# Travelling to the USA with a criminal record...



## funkster (Feb 19, 2005)

I have a dilemma:

My girlfriend and I want to go to America for our honeymoon later this year (we are UK citizens), but I have a criminal record for possession of drugs.  

I am supposed to obtain a Memorandum Of Conviction (MOC) from the court, make an appointment with a US Embassy official in London and hope for the best. Apparently it can take all day and several officials are involved in making the decision as to whether I'm allowed in - and if I am refused, I will never be able to enter the USA ever again.

I called the solicitors who represented me in court (by the way, I didn't go to prison, just got a fine and community service) and he advised I just book our flights and ignore the red tape. He reckons US immigration will not have a computer that displays whether someone from the UK has a criminal record or not.

It's a tough decision. On one hand we really want to make this trip through America and really don't want to get refused entry permanently, but on the other hand, being sent back to the UK on arrival would surely be a nightmare honeymoon situation!!

What does everyone think?


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## layabout (Feb 19, 2005)

Go somewhere else for the honeymoon then. It ain't worth the stress.


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## 1927 (Feb 19, 2005)

Is it just the one dilemna you have or three?
Does this need to be in three differnt forums?


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## tobyjug (Feb 19, 2005)

funkster said:
			
		

> What does everyone think?



Your solicitor is talking out of his arsehole.
I had to declare just being arrested, (not charged with anything) to get a visa for the USA and that was well before 911.


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## funkster (Feb 20, 2005)

1927 said:
			
		

> Is it just the one dilemna you have or three?
> Does this need to be in three differnt forums?



I wanted to get as many opinions as I could. Different people read different forums.

It's a serious issue for me, sorry if it's bothered you.


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## fortune (Feb 20, 2005)

go to a civilised country instead, mate


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## Oula (Feb 21, 2005)

Dunno about America but my other half has same type of conviction, same penalty. Didn't have to say anything about it when we got our visas for Australia but when we landed at 4am we had to fill out a card which asked if we had criminal convictions. He just put no. Nothing happened from it.

The US may well be more hardcore though.


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## smashthestate (Feb 21, 2005)

> go to a civilised country instead, mate



yeah, that's be my advice too.

but if you are set on going to US, IMO just don't mention your conviction and you will prob get let in.


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## Maggot (Feb 25, 2005)

I went to New York in 1998 and didn't declare my drugs conviction and nothing happened. Although this was before 11 September, it was just after the American Embassy bombings in Africa so security was tight. My conviction had already been spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders act, I'm not sure if that makes a difference.

I think you'll be fine (unless you're a muslim   )




			
				tobyjug said:
			
		

> Your solicitor is talking out of his arsehole.
> I had to declare just being arrested, (not charged with anything) to get a visa for the USA and that was well before 911.


 But if you hadn't declared it you probably would have got in anyway.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Feb 27, 2005)

What about flying into Vancouver and then crossing over by land?


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## PerfectLips (Feb 27, 2005)

Even if there is only a tiny 0.0001% chance of being found out, I would say dont risk it.

Think what it would do to your new wife if you got refused entry on your honeymoon.

It would destroy me if I was her.


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## chilango (Feb 28, 2005)

1/ You have to declare even if you`ve been arrested and then let off/found not guilty - though I know people who simply lied. and got away with it. also there is iirc soem clause where you`re declaration is if the offense was "morally" somethibng or other.

2/ don`t cross by land via canada. canada can be a pain i the ass to get into, and the land crossing there (peace arch) is STRICT. You may be the only non- N Americans cossing, so will get ALL the attention. You could try via Mexico, if you`re white.

3/ Try another sensible instead.


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## JWH (Feb 28, 2005)

Maggot said:
			
		

> My conviction had already been spent under the Rehabilitation of Offenders act, I'm not sure if that makes a difference.


It doesn't make a difference - the visa is issued under US law, not UK law, and the US state isn't subject to ROA.

The landing cards explicitly ask you if you've been arrested and/or convicted of a criminal offence. (I think the US embassy website has downloads of the actual form). IIRC (but check on the State Dept website), you are not eligible to use the Visa Waiver Program if you have. If you just show up without an advance visa with the conviction box ticked, I would have thought you are asking for a long interview upon arrival at the very least, and a pretty good chance of being denied entry. 

There is PROBABLY relatively little chance of being caught out but it is a criminal offence under US federal law. If they caught you while you were there, they could quite easily sling you in jail and if you were lucky, you would just get deported after a while. If you were unlucky, you could get a jail term. Also, if you ever (in the distant future) wanted to immigrate or live there, they could cancel your status/citizenship/residency in a heartbeat if they found out you lied on your landing cards. It's a gamble and it's up to you.

Your solicitor is an irresponsible fuckspud if s/he treats this as "red tape".


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## funkster (Mar 2, 2005)

If anyone else has any experiences, please let me know.


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## Maggot (Mar 2, 2005)

The visa waiver form asks: Do you intend to commit any illegal or immoral acts whilst on your visit?  I was severely tempted to put 'I hope so'.


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## harticus (Mar 5, 2005)

My mate got refused entry into New York last year, he was only going for 4 days to watch Liverpool play on thier US tour. He had a drugs coviction from 10 years ago. He Disclosed on the entry card (coz he wanted to be honest) but he didnt think he would need a waver of any description as he was only going for four days. He had his mate with him who also happens to be in wheelchair, but they wouldnt let my mate in even though he was acting as a carer for his mate. Not only was he refused entry, but he got caught smoking a fag in the toilets and was promptly arrested and had his ankels shackled, he was classified as a hostile prisoner aswell. (he is a bit lary though) but wouldnt you be if refused entry.

In my opiniom fuck the US they can shove their tourism up there arses, go to a more civilised country like china, or burma or the sudan even. I hi Dharfour region is nice and welcoming this time of year.


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## mellowmoose (Mar 5, 2005)

Why not go somewhere with a bit more culture and history ? 

America is wank.


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## JWH (Mar 5, 2005)

There is plenty of culture and history. You're obviously just too lazy to bother finding out about it.


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## laptop (Mar 5, 2005)

Maggot said:
			
		

> The visa waiver form asks: Do you intend to commit any illegal or immoral acts whilst on your visit?  I was severely tempted to put 'I hope so'.



Ah, time for that story. 

The broadcaster Gilbert Harding - once, apparently, rather well-known in the UK - received a visa form which asked "Do you intend to overthrow the Government of the United States by force?" He answered: "Sole purpose of visit."


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## KarmaBum (Mar 5, 2005)

Sounds too stressful.

Why do you have your heart set on America? Maybe we can suggest something similar elsewhere/


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## funkster (Mar 6, 2005)

KarmaBum said:
			
		

> Sounds too stressful.
> 
> Why do you have your heart set on America? Maybe we can suggest something similar elsewhere/



My girlfriend has her heart set on a trip through the US.  We were planning driving through the desert, doing Las vegas, California, Arizona, then flying for a weekend in NYC, then flying to the Bahamas for a week of chilling out...

I've done all these places in America but it'd be nice to experience them with my girlfriend. The ideal honeymoon would be half adventure/driving and half chilling on a beach - this would fit the bill nicely.

If we decided against it, our next choice would be Malaysia where we could have a mix of adventure and chilling by combining the city (KL) with rainforest/Borneo/orang utans, and then beach...

I know what you're thinking - America and Malaysia are a world apart!


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## KarmaBum (Mar 6, 2005)

I see what you mean, it's tricky. They are totally different. You need to get your GF's opinion that's the most important thing. 

If America is not a place you are likely never to want to go to again for work or pleasure then I reckon you have to chance your arm now, but get the visa sorted before you go so there is no nasty surprise upon arrival. However if it would make your life restricted in any way, to be banned for life that is, do it later when the stakes are lower and you have more time and propery legal advise. 

What I know of Malaysia is:

http://www.visitborneo.com/

From KL to Perhentian Islands you can take the railway through the jungle whetting your appetite for later on.

The Perhentians in the north east Malaysia are specacular. My favourite thing about Malaysia infact. And you can dive there (check you are going at the right time of year, I think you would be). Make sure you go to the larger of the two islands. Very chilled.

But then again two days on a train may not be your idea of fun.


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## llantwit (Aug 31, 2005)

Hi 

thanks for this thread - I'm having the samedilemma at the moment about the states, so it was good to read about it.

BTW, if you wanna go to Malaysia and want something REALLY special beachwise - check out a package tour to Tenggol Island off the east coast town of Dungun - just 2 resorts, most of thetime you get a tropical island beach paradise to yourself as not many people know the place exists (including most Malaysians), white sands, warm seas and great diving.

Google it for a look.

All the best


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## Fingers (Sep 2, 2005)

I would be very disturbed to think the US authories had a record of UK citizen's convictions.

I myself would chance not telling them but consult with your wife to see if she wants to take the risk, if not go to a more civilised country like afghanistan


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## trashpony (Sep 2, 2005)

This question has been asked at least twice in the last month or so - so you may want to do a search and see what's been said.

As I said on the other two threads, if you lie, you won't get found out. If you're honest, they won't let you in. 

Two years after my conviction, I moved to the US and lived there for a year, and have been back at least ten times since.


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## Fledgling (Sep 2, 2005)

mellowmoose said:
			
		

> Why not go somewhere with a bit more culture and history ?
> 
> America is wank.



Don't ever make the mistake of confusing the American "system" with the country itself, the two are so divorced from one another it isn't worth thinking about properly. I put up with all the crap and once there and travelling around it was fantastic. 

We are fed an image of America as a Bush-loving, right-wing, strict and hypocritical wild land and it is really not like that even in the middle there's a real heart to the place and plenty of culture, I visited a great art gallery in Minneapolis, Japanese gardens in Portland, Cannery Row in Montery, Washington DC's Smithsonian and more. 

There is just as much cultrue/art etc as Europe, this beleif that Europe or Britian is more cultural is carp, we have older buildings that is all. 

Personally I would advise either: 

1. Honestly declare it and just explain to the officials EXACTLY what happened and your "remorse". Not all officials there are complete nuts. 

2. Fly to Canada, say Winnepeg or as suggested Vancouver, or Toronto and cross by land. Still declare it but at a small customs place they might be more interested than concerned. The remote crossings are full of bored officials, I put up stupid questions from them because the only other traffic was drunken Americans. 

3. If you have any US friends try to get them to meet you at the border or in Canada. 

But I haven't any convictions so can't say more than this. Ultimately if you're real worried go somewhere else and visit the US another time. 

I am so sad that such a great place is being turned into a hypocritical fortress (see any discussion on freedom), it's such a shame and portrays that place in such a poor light. 

But then when did government ever represent decent people?


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## JWH (Sep 2, 2005)

post, fledgling!


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## funkster (Sep 17, 2005)

I don't think they can check.


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## Hatman2005 (Oct 5, 2005)

*Puzzled.*

So why do they demand that we admit our spent convictions if they cannot check up on them ?


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## JWH (Oct 5, 2005)

So they can convict you of perjury and deport you if they find out.


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## MacOSExtended (Oct 6, 2005)

trashpony said:
			
		

> This question has been asked at least twice in the last month or so - so you may want to do a search and see what's been said.
> 
> As I said on the other two threads, if you lie, you won't get found out. If you're honest, they won't let you in.
> 
> Two years after my conviction, I moved to the US and lived there for a year, and have been back at least ten times since.




Spot on. I've got a few convictions involving 'moral turpitude' and the sort (  ) and have travelled back and forth a fair few times on a waiver. No problems at all, they can't check

Go for it.


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## dogmatique (Oct 10, 2005)

A friend of mine flew out to Miami for a week to do a gig earlier in the year, he's got a 10 year old conviction for posession of Cannabis (40 quid fine, 1995).

Was pulled up at immigration for the once over, and immediately refused entry once they'd checked his records.

So, if they take you to one side for whatever reason, you're probably fucked.


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## dylanredefined (Oct 10, 2005)

Do what the embassy  say you have to . Immgration officials in the us have no sense of humour and behave like everyone is a terrorist why ruin a trip by trying to bluff this one . 
               P.s  the quote" is not sole purpose of trip " and they didn't find it funny  then .


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## rdragon (Oct 11, 2005)

oh no no no no. border crossings south of vancouver are brutally sticky, especially if you are on a bus (coach)


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## rdragon (Oct 11, 2005)

*U.S., Spain*

first, I live in Canada, and would not, repeat NOT try getting into the States without a valid visa. If your visa shows a criminal  record of any sort and you are not Martha Stewart rowing pumpkins, you will not get in. do not try this on your honeymoon.

second, anybody know if Malaga, Spain is worth going to? How about as a base for exploring the surrounding country?


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## Valve (Oct 15, 2005)

not worth it.

come to vancouver!


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## rubbershoes (Oct 17, 2005)

rdragon said:
			
		

> second, anybody know if Malaga, Spain is worth going to? How about as a base for exploring the surrounding country?



full of drunk brits. but the surrounding countryside can be lovely. you'll need to hire a car


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## JWH (Oct 17, 2005)

But you don't have to go far (10 miles) to get to the really nice parts, do you? Is that right or am I misremembering stuff?


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## spitfire (Oct 17, 2005)

I went to the US wiith a band in the late nineties and some of them were sent back for moral turpitude convictions. They had attempted to get a visa waiver and failed, then decided to try and be tourists. Didn't work.

Some of these guys have tried again and succeeded (using official channels) so being refused once doesnt necessarily mean you will never be able to get in.

Stick to the boring rules, get a different solicitor. A visa specialist. Alternatively go somewhere else. The INS are a pain in the neck and proper hardcore. 

But like the others said above, the yanks are generally open, friendly people it's their govt. that are the problem.


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## chilango (Oct 18, 2005)

rdragon said:
			
		

> oh no no no no. border crossings south of vancouver are brutally sticky, especially if you are on a bus (coach)



Yup. You may be the only non N American on the bus, so the _Migra_ can spend the whole time checking just you out.

A nasty border crossing.


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## DBAK33 (Mar 16, 2010)

Does anyone know if u can enter the usa whilst on bail in the U.K??


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 17, 2010)

DBAK33 said:


> Does anyone know if u can enter the usa whilst on bail in the U.K??



I did and had no problems.

Wasn't a very serious charge, section 63 and public entertainments stuff, unconditional bail. Just don't mention it to the authorities.


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## A. Spies (Mar 28, 2010)

if it's for a holiday then, don't declare it!
 I declared mine and they blatantly hadn't got a clue what the visa was for at the US-canaa border crossing for even after I'd given all my details to their embassy in London. I don't think they have a clue in the vast majority of cases. Also if you declare to the US and fly to Canada prepare to be searched and questioned good and proper, I found the American border ppl chilled out but the Canadians proper wankers to deal with.


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## Riklet (Mar 29, 2010)

I've heard what can be a good idea if you're "at risk" of not being let in, like, is to fly to Dublin as there's a US immigrations visa doo-da there, so if you have your records properly searched and you're not allowed into the US, it's not too much bother getting back to the UK... heh, you could just chill in Ireland instead.  Beats arriving in LA/NY and getting told to fuck reeet off, plus having to buy the flights yada yada.


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## pogofish (Mar 29, 2010)

Riklet said:


> I've heard what can be a good idea if you're "at risk" of not being let in, like, is to fly to Dublin as there's a US immigrations visa doo-da there,



Pre-clearance.  At Dublin and Shannon - Here is the definitive list:

http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/toolbox/contacts/preclear_locations.xml

You could go via the Carribean or Canada as well I see.


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## Hollis (Apr 10, 2010)

See following from Lonely Planet travel forum:  (dated Sept 2009)..

"Hello to all. 

I have recently been granted a US tourist visa from the embassy in London. I had to apply for a visa because I had 2 cautions for possessing class c drug around 4-5 years ago. 

Hopefully this post will help answer any of your questions. 'Cartonblue' is correct in what he/she posted so ill try not to repeat.

I had already paid for my trip before realising that I needed a visa. This is the process I followed including costs.


Applied for police certificate from ACPO - £70 4 day responce. (£35 one can take 12 days) 


Phoned embassy to book appointment (£15 phone charge) where I was instructed to scan certificate and completed VCU 1 form and email across for them to approve. 


Received email confirming approval. I then had to phone embassy again (£10 phone charge) to book appointment (£85) using only visa or mastercard. I managed to get an appointment for 7 days later. 


Travelled to embassy complete with necessary forms. Booking confirmation, VCU1 form, police certificate, passport, DS-156 form, DS-157 form, flight details, bank statements. 


Sat and waited for my number to be called before approaching kiosk and handing over forms. Sat back down and waited to be called to another kiosk. Here I discussed my cautions, reasons for visit etc with an official. She confirmed then that I had been approved for a visa (which was a great relief). As my case didnt need referring and was confirmed on the day I recieved my passport back 3 days later complete with visa (£15). 

Total cost then = £195 + travel costs and day off work.
Total time from start to finish = 23 days.

I would recommend that if you do have a caution that you declare it and apply for a visa. It will cost some time and money but if you allow for this when planning your trip it will make your trip more enjoyable as you wont be stressing about getting into the country.

Like I said previously, I hope this has helped you but if you have anymore q's just post them and ill try to answer.

Enjoy your hols people. "


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## JWH (Apr 18, 2010)

DBAK33 said:


> Does anyone know if u can enter the usa whilst on bail in the U.K??



I realise you asked a month ago but if you look at the green I-94W form here: http://www.3viajesaldia.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/i-94w.JPG

Question B on the right hand side asks "Have you ever been *arrested or convicted*..." for an offence or crime that's one of several categories. So if the charge falls into one of those categories (whether or not you were convicted, or the charges were dropped/substituted, or it's "spent" in the UK, or you're on bail), yes, you are _supposed_ to declare it.

(BTW, I am completely ignorant about this: if you're on bail, are some sort of travel restrictions part of the terms automatically or would they have to be specifically imposed?)

(Double BTW, I am completely clueless about whether they still bother with the I-94W now they have that electronic system in place or whether it's the same questions on both or whatever).


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## DJWrongspeed (Apr 19, 2010)

Fledgling said:


> Don't ever make the mistake of confusing the American "system" with the country itself, the two are so divorced from one another it isn't worth thinking about properly. I put up with all the crap and once there and travelling around it was fantastic.
> 
> We are fed an image of America as a Bush-loving, right-wing, strict and hypocritical wild land and it is really not like that even in the middle there's a real heart to the place and plenty of culture, I visited a great art gallery in Minneapolis, Japanese gardens in Portland, Cannery Row in Montery, Washington DC's Smithsonian and more.
> 
> There is just as much cultrue/art etc as Europe, this beleif that Europe or Britian is more cultural is carp, we have older buildings that is all.



I agree here , the US is spectacular in it's landscape and it's art.  It's just that Europe has far more layers of culture and is also denser. It's towns have evolved organically over generations and obviously it's far more multi lingual.

 I'd advise not spending a honeymoon in the US though,


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## Jason West (Mar 2, 2012)

America has a great apeal, in many ways, from the amazing nature to the circus of different peoples there etc.  However, the idea that you have to declare an arrest even without conviction is in the least hurtful and just morally wrong, and in the extreme surely some kind of human rights contravention - at least it feels like it.  People in a civilised world should always be considered innocent unless/until proven guilty.  To treat everyone as a potential bad person because they were a victim of one of life's bad days isn't easy to accept as civilised.  9/11 was bad, very very bad, so we have to try to understand why the Americans are being so cautious, but the reality is, if the bad guys want to hurt the US then they're not gonna send fanatics with records of arrest, they're gonna send bad guys with clean slates.  The terrorists are evil, not stupid.  I'd take my holidays elsewhere, and stop hurting, it's not worth it.


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## lizzieloo (Mar 2, 2012)

EPIC BUMPAGE


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## NICE GUY JIM (Oct 17, 2012)

so I've been looking in to this and have found something interesting that I felt i should share:

*9 FAM 40.21(a) N2.3-4 Intentional Distribution of Controlled Substances*
_(CT:VISA-1810; 02-23-2012)_
 _The Board of Immigration Appeals has determined that a conviction for the intentional distribution of a controlled substance or a conviction for drug trafficking is now considered to a crime involving moral turpitude. A typical drug statute that would constitute a crime involving moral turpitude is “possession with intent to distribute.” In order to be a crime involving moral turpitude, a conviction is required, as an ineligibility under INA 212(a)(2)(C)(1) based only on “reason to believe”, and not a conviction is not a crime involving moral turpitude. The mere possession or use of a controlled substance is not a crime involving moral turpitude._ 

this is the document that I found it in http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86942.pdf


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## Stanley Edwards (Oct 17, 2012)

What is this? Bot spam, or summat? Very strange.


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## il_bastardo (Oct 18, 2012)

dead thread wtf


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## Kevin78 (Aug 11, 2013)

Note for minor offenders: go to Canada or Australia instead! (fly direct to Canada, do NOT pass through US airspace) As long as you've not been in jail for 12 months of more, Australia will let you visit. Canada are a lot more liberal to offenders than their US counterparts. Plus, if you're an EU passport holder - make use of it and visit some great countries on the European mainland visa free (France, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, Italy, Poland, Czech Republic etc). If the Yanks don't want your tourist dollar$ then convert them to €uro's, or Canadian Dollar$ instead. Give your custom to a civilised country. I've been to Florida once, wasn't impressed. I wont be back though, since my breach of the peace conviction "might" get me stopped at US Border Control. As far as I'm concerned, they can stick their country up their ar**. Their food is revolting, they all act like spoiled brats, they are forever shouting and demanding everything. Irrespective of my conviction, I still wouldn't go back anyway. Canada is a different story, the people there are civilised and warm/friendly. I recommend Toronto! It's a wonderful city, and the people there are ultra friendly and have humour, something the Americans don't have. Tell a yank a joke and their response is "geeeeeesh, I keent understeeeeend"


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## keybored (Aug 12, 2013)

Kevin78 said:


> humour, something the Americans don't have.



Bit unfair dismissing them for the way they spell some words. But otherwise, a really helpful post.


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