# First-person vs Third-person



## Vintage Paw (Aug 10, 2009)

It's well documented I'm having issues getting into fps games on my lovely new shiny xbox. Which saddens me because so many of the great titles are fps.

I lose all sense of spatial context (I have wondered why I'm not moving anywhere when pushing the stick forward, only to realise I'm looking up at a ceiling and not at a wall). 

Having to use both sticks to both move AND look in the same direction seems counter-intuitive to me. 

I keep dying all over the shop because I can't see that evil fucker around the corner to my left who's shooting me. 

I seem to gel much more easily with 3rd person games. You turn to face left automatically when you move left. Plus the ability to see a little way around you is very useful to someone who gets killed easily. You can see the buggers coming.

I'm throwing sandbox vs linear narrative into the mix too. It just so happens that the 2 3rd person games I've played to death and liked since I've had the xbox were both sandbox style games, and the 3 fp games I've played weren't. I can't play Bioshock for more than an hour because I can't handle being alert and mildly freaked out 100% of the time. I like downtime where I can run around and explore or interact in other ways with the game environment that isn't part of a main mission. 

Is there any hope for me? Is it possible to re-wire your brain to find fp more intuitive and usable? I feel like I'm going to miss out on so much the xbox has to offer otherwise. 

And in the meantime, can anyone recommend any cracking 3rd person games? All I've really played properly so far is GTA IV and Fable II. Obv GTA is the daddy, but I liked Fable II a lot as well, even if it was rather twee. My friend mentioned Fallout 3 and Mass Effect. I haven't checked them out yet, I was looking for other recs before I jump in. 

Ta muchly.


----------



## TitanSound (Aug 10, 2009)

I have the solution. 

Get a PC and use a mouse and keyboard. Your FPS experience will improve dramatically


----------



## kained&able (Aug 10, 2009)

buy fallout three you can do first and third person and its quite fpsish and is probabley the best game ever made.

I'm really not a fan of fps games without a mouse and keyboard either, im very used to that set up. Fallout 3 is the only game of that ilk i have got on with and that beacuse you get an auto traget mode type thingy which helps a hell of a lot manual aiming is a bit of a bastard still.


dave


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 10, 2009)

I'm not buying a PC Tits 

Had a quick gander at Fallout 3's website. It sounds pretty darned great actually. Plus sounds sandboxy. I'm going to get that  I guess if I'm any good at it in 3rd person mode I can switch to fp mode and have a bash.


----------



## TitanSound (Aug 10, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'm not buying a PC Tits



Nick one then


----------



## kained&able (Aug 10, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'm not buying a PC Tits
> 
> Had a quick gander at Fallout 3's website. It sounds pretty darned great actually. Plus sounds sandboxy. I'm going to get that  I guess if I'm any good at it in 3rd person mode I can switch to fp mode and have a bash.



tis much much more sandboxy then any of the gta games, which is pretty danm snadboxy. Other then the main say 9 missions you can litterally do anything you want and anytime you want and every bit of the ridiculously huge map is open to you the second you have finished the first few missions.

No waiting for them to fix a bridge or any of that shite.

Its cool.


dave


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 10, 2009)

kained&able said:


> tis much much more sandboxy then any of the gta games, which is pretty danm snadboxy. Other then the main say 9 missions you can litterally do anything you want and anytime you want and every bit of the ridiculously huge map is open to you the second you have finished the first few missions.
> 
> No waiting for them to fix a bridge or any of that shite.
> 
> ...



Oh that's pretty excellnt 

Indefinite postal strike round these parts starts tomorrow, so I'll check out my local cex and game for pre-owned.


----------



## kained&able (Aug 10, 2009)

you can pick it up first hand for 20 quid these days without much hassle so make sure the deals a good un.


dave


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanks


----------



## Silva (Aug 10, 2009)

I know what you mean. There a few FPS I would like to try for PS2 (Black, Timesplitters and XIII), but I can't get my head working around the control scheme of such games on a control pad.


----------



## fogbat (Aug 10, 2009)

Silva said:


> I know what you mean. There a few FPS I would like to try for PS2 (Black, Timesplitters and XIII), but I can't get my head working around the control scheme of such games on a control pad.



If you're used to mouse and keyboard it can take a bit of practice, but won't take you too long to get the hang of.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 10, 2009)

Yeah, perhaps my brain just isn't wired to work like that. Perhaps it depends on your gaming background too. I'm 31, grew up with  the growth of computer games, so pong, C64, Amstrad, Spectrum, then the last proper console I had was the original playstation in 1997. FPS just wasn't prevalent then. The only games I've played on a PC have been strategy games like the Civs, Alpha Centauri etc. And of course, even though the original GTA was completely different to GTA IV, I reckon it's a pretty natural progression, in the third person. I guess if you were introduced to fps at a relatively early stage you'll find it easier, perhaps.

Or maybe I'm just shit 

Anyway, can I just say Mafia II looks excellent. 

I'm going to dl the Lost and the Damned to eek out GTA IV. I'll persevere with Bioshock. I've also looked at reviews of Oblivion, after Fable II I reckon I'll like it so I'll hunt around in town or a copy. Perhaps before I go for Fallout 3.


----------



## fogbat (Aug 10, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'm going to dl the Lost and the Damned to eek out GTA IV. I'll persevere with Bioshock. I've also looked at reviews of Oblivion, after Fable II I reckon I'll like it so I'll hunt around in town or a copy. Perhaps before I go for Fallout 3.



Have you started Fable II yet? I reckon it's excellent (the original was my favourite game on the xbox), though the main story is a bit on the short side.

Plus, _it has Stephen Fry!_ 

e2a: I should read the OP better


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 10, 2009)

fogbat said:


> Have you started Fable II yet? I reckon it's excellent (the original was my favourite game on the xbox), though the main story is a bit on the short side.
> 
> Plus, _it has Stephen Fry!_
> 
> e2a: I should read the OP better



Heh, yeah. I finished the main story just a couple of days or so ago. (I chose the dog. Hammer was annoyed.) I bought the castle afterwards, then got stuck for the first time in the whole game because I couldn't work out what to do to those annoying balls of whatever in the tombs. I found out online, so I'll go back and have another bash at it. I'll carry on with a few of the side quests, it's a fun game 

Fry was excellent for Reaver. What a smug bastard  I really liked the whole tattered spire part when rescuing Garth. I'd been putting it off for a while, going about amassing great wealth, good weapons, loads of potions etc, only to find I was stripped of everything once inside lol. I love those fucking Hobbes, when they run away with their arms flailing, then play dead  I never really explored Wraithmarsh because it scared the bejeebus out of me, so I could do that. I only got about 35 smarmycunt gargoyles, so there's still that to do too. It took me a while to get into it as it was quite slow going before you got some money together and could level up a bit, but it was great by the end.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 10, 2009)

tbh, i found fallout 3 easier to play first person than third, and i'm not the world's biggest fps fan.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 10, 2009)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> tbh, i found fallout 3 easier to play first person than third, and i'm not the world's biggest fps fan.



Well at least there's the choice of both. Be a bugger if I can't do either


----------



## fogbat (Aug 10, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Heh, yeah. I finished the main story just a couple of days or so ago. (I chose the dog. Hammer was annoyed.) I bought the castle afterwards, then got stuck for the first time in the whole game because I couldn't work out what to do to those annoying balls of whatever in the tombs. I found out online, so I'll go back and have another bash at it. I'll carry on with a few of the side quests, it's a fun game
> 
> Fry was excellent for Reaver. What a smug bastard  I really liked the whole tattered spire part when rescuing Garth. I'd been putting it off for a while, going about amassing great wealth, good weapons, loads of potions etc, only to find I was stripped of everything once inside lol. I love those fucking Hobbes, when they run away with their arms flailing, then play dead  I never really explored Wraithmarsh because it scared the bejeebus out of me, so I could do that. I only got about 35 smarmycunt gargoyles, so there's still that to do too. It took me a while to get into it as it was quite slow going before you got some money together and could level up a bit, but it was great by the end.



I chose the dog, too


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 10, 2009)

fogbat said:


> I chose the dog, too



Heh. I was already mega rich, so I didn't need the money. And quite frankly, when posed with the choice of either bringing dead members of my family back or bringing back all those who died at the hands of evil-doers in all the wars ever fought ever, I'd choose my dad every time. So it had to be the dog. No contest. Cute little bugger.

(I called him Niko because I was mourning having completed GTA IV )


----------



## fogbat (Aug 10, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Heh. I was already mega rich, so I didn't need the money. And quite frankly, when posed with the choice of either bringing dead members of my family back or bringing back all those who died at the hands of evil-doers in all the wars ever fought ever, I'd choose my dad every time. So it had to be the dog. No contest. Cute little bugger.
> 
> (I called him Niko because I was mourning having completed GTA IV )





Your love for the Serbian Sociopath does you few favours


----------



## The Groke (Aug 10, 2009)

Try Dead Space VP - you might like that.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 10, 2009)

fogbat said:


> Your love for the Serbian Sociopath does you few favours



We decided he was a Bosnian Croat. Is there final word on this anywhere? Not that it matters. Roman gets married in a church, so that rules out Bosnian. 

I love him very much. I'd marry him. Fuck Kate.


----------



## Silva (Aug 11, 2009)

fogbat said:


> If you're used to mouse and keyboard it can take a bit of practice, but won't take you too long to get the hang of.



Yeah, by then end of Ghost In The Shell (third person, but requires accurate aiming) I could already move the crosshairs instinctively, but still lacking the quickness and accuracy of mouse+keyb. I may try one of those, eventually. It's not like I'll lose money.


----------



## loud 1 (Aug 11, 2009)

The Groke said:


> Try Dead Space VP - you might like that.



hell yeh!!!!!!


----------



## Final (Aug 11, 2009)

Anyone tried using keyboard /mouse on PS3 / 360?



> The tiny adapter plugs into your Xbox 360's USB port and lets you connect either a USB or PS/2 keyboard and mouse directly to your system.



http://gizmodo.com/217332/xcm-brings-pc+style-gaming-to-your-360


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 13, 2009)

I hunted around town a couple of days ago and picked up Fallout 3, Mass Effect and Oblivion. All Pre-owned, plus 2 of them were at HMV so I got my employee discount on top. 

Only had a bash at Oblivion so far and (bashes head against wall) am playing it pretty much exclusively in first person mode  I'm also finding it incredibly tedious when wandering about in the countryside because the going is so fucking slow. There either isn't a sprint button or I can't find it yet. It also seems incredibly complex, when compared to the simplicity of Fable II at least. I keep getting weighed down as I steal dead goblin armour to sell at the market place. And I prefer being told where quests are rather than hoping I might one day stumble across one as I walk, sloooooooowly, from one place to the next. And if I have to boast/coerce/admire/joke to one more flaming person ...  I'm sure I'll get the hang of it. Fable II took a little while to get going for me. 

I might play a bit of Fable later, I dl the Knothole Island expansion.

In other news, I'm not greatly enamoured with The Lost and the Damned. It seems like an endless parade of 'follow Billy on your bike to kill a group of AOD bikers then listen to Billy say it's great to follow a leader'. There's very little story there to make me feel anything other than apathy towards Johnny. It was a nice touch going on that mission with Niko and Playboy though. I don't remember Johnny from doing that mission as Niko. Seeing Niko early on in the game push past someone on the street was pretty cool, and the same news is on the radio about Roman's cab firm burning down and stuff. Hopefully it'll perk up a bit as I get into it more, and I'm looking forward to the ballad of gay tony when that comes out.


----------



## Pingu (Aug 13, 2009)

wasd ftw for fps games


----------



## fogbat (Aug 13, 2009)

I found Oblivion awful, really dull.

Couldn't get into it at all 

Plus Patrick Stewart's character in it (the Emperor at the beginning) looks like David Icke.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 13, 2009)

fogbat said:


> I found Oblivion awful, really dull.
> 
> Couldn't get into it at all
> 
> Plus Patrick Stewart's character in it (the Emperor at the beginning) looks like David Icke.



Oh god, he did, didn't he! 

Well, I like my RPGs, and Oblivion seemed to be rated highly by lots of RPG folk. And it's the same ppl as Fallout 3 wot made it. But I want to gnaw my trigger finger off it's that uninspiring so far. I will persevere though. 

You know what I'm like? I'm one of those people who likes what they like and wishes people would just keep making new versions of the same game but with different storylines. So I want a game that is exactly the same gameplay as GTA IV but with a new character and story to fall in love with. I want New adventures and quests and storyline for Fable II. The downloadable content schtick just doesn't seem to cut it.


----------



## fogbat (Aug 13, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Oh god, he did, didn't he!
> 
> Well, I like my RPGs, and Oblivion seemed to be rated highly by lots of RPG folk. And it's the same ppl as Fallout 3 wot made it. But I want to gnaw my trigger finger off it's that uninspiring so far. I will persevere though.
> 
> You know what I'm like? I'm one of those people who likes what they like and wishes people would just keep making new versions of the same game but with different storylines. *So I want a game that is exactly the same gameplay as GTA IV but with a new character and story to fall in love with. I want New adventures and quests and storyline for Fable II. *The downloadable content schtick just doesn't seem to cut it.



Can't argue with that


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 13, 2009)

And sex. I want sex in games. None of this fade to black vibrating controller bollocks. If it's rated 18 then let's see some action, dammit. There's been some cock in TLATD, but it's just not good enough  It can be an optional extra in the options menu. 

Invert Y Axis: Yes/No
Auto-aim: Yes/No
Auto-save: Yes/No
Cum-shot: Yes/No

God, there's more sex in the Sims.


----------



## The Groke (Aug 14, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> And sex. I want sex in games. None of this fade to black vibrating controller bollocks..






			
				Vintage Paw said:
			
		

> Third person



Shit!

Has no-one recommended Mass Effect to you yet?


Would seem to be the answer to all your problems:

1) RPG epic gameplay - great script and story
2) Third person gameplay
3) Arcady shooting but with RPG system backing it up
4) Alien sex - you can work the storyline to get it on with your crewmates...


Look, it too takes a little time to grasp the complexities of some of the combat, managing your items is unnecessarily tedious and getting the hang of instructing your teammates in battle rather than letting them auto-resolve is a must.

Still I reckon it would suit you to a tee.

I love the dialogue system especially: Normally in an RPG you select the answer "No varlet - I reject your offer" and then your character says "No varlet I reject your offer" which leads to getting weary of the dialgoue and skipping through...


Mass Effect would offer you various dialogue options, but the actual way your character plays them out is in the spirit, rather than the letter, thus meaning you watch it all, thus meaning immersion is maintained.


Example: During a tense stand-off, one option might be "I have had enough of your crap!"

Selecting that actually leads your character to smash the NPC in the face with your rifle, thus ending the conversation.

It's great.


----------



## The Groke (Aug 14, 2009)

To add: sex in games is still one of these ridiculous issues that causes a furore in the media whenever it rears it's cock.


Mass dismemberment? Fine. Bit of loving? Nuh-uh.

Mass Effect itself suffered from this - lots of idiots were up in arms, whilst admitting they hadn't played the game - because it contained (pretty tasteful - sorry VP) sex which was integral to one of the storylines.


Makes me really fucking annoyed.

They did eventually issue a full apology too - but of course, that wasn't as well publicized...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 28, 2009)

Sorry, just seen this. I was too busy playing Mass Effect to notice it 

Yes, it was recommended. I fucking love it. Brilliant game. I didn't find the combat hard to get to grips with at all, but then I played on Easy  Gonna play on normal with a ladyShep next, so I get to sex Kaiden (manShep sexed Liara, btw). I'm keeping my original manShep for ME2. 

The sex was weak. Very weak. A vague shot of alien sideboob. I might check out youtube to see the others. 

Look, I'm a perv, I want sex, dammit.

It is really fucked up, like you say, the way the goriest of gore-fests is fine but the slightest bit of imagined side boob gets bitch-slapped. Meh.


----------

