# Doctor Who Series 10



## Lazy Llama (Feb 27, 2017)

Capaldi's last season starts on Saturday 15th April.


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## CNT36 (Mar 7, 2017)

Proper Cybermen in the finale.


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## ginger_syn (Mar 13, 2017)

New trailer looks very good


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 13, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Proper Cybermen in the finale.


Thank fuck. I hate those hippy modern ones in flares.
I have a soft spot for 80s cyber men too, beril reid, adric.


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## CNT36 (Mar 13, 2017)

Yeah, the Earthshock/Five Doctors design is my favorite of the later more rectangular shaped Cybermen. My first ones.


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## Wilf (Mar 13, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Yeah, the Earthshock/Five Doctors design is my favorite of the later more rectangular shaped Cybermen. My first ones.


I look forward to Touching Cloth jokes


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## DotCommunist (Mar 13, 2017)

I fucking hate cybermen. Just not scary or iconic. They look like twats.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 13, 2017)

The old ones were brilliant!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 13, 2017)

Bring back the movalans.


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## Wilf (Mar 13, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I fucking hate cybermen. Just not scary or iconic. They look like twats.


'Tights on yer head and a shit version of a miners helmet - should work'


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## Wilf (Mar 13, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Bring back the movalans.


Not as good as Arret, but a bit cheaper.


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## ginger_syn (Mar 14, 2017)

The cybus ones are my favourite of the cybermen,stompy  shiney and a little bit gruff, what's not to like.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 14, 2017)

Missy is back. Too much matt lucas already


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## CNT36 (Mar 14, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Bring back the movalans.


Don't joke. There were silver dreads in the trailer after the Christmas special.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 14, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Don't joke. There were silver dreads in the trailer after the Christmas special.


What what?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 14, 2017)

I know it gets panned but that Dalek VS the Movalans adventure was a memorable high point for me as a kid. When the Dalek trapped them in the corridor (and next week they escaped before it got there) and when the Movalan face came off. Wow, who cares if for one story Daleks were suddenly robots.


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## ginger_syn (Mar 14, 2017)

Is that the one where you fleetingly see the dalek operators feet?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 14, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> Is that the one where you fleetingly see the dalek operators feet?


I don't know, I didn't see any feet.


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 14, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I know it gets panned but that Dalek VS the Movalans adventure was a memorable high point for me as a kid. When the Dalek trapped them in the corridor (and next week they escaped before it got there) and when the Movalan face came off. Wow, who cares if for one story Daleks were suddenly robots.



Terry Nation's script for that was mauled to death by the then script editor, a certain Douglas Adams.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 14, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Terry Nation's script for that was mauled to death by the then script editor, a certain Douglas Adams.



I don't know how Terry had the script before Douglas edited it, but I enjoyed it. 
I like the City of Death too, two very memorable stories with exciting cliff hangers. I miss cliff hangers.


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## Lazy Llama (Mar 14, 2017)

Doctor Who needs more Ogrons. 
They were proper sidekick baddies.


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## ginger_syn (Mar 14, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't know, I didn't see any feet.


It's a very fleeting glimpse


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## CNT36 (Mar 14, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What what?


Doctor Who Series 10 Trailer Teases Daleks, Bill Potts, and… Movellans?!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 14, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Doctor Who Series 10 Trailer Teases Daleks, Bill Potts, and… Movellans?!


Ha ha ha, get in!!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 14, 2017)

Jaggeroth?


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## Santino (Mar 25, 2017)

Missy was in the trailer on just now.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 25, 2017)

Santino said:


> Missy was in the trailer on just now.


she was in the last trailer as well but blink n miss


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## discobastard (Mar 26, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Jaggeroth?


Jagaroth


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## CNT36 (Mar 26, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> she was in the last trailer as well but blink n miss


Word on the street is she is in the finale with the Cybermen. I hope they are not her pets. The first story is about Daleks and she was last seen on Skaro so maybe she'll show up then as well. I'm still waiting for the battle across time and space season between the Master and the Doctor a tabloid promised a decade ago. I'm not a cyber hater like DC but they have been shit on since the return. Owned by the Daleks, defeated by James Corden's love and redesigned to become more of a threat only to become hilarious flying henchmen shortly after.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2017)

New companion is gay apparently. It shouldn't cause the earth to shatter since Captain Jack was a character and he was gay, but I bet there will be moans into points of view anyway


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## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2017)

Simms is coming back, as the master. If the doc can timey-wimey it so three hims get together, why not Simms and Missy? Same bag of tricks from the same planet.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2017)

The Pilot—Steven Moffat

Smile—Frank Cottrell-Boyce

Thin Ice—Sarah Dollard

Knock Knock—Mike Bartlett

Oxygen—Jamie Mathieson

Extremis—Steven Moffat

The Pyramid at the End of the World—Peter Harness

The Lie of the Land—Toby Whithouse

The Empress of Mars—Mark Gatiss

The Eaters of Light—Rona Munro

hope the gatiss one isn't shit as its a penultimate


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## ginger_syn (Apr 12, 2017)

I'm glad gatiss is back as a writer I generally enjoy his episodes and sleep no more is one of my favourite rewatch.


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## agricola (Apr 12, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Simms is coming back, as the master. If the doc can timey-wimey it so three hims get together, why not Simms and Missy? Same bag of tricks from the same planet.



Hopefully she kills him, ideally screaming "you ruined season three" whilst she bludgeons him with some form of heavier-than-it-looks stick.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 12, 2017)

nonsense, simms was great even when they wrote him as a bit like evil jesus


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## mwgdrwg (Apr 12, 2017)

Great as he was, whenever I think of the Simms Master I think of this image:


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## DotCommunist (Apr 15, 2017)

Oh that will more than do. Way more than do. She's great. The tardis interior is great. The monster of the week was that perfect thing of making the ordinary terrifying. Loved that thing of the docs ' I won't do this again' but he has to because of his tragic love affair with earth and its interesting inhabitants. And newbie got some solid gold lols in. Even lucas made me laugh once. Plus time war!

watched on new projector which came with a suspiciously large discount from someone who clearly isn't an authorised epson salesman

colours so rich it was bleeding my eyeballs out. That shot of the Tardis on the far future world with its bright blue against those rich tans. omg


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## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 15, 2017)

That's about as good a companion intro as there's been. Great stuff.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 15, 2017)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> That's about as good a companion intro as there's been. Great stuff.


the mind wipe bit was brilliant


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## May Kasahara (Apr 15, 2017)

I really enjoyed that


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## 8den (Apr 15, 2017)

bah outside the uk and my vpn isn't working for iplayer.


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## 8den (Apr 15, 2017)

Although, my current mood (anticipation at hearing positive rumours) is as close to happy as I can ever get with Moffat era Who, so maybe I should leave well alone.


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## DexterTCN (Apr 15, 2017)

What was in the vault then?


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## PursuedByBears (Apr 15, 2017)

May Kasahara said:


> I really enjoyed that



Oh yes. In spades. She's great, and so is he.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 15, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> What was in the vault then?


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## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 15, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


>



Time War vintage too, I'll bet.


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 16, 2017)

Just watched it on iplayer.

Thought it was fucking excellent (that might be the wine speaking though).

I LOVE Bill. She's great. The whole episode seemed really well put together. It flowed nicely. It felt more cohesive than some from the past couple of seasons. I'm an episode in and Bill is already on target to be one of my favourite companions, if not my absolute favourite (sorry Donna). Even Matt Lucas wasn't too objectionable.


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## Helen Back (Apr 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Plus time war!



Dalek / Movellan war.


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## ginger_syn (Apr 16, 2017)

Really good start to the series with a nice simple introduction episode,  loved the Doctor's study and liked pearl mackie and bill straight away, Matt Lucas fits comfortably into the tardis, the nine year old granddaughter really enjoyed it and found it creepy enough to hide behind a cushion more than once (and I do love that Dr Who is still doing that for kids so long after the first episode)  and she liked bill which is a good sign as she was very fond of clara and wasnt sure about a new companion.a definite thumbs-up all round in my house on the first episode.


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## Gromit (Apr 16, 2017)

Most of the outside scenes were filmed at the Bioscience and Chemistry buildings of Cardiff university. 

For some reason they tried to make out it was St Luke's University Bristol. 

Why didn't they just say it was Cardiff? No reason it couldn't have all taken place in Cardiff.


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## 1927 (Apr 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Most of the outside scenes were filmed at the Bioscience and Chemistry buildings of Cardiff university.
> 
> For some reason they tried to make out it was St Luke's University Bristol.
> 
> Why didn't they just say it was Cardiff? No reason it couldn't have all taken place in Cardiff.


Apart from the fact that its the only place that Dr Who ever goes!


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## DexterTCN (Apr 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


>


Kirk Lazarus!


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## Gromit (Apr 16, 2017)

1927 said:


> Apart from the fact that its the only place that Dr Who ever goes!


Well yeah. Everyone in the office used to get excited and watch them filming out the window... at first. 

Then it was ffs are they hogging all the parking and forcing us to walk detours again. Bloody Doctor Who.

But this time the story is that it's a university so why not just go with it being the one they're actually using.


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## Plumdaff (Apr 16, 2017)

The puddle was located in the cut through the Biochemistry building to the Psychology Tower I use every Wednesday 

#dullandspecificdrwhofilminglocations


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## ginger_syn (Apr 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> ...
> 
> But this time the story is that it's a university so why not just go with it being the one they're actually using.


Perhaps it because  if it had  Cardiff he would have had to avoid captain jack and torchwood for fifty years.


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## PursuedByBears (Apr 16, 2017)

This can't be true can it?

Kris Marshall (My Family twat) to take over as the Doctor



Hopefully it's just Sunday paper nonsense


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## DotCommunist (Apr 16, 2017)

just bookies wisdom so far. I'd take Swinton as a more credible rumour.


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## belboid (Apr 16, 2017)

Caught up now, and hell, yes. A proper good start to the series. Bill is great. Nice to see a companion flirting with someone other than the Doctor. 

And two women writers this series! That's as many as in the last five years I think.


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 16, 2017)

PursuedByBears said:


> This can't be true can it?
> 
> Kris Marshall (My Family twat) to take over as the Doctor
> 
> ...



I'm going to punch a person if this is true.


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## Gromit (Apr 16, 2017)

PursuedByBears said:


> This can't be true can it?
> 
> Kris Marshall (My Family twat) to take over as the Doctor
> 
> ...



He'll transform the series. 

I was worried when he took over Death in Paradise but bizarrely (despite being that crap bloke from My Family) he took it on, made it his own and props to him completely turned it around...

... from a half decent programme to a completely dreadful one.


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 16, 2017)

It just feels utterly tone deaf and boring and same-old same-old for it to be another white man. So they're scared of making the Doctor a woman? I'll give them shit for that, but are they also scared of making the Doctor black? Or Asian? 

The minorities can make up the supporting cast. But the show will always be led by the male white saviour.

It's just getting fucking boring now.


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 17, 2017)

The Doctor is supposed to be a genius. How can he be played by some cunt who is too thick to even spell Chris?


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## DexterTCN (Apr 17, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> The Doctor is supposed to be a genius. How can he be played by some cunt who is to thick to even spell Chris?


too*


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 17, 2017)

Yeah but I'm not auditioning for the part am I?


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## billy_bob (Apr 17, 2017)

Just caught up. Good start - not so much series-story-arc nonsense that the episode's story didn't have time to develop properly (although the trailer at the end suggests they'll make up for lost time there...). Least annoying companion in a very long time.


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## not-bono-ever (Apr 17, 2017)

I dropped out of Who when the kids lost interest- but halfway enjoyed this one


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## ginger_syn (Apr 18, 2017)

Granddaughter number one came round today and wanted to watch it again  as soon as she came in so definitely a hit  with her, and I still enjoyed it as well despite it being the fourth time I've seen it.


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## CNT36 (Apr 18, 2017)

The first Time Lord will be joining Capaldi for Doctor Who Christmas special

There will only ever be one First Doctor and that's Richard Hurndall.


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 19, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> The first Time Lord will be joining Capaldi for Doctor Who Christmas special
> 
> There will only ever be one First Doctor and that's Richard Hurndall.



Oddly enough it was the mirror reporting the other day that Capaldi would be replaced by Marshall before the Christmas episode. Hopefully this means that the supposed source on Marshall's casting was just trolling.

I do feel a bit bad for Marshall if he's reading all the bad reactions to the rumours about him being the new Doctor, but then again people wouldn't be so upset about it if he weren't so completely shit. Maybe he should reflect on that.


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 19, 2017)

Capaldi did a bit of a cryptic interview though, saying that he's filmed his death scene already, but that he's in the Christmas episode and hasn't filmed that yet.

From what I understand, I don't think things go down this time quite as we expect them to.

OH MY wouldn't it be a turn up if he regenerates into John Simm.


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 19, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Capaldi did a bit of a cryptic interview though, saying that he's filmed his death scene already, but that he's in the Christmas episode and hasn't filmed that yet.
> 
> From what I understand, I don't think things go down this time quite as we expect them to.
> 
> OH MY wouldn't it be a turn up if he regenerates into John Simm.



The mirror article linked to above has some spoilers on this point if you're that bothered. I kinda wish I hadn't read them tbh.


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 19, 2017)

Spoilers or speculation based on "anonymous sources"?


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## spanglechick (Apr 19, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Capaldi did a bit of a cryptic interview though, saying that he's filmed his death scene already, but that he's in the Christmas episode and hasn't filmed that yet.
> 
> From what I understand, I don't think things go down this time quite as we expect them to.
> 
> OH MY wouldn't it be a turn up if he regenerates into John Simm.


Yes, I picked up on that discrepancy in his Graham Norton interview.   


Simm though? Surely not.  Can't see him committing to it.


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## stuff_it (Apr 19, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> Great as he was, whenever I think of the Simms Master I think of this image:


Innit. Just dreadful. Proper plot fail.


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## Chz (Apr 19, 2017)

Gromit said:


> He'll transform the series.
> 
> I was worried when he took over Death in Paradise but bizarrely (despite being that crap bloke from My Family) he took it on, made it his own and props to him completely turned it around...
> 
> ... from a half decent programme to a completely dreadful one.


Oh now.. True he doesn't have a tremendous range to his acting, but he's generally had the good fortune to be stuck in things that suit him. My Life in Film (terribly underrated) suited him, Death in Paradise suited him, I can see Who suiting him as well. That terrible family thing didn't suit anyone at all, and that wasn't his fault.

Plus if you want to see awful, try Ardal O'Hanlon in DiP. I don't give it much credence - have the bookies ever been right about this stuff?


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## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2017)

obligatory speculation that its the valeyard in the vault.


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## kabbes (Apr 19, 2017)

I am clearly alone in finding the first episode utterly average.  I was mostly bored.


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## Santino (Apr 19, 2017)

kabbes said:


> I am clearly alone in finding the first episode utterly average.  I was mostly bored.


It was more than average - it was _ok_.


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## kabbes (Apr 19, 2017)

Santino said:


> It was more than average - it was _ok_.


You have always been known for your sweet-natured over-generosity in matters of critique.


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## Santino (Apr 19, 2017)

Thinking back, Matt Smith's first episode crammed in a lot more - introducing both a new Doctor and companion, and allowing Smith to grandstand a lot.


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## Gromit (Apr 19, 2017)

Santino said:


> Thinking back, Matt Smith's first episode crammed in a lot more - introducing both a new Doctor and companion, and allowing Smith to grandstand a lot.


Thinking back Ecleston crammed in a lot more. The whole Who ting to a new generation.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2017)

Mgann's introduction crammed in the most.


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 19, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> Yes, I picked up on that discrepancy in his Graham Norton interview.
> 
> 
> Simm though? Surely not.  Can't see him committing to it.



Could see it happening in a kind of twist-fake out moment. Like a not-quite-real regeneration, and then he regens proper later on.

If it is Missy who regens back into Simm, would this be the first time they've ever done a regen that uses a previous likeness?

I wonder how personality works in that case, since personality is always subtly different (while retaining a lot of what went before).


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## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2017)

well from what I recall of whoniverse lore most regens are done under controlled circumstances whereas the doc just keeps fucking himself up by falling off telescope towers and getting machine gunned in the chest etc. Same as his Tardis is off beam wrt the chameleon circuit.

But the master/missy have well jumped the cycle a long time ago and the sisters of mercy (yes I know but I'm not looking it up) took the doc beyond timelord tech when they turned mgann into hurt. So fuck knows I say.


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## ebonics (Apr 19, 2017)

Fucking loved it. Have watched it three or four times so far, and am really going to enjoy Bill out the gate (something I have struggled with some of the past companions). Not absolutely sure what the hell Matt Lucas offers, but hey ho.


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## CNT36 (Apr 19, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Could see it happening in a kind of twist-fake out moment. Like a not-quite-real regeneration, and then he regens proper later on.
> 
> If it is Missy who regens back into Simm, would this be the first time they've ever done a regen that uses a previous likeness?
> 
> I wonder how personality works in that case, since personality is always subtly different (while retaining a lot of what went before).


There were hints that the character Tom Baker played in Day of the Doctor was a future Doctor.


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## Who PhD (Apr 20, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Capaldi did a bit of a cryptic interview though, saying that he's filmed his death scene already, but that he's in the Christmas episode and hasn't filmed that yet.
> 
> From what I understand, I don't think things go down this time quite as we expect them to.
> 
> OH MY wouldn't it be a turn up if he regenerates into John Simm.


Well the doctor is meant to turn evil somewhere between his 12th and final incarnation. :O


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## CNT36 (Apr 20, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Could see it happening in a kind of twist-fake out moment. Like a not-quite-real regeneration, and then he regens proper later on.
> 
> If it is Missy who regens back into Simm, would this be the first time they've ever done a regen that uses a previous likeness?
> 
> I wonder how personality works in that case, since personality is always subtly different (while retaining a lot of what went before).


Also he was Dave twice but that was a cheat.


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## Gromit (Apr 20, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Well the doctor is meant to turn evil somewhere between his 12th and final incarnation. :O


Not exactly evil. Your human expressions are insufficient to understand the complexity of Timelord ethics.


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## Who PhD (Apr 20, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Not exactly evil. Your human expressions are insufficient to understand the complexity of Timelord ethics.


You killed Peri!


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## Gromit (Apr 20, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> You killed Peri!


Oh no I didn't!

Besides she wasn't killed.


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## 8den (Apr 22, 2017)

It's a bit "silence in the library"


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## Who PhD (Apr 22, 2017)

That was ok. Not great. 

Bill isn't written as well as I'd like, but she's ok.

Plot was a bit dull.

Ok.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2017)

yeah I think it was good enough, a few lols, a bit of doc grandstanding 'grief becomes a problem' etc. But very vashta yes. Obvious hapiness control lineage. Did anyone spot any direct references to said story?


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## billy_bob (Apr 22, 2017)

I did find myself trying to maintain a smile...


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 22, 2017)

I thought it was fine. The grief epidemic was a bit obvious. It's always a bit meh when you're a couple of steps ahead of the script. But it was fine. And I really like Bill's straightforward enthusiasm.

Second episode of the series tends to be a bit of a damp fart compared to the first though, doesn't it?


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## Santino (Apr 22, 2017)

Bowie/Ashes to Ashes reference. Brought to mind Waters of Mars.

John Simm was not in Ashes to Ashes. But, Keeley Hawes, who appeared in Capaldi's first series, was.


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## billy_bob (Apr 22, 2017)

Santino said:


> Bowie/Ashes to Ashes reference. Brought to mind Waters of Mars.
> 
> John Simm was not in Ashes to Ashes. But, Keeley Hawes, who appeared in Capaldi's first series, was.



I noticed that too. Also 'erewhon'. Moderately clever.


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## mwgdrwg (Apr 23, 2017)

First time I can't be bothered to even watch since new Who returned.


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## Who PhD (Apr 23, 2017)

I noticed 'erewhon' just not sure of its significance.

I think the episode front loaded it's premise "be happy or die" and didn't really back it up leaving us with not a lot to work with.


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## billy_bob (Apr 23, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I noticed 'erewhon' just not sure of its significance.
> 
> I think the episode front loaded it's premise "be happy or die" and didn't really back it up leaving us with not a lot to work with.



I agree, started out with more than it ended up with.

Erewhon = apparent utopia that turns out not to be. Anyone can Google up that much, though, so maybe there's more to it. I'd bet it's going to turn up in other episodes in due course.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2017)

acceptable levels of running down corridors. Bills got a nice backside. It did feel a bit less than last weeks but then last weeks was a cracker


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## Who PhD (Apr 23, 2017)

As much as I enjoy a good metaplot and a cryptic reference, I can watch a classic episode without having to google these odd winks and nudges or feeling something's going over my head that I need to get in order to enjoy the episode.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> As much as I enjoy a good metaplot and a cryptic reference, I can watch a classic episode without having to google these odd winks and nudges or feeling something's going over my head that I need to get in order to enjoy the episode.


and with moffat half of them will go nowhere. 'red herrings' or anoying cunt? I think I come down on option b


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## kabbes (Apr 23, 2017)

I enjoyed this one much more than the first one, actually, in spite of the negativity here.  Capaldi felt more natural.


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## Who PhD (Apr 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> and with moffat half of them will go nowhere. 'red herrings' or anoying cunt? I think I come down on option b


I don't mind the clever-clever stuff, but the resolution does often seem to (hell bent) fall short of the set up. Last year we got the 'hybrid' which turned out to be a 19yo immortal girl who must have spent all of eternity being asked for ID in pubs and off licenses. 

Also the BBC needs to stop overworking their actors. Capaldi looks utterly exhausted. Expecting them to spend months on end in press junkets, promo tours and comiccons the world over is unreasonable.


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## Gromit (Apr 23, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I don't mind the clever-clever stuff, but the resolution does often seem to (hell bent) fall short of the set up. Last year we got the 'hybrid' which turned out to be a 19yo immortal girl who must have spent all of eternity being asked for ID in pubs and off licenses.
> 
> Also the BBC needs to stop overworking their actors. Capaldi looks utterly exhausted. Expecting them to spend months on end in press junkets, promo tours and comiccons the world over is unreasonable.


You are Capaldi's wife and I claim my fiver.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I noticed 'erewhon' just not sure of its significance.
> 
> I think the episode front loaded it's premise "be happy or die" and didn't really back it up leaving us with not a lot to work with.


I noticed that too. The Samuel Butler book: Not the Utopia it first appears, but then not quite a dystopia either.

I liked this episode. It wasn't as good as last week, but it was a good, understandable story, with no meaningless gobbledygook pretending to mean something, and no exploding confusion making up for plot. Just a story, some good characterisation, and some good lines. I'm feeling good about this series. Looks like Capaldi might finally be getting the writing he deserves.


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## Who PhD (Apr 23, 2017)

Bit of a threadjack, but i'm currently in the process of spending my ESA on building a collection of classic Who. So the next serials I have to watch are either the Deadly Assassin or Warriors of the Deep. Seen them both before, but what do YOU think I should watch. 

As you were


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## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2017)

Pyramids of Mars
Happiness Patrol
Ark in Space
Remembrance of the Daleks
Battlefield


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## billy_bob (Apr 23, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> a 19yo immortal girl who must have spent all of eternity being asked for ID in pubs and off licenses.





It's these kinds of practicalities that never get enough airtime in SF.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Bit of a threadjack, but i'm currently in the process of spending my ESA on building a collection of classic Who. So the next serials I have to watch are either the Deadly Assassin or Warriors of the Deep. Seen them both before, but what do YOU think I should watch.
> 
> As you were


The War Games
City of Death
Spearhead From Space
The Dalek Invasion of Earth


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## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> It's these kinds of practicalities that never get enough airtime in SF.


its not a problem when she is in westeros because nobody smokes there and everybody drinks like a bastard


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## Who PhD (Apr 23, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> The War Games
> City of Death
> Spearhead From Space
> The Dalek Invasion of Earth


Don't have the War Games unfortunately. But i'm going through them in order, which means Deadly Assassin next with the episodes I do have. But Warriors of the Deep is too awesome to ignore so I'm happy to watch it out of sequence


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 23, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> It's these kinds of practicalities that never get enough airtime in SF.


Maisie is a decent actress but as a credible threat? No, she looks too young!


DotCommunist said:


> Pyramids of Mars
> Happiness Patrol
> Ark in Space
> Remembrance of the Daleks
> Battlefield


Happiness Patrol is awesome but I don't have that yet, likewise for Ark in Space.
I just got done with Pyramid, my favourite episode evar!
Remembrance and Battlefield are similarly great. Battlefield is criminally underrated.


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 23, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I don't mind the clever-clever stuff, but the resolution does often seem to (hell bent) fall short of the set up. Last year we got the 'hybrid' which turned out to be a 19yo immortal girl who must have spent all of eternity being asked for ID in pubs and off licenses.
> 
> Also the BBC needs to stop overworking their actors. Capaldi looks utterly exhausted. Expecting them to spend months on end in press junkets, promo tours and comiccons the world over is unreasonable.


The hybrid was not ashilda, it was a fake out made up by the doctor  as mentioned by the doctor in hell bent.as for Smile, a nice little second episode  grandkids were enthralled and I still enjoyed it on the second watch after they went home.


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 23, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> The hybrid was not ashilda, it was a fake out made up by the doctor  as mentioned by the doctor in hell bent.as for Smile, a nice little second episode  grandkids were enthralled and I still enjoyed it on the second watch after they went home.


I don't remember that, but Davros mentioned it first in the Magicians Apprentice two parter.


----------



## 8den (Apr 23, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> First time I can't be bothered to even watch since new Who returned.



I cannot remember when did little britain bloke become a regular? And do we know why the doctor is trapped on earth? And by whom? 

I literally cannot be arsed to rewatch the last series, and I realise know I missed the christmas special last year.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 23, 2017)

Ok.  That whole episode was spoiled by its own pre-credits sequence.  Seriously, apart from the sentience of the nanobots, and that they were the fabric of the buildings (both pretty "meh" points), they explained every aspect of the bloody mystery in the first two minutes.  Totally fucking pointless.


----------



## 8den (Apr 23, 2017)

Empty planet + creatures that devour you to the bone? Silence in the Library.
Human race doomed by ecosystem meant to protect them? Gridlocked.

ETA

Crushing dystopia where everyone is made happy? Happiness Patrol.

Also Bill lives on Doctor Who's Earth where at this junction an alien attack wouldn't merit a "breaking news" strapline on BBC 24, so her questions sometimes grate.


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 23, 2017)

8den said:


> Empty planet + creatures that devour you to the bone? Silence in the Library.
> Human race doomed by ecosystem meant to protect them? Gridlocked.
> 
> ETA
> ...


Actually the last part isn't true. The whole purpose of the metaplot during Matt Smith's first season was to effectively make it so no one knows about aliens. That's why Amy has no idea what a Dalek is during Victory of the Daleks.


----------



## 8den (Apr 23, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Actually the last part isn't true. The whole purpose of the metaplot during Matt Smith's first season was to effectively make it so no one knows about aliens. That's why Amy has no idea what a Dalek is during Victory of the Daleks.



I had forgotten that.

That PhD in Whovian studies is finally paying off.


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 23, 2017)

8den said:


> I had forgotten that.
> 
> That PhD in Whovian studies is finally paying off.



Yeah, but the student loan has ten billion years worth of interest!


----------



## kabbes (Apr 23, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> Ok.  That whole episode was spoiled by its own pre-credits sequence.  Seriously, apart from the sentience of the nanobots, and that they were the fabric of the buildings (both pretty "meh" points), they explained every aspect of the bloody mystery in the first two minutes.  Totally fucking pointless.


That's a great point.  Not that it made it pointless, exactly, but it would have been a much stronger episode without those first two minutes.

My bugbear was that obvious budget constraints had made them turn thousands of people coming out of hibernation into apparently less than a dozen.  And then those dozen should have been slaughtered by the microbots (NB not nanobots, which would be invisible!) within about 2 seconds flat.


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 23, 2017)

I didn't really understand why the colonists were written to be so stupid


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 23, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> As much as I enjoy a good metaplot and a cryptic reference, I can watch a classic episode without having to google these odd winks and nudges or feeling something's going over my head that I need to get in order to enjoy the episode.



I've nothing against 'meta' in principle but the overarching plots in Who nearly always feel to me like the writers trying to prove how much cleverer than us they are, rather than challenging us to prove we're clever enough to figure them out. Not least because they rarely turn out to be coherent enough for 'figuring them out' to be feasible. If it keeps the writers going I don't really mind that, but as long as it doesn't distract them from delivering satisfying plot development and resolution within the individual episodes.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 23, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I didn't really understand why the colonists were written to be so stupid



Ralf Little's character was a total nob. By the end I was under no illusion that a few weeks after the Doctor had left they'd be at it again, causing all sorts of mayhem and being total dicks. They didn't show them _learning_ from the experience. They were still colonialist twatfaces.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 24, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Ralf Little's character was a total nob. By the end I was under no illusion that a few weeks after the Doctor had left they'd be at it again, causing all sorts of mayhem and being total dicks. They didn't show them _learning_ from the experience. They were still colonialist twatfaces.


Yup.  I reckon they were about two weeks away from a second massacre.


----------



## 8den (Apr 24, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Ralf Little's character was a total nob. By the end I was under no illusion that a few weeks after the Doctor had left they'd be at it again, causing all sorts of mayhem and being total dicks. They didn't show them _learning_ from the experience. They were still colonialist twatfaces.


Any colony with one of the blokes from 2pints isn't the earth's best and brightest.


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 24, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Ralf Little's character was a total nob. By the end I was under no illusion that a few weeks after the Doctor had left they'd be at it again, causing all sorts of mayhem and being total dicks. They didn't show them _learning_ from the experience. They were still colonialist twatfaces.


Yes they were but they had just woken up to the news that their friends and family had been mulched by killer robots, I'd be a it miffed if it was me


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2017)

you have to admire the sheer swinging dick of someone who thinks you can fight an enemy who could destroy you into bones in minutes. Pea sized brain tho.


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 24, 2017)

True but I know when I'm woken up my brain is not at home to reasonable or intelligent thought, besides it would've been quite weird if they had been reasonable about it from the start.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2017)

also capaldi was at a 'march for science' in that london the other day. Which had somehow attracted an ant-brexit crowd and lamentations that scientists could now never work together over the continent now. Because apparently before the glorious EU there was no international journals, no exchange of ideas and european scientists never collaborated. Ever.


----------



## Santino (Apr 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> also capaldi was at a 'march for science' in that london the other day. Which had somehow attracted an ant-brexit crowd and lamentations that scientists could now never work together over the continent now. Because apparently before the glorious EU there was no international journals, no exchange of ideas and european scientists never collaborated. Ever.


Why don't the uneducated accept the guidance of their degree-bearing betters?


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> also capaldi was at a 'march for science' in that london the other day. Which had somehow attracted an ant-brexit crowd and lamentations that scientists could now never work together over the continent now. Because apparently before the glorious EU there was no international journals, no exchange of ideas and european scientists never collaborated. Ever.


and there's me thinking it was more about the funding that will be lost.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 24, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> and there's me thinking it was more about the funding that will be lost.


I'm not having this row on a doctor who thread. Some things are sacred. My morning coffee and Doctor Who


----------



## gosub (Apr 24, 2017)

Santino said:


> Why don't the uneducated accept the guidance of their degree-bearing betters?



Glasgow School of Art?


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm not having this row on a doctor who thread. Some things are sacred. My morning coffee and Doctor Who


No row, there was supposed to be a smiley face nobody wants to be mulch


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 24, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> Yes they were but they had just woken up to the news that their friends and family had been mulched by killer robots, I'd be a it miffed if it was me



Yeah, but there was no attempt to show they'd learned anything from the experience, so when the Doc left them it was pretty clear everyone would be dead in a month. It's one thing to understand why they'd go batshit when they woke up, but it's another to not bother showing that they learned from the experience. Weakest part of the episode.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 24, 2017)

8den said:


> Empty planet + creatures that devour you to the bone? Silence in the Library.
> Human race doomed by ecosystem meant to protect them? Gridlocked.
> 
> ETA
> ...


The Spaceship Uk one (Beast Below?) Earth survivors on a Spaceship being killed by smiling robots whose faces change when you're fucked. Last minute realisation sentient life is being exploited but you can figure it out. Ark in Space as well. Humans fleeing Earth in suspended animation pods under attack. Those being two of the ships evacuating Earth the Doctor mentioned he had bumped into. There's also the First Doctor one with the Ark fleeing Earth. Some alien worker types rebel and take over iirc. It's been 25 years since I watched it. Had a weird take on suspended animation as well with the population being shrunk to fit billions aboard and kept in drawers tended by those left awake and unshrunk.


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 24, 2017)

Well to be fair even bill was wondering if would work  at the end, but for myself I quite liked the ambiguity of whether the humans would play nice in the end.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 24, 2017)

Why did the cryogenic thingies wake up that one small boy first? 

Why did the colonists even have laser guns?

Some nice moments with the Doctor and Bill though, despite the fairly rubbish plot. I'm already hoping Pearl Mackie stays on post-Capaldi, she's great.


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 24, 2017)

Weren't they quick to fighting, and armed, because they were from a violent and destructive period on earth?


----------



## kabbes (Apr 24, 2017)

Everything from when the colonists woke up was stupid but that was only about five minutes' worth.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 29, 2017)

I was just thing 'oh nice a whole ep without matt lucas but then right at the end..'

a solid history one, racist toff gets his due. Decent monster. I'd rate it better than last week anyway


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 29, 2017)

I'm experiencing moffat related cognitive dissonance. 

These last two have been conceptually simple, so after almost a decade of timey wimey wibbly wobbly my brain can't process a simple story.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 29, 2017)

next weeks looks like a gatiss from the trailer. Theres a list somewhere upthread


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 29, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> next weeks looks like a gatiss from the trailer. Theres a list somewhere upthread


The Gatiss episode is the Ice Warrior one on Mars later on


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 29, 2017)

I thought tonight's was good. Bill continues to delight me. Lucas can fuck off but I like the idea that it seems we're going to be angry with him and not like him later on when he does the knocker's bidding. On that note... I mean, if you've got a thing keep running with it but I wonder when people will get annoyed with it. The knocking. The drums. It was three knocks, then the last time it was four. Gotta be Simm, right?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 29, 2017)

did the doc whitesplain a bit? I don't think he did. He played saviour of course but thats his whole bag and this is a new companion. The speech bit, you know the one. He spoke more to a universality than anything

that nardole/mysterious prison/vault bit was really crowbarred in


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 29, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> I thought tonight's was good. Bill continues to delight me. Lucas can fuck off but I like the idea that it seems we're going to be angry with him and not like him later on when he does the knocker's bidding. On that note... I mean, if you've got a thing keep running with it but I wonder when people will get annoyed with it. The knocking. The drums. It was three knocks, then the last time it was four. Gotta be Simm, right?


I think it was 3, but the whole knocking thing had nothing to do with the master himself.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 29, 2017)

It's shorthand for that though. The knocking was Wilf, but the theme went on further than that. 

With the vault, the first few times it was 3 knocks, but the very last one was 4. I counted


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 30, 2017)

I liked this week's story simple and unfussy, some excellent dialogue and the costume were lovely but will have to watch it again when the grandkids have gone home.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 30, 2017)

Episode gave Bill some opportunity for Bill to display some acting range. Nailed it. 

Gave Capaldi some opportunity to display acting range. Keanu Reeves'esk.


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 30, 2017)

I'm thinking that revealing John Simm's presence in the series was a mistake.

I'm also suspecting that Moffat is going to reveal the vault is occupied by the Doctor


----------



## Gromit (Apr 30, 2017)

The vault is inhabited by the very first PPI claims salesman. 
Unfortunately once opened a plague of PPI sales calls is started and continues to this day.  
This happens. It is inevitable.


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 30, 2017)

What if John Simm is the new Doctor!

mind...blown!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Apr 30, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> What if John Simm is the new Doctor!
> 
> mind...blown!


Like Vintage Paw suggested 2 weeks ago? 


Vintage Paw said:


> OH MY wouldn't it be a turn up if he regenerates into John Simm.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 30, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Could see it happening in a kind of twist-fake out moment. Like a not-quite-real regeneration, and then he regens proper later on.
> 
> If it is Missy who regens back into Simm, would this be the first time they've ever done a regen that uses a previous likeness?
> 
> I wonder how personality works in that case, since personality is always subtly different (while retaining a lot of what went before).


It wouldn't be previous from The Master's POV


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 30, 2017)

It could also be a flashback.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 30, 2017)

When romana regenerated she said it was possible to take on the appearance of people she had previously known, I think that had to be a choice though, not through death or any forced regeneration. She even tried on various bodies before deciding on romana 2.


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 30, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> When romana regenerated she said it was possible to take on the appearance of people she had previously known, I think that had to be a choice though, not through death or any forced regeneration. She even tried on various bodies before deciding on romana 2.


Same goes for the twelfth doctor


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 30, 2017)

Really? Who was that?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 30, 2017)

Pompeii Capaldi.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2017)

The doc obviously can't control his regens the way its meant to be. Sudden death and so on. The only time he controlled it was when mgann asked the sisters of whatsit for a specific regen and they are supposed to be 'more advanced than time lord science'

which also means the 12 regen limit has been surpassed imo, same as the master burnt through 12 regens and clings to life through various plot mgaffins


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 30, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Really? Who was that?


Alistair Campbell


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 30, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> The doc obviously can't control his regens the way its meant to be. Sudden death and so on. The only time he controlled it was when mgann asked the sisters of whatsit for a specific regen and they are supposed to be 'more advanced than time lord science'
> 
> which also means the 12 regen limit has been surpassed imo, same as the master burnt through 12 regens and clings to life through various plot mgaffins



MacGann was dying at that point, if he didn't accept their weird potion he would have died. He just asked them to help him become a warrior.

The doctor got a whole set of new regenerations at the end of Time of the Doctor which is how he morphed into Capaldi.

Yes I am this pedantic.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 30, 2017)

I'm really enjoying Dr who at the moment. My 10 year old daughter is loving it in the same way I did at ten, and watching it together is a real treat. Capaldi was the doctor that really grabbed her imagination which pisses on the idea that kids want a younger version. Her second favourite is baker, and she now loves vintage who to get the 'back story', she will even sit through some of the worst first Dr episodes for what she calls 'educational purposes' and almost certainly knows more about it than I remember.

Oddly positive Dr who post.


----------



## ginger_syn (May 1, 2017)

My three grandchildren really like capaldi's doctor, his age didn't phase them at all,'though to be fair to them they think mat Smith was a bit old as well


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 1, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> My three grandchildren really like capaldi's doctor, his age didn't phase them at all,'though to be fair to them they think mat Smith was a bit old as well


My daughter thinks he is a sap. Hates all the Geronimo, timey whimey rubbish. Quite likes that other dude before him, and really enjoyed the war doctor.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 1, 2017)

Oh, one comment on the last (not actually had) episode. Frost fairs were a cause of the old London bridge slowing the flow of the Thames. In the episode, they quite clearly used another bridge which would not have been there, and looked suspiciously like the second London bridge (later sold to lake havasu). Might even have been filmed in the area where a small bit of the bridge still remains. Bit jarring that the same small set was used over and over again. Hey, but thats quite true to old Dr who.


----------



## Who PhD (May 1, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'm really enjoying Dr who at the moment. My 10 year old daughter is loving it in the same way I did at ten, and watching it together is a real treat. Capaldi was the doctor that really grabbed her imagination which pisses on the idea that kids want a younger version. Her second favourite is baker, and she now loves vintage who to get the 'back story', she will even sit through some of the worst first Dr episodes for what she calls 'educational purposes' and almost certainly knows more about it than I remember.
> 
> Oddly positive Dr who post.


In case it's not already clear, I'm obsessed with it. I've allowed myself to get well into Who over the last few months and I do not apologise 

I intend to collect all the episodes. Best thing the BBC ever did (apart from that reality TV show where Andrew Neill died accidentally when he fell into a pit of venomous snakes - oh wait, that has yet to happen).


----------



## DotCommunist (May 1, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I'm obsessed with it


this is what you need when the who-fever grips too much


----------



## Who PhD (May 1, 2017)

I look forward to Sontaran Self Help!


----------



## ginger_syn (May 1, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> My daughter thinks he is a sap. Hates all the Geronimo, timey whimey rubbish. Quite likes that other dude before him, and really enjoyed the war doctor.


Youngest granddaughter who is almost 4 is obsessed with him and has watched the eleventh hour so much she knows amelias prayer word for word , grandson who's 9 prefers Tennant and McCoy and oldest granddaughter like Capaldi best and is very proud of the photo she has with him and I'm still a bit upset Pertwee left


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 1, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I intend to collect all the episodes.



Good luck with that  . Although there is audio and reconstructions of the missing episodes I suppose.


----------



## Who PhD (May 1, 2017)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Good luck with that  . Although there is audio and reconstructions of the missing episodes I suppose.


All the episodes that have survived, that is.

the animation they've done for the lost visuals is decent


----------



## danny la rouge (May 3, 2017)

I'm really liking this series. And the Teen, who had gone off it, has got back into it. So I'm very happy.


----------



## Who PhD (May 6, 2017)

Well, that was creepy and weird.

A bit like being a student!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 6, 2017)

Finally watched the first episode last night.

I've clearly missed something (xmas special maybe?) - why is Matt Lucas in the tardis


----------



## Gromit (May 6, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Finally watched the first episode last night.
> 
> I've clearly missed something (xmas special maybe?) - why is Matt Lucas in the tardis


He's not. He's in Bristol. 

Although he did step inside once this series to ask if the doctor wanted a cuppa.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 6, 2017)

not the greatest for me. The house eating people was cool enough but it didn't really get any zing going. Not actively shit but meh.


----------



## Gromit (May 6, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> not the greatest for me. The house eating people was cool enough but it didn't really get any zing going. Not actively shit but meh.


It was a one hour long show built around a pun. Woodlice geddit? Lice made of wood. Geddit?

Tack on a reveal which was like yawn.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 6, 2017)

Feels like they're setting it up to be Missy in the vault. She seems more the sort to play the piano than Simm's Master. And the comment about eating children or whatever it was... followed by piano music... seemed like a very Missy sort of thing.

I'd talked myself into it being an incarnation of the Doctor (possibly in the form of Simm). There's still time, eh?

(PUNTASTIC)


----------



## Gromit (May 6, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Feels like they're setting it up to be Missy in the vault. She seems more the sort to play the piano than Simm's Master. And the comment about eating children or whatever it was... followed by piano music... seemed like a very Missy sort of thing.
> 
> I'd talked myself into it being an incarnation of the Doctor (possibly in the form of Simm). There's still time, eh?
> 
> (PUNTASTIC)


All too obvious. 

I'm thinking it's his wife in one of her more murderous phases.


----------



## Cloo (May 6, 2017)

gsv and I were agreeing that Capaldi seems to have finally really got into the groove in this series, so a shame it's his last. I said I think that maybe the whole 'university lecturer' thing gives a good centre to his character, which it feels to me like they've been looking for (what with the guitar and the sonic sunglasses thing of the previous series) and it works, because turning up at a university for decades and lecturing on random shit is an entirely Doctor thing to do.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 6, 2017)

Cloo said:


> gsv and I were agreeing that Capaldi seems to have finally really got into the groove in this series, so a shame it's his last. I said I think that maybe the whole 'university lecturer' thing gives a good centre to his character, which it feels to me like they've been looking for (what with the guitar and the sonic sunglasses thing of the previous series) and it works, because turning up at a university for decades and lecturing on random shit is an entirely Doctor thing to do.



I agree. This feels like his thing. It's a shame he didn't get this opportunity earlier. I'll be sad to see him go (especially so if it is that fucking Kris Marshall bloke).

I'm putting an imaginary fiver on Simm replacing him (at least for a short while).


----------



## Who PhD (May 6, 2017)

I think he's been poorly written this season so far. No personality at all


----------



## DotCommunist (May 6, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> And the comment about eating children or whatever it was... followed by piano music... seemed like a very Missy sort of thing.


could be either of them. If the Doc is the xenokinder his twisted reflection is the one who pulls fly's wings off to see what happens. I hope its simms, best Master since delgado


----------



## T & P (May 6, 2017)

Best episode of this series so far, though I'll admit that doesn't necessarily amount to much.


----------



## Gromit (May 6, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I think he's been poorly written this season so far. No personality at all



So about the timewar...
Eccleston: Huge timewar angst!
Tennent: Oh the angst! 
Smith: Angsty Angst
Capaldi: Rather not talk about it
Bill: okay, wouldnt want you to have to act.


----------



## kabbes (May 7, 2017)

It's interesting how much variety of opinion there can be.

I really enjoyed this episode, and think these last two episodes have been the best Capaldi ones.  His character finally -- _finally_ -- seems to have some actual substance to it.  They finally figured out who this Who should be.  Bit late, but better late than never.


----------



## Who PhD (May 7, 2017)

Capaldi has had some great lines in past seasons. 
Clara: "I'm his carer"
Doctor: "yeah, she cares so I don't have to"


----------



## kabbes (May 7, 2017)

One-liners don't make for a substantial character, though.  Otherwise Jimmy Carr would be worth watching for more than 2 minutes.


----------



## Who PhD (May 7, 2017)

kabbes said:


> One-liners don't make for a substantial character, though.  Otherwise Jimmy Carr would be worth watching for more than 2 minutes.


I didn't say they did.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 7, 2017)

I'm just tired of every threat or monster turning out to have an excuse. I demand a pure evil baddie for once.


----------



## Who PhD (May 7, 2017)

I'm really hoping the vault isn't going to be a massive anti climax.


----------



## spanglechick (May 7, 2017)

There has been a lot of stuff eating stuff.  The woodlice and microbots... big fish... references to vegetarianism (fish flavoured algae, and the doctor saying that evil depends on which end of the fork you're coming from...). Could be a theme, or possibly just laziness...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2017)

kabbes said:


> It's interesting how much variety of opinion there can be.
> 
> I really enjoyed this episode, and think these last two episodes have been the best Capaldi ones.  His character finally -- _finally_ -- seems to have some actual substance to it.  They finally figured out who this Who should be.  Bit late, but better late than never.


I'd no problem with capaldi in this ep (or privious tbf) nor bill, haunted house stuff just doesn't grab me


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2017)

S☼I said:


> I'm just tired of every threat or monster turning out to have an excuse. I demand a pure evil baddie for once.


daleks at some point. Can't beat a good dose of fascist pepperpots


----------



## ginger_syn (May 7, 2017)

S☼I said:


> I'm just tired of every threat or monster turning out to have an excuse. I demand a pure evil baddie for once.


 wouldn't that be a bit one dimensional and just a bit boring and unsatisfactory.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> There has been a lot of stuff eating stuff.  The woodlice and microbots... big fish... references to vegetarianism (fish flavoured algae, and the doctor saying that evil depends on which end of the fork you're coming from...). Could be a theme, or possibly just laziness...


the puddles et people, sort of


----------



## 8den (May 7, 2017)

I liked it. Solid. Middle of the road, but a coherent-ish plot, good scares, nothing fancy but nothing cringeworthy which is where my yardstick is right now.


----------



## kabbes (May 7, 2017)

In retrospect, the plot holes are a little galling.  Didn't really bother me during the watching though.


----------



## ginger_syn (May 8, 2017)

Knock knock  was for me another solidly good episode, it was thrillingly scary for the grandkids and enjoyably creepy for me and David Suchet was excellent as the unrepentantly murderous landlord.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2017)

this is worth a listen:
BBC Radio 6 Music - Stuart Maconie's Freak Zone - Celebrating Delia Derbyshire


----------



## Santino (May 8, 2017)

The more I think about it, the less sense any of the plot makes.


----------



## kabbes (May 8, 2017)

Santino said:


> The more I think about it, the less sense any of the plot makes.


Every 20 years? How did he come to that conclusion?

Why the memory loss? At what point did he flip from child to father?

Who sent him out of the room as a kid and what happened to those people after she turned to wood?

How has he paid the bills?  Why did he not know the prime minister?

How did he learn to train the wood lice?

And the rest of the plot holes too.


----------



## Gromit (May 8, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Every 20 years? How did he come to that conclusion?
> 
> Why the memory loss? At what point did he flip from child to father?
> 
> ...


They found tenancy agreements dated every 20 years. 
Why the interval though was never explained. 

How was he suddenly vanishing?
We saw only one secret door and that was on a different floor.


----------



## spanglechick (May 8, 2017)

How were the five housemates able to be regurgitated, but none of the others?

If high pitched music summons the lice, why did it stop them in the case of the first lad?

Four lice turned the mum's arm to wood.  And presumably gave them enough energy to breed.   Why did the increasing numbers of lice never consume her properly? 

Related - how does a small boy learn to tame carnivorous alien woodlice?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> not the greatest for me. The house eating people was cool enough but it didn't really get any zing going. Not actively shit but meh.


Yeah, not the greatest tale (nor internally logical). But at least it _was_ a tale, and not shouty-bang-flash. And I'm glad they've finally _got_ Capaldi's Doctor. I'm with those who like the uni lecturer shtick. I'm also liking Bill calling him Grandad/Grandfather, and the reference to him leaving his charge on a lonely planet (or whatever the line was). It's nice they put in stuff to keep the old nerds happy.


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> If high pitched music summons the lice, why did it stop them in the case of the first lad?


The record had stuck, so the tune wasn't finished, delaying the inevitable. Maigret did explain that. 

Your other points, and many more, stand, though.


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2017)

Gromit said:


> They found tenancy agreements dated every 20 years.
> Why the interval though was never explained.


Especially since it all began 70 years ago. Why not 60 or 80?


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## DotCommunist (May 8, 2017)

see it should have been actual dryads, but in Who style these dryads are actually an ancient alien race thats been here since before the stone age and our folk memory calls/remembers them as dryads. That would have satisfied me more than space nits


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2017)

Gromit said:


> How was he suddenly vanishing?
> We saw only one secret door and that was on a different floor.


And a lift.


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## kabbes (May 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> The record had stuck, so the tune wasn't finished, delaying the inevitable. Maigret did explain that.


So the space lice don't just respond to the high pitched noise, as claimed, but actual _melody_?


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## DotCommunist (May 8, 2017)

tuning forks don't play a melody, they just do one sustained note.


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## kabbes (May 8, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> tuning forks don't play a melody, they just do one sustained note.


Exactly.  So why would the lice need a song to be finished in order to finish consuming somebody?


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## lazythursday (May 8, 2017)

Really enjoyed this until the last ten minutes where it became incomprehensible. Felt like some really sloppy editing had removed some crucial points to the plot. Ignoring that though, completely agree that Capaldi's doctor is finally really working, the show is at its best for years, the university setting has made it feel more grounded in reality and the vault arc intriguing without being needlessly over complex. It feels more RTD than Moffat so far this series, which makes me wonder if he let an assistant do most of the work while he fucked up Sherlock instead.


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> tuning forks don't play a melody, they just do one sustained note.


Which eventually dies out. The sustain is not as long as a record repeating for a day or so.


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## Vintage Paw (May 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Maigret


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## danny la rouge (May 8, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


>


I know my pop culture.


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## Who PhD (May 8, 2017)

wooden acting though


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## ginger_syn (May 8, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Exactly.  So why would the lice need a song to be finished in order to finish consuming somebody?


They didn't, the discordant repetition halted the process because it distracted the bugs,it was explained by the landlord  just before he lifted the needle from the record.


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## kabbes (May 9, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> They didn't, the discordant repetition halted the process because it distracted the bugs,it was explained by the landlord  just before he lifted the needle from the record.


He certainly knew a lot about who they ate, when and why for somebody that had only gone through it four times in 70 years.


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## Gromit (May 9, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> wooden acting though


Did the lousy acting bug you?


----------



## Who PhD (May 9, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Did the lousy acting bug you?


who'd notice?


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## DotCommunist (May 9, 2017)

someones put 30 hours of big finish audiobooks online. I've listened to a few of these way back. Seem to recall decent quality. Mgann is the doc whose stories I will be listening to, although his TV special was fatally flawed (the master was just waaaaay off) he had potential and apparently does the voice work as well

30 Hours of Doctor Who Audio Dramas Now Free to Stream Online |  Open Culture


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## Who PhD (May 9, 2017)

That's a Spotify link, they've had some big finish for a while. 

BF is really good, unfortunately also really dear


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## ginger_syn (May 9, 2017)

kabbes said:


> He certainly knew a lot about who they ate, when and why for somebody that had only gone through it four times in 70 years.


I would imagine he worked it out after the first time it happened, perhaps the bugs  communicate with him somehow.


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## Who PhD (May 9, 2017)

Just rewatched Trial of a Timelord.

Fucking solid fried gold and I will fight with knives anyone who disagrees.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 9, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Just rewatched Trial of a Timelord.
> 
> Fucking solid fried gold and I will fight with knives anyone who disagrees.


Um. Wut?

It's all over the place. I can't bare the Mel episodes. Weirdest introduction of an assistant.


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## Who PhD (May 9, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Um. Wut?
> 
> It's all over the place. I can't bare the Mel episodes. Weirdest introduction of an assistant.


...is the wrong answer!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 9, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> ...is the wrong answer!



Sorry, I sort of love it in a cluster fuck of concept sort of way, almost humourous. Jeez I remember at the time it just dragged on forever just getting worse and worse. Then by the end I couldn't give a shit about who was who and what the fuck went on. It was more interesting that the bisto mum was in it.

I watched it all over against a few years ago when it came out on DVD, and felt the same, but did enjoy all the dvd documentaries.

It's not a high point though.


----------



## Who PhD (May 9, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Sorry, I sort of love it in a cluster fuck of concept sort of way, almost humourous. Jeez I remember at the time it just dragged on forever just getting worse and worse. Then by the end I couldn't give a shit about who was who and what the fuck went on. It was more interesting that the bisto mum was in it.
> 
> I watched it all over against a few years ago when it came out on DVD, and felt the same, but did enjoy all the dvd documentaries.
> 
> It's not a high point though.


well, you like it or you don't. 

But it's not remotely confusing. The plot is quite straightforward, including within each of the sub stories.


----------



## Chz (May 10, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> someones put 30 hours of big finish audiobooks online. I've listened to a few of these way back. Seem to recall decent quality. Mgann is the doc whose stories I will be listening to, although his TV special was fatally flawed (the master was just waaaaay off) he had potential and apparently does the voice work as well
> 
> 30 Hours of Doctor Who Audio Dramas Now Free to Stream Online |  Open Culture


My memory is a bit hazy, but Spare Parts, Jubilee, and Davros are particularly good.


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## Who PhD (May 10, 2017)

Chz said:


> My memory is a bit hazy, but Spare Parts, Jubilee, and Davros are particularly good.


Spare Parts and Jubilee are excellent, the latter being the inspiration for the Ecclescake episode, Dalek


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## Who PhD (May 13, 2017)

apparently we get to see inside the vault tonight.

wherein we find Dave Prowse


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## Who PhD (May 13, 2017)

That was blinding


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## DotCommunist (May 13, 2017)

a space one, with the doctor as joe hill and the ep having an anticapitalist theme, yes.  Thats good


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## Santino (May 13, 2017)

The blue guy dies, as usual.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 14, 2017)

Decent episode. Would have been even better if the thing that was happening with the suits was ransomeware


----------



## ginger_syn (May 14, 2017)

best one so far for me so far, love a base in peril episode and both pearl mackie and Matt Lucas were excellent, I like nardoles development as a character,  all in all I'm a happy who bunny at the moment.


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## DotCommunist (May 14, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> best one so far for me so far, love a base in peril episode and both pearl mackie and Matt Lucas were excellent, I like nardoles development as a character,  all in all I'm a happy who bunny at the moment.


funny nardole no, cos he wasn't. Stern nardole weirdly worked. I'd say this and the frost fair are so far contenders for episode of the series


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 14, 2017)

Enjoyed this one a lot, although the cliff hanger was mildly over dramatic


----------



## kabbes (May 14, 2017)

S☼I said:


> I'm just tired of every threat or monster turning out to have an excuse. I demand a pure evil baddie for once.


Well, you got your pure evil baddie this week.  Capitalism.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 20, 2017)




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## danny la rouge (May 20, 2017)

Sorry, that was shit.


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## Who PhD (May 20, 2017)

Not really sure what to make of that.

Nor why the simulation doctor was blind. How would the invaders know that the dr had lost his sight?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 20, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Sorry, that was shit.


comedy pope tho


----------



## binka (May 20, 2017)

The holo-Doctor should have twigged something was up when the holo-Tardis wasn't translating all the foreign


----------



## Santino (May 20, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Not really sure what to make of that.
> 
> Nor why the simulation doctor was blind. How would the invaders know that the dr had lost his sight?


The same way they knew everything else?


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 20, 2017)

I liked it 

Got a Steins;Gate vibe to it with the Cern stuff  Some proper illuminati conspiraloon stuff going on until the reveal it was all the goonie monsters doing it.


----------



## spanglechick (May 21, 2017)

I need to watch it again.  I'm not sure I followed it.


----------



## spanglechick (May 21, 2017)

Tho, tbf, I was intensively browsing eBay at the same time, which didn't help.


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## ginger_syn (May 21, 2017)

This series is just getting better as it goes along,I enjoyed the slow burn of this one and badass nardole made me smile and it will be interesting to see where the storyline goes from here, although I must say the grandson found it a bit dull at times but still liked it overall.


----------



## Gromit (May 21, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Not really sure what to make of that.
> 
> Nor why the simulation doctor was blind. How would the invaders know that the dr had lost his sight?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2017)

it was decent enough for a buit of running around and the bantz. However it made little sense and was pointlessly complex, what with the whole simulation thing. 100% moffat in short. Bring on the chin-balls


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## Santino (May 21, 2017)

Why did the bad guys care about whether or not the (simulated) good guys had the Veritas book?


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## Gromit (May 21, 2017)

Santino said:


> Why did the bad guys care about whether or not the (simulated) good guys had the Veritas book?


If it's an exact simulation of the world...

The real world doesn't contain a book explaining that everything is a simulation... so why does the copy of the world contain it?


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## Who PhD (May 21, 2017)

Gromit said:


> If it's an exact simulation of the world...
> 
> The real world doesn't contain a book explaining that everything is a simulation... so why does the copy of the world contain it?


Presumably someone realised they wer epart of the Matrix and wrote a bestseller about it.

I'd like to think it was simulant Jeffrey Archer.


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## DotCommunist (May 21, 2017)

the cardinals accent was like an italian version of Officer Crabtree


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## Gromit (May 21, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Presumably someone realised they wer epart of the Matrix and wrote a bestseller about it.
> 
> I'd like to think it was simulant Jeffrey Archer.


Also if you want to let people know this huge truth... why write it in an obscure language that has to be translated?

I've discovered the secret to world peace. 
You want me to share it with you?
Okay but only via this interpretive dance piece because I'm a cunt who wouldn't want to make it easy for you.


----------



## Who PhD (May 21, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Also if you want to let people know this huge truth... why write it in an obscure language that has to be translated?
> 
> I've discovered the secret to world peace.
> You want me to share it with you?
> Okay but only via this interpretive dance piece because I'm a cunt who wouldn't want to make it easy for you.


It works for Jehovah!


----------



## spanglechick (May 21, 2017)

So, at what point did the story switch over to the matrix version oof the world and characters?  

Thing is this had much more emotional impact when Moffat did the same thing with gangers who were living alongside humans.  This was just a bit low stakes - though on paper it shouldn't be.  Also not sure that suicide would be the only, or even dominant response.


----------



## Who PhD (May 21, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> So, at what point did the story switch over to the matrix version oof the world and characters?
> 
> Thing is this had much more emotional impact when Moffat did the same thing with gangers who were living alongside humans.  This was just a bit low stakes - though on paper it shouldn't be.  Also not sure that suicide would be the only, or even dominant response.


That's where it lost me.

Not telling us felt like a cheap trick.

I don't think the premise was so esoteric that i couldn't follow it. But it's another Moffat turn.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 21, 2017)

Gromit said:


> If it's an exact simulation of the world...
> 
> The real world doesn't contain a book explaining that everything is a simulation... so why does the copy of the world contain it?



Somebody figured out the secret. 1000 years ago. Which suggests the simulation has been running for at least 1000 years, at least subjectively.


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## Gromit (May 21, 2017)

Re The execution. 
When did the doc re-wire it?
It must have been beforehand, if so why bother with that entire priest consultation. 
Why bother swearing before pulling the handle? No one had forced him to. 

It was all rather contrived for no purpose other than to set up the conditions we found the doctor in.


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## Gromit (May 21, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Somebody figured out the secret. 1000 years ago. Which suggests the simulation has been running for at least 1000 years, at least subjectively.


A thousand years ago someone knew enough about computer simulations to spot a random number generator for what it was? Pre-Babbage.  
I think not.


----------



## BigTom (May 21, 2017)

There was a line in the episode about them using the simulations to test the species/planet they were about to invade and something about how they wanted to know if the species could find out they weren't real which I guess was meant to be the explanation as to why the Veritas book existed at all - it is a test.
Aside from the bits with Missy, the whole episode was them in a simulation. 
The simulation ran at least 1,000 years of history but the random number generation (RNG) thing was understood by the doctor in the modern time. The ancient suiciders won't have understood the RNG thing but will have been terrified by finding that it worked for them and the veritas book told them they were not real and were simulated, with the RNG thing being the proof.

stupid episode which made no sense, as DC said, 100% moffat. I can live with plot holes (I liked the landlord episode despite them) but this was just bad.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 21, 2017)

It was just a cheap, lazy twist without a plot. It was basically "and then we woke up". The Alice and Wonderland ending that even primary kids get marked down for. And it wasn't even deployed for any good reason. Here's the script meeting:

- Missy is in a box. 
- How did she get there? 
- Oh, what's that thing that rapey far right douchbags say on the internet? 
- red pill?
-yeah, that. Do that.
- OK. But how would it work?
- oh, just start filming. It'll be fine.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2017)

we know the big bad is going to be missy and the old school cybermen (cybermen are my least liked premier league baddie) anyway so in all...

I read somewhere that Moffat has a bit of an obsession with the RCC, I don't know if that is true but in this case it was purely to be a bit da vinci code and have a comedy pope moment. Perhaps next week will be a history one where they travel back to see uncle mo (pbuh).


----------



## Gromit (May 21, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> It was just a cheap, lazy twist without a plot. It was basically "and then we woke up". The Alice and Wonderland ending that even primary kids get marked down for. And it wasn't even deployed for any good reason. Here's the script meeting:
> 
> - Missy is in a box.
> - How did she get there?
> ...


I remember being 14. Running out of time. It was all a dream. Wow how clever am I? Genius. No one has ever come up with anything as clever. 

Teacher drops the bomb that it's the oldest cheat in the world.


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## danny la rouge (May 21, 2017)

It's a shame because this series had until that point been far better. 

Never mind. Maybe next week will pick up again.


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## ginger_syn (May 21, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> So, at what point did the story switch over to the matrix version oof the world and characters?
> 
> Thing is this had much more emotional impact when Moffat did the same thing with gangers who were living alongside humans.  This was just a bit low stakes - though on paper it shouldn't be.  Also not sure that suicide would be the only, or even dominant response.


It started when the doctor opened the extremis email,  you can see a burst of static as the recording starts to play.


----------



## Who PhD (May 21, 2017)

Good job the episode wasn't called extremity, otherwise it'd be based on that other kind of email we all get


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## kabbes (May 22, 2017)

The crowning moment of bollocks is that isn't even how an RNG works.  The seed for the RNG depends on all the initial conditions, which would include things like the individual choosing the next random number and the nth decimal places of the system clock when the RNG is picked, which would be different for each individual picking it.  When Grand Theft Auto has its characters do something semi-randomised, you don't think every character in the game always picks the same random number, do you?


----------



## Santino (May 22, 2017)

Among the other plot flaws, I don't mind at all that 'it was all a dream'. That's a rubbish get out when you've tangled yourself in other narrative difficulties, but not when the whole premise of a story is that the whole world might be a dream.


----------



## Gromit (May 22, 2017)

kabbes said:


> The crowning moment of bollocks is that isn't even how an RNG works.  The seed for the RNG depends on all the initial conditions, which would include things like the individual choosing the next random number and the nth decimal places of the system clock when the RNG is picked, which would be different for each individual picking it.  When Grand Theft Auto has its characters do something semi-randomised, you don't think every character in the game always picks the same random number, do you?


Also there is a timing issue. To pick exactly the same number you'd have to pick the exact same time. Micro seconds count. That room full of people at CERN should have had people picking the next number and the one after that at the very least (purely because of individual lag) then very definitely one person on their very own (that person who always claps last).


----------



## spanglechick (May 22, 2017)

It's a bloody useless simulation of how humans would react, if it isn't sophisticated enough to allow individual randomised responses.


----------



## ebonics (May 23, 2017)

Granted, I'm practically innumerate, but I had to laugh when the Doctor said "computers aren't good with numbers." Like, I'd think that the one thing you'd say computers were good with would be, you know, numbers


----------



## Who PhD (May 23, 2017)

Does this simulation come with a giant animated paperclip?

"it appears as if you are trying to simulate a planned invasion"


----------



## belboid (May 23, 2017)

I dont understand peoples problems with the last one.  The book was snuck into the AI by real humans, and so was unprepared for by the aliens.  Okay, so they should have been able to fix it relatively simply, but it's a perfectly sound plot device, quite an effective one even.

But then, I am a sucker for well done _Name of the Rose _references, and there were so many, neatly done.  I loved it.


----------



## Who PhD (May 26, 2017)

Where do you get that it was a book that existed in the real world? I thought the veritas was someone in the matrix discovering the truth and printing it, all within the simulation.

Is that air you'r breathing neo?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 26, 2017)

'I know venusian aikido'


----------



## Who PhD (May 26, 2017)

Is that Bessie you're driving, or were you looking at the woman in the red dress?


----------



## BigTom (May 26, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Where do you get that it was a book that existed in the real world? I thought the veritas was someone in the matrix discovering the truth and printing it, all within the simulation.
> 
> Is that air you'r breathing neo?



I remember a line where the doctor says it is there as a test to see if the subjects can work out they are in a simulation. I think it was put there purposefully as a test, ludicrous as that is.


----------



## kabbes (May 26, 2017)

BigTom said:


> I remember a line where the doctor says it is there as a test to see if the subjects can work out they are in a simulation. I think it was put there purposefully as a test, ludicrous as that is.


A test of what, though?  It can't be just generically testy.  And the aliens stop you getting it anyway.  And how does the doctor know who put it there anyway?


----------



## ginger_syn (May 27, 2017)

He worked it out once he read/listened to the translation,maybe there's an explanation in the next part of the story or perhaps Moffat put it in to endlessly torment some fans with the whys and wherefore's of it  all.


----------



## BigTom (May 27, 2017)

kabbes said:


> A test of what, though?  It can't be just generically testy.  And the aliens stop you getting it anyway.  And how does the doctor know who put it there anyway?



I've had this on in the background this morning and I was wrong, what the doctor said was that the simulation exists to test the abilities of species on a planet they want to conquer, especially those that can work out they are in a simulation. He doesn't explain why the book exists.


----------



## Santino (May 27, 2017)

If you buy an off-the-shelf alien civilisation simulation package then the Veritas module comes as standard in order to feed back performance data to the developers.


----------



## Who PhD (May 27, 2017)

Monksanto!

(i thought of that pun at about 8-10pm, and have been trying not to forget it. You better fucking like it)


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 27, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Monksanto!
> 
> (i thought of that pun at about 8-10pm, and have been trying not to forget it. You better fucking like it)



Meh.


----------



## ginger_syn (May 28, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Monksanto!
> 
> (i thought of that pun at about 8-10pm, and have been trying not to forget it. You better fucking like it)


I don't get it


----------



## stuff_it (May 28, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Good job the episode wasn't called extremity, otherwise it'd be based on that other kind of email we all get


Actually I usually get those in mesenger


----------



## Helen Back (May 28, 2017)

At the beginning, what does Penny say after the UN Sec Gen tells them The Doctor is the president of Earth?
"Is it ok if I get a new...?" Sounds like "...a new bar?"


----------



## strung out (May 28, 2017)

An Uber - taxi


----------



## DotCommunist (May 28, 2017)

who will interrupt Bills date next week? the ghost of Jimmy Saville? Angry napolean?

suitably crap leaders of the worlds armies, never change Who. Minus points for no UNIT. Also, lets hope nardole is brown bread


----------



## Gromit (May 28, 2017)

I liked the way they mixed Now into Previous at the start instead of doing the usual What happened last week and now the episode. I thought that was quite clever and it put me into a good mood. 

I'm sure that there were holes to pick in the episode because it was a Moffet after all. But I didn't look for em and just went 'Cool a pyramid' etc. In the places I was supposed to.


----------



## BigTom (May 28, 2017)

Gromit said:


> I liked the way they mixed Now into Previous at the start instead of doing the usual What happened last week and now the episode. I thought that was quite clever and it put me into a good mood.
> 
> I'm sure that there were holes to pick in the episode because it was a Moffet after all. But I didn't look for em and just went 'Cool a pyramid' etc. In the places I was supposed to.



It wasn't so bad, the combination lock was laughable, and how come did the gmo thing kill all life on earth but then not affect the dr and only affect nardole because he has human lung? Also when the doctor left the plant room, the first airlock door was left open so surely when he went through the combination lock door would have infected everything. 
anyway, the episode could have been done without the previous episode quite happily. Perhaps the doctor will use something learnt in the first episode to defeat the monks, or perhaps moffat is just a shit oh-so-clever writer.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 28, 2017)

I quite enjoyed it, it was exciting and rubbish and reminiscent of Baker-era (ahem) tomfoolery.


----------



## Chz (May 28, 2017)

Still aggravated that they go from a space station episode where the writers know quite well how an air lock works to this. Never mind the bollocks of a chemical lab that vents to atmosphere every 30 minutes - I can probably suspend disbelief that far. It's when they push it that little bit _too_ far and then all the other stuff that was barely believable gets the clear light of day shone upon it and looks like the utter bollocks that it is.


----------



## Who PhD (May 28, 2017)

I actually quite liked it. Pacing felt good. The thing with the bacteria was a bit bland, but I'm assuming that was a means to an end and not something more, like Krynoids for example.

I did wonder about the open airlock door though, and the giant non-electronic combination (which he could have read by touch by the looks of it).

Typically convoluted Moffat way of telling a simple story though (pyramid was a bit silly).

Not sure i've ever liked the whole 'president of earth' thing though.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 28, 2017)

Chz said:


> Still aggravated that they go from a space station episode where the writers know quite well how an air lock works to this. Never mind the bollocks of a chemical lab that vents to atmosphere every 30 minutes - I can probably suspend disbelief that far. It's when they push it that little bit _too_ far and then all the other stuff that was barely believable gets the clear light of day shone upon it and looks like the utter bollocks that it is.



That and the Doctor stuck his hands directly into the bacterial sludge when he planted the bomb.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 28, 2017)

i enjoyed that.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 29, 2017)

The most annoying thing was the combination lock.

The Doctor should have imaged it with his glasses and sent the live picture to Bill on her phone so she could tell him what to do. Very sloppy.


----------



## spanglechick (May 29, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> The most annoying thing was the combination lock.
> 
> The Doctor should have imaged it with his glasses and sent the live picture to Bill on her phone so she could tell him what to do. Very sloppy.


Or the scientist could have seen it reflected in his glasses or any other reflective surface (quite a few in a lab...)


----------



## kabbes (May 29, 2017)

Oh my God, the plot holes, shit characters and stupid story just hurt so much.


----------



## Gromit (May 29, 2017)

I wanted to give a thumbs up for diversity. No mention of her height whatsoever. She was a scientist and that was it. Bravo... Cept her delivery of dialogue was painful to hear. Stilted and unnatural.


----------



## Santino (May 29, 2017)

Gromit said:


> I wanted to give a thumbs up for diversity. No mention of her height whatsoever. She was a scientist and that was it. Bravo... Cept her delivery of dialogue was painful to hear. Stilted and unnatural.


Fuck off


----------



## Wilf (May 29, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> who will interrupt Bills date next week? the ghost of Jimmy Saville? Angry napolean?


 Week _after_ it will be Prime Minister Corbyn.


----------



## Gromit (May 30, 2017)

Santino said:


> Fuck off


But it was. She couldn't act for toffee.


----------



## Balbi (May 30, 2017)

Poor Dan from The Thick Of It. I've had a hangover that felt like it dissolved me too.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 30, 2017)

Watched knock knock yesterday and not sure I can be bothered with the rest


----------



## kabbes (May 30, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> Watched knock knock yesterday and not sure I can be bothered with the rest


These last two Moffatt episodes have been just terrible.  Before that, it was going really well.


----------



## belboid (May 30, 2017)

kabbes said:


> These last two Moffatt episodes have been just terrible .


Other opinions are available


----------



## kabbes (May 30, 2017)

belboid said:


> Other opinions are available


I struggle to understand why.  The basic plot points were all just nonsense from start to finish.  Everything that happened that was supposed to be real-world lacked basic understanding as to how those things actually operate.  Characters behaved in utterly irrational and unbelievable two-dimensional ways and with motivations as thin as the wind.  The dialogue was stilted and stupid.  I can't think of a single thing that is actually positive across the two episodes.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 30, 2017)

Oof.

When's the new Doctor and show runner coming in?


----------



## belboid (May 30, 2017)

kabbes said:


> I struggle to understand why.  The basic plot points were all just nonsense from start to finish.  Everything that happened that was supposed to be real-world lacked basic understanding as to how those things actually operate.  Characters behaved in utterly irrational and unbelievable two-dimensional ways and with motivations as thin as the wind.  The dialogue was stilted and stupid.  I can't think of a single thing that is actually positive across the two episodes.


I disagree with most of that. Yes, there were a couple of plot holes only slightly smaller than Birmingham, but the basic plots were solid, I really liked the misdirection with the pyramid, I can't remember them doing such a thing before. 'Twas cute. Characters behaved plausibly enough, and the baddies were good. Not the best episodes in the series, but still good enough.


----------



## kabbes (May 30, 2017)

belboid said:


> I really liked the misdirection with the pyramid, I can't remember them doing such a thing before.


You mean the bit where the armies of China, Russia and the US were all sitting around a field waiting to get angry with each other?


----------



## belboid (May 30, 2017)

kabbes said:


> You mean the bit where the armies of China, Russia and the US were all sitting around a field waiting to get angry with each other?


That's classic Who, that is. Woefully underfunded army action.


----------



## ginger_syn (May 30, 2017)

That was a  solid episode especially as it's midsection of a longer storyline,   liked the mix of then and now at the start and also liked the misdirection of the pyramid turning up in an area of military tension compared to the rather mundane start of the end of the world. I found the acting was well done and not at all wooden, also didn't have a problem with the 3 armies lurking about watching what the others were doing, as this is what I imagine north  and south Korea doing across the dmz.the eldest granddaughter enjoyed it and she thought it was better than extremis


----------



## Sea Star (May 30, 2017)

kabbes said:


> I struggle to understand why.  The basic plot points were all just nonsense from start to finish.  Everything that happened that was supposed to be real-world lacked basic understanding as to how those things actually operate.  Characters behaved in utterly irrational and unbelievable two-dimensional ways and with motivations as thin as the wind.  The dialogue was stilted and stupid.  I can't think of a single thing that is actually positive across the two episodes.


The whole asking for help through love and not fear in my opinion made no sense and was just bullshit. Especially when the goal post was changed at the end when her asking for help from love of the doctor was acceptable. I assumed they meant love for the corpse-monk alien things. So its just semantics then because normally you fear  losing something you love - so its both - and that's all it was. Now you can all tell me I'm wrong.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 30, 2017)

Gromit said:


> No mention of her height whatsoever.



Until now


----------



## Gromit (May 30, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Until now


In the show you plank.

There must be some kind of Bechdel test for various disabilities. 
I can't think of many movies or shows including someone with dwarfism where their height isn't made mention of in some way shape or form.

I give them a thumbs up for the script doing that. 
A thumbs down for casting a shite actress. She's no Peter Dinklage.


----------



## spanglechick (May 30, 2017)

Who has form for shite acting (Martha!) but as someone who actually teaches acting, I have to say this woman didn't stand out as being bad.  I'd have to rewatch, but usually shit acting leaps out and slaps me round the face.   The script was bobbins, though... but that's not her fault.


----------



## Gromit (May 30, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> Who has form for shite acting (Martha!) but as someone who actually teaches acting, I have to say this woman didn't stand out as being bad.  I'd have to rewatch, but usually shit acting leaps out and slaps me round the face.   The script was bobbins, though... but that's not her fault.


Perhaps it's just her accent then that grates specifically with me or something. 
She sounds so um flat to me.

And yeah Martha was shite too.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 3, 2017)

That could have been better


----------



## rubbershoes (Jun 3, 2017)

Not big enough climax for a two parter


----------



## BigTom (Jun 3, 2017)

rubbershoes said:


> Not big enough climax for a two parter



three parter.
edit: and yes. nothing much of an episode.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 3, 2017)

Using the regeneration like that as a cheap bait and switch was pretty lame. Felt a bit cheated as a viewer.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 3, 2017)

It was, it was cheap. 

And the end...very familiar.

"Hear that....?" (music begins to swell) "...that's PEOPLE!" (Music gets over-loud, Doctor assumes triumphal tone) "...and they're _broadcasting to the world!"_


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 3, 2017)

Fairly sure I'm not the key demographic but by crikey I'm finding this series tough going.


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 3, 2017)

Why put on a fake regen show for Bill? I'm pretty sure Bill doesn't know what a regen looks like or even that it exists.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 4, 2017)

Moffat, Moffat never changes


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 4, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Moffat, Moffat never changes


Not seen the episode yet but the Fallout reference of this post made me both laugh and bow my head in respect 

Plus it's true!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2017)

the day saved by love at the end again, regen tease played for cheap- load of crap. Weak episode


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 4, 2017)

Helen Back said:


> Why put on a fake regen show for Bill? I'm pretty sure Bill doesn't know what a regen looks like or even that it exists.


She doesn't. a couple of episodes back she made an offhand comment about him being injured and 'regenerating' to which he grimaced to camera knowinlgy that she couldn't see.

Now it's all bollocks.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 4, 2017)

If the Dr is fooled by Missy's obvious pretence at redemption...Moffbollocks


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 4, 2017)

Another poor episode, in my opinion.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 4, 2017)

Helen Back said:


> Why put on a fake regen show for Bill? I'm pretty sure Bill doesn't know what a regen looks like or even that it exists.


It wasn't for Bill, it was for us. And it had no point at all. Which is why it was crap.

(If he can regenerate at will, why not regenerate his eyesight? I thought he could only do that sort of thing during regeneration cusp periods?)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2017)

well, he used regen energy to give Davros one last evil rant so who knows anymore


----------



## kabbes (Jun 4, 2017)

I'm sure Moffatt occasionally used to write episodes that weren't the worst kind of utter drivel.

By the way -- the monks needed a whole load of infrastructure and the right human link to get their view of the world into everybody's heads.  And yet they can just make everybody forget about them with a snap of the claws.  But they still needed to run away anyway.  None of it even makes sense within its own logic.

And shouldn't everybody now have in their heads Bill's mum as a kind of ur-goddess, of ultimate love and perfection?


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 4, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> well, he used regen energy to give Davros one last evil rant so who knows anymore


he's like jesus or jeremy corbyn!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2017)

kabbes said:


> I'm sure Moffatt occasionally used to write episodes that weren't the worst kind of utter drivel.


Blink is an all time, all eras classic of an episode


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 4, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Blink is an all time, all eras classic of an episode


He also wrote The Empty Child, which is excellent.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 4, 2017)

If you look at the overall plan of the monks, it really is utter bollocks. 

Why did they need an earth-ending crisis?  All they actually needed was a single human who was desperate, and those are ten a penny. 

Why did they need millions of years of simulation?  In the end, they could apparently predict an event that was the very definition of random and hence unpredictable.  It was nothing to do with simulation.

What happens if the linchpin never has kids?  Something like one in three people in the U.K. don't (from memory).  And Bill is gay, which must reduce the odds further.  Or maybe the linchpin would have been one of those generals who is too old to have any more kids at this point.  So their whole plan falls over after one generation because of something outside their control?

What, in Moffatt's head, was actually going on throughout this story?  Meticulous careful planning that results in the prediction of something unpredictable that then is not the thing anyway that triggers the result (which was actually the Doctor overcoming their real plan), so actually the plan happens because of just one random nobody, and it can all in any case be undone by something outside the monks' control.  And for what, exactly?  What were they getting out of this ruling some backwater planet?

The worst, utter bobbins plot conceivable.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 4, 2017)

Some very good acting from Pearl Mackie I thought, all the more impressive considering the idiotic plot.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 4, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Some very good acting from Pearl Mackie I thought, all the more impressive considering the idiotic plot.


Yeah, I like her.  Although there were times even she couldn't pull it off, on the grounds that it had gone past parody, let alone srs acting.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2017)

you get the impression he sometimes is just thinking about cool shots and weaving a plot around a series of images or something. Which doesn't seem right given we know he can produce the goods, here and on Sherlock


----------



## Gromit (Jun 4, 2017)

So that was the final part of a three parter. 
Did the Monks deserve a three parter?
Quite frankly no. They were no Darleks. 

Part 1 offended me because it was all quite frankly all completely pointless. 
Part 2 I kinda enjoyed despite the plot holes. 
Part 3 Tried to make out the whole Monk thing is a commentary on Project Fear and fake news and throwed in things like 'viral'. It tried to be down with the kids like someone's dad saying Sick Bra! in an attempt to sound cool n with-it. 
It didn't flow, it was drawn out and boring, nonsensical with a deus ex machina ending that was so stupid it drew you out of fantasy. Wtf has an imaginary mum got to do with the price of haddock? 
The silence of the lambs type set piece failed to scare and another example of fragmenting the plot flow. 

The only thing of any value was Pearl Mackie's dramatic acting. Sadly wasted on a crap episode. Better saved for a finale or summat.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 4, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> you get the impression he sometimes is just thinking about cool shots and weaving a plot around a series of images or something. Which doesn't seem right given we know he can produce the goods, here and on Sherlock



Sherlock properly jumped the shark though, thanks to a similar problem with increasingly ludicrous plotting punctuated by overwrought 'character' bits.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 4, 2017)

tbf, Moff didn't actually pen this episode


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 4, 2017)

i bet clara or amy return at th end of the season


----------



## Sea Star (Jun 4, 2017)

kabbes said:


> If you look at the overall plan of the monks, it really is utter bollocks.
> 
> Why did they need an earth-ending crisis?  All they actually needed was a single human who was desperate, and those are ten a penny.
> 
> ...


I'm glad you articulated it. I just felt that it was such bollocks at every level that I just couldn't be bothered to engage with it after about ten minutes - my aspie need for things to properly make sense. After I asked Rich to explain it to me he clearly hadn't bought it either but is too much of a Who fan to admit it. No redeeming features whatsoever.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 4, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> tbf, Moff didn't actually pen this episode


He'd already set the story though.  The damage was done.  It was the least worst of the trilogy, in fact.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 4, 2017)

kabbes said:


> He'd already set the story though.  The damage was done.  It was the least worst of the trilogy, in fact.


True, but the other two parts I felt were promising enough. It's just this was such a rushed lazy ending. So the monks (all five of them) take over the world with their carefully engineered foolproof scheme, and then at the first sign of rough waters they bugger off toes lively!

At least the Daleks would have nuked the site from orbit with a poison bomb!

I blame Jeremy Corbyn


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 4, 2017)

Mackie was indeed great, but Bill's reaction to the Doctor's trick was completely implausible.  He didn't just play a practical joke on her... he drove her to the point of crossing over the line of greatest taboo and made her feel forced to murder someone, and moreover, someone she loves.  That kind of thing fucks someone up for keeps... finding out they didn't actually die doesn't undo the fact that she actually made herself cross that line.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 4, 2017)

It's like Amy and Rory's trauma and grief of their newborn being abducted all being made well by finding they'd known her at school and getting to spend time with her in her forties.   


It's just lazy writing.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 4, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> Mackie was indeed great, but Bill's reaction to the Doctor's trick was completely implausible.  He didn't just play a practical joke on her... he drove her to the point of crossing over the line of greatest taboo and made her feel forced to murder someone, and moreover, someone she loves.  That kind of thing fucks someone up for keeps... finding out they didn't actually die doesn't undo the fact that she actually made herself cross that line.


Yes. the gun thing was desperately fucked up. Especially for a show that's not about resorting to violence to solve problems. Yet that's exactly what this doctor has done, he 'forced' bill to shoot him.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 4, 2017)

Aside from all that, I got the impression Moffat/not Moffat
was sticking it to authoritarian liberals in that scene where the Doctor pretended to be in with the monks,  The Doctor representing captalism and the humans representing barbarism. And they got  somewhat carried away with that hence the crazy plot holes.  being child free I'm on the Kraken so probs need a second opinion. Later on though it did sound more like liberal guardians of truth. Any thoughts? 


SpookyFrank said:


> Some very good acting from Pearl Mackie I thought, all the more impressive considering the idiotic plot.


She's brilliant, and Moffat has at the very least provided her with better lines to work with than previous companions. I'm not finding this series anywhere near as painful as when Amy was on the go, one episode just had her saying "doctor where are you" for about hawf an hoor. Not to mention the fact they should have got a proper working class Invernessian on there with the accent THE DAAALEKS ARRRE CUMEEEEN


 I must be the only one who thinks Moffat is less shit in this series then? And I was really fucked off with him for ages! He'd gotten to rock bottom for me a while back, so anything was an improvement. "Hello sweetie" I mean honestly. But I tend to be more into the flow of the dialogue first and foremost, and given RTD always paid particular attention to that(making sure it was realistic for starters)  he was a big miss for me.


Who PhD said:


> Yes. the gun thing was desperately fucked up. Especially for a show that's not about resorting to violence to solve problems. Yet that's exactly what this doctor has done, he 'forced' bill to shoot him.


The doctor destroyed 2 civilisations to solve problems.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 5, 2017)

diamarzipan said:


> Aside from all that, I got the impression Moffat/not Moffat
> was sticking it to authoritarian liberals in that scene where the Doctor pretended to be in with the monks,  The Doctor representing captalism and the humans representing barbarism. And they got  somewhat carried away with that hence the crazy plot holes.  being child free I'm on the Kraken so probs need a second opinion. Later on though it did sound more like liberal guardians of truth. Any thoughts?
> 
> She's brilliant, and Moffat has at the very least provided her with better lines to work with than previous companions. I'm not finding this series anywhere near as painful as when Amy was on the go, one episode just had her saying "doctor where are you" for about hawf an hoor. Not to mention the fact they should have got a proper working class Invernessian on there with the accent THE DAAALEKS ARRRE CUMEEEEN
> ...


 did he? My PhD has failed me there!


----------



## belboid (Jun 6, 2017)

Finally caught up with this weeks last night. Those first fifteen minutes were excellent (even if it was incredibly similar to the last Sherlock). Right up until the faked regeneration. Which was just utterly stupid. As was pretty much everything that happened afterwards. The whole beginning was just pointless, there was no need for the con, no consequences of note either. And then the All Powerful Monks get knocked out in the silliest, most obvious way possible. Just badly written shit. 

Bill and Missy were good tho, and we nearly got some proper swearing


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jun 7, 2017)

Finally watched it. It was shit. The shit end of a shit three-parter that made no sense. I had hopes for this series but it's all shit. And I still can't stand Missy.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 9, 2017)

A very satisfying episode for me pearl was amazing and nardy made me smile and I've enjoyed the slower pace of the trilogy but will have to see if that's what I still think when I watch all three together, the eldest granddaughter enjoyed it enough to go for a rewatch the next day and I'm looking forward to the next episode.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 10, 2017)

Just to expand a bit on my post,the acting by all involved was excellent, the testing of bill was a bit cruel but I think it was also a punishment for not listening to him,  the music fitted beautifully and while I felt that the departure of the monks,who remind me ever so slightly of the trickster from the Sarah jane adventures, was somewhat rushed I didn't have a problem with how they were defeated, for me the fact that bill accepted the consequences of her choice  and then used her imagination and love for her mother to stay strong enough to break the monks hold on humanity was a nice contrast to the earlier fear and anger that led to her shooting the doctor.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 10, 2017)

We've had epic villains try to conquer the earth. 

* Sociopathic killers the Darleks
* Merciless assimulators the cybermen. 
* Bloodless coup (but only if you ask us nicely first) the Monks. 

Two of these seem worthy of epic multi parters. 
One does not in my opinion. 

Next week a four parter about the evil aliens who plan to rule us through a series of cunning tax loopholes.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 10, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> Just to expand a bit on my post,the acting by all involved was excellent, the testing of bill was a bit cruel but I think it was also a punishment for not listening to him,  the music fitted beautifully and while I felt that the departure of the monks,who remind me ever so slightly of the trickster from the Sarah jane adventures, was somewhat rushed I didn't have a problem with how they were defeated, for me the fact that bill accepted the consequences of her choice  and then used her imagination and love for her mother to stay strong enough to break the monks hold on humanity was a nice contrast to the earlier fear and anger that led to her shooting the doctor.


Well, at least somebody enjoyed it, I suppose.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 10, 2017)

Several someone's in my family at least you can take comfort knowing they will be filming moffat's last episode very soon and then we'll all be in the same boat of not knowing if we will like chibnalls work or not.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 10, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Next week a four parter about the evil aliens who plan to rule us through a series of cunning tax loopholes.



its meant to be fiction, that above is a little too close to reality


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 10, 2017)

Alpha Centauri! 
I guess these buggers go off and help found the federation while the Ice Warriors from Troghton's time stay buried somewhere waiting for a scrap.


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 10, 2017)

It's been a while since I've seen it but isn't the name "Ice Warrriors" just a nickname that one of the scientists gives them in their first story? Kind of like how the Hulk got his name from a random soldier.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jun 10, 2017)

THAT was proper Doctor Who. None of this love will heal the world shit.

I read this week that it's ten years since the episode Blink aired, the introduction of the weeping angels, before they were over-used. Ten years since the last decent Steven Moffat episode.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 11, 2017)

That was a nice little romp with a flavour of ripping yarns and very enjoyable,but then I do like a Gatiss story  also I'm wondering did anyone else notice the golden glow on missy's and the Doctor's faces at the very end.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 11, 2017)

So much better.  An enjoyable little story that had its own perfectly reasonable little internal logic and ended without some deus ex machina or overblown nonsense, but through satisfying personal growth.

This series has been a case of Moffat: terrible, otherwise: pretty good.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 11, 2017)

a solid episode, I like the ice warriors better than I did. I had them filed under strictly b-listers but they made good MOTW


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 11, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> That was a nice little romp with a flavour of ripping yarns and very enjoyable,but then I do like a Gatiss story  also I'm wondering did anyone else notice the golden glow on missy's and the Doctor's faces at the very end.



What was that 'Are you alright?' bit? Has the Doctor started something when he gave himself temporary eyesight a few episodes ago? 

Best episode of a pretty awful series for me.


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 11, 2017)

Alpha Centauri FTW. Totally unexpected blast from the past and with the original actress, too. Bonus.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 11, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> What was that 'Are you alright?' bit? Has the Doctor started something when he gave himself temporary eyesight a few episodes ago?
> 
> Best episode of a pretty awful series for me.


I did think he seemed a bit surprised at the regeneration energy starting  in lie of the land and was covering up when  he asked nardole if it was too much. You could be right that it's a consequence of that action. But i also think missy is up to something, though that could be her picking up that somethings going on with the doctor and hoping she could use it to her advantage.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 11, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> I did think he seemed a bit surprised at the regeneration energy starting  in lie of the land and was covering up when  he asked nardole if it was too much. You could be right that it's a consequence of that action. But i also think missy is up to something, though that could be her picking up that somethings going on with the doctor and hoping she could use it to her advantage.


That action never happened to the Doctor. It was in the simulation.

Why were they at ground control in the beginning? I had thought it would be the end but they talk about the age of the message etc and that is how they end up in the right time and place.

I hope the TARDIS fucking off is explained or I'll make something stupid up like it is scared post Waters of Mars.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 11, 2017)

Lie of the land was not in the simulation only what happened in extremis was the simulation. As for them being in the control room at the start they were on a day out is what the doctor said I was thinking bit of a field trip for bill, and I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an explanation of the tardis's behaviour.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 11, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> Lie of the land was not in the simulation only what happened in extremis was the simulation. As for them being in the control room at the start they were on a day out is what the doctor said I was thinking bit of a field trip for bill, and I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for an explanation of the tardis's behaviour.


 I lumped your post and mwdrwg's together in my head. I was talking about the temporary eyesight thing to read the book he mentioned and that was in Extremis. Sorry for the confusion/mistake.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 11, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Why were they at ground control in the beginning? I had thought it would be the end but they talk about the age of the message etc and that is how they end up in the right time and place.


Oh yes, that was the thing that bothered me.  Isn't there some thing about not being able to go back and interfere with something they have already been witness to?  Seems a bit... paradoxical for Doctor Who.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 11, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> I lumped your post and mwdrwg's together in my head. I was talking about the temporary eyesight thing to read the book he mentioned and that was in Extremis. Sorry for the confusion/mistake.


That makes more senseand is a good point.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 11, 2017)

Helen Back said:


> Alpha Centauri FTW. Totally unexpected blast from the past and with the original actress, too. Bonus.


I didn't notice who the voice was, but if it was her then WIN!

A good fun episode.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 19, 2017)

That also was a good fun episode, even if the monster looked like a dog caught in a christmas tree


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 19, 2017)

Pretty standard Who story but well executed and refreshingly free of glaring plot holes. See, it's not that difficult is it?


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 19, 2017)

At no point did anyone (that we know of) see the Tardis so why the carving of it?
As soon as the Doctor leaves wouldn't they lose the ability to understand each other?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 19, 2017)

enjoyably crap romans


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 19, 2017)

didn't really understand why young robbie williams was hired to play Cornelius


----------



## kabbes (Jun 19, 2017)

I really enjoyed that.  Proper stuff, none of this overblown plot hole nonsense.  Good characters, good pontificating, good low budget fight scene.  Lovely.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 20, 2017)

Excellent episode again really enjoyed it, this series just gets better as it goes along and I'm quite sad it's ending soon.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 20, 2017)

I want Capaldi to be persuaded to do one more series. They did it with the actor who played Clara. Bribe him with money.


----------



## Chz (Jun 20, 2017)

I'm just itching to see the next episode. I've been wanting to see old-school Cybermen for decades. I've always found them way creepier than the more robotic ones that followed.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 24, 2017)

Ooh. I liked that.

(Scenery-chewing aside).


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 24, 2017)

Chz said:


> I'm just itching to see the next episode. I've been wanting to see old-school Cybermen for decades. I've always found them way creepier than the more robotic ones that followed.


Well it's definitely old-school.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 24, 2017)

that was doctor who at its finest. Self referencing stuff by the bucketload- venusian aikido  lol and 'I waited'. I bet i missed loads more.

stolen shots: long tracking shot of spaceship, Star wars. Bill with a big hole in her stomach? Death Becomes Her

A proper sci fi plotline with time dilation in full play as a concept. Missy's pisstaking and then oh hello Simms.

I now theorise that this is early simms master (pre-white clothes and timelock fuckery) who was pootling about in the section of the ship thats in the older time stream

that makes sense if you watch doctor who doesn't it


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 24, 2017)

Exceptional episode. Best in years, for me. For all the reasons dotty says above. Loved all the self-referential stuff, but I've always been partial to that kind of thing. Just really good writing all round, tbh.

Bill's a dream. It's a fucking scandal they're not going to keep her on.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 24, 2017)

Brilliant episode, though will have to do a rewatch as youngest granddaughter was with me and I had to pause it once or twice and I'd like to watch it through in one go. Youngest found it a bit scary but wouldn't let me turn it off.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 24, 2017)

Don't know how i feel about that


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 24, 2017)

Missy for me.


Vintage Paw said:


> Exceptional episode. Best in years, for me. For all the reasons dotty says above. Loved all the self-referential stuff, but I've always been partial to that kind of thing. Just really good writing all round, tbh.
> 
> Bill's a dream. It's a fucking scandal they're not going to keep her on.


Dunno...you either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 24, 2017)

That was brilliant. Barely a moment wasted. And ANOTHER explicit reference to vegetarianism / meat eating.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 24, 2017)

Best one in years!

DotCommunist the tracking shot of the spaceship had a very Red Dwarf rather than Star Wars vibe for me


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 24, 2017)

I think this one will depend on the resolution. 

I'm finding Bill's ambivalence a bit irritating. So many times she finds herself in a really tough situation and it's back to joking and sarcasm. One minute she's been shot, then she wakes up in a horrorspital and then she's friends with the weird ratfaced guy with the odd accent living in his apartment mopping the floors while people are operated on and left in pain. 

It's just utterly bizarre.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 24, 2017)

I love Bill and will fight anyone who doesn't. My fave Who companion ever.

I loved that episode, really good stuff.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 25, 2017)

I really hope the explanation for Missy doesn't prove utter moffballs


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 25, 2017)

Does anyone else agree that the BBC's spoilering of this episode was a very stupid thing to do.

I don't know if it's reflective of a lack of confidence, following falling ratings, in the brand,but they definitely dropped a bollock here.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 25, 2017)

Yes, I wish we hadn't been spoilered for John Simm as the second Mr. ?Razor showed up I was "Oh look it's John Simm" and assumed the character was a long con.

Still, cracking episode. Really genuinely great.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2017)

Anyone who doesn't like spoilers (and I don't in theory, but actually do read them anyway) won't want to look at this. But I'm hoping it's true (and already doing a little dance inside):



Spoiler



Did Doctor Who just hint at a major rumour about the Christmas special?. Ooooh!!!


----------



## Wilf (Jun 25, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Bill's a dream. It's a fucking scandal they're not going to keep her on.


_*What*_?  She's great, she can actually act.


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 25, 2017)

A dark amd empty abandoned Victorian hospital, silent save for somewhere nearby a single synthetic voice repeats one word over and over - "pain...pain... pain..."


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2017)

Helen Back said:


> An dark amd empty abandoned Victorian hospital, silent save for somewhere nearby a single synthetic voice repeats one word over and over - "pain...pain... pain..."


that was dark as fuck tbh, my old dear was going 'I don't think 7 year olds should be watching this' 
i was going 'shhh'. No talking during who


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> Brilliant episode, though will have to do a rewatch as youngest granddaughter was with me and I had to pause it once or twice and I'd like to watch it through in one go. Youngest found it a bit scary but wouldn't let me turn it off.



It was really dark at times, with the whole 'Pain' thing and the volume dial.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2017)

S☼I said:


> I love Bill and will fight anyone who doesn't. My fave Who companion ever.
> 
> I loved that episode, really good stuff.



I'm still totally and completely and utterly in love with Donna, but Bill is right up there.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2017)

Wilf said:


> _*What*_?  She's great, she can actually act.



I read she's going at the end of this season. Could be wrong, of course. Was in a Radio Times or similar piece some weeks ago I think. Can't remember.


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 25, 2017)

Even before Pearl Mackie started it was announced that she'd only do one series and then leave. Because few modern companions leave voluntarily (who would want to walk away from a life of adventure like that?) then it was pretty certain that she would die.

New Who series 10 into 11 looks like being as drastic a change as Old Who 6 into 7 was. New Doctor, new companion(s), new production team, new series format - everything.

And what sort of a name for a girl is 'Bill', anyway? I suppose it reflects her lesbian sexuality and deflects men away from her. After all, what straight would want to call out a man's name in the heat of passion?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2017)

Helen Back said:


> And what sort of a name for a girl is 'Bill', anyway? I suppose it reflects her lesbian sexuality and deflects men away from her. After all, what straight would want to call out a man's name in the heat of passion?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2017)

Helen Back said:


> And what sort of a name for a girl is 'Bill', anyway? I suppose it reflects her lesbian sexuality and deflects men away from her.


I may be taking the bait too easily, but go on then: I know heterosexual women called Charlie, Danny, Gerry, Frankie, Bernie, Phil. Probably others I'm not remembering for the moment. I'm not sure any of them are deflecting men.

I personally think she's called Bill after William Hartnell, who has been referenced in every episode this series, from the photos of Susan on the  Doctor's university office desk, to the cybermen of this episode:cybermen he was fighting when he first regenerated.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 25, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I may be taking the bait too easily, but go on then: I know heterosexual women called Charlie, Danny, Gerry, Frankie, Bernie, Phil. Probably others I'm not remembering for the moment. I'm not sure any of them are deflecting men.
> 
> I personally think she's called Bill after William Hartnell, who has been referenced in every episode this series, from the photos of Susan on the  Doctor's university office desk, to the cybermen of this episode:cybermen he was fighting when he first regenerated.


every episode?

Go on then! Name the references


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> every episode?
> 
> Go on then! Name the references


I'm 52: I can't remember all the episodes. I'd need to watch them again.  But, yes, I think I've spotted a reference in every episode.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 25, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> It was really dark at times, with the whole 'Pain' thing and the volume dial.


i coudln't tell, i thought it was the live audience for Chris Moyles


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 25, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> It was really dark at times, with the whole 'Pain' thing and the volume dial.


I couldn't tell, I thought he was voting brexit.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 25, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> It was really dark at times, with the whole 'Pain' thing and the volume dial.


I couldn't tell, I thought he was watching Foo Fighers at glastonbury


----------



## belboid (Jun 25, 2017)

Wilf said:


> _*What*_?  She's great, she can actually act.


Sadly, she is under the impression that she is the only cast member who can, and tells everyone else how to.  It hasn't made her popular (according to Private Eye)


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2017)

I'm going to leave this here. It's a Scottish Labour former MP, who said on TV on election night after that exit poll that Corbyn should still go.

I'm not screenshotting because the mentions and his replies are a thing of wonder. 

This is Scottish Labour right here.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 25, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> That was brilliant. Barely a moment wasted. And ANOTHER explicit reference to vegetarianism / meat eating.



And more references to the stupid human obsession with gender


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 25, 2017)

Helen Back said:


> And what sort of a name for a girl is 'Bill', anyway? I suppose it reflects her lesbian sexuality and deflects men away from her. After all, what straight would want to call out a man's name in the heat of passion?



Should everything be decided according to the sexual requirements of straight men?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 25, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I think this one will depend on the resolution.
> 
> I'm finding Bill's ambivalence a bit irritating. So many times she finds herself in a really tough situation and it's back to joking and sarcasm. One minute she's been shot, then she wakes up in a horrorspital and then she's friends with the weird ratfaced guy with the odd accent living in his apartment mopping the floors while people are operated on and left in pain.
> 
> It's just utterly bizarre.



She was there for months or years though, so we're seeing her as she slowly gets used to her new environment. I think Pearl Mackie absolutely nailed it tbh.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 26, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I think this one will depend on the resolution.
> 
> I'm finding Bill's ambivalence a bit irritating. So many times she finds herself in a really tough situation and it's back to joking and sarcasm. One minute she's been shot, then she wakes up in a horrorspital and then she's friends with the weird ratfaced guy with the odd accent living in his apartment mopping the floors while people are operated on and left in pain.
> 
> It's just utterly bizarre.


Or its just  normal for some people, humour and sarcasm can get you through some really horrible times as both a support and a defense, it's also better than being a sobbing wreck in a dark corner.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 26, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> It was really dark at times, with the whole 'Pain' thing and the volume dial.


Yes it was, beautifully dark and for me anyway it had a retrospective effect making all of the past cybermen more horrorfyingly disturbing. I watched it again today with eldest granddaughter and it was still brilliant TV,  the expressions on her face going from puzzlement to shocked surprise when simm reveled himself was a joy to watch. Also  his performance without the ' he sounds like uncle from the Doctor's wife episode, is it him, no it's John simms, is it him? yes I'm sure it is, what is he up to, why is he disguised, its definitely him ' stuff going on in my head was much more creepy and disturbing.  I liked it even more on a second viewing and the music  was beautifully done which I also noticed more on the second viewing, I just hope next week's is as good.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 26, 2017)

Truly great episode.  I love Missy.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 26, 2017)

stupid Q for non Who fetishist- how come there is both Missy & the master around at the same time ?


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 26, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> stupid Q for non Who fetishist- how come there is both Missy & the master around at the same time ?



Different crossing timelines. Master is from the past, Missy from now. Like episodes when they have more than one Doctor.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2017)

I liked it when jon hurt cunted off tennant and smith. In fact all the 'many doctors' specials are enhanced by the fact that they all wind each other up badly


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 26, 2017)

Purely a random thought that just popped into my head. What if Doctor Who regenerated into Pearl Mackie. That would be brilliant.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 26, 2017)

Or didn't regenerate at all. The Doctor just dies. The end....

No new Doctor, Chibnall just a decoy/given a new spin-off based on Bill.


----------



## Santino (Jun 26, 2017)

Lazy Llama said:


> Or didn't regenerate at all. The Doctor just dies. The end....
> 
> No new Doctor, Chibnall just a decoy/given a new spin-off based on Bill.


What, like _Burnside_?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 26, 2017)

Santino said:


> What, like _Burnside_?


Exactly like that, with a similar longevity.


----------



## Corax (Jun 26, 2017)

I'm not down with the Pearl love-in.  I don't hate her, but I find her a bit one-dimensional.  She has a limited playbook IMO.


----------



## Chz (Jun 26, 2017)

I did rather enjoy that. They _nailed_ the pathos of the Cybermen perfectly. They should be terrifying because it could be us, stripped of feeling, in unending pain. Not because they're big-assed, butt-kicking robots of doom - because who wouldn't want to be one then?

(from memory)
What about the pain?
That's why we've invented this. - shows why the hell the Cybermen have had handlebars on their heads for 45 years.
It stops the pain?
No, but you won't care about it any more.

I loved that bit. Unfortunately, I didn't turn off the telly before the "Next Week" bit. It looks like it's all going to shit again, after one of the finest episodes in years.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 26, 2017)

Love and humanity will sort out all of the problems - there's no need for science or logic.
I'm really hoping it doesn't go the way of previous peril...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 26, 2017)

The only slightly worrying thing for me is that it all seems to being going gung-ho next week. Has there ever been a great second part following a great first one in new Who?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 26, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> The only slightly worrying thing for me is that it all seems to being going gung-ho next week. Has there ever been a great second part following a great first one in new Who?



The Doctor Dances

But other than, pretty much no. The one with the cybermen being defeated by Danny Pink's bullshit speech was a particularly upsetting waste of a good setup.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 26, 2017)

Chz said:


> (from memory)
> What about the pain?
> That's why we've invented this. - shows why the hell the Cybermen have had handlebars on their heads for 45 years.
> It stops the pain?
> No, but you won't care about it any more.



That would have been so much better if they hadn't spoilered the cybermen showing up. Wasted a perfectly constructed gut-punch of a plot twist for the sake of a thirty second trailer. Ditto Simm's appearance.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 26, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> The only slightly worrying thing for me is that it all seems to being going gung-ho next week. Has there ever been a great second part following a great first one in new Who?


The Satan Pit


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 26, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> The only slightly worrying thing for me is that it all seems to being going gung-ho next week. Has there ever been a great second part following a great first one in new Who?


Both of the Are You My Mummy episodes were great.

I too am apprehensive though, because  I fear a Love Conquers All save for Bill, and remember the nauseatingly sentimental mush of the Flying Cybermen and the Corpses episode.

I'm clinging to hope.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2017)

lets not forget the ghost of danny bringing back the iraqi kid because REDEMPTION FOR THE CHARACTER. I know redemption isn't only an xtian theme but tie it with the doctor-as-jesus episodes and you have to wonder what its like in moffats head


----------



## BigTom (Jun 26, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Both of the Are You My Mummy episodes were great.
> 
> I too am apprehensive though, because  I fear a Love Conquers All save for Bill, and remember the nauseatingly sentimental mush of the Flying Cybermen and the Corpses episode.
> 
> I'm clinging to hope.



This was exactly my thought at the end of the episode - brilliant episode, one of the best and next week should be great but oh god it's going to be Bill's love for the Doctor/humanity that saves the day isn't it.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 26, 2017)

Or missy's love for the doctor.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 26, 2017)

That was all a bit Girl In the Fireplace really.

Moffat likes to recycle his ideas.

Girl in the Fightening Cyberhospital.

I expected the doctor from Hellraiser 2 to float by


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 26, 2017)

Until I just saw a gif of him in the makeup chair, I legit didn't even realise that was Simm in makeup the whole episode. I genuinely thought it was another actor and then cgi shenanigans as he whipped off the mask and they whisked Simm on set for the next bit. It was so incredibly well done.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 27, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> The only slightly worrying thing for me is that it all seems to being going gung-ho next week. Has there ever been a great second part following a great first one in new Who?



Family of Blood


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 27, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> That was all a bit Girl In the Fireplace really.
> 
> Moffat likes to recycle his ideas.
> 
> ...


I didn't get that vibe at all, for me with a hard push maybe a tiny tiny flavour of the girl who waited with a vague hint of silent hill,  and if he did recycle ideas he did a bloody good job of it.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 27, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Until I just saw a gif of him in the makeup chair, I legit didn't even realise that was Simm in makeup the whole episode. I genuinely thought it was another actor and then cgi shenanigans as he whipped off the mask and they whisked Simm on set for the next bit. It was so incredibly well done.


I didn't realise until you just said!  Fair play to all involved.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 27, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Until I just saw a gif of him in the makeup chair, I legit didn't even realise that was Simm in makeup the whole episode. I genuinely thought it was another actor and then cgi shenanigans as he whipped off the mask and they whisked Simm on set for the next bit. It was so incredibly well done.



Wow, I hadn't twigged that at all.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 27, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Until I just saw a gif of him in the makeup chair, I legit didn't even realise that was Simm in makeup the whole episode. I genuinely thought it was another actor and then cgi shenanigans as he whipped off the mask and they whisked Simm on set for the next bit. It was so incredibly well done.


It was a brilliant job if they hadn't done a close  up of his eyes  I don't think I would have known it was him until the  reveal even knowing he was going to appear,  it was a lovely little homage to classic who.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 27, 2017)

.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 27, 2017)

I knew it was someone familiar under there - there was something in the speech and the mouth itself... but despite knowing Simm was due soon, I was enjoying it all too much to put two and two together.   

I just thought it was a well-known actor under a lot of makeup, like rufus hound that time.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 27, 2017)

I seem to remember the last time Simm was revealed as the master, the Jacobi thing, it was some high tech wizardry concealing his identity even to the point where he didn't know who he was till the reveal. This was a Scooby Doo rubber mask homage.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 27, 2017)

So do we think that missy is only playing along to be in a position to undermine the master?

Or did she turn back to full evil faster than Teresa May u-turn?


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 27, 2017)

Simm Master said to her something about being her prime minister, which leads me to think maybe Missy is what became of his wife while he was pretending to be Harold Saxon


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 27, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Simm Master said to her something about being her prime minister, which leads me to think maybe Missy is what became of his wife while he was pretending to be Harold Saxon


?
He was just explaining that he needed a disguise because otherwise Bill would've recognised him as Saxon, surely?


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 27, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> ?
> He was just explaining that he needed a disguise because otherwise Bill would've recognised him as Saxon, surely?


Didn't they fly round the earth really quickly and reverse time, or something, so everyone forgot all that business?


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 27, 2017)

joustmaster said:


> Didn't they fly round the earth really quickly and reverse time, or something, so everyone forgot all that business?


Paradox engine


----------



## Gromit (Jun 27, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> ?
> He was just explaining that he needed a disguise because otherwise Bill would've recognised him as Saxon, surely?


This.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 27, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> ?
> He was just explaining that he needed a disguise because otherwise Bill would've recognised him as Saxon, surely?


He was saying all that to Missy who clearly wouldn't give a toss what Bill thought.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 27, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> He was saying all that to Missy who clearly wouldn't give a toss what Bill thought.


Let's be honest, he said it all to us, to justify the disguise.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 27, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> that was doctor who at its finest. Self referencing stuff by the bucketload- venusian aikido  lol and 'I waited'. I bet i missed loads more.
> 
> stolen shots: long tracking shot of spaceship, Star wars. Bill with a big hole in her stomach? Death Becomes Her
> 
> ...


The Masters timeline doesn't leave much room for that. He's dead after the paradox machine stuff and only resurrected at the beginning of the End of Time. At the end of that one he disappears when the Doctor sends Gallifrey back into the Time War. He was either sent back there later escaping somehow possibly with a nice new Tardis, hung around til Gallifrey reappeared or he'd just run off while everyone was busy. As he mentioned he'd already been prime minister this seems like the only time he had free to visit black holes.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 27, 2017)

joustmaster said:


> Didn't they fly round the earth really quickly and reverse time, or something, so everyone forgot all that business?


He was still prime minister for a while. It only reset to when he became the big boss.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 27, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> ?
> He was just explaining that he needed a disguise because otherwise Bill would've recognised him as Saxon, surely?


Do people remember all that? I didn't realise. They should be less surprised by stuff then.

(I hated all that. It was shit).


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 27, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Simm Master said to her something about being her prime minister, which leads me to think maybe Missy is what became of his wife while he was pretending to be Harold Saxon


You should try watching some Doctor Who sometime.


----------



## Chz (Jun 27, 2017)

Favourite fan theory I've heard:
Simm isn't from Missy's past. She regenerates into Derek Jacobi when it's all over and done.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 27, 2017)

Chz said:


> Favourite fan theory I've heard:
> Simm isn't from Missy's past. She regenerates into Derek Jacobi when it's all over and done.


The actor?!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 27, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> The Masters timeline doesn't leave much room for that


but surely, like all the 'missing adventure' books in Who show that time travellers might have enourmously long and even hidden timelines. I could spend 10 years on planet exarg and still be back two seconds after I'd just left you. But your other reasons do make me doubt my theory. We shall see


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 27, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> but surely, like all the 'missing adventure' books in Who show that time travellers might have enourmously long and even hidden timelines. I could spend 10 years on planet exarg and still be back two seconds after I'd just left you. But your other reasons do make me doubt my theory. We shall see


Aye. I did think that. The Master was only able to travel between Earth and the end of the universe with about 18 months give for the only time not accounted for unless he had a way of getting around in addition to the Tardis.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 27, 2017)

Chz said:


> Favourite fan theory I've heard:
> Simm isn't from Missy's past. She regenerates into Derek Jacobi when it's all over and done.



There is an upcoming War Master series of audios coming out featuring Jacobi's Master in the Time War. On screen it is implied that he had grown from a child to an old man as a human only being evil looking like Jacobi for a few minutes. This could mean the chameleon arch (thing that turned him human) gave him false memories and he'd only been human a short while or it turned an aging Jacobi lookalike Time Lord into a human child. This sort of makes it a possibility however Simm's Master made it pretty clear she was his future. Unless Jacobi was not the first in the Master's new regeneration cycle no one regenerated into him.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 27, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> You should try watching some Doctor Who sometime.


bada boom!


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 27, 2017)

Chz said:


> Favourite fan theory I've heard:
> Simm isn't from Missy's past. She regenerates into Derek Jacobi when it's all over and done.


Interesting, they'd have to explain how she put herself into the fob watch and how that ended up with Jacobi, but it would be a very moffat thing to do


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 27, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Scooby Doo rubber mask homage.



This phrase has a lovely cadence to it, well done.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 27, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Interesting, they'd have to explain how she put herself into the fob watch and how that ended up with Jacobi, but it would be a very moffat thing to do


Not really. If a species changing device can't switch the apparent age and gender of  a user it ain't worth shit.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 27, 2017)

I had a dream I was snogging Pearl Mackie last night. 
No, it's not relevant to the thread but I thought you should know that Dream Pearl Mackie is a very good kisser


----------



## Sea Star (Jun 27, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> This phrase has a lovely cadence to it, well done.


It's a Fall song isn't it?


----------



## belboid (Jun 27, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> It was a brilliant job if they hadn't done a close  up of his eyes  I don't think I would have known it was him until the  reveal even knowing he was going to appear,  it was a lovely little homage to classic who.


having just watched it again, there's the bit where he says "Very fast bottom" and it is just blatantly him.  Once you know it is.

I take it we are meant to assume The Master somehow stopped the original crew members returning immediately. Otherwise, what did?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 27, 2017)

the event horizon? Although its possible the master fucked with something to make the ship get caught like that


----------



## Gromit (Jun 27, 2017)

Ive just spotted a huge plot hole but I'm not going to spoil it but worrying about it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 27, 2017)

belboid said:


> I take it we are meant to assume The Master somehow stopped the original crew members returning immediately. Otherwise, what did?


Time. The Master (as we now know) and the Doctor both explained that.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 27, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Time. The Master (as we now know) and the Doctor both explained that.


And yet they detected Bill, walked to the lift, operated the lift and arrived in minutes rather than years from the point of arrival and detection to collect her body.


----------



## Santino (Jun 27, 2017)

Gromit said:


> And yet they detected Bill, walked to the lift, operated the lift and arrived in minutes rather than years from the point of arrival and detection to collect her body.


You've got things the wrong way around.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 27, 2017)

Gromit said:


> And yet they detected Bill, walked to the lift


Going from the top to the bottom isn't the problem: going from the bottom to the to is.

I'm not sure what you mean by "arrived in minutes rather than years from the point of arrival and detection to collect her body".

We know that what took a long time (months? Years?) for Bill was only minutes for them.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 27, 2017)

Santino said:


> You've got things the wrong way around.


Nope. Slow at the blackhole top. Fast at the bottom. 

Relative to the top going up one level should take months. 
For this not to happen the lifts would have to not be subject to time or move so fast that they'd be mush on the floor.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 27, 2017)

Gromit said:


> they'd be mush on the floor.


_They need to be strong._


----------



## BigTom (Jun 27, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Nope. Slow at the blackhole top. Fast at the bottom.
> 
> Relative to the top going up one level should take months.
> For this not to happen the lifts would have to not be subject to time or move so fast that they'd be mush on the floor.



months near the blackhole, minutes away from it.
In the lifts the time dilation would ease as you went away from the blackhole so (making up numbers) if it took 6 months in top-time for the proto-cybermen to go get Bill and come back, it took the proto-cyberman 3 months, Bill 1.5months and the Doctor/Missy/Nardole minutes. 
I think anyway the time dilation for someone moving back and forth between the two spaces would be half of what the slower time line experiences.

That all works I think, but there must be some reason why the other people don't just get the lifts to escape their horrible environment. There is some dialogue between the Master and Bill about Bill not being told where the lifts are or how to get back up so perhaps the master has kept this knowledge to himself. I bet it won't get explained but I think this is the the best explanation, that the master held all the original people and the knowledge was lost as the generations passed, except to the master. Or simple physical control over the space.


----------



## gosub (Jun 27, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Ive just spotted a huge plot hole but I'm not going to spoil it but worrying about it.



the tardis is at the top of ship, they are at the bottom...?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 27, 2017)

Also why were the cybermen looking for human life signs if they were Mondasian, not human?


----------



## Santino (Jun 27, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Also why were the cybermen looking for human life signs if they were Mondasian, not human?


What's Mondasian for 'human'?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 27, 2017)

Santino said:


> What's Mondasian for 'human'?



Whatever it is, Bill ain't it.


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 27, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Also why were the cybermen looking for human life signs if they were Mondasian, not human?


Because Mondas was Earth's 'twin' planet and therefore had humanoids much the same as Earth?


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 27, 2017)

lazythursday said:


> Because Mondas was Earth's 'twin' planet and therefore had humanoids much the same as Earth?


All indigenous life forms are pretty much identical including animals, plants and silurians.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2017)

I recon I could chin a cyberman if I hada fistfull of gold sovvies on


----------



## Balbi (Jun 29, 2017)

Caught up with it last night 

That got dark, quickly


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 29, 2017)

BigTom said:


> months near the blackhole, minutes away from it.
> In the lifts the time dilation would ease as you went away from the blackhole so (making up numbers) if it took 6 months in top-time for the proto-cybermen to go get Bill and come back, it took the proto-cyberman 3 months, Bill 1.5months and the Doctor/Missy/Nardole minutes.
> I think anyway the time dilation for someone moving back and forth between the two spaces would be half of what the slower time line experiences.
> 
> That all works I think, but there must be some reason why the other people don't just get the lifts to escape their horrible environment. There is some dialogue between the Master and Bill about Bill not being told where the lifts are or how to get back up so perhaps the master has kept this knowledge to himself. I bet it won't get explained but I think this is the the best explanation, that the master held all the original people and the knowledge was lost as the generations passed, except to the master. Or simple physical control over the space.


Logistics. 6 weeks would require alot of food and water. 

Also I haven't rewatched but Bill was told to wait. A message from the Doctor implanted in her subconscious. How powerful was that shit? People in Doctor Who can hypnotise people to murder. Arsehole mind raped her all the way to the operating table. Egotistical fuck. What purpose did the message even serve? A simple message saying he knew she was alive would of been enough to make her aware she wasn't abandoned and give her the option to escape if she wanted. If you've been tutoring her for months and taking her on trips through time and space and still don't trust her to act sensibly without a stupid instruction given in ignorance of the situation she'd be facing leave her the fuck at home.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jun 29, 2017)

belboid said:


> Sadly, she is under the impression that she is the only cast member who can, and tells everyone else how to.  It hasn't made her popular (according to Private Eye)



Can you remember what it said?


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 30, 2017)

BigTom said:


> months near the blackhole, minutes away from it.
> In the lifts the time dilation would ease as you went away from the blackhole so (making up numbers) if it took 6 months in top-time for the proto-cybermen to go get Bill and come back, it took the proto-cyberman 3 months, Bill 1.5months and the Doctor/Missy/Nardole minutes.
> I think anyway the time dilation for someone moving back and forth between the two spaces would be half of what the slower time line experiences.
> 
> That all works I think, but there must be some reason why the other people don't just get the lifts to escape their horrible environment. There is some dialogue between the Master and Bill about Bill not being told where the lifts are or how to get back up so perhaps the master has kept this knowledge to himself. I bet it won't get explained but I think this is the the best explanation, that the master held all the original people and the knowledge was lost as the generations passed, except to the master. Or simple physical control over the space.


Or perhaps the lift journey would only take months for the people left behind not those making the journey. If you observed the lift from a stationary position on any one of the floors as it passed you it would appear to be moving at its  normal speed. From the bottom as it rises the lift would appear to decelerate and from the top accelerate but for someone on the lift it would rise steadily. It maybe easier to visualise walking. If a cyberman was walking up the ship with magnetic boots from the bottom to the top of the ship  it would take from their perspective the same amount of time to take each step. For them the journey would take the same length of time as if there were no time dilation. They set of at four miles an hours it would take them 100 hours (they don't need to stop for food or sleep they're cybermen) Blue guy would see them walk incredibly fast getting slower as they got closer to him taking the last few steps at normal walking pace. John Simm would see them start off at normal pace getting slower and slower as they get further away.  The sensors the blue guy uses should see it this way rather than, irrc, the steady pace shown. Much like the masters eyebrow watching screen would show the lift rise slowly over weeks or whatever if the doors were open.


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2017)

PursuedByBears said:


> Can you remember what it said?


I'll try and dig it out and be more precise, but it was basically just that, no specific juicy details.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 30, 2017)

BigTom said:


> In the lifts the time dilation would ease as you went away from the blackhole so (making up numbers) if it took 6 months in top-time for the proto-cybermen to go get Bill and come back, it took the proto-cyberman 3 months, Bill 1.5months and the Doctor/Missy/Nardole minutes.


This is the bit I take issue with. For Bill and the proto-cybermen it took exactly how long the journey would take normally. They would pass each floor at what seemed a perfectly normal speed for them. If it travels at aconstant 4000 miles an hour (I plucked that ridiculous speec out of the air) it would take 6 minutes. It would leave Simm and arrive at the Doctor at this speed measured from their respective frames of reference but Simm would see it slow to around 1/133000 (based on 2 days equalling a thousand years) of this by the time it reached the top while for the Doctor it would appear to be travelling at 560,000,000 miles per hour when it reached the bottom. Bill would experience a 6 minute ride. The Proto cybermen two 6 minute rides.


----------



## belboid (Jul 1, 2017)

Okay, about to settle down...

Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)
Please don't let love save the day (again)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2017)

don't fucking jinx it


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 1, 2017)

I was just coming to say enjoy these last few moments before everything good, exciting or interesting from last week is shit on.


----------



## belboid (Jul 1, 2017)

Erection joke!!!!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 1, 2017)

Eh?


----------



## 8115 (Jul 1, 2017)

Spare my ignorance but who was that?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 1, 2017)

8115 said:


> Spare my ignorance but who was that?



The First Doctor. (William Hartnell edition)

The actor is David Bradley, who played Hartnell in the wonderful An Adventure in Space and Time


----------



## belboid (Jul 1, 2017)

The lass from the first episode. Or did you mean the Hartnell character?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 1, 2017)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The First Doctor. (William Hartnell edition)


Yes. That's awesome. Hope they don't fuck that up.

Like they did with this sprawling mess.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 1, 2017)

That was a boring episode. I was on my phone more than off.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 1, 2017)

The whole 'which one of us is going to stay, will it be the woman who thinks her life is over anyway after being turned into a monster'?  Hmmm, tricky.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2017)

saved by the tears of a companion 

jellybabies and other in gags

some good master/missy quippery. 

enjoyed overall even if the melodrama cow was milked a bit (again) but its still worth it.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 1, 2017)

8115 said:


> Spare my ignorance but who was that?


David Bradley; the guy who played William Hartnell in An Adventure in Time and Space, playing The Doctor as played by William Hartnell. Apparently the Christmas special will be Capaldi's perspective of the Day of the Doctor saving Gallifrey shenanigans.

As for the episode I'll put it in the not shit category. It went downhill after the explosion. I didn't realise that was the end of the main plot until the credits came up. Each episode of the series seemed to have added an element to the story. A plausible reason for Bill keeping her personality as well. Serious fan service keeping other Cyber origin stories canon and settling fan arguments with the parallel development stuff. Enjoyed it overall.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 1, 2017)

8115 said:


> That was a boring episode. I was on my phone more than off.



Some day - and that day is soon - all of human experience will be judged this way.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 1, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> saved by the tears of a companion
> 
> jellybabies and other in gags
> 
> ...


It was just the water in the tears conducting the regeneration energy making it visible first.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 1, 2017)

Loved it, haven't felt this sad about a doctor leaving since Pertwee, I'll  probably say more about the episode later but for now my heart hurts.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 1, 2017)

So, does this mean David Bradley is the new (old) doc or, more likely, just involved in the xmas special?


----------



## T & P (Jul 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> So, does this mean David Bradley is the new (old) doc or, more likely, just involved in the xmas special?


I reckon the latter, but that's just pure speculation.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 1, 2017)

T & P said:


> I reckon the latter, but that's just pure speculation.


Yes, given that the original doc must have had some kind of unambiguous death circa 1966 or whatever. So this was just some kind of side trip for him.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Yes, given that the original doc must have had some kind of unambiguous death circa 1966 or whatever. So this was just some kind of side trip for him.


He met the next two Doctors (as himself), and then the next four Doctors (played by someone else).

When I saw how well Bradley played the First, I hoped they'd do this. But I'm a little alarmed it's being done by Moffat. I hope he does it like part one of this Toby* rather than part two.




(*my daughter calls two-parters "Tobys", short for Toby Continued).


----------



## Gromit (Jul 1, 2017)

Awful awful writing. 

Awful. 

There's not enough awfuls to cover how awful. 

Truly awful.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2017)

if that truly is the exit of Bill then it was quite good I thought. Better than Clara's exit for one and miles better than Amy Pond or Peris' ends.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 1, 2017)

The First Doctor regenerated at the end of The Tenth Planet, the first Cybermen story, which was set at the South Pole with the Doctor regenerating on the floor of the Tardis.

The snowy landscapes at the start and end of this double episode tie in with that.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 1, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> He met the next two Doctors (as himself), and then the next four Doctors (played by someone else).
> 
> When I saw how well Bradley played the First, I hoped they'd do this. But I'm a little alarmed it's being done by Moffat. I hope he does it like part one of this Toby* rather than part two.
> 
> ...


I remember the 4 docs thing - something to do with rassillon? - but hadn't remembered that I remembered the 3 docs prog (but now do ).


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 1, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> if that truly is the exit of Bill then it was quite good I thought. Better than Clara's exit for one and miles better than Amy Pond or Peris' ends.


It was Clara's exit.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 1, 2017)

Lazy Llama said:


> The First Doctor regenerated at the end of The Tenth Planet, the first Cybermen story, which was set at the South Pole with the Doctor regenerating on the floor of the Tardis.
> 
> The snowy landscapes at the start and end of this double episode tie in with that.


 I might not be quite right on the maths here - not sure where/where John Hurt fits in - but was Capaldi the last of the regenerations?  Does the appearance of the original doc allow them to somehow start the clock again?  Essentially, you've got 2 doctors about to cark it in the snow.


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I might not be quite right on the maths here - not sure where/where John Hurt fits in - but was Capaldi the last of the regenerations?  Does the appearance of the original doc allow them to somehow start the clock again?  Essentially, you've got 2 doctors about to cark it in the snow.


I think they already re-started it some time ago


----------



## 8den (Jul 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I remember the 4 docs thing - something to do with rassillon? - but hadn't remembered that I remembered the 3 docs prog (but now do ).




Technically 5. But Tom Baker is hardly in it.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jul 1, 2017)

8den said:


> Technically 5. But Tom Baker is hardly in it.


I think he refused to be in the five doctors so they reused footage from the unfinished Shada story (written by Douglas Adams).


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I might not be quite right on the maths here - not sure where/where John Hurt fits in - but was Capaldi the last of the regenerations?  Does the appearance of the original doc allow them to somehow start the clock again?  Essentially, you've got 2 doctors about to cark it in the snow.


I think they already re-started it some time ago


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2017)

so, best/worst of the season?

I'm still quite taken with the frozen thames one as a belter because of everything about it. Weakest for me was the one with the Romans. Its not that it was bad overall I just...well it wasn't all that. maybe just OK rather than crap

mention in dispatches for the Ice Warriors tho, that was a solid ep

The monks stuff was perhaps the weakest of it all. Comedy pope ffs.


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 1, 2017)

Powerful 7 minute double post!


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jul 1, 2017)

Agree, best for me was Thin Ice and worst was the unnecessary three parter with the monks.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 2, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I remember the 4 docs thing - something to do with rassillon? - but hadn't remembered that I remembered the 3 docs prog (but now do ).


Yeah, five including the First. (So to him it was four others).


----------



## Wilf (Jul 2, 2017)

Somebody tell me that it isn't going to be Kris Marshall. What with Trump - and May getting back in...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 2, 2017)

Official: The First Doctor Returns in multi-Doctor Christmas Special | Doctor Who TV


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Somebody tell me that it isn't going to be Kris Marshall. What with Trump - and May getting back in...



It had better fucking not be.

And you know... tonight almost had me thinking they've been pulling the long con this series, putting out interviews and answering questions seemingly suggesting it won't be a woman, but, but, but... while a lot of the woman/man banter has been about missy/master, there have been some other little lines in there as well about women in charge, women taking over, and so on. If it _is_ going to be a woman (and if it is, it'll be Olivia Colman), then this has all been rather heavily foreshadowed through this entire season.

But sadly I have little faith in any of those twatbags.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2017)

I really enjoyed tonight's episode. The first 10 minutes were shaky, but the rest was solid. Water Woman was a bit out of left field but as cheesy endings to companions go I felt quite satisfied with this one. I may have done a little cry >_>

Mildly irritated that the implication is that the only reason Bill is the first companion in an age not to fall for the Doctor's irresistible wiles is because she's gay, though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> I really enjoyed tonight's episode. The first 10 minutes were shaky, but the rest was solid. Water Woman was a bit out of left field but as cheesy endings to companions go I felt quite satisfied with this one. I may have done a little cry >_>
> 
> Mildly irritated that the implication is that the only reason Bill is the first companion in an age not to fall for the Doctor's irresistible wiles is because she's gay, though.


and he's too old as well, because otherwise he was bang in there right.


Vintage Paw said:


> ere have been some other little lines in there as well about women in charge, women taking over, and so on


noticed a few of those throway bits. Its not going to be a woman. They'll crown corbyn as God-Emperor and paint the statue of liberty pink before that happens.

I was a little disappointed by Simms in this, he did his part well enough but I remember his Master being a lot more intense. Not the white-clothes power-up version, the post jackobi version. He was...deeper and more intense. You work with what lines you get I suppose but he wasn't sufficiently evil yet bereft of meaning and in crisis of person for me. And that goatee is no match for Delgado's facial foliage


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 2, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> It had better fucking not be.
> 
> And you know... tonight almost had me thinking they've been pulling the long con this series, putting out interviews and answering questions seemingly suggesting it won't be a woman, but, but, but... while a lot of the woman/man banter has been about missy/master, there have been some other little lines in there as well about women in charge, women taking over, and so on. If it _is_ going to be a woman (and if it is, it'll be Olivia Colman), then this has all been rather heavily foreshadowed through this entire season.
> 
> But sadly I have little faith in any of those twatbags.


Well the "Master's a woman now maybe she should be nice"arc isn't encouraging. Is there anything in her three years of hanging around that isn't about the Doctor? First off make him her friend then look for him because there friends and lastly get all redemptive because they're friends.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 2, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> so, best/worst of the season?
> 
> I'm still quite taken with the frozen thames one as a belter because of everything about it. Weakest for me was the one with the Romans. Its not that it was bad overall I just...well it wasn't all that. maybe just OK rather than crap
> 
> ...


I think it could have started off as three weak stories that got stitched together. The last part isn't written by Moffat. Tut first probably would of ended with the Doctor entering the simulation saying he'd shat all over the bad guys, the second would of ended with the Doctor exiting the lab after saving the day and the third would of played out pretty similarly but without us knowing in advance what Bill had done.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 2, 2017)

Pretty good episode, I thought.  The doctor properly fought off the cyberman rather than "love saves the day" nonsense.  And it was a small, personal story without a perfect end rather than an epic world-spanning nonsense.  Missy and a Master had some great lines, which they delivered with panache.  And it all tied up too.  Good way to get rid of Bill and Nardal.  I was satisfied, even though it wasn't brilliantly memorable or anything.


----------



## Chz (Jul 2, 2017)

An overall so-so from me, but factoring in how _excruciating_ most of the series finales are it's not too bad at all.

I still don't understand why Master/Missy were even in it past the first 10 minutes. Another case of introducing something and not having the slightest clue where to go with it in the end. They had some fun lines, but that particular side plot was just so pointless. 

The missus: "So why do _we_ see her the way she sees herself, when nobody else does?"
Me: "Because, given the number of lines the character has, it would be really fucking annoying to listen to every single one of them in a sing-songy Cyberman voice."

At least they resisted bringing back Cyber-Brig. I so would have thrown something at the telly. My deepest fear was that in a final "fuck you" to all his detractors, the Grand Moff was going to have the Doctor killed off by having Cyber-Brig jump out from behind the console and bum him to death for a solid 10 minutes.


----------



## Limejuice (Jul 2, 2017)

Chz said:


> My deepest fear was that in a final "fuck you" to all his detractors, the Grand Moff was going to have the Doctor killed off by having Cyber-Brig jump out from behind the console and bum him to death for a solid 10 minutes.



I suppose the pre-watershed scheduling put paid to that option.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2017)

this made me lol:


> The only person who really gets that hope is poor Bill, rescued at the last minute by her space-oil magic love interest (as you do) from the first episode of the season. It’s a bit of a cop-out—the third companion “death but not really” in a row for Moffat’s tenure—but even if it means Bill is now flying around the cosmos with her oil-girlfriend


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 2, 2017)

Bill's ending would have been fine had it not arrived on the heels of Clara's similar-but-way-more-shit ending.


----------



## strung out (Jul 2, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Mildly irritated that the implication is that the only reason Bill is the first companion in an age not to fall for the Doctor's irresistible wiles is because she's gay, though.


That line from Bill about preferring girls is better/funnier if you imagine Cyber-Bill saying it in a robot voice.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 2, 2017)

Chz said:


> I still don't understand why Master/Missy were even in it past the first 10 minutes. Another case of introducing something and not having the slightest clue where to go with it in the end. They had some fun lines, but that particular side plot was just so pointless.



To resolve Missy's arc about her turning against her murderous past, why not have her get in a fight with her actual murderous past?

Still not sure what Simm was doing there though, and what if anything his plan was supposed to be.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 2, 2017)

One interesting bit about Bill's ending though, is that the Doctor doesn't know she isn't dead. I can't remember if the same was true of Clara because I couldn't work out what was going in the final episode of last season with who had forgotten what and frankly I didn't care because everything that was happening was stupid.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 2, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> One interesting bit about Bill's ending though, is that the Doctor doesn't know she isn't dead. I can't remember if the same was true of Clara because I couldn't work out what was going in the final episode of last season with who had forgotten what and frankly I didn't care because everything that was happening was stupid.


He knows she isn't dead but can't remember her. She can remember him and he can remember the stuff they did and that he was with someone but not what she looks like. Shit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2017)

they should be in a spin off series, bill and waterwoman could drop in and spend and hour discussing what a dick the Doctor is with Isildur and clara in their time travelling diner. It could be called waiting for Doctor-Oh or something


----------



## Santino (Jul 2, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> they should be in a spin off series, bill and waterwoman could drop in and spend and hour discussing what a dick the Doctor is with Isildur and clara in their time travelling diner. It could be called waiting for Doctor-Oh or something


And then Ashildr goes and cuts the First Doctor's throat after feeding him his sons in a pie.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 3, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> they should be in a spin off series, bill and waterwoman could drop in and spend and hour discussing what a dick the Doctor is with Isildur and clara in their time travelling diner. It could be called waiting for Doctor-Oh or something



They could call it _The Restaurant at the End of the Universe.
_
Unless that's already a thing.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 3, 2017)

I do wonder if that 'Is all the future female' .. 'I hope so' between Simm and Capaldi was a clue


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 3, 2017)

I hope not


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 3, 2017)

Balbi said:


> I do wonder if that 'Is all the future female' .. 'I hope so' between Simm and Capaldi was a clue



That was the one that stood out the most to me.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 3, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> so, best/worst of the season?
> 
> I'm still quite taken with the frozen thames one as a belter because of everything about it. Weakest for me was the one with the Romans. Its not that it was bad overall I just...well it wasn't all that. maybe just OK rather than crap
> 
> ...


What was the Romans one?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 3, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What was the Romans one?



The one, I suppose, with the Romans?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 3, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What was the Romans one?


9th Legion. Aberdeenshire. There was a stone circle with a portal to another dimension under it. The Picts had been guarding the gate for generations. The monsters ate light. And Romans.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 3, 2017)

The Romans episode certainly contained one of the cheesiest story moments in a very long time - the thing with why they make the noise they make.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 3, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> The Romans episode certainly contained one of the cheesiest story moments in a very long time - the thing with why they make the noise they make.


I like that bit


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 3, 2017)

I groaned. And I like cheesy. But this was the cheesiest of cheese.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 3, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> 9th Legion. Aberdeenshire. There was a stone circle with a portal to another dimension under it. The Picts had been guarding the gate for generations. The monsters ate light. And Romans.


Oh yeah, I remember. Thanks.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 3, 2017)

And what of the death of the master? That seems like a major kill off of a character that has become quite interesting.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 3, 2017)

They always kill the master. It always looks final. They'll be back. Eventually.


----------



## strung out (Jul 3, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> And what of the death of the master? That seems like a major kill off of a character that has become quite interesting.


Like all the other times she's 'died'


----------



## Gromit (Jul 3, 2017)

strung out said:


> Like all the other times she's 'died'


But he used a special anti regeneration gun he said. 

Dunno why because she was already supposedly done on the executioners planet wasn't she?


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 4, 2017)

It was his laser screwdriver and he told her not to bother trying to regenerate as it was on the highest setting. As for the execution planet thing the doctor fiddled with the setting on the machine and just knocked her out. Also if missy was dead why was her body was not found by any one escaping through the lifts.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 4, 2017)

Gromit said:


> But he used a special anti regeneration gun he said.


Should have used a Tissue Compression Eliminator


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 4, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> It was his laser screwdriver and he told her not to bother trying to regenerate as it was on the highest setting. As for the execution planet thing the doctor fiddled with the setting on the machine and just knocked her out. Also if missy was dead why was her body was not found by any one escaping through the lifts.


They used a super secret shaft.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 4, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> It was Clara's exit.


I spoke to soon...

'Doctor Who' Spoilers: Jenna Coleman To Return As Clara Oswald In Christmas Special | HuffPost UK


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 4, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> It was his laser screwdriver and he told her not to bother trying to regenerate as it was on the highest setting. As for the execution planet thing the doctor fiddled with the setting on the machine and just knocked her out. Also if missy was dead why was her body was not found by any one escaping through the lifts.


That highest setting is shit. Didn't even go out the other side and put a hole in the hull.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 4, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> I spoke to soon...
> 
> 'Doctor Who' Spoilers: Jenna Coleman To Return As Clara Oswald In Christmas Special | HuffPost UK



Ugh. Haven't read it yet, but she picked the TARDIS for Hartnell's doc didn't she? Wonder if it'll be along those sorts of lines. Or maybe he goes to her stupid fucking diner.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 4, 2017)

Kris Marshall. Ffs. Peter Davidson all over again.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 4, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Ugh. Haven't read it yet, but she picked the TARDIS for Hartnell's doc didn't she? Wonder if it'll be along those sorts of lines. Or maybe he goes to her stupid fucking diner.


Either a brief cameo like Pond got last time or something that ends with her finally being sent to her death would just about be acceptable. I'm not a big hater but she should of stayed dead.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 4, 2017)

I don't want a female doctor even if the female Master/Mistress has set a precedent. 

However saying that... give me Phoebe Waller-Bridge over Kris Marshall any day of the week. She wrote Fleabag didn't she? I'd probably take her over Moffat as a writer too.


----------



## lazythursday (Jul 4, 2017)

Happy with anyone but Kris bloody Marshall. I can't believe they'd make such a rotten choice but have a horrible feeling some BBC executive has decided Kris is popular with the family audience (and probably pretty cheap too).


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 4, 2017)

Gromit said:


> I don't want a female doctor even if the female Master/Mistress has set a precedent


Why is that?


----------



## Santino (Jul 4, 2017)

joustmaster said:


> Why is that?


Because he's a cunt


----------



## Gromit (Jul 4, 2017)

joustmaster said:


> Why is that?


After 64 years I've kinda gotten used to him being a man. 

They've changed the chocolate they use for KitKats. Guess what? They're shit now. I was used to how they tasted before. 

But in all honesty it's because I know so much time will be spent on commenting how the Dr is a woman now and making big deals (and lame jokes) out of it instead of just romping joyfully through the galaxy.

They may eventually settle down to not to making a big deal out of it but by then it will be too late.

If they 'Starbuck' it then excellent but this is the Beeb and a flagship programme.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 4, 2017)

Christmas special will be about The Doctor learning how change is great after all through his interactions with himself leading to the announcement of an extra big change. It's a cliché and Moffat will handle it badly then Kris Marshall will turn up.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 4, 2017)

Gromit said:


> I don't want a female doctor even if the female Master/Mistress has set a precedent.


Neither do I, for much the same reasons as you.


----------



## Chz (Jul 5, 2017)

I must be the only person who thinks Doctor Who is one of the few vehicles that plays to Kris Marshall's limited acting range. It's not a role notable for all its subtle nuances. Everyone loved Tom Baker, and it's difficult to come up with many bigger hams.

And I liked "My Life in Film", fwiw.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 5, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> Neither do I, for much the same reasons as you.


I can't quite muster up an opinion.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 5, 2017)

My daughter is really not happy about missy going. 
Bloody hell, she was talking about Dr who all the way to school this morning. She loved capaldi as the doctor, but is somehow feverishly excited about the regeneration.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 5, 2017)

I do think whoever they have, and in a way it would be a shame for it to happen with a woman in the role, they should dial back the Doctor's magical abilities somewhat. Super regenerations that come from nowhere and destroy Dalek fleets, mind melds, keepy uppies  and other shit. I get that shows and Doctors change but early on he was essentially just a frail old man who was smart enough to get one over on all sorts of nasties. Patrick Troughton wasn't as old or as frail but he still solved problems with his wits and played on the fact people thought him a fool. Pertwee brought in a bit of karate. That's not neccessarily problematic. Travelling through Time and Space for thousands of years you're going to learn new skills. It would be nice if we saw that learning more often though. I thought the best thing about that Robins Hood episode was he beat the thieving shit at sword fighting and then at shooting arrows. The sword fighting seemed to me just a party trick and the arrows was science. Beaten by deception. None of this the Doctor can outdo the best of the best at their own game shit. It's the Time Lord or alien super powers that appear and disappear for the sake of the so called plot piss me off the most though. When they add nothing to the plot but you're supposed to believe they do is the worst. The message in Bills mind the week before last for example. Adds nothing. Seems he is now immortal and all Captain Scarlett without even needing the last resort of regeneration. Bollocks.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 5, 2017)

He's regenerated so many times that rather than running out of regen power like he's supposed to... he's made regeneration his bitch. 

Holding it off by sheer will alone and siphoning it off to heal others.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 5, 2017)

Gromit said:


> He's regenerated so many times that rather than running out of regen power like he's supposed to... he's made regeneration his bitch.
> 
> Holding it off by sheer will alone and siphoning it off to heal others.


Yeah, bollocks. Super fucking powers.
Missy offered him an indestructible cyber army and unlimited power to Sam Beckett it around the universe. He already has that but it's unexplored. A fucking big elephant. They copped out of that one letting him just take the bracelet off. A bit of time with him dealing with that power and being tempted etc could of been interesting. Oh no one speech and it's all over. If your going to make him a super powered immortal god at least go with it but I'd rather have the underdog with something about him and a time machine.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 5, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Yeah, bollocks. Super fucking powers.
> Missy offered him an indestructible cyber army and unlimited power to Sam Beckett it around the universe. He already has that but it's unexplored. A fucking big elephant. They copped out of that one letting him just take the bracelet off. A bit of time with him dealing with that power and being tempted etc could of been interesting. Oh no one speech and it's all over. If your going to make him a super powered immortal god at least go with it but I'd rather have the underdog with something about him and a time machine.


Underdog?!

He keeps bragging about how he's the Doctor. Look me up. I'm the invincible super power. 
He then tries to play it off as a menacing bluff to his companions but in truth he's really is saying to his opponents that he is the killer beanz. Number one badass if he must be. 

Unfortunately the only Doctor Who truly managed to pull off menacing was Ecleston. He was the only one you could believe when he said don't fuck with me I'll destroy your arse.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 5, 2017)

Gromit said:


> After 64 years I've kinda gotten used to him being a man.
> 
> They've changed the chocolate they use for KitKats. Guess what? They're shit now. I was used to how they tasted before.
> 
> ...


Would you deploy these arguments against women politicians, scientists or train drivers?


----------



## Wilf (Jul 5, 2017)

Gromit said:


> *After 64 years I've kinda gotten used to him being a man. white.*
> 
> They've changed the chocolate they use for KitKats. Guess what? They're shit now. I was used to how they tasted before.
> 
> ...


 Does that work for you as well?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 5, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Would you deploy these arguments against women politicians, scientists or train drivers?


No I'm not against trans people in any of those careers. Just fictional characters doing it for cheap plot.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 5, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Does that work for you as well?


Don't understand the question.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 5, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Don't understand the question.


You say you don't want a female Doctor because of your expectations and the possibility it would attract interest. I'm asking if you would deploy the same arguments against a BME Doctor.


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 5, 2017)

Dear god Gromit.  It wouldn't make the doctor trans.  I don't know where to begin with that much stupid.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 5, 2017)

I'd like it if in the program they made almost nothing out of the fact that the doctor was a woman now, but throughout the series she would find herself discriminated against, eg psychic paper not working because people don't believe a woman can be in the position of power the doctor need to be claiming, or people always talking to the doctor's male companion instead of her even though it's clear she is in charge and the companion is clueless.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 5, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> Dear god Gromit.  It wouldn't make the doctor trans.  I don't know where to begin with that much stupid.


Didn't say it would but apart from politicians the others don't have regeneration powers. 
Some politicians do seem to be able to return from the dead but I'm not aware of any that have changed sex whilst doing so... yet.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 5, 2017)

BigTom said:


> I'd like it if in the program they made almost nothing out of the fact that the doctor was a woman now, but throughout the series she would find herself discriminated against, eg psychic paper not working because people don't believe a woman can be in the position of power the doctor need to be claiming, or people always talking to the doctor's male companion instead of her even though it's clear she is in charge and the companion is clueless.


Wouldn't that go against precedent. 
Female companions have been included as part of the authority suggested by the paper previously. 
I think one even used it all by herself once and was accepted.


----------



## BigTom (Jul 6, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Wouldn't that go against precedent.
> Female companions have been included as part of the authority suggested by the paper previously.
> I think one even used it all by herself once and was accepted.



Precedent has never been much of an issue really but it was just a thought about how a female doctor might be received differently, what are the doctorish things that might be affected in subtler ways you could weave in.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 6, 2017)

Nurse.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 6, 2017)

No subtlety.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 6, 2017)

I want romana to come back.


----------



## Chz (Jul 6, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I want romana to come back.


One of the old ones, or a new one?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 6, 2017)

Chz said:


> One of the old ones, or a new one?


Ideally lala ward (is that her name) but no older than she was in the 80s


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 7, 2017)

Its lalla


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jul 7, 2017)

Mary Tamm was better.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 8, 2017)

PursuedByBears said:


> Mary Tamm was better.





PursuedByBears said:


> Mary Tamm was better.





PursuedByBears said:


> Mary Tamm was better.


No


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 8, 2017)

so is there no Dr Who today?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 8, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> so is there no Dr Who today?


No.

Xmas special next


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 8, 2017)

Lazy Llama said:


> No.
> 
> Xmas special next





Lazy Llama said:


> No.
> 
> Xmas special next


Ah, that's what I told my daughter but she simply would not except it and made me check. She is pretty angry now. 
She really seems to be into the whole history of it, and isnt just into the recent stuff. She is also interested in how the writing has changed and why it was cancelled (though I don't really think we have watched much Colin Baker). She doesn't know any of the actors names apart from Capaldi and Tom Baker, (her favorites), she also go on about a "midget", though I still cant quite figure out who this is. She considers me really lucky to have lived through the tom baker stuff. 
Its become a real daddy / daughter thing, a bit like I had with my dad and spaghetti westerns (though my dad was apparently oblivious to this, and now isn't even sure he actually likes any sort of western. Its certainly fueling my dr who enjoyment. Bit sad that we cant watch it this saturday at tea time.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2017)

sly mcoy wasn't very tall in comparison to beanpoles like Tom Baker and Tennant? could be...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 8, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> sly mcoy wasn't very tall in comparison to beanpoles like Tom Baker and Tennant? could be...


Could be. 
I think it might oddly be Patrick Troughton. does the first doctor call him a midget when he calls Pertwee a dandy in the three doctors? She loves it when more than one meet. She almost wet herself when the first dr turned up at the end last week. She was a bit bummed out when I said it wasn't the original actor though. 
She refuses to call the five doctors the five doctors "Its actually only four doctors daddy, the good one isnt really in it"


----------



## strung out (Jul 8, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Could be.
> I think it might oddly be Patrick Troughton. does the first doctor call him a midget when he calls Pertwee a dandy in the three doctors? She loves it when more than one meet. She almost wet herself when the first dr turned up at the end last week. She was a bit bummed out when I said it wasn't the original actor though.
> She refuses to call the five doctors the five doctors "Its actually only four doctors daddy, the good one isnt really in it"


Hartnell's calls Pertwee and Troughton 'a dandy and a clown'


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 8, 2017)

strung out said:


> Hartnell's calls Pertwee and Troughton 'a dandy and a clown'


Ah yes of course. 

She wants to watch Dr Who this evening but I can only provide her with my DVD collection of classics. Any suggestions of a classic story?


----------



## strung out (Jul 8, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ah yes of course.
> 
> She wants to watch Dr Who this evening but I can only provide her with my DVD collection of classics. Any suggestions of a classic story?


The Daleks Master Plan - 1st Doctor
Spearhead from Space - 2nd Doctor
Tomb of the Cybermen - 3rd Doctor
Robots of Death - 4th Doctor
Enlightenment - 5th Doctor
Revelation of the Daleks - 6th Doctor
The Greatest Show in the Galaxy - 7th Doctor

Off the top of my head some of my favourites!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 8, 2017)

strung out said:


> The Daleks Master Plan - 1st Doctor
> Spearhead from Space - 2nd Doctor
> Tomb of the Cybermen - 3rd Doctor
> Robots of Death - 4th Doctor
> ...



Spearhead and Tomb the wrong way round there I think.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 8, 2017)

Just got back from the Dr who experience, it  was brilliant and good to see series 10 props and costumes up before it closes. The grandkids  thoroughly enjoyed it,  and I probably took way to many photos the best one for me is the one where I'm standing next to bessie.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 8, 2017)

She went for tomb. I think she likes the Trout.


----------



## Cloo (Jul 9, 2017)

gsv reckons they're gearing up for a female Doctor given various discussions about women in the last episode. I too like the idea of a female Doctor encountering sexist bullshit, but I don't know if they'd go for that.


----------



## Chz (Jul 9, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Spearhead and Tomb the wrong way round there I think.


Otherwise a great selection. I do like the androids in Robots of Death for the same reason that I like the old-school Cybermen. They just seem far more creepy. Plus, it's Agatha Christie on an alien sand-miner instead of a train!


----------



## strung out (Jul 9, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Spearhead and Tomb the wrong way round there I think.


Oops, yep - fat fingers when copying and pasting them into the right order.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 14, 2017)

The new doctor is going to be announced after the tennis on Sunday.


----------



## Chz (Jul 14, 2017)

And, as per usual, it will not be anyone previously guessed at. Though if it's Jason Watkins I may have to revisit my thoughts on gambling.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2017)

Chz said:


> And, as per usual, it will not be anyone previously guessed at. Though if it's Jason Watkins I may have to revisit my thoughts on gambling.



Capaldi was widely predicted beforehand.

I'll have a window open on Sunday, ready for if I need to throw the telly out of it in the event Kris 'Just Look At His Stupid Fucking Face' Marshall is the next Doctor.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 14, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Capaldi was widely predicted beforehand.
> 
> I'll have a window open on Sunday, ready for if I need to throw the telly out of it in the event Kris 'Just Look At His Stupid Fucking Face' Marshall is the next Doctor.


the worst of it is that even if its true I'll still watch it


----------



## Corax (Jul 14, 2017)

The Mirror have an 'article' all about the regeneration announcement and the teaser video.

My favourite part of which is their description of the key resting on a "bizarre looking stone plinth."

It's a common or garden triangulation point FFS you twatstands


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2017)

Corax said:


> The Mirror have an 'article' all about the regeneration announcement and the teaser video.
> 
> My favourite part of which is their description of the key resting on a "bizarre looking stone plinth."
> 
> It's a common or garden triangulation point FFS you twatstands



Bizarre looking indeed. Anyone who's ever climbed a hill in Britain has seen one.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 14, 2017)

Once again I've got my fingers crossed for either Paterson Joseph or Olivia Colman.


----------



## Corax (Jul 14, 2017)

After the latest leaks the bookies have slashed the odds on Danny Dyer - looks like it's going to be him.  Maybe it'll work - I'll reserve judgement until after the first couple of episodes.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 15, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> the worst of it is that even if its true I'll still watch it


You'd still watch it if it was Kris Akabusi.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 15, 2017)

Corax said:


> After the latest leaks the bookies have slashed the odds on Danny Dyer - looks like it's going to be him.  Maybe it'll work - I'll reserve judgement until after the first couple of episodes.


Daleks you slags. Jog on I'm the Doctor.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 15, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Capaldi was widely predicted beforehand.
> 
> I'll have a window open on Sunday, ready for if I need to throw the telly out of it in the event Kris 'Just Look At His Stupid Fucking Face' Marshall is the next Doctor.


Is he really that bad?
I can't say I'm really bothered by him. Only seen him in my family and love actually though.


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 15, 2017)

Wilf said:


> You'd still watch it if it was Kris Akabusi.


That would be amazing


----------



## Chz (Jul 15, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Capaldi was widely predicted beforehand.
> 
> I'll have a window open on Sunday, ready for if I need to throw the telly out of it in the event Kris 'Just Look At His Stupid Fucking Face' Marshall is the next Doctor.


It was a very last minute thing in the betting odds. Admittedly by _now _(the day before the reveal) they'd sorted it. 

I still don't get the Marshall hate. He's a good pick for the role. Who's always been a bit bumbling in the past, and while that might be the only character he can play he does it well enough. I'm quite sick of "I saved the entire universe multiple times and you should be afraid of Earth because *I * protect it" nonsense. I know Pertwee was imperious at times, but then he exiled to Earth for most of his time so it suited.


----------



## belboid (Jul 15, 2017)

Jodie Whittaker is second favourite??!!  Would be an interesting choice


----------



## Corax (Jul 15, 2017)

belboid said:


> Jodie Whittaker is second favourite??!!  Would be an interesting choice


Further leaks on IRC (and _very_ hastily deleted twitter posts lol) has it very firmly locked down as Dyer.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 15, 2017)

Corax said:


> Further leaks on IRC (and _very_ hastily deleted twitter posts lol) has it very firmly locked down as Dyer.


m8s, its not going to work. Everyone knows his Walford schedule is not going to allow that.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Is he really that bad?



_Just look at his stupid fucking face _


----------



## D'wards (Jul 15, 2017)

The producers have to tread a fine line between keeping the fanboys and the Guardian journalists happy. The two may prove to be mutually exclusive


----------



## Corax (Jul 15, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> m8s, its not going to work. Everyone knows his Walford schedule is not going to allow that.


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 15, 2017)

belboid said:


> Jodie Whittaker is second favourite??!!  Would be an interesting choice


Evens on Ladbrokes as the favourite.


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 15, 2017)

Ladbrokes


----------



## Gromit (Jul 15, 2017)

It's to be announced after Wimbledon final. 
Just one more reason to wish that bloody Wimbledon was over already.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 15, 2017)

Everything Chinballs has said points to him not choosing a woman. I hope it was misdirection. Although quite why you have to make yourself sound like a fucking troglodyte dick to engage in a bit of smoke and mirrors is beyond me.


----------



## gosub (Jul 15, 2017)

Gromit said:


> It's to be announced after Wimbledon final.
> Just one more reason to wish that bloody Wimbledon was over already.


Outside chance it's Federer then


----------



## Gromit (Jul 15, 2017)

gosub said:


> Outside chance it's Federer then


They seem to like scots. Is there such a thing as a Scottish tennis player?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> It's to be announced after Wimbledon final.
> Just one more reason to wish that bloody Wimbledon was over already.


I've put a score on Dyer.  Don't usually bet but just seems like easy money.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

Corax said:


> I've put a score on Dyer.  Don't usually bet but just seems like easy money.


He's is the market for a new companion I hear.

Danny Dyer moves out of family home amid marriage rift rumours


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> They seem to like scots. Is there such a thing as a Scottish tennis player?



British no.1 and double Wimbledon champion Andy Murray?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> British no.1 and double Wimbledon champion Andy Murray?


No Scottish not British.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

When does the tennis finish?


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> When does the tennis finish?


When it finishes


----------



## D'wards (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> When does the tennis finish?


Hard to tell. Tune in from about 3:45 and you won't miss it. Might have to sit through a load of tennis though


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2017)

fuck that I'll just wait till its all over the web.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

D'wards said:


> Hard to tell. Tune in from about 3:45 and you won't miss it. Might have to sit through a load of tennis though


Christ. 

If I give you my mobile number will you text me?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

belboid said:


> When it finishes


I dont think that's a very good system. In fact it doesn't seem worthy of the word "system" at all.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I dont think that's a very good system. In fact it doesn't seem worthy of the word "system" at all.


It _could_ go on for three days. I'd imagine they'd make the reveal in one of the overnight breaks in play, in that case.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Christ.
> 
> If I give you my mobile number will you text me?


No worries. Pm it over 
I'll text when the tennis is won, to give you warning, and will probably be about 10-30 minutes after that, following the award giving and interviews etc


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

belboid said:


> It _could_ go on for three days. I'd imagine they'd make the reveal in one of the overnight breaks in play, in that case.


Really? I thought that was cricket! 

Why? Why would they do this?


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

It's officially down to be 6.30, btw


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Really? I thought that was cricket!
> 
> Why? Why would they do this?


Because if no one has won....no one has won. I take it the names/phrase Isner-Mahut means nothing to you.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

Looks like being just after four, at this rate.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

belboid said:


> Because if no one has won....no one has won. I take it the names/phrase Isner-Mahut means nothing to you.


No, that means nothing to me. I take it that's who is playing, though. Well I hope they have a lovely time. Im not blaming them, I blame the BBC for this ludicrously inexact scheduling decision. This is Dr Who after all, not something trivial.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> No, that means nothing to me. I take it that's who is playing, though. Well I hope they have a lovely time. Im not blaming them, I blame the BBC for this ludicrously inexact scheduling decision. This is Dr Who after all, not something trivial.


No, Mr Roger Federer (aka the greatest tennis player of all time, easy) and Mr Someotherbloke are playing today. Isner-Mahut was the longest game ever played - nearly twelve hours, over three days. It's legendary, even though it was largely tedious to watch. 

Looking like it's going to be about 3.30 now...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

belboid said:


> No, Mr Roger Federer (aka the greatest tennis player of all time, easy) and Mr Someotherbloke are playing today. Isner-Mahut was the longest game ever played - nearly twelve hours, over three days. It's legendary, even though it was largely tedious to watch.
> 
> Looking like it's going to be about 3.30 now...


Cool! I was just about to check my guttering for leaves and gunk. Maybe I'll put that off, then.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 16, 2017)

is there a scheduled time for the announcement to tune into?


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

I think 13 is warming up in her changing room right now


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

Well, that match is over. I suspect they'll show some of the Mixed Doubles final before the announcement- which will be at 6.15.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 16, 2017)

belboid said:


> Well, that match is over. I suspect they'll show some of the Mixed Doubles final before the announcement- which will be at 6.15.



There'll be riots if they make people (me) sit through two hours of mixed doubles...


----------



## D'wards (Jul 16, 2017)

Should be soon now


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> There'll be riots if they make people (me) sit through two hours of mixed doubles...


Too right !

Plus my gutters have been abandoned now, so if I get damp I'm blaming the tennis!


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 16, 2017)

I keep expecting Sue Ryder to say "And now.....the Doctor!"


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

belboid said:


> I think 13 is warming up in her changing room right now


Men's or women's changing rooms?


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

What's the best way to protest if it's that Kris Whatsit? Take a dump in a policebox?


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Men's or women's changing rooms?


What does the word 'her' generally imply?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## kabbes (Jul 16, 2017)

Jodie Whittaker it is


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

omfg

Told you the hints were there.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

Good choice. Hopefully.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

Was that it? I sat through all that sport for that little clip? FFS!

I want MOAR!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 16, 2017)

I think Twitter is about to explode.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2017)

Jodie Whitaker is far too blah imho. 
Was really hoping for Maxine Peak


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2017)

Oh ffs, How stupid.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I think Twitter is about to explode.



You're a bit late. The BBC's announcement tweet had a couple of thousand retweets before I'd even stopped squeeing.


----------



## FiFi (Jul 16, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I think Twitter is about to explode.


Oh I do hope so! 
The Teen is thrilled! She's been pointing out the hints in the recent series, and really, really hoping for a female Dr.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2017)

Not Marshall or Dire so I'm happy.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

kittyP said:


> Jodie Whitaker is far too blah imho.
> Was really hoping for Maxine Peak



I was holding out for Olivia Colman. She has the best time lord face imo.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Oh ffs, How stupid.



diddums


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

She was middling in Attack the Block. 
Don't remember her from St Trinians. 
I've never seen a single episode of Broadchurch. 

I'm going to have to reserve judgement.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Oh ffs, How stupid.


Fuck off


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> omfg
> 
> Told you the hints were there.


When you pointed out the hints I was like ur yeah that does seem a bit hintey now you mention it, whilst still hoping you were wrong.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> View attachment 111429


The Tardis is already full of bras. 
Or does he think that when the companions change into period outfits that they go commando?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

kittyP said:


> Jodie Whitaker is far too blah imho.


I don't think I know her. Although I recognise her. She's a bit young looking, but I'm hoping she can overcome that. 

I'm very excited! This is good, I think.

I want a shite live couch show! I want gabbling presenters and bad segues! I want interviews with old companions we'd all forgotten and a live link to a boy band going wrong!

Why can't the BBC be like I criticised them for being a few years ago?


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> The Tardis is already full of bras.
> Or does he think that when the companions change into period outfits that they go commando?




Credit goes to -


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> View attachment 111429


Well...


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Oh ffs, How stupid.


Why so? I _suspect_ you are being a twat, but just thought I'd give you a chance.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> When you pointed out the hints I was like ur yeah that does seem a bit hintey now you mention it, whilst still hoping you were wrong.



Thankfully you were wrong, as usual.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2017)

So feminists have ruined a great British TV iconic male character.  I wish it had have been Danny Dyer. He would have been totally wrong for the role, but at least he would have been the correct sex................


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 16, 2017)

At the moment I'm kind of enjoying all the internet wailing about it being a woman because it's so delicious it finally happened, but it's going to get old well before Christmas. It's going to get old before there are mince pies in the shops, which is next Wednesday.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2017)

What next? The next James Bond movie staring Deidre from Coronation Street?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> What next? The next James Bond movie staring Deidre from Coronation Street?



I'd watch the shit out of that.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> I was holding out for Olivia Colman. She has the best time lord face imo.



I thought Olivia Coleman would have been very good but people would complain that she is on telly too much I think


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> What next? The next James Bond movie staring Deidre from Coronation Street?



Well, now you happen to mention it...


----------



## Espresso (Jul 16, 2017)

I reckon it would be a bit of a stretch to cast a dead woman as James Bond.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

kittyP said:


> I thought Olivia Coleman would have been very good but people would complain that she is on telly too much I think



I barely watch telly so I never see her, lol. I hold out hope she'll be there one day. With that amazing time lord sarky grin.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

She was great in Broadchurch, doing proper acting. Olivia Coleman would have been better though, proper acting + comedy - the right Who mix.  Anyway, I'm 3000% relieved it's not Marshal.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

kittyP said:


> I thought Olivia Coleman would have been very good but people would complain that she is on telly too much I think


She's somehow been around for a while but crept up on us as a superb actress.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So feminists have ruined a great British TV iconic male character.  I wish it had have been Danny Dyer. He would have been totally wrong for the role, but at least he would have been the correct sex................


You really are the thickest prick I've ever come across. At least this means you'll stop watching and sharing your worthless opinion


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 16, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> At the moment I'm kind of enjoying all the internet wailing about it being a woman because it's so delicious it finally happened, but it's going to get old well before Christmas. It's going to get old before there are mince pies in the shops, which is next Wednesday.


I'm waiting for the wave of transphobia that will inevitably be thrown up.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So feminists have ruined a great British TV iconic male character.  I wish it had have been Danny Dyer. He would have been totally wrong for the role, but at least he would have been the correct sex................


I hope they make it so that she still fancies women so your head explodes


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 16, 2017)

arrrrrhhh. I dont know her but she looks sooooo boring. lets hope she can over act. my daughter on the other hand did cartwheels at just the thought that there is a woman dr who in her life time, so I have to go along with that. mr who is for her age now. just wish it was a swinton or a missy and not such a mor beauty. 
by the way my daughter literally did cartwheels in the garden and shouted to the world about how happy she was, so i know this is big for her.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## PursuedByBears (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

Who the fuck ever really thought it would be Swinton? Would be great but absolutely zero chance of it happening


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I hope they make it so that she still fancies women so your head explodes





Bungle73 said:


> So feminists have ruined a great British TV iconic male character.  I wish it had have been Danny Dyer. He would have been totally wrong for the role, but at least he would have been the correct sex................


You're like some corner of Urban that is forever Daily Mail.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2017)

belboid said:


> Who the fuck ever really thought it would be Swinton? Would be great but absolutely zero chance of it happening



I know. When I saw her suggested I scoffed at the idea that she would find the time to do/want to do it, as amazing as she would have been.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2017)

Wilf said:


> You're like some corner of Urban that is forever Daily Mail.


I don't think you know what you are talking about do you?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

A Who writer:


----------



## FiFi (Jul 16, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> arrrrrhhh. I dont know her but she looks sooooo boring. lets hope she can over act. my daughter on the other hand did cartwheels at just the thought that there is a woman dr who in her life time, so I have to go along with that. mr who is for her age now. just wish it was a swinton or a missy and not such a mor beauty.
> by the way my daughter literally did cartwheels in the garden and shouted to the world about how happy she was, so i know this is big for her.


I don't know how old your daughter is, but mine is 18 and was literally dancing round the room! She and her friends are now frantically messaging each other to discuss it.
 It is a HUGH deal for young women!


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 16, 2017)

I do think trans people should be referring to their transitions as regenerations now.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> I'm waiting for the wave of transphobia that will inevitably be thrown up.


What?!?!


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> I don't think you know what you are talking about do you?


Well, when it comes to knowing what you are talking about, you said:


> So feminists have ruined a great British TV iconic male character


Would you like to give us some detail about that? Which feminists? What did they do?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

FiFi said:


> I don't know how old your daughter is, but mine is 18 and was literally dancing round the room! She and her friends are now frantically messaging each other to discuss it.
> It is a HUGH deal for young women!


Hope for their sakes it / she isn't shit. 
Cause you know what will be blamed.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2017)

This has really perked me up on a rainy Sunday.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Well, when it comes to knowing what you are talking about, you said:
> 
> Would you like to give us some detail about that? Which feminists? What did they do?


German Grear. She probably wrote a book about how if the Dr was a woman we'd one day be advanced enough to have a female Prime minister.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

I've been refreshing Tom Harris's twitter page for the last 40 minutes. So far nothing.


----------



## A380 (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Well, when it comes to knowing what you are talking about, you said:
> 
> Would you like to give us some detail about that? Which feminists? What did they do?


How else do you explain this nonsense then? Some of us have been following the show since probably before most of you were even born, and now we've just been crapped on from a great height. The character is MALE, has always been MALE, and should have stayed MALE.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

Oooooooh I see. The guy replacing Moffat as writer is writer for Broadchurch. 

To those who watch Broadchurch, please tell me that the writing is genuinely excellent please?

If so it may all work out rather than turn into a horrendous nightmare.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So feminists have ruined a great British TV iconic male character.  I wish it had have been Danny Dyer. He would have been totally wrong for the role, but at least he would have been the correct sex................



Regardless of whether this new person will be any good, the thought of all the MRA tosspots having fits of apoplexy is reason enough to celebrate.


----------



## inva (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> How else do you explain this nonsense then? Some of us have been following the show since probably before most of you were even born, and now we've just been crapped on from a great height. The character is MALE, has always been MALE, and should have stayed MALE.


got no interest in doctor who but just posting to say lol


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

Here's a great twitter thread with former Labour MP Tom Harris threatening to block people for asking him why he didn't want the Doctor to be a woman:


----------



## Santino (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> How else do you explain this nonsense then? Some of us have been following the show since probably before most of you were even born, and now we've just been crapped on from a great height. The character is MALE, has always been MALE, and should have stayed MALE.


The best thing about the decision is how much it's upset pricks.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> How else do you explain this nonsense then? Some of us have been following the show since probably before most of you were even born, and now we've just been crapped on from a great height. The character is MALE, has always been MALE, and should have stayed MALE.


Well, I've been watching it since something like 1965 and I've managed to stay calm.  Unless you are in the camp of thinking all authority figures are inherently male (looks like you are to be honest), I'd have thought a regenerating timelord was inherently someone who could change gender, ethnicity etc.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> How else do you explain this nonsense then? Some of us have been following the show since probably before most of you were even born, and now we've just been crapped on from a great height. The character is MALE, has always been MALE, and should have stayed MALE.



My first clear memory of Who is from 1973, and I'm delighted by this casting.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2017)

Santino said:


> The best thing about the decision is how much it's upset pricks.


So I'm a "prick" am I because I don't want a character that I grew up with, and that was a huge part of my childhood, to be fucked about with? Fuck off


SpookyFrank said:


> Regardless of whether this new person will be any good, the thought of all the MRA tosspots having fits of apoplexy is reason enough to celebrate.


 
I've no idea what an "MRA" even is..........

Seems a lot of you don't care about the character AT ALL.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2017)

what is there in the character that means it has to be a man? this change is perfectly canon. I've been a lifelong fan, watched back during the interregnum stuff that hadn't aired in my lifetime. Anyway my seal of rassilon tattoo gives me the authority to declare this a good choice. Even the crap Baker agrees


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> My first clear memory of Who is from 1973, and I'm delighted by this casting.


I've been watching since 1743 and 2745 and 1986. 
In all that time/s this will be known as the worst casting ever. Unlucky 13.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> My first clear memory of Who is from 1973, and I'm delighted by this casting.


My first memory of Dr Who is Patrick Troughton. I clearly remember Jamie being dropped back into his own time. I'm delighted by this casting and I can't wait for more! It's very exciting.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2017)

I mean did you get upset this much when he turned out to have a wife whereas old who was never interested in that?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2017)

Feminists. Ruining childhoods yet again.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> My first memory of Dr Who is Patrick Troughton. I clearly remember Jamie being dropped back into his own time. I'm delighted by this casting and I can't wait for more! It's very exciting.


You got at least half a year to enjoy that feeling. Enjoy it whilst it lasts.


----------



## strung out (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So I'm a "prick" am I because I don't want a character that I grew up with, and that was a huge part of my childhood, to be fucked about with? Fuck off


The character's already been 'fucked about with' 13 times


----------



## tommers (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So I'm a "prick" am I because I don't want a character that I grew up with, and that was a huge part of my childhood, to be fucked about with? Fuck off
> 
> 
> I've no idea what an "MRA" even is..........
> ...


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So I'm a "prick" am I because I don't want a character that I grew up with, and that was a huge part of my childhood, to be fucked about with? Fuck off
> 
> 
> I've no idea what an "MRA" even is..........
> ...


I think your gender politics are absurd. But more to the point you don't seem to have a grasp on the Dr character yourself. The whole point about regenerations is change and there's been a running theme for a long time that the categories humans use to describe things are limited. Having a female doc shouldn't be too much of a surprise.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Feminists. Ruining childhoods yet again.


I remember when you could have two childhoods for half a sixpence and still have change enough for fish n chips. 
Bloody feminists changed all that.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> My first memory of Dr Who is Patrick Troughton. I clearly remember Jamie being dropped back into his own time.



Mine's the maggots in The Green Death. Shit me right up they did


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> You got at least half a year to enjoy that feeling. Enjoy it whilst it lasts.


Well, of course they might still fuck it up. But I think this is a good indication that it won't go stale at least.

Not that we should be seeing it as radical casting. As far as I can see she's a mainstream, prime time actor with a proven track record in high ratings TV. 

Billy no-mates, raging on the internet in his pants in his mum's basement just needs to grow up is all.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2017)

strung out said:


> The character's already been 'fucked about with' 13 times


Er no. The important things were kept consistent.



Wilf said:


> I think your gender politics are absurd. But more to the point you don't seem to have a grasp on the Dr character yourself. The whole point about regenerations is change and there's been a running theme for a long time that the categories humans use to describe things are limited. Having a female doc shouldn't be too much of a surprise.


"Gender politics"? It's a fucking TV show character. The fact that you think that this has something to do with "gender politics" only goes to prove that this change has been made for exactly the reasons we all know it has.


----------



## WellRounded (Jul 16, 2017)

It seems like most people who are pleased at the casting are pleased _because_ she is a woman. 

Not because this particular woman will be any good at the role. 

I liked the Fleabag woman for the role, not seen Jodie in anything other than Broadchurch


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Er no. The important things were kept consistent.



The genitals?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Santino (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So I'm a "prick" am I because I don't want a character that I grew up with, and that was a huge part of my childhood, to be fucked about with?


Not just that, no.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 16, 2017)

FiFi said:


> I don't know how old your daughter is, but mine is 18 and was literally dancing round the room! She and her friends are now frantically messaging each other to discuss it.
> It is a HUGH deal for young women!


10.
I can certainly appreciate her enthusiasm, and I'll run with that.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 16, 2017)

The real-life Victor Kennedy speaks his branes


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

WellRounded said:


> It seems like most people who are pleased at the casting are pleased _because_ she is a woman.


If I'm honest I'm mainly delighted it isn't Kris Marshall.


----------



## red & green (Jul 16, 2017)

She was in attack the block - would have preferred an older woman but...


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> a mainstream, prime time actor with a proven track record in high ratings TV.


David Tennent. Nuff said. 

RIP Dr Who.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> If I'm honest I'm mainly delighted it isn't Kris Marshall.


God yes.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> David Tennent. Nuff said.
> 
> RIP Dr Who.



But it was great again after so not RIP Dr Who at all. Unless you have not watched it since Tennent?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

WellRounded said:


> I liked the Fleabag woman for the role



Me too.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

kittyP said:


> But it was great again after so not RIP Dr Who at all. Unless you have not watched it since Tennent?


It was RIP. Then it resurected / regenerated like Christ our Lord.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2017)

10s run is remembered with lots of love by some people. It wasn't shit, are people saying it was shit now, well they are wrong


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> David Tennent. Nuff said.
> 
> RIP Dr Who.


Well it'd be enough said if I knew what you were driving at but I don't so it isn't.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> 10s run is remembered with lots of love by some people. It wasn't shit, are people saying it was shit now, well they are wrong



I liked Tennent.


----------



## WellRounded (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> If I'm honest I'm mainly delighted it isn't Kris Marshall.



I don't get the hate for Marshall tbh. if written well, it could have worked. Similarly, Jodie could be terrible if the storylines are shite


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> What?!?!


I've already seen one. People will be making transphobic jokes about this. Why are you so surprised? Plus I  don't entirely trust the BBC not to have milked this for a few transphobic laughs when the show finally airs.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Well it'd be enough said if I knew what you were driving at but I don't so it isn't.


Tennent was the 'One Direction' of Doctor Who and matched everything you said.


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 16, 2017)

800+ episodes - of which (on the most charitable interpretation) about 20 have had a woman play any kind of role in writing them. Still some more glass ceilings to break.



Bungle73 said:


> How else do you explain this nonsense then? Some of us have been following the show since probably before most of you were even born, and now we've just been crapped on from a great height. The character is MALE, has always been MALE, and should have stayed MALE.


I watched it from the first episode into the early 70s by which time I'd grown up a bit You should try it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2017)

WellRounded said:


> I don't get the hate for Marshall tbh. if written well, it could have worked. Similarly, Jodie could be terrible if the storylines are shite


A good doctor/companion team doesn't necessarily stand or fall on a bad story- lets face it capaldi's run had its stinkers but you rated his and colemans performance regardless. And when its good, it very good. Of course a consistent run of tripe will ruin anything but we'll see


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 16, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Well, I've been watching it since something like 1965 and I've managed to stay calm.  Unless you are in the camp of thinking all authority figures are inherently male (looks like you are to be honest), I'd have thought a regenerating timelord was inherently someone who could change gender, ethnicity etc.


If they can change apparent age and nationality and accents, and many other characteristics like height id have thought becoming a woman was a doddle. 
Just wonder now if she has to go through all the crap about changing documentation and proving her gender, having her genitialia questioned, being accused of being a man because she used to appear to be one, etc that we mere earthlings have to go through.


----------



## gosub (Jul 16, 2017)

Hopefully she'll have tardis lessons, doctor was notoriously bad at driving it even before
[emoji14]


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

WellRounded said:


> I don't get the hate for Marshall tbh.


He's a boyish romcom actor. I've only ever seen him do Hugh-Grant-lite. Now that might be massively unfair and he might have the range to pull off ancient-alien-hobo-rebel but I doubt it. (Due to my prejudice probably). 

He reminds me too much of Peter Davidson, who I prefer to pretend didn't happen.


> Similarly, Jodie could be terrible if the storylines are shite


Agreed.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So I'm a "prick" am I because I don't want a character that I grew up with, and that was a huge part of my childhood, to be fucked about with? Fuck off
> 
> 
> I've no idea what an "MRA" even is..........
> ...



What's next Murder He Wrote? The worlds gone PC mad


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> A good doctor/companion team doesn't necessarily stand or fall on a bad story- lets face it capaldi's run had its stinkers but you rated his and colemans performance regardless. And when its good, it very good. Of course a consistent run of tripe will ruin anything but we'll see


Yup. I thought Capaldi was a great Doctor. But his first two series were not great series. Indeed they were mostly terrible.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> How else do you explain this nonsense then? Some of us have been following the show since probably before most of you were even born, and now we've just been crapped on from a great height. The character is MALE, has always been MALE, and should have stayed MALE.


Shut the fuck up you tedious, predictable prick.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Er no. The important things were kept consistent.


What are these 'important things' it is impossible for a woman to have/hold/portray?




> "Gender politics"? It's a fucking TV show character. The fact that you think that this has something to do with "gender politics" only goes to prove that this change has been made for exactly the reasons we all know it has.


If a woman being incapable of portraying a character previously played by a male isn't an example of your crappy gender politics, what is?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

Anyway, it's good that Dr Who has finally caught up with Inspector Spacetime (Minerva annoyed the fanboys too).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 16, 2017)

I simply can't believe how the lefty PC feminist brigade have ruined the credibility of a Saturday night family TV show regenerating time travelling alien with two hearts.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

WellRounded said:


> I don't get the hate for Marshall tbh. if written well, it could have worked. Similarly, Jodie could be terrible if the storylines are shite


The true test is if they are crap when the script is good. 
Even Capaldi sucked when the script sucked. 

I can think of few actors who can overturn a sucky script:
Gabriel Byrne. 
Samusl L Jackson
Rosie O'Donnell

Those are A listers.
So they really are a rarity at the level of cheapish TV entertainment


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> The true test is if they are crap when the script is good.
> Even Capaldi sucked when the script sucked.
> 
> I can think of few actors who can overturn a sucky script:
> ...


You obviously didn't see Byrne in Vikings, he was awful.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

As soon as the Doc starts explaining sciencey stuff - to _men_ no doubt - the MRA's on here, and elsewhere, are going to go absolutely apeshit. I hope a few have the decency to stream their apoplexy so we can all have a good laugh as their heads explode.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 16, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> I keep expecting Sue Ryder to say "And now.....the Doctor!"



There's the real news of the day right there. Sue Barker marrying Shaun Ryder on the quiet. The hints were there when you look back.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

belboid said:


> As soon as the Doc starts explaining sciencey stuff - to _men_ no doubt - the MRA's on here, and elsewhere, are going to go absolutely apeshit. I hope a few have the decency to stream their apoplexy so we can all have a good laugh as their heads explode.


I love the ones going "Jane Bond". Lol. I have no interest in the Bond franchise, which I think is shite. But I find myself hoping for a similar casting there too. Just to annoy them.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 16, 2017)

An actual comment just read
"Another Wales Online article to promote an agenda. Simply designed to make people look like sexists. You grow up with something one way and enjoy it...being nostalgic for it doesn't make you a sexist. Would feminists (and Wales Online love to see Wonder Woman played by a man? "


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Even Capaldi sucked when the script sucked.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 16, 2017)

I do get the feeling a lot of people vociferously celebrating won't actually be watching it


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

belboid said:


> As soon as the Doc starts explaining sciencey stuff - to _men_ no doubt - the MRA's on here, and elsewhere, are going to go absolutely apeshit. I hope a few have the decency to stream their apoplexy so we can all have a good laugh as their heads explode.


Are you womansplaining to us how men react?


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I love the ones going "Jane Bond". Lol. I have no interest in the Bond franchise, which I think is shite. But I find myself hoping for a similar casting there too. Just to annoy them.


Jane bedding a fellow half her age would be worth all the other rubbish bits it would undoubtedly contain.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Tennent was the 'One Direction' of Doctor Who and matched everything you said.


I have _literally_ no idea what you're talking about. (Read this in a Chris Treager voice).


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Are you womansplaining to us how men react?


Oh dear oh dear.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 16, 2017)

I think Who should be a weird sod, like he was when I was a kid.

That's why I would have loved Zawe Ashton, or Joe Gilgun or Ayaode, who can all play oddballs admirably


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Sea Star (Jul 16, 2017)

Is this really Gromit or is this just a bad parody?


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 16, 2017)

D'wards said:


> I do get the feeling a lot of people vociferously celebrating won't actually be watching it


I don't


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2017)

Me - They can time travel 
Them - cool
Me - They have two hearts
Them - Cool
Me - They never die they re generate every season 
Them - wow, thats cool
Me - they have this sonic screwdriver thing
Them - sounds good
Me - oh and the characters played by a woman
Them - you fucking what mate?!?!!)?!


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> Is this really Gromit or is this just a bad parody?


I would have mentioned that there hasn't been a decent Doctor since Chris Eckleston.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

We all know where this PCnonsense is going to end up


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> I don't


I do get the feeling, though, that some people commenting had basically given up on Who in the last couple of seasons based on Moffat's shitty scripts and are now thinking "oh okay maybe this is a sign of something new and better". I'm one of those people.


----------



## A380 (Jul 16, 2017)

Well, All male SF fans are renowned for being open minded about such things:


----------



## B.I.G (Jul 16, 2017)

A380 said:


> Well, All male SF fans are renowned for being open minded about such things:



Both the trailer and the film for ghostbusters were awful. The script completely sold the four actors short.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 16, 2017)

The Express classy as ever by breaking this news with video of when Whittaker did a nude scene in something else.


----------



## Cloo (Jul 16, 2017)

We really liked the vibes from her in the short clip. I don't know her as haven't watched Broadchurch and actually pleased to have an actor not known to me.  Daughter v pleased about it.


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2017)

S☼I said:


> The Express classy as ever by breaking this news with video of when Whittaker did a nude scene in something else.



link please.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So I'm a "prick" am I because I don't want a character that I grew up with, and that was a huge part of my childhood, to be fucked about with? Fuck off
> 
> 
> I've no idea what an "MRA" even is..........
> ...



God you're such a trolling cunt. Bet you've got the trolling cunt playbook laid out in front of you, finger running down the page picking out the next pat line to spew, lol.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Er no. The important things were kept consistent.
> 
> 
> "Gender politics"? It's a fucking TV show character. The fact that you think that this has something to do with "gender politics" only goes to prove that this change has been made for exactly the reasons we all know it has.


 No. I said _your_ gender politics are absurd.  If you'd read the actual post of mine you quoted, you'd have seen that I was arguing that having a female doc was entirely consistent with who the character is, the concept of regeneration and several years of the show saying humans have very restrictive assumptions about ... everything. You seem to be proving them right.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

kittyP said:


> I liked Tennent.



Tennant > Smith.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I love the ones going "Jane Bond". Lol. I have no interest in the Bond franchise, which I think is shite. But I find myself hoping for a similar casting there too. Just to annoy them.



They're already doing their nut over the thought of Idris Elba as Bond.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

D'wards said:


> I do get the feeling a lot of people vociferously celebrating won't actually be watching it



I get the feeling you don't understand the Who fandom demographic.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

D'wards said:


> I think Who should be a weird sod, like he was when I was a kid.
> 
> That's why I would have loved Zawe Ashton, or Joe Gilgun or Ayaode, who can all play oddballs admirably



Or Olivia Colman, who would have been perfectly odd in every way.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Tennant > Smith.


Faint praise there.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2017)

D'wards said:


> Joe Gilgun


busy with Preacher. which needs to get better quicker after last weeks poor showing


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Or Olivia Colman, who would have been perfectly odd in every way.


I am amused and pleased today - she'll be a perfectly good Doc and it's a fine thing to see the bungle demographic spitting and snarling. But I can't see why they didn't go with Olivia Coleman, unless she did some dreadful screentest or something. Once they'd actually thought of her for the role and got her on the shortlist I literally can't think of a reason for not giving her the job. Too quirky?


----------



## marty21 (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> How else do you explain this nonsense then? Some of us have been following the show since probably before most of you were even born, and now we've just been crapped on from a great height. The character is MALE, has always been MALE, and should have stayed MALE.


The 1st Dr Who I can remember watching was Pertwee and I don't feel crapped on from a great height at all.


----------



## bogbrush (Jul 16, 2017)

I think Jodie Whittaker will bring a breath of fresh air to a stale series.  Can anyone else remember the tired old genre of UK police series before Anna Carteret was brought in to play 'Juliet Bravo'?   " I may be a woman -"  that was her catchphrase.  And that was true.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

.... blah, blah, political correctness gone mad, next thing they'll be banning Christmas Brexit ...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I am amused and pleased today - she'll be a perfectly good Doc and it's a fine thing to see the bungle demographic spitting and snarling. But I can't see why they didn't go with Olivia Coleman, unless she did some dreadful screentest or something. Once they'd actually thought of her for the role and got her on the shortlist I literally can't think of a reason for not giving her the job. Too quirky?



I guess there's a chance Colman didn't want it. 

If they were going to go with younger, traditionally pretty then I'd have preferred Hayley Atwell (whom I believe expressed an interest, albeit in an off-handed kind of way). She can do comedy, is a great actor, already beloved on the con circuit, and is just all round absolutely fantastic and amazing and wonderful.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

Saw this earlier:


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

Anyway, hope she doesn't play the fucking guitar.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I am amused and pleased today - she'll be a perfectly good Doc and it's a fine thing to see the bungle demographic spitting and snarling. But I can't see why they didn't go with Olivia Coleman, unless she did some dreadful screentest or something. Once they'd actually thought of her for the role and got her on the shortlist I literally can't think of a reason for not giving her the job. Too quirky?



Maybe she couldn't do it/didn't want it..?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Anyway, hope she doesn't play the fucking guitar.


On a tank.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 16, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> link please.


I will not
(Only saw it on my wife's twitter feed)


----------



## A380 (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2017)

S☼I said:


> I will not
> (Only saw it on my wife's twitter feed)



was but a joke.... already have them saved.


----------



## magneze (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So I'm a "prick" am I because I don't want a character that I grew up with, and that was a huge part of my childhood, to be fucked about with?


Yes


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 16, 2017)

Not seen such a backward reaction since the townsfolk of Rock Ridge got a new sherriff.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 16, 2017)

Imagine if the next 13 Dr Who's are all women , an average of 3 years in the role . I'd have to wait until I'm 91 until another bloke comes along


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## bogbrush (Jul 16, 2017)

I hope Mrs Contreras (some of the papers seem to have not heard she is married!) - will add an element of 'gravitas' to the series.   It may have started off as a cheesey  BBC childrens hour spacemen and cardboard monsters program, but it is now a flagship franchise and deals with issues - the fight against terrorism across space and time etc.

The allegation of 'tokenism' could be avoided if the New Doctor had a 'backing troupe' of other female time travellers.  Possibly, they could be from other parts of the country.  Scotland, ( or if that is too much of a cliche) Ireland or the North of England?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

"Well, we can discuss all that with the Doctor"
"I _am_ the Doctor"
(Sniggers ) "No, you're not."
"I'm sorry, I am a Time Lord from Gallifrey" 
"Now, come on, now. Just because we're from Earth, you think you can have fun with us."
"I assure you I am the Doctor"
"All right. The big thickos from Earth. But we're not as thick as we look."
"Why do you think I was driving the Tardis?"
"Look, you're a lovely girl, but I think we should talk to the Doctor."


----------



## ddraig (Jul 16, 2017)

A man as wonder woman
For balance sakes obviously


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

bogbrush said:


> I hope Mrs Contreras (some of the papers seem to have not heard she is married!) - will add an element of 'gravitas' to the series.   It may have started off as a cheesey  BBC childrens hour spacemen and cardboard monsters program, but it is now a flagship franchise and deals with issues - the fight against terrorism across space and time etc.
> 
> The allegation of 'tokenism' could be avoided if the New Doctor had a 'backing troupe' of other female time travellers.  Possibly, they could be from other parts of the country.  Scotland, ( or if that is too much of a cliche) Ireland or the North of England?


You know that actors don't tend to like changing their names. Not to mention plenty of other women don't do so upon marriage. 

And she is already from the north. The first from GOC.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 16, 2017)

Dr Who left the toilet seat up?


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 16, 2017)

jokes about new doctor who being rubbish at driving TARDIS are really starting to piss me off. Not so much by being sexist but just being so predictable and old and boring.


----------



## bogbrush (Jul 16, 2017)

All joking aside, I think this is a big improvement.  People are only assuming the worst because Judi Dench is so shit as  'M'.


----------



## A380 (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 16, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> I guess there's a chance Colman didn't want it.
> 
> If they were going to go with younger, traditionally pretty then I'd have preferred Hayley Atwell (whom I believe expressed an interest, albeit in an off-handed kind of way). She can do comedy, is a great actor, already beloved on the con circuit, and is just all round absolutely fantastic and amazing and wonderful.


Now you've got me wanting a Dr. Who/Agent Carter crossover. It could happen couldn't it....it should happen!!!


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> what is there in the character that means it has to be a man? this change is perfectly canon. I've been a lifelong fan, watched back during the interregnum stuff that hadn't aired in my lifetime. Anyway my seal of rassilon tattoo gives me the authority to declare this a good choice. Even the crap Baker agrees


Reddit's Bloody Bill?

[/stalking]


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2017)

I'm very disappointed by this casting decision FTR.

The best Doctors are Scottish.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I am amused and pleased today - she'll be a perfectly good Doc and it's a fine thing to see the bungle demographic spitting and snarling. But I can't see why they didn't go with Olivia Coleman, unless she did some dreadful screentest or something. Once they'd actually thought of her for the role and got her on the shortlist I literally can't think of a reason for not giving her the job. Too quirky?


I'm glad they didn't.  She annoys the hell out of me, and I've no idea why.  I'd have quite liked the Fleabag actor.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

Corax said:


> I'm glad they didn't.  She annoys the hell out of me, and I've no idea why.


Cause she has a face like a badger's arse?

Although she was ok in the Night Manager surprisingly.


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Cause she has a face like a badger's arse?


No.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 111446


Shows a fundamental misunderstanding of Doctor Who's time travel element.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 16, 2017)

Don't recall the video being posted. Sorry if it has.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

The Grauniad piece is vaguely interesting. Apparently Colman & PWB are too busy already.


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2017)

The writers are going to have to be really on their game to make this choice convincing.

There are going to be some really thorny obstacles to overcome.  Like if The Doctor needs to save the world by growing a beard or scratching their nards.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Cause she has a face like a badger's arse?
> 
> .


 FFS!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2017)

WellRounded said:


> It seems like most people who are pleased at the casting are pleased _because_ she is a woman.



I don't think I've ever seen this person in anything, but I'm pleased because a) not Kris Marshall, who is the worst thing possibly of all time and b) look at how sad and angry it's made so many dreadful idiots.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2017)

belboid said:


> The Grauniad piece is vaguely interesting. Apparently Colman & PWB are too busy already.



PWB?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2017)

D'wards said:


> Dr Who left the toilet seat up?



Ladies and Gentleman, Jim Davidson's warm up act.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So I'm a "prick" am I because I don't want a character that I grew up with, and that was a huge part of my childhood, to be fucked about with? Fuck off



Not at all. It's the other way round, you don't want the character to be played by someone female _because _you're a prick.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> PWB?


Phoebe Waller-Bridge


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not at all. It's the other way round, you don't want the character to be played by someone female _because _you're a prick.


The evidence is incontrovertible.

Those appalled: 

Piers Morgan
Katie Hopkins
The Daily Mail
All the other pricks


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't think I've ever seen this person in anything, but I'm pleased because a) not Kris Marshall, who is the worst thing possibly of all time and b) look at how sad and angry it's made so many dreadful idiots.



I'm not going to apologise for being pleased the 13th doctor is a woman. For me it sends the wrong message to find every other reason to be pleased than that. Being clear that it's important to fight for more high profile roles for women isn't something I'm ashamed of.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not at all. It's the other way round, you don't want the character to be played by someone female _because _you're a prick.


So what does that make you then? As someone who is apparently unable to cope with the fact that someone thinks that a male that character that's been around for 54 years should be played by a man. And responds to such an opinion with abuse. What does that make you?


Vintage Paw said:


> I'm not going to apologise for being pleased the 13th doctor is a woman. For me it sends the wrong message to find every other reason to be pleased than that. Being clear that it's important to fight for more high profile roles for women isn't something I'm ashamed of.


So "more high profile roles for women" means misappropriating great male characters and turning them into women does it?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2017)

Predictable guff.

Edit: I wrote that about the mail headline, but it applies just as well for the reply above me.


----------



## donkyboy (Jul 16, 2017)

The show is pants, but I like the idea of a female doctor. It might draw me into watching at least the first episode just to see how she to gets on.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> misappropriating great male characters and turning them into women does it?


List of occasions this has happened?

Or do you just mean this once, with a non-human, regenerating alien from a species that has already been established can change appearance, character, accent and sex?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So what does that make you then? As someone who is apparently unable to cope with the fact that someone thinks that a male that character that's been around for 54 years should be played by a man. And responds to such an opinion with abuse. What does that make you?
> 
> So "more high profile roles for women" means misappropriating great male characters and turning them into women does it?



It just means playing to a perception. And it is far easier to 'appropriate' than engage in a 'shoulda, coulda, woulda' debate.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

donkyboy said:


> The show is pants,


If that is young people speak for "the most important cultural phenomenon of our times", then I dig your bad self, or whatever is the correct form of address these days.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2017)

Oh Bungle73 even Gromit has been onside on this one so I don't hold out much hope for you.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So "more high profile roles for women" means misappropriating great male characters and turning them into women does it?


Hope so. None of this is precious. It's all fair game. I'm still enjoying the female Dr Watson in Elementary.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jul 16, 2017)




----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> List of occasions this has happened?
> 
> Or do you just mean this once, with a non-human, regenerating alien from a species that has already been established can change appearance, character, accent and sex?


Where has it been established that they can change sex? The Master doesn't count as that character has been jumping in and out of bodies that didn't belong to them for decades.



Beats & Pieces said:


> It just means playing to a perception. And it is far easier to 'appropriate' than engage in a 'shoulda, coulda, woulda' debate.



Where is the "debate" here? I've given my opinion, and the hoards he decided to shoot it down because they can't cope with it.

If people want high profile roles for woman they should go and create some, instead of insisting on a great male hero having a sex change.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> Hope so. None of this is precious. It's all fair game. I'm still enjoying the female Dr Watson in Elementary.



Considering that show is yanks "misappropriating" classic British, er, stuff, it is one of the best TV shows I have seen in a while


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So what does that make you then? As someone who is apparently unable to cope with the fact that someone thinks that a male that character that's been around for 54 years should be played by a man. And responds to such an opinion with abuse. What does that make you?
> 
> So "more high profile roles for women" means misappropriating great male characters and turning them into women does it?


A couple of times now, I've put to you the notion that the Dr is _inherently_ open to becoming female - regeneration, numerous references to earthlings having very narrow ideas about things - and even if you wanted to descend into stereotypical descriptions, the doctor has rarely been archetypically 'male' (preference for non-violence etc.).  Even more so, the show has often sent up macho posturing, even in the doc himself.  Pretty much top of the list of longstanding roles taken by male actors that would be open to change.

So, what have you got, why is the doctor an inherently male character?


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 can you break down why you are so upset by this? 
I mean other than it doesn't fit what you liked as a kid? 
Why do you think in this time that the Dr is so inconceivable as a woman? 
I am actually genuinely interested. Because I can't work it out.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2017)

kittyP said:


> Considering that show is yanks "misappropriating" classic British, er, stuff, it is one of the best TV shows I have seen in a while


That's not the same thing though. That is creating a completely new show with essentially new characters that only draw inspiration from the original source. Where as what we're talking about here is taking an existing character, in an existing and in production programme, and suddenly turning them into a woman.


----------



## Corax (Jul 16, 2017)

Also, Joanna Lumley.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Where is the "debate" here? I've given my opinion, and the hoards he decided to shoot it down because they can't cope with it.
> .


That's it though, you haven't explained it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Where has it been established that they can change sex?


on the programme.  



> The Master doesn't count


Because you don't want her to.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2017)

hordes


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> hordes


Monstrous regiments of timelords.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2017)

Wilf said:


> A couple of times now, I've put to you the notion that the Dr is _inherently_ open to becoming female - regeneration, numerous references to earthlings having very narrow ideas about things



That's only cropped up in the past few episodes. And we all now know why that was (and what I was fearing at the time). Because they wanted to lay the ground for what has happened now, and put the idea into people's minds.



> So, what have you got, why is the doctor an inherently male character?


Why is any male character inherently male? Because that is the way they were created.



kittyP said:


> Bungle73 can you break down why you are so upset by this?
> I mean other than it doesn't fit what you liked as a kid?
> Why do you think in this time that the Dr is so inconceivable as a woman?
> I am actually genuinely interested. Because I can't work it out.


For the same reasons changing a fundamental characteristic of any popular and long running character and pretending that it's the same person would upset people.


----------



## kittyP (Jul 16, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> For the same reasons changing a fundamental characteristic of any popular and long running character and pretending that it's the same person would upset people.



A show that has been running for 50 years has to fundamentally change to stay relevant doesn't it? 
You as an older man may not like it but to appeal to people enough to keep it on the air, it has to make big changes. 
As the programme has already.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 16, 2017)

edit, fucked up the quotes, was in reply to Bungle73 


> That's only cropped up in the past few episodes. And we all now know why that was (and what I was fearing at the time). Because they wanted to lay the ground for what has happened now, and put the idea into people's minds.


 Not at all. I don't mean just in terms of gender, the idea that earthlings have a narrow perspective on things and might sometimes benefit from different perspectives has been a constant for decades.




> Why is any male character inherently male? Because that is the way they were created.


 There's just no logic of any sort to that. The first doc was an elderly man with pretty much zero empathy and no sense of humour.  You presumably approve that they changed those things but not  gender? why?  Was the doc's ethnicity equally set in stone? Would you be mounting a harrumphing rearguard about that today if they'd announced a black doc?




> For the same reasons changing a fundamental characteristic of any popular and long running character and pretending that it's the same person would upset people.


 Again, complete lack of logic, nobody is pretending it's the same person, that's the _point_ about regeneration.   It makes someone different, even if they are playing the same role. So, again, why so hung up about genitals?


----------



## strung out (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Where has it been established that they can change sex? The Master doesn't count as that character has been jumping in and out of bodies that didn't belong to them for decades.


Over six years ago in _The Doctor's Wife_. Fucking hell, call yourself a fan?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> So what does that make you then? As someone who is apparently unable to cope with the fact that someone thinks that a male that character that's been around for 54 years should be played by a man. And responds to such an opinion with abuse. What does that make you?



You know this is a TV show about a time travelling wizard who lives in a magic box right?

Even within the internal logic of the show, such as it is, it has already been established that Time Lords and many other races have a very different relationship to and understanding of gender compared with 21st century humans.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 17, 2017)

Er of course it's supposed to be the same person. It's always been the same person. Regeneration brings a new face, and a new personalty, but underneath the person is still fundamentally the same. Each regeneration brings a superficial change, but the Doctor's core character always stays the same in how he deals with people, how he solves problems, and how he is always seeking to right wrongs.



kittyP said:


> A show that has been running for 50 years has to fundamentally change to stay relevant doesn't it?
> You as an older man may not like it but to appeal to people enough to keep it on the air, it has to make big changes.
> As the programme has already.


Not like this.

Funny how everyone was up in arms when they made the character half-human in 1996, yet that was nothing compared with this.


----------



## belboid (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> That's only cropped up in the past few episodes. And we all now know why that was (and what I was fearing at the time). Because they wanted to lay the ground for what has happened now, and put the idea into people's minds.
> 
> 
> Why is any male character inherently male? Because that is the way they were created.
> ...


You don't understand what 'inherent' means. Or you have failed to satisfactorily explain why this particular characteristic is inherent. The character was created with all sorts of characteristics (as is traditional). Where has it been explicitly stated that the human notion of gender has been unalterable?


----------



## BemusedbyLife (Jul 17, 2017)

it has been established on 2 occasions that Time Lords (who aren't human)  can change sex when they regenerate, as well as the Master/Missy during the double episode that saw the end of Clara he shot a fellow male Time Lord (the General) who then regenerated as female saying that the last incarnation was the only time he had been male.
I've enjoyed watching all the Doctors since Ecceleston with Capaldi being my favourite (My Dad insists that Tom Baker was the best but that was before my time) 
Maybe it will be rubbish with a female Doctor but maybe it will be great let's give it a chance.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Funny how everyone was up in arms when they made the character half-human in 1996, yet that was nothing compared with this.


so, let's get this straight. Changing the species - is less of a big deal to you than just changing the gender?

I find that very odd considering the last 5 years of my life!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Funny how everyone was up in arms when they made the character half-human in 1996, yet that was nothing compared with this.




"that was nothing compared with this".


----------



## Wilf (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Er of course it's supposed to be the same person. It's always been the same person. Regeneration brings a new face, and a new personalty, but underneath the person is still fundamentally the same. Each regeneration brings a superficial change, but the Doctor's core character always stays the same in how he deals with people, how he solves problems, and how he is always seeking to right wrongs.


 So, regeneration brings 'a new personality' but is a 'superficial change'?   Well, leaving aside the use of words, would you say William Hartnell's grumpy granddad was the 'same person' as David Tennant's hyperactive gurner?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 17, 2017)

I'm reminded of this scene from one of my favourite movies:


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2017)

Wilf said:


> So, regeneration brings 'a new personality' but is a 'superficial change'?   Well, leaving aside the use of words, would you say William Hartnell's grumpy granddad was the 'same person' as David Tennant's hyperactive gurner?


"I was so much older then; I'm younger than that now".


----------



## Wilf (Jul 17, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> so, let's get this straight. Changing the species - is less of a big deal to you than just changing the gender?
> 
> I find that very odd considering the last 5 years of my life!


Bungle does performance poetry


----------



## kittyP (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Er of course it's supposed to be the same person. It's always been the same person. Regeneration brings a new face, and a new personalty, but underneath the person is still fundamentally the same. Each regeneration brings a superficial change, but the Doctor's core character always stays the same in how he deals with people, how he solves problems, and how he is always seeking to right wrong



I have definitely seen how previously, whilst staying the same the Dr has fundamentally changed in their outlook and behaviour. 

Capaldi especially stating "Look at this face. It is covered in lines. But I did't do the frowning. Who frowned me this face?". 
He went on to explain that he had taken on the older body to remind him of who he needed to be as a person. 
The same could be said of the regeneration being female.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle, if you'd come out and said you don't like it because you were used to it being a bloke, you'd have liked it to stay how it was, you'd have taken some stick but I would personally have respected that. It's this pretence that the doc is _inherently_ male and that regenerations only make superficial changes that is pure bullshit. You haven't managed to marshal (pun intended) a _single argument_ as to why the doc is inherently male. Why not cut your losses and admit that?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jul 17, 2017)

Is this of any _real_ importance - except for those concerned with the slippery issue of '_representation_'? No. But it does serve to provide a distraction from issues of far more importance. It is a bloody TV show.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 17, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Is this of any _real_ importance - except for those concerned with the slippery issue of '_representation_'? No. But it does serve to provide a distraction from issues of far more importance. It is a bloody TV show.


I don't think it's particularly important, having a woman play a regenerating alien shouldn't be that noteworthy in 2017. It's the _reaction to it_, on this thread and beyond, that says something about the world.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jul 17, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I don't think it's particularly important, having a woman play a regenerating alien shouldn't be that noteworthy in 2017. It's the _reaction to it_, on this thread and beyond, that says something about the world.



I absolutely agree, and the _reaction_ (here and elsewhere) will undoubtedly provide enough for consideration by future historians.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 17, 2017)

I am another poster who's first memory of Dr Who is Patrick Troughton, and I have no problems with a female doctor, I'll judge her on her acting, not her gender.



Bungle73 said:


> So I'm a "prick" am I because I don't want a character that I grew up with, and that was a huge part of my childhood, to be fucked about with? Fuck off



Have you time travelled back to the 70s?


----------



## kabbes (Jul 17, 2017)

Aside from the various times already mentioned on the show that it has been unambiguously stated that regenerations can change a timelord's sex, I think it's hard to argue that it is not now definitively canon that the Doctor's regeneration can change his sex.

That's the thing with fiction.  Nothing about it is written until it is written, and then it IS written.  When is it established the Doctor can be female?  Er, now.  Even if nothing else so far has convinced you, then now it is most _definitely_ established that the Doctor can be female.


----------



## albionism (Jul 17, 2017)

It's been interesting watching the way
Bro-Flakes and Shitlords have reacted
to this news,


----------



## BigTom (Jul 17, 2017)

I just wanted to say, those of you who've not seen Jodie Whittaker in anything, watch Attack The Block, it's a absolutely brilliant sci fi /monster movie.

As for the doctor being a woman, it's basically irrelevant to me - good to see more women in high profile roles, enjoy the apoplexy it causes in idiots but all that really matters is how she plays the doctor and whether she gets some decent scripts. Exactly the same as any other actor.


----------



## not a trot (Jul 17, 2017)

Why can't the doctor have a partner and have kids then we all know who the next doctor is in future.


----------



## Chz (Jul 17, 2017)

Seriously, guys? _Nine_ pages since yesterday afternoon?


----------



## A380 (Jul 17, 2017)

It's a made up story.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2017)

A380 said:


> It's a made up story.


I _beg _your pardon?  It's a documentary.  (Except for the period of inaccurate docu-drama in the 80s, in which basically all but the appearance of the Doctor's regenerations misremembered, being second hand accounts based on badly garbled  testimony).


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2017)

BigTom said:


> I just wanted to say, those of you who've not seen Jodie Whittaker in anything, watch Attack The Block, it's a absolutely brilliant sci fi /monster movie.


My daughter mentioned that yesterday.  I'll have to check it out.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

A380 said:


> It's a made up story.


The bible is just a story and that doesn't even have its own Saturday night prime time slot.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Regeneration brings a new face, and a new personalty, but underneath the person is still fundamentally the same.



I think we'd all agree that a person's physical appearance isn't fundamentally who they are* but I'm interested in this suggestion that a person's personality is similarly superficial. What is it that you're saying is underneath facial appearance and personality that constitutes what we _really _are?

(*although in terms of our neurological functioning face recognition is quite significant to how we_ know _a person - suggesting that we've all got over an in-built prejudice long before now if we accept that the Doctor is the same person despite all of the regenerations so far)


----------



## Sprocket. (Jul 17, 2017)

The gender of the Doctor is not the problem it's the quality of the writing that will be the biggest challenge to the continuation of the programme.
I personally welcome the change to a female doctor, I hope it is successful.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> If people want high profile roles for woman they should go and create some, instead of insisting on a great male hero having a sex change.



A great male hero?

It's a fucking kids' tv show!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2017)

ElizabethofYork said:


> It's a fucking kids' tv show!


No. It. Is. Not.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 17, 2017)

oops.  Sorry.


----------



## The Octagon (Jul 17, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 111460



Would it have been that hard for them to have used "ExterMENate"? Standards are slipping, etc....

Never heard of the actor until yesterday tbh (even though I've seen Attack The Block, she was fairly forgettable compared to some of the other characters), and still think Hayley Atwell would have been a far better choice, but the more important role is that of the showrunner / writers, so if the material is better than it has been for years she may stand a chance.

I saw a comment earlier that seemed to sum it up:



> This change will be roundly applauded or derided by thousands of people who have no intention of watching either way.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 17, 2017)

The outrage on Facebook is quite amusing.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

Sprocket. said:


> The gender of the Doctor is not the problem it's the quality of the writing that will be the biggest challenge to the continuation of the programme.
> I personally welcome the change to a female doctor, I hope it is successful.


I agree with the first part. I reserve judgement on the second part. It's kind of dependant on the first part.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 17, 2017)

Not really into Dr. Who but I find it depressing that *still* in this day we have to have a omgz 'a woman' conversation, like it should be anything other than a good thing for a female to take up major established 'male' roles (or person of colour, or gay, or disabled or whatever for that matter).

I mean it's embarrassing to even see some people on these boards people can't handle it. Remember when Craig was announced as the new James Bond some people people were such cry babies saying 'nooo he's blonde haired so can't be Bond'. Just GTF you miserable dinosaurs.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> If people want high profile roles for woman they should go and create some, instead of insisting on a great male hero having a sex change.


That's probably the first point of yours I agree with. 

Ghostbusters. Yay you made an all female lead comedy movie. You had to do it off the back of something men had already made popular. 

Female Watson: Yay well done being second fiddle to an already established male role. Watson is irrelevant and could be a crime fighting cat and people would still watch it. 

Bones. Now that should be celebrated... even if she has ripped off Quincy.


----------



## heinous seamus (Jul 17, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Billy no-mates, raging on the internet in his pants in his mum's basement just needs to grow up is all.



Hey, there's no need to bring me into this.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> Not really into Dr. Who but I find it depressing that *still* in this day we have to have a omgz 'a woman' conversation, like it should be anything other than a good thing for a female to take up major established 'male' roles (or person of colour, or gay, or disabled or whatever for that matter).
> 
> I mean it's embarrassing to even see some people on these boards people can't handle it. Remember when Craig was announced as the new James Bond some people people were such cry babies saying 'nooo he's blonde haired so can't be Bond'. Just GTF you miserable dinosaurs.


That's human nature. They hate change for a large part. 

A black James Bond would be a small change of pigment. People would moan slightly. 
A black James Bond who talks and acts like someone from The Wire instead of a posh English Eton boy!!! They'd moan even more. 

A black woman Bond who now talks about feelings and babies n shit. The change is so extreme from the language and behaviour of before that it's not really Bond any more is it. It's female Bond. Which is something else.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 17, 2017)

I don't believe it! Another job denied to white middle class men


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> I think we'd all agree that a person's physical appearance isn't fundamentally who they are* but I'm interested in this suggestion that a person's personality is similarly superficial. What is it that you're saying is underneath facial appearance and personality that constitutes what we _really _are?
> 
> (*although in terms of our neurological functioning face recognition is quite significant to how we_ know _a person - suggesting that we've all got over an in-built prejudice long before now if we accept that the Doctor is the same person despite all of the regenerations so far)


Inner life might be the answer to who we really are. I'd say autistic people are very familiar with there being a mismatch between perceived personality and who we feel we really are. And when the real you comes out via technology, as computers help autistic people to come out of themselves, then you have to consider that there really is an inner self below the personality that is on show to others. I think so anyway.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> I don't believe it! Another job denied to white middle class men


Chances are the next doctor will be a populist Nazi though


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> Inner life might be the answer to who we really are. I'd say autistic people are very familiar with there being a mismatch between perceived personality and who we feel we really are. And when the real you comes out via technology, as computers help autistic people to come out of themselves, then you have to consider that there really is an inner self below the personality that is on show to others. I think so anyway.



Fair enough to suggest that the Doctor has some inner-self personality that remains unchanged throughout all the apparent changes in visible personality, and that fans would be justified in outrage if that were interfered with. For example, depending on incarnation he (/she) can demonstrate a dislike for Daleks in a range of ways from sarcastic put-downs to wobbly-lipped sincerity to blowing up the fucking lot of them, but if the new Doctor no longer gave a fuck whether they destroyed planet Earth and enslaved humankind it might feel like a betrayal of that inner character.

But in the comment I quoted Bungle seems to link this fundamental character with the Doctor's biological maleness - or even (given that he's fine with all the other biological varieties the Doctor has exhibited over the years) to say that it depends exclusively on his being a man. So you can change anything else about the character's physical and personal manifestation (although I don't think Bungle ever answered the question about whether a black man would've been OK...) but if you mess with his dangly bits you've unacceptably altered who he is.

I don't want to put words in your mouth, AuntiStella, but I'm imagining you wouldn't go along with that?


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2017)

Gromit said:


> It's female Bond. Which is something else.



No it's not, it's a variation on the same thing. The clue's in the phrase 'female Bond'.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> No it's not, it's a variation on the same thing. The clue's in the phrase 'female Bond'.


It had better be different. Otherwise it's a woman being a man. Might as well just keep it as a man if that is the case.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> My daughter mentioned that yesterday.  I'll have to check it out.


its ok. The heroes are basically muggers though and thats never really addressed.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 17, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> its ok. The heroes are basically muggers though and thats never really addressed.


That was my problem with it. I was on the side of the alien


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> But in the comment I quoted Bungle seems to link this fundamental character with the Doctor's biological maleness - or even (given that he's fine with all the other biological varieties the Doctor has exhibited over the years) to say that it depends exclusively on his being a man. So you can change anything else about the character's physical and personal manifestation (although I don't think Bungle ever answered the question about whether a black man would've been OK...) but if you mess with his dangly bits you've unacceptably altered who he is.
> 
> I don't want to put words in your mouth, AuntiStella, but I'm imagining you wouldn't go along with that?



No I wouldn't. clearly I'm the same person I used to be and my personality has changed too, and yet, I remain consistently me.

It's an odd position  that Bungle is trying to defend. It seems to be based on one that insists that women and men are fundamentally more different than timelords and humans or old people and young people, etc.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 said:


> Where has it been established that they can change sex? The Master doesn't count as that character has been jumping in and out of bodies that didn't belong to them for decades.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It isn't a sex change  Dr Who is an alien, not a man or ladyperson.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 17, 2017)

Bungle73 in fighting mood...



Spoiler: Bungle in fighting mood...


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

marty21 said:


> It isn't a sex change  Dr Who is an alien, not a man or ladyperson.


i predict at no point will they ever discuss the sex of DrWho. It's appearance and gender identity that's changed. Do we even know if Time Lords have sex? Might they not have out evolved it a long time ago? (not a big Dr Who fan, sorry)


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> i predict at no point will they ever discuss the sex of DrWho. It's appearance and gender identity that's changed. Do we even know if Time Lords have sex? Might they not have out evolved it a long time ago? (not a big Dr Who fan, sorry)


1. Hope you are right. Doubt you are. 
2. Appearance has changed (Earth is used to this by now). Funny how you are assuming gender id has changed. You discounting the possibility of this Doctor being a trans man in a female body. If all things are possible so is that. 
3. Yes the Time Lords have sex. 
The Doctor has had sex with men and women. The Doctor has even had children.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> Do we even know if Time Lords have sex?


yeah he's married to Alex Kingston and i'm 99% sure they bang


----------



## Wilf (Jul 17, 2017)

Spoiler: Bungle in fighting mood...


----------



## T & P (Jul 17, 2017)

First they make a woman the leading character in a Star Wars film, and now this. There'll be female train drivers next, Bungle73


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

Gromit said:


> 1. Hope you are right. Doubt you are.
> 2. Appearance has changed (Earth is used to this by now). Funny how you are assuming gender id has changed. You discounting the possibility of this Doctor being a trans man in a female body. If all things are possible so is that.


it is possible - i just can't see the BBC ever going there. They struggle just doing a basic, human, every day  trans character, so good luck to them if that's how they decide to go. 



> “The first thing he said to me, putting his arms up as if I was abut to strike him, [was], ‘Didn’t make any money from Night of the Living Dead,'” Matheson recalled. “‘Homage’ means I get to steal you work. He’s a nice guy, though. I don’t harbor any animosity toward him.” (Romero later confirmed this story: “I confessed to him that I basically ripped the idea off from I Am Legend. He forgave me because we didn’t make any money. He said, ‘Well, as long as you didn’t get rich, it’s okay.'”


children does not necessarily equal sex in science fiction (or fantasy).

I still can't see Dr Who's genitals and reproductive organs ever being discussed on what is a kids show.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 17, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> I still can't see Dr Who's genitals and reproductive organs ever being discussed on what is a kids show.



It's not a kids show.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 17, 2017)

T & P said:


> First they make a woman the leading character in a Star Wars film, and now this. There'll be female train drivers next, Bungle73


Stop it, stop it, leave the poor MAN alone!  Trainz is sacred ground.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah he's married to Alex Kingston and i'm 99% sure they bang


but is this ever overtly stated on the show? Or is just done as a nod and a wink to the adult viewers - loosely implied rather than stated.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's not a kids show.


OK - family show


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> but is this ever overtly stated on the show? Or is just done as a nod and a wink to the adult viewers - loosely implied rather than stated.


the above obvs. Its a family show. for ages 6-death


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

if Dr Who was realistic the British government would refuse to recognise her new gender until she divorced River Song and submitted herself to a panel of faceless bureaucrats with a foot deep pile of documentation to prove she was who she clearly was.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> if Dr Who was realistic the British government would refuse to recognise her new gender until she divorced River Song and submitted herself to a panel of faceless bureaucrats with a foot deep pile of documentation to prove she was who she clearly was.


She isn't married to River Song as marriage is only valid till death parts em.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

you might be right Gromit  - i missed this. Apparently Missy said, "I've known him since he was a little girl". But that's full of possible interpretations.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2017)

Gromit said:


> It had better be different. Otherwise it's a woman being a man. Might as well just keep it as a man if that is the case.



This is silly. It would be a woman playing a character formerly played by a man. Of course it had better be different, and I don't see any reason to doubt that it would be: each Bond has been, to some extent. But it would still be a variation on a character that already exists. Otherwise it wouldn't be Bond, it would be a new character.

All this applies to female Doctor too.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> i predict at no point will they ever discuss the sex of DrWho. It's appearance and gender identity that's changed. Do we even know if Time Lords have sex? Might they not have out evolved it a long time ago? (not a big Dr Who fan, sorry)



I predict what they'll do is script a bunch of smirky but slightly oblique references to it, none of which are nearly as clever as the writers think they are and which will be grating on all of us by about 3m into the second episode of the next series.


----------



## lazythursday (Jul 17, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> I predict what they'll do is script a bunch of smirky but slightly oblique references to it, none of which are nearly as clever as the writers think they are and which will be grating on all of us by about 3m into the second episode of the next series.


I think that's what we would have got with Moffat in charge, I'm hopeful that the new guy will be a bit more subtle. I think it would be probably sensible if there's a bit of a time jump after the Christmas episode so we don't have all the post-regeneration stuff. Introduce the new characters who then happen to meet the new Doctor, who doesn't ever really remark upon the change, unless she runs into past characters at some point.


----------



## belboid (Jul 17, 2017)

Not having _any _reaction post regeneration would be weird, they always make some comment (at least in New Who)


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 17, 2017)

They should have a special guest for post regeneration reaction.



Bungle73 ?


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> They should have a special guest for post regeneration reaction.
> 
> Bungle73 ?


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> They should have a special guest for post regeneration reaction.
> 
> 
> 
> Bungle73 ?



He could pop up in a branch of John Lewis, sell her some pot pourri and throw cushions for the Tardis.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> He could pop up in a branch of John Lewis, sell her some pot pourri and throw cushions for the Tardis.


and ask, "need help parking that, TARDIS, love?"


----------



## D'wards (Jul 17, 2017)

I wonder if this will effect the decision on the new bond? 
The Brocollis may see this as the sacrificial lamb so they can carry on with a white posh man as usual.
Also the BBC is at the forefront of political correctness and are not in it for the money, a private company may be more risk averse if it may mean less profits.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

D'wards said:


> I wonder if this will effect the decision on the new bond?
> The Brocollis may see this as the sacrificial lamb so they can carry on with a white posh man as usual.
> Also the BBC is at the forefront of political correctness and are not in it for the money, a private company may be more risk averse if it may mean less profits.


Reads that you aren't pro female but more anti posh white men. 

Perhaps you could have a word with posh white Ian Fleming who supposedly loosely based the character around his own posh white spy days.


----------



## The Octagon (Jul 17, 2017)

D'wards said:


> I wonder if this will effect the decision on the new bond?
> The Brocollis may see this as the sacrificial lamb so they can carry on with a white posh man as usual.
> Also the BBC is at the forefront of political correctness and are not in it for the money, a private company may be more risk averse if it may mean less profits.



I don't really agree with the comparison to Bond to be honest.

Bond is played by male actors because the character is the epitome of hyper-masculinity, he's misogynistic yet irresistible to women, self-destructive, unnecessarily violent and groomed specifically from the section of society that would never consider a woman for such a closed shop job.

The Doctor is a character that is less reliant on such a specific background or tropes, in fact difference in personality is encouraged between the various incarnations, hence why this shouldn't be an issue.

Plus alien, obvs.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2017)

D'wards said:


> I wonder if this will effect the decision on the new bond?
> The Brocollis may see this as the sacrificial lamb so they can carry on with a white posh man as usual.
> Also the BBC is at the forefront of political correctness and are not in it for the money, a private company may be more risk averse if it may mean less profits.



OR it might open the floodgates. Before we know it women might being be considered for ANY acting roles, regardless of whether the plot specifically requires the character to have tits. The horror.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Reads that you aren't pro female but more anti posh white men.



What's wrong with that?


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

D'wards said:


> Also the BBC is at the forefront of political correctness and are not in it for the money, a private company may be more risk averse if it may mean less profits.


are the BBC not in it for the money? BBC - BBC Worldwide announces record returns to the BBC - Media Centre


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 17, 2017)

D'wards said:


> I wonder if this will effect the decision on the new bond?
> The Brocollis may see this as the sacrificial lamb so they can carry on with a white posh man as usual.
> Also the BBC is at the forefront of political correctness and are not in it for the money, a private company may be more risk averse if it may mean less profits.



Who needs a female Bond, when we already have Atomic Blonde:

Atomic Blonde | Movie Site & Trailer | July 28, 2017


----------



## felixthecat (Jul 17, 2017)

The Octagon said:


> I don't really agree with the comparison to Bond to be honest.
> 
> Bond is played by male actors because the character is the epitome of hyper-masculinity, he's misogynistic yet irresistible to women, self-destructive, unnecessarily violent and groomed specifically from the section of society that would never consider a woman for such a closed shop job.
> 
> ...



I agree. The Doctor changes entirely with each regeneration so it doesn't make any difference what gender or race the character is.

Bond otoh - no. It would be silly for the reasons The Octagon has listed above. I'm more miffed that there hasn't yet been a Black Widow film whilst the rest of the (male) Avenger characters have several each. That's sexism in a nutshell. Poor woman kicks arse with the rest of them but doesn't get to be the star of the show


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 17, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> the above obvs. Its a family show. for ages 6-death


Probably explains why I feel like one of the undead most mornings.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 17, 2017)

felixthecat said:


> I agree. The Doctor changes entirely with each regeneration so it doesn't make any difference what gender or race the character is.
> 
> Bond otoh - no. It would be silly for the reasons The Octagon has listed above. I'm more miffed that there hasn't yet been a Black Widow film whilst the rest of the (male) Avenger characters have several each. That's sexism in a nutshell. Poor woman kicks arse with the rest of them but doesn't get to be the star of the show



Marvel Black Widow Solo Movie Coming After Avengers: Infinity War


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 17, 2017)

D'wards said:


> I wonder if this will effect the decision on the new bond?
> The Brocollis may see this as the sacrificial lamb so they can carry on with a white posh man as usual.
> Also the BBC is at the forefront of political correctness and are not in it for the money, a private company may be more risk averse if it may mean less profits.



Having a female lead isn't necessarily as recipe for not making money:



> Another day, another milestone for Patty Jenkins' _Wonder Woman._
> 
> Today, the superhero film will become the third-biggest Warner Bros. release of all time in North America — not accounting for inflation — leapfrogging the final Harry Potter film, 2011's _Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows: Part 2_.
> 
> ...



Box Office Milestone: 'Wonder Woman' Passes Final 'Harry Potter' Pic

What matters more is the story and writing.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Perhaps you could have a word with posh white Ian Fleming who supposedly loosely based the character around his own posh white spy days.



Perhaps not, given that he died not long after the franchise based around his character began, and it's now outlived the context of his own posh white spy days by more than half a century. Today's spy context is obviously not Fleming's, and MI6 is less interested than it once was in recruiting posh white men when what they need is people who can blend in and speak to people in their own language in China or the Arabian peninsula. 

The secret to enduring appeal of a work of fiction or fictional character surely _is_ it's ability to outlive its original context. Otherwise Hamlet would have been stale and fallen out of favour pretty much when people stopped living in castles and ensuring royal succession by means of stabbing.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Perhaps not, given that he died not long after the franchise based around his character began, and it's now outlived the context of his own posh white spy days by more than half a century. Today's spy context is obviously not Fleming's, and MI6 is less interested than it once was in recruiting posh white men when what they need is people who can blend in and speak to people in their own language in China or the Arabian peninsula.
> 
> The secret to enduring appeal of a work of fiction or fictional character surely _is_ it's ability to outlive its original context. Otherwise Hamlet would have been stale and fallen out of favour pretty much when people stopped living in castles and ensuring royal succession by means of stabbing.


Which is why Downtown Abbey is moving to a council estate for its next series.


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Which is why Downtown Abbey is moving to a council estate for its next series.



In 50 or so years' time, if DA is still going strong and adhering to exactly the same format by then, that'll be a great comeback.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 17, 2017)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Marvel Black Widow Solo Movie Coming After Avengers: Infinity War


The world's crying out for a superhero movie with a strong female lead who is not a supporter of Isreali occupation or invasion.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 17, 2017)

The Octagon said:


> I don't really agree with the comparison to Bond to be honest.
> 
> Bond is played by male actors because the character is the epitome of hyper-masculinity, he's misogynistic yet irresistible to women, self-destructive, unnecessarily violent and groomed specifically from the section of society that would never consider a woman for such a closed shop job.
> 
> ...



Interestingly the filmakers found the hypermasculinity and some of Bonds other character traits such bullshit they considered reworking stories to reduce those elements even further and even considered a woman in the role.

Also The Doctor's appearance is explained within the show. He regenerates. Most characters do not recognise him when they first meet a new incarnation and when they do iit is not because of his appearance. The suspension of disbelief is about space magic. Plausability is not an issue.

With Bond it is different as an audience we are supposed to assume he is the same person (unconfirmed and fucking stupid if you think about it for a second theories about a codename aside). Characters meet Bond and recognise him all the time whether he is played by Connery or some other guy. We as an audience know he is played by a different actor, looks different and acts different but we suspend disbelief because of something external to the fictional universe. As long as that is the same character with similar origins and outlooks we can believe it. Daniel Craig's Bond was ruined for me when in Skyfall it went from a reboot/origin story to a film with Aston Martins with ejector seats. It was a different story with similar characters until that point. Once that fucking car turned up despite all those warm nostalgic feelings the series lost something for me. Bond both got his licence to kill a few years ago and has been killing Spectre agents since the sixties. Fuck off. To make a similar change with Bond as has happened with you'd need some Die another day level shit to explain it or a reboot. I'd prefer the later. You could even have multiple Bonds on the go like Sherlocks.

I'd prefer a reboot. Idris Elba or a woman would make more sense as Peter Cushing than Jodie Whitaker.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jul 17, 2017)

I have been  against a female doctor  since its been brought up, in my head it was always not going to work  but after watching the last series and with them announcing Jodie whittaker I find myself more interested in how she will play the doctor than I thought I would be.  My main worry with who is whether chibnall will do a good job as from what I have seen of whittakers work she is more than capable of doing an excellent job in the role.


----------



## D'wards (Jul 17, 2017)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Having a female lead isn't necessarily as recipe for not making money:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Of course - the Alien films demonstrate that as much as anything. But changing a well loved character just might be.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Interestingly the filmakers found the hypermasculinity and some of Bonds other character traits such bullshit they considered reworking stories to reduce those elements even further and even considered a woman in the role.
> 
> Also The Doctor's appearance is explained within the show. He regenerates. Most characters do not recognise him when they first meet a new incarnation and when they do iit is not because of his appearance. The suspension of disbelief is about space magic. Plausability is not an issue.
> 
> ...


I want Daniel Craig to play it forever... 
But with better scripts than Skyfall. 
I kinda suspected it would be sucky when I heard Adele's sucky attempt at a theme tune.

The better the theme tune the better the Bond movie. Which is why Live and Let Die is the all time best.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 17, 2017)

Time for some bingo...


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

cupid_stunt said:


> Time for some bingo...


Time? Rather late ain't you? We've already had all them.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2017)

I'd love to see the Beeb do a version of John Eyre by the way.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 17, 2017)

Poll: Are you happy with Jodie Whittaker’s Casting? | Doctor Who TV


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 17, 2017)

Gromit said:


> That's probably the first point of yours I agree with.
> 
> Ghostbusters. Yay you made an all female lead comedy movie. You had to do it off the back of something men had already made popular.
> 
> ...



You're gonna do your nut when you hear about these Shakespeare plays.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2017)

Gromit said:


> That's human nature


this is the laziest cop-out argument in the world btw. Human nature when invoked in the context you have literally just stands for 'how I view the world and the assumptions I make based on my own lived experience'


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 17, 2017)

This driving/parking the tardis stuff is amusing - all these twats thinking they're being funny _ironically_ or not, when it's long established that the doctor can't drive the tardis well in the first place because they never learned and are a bit shit and actually river song was the one who could drive her properly.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> This driving/parking the tardis stuff is amusing - all these twats thinking they're being funny _ironically_ or not, when it's long established that the doctor can't drive the tardis well in the first place because they never learned and are a bit shit and actually river song was the one who could drive her properly.


he stole it originally and its never worked correctly since. Lore has it that this is why the chameleon circuit is stuck and the psychic bond is imperfect for them. They need new roundels for the christmas ep as well, I am bored with the current ones


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 17, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> this is the laziest cop-out argument in the world btw. Human nature when invoked in the context you have literally just stands for 'how I view the world and the assumptions I make based on my own lived experience'



"+ I am unwilling to accept that that frame could be anything less than perfect in any way at all so I have no need to be open to challenging it"


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 17, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> he stole it originally and its never worked correctly since. Lore has it that this is why the chameleon circuit is stuck and the psychic bond is imperfect for them. They need new roundels for the christmas ep as well, I am bored with the current ones



What was the stuff with River driving it then? It worked fine for her. There was a whole bit about it.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> This driving/parking the tardis stuff is amusing - all these twats thinking they're being funny _ironically_ or not, when it's long established that the doctor can't drive the tardis well in the first place because they never learned and are a bit shit and actually river song was the one who could drive her properly.



I had exactly this argument with some nerk on Twitter last night who kept coming back with variations which ended in her crashing the TARDIS, so I blocked him. Tedious tosser!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> What was the stuff with River driving it then? It worked fine for her. There was a whole bit about it.


yeah I recall it vaguely. The lore is malleable ennit. Also wasn't that post rose/tardis bond? I could come up with a bollocks reason as to why that means river was able to fly the thing right. Not sure what yet but psychic bond/reset something.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 17, 2017)

Yeah, it was post Rose. She was at the wheel, giving the Doctor some classic River snark because she was driving it flawlessly and talked about how the Doctor was shit. There was something about how River knew how to drive it properly because she had the skill and had learned to or something, and that the Doctor had never learned like she had. I can't remember the specifics but that was the gist.


----------



## keybored (Jul 17, 2017)

Good news, Bungle...



To appease male fans, Doctor Who announces every Dalek will have visible penis


----------



## keybored (Jul 17, 2017)

The Mash does it better.

Having a female leader is simply not credible, confirms Labour

BBC decides Britain ‘not ready’ for Glaswegian Dalek


----------



## Santino (Jul 17, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Yeah, it was post Rose. She was at the wheel, giving the Doctor some classic River snark because she was driving it flawlessly and talked about how the Doctor was shit. There was something about how River knew how to drive it properly because she had the skill and had learned to or something, and that the Doctor had never learned like she had. I can't remember the specifics but that was the gist.


I thought he always left the hand break on.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Jul 17, 2017)

Santino said:


> I thought he always left the hand break on.



Because he liked the noise it made.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 17, 2017)

The TARDIS taught River to drive.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 17, 2017)

I think the worst thing is that the new doctor was credited as the thirteenth. Outrageous.


----------



## gosub (Jul 17, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Poll: Are you happy with Jodie Whittaker’s Casting? | Doctor Who TV


Seriously all she has done is snap a twig and pull a Hoodie down.  More evidence required


----------



## kabbes (Jul 17, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> What was the stuff with River driving it then? It worked fine for her. There was a whole bit about it.


Wasn't she in some way born of the tardis?  Conceived in it or something?


----------



## D'wards (Jul 17, 2017)

Guardian has just posted a comment article stating that Dr Who was always inherently sexist cos he's a male hero thus automatically alienates females.

On the fb page people are pissed off with this, including some women, who are annoyed their feminist credentials are being called into question cos they like Dr Who


----------



## kittyP (Jul 17, 2017)

I have been confused all along  
I thought River Song was the daughter or the Dr and... someone


----------



## kabbes (Jul 17, 2017)

kittyP said:


> I have been confused all along
> I thought River Song was the daughter or the Dr and... someone


No, Pond and Rory


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 17, 2017)

kittyP said:


> I have been confused all along
> I thought River Song was the daughter or the Dr and... someone



River is married to the Doctor, and is the daughter of his companions Amy and Rory.
Jenny is his daughter, who Tennant married, who is the daughter of Peter Davison.

Simple.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 17, 2017)

Can we have a diagram please?


----------



## kittyP (Jul 17, 2017)

I knew I was wrong


----------



## belboid (Jul 17, 2017)

A list of all the times Doctor Who (the show) has 'died' - as of 2013

Times Doctor Who Was Ruined Forever


----------



## Wilf (Jul 17, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> River is married to the Doctor, and is the daughter of his companions Amy and Rory.
> Jenny is his daughter, who Tennant married, who is the daughter of Peter Davison.
> 
> Simple.


That just sent me wiki-wards - Davison was born Peter Moffat, he changed his name because there was an existing actor of that name... who later went on to produce several episodes of Who when Davison was in it. 

Looks like Dr Jazzz was right, about ... _everything_.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 18, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> you might be right Gromit  - i missed this. Apparently Missy said, "I've known him since he was a little girl". But that's full of possible interpretations.


They have also stated that Hartnell was his first body, but then again they have also said there were many before that, but that was again contradicted by the regeneration limit. They have always done whatever they liked in Dr who. What about romanas regeneration? She could try on various regenerations like clothes in the space of minutes, then settled on someone she had seen before. No "I don't want to go" shit, and fireworks.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 18, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> River is married to the Doctor, and is the daughter of his companions Amy and Rory.
> Jenny is his daughter, who Tennant married, who is the daughter of Peter Davison.
> 
> Simple.


And Susan Foreman is his granddaughter, though it's not clear if her mother was Jenny, or if Susan was the child of a previous child. David Tennant implied she was the daughter of a previous child, though he was never very biguous. Ecclescake implied  Susan was dead, presumably in the time war, (when he spoke to Giaus from Merlin in the Empty Child). Although we later discover the Time Lords were not all killed no reunion with Susan or her parents has featured in an episode after that discovery, though it may have happened off screen.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 18, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> River is married to the Doctor, and is the daughter of his companions Amy and Rory.
> Jenny is his daughter, who Tennant married, who is the daughter of Peter Davison.
> 
> Simple.


Aye but the fucking happened in the TARDIS/time vortex this affected River and was enough of a change that it gave the Silence the opportunity to do their thing and make her all Time Lordish and into an assassin.

It has just been announced that Jenny is getting her own Big Finish audio range.


----------



## Corax (Jul 18, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> River is married to the Doctor, and is the daughter of his companions Amy and Rory.
> Jenny is his daughter, who Tennant married, who is the daughter of Peter Davison.
> 
> Simple.



Peter's brother being Big Break's Jim Davison, also starring John Virgo - who married David Tennant's Aunt.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Cause she has a face like a badger's arse?


No. Not permitted here. Stop.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 18, 2017)

So, where are we up to?

Scenario 1: thousand year old multi-regenerating alien with 2 hearts whose young companions turn out to be the parents of his wife, who was once played by someone who turns out to be the father of someone who marries somebody else who played him.
- Bungle: fine!

Scenario 2: latest regeneration acquires tits
- Bungle: No, no NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!  Wail, wail, wail, menz...


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 18, 2017)

i read somewhere else that it's been established that Timelords reproduce asexually - is this right? #confused


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 18, 2017)

AuntiStella said:


> i read somewhere else that it's been established that Timelords reproduce asexually - is this right? #confused


I could answer this but you'd still be confused. Lets say yes but there are exceptions.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 18, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> I could answer this but you'd still be confused. Lets say yes but there are exceptions.


eep! It's a minefield. Should have been paying attention I guess. My mate was massively into it when i was at school and so i picked up a fair amount but little of it made sense. Went to a few conventions but then my interest waned. Only picked up again a few years ago when my lodger moved in - who is also a massive Who fan.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 18, 2017)

Loom


> *Looms* were devices used by Time Lords to perpetuate their race in the wake of the Pythia's Curse. Unable to procreate sexually, the Time Lords had to rely on the Rassilon-invented devices to "weave" new life from genetic material. (PROSE: _Cat's Cradle: Time's Crucible_, _Lungbarrow_)
> 
> However, there were instances of womb-born children during the period where Looms were in use. Rassilon passed a decree that "only the Loom-born shall inherit the Legacy of Rassilon", and enforced this decree by wiping out the womb-born. (PROSE: _Cold Fusion_) There were later instances of womb-born Gallifreyans living amongst the Loom-born. (PROSE: _The Infinity Doctors_)


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 18, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> They have also stated that Hartnell was his first body, but then again they have also said there were many before that, but that was again contradicted by the regeneration limit. They have always done whatever they liked in Dr who. What about romanas regeneration? She could try on various regenerations like clothes in the space of minutes, then settled on someone she had seen before. No "I don't want to go" shit, and fireworks.



It's almost like they didn't sit down in 1963 and plan for every possible character and plot development that might prove desirable over a 55-year period.


----------



## Sea Star (Jul 18, 2017)

They make it up as they go along


----------



## Gromit (Jul 18, 2017)

editor said:


> No. Not permitted here. Stop.


Corax stated that she annoys the hell out of him.
I called bullshit on him judging the value of an actress simply because she doesn't fit the usual mold of having to be super attractive to work as an actress.
He refuted my assertion and so i dropped it as without his agreement i had no proof of his looks driven prejudice.

Why are you bringing it up 2 days later when it was dropped?
I would have been a hero had he confessed to my assertion and outed himself but instead you are casting me as a villain because i challenged him?


----------



## Corax (Jul 18, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Corax stated that she annoys the hell out of him.
> I called bullshit on him judging the value of an actress simply because she doesn't fit the usual mold of having to be super attractive to work as an actress.
> He refuted my assertion and so i dropped it as without his agreement i had no proof of his looks driven prejudice.
> 
> ...


You "called bullshit" on my "looks driven prejudice" did you?  Hmm.

This, ladies and gentleman, is what is commonly known as "projection" 

Also possibly an attempt at a smattering of distraction and deflection.

Twat.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 18, 2017)




----------



## gosub (Jul 18, 2017)

Wilf said:


> So, where are we up to?
> 
> Scenario 1: thousand year old multi-regenerating alien with 2 hearts whose young companions turn out to be the parents of his wife, who was once played by someone who turns out to be the father of someone who marries somebody else who played him.
> - Bungle: fine!
> ...



by god your right, nobody gave a shit what sex the shark was, when Fonzie jumped it


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 18, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> It's almost like they didn't sit down in 1963 and plan for every possible character and plot development that might prove desirable over a 55-year period.


Sydney Newman had references to the Doctor and Susan's origins removed when they refilmed the original unaired pilot as an Unearthly Child. He wanted to make if more ambiguous to create some mystery for the audience and give the writers more freedom. Some straw clutchers think he already had the possibility of regeneration in mind.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 18, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> It's almost like they didn't sit down in 1963 and plan for every possible character and plot development that might prove desirable over a 55-year period.


Also there is no cannon.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 18, 2017)

canon


----------



## 8ball (Jul 18, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> canon



Cannon


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 18, 2017)

A common mistake.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 18, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> It's almost like they didn't sit down in 1963 and plan for every possible character and plot development that might prove desirable over a 55-year period.


Well that's exactly what I am saying. It's stories just made up as they go, it's never worried about contradictory content. Probably just timey whimey stuff.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Jul 19, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> canon


It was a reference to James P


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 19, 2017)

The Changing Genders In (and of) Doctor Who



> However, on a more serious note, *Sydney Newman* (a man hugely responsibly for bringing Doctor Who to the screen in 1963) recommended a female Doctor to the then BBC Chairman *Michael Grade* in 1986.
> 
> Newman wrote:
> 
> ...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 19, 2017)

Source: AAP via Canberra Times, 1980


----------



## gosub (Jul 19, 2017)

Oddly on facebook, got people bringing Captain Janeway into this.  Of course Janeway had to be a woman, otherwise it would have been 2 seasons before anybody admitted they were lost and another two before they even considered asking locals for directions.
Doesn't help with Who though, either Mrs Who has 'difficulties' in a non matriarchal past (a major change in direction) or feminists should be upset with airbrushing history. ..  
But they probably just won't watch.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 19, 2017)

gosub said:


> Oddly on facebook, got people bringing Captain Janeway into this.  Of course Janeway had to be a woman, otherwise it would have been 2 seasons before anybody admitted they were lost and another two before they even considered asking locals for directions.
> Doesn't help with Who though, either Mrs Who has 'difficulties' in a non matriarchal past (a major change in direction) or feminists should be upset with airbrushing history. ..
> But they probably just won't watch.


When were they lost?
I don't recall them ever not knowing where they were.


----------



## Corax (Jul 19, 2017)

gosub said:


> Oddly on facebook, got people bringing Captain Janeway into this.  Of course Janeway had to be a woman, otherwise it would have been 2 seasons before anybody admitted they were lost and another two before they even considered asking locals for directions.


I'm not convinced that this kind of stereotyping is any more helpful than the 'a woman can't park the Tardis' shit tbh.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 19, 2017)

Gromit said:


> When were they lost?
> I don't recall them ever not knowing where they were.


They were a long way from home but they knew the way back.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 20, 2017)




----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 20, 2017)

Kris Marshall is Now Rumoured for 13th Doctor Companion | Doctor Who TV


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 20, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Kris Marshall is Now Rumoured for 13th Doctor Companion | Doctor Who TV



Shows what they fucking know - saying he may join up with Nardole... who clearly isn't going to be in it anymore as he's on that ship thing.


----------



## Corax (Jul 20, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Shows what they fucking know - saying he may join up with Nardole... who clearly isn't going to be in it anymore as he's on that ship thing.


Black hole event horizon timey wimey stuff.


----------



## antimata (Jul 20, 2017)

girls, boys its all the same right...regenerate.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 20, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Kris Marshall is Now Rumoured for 13th Doctor Companion | Doctor Who TV



I heard a rumour that Kris Marshall can fuck off. 

After months of careful research and fact-checking, I have arrived at the conclusion that Kris Marshall can indeed fuck off.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 21, 2017)

These guys may not be Octavian Doctors, but here's a story anyway:

Two former Doctors clash over Jodie Whittaker casting


----------



## Corax (Jul 21, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> These guys may not be Octavian Doctors, but here's a story anyway:
> 
> Two former Doctors clash over Jodie Whittaker casting


John Barrowman being his usual staid and reserved self at Comic-Con I see


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 24, 2017)




----------



## Helen Back (Aug 1, 2017)

I read somewhere that when Ten knew he was going to regenerate he revisited all the old companions. Does that mean he saved Katarina and Adric, then?


----------



## ginger_syn (Aug 1, 2017)

Who knows


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 1, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> Who knows


She does indeed.


----------



## CNT36 (Aug 1, 2017)

Helen Back said:


> I read somewhere that when Ten knew he was going to regenerate he revisited all the old companions. Does that mean he saved Katarina and Adric, then?


You know how time travel works right? 
It was mentioned in an episode of the Sarah Jane adventures.


----------



## ginger_syn (Aug 2, 2017)

Helen Back said:


> I read somewhere that when Ten knew he was going to regenerate he revisited all the old companions. Does that mean he saved Katarina and Adric, then?


Serious answer is no it's unlikely,although in the case of adric there is a big finish story where he survives and ends up in victorian England  it's called the boy that time forgot.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 2, 2017)

Let's all speculate wildly about this:

An unexpected event in the Doctor Who Christmas special left David Bradley and Peter Capaldi “almost blubbing”



Spoiler



I think they bring back Susan, unannounced, and she's going to be the new companion, played by Carol Ann Ford.


----------



## Chz (Aug 2, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> Serious answer is no it's unlikely,although in the case of adric there is a big finish story where he survives and ends up in victorian England  it's called the boy that time forgot.


Silliness. We all know he was eaten by a dinosaur.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 2, 2017)

Wish I hadn't lookedl at that spoiler.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 2, 2017)

they both trod on a bit of lego barefoot


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 2, 2017)

blubbing is such a private school twat word


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 2, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> blubbing is such a private school twat word


Luvvies.


----------



## ginger_syn (Aug 2, 2017)

Chz said:


> Silliness. We all know he was eaten by a dinosaur.


Sadly can't watch that on my phone what does it show


----------



## xsunnysuex (Aug 21, 2017)

Bradley Walsh new companion?   

*Bradley Walsh revealed as Doctor Who companion to first female Time Lord Jodie Whittaker*
It has been revealed the first female Doctor Who will have a male sidekick old enough to be her father as the quiz show host is set to join the cast

A former soap star has been revealed as the new Doctor Who companion


----------



## PursuedByBears (Aug 21, 2017)

Jesus tapdancing Christ, are they trying to kill off the series altogether?


----------



## Gromit (Aug 21, 2017)

Please tell me it's the 1st of April. 

I was more than happy to give the new Doctor a chance even if it wasn't my preferred choice to stick with male casting.

But Bradley fucking Walsh. If a veto it I look like a masogynist, if I watch it it's got Bradley Walsh in it. There is no win scenario here.


----------



## Wilf (Aug 21, 2017)

It's Bungle's revenge.


----------



## A380 (Aug 22, 2017)

I can't see the problem, Bradley deserves the part as the only person to have five Olympic gold medals and a Tour de France win.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 22, 2017)

Downgrade that to rumour:

Rumour: Bradley Walsh Cast as 13th Doctor Companion | Doctor Who TV

I'm hoping the rumour is false.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 22, 2017)

bradley walsh is a light entertainment legend, he's funny and perfect for the role. Fuck the h8ers. I bet none of you wtch The Chase.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> bradley walsh is a light entertainment legend, he's funny and perfect for the role. Fuck the h8ers. I bet none of you wtch The Chase.


The Chase is rubbish.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 22, 2017)

It strikes me, though, that Walsh is a modern day Roy Castle. (Without the multi-instrumentalistness). 

Roy Castle accompanied a person who thought he was the Doctor quite ably.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 22, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> The Chase is rubbish.


second best thing on tele after Doctor Who

I bet it isn't him though. He's busy doing that quiz watched by millions, has run for half a decade and won at this years NTA's Then of course there is his busy Soccer Aid duties for charity. No he'll be too busy


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## DotCommunist (Aug 22, 2017)

'In 2008, Walsh appeared in two episodes of _Doctor Who_ spin-off _The Sarah Jane Adventures_, in the second story of series two, _The Day of the Clown_, as a sinister entity that fed off other people's fear. '

he's already been in it once, that means he might be recycled like has happened before with bit part actors


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## Lazy Llama (Aug 22, 2017)

And he worked with Chibnall on "Law & Order UK" (which I didn't like).


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## Wilf (Aug 22, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Roy Castle accompanied a person who thought he was the Doctor quite ably.


 Norris McWhirter?


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## Wilf (Aug 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> bradley walsh is a light entertainment legend, he's funny and perfect for the role. Fuck the h8ers. I bet none of you wtch The Chase.


Bradley: 'Well done Doctor, you've just saved the lives of the 17 billion inhabitants of the 73rd Spiral Galaxy!'
Doctor: 'Just another day at the office for me Bradley'.


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## Wilf (Aug 22, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> The Chase is rubbish.


Post reported.


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## Gromit (Aug 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Bradley: 'Well done Doctor, you've just saved the lives of the 17 billion inhabitants of the 73rd Spiral Galaxy!'
> Doctor: 'Just another day at the office for me Bradley'.


Bradley: Wmph dmph Doctor, yopgh jupt saghr the lipg of the 17 billiophg...
Doctor: what the fuck are you saying? Not even the TARDIS universal translator can make sense your mumbling bumbling regional accent!!


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## Wilf (Aug 22, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Bradley: Wmph dmph Doctor, yopgh jupt saghr the lipg of the 17 billiophg...
> Doctor: what the fuck are you saying? Not even the TARDIS universal translator can make sense your mumbling bumbling regional accent!!


Your post had me scurrying to Wikipedia. I've always had him down as having one of those generic 'southern' accents. Watford apparently.


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## D'wards (Aug 22, 2017)

If Bradley Walsh gets it Frank Skinner will be spewing. He's always going on about it on his radio show.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> bradley walsh is a light entertainment legend, he's funny and perfect for the role. Fuck the h8ers. I bet none of you wtch The Chase.



Is that the one where they call the black guy the 'dark destroyer', because that's fucking not OK.


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## Gromit (Aug 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Is that the one where they call the black guy the 'dark destroyer', because that's fucking not OK.


Nigel Benn fan are you?


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## Wilf (Aug 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Is that the one where they call the black guy the 'dark destroyer', because that's fucking not OK.


... and they go on about the fat feller eating a lot and 'the governess' being some kind of mixture of a fatty and a dominatrix. Oh, and the other one is 'the vixen'. ((((Bradbantz))))


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## Gromit (Aug 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Your post had me scurrying to Wikipedia. I've always had him down as having one of those generic 'southern' accents. Watford apparently.


There's been many a time where I knew the answer but didn't know the question because of Bradley's god awful accent / pronouciation.


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## spanglechick (Aug 22, 2017)

I have him conflated in my head with the awful "it's a puppet" comedian who has just been announced for Strictly.   I've only just realised that they are different people.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 22, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> I have him conflated in my head with the awful "it's a puppet" comedian who has just been announced for Strictly.   I've only just realised that they are different people.



Brian Conley? I thought he'd be festering away at the end of a pier somewere by now. And not a good pier either. Not even Cromer.


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## gosub (Aug 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> second best thing on tele after Doctor Who
> 
> I bet it isn't him though. He's busy doing that quiz watched by millions, has run for half a decade and won at this years NTA's Then of course there is his busy Soccer Aid duties for charity. No he'll be too busy


How can you be too busy if you have access to a tardis?


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## danny la rouge (Aug 22, 2017)

gosub said:


> How can you be too busy if you have access to a tardis?


You can't cross your own timeline except to do cheap tricks with ties.


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## ginger_syn (Aug 23, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Bradley: Wmph dmph Doctor, yopgh jupt saghr the lipg of the 17 billiophg...
> Doctor: what the fuck are you saying? Not even the TARDIS universal translator can make sense your mumbling bumbling regional accent!!


I always thought he had a Londonish type of accent, sounds fine to me. As for him being the new companion if it's true then I'll just have to wait and see if  he's any good but I don't hate the idea of it.


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## Gromit (Aug 23, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> I always thought he had a Londonish type of accent, sounds fine to me. As for him being the new companion if it's true then I'll just have to wait and see if  he's any good but I don't hate the idea of it.


London is a region.


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## 03gills (Aug 26, 2017)

I do have sympathy with the argument that Steven Moffat should've bowed out with Matt Smith after the 50th, but it could be argued that the 2014/15 series represented something of a second wind after an uneven 6 & 7, with some solid episodes amongst their number & Capaldi's stonking performance being the one constant throughout. However series 10 has been a real mixed bag in terms of quality, with even Capaldi not able to carry some of the material to greatness.

I mean it hasn't been _terrible_, but it's just been incredibly uneven & mediocre, & because of the producers inability to get a full series out in 2016, momentum for the show stalled & there was much more riding on this one being universally good, & it just wasn't. If these episodes had aired last Autumn, I'd probably be much more forgiving, but given how late they started production, that wasn't ever going to happen.

Not only that but you had Peter announcing his departure _*a full three months before any episode had even aired*,_ managing to kill any remaining enthusiasm I had going into this series. Of course It's nice that he actually got a 3rd series to wrap his era up (as opposed to Colin Baker) but it would've been even nicer if his last run of episodes didn't feel like one long, glorified hold over, only really there to keep the show ticking over before Chris Chibnall takes the reins next year.

I feel like Moffat mentally checked out of Doctor Who a couple years back, & this one was him doing it purely for the paycheck, & that's not what the show or Peter for his swansong, needed right now.


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## danny la rouge (Aug 26, 2017)

Two Classic Companions Return in Twice Upon a Time | Doctor Who TV

"two classic era companions will be back this Christmas in 'Twice Upon a Time'.

Peter Capaldi’s Doctor will team up with the First Doctor.

Joining the First Doctor will be companions Ben and Polly."


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## krtek a houby (Aug 29, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> bradley walsh is a light entertainment legend, he's funny and perfect for the role. Fuck the h8ers. I bet none of you wtch The Chase.



If you can have Bernard Cribbins, Catherine Tate (and going back a bit; Ken Dodd) there's room for Walsh.


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## spanglechick (Aug 29, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> If you can have Bernard Cribbins, Catherine Tate (and going back a bit; Ken Dodd) there's room for Walsh.


Cribbins and Tate are both actors.


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## Wilf (Aug 29, 2017)

If it is to be Walsh, he might actually be very good. Not exactly a future Oscar winner but he could do a bit of hangdog pathos, bit of comedy etc.  Key thing though will be how much the writers want to make of it being a woman doctor.  If they do want to focus on that, they might have Walsh coming out with the middle aged blokey stuff, which would be excruciating.


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## 03gills (Aug 29, 2017)

I'd love to see the format shaken up. (not that you'd notice, there's been no real logic or pattern to the airdates since two thousand & fucking eight)

I know one of the rumours floating around was of 10x45 minute episodes, but why not collapse those down into five, 90 minute episodes spread over the year? So you'd get the show premiering over Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter & Christmas & It would turn DW into proper 'event tv' like the Moff always wanted.


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## spanglechick (Aug 29, 2017)

03gills said:


> I'd love to see the format shaken up. (not that you'd notice, there's been no real logic or pattern to the airdates since two thousand & fucking eight)
> 
> I know one of the rumours floating around was of 10x45 minute episodes, but why not collapse those down into five, 90 minute episodes spread over the year? So you'd get the show premiering over Spring, Summer, Autumn, Winter & Christmas & It would turn DW into proper 'event tv' like the Moff always wanted.


This is the opposite of a good idea.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 29, 2017)

the only time Torchwood was any good was the Children of Earth special played out in one week from mon-fri. I wouldn't want that for real who tho


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## 03gills (Aug 29, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> This is the opposite of a good idea.



Look, like most people on here I'd prefer it if we could have a full series airing at the same time every year for more than two fucking calendar years. But the current production team, for whatever reason **cough**_sherlock_**cough** were unable to pull it off.

I'm simply looking at anything that might make getting DW out every year a more doable prospect.


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## mwgdrwg (Aug 29, 2017)

Bradley fucking Walsh?


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## CNT36 (Aug 29, 2017)

spanglechick said:


> Cribbins and Tate are both actors.


Whereas Walsh was Mike Baldwin's real life son.


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## krtek a houby (Aug 30, 2017)

It doesn't bother me as much as when I heard this "actor" was going to be in Doctor Who


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## Santino (Dec 25, 2017)

This thread for the Christmas special?


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## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2017)

I hope they don't mawk out capaldis exit too much


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 25, 2017)

How can I see this in Bulgaria? When does it play?


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## danny la rouge (Dec 25, 2017)

First 45 minutes: absolutely top notch! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

After the Christmas Day Armistice - slow, long, mawkish.

Regeneration and cliffhanger! Well played!  Thank you again.


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## cupid_stunt (Dec 25, 2017)

Fucking brilliant.


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## Buddy Bradley (Dec 25, 2017)

Bit annoying that the first thing they have the one and only woman Doctor do is fail to drive the Tardis properly. Could they really not come up with a better way to tee up the cliffhanger?


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## cupid_stunt (Dec 25, 2017)

TBF, what would you expect from a woman driver?

*runs like fuck*


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## danny la rouge (Dec 25, 2017)

_You're_ a good Dalek.


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## gosub (Dec 25, 2017)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Bit annoying that the first thing they have the one and only woman Doctor do is fail to drive the Tardis properly. Could they really not come up with a better way to tee up the cliffhanger?


Last time he regenerated in the tardis same thing happened


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## danny la rouge (Dec 25, 2017)

gosub said:


> Last time he regenerated in the tardis same thing happened


Was just about to say that.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 25, 2017)

Thoroughly enjoyed it! Yes, it tugged at the heartstrings in a predictable enough way but the performances were all terrific, and it was lovely to see old faces a final time. Only blubbed three times, lol


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## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2017)

capaldis testimonial match. Good show, the wedding ring sliding of and clinking to the ground nice touch. Of course the ww1 truce. Complete with 5 aside. Clara was in it for two seconds man. I lolled quite a bit at the 'they've cut out all the jokes' bit.Gatiss had some good lines. mawk was not too ott. I say yes 

edit to get the right war. The one with trenches. Which reminds me 'what do you mean first world war?'

erg


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## danny la rouge (Dec 25, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> capaldis testimonial match. Good show, the wedding ring sliding of and clinking to the ground nice touch.p


This happened to the Second too. It made Polly suspicious that he wasn't the Doctor!


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## Helen Back (Dec 25, 2017)

And some smartass at the ITV3 offices decided 10 minutes before the end of DW would be a good time for them to start showing "Carry On Again, Doctor". Nice one!


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## Cloo (Dec 25, 2017)

It was pretty good, heck of a way to end!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 25, 2017)

How can I see in a different country?


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## Sprocket. (Dec 25, 2017)

Really enjoyed it.  Great to see David Bradley filling the William Hartnall role as well as he did in the story about the creation of Dr Who.
I would like to think some retro one offs with him in the role as Dr number one may be possible.
Looking forward to the new series.
Did not see Mark Gatiss character’s name coming though. Good Christmas special I thought.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 25, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> How can I see in a different country?


Can you not get iPlayer overseas?


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## Gromit (Dec 25, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> How can I see in a different country?


By moving to the uk.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2017)

Sprocket. said:


> Did not see Mark Gatiss character’s name coming though.


the tash spelled it out straight away for me. Had to be


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## mwgdrwg (Dec 25, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> How can I see in a different country?



Get a VPN and set it to connect to a UK server.


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## Buddy Bradley (Dec 25, 2017)

gosub said:


> Last time he regenerated in the tardis same thing happened


Doesn't come with a whole load of cultural misogyny baggage though, does it.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 25, 2017)

S☼I said:


> Can you not get iPlayer overseas?


No.


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## belboid (Dec 25, 2017)

Surprisingly generous comments here. It was okay, there were some good and some funny lines, but there was just no tension. Was anyone surprised at anything? All nicely worked out, but nothing special.


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## Wilf (Dec 25, 2017)

belboid said:


> Surprisingly generous comments here. It was okay, there were some good and some funny lines, but there was just no tension. Was anyone surprised at anything? All nicely worked out, but nothing special.


Yes, all that I think. After 20 minutes I wasn't even irritated by the rustling chocolate papers in the room.


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 25, 2017)

Glad it was good as far as you folks think will be watching it in an hour or so


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## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Yes, all that I think. After 20 minutes I wasn't even irritated by the rustling chocolate papers in the room.


halfway through ma went 'oh I can see where this sexism stuff is going' so I paused it to mansplain discuss that I thought this was very much a conversation about this coming change and social progress pitched at a level for all the family. Good chat tho, we discussed pertwee being a massive sexist in the day.


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## Wilf (Dec 25, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> halfway through ma went 'oh I can see where this sexism stuff is going' so I paused it to mansplain discuss that I thought this was very much a conversation about this coming change and social progress pitched at a level for all the family. Good chat tho, we discussed pertwee being a massive sexist in the day.


Thought there were a couple of SF film references in there as well. An obvious Alien monster-on-face thing, along with a Game of Thrones thing the way the dead were 'stored'. May have been others but I was pissed a bit distracted.


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## donkyboy (Dec 25, 2017)

didn't end up watching it as it was too long. they ought to make these episodes the same length as Eastenders. 30 minutes.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 25, 2017)

VPN s don't work. I need to see this before my daughter explodes tomorrow.


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## Helen Back (Dec 25, 2017)

It'll be on torrents, err long.


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## Santino (Dec 25, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> the tash spelled it out straight away for me. Had to be


I didn't think Gatiss would turn up for some no-name grunt.


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## spanglechick (Dec 25, 2017)

Santino said:


> I didn't think Gatiss would turn up for some no-name grunt.


Pretty sure Gattis would turn up for anything if you promised him a sniff at more work in the future.


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## ruffneck23 (Dec 26, 2017)

Thought it was pretty good but a bit dull in the middle


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## joustmaster (Dec 26, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> VPN s don't work. I need to see this before my daughter explodes tomorrow.


Vpns do work

Buy here is a link to a stream 
Watch doctor who 2005 S10E102 special twice upon time 720p hdtv x264 fov mp4


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## Cid (Dec 26, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> VPN s don't work. I need to see this before my daughter explodes tomorrow.



I'm in China, on ExpressVPN, it works. And actually I think you might be able to do a free trial just to scratch this itch.

Once registered, you'll need to chose a location in the UK - the BBC does block VPN servers, but my VPN at least switches them periodically, so there's usually one working. I used the one in 'East London', was working well this morning.


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## ginger_syn (Dec 26, 2017)

That was a joy to watch, I will say more after a rewatch probably but I will miss Capaldi terribly and he will always be my favourite doctor.


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## krtek a houby (Dec 26, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> How can I see in a different country?



There's a way of bypassing iplayer stipulations and making it look like you're in the UK. Or so I'm told.

Otherwise might have to wait a bit until Netflix Japan has it. Assuming you're in Japan?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 26, 2017)

krtek a houby said:


> There's a way of bypassing iplayer stipulations and making it look like you're in the UK. Or so I'm told.
> 
> Otherwise might have to wait a bit until Netflix Japan has it. Assuming you're in Japan?


Bulgaria. Never trouble in Japan oddly.


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## mwgdrwg (Dec 26, 2017)

Bradley Walsh confirmed ffs Jodie Whittaker makes Doctor Who debut


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## Chz (Dec 26, 2017)

Thought it ran pretty good up to the Dalek, which even though it was a bit meh-ish it was a nice change to have the "Big Bad" be doing good and not a problem at all. Though I suspect they'll return and be evil, eventually.

After that? Meh. I kinda drifted off while Capaldi was busy emoting.

Also, Doctor #1 was a time lord and not an actual 1960s grandfather. The sexist stuff was annoying instead of funny. Plus I don't think Verity Lambert would have put up with that shit if Bill Hartnell was like that. (though apparently a bit of a rascist, according to some memoirs...)


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 26, 2017)

I'm so nerdy. Really looking forward to this. So glad my daughter is so into it. Unless she just likes watching me drunkenly crying at the TV.


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## CNT36 (Dec 26, 2017)

Again Moffat reuding elements from previous stories. Testimony was very similar to the grab Clara just before her death machine. All the dead standing in chambers like Dark Water. Nothing new. Doctor's memories of Clara restored. He got rid for a (stupid) reason. Enjoyed it.


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## HoratioCuthbert (Dec 26, 2017)

Maaan I couldn't believe them first thing they had the lassie do was fuck up the driving! *stomps out to my car with my Makita drill in a huff*


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## HoratioCuthbert (Dec 26, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> No.


Try Hola Internet Unblocker, not sure how reliable it is right now but you can usually get it going after hunners of gos.


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## scifisam (Dec 26, 2017)

I enjoyed it despite only seeing three episodes of Capaldi's Who. 

What was the significance of the Captain's name? (I'm not a Whovian).


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 26, 2017)

scifisam said:


> I enjoyed it despite only seeing three episodes of Capaldi's Who.
> 
> What was the significance of the Captain's name? (I'm not a Whovian).


Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart - Wikipedia


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## DotCommunist (Dec 26, 2017)

scifisam said:


> I enjoyed it despite only seeing three episodes of Capaldi's Who.
> 
> What was the significance of the Captain's name? (I'm not a Whovian).


Lethbridge-Stewart. The Brigadier (pertwee era first, later met several of them) as he was ranked in the 70s headed up UNIT (nato for anti alien stuff and combating general wierdness). A well liked and long serving Who character. This captain will have been an ancestor


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## scifisam (Dec 26, 2017)

S☼I said:


> Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart - Wikipedia



Ah! I'd heard of the Brigadier but had no idea what his name was.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 26, 2017)

S☼I said:


> Brigadier Lethbridge-Stewart - Wikipedia


last seen in the body of a cyberman doing something then mr pink dies and whatever


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 26, 2017)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Maaan I couldn't believe them first thing they had the lassie do was fuck up the driving! *stomps out to my car with my Makita drill in a huff*


I bumped in that too, but as was pointed out upthread it's happened before when the Doctor regenerates in the Tardis.

They should really stop regenerating in the Tardis.


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## planetgeli (Dec 26, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Lethbridge-Stewart. The Brigadier (pertwee era first, later met several of them) as he was ranked in the 70s headed up UNIT (nato for anti alien stuff and combating general wierdness). A well liked and long serving Who character. This captain will have been an ancestor



I got this! Pleased with myself as a part time Dr Whoer, but one who grew up with the Brigadier in the 70s.


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 26, 2017)

belboid said:


> Surprisingly generous comments here. It was okay, there were some good and some funny lines, but there was just no tension. Was anyone surprised at anything? All nicely worked out, but nothing special.



Couldn't really follow it tbh, particularly the bit about trading the Captain's life for Bill's or whatever, there didn't seem to be any set up for that at all.

'Hartnell' didn't really have a role in the plot and was reduced to a comedy sidekick and a genuinely offensive one at times; a wasted opportunity.

Capaldi's final speech massively overwritten and overacted, a poor send off both for the character and for Moffat's era.

Still can't believe the wonderful Bill is being replaced by Bradley 'wasn't he briefly famous for something shit back in the 90's' Walsh. Was Brian Conley unavailable?


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 26, 2017)

Tbf Walsh IS quite famous now cos of The Chase.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 26, 2017)

But yeah, Bill should not be going and not just because I lurrrve her.


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## Santino (Dec 26, 2017)

Bradley Walsh was surprisingly good in Coronation Street some years ago.

I'm going to predict a heart-string-pulling exit for him in the next series or two.


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## Santino (Dec 26, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> I bumped in that too, but as was pointed out upthread it's happened before when the Doctor regenerates in the Tardis.
> 
> They should really stop regenerating in the Tardis.


It gives the writer/director of the next episode options, doesn't it?


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## DotCommunist (Dec 26, 2017)

He was also in Law&Order UK which I never watched.


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## Gromit (Dec 26, 2017)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Maaan I couldn't believe them first thing they had the lassie do was fuck up the driving! *stomps out to my car with my Makita drill in a huff*


Don’t you feel that was offset by all the comedy ‘the old Doctor is being old fashioned and misogynistic’ lols. 
Oh how hilarious dumb he is. Let all laugh at old fashion misogynistic people (because ‘inside joke’ we all know the next doctor is a woman so it’s even more hilarious).

I suspect the crashing the Tardis bit was put in to deliberatly bait a trap. 

When all the sexists come out with the *oh so obvious joke* the feminists get to point out well actually a man doctor did it first and feel great about scoring points off of the sexists.


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## Steel Icarus (Dec 26, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Don’t you feel that was offset by all the comedy ‘the old Doctor is being old fashioned and misogynistic’ lols.
> Oh how hilarious dumb he is. Let all laugh at old fashion misogynistic people (because ‘inside joke’ we all know the next doctor is a woman so it’s even more hilarious).
> 
> I suspect the crashing the Tardis bit was put in to deliberatly bait a trap.
> ...


Struck a nerve, eh


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## HoratioCuthbert (Dec 26, 2017)

What's going on here :-D

I am clearly livid at the ending and didn't even think to make the women driver joke at the end such is the robustness of muh biopolitcs. Nah, we in the descendents of Cuthbert household all collectively pissed ourselves, all women bar 2. Brandy had been teen!


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## Gromit (Dec 26, 2017)

S☼I said:


> Struck a nerve, eh


Nope just pointing out “ah, see what they did there”. 
We knew all along that we’re going to get a specific subtext over there being a female doctor. 

They’ve started it before she’s even really arrived. 

Hope they get it out of their systems as quickly as possible and just get on with ripping yarns. Brow beating on Doctor Who can sometimes be clever but is usually tedious even when clever.


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## ginger_syn (Dec 26, 2017)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Maaan I couldn't believe them first thing they had the lassie do was fuck up the driving! *stomps out to my car with my Makita drill in a huff*


To be fair it was her male incarnation who caused the tardis to blow, her being tossed out was the tardis's way of saving her, we know they find each other because of jodie's reveal scene.


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## HoratioCuthbert (Dec 26, 2017)

Oh let it go! Talk about brow beating! Fuck sake.


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## HoratioCuthbert (Dec 26, 2017)

I hope "The Gay Agenda"  makes a reappearance soon. I am still not over the loss of RTD.


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 26, 2017)

Santino said:


> It gives the writer/director of the next episode options, doesn't it?


Yeah, but from a character POV... The Doctor needs to get a safe house or summat, or at least a Regeneration Room in the Tardis.


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## HoratioCuthbert (Dec 26, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> Yeah, but from a character POV... The Doctor needs to get a safe house or summat, or at least a Regeneration Room in the Tardis.


The door just needs to be shut like, nobody falls out at any other time.


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## ginger_syn (Dec 26, 2017)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Oh let it go! Talk about brow beating! Fuck sake.


I must say Frozen has truly ruined the phrase let it go, and ive not watched the bloody thing.


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## HoratioCuthbert (Dec 26, 2017)

ginger_syn said:


> I must say Frozen has truly ruined the phrase let it go, and ive not watched the bloody thing.


That's a great tune, particularly when performed by earnest 3 year olds and especially when accompanied by an edited version of Richard Spencer getting punched.


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 27, 2017)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> The door just needs to be shut like, nobody falls out at any other time.



How the door swung open _inwards_ while clearly facing down is another mystery.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 27, 2017)

Whenever I point out weird plot failure, my 10 year old daughter reminds me "it's for kids daddy, just let me enjoy it". Tomorrow she is demanding a 'mushroom head' (Troughton) marathon.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 27, 2017)

Christmas present. My daughter joked she wanted a mug with capaldi and a sonic screwdriver with daleks in the background and her popping out of the TARDIS. She was almost moved to tears to see it realised.


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## spanglechick (Dec 28, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Whenever I point out weird plot failure, my 10 year old daughter reminds me "it's for kids daddy, just let me enjoy it". Tomorrow she is demanding a 'mushroom head' (Troughton) marathon.


And so your daughter joins the urban doctor who consensus.


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## The Fornicator (Dec 28, 2017)

Clearly we have a problem with women (doctor) drivers already.


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## Helen Back (Dec 28, 2017)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> The door just needs to be shut like, nobody falls out at any other time.



Nope, never happened before.


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## cupid_stunt (Dec 28, 2017)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Christmas present. My daughter joked she wanted a mug with capaldi and a sonic screwdriver with daleks in the background and her popping out of the TARDIS. She was almost moved to tears to see it realised.



That is brilliant, what a great present for her.


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## kabbes (Jan 4, 2018)

Can’t believe people liked that episode.  Nothing happened.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 4, 2018)

kabbes said:


> Can’t believe people liked that episode.  Nothing happened.


Shit story, one that really fucked up with people all sort of living forever? Ruined that girl living on as a water  lady. What happened there?? 
but the two doctors interactions were fun. 
Another looooonnnnng goodbye. . And a cliffhanger that will no doubt be magically fixed in the first minute of the next episode. Capaldi deserved more.
I still got some enjoyment from it. The daughter an I watched it three times.


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## Helen Back (Jan 5, 2018)

Either resolved quickly or Chibnall plans to ditch the Tardis altogether and strand her on Earth for a while.


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## ginger_syn (Jan 5, 2018)

Did a couple of rewatches over this week with the grandkids who really enjoyed it, the grandson was quite pleased he stayed spoiler free about the new doctor until the regeneration,  and eldest granddaughter is relieved that she can now talk about it with her cousin as its been killing her since the offical announcement, you could see the struggle on her face sometimes but she was good about his no spoilers rule, will probably be watching again on saturday when they are over together  
its still an enjoyable watch, Capaldi was excellent, he really has a most expressive face, the score was lovely and I thought David Bradley was very good as a substitute first Doctor, I was also relieved that the regeneration worked for me.  I thought jodie whittaker did well in her few seconds of  screen time and  I was still ok with the casting choice of the new Doctor, 
 it was overall a sweet and charming christmas special, a soothing balm after the trauma of The Doctor falls.


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## Kaka Tim (Jan 8, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> Lethbridge-Stewart. The Brigadier (pertwee era first, later met several of them) as he was ranked in the 70s headed up UNIT (nato for anti alien stuff and combating general wierdness). A well liked and long serving Who character. This captain will have been an ancestor



pedant alert. He first appears in the Patrick Troughton era story "The Web of Fear" - battling robot yeti on the london underground.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2018)

Kaka Tim said:


> pedant alert. He first appears in the Patrick Troughton era story "The Web of Fear" - battling robot yeti on the london underground.


Although he isn't a Brigadier until the Invasion. (Also Troughton).


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## kabbes (Jan 8, 2018)

For me as a casual Who watcher that can't remember anything from the original series, this Christmas special had way too much assumed knowledge.  It was full of nods and winks to things that left me feeling like I wasn't in the right clique.  That doesn't matter so much if it is peripheral, but on this occasion the nods and winks were central -- they basically were the storyline.  I was left with a rather tedious story I had no investment in and the strong inference it all rather wasn't for me.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2018)

kabbes said:


> For me as a casual Who watcher that can't remember anything from the original series, this Christmas special had way too much assumed knowledge.  It was full of nods and winks to things that left me feeling like I wasn't in the right clique.  That doesn't matter so much if it is peripheral, but on this occasion the nods and winks were central -- they basically were the storyline.  I was left with a rather tedious story I had no investment in and the strong inference it all rather wasn't for me.


I can see that. As a nerd who'd rewatched the Tenth Planet in preparation, I loved the episode particularly because it was a two hander with the First Doctor.

However my two daughters hate all Old Who. They think it's boring and not really anything to do with New Who. And my Elder Daughter loved the Christmas episode so much she said it has got her back into Who (she drifted away during the Matt Smith era). And my Younger Daughter wanted to rewatch New Who with me from the start on Netflix as a direct result.

So I don't think you have to be a Classic Who nerd to have enjoyed the episode.


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## kabbes (Jan 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I can see that. As a nerd who'd rewatched the Tenth Planet in preparation, I loved the episode particularly because it was actwo gander with the First Doctor.
> 
> However my two daughters hate all Old Who. They think it's boring and not really anything to do with New Who. And my Elder Daughter loved the Christmas episode so much she said it has got her back into Who (she drifted away during the Matt Smith era). And my Younger Daughter wanted to rewatch New Who with me from the start on Netflix as a direct result.
> 
> So I don't think you have to be a Classic Who nerd to have enjoyed the episode.


I'm genuinely glad they and you enjoyed it!

But it wasn't for me, Jen.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2018)

kabbes said:


> I'm genuinely glad they and you enjoyed it!
> 
> But it wasn't for me, Jen.


That's absolutely fine, Moss.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2018)

I liked that on some ways it really concentrated on this idea of rebirth, regeneration as a new beginning. Of course they always are but this one was played more for that. The wheel turns and the old pattern is new once more. Pleasing cycles.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2018)

DotCommunist said:


> I liked that on some ways it really concentrated on this idea of rebirth, regeneration as a new beginning. Of course they always are but this one was played more for that. The wheel turns and the old pattern is new once more. Pleasing cycles.


I liked the fact that it was the first regeneration and the first "extra" generation (sort of) (as well as first gender reassignment [that we know of]) coming together. There had been nods towards the First Doctor during the season (photo of Susan on his desk and so on), so it had a nice roundness to it.

I've seen criticism that the First Doctor wasn't as casually sexist in the series as in this episode, but his attitudes were certainly patriarchal. He forcibly abandons Susan with a man she has only just met and without consulting her, giving her a speech about growing up and becoming a wife etc.  That's a biggie in my view!


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## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2018)

Without her shoes, too, if memory serves me right!


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## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2018)

it actually got me thinking about what it must be like to know the very mode of human interaction you grew up with and hey maybe you questioned it and maybe it never sat right but that...limits of what is, artificial limits yes but to you, they were how the world was. To see that in the harsh light of modernity (not that this is some wonderful post-patriachal world but you get me). To look at your own conduct at that time and find it wanting, not saville wanting, but onetheless. The good reactions from crap baker captured how I like to think I'd handle such. 'Change my dears, and not a moment to soon'. 

the crap reaction. should capitalise that. The Reactionary position leads us once again to this snowflake talk, as if the transformation (however woefully limited- perhaps transformations is a wrong word) of views is now special pleading against the natural laws.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I can see that. As a nerd who'd rewatched the Tenth Planet in preparation, I loved the episode particularly because it was a two hander with the First Doctor.
> 
> However my two daughters hate all Old Who. They think it's boring and not really anything to do with New Who. And my Elder Daughter loved the Christmas episode so much she said it has got her back into Who (she drifted away during the Matt Smith era). And my Younger Daughter wanted to rewatch New Who with me from the start on Netflix as a direct result.
> 
> So I don't think you have to be a Classic Who nerd to have enjoyed the episode.


My daughter loves the references to past episodes and likes to find out about the history. That's part of it for her, so she is happy to watch old who. Even I struggle to watch some of it, only nostalgia keeps me afloat. Mind you, same can probably be said for new who. I'm surprised shes taken to it so feverishly. I bet one day we both find out that we are both only watching it for each other.


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## Santino (Jan 8, 2018)

I tried to watch an old Pertwee series some time ago (one with the Master in it), and it was just too slow and the music was too quiet.


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## CNT36 (Jan 8, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I liked the fact that it was the first regeneration and the first "extra" generation (sort of) (as well as first gender reassignment [that we know of]) coming together. There had been nods towards the First Doctor during the season (photo of Susan on his desk and so on), so it had a nice roundness to it.
> 
> I've seen criticism that the First Doctor wasn't as casually sexist in the series as in this episode, but his attitudes were certainly patriarchal. He forcibly abandons Susan with a man she has only just met and without consulting her, giving her a speech about growing up and becoming a wife etc.  That's a biggie in my view!


Iirc the speech was him talking about setting her free from the burden he'd become for a shot at happiness.


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## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2018)

CNT36 said:


> Iirc the speech was him talking about setting her free from the burden he'd become for a shot at happiness.


But it wasn't his call!


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## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2018)




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## danny la rouge (Jan 8, 2018)

Out of context it doesn't seem quite as bad.


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## CNT36 (Jan 11, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> But it wasn't his call!


Of course it was. The equivalent of saving her arse wiping hand by fucking off to Switzerland while she's out for milk.


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## krtek a houby (Feb 14, 2018)

Doctor Who revisting historical stories?

Could Doctor Who cross paths with civil rights campaigner Rosa Parks in series 11?


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## belboid (Feb 14, 2018)

They were filming in Sheffield yesterday, twas very exciting.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 14, 2018)

My daughter has expressed an interest in getting a Peter Capaldi autograph. How does one go about this without going to a sci-fi convention?


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## ruffneck23 (Feb 14, 2018)

Peter Capaldi SIGNED 10X8 FRAMED Photo Autograph Display TV Doctor Who & COA  | eBay


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 14, 2018)

ruffneck23 said:


> Peter Capaldi SIGNED 10X8 FRAMED Photo Autograph Display TV Doctor Who & COA  | eBay


. . . and without ebay.


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## Plumdaff (Feb 14, 2018)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> . . . and without ebay.



She could try writing to him. No guarantee but he's a renowned nice bloke and it would be more personal. I'm sure his agent/representation is findable on the internet.

eta. very easily findable Where do I send fan mail for Doctor Who? - BBC FAQs


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Feb 14, 2018)

Plumdaff said:


> She could try writing to him. No guarantee but he's a renowned nice bloke and it would be more personal. I'm sure his agent/representation is findable on the internet.
> 
> eta. very easily findable Where do I send fan mail for Doctor Who? - BBC FAQs


Ah yes, just spotted that. Already primed her to write something, never even considered an email actually. 
I'll stick in a SAE just in case? Or is that a bit presumptuous?


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