# Shane Meadows latest film This Is England



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2006)

It's set in 1983 and is about skinheads.
I'm absurdly excited about it. Is anyone else?


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## Dubversion (Nov 2, 2006)

definitely - he's a great director, and this is an interesting sibject


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## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2006)

Apparently it's about 'The schism in the skinhead movement between fascism and anti-fascism forms the backdrop to the coming of age of 12-year-old Shaun. His soldier Dad died in the Falklands War, and he finds two father figures amongst the skins, first in kindly young Woody then in the older, damaged Combo. Missing fathers haunt the film, as does the wicked stepmother of Mrs Thatcher, forger of the decrepit post-industrial landscape the skins go hunting in - rundown estates, graffiti strewn walkways and dingy playgrounds - wistfully and nostalgically evoked by Meadows."


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## Belushi (Nov 2, 2006)

I'm sold


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## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2006)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> definitely - he's a great director, and this is an interesting sibject


The soundtrack sounds promising - ska, punk, The Smiths


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## Dubversion (Nov 2, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> The soundtrack sounds promising - ska, punk, The Smiths




but not ska-punk?


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## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2006)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> but not ska-punk?


Who knows? I've only been fed snippets of info so far - gonna see it a week on Monday - will let you know


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## Biddlybee (Nov 2, 2006)

When does it come out?


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## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2006)

BiddlyBee said:
			
		

> When does it come out?


April I think


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## jugularvein (Nov 2, 2006)

fucking love shane meadows. when's it out?


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## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 2, 2006)

This sounds excellent.  I just watched Dead Mans Shoes and loved it.


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## Sweet FA (Nov 2, 2006)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> but not ska-punk?


now now







This Is England sounds excellent - just looked for it on imdb and don't recognise any of the actors (main bloke seems to have done a lot of Corrie/Emmerdale...)


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## Biddlybee (Nov 2, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> April I think


So how come you're seeing it in a couple weeks? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




perk of the job?


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## jodal (Nov 2, 2006)

Sounds like its autobiographical




			
				IMDB said:
			
		

> At a Q&A period following this film's world premiere at the Toronto International Film Festival, director Shane Meadows noted that the grim skinhead influenced upbringing of the 11-year-old protagonist was a true portrayal of his own childhood and many of the events depicted were drawn from his early life.


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## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2006)

BiddlyBee said:
			
		

> So how come you're seeing it in a couple weeks?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aye


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## Sweet FA (Nov 2, 2006)

http://www.twitchfilm.net/archives/007533.html


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## STFC (Nov 2, 2006)

It's out now isn't it? I'm sure I saw it mentioned in one of the free London rags earlier this week.

It sounds ace.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 2, 2006)

Orang says April...


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## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2006)

STFC said:
			
		

> It's out now isn't it? I'm sure I saw it mentioned in one of the free London rags earlier this week.
> 
> It sounds ace.


It was shown at the LFF I think but it's not out til next year


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## milesy (Nov 2, 2006)

this sounds good.


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## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2006)

Wow - we might finally agree on something ((((milesy))))


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## Orang Utan (Nov 13, 2006)

Gonna see this tonight - can't wait!


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## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 13, 2006)

I expect a full review tomorrow


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## jodal (Nov 13, 2006)

Me too


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## Orang Utan (Nov 14, 2006)

*Brilliant*

It's as good as I expected it to be - the review above that Sweet FA says it all really, better than I could articulate.
It's a great period piece - lots of stuff here rings true about growing up in the eighties - the being teased for wearing flares, the scrappy school fights, the smashing up old council houses out of boredom. Great use of music from Toots to UK Subs to Strawberry Swithcblade. At times, it seemed it was bashing home the point that this film is set in the eighties a little too forcefully - it sometimes looked like an 80s bad hair day fashion parade, and the montages of news footage from the eighties, though poignant at times (esp the Falklands footage) was little bit too 'Rock n roll years', especially at the beginning.
The performances were outstanding, especially Stephen Graham as Combo, but Thomas Turgoose's debut performance as Shaun was most impressive.
Cracking dialogue as well - it's a very funny film, despite it being quite emotionally wrenching.


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## Donna Ferentes (Nov 14, 2006)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> definitely - he's a great director


Great as in Scorsese or Hitchock, or merely quite good?


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## Orang Utan (Nov 14, 2006)

Donna Ferentes said:
			
		

> Great as in Scorsese or Hitchock, or merely quite good?


As potentially great as Scorsese - it's a shame films set in the Midlands are never gonna break box office records as much as films set in New York can.


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## D'wards (Nov 15, 2006)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> As potentially great as Scorsese - it's a shame films set in the Midlands are never gonna break box office records as much as films set in New York can.



I agree - he is my favourite director, and i look forward to his films as much as any other director - more in fact.

Loved him since Smalltime, thought he was well talented after 24/7 and after Room for Romeo Brass he became my favourite director, went off him a bit after Once Upon a time in the Midlands, but completely loved him agian after Dead Man's Shoes.

Been looking forward for this since i heard he was making it - it was called Oi England Belongs to Me during filming.

How can i wait till april? Hope i fall into a coma or something till then!


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## Pie 1 (Nov 15, 2006)

Donna Ferentes said:
			
		

> Great as in Scorsese or Hitchock, or merely quite good?



Scorsese's last couple of efforts have only been merely quite good tbh.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 15, 2006)

Donna Ferentes said:
			
		

> Great as in Scorsese or Hitchock, or merely quite good?



How many are?

It's good that the UK has produced a decent director, why automatically ask whether they are as great as the all-time greats...

ALso I doubt we will hang on to him for long, if Dead Man's Shoes is anything to go by, he will be following Nolan into Hollywood before we know it.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 15, 2006)

Been looking for some of his other films.  Seems even karagarga doesn't have them


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## Donna Ferentes (Nov 15, 2006)

Pie 1 said:
			
		

> Scorsese's last couple of efforts have only been merely quite good tbh.


That's true: but I was thinking of Scorsese at his peak, when he really was great. Great to the power of great.


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## Orang Utan (Nov 15, 2006)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> ALso I doubt we will hang on to him for long, if Dead Man's Shoes is anything to go by, he will be following Nolan into Hollywood before we know it.


I don't think he wants to, neither do I think it would be a good idea


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## Orang Utan (Nov 15, 2006)

Donna Ferentes said:
			
		

> That's true: but I was thinking of Scorsese at his peak, when he really was great. Great to the power of great.


Well judging by his last two films, he's at the Mean Streets stage, so maybe he has a King Of Comedy or Goodfellas in him - a fatuous comparison you will no doubt point out. Actually, I don't think it's at all fatuous and will go further and say that Paddy Conisidine is comparable to Scorsese's De Niro


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## Flashman (Nov 15, 2006)

Paddy pops up in the odd music video, from memory I've seen him in a Moloko one and a Coldplay one.

More Paddy Considine facts and fun tomorrow.


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## Moggy (Nov 15, 2006)

Sooooo looking forward to it!  

I'll have to sit and salivate til next April then...


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## Dubversion (Feb 18, 2007)

just watched this.

it's not perfect but it's absolutely brilliant for the most part.

The nearest evocation i've ever seen of my teenage years (not geographically, but the mood). Meadows gets fantastic performances out of his actors - everyone, even fairly minor characters, acts their socks off. Some of the most convincing naturalistic roles - i guess it must be semi-improvised?

just excellent, and, inevitably, really really sad


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## Dubversion (Feb 18, 2007)

oh, and it makes American History X look like the glib sensationalist crap it is - no easy answers in this one


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## k_s (Feb 18, 2007)

This was filmed in a cafe where i was working at the time, they completely gutted the place and rebuilt it to look like an 80's greasy spoon, then put everything back together again just like it was once they'd finished. Nobody told them there was a cafe _exactly_ like the set they built just down the road


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## STFC (Feb 19, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> just watched this.



Lucky bugger. How'd you manage that then?

Just had a look on shanemeadows.co.uk and it appears that the rest of us will have to wait until 24 April.


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## Dubversion (Feb 19, 2007)

STFC said:
			
		

> Lucky bugger. How'd you manage that then?



i KNOW people 




			
				STFC said:
			
		

> Just had a look on shanemeadows.co.uk and it appears that the rest of us will have to wait until 24 April.



it's tough being a pleb


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## upsidedownwalrus (Feb 19, 2007)

k_s said:
			
		

> This was filmed in a cafe where i was working at the time, they completely gutted the place and rebuilt it to look like an 80's greasy spoon, then put everything back together again just like it was once they'd finished. Nobody told them there was a cafe _exactly_ like the set they built just down the road


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## neilh (Feb 22, 2007)

saw it a couple of nights ago, was cracking, really enjoyed it; but would agree that my only minor criticism (and it is very minor) is that it did seem a bit artificially too much in the time; ie all graff seemed to be about oi!, punk, NF or two-tone, radio in the background playing soft cell's tainted love cover; 

but over all, fantastic

thought combo's character especially was brilliant, plus the group dynamics when he came on the scene


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## Dubversion (Feb 22, 2007)

*Spoiler Alert - Kinda*




			
				neilh said:
			
		

> thought combo's character especially was brilliant, plus the group dynamics when he came on the scene



definitely - it seemed like a brave move for Meadows to draw us to wonderful characters like Woody & Lol and then have them sidelined by the demands of the story..


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## camouflage (Feb 22, 2007)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> It's set in 1983 and is about skinheads.
> I'm absurdly excited about it. Is anyone else?



Bet it won't be as good as Romper Stomper.


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## jbob (Feb 22, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> oh, and it makes American History X look like the glib sensationalist crap it is - no easy answers in this one



Ah, now that is a pertinent comment. Can't wait to see it.


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## dogmatique (Mar 12, 2007)

A screener of this has just appeared on t'internet...


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## Part 2 (Mar 12, 2007)

Where?


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## treelover (Mar 12, 2007)

Why watch a bootleg of it? if you keep doiing this and not paying to see it at the the cinema, then important independent UK films such as this simply won't get made anymore..




> A screener of this has just appeared on t'internet...


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## Dubversion (Mar 12, 2007)

well i watched a preview copy and i'll be going to see it as well


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## dogmatique (Mar 12, 2007)

treelover said:
			
		

> Why watch a bootleg of it? if you keep doiing this and not paying to see it at the the cinema, then important independent UK films such as this simply won't get made anymore..



I'll be seeing at the pics too, just didn't want to wait another month.


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## D'wards (Mar 15, 2007)

dogmatique said:
			
		

> I'll be seeing at the pics too, just didn't want to wait another month.



Saw this last night - fantastic.

I am in the same boat - i will defo be seeing this at the pictures, but have downloaded it cos i could not wait! Will probably purchase it on dvd an all - Film4 will get their pound of flesh!


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## Chorlton (Mar 19, 2007)

Decent enough... no dead mans shoes but decent enough particularly some of the individual performances.... couple of things lept out at me tho... the first being the scene in the abandoned hall when gadget breaks down and fells that he is being undermined and they all have a group hug... how fucking post-millenial emo was that?? The second was  - it was all about 'britain' in the 80s was it not, (admittedly i didn't live here in the 80s) but as you can see from footage its all union flags and the fash's literature was all about britain, made in britain etc... the england stuff is fairly recent was my understanding?


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## upsidedownwalrus (Mar 19, 2007)

Chorlton said:
			
		

> The second was  - it was all about 'britain' in the 80s was it not, (admittedly i didn't live here in the 80s) but as you can see from footage its all union flags and the fash's literature was all about britain, made in britain etc... the england stuff is fairly recent was my understanding?



Yes - I was just thinking the same thing actually.


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## Divisive Cotton (Mar 19, 2007)

I've got this sitting my harddrive at home with another couple of Meadows films. Must watch soon - memo to self.


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## Jenerys (Mar 19, 2007)

So glad there is a thread about this film! Saw it over the weekend - it rocks and I want to rave about it! I thought Shane Meadows must be the same guy who made Dead Mens Shoes, but am glad this thread confirmed it. 

I loved the scenery - the midlands actually looked lovely in some parts. And loved Woody and Lol - they reminded me of the older kids I used to hang around with at school cos I was getting bullied who didnt beat up the pakistanis who owned the sweet shop or the only black kid at our school. I only stopped hanging out with them cos they all got too heavily into glue and their hair started falling out   




			
				Chorlton said:
			
		

> the first being the scene in the abandoned hall when gadget breaks down and fells that he is being undermined and they all have a group hug... how fucking post-millenial emo was that??


Yeah my only criticism.

Thomas Turgoose was amazing! I also loved the romance between him and "Smell" 

What a brilliant story


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## Chorlton (Mar 19, 2007)

LilJen said:
			
		

> Thomas Turgoose was amazing! I also loved the romance between him and "Smell"
> 
> What a brilliant story



i actaully found that really hard to watch.... maybe it was the age difference between them looked to be huge... maybe it was such lines as 'do you want to suck my tits now?'


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## Jenerys (Mar 19, 2007)

Actually yeah, that bit was a bit difficult, but the rest of the romance came across as pretty innocent.


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## jodal (Mar 23, 2007)

Watched it last night, brilliant!


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## D'wards (Mar 24, 2007)

Interesting point about this film - it is being rated 18, which no one can understand.

Why would that be?

http://shanemeadows.proboards39.com...n=display&thread=1172164563&page=1#1172164563


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## Part 2 (Mar 27, 2007)

*The better thread revived*

Watched it last night, great stuff.

It's one of those films that reminds me of my youth for loads of reasons. I don't want to spoil anything and I'll be seeing it again once it's released aswell as dragging everyone I know along.

Great performance from the young Turgoose. My favourite bit was the shoe shop, just so much like my own experiences of trying my hardest to get my Mum to buy me DMs.

Excellent soundtrack too, although I expected only skin/2tone stuff it was good mixed up with the Warp stuff.


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## Dubversion (Apr 2, 2007)

D'wards said:
			
		

> Interesting point about this film - it is being rated 18, which no one can understand.
> 
> Why would that be?



according to a small Observer piece today, it's because the BBFC shat themselves about the racial language, "giving the wrong signals" or something. What toss.

Meadows could probably have recut, but that was never going to happen.

his next film is about a prostitute called Mary, which should be interesting..


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## King Biscuit Time (Apr 3, 2007)

I've just booked tickets for a screening in the showcase in Sheffield on Sat 28th April. Theres a Q&A with Shane Meadows and (producer) Mark Herbert after


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## Orang Utan (Apr 12, 2007)

Watched this AGAIN last night and it just gets better - it comes out on St George's Day and I urge you to go and see it - it needs your support as it's up against Spiderman 3!


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## Orang Utan (Apr 12, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> according to a small Observer piece today, it's because the BBFC shat themselves about the racial language, "giving the wrong signals" or something. What toss.
> 
> Meadows could probably have recut, but that was never going to happen.


I was speaking to the producer, Mark Herbert, last night (ooh la di da) and he said that it was given an 18 by the BBFC for the violence as well as the language, but that many local councils (Bristol, Westminster and Sheffield are the only ones I can remember) are overturning this and letting 15 year olds in


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## Dubversion (Apr 12, 2007)

ah yeh, cos certificates are voluntary / advisory aren't they? I forgot that. Good on them


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## Rollem (Apr 12, 2007)

i love shane meadows. 24/7 is one of my fav films!

saw interview with him and herbert, and clips of 'this is england' - looks great. 

i will be witing until 27th to watch it thoguh, cant wait. the kid in it has never acted before apparently!


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## Orang Utan (Apr 12, 2007)

Rollem said:
			
		

> the kid in it has never acted before apparently!


yeah, I heard some great stories about him, esp about the filming of the kissing scene


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## upsidedownwalrus (Apr 12, 2007)

I lent this to a Canadian friend today.  Shall be interesting to see what he thinks


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## Orang Utan (Apr 12, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> I lent this to a Canadian friend today.  Shall be interesting to see what he thinks


It was received very well in Toronto - in fact, that's where its world premiere was


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## upsidedownwalrus (Apr 12, 2007)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Watched this AGAIN last night and it just gets better - it comes out on St George's Day and I urge you to go and see it - it needs your support as it's up against Spiderman 3!



It's definitely one of those films which is rewatchable, isn't it?


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## London_Calling (Apr 20, 2007)

Just looked at the listings for this week  and - bollocks - The Lavender Hill Mob was on at the Ritzy at 11.00am this morning   I could have done that.


Not to worry, This is England  is showing on Sunday morning *Sun Apr 22*, also at 11.00am.


Wonder why's it's only for one showing . . .


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## Orang Utan (Apr 20, 2007)

London_Calling said:
			
		

> Just looked at the listings for this week  and - bollocks - The Lavender Hill Mob was on at the Ritzy at 11.00am this morning   I could have done that.
> 
> 
> Not to worry, This is England  is showing on Sunday morning *Sun Apr 22*, also at 11.00am.
> ...


That's a preview - probably booked up now


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## London_Calling (Apr 20, 2007)

Ah yes, probably.

Oh well, sorry 'bout that.


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## Dask (Apr 20, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> It's definitely one of those films which is rewatchable, isn't it?



Yup have watched it 3 times.

Am gonna go and see it next week on the big screen.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Apr 20, 2007)

My cannuck friend still hasn't watched it - hopefully he'll give it a go this weekend and let me know.

A friend back in the UK who I consider quite a seasoned cineaste - he prefers arthouse/european films etc - gave Dead Man's Shoes a go recently and wasn't impressed with it


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## upsidedownwalrus (Apr 27, 2007)

So far, mediocre reviews in independent, telegraph and guardian, good review in the ES and Channel 4.

Channel 4 also have this to say:

As Meadows has revealed, in the film's backstory Combo (like Stephen Graham, the actor who plays him) is mixed-race.


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## andy2002 (Apr 27, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> As Meadows has revealed, in the film's backstory Combo (like Stephen Graham, the actor who plays him) is mixed-race.



Saw the film this morning and, with a couple of minor reservations,tought it was great. Stephen Graham's performance was just superb - he actually made me feel terribly sorry for Combo.

I hope his acting career really takes off now because he deserves better than having to appear in shite TV such as The Innocence Project.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Apr 27, 2007)

Agreed, he and the kid are undoubtedly the stars.

Am I the only person who found an eerie similarity between Combo and Russell Crowe's character from Romper Stomper?  I mean there are going to be similarities with such obviously similar characters, but nevertheless...


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## Sunspots (Apr 27, 2007)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> I was speaking to the producer, Mark Herbert, last night (ooh la di da) and he said that it was given an 18 by the BBFC for the violence as well as the language, but that many local councils (Bristol, Westminster and Sheffield are the only ones I can remember) are overturning this and letting 15 year olds in



Acording to this front page report in our local _(Daily Mail-affiliated)_ rag, Bristol is so far the only council in the country to have granted this film a 15 certificate.

-Anybody know if this is actually the case, or have the aforementioned Westminster and Sheffield councils (-and others?) also done the right thing?


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## Geri (Apr 27, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> A friend back in the UK who I consider quite a seasoned cineaste - he prefers arthouse/european films etc - gave Dead Man's Shoes a go recently and wasn't impressed with it



Then he's a fool.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 27, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> Acording to this front page report in our local _(Daily Mail-affiliated)_ rag, Bristol is so far the only council in the country to have granted this film a 15 certificate.
> 
> -Anybody know if this is actually the case, or have the aforementioned Westminster and Sheffield councils (-and others?) also done the right thing?


I dunno, that's what Mark Herbert told me


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## DotCommunist (Apr 27, 2007)

Torrenting as we speak......ill buy a proper copy if it is any good


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## Serotonin (Apr 27, 2007)

Saw this a couple of nights ago and I was incredibly impressed. Not only a real nostalgia buzz but funny and harrowing all at once.

The scene with Milky describing his home life to Combo was so difficult to watch, superb acting.


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## mhwfc (Apr 28, 2007)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> Acording to this front page report in our local _(Daily Mail-affiliated)_ rag, Bristol is so far the only council in the country to have granted this film a 15 certificate.
> 
> -Anybody know if this is actually the case, or have the aforementioned Westminster and Sheffield councils (-and others?) also done the right thing?



FWIW, on Newsnight Review last night Kirsty Wark said that Bristol was so far the only council in the country to grant it a 15.


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## alef (Apr 28, 2007)

Beautiful film! One of the best I've seen in a very long time. Really loved it and am going to now see all of Meadow's previous films. 

I saw 24 7 when it first came out and it had no impact, but I'll give it another whirl. The sort of films I appreciate and respond to have changed a lot in the past ten years.


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## zenie (Apr 28, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> So far, mediocre reviews in independent, telegraph and guardian, good review in the ES and Channel 4.
> 
> Channel 4 also have this to say:
> 
> As Meadows has revealed, in the film's backstory Combo (like Stephen Graham, the actor who plays him) is mixed-race.




I never got that in the film?  

Saw this last night, really really, good. 

The beginnings really flattered the 'growing up' period in everyone's life but it was funny  Yer the fashions and clothes were  a bit OTT

I loved Lol and Woody in it, (well the guy that plays Woody is fuckin lovely too  ) and all the other bit characters just really made it. 

Bits of the film nearly had me in tears, it was so heartwrenching in places 

The end where Combo goes mental and just tried to kill eveyone is great - that bottling *ouch*  

It's no dead mans shoes but it's one for the DVD collection no mistake.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Apr 28, 2007)

I still think one of the best scenes is very early in the film when Shaun first meets the gang.  The "Harvey, what kind of a name is that" is just so spot on and really reminds me of real conversations back home


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## Dubversion (Apr 28, 2007)

that whole interplay between the gang members is some of the best 'acting' i've ever seen, just totally natural and goodhumoured and warm. you really want to be their mate


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## upsidedownwalrus (Apr 28, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> that whole interplay between the gang members is some of the best 'acting' i've ever seen, just totally natural and goodhumoured and warm. you really want to be their mate



I completely agree.  While I think that to some extent, as a film overall, the film is still a bit flawed (it's somehow hard to reconcile its two halves IMO), the way he captures it is, as you say, some of the most amazing, real and natural stuff I've ever seen, and that's why it's for me one of the best things i've seen in ages even if it is still flawed.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Apr 28, 2007)

So what's the general buzz been like in the UK about this film?  Have the showings been well attended?


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## Orang Utan (Apr 28, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> So what's the general buzz been like in the UK about this film?  Have the showings been well attended?


It only came out yesterday!
The reviews I've seen have been very very positive


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## zenie (Apr 28, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> So what's the general buzz been like in the UK about this film?  Have the showings been well attended?



I expected last nights screening @ The Ritzy to be full (sell out) but I suppose it was only 6.40, no idea whether the later screening was.

The whitey scene made ma laugh too  

I can remember my Mum in the 80's had the same deckchair holiday t-shirt that Shaun's Mum was wearing  

It was very indulgent wasn't it?

Some wicked haicuts too!!


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## Orang Utan (Apr 28, 2007)

Shane Meadows is the subject of this Sunday's South Bank Show BTW


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## Dubversion (Apr 28, 2007)

ah, excellent


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## upsidedownwalrus (Apr 28, 2007)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> It only came out yesterday!
> The reviews I've seen have been very very positive



I mean more - have a lot of people been talking about it who you wouldn't normally expect to talk about this sort of film?  Is it a 'breaktrhough' film?  Could it be a hit like Trainspotting or Full Monty?


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## Orang Utan (Apr 28, 2007)

I don't think so, though you never know.
All my friends are talking about it but the man on the Clapham omnibus is probably going to go to see Spiderman 3


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## Dubversion (Apr 28, 2007)

it does have something of a head of steam for a UK indie movie - it's discussed a lot that i've heard, though it's hard to know how much of that is a reaction to me ramming it down people's throats since the day I saw it


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## Orang Utan (Apr 28, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> it's discussed a lot that i've heard, though it's hard to know how much of that is a reaction to me ramming it down people's throats since the day I saw it


Heh heh you and me both


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## gaijingirl (Apr 28, 2007)

Just saw it tonight and really enjoyed it - the acting was superb.  But there were a couple of things I didn't like about it.  The relationship between Smell and Shaun just didn't ring true _at all_ (for me).  

Also, I thought it was a bit lazy that everyone who got involved with the NF side of things had some kind of obvious emotional (or mental in the case of Combo) problem.  I'm sure plenty of people who do want friends/lose a parent etc get sucked into situations like those particular characters did - but I was kind of disappointed that Combo turned out to basically be mentally deranged - it kind of made his actions seem forgiveable - or understandable at least.  Having some characters have empathetic storylines is one thing - but I do think that there are some people who get involved with organisations like the NF simply because they're nasty pieces of work and those kind of people weren't really represented by any of the main characters.

That's a lot of words of criticism though for a film that actually I really enjoyed.  The opening scene with all the shots of the 80s actually made me cry (although I am a bit emotional today).


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## madamv (Apr 28, 2007)

Looking forward to catching this this week.

Apparently, it could be getting more attention because most other films out at the moment are crap.  Apparently.


----------



## marty21 (Apr 29, 2007)

saw it earlier at the rio, very very good, although felt it dragged slightly in parts 

 - two key roles the kid and combo - brilliant,  

it was a 6.30 showing, 2/3 full maybe...


----------



## marty21 (Apr 30, 2007)

someone told me it was filmed in grimsby - the place looked pretty grim


----------



## Dubversion (Apr 30, 2007)

marty21 said:
			
		

> someone told me it was filmed in grimsby - the place looked pretty grim



Nah, Nottingham, he went round the locations with Melvyn Bragg on SBS last night


----------



## Dubversion (Apr 30, 2007)

gaijingirl said:
			
		

> Also, I thought it was a bit lazy that everyone who got involved with the NF side of things had some kind of obvious emotional (or mental in the case of Combo) problem.  I'm sure plenty of people who do want friends/lose a parent etc get sucked into situations like those particular characters did - but I was kind of disappointed that Combo turned out to basically be mentally deranged - it kind of made his actions seem forgiveable - or understandable at least.  Having some characters have empathetic storylines is one thing - but I do think that there are some people who get involved with organisations like the NF simply because they're nasty pieces of work and those kind of people weren't really represented by any of the main characters.



I don't know that 'everyone' did, just two - Combo and Sean. If you're making a character-driven piece, you're not going to be able - or willing - to represent every stripe of fascist. And those who arrive at the NF through some fucked up political awakening aren't going to make for a good movie. It's a drama, not a polemic, and i don't think Meadows had a responsibility to cover all the bases politically. Plus, there were others - the biker type, Frank Warren's character - who weren't portrayed as damaged.

The film is heavily based on Meadows' own life (even more than I already thought, judging by last night's South Bank Show) and I think it would have ruined the movie to include a well-balanced fascist leading character simply to tick a box.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 30, 2007)

It was filmed in Nottingham AND Grimsby - there's no beach in Nottingham! It is set in no specific town, just one one the coast in Lincolnshire


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 30, 2007)

Oh, and Dub, surely you mean Frank Harper? Frank Warren is a boxing promoter!


----------



## dtb (Apr 30, 2007)

i must say i was very impressed with this film, i saw the special preview at the NFT last week and stayed for the Q&A session with Meadows after the screening.  I also watched the South Bank Show last night, he told some of the same anecdotes about his life as a skinhead as he did at the NFT although some of the small details were slightly different.  If these stories were actually true they’re not the type of thing you’d get wrong when re-telling the story.

Also, the way in which he told his tales made me wonder how involved he actually was with the skinhead scene. I'm wondering whether his stories of his youth are much exagerrated, is a he really telling the story from his own perspective or is he just a very good observer of other peoples lives?  Is the lead character the kid he wanted to be when he was younger or was that actually what he was like, I guess only his friends and family know for sure.


----------



## zenie (Apr 30, 2007)

Also when they go hunting (which was so so funny!!) Woody has a better smoking jacket than Yetman


----------



## gaijingirl (Apr 30, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> I don't know that 'everyone' did, just two - Combo and Sean. If you're making a character-driven piece, you're not going to be able - or willing - to represent every stripe of fascist. And those who arrive at the NF through some fucked up political awakening aren't going to make for a good movie. It's a drama, not a polemic, and i don't think Meadows had a responsibility to cover all the bases politically. Plus, there were others - the biker type, Frank Warren's character - who weren't portrayed as damaged.
> 
> The film is heavily based on Meadows' own life (even more than I already thought, judging by last night's South Bank Show) and I think it would have ruined the movie to include a well-balanced fascist leading character simply to tick a box.



I didn't expect him to "tick boxes" - I don't know what boxes they would be exactly anyway. The point I made was that none of the "main" characters were portrayed as "undamaged" - I don't think that Frank Warren/Harper's biker character was a main character - he's not especially developed in any way at all.  I can understand why Meadows would choose to make the main characters have some kind of emotional trauma/weakness - as you say it's a drama - but it does seem a bit obvious to me.  Just my personal opinion.  I would have preferred it to be a little bit more challenging is all.  I'm not saying it's not a good film - I just think that have a few more facets to the characters would have made it a better one.


----------



## Reno (Apr 30, 2007)

gaijingirl said:
			
		

> Just saw it tonight and really enjoyed it - the acting was superb.  But there were a couple of things I didn't like about it.  The relationship between Smell and Shaun just didn't ring true _at all_ (for me).
> 
> Also, I thought it was a bit lazy that everyone who got involved with the NF side of things had some kind of obvious emotional (or mental in the case of Combo) problem.  I'm sure plenty of people who do want friends/lose a parent etc get sucked into situations like those particular characters did - but I was kind of disappointed that Combo turned out to basically be mentally deranged - it kind of made his actions seem forgiveable - or understandable at least.  Having some characters have empathetic storylines is one thing - but I do think that there are some people who get involved with organisations like the NF simply because they're nasty pieces of work and those kind of people weren't really represented by any of the main characters.
> 
> That's a lot of words of criticism though for a film that actually I really enjoyed.  The opening scene with all the shots of the 80s actually made me cry (although I am a bit emotional today).



I agree with a lot of what you are saying and felt that Combo, more than the other more rounded characters, was primarely there to move the plot along and to provide a dramatic conclusion to the film. There wasn't that much to him and Meadows falls back on the same plot structure in his films where a psychotic character explodes to bring the film to an explosive conclusion. Otherwise I think his films are great, but he'll have to move on in terms of structure and story.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Apr 30, 2007)

Good film, saw it last night. Can't fault the acting, some great performances and scenes, both funny and horrible. But there were some things in it that didn't ring true for me, at least not for the time that film was supposed to be set in. The clothes and haircuts were spot on, but for me it was like seeing my own teenage years in the early/mid 70's – I know skins is a fashion which has endured, but the film gave the impression that it was THE youth fashion in 1982, which isn't what I remember. And the emphasis on the St George cross flag was a glaring anachronism – in those days, you never saw one, it was all Union flags, and it was that which the National Front became associated with. And the variety of the characters' accents annoyed me too – it was clearly supposed to be set in a northern or midlands town, but Combo had a scouse accent and the older man (who seemed completely superfluous to the story throughout) was a Londoner. Or did I miss something?


----------



## Dubversion (Apr 30, 2007)

Dr. Furface said:
			
		

> but for me it was like seeing my own teenage years in the early/mid 70's – I know skins is a fashion which has endured, but the film gave the impression that it was THE youth fashion in 1982,



but the film isn't about all the kids in  britain in 1983, it's about ONE GROUP of kids in 1983. I don't think the film gives a false impression at all - you see other kids - non-skin kids - in the school playground and then you mostly just see Woody's mates and Combo's gang. That's it. 




			
				Dr. Furface said:
			
		

> And the variety of the characters' accents annoyed me too – it was clearly supposed to be set in a northern or midlands town, but Combo had a scouse accent and the older man (who seemed completely superfluous to the story throughout) was a Londoner. Or did I miss something?



You missed the way people move around the country sometimes.


----------



## STFC (Apr 30, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> So far, mediocre reviews in independent, telegraph and guardian, good review in the ES and Channel 4.
> 
> Channel 4 also have this to say:
> 
> As Meadows has revealed, in the film's backstory Combo (like Stephen Graham, the actor who plays him) is mixed-race.



Interesting that, because I thought it might be the case. It was as if he and Milky were pretty much the same, they had lots in common but whereas Milky identified more with the black/Jamaican side of his family, Combo went totally the other way. It's a shame that wasn't explored further. Combo seemed a bit too one dimensional, you were just waiting for him to explode, you knew it was coming, and it quickly became obvious when it was going to happen.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Apr 30, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> You missed the way people move around the country sometimes.


Yes, I guess maybe the cockney fella took Tebbit's advice and got on his bike to look for work - he was certainly stupid enough to try finding some in one of the country's worst unemployment areas.


----------



## Dubversion (Apr 30, 2007)

Dr. Furface said:
			
		

> Yes, I guess maybe the cockney fella took Tebbit's advice and got on his bike to look for work - he was certainly stupid enough to try finding some in one of the country's worst unemployment areas.




don't you think you're being a bit obtuse. I don't know why there was a guy with a London accent involved, any more than I know why my neighbour when i was a kid was a geordie.


----------



## Reno (Apr 30, 2007)

Dr. Furface said:
			
		

> But there were some things in it that didn't ring true for me, at least not for the time that film was supposed to be set in. The clothes and haircuts were spot on, but for me it was like seeing my own teenage years in the early/mid 70's – I know skins is a fashion which has endured, but the film gave the impression that it was THE youth fashion in 1982, which isn't what I remember.



As it dealt with skinheads, inevitably a lot of the lead characters dressed in a skin/mod way, but Smell for instance had an early Madonna/Boy George thing going on and the kids at the school weren't skin heads either.


----------



## gaijingirl (Apr 30, 2007)

The guy with the London accent - I read that as being that he too was somehow "under the power" of Combo - we are first introduced to him as he carries out a practical "joke" under Combo's bidding and the last we see of him is his being bottled by Combo.  They had been in prison together - and presumably released together.  Already marginalised by his criminal past and quite possibly with nowhere else to go (same themes of marginalisation evident in the fat kid/Shaun etc) he sticks with Combo - who provides an attractive alternative.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Apr 30, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> don't you think you're being a bit obtuse. I don't know why there was a guy with a London accent involved, .


Yeah, probably. I'm still trying to figure out what the point of him was in the film at all!


----------



## Dr. Furface (Apr 30, 2007)

gaijingirl said:
			
		

> The guy with the London accent - I read that as being that he too was somehow "under the power" of Combo - we are first introduced to him as he carries out a practical "joke" under Combo's bidding and the last we see of him is his being bottled by Combo.  They had been in prison together - and presumably released together.  Already marginalised by his criminal past and quite possibly with nowhere else to go (same themes of marginalisation evident in the fat kid/Shaun etc) he sticks with Combo - who provides an attractive alternative.


Thank you.


----------



## STFC (Apr 30, 2007)

gaijingirl said:
			
		

> The guy with the London accent - I read that as being that he too was somehow "under the power" of Combo - we are first introduced to him as he carries out a practical "joke" under Combo's bidding and the last we see of him is his being bottled by Combo.  They had been in prison together - and presumably released together.  Already marginalised by his criminal past and quite possibly with nowhere else to go (same themes of marginalisation evident in the fat kid/Shaun etc) he sticks with Combo - who provides an attractive alternative.



Wrong character I think. I took the Londoner to mean the older bloke with glasses, the one out of Operation Good Guys. The one who was in prison with Combo was the big fella with the moustache.


----------



## gaijingirl (Apr 30, 2007)

STFC said:
			
		

> Wrong character I think. I took the Londoner to mean the older bloke with glasses, the one out of Operation Good Guys. The one who was in prison with Combo was the big fella with the moustache.



Oh ok.. well that was my reading of the big fella with the moustache so.

The older guy with the glasses was a bit odd - but I got the impression that he was a bit slow and very clearly also marginalised (very like the younger fat boy who was in a school class below his peers) - hanging around with a bunch of kids with no job or friends or other "life" to speak of visible - I could imagine how that might well be something that is part of Meadow's experience growing up - I know that growing up in the 80s myself there often was older "dropout" types who would hang around - the rest of their generation having moved on, had kids etc.  I don't suppose that has changed much now?


----------



## bmd (May 2, 2007)

Reno said:
			
		

> I agree with a lot of what you are saying and felt that Combo, more than the other more rounded characters, was primarely there to move the plot along and to provide a dramatic conclusion to the film. There wasn't that much to him and Meadows falls back on the same plot structure in his films where a psychotic character explodes to bring the film to an explosive conclusion. Otherwise I think his films are great, but he'll have to move on in terms of structure and story.



Yeah, I agree. The whole bit about how he was left by his dad, that he would never leave Sean, the scene with Lol in his car and various others seemed to be setting him up for the end scene with Milky without really saying anything about anything.

I thought he was spot on when just exploring the rites of passage stuff and the gang interplay, the fact that they were skinheads just made them look good. But then, of course, you can't be a skinhead without some psycho-nazi coming along and attempting to lead you into racism and NF membership.

Great film though.


----------



## onenameshelley (May 3, 2007)

great film saw it last night, spent most of it holding my face in horror waiting for it to kick off, but then again i felt the same way when i watched dead mans shoes i knew it was coming just had to sit and wait for it feeling mildly tense the whole way through. Not being funny but if you had been milky would you have gone off with Combo cos sure as fuck wouldn't have?

Dunno if i am the only one who felt a bit grim about Smell and her strange lust for a 12 year old? I assumed that she was 15-16 maybe a bit older i dunno it just made me feel a bit unsure, but i suppose its no different to a boy of 16 wanting to go out with a 12 year old girl i suppose? Dunno i though Smell was ace and man her make up rocked! 

As for the wee man Turgoose (sp) he is ace and i hope that he gets the recognition for what thought was a class piece of acting! My only complaint not enough Roland Rat 

It has how ever rekindled my love of skins fashion, I am off to get a pair of cherry red DM's for sure 

Oh and i think i fell in love a little bit with Woody  also known as "Eli Dingle"


----------



## onenameshelley (May 3, 2007)

Oh and one more thing, the cross tattoos what do they mean again? I knew what most of the others meant/stood for but i am buggered if i can remember what the crosses are for? Any clues peeps?


----------



## Part 2 (May 3, 2007)

onenameshelley said:
			
		

> Dunno if i am the only one who felt a bit grim about Smell and her strange lust for a 12 year old? I assumed that she was 15-16 maybe a bit older i dunno it just made me feel a bit unsure, but i suppose its no different to a boy of 16 wanting to go out with a 12 year old girl i suppose? Dunno i though Smell was ace and man her make up rocked!



The first girls me and my mate went with at around the same age were a good four years older than us. It was top!

Heard Meadows, Graham and Turgoose on radio 1 this afternoon. SM was saying Smell was a real person, even called her by her name and said her boyfriend now is a right hard bastard. He also never knew SG was mixed race until after he'd done the audition. TT sounds like any young kid out there, he was saying everytime they wanted him to meet someone new to do with the film or go to a meeting he upped the amount they gave him, starting with a fiver and worked his way up to a mini moto, video camera and PS2 games. Sounded like they were best of mates and had a right laugh making the film.

It was on Edith Bowmans show. Okay she's a dick but the interviews worth listening to for the story about Meadow's dad alone. Just forward it to about 1hour 38 mins.


----------



## Chuff (May 4, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> but not ska-punk?



The correck term is skunk  established long before this bloody wiffa ganga yar!


----------



## Chuff (May 4, 2007)

I posted just before i went to see it and am just back. Well I had to sit in the emotional experience for a bit first. As we walked out someone said 'harrowing' and it felt a bit like that, I keep thinking i can smell glue.

The switching between being a mate and a victim was to fucking true and really made me uncomfortable, it was really like that you were always on edge wondering if one of the nutters was going to kick off and a bit glad when it wasn't you that got it, the whole belonging and feeling big and powerful and hard but really being afraid.

for all those posters talking about there being too many damaged people in the film  I know someone who robbed his fucking girlfriend when she went on holiday, people regularly kicked shit out of each other if there was no external target and a nerve got touched, there was a pecking order and juts like in the film the bottom person got all the shit (brains or Braun kept you off the bottom)

I came out of the film feeling shell shocked, but wanting to stay in that space for a while, I can still remember the first person i knew challenging a racist comment and really respecting the guy (my mum also used to piss the whole estate off by inviting black kids to my birthday parties) I can also remember black kids being part of skin gangs and joining in the racism, estate took precedence over genes.

A really accurate portrayal of my life as a teen in the early eighties


----------



## Mysterymonster (May 4, 2007)

Fuckin ell.  Just been to see this film and feel like I just took a time machine back to my teenage years.  Intense.


----------



## Wilf (May 6, 2007)

saw it last night - fucking excellent - despite the anachronisms mentioned (group hugs in 1983 Nottingham FFS!).  The emotional complexities were spot on - being in one gang, feeling you might have betrayed them, wanting to get back in with the old ones, not knowing if you've gone too far etc.

One thing pissed me off though - the cinema audience.  There were a few groups laughing along at very much the wrong places - particularly when the racists were abusing the Asians in the films.  Cunts.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (May 6, 2007)

4thwrite said:
			
		

> One thing pissed me off though - the cinema audience.  There were a few groups laughing along at very much the wrong places - particularly when the racists were abusing the Asians in the films.  Cunts.



I went to see Schindler's List in Bangalore... the Indian audience all laughed every time someone Jewish was killed


----------



## frida (May 6, 2007)

*this is england*

I saw the film yesterday.I found myself clock watching.I found it boring.I just thought it was not well made.I was 16 in the falklands and whilst i did enjoy the cultural refs I thought it was a bit cliche.Everyone I know loves it-but me-no...the best film i have seen recently is that Pans Labyrinths.
The Shaun character was too young looking and i could not believe his mum did not seem bothered about what he was up to!he was 12!


----------



## onenameshelley (May 6, 2007)

4thwrite said:
			
		

> One thing pissed me off though - the cinema audience.  There were a few groups laughing along at very much the wrong places - particularly when the racists were abusing the Asians in the films.  Cunts.




We saw it at the ritzy and there was dumbfounded silence most of the time, i suspect *if* they had bothered to show it where i grew up people would have been pissing themselves at the racist parts, then again its only a ten minute walk to where the BNP head quarters used to be so it wouldnt have been a shock to discover half the audience at Cineworld Bexleyheath are morons


----------



## SubZeroCat (May 7, 2007)

I saw it last night, I enjoyed it very much. Laughed a lot and almost cried


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (May 8, 2007)

american journo in entirely-missing-the-point shock!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (May 8, 2007)

We tried to watch this on Sunday night at the Rio - enjoyed what we did see but the sound kept breaking down. After the third mute with staff getting ready to rewind again, we had enough and walked out which was a shame cos i'd enjoyed what i had seen. Maybe try again tonight.


----------



## LDR (May 8, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> american journo in entirely-missing-the-point shock!


I think that this film doesn't travel welll.  I've seen it and while I think it's a ok film, I don't think it's a great one at all and I was initially surprised at how highly rated it's been by other posters.   It's not a film I would have ever recommended others to watch.

Many people have said it reminds them of their childhoods and what growing up was like for them in Thatchers Britain.  I simply can't relate to that at all so the film doesn't resonate the same way for me and I expect the film reviewer had the same problem.


----------



## Reno (May 8, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> american journo in entirely-missing-the-point shock!




I wouldn't call someone who struggles with basic grammar to this extend a journalist or worry too much about the opinions of another film geek with a blog. So far the film got excellent reviews from professional US film critics who have seen the film at festivals.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (May 8, 2007)

LD Rudeboy said:
			
		

> I think that this film doesn't travel welll.  I've seen it and while I think it's a ok film, I don't think it's a great one at all and I was initially surprised at how highly rated it's been by other posters.   It's not a film I would have ever recommended others to watch.
> 
> Many people have said it reminds them of their childhoods and what growing up was like for them in Thatchers Britain.  I simply can't relate to that at all so the film doesn't resonate the same way for me and I expect the film reviewer had the same problem.



I suppose.

But when I was a kid I had my head buried in a book, I was oblivious to music, etc, fashions, and the world around me, and it still resonated.

On a different, off-topic note, I finally watched In My Father's Den, which you recommended a while back.  Good stuff.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (May 8, 2007)

Reno said:
			
		

> I wouldn't call someone who struggles with basic grammar to this extend a journalist or worry too much about the opinions of another film geek with a blog. So far the film got excellent reviews from professional US film critics who have seen the film at festivals.



Cool... have you got any links to other US reviews?


----------



## Reno (May 8, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Cool... have you got any links to other US reviews?



http://uk.rottentomatoes.com/m/this_is_england/

Variety, Salon.com and Premiere all gave the film excellent reviews and they are among the most influential US magazines.


----------



## LDR (May 8, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> On a different, off-topic note, I finally watched In My Father's Den, which you recommended a while back.  Good stuff.


Glad you enjoyed it.  I don't know anyone else who has seen it.


----------



## Reno (May 8, 2007)

LD Rudeboy said:
			
		

> Glad you enjoyed it.  I don't know anyone else who has seen it.



I have. I thought it was ok.


----------



## LDR (May 8, 2007)

Reno said:
			
		

> I have. I thought it was ok.


It reminded me of my childhood growing up in small town NZ.


----------



## Gramsci (May 8, 2007)

onenameshelley said:
			
		

> We saw it at the ritzy and there was dumbfounded silence most of the time, i suspect *if* they had bothered to show it where i grew up people would have been pissing themselves at the racist parts, then again its only a ten minute walk to where the BNP head quarters used to be so it wouldnt have been a shock to discover half the audience at Cineworld Bexleyheath are morons



  That was my experience as well.I did wonder whether it was an age difference.Most people there would have not been born or very small in the early 80s.Got the feeling that some people might not get it if they dont remember the period.Talked to a German I know and she seemed bemused by it.


----------



## Reno (May 8, 2007)

Gramsci said:
			
		

> Talked to a German I know and she seemed bemused by it.



That seems odd considering that skinheads are still massive in Germany.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2007)

4thwrite said:
			
		

> .
> 
> One thing pissed me off though - the cinema audience.  There were a few groups laughing along at very much the wrong places - particularly when the racists were abusing the Asians in the films.  Cunts.


Some of it is funny though, like when the BoSelecta bloke takes a shit


----------



## Gramsci (May 8, 2007)

gaijingirl said:
			
		

> Just saw it tonight and really enjoyed it - the acting was superb.  But there were a couple of things I didn't like about it.  The relationship between Smell and Shaun just didn't ring true _at all_ (for me).
> 
> Also, I thought it was a bit lazy that everyone who got involved with the NF side of things had some kind of obvious emotional (or mental in the case of Combo) problem.  I'm sure plenty of people who do want friends/lose a parent etc get sucked into situations like those particular characters did - but I was kind of disappointed that Combo turned out to basically be mentally deranged - it kind of made his actions seem forgiveable - or understandable at least.
> 
> That's a lot of words of criticism though for a film that actually I really enjoyed.  The opening scene with all the shots of the 80s actually made me cry (although I am a bit emotional today).



  I agree with Dubversion that not all the BNP characters were as damaged as Crombie.Though I agree it is the one weakness of the film.SM used the same type of mentally deranged character in Dead Mans Shoes-it worked in that film as it fitted in with the plot.

  In the context of this film the most scary bits were for example the BNP meeting in the pub and Crombies first speech to the gang when he comes out of prison.The speech by the BNP leader wasnt mad.SM didnt just portray the BNP supporters as mentally deranged but has having a point.Even if u didnt agree with it.These were the best parts of the film.Instead of going down the Ken Loach worthy road(the working class would have learnt the error of there ways and joined the SWP) SM at certain points in the film presents the far rights arguments.

  So it was also disapointing that in the end he is just another fucked up headcase.

   I also liked the way that he put in footage of Thatcher and the Falklands.She helped foster nationalism.The BNP picked it up.SM also I think made the film relevant to today.Its really annoying it got an 18 certificate.Its an important part of our history -though not the one that Gordan Brown wants to discuss.


----------



## Gramsci (May 8, 2007)

Reno said:
			
		

> That seems odd considering that skinheads are still massive in Germany.



  I dont think she understood the British context.


----------



## llantwit (May 8, 2007)

Reno said:
			
		

> That seems odd considering that skinheads are still massive in Germany.


But the skinhead culture in this film is very British, isn't it?


----------



## llantwit (May 8, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> I went to see Schindler's List in Bangalore... the Indian audience all laughed every time someone Jewish was killed


D'you know I'm glad you said that. I had a similar experience watching Alexander in Trivandrum - the bits of violence that weren't censored out were greeted with hoots of laughter that seemed utterly innapprpriate. I think what you saw might not ave been anti-semitism, but a wierd cultural difference that means Indian cinema audiences laugh at graphic violence. I'm gonna try and google this, now.
Or maybe I'll just start a thread about it.


----------



## Wilf (May 8, 2007)

Orang Utan said:
			
		

> Some of it is funny though, like when the BoSelecta bloke takes a shit


oh, yes, agreed.  Much of the film - particularly the first half was touching and even laugh out loud.  However i was in a cinema (in Middlesbrough) where a few groups were laughing along with the racist rants and even the attack on the shopkeeper.


----------



## zenie (May 8, 2007)

In fairness the friend I was sat with wen 'Ha!' when Sean called the shopkeeper a paki, not bvecause it was funny but in shock at what he heard ocme out of a childs mouth. i think people laugh, not because it's funny but because it's shocking.

He said he felt a few faces look at him in The Ritzy too!!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (May 9, 2007)

We finally managed to see the whole film last night. Thought it was a good, not great film. Some sterling perfomances from the cast, quite believeable characters and a story that was quite engaging, although at times, stretching credibility somewhat. I found it hard to accept Shawn going over to Combo from Woody, just because of the little Falklands speech - felt too much like a plot device simply inserted to move the story on, especially as Woody had even been given the seal of approval by ma just previously. And ma being oblivious to the presence of a psychopath in her son's life subsequently kept nagging away a bit as well.

Thomas Turgoose was great but Combo's character was even better imo - i lived next door to someone who was virtually identical to him when i first moved to London, and it was frightening how well Meadows captured the nature of someone so unhinged. I liked the way that aspects and facets of each character were drawn out in subtle ways and i thought the way that they fitted together was cleverly done. The ending was expected in many ways but no less explosive for all that. Good stuff, well worth a watch.


----------



## foo (May 9, 2007)

i'm finally going to see this on friday.


----------



## onenameshelley (May 9, 2007)

zenie said:
			
		

> In fairness the friend I was sat with wen 'Ha!' when Sean called the shopkeeper a paki, not bvecause it was funny but in shock at what he heard ocme out of a childs mouth. i think people laugh, not because it's funny but because it's shocking.
> 
> He said he felt a few faces look at him in The Ritzy too!!




yeah i can see what you mean, its like when a small kid swears, its funny because its so inappropriate and its the shock that makes you laugh.

I am not remotely surprised he got given looks in the ritzy though it can be that sort of place  Home made cake with your fanta anyone


----------



## The_Reverend_M (May 10, 2007)

zenie said:
			
		

> In fairness the friend I was sat with wen 'Ha!' when Sean called the shopkeeper a paki, not bvecause it was funny but in shock at what he heard ocme out of a childs mouth. i think people laugh, not because it's funny but because it's shocking.



Exactly, you laugh in disbelief at what you've just heard.

Finally got to see this last night and loved it - think everything that can be said pretty much has been over the last seven pages!


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## raggamuffin (May 10, 2007)

I could barely sit through the whole thing. I felt unbelievably claustrophobic, tense and uncomfortable as soon as Combo steped into the sceen. 

Combo reminded me so much of the bullies I knew when I was young, setting up excuses to start fights and just the whole personality. One of the best films I've seen in a long time but I certainly didn't enjoy it.


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## Divisive Cotton (May 10, 2007)

raggamuffin said:
			
		

> I could barely sit through the whole thing. I felt unbelievably claustrophobic, tense and uncomfortable as soon as Combo steped into the sceen.
> 
> Combo reminded me so much of the bullies I knew when I was young, setting up excuses to start fights and just the whole personality. One of the best films I've seen in a long time but I certainly didn't enjoy it.



Quite. Great film - everybody left in silent shock at the end. Probably not the best of films to do on a date - although she really enjoyed it!

Fantastic characters - fantastic acting. 

Surely this will become one of the all time greats of British cinema


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## Gramsci (May 13, 2007)

onenameshelley said:
			
		

> I am not remotely surprised he got given looks in the ritzy though it can be that sort of place  Home made cake with your fanta anyone



  Stopped doing home made cakes years ago when the original Ritzy closed for the redevelopment.Used to be this nice lady who made them every week for the Ritzy.

  I dont drink Fanta that Nazi beverage .


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## corporate whore (May 14, 2007)

*false expectations*

Saw this film on Saturday night at the Curzon Soho - the achingly long bus ride home gave me ample time to ponder.

A lot of the reviews I had read - and I'd avoided this thread! - got me expecting a politically driven film, dealing with nationalism and alienation to the backdrop of a shit war, with all the parrallels one can draw with today.

The montage at the start - riots, Falklands, Thatcher - heightened those expectations, but it was clearly a personal story, about Sean's personal experiences, his acceptance into a group and his search for a father figure that led him to Woody then Combo. So the scene-setting at the start kinda jarred. What was the point? Why make such a definitive statement when the film's story is so very local?

Think I need to see it again with that in mind. Perhaps I'll get more out of it watching it for what it is, rather tan what I expeced it to be.

Also, I share various posters' annoyance that Combo turned out to be nothing more than an emotionally stunted fuck up. The frightening fascists were wearing suits and driving Jaguars.

Quality clobber, mind. Milky's Crombie/hat number was particularly pleasing..


----------



## Dubversion (May 14, 2007)

corporate whore said:
			
		

> So the scene-setting at the start kinda jarred. What was the point? Why make such a definitive statement when the film's story is so very local?




quite obviously to give a context both for Sean's loss and the drift to nationalsim that was going on against the backdrop of the Falklands. The Falklands war was a key theme throughout - from Sean's story to Combo's speeches.


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## goldenecitrone (May 14, 2007)

I don't know why but I have absolutely no desire to go and see this film. Maybe I'll watch it on DVD at some point in the future. Maybe it's something weird about me and the Eighties.


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## corporate whore (May 14, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> quite obviously to give a context both for Sean's loss and the drift to nationalsim that was going on against the backdrop of the Falklands. The Falklands war was a key theme throughout - from Sean's story to Combo's speeches.



Well yeah, but I saw that as making a statement: This is going to be a political film, with a message as relevant now as it was then. Meadows' insistence this should have a certificate that allowed a younger age group to see the film also led me to believe this to be the case.

For me, the film failed to deliver on that level. But, as I say, I'll see it again and enjoy it for what it is rather than what I thought it was going to be.


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## Dubversion (May 14, 2007)

i didn't get any sense it was proposing an explicitly political statement in its opening minutes, more providing a context. And Meadows wanted kids to see it because of issues around race and stuff, not about the Falklands, Thatcher etc.

I think you've picked up on an intention that wasn't there and have found it wanting on that basis.


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## corporate whore (May 14, 2007)

Possibly so. I reserve the right to be mildly disappointed.


----------



## Dubversion (May 14, 2007)

just seems odd to me - not having a pop, honestly - to decide in error that the film has a message / theme and then being disappointed the message / theme  isn't explored


----------



## corporate whore (May 14, 2007)

No pop taken. 

I didn't "decide" the film had a message, I was led to believe it did by what I'd read/heard in advance and the powerful opening montage only reinforced that belief. 

From then on I was expecting the film to develop in that way and I only began to realise it wouldn't when Combo had his 'two minutes' with Woody's girlfriend.

Maybe I should stop reading so much.  

There was plenty I did like - the characters, as ever with a Meadows flick, were superbly drawn and extremely well acted, particularly the little fella who played Sean. 
The look was great as well, from the clothes they wore and the cars they drove to the 'Maggie is a Twat' graffiti on the church. The scene where Milky goes round to Combo's place was extraordinarily intense - I was in dread, waiting for it all to kick off.


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## Part 2 (May 14, 2007)

Tbh I thought a lot was made of the montage by almost every review I read.

Especially Roland Rat for some reason


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## upsidedownwalrus (May 14, 2007)

Well, RD Jr loved the montage


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## spanglechick (May 14, 2007)

we saw this yeaterday, and while - on the whole - it was brilliant.  so refreshing to see really good acting from an ensemble... - i share reservations, similar to gaijingirl's.

I'd actually read no reviews at all, so apart from seeing a trailer and knowing public opinion was good, i didn't have much preconception.

I thought it dealt with some interesting stuff - the schism in the skinhead 'movement', as some became so inextricably involved in white supremacy.  all this told through the context of sean's needing a father figure.

but in the end, it just seemed a bit of a cop out.  the only skinhead who didn't see the error of his ways was mentally and emotionally dysfunctional / damaged (or, arguably, gadget - but he wasn't the full quid).  It wouldn't have taken away from any of the human elements of the story if the brightish, angry lad who initially joined with compo (vomit?) stayed with the NF cause.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 4, 2007)

I finally saw this last night on DVD and to be honest I was very dissappointed. 

Lots of it came accross like a particulalry crap piece of Theatre in Education. 

So much of it didn't ring true - from Woodys touchy feely, mulit cultural sunshine skinheads  talking freely about their feelings with each other to the wierd inconsistancy of the accents. 

The depiction of the far right in the film was just wrong. The fash skins of the times marched around festooned with swastikers and  sige hieling - they freely ranted about pakis and commies and singing genocidal ditties about what should be done to sort them out. 

No way would they have been reticicent about using the word 'paki' (as Combo is in his early encoutner with the gang) - it was (and still is) common parlance in white working class areas. The sort of speeches depicted at the NF meeting were heard on the streets every day - from mouths of tory MPs. The NF were pretty much openly Nazi. Casusal rascism was widepsread and only just starting to be challenged - people like Jim Davidson were doing their 'chalky' routines on national TV. Their were anti-fash skinheads - but these were highly politicised - not like woodys lot. 

A black skinhead would have been very usual - by the early 80s skinheads were strongly associated with football violence and far right politics.

The poiltical, socail backdrop - lazily established in the opening sequences - was then pretty much dithched. There was a passing reference to mass unemplyment and a picture of a few towerblocks and - apart from the falklands references - that was it. The characters seemed to operate in a vacumm apart from Combos rants.Their was no argument or debate between the charcters about racism, immigration, thatcher and unemployment.

The whole thing looked like it was an extended improvised piece - which meant a focus on interpersonal relationships - so yes you had some nice performances and moments (like the scenes with Sean and Smell) but also a lot of emo-babble which was totally inconsistant with how young working class people of the time would have communicated (certainly in the gang context). It also meant that the cast would be relyiing on there own understanding of the politics of the time and of the far right in particular - as a result it was all well off the mark (like the far right opposing the falklands war?!? ).

Combo ends up as a random psycho - his behavour explained though nods at his troubled emotional background - becasue obviously anyone who is racist and invovled in the far right must be either stupid or mad.  

Also it pissed me off that we seemeed to get 'sad' piano tinlking everytime something racist happened. 

The period and the politics all ended up been totally superflous and what was left was a film about the emotional interplay between a bunch of friends with some nice performances and some very clunky message about racism thrown in.  

Very very dissapointing - especially after all the bigging up here and in the press.

See 'Made in Britain' for a far, far better treatment of the same subject.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 4, 2007)

Sorry you didn't like it KT


----------



## Dubversion (Nov 4, 2007)

Kaka Tim said:
			
		

> I finally saw this last night on DVD and to be honest I was very dissappointed.
> 
> Lots of it came accross like a particulalry crap piece of Theatre in Education.
> 
> ...




sorry, i think you're wrong on pretty much every count. I'll come back to this but some of your criticisms are lazy bollocks. Weirdly inconsistent accents - wtf? That's their real accents, nothing being put on.

Haven't got time now, but i honestly think that while there are probably are some valid criticisms of the movie, yours are way off mark - very glib generalisations about the period. Just cos the characters don't fit your stereotypes of the period, doesn't mean they're wrong. And - by the way - it's a movie, not a documentary..

Combo was ONE racist skinhead. That was his take on things - Meadows isn't for a moment suggesting he was the norm.. I think  you're criticising it for not doing something that it never intended to anyway


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 4, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> .
> 
> . Just cos the characters don't fit your stereotypes of the period, doesn't mean they're wrong. And - by the way - it's a movie, not a documentary..
> 
> Combo was ONE racist skinhead. That was his take on things - Meadows isn't for a moment suggesting he was the norm.. I think  you're criticising it for not doing something that it never intended to anyway




They're not stereotypes - Im old enough to remeber the period very well. I knew plenty of skinheads, I was into the rude boy stuff myself. Not all skinheads were fash, but casual racism was pretty much the norm unless you were talking about the less numerous dedicated anti-facist skins. Terms like 'paki' and 'wog' were everyday parlance - the exception would not be someone using such terms - it was someone objecting to it.  

And the depiciton of the far right is just way off the reality - which Im pretty supriesed about seeing as meadows is old enough to remeber and was - I understood - into the music and skin/rudeboy seen. 

In the film Combo was depicted as some sort of abberation -  rather than a particualrly extreme version of pretty common attitudes at the time. 
As a result the period setting was almost entirely superflous - just a vehicle to hang some farily clunky psychodrama on. Rather than what the film seemed to be trying to be. 

A far more interesting film would be if Woody had been the one with the rascist views/far right views - i.e a sympathetic charcter with an abhorent ideology.


----------



## Dubversion (Nov 4, 2007)

i also remember the period very well and knew lots of skins. Many fitted your stereotype, some didn't, and some actively opposed it. 

What you don't seem to appreciate is that the story in the movie is pretty much based on Meadows' own real experiences at that time (dunno if you noticed that the kid is called Sean Fields) - specific incidents and characters he encountered, including one very horrible act of violence - so you can bang on as much as you want about it not being realistic, but he's telling his story, not seeking to offer a definitive docu-dramatic account of skinheads, the far right or Thatcher's Britain.


----------



## tommers (Nov 4, 2007)

I saw it recently too.  I was also a bit disappointed.  Not when i watched it - then I thought it was pretty decent but afterwards when i had time to digest it.  It just all felt a bit rushed.  One minute sean is with woody.  One slightly dodgy speech later he's ditched woody and gone off with combo.  Woody then basically doesn't appear in the film again.  He has a couple of cameos and that's about it.  It's like there's two separate films.

And what the fuck was going on with Sean and smell?  That just seemed really really odd. 

But still, when I watched it I liked it.  It was only once I explained what happened in it to other people that I started thinking it was all a bit disjointed and heavy handed.


----------



## Dubversion (Nov 4, 2007)

tommers said:
			
		

> I saw it recently too.  I was also a bit disappointed.  Not when i watched it - then I thought it was pretty decent but afterwards when i had time to digest it.  It just all felt a bit rushed.  One minute sean is with woody.  One slightly dodgy speech later he's ditched woody and gone off with combo.  Woody then basically doesn't appear in the film again.  He has a couple of cameos and that's about it.  It's like there's two separate films.



i thought that was a brave bit of film-making. To introduce a character as charismatic and likeable as Woody (and Lol et al) and then dispense with them because of the narrative arc...


----------



## tommers (Nov 4, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i thought that was a brave bit of film-making. To introduce a character as charismatic and likeable as Woody (and Lol et al) and then dispense with them because of the narrative arc...



welllll.... I suppose you could see it that way....  

Maybe I just built it up too much in my mind.  I thought it was going to be the best film I had ever seen...  80s, skinheads, bit of reggae...  what more did it need?  And it was pretty good.  You know, I liked it and everything, but it just wasn't as good as I thought it would be.


----------



## The Boy (Nov 4, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i thought that was a brave bit of film-making. To introduce a character as charismatic and likeable as Woody (and Lol et al) and then dispense with them because of the narrative arc...



Agreed.  I've not read any interviews with Meadows, but I got the impression it was a very deliberate move - the boy in the film would have missed his old mate and we experience that seem thing when Woody becomes a minor character .


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## Maurice Picarda (Nov 4, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> The Falklands war was a key theme throughout - from Sean's story to Combo's speeches.



Which was odd. Because however important the loss of his dad was to Sean, Meadows treated the Falklands conflict more widely as an ultra-significant and brutalising experience for the British national character. 

Which, IIRC, it wasn't. Although I wasn't that old at the time.


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## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 5, 2007)

tommers said:
			
		

> And what the fuck was going on with Sean and smell?  That just seemed really really odd.



Yes, but the actress who played her was only like two years older than the one who played Sean.  I thought those scenes actually demonstrated quite well the huge gap in maturity between boys and girls when we're in our teens.


----------



## Dubversion (Nov 5, 2007)

Maurice Picarda said:
			
		

> Which, IIRC, it wasn't. Although I wasn't that old at the time.



but it was, it really was. I got into a fight at school when I spoke out agains the war and some kid who's dad was out there thought I was dissing his father - there were lots of instances of that kind of social conflict. The war had a huge impact in lots of ways..


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## Kaka Tim (Nov 5, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i also remember the period very well and knew lots of skins. Many fitted your stereotype, some didn't, and some actively opposed it.
> 
> What you don't seem to appreciate is that the story in the movie is pretty much based on Meadows' own real experiences at that time (dunno if you noticed that the kid is called Sean Fields) - specific incidents and characters he encountered, including one very horrible act of violence - so you can bang on as much as you want about it not being realistic, but he's telling his story, not seeking to offer a definitive docu-dramatic account of skinheads, the far right or Thatcher's Britain.



What sterotype? I know not all skins were fash, some were actively anti-fash, some were apolitical but many still induging in casual racism.

What I found hard to take was the just how gentle and kind woodys gang were -  since when were teenage gangs so in touch with their feelings and undestadning of others? 

What was being depicted was some sort of stange world where then only racist was the unhinged violent loon instead of it being a common attitude and far more commonly expressed than it is now - It was like an episode of grange hill. 

Also the depection of the far right was totally inaccurate. 

you say its SM's film about his own experiecnes rather than a dram doc - but by calling it 'This is england' and having an openign montage placing squarly in the early 80s he seemed to be trying to deliver a piece of social realism/commentary. 

As it was the whole Skinhead thing, and the period it was set in, was almost entirly superflous. It could have been set anywhere. It looked liked a drama impro with young people with no real wider social context other than they were wearing the fashions of the time and you had a few shots of tower blocks to presumably suggest 'run down urban area'.

The inconsistent accents - Woody sounded like he was from Burnley, Combo sounded scouse, the asian shopkeeper sounded RP, woodys girlfreind sounded like she was south-est trying to do northern - it all jsut added to the lack of attention to detail. 

I really liked 24/7 and i really wanted to like this - but there you go. 

Have you seen Made in Britain dub?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 5, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> but it was, it really was. I got into a fight at school when I spoke out agains the war and some kid who's dad was out there thought I was dissing his father - there were lots of instances of that kind of social conflict. The war had a huge impact in lots of ways..



I agree with you on this though.


----------



## Dubversion (Nov 5, 2007)

Kaka Tim said:
			
		

> What was being depicted was some sort of stange world where then only racist was the unhinged violent loon instead of it being a common attitude and far more commonly expressed than it is now - It was like an episode of grange hill.



Well that's nonsense for a start - Combo isn't the only racist in the film, by any means. He's just the one that impacts on the group




			
				Kaka Tim said:
			
		

> Also the depection of the far right was totally inaccurate.



you think? in what way? although this film isn't supposed to be a 'depiction of the far right', the Frank Harper character and those scenes seemed to be pretty much as i expected..




			
				Kaka Tim said:
			
		

> you say its SM's film about his own experiecnes rather than a dram doc - but by calling it 'This is england' and having an openign montage placing squarly in the early 80s he seemed to be trying to deliver a piece of social realism/commentary.



Do you think? i thought he was just giving it a context, i wasn't expecting a history lesson or some all-embracing exposition on Thatcher's Britain. I was expecting what Meadows always delivers - human stories on a small scale. 




			
				Kaka Tim said:
			
		

> As it was the whole Skinhead thing, and the period it was set in, was almost entirly superflous. It could have been set anywhere. It looked liked a drama impro with young people with no real wider social context other than they were wearing the fashions of the time and you had a few shots of tower blocks to presumably suggest 'run down urban area'.



again, i don't see your point / the problem. Meadows was providing a slightly fictionalised account of a specific chain of event in his life. Surely it's 'anywhereness' serves to make it more accessible? i'm from the opposite end of the country but it felt exactly like that year did for me (i was the Shaun character's age, give or take, at that point). 




			
				Kaka Tim said:
			
		

> The inconsistent accents - Woody sounded like he was from Burnley, Combo sounded scouse, the asian shopkeeper sounded RP, woodys girlfreind sounded like she was south-est trying to do northern - it all jsut added to the lack of attention to detail.



so in your world nobody moves? Woody's girlfriend is from that part of the country, that's her own accent. Maybe Woody was from Burnley? fuck knows - that's a weird criticism. it's not Eddie Izzard doing hillbilly in the Riches, is it? 

As for your comment re: it seeming impro-ed. That's one of the film's - and Meadows' - strengths, IMO. Those kids seemed like they really were a gang, the banter and conversation was totally convincing, totally natural, the way the scenes were set up (the Milky and Combo scene took hours of really intense improvised work) was so realistic it made the film that much more compelling.




			
				Kaka Tim said:
			
		

> I really liked 24/7 and i really wanted to like this - but there you go.
> 
> Have you seen Made in Britain dub?



Yeh, and it's a great film. It's also a very different film so i don't see why liking one would lead to criticising the other.

I think - still - you're criticising the film for not delivering on a promise it never made. You've watched it expecting it to be a certain type of film and you're criticising it on that basis.

I wasn't expecting a polemic, or a docu-drama, i was expecting a story about one young guy's experiences. And that's what I got.


----------



## sam/phallocrat (Nov 5, 2007)

I reckon it was set in the East Riding somewhere.

(Oviosuly it wasn't actually set anywhere, but that's my guess)


----------



## Loupylou (Nov 5, 2007)

Kaka Tim said:
			
		

> What sterotype? I know not all skins were fash, some were actively anti-fash, some were apolitical but many still induging in casual racism.
> 
> What I found hard to take was the just how gentle and kind woodys gang were -  since when were teenage gangs so in touch with their feelings and undestadning of others?
> 
> What was being depicted was some sort of stange world where then only racist was the unhinged violent loon instead of it being a common attitude and far more commonly expressed than it is now - It was like an episode of grange hill.



that was my thoughts exactly on seeing the film. Where i was brought up (North Kent) there were loads of skinheads & it was a (very successful) recruiting ground for the NF due to the large Asian population. 
I didn't know any bloke who was caring/sharing like that with male friends- that part of the film made me squirm (even tho it was very sweet). The skinheads of the 80s were not the same as the earlier period in the 70s, they were racist just like most other people, apart from a few areas where there were exceptions (Brixton? i.e where the white skinheads couldn't have the upper hand). They were hypocrites who liked black music, even had black friends but would spout racism including in front of those friends. The idea of Woody being the leader of a skinhead gang is a joke. 
I was intriguiged before I saw the film how it was going to deal with the very common casual racisim of the time, & this is how it dealt with it, by minimising it with the most of the main characters being very sympathetic and anti-racist and lovey-dovey. 

But, I can understand the film maker's need to do that, it would have looked like, or been accused of being, a film glorifying racism & would have been unacceptable for our society as it is now.


----------



## Loupylou (Nov 5, 2007)

Kaka Tim said:
			
		

> The inconsistent accents - Woody sounded like he was from Burnley, Combo sounded scouse, the asian shopkeeper sounded RP, woodys girlfreind sounded like she was south-est trying to do northern - it all jsut added to the lack of attention to detail.



i agree with this as well - things like this really annoy me. I didn't notice the different accents cos I'm a southerner, but I do think, if you're going to make a film which is so clearly meant to be set in a certain area (no matter how universal the subject), get it right. 

There was a film made about 10 years ago, can't remember the name, set against the backdrop of 80s Glasgow gangs. I went to see it with Glaswegians, who were very pissed off that they'd decided to change the location of those gangs whose names they'd kept, to _different sides of the Clyde_, which is very weird considering the whole point of the gang is the territory it covers and the massive rivalry between North & South side. 
And also the main character (again, a young boy) had a posh Scottish accent even tho he was meant to be working class (even I picked up on that). 
Cue lots of loud pisstaking from said weegies and getting slung out of the cinema !
Especially if you area from the area they are setting the film in, it really detracts from your enjoyment of the film and ability ot get into it cos it's fucking annoying  and grates.


----------



## Loupylou (Nov 5, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> i also remember the period very well and knew lots of skins. Many fitted your stereotype, some didn't, and some actively opposed it.
> 
> What you don't seem to appreciate is that the story in the movie is pretty much based on Meadows' own real experiences at that time (dunno if you noticed that the kid is called Sean Fields) - specific incidents and characters he encountered, including one very horrible act of violence - so you can bang on as much as you want about it not being realistic, but he's telling his story, not seeking to offer a definitive docu-dramatic account of skinheads, the far right or Thatcher's Britain.



Yes I can see your point as well, but he did bring in the whole skinhead thing into it and also, there's been very few films with this culture in it so people were expecting more realism if you're going to portray it as real.


----------



## Loupylou (Nov 5, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> Yes, but the actress who played her was only like two years older than the one who played Sean.  I thought those scenes actually demonstrated quite well the huge gap in maturity between boys and girls when we're in our teens.



So maturity-wise she is about 5 years older and she's a young woman and he's a little pipsqueak. 

So she wouldn't have been getting off with a little boy. 
(I thought the main actor altho alright at acting was badly cast for that reason). 

Along with the lovey-dovey blokes, this also made me squirm.


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 5, 2007)

When I was 11 my mate and I used to meet 2 girls who were in the 5th year at the time. 

I'd say our own experiences were *very* much like Shaun's, bit of a grope, big sloppy frenchies and giving us hard ons.

There was nowt wrong with it


----------



## mhwfc (Nov 5, 2007)

sam/phallocrat said:
			
		

> I reckon it was set in the East Riding somewhere.
> 
> (Oviosuly it wasn't actually set anywhere, but that's my guess)



It's set in Nottingham I'd have thought, it was filmed in Lenton apart from the closing scene which was in Grimsby, and Shane Meadows is from Nottingham and it's based on his adolescent experiences.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 5, 2007)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> > Well that's nonsense for a start - Combo isn't the only racist in the film, by any means. He's just the one that impacts on the group
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Dubversion (Nov 5, 2007)

i still completely disagree. ah well


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 5, 2007)

And there wasn't nearly enough ska.


----------



## upsidedownwalrus (Nov 7, 2007)

I don't get why people criticise the accents thing.  The UK is a titchy country, which (as far as I know) has no laws (unlike China) requiring people to live in certain areas.  Yet even in China, we meet Chinese people who originate all over China, that's despite it's restrictive laws.  Expecting the people in one area to have one accent exclusively is just stupid IMO.  As dub said, people move!!!!! It isn't illegal!  Nor do the government tell people where to live!


----------



## Dubversion (Nov 7, 2007)

RenegadeDog said:
			
		

> I don't get why people criticise the accents thing.  The UK is a titchy country, which (as far as I know) has no laws (unlike China) requiring people to live in certain areas.  Yet even in China, we meet Chinese people who originate all over China, that's despite it's restrictive laws.  Expecting the people in one area to have one accent exclusively is just stupid IMO.  As dub said, people move!!!!! It isn't illegal!  Nor do the government tell people where to live!




AND the cast are all speaking in their own accents. And all come from the area, roughly. 

It's a bollocks argument, frankly


----------



## goldenecitrone (Nov 7, 2007)

Maurice Picarda said:
			
		

> Which was odd. Because however important the loss of his dad was to Sean, Meadows treated the Falklands conflict more widely as an ultra-significant and brutalising experience for the British national character.
> 
> Which, IIRC, it wasn't. Although I wasn't that old at the time.



I remember when the Falklands War was just starting and my best mate's dad was working for BNFL at the time. They were pretty conservative folk and my mate had made a poster of the Argentine flag with a cruise missile in the middle with the slogan 'Trident Now, Nuke the Bastards!' which he put in the back of his dad's car. That was the first time I started to have reservations about the people I was growing up with.


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## strummerville (Nov 8, 2007)

Kaka Tim said:
			
		

> And there wasn't nearly enough ska.



But by the time the film was set, most of the Skins were into Oi by then. Two Tone had pretty much died out and the whole original Ska thing was long gone. I remember going to a Sham gig (not strictly Oi I know) in '81 and it being full of Skins kicking off with Punks everywhere. Scariest gig I've been to. 

People forget how fucking aggressive Skins were then, if you were on a tube and a gang ogf them got on, you'd shit yourself. Didn't think the film got that aspect right as they made out it was just Compo and his pals. The whole point about being a Skin in the early 80's was alot about violence. 

It seemed to me Meadows made a film more about late '60's Skin culture set in the early 80's. But then again, maybe that was his take from his memories of where he grew up.


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## chico enrico (Nov 8, 2007)

not meaning to be a pedant but i think ur wrong mate. i was at sham 69's last ever gig at glasgow apollo and im pretty sure it was 1979 cos it was before i went to secondary school. could google but cant be bothered. it's late. very sure they'd split before 1981 tho. 

yes, there's lots of 'innaccuracies' in the film and i didnt particularly like it but basically what dub is saying is right. it's a 'personal voyage' film with a degree of 'artictic licence' for expediency of narrative so should be simply taken like that and allowances made.

ok?

now...pub time


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## mhendo (Nov 8, 2007)

_This is England_ has FINALLY come out over here. It's on at the local independent cinema house, and i'm off to see it this weekend. Really looking forward to it.


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## saucisson (Nov 18, 2007)

I quite enjoyed it, not the best fillum ever but an intresting personal story. I also enjoyed spotting RAF newton (near where I grew up) where they bust up the old houses....still sitting there and derelict now...interestingly in real life they were going to use the old RAF buildings to house asylum seekers but local pressure (and the more understandable reason that there no appropriate local facilities) made them reconsider.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/nottinghamshire/3872823.stm


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## Badgers (Nov 19, 2007)

Just got this last week but not seen it yet... 

Maybe tonight


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## girasol (Jan 3, 2008)

I've finally managed to see this today, and having forgotten about the hype and what it was about I wasn't quite sure what to expect - I was crying at the end of it.  Maybe it's the New Year Blues or something...

...But I think it's the best film I have seen in a long time.

I really don't give two figs about the 'innaccuracy of accents/clothes', it tells a story so well I already want to watch it again.


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## mozzy (Mar 24, 2008)

Phew!! I bumped this thread as I only got round to watching this last night and blinkin heck - what a film!!! I loved it - it was nostagic, harrowin, funny and shocking and also a little disapointing.

I wondered if Compo's psyconess and bittness towards other races was due to the fact he was actually half caste and his father had walked out of him as a child which is why he hated Milky - he was a "happy" Jamacian, whereas Combo was a lonely confused one. I was disapointed that this was not the case, but after readin others posts on this thread, at least I was correct in my judgement that Combo in Rl is from a mixed race backround.

My initial thougts to this film was an acute ashamedness of being white and livin through this hatred (I remember the attitudes some of my elders during my childhood of this time), but I also think Shane Meadows wanted the viewer to understand that that the white workin class and ethnic minorites were all victims of the same sword - Thatchers Capatilism.

I thought the music was excellent and the comedy was brilliant but didn't quite believe the scenes with Shaun and Shell - a bit wierd that!!!! I am guessing this may have been a little childhood fantasy of Meadow's prehaps!!


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## Orang Utan (Mar 25, 2008)

Yeah, Compo was a nutter wasn't he?


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## mozzy (Mar 25, 2008)

Whooops  post ammended <cringes>


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