# Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'



## Cloo (May 27, 2018)

Yes, massive facepalm. Getting into argument of sorts with fash on Twitter who think that Robinson is a 'renegade freedom fighter' for turning up and filming outside court where Asian men are being tried in a grooming case.

My understanding is that he is arrested for Breach of peace because he has form for potential or actual contempt of court if allowed to continue his bullshit.

The fash and fash apologists (mostly from US) see this as 'the government' 'covering up' the case, whereas presumably it's not really anything to do with the government, and it's not about 'protecting' the men accused but preventing the case getting thrown out on a technicality because the prosecution has been compromised by Robinson's bullshit. Ie, Robinson could get guilty people let off if allowed to film and post up incendiary crap about the case. Am I understanding it correctly?


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## Plumdaff (May 27, 2018)

Yes my understanding is that he could have potentially ruined the cases. It also demonstrates that his motives are about stirring racial hatred and promoting Tommy Robinson rather than any sincere desire to see justice or any thoughts for the victims.


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## Cloo (May 27, 2018)

In fact I think he was given a suspended sentence for contempt of court, hence by attempting to do it again gets automatically arrested, so again, nothing to do with specifics of this case.


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## agricola (May 27, 2018)

Cloo said:


> Yes, massive facepalm. Getting into argument of sorts with fash on Twitter who think that Robinson is a 'renegade freedom fighter' for turning up and filming outside court where Asian men are being tried in a grooming case.
> 
> My understanding is that he is arrested for Breach of peace because he has form for potential or actual contempt of court if allowed to continue his bullshit.
> 
> The fash and fash apologists (mostly from US) see this as 'the government' 'covering up' the case, whereas presumably it's not really anything to do with the government, and it's not about 'protecting' the men accused but preventing the case getting thrown out on a technicality because the prosecution has been compromised by Robinson's bullshit. Ie, Robinson could get guilty people let off if allowed to film and post up incendiary crap about the case. Am I understanding it correctly?



IIRC his previous sentence (for doing something very like this) was suspended, so there may be conditions that he could have breached resulting in him being banged up (indeed if he was just arrested for breach of the peace he'd have been released when the breach was over or when he went before a magistrate (whichever came soonest), so that he's been kept in would suggest they've either activated his original sentence or done him for something else).


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## Zapp Brannigan (May 27, 2018)

Someone seems to have engaged Alex Jones on the case when he was busy enjoying a quiet night at the cinema.  So off he goes, interviewing actual stormtroopers.

It's every bit as amazing as it sounds.

As for Robinson, he hasn't got a leg to stand on.  In his original trial for contempt (I think) he was pretty much told in words of one syllable - turn up at court with a camera again, expect to get carted off.  He did, so he was.


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## ddraig (May 27, 2018)

ask them if they'd rather the suspected groomers and paedos got off because of his meddling!!


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## Athos (May 27, 2018)

He's a twat.

And the right is riddled with nonces (and touts).


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## bemused (May 27, 2018)

Covering up the case by having a trial? That sneaky Government.


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## likesfish (May 27, 2018)

Even sun journolists know the rules 
  Tbf he's in the top 10% of fash finding some actual asian nonces rather than brit first who avoided the whole contempt of court by hassaling random asians in kent .


You cant be done for contempt of court as none of the people you harrassed had anything to do with the court case so we are just doing you for being racist gits instead


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## Cloo (May 27, 2018)

Good explanation here I have tweeted on discussion Zelo Street: Tommy Robinson And Reporting Restrictions


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## Treacle Toes (May 27, 2018)

I've said it elsewhere but will say it here again...oh gawd... 

Tommy Robinson arrested for 'breaching the peace' outside court during grooming trial

Hundreds descend on Whitehall to protest Tommy Robinson's arrest


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## The39thStep (May 27, 2018)

I posted some comments on the EDL thread but here's a summary :
1) he could have asked a court officer if it was ok to film with the court cases still going on
2) he could have taken advice from his solicitor
3) his actions could have had an effect on the proceedings hence lengthening or aborting the victims wait for justice
4) having said that: the doors of his arrest and sentence is in sharp contrast to the deplorable wait the victims have had in this case
5) the subject matter he raises need to be confronted rather than ignored or dismissed on the grounds he's a racist
6) how is it that that he has made the  issue of systematic rape of working class girls a virtual monopoly of his rather than the left ?


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## Treacle Toes (May 27, 2018)

I think TR wanted to get nicked. He hasn't got much going on for him at all. Jayda and Paul are using their criminality to martyr themselves, here comes Tommy.


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## bemused (May 27, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> 4) having said that: the doors of his arrest and sentence is in sharp contrast to the deplorable wait the victims have had in this case
> 5) the subject matter he raises need to be confronted rather than ignored or dismissed on the grounds he's a racist



Two points: he's been arrested, not sentenced. The suspects of this case are on trial, that's as confrontational as you get in the justice system.


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## The39thStep (May 27, 2018)

bemused said:


> Two points: he's been arrested, not sentenced. The suspects of this case are on trial, that's as confrontational as you get in the justice system.


Two  points , if hes not been sentenced then why is he in jail? Yes agreed , I have made the same point on the other thread.


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## Raheem (May 28, 2018)

Is he in jail, rather than police custody?

In any case, if he's been dealt with and sentenced already, that's not really an outrage compared to the pace of the grooming trial. Obviously, that's going to be a complicated case that has to take time to prepare. A breach of the peace, on the other hand, has to be dealt with quickly, otherwise you would end up with people on remand for months on end for blowing a raspberry at a copper.


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## Poi E (May 28, 2018)

He gets millions of views on youtube. If his followers are fascists, then they comprise a good chunk of England.

ETA: the free speech shtick comes from support by libertarian interests who are making their in-roads into Britnat fascism if the support provided for the recent march in London is anything to go by. It's an interesting political tie-up but not surprising.


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## bemused (May 28, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Two  points , if hes not been sentenced then why is he in jail?



The police can detain you for 24 hours.


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## newbie (May 28, 2018)

Both the Standard (linked above) and the Indie claim that 70,000 people have signed a petition calling for him to be released.  I can only find this one, with 405 signatures.  Where are the rest?


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## Fozzie Bear (May 28, 2018)

bemused said:


> The police can detain you for 24 hours.



Initial reports about his sentencing were just after 3pm on Friday.


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## gosub (May 28, 2018)

newbie said:


> Both the Standard (linked above) and the Indie claim that 70,000 people have signed a petition calling for him to be released.  I can only find this one, with 405 signatures.  Where are the rest?


 -well you did ask


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## mx wcfc (May 28, 2018)

gosub said:


> -well you did ask


That is seriously fecking depressing.  The numbers were going up whilst I was staring at it aghast.


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## alex_ (May 28, 2018)

mx wcfc said:


> That is seriously fecking depressing.  The numbers were going up whilst I was staring at it aghast.



It’s going up because the petition says “Tommy Robinson has been arrested and jailed for reporting on Muslim grooming gangs”, and it’s in 5 languages.

Alex


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## taffboy gwyrdd (May 28, 2018)

Cloo said:


> In fact I think he was given a suspended sentence for contempt of court, hence by attempting to do it again gets automatically arrested, so again, nothing to do with specifics of this case.



On top of this he has a string of previous convictions for violence and fraud, which never helps.


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## Geri (May 28, 2018)

My auntie just shared three things defending Tommy Robinson on Facebook. I am so on the verge of unfriending her, but she is family. *sigh*

She isn't a fascist, but she is stupid and xenophobic. 

I unfollowed her instead.


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## Cloo (May 28, 2018)

Because we are in a post-fact era. American Twitter-twats, for example, aren't interested in the ins and outs of the British judicial process, they're just interested in this being 'proof' that 'the government' is 'silencing' Robinson.


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## tim (May 28, 2018)

newbie said:


> Both the Standard (linked above) and the Indie claim that 70,000 people have signed a petition calling for him to be released.  I can only find this one, with 405 signatures.  Where are the rest?


They've  been taken out by the deep state like Shaheed Tommy


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## 19force8 (May 28, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> 2) he could have taken advice from his solicitor


What's to say he didn't? Might not have been the best advice though. Don't discount the possibility of a cunning plan.


Rutita1 said:


> I think TR wanted to get nicked. He hasn't got much going on for him at all. Jayda and Paul are using their criminality to martyr themselves, here comes Tommy.


I think you're right although he might not have expected to be banged up for over six months. His social and other media reach seems greater than J&P.


Poi E said:


> He gets millions of views on youtube. If his followers are fascists, then they comprise a good chunk of England.
> 
> ETA: the free speech shtick comes from support by libertarian interests who are making their in-roads into Britnat fascism if the support provided for the recent march in London is anything to go by. It's an interesting political tie-up but not surprising.


As you say, many of his followers will be from the USA fed by the likes of Alex Jones. Although a lot of what he says does line up with the Sun/Express/Mail readership's views and he's made enough noise lately to reach deep into that demographic.

The "Free Speech"/DFLA march in London the other weekend was noteworthy for how well funded, slick and professional [by UK standards} it was. I suspect this whole performance was timed to boost Saturday's demo in Manchester.


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## newbie (May 28, 2018)

gosub said:


> -well you did ask


oh, ta.  just google being weird then as it found an ignored petition on change.org and not one popular with fools.


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## Treacle Toes (May 28, 2018)

Geri said:


> My auntie just shared three things defending Tommy Robinson on Facebook. I am so on the verge of unfriending her, but she is family. *sigh*
> 
> She isn't a fascist, but she is stupid and xenophobic.
> 
> I unfollowed her instead.



You could just leave something like this lying around...


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## agricola (May 28, 2018)

Cloo said:


> Because we are in a post-fact era. American Twitter-twats, for example, aren't interested in the ins and outs of the British judicial process, they're just interested in this being 'proof' that 'the government' is 'silencing' Robinson.



that and "the UK is dying / dead" meme that has been going on for at least the past twenty years


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## not-bono-ever (May 28, 2018)

like a virus, i see calls on FB for Yaxley to be given asylum in australia- do these FB sharers  understand how the real world works ?


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## andysays (May 28, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> like a virus, i see calls on FB for Yaxley to be given asylum in australia- do these FB sharers  understand how the real world works ?



Yeah, don't they realise transporting convicts from Britain to Australia officially ended in 1868...?


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## agricola (May 28, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> like a virus, i see calls on FB for Yaxley to be given asylum in australia- do these FB sharers  understand how the real world works ?



Perhaps they understand it a little too well, given what uncontrolled immigration in the 18th and 19th centuries did to that country.


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## gosub (May 28, 2018)

pocket fumble


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## belboid (May 28, 2018)

Some people...


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## FridgeMagnet (May 28, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> like a virus, i see calls on FB for Yaxley to be given asylum in australia- do these FB sharers  understand how the real world works ?


I’m sure he’d love Nauru.


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## Geri (May 28, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> You could just leave something like this lying around...





Rutita1 said:


> You could just leave something like this lying around...


 
I had already posted that! Then my stepmum posted the thing she had posted (RIP Britain) and I dare say my other auntie did too. They are a trio of idiots.


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## campanula (May 28, 2018)

Geri said:


> I had already posted that! Then my stepmum posted the thing she had posted (RIP Britain) and I dare say my other auntie did too. They are a trio of idiots.



Depressing though. My sister, all her children, her new husband have also become hateful bigots... our wc northern upbringing has diverged beyond reconciliation - I am unable to speak to them or see them. My children, especially my daughter, tried (much harder than I did) to maintain a dialogue with them but they also fell away at the end. Brick walls.


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## Almor (May 28, 2018)

My uncle just posted this to Facebook, ffs
 courtesy of Geert Wilders and Ben Garrison, UKIP for the win!
Idiot


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## BristolEcho (May 28, 2018)

Tried to have a debate with someone over this and his final sentence was : "We'll have to agree to disagree" 

Basically he didn't know what he was talking about.


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## Manter (May 28, 2018)

Poi E said:


> He gets millions of views on youtube. If his followers are fascists, then they comprise a good chunk of England.
> 
> ETA: the free speech shtick comes from support by libertarian interests who are making their in-roads into Britnat fascism if the support provided for the recent march in London is anything to go by. It's an interesting political tie-up but not surprising.


They don't get to not be fascists just because there are a lot of them


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## DotCommunist (May 28, 2018)

Almor said:


> My uncle just posted this to Facebook, ffs
> View attachment 136616 courtesy of Geert Wilders and Ben Garrison, UKIP for the win!
> Idiot


look at the skull on top of the prison.


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## Almor (May 28, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> look at the skull on top of the prison.


Yeah, I pointed that out, the amount of shit he posts about patriotism, UKIP, and that, and he's shared a cartoon with a skull on top of the union flag, clown

I do like how sad Tommy looks though
:-/


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## Athos (May 28, 2018)

Manter said:


> They don't get to not be fascists just because there are a lot of them



Why do you think they're fascists?


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## Manter (May 28, 2018)

Athos said:


> Why do you think they're fascists?


Did I say they were? Or just point out a logical fallacy?


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## Orang Utan (May 28, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> look at the skull on top of the prison.


What's the significance of it?


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## Athos (May 28, 2018)

Manter said:


> Did I say they were? Or just point out a logical fallacy?



You didn't say it, explicitly; but that seemed to be the implication.


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## DotCommunist (May 28, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> What's the significance of it?


that I know of, none. except the obvious symbol of death etc.


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## Combustible (May 29, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> that I know of, none. except the obvious symbol of death etc.


His supporters are claiming that a few months in prison will be a death sentence because "muslim gangs" have apparently said they will kill him.


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## Poi E (May 29, 2018)

Hopefully he'll find love in prison, not hate.


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## existentialist (May 29, 2018)

Combustible said:


> His supporters are claiming that a few months in prison will be a death sentence because "muslim gangs" have apparently said they will kill him.


That would be a terrible thing, and something our excellently staffed and well resourced prison system should be adequately equipped to prevent against


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

Jail has proved its worth in PR for the dedicated and whatever I think of this turd, he is dedicated


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## Pickman's model (May 29, 2018)

Almor said:


> Yeah, I pointed that out, the amount of shit he posts about patriotism, UKIP, and that, and he's shared a cartoon with a skull on top of the union flag, clown
> 
> I do like how sad Tommy looks though
> :-/







tommy robinson recently


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

Sadness


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## krtek a houby (May 29, 2018)

agricola said:


> that and "the UK is dying / dead" meme that has been going on for at least the past twenty years



Oh defo. I read it all the time - esp after a terrorist attack. The UK has been defeated/surrendered, Europe is failed etc. And lots of adoration for the Britain First crew, initially. Katie Hopkins seems to be a fave, as well.


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

It’s the eternal question - why do people turn to intolerant authoritarian figures when it is invariably against their interests to do so. Reich would say not enough sex I suppose


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## Pickman's model (May 29, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> It’s the eternal question - why do people turn to intolerant authoritarian figures when it is invariably against their interests to do so. Reich would say not enough sex I suppose


it all starts with the first authority figures in one's life i suppose. they fuck you up your mum and dad...


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## gentlegreen (May 29, 2018)

Bloody hell, I hadn't realised Roseanne Barr had gone so Trump-bonkers. I will probably give the new series a miss.
It's amazing how many 'mericans I encounter online - even ones whose views overlap somewhat with my own who are certain that we are living under "Sharia law" over here (whatever they think they mean by that).

EDIT :-



‘Roseanne’ Blasts Ignorance Toward Muslim Immigrants: Is She Just Trolling Us Now?


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## krtek a houby (May 29, 2018)

gentlegreen said:


> Bloody hell, I hadn't realised Roseanne Barr had gone so Trump-bonkers. I will probably give the new series a miss.
> It's amazing how many 'mericans I encounter online - even ones whose views overlap somewhat with my own who are certain that we are living under "Sharia law" over here (whatever they think they mean by that).



Yep, no-go areas, rampant socialism, Muslim overlords, genocide etc etc. Very depressing and they will not listen to people who live in or know the UK.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (May 29, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> It’s the eternal question - why do people turn to intolerant authoritarian figures when it is invariably against their interests to do so. Reich would say not enough sex I suppose



This is a bit "pop" but I heard about a book written by a German woman in the early - mid 30s. She said that it was rare for happy people to get fully on side with the nazis. 

Pop as it is, it might also get to the roots of the modern gammon phenomena.


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## Pickman's model (May 29, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> It’s the eternal question - why do people turn to intolerant authoritarian figures when it is invariably against their interests to do so. Reich would say not enough sex I suppose


have some brinton The Irrational in Politics


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## taffboy gwyrdd (May 29, 2018)

If / when there are guilty verdicts the case will be all over the media. What will the droolers say about "cover up" then?

Obviously, expecting them to understand how reporting restrictions have worked in many cases for many years is far too much a stretch. These are people who tended not to know that polling booths use pencils or the Irish border issue could be problematic in Brexit, so digesting what the lead prosecutor in the Rotherham case and this one has to say is way beyond. "experts" innit. Celebration of stupidity and distrust of people who know things are cornerstones of tyranny. A lot of people love this stuff. And yes, there is a massive crossover now with the US far right and conservatism generally.

Where we go from here is hard to say. The "left" has a habit of blaming ourselves for everything, the right rarely bothers with such self analysis and manages to succeed. 

Their numbers are worrying but not overwhelming. Fascism tends to come about as a minority getting co operation or some form of assent from conservatives who think they can tame them. But add centerists, liberals, progressives and the left together - we probably have more numbers. Certainly if you add neutrals. But there seems to be a lot of factionalism among those of generally good will.


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## agricola (May 29, 2018)

Some of the reporting restrictions have been lifted.

He pled guilty to contempt of court, and got 13 months.

edit:  also if anyone interested in the concept of hubris wants to understand how it was that the Liverpool goalkeeper committed two unprecedented mistakes in that Champions Leaue final, check out the first fifteen seconds of the accompanying video


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## editor (May 29, 2018)

Real name 'Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.'  LOL.


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## marty21 (May 29, 2018)

editor said:


> Real name 'Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.'  LOL.


he has had a few names hasn't he ?


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## marty21 (May 29, 2018)

agricola said:


> Some of the reporting restrictions have been lifted.
> 
> He pled guilty to contempt of court, and got 13 months.
> 
> edit:  also if anyone interested in the concept of hubris wants to understand how it was that the Liverpool goalkeeper committed two unprecedented mistakes in that Champions Leaue final, check out the first fifteen seconds of the accompanying video


I'm sure all over the internet there are people claiming this is a death sentence


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## Pickman's model (May 29, 2018)

editor said:


> Real name 'Stephen Yaxley-Lennon.'  LOL.


everyone's known that for years - not sure how you've missed it before - first mentioned on urban by audiotech here 
EDL in Tower Hamlets on 20/06


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## gentlegreen (May 29, 2018)

agricola said:


> Some of the reporting restrictions have been lifted.
> 
> He pled guilty to contempt of court, and got 13 months.


If only there was some embarassing community service he could do that would remove the "martyr" cache ...


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## Treacle Toes (May 29, 2018)

marty21 said:


> he has had a few names hasn't he ?



*Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon* (born 27 November 1982[3]), known by the pseudonym *Tommy Robinson*, and previously by *Andrew McMaster* and *Paul Harris*,[4]


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## Pickman's model (May 29, 2018)

marty21 said:


> I'm sure all over the internet there are people claiming this is a death sentence


hope springs eternal


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## editor (May 29, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> everyone's known that for years - not sure how you've missed it before - first mentioned on urban by audiotech here View attachment 136659
> EDL in Tower Hamlets on 20/06


I try to not pay much attention to the fucking tosspot, that's why.


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## cupid_stunt (May 29, 2018)

13 months, how unlucky.


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## gentlegreen (May 29, 2018)

marty21 said:


> I'm sure all over the internet there are people claiming this is a death sentence


One of the yanks on Paltalk yesterday was going on about the idiot who stuck bacon on the door handle of a mosque near me and died in prison - inquest yet to be held, but not seen as suspicious - and yes, they were suggesting that Robinson would be the target of a Muslamic Raygun or somesuch ...

EDIT :-

Bacon mosque attacker died in prison after drug overdose


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## taffboy gwyrdd (May 29, 2018)

Lennon has admitted to endangering a trial of alleged nonces. 

His drooling fans are supporting a bloke whose actions could see nonces go free while they frequently accuse his supporters of being "paedos" etc.

They ceaselessly muddy the waters in this way to the aid of actual nonces. Baseless accusations technically constitute a fantasy about child abuse.

Doubtless, some of them would rather nonces get off if it would give them something else to rant about.

Victims are just pawns to be exploited once more. Detail, facts and analysis at anything parallel to Key Stage 2 education or above are for commies.


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## cupid_stunt (May 29, 2018)

EDL founder Tommy Robinson jailed for 13 months under contempt of court laws


> Robinson streamed an hour-long Facebook Live outside the courthouse that was watched more than 250,000 times.
> 
> The stream included comments that had the potential to cause the collapse of a long-running trial, costing the taxpayer hundreds of thousands of pounds.



What a bloody tool.


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## Jeff Robinson (May 29, 2018)

Useful legal analysis of TR's arrest, trial and imprisonment here:

What on earth happened to poor Tommy Robinson? 10 Things You Should Know.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (May 29, 2018)

On his umpteenth spell at Ms Windsor pleasure, will he finally pen a book about his struggle?


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## Treacle Toes (May 29, 2018)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> On his umpteenth spell at Ms Windsor pleasure, will he finally pen a book about his struggle?



_Tommy - Banged Up_


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## marty21 (May 29, 2018)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> On his umpteenth spell at Ms Windsor pleasure, will he finally pen a book about his struggle?


this latest shenanigans is great publicity for his book


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## Teaboy (May 29, 2018)

I find it a bit odd tbh.  After Canterbury he must have known it was highly likely he'd get banged up.  I know his line of work means he has to try and constantly get attention but this seems a bit extreme.  Does he enjoy chokey or is it more simply that there's nothing like a spell in prison to get the donations rolling in?


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

"My Scuffle" by Tommy Robinson


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## Voley (May 29, 2018)

Pleasingly, the radio news report I heard about this earlier (BBC) made specific reference to him violating the terms of his current suspended sentence and stressed that he'd been doing the same thing again. Later report mentioned contempt of court too.

Bit of a stretch to call that a freedom of speech issue tbh.


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> I find it a bit odd tbh.  After Canterbury he must have known it was highly likely he'd get banged up.  I know his line of work means he has to try and constantly get attention but this seems a bit extreme.  Does he enjoy chokey or is it more simply that there's nothing like a spell in prison to get the donations rolling in?


 
It doesnt matter to him - he is hardly going to get a job in the FO fast stream or train to be a lawyer- its a lucrative venture - Chokey is just a sorta business trip for him


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

"the long walk to Luton" by Tommy Robinson


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## krtek a houby (May 29, 2018)

_De Profascist_ by Wild Tommy Robinson


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

_On day in the life of Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon_ ; by tommy robinson (autobiographical in the 3rd person style)


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

"_the ballard of Hull gaol_" by tommy robinson


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

and that's enough from me


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## krtek a houby (May 29, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> and that's enough from me



And from Tommy, one hopes


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## agricola (May 29, 2018)

Surely a Trump-supporting owner of a sunbed shop who keeps getting imprisoned unjustly by the Man would come up with _"Orange is the new Black"._


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## editor (May 29, 2018)




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## phillm (May 29, 2018)

*LET RELF ROT !*


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

I should not be one to cast the first stone, but that's quite a decent list there


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## danny la rouge (May 29, 2018)

I keep reading this as "fast-thinking Tommy Robinson", and thinking "must be a different Tommy Robinson".


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 29, 2018)

So a cunt has been a cunt and cunts are acting like cunts over it.


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## Voley (May 29, 2018)

Good summary of why he's been sent down and why there were reporting restrictions here:

Why Tommy Robinson was jailed - and why we couldn't report it until now


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## Ax^ (May 29, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So a cunt has been a cunt and cunts are acting like cunts over it.



aye but it just a shame there is so many of them to openly rally around the cunts view point

why facebook is shite really


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## keybored (May 29, 2018)

belboid said:


> Some people...
> 
> View attachment 136587


Still, every cloud...


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## gosub (May 29, 2018)

keybored said:


> Still, every cloud...




no. that was a different foot in her mouth ‘Roseanne’ canceled after star’s racist tweet


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## keybored (May 29, 2018)

gosub said:


> no. that was a different foot in her mouth ‘Roseanne’ canceled after star’s racist tweet


I know, but if she's really leaving Twitter it's all good.


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## bemused (May 29, 2018)

The line now is that he only pleaded guilty because his legal aid solicitor stitched him up.


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## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2018)

but but but there is an appeal out there for his legal fees ....


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## Magnus McGinty (May 29, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> *Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon* (born 27 November 1982[3]), known by the pseudonym *Tommy Robinson*, and previously by *Andrew McMaster* and *Paul Harris*,[4]



Didn’t a Paul Harris post here once? Although about photography iirc.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 29, 2018)

Had a London taxi driver start talking to me about this in terms strongly redolent of Alex Jones line.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2018)

bemused said:


> The line now is that he only pleaded guilty because his legal aid solicitor stitched him up.


Yeh cos he's unfamiliar with the criminal justice system


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 29, 2018)

Shame he didn’t get better advice then from all those donations coming in for that very reason.


----------



## gawkrodger (May 29, 2018)

I'm dissapointed at the relative lack of memes doing the rounds about this


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 29, 2018)

How many days til he takes his first beating?


----------



## bemused (May 29, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> How many days til he takes his first beating?



Apparently, this is also a plot by the UK Government to have him killed inside the jail, given the Tories track record in getting things right the first time I assume that explains why the original sentence was suspended.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 29, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Didn’t a Paul Harris post here once? Although about photography iirc.


that's paulhackett - i doubt he's fash!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 29, 2018)

bemused said:


> Apparently, this is also a plot by the UK Government to have him killed inside the jail, given the Tories track record in getting things right the first time I assume that explains why the original sentence was suspended.



Really? Fuckin' Tories! I'd rather he had his throat slit inside by Islamist extremists!


----------



## Cloo (May 29, 2018)

Entertaining watching some British law professional tweeters pwning thick Americans who are either making up 'legalise' or using US concepts that do no exist in England (eg 'public defender', 'contest') in relation to Robinson. Great blog entry from prominent legal bloggers: What on earth happened to poor Tommy Robinson? 10 Things You Should Know.


----------



## The39thStep (May 29, 2018)

bemused said:


> The line now is that he only pleaded guilty because his legal aid solicitor stitched him up.


He had a barrister , it's a Crown Court Case .


----------



## The39thStep (May 29, 2018)

phillm said:


> *LET RELF ROT !*


That takes me back. Thinking about it would one of the far right do this now for a publicity stunt ?


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 29, 2018)

Cloo said:


> Entertaining watching some British law professional tweeters pwning thick Americans who are either making up 'legalise' or using US concepts that do no exist in England (eg 'public defender', 'contest') in relation to Robinson. Great blog entry from prominent legal bloggers: What on earth happened to poor Tommy Robinson? 10 Things You Should Know.



Killer quote - 





> "As we know now, he went and committed a contempt of court by reporting on court proceedings. He did so in a way that expressed his “views” on the guilt or otherwise of the defendants, creating a substantial risk of serious prejudice to the proceedings by jurors seeing or becoming aware of his ill-informed ramblings. This could have led to an application by the defence advocates to discharge the jury and start afresh, potentially meaning vulnerable complainants having to go through the trauma of a trial all over again, or even an application to “stay” (bring to an end) the proceedings altogether.
> 
> Importantly, Yaxley-Lennon admitted that he was in contempt of court.
> 
> And he was committed to prison for 10 months, with the suspended sentence of 3 months activated and directed to run consecutively. Exactly as he’d been warned."



Basically his passion for ensuring that nonces are brought to justice   would seem to play second fiddle to his passion  for promoting his own shitty, self serving, racist agenda. What a hero.


----------



## keybored (May 29, 2018)

editor said:


> View attachment 136677


Sorry, just seems like badly-imagined "HAHA FICK PPL" trope.


----------



## Sparkle Motion (May 29, 2018)

Couldn't care less what happens to Robinson. But could we stop referring to the rape of children as "grooming"?


----------



## ddraig (May 29, 2018)

Sparkle Motion said:


> Couldn't care less what happens to Robinson. But could we stop referring to the rape of children as "grooming"?


2 things
Initially groomed then raped


----------



## Sparkle Motion (May 29, 2018)

Cloo said:


> Yes, massive facepalm. Getting into argument of sorts with fash on Twitter who think that Robinson is a 'renegade freedom fighter' for turning up and filming outside court where Asian men are being tried in a grooming case.



Don't want to be pedantic, but are these "Asian" (?) men only charged with grooming?


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 29, 2018)

Sparkle Motion said:


> Don't want to be pedantic, but are these "Asian" (?) men only charged with grooming?




Which ones?


----------



## bemused (May 30, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> He had a barrister , it's a Crown Court Case .



I'm just quoting the line. If you start streaming partipants in a trial with reporting restrictions, after you've been in front of a judge telling you to stop doing it you get what you deserve.


----------



## existentialist (May 30, 2018)

Sparkle Motion said:


> Don't want to be pedantic, but are these "Asian" (?) men only charged with grooming?


No. Some get charged with rape. I imagine it depends on the evidence - rape can be notoriously hard to get a conviction on, grooming presumably less so.


----------



## phillm (May 30, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> That takes me back. Thinking about it would one of the far right do this now for a publicity stunt ?



Must have been 1979 or thereabouts he offered only to sell his house to a white man I seem to remember and went to prison. The only reason I remember it is there is a Relf Road in Peckham and I think of the phrase every time I go down there. 

Robert Relf - Wikipedia


----------



## rhod (May 30, 2018)




----------



## Pickman's model (May 30, 2018)

rhod said:


> View attachment 136729


the penguin better dressed and with better politics than syl


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 30, 2018)

bemused said:


> The line now is that he only pleaded guilty because his legal aid solicitor stitched him up.


I'm not sure how he could have pleaded any other way, he was live streaming himself doing it. 
Pretty open and shut.


----------



## Poi E (May 30, 2018)

He'll be well looked after inside, have no fear.


----------



## crossthebreeze (May 30, 2018)

Wish it was just EDL types, been arguing in facebook groups with people who really should know better.  People have been coming out with the "free speech even for people we vehemently disagree with" line not getting that its about stopping him fucking up a court case (and the consequences to victims if he did that), a load of horseshit about the media restrictions being part of a establishment coverup to "protect powerful nonces" (based on lies that are being circulated about who's up in court), and lots of other rubbish.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 30, 2018)

Poi E said:


> He'll be well looked after inside, have no fear.


ho ho


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 30, 2018)

existentialist said:


> No. Some get charged with rape. I imagine it depends on the evidence - rape can be notoriously hard to get a conviction on, grooming presumably less so.



A simple google reveals which people are attending Leeds Crown Court and what stage the proceedings are at. This is easily cross referenced with articles in the press that detail what the defendants are charged with. Mr I-don't-want-to-be-a-pedant was being just that.


----------



## hot air baboon (May 30, 2018)

I see that petition is now over half-a-million strong   - that's bigger than Woodstock maaan...( give or take a few bots & sock accounts no doubt

Looking at the comments he certainly seems to be acting as a figurehead for a lot of generalised residual anger over the long years of official neglect & blind-eye-turning over the "grooming" stuff which is now melding into the feeling that the police are far more eager to swoop down & arrest you for "thought-crime" & making a derogatory tweet than raping kids - which in itself is being stoked from the right-o-sphere after having alot of their channels shut down recently by the internet platforms themselves


----------



## Cloo (May 30, 2018)

Someone on Twitter was wondering whether some of this swell of apparent online support is coming from Russia. What fun and games!


----------



## rhod (May 30, 2018)

I know that this whole episode has been manna from heaven for the RW rent-a-gobs on Youtube.

I'm sure Yaxley will make a mint when he gets out from TV appearances, book tours (you know the books are coming), "Official #FreeTommy" merchandise etc. There are so many willing dupes out there.


----------



## elbows (May 30, 2018)

The BBC Home Affairs correspondent couldnt resist....



> This is not some new form of censorship directed at Robinson. These are rules that apply to us all, equally. If he is unsure about that, he's now got time on his hands to read a copy of Essential Law for Journalists.



Ex-EDL chief Robinson jailed for contempt


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 30, 2018)

crossthebreeze said:


> Wish it was just EDL types, been arguing in facebook groups with people who really should know better.  People have been coming out with the "free speech even for people we vehemently disagree with" line not getting that its about stopping him fucking up a court case (and the consequences to victims if he did that), a load of horseshit about the media restrictions being part of a establishment coverup to "protect powerful nonces" (based on lies that are being circulated about who's up in court), and lots of other rubbish.



I've even seen darling of the left Lisa Mackenzie saying Robinson and friends have a point about grooming gangs and that the London liberal elite don't understand (white) working class anger about them. 

Apparently if you're not actively trying to burn down mosques then you don't care about protecting children.


----------



## 8ball (May 30, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've even seen darling of the left Lisa Mackenzie saying Robinson and friends have a point about grooming gangs and that the London liberal elite don't understand (white) working class anger about them.
> 
> Apparently if you're not actively trying to burn down mosques then you don't care about protecting children.



Nice non sequitur.


----------



## gosub (May 30, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've even seen darling of the left Lisa Mackenzie saying Robinson and friends have a point about grooming gangs and that the London liberal elite don't understand (white) working class anger about them.
> 
> Apparently if you're not actively trying to burn down mosques then you don't care about protecting children.



there clearly was an aspect of that prior to the Bradford arrests...but its misplaced now (I think)...
I'm quite glad we stepped back from the celebrity witchhunt methodology of the last few years off the back of Yewtree and Saville , as I'd rather have safe convictions and discretion for the victims than where we were headed with trial by media (Mr Yaxley clearly has different opinion.) 
What I think has fallen through the cracks is serious investigation of these empowered over vulnerable kids that facilitated these things...maybe the internet has competely changed the modus operandi of these sick fucks and maybe we are in a golden age where nobody since Cyril Smith has been drawn to power for the turn of power over people it gives them...But I doubt it.  I'd like a wider net than washed up celebrities and Asian immigrants...


----------



## bemused (May 30, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've even seen darling of the left Lisa Mackenzie saying Robinson and friends have a point about grooming gangs and that the London liberal elite don't understand (white) working class anger about them.



Numerous MPs like Lucy Allen bring this up on a regular basis, the police now have special units to look into this, there was an award winning BBC dramatisation of three Rochdale victims experiences, news organisations report that disproportionate number of Pakistani men involved in these crimes, etc. I'm sure if these people are convicted all news outlets will cover it.

Robinson's arrest that nothing to do with the crime he was reporting or the race of the accused - it was that his actions could put the result of that case at risk. For someone who cliams to champion the victims of these crimes it seem perverse to risk their justice by undermining the trial for facebook likes.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 30, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've even seen darling of the left Lisa Mackenzie saying Robinson and friends have a point about grooming gangs and that the London liberal elite don't understand (white) working class anger about them.
> 
> Apparently if you're not actively trying to burn down mosques then you don't care about protecting children.


have you? where?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 30, 2018)




----------



## Mrdw77 (May 30, 2018)

It’s funny. I last posted on this site about 15 to 20 years ago (can’t remember my old login). I would have been described as being on the liberal left then, I haven’t changed that much since then but I guess now I’d be called right wing. I think the politically correct left have become the new religious right. The left have become anti free speech and seek to control others. They don’t agree to disagree anymore. No longer will they say “I don’t agree with what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it”. Now they want people jailed for words that they say and use Orwellian double speak claiming that prison as a consequence of speech is still free speech. They now sneer at, and seem to despise, the working classes ever since they (rightly in my opinion) voted for Brexit. And they’re largely status quo establishment, at least on social issues anyway. They are no longer anti religion either like they used to be as I remember. It was Tommy’s arrest that caused me to come back and look at the site I once loved, long ago as a student activist. Disappointed doesn’t come close.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 30, 2018)

Mrdw77 said:


> It’s funny. I last posted on this site about 15 to 20 years ago (can’t remember my old login). I would have been described as being on the liberal left then, I haven’t changed that much since then but I guess now I’d be called right wing. I think the politically correct left have become the new religious right. The left have become anti free speech and seek to control others. They don’t agree to disagree anymore. No longer will they say “I don’t agree with what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it”. Now they want people jailed for words that they say and use Orwellian double speak claiming that prison as a consequence of speech is still free speech. They now sneer at, and seem to despise, the working classes ever since they (rightly in my opinion) voted for Brexit. And they’re largely status quo establishment, at least on social issues anyway. They are no longer anti religion either like they used to be as I remember. It was Tommy’s arrest that caused me to come back and look at the site I once loved, long ago as a student activist. Disappointed doesn’t come close.



Hi again. You still in the forces?


----------



## butchersapron (May 30, 2018)

Mrdw77 said:


> It’s funny. I last posted on this site about 15 to 20 years ago (can’t remember my old login). I would have been described as being on the liberal left then, I haven’t changed that much since then but I guess now I’d be called right wing. I think the politically correct left have become the new religious right. The left have become anti free speech and seek to control others. They don’t agree to disagree anymore. No longer will they say “I don’t agree with what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it”. Now they want people jailed for words that they say and use Orwellian double speak claiming that prison as a consequence of speech is still free speech. They now sneer at, and seem to despise, the working classes ever since they (rightly in my opinion) voted for Brexit. And they’re largely status quo establishment, at least on social issues anyway. They are no longer anti religion either like they used to be as I remember. It was Tommy’s arrest that caused me to come back and look at the site I once loved, long ago as a student activist. Disappointed doesn’t come close.


It was :
sonicdancer
sortedforpillz


----------



## Jon-of-arc (May 30, 2018)

Mrdw77 said:


> It’s funny. I last posted on this site about 15 to 20 years ago (can’t remember my old login). I would have been described as being on the liberal left then, I haven’t changed that much since then but I guess now I’d be called right wing. I think the politically correct left have become the new religious right. The left have become anti free speech and seek to control others. They don’t agree to disagree anymore. No longer will they say “I don’t agree with what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it”. Now they want people jailed for words that they say and use Orwellian double speak claiming that prison as a consequence of speech is still free speech. They now sneer at, and seem to despise, the working classes ever since they (rightly in my opinion) voted for Brexit. And they’re largely status quo establishment, at least on social issues anyway. They are no longer anti religion either like they used to be as I remember. It was Tommy’s arrest that caused me to come back and look at the site I once loved, long ago as a student activist. Disappointed doesn’t come close.



I won't respond to any of your points, as you didn't make any.

But, what do you think of TR/SYL putting grooming/nonce court cases at risk of being thrown out and letting (alleged) pedos go free?


----------



## Cloo (May 30, 2018)

A thing a lot of the people on the Right (especially the US ones) deliberately fail to grasp, I think, is that no 'liberal' thinks what happened with the avoidance of dealing with the grooming in Rochdale was OK. I follow, painful as it is, various RW types on Twitter, and it's common to see memes the portray 'liberals' as condoning misogyny, violence etc if it's conducted by people supposedly in the name of their culture or religion and being 'Oh, I'm so sorry, I respect your right to do that', so I suspect a lot of them think that liberals want Rochdale covered up and condoned it not being dealt with.


----------



## JimW (May 30, 2018)

Is this speedy banning a comedy comment on the "free speech" whining?


----------



## tim (May 30, 2018)

Poi E said:


> He'll be well looked after inside, have no fear.


He needs to be shamed into taking full advantage of his predicament: hunger strike, dirty protest, standing in the East Lewisham by-election: a tenth-rate Bobby Sands taking on a tenth-rate Thatcher. An absurd political Soapless opera to amuse us over the Summer


----------



## krtek a houby (May 31, 2018)

Mrdw77 said:


> It’s funny. I last posted on this site about 15 to 20 years ago (can’t remember my old login). I would have been described as being on the liberal left then, I haven’t changed that much since then but I guess now I’d be called right wing. I think the politically correct left have become the new religious right. The left have become anti free speech and seek to control others. They don’t agree to disagree anymore. No longer will they say “I don’t agree with what you say but I’ll defend your right to say it”. Now they want people jailed for words that they say and use Orwellian double speak claiming that prison as a consequence of speech is still free speech. They now sneer at, and seem to despise, the working classes ever since they (rightly in my opinion) voted for Brexit. And they’re largely status quo establishment, at least on social issues anyway. They are no longer anti religion either like they used to be as I remember. It was Tommy’s arrest that caused me to come back and look at the site I once loved, long ago as a student activist. Disappointed doesn’t come close.



When urbanites go bad


----------



## ska invita (May 31, 2018)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


>



Missed opportunity to do the Tommy Robinson Stephen Yaxley-Lennon bit.
 "Tommy"  what a cunt


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 31, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Missed opportunity to do the Tommy Robinson Stephen Yaxley-Lennon bit.
> "Tommy"  what a cunt



More aliases than a spy.


----------



## ska invita (May 31, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> More aliases than a spy.


tommy of course affectionate name for a british solider of yore...i wonder if it that was conscious...i woudlnt be surprised


----------



## Athos (May 31, 2018)

He's a prick.  And I bet you a penny to a pound of shit in the only person on these boards who's called him a cunt to his face on more than one occasion.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 31, 2018)

ska invita said:


> tommy of course affectionate name for a british solider of yore...i wonder if it that was conscious...i woudlnt be surprised



Maybe...but what about Andrew McMaster and Paul Harris?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2018)

Just realised he's not the guy from Blackadder


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 31, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> Just realised he's not the guy from Blackadder



 or timeteam


----------



## krtek a houby (May 31, 2018)

Or singer, activist and 6 music DJ


----------



## YouSir (May 31, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Or singer, activist and 6 music DJ



Baldrick's on 6 Music?


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> have you? where?



Comments on a mate's fb.


----------



## 19force8 (May 31, 2018)

Having trouble with this thread title - when I glance at it I see:

"Fast thinking Tommy Robinson..."


----------



## The39thStep (May 31, 2018)

ska invita said:


> tommy of course affectionate name for a british solider of yore...i wonder if it that was conscious...i woudlnt be surprised


Didn't he just take the name from  the leader of Lutons hooligan firm the MiGs?


----------



## likesfish (May 31, 2018)

there's a change.org petition to keep him in jail
 blokes a halfwit he got explained what he'd done wrong when he got the suspended jail sentence but did it again


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Comments on a mate's fb.


yeh. do you have a screenshot so we can see precisely what she said? this seems a novel twist on mopmos


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2018)

ska invita said:


> tommy of course affectionate name for a british solider of yore...i wonder if it that was conscious...i woudlnt be surprised


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 31, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Didn't he just take the name from  the leader of Lutons hooligan firm the MiGs?



Yes, although that might also have been a pseudonym.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yes, although that might also have been a pseudonym.


might be a right wing version of karen eliot


----------



## Sprocket. (May 31, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


>




Tom Robinson achieved far more as an activist than Tommy ever will.


----------



## souljacker (May 31, 2018)

Athos said:


> He's a prick.  And I bet you a penny to a pound of shit in the only person on these boards who's called him a cunt to his face on more than one occasion.



Yes, you are by far the hardest person on this bit of the internet. Well done.


----------



## mystic pyjamas (May 31, 2018)

I can beat, I once stuck two fingers up to him.


----------



## Athos (May 31, 2018)

souljacker said:


> Yes, you are by far the hardest person on this bit of the internet. Well done.



Jesus, I had no memory of posting that until you quoted it!  

Fair to say I'd had a few beers.

Didn't cover mysef with glory, there.


----------



## JimW (May 31, 2018)

"We've all had a drink."


----------



## dessiato (May 31, 2018)

A (Portuguese) friend of mine in Portugal sent me a link to sign the petition to free TR. He thinks its about free speech. My friend has had his error pointed out to him. There's been no reply to my comments.

What is shocking about this is that there are people, outside the UK, supporting this man. I can only wonder why they support him.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 31, 2018)

souljacker said:


> Yes, you are by far the hardest person on this bit of the internet. Well done.



It was hilarious reading that last night.

I was mostly impressed with how nobody picked up the dick measuring stick in response.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 31, 2018)

mystic pyjamas said:


> I can beat, I once stuck two fingers up to him.



I got threatened in person by the BNP leader after Griffin but I can’t remember his name. Do I win a prize?


----------



## LDC (May 31, 2018)

Just watched a Fox News interview with Katie Hopkins saying we're in dark times and the UK is on a knife edge over TR's arrest. FFS.


----------



## existentialist (May 31, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Just watched a Fox News interview with Katie Hopkins saying we're in dark times and the UK is on a knife edge over TR's arrest. FFS.


Is she delusional, or just a troublemaker? Tough call...


----------



## Gromit (May 31, 2018)

I hate how all this has been blurred so that the true warning of what this idiot did is lost. 

A group of paedos are undergoing trial. 
If they are guilty (I don't have all the evidence, I'm not one of the jurors) you want them to be banged up fairly for two reasons. 

1. Everyone should have a fair trial because one day it could be you in court unfairly accused of something. 
2. If they are guilty you don't want their lawyers to be able to get them off on appeal because said lawyer is able to prove they didn't get a fair trial. 

So Tommy wades and tries to help the paedos by giving their lawyers just such grounds for appeal. How much did the paedos pay you to help them out Tommy?

p.s. No one is stopping free speech. They were merely delaying it. He and the press and anyone whosoever can say anything the fuck they like once all the trials are over. 
Are we such a society of instant gratification that we can't hold on until such a time as it's safe to do so without hindering the justice system?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 31, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> It was hilarious reading that last night.
> 
> I was mostly impressed with how nobody picked up the dick measuring stick in response.



Out of respect that he’d pulled away from the internet to confront fascists? Oh yeah, ha ha, how daft.


----------



## gosub (May 31, 2018)

existentialist said:


> Is she delusional, or just a troublemaker? Tough call...



looking at the evidence :






Tough call indeed


----------



## ddraig (May 31, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Out of respect that he’d pulled away from the internet to confront fascists? Oh yeah, ha ha, how daft.


Did you carry his mum's groceries too?


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 31, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Out of respect that he’d pulled away from the internet to confront fascists? Oh yeah, ha ha, how daft.



I do love a good toast _boast._..reminded me of this...


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 31, 2018)

I thought he was on ignore anyway?


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 31, 2018)




----------



## ska invita (May 31, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Didn't he just take the name from  the leader of Lutons hooligan firm the MiGs?


Luton hooligans eh?... Quintessential British heritage warm glow guaranteed


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


>


spotted that on the twitterbox. Was so busy looking at the likeness of sadiq K that I missed the crescent and star moon. Same 'artist' as the 'dragged away to jail' one by the look of it.


----------



## Almor (May 31, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


>


 
That's even weirder than the one I put on the annoying Facebook thread


----------



## The39thStep (May 31, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Luton hooligans eh?... Quintessential British heritage warm glow guaranteed


We never ran


----------



## Voley (May 31, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


>


----------



## Almor (May 31, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> spotted that on the twitterbox. Was so busy looking at the likeness of sadiq K that I missed the crescent and star moon. Same 'artist' as the 'dragged away to jail' one by the look of it.


 
I missed that too, was trying to see what the bottle the little girl's holding is


----------



## The39thStep (May 31, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> spotted that on the twitterbox. Was so busy looking at the likeness of sadiq K that I missed the crescent and star moon. Same 'artist' as the 'dragged away to jail' one by the look of it.


Child with doll


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 31, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


>



That has cracked me up, it's so bloody mad.


----------



## Treacle Toes (May 31, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> That has cracked me up, it's so bloody mad.



It is...but fucking scary too in it's conspiracy symbolism. People actually believe this shit?


----------



## ska invita (May 31, 2018)

Finding it hard to laugh myself... Not fringe lunacy enough by half


----------



## Athos (May 31, 2018)

Ironically, the artist has failed to get the flag right.


----------



## gosub (May 31, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


>



Its this sort of thing that gives politics a bad name.  Sadiq should know better than to make campaign promises he cant keep


----------



## The39thStep (May 31, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> It is...but fucking scary too in it's conspiracy symbolism. People actually believe this shit?


Yup. In Liza McKenzies book on the lives on a Nottingham estate she makes describes how many of those disengaged from established political parties and those with high levels of untrust of government, councils etc used social media for their news and were more likely to hold  a strong belief in conspracy theories and rumour.


----------



## elbows (May 31, 2018)

Athos said:


> Ironically, the artist has failed to get the flag right.



At least the plod holding the flag have had their ready brek. And they might be clones, seeing as they are all the same height.

Bah, I've just remembered that I was left very confused in a trans thread earlier this year by the number of people who didnt seem to have a clue what I was on about when mentioning contempt of court, despite the number of times the issue has come up in regards to active court cases in the past.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 31, 2018)

Athos said:


> Ironically, the artist has failed to get the flag right.



Sadiq's using a Yankee style noose too, not the traditional rope through a brass-eyelet, another bit of English culture gone 


Change.org - hang Tommy from a British noose!!!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


>



is this (circled) supposed to suggest tr's a paedo who's groomed the unfortunate child?


----------



## elbows (May 31, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> is this (circled) supposed to suggest tr's a paedo who's groomed the unfortunate child?



I'm afraid its even more sinister than that - a gang of paedos have disguised themselves as tower bridge.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 31, 2018)

the Islamic moon is a nice touch


----------



## Poi E (May 31, 2018)

Contempt of court probably sounds like a good thing to his supporters. Middle finger to the man.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 31, 2018)

Tommy, can you hear me?
Can you feel me near you?
Tommy, can you see me?
Can I help to cheer you?
Oh, Tommy, Tommy
Tommy, Tommy

Tommy, can you hear me?
Can you feel me near you?
Tommy, can you see me?
Can I…

Tommy, can you hear me?
Can you feel me near you?
Tommy, can you see me?
Can I help to cheer you?

Oh, Tommy, Tommy
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy
Tommy, Tommy, Tommy


----------



## gosub (May 31, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> Tommy, can you hear me?
> Can you feel me near you?
> Tommy, can you see me?
> Can I help to cheer you?
> ...




I'm guessing, but I'm not sure Pete Townsend would approve.  He would certainly research the issue thoroughly before getting involved


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 31, 2018)

he is a very dedicated researcher. very dedicated


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 31, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> he is a very dedicated researcher. very dedicated



Got a fucking good team of lawyers too.


----------



## Whagwan (May 31, 2018)




----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2018)

gosub said:


> I'm guessing, but I'm not sure Pete Townsend would approve.  He would certainly research the issue thoroughly before getting involved


pete would not get fooled again


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


>


i like the way tr's getting hanged by traitors' gate


----------



## LDC (May 31, 2018)

Think this is exposing some pretty grim things that are ascendant in UK politics. There's a growing nationalist and patriotic street movement that's engaging people partly on the grounds of free speech and some form of class politics fighting against 'elites'. Do think things are quite volatile and potentially scary atm.

The left is struggling to know how to react I think. There's a demo in the town I live in for Tommy Robinson and all the left can think of is go down and take photos like they're a few neo-nazis and we're trying to find out where they live.


----------



## Celyn (May 31, 2018)

That's a bit worrying. The people holding a demo in support of Tommy Robinson - do they not understand at all why he's inside pleasuring her Majesty? I mean, genuinely think he's a mistreated martyr? I'd have thought even television news might have made it clear but it's alarming if people fall for this rubbish. Oh well, with luck they'll only get half a dozen crazies and just look daft.


----------



## ddraig (May 31, 2018)

Celyn said:


> That's a bit worrying. The people holding a demo in support of Tommy Robinson - do they not understand at all why he's inside pleasuring her Majesty? I mean, genuinely think he's a mistreated martyr? I'd have thought even television news might have made it clear but it's alarming if people fall for this rubbish. Oh well, with luck they'll only get half a dozen crazies and just look daft.


they'll get loads
people are not interested in the facts sadly
seen some discussions where people are presented with the facts and links but either don't read them or keep calling bullshit and conspiracy


----------



## Celyn (May 31, 2018)

Oh.  Oh well, perhaps some of the promised rain and thunderstorms might come along and drown them.


----------



## Nylock (Jun 1, 2018)

existentialist said:


> Is she delusional, or just a troublemaker? Tough call...


Surely a delusional trouble maker...?


----------



## cyril_smear (Jun 1, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> "the long walk to Luton" by Tommy Robinson



"Holding court" by Tommy Robinson.

Thank my Mum for that one.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 1, 2018)

The problem with this stuff is the left will find it difficult to argue with because the "left" like to at least imagine they use facts and are rational and normal politics has some relationship to facts you make think Tory economic policy is bollocks but its economic policy aimed at making the rich richer. Rather than an economic policy aimed at keeping Muslim nonce gangs out of the city.
  you got really angry people who have latched onto a target and really don't want facts or hated experts getting in the way
  post factual politics


----------



## cyril_smear (Jun 1, 2018)

I notice he didn't end up in Armley... That would have caused some friction to say the least.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 1, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Think this is exposing some pretty grim things that are ascendant in UK politics. There's a growing nationalist and patriotic street movement that's engaging people partly on the grounds of free speech and some form of class politics fighting against 'elites'. Do think things are quite volatile and potentially scary atm.
> 
> The left is struggling to know how to react I think. There's a demo in the town I live in for Tommy Robinson and all the left can think of is go down and take photos like they're a few neo-nazis and we're trying to find out where they live.



A lot of "anti fascism" seems to be about manipulating the situation at hand to allow for some kind of squad/affinity group action regardless of how effective that would be.


----------



## Cloo (Jun 1, 2018)

likesfish said:


> The problem with this stuff is the left will find it difficult to argue with because the "left" like to at least imagine they use facts and are rational and normal politics has some relationship to facts you make think Tory economic policy is bollocks but its economic policy aimed at making the rich richer. Rather than an economic policy aimed at keeping Muslim nonce gangs out of the city.
> you got really angry people who have latched onto a target and really don't want facts or hated experts getting in the way
> post factual politics


Yup, you get them blatantly ignoring actual legal professionals telling them that this is how the system works. Also it doesn't help that a lot of them genuinely believe that 'liberals' are so PC that they will actually condone anything done by anyone who isn't white.


----------



## Athos (Jun 1, 2018)

Working class people see wages declining in real terms, services overstretched, precarious housing etc..  But the mainstream left fights shy of talking about the root cause of those very real problems i.e. capitalism.   Because it's been colonised by people whose interests are served by the _status quo_ i.e. middle-class careerists.  (Often their only claim to being of the left is the conflation of that term with liberalism, which we've seen on this thread.)

Which leaves a space for the right to position themselves as the ones who care/have the answers.  The owners of capital laughing whilst workers turn on each other, fighting for scraps.  Helped by the useful idiots of an increasingly popular strain IDPol whose aspirations for justice amount to how those scraps are divided, rather than questioning why workers aren't at the table.

We can sneer at ignorant proles ignoring facts and experts, but the reality is these politics are often born more of desperation than anything else.  Whilst there's a small hardcore of committed fascists, the majority of people who are increasingly sharing this stuff on social media aren't (they've been exploited and duped by them).  Largely, they  just want to push back against the liberals who've done fuck all but abandon or patronise them.

The answer must be for workers to organise to build solidarity and win back the left from the bottom up.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 1, 2018)

Spot on.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 1, 2018)

Athos said:


> Working class people see wages declining in real terms, services overstretched, precarious housing etc..  But the mainstream left fights shy of talking about the root cause of those very real problems i.e. capitalism.   Because it's been colonised by people whose interests are served by the _status quo_ i.e. middle-class careerists.  (Often their only claim to being of the left is the conflation of that term with liberalism, which we've seen on this thread.)
> 
> Which leaves a space for the right to position themselves as the ones who care/have the answers.  The owners of capital laughing whilst workers turn on each other, fighting for scraps.
> 
> ...



So says somebody in every meeting on the subject I've ever been to.  What's the plan? What's the first step?


----------



## Athos (Jun 1, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> So says somebody in every meeting on the subject I've ever been to.  What's the plan? What's the first step?



Well, that's the more difficult bit!  I'd say a start would be all doing our bit in community activity, where we live and work.  The long term building of something positive as a class, rather than an over-reliance on one-off set-piece protests and single issues. And an explicit rejection of being co-opted by a political class.  And trying to break down the conflation of 'left' and 'liberal' at every opportunity.  And, when we hear this shit in pubs or at the school gate, challenge it in a way that shows empathy for what's at the root, rather than shrill condemnation.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 1, 2018)

Cloo said:


> Yup, you get them blatantly ignoring actual legal professionals telling them that this is how the system works.


How dreadful. Should go back to their boxes and let the _professionals_ get on with it. Like those silly Italian voters electing the wrong parties.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 1, 2018)

Athos said:


> Well, that's the more difficult bit!  I'd say a start would be all doing our bit in community activity, where we live and work.  The long term building of something positive as a class, rather than an over-reliance on one-off set-piece protests and single issues. And an explicit rejection of being co-opted by a political class.  And trying to break down the conflation of 'left' and 'liberal' at every opportunity.  And, when we hear this shit in pubs or at the school gate, challenge it in a way that shows empathy for what's at the root, rather than shrill condemnation.



What's your experience of doing this? How did it work out? Any lessons?


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 1, 2018)

Athos said:


> Working class people see wages declining in real terms, services overstretched, precarious housing etc..  But the mainstream left fights shy of talking about the root cause of those very real problems i.e. capitalism.   Because it's been colonised by people whose interests are served by the _status quo_ i.e. middle-class careerists.  (Often their only claim to being of the left is the conflation of that term with liberalism, which we've seen on this thread.)
> 
> Which leaves a space for the right to position themselves as the ones who care/have the answers.  The owners of capital laughing whilst workers turn on each other, fighting for scraps.  Helped by the useful idiots of an increasingly popular strain IDPol whose aspirations for justice amount to how those scraps are divided, rather than questioning why workers aren't at the table.
> 
> ...



Nail. Meet. Head!


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 1, 2018)

Athos said:


> Well, that's the more difficult bit!  I'd say a start would be all doing our bit in community activity, where we live and work.  The long term building of something positive as a class, rather than an over-reliance on one-off set-piece protests and single issues. And an explicit rejection of being co-opted by a political class.  And trying to break down the conflation of 'left' and 'liberal' at every opportunity.  And, when we hear this shit in pubs or at the school gate, challenge it in a way that shows empathy for what's at the root, rather than shrill condemnation.



There are dangers in assuming that the far right is powered by some kind of misguided leftism.


----------



## Athos (Jun 1, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> There are dangers in assuming that the far right is powered by some kind of misguided leftism.



I don't think that.


----------



## gosub (Jun 1, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> "Holding court" by Tommy Robinson.
> 
> Thank my Mum for that one.


Peter & Jane start a race war.  But even that would have to be ghost written.   More likely a colouring in book that comes with a lot of pink crayons.


----------



## Athos (Jun 1, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> What's your experience of doing this? How did it work out? Any lessons?



Long and varied, with admittedly mixed results.

Some workplace and local amenity campaigns have been very successful, as have efforts to prevent right wing infiltration of my football club (Luton).  Crucial factors there being a setting shared interest in something tangible.

Other campaigns, have been less successful. The sticking points being a less well defined goal, and no end in sight.

Ironically, I believe the latter to have been more important though.

I try to do the day-to-day stuff as it comes up e.g. when some of these views are raised in  casual conversation. 

So I guess I'm saying I don't have the answers; I peaked at restating the problem!


----------



## hot air baboon (Jun 1, 2018)

cyril_smear said:


> I notice he didn't end up in Armley... That would have caused some friction to say the least.



don't they use vaseline ?


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 1, 2018)

Athos said:


> Long and varied, with admittedly mixed results.
> 
> Some workplace and local amenity campaigns have been very successful, as have efforts to prevent right wing infiltration of my football club (Luton).  Crucial factors there being a setting shared interest in something tangible.
> 
> ...



Luton? Fair to say you've had mixed results then?


----------



## Athos (Jun 1, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Luton? Fair to say you've had mixed results then?



Given what it was looking like, I'd call it a result!


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 1, 2018)

gosub said:


> Peter & Jane start a race war.  But even that would have to be ghost written.   More likely a colouring in book that comes with a lot of pink crayons.


What happened to Janet and John?


----------



## Poi E (Jun 1, 2018)

Tough call, opposing well-funded British nationalism.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jun 1, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> don't they use vaseline ?



No!! Swarfega


----------



## Poi E (Jun 1, 2018)

Their Lords and Masters could give them some tips on the finer points of institutional buggery.


----------



## Cloo (Jun 1, 2018)

redsquirrel said:


> How dreadful. Should go back to their boxes and let the _professionals_ get on with it. Like those silly Italian voters electing the wrong parties.


 In this case, yes, people should listen to professionals.

Ignorance of how and why the legal system acts as it does is being used to fan the flames of the idea that Robinson is the victim of some kind of conspiracy rather than a man being arrested for the thing he was told he would be arrested for if attempting it again. And far better they have it explained by people qualified in law than some random punter like me, for example.

It's not at all the same thing as telling people they voted for the 'wrong party' which is much more subjective


----------



## billbond (Jun 1, 2018)

Celyn said:


> That's a bit worrying. The people holding a demo in support of Tommy Robinson - do they not understand at all why he's inside pleasuring her Majesty? I mean, genuinely think he's a mistreated martyr? I'd have thought even television news might have made it clear but it's alarming if people fall for this rubbish. Oh well, with luck they'll only get half a dozen crazies and just look daft.



Ref to last bit would be a bit like the EU love in anti Brexit march then , that was a piss poor turnout.
The support for Robinson has shocked me looking at some sites the last week or so.
One of my relatives writes blogs and she has had a torrent of abuse for saying things about Robinson
She is even thinking of packing it in.
The police must be loving all these marches with the overtime and the rewards.

On this thread i see a list of shame for him Mortgage fraud etc and "football violence"  ???. i had never heard of that one
Never knew he was a football fan , was wondering if this was at a enger-land game


----------



## treelover (Jun 1, 2018)

isvicthere? said:


> Nail. Meet. Head!



Absolutely, it won't be taken up though by the fronts that seem to dominate left causes now, SUTR, etc.


----------



## treelover (Jun 1, 2018)

billbond said:


> Ref to last bit would be a bit like the EU love in anti Brexit march then , that was a piss poor turnout.
> The support for Robinson has shocked me looking at some sites the last week or so.
> One of my relatives writes blogs and she has had a torrent of abuse for saying things about Robinson
> She is even thinking of packing it in.
> ...




Plenty of people on here have pointed out how over the years this has been building up, the left seems to be like the proverbial rabbit in the cars headlights, groups like SUTR are absolutely not the organisations to be at the front of challenging it, it needs a class based attack. TR and his ideas are being mainstreamed, i am aware of progressive folk who now seem to share some of them, jokes and meme's and satire only get you so far.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 1, 2018)

treelover said:


> Absolutely, it won't be taken up though by the fronts that seem to dominate left causes now, SUTR, etc.



Set your own front up then.


----------



## andysays (Jun 1, 2018)

Cloo said:


> In this case, yes, people should listen to professionals.
> 
> Ignorance of how and why the legal system acts as it does is being used to fan the flames of the idea that Robinson is the victim of some kind of conspiracy rather than a man being arrested for the thing he was told he would be arrested for if attempting it again. And far better they have it explained by people qualified in law than some random punter like me, for example.
> 
> It's not at all the same thing as telling people they voted for the 'wrong party' which is much more subjective


What's missing from your answer is any idea of WHY people (only some people of course) are so pissed off with experts/professionals/those who know better that they are rejecting what they say (not just about contempt of court but much more widely) and listening to the simplistic narrative of a twat like Tommy fucking Robinson.


----------



## Cloo (Jun 1, 2018)

Perfectly good point! People don't seem to have good much good out of them, do they?


----------



## andysays (Jun 1, 2018)

treelover said:


> Plenty of people on here have pointed out how over the years this has been building up, the left seems to be like the proverbial rabbit in the cars headlights, groups like SUTR are absolutely not the organisations to be at the front of challenging it, it needs a class based attack. TR and his ideas are being mainstreamed, i am aware of progressive folk who now seem to share some of them, jokes and meme's and satire only get you so far.


Jokes and memes and satire get you nowhere in this situation, they're actually part of the problem.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2018)

treelover said:


> Plenty of people on here have pointed out how over the years this has been building up, the left seems to be like the proverbial rabbit in the cars headlights, groups like SUTR are absolutely not the organisations to be at the front of challenging it, it needs a class based attack. TR and his ideas are being mainstreamed, i am aware of progressive folk who now seem to share some of them, jokes and meme's and satire only get you so far.


it's disappointing that your time away hasn't seen you develop any greater political nous.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 1, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Set your own front up then.


I think he's more about hand wringing than action.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I think he's more about hand wringing than action.


effete and ineffectual hand wringing. and anyway he'd be four square behind theresa may if only she wasn't so vile to people on benefits.


----------



## treelover (Jun 1, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I think he's more about hand wringing than action.



ah, so the bullying that has made many posters who made this site leave, especially the poison that eminates from Pickmans.,


You know fuck all about me, and what i do, but i don't attack individuals, only ideas and organisations, i suggest you do the same, 

can't believe the personal stuff is happening already.


----------



## treelover (Jun 1, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> it's disappointing that your time away hasn't seen you develop any greater political nous.



er, you have just liked andysays post, which partly agrees with me.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2018)

treelover said:


> er, you have just liked andysays post, which partly agrees with me.


i like lots of posts, it doesn't mean i necessarily agree with the content.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 1, 2018)

treelover said:


> ah, so the bullying that has made many posters who made this site leave, especially the poison that eminates from Pickmans.,
> 
> 
> You know fuck all about me, and what i do, but i don't attack individuals, only ideas and organisations, i suggest you do the same,
> ...


All I know about you is what you post on here.

And all you post on here is moaning and complaining about how nobody's doing what you think should be done. 

So what you choose to interpret as bullying is far more likely to be people being irritated by your holier than thou posturing, and endless implying that you are somehow better than everyone else.


----------



## andysays (Jun 1, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i like lots of posts, it doesn't mean i necessarily agree with the content.


But obviously you agree with all of MY posts, right?


----------



## 8ball (Jun 1, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i like lots of posts, it doesn't mean i necessarily agree with the content.



Yeah, think we went through the many reasons people click 'like' on a thread once.

Mine include:

Agreement
Argument I hadn't seen before
Liking cut of jib
Being persuaded of something
Audacity
Bizarre unprovoked rant
Resurrection of cross-thread beef from more than 5 years ago


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2018)

andysays said:


> But obviously you agree with all of MY posts, right?


i agree with you to some extent more often than not


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2018)

8ball said:


> Yeah, think we went through the many reasons people click 'like' on a thread once.
> 
> Mine include:
> 
> ...


not to mention 'carry on slagging them off and you'll get more likes'.


----------



## andysays (Jun 1, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i agree with you to some extent more often than not


I suppose that will have to do for now


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 1, 2018)

Cloo said:


> In this case, yes, people should listen to professionals.
> 
> Ignorance of how and why the legal system acts as it does is being used to fan the flames of the idea that Robinson is the victim of some kind of conspiracy rather than a man being arrested for the thing he was told he would be arrested for if attempting it again. And far better they have it explained by people qualified in law than some random punter like me, for example.


And of course "how the law works" is totally objective and apolitical. This is exactly the attitude that Athos was criticising.  

BTW what about non-professionals talking about schools, for instance pushing grammar schools (on the basis of fallacious information), is that allowed? Or should such people shut up?


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 1, 2018)

Samantha Markle demands release of Tommy Robinson


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Samantha Markle demands release of Tommy Robinson


how long can it be before the duchess of sussex asks her mother-in-law for a pardon?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 1, 2018)

this country is a wretched shithole.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> this country is a wretched shithole.


a stinking midden even


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 1, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Samantha Markle demands release of Tommy Robinson



Another family member who didn't get a wedding invite, no doubt


----------



## Whagwan (Jun 1, 2018)




----------



## The39thStep (Jun 1, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


> Samantha Markle demands release of Tommy Robinson





> Samantha Markle has proved a controversial sibling for the newest member of the British Royal family.
> 
> She previously cast doubt on her half sister's motivations for charity work, and called on the Royal family to "step up to the plate" and help Meghan's bankrupt father.


American calls for state intervention to help the needy


----------



## ddraig (Jun 1, 2018)

treelover said:


> Plenty of people on here have pointed out how over the years this has been building up, the left seems to be like the proverbial rabbit in the cars headlights, groups like SUTR are absolutely not the organisations to be at the front of challenging it, it needs a class based attack. TR and his ideas are being mainstreamed, i am aware of progressive folk who now seem to share some of them, jokes and meme's and satire only get you so far.


look who's back to point the finger!! sigh


----------



## billbond (Jun 1, 2018)

Another march going on in support of TR in Leeds this afternoon
Hundreds marching in to the  town center and ending in a rally outside the main court.
A few films of the meet online
Seems to be something else arranged for the week end on the same lines.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 1, 2018)

The far right give simple solutions
  The left  don't
‘We don’t exist to them, do we?’: why working-class people voted for Brexit
  theres Basically a massive amount of people who no longer believe the system even gives a shit about them so fuck em we will do something that will piss "them" off regardless of the results


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2018)

Drove past a "Pray for Tommy Robinson" billboard in some field off the M40 earlier


----------



## hot air baboon (Jun 1, 2018)

are they including mosques in that ?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 1, 2018)

This will be controversial for some posters but imv  there is some  truth in this .Tommy Robinson & ‘Grooming Gangs’: Britain Persecutes Journalist | National Review


----------



## Athos (Jun 1, 2018)

.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This will be controversial for some posters but imv  there is some  truth in this .Tommy Robinson & ‘Grooming Gangs’: Britain Persecutes Journalist | National Review


Which bits?


----------



## A380 (Jun 1, 2018)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This will be controversial for some posters but imv  there is some  truth in this .Tommy Robinson & ‘Grooming Gangs’: Britain Persecutes Journalist | National Review


It’s a pile of bigoted shite in the fucking National Review. Why the fuck would you post blithely that there was “truth” in it? Please be quite specific.


----------



## Athos (Jun 2, 2018)

Fucking heel i ought not to list on this thread when pissed.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 2, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It’s a pile of bigoted shite in the fucking National Review. Why the fuck would you post blithely that there was “truth” in it? Please be quite specific.


Dont know about you but I tend to  read articles and then pass judgement rather than dismiss them just because they are in a journal or paper whose  view I might not support. I'm not into echo chambers. 
I nearly ended up with cutting  and pasting the entire article in blocks to answer your question. I hate to answer a question with a question but to save me the bother what bits led  you to  blithely come to the conclusion that this  was a pile of bigoted shit?


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 2, 2018)

Just saying:

Rod's Randoms: pae-DL! The child abusers at the heart of Britain's far right


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 2, 2018)

Ah hell I'm up early, why not. I may not do the whole article, because I suspect I'll get bored given its early howlers.



> Tommy Robinson is a British political activist and “citizen journalist”



He's not a journalist. None of his "reports" offer basic journalistic fact checking, right to reply etc. He's a propagandist for the far right. That they refer to him as such is the first indication that Douglas Murray (whose other recent articles include "Enoch had a point" and "stop and search ain't racist guv" (I paraphrase) may not be entirely unbiased here.



> The EDL was a street-protest movement in Britain whose aims could probably best be summarized as “anti-Islamization.”



Ho ho very good, that is indeed far more palatable than "collection of fascists, hooligans and hangers-on usinng 'anti-Islamization' as a handy blind for throwing up Nazi salutes in public."



> The authorities did everything they could to stop the EDL, and the media did everything possible to demonize them.



The EDL here, being portrayed as just a band of poor little victims (I must've missed the bit where they were subject to mass arrests).



> In a foretaste of things to come, very few people made any effort to understand them.



What was there to understand? It's the same tactic the far-right has been trying with more or less success since the NF did their "Britain's full" marches.



> And nobody paid any price for (indeed many people benefited from) claiming that the EDL was simply a fascist organization and that anybody who even tried to understand them must be a fascist too. The usual prohibition against sweeping generalizations doesn’t seem to apply if the generalization tilts in that direction.



It's almost as if they kept doing things which supported the view that it was in fact full of fascists, and people making excuses for them weren't likely to be on the level as a result.



> I interviewed Tommy Robinson five years ago ... one of the problems of everyone insisting that a particular movement is campaigning for the Fourth Reich is that the few people who think that sounds like a great idea will show up. Whatever his other faults, there is no evidence that Robinson thinks that way.



It's here that our cynical hack suddenly becomes as credulous as a toddler. My goodness Douglas, so even though Tommy was a former BNP member, got arrested for racially-aggravated assault, founded the most famous far-right group of modern times and has in fact spent most of the last decade doing literally nothing other than slag muslims off for collectively being paedos, now he says he's not racist well, he's not racist.



> Indeed he was once charged with assault for head-butting a Nazi sympathizer who wouldn’t leave an EDL protest. Not many people bothered with those details. The assault got reported, but not the cause. So the fact that Robinson had head-butted a Nazi became yet more evidence that he himself must be some kind of Nazi.



Yes, I too get annoyed at headbangers at the fringes of my own movement who have been around for ages yet still can't show any message discipline and make my life more difficult.



> Anyhow — Robinson wised up slightly, and eventually began to plow his energies into a type of citizen journalism/activism.



Well yeah that's the crux of this isn't it. Tommy is a career far-rightist who identified that the EDL marches couldn't do more than organise boneheads and start rucks, and who had been facing pressure over the upset his group had caused, so he tried something else. He didn't get another job, or change anything about his views, he just shifted his method of attack.



> Some of this has been remarkably brave, some of it remarkably wrong (such as a video he made after last year’s Manchester Arena attack, in which he seemed to furiously suggest that everyone living around a particular mosque in the area must be some type of enemy combatant), and some remarkably ill-advised — not least because it has allowed him to be presented in the worst possible light.



_I'll advised? _Just washing over that one quickly are we Douglas?



> For example, a couple of months ago Robinson went to Italy. In May of last year an Italian television crew reporting on migrants in Rome had been attacked by some migrants near a local train station.



etc etc. Apparently it's "brave" for this tool to ambulance chase an incident in another country to support his campaign against migrants, and not evidence that maybe he's going to some fairly spectacular lengths to perpetuate a propaganda message by schlepping out to Italy - a country where racism, violence and pressure against migrants is at its most febrile anywhere in the EU bar maybe Greece, to find an example of Migrants Behaving Badly who don't like media sources which have continually demonised and dehumanised them.

I could go on but you get the idea. Douglas is a twisty little shit in this article, doing his best to go through Robinson's exceedingly long rap sheet in such a way as to totally exonerate him. But every single one of the incidents he highlights takes place in a context that Mr "Enoch had a point" is at great pains to avoid.

I don't blame you for being a bit bamboozled The39thStep, this is the higher end of how the hard right operates, pretending that all these little incidents don't add up to racism, just "asking questions" etc. But this is also standard tactics, and if you're going to engage in debate on it you need to be significantly more savvy about working out people's motivations and agit-prop techniques. Oh and just one more thing, as it's specifically on topic:



> Which brings me to last Friday. That was when Robinson was filming outside Leeds Crown Court, where the latest grooming-gang case was going on. I have to be slightly careful here, because although National Review is based in the U.S., I am not, and there are reporting restrictions on the ongoing case.



Douglas, unlike not-a-journalist Tommy, has enough nous not to endanger an ongoing court case, against Britain's extremely strict reporting restrictions. He can call the outcome "depressing" if he likes, but the facts are the facts. No NCTJ-trained journalist would ever be stupid enough to do what Robinson did. And that's why he's inside. Not because he's being "persecuted."



> It isn’t the worst thing in the world (it isn’t child rape, for instance).



Robinson nearly collapsed a criminal investigation into child rape because even though he'd been told about the law, he couldn't be fucked to follow it and preferred to use the case to build up his own media following among the sort of twat who feels all warm and fuzzy when someone says muslims are paedos. That's pretty fucking bad.



> Tommy Robinson thought it was worth the aggravation, even if that meant having his whole life turned upside down.



Yeah... hero Tommy Robinson who can't keep his mic in his pants until after a trial. And you recommended this utter bollocks?


----------



## High Voltage (Jun 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This will be controversial for some posters but imv  there is some  truth in this .Tommy Robinson & ‘Grooming Gangs’: Britain Persecutes Journalist | National Review



you just need to read between the lines for the hidden messages . . . there's more in there I'm sure



> Tommy Robinson is a British political activ*is*t and “citizen journalist” who came to prominence in Brit*a*in almost a de*c*ade ago when he fo*un*ded *t*he English Defence League. The EDL was a street-protest movement in Britain whose aims could probably best be summarized as “anti-Islamization.” It emerged in the town of Luton after a group of local Islamists barracked the homecoming parade of a local regiment returning from service in Afghanistan.


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## newbie (Jun 2, 2018)

> it is by now abundantly clear that every arm of the British state has been out to get Tommy Robinson from the moment he emerged on the scene in Luton a decade ago.


that's the bit I'm wondering about. Does anyone think it's true?


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## Treacle Toes (Jun 2, 2018)

newbie said:


> that's the bit I'm wondering about. Does anyone think it's true?



Emerged on what scene though? He was a petty crim and football hooligan before heading the EDL wasn't he?


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 2, 2018)

newbie said:


> that's the bit I'm wondering about. Does anyone think it's true?



If "every arm" of the British state includes the Royal Navy, DEFRA or the mass ranks of civil servants working on Brexit, then no, it isn't true.


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## Rob Ray (Jun 2, 2018)

The only people who think it's true are people who have never met someone actually targeted by the British State. Tommy can go places without being patted down every five minutes, for example. He's not had his accounts repeatedly requested for perusal. His phones don't mysteriously go missing and he's not continually trailed around after by suspicious white vans. He's not had to change his name (other than to make it sound more proley). If the State gave much of a shit about Tommy he'd know about it.


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## The39thStep (Jun 2, 2018)

newbie said:


> that's the bit I'm wondering about. Does anyone think it's true?


It may be  a bit over the top but I dont think there is any doubt that he is 'a person of interest' .


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 2, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> The only people who think it's true are people who have never met someone actually targeted by the British State. Tommy can go places without being patted down every five minutes, for example. He's not had his accounts repeatedly requested for perusal. His phones don't mysteriously go missing and he's not continually trailed around after by suspicious white vans. He's not had to change his name (other than to make it sound more proley). If the State gave much of a shit about Tommy he'd know about it.



That said, it's hard to believe that there were no police spies in or around the EDL.


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## Rob Ray (Jun 2, 2018)

> It may be a bit over the top but I dont think there is any doubt that he is 'a person of interest' .



And? *I'm* a person of interest, because the State keeps a file on pretty much anyone who's vaguely political. that's very different from being the target of State repression, which he is not.


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## The39thStep (Jun 2, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Emerged on what scene though? He was a petty crim and football hooligan before heading the EDL wasn't he?


I think his football hooligan c.v is very thin. He took his name from a locally well know hoolie.I think the emergence reference relates to opposition to the Sharia4UK types who were active in Luton and the march that was held.


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## Rob Ray (Jun 2, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> That said, it's hard to believe that there were no police spies in or around the EDL.



No doubt, but again, that's not evidence that Tommy is someone they particularly care about, it's just standard operating procedure for radical groups. They film TUC protests too.


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## The39thStep (Jun 2, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> And? *I'm* a person of interest, because the State keeps a file on pretty much anyone who's vaguely political. that's very different from being the target of State repression, which he is not.


Do you really think that the state keeps a file on anyone whose is vaguely political?


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## Rob Ray (Jun 2, 2018)

I don't think anything, they're quite open about both the Police National Database and the capabilities of GCHQ. Back in the day it might have been paper files, now it's just mass surveillance and terabytes of automatically cross-referenced data.


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## The39thStep (Jun 2, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> I don't think anything, they're quite open about both the Police National Database and the capabilities of GCHQ. Back in the day it might have been paper files, now it's just mass surveillance and terabytes of automatically cross-referenced data.



On anyone whose is vaguely political?


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 2, 2018)

i would be amazed if the spooks/special branch et al didn't keep a very close eye on mr yaxley-lennon.


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## newbie (Jun 2, 2018)

The police keep files on people who are criminals and selectively on those they suspect of identifiable potential to engage in criminal activity. They and/or the security services keep files on people prominent in politics. The prison and probation services keep their own records. That's all well known and in their job descriptions and he's going to feature in multiple files.  But it's a long way from demonstrating that the British state are 'out to get' him, which requires far, far more evidence than that.


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## Rob Ray (Jun 2, 2018)

I.e. active about it - organise or a regular presence on demos, run known websites etc. The police (not the secret state mind, the bit you can make an FoI request to) held details on more than 9,000 "extremists" on their national database (including anyone who went to for example Earth First) until they got told off about it and there's no reason to expect they're not just doing the same thing now behind "operational security".


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## Red Sky (Jun 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This will be controversial for some posters but imv  there is some  truth in this .Tommy Robinson & ‘Grooming Gangs’: Britain Persecutes Journalist | National Review



Douglas Murray is basically the Tommy Robinson that would get invited round for afternoon tea.

His book "The Strange Death of Europe" is a load if Identitarian tripe. He talks about the persecution of Tommy in that.


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## tim (Jun 2, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> how long can it be before the duchess of sussex asks her mother-in-law for a pardon?


The only thing she wants is an annulment


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## tim (Jun 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This will be controversial for some posters but imv  there is some  truth in this .Tommy Robinson & ‘Grooming Gangs’: Britain Persecutes Journalist | National Review


Most Credulous post of the year


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## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> i would be amazed if the spooks/special branch et al didn't keep a very close eye on mr yaxley-lennon.


Must say he's going out of his way to prove he's not a state asset like auld charlie sargent was


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## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2018)

tim said:


> Most Credulous post of the year


Now treelover's returned we can expect some exceedingly credulous posts in the remainder of the year


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## chilango (Jun 2, 2018)

Sorry, mistaken identity. Ignore me.


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## RD2003 (Jun 2, 2018)

There is truth in the article despite where it's coming from. Can anybody really deny that the authorities all but ignored what was going on, on the unspoken assumption that the lives of 'white trash' girls from the lower end of the working class didn't really matter if it meant a disruption in supposed community cohesion? And that the left, in the main, would have been content to do likewise for precisely the same reasons? 

It's quite telling that Yaxley-Lennon and co. still cause the left far more agitation than the infinitely more deadly Islamist fanatics and sexual abuse rings.


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## LiamO (Jun 2, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It’s a pile of bigoted shite in the fucking National Review. Why the fuck would you post blithely that there was “truth” in it? Please be quite specific.



Maybe he means this bit.

"The problem — as I said in 2015 — is that any challenge Robinson presents is all a secondary issue. The primary issue is that for years the British state allowed gangs of men to rape thousands of young girls across Britain. For years the police, politicians, Crown Prosecution Service, and every other arm of the state ostensibly dedicated to protecting these girls failed them. As a number of government inquires have concluded, they turned their face away from these girls because they were terrified of the accusations of racism that would come their way if they did address them. They decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation."

Wouldn't have happened to nice middle-class girls either. Just poor, white, working-class ones.

This is where the Lennon fella and his ilk may political hay.


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## Red Sky (Jun 2, 2018)

LiamO said:


> Maybe he means this bit.
> 
> "The problem — as I said in 2015 — is that any challenge Robinson presents is all a secondary issue. The primary issue is that for years the British state allowed gangs of men to rape thousands of young girls across Britain. For years the police, politicians, Crown Prosecution Service, and every other arm of the state ostensibly dedicated to protecting these girls failed them. As a number of government inquires have concluded, they turned their face away from these girls because they were terrified of the accusations of racism that would come their way if they did address them. They decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation."
> 
> ...



I don't think they were "terrified of the accusations of racism" - they're using that as an excuse now for widespread incompetence and corruption.


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## andysays (Jun 2, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> There is truth in the article despite where it's coming from. Can anybody really deny that the authorities all but ignored what was going on, on the unspoken assumption that the lives of 'white trash' girls from the lower end of the working class didn't really matter if it meant a disruption in supposed community cohesion? And that the left, in the main, would have been content to do likewise for precisely the same reasons?



I think it's generally agreed here that the authorities weren't too bothered about the lives of the girls involved, but it isn't necessary to introduce spurious nonsense like 'concerns about community cohesion' to explain that, unless you specifically want to push the anti-muslim and anti-left aspects of this.


RD2003 said:


> It's quite telling that Yaxley-Lennon and co. still cause the left far more agitation than the infinitely more deadly Islamist fanatics and sexual abuse rings.


And it's quite telling that you lump 'deadly Islamist fanatics and sexual abuse rings' together as if it's been clearly demonstrated that they're linked, and you use this as another excuse to bash 'the left'.


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## Raheem (Jun 2, 2018)

As I mentioned in another thread, I had some dealings with the police over this sort of thing when I was  community worker. It's  absolutely a red herring to think that they were afraid of getting called racist or of the faithful starting a riot in defence of their noble brothers. Shocking though it may be, they've traditionally taken a view that vulnerable girls being preyed on by dodgy men is just an unfortunate part of life's rich tapestry and not really a police matter. It wasn't really anything new on the police side of things.

And, in any case, who do you know on "the left" who would take a view that a bit of noncing is OK provided it keeps the peace? This seems like something from a far-right blog post, swallowed and regurgitated.


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## treelover (Jun 2, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> There is truth in the article despite where it's coming from. Can anybody really deny that the authorities all but ignored what was going on, on the unspoken assumption that the lives of 'white trash' girls from the lower end of the working class didn't really matter if it meant a disruption in supposed community cohesion? And that the left, in the main, would have been content to do likewise for precisely the same reasons?
> 
> It's quite telling that Yaxley-Lennon and co. still cause the left far more agitation than the infinitely more deadly Islamist fanatics and sexual abuse rings.




Conference today, Stand Up to Racism, front for the SWP rape apologists

I cannot think of one time when they protested against Islamic extremists, in fact they invite them to their events.


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## A380 (Jun 2, 2018)

newbie said:


> that's the bit I'm wondering about. Does anyone think it's true?



Every arm of the British State? 

 The Broads authority are on his case. If he ever wants to go on a gentle boating holiday with no locks he’s really fucked.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 2, 2018)

My view is that they thought the girls deserved it because they’d ‘asked for it’ (or similar). And LiamO is absolutely right that they’d have taken a completely different view of the victims were from ‘good homes’.


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## treelover (Jun 2, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> I don't think they were "terrified of the accusations of racism" - they're using that as an excuse now for widespread incompetence and corruption.



Ah, the common left interpretation, nothing can be allowed which may indicate some culpability.


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## RD2003 (Jun 2, 2018)

andysays said:


> I think it's generally agreed here that the authorities weren't too bothered about the lives of the girls involved, but it isn't necessary to introduce spurious nonsense like 'concerns about community cohesion' to explain that, unless you specifically want to push the anti-muslim and anti-left aspects of this.
> 
> And it's quite telling that you lump 'deadly Islamist fanatics and sexual abuse rings' together as if it's been clearly demonstrated that they're linked, and you use this as another excuse to bash 'the left'.


 I didn't link them but merely mentioned them in the same sentence.

It's naive to think that the police and local authorities were not sensitive to the publicity that would inevitably result from the agitating of self-appointed community leaders and the like, who would inevitably have painted this as a racist issue before it became all too clear what was going on. Better the quiet life. As for the left, where has there been any real analysis or condemnation? It seems to me that they're far more willing to waste time on self-publicising petty entrepreneurs like Yaxley-Lennon and his cardboard Nazi hangers-on than risk undermining their long-held assumption (identical in essence to those of the authorities) that official multiculturalism can never bring problems.


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## treelover (Jun 2, 2018)

Raheem said:


> As I mentioned in another thread, I had some dealings with the police over this sort of thing when I was  community worker. It's  absolutely a red herring to think that they were afraid of getting called racist or of the faithful starting a riot in defence of their noble brothers. Shocking though it may be, they've traditionally taken a view that vulnerable girls being preyed on by dodgy men is just an unfortunate part of life's rich tapestry and not really a police matter. It wasn't really anything new on the police side of things.
> 
> And, in any case, do you know on "the left" who would take a view that a bit of noncing is OK provided it keeps the peace? This seems like something from a far-right blog post, swallowed and regurgitated.




You don't think that senior police personnel post Lawrence aren't concerned with their forces being seen as racist, i agree plenty of lower ranks wouldnt care, but it would be transmitted down to them not to make waves.


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## LDC (Jun 2, 2018)

The British State gets accused (and is) racist the whole time and doesn't seem too upset by it. Not sure why this time they were apparently so terrified of it?

The undertone also seems to be a bit is that if these pedophiles were exposed then people from their own communities and circles would have taken the pedophiles side rather than also being horrified by their actions.

Isn't it that incompetence and generally not giving much of a fuck about poor young women are much more likely to have been the major causes rather than a worry of being accused of racism?


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## treelover (Jun 2, 2018)

Apparently his books are on Amazon bestseller list again, kerching!


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## A380 (Jun 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I think his football hooligan c.v is very thin. He took his name from a locally well know hoolie.I think the emergence reference relates to opposition to the Sharia4UK types who were active in Luton and the march that was held.


Serious response for a change.

Where the EDL were ‘successful’ i.e. achieved their aims in an effective manner, was in mobilising a number of football risk groups (hooligans in old money) both in terms of members and tactics. A number of their chapters ( battalions?)  were firms, or large chunks of firms, from lower league clubs’ risk.

It only worked for a couple of years but it was quite effective whilst it did. It brought people in groups with existing communications and some command and control together;  a fair number of whom were up for a bit of a scrap. It worked against small counter protest and small or ad hoc police tactics.

Once the old bill started to use standard football responses - most of which the’d never get away with against anyone else- the EDL fairly much lost their main tactic.

The big counter protests were also hard for the EDL to deal with as they and the police response would cause everything to go static. Which didn’t favour their tactics.

Poor old Tommy’s been trying different ways to get back into the limelight ever since. None- including this latest stunt- have done the job. So it’ll probably be back to mortgage fraud soon.


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## RD2003 (Jun 2, 2018)

Raheem said:


> And, in any case, do you know on "the left" who would take a view that a bit of noncing is OK provided it keeps the peace? This seems like something from a far-right blog post, swallowed and regurgitated.



I've never known anybody on the left who might think so. I have, however, known plenty who seem to hold to the idea that ethnic minorities are still as vulnerable and isolated as they were in the 1970s, and that any criticism of what goes on in their communities gives succour to the racists.


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## Red Sky (Jun 2, 2018)

treelover said:


> Ah, the common left interpretation, nothing can be allowed which may indicate some culpability.



Whose culpability?


----------



## newbie (Jun 2, 2018)

LiamO said:


> Maybe he means this bit.
> 
> "The problem — as I said in 2015 — is that any challenge Robinson presents is all a secondary issue. The primary issue is that for years the British state allowed gangs of men to rape thousands of young girls across Britain. For years the police, politicians, Crown Prosecution Service, and every other arm of the state ostensibly dedicated to protecting these girls failed them. As a number of government inquires have concluded, they turned their face away from these girls because they were terrified of the accusations of racism that would come their way if they did address them. They decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation."
> 
> ...


Each situation is shocking and distressing for those of us who only know of it what we read, but you really don't have to go very far down the 'white trash' line you know nor the working class one.  Blind eyes were turned when other children were raped in environments like churches, childrens homes, football clubs, entertainment, private schools and so on.  The cases highlighted by racists have an extra component, but that doesn't really make them that much different, except inasmuch as the crimes were committed by working class men without the protection afforded by eg the church heirarchy.


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## treelover (Jun 2, 2018)

A380 said:


> Serious response for a change.
> 
> Where the EDL were ‘successful’ i.e. achieved their aims in an effective manner, was in mobilising a number of football risk groups (hooligans in old money) both in terms of members and tactics. A number of their chapters ( battalions?)  were firms, or large chunks of firms, from lower league clubs’ risk.
> 
> ...




Eh, his online presence(including satellite sites, fanb sites, etc) is huge, his book has just gone back on  Amazons best seller, the petition for his release is reaching 600'000, globally, there are 'Free Tommy' rallies in many countries,  all the 'stars' of the alt right, Hanson, Guilders, maybe even Trump soon, are lauding him, some failure.

edit, 600,000, not 60,00!


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## RD2003 (Jun 2, 2018)

treelover said:


> Eh, his online presence(including satellite sites, fanb sites, etc) is huge, his book has just gone back on  Amazons best seller, the petition for his release is reaching 60'000, globally, there are 'Free Tommy' rallies in many countries,  all the 'stars' of the alt right, Hanson, Guilders, maybe even Trump soon, are lauding him, some failure.


And if what people are saying on threads like this is true and that he is getting support from those that they would never have thought it of (and I have witnessed some unlikely people speaking up for his 'bravery' or 'bottle' as well), it means that his campaign to be seen as the only one who cares about issues like this in working class communities has become more successful than we might have thought only a short time ago. If this is so, that's an extra layer of potential support for any 'sensible' far-right party that emerges in the future, gleaned mainly from natural supporters of the left-of-centre.
The Americanisation of UK politics, with a sizeable section of the working class ripe for exploitation by the right, and a Labour party and its far-left satellites ignoring or pouring scorn on their concerns, is a hideous sight to behold. I might have to get somebody to create a safe space for me if it goes on much longer.


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## Raheem (Jun 2, 2018)

treelover said:


> You don't think that senior police personnel post Lawrence aren't concerned with their forces being seen as racist, i agree plenty of lower ranks wouldnt care, but it would be transmitted down to them not to make waves.



This is you imagining a narrative. I'm pretty sure that trying to avoid being seen as racist does form a part of police culture. But does that extend to not investigating crimes? I'm not aware of any evidence of it happening, but maybe you are. What I do know first hand, even though it's only based on one case, is that the police were unwilling to do anything about a certain type of grooming for no other reason than that that was their standard way of responding in those cases.


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## RD2003 (Jun 2, 2018)

Raheem said:


> This is you imagining a narrative. I'm pretty sure that trying to avoid being seen as racist does form a part of police culture. But does that extend to not investigating crimes? I'm not aware of any evidence of it happening, but maybe you are. What I do know first hand, even though it's only based on one case, is that the police were unwilling to do anything about a certain type of grooming for no other reason than that that was their standard way of responding in those cases.


I don't have any info to hand, and I could be remembering it inaccurately, but haven't the police and wider authorities more or less admitted to it in the various reports into the cases and press exposes and so on?


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## LDC (Jun 2, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> I don't have any info to hand, and I could be remembering it inaccurately, but haven't the police and wider authorities more or less admitted to it in the various reports into the cases and press exposes and so on?



As has been said rather than admitting they're fucking incompetent and basically don't give much of a fuck about poor people and even less about poor vulnerable young women, it's much easier to insist that they would have _absolutely loved_ to investigate but they were stopped by the nasty politically correct left who were just waiting to pounce and call them racist. Blame shifting classic.


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## Red Sky (Jun 2, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> I don't have any info to hand, and I could be remembering it inaccurately, but haven't the police and wider authorities more or less admitted to it in the various reports into the cases and press exposes and so on?



In the same way they admitted to institutional racism in the Lawrence case. As a cover up for actual corruption and incompetence with nameable people responsible.


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## LDC (Jun 2, 2018)

Tommy Robinson and His Mates Don’t Really Care About Abused Kids or Terrorism | Novara Media


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## tim (Jun 2, 2018)

LiamO said:


> Wouldn't have happened to nice middle-class girls either. Just poor, white, working-class ones.
> 
> This is where the Lennon fella and his ilk may political hay.



Plenty of kids from supposedly"good homes" have been abuse victims within the unregulated  institutions in the private school system. As revaluations about schools such as St Benedict's show
Ex-St Benedict's staff member convicted of sexual assault

Child abuse, cover-ups and public schools






 Abuse occurs in situations where vulnerable people are not protected from potential predators be they: taxi drivers, teachers, media personalities, clergy or family members.


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> My view is that they thought the girls deserved it because they’d ‘asked for it’ (or similar). And LiamO is absolutely right that they’d have taken a completely different view of the victims were from ‘good homes’.



The ‘chav’, a dehumanised character created to be used as a weapon of the class war, one that they used very successfully to divide.’It’s just chav girls, fuck it, probably asking for it, would be unreliable in court, too much agg.’

That’s what allowed these sickos to flourish. The state wasn’t worried about the perpetrator’s race, they just couldn’t give a shit about people they see as lesser beings.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 2, 2018)

Race does play a part too. If people hadn’t been happy to ignore it there’d have been no void for Robinson to move into.


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## Red Sky (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Race does play a part too. If people hadn’t been happy to ignore it there’d have been no void for Robinson to move into.



What part ?


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 2, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> What part ?



This article puts it quite well. 

Telford girls: the wrong kind of victims


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## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Race does play a part too. If people hadn’t been happy to ignore it there’d have been no void for Robinson to move into.


Yeh if other racists had got there first there'd have been no void for tr to move into.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Race does play a part too. If people hadn’t been happy to ignore it there’d have been no void for Robinson to move into.


The simple thing is, it could have been white men or yellow men or black men doing this, yezidi or christian or sikh, the result would have been the same. Because working class women come low in the hierarchy of state concerns whether they're white or asian or black.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 2, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh if other racists had got there first there'd have been no void for tr to move into.



I assume that’s sarcasm but in case it isn’t: branding people speaking out about it as racists is precisely the problem.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I assume that’s sarcasm but in case it isn’t: branding people speaking out about it as racists is precisely the problem.


No it isn't. The problem is not believing the victims in the first place.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 2, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> No it isn't. The problem is not believing the victims in the first place.



Yes, partly.


----------



## dessiato (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> This article puts it quite well.
> 
> Telford girls: the wrong kind of victims


A good article. Worth reading.


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 2, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> As has been said rather than admitting they're fucking incompetent and basically don't give much of a fuck about poor people and even less about poor vulnerable young women, it's much easier to insist that they would have _absolutely loved_ to investigate but they were stopped by the nasty politically correct left who were just waiting to pounce and call them racist. Blame shifting classic.


Is this what they said? Did they even mention 'the nasty politically correct left'?


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## treelover (Jun 2, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Whose culpability?



Plenty of the left are social workers, child welfare officers, etc,


RD2003 said:


> I've never known anybody on the left who might think so. I have, however, known plenty who seem to hold to the idea that ethnic minorities are still as vulnerable and isolated as they were in the 1970s, and that any criticism of what goes on in their communities gives succour to the racists.




Seen as an homegenous block, have a look who is going to the minor public schools now.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2018)

treelover said:


> Plenty of the left are social workers, child welfare officers, etc,


yeh. And your evidence for that is? You're an auld tory and no mistake and you'd proudly announce your alleigance as soon as they're less bloody to claimants


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## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2018)

treelover said:


> Seen as an homegenous block, have a look who is going to the minor public schools now.


Who is going to the minor public schools now?


----------



## tim (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yes, partly.


No, totally


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## The39thStep (Jun 2, 2018)

I'm at a Portuguese Christining do which typically is dragging on and on so I'll reply later ( if not totally three sheets by then or I'll reply tomorrow) Really want to discuss some of the posts made . Thanks


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 2, 2018)

tim said:


> No, totally



Given it was known by some what was going on and nothing was done, it can’t simply be swept aside as victims not being believed can it?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Given it was known by some what was going on and nothing was done, it can’t simply be swept aside as victims not being believed can it?


Obviously it was known about by some, the victims and perpetrators prominent among them.

Which 'some' do you mean?


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 2, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Obviously it was known about by some, the victims and perpetrators prominent among them.
> 
> Which 'some' do you mean?





> A council-commissioned report told how social workers knew of the child sex crimes in the late 90s. And in 2016, whislteblowing police chaplain Keith Osmund-Smith was suspended after passing papers to the Mirror.
> 
> Whistleblowers silenced for trying to expose UK's worst child sex abuse scandal



Would be interesting to track down this report but I won’t be doing it this evening.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Would be interesting to track down this report but I won’t be doing it this evening.


What better thing are you doing?


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## andysays (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Would be interesting to track down this report but I won’t be doing it this evening.


What that suggests to me is that some of these crimes were reported to the police, and possibly social workers, but that either the victims weren't believed or they were believed but the police and possibly social workers effectively chose to do nothing.

Nothing there suggests that 'race' or phony concerns about 'community cohesion' or any of the other things that Tommy Robinson and his like have been banging on about were actually a factor, so why do you continue to push the line that it was?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty Google inurl:rotherham.gov.uk social workers 1990s rapes filetype[colon]pdf it's not rocket science you know


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 2, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> I didn't link them but merely mentioned them in the same sentence.
> 
> It's naive to think that the police and local authorities were not sensitive to the publicity that would inevitably result from the agitating of self-appointed community leaders and the like, who would inevitably have painted this as a racist issue before it became all too clear what was going on. Better the quiet life. As for the left, where has there been any real analysis or condemnation? It seems to me that they're far more willing to waste time on self-publicising petty entrepreneurs like Yaxley-Lennon and his cardboard Nazi hangers-on than risk undermining their long-held assumption (identical in essence to those of the authorities) that official multiculturalism can never bring problems.



Your saying that leaders of the Muslim community would have protected pedophiles?


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 2, 2018)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Your saying that leaders of the Muslim community would have protected pedophiles?


Well leaders of the "white community" did. 

Whoops, that just slipped out.


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## tim (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I assume that’s sarcasm but in case it isn’t: branding people speaking out about it as racists is precisely the problem.


.
The person in question is Tommy Robinson. Are you suggesting that he is not a racist, and that his motivation was not racism?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 2, 2018)

LiamO said:


> Maybe he means this bit.
> 
> "The problem — as I said in 2015 — is that any challenge Robinson presents is all a secondary issue. The primary issue is that for years the British state allowed gangs of men to rape thousands of young girls across Britain. For years the police, politicians, Crown Prosecution Service, and every other arm of the state ostensibly dedicated to protecting these girls failed them. As a number of government inquires have concluded, they turned their face away from these girls because they were terrified of the accusations of racism that would come their way if they did address them. They decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation."
> 
> ...


The meaning of which Murray immediately makes clear by saying "Tommy Robinson has been treated with greater suspicion and a greater presumption of guilt by the United Kingdom than any Islamic extremist or mass rapist ever has been" i.e. he's talking about muslims. Anyone taking that paragraph and not looking at the rest is being very disingenuous.

Basically the entire article is him saying that TR might have made a few mistakes but he's basically right and has been/is being persecuted for what he says because Islam and the left - with a few extra bits like "every month brings news of another town in which gangs of men (almost always of Pakistani origin) have been found to have raped young, often underage, white girls" (really? well no obviously not really).

It's not very surprising because this is Douglas Fucking Murray writing in the N Fucking RO. This is what he does. What's surprising - or actually not surprising, but depressing - is to see it linked to approvingly here.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 2, 2018)

tim said:


> .
> The person in question is Tommy Robinson. Are you suggesting that he is not a racist, and that his motivation was not racism?



I wasn’t referring directly to Tommy Robinson. I was talking about the void he moved into and what contributed to it existing.


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## fishfinger (Jun 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> ...I was talking about the void he moved into and what contributed to it existing.


A momentary lapse of racism.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 2, 2018)

fishfinger said:


> A momentary lapse of racism.



Or, you know, politics.


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## Rob Ray (Jun 3, 2018)

Meanwhile, "free speech martyr" Tommy's misunderstood support base has been threatening to rape an actual journalist who overturned reporting restrictions on his case (because she knew what she was doing and wasn't just fucking about to rile up a crowd of racists).

Industry backs 'Tommy Robinson' court reporter after rape threats 

This follows on from the big Free Speech for Tommy rally they did the other week after he got banned from Twitter, where a crowd ran off an invited Muslim speaker and punched the mate he'd brought along for protection in the back of the head.


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## SpineyNorman (Jun 3, 2018)

That's not the first time his squalid little band of fuckwits has used threats of rape to intimidate a young female journalist. They were regularly picketing the workplace of a Sheffield Star journalist a couple of years back.

Cowardly cunts.


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## The39thStep (Jun 3, 2018)

I posted the article saying that I thought there was there was some truth in it , I wasnt defending either the publication or the authors politics .I dont want to live in an internet echo chamber so I try and read articles from all sorts of sources. Both Pickmans and Fridgemagnet asked me what bits I though had some truth in so......
1) _The overwhelming reaction by many to dismiss EDL supporters as fascist and to dismiss anyone who tried to understand them as fascist.

2) Robinson was suspended from Twitter a  site which merrily allows terrorist groups like Lashkar e-Taiba to keep accounts  for tweeting out a statistic about Muslim rape gangs that itself originated from the Muslim-run Quilliam foundation.

3)More important, the trial that was coming to a close last Friday is just one part of a trial involving multiple other defendants. It is certainly possible that Robinson’s breaking of reporting restrictions at the Leeds trial could have prejudiced those trials. To have caused the collapse of such a trial would have been more than a blunder; it would have been an additional blow to victims who deserve justice.

4)The problem — as I said in 2015 — is that any challenge Robinson presents is all a secondary issue. The primary issue is that for years the British state allowed gangs of men to rape thousands of young girls across Britain. For years the police, politicians, Crown Prosecution Service, and every other arm of the state ostensibly dedicated to protecting these girls failed them. As a number of government inquires have concluded, they turned their face away from these girls because they were terrified of the accusations of racism that would come their way if they did address them. They decided it wasn’t worth the aggravation.


5)So it will continue. Tommy Robinson will be in prison for another year. And all those people happy with the status quo will breathe a sigh of relief. “Thank goodness that troublemaker has gone away.” Yet their real problem has not gone away. There is no chance of their real problem going away. Because they have no plan for making it go away.They have a vague hope, of course, which is that at some point soon in the coming generations this will all simmer down and the incoming communities will develop similar views about the status of women as the rest of society. And perhaps we will get there someday.

_


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## Pickman's model (Jun 3, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I posted the article saying that I thought there was there was some truth in it , I wasnt defending either the publication or the authors politics .I dont want to live in an internet echo chamber so I try and read articles from all sorts of sources. Both Pickmans and Fridgemagnet asked me what bits I though had some truth in so......
> 1) _The overwhelming reaction by many to dismiss EDL supporters as fascist and to dismiss anyone who tried to understand them as fascist.
> 
> 2) Robinson was suspended from Twitter a  site which merrily allows terrorist groups like Lashkar e-Taiba to keep accounts  for tweeting out a statistic about Muslim rape gangs that itself originated from the Muslim-run Quilliam foundation.
> ...


your 1) is at best a questionable truth. Overwhelming reaction of many? How many? Is this many a minority or majority? Not to mention, who are these many? Haven't seen anyone dismiss even the likes of hope not hate, searchlight nor the numerous academics who've tried to understand the EDL as fascist.

2) is massive whataboutery

5) contains an untruth as tr will be out in under a year, nine months or thereabouts. Not sure who is happy with the status quo, can't be many people anyway. But it doesn't strike me as a truth.

So you're left with 3) and 4) and I'm not too sure about 4).


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 3, 2018)

4 has been talked about upthread and is basically indefensible as far as I’m concerned. Even my more racist relatives have gone quiet when I’ve said “oh yes that famously politically correct institution the police, too concerned about offending Muslims, sure they were”.

3 is true but pretty uncontroversial and has been said by lots of people who haven’t also spent the rest of their articles saying how TR is right.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 3, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> No it isn't. The problem is not believing the victims in the first place.



I'm not even sure they weren't believed as such, more that there was a sense of CBA partly due to class, partly to resources.

I suspect that can't prove that the excuse was put out that it was political correctness because the other 2 causes would make plod look worse. 

Like "Christ, we can't say we couldn't be arsed, lets say something about not upsetting the community". One reason why it seems blaggish is that muslims people of colour are arrested, charged and convicted all the time for loads of different crimes. "not upsetting the community" never seems to be a problem then.


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## Smoking kills (Jun 3, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> This article puts it quite well.
> 
> Telford girls: the wrong kind of victims


OK, I'll bite.
Spiked to me is an alt right neo liberal monetised shit heap for faux left careerist wankers.
This article dismisses the rape and abuse of workers in the entertainment industry because the media, them, don't focus on other victims.
Nothing on "balance ton porc" bien sur.
As other posters above have put better than I could, this is structural, and righteous anger about child abuse is being weaponised.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 3, 2018)

Smoking kills said:


> OK, I'll bite.
> Spiked to me is an alt right neo liberal monetised shit heap for faux left careerist wankers.
> This article dismisses the rape and abuse of workers in the entertainment industry because the media, them, don't focus on other victims.
> Nothing on "balance ton porc" bien sur.
> As other posters above have put better than I could, this is structural, and righteous anger about child abuse is being weaponised.



I see this stuff with my own eyes. But people want some kind of proof and that article points to some.


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## Rob Ray (Jun 4, 2018)

What stuff would that be? What's being proved in that article?


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> What stuff would that be? What's being proved in that article?



It points out the report that said social workers knew.


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## Rob Ray (Jun 4, 2018)

That doesn't answer either of my questions.


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## jusali (Jun 4, 2018)

OMFG my Father in Law 
Secretly sidles up alongside me with a fash vid about TR and starts crapping on about Muslims. We have had to say to him that we can't talk politics any more because he can't entertain any other concept other than rampant right wing views. It's distressing as he is constantly on our case about being lily liberals and socialists and always having a dig. It's so sad as my wife is constantly worrying that it's her fault somehow. Brexit split this nation right down the middle and it's torn this family apart


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> That doesn't answer either of my questions.



How’s about you put your intellectual prowess into working out how Robinson became a household name, and what we might do to counter it, and share your findings given you and others don’t like what I’ve had to say on the matter?


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## Rob Ray (Jun 4, 2018)

I've not been slagging you off here Magnus, I'm asking you to expand on what the article proves and what you've seen with you own eyes - you made an assertion, back it up. You seem to have some sort of problem, so say it outright, prove your theory and outline your solution (or at least desired outcome).

Edit: Also it's not rocket science how Tommy Robinson's been making hay, he latches onto moral panics and links them to easy targets using tropes honed and propagated by the mass media for as long as any of us have been alive. He's been successful enough at doing so that he's built up a useful core following of boneheads who back him up and echo his talking points, and powerful allies in the new far-right media giving him a global reach. There's thousands of petty (and not so petty) dictators who have done similar before him, often with far greater results.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> I've not been slagging you off here Magnus, I'm asking you to expand on what the article proves and what you've seen with you own eyes - you made an assertion, back it up. You seem to have some sort of problem, so say it outright, prove your theory and outline your solution (or at least desired outcome).



I’ve outlined my ‘theory’ earlier in the thread that the left’s refusal to have any kind of position on ‘grooming gangs’ has left it open for Robinson and co to present themselves as the only ones who care about the issue.
People then ask me to ‘prove’ this is the case which I’ve tried to do. But now I can’t be arsed. You know fine well that is the case unless you’ve spent the last few years holidaying on Mars. Those who do try and form a position on it are either attacked as racists or dismissed, which we can see playing out on this very thread.


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## Rob Ray (Jun 4, 2018)

The "left" (which bit?) has written copiously about grooming gangs, usually pointing out that 90% of paedophiles in Britain are white, and that Telford was not particularly about race or religion, but about a combination of institutional failure, lack of funding and authority figures just not giving much of a shit about poor kids when it might threaten their own careers - something which has occurred under all councils, left, right or centrist, since the days of Robert Tressell and long before.

What I'm trying to work out is what you think Telford "proves" about particular failures of the left. Do you disagree with the above analysis? Do you think the left should have jumped in to demand Muslims apologise for being paedo-prone to forestall Tommy and co. from capitalising on the right press's racist dog-whistling? What are you looking for? I've not called you a racist once here Magnus, but I am confused as to what you think the left needs to be doing.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 4, 2018)

jusali said:


> OMFG my Father in Law
> Secretly sidles up alongside me with a fash vid about TR and starts crapping on about Muslims. We have had to say to him that we can't talk politics any more because he can't entertain any other concept other than rampant right wing views. It's distressing as he is constantly on our case about being lily liberals and socialists and always having a dig. It's so sad as my wife is constantly worrying that it's her fault somehow. Brexit split this nation right down the middle and it's torn this family apart



That's awful.Does he actually know any Muslims, friends, co-workers?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’ve outlined my ‘theory’ earlier in the thread that the left’s refusal to have any kind of position on ‘grooming gangs’ has left it open for Robinson and co to present themselves as the only ones who care about the issue.
> People then ask me to ‘prove’ this is the case which I’ve tried to do. But now I can’t be arsed. You know fine well that is the case unless you’ve spent the last few years holidaying on Mars. Those who do try and form a position on it are either attacked as racists or dismissed, which we can see playing out on this very thread.


refusal's quite an active word, magnus. do you have anything with which to support it? something along the lines of a declaration by an individual or organisation that they decline to have a position, you know the sort of thing.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> The "left" (which bit?) has written copiously about grooming gangs, usually pointing out that 90% of paedophiles in Britain are white, and that Telford was not particularly about race or religion, but about a combination of institutional failure, lack of funding and authority figures just not giving much of a shit about poor kids when it might threaten their own careers - something which has occurred under all councils, left, right or centrist, since the days of Robert Tressell and long before.
> 
> What I'm trying to work out is what you think Telford "proves" about particular failures of the left. Do you disagree with the above analysis? Do you think the left should have jumped in to demand Muslims apologise for being paedo-prone to forestall Tommy and co. from capitalising on the right press's racist dog-whistling? What are you looking for? I've not called you a racist once here Magnus, but I am confused as to what you think the left needs to be doing.



There’s lots of examples but one in particular is when the right mobilise against ‘grooming gangs’ (a subject which appears to draw popular support) the left mobilises against it. 
I can see the temptation to not wanting fascists having a free stroll down the high street but it isn’t the best PR for a public wanting something to be done for offending that has gone on for years.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> refusal's quite an active word, magnus. do you have anything with which to support it? something along the lines of a declaration by an individual or organisation that they decline to have a position, you know the sort of thing.



Perhaps you could point to examples where the left do have positions on grooming gangs given your apparent astonishment that it’s somewhat lacking?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Perhaps you could point to examples where the left do have positions on grooming gangs given your apparent astonishment that it’s somewhat lacking?


perhaps you could answer the question: although you indicate an answer (in the negative) you might be explicit.

i don't know where you get the apparent astonishment it's lacking bit from, i agree with Rob Ray that it's something which has been extensively written about. i'm asking YOU to support YOUR claim that people have refused to have a position on it. not an omission, an actual refusal, a declaration that such a decision has been taken.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> perhaps you could answer the question: although you indicate an answer (in the negative) you might be explicit.



It’s difficult to prove a negative. So back to my question to you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’s difficult to prove a negative. So back to my question to you.


right. so you admit there hasn't been a refusal. i rest my case, m'lud


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> right. so you admit there hasn't been a refusal. i rest my case, m'lud



You haven’t submitted your evidence to the contrary. So all you’ve proven is a clumsy use of a word.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 4, 2018)

> when the right mobilise against ‘grooming gangs’ (a subject which appears to draw popular support) the left mobilises against it



So we deal with this in what way? Turn out a couple dozen old folks to say "bad things are indeed bad" and ignore Tommy? How far down that rabbit hole do we want to go, turn out every time there's a bottling on a Friday night to demand less of that sort of thing?

Robinson's tactics draw on opportunistically picking out events that he can frame as solvable by sorting out the "Muslim problem." Which they can't be, and he knows they can't, but it taps into the latent mistrust of Other in (sections of) the general public. He's not actually addressing paedophilia as a structural issue, just exploiting the frothy bits which he can fit into tabloid spectacle. It's a vile strategy which yes makes returns on Facebook but only by sacrificing the possibility of actual useful change.

But even were we to use that same morally repugnant approach, "get our hands dirty" by diverting the real needs of vulnerable young people into a cycle of political one-upmanship, it's still shit ground for us because "actually this is quite complicated and no-one, including the general public, comes out looking particularly good here" is a rubbish populist banner.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> So we deal with this in what way? Turn out a couple dozen old folks to say "bad things are indeed bad" and ignore Tommy? How far down that rabbit hole do we want to go, turn out every time there's a bottling on a Friday night to demand less of that sort of thing?
> 
> Robinson's tactics draw on opportunistically picking out events that he can frame as solvable by sorting out the "Muslim problem." Which they can't be, and he knows they can't, but it taps into the latent mistrust of Other in the general public. He's not actually addressing paedophilia as a structural issue, just exploiting the frothy bits which he can fit into tabloid spectacle. It's a vile strategy which yes makes returns on Facebook but only by sacrificing the possibility of actual useful change.
> 
> But even were we to use that same morally repugnant approach, "get our hands dirty" by diverting the real needs of vulnerable young people into a cycle of political one-upmanship, it's still shit ground for us because "actually this is quite complicated and no-one, including the general public, comes out looking particularly good here" is a rubbish populist banner.



It isn’t complicated. It’s an abuse of power by organised men against vulnerable, mostly working class girls. It’s absolutely perfect for the left to make noise about. That they tend to see it as taboo yet don’t have the same issue with Savile or Weinstein actually exposes their own racism.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’ve outlined my ‘theory’ earlier in the thread that the left’s refusal to have any kind of position on ‘grooming gangs’ has left it open for Robinson and co to present themselves as the only ones who care about the issue.


soz could you point me to the post where you outlined your 'theory'?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> soz could you point me to the post where you outlined your 'theory'?



You missed the scare quotes? I’ve made points, others have claimed it to be a theory.


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## Rob Ray (Jun 4, 2018)

Of course it's complicated. What communities did these people live in? Why did the media/political class react the way it did? What institutional changes can actually make a difference? What _cultural_ changes are needed, not just around the friendships and family circles the gang operated in but at the shops they went to, the social centres their mates frequented. And not just there, because paedophilia and silence about it is endemic all over Britain. Police disinterest in the problems of vulnerable/troubled/troublesome young women is endemic. Austerity cuts which undermine the ability of social services to do their job properly and defangs oversight bodies to prevent corruption is too.

And all this is layperson, top of the head stuff, I'm no expert in coming up with the right questions. Properly analysing and changing the situation involves looking at a kaleidoscope, while all Tommy has to do is single out a colour.

And that analysis is something the left has tried to do - the problem is that the kaleidoscope takes time and resources to work through, and saying "it's class, gimme a couple weeks and I'll show you" is not something that gets you a Daily Mail (or even a Daily MIrror) column the next day.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You missed the scare quotes? I’ve made points, others have claimed it to be a theory.


i'm not seeing you saying anything about the left's refusal before your post 369


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> Of course it's complicated. What communities did these people live in? Why did the media/political class react the way it did? What institutional changes can actually make a difference? What _cultural_ changes are needed, not just around the friendships and family circles the gang operated in but at the shops they went to, the social centres their mates frequented. And not just there, because paedophilia and silence about it is endemic all over Britain. Police disinterest in the problems of vulnerable/troubled/troublesome young women is endemic. Austerity cuts which undermine the ability of social services to do their job properly and defangs oversight bodies to prevent corruption is too.
> 
> And all this is layperson, top of the head stuff, I'm no expert in coming up with the right questions. Properly analysing and changing the situation involves looking at a kaleidoscope, while all Tommy has to do is single out a colour.
> 
> And this is something the left has tried to do - the problem is that the kaleidoscope takes time and resources to work through, and saying "it's class, gimme a couple weeks and I'll show you" is not something that gets you a Daily Mail (or even a Daily MIrror) column the next day.



Fair points.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm not seeing you saying anything about the left's refusal before your post 369



Must we do an autopsy on all my posts? From memory I spoke of the void Robinson moved into and how that might have come about.


----------



## jusali (Jun 4, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> That's awful.Does he actually know any Muslims, friends, co-workers?


 No he's classic Middle England Retiree.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Must we do an autopsy on all my posts? From memory I spoke of the void Robinson moved into and how that might have come about.


we're not doing doing an autopsy on all your posts. you said 'people refused', which i submit - and this isn't a pedantic point - is significantly different from 'the left refused'. in addition, in regard to telford, the mainstream media published almost nothing on the issue between 23 may 2013 (which was a brief paragraph in north wales daily post and south wales echo about a dispatches programme on the issue) and 11 march 2018, when the daily star carried a report.

the only exception i could find was several articles in the daily mirror in 2016. so, this refusal / omission / whatever, if it existed, was shared by virtually all the press of the country. any void you may perceive is due to there being so little about it in the press or tv, and searches for telford and abuse, or rape, or grooming reveal there are very few posts on the subject here. perhaps the vast majority of people here have no view on the subject, have taken no position on it.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 4, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’ve outlined my ‘theory’ earlier in the thread that the left’s refusal to have any kind of position on ‘grooming gangs’ has left it open for Robinson and co to present themselves as the only ones who care about the issue.
> People then ask me to ‘prove’ this is the case which I’ve tried to do. But now I can’t be arsed. You know fine well that is the case unless you’ve spent the last few years holidaying on Mars. Those who do try and form a position on it are either attacked as racists or dismissed, which we can see playing out on this very thread.


I don't think the left has "refused to have any kind of position on 'grooming gangs'" - they've just tended to take somewhat less of a hysterical view of the issue.

The reason that RW fuckwits like TR are able to do what they do is because whipping up hysterical reactions on the basis of at best broad-brush sweeping generalities, and at worst complete falsehood is always more newsworthy than carefully reasoned arguments challenging what gets touted as "common sense".


----------



## jusali (Jun 4, 2018)

I dunno about anyone else but this is very uncomfortable, it's like Germany in 30's only now we have a new religion/race to bash.
UK is becoming a very dark and racist environment and the far right is becoming more and more vocal.
I don't like it at all.......


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 4, 2018)

jusali said:


> I dunno about anyone else but this is very uncomfortable, it's like Germany in 30's only now we have a new religion/race to bash.
> UK is becoming a very dark and racist environment and the far right is becoming more and more vocal.
> I don't like it at all.......



It's certainly unpleasant, from what friends tell me, even in the last 15 months since I been away but that's quite a comparison to make. 

There's anger and scapegoating a minority, no doubt. But there's also a majority of decent people standing up to the shit that's happening. Maybe it's more like the 70s with the National Front and all those tossers?


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 4, 2018)

jusali said:


> I dunno about anyone else but this is very uncomfortable, it's like Germany in 30's only now we have a new religion/race to bash.
> UK is becoming a very dark and racist environment and the far right is becoming more and more vocal.
> I don't like it at all.......


Calm down. Jesus.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 4, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> Calm down. Jesus.


I don't think jusali's point was so hysterical as to warrant that response.

I imagine quite a lot of people were going around in 1920s Germany saying "FFS, it's only a bit of a nutter, and he does at least get the trains running on time. Calm down. Jesus."

Which is not to say that we're about to enter the UK equivalent of the Third Reich, but we've gone quite a long way down a rather nasty road by people dismissing Trumpism and the rise of the far right...who's to say where it might end if people don't start getting a bit aerated about it?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

jusali said:


> I dunno about anyone else but this is very uncomfortable, it's like Germany in 30's only now we have a new religion/race to bash.
> UK is becoming a very dark and racist environment and the far right is becoming more and more vocal.
> I don't like it at all.......


yeh. the germany in the 1930s thing's something of a cliche now. not to mention that we've not had things like the vast unemployment germany had in the 1930s, we don't have a government - like the final administrations of the weimar regime - governing by decree, we don't have a party like the nsdap waiting in the wings and doing increasingly well electorally etc etc etc ad nauseam. i've yet to see the banners declaring that the muslims are our misfortune etc. this is a new situation and auld tawdry analogies which serve more to obscure than illuminate aren't helpful.


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 4, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I don't think jusali's point was so hysterical as to warrant that response.
> 
> I imagine quite a lot of people were going around in 1920s Germany saying "FFS, it's only a bit of a nutter, and he does at least get the trains running on time. Calm down. Jesus."
> 
> Which is not to say that we're about to enter the UK equivalent of the Third Reich, but we've gone quite a long way down a rather nasty road by people dismissing Trumpism and the rise of the far right...who's to say where it might end if people don't start getting a bit aerated about it?


People have been 'aerated' to fuck since the morning it became clear Trump had won. Fourth Reich no nearer yet.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I don't think jusali's point was so hysterical as to warrant that response.
> 
> I imagine quite a lot of people were going around in 1920s Germany saying "FFS, it's only a bit of a nutter, and he does at least get the trains running on time. Calm down. Jesus."
> 
> Which is not to say that we're about to enter the UK equivalent of the Third Reich, but we've gone quite a long way down a rather nasty road by people dismissing Trumpism and the rise of the far right...who's to say where it might end if people don't start getting a bit aerated about it?


quite. but what about people in the 1930s in germany?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2018)

jusali said:


> No he's classic Middle England Retiree.



G*mmon?


----------



## jusali (Jun 4, 2018)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> G*mmon?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 4, 2018)

I think comparisons to the situation after Weimar are truly unhelpful- perfidious Albion managed to emerge through the torrid revolution filled first half of the European 20th century with its core power structures unscathed- if anything, we would seem to be less likely to go down that route in the 21st century.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

jusali said:


> I dunno about anyone else but this is very uncomfortable, it's like Germany in 30's only now we have a new religion/race to bash.
> UK is becoming a very dark and racist environment and the far right is becoming more and more vocal.
> I don't like it at all.......


the day after derek beackon was elected in 1993 i went down the way and got a copy of the first volume of noakes' collection of documents about the nazis, about the rise of the nazis. in retrospect i think my desire to see how any attempt to replicate the 1920s rise of the nsdap might be countered was somewhat hysterical.  but i found nothing in the book, nor in other books about the nazis and their road to power, which has helped me understand how to better oppose the far right in a 1990s (or 2000s or 2010s) context in the uk. the history of fascism in this country is really rather different from that in germany or italy in the interwar years and so comparisons to a period before the calamity of the second world war in another country where the political context was vastly different don't help. we are not going to become a national socialist country under the likes of nigel farage or any of the panoply of would-be fuhrers. while i understand and appreciate your concern, i suggest you're over-egging this particular pudding.


----------



## jusali (Jun 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. the germany in the 1930s thing's something of a cliche now. not to mention that we've not had things like the vast unemployment germany had in the 1930s, we don't have a government - like the final administrations of the weimar regime - governing by decree, we don't have a party like the nsdap waiting in the wings and doing increasingly well electorally etc etc etc ad nauseam. i've yet to see the banners declaring that the muslims are our misfortune etc. this is a new situation and auld tawdry analogies which serve more to obscure than illuminate aren't helpful.


Thanks for the history lesson, maybe 1930's Germany was a bit much of a generalisation. Too easy to see patterns that aren't quite as clear as they first appear perhaps. Now gotta walk back to the boat on the lake, the disciples are waiting!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

jusali said:


> Thanks for the history lesson, maybe 1930's Germany was a bit much of a generalisation. Too easy to see patterns that aren't quite as clear as they first appear perhaps. Now gotta walk back to the boat on the lake, the disciples are waiting!


alright for some, messing about in boats


----------



## jusali (Jun 4, 2018)

It's OK if you can walk on water


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 4, 2018)

I think that there's nothing wrong with being worried about what's happening. But comparisons to the rise of nazis is quite a leap.

That said, there were a lot of cunts about then and there's a lot about now, so I can understand concerns.


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 4, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> I think that there's nothing wrong with being worried about what's happening. But comparisons to the rise of nazis is quite a leap.
> 
> That said, there were a lot of cunts about then and there's a lot about now, so I can understand concerns.


There will always be cunts about. World is made of cunts.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 4, 2018)

I suppose it's not so much about comparisons, as in saying "we are going down the same road as Germany did", as looking at what might be parallels.

I find it worrying, for example, that, in setting themselves such a high bar for controlling immigration, the Tories (and, to an extent, new Labour before them) have succeeded in enacting legislation that was so toxic, particularly to identifiable racial groupings, that they're now having to face the prospect of dismantling it. Which I dare say they will, but only half-heartedly - note Javid's "no safe space for terrorists" face-saving bluster today.

And the problem is that, when governments set themselves unrealistic targets and approaches for controlling immigration, they start to make the wilder rantings of the far right, and people like Tommy Robinson, look mainstream.

Similarly, when they eviscerate the machinery of state that deals with policing, social services, child protection, healthcare, etc., etc., to the extent that they have, they make it harder for victims (particularly those in less socially charming positions) to access help, and easier for those who would perpetrate crimes against them. Which, again, provides lots of handy fuel for the fires that the likes of TR are only to happy to fan.

I imagine that many Tories would recoil in horror at the notion that what they are doing is fostering the rise of racism and discrimination, but at the same time would continue to argue that they have to do it in order to achieve their (to them) perfectly laudable aims, and the ones they'd claim they were voted in to achieve.-


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 4, 2018)

Fear mongering about  "them" abusing "our" women is a sure fire way of whipping up a hate campaign against any group you wish to demonize (the lozells riot in 2005 between caribbean and south asian communities was sparked by exactly this sort of shit stirring - Lozells 2005: Race, rumours and rioting ).
   Its plays straight into the macho self image of "defending your womenfolk" - providing a moral justification for wanner be hardmen to do the self-righteous aggro thing, whilst chiming with pre-existing prejudices. Yaxley-Lennon is playing this for all it worth - and with a worrying degree of success. If you oppose this view - well then you are are soft on islamic (i.e "paki") nonces raping our girls. 
And yes - it is very worrying and yes it is straight out of the goebbels playbook. There are many people out there who are not fash but will say stuff like "well - i definitely think he has a point" and "hes is being silenced for pointing out the truth" . His imprisonment his going to played for all its worth - and the real reasons for it will be buried behind a shit storm of social media generated bullshit.
Im sure that's exactly what YL was expecting when he took his web cam to leeds crown court - although he may have been surprised by the rapidity with which he was sentenced and the amount of time he now has on his hands.
Many aspects of his arrest and charging have played straight into the hands of the far right paranoir merchants - they should have seen this coming and maybe remanded him on bail until after the grooming court cases were dealt with and then thrown the book at him.
How to counter it? I think focusing on the racist motives behind the far rights colonisation of this issue - the fact they have nonces within their own ranks, the fact that they are not remotely interested in any other areas of child protection or sexual assault and the fact that Yaxley Lennon is undermining court cases against nonces as a racist publicity stunt.


----------



## JimW (Jun 4, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> People have been 'aerated' to fuck since the morning it became clear Trump had won. Fourth Reich no nearer yet.


Well, technically we are bit closer even if it's two hundred years off.
/smartarse


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

existentialist said:


> And the problem is that, when governments set themselves unrealistic targets and approaches for controlling immigration, they start to make the wilder rantings of the far right, and people like Tommy Robinson, look mainstream.


much of the reason things like a tougher immigration policy were enacted by nl, the coalition and the current shower of shite was an attempt to prevent votes being lost to the bnp and ukip.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

jusali said:


> It's OK if you can walk on water


reminds me of the lovely auld hymn, are you drinking with me jesus? and in particular the line 'i know you can walk on the water but can you walk on this much beer'


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 4, 2018)

And speaking of trivialising stuff - news just in

Anger over 'Nazis just bird poo' remark


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 4, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> And speaking of trivialising stuff - news just in
> 
> Anger over 'Nazis just bird poo' remark


Another "detail of history."


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2018)

Comparisons with The Third Reich are destined to sound OTT. 

Comparisons with fascism in general need not.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 4, 2018)

Latest TR related post from my #1 FB loon


“To those who believe the Psy-op that is the arrest of Robinson, I would just say, he is a self proclaimed Zionist. And what is their motto? By deception thou will do war.

None of this is new, its old hat and for your information,I remind you of the Book, The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, translated in 1897. 
Section XV111 Arrest of Opponents.
 " When it becomes necessary for us to strengthen the strict measures of secret defense ( the most fatal poison for the prestige of authority) we shall arrange a simulation of disorders or some manifestation of discontents finding expression through the COOPERATION of good speakers.
 Round these speakers will assemble all who are sympathetic to his utterances. This will give the pretext for domiciliary prerequisites and surveillance on the part of our servants from the number of Goyim police".
You are being played like a fiddle, once again.”


----------



## bimble (Jun 4, 2018)

Section XV111? 
I've just pulled out my copy and it doest even have sections, just y'know the 24 protocols.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 4, 2018)

I do not have a protocols to hand.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

bimble said:


> Section XV111?
> I've just pulled out my copy and it doest even have sections, just y'know the 24 protocols.


What's number 18 say?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> I do not have a protocols to hand.


What's the protocol for that?


----------



## bimble (Jun 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> What's number 18 say?


You're right! There it is. 
 etc


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> What's the protocol for that?



Blame a shadowy cabal for hiding it, probably?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 4, 2018)

last one for today, apologies in advance for the use of Jews in this pejorative way. I think Lisa Mckenzie touches on the use on conspira-lunacy stuff like this doing the rounds . I am C&P to take the piss out of this - but it does have a surprising number of adherents it would seem




_"Tommy Robinson, self proclaimed Zionist attended a rally called " Stop Islamization of Nations" or SION,organised by Jews
His name is a pseudonym as everyone knows.

But does everyone know that ROBINSON is an anagram of BORN SION ?
It is so in your face.

What better way to take the piss than to stand in front of a banner with SION plastered on it?
Origin and Etymology of Zion
Middle English Sion, from Old English, citadel in Palestine which was the nucleus of Jerusalem, from Late Latin, from Greek Seiōn, from Hebrew Ṣīyōn.

 Did you know that Mr Lennons recent "court appearance" at Leeds crown court was listed under his pseudonym Tommy Robinson ! Prima facie evidence that this is a psy-op."_


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## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

bimble said:


> You're right! There it is.
> View attachment 137200 etc


XVIII is 18 in roman numerals


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## not-bono-ever (Jun 4, 2018)

clever!


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## bimble (Jun 4, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> XVIII is 18 in roman numerals


You are clever. its all the 1's that fooled me.


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## Whagwan (Jun 4, 2018)

I can never understand why the conspiraloons think that if you were hiding something you'd just make an anagram out of it, likewise all the 'secret' symbols...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

Whagwan said:


> I can never understand why the conspiraloons think that if you were hiding something you'd just make an anagram out of it, likewise all the 'secret' symbols...


You wouldn't believe the 'loonery hidden in whagwan's anagram


----------



## JimW (Jun 4, 2018)

Have any of you noticed how much the Internet relies on various _protocols_?


----------



## bemused (Jun 4, 2018)

Whagwan said:


> I can never understand why the conspiraloons think that if you were hiding something you'd just make an anagram out of it, likewise all the 'secret' symbols...



Or the fact that almost a year ago he was convicted of crime sentenced to 3 months and the court decided to suspend it. I assume the judge hadn't read his secret briefing and seemed to forget the maximum sentence is two years.

I had this discussion with someone who said they stitched him up because what he was saying because it was all in the public domain. When I asked him if Tommy live streaming the defendants entering the court and having an argument with them on steps would be something a reasonable person would consider breaking a reporting restriction - he didn't have an opinion other than it was too complicated for me to understand.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2018)

bemused said:


> Or the fact that almost a year ago he was convicted of crime sentenced to 3 months and the court decided to suspend it. I assume the judge hadn't read his secret briefing and seemed to forget the maximum sentence is two years.
> 
> I had this discussion with someone who said they stitched him up because what he was saying because it was all in the public domain. When I asked him if Tommy live streaming the defendants entering the court and having an argument with them on steps would be something a reasonable person would consider breaking a reporting restriction - he didn't have an opinion other than it was too complicated for me to understand.


((((bemused)))) have a pity like


----------



## Poi E (Jun 4, 2018)

Attempts at FLA demonstrations in Scotland have been a dismal failure, by all accounts. How long before the FLA starts explicitly riding a wave of English nationalism, as opposed to the rather hollow British bulldog they march with?


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## not-bono-ever (Jun 4, 2018)

england winning the WC would be a start. lolz


----------



## Poi E (Jun 4, 2018)

They think it's all over


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 4, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Attempts at FLA demonstrations in Scotland have been a dismal failure, by all accounts. How long before the FLA starts explicitly riding a wave of English nationalism, as opposed to the rather hollow British bulldog they march with?


Seems I was wrong about the DFLA's/TR fanclub's ability to capitalise on the free publicity ahead of Saturday's march in Manchester. All the reports are it was under 2000 and mostly the usual suspects behaving in the usual ways. Not that this is a good thing - significantly more of them than we'd seen for a couple of years before the advent of the FLA, but still a decline from recent outings.


----------



## billbond (Jun 5, 2018)

19force8 said:


> Seems I was wrong about the DFLA's/TR fanclub's ability to capitalise on the free publicity ahead of Saturday's march in Manchester. All the reports are it was under 2000 and mostly the usual suspects behaving in the usual ways. Not that this is a good thing - significantly more of them than we'd seen for a couple of years before the advent of the FLA, but still a decline from recent outings.



I read it was a lot more than that
fake news perhaps


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 5, 2018)

billbond said:


> I read it was a lot more than that
> fake news perhaps


1500 max


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 5, 2018)

the have a march on leeds on 7th July. oh. joy. 

do we know where  the fuckwit doing his porridge?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 5, 2018)

Hull nick


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 5, 2018)

http://newsthump.com/2018/05/29/for...ends-first-night-in-prison-converts-to-islam/



> *Former EDL leader Tommy Robinson spends first night in prison, converts to Islam*




The comments at the bottom from his divvy racist supporters are mint.


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 5, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> the have a march on leeds on 7th July. oh. joy.
> 
> do we know where  the fuckwit doing his porridge?


Bit out of my manor, but this:

Arson attacks on mosque and gurdwara in Leeds after Tommy Robinson supporters march


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 5, 2018)

Sikhs ? the Sikhs have always been lionised by the rightists ( "Sikh lads") and held up as some kind of badge of non racism...oh dear, someone isn't on message here


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## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> Sikhs ? the Sikhs have always been lionised by the rightists ( "Sikh lads") and held up as some kind of badge of non racism...oh dear, someone isn't getting the message here


i remember the time the sikhs and antifa both turned up at trafalgar square to oppose the uba. didn't see the uba lionising them that day.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 5, 2018)

Yep - its a relatively recent adoption I think- some element of mutual benefit  for those ( few) involved
eta but know this obvs


----------



## Cloo (Jun 5, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> last one for today, apologies in advance for the use of Jews in this pejorative way. I think Lisa Mckenzie touches on the use on conspira-lunacy stuff like this doing the rounds . I am C&P to take the piss out of this - but it does have a surprising number of adherents it would seem
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Love the way all these conspirators conveniently involve anagrams that vaguely sound like something associated with them.


----------



## TremulousTetra (Jun 7, 2018)

thought this was an interesting article on the whole affair.

Dan Hannan: The real story, and why Tommy Robinson belongs in prison


----------



## Poi E (Jun 7, 2018)

Sorry, but that cunt is just worried about the appeal of Robinson over his favourite bunch of right wing nut jobs.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2018)

TremulousTetra said:


> thought this was an interesting article on the whole affair.
> 
> Dan Hannan: The real story, and why Tommy Robinson belongs in prison


Why?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2018)

19force8 said:


> Bit out of my manor, but this:
> 
> Arson attacks on mosque and gurdwara in Leeds after Tommy Robinson supporters march


Do you have a more reputable source? What's wrong with the Yorkshire Evening Post?


----------



## bemused (Jun 7, 2018)

TremulousTetra said:


> thought this was an interesting article on the whole affair.
> 
> Dan Hannan: The real story, and why Tommy Robinson belongs in prison



This bit rings true:



> Maybe I’m being cynical, but doesn’t it strike you as likely that, in deliberately violating that court order, Robinson was aiming to achieve precisely the outcome he has now achieved? That he was seeking to provoke a criminal conviction that would turn him into a “free speech martyr” and — let’s not beat about the bush — boost his earnings on the American speaker circuit?



Although I assume as a convicted criminal they may not let him in.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2018)

bemused said:


> This bit rings true:


I think he has rather more parochial concerns in mind. Would someone of his considerable criminal record be eligible for a united states visa?


----------



## Poi E (Jun 7, 2018)

Dan would know about the speaker circuit.


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## bemused (Jun 7, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> I think he has rather more parochial concerns in mind. Would someone of his considerable criminal record be eligible for a united states visa?



I think his fraud conviction would be a problem. Although I'm sure he's ranking in cash over the Internet.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2018)

bemused said:


> I think his fraud conviction would be a problem. Although I'm sure he's ranking in cash over the Internet.


Yes he's a ranker


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 7, 2018)

Isn’t this what Proceeds of Crime legislation is for?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Isn’t this what Proceeds of Crime legislation is for?


Athos can help you with this one


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 7, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> I think he has rather more parochial concerns in mind. Would someone of his considerable criminal record be eligible for a united states visa?



He won't ever get back in after he did on someone else’s passport Shirley?

Unless he used someone else's passport again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2018)

Ranbay said:


> He won't ever get back in after he did on someone else’s passport Shirley?
> 
> Unless he used someone else's passport again.


well he can't for the foreseeable future so we can indulge in uninformed speculation, our favourite pastime


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 7, 2018)

Sure Trump could be persuaded to pardon him for the passport offence.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 7, 2018)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Sure Trump could be persuaded to pardon him for the passport offence.


tr not convicted in an american court


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 7, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> tr not convicted in an american court


And your point is?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2018)

19force8 said:


> And your point is?


only a legal one


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 7, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Do you have a more reputable source? What's wrong with the Yorkshire Evening Post?


As I said, out of my manor.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2018)

19force8 said:


> As I said, out of my manor.


yeh but SOCIALIST WORKER? for shame


----------



## 19force8 (Jun 7, 2018)

None whatsoever


----------



## Athos (Jun 7, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Athos can help you with this one



Not sure I understood the question.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2018)

Athos said:


> Not sure I understood the question.


could the proceeds of crime act be used to take money from stephen yaxley-lennon?


----------



## Athos (Jun 7, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> could the proceeds of crime act be used to take money from stephen yaxley-lennon?



Not sure I'd want to speculate on his case in particular.  But, generally, unless someone can be shown to live a criminal lifestyle (in terms of their finances), the only thing that can be confiscated is stuff that can be shown to be benefit derived directly from a particular offence.


----------



## LDC (Jun 8, 2018)

There's plans for a 'Free Speech/Free Tommy Robinson' (not sure of the exact 'branding' they're using atm) demo in Leeds on Saturday 7th July.

Discussion around what to do about this among antifascists is ongoing...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 8, 2018)

There’s also one planned for tomorrow on Whitehall, after Trooping the Colour.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> There's plans for a 'Free Speech/Free Tommy Robinson' (not sure of the exact 'branding' they're using atm) demo in Leeds on Saturday 7th July.
> 
> Discussion around what to do about this among antifascists is ongoing...


Can you please post it here if there's going to be any action? Will come along and counter demo if that's happening


----------



## andysays (Jun 8, 2018)

Orang Utan said:


> Can you please post it here if there's going to be any action? Will come along and counter demo if that's happening



What exactly would the point of a counter-demo be, in your opinion?


----------



## LDC (Jun 8, 2018)

andysays said:


> What exactly would the point of a counter-demo be, in your opinion?



I think that's the thing that (some) people are struggling with, yet they don't really want to let it happen with no opposition. I fear the response is likely going to be a small counter-demo shouting 'fascists' at anyone that turns up on the other event.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 8, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> There's plans for a 'Free Speech/Free Tommy Robinson' (not sure of the exact 'branding' they're using atm) demo in Leeds on Saturday 7th July.
> 
> Discussion around what to do about this among antifascists is ongoing...


organise a seperate demo against grooming and the appalling response from the Councils and Police services


----------



## andysays (Jun 8, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> I think that's the thing that (some) people are struggling with, yet they don't really want to let it happen with no opposition. I fear the response is likely going to be a small counter-demo shouting 'fascists' at anyone that turns up on the other event.



That's what I fear too. I can't see how that will do anything other than confirm the feelings of anyone likely to be attracted to such a demo that Robinson really is a free speech martyr and the victim of leftie political correctness gone mad etc.

Still interested to hear from OU or anyone else likely to support such a counter-demo though.


----------



## Athos (Jun 8, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> I think that's the thing that (some) people are struggling with, yet they don't really want to let it happen with no opposition. I fear the response is likely going to be a small counter-demo shouting 'fascists' at anyone that turns up on the other event.



Also, them positioning it a 'free speech' demo to label any counter-demo as 'anti free speech' makes an own goal more likely.

Maybe a show of strength by a united local community to express their anger at TR's  criminal conduct having very nearly jeopardised this prosecution for his own agenda/self- aggrandisement.

Plus, of course some of the usual more 'robust' tactics, outside of any static counter-demo.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 8, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> organise a seperate demo against grooming and the appalling response from the Councils and Police services


Grooming issue has already been weaponised by the far right.. for the left to do the same in a counteraction isnt right I dont think. Yes there needs to be more real dialogue and confronting of the issues rather than just shouting abuse, but I don't think that is the way to do it. It would look cynical imo


----------



## Athos (Jun 8, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Grooming issue has already been weaponised by the far right.. for the left to do the same in a counteraction isnt right I dont think. Yes there needs to be more real dialogue and confronting of the issues rather than just shouting abuse, but I don't think that is the way to do it. It would look cynical imo



Yes, it would look contrived and opportunist to have one on the same day.  The time for mass street protests by the left in respect of this issue has passed, as an opportunity largely missed, which allowed the right to position itself as the ones who care/are brave enough to speak the truth.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 8, 2018)

Athos said:


> Yes, it would look contrived and opportunist to have one on the same day.  The time for mass street protests by the left in respect of this issue has passed, as an opportunity largely missed, which allowed the right to position itself as the ones who care/are brave enough to speak the truth.



Look out! You’ll be accused of being a Robinson supporter.


----------



## LDC (Jun 8, 2018)

Athos said:


> Yes, it would look contrived and opportunist to have one on the same day.  The time for mass street protests by the left in respect of this issue has passed, as an opportunity largely missed, which allowed the right to position itself as the ones who care/are brave enough to speak the truth.



Would you suggest ignoring this demo then, letting it go ahead with no response on the street?


----------



## Athos (Jun 8, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Would you suggest ignoring this demo then, letting it go ahead with no response on the street?



No.  I'd be more inclined to try to get the message accross to anyone who'dlisten the real reason for TR's arrest i.e. that he nearly caused a tril to collapse, becuase he's really more interested in demonising muslims than helping victims of sexual abuse.


----------



## newbie (Jun 8, 2018)

Athos said:


> The time for mass street protests by the left in respect of this issue has passed, as an opportunity largely missed


Opportunity for what? A position alongside racists, or perhaps one which they can join, making 'the left' (whatever that means in the context) look very muddled? At least a counterdemo rejecting his/their racist interpretation of events is clear.


----------



## Athos (Jun 8, 2018)

newbie said:


> Opportunity for what? A position alongside racists, or perhaps one which they can join, making 'the left' (whatever that means in the context) look very muddled? At least a counterdemo rejecting his/their racist interpretation of events is clear.



No, the opportunity to focus people' rightful anger on the correct targets - the authorities who allowed this to happen, rather than all muslims!


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## newbie (Jun 8, 2018)

Athos said:


> No, the opportunity to focus people' rightful anger on the correct targets - the authorities who allowed this to happen, rather than all muslims!


with some magic formula to keep racists away and marginalise their simplistic narratives?  I don't see how you'd achieve that.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 8, 2018)

newbie said:


> with some magic formula to keep racists away and marginalise their simplistic narratives?  I don't see how you'd achieve that.



By making progressive arguments instead of reactionary ones?


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## andysays (Jun 8, 2018)

Athos said:


> Yes, it would look contrived and opportunist to have one on the same day.  The time for mass street protests by the left in respect of this issue has passed, as an opportunity largely missed, which allowed the right to position itself as the ones who care/are brave enough to speak the truth.



If 'the left' have allowed 'the right' to position itself as the ones who care/are brave enough to speak the truth it isn't because they didn't attempt to organise mass street protests in respect of this particular issue, it's unfortunately a rather more deep-rooted and long term problem which all the demos and counter demos in the world will do nothing to solve.


----------



## newbie (Jun 8, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> By making progressive arguments instead of reactionary ones?


yes I get that bit.  But you call a demo outside the town hall and produce some leaflets and banners making those progressive arguments and a bunch of EDL/FLAers turn up with union jacks and handing out leaflets demonising Muslims.  Fisticuffs may or may not ensue, but either way 'the left' looks muddled and their progressive message is tainted.


----------



## Athos (Jun 8, 2018)

andysays said:


> If 'the left' have allowed 'the right' to position itself as the ones who care/are brave enough to speak the truth it isn't because they didn't attempt to organise mass street protests in respect of this particular issue, it's unfortunately a rather more deep-rooted and long term problem which all the demos and counter demos in the world will do nothing to solve.



I agree that the failure to hold demos about this issue isn't the whole of the problem, but that doesn't mean that holding the right demos at the right time couldn't have been part of the answer.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 8, 2018)

Athos said:


> I agree that the failure to hold demos about this issue isn't the whole of the problem, but that doesn't mean that holding the right demos at the right time couldn't have been part of the answer.



Well there have been demos, but they’re mostly to oppose the far right ones. Which is a PR disaster for ‘the left’ as doing that can easily be painted as being in support of nonces.


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## Red Sky (Jun 8, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> organise a seperate demo against grooming and the appalling response from the Councils and Police services



Go on then.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2018)

newbie said:


> yes I get that bit.  But you call a demo outside the town hall and produce some leaflets and banners making those progressive arguments and a bunch of EDL/FLAers turn up with union jacks and handing out leaflets demonising Muslims.  Fisticuffs may or may not ensue, but either way 'the left' looks muddled and their progressive message is tainted.


Call a demo against nonces and perverts and bedeck the town hall in images of fascist paedos


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 8, 2018)

there is a counter demo leeds and there absolutely needs to be one and it needs to be as big as possible. We cant let the far right go unopposed - and a counter demo - at the very least - highlights that there is a counter narrative (i.e. that tommy robinson is opportunistic, racist scumbag exploiting these horrible crimes for his own agenda - and that his actions were a publicity stunt that could have led to the trials collapsing).
It will also mean that the police will take steps to curtail the route and scope of the "free tommy" march and police it more heavily - likely resulting in lots of angry, knuckle dragging, fash types shouting abuse on the news, which kind of undermines any attempt by them to portray it as a broad coalition of concerned citizens.
And primarily - i don't want those cunts being given a free reign to take over the streets of my home town.


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## newbie (Jun 8, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Call a demo against nonces and perverts and bedeck the town hall in images of fascist paedos


ok, that seems workable, except that it doesn't address the precise issue that posters appear to want to organise demonstations about.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 8, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> there is a counter demo leeds and there absolutely needs to be one and it needs to be as big as possible. We cant let the far right go unopposed - and a counter demo - at the very least - highlights that there is a counter narrative (i.e. that tommy robinson is opportunistic, racist scumbag exploiting these horrible crimes for his own agenda - and that his actions were a publicity stunt that could have led to the trials collapsing).
> It will also mean that the police will take steps to curtail the route and scope of the "free tommy" march and police it more heavily - likely resulting in lots of angry, knuckle dragging, fash types shouting abuse on the news, which kind of undermines any attempt by them to portray it as a broad coalition of concerned citizens.
> And primarily - i don't want those cunts being given a free reign to take over the streets of my home town.



It will also convince the non-fascists involved that the left are against them so the enemy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2018)

newbie said:


> ok, that seems workable, except that it doesn't address the precise issue that posters appear to want to organise demonstations about.


Put the boot on the other foot for a change, let's see fascists defending nonces


----------



## LDC (Jun 8, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> there is a counter demo leeds and there absolutely needs to be one and it needs to be as big as possible. We cant let the far right go unopposed - and a counter demo - at the very least - highlights that there is a counter narrative (i.e. that tommy robinson is opportunistic, racist scumbag exploiting these horrible crimes for his own agenda - and that his actions were a publicity stunt that could have led to the trials collapsing).
> It will also mean that the police will take steps to curtail the route and scope of the "free tommy" march and police it more heavily - likely resulting in lots of angry, knuckle dragging, fash types shouting abuse on the news, which kind of undermines any attempt by them to portray it as a broad coalition of concerned citizens.
> And primarily - i don't want those cunts being given a free reign to take over the streets of my home town.



Do you think the demographic of these demos is even mainly far right and fascist/fascist sympathizers though? They're not far right demos largely from what I see of them - although of course some of them turn up. I'm of mixed opinion, I feel uncomfortable about no response, but my recent experience of counter demos to things like this is that they're not largely about confronting the far right at all, more about shouting incoherent abuse at a bewildered mix of people.


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## Red Sky (Jun 8, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Do you think the demographic of these demos is even mainly far right and fascist/fascist sympathizers though? They're not far right demos largely from what I see of them - although of course some of them turn up. I'm of mixed opinion, I feel uncomfortable about no response, but my recent experience of counter demos to things like this is that they're not largely about confronting the far right at all, more about shouting incoherent abuse at a bewildered mix of people.



People seem unable to deviate from the standard counter demo model. At this stage of the game taking the piss out of the increasingly bizarre "Cult of Tommy" would be far more productive.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 8, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Do you think the demographic of these demos is even mainly far right and fascist/fascist sympathizers though? They're not far right demos largely from what I see of them - although of course some of them turn up. I'm of mixed opinion, I feel uncomfortable about no response, but my recent experience of counter demos to things like this is that they're not largely about confronting the far right at all, more about shouting incoherent abuse at a bewildered mix of people.


I do tbh. Anything focused on TR is going to draw mostly to all fash. The FLA connection is a distraction - it’s not like the first couple of FLA marches (which were definitely not all or even mostly far right, though had a lot of far right speakers). A key point made by a lot of people was “we don’t want to turn into the EDL mk 2” and now it has, the constituency has changed as you can see by the numbers.


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## LDC (Jun 8, 2018)

Tommy masks for all and piss-taking clowning about for the counter demo then?


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## Red Sky (Jun 8, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Tommy masks for all and piss-taking clowning about for the counter demo then?



An effigy of Tommy in chains astride a giant gammon.  He is our Lord and his touch will heal the sick .


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 8, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> People seem unable to deviate from the standard counter demo model. At this stage of the game taking the piss out of the increasingly bizarre "Cult of Tommy" would be far more productive.



That’s a viable position. And not counter productive like a counter demo might be.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 8, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Do you think the demographic of these demos is even mainly far right and fascist/fascist sympathizers though? They're not far right demos largely from what I see of them - although of course some of them turn up. I'm of mixed opinion, I feel uncomfortable about no response, but my recent experience of counter demos to things like this is that they're not largely about confronting the far right at all, more about shouting incoherent abuse at a bewildered mix of people.



judging by the 200plus baboons who marched unopposed through the city centre last week demanding the freeing of tommy - then yeah, its the same lot who used to  turn out for the EDL - aggro, macho, white blokes in the late 30s and older with lots of st georges flags. Amongst them will be hard core fash - the rest are various shades of bigoted fellow travellers and wanner-be hard men full of puffed up self righteousness.
We've had a mosque and a sikh centre attacked in the past week and today enormous swastickers have been daubed on walls in harehills. a large unopposed march will be seen as a victory for the far right and will encourage them (indeed this march is being built on the back of the unopposed flash mob one last week). Im pretty sure the fash will be seeing this as a real opportunity and they have long had a (relatively) large presence in west yorkshire. Im guessing they will be bussing in supporters from other parts of the north - and anti fascists need to do the same. I def think there is a high probability of aggro.


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## The39thStep (Jun 9, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Go on then.


Keep on keeping on


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## The39thStep (Jun 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> That’s a viable position. And not counter productive like a counter demo might be.


Its only a viable position if the aim is to tread water.After that its lets hope it all dies down , the problem goes away and we can get back to bash the fash. Problem is ,to quote Hunter S Thompson,  'once the toothpaste has been squeezed out its kinda hard to get back in'


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 9, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Its only a viable position if the aim is to tread water.After that its lets hope it all dies down , the problem goes away and we can get back to bash the fash. Problem is ,to quote Hunter S Thompson,  'once the toothpaste has been squeezed out its kinda hard to get back in'



"Treading water" or "holding the ring" is where we're at. That's what anti fascism is. A defensive move for the wider left.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jun 9, 2018)

Could counter-demonstrations seem to overly back the odd legal system and the rule of law? They might seem to position the left as defenders of how contempt of court works in its details. Which may well  be better than seeming to back the defendants in the trial that TR was 'reporting' but it's still an odd place for the left to be. 

Too nuanced for me to explain properly, I'm afraid: 

 I'm all for denying the streets to fascists but clarifying that while one is 'against' them on a broad principle, one is not 'for' what they're 'against' on this occasion, at least not in the specifics of how TR was banged up on a judge's say-so, but yes on how he prejudiced a fair trial for his own ends. He should have been tried, found guilty by jury if possible and sentenced, which would have been more difficult for the fash to have a go at. The apparent martyrdom of someone locked up without a court process for 'free speech' plays right into their hands.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 9, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> "Treading water" or "holding the ring" is where we're at. That's what anti fascism is. A defensive move for the wider left.


Can you try and explain what 'a defensive move for the wider left' means in practise at the present moment please.


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## treefrog (Jun 9, 2018)

Apparently there was a pro-Tommy Robinson demo in Aotea Square, Auckland this afternoon  Seems weird as we have enough white male far-right twattocks of our own without needing to co-opt yours. 

Sizeable counter-demo across the road calling out the bullshit though


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## Athos (Jun 9, 2018)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Could counter-demonstrations seem to overly back the odd legal system and the rule of law? They might seem to position the left as defenders of how contempt of court works in its details. Which may well  be better than seeming to back the defendants in the trial that TR was 'reporting' but it's still an odd place for the left to be.
> 
> Too nuanced for me to explain properly, I'm afraid:
> 
> I'm all for denying the streets to fascists but clarifying that while one is 'against' them on a broad principle, one is not 'for' what they're 'against' on this occasion, at least not in the specifics of how TR was banged up on a judge's say-so, but yes on how he prejudiced a fair trial for his own ends. He should have been tried, found guilty by jury if possible and sentenced, which would have been more difficult for the fash to have a go at. The apparent martyrdom of someone locked up without a court process for 'free speech' plays right into their hands.



There was a court process. The ordinary one for cases of this kind.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Tommy masks for all and piss-taking clowning about for the counter demo then?


Placards with Elton John out of 'tommy' with a tr mask on. Or vice versa, tr with an Elton John mask on


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 9, 2018)

Don't know whether to laugh or cry at free tommy. A colleague /Facebook friend is right into it.


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## JuanTwoThree (Jun 9, 2018)

Athos said:


> There was a court process. The ordinary one for cases of this kind.


But would I approve of it whoever the guilty person was? One judge gets to decide. Aamer Anwar got off on the say-so of one person. It'd be a touching faith in our legal system to say that the process is a fair one.

The gagging order on The Guardian in the Trifigura story was legal. They weren't allowed to even mention that there was one, or that it was being debated in Parliament. That was a court process too.

It involves some mental somersaults to back a bourgeois court system on one occasion and be against it on others. It's not impossible, I think I can manage it,  but it's difficult to explain to people.


----------



## Athos (Jun 9, 2018)

JuanTwoThree said:


> But would I approve of it whoever the guilty person was? One judge gets to decide. Aamer Anwar got off on the say-so of one person. It'd be a touching faith in our legal system to say that the process is a fair one.
> 
> The gagging order on The Guardian in the Trifigura story was legal. They weren't allowed to even mention that there was one, or that it was being debated in Parliament. That was a court process too.
> 
> It involves some mental somersaults to back a bourgeois court system on one occasion and be against it on others. It's not impossible, I think I can manage it,  but it's difficult to explain to people.



I agree. But that's not what you claimed, initially.  You said "locked up without a court process".  He wasn't; he was subject to the usual process in that situation. To imply otherwise is to play into his narrative of martyrdom. We shouldn't confuse criticism of the process generally with the specifics of its application in his case.  Pointing out that the lie that bourgeois court treated him differently need not imply any support for that court.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2018)

Maybe he'll use the time inside to write a book, perhaps entitled 'my struggle'


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## JuanTwoThree (Jun 9, 2018)

Athos said:


> I agree. But that's not what you claimed, initially.  You said "locked up without a court process".  He wasn't; he was subject to the usual process in that situation. To imply otherwise is to play into his narrative of martyrdom. We shouldn't confuse criticism of the process generally with the specifics of its application in his case.  Pointing out that the lie that bourgeois court treated him differently need not imply any support for that court.



I see what you mean. There was 'a court process'. I  should have said something like 'what people would recognise as a trial with all the trimmings'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2018)

JuanTwoThree said:


> It involves some mental somersaults to back a bourgeois court system on one occasion and be against it on others. It's not impossible, I think I can manage it,  but it's difficult to explain to people.


I don't think you need to back it just recognise sometimes it jails innocent people and sometimes it doesn't.


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## Ranbay (Jun 9, 2018)

'Free Tommy Robinson' demo axed after police told organisers they were too busy

LOL etc


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 9, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> a colleague /Facebook friend is right into it.


Never make Facebook friends with colleagues! Surely this is a cardinal rule?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 9, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Its only a viable position if the aim is to tread water.After that its lets hope it all dies down , the problem goes away and we can get back to bash the fash. Problem is ,to quote Hunter S Thompson,  'once the toothpaste has been squeezed out its kinda hard to get back in'



I more meant in comparison to the current efforts but yeah I agree.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 9, 2018)

JuanTwoThree said:


> I see what you mean. There was 'a court process'. I  should have said something like 'what people would recognise as a trial with all the trimmings'.


Urmm he pled guilty. You don't normally get much of a trial when you do that.


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## Athos (Jun 9, 2018)

JuanTwoThree said:


> I see what you mean. There was 'a court process'. I  should have said something like 'what people would recognise as a trial with all the trimmings'.



He admitted his guilt. There was no case to try!


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## Poi E (Jun 9, 2018)

Ranbay said:


> 'Free Tommy Robinson' demo axed after police told organisers they were too busy
> 
> LOL etc



Sounds like Tommy's supporters listened to the police and were reasonable. They know how to play the game.

Fuck me, protest in Auckland. Wonder how many the Trooping the Colour protest will get.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 9, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There’s also one planned for tomorrow on Whitehall, after Trooping the Colour.


Geert Wilders is going to be at this one - he has apparently got into the country and is on his way there.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 9, 2018)

Seriously organised this lot.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 9, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I do tbh. Anything focused on TR is going to draw mostly to all fash. The FLA connection is a distraction - it’s not like the first couple of FLA marches (which were definitely not all or even mostly far right, though had a lot of far right speakers). A key point made by a lot of people was “we don’t want to turn into the EDL mk 2” and now it has, the constituency has changed as you can see by the numbers.


OK - I take this back to an extent. I think I underestimated how much TR's arrest and "martyrdom" would bring back a good chunk of the FLA who'd been drifting away as it got more political. It's a straightforward non-party message; TR has been locked up for telling the truth about paedos by the corrupt and biased establishment who don't care about our kids. It's also definitely got money and organisation going into promoting and organising it. The same people who did the "free speech" thing a few weeks ago in the same place were running things, and there were lots of placards and stickers made by peoplescharter dot org who I'm not familiar with but will be doing some research on. Generation Identity were there though not many of them.

The consequence of this is that there were a _lot_ more people than at the "free speech" thing, due to the FLA turnout - 10-20K easily I'd guess. Counter-protests: a few hundred SUTR folk at the Parliament Square end kept well away behind barricades by the cops.

One thing that occurred to me several times was that you're going to get nowhere here with an argument about TR being in contempt of court and on a suspended sentence and reporting restrictions blah blah. People think the system is corrupt and they don't give a shit about any of that. A lot were openly hostile to the police, shouting abuse in their faces, and at Downing Street apparently some were throwing things to the extent that the organisers had to go on the PA and try to get them to stop. ("This is how they want to portray you, don't give them the excuse!")


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 9, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Seriously organised this lot.


There's definitely a lot more proper organising going on now as well as collaboration between groups. It's streets ahead of the old EDL stuff. I think it's quite specific to some headline events though... it seems that there are still plenty of marches and demos that are just thrown together and are a mess.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 9, 2018)

I didn't stay much past 3 btw. Life's too short to be stuck in a crowd of Tommy Robinson supporters listening to arseholes giving speeches. I don't even stay for the speeches when they're by people I agree with.


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## ska invita (Jun 9, 2018)

Friends saying there are lots of young people and families in attendance.


----------



## agricola (Jun 9, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> OK - I take this back to an extent. I think I underestimated how much TR's arrest and "martyrdom" would bring back a good chunk of the FLA who'd been drifting away as it got more political. It's a straightforward non-party message; TR has been locked up for telling the truth about paedos by the corrupt and biased establishment who don't care about our kids. It's also definitely got money and organisation going into promoting and organising it. The same people who did the "free speech" thing a few weeks ago in the same place were running things, and there were lots of placards and stickers made by peoplescharter dot org who I'm not familiar with but will be doing some research on. Generation Identity were there though not many of them.
> 
> The consequence of this is that there were a _lot_ more people than at the "free speech" thing, due to the FLA turnout - 10-20K easily I'd guess. Counter-protests: a few hundred SUTR folk at the Parliament Square end kept well away behind barricades by the cops.
> 
> One thing that occurred to me several times was that you're going to get nowhere here with an argument about TR being in contempt of court and on a suspended sentence and reporting restrictions blah blah. People think the system is corrupt and they don't give a shit about any of that. A lot were openly hostile to the police, shouting abuse in their faces, and at Downing Street apparently some were throwing things to the extent that the organisers had to go on the PA and try to get them to stop. ("This is how they want to portray you, don't give them the excuse!")



Indeed, though of course it perhaps should be pointed out that almost all of the targets they've been riled up about - paedos, "the corrupt system", the cops, Muslims, "free speech", Corbyn, immigrants etc - are the ones that the papers that most of the country reads (and still to a very large extent believes) and politicians those papers support have been banging on about for years.  The likes of Hopkins, Farage, Robinson and the rest have been given column inches for god knows how long, they've been national news, they've made their living coming up with nonsense and they've been given platforms with which to spread their message in ways that are not challenged.  These are not people who have been on the outside of anything.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 9, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Friends saying there are lots of young people and families in attendance.


Some, yeah. Not so much younger kids as teenagers I'd say; older people as well. This is fairly consistent with my experience of the FLA march I was at.

Oh and somebody hired a bus which was a bit odd. I only saw it as I was leaving - it was driving down towards Trafalgar Square, with people on the top waving paedos/free tommy banners.


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 9, 2018)

Pretty sure People's Charter was set up several years ago as quite a progressive thing. Perhaps it got ran into the ground and subesequently hijacked.


----------



## belboid (Jun 9, 2018)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Pretty sure People's Charter was set up several years ago as quite a progressive thing. Perhaps it got ran into the ground and subesequently hijacked.


It was a lefty TU thing from 2009, but wound up. I guess someone bought its old domain name and trades on it.


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## sunnysidedown (Jun 9, 2018)

belboid said:


> It was a lefty TU thing from 2009, but wound up. I guess someone bought its old domain name and trades on it.



Another vacuum filled


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 9, 2018)

Has anyone mentioned that maybe Tommy and supporters want the trial to fail?  Then they can go 'waaaaahhhh, state letting muslim paedos go free' and have an excuse to kick off?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 9, 2018)




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## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 9, 2018)

Looks like it kicked off in Whitehall, pictures of filth with cuts and so on. Looking at Robinson’s support it very much fits the description of him as Professional Gammon Herder.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Looks like it kicked off in Whitehall, pictures of filth with cuts and so on. Looking at Robinson’s support it very much fits the description of him as Professional Gammon Herder.




Win-win


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## ska invita (Jun 9, 2018)

Football season is over, no games today, would've helped the turn out I suppose


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## Threshers_Flail (Jun 9, 2018)

Thousands of fash marching in London and the left are stuck up the cul-de-sac of parliamentary (Corbyn) politics and gammon.


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## bemused (Jun 9, 2018)

JuanTwoThree said:


> I see what you mean. There was 'a court process'. I  should have said something like 'what people would recognise as a trial with all the trimmings'.



Why would he need a trail? He pleaded guilty.


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## Mr.Bishie (Jun 9, 2018)

Look at the METscum protection here. I hope he got fuckin bricked the fascist cunt!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 9, 2018)

I really hope someone threw a very hard small turnip at him, & it hit him straight in his fuckin face.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 9, 2018)

All the stars aligning huh


----------



## Shechemite (Jun 9, 2018)

He’s been caining the fake tan. Thought that was Kilroy for a moment


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 9, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> View attachment 137717
> 
> I really hope someone threw a very hard small turnip at him, & it hit him straight in his fuckin face.


Who's that? Looks very familiar. Wait a minute, is that Jimmy Page? Is he there to stick up for the nonces?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 9, 2018)

.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 9, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Look at the METscum protection here. I hope he got fuckin bricked the fascist cunt!View attachment 137715



Nobody there to brick him.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Look at the METscum protection here. I hope he got fuckin bricked the fascist cunt!View attachment 137715


A modern day martin webster


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 9, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Nobody there to brick him.



Shame


----------



## A380 (Jun 9, 2018)




----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 9, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Looks like it kicked off in Whitehall, pictures of filth with cuts and so on. Looking at Robinson’s support it very much fits the description of him as Professional Gammon Herder.



I thought there was the very real possibility of serious disorder at one point, but then it calmed down again.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 9, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Friends saying there are lots of young people and families in attendance.



I didn’t notice any families.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 9, 2018)

how many were on this thing today then? guardian is aying "100" which sounds surprisingly small considering they managed to get that in leeds at a few days notice.


----------



## Nigel (Jun 9, 2018)

Footage from Facebook account of T o mmy Ro b inson  supporters 'outmaneuvering' police !
Ever felt like you are being set up ?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I didn’t notice any families.


I don't always agree with the conclusion FridgeMagnet comes to but his observations re these demos  composition etc are IMO very useful .These protest cannot be dismissed as just the normal far right suspects they are attracting a larger audience


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jun 9, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> These protest cannot be dismissed as just the normal far right suspects they are attracting a larger audience



I think that’s precisely the problem.

But on our side it’s this: to think though how we respond is too transgressive, too many rubicons must be crossed, too many liberal ontological motifs endangered.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 9, 2018)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Thousands of fash marching in London and the left are stuck up the cul-de-sac of parliamentary (Corbyn) politics and gammon.



Tbf the left can always manage a march through London.


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2018)

> A counter-protest organised by campaign groups Stand Up to Racism and Unite Against Fascisim has also been held in London.



Pretty elastic are these Trots..

Btw, one can see there being a fairly large Pro Trump rally on the day.

thousands in Belfast today as well.


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2018)

Five police officers injured as 'free Tommy Robinson' protesters clash with cops at London march

Are the cops actually running away?


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2018)

Interesting friends of Tommy.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 9, 2018)

This one’s a fuckin gem!


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 9, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Footage from Facebook account of T o mmy Ro b inson  supporters 'outmaneuvering' police !
> Ever felt like you are being set up ?




Pretty confusing behaviour from the cops tbh. I have seen them kick off smashing heads and snatching folk for far less and/or being kettled by riot police for far less/slower and less aggressive marching, albeit with better chants.


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2018)

Stories that the police stopped protestors getting on trains in manchester, if so, then they will do it when it is left wing protestors, I wonder if Liberty will say anything.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2018)

treelover said:


> Stories that the police stopped protestors getting on trains in manchester, if so, then they will do it when it is left wing protestors, I wonder if Liberty will say anything.


You have a link to these stories perhaps


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2018)

Apparently this says 'martyr of the working class', and is Hollands biggest selling Newspaper, it doesn't look like a fascist rag, so it could be.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 9, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> .These protest cannot be dismissed as just the normal far right suspects they are attracting a larger audience


That's true of course, but I think it's clear that its still football hooli types in the front ranks and that will always be a barrier to wider public acceptance.... I'd imagine the strategists behind the scenes are a bit disappointed at the level of agro - it doesn't really chime with their fake repositioning - though the violence has forced coverage of the day I guess. If a UK far right formation manages to get discipline into its ranks any time soon then I think it really could go to another level. 

These last two fairly big demos do genuinely upset me but by way of making myself feel better I take some small comfort it is still looking predominantly thuggish, and the nature of Stephen's imprisonment and the refusal to accept it by his followers is farcical, which makes the whole thing a bit of an unfunny joke. But the alarm bells should be ringing loud, just as they were during the Brexit campaign and its aftermath.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2018)

treelover said:


> Apparently this says 'martyr of the working class', and is Hollands biggest selling Newspaper, it doesn't look like a fascist rag, so it could be.


And where does that substantiate your claim about trains?


----------



## treelover (Jun 9, 2018)

ska invita said:


> That's true of course, but I think it's clear that its still football hooli types in the front ranks and that will always be a barrier to wider public acceptance.... I'd imagine the strategists behind the scenes are a bit disappointed at the level of agro - it doesn't really chime with their fake repositioning - though the violence has forced coverage of the day I guess. If a UK far right formation manages to get discipline into its ranks any time soon then I think it really could go to another level.
> 
> These last two fairly big demos do genuinely upset me but by way of making myself feel better I take some small comfort it is still looking predominantly thuggish, and the nature of Stephen's imprisonment and the refusal to accept it by his followers is farcical, which makes the whole thing a bit of an unfunny joke. But the alarm bells should be ringing loud, just as they were during the Brexit campaign and its aftermath.




So what should be the response, the twin pillars of UAF/SUTR are getting nowhere.

of course, i know you are not a supporter, but these are the most prominent, provide resources, etc.


----------



## toblerone3 (Jun 10, 2018)

I've got a friend on Facebook who's been promoting this event. (none of her 135 friends has responded or attacked her).  What do you say apart from the fucking obvious. Talking or


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2018)

Sorry, what event?


----------



## toblerone3 (Jun 10, 2018)

treelover said:


> Sorry, what event?



The one today in Parliament Square that is in all the pictures above.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 10, 2018)

treelover said:


> So what should be the response, the twin pillars of UAF/SUTR are getting nowhere.
> 
> of course, i know you are not a supporter, but these are the most prominent, provide resources, etc.


I wish I had an easy short term answer. I don't. These are bigger trends from the break up of the centre.....Brexit day is coming and odds are it will be a soft fudge which could be a new source of tension. Stephen what's his name will be out around the same time too.... Who knows.

The far right usually do a good job of destroying themselves so there's always that to hope for. The current crop are good at getting themselves arrested it seems.


----------



## toblerone3 (Jun 10, 2018)

Well strictly speaking it was yesterday. by now.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 10, 2018)

ska invita said:


> That's true of course, but I think it's clear that its still football hooli types in the front ranks and that will always be a barrier to wider public acceptance.... I'd imagine the strategists behind the scenes are a bit disappointed at the level of agro - it doesn't really chime with their fake repositioning - though the violence has forced coverage of the day I guess. If a UK far right formation manages to get discipline into its ranks any time soon then I think it really could go to another level.



I think discipline is what they've been after for a long time. Their problem is that that really requires building things slowly and it's very difficult for them to work around the fact that the majority of people who they will attract are not about patience, particularly since being openly about intellectual neo-fascism is a dead end nowadays. So I think the consolation is that they may be destined to go round in circles, reboot after reboot, without ever getting the movement they want.

On the other hand, I think it's possible to overestimate how damaging these types of scenes are. A lot of people won't be aware, and a lot of other people will think they have a right to be angry. The real problem now, IMO, is that their propaganda pulls in worldwide resources. And we live in a world where it merely raises eyebrows momentarily when a Nazi drives a car into a crowd of people and the US president equivocates about it.


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 10, 2018)

Threshers_Flail said:


> Thousands of fash marching in London and the left are stuck up the cul-de-sac of parliamentary (Corbyn) politics and gammon.


No affinity myself with Corbyn's alliance of desperate old Trots and Stals, Muslim ideologues and black seperatist careerists, hipsters who have for now rejected the alt-right (towards where a good number of them have always been heading), conspiracy theorist Occupy refugees and nostalgists for a 'real' Labour Party that didn't really exist anyway, but what do you want? A toothless left that spends all its time trying to thwart a toothless right that ultimately offers little or nothing but repetitive street demonstrations and social media windup, while real politics (ie those engaged in really deciding where we're going) actually determines what's going to happen?

The left that's gone over to Corbyn offers a fantasy of a Labour government with a difference. The isolated 'other' left offers nothing to anybody. With the exception of a few yet more isolated examples that concentrate on class, they have literally nothing to say except on the type of cultural politics that 'the system' in itself can easily absorb-and indeed promotes anyway.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2018)

> hipsters who have for now rejected the alt-right (towards where a good number of them have always been heading)



Who are these?


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 10, 2018)

treelover said:


> Who are these?


Hipsters. Didn't  you go to Peace in the Park?


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2018)

The hipsters i saw at PITP, where cheering en masse when the singer from Mango Rescue Team(apparently recently naturalised) was shouting "immigrants are great, we want more"

hardly alt right behaviour


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 10, 2018)

treelover said:


> The hipsters i saw at PITP, where cheering en masse when the singer from Mango Rescue Team(apparently recently naturalised) was saying "immigrants are great, we want more"
> 
> hardly alt right behaviour


These mostly middle class people are malleable. Most of them have no politics to speak of. 
I saw one coming out of Asda recently who actually had a t-shirt on that said 'Lower Middle Class Hero'.*  Which I thought was kind of brave, if commercially determined and inevitable. He had a big beard, and was a bit fat. 'All is well with the world,' I thought.

*It speaks for itself.


----------



## Nigel (Jun 10, 2018)

Any news about Catford !
Did any of these drunken thugs head south of the river for Ann Marie Waters/For Britain Hustings ?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 10, 2018)

asked earlier but noboby answered - what sort of numbers where there on sat?


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 10, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> asked earlier but noboby answered - what sort of numbers where there on sat?


Loads. Or maybe fewer than feared (phew!)
It's always going to be loads-or fewer than feared (phew!)

Meanwhile...


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 10, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Any news about Catford !
> Did any of these drunken thugs head south of the river for Ann Marie Waters/For Britain Hustings ?



Personally can't say. But if they did, it would mean that Anne-Marie had some drunken thugs in her audience.


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 10, 2018)

*raises eyebrow*


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


>




So many arseholes on show in one place. And some people riding bikes with no clothes on...


----------



## Raheem (Jun 10, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> So many arseholes on show in one place. And some people riding bikes with no clothes on...



"Free Tommy" can have all sorts of meanings in different contexts.


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


>




the one day i go out without charging my phone




fair play london


----------



## Nigel (Jun 10, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> Personally can't say. But if they did, it would mean that Anne-Marie had some drunken thugs in her audience.


There were, fears of attacks & abuse of 'Muslims' in that area, local Mosque and counter demonstration !


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 10, 2018)

Nigel said:


> There were, fears of attacks & abuse of 'Muslims' in that area, local Mosque and counter demonstration !


What happened?


----------



## Nigel (Jun 10, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> What happened?


Hopefully nothing much !
Haven't heard any reports


----------



## RD2003 (Jun 10, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> the one day i go out without charging my phone
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Naked bike ride another sign that socialism on the way. And that, in preparation, 'freedom' is already here.

Win-win!


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 10, 2018)

what does naked bike riders go to do with socialism


----------



## Raheem (Jun 10, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> what does naked bike riders go to do with socialism



They have nothing to lose but their chains. And/or their pedals.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 10, 2018)

Get rid of the Union and you take down one of their planks. Take back the English flag from these pricks and don't let them dictate the future of English nationalism.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Get rid of the Union and you take down one of their planks. Take back the English flag from these pricks and don't let them dictate the future of English nationalism.



Is there a future in any kind of "nationalism", though?


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 10, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Is there a future in any kind of "nationalism", though?


 Change 'nationalism' for populism and I think you'll find that its not only alive and well in the EU but swiftly moving into the mainstream.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 10, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Is there a future in any kind of "nationalism", though?



Yes. People just fucking love symbols.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Change 'nationalism' for populism and I think you'll find that its not only alive and well in the EU but swiftly moving into the mainstream.



I guess with that in mind, "Tommy" and his supporters really must feel that this is their "moment". That he's a proper, authentic voice of the disenfranchised.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Yes. People just fucking love symbols.


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)




----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> View attachment 137764



The whole of London, eh? Population ain't what it used to be.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I don't always agree with the conclusion FridgeMagnet comes to but his observations re these demos  composition etc are IMO very useful .These protest cannot be dismissed as just the normal far right suspects they are attracting a larger audience



There were definitely plenty there who weren’t what we’d call organised fascists but it was still mostly men rather than families.


----------



## Voley (Jun 10, 2018)

This is brilliant. Bloke says the left are trying to censor a photo of the "whole of London" at the Robinson demo. Except it's a photo of Liverpool FC's open top bus victory parade from when they won the Champions League.



Original tweet. Comments below raised a chuckle here:


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 10, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Any news about Catford !
> Did any of these drunken thugs head south of the river for Ann Marie Waters/For Britain Hustings ?


Not unless they are going on a three day pub crawl ,  the hustings are on Tuesday


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> There were definitely plenty there who weren’t what we’d call organised fascists but it was still mostly men rather than families.


how many disorganised fascists?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 10, 2018)

Voley said:


> This is brilliant. Bloke says the left are trying to censor a photo of the "whole of London" at the Robinson demo. Except it's a photo of Liverpool FC's open top bus victory parade from when they won the Champions League.
> 
> 
> 
> Original tweet. Comments below raised a chuckle here:




The comments are comedy gold, they are well worth reading. 

Loved this one, together with photo - "Surprisingly big turn out for Tommy at Mecca too."


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 10, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> asked earlier but noboby answered - what sort of numbers where there on sat?



I’m hearing 20,000 from photographers who were there.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2018)




----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I’m hearing 20,000 from photographers who were there.


Really? This says 'possibly as many as ten thousand' which is a lot. 
None of the pictures i've seen of saturday look that crowded but still the humour above though really welcome does feel a bit desperate (for me).


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 10, 2018)

Free Tommy Robinson Rally With Geert Wilders


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> Really? This says 'possibly as many as ten thousand' which is a lot.
> None of the pictures i've seen of saturday look that crowded but still the humour above though really welcome does feel a bit desperate (for me).



How so, fash hate being mocked


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> .


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


>


I’d just clicked through the pics Mr.Bishie linked to. Find them frightening af. That's what i mean about the mockery memes, it doesn't come naturally to try to laugh at them when what i feel looking at those pics of thousands is fear, not that fear is any use to anybody.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> I’d just clicked through the pics Mr.Bishie linked to. Find them frightening af. That's what i mean about the mockery memes, it doesn't come naturally to try to laugh at them when what i feel looking at those pics of thousands is fear, not that fear is any use to anybody.


Fear is very useful


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> I’d just clicked through the pics Mr.Bishie linked to. Find them frightening af. That's what i mean about the mockery memes, it doesn't come naturally to try to laugh at them when what i feel looking at those pics of thousands is fear, not that fear is any use to anybody.



I understand. It's the same when I talk to Americans who dismiss far right marchers, police brutality and so on. People have legit fears of such happenings but the right prefer to dismiss it and blame antifa and BLM. Whereas American family and friends are genuinely frightened of the worsening of the situation in the US.

I'm afraid all I can do is mock them from thousands of miles away. But the UK is undergoing some decidedly unpleasant changes. And you look at the photos, of what appears to be mainly angry white males, and wonder what the solution is? Is "Tommy" becoming some kind of leader-in-waiting to them? Is pointing out the demographic of the crowd being racist?

It's a mess and I don't know what the answer is.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Jun 10, 2018)

We need the Labour Party and Momentum in particular to step up their game and advertise/attend future counter demos. Was pretty bloody lonely down Whitehall yesterday, we were totally outnumbered and surrounded.


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Jun 10, 2018)

Can’t see Tommy being any kind of leader at the moment .
Too busy writing a book to while away his time in prison.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2018)

bolshiebhoy said:


> We need the Labour Party and Momentum in particular to step up their game and advertise/attend future counter demos. Was pretty bloody lonely down Whitehall yesterday, we were totally outnumbered and surrounded.


Yeh. Good luck with the labour party and momentum


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> Really? This says 'possibly as many as ten thousand' which is a lot.
> None of the pictures i've seen of saturday look that crowded but still the humour above though really welcome does feel a bit desperate (for me).


TBH no one knows how many were there, the only demo I know of which made some attempt to count attendees was the countryside alliance march about 15 years ago


----------



## Poi E (Jun 10, 2018)

bolshiebhoy said:


> We need the Labour Party and Momentum in particular to step up their game and advertise/attend future counter demos. Was pretty bloody lonely down Whitehall yesterday, we were totally outnumbered and surrounded.



Labour needs to court the votes of those at the demonstration, not tell them they are a bunch of cunts.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Jun 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. Good luck with the labour party and momentum


Would have been nice if Antifa/black bloc had shown too.


----------



## bolshiebhoy (Jun 10, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Labour needs to court the votes of those at the demonstration, not tell them they are a bunch of cunts.


That's what the German SPD thought in the 1930's. Relying on elections alone didn't work out so well.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 10, 2018)

bolshiebhoy said:


> That's what the German SPD thought in the 1930's. Relying on elections alone didn't work out so well.



Yugoslavia in the 1990s is probably a closer comparison. Footballs clubs becoming a phalanx of shock troops for atavistic figures cloaking nationalism in the language of rights.


----------



## Geri (Jun 10, 2018)

A friend who was there reckoned 30,000 but has now revised it 20,000.


----------



## LDC (Jun 10, 2018)

Big one-off demos and the wider 'culture war' (to use a vile phrase) is one thing, if they start organizing on a more local level in the style of Golden Dawn we might have real problems.


----------



## teqniq (Jun 10, 2018)

I take your point but the mere fact that they could attract such large numbers to this demo is still cause for concern.


----------



## LDC (Jun 10, 2018)

teqniq said:


> I take your point but the mere fact that they could attract such large numbers to this demo is still cause for concern.



Yeah yeah, don't get me wrong, I agree, it's a worry. Them translating it into something more concrete, long lasting, and effective in terms of getting and keeping people involved in a real movement with roots and a practical focus beyond having demos is the difficult political shift though.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 10, 2018)

mystic pyjamas said:


> Can’t see Tommy being any kind of leader at the moment .
> Too busy writing a book to while away his time in prison.



That has a precedent.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2018)

bolshiebhoy said:


> Would have been nice if Antifa/black bloc had shown too.


Yeh if there was such a group as antifa in this country it would have been.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Labour needs to court the votes of those at the demonstration, not tell them they are a bunch of cunts.



I don't believe being nice to them is going to sway it much. Thing is, imho, no matter how much you try and persuade people that they might be wrong, the hardcore are still going to believe what they believe. No matter what kind of evidence you present them with.

There's a hatred out there and the far right have harnessed it. I hope it's just a flash in the pan but these movements have a habit of expanding when left unchecked or the opposition is too busy infighting.

I'm alternating between laughing at the sad fascist fucks and being concerend over history repeating itself


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

Is there a simple answer to how come this was nothing like the usual situation when there’s about 7 of them surrounded by counter protestors?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> Is there a simple answer to how come this was nothing like the usual situation when there’s about 7 of them surrounded by counter protestors?



It's the zeitgeist. When something becomes this strong and big, with not just hardcore but ordinary folk latching on out of, what, desperation, it's less easy to control. For some people, maybe many, "Tommy" is speaking their language. They can relate to what he's saying - even if it is a load of malicious bollocks.


----------



## LDC (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> Is there a simple answer to how come this was nothing like the usual situation when there’s about 7 of them surrounded by counter protestors?



Did you see many of the earlier EDL demos? Many of them were much bigger than 7 of them! (Not saying this is the same thing, but it's a second cousin to them.)


----------



## Sweet FA (Jun 10, 2018)

Red London said:
			
		

> some proper hysterics going on about yesterday, mostly from fringe "radical" elements far detached from the normal left and working class. A messy anti-jihad anti-pedo riot on a non-match day does not alone herald a Far Right breakthrough: Tommy Robinson is the problem, but for now a one-man problem: we need our own Tommy or Tommies. But beyond that, what can we say about a relatively diverse (race and gender) event with a misguided premise (that Tommy has been "silenced" over pedo's)? - or is the left suddenly going to condemn people for attacking the police to make an unrelated poltical point?


----------



## Shechemite (Jun 10, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> These mostly middle class people are malleable. Most of them have no politics to speak of.
> I saw one coming out of Asda recently who actually had a t-shirt on that said 'Lower Middle Class Hero'.*  Which I thought was kind of brave, if commercially determined and inevitable. He had a big beard, and was a bit fat. 'All is well with the world,' I thought.
> 
> *It speaks for itself.



Hipsters generally a well-fed bunch. Tells us all we need to do about the fuckers


----------



## polly (Jun 10, 2018)

There's Free Tommy graffiti on a junction near my house. I'm thinking I'll paint bomb it. Any better suggestions welcomed. I'm probably going tonight. These cunts


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Yugoslavia in the 1990s is probably a closer comparison. Footballs clubs becoming a phalanx of shock troops for atavistic figures cloaking nationalism in the language of rights.



Frightening to think of an UK Arkan and his firm being unleashed on his victims with no constraints, luckily we are nowhere near that situation.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Big one-off demos and the wider 'culture war' (to use a vile phrase) is one thing, if they start organizing on a more local level in the style of Golden Dawn we might have real problems.




yes, maybe they will attract more than ten people(inc the organisers) who attended a meeting on the social care crisis last year.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2018)

Raheem said:


> That has a precedent.



Gramsci?


----------



## teqniq (Jun 10, 2018)

Hitler, as any fule no.


----------



## LDC (Jun 10, 2018)

polly said:


> There's Free Tommy graffiti on a junction near my house. I'm thinking I'll paint bomb it. Any better suggestions welcomed. I'm probably going tonight. These cunts



The classic is adding "...with every purchase" afterwards.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Hipsters generally a well-fed bunch. Tells us all we need to do about the fuckers




most of the people i know from the RTS days(it was hip once, fashion shoots, etc) are very well fed, housed, now receiving their inheritances, etc, also allows the Manchilds amongst them (who were common) to act out their fantasies.

this is my area, not sure about others.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2018)

teqniq said:


> Hitler, as any fule no.



yes, I know, but Robinson is trying to create a cultural hegemony, Bannon is a fan of Gramsci.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 10, 2018)

polly said:


> There's Free Tommy graffiti on a junction near my house. I'm thinking I'll paint bomb it. Any better suggestions welcomed. I'm probably going tonight. These cunts



Add a bit on the end, “To keep the padeos out of jail”


----------



## Raheem (Jun 10, 2018)

teqniq said:


> Hitler, as any fule no.



I was thinking of Jonathan King, but yes that works too.


----------



## polly (Jun 10, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> The classic is adding "...with every purchase" afterwards.





Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Add a bit on the end, “To keep the padeos out of jail”



Thanks  I don't think I have space to add words and it's on a really busy junction so I think the simpler the better. But these could be good if I have the stones to hang around long enough.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2018)

teqniq said:


> Hitler, as any fule no.


As I made clear in my post on the subject about five pages back


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> The classic is adding "...with every purchase" afterwards.


While stocks last


----------



## teqniq (Jun 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> As I made clear in my post on the subject about five pages back


Ah apologies. I haven't read that far back.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2018)

polly said:


> Thanks  I don't think I have space to add words and it's on a really busy junction so I think the simpler the better. But these could be good if I have the stones to hang around long enough.



Maybe change the FREE TOMMY to FREEDOM with a few well-placed strokes and painting out the MY at the end. Failing that, add COOPER at the end, to confuse people in a sly nod to the immortality of Britain's much missed comedic genius.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2018)

Expect rather more arrests at any subsequent demos in london


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Expect rather more arrests at any subsequent demos in london



and that is where it becomes pivotal- i am waiting for the tommy cruxifiction show to fade into the distance for the organisers- they know they have a valuable and recieptive audience here- it doesnt take much for a refining  and recofusing of aims to widen the appeal. An vocal anti muslim  diatrabe core is limited in its future development- a tweaking to bring in other issues that are not as openly racist could turn their support up to 11. A march, say, to support the NHS, that involves arrests would have huge politcal capital. TBH, I am suroised that they have stuck to the child abuse/ muslim path for so long- plenty pf other causes to carpetbag out there that would appeal to the disaffected former labour voter bloc that have no loyalty to the party any longer.


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 10, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Add a bit on the end, “To keep the padeos out of jail”



“Pedo’s”

For authenticity.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> Is there a simple answer to how come this was nothing like the usual situation when there’s about 7 of them surrounded by counter protestors?



Because that's not the usual situation


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> and that is where it becomes pivotal- i am waiting for the tommy cruxifiction show to fade into the distance for the organisers- they know they have a valuable and recieptive audience here- it doesnt take much for a refining  and recofusing of aims to widen the appeal. An vocal anti muslim  diatrabe core is limited in its future development- a tweaking to bring in other issues that are not as openly racist could turn their support up to 11. A march, say, to support the NHS, that involves arrests would have huge politcal capital. TBH, I am suroised that they have stuck to the child abuse/ muslim path for so long- plenty pf other causes to carpetbag out there that would appeal to the disaffected former labour voter bloc that have no loyalty to the party any longer.



It’s actually a weak point of theirs that they’re simply about the ‘Islamification’ of the U.K. Why would they start on about the NHS? The bombings and the grooming cases have played right into their hands but beyond that they have nothing else.

E2a: Unless they play off underfunding against immigrants/foreign aid etc. But the right often disagree with socialised health care.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

polly said:


> Thanks  I don't think I have space to add words and it's on a really busy junction so I think the simpler the better. But these could be good if I have the stones to hang around long enough.


There's also the debate style annotation, just writing underneath "no, he's a cunt".


----------



## LDC (Jun 10, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’s actually a weak point of theirs that they’re simply about the ‘Islamification’ of the U.K. Why would they start on about the NHS? The bombings and the grooming cases have played right into their hands but beyond that they have nothing else.
> 
> E2a: Unless they play off underfunding against immigrants/foreign aid etc. But the right often disagree with socialised health care.



I dunno, from what I saw/heard a sizeable chunk of the motivating factor for some of the wider EDL crowd was a general petty nationalist anger at the government for the Iraq War and 'betrayal' of squaddies for the lies that took Britain to war. (Of course all mixed up with a whole host of racism and xenophobia.)

I can easily imagine they could make a sideways jump to a defend the NHS along 'against health tourism' and being ruined by both the State and scroungers/immigrants line.

I think the problem is that this isn't a classic right wing thing here, it's quite patriotic and nationalist but it at least makes noises about being anti-racist and pro-'normal folks' and against elites. I think if they could harness some anti-elite feelings (which they're not doing too badly at so far), anger at the State (left and right), defence of 'British values' like free speech and democracy, all thrown in with some underdog/we're not being listened memes it could be something with a much wider appeal and so a much harder thing to counter.

But yeah, if they stick with the 'Islamification' thing it'll have a short life and probably implode in squabbles, lager, and a lack of strategy more than it being about anything we do. But if it broadens out, gets some good direction, and has a bit of luck with timings and other events... hmmm...

E2A: More thinking aloud than addressed to your post Magnus.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 10, 2018)

polly said:


> There's Free Tommy graffiti on a junction near my house. I'm thinking I'll paint bomb it. Any better suggestions welcomed. I'm probably going tonight. These cunts


"...with every 30 litres of fuel". Go traditional.

ETA. Oh. Not as original as I thought.


----------



## treelover (Jun 10, 2018)

> Making tv documentaries about fascism and visiting places like Belsen and Dachau I was left wondering what sort oh inhuman creatures ran these places and who were willing to shoot people standing on the edges of their own mass grave? I thought, naively, that having seen such consequences of racism and far right intolerance, that such inhuman people would never be seen again in a civlized society. I was wrong, they turned up in London yesterday.




posted on Momentum


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Did you see many of the earlier EDL demos? Many of them were much bigger than 7 of them! (Not saying this is the same thing, but it's a second cousin to them.)


Its probably just that i wasn't paying attention. When's the last time EDL or similar got a crowd of this sort of size together?


----------



## smokedout (Jun 10, 2018)

polly said:


> There's Free Tommy graffiti on a junction near my house. I'm thinking I'll paint bomb it. Any better suggestions welcomed. I'm probably going tonight. These cunts



Someone had crossed out free and replaced it with kill on the same graffiti I saw in  Camden yesterday.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

smokedout said:


> Someone had crossed out free and replaced it with kill on the same graffiti I saw in  Camden yesterday.


I saw that. Also they wrote it on the BTP building opposite but as you'd expect that was painted over pretty much instantly.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> Its probably just that i wasn't paying attention. When's the last time EDL or similar got a crowd of this sort of size together?



Didn’t the FLA pull similar last year?


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Didn’t the FLA pull similar last year?


 Yep that 'march against extremism' thing, but it looked different didn't it, no st george's flags etc, i think. But yeah probably the same people.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 10, 2018)

bolshiebhoy said:


> We need the Labour Party and Momentum in particular to step up their game and advertise/attend future counter demos. Was pretty bloody lonely down Whitehall yesterday, we were totally outnumbered and surrounded.


If they had any sense neither Labour nor Momentum would touch you with a bargepole.


bolshiebhoy said:


> That's what the German SPD thought in the 1930's. Relying on elections alone didn't work out so well.


And cuddling up to rape defenders will.

Not that it matters, the LP has it's own strategy and you don't figure on it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> Yep that 'march against extremism' thing, but it looked different didn't it, no st george's flags etc, i think. But yeah probably the same people.


It’s not the same organisers but some of the people attending are the same. This was big but nowhere near as big as the actual FLA marches, less than half the size.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 10, 2018)

belboid said:


> It was a lefty TU thing from 2009, but wound up. I guess someone bought its old domain name and trades on it.


Its some nutty UKIP lite/alt right bloke from Swindon .Has a Youtube stream, a couple of Facebook sites and writes article on himself.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> Its probably just that i wasn't paying attention. When's the last time EDL or similar got a crowd of this sort of size together?



The EDL peaked at about 3,000. However the number of demos esp 2009-12 was frenetic. They regularly outnumbered any opposition, mainly due to their willingness to travel.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 10, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Its some nutty UKIP lite/alt right bloke from Swindon .Has a Youtube stream, a couple of Facebook sites and writes article on himself.



Sargon of Akkad?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Its some nutty UKIP lite/alt right bloke from Swindon .Has a Youtube stream, a couple of Facebook sites and writes article on himself.


Not sure this is the same people. This group is headed by a young Tory and working with a number of nutjob Brexiteers, fringe Tories, libertarians etc. They also seem to have definitely got a cash injection from somewhere given that they printed a load of placards. They had some presence beyond the placards yesterday but not much in terms of numbers.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Not sure this is the same people. This group is headed by a young Tory and working with a number of nutjob Brexiteers, fringe Tories, libertarians etc. They also seem to have definitely got a cash injection from somewhere given that they printed a load of placards. They had some presence beyond the placards yesterday but not much in terms of numbers.



Are you on about Generation Identity?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are you on about Generation Identity?


No, this is People's Charter.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No, this is People's Charter.



Oh ok, I missed that particular sect.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

Actually I saw some holding up things like dates of certain rights and assumed they were freeman on the land loons.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 10, 2018)

About – The People's Charter Foundation
"in the spirit of the chartists" dont you know....


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Oh ok, I missed that particular sect.



The "Free Tommy" placards were theirs, and they had presence.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The "Free Tommy" placards were theirs, and they had presence.



I saw those and didn’t bother reading below the Free Tommy bit!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The "Free Tommy" placards were theirs, and they had presence.


Second picture down on the left yer man with the knights templar shirt on


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I saw those and didn’t bother reading below the Free Tommy bit!


Tbh neither did I til I was reviewing the photos and could read the small print. I just thought the people in the MBGA hats were random loons tacking on to the march.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 10, 2018)

ska invita said:


> About – The People's Charter Foundation
> "in the spirit of the chartists" dont you know....


"Over the decades, these latte liberal politicians, the state-controlled BBC media, and the hard-left university professors, have attacked our *beautiful British culture*. "


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

The SWP of the right! 

That was in response to FridgeMagnet


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Not sure this is the same people. This group is headed by a young Tory and working with a number of nutjob Brexiteers, fringe Tories, libertarians etc. They also seem to have definitely got a cash injection from somewhere given that they printed a load of placards. They had some presence beyond the placards yesterday but not much in terms of numbers.


Luke Nash-Jones


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 10, 2018)

Rise of the Eton EDL: the toffs behind Britain’s new hard-right
written by himself allegedly


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Luke Nash-Jones


Yes. They've got some money coming in from somewhere - no way could a tiny libertarian/freeman group support all those placards and banners on their own.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Rise of the Eton EDL: the toffs behind Britain’s new hard-right
> written by himself allegedly


"Nash-Jones associates with, even goes to the pub for a pint with, the controversial John Meighan, who heads up the 70,000 man strong Football Lads Alliance"

aha


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yes. They've got some money coming in from somewhere - no way could a tiny libertarian/freeman group support all those placards and banners on their own.


 and caps dont for get the MBGA caps 100% British made


----------



## Fruitloop (Jun 10, 2018)

there are some awesome pictures on twatter of the Free TR dorks running into the naked bike ride.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> "Nash-Jones associates with, even goes to the pub for a pint with, the controversial John Meighan, who heads up the 70,000 man strong Football Lads Alliance"
> 
> aha


Its alleged that he wrote that article himself trying to make out how well connected he is. They had a small contingent on the DFLA Manchester march. A mate of mine sent me some photos and a link. His Facebook page has photos of him and Tommy Robinson. I think hes an opportunist with some money, a social media presence trying to make a reuptation for himself more than representing any real forces.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Its alleged that he wrote that article himself trying to make out how well connected he is. They had a small contingent on the DFLA Manchester march. A mate of mine sent me some photos and a link. His Facebook page has photos of him and Tommy Robinson. I think hes an opportunist with some money, a social media presence trying to make a reuptation for himself more than representing any real forces.


Well, they certainly had success handing out placards. I'm afraid I didn't check where they were coming from but they were all over the place.

People with funding do find it easier to make connections.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 10, 2018)

Spoke to a couple of friends who were photographing & filming yesterday, & they both said the MET were at the point of losing control. These two are both die hard protest photographers, & even they said it felt scary! The going number of fash is 20k, & a lot more younger kicking off, whereas the older firm were not up for a ruck.

Going off reports from the speeches, this is a monthly planned event? Surely plod won't let them off the hook next time?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> a lot more younger kicking off, whereas the older firm were not up for a ruck.


I didn't see any direct violence first hand but I saw a lot of attempted aggro, with people screaming into coppers' faces, and they were all middle aged blokes, for what that's worth.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I didn't see any direct violence first hand but I saw a lot of attempted aggro, with people screaming into coppers' faces, and they were all middle aged blokes, for what that's worth.



Have a look through here -https://londonnewspictures.photoshelter.com/gallery/2018-06-09-Tommy-Robinson-Demo-LNP/G00004qN.q75EVE8/

The cone throwers were 14-18 years old tops!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 10, 2018)

Plus 20-30 coppers injured.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

I saw it kick off on Whitehall with projectiles lobbed at cops and they basically backed off.
Stark contrast to antifascists who get kettled then beaten into a location more of plod’s pleasing.
I doubt subsequent ones will be policed quite so lightly, I’ll start believing conspiraloon stuff if they are!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Have a look through here -https://londonnewspictures.photoshelter.com/gallery/2018-06-09-Tommy-Robinson-Demo-LNP/G00004qN.q75EVE8/
> 
> The cone throwers were 14-18 years old tops!


Yeah - we know that makes a more saleable picture though... There were definitely teenagers there, but what I mean is that there wasn't (IMO) specifically an age divide. Younger lads might have done it but plenty of older folk were very happy to mix it up with the police.

When it kicked off around Downing Street I was over the other side but people there were agreeing with the speakers who were saying to stop it. It didn't last for very long when I was there.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

I'm going to take down the pics that I posted btw - it's unlikely but I don't want them connected with me.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah - we know that makes a more saleable picture though... There were definitely teenagers there, but what I mean is that there wasn't (IMO) specifically an age divide. Younger lads might have done it but plenty of older folk were very happy to mix it up with the police.
> 
> When it kicked off around Downing Street I was over the other side but people there were agreeing with the speakers who were saying to stop it. It didn't last for very long when I was there.



I was on the other side and it moved up towards Trafalgar Square. It was pretty short lived though from what I saw; presumably in the knowledge that not everyone was backing them.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jun 10, 2018)

I usually refrain from political posts around here but been following Tommy Robinson for a few years with his vlogging....he seems like a good, and extremely brave man. If you have watched his videos and followed him for many years you can understand him. Free Tommy (thats not even his real name....)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

Cheesypoof said:


> I usually refrain from political posts around here but been following Tommy Robinson for a few years with his vlogging....he seems like a good, and extremely brave man. If you have watched his videos and followed him for many years you can understand him. Free Tommy (thats not even his real name....)


oh fuck off


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> oh fuck off



yeh well you can too


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 10, 2018)

Cheesypoof said:


> I usually refrain from political posts around here but been following Tommy Robinson for a few years with his vlogging....he seems like a good, and extremely brave man. If you have watched his videos and followed him for many years you can understand him. Free Tommy (thats not even his real name....)



Are you on a piss take?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

Cheesypoof said:


> yeh well you can too


No, seriously, fuck off, if you can't be arsed even looking up the racist twat then stay out of discussions about him, and if you actually agree with him then fuck off permanently.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jun 10, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Are you on a piss take?



no. i always expect a herd mentality guan on around here....let me guess you think he is a 'cunt'?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 10, 2018)

Cheesypoof said:


> no. i always expect a herd mentality guan on around here....let me guess you think he is a 'cunt'?



You're Morrissey & I claim my £5?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 10, 2018)

Cheesypoof said:


> I usually refrain from political posts around here but been following Tommy Robinson for a few years with his vlogging....he seems like a good, and extremely brave man. If you have watched his videos and followed him for many years you can understand him. Free Tommy (thats not even his real name....)




Quoted for some reason or another... mainly so you can never deny you posted this...your fan-girling of the likes of Milo and other alt-right cunts has been going on for some time...this? Fucking hell.


----------



## Cheesypoof (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No, seriously, fuck off, if you can't be arsed even looking up the racist twat then stay out of discussions about him, and if you actually agree with him then fuck off permanently.



hmm. racist twat? have you watched his video about his dealings with muslims? i guess not. Folks like you need to educate yourselves. Thats why i stay out of the absolute crap that people like you espouse....its too easy for you, rather than look beyond the parapet, actually READ, watch what you attempt to critique (watch hours of it, read hours about it) and get yourself informed.


----------



## JimW (Jun 10, 2018)

Cheesypoof said:


> hmm. racist twat? have you watched his video about his dealings with muslims? i guess not. Folks like you need to educate yourselves. Thats why i stay out of the absolute crap that people like you espouse....its too easy for you, rather than look beyond the parapet, actually READ, watch what you attempt to critique (watch hours of it, read hours about it) and get yourself informed.


I'm now informed you're a fucking idiot.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 10, 2018)

Cheesypoof said:


> hmm. racist twat? have you watched his video about his dealings with muslims? i guess not. Folks like you need to educate yourselves. Thats why i stay out of the absolute crap that people like you espouse....its too easy for you, rather than look beyond the parapet, actually READ, watch what you attempt to critique (watch hours of it, read hours about it) and get yourself informed.



LOL. EDUCATE YOURSELVES URBAN>>>TOMMY-NOT-HIS-NAME-RACIST-ROBINSON deserves your time.

Hours of it? You have hours in your day to watch and absorb the absolute shite the likes of Tommy-pretender spouts?

Absolute crap is something you know all about, obviously.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 10, 2018)

well I see the subtle suggestion didn't work


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

Good. About bloody time. One week since this crap isn't bad.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 10, 2018)

Good god. I never thought she was a raging fucking filthy bigot. What a nasty surprise.

Awful.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 10, 2018)

Fuck me lol, never saw that coming! 

Cheesy Is Morrissey! I fuckin knew it!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

The drugs forum delivers these types, bizarrely enough, given how the far right view addicts.


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

never really noticed her apart from about a year ago when she was all about how sexy and exciting Milo was.  It's a bit interesting as a trajectory sort of.
eg) cos i've got nothing better to do:


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

Cheesy’s mates


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 10, 2018)




----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 10, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> Good god. I never thought she was a raging fucking filthy bigot. What a nasty surprise.
> 
> Awful.



There has been some  bizzaro stuff as long as I can remember...she's recently become fond of calling people SJW as if fighting for SJ is a fucking crime? 
...as an aside...I have honestly always cringed at her need to mention her 'alabaster skin' too. Subtle maybe but I see it.


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Plus 20-30 coppers injured.


This is the positive-ish takeaway as i see it, a major fuckup for the nascent 'movement' if it is one because even though usually plod would be on their side (structurally and given a choice on the ground) the people who went for it chucking stuff at the police really fucked up because next time they'll be kettled in no time. taking some sort of comfort in that is sad i know.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 10, 2018)

Christ! 17 years and hiding in plain sight.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 10, 2018)

Calamity1971 said:


> Christ! 17 years and hiding in plain sight.



Hiding? Nah. She used to be popular, living in London and had supporters/friends to hide behind and/or excuse her cuntiness. It was always there.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 10, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No, seriously, fuck off, if you can't be arsed even looking up the racist twat then stay out of discussions about him, and if you actually agree with him then fuck off permanently.


It might not be the bigotry, violence, fraud or narcissism that our temporary guest admires. Perhaps they just want more done to risk nonces getting acquitted. It seems quite a popular position these days.


----------



## Shechemite (Jun 10, 2018)

Who does coke on a Sunday night?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> This is the positive-ish takeaway as i see it, a major fuckup for the nascent 'movement' if it is one because even though usually plod would be on their side (structurally and given a choice on the ground) the people who went for it chucking stuff at the police really fucked up because next time they'll be kettled in no time. taking some sort of comfort in that is sad as fuck i know.



On the other hand, more martyr myths and gaslight wailing about free speech (demonising Muslims is one of the freest speeches going)


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 10, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Hiding? Nah. She used to be popular, living in London and had supporters/friends to hide behind and/or excuse her cuntiness. It was always there.


Ah right, I've only been here a few years. I did notice some odd posts (nothing bigoted)but wasn't expecting that.


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Who does coke on a Sunday night?


err.. people who are coke addicts? Same as Tuesday mornings. Not cool to take the piss as if the drug you're talking about is a sort of good-time joke. Cheesy's political views are what they are and probably more related to a weird adoration of celebs than any chemical issues they may have.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Who does coke on a Sunday night?


People who don't need to get up on Monday morning


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 10, 2018)

What an absolute pleasure to find one of the worst ever long term posters permanently banned.


----------



## agricola (Jun 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> People who don't need to get up on Monday morning



Priests?


----------



## dweller (Jun 10, 2018)

This is gonna be the next one. There is a remainers one planned for the same day. 
Someone on twitter is saying that provocations are being planned. 


"Credible intelligence suggests June 23rd is going to be a day of significant, engineered disorder in London, far-right relying on the police preparing soft response options due to previous peaceful marches on the remain side. Aim will be to provoke violence and muddy attribution."

.


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

the ones to watch.


----------



## xenon (Jun 10, 2018)

bimble said:


> Good. About bloody time. One week since this crap isn't bad. View attachment 137854




 Sorry just jumping in, what is that, can’t see it. Can you describe or summarise please. No argument with anything just curious.


----------



## bimble (Jun 10, 2018)

xenon said:


> Sorry just jumping in, what is that, can you describe or summarise please. No argument with anything just curious.


 Basically just a screenshot from last week of her (cheeseypoof) being sad about tommy Robinson’s arrest and goading the snowflakes on here who don’t see him for the truth teller he is etc zzz.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 10, 2018)

Him (allegedly) earning a hundred grand a month on patreon and her defending him.


----------



## bimble (Jun 11, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Him (allegedly) earning a hundred grand a month on patreon and her defending him.


I think it’s Jordan Peterson being fangirled there as well, like milo before him.


----------



## xenon (Jun 11, 2018)

bimble said:


> Basically just a screenshot from last week of her (cheeseypoof) being sad about tommy Robinson’s arrest and goading the snowflakes on here who don’t see him for the truth teller he is etc zzz.



 Thanks. Yeah   She has never really hid that side of her, politics.  I remember them Milo stuff and other  shit ’truth speaking iconoclast’ celebrity worship crap.  Like a Chris Morris dinner party sketch.  

 Consistent, at least, I suppose.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 11, 2018)

xenon said:


> Thanks. Yeah   She has never really hid that side of her, politics.  I remember them Milo stuff and other  shit ’truth speaking iconoclast’ celebrity worship crap.  Like a Chris Morris dinner party sketch.
> 
> Consistent, at least, I suppose.



Yeah but Ivanka is really pretty okay! ...and the pretty ones deserve more time and will save the world!  Who could resist?


----------



## xenon (Jun 11, 2018)

Oh God, yeah that one as well.   years and years.  At least  when she was going on about Pete Doherty it was  harmless kak.


----------



## Humberto (Jun 11, 2018)

xenon said:


> Sorry just jumping in, what is that, can’t see it. Can you describe or summarise please. No argument with anything just curious.




Cheeseypoof, in reply to bellaozzydog saying that Jordan Peterson is retweeting Robinson - "Tommy Robinson? Awful stuff (his jailing I mean)."

2nd post by Cheeseypoof quoting gentlegreen saying Peterson is raking in a hundred thousand every month with angry face thingy - "Why are you angry?"

Yossarian replies and says - "Because it is infuriating to see so many people giving this cunt money when it could go to worthier people or causes."

And finally the fourth post by Cheeseypoof says-  "I see. So your rather strong point of view on this seems to be 'the man is a cunt, You find him very offensive or something?

HTH


----------



## Humberto (Jun 11, 2018)

I know it was covered like


----------



## existentialist (Jun 11, 2018)

Calamity1971 said:


> Ah right, I've only been here a few years. I did notice some odd posts (nothing bigoted)but wasn't expecting that.


I think it was always about the attention


----------



## gentlegreen (Jun 11, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Plus 20-30 coppers injured.


They seemed to be seriously under-manned.


----------



## Sea Star (Jun 11, 2018)

Cheesypoof said:


> I usually refrain from political posts around here but been following Tommy Robinson for a few years with his vlogging....he seems like a good, and extremely brave man. If you have watched his videos and followed him for many years you can understand him. Free Tommy (thats not even his real name....)


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jun 11, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I think it was always about the attention



I think your being too generous. The David Icke stuff was pretty batshit from what I remember. She's been quite open about her altright/general loon spuddery for a while now. It wasn't even just her politics that were off. I remember her being really quite selfish on a posters thread who was discussing their parents passing. That was pretty grim.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2018)

Cheesypoof said:


> I usually refrain from political posts around here but been following Tommy Robinson for a few years with his vlogging....he seems like a good, and extremely brave man. If you have watched his videos and followed him for many years you can understand him. Free Tommy (thats not even his real name....)



Wow. I had no idea.

Disappointing to read that post.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 11, 2018)

Thimble Queen said:


> I think your being too generous. The David Icke stuff was pretty batshit from what I remember. She's been quite open about her altright/general loon spuddery for a while now. It wasn't even just her politics that were off. I remember her being really quite selfish on a posters thread who was discussing their parents passing. That was pretty grim.


I found both her views and her debating style so much of an irritation that I stuck her on ignore a long time ago, so yes, it may be that I have a sanitised view of her antics. I'm not especially surprised or disappointed to see her cross this particular line, though. I expect it will be the sleeping pills, or something


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I found both her views and her debating style so much of an irritation that I stuck her on ignore a long time ago, so yes, it may be that I have a sanitised view of her antics. I'm not especially surprised or disappointed to see her cross this particular line, though. I expect it will be the sleeping pills, or something



I just knew her here as a bit of a laugh, sometimes silly, sometimes passionate. I seriously had no idea of the other stuff 

I dread to hear the pro-Tommy views from friends and associates when I visit the UK. It will be awkward because there _are_ people out there who see him as reasonable and representing their concerns.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 11, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> I seriously had no idea of the other stuff



Nor me, so when I read her first post from last night, I thought is was some sort of misjudged attempt at trolling, but clearly not, what a total fuckwit.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 11, 2018)

Cheesy has been pissing me off for months. Pulled her up on her self obsessed shit only yesterday.

The Alt Right fan girl fawning was vomit inducing


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Nor me, so when I read her first post from last night, I thought is was some sort of misjudged attempt at trolling, but clearly not, what a total fuckwit.



Yeah, as the ban is permanent, it looks like it wasn't drunken trolling. Another case of when urbanites go bad. What a shame.


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 11, 2018)

Defending twats was always kind of a theme but it used to be Pete Doherty instead of Tommy Robinson.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 11, 2018)

Yossarian said:


> Defending twats was always kind of a theme but it used to be Pete Doherty instead of Tommy Robinson.


The Milo and Ivanka stuff was the limit for many I think.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 11, 2018)

They are amongst us! 

Friends in Barnsley are looking helplessly on as TR's crowd (and worse) hoover up support in working class areas. The betrayal of the working class as exemplified by Rotherham etc has really hit home. Brexit? They couldn't really give a fuck. We deride those to whom TR appeals but don't seem to understand his broader appeal.

Jesus, it's like a fucking pincer movement with Eton fash and football fash coming together.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

Poi E said:


> They are amongst us!
> 
> Friends in Barnsley are looking helplessly on as TR's crowd (and worse) hoover up support in working class areas. The betrayal of the working class as exemplified by Rotherham etc has really hit home. Brexit? They couldn't really give a fuck. We deride those to whom TR appeals but don't seem to understand his broader appeal.
> 
> Jesus, it's like a fucking pincer movement with Eton fash and football fash coming together.


This is what years of vote Labour without illusions leads to


----------



## phillm (Jun 11, 2018)

Can't be long before the inevitable Trump tweet appears .....


----------



## Poi E (Jun 11, 2018)

I really shouldn't have started my day with this thread.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 11, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> This is what years of vote Labour without illusions leads to



Is an English National Party advocating independence a good way of picking up ex-Labour voters?


----------



## phillm (Jun 11, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah - we know that makes a more saleable picture though... There were definitely teenagers there, but what I mean is that there wasn't (IMO) specifically an age divide. Younger lads might have done it but plenty of older folk were very happy to mix it up with the police.
> 
> When it kicked off around Downing Street I was over the other side but people there were agreeing with the speakers who were saying to stop it. It didn't last for very long when I was there.



They haven't learnt the importance of all black and masks yet would offend their fash-ion sensibilities.....As his kinder ,gentler alter ego would say it's gonna be a long hot summer fron now on.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 11, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> I dread to hear the pro-Tommy views from friends and associates when I visit the UK


Cheesy is Irish, though.

"Pro-Tommy" views aren't limited to the UK. They appear to have been taken up by the internet alt right.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

phillm said:


> They haven't learnt the importance of all black and masks yet would offend their fash-ion sensibilities.....As his kinder ,gentler alter ego would say it's gonna be a long hot summer fron now on.



Sadly unlikely to be like a summer with a thousand julys


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Cheesy is Irish, though.
> 
> "Pro-Tommy" views aren't limited to the UK. They appear to have been taken up by the internet alt right.


Didn't think she'd end up an architect of the resurrection tho


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Cheesy is Irish, though.
> 
> "Pro-Tommy" views aren't limited to the UK. They appear to have been taken up by the internet alt right.



True. I've seen it on Irish and Japanese sites. Sorry, didn't mean to single out the UK for the rise of alt right rubbish.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 11, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Didn't think she'd end up an architect of the resurrection tho


The right in Ireland isn't all as niche as that, sad to say.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Cheesy is Irish, though.
> 
> "Pro-Tommy" views aren't limited to the UK. They appear to have been taken up by the internet alt right.


i'm surprised the yaxleyites haven't turned to kipling


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jun 11, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I found both her views and her debating style so much of an irritation that I stuck her on ignore a long time ago, so yes, it may be that I have a sanitised view of her antics. I'm not especially surprised or disappointed to see her cross this particular line, though. I expect it will be the sleeping pills, or something



Fair. I had her on ignore until this morning when I saw a poster commenting on a different thread she'd been banned and my nosey parker-ness got the better of me


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

Thimble Queen said:


> Fair. I had her on ignore until this morning when I saw a poster commenting on a different thread she'd been banned and my nosey parker-ness got the better of me


turned out nice again?


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Jun 11, 2018)

History suggests movements such as this destroy themselves from within.
It happened with the NF and BNP as well as other various factions. 
My concern though is that this current street organisation seems to be attracting more “middle of the road” types than on previous occasions.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

mystic pyjamas said:


> History suggests movements such as this destroy themselves from within.
> It happened with the NF and BNP as well as other various factions.
> My concern though is that this current street organisation seems to be attracting more “middle of the road” types than on previous occasions.


yeh. but that's street movements for you, some people like to walk on the right of the road, others prefer the middle.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> The right in Ireland isn't all as niche as that, sad to say.



Indeed, danny. I had to stop looking in on those sites as it was just utterly depressing. On a positive note, they do seem to be still in their infancy. Hopefully there will be no Tommy equivalents to grab headlines.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 11, 2018)

mystic pyjamas said:


> History suggests movements such as this destroy themselves from within.
> It happened with the NF and BNP as well as other various factions.
> My concern though is that this current street organisation seems to be attracting more “middle of the road” types than on previous occasions.


 
its attracting people who are fucked off and disillushioned by the UK political process& its self interest  and the grinding shitiness of the system on their lives. I am as guilty of taking the piss as much as anyone, but to label this entire bloc as fash & racist isn't wholly useful & certainly not accurate ( not that this is a dig at anyone on here btw) . I am deeply concerned that the vacuum is being filled by seemingly well funded and halfway organised groups like this lot.


----------



## LDC (Jun 11, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm surprised the yaxleyites haven't turned to kipling
> 
> View attachment 137870



If they do it's ALL YOUR FAULT now!


----------



## LDC (Jun 11, 2018)

phillm said:


> Can't be long before the inevitable Trump tweet appears .....




OMFG, a little bit of me just died.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 11, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Indeed, danny. I had to stop looking in on those sites as it was just utterly depressing. On a positive note, they do seem to be still in their infancy. Hopefully there will be no Tommy equivalents to grab headlines.


I'm not sure what's in its infancy. Ideas or current organisations? Far right ideas in Ireland, for example, go back to Eoin O'Duffy and beyond. And from that source infected the political mainstream in the republic.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm not sure what's in its infancy. Ideas or current organisations? Far right ideas in Ireland, for example, go back to Eoin O'Duffy and beyond. And from that source infected the political mainstream in the republic.


yeh yeats had some rather peculiar ideas - look at his 'castle of heroes' notion which he spent much of the 1890s working on, and recruited support for his vision of a celtic magical order within the hermetic order of the golden dawn.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm not sure what's in its infancy. Ideas or current organisations? Far right ideas in Ireland, for example, go back to Eoin O'Duffy and beyond. And from that source infected the political mainstream in the republic.



In my time, there was an annoying person called Aine Ni Chonaill from Immigration Control Platform who told me that "working class people don't want to see Dublin become downtown Brixton or Lagos". I told her that was being patronising and smearing working class people. I also asked her if she'd ever been to either of the two places she spoke of in such a negative fashion. She hadn't.

As for EOD, good call. But that's back in the 30s again.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 11, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> As for EOD, good call. But that's back in the 30s again.


Sure, and I don't want to go on a massive off-topic detour, but my point was just that the ideas of the right didn't spring into being with Richard Spencer.  And that Ireland's mainstream political milieu was from the beginning of the republic infected with blood and soil nationalism.  Sadly, Yeats had more influence than Connolly, and although Dev outlawed the Blueshirts, politically he had more in common with O'Duffy than Connolly.  The Blueshirts might have dissolved into FG (and my friends in Ireland still call FG "the Blueshirts"), but FF had just as much of a rightwing social and cultural base, and Dev built himself an adulation cult and positioned himself as a redemptive national leader above pluralist politics.  The two main parties were therefore law-and-order-right or populist-right.

Not that this is related to an alt right influence in Ireland _organisationally,_ which is why I asked the question "organisation or ideas?  But there is much fertile soil (and blood) for it to take root in.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 11, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> , but to label this entire bloc as fash & racist isn't wholly useful & certainly not accurate ( not that this is a dig at anyone on here btw) .


All racist is accurate isn't it?
or is it a case of agreeing with "I'm not racist but...."


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jun 11, 2018)

dweller said:


> This is gonna be the next one. There is a remainers one planned for the same day.
> Someone on twitter is saying that provocations are being planned.
> 
> 
> ...



Defo looks like a provocation. 
Patrick is preoccupied with Putin’s “alternative warfare” - so his interest in this probably links to Russian intel/RT propaganda/strategy of disruption. Certainly people should “follow the money”.
If it did kick off on the day between the FBPE crowd and the Alt-Right it would serve the persecution and “coming conflict/showdown” narrative of both as well as the aforementioned Putinist/Duginist strategy of disruption. It might also serve as pretext for UK security services and establishment to begin openly preparing for a crackdown that would serve their interests in preparation for March 2019.

The key factors which make the current UK far right situation different to the EDL 5 or 6 years ago are the coming and departing of UKIPs electoral strategy (which achieved the primary aim of getting a Brexit vote),  the flow of cash and support from the international new right and the social media power of their operations in lockstep with Putins troll farms.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 11, 2018)

Cant see that big a turn out for the 23rd as its a Saturday with 3 World Cup matches on it - would have thought (naively perhaps) that this crowd would prefer an all day session watching the football... plus England are playing on the 24th, so who would want to go up on the Sat, cause a bit of hoo haa, get banged up overnight, have to deal with Sunday trains and miss the opportunity cheer on Ingerlaaaand with their shirts off?


----------



## dweller (Jun 11, 2018)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> Defo looks like a provocation.
> Patrick is preoccupied with Putin’s “alternative warfare” - so his interest in this probably links to Russian intel/RT propaganda/strategy of disruption. Certainly people should “follow the money”.
> If it did kick off on the day between the FBPE crowd and the Alt-Right it would serve the persecution and “coming conflict/showdown” narrative of both as well as the aforementioned Putinist/Duginist strategy of disruption. It might also serve as pretext for UK security services and establishment to begin openly preparing for a crackdown that would serve their interests in preparation for March 2019.
> 
> The key factors which make the current UK far right situation different to the EDL 5 or 6 years ago are the coming and departing of UKIPs electoral strategy (which achieved the primary aim of getting a Brexit vote),  the flow of cash and support from the international new right and the social media power of their operations in lockstep with Putins troll farms.



Interesting. 
Having been to the last few Remain marches I have never seen such a soft bunch of "down with that sort of thing" non-violent protesters.
 It would have to be quite a plan to turn the visuals into them smashing things up and fighting the police and the fash.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> The key factors which make the current UK far right situation different to the EDL 5 or 6 years ago are the coming and departing of UKIPs electoral strategy (which achieved the primary aim of getting a Brexit vote),  the flow of cash and support from the international new right and the social media power of their operations in lockstep with Putins troll farms.


you make it sound like there's no domestic money in the far right. which as anyone who's heard of the likes of jim dowson knows is wide of the mark. there is currently no far right / radical right party worth the name - you point out ukip's departure, but you might as well look at the bnp's absence too: although to be fair the bnp hasn't entirely gone away as britain first, the new british union, the yaxleyites and indeed the waterers can all attest.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 11, 2018)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

Jeff Robinson said:


>



it's a joy to see that picture so frequently


----------



## Struwwelpeter (Jun 11, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> there is currently no far right / radical right party worth the name - you point out ukip's departure...



The current centre of power in the Tory party is pretty much where UKIP was and they will probably risk riding the Windrush storm and go back to May's "hostile to immigration" ways pretty quickly when they realise there is support in trad Labour heartlands for it.  Radical maybe not, but pretty far right from my perspective.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

Struwwelpeter said:


> The current centre of power in the Tory party is pretty much where UKIP was and they will probably risk riding the Windrush storm and go back to May's "hostile to immigration" ways pretty quickly when they realise there is support in trad Labour heartlands for it.  Radical maybe not, but pretty far right from my perspective.


they are very vulnerable to a ukip mark 2 or a new british national party, the demand remains out there but not the supply. the conservatives may be racist. they may be the nasty party. but they carry a lot of baggage with them. if a well-funded party with a vaguely charismatic leader emerged - and frankly this isn't impossible - it could have a great impact. where previous parties have fallen down have been on issues like a nazi past, on funding being pulled, on a lack of credible candidates, on their policies being stolen by a mainstream party... as we've seen with people like stephen yaxley-lennon and paul golding it's quite possible for in the first case an utterly unknown member of the bnp or, in the second, a former director of publicity and councillor to have an influence far greater than might have been expected. the demand's out there. is the supply?


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jun 11, 2018)

Pickman’s:
Yes, there definitely is domestic money, and purely domestic/commercial aspects to the current far right surge. As far as Party is concerned, I am not sure how important that is in the Internet age - it is more about advancing an agenda as part of an international movement - a bit how the left operated for a long time - including the relationship of some of the left (and now some of the right) with foreign intelligence and “business” interests. 
Dweller: 
As far as the “fluffy” nature of the FBPE elements, that is as maybe - I think the aggressors would come from the other side. It would only take a tiny minority (and provocateurs?) on both sides to provide the agenda builders with their “money shots”...

Have to admit, still find it highly unlikely, but we live in the age of the unlikely, real life trolling, fake news and all....


----------



## Struwwelpeter (Jun 11, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> they are very vulnerable to a ukip mark 2 or a new british national party, the demand remains out there but not the supply. the conservatives may be racist. they may be the nasty party. but they carry a lot of baggage with them. if a well-funded party with a vaguely charismatic leader emerged - and frankly this isn't impossible - it could have a great impact. where previous parties have fallen down have been on issues like a nazi past, on funding being pulled, on a lack of credible candidates, on their policies being stolen by a mainstream party... as we've seen with people like stephen yaxley-lennon and paul golding it's quite possible for in the first case an utterly unknown member of the bnp or, in the second, a former director of publicity and councillor to have an influence far greater than might have been expected. the demand's out there. is the supply?



I agree that charismatic leaders are somewhat lacking across the political spectrum. ("Oh, Jeremy Corbyn..." repeat ad nauseam being last summer's meme only I think).  So it wouldn't take someone of great quality to look good against the rest.  And such a movement would grow far quicker if they hijacked an existing mainstream party than if they started from scratch.


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Jun 11, 2018)

Struwwelpeter said:


> The current centre of power in the Tory party is pretty much where UKIP was and they will probably risk riding the Windrush storm and go back to May's "hostile to immigration" ways pretty quickly when they realise there is support in trad Labour heartlands for it.  Radical maybe not, but pretty far right from my perspective.


This is what Thatcher did in the 1979 GE.
Robbed the NF of their clothing and put a respectable shiny gloss to it.


----------



## LDC (Jun 11, 2018)

bimble said:


> View attachment 137863
> the ones to watch.



The Jacob Rees Mogg commando.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 11, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> The Jacob Rees Mogg commando.


Oh, thanks. Now I need the mind bleach.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, thanks. Now I need the mind bleach.


here you go


----------



## ddraig (Jun 11, 2018)

also meant to be the RTS thing on 23rd


----------



## ddraig (Jun 11, 2018)

Press TV but it's a video of march trying to attack Al-Quds march


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Press TV but it's a video of march trying to attack Al-Quds march



I see an endless stream of ugly, bald overweight white men.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 11, 2018)

editor said:


> ugly, bald overweight white men


The song of my people!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

editor said:


> I see an endless stream of ugly, bald overweight white men.


and that's just the cops


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

ddraig said:


> also meant to be the RTS thing on 23rd


fun fun fun


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 11, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> The song of my people!


Hard to work out which is the most disgusting, the baldness, the whiteness the being overweight or a march that calls for the total annihilation of another state and its people.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 11, 2018)

It's baldness, isn't it?

I knew it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Hard to work out which is the most disgusting, the baldness, the whiteness the being overweight or a march that calls for the total annihilation of another state and its people.


it's the combination tbh


----------



## campanula (Jun 11, 2018)

It is an inner ugliness which renders the external reality of jowly white men irrelevant, compared to the seething poison infecting these people's self-expression..


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Press TV but it's a video of march trying to attack Al-Quds march



Not sure if you're posting that in relation to the 23rd and potential trouble or if Press tv have been saying this was on last weekend?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 11, 2018)

that it was last weekend
thought it was, apols if not


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2018)

ddraig said:


> that it was last weekend
> thought it was, apols if not


Nah, it June 23rd each year - same date as the proposed march talked about earlier.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 11, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Nah, it June 23rd each year - same date as the proposed march talked about earlier.


video not from this weekend then, ta


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2018)




----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2018)

editor said:


>




He should get an oscar for that, the tool


----------



## agricola (Jun 11, 2018)

ddraig said:


> video not from this weekend then, ta



I think it is from this weekend; that is the route the march went down and the banners look the same.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

ddraig said:


> video not from this weekend then, ta


i think there was some do outside the saudi embassy on the weekend.


----------



## bimble (Jun 11, 2018)

I just looked it up and seems its not illegal to do a nazi salute in this country (it is in germany sweden and a few others). Wonder what was he arrested for then that twat in the video above?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

bimble said:


> I just looked it up and seems its not illegal to do a nazi salute in this country (it is in germany sweden and a few others). Wonder what was he arrested for then that twat in the video above?


section 5 public order act perhaps, behaviour likely to cause a breach of the peace, obstruct pc, assault pc...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 11, 2018)

bimble said:


> I just looked it up and seems its not illegal to do a nazi salute in this country (it is in germany sweden and a few others). Wonder what was he arrested for then that twat in the video above?


Criminal over acting.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 11, 2018)

He will have been told to react like that when arrested and the cameras are on. Great clip to be edited into a far right montage.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 11, 2018)

bimble said:


> I just looked it up and seems its not illegal to do a nazi salute in this country (it is in germany sweden and a few others). Wonder what was he arrested for then that twat in the video above?



No-one was arrested for giving them in George Square on the night of the indy ref. I'd assumed it was some old Orange/protestant/British thing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2018)

Poi E said:


> He will have been told to react like that when arrested and the cameras are on. Great clip to be edited into a far right montage.


with 'mulsamic ray guns' playing over it


----------



## marty21 (Jun 11, 2018)

There was a picture shared of a 2005 Liverpool victory parade claiming it was the Tommy Robinson march in London.  This idiot had it pointed out to him , edited his post but because so many people liked a fake picture , this is still important or something


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2018)

It’ll be the nude bike race again in a minute.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 11, 2018)

editor said:


>



He's pretty crap at both a nazi salute and feigning pain. Fucking hell. I involuntarily laughed but out of sheer WTF uncomfortableness the kind of feeling you get when football players dive then roll around screaming because another player came near them or a toddler throws a tantrum because it can't play with fire or something equally unsuitable/dangerous. Instant recovery mode happened just after the twit was put in the van yeah? 

It just occurred to me that the nazi salute is actually an 'historical' example of throwing up gang signs. I wish it would fuck off back into history though.


----------



## marty21 (Jun 11, 2018)

Here's the original tweet for context, I guess this Besagni idiot is arguing that even though the picture is not of the march , the fact that so many people liked it , shows support for #littletommyrobinson


----------



## bemused (Jun 11, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> He's pretty crap at both a nazi salute and feigning pain. Fucking hell. I involuntarily laughed but out of sheer WTF uncomfortableness the kind of feeling you get when football players dive then roll around screaming because another player came near them or a toddler throws a tantrum because it can't play with fire or something equally unsuitable/dangerous. Instant recovery mode happened just after the twit was put in the van yeah?
> 
> It just occurred to me that the nazi salute is actually an 'historical' example of throwing up gang signs. I wish it would fuck off back into history though.



I think he was trying to troll the people chanting 'Nazi scum' at him, didn't work out well for him. The best bit of that video is the officer trying to handcuff him holding hands up as the guy is screaming basically thinking 'what the fuck?'


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2018)




----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2018)




----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 11, 2018)

bemused said:


> I think he was trying to troll the people chanting 'Nazi scum' at him, didn't work out well for him. The best bit of that video is the officer trying to handcuff him holding hands up as the guy is scream basically thinking 'what the fuck?'




I think you are being too generous thinking that his salute was an ironic/trolling one..but yeah, grade A bellend.

Another point... I keep having little flashbacks to the video of thug/fash/hooligans shouting _fascist scum_ at the police stood outside Downing street whilst spitting, lobbing stuff, attacking and grimacing... It's one of those visual/sensory moments that are reality twisting and need a replay or two before filing.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 11, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> He should get an oscar for that, the tool


No he fucking shouldn't . Bloody ludicrous performance, barely believable. Reminiscent of a footballer taking a dive, or something.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 11, 2018)

Poi E said:


> He will have been told to react like that when arrested and the cameras are on. Great clip to be edited into a far right montage.


I rather liked the way the copper lifted his hands away (presumably for the benefit of the camera), and the strangulated tantrumming continued...


----------



## Athos (Jun 11, 2018)

He's holding a 'free speech' banner, whilst showing open support for Nazism.  The Nazis being famed for their commitment to free speech!


----------



## colacubes (Jun 11, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


>



As a complete aside I hope he gave that hire bike a wipe down after using it  I have no problem with the naked bike ride but use your own bike surely


----------



## Reiabuzz (Jun 11, 2018)

I appreciate this won’t go down too well, but banning people with views like cheesypoof is surely missing the point of a discussion forum. Know your enemy and all that.

I once went to a wedding in rural Virginia where I met several bush supporters and actually learned a lot about why/how they could have voted for such a cunt. They explained their reasoning and I learned from it.

Sorry, devils advocate and all that. I’d like to know how any rational person could possibly support Tommy fucking Robinson.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 11, 2018)

No rational person can, so that idea can be canned.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> I appreciate this won’t go down too well, but banning people with views like cheesypoof is surely missing the point of a discussion forum. Know your enemy and all that.
> 
> I once went to a wedding in rural Virginia where I met several bush supporters and actually learned a lot about why/how they could have voted for such a cunt. They explained their reasoning and I learned from it.
> 
> Sorry, devils advocate and all that. I’d like to know how any rational person could possibly support Tommy fucking Robinson.


Then you won't want to hear from cheesypoof.

edit: You don't know her near 20 record on here. Lots of others do. It's not nice.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Jun 11, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> No rational person can, so that idea can be canned.



So should we just agree with each other, all the time?

This guy has quite a lot of support out there. Let’s find out why. This is supposed to be a fairly open forum. I completely disagree with her views but she’s entitled to them.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2018)

I’m interested in why the wc are attracted to Robinson, less so about celebrity worshipping nobs who work in journalism.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 11, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> So should we just agree with each other, all the time?
> 
> This guy has quite a lot of support out there. Let’s find out why. This is supposed to be a fairly open forum. I completely disagree with her views but she’s entitled to them.


Of course, and of course. But you do not understand as you've only been here two years the utter absurdity of using cheesypoof as a synecdoche for wider support tommy robinson and associated types may have developed and on what basis. You really do not. To do so would be counter-productive to the debate that you say that you want to have (and given your posts after brexit i'm not at all sure you want or are prepared for that debate).


----------



## bimble (Jun 11, 2018)

I agree with the principle but seriously attempts last year to draw her out about Milo suggested she really can’t help with that, won’t / can’t actually answer questions about what she finds attractive about these people beyond just their fame and their hairstyles.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jun 11, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> So should we just agree with each other, all the time?
> 
> This guy has quite a lot of support out there. Let’s find out why. This is supposed to be a fairly open forum. I completely disagree with her views but she’s entitled to them.


Rule #1 here is 'don't be a dick' and she was an annoying fucking alt right dick


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 11, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> So should we just agree with each other, all the time?



No.



> This guy has quite a lot of support out there. Let’s find out why. This is supposed to be a fairly open forum. I completely disagree with her views but she’s entitled to them.



And, you think you could find the answers from a self obsessed nutjob, without a scooby doo? 

ETA: Although, on reflection, most TR supporters are nutjobs, without a scooby doo.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Jun 11, 2018)

Ok, well maybe it would make an interesting subject for another thread. Free speech on urban75 that is. 

I'm very conscious of being shot down here and that in my opinion ain't a great thing in itself for a supposedly intelligent and open minded forum. And with that I'm off this thread.




twentythreedom said:


> Rule #1 here is 'don't be a dick' and she was an annoying fucking alt right dick


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 11, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> synecdoche



Ooh, new word. Not sure I'm going to get a good reaction slipping it into conversation down the pub but every day's a school day.


----------



## bimble (Jun 11, 2018)

From what she’s said on here sounds like she fell down a YouTube ‘alt right’ rabbit hole a long time ago and has spent a lot of time watching the things that autosuggest there. What started it would be interesting to know I suppose.


----------



## campanula (Jun 11, 2018)

Months of Russell Brand idolatry - my recollection of basically a first class dimwit. Clueless, selfish, shallow - not missed since she had absolutely nothing of substance to say ...

yep, I am frequently guilty of witless waffling too


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 11, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> Ok, well maybe it would make an interesting subject for another thread. Free speech on urban75 that is.



Start a thread, it would be an interesting conversation.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 11, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m interested in why the wc are attracted to Robinson, less so about celebrity worshipping nobs who work in journalism.


And thats a good question to ask on here. Wonder what the replies will be.


----------



## chilango (Jun 11, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> And thats a good question to ask on here. Wonder what the replies will be.



Another question would be "are they?"

Are significant numbers of the w/c drawn to him?

What's the evidence for this?

I've seen little other than some third hand social media postings and a billboard in a farmer's field in the home counties.

I may of course have missed something.


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 11, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> And thats a good question to ask on here. Wonder what the replies will be.



I'll bite.

What evidence is there that this is some exclusive, or even statistically significant, w/c attraction to this dickhead? Because I'm fairly pissed off with this assertion that it's only w/c people being drawn in by some racist twat. And it certainly shouldn't be framed as "the working class attracted to Robinson" as if the w/c are some homogenous whole, blindly fooled by this idiot when everyone else isn't.

That aside, isn't it always the case that some w/c people, in times of visibly increasing unfair distribution of wealth and opportunity, might look for easy answers. Might look for the latest folk devils (muslims, they're everywhere!) and moral panics (pedos..or even pedo's...they're everywhere!) to divert attention from the more boring and complex answers to what is really a problem with society (distribution of wealth/economic system)?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2018)

He’s now a household name and it’s because people are sharing his videos on social media. Nobody is saying that all the working class are attracted to him or even a majority but the worry is he isn’t being disregarded as a fringe loon like many on the far right (and left!) and is making progress in what is effectively the left’s constituency better than the left is.
I’d caution against the strategy of continued dismissal of it.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 11, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> So should we just agree with each other, all the time?
> 
> This guy has quite a lot of support out there. Let’s find out why. This is supposed to be a fairly open forum. I completely disagree with her views but she’s entitled to them.


I think it's not just the views. She's not really interested in discussing anything, just being faux controversial and gamespersonship.


----------



## LDC (Jun 11, 2018)

From what people have said so far they're using a sociological definition of class right when we're discussing this?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 11, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> And thats a good question to ask on here. Wonder what the replies will be.


 I think TR is a celeb, he fits the celeb worshipping wide boy bill. His colourful background, petty crime and hooliganism endears him to those that have similar w/c, less than  "straight' backgrounds themselves. There is nothing new to see... The issues that we are all facing are systemic but yet again let's pretend that the only problems we have are imported through immigration... He's basically the adult equivalent of the shittest boy band ever..that adults are falling for his patter and self-promotion isn't unusual there is a lot of  the rose tinted,  soft spot for the monarchy, wannabe a kray-twin, up yours if you disagree,  like a punch up but love my mum though attitude amongst us working class people, always had been.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> From what people have said so far they're using a sociological definition of class right when we're discussing this?



Me? I only use the Marxist definition.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 11, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> Ok, well maybe it would make an interesting subject for another thread. Free speech on urban75 that is.
> 
> I'm very conscious of being shot down here and that in my opinion ain't a great thing in itself for a supposedly intelligent and open minded forum. And with that I'm off this thread.


Well, yes. Exactly. 
Urban doesn't do very well with conversations with people who are opposed to our general beliefs. It all goes flaming torches and pitchforks pretty quickly, and nothing good comes out of it. 
Even when its just someone playing devils advocate...

Its a shame, I guess. But I suppose thats the flip side of the positives of this place.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> And thats a good question to ask on here. Wonder what the replies will be.



Are you enjoying them?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> His colourful background, petty crime and hooliganism endears him to those that have similar w/c, less than  "straight' backgrounds themselves.



If you think his appeal is only to the lumpen you’re very very wrong.


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 11, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The drugs forum delivers these types, bizarrely enough, given how the far right view addicts.



little harsh to blame the drugs forum for Cheesy poof dodgy view



and FFS i did not see that coming from her


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 11, 2018)

He's managed to create the back story that he was exposing the grooming gangs alone ten years ago.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jun 11, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Of course, and of course. But you do not understand as you've only been here two years the utter absurdity of using cheesypoof as a synecdoche for wider support tommy robinson and associated types may have developed and on what basis. You really do not. To do so would be counter-productive to the debate that you say that you want to have (and given your posts after brexit i'm not at all sure you want or are prepared for that debate).



He's been around longer than that. He had another log in previously but got perma banned.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 11, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> If you think his appeal is only to the lumpen you’re very very wrong.


How about you engage with what I actually post or not at all.


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 11, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Cheesy is Irish, though.
> 
> "Pro-Tommy" views aren't limited to the UK. They appear to have been taken up by the internet alt right.



these fuckers have been targetting ireland for a while with the alt right shit


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> little harsh to blame the drugs forum for Cheesy poof dodgy view



And others. Like sonicdancer and his sudden reappearance, METHLAB also had very questionable views. Amongst others.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> How about you engage with what I actually post or not at all.



You didn’t post what I quoted?


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 11, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And others. Like sonicdancer and his sudden reappearance, METHLAB also had very questionable views. Amongst others.



Methlabs views were all over the fucking place

as the maker of ambien said Racism is not a side effect of drug use

other forums have had people who were racist appear and be banned
and people who been around for a while who were then banned for being racist

saying the Drug forum brings it in is fucking odd  seeming as it been almost dead for 3 years


Chessypoof has disappeared down the rabbit hole of the Right wing propaganda that been thrown about for the past few years



the fact she posted in the drugs forum has fuck all to do with it


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 11, 2018)

Analysis: the 15,000 strong ‘Free Tommy’ demo and what it means for the new far right in Britain


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> Methlabs views were all over the fucking place
> 
> as the maker of ambien said Racism is not a side effect of drug use
> 
> ...



Of course not but for what is essentially a left/liberal hangout, the DF has always drawn in different clientele.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 11, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You didn’t post what I quoted?


I posted a range of ways that he appeals to the w/c..that you chose a few words/one aspect to misrepresent my opinion is pretty fucking boring still, after all these years....also I don't think I have ever used or wanted to use the description ''lumpen'. Again, you misrepresent my thinking.


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 11, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Of course not but for what is essentially a left/liberal hangout, the DF has always drawn in different clientele.



 if she had posted that shit into the drug forum

she would of been pulled for it

anyways


----------



## hot air baboon (Jun 11, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> these fuckers have been targetting ireland for a while with the alt right shit



I mean I'm not a racist but....what is it with all these Irish Catholic types - Steve Bannon, Stephen "Tommmeee" Lennon, Anne Marie Waters, Morrissey, Cheesypoof ?      ...the Alt-Rite ?


----------



## treelover (Jun 11, 2018)

editor said:


> I see an endless stream of ugly, bald overweight white men.



No, 'ill fitting suits' though.



Red Sky said:


> Analysis: the 15,000 strong ‘Free Tommy’ demo and what it means for the new far right in Britain




I was waiting for some in depth analysis then saw it was by Martin Smith, late, sort of, of the SWP, aka Comrade Delta, so no thanks.


----------



## Ax^ (Jun 11, 2018)

well to 3 of them it appears to be identifying as British *shrugs* also morrissey has always been a cunt


cheesypoof more than like taking the wrong turn whilst in recovery and lost in the 12 step bullshit

and Bannon not sure if aside from him supporting Kennedy he got much to do with ireland


saying that Ireland as i can say from my life time is a odd place which used to be somewhere you emigrated from not to
plus the social changes the loss of the power of the church and changes in the social acceptance of many issue in the last decades

its an easy target for these cunts to prey upon the lost white working class folks who think they have been left behind


----------



## Humberto (Jun 11, 2018)

I don't think they have won the 'argument'. Rather that depravity, bluster and misplaced pride can lead to loudmouth types having their 15 minutes. I don't expect it to really go anywhere. He has probably had whatever teeth or claws he had pulled out to some extent. We should be boisterous in our response, not worried/afraid. Courage of your convictions and all that.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 11, 2018)

treelover said:


> No, 'ill fiiting suits' though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Despite the source....


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 12, 2018)

The appeal of this case seems largely based on people who are allergic to looking beyond the surface of anything. It's just one instance of a major problem affecting political culture. I daresay it's always been there but the way discourse works in the 2nd decade of widespread internet use seems to be amplifying things.

The case also underlines the uniting of US and UK far right paranoia on the internet. It's backed by big money of course, and as far removed from the genuine interests of the working class as far-right politics ever were.

It's hard to balance assessment of Saturday's demo between complacency and semi-panic.

I dunno if it's just me, but I'd be slow to take up any refrain that the left must be to blame in some way. Not everything is our fault. Sometimes people are cunts or easily led entirely of their own volition. Of course the right and some others will blame the left. They blame the left for everything, and often plenty of others too...women, gays, jews, liberals, academics...


----------



## Raheem (Jun 12, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> I mean I'm not a racist but....what is it with all these Irish Catholic types - Steve Bannon, Stephen "Tommmeee" Lennon, Anne Marie Waters, Morrissey, Cheesypoof ?      ...the Alt-Rite ?



Ult-roit, surely?


----------



## toblerone3 (Jun 12, 2018)

Corb


treelover said:


> No, 'ill fitting suits' though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Putting your knee jerk tribalism to one side for a moment, which bits you not agree with?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 12, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> I mean I'm not a racist but....what is it with all these Irish Catholic types - Steve Bannon, Stephen "Tommmeee" Lennon, Anne Marie Waters, Morrissey, Cheesypoof ?      ...the Alt-Rite ?



Well, Bannon is not Irish, neither is Lennon, Waters identifies as being British, as does Morrissey and wasn't really aware of Cheesypoof's nationality/ethnicity.

What is it with them? Attention seeking, perhaps. Felt wronged by life? That kinda thing.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> knee jerk tribalism


Wait a minute. It's "knee jerk tribalism" to find Comrade Delta repugnant?  Sorry, you're wrong.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

Oh and, no, being of Irish heritage doesn't make you right wing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

treelover said:


> No, 'ill fitting suits' though.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Auld tory treelover weighs in.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And others. Like sonicdancer and his sudden reappearance, METHLAB also had very questionable views. Amongst others.


The rise of the fashfinder general


----------



## toblerone3 (Jun 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Wait a minute. It's "knee jerk tribalism" to find Comrade Delta repugnant?  Sorry, you're wrong.



I don't know who he is and why he is supposed to be repugnant, but surely its stupid to refuse to read something when it has potentially good information. Which bit of his article did you find repugnant?


----------



## ska invita (Jun 12, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> I don't know who he is and why he is supposed to be repugnant, but surely its stupid to refuse to read something when it has potentially good information. Which bit of his article did you find repugnant?


Is because he's a rapist/abuser ... And then SWP leadership tried to brush it aside, cue lots of people leaving the SWP. It was worse than im describing it


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> I don't know who he is and why he is supposed to be repugnant


Google "Comrade Delta".


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 12, 2018)

Struwwelpeter said:


> The current centre of power in the Tory party is pretty much where UKIP was and they will probably risk riding the Windrush storm and go back to May's "hostile to immigration" ways pretty quickly when they realise there is support in trad Labour heartlands for it.  Radical maybe not, but pretty far right from my perspective.



How it will help the tories is that it will become a lightening rod for the activist left, while they’re raging at Tommy they’re letting May off the hook over the NHS, housing and everything else that has a more direct impact on people’s lives (for now). I think this is why the tories liked UKIP too, go after class clown Farage and let nice Cameron and Osborne get on with filleting the state. It makes them look not so bad in comparison, but they have actual power and are using it against the public.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Raheem said:


> Ult-roit, surely?


ult-rot


----------



## toblerone3 (Jun 12, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Is because he's a rapist/abuser ... And then SWP leadership tried to brush it aside, cue lots of people leaving the SWP. It was worse than im describing it



Well I didn't know that, but which bit of his article did you find repugnant? People read things and glean information from people who've done far worse.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> Well I didn't know that, but which bit of his article did you find repugnant?


The intentions?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> Well I didn't know that, but which bit of his article did you find repugnant? People read things and glean information from people who've done far worse.


just the words


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 12, 2018)

How long until some edgy BBC producer decides to have him on Question Time because it’ll be provocative and good for ratings?

First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then they invite you onto Question Time, mock you on social media and convince themselves you’ve lost...


----------



## toblerone3 (Jun 12, 2018)

Well I take back the mudsling word "tribalist" but I not knowing anything about him I still found the article interesting. That is all.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> Well I take back the mudsling word "tribalist" but I not knowing anything about him I still found the article interesting. That is all.


That's the problem: he's trying to rehabilitate himself.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> That's the problem: he's trying to rehabilitate himself.


He's trying to do a bit more than that. He's trying to reposition himself as the great anti fascist leader again, but this time as analyst rather than embarrassing running man in an ill fitting polo. A back seat driver string puller but, importantly  still offering only uaf style approaches. He is actually working hand in hand with the comrades to stich up any responses  So they come under their guidance again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Ooh, new word. Not sure I'm going to get a good reaction slipping it into conversation down the pub but every day's a school day.


after a dozen pints every word sounds like synedoche


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> I appreciate this won’t go down too well, but banning people with views like cheesypoof is surely missing the point of a discussion forum. Know your enemy and all that.
> 
> I once went to a wedding in rural Virginia where I met several bush supporters and actually learned a lot about why/how they could have voted for such a cunt. They explained their reasoning and I learned from it.
> 
> Sorry, devils advocate and all that. I’d like to know how any rational person could possibly support Tommy fucking Robinson.


are you the poster formerly known as gabi?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> after a dozen pints every word sounds like synedoche


Or bits of them do.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Or bits of them do.


d'ye sin then ducky etc


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

I suppose that's why my stand up career never took off.  

*Waits for people other than librarians to "like" my synecdoche gag*


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> are you the poster formerly known as gabi?


That would certainly explain their bizarre posts on the cricket threads.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 12, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> Well I didn't know that, but which bit of his article did you find repugnant? People read things and glean information from people who've done far worse.


i havent read it, i was just filling you in.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I suppose that's why my stand up career never took off.
> 
> *Waits for people other than librarians to "like" my synecdoche gag*


have a pity like


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> are you the poster formerly known as gabi?



Ah good spot.


----------



## chilango (Jun 12, 2018)

A few things worth thinking about before attempting to evaluate Tommy Robinson's appeal (or not) to the working class.

Why are we talking about the working class in particular? A mass appeal amongst the middle classes would be of concern too. Certainly electorally. However, I would argue that we should be more concerned about the w/c because our movement(s) need to be built from, in, and by, the working class if we are to build an alternative to capitalism rather than push fpr reforms within it. Y'know. Marx and the proletariat and that. That's why the far-right building in the w/c is of specific interest to us.

We've already discussed the vacuum left by the retreat of the Left seemingly _ad infinitum_. The BNP vote and then the UKIP vote show that there's a sustained audience for the far-right to exploit. At the moment the absence of an electoral vehicle leaves the stage empty for someone new. Concerning as it is a few thousand bodies on demos and trending hashtags on social media (or whatever) are not at the same level. Yet. There's no reason to doubt that something, or someone will though.

Interesting to flip the situation and consider how we'd be feeling if Tommy Robinson was one of us. Would be we be happy with 10k on an A-B march and retweets? No. We wouldn't surely? We've put many x those numbers on the streets and nothing much has come of it. Tommy Robinson has a bit of a media profile but is far from a credible, unifying figure for the Right. Yet. Nor is he a household name. At least no more so than, say, Owen Jones is for us. 

TL;DR It's all still to play for.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh and, no, being of Irish heritage doesn't make you right wing.



Which reminds me, sadly, of this. A _few_ who were seduced by Tommy's bs.

Large numbers of second generation Irish in far-right group, leader claims

I met a few Irish heritage people who bought into all that. But more Irish people who didn't.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> How it will help the tories is that it will become a lightening rod for the activist left, while they’re raging at Tommy they’re letting May off the hook over the NHS, housing and everything else that has a more direct impact on people’s lives (for now). I think this is why the tories liked UKIP too, go after class clown Farage and let nice Cameron and Osborne get on with filleting the state. It makes them look not so bad in comparison, but they have actual power and are using it against the public.



its not either or though is it? fascism and the ideas it spreads needs to be confronted whenever it rears its head - and that very often means on the street. and austerity needs to be challenged and overturned. i cant see why you cant do both - and both require different approaches.
The tommy robinson stuff and attendant rise of far right/islamophobic street politics is being studiously ignored by the media (very little coverage of the sat demo - and numbers described as being in the 100s)  - but the toxin is out there. We are seeing hysterical and frightening levels of islamophobia that is permeating throughout popular discourse. 
And the tories did not like UKIP - it was taking a big bite out of their vote share - hence the brexit referendum and the "hostile environment" stuff.
 It also feeds into -  and is fed -  by the brexit process/debacle - the suspicious, paranoid, racist, nationalist daily mail world view is helps create a climate of acceptability for the likes of robinson - a patriotic brit, bravely taking on the pernicious elitist establishment, speaking truth to power and being punished for it etc etc etc. "Somebody needs to take  a stand". "At least hes trying to do something".


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

chilango said:


> Nor is he a household name. At least no more so than, say, Owen Jones is for us.



Where do you get this idea from? I see old school friends on social media discussing him and hear him mentioned in the pub.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

chilango Indeed. Wanting to test the household name theory, I asked 5 people I've seen this morning (two of them members of my immediate family [my partner and daughter]; a woman I'm related to [a high school dinner lady]; a retired joiner; and a nurse) if they knew who Tommy Robinson was. None of them did. When prompted with details of the contempt case, only the retired joiner was vaguely aware of it. The others had no knowledge of the story. He is the most "political" of them though.

Not scientific, and certainly adds to the image my friends and family have of me as a weirdo. But undermines the idea that he's a household name in those households.

I'd like to see some research on the make-up of his support before I proclaim on what it is that people are attracted to.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Where do you get this idea from? I see old school friends on social media discussing him and hear him mentioned in the pub.


only one person on my facebook has ever mentioned him and they've been very much anti.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Where do you get this idea from? I see old school friends on social media discussing him and hear him mentioned in the pub.


We're discussing him. But I'd argue we're far from typical in many ways.


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Auld tory treelover weighs in.




See Danny's post above


----------



## ska invita (Jun 12, 2018)

chilango said:


> A few things worth thinking about before attempting to evaluate Tommy Robinson's appeal (or not) to the working class.
> 
> Why are we talking about the working class in particular? A mass appeal amongst the middle classes would be of concern too. Certainly electorally. However, I would argue that we should be more concerned about the w/c because our movement(s) need to be built from, in, and by, the working class if we are to build an alternative to capitalism rather than push fpr reforms within it. Y'know. Marx and the proletariat and that. That's why the far-right building in the w/c is of specific interest to us.
> 
> ...


Agree this is nothing new, people who like the message have long been there, it's far from all over etc. What's new is the international connections, increasing mainstreaming of far right thinking, and very effective social media presence, millions of video views etc. It's far from all there yet but the ground looks very fertile. 

On the point of the us-euro bridges the far right is building I'm curious if anyone has an opinion about this piece, which suggests what is lacking from the left are our own international alliances 
The rise of the far right – what is to be done? Opening the debate


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

treelover said:


> See Danny's post above


quoted below


danny la rouge said:


> We're discussing him. But I'd argue we're far from typical in many ways.


what's the relevance, treelover?


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> How it will help the tories is that it will become a lightening rod for the activist left, while they’re raging at Tommy they’re letting May off the hook over the NHS, housing and everything else that has a more direct impact on people’s lives (for now). I think this is why the tories liked UKIP too, go after class clown Farage and let nice Cameron and Osborne get on with filleting the state. It makes them look not so bad in comparison, but they have actual power and are using it against the public.




Biggest thing here atm is the planning for a local TRUMP! demo, again resourced by the rape apologists, oh, the ironing.Never mind, homelessness, people being refused care, etc.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

chilango said:


> A few things worth thinking about before attempting to evaluate Tommy Robinson's appeal (or not) to the working class.
> 
> Why are we talking about the working class in particular? A mass appeal amongst the middle classes would be of concern too. Certainly electorally. However, I would argue that we should be more concerned about the w/c because our movement(s) need to be built from, in, and by, the working class if we are to build an alternative to capitalism rather than push fpr reforms within it. Y'know. Marx and the proletariat and that. That's why the far-right building in the w/c is of specific interest to us.
> 
> ...


i'd be pretty pleased with 10,000 on a march for prisoner solidarity at short notice. pretty fucking pleased.

when was the last left prisoner solidarity event which attracted even a tenth of that number? i do some prisoner solidarity work and it's a good day when we get a dozen or a score to a picket.


----------



## chilango (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Where do you get this idea from? I see old school friends on social media discussing him and hear him mentioned in the pub.



I've never* heard his name in real life conversation. 

*Once, my wife asked me "is that that EDL bloke?" as we drove past the "Pray for Tommy Robinson" billboard on the M40.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> We're discussing him. But I'd argue we're far from typical in many ways.



Well I mean working class people who aren’t in any lefty bubble or part of the organised right.


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> How it will help the tories is that it will become a lightening rod for the activist left, while they’re raging at Tommy they’re letting May off the hook over the NHS, housing and everything else that has a more direct impact on people’s lives (for now). I think this is why the tories liked UKIP too, go after class clown Farage and let nice Cameron and Osborne get on with filleting the state. It makes them look not so bad in comparison, but they have actual power and are using it against the public.



bang on, but watch you are not called a racist/xenophobe for pointing this out(not on here)


----------



## chilango (Jun 12, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Agree this is nothing new, people who like the message have long been there, it's far from all over etc. What's new is the international connections, increasing mainstreaming of far right thinking, and very effective social media presence, millions of video views etc. It's far from all there yet but the ground looks very fertile.
> 
> On the point of the us-euro bridges the far right is building I'm curious if anyone has an opinion about this piece, which suggests what is lacking from the left are our own international alliances
> The rise of the far right – what is to be done? Opening the debate



I'd agree that it isn't just "more of the same". Of course, movements develop. But we need to be cool headed here.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 12, 2018)

treelover said:


> bang on, but watch you are not called a racist/xenophobe for pointing this out(not on here)


If you think this is all a side show you're ignorant of history... And of racist violence


----------



## chilango (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> when was the last left prisoner solidarity event.



when _was_ the last left prisoner solidarity event?


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> its not either or though is it? fascism and the ideas it spreads needs to be confronted whenever it rears its head - and that very often means on the street. and austerity needs to be challenged and overturned. i cant see why you cant do both - and both require different approaches.
> The tommy robinson stuff and attendant rise of far right/islamophobic street politics is being studiously ignored by the media (very little coverage of the sat demo - and numbers described as being in the 100s)  - but the toxin is out there. We are seeing hysterical and frightening levels of islamophobia that is permeating throughout popular discourse.
> And the tories did not like UKIP - it was taking a big bite out of their vote share - hence the brexit referendum and the "hostile environment" stuff.
> It also feeds into -  and is fed -  by the brexit process/debacle - the suspicious, paranoid, racist, nationalist daily mail world view is helps create a climate of acceptability for the likes of robinson - a patriotic brit, bravely taking on the pernicious elitist establishment, speaking truth to power and being punished for it etc etc etc. "Somebody needs to take  a stand". "At least hes trying to do something".



Genuine question, who is doing it in Leeds, fighting austerity?, because here it has largely come to a stop.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

treelover said:


> Genuine question, who is doing it in Leeds, fighting austerity?, because here it has largely come to a stop.


how fortunate you are then, they're still carrying on full steam ahead with austerity in london


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

chilango said:


> when _was_ the last left prisoner solidarity event?


last one i attended was about a month ago.


----------



## chilango (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> i'd be pretty pleased with 10,000 on a march for prisoner solidarity at short notice. pretty fucking pleased.
> 
> when was the last left prisoner solidarity event which attracted even a tenth of that number? i do some prisoner solidarity work and it's a good day when we get a dozen or a score to a picket.



In fairness 10k or 15k on the streets for the far-right (for any any cause) is certainly a quantitive leap. And a worrying one. Is it yet a qualitative leap though?


----------



## chilango (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> last one i attended was about a month ago.



For who?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

chilango said:


> For who?


tony taylor and the craigavon two


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

and where is the evidence that "the working class" are flocking to tommy's banner? his supporters seem to the same demographic as ever - middle aged white blokes with a thing for public displays of machismo and the usual range of narrow minded, bigoted opinions. that is not "the working class" - its a self styled cultural identity that has consciously adopted a stereotype of white working class cultural signifiers. 
I would bet very few of them work in traditional working class professions - more likely to be self employed/small business types - an area with little tradition of collectivism and the traditional recruiting ground for fascism. You aren't going to win these people over with a commitment to better wages, better public services and more council houses - they dont give a fuck. 
its all - immigrants are to blame. islamic takeover. fucking political correctness/europe. welfare scroungers.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> and where is the evidence that "the working class" are flocking to tommy's banner? his supporters seem to the same demographic as ever - middle aged white blokes with a thing for public displays of machismo and the usual range of narrow minded, bigoted opinions. that is not "the working class" - its a self styled cultural identity that has consciously adopted a stereotype of white working class cultural signifiers.
> I would bet very few of them work in traditional working class professions - more likely to be self employed/small business types - an area with little tradition of collectivism and the traditional recruiting ground for fascism. You aren't going to win these people over with a commitment to better wages, better public services and more council houses - they dont give a fuck.
> its all - immigrants are to blame. islamic takeover. fucking political correctness/europe. welfare scroungers.


That's pretty true based on the demo demographic, but there is wider support online


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> and where is the evidence that "the working class" are flocking to tommy's banner? his supporters seem to the same demographic as ever - middle aged white blokes with a thing for public displays of machismo and the usual range of narrow minded, bigoted opinions. that is not "the working class" - its a self styled cultural identity that has consciously adopted a stereotype of white working class cultural signifiers.
> I would bet very few of them work in traditional working class professions - more likely to be self employed/small business types - an area with little tradition of collectivism and the traditional recruiting ground for fascism. You aren't going to win these people over with a commitment to better wages, better public services and more council houses - they dont give a fuck.
> its all - immigrants are to blame. islamic takeover. fucking political correctness/europe. welfare scroungers.



Ok - so you’re speculating about a bunch of people based on how they _look_, in other words from photos you’ve seen. Where as I’m talking about how he’s now mentioned amongst people I _know:_ on social media, in the pub, at work etc.


----------



## chilango (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Ok - so you’re speculating about a bunch of people based on how they _look_, in other words from photos you’ve seen. Where as I’m talking about how he’s now mentioned amongst people I _know:_ on social media, in the pub, at work etc.



what are they saying?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well I mean working class people who aren’t in any lefty bubble or part of the organised right.


Just so I don't misunderstand you, you're saying that Tommy Robinson is _a household name_ among 'working class people who aren't in any lefty bubble or part of the organised right'.  I'd hate to be complacent, so I'd like to see evidence of this.  I mean my first instinct is that this isn't correct, but I'd like to know where the evidence is.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Ok - so you’re speculating about a bunch of people based on how they _look_, in other words from photos you’ve seen. Where as I’m talking about how he’s now mentioned amongst people I _know:_ on social media, in the pub, at work etc.


how many people do you know?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 12, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> I don't know who he is and why he is supposed to be repugnant, but surely its stupid to refuse to read something when it has potentially good information. Which bit of his article did you find repugnant?



It’s not hard to find out. The problem when he says good things is that those things become easily tainted/discredited in the eyes of many just coz he said them. Disagreement over whether they should becomes a distraction.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

I wonder what role the growth of conspiracy culture has played in all this?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

ska invita said:


> but there is wider support online


I'm not on any actual social media any more (other than U75 and some message app group chats with people I know in rl).  But I suspect this is where their strength lies.  Memes being shared and so on.  Although again I've not seen any actual research.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> its not either or though is it? fascism and the ideas it spreads needs to be confronted whenever it rears its head - and that very often means on the street. and austerity needs to be challenged and overturned. i cant see why you cant do both - and both require different approaches.
> The tommy robinson stuff and attendant rise of far right/islamophobic street politics is being studiously ignored by the media (very little coverage of the sat demo - and numbers described as being in the 100s)  - but the toxin is out there. We are seeing hysterical and frightening levels of islamophobia that is permeating throughout popular discourse.
> And the tories did not like UKIP - it was taking a big bite out of their vote share - hence the brexit referendum and the "hostile environment" stuff.
> It also feeds into -  and is fed -  by the brexit process/debacle - the suspicious, paranoid, racist, nationalist daily mail world view is helps create a climate of acceptability for the likes of robinson - a patriotic brit, bravely taking on the pernicious elitist establishment, speaking truth to power and being punished for it etc etc etc. "Somebody needs to take  a stand". "At least hes trying to do something".



Agree with much of that but as usual balance right on coverage is tricky.

Saturday DID get quite a lot in MSM. Certainly far more than many larger demos for stuff like anti austerity.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Just so I don't misunderstand you, you're saying that Tommy Robinson is _a household name_ among 'working class people who aren't in any lefty bubble or part of the organised right'.  I'd hate to be complacent, so I'd like to see evidence of this.  I mean my first instinct is that this isn't correct, but I'd like to know where the evidence is.



I’m basing it on my experiences of those around me, but I’d be quite surprised if by some fluke my experiences were unique.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m basing it on my experiences of those around me, but I’d be quite surprised if by some fluke my experiences were unique.


Sure, and I don't disbelieve your first hand experience.  But how typical is it?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 12, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I wonder what role the growth of conspiracy culture has played in all this?



Quite a lot. One problem is that it’s hard to deny the elite and establishment media are full of shit. That doesn’t mean that anything challenging them is automatically better. The red pills often turn out to be blue.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

chilango said:


> what are they saying?



That he sounds reasonable. He’s the one willing to talk about grooming gangs that the cops and powers that be ignored etc.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m basing it on my experiences of those around me, but I’d be quite surprised if by some fluke my experiences were unique.


there are 774 posts (or thereabouts) going back to 2011 mentioning tommy robinson

even here we're not talking about him so much.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Sure, and I don't disbelieve your first hand experience.  But how typical is it?



No idea. But something has changed between before when he was fringe and now where he appears to becoming normalised.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I wonder what role the growth of conspiracy culture has played in all this?


It would be interesting.  And my instinct would be that it's probably an important ingredient.  But again I'm completely in the dark about who sympathises with TR, why, and how they came to do so.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

...and all of four threads


(plus of course mentions on the edl threads)


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> there are 774 posts (or thereabouts) going back to 2011 mentioning tommy robinson
> 
> even here we're not talking about him so much.



And? There’s a thread hundreds of pages long about the EDL.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And? There’s a thread hundreds of pages long about the EDL.


look one post up.

the simple fact of the matter is we were more concerned with the edl and not necessarily tr on the edl thread. much of that is to do with the internal shenanigans, the splits, the humiliations in walthamstow etc. the edl is not synonymous with tommy robinson, you know.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm not on any actual social media any more (other than U75 and some message app group chats with people I know in rl).  But I suspect this is where their strength lies.  Memes being shared and so on.  Although again I've not seen any actual research.


The Sun and the Mail give him coverage too I think


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> It would be interesting.  And my instinct would be that it's probably an important ingredient.  But again I'm completely in the dark about who sympathises with TR, why, and how they came to do so.


I don't think it has much to do with _producing _it - it feeds on pre-existing alienation and dispossession (the things that a class based response needs to address rather than crappy individual behaviour or appearances), then fanning and intensifying it. It parasites on the results of neo-liberalism in the same way as the far-right - without either ever fully understanding why and how we're here.  I only brought it up because it was twice mentioned in the not very good smith piece and taffboy posted last as i caught up with the thread.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 12, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I don't think it has much to do with _producing _it - it feeds on pre-existing alienation and dispossession (the things that a class based response needs to address rather than crappy individual behaviour or appearances), then fanning and intensifying it. It parasites on the results of neo-liberalism in the same way as the far-right - without either ever fully understanding why and how we're here.  I only brought it up because it was twice mentioned in the not very good smith piece and taffboy posted last as i caught up with the thread.


I stopped reading the Smith piece as soon as I clocked who it was.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 12, 2018)

treelover said:


> Genuine question, who is doing it in Leeds, fighting austerity?, because here it has largely come to a stop.


It is good that you are so careful to flag up your *genuine* questions - that puts all the others in a little more context, even if they do sound exactly like the "genuine" ones.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

the end of yaxley-lennon's 'enemy of the state' book:


didn't do too well on the keep out of prison aim


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2018)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Agree with much of that but as usual balance right on coverage is tricky.
> 
> Saturday DID get quite a lot in MSM. Certainly far more than many larger demos for stuff like anti austerity.



maybe because of the violence, well scuffles, though the cops retreat must have been newsworthy


----------



## chilango (Jun 12, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I stopped reading the Smith piece as soon as I clocked who it was.



I read all of it.

At best it didn't add anything that we don't already know.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 12, 2018)

chilango said:


> In fairness 10k or 15k on the streets for the far-right (for any any cause) is certainly a quantitive leap. And a worrying one. Is it yet a qualitative leap though?


TBH, I'd file it under the same heading as Britain Furst getting all those likes on Facebook - it's a populist message which, on the surface, looks like a valid cause worth fighting for, and for a lot of the kind of people who don't go any further than some kind of instant "bloke put in prison for standing outside a courtroom? That can't be right!" reaction, it will have some appeal. And, once that reaction's been had, pointing out that the twat's a far right mover and shaker and generally antisocial bit of cuntitude then tends to look - to the uninformed - like an attempt to support that terrible act by a bit of ad hominem - "Well, even so, nobody should be shut down for wanting to report the truth - this is a free country".

It won't take very long for the truth to sink in to the vast majority of those people, who will then shuffle off, embarrassedly, and quietly hope that everyone forgets that they showed him any support.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

treelover said:


> maybe because of the violence, well scuffles, though the cops retreat must have been newsworthy


why must the cops' retreat have been newsworthy?

why do you never substantiate your claims?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

existentialist said:


> TBH, I'd file it under the same heading as Britain Furst getting all those likes on Facebook - it's a populist message which, on the surface, looks like a valid cause worth fighting for, and for a lot of the kind of people who don't go any further than some kind of instant "bloke put in prison for standing outside a courtroom? That can't be right!" reaction, it will have some appeal. And, once that reaction's been had, pointing out that the twat's a far right mover and shaker and generally antisocial bit of cuntitude then tends to look - to the uninformed - like an attempt to support that terrible act by a bit of ad hominem - "Well, even so, nobody should be shut down for wanting to report the truth - this is a free country".
> 
> It won't take very long for the truth to sink in to the vast majority of those people, who will then shuffle off, embarrassedly, and quietly hope that everyone forgets that they showed him any support.


anyone who threw something at a cop on that demo will almost certainly avoid any subsequent demonstration because the cops will be lifting people at any future tr demo.


----------



## chilango (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> No idea. But something has changed between before when he was fringe and now where he appears to becoming normalised.



I think looking at what has changed, and what hasn't, will be useful.

..and I think whilst he may be becoming normalised, he's not there yet. I would expect to hear the sentiments you report from some of the people I know. I haven't yet.


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2018)

existentialist said:


> It is good that you are so careful to flag up your *genuine* questions - that puts all the others in a little more context, even if they do sound exactly like the "genuine" ones.



Good grief nothing to do with that, its because one gets so many hostile responses on here(not just me) as this one shows, I just wanted a considered reply, not snark..


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> why must the cops' retreat have been newsworthy?
> 
> why do you never substantiate your claims?




retreating cops, is newsworthy, you don't think it is?

or is just snark again, ffs.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

treelover said:


> Good grief nothing to do with that, its because one gets so many hostile responses on here(not just me) as this one shows, I just wanted a considered reply, not snark..


when you show yourself able to provide a considered reply perhaps you'll attract less snark. but for as long as you insist on offering nothing but snark it is no surprise you get snark served back.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

treelover said:


> retreating cops, is newsworthy, you don't think it is?
> 
> or is just snark again, ffs.


no, why do YOU think cops retreating is newsworthy?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

I've been reading Angry White People: Coming Face-to-Face with the British Far Right by Hsiao-Hung Pai that is an accidentally revealing but not very good book about the birth of the edl. The writer is an idiot but gives loads of space to those involved to have their say - importantly to Darren Carroll, Stephen Lennon's uncle and a key player in the early days who has since left due to the far-right gradually taking over - he was the one you always saw with the black and white banner and anti-fascist stuff.

In his telling the two key events that gave the early formation coherence and shape were the police response to the _first _demo after the choudrey-linked groups led attacks on the anglians homecoming march (which the author believes was a white and muslim led protest, and she is utterly mugged by the man himself in the early pages of the book, then later by CAGE) which was violent and heavy handed, and which then led (in DC's telling)  to the anti-asian violence on the _second_ march - the one that people remember.

The second one was the response of the 'anti-fascists' on the first march in birmingham (the one you'll remember that saw the birth of running man) that drew in football types beyond luton in significant numbers for the first time to prepare for attacks on the second brum demo.

There is a decent review in datacide #16.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Ok - so you’re speculating about a bunch of people based on how they _look_, in other words from photos you’ve seen. Where as I’m talking about how he’s now mentioned amongst people I _know:_ on social media, in the pub, at work etc.



im basing it on the people i know and meet who are - or are likely to be - tommy botherers. and how they look is part of it as well - the clothes, the st georges flags, the puffed up machismo - its a self-conscious image. See ive lived and worked in some of the poorest areas of leeds and bradford for nearly 20 years - and its not there where these fuck nuts tend to come from. Its from "im all right jack" suburbia.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 12, 2018)

treelover said:


> Good grief nothing to do with that, its because one gets so many hostile responses on here(not just me) as this one shows, I just wanted a considered reply, not snark..


And how successful do you think that's been?

I don't think you get snark for the genuineness or otherwise of your questions: most of the snark (definitely including mine) arises from the way in which you seem to position yourself as somehow morally superior, and ask a lot of (undoubtedly "genuine") rhetorical questions about how little everyone else is doing to solve the problems you perceive as existing, alongside rather a lot of unevidenced speculation about it.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> im basing it on the people i know and meet who are - or are likely to be - tommy botherers. and how they look is part of it as well - the clothes, the st georges flags, the puffed up machismo - its a self-conscious image. See ive lived and worked in some of the poorest areas of leeds and bradford for nearly 20 years - and its not there where these fuck nuts tend to come from. Its from "im all right jack" suburbia.



It’s from both.


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## bimble (Jun 12, 2018)

Probably not the best use of your time but this (quite old) article on the evolution of 'tommy' in his own words is interesting if like me you don't know much about him.
Tommy Robinson Explains The Making Of An Alter-Ego Even His Wife Can't Stand


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

existentialist said:


> TBH, I'd file it under the same heading as Britain Furst getting all those likes on Facebook - it's a populist message which, on the surface, looks like a valid cause worth fighting for, and for a lot of the kind of people who don't go any further than some kind of instant "bloke put in prison for standing outside a courtroom? That can't be right!" reaction, it will have some appeal. And, once that reaction's been had, pointing out that the twat's a far right mover and shaker and generally antisocial bit of cuntitude then tends to look - to the uninformed - like an attempt to support that terrible act by a bit of ad hominem - "Well, even so, nobody should be shut down for wanting to report the truth - this is a free country".
> 
> It won't take very long for the truth to sink in to the vast majority of those people, who will then shuffle off, embarrassedly, and quietly hope that everyone forgets that they showed him any support.



agree with this - all the support on social media is likely to be far less engaged then the people actively promoting it on going on the demos. The new element is the influx of ideas, support and money from outside the uk - principally the US. A lot of the "free tommy" tweets and shares are in the US. The far right in the uk is now fully on board with the "puppets of soros" stuff and other US "alt right" memes. Ditto the "free speech" discourse. 
The most dangerous element is  how the "fight the Islamic takeover" stuff has become an international rallying point.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’s from both.



show your workings. the BNP vote - and this is the same people - tended to be concentrated in very white british areas on the edges of larger cities - not the most deprived areas, not amongst the lowest paid. middling suburbia - not leafy but not back to backs and tower blocs either.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> show your workings. the BNP vote - and this is the same people - tended to be concentrated in very white british areas on the edges of larger cities - not the most deprived areas, not amongst the lowest paid. middling suburbia - not leafy but not back to backs and tower blocs either.


yeh. why do you think they're concentrated in very white british areas on the edges of larger cities?


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## Fozzie Bear (Jun 12, 2018)

In terms of TR's wider visibility:

The main thing that sticks with me about the dust up outside the Green Lanes McDonald's Drive Thru on the same day as the Anti-Fascist conference hasn't been TR's confrontation with the masked up people, but what happened afterwards.

When his assailants have left and he's picked himself up, TR is approached by another man who appears to be a stranger. He says something like "Alright, Tommy?" and has a bit of a laugh at his predicament and then they shake hands.

Now that could be a coincidence, but it does suggest a certain level of both visibility and popularity among ordinary people to me. Even if it's just good for anecdotal ammunition in the pub later rather than full-on support.


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## mwgdrwg (Jun 12, 2018)

Cheesypoof said:


> I usually refrain from political posts around here but been following Tommy Robinson for a few years with his vlogging....he seems like a good, and extremely brave man. If you have watched his videos and followed him for many years you can understand him. Free Tommy (thats not even his real name....)



Jesusfuckingchrist.


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## mwgdrwg (Jun 12, 2018)

It's like being back on Facebook and finding out half your childhood friends turn out to be Britain First loving racists. Makes me angry.


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## chilango (Jun 12, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> In terms of TR's wider visibility:
> 
> The main thing that sticks with me about the dust up outside the Green Lanes McDonald's Drive Thru on the same day as the Anti-Fascist conference hasn't been TR's confrontation with the masked up people, but what happened afterwards.
> 
> ...



I think there's degrees of visibility. 

It would be foolish to claim that TR is some obscure fringe figure known only to the trainspotters amongst us. TR has some level of "celebrity".  And this is in itself a departure for the far-right (and far-left) who rarely get known beyond the hobbyists. 

But this isn't the same as being a house-hold name or bringing a personal appeal to swell the ranks of the far-right. 

I don't think he's at that point of recognition. Yet. 

Although - I suspect - some of the organisers behind the current "Free Tommy" stuff are certainly aiming to do this.


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## ska invita (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> show your workings. the BNP vote - and this is the same people - tended to be concentrated in very white british areas on the edges of larger cities - not the most deprived areas, not amongst the lowest paid. middling suburbia - not leafy but not back to backs and tower blocs either.


I agree with the gist of what your saying, and "working class" is so often a pretty useless term to discuss the range of groups in society and their interests, incomes, allegiances and power...but I would say that Clacton, for example, the one seat UKIP won, is far from "alright jack" country:
Socio-economic statistics for Clacton-on-Sea, Essex
and its not unique in that


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

interesting article from political studies


this seems to be open access, so you may be able to get it here SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

if not, here it is

1/2


Spoiler


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

2/2



Spoiler


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> show your workings. the BNP vote - and this is the same people - tended to be concentrated in very white british areas on the edges of larger cities - not the most deprived areas, not amongst the lowest paid. middling suburbia - not leafy but not back to backs and tower blocs either.



My ‘workings’ are from monitoring those involved and even having grown up with some of them. 
Does all your workings come from the internet?


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

And why has it changed to the BNP all of a sudden? Is your info a decade old?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And why has it changed to the BNP all of a sudden? Is your info a decade old?


to be fair the bnp was still doing quite well less than a decade ago


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> to be fair the bnp was still doing quite well less than a decade ago



Fair enough. But who kaka was referring to was “Tommy botherers” (#958) which I took to mean the EDL. He then started talking about the BNP. Although there’s overlap between the two.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

ska invita said:


> I agree with the gist of what your saying, and "working class" is so often a pretty useless term to discuss the range of groups in society and their interests, incomes, allegiances and power...but I would say that Clacton, for example, the one seat UKIP won, is far from "alright jack" country:
> Socio-economic statistics for Clacton-on-Sea, Essex
> and its not unique in that



ha ha - i know clacton very well as its where i grew up - i left aged 24 but have been back regularly since to see me folks. yes it has got a big ukip vote, but there has never been much support for the far right. There's a lot of retired people there - not much in the way of decent, secure employment. a lot of smack. quite a bit of racism. but its quite different to - say - morley in leeds, where the far right vote has been high for decades.

its the sort of place anyone who wants to do anything with their lives moves out of. Out of the me and my five brothers the only one who didn't get the fuck out is the racist, bigoted, UKIP voting one.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. why do you think they're concentrated in very white british areas on the edges of larger cities?



i guess its where a lot of people have moved out to and they cant cope with seeing many people with darker skin pigmentation when they do their shopping in the city centre.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Fair enough. But who kaka was referring to was “Tommy botherers” (#958) which I took to mean the EDL. He then started talking about the BNP. Although there’s overlap between the two.



because the vote for the far right is a reliable measure of where support for the far right is concentrated. And i dont think its a wild stab in the dark to suggest that the people marching up and down waving st george's flags bellowing "free tommy" and "who the fuck is allah?" might just be the same people who were BNP friendly 10 years ago.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> i guess its where a lot of people have moved out to and they cant cope with seeing many people with darker skin pigmentation when they do their shopping in the city centre.


yeh. you see, as you do not know the backstory of how these white people in e.g. barking and dagenham ended up in barking and dagenham you do not understand why slome of them might feel some of the things they do.

and it reflects more on you than them that you say something so utterly fuckwitted and disgraceful like 'they cant cope with seeing many people with darker skin pigmentation when they do their shopping in the city centre'. can you see why?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> because the vote for the far right is a reliable measure of where support for the far right is concentrated. And i dont think its a wild stab in the dark to suggest that the people marching up and down waving st george's flags bellowing "free tommy" and "who the fuck is allah?" might just be the same people who were BNP friendly 10 years ago.


you're wrong again. this really isn't your finest hour, you know. the vote for the far right IS  NOT necessarily a reliable measure of where support for the far right is concentrated, not until they're standing everywhere.

let me give you an example. in 1993 derek beackon was elected a bnp councillor for the isle of dogs. according to your logic that means support for the far right was concentrated on the isle of dogs. but you don't know how other places felt because no one stood there at the time. if you don't have a far-right candidate for whom people can vote, you don't know whether or not far-right sentiment is concentrated there.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> because the vote for the far right is a reliable measure of where support for the far right is concentrated. And i dont think its a wild stab in the dark to suggest that the people marching up and down waving st george's flags bellowing "free tommy" and "who the fuck is allah?" might just be the same people who were BNP friendly 10 years ago.



Yeah. Including those that don’t vote.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. you see, as you do not know the backstory of how these white people in e.g. barking and dagenham ended up in barking and dagenham you do not understand why slome of them might feel some of the things they do.
> 
> and it reflects more on you than them that you say something so utterly fuckwitted and disgraceful like 'they cant cope with seeing many people with darker skin pigmentation when they do their shopping in the city centre'. can you see why?



why fuckwitted and disgraceful? support for the far right, and xenophobia generally is concentrated in areas with the lowest levels of diversity - but often geographically close to more diverse urban areas. so they are more insular - and many of  them see ethnic/cultural diversity as a threat, as representing change for the worse, as the factor that has taken "their" culture/city away from them. That doesn't mean that most people who live in morley (or barking) think that way - but more than in other places.


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## ska invita (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. you see, as you do not know the backstory of how these white people in e.g. barking and dagenham ended up in barking and dagenham you do not understand why slome of them might feel some of the things they do.
> 
> and it reflects more on you than them that you say something so utterly fuckwitted and disgraceful like 'they cant cope with seeing many people with darker skin pigmentation when they do their shopping in the city centre'. can you see why?


funnily enough just last week heard someone in Kentish pub scoffing "I went to Stratford this weekend, its was like a Benetton ad" before going into a bunch of racist crap about Chinese people. Its far from uncommon that.

Years since i read it but this book covers a lot of the geography of white racism
Routes of racism: the social basis of racist action by Hewitt, Roger


Pickman's model said:


> you're wrong again. this really isn't your finest hour, you know. the vote for the far right IS  NOT necessarily a reliable measure of where support for the far right is concentrated, not until they're standing everywhere.
> 
> let me give you an example. in 1993 derek beackon was elected a bnp councillor for the isle of dogs. according to your logic that means support for the far right was concentrated on the isle of dogs. but you don't know how other places felt because no one stood there at the time. if you don't have a far-right candidate for whom people can vote, you don't know whether or not far-right sentiment is concentrated there.


partys field candidates where they think they can win/score


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

I also think you’ve got a strange understanding of class if you think workers don’t live in ‘suburbia’.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> you're wrong again. this really isn't your finest hour, you know. the vote for the far right IS  NOT necessarily a reliable measure of where support for the far right is concentrated, not until they're standing everywhere.
> 
> let me give you an example. in 1993 derek beackon was elected a bnp councillor for the isle of dogs. according to your logic that means support for the far right was concentrated on the isle of dogs. but you don't know how other places felt because no one stood there at the time. if you don't have a far-right candidate for whom people can vote, you don't know whether or not far-right sentiment is concentrated there.



isle of dogs was down to a particular set of circumstances though (school places? after a lot of bangladeshi families were relocated there?) . An yes - if the far right dont stand - then you cant gauge their support -but those are the numbers we have - and you'd assume that they only stand in places where they think they might do well.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> why fuckwitted and disgraceful? support for the far right, and xenophobia generally is concentrated in areas with the lowest levels of diversity - but often geographically close to more diverse urban areas. so they are more insular - and many of  them see ethnic/cultural diversity as a threat, as representing change for the worse, as the factor that has taken "their" culture/city away from them. That doesn't mean that most people who live in morley (or barking) think that way - but more than in other places.


fuckwitted and disgraceful because you're making sweeping statements about whole communities based on your own prejudices and assumptions.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> isle of dogs was down to a particular set of circumstances though (school places? after a lot of bangladeshi families were relocated there?) . An yes - if the far right dont stand - then you cant gauge their support -but those are the numbers we have - and you'd assume that they only stand in places where they think they might do well.


no, i wouldn't make that assumption. for example, for many years the nf have stood candidates in west london where they've no hope of being elected. but it's where they have/had a senior member, so every time until at least 2014 he stood.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I also think you’ve got a strange understanding of class if you think workers don’t live in ‘suburbia’.



it may be culturally working class - but these are areas with higher levels of home ownership and income than the big council estates in the cites. "Working class" when talking about support for the far right - or things like UKIP seem to be constantly reduced to a narrow demographic (i guess marketeers would class them as a subsection of  c1s and c2s) who are in  no way representative of " the working class" as a whole  - white or otherwise.


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> it may be culturally working class - but these are areas with higher levels of home ownership and income than the big council estates in the cites. "Working class" when talking about support for the far right - or things like UKIP seem to be constantly reduced to a narrow demographic (i guess marketeers would class them as c1s and c2s) who are in  no way representative of " the working class" as a whole  - white or otherwise.



Social housing has been decimated meaning people have to buy or rent privately - and where do you imagine those houses are?


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> fuckwitted and disgraceful because you're making sweeping statements about whole communities based on your own prejudices and assumptions.



i wasn't talking about whole communities. i was talking about the xenophobes and racists who live there. And - slight tangent but relevant - what communities? what does that mean? part of the problem is the increasing atomisation of society and the commuter belt/"blue collar suburbia" type places are the places with less idea, sense of community -  hence the fear and suspicion and social media fulled "communities of interest" forming around far right and conspiracy stuff.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> i wasn't talking about whole communities. i was talking about the xenophobes and racists who live there. And - slight tangent but relevant - what communities? what does that mean? part of the problem is the increasing atomisation of society and the commuter belt/"blue collar suburbia" type places are the places with less idea, sense of community -  hence the fear and suspicion and social media fulled "communities of interest" forming around far right and conspiracy stuff.


yeh. well, we'll have to agree to disagree about what you said. returning to the slum clearances, whole communities were moved out to the outskirts of london, to e.g. the becontree estate, to harold hill, for large numbers of people it very much wasn't an 'ooh we could move to the country' sort of voluntary thing


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## krink (Jun 12, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I've been reading Angry White People: Coming Face-to-Face with the British Far Right by Hsiao-Hung Pai that is an accidentally revealing but not very good book about the birth of the edl. The writer is an idiot but gives loads of space to those involved to have their say - importantly to Darren Carroll, Stephen Lennon's uncle and a key player in the early days who has since left due to the far-right gradually taking over - he was the one you always saw with the black and white banner and anti-fascist stuff.
> 
> In his telling the two key events that gave the early formation coherence and shape were the police response to the _first _demo after the choudrey-linked groups led attacks on the anglians homecoming march (which the author believes was a white and muslim led protest, and she is utterly mugged by the man himself in the early pages of the book, then later by CAGE) which was violent and heavy handed, and which then led (in DC's telling)  to the anti-asian violence on the _second_ march - the one that people remember.
> 
> ...


I didn't even know about the first march. I thought the second was actually the first. A bit cheeky but any chance of a scan of the interesting bits with Darren Carrol (who I recognise but didn't know who he was) ? No problem if too busy, I'll find it in a book shop and have a quick read.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. well, we'll have to agree to disagree about what you said. returning to the slum clearances, whole communities were moved out to the outskirts of london, to e.g. the becontree estate, to harold hill, for large numbers of people it very much wasn't an 'ooh we could move to the country' sort of voluntary thing



I know all that - but the slum clearances were back in 50 and 60s - the people affected would be mostly over 70s by now - and places like west yorkshire and lancashire were not affected in the same way.
See im not sure i buy into the idea that support for the far right is a result of dislocation and alienation of the working class through things like de-industrialisation, "globalisation" and wot not (although that def played a part in the brexit vote). 
the people who involved with politicised racism are certainly alienated from a sense of society - but i think that's rooted more in social atomisation combined with  fear of cultural changes - they are looking for a shared identity and sense of community through nationalism and  scapegoating. Im not convinced that  these are the sort of people who have ever been trade unionists or ever belonged to any mythical working class community - more likeyly to be im all right jack, tory voting individualists. you can maybe throw in some "crises of masculinity" arguments as well - standing up to the outsider invaders who are looking to violate our womenfolk etc etc.
cant we just call them " a bunch of racist cunts" and stop making excuses for them?


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## Ax^ (Jun 12, 2018)

Could ban football

Seems to linked to most of these groups


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> I know all that - but the slum clearances were back in 50 and 60s - the people affected would be mostly over 70s by now - and places like west yorkshire and lancashire were not affected in the same way.


your bias is showing. as is your ignorance. slum clearances continued into the 1980s.


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## The39thStep (Jun 12, 2018)

The book I found the most useful reading on the EDL was  *The rise of the Right: English nationalism and the transformation of working-class politics* https://www.amazon.co.uk/rise-Right...=1528817591&sr=1-1&keywords=rise+of+the+right.
I think it sets out ( although it does go on a bit in places) a very accurate and useful context for the growth of not only an anti muslim far right but anti liberal left pole of attraction amongst the w/class.


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## planetgeli (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Second picture down on the left yer man with the knights templar shirt on



Right, what is this shit. Being referenced on a message board is one thing, hearing about them at work today is pretty much a step up.

Quote from colleague to another colleague who is ex-army. "Have you heard of this Knights Templar thing? My brother-in-law lives in the Midlands and he says he's been approached to join. Something about 20,000 ex-squaddies protecting the country, he reckons this Muslim thing is going to blow up and the Knights Templar want to be ready. I don't agree with this racism thing and I don't agree with a lot of what that Tommy Robinson says but I do agree with some of it."

That's pretty much a verbatim quote. Hearing about it in my poxy little backwoods seemed very strange and has made me wonder just how deep this KT stuff goes. Have I just been victim of an unfortunate pocket of racism (because that's what it is, "I'm not racist but...") or is this KT stuff really spreading?

Pickman's model? Anyone?


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## The39thStep (Jun 12, 2018)

> I don't agree with a lot of what that Tommy Robinson says but I do agree with some of it."


 I have heard this many times over the years unfortunatley from mates or people who I have a bit of time for and otherwise are generally sound.  They are otherwise ok and I can sit down and have a proper discussion and a pint with them The other one I hear  is 'H 's got a point though hasn't he?'


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## Shechemite (Jun 12, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Right, what is this shit. Being referenced on a message board is one thing, hearing about them at work today is pretty much a step up.
> 
> Quote from colleague to another colleague who is ex-army. "Have you heard of this Knights Templar thing? My brother-in-law lives in the Midlands and he says he's been approached to join. Something about 20,000 ex-squaddies protecting the country, he reckons this Muslim thing is going to blow up and the Knights Templar want to be ready. I don't agree with this racism thing and I don't agree with a lot of what that Tommy Robinson says but I do agree with some of it."
> 
> ...



Growth of conspiracy culture, and of daft identariran type racism (the actual knights Templar being a totem for both these).

It’s unlikely there is a militia of 20,000 ex squaddies though, despite the claims of whatever mental website/YouTube channel your mate has been spending their time o


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## planetgeli (Jun 12, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> It’s unlikely there is a militia of 20,000 ex squaddies though, despite the claims of whatever mental website/YouTube channel your mate has been spending their time o



He's not my mate. The words you've quoted, as I said, are from the brother-in-law of a work colleague. The work colleague, who isn't a mate, is, however, someone I can talk to and reason with. Pretty sure he doesn't watch any mental YouTube channels, or much internet at all. Am concerned because of this. Because he is 'Mr Normal', and this is another illustration of how this dickheadery is infecting some w/c thinking.


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## MickiQ (Jun 12, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Quote from colleague to another colleague who is ex-army. "Have you heard of this Knights Templar thing? My brother-in-law lives in the Midlands and he says he's been approached to join. Something about 20,000 ex-squaddies protecting the country, he reckons this Muslim thing is going to blow up and the Knights Templar want to be ready. I don't agree with this racism thing and I don't agree with a lot of what that Tommy Robinson says but I do agree with some of it."


Really means  
_Someone I know, knows someone else who says a dozen of the lads meet up in the pub, get oiled and agree somebody needs to do something about it, not sure what it is but it definitely needs something doing about it by someone._
20,000 is about a quarter of the strength of the serving Army, It effectively is an army, organising a force that size (never mind equipping it) takes a huge amount of time and effort which is why we have an MOD 
It certainly can't be done by people having a word with a mate.


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## Shechemite (Jun 12, 2018)

What are you asking planetgeli 

There are a number of groups (or blokes with blogs) describing themselves as ‘knights templar’ (it plays off the idea of a Christian militia defending against the infidel). 

Could you ask the person you know how he came across the ideas he was spouting?


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Right, what is this shit. Being referenced on a message board is one thing, hearing about them at work today is pretty much a step up.
> 
> Quote from colleague to another colleague who is ex-army. "Have you heard of this Knights Templar thing? My brother-in-law lives in the Midlands and he says he's been approached to join. Something about 20,000 ex-squaddies protecting the country, he reckons this Muslim thing is going to blow up and the Knights Templar want to be ready. I don't agree with this racism thing and I don't agree with a lot of what that Tommy Robinson says but I do agree with some of it."
> 
> ...


a lot of occult types look back to the knights templar, who were a military order in the middle ages until they were suppressed by the king of france around 1310 as they were extremely wealthy and overmighty subjects. the reason they are significant in this context is because of references made to them by breivik (see e.g. here Anders Behring Breivik: The Knights Templar Connection) and because of jim dowson, former funder of the bnp and britain first who now has an organisation called the knights templar international (bbc radio 4 programme here BBC Radio 4 - The Invisible Man of Britain's Far Right)


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> What are you asking planetgeli
> 
> There are a number of groups (or blokes with blogs) describing themselves as ‘knights templar’ (it plays off the idea of a Christian militia defending against the infidel).
> 
> Could you ask the person you know how he came across the ideas he was spouting?


it's much more than a christian militia against the muslims, it's got connotations of internationalism as the kt were spread throughtout christendom, of the occult, of a secret society... there's a load in this An Encyclopaedia of Occultism


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## planetgeli (Jun 12, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> What are you asking planetgeli
> 
> There are a number of groups (or blokes with blogs) describing themselves as ‘knights templar’ (it plays off the idea of a Christian militia defending against the infidel).
> 
> Could you ask the person you know how he came across the ideas he was spouting?



I am asking how widespread people think this idea of KT is because Pickman's model pointed out a shirt in a photo from that march and days later, in a tiny part of Wales, I find them being discussed at work.

I thought I'd described (twice now) how the discussion came about at work. My colleague was largely relaying a phone conversation he had had with his brother-in-law, ex-army, who has allegedly been approached to join KT.


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## Shechemite (Jun 12, 2018)

So why don’t you ask your colleague for more info?


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

I thought Knights Templar were something the truthers held responsible for stuff? Maybe they’ve reclaimed the name. Which is pretty funny.


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## Shechemite (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> it's much more than a christian militia against the muslims, it's got connotations of internationalism as the kt were spread throughtout christendom, of the occult, of a secret society... there's a load in this An Encyclopaedia of Occultism



Indeed, but the resonance for the ‘free tommy’/fla types is likely more mundane.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> I am asking how widespread people think this idea of KT is because Pickman's model pointed out a shirt in a photo from that march and days later, in a tiny part of Wales, I find them being discussed at work.
> 
> I thought I'd described (twice now) how the discussion came about at work. My colleague was largely relaying a phone conversation he had had with his brother-in-law, ex-army, who has allegedly been approached to join KT.


i wouldn't want anything to do with any knights templar thing. the original knights templar were very different from the mob about now (you can read about them in e.g. desmond seward's the monks of war), who are conspiraloon fascists in the main.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 12, 2018)

KT was also the name of the secret organisation Anders Breivik claimed to belong to.


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 12, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> So why don’t you ask your colleague for more info?



Because I'm pretty sure he gave as much info this morning as he has and now I'm on a message board where I trust more people will have more and better knowledge. As Pickman's model has.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Indeed, but the resonance for the ‘free tommy’/fla types is likely more mundane.


if trying to resurrect a catholic military order answerable only to the pope for purposes of domestic terrorism is mundane, then yes.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

It was something Breivik claimed to belong to. Knew it rung a bell. 

Anders Breivik questioned about 'Knights Templar' group


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

Raheem said:


> KT was also the name of the secret organisation Anders Breivik claimed to belong to.



Beaten to it.


----------



## planetgeli (Jun 12, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Beaten to it.



A lot earlier. By Pickman's model


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 12, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> A lot earlier. By Pickman's model



As usual then.


----------



## bimble (Jun 12, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> if trying to resurrect a catholic military order answerable only to the pope for purposes of domestic terrorism is mundane, then yes.


That _might_ the plan or you know maybe they just want to reminisce about how great the crusades were and wear t shirts with symbols on that make them feel important.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

It's a generic trope about reclaiming the christian west. Paul Ray was kicked out of the edl founders group for arguing this shit -  because it's mental

It means nothing.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

Every two bob football/scooter/speedway etc club does this.


----------



## Shechemite (Jun 12, 2018)

There’s always been that ‘even more mental than the rest’ element within fascism (Eg Thule Society, Christian Soldier group etc). 

Have they ever been that influential within large organisations?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

no


----------



## treelover (Jun 12, 2018)

There was a drama on BBC once which was about an 'order' of knights in England which turned to terrorism. I think it was an episode of Spooks, not sure though.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 12, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Right, what is this shit. Being referenced on a message board is one thing, hearing about them at work today is pretty much a step up.
> 
> Quote from colleague to another colleague who is ex-army. "Have you heard of this Knights Templar thing? My brother-in-law lives in the Midlands and he says he's been approached to join. Something about 20,000 ex-squaddies protecting the country, he reckons this Muslim thing is going to blow up and the Knights Templar want to be ready. I don't agree with this racism thing and I don't agree with a lot of what that Tommy Robinson says but I do agree with some of it."
> 
> ...


"The lunatic is all idée fixe, and whatever he comes across confirms his lunacy. You can tell him by the liberties he takes with common sense, by his flashes of inspiration, and by the fact that sooner or later he brings up the Templars."

Umberto Eco, Foucault's Pendulum


----------



## JimW (Jun 12, 2018)

Is that League of St George lot still going?
ETA Internet says going but nowhere.


----------



## billbond (Jun 12, 2018)

editor said:


> I see an endless stream of ugly, bald overweight white men.



Its like a Cardiff v Millwall meet up from the past


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

billbond said:


> Its like a Cardiff v Millwall meet up from the past


No its not .


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

Why on earth don't enough working class people join middle class gyms for the anti fascism and that ?


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 12, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Why on earth don't enough working class people join middle class gyms for the anti fascism and that ?



When was the last time you went to the gym?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> When was the last time you went to the gym?


I don't. It's for specialists.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 12, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I don't. It's for specialists.



Too busy with the working class reading groups and that?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Too busy with the working class reading groups?


If it helps you to think that. Yep. And I want more of them too.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 12, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> If it helps you to think that. Yep. And I want more of them too.



Dont expect you get many specialists at them.  Just straight up geezers from building sites.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 12, 2018)

Red sky squadron, coastal command, your tail is showing.

At them?


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 12, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Red sky squadron, coastal command, your tail is showing.
> 
> At them?



It's nearly 9 o clock I suppose.


----------



## sealion (Jun 12, 2018)

billbond said:


> Its like a Cardiff v Millwall meet up from the past


Considering we (Millwall) had a mob that was lead by and had many black blokes in it, i make you wrong. Not to mention the turkish, asian, scots and Irish blokes that run with us too! We opposed the nf many times when thay were about.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 12, 2018)

I was in the pub after I went to the demo, editing the photos I took, and when I went to the bar a guy who I’d heard behind me talking about politics in a conversation that had a bit of a “not a nationalist but” feel said “I see you had some photos there of the march today, did you go along then?”

“Yeah I do a lot of photography of protests, I was just editing the shots I took there.”

“Ah Tommy Robinson who is he really?” Bit of an odd comment. I think about how to respond to that.

“I’m not his biggest fan” I finally come up with. Subject changes to an unusual beer in the fridge until I get served.

I often come to this pub and edit photos that I’ve taken on demos as it’s on my way home and that’s the first time anyone has ever commented.


----------



## billbond (Jun 12, 2018)

sealion said:


> Considering we (Millwall) had a mob that was lead by and had many black blokes in it, i make you wrong. Not to mention the turkish, asian, scots and Irish and blokes that run with us too! We opposed the nf many times when thay were about.



Agree 100%
It was more the overweight and balding bit ! ha
Never got all the detail in 
Tiny and Charlie infact helped me out years ago
(Names from the past)


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 12, 2018)

JimW said:


> Is that League of St George lot still going?
> ETA Internet says going but nowhere.


I think most of them are either dead or are too Nazi-fied and looking to the past to have anything but the most marginal of influence .Neither the far right or anti fascism can get anywhere through just reinventing the pre and post war period.  Funnily though enough IMO if ever there was a time for a revival of a Mosley influenced group that campaigned on both economic equality and anti Islam / immigration control it could be now. I think we are fortunate in that the modern day far right don't by and large  don't have much or anything to say about post industrial society and the working person / family.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 14, 2018)

This is the prevaling wind across Europe .


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 14, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This is the prevaling wind across Europe .


Are those responses to suggested options or spontaneous answers?


----------



## chilango (Jun 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Are those responses to suggested options or spontaneous answers?



When I've done yougov or ipsos it's been pick from a list.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 14, 2018)

chilango said:


> When I've done yougov or ipsos it's been pick from a list.


Indeed. I do YouGov too.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 14, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Are those responses to suggested options or spontaneous answers?


i think it options as across the top band


----------



## emanymton (Jun 14, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This is the prevaling wind across Europe .


Those categories don't make a lot of snse.
Climate change and the environment separate. Lots of diffrent economic categories.
Looking at the uk, just adding economic situation and rising prices together you get the second highest category.


----------



## bimble (Jun 14, 2018)

I'm trying to take comfort in the fact that the question was about problems facing the eu, not you your life or even your country?


----------



## andysays (Jun 14, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This is the prevaling wind across Europe .



No mention there of Muslim peado gangs being allowing to thrive unchallenged because of politically correct police anxious not to appear racist, nor of the free speech of brave patriots being silenced


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 15, 2018)

The far-right threat is getting more dangerous. We need to act.


----------



## billbond (Jun 15, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> The far-right threat is getting more dangerous. We need to act.


 
Yet says nothing about what they will do
Lets be honest some of these AF are thugs as well


----------



## LDC (Jun 15, 2018)

billbond said:


> Lets be honest some of these AF are thugs as well



Is it your lack of intellect or imagination that means you can only come up with something that shit as a comment on the article?


----------



## billbond (Jun 15, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Is it your lack of intellect or imagination that means you can only come up with something that shit as a comment on the article?



ok it was Rubbish
All propaganda with no substance imho


----------



## existentialist (Jun 15, 2018)

billbond said:


> Yet says nothing about what they will do
> Lets be honest some of these AF are thugs as well


Also, your mum smells funny.


----------



## Beavis22 (Jun 16, 2018)

billbond said:


> ok it was Rubbish
> All propaganda with no substance imho



Yes, reading that article I really don’t think that they understand the new far right at all. But more telling is the fact that the far left don’t seem to have any self awareness and appear not to have even looked in the mirror. At the moment the far left seem more like a cult that enforces conformity of thinking rather than a genuine political movement. Thanks to the internet and the rise of social media and YouTube, the no platforming, the  suppression of certain view points and the silencing of people that worked in the past isn’t going to work so well anymore. It’s simply not possible to prevent people expressing their views online because their views are not actually illegal and being seen trying to suppress them will only spark more people’s interest. This new far right is very different to the old BNP. The BNP were openly racist and homophobic. The new far right are largely neither although they do seem very intolerant to Islam, nationalistic, populist and possibly xenophobic. Take the new For Britain Party for example. That party probably has more members from ethic minorities per capita than the general population as many of the members are ex-Muslims who seem to have legitimate complaints about the way they have been treated since leaving the religion, what is the left’s message to these people? Are they just going to brand them racist and tell them to shut up too? I don’t see that working. Calling someone racist is not really an argument and the word is rapidly losing any potency after the far left threw it around like confetti at a wedding. The grooming gang scandals are very real, it certainly appears that the victims were targeted because of their race (or at least targeted because they came from a different community than their abusers) and also targeted because of their vulnerability. And it’s also pretty clear that the authorities in some places turned a blind eye to it in some cases because they didn’t want to be accused of racism, and because the victims were working class. The signs are that the Labour Party are still seeking to silence those who speak out about it (I’m think of the circumstances in Sarah Champion leaving the front bench). I see a left wing that is no longer capable of facing up to these issues with nothing to offer to the political debate. A left that seems only capable of throwing insults that are rapidly losing their potency and using suppression and silencing that is rapidly losing its effectiveness. I doubt they even could debate the new right to be honest, spending too long in a self reinforcing echo chamber will do that.

So yeah, that article is a joke and the far left and the Labour Party are a joke.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Yes, reading that article I really don’t think that they understand the new far right at all. But more telling is the fact that the far left don’t seem to have any self awareness and appear not to have even looked in the mirror. At the moment the far left seem more like a cult that enforces conformity of thinking rather than a genuine political movement. Thanks to the internet and the rise of social media and YouTube, the no platforming, the  suppression of certain view points and the silencing of people that worked in the past isn’t going to work so well anymore. It’s simply not possible to prevent people expressing their views online because their views are not actually illegal and being seen trying to suppress them will only spark more people’s interest. This new far right is very different to the old BNP. The BNP were openly racist and homophobic. The new far right are largely neither although they do seem very intolerant to Islam, nationalistic, populist and possibly xenophobic. Take the new For Britain Party for example. That party probably has more members from ethic minorities per capita than the general population as many of the members are ex-Muslims who seem to have legitimate complaints about the way they have been treated since leaving the religion, what is the left’s message to these people? Are they just going to brand them racist and tell them to shut up too? I don’t see that working. Calling someone racist is not really an argument and the word is rapidly losing any potency after the far left threw it around like confetti at a wedding. The grooming gang scandals are very real, it certainly appears that the victims were targeted because of their race (or at least targeted because they came from a different community than their abusers) and also targeted because of their vulnerability. And it’s also pretty clear that the authorities in some places turned a blind eye to it in some cases because they didn’t want to be accused of racism, and because the victims were working class. The signs are that the Labour Party are still seeking to silence those who speak out about it (I’m think of the circumstances in Sarah Champion leaving the front bench). I see a left wing that is no longer capable of facing up to these issues with nothing to offer to the political debate. A left that seems only capable of throwing insults that are rapidly losing their potency and using suppression and silencing that is rapidly losing its effectiveness. I doubt they even could debate the new right to be honest, spending too long in a self reinforcing echo chamber will do that.
> 
> So yeah, that article is a joke and the far left and the Labour Party are a joke.


At least the "far left" know what a paragraph is, sock puppet.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 16, 2018)

billbond said:


> and the far left and the Labour Party are a joke.



What have they got to do with each other?


----------



## Beavis22 (Jun 16, 2018)

existentialist said:


> At least the "far left" know what a paragraph is, sock puppet.



See this is the problem. I’m the first to admit, my writing isn’t great. Does that invalidate my argument?  It should be clear enough for anybody who wants too to be able to understand what I’m saying. But you don’t address a word of what I said, just hostile insults. The same mindset on the far left is why they’re losing and failing to stop the rise of the new far right.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> See this is the problem. I’m the first to admit, my writing isn’t great. Does that invalidate my argument?  It should be clear enough for anybody who wants too to be able to understand what I’m saying. But you don’t address a word of what I said, just hostile insults. The same mindset on the far left is why they’re losing and failing to stop the rise of the new far right.


If you had an argument, your writing style would be less relevant.

As it is, what you have posted was a screed of polemic, full of elisions and generalities. Which meant its complete lack of structure made it look even more like the random noise it is.

ETA: oh, and by the way, while I appreciate that from where you're standing, pretty much everything must look like "far left", trying to slap that label on me is a fairly pointless (and inaccurate) thing to do...


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> See this is the problem. I’m the first to admit, my writing isn’t great. Does that invalidate my argument?  It should be clear enough for anybody who wants too to be able to understand what I’m saying. But you don’t address a word of what I said, just hostile insults. The same mindset on the far left is why they’re losing and failing to stop the rise of the new far right.


What is this 'new far right'? What are it's central defining characteristics?


----------



## Beavis22 (Jun 16, 2018)

existentialist said:


> If you had an argument, your writing style would be less relevant.
> 
> As it is, what you have posted was a screed of polemic, full of elisions and generalities. Which meant its complete lack of structure made it look even more like the random noise it is.
> 
> ETA: oh, and by the way, while I appreciate that from where you're standing, pretty much everything must look like "far left", trying to slap that label on me is a fairly pointless (and inaccurate) thing to do...



I disagree, I think there is a point there and you are just to ideological to see it and really don’t want to see it because it means questioning what you believe. This is just my opinion. I also think that’s partly why the new right could win and why the liberal left establishment could lose. Right now it’s like the old order is breaking down (and has been for about a decade) and a new consensus is yet to arrive. It’s breaking down much faster in Europe granted, but I see signs it’s started here too.


----------



## fishfinger (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> ...the liberal left establishment...


Where is that?


----------



## Athos (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Yes, reading that article I really don’t think that they understand the new far right at all. But more telling is the fact that the far left don’t seem to have any self awareness and appear not to have even looked in the mirror. At the moment the far left seem more like a cult that enforces conformity of thinking rather than a genuine political movement. Thanks to the internet and the rise of social media and YouTube, the no platforming, the  suppression of certain view points and the silencing of people that worked in the past isn’t going to work so well anymore. It’s simply not possible to prevent people expressing their views online because their views are not actually illegal and being seen trying to suppress them will only spark more people’s interest. This new far right is very different to the old BNP. The BNP were openly racist and homophobic. The new far right are largely neither although they do seem very intolerant to Islam, nationalistic, populist and possibly xenophobic. Take the new For Britain Party for example. That party probably has more members from ethic minorities per capita than the general population as many of the members are ex-Muslims who seem to have legitimate complaints about the way they have been treated since leaving the religion, what is the left’s message to these people? Are they just going to brand them racist and tell them to shut up too? I don’t see that working. Calling someone racist is not really an argument and the word is rapidly losing any potency after the far left threw it around like confetti at a wedding. The grooming gang scandals are very real, it certainly appears that the victims were targeted because of their race (or at least targeted because they came from a different community than their abusers) and also targeted because of their vulnerability. And it’s also pretty clear that the authorities in some places turned a blind eye to it in some cases because they didn’t want to be accused of racism, and because the victims were working class. The signs are that the Labour Party are still seeking to silence those who speak out about it (I’m think of the circumstances in Sarah Champion leaving the front bench). I see a left wing that is no longer capable of facing up to these issues with nothing to offer to the political debate. A left that seems only capable of throwing insults that are rapidly losing their potency and using suppression and silencing that is rapidly losing its effectiveness. I doubt they even could debate the new right to be honest, spending too long in a self reinforcing echo chamber will do that.
> 
> So yeah, that article is a joke and the far left and the Labour Party are a joke.



How are you defining the 'far left'?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 16, 2018)

momentum and the labour party apparently


----------



## Athos (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Yes, reading that article I really don’t think that they understand the new far right at all. But more telling is the fact that the far left don’t seem to have any self awareness and appear not to have even looked in the mirror. At the moment the far left seem more like a cult that enforces conformity of thinking rather than a genuine political movement. Thanks to the internet and the rise of social media and YouTube, the no platforming, the  suppression of certain view points and the silencing of people that worked in the past isn’t going to work so well anymore. It’s simply not possible to prevent people expressing their views online because their views are not actually illegal and being seen trying to suppress them will only spark more people’s interest. This new far right is very different to the old BNP. The BNP were openly racist and homophobic. The new far right are largely neither although they do seem very intolerant to Islam, nationalistic, populist and possibly xenophobic. Take the new For Britain Party for example. That party probably has more members from ethic minorities per capita than the general population as many of the members are ex-Muslims who seem to have legitimate complaints about the way they have been treated since leaving the religion, what is the left’s message to these people? Are they just going to brand them racist and tell them to shut up too? I don’t see that working. Calling someone racist is not really an argument and the word is rapidly losing any potency after the far left threw it around like confetti at a wedding. The grooming gang scandals are very real, it certainly appears that the victims were targeted because of their race (or at least targeted because they came from a different community than their abusers) and also targeted because of their vulnerability. And it’s also pretty clear that the authorities in some places turned a blind eye to it in some cases because they didn’t want to be accused of racism, and because the victims were working class. The signs are that the Labour Party are still seeking to silence those who speak out about it (I’m think of the circumstances in Sarah Champion leaving the front bench). I see a left wing that is no longer capable of facing up to these issues with nothing to offer to the political debate. A left that seems only capable of throwing insults that are rapidly losing their potency and using suppression and silencing that is rapidly losing its effectiveness. I doubt they even could debate the new right to be honest, spending too long in a self reinforcing echo chamber will do that.
> 
> So yeah, that article is a joke and the far left and the Labour Party are a joke.



This contains an awful lot of assertions (in reality, I suspect assumptions if not fabrications). Please would you provide some evidence for them?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> . Take the new For Britain Party for example. That party probably has more members from ethic minorities per capita than the general population as many of the members are ex-Muslims who seem to have legitimate complaints about the way they have been treated since leaving the religion, what is the left’s message to these people? .



oh really? got any evidence to back up this assertion? When i met them at a stall in bramley they were absolutely a bunch of old, white, far right racist fuckwits - gibbering on about "puppets of soros" and our tommy.


----------



## Beavis22 (Jun 16, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> What is this 'new far right'? What are it's central defining characteristics?



I have to do parenting stuff now but will try and respond properly later. In the meantime, When this article was written Privilege and Prejudice:  Social justice in an age of male confusion
These people and the tommy Robinson’s and Anne Marie types were totally separate, they are merging into a single movement around issues such as free speech. The FLA UKIP types are by far the smaller group, but they could run it as they are the more politically astute.


----------



## Libertad (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> I also think that’s partly why the new right could win



Win what exactly?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 16, 2018)

The internet


----------



## bimble (Jun 16, 2018)

That 'for britain' party, i didn't know it was a thing but um yeah i think its ok to 'just call them racists'.
eg in their manifesto :
- Reduce or abolish inheritance tax'
- ensure immigration from culturally appropriate countries only"
- Remove all Marxist based indoctrination from the classroom
- Require all foreign visitors to have adequate health insurance and all necessary inoculation to prevent eradicated diseases re-entering the UK
- end politicised and multicultural policing and all unofficial practice of Sharia Law"
- Ban the burqa as a security threat'
etc etc


----------



## Stay Beautiful (Jun 16, 2018)

bimble said:


> That 'for britain' party, i didn't know it was a thing but um yeah i think its ok to 'just call them racists'.
> eg in their manifesto :
> - Reduce or abolish inheritance tax'
> - ensure immigration from culturally appropriate countries only"
> ...



Anne Marie Waters party after splitting from UKIP. Sadly for her UKIP in rapid time have now gone full 'Robinson-ite' and Gerard Batten has stolen her thunder somewhat. One wonders how long Farage can square the circle in all of this? He said a Waters victory in the last leadership would mean the racists and bigots had taken over. Well Batten is now going right down that road. It is surely a case of call it a day with UKIP or try and take the thing back? Has he got the numbers anymore? Events seems to be passing him by.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 16, 2018)

as amusingly far removed from reality that manifesto is, what the hell are STEMM skills? This is my job and I have no idea what the second M is? As they are bonkers, could it be Military?


----------



## existentialist (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> I disagree, I think there is a point there and you are just to ideological to see it and really don’t want to see it because it means questioning what you believe. This is just my opinion. I also think that’s partly why the new right could win and why the liberal left establishment could lose. Right now it’s like the old order is breaking down (and has been for about a decade) and a new consensus is yet to arrive. It’s breaking down much faster in Europe granted, but I see signs it’s started here too.


So that's what a nazi salute sounds like. I did wonder...


----------



## existentialist (Jun 16, 2018)

gawkrodger said:


> as amusingly far removed from reality that manifesto is, what the hell are STEMM skills? This is my job and I have no idea what the second M is? As they are bonkers, could it be Military?


Masturbation.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 16, 2018)

Medicine.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 16, 2018)

gawkrodger said:


> as amusingly far removed from reality that manifesto is, what the hell are STEMM skills? This is my job and I have no idea what the second M is? As they are bonkers, could it be Military?


Sounds very likely to be this management bollocks.



> Realising the goals of rebalancing the British economy, of enhancing our competitiveness requires investment in STEM. But it also requires investing in that capacity which translates invention into innovation, which transforms a groundbreaking discovery into a world-beating business. There is a need to move from investment narrowly focused on STEM to being about investment in STEMM where Management is as core to the policy discourse as Science and Engineering. Rebalancing this discourse is critical to rebalancing the economy of the future.


----------



## fishfinger (Jun 16, 2018)

Won't someone think of the managers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> I disagree, I think there is a point there and you are just to ideological to see it and really don’t want to see it because it means questioning what you believe. This is just my opinion. I also think that’s partly why the new right could win and why the liberal left establishment could lose. Right now it’s like the old order is breaking down (and has been for about a decade) and a new consensus is yet to arrive. It’s breaking down much faster in Europe granted, but I see signs it’s started here too.


i hate to break it to you but the uk is in europe


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 16, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> oh really? got any evidence to back up this assertion? When i met them at a stall in bramley they were absolutely a bunch of old, white, far right racist fuckwits - gibbering on about "puppets of soros" and our tommy.


I think he, Beavis , has got carried away with this picture


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 16, 2018)

> Mass expansion of Universities must be controlled to assist housing stock
> erosion


The intention is well meaning but the phrasing isnt helpful


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 16, 2018)

multople tenant occupancies aren't the sole preserve of students in this day and age either, plenty of house shares for shift workers etc. And I mean houseshares, not a terraced converted to two flats.


----------



## Beavis22 (Jun 16, 2018)

Libertad said:


> Win what exactly?


Win the culture. Win in the way old UKIP won. They started winning 10% plus in general elections so the tories had to give in to their demand for a referendum and starting singing their tune. In a decade the country will be more conservative than it is now if the new far right win. People like Douglas Murray will just seem like normal common sense rather than controversial. The old far right were openly racist, the new far right aren’t racially prejudiced but they are culturally prejudiced and don’t believe all cultures are equal. They are currently winning because the left are in an echo chamber.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Win the culture. Win in the way old UKIP won. They started winning 10% plus in general elections so the tories had to give in to their demand for a referendum and starting singing their tune. In a decade the country will be more conservative than it is now if the new far right win. People like Douglas Murray will just seem like normal common sense rather than controversial. The old far right were openly racist, the new far right aren’t racially prejudiced but they are culturally prejudiced and don’t believe all cultures are equal. They are currently winning because the left are in an echo chamber.


the far right is not conservative, as the alternative name for them, the radical right, indicates. it's like saying hitler was a conservative. mussolini was a conservative. it's utter bollocks.

but people like douglas murray will always appear loons, in some ways the world never changes.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Win the culture. Win in the way old UKIP won. They started winning 10% plus in general elections so the tories had to give in to their demand for a referendum and starting singing their tune. In a decade the country will be more conservative than it is now if the new far right win. People like Douglas Murray will just seem like normal common sense rather than controversial. The old far right were openly racist, the new far right aren’t racially prejudiced but they are culturally prejudiced and don’t believe all cultures are equal. They are currently winning because the left are in an echo chamber.


They hide their racism under culturalism precisely because they know racism in not acceptable - that it is a potent accusation that has harmed them significantly in the past because anti-racism is now the common sense of both society and the states institutions. But your earlier intervention was to say that accusations of racism no longer have any power. The far right seem to think that they do.

Btw this culturalism as hidden racism is not new - it's been part of the original new right (or at least the last major 'new right', that is the french one around de benoist not the neo-liberal one of the late 70s/80s tory and republican right that this culturalist right is vehemently opposed to) since the late 60s.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Win the culture. Win in the way old UKIP won. They started winning 10% plus in general elections so the tories had to give in to their demand for a referendum and starting singing their tune. In a decade the country will be more conservative than it is now if the new far right win. People like Douglas Murray will just seem like normal common sense rather than controversial. The old far right were openly racist, the new far right aren’t racially prejudiced but they are culturally prejudiced and don’t believe all cultures are equal. They are currently winning because the left are in an echo chamber.


Revisionism.


----------



## Beavis22 (Jun 16, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> They hide their racism under culturalism precisely because they know racism in not acceptable - that it is a potent accusation that has harmed them significantly in the past because anti-racism is now the common sense of both society and the states institutions. But your earlier intervention was to say that accusations of racism no longer have any power. The far right seem to think that they do.


In that case they seem to manage to hide it pretty well from their non white members. My first realisation that the right were now bigger than the left was last year in Edinburgh. There was some right wing demonstration against terrorism and a much smaller counter demonstration. Some people from the anti terrorism demonstration, none of whom were white, approached the counter demonstrators, all of whom were white, and the counter demonstrators all started screaming hysterically that the non-white people were racists. It was the most surreal thing I’d ever seen, then I realised that the left had well and turely lost the plot. In my youth I was a committed SSP voter, seeing what the far left have become makes me ashamed of this.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> In that case they seem to manage to hide it pretty well from their non white members. My first realisation that the right were now bigger than the left was last year in Edinburgh. There was some right wing demonstration against terrorism and a much smaller counter demonstration. Some people from the anti terrorism demonstration, none of whom were white, approached the counter demonstrators, all of whom were white, and the counter demonstrators all started screaming hysterically that the non-white people were racists. It was the most surreal thing I’d ever seen, then I realised that the left had well and turely lost the plot. In my youth I was a committed SSP voter, seeing what the far left have become makes me ashamed of this.


soz the left are smaller than the right? and you base this on one demo in edinburgh?


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## Beavis22 (Jun 16, 2018)

existentialist said:


> So that's what a nazi salute sounds like. I did wonder...


Just noticed this now. Since vile abuse is what seems to counts for debate and discussion around here I’m gone. Not posting on this site again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Just noticed this now. Since vile abuse is what seems to counts for debate and discussion around here I’m gone. Not posting on this site again.


sales of tiny violins have gone through the roof


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Just noticed this now. Since vile abuse is what seems to counts for debate and discussion around here I’m gone. Not posting on this site again.


Blessingtons.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> In that case they seem to manage to hide it pretty well from their non white members. My first realisation that the right were now bigger than the left was last year in Edinburgh. There was some right wing demonstration against terrorism and a much smaller counter demonstration. Some people from the anti terrorism demonstration, none of whom were white, approached the counter demonstrators, all of whom were white, and the counter demonstrators all started screaming hysterically that the non-white people were racists. It was the most surreal thing I’d ever seen, then I realised that the left had well and turely lost the plot. In my youth I was a committed SSP voter, seeing what the far left have become makes me ashamed of this.


You think it's impossible for the 'new far right' to hide racism behind culture to a handful of non-central camp followers? Or that, the latter couldn't put up with it for some reason. Tommy Robinson/Stephen Lennon himself *as well as other participants in the original edl and related groups) said that this was exactly what happened.

 Ok, you said 'the new far right' has moved on from race to culture. What made this movement necessary? What drove it? And why are the same people who were always very clear on it being all about race still involved? Are they genuinely no longer racist or have they - being aware of the damage the sting of racism can deliver - decided on another way to present themselves in order to attempt to fit in with wider social understandings?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Just noticed this now. Since vile abuse is what seems to counts for debate and discussion around here I’m gone. Not posting on this site again.


being as you make out the fascists on the winning side and you do not concern yourself greatly with defeating countervailing arguments i cannot say your departure the tragedy you believe it should be.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Just noticed this now. Since vile abuse is what seems to counts for debate and discussion around here I’m gone. Not posting on this site again.


Heh. I got distracted and went to go and do something else, but I was going to make a post here along the lines of "if the traditional trajectory holds true, there'll be a bit of back and forth, and then our noble Warrior Of The Right, who has already decided on a moment's acquaintance with Urban exactly how it works, will give up on it with disgust. Anything rather than accept that presumptously bouncing onto a board and telling everyone what they ought to think, on the basis of a few flimsy arguments and lots of handwavery, was ever going to go down well."

Only you've saved me the trouble. Jolly good. Don't let the door, etc.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Just noticed this now. Since vile abuse is what seems to counts for debate and discussion around here I’m gone. Not posting on this site again.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 16, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


>


TBF, he might not post again under the same username...

Although I wouldn't put it past him. Some people do love to have the last word...it could be like the fat lady's demise in any opera you care to name...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 16, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> . Some people from the anti terrorism demonstration, none of whom were white.



i totally and utterly believe this far right demo was only attended by people of colour. that really would be a major shift in the usual demographic they attract and utterly upset the apple cart of anti-racism/fascism. 
thanks for pointing this out - i will now look at all these pictures in a different light
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	












yep - the far right -  its total fucking rainbow.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2018)

shouldn't british fascists be drinking british beer?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 16, 2018)

it's also been a longstanding disappointment to me that so many england fans on the right feel the need to remind themselves a) what the england flag is, and implicitly b) which way up it goes.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 16, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 138260
> shouldn't british fascists be drinking british beer?


Yeah, but for the true Nazi effect, only German beer reaches the parts, etc...


----------



## Poi E (Jun 16, 2018)

Better be Bavarian.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 16, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 138260
> shouldn't british fascists be drinking british beer?



Holsten is owned by carslberg and what he is drinking is brewed in Northampton

if you look really closely at the ingredients, it has glucose syrup in it- that beer has never even heard of Reinheitsgebot

british beer for british patriots


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 16, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> your bias is showing. as is your ignorance. slum clearances continued into the 1980s.



They were definitely knocking down large areas of back-to-backs in Leeds in the early 80s, possibly local to Kaka Tim (Wortley and Burley). I know of a few streets demolished since I moved there in 1989, though replaced with local authority housing or left vacant. More recent than you’d think.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 16, 2018)

my parents house was trashed about 82 when the outside bogs, tin baths and coal houses fell out of favour

Now I live in Peckham, i see back to back povery chic is all the rage amongst the bright young things

but yes, outside London, there were still classic slums kicking about. Still there, but have donned new clothes


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 16, 2018)

The ‘police were worried about racism’ thing is such a crock of shit. Plod not exactly known for their PC attitude (no deliberate pun there!) - more a case of them pointing the finger elsewhere rather than accept that they let people down because they didn’t think they were worth it, a mix of contempt for very marginalised children and not wanting to deal with troubled/difficult and potential unreliable victims. They didn’t think these girls mattered, but easier to pretend their hands were tied by political correctness than own up to this.

Surely the fash know this too and are just being disingenuous, or are they really that stupid/trusting of the police narrative?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 16, 2018)

I wouldnt underestimate how RW the white rank and file coppery still are.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 17, 2018)

Absofuckinglutely


----------



## Athos (Jun 17, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> Just noticed this now. Since vile abuse is what seems to counts for debate and discussion around here I’m gone. Not posting on this site again.



We're gutted. Please stay.


----------



## Athos (Jun 17, 2018)

Beavis22 said:


> In that case they seem to manage to hide it pretty well from their non white members. My first realisation that the right were now bigger than the left was last year in Edinburgh. There was some right wing demonstration against terrorism and a much smaller counter demonstration. Some people from the anti terrorism demonstration, none of whom were white, approached the counter demonstrators, all of whom were white, and the counter demonstrators all started screaming hysterically that the non-white people were racists. It was the most surreal thing I’d ever seen, then I realised that the left had well and turely lost the plot. In my youth I was a committed SSP voter, seeing what the far left have become makes me ashamed of this.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 17, 2018)

Athos said:


> We're gutted. Please stay.


Your post appears to lack sincerity


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 17, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> The ‘police were worried about racism’ thing is such a crock of shit. Plod not exactly known for their PC attitude (no deliberate pun there!) - more a case of them pointing the finger elsewhere rather than accept that they let people down because they didn’t think they were worth it, a mix of contempt for very marginalised children and not wanting to deal with troubled/difficult and potential unreliable victims. They didn’t think these girls mattered, but easier to pretend their hands were tied by political correctness than own up to this.
> 
> Surely the fash know this too and are just being disingenuous, or are they really that stupid/trusting of the police narrative?



Sorry but the 'worried about racism' for both council and police services particularly at the elected member and  PCC level wasnt  a crock of shit.Its not all the story and you are right about the other factors. As for the Police's PC attitude have a  look at just about any  Police forces social media.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 17, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> As for the Police's PC attitude have a  look at just about any  Police forces social media.



As we know , views expressed  on social media are always an accurate reflection of the poster's intent.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 17, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> As we know , views expressed  on social media are always an accurate reflection of the poster's intent.


The truth is out there


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 17, 2018)

do we have any more than the word of the pc themselves or their twitter accounts? because the 'police afraid of racism accusations' has been a very very weak line since day one, only given legs by 'repeat authoritatively until its true'  so far as I can see.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 17, 2018)

Never met a lefty cop. I know a couple I'd love to have around if I was in a jam but they are right wing twerps, too. Thank fuck most cops aren't armed.


----------



## Almor (Jun 17, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> do we have any more than the word of the pc themselves or their twitter accounts? because the 'police afraid of racism accusations' has been a very very weak line since day one, only given legs by 'repeat authoritatively until its true'  so far as I can see.


 
I find it a weak excuse for the inaction too, I looked up stop and search numbers and they didn't look like a police force scared of appearing racist, some of the abusers were convicted criminals, that the police only started caring about looking racist when they received reports of serious sexual abuse seems unlikely to me, although the discussion on the beating the fascists thread and reading back some of the Rotherham thread have given me some doubts.

There are other child sex abuse scandals where the police can't use that excuse and it just looks like they were incapable/uncaring/dismissive


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 17, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Never met a lefty cop. I know a couple I'd love to have around if I was in a jam but they are right wing twerps, too. Thank fuck most cops aren't armed.



Met a few. Not lefty but perhaps leaning to that. But more than often, the right wing cops are legion.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 17, 2018)

Reiabuzz said:


> Ok, well maybe it would make an interesting subject for another thread. Free speech on urban75 that is.
> 
> I'm very conscious of being shot down here and that in my opinion ain't a great thing in itself for a supposedly intelligent and open minded forum. And with that I'm off this thread.



And back as Beavis22?


----------



## bemused (Jun 17, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> As for the Police's PC attitude have a  look at just about any  Police forces social media.



I'm curious, do you have an systemic examples of the Police's 'PC attitude' outside of social media?

In the context of what Robinson campaigns on, grooming gangs, I think the GMP faced legitimate criticism for the Rochdale case, but I've never sensed that any force is now avoiding addressing crimes within any community. In the case of grooming gangs, there have been and continue to be trials facing hundreds of offenders.  
'


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 18, 2018)

Many seem to think that there are more vectors at work with Lennon-mania than just standard fash bibble.

There's the way the US r/w have latched onto things. 

There's the general gibbering and post-truth aspects of modern social media, and more besides I'm sure.

All these feed into quite high demo turnout and social media shares of martyr myth BS about a guy who revels in the chance of getting nonces off the hook.

I had a minor brainwave yesterday regarding another factor: Without going into massive detail you may well be aware of the rise of "paedo hunting" groups in recent years. What started as a small number of often quite well organised and disciplined groups and individuals has become something of a flood of amateurs.

The whys and wherefores of the practice are for another thread, but what it generates is 10,000s of people who are worked up about nonces (understandably and largely regardless of colour, faith). Live stuff appears in their feed in the way Lennon's court capers did. 

I think he has consciously / unconsciously tapped into that bunch of people, there's a lot of them and many are not natural EDL types. As such, they probably don't even know/care about the EDL or r/w politics but given a surface reading of what's happened and backed up with plenty of r/w articles from here and the US, some of them are prime cases for being duped into distorted islamophobic lies and de facto campaigning for the endangerment of nonce trials. 

Interested in what people think of this angle.


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## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2018)

I see that Paul Joseph Watson, Count Dankular and Sargon of Akkad have all joined UKIP.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 19, 2018)

The English Democrats must look on in envy.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 19, 2018)

Doug Stanhope seems to have been pissed off with how many EDL types had adopted his nihilistic and angry comedy rants as supporting their views. He's spent the last day blocking racists and telling people to fuck off and not come to his UK tour.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 19, 2018)

Jesus. Subversive comedy subverted by the audience.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jun 19, 2018)

I do remember being held back by a line of older coppers, who may have been specials though, looking at some very goose-steppy fash

  and we heard them saying

 'Bloody hell, they're the people we fought a war against and we're protecting them'

'Couldn't we just break through here and see them off?

'More than our job's worth, sorry lads'

Maybe not left wing, but unsympathetic to the right.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 19, 2018)

Any excuse for kicking a few heads, eh?


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 19, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I see that Paul Joseph Watson, Count Dankular and Sargon of Akkad have all joined UKIP.



Sargon currently moaning that his membership has been rejected by "Neo Nazi Larpers".


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 19, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I see that Paul Joseph Watson, Count Dankular and Sargon of Akkad have all joined UKIP.



Daresay the Trumptard cunts have moved on from thinking it's good to risk nonces going free and are now cheering on or making excuses for child abuse at the southern border. God knows what happens to some of those kids, and the scum just love it. Victims are and only ever were political pawns.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Sargon currently moaning that his membership has been rejected by "Neo Nazi Larpers".


What does that mean?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2018)

Larp is Live action role play i believe


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 19, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> What does that mean?



Your guess is probably nearly as good as mine.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 19, 2018)

Jesus Christ


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2018)

I'm choking up


----------



## iona (Jun 19, 2018)

Don't think anyone's posted this yet?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 20, 2018)

JuanTwoThree said:


> I do remember being held back by a line of older coppers, who may have been specials though, looking at some very goose-steppy fash
> 
> and we heard them saying
> 
> ...



Happy to work for an organisation that consistently defends nazis and fucks over the people who come out to oppose them, so as usual whatever their personal principles they might as well not have any.


----------



## bemused (Jun 20, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Sargon currently moaning that his membership has been rejected by "Neo Nazi Larpers".



lol .... rejected by UKIP


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jun 20, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Count Dankular and Sargon of Akkad



They sound like Dungeons & Dragons characters.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They sound like Dungeons & Dragons characters.


Sargon of akkad I think from ancient history


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 20, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They sound like Dungeons & Dragons characters.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 23, 2018)

the tommy botherers are having an impromptu rally in leeds tomorrow. Why they are doing this two weeks before the more widely advertised one on the 7th is unclear. Maybe they hope that there will be less numbers to oppose them as all the mainstream groups - unions,labour party - are focused on the 7th and their is a big joe cox memorial event tomorrow. Seeing as they whistled up few hundred a short notice a few days after our tommy's suicide-by-judge - i think we could see similar numbers - or bigger - tomorrow and only a small anti-fa turn out. High likely hood of trouble - cops seem to think so as they've cancelled all leave and other events.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 24, 2018)

Some Tommy supporters meet resistance on the streets of Belfast
‘UK Freedom March’ rally in Belfast sparks anti-fascist protests

_Many of the 100 or so people on the UK Freedom March side, chanted “Oh Tommy Robinson”, a reference to the pseudonym of the former English Defence League leader Stephen Yaxley Lennon, a high profile British far-right figure who was jailed for 13 months in England recently for contempt of court. 


Others declined to speak to the “biased media” on their arrival outside City Hall following a parade from the Sandy Row area of south Belfast.


Several attempts by the The Irish Times to speak to protesters carrying union, Irish, Israeli, football and far-right Generation Identity flags were thwarted by stewards wearing high visibility vests at the event._


----------



## LDC (Jun 24, 2018)

Few quick observations on the 'Free Tommy' demo yesterday in Leeds...

It gathered outside the court, and the counter demo met about 200m or so away outside the art gallery/town hall. There was a gin festival in yurts and tents between us, Leeds in 2018  - or a middle class buffer zone as some wit mentioned.

The FT demo saw about 200 people maximum at its height, probably more like 150 if you exclude passers by that stopped to watch. It quickly ended up with 50 or so of the most rowdy blocked in between 2 lines of police. The rest drifted about, and eventually the whole thing dispersed.

The city was really busy, it was Armed Forces day in the city centre as well, with loads of stalls and recruiting/celebrating type things going on. Their demo never got near it, the court is a bit away thankfully. TBH the demo looked more bonkers than I thought it was going to be, less free speech orientated and more some slightly weird cult of little Tommy.

Demographic of attendees was mostly 20-50 something men, pretty much looked like a traditional EDL crowd, no more mixed that than. Quite a few of them were heard to be moaning about the lack of numbers and bad organization, but were optimistic the one on the 7th July will be much bigger. Common chatter in their ranks and flavor of the chants was he was set up by the elites for telling the truth, multicultural disaster, Muslim gangs being protected, that kind of bonkers nonsense. Most of their anger seemed to be directed towards to the police (police state stuff was often chanted) and the court and the vague 'establishment' rather than muslims or antifa. There were a few arrests of them, mostly for being drunk and really annoying I'd have thought.

The counter demo was about 200-250. Lacked any impetus really, normal demographic for these things, and was fully soft policed by the police liaison teams. Also drifted off after a few hours.

If I think of anything more useful after a coffee I'll stick it up here.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jun 24, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> - or a middle class buffer zone as some wit mentioned.


----------



## JimW (Jun 24, 2018)

"Careful, someone might get yurt."


----------



## Poi E (Jun 24, 2018)

JimW said:


> "Careful, someone might get yurt."



Best album by far.

Edit: wrong thread, sorry.


----------



## LDC (Jun 24, 2018)

JimW said:


> "Careful, someone might get yurt."



Given that razor sharp quip, can you come up with any piss-taking Tommy Robinson chants? The more belittling and humiliating the better.


----------



## JimW (Jun 24, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Given that razor sharp quip, can you come up with any piss-taking Tommy Robinson chants? The more belittling and humiliating the better.


Writer's block immediately sets in.

ETA Had a fag and came up with:

He's the peado's best friend,
He's the peado's best friend,
Trial-wrecker Tommy.
He's the peado's best friend.

To the old terrace tune.

Not great, I admit


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 24, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> the tommy botherers are having an impromptu rally in leeds tomorrow. Why they are doing this two weeks before the more widely advertised one on the 7th is unclear. Maybe they hope that there will be less numbers to oppose them as all the mainstream groups - unions,labour party - are focused on the 7th and their is a big joe cox memorial event tomorrow. Seeing as they whistled up few hundred a short notice a few days after our tommy's suicide-by-judge - i think we could see similar numbers - or bigger - tomorrow and only a small anti-fa turn out. High likely hood of trouble - cops seem to think so as they've cancelled all leave and other events.



nice one. bit gutted not to be able to get to this as i had to be somewhere else in town at the same time. I was walking through town at 12.30 expecting to see marauding goblets of knuckle draggers but the  only sign of anything was one family where the women was wearing a "Free Tommy" t-shirt.

Relived that they got so few numbers - Im mystified why they called this demo TBH - anyone outside the hard core who turned up will likely be put off future events. Hopefully this might undermine turn out on the 7th. Well done to anti-fa who turned out - pretty decent showing in the circumstances.


----------



## LDC (Jun 24, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> ...I'm mystified why they called this demo TBH...



Listening to some of them they seemed a bit baffled to why it had been called as well - on top of their general bafflement at the world. There was a fair bit of grumbling about it, hopefully it'll sow some seeds of internal dissent among them as well as like you say making them look weak and bonkers to any casual attendees.

Although with the CPGB-ML micro-gang flying 2 large hammer and sickle flags and a Syrian flag at the antifa demo we had our own bonkers faction.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 28, 2018)

Good article here from Paul Mason

Ukip’s turn to the alt-right is a warning sign - we need to fight back

_The liberal intelligentsia neither knows or cares; the mass media is oblivious; and their combined indifference provides further proof to the conspiracists that this important story is actually being suppressed by the establishment. 

The liberal centre is, as always, clueless about how to defeat far right politics. When I commented that the BBC News bulletin on 9 June had actually failed to report a major far right riot in the centre of London, numerous people said “good”. Better not to give them publicity has been the liberal centre’s excuse for failing to fight fascism since the 1920s. _


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 28, 2018)

at future demos there should be some bob placards


----------



## Poi E (Jun 28, 2018)

Odd that Mason implies the liberal intelligentsia, whatever it is, should be  opposed to the far right.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jun 28, 2018)

Mason’s article is full on, jumped the shark, “don’t care what you think” Popular Frontism. He calls for anti fascist unity with conservatives and security services/state action against the far right. He doesn’t have the excuse of not knowing how popular frontism ended last time. His argument rests on the left allying with, nay, depending upon, the very forces responsible for creating the preconditions for fascism in the first place.
Mason is now a caricature of the “apolitical” ex-SWPer, (or “left wing” US Democrat for that matter) desperately flailing around for an angle, flummoxed as to who has agency, looking for some force with the power to act and coming up with ........the existing neo-liberal establishment and the national security state.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 28, 2018)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> Mason’s article is full on, jumped the shark, “don’t care what you think” Popular Frontism. He calls for anti fascist unity with conservatives and security services/state action against the far right. He doesn’t have the excuse of not knowing how popular frontism ended last time. His argument rests on the left allying with, nay, depending upon, the very forces responsible for creating the preconditions for fascism in the first place.
> Mason is now a caricature of the “apolitical” ex-SWPer, (or “left wing” US Democrat for that matter) desperately flailing around for an angle, flummoxed as to who has agency, looking for some force with the power to act and coming up with ........the existing neo-liberal establishment and the national security state.


Ex-workers power, technically .


----------



## treelover (Jun 28, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> at future demos there should be some bob placards



blast from the past


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 28, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Good article here from Paul Mason
> 
> Ukip’s turn to the alt-right is a warning sign - we need to fight back
> 
> ...



pay wall jobby for me (only allowed so many articles per year of summit)  - could you cut and past it?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 28, 2018)

Some supporters turned up to heckle/disrupt the state of London address with the mayor this evening...lasted about 10 mins...oh, Tommy, Tommy... okay Thanks, byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....


----------



## Poi E (Jun 28, 2018)

God, they get everywhere.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 29, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> pay wall jobby for me (only allowed so many articles per year of summit)  - could you cut and past it?



Will do:

I’ve always said that if Brexit is the worst thing that happens to Britain - as centrism and the global order implode - we’ll have got away lightly. What it would mean not to get away lightly is becoming clear, as the forces of the UK far right converge around a single project.

Ukip, under new leader Gerard Batten, has reoriented itself towards street politics and the groups who specialise in it. On 9 June, the party took part in a demonstration to free jailed English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson, which became a drunken rampage across Whitehall, totally outflanking the police deployed to contain it.



									 On 23 June, Ukip joined the counter-demonstration against the anti-Brexit march, rubbing shoulders once again with an increasingly familiar set of open racists: the Democratic Football Lads Alliance (DFLA), the Veterans Against Terrorism group, whose elderly members turned up in service berets, and Generation Identity.

At that march, Ukip MEP Janice Atkinson accused the Jewish financier George Soros of running a “Euro Communist” conspiracy to flood the West with Muslim refugees. Meanwhile, three key video bloggers from the US-inspired alt-right - Paul Joseph Watson, Mark Meechan and Carl Benjamin have been allowed to join Ukip. Each has massive followings on the social media platforms they are still tolerated on. Meechan is famous for getting his pug dog to give Nazi salutes as he says “gas the Jews”.

Veteran far right watchers say the two marches, preceded by a surge of mobilisations in support of Robinson, mark a breakthrough for the far right. It’s been accompanied by a change in Ukip’s rhetoric. Having focused mainly on Europe, immigration and stoking up hostility to Islam, Ukip’s billboard driven around on the side of a van last Saturday advised people to Google “Soros immigration” and “Bilderberg Group” – two classic obsessions of the anti-Semitic right.




Though the far right in Britain remains small, the 9 June demo was its biggest for decades, pulling in a clear demographic of young, white, working class men and women, and drawing on a wide online subculture of racism, Islamophobia and conspiracy theories that goes largely unnoticed by the liberal mainstream.

What we’re seeing is the convergence of three strands of far right activism that, in Britain, have remained distinct until now.

One is the hardcore of violent racists who want to pursue a “street first” project, exerting their rights to “free speech” - for example by picketing kebab shops and supermarkets selling halal meat. The three English football fans charged last week after singing “Spurs are on their way to Auschwitz; Hitler’s gonna gas them again,” while making the Nazi salute in a bar in Volgograd, are emblematic of that tendency.

Another is US-inspired online alt-right activism. Paul Joseph Watson, newly issued with a Ukip membership card, has 800k+ Twitter followers and a huge audience in the USA, where alongside Alex Jones, on the internet channel Infowars, he peddles conspiracy theories and fake news. The point about the online alt-right is that it comes with a heavily theorised (if largely incoherent) conspiracy theory of the world that traditional British fascism lacked the brain cells for.


In their world, mass migration has turned western cities into hellholes of crime, rape and murder. Western civilisation is under threat. Culture war has erupted into real violence and the only question remaining is when does the shooting start.

The point about the alt-right is that it’s international. It has serious money and organisational expertise – which anti-fascist monitoring groups believe is now being used to mobilise around Tommy Robinson in the UK. And its agenda is international. A murder in Sweden, which would never make the news in Britain, becomes a lurid headline on _Breitbart _and is spread among grass roots Ukippers and politicised football fans to the point where it becomes folklore in the pubs and clubs of Britain.

The liberal intelligentsia neither knows or cares; the mass media is oblivious; and their combined indifference provides further proof to the conspiracists that this important story is actually being suppressed by the establishment.

The third element in the mix is Ukip. And where it’s all going is clear.

Over the summer, Theresa May will have to level with the hard-right Brexiteers in her cabinet and parliamentary party, that Britain is going to end up in a customs union, a single market for goods, most likely permanently aligned with the EU on services and committed to something very close to free movement. It will be paying money to Brussels and it will be subject to judgments by the European Court of Justice.


As these facts become clear to the Tory right they will stage a tantrum but not a walkout. That opens the political space, not just for a Ukip 2.0 party, but for it to re-emerge with two new “wings” – its street wing, largely middle-aged football “lads” and a few ex-servicemen; and its online wing, fuelled by the international alt-right, egged on by the ruling Lega party in Italy and the coalition of xenophobes that governs Hungary, Austria and Poland.

The liberal centre is, as always, clueless about how to defeat far right politics. When I commented that the BBC News bulletin on 9 June had actually failed to report a major far right riot in the centre of London, numerous people said “good”. Better not to give them publicity has been the liberal centre’s excuse for failing to fight fascism since the 1920s.

Unfortunately, they don’t need publicity anymore. The combined following of the big three online activists who just joined Ukip runs into millions. Money, expertise and energy will be poured into overlapping networks to resist the “betrayal” of Brexit. That is the far right’s script from now until March 2019.

And after that, as global businesses flee Britain, as growth stagnates, will come the search for scapegoats. On this, if on nothing else, Tony Blair is right: it leads in a 1930s direction.

*What should be done*

By the Tory government? Stop pandering to the agenda of the racist right; be honest with the British people that hard Brexit was a chimera; deploy the full panoply of security measures to deter and monitor the violent projects of the racists. For clarity, unlike many on the left, that means I am in favour of state suppression of fascist groups.

By the liberal centre? By all means protest against Brexit and demand a “second vote”. But understand that decent, Labour voting working class people now have to live in communities and in an online space polluted with the “stab in the back” narrative. If there is a second referendum, the concessions already made by Theresa May mean that a hard, no-deal Brexit is already off the ballot paper. The choice would effectively be between accepting what May negotiates and staying in. The political forces of xenophobia and racism in Britain will at this point be supercharged.

If Britain’s multi-ethnic cities then become targets for a campaign of racist marches against the Brexit “betrayal” it is incumbent on every democrat to turn up and confront – yes, confront – the kind of people who marched on 23 June changing “Whose streets? Our streets?”

As for the broadcasters, they now face serious dilemmas. The BBC in the run up to Brexit booked Nigel Farage an almost permanent seat on its primetime outlets. With Ukip’s turn to outright extremism, flirting with anti-Semitic rhetoric and openly backing Robinson, there should no place for them on the broadcast media, other than what is required by electoral law.

By the labour movement? Mobilise. On 14 July, the far right will picket Downing Street calling for Tommy Robinson to be freed. We should oppose them in large numbers.

This won’t be a re-run of the battles in the 1970s against the National Front and the Powellite wing of the Tories. Ukip comes with the veneer of a party that gained 3.8 million votes in 2015. There was no internet, no troll farms, no American alt-right money to spread fake news, and no Russian hybrid warfare stoking up the tensions.

Above all, the far right will have a real cause celebre, to underpin all its obsessions, prejudices and conspiracies: Brexit will fail.

It will fail in the very terms the _Mail_ and _Sun_ have stoked up among the plebeian base of right-wing conservatism: Britain will remain aligned to the EU regulatory superpower only with reduced influence on it. It will not be “free” of Europe; it will have been subjected to a stinging diplomatic and reputational defeat.

If you then add in a Corbyn-led government, with a black home secretary and an immigration policy based on tolerance, not hostility, the far right’s script writes itself.

The progressive half of Britain needs a narrative to overcome this threat: a narrative based on shared, historic values of democracy and tolerance, backed by the return of growth and prosperity to left behind towns and cities that breed groups like the DFLA. For the purposes of argument I include Theresa May, Boris Johnson and Sajid Javid in the progressive half of Britain and ask them: faced with the developments outlined above - stop pandering to right-wing nationalism and xenophobia and start fighting it.


----------



## alex_ (Jun 29, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> pay wall jobby for me (only allowed so many articles per year of summit)  - could you cut and past it?



Go to outline.com stick the url in there.


----------



## hot air baboon (Jun 29, 2018)

deleting cookies works for me aswell

minor quibble : Janice Atkinson is ex-UKIP having parted company over some creative expense claims


----------



## Arbeter Fraynd (Jun 29, 2018)

People like Mason seeing themselves as on the same side as May and Johnson has more to do with a cause than solution to the current rise of the far right


----------



## agricola (Jun 29, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Some supporters turned up to heckle/disrupt the state of London address with the mayor this evening...lasted about 10 mins...oh, Tommy, Tommy... okay Thanks, byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....



Some background on one attendee of that protest:



> So far, so tedious: one cannot object to free dissenting speech. But it was the backstory that should cause disquiet among all those who do not yet take the far right seriously. The protests, it seems, were connected to an incident where a drunk driver ran over and killed three teenage boys. Jaynesh Chudasama had entered a guilty plea; in the event, as he had fled the scene, this counted for little, and he was jailed for 13 years.
> 
> The maximum jail sentence at present for death by dangerous driving is 14 years. But what does this have to do with Sadiq Khan, and indeed Stephen Yaxley Lennon, who styles himself Tommy Robinson? Ah well. Rather than keep out of the matter, Lennon has been egging on at least one of the bereaved parents into believing that this was a terrorist attack. It wasn’t. The driver was drunk. And he wasn’t a Scary Muslim™.
> 
> ...


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 29, 2018)

agricola said:


> Some background on one attendee of that protest:



Post liked but not really _liked_. Iykwim.

That's so awful that her loss is being exploited and woven into a bigotry and conspiracy theories. It's so fucked up


----------



## billbond (Jun 29, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Some supporters turned up to heckle/disrupt the state of London address with the mayor this evening...lasted about 10 mins...oh, Tommy, Tommy... okay Thanks, byeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee....



Bit like the ones who turned up at the moggy one last yr , Byeeeeeeeeeeeeeee


----------



## Poi E (Jun 29, 2018)

Just think, there's no bulwark against this nativist right other than the British state. Good Lord.


----------



## agricola (Jun 29, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Post liked but not really _liked_. Iykwim.
> 
> That's so awful that her loss is being exploited and woven into a bigotry and conspiracy theories. It's so fucked up



Indeed.  When you hear her speak you can almost see the dividing line between her pain and grievance (the bloke got concurrent sentences rather than consecutive ones, so in effect he will only get six years for killing three people - which is outrageous) and the bits where other people have woven in their own issues into her narrative.  Obviously that is how they operate, but even for them this is an especially vile example.


----------



## treelover (Jun 29, 2018)

If you go on the TR FB page, there is an increasing amount of people, most over 60, , including many women, who say it will be their first ever march on the 14th, they see Robinson as some sort of cipher for the old england that has gone, it won't be a good look if they are attacked on the day whatever their views. analysing those who are going it also seems to have graduates, inc Cambridge ones, going, as well as East/Central Europeans, it looks like it will be very different than past ones. Though also plenty of WC Tories/Kippers, etc.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 29, 2018)

treelover said:


> If you go on the TR FB page, there is an increasing amount of people, most over 60, , including many women, who say it will be their first ever march on the 14th, they see Robinson as some sort of cipher for the old england that has gone, it won't be a good look if they are attacked on the day whatever their views. analysing those who are going it also seems to have graduates, inc cambridge ones, going, it looks like it will be very different than past ones. Though also plenty of WC Tories/Kippers, etc.



How about if they're attacked by their own side?


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## Poi E (Jun 29, 2018)

treelover said:


> they see Robinson as some sort of cipher for the old england that has gone, .



Much of the political narrative is built around a yearning for days past. Nothing unique about Robinson's adoption of it.


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## hot air baboon (Jun 29, 2018)

I think the primary force energising this whole thing is a very real & deep-seated anger against "the Establishment" & "the Elite" - I have seen a few - admittedly not very many - non-white faces at some of these demos. To that extent I think you can ( & should ) distinguish "populism" & the support it garners amongst relatively ordinary benign members of the public from "the Far Right" who only represent a sub-set within this "movement"s supporters.


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## treelover (Jun 29, 2018)

Can't see 19th C left/SWP fronted orgs like UAF making that distinction, nuance isn't in their vocabulary.

Yes, this is what i gauge from the FB/social media,, antipathy to elites, the PTB, even increasingly the police, but also visceral hostility to 'paedo's' and now frequently the Left.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2018)

treelover said:


> Can't see 19th C left/SWP fronted orgs like UAF making that distinction, nuance isn't in their vocabulary.
> 
> Yes, this is what i gauge from the FB/social media,, antipathy to elites, the PTB, even increasingly the police, but also visceral hostility to 'paedo's' and now frequently the Left.


there are no 19th c left groups in the country. nor have there been for more than one hundred years. and antipathy to elites and even to the police is nothing new.

like your use of ptb jargon btw, i am sure that everyone you talk to understands that and no one you encounter finds it opaque.


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## Libertad (Jun 29, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> there are no 19th c left groups in the country. nor have there been for more than one hundred years. and antipathy to elites and even to the police is nothing new.
> 
> like your use of ptb jargon btw, i am sure that everyone you talk to understands that and no one you encounter finds it opaque.


 
PTB:
PTB - Wikipedia

It all becomes clear now.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2018)

Libertad said:


> PTB:
> PTB - Wikipedia
> 
> It all becomes clear now.


and it becomes clearer when treelover doesn't mean ANY of those PTBs


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## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2018)

Libertad said:


> PTB:
> PTB - Wikipedia
> 
> It all becomes clear now.


if only ruddy yurts were still with us and we'd lost tl instead.


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## Poi E (Jun 29, 2018)

Still, one thing the English Democratic Football Lads Independence Party surely don't want to bring back from days of yore is the weather. I mean, it's fucking great these days. I saw 1970s UK shows in NZ and fuck me was it grey.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Still, one thing the English Democratic Football Lads Independence Party surely don't want to bring back from days of yore is the weather. I mean, it's fucking great these days. I saw 1970s UK shows in NZ and fuck me was it grey.


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## Poi E (Jun 29, 2018)

Might have been the episodes where Leela was running around in a quarry and not looking miserable.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Might have been the episodes where Leela was running around in a quarry and not looking miserable.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 29, 2018)

treelover said:


> , but also visceral hostility to 'paedo's'



I know you don't do replying so I won't bother asking the question, but I'm pretty cool with the above.  Obviously care needs to be taken to ensure innocent people are not caught up in it all but beyond that, I'm down with visceral hostility to nonces.


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## belboid (Jun 29, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> there are no 19th c left groups in the country.


well, the CPGB believe that Engels' Critique of the Erfurt Programme as still the key Marxist doctrine that must be followed to the letter, so arguably they are


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## cupid_stunt (Jun 29, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Still, one thing the English Democratic Football Lads Independence Party surely don't want to bring back from days of yore is the weather. I mean, it's fucking great these days. I saw 1970s UK shows in NZ and fuck me was it grey.



Only in Watford, TBF...


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## Libertad (Jun 29, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> if only ruddy yurts were still with us and we'd lost tl instead.



Not bassoon but fucktrumpet.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2018)

belboid said:


> well, the CPGB believe that Engels' Critique of the Erfurt Programme as still the key Marxist doctrine that must be followed to the letter, so arguably they are


yeh but they're also keen on the first and second programmes of lenin's russian communists, which drags them into the edwardian era.


http://cpgb.org.uk/assets/files/resources/Party_and_programme.pdf p4


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## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2018)

Libertad said:


> Not bassoon but fucktrumpet.


instead we have a brass fartbucket


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## Libertad (Jun 29, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> instead we have a brass fartbucket



Without a handle.


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## chilango (Jun 29, 2018)

belboid said:


> well, the CPGB believe that Engels' Critique of the Erfurt Programme as still the key Marxist doctrine that must be followed to the letter, so arguably they are


SPGB near as dammit are 19thc.


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## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2018)

chilango said:


> SPGB near as dammit are 19thc.


now they no longer use a mimeograph and have acquired a commodore 64 for their dtp i think we can say they have crawled into the 20th century


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## belboid (Jun 29, 2018)

Socialist Labor Party of the USA go back to 1876, I think they are still using the original lithograph


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## The39thStep (Jun 29, 2018)

treelover said:


> If you go on the TR FB page, there is an increasing amount of people, most over 60, , including many women, who say it will be their first ever march on the 14th, they see Robinson as some sort of cipher for the old england that has gone, it won't be a good look if they are attacked on the day whatever their views. analysing those who are going it also seems to have graduates, inc Cambridge ones, going, as well as East/Central Europeans, it looks like it will be very different than past ones. Though also plenty of WC Tories/Kippers, etc.


When was the last time any of these marches were attacked?


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## The39thStep (Jun 29, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Much of the political narrative is built around a yearning for days past. Nothing unique about Robinson's adoption of it.


I'm yearning for days past


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 29, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> When was the last time any of these marches were attacked?



They haven't been.


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## The39thStep (Jun 29, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> They haven't been.


Exactly.


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## Libertad (Jun 29, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I'm yearning for days past



I'd settle for before the first Enclosure Act.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 29, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Exactly.



Hopefully the counter demo will be larger than before but there'll probably be more than 10 000 TR supporters there.


----------



## newbie (Jun 29, 2018)

Libertad said:


> I'd settle for before the first Enclosure Act.


are you taking the NHS, transport system and internet with you or leaving them behind?


----------



## imposs1904 (Jun 29, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> now they no longer use a mimeograph and have acquired a commodore 64 for their dtp i think we can say they have crawled into the 20th century



We went back to the Gestetner. You can't get the parts for the Commodore 64 these days. I knew we should have gone with the ZX Spectrum.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 29, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Hopefully the counter demo will be larger than before but there'll probably be more than 10 000 TR supporters there.


Physical anti fascism is out of the question most of the people attending aren't fascists . 
I suppose there are pros and cons about counter demos . Even if it was possible to match their numbers something more is needed IMO . Antifascism against TR and associated demos somehow has to be more than just anti it has or someone has to offer an alternative narrative to their recruiting pool.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 30, 2018)

I tell ya, grab that England flag as a symbol and take it back from the football fash.


----------



## Voley (Jun 30, 2018)

There's bellends on Twitter using the same argument that Cloo was talking about to defend Morrissey now. 

Apparently not buying a ticket because you find his views abhorrent is an attack on free speech now.

"Freedom of speech in a coma, I know it's serious" I read earlier.


----------



## Red Sky (Jun 30, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Physical anti fascism is out of the question most of the people attending aren't fascists .
> I suppose there are pros and cons about counter demos . Even if it was possible to match their numbers something more is needed IMO . Antifascism against TR and associated demos somehow has to be more than just anti it has or someone has to offer an alternative narrative to their recruiting pool.



You'd have to figure out what their "recruiting pool" is.  Not all that straightforward.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 30, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> You'd have to figure out what their "recruiting pool" is.  Not all that straightforward.


Well lets have a stab at it.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 30, 2018)

Blokes who drink and watch football. 

Working class: Free Tommy!
Middle class: Well, I mean, he has a point


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 1, 2018)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tommy-Robi...qid=1530364800&sr=8-4&keywords=tommy+robinson


----------



## existentialist (Jul 1, 2018)

Ranbay said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tommy-Robi...qid=1530364800&sr=8-4&keywords=tommy+robinson


It's good that they're doing a blackshirt version. Slightly disappointing not to see one with a huge St George's Cross on it, though. A trick has been missed.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 1, 2018)

This , I think , makes some good points however the conclusion is a bit woolly
Why the Left Must Change: Right-Wing Populism in Context


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 1, 2018)

Ranbay said:


> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tommy-Robi...qid=1530364800&sr=8-4&keywords=tommy+robinson



Hopefully , like with 95% of the 'Antifa' merchandise, it's some scammer who's going to disappear with the money.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 1, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This , I think , makes some good points however the conclusion is a bit woolly
> Why the Left Must Change: Right-Wing Populism in Context



Good article, but a bit bizarre that it doesn't mention Corbyn and the re-orientation of the Labour party. That might be all bollocks but it should have been dealt with.


----------



## treelover (Jul 1, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This , I think , makes some good points however the conclusion is a bit woolly
> Why the Left Must Change: Right-Wing Populism in Context




anyway of D/L that, without signing up to G+?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 1, 2018)

treelover said:


> anyway of D/L that, without signing up to G+?


ctrl+A
ctrl+C
ctrl+V


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## ddraig (Jul 1, 2018)

treelover said:


> anyway of D/L that, without signing up to G+?


or the big DOWNLOAD button top right


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 1, 2018)

ddraig said:


> or the big DOWNLOAD button top right


Not only is it not his day it's not his decade


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## treelover (Jul 1, 2018)

why do you do this, most on here know i have cognitive problems, I have even PMed them to inform them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 1, 2018)

treelover said:


> why do you do this, most on here know i have cognitive problems, I have even PMed them to inform them.


Never said this to me before, regret I don't do telepathy. And ffr if you do want to bring something to my attention pm, quote or tag me.


----------



## treelover (Jul 1, 2018)

Brexit is Labour’s future – Progress | Centre-left Labour politics


Here is a different perspective from Blue Labour advocate Jonathan Rutherford, I will say he was one of the few in the LP to oppose Blair's welfare reforms from day one.

Sorry, its an article on Progress Online.

The long read: Labour can respond to Brexit by leading a popular politics that completes the shift away from Thatcherism | LabourList

another by him, here


----------



## treelover (Jul 1, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This , I think , makes some good points however the conclusion is a bit woolly
> Why the Left Must Change: Right-Wing Populism in Context




is this receiving wider circulation?, I am writing to the authors to see if they will put an abridged version on Medium

btw, if you tried to circulate this at many Momentum meetings, you would be shouted down, etc.


----------



## treelover (Jul 1, 2018)

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="March Against Grooming Gangs in Sunderland - YouTube" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Women's march on Sunderland's streets draws in hundreds


Big march in Sunderland today described by some on the far right as 'girls march against grooming gangs' though different groups have different names for it, see above.

they are using slogans of the radical left/reclaim the night as well, 'whoose streets' our streets', anti-police as well, if the hot weather continues then i think there may be confrontations.

many are young women as well, not far right afaics.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2018)

treelover said:


> is this receiving wider circulation?, I am writing to the authors to see if they will put an abridged version on Medium
> 
> btw, if you tried to circulate this at many Momentum meetings, you would be shouted down, etc.


exactly why i wouldnt touch Momentum with a barge pole


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Good article, but a bit bizarre that it doesn't mention Corbyn and the re-orientation of the Labour party. That might be all bollocks but it should have been dealt with.


True but what do you think their conclusion would have been if they had.Would it have made any difference?


----------



## Poi E (Jul 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This , I think , makes some good points however the conclusion is a bit woolly
> Why the Left Must Change: Right-Wing Populism in Context



"Why have we not seen a new generation of strident leftist politicians, keen to control the brutal excesses of market society..."

Sounds a lot like a liberal call to arms. The "brutal excesses" only?


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> True but what do you think their conclusion would have been if they had.Would it have made any difference?



It just made their analysis/rant seem very off the peg, written any time in the last twenty years.

The Corbynistas are talking capitalism, they are pointing the finger at the banks and neo liberalism. It may be too little too late but it is happening.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 2, 2018)

Poi E said:


> "Why have we not seen a new generation of strident leftist politicians, keen to control the brutal excesses of market society..."
> 
> Sounds a lot like a liberal call to arms. The "brutal excesses" only?


Yeh the unacceptable face of capitalism etc


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> It just made their analysis/rant seem very off the peg, written any time in the last twenty years.
> 
> The Corbynistas are talking capitalism, they are pointing the finger at the banks and neo liberalism. It may be too little too late but it is happening.


But who are they talking to? Its the Tories that are increasing their vote amongst the w/class not Labour.



> According to YouGov, 48% of so-called C2DE voters support the Conservatives, up from 35% in January.
> By contrast, support for Labour among that social group has plummeted from 46% in January to 37% now.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2018)

Poi E said:


> "Why have we not seen a new generation of strident leftist politicians, keen to control the brutal excesses of market society..."
> 
> Sounds a lot like a liberal call to arms. The "brutal excesses" only?



Ok lets change that to  'why havent we seen a new generation of leftist politicians keen to abolish market society...'
Any ideas why we havent?


----------



## chilango (Jul 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Ok lets change that to  'why havent we seen a new generation of leftist politicians keen to abolish market society...'
> Any ideas why we havent?



Have we _ever_ "seen a generation of leftist politicians keen to abolish market society"?


----------



## Poi E (Jul 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Ok lets change that to  'why havent we seen a new generation of leftist politicians keen to abolish market society...'
> Any ideas why we havent?



Because parliamentary democracy is not the way to do it?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Because parliamentary democracy is not the way to do it?


Ok lets change that to 'why havent we seen a new generation of leftist politicians keen to abolish market society but not by a parliamentary route'


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2018)

chilango said:


> Have we _ever_ "seen a generation of leftist politicians keen to abolish market society"?


This started when Poi E was suggesting  that stating  absence of ' a new generation of strident leftist politicians, keen to control the brutal excesses of market society'  was liberal handwringing and that the authors should have been pointing out the absence of something greater. I'm still keen to see if anyone has got anything to say in explaining why we havent got a new generation keen to either control or abolish the excesses of market society.Especially one that comes from a working class perspective .
(edited)


----------



## chilango (Jul 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This started when Poi E was suggesting  that stating  absence of ' a new generation of strident leftist politicians, keen to control the brutal excesses of market society'  was liberal handwringing and that the authors should have been pointing out the absence of something greater. I'm still keen to see if anyone has got anything to say in explaining why we havent got a new generation keen to either control or abolish the excesses of market society.Especially one that comes from a working class perspective .
> (edited)



My point is that we've never had one. Flip the question around.

Why _would_ we get a "generation of etc etc..."?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2018)

chilango said:


> My point is that we've never had one. Flip the question around.
> 
> Why _would_ we get a "generation of etc etc..."?


Agreed. Ok scrap that. Lets get back to the question they asked ?


----------



## chilango (Jul 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Agreed. Ok scrap that. Lets get back to the question they asked ?



I've forgotten what the question was now!


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 2, 2018)

chilango said:


> My point is that we've never had one. Flip the question around.
> 
> Why _would_ we get a "generation of etc etc..."?


It may be true that we haven't had one in this country, but the claim that this wasn't once the motivation of several generations of politicians and activists all across Europe and elsewhere, dragging hundreds of millions of predominently working class people behind them, is absurd. Whether they succeeded in 'abolishing market relations' is another matter, but it was certainly the aim.

But the era of socialist revolution, or whatever you want to call it, ended in 1989, with the idea of 'abolishing market relations' relegated to the margins of political discourse. Once this happened, the rise of the populist right, and the left's primary focus on the more manageable ideas of identity politics was inevitable. However unpalatable, the former clearly appears to have more relevance to many of the forgotten and dispossessed elements of the working class than a left that increasingly appears (or at least is easily presented as such) to represent nothing more than a shrill argument among middle class radicals.

Furthermore, while the age-old struggle between capital and labour goes on relentlessly, the idea of 'abolishing market relations' remains off the agenda for any foreseeable future, and the working class has little to put faith in even when it comes to the basics.


----------



## LDC (Jul 2, 2018)

ddraig said:


> ctrl+A
> ctrl+C
> ctrl+V



In English? Can't see a way of getting it without signing up...?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 2, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> In English? Can't see a way of getting it without signing up...?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 2, 2018)

That takes you to a sign in/register pop-up doesn't it? Give us a sec and i'll upload another copy.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 2, 2018)

Here

And i've pdf-ed it.


----------



## LDC (Jul 2, 2018)

Thank you.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2018)

chilango said:


> I've forgotten what the question was now!


Pay attention at the back


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 2, 2018)

Dunno why but the link just downloaded straight away for me


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 2, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Dunno why but the link just downloaded straight away for me


You may have been logged in, It did for me when i was logged in.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 2, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> In English? Can't see a way of getting it without signing up...?


Ctrl key +A is select all
ctrl key +C is copy
ctrl key +V is paste
nice to be thanked by treelover for helping them out with their query


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 3, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This , I think , makes some good points however the conclusion is a bit woolly
> Why the Left Must Change: Right-Wing Populism in Context



I think this is an excerpt from their book, _The Rise of the Right : English nationalism and the transformation of working class politics_.

Was a very good and sobering read but, like the rest of us, their conclusion in the book is part wishing upon a star and part impractical. The analysis of Brexit and the rise in the Tory vote /collapse in the centre analysis seems spot on though.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 3, 2018)

steeplejack said:


> I think this is an excerpt from their book, _The Rise of the Right : English nationalism and the transformation of working class politics_.
> 
> Was a very good and sobering read but, like the rest of us, their conclusion in the book is part wishing upon a star and part impractical. The analysis of Brexit and the rise in the Tory vote /collapse in the centre analysis seems spot on though.


Yes it's pretty much taken from that which is an excellent read. Welcome back mate


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 4, 2018)

Written by lawyer but readable and full of that lawyer type humour which you either like or don't:
Tommy Robinson's appeal: will his world class legal team get him out of prison? - BarristerBlogger


----------



## Poi E (Jul 4, 2018)

_and one of them, Richard Kovalevsky QC, is indisputably one of the country’s top criminal barristers.
_
Tommy's got deep pockets.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 4, 2018)

Poi E said:


> _and one of them, Richard Kovalevsky QC, is indisputably one of the country’s top criminal barristers.
> _
> Tommy's got deep pockets.


But short arms


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 4, 2018)

Poi E said:


> _and one of them, Richard Kovalevsky QC, is indisputably one of the country’s top criminal barristers.
> _
> Tommy's got deep pockets.


Tommy's dodgy backers got deep pockets. 

Not tommy


----------



## teqniq (Jul 4, 2018)

It says crowdfunding in the blog, but doubtless some of his dodgy backers are indeed loaded.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 4, 2018)

teqniq said:


> It says crowdfunding in the blog, but doubtless some of his dodgy backers are indeed loaded.


He has a lot of support across the board, but the bulk of it comes from some deep dark pockets indeed, IMO. How else did some no mark low grade middle class fascist become so popular, dare I say successful, at all this.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jul 4, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> How else did some no mark low grade middle class fascist become so popular, dare I say successful, at all this.



Yes - he's no Mosley or Powell ...


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 4, 2018)

gentlegreen said:


> Yes - he's no Mosley or Powell ...


No but somewhere he's got a passport that claims otherwise


----------



## Poi E (Jul 5, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Tommy's dodgy backers got deep pockets.
> 
> Not tommy



Yes, 'tis what I meant. The source of these funds should be of great interest; more than just a whip around at a few pubs.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 5, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Written by lawyer but readable and full of that lawyer type humour which you either like or don't:
> Tommy Robinson's appeal: will his world class legal team get him out of prison? - BarristerBlogger



So any money left over from crowdsourcing for his pointless appeal is going to his family.  What a surprise.

The whole theatre show is just a money making exercise, as per


----------



## Poi E (Jul 5, 2018)

It's more than that. It puts poor old Tommy against "the establishment", meaning that any sanction that is applied to him garners him further kudos in the eyes of his supporters, and more coverage. A barrister blogger sneers at him? Well, "they would, wouldn't they". Probably a remainer cunt, you know what I mean?


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 5, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> So any money left over from crowdsourcing for his pointless appeal is going to his family.  What a surprise.
> 
> The whole theatre show is just a money making exercise, as per


Perhaps his world class barristers ought to have advised him not to plead guilty.

To the crime of calling defendants in an ongoing case child abusers on camera.

Again.

Someon's funding him though, not just patreon plebs D). That promo video for his 'day of freedom' was pretty slick, plus the logistics of gathering all the world's Youtube wankers in one place to speak. Like Live Aid but for the voices of aggrieved privilege.


----------



## billbond (Jul 5, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> He has a lot of support across the board, but the bulk of it comes from some deep dark pockets indeed, IMO. How else did some no mark low grade middle class fascist become so popular, dare I say successful, at all this.



"Middle class"   Tommy Robinson ???, Really
Never heard anybody call him that tbh


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 5, 2018)

billbond said:


> "Middle class"   Tommy Robinson ???, Really
> Never heard anybody call him that tbh


You won't, he's cultivated a working class hero image. I don't think it's deserved. From my understanding of his background.

I'm not using middle class perjoratively


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2018)

billbond said:


> "Middle class"   Tommy Robinson ???, Really
> Never heard anybody call him that tbh


no. but where would you put a company director? are they working class?


----------



## Poi E (Jul 5, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> I'm not using middle class perjoratively



It's OK. You're amongst friends.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> no. but where would you put a company director? are they working class?



Has he worked since 2007 as in day a job?
Spends a lot on nice clothing also


----------



## billbond (Jul 5, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> You won't, he's cultivated a working class hero image. I don't think it's deserved. From my understanding of his background.
> 
> I'm not using middle class perjoratively



Yeah tbh i do not know enough about his background so maybe should not comment, i just was a little surprised to hear that term about him.
All i really know about him is his from Luton , was at one time involved in football hooliganism and has seen the inside of a prison cell once or twice in his life for various reasons.
And seems obsessed with one subject.
oh and has a wife and 3-4 kids.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 5, 2018)

billbond said:


> "Middle class"   Tommy Robinson ???, Really
> Never heard anybody call him that tbh



Working class done good. He makes a lot (in his book) of how Kev Carrol is a successful builder etc.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Working class done good. He makes a lot (in his book) of how Kev Carrol is a successful builder etc.



So we have a bloke who can speak to ex-cons, tradesmen and family men. No wonder he has a platform.


----------



## billbond (Jul 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> no. but where would you put a company director? are they working class?



Put like that i suppose  not in many peoples eyes.
I just see him as a bit thuggish and obsessed.
Thinking about it now i suppose he must be making some sort of money out of all this.
I really do not know if he has a job, a business or what.
I do remember reading a while ago that he was found Guilty of Mortgage fraud.
Got me thinking he might somehow be involved in some sort of Property venture.
lots of shall we say "dodgy" characters in that game.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 5, 2018)

tommyrobinson.shop

cash in while you can...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2018)

billbond said:


> Put like that i suppose  not in many peoples eyes.
> I just see him as a bit thuggish and obsessed.
> Thinking about it now i suppose he must be making some sort of money out of all this.
> I really do not know if he has a job, a business or what.
> ...


he's owned his own tanning business and been a company director. wouldn't be surprised if he had some more dubious ventures going on as well.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> he's owned his own tanning business and been a company director. wouldn't be surprised if he had some more dubious ventures going on as well.



A spiv and a chancer.  A type a lot of W/C people admire.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> A spiv and a chancer.  A type a lot of W/C people admire.


without the good humour and charm of private walker


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> A spiv and a chancer.


 
see also farage


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Working class done good. He makes a lot (in his book) of how Kev Carrol is a successful builder etc.



It’s amusing that this ‘voice of the working class’ never actually talks about the working class or working class issues (unless he can put a racial spin on it).


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 5, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> So any money left over from crowdsourcing for his pointless appeal is going to his family.  What a surprise.
> 
> The whole theatre show is just a money making exercise, as per


If it was one of our own I wouldn't see anything inherently wrong with the idea that any money's that are left over go to the family of the prisoner .


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> If it was one of our own I wouldn't see anything inherently wrong with the idea that any money's that are left over go to the family of the prisoner .



That's what makes it such a good ruse.  The family coffers will be full for a while.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 5, 2018)

I think there is some monies around backing him, the demos, sound equipment , video screens . However I don't think that's always been the case . Tanning shops tend to be income instead of a job rather than winning the lottery. Book sales , YouTube monetaryisation , book signing tours have prob been the main source of his income .


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 5, 2018)

I can't wait for the tommy Robinson Race Hate Colouring In Book (forward by Katie Hopkins)


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 5, 2018)

Tanning shops are a well known and used laundering outlet* though - not that there is any indication this is the case here

*money not clothes obvs


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I think there is some monies around backing him, the demos, sound equipment , video screens . However I don't think that's always been the case . Tanning shops tend to be income instead of a job rather than winning the lottery. Book sales , YouTube monetaryisation , book signing tours have prob been the main source of his income .



I looked into YT monetisation through advertising recently and it doesn’t pay that well. Perhaps 80 pence per 1,000 views. So even if you’re lucky enough to get 100,000 views that’s a whopping eighty quid.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I looked into YT monetisation through advertising recently and it doesn’t pay that well. Perhaps 80 pence per 1,000 views. So even if you’re lucky enough to get 100,000 views that’s a whopping eighty quid.


Don't suppose he gets much from book sales or book signing tours either. He might simply be very thrifty.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Don't suppose he gets much from book sales or book signing tours either. He might simply be very thrifty.



I suspect he has financial backing from interested parties.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I suspect he has financial backing from interested parties.


Or an undeclared pharmaceutical business


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Or an undeclared pharmaceutical business



At this stage he probably has to keep his nose clean (pun unintended) as the state would love to trip him up on something like that.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 5, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’s amusing that this ‘voice of the working class’ never actually talks about the working class or working class issues (unless he can put a racial spin on it).



He would say that grooming gangs are a working class issue.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> He would say that grooming gangs are a working class issue.



It is, but he’s only interested in it as there’s a racial angle to it. Does he have anything to say about jobs, healthcare or housing? Again, if he did, it would be about scapegoating Muslims/refugees/immigrants.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 5, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> He would say that grooming gangs are a working class issue.



And he would be right, but that doesn't undermine what Magnus is saying.

Robinson was also very keen on Newsnight (or similar?) on pointing out that most people on the show haven't a clue about what life is like in places like Luton.

I doubt he said "working class areas" specifically but the implication was definitely well-paid media luvvies are on a different planet from the rest of us.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 5, 2018)

There's also the eternal issue of economic vs a very narrow cultural version of what working class is in the UK.

Farage gets to be working class (or at least resonating with it etc etc) by smoking a fag and drinking a pint outside a pub.

(Remember all those hilarious photos of mainstream politicians like Michael Gove looking clueless in pubs?)

Despite being a business owner, Robinson gets to be perceived as working class (or resonating with it etc etc) because he likes football, drinks lager and is racist.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> (Remember all those hilarious photos of mainstream politicians like Michael Gove looking clueless in pubs?)



William Hague wearing a sports cap.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 5, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> There's also the eternal issue of economic vs a very narrow cultural version of what working class is in the UK.
> 
> Farage gets to be working class (or at least resonating with it etc etc) by smoking a fag and drinking a pint outside a pub.
> 
> ...


Farage has an image of landed gentry: tweed jackets and warm beer. That resonates well with little Englanders, of all classes.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 5, 2018)

ska invita said:


> Farage has an image of landed gentry: tweed jackets and warm beer. That resonates well with little Englanders, of all classes.



Fair point - maybe it's about "authenticity" really.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2018)

It’s because parts of the WC had issues around the EU/Immigration and UKIP were the only ones seen to be wanting to address it. I doubt he would otherwise have any appeal.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 5, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Fair point - maybe it's about "authenticity" really.


I'd use Traditionalism, rather than authenticity...as well as footballs, spitfires and minis, that traditional idyll includes aristocrats (particularly in royal family mode) and picture box countryside imagery...and no foreigners of course. farage ticks a lot of those boxes.


----------



## ska invita (Jul 5, 2018)

...I imagine some of the more advanced little Englanders might be put off by the Frenchness and non AngloSaxonness of his name, but you can't square every circle in a bullshit ideology


----------



## chilango (Jul 5, 2018)

Tbh I'd go for a pint with Nige, I wouldn't with Corbs.


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 5, 2018)

Alex Jones claimed he was going to fund TR with $20k when he went "independent" from Rebel Media to get recording kit etc - however what Jones says & actual reality do seem to be somewhat divergent


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 5, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> Alex Jones claimed he was going to fund TR with $20k when he went "independent" from Rebel Media to get recording kit etc - however what Jones says & actual reality do seem to be somewhat divergent


That money probably had to go to his ex wife


----------



## Poi E (Jul 6, 2018)

chilango said:


> Tbh I'd go for a pint with Nige, I wouldn't with Corbs.



I would too, armed with ricin.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 6, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I looked into YT monetisation through advertising recently and it doesn’t pay that well. Perhaps 80 pence per 1,000 views. So even if you’re lucky enough to get 100,000 views that’s a whopping eighty quid.


That's interesting . I had been meaning to find out what he and others could have earned from YouTube. I think it was last year that Paul Joseph Watson did a video complaining about the fact that he had been demonitised by you tube and moaning about all the time he'd spent doing videos .
Aside from devoted political activism there must be something else that can explain the amount of YouTube videos and dedicated channels by people like Robinson, Watson, Red Pill Phil, Make Britain Great Again etc and alt right 'journalists ' ?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 6, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’s because parts of the WC had issues around the EU/Immigration and UKIP were the only ones seen to be wanting to address it. I doubt he would otherwise have any appeal.


Yup nothing to do with his choice of fashion.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 6, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> That's interesting . I had been meaning to find out what he and others could have earned from YouTube. I think it was last year that Paul Joseph Watson did a video complaining about the fact that he had been demonitised by you tube and moaning about all the time he'd spent doing videos .
> Aside from devoted political activism there must be something else that can explain the amount of YouTube videos and dedicated channels by people like Robinson, Watson, Red Pill Phil, Make Britain Great Again etc and alt right 'journalists ' ?


Wow, I finally have something in common with mapwanker because I've often complained about all the time he spends making videos too 

People can support TR through bitcoin, according to his toe curling website, which endeavours to make him look like a shiny folk hero.

He probably has a patreon as well. I'm sure if he does he could easily make as much as Dave Rubin or Jordan B Peterson


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 6, 2018)

_...once asked Tommy Robinson why he didn’t stop playing the game of inciting anti-Muslim bigotry and find a proper job. ‘Fine,’ came the reply ‘if you can tell me where else I can make £4,000 a month.’ Denied traditional employment, Robinson turned to the world’s biggest bank: the Web.

How much he raised through YouTube advertising and donations from his followers no one knows, but he was confident enough to launch a crowdfunding appeal for £100,000 to equip a studio from where he could become an online broadcaster. The tendency of the Web to push people to extremes in search of an audience has been well covered; Robinson has now been jailed for contempt of court after filming himself outside a trial. To monetise your politics, you must keep your market in a profitable state of outrage by posing as a lone voice exposing the truths the establishment want to hide...

Tommy Robinson and the rise of the new extremists - Nick Cohen_

Tommy Robinson and the rise of the new extremists | Coffee House


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 6, 2018)

Yeah he’ll probably get a bit from donations; the very first page on his website before you even get to any content is asking for money, plus the obligatory tin rattle at the end of the videos. He couldn’t do it without your money

Plus the whole circus around his arrest and imprisonment has probably encouraged plenty to dig deep for him.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 6, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yeah he’ll probably get a bit from donations; the very first page on his website before you even get to any content is asking for money, plus the obligatory tin rattle at the end of the videos. He couldn’t do it without your money
> 
> Plus the whole circus around his arrest and imprisonment has probably encouraged plenty to dig deep for him.



Just like Cound Dankula and his appeal fund - for being a racist prick.

No doubt people will think they are funding a legitimate defence, despite already having plead guilty.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 6, 2018)

There's an article waiting to be written on business / income models of  the alt right activists.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 6, 2018)

Dealing coke would probably be a good place to start.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 6, 2018)

teqniq said:


> Dealing coke would probably be a good place to start.


Not sure that's viable or long term proposition  for a high profile political activist .


----------



## teqniq (Jul 6, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Not sure that's viable or long term proposition  for a high profile political activist .


Robinson has form for it but I wasn't necessarily thinking of him.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 6, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> There's an article waiting to be written on business / income models of  the alt right activists.



Pin Badges init, everyone loves em, make loads.

then hoodies and facemasks etc


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 6, 2018)

Yes , the Make Britain Great lot produce and make baseball caps and tshirts . However there are quite a lot of traders who aren't necessarily aligned politically but who just cash in on what ever cause it is .


----------



## pesh (Jul 6, 2018)




----------



## LDC (Jul 6, 2018)

In Leeds I think the alteration seems to be a merging of the earlier Yorkshire Patriots march and the later Free Tommy demo into a joint march at the earlier time. Will report back here after the event hopefully.

Police to close roads as Free Tommy Robinson march will go ahead


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 6, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> In Leeds I think the alteration seems to be a merging of the earlier Yorkshire Patriots march and the later Free Tommy demo into a joint march at the earlier time. Will report back here after the event hopefully.
> 
> Police to close roads as Free Tommy Robinson march will go ahead



yeah - looks like they are still going to try and march tomorrow. Counter demo meets outside the railway station, by park plaza hotel at 12.30pm. If you are in or about the leeds area - come on over. 
Im guessing it will just be the hardcore fash and their will be a lot of police.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 6, 2018)




----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 7, 2018)

So - about 40 fash turned up in leeds. usual crowd of fuckwits. The counter trade union/labour rally of pointlessness assemelbe half a mile away and looked to be a couple of thousand strong.
About 100+ antifa assembled opposite the tommy botherers. Cops allowed them to march. Antifa managed to dodge the police lines and block their route on vicar lane. About an hour's stand off then the cops re-routed the fash march whilst anti-fa were kettled. The Stand up to racism crowd could have quite easily have blocked the re-routed march - but hey ho. A lot of interest from passers by and generally sympathetic to the counter demo. Poor turnout for them, good numbers for us - which was pleasing.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 7, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> The Stand up to racism crowd could have quite easily have blocked the re-routed march - but hey ho.


why do you think they didn't?


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> There's an article waiting to be written on business / income models of  the alt right activists.



https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/white-male-victimhood-gammon-incel-jordan-peterson-mens-right


----------



## LDC (Jul 7, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> So - about 40 fash turned up in leeds. usual crowd of fuckwits. The counter trade union/labour rally of pointlessness assemelbe half a mile away and looked to be a couple of thousand strong.
> About 100+ antifa assembled opposite the tommy botherers. Cops allowed them to march. Antifa managed to dodge the police lines and block their route on vicar lane. About an hour's stand off then the cops re-routed the fash march whilst anti-fa were kettled. The Stand up to racism crowd could have quite easily have blocked the re-routed march - but hey ho. A lot of interest from passers by and generally sympathetic to the counter demo. Poor turnout for them, good numbers for us - which was pleasing.



Yeah, I agree although I made the numbers a bit higher on both sides, maybe 100 or so on theirs, 2-300 at the high point on ours.

Pleased that they seem to be on a losing streak in Leeds. They're totally failing to capture any new interest at all, it's the leftovers of the EDL and long term far right, with maybe a handful or two of randoms.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 7, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/white-male-victimhood-gammon-incel-jordan-peterson-mens-right


says page not found


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 7, 2018)




----------



## Red Sky (Jul 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> says page not found



How white male victimhood got monetised


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 7, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


>



watched that the otherday .shite


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> watched that the otherday .shite



The report itself or the FLA?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 7, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> The report itself or the FLA?


The report . Very shallow no real insight . The FLA aren't going anywhere as the FLA but the issues aren't going away either


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 7, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Yeah, I agree although I made the numbers a bit higher on both sides, maybe 100 or so on theirs, 2-300 at the high point on ours.
> 
> Pleased that they seem to be on a losing streak in Leeds. They're totally failing to capture any new interest at all, it's the leftovers of the EDL and long term far right, with maybe a handful or two of randoms.



yep - definitely the same old faces. They had their tails up a month ago - but the pitiful turnout 2 weeks ago and now this has got to demoralise them - plus the big turn out to oppose them. London next weekend might be a different story - are their anti-trump protests at the same time?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> The report . Very shallow no real insight . The FLA aren't going anywhere as the FLA but the issues aren't going away either



Really?  What more insight do you need into these kind of people?  I know some in real life.  They can be decent enough in some ways, but their concerns are hijacked by the tabloids and right wing figureheads (like TR) and you end up with what you see in the report.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 7, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Really?  What more insight do you need into these kind of people?  I know some in real life.  They can be decent enough in some ways, but their concerns are hijacked by the tabloids and right wing figureheads (like TR) and you end up with what you see in the report.


I'm suppose I'm looking for context and an examination of driving forces. What's the context of those that you know in real life? I know a few sympathetic to TR who are generally ok and will at least discuss the issues .


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 7, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Really?  What more insight do you need into these kind of people?  I know some in real life.  They can be decent enough in some ways, but their concerns are hijacked by the tabloids and right wing figureheads (like TR) and you end up with what you see in the report.



Concerns about children being abused by gangs is surprising, isn’t it?


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> The report . Very shallow no real insight . The FLA aren't going anywhere as the FLA but the issues aren't going away either


I thought the FLA ppl were given a fair hearing. 

They aired their views and exposed their inchoate worldview. 

I don't think you should expect too much from daytime BBC, but I think to say it's very shallow is a bit harsh


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 7, 2018)

It’s almost like left inaction leaves those doing anything being far right.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 7, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Concerns about children being abused by gangs is surprising, isn’t it?



It's not just muslims that abuse kids, you know, and if TR and the FLA were really concerned about bringing perps to justice, they wouldn't jeopardise trials...


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 7, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’s almost like left inaction leaves those doing anything being far right.


Why not just come out and make your point rather than this silly innuendo?


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 7, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> It's not just muslims that abuse kids, you know, and if TR and the FLA were really concerned about bringing perps to justice, they wouldn't jeopardise trials...


The Rochdale trials were also put into jeopardy by far right stupidity


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 7, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Why not just come out and make your point rather than this silly innuendo?



There’s no innuendo, it’s like you’re surprised that people are upset about grooming gangs and getting bombed. How are you going to counter it?


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 7, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> There’s no innuendo, it’s like you’re surprised that people are upset about grooming gangs and getting bombed. How are you going to counter it?


Why do you think I'm surprised? I have no indication that was my reaction at all. 

I understand that they think Britain is assailed by muslim child rapists and suicide bombers. I also understand, as I said by the word inchoate, that they are grossly misguided.

What can we do about it? Well at first blush my feeling is the answers have to come from the working class. Political alienation is a huge problem so expecting our lords and masters to have any answers, or even be listened to if they offer correct analysis, is a mistake because the FLA types will just regard that as being patronised further. 

Unfortuantely this is compounded by the social media parasites that profit of all this; such as the likes of Sargon, Stefan Molynue or Lauren Southern - all of whom were part or party to TR's big free speech protest.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 7, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> yep - definitely the same old faces. They had their tails up a month ago - but the pitiful turnout 2 weeks ago and now this has got to demoralise them - plus the big turn out to oppose them. London next weekend might be a different story - are their anti-trump protests at the same time?



Hopefully Leeds turns out to be the Columbia game! 


Stop Trump on July 13th – Stop Tommy on the 14th!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 8, 2018)

......


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 8, 2018)

Leeds Anti Fascist Network blocking the Yorkshire Patriots march in leeds - Sat 7th July


----------



## LDC (Jul 8, 2018)

"That's not a banner. THAT'S a banner."


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 10, 2018)

Three part analysis of the Tommy Robinson Phenomenon:

Know your enemy: the Tommy Robinson movement (part 1)

Some valid insights, but missing a vital component of any "know your enemy" approach - how to use that knowledge to defeat them.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 10, 2018)

19force8 said:


> Three part analysis of the Tommy Robinson Phenomenon:
> 
> Know your enemy: the Tommy Robinson movement (part 1)
> 
> Some valid insights, but missing a vital component of any "know your enemy" approach - how to use that knowledge to defeat them.


I won't say that he can't be defeated, obviously, but I think we are so far gone in this post factual period that any time you present counter factual arguments or evidence, people like this retreat into a sense of perceived oppression and argument is shut down. I personally don't know how to deal with that.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 10, 2018)

19force8 said:


> Three part analysis of the Tommy Robinson Phenomenon:
> 
> Know your enemy: the Tommy Robinson movement (part 1)
> 
> Some valid insights, but missing a vital component of any "know your enemy" approach - how to use that knowledge to defeat them.



The neck shot is an oldie but a goodie.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 10, 2018)

Can’t say I’m surprised by this, if true:

Pro-Israel think tank funds Tommy Robinson’s legal costs


----------



## bemused (Jul 10, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Can’t say I’m surprised by this, if true:
> 
> Pro-Israel think tank funds Tommy Robinson’s legal costs



Isn't he going to be out before any appeal happens?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 10, 2018)

bemused said:


> Isn't he going to be out before any appeal happens?



No idea. Possibly.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 10, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Can’t say I’m surprised by this, if true:
> 
> Pro-Israel think tank funds Tommy Robinson’s legal costs


This does not surprise me.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 10, 2018)

teqniq said:


> This does not surprise me.



Me neither.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 10, 2018)

But he plead guilty? How are there any legal costs at this point? 

What are they paying for?

And I'm not surprised either


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> But he plead guilty? How are there any legal costs at this point?
> 
> What are they paying for?
> 
> And I'm not surprised either


Apparently, he's appealing. Presumably, against the sentence, but I suspect it's basically just posturing.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 10, 2018)

he is very appealing


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 14, 2018)

Jesus

Trump's ambassador lobbied Britain on behalf of jailed right-wing...


----------



## treefrog (Jul 14, 2018)

More pro-Tommy protests happening in Auckland.  This article is quite amusing (in places) though 

What did the Free Speech protestors actually have to say?


----------



## Poi E (Jul 14, 2018)

Before I even clicked I thought it would be filled with the libertarian cunts whose beliefs fucked NZ for many. And it is.


----------



## treefrog (Jul 14, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Before I even clicked I thought it would be filled with the libertarian cunts whose beliefs fucked NZ for many. And it is.



ACT party can get in the bin tbh. Horrible dickheads.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 14, 2018)

Their ex-leader Jamie Whyte is Director of Research at the UK free market loony Institute for Economic Affairs. They stick together, this lot.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2018)

The wonders of Microsoft translate on Twitter


> *Mascha de Jong*‏ @*maschadejong* 27m27 minutes ago
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## treefrog (Jul 14, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Their ex-leader Jamie Whyte is Director of Research at the UK free market loony Institute for Economic Affairs. They stick together, this lot.


So that's where he went! I wondered why I hadn't seen the odious little shitbag's reckons touted around here.


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2018)

Nothing in the Guardian, BBC, the thing is, if these people don't get the coverage they think they deserve, they will become more radical in order to get their message out.


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2018)

Steve Hedley attacked, they must have known who he was.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 14, 2018)

Apparently Steve Hedley Asst Gen Sec of the RMT got attacked


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2018)




----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2018)

Looks like the usual scuffles, except for Hedley who looks like he was targeted.


----------



## andysays (Jul 14, 2018)

treelover said:


> Steve Hedley attacked, they must have known who he was.





treelover said:


> Looks like the usual scuffles, except for Hedley who looks like he was targeted.



How can you possibly know that?


----------



## 2hats (Jul 14, 2018)

There have been short (minute or two) items on the BBC news channel, Sky News and Channel 4 news in the last hour or so.


----------



## Geri (Jul 14, 2018)

I heard they attacked the pub he was in.


----------



## Geri (Jul 14, 2018)

Union leader attacked after counter-protest to Trump and Robinson rally


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2018)

andysays said:


> How can you possibly know that?






> Witnesses said a mob ambushed two men at the Westminster Arms pub in central London on Sunday afternoon in a targeted attack.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 14, 2018)

Union leader attacked by working class...seems utterly wrong headed to me. This is what the modern rhetoric of fascism has done to people. Meanwhile their hero Trump and of course Robinson won't be championing workers rights.


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2018)

Time for what is left of the left to reorient themselves back to working class politics, though of course that is what the RMT do, no wonder they were targeted.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 14, 2018)

treelover said:


> Time for what is left of the left to reorient themselves back to working class politics, though of course that is what the RMT do, no wonder they were targeted.


wholeheartedly agree


----------



## smokedout (Jul 14, 2018)

Geri said:


> Union leader attacked after counter-protest to Trump and Robinson rally



I saw this, it was a pretty vicious atttack, not sure Steve Hedlley was targeted specifically, but it's hard to say.  Came round the corner, saw a mob of blokes charge at the pub lobbing bottles and chairs,a bunch of people fought back but it was nasty, quite a few injuries on both sides.  It was hard to know which side was which until it was over and at first I thought it was fash on fash, didn;t last long but was pretty full on.

What was depressing on going back to Pariament Square and news of this was starting to filter out is that the main anti-fascist block chose that moment to march away from the square, pointlessly heading towards Victoria Station where the march dispersed.  On heading back it appeared a couple of hundred far right had taken  Trafalgar Square, holding up 'rapeugee' banners and chanting whose streets our streets, whilst the square and the nearest pub (chandos) was full of alt right types and Trump supporters completely unopposed and declaring victory.  So not really a great day for anti-fascism, a fucking embarrassment in fact given the number were pretty even.


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2018)

Is that the first time the Chandos has been held by the far right.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 14, 2018)

smokedout said:


> I saw this, it was a pretty vicious atttack, not sure Steve Hedlley was targeted specifically, but it's hard to say.  Came round the corner, saw a mob of blokes charge at the pub lobbing bottles and chairs,a bunch of people fought back but it was nasty, quite a few injuries on both sides.  It was hard to know which side was which until it was over and at first I thought it was fash on fash, didn;t last long but was pretty full on.
> 
> What was depressing on going back to Pariament Square and news of this was starting to filter out is that the main anti-fascist block chose that moment to march away from the square, pointlessly heading towards Victoria Station where the march dispersed.  On heading back it appeared a couple of hundred far right had taken  Trafalgar Square, holding up 'rapeugee' banners and *chanting whose streets our streets*, whilst the square and the nearest pub (chandos) was full of alt right types and Trump supporters completely unopposed and declaring victory.  So not really a great day for anti-fascism, a fucking embarrassment in fact given the number were pretty even.




So now the fascists are trying to claim antifa slogans?


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2018)

i mentioned that with other far right protests


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2018)

> oday 40 Far Right scum attacked a group of RMT including retired members after their #freetommy demo. They failed to get into the pub and got back twice what they gave despite the advantage of surprise and numbers. Furthermore, by demonstrating clearly their anti worker instinct they have scored a huge own goal: already hugely down in numbers on their last demo, if they dare to pull this shit again they will face a rejuvenated and enraged opposition.
> 
> We send a salute to Assistant General Secretary Steve Hedley who called it from the start in his speech about the true agenda of the opposition - and then stood by his words putting up frontline resistance. We urge all to follow his example.



Red |London FB, pensioners attacked as well.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2018)

treelover said:


> Is that the first time the Chandos has been held by the far right.


Who knows?


Toast Rider said:


> So now the fascists are trying to claim antifa slogans?


when they do nick an antifa slogan I'll be sure to let you know


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> So now the fascists are trying to claim antifa slogans?



I don't care about slogans but if there are people targeting w/c organisers that is cause for grave concern.


----------



## Geri (Jul 14, 2018)

smokedout said:


> I saw this, it was a pretty vicious atttack, not sure Steve Hedlley was targeted specifically, but it's hard to say.  Came round the corner, saw a mob of blokes charge at the pub lobbing bottles and chairs,a bunch of people fought back but it was nasty, quite a few injuries on both sides.  It was hard to know which side was which until it was over and at first I thought it was fash on fash, didn;t last long but was pretty full on.


 
And where were the police? In Bristol the two sides can never get anywhere near each other.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 14, 2018)

Geri said:


> And where were the police? In Bristol the two sides can never get anywhere near each other.




Haha.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 14, 2018)

treelover said:


> Red |London FB, pensioners attacked as well.



Probably by pensioners judging by the state of the Free Tommy mob.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 14, 2018)

smokedout said:


> I saw this, it was a pretty vicious atttack, not sure Steve Hedlley was targeted specifically, but it's hard to say.  Came round the corner, saw a mob of blokes charge at the pub lobbing bottles and chairs,a bunch of people fought back but it was nasty, quite a few injuries on both sides.  It was hard to know which side was which until it was over and at first I thought it was fash on fash, didn;t last long but was pretty full on.
> 
> What was depressing on going back to Pariament Square and news of this was starting to filter out is that the main anti-fascist block chose that moment to march away from the square, pointlessly heading towards Victoria Station where the march dispersed.  On heading back it appeared a couple of hundred far right had taken  Trafalgar Square, holding up 'rapeugee' banners and chanting whose streets our streets, whilst the square and the nearest pub (chandos) was full of alt right types and Trump supporters completely unopposed and declaring victory.  So not really a great day for anti-fascism, a fucking embarrassment in fact given the number were pretty even.



Anti fascists were never going to make it to Trafalgar Square in numbers. Not with the huge police presence. No doubt if they'd tried and got kettled and nicked the usual suspects would be on here talking about "an embarassment to anti fascism".


----------



## smokedout (Jul 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Anti fascists were never going to make it to Trafalgar Square in numbers. Not with the huge police presence. No doubt if they'd tried and got kettled and nicked the usual suspects would be on here talking about "an embarassment to anti fascism".



So marching away from the fascists to a remote part of town, despite reports of violent attacks, and jumping on the train to go home was the best strategy then?


----------



## dessiato (Jul 14, 2018)

I was in Trafalgar square when they first arrived. I went round telling people to keep away from the fascists. I almost put on my anti-Trump vest, but felt that discretion was a better part of valour.


----------



## sealion (Jul 14, 2018)

Bits going off at the back of Victoria station earlier this evening, looked like small football mobs on the attack. TSG running about screaming and waving sticks at all and sundry.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 14, 2018)

smokedout said:


> So marching away from the fascists to a remote part of town, despite reports of violent attacks, and jumping on the train to go home was the best strategy then?



The fight at the pub was over before anyone moved off. Swamped by cops.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 14, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't care about slogans but if there are people targeting w/c organisers that is cause for grave concern.


Obviously that is more important, but I stated this because it tells us something about the attitude of these people. They have come to believe antifa are the 'real' tyrants, the enemies of free speech, that they are the real thugs. It's become poisonously inverted.


----------



## smokedout (Jul 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> The fight at the pub was over before anyone moved off. Swamped by cops.



Good job really ain't it, given that our lot dispersed meaning the only people left preventing an additional attack were old bill.  Perhaps you didn't see the jublilence on the Square after both anti-fascists and police both largely left  them to it.  If fascists atacking drinkers in pubs, then being left unopposed to cheer about it in the heart of london whilst waving banners calling refugees rapists, despite an impressively large intial anti-fascist presence, isnt a fucking embarrassment then what is?


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 14, 2018)

smokedout said:


> Good job really ain't it, given that our lot dispersed meaning the only people left preventing an additional attack were old bill.  Perhaps you didn't see the jublilence on the Square after both anti-fascists and police both largely left  them to it.  If fascists atacking drinkers in pubs, then being left unopposed to cheer about it in the heart of london whilst waving banners calling refugees rapists, despite an impressively large intial anti-fascist presence, isnt a fucking embarrassment then what is?



What's your remedy and what are you going to do about it?


----------



## smokedout (Jul 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> What's your remedy and what are you going to do about it?



Not go home just because some trot dickhead on a stage tells me its all over.


----------



## treelover (Jul 14, 2018)

package on sky news, anti-fa looked mostly european from what i could see.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2018)

treelover said:


> package on sky news, anti-fa looked mostly european from what i could see.


Yeh that's really important, I'm glad you brought that up


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 14, 2018)

smokedout said:


> Not go home just because some trot dickhead on a stage tells me its all over.



An attempt by either side to get into the others designated area in numbers would have been met with mass arrest . So they came south in a small group  and despite managing to hit Steve Hedley came off worse. The result would have been similar if small groups of anti fascists had gone north.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 14, 2018)

treelover said:


> package on sky news, anti-fa looked mostly european from what i could see.



As opposed to African or Amerindian?


----------



## smokedout (Jul 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> An attempt by either side to get into the others designated area in numbers would have been met with mass arrest . So they came south in a small group  and despite managing to hit Steve Hedley came off worse. The result would have been similar if small groups of anti fascists had gone north.



And yet they were the ones holding the streets, and our fucking pub, and having a big party at the end of it.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 14, 2018)

smokedout said:


> And yet they were the ones holding the streets, and our fucking pub, and having a big party at the end of it.



Is it your pub? A profitable afternoon then.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2018)

The Chandos isn't a left pub, it's a pub where socialists and anarchists like to drink after a demo. The dolphin by red lion sq, every October loads of anarchists liked to drink there the day of the book fair. But it wasn't an anarchist pub, it's a cop pub. See things for what they are not what you want them to be.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 14, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> The Chandos isn't a left pub, it's a pub where socialists and anarchists like to drink after a demo. The dolphin by red lion sq, every October loads of anarchists liked to drink there the day of the book fair. But it wasn't an anarchist pub, it's a cop pub. See things for what they are not what you want them to be.



Some of ours were in the Red Lion, thanks to the MET police on our side of the No Mans Land.  That's definitely one of their pubs.


----------



## smokedout (Jul 14, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> The Chandos isn't a left pub, it's a pub where socialists and anarchists like to drink after a demo. The dolphin by red lion sq, every October loads of anarchists liked to drink there the day of the book fair. But it wasn't an anarchist pub, it's a cop pub. See things for what they are not what you want them to be.



Fair enough, I don't really care about the pub except it was a shock to see both the square and the Chandos pretty much taken over.  I care more aboout the fact that they seem to have the initiative and the stamina to mount attacks, resist the old bill, take space and hold it unopposed, without any trace of opposition after about teatime.  If this is something anti-fascists think they can call a victory then fuck help us if this movement takes off in the way it has the potential to.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Some of ours were in the Red Lion, thanks to the MET police on our side of the No Mans Land.  That's definitely one of their pubs.


Yeh and with the prices there let them have it say i


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 14, 2018)

smokedout said:


> Fair enough, I don't really care about the pub except it was a shock to see both the square and the Chandos pretty much taken over.  I care more aboout the fact that they seem to have the initiative and the stamina to mount attacks, resist the old bill, take space and hold it unopposed, without any trace of opposition after about teatime.  If this is something anti-fascists think they can call a victory then fuck help us if this movement takes off in the way it has the potential to.



Then the answer is to get involved and get organising, either in or out of an existing organisation.

Maybe anti fascists could have been bolder today. Last time though it's estimated that there were 10,000 fash.  Running headlong into a situation  where you're outnumbered in an open space isn't going to win any prizes. 

Good to see that some perhaps more traditional leftists are realising the threat this movement represents.  This movement was born with the EDL, which many on here dismissed as an irrelevance.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 14, 2018)

treelover said:


> package on sky news, anti-fa looked mostly european from what i could see.



 Pilchard


----------



## smokedout (Jul 14, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Then the answer is to get involved and get organising, either in or out of an existing organisation.
> 
> Maybe anti fascists could have been bolder today. Last time though it's estimated that there were 10,000 fash.  Running headlong into a situation  where you're outnumbered in an open space isn't going to win any prizes.
> 
> Good to see that some perhaps more traditional leftists are realising the threat this movement represents.  This movement was born with the EDL, which many on here dismissed as an irrelevance.



Unlike the EDL though this isn't just the usual suspects plus a bunch of up for it casuals, although that's what the more vocal crowd around Nelson's Column looked like.  But around the square and in the pub there were lots of older eccentric ukip types, young smartly dressed generation identity types and 4chan type geeks.  The constituency seems to have broadened considerably, which might not do them much good in the long run, it remains to be seen, but they looked very different to the traditional far right crowd.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 15, 2018)

smokedout said:


> Unlike the EDL though this isn't just the usual suspects plus a bunch of up for it casuals, although that's what the more vocal crowd around Nelson's Column looked like.  But around the square and in the pub there were lots of older eccentric ukip types, young smartly dressed generation identity types and 4chan type geeks.  The constituency seems to have broadened considerably, which might not do them much good in the long run, it remains to be seen, but they looked very different to the traditional far right crowd.


As far as I understand it, though, there were actually two different demonstrations going on. The post-EDL lot basically latched onto a separate pro-Trump demo. I would guess the kippers, 4-channers etc were part of that.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

smokedout said:


> Unlike the EDL though this isn't just the usual suspects plus a bunch of up for it casuals, although that's what the more vocal crowd around Nelson's Column looked like.  But around the square and in the pub there were lots of older eccentric ukip types, young smartly dressed generation identity types and 4chan type geeks.  The constituency seems to have broadened considerably, which might not do them much good in the long run, it remains to be seen, but they looked very different to the traditional far right crowd.



The EDL wasn't "The usual suspects" . Some neo Nazi types may have joined in later but it sprang into being very quickly without their involvement .

The point being that some warned of the dangers of an ultra nationalist street movement being able to flourish without serious opposition while others who perhaps should have known better dismissed the endeavour as "Flag chasing".


----------



## Poi E (Jul 15, 2018)

smokedout said:


> Unlike the EDL though this isn't just the usual suspects plus a bunch of up for it casuals, although that's what the more vocal crowd around Nelson's Column looked like.  But around the square and in the pub there were lots of older eccentric ukip types, young smartly dressed generation identity types and 4chan type geeks.  The constituency seems to have broadened considerably, which might not do them much good in the long run, it remains to be seen, but they looked very different to the traditional far right crowd.



Ah, the middle classes. Who would have thought it? "They really should know better".


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jul 15, 2018)

Facebook is telling me that police response was to nick Steve Hedley and a woman being treated in hospital for broken ribs after being hit by a chair by the fash.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

crossthebreeze said:


> Facebook is telling me that police response was to nick Steve Hedley and a woman being treated in hospital for broken ribs after being hit by a chair by the fash.



That would explain the "victim" narrative being pushed.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 15, 2018)




----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 15, 2018)

Lol i saw one person with a placard outside Leeds crown court earlier this week. Pretty shit show.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 15, 2018)

Bit of a thug himself, lest we forget

Statement on the Morning Star’s suppression of domestic violence allegations | IWW


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 15, 2018)

smokedout said:


> Unlike the EDL though this isn't just the usual suspects plus a bunch of up for it casuals, although that's what the more vocal crowd around Nelson's Column looked like.  But around the square and in the pub there were lots of older eccentric ukip types, young smartly dressed generation identity types and 4chan type geeks.  The constituency seems to have broadened considerably, which might not do them much good in the long run, it remains to be seen, but they looked very different to the traditional far right crowd.


Yup this is the emerging audience a curious blend of alt right proTrump libertarian types being courted by Gen Id and UKIP suits and a more w/class TR brigade with some hard core fash.I'm not sure the latter can turn the former into a violent street movement tbh.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 15, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Bit of a thug himself, lest we forget
> 
> Statement on the Morning Star’s suppression of domestic violence allegations | IWW


I've seen a few tweets from supposed supporters of his expartner pretty much applauding the fash for beating him up on the supposed grounds of what comes around comes around. Disgusting and unforgivable sectarianism .Funnily enough Pie and Mash tweeted exactly the same thing.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Disgusting and unforgivable sectarianism.



Not that you'd want anything to do with that.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 15, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> That would explain the "victim" narrative being pushed.



By who? SH interview on TV makes clear that their were ‘casualties on both sides’ and if anything it seem like the fash came second.


----------



## treelover (Jul 15, 2018)

what is TB?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Jul 15, 2018)

treelover said:


> what is TB?



TV. The interview SH gave to ITV


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2018)

treelover said:


> what is TB?


A virulent disease of the lungs


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 15, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Not that you'd want anything to do with that.


Whats that supposed to mean?


----------



## treelover (Jul 15, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> A virulent disease of the lungs



In this context, please.


----------



## andysays (Jul 15, 2018)

Smokeandsteam said:


> By who? SH interview on TV makes clear that their were ‘casualties on both sides’ and if anything it seem like the fash came second.



Haven't watched that, but I imagine you mean he *claims* there were casualties on both side etc. The only pictures are of SH himself having got a bloody nose.

The thing is that he was one of the speakers on the Stand Up to Racism float (I didn't realise this at the time, but have since pieced it together), and so is/was presumably approved by/working with them.

It was SUTR who 'announced' that things were over and that everyone should go home, marching together to St James Park station 'for everyone's safety', but SH ended up in a pub on the way and got attacked.

And Hope Not Hate appear to have been first to tweet about this, and it was then picked up by other media, with the result that the 'story' is now 'TU leader and anti-fascist gets beaten up'.

That, more than anything, will encourage TR supporters and other fash.

I've read things on here about how SUTR's influence has undermined anti-fascist activity; yesterday was the first time I saw it for myself. It's a shame that the efforts of so many have been undermined by so-called leaders...


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Whats that supposed to mean?



If you live in a grass house, don't get stoned.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

Smokeandsteam said:


> By who? SH interview on TV makes clear that their were ‘casualties on both sides’ and if anything it seem like the fash came second.



Kind of. He's caught between two stools a bit.


----------



## agricola (Jul 15, 2018)




----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 15, 2018)

Why give the cunt a platform?


----------



## teqniq (Jul 15, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Why give the cunt a platform?


Why indeed? But there seems to be a bit of a pattern going on here. Farage regularly on the BBC, Sebastian Gorka was on channel 4 in relation to Trump's visit. Why indeed give these arseholes any airtime at all?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 15, 2018)

teqniq said:


> Why indeed? But there seems to be a bit of a pattern going on here. Farage regularly on the BBC, Sebastian Gorka was on channel 4 in relation to Trump's visit. Why indeed give these arseholes any airtime at all?



It's not just like they go away if you don't.  Even worse they'll claim victimhood.  Better to get them out in the open and debate them.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 15, 2018)

.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 15, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Better to get them out in the open and debate them.



or call them cunts


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 15, 2018)

Puddy_Tat said:


> or call them cunts



That too.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 15, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> It's not just like they go away if you don't.  Even worse they'll claim victimhood.  Better to get them out in the open and debate them.


That's not what the BBC are doing with this scumbag though is it?


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 15, 2018)

teqniq said:


> That's not what the BBC are doing with this scumbag though is it?
> 
> View attachment 141263



Looks hilarious. I'll be watching.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 15, 2018)

Is that for real or a pisstake aimed at the BBC?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

smokedout said:


> Good job really ain't it, given that our lot dispersed meaning the only people left preventing an additional attack were old bill.  Perhaps you didn't see the jublilence on the Square after both anti-fascists and police both largely left  them to it.  If fascists atacking drinkers in pubs, then being left unopposed to cheer about it in the heart of london whilst waving banners calling refugees rapists, despite an impressively large intial anti-fascist presence, isnt a fucking embarrassment then what is?



I've heard from some antifa types that they went into the same pub which fash later attacked but spotted Hedley and decided to drink elsewhere instead.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've heard from some antifa types that they went into the same pub which fash later attacked but spotted Hedley, a known misogynist, antisemite and twat, and decided to drink elsewhere instead.


Known?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've heard from some antifa types that they went into the same pub which fash later attacked but spotted Hedley, a known misogynist, antisemite and twat, and decided to drink elsewhere instead.


You really need to back that up beyond " i heard". "Some antfia types"? There is some irony in Hedly - a noted UK assad supporter - being battered by assad supporters. But anti-semitism?

Apart from the stuff posted above since last night there's a few obv things - 1) attacking RMT in london. 2) Someone with Hedley's connections with AFA. Things will heat up now in london. Far beyond what was going on before.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've heard from some antifa types that they went into the same pub which fash later attacked but spotted Hedley, a known misogynist, antisemite and twat, and decided to drink elsewhere instead.


Known misogynist and anti-semite? You're over-egging your pudding a bit


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've heard from some antifa types that they went into the same pub which fash later attacked but spotted Hedley, a known misogynist, antisemite and twat, and decided to drink elsewhere instead.


And spotted Hedley who is working class anti fascist , rather than some Antifa type , and also deputy leader of the most militant trade union in the country actually defending and achieving pay and conditions for a diverse working class membership . Just to jog your memory wasn't anti fascism supposed to be about defending the working class ? Anyway just as well the Antifa types went to find a safe space rather than shit themselves when it kicked off.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 15, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Known misogynist and anti-semite? You're over-egging your pudding a bit


He is a  pudding .


----------



## smokedout (Jul 15, 2018)

crossthebreeze said:


> Facebook is telling me that police response was to nick Steve Hedley and a woman being treated in hospital for broken ribs after being hit by a chair by the fash.



I didn't see Hedley get nicked but we fucked off when the old bill finally turned up on mass, they did definitely nab two of the attackers, onee was quite bloodied, there's a photo going round but I can't seem to find it.  There were bloodied faces on both sides, not sure you could really say one side came off better.

Anyway we left and went back to the march only to find it had left already and was heading to the tube station apparantly led away by Stand Up To Racism.

Incidentally the truck SUTR were using had pulled up  in Soho the after the Trump demo and played music for a couple of hours - mostly gay club anthems with lots of lycra'd bodies gyrating about and stuff.  It was a good laugh, about 500 people dancing and they said something about holding a party in parliament square althugh I didn't hear it properly.  So I was quite excited when the truck pulled up at the end of Whitehall, people were  flagging and it looked like a stalemate at that point and a bit of music might have got spirits back up and stopped people from sloping off.  But instead we got David fucking Lammy and other assorted trots making the usual boring speeches, so I wonder if SUTR put the dampeners on that as well.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 15, 2018)

On Free Tommy marches in the past the cops mainly acted to keep them and counter demos away from each other. The previous one was testing the limits a bit - can we get away with aggro against the police? - and the answer was yes, there were no real consequences. It also IMO served to narrow the numbers down a bit to those who didn't have a problem with that.

Yesterday was testing the limits a bit more in that (a) they blatantly went against the cops' instructions re: forming up, and nothing happened, and (b) they were able to have random brawls with people outside of the main demo and there was no organised police action to prevent them. I don't see this changing. So yes it has now escalated, because the proportion of proper fash going on these marches has increased dramatically and they're now aware that they can basically do what they want in terms of police response - the only counter will be antifascists and they actively want to have a fight with them. I think the next one will be messier than this.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> And spotted Hedley who is working class anti fascist...



And therefore above reproach?

Antifascism is something you do, not something you are. You can't just say 'he's one of ours so he's fine'. A lot of people get away with a lot of shit thanks to that mindset.


----------



## smokedout (Jul 15, 2018)

Haven't we done Hedley to death on here.  It wasn't just him that got attacked, there was at least one young woman with blood pouring from her ear, it was an indiscriminate fascist attack on left wing activists/organisers.  They may have known the RMT were in there but it could just have been that it was a pub  full of lefties.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

smokedout said:


> Haven't we done Hedley to death on here.  It wasn't just him that got attacked, there was at least one young woman with blood pouring from her ear, it was an indiscriminate fascist attack on left wing activists/organisers.  They may have known the RMT were in there but it could just have been that it was a pub  full of lefties.



I'm not trying to let the fash off the hook here. Obviously an attack like this is bad news for everyone. Just providing a possible explanation why the entire antifascist crowd wasn't guarding that particular pub at that moment in time.

FWIW the person I mentioned earlier who left the pub before the attack returned with others as soon as they heard about it. By the time they got there the police were mopping up. London's a big place, and a confusing one when there are protests and counter-protests all over the place. With the best will in the world, antifascists can't be everywhere at once.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've heard from some antifa types that they went into the same pub which fash later attacked but spotted Hedley, a known misogynist, antisemite and twat, and decided to drink elsewhere instead.


And so it came to pass...


----------



## TopCat (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'm not trying to let the fash off the hook here. Obviously an attack like this is bad news for everyone. Just providing a possible explanation why the entire antifascist crowd wasn't guarding that particular pub at that moment in time.
> 
> FWIW the person I mentioned earlier who left the pub before the attack returned with others as soon as they heard about it. By the time they got there the police were mopping up. London's a big place, and a confusing one when there are protests and counter-protests all over the place. With the best will in the world, antifascists can't be everywhere at once.


This is lame...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

TopCat said:


> This is lame...



So everyone and his mum should have foreseen the attack and defended that pub to the last breath? You got any thoughts on how that might work?


----------



## TopCat (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> So everyone and his mum should have foreseen the attack and defended that pub to the last breath? You got any thoughts on how that might work?


They were the wrong type of anti facists to support.


----------



## smokedout (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> So everyone and his mum should have foreseen the attack and defended that pub to the last breath? You got any thoughts on how that might work?



I'm not sure anyone's criticising for the pub being undefended, people were drinking all over, it would have been impossible to protect them all.  My criticism specifically is that whilst this was taking place the demo was being marched off in the opposite direction and then called it a day despite the day being far from over and despite it being known when people dispersed that fascists had just attacked a pub full of left wing drinkers.


----------



## smokedout (Jul 15, 2018)

So had there been subsequent attacks then they absolutely would have been undefended because everyone had fucked off home after calling the day a back slapping success.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 15, 2018)

Unless somebody had got prior info that he was going to be attacked and thought "nah fuck it let him get battered" I don't think it's relevant. Not wanting to share a pub with someone doesn't mean you wouldn't defend them if it came down to it.

eta: x-posted with smokedout


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

smokedout said:


> I'm not sure anyone's criticising for the pub being undefended, people were drinking all over, it would have been impossible to protect them all.  My criticism specifically is that whilst this was taking place the demo was being marched off in the opposite direction and then called it a day despite the day being far from over and despite it being known when people dispersed that fascists had just attacked a pub full of left wing drinkers.



I've long since drawn a mental distinction between 'antifascists' and 'people who follow SUTR marches'. The latter have never been worth relying on, and often actively hinder efforts to get fash off the streets.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Anyway just as well the Antifa types went to find a safe space rather than shit themselves when it kicked off.



Load of macho bollocks. Show me someone who doesn't have any reservations about wading into a large-scale pub brawl and I'll show you a fucking idiot.


----------



## smokedout (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've long since drawn a mental distinction between 'antifascists' and 'people who follow SUTR marches'. The latter have never been worth relying on, and often actively hinder efforts to get fash off the streets.



And yet everyone, including AFN folk as far as I could tell marched off to Victoria.  There was not a soul about by the time the fascists mobilised in Trafalgar Square, they could have done pretty much whatever they wanted and did, which as it happened was get pissed and sing no surrender and whose streets our streets whilst climbing all over the statues with big victorious grins on their fucking faces.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

smokedout said:


> And yet everyone, including AFN folk as far as I could tell marched off to Victoria.  There was not a soul about by the time the fascists mobilised in Trafalgar Square, they could have done pretty much whatever they wanted and did, which as it happened was get pissed and sing no surrender and whose streets our streets whilst climbing all over the statues with big victorious grins on their fucking faces.



Big look-at-me demos have never been much use for effective mobilisation against fascists. The best actions I've been involved in have involved multiple small groups, good communication, adaptability and intelligence. By the time enough of them have formed up unopposed to attack anything, you've already lost. Doesn't matter how many bodies you throw into the fray at that point.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> So everyone and his mum should have foreseen the attack and defended that pub to the last breath? You got any thoughts on how that might work?


Back up you what you were told.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Back up you what you were told.



I don't work for you.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't work for you.


Do it for the kidz curly.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Do it for the kidz curly.



Name anti-fascists on a public board for the kids? Yeah, no.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Name anti-fascists on a public board for the kids? Yeah, no.


You don't need to and were not asked to.

If you levels of evidence have devolved to _some people told me_...then you're not much use as an anarchist. The SN8 would have loved you  So, up the ladder to the treehouse you go


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> You don't need to and were not asked to.
> 
> If you levels of evidence have devolved to _some people told me_...then you're not much use as an anarchist. The SN8 would have loved you  So, up the ladder to the treehouse you go



I wouldn't be much use as an anarchist without connections to people I can trust. Even less so if I sold out those trusted connections at the behest of some old grouch from the internet.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't care about slogans but if there are people targeting w/c organisers that is cause for grave concern.



Just so that I can express my grave concern about w/class organisers being targeted  let me tell you an anecdote that may or may not be true about antifa types refusing to be in a pub with the w/class organiser who was actually targeted along with a women comrade because my opinion that he is a known misogynist, antisemite and twat is far more important than actually showing any sign of grave concern or solidarity with w/class organisers being targeted.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Just so that I can express my grave concern about w/class organisers being targeted  let me tell you an anecdote that may or may not be true about antifa types refusing to be in a pub with the w/class organiser who was actually targeted along with a women comrade because my opinion that he is a known misogynist, antisemite and twat is far more important than actually showing any sign of grave concern or solidarity with w/class organisers being targeted.



Are you a child? Can you not grasp two bad things being true at the same time? Fascists attacking unions bad, arseholes rising to positions of power in unions also bad.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Are you a child? Can you not grasp two bad things being true at the same time? Fascists attacking unions bad, arseholes rising to positions of power in unions also bad.


People describing other people as known misogynists and anti-semites and refusing to offer evidence also bad.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> People describing other people as known misogynists and anti-semites and refusing to offer evidence also bad.



Search for his name on this site.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've heard from some antifa types that they went into the same pub which fash later attacked but spotted Hedley, a known misogynist, antisemite and twat, and decided to drink elsewhere instead.



Fuck off with this bullshit. Divisive rumour mongering.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Search for his name on this site.




You're full of fail. He's at worst believed to have assaulted CL, there's no way you or I actually know what happened between them. Tell you what, you search what I've previously said about him. Oh: and if you're relying on this site for the anti-semites claim you should retract now.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

SH  spoke publicly on the SUTR truck. He then went round the corner to a pub with some RMT people. There were roving groups of the opposition around* One of those groups  had a pop at an obvious group of lefties.

SH was on the SUTR demo. I don't know what precautions for exactly this predictable eventuality they took.

It was SUTR that decided to announce from their truck that it was time to disperse


*This was not the only scrap.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> idiot.


Don't help by putting it out there ffs


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Don't help by putting it out there ffs



What out there?


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> "working class anti fascist , rather than some Antifa type".



Bit tautological this. Presuming that by "Antifa type" you mean non working class anti fascist.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

TopCat said:


> They were the wrong type of anti facists to support.



Do you really think they were left in the lurch? Or that they left the SUTR demo and found a pub to sit in?


----------



## Nigel (Jul 15, 2018)

andysays said:


> Haven't watched that, but I imagine you mean he *claims* there were casualties on both side etc. The only pictures are of SH himself having got a bloody nose.
> 
> The thing is that he was one of the speakers on the Stand Up to Racism float (I didn't realise this at the time, but have since pieced it together), and so is/was presumably approved by/working with them.
> 
> ...


100% Agree with you on this one !
Opening up the organising to this 'other' group acting as naively or worse well manipulated as what happened this Saturday is a serious aberration & one that needs to be seriously discussed amongst militant and independent anti fascists !


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 15, 2018)

There's a great clip of a fash getting pwned by a police horse - think it's only on twitter and not on youtube, or I'd embed.


----------



## The Flying Pig (Jul 15, 2018)

smokedout said:


> And yet everyone, including AFN folk as far as I could tell marched off to Victoria.  There was not a soul about by the time the fascists mobilised in Trafalgar Square, they could have done pretty much whatever they wanted and did, which as it happened was get pissed and sing no surrender and whose streets our streets whilst climbing all over the statues with big victorious grins on their fucking faces.





Nigel said:


> 100% Agree with you on this one !
> Opening up the organising to this 'other' group acting as naively or worse well manipulated as what happened this Saturday is a serious aberration & one that needs to be seriously discussed amongst militant and independent anti fascists !


Whether we like it or not everyone has their part to play however little or small. Sometimes you work with people who you would normally be politically opposed to but unite against the FLA, EDL and others out yesterday. We don't have to follow the so called organisers. Big up to the RMT on getting so many of their members out yesterday and so many banners. As for SH is this or that, he was just one of many RMT supporters and for those people we should give 100%.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 15, 2018)

The Flying Pig said:


> Whether we like it or not everyone has their part to play however little or small. Sometimes you work with people who you would normally be politically opposed to but unite against the FLA, EDL and others out yesterday. We don't have to follow the so called organisers. Big up to the RMT on getting so many of their members out yesterday and so many banners. As for SH is this or that, he was just one of many RMT supporters and for those people we should give 100%.


Agree with what you say regarding Steve Hedley, however, what you are saying, if you understand and have knowledge of what happened during the end of demonstration yesterday I find naive at best if not dangerous !
However in my opinion details shouldn't be discussed on public forum, but does need to be discussed within AFN & other independent/militant anti fascist groups !
There are quite a few people unhappy with the way things were organised on Saturday, we must learn from our mistakes and sort this out !
If you think that the SWP or people involved in their front organisations are not going to act opportunistically or with integrity, after decades of empirical examples proving the contrary, then your naivety goes beyond reason !


----------



## The Flying Pig (Jul 15, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Agree with what you say regarding Steve Hedley, however, what you are saying, if you understand and have knowledge of what happened during the end of demonstration yesterday I find naive at best if not dangerous !
> However in my opinion details shouldn't be discussed on public forum, but does need to be discussed within AFN & other independent/militant anti fascist groups !
> There are quite a few people unhappy with the way things were organised on Saturday, we must learn from our mistakes and sort this out !
> If you think that the SWP or people involved in their front organisations are not going to act opportunistically or with integrity, after decades of empirical examples proving the contrary, then your naivety goes beyond reason !


No naivety at all, I am fully aware of how the UAF type demos work, So am surprised why once again demonstrators on mass seemed to have followed their lead. As hopefully we are all aware, there have been times at previous demos when the organisers have marched the demo in the opposite direction away from fascists. So rest assured I am fully aware how the SWP/UAF often work.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 15, 2018)

The Flying Pig said:


> No naivety at all, I am fully aware of how the UAF type demos work, So am surprised why once again demonstrators on mass seemed to have followed their lead. As hopefully we are all aware, there have been times at previous demos when the organisers have marched the demo in the opposite direction away from fascists. So rest assured I am fully aware how the SWP/UAF often work.




These central London demos are a bind. Without the UAF numbers there's no hope of countering the fascists and yet the UAF aren't interested in that.

 The RMT and other unions have thrown their weight behind the SWP fronts - so what to do?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2018)

.


----------



## Nigel (Jul 15, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> These central London demos are a bind. Without the UAF numbers there's no hope of countering the fascists and yet the UAF aren't interested in that.
> 
> The RMT and other unions have thrown their weight behind the SWP fronts - so what to do?


Change Tactics
Adapt
Talking to people in and around S H, I don't think he is particularly favourable to UAF/SUTR but sees it as a necessity at the moment ! After unfortunate events last Saturday, there's a possibility he may change his views !


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 15, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> These central London demos are a bind. Without the UAF numbers there's no hope of countering the fascists and yet the UAF aren't interested in that.
> 
> The RMT and other unions have thrown their weight behind the SWP fronts - so what to do?


At some point having a full and frank discussion with those involved in the attack might be a way of beginning the healing process . I've always found that small group discussions mean that people listen better and pay more attention than in larger groups.Less froth/white noise.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 16, 2018)

Nigel said:


> Change Tactics
> Adapt
> Talking to people in and around S H, I don't think he is particularly favourable to UAF/SUTR but sees it as a necessity at the moment ! After unfortunate events last Saturday, there's a possibility he may change his views !



The trouble is always changing tactics to the last thing that happened. Always fighting the previous battle.

What's the next move for the Free Tommy coalition ? Speeches from the stage would indicate that the rump of UKIP would like to turn this into an electoral movement. This wasn't greeted with a lot of enthuisiasm from the floor but might be one direction.

Rallies in central London without an external event (terrorist attack, Tommy gets attacked in prison etc) seem to be offering diminishing returns.

So what they do next is the crucial thing.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 16, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> At some point having a full and frank discussion with those involved in the attack might be a way of beginning the healing process . I've always found that small group discussions mean that people listen better and pay more attention than in larger groups.Less froth/white noise.



Well perhaps a realisation that the AFN isn't the Clapton Ultras would be useful.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 16, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Well perhaps a realisation that the AFN isn't the Clapton Ultras would be useful.


I meant with those who were involved in the attack on the RMT


----------



## emanymton (Jul 16, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> These central London demos are a bind. Without the UAF numbers there's no hope of countering the fascists and yet the UAF aren't interested in that.
> 
> The RMT and other unions have thrown their weight behind the SWP fronts - so what to do?


You seem to be suggesting that the SWP is somehow leading the unions down a less militant path, when it is more likely the other way round.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 16, 2018)

emanymton said:


> You seem to be suggesting that the SWP is somehow leading the unions down a less militant path, when it is more likely the other way round.



Potentially. Although many now seem to be calling for the unions to organise anti fascism directly the fact that they're legally incorporated bodies with salaried staff and assets does make that tricky.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 16, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I meant with those who were involved in the attack on the RMT



I think that chat's been had by the look of it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 16, 2018)

emanymton said:


> You seem to be suggesting that the SWP is somehow leading the unions down a less militant path, when it is more likely the other way round.


Or maybe they're arm in arm happy to go down the path together


----------



## emanymton (Jul 16, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Potentially. Although many now seem to be calling for the unions to organise anti fascism directly the fact that they're legally incorporated bodies with salaried staff and assets does make that tricky.


Individual union members will have a range of opinions. Let's be frank there will be some who are TR supporters. 

But the leadership will want to stay awy from anything remotely controversial like its the plague.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 16, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Or maybe they're arm in arm happy to go down the path together


Well yeah, i don't think they are exactly kicking and screaming. If nothing else 'we need to keep the unions onside' is a way for the SWP leadwrship to deflect criticism from their own membership .


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 16, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> What's the next move for the Free Tommy coalition ? Speeches from the stage would indicate that the rump of UKIP would like to turn this into an electoral movement. This wasn't greeted with a lot of enthuisiasm from the floor but might be one direction.
> 
> Rallies in central London without an external event (terrorist attack, Tommy gets attacked in prison etc) seem to be offering diminishing returns.
> 
> So what they do next is the crucial thing.



(un)fortunately Gerard Batten is a total charisma free zone

You can't say that of TR though & I think I can confidently predict a triumphant "victory rally" when he does finally get out. But at that point the real moment of decision is reached : Does he pick up the go-pro & continue the "journalism" or re-boot EDL MkII with all the hassle that brings - which I'm not convinced he wants to do - but will fulfill the promise he has now assumed as some sort of leader-in-waiting / king across the water.

Atm he is serving a useful function where he is martyring himself for the cause.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 16, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> (un)fortunately Gerard Batten is a total charisma free zone
> 
> You can't say that of TR though & I think I can confidently predict a triumphant "victory rally" when he does finally get out. But at that point the real moment of decision is reached : Does he pick up the go-pro & continue the "journalism" or re-boot EDL MkII with all the hassle that brings - which I'm not convinced he wants to do - but will fulfill the promise he has now assumed as some sort of leader-in-waiting / king across the water.
> 
> Atm he is serving a useful function where he is martyring himself for the cause.



I think he might have underestimated the state and/or his own popularity. He can be released at the half way point but his license could easily prevent him going online or speaking to anyone but his family. Paul Golding is on some kind of post sentence supervision like that. This all has precedent in how the AR prisoners were treated .


----------



## Poi E (Jul 16, 2018)

Ahh, silenced again by the elite.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 16, 2018)

Poi E said:


> Ahh, silenced again by the elite.



Absolutely, but without a convincing John the Baptist figure he's a bit fucked.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 17, 2018)

smokedout said:


> Unlike the EDL though this isn't just the usual suspects plus a bunch of up for it casuals, although that's what the more vocal crowd around Nelson's Column looked like.  But around the square and in the pub there were lots of older eccentric ukip types, young smartly dressed generation identity types and 4chan type geeks.  The constituency seems to have broadened considerably, which might not do them much good in the long run, it remains to be seen, but they looked very different to the traditional far right crowd.


I dont usually quote Searchlight but I found this quick briefing on the alt-light and the alt-right quite useful .Its problematic because the siutuation is quite fluid and these demonstrations have seen both trends plus the TR brigade and fascists combine together, with  Gen -Id  trying to recruit from them all.Its clearly the alt-lite who are behind the Welcome Trump stunts and the Trump Arms and they have also put a lot of work into the Free Tommy stuff. 
The International Alternative Right


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 17, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I dont usually quote Searchlight but...


----------



## sim667 (Jul 18, 2018)

Lennon's appeal is today.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 18, 2018)

I have to say the updates from this twitter user are much better than the independent ones

Amos Quito (@hubare) on Twitter


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 19, 2018)

This comedy gold. This plank is like an alt right Alan Partridge. He mistakes the Holiday Inn for the BBC , thinks he's being edgy in Manchester wearing a Tshirt having a go at the Mayor of London, cant get his equipment to work and then the expert in common law who hes waiting  to turn up turns out to be some dopey hippy. Wont go to Costa Coffee and five minutes later is looking for somewhere that isnt Halal.


----------



## 2hats (Jul 19, 2018)

Newsnight had an item on this last night. I link it here FWIW.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 19, 2018)

Fuuuucking hell 

Eta The39thStep


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 19, 2018)

2hats said:


> Newsnight had an item on this last night. I link it here FWIW.


The woman in the red dress is exactly the sort of person who supports TR but who cannot be written off as a fascist


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 22, 2018)

if anyone is so minded Steve Hedley on Galloway's RT show (_ yeah I know_) ( 2nd half ). 

Interesting for SH somewhat critical comments on the posture of the Police in relation to the whole incident & possible complaint "friend was banging on side of van - didn't come out til it was all over"

Episode 237


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 22, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> The woman in the red dress is exactly the sort of person who supports TR but who cannot be written off as a fascist



but she was pretty disgusted when it was clear what the kind of people make up his hard core support.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 23, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> but she was pretty disgusted when it was clear what the kind of people make up his hard core support.


Not sure who is his 'hard core' support tbh. Quite clear early EDL that fascists weren't welcome but TR campaign lacks both leadership and structure.


----------



## Geri (Jul 23, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> if anyone is so minded Steve Hedley on Galloway's RT show (_ yeah I know_) ( 2nd half ).
> 
> Interesting for SH somewhat critical comments on the posture of the Police in relation to the whole incident & possible complaint "friend was banging on side of van - didn't come out til it was all over"
> 
> Episode 237


 
Don't watch RT. It is Russian propaganda.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 23, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Not sure who is his 'hard core' support tbh. Quite clear early EDL that fascists weren't welcome but TR campaign lacks both leadership and structure.



Early EDL tried to (unsuccessfully)  keep them quiet for reasons of PR, but seem very much at home now. Who'd have though that recruiting football "firms" to take to the streets to combat  "Islamification" would have turned at this way eh? (apart from just about everybody)


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

Can I ask a question (please don’t shout me down). This TR movement seems to be wrapping understandable anger about grooming, and terrorism, and anger towards the elite, in a free speech cloak. The line seems to be that the establishment and the left are closing down free speech to stop people pointing out the obvious- that Muslims are the enemy of our people. That’s far right racism right, the rise of fascism.

So my question is this: where are our politicians speaking out against this? Calling this shit out and denouncing it? They usually are bending over backwards to make sure they are not seen as racist, not seen as anti-Semitic. Yet I’ve not heard a single politician speak out against this (have I missed it? I don’t watch the news). Where the fuck is Corbyn on this?


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 23, 2018)

Geri said:


> Don't watch RT. It is Russian propaganda.



Good for understanding Russian propaganda though


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 23, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> Early EDL tried to (unsuccessfully)  keep them quiet for reasons of PR, but seem very much at home now. Who'd have though that recruiting football "firms" to take to the streets to combat  "Islamification" would have turned at this way eh? (apart from just about everybody)


The FLA initiative was quite seperate and in fact the FLA wouldn't have TR as a speaker.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 23, 2018)

Geri said:


> Don't watch RT. It is Russian propaganda.


Entirely?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Entirely?



Used to watch it some years back, pre-Trump. It was interesting to see another pov but like Fox, you'd take it with a pinch of salt. Perhaps not as blatant as Fox, in fairness.

I miss Al Jazeera.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> Can I ask a question (please don’t shout me down). This TR movement seems to be wrapping understandable anger about grooming, and terrorism, and anger towards the elite, in a free speech cloak. The line seems to be that the establishment and the left are closing down free speech to stop people pointing out the obvious- that Muslims are the enemy of our people. That’s far right racism right, the rise of fascism.
> 
> So my question is this: where are our politicians speaking out against this? Calling this shit out and denouncing it? They usually are bending over backwards to make sure they are not seen as racist, not seen as anti-Semitic. Yet I’ve not heard a single politician speak out against this (have I missed it? I don’t watch the news). Where the fuck is Corbyn on this?



Perhaps they don't want to give him the oxygen of publicity? TR, not JC.

The only coverage TR gets in my neck of the woods is from online alt right Americans, frothing at the mouth. You try and explain why he's been jailed but you might as well be bashing your head off a brick wall.

Tbh, really don't know if it's better off ignoring him or worrying about him. Part of me does worry that if he goes unchecked and the whole support around him - where does that leave the UK in a few years time? Then again, British people have a good record of smashing fascism in the past.


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Perhaps they don't want to give him the oxygen of publicity? TR, not JC.


I wonder if they won’t denounce him cos it would be seen as the elite ignoring people’s concerns and thus risk losing support.

The thing surely is NOT to ignore people’s real concerns. Two big issues he’s riding on are the organised rape of working class white girls by Muslim grooming gangs, and immigration.

People’s concerns around these issues are genuine, valid and reasonable. They should not be dismissed as bigoted nonsense.

The rape of working class girls was enabled by a left wing ideology that said it was racist to point out these crimes were being committed by Muslim men. It was an absolute failure of services, and it came about due to the left wing fear of being called racist.

And immigration fears (and Brexit imo) from the elite being so out of touch that they could not see that whilst immigration may benefit ‘the economy’ as a whole, it is seen as a threat and a burden by poor communities who simply lack the resources to accommodate it. That they lack the resources is a direct result of austerity.

So politicians can’t denounce TR without addressing the *actual politics* he talks about. To do so, to simply denounce the movement as fascism *would* alienate his many supporters who have genuine concerns but are not actually far right fascists (ie the majority of them). But they don’t wanna address the actual politics cos it was their actual politics that created the mess in the first place.

I may be well off, I dunno.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 23, 2018)




----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> it came about due to the left wing fear of being called racist.


this is thew big lie imo. Was it the notoriously left wing coppers and their well known sense of anti racist sensibilities? The legal system, all those commie magistrates? nah. It was neglect of duties because the services both police and social thought the girls were estate slags and thats the dark truth, putting it on some mythical conspiracy of uniformed guardian readers (who must have been hiding thier PC light under a bushel for a number of years right). I didn't buy it when it was the sun headline on the day the story broke and I don't buy it now just because its been repeated into truth by people with agendas


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> I wonder if they won’t denounce him cos it would be seen as the elite ignoring people’s concerns and thus risk losing support.
> 
> The thing surely is NOT to ignore people’s real concerns. Two big issues he’s riding on are the organised rape of working class white girls by Muslim grooming gangs, and immigration.
> 
> ...



The sweeping under the mat of concerns about organised gangs preying on kids was a strange thing. But now this concern and anger has been taken by TR and co. and used to smear the left and create more hatreds and divisions. You have people claiming with a straight face that it's a "muslim thing". Which must delight TR and co. 

Are the majority of his many supporters not far right? I dunno. I'm only going by online activity which is not perhaps the best indicator. I'm told that many loyalists during the marching season are not sectarian and they are working class people who just want to protect their culture. Yes, it's not the same but you can see how twisty it all gets. 

TR's actual politics seem very suspect to me and the faux concern (from him and his core supporters) is risible.


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> this is thew big lie imo. Was it the notoriously left wing coppers and their well known sense of anti racist sensibilities? The legal system, all those commie magistrates? nah. It was neglect of duties because the services both police and social thought the girls were estate slags and thats the dark truth, putting it on some mythical conspiracy of uniformed guardian readers (who must have been hiding thier PC light under a bushel for a number of years right). I didn't buy it when it was the sun headline on the day the story broke and I don't buy it now just because its been repeated into truth by people with agendas


Yep that was part of it. Maybe the biggest part. But another part was the inability to recognise that a lot of these abusers came from a Muslim religious background and communities that think that if women dress ‘provocatively’ and are out at night they are asking for it.


----------



## DownwardDog (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> The rape of working class girls was enabled by a left wing ideology that said it was racist to point out these crimes were being committed by Muslim men.



It's a class issue not a race issue. If they had been abusing girls from Roedean they would have been locked up immediately.


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

DownwardDog said:


> It's a class issue not a race issue. If they had been abusing girls from Roedean they would have been locked up immediately.


That’s why I said working class girls


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> Yep that was part of it. Maybe the biggest part. But another part was the inability to recognise that a lot of these abusers came from a Muslim religious background and communities that think that if women dress ‘provocatively’ and are out at night they are asking for it.



Here's the thing, though. If TR and the core support cares so much about victims of abuse, why are they only targetting abusers from a Muslim background?


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Here's the thing, though. If TR and the core support cares so much about victims of abuse, why are they only targetting abusers from a Muslim background?


Because they are racist arsewipes who want a far right nationalist state?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> and communities that think that if women dress ‘provocatively’ and are out at night they are asking for it.


big leap here. I'd wager most of the community however conservative in their social attitudes don't think organising to rape kids is an acceptable thing to do just because the targets are white. Interestingly the on the grounds worker who spoke out to her superiors about what was going on was told to 'let them go'. That'll be senior social services who as you well know are stuffed to the gills with hideous bourgeois freaks who despise the working classes.


see the bleedthrough into making it a race war issue though? Not only are these men muslim, we've just invoked the silent complicity of all the brown muslim people in the area under the aegis of 'thats thier culture'.

The way the right tells this has the same fingerprints as all its 'rapefugee' stuff, right down to the silence of der left, a left grown so powerful in imagination its now infiltrated every echelon of the judicial system


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> Because they are racist arsewipes who want a far right nationalist state?



Possibly, yeh.

So how to dismantle them, without accusations that the elite are trying to silence the working class?


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Possibly, yeh.
> 
> So how to dismantle them, without accusations that the elite are trying to silence the working class?


Address the actual fucking concerns people have about immigration, the failure of multiculturalism, the EU open borders, Muslim grooming gangs, terrorism etc


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> big leap here. I'd wager most of the community however conservative in their social attitudes don't think organising to rape kids is an acceptable thing to do just because the targets are white


God absolutely, of course. Goes without saying.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> Address the actual fucking concerns people have about immigration, the failure of multiculturalism, the EU open borders, Muslim grooming gangs, terrorism etc



You'll have to explain the failure of multiculturalism to me, not sure what that means?


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 23, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> this is thew big lie imo. Was it the notoriously left wing coppers and their well known sense of anti racist sensibilities? The legal system, all those commie magistrates? nah. It was neglect of duties because the services both police and social thought the girls were estate slags and thats the dark truth, putting it on some mythical conspiracy of uniformed guardian readers (who must have been hiding thier PC light under a bushel for a number of years right). I didn't buy it when it was the sun headline on the day the story broke and I don't buy it now just because its been repeated into truth by people with agendas


Call me naive, but how did it come to be that the left were scapegoated then; is it just that Labour got the blame and the populist view is that Labour is lefty, regardless.

Was there genuinely no element that could be put down to not wanting to be accused of racism - no matter how well intentioned? I seem to recall from reading some of the post Rotherham analysis that it was down to a confluence of factors, including this. Even if a small part.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 23, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This comedy gold. This plank is like an alt right Alan Partridge. He mistakes the Holiday Inn for the BBC , thinks he's being edgy in Manchester wearing a Tshirt having a go at the Mayor of London, cant get his equipment to work and then the expert in common law who hes waiting  to turn up turns out to be some dopey hippy. Wont go to Costa Coffee and five minutes later is looking for somewhere that isnt Halal.



Genocide, ffs


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 23, 2018)

nobody actually covers for CSE for fear of being called racist. This is in essence the bullshit you are being asked to swallow. Might make a decent enough half excuse post hoc though right? especially when half the legworks been done for you by the press 'victims of the PC brigade!'.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> I wonder if they won’t denounce him cos it would be seen as the elite ignoring people’s concerns and thus risk losing support.
> 
> The thing surely is NOT to ignore people’s real concerns. Two big issues he’s riding on are the organised rape of working class white girls by Muslim grooming gangs, and immigration.
> 
> ...


Was it ever established that the gangs were _muslims
_


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 23, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> nobody actually covers for CSE for fear of being called racist. This is in essence the bullshit you are being asked to swallow. Might make a decent enough half excuse post hoc though right? especially when half the legworks been done for you by the press 'victims of the PC brigade!'.


So how would you convince the TR brigade of this? What can you point to in evidence?


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

The way TR uses the free speech line is really very clever. Look at this interview with Shazia Hobbs. Here’s a woman who is concerned about forced marriage, FGM and the abuse of Muslim children. She was accused by Sadiq Khan of hate speech when raising the issue. The point TR makes is that if you raise concerns about ‘cultural practices’ like FGM, forced marriage, honour killings then you are silenced by the left, by the establishment, by being called a racist.

This of course completely ignore the fact that many in Muslim communities are opposed to, and organise against, those practices. But TR doesn’t care, he can use ‘free speech’ to mean free to be racist and present it as being on the side of justice.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 23, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> So how would you convince the TR brigade of this? What can you point to in evidence?


few weeks back I had the discussion with a chap round my brothers house. All I had was the class point-  and logic tbf, what seems really likely here, the suddenly anti racist old bill etc? Can't say I convinced him. It does seem strange to me that the depressingly banal sociopaths indifference of the state towards the working class girls is the 'out there' unbelievable thing though. Like people have trouble accepting how little these people give a shit?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 23, 2018)

Grooming Gangs: Focus on protecting children, not Far Right agendas.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 23, 2018)

Has TR ever ever campaigned against white paedos ever?
He doesn't care about the victims, just himself, image, ego and bank balance


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 23, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> few weeks back I had the discussion with a chap round my brothers house. All I had was the class point-  and logic tbf, what seems really likely here, the suddenly anti racist old bill etc? Can't say I convinced him. It does seem strange to me that the depressingly banal sociopaths indifference of the state towards the working class girls is the 'out there' unbelievable thing though. Like people have trouble accepting how little these people give a shit?


Good point about the cops. 

I still wonder if that's not too easy an explanation. But then I don't know any better.

(that feeling when you start to know how much you don't)

Of course the cops are part of the institution that the TR brigrade think should be protected - the thin blue establishment line, who's skin is seen only in one colour of course - so arguing this point is always going to be difficult I would think


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Has TR ever ever campaigned against white paedos ever?
> He doesn't care about the victims, just himself, image, ego and bank balance


Nah I disagree. He really believes what he’s saying. That’s what makes him dangerous.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 23, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Has TR ever ever campaigned against white paedos ever?
> He doesn't care about the victims, just himself, image, ego and bank balance


Doubtful, though of course he'll point to Saville as he has done many times because Saville was part of the lefty liberal BBC cultural marxist blah blah


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> Nah I disagree. He really believes what he’s saying. That’s what makes him dangerous.


Laurie penny did an interview with him where she seemed to find him a bit of a fantasist, walter mitty type. If that makes any sense; gullible. I suspect that's the case; easily led. Ripe for the likes of Steve fucking Bannon


----------



## ddraig (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> Nah I disagree. He really believes what he’s saying. That’s what makes him dangerous.


that doesn't negate what I posted though, he may believe it but him not doorstepping or campaigning against any white paedos ever shows his agenda no?
e2a and that he's earning decent money from it


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Laurie penny did an interview with him where she seemed to find him a bit of a fantasist, walter mitty type. If that makes any sense; gullible. I suspect that's the case; easily led. Ripe for the likes of Steve fucking Bannon


Link for interest? 

All the stuff of his I’ve seen has been him interviewing (ie in the position of power).


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 23, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> Early EDL tried to (unsuccessfully)  keep them quiet for reasons of PR, but seem very much at home now. Who'd have though that recruiting football "firms" to take to the streets to combat  "Islamification" would have turned at this way eh? (apart from just about everybody)


As a footnote antifascist football firms kept the police very busy at the weekend in Scotland when the SDL marched


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 23, 2018)

that laurrie penny interview was awful stuff. Tommy ordered the most expensive steak on the menu, apparently. Probably ordered a double on the journo's expenses too, the swine. A proper nothing of an interview that really told us more about vapid class prejudice and the menu at Hungry Horse than anything else. Observe tommy's flashy motor etc


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> You'll have to explain the failure of multiculturalism to me, not sure what that means?



Anyone?

I ask because it's something I tend to hear from the right - the failure of the _multiculty experiment_ and all that bollocks.

To me, multiculturalism just means our societies where we have friends, families, neighbours, colleagues etc who come from all walks of life/religions/parents from a different country and so on...


----------



## teqniq (Jul 23, 2018)

Nine people sought by police after violence at Tommy Robinson protest


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Anyone?
> 
> I ask because it's something I tend to hear from the right - the failure of the _multiculty experiment_ and all that bollocks.
> 
> To me, multiculturalism just means our societies where we have friends, families, neighbours, colleagues etc who come from all walks of life/religions/parents from a different country and so on...


Well that isn’t what multiculturalism means, no.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> Well that isn’t what multiculturalism means, no.


what does it mean and how has it failed then?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 23, 2018)

EDL was very much had its genesis with football firms though - and the FLA has followed exactly the same trajectory.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> Well that isn’t what multiculturalism means, no.



Please, tell me what it means to *you*.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 23, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> that laurrie penny interview was awful stuff. Tommy ordered the most expensive steak on the menu, apparently. Probably ordered a double on the journo's expenses too, the swine. A proper nothing of an interview that really told us more about vapid class prejudice and the menu at Hungry Horse than anything else. Observe tommy's flashy motor etc


Because he presents himself as working class, i think that was the point, rather than the author's own prejudices


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

ddraig said:


> what does it mean and how has it failed then?





krtek a houby said:


> Please, tell me what it means to *you*.


Well I thought it was the idea that different ethnic groups could live alongside each other without necessarily the aim of integrating. And re failure, look at much of the North where communities are often almost completely divided by ethnic background eg white working class and British Pakistani, and the racial tensions from that.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> Well I thought it was the idea that different ethnic groups could live alongside each other without necessarily the aim of integrating. And re failure, look at much of the North where communities are often almost completely divided by ethnic background eg white working class and British Pakistani, and the racial tensions from that.



I never saw segregation as a part of it - to me that isn't multiculturalism. Neither is racial tension. That's the negatives that right wing critics obsess on & I know you're not right wing at all, so ... how has people of different backgrounds living together/working together/marrying/contributing/friendships/fighting fascism etc... how has that failed, as such?

Not having a go, btw. Just curious as to what term you would use instead of multiculturalism?


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

I think you just don’t understand what the term actually means. I don’t mean ‘means to you’, I mean what the accepted meaning actually is?

Edit: I mean multiculturalism as opposed to integration, or cultural assimilation. I dunno if that makes it clearer?


----------



## agricola (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> Well I thought it was the idea that different ethnic groups could live alongside each other without necessarily the aim of integrating. And re failure, look at much of the North where communities are often almost completely divided by ethnic background eg white working class and British Pakistani, and the racial tensions from that.



Those situations never exist in isolation, though.  Take the North, which the government in Westminster has almost systematically allowed to decline - industries gone, quality education gone, those young that can going down to London for what passes for decent work nowadays, local services and transport links wrecked and with the few nice bits priced out of the hands of locals by holiday home ownership or retirees.  

Rather than admit what successive Governments have done they have at best not challenged the belief (if not encouraged, to a degree) the idea that the people to blame for the scarce resources are those lot, "over there".


----------



## 8ball (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> I think you just don’t understand what the term actually means. I don’t mean ‘means to you’, I mean what the accepted meaning actually is?
> 
> Edit: I mean multiculturalism as opposed to integration, or cultural assimilation. I dunno if that makes it clearer?



I find it gets used in both ways, which obviously leads to people talking past each other when you have:

Meaning 1: People getting on and living together despite differences, which are tolerated even if not always exactly celebrated
Meaning 2: People ignoring and segregating themselves from each other because of the same differences


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 23, 2018)

malik critiques multiculturalism quite a bit


> The truth about multiculturalism is far more complex than either side will allow, and the debate about it has often devolved into sophistry. Multiculturalism has become a proxy for other social and political issues: immigration, identity, political disenchantment, working-class decline. Different countries, moreover, have followed distinct paths. The United Kingdom has sought to give various ethnic communities a more equal stake in the political system. Germany has encouraged immigrants to pursue separate lives in lieu of granting them citizenship. And France has rejected multicultural policies in favour of assimilationist ones. The specific outcomes have also varied: in the United Kingdom, there has been communal violence; in Germany, Turkish communities have drifted further from mainstream society; and in France, the relationship between the authorities and North African communities has become highly charged. But everywhere, the overarching consequences have been the same: fragmented societies, alienated minorities, and resentful citizenries.
> 
> As a political tool, multiculturalism has functioned as not merely a response to diversity but also a means of constraining it. And that insight reveals a paradox. Multicultural policies accept as a given that societies are diverse, yet they implicitly assume that such diversity ends at the edges of minority communities. They seek to institutionalize diversity by putting people into ethnic and cultural boxes – into a singular, homogeneous Muslim community, for example – and defining their needs and rights accordingly. Such policies, in other words, have helped create the very divisions they were meant to manage.



THE FAILURE OF MULTICULTURALISM


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> I think you just don’t understand what the term actually means. I don’t mean ‘means to you’, I mean what the accepted meaning actually is?
> 
> Edit: I mean multiculturalism as opposed to integration, or cultural assimilation. I dunno if that makes it clearer?



If you mean _integration_ has failed; I'd disagree - at least, from a London perspective. As for the latter, I think that's a whole different kettle of fish. Anyways, don't want to derail any further but it certainly is something worth discussing elsewhere.


----------



## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> If you mean _integration_ has failed; I'd disagree - at least, from a London perspective. As for the latter, I think that's a whole different kettle of fish. Anyways, don't want to derail any further but it certainly is something worth discussing elsewhere.


Except it’s not really derailing the thread. Cos a lot of what TR goes on about is related. FGM for example.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> Link for interest?
> 
> All the stuff of his I’ve seen has been him interviewing (ie in the position of power).


What Is the England That English Fascists Want to Defend?


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## Edie (Jul 23, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> What Is the England That English Fascists Want to Defend?


God she’s very patronising isn’t she.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 23, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> I never saw segregation as a part of it - to me that isn't multiculturalism. Neither is racial tension. That's the negatives that right wing critics obsess on & I know you're not right wing at all, so ... how has people of different backgrounds living together/working together/marrying/contributing/friendships/fighting fascism etc... how has that failed, as such?
> 
> Not having a go, btw. Just curious as to what term you would use instead of multiculturalism?


You are confusing multiculturalism and multiracialism. Edie's right. Top down multiculturalism doesnt encourage integration , it encourages seperation or side by side living. Many of the funding streams under Labour for communities were race based not community based.When people complained they were labelled racist. Even Trevor Philips who was a key proponent of top down multiculturalism acknowledges that not onlydid it fail but has created divisions.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 23, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> What Is the England That English Fascists Want to Defend?


One of the weirdest things I have come across is that an altright blogger in Scotland who for a couple of years had a very large following was obsesed with her , buying her books and thinking she was the best thing since sliced bread.


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## Toast Rider (Jul 23, 2018)

Edie said:


> God she’s very patronising isn’t she.


Well, i ascribe that to her being visibly disgusted by the subject.


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 23, 2018)




----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 23, 2018)

That Laurie penny article is proper snotty - hinting at mental illness is shoddy. At least she prophesied the fall of tommy and the EDL accurately 

Oh hang on....


----------



## treelover (Jul 23, 2018)

teqniq said:


> View attachment 141952
> 
> Nine people sought by police after violence at Tommy Robinson protest



Is it the blogger who tweeted this who has given them those names or elsewhere?


----------



## teqniq (Jul 23, 2018)

treelover said:


> Is it the blogger who tweeted this who has given them those names or elsewhere?


He is a comedian so I suspect that he is having a laugh at their expense.


----------



## Geri (Jul 23, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Entirely?


 
Well, yes - since it is funded by the Kremlin.


----------



## treelover (Jul 23, 2018)

There was a poll a couple of years ago, that claimed 48% would vote for a nationalist party that eschewed violence, was shocked at that one.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 23, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Many of the funding streams under Labour for communities were race based not community based.


Which funding streams are you thinking of, in particular?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 23, 2018)

treelover said:


> There was a poll a couple of years ago, that claimed 48% would vote for a nationalist party that eschewed violence, was shocked at that one.


Poll where? link?


----------



## Poi E (Jul 23, 2018)

treelover said:


> There was a poll a couple of years ago, that claimed 48% would vote for a nationalist party that eschewed violence, was shocked at that one.



Quite a few in Scotland vote for a nationalist party that eschews violence. Have done for a decade now.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 23, 2018)

it would be harder to find a nationalist party ( esp WRT aims of statehood) that does not advocate some limited getting the boot in action


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 23, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Has TR ever ever campaigned against white paedos ever?
> He doesn't care about the victims, just himself, image, ego and bank balance


Worse than that - back in his EDL days he actually defended an EDL member who was caught with child porn on his computer.

I'm away at the moment so can't find the links, but if you google it you'll find a host of EDL/BNP/NA types have been sent down for this sort of thing. Not a peep out of TR though.


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 23, 2018)

Found it - I posted the link originally in post 278 on this thread:

Rod's Randoms: pae-DL! The child abusers at the heart of Britain's far right


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> You are confusing multiculturalism and multiracialism. Edie's right. Top down multiculturalism doesnt encourage integration , it encourages seperation or side by side living. Many of the funding streams under Labour for communities were race based not community based.When people complained they were labelled racist. Even Trevor Philips who was a key proponent of top down multiculturalism acknowledges that not onlydid it fail but has created divisions.



So when a right wing person says multiculturalism has failed - what they are actually saying is that multiracialism has failed? Have to be honest, I've not heard of the latter term before.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2018)

Thinking about it a wee bit more, I can't really accept this _particular definition_ of it. It would mean that all my life believing in diversity, equality and living in harmony whilst still celebrating your culture (and others)... that this is somehow wrong? It would mean that the right wing bigots who have sneered at multiculturalism since _at least_ apartheid times are somehow right?

Confused.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 24, 2018)

But the UK has always been a multi-cultural place. I mean, the English, Welsh, Scottish and Irish nations all have equal standing in this proud Union.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Thinking about it a wee bit more, I can't really accept this _particular definition_ of it. It would mean that all my life believing in diversity, equality and living in harmony whilst still celebrating your culture (and others)... that this is somehow wrong? It would mean that the right wing bigots who have sneered at multiculturalism since _at least_ apartheid times are somehow right?
> 
> Confused.



Sorry for just barging in without an introduction. I’ve been following this thread since Tommy’s arrest and his appeal (which I think will be partly successful). As for which side of the debate is ‘right’ I suspect it’s neither:

“It would mean that all my life believing in diversity, equality and living in harmony whilst still celebrating your culture (and others)... that this is somehow wrong?” - I think it’s only partly wrong.

"It would mean that the right wing bigots who have sneered at multiculturalism since _at least_ apartheid times are somehow right?“ - Or it could mean they are partly right about something’s. Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. But are you sure it’s fair to categorise the right as mere “bigots”? Isn’t a bigot someone who doesn’t accept other people having different views and opinions to themselves, is this intolerance limited to the right.

In my experience the left are sometimes correct and sometimes wrong, and the right are sometimes correct and sometimes wrong? Isn’t this exactly what should be expected?


----------



## Poi E (Jul 24, 2018)

Surely focusing on immigrant cultures is unduly restrictive? In respect of the UK the primary question is the extent to which the constituent nations are part of a plural culture. That, I think, is something that is disappearing, and it has nothing to do with lack of integration of immigrants.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 24, 2018)

There are posters on some appalling fb groups who seem to be mounting s subtle campaign to liken him to nelson Mandela. Seriously


----------



## LDC (Jul 24, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Thinking about it a wee bit more, I can't really accept this _particular definition_ of it. It would mean that all my life believing in diversity, equality and living in harmony whilst still celebrating your culture (and others)... that this is somehow wrong? It would mean that the right wing bigots who have sneered at multiculturalism since _at least_ apartheid times are somehow right?
> 
> Confused.



Have you read any of the links on here that are left wing critiques of multi-culturalism? Did you read the Kenan Malik piece?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2018)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Have you read anything that's been linked to left wing critiques of multi-culturalism on here? Did you read the Kenan Malik piece?



Possibly, there's so much stuff to read and that what is recommened!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Sorry for just barging in without an introduction. I’ve been following this thread since Tommy’s arrest and his appeal (which I think will be partly successful). As for which side of the debate is ‘right’ I suspect it’s neither:
> 
> “It would mean that all my life believing in diversity, equality and living in harmony whilst still celebrating your culture (and others)... that this is somehow wrong?” - I think it’s only partly wrong.
> 
> ...



Tommy Robinson will never be right, not even once a day. He's doing time, mind. Which I'm cool with.

ETA: By "right" I mean "correct", he's clearly a bigot.


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 24, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> There are posters on some appalling fb groups who seem to be mounting s subtle campaign to liken him to nelson Mandela. Seriously



Barely three weeks in captivity,
A racist shit who's only 4'3" 

Freeee Tommy Rob in son.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

Edie said:


> The way TR uses the free speech line is really very clever. Look at this interview with Shazia Hobbs. Here’s a woman who is concerned about forced marriage, FGM and the abuse of Muslim children. She was accused by Sadiq Khan of hate speech when raising the issue. The point TR makes is that if you raise concerns about ‘cultural practices’ like FGM, forced marriage, honour killings then you are silenced by the left, by the establishment, by being called a racist.
> 
> This of course completely ignore the fact that many in Muslim communities are opposed to, and organise against, those practices. But TR doesn’t care, he can use ‘free speech’ to mean free to be racist and present it as being on the side of justice.




I would love to see what the left’s response to what this lady is saying actually is. I believe they will continue to refuse to address her concerns and double down on the attempts to silence her. This will leave the likes of Tommy Robinson as the only people helping her and continue to strengthen the likes of Tommy Robinson. I remember the count dankula trial where a comedian was prosecuted under a UK wide law brought in by the last labour government which criminalised jokes online if someone was grossly offended by them. The case went on and on and gathered more and more publicity creating a sense of outrage against the law. The leftist PC Scottish establishment doubled down and Tommy Robinson got involved towards the end of the case and his support seemed to be welcomed (probably because very few others supported dankula). In the end dankula, a former communist and YouTube comedian with less than a dozen followers when the joke was made, ended up with hundreds of thousands of followers, gave tommy a platform on his channel and joined UKIP. Several other YouTubers followed him (most notably Sargon of Akkad) and UKIP gained over 500 new members. Well done.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 24, 2018)

fuck me, the ranks of UKIP have swollen mightily. Five hundred no less, among them names of legend like captain pugfash. Would be more fitting if you'd  claimed 300 tbf.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I would love to see what the left’s response to what this lady is saying actually is. I believe they will continue to refuse to address her concerns and double down on the attempts to silence her. This will leave the likes of Tommy Robinson as the only people helping her and continue to strengthen the likes of Tommy Robinson. I remember the count dankula trial where a comedian was prosecuted under a UK wide law brought in by the last labour government which criminalised jokes online if someone was grossly offended by them. The case went on and on and gathered more and more publicity creating a sense of outrage against the law. The leftist PC Scottish establishment doubled down and Tommy Robinson got involved towards the end of the case and his support seemed to be welcomed (probably because very few others supported dankula). In the end dankula, a former communist and YouTube comedian with less than a dozen followers when the joke was made, ended up with hundreds of thousands of followers, gave tommy a platform on his channel and joined UKIP. Several other YouTubers followed him (most notably Sargon of Akkad) and UKIP gained over 500 new members. Well done.


I thought you were done with this site beavis?

Look, the left isn't part of the life of the people behind the TR stuff in any way except as a lecturing teacher or careerist two faced wanker. The left as left simply doesn't exist apart from as something to kick against - historical mis-identification and so on aside. So demanding that 'the left' wave a magic wand and and somehow sort all of this out is nonsense - and you know it. And your patent dishonesty in this is part of why this gap between w/c people and the left has developed - people like you in their ear all the time saying _yes, the left is your enemy, they have never done and never will do anything for you_ - despite the (idealised) conditions that the EDL and similar responses are an inchoate demand to return to - being substantially due to the actions of the historic left. You are poisoning the ground for any hopeful or useful future movement and you damn well know it.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I would love to see what the left’s response to what this lady is saying actually is. I believe they will continue to refuse to address her concerns and double down on the attempts to silence her. This will leave the likes of Tommy Robinson as the only people helping her and continue to strengthen the likes of Tommy Robinson. I remember the count dankula trial where a comedian was prosecuted under a UK wide law brought in by the last labour government which criminalised jokes online if someone was grossly offended by them. The case went on and on and gathered more and more publicity creating a sense of outrage against the law. The leftist PC Scottish establishment doubled down and Tommy Robinson got involved towards the end of the case and his support seemed to be welcomed (probably because very few others supported dankula). In the end dankula, a former communist and YouTube comedian with less than a dozen followers when the joke was made, ended up with hundreds of thousands of followers, gave tommy a platform on his channel and joined UKIP. Several other YouTubers followed him (most notably Sargon of Akkad) and UKIP gained over 500 new members. Well done.


I think you're disingenuous. Dankula (twat with a twat's name) deliberately posted a video that he claimed was private setting to be outrageous. "Gas the jews" is not a neutral statement, and he didn't say it once or twice. He said it over and over and over. Just because he's saying it to a dog is irrelevant. That someone thinks such a statement is trivial enough to be guffaw material because "dank memez" shows what kind of a scumbag he is. That he's happy to buddy up with Tommy Robinson, Paul Joseph Mapwanker, Lauren Southern, the repugnant racist Stefan Molyneux and of course Swindon's finest intellectual troll (a man who doesn't take his own 'ideas' seriously') is telling. He wasn't a victim of leftist anti freespeech nazis, he violated a UK wide communications law. I have zero sympathy for him nor cunts like him who think free speech is an excuse to be a massive arsehole.

Dankula was not a communist. He doesn't even understand the word, like the rest of these fuckwits. If people join ukip because of their antics it isn't a failure of free speech, it's because Youtube culture has weaponised ignorance and allowed video game thickos to manufacture outrage for cash. That's the only reason Sargon has any popularity at all: beacuse he jumped on the Gamergate bandwagon to harass and cyberstalk women. These people are cunts and I hope I live long enough to see them all fall into the pit of shit from whence they spawned.

It's also utterly irrelevant to the facts of this case. Robinson broke the terms of his suspended sentence - by doing the exact same thing that he was unequivocally warned by a judge not to do in the first place. He wasn't reporting; calling defendants in an ongoing trial rapists and pedos is not journalism. It's risking a mistrial and it's clearly intended to play to his racist audience base. And of course the people he films are going to react violently - who wouldn't when faced with some thug shoving a camera in their face. (I've no idea if they are guilty, and if they are deal with them appropriately.)


----------



## ddraig (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I would love to see what the left’s response to what this lady is saying actually is. I believe they will continue to refuse to address her concerns and double down on the attempts to silence her. This will leave the likes of Tommy Robinson as the only people helping her and continue to strengthen the likes of Tommy Robinson. I remember the count dankula trial where a comedian was prosecuted under a UK wide law brought in by the last labour government which criminalised jokes online if someone was grossly offended by them. The case went on and on and gathered more and more publicity creating a sense of outrage against the law. The leftist PC Scottish establishment doubled down and Tommy Robinson got involved towards the end of the case and his support seemed to be welcomed (probably because very few others supported dankula). In the end dankula, a former communist and YouTube comedian with less than a dozen followers when the joke was made, ended up with hundreds of thousands of followers, gave tommy a platform on his channel and joined UKIP. Several other YouTubers followed him (most notably Sargon of Akkad) and UKIP gained over 500 new members. Well done.


How is tommeh "helping" that woman, in any way?


----------



## LDC (Jul 24, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> I think you're disingenuous. Dankula (twat with a twat's name) deliberately posted a video that he claimed was private setting to be outrageous. "Gas the jews" is not a neutral statement, and he didn't say it once or twice. He said it over and over and over. Just because he's saying it to a dog is irrelevant. That someone thinks such a statement is trivial enough to be guffaw material because "dank memez" shows what kind of a scumbag he is. That he's happy to buddy up with Tommy Robinson, Paul Joseph Mapwanker, Lauren Southern, the repugnant racist Stefan Molyneux and of course Swindon's finest intellectual troll (a man who doesn't take his own 'ideas' seriously') is telling. He wasn't a victim of leftist anti freespeech nazis, he violated a UK wide communications law. I have zero sympathy for him nor cunts like him who think free speech is an excuse to be a massive arsehole.
> 
> Dankula was not a communist. He doesn't even understand the word, like the rest of these fuckwits. If people join ukip because of their antics it isn't a failure of free speech, it's because Youtube culture has weaponised ignorance and allowed video game thickos to manufacture outrage for cash. That's the only reason Sargon has any popularity at all: beacuse he jumped on the Gamergate bandwagon to harass and cyberstalk women. These people are cunts and I hope I live long enough to see them all fall into the pit of shit from whence they spawned.
> 
> It's also utterly irrelevant to the facts of this case. Robinson broke the terms of his suspended sentence - by doing the exact same thing that he was unequivocally warned by a judge not to do in the first place. He wasn't reporting; calling defendants in an ongoing trial rapists and pedos is not journalism. It's risking a mistrial and it's clearly intended to play to his racist audience base. And of course the people he films are going to react violently - who wouldn't when faced with some thug shoving a camera in their face. (I've no idea if they are guilty, and if they are deal with them appropriately.)



Top rant, 10/10.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 24, 2018)

ddraig said:


> How is tommeh "helping" that woman, in any way?


Quite the opposite I would guess; she'll be fetishised by him and his peers as a totem to vindicate their outrage. Certainly she will get no real help


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 24, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Freeee Tommy Rob in son.



_Paul-Golding-and-Jayda_ would scan a bit better


----------



## treelover (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> *In the end dankula, a former communist and YouTube comedian with less than a dozen followers when the joke was made, ended up with hundreds of thousands of followers, gave tommy a platform on his channel and joined UKIP. Several other YouTubers followed him (most notably Sargon of Akkad) and UKIP gained over 500 new members. Well done.*



Anyone know him in Scotland?, if he was a communist, he would surely have made comments, been on demo's,etc?


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Tommy Robinson will never be right, not even once a day. He's doing time, mind. Which I'm cool with.
> 
> ETA: By "right" I mean "correct", he's clearly a bigot.



I’m afraid on some issues he probably is correct or at least partly correct. In fact it would be pretty difficult to be consistently wrong on everything in exactly the same way as there is no such thing as someone who is always right. Try to see the world as it actually is.

Tommy is despised by the real far right and by the left. By far right I mean the fascist ethno-nationalists, the old BNP types who reject the liberal idea of individual rights and believe in collective or group rights (and thereby believe in collective guilt and collective responsibility) and define the nation by a racial identity. These types have far more in common with the far left than I think they realise though, they are both bigotted (by which I mean intolerant of others having different opinions to themselves) and believe in an extreme form of collectivism. I have heard that the real far right call Tommy a “race traitor” for example as he doesn’t agree with them defining “Britishness” by race. Tommy also said it was wrong of David Cameron to say multi culturalism had failed and that he regarded multi culturalism as a success with the one exception of Islamism which he said was incompatible with western democracy and human rights.

You might find Tommy to be a rather unpleasant character, I find some of the rhetoric pretty unpleasant myself, especially the rhetoric from the EDL which can be particularly nasty, but things are not as straight forward and clear cut as you seem to think. 

I guess the main point I’m making though is while people like Shazia Hobbs continue to have their legitimate concerns ignored and while the left continue to try and silence them, and shutdown hustings and such like, people will continue to see this and see Tommy as a sort of martyr to a legitimate cause. As another poster said it has now reached the point where you have Facebook groups comparing him to Mandela. These feelings will continue to grow until all the issues that Tommy has taken up (including free speech and comedians being prosecuted for jokes) are openly acknowledged and fully debated (without harassment and attempts to silence from the far left) and dealt with by the authorities in a manner that is satisfactory to most people. Until then I expect the movement around tommy to continue to grow, it may even reach the stage of having some parliamentary support rather than just street protests.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 24, 2018)

"Tommy".

is he a friend of yours?


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> . As another poster said it has now reached the point where you have Facebook groups comparing him to Mandela.


Only those written by complete fucking morons whose opinions on anything can safely be disregarded.


----------



## klang (Jul 24, 2018)

...and who is this 'The Left' you keep referring to?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I’m afraid on some issues he probably is correct or at least partly correct. In fact it would be pretty difficult to be consistently wrong on everything in exactly the same way as there is no such thing as someone who is always right. Try to see the world as it actually is.


Perhaps you can outline what these 'some'  things he is probably correct about are?


----------



## agricola (Jul 24, 2018)

treelover said:


> Anyone know him in Scotland?, if he was a communist, he would surely have made comments, been on demo's,etc?



_"Have you bought a Morning Star from this man?"_


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

editor said:


> Only those written by complete fucking morons whose opinions on anything can safely be disregarded.



Well if you want to go ahead and ignore them on everything and see how that goes... I suspect the politicians will all agree with you (with the exception of UKIP) until they realise that these people can vote too and there are now a lot more of them than there ever were before. I’ve heard the same arguments from some of the hardcore Lib Dem remainers in regard to Brexit as it happens. You know how it goes: “they’re all just morons, we know what’s best for everyone else, these working class people people are too stupid to understand what they voted for and got the answer wrong so their opinions should be ignored etc...”. I don’t see that working out very well in the long term but there you go.


----------



## Edie (Jul 24, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Perhaps you can outline what these 'some'  things he is probably correct about?


Well he’s correct that Sadiq Khan shouldn’t of described that woman’s tweet as hate speech for example.


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Well if you want to go ahead and ignore them on everything and see how that goes...


I remain very comfortable ignoring anyone who is so politically naive, ill informed and ignorant that they think there is any kind of meaningful comparison to be found between Robinson and Nelson Mandela. Facebook is full of all sorts of tiny fringe groups espousing all sorts of ludicrous theories, fads and fancies. I'm curious why you think this one is even worth mentioning. How many members does it have? Please enlighten me.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 24, 2018)

Edie said:


> Well he’s correct that Sadiq Khan shouldn’t of described that woman’s tweet as hate speech for example.


what woman and what tweet?


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

agricola said:


> _"Have you bought a Morning Star from this man?"_



Here’s a picture of 16 year old idealistic communist dankula  he’s even still got his communist star tattoo. It’s not uncommon to have been far left in ones youth in Scotland, I was a committed member of the old SSP myself in my early 20’s before the split caused by the Tommy Sheridan liable triaI. I campaigned hard in the streets for socialism for many years and now reject the far left having seen where the mindset leads. I have no trouble believing dankula was the same as me once although I’m considerably older than him.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 24, 2018)

ddraig said:


> How is tommeh "helping" that woman, in any way?


Rsf ?


----------



## Edie (Jul 24, 2018)

ddraig said:


> what woman and what tweet?


Shazia Hobbs.

Have you actually watched any of his videos?


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 24, 2018)

treelover said:


> Anyone know him in Scotland?, if he was a communist, he would surely have made comments, been on demo's,etc?


He's on record as wanted antifa banned, he even started a petition to that end

EDIT: I am incorrect about the latter


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I’m afraid on some issues he probably is correct or at least partly correct. In fact it would be pretty difficult to be consistently wrong on everything in exactly the same way as there is no such thing as someone who is always right. Try to see the world as it actually is.
> 
> Tommy is despised by the real far right and by the left. By far right I mean the fascist ethno-nationalists, the old BNP types who reject the liberal idea of individual rights and believe in collective or group rights (and thereby believe in collective guilt and collective responsibility) and define the nation by a racial identity. These types have far more in common with the far left than I think they realise though, they are both bigotted (by which I mean intolerant of others having different opinions to themselves) and believe in an extreme form of collectivism. I have heard that the real far right call Tommy a “race traitor” for example as he doesn’t agree with them defining “Britishness” by race. Tommy also said it was wrong of David Cameron to say multi culturalism had failed and that he regarded multi culturalism as a success with the one exception of Islamism which he said was incompatible with western democracy and human rights.
> 
> ...


Is this the "tommy is hated by libtards as well as fascists...so he must be doing something right!" argument?

Who has tried to shut down Shazia Hobbs? What hustings? Citations needed please.

He's an unpleasant character because he's a vessel for fascist interests.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2018)

I've summarised your reply as it's a bit long



Rsf said:


> Try to see the world as it actually is...Tommy... By far right I mean the fascist ethno-nationalists...These types... the far left ... they are both bigotted ... the real far right ...Tommy ... Tommy also said ...Tommy... things are not as straight forward and clear cut as you seem to think...the left continue to try and silence them... Tommy .. the issues that Tommy has taken ..attempts to silence from the far left.. the movement around tommy ...


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> He's on record as wanted antifa banned, he even started a petition to that end



Did he? Does he explain in the text of his petition why they should be banned? Can you post a link and the text of this petition. When I talk about the far left I mainly mean the Corbyn labour types and the SSP and SWP and such like, and when I say left I mean labour pre Corbyn the SNP, the Lib Dem’s, the Greens etc. I don’t really know anything about ANTIFA to be honest and have never met anyone in it.


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## ddraig (Jul 24, 2018)

Edie said:


> Shazia Hobbs.
> 
> Have you actually watched any of his videos?


Still no tweet?
Whose videos? Sadiq Khan?


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## ddraig (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Did he? Does he explain in the text of his petition why they should be banned? Can you post a link and the text of this petition. When I talk about the far left I mainly mean the Corbyn labour types and the SSP and SWP and such like, and when I say left I mean labour pre Corbyn the SNP, the Lib Dem’s, the Greens etc. I don’t really know anything about ANTIFA to be honest and have never met anyone in it.


are you going to clarify your posts or just deflect with questions?


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## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Did he? Does he explain in the text of his petition why they should be banned? Can you post a link and the text of this petition. When I talk about the far left I mainly mean the Corbyn labour types and the SSP and SWP and such like, and when I say left I mean labour pre Corbyn the SNP, the Lib Dem’s, the Greens etc. I don’t really know anything about ANTIFA to be honest and have never met anyone in it.



New Labour, the Libs - these are hardly "left". 

What's "Tommy" saying that's so agreeable to you?


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## Edie (Jul 24, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Still no tweet?
> Whose videos? Sadiq Khan?


Have you actually read any of the last two pages of this thread


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## existentialist (Jul 24, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I thought you were done with this site beavis?
> 
> Look, the left isn't part of the life of the people behind the TR stuff in any way except as a lecturing teacher or careerist two faced wanker. The left as left simply doesn't exist apart from as something to kick against - historical mis-identification and so on aside. So demanding that 'the left' wave a magic wand and and somehow sort all of this out is nonsense - and you know it. And your patent dishonesty in this is part of why this gap between w/c people and the left has developed - people like you in their ear all the time saying _yes, the left is your enemy, they have never done and never will do anything for you_ - despite the (idealised) conditions that the EDL and similar responses are an inchoate demand to return to - being substantially due to the actions of the historic left. *You are poisoning the ground for any hopeful or useful future movement and you damn well know it.*


Do you think he's actually that influential? I only have to read a few posts in P&P to be reminded of how exquisitely politically naive I am, but even I in my naivety can see only handwaving and boiler plate posturing in the post you quote, once you take out all the surplus verbiage...


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## Ralph Llama (Jul 24, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> It may be true that we haven't had one in this country, but the claim that this wasn't once the motivation of several generations of politicians and activists all across Europe and elsewhere, dragging hundreds of millions of predominently working class people behind them, is absurd. Whether they succeeded in 'abolishing market relations' is another matter, but it was certainly the aim.
> 
> But the era of socialist revolution, or whatever you want to call it, ended in 1989, with the idea of 'abolishing market relations' relegated to the margins of political discourse. Once this happened, the rise of the populist right, and the left's primary focus on the more manageable ideas of identity politics was inevitable. However unpalatable, the former clearly appears to have more relevance to many of the forgotten and dispossessed elements of the working class than a left that increasingly appears (or at least is easily presented as such) to represent nothing more than a shrill argument among middle class radicals.
> 
> Furthermore, while the age-old struggle between capital and labour goes on relentlessly, the idea of 'abolishing market relations' remains off the agenda for any foreseeable future, and the working class has little to put faith in even when it comes to the basics.




Need to give them something then. Or... we need to give ourselves something to have faith in, because the working classes are turning to fascism simply through lack of option.


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## ddraig (Jul 24, 2018)

Edie said:


> Have you actually read any of the last two pages of this thread


yes
you mention a tweet but don't link to it and ask if i've watched some videos so I asked who's videos

e2a, gone back 3 pages, no links to tweets and not clear whose videos you mean


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Did anything happen with his appeal? That was last wednesday I thought - but I think it had reporting restrictions of its own on it because it's related to the trials he disrupted. The only thing I've seen was that he might now have been reported for other instances of contempt - but my source for that was a blog that can sometimes be a bit overexcited and I can't even find that now. 

I suppose his appeal was heard and unless he was released we wouldn't hear anything...?


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## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Did anything happen with his appeal? That was last wednesday I thought - but I think it had reporting restrictions of its own on it because it's related to the trials he disrupted. The only thing I've seen was that he might now have been reported for other instances of contempt - but my source for that was a blog that can sometimes be a bit overexcited and I can't even find that now.
> 
> I suppose his appeal was heard and unless he was released we wouldn't hear anything...?


They are to try and give a result by the end of the month.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Thank you. 

I hope he converts to Islam while inside. It's not uncommon I believe. And it would be funny.


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## klang (Jul 24, 2018)

(((islam)))


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## Toast Rider (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Did he? Does he explain in the text of his petition why they should be banned? Can you post a link and the text of this petition. When I talk about the far left I mainly mean the Corbyn labour types and the SSP and SWP and such like, and when I say left I mean labour pre Corbyn the SNP, the Lib Dem’s, the Greens etc. I don’t really know anything about ANTIFA to be honest and have never met anyone in it.


I retract the claim he started the petition as I think i've mixed it up with someone else.

However he is on record as regarding antifa as thugs because...free speech


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

It was Count Dankula (now of UKIP) who started the petition but I'm sure you can find Robinson arguing for all sorts of crackdowns on free speech easily enough. Not least, of course, the free speech of Muslims. Even "Muslim hate preachers" should be allowed a platform if these "free speech absolutists" are what they say they are (which they aren't). They would defeat such speech in the Free Market Place of Ideas. If you're a student you should Invite ISIS to your university.


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## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

ddraig said:


> are you going to clarify your posts or just deflect with questions?



Sorry I’m not trying to be obstructive. Someone said dankula wanted a group banned, since I know virtually nothing about this group other than they claim to be anti fascist I asked what reasons he gave for wanting them banned. I.e did he have a legitimate and logical reason for wanting them banned? Did he want them banned for criminal actions that they intend to commit or because he didn’t like their opinions? Everyone should be allowed to have their opinions but some groups go beyond that and should be banned.


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## ElizabethofYork (Jul 24, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Quite the opposite I would guess; she'll be fetishised by him and his peers as a totem to vindicate their outrage. Certainly she will get no real help



That's exactly what is happening.  She features in several of "Tommy" and his chums' blogs and webpages.


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## ddraig (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Sorry I’m not trying to be obstructive. Someone said dankula wanted a group banned, since I know virtually nothing about this group other than they claim to be anti fascist I asked what reasons he gave for wanting them banned. I.e did he have a legitimate and logical reason for wanting them banned? Did he want them banned for criminal actions that they intend to commit or because he didn’t like their opinions? Everyone should be allowed to have their opinions but some groups go beyond that and should be banned.


So, again, how is tommeh helping that woman in any way? as you claimed


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## Ralph Llama (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Well if you want to go ahead and ignore them on everything and see how that goes... I suspect the politicians will all agree with you (with the exception of UKIP) until they realise that these people can vote too and there are now a lot more of them than there ever were before. I’ve heard the same arguments from some of the hardcore Lib Dem remainers in regard to Brexit as it happens. *You know how it goes: “they’re all just morons, we know what’s best for everyone else, these working class people people are too stupid to understand what they voted for and got the answer wrong so their opinions should be ignored etc...”. *I don’t see that working out very well in the long term but there you go.



See how they are playing the class card strongly? This is appealing to a lot of working class now.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)




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## Toast Rider (Jul 24, 2018)

ElizabethofYork said:


> That's exactly what is happening.  She features in several of "Tommy" and his chums' blogs and webpages.


and yet when another muslim was set to speak at the 'day of freedom' he got bullied off. He was even invited.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Actual anti-ISIS activist: 

Briton killed fighting with Kurdish unit 

Ooh, from "the left" as well. 

What has Yaxley Lennon ever actually done about terrorism or radicalisation? Has he ever even so much as tweeted out a terrorism hotline number or how to share information with the police or a way of raising concerns about someone being radicalised? 

The whole thing is a con. A lovely profitable con with very sinister effects.


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## Ralph Llama (Jul 24, 2018)

*Greek Anarchist Fighting ISIS in Syria Speaks Out | GreekReporter.com*


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## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> It was Count Dankula (now of UKIP) who started the petition but I'm sure you can find Robinson arguing for all sorts of crackdowns on free speech easily enough. Not least, of course, the free speech of Muslims. Even "Muslim hate preachers" should be allowed a platform if these "free speech absolutists" are what they say they are (which they aren't). They would defeat such speech in the Free Market Place of Ideas. If you're a student you should Invite ISIS to your university.



You cannot invite ISIS to speak at a university in the same way you cannot invite national action to a university. The reason is membership of those groups is illegal as is promoting them. These groups are not illegal because of their members mere “opinions” but because they intended to commit and encouraged others to commit violent criminal acts. Threatening to commit criminal acts or trying to get others to commit criminal acts is not free speech in exactly the same way as conspiring to commit a crime is illegal in and of itself and the police don’t need to wait until you actually do it before taking action if they can prove you intend to do it. This would still be the case in the USA with their first amendment which is what these free speech advocates want. So no it’s not legitimate to let ISIS speak at a university and both ISIS and national action were rightly banned. It would however be legitimate to let the BNP speak at a university, repugnant as they are. And if the BNP were to speak at a university you wouldn’t need a left wing censorship mob to “shut it down”, the students at the speech would see their ideas for the horrible intellectual dog shit they are.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> You cannot invite ISIS to speak at a university in the same way you cannot invite national action to a university. The reason is membership of those groups is illegal as is promoting them. These groups are not illegal because of their members mere “opinions” but because they intended to commit and encouraged others to commit violent criminal acts. Threatening to commit criminal acts or trying to get others to commit criminal acts is not free speech in exactly the same way as conspiring to commit a crime is illegal in and of itself and the police don’t need to wait until you actually do it before taking action if they can prove you intend to do it. This would still be the case in the USA with their first amendment which is what these free speech advocates want. So no it’s not legitimate to let ISIS speak at a university and both ISIS and national action were rightly banned. It would however be legitimate to let the BNP speak at a university, repugnant as they are. And if the BNP were to speak at a university you wouldn’t need a left wing censorship mob to “shut it down”, the students at the speech would see their ideas for the horrible intellectual dog shit they are.



I was being facetious there to a point.*

But not entirely. I've seen plenty of of Free Speech Absolutists who are exactly that. As long as its not some "fire in a crowded theatre" thing or a direct and provable incitement to immediate violence that they're OK with it. Robinson failed to allow a Muslim to speak at his free speech rally.

No platforming is a big and complex debate, and I'm not 100% sure where I stand on it. . .

*As I should have made clearer.  

(EDITED to add a missed word and explain my facetiousness more clearly.)


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## Toast Rider (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> It was Count Dankula (now of UKIP) who started the petition but I'm sure you can find Robinson arguing for all sorts of crackdowns on free speech easily enough. Not least, of course, the free speech of Muslims. Even "Muslim hate preachers" should be allowed a platform if these "free speech absolutists" are what they say they are (which they aren't). They would defeat such speech in the Free Market Place of Ideas. If you're a student you should Invite ISIS to your university.


Was it actually him? I had a notion it was, but i couldn't be sure so i retracted it.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Oh bugger - I'm not being very forensic today! 

I've seen it ascribed to him and had accepted that, but now that I search (quickly) I can't find an actual link. He has certainly promoted and responded to a petition to have AntiFa treated as a terrorist organisation. I'll have more of a dig - Mike Stuchbery on Twitter did a lot of Dankula talk, he might be worth a look if you're time rich!


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## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

ddraig said:


> So, again, how is tommeh helping that woman in any way? as you claimed



Well he was listening to her genuine concerns and giving her a platform to air those concerns as opposed to accusing her of hate speech for even daring to mention FGM and trying to have her silenced. Don’t get me wrong, it would be far better if Sadiq Khan were listen to her instead of tommy because Sadiq is actually in a position to do something about it. But until the establishment are going to listen I’d say the likes of Tommy are pretty much all she’s got.


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## klang (Jul 24, 2018)

enter Sadiq! sterling!


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Dano1979: Sadiq Khan Did Not Label Shazia Hobbs As A Hate Preacher Nor Did He Name Her


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## Treacle Toes (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> But until the establishment are going to listen I’d say the likes of Tommy are pretty much all she’s got.



Good grief. Do you really believe this? Do you actually believe that she is anything but a pawn and being used by his ilk? Do you really think that they would give her the time of day if they couldn't use her concerns as mileage/a stick to beat Sadiq/Islam with?


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## ddraig (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Well he was listening to her genuine concerns and giving her a platform to air those concerns as opposed to accusing her of hate speech for even daring to mention FGM and trying to have her silenced. Don’t get me wrong, it would be far better if Sadiq Khan were listen to her instead of tommy because Sadiq is actually in a position to do something about it. But until the establishment are going to listen I’d say the likes of Tommy are pretty much all she’s got.


so beyond "listening" and "airing" what good is tommeh going to do? how is he going to change anything?
he only cares about himself, his ego and bank balance and will use anyone including victims of grooming and rape and the woman to furhter his self interest
The woman is able to voice her "genuine concerns" aren't they? who is accusing them of hate speech and having her silenced?


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

She's also a corespondent for ALTNEWSMEDIA. A site my browser won't let me look at because it says its "insecure" (Firefox), though I can see from Google snippets that it seems to be connected to David Vance, social media charmer.


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## Edie (Jul 24, 2018)

Edie said:


> The way TR uses the free speech line is really very clever. Look at this interview with Shazia Hobbs. Here’s a woman who is concerned about forced marriage, FGM and the abuse of Muslim children. She was accused by Sadiq Khan of hate speech when raising the issue. The point TR makes is that if you raise concerns about ‘cultural practices’ like FGM, forced marriage, honour killings then you are silenced by the left, by the establishment, by being called a racist.
> 
> This of course completely ignore the fact that many in Muslim communities are opposed to, and organise against, those practices. But TR doesn’t care, he can use ‘free speech’ to mean free to be racist and present it as being on the side of justice.



ddraig 

This post, about this woman, and Sadiqs tweet in response to her is what’s being discussed.


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## ddraig (Jul 24, 2018)

ta


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## Edie (Jul 24, 2018)

ddraig said:


> ta


Had you not even read it?


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## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

Edie said:


> Can I ask a question (please don’t shout me down). This TR movement seems to be wrapping understandable anger about grooming, and terrorism, and anger towards the elite, in a free speech cloak.... Where the fuck is Corbyn



You know the fact that you even have to ask to please NOT be shouted down should tell you a lot... 

As for Corbyn, not sure about him personally but I’m pretty the Labour Party demoted and silenced Sarah Champion (by all accounts a good decent MP who genuinely wanted to help vulnerable and abused children) for daring to speak about it to the press, what did Corbyn have to say about that? While an MP who re-tweeted an Owen Jones parody account saying the victims of child grooming should shut their mouths for the sake of diversity was quickly forgiven then promoted. To be fair Naz Shah deleted the re-tweet and said it was a mistake for which she was sorry, but had a centre right MP re-tweeted something that was racist by accident I doubt there would be so much forgiveness followed by a promotion.


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## killer b (Jul 24, 2018)

Champion didn't 'talk about it to the press', she wrote a lengthy article about it in inflamatory terms in a newspaper that regularly calls her boss a terrorist. 

I'm not sure if she should have been sacked tbh, but at least get what she did right.


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## Edie (Jul 24, 2018)

The shouting down comment was just because I’m not as knowledgeable about this stuff, i should of phrased it as ‘correct me if I’m wrong’ really. 

But I think it is telling that Corbyn has said nothing about it, or May, or Vince Cable. Easier to ignore it than look at the politics that underlie it I think?


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

In August 2017, on BBC Radio 4's _Today_ programme she asserted that "more people are afraid to be called a racist than they are afraid to be wrong about calling out child abuse".[29] Her statements were followed by an opinion piece for _The Sun_ titled "British Pakistani men ARE raping and exploiting white girls ... and it’s time we faced up to it".[30][31] The article went on to suggest that "Britain has a problem with British Pakistani men raping and exploiting white girls".[32] Fellow Labour MP Naz Shah criticised Champion's statements, describing the headline as incendiary and irresponsible, and arguing that 90% of child sexual abusers were white men.[33]

A few days later, Champion distanced herself from _The Sun_ article, which she said should "not have gone out in my name", asserting that beginning of the article had been altered by the newspaper's staff resulting in the piece being "stripped of nuance". The newspaper said the article's final form had been approved by her team,[34] and later produced an email from one of her aides confirming she was actually "thrilled" by the article.[35] Champion resigned from her post on 16 August 2017.[32]


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## Toast Rider (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Dano1979: Sadiq Khan Did Not Label Shazia Hobbs As A Hate Preacher Nor Did He Name Her


This video?


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

He's reading out nasty tweets - it's an established sub-genre of viral video, sadly! 

I believe that is the video referenced in that blog post, yes.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Incidentally, this is good: 

Grooming Gangs: Quilliam & the Myth of the 84 Percent


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## Toast Rider (Jul 24, 2018)

Actually I think it was this:



He reads out the handles but of course that doesn't directly identify the person behind them. So i've no idea whether any of those tweets he reads out are from her. But then if you're posting this shit, you're already doing it publicly and can't complain.


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## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

DownwardDog said:


> It's a class issue not a race issue. If they had been abusing girls from Roedean they would have been locked up immediately.



A lot of truth in that. Privileged champagne socialists like the Labour Party have contempt for the working class and see them as a voter block they can take for granted, they have contempt for the working class and hate the super rich. The Tories and the Lib Dem’s have no time for the working class either, they see them as people they need to “educate” to have the correct “acceptable” opinions, not people whose opinions they need to listen to and represent and consider. The field is wide open for UKIP...


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## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> A lot of truth in that. Privileged champagne socialists like the Labour Party have contempt for the working class and see them as a voter block they can take for granted, they have contempt for the working class and hate the super rich. The Tories and the Lib Dem’s have no time for the working class either, they see them as people they need to “educate” to have the correct “acceptable” opinions, not people whose opinions they need to listen to and represent and consider. The field is wide open for UKIP...



What opinions does Stephen Christopher Yaxley Lennon hold that would represent you?


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Your contention is that UKIP is the party that most respects the working class of the UK and best represents their interests? 

Would that be an astroturf field?


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## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Incidentally, this is good:
> 
> Grooming Gangs: Quilliam & the Myth of the 84 Percent



Quilliam are a highly reputable anti extremist organisation that I certainly would trust. Quilliam are part of the solution, extremism is harmful but facts must be faced. Articles trying to explain it all away and say there isn’t a specific problem isn’t likely to help in my opinion. But I don’t believe the left are capable of facing reality so the Robinson/UKIP lot will only continue to grow, I think.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Quilliam are a highly reputable anti extremist organisation that I certainly would trust. Quilliam are part of the solution, extremism is harmful but facts must be faced. Articles trying to explain it all away and say there isn’t a specific problem isn’t likely to help in my opinion. But I don’t believe the left are capable of facing reality so the Robinson/UKIP lot will only continue to grow, I think.



What _left_ and what _reality_?


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Quilliam are a highly reputable anti extremist organisation that I certainly would trust. Quilliam are part of the solution, extremism is harmful but facts must be faced. Articles trying to explain it all away and say there isn’t a specific problem isn’t likely to help in my opinion. But I don’t believe the left are capable of facing reality so the Robinson/UKIP lot will only continue to grow, I think.



Except they're not are they because they published a report that was FULL OF LIES. If you trust them in this matter then you are fooling yourself and anyone else you make that case too.


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## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Your contention is that UKIP is the party that most respects the working class of the UK and best represents their interests?
> 
> Would that be an astroturf field?



I don’t know if UKIPs policies would actually help the working class much but I’m not even sure what they all are. I’m saying that the establishment have contempt for the working class, the working class are realising this and the centre ground of politics is collapsing, there are openings.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Neil Hamilton.


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## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Except they're not are they because they published a report that was FULL OF LIES. If you trust them in this matter then you are fooling yourself and anyone else you make that case too.



I mean this in the nicest possible way but I think that you just want that to be true and whatever the facts were you would find a way of rationalising that this were so. Majid Nawaz has done more than most to make this country a better place, he’s certainly not a bigot out to blame his own community unfairly. He’s a decent British liberal who always tries to live up to his own principles.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Read the report I linked.


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## killer b (Jul 24, 2018)

this guy.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Don't patronise me.


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## killer b (Jul 24, 2018)

I didn't mean you!


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

I know. And I meant that to Rsf, who is plainly here recruiting and might as well just post whatever "join now" or "donate here" link they have saved up. . .


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

And I meant it in the nicest possible way.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I mean this in the nicest possible way but I think that you just want that to be true and whatever the facts were you would find a way of rationalising that this were so. Majid Nawaz has done more than most to make this country a better place, he’s certainly not a bigot out to blame his own community unfairly. He’s a decent British liberal who always tries to live up to his own principles.



Ah. Is this the, er, _left_ facing up to the _reality_ you mentioned?


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## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> What opinions does Stephen Christopher Yaxley Lennon hold that would represent you?



Well I’m as working class as they come I guess. But I don’t dislike middle or upper class people for simply being who they are. I despise the institutional discrimination there is against the working class though, if Tommy Robinson sounded more like Douglas Murray the media would not have treated him the way they have. From my point of view Tommy Robinson has done two things I approve of and quite a bit wrong. In 2011(ish) he went on a BBC interview with Jeremy Paxman and revealed that grooming gangs were abusing kids and councillors and police officers were conspiring to keep it a secret. I commend him for revealing that at a time when it was still being covered up. I also appreciate him highlighting the double standards with free speech and the lack of free speech. I want politicans to fix these issues, prosecute those who conspired to hide the grooming gangs, and create something like the USAs first amendment here. MPs have to do this, not mobs on the streets, so I never attend demonstrations.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Well I’m as working class as they come I guess. But I don’t dislike middle or upper class people for simply being who they are. I despise the institutional discrimination there is against the working class though, if Tommy Robinson sounded more like Douglas Murray the media would not have treated him the way they have. From my point of view Tommy Robinson has done two things I approve of and quite a bit wrong. In 2011(ish) he went on a BBC interview with Jeremy Paxman and revealed that grooming gangs were abusing kids and councillors and police officers were conspiring to keep it a secret. I commend him for revealing that at a time when it was still being covered up. I also appreciate him highlighting the double standards with free speech and the lack of free speech. I want politicans to fix these issues, prosecute those who conspired to hide the grooming gangs, and create something like the USAs first amendment here. MPs have to do this, not mobs on the streets, so I never attend demonstrations.



Why did he try and fuck up the trials, then, would you say? I'm not entirely sure who was benefiting from that. And I'm not sure at all that he's the answer to all the problems and discrimination that the w/c class face. In fact, I'm sure that many, many w/c class see right through his act.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

He didn't "reveal" that, he read it in The Times. 

Making a Monster: How The Times Created the Asian ‘Grooming Gang’


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## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> And I meant it in the nicest possible way.



Yeah, I thought it might annoy you but I had to say it. I don’t mean it to sound patronising but how else does one say such things? I’ll try and tone the assholeness down now....


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## 8ball (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> ...he’s a decent British liberal...



That be fighting talk round these parts.


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## teqniq (Jul 24, 2018)

Quilliam, reputable lol. If you say so.


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## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Why did he try and fuck up the trials, then, would you say? I'm not entirely sure who was benefiting from that. And I'm not sure at all that he's the answer to all the problems and discrimination that the w/c class face. In fact, I'm sure that many, many w/c class see right through his act.


Because he’s either naive or a gambler/chancer who isn’t afraid to sail close to the wind I suppose. I doubt he was some evil four d chess player who planned to cause a mistrial and generate public outrage as part of a master plan. I’d guess that he thought if he asked the coppers if it was ok to film there and they said yes and if he didn’t say anything that hadn’t already appeared in the press he was safe. He was wrong. I think he also thought because some of them were turning up for sentencing that day he couldn’t cause a mistrial, he was wrong about that too and I think only some verdicts were reached by that point.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

8ball said:


> That be fighting talk round these parts.



Haha is it now... Well for what it’s worth I don’t agree with everything he says either. I don’t agree with Majid’s internationalism. I agree with him on secularism, free speech (even for “vile” opinions providing they are not encouraging people to do something illegal) and individual human rights. But someone having different opinions to me doesn’t mean they are not a decent person, only totalitarian bigots think like that


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Because he’s either naive or a gambler/chancer who isn’t afraid to sail close to the wind I suppose. I doubt he was some evil four d chess player who planned to cause a mistrial and generate public outrage as part of a master plan.



And yet, it's turned out remarkably well for him. He's practically a martyr and there's not just domestic, but international support for the guy.

I'd say there's quite a bit of the gambler/chancer and sailor/chess player about him and his advisers.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> ...but someone having different opinions to me doesn’t mean they are not a decent person, only totalitarian bigots think like that



New guy, eh?


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

That "Regressive Left" account on Medium is quite good:

A Challenge To Quilliam: Publish Your Evidence For Your Mythical “84%”


----------



## existentialist (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Because he’s either naive or a gambler/chancer who isn’t afraid to sail close to the wind I suppose. I doubt he was some evil four d chess player who planned to cause a mistrial and generate public outrage as part of a master plan. I’d guess that he thought if he asked the coppers if it was ok to film there and they said yes and if he didn’t say anything that hadn’t already appeared in the press he was safe. He was wrong. I think he also thought because some of them were turning up for sentencing that day he couldn’t cause a mistrial, he was wrong about that too and I think only some verdicts were reached by that point.


You've worked hard at this, I'll give you that...


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Mmm. 

Maajid Nawaz’s Duplicity Feeds The Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories Against Him


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2018)

The odd quilliam thing that hasn't been noticed.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Mmm.
> 
> Maajid Nawaz’s Duplicity Feeds The Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories Against Him



I knew the far right hated Maajid Nawaz, but thanks to this site I’ve now learned that the far left have no time for him either. I shouldn’t be surprised I suppose, as I said earlier the far left and far right have a lot in common with one and other. I imagine the Islamists hate him too because he was once one of them and is now devoting his time to countering extremism in all forms. I have a lot of respect for the man.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

Th


butchersapron said:


> The odd quilliam thing that hasn't been noticed.



Thanks for the link, so the southern poverty law centre have given Maajid’s foundation over 3 million quid. Nice. Didn’t realise his work was so well funded. Never heard of the Southern Poverty Law Center before, do they make a habit of throwing such accusations around? Or was this just a one off? I always thought throwing such accusations around was a far left thing, the more these accusations are thrown the less they mean.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Those links are about specific things that Quilliam has published and specific things it has done or that Mr Nawaz has said. It's not hating him. 

I haven't shared anything from the SPLC. That's a big settlement.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

The SPLC have a bit of an iffy rep with some people. . .


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Mmm.
> 
> Maajid Nawaz’s Duplicity Feeds The Right-Wing Conspiracy Theories Against Him


Is this an Onion type satire website? Are you just taking the piss now?


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Plainly not.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

Well I think it would be pretty much impossible to satirise it. I think in five years time if you go back and read an article like that you might see it rather differently.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

Well, we'll meet again in five years then. I think you're wrong. It seems quite well referenced to me.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 24, 2018)




----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Is this an Onion type satire website? Are you just taking the piss now?


The Self-Invention of Maajid Nawaz: Fact and Fiction in the Life of the Counter-Terror Celebrity


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 24, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> There are posters on some appalling fb groups who seem to be mounting s subtle campaign to liken him to nelson Mandela. Seriously


Behold:

uMkhonto we Therspoons


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> He didn't "reveal" that, he read it in The Times.
> 
> Making a Monster: How The Times Created the Asian ‘Grooming Gang’



See. This is so far off reality I don’t even know the words, it just seems to me to be so, well, warped is the best word I can think of. Mental gymnastics... The Times didn’t “create” Asian grooming gangs, the Times didn’t create anything. The Times reported the facts about what was actually happening and did nothing to cause anything that was happening to happen. In fact, I would say that the Times reporting this is a perfect example of a free press doing exactly what a free press are supposed to be doing, informing the public, speaking truth to power and holding those in power to account. Here is a short video of the reporter who wrote these stories talking about what he did and how he came to do it  watch that and tell me the Times created anything.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 24, 2018)

You're picking up in the headline - completely over literally - and ignoring the substance of the article. 

Norfolk has subsequently gone on to create stuff around Muslims: 

Complaint upheld over Times story about girl fostered by Muslims 

The linked article includes plenty of actual material that explains what it thinks the Times did. As you have done with all the previous links you just throw your hands up and start throwing shocked insults around. I hope if anyone is following this they'll read the links and make up their own minds.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

“I hope if anyone is following this they'll read the links and make up their own minds.”

I hope so too. I hope people read the thread, watch the Andrew Norfolk video, read the links you kindly provided and then make up their own minds. But saying that I’m pretty sure I know what the average person would make of it all if they choose to invest the time and effort to do just that. It’s unlikely that many people will though. But if anyone comes across this site by accident and sees this I hope they register and tell us their thoughts...


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 24, 2018)




----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 24, 2018)

Rsf said:


> But if anyone comes across this site by accident and sees this I hope they register and tell us their thoughts...



Right. Okay.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 24, 2018)

register to what Rsf?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 24, 2018)

The left made this prick.

How to reconnect with the w/c is good.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 24, 2018)

the left, after the last 6 years of British politics?

tbf longer


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 24, 2018)

and in fighting about the maastricht treaty has nothing to do with this shit show .


----------



## Rsf (Jul 24, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> I know. And I meant that to Rsf, who is plainly here recruiting and might as well just post whatever "join now" or "donate here" link they have saved up. . .


 
Just decided to respond to this. I’m not recruiting for anything and have no intention of asking anyone here for anything. My ‘agenda’ if you could call it that, I.e, what I would actually like to see happening is I would like to see the UK adopt something like a USA style first amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech in this country. I would like to see the political left and right wings treated in exactly the same way by the authorities as I believe everyone should be equal before the law and believe we should have have a truly non-political police force and an impartial criminal justice system. As the woman about four minutes into the bbc news night report that someone linked to earlier said it’s pretty clear that it is one rule for one group and another rule for others in practice. Despite being on the political left for years I now regard the Labour Party as a pretty despicable, anti working class party and don’t think much more of the tories or Lib Dem’s. I want to make working class people like me aware that labour are filled top to bottom with champagne socialists who despise the working class and think they are thick and that socialism doesn’t work anyway (a poster here already sussed this ‘agenda’ of mine). I want the powers that be to face up to the grooming gang scandals and not just prosecute those who did it but also hold those who allowed it to go on to account because the entire thing sickens me and I’m really really angry about it. I’m a father myself and to think that if something happened to make my family vulnerable that the authorities could allow that to happen to my child makes me so angry I don’t even know how to put it into words. I believe the fact these things are not being done is why Tommy Robinson is now as prominent as he is and why his support is growing. Oh and I’d also like it if the far left could not behave like a bunch of fascist thugs and attempt to shutdown debates and hustings and such like but I doubt there is much chance of that one.

So yeah, thinking about it, Tommy Robinson doesn’t come across as a particularly pleasant chap at times (certainly some of his past isn’t exactly endearing), sure he broke the law and is a criminal if me saying that makes anyone feel any better, but as Steve Bannon was alleged to have said he’s better than all our establishment elites put together to put it a bit more politely.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 24, 2018)




----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Just decided to respond to this. I’m not recruiting for anything and have no intention of asking anyone here for anything. My ‘agenda’ if you could call it that, I.e, what I would actually like to see happening is I would like to see the UK adopt something like a USA style first amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech in this country. I would like to see the political left and right wings treated in exactly the same way by the authorities as I believe everyone should be equal before the law and believe we should have have a truly non-political police force and an impartial criminal justice system. As the woman about four minutes into the bbc news night report that someone linked to earlier said it’s pretty clear that it is one rule for one group and another rule for others in practice. Despite being on the political left for years I now regard the Labour Party as a pretty despicable, anti working class party and don’t think much more of the tories or Lib Dem’s. I want to make working class people like me aware that labour are filled top to bottom with champagne socialists who despise the working class and think they are thick and that socialism doesn’t work anyway (a poster here already sussed this ‘agenda’ of mine). I want the powers that be to face up to the grooming gang scandals and not just prosecute those who did it but also hold those who allowed it to go on to account because the entire thing sickens me and I’m really really angry about it. I’m a father myself and to think that if something happened to make my family vulnerable that the authorities could allow that to happen to my child makes me so angry I don’t even know how to put it into words. I believe the fact these things are not being done is why Tommy Robinson is now as prominent as he is and why his support is growing. Oh and I’d also like it if the far left could not behave like a bunch of fascist thugs and attempt to shutdown debates and hustings and such like but I doubt there is much chance of that one.
> 
> So yeah, thinking about it, Tommy Robinson doesn’t come across as a particularly pleasant chap at times (certainly some of his past isn’t exactly endearing), sure he broke the law and is a criminal if me saying that makes anyone feel any better, but as Steve Bannon was alleged to have said he’s better than all our establishment elites put together to put it a bit more politely.



Steve fucking Bannon, now


----------



## teqniq (Jul 25, 2018)

Steve Bannon has plans for Europe now and if this clown is regarding his alleged utterings favourably I think that's all I really need to know.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Just decided to respond to this. I’m not recruiting for anything and have no intention of asking anyone here for anything. My ‘agenda’ if you could call it that, I.e, what I would actually like to see happening is I would like to see the UK adopt something like a USA style first amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech in this country. I would like to see the political left and right wings treated in exactly the same way by the authorities as I believe everyone should be equal before the law and believe we should have have a truly non-political police force and an impartial criminal justice system. As the woman about four minutes into the bbc news night report that someone linked to earlier said it’s pretty clear that it is one rule for one group and another rule for others in practice. Despite being on the political left for years I now regard the Labour Party as a pretty despicable, anti working class party and don’t think much more of the tories or Lib Dem’s. I want to make working class people like me aware that labour are filled top to bottom with champagne socialists who despise the working class and think they are thick and that socialism doesn’t work anyway (a poster here already sussed this ‘agenda’ of mine). I want the powers that be to face up to the grooming gang scandals and not just prosecute those who did it but also hold those who allowed it to go on to account because the entire thing sickens me and I’m really really angry about it. I’m a father myself and to think that if something happened to make my family vulnerable that the authorities could allow that to happen to my child makes me so angry I don’t even know how to put it into words. I believe the fact these things are not being done is why Tommy Robinson is now as prominent as he is and why his support is growing. Oh and I’d also like it if the far left could not behave like a bunch of fascist thugs and attempt to shutdown debates and hustings and such like but I doubt there is much chance of that one.
> 
> So yeah, thinking about it, Tommy Robinson doesn’t come across as a particularly pleasant chap at times (certainly some of his past isn’t exactly endearing), sure he broke the law and is a criminal if me saying that makes anyone feel any better, but as Steve Bannon was alleged to have said he’s better than all our establishment elites put together to put it a bit more politely.



End London rule, fella.


----------



## tim (Jul 25, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> There are posters on some appalling fb groups who seem to be mounting s subtle campaign to liken him to nelson Mandela. Seriously



I would have problems with him spending 27 years in captivity


----------



## Rsf (Jul 25, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Steve fucking Bannon, now


Yes. Steve is alleged to have said this. Although I won’t say it the way he did as I try not to speak rudely like that. But he is basically right. But is that all you have got? Dismiss everything in a pavilion type response when you read a trigger name? Are you sure you don’t want even try debating? Your side of the debate rarely do to be honest and this fills me with confidence that the populist and nationalist wave that is sweeping the West is unstoppable. Margaret Thatcher used to say she liked it when her political opponents insulted her because she knew they had nothing left and she’d won we they resorted to that. In the end her own party had to stop her, she never ever lost an election to the left.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Steve


First name terms, eh? The petticoat of your agenda peeketh out from beneath your skirts...


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 25, 2018)

This is going to be nothing when Robinson comes out of prison to Mercer's millions. Sheesh.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 25, 2018)

Maggie Thatcher, Steve Bannon, Tommy Robinson...all outstanding figures and heroes of the working class.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Maggie Thatcher, Steve Bannon, Tommy Robinson...all outstanding figures and heroes of the working class.


You just have to squint the right way...


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 25, 2018)

(PDF) The Rise of the Right: English...


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 25, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> (PDF) The Rise of the Right: English...



That looks really interesting.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Yes. Steve is alleged to have said this. Although I won’t say it the way he did as I try not to speak rudely like that. But he is basically right. But is that all you have got? Dismiss everything in a pavilion type response when you read a trigger name? Are you sure you don’t want even try debating? Your side of the debate rarely do to be honest and this fills me with confidence that the populist and nationalist wave that is sweeping the West is unstoppable. Margaret Thatcher used to say she liked it when her political opponents insulted her because she knew they had nothing left and she’d won we they resorted to that. In the end her own party had to stop her, she never ever lost an election to the left.



Margaret fucking Thatcher, now


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Margaret fucking Thatcher, now


I'm beginning to wonder if he's playing RW Loony Bingo...


----------



## Edie (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Just decided to respond to this. I’m not recruiting for anything and have no intention of asking anyone here for anything. My ‘agenda’ if you could call it that, I.e, what I would actually like to see happening is I would like to see the UK adopt something like a USA style first amendment guaranteeing freedom of speech in this country. I would like to see the political left and right wings treated in exactly the same way by the authorities as I believe everyone should be equal before the law and believe we should have have a truly non-political police force and an impartial criminal justice system. As the woman about four minutes into the bbc news night report that someone linked to earlier said it’s pretty clear that it is one rule for one group and another rule for others in practice. Despite being on the political left for years I now regard the Labour Party as a pretty despicable, anti working class party and don’t think much more of the tories or Lib Dem’s. I want to make working class people like me aware that labour are filled top to bottom with champagne socialists who despise the working class and think they are thick and that socialism doesn’t work anyway (a poster here already sussed this ‘agenda’ of mine). I want the powers that be to face up to the grooming gang scandals and not just prosecute those who did it but also hold those who allowed it to go on to account because the entire thing sickens me and I’m really really angry about it. I’m a father myself and to think that if something happened to make my family vulnerable that the authorities could allow that to happen to my child makes me so angry I don’t even know how to put it into words. I believe the fact these things are not being done is why Tommy Robinson is now as prominent as he is and why his support is growing. Oh and I’d also like it if the far left could not behave like a bunch of fascist thugs and attempt to shutdown debates and hustings and such like but I doubt there is much chance of that one.
> 
> So yeah, thinking about it, Tommy Robinson doesn’t come across as a particularly pleasant chap at times (certainly some of his past isn’t exactly endearing), sure he broke the law and is a criminal if me saying that makes anyone feel any better, but as Steve Bannon was alleged to have said he’s better than all our establishment elites put together to put it a bit more politely.


Agree with much of that, but not at all with the final paragraph. Tommy Robinson is a racist. He tries to pretend he has ideological problems with Islam but not ‘Muslims’ whatever that means (I had Muslims at my wedding is what he’s said). This is bollocks though, the guy is a racist who probably wants to create a nationist state. And that must be rejected because otherwise it’s a short step to the horrors of concentration camps. I mean jesus look at the States, they’re already taking immigrant children from their parents. And I’m sure Bannon is approving of that. You have to stand up for what is right, and no matter how much TR says about free speech that rings true, you have to draw the line and say not in my name will that happen. So no, he is not better than many in the establishment.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Your side of the debate rarely do to be honest and this fills me with confidence that the populist and nationalist wave that is sweeping the West is unstoppable.



Not much of the both sides left here now is there? Why don't you people just come correct and upfront?


----------



## Rsf (Jul 25, 2018)

existentialist said:


> First name terms, eh? The petticoat of your agenda peeketh out from beneath your skirts...



Emmm no. Page 57 of this thread post @ 24/07/2018 23:45 I’ve already told you what my agenda is. Nothing is hidden, nothing to be paranoid about.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> That looks really interesting.


It's a very good good book with massive problems. I read it on the recc of The39thStep . It's bang on about the way that a swathe of the w/c have been alienated from from politicians (and how they are are right to be) and the wider system (and how this being channelled into self defeating ways). It's got a great piece on the difference between mourning and melancholia - the first being a recognition of a death and then moving on, and the second a refusal to do so. There's hope in that refusal, that the past that never existed can yet be made if the left starts concentrating on economic rather than cultural issues - and the situating of the edl and wider milieu in that second group.

It has many faults - it's adoption of the nairn-anderson thesis of a backward native w/c, one that's only backward due to the feeble nature of the middle class' teacher class - it reels this out whilst naming organic w/c political culture and actions that negate the thesis. It's emphasis on teaching is really disappointing. Its use of a section of the w/c as the w/c as a whole/

After the end of 200+ pages of the most brutal downbeat prose that makes LETTSA look like the cheeriest christmas elf it concludes that 'maybe the pessimists are right' and the authors are wrong...


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Emmm no. Page 57 of this thread post @ 24/07/2018 23:45 I’ve already told you what my agenda is. Nothing is hidden, nothing to be paranoid about.





> Your side of the debate rarely do to be honest and this fills me with confidence that the populist and nationalist wave that is sweeping the West is unstoppable.



You hid this. Or, you tried to.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 25, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> After the end of 200+ pages of the most brutal downbeat prose that makes LETTSA look like the cheeriest christmas elf it concludes that 'maybe the pessimists are right' and the authors are wrong...



one for "the beach" then!


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Emmm no. Page 57 of this thread post @ 24/07/2018 23:45 I’ve already told you what my agenda is. Nothing is hidden, nothing to be paranoid about.


Who said anything about paranoia? All I'm saying is that you are being increasingly poor at covering up the attitudes that lie beneath your oh-so-reasonable facade.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 25, 2018)

And thank you, that's interesting, I have at least learned something today - the Nairn-Anderson thesis. I'm not very well read at all on political theory. Sometimes I wonder how useful or important that is, but I am trying to do better.


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> this fills me with confidence that the populist and nationalist wave that is sweeping the West is unstoppable.



If that's the case, where exactly do you imagine it's leading?


----------



## Rsf (Jul 25, 2018)

Edie said:


> Agree with much of that, but not at all with the final paragraph. Tommy Robinson is a racist. He tries to pretend he has ideological problems with Islam but not ‘Muslims’ whatever that means (I had Muslims at my wedding is what he’s said). This is bollocks though, the guy is a racist who probably wants to create a nationist state. And that must be rejected because otherwise it’s a short step to the horrors of concentration camps. I mean jesus look at the States, they’re already taking immigrant children from their parents. And I’m sure Bannon is approving of that. You have to stand up for what is right, and no matter how much TR says about free speech that rings true, you have to draw the line and say not in my name will that happen. So no, he is not better than many in the establishment.



I hope you are not right about that; but if you are things are more dangerous than I thought. There is a large nationalist (but not ethnic-nationalist) and populist movement rising across Europe at the moment including in the U.K. Two years ago when this movement was much smaller they would never have had much to do with racists but they were still slandered by the left and the media as being that. Now there are groups that clearly are alt-right ethno nationalists such as generation identity that are now being absorbed into the wider movement. This is what I consider to be dangerous because we have seen where ethno-nationalism can lead in the past. I believe the reason it has been so easy for groups like generation identity to merge into the larger populist movement and fly their flags at populist demonstrations is because the left and the media smeared the larger movement as alt-right so when they warn about groups like generation identity now, those in the wider movement don’t believe them because they have heard the exact same smears levelled against themselves, only this time they are not smears.

Can’t waste much more time here though and it is just a waste of time as most people here either aren’t willing to or aren’t capable of having a debate.


----------



## Libertad (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Can’t waste much more time here though and it is just a waste of time as most people here either aren’t willing to or aren’t capable of having a debate.



See ya.


----------



## killer b (Jul 25, 2018)

_Can't waste anymore time here_ because the false nose & glasses have slipped more like.


----------



## Edie (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf Im not sure I knew there was a difference between nationalism and ethno-nationalism. I thought nationalism by definition was along ethnic lines.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I hope you are not right about that; but if you are things are more dangerous than I thought. There is a large nationalist (but not ethnic-nationalist) and populist movement rising across Europe at the moment including in the U.K. Two years ago when this movement was much smaller they would never have had much to do with racists but they were still slandered by the left and the media as being that. Now there are groups that clearly are alt-right ethno nationalists such as generation identity that are now being absorbed into the wider movement. This is what I consider to be dangerous because we have seen where ethno-nationalism can lead in the past. I believe the reason it has been so easy for groups like generation identity to merge into the larger populist movement and fly their flags at populist demonstrations is because the left and the media smeared the larger movement as alt-right so when they warn about groups like generation identity now, those in the wider movement don’t believe them because they have heard the exact same smears levelled against themselves, only this time they are not smears.
> 
> Can’t waste much more time here though and it is just a waste of time as most people here either aren’t willing to or aren’t capable of having a debate.



Bollocks to that. You said:
_this fills me with confidence that the populist and nationalist wave that is sweeping the West is unstoppable_ a few posts back.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 25, 2018)

They sometimes claim to be civic nationalists or even cultural nationalists. 

Civic nationalism - Wikipedia 

Cultural nationalism - Wikipedia


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

Edie said:


> Rsf Im not sure I knew there was a difference between nationalism and ethno-nationalism. I thought nationalism by definition was along ethnic lines.


Ethno-nationalism here means white. It's one of the tricks these cunts use to say they're not racist. Because they don't hate everyone. '_Only pakis'._


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2018)

Edie said:


> Rsf Im not sure I knew there was a difference between nationalism and ethno-nationalism. I thought nationalism by definition was along ethnic lines.



Depends. Irish nationalism is about determining a 32 country Republic first and Sinn Fein are an inclusive party and absolutely opposed to racism.

But that's an anomaly (imho) to standard nationalism.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

Oddly enough there was  a pic of a posh british anarchist fighting for an ethno-national state in Syria posted earlier against this semi-hidden rsf poster.


----------



## Edie (Jul 25, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Ethno-nationalism here means white. It's one of the tricks these cunts use to say they're not racist. Because they don't hate everyone. '_Only pakis'._


Yes and I’ve watched videos where TR says exactly that. He doesn’t have a problem with Judaism, Sikhism etc only Islam because the values are not compatible with Western values. But it’s the thin end of the wedge.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2018)

Libertad said:


> See ya.


I think you should warn him about the door hitting him on the arse on the way out. That would be a kindness.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 25, 2018)

Rojava isn't an ethno-nationalist state, it is multi-ethnic. I'm sure that at the moment it's pretty hard in Syria to find anywhere that's a model of fantastic governance for the future.  

Democratic Federation of Northern Syria - Wikipedia

Though the point was more to compare Anna Campbell's actual anti-ISIS actions to the FreeTommy crowd's brave posting of "Allah is a paedo" memes and smashing up of central London.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Rojava isn't an ethno-nationalist state, it is multi-ethnic. I'm sure that at the moment it's pretty hard in Syria to find anywhere that's a model of fantastic governance for the future.
> 
> Democratic Federation of Northern Syria - Wikipedia
> 
> Though the point was more to compare Anna Campbell's actual anti-ISIS actions to the FreeTommy crowd's brave posting of "Allah is a paedo" memes and smashing up of central London.


Bollocks is it. It's a PKK state with other ethnicitiies in it


----------



## Libertad (Jul 25, 2018)

existentialist said:


> I think you should warn him about the door hitting him on the arse on the way out. That would be a kindness.



Nah fuck that, I hope he breaks a hip.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 25, 2018)

existentialist said:


> Who said anything about paranoia? All I'm saying is that you are being increasingly poor at covering up the attitudes that lie beneath your oh-so-reasonable facade.



OK. Be honest with me, please. What attitudes do you think I hold that are, in your opinion, unreasonable. Do tell.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 25, 2018)

I'm not an expert on the governance of Rojava, but it seems hopeful, especially considering the circumstances around it: it has co-presidents, one of whom is Kurdish and one Arab, it reportedly had ethnically balanced local councils. I'm sure there is a wish to see Rojava as a utopia, and I'm sure it will end up disappointing people looking for that - perhaps before Assad bombs the shit out of it. And, my original point, that Anna Campbell had actually taken up arms against DAESH from a "left" position (along with quite a few others), while Tommy Robinson spends his time crowd-funding on YouTube stands.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> I'm not an expert on the governance of Rojava, but it seems hopeful, especially considering the circumstances around it: it has co-presidents, one of whom is Kurdish and one Arab, it reportedly had ethnically balanced local councils. I'm sure there is a wish to see Rojava as a utopia, and I'm sure it will end up disappointing people looking for that - perhaps before Assad bombs the shit out of it. And, my original point, that Anna Campbell had actually taken up arms against DAESH from a "left" position (along with quite a few others), while Tommy Robinson spends his time crowd-funding on YouTube stands.


It has formally ethnically balanced councils (itself an PPK imposition) but de facto what PKK says happens happens. Including lining up with assad to invade idlib and death to the remnants of the revolution it seems.

My point is that she didn't and to think she did is to do what the TR style _resistance _do. She even has a fucking apo badge in the most famous pic of her.

Anyway, plenty threads to do this on in world politics.


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> OK. Be honest with me, please. What attitudes do you think I hold that are, in your opinion, unreasonable. Do tell.


It isn't so much your attitudes but, as I said above, the question of where you want to see them ultimately leading. Forget all the stuff like First Amendments and all else that obviously isn't going to happen.

The thing about Yaxley Lennon is that he says he wants 'them' to act on all of what he bangs on about. If he actually believes in it, he must know that 'they' are not going to do anything of the kind. So where is it all going, and led by whom?


ETA Although the very trial he so clumsily disprupted in his quest for martyrdom could be said to be an example of 'them' doing just as he demands.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> OK. Be honest with me, please. What attitudes do you think I hold that are, in your opinion, unreasonable. Do tell.


I didn't say I thought your attitudes were unreasonable. That's the second time in a row that you've made an incorrect assumption about what I said. All grist to the mill...


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 25, 2018)

...as usual, I need to read more...


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 25, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> If people join ukip because of their antics it isn't a failure of free speech, it's *because Youtube culture has weaponised ignorance*



I just wanted to quote this because I very much liked the phrase I've bolded



Rsf said:


> Two years ago when *this movement* *was* much smaller they would never have had much to do with racists but they were still *slandered by the left *and the media as being that.



These are _your_ people then? Sure does sound like it.



Rsf said:


> Now there are groups that clearly are alt-right ethno nationalists such as generation identity that are now being absorbed into the wider movement. This is what I consider to be dangerous because we have seen where ethno-nationalism can lead in the past.



You predict genocide, or...? Be direct, this cryptic nonsense is not for honest debates.



Rsf said:


> I believe the reason it has been so easy for groups like generation identity to merge into the larger populist movement and fly their flags at populist demonstrations is because the left and the media smeared the larger movement as alt-right so when they warn about groups like generation identity now, those in the wider movement don’t believe them because they have heard the exact same smears levelled against themselves, only this time they are not smears.



So people don't like being called racist so instead of reexamining their views they go off and join up with actual racists? And _we_ should tone it down or more will join? That's fucking stupid. Hang out with racists, get called racist. Don't like it? Forge new alliances ffs.

I suggest you re-read the bolded bit in my first quote ^up there^



Rsf said:


> Can’t waste much more time here though and it is just a waste of time as most people here either aren’t willing to or aren’t capable of having a debate.



I'm not sure what it is exactly that you want to debate. It sounds like you actually want validation for your own rightward trajectory, and so far all I'm reading is a kind of backhanded defence of the 'new' right. I believe I can state without fear of contradiction that you won't be finding the validation you want here.

Be a bit more forthright, a bit less backhanded and cryptic, and I expect you'll have your debate.


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 25, 2018)

Not sure validation is what they want, but just another opportunity to claim that they have been 'silenced' by 'the left.'

These are the fun times we live in. Never has the left been weaker and yet they are everywhere, running everything. Never has there been so little silence, and never so much 'freedom of speech', with everybody saying exactly what they want and any kind of nonsense being given widespread credence.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 25, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Ethno-nationalism here means white. It's one of the tricks these cunts use to say they're not racist.



The BNP are ethno-nationalists, they believe only certain people with a certain ethnic heritage are truly British, in fact I heard Nick Griffin say words to that affect on TV years ago. Nowadays this shit is often re-branded as ‘alt-right’. I have never seen this used as a trick to pretend they’re not racist though, because it so clearly is racist that everyone can see it for exactly what it is. Trying to pretend that ethno-nationalism isn’t racially discriminatory would be like trying to pretend apartheid wasn’t racially discriminatory. I don’t believe that the likes of UKIP or Tommy Robinson are alt-right though. They’re just not as far as I can tell.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> The BNP are ethno-nationalists, they believe only certain people with a certain ethnic heritage are truly British, in fact I heard Nick Griffin say words to that affect on TV years ago. Nowadays this shit is often re-branded as ‘alt-right’. I have never seen this used as a trick to pretend they’re not racist though, because it so clearly is racist that everyone can see it for exactly what it is. Trying to pretend that ethno-nationalism isn’t racially discriminatory would be like trying to pretend apartheid wasn’t racially discriminatory. I don’t believe that the likes of UKIP or Tommy Robinson are alt-right though. They’re just not as far as I can tell.


I didn't say ethno-nationalism wasn't racist. I said the opposite. And i then said that that your attempted differentiation between ethno-nationalism and your nationalism is a specious and transparent rhetorical trick designed to  cover up your own particular racism.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 25, 2018)

“I didn't say ethno-nationalism wasn't racist. I said the opposite.”

I know you didn’t, I agreed with you that it is.  


“And i then said that that your attempted differentiation between ethno-nationalism and your nationalism is a specious and transparent rhetorical trick designed to cover up your own particular racism.”

I have to take issue with that. I know who and what I am and I’m not a racist at all. Ethno-nationalism and nationalism are just not the same thing. In Scotland the biggest party the SNP are also nationalists and they’re not racists either. Scottish nationalism is simply not the samething as ethno-nationalists racism.

Accusations of racism being so casually thrown about by far left idiots is one of the reasons the word is slowly losing its effect. If you go around calling people who are not racists racists then these people will know that they’re not. They will know that you are slandering them. And when you warn them not to associate with other groups who are actually racist because they’re racist they are unlikely to believe you. This is what I believe is happening and that the warnings about groups like generation identity are starting to fall on deaf ears.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> “I didn't say ethno-nationalism wasn't racist. I said the opposite.”
> 
> I know you didn’t, I agreed with you that it is.
> 
> ...


I agree. It's a crack within which proper racists live and breed - isn't it?


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Accusations of racism being so casually thrown about by far left idiots is one of the reasons the word is slowly losing its effect. If you go around calling people who are not racists racists then these people will know that they’re not. They will know that you are slandering them. And when you warn them not to associate with other groups who are actually racist because they’re racist they are unlikely to believe you. This is what I believe is happening and that the warnings about groups like generation identity are starting to fall on deaf ears.



What specific belief(s) are _Not Racist?_ Let's cut to the chase, what have you / your mate been called racist for saying, specifically?


----------



## Rsf (Jul 25, 2018)

> So people don't like being called racist so instead of reexamining their views they go off and join up with actual racists? And _we_ should tone it down or more will join?



Yes. As a general rule, if you go around slandering people with disgusting smears that they know are not true then, believe it or not, I think they’re unlikely re-examine their views on the basis of anything you say. The most likely result is that having been on the receiving end of your unwarranted and slanderous abuse they will ignore everything else you have to say on the subject, including any other other warnings you give them that may actually be valid. Would you expect a different outcome?

Guilt by association is another matter entirely.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 25, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> What specific belief(s) are _Not Racist?_ Let's cut to the chase, what have you / your mate been called racist for saying, specifically?


----------



## Rsf (Jul 25, 2018)

“What specific belief(s) are _Not Racist?_ Let's cut to the chase, what have you / your mate been called racist for saying, specifically?”

I’ve only ever been called a racist here, I believe it was for saying that ethno-nationalism (which I totally condemn) and nationalism are not the samething. Apparently  someone seems to think this is just a cover to hide my views because someone else can know what I’m really thinking and what my motivation is. Scottish nationalism is not racism. The SNP are not racist. To be honest this debate isn’t even constructive so I give up for now. I’m just banging my head against a wall and it’s difficult to take accusations of racism seriously from people like that. I believe the left have just discredited themselves with their apparent obsession in finding racism everywhere, I think they’re like the modern day witch finders, they’re gonna find a witch one way or the other even where none exists.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Yes. As a general rule, if you go around slandering people with disgusting smears that they know are not true then, believe it or not, I think they’re unlikely re-examine their views on the basis of anything you say. The most likely result is that having been on the receiving end of your unwarranted and slanderous abuse they will ignore everything else you have to say on the subject, including any other other warnings you give them that may actually be valid. Would you expect a different outcome?
> 
> Guilt by association is another matter entirely.



Be nicer to "Tommy", "Steve" and the gang & they'll be nicer to us. Is that it?


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Be nicer to "Tommy", "Steve" and the gang & they'll be nicer to us. Is that it?


You're half the problem you plank.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Yes. As a general rule, if you go around slandering people with disgusting smears that they know are not true then, believe it or not, I think they’re unlikely re-examine their views on the basis of anything you say. The most likely result is that having been on the receiving end of your unwarranted and slanderous abuse they will ignore everything else you have to say on the subject, including any other other warnings you give them that may actually be valid.



I agree with that.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

You can fuck off and all.


----------



## chilango (Jul 25, 2018)

What particular rabbit hole are we merrily being led down here? I can't make it out from the last few pages tbh.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> “What specific belief(s) are _Not Racist?_ Let's cut to the chase, what have you / your mate been called racist for saying, specifically?”
> 
> I’ve only ever been called a racist here, I believe it was for saying that ethno-nationalism (which I totally condemn) and nationalism are not the samething. Apparently  someone seems to think this is just a cover to hide my views because someone else can know what I’m really thinking and what my motivation is. Scottish nationalism is not racism. The SNP are not racist. To be honest this debate isn’t even constructive so I give up for now. I’m just banging my head against a wall and it’s difficult to take accusations of racism seriously from people like that. I believe the left have just discredited themselves with their apparent obsession in finding racism everywhere, I think they’re like the modern day witch finders, they’re gonna find a witch one way or the other even where none exists.



Witch hunt?
I found the broom earlier:
_this fills me with confidence that the populist and nationalist wave that is sweeping the West is unstoppable_.

You're confident that being quizzed by people you reckon are "far left" or Matthew Hopkins or whoever is going to lead to people running to "Tommy"?


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 25, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> I just wanted to quote this because I very much liked the phrase I've bolded


Cheers.

It's really the only way to describe this toxic culture that has been created solely through means of social media. People like 'Count Dankula' have no other existence purpose or meaning beyond it. He describes himself as a shitposter - that's politics to these people. He doesn't understand nor care to that throwing around phrases calling for ethnic cleansing have a history meaning and a context. 

Because it's lolz innit.

Yet they will cry utter foul if you point out their behaviour is that of a twat. Yet they want to be taken seriously, the continued exhortations for free speech is a realisation they don't have a seat at the table and that's what they want. Like all fascists, physically violent or otherwise, they crave legitimacy. That is one of the reasons I find people like him, and the other swinebags I mentioned, so reprehensible.

To use their, ridiculous patronising and deeply offensive parlance, they trigger me.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Yes. As a general rule, if you go around slandering people with disgusting smears that they know are not true then, believe it or not, I think they’re unlikely re-examine their views on the basis of anything you say. The most likely result is that having been on the receiving end of your unwarranted and slanderous abuse they will ignore everything else you have to say on the subject, including any other other warnings you give them that may actually be valid. Would you expect a different outcome?
> 
> Guilt by association is another matter entirely.


How about when Carl Benjamin, aka Sargon of Akkad, says "I wouldn't even rape you" to a survivor of sexual assault? Or when he and Stefan Molyneux use racist language to describe and denigrate people of colour. Or when Lauren Southern enables fascists to block legal rescue attempts of drowning migrants? These are all people Dankula is willing to glad hand for a living?


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> “I didn't say ethno-nationalism wasn't racist. I said the opposite.”
> 
> I know you didn’t, I agreed with you that it is.
> 
> ...


You're not Millenial Woes, are you?


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 25, 2018)

chilango said:


> What particular rabbit hole are we merrily being led down here? I can't make it out from the last few pages tbh.



fuck knows it appears they are trying to say as long as they don't identify as fash its alright to associate with fash and hold views in line with them

but if anyone pulls you on it is slanderous lies


----------



## Rsf (Jul 25, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> You can fuck off and all.



C’mon. Do you really think that is a reasonable response? I really shouldn’t. But one last time... 

There are different forms of nationalism. For example the BNP and the SNP are both nationalist political parties. But they are both very different parties politically with almost nothing in common. 

This is because their versions of “nationalism” are very, very different things. One is not some sneaky ploy to hide the fact that it is actually the same as the other. I therefore think you are just factually wrong if you really believe all nationalism is just ethno-nationalism dressed up.

And it is very easy to tell which is which by looking at the policies that are derived from it. Hence why the nationalistic SNP welcome immigrants and are totally oppressed to all forms of racial discrimination. And why despite not always agreeing with them I consider the SNP to be a fundamentally decent party but consider the BNP harmful and dangerous.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> C’mon. Do you really think that is a reasonable response? I really shouldn’t. But one last time...
> 
> There are different forms of nationalism. For example the BNP and the SNP are both nationalist political parties. But they are both very different parties politically with almost nothing in common.
> 
> ...


I believe that yours is - not all. I oppose all of them and seek to identify them correctly. Yours is rank, and i think your difference is as fake as your wider i'm just telling it like it is facade.


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> C’mon. Do you really think that is a reasonable response? I really shouldn’t. But one last time...
> 
> There are different forms of nationalism. For example the BNP and the SNP are both nationalist political parties. But they are both very different parties politically with almost nothing in common.
> 
> ...


You keep mentioning Scottish nationalism with apparent approval. I know little about the history of Scottish nationalism, but I don't think they started off by extolling the virtues of a 'Tommy,' or a 'Steve.'


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> C’mon. Do you really think that is a reasonable response? I really shouldn’t. But one last time...
> 
> There are different forms of nationalism. For example the BNP and the SNP are both nationalist political parties. But they are both very different parties politically with almost nothing in common.
> 
> ...



You don't find TR's BNP background or his EDL and certain UKIP supporters harmful or dangerous? When he called adult male Muslims who'd come into the EU in the last few years "fake refugees"?

Or when Gerard Batten at the recent rally called Mohammed a paedophile? Or previously, Islam a death cult?

Sounds very much like the language of the harmful and dangerous to me.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 25, 2018)

Actually


Toast Rider said:


> You're not Millenial Woes, are you?


Laurie Penny fan club


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jul 25, 2018)

The SNP is a Scottish nationalist - civic nationalist - party, not a movement.  In terms of the movement, there are absolutely racist, fascist and crypto fascist elements in Scottish nationalism, not least these guys: Siol nan Gaidheal - Wikipedia
I would suggest that it is the equivalent of these guys in England that our new poster is aligning himself with when he defends the TR lot. 
Not all UKIP are or were racist individuals, but they are members of an institutionally racist org led by people who are at the very least fellow travellers to fascism. And UKIP are the “left wing” of the TR movement......
I get tired of all this “nobody listens to us” schtick from the right/far right. People do listen, they just don’t agree with you - quite often from a more informed viewpoint.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> The SNP is a Scottish nationalist - civic nationalist - party, not a movement.  In terms of the movement, there are absolutely racist, fascist and crypto fascist elements in Scottish nationalism, not least these guys: Siol nan Gaidheal - Wikipedia
> I would suggest that it is the equivalent of these guys in England that our new poster is aligning himself with when he defends the TR lot.
> Not all UKIP are or were racist individuals, but they are members of an institutionally racist org led by people who are at the very least fellow travellers to fascism. And UKIP are the “left wing” of the TR movement......
> I get tired of all this “nobody listens to us” schtick from the right/far right. People do listen, they just don’t agree with you - quite often from a more informed viewpoint.


The things that that demand answering can only be replied to by overturning neo-liberalism. So when people say they don't want to be just heard but want answers - ones that involve overthrowing everything the response is to say - _you've been heard, the politicians have decided._


You, as revolutionary anarchist, are not excited by this gap?


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jul 25, 2018)

I think this from Dave Graeber sums up much of why we are where we are now in politics in UK, Europe and America:

Resentment.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

Cuddly dave who called Robin Yassin-Kassab a jihadi. I feel pretty resentful about that given his own PKK-pimping.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jul 25, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> The things that that demand answering can only be replied to by overturning neo-liberalism. So when people say they don't want to be just head but want answers - ones that involve overthrowing everything the response is to say - _you've been heard, the politicians have decided._
> 
> 
> You, as revolutionary anarchist, are not excited by this gap?


Amen, fellow worker.

The problem comes with people not wanting to listen to US. Because they have “heard it all before”, and in the current iteration of Western individualist culture “nobody can tell me what to do/think”. The meme wave upon which all the army of dementors ride- beyond logic, reason or human compassion....


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

What can i do for you? In simple exact terms. What do you want doing? In exact simple terms. What can we do to get these things. In exact simple terms.


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 25, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> I know little about the history of Scottish nationalism, but I don't think they started off by extolling the virtues of a 'Tommy,' or a 'Steve.'



they've had a few flirtations they'd probably rather keep quiet about these days

Here Comes Hitler – Scottish Review of Books

_Andrew Dewar Gibb held a chair of Law at Glasgow University as well as senior office within the Scottish National Party but in his 1930 book Scotland in Eclipse he wrote in obscenely racist terms about the Catholic Irish community in Scotland.

Gibb was someone whom Gerhard von Tevenar, a Nazi emissary to Scotland in 1937 and 1938 was anxious to meet though he had to settle for writing to him as part of his quest for ‘Blutsgefuhl’, i.e. a sense of race awareness within Scottish nationalism. He had to conclude that there was little of it but there was some, as the crass anglophobia of some contributions to the pre-war Scots Independent serve to remind us. An example of this was Arthur Donaldson and today’s SNP should surely take no pride in his post-war rise to a ten-year tenure as its chairman or indeed in still having an annual conference lecture named after him. Having been expelled from the party for his open support of Scottish neutrality in the war Donaldson, though not a Fascist in any card-carrying sense, was at the very least a defeatist in 1940 when Hamish Henderson and many more who thought as he did were already in uniform. In 1940 and 1941 Donaldson talked and wrote of a Nazi victory as a moment of political opportunity for Scottish nationalism.
_


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 25, 2018)

My next book, and i'm not joking, is Fascist Scotland by  Gavin Bowd. How they got away with it is amazing - the petainst scum


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 25, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Actually
> 
> Laurie Penny fan club


I doubt Millenial Woes would consider himself a fan of her; he's a racist misogynist youtuber!


----------



## Poi E (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Hence why the nationalistic SNP welcome immigrants and are totally oppressed to all forms of racial discrimination. And why despite not always agreeing with them I consider the SNP to be a fundamentally decent party but consider the BNP harmful and dangerous.



There is a clear case in economics-liberal economics, if you must-that immigration is required to Scotland to increase growth. It's not a bit of fluffiness, but the window dressing is. 

The SNP are an engine for independence who, by default, look relatively sane. There's not a lot of competition.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 25, 2018)

chilango said:


> What particular rabbit hole are we merrily being led down here? I can't make it out from the last few pages tbh.


I think it's something along the lines of "Yaxley-Lennon and all of that ilk aren't necessarily racist bastards, they're just a bit misunderstood. And if you took the trouble to understand them better, you'd see that they have a point."


----------



## manji (Jul 25, 2018)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Bit of a thug himself, lest we forget
> 
> Statement on the Morning Star’s suppression of domestic violence allegations | IWW


----------



## manji (Jul 25, 2018)

Think that clears that up


----------



## Edie (Jul 25, 2018)

Who is Brother S Hedley?


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 25, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I’ve only ever been called a racist here, I believe it was for saying that ethno-nationalism (which I totally condemn) and nationalism are not the samething. Apparently  someone seems to think this is just a cover to hide my views because someone else can know what I’m really thinking and what my motivation is. Scottish nationalism is not racism. The SNP are not racist. To be honest this debate isn’t even constructive so I give up for now. I’m just banging my head against a wall and it’s difficult to take accusations of racism seriously from people like that. I believe the left have just discredited themselves with their apparent obsession in finding racism everywhere, I think they’re like the modern day witch finders, they’re gonna find a witch one way or the other even where none exists.



Alright, so then how does that relate to the topic at hand, hate speech as "free speech"?

Do you personally think anything should be permissible in public discourse? Should utter bellends with zero empathy have some notional Right to be Heard like that can or should ever be a thing? Do you personally have skin in this game? (FTR I don't agree "we all" have skin in this particular game)


----------



## manji (Jul 25, 2018)

Edie said:


> Who is Brother S Hedley?


Ref Mr Bishies post.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 25, 2018)

manji said:


> Think that clears that up



Fuck off.


----------



## keybored (Jul 26, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> I doubt Millenial Woes would consider himself a fan of her; he's a racist misogynist youtuber!


Wasn't she quite cozy with Weev once?

Oh, and Milo.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 26, 2018)

keybored said:


> Wasn't she quite cozy with Weev once?
> 
> Oh, and Milo.


Oh yeah...that.

I can't imagine what would possess anyone to pal up to that scumbag.


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 26, 2018)

Edit: wrong thread.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 26, 2018)

Anyone noticed the number of 'truthers' 'justice for ...' and other other weird cover up activists who have links with the Free Tommy campaign . There's the three boys who were killed in a horrible car incident who think it was a terrorist attack  a campaign for an inquiry into the death of a wythenshaw bloke convicted of drug trafficking who died in prison abroad, a campaign over a CSA survivor who was detained re mental health . Some of these campaigns have linked up for a demo on Saturday in London and have an EDL activist from Bolton speaking . There's also a cross over with self appointed historic abuse investigators which has now got the benefit of RedPill Phil ( a TR supporter) interviewing some bloke out of East17. Very weird lot. Personally I blame Facebook.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 26, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Personally I blame Facebook.



Aye. YouTube might be even worse though. We're being Info War-d!


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 26, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Anyone noticed the number of 'truthers' 'justice for ...' and other other weird cover up activists who have links with the Free Tommy campaign . There's the three boys who were killed in a horrible car incident who think it was a terrorist attack  a campaign for an inquiry into the death of a wythenshaw bloke convicted of drug trafficking who died in prison abroad, a campaign over a CSA survivor who was detained re mental health . Some of these campaigns have linked up for a demo on Saturday in London and have an EDL activist from Bolton speaking . There's also a cross over with self appointed historic abuse investigators which has now got the benefit of RedPill Phil ( a TR supporter) interviewing some bloke out of East17. Very weird lot. Personally I blame Facebook.


The number of people who have disapeared down the YouTube rabbit hole is faintly disturbing, if entertaining.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 26, 2018)

https://www.cjr.org/analysis/algorithm-russia-facebook.php

(That opens on Facebook but gets into YouTube further down - it's quite long.) 

I work from home and I'm online all the time. I used to have YouTube on a lot, but if you go into anything political (or increasingly anything informational even) you end up being recommended really extreme stuff really quickly. 

The first example I had of it personally was because I was interested in meditation. I watched an American journalist called Dan Harris who'd done some stuff on mindfulness on big American TV shows. He did an interview with (famous atheist and now "intellectual dark web" (ha!) member Sam Harris), and that opened up a huge wormhole. I watched a couple of things by him and was soon getting recommended things by channels with crusader knights and templars all over them talking about the "Muslim invasion of Europe" and the like. 

More recently, I watched one video by the David Pakman show (liberal US commentator) on Jared Kushner being mocked during a live interview with a Jewish organisation. I was then recommended some coverage of the actual event, so I watched that, and next up on autoplay is an hour long video of insane anti-semitic conspiracy theories about Kushner - Kushner's a dick, but this was really bad stuff, which I reported. . . I don't know if anything came of that, I doubt it. . . 

I'm sure the content producers are aware of how it works, and are pushed to create more and more edgy and controversial material. . . 

"Engagement" algorithms will give us auto-suggest fascism!


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## RD2003 (Jul 26, 2018)

I watched the England semi-final at the home of a secular(ish) Muslim friend of my wife who seemed genuinely convinced that the Jews are behind almost everything bad, which may not necessarily be a YouTube/Internet thing... Another friend, a 'soft' Corbyn supporter, maintained that 'they' indisputably assassinated Diana. Others, some looking a little uneasy, were prepared to take both contentions seriously. 

This stuff seems more widespread than you might think.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 26, 2018)

Sheesh! 

I thought for a laugh I'd go and look at the comments under a Princess Diana story at the Express. Here you go, first comment up:

 

From Diana to Madeleine McCann to... 

Not that this stuff is totally new I reckon. I used to read a lot of James Ellroy books. It's not history I know, but I think it's pretty authentic and well researched, and they (set in the 60s mostly) feature loads of far right conspiracy loons, usually clustered around the KKK. So Alex Jones and his pals are nothing new, it's just they don't have pirate radio transmitters and printing presses any more and they consequently have a far bigger reach.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 27, 2018)

Friend of mine, an Irish Republican and very proud of his Republican heritage is sound on most things but once he brings up "the Jews", I'm out. Same with another friend who's of Jamaican heritage - she absolutely says there's no room for racism in her life. Told me some terrible stories of her growing up in the Midlands and what she faced not just from kids but cops. Then she'd launch into a tirade about "the Jews are just as bad, the way they treat black people".

I don't understand how some people can deviate in an instant from the rational to the irrational


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## The39thStep (Jul 27, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Aye. YouTube might be even worse though. We're being Info War-d!


Yes. I've met some right nutters in Portugal who spend far too much time on Youtube  or by themselves. There's a Portuguese bloke who I bump into in one of the local bars every now and again who likes to speak English with me and is obssesed with some theory that the real killer of JFK is actually in prison but they wont charge him for some reason. Theres an English bloke who only speaks about what hes seen on RT and keeps sending me Youtube vides of aliens and coverups and another barmy English couple who after smoking to much wacky baccy ramble on about cannabis oil being supresssed because it is a threat to multi international drug companies and having met the man who invented barcodes who is now in hiding, which apparantly were originally designed to be tatooed on humans by the 'powers that be'. I'm very grateful for the fact that as they spend so much time watching this garbage that I dont see them very often.


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## sim667 (Jul 27, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> the man who invented barcodes who is now in hiding



The man who invented barcodes is actually a very old freinds dad. AFAIK he retired, moved abroad and passed away.

Edit: no, sorry, I've got it wrong, its the guy who invented black strips on the back of train tickets etc.


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## DotCommunist (Jul 27, 2018)

that barcodes as tattoos for control used to show up in xtian end time armageddony after the rapture ramblings.

I'd hope these days they've updated it to rfid/gps chips implanted at birth, otherwise the theory hasn't moved with the times


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## andysays (Jul 27, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> that barcodes as tattoos for control used to show up in xtian end time armageddony after the rapture ramblings.
> 
> I'd hope these days they've updated it to rfid/gps chips implanted at birth, otherwise the theory hasn't moved with the times


Inside every anti-establishment conspiraloon beats the heart of a traditionalist


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## hot air baboon (Jul 27, 2018)

The Paranoid Style in American Politics
By Richard Hofstadter

from the November 1964 issue

The Paranoid Style in American Politics | Harper's Magazine

American politics has often been an arena for angry minds. In recent years we have seen angry minds at work mainly among extreme right-wingers, who have now demonstrated in the Goldwater movement how much political leverage can be got out of the animosities and passions of a small minority. But behind this I believe there is a style of mind that is far from new and that is not necessarily right-wing. I call it the paranoid style simply because no other word adequately evokes the sense of heated exaggeration, suspiciousness, and conspiratorial fantasy that I have in mind. In using the expression “paranoid style” I am not speaking in a clinical sense, but borrowing a clinical term for other purposes. I have neither the competence nor the desire to classify any figures of the past or present as certifiable lunatics. In fact, the idea of the paranoid style as a force in politics would have little contemporary relevance or historical value if it were applied only to men with profoundly disturbed minds. It is the use of paranoid modes of expression by more or less normal people that makes the phenomenon significant.

Of course this term is pejorative, and it is meant to be; the paranoid style has a greater affinity for bad causes than good. But nothing really prevents a sound program or demand from being advocated in the paranoid style. Style has more to do with the way in which ideas are believed than with the truth or falsity of their content. I am interested here in getting at our political psychology through our political rhetoric. The paranoid style is an old and recurrent phenomenon in our public life which has been frequently linked with movements of suspicious discontent.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 27, 2018)




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## bimble (Jul 27, 2018)

krtek a houby and RD2003 , out of interest when these people you mention say the stuff about jews being behind all the badness in the world do you try to engage with it or just feel awkward and wait for them to stop ? I've recently come to feel that it shouldn't be up to the people directly affected to counter this stuff every time, sometimes its just to scary to do so, but it would be really good if more often it was challenged by those who don't have to feel scared in the same way.
It could be as simple as saying 'you can think what you like but i don't want to hear it thanks', doesn't have to be an attempt to change their mind just to make it less acceptable to launch into the stuff in public and spread their ideas?


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## The39thStep (Jul 27, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> that barcodes as tattoos for control used to show up in xtian end time armageddony after the rapture ramblings.
> 
> I'd hope these days they've updated it to rfid/gps chips implanted at birth, otherwise the theory hasn't moved with the times


The firm behind this was Latienos & Romiith


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## RD2003 (Jul 27, 2018)

bimble said:


> krtek a houby and RD2003 , out of interest when these people you mention say the stuff about jews being behind all the badness in the world do you try to engage with it or just feel awkward and wait for them to stop ? I've recently come to feel that it shouldn't be up to the people directly affected to counter this stuff every time, sometimes its just to scary to do so, but it would be really good if more often it was challenged by those who don't have to feel scared in the same way.
> It could be as simple as saying 'you can think what you like but i don't want to hear it thanks', doesn't have to be an attempt to change their mind just to make it less acceptable to launch into the stuff in public and spread their ideas?


Course I challenged it. In fact I took the piss mercilessly, as did somebody else who was present. The woman I mentioned is a perfectly reasonable person in all other respects. I think she's affected by what she would no doubt hear on a casual basis in her formative years from family and in community she grew up in. She is also a bit conspiracy-minded, and I suspect she watches and reads a certain kind of material online (not Islamist stuff but the kind of thing mentioned by others above.) She did backtrack on some of what she was saying, but I don't know if it would have had any lasting impact. I know one of her brothers slightly, and he is also a decent enough bloke, but I hear from somebody who knows him better that he can be the same as her when it comes to politics. Palestine is the big deal for both of them, but I don't think either has ever lifted a finger on the issue.


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## mojo pixy (Jul 27, 2018)

bimble said:


> p...out of interest when these people you mention say the stuff about jews being behind all the badness in the world do you try to engage with it or just feel awkward and wait for them to stop ? I've recently come to feel that it shouldn't be up to the people directly affected to counter this stuff every time, sometimes its just to scary to do so, but it would be really good if more often it was challenged by those who don't have to feel scared in the same way.
> It could be as simple as saying 'you can think what you like but i don't want to hear it thanks', doesn't have to be an attempt to change their mind just to make it less acceptable to launch into the stuff in public and spread their ideas?



IMO it's everyone's job to be as scornful as possible and to convey utter contempt along the lines of _No, that's fucking stupid_. Don't engage with any substance, don't dignify the cunts with rational discourse, just_ No, that's fucking stupid_ till they lose their shit and / or fuck off.

tbh either them or me fucking off is the aim because there's no reasoning with them and trying to just encourages them to keep talking.

IMO anyway. Anyone promotiing this shit deserves physical violence so unrelenting, pitiless scorn and contempt is actually doing the fuckers a favour.


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## killer b (Jul 27, 2018)

Lots of people just repeat this stuff unthinkingly - I don't think scorn or violence are the best solution tbh, certainly not in the first instance. That just gets their backs up and makes them less likely to listen to reason in future.


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## RD2003 (Jul 27, 2018)

killer b said:


> Lots of people just repeat this stuff unthinkingly - I don't think scorn or violence are the best solution tbh, certainly not in the first instance. That just gets their backs up and makes them less likely to listen to reason in future.


As a token gesture I deliberately overshot the toilet bowl for an instant in her immaculate bathroom.


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## bimble (Jul 27, 2018)

killer b said:


> Lots of people just repeat this stuff unthinkingly - I don't think scorn or violence are the best solution tbh, certainly not in the first instance. That just gets their backs up and makes them less likely to listen to reason in future.


Agree with you. My previous driving teacher is the last time this really came up for me: I didn't have the courage to speak at the time but sent him a long text afterwards explaining what was wrong with what he'd said and why i was stopping lessons. The reply I got was really encouraging, him saying he'd never really thought about it before, would not be repeating that stuff in future and that he was sorry cos he liked me and never knew jews could be just normal people like me etc. In the end i'm glad i didn't have the 'guts' to respond with maximum drama at the moment it was happening.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 27, 2018)

bimble said:


> krtek a houby and RD2003 , out of interest when these people you mention say the stuff about jews being behind all the badness in the world do you try to engage with it or just feel awkward and wait for them to stop ? I've recently come to feel that it shouldn't be up to the people directly affected to counter this stuff every time, sometimes its just to scary to do so, but it would be really good if more often it was challenged by those who don't have to feel scared in the same way.
> It could be as simple as saying 'you can think what you like but i don't want to hear it thanks', doesn't have to be an attempt to change their mind just to make it less acceptable to launch into the stuff in public and spread their ideas?



I used to be a lot more confrontational but when you know the person saying it, I try and reason with them. Ask them why they think that way and aren't they being a bit hypocritical. It really depends on the situation and the individual, imho. Another mate is rabidly pro-Israel and pro-IRA and a tory Hindu. Highly intelligent but makes my mind boggle when he goes on about Palestinians being terrorists. I point out to him Irish Republicans and socialism and strong support for Palestine in Ireland which he can't get his head round! 

Much easier to have a barney on line with an out and out bigot but irl,some peoples prejudices are so nuanced, you realise there's no absolutes.

My problem with BNP/EDL/TR supporters, the few I'd met, was outright hostility from the get go. I suppose I should follow my own advice and accept that there will be nuances there and some people have genuine concerns. Less so with the BNP/EDL fanboys who I thankfully no longer have to engage with.

Er, rambling a bit, sorry.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 27, 2018)

bimble said:


> Agree with you. My previous driving teacher is the last time this really came up for me: I didn't have the courage to speak at the time but sent him a long text afterwards explaining what was wrong with what he'd said and why i was stopping lessons. The reply I got was really encouraging, him saying he'd never really thought about it before, would not be repeating that stuff in future and that he was sorry cos he liked me and never knew jews could be just normal people like me etc. In the end i'm glad i didn't have the 'guts' to respond with maximum drama at the moment it was happening.



Sometimes the shock of the moment can stop you from responding. You think to yourself - wait a moment, did s/he actually say that???


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## RD2003 (Jul 27, 2018)

I find it a bit strange that anybody can get to a certain stage in life and still be shocked by anything.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 27, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> I find it a bit strange that anybody can get to a certain stage in life and still be shocked by anything.



Life still has the occasional surprises in store!


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## Poi E (Jul 27, 2018)

andysays said:


> Inside every anti-establishment conspiraloon beats the heart of a traditionalist



Worth quoting.


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## mojo pixy (Jul 27, 2018)

killer b said:


> Lots of people just repeat this stuff unthinkingly - I don't think scorn or violence are the best solution tbh, certainly not in the first instance. That just gets their backs up and makes them less likely to listen to reason in future.



I used to think this, but time and struggle has worn me down.

In practice I might not be quite so rude but patience, reasoned debate and engagement as if the arguments have equal value is off my list by now. I can discuss rationally but I want rational responses to work with.

There's a world of other stuff to talk about too. Nobody is obliged to engage with conspiranoid shit and as a rule of thumb doing so just encourages them. At the end of the day each of us have limits on humouring other people's delusional ideas and this is one area where my limits are extremely tight.

EtA, even people believing in big-C Conservatism or even fascism get more from me, personally. At least they have some kind of political analysis. It might be shit but it's something to engage with. The _Not Even Wrong_ of conspiraloonery is impossible.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 27, 2018)

Rabbit holes you say....:



Icke's making a life-story film, and crowd-funding it of course. There's a trailer up. There's a moment that's quite moving, when he talks about the ridicule he received (and iirc his family received) after his Wogan interview. The rest is crap... 

He looks and sounds like he drinks a lot.


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## Dogsauce (Jul 27, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> that barcodes as tattoos for control used to show up in xtian end time armageddony after the rapture ramblings.
> 
> I'd hope these days they've updated it to rfid/gps chips implanted at birth, otherwise the theory hasn't moved with the times



I have a leaflet somewhere that was handed to me in New York in the early 90s by some mad Korean Christian sect, all about endtime prophecies, some 12-year EU deal and barcodes on people. The thing that really spooks me is that the accompanying illustration shows planes crashing into skyscrapers.


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## MightyTibberton (Jul 27, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> I have a leaflet somewhere that was handed to me in New York in the early 90s by some mad Korean Christian sect, all about endtime prophecies, some 12-year EU deal and barcodes on people. The thing that really spooks me is that the accompanying illustration shows planes crashing into skyscrapers.



Have you seen the "Rothschilds put an illustration of 9/11 on US banknotes that you can only reveal by some sort of bizarre origami with your money in order to taunt proper Americans with what they were going to do" conspiracy theory? It's amazing. And I haven't made it up!


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## belboid (Jul 27, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Have you seen the "Rothschilds put an illustration of 9/11 on US banknotes that you can only reveal by some sort of bizarre origami with your money in order to taunt proper Americans with what they were going to do" conspiracy theory? It's amazing. And I haven't made it up!


did it three years before the attacks even happened.

What more proof of the illuminati's existence could anyone want?


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## The39thStep (Jul 27, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Have you seen the "Rothschilds put an illustration of 9/11 on US banknotes that you can only reveal by some sort of bizarre origami with your money in order to taunt proper Americans with what they were going to do" conspiracy theory? It's amazing. And I haven't made it up!


years ago somebody refolded a Marlboro light fag packet to reveal to me the letters KKK


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## The39thStep (Jul 27, 2018)

bimble said:


> Agree with you. My previous driving teacher is the last time this really came up for me: I didn't have the courage to speak at the time but sent him a long text afterwards explaining what was wrong with what he'd said and why i was stopping lessons. The reply I got was really encouraging, him saying he'd never really thought about it before, would not be repeating that stuff in future and that he was sorry cos he liked me and never knew jews could be just normal people like me etc. In the end i'm glad i didn't have the 'guts' to respond with maximum drama at the moment it was happening.


Reminds me of the driving instructor in Happy Go Lucky


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## Edie (Jul 27, 2018)

My youngest whose 13 is very into conspiracy theories, the fringes of reasonable politics including the alt-right, Jordan Peterson type people, the world of organised crime and famous villains and con artists, and the out there bits of religions. Some of the shit he comes out with is proper bonkers and he’ll try and argue black is white just for the kicks. I try to get him to think critically about stuff, but sometimes I just laugh.


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## Humirax (Jul 27, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> Rabbit holes you say....:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 Icke is one of the few people left who still believes that the Protocols of the Elders of Zion conspiracy theory is true. Apparently most on the far-right don't believe in it anymore but he does.


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## Rsf (Jul 27, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> IMO anyway. Anyone promotiing this shit deserves physical violence so unrelenting, pitiless scorn and contempt is actually doing the fuckers a favour.






bimble said:


> Agree with you. My previous driving teacher is the last time this really came up for me: I didn't have the courage to speak at the time but sent him a long text afterwards explaining what was wrong with what he'd said and why i was stopping lessons. The reply I got was really encouraging, him saying he'd never really thought about it before, would not be repeating that stuff in future and that he was sorry cos he liked me and never knew jews could be just normal people like me etc. In the end i'm glad i didn't have the 'guts' to respond with maximum drama at the moment it was happening.



Violence is never the right thing. What you did  is actually the right thing, but you already know that. You listened to what someone else said and then after consideration gave a reasonable response which, by the sounds of things, caused them to reflect and re-examine things. If you actually want to change minds that is exactly how to do it. 

There are a lot of morons here who I would call the ‘looney left’ that are actually intellectually incapable of making rational arguments and have nothing else other than to resort to shaming, violence, oppression and censorship. Does that ever change anyone’s mind? I think not. Those people will likely never achieve anything and are often too thick, to arrogant or to sheltered and privileged to understand that the exact same things they advocate using against others could be used against them by a movement far stronger than they are.


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## ddraig (Jul 27, 2018)

What "rational arguments" do you think you've made yourself?


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2018)

You're a fucking  mug edie - you really are. PHD idiot.


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## Rsf (Jul 27, 2018)

ddraig said:


> What "rational arguments" do you think you've made yourself?


I (hope) I have said that whilst we must never demonise an entire religious or ethnic group we must admit that there is a particular problem with grooming gangs that must be addressed. And that while it is a class issue in the sense that lefty councillors and such like would never have permittted it had the victims not been vulnerable working class girls, it is not just a class issue. Not even mostly a class issue. And that free speech is a human right worth struggling for and needs to return to the U.K. despite the determined opposition to free speech from the authoritarian left.


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I (hope) I have said that whilst we must never demonise an entire religious or ethnic group we must admit that there is a particular problem with grooming gangs that must be addressed. And that while it is a class issue in the sense that lefty councillors and such like would never have permittted it had the victims not been vulnerable working class girls, it is not just a class issue. Not even mostly a class issue. And that free speech is a human right worth struggling for and needs to return to the U.K. despite the determined opposition to free speech from the authoritarian left.


_Soft thatcher voice._


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2018)

That you can only fool one person is encouraging i suppose. You rank rank cunt.


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## JimW (Jul 27, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I (hope) I have said that whilst we must never demonise an entire religious or ethnic group we must admit that there is a particular problem with grooming gangs that must be addressed.


If you address it your way focusing on religion you'd miss the actually more salient factors like kinship culture and occupation so while you might have the right to talk bollocks it's not helping anyone.


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## ddraig (Jul 27, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I (hope) I have said that whilst we must never demonise an entire religious or ethnic group we must admit that there is a particular problem with grooming gangs that must be addressed. And that while it is a class issue in the sense that lefty councillors and such like would never have permittted it had the victims not been vulnerable working class girls, it is not just a class issue. Not even mostly a class issue. And that free speech is a human right worth struggling for and needs to return to the U.K. despite the determined opposition to free speech from the authoritarian left.


Do you think there should be consequences for what people say? What do you think you "can't say"?


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## mojo pixy (Jul 27, 2018)

Rsf said:


> /... free speech is a human right worth struggling for and needs to return to the U.K. *despite the determined opposition to free speech from the authoritarian left.*



Freedom of Speech has never gone away you numpty. You just don't understand what it is.

By the way I love the bolded bit. _Definitely Soft Thatcher Voice, Serious Concerned Eyes_


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 27, 2018)

Not sure we want this all over the weekend tbh.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 27, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Do you think there should be consequences for what people say? What do you think you "can't say"?


Social consequences or legal consequences? If there are legal consequences then one is, by definition, not free to do it.


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## ddraig (Jul 27, 2018)

stop wriggling


----------



## 8ball (Jul 27, 2018)

Edie said:


> My youngest whose 13 is very into conspiracy theories, the fringes of reasonable politics including the alt-right, Jordan Peterson type people, the world of organised crime and famous villains and con artists, and the out there bits of religions. Some of the shit he comes out with is proper bonkers and he’ll try and argue black is white just for the kicks. I try to get him to think critically about stuff, but sometimes I just laugh.



Sounds like a bit of a scattergun approach.  The alt-right does seem to have a certain appeal for teenage boys.


----------



## Edie (Jul 27, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> You're a fucking  mug edie - you really are. PHD idiot.


Because I liked that he said bimble handled it the right way? She did fwiw.


----------



## Edie (Jul 27, 2018)

8ball said:


> Sounds like a bit of a scattergun approach.  The alt-right does seem to have a certain appeal for teenage boys.


It’s just exploring ideas tbh, going from one video to another. If he was only doing that with the alt-right stuff it’d be more concerning, but it’s as likely to be anything that catches his interest.


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2018)

Edie said:


> Because I liked that he said bimble handled it the right way? She did fwiw.


No, because you normalise his racist narrative. They are literally trying to look like humans and you help this racist by reacting in this way.


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## Edie (Jul 27, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> No, because you normalise his racist narrative. They are literally trying to look like humans and you help this racist by reacting in this way.


Jesus fucking Christ he’s 13 years old, he’s not a racist. He’s just exploring the internet like every other kid his age. You think kids don’t watch alt-right and david ike and Jordan Peterson etc? Of course they do. He’s not a racist though, your dead wrong about that.


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2018)

I'm on about the far more than 13 year old rsf. That's his target audience though.


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## andysays (Jul 27, 2018)

Edie said:


> Jesus fucking Christ he’s 13 years old, he’s not a racist. He’s just exploring the internet like every other kid his age. You think kids don’t watch alt-right and david ike and Jordan Peterson etc? Of course they do. He’s not a racist though, your dead wrong about that.



You saying that this Rsf twat is your 13 year old son?

Maybe you should consider blocking his internet access for a while and having a chat with him...


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## Edie (Jul 27, 2018)

andysays said:


> You saying that this Rsf twat is your 13 year old son?
> 
> Maybe you should consider blocking his internet access for a while and having a chat with him...


Wtf of course I’m not saying that. As if rsf is a 13yo they are clearly an adult. This is getting both confusing and a bit nasty so I’m out of this debate.


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## ddraig (Jul 27, 2018)




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## Edie (Jul 27, 2018)

Crossed wires, butchers quoted one post by mistake then changed it. Regardless I think I’m better just reading.


----------



## andysays (Jul 27, 2018)

Edie said:


> Crossed wires, butchers quoted one post by mistake then changed it. Regardless I think I’m better just reading.


OK, apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick or added to confusion.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 27, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> _Soft thatcher voice._



Even if that were true, would that really mean that everything I said could just be disregarded without consideration and that anyone considering something I said could be called stupid or worse? That would be closed minded bigotry in my book...


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## butchersapron (Jul 27, 2018)

Of course it means everything that you post should be marked.


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## Rsf (Jul 27, 2018)

ddraig said:


> Do you think there should be consequences for what people say? What do you think you "can't say"?



In my opinion what you shouldn’t be allowed to say is as follows:

You should not be allowed to make a creditable threat to do something that is illegal. As, if the treat is credible, you are expressing the intention of committing a crime.

You should not be allowed to incite/encourage anyone to commit a crime on your behalf.

You should not be allowed to cause fear or alarm without reason (I.e shouting fire in a crowded theatre, unless there is a fire).

The only other restriction on free speech that I agree with is our liable laws.

This is what I believe the law should be, not what the law is. I believe free speech should be legalised in the UK. 

And to return to my point, social consequences and legal consequences are not the same thing. If speech has legal consequences then, by definition, your are not “free” to do it.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 27, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Even if that were true, would that really mean that everything I said could just be disregarded without consideration and that anyone considering something I said could be called stupid or worse? That would be closed minded bigotry in my book...




That view about gangs you posted few page ago and said people should read the link and support a group that was linked.

Who were they again?


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 27, 2018)

Rsf said:


> In my opinion what you shouldn’t be allowed to say is as follows:
> 
> You should not be allowed to make a creditable threat to do something that is illegal. As, if the treat is credible, you are expressing the intention of committing a crime.
> 
> ...



What's you take on the right to screw up the outcome of an ongoing court proceedings?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 27, 2018)

Rsf said:


> In my opinion what you shouldn’t be allowed to say is as follows:
> 
> You should not be allowed to make a creditable threat to do something that is illegal. As, if the treat is credible, you are expressing the intention of committing a crime.
> 
> ...


So what is being said outside of these parameters that is unfairly treated and being stopped from saying what they want to say?


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## editor (Jul 27, 2018)

Rsf said:


> As, if the treat is credible, you are expressing the intention of committing a crime.


I love a credible treat.


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## 8ball (Jul 27, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> What's you take on the right to screw up the outcome of an ongoing court proceedings?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 27, 2018)

editor said:


> I love a credible treat.



Only thing better is an _in_credible treat.


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## Jon-of-arc (Jul 28, 2018)

Rsf said:


> In my opinion what you shouldn’t be allowed to say is as follows:
> 
> You should not be allowed to make a creditable threat to do something that is illegal. As, if the treat is credible, you are expressing the intention of committing a crime.
> 
> ...



You think the contempt of court laws that Tommy broke are just a waste of time, then?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 28, 2018)

Just a little bit more on some of the strange alliances around the TR campaign  

There's a rally today opposite New Scotland Yard organised by a number of Justice Campaigns :

The main campaign is Fighting for Justice which is the three boys who were tragically killed by a driver who the campaign alleges was a terrorist attack. For what ever reason the campaign has allied its self and been influenced by the alt right.  Key activist is a pro Trump, anti Islam gobshite called James Goddard who uses a couple of White Pendragon people as 'common law' advisers.

The speakers list for the rally includes: Justice4 Ambrose whose twitter acount retweets allegations that Thomas Mair didn't murder Jo Cox,Tim Scott who was leader of Perdiga for 2 days and who actually fought against ISIS, a Speaker from the White Pendragons ,Danny Tommo another TR activist, Justice4Jack a campaign for an investigation into the death of a convicted drug smuggler in a prison in Indonesia,Amy 'Bacon lady ' an anti Islam activist who used to go on Britain First marches and attends speakers corner, Eddie Isok another Speakers Corner activist. 

There's been a very recent falling out which led to Luke Nash Jones ,( a UKIP activist who runs Make Britain Great Again including merchandising and who was one of the contributors to the Free TR event) ,  pulling out from speaking. The video's worth a watch if only for his realisation how poisonous and volatile this section of politics is and the somewhat bizarre ending


There is a mixture of very hurt damaged people mourning the loss of loved ones convinced that there has been a cover up or that the Police and state has failed them and far right/alt right political activists who believe that the state is corrupt and is covering things up . The further there are no answers to their desperate questions the more they get drawn into conspiracy theory.


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## Ax^ (Jul 28, 2018)

so the Main rally has been arranged because 3 boys were run over by a drunk/stoned driver and they are trying to say it was a terrorist attack

the driver was Hindu btw


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 28, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Just a little bit more on some of the strange alliances around the TR campaign
> 
> There's a rally today opposite New Scotland Yard organised by a number of Justice Campaigns :
> 
> ...



I've been recently reading 'Strange Days Indeed,' Francis Wheen's book about the 1970s. I was only 16 when the seventies ended, but I can say with confidence that the decade was definitely no stranger than the one we're living in now.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 28, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> I've been recently reading 'Strange Days Indeed,' Francis Wheen's book about the 1970s. I was only 16 when the seventies ended, but I can say with confidence that the decade was definitely no stranger than the one we're living in now.


I'll have to read that.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 28, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Just a little bit more on some of the strange alliances around the TR campaign



Thanks very much for posting that. The Luke Nash Jones video is exactly the sort of thing I had feared, the real far right mingling with a wider nationalist/patriotic movement. Obviously as a member of UKIP Luke has to be careful with the company he keeps as he would be slung out of UKIP for sharing a stage with actual racists. But I think many people are just ignoring these warnings about actual BNP type racists now because they have heard so many people unjustly smeared as racist in the past that they no longer believe any of it. I read that the violent and fascist far left had been smearing and threatening Sarah Champion now to the point where she needs police protection from these thugs.

I believe Tommy’s appeal has been heard by the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales and two of his associates so perhaps he will be released from prison soon? Any predictions how that will go? My own is that he is guilty of contempt but tommy is treated by the criminal justice system far harsher than  anyone else (nobody else gets locked up for lending a family member money for a deposit) and a very senior judge will say he was treated unfairly harshly and free him.

I have no idea if there is any merit at all in these claims that death by dangerous driving was actually a terrorist attack but when so many people in power have covered up grooming gangs just the past and are still clearly trying to silence those like Sarah Champion speaking about them its no wonder trust has broken down so badly. David Kurten was speaking to RT about it recently. I agree with pretty much everything he said:


One of the large YouTubers that joined UKIP (Sargon of Akkad) published a video this weekend called ‘Western Sharia Police’ that has had over 200,000 views already with a like to dislike ratio of over 100 to 1. 


It seems to me that lots of people no longer trust the U.K. police to apply the same law equally to everyone with total unbiased impartiality. In these conditions many people will suspect conspiracy even if there is no evidence of one. I think political correctness, censorship and the criminalisation of speech is a large part of how we got here. It’s a truly depressing state of affairs. I also believe we are about 9 years into a forth turning cycle of history when trust in institutions is at its lowest.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 28, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> so the Main rally has been arranged because 3 boys were run over by a drunk/stoned driver and they are trying to say it was a terrorist attack
> 
> the driver was Hindu btw


Do you have a link about the driver being a Hindu? That seems too crazy to believe, even for them.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 28, 2018)

*round of applause
mask's proper slipped now eh


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jul 28, 2018)

After Thatcher admiration and Bannon praising RSF is now pimping Bannon’s favourite “Fourth Turning” Strauss-Howe BS......
The Crackpot Theories of Stephen Bannon’s Favorite Authors
The delusion and beguilement is strong with this one.


----------



## bimble (Jul 28, 2018)

Rsf said:


> .. I also believe we are about 9 years into a forth turning cycle of history when trust in institutions is at its lowest.


You are a Bannonite idiot.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 28, 2018)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> After Thatcher admiration and Bannon praising RSF is now pimping Bannon’s favourite “Fourth Turning” Strauss-Howe BS......
> The Crackpot Theories of Stephen Bannon’s Favorite Authors
> The delusion and beguilement is strong with this one.



Their first book I read was Generations, the history of America’s future after seeing it discussed on a program called ‘hard talk’ in the late 1990’s. I didn’t believe it then but found it interesting and waited to see if they authors were right, they were. That’s been clear for at least five years now. Generational theory has only recently been popularised in the U.K. but it was popularised in the USA by Vice President Al Gore in the 1990’s, he was so impressed by the original work he sent a copy to ever member of Congress. Generational theories is an interpretation of history not a political theory. Steve Bannons belief is that which ever side wins in the crisis era leading to the high will dominate for two generations until the next unravelling era. He is correct if history is anything to go by.

Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.


----------



## YouSir (Jul 28, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Their first book I read was Generations, the history of America’s future after seeing it discussed on a program called ‘hard talk’ in the late 1990’s. I didn’t believe it then but found it interesting and waited to see if they authors were right, they were. That’s been clear for at least five years now. Generational theory has only recently been popularised in the U.K. but it was popularised in the USA by Vice President Al Gore in the 1990’s, he was so impressed by the original work he sent a copy to ever member of Congress. Generational theories is an interpretation of history not a political theory. Steve Bannons belief is that which ever side wins in the crisis era leading to the high will dominate for two generations until the next unravelling era. He is correct if history is anything to go by.
> 
> Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.



First book I read had talking animals, as I recall. You must have had a dismal childhood.


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 28, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 28, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 28, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.



No idea why you bother, no. Nor why it has taken you so long to wrap your tomfoolery around so many inch by inch mask dropping posts. What a bloody waste of time.

Intellectualised fascism is still fascism. You know that don't you?


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## RD2003 (Jul 28, 2018)

It seems to me that lots of people no longer trust the U.K. police to apply the same law equally to everyone with total unbiased impartiality. In these conditions many people will suspect conspiracy even if there is no evidence of one. I think political correctness, censorship and the criminalisation of speech is a large part of how we got here. It’s a truly depressing state of affairs. I also believe we are about 9 years into a forth turning cycle of history when trust in institutions is at its lowest.[/QUOTE]

Did the police ever 'apply the same law equally to everyone'...? Or was it always dependent on social class when it came down to it? The difference now is that, for a variety of reasons not too divorced from lunatics and charlatans having access to a wide audience on the internet, more people are inclined to look for easy and simplistic reasons and supposed solutions based on their own personal bigotries and preferences. In other words, the quirks of their own personalities.

What exactly is this 'forth (sic) turning cycle of history.' And what were the other three? (Another feature of the internet age-the coming into their own of pseudo-intellectuals.)


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## Libertad (Jul 28, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I give up.



See ya.


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 28, 2018)

Libertad said:


> See ya.


I think he should stay. He hasn't been overtly antagonistic, and how else can we learn how these arseholes think?


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## Puddy_Tat (Jul 28, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> What exactly is this 'forth (sic) turning cycle



something to do with the falkirk wheel?


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## YouSir (Jul 28, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> I think he should stay. He hasn't been overtly antagonistic, and how else can we learn how these arseholes think?



10 minutes on Reddit.


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## RD2003 (Jul 29, 2018)

YouSir said:


> 10 minutes on Reddit.


Fair enough, but I only visit this board, and don't think we should be afraid of debate with political enemies. What else is the point?


----------



## YouSir (Jul 29, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> Fair enough, but I only visit this board, and don't think we should be afraid of debate with political enemies. What else is the point?



There is no point, not really. Occasionally you can glean the odd gem of wisdom or source from some people, otherwise it's no more rewarding or better here than Twitter. On the politics section that is, I believe the other subs have their own thing. Either way, if you want to see some pretend clever racism it's all over right now, don't need it delivered to your door.


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## classicdish (Jul 29, 2018)

Rsf - you want rational debate?

How do you know who has been sending the threats to Sarah Champion?

What is the evidence that the dangerous driving deaths had any connection to terrorism? Re. the driver's religion: his surname suggests his family is from the Hindu Kshatriya community in Gujarat, India. His first name is also Hindu.

I'd guess that the Sargon video has "a like to dislike ratio of over 100 to 1" because the vast majority of people who watch his stuff are already sympathic/fans/subscribers. It doesn't mean anything really.


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## YouSir (Jul 29, 2018)

classicdish said:


> Rsf - *you want rational debate?*
> 
> How do you know who has been sending the threats to Sarah Champion?
> 
> ...



Of course they don't, they want their cleverness rewarded with affirmation, or to cause offence. Either one works.


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## classicdish (Jul 29, 2018)

Rsf said:


> There are a lot of morons here who I would call the ‘looney left’ that are actually intellectually incapable of making rational arguments and have nothing else other than to resort to shaming, violence, oppression and censorship.


Can you link to some of these posts please?

If you can't back this up by linking to the specific posts and/or posters it suggests that you are just trolling - making a vague blanket statement aimed at provoking an angry reaction, so you can play the victim, amuse yourself seeing how much you can rile people and disrupt discussion and see how many alt-right/alt-light links you can post and figures you can name-check before you finally go too far.


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## krtek a houby (Jul 29, 2018)

Rsf said:


> There are a lot of morons here who I would call the ‘looney left’ that are actually intellectually incapable of making rational arguments and have nothing else other than to resort to shaming, violence, oppression and censorship. Does that ever change anyone’s mind? I think not. Those people will likely never achieve anything and are often too thick, to arrogant or to sheltered and privileged to understand that the exact same things they advocate using against others could be used against them by a movement far stronger than they are.



You could also say that veiled threats of nebulous movements flexing their muscles isn't going to achieve much, either. And who here is censoring and oppressing you, that's a bit of a dishonest accusation. 

What is the message that you want to put across?


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2018)

There isn't one. He probably doesn't even believe this shit and even if he does that's incidental, it's a pretty obvious though so far relatively successful troll.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2018)

I know cos I've done this shit myself on rev left. 

Obviously with far more style, wit and charm and without pretending to be a racist, sorry non racist right wing UKIP nationalist lol


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## JimW (Jul 29, 2018)

Champion of free speech but anyone who disagrees with me must be a bigot. Fascist cry-arses.


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2018)

You're violating his safe space you left wing fascist


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## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2018)

Right and left identity politickers are just mirror images of one another. Neither can handle dissenting views or debate. 

Real right wingers that I meet in person (as opposed to tedious unoriginal trolls like the one on this thread) don't know what to do if you argue the points and do so from a proper pro wc position. That's why they go off like this.


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## Rsf (Jul 29, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> I think he should stay. He hasn't been overtly antagonistic, and how else can we learn how these arseholes think?



Oh I’ll be back, now and again. It’s just that I won’t be debating with morons anymore. You’re the minority on this site, you haven’t exactly been friendly or polite but most people here clearly aren’t even interested in learning what others think and are even less interested in why, as I said they are either too bigoted or intellectually incapable of the effort required to see things from another’s point of view. That alone marks you as a little different to most of the posters.


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## RD2003 (Jul 29, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Oh I’ll be back, now and again. It’s just that I won’t be debating with morons anymore. You’re the minority on this site, you haven’t exactly been friendly or polite but most people here clearly aren’t even interested in learning what others think and are even less interested in why, as I said they are either too bigoted or intellectually incapable of the effort required to see things from another’s point of view. That alone marks you as a little different to most of the posters.


Well for one thing I'm still waiting for you to answer my question from days ago when you said that the rise of right-wing populism is unstoppable, and I asked you where you thought it was all leading.


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## Treacle Toes (Jul 29, 2018)

> Oh why do I bother, there are clearly too many bigots here incapable of rational debate. Almost like they never grew out of student politics. I give up. I’ll come back and laugh from time to time.





Rsf said:


> Oh I’ll be back, now and again. *It’s just that I won’t be debating with morons anymore. You’re the minority on this site*, you haven’t exactly been friendly or polite but most people here clearly aren’t even interested in learning what others think and are even less interested in why, as I said they are either too bigoted or intellectually incapable of the effort required to see things from another’s point of view. *That alone marks you as a little different to most of the posters*.



_You are not like those others, you are special._

/creepy


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 29, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Thanks very much for posting that. The Luke Nash Jones video is exactly the sort of thing I had feared, the real far right mingling with a wider nationalist/patriotic movement. Obviously as a member of UKIP Luke has to be careful with the company he keeps as he would be slung out of UKIP for sharing a stage with actual racists. But I think many people are just ignoring these warnings about actual BNP type racists now because they have heard so many people unjustly smeared as racist in the past that they no longer believe any of it. I read that the violent and fascist far left had been smearing and threatening Sarah Champion now to the point where she needs police protection from these thugs.
> 
> I believe Tommy’s appeal has been heard by the Lord Chief Justice of England and Wales and two of his associates so perhaps he will be released from prison soon? Any predictions how that will go? My own is that he is guilty of contempt but tommy is treated by the criminal justice system far harsher than  anyone else (nobody else gets locked up for lending a family member money for a deposit) and a very senior judge will say he was treated unfairly harshly and free him.
> 
> ...



Western Sharia Police?

From the guy that sent a rape threat to a female MP who had survived sexual assault? From the guy who emailed a university "ban social justice courses" (that's ALL he wrote). From the guy who was, and possibly still is, friends with a person who thinks child abuse is ok and advocates the murder of journalists. From the guy who bandies around the term 'regressive left' but, when called out, cannot actually explain what that means? From the guy who thinks a community of video gamers bullying a woman on the basis of lies is acceptable. From the guy who thinks black people are ok to call the N word. From the guy who continually smears feminism without any idea what it means, what it does, and without himself doing anything to campaign positively on any topic ever?

Are you fucking serious?


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 29, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Oh I’ll be back, now and again. It’s just that I won’t be debating with morons anymore. You’re the minority on this site, you haven’t exactly been friendly or polite but most people here clearly aren’t even interested in learning what others think and are even less interested in why, as I said they are either too bigoted or intellectually incapable of the effort required to see things from another’s point of view. That alone marks you as a little different to most of the posters.





*gets coat*


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## Rsf (Jul 29, 2018)

RD2003 said:


> Well for one thing I'm still waiting for you to answer my question from days ago when you said that the rise of right-wing populism is unstoppable, and I asked you where you thought it was all leading.



The Forth Turning is the name of a book that expanded upon an earlier book about generational theory. It was written by two American historians, was popularised amongst the US political elite by Al Gore, but is widely believed on both the right and left in America.

It’s the idea that while history never exactly repeats its self the general moods do repeat themselves, typically in four districts eras each lasting a generation with an entire cycle being roughly the length of a human life.

The authors of the theory said the last fourth turning was from the Great Depression to the end of WWII after which a new political consensus and a new high arose. 

Those who subscribe to this theory would say that the financial crisis was the start of the fourth turning of the current cycle, they might say that the 2010’s feels like the 1930’s and the Blair era felt like the 1920’s boom era if that makes sense? It’s not a prediction that any specific event in the past will happen again. 

They believe when a generation grows up they are affected by the conditions they grow up in and this gives different generations different life perspectives and lasting personality traits,  so that when each generation enters middle age and is in control each will shape society differently. The authors of the fourth turning predicted baby boomers selfish individualism would make life difficult for the young and the millennials in middle age would be the next great generation and drag the west out of its self made crisis.

So to answer your questions: 

The populist right are unstoppable because of the inflexiblity of the boomer generation, they will not compromise or have much pragmatism at all. Therefore the things that are driving populism will continue and Brexit is at risk of turning into a complete shit show for the same reason. 

Almost Nothing good is likely to come from right wing populism in and of itself but it will force needed change.

After a crisis a new generation comes along, sorts it out with a new consensus, the consensus stands firm for two generations then in the third it unravels and goes into a crisis. Thatcher major and Blair are seen as the third turning, the unraveling of the post war welfare state consensus.


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## bimble (Jul 29, 2018)

i never knew those two are responsible for the term Millenials. Current crop is the 'Homeland Generation', according to them.


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## Rsf (Jul 29, 2018)

bimble said:


> i never knew those two are responsible for the term Millenials. Current crop is the 'Homeland Generation', according to them.


Yeah it pretty much all came from two American historians who first published their theory in the early 1990’s. I’ve followed it since the late 1990’s and used to contribute to the now defunct forth turning forums. The American political establishment bought into the idea early on though. Believe it or not the marketing industry that did more to popularise it than the politicans though, prior to Strauss-Howe the common belief was that young people would eventually grow up to be very similar to their elders. Generational theory told marketers this simply wasn’t true and that they could predict what would be wanted more accurately than that. It’s an interesting theory, one which I believe holds a lot of merit, but the fact that Steve Bannon mentions it in a movie means that one simply has to screech hysterically and foam at the mouth to anyone that mentions it according to a few far left morons. The ‘looney left’ is such an apt description...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> _You are not like those others, you are special._
> 
> /creepy


Grooming.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 29, 2018)

i honestly can't even tell what body part that is


----------



## Celyn (Jul 29, 2018)

What?   . Is that a crown of thorns Jesus-y thing? I hope that is some sort of fake. How crazy can people be?  

ETA - does TR have views about people from the Middle East?


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## RD2003 (Jul 29, 2018)

SpineyNorman said:


> Grooming.


Flattery will get him nowhere.


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## Red Sky (Jul 29, 2018)

Rsf said:


> The Forth Turning is the name of a book that expanded upon an earlier book about generational theory. It was written by two American historians, was popularised amongst the US political elite by Al Gore, but is widely believed on both the right and left in America.
> 
> It’s the idea that while history never exactly repeats its self the general moods do repeat themselves, typically in four districts eras each lasting a generation with an entire cycle being roughly the length of a human life.
> 
> ...



How universal is this template supposed to be?  Does it apply equally to 19th century Austria and the Aztec empire?


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 29, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Almost Nothing good is likely to come from right wing populism in and of itself but it will force needed change.



But what will this needed change consist of?


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 29, 2018)

Celyn said:


> What?   . Is that a crown of thorns Jesus-y thing?


Note the word “prophet” in fake Arabic script below 

(As noted by someone on “worst tattoos ever”  )


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> i honestly can't even tell what body part that is




I think it's a calf but where the fuck was the pic taken? Looks like a weird fetish chamber. So someone told me... 

I also thought he was wearing a strange spaceman helmet but I think that's meant to be the sun. 

Can't be real can it?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 29, 2018)

Also looks like he's either got a gigantic zit or he's dribbling from the left corner of his mouth as you look at it.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 29, 2018)

SpineyNorman said:


> I think it's a calf but where the fuck was the pic taken? Looks like a weird fetish chamber. So someone told me...
> 
> I also thought he was wearing a strange spaceman helmet but I think that's meant to be the sun.
> 
> Can't be real can it?


Oh yes it can 

Because Tommy Christ is the People's Princess


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 29, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> How universal is this template supposed to be?  Does it apply equally to 19th century Austria and the Aztec empire?


I suppose if you just use the historical events that suit you you can adapt it to anything. Anyway if its  something 'proven' thats going to happen we can all save our energy and watch it unfold on TV . Theres no need for anyone to do anything if the future is on auto pilot.


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 29, 2018)

I was once accused of basing my political outlook on the latest book I happened to have read (don't think it's at all true ), but it looks like it might be the case with rsf.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 30, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> i honestly can't even tell what body part that is



I think it's his face.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Oh I’ll be back, now and again.


Can't. Fucking. Wait.


----------



## Poi E (Jul 30, 2018)

SpineyNorman said:


> I think it's a calf but where the fuck was the pic taken? Looks like a weird fetish chamber. So someone told me...



Probably prison, dude.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 30, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> How universal is this template supposed to be?  Does it apply equally to 19th century Austria and the Aztec empire?


Most cultures have believed/acknowledged that there is a rhythmic or seasonal nature to history. The Romans even had a term for it. Christianity changed that mind set though because in Christian theology time is a linear concept with a beginning and leading to an ‘end of days’ for everyone, after which there is heaven and hell as a fixed eternal state. So the church used to see time as a journey towards a fixed end state. Communism and other utopian ideas that think they can control society enough to implement and keep a near utopia also tend to see things more linearly. They don’t imagine that there will ever be a break down or forty turning after their glorious revolutions. Other countries are in different parts of the cycle and it will manifest differently if the country is not democratic and ruled by just a few people. Are you actually interested in a discussion though? Or just another lefty bigot incapable of reason or debate?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Most cultures have believed/acknowledged that there is a rhythmic or seasonal nature to history. The Romans even had a term for it. Christianity changed that mind set though because in Christian theology time is a linear concept with a beginning and leading to an ‘end of days’ for everyone, after which there is heaven and hell as a fixed eternal state. So the church used to see time as a journey towards a fixed end state. Communism and other utopian ideas that think they can control society enough to implement and keep a near utopia also tend to see things more linearly. They don’t imagine that there will ever be a break down or forty turning after their glorious revolutions. Other countries are in different parts of the cycle and it will manifest differently if the country is not democratic and ruled by just a few people. Are you actually interested in a discussion though? Or just another lefty bigot incapable of reason or debate?


Clever little device you've got there. If you're incapable of addressing someone's point say they're a lefty bigot incapable of reason or debate then you can just dismiss them. 

Just like the student identity politics left. Anyone with awkward questions is a bigot to be kept out of your safe space.

Special little snowflake rsf keeps getting triggered.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 30, 2018)

Plus they're not actually interested in debate, not really.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 30, 2018)

mmm. The wisdom of pre modern thinking. Sounds familiar.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2018)

This drivel is what people who've never read theory think that theory is.

_Partridge theory_, in fact


----------



## Rsf (Jul 30, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> This drivel is what people who've never read theory think that theory is.
> 
> _Partridge theory_, in fact


So, tommy could be getting out of jail this week, eh?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> So, tommy could be getting out of jail this week, eh?


WUT? I know you think you're that much cleverer than the rest of us, but perhaps you'd be able to patronise us with a little of the detail behind your enormous leaps of intuition?


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Most cultures have believed/acknowledged that there is a rhythmic or seasonal nature to history. The Romans even had a term for it. Christianity changed that mind set though because in Christian theology time is a linear concept with a beginning and leading to an ‘end of days’ for everyone, after which there is heaven and hell as a fixed eternal state. So the church used to see time as a journey towards a fixed end state. Communism and other utopian ideas that think they can control society enough to implement and keep a near utopia also tend to see things more linearly. They don’t imagine that there will ever be a break down or forty turning after their glorious revolutions. Other countries are in different parts of the cycle and it will manifest differently if the country is not democratic and ruled by just a few people. Are you actually interested in a discussion though? Or just another lefty bigot incapable of reason or debate?


Sorry but this is drivel. One of the very few things i know about is the misuse of the idea of 'cyclic time' / that eternal return concept that you seem to be vaguely waving your hands about. 
Also a brief look clearly shows they were only ever talking about 'anglo-american' history over the last 500 years (picking out whatever bits they felt like and leaving the rest).


----------



## Rsf (Jul 30, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> mmm. The wisdom of pre modern thinking. Sounds familiar.


Well Marxist thinking might be modern, but as ideas go it is one of the worst ever and lead to the death of hundreds of millions. And yes real communism has been tried before. The USSR was real socialism. 

PS. How do you feel about the fact Tommy might be out of prison soon?


----------



## teqniq (Jul 30, 2018)

Wrt to Stephen Yaxley Lennon and his ilk, I quite like this sentiment.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Well Marxist thinking might be modern, but as ideas go it is one of the worst ever and lead to the death of hundreds of millions. And yes real communism has been tried before. The USSR was real socialism.
> 
> PS. How do you feel about the fact Tommy might be out of prison soon?


How did marxism lead to the deaths of hundreds of millions? 

Is it a good thing to have tommy robinson walking around spouting ignorance and jeopardising serious criminal trials?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> <snip>
> 
> PS. How do you feel about the fact Tommy might be out of prison soon?


so you're now a supporter of law breakers?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Well Marxist thinking might be modern, but as ideas go it is one of the worst ever and lead to the death of hundreds of millions. And yes real communism has been tried before. The USSR was real socialism.
> 
> PS. How do you feel about the fact Tommy might be out of prison soon?


did you know the romans had a word for a bundle of rods tied together? fascinating stuff


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 30, 2018)

existentialist said:


> WUT? I know you think you're that much cleverer than the rest of us, but perhaps you'd be able to patronise us with a little of the detail behind your enormous leaps of intuition?


And why we should give a shit even if it's true.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> . How do you feel about the fact Tommy might be out of prison soon?


Nobody cares.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2018)

bimble said:


> Sorry but this is drivel. One of the very few things i know about is the misuse of the idea of 'cyclic time' / that eternal return concept that you seem to be vaguely waving your hands about.


Most influentially proposed by a fascist as well.


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> PS. How do you feel about the fact Tommy might be out of prison soon?


ok i'll bite.Personally don't care one way or the other really how long he sits in prison, perhaps him getting out sooner would help reduce the martyr narrative. But I but do feel some fear when i read about Bannon perhaps considering him as a figurehead for this new project of his.


----------



## JimW (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> PS. How do you feel about the fact Tommy might be out of prison soon?


It'll be a disaster of epic proportions for all right-thinking people everywhere.
Or maybe it won't matter much one way or the other outside a small bunchof his arse lickers like you. We can get back to ignoring him and he can get back to working on his next trick to get in the papers.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 30, 2018)

bimble I think maybe he may have too much baggage for Bannon's purposes. In any event he is talking to Johnson, Gove and Rees-Moog.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 30, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Most influentially proposed by a fascist as well.


Al Gore? Well, I suppose anyone the right of Stalin is a fascist around here... it’s actually pretty funny, this site, it’s so off the wall and nobody seems to realise it.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 30, 2018)

teqniq said:


> bimble I think maybe he may have too much baggage for Bannon's purposes. In any event he is talking to Johnson, Gove and Rees-Moog.


Are they all fascists too now? Delusional...


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Al Gore? Well, I suppose anyone the right of Stalin is a fascist around here... it’s actually pretty funny, this site, it’s so off the wall and nobody seems to realise it.


No, Eliade.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Al Gore? Well, I suppose anyone the right of Stalin is a fascist around here... it’s actually pretty funny, this site, it’s so off the wall and nobody seems to realise it.


No, Mircea Eliade.

Come on, i thought you were a proper intellectual?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 30, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> No, Mircea Elaide.
> 
> Come on, i thought you were a proper intellectual?


----------



## teqniq (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Are they all fascists too now? Delusional...


Where did I say that? They are all however very much to the right of the tory party and shameless opportunists to boot.


----------



## Rsf (Jul 30, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> No, Mircea Eliade.
> 
> Come on, i thought you were a proper intellectual?


I’m not an intellectual, I didn’t say I was smart, I said (and based this on the near constant stream of abuse I received here) that most of the posters on this site were morons who were incapable of engaging in rational debate without resorting to insults and that successful political leaders had noticed that this tends to happen when ones opponents had run out of rational arguments.

I also said that the far left are a deeply unpleasant bunch of totalitarian ideologues who are every bit as loathesome and intolerant as the far right that they claim to despise and yet have so much in common with. I also said I’m not going to put much effort into posting and I will mainly just be gloating whenever I’m around from now on. So bye for today I guess


----------



## ddraig (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I’m not an intellectual, I didn’t say I was smart, I said (and based this on the near constant stream of abuse I received here) that most of the posters on this site were morons who were incapable of engaging in rational debate without resorting to insults and that successful political leaders had noticed that this tends to happen when ones opponents had run out of rational arguments.
> 
> I also said that the far left are a deeply unpleasant bunch of totalitarian ideologues who are every bit as loathesome and intolerant as the far right that they claim to despise and yet have so much in common with. I also said I’m not going to put much effort into posting and I will mainly just be gloating whenever I’m around from now on. So bye for today I guess


What abuse where?


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> * successful political leaders* had noticed that this tends to happen when ones opponents had run out of rational arguments.



Could you give me some examples please.


----------



## Don Troooomp (Jul 30, 2018)

Locked up for speaking the truth?
Ner, he was locked up because he's a silly cunt that broke the law in an attempt to make an especially idiotic political point.


----------



## Toast Rider (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I also said that the far left are a deeply unpleasant bunch of totalitarian ideologues who are every bit as loathesome and intolerant as the far right that they claim to despise and yet have so much in common with. I also said I’m not going to put much effort into posting and I will mainly just be gloating whenever I’m around from now on. So bye for today I guess



What are your feelings re: Anita Sarkeesian?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 30, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Could you give me some examples please.



I believe he quoted Thatcher earlier on this point.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I’m not an intellectual, I didn’t say I was smart, I said (and based this on the near constant stream of abuse I received here) that most of the posters on this site were morons who were incapable of engaging in rational debate without resorting to insults and that successful political leaders had noticed that this tends to happen when ones opponents had run out of rational arguments.
> 
> I also said that the far left are a deeply unpleasant bunch of totalitarian ideologues who are every bit as loathesome and intolerant as the far right that they claim to despise and yet have so much in common with. I also said I’m not going to put much effort into posting and I will mainly just be gloating whenever I’m around from now on. So bye for today I guess


Your mum is a moron who's incapable of engaging in rational debate without resorting to insults.


----------



## RD2003 (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I also said that the far left are a deeply unpleasant bunch of totalitarian ideologues who are every bit as loathesome and intolerant as the far right that they claim to despise and yet have so much in common with. I also said I’m not going to put much effort into posting and I will mainly just be gloating whenever I’m around from now on. So bye for today I guess



Gloating why? All you've done so far is rail against an imaginary enemy, and aside from regurgitating somebody else's arguments (gleaned from a book which is nothing more than one of probably thousands purporting to explain our times and their place in history, and all of them saying different things), basically fail to answer anything put to you.

And you need to drop the obsession with totalitarianism. It never really existed in the literal sense in the first place, and isn't coming back in any form.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Most cultures have believed/acknowledged that there is a rhythmic or seasonal nature to history. The Romans even had a term for it. Christianity changed that mind set though because in Christian theology time is a linear concept with a beginning and leading to an ‘end of days’ for everyone, after which there is heaven and hell as a fixed eternal state. So the church used to see time as a journey towards a fixed end state. Communism and other utopian ideas that think they can control society enough to implement and keep a near utopia also tend to see things more linearly. They don’t imagine that there will ever be a break down or forty turning after their glorious revolutions. Other countries are in different parts of the cycle and it will manifest differently if the country is not democratic and ruled by just a few people. Are you actually interested in a discussion though? Or just another lefty bigot incapable of reason or debate?



Communist Jews ...24 Protocols of Zion ? .... Shit troll .


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Communist Jews ...24 Protocols of Zion ? .... Shit troll .


eh? what are you on about now. Rsf didn't say anything about teh joos so please give it a rest, we are tired.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Jul 30, 2018)

For someone who claims to have been on the left rsf appears totally ignorant, like most right wing commentators, of the diversity of thought on the left in general and more specifically round here. To the new right/alt right we are all actual or closet “Stalinists”, despite the fact that actual current Stalinists have a lot more in common with the far right than most of the diverse left of centre posters on here.  
The journalistic “looney left”/“overgrown students” trope is just tiresome drivel. Ten minutes looking at actual debates on other topics on here would show the diversity of views, betraying the image of intolerant leftist groupthink.   On the other hand the left are expected to recognise a veritable rainbow of opinion on the right with no responsibility taken for any actions of one part by any other.
Most of us on here would be equally likely to end up in prison, dead or in exile were a fascist or Stalinist regime, or even an “emergency powers” authoritarian capitalist regime to be in place in Britain. 
If rsf is not a troll, he/she should get a clue about the real views and activities of left currents represented on here before dismissing most of us with daft RW media labels.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 30, 2018)

still pondering if its degsy again


you all morons who won't debate without calling people names


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jul 30, 2018)

bimble said:


> eh? what are you on about now. Rsf didn't say anything about teh joos so please give it a rest, we are tired.



sorry your majesty


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Most cultures have believed/acknowledged that there is a rhythmic or seasonal nature to history. The Romans even had a term for it.



...which was?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 30, 2018)

mojo pixy said:


> ...which was?


Welease Woger.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 30, 2018)

SpineyNorman said:


> And why we should give a shit even if it's true.


Well, yes, there is that, too...


----------



## existentialist (Jul 30, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Al Gore? Well, I suppose anyone the right of Stalin is a fascist around here... it’s actually pretty funny, this site, it’s so off the wall and nobody seems to realise it.


And yet you're still here...


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 30, 2018)

bimble said:


> eh? what are you on about now. Rsf didn't say anything about teh joos so please give it a rest, we are tired.



Are you seriously saying that you haven't been expecting them to though?  I certainly have given the tripe they have been posting and I imagine that is what Ralph Llama was picking up on too.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jul 30, 2018)

bimble said:


> ok i'll bite.Personally don't care one way or the other really how long he sits in prison, perhaps him getting out sooner would help reduce the martyr narrative. But I but do feel some fear when i read about Bannon perhaps considering him as a figurehead for this new project of his.


At the time I assumed the sentence was judged so that, with good behaviour, he would be out after the related September trial his breach of reporting restrictions would potentially have predjudiced.


----------



## bimble (Jul 30, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Are you seriously saying that you haven't been expecting them to though?  I certainly have given the tripe they have been posting and I imagine that is what Ralph Llama was picking up on too.


I haven't tbh, didn't get that impression. Think this Rsf is probably more of a Bannon type  (Islam versus 'the judeo-christian West' etc). In any case think its stupid what ralph said, had nothing to do with anything that's been said and don't think totally baseless accusations of antisemitism are going to help anybody especially now.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 31, 2018)

bimble said:


> I haven't tbh, didn't get that impression. Think this Rsf is probably more of a Bannon type  (Islam versus 'the judeo-christian West' etc). In any case think its stupid what ralph said, had nothing to do with anything that's been said and *don't think totally baseless accusations of antisemitism are going to help anybody especially now.*



But that isn't what happened. What RL posted was akin to posting 'yeah, yeah, what next the protocols of Zion?' That isn't an accusation of antisemitism, it's more dismissing their drivel and alikening it to conspiraloonery.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Jul 31, 2018)

Indeed that is what I was presuming, possibly wrongly, so I`ll take it back. 

Sorry for presuming you are on the cusp of right wing extremism RSF, if you want to continue your debate, please do, and i`m sure you will find stimulating responses that are not just rude assumptions like mine.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jul 31, 2018)

BBC Two - Newsnight, Meet the Tommy Robinson supporters

Some Tommy stuff from Newsnight. . .


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 31, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Indeed that is what I was presuming, possibly wrongly, so I`ll take it back.
> 
> Sorry for presuming you are on the cusp of right wing extremism RSF, if you want to continue your debate, please do, and i`m sure you will find stimulating responses that are not just rude assumptions like mine.


Not from me he won't, treat them with the contempt they deserve.


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 1, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> still pondering if its degsy again
> 
> 
> you all morons who won't debate without calling people names



Degsy, Cosmic, Trumped, Happy Larry - they all seem to follow a similar trajectory. I'll give it another week, tops.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 1, 2018)

Once more on the strange alliance. This is from the fall out over the Justice for Our Boys campaign.
This video shows what happens to middle class Tory boys in UKIP the morning after the night before they ended up in bed with what seemed to be a good thing. 


Luke Alexander btw is the chap who organised the Cambridge Free TR flop, also a member of  Ann Marie Waters For Britain group .
James/Jimmy/Jamie Goddard is originally from Liecester ( once claimed he wanted to 'sort out' Riza Khan who was an Asian member of Liecester Citys Baby Squad) based in London has links with the Pendragons and was around Britain First. Absolute windbag who is  scared of his own shadow according to someone who was at Longslade Community College with him.  Glen Saffer was around Norwich EDL and is a boxing coach.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 1, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Degsy, Cosmic, Trumped, Happy Larry - they all seem to follow a similar trajectory. I'll give it another week, tops.



Almost like it was the same person

*stroke's chin*


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2018)

Just been freed

Tommy Robinson wins appeal over contempt sentence

Tommy Robinson bailed after appeal win


----------



## JimW (Aug 1, 2018)

Should have tried him under sharia law.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

So a retrial then? In London... Gawd. That'll be fun. I wonder what his bail conditions are...?


----------



## ddraig (Aug 1, 2018)




----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

I can't read twitter on this machine. . . has someone said something stupid already?


----------



## ddraig (Aug 1, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> I can't read twitter on this machine. . . has someone said something stupid already?


plenty!


----------



## ddraig (Aug 1, 2018)

R v Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (aka Tommy Robinson)


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

That's what Twitter's for I suppose!


----------



## D'wards (Aug 1, 2018)

This period of imprisonment could be the best thing that ever happened to him. He's even got fans in America now


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 1, 2018)

D'wards said:


> This period of imprisonment could be the best thing that ever happened to him. He's even got fans in America now


Yep. What a fucking mess.


----------



## Rsf (Aug 1, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Just been freed
> 
> Tommy Robinson wins appeal over contempt sentence
> 
> Tommy Robinson bailed after appeal win



No surprises there then, his appeal was overseen by the most senior judge in England and Wales so I expected a sensible judgement but I don’t yet know the details.

Tommy Robinson has clearly been persecuted by the state for his political action and highlighted issues that parts of the establishment would rather have swept under the carpet. Had these issues not been swept under the carpet I don’t believe he would be the figure he is today.

His fraud conviction was for lending a family member money for a mortgage deposit (you’re not supported to borrow a deposit) in a case where the bank and nobody else lost any money. I’m sure millions of people must have done things like this. Yet only he seems to have been prosecuted for it. After the mortgage case his early release from jail conditions were that he wasn’t allowed to associate with people from the EDL. What has that got to do with mortgage fraud? Well I would guess that if your are in prison for mortgage fraud and your bail conditions are that you must not associate with the EDL then perhaps you weren’t really in prison for mortgage fraud. That’s a political prosecution and a political prisoner in my book.

His assault charge I agree with. He joined the BNP not realising that they were so racist (how this wouldn’t have been obvious to anyone I don’t know but the events that followed seem to suggest he really was politically that naive at the time), then left the BNP and expelled BNP members from the EDL and ended up assaulting far right infiltraters at an EDL demo. I agree that just because someone is a NAZI doesn’t mean you can just go around assaulting them. After tommy left the EDL and went to work for Quilliam the far right appear to have successfully taken over the EDL. The early EDL wasn’t organised fascism.

His first contempt of court was for a 45 second selfie video on the steps of a court. Will be interesting to read the facts about this one...


----------



## ddraig (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> No surprises there then, his appeal was overseen by the most senior judge in England and Wales so I expected a sensible judgement but I don’t yet know the details.
> 
> Tommy Robinson has clearly been persecuted by the state for his political action and highlighted issues that parts of the establishment would rather have swept under the carpet. Had these issues not been swept under the carpet I don’t believe he would be the figure he is today.
> 
> ...


here it is!!
how was he "persecuted by the state for his political action" and what was that "political action"? for starters


----------



## agricola (Aug 1, 2018)

ddraig said:


>




TBH that point about "once the defendant had removed the video from Facebook" is a bit bizarre, its not as if once he did that the material has forever been removed from the internet.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 1, 2018)

bit thick if he didn't "realise" the BNP were "so racist" no?


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

His first contempt was for: 

The appellant attended Canterbury Crown Court on 8 May 2017 during the trial of four defendants for rape. The jury had been sent out for deliberation. The appellant carried out filming with a commentaryon the steps of and inside the court building, although he did not film in the courtroom itself. He had intended to film the defendants but the trial judge had been made aware of his activities and had divertedthe defendants through another exit. Notices throughout the court building made itclear that filming or taking photographs at court was an offence and might amount tocontempt of court. The appellant had also been told to stop filming by security staffand warned that if he continued he might be committing an offence or be in contemptof court. He was arrested on 10 May 2017 and brought before Canterbury CrownCourt. Proceedings were adjourned until 22 May 2017 when the judge explained thathis filming could have the effect of substantially derailing the trial. The appellant wasrepresented by leading and junior counsel andapologised to the court. The judgeconsidered that the seriousness of the contempt called for committal and committedthe appellant to three months’ imprisonment suspended for 18 months. 

Your lies are getting more and more obvious.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

His ADMITTED mortgage fraud 

Ex-EDL leader jailed for £160k fraud 

Judge Andrew Bright QC described him as the "instigator, if not the architect" of some of the frauds.

Passing sentence, the judge told him: "This was an operation which was fraudulent from the outset and involved a significant amount of forward planning."

He described Robinson as a "fixer" who had introduced others to fraudulent mortgage broker Deborah Rothschild.

"I am satisfied you took part in a thoroughly dishonest course of conduct," he told him.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> No surprises there then, his appeal was overseen by the most senior judge in England and Wales so I expected a sensible judgement but I don’t yet know the details.
> 
> Tommy Robinson has clearly been persecuted by the state for his political action and highlighted issues that parts of the establishment would rather have swept under the carpet. Had these issues not been swept under the carpet I don’t believe he would be the figure he is today.
> 
> ...


how does having a trial = "establishment would rather have swept under the carpet"?


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

And he's been let out on a technicality because from the judgement... 

(Edited on the basis that it might be contempt of court...)


----------



## agricola (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> His fraud conviction was for lending a family member money for a mortgage deposit (you’re not supported to borrow a deposit) in a case where the bank and nobody else lost any money. I’m sure millions of people must have done things like this. Yet only he seems to have been prosecuted for it. After the mortgage case his early release from jail conditions were that he wasn’t allowed to associate with people from the EDL. What has that got to do with mortgage fraud? Well I would guess that if your are in prison for mortgage fraud and your bail conditions are that you must not associate with the EDL then perhaps you weren’t really in prison for mortgage fraud. That’s a political prosecution and a political prisoner in my book.



er - no he wasn't.  He was convicted for mortgage fraud because he lent people deposits and then introduced them to a bent mortgage broker, who managed to obtain them mortgages with fake pay slips.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 1, 2018)

Who is this cunt and why!


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 1, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> So a retrial then? In London... Gawd. That'll be fun. I wonder what his bail conditions are...?





> We order that he is not to approach within 400 metres of Leeds Crown Court


.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> No surprises there then, his appeal was overseen by the most senior judge in England and Wales so I expected a sensible judgement but I don’t yet know the details.
> 
> Tommy Robinson has clearly been persecuted by the state for his political action and highlighted issues that parts of the establishment would rather have swept under the carpet. Had these issues not been swept under the carpet I don’t believe he would be the figure he is today.
> 
> ...


No surprises that you are not surprised with the outcome but havent read the reasons for the outcome  that you are not surprised about ?


----------



## existentialist (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> No surprises there then, his appeal was overseen by the most senior judge in England and Wales so I expected a sensible judgement but I don’t yet know the details.
> 
> Tommy Robinson has clearly been persecuted by the state for his political action and highlighted issues that parts of the establishment would rather have swept under the carpet. Had these issues not been swept under the carpet I don’t believe he would be the figure he is today.


I got this far before I checked who'd written the post. Until I did that, I thought I was reading a NewsThump article


----------



## existentialist (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> No surprises there then, his appeal was overseen by the most senior judge in England and Wales so I expected a sensible judgement but I don’t yet know the details.
> 
> Tommy Robinson has clearly been persecuted by the state for his political action and highlighted issues that parts of the establishment would rather have swept under the carpet. Had these issues not been swept under the carpet I don’t believe he would be the figure he is today.
> 
> ...


You seem to be remarkably au fait with the inner workings of TR's mind...


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 1, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Once more on the strange alliance. This is from the fall out over the Justice for Our Boys campaign.
> This video shows what happens to middle class Tory boys in UKIP the morning after the night before they ended up in bed with what seemed to be a good thing.
> 
> 
> ...



video unavailable for me


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 1, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> That's what Twitter's for I suppose!


Love island, m8. Twitter is totally awsome for love island.


----------



## Rsf (Aug 1, 2018)

ddraig said:


> here it is!!
> how was he "persecuted by the state for his political action" and what was that "political action"? for starters



I thought I explained that? Try taking emotion out of it and looking at the actual facts. One last try...:

His political action lead to him being persecuted by the state. He was persecuted for founding and leading the EDL. The EDL did not meet the threshold to be proscribed by the Home Secretary, meaning leading the EDL and protesting with the EDL was supposed to be anyone’s democratic/legal right.

The response of the state however appears to me to have been to prosecute him for something millions of other people commonly did at that time (that’s applying a different standard of justice to Tommy Robinson because he is Tommy Robinson, or, as one of Stalin’s Hench men used to put it ‘show me the man and I will find you the crime’). That’s clearly persecution motivated by politics, that’s not blind justice and fair and impartial application of the same law and standards for all.

The fact that he was officially in prison for mortgage fraud, but his early release conditions were not to associate with people from the EDL, is just more evidence that the ‘real’ reason he was in prison was for leading and organising the EDL.

Let me put it another way by asking you a question if I may: If Tommy hadn’t been the leader of the EDL and wasn’t involved in politics, then do you honestly believe he would have ended up been locked up for lending a family member money to get a deposit on a house when nobody (including the bank) lost a penny?


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> No surprises there then, his appeal was overseen by the most senior judge in England and Wales so I expected a sensible judgement but I don’t yet know the details.
> 
> Tommy Robinson has clearly been persecuted by the state for his political action and highlighted issues that parts of the establishment would rather have swept under the carpet. Had these issues not been swept under the carpet I don’t believe he would be the figure he is today.


Did you get a little moist writing all that about your hero?


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 1, 2018)

Tommy is gay.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2018)

CNN

Tommy Robinson appeal: Court frees far-right activist - CNN

New York Times

Tommy Robinson, Anti-Muslim Activist, Is Freed on Bail in U.K.


----------



## Rsf (Aug 1, 2018)

existentialist said:


> You seem to be remarkably au fait with the inner workings of TR's mind...


I read his book. Reading is sort of a hobby of mine...


----------



## steveo87 (Aug 1, 2018)

Mien Kampf, am I right?


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

Such is the mind control power of the Establishment that they keep getting Tommy to plead guilty to all these things he hasn't done. 

The Guardian has reported that Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, had previously admitted two counts of the offence at a hearing in November.

Comment on the sentencing on Twitter Robinson said: “This is a complete stitch-up.

“See u all in 18 months.”

Robinson was accused of conspiring with others to obtain a mortgage by misrepresentation from the Abbey and Halifax.

Judge Andrew Bright QC described Robinson as the “instigator, if not the architect” of some of the frauds.

Passing sentence, the judge told said: “This was an operation which was fraudulent from the outset and involved a significant amount of forward planning.”


Bright described Robinson as the frauds “fixer” and said he had introduced others to fraudulent mortgage broker Deborah Rothschild.

Alongside Robinson in the dock was Steven Vowles who admitted conspiring with others to obtain a mortgage by misrepresentation and transferring criminal property.

Lisa Moore also pleaded guilty to conspiracy to obtain a mortgage by fraudulent misrepresentation.

And broker Rothschild pleaded guilty to four charges of conspiring to commit fraud by false representation. The charges involved the obtaining of four mortgages.

Finally, Anjee Darcy pleaded guilty to two offences of conspiring to commit fraud by misrepresentation and false accounting.

Judge Andrew Bright QC was told how Robinson had made loans totalling £40,000 to Vowles and later Moore to help them with the deposits for a property in Luton.

But he also introduced them to crooked broker Rothschild who specialised in helping people obtain a mortgage who wouldn’t normally be eligible because of insufficient income and capital.

Rothschild assisted Moore, Vowles and Darcy in their fraudulent applications by providing fake pay slips and income details.

The fraudulent mortgages she obtained came to a total of £640,000.

She was jailed for 18 months, Vowles was jailed for 27 months and Darcy was given a 15 month sentence suspended for 18 months and told she must carry out 200 hours of unpaid work.

Moore was given a six month prison sentence suspended for 18 months and told she must carry out 100 hours of unpaid work and pay costs of £1500.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I thought I explained that? Try taking emotion out of it and looking at the actual facts. One last try...:
> 
> His political action lead to him being persecuted by the state. He was persecuted for founding and leading the EDL. The EDL did not meet the threshold to be proscribed by the Home Secretary, meaning leading the EDL and protesting with the EDL was supposed to be anyone’s democratic/legal right.
> 
> ...




You really do have a selective interpretation and memory of his crimes don't you? 

Ex-EDL leader jailed for £160k fraud

I see you haven't mentioned his misuse of passports either.

EDL leader jailed over USA trip


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I read his book. Reading is sort of a hobby of mine...



Is it true he fucks a goat in chapter four?


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

I'm going to be an extreme political figure I think. Islamist, AntiFa, Robinsonesque, it doesn't really matter, you can do whatever the fuck you like, then when you get prosecuted for it you can call it a "politically motivated attempt to silence dissent" and crowd fund your lifestyle out of ignorant Americans. Great stuff. Have a laugh.


----------



## Rob Ray (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> He was persecuted for founding and leading the EDL



Was he picked up on minor offences that other people might have gotten away with? Maybe. But police scrutiny is something that happens to most political people in the public eye, particularly if it's street-level and a potential breach of the peace. And Tommy wasn't just "being political", he was rallying thousands of far-right boneheads, many of whom were known to police for violent episodes (as Tommy himself is). How and why do you think the (often non-political) football firms got taken down? He got picked up because he was sloppy and because his lads kept rampaging through town centres causing trouble, not because his politics are extra specially radical or scary for the State.

I mean seriously, what do you think is challenging for Westminster about demanding Muslims be treated like the enemy within, exactly? It's a straightforward _patriotic,_ xenophobic, racist reactionary movement, burning Parliament is precisely the last thing that's going to happen under Tommy's watch. He offers zero threat to State interests.



> If Tommy hadn’t been the leader of the EDL and wasn’t involved in politics, then do you honestly believe he would have ended up been locked up for lending a family member money to get a deposit on a house when nobody (including the bank) lost a penny?



Yes. Defrauding a bank is a crime regardless of whether anyone loses money. You blithering idiot. The stupidity was Tommy's for thinking that you can run the nation's biggest violent racist football firm without anyone keeping a close eye on what you're doing.

The fucking ridiculous thing about this entire approach is the utterly bizarre idea that Tommy Robinson is somehow special. Sorry to harsh your buzz, but he's not. He's a figurehead for the same morons who have been marching around playing street soldier since year dot and has garnered a profile from far-right media outlets opportunistically portraying his misadventures as a form of martyrdom, that's it.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 1, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> video unavailable for me


 anyone else?


----------



## nuffsaid (Aug 1, 2018)

Did Rothschild go down? That would be amazing result, surely. I thought they were supposed to be lizards that run the planet.


----------



## agricola (Aug 1, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> You really do have a selective interpretation and memory of his crimes don't you?
> 
> Ex-EDL leader jailed for £160k fraud
> 
> ...



I'll wait for official confirmation when rsf posts, but that passport thing was apparently Robinson trying to save kids.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 1, 2018)

The judgement does seem a bit sqiffy, contempt is often dealt with on the same day, although I guess bringing in the suspended sentence may change things. But go in to court and call the judge a minging cunt and you’ll have bed and board for a fortnight there and then.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 1, 2018)

Hang on a minute? Why was Cheeseypoof banned for supporting this cunt, yet there are people posting in support on here today?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 1, 2018)

agricola said:


> I'll wait for official confirmation when rsf posts, but that passport thing was apparently Robinson trying to save kids.



I heard Old Tommy was trying to get to the US to take the bullet for Dr King, a hero foiled by the state


----------



## JimW (Aug 1, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> anyone else?


I can never see videos or tweets but that's the Internet censorship here.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 1, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> And he's been let out on a technicality because from the judgement...
> 
> (Edited on the basis that it might be contempt of court...)


Tbf the judgement pretty much says that the proceedings were unduly rushed, in proprtion to the alleged offence,. That there should have been a statement issued saying what the grounds for comtempt were and that in considering a cutodial sentence the case should have been adjourned. The judgement dismissed the appellants request that he'd done enough time in jail , the prosecition withdrawn and  therefore should walk scott free. I'm not legally trained but I would think that in the next hearing it gives the prosecution the opportunity if they wish to take it  to make sure that the charge  is put in the correct way ?


----------



## agricola (Aug 1, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> The judgement does seem a bit sqiffy, contempt is often dealt with on the same day, although I guess bringing in the suspended sentence may change things. But go in to court and call the judge a minging cunt and you’ll have bed and board for a fortnight there and then.



I think where people have been going wrong is that they've been saying that to the judges' face, wheras if they post it on Facebook and then delete it when challenged they would probably get bail.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 1, 2018)

JimW said:


> I can never see videos or tweets but that's the Internet censorship here.


I feel that my 'what are you listening to now ' history has been a total waste of time . I'll do a short written summary but then video has some comedy gold moments in it , its like something from Brass Eye


----------



## ska invita (Aug 1, 2018)

ddraig said:


> bit thick if he didn't "realise" the BNP were "so racist" no?


Easy mistake to make...I thought it was a cooking show.


mwgdrwg said:


> Hang on a minute? Why was Cheeseypoof banned for supporting this cunt, yet there are people posting in support on here today?


She shouldn't have been banned is why.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

I'm not a legal expert either. At first I just read the summary, which led me to believe that there weren't problems with the contempt, just the way that the judge dealt with it. Reading the full judgement though it seems there is some question as to what in the video might actually have broken the specific reporting restrictions on these trials. He's going to get his day in court - again - in any case.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> Hang on a minute? Why was Cheeseypoof banned for supporting this cunt, yet there are people posting in support on here today?



Whilst I still have major reservations about why Cheesey was banned, I believe it was more owing to the totality of things including TR sympathies, rather than specific TR support.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 1, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Whilst I still have major reservations about why Cheesey was banned, I believe it was more owing to the totality of things including TR sympathies, rather than specific TR support.



Yeah, _major_ reservations.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2018)

#FreeCheesey


----------



## bemused (Aug 1, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> I'm not a legal expert either. At first I just read the summary, which led me to believe that there weren't problems with the contempt, just the way that the judge dealt with it. Reading the full judgement though it seems there is some question as to what in the video might actually have broken the specific reporting restrictions on these trials. He's going to get his day in court - again - in any case.



I think the jist of it was they skipped over finding him in contempt and went straight to mitigation and sentencing.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

Indeed. Partly because his lawyer - found pretty much on the spot - didn't contest it. It sounds like the video contains lots of generalised slurs but might not have broken the reporting restictions on the specific case.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

The Tommy Robinson judgment – what does it all mean?

I followed this person around the time of the original Leeds contempt thing.


----------



## not a trot (Aug 1, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> So a retrial then? In London... Gawd. That'll be fun.* I wonder what his bail conditions are...?*



To drive to beachy head and throw himself off.


----------



## ChrisD (Aug 1, 2018)

Radio 4 on now.... Gerard Batten (UKIP)  saying what a hero TR is and comparing to Nelson Mandela/Suffragettes etc etc ...  saying TR would vote UKIP...


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 1, 2018)

ChrisD said:


> Radio 4 on now.... Gerard Batten (UKIP)  saying what a hero TR is and comparing to Nelson Mandela/Suffragettes etc etc ...  saying TR would vote UKIP...



If UKIP had existed when Mandela, Ghandi, and the Suffragettes were going they would have campaigned for them to be tried for treason.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 1, 2018)

ChrisD said:


> Radio 4 on now.... Gerard Batten (UKIP)  saying what a hero TR is and comparing to Nelson Mandela/Suffragettes etc etc ...  saying TR would vote UKIP...



Hey racist...tell your racist friends what do you think of this racist then.


----------



## Rsf (Aug 1, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Tommy is gay.





skyscraper101 said:


> Whilst I still have major reservations about why Cheesey was banned, I believe it was more owing to the totality of things including TR sympathies, rather than specific TR support.



I wouldn’t really say I support Tommy Robinson and I’d certainly never go on any street marches...

I think Tommy Robinson is a failure of the establishment, he’s the sort of person who shouldn’t be a political figure, but is due to establishment failure. He’s clearly a bit of a chancer who has committed other crimes such as false entry to the USA and assault in the past. He’s no saint. But I do genuinely believe that he himself has also been treated unfairly and persecuted by a corrupt establishment tring to sweep difficult issues under the carpet. He cannot simply just be called a racist and dismissed. Fortunately the latest Home Secretary seems to actually have a bit of integrity and a willingness to make difficult decisions so I’m hopeful that things will improve.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> He’s no saint.



vote tommy. he loves his mum he does.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I wouldn’t really say I support Tommy Robinson and I’d certainly never go on any street marches...
> 
> I think Tommy Robinson is a failure of the establishment, he’s the sort of person who shouldn’t be a political figure, but is due to establishment failure. He’s clearly a bit of a chancer who has committed other crimes such as false entry to the USA and assault in the past. He’s no saint. But I do genuinely believe that he himself has also been treated unfairly and persecuted by a corrupt establishment tring to sweep difficult issues under the carpet. He cannot simply just be called a racist and dismissed. *Fortunately the latest Home Secretary seems to actually have a bit of integrity and a willingness to make difficult decisions so I’m hopeful that things will improve.*


Whats the Home Secretary been doing that makes that impression?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> No surprises there then, his appeal was overseen by the most senior judge in England and Wales so I expected a sensible judgement but I don’t yet know the details.
> 
> Tommy Robinson has clearly been persecuted by the state for his political action and highlighted issues that parts of the establishment would rather have swept under the carpet. Had these issues not been swept under the carpet I don’t believe he would be the figure he is today.
> 
> ...


Well, you can fuck right off for starters.


----------



## Rsf (Aug 1, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> Hey racist...tell your racist friends what do you think of this racist then.


Gerard Batten isn’t a racist, however a poster on here (Edie I think it was) said he called Islam a “death cult” which is something I can’t defend. I hope he only meant that ISIS was a death cult but unfortunately I don’t think he did. I’m not going to attempt to defend the indefensible, criticism of religion is not racism and people have the right to criticise all ideas including religious ideas. But I don’t agree with this at all, I believe people should have the right to say these things but sometimes I do wish they wouldn’t say these things. I’m a fairly committed Christian (Church of Scotland) myself and attend church most weekends, Islam, like Christianity, covers a wide variety of beliefs and has a rich history with entire civilisations built upon its values in the past. Calling the entire religion a cult is outrageous in my opinion.


----------



## Rsf (Aug 1, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, you can fuck right off for starters.


Yeah I think I will now, this entire forum is dripping with nasty spite and unnecessary verbal abuse.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Gerard Batten isn’t a racist...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Yeah I think I will now, this entire forum is dripping with nasty spite and unnecessary verbal abuse.



Off you fuck then.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Yeah I think I will now, this entire forum is dripping with nasty spite and unnecessary verbal abuse.


Bye then. Mind the steps on your way out, would be an awful shame if you fell down them.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 1, 2018)

RT`s coverage of Tommy`s celebrations :


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 1, 2018)

So tommy's legal team played the system: they knew the judge had committed a technicality but didn't invite him to follow correct procedure, as it were (a professional courtesy I assume).

is that right?


----------



## Libertad (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> I agree that just because someone is a NAZI doesn’t mean you can just go around assaulting them.



Yes you can.


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Gerard Batten isn’t a racist, however a poster on here (Edie I think it was) said he called Islam a “death cult” which is something I can’t defend. I hope he only meant that ISIS was a death cult but unfortunately I don’t think he did. I’m not going to attempt to defend the indefensible, criticism of religion is not racism and people have the right to criticise all ideas including religious ideas. But I don’t agree with this at all, I believe people should have the right to say these things but sometimes I do wish they wouldn’t say these things. I’m a fairly committed Christian (Church of Scotland) myself and attend church most weekends, Islam, like Christianity, covers a wide variety of beliefs and has a rich history with entire civilisations built upon its values in the past. Calling the entire religion a cult is outrageous in my opinion.



You prefer your bigotry to be of the Presbyterian type? A few sashes and flutes?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Gerard Batten isn’t a racist, however a poster on here (Edie I think it was) said he called Islam a “death cult” which is something I can’t defend. I hope he only meant that ISIS was a death cult but unfortunately I don’t think he did. I’m not going to attempt to defend the indefensible, criticism of religion is not racism and people have the right to criticise all ideas including religious ideas. But I don’t agree with this at all, I believe people should have the right to say these things but sometimes I do wish they wouldn’t say these things. I’m a fairly committed Christian (Church of Scotland) myself and attend church most weekends, Islam, like Christianity, covers a wide variety of beliefs and has a rich history with entire civilisations built upon its values in the past. Calling the entire religion a cult is outrageous in my opinion.



So what is your view on Sharia law then? Perfectly happy that the word of a woman is worth ha;f of that of a man? Sharia and Islam are absolutely entwined, so don't try the 'Sharia isn't Islam' gambit.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 1, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> RT`s coverage of Tommy`s celebrations :


----------



## ddraig (Aug 1, 2018)

Sasaferrato said:


> So what is your view on Sharia law then? Perfectly happy that the word of a woman is worth ha;f of that of a man? Sharia and Islam are absolutely entwined, so don't try the 'Sharia isn't Islam' gambit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 1, 2018)

captain mainwaring, enter stage right


----------



## Sasaferrato (Aug 1, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> So tommy's legal team played the system: they knew the judge had committed a technicality but didn't invite him to follow correct procedure, as it were (a professional courtesy I assume).
> 
> is that right?



I've not followed the case. Robinson can spontaneously combust, and it would be of little more than passing interest.

However, it is up to the prosecution and the judge to get it right, it is not up to the defence to correct them. Ignorance of the law is no defence in law, break the law and you get banged up, no leeway because you didn't know.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Whats the Home Secretary been doing that makes that impression?



Grooming: Sajid Javid orders officials to build profile of sex gangs


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Aug 1, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> I followed this person around the time of the original Leeds contempt thing.


just don't post the video to Facebook and you should be fine


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 1, 2018)

Rsf said:


> Yeah I think I will now, this entire forum is dripping with nasty spite and unnecessary verbal abuse.



One thing about these types that I always find odd is they tend to think that being a parent sort of gives them the right to hold dodgy views

Wtf is the logic "yay my dick works now I can be fash without anyone being able to pull me on it "


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 1, 2018)

Sasaferrato said:


> I've not followed the case. Robinson can spontaneously combust, and it would be of little more than passing interest.
> 
> However, it is up to the prosecution and the judge to get it right, it is not up to the defence to correct them. Ignorance of the law is no defence in law, break the law and you get banged up, no leeway because you didn't know.


That was just my reading of the secretbannister article linked upthread, i'm sure I'm wrong


----------



## krink (Aug 1, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> anyone else?



got it to work on laptop but not on my phone. 
however you now owe me a laptop as I smashed mine up to try to stop the stupid


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 1, 2018)

Why have they been banned now?


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

They revealed that they are Scottish.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 1, 2018)

(That was a joke. Sorry. I dunno...)


----------



## Poi E (Aug 1, 2018)

Fair dos. Rebellious Scots to crush or something.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 1, 2018)

This footage from earlier in the month popped up today... What absolute charmers.


----------



## andysays (Aug 1, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> Hang on a minute? Why was Cheeseypoof banned for supporting this cunt, yet there are people posting in support on here today?



Persecuted by the state for her political action, obvs...


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 1, 2018)

It's ok, they still have their beavis account.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 1, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> #FreeCheesey



This.  (And I in no way agree with her TR views.)


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 1, 2018)

do think maybe it should not be a perma ban

as i do like Cheesy but showing support for Fash should get you a ban on here

surprised Rsf was allowed go so long as it was clearly an attempt an alt right name check Bingo


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 1, 2018)

_'I'd rather be a Nazi than a Muslim'  _

Classy chants for classy folks.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 1, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> do think maybe it should not be a perma ban
> 
> as i do like Cheesy but showing support for Fash should get you a ban on here
> 
> surprised Rsf was allowed go so long as it was clearly an attempt an alt right name check Bingo



Actual racism/offensiveness should get you a ban, but not simply being a 'fan' of someone.  Also just adds to the whole martyr thing, which the right love to claim.  Sod that.


----------



## sealion (Aug 1, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Is it true he fucks a goat in chapter four?


Nanny state


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 1, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> _'I'd rather be a Nazi than a Muslim'  _
> 
> Classy chants for classy folks.




Not good.  But the imaginatively worded "Tommmm Tommy Tommy Tommmmy, Tommy Tommy Tommy Robinson" one has become a bit of an unwanted earworm.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 1, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Actual racism/offensiveness should get you a ban, but not simply being a 'fan' of someone.  Also just adds to the whole martyr thing, which the right love to claim.  Sod that.



maybe i'm blinkered but if you on here saying "free Tommy" and meaning that shit maybe its time for an enforced holiday as you clearly dropped down a rabbithole of being a fucking asshat

"oh he just randomly stubbled into many groups that are known for being like to Fash/racist groups"


----------



## treelover (Aug 1, 2018)

> A relatively large number of people on the demonstration carried Hamas or other Islamist placards and banners. There was some shouting of Allahu akbar, but from what I can gather there were no anti-semitic slogans shouted. Though Weyman Bennett of the SWP’s central committee was heard demanding that Israeli Jews “should go back to where they came from … New York or wherever
> 
> http://www.cpgb.org.uk/worker/752/marchingforgaza.html




Robinson didn't look very well,

I see Weyman Bennet was outside, SWP/UAF/SUTR, in 2009, he was cited as saying the above by the CPGB, in Hyde Park 2009, no otther witnesses

and yes i still think it is worth putting here.

link dead

Speaking out against the slur of antisemitism

There was also this Conference in 2016, where many of the controversies around A/S were discussed, many of the individuals backing Corbyn on it were present, inc challenging the IHRA defintions of AS.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 1, 2018)

treelover said:


> Robinson didn't look very well



I thought he looked in really good shape, like he'd been hitting the gym and eating healthy in there.
Maybe should have stayed in a little longer for his general wellbeing.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 1, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> maybe i'm blinkered but if you on here saying "free Tommy" and meaning that shit maybe its time for an enforced holiday as you clearly dropped down a rabbithole of being a fucking asshat
> 
> "oh he just randomly stubbled into many groups that are known for being like to Fash/racist groups"



Another argument is that if Cheesy trots off to a far right forum where only far right views are heard, she'll never be 'saved'.  Ghettoising of political views isn't healthy.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 1, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Another argument is that if Cheesy trots off to a far right forum where only far right views are heard, she'll never be 'saved'.  Ghettoising of political views isn't healthy.


How about taking your whining to the feedback forum and the thread about this awful banning?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 1, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Another argument is that if Cheesy trots off to a far right forum where only far right views are heard, she'll never be 'saved'.  Ghettoising of political views isn't healthy.



Come off it. Cheesy has been a member here for many years. She has/had good mates here too, none of which are alt-right fawning fan-girls/boys who have gone from obsessing over Prince/Milo/Pete Doherty to coming out in support of the likes of TR. If being here for all this time couldn't stop her disappearing up her own arse and into the clutches of fash, keeping her around won't either.

If you want to save her off you go.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 1, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> If you want to save her off you go.



Nah, I don't know her away from here.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 1, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Another argument is that if Cheesy trots off to a far right forum where only far right views are heard, she'll never be 'saved'.  Ghettoising of political views isn't healthy.



i'd rather have seen her here  getting the full treatment and maybe reconsidering her viewpoint

but as has been said how is that going to help her when she been here over 10 years


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 1, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Nah, I don't know her away from here.



Whether you know her away from here really isn't the point is it?

You seem to want to make a case for her to be un-banned...what do you think about the other points I made above in that regard?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 1, 2018)

Meh. In general I wouldn't wish her self absorbed shite on anyone but I'll make an exception for actual Nazis.


----------



## billbond (Aug 1, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> One thing about these types that I always find odd is they tend to think that being a parent sort of gives them the right to hold dodgy views
> 
> Wtf is the logic "yay my dick works now I can be fash without anyone being able to pull me on it "


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 1, 2018)

.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 1, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> You seem to want to make a case for her to be un-banned...what do you think about the other points I made above in that regard?



The stuff about her obsessing?  I just think bans, particularly perma ones, should be saved for the worst of the worst, for all the reasons I've given above.  I haven't seen Cheesy make any actual racist comments on here, just the stuff that implies she has some sympathy for TR.  I'm sure people who've said or done worse things have been allowed to continue to post on here.  She's all over the place, but that's part of her "charm".   Anyway, this discussion is probably a pointless, given the decision has been made.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 1, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Tommy is gay.


Dick


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 1, 2018)

TopCat said:


> Dick


Didn't you like it


----------



## ddraig (Aug 1, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> Didn't you like it


even if TR was gay, it's not a fucking insult is it now, sort it out


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 1, 2018)

You muppets. 
Maybe I was trying to comunicate on it's level.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 1, 2018)




----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 1, 2018)

Oh fuck off .


----------



## ddraig (Aug 1, 2018)

Ralph Llama said:


> You muppets.
> Maybe I was trying to comunicate on it's level.


still ain't squatjuice!


----------



## winjer (Aug 1, 2018)

Sasaferrato said:


> However, it is up to the prosecution and the judge to get it right, it is not up to the defence to correct them.


Actually it is when they know something's procedurally wrong.

*The duty of the participants in a criminal case*_
1.2.—(1) Each participant, in the conduct of each case, must―

(a) prepare and conduct the case in accordance with the overriding objective;

(b) comply with these Rules, practice directions and directions made by the court; and

(c) *at once inform the court and all parties of any significant failure (whether or not that participant is responsible for that failure) to take any procedural step required by these Rules*, any practice direction or any direction of the court. A failure is significant if it might hinder the court in furthering the overriding objective.

(2) Anyone involved in any way with a criminal case is a participant in its conduct for the purposes of this rule._

The Criminal Procedure Rules 2015

As set out in paras 51-59 of today's judgment.[/i][/B][/SIZE]


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 2, 2018)

I think they're going to try to take over UKIP. 

Raheem Kassan, Tommy Robinson, Dankula, Watson, Sargon... Batten's already speaking in favour of Robinson. Sheesh.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 2, 2018)

Other way round. UKIP are trying to associate with _them_.


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 2, 2018)

ddraig said:


> still ain't squatjuice!




edit. Sorry but I was obviously just trolling a troll.

Fash thinking Tommy Robinson arrest is about free speech

 Point taken though !


----------



## ChrisD (Aug 2, 2018)

I must stop listening to radio 4.... this morning they gave prime time to  Kassam who is clearly a dangerous but worryingly influential nutter - also trying to make TR sound reasonable. They are fascists and BBC should be wary of promoting their views over my breakfast....
Raheem Kassam


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 2, 2018)

ChrisD said:


> I must stop listening to radio 4.... this morning they gave prime time to  Kassam who is clearly a dangerous but worryingly influential nutter - also trying to make TR sound reasonable. They are fascists and BBC should be wary of promoting their views over my breakfast....
> Raheem Kassam



I had no idea who he is...



> Raheem Kassam is one of the self-styled “Bad Boys of Brexit” who appeared grinning alongside Donald Trump in the infamous photo at Trump Tower – in fact, he helped set that meeting up.
> 
> His path to that moment of ‘glory’ had led him from being a Conservative activist to UKIP, where he served as chief adviser to Nigel Farage. In 2014 he was appointed London editor of Breitbart News, the extreme right-wing publication funded by Robert Mercer and run by Steve Bannon, which was credited by Farage as having “helped hugely” with Brexit. Kassam has also previously worked for the Taxpayers’ Alliance, the influential lobbying group run by Vote Leave CEO Matthew Elliott.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 2, 2018)

just noticed the new tag line, Rutita


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 2, 2018)

Poi E said:


> just noticed the new tag line, Rutita


Not new, been sporting it for a while now. Was bestowed on me by a lovely urbanite who isn't in the least bit batshit and fucking rude.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 2, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> by a lovely urbanite who isn't in the least bit batshit and fucking rude.



That doesn't round it down much


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 2, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Other way round. UKIP are trying to associate with _them_.



Mutual I reckon. UKIP might be a bit of a joke, but they presumably still have the infrastucture of a party that was able to run national election campaigns - offices, activists, mailing lists.... A 15% increase in their membership (only some 3,000 up to 24,000-ish off the top of my head) has been reported in July. They're ripe for entryism by the more Alt Right elements, and Batten is holding up a big welcome sign.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 2, 2018)

I think the BBC - and perhaps the New York Times in America* - has got into its head that its "gatekeeper" function that kept extreme and racist views largely off TV and radio is somehow broken by Trump/Brexit and internet media and they're bending over backwards to get those views on. The far right has also made an art form out of complaining about being silenced...

Kassam's a real piece of work. He's really abusive and sometimes threatening online.

*I'm no expert on American media or the NYT, but I do see lots of complainst about their glowing(ish) profiles of small-town Trump voters and even white supremacists.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 2, 2018)

If you're styling yourself one of the bad boys of brexit... 

i can't even be bothered to mock something so assinine


----------



## ddraig (Aug 3, 2018)




----------



## treefrog (Aug 3, 2018)

Lauren Southern and Stephen Molyneux were meant to be vomiting their hate speech "race science" in Auckland this evening. Silly pricks booked our best indie music venue for it. Announced the venue at the last minute, everybody went gangbusters on social media and the owner cancelled. Whole speaking gig is off, and there's a big anti-fascist rally/street party now happening in the city centre 

Far-right speakers' venue cancelled last minute after outcry


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 3, 2018)

Far-right British extremist Tommy Robinson thanks Tucker Carlson and Republicans for coming to his aide

For 

Fuck's 

Sake

Out of jail, straight onto outrage merchant Carlson's bullshit festival


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 3, 2018)

treefrog said:


> Lauren Southern and Stephen Molyneux were meant to be vomiting their hate speech "race science" in Auckland this evening. Silly pricks booked our best indie music venue for it. Announced the venue at the last minute, everybody went gangbusters on social media and the owner cancelled. Whole speaking gig is off, and there's a big anti-fascist rally/street party now happening in the city centre
> 
> Far-right speakers' venue cancelled last minute after outcry


Lauren Southern is just fucking stupid, but Molyneux is an insidious vile bigot. One of the worst of these people.

Not that she's any better, happy to participate in efforts to drown refugees.


----------



## RD2003 (Aug 3, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Far-right British extremist Tommy Robinson thanks Tucker Carlson and Republicans for coming to his aide
> 
> For
> 
> ...


What else is he going to do? This is what 'Tommy' is for.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 3, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Lauren Southern is just fucking stupid, but Molyneux is an insidious vile bigot. One of the worst of these people.
> 
> Not that she's any better, happy to participate in efforts to drown refugees.


Is molyneuax the same Stefan molyneuax who ran a kind of online weirdo right wing libertarian cult where he told people to disconnect with their families? Called it de-foo or something mental. He's a mad fucker who performs strange rants where he fantasies about killing his mum. The fucking rotter.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 3, 2018)

He is that Molyneaux. That YouTube allow him a platform is disgusting.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 3, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> He is that Molyneaux. That YouTube allow him a platform is disgusting.



What are YouTube's criteria for banning people?
Tommy Robinson is on there plenty, isn't he?

edit:  it's coming back to me who is now - something to do with hating your family or isolating yourself from them?


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Aug 3, 2018)

He’s all over YouTube like a rash.
Vile man.


----------



## Dan U (Aug 3, 2018)

ddraig said:


> still ain't squatjuice!



assumed it was him


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 3, 2018)




----------



## bimble (Aug 3, 2018)

^ is that real?


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 3, 2018)




----------



## classicdish (Aug 3, 2018)

bimble said:


> ^ is that real?


Yes.

Link (broken) to TR facebook page: www. facebook.com/thetommyrobinson/photos/pcb.1335697909899593/1335697836566267/?type=3&theater


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 3, 2018)

8ball said:


> What are YouTube's criteria for banning people?



They are long, complicated, and from what I've seen and read they're almost impossible to trigger unless you're posting things that are outright illegal - child porn, terrorist stuff, snuff films... - and generally accepted as such. You can say "black people are stupid" as much as you like as long as you're polite. 

Alex Jones gets close to getting banned from time to time by having "community strikes" against him, but I think there are a time limit - four in three-months I think. 

You're not supposed to suggest this, but I would say do report stuff. If you think it's breaking the community rules - hate speech is the most likely - then report them. I doubt it'll make much difference. 

YouTube, like the social media companies, have managed to get themselves regulated as platforms not publishers, so they're not really responsible for what goes up. The DCMS committee wants to change that I think.


----------



## bimble (Aug 3, 2018)

classicdish said:


> Yes.
> 
> Link (broken) to TR facebook page: www. facebook.com/thetommyrobinson/photos/pcb.1335697909899593/1335697836566267/?type=3&theater


Not going to venture on there but brilliant, love that he ticked yes it has a racial aspect.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 3, 2018)




----------



## 8ball (Aug 3, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> They are long, complicated, and from what I've seen and read they're almost impossible to trigger unless you're posting things that are outright illegal - child porn, terrorist stuff, snuff films... - and generally accepted as such. You can say "black people are stupid" as much as you like as long as you're polite.



I wasn't really aware of whatever he says on the matter of race - when I last looked (a few years ago now), there was a weird cult thing he was building up around him, a lot of it related to the idea of separating yourself from your toxic family connections.

This was before the coalescing of various things into that weird soupy gunk we call the "alt right".  I guess it makes sense he'd throw his hat in with that.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 3, 2018)




----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 3, 2018)




----------



## 8ball (Aug 3, 2018)

When he says 'enhanced', I guess he's not talking about being fitted with claws like Wolverine.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 3, 2018)

Are these for real?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 3, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Are these for real?



He has posted them on his page.


----------



## winjer (Aug 3, 2018)

They're reposted here: 

"I'm paranoid so I rely on tinned food", welcome to Brexitland.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 3, 2018)

uff he is such a self promoting nutjob...he filmed himself reuniting with his kids and posted it up. He is the star of his own reality TV programme. Barfff.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 3, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> He has posted them on his page.



Oh, I missed that. 

Anyway, what a fucking twat.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 3, 2018)

8ball said:


> I wasn't really aware of whatever he says on the matter of race - when I last looked (a few years ago now), there was a weird cult thing he was building up around him, a lot of it related to the idea of separating yourself from your toxic family connections.
> 
> This was before the coalescing of various things into that weird soupy gunk we call the "alt right".  I guess it makes sense he'd throw his hat in with that.



The extent to which the Alt Right is a money-making bandwagon would be something worth looking at.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 3, 2018)

quote from a prisons spokesmen



> “Mr Yaxley-Lennon was treated with the same fairness we aim to show all prisoners – he had access to visits, television and showers – and it is totally false to say he was held in ‘solitary confinement’.
> 
> “He was initially placed into the Care & Separation Unit for less than 48 hours while an assessment of the risk to his safety was undertaken by prison staff. He then joined the main prison population.”




Jesus Tommy will try anything to paint the picture of a martyr


----------



## 8ball (Aug 3, 2018)

MightyTibberton said:


> The extent to which the Alt Right is a money-making bandwagon would be something worth looking at.



Traditional conspiraloonery seemed to be well set up for taking people's money, and I expect the overlap between them and the alt-right extends to more than various elements of their worldview.


----------



## classicdish (Aug 3, 2018)

bimble said:


> Not going to venture on there but brilliant, love that he ticked yes it has a racial aspect.


That's because the actual 'complaint' is in the box above this one, and is about being moved from a 7% muslim prison to a 30%+ one, and then having restrictions placed on him (eg being locked in his cell) 'for his own safety' (but not being put on the 'segregation' wing).


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 3, 2018)

Oh yeah, they love a crowdfund do the internet fascists! 

I did raise my - obviously completely unfounded - suspicions that Yaxley Lennon's arrest and crowd-funding of his legal fees exactly coincided with him losing an appeal against him having to repay the £160,000 he was convicted of nicking in that mortgage fraud case.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 3, 2018)

Been people accusing them/it/him/far right in gen of just being money making for years - doesn't effect the wider reasons that produce support, that produces the fears they can cash in on, that they exploit. For that you need  bit of a wider lens.


----------



## classicdish (Aug 3, 2018)

Ax^ said:


> Jesus Tommy will try anything to paint the picture of a martyr


I don't like or support TR but - is it normal to lock someone in their cell for 23.5 hrs a day and not allow them contact with any other prisoners?


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 3, 2018)

The prison service are denying it... 

A Prison Service spokesman said: ‘Mr Yaxley-Lennon was treated with the same fairness we aim to show all prisoners – he had access to visits, television and showers – and it is totally false to say he was held in “solitary confinement”.

‘He was initially placed into the Care & Separation Unit for less than 48 hours while an assessment of the risk to his safety was undertaken by prison staff. He then joined the main prison population.’


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 3, 2018)

I love these terms - "Care & Separation" Unit.


----------



## winjer (Aug 3, 2018)

classicdish said:


> That's because the actual 'complaint' is in the box above this one, and is about being moved from a 7% muslim prison to a 30%+ one, and then having restrictions placed on him (eg being locked in his cell) 'for his own safety' (but not being put on the 'segregation' wing).


But surely he's not claiming a racial distinction from muslims, Islam being a religion not a race etc...


----------



## 8ball (Aug 3, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Been people accusing them/it/him/far right in gen of just being money making for years - doesn't effect the wider reasons that produce support, that produces the fears they can cash in on, that they exploit. For that you need  bit of a wider lens.



Of course you need to look at what is feeding the desire to seek these people out, but I think things are happening at a different level here.

When you get stuff like (for example) Milo's speaking tours and book deals, podcast patronage setups, sophisticated monetisation strategies, the "showbiz" element etc. I think we've entered a slightly different arena.  A bit like how pro footballers have been around for a long time, but things toko on a different shape when the numbers got really barmy.

I know it's the same turd with really expensive polish, but it feels like a lot of the main "market actors" in this sector see themselves as primarily exactly that - players in a lucrative area of content provision.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 3, 2018)

8ball said:


> Of course you need to look at what is feeding the desire to seek these people out, but I think things are happening at a different level here.
> 
> When you get stuff like (for example) Milo's speaking tours and book deals, podcast patronage setups, sophisticated monetisation strategies, the "showbiz" element etc. I think we've entered a slightly different arena.  A bit like how pro footballers have been around for a long time, but things toko on a different shape when the numbers got really barmy.
> 
> I know it's the same turd with really expensive polish, but it feels like a lot of the main "market actors" in this sector see themselves as primarily exactly that.


Then we get this shit 'take him down' /expose him style stuff - and the real on-the-ground- stuff just goes on and on and on - and those engaged in doing the internet expose of the former slap themselves on the back for doing that 'politics' and imagine that they're somehow addressing the latter.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 3, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Then we get this shit 'take him down' /expose him style stuff - and the real on-the-ground- stuff just goes on and on and on - and those engaged in doing the internet expose of the former slap themselves on the back for doing that 'politics' and imagine that they're somehow addressing the latter.



So the market cycle goes...


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 3, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Been people accusing them/it/him/far right in gen of just being money making for years - doesn't effect the wider reasons that produce support, that produces the fears they can cash in on, that they exploit. For that you need bit of a wider lens.



True, and I suppose it was always the way. 

One of the first things I came to Urban for was the Tim Pool thread. He first came to prominence in Occupy (where he hooked up with psycho Luke Rudkowski), and had been making nicely filmed videos of abandoned factories, and some fairly straight reportage - though he had started, I think, to make things up - and was getting a few thousand views on his videos, with the odd breakout success, until the Sweden thing. That broke him to an international audience on the far right and he's stayed there ever since - stubbornly claiming to be "centrist" or even "left wing" - ever since. 

I really can't stand him now, he is so dishonest it makes me sick. In a personality-driven sector he's also without one, so his success surprises me a little.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 3, 2018)

Republic Digital Management – A Digital Rights & Advertisement Company

This is the company that represents Tim Pool. I think they might do Lauren Southern too. Massive gravy train.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 3, 2018)

classicdish said:


> I don't like or support TR but - is it normal to lock someone in their cell for 23.5 hrs a day and not allow them contact with any other prisoners?



not normally but what he has shown of his  character and who he associates with

screaming of a Muslim conspiracy, telling everyone he fears for his life and demanding segregation  to get extra media coverage is not beyond the cunt


----------



## M Testa (Aug 3, 2018)

winjer said:


> But surely he's not claiming a racial distinction from muslims, Islam being a religion not a race etc...


quote of the day!


----------



## colacubes (Aug 3, 2018)

M Testa said:


> quote of the day!



Why?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 3, 2018)

Well I can now see the point that the UKIP leader made when he compared Tommy Robinson to Ghandi, the Suffragettes and Nelson Mandela. They didn't have a TV in prison either.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 3, 2018)




----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 3, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Well I can now see the point that the UKIP leader made when he compared Tommy Robinson to Ghandi, the Suffragettes and Nelson Mandela. They didn't have a TV in prison either.




Must resist posting this to his page and all over twitter....MUST RESIST.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 3, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> Must resist posting this to his page and all over twitter....MUST RESIST.


Get stuck in. I've put it on Twitter but plz retweet it


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 3, 2018)




----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 3, 2018)

I can't be the only one who sees screenshots of these alleged prison forms and thinks that posting this stuff is some kind of data breach. How does he even get to keep copies of this stuff upon leaving? Was it someone else that uploaded this?

Also in that interview with Carlson (lovely hair) he again prejudices the jury.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 3, 2018)

8ball said:


> When he says 'enhanced', I guess he's not talking about being fitted with claws like Wolverine.


I guess we could call him an X offender :O


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 3, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> He has posted them on his page.


So no, then


----------



## bimble (Aug 3, 2018)

i've just gone and watched a video where he's being interviewed by 'rebel media' just after getting out.
He says he lived on one tin of tuna a day because he was sure the muslims were poisoning his food. The interviewer says 'this is torture, they treat guantanamo prisoners better than you tommy, where's amnesty international ...'

Don't know whether to laugh or cry tbh, a lot of people seem to love him in a deeply irrational way.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 3, 2018)

Self inflicted torture because the twat was too paranoid to eat anything else. 'Kin 'ell.


----------



## Grandma Death (Aug 3, 2018)

Rutita1 said:


> uff he is such a self promoting nutjob...he filmed himself reuniting with his kids and posted it up. He is the star of his own reality TV programme. Barfff.




I followed him on Twitter until his supporters threatened to doxx me. Up to that point he said he NEVER uses his kids for his 'work' and would never dream of them 'being exposed to the media'

Here he is showing the kids with overly mawkish music in the background.

The guy is a master media manipulator-and his followers idolise him. He's like the Kim Kardashian of the alt right.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 3, 2018)

I followed him on Twitter...He's like the Kim Kardashian of the alt right.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 3, 2018)

Maybe we could marry his kids off to Katie Hopkins off and send them all to live on Arrakis


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 3, 2018)

Grandma Death said:


> I followed him on Twitter until his supporters threatened to doxx me. Up to that point he said he NEVER uses his kids for his 'work' and would never dream of them 'being exposed to the media'
> 
> Here he is showing the kids with overly mawkish music in the background.
> 
> The guy is a master media manipulator-and his followers idolise him. He's like the Kim Kardashian of the alt right.


I don't think it's him doing the thinking anymore tbh. He is being coached...they are building a brand.He is up for being used.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Aug 3, 2018)

I think he's being used, groomed and coached and funded, but he's also smart and charismatic - he's wrong, but he often "wins" debates, he attracts a large following in his own right. 

Someone should try to recruit him for the left.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 3, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Maybe we could marry his kids off to Katie Hopkins off and send them all to live on Arrakis



How do you recon Tommy might get on with the fremen then?


----------



## fishfinger (Aug 3, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> How do you recon Tommy might get on with the fremen then?


They'd use him as worm bait.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 4, 2018)

fishfinger said:


> They'd use him as worm bait.


They'll surely have some sympathy with the thing about him getting his TV privileges withdrawn for scrapping with one of the other prisoners in solitary confinement with him.


----------



## MrSpikey (Aug 4, 2018)

classicdish said:


> I don't like or support TR but - is it normal to lock someone in their cell for 23.5 hrs a day and not allow them contact with any other prisoners?


It will vary depending on the prison, but there are some where association is normally limited to an hour per day. If you aren't working or doing an educational course, that will be the main time when you are out of your cell (aside from being let out to collect meals and brief periods in the morning/afternoon to allow those going to work/education to do so), meaning you are locked up slightly less than 23 hours a day. You get contact with other prisoners during this association period, but access to things like work/education/gym depends heavily on the resources available.


----------



## MrSpikey (Aug 4, 2018)

8ball said:


> When he says 'enhanced', I guess he's not talking about being fitted with claws like Wolverine.


Under the carrot-and-stick approach to privileges, a prisoner can apply for enhanced privileges after being "well behaved" for a period of time. If granted, it means they are allowed to e.g. access more money from their account each week, get extra visits, buy restricted items (usually not including adamantium claws), etc.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 4, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> How do you recon Tommy might get on with the fremen then?


As if he were born to them

...or they'll leave the sad little racist in the desert as wormfood


----------



## Poi E (Aug 4, 2018)

He won't be keen on the Fremen's Jihad.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 4, 2018)

Oh dear.   This band are from round my neck of the woods.  



Looks like Moz might have found a new support band.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Oh dear.   This band are from round my neck of the woods.
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Moz might have found a new support band.



They've just lost two festival gigs over this


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 4, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> They've just lost two festival gigs over this



Yeah, I know, but will this hurt them?  Maybe the first official Tommy song...


----------



## LDC (Aug 4, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> They've just lost two festival gigs over this



Quality of the lyrics I'd imagine. The fucking horror of it.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 4, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Yeah, I know, but will this hurt them?  Maybe the first official Tommy song...


Those deaf dumb and blind kids
sure follow a mean thin fool


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Aug 4, 2018)

Lennon is clearly being handled and promoted by the same circles that Bannon is utilising across Europe for a larger far-right bloc. 

We've seen Rebel Media cover it, he's been associated with them for a while. They are backed by far-right elitists.

We've seen him on Fox News, hard right elite.

We've had his apologists on BBC, supposedly "centerist" establishment.

A broad sweep of the spectrum covered there, not to speak of the social media strategy, all very well funded no doubt.

Millions of dupes are now being actively groomed for fascism.

Trump has shown the extent to which they are willing to be gaslighted (gaslit?)for the cause.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Yeah, I know, but will this hurt them?  Maybe the first official Tommy song...


God Knows . Never heard of them


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2018)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Lennon is clearly being handled and promoted by the same circles that Bannon is utilising across Europe for a larger far-right bloc.
> 
> We've seen Rebel Media cover it, he's been associated with them for a while. They are backed by far-right elitists.
> 
> ...


But no sign of any increase in votes for either UKIP or For Britain despite the occasional larger than expected demo.


----------



## BristolEcho (Aug 4, 2018)

It's subliminal right? "He won't be stopped. Unless it's with a fucking shotgun."


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 4, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> They've just lost two festival gigs over this



But gained a lot of publicity and can now claim they're being censored...


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> But gained a lot of publicity and can now claim they're being censored...


Can't deny there is a big social media presence but in the real world despite almost ideal conditions the UK must have one of the lowest electorally performing far right / alt right in Europe .


----------



## TopCat (Aug 4, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Can't deny there is a big social media presence but in the real world despite almost ideal conditions the UK must have one of the lowest electorally performing far right / alt right in Europe .


RA/AFA legacy.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 4, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Can't deny there is a big social media presence but in the real world despite almost ideal conditions the UK must have one of the lowest electorally performing far right / alt right in Europe .



I hope you're right.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2018)

Well I am at the moment but things can be very fluid


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 4, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Can't deny there is a big social media presence but in the real world despite almost ideal conditions the UK must have one of the lowest electorally performing far right / alt right in Europe .


 
Doesn’t stop the major parties colonising their ideas and rhetoric when it has suited them in recent years (‘British Jobs for British Workers’ and related crap). They’ve had this influence despite a small following. Plus a large chunk of the brexit vote was mobilised with the racist notion of invading Turks and so on. It’s just down to the incompetence and division of the UK far right (and the capability of those opposing them on the street) that they haven’t made bigger gains, not that the attitudes don’t exist here.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> Doesn’t stop the major parties colonising their ideas and rhetoric when it has suited them in recent years (‘British Jobs for British Workers’ and related crap). They’ve had this influence despite a small following. Plus a large chunk of the brexit vote was mobilised with the racist notion of invading Turks and so on. It’s just down to the incompetence and division of the UK far right (and the capability of those opposing them on the street) that they haven’t made bigger gains, not that the attitudes don’t exist here.


Your last sentence actually ties in with what I am saying.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 5, 2018)

Poor Tommy had a tough old time in the nick!

Tommy Robinson complains he was 'mentally tortured' because he had no TV in prison


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Aug 5, 2018)

^ Holy fuck...how did he survive without Love Island?

Some of his fuckwit supporters swarmed a communist bookshop...



"you fucking Jew hater" ...wtf?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Aug 5, 2018)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2018)

Thread here btw: Reports that SWP bookshop Bookmarks attacked


----------



## Humirax (Aug 9, 2018)

According to a recent non-partisan study by Georgetown University's Free Speech Project, the majority of censorship on campuses in the US is directed at the left (much of this is pro-palestine/BDS stuff), the study also found that cases of free speech violation are not hugely widespread. I'm sure the likes of Ben Shapiro will be straight on the case (as if!). I am curious as to whether any similar studies have been carried out in the UK, not aware of any myself though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2018)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Poor Tommy had a tough old time in the nick!
> 
> Tommy Robinson complains he was 'mentally tortured' because he had no TV in prison


should have tuned it into a shopping channel and put it on 24/7


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 9, 2018)

> Robinson claimed through a social media outrider that he had been put in a jail with a 71 percent Muslim population, in a cell opposite the “mosque” where Muslim prisoners could spit or throw feces at him. This was reiterated on _Breitbart _by _Telegraph _journalist James Delingpole.



The Phony Martyrdom of Tommy Robinson

literally forgot delingpole existed. Since paywalls and patreons I must have forgotten a few who I'd never pay to read.


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 9, 2018)

Humirax said:


> According to a recent non-partisan study by Georgetown University's Free Speech Project, the majority of censorship on campuses in the US is directed at the left (much of this is pro-palestine/BDS stuff), the study also found that cases of free speech violation are not hugely widespread. I'm sure the likes of Ben Shapiro will be straight on the case (as if!). I am curious as to whether any similar studies have been carried out in the UK, not aware of any myself though.


Free speech violations are often conducted by the right. Groups like Turning Point, run by pinless human voodoo doll, Charlie Kirk, routinely draw up lists of faculty who think 'incorrectly' and subject them - directly or indirectly - to abuse including death threats. 

You don't hear Stephen YL talking about this of course. Nor Katie Shitbag. Nor any of the other intellectual heavyweights that haunt social media in lieu of a genuine platform (that they must never have)


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 9, 2018)

Humirax said:


> According to a recent non-partisan study by Georgetown University's Free Speech Project, the majority of censorship on campuses in the US is directed at the left (much of this is pro-palestine/BDS stuff), the study also found that cases of free speech violation are not hugely widespread. I'm sure the likes of Ben Shapiro will be straight on the case (as if!). I am curious as to whether any similar studies have been carried out in the UK, not aware of any myself though.


Free speech violations are often conducted by the right. Groups like Turning Point, run by pinless human voodoo doll, Charlie Kirk, routinely draw up lists of faculty who think 'incorrectly' and subject them - directly or indirectly - to abuse including death threats. 

You don't hear Stephen YL talking about this of course. Nor Katie Shitbag. Nor any of the other intellectual heavyweights that haunt social media in lieu of a genuine platform (that they must never have)


----------



## Poi E (Aug 9, 2018)

Free speech is so nice you say it twice!


----------



## 19force8 (Aug 10, 2018)

PaoloSanchez said:


> ^ Holy fuck...how did he survive without Love Island?


How do any of us? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


----------



## Toast Rider (Aug 10, 2018)

19force8 said:


> How do any of us? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯


In much the same way I survive without drinking bleach


----------



## isvicthere? (Aug 10, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Can't deny there is a big social media presence but in the real world despite almost ideal conditions the UK must have one of the lowest electorally performing far right / alt right in Europe .



Certainly, and it's long-standing. Don't forget Cable Street, 1936. I was a teenager in mid to late '70s, and the NF were very visible in the media and society. However, I recently learned they had already peaked electorally in the 1970 GE (the first time they stood) with a measly 2% of the vote. Compare that with some other European countries, and it's a rare thing about recent Britain politically to be proud of.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2018)

Its our electoral system surely?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

isvicthere? said:


> Certainly, and it's long-standing. Don't forget Cable Street, 1936. I was a teenager in mid to late '70s, and the NF were very visible in the media and society. However, I recently learned they had already peaked electorally in the 1970 GE (the first time they stood) with a measly 2% of the vote. Compare that with some other European countries, and it's a rare thing about recent Britain politically to be proud of.


They didn't do nearly as well as the more recent bnp


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Its our electoral system surely?


Don't be difficult


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> They didn't do nearly as well as the more recent bnp



The BNP's best GE election results achieved was in 2010, at just 1.9% vote share:
British National Party - Wikipedia



Teaboy said:


> Its our electoral system surely?



That makes it different for minor parties to get MPs elected, it doesn't stop people voting for them, in the 2015 GE, UKIP gained a vote share of 12.6% - higher than the LibDems & Greens combined.
UK Independence Party - Wikipedia


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> The BNP's best GE election results achieved was in 2010, at just 1.9% vote share:
> British National Party - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> ...


They had far more councillors than the front ever managed and got representation on the gla and of course the euro parliament


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 10, 2018)

I guess the best way of judging the 'success' of the BNP-v-National Front in GE's is by looking at the best average votes per candidates:

The Front achieved 1,423 in 1974, the BNP achieved 1,663 in 2010, not a lot in it really.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I guess the best way of judging the 'success' of the BNP-v-National Front in GE's is by looking at the best average votes per candidates:
> 
> The Front achieved 1,423 in 1974, the BNP achieved 1,663 in 2010, not a lot in it really.


90 candidates vs 339. A total vote for the BNP at least 4 times bigger than the NFs. The single time the NF managed to put up a similar amount of candidates their vote dropped to 633 per candidate. BNP were well beyond that.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> Don't be difficult



Sorry.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> I guess the best way of judging the 'success' of the BNP-v-National Front in GE's is by looking at the best average votes per candidates:
> 
> The Front achieved 1,423 in 1974, the BNP achieved 1,663 in 2010, not a lot in it really.


The question isn't which did best in general elections but which has enjoyed most success and the answer is unquestionably the BNP who not only achieved more electoral success but also pushed fascist politics into 'the mainstream', and paved the way for the plethora of groups we've seen in recent years from the EDL to Britain first etc


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 10, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> 90 candidates vs 339. A total vote for the BNP at least 4 times bigger than the NFs.



Yes, but, if the Front had managed to field as many candidates, there would likely have been very little different in national vote share between them.

The BNP took a massive gamble on fielding so many candidates, which basically bankrupted them, one thing we can thank Griffin for.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yes, but, if the Front had managed to field as many candidates, there would likely have been very little different in national vote share between them.
> 
> The BNP took a massive gamble on fielding so many candidates, which basically bankrupted them, one thing we can thank Griffin for.


_They did in 79_ and their av vote dropped to 633 from the 1423 of first election of 74. When they both fielded 300+ candidates the BNP more than doubled the NF total vote.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yes, but, if the Front had managed to field as many candidates, there would likely have been very little different in national vote share between them.
> 
> The BNP took a massive gamble on fielding so many candidates, which basically bankrupted them, one thing we can thank Griffin for.


The financial rug was pulled from under them when dowson took his money elsewhere


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 10, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> _They did in 79_ and their av vote dropped to 633 from the 1423 of first election of 74. When they both fielded 300+ candidates the BNP more than doubled the NF total vote.



True, but the Front was at its height in the mid-70s, they had lost support by the time they entered the 1979 GE, whereas the BNP was on the 'crest of a wave' as they entered the 2010 GE, and crashed after that. 

Thank fuck.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> The financial rug was pulled from under them when dowson took his money elsewhere



He was never happy with Griffin's plans for the 2010 GE, because the party was so in debt, his role was fund-raising, mainly with the NI call centre, which was paid for by commission on donations taken, that was basically a self-financing operation, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if Dowson made some good money out of that. 

When Griffin's gamble didn't pay off, he knew the party was over, and so was his call centre, so he moved on.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2018)

cupid_stunt said:


> He was never happy with Griffin's plans for the 2010 GE, because the party was so in debt, his role was fund-raising, mainly with the NI call centre, which was paid for by commission on donations taken, that was basically a self-financing operation, in fact it wouldn't surprise me if Dowson made some good money out of that.
> 
> When Griffin's gamble didn't pay off, he knew the party was over, and so was his call centre, so he moved on.


i think you'll find a certain groping incident had something to do with it.


----------



## phillm (Aug 11, 2018)

Sorry for the mail link but they have done a good job of investigating his finances. He appears to be rolling in it and partly bankrolled by US billionaires.

GUY ADAMS asks why British hatemonger Tommy Robinson being funded by American billionaires?  | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Ralph Llama (Aug 11, 2018)

Tea Party ?


----------



## Joe Reilly (Aug 11, 2018)

isvicthere? said:


> Certainly, and it's long-standing. Don't forget Cable Street, 1936. I was a teenager in mid to late '70s, and the NF were very visible in the media and society. However, I recently learned they had already peaked electorally in the 1970 GE (the first time they stood) with a measly 2% of the vote. Compare that with some other European countries, and it's a rare thing about recent Britain politically to be proud of.



First you need to compare the NF vote with other countries _in the 70's_ for a direct comparison. Second, the BNP vote, basically folded into the UKIP one. And it can of course fold out again such the situation warrant it. And it was UKIP that actually won the European elections not too long ago. When's the last time Britain's  major parties were usurped in such a fashion? And with Brexit looming the whole situation is still playing out. So one way or the other its a little early for self-congratulations.


----------



## agricola (Aug 11, 2018)

Joe Reilly said:


> First you need to compare the NF vote with other countries _in the 70's_ for a direct comparison. Second, the BNP vote, basically folded into the UKIP one. And it can of course fold out again such the situation warrant it. And it was UKIP that actually won the European elections not too long ago. When's the last time Britain's  major parties were usurped in such a fashion? And with Brexit looming the whole situation is still playing out. So one way or the other its a little early for self-congratulations.



It is possible to read too much into that victory - they won using a system not used for General Elections, on an issue where they were the only voice advocating one side of a two sided argument, turnout was less than 40% and Farage was given undue prominence by the failure of Miliband and Cameron to turn up for debates.  (edit) The biggest thing that election did was terrify Cameron into promising an in-out referendum as part of the 2015 manifesto, with the result we all see now.


----------



## isvicthere? (Aug 11, 2018)

Joe Reilly said:


> First you need to compare the NF vote with other countries _in the 70's_ for a direct comparison. Second, the BNP vote, basically folded into the UKIP one. And it can of course fold out again such the situation warrant it. And it was UKIP that actually won the European elections not too long ago. When's the last time Britain's  major parties were usurped in such a fashion? And with Brexit looming the whole situation is still playing out. So one way or the other its a little early for self-congratulations.



Fair point, especially in the spectacularly anything-can-happen early 21st Century.


----------



## Joe Reilly (Aug 12, 2018)

agricola said:


> It is possible to read too much into that victory - they won using a system not used for General Elections, on an issue where they were the only voice advocating one side of a two sided argument, turnout was less than 40% and Farage was given undue prominence by the failure of Miliband and Cameron to turn up for debates.  (edit) The biggest thing that election did was terrify Cameron into promising an in-out referendum as part of the 2015 manifesto, with the result we all see now.



The bigger problem is reading too little into it.  When UKIP previously took 16 per cent of the Euro vote the BBC listed them as 'other'. It is simply undeniable that liberal hubris did much to deliver Brexit, and liberal hysteria ever since (Bookmarks and Boris are the new watermarks) is merely preparing the ground for even more fundamental changes to come.


----------



## agricola (Aug 12, 2018)

Joe Reilly said:


> The bigger problem is reading too little into it.  When UKIP previously took 16 per cent of the Euro vote the BBC listed them as 'other'. It is simply undeniable that liberal hubris did much to deliver Brexit, and liberal hysteria ever since (Bookmarks and Boris are the new watermarks) is merely preparing the ground for even more fundamental changes to come.



Perhaps, though UKIP were always a party that latched on to legitimate concerns with the more extreme stuff following on its coat-tails; often they were the only realistic party at an election that said anything about those legitimate concerns.  As a result, they got that share of the vote because there were (and are) a lot of people who for whatever reason do not like the EU as it is, not because there are 10-20% of the population that are fascist in outlook (which the decline in the UKIP vote once that problem has been apparently solved would indicate).


----------



## Joe Reilly (Aug 12, 2018)

agricola said:


> Perhaps, though UKIP were always a party that latched on to legitimate concerns with the more extreme stuff following on its coat-tails; often they were the only realistic party at an election that said anything about those legitimate concerns.  As a result, they got that share of the vote because there were (and are) a lot of people who for whatever reason do not like the EU as it is, not because there are 10-20% of the population that are fascist in outlook (which the decline in the UKIP vote once that problem has been apparently solved would indicate).



UKIP was never fascist. The next iteration won't be either, but will likely look  a lot more like what is described as 'far right' on the Continent. And as is the case in Europe there will be plenty of racists and fascists who will be happy to progress under that umbrella.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 19, 2018)

I hear than John Lawrence Oldham EDL , Jim Edwards and two others got stabbed in Piccadily Gardens in the early hours of Saturday morning. The far right 'think' that they were targeted over their activism as you would be at that time in the morning in Piccadily Gardens by drug dealing youth. They have a little group called The Manchester Collective that call themselves patriots and go around with pro Trump placards and annoy the SWP in the City Centre . Three teenagers arrested.


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 19, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I hear than John Lawrence Oldham EDL , Jim Edwards and two others got stabbed in Piccadily Gardens in the early hours of Saturday morning. The far right 'think' that they were targeted over their activism as you would be at that time in the morning in Piccadily Gardens by drug dealing youth. They have a little group called The Manchester Collective that call themselves patriots and go around with pro Trump placards and annoy the SWP in the City Centre . Three teenagers arrested.



Drugs were mentioned in the news reports. That said very cynical of you to question the genius idea of recruiting sympathetic people in Picc Gardens at that time of day.


----------



## kenny g (Aug 19, 2018)

agricola said:


> It is possible to read too much into that victory - they won using a system not used for General Elections, on an issue where they were the only voice advocating one side of a two sided argument, turnout was less than 40% and Farage was given undue prominence by the failure of Miliband and Cameron to turn up for debates.  (edit) The biggest thing that election did was terrify Cameron into promising an in-out referendum as part of the 2015 manifesto, with the result we all see now.



The greens got a massive vote at the Euro's back in 1989, received 15% and terrified the Tory's as well. Led to loads of Tory green washing as far as a I recall. The Euro's are usually mid-term elections and the electorate seemed to use it to take a risk. With national elections there is often some affinity for the local MP whereas in the Euro's people haven't a clue who the incumbent is.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 19, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> I hear than John Lawrence Oldham EDL , Jim Edwards and two others got stabbed in Piccadily Gardens in the early hours of Saturday morning. The far right 'think' that they were targeted over their activism as you would be at that time in the morning in Piccadily Gardens by drug dealing youth. They have a little group called The Manchester Collective that call themselves patriots and go around with pro Trump placards and annoy the SWP in the City Centre . Three teenagers arrested.


Three men stabbed in city on night out


----------



## kenny g (Aug 19, 2018)

Fedayn said:


> Drugs were mentioned in the news reports. That said very cynical of you to question the genius idea of recruiting sympathetic people in Picc Gardens at that time of day.



Terrible to speculate but I imagine drunk people coming out with racial epitaphs in that particular place early in the morning might not have gone down too well. Having said that, last time I was in P Gardens I would have been impressed if anyone was in a fit state to lift a knife.


----------



## billbond (Aug 19, 2018)

phillm said:


> Sorry for the mail link but they have done a good job of investigating his finances. He appears to be rolling in it and partly bankrolled by US billionaires.
> 
> GUY ADAMS asks why British hatemonger Tommy Robinson being funded by American billionaires?  | Daily Mail Online



But most people on here think the mail only print fake news , why should anyone believe this ?
Seems this guy Adams is Jealous of TRs lifestyle, maybe he should look for a better paid job then maybe then he could afford fancy cars watches and clothes.
Establishment getting worried his becoming popular it seems.


----------



## kenny g (Aug 19, 2018)

Yes, establishment is most probably worried a racist, rabble rousing fuckwit/ luton supporter  is getting popular - and your point is?


----------



## billbond (Aug 19, 2018)

kenny g said:


> Yes, establishment is most probably worried a racist, rabble rousing fuckwit/ luton supporter  is getting popular - and your point is?



"Luton supporter" !!!!!
Thats it then , hang him


----------



## kenny g (Aug 19, 2018)

billbond said:


> "Luton supporter" !!!!!
> Thats it then , hang him


----------



## kenny g (Aug 19, 2018)

kenny g said:


> and your point is?


----------



## billbond (Aug 19, 2018)

kenny g said:


>


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 19, 2018)

billbond said:


> "Luton supporter" !!!!!
> Thats it then , hang him


A section of away  Luton supporters singing Oh Tommy Robinson got drowned by boos the other week.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 19, 2018)

kenny g said:


> Terrible to speculate but I imagine drunk people coming out with racial epitaphs in that particular place early in the morning might not have gone down too well. Having said that, last time I was in P Gardens I would have been impressed if anyone was in a fit state to lift a knife.


Lawrence is mixed race. The speculation is either they got into a row ( although Lawrence looks like hes the only one who might with a strong wind stand up for himself) or tried to buy some drugs and it went wrong or believe it or not that the Police let it happen/made it happen because they had been on some stunt about exposing paedophiles earlier during the day.


----------



## billbond (Aug 20, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> A section of away  Luton supporters singing Oh Tommy Robinson got drowned by boos the other week.



I have read online his not keen on Millwall fans , never said why.
I have seen footage of a Daily mail news reporter this week going out to speak to him while he was on holiday.
Im sure others on here might have seen it.


----------



## Poi E (Aug 20, 2018)

He's still sore about the 1985 pitch invasion.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 20, 2018)

billbond said:


> I have read online his not keen on Millwall fans , never said why.
> I have seen footage of a Daily mail news reporter this week going out to speak to him while he was on holiday.
> Im sure others on here might have seen it.


  No attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion ?


----------



## Athos (Aug 20, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> A section of away  Luton supporters singing Oh Tommy Robinson got drowned by boos the other week.


 Where was this? Who booed them?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 20, 2018)

Athos said:


> Where was this? Who booed them?


West Brom . It was only a small section of Luton, other Luton fans have joined  Football Lads & Lasses Against Fascism‏


----------



## Athos (Aug 20, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> West Brom . It was only a small section of Luton, other Luton fans have joined  Football Lads & Lasses Against Fascism‏


Ta.


----------



## sealion (Aug 20, 2018)

Poi E said:


> He's still sore about the 1985 pitch invasion.


He tells stories of how him and his mates went toe to toe with Millwall that evening, he was three at the time


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 20, 2018)

sealion said:


> He tells stories of how him and his mates went toe to toe with Millwall that evening, he was three at the time


yeh they couldn't reach much above the knee.


----------



## hot air baboon (Aug 20, 2018)

sealion said:


> He tells stories of how him and his mates went toe to toe with Millwall that evening, he was three at the time



isn't that the other one from whom he "borrowed" the name


----------



## sealion (Aug 20, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> isn't that the other one from whom he "borrowed" the name


Not sure. I have seen bits written on the Luton game by Robinson/yaxley or whatever his name is.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 20, 2018)

why doesn't Tommy Robinson just beat up Tommy Robinson?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 20, 2018)

Ranbay said:


> why doesn't Tommy Robinson just beat up Tommy Robinson?


it'd be win-win for most people.


----------



## hot air baboon (Aug 20, 2018)

Ranbay said:


> why doesn't Tommy Robinson just beat up Tommy Robinson?



it would confuse the demonstrators


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 20, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> it would confuse the demonstrators


after the trial it'd be, 'free tommy robinsons'


----------



## Libertad (Aug 20, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> 'free tommy robinsons'



'sake, how many are there?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 20, 2018)

Libertad said:


> 'sake, how many are there?


maybe they'd slay each other and then there'd be none.


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 20, 2018)

Libertad said:


> 'sake, how many are there?



there's only one Tommy Robinson, if the chants are anything to go by...


----------



## hot air baboon (Aug 20, 2018)

Libertad said:


> 'sake, how many are there?



only 2 but going under about 5 different names


----------



## not a trot (Aug 20, 2018)

Libertad said:


> 'sake, how many are there?



I blame Mrs Robinson.


----------



## sealion (Aug 20, 2018)

not a trot said:


> I blame Mrs Robinson.


Which one


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2018)

Good piece here and the dodginess of change.org  
Private Eye | Change.org: What a lot of Tommy rot


----------



## bimble (Aug 22, 2018)

http://newsthump.com/2018/08/22/tom...ut-reporting-on-all-the-catholic-paedophiles/


----------



## Mrs D (Sep 2, 2018)

Somone has overwritten all the “FREE TOMMY” graffiti on the styles and gates of a local footpath to make each one read “ALFRED  TOMATOES”.


----------



## Patteran (Sep 13, 2018)

Tommy singing for his supper in a new online interview. Features full-throated fascist rhetoric getting floated for the first time. ‘Islam is a cancer, I am the cure’. Presented in angry context, but presumably designed to be tested out of context, & sounds like a deliberate attempt to create a meme-worthy slogan. US alt-right influence? It's certainly part-aimed at US sponsors & clicks, with a US interviewer* acting as a translator. Income stream plus possible escape route when he’s made his dough?

His contrasting treatment in Hull & London is interesting. In HMP Hull, he’s treated like a fictional mafiosi - room in the hospital wing, his own gym, recreation time spent socialising with screws not inmates. Then he’s ghosted south & put it into what sounds like a nightmarish block - genuinely hard conditions, harder than many could cope with. Wondering what prompted the change - simply procedural, or a power play flex from state elements? Deal gone sour? Or is the whole thing over-exaggerated fiction for clicks? Who knows.

He's exhibiting real self-entitlement. Makes a living as a provocateur, but demands special protection in jail. Trades in generalisations, & expects particularised treatment. Sounds narcissistic, bordering on messianic when he tears up talking of the revolution his murder could provoke. Considered or cracking up?  Either way, it’s racking up big numbers & presumably earning money while he keeps out of trouble with a retrial pending.

*correction - interviewer is Canadian, not US, but point stands about translation orientation towards North American audience.


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 13, 2018)

Patteran said:


> Tommy singing for his supper in a new online interview. Features full-throated fascist rhetoric getting floated for the first time. ‘Islam is a cancer, I am the cure’. Presented in angry context, but presumably designed to be tested out of context, & sounds like a deliberate attempt to create a meme-worthy slogan. US alt-right influence? It's certainly part-aimed at US sponsors & clicks, with a US interviewer acting as a translator. Income stream plus possible escape route when he’s made his dough?
> 
> His contrasting treatment in Hull & London is interesting. In HMP Hull, he’s treated like a fictional mafiosi - room in the hospital wing, his own gym, recreation time spent socialising with screws not inmates. Then he’s ghosted south & put it into what sounds like a nightmarish block - genuinely hard conditions, harder than many could cope with. Wondering what prompted the change - simply procedural, or a power play flex from state elements? Deal gone sour? Or is the whole thing over-exaggerated fiction for clicks? Who knows.
> 
> He's exhibiting real self-entitlement. Makes a living as a provocateur, but demands special protection in jail. Trades in generalisations, & expects particularised treatment. Sounds narcissistic, bordering on messianic when he tears up talking of the revolution his murder could provoke. Considered or cracking up?  Either way, it’s racking up big numbers & presumably earning money while he keeps out of trouble with a retrial pending.


link?


----------



## Patteran (Sep 13, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> link?



I'm not linking to it, but it's not hard to find. Hosted by Rebel Media.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 13, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> link?


Do you mean do you have a link that you could let me have _please_?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> link?


How did you manage to find urban?


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 13, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Do you mean do you have a link that you could let me have _please_?


What do you think I meant?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 13, 2018)

_You - give me a link. Do it now._


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 13, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> How did you manage to find urban?


I have it bookmarked, why?


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 13, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> _You - give me a link. Do it now._


Why are you trolling?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> I have it bookmarked, why?




How did you find it? I mean, I don't suppose your computer came with a bookmark? At some point you must have used a search engine.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> _You - give me a link. Do it now._


It's wicked to mock the afflicted


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 13, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> How did you find it? I mean, I don't suppose your computer came with a bookmark? At some point you must have used a search engine.



You're a bit stupid aren't you. And pretty creepy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> You're a bit stupid aren't you. And pretty creepy.


You're very stupid and rude with it


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> You're a bit stupid aren't you. And pretty creepy.



Christ.  And you're moaning in k&s about people being mean to you.  With your attitude its pretty amazing that anyone bothers to give you the time of day.


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 13, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> You're very stupid and rude with it


Glad you noticed sweet heart, now why don't you do a favour and fuck off because you are one of the most tedious creepy little trolls I've ever encountered. You contribute fuck all other than to sniff and sneer. You're just a sad old prick. Off you fuck


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 13, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Christ.  And you're moaning in k&s about people being mean to you.  With your attitude its pretty amazing that anyone bothers to give you the time of day.


Has nothing to do with being mean. Shitting all over the discussion just to score points against another user is stupid. Funny how you don't seem to mind that


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

The concept of the troll must be one of the oldest internet concepts yet it seems less and less people actually know what a troll or trolling is.


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 13, 2018)

I'd post a broken link if I could be arsed to listen to that self-important waste of space TR speak for long enough to find the relevant snippet.

But I can't, so mercy be damned.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Has nothing to do with being mean. Shitting all over the discussion just to score points against another user is stupid. Funny how you don't seem to mind that



You were rightly picked up for your bad manners and not for the first time.  You have a massive attitude problem.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> Glad you noticed sweet heart, now why don't you do a favour and fuck off because you are one of the most tedious creepy little trolls I've ever encountered. You contribute fuck all other than to sniff and sneer. You're just a sad old prick. Off you fuck


I'll be a happy auld prick as soon as you fuck off. If you bothered to read across the boards you'd see I've contributed more than you ever will, whether it's advice when your daughter's told the second year of her a level course is cancelled to providing emotional support when someone's husband dies in front of them. All I see you contributing is stupid threads which a moment's thought show founded on a false premise and rude demands for links cos you're too stupid to effectively use a search engine. We'll see who lasts longer here.


----------



## Patteran (Sep 13, 2018)

(Also worth noting I only know about this video because facebook suggested i might like the 'free tr' page. Which says something unpleasant about their engagement strategies, & odd about their targeting software - perhaps it can't/wont differentiate between left/right & just notes a previous engagement with politics pages.)


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 13, 2018)

Let's just get this out of the way so we can get back to more worthwhile stuff - this is a list of the names under which toast rider has been permanently banned before (i may have missed some). Each and every time for persistent abuse of mods and posters as well as threatening to and claiming to have taken steps to fuck up off boards relationships for posters:

wishface
awesome wells
who phd
Biscuitician
zxspectrum

Most of the people he's currently conning in the things that pissed you off today thread will not see this though.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 13, 2018)

Oh that worthless shit wells again.  The one who kept wishing cancer on people over minor disagreements.  What an asset to the boards.


----------



## Toast Rider (Sep 13, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> You were rightly picked up for your bad manners and not for the first time.  You have a massive attitude problem.


I displayed no bad manners. Simply saying 'link!' is both normal and acceptable. What is rude however is accusing others of rudeness in bad faith


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2018)

Toast Rider said:


> I displayed no bad manners. Simply saying 'link!' is both normal and acceptable. What is rude however is accusing others of rudeness in bad faith


Tell you what, rather than point out every time you're rude we'll change to pointing out the rare times you're polite.


----------



## Libertad (Sep 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Let's just get this out of the way so we can get back to more worthwhile stuff - this is a list of the names under which toast rider has been permanently banned before (i may have missed some). Each and every time for persistent abuse of mods and posters as well as threatening to and claiming to have take steps to fuck up off boards relationships for posters:
> 
> wishface
> awesome wells
> ...



Noted.


----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2018)

Three arrested after demonstrations take place in Sunderland city centre


Another march in Sunderland, arrests, etc, interesting these marches don't get the same media coverage as the ones, say in Chemnitz.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 19, 2018)

treelover said:


> Three arrested after demonstrations take place in Sunderland city centre
> 
> 
> Another march in Sunderland, arrests, etc, interesting these marches don't get the same media coverage as the ones, say in Chemnitz.


Sunderland lacks the exotic appeal and glamour of far-flung places like, er, Chemnitz.


----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2018)

Have you been to Chemnitz or other East.German cities? not Dresden/Leipzig.

I see that thug,Unush, was there with SUTR.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 19, 2018)

treelover said:


> Have you been to Chemnitz or other East.German cities? not Dresden/Leipzig.


Nope. Are you trying to tell me that Chemnitz is not exotic or glamorous?


----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2018)

lot different than the last march, which was mostly women, and seemed about the issue.


----------



## andysays (Sep 19, 2018)

treelover said:


> Three arrested after demonstrations take place in Sunderland city centre
> 
> 
> Another march in Sunderland, arrests, etc, interesting these marches don't get the same media coverage as the ones, say in Chemnitz.


I can't read that article without registering. Any chance of a c&p?


----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2018)

> Hundreds of people involved with Sunderland Unites and Stand Up To Racism North East, including members of trade unions, political parties and politicians, turned out in Keel Square in a show of unity against racism in the city.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## andysays (Sep 19, 2018)

treelover said:


> Three arrested after demonstrations take place in Sunderland city centre Another march in Sunderland, arrests, etc, interesting these marches don't get the same media coverage as the ones, say in Chemnitz.





> Previous marches organised by Justice for the Women and Children Group passed off peacefully.





> Chief Inspector Dave Guthrie, of Northumbria Police, said: “...the demonstration and counter-demonstration mainly passed without incident."


That's the difference and the explanation right there...


----------



## sunnysidedown (Sep 19, 2018)

treelover said:


> Three arrested after demonstrations take place in Sunderland city centre
> 
> 
> Another march in Sunderland, arrests, etc, interesting these marches don't get the same media coverage as the ones, say in Chemnitz.



You missed this then.

Violence erupts at anti-Muslim rally


----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2018)

Nothing like the coverage similar events get in Europe.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 19, 2018)

One of the key spokespersons in the Sunderland Women and Childrens Group who organise the demos, and is now employed by them,  is Sharon Binks. She's a TR supporter and conspiracy nutter who got sacked from her job as a Family Conference Cordinator for gross misconduct. The speakers at the demo included Ann Marie Waters, Richard Inman from Vets against Terror, Justice for our Boys, Justice for Jack.  Toni Bugle has spoken at previous rallies. The far right have pretty much taken over a legitimate local issue. One of the three arrested included this specimen


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 19, 2018)

justice for chelsey analogue - same old faces jumping on every possible bandwagon


----------



## teqniq (Sep 20, 2018)




----------



## The39thStep (Sep 27, 2018)

Back in court today


----------



## Athos (Sep 27, 2018)

treelover said:


> lot different than the last march, which was mostly women, and seemed about the issue.



The bloke in the very top right even has 'Fascist' written on his top!


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 27, 2018)

Tactically I would have thought that the anti TR lot should have got earlier and taken the position outside the court?


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 27, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Back in court today




"Never trust a lefty with your kids" some quality chants going down


----------



## Libertad (Sep 27, 2018)

Athos said:


> The bloke in the very top right even has 'Fascist' written on his top!



I think it reads 'Facist', which is apt.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2018)

.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2018)

Pubs shut around the old bailey
Tommy Robinson hearing: pubs near Old Bailey to close ahead of protests


----------



## rekil (Sep 27, 2018)

Has anyone asked Chicory Tip how they feel about this appropriation of 'Son Of My Father'. And what if their big hit had been 'I Love Onions' instead.


----------



## Athos (Sep 27, 2018)

Libertad said:


> I think it reads 'Facist', which is apt.


Not known for their literary prowess.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 27, 2018)

Athos said:


> The bloke in the very top right even has 'Fascist' written on his top!


It says FAC51 - The Hacienda


----------



## Athos (Sep 27, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> It says FAC51 - The Hacienda



Jesus, it was a joke!


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 27, 2018)

Judge Hilliard has adjourned the Tommy Robinson case to a date to be fixed.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 27, 2018)

23rd October. Quite good these adjournments because it means he has to keep a low profile. Fair turn out from his supporters but not the thousands that came out when he was jailed.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 27, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> It says FAC51 - The Hacienda



Athos not known for his literary prowess.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 27, 2018)

Large Generation ID flag which nobody has objected to


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 27, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> 23rd October. Quite good these adjournments because it means he has to keep a low profile. Fair turn out from his supporters but not the thousands that came out when he was jailed.


the other thing about adjournments is that each time a few fewer people will turn out.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 27, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> It says FAC51 - The Hacienda



He should drop a couple more E's. Might be inclined to be more pro-human.


----------



## Athos (Sep 27, 2018)

Favelado said:


> He should drop a couple more E's. Might be inclined to be more pro-human.


EEEDL


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 27, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> the other thing about adjournments is that each time a few fewer people will turn out.


The live feed shows about 1000 or so I think , The Guardian said 150 but thats barmy.


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (Sep 27, 2018)

Fashy Generation Identity in evidence there today with a crap “feather” style banner with “Real men fight back” emblazoned on it. 
Know your audience, eh?


----------



## rekil (Sep 27, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> The live feed shows about 1000 or so I think , The Guardian said 150 but thats barmy.


Overhead shots showed a couple of hundred at most. 



Spoiler


----------



## Poi E (Sep 27, 2018)

treelover said:


> lot different than the last march, which was mostly women, and seemed about the issue.



Can't they ban that fascist flag given the terrible aggression and slaughter associated with it?


----------



## krink (Sep 27, 2018)

Athos said:


> The bloke in the very top right even has 'Fascist' written on his top!



either this is an obscure new order joke or...

*eta ah it was a very good joke


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 27, 2018)

copliker said:


> Overhead shots showed a couple of hundred at most.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



Looked more than that but the live feed was street level.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 27, 2018)




----------



## Riklet (Sep 27, 2018)

Tommy being fitted up by the establishment yet again...


----------



## sim667 (Sep 27, 2018)

Awks


----------



## treelover (Sep 27, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> "Never trust a lefty with your kids" some quality chants going down



If they are all chanting that, not just the fash elements, isn't that a worry?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 27, 2018)

treelover said:


> If they are all chanting that, not just the fash elements, isn't that a worry?



 Being there  makes them "fash elements" kind of by definition.


----------



## LiamO (Sep 28, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> Being there  makes them "fash elements" kind of by definition.



No. It doesn't.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 28, 2018)

I can pretty much guarantee that anyone turning up to support Tommy Robinson at the Old Bailey is going to be one of

(a) fash
(b) ironic-but-not-really free speech internet fash


----------



## M Testa (Sep 28, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> the other thing about adjournments is that each time a few fewer people will turn out.


but the stress for robinson just continues. good.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 28, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I can pretty much guarantee that anyone turning up to support Tommy Robinson at the Old Bailey is going to be one of
> 
> (a) fash
> (b) ironic-but-not-really free speech internet fash



If all his supporters are genuine fash we’re really not in a good position at the moment.
 So let’s not wish that upon ourselves.

He’s being clever in his strategy to cast the net wider than genuine fash anyway. We can’t write off everyone who is falling for it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 28, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> If all his supporters are genuine fash we’re really not in a good position at the moment.
> So let’s not wish that upon ourselves.
> 
> He’s being clever in his strategy to cast the net wider than genuine fash anyway. We can’t write off everyone who is falling for it.


Anyone who actually turns up outside the Old Bailey is going to be far right or very unbothered by associating with them.

Is everyone who supports him generally a fascist? No, but increasingly so, as it becomes increasingly obvious where all this comes from (this coincides with the vast decrease in numbers turning out for FLA-related stuff). The rallies are far right ones now and the number of people who think they're there for anything else is way down. Nowadays it's basically the EDL mk ii.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 28, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Anyone who actually turns up outside the Old Bailey is going to be far right or very unbothered by associating with them.
> 
> Is everyone who supports him generally a fascist? No, but increasingly so, as it becomes increasingly obvious where all this comes from (this coincides with the vast decrease in numbers turning out for FLA-related stuff). The rallies are far right ones now and the number of people who think they're there for anything else is way down. Nowadays it's basically the EDL mk ii.



Yes, this is how it looks from a particular viewpoint. But from another, there’s people who are dissatisfied with the way things are and are becoming politicised so at the moment the likes of Robinson appears to be the radical choice for some of those people; it’s a mistake and a tragedy that the left not only drove them there but are willing to write them off as fascists so easily.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 28, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yes, this is how it looks from a particular viewpoint. But from another, there’s people who are dissatisfied with the way things are and are becoming politicised so at the moment the likes of Robinson appears to be the radical choice for some of those people; it’s a mistake and a tragedy that the left not only drove them there but are willing to write them off as such so easily.


I'm not just saying this because I read it on SUTR or something - I've physically followed marches and rallies around this area for a while and the sort of people who turn up now are very different to, say, the second big FLA march which had tens of thousands. The motivations that people have are complex and I don't want to generalise but the increasingly naked far right political message combined with the falling turnouts and the widely-stated "we don't want politics in here, we just want to be heard" point say to me that people are being turned off, and fewer and fewer are turning to Robinson and surrounding movements because of alienation or whatever. They may be dissatisfied (who isn't) but they aren't going that way because it just looks like more political and/or showbiz cunts who don't give a shit.

Oh and "the left" didn't drive anyone anywhere.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 28, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'm not just saying this because I read it on SUTR or something - I've physically followed marches and rallies around this area for a while and the sort of people who turn up now are very different to, say, the second big FLA march which had tens of thousands. The motivations that people have are complex and I don't want to generalise but the increasingly naked far right political message combined with the falling turnouts and the widely-stated "we don't want politics in here, we just want to be heard" point say to me that people are being turned off, and fewer and fewer are turning to Robinson and surrounding movements because of alienation or whatever. They may be dissatisfied (who isn't) but they aren't going that way because it just looks like more political and/or showbiz cunts who don't give a shit.
> 
> Oh and "the left" didn't drive anyone anywhere.



Yeah, complaints about Muslim rape gangs being routinely dismissed, or accused of racism; complaints about immigration being routinely dismissed, or accused of racism by well meaning liberals played no part in the aggressive rise of the far right across Europe.
After all - anyone giving such a complaint can be dismissed as such. And you’re doing it right now.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 28, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yeah, complaints about Muslim rape gangs being routinely dismissed, or accused of racism; complaints about immigration being routinely dismissed, or accused of racism by well meaning liberals played no part in the aggressive rise of the far right across Europe.
> After all - anyone giving such a complaint can be dismissed as such. And you’re doing it right now.


Sorry, for a moment there I thought you might actually be interested in talking about what was actually happening rather than trotting out a bog standard party line, but clearly that's not the case. Go for it but I'm not listening.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 28, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Sorry, for a moment there I thought you might actually be interested in talking about what was actually happening rather than trotting out a bog standard party line, but clearly that's not the case. Go for it but I'm not listening.



Thanks for replying.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 28, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yeah, complaints about Muslim rape gangs being routinely dismissed, or accused of racism; complaints about immigration being routinely dismissed, or accused of racism by well meaning liberals played no part in the aggressive rise of the far right across Europe.
> After all - anyone giving such a complaint can be dismissed as such. And you’re doing it right now.


You can of course provide evidence of the left (which you seem to assume has some kind of unified voice that actually has an impact on shit) doing these things?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 28, 2018)

emanymton said:


> You can of course provide evidence of the left (which you seem to assume has some kind of unified voice that actually has an impact on shit) doing these things?


 
Are you even watching the show?
The whole identity politics schtik is all about replacing the inconvenient working class for a new one that ticks more palatable boxes.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 28, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are you even watching the show?
> The whole identity politics schtik is all about replacing the inconvenient working class for a new one that ticks more palatable boxes.


So no then.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 28, 2018)

emanymton said:


> So no then.



Or, you don’t need your hand held to see the evidence.
I CBA really. Accept it or don’t.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 29, 2018)

I think you are the worst debater on the whole boards Magnus. Just constant strawmen and lazy mischaracterisation of others' posts.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 29, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yeah, complaints about Muslim rape gangs being routinely dismissed, or accused of racism; complaints about immigration being routinely dismissed, or accused of racism by well meaning liberals played no part in the aggressive rise of the far right across Europe.
> After all - anyone giving such a complaint can be dismissed as such. And you’re doing it right now.



Before reading and absorbing information as fact you are aware to ponder if someone is trying to sell you an agenda

Right..


----------



## Red Sky (Sep 29, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> If all his supporters are genuine fash we’re really not in a good position at the moment.
> So let’s not wish that upon ourselves.
> 
> He’s being clever in his strategy to cast the net wider than genuine fash anyway. We can’t write off everyone who is falling for it.



Very few of his supporters are "genuine fash" if by that you mean ideological fascists.  Generation Identity might fit the bill. The Stormfront crowd and Nick Griffin think he's a Zionist shill.

But in a way that makes his whole off the cuff ultra nationalism more dangerous,  more in tune with common sense and the Shitegeist.


----------



## marty21 (Sep 29, 2018)

This guy got the hump about a newsthump post  which basically said if Tommy doesn't like our laws he should leave the country  which set this guy off on a epic Gammon rant


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 29, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yes, this is how it looks from a particular viewpoint. But from another, there’s people who are dissatisfied with the way things are and are becoming politicised so at the moment the likes of Robinson appears to be the radical choice for some of those people; it’s a mistake and a tragedy that the left not only drove them there but are willing to write them off as fascists so easily.


Most of them are around or sympathetic mainly to UKIP and a smaller amount for For Britain rather than fash, still quite unpleasant far right agenda.The only fash group who is  nibbling is Gen ID who sems to be accepted if seen as at the margins.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 29, 2018)

marty21 said:


> View attachment 148384 This guy got the hump about a newsthump post  which basically said if Tommy doesn't like our laws he should leave the country  which set this guy off on a epic Gammon rant


UKIP should run a campaign on repeal the comtempt laws


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yeah, complaints about Muslim rape gangs being routinely dismissed, or accused of racism; complaints about immigration being routinely dismissed, or accused of racism by well meaning liberals played no part in the aggressive rise of the far right across Europe.
> After all - anyone giving such a complaint can be dismissed as such. And you’re doing it right now.


Funnily enough, as a catholic, TR never seems to mention the institutionalised abuse of children within his own religion.

His interests aren't protecting children, his interests are having a go at people with brown skin.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 2, 2018)

Every catholic should have to sign a statement - in public - that they don't support paedos. Or bombs and that.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 2, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Every catholic should have to sign a statement - in public - that they don't support paedos. Or bombs and that.


Signed in blood , with a cross.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 2, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Funnily enough, as a catholic, TR never seems to mention the institutionalised abuse of children within his own religion.
> 
> His interests aren't protecting children, his interests are having a go at people with brown skin.



Of course plenty of Catholics have brown skin and plenty of Muslims don't - but yeah, I get it.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> Of course plenty of Catholics have brown skin and plenty of Muslims don't - but yeah, I get it.



In the context of the world, yeah thats certainly the case..... but in the mind of the idiots who dwell in the UK, there's a clear definition of what the perceive of each.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 2, 2018)

The working class has no use for liberal hand-wringing


----------



## treelover (Oct 2, 2018)

Looking to see if this guy has a twitter/FB account, can't see one.


----------



## Humberto (Oct 3, 2018)

As others have said, and as good posters on here have done, we need to distance ourselves from those who would sooner decry the sensibilities of the nascent nabobs of working class concerns rather than fight them on their own turf, and win.

We should be bringing the class together, and as the article linked above says, to fight for left solutions. e.g. blow up empty falsehoods, fight tooth and nail for the concerns of our communities. Liberals are not our friends. They are an arm of the establishment. Their poison ruins our streets. e.g. cuts to all services and rise in violent crime. Or how it impoverishes, for instance the rise in homelessness. 

Call it what you will, I call it a careless approach to verifying the difference between left and right causes. That may offend some, so I'll say at least I find this website a good read, and I'm not saying otherwise. Still, to give in to liberalism is a grave mistake, to let them extenuate the one and feed the other, both poison.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 3, 2018)

Humberto said:


> As others have said, and as good posters on here have done, we need to distance ourselves from those who would sooner decry the sensibilities of the nascent nabobs of working class concerns rather than fight them on their own turf, and win.
> 
> We should be bringing the class together, and as the article linked above says, to fight for left solutions. e.g. blow up empty falsehoods, fight tooth and nail for the concerns of our communities. Liberals are not our friends. They are an arm of the establishment. Their poison ruins our streets. e.g. cuts to all services and rise in violent crime. Or how it impoverishes, for instance the rise in homelessness.
> 
> Call it what you will, I call it a careless approach to verifying the difference between left and right causes. That may offend some, so I'll say at least I find this website a good read, and I'm not saying otherwise. Still, to give in to liberalism is a grave mistake, to let them extenuate the one and feed the other, both poison.



Possibly. But it's not _just_ liberals and the middle classes who keep electing the Tories to government.


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 3, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> The working class has no use for liberal hand-wringing



How does the fact that the far right have been "humiliated regularly on the streets by anti fascists " square with the idea that anti fascism in its most recent incarnation has been "predominantly liberal"?


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 3, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> How does the fact that the far right have been "humiliated regularly on the streets by anti fascists " square with the idea that anti fascism in its most recent incarnation has been "predominantly liberal"?


He gets his terminology a bit mixed up  and actually I dont agree with his view that the far right have ben regularly humiliated. However you can have liberal intolerance and that can include violence and direct action , as in sections of the American liberal identity mileiu and its UK adherents , whereby no platform is extended to all sorts of views whilst at the same time embracing liberal identity politics /values.


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 3, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> He gets his terminology a bit mixed up  and actually I dont agree with his view that the far right have ben regularly humiliated. However you can have liberal intolerance and that can include violence and direct action , as in sections of the American liberal identity mileiu and its UK adherents , whereby no platform is extended to all sorts of views whilst at the same time embracing liberal identity politics /values.



They have been humiliated. "Regularly" is debatable. They've been confronted and it's gone both ways. 

I'm glad that the union movement is finally acknowledging the importance of this issue. However this article is another example (in places) of the chronic desire to punch leftward.

Yes we should celebrate Anna Campbell as a hero. But also remember that she was a vegan, gender activist,  hunt saboteur and activist with the AFN.  I.e one of the "radical liberal" tradition routinely despised here.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 3, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> They have been humiliated. "Regularly" is debatable. They've been confronted and it's gone both ways.
> 
> I'm glad that the union movement is finally acknowledging the importance of this issue. However this article is another example (in places) of the chronic desire to punch leftward.
> 
> Yes we should celebrate Anna Campbell as a hero. But also remember that she was a vegan, gender activist,  hunt saboteur and activist with the AFN.  I.e one of the "radical liberal" tradition routinely despised here.



If the 'desire to punch leftward' is an attempt to put antifascism more on a working class footing then I am all for it. With all due respect to those who have died fighting ISIS I really am not bothered about their choice of diet, views on hunting, sexuality or what group they were in.


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 3, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> If the 'desire to punch leftward' is an attempt to put antifascism more on a working class footing then I am all for it. With all due respect to those who have died fighting ISIS I really am not bothered about their choice of diet, views on hunting, sexuality or what group they were in.



Not interested in the slightest in what motivated them to support that struggle? Odd position.

The presumption that anti fascism wasn't on a working class footing before is what makes the article punch leftward.

That it needed rescuing from people like Anna Campbell.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 3, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Not interested in the slightest in what motivated them to support that struggle? Odd position.
> 
> The presumption that anti fascism wasn't on a working class footing before is what makes the article punch leftward.
> 
> That it needed rescuing from people like Anna Campbell.



Theres a wide range of motivations for fighting ISIS .If you are saying being a vegan or a hunt sab is one of them fine but personally I dont buy into id-kit antifascism. It takes all sorts tbh and I can only admire her bravery and the other volunteers bravery what ever reasons they had. As for the presumption whats wrong with it?


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 3, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Theres a wide range of motivations for fighting ISIS .If you are saying being a vegan or a hunt sab is one of them fine but personally I dont buy into id-kit antifascism. It takes all sorts tbh and I can only admire her bravery and the other volunteers bravery what ever reasons they had. As for the presumption whats wrong with it?



What's "id kit" anti fascism?

The presumption,  tirelessly repeated on here and elsewhere is just way off the mark. Both in terms of politics and the people involved.


----------



## hot air baboon (Oct 4, 2018)

Morning Star article said:
			
		

> Not one YPG volunteer has promoted the far right, not even Ukip.
> This issue belongs to the left, by rights.





The39thStep said:


> Theres a wide range of motivations for fighting ISIS .



this character for example - a peshmerga volunteer


----------



## 8ball (Oct 4, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Yes we should celebrate Anna Campbell as a hero. But also remember that she was a vegan, gender activist,  hunt saboteur and activist with the AFN.  I.e one of the "radical liberal" tradition routinely despised here.



There really needs be an agreed definition of "liberal" that we can put in the FAQs.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 4, 2018)

8ball said:


> There really needs be an agreed definition of "liberal" that we can put in the FAQs.



You have the 'murican definition which seems to include anyone outside of the GOP way of thinking, so it's a bit of a nebulous ask.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 4, 2018)

krtek a houby said:


> You have the 'murican definition which seems to include anyone outside of the GOP way of thinking, so it's a bit of a nebulous ask.



If we're going to have an insult with no agreed specific content, what was wrong with "cunt"?


----------



## emanymton (Oct 4, 2018)

8ball said:


> There really needs be an agreed definition of "liberal" that we can put in the FAQs.


Person I disagree with.


----------



## krtek a houby (Oct 4, 2018)

8ball said:


> If we're going to have an insult with no agreed specific content, what was wrong with "cunt"?



Yeah, sure but to some 'muricans left = liberals.


----------



## Humberto (Oct 4, 2018)

Lib dems, Blairites, vicars, loves Obama, thinks giving fringe hard right wingers platforms is balance

someone will be along with an actual definition


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 4, 2018)

People who tend towards rights activism but don’t necessarily think capitalism is the problem; just the form it’s in / how it’s managed is left liberalism (there’s probably better definitions).


----------



## Arbeter Fraynd (Oct 4, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> People who tend towards rights activism but don’t necessarily think capitalism is the problem; just the form it’s in / how it’s managed is left liberalism (there’s probably better definitions).


 
I'm pretty sure that doesn't cover Anna Campbell


----------



## 8ball (Oct 4, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> People who tend towards rights activism but don’t necessarily think capitalism is the problem; just the form it’s in / how it’s managed is left liberalism (there’s probably better definitions).



Capitalism - there's another word that gets used a bunch of different ways...


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 4, 2018)

Arbeter Fraynd said:


> I'm pretty sure that doesn't cover Anna Campbell



I didn’t realise the question involved her.


----------



## treelover (Oct 4, 2018)

Teenager QUITS college after being shamed for supporting Tommy Robinson

Teenage allegedly told to get out of room, frightened to go back to training course, for endorsing Tommy Robinson. Not defending Robinson, but she is 17, her dad is a TR supporter, if this has happened in the seventies/early 80's, Ricky Tomlinson, Billy Bragg, plenty in Searchlight, and lots of other working class men would have lost their jobs, etc.

of course she could have said much more we don't know about,


----------



## 8ball (Oct 4, 2018)

treelover said:


> Teenager QUITS college after being shamed for supporting Tommy Robinson
> 
> Teenage allegedly told to get out of room, frightened to go back to training course, for endorsing Tommy Robinson. Not defending Robinson, but she is 17, her dad is a TR supporter, if this has happened in the seventies/early 80's, Ricky Tomlinson, Billy Bragg, plenty in Searchlight, and lots of other working class men would have lost their jobs, etc.
> 
> of course she could have said much more we don't know about,



I don't think these are youngsters that we should be pushing away from education - quite the opposite.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 4, 2018)

hot air baboon said:


> this character for example - a peshmerga volunteer
> 
> View attachment 148778


Not sure he fought with the YPG . There's been some, mainly Yanks, who have fought alongside Syrian Christian militia . There's a case coming up in November of a returned volunteer charged with terrorism , he's in Belmarsh at the moment and suffers from mental health issues . His girlfriend has been trying to lobby UKIP to take up his case .


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2018)

treelover said:


> Teenager QUITS college after being shamed for supporting Tommy Robinson
> 
> Teenage allegedly told to get out of room, frightened to go back to training course, for endorsing Tommy Robinson. Not defending Robinson, but she is 17, her dad is a TR supporter, if this has happened in the seventies/early 80's, Ricky Tomlinson, Billy Bragg, plenty in Searchlight, and lots of other working class men would have lost their jobs, etc.
> 
> of course she could have said much more we don't know about,



I suspect this didn't actually happen, and she's simply salty that people disagreed with her.


----------



## treelover (Oct 4, 2018)

It has got massive traction on Robinsons FB site.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 4, 2018)

My daughter finished secondary school in Tottenham recently and there was some alt-right _spends too much time on the internet_ twat in some of her classes.

I was surprised about how tolerant the school and other pupils seemed to be, given the infuriating sexist and crypto-racist stuff he seemed to be coming out with. Everyone thought he was a dickhead and he came off worse in discussions, but I think that was about the extent of it.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 4, 2018)

sim667 said:


> I suspect this didn't actually happen, and she's simply salty that people disagreed with her.



What makes you suspect this?


----------



## chilango (Oct 4, 2018)

8ball said:


> What makes you suspect this?



Reading the linked article.

Certainly made me suspect that the headline was at least misleading.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2018)

8ball said:


> What makes you suspect this?


Having worked as a lecturer for 16 - 18's.

Also why hasn't the paper asked the college for comment?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 4, 2018)

8ball said:


> What makes you suspect this?



I think there is a clear contradiction between the pupil's account of what happened and the statement from the college at the end.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 4, 2018)

chilango said:


> Reading the linked article.
> 
> Certainly made me suspect that the headline was at least misleading.



You mean the "final warning" bit.  That does look a bit elaborated.


----------



## chilango (Oct 4, 2018)

8ball said:


> You mean the "final warning" bit.  That does look a bit elaborated.



I mean the entire story.

It really doesn't read like a true account of something that would've actually happened in a classroom.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 4, 2018)

chilango said:


> I mean the entire story.
> 
> It really doesn't read like a true account of something that would've actually happened in a classroom.



Some of the reporting looks a little ropey but it reads exactly like how people tend to behave when confronted with views they don't like.


----------



## chilango (Oct 4, 2018)

8ball said:


> Some of the reporting looks a little ropey but it reads exactly like how people tend to behave when confronted with views they don't like.



In classrooms? Nah.

I spent a lot of time in them (10s of thousands of hours in all kinds of capacity in all kinds of provisions) and I've never witnessed anything resembling that account.

Something might well have happened. Or more likely a number of separate, unrelated things might have happened, that have been selectively cobbled together to form this story.

But I would be astonished if the above report bore even a passing resemblance to what actually happened.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 4, 2018)

chilango said:


> In classrooms? Nah.
> 
> I spent a lot of time in them (10s of thousands of hours in all kinds of capacity in all kinds of provisions) and I've never witnessed anything resembling that account.
> 
> ...



That would prove that never happened, then.


----------



## emanymton (Oct 4, 2018)

chilango said:


> I mean the entire story.
> 
> It really doesn't read like a true account of something that would've actually happened in a classroom.


What, you don't believe classrooms are breaking out into sudden and almost unanimous praise of Corbyn and the Labour party. Surely not.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 4, 2018)

but but but treelover posted it, must be true, they've got all the best sources and trufs


----------



## chilango (Oct 4, 2018)

8ball said:


> That would prove that never happened, then.



Proof? Of course not.

Cause me "reasonable doubt"? Absolutely. Which I'll maintain until I hear something compelling otherwise.


----------



## treelover (Oct 4, 2018)

ddraig said:


> but but but treelover posted it, must be true, they've got all the best sources and trufs




ah, back to this again, I said 'allegedly' it was in a local paper, i am just reposting it.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 4, 2018)

treelover said:


> ah, back to this again, I said 'allegedly' it was in a local paper, i am just reposting it.


but why are you reposting it?
and what is your point adding this?



			
				treelover said:
			
		

> if this has happened in the seventies/early 80's, Ricky Tomlinson, Billy Bragg, plenty in Searchlight, and lots of other working class men would have lost their jobs, etc.


----------



## chilango (Oct 4, 2018)

treelover said:


> Teenager QUITS college after being shamed for supporting Tommy Robinson
> 
> Teenage allegedly told to get out of room, frightened to go back to training course, for endorsing Tommy Robinson. Not defending Robinson, but she is 17, her dad is a TR supporter, if this has happened in the seventies/early 80's, Ricky Tomlinson, Billy Bragg, plenty in Searchlight, and lots of other working class men would have lost their jobs, etc.
> 
> of course she could have said much more we don't know about,





Nobody has lost their job.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 4, 2018)

Well I imagine Ricky Tomlinson lost a few jobs down to being blacklisted. And possibly by briefly being in the NF too. Fuck knows what that’s got to do with anything though. 

A better parallel would be the Front’s “name and shame a red teacher” campaign in Bulldog which resulted in some physical attacks on teachers iirc.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 4, 2018)

Also i’d personally prefer it if Billy Bragg had had less work. I mean not so he starved to death or anything. Just a lower profile would have suited me.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 4, 2018)

chilango said:


> Nobody has lost their job.


maybe treelover thinks they (the teacher) should? find it confusing too


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2018)

It reads like somebody trying to shoehorn the “colleges are full of free-speech hating liberals” myth into an English context.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 4, 2018)

When will lefty teachers stop burning the Union Jack.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 4, 2018)

chilango said:


> Nobody has lost their job.


----------



## chilango (Oct 4, 2018)

8ball said:


>



treelover said


> if this has happened in the seventies/early 80's, Ricky Tomlinson, Billy Bragg, plenty in Searchlight, and lots of other working class men would have lost their jobs, etc.



...which seems a bit of a leap from the story of a girl claiming to have been asked to leave a classroom.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 4, 2018)

chilango said:


> ...which seems a bit of a leap from the story of a girl claiming to have been asked to leave a classroom.



Well, yeah.  I expect in a lot of professional environments people are far more loath to voice support for S.Y-L. than a naive kid starting a college course.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 4, 2018)

Fozzie Bear said:


> When will lefty teachers stop burning the Union Jack.


When the academy trust lets the principal turn the heating back on?


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 16, 2018)

God know if this is an actual recording but the story is is that it was sent to Yaxley-Lennon  who promptly posted it on his Facebook site.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 16, 2018)

On a somewhat TR subject, Vinni Sullivan who had his minor five minutes of fame this summer turns out to actually be Vincent Burke ( obviously he had to change his name) who got a restraining order and had to do community service for hounding his ex girlfriend. 

Chingford man handed restraining order after texting Waltham Abbey ex-girlfriend 80 times a day | East London and West Essex Guardian Series


----------



## jimmer (Oct 17, 2018)

Veterans Against Terrorism (who were initially part of the DFLA split from the FLA) have called a protest on Saturday for Leicester Square at midday as part of Robinson's 'I am Soldier X' campaign. Robinson is backing this on his Facebook page even though he can't attend himself. The video has been viewed tens of thousands of times and shared a lot. It's going to be interesting to see the numbers this protest gets, it's not had much promotion apart from Robinson's video, but I can still see it being bigger than the DFLA protest last weekend and drawing much of the same crowd.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 20, 2018)

jimmer said:


> Veterans Against Terrorism (who were initially part of the DFLA split from the FLA) have called a protest on Saturday for Leicester Square at midday as part of Robinson's 'I am Soldier X' campaign. Robinson is backing this on his Facebook page even though he can't attend himself. The video has been viewed tens of thousands of times and shared a lot. It's going to be interesting to see the numbers this protest gets, it's not had much promotion apart from Robinson's video, but I can still see it being bigger than the DFLA protest last weekend and drawing much of the same crowd.


I went along to check this out earlier today and at around 20 past 12 there were a few dozen people there, maybe a hundred tops. I'm guessing this didn't suddenly increase to thousands.


----------



## jimmer (Oct 22, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I went along to check this out earlier today and at around 20 past 12 there were a few dozen people there, maybe a hundred tops. I'm guessing this didn't suddenly increase to thousands.


Yeah it doesn't look like it was as big as I thought it would be. Guess that would have been different if Robinson had been going himself. A group of DFLA who were out at this did try to have a pop at the Stand Up To Racism conference later in the day. I imagine most Robinson supporters are saving themselves for the demo outside the court tomorrow.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 23, 2018)




----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2018)

The39thStep said:


>



it's what i always say, delegation goes up as well as down


----------



## M Testa (Oct 23, 2018)

this can be used as a political tactic, keep someone tied up in impossible legal complexities, give bail but with harsh restrictions... £ommy can probably go back to his £1m house and count his money whilst laughing at his gullible supporters, eating crisps and reading about himself on twitter.


----------



## 19force8 (Oct 23, 2018)

Strewth, any excuse to keep the money wagon rolling along. £2million in donations so far. The likes of Weston, Fransen., Waters, Golding etc etc must be fuming at all that loot going down the drain.


----------



## 19force8 (Oct 23, 2018)

Oh and a heartfelt thank you to the anti-fascists who turned out to oppose his worshippers today.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 23, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> it's what i always say, delegation goes up as well as down


The Recorder has bottled it .


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2018)

M Testa said:


> this can be used as a political tactic, keep someone tied up in impossible legal complexities, give bail but with harsh restrictions... £ommy can probably go back to his £1m house and count his money whilst laughing at his gullible supporters, eating crisps and reading about himself on twitter.


crivens


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 23, 2018)

This is some write up in the Independent of the court case 
Tommy Robinson walks free after judge refers case to Attorney General


----------



## jimmer (Oct 23, 2018)

M Testa said:


> this can be used as a political tactic, keep someone tied up in impossible legal complexities, give bail but with harsh restrictions... £ommy can probably go back to his £1m house and count his money whilst laughing at his gullible supporters, eating crisps and reading about himself on twitter.


That can be a thing, but as Robinson's legal team asked for the case to be referred to the Attorney General, it's not what's happening here. Robinson will now get something closer to a full trial for the contempt charge, rather than this being dealt with solely by a senior judge. I imagine the thinks he's got a better chance of getting off.


----------



## Whagwan (Oct 23, 2018)

Times reporting that he has sacked his lawyers and wants to go back inside as it is so lucrative.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 23, 2018)

jimmer said:


> Veterans Against Terrorism (who were initially part of the DFLA split from the FLA) have called a protest on Saturday for Leicester Square at midday as part of Robinson's 'I am Soldier X' campaign. Robinson is backing this on his Facebook page even though he can't attend himself. The video has been viewed tens of thousands of times and shared a lot. It's going to be interesting to see the numbers this protest gets, it's not had much promotion apart from Robinson's video, but I can still see it being bigger than the DFLA protest last weekend and drawing much of the same crowd.


I came across this when I was on the anti Brexit march (actually when I left it to go home)  , it was on side street near Trafalgar Square . There were about 50 or so people listening to a bloke speaking from a truck .


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2018)

marty21 said:


> I came across this when I was on the anti Brexit march (actually when I left it to go home)  , it was on side street near Trafalgar Square . There were about 50 or so people listening to a bloke speaking from a truck .


was his face puce?


----------



## marty21 (Oct 23, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> was his face puce?


I didn't look at him for long - just walked past the rather small protest


----------



## mx wcfc (Oct 23, 2018)

Has this not been posted yet?  oh dear.


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 24, 2018)




----------



## steveo87 (Oct 24, 2018)

DexterTCN said:


>



Is there another way to view the story? It being in the Sun and all ...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 24, 2018)

Scum links? Christ alive.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 24, 2018)

Tommy Robinson enjoys lavish House of Lords lunch with UKIP after leaving court


> Tommy Robinson enjoyed a lengthy House of Lords lunch with UKIP's leader just moments after walking free from court, it's been revealed.
> 
> The far-right English Defence League (EDL) founder was spotted yesterday in the plush Barry Room in the highly-guarded Palace of Westminster - before continuing with a boozy session in a nearby pub.
> 
> The 35-year-old - who yesterday addressed hundreds of right-wing activists on a stage outside the Old Bailey - posed with UKIP leader Gerard Batten and UKIP peer Lord Pearson at a statue of Richard the Lionheart in Parliament.


----------



## DexterTCN (Oct 24, 2018)

steveo87 said:


> Is there another way to view the story? It being in the Sun and all ...


I was only posting the tweet, I wouldn't click on a sun link either, sorry.


----------



## jimmer (Oct 24, 2018)

UKIP trying to latch onto the cult of Tommy Robinson is pretty funny. Batten and Pearson seem to think they can ape the success of various far-right/nationalist parties in Europe by adopting Islamophobic policies, despite this having led to their vote declining when Nuttall was leader. If you want an idea of some of the arguments UKIP types have been making for getting Robinson involved in the party, I'd suggest looking at this article by a leading figure in their youth-wing who also runs the website it's published on.

REECE COOMBES: It's Time To Stop Looking Backwards And Let Tommy Robinson Join UKIP | Kipper Central

They seem to think Robinson's large social media following (just under a million people) could be used to push the party forwards. Completely ignoring the fact that a large chunk of his following is either based overseas or just following him to see what he's doing. The proportion of his followers who're eligible to vote in the UK and would vote for a party he endorsed is presumably only a few hundred thousand, spread across hundreds of constituencies. I'd bet that the number of people they gained from getting Robinson more involved in the party would be similar to the number of people they'll alienate by becoming more far-right.


----------



## Poi E (Oct 25, 2018)

Until UKIP change their name to the English Independence Party they won't get the traction they need. They may as well fill that gaping chasm.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 25, 2018)

Anyone at a loose end might like to head down Islington Town Hall this evening, where tr supporters are gathering to oppose sadiq khan's mayoral question time. 6pm on


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 25, 2018)

Late callout.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 26, 2018)

Fascinating Guardian 'The long read' yesterday : Tommy Robinson and the far right's new playbook
Be warned, this is pretty long  but IMO it's a far-from-bad piece (and very critical)  about how "Tommy Robinson" has managed to acquire such a significant online following 

One plus-point is that the twat is referred to as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon throughout, with the words "Tommy Robinson" only appearing about twice (one of those examples being in the headline).

ETA : Apologies, I've had not been on this thread at all until now, so I'm jumping in blatantly late. And I've had no time/even less inclination to catch up on 81 pages .
The above link _is_ new though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Late callout.


called it as soon as i got it, didn't see you doing any better


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 26, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Late callout.



Well , nothing happened apparently.


----------



## Red Sky (Oct 26, 2018)

William of Walworth said:


> Fascinating Guardian 'The long read' yesterday : Tommy Robinson and the far right's new playbook
> Be warned, this is pretty long  but IMO it's a far-from-bad piece (and very critical)  about how "Tommy Robinson" has managed to acquire such a significant online following
> 
> One plus-point is that the twat is referred to as Stephen Yaxley-Lennon throughout, with the words "Tommy Robinson" only appearing about twice (one of those examples being in the headline).
> ...



Good piece.


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2018)

Britain's finest 



















11 men wanted over 'Welcome Trump' and 'Free Tommy Robinson' rally violence | Metro News


----------



## Poi E (Oct 29, 2018)

They'll learn. Balaclavas next time.


----------



## keybored (Nov 9, 2018)

Banned for life from using PayPal now. Peak martyrdom.


----------



## Ranbay (Nov 9, 2018)

the paypal facbook page is full of people who have closed their accounts (which they havent)


----------



## gosub (Dec 24, 2018)

https://www.politico.eu/article/tom...ake-the-british-establishments-head-blow-off/


----------



## Poi E (Dec 24, 2018)

The article mentions a quote from Churchill that he has tattooed on his arm:

"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England."

This woe-is-me we cannot speak our country's name bullshit is the self-pitying end of some really fucking nasty nationalism.


----------



## Yossarian (Dec 24, 2018)

Poi E said:


> The article mentions a quote from Churchill that he has tattooed on his arm:
> 
> "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England."
> 
> This woe-is-me we cannot speak our country's name bullshit is the self-pitying end of some really fucking nasty nationalism.



In the highly unlikely event Tommy Robinson ever passes out drunk at my house, he's going to wake up with a tattoo saying: "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ZYENGLANDDU."


----------



## not-bono-ever (Dec 24, 2018)

Populists invariably ride the winged horse of infamy for a while. it Never ends well for them


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Dec 24, 2018)

Yossarian said:


> In the highly unlikely event Tommy Robinson ever passes out drunk at my house, he's going to wake up with a tattoo saying: "There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is ZYENGLANDDU."



Or "That word is Eggland"


----------



## Poi E (Dec 24, 2018)

not-bono-ever said:


> Populists invariably ride the winged horse of infamy for a while. it Never ends well for them



Or many of those around them.


----------



## likesfish (Dec 27, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> God know if this is an actual recording but the story is is that it was sent to Yaxley-Lennon  who promptly posted it on his Facebook site.





Sounds quite genuine plenty of people in the military who hold far right views come out and publicly state them like these imbeciles and your get hammered one of the re units was on a final warning and is now ex military. 
  The General who waffled on about a military coup against corbyn was anynmous and probably drunk. Even in the mad 70s talk of coups was dismissed by actual serving officers the would be instigator after his "rousing" speach at Sandhurst with concerns of his sobriety and sanity.


----------



## Poi E (Dec 27, 2018)

Yeah but the country wasn't falling apart at the seams then.


----------



## mauvais (Feb 25, 2019)

SYL seems to have managed to muster a few thousand supporters at an anti-BBC demo in Salford on Saturday. You used to be able to rely on this stuff to backfire in short order but not exactly happened - lots of support for him from the general public on the likes of SalfordOnline. Depressing.


----------



## CRI (Feb 26, 2019)

Well, some good news . . . 

Tommy Robinson banned by Facebook  - CNN



> Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, is being removed from both platforms because he posted anti-Muslim content and engaged in activity offline supporting hate figures and groups, Facebook said in a statement.
> "Tommy Robinson's Facebook Page has repeatedly broken these standards, posting material that uses dehumanizing language and calls for violence targeted at Muslims," Facebook said.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 26, 2019)

editor said:


> Britain's finest
> 
> 
> 
> ...


my favourite fascist fuckwit was the daft wanker who drew a swastika in his own blood on the side of a coach at a service station near dover a couple of years ago, at a collision with anti-fascists 

nicked slam dunk


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2019)

Hahahahahaha. You twat. 



> Tommy Robinson, the far-right founder of the English Defence League, has been permanently banned from Facebook and Instagram for repeatedly breaking the sites’ policies on hate speech, Facebook said.
> 
> The company said Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, broke rules that ban public calls for violence against people based on protected characteristics; rules that ban supporting or appearing with organised hate groups; and policies that prevent people from using the site to bully others.
> 
> ...



Tommy Robinson banned from Facebook and Instagram


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 26, 2019)

Favourite facist-wise I reckon you’d have to go quite some way to beat ‘muslamic rayguns’


----------



## Poi E (Feb 26, 2019)

Bad news. Martyr to the evil corporation suppressing free speech.


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Bad news. Martyr to the evil corporation suppressing free speech.


If only he hadn't broken those clearly stated rules that apply to everyone else.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Feb 26, 2019)

Can we merge the two threads? Or close one of them?

Tommy Robinson UKIP Adviser

editor - this is annoying me!

E2A - apologies for the tone of this post.  That sounds very much like I was giving orders or something.  Not my intention...


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 26, 2019)

CRI said:


> Well, some good news . . .
> 
> Tommy Robinson banned by Facebook  - CNN


As final a defeat for the far right as anyone could hope for.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Feb 26, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> As final a defeat for the far right as anyone could hope for.



You really think this will make him and his followers go away?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Feb 26, 2019)

Johnny Vodka said:


> You really think this will make him and his followers go away?


Yes. That was a thoroughly heartfelt post and I was in no way taking the piss.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Feb 27, 2019)

This is what his scum did earlier today.


----------



## alex_ (Feb 28, 2019)

Mumbles274 said:


> This is what his scum did earlier today. View attachment 163202



Like them, it’s not even clever.


----------



## agricola (Feb 28, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> my favourite fascist fuckwit was the daft wanker who drew a swastika in his own blood on the side of a coach at a service station near dover a couple of years ago, at a collision with anti-fascists
> 
> nicked slam dunk



Its a little known fact that the nationwide cuts in police funding were the direct consequence of the arresting PC saying "he was caught red-handed, sarge" to the custody officer.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 28, 2019)

agricola said:


> Its a little known fact that the nationwide cuts in police funding were the direct consequence of the arresting PC saying "he was caught red-handed, sarge" to the custody officer.


Meanwhile the master criminal known only as 'La Crème Anglaise' was being detained by the Custardy Sergeant


----------



## rekil (Feb 28, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> Meanwhile the master criminal known only as 'La Crème Anglaise' was being detained by the Custardy Sergeant





Spoiler


----------



## ska invita (Mar 1, 2019)

mauvais said:


> SYL seems to have managed to muster a few thousand supporters at an anti-BBC demo in Salford on Saturday. You used to be able to rely on this stuff to backfire in short order but not exactly happened - lots of support for him from the general public on the likes of SalfordOnline. Depressing.


just spoke to someone who was there...3000 Robinsons crew against 600 who turned out against- 5 to 1 - ...after some time the police lead the antis en masse to the station under protection out of fear for them - and rightly so according to the person i spoke to


----------



## treelover (Mar 1, 2019)

How many on the SYL demo would have been up for some violence, a considerable number?


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 1, 2019)

There's a need for some context by and large very mixed group of supporters women , older folk , some with disabilities and  a minority who if the odds were with them might be up for it. However very heavily policed at the site . I know two women who attended the counter demo who said apart from being a bit wary getting back to Manchester weren't fazed in the slightest . STUTR might have a few probs in the City Centre with harassment from Goddard and his disciples but the fact they don't take active steps to resolve this issue is more of their failing than any real threat.


----------



## 19force8 (Mar 3, 2019)

Seems he's due to get a "please explain" today regarding certain defamatory remarks about a schoolboy.

Tommy Robinson served with legal letter over 'defamation' of attacked Syrian refugee


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 3, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> There's a need for some context by and large very mixed group of supporters women , older folk , some with disabilities and  a minority who if the odds were with them might be up for it.



Tommy Robinson (and other fash) have jumped on the ‘free Melanie Shaw’ bandwagon (Shaw is currently detained under the MHA, and the the horror she’s been through is being spun as an ‘establishment cover up’ conspiracy) The DFLA appear to be getting involved in anti-austerity stuff too - one of their supporters organised a ‘scrap universal credit’ demonstration. 

As with the Red-Browns, the conspiraloons and the cults, the sheer misery that disabled/mad people live provides SYL and his hangers on a nice opportunity to exploit people’s anger.


----------



## Theisticle (Mar 3, 2019)

Tommy was certainly ‘animated’ during this interview with Alex Jones


----------



## Badgers (Apr 2, 2019)




----------



## pesh (Apr 2, 2019)

cocaine induced heart attack before he hits 40


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2019)

Worth a thread of its own for the extra LOLz



> Ex-English Defence League leader Tommy Robinson has been found in contempt of court for his Facebook Live broadcast of defendants in a criminal trial.
> 
> High Court judges ruled his conduct "amounted to a serious interference with the administration of justice".


Tommy Robinson guilty over Facebook broadcast


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 5, 2019)

Oh dear, how sad, never-mind.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jul 5, 2019)

Have a great weekend everybody!


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 5, 2019)

Social media will be infested with triggered gammons tonight.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Jul 5, 2019)

They're figured a way to stop him getting sent millions of pounds by dullards whilst doing now sentence, as well, haven't they?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 5, 2019)

His defense team has asked for time, before he's sentenced, for them to prepare a medical report, that will show going back to prison would be detrimental to his mental health.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2019)

The good news just keeps on coming



> One of the senior judges, Dame Victoria Sharp, said the court will consider what penalty to impose for the contempt - which carries a maximum penalty of two years - and give full reasons for the decision at a later date.
> 
> He was originally jailed for 13 months after being found in contempt of court on the day of the broadcast but was released two months into his sentence after winning an appeal.
> 
> The case was then referred back to the attorney general, who announced in March that it was in the public interest to bring fresh proceedings.


----------



## andysays (Jul 5, 2019)

Tommy's gone...


----------



## agricola (Jul 5, 2019)

Jon-of-arc said:


> They're figured a way to stop him getting sent millions of pounds by dullards whilst doing now sentence, as well, haven't they?



If by "dullards" you mean "the loon element of the US Right" - then no


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Jul 5, 2019)

Good.  Hope they give the scumbag the maximum sentence.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2019)

I've had to open factories in Bedford, Luton and dunstable to cope with the soaring demand for my tiny violins


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 5, 2019)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Good.  Hope they give the scumbag the maximum sentence.



And a jolly good hoofing whilst inside


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2019)

Mr.Bishie said:


> And a jolly good hoofing whilst inside


I'd have to laugh if he was converted to Islam inside


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2019)

Aw, he might not be able to come along to the miners' gala next week now


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 5, 2019)

Apparently James Goddard has been arrested too, not directly connected.


----------



## souljacker (Jul 5, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> His defense team has asked for time, before he's sentenced, for them to prepare a medical report, that will show going back to prison would be detrimental to his mental health.



He should be able to get his 'medicine' quite easily I'd have thought.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 5, 2019)

Tommy’s used to being in the dock
Judge has sent him down
He's down on his luck, it's tough, so tough


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2019)

Who is James Goddard?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Who is James Goddard?


Not the jg Olympic swimmer, but the fascist


----------



## Red Sky (Jul 5, 2019)

If I was a betting man, I'd say a suspended sentence.  Stops him being a martyr.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 5, 2019)

As an aside, how many times can a person be tried for the same thing? It seems odd to me that he won an appeal and was released, only to be tried again and found guilty. What changed between the time he won the appeal and was tried a second time?


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2019)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> As an aside, how many times can a person be tried for the same thing? It seems odd to me that he won an appeal and was released, only to be tried again and found guilty. What changed between the time he won the appeal and was tried a second time?



Well the details of the appeal matter, and there are lots of times that a retrial will happen. In this case:



> At the Court of Appeal, Lord Chief Justice Lord Burnett ruled the case be reheard after identifying technical and other failings.
> 
> Robinson's solicitors said everyone has the "right to a fair hearing".



Tommy Robinson bailed after appeal win

Its a right to a fair hearing, not the right to avoid having a hearing.


----------



## Cid (Jul 5, 2019)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> As an aside, how many times can a person be tried for the same thing? It seems odd to me that he won an appeal and was released, only to be tried again and found guilty. What changed between the time he won the appeal and was tried a second time?



On a quick scan his conviction wasn't quashed, just referred for retrial.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 5, 2019)

elbows said:


> Well the details of the appeal matter, and there are lots of times that a retrial will happen. In this case:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ok I think I get you. So he was released temporarily until the trial could proceed without whatever technical oversights occurred the first time?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 5, 2019)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Ok I think I get you. So he was released temporarily until the trial could proceed without whatever technical oversights occurred the first time?



By golly he's got it.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 5, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> By golly he's got it.



Alright no need to be sarky. It's the end of a long day, ok?


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Jul 5, 2019)

It would be amusing if people found out which prison he was in (assuming they lock him up), and send him  copies of the Quran.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 5, 2019)

And, milkshakes.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 5, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Tommy’s used to being in the dock
> Judge has sent him down
> He's down on his luck, it's tough, so tough



I started reading that as a limerick, then it went wrong.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Jul 5, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> And, milkshakes.


Delivered via water-cannon.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> If I was a betting man, I'd say a suspended sentence.  Stops him being a martyr.



Reckon you should stay away from the bookies. He was given 13 months before, served 2, so will probably get the other 11 or so


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2019)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Delivered via water-cannon.


----------



## Septimus Rufiji (Jul 5, 2019)

elbows said:


>


Kunt Anglo's Milk-O-Mania? By god, they make presents for all occasions these days, what an age to be alive.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2019)

8ball said:


> I started reading that as a limerick, then it went wrong.



Try again as a Bon Jovi lyric.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Jul 5, 2019)

elbows said:


>



An ingenious way of disposing of unwanted milk.  Preferably rancid.


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 5, 2019)

yep - that's Stanley's daughter


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 5, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Reckon you should stay away from the bookies. He was given 13 months before, served 2, so will probably get the other 11 or so



He also had a three-month suspended for doing exactly the same thing previously added to his tariff on the last conviction, which I presume will go back on this time too. He can’t really play the ignorance of the law card either because of the previous.

Hope they don’t make an example of him though because that plays into their martyr mythology.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2019)

hot air baboon said:


> yep - that's Stanley's daughter
> 
> View attachment 176427


My first thought was Edwards which led to great confusion


----------



## Wilf (Jul 5, 2019)

hot air baboon said:


> yep - that's Stanley's daughter
> 
> View attachment 176427


Apparently a scientologist as well (wiki).


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Aw, he might not be able to come along to the miners' gala next week now



Was the cunt ever going? Or you ripping the piss? 
E2+ of course he wasn’t fuckin going


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2019)

Mr.Bishpost:
[16112601 said:
			
		

> Was the cunt ever going? Or you ripping the piss?
> E2+ of course he wasn’t fuckin going



I’m not ripping the piss mate, but maybe ‘For Britain’ were. He was expected as a main speaker at whatever it is they think they’re organising alongside the Miners’ Gala.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2019)

Im looking forward to it. Grand day out.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 5, 2019)

hot air baboon said:


> yep - that's Stanley's daughter
> 
> View attachment 176427



Stanley was a bit of an edgelord, but her twitter stuff is well random and off its face


----------



## mx wcfc (Jul 5, 2019)




----------



## Ax^ (Jul 5, 2019)

if it is not rather oddly resolved by the British legal system as time served,

which sadly i suspect


it will be fun to see Tommie's  litigation  against a set prison sentence  claiming  that again he worried about being killed

after proclaiming after his last release that the black and Muslim inmates had no problem with his position


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 5, 2019)

mx wcfc said:


>



Tommy Robinson bus given parking ticket outside court


----------



## mx wcfc (Jul 5, 2019)

I don't want to derail the thread,  but in the days before we all had cameras on our phones, I saw a traffic warden giving a ticket to a congestion charge camera van.  The Evening Standard would have paid me a fortune for that picture.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 5, 2019)

mx wcfc said:


>




that has cheered me up no end


----------



## Gromit (Jul 5, 2019)

elbows said:


> Its a right to a fair hearing, not the right to avoid having a hearing.



How the lawyer keeps a straight face.
Tommy was doing his best to stop someone else from having a fair hearing. That was his crime.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not ripping the piss mate, but maybe ‘For Britain’ were. He was expected as a main speaker at whatever it is they think they’re organising alongside the Miners’ Gala.
> 
> View attachment 176439


The local paper here (Durham) said he was attending.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2019)

Not now though


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not now though


His dickhead minions probably will be though. Hope they get a Liverpool style reception.


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 5, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Hope they don’t make an example of him though because that plays into their martyr mythology.


Even if they set him free with public apologies and a years supply of Waitrose vouchers his supporters would make political capital out of it. 

They will be more concerned about setting the sentence at a level that's appeal proof than about the "optics".


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 5, 2019)

Calamity1971 said:


> His dickhead minions probably will be though. Hope they get a Liverpool style reception.



'For Britain' tried the same last year. They turned up intent on winding up socialists with a police escort then pretended they'd been disallowed to fly the union flag rather than removed for their own safety.
They're coming back again this year to hassle the organised working class but this time they're expected.


----------



## mx wcfc (Jul 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not ripping the piss mate, but maybe ‘For Britain’ were. He was expected as a main speaker at whatever it is they think they’re organising alongside the Miners’ Gala.
> 
> View attachment 176439


Are they allowed to use the Royal Standard?


----------



## MrSpikey (Jul 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> If I was a betting man, I'd say a suspended sentence.  Stops him being a martyr.



I'm not so sure. One of the judges classified Robinson's actions as "serious interference", and if reports of his video being used to try and dismiss the jury in the grooming trial are accurate, I suspect they will be taking it pretty seriously.


----------



## mx wcfc (Jul 5, 2019)

MrSpikey said:


> I'm not so sure. One of the judges classified Robinson's actions as "serious interference", and if reports of his video being used to try and dismiss the jury in the grooming trial are accurate, I suspect they will be taking it pretty seriously.


I agree - I think he will do time.  There was a something I read (further up on here?) that his legal team have asked for time to prepare mental health reports to suggest that he shouldn't be jailed.  I can't imagine the Courts putting up with that (precedents etc) .  He's going down.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 5, 2019)

at least he can spend his time constructively penning his seliminal opus " my scuffle"*

( *has this been done yet ?)


----------



## MrSpikey (Jul 6, 2019)

mx wcfc said:


> I agree - I think he will do time.  There was a something I read (further up on here?) that his legal team have asked for time to prepare mental health reports to suggest that he shouldn't be jailed.  I can't imagine the Courts putting up with that (precedents etc) .  He's going down.


Sentencing is (provisionally) set for next Thursday, according to that BBC piece, so it doesn't sound like the court is taking that request particularly seriously.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 6, 2019)

I think the state will quite like some of his trouble making so hang tight for a suspended sentence.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 6, 2019)

Already has a suspended for previously committing the same offence, so he’ll be at least serving that plus any new time.


----------



## BCBlues (Jul 6, 2019)

Shame he doesnt keep his hand over his mouth more often. Give the environment a break from his claptrap.


----------



## MrSpikey (Jul 6, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Already has a suspended for previously committing the same offence, so he’ll be at least serving that plus any new time.


He had 3 months suspended from the earlier offence, and was in jail for about that length of time before being released. If the earlier sentence was the usual 50:50 jail time : probation, the jail component will have been served plus he'll have around a month and a half time served to be knocked off any new jail time.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 6, 2019)

hot air baboon said:


> yep - that's Stanley's daughter
> View attachment 176427


she needs to watch clockwork orange and look at how totalitarianism works, especially on younger people.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 6, 2019)

there are people with far worse mental health issues in prison than robinson. the only thing he's worried about is that those whose religion he has slated continually since 2009 may want a 'robust discussion' (copyright RA/AFA).' he has been attacked before but so have many other prisoners and even if he gets put on the nonce wing there are still people there who may wish to remonstrate.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jul 6, 2019)

I think the hardest thing for him will be scoring coke in prison.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not ripping the piss mate, but maybe ‘For Britain’ were. He was expected as a main speaker at whatever it is they think they’re organising alongside the Miners’ Gala.
> 
> View attachment 176439


TR News is just a TR fanboy site, it's not him.


----------



## agricola (Jul 6, 2019)

MrSpikey said:


> I'm not so sure. One of the judges classified Robinson's actions as "serious interference", and if reports of his video being used to try and dismiss the jury in the grooming trial are accurate, I suspect they will be taking it pretty seriously.



One would hope so.  I am not that sure that wasn't the aim all along to be honest, given the outrage that would follow (edit: and personal benefit to himself) from a collapsed trial like that.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 6, 2019)

Quality. 



apologies I see this has already been posted


----------



## WouldBe (Jul 6, 2019)

mx wcfc said:


> Are they allowed to use the Royal Standard?


Only if they are all raving queens.


----------



## WouldBe (Jul 6, 2019)

mx wcfc said:


> I don't want to derail the thread,  but in the days before we all had cameras on our phones, I saw a traffic warden giving a ticket to a congestion charge camera van.  The Evening Standard would have paid me a fortune for that picture.


I saw one dithering over whether to put a ticket on an ambulance on a shout.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 6, 2019)

farmerbarleymow said:


> Good.  Hope they give the scumbag the maximum sentence.


I hope he drops dead personally, but regardless of outcome he will be a martyr to his twisted cause. There's little that can stop that now. The media have consistently failed to deal with him and the interests backing him are both insidious an deep pocketed. I've already read Batten's unhinged tweet complaining that he's had to face sovereign justice...while platforming against the EU for taking away our sovereignty. No doubt he'll quietly urge Yaxley Lennon to take it to the EHRC because no shame. Gorka will be wailing about this on his facebook radio show along with Crowder, Infowars, and the rest of these piss artist motherfuckers


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 6, 2019)

Jon-of-arc said:


> They're figured a way to stop him getting sent millions of pounds by dullards whilst doing now sentence, as well, haven't they?



If I'm a person actually named Thomas Robinson there's no way I'm not doing an online fundraiser to cash in on the shit-for-brains racist pound.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 6, 2019)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> I think the hardest thing for him will be scoring coke in prison.


Fat chance. He'll get a hero's welcome and be treated as one of the 'lads'. He speaks "da troof like", he's a working class hero don'tcha know. Sticking it to all the lefties


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 6, 2019)

hot air baboon said:


> yep - that's Stanley's daughter
> 
> View attachment 176427



Lucky for Stan he's dead and won't have to read this shit.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jul 6, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> Fat chance. He'll get a hero's welcome and be treated as one of the 'lads'. He speaks "da troof like", he's a working class hero don'tcha know. Sticking it to all the lefties


Is that "da troof like" a stereotypical "working class" accent you're doing there? Please stop. It makes you sound like a right liberal guardianista.


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 6, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> Fat chance. He'll get a hero's welcome and be treated as one of the 'lads'. He speaks "da troof like", he's a working class hero don'tcha know. Sticking it to all the lefties



That's a quite clueless reading of how prison works. 

But carry on implying that all the cons are racist.  he'll get more applause from the screws than the cons but hey, what do I know? I've only spent time in in big man jail. 

Yaxley-Lennon is going to go straight on the numbers, it's going to be the only way hell be even vaguely safe. He goes on a main wing and he'll try and give it the big un, believe his own hype sort of thing....and he'll go over the landing. Which will be a great shame I'm sure.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 6, 2019)

teqniq said:


> Quality.
> 
> 
> 
> apologies I see this has already been posted




It was posted before, but worth a re-post!


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 6, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> That's a quite clueless reading of how prison works.
> 
> But carry on implying that all the cons are racist.  he'll get more applause from the screws than the cons but hey, what do I know? I've only spent time in in big man jail.
> 
> Yaxley-Lennon is going to go straight on the numbers, it's going to be the only way hell be even vaguely safe. He goes on a main wing and he'll try and give it the big un, believe his own hype sort of thing....and he'll go over the landing. Which will be a great shame I'm sure.


I didn't say all cons were racist nor did I imply it, that's a ridiculous oversimplification of the appeal of the guy.


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 6, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> I didn't say all cons were racist nor did I imply it, that's a ridiculous oversimplification of the appeal of the guy.



Careful you don't get whiplash from the wild back pedal there.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 6, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> TR News is just a TR fanboy site, it's not him.



Ah right, fair dos, didn’t realise.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 6, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> Careful you don't get whiplash from the wild back pedal there.


Show me where I said or implied that all cons are racist


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 6, 2019)

Yaxley Lennon in prison will be a nobody - hes a gobshite blowhard and he will be in with serious criminals and genuine hard cases who will not in the least bit impressed by his puffed up, self glorifying bullshit.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 6, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> Show me where I said or implied that all cons are racist





Rivendelboy said:


> He'll get a hero's welcome and be treated as one of the 'lads'.


----------



## Favelado (Jul 6, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Yaxley Lennon in prison will be a nobody - hes a gobshite blowhard and he will be in with serious criminals and genuine hard cases who will not in the least bit impressed by his puffed up, self glorifying bullshit.



You reckon? Won't some of the lads in there be fans of his? I don't know but I guessed they would be.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Yaxley Lennon in prison will be a nobody - hes a gobshite blowhard and he will be in with serious criminals and genuine hard cases who will not in the least bit impressed by his puffed up, self glorifying bullshit.


Oh I think there's a chance he'll catch up with some like-minded souls even if he doesn't meet some auld mates


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2019)

Favelado said:


> You reckon? Won't some of the lads in there be fans of his? I don't know but I guessed they would be.


And that's before you bring screws into the equation


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 6, 2019)

And how does it entail from that I'm saying all cons are racist? Plenty of people believe Yaxley Lennon, not simply because they are themselves racist, but because they identify with his underdog 'revolutionary' brand. He wouldn't be half as popular if he were simply or merely racist. He's become way more than that and that's why he's now so dangerous. You're just being utterly ignorant and looking for a scrap. Jog on


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 6, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> And how does it entail from that I'm saying all cons are racist? Plenty of people believe Yaxley Lennon, not simply because they are themselves racist, but because they identify with his underdog 'revolutionary' brand. He wouldn't be half as popular if he were simply or merely racist. He's become way more than that and that's why he's now so dangerous. You're just being utterly ignorant and looking for a scrap. Jog on



It’s almost as if everyone in prison are white right wingers and talk in some imagined way.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’s almost as if everyone in prison are white right wingers and talk in some imagined way.


Well fortunately for you I've clarified my post, you're welcome. And blocked. I'm not interested in tedious trolls looking for a bunfight


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 6, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> Well fortunately for you I've clarified my post, you're welcome. And blocked. I'm not interested in tedious trolls looking for a bunfight



A bit extreme to block me for wanting a discussion.


----------



## kenny g (Jul 6, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> I'm not interested in tedious trolls looking for a bunfight


 Unfortunately this is the internet and I suspect there may be quite a few of these characters to be found. BTW I agree with you that Mr five name's seems to find support from people who are not self declared racists.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 6, 2019)

kenny g said:


> Unfortunately this is the internet and I suspect there may be quite a few of these characters to be found. BTW I agree with you that Mr five name's seems to find support from people who are not self declared racists.



Because Islam is a religion not a race. We all know the rest of the song.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> Well fortunately for you I've clarified my post, you're welcome. And blocked. I'm not interested in tedious trolls looking for a bunfight


Don't know what you're doing on urban then


----------



## likesfish (Jul 7, 2019)

Well the people funding his lifestyle arnt buying more guns if yanks so theres that I suppose.


----------



## GarveyLives (Jul 7, 2019)

> _"I think the hardest thing for him will be scoring coke *in prison*."_





> _"Fat chance. He'll get a *hero's welcome* and be treated as one of the 'lads'."_



As at the end of March 2018, just over a quarter of the UK prison population (_26%_) was from a _non-white ethnic group_; _Muslim_ prisoners accounted for _15%_ of the prison population (Source: House of Commons Library Briefing Paper Number CBP-04334, 23 July 2018, "UK Prison Population Statistics"). (Figures not split by gender).

Is is dificult to see how any / many of these inmates will regard Mr *Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon* as a "hero" to _them_.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 8, 2019)

GarveyLives said:


> As at the end of March 2018, just over a quarter of the UK prison population (_26%_) was from a _non-white ethnic group_; _Muslim_ prisoners accounted for _15%_ of the prison population (Source: House of Commons Library Briefing Paper Number CBP-04334, 23 July 2018, "UK Prison Population Statistics"). (Figures not split by gender).
> 
> Is is dificult to see how any / many of these inmates will regard Mr *Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon* as a "hero" to _them_.


So the majority are white, which doesnt invalidate my claim


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 8, 2019)

I bet there’s some right fuckwits out there calling their babies ‘Tommy’ in honour of this shithouse prick. Poor fucking kids.


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 8, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> So the majority are white, which doesnt invalidate my claim



Riiiiiiiight. It's only the white prisoners that are racist, my mistake.  it'll be all confetti and cupcakes on the landings from them when Yaxley-Lennon steps onto the wing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> Riiiiiiiight. It's only the white prisoners that are racist, my mistake.  it'll be all confetti and cupcakes on the landings from them when Yaxley-Lennon steps onto the wing.


it's wicked to mock the afflicted


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 8, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> it's wicked to mock the afflicted



You're quite right. I should check myself back into HMP as penance and anyway I do hear the new uniform of white hood and robes are quite spiffing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> You're quite right. I should check myself back into HMP as penance and anyway I do hear the new uniform of white hood and robes are quite spiffing.


no  it's wicked to mock the afflicted


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 8, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> Riiiiiiiight. It's only the white prisoners that are racist, my mistake.  it'll be all confetti and cupcakes on the landings from them when Yaxley-Lennon steps onto the wing.


How on earth have you come to the conclusion I said anything of the sort?


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 8, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> So the majority are white, which doesnt invalidate my claim



That's how.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> How on earth have you come to the conclusion I said anything of the sort?


by reading what you wrote i think you'll find


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 8, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> That's how.


And you infer that means "It's only the white prisoners that are racist"? That's some spectacularly uncharitable and deliberate misrepresentation. What exactly are you trying to prove here?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> And you infer that means "It's only the white prisoners that are racist"? That's some spectacularly uncharitable and deliberate misrepresentation. What exactly are you trying to prove here?


i'm bemused by your depiction of all white prisoners as racist


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 8, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm bemused by your depiction of all white prisoners as racist


Tommy Robinson guilty over Facebook broadcast

Give it a rest, you're just being a troll at this point.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 8, 2019)

Argonia said:


> Who is James Goddard?



A guy who screamed at police "IT'S WAR, EVERY SUNDAY, IT'S WAR" during a protest, and then threatened to behead a journalist.

He's not the smartest peanut in the turd.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 8, 2019)

sim667 said:


> A guy who screamed at police "IT'S WAR, EVERY SUNDAY, IT'S WAR" during a protest, and then threatened to behead a journalist.
> 
> He's not the smartest peanut in the turd.


He, along with a bunch of ideological clones, busted up a lefty bookshop last year (iirc) as well.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 8, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> He, along with a bunch of ideological clones, busted up a lefty bookshop last year (iirc) as well.


Bookmarks?


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 8, 2019)

The video of Goddard getting arrested is funny as fuck.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 8, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> The video of Goddard getting arrested is funny as fuck.


He got released on bail Saturday morning


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 8, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> He got released on bail Saturday morning



I'd read something along them lines. It's just...he was so quiet, such a melt right up until he noticed he was being filmed and starts giving it the biggun  knowing the old bill wouldn't do anything.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 8, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> I'd read something along them lines. It's just...he was so quiet, such a melt right up until he noticed he was being filmed and starts giving it the biggun  knowing the old bill wouldn't do anything.


You are right he's just a gobshite with a chip on his shoulder who plays to the cameras .


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 8, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Bookmarks?




Isn't one of these James Goddard?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 8, 2019)

Rivendelboy said:


> Isn't one of these James Goddard?



No . 
They were/are UKIP around a little group led by Luke Jones . 
Jone's group has pretty much fallen by the way tbh he was expelled from UKIP and at the same time ended up in quite a lot of rows and being threatened by others on the right . 

Max and Busker ( the little kid and the gobby one whose voice you mainly hear) ended up hanging around with Tracey Blackwell (who Goddard campaigned for and dossed at her house.)  The Trump guy is a domestic abuser from Sheffield , the bloke with the bald head is Nazi or was .


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 8, 2019)

OK, my bad


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2019)

Desperate times for Tommy. On InfoWars, the stupid cunt. He's shitting his pants about prison. 



> Tommy Robinson has launched a public appeal for Donald Trump to grant him asylum as he faces imprisonment.
> 
> The anti-Islam activist, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, was found to have committed contempt of court last week.
> 
> Ahead of his sentencing hearing on Thursday, Robinson appeared on the InfoWars conspiracy channel to broadcast a message to the US president.





> “I beg Donald Trump, I beg the American government, to look at my case,” he said on Monday. “I need evacuation from this country because dark forces are at work.”
> 
> Robinson claimed that he would be killed if he is jailed, alleging that British prisons are “controlled by jihadi gangs”.



Tommy Robinson begs Donald Trump to grant him political asylum


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 9, 2019)

editor said:


> Desperate times for Tommy. On InfoWars, the stupid cunt. He's shitting his pants about prison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh the irony of Yaxley-Lennon wanting to claim asylum....it's quite delicious.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jul 9, 2019)

Will that make him a self-hating asylum seeker?


----------



## pesh (Jul 9, 2019)

editor said:


> Tommy Robinson begs Donald Trump to grant him political asylum


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Don't know what you're doing on urban then


They see us rollin’, they hatin’


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 9, 2019)

editor said:


> Desperate times for Tommy. On InfoWars, the stupid cunt. He's shitting his pants about prison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If that fails, he might be able to find sanctuary in the Ecuadorean embassy, I hear they have a vacancy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

editor said:


> Desperate times for Tommy. On InfoWars, the stupid cunt. He's shitting his pants about prison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 9, 2019)

Nice the Inde also has a photo-set of him getting milkshaked, Stephen Yakult Lennon


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> If that fails, he might be able to find sanctuary in the Ecuadorean embassy, I hear they have a vacancy.


The embassy staff will either resign en masse or kick any new political asylum seeker to death and smuggle him out bit by bit in mcd's bags. They're not putting up with another seven years of shit - literally shit - after Assange.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 9, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

Badgers said:


>



i can't say he looks entirely well in that video


----------



## Benjy1992 (Jul 9, 2019)

Tommy appears to misunderstand basic contempt of court laws. You can't prejudice and risk collapsing a trial and get away with it. He fancies himself as a journalist yet can't grasp basic media law? Hope he gets given the full weight of the law.


----------



## MrSki (Jul 9, 2019)

editor said:


> Desperate times for Tommy. On InfoWars, the stupid cunt. He's shitting his pants about prison.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2019)

Benjy1992 said:


> Tommy appears to misunderstand basic contempt of court laws. You can't prejudice and risk collapsing a trial and get away with it. He fancies himself as a journalist yet can't grasp basic media law? Hope he gets given the full weight of the law.



He's not a journalist, he's a very naughty boy.


----------



## Benjy1992 (Jul 9, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> He's not a journalist, he's a very naughty boy.


As well as being fascist scum who enjoys milkshakes.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 9, 2019)

That is hilarious.

Clutching at straws to avoid a bit of bird. 
Internet hard man is complete wuss shocker.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 9, 2019)

Just rattling the tin for fash round the world to fill up the coffers, surely?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 9, 2019)

Isnt he banned from entering the US due to entering fraudulently previously?


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 9, 2019)

If only there was someone that could speak to Trump, perhaps over a nice state dinner featuring other fascist world leaders, on his behalf...


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 9, 2019)

https://newsthump.com/2019/07/09/sa...Rnu3KjMZYTKwOnI3a2HCHljwSUWWJt2e57Z2sT3v4WuVE

Satire writers to take the day off after Tommy Robinson tries to become asylum seeker.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 9, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Just rattling the tin for fash round the world to fill up the coffers, surely?



Going for the self-pitying wretch dollar now that the indignant victim dollar has all been used up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Isnt he banned from entering the US due to entering fraudulently previously?


i believe he can still go to guantanamo


----------



## likesfish (Jul 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Isnt he banned from entering the US due to entering fraudulently previously?


he could always try swimming the Mexican border although somebody trying to build a wall so he shouldn't waste any time.
  one of the ways in through the desert crosses a missile range one of the targets provides the only shade for miles away the US and UK military check it for migrants before shooting and give the migrants water and a lift to safety*

*its not the safest of routes and its a better option than another 30 miles through the desert


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 9, 2019)

Should he not seek asylum in France is it's the closest safe country?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 9, 2019)

Ranbay said:


> Should he not seek asylum in France is it's the closest safe country?


You obviously hate the French.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 9, 2019)

Gromit said:


> You obviously hate the French.



Ja


----------



## M Testa (Jul 9, 2019)

massive irony sadly, trump is keeping violent criminals out of the USA. tough tits tommy!


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> my favourite fascist fuckwit was the daft wanker who drew a swastika in his own blood on the side of a coach at a service station near dover a couple of years ago, at a collision with anti-fascists
> 
> nicked slam dunk


Even better, the sight of the Blood Swastica so appalled the police we got a rather light touch when they detained everyone.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 9, 2019)

if america takes this seriously, and if he goes to america, and if they ignore his violent criminal record, and if he gets in, he will thus be a fugitive from UK justice. what will happen to his massive house and cars and designer clothes and his kids who he has said he is 'fighting for.'


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

The US wont let him in now. They won't give succour to the horrible cunt.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 9, 2019)

im amazed no one is looking into his finances - money laundering, drug profits, undeclared earnings, donations, whip rounds, money raised for legal help etc. how the fuck does an en unemployed thug afford that house, car etc?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 9, 2019)

Badgers said:


>




HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAAHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAAAA!!!!  
<snort>


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

He looked scared and off his face on coke.


----------



## klang (Jul 9, 2019)

made my day, that!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

littleseb said:


> made my day, that!


there's a . to everything after all


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

i don't reckon he'd have had a *really* hard time of inside before. but i think he's just made certain that everyone in stir will know he's a craven wanker with all the backbone of a slug


----------



## klang (Jul 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> there's a . to everything after all


in his case I'm still hoping for a vanishing ..


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

littleseb said:


> in his case I'm still hoping for a vanishing ..


if he's unlucky he might come out with only a ;


----------



## klang (Jul 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't reckon he'd have had a *really* hard time of inside before


he does look like he's worried about it / can't be fucked with it / is not enjoying the martyr role any more. 
he looks fucked.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

littleseb said:


> he does look like he's worried about it / can't be fucked with it / is not enjoying the martyr role any more.
> he looks fucked.


The more he shit stirs in this life the harder prison becomes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

TopCat said:


> The more he shit stirs in this life the harder prison becomes.


i think that it's videos like that which undermines his appeal to supporters and potential supporters more than 100,000 opponents on the streets would

no one wants to follow a cowardly blowhard


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i think that it's videos like that which undermines his appeal to supporters and potential supporters more than 100,000 opponents on the streets would
> 
> no one wants to follow a cowardly blowhard



Yeah no head held high there innit. He led them up the hill and burst into tears.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i think that it's videos like that which undermines his appeal to supporters and potential supporters more than 100,000 opponents on the streets would
> 
> no one wants to follow a cowardly blowhard



Brave Sir Robin, indeed.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Yeah no head held high there innit. He led them up the hill and burst into tears.


he loves this country so much that given half a chance he'd scarper to america


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Brave Sir Robin, indeed.


 how did i miss that?!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 9, 2019)

he could take inspiration from the likes of Nelson Mandela and use his time as a poltical prisoner as the basis for his autobiography. 
"Long Snort to Freedom"


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Isnt he banned from entering the US due to entering fraudulently previously?



that and drug convictions


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 9, 2019)

Ax^ said:


> that and drug convictions



And mortgage fraud.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 9, 2019)

The best bit is that he's not just asking for asylum, he seems to think they'll actually come in and rescue him. I'm sure they're putting together a crack unit of Navy SEALS for the job right now.


----------



## klang (Jul 9, 2019)

if he'd be financially better off in the US he'd be an economic migrant


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 9, 2019)

There’s the soon to vacant job of ambassador to the USA coming up- why does he apply for that?


----------



## klang (Jul 9, 2019)

Ax^ said:


> that and drug convictions





Magnus McGinty said:


> And mortgage fraud.


he can always lie on his Esta.


----------



## tim (Jul 9, 2019)

I know boutique hotel in Central London where Tommy will be safe. They have a nice room with excellent media faciy that had just been vacated by a previous occupant


----------



## tim (Jul 9, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The best bit is that he's not just asking for asylum, he seems to think they'll actually come in and rescue him. I'm sure they're putting together a crack unit of Navy SEALS for the job right now.




Don has  talked Vlad who is sending crack Russian Navy seals to take Tommy to safety.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

tim said:


> I know boutique hotel in Central London where Tommy will be safe. They have a nice room with excellent media faciy that had just been vacated by a previous occupant


yeh. the staff have indicated that anyone trying on what their former 'guest' tried on will be ejected from the building from the third floor, head first


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The best bit is that he's not just asking for asylum, he seems to think they'll actually come in and rescue him. I'm sure they're putting together a crack unit of Navy SEALS for the job right now.


Yeah he wants to be evacuated! Do it now with a huge pump.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 9, 2019)

So long as they bungle the rescue like american special forces always seem to do. Tommy loses a hand or a bollock to a flashbang.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

Last days of Saigon style. Hanging on the helicopter rail with one steadily loosening hand.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

Canm  someone photo shop his head in place of Saddam when he popped out of his bunker?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> So long as they bungle the rescue like american special forces always seem to do. Tommy loses a hand or a bollock to a flashbang.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Last days of Saigon style. Hanging on the helicopter rail with one steadily loosening hand.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 9, 2019)

As long as they use the same approach as carter did in Iran with the hostages , then it will go swimmingly

Bah. Too slow


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 9, 2019)

Maybe he could invoke the tale of Von Ryan’s express and him and his steadfast crew make a break for the border using a hijacked northern rail pacer train


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

not-bono-ever said:


> Maybe he could invoke the tale of Von Ryan’s express and him and his steadfast crew make a break for the border using a hijacked northern rail pacer train


Just burst out laughing at this .


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)




----------



## pesh (Jul 9, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The best bit is that he's not just asking for asylum, he seems to think they'll actually come in and rescue him. I'm sure they're putting together a crack unit of Navy SEALS for the job right now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)




----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

This will be amusing for his whole stretch and beyond. Something to cheer the country, bringing libs and socialists,  anarchists alike all together in laughter and gloating at the deserved predicament of this shit stirring cunt.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 9, 2019)

Apparantly he isn't on bail as the prosecution is a civil not a criminal one . This civil status also affects privileges inside , if he is imprisoned ie  can wear own clothes , more visits , doesn't have to work and in theory not to be placed in a cell with someone convicted under criminal law .


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 9, 2019)

no arbitrary limit on canteen spends per week ether then. So all the biscuits and batteries he needs


----------



## sim667 (Jul 9, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> The video of Goddard getting arrested is funny as fuck.


Link?

Edit: Found it. They're pretending to not know what he was arrested for either...... He does know, he was arrested for threatening to behead a journalist on camera.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> no arbitrary limit on canteen spends per week ether then. So all the biscuits and batteries he needs


How many biscuits to the gram I wonder?


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Apparantly he isn't on bail as the prosecution is a civil not a criminal one . This civil status also affects privileges inside , if he is imprisoned ie  can wear own clothes , more visits , doesn't have to work and in theory not to be placed in a cell with someone convicted under criminal law .


No criminal conviction either.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> no arbitrary limit on canteen spends per week ether then. So all the biscuits and batteries he needs



Not forgetting the milkshakes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

TopCat said:


> No criminal conviction either.


he's enough of those already


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> he's enough of those already


What's the known roll call then?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

TopCat said:


> What's the known roll call then?


from his wiki page


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

Yeah it aint accurate.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

Contempt of court being civil.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

What about arrests?  Can we all build a log?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 9, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> no arbitrary limit on canteen spends per week ether then. So all the biscuits and batteries he needs


I knew contempt was civil and get extra rights as result, like being on remand, but how does this bit work in practice - if people are sending him money can he live like a king or is there still some sort of limit?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 9, 2019)

If the prick gets a single cell no work and all the biscuits he wants then tbh it's not too shabby really


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I knew contempt was civil and get extra rights as result, like being on remand, but how does this bit work in practice - if people are sending him money can he live like a king or is there still some sort of limit?


It will come under the "I don't like your face Act 1612).


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

The screws will hate him because of all the shit his followers will send him.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> If the prick gets a single cell no work and all the biscuits he wants then tbh it's not too shabby really


Burgle his house when his away? Think big man..


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I knew contempt was civil and get extra rights as result, like being on remand, but how does this bit work in practice - if people are sending him money can he live like a king or is there still some sort of limit?


not sure, I just recall that convicted means you are limited, remand etc you are not. There must be some upper limit for practicality if nothing else.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

TopCat said:


> The screws will hate him because of all the shit his followers will send him.


not to mention all the shit his followers will send *them*


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Contempt of court being civil.



It appears it can civil or criminal...



> Because this charging decision was so unexpected, it followed that there was little legal precedent to call upon in order to establish what type of contempt our client had allegedly committed. Case law makes clear that only a party to the proceedings can commit a civil contempt, *but criminal contempt is committed if an order is breached by a “stranger to the litigation”.*
> 
> Contempt of court – civil or criminal? | Mackrell Turner Garrett



As Tommy the Twat was not party to the proceedings, it would appear to be a criminal matter in his case.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 9, 2019)

Anyway hopefully all his own threads will get taxed


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I knew contempt was civil and get extra rights as result, like being on remand, but how does this bit work in practice - if people are sending him money can he live like a king or is there still some sort of limit?


he'll be able to spend a certain amount each week, he won't be auld grouty out of porridge


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> It appears it can civil or criminal...
> 
> 
> 
> As Tommy the Twat was not party to the proceedings, it would appear to be a criminal matter in his case.


good spot


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> not sure, I just recall that convicted means you are limited, remand etc you are not. There must be some upper limit for practicality if nothing else.


A comrade was on remand in the 80's in Pentonville and you were allowed to bring fruit in every day. Well they got the biggest melon and rocked up to drop it off. john x told me the screws just said fuck off or else.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> not to mention all the shit his followers will send *them*


I want us to blue sky think on this now. How can we encourage, inflame and provoke a big horrible violent row between Tommeh and his rayguns and the forces of the POA?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

TopCat said:


> I want us to blue sky think on this now. How can we encourage, inflame and provoke a big horrible violent row between Tommeh and his rayguns and the forces of the POA?


picket the prison when the screws are arriving / departing demanding they release him from "the hole"


----------



## nogojones (Jul 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And mortgage fraud.


Can't he just tick no to everything on the ESTA? It's what we normally advise


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 9, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> It appears it can civil or criminal...
> 
> 
> 
> As Tommy the Twat was not party to the proceedings, it would appear to be a criminal matter in his case.



You are right in that contempt can be both but wrong that in this case it's criminal. There's a useful thread on it here


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 9, 2019)

My sister was able to bring her boyfriend curry and lager when he was on remand in 1988.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 9, 2019)

not been a good year for our tommy. At the start of the year he was on a role - the messiah of the far right, thousands cheering him on and  global fame (amongst cunts anyway)  - and he clearly believed his own hype. But this was followed by milkshakes, a trouncing in the election and the imminent prospect of a stretch in the can - and all this whilst having to care for serious and debilitating coke habit.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> You are right in that contempt can be both but wrong that in this case it's criminal. There's a useful thread on it here




This is odd.

I've just checked half a dozen reports of his latest conviction, none mention bail, one way or the other.

But, he was released on bail pending this latest hearing, perhaps that continues until he is sentenced.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 9, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> This is odd.
> 
> I've just checked half a dozen reports of his latest conviction, none mention bail, one way or the other.
> 
> But, he was released on bail pending this latest hearing, perhaps that continues until he is sentenced.


yes it complex.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> yes it complex.



Thing is, I don't do twitter, and have no idea who the people are on that thread, some are saying it's civil, others it's criminal.

The quote & link I provided was from a firm of solicitors, quoting case law, so I am inclined to accept that, over randoms on twitter, especially as he was released on bail pending this new hearing, suggesting it is indeed a criminal case.


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 9, 2019)

I seem to recall an interview with a prisoner who was in the same nick [Onley? mostly BAME prisoners anyway] last time saying they took a collective decision to lay off him because of potential backlash outside. So his "fear" is mostly performance and grift.

Actually said they wanted to show they were the better men, but there was definitely an awareness of potential martyrdom.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 9, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Thing is, I don't do twitter, and have no idea who the people are on that thread, some are saying it's civil, others it's criminal.
> 
> The quote & link I provided was from a firm of solicitors, quoting case law, so I am inclined to accept that, over randoms on twitter, especially as he was released on bail pending this new hearing, suggesting it is indeed a criminal case.


Fine but you'll have to fathom out why there was no issue of bail either unconditional or conditional .


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Fine but you'll have to fathom out why there was no issue of bail either unconditional or conditional .



As I posted before, perhaps the bail conditions in place before the new hearing continues, and therefore no new order was required?


----------



## M Testa (Jul 9, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The best bit is that he's not just asking for asylum, he seems to think they'll actually come in and rescue him. I'm sure they're putting together a crack unit of Navy SEALS for the job right now.



i don't think the Seals are taking him seriously!


----------



## M Testa (Jul 9, 2019)

TopCat said:


> This will be amusing for his whole stretch and beyond. Something to cheer the country, bringing libs and socialists,  anarchists alike all together in laughter and gloating at the deserved predicament of this shit stirring cunt.



bi-partisan schadenfreude?


----------



## M Testa (Jul 9, 2019)

*2005: Jailed for 12 months for assault
2010: Arrested for public order offence
2011: Convicted for football hooliganism
2011: Jailed for breaching bail conditions
2011: Convicted for assault
2011: Jailed for rooftop protest in Switzerland
2013 Jailed for using false passport
2014: Jailed for mortgage fraud
2014: Convicted for public order offences
2015: Recalled to prison
2017: Convicted for contempt of court
2018: Jailed for contempt of court*


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 9, 2019)

Didn’t he do a photo-shoot on some Israeli tank? Maybe Mossad could disappear him out of the country in the boot of a diplomatic limousine.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 9, 2019)

he did, there is a picture of him on a tank with a little gun and a serious beer gut. must be short of coke in Israel.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 9, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> You are right in that contempt can be both but wrong that in this case it's criminal. There's a useful thread on it here



If there is a bounty I will change my holiday plans.


----------



## andysays (Jul 9, 2019)

Tommy Robinson encouraged 'vigilante action' in Facebook Live


> Ex-English Defence League leader Tommy Robinson encouraged "vigilante action" against defendants when he filmed them in a Facebook Live, judges have said. Robinson was found in contempt of court last week over the broadcast, which he made in breach of a reporting ban, outside Leeds Crown Court in May 2018. Explaining the decision, judge Dame Victoria Sharp said the video could have "seriously impeded" justice over a sexual grooming gang's trial. His sentencing is expected on Thursday.


----------



## belboid (Jul 9, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> You are right in that contempt can be both but wrong that in this case it's criminal. There's a useful thread on it here



The Secret Barrister disagrees - The Tommy Robinson judgment – what does it all mean?

Bail was lifted when his conviction was referred up.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 9, 2019)

belboid said:


> The Secret Barrister disagrees - The Tommy Robinson judgment – what does it all mean?
> 
> Bail was lifted when his conviction was referred up.


That's from 2018, I googled before and found same stuff before clocking the date


----------



## belboid (Jul 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> That's from 2018, I googled before and found same stuff before clocking the date


Has the law changed? If it was true then, I don't see why it would be different.


----------



## donkyboy (Jul 9, 2019)

How the fuck is this guy allowed to travel abroad with so many convictions? I thought his travels would be affected by his criminal activities?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 9, 2019)

donkyboy said:


> How the fuck is this guy allowed to travel abroad with so many convictions? I thought his travels would be affected by his criminal activities?



Mostly either old and expired for violence, plus white-collar and civil, maybe?


----------



## M Testa (Jul 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Mostly either old and expired for violence, plus white-collar and civil, maybe?


maybe not. 
*2005: Jailed for 12 months for assault
2010: Arrested for public order offence
2011: Convicted for football hooliganism
2011: Jailed for breaching bail conditions
2011: Convicted for assault
2011: Jailed for rooftop protest in Switzerland
2013 Jailed for using false passport
2014: Jailed for mortgage fraud
2014: Convicted for public order offences
2015: Recalled to prison
2017: Convicted for contempt of court
2018: Jailed for contempt of court*


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 9, 2019)

What was the Swiss business pertaining to? One of their alpine Mosques?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What was the Swiss business pertaining to? One of their alpine Mosques?


EDL members fined over rooftop protest


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What was the Swiss business regarding to? One of their alpine Mosques?


He went Emmental cos FIFA wouldn't allow poppies on England players' shirts


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 9, 2019)

Cheers.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 9, 2019)

donkyboy said:


> How the fuck is this guy allowed to travel abroad with so many convictions? I thought his travels would be affected by his criminal activities?


I don't reckon it's likely that there are no travel conditions on him. But even otherwise, there are probably no countries he would be interested in going to that wouldn't be guaranteed to send him back, with the exception of the US, where he won't be allowed in.


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 9, 2019)

Isn't it the case that passports don't tell immigration at the country of entry the nature or number of offences  rather that the holder has a record? Obviously if there's a hold or order on that person, then that's different.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 9, 2019)

He previously tried to get into the US on a false passport, so that is going to pop up on someone's screen if he tries to get in using his own.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 9, 2019)

Raheem said:


> He previously tried to get into the US on a false passport, so that is going to pop up on someone's screen if he tries to get in using his own.



Wasnt it under the name Paul Harris or something?
I expect his other name manoeuvres aren't going to inspire confidence.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 9, 2019)

just watched his desperate, heartfelt plea for Donald Trump and Alex Jones to save his arse. 

Its .... just wow. Hilarious. Hes having a proper meltdown.

Somebody needs to do a "muslamic ray guns" stylee remix of it.


----------



## A380 (Jul 10, 2019)

Got to be careful as the master race is going to kick off.


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 10, 2019)

A380 said:


> Got to be careful as the master race is going to kick off.
> 
> View attachment 176899



Looks like he knows a lot about the Roundheads...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 10, 2019)

A380 said:


> Got to be careful as the master race is going to kick off.
> 
> View attachment 176899



2 dozen pissed up fat fucks chanting "hey tommy tommy" whilst being corralled by bored cops in a carpark in stoke = The Battle of Naseby.


----------



## Fez909 (Jul 10, 2019)




----------



## andysays (Jul 10, 2019)

Yossarian said:


> Looks like he knows a lot about the Roundheads...


I don't think you should be so cavalier about the prospect of imminent civil war


----------



## fishfinger (Jul 10, 2019)

Fez909 said:


>


That is fabulous


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 10, 2019)

A380 said:


> Got to be careful as the master race is going to kick off.
> 
> View attachment 176899



For you, Tommy, the war is over


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 10, 2019)

fishfinger said:


> That is fabulous



It's a gift that keeps on giving - I just noticed the crescent moon over Tower Bridge.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

It’s really good - wonder who did it...


----------



## fishfinger (Jul 10, 2019)

Yossarian said:


> It's a gift that keeps on giving - I just noticed the crescent moon over Tower Bridge.


All the tropes


----------



## M Testa (Jul 10, 2019)

why doesnt he go to syria and fight islamic extremists there?


----------



## fishfinger (Jul 10, 2019)

8ball said:


> It’s really good - wonder who did it...


The artists name and a doll in the girl's hand, have been cropped off the bottom of that image.


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 10, 2019)

fishfinger said:


> The artists name and a doll in the girl's hand, have been cropped off the bottom of that image.
> 
> View attachment 176921



Is that a Jayda Fransen doll?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 10, 2019)

cant quite make it out, but i think the signature at the bottom says "stephen patrick morrisey"


----------



## Raheem (Jul 10, 2019)

Nah, it says 'Copyright 2019 Campaign to Bring Back Hanging'.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 10, 2019)

Yossarian said:


> Is that a Jayda Fransen doll?




Called Muhammad Sudanese teddy bear blasphemy case - Wikipedia


----------



## Gromit (Jul 10, 2019)

Where's the halo?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 10, 2019)

hang on - some years ago didn't SYL rekon someone  had fired bullets at his house? 
His drug induced, raving paranoir seems to go back some time.


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 10, 2019)

M Testa said:


> maybe not.
> *2005: Jailed for 12 months for assault
> 2010: Arrested for public order offence
> 2011: Convicted for football hooliganism
> ...



This is the thing, the guy is no stranger to prison.  He knows what its all about and he knew what he was doing would likely end him back inside.  Its just how he earns a living and all the theatre since has been to ensure the money keeps rolling in.

Its all just a game, the real mugs are the ones who bankroll him, what are they actually getting for their money?


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jul 10, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> This is the thing, the guy is no stranger to prison.  He knows what its all about and he knew what he was doing would likely end him back inside.  Its just how he earns a living and all the theatre since has been to ensure the money keeps rolling in.
> 
> Its all just a game, the real mugs are the ones who bankroll him, what are they actually getting for their money?



Russia is getting exactly what it paid for. And then some.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 10, 2019)

Dillinger4 said:


> Russia is getting exactly what it paid for. And then some.


Please elucidate?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Dillinger4 said:


> Russia is getting exactly what it paid for. And then some.


and not a dose of novichok in sight


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 10, 2019)

Dillinger4 said:


> Russia is getting exactly what it paid for. And then some.



Vlad's not going to waste his money on this chump.  Its just paranoid nobbers who think there is some sort of race war coming.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> This is the thing, the guy is no stranger to prison.  He knows what its all about and he knew what he was doing would likely end him back inside.  Its just how he earns a living and all the theatre since has been to ensure the money keeps rolling in.
> 
> Its all just a game, the real mugs are the ones who bankroll him, what are they actually getting for their money?


i'm sure there are begging emails going about, like the ones the bnp used to bombard people with, making out there were legal things which might be done but which would require vast amounts of money to secure


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 10, 2019)

Yeah it is all theatre. Is he really bricking it, doubt it


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Yeah it is all theatre. Is he really bricking it, doubt it


don't care, it looks weak as fuck calling for political asylum - it's the sort of thing i would be surprised his stalwart supporters er support


----------



## TopCat (Jul 10, 2019)

Well we will see if Trump forces dramatically extract him from the dock tomorrow.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Yeah it is all theatre. Is he really bricking it, doubt it



I don't know the mentality of his supporters well enough to know whether the "bricking it" stance is better than the "brave freedom fighter" stance.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 10, 2019)

What court and what time?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> don't care, it looks weak as fuck calling for political asylum - it's the sort of thing i would be surprised his stalwart supporters er support



It's certainly gave everyone _outside_ his sphere of influence a good giggle.  No idea what it's like on the inside...


----------



## TopCat (Jul 10, 2019)

8ball said:


> I don't know the mentality of his supporters well enough to know whether the "bricking it" stance is better than the "brave freedom fighter" stance.


Could someone do a suitable montage of said faces please?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

8ball said:


> It's certainly gave everyone _outside_ his sphere of influence a good giggle.  No idea what it's like on the inside...


sure tommeh will tell us


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jul 10, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Vlad's not going to waste his money on this chump.  Its just paranoid nobbers who think there is some sort of race war coming.



I think it would be interesting to have a forensic look at exactly where his funds are coming from. The majority are online donations, with a part coming from 'russian trolls'.



> A second analysis, by the Alliance for Securing Democracy (ASD) thinktank, discovered social media backing from a cluster of 600 accounts it identified as being aligned with the Kremlin. Pro-Robinson tweets accounted for three of their top five most-used hashtags on 27 May, and most pointed users to articles on the rightwing websites InfoWars, Breitbart and Voice of Europe, according to the researchers.
> 
> “The clustered focus on the Tommy Robinson case in late May suggests that Russian-linked accounts saw his arrest as a clear opportunity to amplify political divisions both in the UK and abroad,” said Bret Schafer, a social media analyst at the US-based ASD.



Revealed: the hidden global network behind Tommy Robinson


----------



## TopCat (Jul 10, 2019)

Dillinger4 said:


> I think it would be interesting to have a forensic look at exactly where his funds are coming from. The majority are online donations, with a part coming from 'russian trolls'.
> 
> Revealed: the hidden global network behind Tommy Robinson




The alliance for securing democracy. Great name that


----------



## M Testa (Jul 10, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> hang on - some years ago didn't SYL rekon someone  had fired bullets at his house?His drug induced, raving paranoir seems to go back some time.



this was a time (early 2010s?) when he tried to capitalise on his 'notoriety' and, as so many far right wankspasms do, play the victim. i think he went to The Sun with 1 made-up story before going to the cops - which immediately got folks' attention - and then that fucken dull human-soggy-biscuit Kuzin Kev Karol claimed he'd been shot at when of course nothing of the kind had happened. there were other attacks on 'sir tommy for PM' by 'muslamics' 1 which turned out to be a proper hoofing off the Luton soccer team fans Men On Gear for claiming to be a big figure in their firm.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 10, 2019)

Dillinger4 said:


> I think it would be interesting to have a forensic look at exactly where his funds are coming from. The majority are online donations, with a part coming from 'russian trolls'.
> Revealed: the hidden global network behind Tommy Robinson



see #2469


----------



## InfoBurner (Jul 10, 2019)




----------



## The39thStep (Jul 10, 2019)

TopCat said:


> What court and what time?


Tomorrow I think so any where from 10.00 am onwards .


----------



## TopCat (Jul 10, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Tomorrow I think so any where from 10.00 am onwards .


It amused me watching his supporters bounce and grab at barriers when he was convicted. City police will prob deploy a few more. Watch from afar and laugh some more.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 10, 2019)

can someone get that '3 lies of tommy robinson' on twitter? that is superb.


----------



## mx wcfc (Jul 10, 2019)

has this been posted yet?  If so, apologies.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 10, 2019)

I think he is genuinely bricking it. Drug induced paranoia. The babbling incoherence of his plea for asylum certainly suggests that.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 10, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Tomorrow I think so any where from 10.00 am onwards .


Wow, time was we'd all go s down the market square and watch the liege lord hang a peasant for killing a swan. Now we get to watch a disturbed coke addict fascist walter mitty get sent down for contempt of court.

Tis the future , I tell thee


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

mx wcfc said:


> has this been posted yet?  If so, apologies.




I love that. 

Watching the vid, I enjoyed imagining those were responses from his Mum.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 11, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Vlad's not going to waste his money on this chump.  Its just paranoid nobbers who think there is some sort of race war coming.



Probably. There does seem to be a lot of them, though (outside of urban). Mustn't be complacent, all the same.


----------



## agricola (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> don't care, it looks weak as fuck calling for political asylum - it's the sort of thing i would be surprised his stalwart supporters er support



TBH they've been suggesting some sort of nationalist escape pod (to the US) for ages; Hopkins mentions it prominently in her film and that is after all where almost all of their money comes from.  Given who is in charge over there and the looming election (as well as the likely reaction were their favoured candidate to lose, either this month or at the coming General Election) I would not be at all surprised if they gave SYL asylum.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

agricola said:


> TBH they've been suggesting some sort of nationalist escape pod (to the US) for ages; Hopkins mentions it prominently in her film and that is after all where almost all of their money comes from.  Given who is in charge over there and the looming election (as well as the likely reaction were their favoured candidate to lose, either this month or at the coming General Election) I would not be at all surprised if they gave SYL asylum.


He'll be in nine elms for nine years


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> It amused me watching his supporters bounce and grab at barriers when he was convicted. City police will prob deploy a few more. Watch from afar and laugh some more.


I can picture it now as the fawning robinsonites demand to be allowed to serve the sentence on the great man's behalf


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

agricola said:


> TBH they've been suggesting some sort of nationalist escape pod (to the US) for ages; Hopkins mentions it prominently in her film and that is after all where almost all of their money comes from.  Given who is in charge over there and the looming election (as well as the likely reaction were their favoured candidate to lose, either this month or at the coming General Election) I would not be at all surprised if they gave SYL asylum.


I just can't see the US doing it. They have deported him before for lying over his immigration status.


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 11, 2019)

Wouldn't surprise me if Trump did decide to step in - he retweeted a Katie Hopkins post on a different subject just a few hours ago and would probably relish a chance to make the UK look bad.

I thought Katie Hopkins was one of the 47 people Trump follows on Twitter, but it looks like the only British person the most powerful man in the world pays that much attention to is Piers Morgan.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 11, 2019)

Yossarian said:


> Wouldn't surprise me if Trump did decide to step in - he retweeted a Katie Hopkins post on a different subject just a few hours ago and would probably relish a chance to make the UK look bad.
> 
> I thought Katie Hopkins was one of the 47 people Trump follows on Twitter, but it looks like the only British person the most powerful man in the world pays that much attention to is Piers Morgan.



I wouldn't be surprised if he tweeted about it. Him remembering it five minutes later seems less likely though, and as for actually bothering to do anything about it...


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

I just can't see Trump telling the Border Force to let him in. Even more so if he left the UK via a car boot or some such.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 11, 2019)

Maybe Trump will order the safe passage of Tommy Robinson, which likely isn’t the name on Lennon’s passport.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

RUPTLY are doing a live feed from outside the court. On now.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

City Police got the Tommeh supporters a bit further back today.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

I can hear a certain photographer chatting away.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

Attorney General -v- Stephen Yaxley-Lennon (reasons for judgment of 5 July 2019)


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> I can hear a certain photographer chatting away.


I let him know


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Is Tommeh inside already?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Is Tommeh inside already?


he arrived 20 minutes ago


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

'he accepts the "custodial threshold has been passed"


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 11, 2019)

Has the judge (magistrate?) got the black cap on yet?


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

the tombliboos have caught met-plod out a couple of times of late. if, or rather when, 'sir tommy' goes to the majesties priz they will kick off.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

AG is asking for £25k in costs from TR.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

'Judges have now retired to consider the mitigation.'


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## Ranbay (Jul 11, 2019)

Lifted from twatter


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

i'm thinking it'll be two years minus time served plus costs


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

M Testa said:


> the tombliboos have caught met-plod out a couple of times of late. if, or rather when, 'sir tommy' goes to the majesties priz they will kick off.


Hope so.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

Ranbay said:


> View attachment 177033 View attachment 177032


get it up on twitter!


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm thinking it'll be two years minus time served plus costs





Hoping for a little more than that.  And I want to see that crowd get clobbered by the police on the live feed.
I bought popcorn.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

"Crowd" is a bit of an overstatement, isn't it.
Poor Tommy.


----------



## not a trot (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> RUPTLY are doing a live feed from outside the court. On now.




You sure that's not Wimbledon.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

What mitigation anyway?


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

not a trot said:


> You sure that's not Wimbledon.


More exciting than Wimbledon and more grunting...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> What mitigation anyway?





> Richard Furlong, for Robinson, suggests his client should not have to pay costs if he is jailed.
> 
> In mitigation, Mr Furlong asked the court to consider any "actual harm caused" by Robinson's actions.
> 
> ...



Judges in Tommy Robinson case rise to consider sentence - follow live updates


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

The TR battle bus is in position. Rumour has it all the weapons are on the top deck.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

I bet ten months


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Live feed has gone


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

If getting footage of Assange was a high for RUPTLY then this loss is a new low.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Now speeches.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Bored


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Anyone got any Tommeh jokes?


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Where's the Navy Seals?


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

'so, are the seals are ready to fight for truth, freedom of speech and tommy robinson?'


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

'okay seals, raise a flipper if you dont give a fuck about 'Sir Tommy'


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

not sure the navy seals will extract tommeh, it's not what they normally do when they're told to take someone out


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> not sure the navy seals will extract tommeh, it's not what they normally do when they're told to take someone out



reminds me of 'Mr Jolly lives next door' and taking Nicholas Parsons out...


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2019)

Sky News helicopter hovering over court at mo so I guess they think it's about to kick off


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

peterkro said:


> Sky News helicopter hovering over court at mo so I guess they think it's about to kick off


i do hope so, it's like the hunt scum and the cops outside parliament years back, a win-win situation


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2019)

some good t shirt based jokes to fill in my time waiting to hear how long SYL will spend at 'er maj's pleasure:


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

> Robinson's supporters are tweeting a "message from Tommy" calling for his supporters to protest outside prison on Saturday.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> some good t shirt based jokes to fill in my time waiting to hear how long SYL will spend at 'er maj's pleasure:


Probably someone else's.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i do hope so, it's like the hunt scum and the cops outside parliament years back, a win-win situation


Or the police screws fight at Wandsworth


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

so whilst we're all waiting, what do we think of Marx's Critique of the Gotha Programme?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

M Testa said:


> so whilst we're all waiting, what do we think of Marx's Critique of the Gotha Programme?


go on start us off


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

Marx laid out a very specific outline of what an actual 'Gotha' or in English, 'Goth' should wear whilst hanging round the barricades at midnight ...


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

M Testa said:


> Marx laid out a very specific outline of what an actual 'Gotha' or in English, 'Goth' should wear whilst hanging round the barricades at midnight ...


Do you work this look?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

judges back in


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 177048



Pfft!


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

6 months?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

M Testa said:


> 6 months?


plus the suspended sentence


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Total penalty is committal to prison for nine months.


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2019)

Nine months.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

9 months? I think he got off quite lightly, there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

nine months


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

existentialist said:


> 9 months? I think he got off quite lightly, there.


let's see how he feels after nine days inside


----------



## klang (Jul 11, 2019)

still


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Now, I guess, the "fun" starts - how's his mob going to take it?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

138 days


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Penalty reduced by 138 days to reflect time already served.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> let's see how he feels after nine days inside


I am not sure how many fucks I give about how he feels


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Now, I guess, the "fun" starts - how's his mob going to take it?


badly


----------



## klang (Jul 11, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Now, I guess, the "fun" starts - how's his mob going to take it?


----------



## belboid (Jul 11, 2019)

-time served, which is almost half of it already.

If six months is 'the least appropriate penalty' why didn't she give him more?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Penalty reduced by 138 days to reflect time already served.


Oh. So he gets to walk out of court? 

That could make things even more interesting - he's going to interpret that as licence to gloat and offend...


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

last comment. off to laundrete to celebrate:


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Robinson stands up in court. "You will be committed in prison for a period of 19 weeks". Will serve up to one half of that period.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

belboid said:


> -time served, which is almost half of it already.
> 
> If six months is 'the least appropriate penalty' why didn't she give him more?


surprisingly light


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> surprisingly light


Perhaps she's handing him a shovel. It's pretty obvious he's just going to go and do the same thing again, given half a chance.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Now, I guess, the "fun" starts - how's his mob going to take it?


It took ages to ripple through the crowd at court. Lots of fingers adding up and people asking each other


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

Hang on - this was meant to be a "civil war kicking off" - not a "mutter and go home".


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 11, 2019)

Tommy Robinson's supporters erupt as he is jailed for contempt of court - follow live updates


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

They are just working themselves into a pre row froth now. No face coverings.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> They are just working themselves into a pre row froth now. No face coverings.


very good of them to make the cops' job so easy


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Off it goes


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2019)

Looks like they are about to get battered,shame.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Off it goes


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Is there a live feed of what's happening outside court?


----------



## JimW (Jul 11, 2019)

So we're due a pregnant pause from Tommy?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Is there a live feed of what's happening outside court?



Found it again...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Found it again...



see the cops are wombled up


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 11, 2019)

not much of civil war. not a musket in sight.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 11, 2019)

That's a soft sentence. Hoping not to anger the mob too much. They'll be angry but not as angry as if he'd gotten 2 years.
The mob have actually scored a victory there 

I'm doubly amazed as the man appearing for sentencing of contempt wears t-shirt displaying contempt of the decision to find guilty of contempt.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 11, 2019)

Shit re-enactment of beer hall putsch in Smithfield this lunchtime I think


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

Gromit said:


> That's a soft sentence. Hoping not to anger the mob too much. They'll be angry but not as angry as if he'd gotten 2 years.
> The mob have actually scored a victory there
> 
> I'm doubly amazed as the man appearing for sentencing of contempt wears t-shirt displaying contempt of the decision to find guilty of contempt.


he wasn't displaying the message in court, either changed or turned t-shirt inside out


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Is there a live feed of what's happening outside court?


Yeah.


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 11, 2019)

Statement of means requested by the judges before deciding on costs.

Interesting if made public.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

gilets jaune out i see


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

It's petered out.  Not enough beer in them.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

19force8 said:


> Statement of means requested by the judges before deciding on costs.
> 
> Interesting if made public.



I hope he has to pay the £25k requested by the AG.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

19force8 said:


> Statement of means requested by the judges before deciding on costs.
> 
> Interesting if made public.


if they find all the yankee money he'll get lumbered with costs


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> It's petered out.  Not enough beer in them.


not so sure - wait a little


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 11, 2019)

how many tommy botherers are there? 200?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> It's petered out.  Not enough beer in them.


i reckon it may be on as they go walkabout


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> not so sure - wait a little


 Ok .There must be a lot on their way from the nearest Spoons with luck.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> how many tommy botherers are there? 200?


More


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Ok .There must be a lot on their way from the nearest Spoons with luck.


yeh there's several wetherspoons in the area so i wouldn't be surprised if there were some in liverpool street, maybe down at whitehall and around holborn - penderel's oak for example


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

They have stopped by their bus at the end of the street, so there could still be trouble, if the speakers wind them up enough.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

speechifying


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> They have stopped by their bus at the end of the street, so there could still be trouble, if the speakers wind them up enough.


i reckon there'll be trouble if the speakers try to calm them down


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2019)

Back to the civil versus criminal aspect 


> Passing sentence, Dame Victoria Sharp said: "We are in no doubt that the custody threshold is crossed in this case, in particular having regard to the common law contempt that the respondent committed.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Looks like RUPTLY has followed them on walkabout...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Danny Tommo tells the clowns to march on parliament, and off they go. 

Meanwhile you could just hear someone saying they spotted police in full riot gear down a side street.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Danny Tommo tells the clowns to march on parliament, and off they go.
> 
> Meanwhile you could just hear someone saying they spotted police in full riot gear down a side street.


That's a fairly long trek for some of those fat old bastards. What with all the singing. They'll need a nice sit-down when they get there...


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Do the City coppers get to claim "hot pursuit"?


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Here they come, grimly faced.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

The fuckwits are chanting, 'we want Tommy out'.

They are going to be very disappointed.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Do the City coppers get to claim "hot pursuit"?


Yeah they can go into the met and all surrounding counties


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Danny Tommo tells the clowns to march on parliament, and off they go.
> 
> Meanwhile you could just hear someone saying they spotted police in full riot gear down a side street.


Danny has had a few set backs recently. The DFLA took his phone of him and gave him a slap, Tracey Blackwell was filmed saying he was on the make and a liar, so he needs to step up his game as SYLs lieutenant.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

They'll need a solid afternoon of drinking before getting anything together.
Wetherspoons share price currently rising...


----------



## klang (Jul 11, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> The DFLA took his phone of him


but now he has a megaphone instead


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

So was it a 'sent off in the van' thing, or does Tommeh have time to buy a lilo and paddle to the States?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Hmm, why the RCJ? An early appeal?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

8ball said:


> So was it a 'sent off in the van' thing, or does Tommeh have time to buy a lilo and paddle to the States?


He was escorted down to the cells with his prison bag and his cuddly Ted. I imagine it's straight off to jug.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 11, 2019)

It’s not often I want to see riot police kicking heads in, but today is definitely one of those days.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

They've got another mile and a half to go...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It’s not often I want to see riot police kicking heads in, but today is definitely one of those days.



You're not the only one.


----------



## GarveyLives (Jul 11, 2019)

GarveyLives said:


> As at the end of March 2018, just over a quarter of the UK prison population (_26%_) was from a _non-white ethnic group_; _Muslim_ prisoners accounted for _15%_ of the prison population (Source: House of Commons Library Briefing Paper Number CBP-04334, 23 July 2018, "UK Prison Population Statistics"). (Figures not split by gender).
> 
> Is is dificult to see how any / many of these inmates will regard Mr *Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon* as a "hero" to _them_.





> _"After deduction for time served, the sentence will amount to 19 weeks *of which he will only serve half before being released* ..."_



Tommy Robinson given nine-month jail term for contempt of court


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Got a bit pushy and shovy outside the RCJ...for a minute there...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Got a bit pushy and shovy outside the RCJ...for a minute there...



Yeah, it almost kicked-off.

Meanwhile Danny Boy is leading them, and has just asked if anyone knows where they are going.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yeah, it almost kicked-off.
> 
> Meanwhile Danny Boy is leading them, and has just asked if anyone knows where they are going.


It would be funny if they got lost...


----------



## klang (Jul 11, 2019)

existentialist said:


> It would be funny if they got lost...


they got lost a long time ago.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Trafalgar Square is going to be interesting - I presume they haven't got planned road closures in?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Do the City coppers get to claim "hot pursuit"?


google 'operation benbow'


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

existentialist said:


> He was escorted down to the cells with his prison bag and his cuddly Ted. I imagine it's straight off to jug.



I'd hoped for some more funny asylum-seeking antics.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Just marching pass a McDonalds, I heard someone shout out, 'anyone fancy a milk-shake?' 

* I assume it was a member of the public, and not one of their own.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

some lunatic signs


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Aren't there quite strict rules about unauthorised demonstrations within a short distance of Parliament?

I imagine there's going to be quite a lot of riot police waiting for them...?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Aren't there quite strict rules about unauthorised demonstrations within a short distance of Parliament?
> 
> I imagine there's going to be quite a lot of riot police waiting for them...?


sure there will be


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

but they're turning off


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Are the riot police with the white hats the "good cops"?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

cops o/s mod


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 11, 2019)

Worthy of a BBC breaking news alert? I suppose that’s quite charitable of them to give him a bit more oxygen now he’s been kicked off all the other platforms. Fucksake.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 11, 2019)

So did he get a 9 month sentence, half custodial half licence with 138 days off so straight out on licence or is it 9 months locked up minus 138 days (so 4 months to serve)?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> but they're turning off
> 
> View attachment 177066


Where are they going, then? 

Oh...they're on Embankment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

along the embankment toward the elizabeth tower


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 11, 2019)

Ah wait there, BBC news saying he has ten weeks to serve


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

So a little over 2 months after all that fucking about.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 11, 2019)

Alot can happen in 2 months inside


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2019)

They blocking Westminister bridge, convoy of riot police just went westwards along embankment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Ah wait there, BBC news saying he has ten weeks to serve


they're treating some people with contempt with a sentence like that


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

tr's supporters must be pleased that they can get to use their 'set him free' flags loads of times as he keeps getting sent down


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

i think i've seen him somewhere before...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

They are on the move again.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

they usually substitute 'using a plan ' with 'getting pissed 1st' but they are doing neither. a dry demo?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

M Testa said:


> they usually substitute 'using a plan ' with 'getting pissed 1st' but they are doing neither. a dry demo?



Nope, the lager cans are out, I've a spotted a few drinking.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Cops have just arrested one, and pushing back others.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Cops have just arrested one, and pushing back others.


----------



## klang (Jul 11, 2019)

2


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

At least a couple more have now been chuffed & lead away.


----------



## klang (Jul 11, 2019)

i like the hip hop cop with his cap back to front.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

level two public order trained local cops, not tsg


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

littleseb said:


> i like the hip hop cop with his cap back to front.


cw1980, sure we'll see him again


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

again, not tsg


----------



## krink (Jul 11, 2019)

Ranbay said:


> View attachment 177065



stolen this to reap the likes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## krink (Jul 11, 2019)

who was it they just attacked?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

cops getting themselves penned


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 11, 2019)

Maybe the TSG are following in the footsteps of their CRS chums in ‘68 -sitting in baking hot locked riot vans and being force fed cheeky vin de table by their superiors until it is time to release them for action.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

krink said:


> who was it they just attacked?



I think it was a remain protester, but it moved very quickly, the cops seemed to appeared from nowhere.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Loads of police vans in view now.


----------



## peterkro (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I think it was a remain protester, but it moved very quickly, the cops seemed to appeared from nowhere.


That was my take on it he appeared to have been roughed up considerably.But as you say hard to be sure.


----------



## klang (Jul 11, 2019)

is there a way to fast forward a live feed to get to the beatings quicker?


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

the trashed the remainer stand and nicked the flags. they look a bit aimless now.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Where are they heading now? 

Do they even know?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Where are they heading now?
> 
> Do they even know?


buckingham palace?

more like victoria


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

man down! nicked.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

fit on the scene


----------



## klang (Jul 11, 2019)

what is it with those chinese flags?


----------



## klang (Jul 11, 2019)

CDL?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

they're not happy now


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

littleseb said:


> what is it with those chinese flags?


xinjiang i think


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

the cops are getting themselves into all sorts of a mess


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Cops have started to push people around again.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

bacon faced head boiler gonna be  on telly later getting nicked.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

cop on rhs putting on gloves, the off can't be far away


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

trying to reverse a van through the crowd, that'll go well


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

it looks like the RUPTLY live feed has replaced jeremy kyle for afternoon idiocy.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> the cops are getting themselves into all sorts of a mess



Yep, they appear to have been kettled around their van.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Yep, they appear to have been kettled around their van.


it's wicked to mock the afflicted


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 11, 2019)

I'll watch the footage of the aftermath later, speeded up x2 and set to the benny hill yakkety sax tune


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2019)

They trashed some Remainer stall  but the bit that I saw was a couple or three  attacking some camera crew and journalists swining a stand around.Any one else see it?


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 11, 2019)

littleseb said:


> is there a way to fast forward a live feed to get to the beatings quicker?


Its in the DVD extras


----------



## M Testa (Jul 11, 2019)

yeah its on twitter somewhere.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 11, 2019)

"preparations for the next step" - ?

and this will be - what?
getting the armed forces on side and launching a coup?
or off down the pub to eat pork scratchings in courageous defiance of sharia law?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

Are they playing pass the parcel with a megaphone or something?


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

M Testa said:


> it looks like the RUPTLY live feed has replaced jeremy kyle for afternoon idiocy.


I have been in the garden with home made cider and all around lovlieness watching this farce. Great days comrade.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 177083
> trying to reverse a van through the crowd, that'll go well



REME t-shirt.  How lovely.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

Earnest discussions about "fake news" that could have been sampled from a lefty demo...


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

8ball said:


> Earnest discussions about "fake news" that could have been sampled from a lefty demo...


It looked a bit May day earlier


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 11, 2019)

‘Off to free Tommy Robinson’ replaces ‘dropping kids off at the pool’ as UK’s favourite synonym for taking a dump


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

Nine Bob Note said:


> ‘Off to free Tommy Robinson’ replaces ‘dropping kids off at the pool’ as UK’s favourite synonym for taking a dump


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> It looked a bit May day earlier


a bit shit may day, more the lefty march from clerkenwell than a storming may day of the early 2000s


----------



## klang (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> It looked a bit May day earlier


if that's what it's come to I should have stayed in Berlin.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> They trashed some Remainer stall  but the bit that I saw was a couple or three  attacking some camera crew and journalists swining a stand around.Any one else see it?



Apparently it was a BBC crew, you can see it from this point...



... a couple attacked them, but some of their own moved in to protect them, just before the cops moved in.


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## tim (Jul 11, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> I'll watch the footage of the aftermath later, speeded up x2 and set to the benny hill yakkety sax tune


Thanks
Don't you mean the Yaxley Sax  tune?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Apparently it was a BBC crew, you can see it from this point...
> 
> 
> 
> ... a couple attacked them, but some of their own moved in to protect them, just before the cops moved in.



Full size photo here:


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2019)

I've merged the two threads together but am happy to accept a better title


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

editor said:


> I've merged the two threads together but am happy to accept a better title



Something has gone wrong, loads of posts have gone AWOL, any chance of recovering them?

FM quoted me in this post - Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech' - but my original post has disappeared.

The last post on here - Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech' - was made before noon, but loads were made after that.

ETA - why has this post appeared between posts made around 11.30 am, and not at the end of the thread?


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Something has gone wrong, loads of posts have gone AWOL, any chance of recovering them?
> 
> FM quoted me in this post - Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech' - but my original post has disappeared.
> 
> The post above this one was before noon, but loads were made after that.


I can't think of any way that they could have disappeared as I just merged the two threads - unless some hideous technical error happened. In which case, call for Lazy Llama

Edit: your post that FM quoted is here so I think it's just the links that have gone wobbly. 
Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

editor said:


> I can't think of any way that they could have disappeared as I just merged the two threads - unless some hideous technical error happened. In which case, call for Lazy Llama



See my edit, my post & your reply is appearing between posts made before noon, and not at the end of the thread.

So, yeah, some hideous technical error seems to have happened.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> See my edit, my post & your reply is appearing between posts made before noon, and not at the end of the thread.
> 
> So, yeah, some hideous technical error seems to have happened.


I concur. Sorry.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

editor said:


> I concur. Sorry.



You've broken urban.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


>


Like a big bubble of putrid pus.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 11, 2019)

editor said:


> I can't think of any way that they could have disappeared as I just merged the two threads - unless some hideous technical error happened. In which case, call for Lazy Llama


I've started the thread cache rebuild which should fix this. Give it a while as it rebuild ALL the threads. It's only on 17,000 at the mo, just 340,000 more to go.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 11, 2019)

TopCat said:


> It's petered out.  Not enough beer in them.



 Lightweights. Typical of this generation


----------



## TopCat (Jul 11, 2019)

Well it could have gone better.


----------



## Dandred (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 11, 2019)

Lazy Llama said:


> I've started the thread cache rebuild which should fix this. Give it a while as it rebuild ALL the threads. It's only on 17,000 at the mo, just 340,000 more to go.


Looks like this fixed it.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Lazy Llama said:


> Looks like this fixed it.



Yep, everything seems to be back in order time wise, thank fuck, because it was doing my head in, thinking it was me that had lost the plot. 

Thanks as ever Mr Llama.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 11, 2019)

So basically it seems like they tromped around central London, screaming at and sometimes attacking anyone they didn't like the look of, followed by coppers who did er nothing. _Shocked_ to see the Met acting like this, _shocked_ I say


----------



## 19force8 (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I hope he has to pay the £25k requested by the AG.


From his point of view it might make more sense to just cough up rather than have to account for his wealth and income.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 11, 2019)

Dandred said:


> View attachment 177112



I've said it before, but maybe he wanted them to go free.  Court lets Muslim paedophiles go free... imagine the reaction of Tommyrotters to that.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2019)

If you were a SYL fan boy where would you go from here after today? Police tactics were to draw a fairly comfortable line that was never crossed ie let them let off a bit of steam and then they’ll run out of steam. Riot and civil war aren’t on the cards, neither is asylum in the States. Not sure that this unites the swamp of the far right at all. Probably entrenched them but I think they reached that point of no return  sometime ago. So what’s next?


----------



## MrSki (Jul 11, 2019)

Dandred said:


> View attachment 177112


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 11, 2019)

Lol


----------



## MrSki (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## MrSki (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## MrSki (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 11, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> If you were a SYL fan boy where would you go from here after today? Police tactics were to draw a fairly comfortable line that was never crossed ie let them let off a bit of steam and then they’ll run out of steam. Riot and civil war aren’t on the cards, neither is asylum in the States. Not sure that this unites the swamp of the far right at all. Probably entrenched them but I think they reached that point of no return  sometime ago. So what’s next?



No idea mate but every new incarnation appears to be bigger than the previous one.


----------



## A380 (Jul 12, 2019)

https://southendnewsnetwork.net/new...ng-told-do-that-again-and-youll-go-to-prison/


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 12, 2019)

19force8 said:


> From his point of view it might make more sense to just cough up rather than have to account for his wealth and income.



Nah, someone will bleat about it on his behalf, play the victim, and the ‘donate’ button will come out again. Probably make a tidy profit.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Jul 12, 2019)

Is the cunt's sentence one that is covered by the right to complain about inadequate sentencing?

Ask for a Crown Court sentence to be reviewed


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 12, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> No idea mate but every new incarnation appears to be bigger than the previous one.



does it? he got humiliated  in the euro elections and is not pulling the numbers he was a year ago where he was addressing rallies of thousands.


----------



## Wookey (Jul 12, 2019)

I don't think I've ever been happier to see a man sent down. 

I mean, Rolf Harris runs a close second. But I honestly think this could beat it.


----------



## 1979 (Jul 12, 2019)

Free Tommy.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 12, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> does it? he got humiliated  in the euro elections and is not pulling the numbers he was a year ago where he was addressing rallies of thousands.



I'm talking about the progression through the decline of the EDL through to the rise of the DFLA and the people on the street last year when he was first jailed. They're not insignificant numbers and dwarf the boots that the radical left can put on the street.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 12, 2019)

1979 said:


> Free Tommy.



With every packet of cornflakes


----------



## 1979 (Jul 12, 2019)

krtek a houby said:


> With every packet of cornflakes


More Tommys coming soon. England is not a nation shy of civil war should it come to that.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 12, 2019)

1979 said:


> More Tommys coming soon. England is not a nation shy of civil war should it come to that.



Rise of the broflakes


----------



## belboid (Jul 12, 2019)

1979 said:


> More Tommys coming soon.


another Who reunion show?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 12, 2019)

Tommy's coming... to prison


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 12, 2019)

As good as these memes are, the dissatisfaction that he’s managed to tap into isn't going away with him to prison.


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 12, 2019)

1979 said:


> More Tommys coming soon.



There are more Tommys coming soon - but they'll be outnumbered by the Muhammeds, Olivers, Noahs, Harrys, Leos, Georges, Jacks, Charlies, Freddies, Arthurs, Alfies, Henrys, Oscars, Theos, Archies, Jacobs, Joshuas, Jameses, and even the Ethans.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Jul 12, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Nah, someone will bleat about it on his behalf, play the victim, and the ‘donate’ button will come out again. Probably make a tidy profit.



Enough to keep Tommy in beak for a few months anyway.


----------



## Athos (Jul 12, 2019)

1979 said:


> More Tommys coming soon. England is not a nation shy of civil war should it come to that.


Serious question. Do you think SYL wasn't in contempt of court, or that the sentence was too harsh?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

1979 said:


> More Tommys coming soon. England is not a nation shy of civil war should it come to that.


Civil war? You can't even hold a civil conversation


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

1979 said:


> Free Tommy.


With every pack of weetabix


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

MrSki said:


>


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 12, 2019)

1979 said:


> Free Tommy.



With every milk-shake.


----------



## not a trot (Jul 12, 2019)

He's currently calling himself Englebert Humperdink.


----------



## fishfinger (Jul 12, 2019)

not a trot said:


> He's currently calling himself Englebert Humperdink.


"Release Me", "There Goes My Everything" and "The Last Waltz".


----------



## klang (Jul 12, 2019)

not a trot said:


> He's currently calling himself Englebert Humperdink.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 12, 2019)

1979 said:


> More Tommys coming soon. England is not a nation shy of civil war should it come to that.


When was the last time we flirted with civil war?


----------



## phillm (Jul 12, 2019)

Tommy's Befordshire gaff is up for sale for a cool 900k - nice taste - the boy done well. Nice Range Rover in the drive as well.


The rancour, rhetoric and riches of brand Tommy


Check out this property for sale on Rightmove!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 12, 2019)

1979 said:


> More Tommys coming soon. England is not a nation shy of civil war should it come to that.


Dunno mate, been quite a few centuries, reckon England's lost its bottle pal


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Dunno mate, been quite a few centuries, reckon England's lost its bottle pal


while ENGLAND hasn't had a civil war for a long time, the UK has - lest we forget the conflict in the six counties, or the tan war 1919-21


----------



## 8ball (Jul 12, 2019)

Athos said:


> Serious question. Do you think SYL wasn't in contempt of court, or that the sentence was too harsh?



I think you’ve gone off script there.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 12, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> while ENGLAND hasn't had a civil war for a long time, the UK has - lest we forget the conflict in the six counties, or the tan war 1919-21


Granted although our visitor was quite specific about the country. Even the last attempt at an uprising on this island wasn't it England.


----------



## A380 (Jul 12, 2019)

I think a civet war would be cool to watch.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Granted although our visitor was quite specific about the country. Even the last attempt at an uprising on this island wasn't it England.


the 1817 pentrich rising? hardly on a par with dublin in 1916 or even robert emmet's bold effort in 1803

(also there's the 1820 radical war in scotland, but that never amounted to much)


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

A380 said:


> I think a civet war would be cool to watch.


if you go to the suburbs you can see the privet wars


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 12, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> the 1817 pentrich rising? hardly on a par with dublin in 1916 or even robert emmet's bold effort in 1803
> 
> (also there's the 1820 radical war in scotland, but that never amounted to much)


Newport 1839


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Newport 1839


isn't monmouthshire traditionally in wales?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 12, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> isn't monmouthshire traditionally in wales?


Tbf it always used to be Wales & Monmouthshire but the chartists who shot up the westgate were rustled up from across mid wales and the valleys so yeah


----------



## Athos (Jul 12, 2019)

8ball said:


> I think you’ve gone off script there.



I just find it baffling how little thought had gone into many of these 'Free Tommy' types' ideas.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 12, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> When was the last time we flirted with civil war?



Blur vs Oasis.


----------



## Favelado (Jul 12, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> Blur vs Oasis.



Beans first versus cheese first.


----------



## klang (Jul 12, 2019)

phillm said:


> Tommy's Befordshire gaff is up for sale for a cool 900k - nice taste - the boy done well. Nice Range Rover in the drive as well.
> 
> 
> The rancour, rhetoric and riches of brand Tommy
> ...


nice watch tower in pic 27!

also - i wonder if that's the very guitar (pic 16) that all those beautiful EDL chants were composed on?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 12, 2019)

Athos said:


> I just find it baffling how little thought had gone into many of these 'Free Tommy' types' ideas.



I don't think there are any ideas, just slogans.  Bad slogans.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

8ball said:


> I don't think there are any ideas, just slogans.  Bad slogans.


and windbaggery


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 12, 2019)

Bet some generous donor buys that house for over the asking price as a covert way of funnelling him money, like McDonalds did with the Tory party. 

Maybe we can crowdfund to buy it and turn it into an Islamic cultural centre


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 12, 2019)

Ah well


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 12, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I'm talking about the progression through the decline of the EDL through to the rise of the DFLA and the people on the street last year when he was first jailed. They're not insignificant numbers and dwarf the boots that the radical left can put on the street.



I think you're right about this but as 39steps has said, the cops really are not challenged at all by the pro-Tommy lot and if they overstep the mark they will be nicked. I wouldn't be surprised if the bloke who attacked the journalist outside parliament earlier this week has his collar felt.

My guess is that SYL will use his time in prison to write another book and get people behind another free Tommy campaign but what happens next really depends on external factors like Brexit, the economy and whether or not there is another Islamist terrorist attack or similar outrage in Europe any time soon.

Even if he makes it over to America (and that is unlikely) he will still be the pet "UK correspondent" for Rebel Media et al, so he isn't going away - and neither is his support base.


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 12, 2019)

phillm said:


> Tommy's Befordshire gaff is up for sale for a cool 900k - *nice taste - the boy done well*.



Nice taste?? It looks like a Ken and Barbie dolls house to me. Too many clean lines and a shit load of plasterboard and tiling. That bog of his looks like you'd have to sit sideways on it to have a comfortable shit.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 12, 2019)

I quite like his house. I mean it's been decorated by cunts but a bit of paint and I could live happily there


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 12, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> My guess is that SYL will use his time in prison to write another book.



_My Struggle_ perhaps?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> _My Struggle_ perhaps?


mine camp, about his childhood den


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 12, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> mine camp, about his childhood den



My Snuggle


----------



## fishfinger (Jul 12, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> mine camp, about his childhood den


You mean his super-secret camouflaged bunker?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I quite like his house. I mean it's been decorated by cunts but a bit of paint and I could live happily there


burn it down and start again


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 12, 2019)

The Eagles Lair. Luton.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 12, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> The Eagles Lair. Luton.



 Burnin' and Luton


----------



## phillm (Jul 12, 2019)

No cover though from Muslamic Ray-Guns 

West End Road, Silsoe, Bedfordshire, MK45 4DU – Indigo Residential


----------



## Athos (Jul 12, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> The Eagles Lair. Luton.



Silsoe is not Luton.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 12, 2019)

Athos said:


> Silsoe is not Luton.



oh. Bavaria?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> oh. Bavaria?


Aub r varia the tambourine player for ruddy yurts from 1997-2002


----------



## existentialist (Jul 12, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Aub r varia the tambourine player for ruddy yurts from 1997-2002


_Alleged_ tambourine player


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2019)

existentialist said:


> _Alleged_ tambourine player


Did the yazoo on three albums too


----------



## Athos (Jul 12, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> oh. Bavaria?


Expansionist German Ultravox remix?


----------



## Fez909 (Jul 12, 2019)

phillm said:


> Tommy's Befordshire gaff is up for sale for a cool 900k - nice taste - the boy done well. Nice Range Rover in the drive as well.
> 
> 
> The rancour, rhetoric and riches of brand Tommy
> ...


It's very white inside init? Whodathunk..


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 12, 2019)

Is he in Belmarsh?


----------



## TopCat (Jul 12, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Is he in Belmarsh?


Yeah  in the Huntley suite.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 12, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I think you're right about this but as 39steps has said, the cops really are not challenged at all by the pro-Tommy lot and if they overstep the mark they will be nicked. I wouldn't be surprised if the bloke who attacked the journalist outside parliament earlier this week has his collar felt.
> 
> My guess is that SYL will use his time in prison to write another book and get people behind another free Tommy campaign but what happens next really depends on external factors like Brexit, the economy and whether or not there is another Islamist terrorist attack or similar outrage in Europe any time soon.
> 
> Even if he makes it over to America (and that is unlikely) he will still be the pet "UK correspondent" for Rebel Media et al, so he isn't going away - and neither is his support base.



I agree with this, especially the bit about a terror attack boosting their numbers/activity. Ironically enough Islamists are their best mate. Best recruitment sergeant they’ve got.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 12, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Yeah  in the Huntley suite.


Isn't Belmarsh the one that's going to be a bit of a pain to protest outside?


----------



## TopCat (Jul 12, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Isn't Belmarsh the one that's going to be a bit of a pain to protest outside?


Why? Location?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 12, 2019)

It's also where assange is


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 12, 2019)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I think you're right about this but as 39steps has said, the cops really are not challenged at all by the pro-Tommy lot and if they overstep the mark they will be nicked. I wouldn't be surprised if the bloke who attacked the journalist outside parliament earlier this week has his collar felt.
> 
> My guess is that SYL will use his time in prison to write another book and get people behind another free Tommy campaign but what happens next really depends on external factors like Brexit, the economy and whether or not there is another Islamist terrorist attack or similar outrage in Europe any time soon.
> 
> Even if he makes it over to America (and that is unlikely) he will still be the pet "UK correspondent" for Rebel Media et al, so he isn't going away - and neither is his support base.



The numbers for the jailing demo seemed to be  smaller than the trial one and a fairly mixed crowd of ages and sexes. One of the things that always amazes me is the number of women in the fanbase tbh.Theres some nutters and some up for a scrap but most arent tbh. Whatever new support they thought they had found via the NW campaign didnt materialise in votes or on the street. That fanbase is going to stay by and large but I'm not sure aside from terrorist attacks how it can grow. And it just seems like a fanbase rather than a movement, for all his talk about galvinising the working class there is no real political message apart from anti Islam, no local structures , no local issues and no local activity.His days of earning £10k a month from Rebel Media have gone although they could in the future need each other , the finances from his Youtube and Facebook accounts have ended . Hes far from broke but he's got to find another source of income.

However whilst the number of grooming gang trials might diminish and Brexit will take place both issues will still resonate amongst a whole layer and it seems likely that the level of disaffection with the main parties wont go away. 

Thursdays demo showed both some strengths and a lot of weaknesses, strength as in they got larger numbers out than the otherside but weaknesses as in aside from being on the street there was no plan. Despite Danny Tommo spending time in Paris watching the Yellow Vests I'm not sure what he learnt . The January Yellow Vest stuff in the UK peterrred out rapidly , they havent the numbers aside from national callouts and thats limited and  Potential allies are thin on the ground , the DFLA are very small and they dont like Danny Tommo, Britain First are in a mess,, For Britain just chickened out of the Miners Gala. They are fragmented . leaderless and all the talk of civil war is hot air. They could try some stunts ie a picket of the prison,  road convoys or protests outside courts, banners on bridges and graffiti  but thats about it. Its the close season so even trying to get some chants at the odd football ground is off.  It wouldnt surprise me if there was some further harassment of journalists/people on Twitter who have spoken out or a protest outside the BBC or something. 
I think they'll be with us as a rump for some time , unless he fucks off abroad and it wont be the States, but I'm not convinced they are growing or have the capacity to do so at the moment.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 12, 2019)

'it just seems like a fanbase rather than a movement, for all his talk about galvinising the working class there is no real political message apart from anti Islam, no local structures , no local issues and no local activity.'

which has been the case since 2010. they have never been backed by any working class organisation, just various donors. what is his manifesto? get rid of muslims. how? when? in what way? apart from rowdy demos and ego boosting 'speeches' what else can they do? the ukip link hasnt really worked out very well.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 12, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> The numbers for the jailing demo seemed to be  smaller than the trial one and a fairly mixed crowd of ages and sexes. One of the things that always amazes me is the number of women in the fanbase tbh.Theres some nutters and some up for a scrap but most arent tbh. Whatever new support they thought they had found via the NW campaign didnt materialise in votes or on the street. That fanbase is going to stay by and large but I'm not sure aside from terrorist attacks how it can grow. And it just seems like a fanbase rather than a movement, for all his talk about galvinising the working class there is no real political message apart from anti Islam, no local structures , no local issues and no local activity.His days of earning £10k a month from Rebel Media have gone although they could in the future need each other , the finances from his Youtube and Facebook accounts have ended . Hes far from broke but he's got to find another source of income.
> 
> However whilst the number of grooming gang trials might diminish and Brexit will take place both issues will still resonate amongst a whole layer and it seems likely that the level of disaffection with the main parties wont go away.
> 
> ...



They’ve grown. There were thousands of them on the streets last May when he was first jailed (I was there) I’ve simply never seen those numbers anywhere ever. Hedley said they were the most he’d ever seen and he was there ‘back in the day’.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 12, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They’ve grown. There were thousands of them on the streets last May when he was first jailed (I was there) I’ve simply never seen those numbers anywhere ever. Hedley said they were the most he’d ever seen and he was there ‘back in the day’.



EDL got similar numbers at their peak. 
FLA had a few demos with around 10 thousand on them.
Yesterday it was a few hundreds. He lost his deposit in the Euro elections.
Hes going backwards.  
Agree that it may change if there are further islamic terror attacks - but the far right/anti islam stuff looks more spasms of anger that than peter's out because their is no real solid agenda, or specific demand or community base - its justs cunts having a hate. 
And his repeated coked up, angry man, aggro-merchant stuff is not going to appeal beyond a narrow base of twats. 
Farage has  political nouse and is a good communicator. Even Nick Griffin could at least string a sentence together. On recent evidence, mr milkshake would struggle to string his own laces.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 12, 2019)

I'm always uncomfortable when people play it down. I was shocked that the EDL got a thousand or so on the streets of Newcastle following the killing of Lee Rigby.
But that was nothing compared to when Tommy first got jailed last year. At least ten thousand holding a rally in central London pretty much unopposed. It fills me with fear tbh.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 12, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I'm always uncomfortable when people play it down. I was shocked that the EDL got a thousand or so on the streets of Newcastle following the killing of Lee Rigby.
> But that was nothing compared to when Tommy first got jailed last year. At least ten thousand holding a rally in central London pretty much unopposed. It fills me with fear tbh.



I think it is pretty bad, yeah. And it’s no victory for us to say it probably won’t get bigger of its own accord. But that’s where we are.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 12, 2019)

A little disappointed. When I saw the initials SYL I thought it was about Devin Townsends offshoot band.



But apparently not


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 13, 2019)

That sounds dreadful, what the fuck is it?


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 13, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> When was the last time we flirted with civil war?



Bean encroachment on egg: OK/not OK?


----------



## TopCat (Jul 13, 2019)

How's the prison picket going?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 13, 2019)

TopCat said:


> How's the prison picket going?


The picketers are starting to stir and regretting their ill-considered decision to picket a prison on the morning after Friday night when they've got all manner of chores to do


----------



## TopCat (Jul 13, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> The picketers are starting to stir and regretting their ill-considered decision to picket a prison on the morning after Friday night when they've got all manner of chores to do


Long inconvenient journey for many


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 13, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Long inconvenient journey for many


is it Pentonville or Wandsworth?


----------



## TopCat (Jul 13, 2019)

I fear it will be a distillation of the bigger mob seen this week. More the Islamic raygums and Stella than aspiring YouTube stars.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 13, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> is it Pentonville or Wandsworth?


Belmarsh.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 13, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Belmarsh.


The residents of Caledonian Road breathe a sigh of relief


----------



## TopCat (Jul 13, 2019)

RUPTLY are ready.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 13, 2019)

Some has kindly added some musical assistance to Mr Muslamic Raygums to help him get his points across.


----------



## andysays (Jul 13, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> is it Pentonville or Wandsworth?


Neither


----------



## flyingcolumn (Jul 13, 2019)

Fucking hell just clicked on to a live stream of the rally and Robinson's mate has got his hat out getting all the dregs to chip coins and notes in.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2019)

flyingcolumn said:


> Fucking hell just clicked on to a live stream of the rally and Robinson's mate has got his hat out getting all the dregs to chip coins and notes in.



Fucking idiots. 

They clearly haven't heard he's put his house on the market for £900k.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2019)

Oh, they've collected £750*, to send his family on holiday!

* the figure keeps going up a little bit, but it's basically fuck all.

ETA - £870 now.


----------



## flyingcolumn (Jul 13, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, they've collected £750*, to send his family on holiday!
> 
> * the figure keeps going up a little bit, but it's basically fuck all.
> 
> ETA - £870 now.



Proper mugs getting fleeced left, right and centre.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2019)

flyingcolumn said:


> Proper mugs getting fleeced left, right and centre.



More fleeced right, further right and extreme right.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 13, 2019)

The twats think he's a modern day Nelson Mandela!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 13, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> View attachment 177283
> 
> The twats think he's a modern day Nelson Mandela!


21 weeks in captivity*
The twat's too short to see the TV
Scared for his life what an awful thing
He'll end up in the paedo wing

Freeeee Tommy Robinson

*artistic license


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 13, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> 21 weeks in captivity*
> The twat's too short to see the TV
> Scared for his life what an awful thing
> He'll end up in the paedo wing
> ...



excellent work


----------



## brogdale (Jul 13, 2019)

Earworm alert.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 13, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, they've collected £750*, to send his family on holiday!
> 
> * the figure keeps going up a little bit, but it's basically fuck all.
> 
> ETA - £870 now.



we should all chip so he can go on a really long holiday. I hear a one way ticket to ascension island is pretty cheap at the moment. Or a little jaunt to the bottom of the marianas trench can be had for the price of a large block of concrete and some ankle cuffs.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 13, 2019)

What's the tax situation on all the gifts/donations? I know you don't usually pay tax on gifts but at what point does HMRC consider it to be income?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 13, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> View attachment 177283
> 
> The twats think he's a modern day Nelson Mandela!


Or, in their terms, a terrorist


----------



## Serge Forward (Jul 13, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> we should all chip so he can go on a really long holiday. I hear a one way ticket to ascension island is pretty cheap at the moment. Or a little jaunt to the bottom of the marianas trench can be had for the price of a large block of concrete and some ankle cuffs.



I hear North Sentinel Island is nice. Tommeh would live it there


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 13, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> I hear North Sentinel Island is nice. Tommeh would live it there


What's wrong with rockall?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 13, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Or, in their terms, a terrorist


Cue 'Hang Tommeh Robinson' tee-shirts.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 13, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Cue 'Hang Tommeh Robinson' tee-shirts.


Hanging too good for him


----------



## tim (Jul 13, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> What's wrong with rockall?


The Irish or Norwegians might lay claim to him


----------



## tim (Jul 13, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> I hear North Sentinel Island is nice. Tommeh would live it there



He'd prefer Heiling Island


----------



## brogdale (Jul 13, 2019)

tim said:


> He'd prefer Heiling Island


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 13, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, they've collected £750*, to send his family on holiday!



The long walk to Pontins. 

Tommy Rolihlahla Robinislandela's family break at the expense of some proper dorks who wouldn't even be allowed to cut the grass on his sun city residence in the Bedfordshire Transvaal.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 13, 2019)

"it's been 25 minutes they took that man away
moaning about no TV all through night and day
oh oh, Robinson go away"


----------



## flyingcolumn (Jul 14, 2019)

Surely even the hard core Robinson fans will see through this. Claiming the money raised is so Tommy’s kids don’t go hungry


----------



## Humberto (Jul 14, 2019)

boke


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 14, 2019)

flyingcolumn said:


> Surely even the hard core Robinson fans will see through this. Claiming the money raised is so Tommy’s kids don’t go hungry



‘Public*k*’? 

Been moonlighting, Pickman's model?


----------



## Just saying ... (Jul 14, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> burn it down and start again


Get a Dutchman to burn it down?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2019)

Just saying ... said:


> Get a Dutchman to burn it down?


I'm not too concerned about where they're from


----------



## A380 (Jul 14, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> 21 weeks in captivity*
> The twat's too short to see the TV
> Scared for his life what an awful thing
> He'll end up in the paedo wing
> ...


Top work.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> 21 weeks in captivity*
> The twat's too short to see the TV
> Scared for his life what an awful thing
> He'll end up in the paedo wing
> ...


*post of the month*


----------



## Athos (Jul 14, 2019)

With his millennial National Front, 
Came an angry five-foot runt, 
"Free Tommy" they sing,
As he hides on nonce wing,
Crying. The five-named cunt.


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 14, 2019)

flyingcolumn said:


> Surely even the hard core Robinson fans will see through this. Claiming the money raised is so Tommy’s kids don’t go hungry



Always asking for money!


----------



## JimW (Jul 14, 2019)

I went into a burger bar to get a glass o' shake,
The server, well 'e up an' sez, "We serve no bigots on the make."
The girls beside the window laughed an' giggled fit to die,
I outs into the street again an' to myself sez I:
O it's Tommy this, an' Tommy that, an' "Tommy, go away";
But it's "Thank you, Mister Lennon", when the crowdfund starts to pay,
The crowdfund starts to pay, my boys, crowdfund starts to pay,
O it's "Thank you, Mister Lennon", when the crowdfund starts to pay.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 14, 2019)

I want to do a song that's a Christian hym but with Tommy instead of jesus cos they're very similar when you think of it, the Mandela comparison doesn't really do him justice. 

Unfortunately I'm a lazy twat and can't be arsed unless it's on a plate like the Mandela song so I'd like everyone to pretend I did one and it was the funniest song ever on urban.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 14, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> I want to do a song that's a Christian hym but with Tommy instead of jesus cos they're very similar when you think of it, the Mandela comparison doesn't really do him justice.
> 
> Unfortunately I'm a lazy twat and can't be arsed unless it's on a plate like the Mandela song so I'd like everyone to pretend I did one and it was the funniest song ever on urban.



Mate that was fuckin genius a musical highlight for the ages.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jul 14, 2019)

It didn't quite scan though.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 14, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> It didn't quite scan though.


That was deliberate, the bits that sound like they're not scanning are the important bits, it's to make you focus on them. Like when Shakespeare doesn't use the iambic pentameter for a main character. 

Come to think of it I am to Shakespeare what Tommy is to jesus


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2019)

The founder of the edl
Found himself in a prison cell
A screw wan'd'rin in
Stood there sniffin
Shouted change your trousers, get rid of that smell


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 14, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> 21 weeks in captivity*
> The twat's too short to see the TV
> Scared for his life what an awful thing
> He'll end up in the paedo wing
> ...


Pleaded the causes of the EDL
One little man in a small jail cell
His hooter abused 
But the coke is not free
He needs you to send him all your money

Freeeee Tommy Robinson


----------



## A380 (Jul 14, 2019)

Tomeh, Tomeh, Tomeh, Tomeh
I’m begging of you please don’t con my Nan
Tomeh, Tomeh, Tomeh, Tomeh
Please don’t con her  just because you can
Your bullshit is beyond compare
You lie far more than Tony Blair
With milk shakey skin and looks of Mr Bean


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 14, 2019)

A380 said:


> I’m begging of you please don’t con my Nan


Stand by your Nan,
Give her the strength to cling to
The fact that Tom will be locked up 
When nights are cold and lonely

Stand by your Nan
And show the world you love her
By laughing while the Yaxley’s in the can
Stand by your Nan


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 14, 2019)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2019)

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon
Was jailed for contemptuous venom
He feared being killed
So his trousers he filled
And his jeans turned from blue to brown denim


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2019)

There once was a cokehead named stephen
Who claimed he was jailed for no reason
His supporters claimed
That he had been framed
But he left them a vast bill for dry cleanin


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 14, 2019)

Mother do you think that I’ve done wrong?
Mother do you think I’ll serve too long?
Mother will they chin me in the halls?
Ooooooh Mother,
Will I get out of here at all?

Hush now Tommy Tommy don’t you cry
The screws have said they will look after you
Your foes will be on exercise
Whilst you’re cleaning loos

Ooh of course, but I’ll still be a bore


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 14, 2019)

Tommy Robinson 
You ain't happy less you got coke 
Robinson
Going to the beast wing and it ain't no joke

He wants to go to jail for the money
Sniffing loads of coke for his country
Whatever he wants he's gonna get it

Robinson
Goes to alton towers for a day of fun
Robinson
Waiting in the queue till kingdom come
Won't let him on the rides because he's 4 foot 3
Thinks its an Islamic conspiracy
Whatever he wants he's gonna get it


----------



## agricola (Jul 14, 2019)

England record in Cricket World Cups with Yaxley-Lennon out of prison: 0
England record in Cricket World Cups with Yaxley-Lennon in prison: 1


----------



## Raheem (Jul 14, 2019)

agricola said:


> England record in Cricket World Cups with Yaxley-Lennon out of prison: 0
> England record in Cricket World Cups with Yaxley-Lennon in prison: 1


Novak Djokovic has won the men's singles at Wimbledon, too. Such a powerful effect you don't even have to be English for it to work.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 14, 2019)

agricola said:


> England record in Cricket World Cups with Yaxley-Lennon out of prison: 0
> England record in Cricket World Cups with Yaxley-Lennon in prison: 1


So he got himself locked up because he knew it would make England win the world Cup. The greatest English patriot since that bloke who got done for shop lifting in 1966


----------



## agricola (Jul 14, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> So he got himself locked up because he knew it would make England win the world Cup. The greatest English patriot since that bloke who got done for shop lifting in 1966



Pickles?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 14, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> So he got himself locked up because he knew it would make England win the world Cup. The greatest English patriot since that bloke who got done for shop lifting in 1966



He couldn't have done it last year for a World Cup that actually mattered? 

Prick.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2019)

.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 14, 2019)

agricola said:


> England record in Cricket World Cups with Yaxley-Lennon out of prison: 0
> England record in Cricket World Cups with Yaxley-Lennon in prison: 1


Number of times the UK crashed out of the eu while syl not in prison 0...


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 14, 2019)

There is a cell, somewhere in Belmarsh,
Tommy's in Protective Custody,
And in his mind
He believes Donald will come,
To save him, poor refugee.

Inmates banging upon the door,
Piss and shit, in his meals,
Projectiles flying across the halls,
Boiling water in his eyes.
Leaves him

Helpless, Helpless, Helpless.
Donald, can you hear him now?
The chains are locked
And tied across the door,
Donald, save him please somehow.

Inmates banging upon the door,
Piss and shit, in his meals,
Projectiles flying across the halls,
Boiling water in his eyes.
Leaves him

Helpless, Helpless, Helpless.
Donald, can you hear him now?
The chains are locked
And tied across the door,
Donald, save him please somehow.

Actually SpineyNorman I think I've done the actual masterpiece. Pretty proud of this. To the tune of Helpless by Neil Young.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 14, 2019)

Wasn't Neil Young the hippy who thought Charles manson was a musical genius? 

10/10 for effort but it's no Freeeee Tommy Robinson


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 14, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Wasn't Neil Young the hippy who thought Charles manson was a musical genius?
> 
> 10/10 for effort but it's no Freeeee Tommy Robinson



Nah that's Dennis Wilson from the Beach Boys. Honestly listen to the track this is better.


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 14, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Wasn't Neil Young the hippy who thought Charles manson was a musical genius?
> 
> 10/10 for effort but it's no Freeeee Tommy Robinson


NO


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 14, 2019)

I think he was


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 14, 2019)

Neil Young has shit politics but he's great though isn't he


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 14, 2019)

Pistol shots ring out in the Luton night
Enter Victoria Derbyshire from the upper hall
She sees the kebab shop owner in a pool of blood
Cries out, "My God, they're burning poppies!" 

Here comes the story of the Yoghurt Brain
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The Yakult of the world

Three bodies lyin' there does Vicky  see
And another man named Barry Bennell, movin' around mysteriously
"I didn't do it, " he says, and he throws up his hands
"I was only fiddlin with the kids, I hope you understand

I saw them leavin', " he says, and he stops
"One of us had better call up the cops."
And so Vicky calls the cops
And they arrive on the scene with their red lights flashin'
In the hot shitty Luton night


Meanwhile, far away in another part of town
Tommy Robinson and a couple of meatheads are drivin' around
Number one contender for the hooligan crown
Had no idea what kinda kebab was about to go down

When a cop pulled him over to the side of the road
Just like the time before and the time before that
In Luton that's just the way things go
If you're Tommy the racist you might as well not show up on the street
'Less you want to draw the heat


Kevin Carrol had a partner and he had a rap for the cops
Him and Yaxley Milkshake were just out prowlin' around
He said, "I saw two men runnin' out, they looked like cokeheads
They jumped into a white car and shared masturbates"

And Mervyn Jones he just gave Tommy head
Cop said, "Wait a minute, boys, this one's right said Fred"
So they took him to the infirmary
And though this man could hardly see
They told him that he could knuckle shuffle the guilty men


Four in the mornin' and they haul Tommy in
Take him to the hospital and they bring him upstairs
The wounded man looks up through his one dyin' eye
Says, "Wha'd you bring him in here for? He ain't that fly!"

Yes, here's the story of the Yoghurt Brain
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The Yacult of the world


Four months later, Luton's still the same
Tommy's house has been reduced
To get a quick sale
And the cops are puttin' the screws to him, lookin' for somebody to blame
"Remember that murder that happened in a pool"
"Remember you said you and Barrymore were just playing the fools?"
"You think you'd like to play ball with the law?"
"Think it might-a been that swimmer that you saw runnin' that night?"
"Don't forget that you are white."

Yes, here's the story of the Yoghurt Brain
The man the authorities came to blame
For somethin' that he never done
Put in a prison cell, but one time he could-a been
The Yacult of the world

+ nine more verses


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 14, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> I think he was


Fuckin hell Norm that's stretching it more than my Bob Dylan ditty about the Yogurt Brain that is. Do you know the lyrics to Revolution Blues?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 14, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> Fuckin hell Norm that's stretching it more than my Bob Dylan ditty about the Yogurt Brain that is. Do you know the lyrics to Revolution Blues?


It's not the song I'm linking to it's the blurb about it underneath. I know he wasn't a follower but he knew him before the murders and really was impressed with him as a musician. He claims he wasn't the only one but nobody else admits it which I can believe


----------



## A380 (Jul 14, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> He couldn't have done it last year for a World Cup that actually mattered?
> 
> Prick.


The rugby world cup starts this September?


----------



## xenon (Jul 14, 2019)

Fuckoffwithshitpoetry


----------



## A380 (Jul 14, 2019)

In one single moment Tomeh’s  whole life can turn round
He  stands there for a minute, staring straight into the ground
Looking to the far right  slightly, then looking back down
The world feels like it's caved in proper, sorry frown
Please let me show you how it could be if he hadn’t got sent down.


Dry your eyes, Steve
I know it's hard to take but the judge’s mind has been made up
There's plenty more knobs on the web
Dry your eyes, Yax
I know you want to make Donald see how much this pain hurts
But you've got to get banged up now, it's over


----------



## xenon (Jul 14, 2019)




----------



## A380 (Jul 14, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> Pistol shots ring out in the Luton night
> Enter Victoria Derbyshire from the upper hall
> She sees the kebab shop owner in a pool of blood
> Cries out, "My God, they're burning poppies!"
> ...


Best SO FAR


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 15, 2019)

A380 said:


> The rugby world cup starts this September?



Wales are winning that though.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 15, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> Pistol shots ring out in the Luton night
> Enter Victoria Derbyshire from the upper hall
> She sees the kebab shop owner in a pool of blood
> Cries out, "My God, they're burning poppies!"
> ...



Brilliant effort. Fair play.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 15, 2019)

A380 said:


> In one single moment Tomeh’s  whole life can turn round
> He  stands there for a minute, staring straight into the ground
> Looking to the far right  slightly, then looking back down
> The world feels like it's caved in proper, sorry frown
> ...



Love this. Do more verses!


----------



## klang (Jul 15, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> .


_'[...] for only a fool makes a point without leaving a mark.'_
Rashnee Sin Saaq (Beyond the great Unknown 18:6ff)


----------



## Libertad (Jul 15, 2019)

For your delectation and delight, a haiku:

Tommy Robinson
Your name's also on the list
Snivelling cock drip.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 15, 2019)

Tommy

I'M NOT FREE!  I'm not free

And not freedom tastes of captivity

I'm not free-I'm not free

An' I'm waiting for you to unfollow me


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 15, 2019)

_Giant steps aren't what you take, talking like a loon
I hope the law don't break, talking like a loon

Broadcast laws are troubling, talking like a loon
Contempt of court means nothing, talking like a loon_


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 15, 2019)

And fuck you, Tommy Robinson
Racists love you more than you will know 
Wo wo wo
Arrest you, please, Tommy Robinson
Belmarsh holds a place for you you today
Hey hey hey, hey hey hey


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2019)

I met a traveller from an antique land,
Who said—“Two small and trunkless legs of stone
Stand in the desert. . . . Near them, on the dunes,
Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,
And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cokehead goon,
Tell that its sculptor well those passions read
Which yet survive, stamped on this lifeless mug,
The hand that mocked them, and the heart that fed;
And on the pedestal, these words appear:
My name is Tommy R, thug of thugs;
Look on my Works, ye MSM, and despair!
Nothing beside remains. Round the decay
Of that minute Wreck, boundless and bare
The lone and level sands stretch far away.”


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2019)

TopCat ^^


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 15, 2019)

*Vindictus *

It matters not how strait my hate, 
	  How charged with punishments, with no parole, 
I am the master of my fate, 
	  Coz I am a dickhead to my soul.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2019)

Posterity will ne’er survey
a Nobler grave than this:
Here lie the bones of Robinson:
Stop, traveller, and piss!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jul 15, 2019)

Go, tell the English, stranger passing by 
That here, (reluctantly) obedient to their laws, we lie.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 15, 2019)

A lot of anger on the twitters from tommy fans - apparently he has been fitted up by the establishment


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 15, 2019)

Ha ha ha ha ha
Yo, I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want
So tell me what you want, what you really, really want

I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want
So tell me what you want, what you really, really want

I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha)
I wanna really, really, really wanna Sharia free Luton

If you want my future, forget my past
If you wanna get with me, you better not fast

Now don't go wasting my racist time
Get your act together and please pay my fine

I'll tell you what I want, what I really, really want
So tell me what you want, what you really, really want

I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha) I wanna, (ha)
I wanna really, really, really wanna ziga _Sieg Heil_

If you wanna be my lover, you gotta be a facebook friend
(Gotta get with my friends)
Make it last forever, sponsorship never ends
If you wanna be my lover, you have got to give
Taking is too easy, but that's the way Danny is.

You can slap Tommy the Spice Monkey here


----------



## M Testa (Jul 15, 2019)

The Fraud's Prayer.

Our Tommy
Who art in Belmarsh
Hollow be your boasts
Your kingdom sucks
Full of thick fucks who
In Perth or on the Severn
Give you today their daily bread
And forgive you all your cons
As you do milk them.
Lead them into a kettle,
And deliver them from freedom,
For thine is a small cell,
Up on the nonce wing,
For ever and ever.
Conmen.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 15, 2019)

M Testa said:


> The Fraud's Prayer.
> 
> Our Tommy
> Who art in Belmarsh
> ...



Love reax only.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 15, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Love reax only.



eh?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 15, 2019)

M Testa said:


> eh?



Love reactions only. I liked your poem.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 15, 2019)

i must confess to some slight plagiarism but will absorb plaudits anyhoots!


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 15, 2019)

M Testa said:


> i must confess to some slight plagiarism but will absorb plaudits anyhoots!



Slight plagiarism? I'm half inching that to read at a poetry open mic.


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 15, 2019)

Bono gets in touch with the Luton mosque and arranges a charridy gig to enable Tommy to flee his English oppressors and find refuge in the US.

Woah, woah
He's the refugee
I see your face
I see you staring back at me

Woah, woah
He's the refugee
Luton's Iman say one day He's gonna
Live in America

In the morning
He is waiting
Waiting for the slop out wail
Wail away

Woah, woah
The papa go to war
He gonna fight
But he don't know what for

Woah, woah
He is refuge Tommy
Stuck in Belmarsh
Served with a social media dummy

Woah Woah
He's been very silly
Could be an Irish deportee
Someone somewhere say
He'll probably end up in AmeriKKKa


_Edge solo whilst Bono does that crowd thing with a free Tommy flag... "He's ouyrish noy, a brother in that struggle ya'll" Three chords and the truth sort of thing. _








and at least 4 more choruses and a long bass solo from Adam


----------



## SpineyNorman (Jul 15, 2019)

Just when I was thinking nobody is more of a cunt than Tommy up steps Bono


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 15, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Just when I was thinking nobody is more of a cunt than Tommy up steps Bono


It's a match made in Heaven


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 15, 2019)

M Testa said:


> The Fraud's Prayer.
> 
> Our Tommy
> Who art in Belmarsh
> ...



That is mint. Up there with Ian Dury's "bus drivers prayer"


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 16, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Is there a live feed of what's happening outside court?



Is that allowed haha poor poor pour me another drink for timmy


----------



## Irwin Winton (Jul 17, 2019)

Ive got one.... 'Twat' by John Cooper Clarke


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2019)

M Testa said:


> The Fraud's Prayer.
> 
> Our Tommy
> Who art in Belmarsh
> ...


that's the best post you've ever made


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 17, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> that's the best post you've ever made



Do you make a post? It never sounds right to me. 

Surely you post a thing, or you do a post. You don't make a post?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Do you make a post? It never sounds right to me.
> 
> Surely you post a thing, or you do a post. You don't make a post?


contributed
written
made
all much of a muchness, doesn't matter anyway - it's the best post he has on urban


----------



## TopCat (Jul 17, 2019)

Enough of this shit poetry. It's shameful.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 17, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> contributed
> written
> made
> all much of a muchness, doesn't matter anyway - it's the best post he has on urban



Totally agree, just was wondering. And I'm bored of work and nothing seems to be happening today.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Totally agree, just was wondering. And I'm bored of work and nothing seems to be happening today.


dinner time now tho


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 17, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> dinner time now tho



Microwaveable veggie lasagne. Uninspiring. And I had a shit date last night. 

Cheer us up eh, Pickers?


----------



## TopCat (Jul 17, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Microwaveable veggie lasagne. Uninspiring. And I had a shit date last night.
> 
> Cheer us up eh, Pickers?


Cheers us up instead. Tell us about the shit date.


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 17, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Do you make a post? It never sounds right to me.
> 
> Surely you post a thing, or you do a post. You don't make a post?



Ah, the do/make conundrum of English! Oh, to be like French/German/Spanish, where they only have one verb: faire/machen/hacer.


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 17, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Cheers us up instead. Tell us about the shit date.





Nah fam.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 17, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Nah fam.


Great big meanie


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 17, 2019)

SpackleFrog said:


> Microwaveable veggie lasagne. Uninspiring. And I had a shit date last night.
> 
> Cheer us up eh, Pickers?


Pickers might be able to - i doubt i can

find i'm owed £100 from overtime last year, chasing that up
treating myself to a pub lunch
and ice cream for afters


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 17, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Pickers might be able to - i doubt i can
> 
> find i'm owed £100 from overtime last year, chasing that up
> treating myself to a pub lunch
> and ice cream for afters



'Kinell. Rub it in why don't you?


----------



## SpackleFrog (Jul 17, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Great big meanie



It's really not that interesting!


----------



## M Testa (Jul 18, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Enough of this shit poetry. It's shameful.



(... mutters 'just cos you cant do poems or anything!')


----------



## M Testa (Jul 18, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> that's the best post you've ever made



i did have a little 'divine assistance' with it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 18, 2019)

M Testa said:


> i did have a little 'divine assistance' with it.


i know


Spoiler



a little liquid inspiration


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 18, 2019)

1979 said:


> Free Tommy.



Doesn't quite have the same cachet as "Free Nelson Mandela", does it?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 18, 2019)

Free Tommy demo Manchester July 27th apparently .


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 18, 2019)

isvicthere? said:


> Bean encroachment on egg: OK/not OK?



The egg encroachers need to be liquidated.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 18, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Free Tommy demo Manchester July 27th apparently .



re: tommytubbies in manchester, bristol & brum. They've not done well in any of them.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 18, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> The egg encroachers need to be liquidated.



liquidated? hard boiled surely?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 18, 2019)

M Testa said:


> re: tommytubbies in manchester, bristol & brum. They've not done well in any of them.


They might be over extending themselves. Apparantly they have one August 3rd London as well and Tommos negotiations about 'unity' ie lets give it one last one for the gipper.  haven't finished yet. Goddards got his court case in London as well but thats a bit of after the Lord Mayors show now


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 19, 2019)

Ha ha the lionheart Goddard suddenly morphed into the lion off the Wizard of Oz and pleaded guilty to try and avoid a jail sentence. 
Are you a man or a mouse James?
Goddard: 'Put some cheese in the corner and we@ll talk about it '
Report from court 



Tristan Kirk
@kirkkorner


----------



## Dandred (Jul 21, 2019)

Did he have an accident in the showers yet?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 21, 2019)

Dandred said:


> Did he have an accident in the showers yet?


According to the Mirror, yes.


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 21, 2019)

So not quite the hero's welcome then?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 21, 2019)

> Tommy Robinson was punched in the face by a 70-year-old inmate just days after being thrown behind bars, it is claimed.
> 
> The English Defence League founder, 36, was reportedly "decked" by the elderly lag for acting "like a celebrity" in the showers at HMP Belmarsh, reports the Daily Star Sunday



Tommy Robinson 'decked in prison shower by man, 70, for acting like a celebrity'

SYL trying to act the big shot and coming very quickly undone certainly has the ring of truth about it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 21, 2019)

Doubt it'll be the last time he's decked by a man twice his age


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 21, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> So not quite the hero's welcome then?


It's the sort of welcome I hoped he'd have


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Doubt it'll be the last time he's decked by a man twice his age


or height


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jul 21, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> It's the sort of welcome I hoped he'd have



Made my day.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 21, 2019)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Made my day.


May your day be made frequently over the coming weeks


----------



## emanymton (Jul 21, 2019)

No, no. You have all got it all wrong. He wasn't decked by a 70 year old. He was jumped by 70 Muslims, but bravely fought them off.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 21, 2019)

I like the bit where he apparently said he'd "slipped" 

You absolutely know that the one thing he would dearly love to have done would have been to either grandstand this as some massive fight he won against the odds (70 Muslims, etc), or as some whiny example of why he was so much at risk in prison.

But I guess either Tommy "Captain Lightning" Robinson quickly realised which way was up, or someone had a quiet word while his chin was still smarting and explained how much more it, and many, many other parts of his body were going to smart if he started making a fuss about things...


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 21, 2019)

emanymton said:


> No, no. You have all got it all wrong. He wasn't decked by a 70 year old. He was jumped by 70 Muslims, but bravely beat them off.




Fixed for you


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 21, 2019)

Long may his stupid face get punched.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 21, 2019)

'DON'T YOU KNOW WHO I OOOOFFFF.' 
he has form for not being famous: 
Judge humiliates Tommy Robinson saying ‘he’s not as famous as he thinks’ | Metro News


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 21, 2019)

Not to play the whole "I told you so" card but I did kind of predict that Yaxley-Lennon would get a slap the moment he gave it large in big man jail.  

Only problem now is if he twists this into something it ain't, for his dickhead followers to lap up. Let's face it, they ain't so good with checking their facts etc.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 21, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> Not to play the whole "I told you so" card but I did kind of predict that Yaxley-Lennon would get a slap the moment he gave it large in big man jail.
> 
> Only problem now is if he twists this into something it ain't, for his dickhead followers to lap up. Let's face it, they ain't so good with checking their facts etc.


They'll lap it up anyway. Fact is a detail that they don't trouble themselves with.


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 21, 2019)

existentialist said:


> They'll lap it up anyway. Fact is a detail that they don't trouble themselves with.



I know it's just that they'll use this as a way to say he's being persecuted and that on the houseblock.

I lay odds now that Yaxley-Lennon took the numbers straight after this incident, in order to try and get it cushty. Here's hoping he tries it again in there, thinking the other cons are cowed there too....


----------



## existentialist (Jul 21, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> I know it's just that they'll use this as a way to say he's being persecuted and that on the houseblock.
> 
> I lay odds now that Yaxley-Lennon took the numbers straight after this incident, in order to try and get it cushty. Here's hoping he tries it again in there, thinking the other cons are cowed there too....


"took the numbers" → segregation wing?


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 21, 2019)

existentialist said:


> "took the numbers" → segregation wing?



Vulnerable prisoner  wing. Took the numbers = going on Rule 43,the name for that wing. Tbf, they're not all bacons there. Some are pad thieves, debtors, been bullied (or decked by a 70 year old ) or in for a dodgy crime.

I do apologise though, I slipped into prisoner speak momentarily.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 21, 2019)

i say, can we speak the non-criminal British language please? took the numbers? rule 43? bacons? is this a bingo thing? and pad thieves? can't crims afford their own stationary these days?


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 21, 2019)

M Testa said:


> i say, can we speak the non-criminal British language please? took the numbers? rule 43? bacons? is this a bingo thing? and pad thieves? can't crims afford their own stationary these days?



I do apologise, please don't send the kangas my way.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 21, 2019)

so he in the nonce wing after getting beaten up by a 70 year old man


it must be like being back in the EDL


----------



## TopCat (Jul 21, 2019)

Are they still doing pickets of  belmarsh?


----------



## xenon (Jul 21, 2019)

All a bit unsavery this prison lols. 

Fuck pofaced a bit there i know. Was hoping for a better contribution.Maybe tmw.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 22, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> That's a quite clueless reading of how prison works.
> 
> But carry on implying that all the cons are racist.  he'll get more applause from the screws than the cons but hey, what do I know? I've only spent time in in big man jail.
> 
> Yaxley-Lennon is going to go straight on the numbers, it's going to be the only way hell be even vaguely safe. *He goes on a main wing and he'll try and give it the big un, believe his own hype sort of thing....and he'll go over the landing.* Which will be a great shame I'm sure.



Great prediction.

Tommy Robinson 'decked in prison shower by man, 70, for acting like a celebrity'


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 22, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Great prediction.
> 
> Tommy Robinson 'decked in prison shower by man, 70, for acting like a celebrity'


Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 22, 2019)

ruffneck23 said:


> Tommy Robinson, the court case and (guffaw) 'free speech'



I know. But that post didn’t acknowledge the spot on point of what would happen by Mr Singh.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 22, 2019)

He didn't go over the landing.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 22, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> He didn't go over the landing.


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 22, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> He didn't go over the landing.



Not yet anyway. ..


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 23, 2019)

Could that be crowdfunded? the over the balcony bit?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jul 23, 2019)

In a surprise to no-one, Yaxley-Lennon's former camerawoman Lucy Brown accuses him and his associates of spending thousands they've received in donations on cocaine.

[Hit play for audio.]


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 23, 2019)

The money's better spent on cocaine than racism tbh.


----------



## M Testa (Jul 23, 2019)

there has long been unsubstantiated info about him dealing coke and using EDL and his non-salon to launder cash, no solid evidence tho but it's not very surprising. 
It usually doesn't take long for his followers to get pissed off with him as he fauns over those donating large sums rather than 10 bob shit-thick acolytes.


----------



## Rivendelboy (Jul 23, 2019)

"the tommy movement" lolz


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 23, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> In a surprise to no-one, Yaxley-Lennon's former camerawoman Lucy Brown accuses him and his associates of spending thousands they've received in donations on cocaine.
> 
> [Hit play for audio.]




Comes as no surprise , she did the Panorama documentary for SYL after a fall out and then learns that Caolen and his mate, despite the documentary hinting that they were in cahoots with HnH, gets the contract for  his next  documentary. (incedentally its alleged to be about the lifestory of some Jewish guy which no doubt will attempt to tap the Zionist market). What she did say in her overlong and rambling interview was a bit of gossip about Tracey Blackwell falling out with SYL over his lies (if true he'll go into Tracey's black book which already has Danny Tommo in it) but more importantly about her political views. She rejects civic nationalism and fears about the decline of the white population. For her ethnicity is the most important thing and DNA. Which pushes her over the line into 14 words white supremacism territory.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 23, 2019)

The39thStep yes shift right with a fair wind behind her over a few years. She described herself as “alt lite” originally - first I saw her was around that protest about the weird hipster fash gallery in Dalston.


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 28, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Free Tommy demo Manchester July 27th apparently .



It was raining so where else to take their protest to but the Arndale...

Supporters of jailed Far Right activist Tommy Robinson held a protest inside the Arndale Centre


----------



## alex_ (Jul 28, 2019)

Part 2 said:


> It was raining so where else to take their protest to but the Arndale...
> 
> Supporters of jailed Far Right activist Tommy Robinson held a protest inside the Arndale Centre



Otherwise the Snowflakes would melt in the rain.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 28, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The money's better spent on cocaine than racism tbh.


Cunt powder is known for exaggerating the cuntitude in folk so I'm not sure it helped suppress their racism tbh.


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 28, 2019)

Brixton Hatter said:


> In a surprise to no-one, Yaxley-Lennon's former camerawoman Lucy Brown accuses him and his associates of spending thousands they've received in donations on cocaine.
> 
> [Hit play for audio.]




Where did she say pacifically that the donations were spent on coke? Just that there was a lot of coke snorting going on.. big fucking whoop!! We've all seen the Gideon photos


----------



## BCBlues (Jul 28, 2019)

Part 2 said:


> It was raining so where else to take their protest to but the Arndale...
> 
> Supporters of jailed Far Right activist Tommy Robinson held a protest inside the Arndale Centre



Looks like the same lot who got off the boat in Southampton only more wet.


----------



## Fedayn (Jul 29, 2019)

There's a few pics/videos online regarding the 'free tommy' demo in Glasgow. The demo was so huge that a mate who lives 100 yards round the corner neither heard nor saw it....


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 29, 2019)

BCBlues said:


> Looks like the same lot who got off the boat in Southampton only more wet.


it's almost enough to make you feel sorry for yaxley-lennon, being supported by such clueless tossers


----------



## existentialist (Jul 29, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> it's almost enough to make you feel sorry for yaxley-lennon, being supported by such clueless tossers


Almost, but not quite.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 29, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Almost, but not quite.


it's no surprise the loathsome yaxley-lennon attracts such nefandous supporters.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 29, 2019)

Fedayn said:


> There's a few pics/videos online regarding the 'free tommy' demo in Glasgow. The demo was so huge that a mate who lives 100 yards round the corner neither heard nor saw it....


FLAF posted that it was scattered but haven't seen anything more than that.



I know "thinking things through" isn't their strong point but trying this stuff on in Scotland is surely an obviously bad idea  tbh, "free tommy part 2" seems to have been a bit of a flop generally.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 29, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> FLAF posted that it was scattered but haven't seen anything more than that.
> 
> 
> 
> I know "thinking things through" isn't their strong point but trying this stuff on in Scotland is surely an obviously bad idea  tbh, "free tommy part 2" seems to have been a bit of a flop generally.



I don't imagine the madness of king tommy iii will do well at the box office either


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 29, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> FLAF posted that it was scattered but haven't seen anything more than that.
> 
> 
> 
> I know "thinking things through" isn't their strong point but trying this stuff on in Scotland is surely an obviously bad idea  tbh, "free tommy part 2" seems to have been a bit of a flop generally.



There were a few posts on far right facebook pages.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 31, 2019)

There's apparently going to be a Free Tommy march on Saturday in London at some unspecified central location (possibly oxford street somewhere). I'd expect it to have a better turnout than the ones so far but that isn't saying much.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 31, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There's apparently going to be a Free Tommy march on Saturday in London at some unspecified central location (possibly oxford street somewhere). I'd expect it to have a better turnout than the ones so far but that isn't saying much.



Not saying much? The one when he first got jailed in May 2018 must have had upwards of 15,000 on it!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 31, 2019)

On that occasion they mostly got pissed on and around Trafalgar Square and then marched a short distance along Whitehall for their Nuremberg Rally.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 31, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not saying much? The one when he first got jailed in May 2018 must have had upwards of 15,000 on it!



but a fraction of those numbers in recent ones. I would be amazed if he got anything close to that.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jul 31, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> but a fraction of those numbers in recent ones. I would be amazed if he got anything close to that.



Well fingers crossed for the luck of fate then.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Jul 31, 2019)

M Testa said:


> there has long been unsubstantiated info about him dealing coke and using EDL and his non-salon to launder cash, no solid evidence tho but it's not very surprising.
> It usually doesn't take long for his followers to get pissed off with him as he fauns over those donating large sums rather than 10 bob shit-thick acolytes.



I took this leaked video as as close to substantiation that he does a lot of gak as I need. 

Far-right Tommy Robinson declares himself a ‘Zionist’ in leaked video

Does he not have a possession conviction, as well?

Tommy Robinson (activist) - Wikipedia

Yes, yes he does.


----------



## keybored (Jul 31, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> Where did she say pacifically that the donations were spent on coke? Just that there was a lot of coke snorting going on.. big fucking whoop!! We've all seen the Gideon photos


So... the money Tommy receives through donations is ring-fenced for good causes and all the cocaine consumed by him and his entourage is funded by the revenue from a few sunbeds. Bless.


----------



## hot air baboon (Jul 31, 2019)

Isn't he under fairly close scrutiny by the police & other interested state operators though ? I can't see why they would be in any way indulgent towards SYL-TR being involved or connected to activities along those lines ( no pun intended )


----------



## keybored (Jul 31, 2019)

I think he's more of an avid consumer than a supplier. People seemed happy to buy his sob stories and conspiracies, no need to risk dealing class A drugs.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 31, 2019)

keybored said:


> I think he's more of an avid consumer than a supplier. People seemed happy to buy his sob stories and conspiracies, no need to risk dealing class A drugs.


He's a dealer who samples his own stash, or he certainly has been in the past if he isn't when he's at liberty now


----------



## keybored (Jul 31, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> He's a dealer who samples his own stash, or he certainly has been in the past if he isn't when he's at liberty now


It wouldn't surprise me if he had been in the more distant past. But with the amount of donations and paid gigs he had rolling in in the more recent past, he could have stayed almost* legit and still been able to support his own habit, as well as his lackeys'. 

*if only he could have stopped attention-seeking near courtrooms.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 31, 2019)

hot air baboon said:


> Isn't he under fairly close scrutiny by the police & other interested state operators though ? I can't see why they would be in any way indulgent towards SYL-TR being involved or connected to activities along those lines ( no pun intended )


Oh, I can. If he's being watched at that sort of level, then I'd not be at all surprised if someone hasn't made the decision to ensure that he absolutely has as much rope as he needs to hang himself.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 1, 2019)

I find it difficult to imagine that the branch aren’t keeping him under close scrutiny. I doubt they care what’s going up his nostrils unless it suits them to.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Aug 1, 2019)

Putting the d in 'White power'

(I'm claiming that if it's never been done, which I doubt)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 1, 2019)

Worth remembering that the Free Tommy stuff last year was quite heavily funded and organised - there were stages, big screens, speakers, lots of orgs involved. Doesn't seem to be the case this time.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 1, 2019)

That may well have had something to do with Bannon who might have written him off now that he's ended up in jail again.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 1, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Worth remembering that the Free Tommy stuff last year was quite heavily funded and organised - there were stages, big screens, speakers, lots of orgs involved. Doesn't seem to be the case this time.



Also there was loads pro-tommy shit all over social media and various hi-vis gobshites like morrisey, hopkins and trump taking up his cause. 
All there's been this time has been his drug induced paranoia fueled  plea for asylum and the story about him getting decked by a pensioner for trying and failing to be the big shot.  
Neither of which are good looks for a self styled martyr/political prisoner.


----------



## redcogs (Aug 1, 2019)

Maybe send him a cake without a file in it? Or better still a cyanide capsule


----------



## jimmer (Aug 1, 2019)

keybored said:


> It wouldn't surprise me if he had been in the more distant past. But with the amount of donations and paid gigs he had rolling in in the more recent past, he could have stayed almost* legit and still been able to support his own habit, as well as his lackeys'.
> 
> *if only he could have stopped attention-seeking near courtrooms.


This would make a lot of sense, I've heard stories from people which would suggest this was the case. There's also a particularly lurid story on an anonymous blog somewhere which purports to explain what SYL was up to when he developed his hatred of Muslims.

The video of Lucy Brown claiming SYL might have been spending his supporters money on chang needs to be seen in the context of split within the 'Tommy movement' over Israel/Jews. There's been a few things which have caused it and it stems from SYL losing Brown, Robertson and LLewlyn-John as his 'team' and replacing them with Daniel Thomas and Avi Yemini, which means there are no longer people within SYL's immediate circle who have sympathies for white nationalism and Zionism is far more important for them than it was even last year, although SYL has of course always been on the Zionist side of this split within the counter-jihad movement.

There's two incidents which people on the Nazi side of the split are citing as reasons for their break with SYL. One is him crowd funding large sums of money to make a documentary about Muslim grooming gangs. Apparently supporters were expecting it to be released soon but it appears to have been canned or is delayed. At one of the protests outside the Old Bailey he announced a new documentary called 'Shalom' which is due to come out soon and is about an elderly Jewish man who moves to Israel from the UK because of anti-Semitism from Muslims (supposedly). The other incident is long term SYL associate Shazia Hobbs being forced out of the TR.News editorial team after writing an anti-Semitic article for the website about the Frankfurt School (and presumably cultural Marxism). Hobbs has recently become quite chummy with former BNP youth leader Mark Collett.

The Nazi side of the split appears to be led by Collett who has been organising a number of what seem to be fairly competent young white nationalists. Collett was recently the subject of a hit piece video released by TR.News which was released to hit back at his side after Brown's revelations. Collett's got a fairly large following on Twitter and YouTube (and has been very careful about not breaching the rules of both) and has been using this to push his politics. He's also been organising a series of IRL events, such as runs, camping trips in the Peak District and drinks in pubs. It was on one of the camping trips on the Peak District that Brown was photographed wearing a Sonnenrad necklace while walking along the Mam Tor ridge. These trips appear to have grown in size, with Collett claiming 38 people were on the last one.

Among those 38 were former Conservative council candidate Darren Harrison from Watford, who seems to be going full Nazi, as well as his fellow 'Defend Europa' writer Laura Towler. On one of Collett's weekly YouTube shows before the whole 'Tommy movement split' happened, Collett and Towler revealed they are encouraging other white nationalists to join them in conducting a survey in white working class areas, asking people who they feel about 'being demographically replaced', which they'll be releasing a film of themselves doing titled 'We Were Never Asked'. This is fairly sophisticated propaganda for their movement and appears to be intended to get this new generation of activists familiar with going into white working class communities and talking to people, something which the BNP was fairly effective at in the past but the far-right has struggled with over the past decade.

At the moment Collett is organising a conference for this scene which will be held in the Manchester area in September. Tickets are £50 a pop which gets you a two-course meal and the opportunity to listen to a handful of speakers, capacity is capped at 100 and apparently at least half of the tickets have already gone. I would really not be surprised to see people around Collett attempt to launch a BNP 2.0 at some point in the near future. Collett was seen as a potential leader for such a party, which it looked like the Forum network was hoping to launch before it fell apart, but maybe has enough sense to realise he's too discredited to lead such an organisation himself. Irrespective of that, while SYL is in prison, it looks like Collett is making a bid for hegemony on the far-right and is trying to damage SYL as much as he can. I'd be surprised if he won this battle and imagine SYL will still be a key figure on the far-right when he is released, but his era of dominance on the British far-right appears to be on the wane.


----------



## M Testa (Aug 1, 2019)

re: under police supervision. in 2010 (?) he was nicked on the way to a Scottish demo and taken back to Sheffield. it was rumoured but unsubstantiated that SB lent on him for info on soccer ruffians who were planning on going to some Euro/World Cup tournament altho what the deal was i don't know. 
He is highly visible, been arrested many times and it is likely he will have some sort of relationship with plod, especially given the amount of psycho bomber types and sex offenders who gravitate towards him. 
Then the trips to Israel, links with various alt-shite orgs in Europe etc., and the crazies who come out of there. 
He has many contacts and much info on them. 
this is just what i think, but i don't want to get all conspiracy crazy on it.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 1, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Worth remembering that the Free Tommy stuff last year was quite heavily funded and organised - there were stages, big screens, speakers, lots of orgs involved. Doesn't seem to be the case this time.


Thats a good point about the money. The MEF donation may have been a one off and with UKIPs demise ( they hosted the original MEF/ TR meting) there doesnt seem to be the same level of  backing. Danny Tommo despite his plea for unity has fallen out with a whole number of fringe groups like the DFLA , who's leadership tbf had an independent line on TR, Tracey Blackwells YellowVests etc.The remergence of Richard Inman doesnt seem to have brought out much veteran support. Danny Tommo was even trying to make contact with biker groups However there isnt a lot to call on outside of the cult of Tommy these groups are very small and dont bring any real numbers or wider forces. The Manchester demo ended up with non entity speakers representing absolutley no one  like Dylan Cresswell and Dave Sumner.


jimmer said:


> This would make a lot of sense, I've heard stories from people which would suggest this was the case. There's also a particularly lurid story on an anonymous blog somewhere which purports to explain what SYL was up to when he developed his hatred of Muslims.
> 
> The video of Lucy Brown claiming SYL might have been spending his supporters money on chang needs to be seen in the context of split within the 'Tommy movement' over Israel/Jews. There's been a few things which have caused it and it stems from SYL losing Brown, Robertson and LLewlyn-John as his 'team' and replacing them with Daniel Thomas and Avi Yemini, which means there are no longer people within SYL's immediate circle who have sympathies for white nationalism and Zionism is far more important for them than it was even last year, although SYL has of course always been on the Zionist side of this split within the counter-jihad movement.
> 
> ...


The most significant part of the Lucy Brown video  for me was when she said that didnt see civic nationalism ( or indeed TR) as the future direction as she thought ethnicity was more important ie racial nationalism. This fits in with the Colettt direction. Not sure how much potential that actually has tbh.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 1, 2019)

On the one hand it's good that TR is not getting support. On the other hand it's concerning if this is because the ones with the money don't think he's a big enough nazi - I'm not sure that TR will chase that, though he's certainly pretty flexible, but I expect they are looking for someone who _is_.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 1, 2019)

The support he had in 2018 haven’t gone away either. Any crumble in their organisation can soon be re-established.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 1, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The support he had in 2018 haven’t gone away either.  Any crumble in their organisation can soon be re-established.


They're lucky not to have been sent to bed without any afters


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 1, 2019)

I was seriously worried in May last year. I know it’s funny to take the piss out of them but I was gobsmacked.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 2, 2019)

I'm not sure if the money has dried up this time around, although I'd have thought a lot was spent on the MEP electoral campaign and opposing the court case so there may not be as much floating about. I think a more significant things in term of limiting numbers are the change in team and social media crackdowns, the two Hope Not Hate operatives and Brown had the experience of organising the 'Day for Freedom' with SYL shortly before he was jailed and links with a number of key alt-right figures, so they just needed to roll all of that into the next two protests and keep it moving. By changing the personnel around him SYL has lost that experience and now has people who're more interested in replacing him as a content creator than organising street protests (Tommo notably couldn't even successfully organise a kidnapping, Yemini has been in Australia dealing with his domestic violence court case).

The social media crackdown has dramatically limited SYL's audience, he had 1 million+ Facebook followers last time around and that channel was used to promote the 'Free Tommy' protests. As far as I can tell nobody on the alt-right with similar reach has been promoting the upcoming protests (which is another example of Tommo's incompetence). Because of the social media crackdown most of the far-right are now using Telegram (badly). The number of people in the main Telegram channels for the 'Tommy movement' is significantly lower than the number of Facebook followers he once had, there's only 50k people in the biggest (and a large chunk of that will be anti-fascists). Plus all of the smaller channels and group chats have been engulfed in the feud with the Nazis I mentioned above, conflict like that within a movement can really alienate people just by creating a toxic atmosphere.



The39thStep said:


> The most significant part of the Lucy Brown video  for me was when she said that didnt see civic nationalism ( or indeed TR) as the future direction as she thought ethnicity was more important ie racial nationalism. This fits in with the Collett direction. Not sure how much potential that actually has tbh.


Brown's been on a slightly surprising trajectory since she was booted out of SYL's camp at the 'Day for Freedom', she had appeared to be one of the more liberal members of SYL's circle (having formerly been involved in Sister's Uncut and the SWP's BLM front). But she was close friends with Michael Brooks (who described himself as "14 and 88") who has presumably dragged her to the right and appeared to be involved with Tom Dupre (who quit Generation Identity supposedly over a key figure's Nazi links and then started up a podcast named after a minor BNP functionary lauded as a influential thinker). 

Only a few months after being booted out of SYL's circle she ended up on one of Collett's camping trips (presumably through Dupre) where she seems to have become close to Collett and Colin Robertson (aka Millenial Woes). Those two appear to be effectively grooming her into becoming a white nationalist which has been kind of disturbing to watch. Brown appeared on Collett's weekly YouTube show a couple of months ago where she was ambushed by the hosts into clarifying if she's gone full Nazi and then had a breakdown and told viewers she was Jewish. That led to Robertson going on her YouTube channel to get her to clarify that she didn't have a firm position on the "Jewish Question" was open to being educated about the topic!

After Brown's revelation about SYL's chang habit she deleted all her social media accounts, I'd expect she'll either reappear in the future as a full on white nationalist after her grooming is complete and Collett/Robertson decide they can roll her out as a propagandist, or she'll walk away from politics and try to get a normal life back. As for the potential racial nationalism has, over a million people will vote for it and a party advocating it came close to taking control of a couple of councils.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 2, 2019)

jimmer said:


> I'm not sure if the money has dried up this time around, although I'd have thought a lot was spent on the MEP electoral campaign and opposing the court case so there may not be as much floating about. I think a more significant things in term of limiting numbers are the change in team and social media crackdowns, the two Hope Not Hate operatives and Brown had the experience of organising the 'Day for Freedom' with SYL shortly before he was jailed and links with a number of key alt-right figures, so they just needed to roll all of that into the next two protests and keep it moving. By changing the personnel around him SYL has lost that experience and now has people who're more interested in replacing him as a content creator than organising street protests (Tommo notably couldn't even successfully organise a kidnapping, Yemini has been in Australia dealing with his domestic violence court case).
> 
> The social media crackdown has dramatically limited SYL's audience, he had 1 million+ Facebook followers last time around and that channel was used to promote the 'Free Tommy' protests. As far as I can tell nobody on the alt-right with similar reach has been promoting the upcoming protests (which is another example of Tommo's incompetence). Because of the social media crackdown most of the far-right are now using Telegram (badly). The number of people in the main Telegram channels for the 'Tommy movement' is significantly lower than the number of Facebook followers he once had, there's only 50k people in the biggest (and a large chunk of that will be anti-fascists). Plus all of the smaller channels and group chats have been engulfed in the feud with the Nazis I mentioned above, conflict like that within a movement can really alienate people just by creating a toxic atmosphere.
> 
> ...


Some interesting points but I think the problem for the racial nationalists is they have to compete in what is a crowded and small market not only against civic nationalists / For Britain/ Gen Id  but that their anti semitism looks very dated and vulnerable now. Of course they could disguise it but its key to them and its will always bubble to the surface.
With Brown its a question of income rather than her politics which will help shape her future I think. Btw despite her CV claims about Sisters Uncut/BLM did anyone who was in those groups actually ever come across her at the time?


----------



## TopCat (Aug 2, 2019)

jimmer said:


> This would make a lot of sense, I've heard stories from people which would suggest this was the case. There's also a particularly lurid story on an anonymous blog somewhere which purports to explain what SYL was up to when he developed his hatred of Muslims.
> 
> The video of Lucy Brown claiming SYL might have been spending his supporters money on chang needs to be seen in the context of split within the 'Tommy movement' over Israel/Jews. There's been a few things which have caused it and it stems from SYL losing Brown, Robertson and LLewlyn-John as his 'team' and replacing them with Daniel Thomas and Avi Yemini, which means there are no longer people within SYL's immediate circle who have sympathies for white nationalism and Zionism is far more important for them than it was even last year, although SYL has of course always been on the Zionist side of this split within the counter-jihad movement.
> 
> ...


Didn't  Collet make a complete arse of himself a while back? I recollect the name and wincing at some thing he did?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 2, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Didn't  Collet make a complete arse of himself a while back? I recollect the name and wincing at some thing he did?


I remember when he got 'interviewed'  by Tony White and Kevin Whatmough


----------



## TopCat (Aug 2, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> I remember when he got 'interviewed'  by Tony White and Kevin Whatmough


Yeah I think that was it. Did he weep and stuff? Something about sex with Griffin?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 2, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> I remember when he got 'interviewed'  by Tony White and Kevin Whatmough



Didn’t he get caught out chatting up some underage lasses?


----------



## jimmer (Aug 2, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Some interesting points but I think the problem for the racial nationalists is they have to compete in what is a crowded and small market not only against civic nationalists / For Britain/ Gen Id  but that their anti semitism looks very dated and vulnerable now. Of course they could disguise it but its key to them and its will always bubble to the surface.
> With Brown its a question of income rather than her politics which will help shape her future I think. Btw despite her CV claims about Sisters Uncut/BLM did anyone who was in those groups actually ever come across her at the time?


Yeah, civic nationalists are always going to be more successful than racial nationalists in Britain. If a British fascism ever emerges I'd say it'll be from the 'Broom Army', Great British Bake-Off viewing types, rather than the people campaigning for white nationalism. I just can't see any of the civic nationalists on the current far-right being that successful though. 

For Britain are barely functioning as a political party, Generation Identity is a foreign import which was never going to work. The Tories and Brexit Party are essentially undercutting any support a civic nationalist far-right party could build. Importantly, none of these parties or organisations are trying to do the community organising the BNP once did, if white nationalists adopted that kind of practice again I could see them having similar successes, potentially even greater ones given the way they've now adapted to the internet.



TopCat said:


> Yeah I think that was it. Did he weep and stuff? Something about sex with Griffin?


He was in tears, there was a video of it on YouTube until very recently. I imagine he got it taken down. I'm not sure if there's anything about his alleged bisexuality in the public domain.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 2, 2019)

I was thinking of this but it’s difficult to get to any substantiated facts.

Lancaster Unity: The Mark Collett/Dave Hannam underage girls saga gets murkier as story unfolds


----------



## Libertad (Aug 2, 2019)

jimmer said:


> his fellow 'Defend Europa' writer Laura Towler.



Any connection to Gawain Towler?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 2, 2019)

jimmer said:


> Yeah, civic nationalists are always going to be more successful than racial nationalists in Britain. If a British fascism ever emerges I'd say it'll be from the 'Broom Army', Great British Bake-Off viewing types, rather than the people campaigning for white nationalism. I just can't see any of the civic nationalists on the current far-right being that successful though.
> 
> For Britain are barely functioning as a political party, Generation Identity is a foreign import which was never going to work. The Tories and Brexit Party are essentially undercutting any support a civic nationalist far-right party could build. Importantly, none of these parties or organisations are trying to do the community organising the BNP once did, if white nationalists adopted that kind of practice again I could see them having similar successes, potentially even greater ones given the way they've now adapted to the internet.
> 
> ...



Of course the left could always adopt community organising in vulnerable areas?


----------



## jimmer (Aug 2, 2019)

Libertad said:


> Any connection to Gawain Towler?


Not that I'm aware of and if there was I can't imagine he'd endorse her views.


The39thStep said:


> Of course the left could always adopt community organising in vulnerable areas?


You'd think the left would want to build working class power wouldn't you.


----------



## Libertad (Aug 2, 2019)

jimmer said:


> Not that I'm aware of and if there was I can't imagine he'd endorse her views.



Not at this precise moment he wouldn't.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 3, 2019)

Outside the BBC apparently; cops have announced an official area.



There is also an area for counter protestors which looks like it will be a bit small. Not sure how many people will pay attention to the zones on either side anyway.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 3, 2019)

RUPTLY is great for me today. I don't have the oomph to go up and counter demonstrate.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 3, 2019)

Poor turnout by the Tomministas for ‘The Big One’ better turn out by anti fash but aside from a couple of skirmishes Police seemed to be on top.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 3, 2019)

Loads of cops around generally, including the usual helicopter but also TSG, horses and dogs, though didn't see anybody let the dogs out (yeah yeah, but actually it was quite hot and it can't be good for them to sit in a van). Generally they prevented any mass meeting of groups - there were some outlying Free Tommy folk who peeled off to heckle and make a half-hearted attempt to get closer, but the cops blocked them and the only one I saw get through had his flags taken off him and was furious. It was antifa who made the most effort but there were too many cops around. They got diverted via lots of side streets but never got into direct contact.

After the "official" rally (a big black bus outside the BBC run by tr dot news, with some speakers and bad poetry) there were lots of tommyists in the pubs around the area, and the hoolie contingent were wandering and looking for a fight, but there weren't a huge number of them.

I understand that later on, after a few stellas at the All Bar One on upper Regent Street, some thought it was a good idea to go down to Westminster Bridge and block it and also hijack a tourist bus.


----------



## treelover (Aug 3, 2019)

looks a fair few there




The39thStep said:


> Poor turnout by the Tomministas for ‘The Big One’ better turn out by anti fash but aside from a couple of skirmishes Police seemed to be on top.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 3, 2019)

treelover said:


> looks a fair few there


They filled the area outside the church but no more. I'd say around a thousand, no more than two. About the same number of anti, maybe slightly less but hard to tell.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 3, 2019)

I'd gone home by that point but the yellow vest lot routinely harass motorists so this isn't hard to believe.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 3, 2019)

treelover said:


> looks a fair few there


Numbers are drastically down, no tactics, no leadership and to be frank they are just about there for the taking.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 3, 2019)

Oliver Cromwell's legacy in the civil war stakes looks pretty safe then


----------



## Badgers (Aug 3, 2019)

Some cunt has sprayed 'FREE TOMMY' on a load of road signs round my part of Hertfordshire 

Also a 'rally' going on...


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 3, 2019)

treelover said:


> looks a fair few there


Several hundred


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 3, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Several hundred


I think about 1000 tops


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 3, 2019)

500 cunts


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 3, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> 500 cunts


And you'd be less generous about the remainder


----------



## TopCat (Aug 4, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Numbers are drastically down, no tactics, no leadership and to be frank they are just about there for the taking.


RUPTLY were right in there all day with two operatives. When the Tommeh lot were on the Southbank it really brought back battle of waterlòo and frustration that after Waterloo we put up with this?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 4, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Numbers are drastically down, no tactics, no leadership and to be frank they are just about there for the taking.



So there is a need for a street based anti fascist movement now?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 4, 2019)




----------



## TopCat (Aug 4, 2019)

It was clear yesterday that the anti fash use of linked flag poles made it hard for the police to break them up and move them on. 

The Tommeh supporters certainly outweighed the anti fash. The Tommeh lot spends ages as well staring and shouting at their phones and went on a long tiring stride up and down Regent Street. They did not have much of a clue and most did not know the streets. 
Watching RUPTLY would have told what was happening. They had a camera team with the anti fash and with Tommeh lot.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> So there is a need for a street based anti fascist movement now?


There's a need for a lot of things imo but small steps at a time. 1) physical opposition 2) working class based antifascism  3) building working class self help and confidence in communities vulnerable to the far right. 4)building FLAF at football clubs


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> There's a need for a lot of things imo but small steps at a time. 1) physical opposition 2) working class based antifascism  3) building working class self help and confidence in communities vulnerable to the far right. 4)building FLAF at football clubs


1-3 aren't small steps, and arguably 4 isn't either

The first step before physical opposition is locate the enemy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2019)

Badgers said:


>



Tbh cop medics can be the most vicious of the lot, I'd shed no tears for him


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> 1-3 aren't small steps, and arguably 4 isn't either
> 
> The first step before physical opposition is locate the enemy.


You think thats a problem?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> You think thats a problem?


it is a good first step and if you think about it you might find it not so simple. Do you really think finding the fash and attacking them is always a good idea? You need to know where other forces are, eg the cops, because you don't want to smack the fascists in front of them. It tends to lead to legal difficulties if you do.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> it is a good first step and if you think about it you might find it not so simple. Do you really think finding the fash and attacking them is always a good idea? You need to know where other forces are, eg the cops, because you don't want to smack the fascists in front of them. It tends to lead to legal difficulties if you do.


I'll tell FLAF this, they might find it useful.


----------



## souljacker (Aug 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Tbh cop medics can be the most vicious of the lot, I'd shed no tears for him


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> I'll tell FLAF this, they might find it useful.


Yeh tell them how in your plan building FLAF comes after 3 very big steps iyo. That'll impress them.

One (former) poster thought that having a pop at the fash in Tower hamlets was just to do with finding them and twatting them and led a load of inexperienced people to glorious arrest iirc. The same man thought it a great idea to charge through police lines in Croydon leading er to another daft nicking. This was someone who at the time had two or three years being involved in anti-fascist activity.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 4, 2019)

Have any FLAF said anything about yesterday?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 4, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Have any FLAF said anything about yesterday?



They tweeted something about all being on holiday.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh tell them how in your plan building FLAF comes after 3 very big steps iyo. That'll impress them.
> 
> One (former) poster thought that having a pop at the fash in Tower hamlets was just to do with finding them and twatting them and led a load of inexperienced people to glorious arrest iirc. The same man thought it a great idea to charge through police lines in Croydon leading er to another daft nicking. This was someone who at the time had two or three years being involved in anti-fascist activity.



I think he was being sarcastic.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I think he was being sarcastic.


the thought crossed my mind but it seemed so much in keeping with his other posts I wasn't sure, if you mean his small steps. His I'll tell obviously was tho.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> the thought crossed my mind but it seemed so much in keeping with his other posts I wasn't sure, if you mean his small steps. His I'll tell obviously was tho.



I meant his “I’ll let flaf know” post.


----------



## Patteran (Aug 4, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Have any FLAF said anything about yesterday?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I meant his “I’ll let flaf know” post.


Yeh, which is why I was sarcastic in reply


----------



## TopCat (Aug 4, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'd gone home by that point but the yellow vest lot routinely harass motorists so this isn't hard to believe.



They harrased a load of people protesting outside the Turkish Embassy. They could not work out whether they politically supported them or hated them for being brown and not English.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 4, 2019)

Patteran said:


>



Oh I see the circular riddle is complete. 
I did wonder and worry for a bit that The39thStep had had a fall and banged his head.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 4, 2019)

Patteran said:


>



The comments are worth a look.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 4, 2019)

Lower league.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 4, 2019)

The closest that I saw that antis got to the tommyists was by the BBC when the former were diverted towards the official counter-protesting point, after a while of trying to get towards the latter via side roads. At that point there was a subset of tommyists that went absolutely apeshit, stuff was flying at the cops and batons were out, but it really was only a subset - maybe a hundred. I looped round to the side and most of the attendees were not in that group. (There was a wedding party in the Langham hotel between the two who were a bit confused.)

It's the stuff that happened afterwards that I think is the most worrying - attacking motorists like I mentioned, harassing people like TopCat mentioned. This is social intimidation and the cops do nothing about it (I've seen them "negotiate" between yellow vesters and motorists when the former have just stopped the latter screaming at them). This is central London so it's not like there's a specific community to intimidate but it sets a precedent for what they feel they can do.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh tell them how in your plan building FLAF comes after 3 very big steps iyo. That'll impress them.
> 
> One (former) poster thought that having a pop at the fash in Tower hamlets was just to do with finding them and twatting them and led a load of inexperienced people to glorious arrest iirc. The same man thought it a great idea to charge through police lines in Croydon leading er to another daft nicking. This was someone who at the time had two or three years being involved in anti-fascist activity.


I think you'll find that they'll be quite happy with what I suggested. Good steering group with some ex AFA/IWCA on board and loads of new blood.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 4, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> I think you'll find that they'll be quite happy with what I suggested. Good steering group with some ex AFA/IWCA on board and loads of new blood.


Historic day.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 4, 2019)

Countless PMs of support


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> One (former) poster thought that having a pop at the fash in Tower hamlets was just to do with finding them and twatting them and led a load of inexperienced people to glorious arrest iirc.



I’m surprised you missed out the incident at Welling.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m surprised you missed out the incident at Welling.


Other examples are available


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> I think you'll find that they'll be quite happy with what I suggested. Good steering group with some ex AFA/IWCA on board and loads of new blood.


Yeh. Who wouldn't be happy with what you suggested as a means, working class physical opposition to fascism, and a vehicle, flaf? But none of that's small steps and your placing the flaf fourth without previously mentioning them didn't suggest you didn't see their activity as of great importance. I'm glad you've changed your mind clarified your position.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. Who wouldn't be happy with what you suggested as a means, working class physical opposition to fascism, and a vehicle, flaf? But none of that's small steps and your placing the flaf fourth without previously mentioning them didn't suggest you didn't see their activity as of great importance. I'm glad you've changed your mind clarified your position.



Did he say those steps should happen sequentially? And are necessarily connected?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Did he say those steps should happen sequentially? And are necessarily connected?


When they're numbered 1 thru 4 the sequentiality of the small steps is clearly suggested, and if not then the important stuff usually placed first


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> When they're numbered 1 thru 4 the sequentiality of the small steps is clearly suggested



That wasn’t how I read it. He said “baby steps” meaning build slowly and then mentioned four things he thinks need to happen.
No idea why you’re getting annoyed by it unless it’s just old AFA beef in which case, yawn.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> That wasn’t how I read it. He said “baby steps” meaning build slowly and then mentioned four things he thinks need to happen.
> No idea why you’re getting annoyed by it unless it’s just old AFA beef in which case, yawn.


I was going to leave it but you seem so to want to discuss it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> There's a need for a lot of things imo but small steps at a time. 1) physical opposition 2) working class based antifascism  3) building working class self help and confidence in communities vulnerable to the far right. 4)building FLAF at football clubs


Does he say baby steps, Magnus McGinty?

Good night


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 4, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Does he say baby steps, Magnus McGinty?
> 
> Good night



Oh wow, “small steps at a time” and “baby steps” must mean two very different things. 
Night mate.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> You think thats a problem?


i remember being with afa looking for fash around a bloody sunday march about 20, 22 years ago, chasing them from pub to pub but always missing them by a few minutes: so, yes, it can be a problem.

the number of fash you see on the streets are by no means the same as the total number out, as there will be fascists in pubs or wandering the streets nearby - their spotters etc. rather than choosing to confront the opposition on a ground of their or the police's choosing, surely it would be a better idea to discuss matters with them at a place of your own choosing? not to mention that it's one thing to whack some drunken goons but quite another to put the fear of god into the really disciplined fash.

a couple of small steps i'd suggest - proper small steps, a few bits of tactical learning - would involve using the expertise there is from the ex-afa, ex-ra people to train up spotters and researchers so that it's not only when the opposition are out that you know what they're up to but where they're up to it, between times. the  best thing for this used to be the auld bnp website where they'd post pictures of the pubs they met in until some wanker at harry's place posted up about how they'd identified where some fash were drinking and before you could say 'master race my arse' all those pictures disappeared and were never seen again. - so, people who find out interesting things shouldn't share publicly on the interweb where those interesting things came from.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 5, 2019)

It doesn't look like they had many out, around 1k sounds about right. 



From watching the Ruptly livestream it was clear they don't really have any real leadership on the streets. There was one point when Danny Tommo stopped them from marching towards the LAFA bloc, which was heading towards Oxford Circus, and another when Richard Inman managed to stop a mob from Millbanking the BBC, but other than that they seemed to be pretty chaotic. There were reports of small groups moving around autonomously but not a lot seems to have happened. The 'Tommy movement' is definitely in decline, although as the row with the cops outside the All Bar One showed, the remnants have a capacity for violence. Had the police not stopped that mob from attacking the SUTR counter-protest it looks like they would have steamed through it when they tried to attack.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 5, 2019)

The RUPTLY cameras were right in there in both groups. I obviously listened and they picked up lots of the police commanding their people. Plus I can lip read a fair bit. Was fascinating observing the police operation.
The police only looked bothered by the flag pole cordon. Otherwise they had it in hand, if the goal was to keep both sides apart. They did less to protect the gen public from roaming Tommeh supporters.
Seeing the latter, spread out in busy Southbank crowds, gleefully shouting Allah is a paedo at any brown person was a sickner. Not much cctv down there should they ever use the same route in future.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

jimmer said:


> It doesn't look like they had many out, around 1k sounds about right.
> 
> 
> 
> From watching the Ruptly livestream it was clear they don't really have any real leadership on the streets. There was one point when Danny Tommo stopped them from marching towards the LAFA bloc, which was heading towards Oxford Circus, and another when Richard Inman managed to stop a mob from Millbanking the BBC, but other than that they seemed to be pretty chaotic. There were reports of small groups moving around autonomously but not a lot seems to have happened. The 'Tommy movement' is definitely in decline, although as the row with the cops outside the All Bar One showed, the remnants have a capacity for violence. Had the police not stopped that mob from attacking the SUTR counter-protest it looks like they would have steamed through it when they tried to attack.




Small up for it groups roaming around chaotically would be regarded as a success by us, so why not them?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2019)

Small up for it groups wandering clueless around for us would be the sign of defeat. Is that what it looks line in the gyms - mirroring them, No politics?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Small up for it groups wandering clueless around for us would be the sign of defeat. Is that what it looks line in the gyms - mirroring them, No politics?



You must be about six cans in by now I'm guessing.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> You must be about six cans in by now I'm guessing.


Do you even have like an anti-fascist tattoo?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Do you even have like an anti-fascist tattoo?



Ermmm...no. Does your pathetic caricature of everyone else on the Left sustain you in your 3 a.m bouts of despair?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Ermmm...no. Does your pathetic caricature of everyone else on the Left sustain you in your 3 a.m bouts of despair?




_Does your pathetic caricature of everyone else on the Left _

Oh no. pathetic caricaturery

_sustain you _

Yes

_in your 3 a.m bouts of despair?_

We all hear the hum at 4am

Some good hard lads will sort out this nonsense. They must be proper fit though. Approved and signed off like.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> _Does your pathetic caricature of everyone else on the Left _
> 
> Oh no. pathetic caricaturery
> 
> ...



I'd stick to the IPA in the afternoon and only shift to the hard stuff in the evening if I were you.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Parts of the left caricature themselves far better than anyone else can.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Small up for it groups roaming around chaotically would be regarded as a success by us, so why not them?


 There would be times when we'd use that as a deliberate strategy, in this case it was happening because of an absence of strategy. It's also the direction of travel they're heading in as a movement, if in the space of a year we'd gone from having 15k out on a protest, to only have 1k, we'd feel quite deflated. The 'Tommy movement' is in decline and splitting, despite it's escalating rhetoric.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2019)

It must be strong/here/now because these people need it to be.

I mean, what you got otherwise?


----------



## TopCat (Aug 5, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Small up for it groups wandering clueless around for us would be the sign of defeat. Is that what it looks line in the gyms - mirroring them, No politics?


Come on. Gyms are more credible than social centres or vegan cafes. Progress.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> It must be strong/here/now because these people need it to be.
> 
> I mean, what you got otherwise?



More than you..


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2019)

.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

jimmer said:


> There would be times when we'd use that as a deliberate strategy, in this case it was happening because of an absence of strategy. It's also the direction of travel they're heading in as a movement, if in the space of a year we'd gone from having 15k out on a protest, to only have 1k, we'd feel quite deflated. The 'Tommy movement' is in decline and splitting, despite it's escalating rhetoric.



That's largely down  to his social media ban I reckon.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

jimmer said:


> There would be times when we'd use that as a deliberate strategy, in this case it was happening because of an absence of strategy. It's also the direction of travel they're heading in as a movement, if in the space of a year we'd gone from having 15k out on a protest, to only have 1k, we'd feel quite deflated. The 'Tommy movement' is in decline and splitting, despite it's escalating rhetoric.



Although it’s mad that a turnout of 1,000 is seen as pathetic nowadays, when I balked at that turnout in Newcastle in 2013 due to the bounce from Lee Rigby. It only takes some more shit from Islamist cunts for numbers to swell again further.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 5, 2019)

Let's put the digs in the past and think to the future.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> You must be about six cans in by now I'm guessing.



Just to say though that it isn’t on to accuse someone of having an addiction, and it’s even worse mocking if it happens to be true. That said, what he said above. ^^


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Just to say though that it isn’t on to accuse someone of having an addiction, and it’s even worse mocking if it happens to be true. That said, what he said above. ^^



Is this your safe spaces policy?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Is this your safe spaces policy?



If you can’t respond politically just give up.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> If you can’t respond politically just give up.


Need a treadmill first.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)




----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2019)

Anti-fascist strava - who is the best anti-fascist pump-merchant today#

nb: small man pointing out that it's 90% in the brain.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> If you can’t respond politically just give up.



I'd respond politically if there was something to respond to.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> I'd respond politically if there was something to respond to.



I think I made the argument previously where some of these ‘red gyms’ are just part of a scene rather than the community. No idea what his criticisms are but those were mine.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I think I made the argument previously where some of these ‘red gyms’ are just part of a scene than the community. No idea what his criticisms are but those were mine.



The "Red Gyms" thing is an odd phenomena.  Some of them are trying to be community gyms, others self defence groups for activists, some are sat between the two. 

Not sure what butchers thinks they are or why they've wound him up so much.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Anti-fascism as the end, rather than a tactic, maybe?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Anti-fascism as the end, rather than a tactic, maybe?



But who thinks that?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> But who thinks that?



I don’t know. People who spend their time in red gyms?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I don’t know. People who spend their time in red gyms?



I don't follow that at all. Most "Red Gyms" are an at most bi weekly meet up so it'd be difficult to  spend much time there.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> I don't follow that at all. Most "Red Gyms" are an at most bi weekly meet up so it'd be difficult to  spend much time there.



What are their purpose?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What are their purpose?



Like I said, it varies. Some, 0161 and Solstar spring to mind, have tried to become community gyms.  I know more about Solstar , but they don't come at things with a specifically "anti fascist" focus.

Other groups are self defence meet ups for activists e.g hunt sabs or anti fascists who might find themselves in physical confrontations.

There's a couple of trade union based boxing clubs about as well.

There's been a few Interclub style meet ups  between the various gyms in London, Leeds, Manchester and Brighton.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

So keeping fit together? Nothing wrong with that.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2019)

Anti-fascism is a specialist skill and we provide the training.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So keeping fit together? Nothing wrong with that.



Apparently there is , at least in butchers deranged mind.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Apparently there is , at least in butchers deranged mind.



No idea why they’re called red gyms if they’re just mates training together.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> No idea why they’re called red gyms if they’re just mates training together.



Did you read the post?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Did you read the post?



Who trains at yours?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Just to say though that it isn’t on to accuse someone of having an addiction, and it’s even worse mocking if it happens to be true. That said, what he said above. ^^


It's ok, i don't mind at all. 

Not on at all generally. Ta for thinking of me


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> It's ok, i don't mind at all.
> 
> Not on at all generally. Ta for thinking of me



No worries man. I know we have run ins but it’s not on.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Who trains at yours?



A bit of a mix really.  Definitely started out as a mate's/activists meet up. Now a bit more public facing with a combat sports focus.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> A bit of a mix really.  Definitely started out as a mate's/activists meet up. Now a bit more public facing with a combat sports focus.



Great. I’d like to check it out. What times is it on and what is the address?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Great. I’d like to check it out. What times is it on and what is the address?



Left Hook


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

No address there.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> No address there.



If you want to turn up, message them.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> If you want to turn up, message them.



I'm sure we can all see the direction of travel without me labouring it. Most initiatives aimed at community participation aren't clandestine in their approach.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 5, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I'm sure we can all see the direction of travel without me labouring it. Most initiatives aimed at community participation aren't clandestine in their approach.



I think you're not bothering to read what I've written  so I'll leave it there.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> I think you're not bothering to read what I've written  so I'll leave it there.



I definitely didn't read the address of your club if that's what you meant. Care to rectify that?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 5, 2019)

Because a community gym ought not to be vetting the community. Best just keep it to a private thing where mates train together.


----------



## TopCat (Aug 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I'm sure we can all see the direction of travel without me labouring it. Most initiatives aimed at community participation aren't clandestine in their approach.


Might take a while to get to a tipping point where openness is the way forward.
Edited to add: Nothing wrong in this.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 6, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> If you want to turn up, message them.





Magnus McGinty said:


> I'm sure we can all see the direction of travel without me labouring it. Most initiatives aimed at community participation aren't clandestine in their approach.


TBF, given the nature of the people something like this is likely to come up against, it doesn't make a lot of sense to advertise the location and make it a target.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 6, 2019)

Edinburgh Helping Hands


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2019)

existentialist said:


> TBF, given the nature of the people something like this is likely to come up against, it doesn't make a lot of sense to advertise the location and make it a target.



Does it need to be under an anti fascist banner then? That’s the question.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 6, 2019)

"I turned up at the Jane Austen book group and the prissy fucks didn't want to discuss my favourite Stephen King novels"


----------



## existentialist (Aug 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Does it need to be under an anti fascist banner then? That’s the question.


I suspect you're operating from a position of ideological purity I can't even _see_, far less hold.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2019)

existentialist said:


> I suspect you're operating from a position of ideological purity I can't even _see_, far less hold.



By suggesting red gyms might benefit from being more community focused?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> "I turned up at the Jane Austen book group and the prissy fucks didn't want to discuss my favourite Stephen King novels"


it's no joke. i went along to an evening of discussion of jane austen and her relevance to the modern world and the vile invective that was thrown my way when i raised 'pride and prejudice and zombies' doesn't bear repetition even on these forums.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> By suggesting red gyms might benefit from being more community focused?



Is your one more community focussed?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Is your one more community focussed?



Is this your stock response to constructive criticism?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Is this your stock response to constructive criticism?



Dunno, have you got any constructive criticism ?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Because a community gym ought not to be vetting the community. Best just keep it to a private thing where mates train together.



Where does Left Hook call itself a community gym?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Where does Left Hook call itself a community gym?



I thought you were claiming it was ‘partly’.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I thought you were claiming it was ‘partly’.



No. Read what I wrote.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> A bit of a mix really.  Definitely started out as a mate's/activists meet up. Now a bit more public facing with a combat sports focus.



Definitely started out as a mates / activist meet up. But now it’s... not community focussed so who knows what you’re implying.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Definitely started out as a mates / activist meet up. But now it’s... not community focussed so who knows what you’re implying.


i work in a public facing role, but it's not community focussed, there's a definite difference. community focussed to me in the case you're talking about suggests more that the community are the group who are driving what the gym does, that would make it more of a community gym than an activist project.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Definitely started out as a mates / activist meet up. But now it’s... not community focussed so who knows what you’re implying.



Well you're desperately trying to twist this to make some sort of obscure point.

Ever thought about putting your energy into organising rather than whinging?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i work in a public facing role, but it's not community focussed, there's a definite difference. community focussed to me in the case you're talking about suggests more that the community are the group who are driving what the gym does, that would make it more of a community gym than an activist project.



Any idea what “a bit of a mix” means?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2019)

I mean community focussed in the sense of open to the community. Rather than insular scene stuff.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Any idea what “a bit of a mix” means?


i think he means there's times when activists will be using it and times when the user group will be a bit broader, but that's just a guess and for the actual definitive meaning you'd have to ask Red Sky


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 6, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Any idea what “a bit of a mix” means?



That some of the groups in the "Red Gyms" thing (which isn't really anything but a catchphrase) are trying to be community gyms. Some aren't or don't have the capacity to be if they wanted to.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 6, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> That some of the groups in the "Red Gyms" thing (which isn't really anything but a catchphrase) are trying to be community gyms. Some aren't or don't have the capacity to be if they wanted to.



But it was in response to me asking who trained at _your_ gym. Never mind.


----------



## CosmikRoger (Aug 6, 2019)

This thread was more fun to read when YL was getting a hiding from an OAP.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 6, 2019)

CosmikRoger said:


> This thread was more fun to read when YL was getting a hiding from an OAP.


For all we know he still is


----------



## existentialist (Aug 7, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> For all we know he still is


Now, there's a happy thought


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Now, there's a happy thought


Imagine syl's face being stamped on by a sturdy pensioner for 19 weeks


----------



## jimmer (Aug 7, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Although it’s mad that a turnout of 1,000 is seen as pathetic nowadays, when I balked at that turnout in Newcastle in 2013 due to the bounce from Lee Rigby. It only takes some more shit from Islamist cunts for numbers to swell again further.


This is a good point. The protest SYL did in Manchester after the arena attack (as UK Against Hate) was double the size of the one after Lee Rigby (as the EDL). Although both of those were eclipsed by the Football Lads Alliance (FLA), which I think shows that Islamist terror attacks will provoke reactionary anti-Muslim street protests, but SYL will not always be in control of them. The FLA kept it's distance from SYL at the start, John Meighan was initially very keen to not be tarnished by SYL's reputation. SYL was nowhere near the first FLA demo, covered the second for Rebel Media but kept on the fringes, then on the third after the FLA/DFLA split Meighan was desperate to get his photo taken alongside SYL who was mobbed and treated as a hero at both.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 7, 2019)

jimmer said:


> This is a good point. The protest SYL did in Manchester after the arena attack (as UK Against Hate) was double the size of the one after Lee Rigby (as the EDL). Although both of those were eclipsed by the Football Lads Alliance (FLA), which I think shows that Islamist terror attacks will provoke reactionary anti-Muslim street protests, but SYL will not always be in control of them. The FLA kept it's distance from SYL at the start, John Meighan was initially very keen to not be tarnished by SYL's reputation. SYL was nowhere near the first FLA demo, covered the second for Rebel Media but kept on the fringes, then on the third after the FLA/DFLA split Meighan was desperate to get his photo taken alongside SYL who was mobbed and treated as a hero at both.



My feeling is that SYL's bubble has burst. Hes is back to having a following  of the usal hardcore of boneheads - at one stage he was reaching well beyond that. It may well be that the constant counter campaign has had an effect - especially in highlighting his recent behavior - the delusional rants, the questions over money and the violence. So maybe - like hopkins - he is now too toxic anyone outside the far right hardcroe to be assocaited with. 
I thinks its more likely that he fades into insignificance (like britain first) and someone else will bob up the far right u-bend.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> My feeling is that SYL's bubble has burst. Hes is back to having a following  of the usal hardcore of boneheads - at one stage he was reaching well beyond that. It may well be that the constant counter campaign has had an effect - especially in highlighting his recent behavior - the delusional rants, the questions over money and the violence. So maybe - like hopkins - he is now too toxic anyone outside the far right hardcroe to be assocaited with.
> I thinks its more likely that he fades into insignificance (like britain first) and someone else will bob up the far right u-bend.


might also be that so much of it is self-inflicted prison - it is hard for all but the most deluded to see how he's been victimised when the original verdict was set aside and a new, highly scrutinised, trial took place. and frankly the tearful plea to donald trump and the republican party for political asylum was just pitiful and abject.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 7, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> might also be that so much of it is self-inflicted prison - it is hard for all but the most deluded to see how he's been victimised when the original verdict was set aside and a new, highly scrutinised, trial took place. and frankly the tearful plea to donald trump and the republican party for political asylum was just pitiful and abject.



yeah - the hysterical plea for asylum was a rather glorious bit of self humiliation .  Anyone who wasn't laughing would have been "don't make eye contact ... keep walking" .


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> So maybe - like hopkins - he is now too toxic anyone outside the far right hardcroe to be assocaited with.



I wonder with Hopkins whether having part of her brain removed in 2016 contributed much to her career trajectory.
No such excuses for YL.


----------



## LDC (Aug 7, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I mean community focussed in the sense of open to the community. Rather than insular scene stuff.



Wot community?

I'm all for being critical of scene stuff masquerading as a more expansive politics, but this banging your head against the variety of 'Red Gyms' seems a bit weird tbh. Anyway, here's a gym in Salford doing its thing next month with boxing, BBQ, music, and some arts and crafts.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 7, 2019)

jimmer said:


> This is a good point. The protest SYL did in Manchester after the arena attack (as UK Against Hate) was double the size of the one after Lee Rigby (as the EDL). Although both of those were eclipsed by the Football Lads Alliance (FLA), which I think shows that Islamist terror attacks will provoke reactionary anti-Muslim street protests, but SYL will not always be in control of them. The FLA kept it's distance from SYL at the start, John Meighan was initially very keen to not be tarnished by SYL's reputation. SYL was nowhere near the first FLA demo, covered the second for Rebel Media but kept on the fringes, then on the third after the FLA/DFLA split Meighan was desperate to get his photo taken alongside SYL who was mobbed and treated as a hero at both.


I don’t think the first FLA March against terrorism was reactionary . Quite a mixed crowd some of which are now-supporting FLAF, some right wing elements  but  mainly patriotic . Great pity that the left didn’t march against Islamacist terror attacks imo.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 7, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> My feeling is that SYL's bubble has burst. Hes is back to having a following  of the usal hardcore of boneheads - at one stage he was reaching well beyond that. It may well be that the constant counter campaign has had an effect - especially in highlighting his recent behavior - the delusional rants, the questions over money and the violence. So maybe - like hopkins - he is now too toxic anyone outside the far right hardcroe to be assocaited with.
> I thinks its more likely that he fades into insignificance (like britain first) and someone else will bob up the far right u-bend.


Agreed, I'm starting to think we may end up looking back and longing for the hegemonic figure on the far-right to be a coke-addled vlogger obsessed with building their own celebrity who would rather fleece their own followers to support their own habit than create a political movement which could be a serious threat. The next person could be worse.



The39thStep said:


> I don’t think the first FLA March against terrorism was reactionary . Quite a mixed crowd some of which are now-supporting FLAF, some right wing elements  but  mainly patriotic . Great pity that the left didn’t march against Islamacist terror attacks imo.


Patriotic is reactionary, 'against all extremism' means anti-communist. I didn't say it was far-right, but it was definitely reactionary.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 7, 2019)

jimmer said:


> Patriotic is reactionary...



Not sure I agree with this and most of the left don’t either given they celebrate the patriotism of the underdog.
In a UK context there’s plenty who see national identity as part of who they are who aren’t necessarily bigots. The left alienates itself by dismissing all those people (especially when alongside championing ‘correct’ patriotism’).


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 7, 2019)

There is no 'correct' patriotism.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 7, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> There is no 'correct' patriotism.



So a prole who gets off on their national side is just a cunt? Out of touch much?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 7, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So a prole who gets off on their national side is just a cunt? Out of touch much?


I support my national team but tbh don't think that can be conflated with patriotism in any sort of political sense. I don't think left should be so precious about this stuff, and def not about stuff like supporting england - social change makes the social conditions not the other way around - but calling a political demonstration around the english or british flag or centred on patriotism reactionary is fair game really isn't it


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not sure I agree with this and most of the left don’t either given they celebrate the patriotism of the underdog.
> In a UK context there’s plenty who see national identity as part of who they are who aren’t necessarily bigots. The left alienates itself by dismissing all those people (especially when alongside championing ‘correct’ patriotism’).


Does national identity equal patriotism? I'm not so sure


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 7, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I support my national team but tbh don't think that can be conflated with patriotism in any sort of political sense. I don't think left should be so precious about this stuff, and def not about stuff like supporting england - social change makes the social conditions not the other way around - but calling a political demonstration around the english or british flag or centred on patriotism reactionary is fair game really isn't it



The left are definitely touchy about it where as the far right embrace it. It’s an Achilles heel imho.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 7, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So a prole who gets off on their national side is just a cunt? Out of touch much?



What does 'national side' or 'national identity' actually mean to you? 



> ...most of the left don’t either given they celebrate the patriotism of the underdog.



Eh? really? The only people I have ever heard refer to themselves as 'patriots' or celebrate 'patriotism' are far from being the lovelies of the 'left'. 'Patriotism of the underdog' means a completely different thing a lot of the time..you are doing this weird blanket thing of using such terms as meaning 'usually white' and 'working class' again.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 7, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> What does 'national side' or 'national identity' actually mean to you?
> 
> 
> 
> Eh? really? The only people I have ever heard refer to themselves as 'patriots' or celebrate 'patriotism' are far from being the lovelies of the 'left'. 'Patriotism of the underdog' means a completely different thing a lot of the time..you are doing this weird blanket thing of using such terms as meaning 'usually white' and 'working class' again.



I’m not. That’s simply how you interpret me as that’s how you think. 
Maybe ask Irish people watching the Irish cricket team if national side means nothing to them. Or English Football fans or Welsh rugby fans, or any other examples you might think about instead of making shit up.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 7, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not. That’s simply how you interpret me as that’s how you think.


 ...oh give over...using your 'definition' Thomas Mair would be celebrated by the left.

I don't think this shit, you actually post it.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 7, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> ...oh give over...using your 'definition' Thomas Mair would be celebrated by the left.
> 
> I don't think this shit, you actually post it.



The only person bringing race into this is you as fucking usual. I really can’t be arsed with your bullshit identity politics. So piss off, eh?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 7, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The only person bringing race into this is you as fucking usual. I really can’t be arsed with your bullshit identity politics. So piss of, eh?



As usual, you actually don't understand the implications of what you post do you?

Your own identity politics are laid bare, repeatedly, and have subtexts that you clearly haven't ever thought about, understand, or are too 'prole' and 'patriotic' to admit. Have a word. 

I've never done anything you've suggested so won't start now. Thanks though.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 7, 2019)

I can’t make a single Point without you telling me what I really mean is the white working class (ergo, I’m a racist really).
I’m talking about how the left alienates itself from people. And then you prove my point. By telling me what I really mean and that I’m a racist but I just can’t see it?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 7, 2019)

Just Fuck off.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 7, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I can’t make a single Point without you telling me what I really mean is the white working class (ergo, I’m a racist really).
> I’m talking about how the left alienates itself from people. And then you prove my point. By telling me what I really mean and that I’m a racist but I just can’t see it?




I would have no hesitation in calling you a racist if that is what I thought so just get stuffed with this really pathetic tantruming you do when shit is pointed out to you. 

It won't stop me from saying what I think about your _id-prole_, class policing, 'patriot underdog' nonsense either. I love see more and more how 'you are calling me a racist/don't call me a racist' has become the response of choice for anyone being encouraged to thinking about these things a bit more deeply.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 7, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Just Fuck off.


Pour yourself another large one.


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 8, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So a prole who gets off on their national side is just a cunt? Out of touch much?


No problem with people following their national team (though it's got to be club before national team every time). That's not patriotism unless someone wants to make it patriotic. So a prole who uses the fortunes of their team for the patriotic fervour is, at best, a div. But may well be a cunt. Wised up much?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 8, 2019)

since when is "working class" synonymous with "patriotic" or with overt displays of nationalism? 
Its not -  anymore than its synonymous with "supports brexit". Or "white". Or male. or manual labourer.  Its reducing a great mass of people to a narrow, divisive stereotype with fixed views that "the left" have to somehow defer too cos ... well .. why exactly?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 8, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> As usual, you actually don't understand the implications of what you post do you?
> 
> Your own identity politics are laid bare, repeatedly, and have subtexts that you clearly haven't ever thought about, understand, or are too 'prole' and 'patriotic' to admit. Have a word.



Do you ponder how much of a patronising and sneering you cunt you sound or are you too busy understanding my mind and words better than I can to realise you’re doing it?


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 8, 2019)

ETA: ach, what's the fucking point?


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 8, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Does national identity equal patriotism? I'm not so sure


Thats an interesting question tbf. I think its possible to be anti fascist and patriotic as well.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 8, 2019)

More 'Free Tommy' protest in London on Saturday 24 August, this time at multiple locations across the city.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 8, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not sure I agree with this and most of the left don’t either given they celebrate the patriotism of the underdog.
> In a UK context there’s plenty who see national identity as part of who they are who aren’t necessarily bigots. The left alienates itself by dismissing all those people (especially when alongside championing ‘correct’ patriotism’).


Why don't you agree with it? I know people can identify with a particular nationality without automatically being a bigot, but the very logic of nationalism is what creates bigotry. I'm also not convinced that supporting 'oppressed nations' is a way of building working class power.


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 8, 2019)

Bottom line is class or nation. The two have to be seen as polar opposites by the majority of people if we ever want to have something better than the shit system we live under now.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 8, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> Bottom line is class or nation. The two have to be seen as polar opposites by the majority of people if we ever want to have something better than the shit system we live under now.


Cart before horse. Build on class grounds not nation and attack chauvinism but shut the fuck up about working class people who identify with nationhood. Class over nation will become apparent through political & social change and struggle. Imo.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 8, 2019)

It's about getting people ready not making them pure. Surely.


----------



## 19force8 (Aug 8, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Thats an interesting question tbf. I think its possible to be anti fascist and patriotic as well.


Well it's possible to be anti-fascist and racist* so I don't see why not.

* From personal experience - in the 80s I worked with an old guy whose brother had been killed in a Japanese PoW camp. He was virulently anti-Japanese and anti-German, ex-CP and serious anti-fascist. Did my head in.


----------



## 19force8 (Aug 8, 2019)

jimmer said:


> I'm also not convinced that supporting 'oppressed nations' is a way of building working class power.


This goes back to Marx and Engels arguments in the first International:


> It is, therefore, the task of the “International” to bring the conflict between England and Ireland to the forefront everywhere, and to side with Ireland publicly everywhere. The special task of the Central Council in London is to awaken the consciousness of the English working class that, *for them, the national emancipation of Ireland* is not a question of abstract justice or humanitarian sentiment, but *the first condition of their own social emancipation*.


In other words if the working class acquiesces in their rulers' oppression of another nation they strengthen their rulers' power over themselves.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 9, 2019)

It looks like there will be counter-protests to the next Free Tommy demos in London on Saturday 24 August.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 9, 2019)

19force8 said:


> In other words if the working class acquiesces in their rulers' oppression of another nation they strengthen their rulers' power over themselves.


I think that's a good point, but I don't see how it makes supporting 'oppressed' nationalism progressive. It's just saying it's in all of our interest for us to be opposed to oppression.


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 9, 2019)

I like how this thread hasn't in any way descended into a row. Good job Urbz, good job.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> I like how this thread hasn't in any way descended into a row. Good job Urbz, good job.


A sad instance of the decline of urban


----------



## friedaweed (Aug 9, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> I like how this thread hasn't in any way descended into a row. Good job Urbz, good job.


Everyone's on forced ignore T


----------



## Patteran (Aug 9, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Thats an interesting question tbf. I think its possible to be anti fascist and patriotic as well.



I dunno - I think there's a difference between 'anti-fascist' & 'being against fascists' - we use anti-fascism as an aspect of a wider communist or anarchist class analysis, no? In 80s & 90s encounters, 'I'm not a fascist I'm a patriot' was trotted out so regularly by under-pressure wrong 'uns that it became a standing joke, a parodied cliche. Patriotism is reactionary by definition. It's woo, designed to maintain & obscure. National identity/identification is material - birth certificates, access to services, obligations to taxes, vulnerability to laws & prisons. This shared set of obligations, exposures, vulnerabilities should be starting points for commonality, for solidarity even. There's obviously right & wrong ways of going about it, but we can't swerve the superstitious dishonesty of patriotism, & saying this, acting on this, is hardly the preserve of possibly made-up middle class lefties - it's one of James Connolly's favourite themes.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 9, 2019)

But there’s people who see themselves in terms of a National identity who aren’t patriots in the political sense. For some of those _becoming_ political, the far right have a ready made narrative that may attract them that direction as opposed to eg Rutita’s sneering that will almost certainly repel them.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 9, 2019)

When ‘Robinson’ had 1,000,000 + followers on social media and left equivalents have between 1 and 10% of that, we can’t just keep banging the same drum as if it’s all fine.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But there’s people who see themselves in terms of a National identity who aren’t patriots in the political sense. For some of those _becoming_ political, the far right have a ready made narrative that may attract them that direction as opposed to eg Rutita’s sneering that will almost certainly repel them.



Oh go away ffs. 

Challenging your nonsense is't sneering, nor is it causing the 'right' to swell it ranks.  You may want to look a bit closer to home for that mate. All this 'The left are this and that' using definitions that would cover the likes of Thomas Mair isn't cute. You talk of solidarity and offer none. Your constant class policing and pretense of being a WC hero is all levels of silly. Stop talking the walk, it's dull as fuck.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 9, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> Oh go away ffs.
> 
> Challenging your nonsense is't sneering, nor is it causing the 'right' to swell it ranks.  You may want to look a bit closer to home for that mate. All this 'The left are this and that' using definitions that would cover the likes of Thomas Mair isn't cute. You talk of solidarity and offer none. Your constant class policing and pretense of being a WC hero is all levels of silly.



I’m not class policing here or pretending to be a hero. I’m wanting to broaden the discussion. Shibboleths aren’t always conducive for moving forward.


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> When ‘Robinson’ had 1,000,000 + followers on social media and left equivalents have between 1 and 10% of that, we can’t just keep banging the same drum as if it’s all fine.


What drum is that then?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not class policing here or pretending to be a hero. I’m wanting to broaden the discussion. Shibboleths aren’t always conducive for moving forward.



You actually do little else lately. The bookfair thread is a prime example of that. Maybe broaden the discussion by focusing on what you do, can do, want to do, think could be done instead of the constant finger pointing, telling everyone else they are wrong people, doing the wrong thing etc.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 9, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> What drum is that then?



Well, everything that people are banging on about that isn’t working. Not sure if you see this yourself but a lot of the left looks simply alien to a lot of people. What’s with smoke grenades on demos?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 9, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> You actually do little else lately. The bookfair thread is a prime example of that. Maybe broaden the discussion by focusing on what you do, can do, want to do, think could be done instead of the constant finger pointing, telling everyone else they are wrong people, doing the wrong thing etc.



I’m discussing concepts. You make it personal.


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## Serge Forward (Aug 9, 2019)

The left is alien... and often rightly so. But so is the idea of class struggle to most people (except the rich of course... funnily enough they're totally on the ball). The fact that class struggle is alien doesn't mean we have to throw in our lot with all sorts of patriotic or nationalist nonsense. No good will ever come from that.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m discussing concepts. You make it personal.



Some concepts are personal. I didn't make the world that way. The concepts that are personal to you are not invisible, nor are the ones that are personal to me. The difference is I am much more comfortable in speaking about them than you are...You hate it when I point that out. Some things you clearly haven't thought about and don't see the connection between. 

It's ridiculous. Why did you even refer to me this evening? You just seem so desperate for my attention and to make me personally responsible for stuff that is beyond both of us or the responsibility of both of us.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 9, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> The left is alien... and often rightly so. But so is the idea of class struggle to most people (except the rich of course... funnily enough they're totally on the ball). The fact that class struggle is alien doesn't mean we have to throw in our lot with all sorts of patriotic or nationalist nonsense. No good will ever come from that.



I’ll almost certainly agree with the points you make. But I’m sure you’ll agree that what is needed to be done is to build class power. And some of those people we need on board will think in ways we may not like (although I’m talking about how a lot of people see themselves in terms of national identiy, not Thomas Mair as Rutita is pathetically trying to make out). Fuck me, if all we want are unreconstructed libertarian communist purists then we may as well pack up now and leave the earth for the fascists.


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## Serge Forward (Aug 9, 2019)

I'm not interested in unreconstituted libertarian communist purists either but class power isn't built out of a politics based on uniting the nation or seeing commonality with our "betters". Class power won't come about through what you or I do (or those on the left, for that matter). It'll only happen when people start fighting for themselves on a far wider scale than happens now. I'm not holding my breath but neither am I totally pessimistic. In the meantime, I won't be shifting from my usual "fuck national identity" position.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 9, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> I'm not interested in unreconstituted libertarian communist purists either but class power isn't built out of a politics based on uniting the nation or seeing commonality with our "betters". Class power won't come about through what you or I do (or those on the left, for that matter). It'll only happen when people start fighting for themselves on a far wider scale than happens now. I'm not holding my breath but neither am I totally pessimistic. In the meantime, I won't be shifting from my usual "fuck national identity" position.



Great. Well you’ve alienated yourself from a lot of potential allies. The Monarchy knows how this works and it keeps them afloat. In the meantime, the London radical left mostly attracts graduates.


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Great. Well you’ve alienated yourself from a lot of potential allies. The Monarchy knows how this works and it keeps them afloat. In the meantime, the London radical left mostly attracts graduates.


So would you go pro-royals so not to alienate potential allies? Would you "go religious" so as not to alienate other potential allies? I agree about the radical left, London or elsewhere. That doesn't mean you have to cede the territory to them. I do talk to people who say they're patriotic quite a lot. I also tell them they're talking out their arse. So far, it's not been a problem and I doubt I've alienated... er... many 
 I'm still not sure what you suggest we do Magnus... go all patriotic???


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 9, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> So would you go pro-royals so not to alienate potential allies? Would you "go religious" so as not to alienate other potential allies? I agree about the radical left, London or elsewhere. That doesn't mean you have to cede the territory to them. I do talk to people who say they're patriotic quite a lot. I also tell them they're talking out their arse. So far, it's not been a problem and I doubt I've alienated... er... many
> I'm still not sure what you suggest we do Magnus... go all patriotic???



I’m not suggesting that, just not cunting off those (there’s a lot of em) by having a ‘Position’ that alienates those that are needed onside to build class power.
It is similar to religion in that respect actually but less so nowadays.


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 9, 2019)

Give over. Someone talks shite, you say summat, preferably politely, but if they get moody, "cunt them off".


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 9, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> Give over. Someone talks shite, you say summat, preferably politely, but if they get moody, "cunt them off".



Are we following the class then, or leading them? I assume your position not to be the latter but it doesn’t sound like it.


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 9, 2019)

Not following and not leading but certainly challenging deluded bullshit. There is no real workers' movement so all we can do is try to encourage things in that direction and push class struggle ideas in our communities and workplaces as and when... not pander to shit ideas because we don't want to scare the horses.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 9, 2019)

Fair enough. I’m arguing that position and the current failure you mention are connected. You don’t have to agree.


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 9, 2019)

I don't agree. It's like you're blaming the left for their alienation from the class. And while that's true to a degree, it gives the powerless left far too much credit - implies clout they haven't had for 40 years. The reason for mass de-politicisation and demobilisation have little to do with the failings of the left (outside of the Labour Party). It goes far beyond the shenannigans of lefty politicos.


----------



## Patteran (Aug 9, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But there’s people who see themselves in terms of a National identity who aren’t patriots in the political sense. For some of those _becoming_ political, the far right have a ready made narrative that may attract them that direction as opposed to eg Rutita’s sneering that will almost certainly repel them.



I think Proper Tidy had it right - start with actual sites of struggle & potential improvement, get round to notions of nations if/when it's appropriate. It's just common sense, isnt it? Someone turns up in an England shirt - fine. They insist the event begins with a rousing chorus of rule britannia - not fine. I also agree with Serge Forward & think attempts to articulate a progressive nationalism are wrong, especially in this contemporary British context. Blue Labour/Billy Bragg/John Harris seem to run a piece in the guardian annually about 'celebrate the englishness of the levellers & queuing'. If people want nationalism, they want it full-throated, erect, & the right will always do it better, more convincingly. The answer is to direct their attention & hopefully eventual support to initiatives, struggles that actually bear fruit - that provide material gains rather than a vague buzz of belonging. A tenants' group that successfully caps rents or prevents evictions, a kids' sports team that wins smiles, a union that improves pay & conditions - that's the counter offer, no?


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 10, 2019)

Bang on.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 10, 2019)

Patteran said:


> I dunno - I think there's a difference between 'anti-fascist' & 'being against fascists' - we use anti-fascism as an aspect of a wider communist or anarchist class analysis, no? In 80s & 90s encounters, 'I'm not a fascist I'm a patriot' was trotted out so regularly by under-pressure wrong 'uns that it became a standing joke, a parodied cliche. Patriotism is reactionary by definition. It's woo, designed to maintain & obscure. National identity/identification is material - birth certificates, access to services, obligations to taxes, vulnerability to laws & prisons. This shared set of obligations, exposures, vulnerabilities should be starting points for commonality, for solidarity even. There's obviously right & wrong ways of going about it, but we can't swerve the superstitious dishonesty of patriotism, & saying this, acting on this, is hardly the preserve of possibly made-up middle class lefties - it's one of James Connolly's favourite themes.


Whilst I am in favour of working class /communist anti fascism I suppose what I was trying to unravel is the idea that anti fascism in its self has to be left wing or that anti fascists have to be left wing.


----------



## MrSki (Aug 10, 2019)

Have we had this yet?

ETA I think it might be fake cos I cannot find another report of it.


----------



## Patteran (Aug 10, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Whilst I am in favour of working class /communist anti fascism I suppose what I was trying to unravel is the idea that anti fascism in its self has to be left wing or that anti fascists have to be left wing.



I think so, yes - the distinction between _anti-fascist_ & _against fascists_ or _not-fascist_ is useful. There's qualitative differences between, say, the POUM & the British 8th Army, between a militant anti-fascist turn out & the metropolitan police. Tommy Robinson getting nicked is not anti-fascism. The US military & Tito's partisans were fighting the same enemy but for different reasons, for different outcomes - can an action be considered anti-fascist when it's ordered by a class who maintain racialised segregation at home? To me, no, it can't - & this elision of anti-fascist & not-fascist has been used in both the US & Britain since WW2 ideologically, to disguise culpability for imperialism/aggression abroad & inequality at home. Maybe it's the outcome, the alternative, that's important - if you're fighting fascists & offering no alternative but the status quo, then all you'll get is more fascists as the conditions that make their approach attractive remain unchallenged. And we're back at 'Filling the Vacuum'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2019)

Patteran said:


> I think so, yes - the distinction between _anti-fascist_ & _against fascists_ or _not-fascist_ is useful. There's qualitative differences between, say, the POUM & the British 8th Army, between a militant anti-fascist turn out & the metropolitan police. Tommy Robinson getting nicked is not anti-fascism. The US military & Tito's partisans were fighting the same enemy but for different reasons, for different outcomes - can an action be considered anti-fascist when it's ordered by a class who maintain racialised segregation at home? To me, no, it can't - & this elision of anti-fascist & not-fascist has been used in both the US & Britain since WW2 ideologically, to disguise culpability for imperialism/aggression abroad & inequality at home. Maybe it's the outcome, the alternative, that's important - if you're fighting fascists & offering no alternative but the status quo, then all you'll get is more fascists as the conditions that make their approach attractive remain unchallenged. And we're back at 'Filling the Vacuum'.


Racialised segregation not only at home but in the US army here


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## The39thStep (Aug 10, 2019)

Patteran said:


> I think so, yes - the distinction between _anti-fascist_ & _against fascists_ or _not-fascist_ is useful. There's qualitative differences between, say, the POUM & the British 8th Army, between a militant anti-fascist turn out & the metropolitan police. Tommy Robinson getting nicked is not anti-fascism. The US military & Tito's partisans were fighting the same enemy but for different reasons, for different outcomes - can an action be considered anti-fascist when it's ordered by a class who maintain racialised segregation at home? To me, no, it can't - & this elision of anti-fascist & not-fascist has been used in both the US & Britain since WW2 ideologically, to disguise culpability for imperialism/aggression abroad & inequality at home. Maybe it's the outcome, the alternative, that's important - if you're fighting fascists & offering no alternative but the status quo, then all you'll get is more fascists as the conditions that make their approach attractive remain unchallenged. And we're back at 'Filling the Vacuum'.


Thanks .Re the first 2/3 rds  I was thinking more though in terms of activity on the ground rather than state sponsored anti fascism. I've known and come across people involved in anti fascist activity who have had all sorts of oddball politics and views tbh which I wouldnt necesarily describe as being on the left, but theyve been prepared to get stuck in. The last part of your post I feel  is important , a lot  of the anti fascist scene dont concretly offer an alternative within working class communities .Sure they make an offer to a certain sort of activist or milieu but not to those communities themselves .Which I suppose was the whole point of Filling the Vacuum.


----------



## GarveyLives (Aug 10, 2019)

> _"I think the hardest thing for him will be scoring coke in prison."_





> _"Fat chance. He'll get a *hero's welcome* and be treated as one of the 'lads'."_





GarveyLives said:


> As at the end of March 2018, just over a quarter of the UK prison population (_26%_) was from a _non-white ethnic group_; _Muslim_ prisoners accounted for _15%_ of the prison population (Source: House of Commons Library Briefing Paper Number CBP-04334, 23 July 2018, "UK Prison Population Statistics"). (Figures not split by gender).
> 
> Is is dificult to see how any / many of these inmates will regard Mr *Stephen Christopher Yaxley-Lennon* as a "hero" to _them_.



And now:

Jailed EDL founder Tommy Robinson is _'in solitary confinement at Belmarsh amid fears Muslim prison gangs will target him'_ after losing 40lbs 'through starvation' during first stint in prison


----------



## not a trot (Aug 10, 2019)

GarveyLives said:


> And now:
> 
> Jailed EDL founder Tommy Robinson is _'in solitary confinement at Belmarsh amid fears Muslim prison gangs will target him'_ after losing 40lbs 'through starvation' during first stint in prison



Does that mean weight watchers will now be sponsoring the cunt.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 10, 2019)

I'm wary of where press get this 'in solitary to avoid muslims' thing from. Maybe it's true but maybe it isn't and it defo suits his narrative of white crusader in a liberal democracy so wedded to multiculturalism that it can't or won't recognise the danger of the enemy within


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 10, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I'm wary of where press get this 'in solitary to avoid muslims' thing from. Maybe it's true but maybe it isn't and it defo suits his narrative of white crusader in a liberal democracy so wedded to multiculturalism that it can't or won't recognise the danger of the enemy within


The Mail got it from the US Spectator, who got it from Ezra Levant, the owner of Rebel Media. So fash repeats fash repeats fash. Not 100% sure of the reliability personally either.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2019)

not a trot said:


> Does that mean weight watchers will now be sponsoring the cunt.


It means his long-suffering followers will be asked to fill syl's bank account again so he can stuff his face on their dime to regain his weight


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 10, 2019)

the Sun of all paper reporting it is  fake news about the solidary confinment spread by his right wing supportors


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’ll almost certainly agree with the points you make. But I’m sure you’ll agree that what is needed to be done is to build class power. And some of those people we need on board will think in ways we may not like (although I’m talking about how a lot of people see themselves in terms of national identiy, not Thomas Mair as Rutita is pathetically trying to make out). Fuck me, if all we want are unreconstructed libertarian communist purists then we may as well pack up now and leave the earth for the fascists.



What is pathetic is that you can't even see how the likes of Thomas Mair fit your 'patriot underdog' description/nonsense.  But you carry on blaming me eh.


----------



## Ranbay (Aug 10, 2019)




----------



## tonysingh (Aug 10, 2019)

Ranbay said:


> View attachment 180422



Satire. 


Though obviously I hope it's true


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Aug 10, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> Satire.
> 
> 
> Though obviously I hope it's true



There is a Conrad Duncan who works for the Independent - this looks like Independent style, but can't find anything like it on the Independent website


----------



## tonysingh (Aug 10, 2019)

Puddy_Tat said:


> There is a Conrad Duncan who works for the Independent - this looks like Independent style, but can't find anything like it on the Independent website



I was going on the assumption that this is too good to be true.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 11, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Whilst I am in favour of working class /communist anti fascism I suppose what I was trying to unravel is the idea that anti fascism in its self has to be left wing or that anti fascists have to be left wing.



I don’t think the 42 Group were in any way left wing.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 11, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I don’t think the 42 Group were in any way left wing.


Good example. I dunno though, what's left wing. They def weren't marxist, many were zionist, and a lot went to Palestine to fight, although most would have been labour voters in that period I'd imagine, whatever that counts for. They were a working class self defence organisation.


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 11, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I don’t think the 42 Group were in any way left wing.



They weren't the answer to anything it turned out.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 11, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> They weren't the answer to anything it turned out.


Were they not?


----------



## Red Sky (Aug 11, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Were they not?



Not Life , the Universe or Anything.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 11, 2019)

(also 43 group obviously)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 11, 2019)

43 Group surely?


----------



## Patteran (Aug 11, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I don’t think the 42 Group were in any way left wing.



That is a very good counter example. Although not explicitly leftist, they weren't prepared to accept the status quo, or demand the state intervene. I dunno. I was lucky enough to meet Beckman a few times through London AFA, & I certainly wouldn't have challenged his anti-fascist credentials. 'Actually, Morris, & this is more of a comment than a question, but without a class analysis...'

ETA Proper Tidy has said the same sort of thing while I was replying


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 11, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Not Life , the Universe or Anything.


Their aim was to extinguish a revived fascist street movement (in form of Mosley's Union Movement and british league of ex servicemen) which despite misconception was a powerful force in post war years. They succeeded and took far right until 70s to regroup into any sort of organised threat (although probably for a range of reasons, but still). One of the more successful UK antifascist groups I would have thought


----------



## Serge Forward (Aug 11, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Good example. I dunno though, what's left wing. They def weren't marxist, many were zionist, and a lot went to Palestine to fight, although most would have been labour voters in that period I'd imagine, whatever that counts for. They were a working class self defence organisation.


There were (and still are) left zionists.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 11, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> There were (and still are) left zionists.


I dunno, not sure it's fair to politically characterise them like that really. They were a jewish w/c defence org, you're probably right that the majority stance was left zionism but there was no political test or key principles members had to subscribe to (afaik anyway)


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 11, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> 43 Group surely?





Proper Tidy said:


> (also 43 group obviously)


Yeah, sorry, mistyped on my tablet.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 11, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Their aim was to extinguish a revived fascist street movement (in form of Mosley's Union Movement and british league of ex servicemen) which despite misconception was a powerful force in post war years. They succeeded and took far right until 70s to regroup into any sort of organised threat (although probably for a range of reasons, but still). One of the more successful UK antifascist groups I would have thought



It was a reference to The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 11, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It was a reference to The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy


I know I got that bit but the first post (they werent the answer to anything) deserved a reply imo (I know 43 is a reference too, maybe I read too much into it)


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 12, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Good example. I dunno though, what's left wing. They def weren't marxist, many were zionist, and a lot went to Palestine to fight, although most would have been labour voters in that period I'd imagine, whatever that counts for. They were a working class self defence organisation.


and arguably some could have been described as patriotic


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## jimmer (Aug 12, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> and arguably some could have been described as patriotic


How would you say Israeli nationalism has turned out?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Their aim was to extinguish a revived fascist street movement (in form of Mosley's Union Movement and british league of ex servicemen) which despite misconception was a powerful force in post war years. They succeeded and took far right until 70s to regroup into any sort of organised threat (although probably for a range of reasons, but still). One of the more successful UK antifascist groups I would have thought


have you heard of the 62 group?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 12, 2019)

Proper Tidy 


the 43 group, for all their merits and strengths, simply didn't prevent a resurgence of fascism as you suggest ('took far right until 1970s to regroup into any sort of organised threat').


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 12, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Proper Tidy
> View attachment 180589
> 
> the 43 group, for all their merits and strengths, simply didn't prevent a resurgence of fascism as you suggest ('took far right until 1970s to regroup into any sort of organised threat').


Yeah fair


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 12, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> What is pathetic is that you can't even see how the likes of Thomas Mair fit your 'patriot underdog' description/nonsense.  But you carry on blaming me eh.



My heart sinks at the thought of continuing this line of discussion with you but by me saying ‘patriotic’ you’ve immediately decided that I definitely mean white English patriotism and in a political sense, rather than, you know, millions of others who aren’t that.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 13, 2019)

jimmer said:


> How would you say Israeli nationalism has turned out?


Whats that got to do with my comment re the 43 group?


----------



## TopCat (Aug 13, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well, everything that people are banging on about that isn’t working. Not sure if you see this yourself but a lot of the left looks simply alien to a lot of people. What’s with smoke grenades on demos?


Chanting Italian slogans. Looked daft last week. Save yet breath for fighting. Smoke is good to confuse and obscure but is stupid otherwise.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Chanting Italian slogans. Looked daft last week. Save yet breath for fighting. Smoke is good to confuse and obscure but is stupid otherwise.


a lot of what happens on demos puts me off, let alone people who've never been involved


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## TopCat (Aug 13, 2019)

I know lots of people who are Labour voters, respect the Queen, and are hugely proud of their/our Grandads who shot facists. 

People who battered the BNP when they tried to sell Spearhead down the Old Den. 

Are we prepared to attract them into the fight? What compromises might this require?

If we don't bring them in, what do we do instead?


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## Serge Forward (Aug 13, 2019)

TopCat said:


> I know lots of people who are Labour voters, respect the Queen, and are hugely proud of their/our Grandads who shot facists.
> 
> People who battered the BNP when they tried to sell Spearhead down the Old Den.
> 
> ...


No problem with that, but we don't have to be soft on nationalism ourselves as part of the bargain (I may be mistaken but Magnus McGinty seems to be suggesting it's alienating if we don't go all 'soft nationalist').


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 13, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> No problem with that, but we don't have to be soft on nationalism ourselves as part of the bargain (I may be mistaken but Magnus McGinty seems to be suggesting it's alienating if we don't go all 'soft nationalist').



I think some forget that anti fascism isn’t communism. It really doesn’t want to be a niche in the same way the far left is.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2019)

TopCat said:


> I know lots of people who are Labour voters, respect the Queen, and are hugely proud of their/our Grandads who shot facists.
> 
> People who battered the BNP when they tried to sell Spearhead down the Old Den.
> 
> ...


might as well go home and give up, if it's necessary that everyone must have grand politics by our standards

one of the tv programmes about afa mentioned they had a lib dem activist in, iirc, leeds. i'm not so fussed about people's politics, in anti-fascism, as long as they're er anti-fascist. other things, they can get worked on later.


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## Red Sky (Aug 13, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> might as well go home and give up, if it's necessary that everyone must have grand politics by our standards
> 
> one of the tv programmes about afa mentioned they had a lib dem activist in, iirc, leeds. i'm not so fussed about people's politics, in anti-fascism, as long as they're er anti-fascist. other things, they can get worked on later.



Always said I'd rather work with a Lib Dem who can read a map and throw a punch over any number of ultra leftists who can barely tie their own shoe laces.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Always said I'd rather work with a Lib Dem who can read a map and throw a punch over any number of ultra leftists who can barely tie their own shoe laces.


i always wondered why the chelsea boot was so popular in those circles


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## klang (Aug 13, 2019)




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## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2019)

littleseb said:


>


yeh afa have left big shoes to fill


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## Red Sky (Aug 13, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I think some forget that anti fascism isn’t communism. It really doesn’t want to be a niche in the same way the far left is.



It's worse than that even . London Anti Fascist Assembly (the latest whizz bang scheme) spent the run up to the Tommy thing tweeting about TERFS and Extinction Rebellion.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> It's worse than that even . London Anti Fascist Assembly (the latest whizz bang scheme) spent the run up to the Tommy thing tweeting about TERFS and Extinction Rebellion.


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## klang (Aug 13, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh afa have left big shoes to fill


they won wars in lace less sandals....


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## Serge Forward (Aug 13, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> It's worse than that even . London Anti Fascist Assembly (the latest whizz bang scheme) spent the run up to the Tommy thing tweeting about TERFS and Extinction Rebellion.


Which is, of course, fucking mental. Magnus McGinty, no one's saying anti-fascism should be niche and maybe we're talking at cross purposes here. But there's a difference between working with people you might not agree with and signing up to views of those people because it makes you "fit in" more.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 13, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> Which is, of course, fucking mental. Magnus McGinty, no one's saying anti-fascism should be niche and maybe we're talking at cross purposes here. But there's a difference between working with people you might not agree with and signing up to views of those people because it makes you "fit in" more.



The best I can explain it is like trades unionism. Everyone joins for a common goal (protect jobs, collectively bargain for pay and conditions) but not everyone has to fit a particular mould of what a trade unionist must look like. 
As mentioned above there's some supposed anti fascists who are pushing it towards being a niche when actually the direction of travel should be opposite direction.


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## LDC (Aug 13, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> It's worse than that even . London Anti Fascist Assembly (the latest whizz bang scheme) spent the run up to the Tommy thing tweeting about TERFS and Extinction Rebellion.



Pretty common position among that lot and their fellow travelers is that 'TERFs' _are_ actual Nazis or at least are similar enough to be considered on the same page politically. We live in fucked up times...


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## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2019)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Pretty common position among that lot and their fellow travelers is that 'TERFs' _are_ actual Nazis or at least are similar enough to be considered on the same page politically. We live in fucked up times...


 there's a load of shite terfs and _their_ fellow travellers have to say which is equally vile


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## Red Sky (Aug 13, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> there's a load of shite terfs and _their_ fellow travellers have to say which is equally vile



It was more a cry of "concentrate on the fucking job in hand" than me taking a position on that particular can of worms. 

They were lecturing XR (along with Freedom, Green Anticapitalist Front, Libcom etc etc) on the need for adequate arrest and prisoner support, which in my experience is pretty patchy amongst anti fascists.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> It was more a cry of "concentrate on the fucking job in hand" than me taking a position on that particular can of worms.
> 
> They were lecturing XR (along with Freedom, Green Anticapitalist Front, Libcom etc etc) on the need for adequate arrest and prisoner support, which in my experience is pretty patchy amongst anti fascists.


yeh, i don't want to see this thread go the way of so many others. following the welling incident of 2009 i think all the defendants and those convicted received considerable support, but i'm not sure how other prisoners have fared.


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## SpineyNorman (Aug 13, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The best I can explain it is like trades unionism. Everyone joins for a common goal (protect jobs, collectively bargain for pay and conditions) but not everyone has to fit a particular mould of what a trade unionist must look like.
> As mentioned above there's some supposed anti fascists who are pushing it towards being a niche when actually the direction of travel should be opposite direction.


Some trade unionists will only have trade union consciousness comrade, its not their fault.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 13, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> Some trade unionists will only have trade union consciousness comrade, its not their fault.



Not sure if you’re being sarky (Lenin?) but yeah, the union I’m in contains many people who aren’t asked for credentials on the door and are just members for the particular tasks that it performs.
Obviously being part of that can raise class consciousness amongst them as opposed to fucking them off at the entrance exam of leftist shibboleths.


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## SpineyNorman (Aug 13, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not sure if you’re being sarky but yeah, the union I’m in contains many people who aren’t asked for credentials on the door and are just members for the particular tasks that it performs.


I'm just fucking about mate, long boring day so I'm trying to amuse myself. Just reminded me a bit of lenins stuff on revolutionary and trade union consciousness.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 13, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> I'm just fucking about mate, long boring day so I'm trying to amuse myself. Just reminded me a bit of lenins stuff on revolutionary and trade union consciousness.



I’m not a Leninist!  (I saw what you were getting at in my edit).


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## M Testa (Aug 13, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I don’t think the 42 Group were in any way left wing.


 do you mean the 43 group? morris beckman et al.? members of the CP were involved in it, as were non-jewish east-end antifascists.


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## Red Sky (Aug 13, 2019)

It's alright they've stopped talking about TERFs


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 13, 2019)

M Testa said:


> do you mean the 43 group? morris beckman et al.? members of the CP were involved in it, as were non-jewish east-end antifascists.



And their most famous member certainly went on to be a living example of socialist ideals. Come on, let’s stop pretending it was some communist org.


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## M Testa (Aug 13, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> have you heard of the 62 group?



not much stuff was written about the 62 group although chapter 5 in Hann's Physical Resistance and some stuff i got from searchlight I tried to include in the Militant AF book. Sometimes tracing clandestine militancy depends on very little evidence or personal material, for obvious reasons, and retelling of retellings.


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## M Testa (Aug 13, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And their most famous member certainly went on to be a living example of socialist ideals. Come on, let’s stop pretending it was some communist org.


i didn't say it was, the CP had a 'unit' in the 43 group and local socialists etc were involved and i think with local militant activity there is a cross over based on community rather than strict party lines. i dont know what your 1st point refers to, sorry.


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## Red Sky (Aug 13, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And their most famous member certainly went on to be a living example of socialist ideals. Come on, let’s stop pretending it was some communist org.



I really hope he asked some Mosleyite "Something for the weekend,sir?" before belting him with a halfbrick in a sock or whatever.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 13, 2019)

M Testa said:


> i didn't say it was, the CP had a 'unit' in the 43 group and local socialists etc were involved and i think with local militant activity there is a cross over based on community rather than strict party lines. i dont know what your 1st point refers to, sorry.



Well if it doesn’t refer to the world famous anti fascist and hairdressing Brand Vidal Sassoon I’d struggle to pinpoint it also. But that backs my earlier points rather than disprove them.


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## M Testa (Aug 13, 2019)

Oops! what a Nepis. i forgot about VS.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 13, 2019)

Simple mistake to make...


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## The39thStep (Aug 13, 2019)

Theres a new book on the 43 Group out in October published by Verso


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## The39thStep (Aug 13, 2019)

Article on 62 group

https://afaarchive.files.wordpress.com/2014/11/62_group.pdf


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## Proper Tidy (Aug 13, 2019)

Did the CPGB have a 'unit' in the 43, have never heard that, would also seem an odd fit with CP politics post war


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## M Testa (Aug 13, 2019)

i'm too tired now but i will find the quote. it's either somewhere in mine, hann's, beckman's or joe jacobs books.


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## Proper Tidy (Aug 13, 2019)

M Testa said:


> i'm too tired now but i will find the quote. it's either somewhere in mine, hann's, beckman's or joe jacobs books.


Hmm have read the Hann book once and Beckman's at least twice and out of the ghetto loads (cos it's ace) but not ringing any bells


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## belboid (Aug 13, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Did the CPGB have a 'unit' in the 43, have never heard that, would also seem an odd fit with CP politics post war


Don’t know whether they a unit, as opposed to some members, involved, but it would fit absolutely with their politics at the time.


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## Proper Tidy (Aug 13, 2019)

belboid said:


> Don’t know whether they a unit, as opposed to some members, involved, but it would fit absolutely with their politics at the time.


Not arguing but why do you think it would fit? This was period of Comintern's move away street stuff and to right (for want of better terms), CPGB's turn towards electoralism, a period when Moscow directed eg PCF towards broad front etc. I would have thought involvement in an a/f street group it didn't control would have been a terrible fit


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## belboid (Aug 13, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Not arguing but why do you think it would fit? This was period of Comintern's move away street stuff and to right (for want of better terms), CPGB's turn towards electoralism, a period when Moscow directed eg PCF towards broad front etc. I would have thought involvement in an a/f street group it didn't control would have been a terrible fit


It was very popular in the seat where they had to win, basically. They were also starting to adapt their position on Zionism, and were forced to be fairly militant.


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## The39thStep (Aug 13, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Did the CPGB have a 'unit' in the 43, have never heard that, would also seem an odd fit with CP politics post war



The CP official line was against direct action against the far right however in Rentons book, This Rough Game,   he alleges that CP members were involved in the discussions around the funding of the 43 Group and there was a party cell within it. Because of their official line the CP wouldnt come out and support the 43 Group publically but as far as I am aware took no action against their members  I think Beckman was quoted along the lines that they the 43 Group were independent but sometimes worked along side the CP but was worried about them trying to take them over.


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## belboid (Aug 13, 2019)

Members writing for the 43 group paper according to this

From anti-fascist war to Cold War | Steve Silver


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## Proper Tidy (Aug 13, 2019)

Well fuck me, learn something new


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## The39thStep (Aug 14, 2019)

belboid said:


> Members writing for the 43 group paper according to this
> 
> From anti-fascist war to Cold War | Steve Silver


It would be interesting to find out how the CP justified its juggling act between its national position and the 43 group.


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## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2019)




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## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2019)

Chapter one of British Communism and the Politics of Race goes into this - if i remember right it was as simple as glorifying a fake pic of cable street as the key to building a mass movement concerned not just with 'race', but then v diff on the local level - much as Joe Jacobs recounts happening in the 30s in the lead up to Cable street.


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## Proper Tidy (Aug 14, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Chapter one of British Communism and the Politics of Race goes into this - if i remember right it was as simple as glorifying a fake pic of cable street as the key to building a mass movement concerned not just with 'race', but then v diff on the local level - much as Joe Jacobs recounts happening in the 30s in the lead up to Cable street.


Great stuff, haven't read this one yet


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## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Great stuff, haven't read this one yet


Sadly, it's pretty shit - it's an explicitly 'intersectionalist' look at this history and reads a bit like a woke-whig.


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## The39thStep (Aug 14, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> Sadly, it's pretty shit - it's an explicitly 'intersectionalist' look at this history and reads a bit like a woke-whig.


Isnt the author some sort of Trot?


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## butchersapron (Aug 14, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Isnt the author some sort of Trot?


He's an academic in australia who seems very focused on the CPGB rather than trotskysism - has a book on the History of No Platform in the NUS/CPGB/etc coming out - or was supposed to have been coming out for some time. Doesn't look to have ever been active in any orgs.


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## Proper Tidy (Aug 14, 2019)

His blog is often good value, the only book of his I read was against the grain which was ok (but really just a collection of essays by different people and no way I'd have paid the excessive hardback price of it)


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## The39thStep (Aug 14, 2019)

butchersapron said:


> He's an academic in australia who seems very focused on the CPGB rather than trotskysism - has a book on the History of No Platform in the NUS/CPGB/etc coming out - or was supposed to have been coming out for some time. Doesn't look to have ever been active in any orgs.


Sorry got him confused with Ewan Gibbs.  Yes I contributed something to his book on No Platform when he put a call out but god knows if he'll use it.


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 15, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The best I can explain it is like trades unionism. Everyone joins for a common goal (protect jobs, collectively bargain for pay and conditions) but not everyone has to fit a particular mould of what a trade unionist must look like.
> As mentioned above there's some supposed anti fascists who are pushing it towards being a niche when actually the direction of travel should be opposite direction.



Some of the people calling themselves anti-fascists currently, are of similar politics to the pissants who've spent decades condemning anti-fascists for violence. This is merely a pose for them.
I got roped into addressing an Extinction Rebellion meeting - about 60 people present - recently. The evening's subject was "non-violent direct action". I asked how many had been on a protest where the police had got a bit lairy, and half a dozen hands went up. I asked how many would fight back if the police came in batons swinging. No hands went up. My reply to this was "and that's why you won't get your demands met - you still believe that the Gandhi route will work, in this time and this place. When the state gets fed up treating you with kid gloves, they'll break your heads, and you'll sit there and take it, and let yourselves be beaten and arrested". I find it hard to comprehend just how strategically bereft XR are. They have good tactics, but their strategy is so narrow that it's easy to derail. My point here is that XR members tend to call themselves anti-fascist too, but seem to wage "struggle" purely on the verbal level.


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## Red Sky (Aug 15, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> Some of the people calling themselves anti-fascists currently, are of similar politics to the pissants who've spent decades condemning anti-fascists for violence. This is merely a pose for them.
> I got roped into addressing an Extinction Rebellion meeting - about 60 people present - recently. The evening's subject was "non-violent direct action". I asked how many had been on a protest where the police had got a bit lairy, and half a dozen hands went up. I asked how many would fight back if the police came in batons swinging. No hands went up. My reply to this was "and that's why you won't get your demands met - you still believe that the Gandhi route will work, in this time and this place. When the state gets fed up treating you with kid gloves, they'll break your heads, and you'll sit there and take it, and let yourselves be beaten and arrested". I find it hard to comprehend just how strategically bereft XR are. They have good tactics, but their strategy is so narrow that it's easy to derail. My point here is that XR members tend to call themselves anti-fascist too, but seem to wage "struggle" purely on the verbal level.



Have you come across XR referring to themselves as "anti fascists"? . 

My experience of them is that that struggle hasn't even registered with them. For most this is the first political thing they've ever done.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 15, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> Some of the people calling themselves anti-fascists currently, are of similar politics to the pissants who've spent decades condemning anti-fascists for violence. This is merely a pose for them.
> I got roped into addressing an Extinction Rebellion meeting - about 60 people present - recently. The evening's subject was "non-violent direct action". I asked how many had been on a protest where the police had got a bit lairy, and half a dozen hands went up. I asked how many would fight back if the police came in batons swinging. No hands went up. My reply to this was "and that's why you won't get your demands met - you still believe that the Gandhi route will work, in this time and this place. When the state gets fed up treating you with kid gloves, they'll break your heads, and you'll sit there and take it, and let yourselves be beaten and arrested". I find it hard to comprehend just how strategically bereft XR are. They have good tactics, but their strategy is so narrow that it's easy to derail. My point here is that XR members tend to call themselves anti-fascist too, but seem to wage "struggle" purely on the verbal level.



Not sure you were actually addressing my point which was more we should be drawing people in who are up for fighting fascists but don’t see themselves as communists and (gasp) may identify more with national identity over class, rather than working with every Tom, Dick and Hippy who are vaguely in the sphere.


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 17, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Have you come across XR referring to themselves as "anti fascists"? .



Some. Mostly the older ones, but even then you question what they mean, and it boils down to "I've been on HnH and UAF marches". The



> My experience of them is that that struggle hasn't even registered with them. For most this is the first political thing they've ever done.



I believe it has registered, but as some sort of idealised "march from A to B to stop fascism" crap.


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 17, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not sure you were actually addressing my point which was more we should be drawing people in who are up for fighting fascists but don’t see themselves as communists and (gasp) may identify more with national identity over class, rather than working with every Tom, Dick and Hippy who are vaguely in the sphere.



My point is that sadly the most politically-active group at the mo is a bunch of people who have got little clue. People who I'll work with on certain things, but who I wouldn't want beside me in physical force direct action because they think you can "work with" the state. 

Anti-fascism doesn't draw that many people in, even when it would benefit them, for the same reasons it never has: Many people abhor violence even as a last resort (foolishly, IMO); many people avoid confrontation; many people are atomised from ideas of collective action, and the benefits to their community. Lastly, many people suffer from the popular delusion that "someone else will fight the fight for me". 

As for national identity over class, I worked with many anti-Nazi skins in the '80s. Some people who lionise their British identity are fine, because they're clued up enough to understand that the nation is its people - all of them, not just the ones that sunburn easily. The people you want will rally to the cause when (not if) the time comes, just like they always have, but what you won't get is a movement in the way the term is currently understood. Movements can be suborned by wasters like the SWP, and members lose sight of their goals. Collective action through loose networks, on an as-needed basis has always worked better. 
And you know what? Most of those who'll take up the fight will be working class. Why? Because we have the lived experience to know what's necessary, and the will to do it unmediated by middle class ideas about correct behaviour. That's why I mentioned XR and their narrowly-defined behaviours - because they're thoroughly m/c, and will founder on those behaviours, regardless of the righteousness of their aims.

TLDR: Political purity is bollocks,


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 17, 2019)

Fair enough.


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## M Testa (Aug 17, 2019)

i think leftists call themselves anti-fascist as fascism is opposed to their own beliefs but are really confusing it with being anti-racist, a position rather than an active role in opposing the far right culturally, in media, in the community, on physical resistance etc. 
we are all fundamentally anti-racist but anti-fascism, for me, is contributing actively in whatever form or capacity you feel you can do.


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## Red Sky (Aug 17, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> My point is that sadly the most politically-active group at the mo is a bunch of people who have got little clue. People who I'll work with on certain things, but who I wouldn't want beside me in physical force direct action because they think you can "work with" the state.
> 
> Anti-fascism doesn't draw that many people in, even when it would benefit them, for the same reasons it never has: Many people abhor violence even as a last resort (foolishly, IMO); many people avoid confrontation; many people are atomised from ideas of collective action, and the benefits to their community. Lastly, many people suffer from the popular delusion that "someone else will fight the fight for me".
> 
> ...



XR is definitely not about "physical force direct action" nor does it pretend to be.

It's a bizarre and contradictory movement, currently quite middle class but not exclusively.  It is however pretty much the only movement tackling the most important issue of our times.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 17, 2019)

It’ll soon grow in popularity. And politics. In a decade or two.


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## Red Sky (Aug 17, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’ll soon grow in popularity. And politics. In a decade or two.



I think the point is we don't have a decade, let alone two.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 17, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> I think the point is we don't have a decade, let alone two.



Oh goody. It’ll happen sooner then.


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## Red Sky (Aug 17, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Oh goody. It’ll happen sooner then.



Armageddon?


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 17, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Armageddon?



It’s going to start adding pressure to various parts of ‘the system’ from here on in. 
I reckon the ruling class will start culling us to correct it rather than give up the system so it’ll be interesting given they need us for it to work.


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## Magnus McGinty (Aug 17, 2019)

Check mate. Without us doing anything. Which is helpful presently.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 19, 2019)

Anyone know what his court case in September is over?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2019)

sim667 said:


> Anyone know what his court case in September is over?


attacking a pensioner's fist?


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## sim667 (Aug 19, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> attacking a pensioner's fist?


Apparently tommy robinson could face a further custodial sentence, so I doubt its a to do with a pensioner, thats normally dealt with by the prison warden isn't it?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2019)

sim667 said:


> Apparently tommy robinson could face a further custodial sentence, so I doubt its a to do with a pensioner, thats normally dealt with by the prison warden isn't it?


i had a quick search but couldn't dig anything out 

Mr.Bishie jimmer 
can you shed any light on what tommy robinson might be up for in sept?


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## jimmer (Aug 19, 2019)

sim667 said:


> Anyone know what his court case in September is over?


The police are applying for him to be given a football banning order, presumably because he keeps getting into fights at Luton and England games.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2019)

jimmer said:


> The police are applying for him to be given a football banning order, presumably because he keeps getting into fights at Luton and England games.


cheers!


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## jimmer (Aug 19, 2019)

For some reason, a number of anti-fascist social media accounts seem to have been telling people the Free Tommy protests on Saturday (24 August) in central London have been cancelled — they haven't! A few weeks ago Richard Inman put a video out saying the plan was to do decentralised static protests all over central London. Then over the weekend Inman puts another video out saying SYL has decided from his prison cell to cancel the big rally they were going to have (which was never announced) but that people should still hold decentralised static protests all over central London and people should contact him/Tommy's team if they wanted to know where to hold them. He's just put out another video telling people to go to a protest outside the BBC at 1pm on Saturday, organised by a group called TRUE PATRIOTS and reiterating the call for decentralised protests. Basically, there are going to be SYL fans in small groups all over central London on Saturday, nothing which was going to happen has been cancelled.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 19, 2019)

jimmer said:


> For some reason, a number of anti-fascist social media accounts seem to have been telling people the Free Tommy protests on Saturday (24 August) in central London have been cancelled — they haven't! A few weeks ago Richard Inman put a video out saying the plan was to do decentralised static protests all over central London. Then over the weekend Inman puts another video out saying SYL has decided from his prison cell to cancel the big rally they were going to have (which was never announced) but that people should still hold decentralised static protests all over central London and people should contact him/Tommy's team if they wanted to know where to hold them. He's just put out another video telling people to go to a protest outside the BBC at 1pm on Saturday, organised by a group called TRUE PATRIOTS and reiterating the call for decentralised protests. Basically, there are going to be SYL fans in small groups all over central London on Saturday, nothing which was going to happen has been cancelled.


That sounds extremely similar to the last time where it was also said there were going to decentralised protests, but everyone just turned up at the BBC in the end. The "lack of organisation" factor mentioned before seems to be continuing.


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## The39thStep (Aug 19, 2019)

I think they are in disarray tbh . Danny Tommo is out of his depth , poor turnouts , the unity bid fell on deaf ears, the anti Islam/ pro Israel  issue( ie which issue makes the money) , loyalty to Tommy over Inmans ambition to build an anti Islam movement . It’s a confusing  fragile mess which they could well have issues sorting out even when SYL gets out . Inman posted up an interesting contribution last year to the future of the DFLA ( after their disappointing London demo ) which sets out his preferred direction .


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## jimmer (Aug 20, 2019)

The Morning Star and Stand Up to Racism don't want people to oppose the Tommy Robinson supporters on the streets on Saturday.

Fascists ‘in disarray’ after cancelling ‘Tommy Robinson’ demo


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## Pickman's model (Aug 20, 2019)

jimmer said:


> The Morning Star and Stand Up to Racism don't want people to oppose the Tommy Robinson supporters on the streets on Saturday.
> 
> Fascists ‘in disarray’ after cancelling ‘Tommy Robinson’ demo


back in the auld days i bet the likes of julie waterson would have said 'our demonstration is going ahead to celebrate this victory'


----------



## jimmer (Aug 20, 2019)

The London Anti-fascist Assembly counter-protest is still going ahead.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 20, 2019)

jimmer said:


> For some reason, a number of anti-fascist social media accounts seem to have been telling people the Free Tommy protests on Saturday (24 August) in central London have been cancelled — they haven't! A few weeks ago Richard Inman put a video out saying the plan was to do decentralised static protests all over central London. Then over the weekend Inman puts another video out saying SYL has decided from his prison cell to cancel the big rally they were going to have (which was never announced) but that people should still hold decentralised static protests all over central London and people should contact him/Tommy's team if they wanted to know where to hold them. He's just put out another video telling people to go to a protest outside the BBC at 1pm on Saturday, organised by a group called *TRUE PATRIOTS* and reiterating the call for decentralised protests. Basically, there are going to be SYL fans in small groups all over central London on Saturday, nothing which was going to happen has been cancelled.



Do you reckon they consider themselves as 'underdogs'?


----------



## jimmer (Aug 20, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> Do you reckon they consider themselves as 'underdogs'?


Well that is a central theme in the British counter-jihad movement, these are largely people who see themselves as being second class citizens.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 20, 2019)

jimmer said:


> Well that is a central theme in the British counter-jihad movement, these are largely people who see themselves as being second class citizens.


Thing is, if you look at where a big chunk of support comes from, they are (know you know this, just making the point). Because of class not because they're white ofc, but drivers to far right rooted in poverty, social alienation and being the 'underdog'


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 20, 2019)

Oh look, she who understands my words better than I is misrepresenting them again.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 20, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Thing is, if you look at where a big chunk of support comes from, they are (know you know this, just making the point). Because of class not because they're white ofc, but drivers to far right rooted in poverty, social alienation and being the 'underdog'


Oh yeah definitely, although I think there's also a geographical split in the UK. The counter-jihad movement outside of the south east is exactly how you describe, but around London and the south east it's wealthier, people in it own property, have small businesses etc and there can be more middle class types involved than you'd get elsewhere.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 20, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Thing is, if you look at where a big chunk of support comes from, they are (know you know this, just making the point). Because of class not because they're white ofc, but drivers to far right rooted in poverty, social alienation and being the 'underdog'



That's the biggest challenge though isn't it...because as long as that kind of  'underdog patriotism' is wrapped around and dripping in prejudice and racist dogma there's no way to promote lasting solidarity.


----------



## jimmer (Aug 20, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> That's the biggest challenge though isn't it...because as long as that kind of  'underdog patriotism' is wrapped around and dripping in prejudice and racist dogma there's no way to promote lasting solidarity.


I don't think it's that complicated, all we need to do is build working class power. Solidarity comes from struggle as people fight along side each other against a common enemy.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Aug 20, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> That's the biggest challenge though isn't it...because as long as that kind of  'underdog patriotism' is wrapped around and dripping in prejudice and racist dogma there's no way to promote lasting solidarity.



Is this how you feel about eg Palestinians (which was what I was getting at in my original point which you have since skewed to suit your agenda)?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 20, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Thing is, if you look at where a big chunk of support comes from, they are (know you know this, just making the point). Because of class not because they're white ofc, but drivers to far right rooted in poverty, social alienation and being the 'underdog'


this seems to push the petty bourgeoisie, so important in classical fascism, out the way.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 20, 2019)

jimmer said:


> I don't think it's that complicated, all we need to do is build working class power. Solidarity comes from struggle as people fight along side each other against a common enemy.




Yes, I know. I have had a fair amount of experience and success with this through community activism and development activities. 

There were though some who couldn't hold their 'prejudices' down and created issues and others who outright refused to get involved because 'those others' etc. These are folk who still benefited from our collective successes even though they refused to get involved iyswim.

So, I know the theory, i've had experience...my interest is in how such polarised thinking and reactions can be overcome, possible 'solutions' if you will. I suppose one is just to trust that they will naturally come around as confidence in what is achievable becomes clearer?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> this seems to push the petty bourgeoisie, so important in classical fascism, out the way.


Plenty of racists, far right types, and fascists there too obv. I was referring to active support for counter jihad type movements, the people who turn up to edl/'tommy' demos etc


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 20, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Plenty of racists, far right types, and fascists there too obv. I was referring to active support for counter jihad type movements, the people who turn up to edl/'tommy' demos etc


soz i thought your 'drivers to far right' a general comment rather than c-j


----------



## jimmer (Aug 20, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> There were though some who couldn't hold their 'prejudices' down and created issues and others who outright refused to get involved because 'those others' etc. These are folk who still benefited from our collective successes even though they refused to get involved iyswim.
> 
> So, I know the theory, i've had experience...my interest is in how such polarised thinking and reactions can be overcome, possible 'solutions' if you will. I suppose one is just to trust that they will naturally come around as confidence in what is achievable becomes clearer?


I know exactly what you mean and I've also seen arguments about individual's prejudices tear groups apart in the past. From my experience, I'd say it needs to be made abundantly clear at the start of any group or campaign that there is no space for oppressive language or behaviour within the group/campaign, which makes it easier to talk to people who get involved and start saying or doing the kind of things they shouldn't. Those conversations need to be 'calling people in', rather than 'calling people out', there was/is a tendency among some on the left where people see catching others at saying something problematic as an opportunity to make themselves look good, rather than a problem we collectively need to resolve. All of that said, I think it's a bigger problem that the left just isn't organising in a lot of working class communities around issues which impact those places. If more people were taking part in struggles which mattered to them, we'd see more people developing the way they interact with each other.


----------



## teqniq (Aug 24, 2019)

'Tommy Robinson' and the Boys in Blue – Byline Times


----------



## A380 (Aug 24, 2019)

teqniq said:


> 'Tommy Robinson' and the Boys in Blue – Byline Times


Not that I’m In a position to know or anything but I’d deffo imagine that almost the entirety of rozzers in SYL’s home force area thought he was a mortgage fraud commiting horrible cowardly cunt who hid behind his family.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 24, 2019)

Demo today was a bit underwhelming - I suspect general confusion as to whether it had been called off was partly to blame, but also just lack of interest. Maybe about 200 folk on the steps of the church by the BBC - half of them marched up there from Trafalgar Square, baffling tourists and occasionally trying to get into the road but being pushed back by the police. Cops did not let them get any closer to the BBC. Antis across the road in similar numbers but they didn't even bother closing the road. Horses and TSG around, a few arrests while I was there and a lot of smoke thrown (at one point the Tommy side managed to drop a smoke bomb right in their own faces - not sure quite what they were thinking there).

A lot of people peeled off to the All Bar One which is clearly the new Wetherspoons.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 24, 2019)

There's a certain irony in chanting "whose streets our streets" when, well, you are not actually on the street, you're on the pavement because there's maybe a hundred of you and you're not even getting in the way of the tourists.


----------



## M Testa (Aug 26, 2019)

the thread here generally sees the far right street demos as ideologically diffuse. 
there is no 'movement,' manifesto or key figure keeping people focused apart from robinson but when he is in prison they fall apart. 
is there any charismatic leadership figure to replace him? godard? danny tomo? useless, clueless fuckbins. ann marie waters? ukip? farage? britian 1st? too divisive and not enough street action. 
the football lads managed a massive turnout but then fell apart as the leadership were incapable, inexperienced, and headed straight for the petty cash tin which split them in 2. they then got progressively smaller with no end game whatsoever.  
like the EDL, these demos are becoming an excuse for a day out, drinking, and hassle with plod, that is, like england games.


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 27, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> back in the auld days i bet the likes of julie waterson would have said 'our demonstration is going ahead to celebrate this victory'



There is an interesting wee anecdote to Julie Watersons demo 'tactics'. Back in October 1993 when I was involved in then 'Away team', I was in Lo0ndon in the week running up top the 'Unity' demo in Welling, the one that really went tits up and World In Action did their hatchet job on. We were in a meeting a few nights before along with other 'stewards' and other people prepared to help organise the March. Also there was Waterson, Claire Dissington and as I remember (it was near 26 years ago) Rahul Patel. Waterson started whipping up her pals dotted throughout the meeting including some kids, literally schoolkids, calling us 'dads army' and thugs, blah blah blah.... When it became clear that Waterson believed the march would spontaneously steward itself she was asked about her plans to counter the police. She said that the demo should sit down and force the police to withdraw. She then went on, remarkably, to argue that if we sat down then the sight on national news of the police beating Leon Greenman (a man who survived Auschwitz) on the ground would be bad for the police. She literally wanted this poor bloke to be battered on national tv as propaganda, almost unbelievable frankly....  And whilst I am not keen on talking ill of the dead her comments that night were fucking disgraceful.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 28, 2019)

Fedayn said:


> There is an interesting wee anecdote to Julie Watersons demo 'tactics'. Back in October 1993 when I was involved in then 'Away team', I was in Lo0ndon in the week running up top the 'Unity' demo in Welling, the one that really went tits up and World In Action did their hatchet job on. We were in a meeting a few nights before along with other 'stewards' and other people prepared to help organise the March. Also there was Waterson, Claire Dissington and as I remember (it was near 26 years ago) Rahul Patel. Waterson started whipping up her pals dotted throughout the meeting including some kids, literally schoolkids, calling us 'dads army' and thugs, blah blah blah.... When it became clear that Waterson believed the march would spontaneously steward itself she was asked about her plans to counter the police. She said that the demo should sit down and force the police to withdraw. She then went on, remarkably, to argue that if we sat down then the sight on national news of the police beating Leon Greenman (a man who survived Auschwitz) on the ground would be bad for the police. She literally wanted this poor bloke to be battered on national tv as propaganda, almost unbelievable frankly....  And whilst I am not keen on talking ill of the dead her comments that night were fucking disgraceful.


In September 2000 on the Prague do, she marched the International Socialists bloc up to the bridge - miles off the route she/they'd agreed to - where the Tute Bianche/Ya Basta bloc was piling pressure on the most static and militarised of the three target points. Bullhorn Julie having shouted out some feisty sounding slogans, she then directed her ‘troops’ to throw rocks at the police lines (I know, I wouldn't believe it either, except I was stood there and saw/heard her do it)... Except they were throwing from way back and everything fell short onto the dozens-deep Ya Basta lines. Shortly afterwards she fucked off, taking her lot on another not-agreed-upon march elsewhere, to no tactical or strategic value. Bonkers.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 2, 2019)

Goddard managed to get himself nicked outside The Lowry trying to block Corbyns car in.


----------



## M Testa (Sep 3, 2019)

he has a martyr issue like robinson which usually ends up with jail time.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 3, 2019)

Singing "we love you Boris we do" ‘Yellow vest’ protester James Goddard arrested after approaching Jeremy Corbyn’s car


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 3, 2019)




----------



## Red Sky (Sep 3, 2019)

The39thStep said:


>




Apparently a few dozen of them running round Manchester though.


----------



## TopCat (Sep 3, 2019)

Lots of emboldened cunts in London too.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 3, 2019)

Red Sky said:


> Apparently a few dozen of them running round Manchester though.


Weird mixture of Britain First, TR supporters, Gen Id flirters and Goddard


----------



## TopCat (Sep 3, 2019)

The39thStep said:


> Weird mixture of Britain First, TR supporters, Gen Id flirters and Goddard


Not the master race by appearances.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 3, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Not the master race by appearances.



Quite the opposite they are like a group of day centre outpatients left without any supervision. How they've never been confronted in Manchester is beyond me tbh.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 3, 2019)

Released without charge this morning


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2019)

Behind the Bastards have done a podcast delving into Tommy Robinson

Tommy Robinson: The Fascist Grifter With An Addiction to Being Arrested


----------



## brogdale (Sep 13, 2019)

Cunt's out.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 13, 2019)

A turn to Mecca, or just not allowed a razor?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Cunt's out.
> 
> View attachment 184038


i see he's taking personal grooming advice from extinction rebellion's roger hallam


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 13, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> A turn to Mecca, or just not allowed a razor?



Or...


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 13, 2019)

.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 13, 2019)

DaveCinzano said:


> A turn to Mecca, or just not allowed a razor?


Publicity stunt, wants to make out he's had it hard. Chancing his arm cunt's been inside not lost in the fucking Amazon.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 13, 2019)

Rutita1 said:


> Publicity stunt, wants to make out he's had it hard. Chancing his arm cunt's been inside not lost in the fucking Amazon.


Yeah it's obviously this, three months in solitary starring tom hanks


----------



## Fedayn (Sep 13, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Or...
> 
> View attachment 184039


 
9 weeks in jail and he turns into....

Tommy Robinson Crusoe


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 13, 2019)

He did nine weeks


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 13, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> He did nine weeks



Uff there'll be a book next, then a film.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 13, 2019)

In same piece he claims he was in complete isolation for whole time and didn't see another prisoner at any point, which doesn't fit with him being sparked by that older fella. Also apparently tried to meet Assange in there. Lol


Far-right extremist Tommy Robinson out of prison after serving half of sentence

Far-right extremist Tommy Robinson out of prison after serving half of sentence


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 13, 2019)

I know a lad who was in the RAF for about three months but unironically refers to civvy street, reckon they'd get along


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 13, 2019)




----------



## sim667 (Sep 13, 2019)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 13, 2019)

I look forward to the crowdfunder for a patriotic cereal bar on Luton High Street


----------



## bellaozzydog (Sep 13, 2019)

Worst tour beard ever, the man’s no operator


----------



## Rivendelboy (Sep 13, 2019)

Ironically the 'beard' makes him look more likely to have quietly converted to Islam in prison


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2019)

He’s gone full hipster. He’ll be setting up a cereal bar in Hoxton for weetabix at a tenner a pop.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 13, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> He’s gone full hipster. He’ll be setting up a cereal bar in Hoxton for Whiteabix at a tenner a pop.



FTFY


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2019)

You always were funnier than me.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 13, 2019)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You always were funnier than me.


Lots of people here are funnier than you, but in most cases it's due to their peculiarities


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Sep 13, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Lots of people here are funnier than you, but in most cases it's due to their peculiarities



In this case it’s just funnier.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 14, 2019)

sim667 said:


> View attachment 184063



Cunt trying to make it look like he's been on a dirty protest.


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 14, 2019)

Is he out yet?


----------



## Rivendelboy (Sep 14, 2019)

cyril_smear said:


> Is he out yet?


...out of his mind

but sadly not out of our lives


----------



## TopCat (Sep 14, 2019)

A Tommeh supporter blurted out to a pal that they are off to Dover next weekend for a secret demo.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 14, 2019)

TopCat said:


> A Tommeh supporter blurted out to a pal that they are off to Dover next weekend for a secret demo.


Oops


----------



## brogdale (Oct 5, 2019)

He's not a complete cunt, he's a...


----------



## Rivendelboy (Oct 5, 2019)

Poor old John, he really doesn't get on with people called Tommy


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 5, 2019)

What is that meeting he's at there exactly?


----------



## rekil (Oct 5, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> What is that meeting he's at there exactly?


A conference organised by AfD's magazine Compact (the C logo).




			
				The Times said:
			
		

> Robinson was speaking after receiving the “European patriot of the year” award at a conference in Bavaria organised by the hard-right magazine Compact. In his acceptance speech, he said: “German people for too long have lived in the guilt of Adolf Hitler. Do not live in the guilt of Angela Merkel.”
> 
> The conference, on September 29, brought together key figures on the European far right, including Lutz Bachmann, the founder of Pegida, Martin Sellner, from the Generation Identity movement, leaders of the Alternative for Germany party and a representative of the Italian leader, Matteo Salvini. Compact has been funded by the Kremlin-created Institute for Democracy and Co-operation.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 5, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> What is that meeting he's at there exactly?



ADF I think


----------



## Rivendelboy (Oct 5, 2019)

copliker said:


> A conference organised by AfD's magazine Compact (the C logo).


Brexit supporting Tommy was voted European patriot of the year"?!?


----------



## Dom Traynor (Oct 6, 2019)

sim667 said:


> ADF I think


Asian Dub Foundation ?


----------



## sim667 (Oct 6, 2019)

Dom Traynor said:


> Asian Dub Foundation ?


Oops, its AfD

Alternative for Germany


----------



## Badgers (Oct 6, 2019)




----------



## The39thStep (Oct 6, 2019)

He got told to either come round the corner where there was no old bill or do one by Sunderland FLAF when he tried to turn up at a Corbyn meeting yesterday. Obviously he was on his bike


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 2, 2020)

Oh dear. 









						Tommy Robinson arrested after alleged bust-up in Center Parcs swimming pool
					

A man sustained an injury to his face during an incident at the holiday park where the far-right extremist was staying.




					www.dailyrecord.co.uk


----------



## Mr Moose (Mar 3, 2020)

Rutita1 said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What kind of loser lives in Bedfordshire and holidays in Bedfordshire?


----------



## 8ball (Mar 3, 2020)

Mr Moose said:


> What kind of loser lives in Bedfordshire and holidays in Bedfordshire?



Assuming he _was_ on holiday, and this isn’t some weird Alan Partridge style situation...


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 3, 2020)

8ball said:


> Assuming he _was_ on holiday, and this isn’t some weird Alan Partridge style situation...


His poor kids.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 3, 2020)

Rutita1 said:


> His poor kids.



(((Denise and Fernando)))


----------



## cantsin (Mar 3, 2020)

must admit, having seen the video, which included TR  asking his young daughter detailed questions about the alleged assault , and the manner of her response seeming normal / natural ( whatever that is, under those circumstances -I  just mean apparently unprompted )  am unsure about all this, and all the piss taking etc.

On the one hand, if all true, not sure any of us need to be crowing / piss taking, the offending bloke deserved a slap / then arresting. 

On the other, idea of TR's young daughter getting assaulted by an Asian ( by all accounts ) man in a  public pool , after a decade + of TR campaigning against muslim grooming gangs etc, just seems a bit mind boggling.


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 3, 2020)

cantsin said:


> must admit, having seen the video, which included TR  asking his young daughter detailed questions about the alleged assault , and the manner of her response seeming normal / natural ( whatever that is, under those circumstances -I  just mean apparently unprompted )  am unsure about all this, and all the piss taking etc.
> 
> On the one hand, if all true, not sure any of us need to be crowing / piss taking, the offending bloke deserved a slap / then arresting.
> 
> On the other, idea of TR's young daughter getting assaulted by an Asian ( by all accounts ) man in a  public pool , after a decade + of TR campaigning against muslim grooming gangs etc, just seems a bit mind boggling.



Course, it'd be most unlike the convicted fraudster and well known bullshitter Stephen Yaxley-Lennon to lie about this whole thing and even coerce his daughter into it as well. Most out of character.  

I have no doubt that he's seen an opportunity to gift some more money from his fuckwit acolytes by blowing this way up. He wanted to get nicked, no doubt about it. And let's face it, with his track record, the filth would have wanted to cover their own arse so if there was anything on this other guy or guys then they'd be nicked too.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 3, 2020)

apparently the grift isn't going to well at present either,  deplatforming is hurting the finances etc .... hard not to see this episode in that light


----------



## tonysingh (Mar 3, 2020)

cantsin said:


> apparently the grift isn't going to well at present either,  deplatforming is hurting the finances etc .... hard not to see this episode in that light




Yes, that emboldens my point. He has to keep himself current in order to keep the donations rolling in. This incident works perfectly. Plus he can milk the shit out of it when he's in court next, I think he's being sued atm.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 3, 2020)

cantsin said:


> must admit, having seen the video, which included TR  asking his young daughter detailed questions about the alleged assault , and the manner of her response seeming normal / natural ( whatever that is, under those circumstances -I  just mean apparently unprompted )  am unsure about all this, and all the piss taking etc.
> 
> On the one hand, if all true, not sure any of us need to be crowing / piss taking, the offending bloke deserved a slap / then arresting.
> 
> On the other, idea of TR's young daughter getting assaulted by an Asian ( by all accounts ) man in a  public pool , after a decade + of TR campaigning against muslim grooming gangs etc, just seems a bit mind boggling.


Not prepared to make up my mind on a who gets their video out first publicity gamble by SYL tbh. The Police response seems measured, they have two accusations to investigate. One of which will take longer to investigate due to the age of the victim which requires specialist officers and   further evidence including witness statements  , the other of assault by SYL has a victim statement and witnesses.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 3, 2020)




----------



## Athos (Mar 3, 2020)

I despise Robinson.  But, having seen the video in which his daughter is quite clear about what happened, I'm inclined to belive the victim of a sexual assault.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 3, 2020)

Athos said:


> I despise Robinson.  But, having seen the video in which his daughter is quite clear about what happened, I'm inclined to belive the victim of a sexual assault.



And what about his daughter?


----------



## 19force8 (Mar 3, 2020)

Athos said:


> I despise Robinson.  But, having seen the video in which his daughter is quite clear about what happened, I'm inclined to belive the victim of a sexual assault.


I haven't seen the video, because why would I?

Few questions about legal stuff though.

1) Other reports of it say SYL was asking leading questions of his daughter. Was that your impression? 

2) Will this video be more likely to aid or hinder a prosecution for sexual assault?

3) Who puts out a video identifying the victim of an alleged sexual assault just to avoid adverse publicity?


----------



## Athos (Mar 3, 2020)

19force8 said:


> I haven't seen the video, because why would I?



If you were interested in understanding more about this incident, I guess.




19force8 said:


> 1) Other reports of it say SYL was asking leading questions of his daughter. Was that your impression?



I'm sure it wasn't best practice.  But, on the face of it, it didn't look particularly leading (though we can't know what had already happened off camera).




19force8 said:


> 2) Will this video be more likely to aid or hinder a prosecution for sexual assault?



Hard to say.  Particularly since we don;t know whether she'd already provided an account to the police at that stage, and whether it differed from this version.




19force8 said:


> 3) Who puts out a video identifying the victim of an alleged sexual assault just to avoid adverse publicity?



An areshole like 'Robinson'.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 3, 2020)

Brave Sir Tommy and his lonesome crusade against Asian grooming gangs, now his own daughter gets caught up in it, yet he’s the one filth nick for assault. seems legit.


----------



## Athos (Mar 3, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Brave Sir Tommy and his lonesome crusade against Asian grooming gangs, now his own daughter gets caught up in it, yet he’s the one filth nick for assault. seems legit.



You think his daughter is lying?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 3, 2020)

Athos said:


> You think his daughter is lying?



I care not for him, his daughter, you, the filth who nicked him or the general manager of Centre Parks.


----------



## Athos (Mar 3, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I care not for him, his daughter, you, the filth who nicked him or the general manager of Centre Parks.



I uunderstand that.  But the question was whether you think she's lying?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 3, 2020)

Athos said:


> I uunderstand that.  But the question was whether you think she's lying?



and my answer was I have no opinion, as evidenced by the words I wrote.


----------



## Athos (Mar 3, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> and my answer was I have no opinion, as evidenced by the words I wrote.



Ok.  I'd thought from your first post that you were implying that SYL was lying about the alleged sexual assault, which'd necesarily mean his daughter wasn't telling the truth.  But it seems you're keeping an open mind on the issue.  Which is good, becasue as much as any right-minded person would hate him, it's a bit shitty to casually brush off a child's complaint of sexual assault.


----------



## sojourner (Mar 3, 2020)

Predictably, one of my southern cousins has just shared a youtube video of it, all shrieky and bellowing how 'she'd of killed 'im'


----------



## sim667 (Mar 4, 2020)

I’m very suspicious of the video, there’s a lot of times it sounds like the daughter has pauses like she’s trying to remember what to say. Whilst I don’t want to dismiss the victim of a sexual assault, particularly of this age, TR has form for making fake videos, and it’s quite telling that after investigation the police deemed not to arrest anyone for it, nor has TR released images, or a name of the man in question, because he knows he’d be hurt by another slander/liable case, like the ongoing one with Jamal at the moment. Not releasing photos/names is not TR’s style at all.

If this is an assault that’s happened, then TR has hurt his own cause with all the previous lying.

Even if the chap was now arrested, the fact TR has released videos would be prejudicing the trial and contempt of court.

TR is abusing his own daughter for financial gain, nothing more.


----------



## Athos (Mar 4, 2020)

sim667 said:


> I’m very suspicious of the video, there’s a lot of times it sounds like the daughter has pauses like she’s trying to remember what to say. Whilst I don’t want to dismiss the victim of a sexual assault, particularly of this age, TR has form for making fake videos, and it’s quite telling that after investigation the police deemed not to arrest anyone for it, nor has TR released images, or a name of the man in question, because he knows he’d be hurt by another slander/liable case, like the ongoing one with Jamal at the moment. Not releasing photos/names is not TR’s style at all.
> 
> If this is an assault that’s happened, then TR has hurt his own cause with all the previous lying.
> 
> ...



The fact that there is no arrest is rarely a good measure of whether or not a sexual assault took place.

He'd have been specifically warned that naming the bloke would've amounted to a beach of his bail conditions.

Releasing this video before arrest wouldn't amount to contempt of court. 

Whether or not the sexual assault to place, his previous conduct may have cost him, here - like the boy who cried wolf.

And, either way, using his daughter like that is despicable. He is a cunt.


----------



## dessiato (Mar 4, 2020)

I thought I should watch the video before commenting. I don’t have children but worked with them. My feeling is that the child was conscious of being filmed and of the need to say the “right” thing whatever that might have been. I felt that he was leading her to the “right” replies.

I don’t think that his reputation helped in the situation. I think that because he is very well known as a trouble causer the police were cautious about how they dealt with him. I think that knowing they were being filmed also affected how they interacted.

His rising anger, whilst understandable if the sexual assault claim is true, did not help. But he needed to listen to what he was being told which was that the person being accused of groping the daughter was being dealt with separately. It seems to me they were treating this as an actual assault for which he was arrested, and an alleged sexual assault which was being investigated at that time.

Unfortunately for him he has a reputation which would mean those dealing with him would react more quickly to a perceived threat.

He did assault someone, whatever the motivation. There were witnesses to that. My doubt is around exactly why he assaulted the person. My instinct is that that someone did touch his daughter, why and how I think is less certain because it’s not clear how much coaching she had, but I suspect she had some.

I shall watch the developments with interest.

eta The video was released after his arrest. He refers to the fact that he has a court date and that he has been arrested.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 4, 2020)

My instinct is that it's complete and utter bullshit. He was pissed up and chinned someone cos they  called him out on something. Like all the other times.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 4, 2020)

sojourner said:


> Predictably, one of my southern cousins has just shared a youtube video of it, all shrieky and bellowing how 'she'd of killed 'im'


 Ive no idea if the incident took place or not but if it did most people would have the same thought on their mind tbh before ringing the police or possibly carrying it out and ringing the police.


----------



## belboid (Mar 4, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> Ive no idea if the incident took place or not but if it did most people would have the same thought on their mind tbh before ringing the police or possibly carrying it out and ringing the police.


tho most people wouldn't have calmly set up a camera to get every moment of their talk with their child - quite quietly and reasonably - and then go on and just deck the fella. Unless they took a hefty snifter inbetween, anyway.


----------



## two sheds (Mar 12, 2020)

Being sued for libel - yet more attacks on free speech 









						Tommy Robinson 'racist invective' led to far-right targeting family, court hears
					

EDL founder posted videos claiming schoolboy Jamal Hijazi ‘violently attacks young English girls’




					www.theguardian.com
				






> A video showing Jamal Hijazi, then 16, being pushed to the ground and threatened with drowning at Almondbury school in Huddersfield provoked outrage and a flood of public sympathy after it was shared online and “went viral” in November 2018.
> 
> Robinson, 37, the English Defence League founder, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, later commented about the incident in two Facebook videos, claiming Jamal was “not innocent and he violently attacks young English girls in his school”.
> 
> ...


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 28, 2020)

LMFAO


----------



## ddraig (Jul 28, 2020)

Legged it to Spain! claiming BLM/someone firebombed house and not safe for him and family so flees to another country


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 28, 2020)

Is there now a 21 century equivalent of the ratlines that facilitated the escape of nazis to south america ?  Skorzeny  didnt use easyjet as far as i know


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 28, 2020)

ddraig said:


> Legged it to Spain! claiming BLM/someone firebombed house and not safe for him and family so flees to another country


Brave sir tommy ran away...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 28, 2020)

ddraig said:


> Legged it to Spain! claiming BLM/someone firebombed house and not safe for him and family so flees to another country


Nothing to do with trying to worm his way out of the libel suit.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 28, 2020)

What happens when FoM ends in 5 months, presumably it will then be up to the Spanish authorities to decide whether to let him stay there or to send him back home?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 28, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> What happens when FoM ends in 5 months, presumably it will then be up to the Spanish authorities to decide whether to let him stay there or to send him back home?



Has he said he wants to stay out there permanently?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 28, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> What happens when FoM ends in 5 months, presumably it will then be up to the Spanish authorities to decide whether to let him stay there or to send him back home?



he will claim asylum.

irony lol


----------



## Badgers (Jul 28, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> he will claim asylum.
> 
> irony lol


Ha Ha


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 28, 2020)

8ball said:


> Has he said he wants to stay out there permanently?



Apparently he's looking at  a "permanent relocation".



> "At that point we left the country straight away and I'm looking at relocating my family, which is pretty hard to do, especially with Covid — I couldn't even get a hotel.
> 
> "Obviously my wife has had enough of everything — someone gave her somewhere to stay, so we left the country, and I was due to be flying back for the demonstration, but now with this 14-day quarantine, I probably won't get back out and my kids are out here."
> 
> Mr Robinson, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, added that he had found new schools for his daughters and is in the process of finding a "permanent relocation" for them. He said: "I need my family to be away because they are not safe basically."











						Tommy Robinson flees to Spain with family and is considering leaving UK for good
					

Tommy Robinson, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, fled the UK with his family after an alleged arson attack on his wife's property - and now cannot attend a protest due to quarantine rules if he returned to the UK




					www.mirror.co.uk


----------



## Badgers (Jul 28, 2020)

cupid_stunt said:


> Apparently he's looking at  a "permanent relocation".


Any comment from 'our Nigel' on this asylum seeking?


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 28, 2020)

I have a feeling that this story is going to get more interesting post-Brexit, Once FoM ends he will presumably have to apply for Spanish residency to stay and viewed objectively he is hardly an ideal candidate, he doesn't seem to have had a proper job since 2003 when he lost the one he had for thumping a copper whilst drunk. He also has quite a criminal record. I can see him on the news 12 months from now giving a press conference at Gatwick shouting his mouth off about the unfairness and injustice of it all after the Spanish have turfed him out.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 28, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Any comment from 'our Nigel' on this asylum seeking?


"The people's Nigel"


----------



## Badgers (Jul 28, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> I have a feeling that this story is going to get more interesting post-Brexit, Once FoM ends he will presumably have to apply for Spanish residency to stay and viewed objectively he is hardly an ideal candidate, he doesn't seem to have had a proper job since 2003 when he lost the one he had for thumping a copper whilst drunk. He also has quite a criminal record. I can see him on the news 12 months from now giving a press conference at Gatwick shouting his mouth off about the unfairness and injustice of it all after the Spanish have turfed him out.


Hopefully the whole thing will cost him financially as well as credibility wise. 
Would be nice to see him at Gatwick shouting his mouth off but also in debt


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 28, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> I have a feeling that this story is going to get more interesting post-Brexit, Once FoM ends he will presumably have to apply for Spanish residency to stay and viewed objectively he is hardly an ideal candidate, he doesn't seem to have had a proper job since 2003 when he lost the one he had for thumping a copper whilst drunk. He also has quite a criminal record. I can see him on the news 12 months from now giving a press conference at Gatwick shouting his mouth off about the unfairness and injustice of it all after the Spanish have turfed him out.


dessiato will know more about this. However my feeling is is that money may well oil the wheels of any such application.Hes got quite a few months before FOM expires.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jul 28, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> I have a feeling that this story is going to get more interesting post-Brexit, Once FoM ends he will presumably have to apply for Spanish residency to stay and viewed objectively he is hardly an ideal candidate, he doesn't seem to have had a proper job since 2003 when he lost the one he had for thumping a copper whilst drunk. He also has quite a criminal record. I can see him on the news 12 months from now giving a press conference at Gatwick shouting his mouth off about the unfairness and injustice of it all after the Spanish have turfed him out.


Presumably, even prior to that, the Home Secretary can revoke his British citizenship as he is now in a position to apply for another nationality. After all, he's been convicted of a lot more stuff than that the girl that ran away Syria.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 28, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Presumably, even prior to that, the Home Secretary can revoke his British citizenship as he is now in a position to apply for another nationality. After all, he's been convicted of a lot more stuff than that the girl that ran away Syria.


Our Home Secretary?


----------



## gosub (Jul 28, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> Nothing to do with trying to worm his way out of the libel suit.



Nope he got round that by transferring his assets into his wife's name apparently


----------



## two sheds (Jul 28, 2020)

Shame if she divorced him


----------



## Shechemite (Jul 28, 2020)

Can’t be much of a life. Looks exhausting being him


----------



## gosub (Jul 28, 2020)

.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 28, 2020)

Spain - like all EUer- uses the ETIAS system - they may not look kindly upon a recidivist offender looking to set up shop. Hopefully


----------



## dessiato (Jul 28, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> dessiato will know more about this. However my feeling is is that money may well oil the wheels of any such application.Hes got quite a few months before FOM expires.


I don’t know about asylum, although I suspect an old fashioned “lunatic asylum” might fit.

As for citizenship he would need 10 years here, plus he would need to pass the appropriate exam and language requirements.

We have enough home grown nutters and racists, we don’t need this cunt.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jul 28, 2020)




----------



## The39thStep (Jul 28, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Presumably, even prior to that, the Home Secretary can revoke his British citizenship as he is now in a position to apply for another nationality. After all, he's been convicted of a lot more stuff than that the girl that ran away Syria.


Why on earth would they want to do that?


dessiato said:


> I don’t know about asylum, although I suspect an old fashioned “lunatic asylum” might fit.
> 
> As for citizenship he would need 10 years here, plus he would need to pass the appropriate exam and language requirements.
> 
> We have enough home grown nutters and racists, we don’t need this cunt.


He's not seeking asylum ,but he'll have to apply for residency to stay .


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 28, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> Spain - like all EUer- uses the ETIAS system - they may not look kindly upon a recidivist offender looking to set up shop. Hopefully


Tbh there's loads of 'ex offenders' living legally abroad


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 28, 2020)

I thought he was being sued by that school kid? Is that case over?


----------



## dessiato (Jul 28, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> Why on earth would they want to do that?
> 
> He's not seeking asylum ,but he'll have to apply for residency to stay .


Let’s hope he doesn’t get it. Unfortunately at the moment residencia is almost automatic under the transition arrangements.

The sooner he fucks off the better.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 28, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> I thought he was being sued by that school kid? Is that case over?


Some say that's why he has legged it


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 28, 2020)

You realise Yaxley Lennon has an Irish passport right?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 28, 2020)

looking at houses in  La Cala and Calahonda as well as Fuengirola. 









						EDL Co founder Tommy Robinson Looking At Schools And Property On Spain's Costa Del Sol After Arson Attack
					

Tommy Robinson, the EDL co-founder is seeking property and schools on Spain's Costa del Sol after an arson attack on his home. EDL co-founder Tommy




					global247news.com


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 28, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> I thought he was being sued by that school kid? Is that case over?


No , they've had the prehearing and unless both parties agree on a settlement out of court it goes to trial. Trial date to be fixed.


----------



## dessiato (Jul 28, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> looking at houses in  La Cala and Calahonda as well as Fuengirola.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fuck. We had been considering places in La Cala and Calahonda to buy. And there's some seriously fuckwitted Brits in Fuengirola, including Brexit voters.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 28, 2020)

I went to Fuengirola. Once. My only lasting impression of it was dire.


----------



## dessiato (Jul 28, 2020)

teqniq said:


> I went to Fuengirola. Once. My only lasting impression of it was dire.


We once drove for 2 and a half hours to getc there. The number of fat, badly dressed, drunk at midday, Brits meant we had a quick lunch and left. A wonderful example of the sort of pisshead Brits that give us all a bad name.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 28, 2020)

dessiato said:


> I don’t know about asylum, although I suspect an old fashioned “lunatic asylum” might fit.
> 
> As for citizenship he would need 10 years here, plus he would need to pass the appropriate exam and language requirements.
> 
> We have enough home grown nutters and racists, we don’t need this cunt.


Given how badly he mangles his mother tongue, I think you are safe from having to endure him as a Spanish citizen...


----------



## teqniq (Jul 28, 2020)

dessiato said:


> We once drove for 2 and a half hours to getc there. The number of fat, badly dressed, drunk at midday, Brits meant we had a quick lunch and left. A wonderful example of the sort of pisshead Brits that give us all a bad name.


My very first visit to Spain, we (me and my partner at the time) stayed with friends living in Benalmádena which is also when I visited Fuengirola. My very first experience after arriving was sitting in a small concrete plaza surrounded by flats outside a very nondescript cafe, where I observed a gentleman, older than me who was so drunk that he was crawling and stumbling up a shallow incline whilst being mocked by local kids. 'Welcome to Spain' I thought. The holiday did have some massively redeeming features though as we got to see one of the white towns inland from Malaga and the national park with the hydroelectic dams.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 28, 2020)

Has there been any evidence presented of 'an arson attack'? Pretty convenient really given he was spotted in Spain some weeks ago and now he simply can't come back to the UK to be at the demo he is promoting...but he's gonna make a video speech so his adoring fans can keep sending donations to fund his desire to live in Spain.   

Also...The Costa del Brit's abroad is probably the only place he'll be able to settle in, be welcomed and whatnot...good riddance.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 28, 2020)

Exactly! surely his big house has cameras on it and there'd be evidence, if it happened


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jul 28, 2020)

Surely, if he's in the middle of a trial he can't just fuck off to another country? Can he?


----------



## phillm (Jul 28, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Any comment from 'our Nigel' on this asylum seeking?


He's channelling Steve 'The Third' Reich apparently


----------



## Badgers (Jul 29, 2020)




----------



## Badgers (Jul 29, 2020)




----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 29, 2020)

Pretty sure Spain doesn’t let you have dual nationality, so no way he’ll go for citizenship.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 29, 2020)

I must've missed this latest piece of attention seeking bullshit from this jar headed bellend.

I'm sure he'll be back when he runs out of coke money.


----------



## andysays (Jul 30, 2020)

Badgers said:


> View attachment 224110


Looks like there's been a bit of a misunderstanding here, the way I heard it was that Tommy had just been advised to lie low for a while


----------



## Badgers (Jul 30, 2020)

Opinion: Tommy Robinson is moving to Spain – but he’s no persecuted hero on the run
					

The far right activist has been campaigning against immigration for years. So what's really happening with the former English Defence League leader?




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 30, 2020)

was talking to mrs NBE about staying at terry thomases place in Ibiza. She seemed less than enthusiastic about the prospect. Very much less enthusiastic it has to be be said. only when we discussed further, she realised she was thinking of tommy robinsons gaff in spain. erk









						Terry-Thomas: The Ibiza years - Comedy Chronicles - British Comedy Guide
					

Thirty years since his death, Terry-Thomas remains the most English of screen stars. From 1968, however, the comedy icon lost his heart to a Spanish island in the middle of the Mediterranean...




					www.comedy.co.uk


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 30, 2020)

TR has been hanging out in Tenerife in previous years, staying at some other far right pillock‘s place I think - can’t remember which one.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 30, 2020)

Dogsauce said:


> Pretty sure Spain doesn’t let you have dual nationality, so no way he’ll go for citizenship.



Why would he need Spanish nationality?


----------



## dessiato (Jul 30, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> Why would he need Spanish nationality?


He doesn't, he's got Irish so keeps his FoM, unlike those of us who live here and, due to Brexit, have lost it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 30, 2020)

Badgers said:


> Opinion: Tommy Robinson is moving to Spain – but he’s no persecuted hero on the run
> 
> 
> The far right activist has been campaigning against immigration for years. So what's really happening with the former English Defence League leader?
> ...


Surely he'll be relegated to the English defence conference


----------



## dessiato (Jul 30, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> Surely he'll be relegated to the English defence conference


The sooner he’s in the Sunday pub league the better.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 30, 2020)

dessiato said:


> The sooner he’s in the Sunday pub league the better.


Can't be long now

He'll harangue drinkers in some Spanish dive about how he was a contender


----------



## two sheds (Jul 30, 2020)

I dunno, he's hoping to be in Europe next year


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 30, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> Presumably, even prior to that, the Home Secretary can revoke his British citizenship as he is now in a position to apply for another nationality.


I have very little legal learning, but as I understand it - especially given the lack of a proven terrorist linkage, and the fact he is indisputably British - she would have grave difficulties sustaining such a revoation past a high court challenge


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 30, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> I thought he was being sued by that school kid? Is that case over?


Don't think so. Still go to full crown court trial - those hearings were the pre-trial


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 30, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> Surely, if he's in the middle of a trial he can't just fuck off to another country? Can he?


yes, if it's not a criminal trial. This is a civil suit.


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 30, 2020)

Rutita1 said:


> Also...The Costa del Brit's abroad is probably the only place he'll be able to settle in, be welcomed and whatnot...good riddance.


rough luck on the poor Spanish though


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jul 30, 2020)

Streathamite said:


> I have very little legal learning, but as I understand it - especially given the lack of a proven terrorist linkage, and the fact he is indisputably British - she would have grave difficulties sustaining such a revoation past a high court challenge


She is indisputably British. If you recall the government’s argument was that on being rendered stateless she would be in a position to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship on the basis of her parents’ current or previous nationality. I am not sure she has been convicted of terrorist crimes. I’m not sure British courts are big on _in absentia_ convicions.
Mr Yaxley-Lennon, in the other hand, has indisputably been convicted of serious (although non-terrorist) offences. One assumes that now being resident of Spain, under the EU freedom of movement rights, he is in a position to apply for Spanish nationality in due course, and therefore could have his Brutish citizenship withdrawn without leaving him stateless. 
What’s source for goose..even if the analogy is a little stretched.


----------



## Streathamite (Jul 30, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> She is indisputably British. If you recall the government’s argument was that on being rendered stateless she would be in a position to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship on the basis of her parents’ current or previous nationality. I am not sure she has been convicted of terrorist crimes. I’m not sure British courts are big on _in absentia_ convicions.
> Mr Yaxley-Lennon, in the other hand, has indisputably been convicted of serious (although non-terrorist) offences. One assumes that now being resident of Spain, under the EU freedom of movement rights, he is in a position to apply for Spanish nationality in due course, and therefore could have his Brutish citizenship withdrawn without leaving him stateless.
> What’s source for goose..even if the analogy is a little stretched.


Agree with all you say, but a criminal record is not enough to strip of citizenship, which is why I beliive both would win if it came down to m'lud's call.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 30, 2020)

Streathamite said:


> rough luck on the poor Spanish though


Don't think he'll get as far as poor Spanish. It will be loud English followed by 'comprende'.


----------



## agricola (Jul 30, 2020)

Streathamite said:


> Agree with all you say, but a criminal record is not enough to strip of citizenship, which is why I beliive both would win if it came down to m'lud's call.



he'd flounce off wearing a t-shirt that cried out NOT BRITISH BUT ENGLISH long before that anyway


----------



## freakydave (Jul 30, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Don't think he'll get as far as poor Spanish. It will be loud English followed by 'comprende'.



He's not really just a thug. He ran a pretty big organisation and coordinates with the other far right European organisations. 
He seems pretty sick in the head, but it's not like he's an 18 year old on holiday, he's worked something out


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 30, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> was talking to mrs NBE about staying at terry thomases place in Ibiza. She seemed less than enthusiastic about the prospect. Very much less enthusiastic it has to be be said. only when we discussed further, she realised she was thinking of tommy robinsons gaff in spain. erk
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I *really* enjoyed that read! 

(I know, a real hagiography! But probably far more insightful than any official obituary ... )

However ultra-posh, and beyond-annoying, most of Terry-Thomas's gang must have been, I doubt there was anything other than fun (or distraction/escape paths  ) to be had if you got invited to hang out there ......

Anyway :

"Thomas Terry Hoar Stevens from unfashionable Finchley"  changed his name to Terry-Thomas  -- poshwards..

Stephen Yaxley-Lennon changed his name to 'Tommy Robinson' -- other direction.

Which one of them was/is more of an arsehole than the other?

Easy!!


----------



## Athos (Jul 30, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> She is indisputably British. If you recall the government’s argument was that on being rendered stateless she would be in a position to apply for Bangladeshi citizenship on the basis of her parents’ current or previous nationality. I am not sure she has been convicted of terrorist crimes. I’m not sure British courts are big on _in absentia_ convicions.
> Mr Yaxley-Lennon, in the other hand, has indisputably been convicted of serious (although non-terrorist) offences. One assumes that now being resident of Spain, under the EU freedom of movement rights, he is in a position to apply for Spanish nationality in due course, and therefore could have his Brutish citizenship withdrawn without leaving him stateless.
> What’s source for goose..even if the analogy is a little stretched.



As much as I'd like to see the cunt fucked off for good, that's not quite right.  Under Bangladeshi law, Begum had dual citizenship from birth, rather than being entitled to apply for it.  The government's position is that she wasn't rendered stateless at any time by virtue of being stripped of her British citizenship.  Even putting aside the differences between IS and the the EDL, Unless he's already a dual citizen, you're not comparing like with like.


----------



## MrSki (Jul 30, 2020)




----------



## Shechemite (Jul 30, 2020)

freakydave said:


> He's not really just a thug. He ran a pretty big organisation and coordinates with the other far right European organisations.
> He seems pretty sick in the head, but it's not like he's an 18 year old on holiday, he's worked something out



I thought his networks were further east.


----------



## freakydave (Jul 30, 2020)

MadeInBedlam said:


> I thought his networks were further east.



I have no idea, the far right is huge in Western Europe though


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Jul 31, 2020)

Athos said:


> As much as I'd like to see the cunt fucked off for good, that's not quite right.  Under Bangladeshi law, Begum had dual citizenship from birth, rather than being entitled to apply for it.  The government's position is that she wasn't rendered stateless at any time by virtue of being stripped of her British citizenship.  Even putting aside the differences between IS and the the EDL, Unless he's already a dual citizen, you're not comparing like with like.


I think Bangladesh begs to disagree. I’m not sure what power the English courts have over the interpretation of Bangladeshi Law and their immigration system. Not to worry, I won’t loose sleep if they each stay just where they are.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 31, 2020)

freakydave said:


> I have no idea, the far right is huge in Western Europe though



central and eastern europe is ripe for them. I came across a serious meeting of eurofash in a pub in kiev couple of years ago, including french and Bulgarians. they had some lumpy fuckers amongst them


----------



## Athos (Jul 31, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> I think Bangladesh begs to disagree. I’m not sure what power the English courts have over the interpretation of Bangladeshi Law and their immigration system. Not to worry, I won’t loose sleep if they each stay just where they are.



For the purposes of her claim against the Home Secretary's decision, it's entirely up to the English courts to decide what Bangladeshi law says (a finding of fact).  And Bangladeshi law is quite clear on the issue, regardless of what some Bangladeshi politicians might claim.


----------



## MrSki (Jul 31, 2020)




----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 31, 2020)

Yaxley Lennon is Irish, so can settle in Spain freely. Also Spain does allow dual nationality, certainly one of my punters has both a Spanish and Argentinian passport as well as a US one.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 31, 2020)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yaxley Lennon is Irish, so can settle in Spain freely. Also Spain does allow dual nationality, certainly one of my punters has both a Spanish and Argentinian passport as well as a US one.



Thought he was British?

Or, as am sure he'd prefer, English?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 31, 2020)

I saw a lovely cartoon. 

The punchline said 'Hey Tommy, you realise that you are an asylum seeker now?'.


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 31, 2020)

krtek a houby said:


> Thought he was British?
> 
> Or, as am sure he'd prefer, English?


He is. But his parent(s) are Irish.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 31, 2020)

steveo87 said:


> He is. But his parent(s) are Irish.



Ah, right.

I can't see the fucker being welcomed with open arms there. Apart from the likes of Chemtrails O'Doherty etc..


----------



## MrSpikey (Aug 1, 2020)

Rutita1 said:


> Has there been any evidence presented of 'an arson attack'?



According to the Indie:



> Bedfordshire Police said it did not have a record of house arson linked to Robinson's family, but had received a report of a car being set on fire in June, without providing further details.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 1, 2020)

aww poor lad must have been living in his car


----------



## SpineyNorman (Aug 2, 2020)

If they tried to burn his house down and only got his car all I can say is they'd better try a lot fucking harder next time.


----------



## dessiato (Aug 2, 2020)

steveo87 said:


> He is. But his parent(s) are Irish.


That's how he's now got his Irish passport. He'll be able to stay here on that. Luckily he can still be refused residencia because of his criminal record. Given how many names he operates under it might be a while till everything is uncovered. 

There's some FB ex-pat sites making it clear he's unwelcome. And, bizarrely, some on those sites welcoming him to the area. I fail to understand people living in Spain, being Brexit supporters, and anti-immigrant. He will fit in with these.


----------



## The39thStep (Aug 2, 2020)

SpineyNorman said:


> If they tried to burn his house down and only got his car all I can say is they'd better try a lot fucking harder next time.


There were four cars damaged in the fire , there was a street location given but no details of owners. He's now admitted that he isnt looking to relocate and is just on holiday


----------



## dessiato (Aug 2, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> There were four cars damaged in the fire , there was a street location given but no details of owners. He's now admitted that he isnt looking to relocate and is just on holiday


Let's hope he remembers to go into quarantine when he returns to the UK.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 2, 2020)

dessiato said:


> Let's hope he remembers to go into quarantine when he returns to the UK.


...and, doesn't come out.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Aug 2, 2020)

dessiato said:


> He doesn't, he's got Irish so keeps his FoM, unlike those of us who live here and, due to Brexit, have lost it.



Exactly but everyone keeps hanging on about it as if he's being a hypocrite, he's not. He voted to end FOM for British people not himself. My parents are Irish and voted Brexit as well. It's not uncommon.


----------



## dessiato (Aug 2, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> Exactly but everyone keeps hanging on about it as if he's being a hypocrite, he's not. He voted to end FOM for British people not himself. My parents are Irish and voted Brexit as well. It's not uncommon.


He had a British passport until he decided to claim Irish to be able to keep his FoM. That, for me, is the hypocrisy.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Aug 2, 2020)

dessiato said:


> He had a British passport until he decided to claim Irish to be able to keep his FoM. That, for me, is the hypocrisy.



There's nothing to stop him having either or both, same as me or my parents. I voted Remain, but my parents voted for Brexit because they genuinely think the UK should leave the EU, it doesn't mean they are hypocrites even though they intend to retire to Cyprus. They think they were doing their bit for Britain. They were wrong, but it wasn't hypocritical.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 2, 2020)

Apparently he's done a U turn and isn't going anywhere: Tommy Robinson does U-turn on 'Spain move' and hits out at 'snowflakes'


----------



## Flavour (Aug 3, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> There's nothing to stop him having either or both, same as me or my parents. I voted Remain, but my parents voted for Brexit because they genuinely think the UK should leave the EU, it doesn't mean they are hypocrites even though they intend to retire to Cyprus. They think they were doing their bit for Britain. They were wrong, but it wasn't hypocritical.



Yes it was.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Aug 3, 2020)

Flavour said:


> Yes it was.


Why?


----------



## Flavour (Aug 3, 2020)

They're Irish citizens and retain the ability to retire to Cyprus regardless of Brexit, so it doesn't affect them in terms of FoM -- do you think they would have voted Leave without their Irish passports to back up their own EU-geared retirement plans?


----------



## LiamO (Aug 3, 2020)

steveo87 said:


> He is. But his parent(s) are Irish.



Lennon and O'Carroll, I think, from Dundalk. Don't suppose he holidays there much.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Aug 3, 2020)

Flavour said:


> They're Irish citizens and retain the ability to retire to Cyprus regardless of Brexit, so it doesn't affect them in terms of FoM -- do you think they would have voted Leave without their Irish passports to back up their own EU-geared retirement plans?



Their own citizenship is not relevant. The country they were making a decision on was the UK, it they had voted for Irexit and then whinged about not being able to move to the EU it would be a different story.


----------



## Raheem (Aug 4, 2020)

LiamO said:


> Lennon and O'Carroll, I think, from Dundalk. Don't suppose he holidays there much.


_O'Carroll, I am such a shit.
I went to live in Spain,
But only for a bit._


----------



## scifisam (Aug 4, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> Their own citizenship is not relevant. The country they were making a decision on was the UK, it they had voted for Irexit and then whinged about not being able to move to the EU it would be a different story.



They voted for something that restricted freedom of movement for British people who don't also have another EU citizenship. They were unaffected by that aspect of their vote.

I'm not sure hypocrisy is the right word, but voting to restrict other people's rights while knowing that your own are fine does not make anyone think oh, these are lovely people who only have the best interests of their fellow UK citizens at heart.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 4, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Don't think he'll get as far as poor Spanish. It will be loud English followed by 'comprende'.


very good! 
(ermm, I assume you knew I meant his luckless host community)


----------



## Raheem (Aug 4, 2020)

Streathamite said:


> (ermm, I assume you knew I meant his luckless host community)


Assume away.


----------



## andysays (Aug 4, 2020)

scifisam said:


> They voted for something that restricted freedom of movement for British people who don't also have another EU citizenship. They were unaffected by that aspect of their vote.
> 
> I'm not sure hypocrisy is the right word, but voting to restrict other people's rights while knowing that your own are fine does not make anyone think oh, these are lovely people who only have the best interests of their fellow UK citizens at heart.


They're not UK citizens, they're Irish citizens resident and registered to vote in Britain (if I've understood Dom Traynor  correctly).

Assuming they've lived and worked in the UK for some years, and would otherwise be eligible for a British state pension on retirement, I wonder what might happen if they do go through with their plans to retire to Cyprus.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Don't think he'll get as far as poor Spanish. It will be loud English followed by 'capiche'.


C4U


----------



## Flavour (Aug 4, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> Their own citizenship is not relevant.


Yes it is.


----------



## scifisam (Aug 4, 2020)

andysays said:


> They're not UK citizens, they're Irish citizens resident and registered to vote in Britain (if I've understood Dom Traynor  correctly).



OK, so they voted to restrict the freedom of movement of citizens of the country they live in, while keeping their own rights. Not sure how that makes it any better.


----------



## andysays (Aug 4, 2020)

scifisam said:


> OK, so they voted to restrict the freedom of movement of citizens of the country they live in, while keeping their own rights. Not sure how that makes it any better.


To be clear, I don't think it makes it any better either.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2020)

Count Cuckula said:


> Apparently he's done a U turn and isn't going anywhere: Tommy Robinson does U-turn on 'Spain move' and hits out at 'snowflakes'


it's not a u-turn, he's going round and round a roundabout


----------



## Dom Traynor (Aug 4, 2020)

andysays said:


> They're not UK citizens, they're Irish citizens resident and registered to vote in Britain (if I've understood Dom Traynor  correctly).
> 
> Assuming they've lived and worked in the UK for some years, and would otherwise be eligible for a British state pension on retirement, I wonder what might happen if they do go through with their plans to retire to Cyprus.



The point is that their position is not hypocritical. They're eligible for British state pensions and living in Cyprus won't affect that. 

If you look at the meaning of hypocritical it just doesnt make sense to use it to describe people with EU passports who voted for Brexit.


----------



## scifisam (Aug 4, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> The point is that their position is not hypocritical. They're eligible for British state pensions and living in Cyprus won't affect that.
> 
> If you look at the meaning of hypocritical it just doesnt make sense to use it to describe people with EU passports who voted for Brexit.



What word would you use to describe people who vote to make life more difficult for other people without having to do deal with it themselves, then? Hypocrite is probably the least rude word to describe it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 4, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> The point is that their position is not hypocritical. They're eligible for British state pensions and living in Cyprus won't affect that.
> 
> If you look at the meaning of hypocritical it just doesnt make sense to use it to describe people with EU passports who voted for Brexit.


i suspect that the vast majority of people with eu27 passports voted to remain in the eu. but few non-irish people from the eu27 were afforded a vote.


----------



## andysays (Aug 4, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> The point is that their position is not hypocritical. They're eligible for British state pensions and living in Cyprus won't affect that.
> 
> If you look at the meaning of hypocritical it just doesnt make sense to use it to describe people with EU passports who voted for Brexit.


As things currently stand it may not affect their UK state pension, but it would certainly be ironic if that changed (and I say that as someone who voted to Leave the EU, to be clear).

While it may not meet your definition of hypocritical, I can certainly understand those who say it is.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Aug 6, 2020)

scifisam said:


> What word would you use to describe people who vote to make life more difficult for other people without having to do deal with it themselves, then? Hypocrite is probably the least rude word to describe it.



They don't agree that they did vote to make life more difficult for British people.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Aug 6, 2020)

andysays said:


> As things currently stand it may not affect their UK state pension, but it would certainly be ironic if that changed (and I say that as someone who voted to Leave the EU, to be clear).
> 
> While it may not meet your definition of hypocritical, I can certainly understand those who say it is.



Fair enough. Just to be clear they're British Citizens as well as Irish. People on here seem to struggle with that concept even though there are millions of us.


----------



## scifisam (Aug 6, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> They don't agree that they did vote to make life more difficult for British people.



Then they're wrong, when it comes to freedom of movement. A lot of people on here are voted leave, but I think they did it knowing that their own freedom of movement might well be restricted, but they thought the advantages of leaving were big enough that it was a sacrifice worth making. I disagree but at least they were willing to live with any of the negative repercussions of their vote.

If you have an EU citizenship then you're expecting people to make that sacrifice without needing to make it yourself. 

You don't have to be a remain supporter to think that's hypocritical, or some other word that's equally disparaging.


----------



## andysays (Aug 6, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> Fair enough. Just to be clear they're British Citizens as well as Irish. People on here seem to struggle with that concept even though there are millions of us.


Fair enough.

I don't think you mentioned that previously (and I am of course aware that people with dual British/Irish citizenship exist).


----------



## two sheds (Aug 6, 2020)

scifisam said:


> What word would you use to describe people who vote to make life more difficult for other people without having to do deal with it themselves, then?



tory?


----------



## scifisam (Aug 6, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> Fair enough. Just to be clear they're British Citizens as well as Irish. People on here seem to struggle with that concept even though there are millions of us.



Doesn't really make a difference in this context though.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Aug 6, 2020)

scifisam said:


> Then they're wrong, when it comes to freedom of movement. A lot of people on here are voted leave, but I think they did it knowing that their own freedom of movement might well be restricted, but they thought the advantages of leaving were big enough that it was a sacrifice worth making. I disagree but at least they were willing to live with any of the negative repercussions of their vote.
> 
> If you have an EU citizenship then you're expecting people to make that sacrifice without needing to make it yourself.
> 
> You don't have to be a remain supporter to think that's hypocritical, or some other word that's equally disparaging.



I can't defend their position because it's not one I agree with myself, but just like any other leave voter they thought the UK would be better off outside the EU. They will be better off in Cyprus, and probably less of a burden on the NHS has health conditions mean they need a hot dry climate, so really they're taking one for the team.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 6, 2020)

scifisam said:


> What word would you use to describe people who vote to make life more difficult for other people without having to do deal with it themselves, then? Hypocrite is probably the least rude word to describe it.



Entitled, selfish cunts?


----------



## scifisam (Aug 6, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> I can't defend their position because it's not one I agree with myself, but just like any other leave voter they thought the UK would be better off outside the EU. They will be better off in Cyprus, and probably less of a burden on the NHS has health conditions mean they need a hot dry climate, so really they're taking one for the team.



I know they're your parents, so you want to defend them, but the point isn't really about them voting leave - it's about them voting leave while knowing that they, personally, would not lose their rights to free movement. 

Saying that they're taking one for the team is stretching it a _lot_. I'd be better off in a hot, dry climate too, and had thought about moving to Spain - I speak some Spanish - but that's not a possibility for me now.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 6, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> I can't defend their position because it's not one I agree with myself, but just like any other leave voter they thought the UK would be better off outside the EU. They will be better off in Cyprus, a*nd probably less of a burden on the NHS has health conditions mean they need a hot dry climate*, so really they're taking one for the team.



Err...come off it... whilst I too hope I get to live out my twilight years in a better climate so less likely to ail with certain things this is a context free assumption you are making. I know of a fair few British people who live abroad in Europe/elsewhere and come back to the UK for treatment as/when they need it. I can't say how they manage to keep an address or registered etc but they do. They are not taking one for the team at all.


----------



## Anju (Sep 11, 2020)

Just seen this on a local Facebook group. Wasn't sure where to put this but this guy's clearly a little Tommy wannabe so here he is. Exposing Deptford, the birds nest and cinema as hotbeds of satanic antifa business.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 11, 2020)

Anju said:


> Just seen this on a local Facebook group. Wasn't sure where to put this but this guy's clearly a little Tommy wannabe so here he is. Exposing Deptford, the birds nest and cinema as hotbeds of satanic antifa business.



There's a twat that needs some serious ignoring...


----------



## Dom Traynor (Sep 12, 2020)

One of the other Twitter users he tagged thisislaurat is that stupid fuckwit that had a go at Yorkshire Tea for supporting BLM (csr nonsense aside).


----------



## Shechemite (Sep 12, 2020)

Dom Traynor said:


> One of the other Twitter users he tagged thisislaurat is that stupid fuckwit that had a go at Yorkshire Tea for supporting BLM (csr nonsense aside).



The video of her interviewing/grooming some terrified American lonely nerd is funny


----------



## Shechemite (Sep 12, 2020)

Please like me random British Mosleyite


----------



## TopCat (Sep 12, 2020)

Some ugly remainer shit on this thread.


----------



## The39thStep (Sep 17, 2020)

Rumour going around on the far right that James Goddard makes his money doing naked cleaning 😂


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 17, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> Rumour going around on the far right that James Goddard makes his money doing naked cleaning 😂


Well I have just learnt something I never knew before and having learnt it realised that there are indeed things that I'm better off not knowing


----------



## pesh (Sep 17, 2020)

> Tried to hire James Goddard’s naked house cleaning service. Turns out he doesn’t do Saturdays.


----------



## teqniq (Nov 1, 2020)

Another court case coming up perchance? Tommeh getting arrested at Speaker's Corner.


----------



## killer b (Nov 1, 2020)

He gets arrested on purpose doesn't he? It's part of his grift.


----------



## klang (Nov 1, 2020)

Has he had Covid yet?


----------



## brogdale (Nov 1, 2020)

killer b said:


> He gets arrested on purpose doesn't he? It's part of his grift.


Crowd-funding had dipped?


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 1, 2020)

teqniq said:


> Another court case coming up perchance? Tommeh getting arrested at Speaker's Corner.




what's he been up to this time?


----------



## teqniq (Nov 1, 2020)

cyril_smear said:


> what's he been up to this time?


Breaching coronavirus regulations according to this:









						Tommy Robinson cries 'I haven't done anything' as he's arrested at rally
					

The far-right activist was detained in Hyde Park.




					metro.co.uk


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 1, 2020)

teqniq said:


> Breaching coronavirus regulations according to this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Was just going to post that. I think he's a virus truther, at least tangentially, so not very surprising.


----------



## klang (Nov 1, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Was just going to post that. I think he's a virus truther, at least tangentially, so not very surprising.


he is. some time ago he was pictured wearing a covid 1985 t-shirt, the twat.


----------



## MickiQ (Nov 1, 2020)

Getting bored with this dipshit, it's not like we haven't got real problems to deal with at the moment


----------



## klang (Nov 1, 2020)

wasn't he supposed to fuck off to spain?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 1, 2020)

littleseb said:


> wasn't he supposed to fuck off to spain?


Turned out to be more of his bullshit.


----------



## killer b (Nov 1, 2020)

it's all bullshit. the only real thing about him is that he's a racist. Everything else is grift


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 1, 2020)

Lot of coppers there. Doubt it was by accident. There are normally a couple around but nothing like that.



I was in town today and I did think of going by Speakers' Corner but I didn't and I'm not sorry.


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 1, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Lot of coppers there. Doubt it was by accident. There are normally a couple around but nothing like that.
> 
> 
> 
> I was in town today and I did think of going by Speakers' Corner but I didn't and I'm not sorry.




How many for one man? Unless police vans down there are different I notice they didn't put him in the cage.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 1, 2020)

cyril_smear said:


> How many for one man? Unless police vans down there are different I notice they didn't put him in the cage.


It would have been the people around him that they were concerned about.


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 1, 2020)

does look like a publicly stunt

so much for him being scared for his life and fucking off to Spain


----------



## tim (Nov 1, 2020)

Oh dear, how sad, never mind!


----------



## teqniq (Nov 1, 2020)

Concerning the filming of Tommeh's arrest



Fair play.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 1, 2020)

Got to admire a predictable but valiant attempt to con some more money from the Tommynistas after arriving with private security.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Nov 1, 2020)

Who needs free speech anyway, right? I mean it's not like the police would ever use their powers to stop the left speaking, is it?


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 1, 2020)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Who needs free speech anyway, right? I mean it's not like the police would ever use their powers to stop the left speaking, is it?



not sure if anyone from the left marched up to speakers corner atm with private security

would not also get nicked..

Plus is not like he was given a  lathi charge before being arrested in front of multiple camera teams he had brought along to record the moment




saying that is the law of freedom of speech in the united kingdom is that you can still get nicked for it?

not saying its right


----------



## killer b (Nov 1, 2020)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Who needs free speech anyway, right? I mean it's not like the police would ever use their powers to stop the left speaking, is it?


what was he arrested for saying?


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 1, 2020)

killer b said:


> what was he arrested for saying?


Dunno there were allegations about someone possibly him carrying an offensive weapon . Aside from that he wasn’t wearing a poppy which in some peoples view is arrestable .


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Nov 1, 2020)

So he’s calculated that he will make enough money out of this to cover the cost of hiring a bunch of private security for an afternoon? 

The budgeting must be wild.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 1, 2020)

Fozzie Bear said:


> So he’s calculated that he will make enough money out of this to cover the cost of hiring a bunch of private security for an afternoon?
> 
> The budgeting must be wild.


Reminds me of Spinal Tap’s comeback


----------



## killer b (Nov 1, 2020)

Looks like if you're Tommy Robinson you could get arrested for pretty much anything and there'll be suckers on the internet claiming it raises issues about freedom of speech. Impressive work.


----------



## existentialist (Nov 1, 2020)

teqniq said:


> Another court case coming up perchance? Tommeh getting arrested at Speaker's Corner.



He's a proper little whinger, isn't he? Squeaky little voice, and all that "you're breaking my arm" palaver. Twat.


----------



## teqniq (Nov 1, 2020)

existentialist said:


> He's a proper little whinger, isn't he? Squeaky little voice, and all that "you're breaking my arm" palaver. Twat.


Playing to the gallery.


----------



## JimW (Nov 1, 2020)

He only went there to deliver a eulogy for Nobby Stiles (in a knobby style).


----------



## existentialist (Nov 1, 2020)

teqniq said:


> Playing to the gallery.


Does that whining stuff really go down well in knuckledraggerland?


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 1, 2020)

killer b said:


> Looks like if you're Tommy Robinson you could get arrested for pretty much anything and there'll be suckers on the internet claiming it raises issues about freedom of speech. Impressive work.


Prob true but hes reached the point where he's no longer the only show in town tbh . Arrests for this sort of stuff aren't going to bumpstart either his career or funding. tbh


----------



## Shechemite (Nov 1, 2020)

He was trying to get into the anti-speed camera thing earlier this year. 

What a way to live


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 1, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> Prob true but hes reached the point where he's no longer the only show in town tbh . Arrests for this sort of stuff aren't going to bumpstart either his career or funding. tbh



 might as well fuck of to Spain when you think about it


----------



## Marty1 (Nov 1, 2020)

MadeInBedlam said:


> He was trying to get into the anti-speed camera thing earlier this year.
> 
> What a way to live



Whats an anti-speed camera?


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Nov 1, 2020)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Who needs free speech anyway, right? I mean it's not like the police would ever use their powers to stop the left speaking, is it?


Just for balance a Marxist speaker (Heiko koo) was arrested at the same time for a breach of the peace.
First they came for the fascists .....


----------



## Ax^ (Nov 1, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Whats an anti-speed camera?



do you have anything left aside from self parody


----------



## 8ball (Nov 1, 2020)

littleseb said:


> he is. some time ago he was pictured wearing a covid 1985 t-shirt, the twat.



Covid 1985?


----------



## 8ball (Nov 1, 2020)

Ax^ said:


> not sure if anyone from the left marched up to speakers corner atm with private security
> 
> would not also get nicked..
> 
> ...



There is no freedom of speech law here.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Nov 2, 2020)

8ball said:


> Covid 1985?


One better than normal recipe Orwellian dystopia allusion


----------



## likesfish (Nov 2, 2020)

It's police corruption obviously Lawrance Fox wants the job of right wing tosser and being posh can get the met to bully the oik toomah ( not sure you can be working class if you don't actually work?")
  Another example of the middle classes stealing all the plum jobs 😂🤣


----------



## 19force8 (Nov 2, 2020)

A good thread from the Antifascist Research Collective with some background as to what was going on - it seems the wee boy was there to support an anti-Islam speaker.

Worth a look for the photos alone:


----------



## 19force8 (Nov 2, 2020)

Duplicate posting removed. Doh!


----------



## 19force8 (Nov 16, 2020)

His defence that libelling Jamal Hijazi was in the public interest has been kicked out by the judge:



> from the _Metro_
> Lawyers for Mr Robinson said he contacted the then-15-year-old boy who pushed Jamal in the footage, who is known in the case as ‘B’, along with three parents of children who had allegedly been assaulted by Jamal. Their application said it was in the public interest to publicise B’s version of events as there was ‘far more to the story’.
> 
> But they will not get to make the defence in court as the judge said there was a ‘complete absence of chronology’ for Mr Robinson’s investigations.
> ...


----------



## teqniq (Dec 16, 2020)

Four year ban from football matches and substantial legal fees 









						Oh Tommy Tommy - YER BARRED
					

After Stephen Yaxley Lennon, who styles himself Tommy Robinson, fetched up on my doorstep  in the dead of night with his pals in tow - twice...




					zelo-street.blogspot.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2020)

teqniq said:


> Four year ban from football matches and substantial legal fees
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Turned out nice again


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 23, 2020)

Intersting piece in The Times regarding  Danny Tommo , once Yaxley Lennon's 'right' hand man. Posters might remember this photo of UKIP round the table with both Y-L and Tommo.



The woman present is  Lisa Barbounis who at the times was working for the  Middle East Forum , a right wing US organisation which funded SYLs activities for a while.  . Long story short, Barbounis parted company with MEF alleging sexual harassment against a senior figure and launched a court case, MEF launch a counter court case which includes allegations that she had an affair with  Tommo , planned to move to the UK to live with him. The allegation is supported by Tommo's  ex missus Jazz Bishop ( who he was still with at the time) who had contacted the MEF about the affair. .Part of the MEF allegations is that monies were spent on 'cocaine which Tommo bought for her and them having a bit of rumpy pumpy in hotels. Approx 7k went to Tommo in purchasing a house . Court documents  claim that Thomas was helping the MEF with its case against Mrs Barbounis but broke off contact. its also alleged that Barbounis now working for some loony Republican   used her position in the House of Representative  to threaten Jazz Bishop( Tommos ex) and Thomas.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 23, 2020)

100% sane and reasonable behaviour from all concerned


----------



## hitmouse (Dec 23, 2020)

The39thStep said:


> Jazz Bishop


That is a FANTASTIC name. I could believe it coming from the same Wu-Tang name generator as Childish Gambino.


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 23, 2020)

hitmouse said:


> That is a FANTASTIC name. I could believe it coming from the same Wu-Tang name generator as Childish Gambino.


I was rather excited about it myself


----------



## Dom Traynor (Dec 23, 2020)

hitmouse said:


> That is a FANTASTIC name. I could believe it coming from the same Wu-Tang name generator as Childish Gambino.



Sounds like one of Howard Moons mentors from an episode of Mighty Boosh.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 6, 2021)




----------



## two sheds (Mar 6, 2021)

filed for bankruptcy _before _the trial. Does this make him even more of a cunt than I'd previously imagined?


----------



## Ax^ (Mar 6, 2021)

how deep is your imagination?


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 6, 2021)

Apparently he’s got some dosh squirrelled away in Bitcoin


----------



## two sheds (Mar 6, 2021)

A mate wasn't allowed to Appeal a judgement against him because the original court case (which he'd won) had bankrupted him. I wonder if this means he can't fight the court case and (with luck) judgement will be entered against him? Someone who knows? 

A quick search and there's: "If you bring a civil case against someone and they file bankruptcy, your lawsuit is stopped by the automatic stay."

Wonder what that means in practice.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 6, 2021)

two sheds said:


> A mate wasn't allowed to Appeal a judgement against him because the original court case (which he'd won) had bankrupted him. I wonder if this means he can't fight the court case and (with luck) judgement will be entered against him? Someone who knows?
> 
> A quick search and there's: "If you bring a civil case against someone and they file bankruptcy, your lawsuit is stopped by the automatic stay."
> 
> Wonder what that means in practice.


Good point . Last week he appeared in court representing himself to request an adjournment which he was granted,  but for a very short period . Didn’t declare he was seeking bankruptcy ( not that he had to ) but did comment that he was short of funds to the extent that his house was no longer in his name .


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 6, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> Good point . Last week he appeared in court representing himself to request an adjournment which he was granted,  but for a very short period . Didn’t declare he was seeking bankruptcy ( not that he had to ) but did comment that he was short of funds to the extent that his house was no longer in his name .



He put it in his wife's name didn't he?

This timing of this bankruptcy filling is very convenient.


----------



## krtek a houby (Mar 6, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> how deep is your imagination?



Deeper than TRs pockets


----------



## two sheds (Mar 6, 2021)

My mate who was declared bankrupt had made sure the house was no longer in his name either. Wonder whose name it's in now. Eta no surprise if what Rutita1 said is correct.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 6, 2021)

Rutita1 said:


> He put it in his wife's name didn't he?
> 
> This timing of this bankruptcy filling is very convenient.


If there was a forensic financial investigation of his circumstances a few things would be thrown up. For example FLAF unearthed that he’d put money into a couple of clothing shops selling prime casual gear . His / his missus house was on the market last year and although his trip to Spain ended up as a holiday he went looking at property as some loudmouth real estate merchant told the press that he was his client .


----------



## two sheds (Mar 6, 2021)

As I recall there are rules for declaring yourself bankrupt and what you can and can't do. Lets hope that he can't do what he's been doing


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 6, 2021)

.


----------



## dessiato (Mar 9, 2021)

Rutita1 said:


> .


That's right to the point


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 17, 2021)

More on the misuse of funds:








						Tommy Robinson ‘misused’ donations from far-right supporters
					

Exclusive: EDL founder denies mis-spending donations received after appeals for cash




					www.independent.co.uk
				




(Although frankly it's probably better for everyone if it goes up his nose and on expensive cars than funding political projects).

I guess it's old news that former Tommy cameraman Caolan Robertson is now an anti-extremist / survivor type.


----------



## two sheds (Mar 18, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> (Although frankly it's probably better for everyone if it goes up his nose and on expensive cars than funding political projects).



Well quite, I'm not sure that should be described as "misuse of funds".


----------



## teccuk (Mar 18, 2021)

So he's in the news again. 
Faked video exposed. Independent


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 18, 2021)

teccuk said:


> So he's in the news again.
> Faked video exposed. Independent



Caolan again, he is on a roll. Interesting that he appears to have completely renounced what he did with Yaxley but his mate Lucy Brown appears to have gone full ethno-nationalist.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Caolan again, he is on a roll. Interesting that he appears to have completely renounced what he did with Yaxley but his mate Lucy Brown appears to have gone full ethno-nationalist.


he must have a book coming out the number of times he's been in the indy recently


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 18, 2021)

He’s bankrupt. Morally and financially


----------



## RedRedRose (Mar 19, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> More on the misuse of funds:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


“Robinson denies using cocaine”—I nearly spat out my food. The sheer hilarity.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 19, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> More on the misuse of funds:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





teccuk said:


> So he's in the news again.
> Faked video exposed. Independent


Seems he's not a happy bunny over these stories - and had an interim anti-stalking order slapped on him “over his actions towards a journalist working for the _Independent_ and her partner.”



> ..._Byline Times_ was in attendance at Westminster Magistrates Court this afternoon to hear the case against Yaxley-Lennon, in relation to his actions towards Lizzie Dearden – a reporter for the _Independent_ who specialises in security and extremism – and her partner.
> 
> The court heard that Dearden had sent an email to legal representatives of Yaxley-Lennon, asking him to provide a comment on an article she was preparing on his alleged misuse of donations from his supporters.
> 
> ...







__





						Interim Stalking Protection Order Imposed on Tommy Robinson – Byline Times
					

The English Defence League founder turned up at the home of a journalist who was planning to write an article about him, the court heard




					bylinetimes.com


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 19, 2021)

Cocaine fascism is a helluva drug.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 19, 2021)

> Mr Robertson alleged his employer said he had “mates I’ve got to pay back” for “seshes”. “We realised that he was withdrawing huge amounts of [donations] in cash from a business bank account, and just giving it to his friends who were selling him coke and who he owed for nights out,” he added.



Pretty sure that's an allowable political expense, amirite?


----------



## Dom Traynor (Mar 19, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Cocaine fascism is a helluva drug.



Cocaine anarchism is fun, cocaine fascism is terrifying - the latest Behind the Bastards podcast on the Rise Above Movement has more on that.


----------



## BCBlues (Mar 19, 2021)

So now Yaxley Lennon is classified as a stalker. What a creep.


----------



## teccuk (Mar 26, 2021)

BCBlues said:


> So now Yaxley Lennon is classified as a stalker. What a creep.


I thought he was in Spain these days?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2021)

teccuk said:


> I thought he was in Spain these days?


The master stalker like the stage conjuror is skilled at misdirection


----------



## teccuk (Mar 26, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> The master stalker like the stage conjuror is skilled at misdirection



I might have to stalk facebook's of old acquaintances who still live in L-Town to confirm this one way or another...


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 26, 2021)

teccuk said:


> I thought he was in Spain these days?


Nope. Came back yonks ago. He's just had a restraining order for harassing a journalist who writes for The Independent in the UK.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 4, 2021)




----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 4, 2021)

Badgers said:


>



Gave up after 45 seconds, does he plead for money?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 4, 2021)

Summary - He’s sick of it. He has been told no bail. He cannot say anything these days. Refers to podcast with bald headed geordie gangsta wannabe chump Steve Wraith. What kibnnd if country are we living in. Sick of it.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 4, 2021)

Does anyone know what kind of nonsense he said on the podcast?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 4, 2021)

I can’t face listening the either of them tbh


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 4, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> I can’t face listening the either of them tbh


Fair.


----------



## steveseagull (Apr 4, 2021)

RedRedRose said:


> “Robinson denies using cocaine”—I nearly spat out my food. The sheer hilarity.



I have had a face to face conversation (fairly amicable) when he was out of his brain on chang. He speaks at 75MPH and wavers from subject to subject. he has serious brain rot.


----------



## BigMoaner (Apr 5, 2021)

steveseagull said:


> I have had a face to face conversation (fairly amicable) when he was out of his brain on chang. He speaks at 75MPH and wavers from subject to subject. he has serious brain rot.


The way he looks and talks screams cocaine. He's got that weird jaw thing that coke users sometimes seem to have when sober.


----------



## BigMoaner (Apr 5, 2021)

I wish his followers would see that his "freedom of speach" and "fearlessness" and all that shit is just a grift. It's all based on views and book sells. His political narrative needs to keep going so the cunt can pay his mortgage.


----------



## kenny g (Apr 5, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> The way he looks and talks screams cocaine. He's got that weird jaw thing that coke users sometimes seem to have when sober.


Someone needs to get him on the pipe. Wouldn't wish it on anyone - but him.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 13, 2021)

Fucking asylum seeking freeloaders 





__





						Tommy Robinson asked wealthy US backers to help him claim asylum | Tommy Robinson | The Guardian
					

British far-right activist’s team also approached Republican senator Ted Cruz’s office about securing a visa




					amp.theguardian.com


----------



## two sheds (Apr 21, 2021)

Tommy Robinson’s ‘lies’ about Syrian schoolboy forced family to flee, court told
					

EDL founder claimed Jamal Hijazi was ‘not innocent’ after footage of attack on student went viral




					www.theguardian.com
				






> The founder of the English Defence League (EDL) – whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon – is being sued by the family of Jamal Hijazi after he “peddled false and defamatory lies” online about the teenager.
> 
> The two came face to face at the high court on the first day of the libel trial as the student was cross-examined by Robinson, who is representing himself. He was told by Mr Justice Nicklin that the burden of proving the claims rested with him.



bit of a shame that


----------



## Dystopiary (Apr 21, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Tommy Robinson’s ‘lies’ about Syrian schoolboy forced family to flee, court told
> 
> 
> EDL founder claimed Jamal Hijazi was ‘not innocent’ after footage of attack on student went viral
> ...



Nasty.


----------



## RedRedRose (Apr 23, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Tommy Robinson’s ‘lies’ about Syrian schoolboy forced family to flee, court told
> 
> 
> EDL founder claimed Jamal Hijazi was ‘not innocent’ after footage of attack on student went viral
> ...


What could possibly go wrong?


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 23, 2021)

His star witness may have credibility problems 
“The QC noted the witness's school records have150 pages of reports of disciplinary incidenst including /2bullying, intimidation and violence," as well as intimidating teachers, and had been temporarily excluded from school 19 times.
He agrees he had a "troubled time," at school.”


----------



## 19force8 (Apr 23, 2021)

RedRedRose said:


> > Guardian said:
> >
> > Robinson, who is representing himself
> 
> ...


Surely there must be one barrister willing to take on a bankrupt liar in such an important case


----------



## two sheds (Apr 26, 2021)

Syrian teenager suing Tommy Robinson for libel seeks up to £190,000 damages
					

Jamal Hijazi was attacked in a Huddersfield playground and had to flee town after far-right activist aired ‘anti-Muslim’ claims about him




					www.theguardian.com
				




Perhaps we could arrange a whip-round


----------



## two sheds (Apr 26, 2021)

Syrian teenager suing Tommy Robinson for libel seeks up to £190,000 damages
					

Jamal Hijazi was attacked in a Huddersfield playground and had to flee town after far-right activist aired ‘anti-Muslim’ claims about him




					www.theguardian.com
				




DP

Perhaps we could arrange two whip-rounds


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 19, 2021)

Judgement due on this at 2pm today


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 19, 2021)

Judgement day, excellent, I suppose it's too much to ask for him to be terminated.


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 19, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> Intersting piece in The Times regarding  Danny Tommo , once Yaxley Lennon's 'right' hand man. Posters might remember this photo of UKIP round the table with both Y-L and Tommo.
> 
> View attachment 244907
> 
> The woman present is  Lisa Barbounis who at the times was working for the  Middle East Forum , a right wing US organisation which funded SYLs activities for a while.  . Long story short, Barbounis parted company with MEF alleging sexual harassment against a senior figure and launched a court case, MEF launch a counter court case which includes allegations that she had an affair with  Tommo , planned to move to the UK to live with him. The allegation is supported by Tommo's  ex missus Jazz Bishop ( who he was still with at the time) who had contacted the MEF about the affair. .Part of the MEF allegations is that monies were spent on 'cocaine which Tommo bought for her and them having a bit of rumpy pumpy in hotels. Approx 7k went to Tommo in purchasing a house . Court documents  claim that Thomas was helping the MEF with its case against Mrs Barbounis but broke off contact. its also alleged that Barbounis now working for some loony Republican   used her position in the House of Representative  to threaten Jazz Bishop( Tommos ex) and Thomas.



Fascinating post- although this photo not _quite_ as excruciating as them signing up to weirdo far-right chancer Paul Weston's "British Freedom Party" in 2012. One of the more awkward and cackhanded press conferences I've ever seen. 

Weston goes through far-right groupuscules the way that wayward unfit footballers go through fourth division clubs. Since the BFP the posh oddball has led and folded at least two other outfits and was last heard of scrambling for a place on the sub's bench of "For Britain".


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 19, 2021)

steeplejack said:


> Fascinating post- although this photo not _quite_ as excruciating as them signing up to weirdo far-right chancer Paul Weston's "British Freedom Party" in 2012. One of the more awkward and cackhanded press conferences I've ever seen.
> 
> Weston goes through far-right groupuscules the way that wayward unfit footballers go through fourth division clubs. Since the BFP the posh oddball has led and folded at least two other outfits and was last heard of scrambling for a place on the sub's bench of "For Britain".
> 
> View attachment 279400


Remember that event/non event . On the face of it it had some potential, aside from Weston's ineptitude I cant help thinking if there was some sabotage ?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 19, 2021)

If we're doing the greatest hits, then the Quilliam debacle must surely rank up there


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 19, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> Remember that event/non event . On the face of it it had some potential, aside from Weston's ineptitude I cant help thinking if there was some sabotage ?



One of the original angry far right bloggers. The fact that he sounded more like the Archbishop of Canterbury meant that no one took him very seriously, I suspect. Just remember that event being super stilted and odd, with Cousin Kev desperately trying to read his own membership card on camera. IIRC Cousin Kev ended up as the chairman whilst the ousted Paul took his perfect clipped diction with him and formed Liberty GB, which later then flirted before joining up with For Britain, then there was Pegida UK... (cont'd p.88 column 4)


----------



## Raheem (Jul 19, 2021)

I hope they've got a plan for dealing with him pretending to be broke and unable to pay up.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 19, 2021)

That's it, make the cunt sweat a big longer.   



> Mr Justice Nicklin was due to hand down his written judgment on Monday; however, the ruling has now been postponed.











						Tommy Robinson must wait for ruling on Syrian teenager’s libel claim
					

The English Defence League founder is being sued by Jamal Hijazi.




					www.standard.co.uk


----------



## BCBlues (Jul 19, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> That's it, make the cunt sweat a big longer.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



With luck it might keep the scumbag quiet for a bit longer too


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2021)

Raheem said:


> I hope they've got a plan for dealing with him pretending to be broke and unable to pay up.


something painful i hope


----------



## salem (Jul 19, 2021)

I'm getting more Pepsi than Coke vibes from this pic


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 19, 2021)

I only reported what I was told 

not much of a defence really. Toot Tommy  will have no assets to grab either


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 19, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> I only reported what I was told
> 
> not much of a defence really. Toot Tommy  will have no assets to grab either


not if rumours of his steroid habit have any truth behind them


----------



## Raheem (Jul 19, 2021)

salem said:


> View attachment 279450
> 
> I'm getting more Pepsi than Coke vibes from this pic


They are getting their credit cards out, though.


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 19, 2021)

_Take the fascist challenge with Tommy_


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 19, 2021)

I suppose the fact that he’s going to receive notification of the court result is a two edged sword . It spares him the embarrassment of a piss poor turnout at the court but gives him another victim card that his support were denied ‘their right’ to show there support. Either way if he’s guilty the bowl is coming out .


----------



## two sheds (Jul 19, 2021)

puke bowl


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 19, 2021)

Bring back disembowlment 😡


----------



## existentialist (Jul 19, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Bring back disembowlment 😡


I think he's going to have a bit of a bowl movement when the verdict drops on his head.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 19, 2021)

As far as I can see his defence is “Someone told me he done it and that is why I published.”

I am no legal expert but I believe that is known amongst the bewigged in chambers as ‘shockingly fucking shite’.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 19, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> ‘shockingly fucking shite’.



'Horribilis fornicandum excrementum'


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 19, 2021)

JuanTwoThree said:


> 'Horribilis fornicandum excrementum'



I bow to my learned friend’s superior knowledgez


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 19, 2021)

Unfortunately any fine he gets will be covered and then some by all the dickwits who chip into his inevitable crowdfunder.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 19, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> Unfortunately any fine he gets will be covered and then some by all the dickwits who chip into his inevitable crowdfunder.


Could be quite a big payout. There's obvious malice and the family had to leave town. I don't know how much he would expect from crowdfunding.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 22, 2021)

It was, indeed, quite a big payout:


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 22, 2021)

What with this and National Action's Dymock going down for 7 years for leading a proscribed Nazi organisation it has been quite the week for anti-fascist court spotters.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 22, 2021)

"I was only reporting what people told me" 

What an absolute dickhead.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 22, 2021)

Full judgement here



			https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Hijazi-v-Yaxley-Lennon-summary-220721.pdf


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 22, 2021)

From the judge:

The most significant element of the damages award that I fix will be the need for vindication. This judgment – but more importantly – the award of damages will mark clearly that the Defendant has failed to demonstrate the truth of his allegations. The Defendant took on the burden of proving his allegations to be true. He has failed. In reality, and for the reasons I have explained, his evidence fell woefully short. He has, however, persisted with the serious allegations he originally made, and has even added to them during the proceedings. The Claimant has had to face them in the full glare and publicity of a High Court trial. It is my responsibility to make clear that the Defendant has failed in his defence of truth, to vindicate the Claimant and to award him a sum in damages that represents fair compensation. The sum I award is £100,000.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 22, 2021)

Presumably it's £100k plus costs? Ouch.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 22, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Presumably it's £100k plus costs? Ouch.


He'll have to knock his coke habit on the head


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 22, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Presumably it's £100k plus costs? Ouch.



None of the reports mention costs, but lots have this line 'A hearing will follow Thursday’s judgment to consider the consequences of the ruling', maybe that's when costs will be considered. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 22, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> Full judgement here
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.judiciary.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Hijazi-v-Yaxley-Lennon-summary-220721.pdf


Only it's a summary


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 22, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Only it's a summary


Summary + full here 




__





						Hijazi -v- Yaxley-Lennon
					

Neutral Citation Number: [2021] EWHC 2008 (QB) Case No: QB-2019-001740 In the High Court of Justice Queen’s Bench Division Royal Courts of Justice 22 July 2021 Before : The Honourable Mr Justice Nicklin Between : Jamal Hijazi – Claimant – and – Stephen Yaxley-Lennon – Defendant




					www.judiciary.uk
				




I've only skimmed both but there is quite a touching bit in one of them where the judge says he reckons the kid who attacked Jamal Hijazi is also a victim and has been used by Yaxley.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 22, 2021)

So what happens now? If Y-L doesn't pay, does the plaintiff have to enforce the judgement, or is it just a straight contempt of court?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 22, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> None of the reports mention costs, but lots have this line 'A hearing will follow Thursday’s judgment to consider the consequences of the ruling', maybe that's when costs will be considered. 🤷‍♂️


Yes that's what I figured. I'm struggling to imagine the judge being overly sympathetic given the above. 

£100k on its own is a pretty big crowdfunder.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 22, 2021)

existentialist said:


> So what happens now? If Y-L doesn't pay, does the plaintiff have to enforce the judgement, or is it just a straight contempt of court?


Not sure. Can he declare himself bankrupt?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 22, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Only it's a summary


Just be grateful I posted the summary up eh?


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 22, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Not sure. Can he declare himself bankrupt?


Think he had already done so or at least said he was . House isn’t in his name etc . Just have to wait for his response, not sure if there is an appeal process or if there is how he’d fund it


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 22, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> He'll have to knock his coke habit on the head


Or ramp up the 'commercial' side of his hobby.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 22, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> Think he had already done so or at least said he was . House isn’t in his name etc . Just have to wait for his response, not sure if there is an appeal process or if there is how he’d fund it


Can he appeal if he's been made bankrupt? I'd thought not.


----------



## steveseagull (Jul 22, 2021)

The Telegram grift has already started. The problem with this grift is his supporters will be giving money to a Syrian refugee


----------



## existentialist (Jul 22, 2021)

steveseagull said:


> The Telegram grift has already started. The problem with this grift is his supporters will be giving money to a Syrian refugee
> 
> View attachment 279982


I don't particularly mind if a bunch of racists have to scrape money together to give it to a brown person. In fact, I hope that their noses are regularly rubbed in it.


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 22, 2021)

Costs follow the event, so as Yaxley lost the case, he'll normally be ordered to pay the costs. Costs for a case like that could be £50k to £200k depending on the length of the trial etc. 

If he's bankrupt, by definition he doesn't have money to pay. But if he's going to be getting money from his OnlyFans or whatever, that income can be tapped into to pay the damages and the costs. It's not straightforward to do though as Yaxley will probably set it up so the money is never in his hands, and so can't be touched


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2021)

LOLcakes in the oven!



> *Anti-Islam activist Tommy Robinson has lost a High Court libel case brought by a Syrian schoolboy.
> *
> Jamal Hijazi was filmed being attacked in the playground at Almondbury School in Huddersfield in October 2018.
> 
> ...











						Tommy Robinson loses Jamal Hijazi libel case
					

The High Court orders the anti-Islam activist to pay a teenage refugee £100,000 in damages.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 22, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Can he appeal if he's been made bankrupt? I'd thought not.


God knows however there may be two questions or more . Is their a legal right to appeal the decision and secondly does that route require means beyond what he has .


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 22, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> God knows however there may be two questions or more . Is their a legal right to appeal the decision and secondly does that route require means beyond what he has .



He's representing himself so an appeal wouldn't cost anything.

You need leave to appeal many court decisions. I'm not sure about defamation cases

e2a. He would need permission to appeal.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 22, 2021)

Bat on twitter flagged this up re: costs:

"Robinson was also ordered to pay the costs of the libel action, but will not have to pay any money immediately as he is currently bankrupt."









						Tommy Robinson loses libel case against Syrian schoolboy
					

The English Defence League founder was sued by Jamal Hijazi, a Syrian schoolboy who was filmed being assaulted at his school in 2018




					www.standard.co.uk


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 22, 2021)

Some good clarifications rubbershoes nice one.

Bit of a charade if he can wriggle out of it but the judgement is clear. Obviously I would like the lot paid in full...


----------



## existentialist (Jul 22, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Some good clarifications rubbershoes nice one.
> 
> Bit of a charade if he can wriggle out of it but the judgement is clear. Obviously I would like the lot paid in full...


I imagine that this means that for the next quite a few years, Yaxley-Lemon and his financial affairs are going to be very much under scrutiny.

I wonder what happens if he continues to perpetrate libels to take advantage of the fact that he's effectively "judgement proof"?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jul 22, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I imagine that this means that for the next quite a few years, Yaxley-Lemon and his financial affairs are going to be very much under scrutiny.
> 
> I wonder what happens if he continues to perpetrate libels to take advantage of the fact that he's effectively "judgement proof"?


Quite. If he is constantly successfully begging for money but remains bankrupt then questions will be asked you'd think.

And as he knows from the "filming court attendees" debacle, if you keep doing the same thing you end up with a custodial.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 22, 2021)

Update from the BBC, could be £500k in costs. 



> The English Defence League founder, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, claimed Mr Hijazi attacked "young English girls".
> Mr Justice Nicklin ruled in Mr Hijazi's favour and granted him £100,000 in damages.
> He was also ordered to pay legal costs which the BBC understands amount to about £500,000.
> *The final figures will be agreed and submitted to the High Court as part of forthcoming hearings to establish his means and assets.*



There's going to be some sort of special judicial hearing to find out what assets he may have hidden.









						Tommy Robinson loses Jamal Hijazi libel case
					

The High Court orders the anti-Islam activist to pay a teenage refugee £100,000 in damages.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## existentialist (Jul 22, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Update from the BBC, could be £500k in costs.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Are we breaking bbc links now?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 22, 2021)

Estimate of costs in that BBC item...£500k


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 22, 2021)

If has good advice, there is no reason for him to ever hold any assets in his name again. He can continue this civil action performances for as long as he wants.he’s a twat but not thick. Why bother suing if you have to pay your own costs. Nice little paradigm going on there


----------



## JimW (Jul 22, 2021)

News stories repeating his falsehoods in detail seems a bit off, couldn't they just say he made allegations.


----------



## JimW (Jul 22, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Estimate of costs in that BBC item...£500k


Fuck him but that's gross isn't it? Justice at a hefty price.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 22, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> If has good advice, there is no reason for him to ever hold any assets in his name again. He can continue this civil action performances for as long as he wants.he’s a twat but not thick. Why bother suing if you have to pay your own costs. Nice little paradigm going on there


Of course, this presumably works the other way around.

If he is bankrupt and unable to pay costs and damages awarded to him, presumably I could - hypothetically - suggest that someone in a similar position to him likes being fucked by shaved goats while under a shower of hazelnut yogurt and pigeon shit, with goldfish nibbling at his bollocks, and there would be nothing that such a hypothetical bankrupt person could do about it...?


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 22, 2021)

Where did the kid get the money to start suing in the first place from? Was there someone with deep pockets and a strong enough dislike of Tommy willing to stake half a million on it?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 22, 2021)

JimW said:


> Fuck him but that's gross isn't it? Justice at a hefty price.


Not in this case


----------



## Badgers (Jul 22, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Where did the kid get the money to start suing in the first place from? Was there someone with deep pockets and a strong enough dislike of Tommy willing to stake half a million on it?


Most of the country and a lot of lawyers


----------



## andysays (Jul 22, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Where did the kid get the money to start suing in the first place from? Was there someone with deep pockets and a strong enough dislike of Tommy willing to stake half a million on it?


From the BBC report



> Jamal Hijazi's lawyers welcomed the judgement and praised Mr Hijazi's "courage" in pursuing the claim. Francesca Flood, from Burlingtons Legal, said: "Jamal and his family now wish to put this matter behind them in order that they can get on with their lives. They do, however, wish to extend their gratitude to the Great British public for their support and generosity, without which this legal action would not have been possible."


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 22, 2021)

shame its not more his networth is listed around a million


----------



## Raheem (Jul 22, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Where did the kid get the money to start suing in the first place from? Was there someone with deep pockets and a strong enough dislike of Tommy willing to stake half a million on it?


I don't know if someone funded it, but in any event I expect a lot of law firms will be willing to take a high-profile case like this, with a high probability of success, on no-win-no-fee terms.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 22, 2021)

Raheem said:


> I don't know if someone funded it, but in any event I expect a lot of law firms will be willing to take a high-profile case like this, with a high probability of success, on no-win-no-fee terms.



That would kind of backfire here, *if* he has no money, they won't get paid.


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 22, 2021)

he claimed bankrupcy before the trial

have to ponder whos name is on the 900k house atm


----------



## Raheem (Jul 22, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> That would kind of backfire here, *if* he has no money, they won't get paid.


I'm not sure that's exactly how it works, but they will have had a good idea what the risk of not getting paid was. They may have felt it was worth it for the kudos. They will be able to mention it on their website forever.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 22, 2021)

Raheem said:


> I'm not sure that's exactly how it works, but they will have had a good idea what the risk of not getting paid was. They may have felt it was worth it for the kudos. They will be able to mention it on their website forever.



Yes, that's true. A fairly straight forward case too.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 22, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> he claimed bankrupcy before the trial
> 
> have to ponder whos name is on the 900k house atm




Yeah, declaring yourself bankrupt 3 months before a libel trial must make courts a bit 

Surely they have the power to look in to this shit?


----------



## Yossarian (Jul 22, 2021)

If he hasn't got the cash, maybe somebody should start a "Help Tommy Robinson" fundraiser to trick his supporters into paying the settlement.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 22, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> If he hasn't got the cash, maybe somebody should start a "Help Tommy Robinson" fundraiser to trick his supporters into paying the settlement.


Tommy Robinson being, of course, a nickname for Shamima Begum.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 22, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Yeah, declaring yourself bankrupt 3 months before a libel trial must make courts a bit
> 
> Surely they have the power to look in to this shit?


IANAL, but I'd say "I've given everything to my wife, so..." might not be foolproof.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 22, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> he claimed bankrupcy before the trial
> 
> have to ponder whos name is on the 900k house atm


His wife apparently


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 22, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Where did the kid get the money to start suing in the first place from? Was there someone with deep pockets and a strong enough dislike of Tommy willing to stake half a million on it?


There was a crowdfunding initially


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 22, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> If he hasn't got the cash, maybe somebody should start a "Help Tommy Robinson" fundraiser to trick his supporters into paying the settlement.


Followed by a crowdfunder to launch an IP/TM legal action on behalf of the original Luton hooligan whose name he appropriated


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 22, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Where did the kid get the money to start suing in the first place from? Was there someone with deep pockets and a strong enough dislike of Tommy willing to stake half a million on it?



it has president you heard what happened to katie hopkins, if not look it up its funnier than a house landing on her head


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 22, 2021)

Here's a report to remind us about his bankruptcy, and how they are trying to unearth his hidden assets.



> In 2018, he claimed to have received £350,000 in donations in just two weeks and made more than £2 million, The Times reported.
> 
> The official receiver will now search for concealed assets under other people's names, after Robinson, 38, used the name Stephen Lennon for his bankruptcy, The Times reported.











						Luton's Tommy Robinson declares bankruptcy as court battle looms
					

The former EDL leader is being sued for libel




					www.bedfordshirelive.co.uk


----------



## StoneRoad (Jul 22, 2021)

I really think that failing to pay the full amount of damages and costs awarded should be an automatic contempt of court.
The plaintiff should not need to have another case to force the defendant ("bankrupt" or not) to pay up, especially when the defendant defaults on agreements / commitments to pay.

[And I am speaking as someone has suffered from not being able to get such damages & costs paid to them, on more than one occasion and I might have to go down the court route again in the near future.]


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 22, 2021)

StoneRoad said:


> I really think that failing to pay the full amount of damages and costs awarded should be an automatic contempt of court.
> The plaintiff should not need to have another case to force the defendant ("bankrupt" or not) to pay up, especially when the defendant defaults on agreements / commitments to pay.
> 
> [And I am speaking as someone has suffered from not being able to get such damages & costs paid to them, on more than one occasion and I might have to go down the court route again in the near future.]




Why when you libel someone in such a manner that they must abandon their education and leave their home/town, is the only sanction for causing that harm a financial one that may or may not be avoided by pretending not to have any money? If you damage people's lives in other ways you are often required to take a hit to your own life in the form of loss of liberty, and all that can follow from that.


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 22, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> Where did the kid get the money to start suing in the first place from? Was there someone with deep pockets and a strong enough dislike of Tommy willing to stake half a million on it?



A lot of defamation work is done on no win no fee so if Jamal had lost his lawyers would have been entitled to fuck all


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 22, 2021)

Raheem said:


> IANAL, but I'd say "I've given everything to my wife, so..." might not be foolproof.


It was for Green.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 22, 2021)

rubbershoes said:


> A lot of defamation work is done on no win no fee so if Jamal had lost his lawyers would have been entitled to fuck all


I've learn't something new there, I thought only injury cases were eligible for no win, no fee. Sadly of course 'Tommeh' will no doubt do his weasly best to weasel out of paying.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 22, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> I've learn't something new there, I thought only injury cases were eligible for no win, no fee. Sadly of course 'Tommeh' will no doubt do his weasly best to weasel out of paying.




With a bit of luck he'll weasel his way in to some more contempt of court, judges love that shit...


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 22, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> I've learn't something new there, I thought only injury cases were eligible for no win, no fee. Sadly of course 'Tommeh' will no doubt do his weasly best to weasel out of paying.



Nope. Defamation too.

On a no win no fee case the lawyer charges a success fee if they win. So the costs here may well be £250k with a 100% success fee.

Transactions that aren't legit or for full value can be reversed. So if he gave his wife his house or sold it for a lot less than the real value, that transaction can be undone. And because he's so hated, I can see the person running his bankruptcy really getting into all the nooks of his finances


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 22, 2021)

There’s an assumption that the gaff was in both their names & was transferred This may not ever have been the case.report above suggests it was never in their names


----------



## Raheem (Jul 22, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> There’s an assumption that the gaff was in both their names & was transferred This may not ever have been the case.report above suggests it was never in their names


Maybe, but in that case, where's his money gone?

(And, no, "up his nose" isn't an answer.)


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 22, 2021)

Doesn’t really matter, he’s not thick enough to have stuff in his name surely. I have known serial bankrupters (cunts) who never had a penny when it got legal and they stayed  legal if structured correctly

This is why the shitty people stay wealthy and those who work are screwed


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 22, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> it has president you heard what happened to katie hopkins, if not look it up its funnier than a house landing on her head



I guess you mean precedent? Do you have a link? I'm curious, but don't want to trawl through pages of tedious nonsense about that Ms Hopkins.


----------



## Riklet (Jul 22, 2021)

Lol this cunt is going to get rinsed of every penny.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 22, 2021)

Riklet said:


> Lol this cunt is going to get rinsed of every penny.



I imagine he’ll be having issues getting it up for his wank tonight 😀


----------



## Raheem (Jul 22, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> Doesn’t really matter, he’s not thick enough to have stuff in his name surely. I have known serial bankrupters (cunts) who never had a penny when it got legal and they stayed  legal if structured correctly
> 
> This is why the shitty people stay wealthy and those who work are screwed


But the situation here is not that he's declaring bankruptcy - he's already done that. It's that he's pleading no means. It's different process, and he will need to convince the court that it is actually not possible for him to pay, rather than that he meets a set of criteria. I think he'll find it difficult unless all the money he's piled up is actually disbursed (spent and gone). Claiming not to have any money because he's given it to his wife is unlikely to work IMO.


----------



## two sheds (Jul 22, 2021)

Raheem said:


> Claiming not to have any money because he's given it to his wife is unlikely to work IMO.


I think it depends when it was done. If it was when it became clear he was going to lose then he's presumably in trouble. If it was before the court case then I think he's clear.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 22, 2021)

Yep but as I have said, I don’t underestimate this odious turd - he could now be in a position to use his economic status to thwart any future libel actions before they start. Depending on how he’s done this and his plans to remain in the public eye, this could be a new trajectory for his juggernaut of hate


----------



## Dandred (Jul 22, 2021)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 23, 2021)




----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 23, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I guess you mean precedent? Do you have a link? I'm curious, but don't want to trawl through pages of tedious nonsense about that Ms Hopkins.



Jack Monroe successfully sued Hopkins for libel when she'd tweeted that Monroe had defaced a war memorial . Hopkins had to sell her house in Exeter to pay the award and the costs.

IIRC Monroe gave the money to charity.

 Monroe had previously told Hopkins that she wouldn't sue if she apologised and gave £5k to a refugee charity but Hopkins is of course a dunder headed bigot and wouldn't


----------



## Ax^ (Jul 23, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I guess you mean precedent? Do you have a link? I'm curious, but don't want to trawl through pages of tedious nonsense about that Ms Hopkins.


Monroe v Hopkins - Wikipedia


----------



## brogdale (Jul 23, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


>



A collection of milk (shake) bottle tops?


----------



## rubbershoes (Jul 23, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> Monroe v Hopkins - Wikipedia



May I refer the honourable gentleman to the link in the previous fucking post to his


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 23, 2021)




----------



## keybored (Sep 2, 2021)

He's been back in court in relation to intimidating Lizzie Dearden.









						Tommy Robinson hired private investigator to find journalist's home address
					

The EDL is in court regarding an application for a stalking protection order after turning up unannounced at a journalist's home.




					metro.co.uk


----------



## eatmorecheese (Sep 2, 2021)

Cokey comeuppance. Stupid twat.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 2, 2021)

Looks like he's been putting plenty of that 'unreliable sauce' he keeps mentioning on his chips


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

Fuck Tommy Robinson, but fair play for attempting to make a journalist accountable for what they've written. Just my opinion.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Fuck Tommy Robinson, but fair play for attempting to make a journalist accountable for what they've written. Just my opinion.


By going round their house in the dead of night??


----------



## existentialist (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Fuck Tommy Robinson, but fair play for attempting to make a journalist accountable for what they've written. Just my opinion.


And how was he "making a journalist accountable for what they've written" by committing an act of harassment?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Fuck Tommy Robinson, but fair play for attempting to make a journalist accountable for what they've written. Just my opinion.


ah - you're of the boris johnson / darius guppy school of journalistic accountability


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Fuck Tommy Robinson, but fair play for attempting to make a journalist accountable for what they've written. Just my opinion.



You're a twat. 

And, I doubt that is just my opinion.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 3, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> You're a twat.
> 
> And, I doubt that is just my opinion.


It's not. I think he's a twat, too.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> You're a twat.
> 
> And, I doubt that is just my opinion.


and mine


----------



## BillRiver (Sep 3, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> You're a twat.
> 
> And, I doubt that is just my opinion.



That post (by cyril_smear) was certainly very twattish.


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> You're a twat.
> 
> And, I doubt that is just my opinion.


There's an old saying isn't there? Fight fire with fire! Maybe more people should use the very tactics(door stepping in this case) that reporters use. She didn't like the very thing that she does for a living happening to her. Oh the fucking irony of it.


----------



## Raheem (Sep 3, 2021)

She probably doesn't have multiple convictions for assault, though.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> There's an old saying isn't there? Fight fire with fire! Maybe more people should use the very tactics(door stepping in this case) that reporters use. She didn't like the very thing that she does for a living happening to her. Oh the fucking irony of it.


I'm not especially surprised that it's you, of all people, who is seeking to excuse this twat's outrageous behaviour.


----------



## BillRiver (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> There's an old saying isn't there? Fight fire with fire! Maybe more people should use the very tactics(door stepping in this case) that reporters use. She didn't like the very thing that she does for a living happening to her. Oh the fucking irony of it.


----------



## keybored (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> There's an old saying isn't there? Fight fire with fire!


I must have missed the bit where Dearden was hammering on Stephen's door in the small hours.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 3, 2021)

TR also spread completely imaginary rumours that her partner was a paedophile. Common press accountability tactic that.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> There's an old saying isn't there? Fight fire with fire! Maybe more people should use the very tactics(door stepping in this case) that reporters use. She didn't like the very thing that she does for a living happening to her. Oh the fucking irony of it.



She worked for The Independent, not the bloody Sun or Mail, so is unlikely to be the 'door stepping' type.

But, hey, you think it's fine for a convicted thug to turn-up at night to harass and intimidate a young female reporter, kicking off outside, and shouting that her innocent partner is a ‘paedophile.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 3, 2021)

Journalists don’t usually shout abuse through peoples letterboxes


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I'm not especially surprised that it's you, of all people, who is seeking to excuse this twat's outrageous behaviour.


I think he’s a cunt, frankly. But I find this case hilarious. Reporter takes offence at having privacy invaded... you couldn’t make it.


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> Journalists don’t usually shout abuse through peoples letterboxes


Don’t they?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 3, 2021)

Robinson calls himself a journalist all the time, so, I guess at least one does. If you believe him.


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

keybored said:


> I must have missed the bit where Dearden was hammering on Stephen's door in the small hours.


Nah, her newspaper probably hired a private dick to do that.


----------



## andysays (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> There's an old saying isn't there? Fight fire with fire! Maybe more people should use the very tactics(door stepping in this case) that reporters use. She didn't like the very thing that she does for a living happening to her. Oh the fucking irony of it.


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

andysays said:


> View attachment 286542


Obviously you haven’t had the pleasure of encountering me before.


----------



## existentialist (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Obviously you haven’t had the pleasure of encountering me before.


I haven't had the pleasure of encountering you before, either. Which isn't to say that I haven't - just that the encounters have never, by any measure, been pleasurable.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Obviously you haven’t had the pleasure of encountering me before.


The same sort of pleasure as finding you've sat on puke


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Fuck Tommy Robinson, but fair play for attempting to make a journalist accountable for what they've written. Just my opinion.



seriously wtf


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> seriously wtf


Ye, cos journalists are known for being upstanding members of the community with unshakeable morals. 

If this had been anybody but that troglodyte Robinson we'd all be licking their arse for giving a journo a bit of a comeuppance. I've no real empathy for journos, and yes I do stick them all in the same category; so what?


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> The same sort of pleasure as finding you've sat on puke


just fuck off.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

jorno do bad stuff


so showing up at their house at in the early hours like some coked up asshole to prove you not spent donation in bad faith and call their partner a pedo whilst beeping your car horn  is ok


if you have a grudge against journalists fair enough

defending a coked up racist actions because of your pet peev  is fucking weird


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 3, 2021)

There is nothing especially sacred about the profession of journalism, but the abuse meted out to Dearden by Yaxley-Lennon is excessive and that's before we get started on all the shit his followers will have done in his name - online and off. (We need to remember that guy who drove all the way from Cardiff with Tommy's tweets selotaped to his dashboard to run into a crowd of Muslims in Finsbury Park a few years back).

She seems better than many, and has done a fair bit of decent reporting on the far right. This is about the twat James Goddard and is from last year:









						Abuse has become the price I pay for being a journalist
					

A far-right activist has been convicted over a confrontation with The Independent’s Lizzie Dearden. But the incident, she writes, is just one flashpoint in an endless torrent of vitriol she receives for writing about terrorism and the far-right




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> jorno do bad stuff
> 
> 
> so showing up at their house at in the early hours like some coked up asshole to prove you not spent donation in bad faith and *call their partner a pedo w*hilst beeping your car horn  is ok
> ...


Fuck em! I guess one of them at least now knows how it feels to have these allegations plastered all over. How many times has the meedya done this to people, ruined peoples careers etc.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

thats like trying to defend maggie because she did not privatise the fucking railways


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> thats like trying to defend maggie because she did not privatise the fucking railways


im not defending him; don't twist what i said, please.

edit: regardless of who did it i'd have the same opinion.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

if you not caughten on to the hole,


you are diggin, let me enlighten you...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> I've no real empathy for journos, and *yes I do stick them all in the same category*; so what?


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> if you not caughten on to the hole,
> 
> 
> you are diggin, let me enlighten you...


you've obviously not had the please of encountering me before either.


----------



## keybored (Sep 3, 2021)

What's with hating every last journalist? Do they not pay you much attention either?


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

you been on the boards for a few years and seem pretty resonable 

but as always want to walk into the politics forum and say going to a women house in the middle of the night and screaming her fella is a pedo

is fine because she is a blood drinking jorno whilst coming across like a tommy robinson aplogist

its your fucking hill to die upon


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> Obviously you haven’t had the pleasure of encountering me before.





cyril_smear said:


> you've obviously not had the please of encountering me before either.


What's this bollocks then?

Are you some kind of hard man?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> you've obviously not had the please of encountering me before either.


This is one of those times when you should have kept quiet and been thought a twat instead of piping up and proving yourself one


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> This is one of those times when you should have kept quiet and been thought a twat instead of piping up and proving yourself one


my perceived persona on here is already that of a twat, I may as well perpetuate that sentiment; and keeping quiet is definitely not my style.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 3, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> What's this bollocks then?
> 
> Are you some kind of hard man?



He thinks he's a hard man, because he boasts about driving uninsured, just about everyone else thinks he's a fucking twat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> im not defending him; don't twist what i said, please.
> 
> edit: regardless of who did it i'd have the same opinion.


you're a great fan of the American army then, who've killed a large number of journos. After all, that's where you're heading isn't it, the only good journo is a dead one.


----------



## keybored (Sep 3, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> you been on the boards for a few years and seem pretty resonable











						Opposition to Islam is not Racism.
					

All these polish,turkish,fucking ingratefull bastard workers has,regardless of what you cunts say, has made me,my mate and my brother cheap fucking labour!!!!!!    That would be your employer shurely?




					www.urban75.net


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

keybored said:


> Opposition to Islam is not Racism.
> 
> 
> All these polish,turkish,fucking ingratefull bastard workers has,regardless of what you cunts say, has made me,my mate and my brother cheap fucking labour!!!!!!    That would be your employer shurely?
> ...


So what. People can, and do, change their minds/outlook on life.


----------



## keybored (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> So what. People can, and do, change their minds/outlook on life.


Maybe, but you'll always be a cunt.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

bit of a bad sign if you appear to be defending the actions of another right wing racist figure head fuck wit

but thats your choice


----------



## MrSki (Sep 3, 2021)

So all journalists are to blame for what some journalists get up to? 

It is like saying all men are rapists. Agree on the twat thing.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 3, 2021)

keybored said:


> Opposition to Islam is not Racism.
> 
> 
> All these polish,turkish,fucking ingratefull bastard workers has,regardless of what you cunts say, has made me,my mate and my brother cheap fucking labour!!!!!!    That would be your employer shurely?
> ...



Was Cyril Badco before?


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Was Cyril Badco before?


so they say.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> so they say.


Are they right?


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

brave sir tommy

who had to hide  in the pedo wings of british prisons


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> im not defending him


Yes you are. You're explicitly defending his actions as fine vs everyone else who is saying that they were shit.


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Are they right?


well IF it is true, I wouldn't be the first person on this forum to admit to having previously held some questionable views. People change/grow up/educate themselves etc.


----------



## keybored (Sep 3, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Was Cyril Badco before?


Yes, and topher25, cdg, philkill, christophucker etc.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> People change/grow up/educate themselves etc.



You don't seem to have grown up.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> well IF it is true, I wouldn't be the first person on this forum to admit to having previously held some questionable views. People change/grow up/educate themselves etc.


You’re not admitting it though? Which would be part of growing up.


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> You’re not admitting it though? Which would be part of growing up.


It would also get me banned from a forum that I enjoy reading and learn a lot from, IF it was me.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 3, 2021)

shall I just ban you now, I can't be arsed refreshing the thread over the weekend


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> *shall I just ban you now*, I can't be arsed refreshing the thread over the weekend


for what exactly?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 3, 2021)

for being a returner

or do we have to do the whole thing


----------



## cyril_smear (Sep 3, 2021)

FridgeMagnet said:


> for being a returner
> 
> or do we have to do the whole thing


How do you know I am or am not


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

log off or fuck off cyril


do you need a mod to make that choice

will being cancalled give you a happy


----------



## keybored (Sep 3, 2021)

cyril_smear said:


> It would also get me banned from a forum that I enjoy reading and learn a lot from, IF it was me.


You'll still be able to read a lot of the boards. You just won't be able to post achingly-edgy controversialist shite any more.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 3, 2021)

Just going to ban him, I really have better things to do.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

if he has that history


cannie blame ya


being an edgy twat is not a free pass


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 3, 2021)

What a trio


----------



## andysays (Sep 3, 2021)

Weekend's off to a good start with a bit of ban hammer action, I see...


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

Well if you want to support racist fuckwits for years

and are inable to show personal growth 

what would you like andy?


----------



## keybored (Sep 3, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> Well if you want to support racist fuckwits for years
> 
> and are inable to show personal growth
> 
> what would you like andy?


They didn't say they didn't like it tbf.


----------



## campanula (Sep 3, 2021)

O. Not normally keen to chip in with controversial opinions, but, I did feel a permanent ban was a bit harsh. While being in complete agreement that Cyril 's cartoon version of the press (and, tbf, not a hill I would die defending myself), I just think this is one of those Urban scenarios where it's easy and obvious to stake out a position and single out an uncomfortable participant. I really, really don't want to get into a massive bunfight here (I have a raging toothache) but, yah know, I kinda think a willingness to engage a bit more before doing the ban thing. Just makes me feel that Urban is not as tolerant of difference as I imagined.
Also, I do believe the CS had indeed been through some personal changes of opinion, even ithough obscured by a chippy, belligerence. Like a lot of my neighbours. I sort of feel this should be nurtured a wee bit.
And I also think this endless refusal to forgive past indiscretion or bad acts is one of the very worst things about Urban.
Apols, I hinestly feel a bit bad about this...even though I also contend CS is indeed something of a twat, i just feel he is not really horrible or irredeemable.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Sep 3, 2021)

He’s progressed from being a total prick to being an apologist for SYL harassing a female journalist?


----------



## keybored (Sep 3, 2021)

campanula said:


> I also contend CS is indeed something of a twat, i just feel he is not really horrible or irredeemable.


He's got a lot of form for a lot worse, on and off the boards, going back well over a decade. If he isn't irredeemable, he's taking his sweet time over it.


----------



## marty21 (Sep 3, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> You're a twat.
> 
> And, I doubt that is just my opinion.


I am in agreement with you .


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

campanula said:


> O. Not normally keen to chip in with controversial opinions, but, I did feel a permanent ban was a bit harsh. While being in complete agreement that Cyril 's cartoon version of the press (and, tbf, not a hill I would die defending myself), I just think this is one of those Urban scenarios where it's easy and obvious to stake out a position and single out an uncomfortable participant. I really, really don't want to get into a massive bunfight here (I have a raging toothache) but, yah know, I kinda think a willingness to engage a bit more before doing the ban thing. Just makes me feel that Urban is not as tolerant of difference as I imagined.
> Also, I do believe the CS had indeed been through some personal changes of opinion, even ithough obscured by a chippy, belligerence. Like a lot of my neighbours. I sort of feel this should be nurtured a wee bit.
> And I also think this endless refusal to forgive past indiscretion or bad acts is one of the very worst things about Urban.
> Apols, I hinestly feel a bit bad about this...even though I also contend CS is indeed something of a twat, i just feel he is not really horrible or irredeemable.



was trying to show the fella that arguement


----------



## campanula (Sep 3, 2021)

Yes, I know. I realise that and feel the coupling of SYL (a cunt of the very worst sort, obvs) and a simplistic and stereotyped view of the Fourth Estate is a bit unfortunate.  I mostly just got the disdain for the media as an institution but I didn't see any defending Yaxley Lennon. I am not sure that this is also much, much worse because LD is both a woman (although I admit to hateful, hateful thoughts towards Laura Kuensberg). I honestly have nothing in defence of CS, just more of a kind of, I dunno, alarm at the speed and severity of a permaban.

Christ, losing any threads of coherence here and wishing I hadn't chirped up. Having difficulty stating exactly what  surprised and, I suppose, vexed me somewhat.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

as a relative newbie of 10 years if you coming across as a racist 10 years ago


and are showing support for other racists 10 years later

maybe you are a dick


----------



## andysays (Sep 3, 2021)

campanula said:


> Yes, I know. I realise that and feel the coupling of SYL (a cunt of the very worst sort, obvs) and a simplistic and stereotyped view of the Fourth Estate is a bit unfortunate.  I mostly just got the disdain for the media as an institution but I didn't see any defending Yaxley Lennon. I am not sure that this is also much, much worse because LD is both a woman (although I admit to hateful, hateful thoughts towards Laura Kuensberg). I honestly have nothing in defence of CS, just more of a kind of, I dunno, alarm at the speed and severity of a permaban.
> 
> Christ, losing any threads of coherence here and wishing I hadn't chirped up. Having difficulty stating exactly what  surprised and, I suppose, vexed me somewhat.



I think it's OK for you to feel and express what you describe as alarm at the speed and severity of a permaban.

I wasn't aware of Cyril Smear's previous incarnation, but they've long come across to me as at least a bit questionable in many of their posts. There was a bit more to it than chippy belligerence. 

This time they failed to judge how far they could push it and dug too deep a hole they couldn't climb out of before it collapsed back on them.


----------



## campanula (Sep 3, 2021)

Yeah, I know. I am not not specifically even defending CS so much as feeling a bit rattled at the very swift banning. I have been banned from a forum and was truly dismayed and upset, especially since CS had said he found value here, not just someone rocking up to be hateful. Anyway, I am now in too much pain to engage (off to the emergency dentist tomorrow).
I am not sure what you are saying @Ax but cba to defend myself from suggestions of dickishness.


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

Campanula

it was cyril choice not yours

pondering what you are defending


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 3, 2021)

.
mistakes where made


----------



## existentialist (Sep 4, 2021)

campanula said:


> Yeah, I know. I am not not specifically even defending CS so much as feeling a bit rattled at the very swift banning. I have been banned from a forum and was truly dismayed and upset, especially since CS had said he found value here, not just someone rocking up to be hateful. Anyway, I am now in too much pain to engage (off to the emergency dentist tomorrow).
> I am not sure what you are saying @Ax but cba to defend myself from suggestions of dickishness.


My take on this, FWIW, is this. The poster cyril_smear has a long history of dubious posts, and - by all accounts - was a returner, who had been given a fairly major second chance to redeem himself. So when he starts spewing controversialist viewpoints over a thread, and draws himself forcibly to modular attention, it's fairly inevitable that his probation will be rescinded and he'll end up back in Urban jail.

And it's not the first time he's done this, but he got temporary bans before, so I really don't think there's a case for arguing that the banhammer was hastily applied.

The price of Urban not being a place where you will get banned for calling someone a cunt is that the nastier kind of troublemaker who abuses Urban's pretty light touch rules needs to be kept out. I'm sometimes quite astonished at the amount of slack people who have come back under other identities only to repeat their previous performances are given, but I think it represents a laudable acknowledgement of the possibility of rehabilitation. Sadly, I can't think of any previously banned returners who have successfully managed to become valuable members of the community and stayed that way. If there are any, it is only a very few.


----------



## Serge Forward (Sep 4, 2021)

Well rid.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 4, 2021)

He was right about one thing though. If this had been Jeremy Corbyn shouting through the letterbox of some Tory journalist, you lot would’ve been breaking your backs bending over to excuse him.


----------



## krtek a houby (Sep 4, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> He was right about one thing though. If this had been Jeremy Corbyn shouting through the letterbox of some Tory journalist, you lot would’ve been breaking your backs bending over to excuse him.



"you lot"


----------



## BristolEcho (Sep 4, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> He was right about one thing though. If this had been Jeremy Corbyn shouting through the letterbox of some Tory journalist, you lot would’ve been breaking your backs bending over to excuse him.


Fuck Jeremy Corbyn. If you gave me the address I'd go and shout down the letterboxes of a few "journalists and political commentators" (Then probably deeply regret it later as the cold hard reality of a hangover and reality kicked in.)


----------



## two sheds (Sep 4, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> He was right about one thing though. If this had been someone who'd run over a cyclist shouting through the letterbox of some Tory journalist, you would’ve been breaking your backs bending over to excuse him.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 13, 2021)

Tommy Robinson handed five-year stalking ban after turning up at journalist’s home
					

English Defence League founder hired private investigator




					www.independent.co.uk
				




What A Prick.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 13, 2021)

should of put him back in the pedo wings


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 13, 2021)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Tommy Robinson handed five-year stalking ban after turning up at journalist’s home
> 
> 
> English Defence League founder hired private investigator
> ...



'Not allowed to stalk someone for five years' sounds less like a punishment, and more like being asked not to break the law he's been found to have broken, for a while at least 🤷‍♂️


----------



## ouirdeaux (Oct 13, 2021)

That seemed odd to me as well.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 13, 2021)

is a restraining order not more of a legal president than a stalking ban


does this mean that if he attention seeking money grubbin cunt doorsteps someone more than once you can jail him for stalking

if not fuck this news


----------



## existentialist (Oct 13, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> 'Not being allowed to stalk someone for five years' sounds less like a punishment, and more like being asked not to break the law he's been found to have broken, for a while at least 🤷‍♂️


It does sound a bit like "give him enough rope to hang himself with", too...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 13, 2021)

Shame he couldn't be put in the stocks. and have fruit & veg* thrown at him. 

* Ideally of the tinned variety.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 13, 2021)

He did the same with Mike Stuchbery also who eventually fled to Germany to escape the persecution. So presumably the stalking ban covers anyone he now chooses to harass on their doorsteps.









						‘Tommy Robinson Hounded Me Out Of My Home And Country’
					

Historian is suing the far-right activist, real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, after a campaign of harassment and intimidation at his home.




					www.huffingtonpost.co.uk


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 13, 2021)

catering sized can at that


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 13, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So presumably the stalking ban covers anyone he now chooses to harass on their doorsteps.


Nope


> Mr Ikram imposed a five-year stalking protection order which prohibits Robinson from contacting Ms Dearden and Mr Partridge either directly or indirectly or attending any place where they live or work. However the defendant will be allowed to make “legitimate comment” on any future articles.


----------



## Ax^ (Oct 13, 2021)

why is this guy not getting treated with the same level of action

as other multiple repeat offenders

the rap sheet this cunt has and he get warned off from stalking 2 people


----------



## existentialist (Oct 13, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> why is this guy not getting treated with the same level of action
> 
> as other multiple repeat offenders
> 
> the rap sheet this cunt has and he get warned off from stalking 2 people


We all know he's going to pull this stunt again. Only next time, there will be sufficient precedent that he can be safely imprisoned without any reasonable person thinking he's been martyred. Except him, of course.

I did think the reference to the courtroom flounce was interesting - I wonder what that was about?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Oct 13, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I did think the reference to the courtroom flounce was interesting - I wonder what that was about?



The penny dropped that his Freeman on the Land defence wasn't going to work.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 13, 2021)

existentialist said:


> We all know he's going to pull this stunt again. Only next time, there will be sufficient precedent that he can be safely imprisoned without any reasonable person thinking he's been martyred. Except him, of course.
> 
> I did think the reference to the courtroom flounce was interesting - I wonder what that was about?


He went to the loo to snort a line of coke
And another
And another


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 13, 2021)

He's washed up on every criteria. He's never going to lead a political movement and the begging bowl income is getting smaller and smaller. No doubt he has some 'business interests ' where dosh has been stashed ( rumoured cash  investments in clothing gear outlets) but he hasn't an army/foot soldiers , any status on the diminishing far right scene and all we will see is a few vain stunts, PayPal me events and at some point hopefully we will see a video of him on the floor.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 13, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> at some point hopefully we will see a video of him on the floor.


Like this one?


----------



## rubbershoes (Oct 14, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> He's washed up on every criteria. He's never going to lead a political movement and the begging bowl income is getting smaller and smaller. No doubt he has some 'business interests ' where dosh has been stashed ( rumoured cash  investments in clothing gear outlets) but he hasn't an army/foot soldiers , any status on the diminishing far right scene and all we will see is a few vain stunts, PayPal me events and at some point hopefully we will see a video of him on the floor.



He was previously funded by far right Canadian outfit Rebel Media, but I'd guess they'd had enough of him long ago


----------



## Badgers (Oct 30, 2021)

Another court case for one of his soldiers


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Oct 30, 2021)

Footage involving a young boy and a donkey. Apparently he forwarded it without watching it himself. 









						Billy Charlton found guilty of sharing illegal image of child performing sex act with animal
					

A hate speaker who was jailed over a series of public protests has been convicted of distributing an illegal image of a child performing a sex act with an animal over WhatsApp.




					www.sunderlandecho.com


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Oct 30, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Footage involving a young boy and a donkey. Apparently he forwarded it without watching it himself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So he's not only a paedophile but also what's known as a Zoophile. People always plead innocence in that situation aswell. The fucking vile degenerate.

Glad they called him what he is aswell, a hate speaker.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Nov 2, 2021)

Desperate stuff from Yaxley-Lennon here. Complaining about 'discrimination' and then making discriminatory (classist) comments about staff who earn minimum wage.

Good on Wing Kingz. His request for people to leave negative reviews of the place seems to have somewhat backfired aswell. I urge you to give them a positive review if you can.









						EDL founder Tommy Robinson turfed out of Wing Kingz after he complains about ‘discrimination’
					

English Defence League founder Tommy Robinson was kicked out of a chicken shop after he complained about being discriminated against by staff refusing to serve him. The 38-year-old activist - real name Stephen Yaxley-Lennon - invited his followers to leave reviews of Wing Kingz in Milton Keynes...




					uk.yahoo.com


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 2, 2021)

Count Cuckula said:


> Desperate stuff from Yaxley-Lennon here. Complaining about 'discrimination' and then making discriminatory (classist) comments about staff who earn minimum wage.
> 
> Good on Wing Kingz. His request for people to leave negative reviews of the place seems to have somewhat backfired aswell. I urge you to give them a positive review if you can.
> 
> ...



They’ve suspended the reviews at trip advisor.









						WING KINGZ, Milton Keynes - Updated 2023 Restaurant Reviews, Menu, Prices & Restaurant Reviews - Food Delivery & Takeaway - Tripadvisor
					

Order takeaway and delivery at Wing Kingz, Milton Keynes with Tripadvisor: See 146 unbiased reviews of Wing Kingz, ranked #215 on Tripadvisor among 613 restaurants in Milton Keynes.




					www.tripadvisor.co.uk


----------



## Chilli.s (Nov 2, 2021)

If they don't want to serve you Tommy, be a big boy, don't be a snowflake and start bleating on about your feelings, walk out and go to a cafe that hasn't got a problem with serving a racist fascist fuckwit


----------



## existentialist (Nov 2, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They’ve suspended the reviews at trip advisor.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wonder what the REAL story is? He obviously did something to offend a staff member, presumably something racist?


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 2, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I wonder what the REAL story is? He obviously did something to offend a staff member, presumably something racist?


Could be that he was recognised and staff didn’t want him in the premises . Live by the sword die by the sword as they say .


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 2, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> Could be that he was recognised and staff didn’t want him in the premises . Live by the sword die by the sword as they say .



Exactly. Good for them telling him to Fuck off.


----------



## The39thStep (Nov 2, 2021)

On the other hand there's a rumour that he knew he wouldn't get served and took his kids for a little stunt to try and revive his dwindling supporters.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Nov 2, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> On the other hand there's a rumour that he knew he wouldn't get served and took his kids for a little stunt to try and revive his dwindling supporters.


Wouldn't surprise me. Anything for attention and to try and make some money.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 2, 2021)

The39thStep said:


> On the other hand there's a rumour that he knew he wouldn't get served and took his kids for a little stunt to try and revive his dwindling supporters.



The old “I can’t even buy chicken wings for my kids in my own country!”

Reminds me of For Britain crying that they couldn’t fly a flag at the Miners Gala and threatened to return with numbers for a second go. Then Flaf put out a statement and they bottled it.


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 2, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I wonder what the REAL story is? He obviously did something to offend a staff member, presumably something racist?


The fact that TR/SYL exists would offend many.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 2, 2021)

Before refusing service, they should have done the decent thing, and gave him a free milk shake.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 2, 2021)

I see what you did there.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 25, 2021)

Absolute state of Goddard


----------



## danski (Dec 25, 2021)

‘British homelessness for British people.’
Fucking cock


----------



## marty21 (Dec 25, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Absolute state of Goddard



Hassling big issue sellers is never a good look


----------



## BristolEcho (Dec 25, 2021)

That's fucking low. Imagine thinking that was the sort of "activism" you'd want to be known for.


marty21 said:


> Hassling big issue sellers is never a good look


A woman on her own as well.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 25, 2021)

"It'll go all over the internet," he said smugly, not realising that whilst true it was not going to do so in quite the way he expected


----------



## The39thStep (Dec 25, 2021)




----------



## Chilli.s (Dec 25, 2021)

That Goddard, what a cunt, hope he has a shit christmas


----------



## rubbershoes (Dec 25, 2021)

Chilli.s said:


> That Goddard, what a cunt, hope he has a shit christmas


Hope he has the shits at Christmas


----------



## BigMoaner (Dec 25, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Another court case for one of his soldiers



Sick cunt


----------



## albionism (Dec 25, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Absolute state of Goddard



Such a sad fucking knob head. Whatever happened to kicking the shit out of these people, seriously ?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Dec 25, 2021)

Chilli.s said:


> That Goddard, what a cunt, hope he has a shit christmas


It's unlikely he's allowed to have the kids on the day


----------



## Chilli.s (Dec 25, 2021)

So thick they never notice


----------



## brogdale (Dec 25, 2021)

danski said:


> ‘British homelessness for British people.’
> Fucking cock


More emblematic that he could ever realise.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Dec 25, 2021)

rubbershoes said:


> Hope he has the shits at Christmas


 
Hope he shits a goose at Christmas.


----------



## Dogsauce (Dec 25, 2021)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Hope he shits a goose 8m Norwegian Spruce at Christmas.


Ftfy


----------



## Cloo (Jan 4, 2022)

Right wingers on Twitter are claiming that 'journalist and free speech advocate' Robinson's car has been firebombed on the eve of release of his 'documentary', 'The Rape of Britain', but oddly enough can't find a report of this on anything approaching a real news site. Could it be that 'are Tommy' is trying to hype up the importance of his racist rant film?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2022)

Cloo said:


> Right wingers on Twitter are claiming that 'journalist and free speech advocate' Robinson's car has been firebombed on the eve of release of his 'documentary', 'The Rape of Britain', but oddly enough can't find a report of this on anything approaching a real news site. Could it be that 'are Tommy' is trying to hype up the importance of his racist rant film?


I think it's more to do with an upcoming request for funds


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jan 4, 2022)

Is he a Range Rover owner by chance ?


----------



## BCBlues (Jan 4, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> Is he a Range Rover owner by chance ?



Yeah, charcoal colour


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 4, 2022)

BCBlues said:


> Yeah, charcoal colour


Think it's flambé on the colour chart


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jan 4, 2022)

The master race ain’t gonna take over the world if make  consistently bad choices like using  range rovers for their blitzkrieg


----------



## teqniq (Jan 10, 2022)

Oh dear how sad, etc... It looks as if he is likely to have his collar felt again:









						Oh Tommy Tommy - ON THE RUN
					

Despite being banned from Twitter and Facebook, Stephen Yaxley Lennon, who styles himself Tommy Robinson, is, it seems, not downhearted, and...




					zelo-street.blogspot.com


----------



## ddraig (Jan 20, 2022)

Tommy Robinson pursued by creditors for an estimated £2m
					

People owed money by the English Defence League founder have appointed an independent insolvency expert.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				






> Robinson, whose real name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon, declared himself bankrupt last March.
> In July, a judge ordered him to pay £100,000 to a refugee schoolboy he had wrongly accused of attacking a girl.
> He also owes an estimated £1.5m in legal costs for the boy's lawyers.


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2022)

ddraig said:


> Tommy Robinson pursued by creditors for an estimated £2m
> 
> 
> People owed money by the English Defence League founder have appointed an independent insolvency expert.
> ...


*orders fresh batch of LOLcakes


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 20, 2022)

Dunno if this is a good story really.  He's obviously hidden his cash so those he owes may never get it.  I suspect this will end up back in court.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 20, 2022)

Teaboy said:


> Dunno if this is a good story really.  He's obviously hidden his cash so those he owes may never get it.  I suspect this will end up back in court.


true, although that would be a criminal offence wouldn't it?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 20, 2022)

Hope Not Hate are doing a crowdfunder to get his accounts looked at etc FWIW 









						Tommy Robinson’s hidden millions – HOPE not hate
					

Far right extremist Tommy Robinson says he’s bankrupt and can’t pay the money he owes Jamal Hijazi, a Syrian refugee he libelled. HOPE not hate...




					hopenothate.org.uk


----------



## existentialist (Jan 20, 2022)

Well, I've chipped in a tenner, purely for entertainment value.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jan 20, 2022)

existentialist said:


> Well, I've chipped in a tenner, purely for entertainment value.



Just done the same.


----------



## RainbowTown (Jan 20, 2022)

existentialist said:


> Well, I've chipped in a tenner, purely for entertainment value.





Me too. I even took a pic. Sincerely hopes it helps.


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 20, 2022)

hmm we know what he did with his money he divorced his wife and gave it all to her


can they take it from the ex missus as it was clearly a planned stunt to avoid creditors


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jan 20, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> hmm we know what he did with his money he divorced his wife and gave it all to her
> 
> 
> can they take it from the ex missus as it was clearly a planned stunt to avoid creditors




Yes, that’s what the crowd funder is there to do, expose where he has hidden the loot and if the divorce can be shown to be a sham, e.g. he’s often seen at the house, from time to time ordering builders around the place and so on, then the court can make a judgement on that.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 20, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> hmm we know what he did with his money he divorced his wife and gave it all to her
> 
> 
> can they take it from the ex missus as it was clearly a planned stunt to avoid creditors


I believe, if that can be proved, they can go after it. But they have to prove it first...


----------



## rubbershoes (Jan 21, 2022)

His bankruptcy is due to end in March. If it can be proved to a court that he has hidden assets, the bankruptcy can be extended. And the court can reverse any transaction that is designed to put his assets out of reach of his creditors. 

So if he did give it all to his wife, that can be reversed. But the difficulty is in proving it.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 21, 2022)

and also when he did it. If he did it (I think) before there was a judgement made then he's safe . 

A mate did that to scientology - he had huge court costs awarded against him but had no assets when they came to be claimed.


----------



## rubbershoes (Jan 21, 2022)

two sheds said:


> and also when he did it. If he did it (I think) before there was a judgement made then he's safe .
> 
> A mate did that to scientology - he had huge court costs awarded against him but had no assets when they came to be claimed.



Not quite. If you can convince a judge the intention of moving the money was to put it beyond the reach of creditors, it can be reversed. The time limit is 5 years but in some circumstances, there's no time limit at all .

This is easier to prove if the transaction is after the judgment. But people can see what's coming before a judgment and move their money then. And judges are alive to that.

It takes a lot of effort, time and money to get transactions reversed and often won't succeed. So many people don't bother


----------



## two sheds (Jan 21, 2022)

Interesting, ta.

Eta: my mate actually won his case but had some of their costs (in total a million or so  ) awarded against him. So they appealed and he couldn't fight the appeal because he was bankrupt.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 21, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Interesting, ta.
> 
> Eta: my mate actually won his case but had some of their costs (in total a million or so  ) awarded against him. So they appealed and he couldn't fight the appeal because he was bankrupt.


Scientology has deep pockets and doesn't bring cases so much to win, as to ruin (and/or silence) their opponent. So, in their warped imaginations, they won that case. Yep, it really is that screwed up.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jan 25, 2022)

Just saw this

Tommy Robinson not that fussed about going to the Vatican to report on all the Catholic paedophiles


😂


----------



## Ranbay (Jan 25, 2022)

I see he's got another nonce demo in Telford this weekend.... prolly manage 100-200 on the streets looking at the telgram pages


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 25, 2022)

Ranbay said:


> I see he's got another nonce demo in Telford this weekend.... prolly manage 100-200 on the streets looking at the telgram pages


surprised he's found so many nonces up for demonstrating with him


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 25, 2022)

Ranbay said:


> I see he's got another nonce demo in Telford this weekend.... prolly manage 100-200 on the streets looking at the telgram pages


good to see you back by the way


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 25, 2022)

Ranbay said:


> I see he's got another nonce demo in Telford this weekend....



Has he got word Prince Andrew is planning a trip out for pizza?


----------



## 19force8 (Jan 31, 2022)

My sons went to Telford on Saturday on the local SWP/SUTR minibus. Robinson had over 1000 turn up to get a police escort around the town and out of it. I suspect this sudden return of boots on the street is largely down to the right regaining confidence from the anti-lockdown protests

The counter demonstration was outnumbered three or four to one, although tightly and safely stewarded.

Bit depressing, but at least it wasn't a rerun of the EDL rampage in Stoke in 2010.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jan 31, 2022)

19force8 said:


> My sons went to Telford on Saturday on the local SWP/SUTR minibus. Robinson had over 1000 turn up to get a police escort around the town and out of it. I suspect this sudden return of boots on the street is largely down to the right regaining confidence from the anti-lockdown protests
> 
> The counter demonstration was outnumbered three or four to one, although tightly and safely stewarded.
> 
> Bit depressing, but at least it wasn't a rerun of the EDL rampage in Stoke in 2010.


Personally I find it very depressing that your sons got on the local SWP/SUTR minibus.


----------



## klang (Jan 31, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Personally I find it very depressing that your sons got on the local SWP/SUTR minibus.


what minbus did you get on to oppose the fash?


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jan 31, 2022)

klang said:


> what minbus did you get on to oppose the fash?


How were said fash 'opposed' exactly? And why are 19force8's sons hanging out with a rape apologist cult that tolerates and covers up the sexual abuse of women?


----------



## klang (Jan 31, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> How were said fash 'opposed' exactly? And why are your sons hanging out with a rape apologist cult that tolerates and covers up the sexual abuse of women?


my sons?


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jan 31, 2022)

klang said:


> what minbus did you get on to oppose the fash?


How am I supposed to attend a demo that I didn't even know about? Does everyone have to attend every demo that 19force8's sons attend? It's not possible for everyone to attend every demo anyway - and like I said, I wouldn't want to be hanging out with the likes of the SWP and whatever swappie front is there. And I really to do not see how the fash were being 'opposed' at all.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 31, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> How am I supposed to attend a demo that I didn't even know about? Does everyone have to attend every demo that your sons' attend? It's not possible for everyone to attend every demo anyway - and like I said, I wouldn't want to be hanging out with the likes of the SWP and whatever swappie front is there. And I really to do not see how the fash were being 'opposed' at all.



You’re muddling people up a bit regarding fatherhood.


----------



## klang (Jan 31, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Does everyone have to attend every demo that your sons' attend?


my sons'?


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jan 31, 2022)

klang said:


> my sons?


I was referring to 19force8's sons obviously.


----------



## klang (Jan 31, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You’re muddling people up a bit regarding fatherhood.


yes, son!


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Jan 31, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You’re muddling people up a bit regarding fatherhood.


Yeah, I'm aware of that. Have edited accordingly.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 31, 2022)

The SWP are a bit shit though. They tend to either protest in another part of town or try to control other people’s response.


----------



## klang (Jan 31, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> How am I supposed to attend a demo that I didn't even know about?


you could ask 19force8 to ask his son to keep you informed.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 31, 2022)

STOP COUNTER PROTESTING WRONGLY


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 31, 2022)

the son in question at least turned out

 " admirable but misguided "


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 31, 2022)

It is good that 19force8 ’s sons (who I assume are still fairly young) took a principled stand against fascism via what I assume was the only practical route they were aware of.

Sounds like good parenting to me 

Perhaps having done this they will have been exposed to more militant avenues by others present. And/or will have been bored shitless by hectoring trots. Who knows?


----------



## Serge Forward (Jan 31, 2022)

Personally, I wouldn't have much of a problem blagging a lift with some Swerps if it was the only affordable way to get to a demo I wanted to attend, just as long as I had a nice audio book to listen to for the whole journey 

And much as I loathe the SWP, one or two of them in my locality, I actually get along with. Mind you, they have less clout than the ACG in my town. If they were big cheeses here, I'm sure they'd be intolerable.

Also, my late aunty was a long term SWP member and she was lovely... just as long as we didn't talk politics.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Feb 15, 2022)

Martin Smith is a low life rapist piece of shit and the Socialist Workers Party leadership (whose will that party represents) enabled, allowed and tried to cover up his vile abuse of women. They are a misogynist, anti-feminist, rape apologist organisation and a cult. I stand by that and always will because those are facts. I'm very glad I had the good sense to leave that party and Trotskyism itself in 2005 and move on to anarchism. And the fact that such people as the SWP are counter-protesting the likes of Tommy Robinson is truly fucking absurd and very much a disservice to the anti-capitalist and anti-fascist cause.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 15, 2022)

There was almost fisty cuffs at a drinks for comrades with one calling another a rape apologist. I'm not a fan of the SWP but I don't think it's comradely to start these sort of accusations against anyone associated with it.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 15, 2022)

I’d question the judgement of people still in the SWP and would urge people not to join it. I think that’s different from a couple of kids getting on their front org bus to go and oppose Yaxley. They are, unfortunately, quite hard to completely avoid.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 15, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> I’d question the judgement of people still in the SWP and would urge people not to join it. I think that’s different from a couple of kids getting on their front org bus to go and oppose Yaxley. They are, unfortunately, quite hard to completely avoid.


I don't even know what they stand for. They lost me when they started stalking me and I realised my opinions would be taught.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Feb 15, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I don't even know what they stand for. They lost me when they started stalking me and I realised my opinions would be taught.


Well I think that’s the right take anyway - how they do things is probably more harmful to people than the core beliefs. Like, I’ve not read Trotsky or Lenin myself either. Or much of their paper etc.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 22, 2022)

He's trolling the High Court. 









						Tommy Robinson fails to turn up at High Court for questioning over his finances
					

The English Defence League founder last year was ordered to pay legal costs after losing a High Court trial but later claimed he was bankrupt and unable to pay the figure




					www.mirror.co.uk
				




He must be mad to think he'll get away with just not turning-up.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 22, 2022)

Its Hope Not Hate but this is a handy piece in SYLs property portfolio. Other sources also claim that he is the 'silent partner' in a couple of clothing shops. Just think of the mugs who have donated to his various causes 

Tommy Two Homes: HOPE not hate reveal ANOTHER Property Linked to Tommy Robinson – HOPE not hate


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2022)

The39thStep said:


> Its Hope Not Hate but this is a handy piece in SYLs property portfolio. Other sources also claim that he is the 'silent partner' in a couple of clothing shops. Just think of the mugs who have donated to his various causes
> 
> Tommy Two Homes: HOPE not hate reveal ANOTHER Property Linked to Tommy Robinson – HOPE not hate


Yaxley-Lennon mocks them viciously when he's in his cups


----------



## Fairweather (Mar 22, 2022)




----------



## hitmouse (Mar 25, 2022)

SYL and Britain First apparently planning a day out to Bristol in the near future, if anyone's offspring feel like getting on any minibuses:


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> SYL and Britain First apparently planning a day out to Bristol in the near future, if anyone's offspring feel like getting on any minibuses:



Hope they get a Bristol swimming lesson


----------



## two sheds (Mar 25, 2022)

Does seem the best way to celebrate Colston


----------



## eatmorecheese (Mar 25, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> SYL and Britain First apparently planning a day out to Bristol in the near future, if anyone's offspring feel like getting on any minibuses:



Pull their trousers down and laugh Bristol


----------



## RD2003 (Mar 25, 2022)

Also from Hope not Hate, a fairly non-commital piece about his attitude/links to Russia. 









						Tommy Robinson: Putin’s Useful Idiot? – HOPE not hate
					

Stephen Lennon (AKA Tommy Robinson) has pushed Russian misinformation about the war in Ukraine. It’s time to ask questions about his long history of pro-Putin...




					hopenothate.org.uk


----------



## ddraig (Mar 26, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> SYL and Britain First apparently planning a day out to Bristol in the near future, if anyone's offspring feel like getting on any minibuses:



Lolz, they'll get fucked
It's "For britain" not britain first I think


----------



## hitmouse (Mar 26, 2022)

ddraig said:


> Lolz, they'll get fucked
> It's "For britain" not britain first I think


Yeah, you're right there, I'd forgotten they existed - For Britain are Anne-Marie Waters and that weird trident symbol thing, right?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 26, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Yeah, you're right there, I'd forgotten they existed - For Britain are Anne-Marie Waters and that weird trident symbol thing, right?



Yep.


----------



## hitmouse (Mar 28, 2022)

Bristol Live article about it here, apparently SYL not yet confirmed as attending but he has joined For Britain so it sounds quite likely:








						Far right group plans Bristol rally in support of Colston
					

A counter-demo is already being organised




					www.bristolpost.co.uk
				




It does still feel quite funny that they seem to be having a counter-demo against June 2020 in April 2022. God knows I've fought for my share of lost causes in my time, but the Colston statue in Bristol really does seem to be quite an unlikely thing to rally around right now.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Mar 28, 2022)

_"For Britain will also protest against the destruction of monuments and statues of historical figures, and believes those who engage in such activities should face the full extent of the law, regardless of politics."_

But the people who "engaged in those activities" with the Colston statue have now faced the full extent of the law. And been acquitted.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 28, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Bristol Live article about it here, apparently SYL not yet confirmed as attending but he has joined For Britain so it sounds quite likely:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



June 2020 was pretty crap on the whole tbf. If they can get it rescinded then good on them. Maybe they can sort out March, April and May as well.


----------



## BristolEcho (Mar 28, 2022)

It's just something to rally around. Not sure it will even be that well attended. Will see how it goes.


----------



## teqniq (Apr 2, 2022)

Lol where is my tiny violin?









						Tommy Robinson faces 'deportation' after being detained in Mexico
					

TOMMY Robinson – whose real is name is Stephen Yaxley-Lennon – claims he has been “arrested” in Mexico, separated from his children and…




					www.thenational.scot


----------



## two sheds (Apr 2, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Lol where is my tiny violin?
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> “You speak about Islam, that’s all I’ve f****** done. Ask yourself what I've done, what are my convictions, what have I actually f****** done, what have I done? Spoke about Islam. Criticised Islam.


That's a fair question, what has he actually done? It's answered later in the article:


> Robinson has convictions for fraud, stalking, assault, using someone else’s passport, using threatening behaviour and contempt of court.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 2, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Lol where is my tiny violin?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh FFS, can't they just keep him?


----------



## Chilli.s (Apr 2, 2022)

Mexican prison should be good for him


----------



## eatmorecheese (Apr 2, 2022)

I bet just before he landed he was looking forward to scoring some strong chang and is now clucking in his deportation cell. Heh.


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 2, 2022)

The thought of going down to Bristol for a pro-Colston demo is admittedly quite a scary one, but I wouldn't have expected him to bottle it so badly he'd run off to Mexico to avoid it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 2, 2022)

How does a bankrupt take three children on an Easter break to Mexico?


----------



## Ax^ (Apr 2, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> How does a bankrupt take three children on an Easter break to Mexico?



by saying it was his supporters paid for the holiday

if that happens to be his ex wife maybe that when the courts  should get involved


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 2, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> by saying it was his supporters paid for the holiday
> 
> if that happens to be his ex wife maybe that when the courts  should get involved


Out of curiosity, what's the carry on and hold luggage weight total for three children and one adult travelling back from global cocaine transhipment hotspot popular holiday destination Mexico?


----------



## Part 2 (Apr 2, 2022)

Let the cartel deal with him.


----------



## Ax^ (Apr 2, 2022)

Tommy Tommy Robinson, his head is down a well

not  a football fan so not sure how the chants carry on


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 3, 2022)

Ax^ said:


> Tommy Tommy Robinson, his head is down a well
> 
> not  a football fan so not sure how the chants carry on




He's coming home, He's coming home.... Tommy's coming home.


----------



## ddraig (Apr 3, 2022)

Seen the video of him moaning in Mexico!!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 3, 2022)

It would be hilarious if he actually had been doing a deal of some kind, and the vendor just kept the money and dobbed him in 🤣


----------



## gosub (Apr 3, 2022)

Judge Dragnell is going to go totally Mexico. Got to be the easiest referel for contempt ever


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> How does a bankrupt take three children on an Easter break to Mexico?


I hope we'll find out


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 3, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> How does a bankrupt take three children on an Easter break to Mexico?


I don't know, how does a bankrupt take three children on an Easter break to Mexico?


----------



## BCBlues (Apr 3, 2022)

They should send him back in a rubber dinghy with one bottle of water and a paddle.
His mates from Britain First or whoever can meet and greet him as they do.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 3, 2022)

And yet he still has mugs funding his lifestyle


----------



## teqniq (Apr 3, 2022)

Grift alert incoming:


----------



## klang (Apr 3, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> I don't know, how does a bankrupt take three children on an Easter break to Mexico?
> 
> View attachment 316928


He doesn't.


----------



## MrSki (Apr 3, 2022)




----------



## AmateurAgitator (Apr 3, 2022)

MrSki said:


>


I was just about to post this


----------



## existentialist (Apr 3, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> I was just about to post this


So was I.


----------



## teqniq (Apr 3, 2022)

Home again, oh dear.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 3, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Home again, oh dear.



So I wonder what they lifted him for? Apart from being a mouthy little prat, obvs.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 3, 2022)

Pre meditated cuntery


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 3, 2022)

A snort and prattery


----------



## tonysingh (Apr 3, 2022)

There's people in the background defending him though. Depressing as fuck.


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 3, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Home again, oh dear.


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 3, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



He's a great pineapple streak running down his gammon back


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 3, 2022)

Great remake of An Idiot Abroad


----------



## Dystopiary (Apr 3, 2022)

Made me laugh:


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 3, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> I don't know, how does a bankrupt take three children on an Easter break to Mexico?
> 
> View attachment 316928


Practice!


not-bono-ever said:


> And yet he still has mugs funding his lifestyle


----------



## emanymton (Apr 3, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> He's a great pineapple streak running down his gammon back


And details yet on what he had done?


----------



## Part 2 (Apr 3, 2022)

emanymton said:


> And details yet on what he had done?



Something about a security breach. Released with nfa according to the DM. 

Copper thought he'd breached security but was told by a witness that it wasn't him. His top got ripped and he said the copper was the most 'the most aggressive police officer I've ever witnessed' before telling him he was unreasonable and shouldn't be carrying a Taser.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 3, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Something about a security breach. Released with nfa according to the DM.
> 
> Copper thought he'd breached security but was told by a witness that it wasn't him. His top got ripped and he said the copper was the most 'the most aggressive police officer I've ever witnessed' before telling him he was unreasonable and shouldn't be carrying a Taser.


Well that's a little disappointing


----------



## tim (Apr 4, 2022)

emanymton said:


> Well that's a little disappointing


Yes, having to accept that Tommy   Robinson was the victim of unwarranted Police brutality.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 4, 2022)

tim said:


> Yes, having to accept that Tommy   Robinson was the victim of unwarranted Police brutality.


Its Tommy Robinson surely we can make and exception


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 4, 2022)

likesfish said:


> Its Tommy Robinson surely we can make and exception


It's the Countryside Alliance/Met Police punch-up dilemma all over again


----------



## likesfish (Apr 4, 2022)

remember seeing that on the news and an anarchist type going fucking met.
 then somebody explained who they were hitting changing his tune rapidly and then going I feel dirty now


----------



## Ax^ (Apr 4, 2022)

existentialist said:


> So I wonder what they lifted him for? Apart from being a mouthy little prat, obvs.



well he got form for using someone else passport and drugs charges quite easy to fuck with him at airports

amazed he would of got into Mexico with a drugs charge


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 4, 2022)

likesfish said:


> remember seeing that on the news and an anarchist type going fucking met.
> then somebody explained who they were hitting changing his tune rapidly and then going I feel dirty now


I was in the newsroom of a paper then part of the _Daily Mail _group and I am afraid to report that there was much cheering amongst the hacks


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 4, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> It's the Countryside Alliance/Met Police punch-up dilemma all over again


There is no dilemma, it's win-win


----------



## marty21 (Apr 4, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Grift alert incoming:
> 
> View attachment 316948


Grifter gotta grift


----------



## sim667 (Apr 7, 2022)

Part 2 said:


> Something about a security breach. Released with nfa according to the DM.
> 
> Copper thought he'd breached security but was told by a witness that it wasn't him. His top got ripped and he said the copper was the most 'the most aggressive police officer I've ever witnessed' before telling him he was unreasonable and shouldn't be carrying a Taser.


I’d read he’d be nabbed on warrant for missing a court date


----------



## likesfish (Apr 7, 2022)

"he was known to the authorities" springs to mind.


----------



## Part 2 (Apr 7, 2022)

sim667 said:


> I’d read he’d be nabbed on warrant for missing a court date


There's a possibility he'll be charged with contempt of court for not showing up at a hearing on 22nd March but I don't think the judge has decided whether to charge him.


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 8, 2022)

Apparently For Britain have officially bottled it:








						OOH ARR ANTIFA!!!! – Fascist demo in Bristol cancelled with a week to go
					

Faced with mounting community resistance, Tommy Robinson and the political party/support act For Britain have abandoned their planned anti-BLM rally at the site of the famously dethroned Colston st…




					freedomnews.org.uk
				



eta bit more from Bristol Cable here:








						Far-right postpone anti-Black Lives Matter rally in Bristol celebrating Colston's legacy - The Bristol Cable
					

For Britain's leader said the group would stage the demonstration another time, when counter-protesters 'don't know we're going'




					thebristolcable.org


----------



## BristolEcho (Apr 8, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Apparently For Britain have officially bottled it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Shame I was going to mooch by with my Mum after a breakfast.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 8, 2022)

BristolEcho said:


> my Mum


They bricked it after hearing about your secret weapon 🤣


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 8, 2022)

BristolEcho said:


> Shame I was going to mooch by with my Mum after a breakfast.


You're leaving out some important information here - will you be having eggs with your breakfast and how will you be having them done if so, what, if any, sauce will you be having, etc.
Anyway, if you fancy it sounds like the counter-event's still on:
Bristol Against Hate, the coalition formed to oppose them, say their mobilisation is still going, both as a celebration and a deterrent to any far-right stragglers.


----------



## BristolEcho (Apr 8, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> You're leaving out some important information here - will you be having eggs with your breakfast and how will you be having them done if so, what, if any, sauce will you be having, etc.
> Anyway, if you fancy it sounds like the counter-event's still on:
> Bristol Against Hate, the coalition formed to oppose them, say their mobilisation is still going, both as a celebration and a deterrent to any far-right stragglers.


Fried eggs. Veggie breakfast. Tons of sauce likely ketchup.


----------



## BristolEcho (Apr 8, 2022)

Ps: yes will likely nip by.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 8, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Bristol Against Hate, the coalition formed to oppose them, say their mobilisation is still going


BAH humbug 🤣


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 8, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Apparently For Britain have officially bottled it:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


just as an aside, i've traced the ooh arr bit back to the wolfe tones' 'celtic symphony', written in 1987 for celtic's centenary, where it's ooh ah up the 'ra. then it's been nicked by loads of other people, notably the daily star. but i wonder if anyone can trace it further back than '87?


----------



## two sheds (Apr 8, 2022)

Wurzles 1960s.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 8, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Wurzles 1960s.


which song in particular?


----------



## High Voltage (Apr 8, 2022)

The Wurzels - Combine Harvester Lyrics | Lyrics.com
					

Combine Harvester Lyrics by The Wurzels from the Top of the Crops album - including song video, artist biography, translations and more: 'Cause I've got a bran' new combine harvester and I'll give you the key! Come on now let's get together in perfect har…




					www.lyrics.com
				






Pickman's model said:


> which song in particular?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 8, 2022)

High Voltage said:


> The Wurzels - Combine Harvester Lyrics | Lyrics.com
> 
> 
> Combine Harvester Lyrics by The Wurzels from the Top of the Crops album - including song video, artist biography, translations and more: 'Cause I've got a bran' new combine harvester and I'll give you the key! Come on now let's get together in perfect har…
> ...


yeh that was released in 1976, not the 1960s

it's an advance, for which i thank you, but not as great an advance as was promised


----------



## High Voltage (Apr 8, 2022)

Ooo Ahhh has been a familiar sound in Somerset for as long as I can remember, so the Wurzels, with Adge Cutler, will almost certainly have used it in other songs prior to this


----------



## two sheds (Apr 8, 2022)

> I drove my tractor through your haystack last night (Ooh ar ooh ar) I threw me pitch fork at your dog to keep quiet (Ooh ar ooh ar) Now somethin's tellin' me, that you'm avoidin' me (Ooh ar ooh ar)


They wrote it several years before it was released, took a while to get the words right.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 8, 2022)

High Voltage said:


> Ooo Ahhh has been a familiar sound in Somerset for as long as I can remember, so the Wurzels, with Adge Cutler, will almost certainly have used it in other songs prior to this


It’s prominent in “I am a Cider Drinker” but that’s a later song I think.


----------



## BristolEcho (Apr 9, 2022)

Sorry for the Twitter link!


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 9, 2022)

High Voltage said:


> Ooo Ahhh has been a familiar sound in Somerset for as long as I can remember, so the Wurzels, with Adge Cutler, will almost certainly have used it in other songs prior to this


We don't deal in almosts


----------



## hitmouse (Apr 12, 2022)

I was thinking it would be nice to see the actual clip of For Britain bottling it but couldn't be arsed digging through far-right videos to find it, luckily someone has captured the relevant clip if anyone fancies it:


Also, bit late now but apparently 12 Rules did an interview while it still looked like this was going ahead, so if anyone wants to listen to a full podcast about a potential far-right demo that ended up not happening, here you go:


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## BristolEcho (Apr 12, 2022)

I headed down later in the afternoon and it was still a bit busy with a soundsystem. I didn't know anyone do left pretty quickly. Was good to see the area around the statue taken over all day.


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## AmateurAgitator (Apr 13, 2022)

Nice . Got this from the Anti-Capitalist Action facebook page -

The SWP were told to Get The Fuck Out from the demo at the former Colston statue in Bristol, and had a flag taken.

Google comrade delta, Fuck the SWP


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## mojo pixy (Apr 13, 2022)

What's that three finger hand signal all about? Like a backwards scout salute.


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## keybored (Apr 13, 2022)

two sheds said:


> They wrote it several years before it was released, took a while to get the words right.


Yep, and it was very magnanimous of them at the time not to drag Melanie Safka through the courts for her despicable plagiarism.


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## Fozzie Bear (Apr 13, 2022)

mojo pixy said:


> What's that three finger hand signal all about? Like a backwards scout salute.



Isn’t it like a gang signal thing based on the anti-fascist three arrows?

I’m not really keen on that subcultural stuff, but whatever.


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## cupid_stunt (May 1, 2022)

It appears even EDL supporters don't want him back on twitter.


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## keybored (May 1, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It appears even EDL supporters don't want him back on twitter.
> 
> 
> View attachment 320777



tbh I somehow doubt the "no" votes are coming from EDL supporters.


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## cupid_stunt (May 1, 2022)

keybored said:


> tbh I somehow doubt the "no" votes are coming from EDL supporters.



Same here, that's why I was careful in posting 'it appears...'


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## dessiato (May 1, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> It appears even EDL supporters don't want him back on twitter.
> 
> 
> View attachment 320777


Isn’t that the cross of St James?


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## Magnus McGinty (May 1, 2022)

Both lucky and unlucky 😂


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## Magnus McGinty (May 1, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Both lucky and unlucky 😂



This was meant for the snooker thread where he fluked the green but then the white went in


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## DaveCinzano (May 1, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> This was meant for the snooker thread where he fluked the green but then the white went in


Said with the same ostensible plausibility as that of the guy in A&E explaining to the Junior Dr how exactly the Maglite XL came to be stuck up his poop chute


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## dessiato (May 2, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Isn’t that the cross of St James?


Checking it out it is one version of the sword/cross of St James who is also the patron Saint of Guatemala, Nicaragua, and Spain. Seems an odd choice here.


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## brogdale (May 2, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Same here, that's why I was careful in posting 'it appears...'


It’s a protest vote regarding the missing apostrophe; they’re sticklers them grammar nazis.


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## teqniq (May 2, 2022)

Not strictly grifter related, but Happy May bank holiday:


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## PR1Berske (May 2, 2022)

"M94936425M" ?


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## cupid_stunt (May 2, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> "M94936425M" ?



I thought that odd when I was sent the screenshot of their poll going wrong, so I checked on twitter and it was a genuine EDL supporting account.


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## AmateurAgitator (May 2, 2022)

teqniq said:


> Not strictly grifter related, but Happy May bank holiday:



I didn't even know the EDL was still a thing that existed.


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## PR1Berske (May 2, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> I didn't even know the EDL was still a thing that existed.


They merged (of a kind) with the football hooligan "casual" crowd. Pie and Mash, that sort.


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## 19force8 (May 2, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Checking it out it is one version of the sword/cross of St James who is also the patron Saint of Guatemala, Nicaragua, and Spain. Seems an odd choice here.


He was also the patron saint of military orders of knights in both Spain and Portugal during the reconquest so I expect it's been appropriated for its anti-Islam associations. Or maybe the EDL is run by Rosicrucians.


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## 19force8 (May 2, 2022)

While we're here, TR is due back in Telford this Saturday.


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## rubbershoes (May 6, 2022)

Oh dear.

Tommy is facing contempt of court proceedings  for not turning up at court to be questioned about his finances.  Although contempt of court has a quaint ring to it, a judge can send you to prison for it.  And when you get out, you still have to do whatever you didn't do in the first place.

Apparently he didn't turn up at court because he was ‘suffering from a number of mental health issues which he says are attributable to harassment by various individuals’.

The judge has set a date for the contempt hearing saying that ‘were he to fail to attend again, that would be an aggravating feature’.


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## DaveCinzano (May 6, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Apparently he didn't turn up at court because he was ‘suffering from a number of mental health issues which he says are attributable to harassment by various individuals’.


What were these beastly swine doing, refusing to answer the door to him and his coked up 'camera assistants' when they went _independent journalisting _in the wee small hours? The rotters!


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## hitmouse (May 6, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Isn’t it like a gang signal thing based on the anti-fascist three arrows?
> 
> I’m not really keen on that subcultural stuff, but whatever.


Confusingly, I thought of three fingers as being a KKK thing, although I now can't find much confirmation of this beyond urbandictionary:





						Urban Dictionary: 3 fingers down
					

means KKK. this is how these black haters show their membership to the klan, mainly done while they holding their belts.




					www.urbandictionary.com
				





Although I suppose there's probably not that many Klan in Bristol?


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## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> What were these beastly swine doing, refusing to answer the door to him and his coked up 'camera assistants' when they went _independent journalisting _in the wee small hours? The rotters!



I bet he’s suffering from nothing worse than a charlie comedown. Unlike Mike Stuchbery who moved to Germany following Robinson encouraged persecution at his home.


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## existentialist (May 6, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> Oh dear.
> 
> Tommy is facing contempt of court proceedings  for not turning up at court to be questioned about his finances.  Although contempt of court has a quaint ring to it, a judge can send you to prison for it.  And when you get out, you still have to do whatever you didn't do in the first place.
> 
> ...


Don't you just love how these hard as nails cunts, who are only too happy to play the Big Man, suddenly turn into quivering little snowflakes the minute it suits them to...?


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## rubbershoes (May 6, 2022)

existentialist said:


> Don't you just love how these hard as nails cunts, who are only too happy to play the Big Man, suddenly turn into quivering little snowflakes the minute it suits them to...?



After he was ordered to pay Syrian refugee Jamal Hijazi £100k for libel, Tommy's plan was presumably to hide his assets, declare himself bankrupt, wait the year for that to pass and then return to his life of comfort. 

Advocacy group Hope not Hate has been helping Jamal and poking Tommy with a legal stick. 

The contempt hearing is in August. Tommy may find out that fucking around with High Court judges is a bad idea.


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## existentialist (May 6, 2022)

rubbershoes said:


> After he was ordered to pay Syrian refugee Jamal Hijazi £100k for libel, Tommy's plan was presumably to hide his assets, declare himself bankrupt, wait the year for that to pass and then return to his life of comfort.
> 
> Advocacy group Hope not Hate has been helping Jamal and poking Tommy with a legal stick.
> 
> The contempt hearing is in August. Tommy may find out that fucking around with High Court judges is a bad idea.


I think he has so far proven himself to be far too stupid to learn anything about fucking around with the courts. I can see that twat doing time pretty soon...


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## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

Boris Becker tried similar. He’s inside now.


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## Ax^ (May 6, 2022)

existentialist said:


> I think he has so far proven himself to be far too stupid to learn anything about fucking around with the courts. I can see that twat doing time pretty soon...



more so him hiding in the pedo wing whilst proclaiming it to make sure he is protected from other inmates


must remind him of the english defense league


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## Johnny Vodka (Jun 10, 2022)

Robinson spent £100k on gambling while getting supporter donations
					

The English Defence League founder says he wasted money gambling and on "drink, alcohol, partying".



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




I'm guessing by "partying" he means "cocaine"?


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## teqniq (Jun 10, 2022)

Have a look at this thread:


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## steveo87 (Jun 10, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Boris Becker tried similar. He’s inside now.


Off topic slightly, but that is the single maddest fact about 2022.


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## two sheds (Jun 11, 2022)

Tommy Robinson spent £100,000 gambling before declaring bankruptcy, court hears
					

The English Defence League founder told the court he was ‘disaster with paperwork’




					www.independent.co.uk
				




fucking tosser


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2022)

Perhaps not on the roulette wheels, he did gamble for money though. And lost. Now is his reckoning.


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## WouldBe (Jun 11, 2022)

I wonder if he's declared the donations to HMRC?


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## Magnus McGinty (Jun 11, 2022)

I wonder what his supporters think about him using their donations for self enrichment. Maybe they simply don’t care as long as he publicly represents their views. Which makes him the victim again here so more money.


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## existentialist (Jun 11, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I wonder what his supporters think about him using their donations for self enrichment. Maybe they simply don’t care as long as he publicly represents their views. Which makes him the victim again here so more money.


Some won't like it. Every little helps.


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## Dogsauce (Jun 11, 2022)

Does he still have many acolytes? He seems a lot less visible and you don’t hear people banging on about him quite as much, would it be optimistic to think of him as yesterdays news? The grifting moved on from racist shite to anti-lockdown stuff and I don’t think he made himself a figurehead of that movement.


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## srb7677 (Jun 11, 2022)

One of the local  Tory candidates in Plymouth in May - Sonia Hosking - had this on her FB page.....


The local Tory party was made aware of this. But nothing was done. It is still on her page.

Apparently more evidence that such a character and his Islamophobia is considered acceptable in the Tory party of today. Certainly in Plymouth.


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## Boris Sprinkler (Jun 11, 2022)

You sound surprised?


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## srb7677 (Jun 11, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> You sound surprised?


Surprised? No. But shocked that they don't see this as a potential problem re adverse publicity. And that the local media who have also been informed by numerous people seem uninterested too.
Last year the same candidate stood as an Independent. Back then I was still in the Labour party and informed the local party about the above. They urged me not to go public with it but to leave it with them to deal with more effectively. They then did and said nothing.

It seems no one cares. Too eager to keep the racist vote on board.


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## Kaka Tim (Jun 11, 2022)

srb7677 said:


> It seems no one cares. Too eager to keep the racist vote on board.


I fear that you're right. Bigot signalling


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## Boris Sprinkler (Jun 11, 2022)

This passed without comment and the Tories still won Enfield.








						Enfield Southgate Conservatives: Chair resigns over Nazi photo
					

Colin Davis says he had "no recollection" of the occasion but "can't absolutely rule it out".



					www.bbc.com
				




It’s almost like Labour under Keith stammer are utterly shit.


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## srb7677 (Jun 11, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> It’s almost like Labour under Keith stammer are utterly shit.


A bunch of careerist profiteers believing in nothing led by an establishment stooge.


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## ddraig (Jun 11, 2022)

srb7677 said:


> One of the local  Tory candidates in Plymouth in May - Sonia Hosking - had this on her FB page.....
> 
> View attachment 326658
> The local Tory party was made aware of this. But nothing was done. It is still on her page.
> ...


2018


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## srb7677 (Jun 11, 2022)

ddraig said:


> 2018


I know. But it is still there today in spite of the local Tories having been made aware of it as recently as this May.


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## WayneG (Jun 11, 2022)

Cloo said:


> Yes, massive facepalm. Getting into argument of sorts with fash on Twitter who think that Robinson is a 'renegade freedom fighter' for turning up and filming outside court where Asian men are being tried in a grooming case.
> 
> My understanding is that he is arrested for Breach of peace because he has form for potential or actual contempt of court if allowed to continue his bullshit.
> 
> The fash and fash apologists (mostly from US) see this as 'the government' 'covering up' the case, whereas presumably it's not really anything to do with the government, and it's not about 'protecting' the men accused but preventing the case getting thrown out on a technicality because the prosecution has been compromised by Robinson's bullshit. Ie, Robinson could get guilty people let off if allowed to film and post up incendiary crap about the case. Am I understanding it correctly?


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## rubbershoes (Jun 11, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I wonder what his supporters think about him using their donations for self enrichment. Maybe they simply don’t care as long as he publicly represents their views. Which makes him the victim again here so more money.



That's the world we're in now. Here and the US. Depressing


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## Dystopiary (Jun 11, 2022)

Cold War Steve 



Spoiler


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## 8ball (Jun 12, 2022)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> You sound surprised?



Seems fair to be surprised.

Not about the opinion, about the lack of scrutiny of the optics.

Would have thought any mainstream party would be on top of this these days.


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