# Top Gear BBC 2 20:00



## Gingerman (Jun 26, 2011)

New series starts tonight,let's hope it's an improvement on the last one which was very meh.


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## MBV (Jun 26, 2011)

I thought it was a great episode. The 1M looks great.


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## Pingu (Jun 26, 2011)

was ok... liked the big monter thing at the beginning, if i was dead rich i would have one of those just to piss hippys off


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## TitanSound (Jun 27, 2011)

Not a bad episode at all. I enjoyed it!


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## chandlerp (Jun 27, 2011)

Hammond needs to be told to fuck off now though


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## weltweit (Jun 27, 2011)

TitanSound said:


> Not a bad episode at all. I enjoyed it!


 
Exactly the same as usual..

They have not tweaked the formula at all .. 

And that said I thought it was quite average..


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## Jackobi (Jun 27, 2011)

Jeremy Clarkson's cringe factor is reaching unbearable levels. A dirty old man trying to get the olympic gold medal winning bobsleigh woman to shake her tits. Why she didn't tell him to fuck off, I don't know, probably felt pity for him.


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## weltweit (Jun 27, 2011)

Jackobi said:


> Jeremy Clarkson's cringe factor is reaching unbearable levels. A dirty old man trying to get the olympic gold medal winning bobsleigh woman to shake her tits. Why she didn't tell him to fuck off, I don't know, probably felt pity for him.


 
What is it now ... : 

Basically 

A feature on something odd from the car world part 1 

Clarkson or another drives an unabtainable car and skids it about a bit 

News 

The Stig drives the car round the track (because he is the only one of them that can actually drive!) 

A star in a reasonably priced car

A feature on something odd from the car world part 2 



And that is about it, it has been thus as far as I can remember and I think that lacks imagination.


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## Gingerman (Jun 27, 2011)

What was sexier? The speedser at the end or the bobsleigh woman in her body hugging costume ?


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## mrs quoad (Jun 27, 2011)

Where does the funding come from to blow up cars? Out of interest?


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## Gavin Bl (Jun 27, 2011)

From the licence payer presumably - but I'd imagine that Top Gear is one of the Beebs big earners


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## Steel Icarus (Jun 27, 2011)




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## DexterTCN (Jun 27, 2011)

I tell you fucking what...the BBC better never have paid for all that white cliffs shit at the end.


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## newme (Jun 27, 2011)

Its the most watched programme on iplayer, most watched on BBC2 and most watched worldwide of BBC programmes so therefore brings in the most revenue.


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## Steel Icarus (Jun 27, 2011)

newme said:


> Its the most watched programme on iplayer, most watched on BBC2 and most watched worldwide of BBC programmes so therefore brings in the most revenue.



Is that how it works?


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## newme (Jun 27, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Is that how it works?



It is on the broadcasts outside the UK which have advertising.


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## agricola (Jun 27, 2011)

the *race to the north* is still the best thing that show has done, and amongst the best things the bbc has done for ages


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## Gingerman (Jun 27, 2011)

The Bolivian ep was good as well,Alice Cooper was good value as the Star in a Car last night.


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## starfish (Jun 27, 2011)

Did anyone catch the name of the website they mentioned that you can search for how many cars there are of a certain type?


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## Gingerman (Jun 27, 2011)

starfish said:


> Did anyone catch the name of the website they mentioned that you can search for how many cars there are of a certain type?


 
http://howmanyleft.co.uk/


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## starfish (Jun 27, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> http://howmanyleft.co.uk/


 
Ta


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## Cid (Jun 27, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Is that how it works?


 
The BBC has an international wing called BBC worldwide that just acts like a standard company, does worldwide distribution of programmes etc... That's why you get shorts at the end of some (e.g discussing how the filming was done), means it fits with advertising overseas. This is why the budgets for stuff like Top Gear (and nature stuff with Attenborough etc) are entirely justified, it has an enormous worldwide audience, associated merchandising, magazines, shows etc and is therefore a huge earner (largest in the BBC afaik). Also people will bend over backwards to reach a big audience like that, i imagine the 'race against a jet', 'run away from a tank' stuff doesn't cost them that much - very good for recruitment.


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## Gavin Bl (Jun 28, 2011)

There must be a hell of a revenue from the endless DVDs, books and so on.


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## weltweit (Jun 28, 2011)

Gavin Bl said:


> There must be a hell of a revenue from the endless DVDs, books and so on.


 
Hmm, My 12 year old has bought two of Clarkson's books.


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## sim667 (Jun 28, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> The Bolivian ep was good as well,Alice Cooper was good value as the Star in a Car last night.


 
The vietnam episode was my fave so far......


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## davesgcr (Jun 28, 2011)

Watch out for some interesting rail sequences coming up in this series .....(hint)


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## weltweit (Jun 28, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> http://howmanyleft.co.uk/


 
Bummer, there are 1035 of my car still in circulation, I guess I won't get a rarity bonus if I sell it


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## Chz (Jun 29, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> I tell you fucking what...the BBC better never have paid for all that white cliffs shit at the end.


 
I doubt they paid to blow up the car (I'm willing to bet the carmaker felt it was promotional money worth spending), but sadly they almost certainly paid for that.

Or not, depending on how you look at it. Top Gear is not made by the BBC. Top Gear is made by an independent company (though I believe the BBC owns 50% of it). The BBC pays a certain amount for a "series" of Top Gear and the maniacs who make it spend their budget however the hell they feel like it. So yes, the license payer is paying for it, but not directly.


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## Cid (Jun 29, 2011)

Not really, more like Top Gear subsidising the licence fee.


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## Bakunin (Jun 30, 2011)

At least there's one thing in favour of TG and that's that it's done wonders for the popularity of the infamous Nurburgring Nordschleife, without doubt the single greatest racetrack on Earth. Seeing footage of the mighty 'Ring makes even Clarkson's wanton cockery bearable.


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## Gingerman (Jul 4, 2011)

Good ep last night,I bet they got plenty of practice before they were let loose on the Monaco circuit


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## starfish (Jul 4, 2011)

^^ Yup, that looked a lot of fun too. Although Flavio didnt seem to enjoy it too much with James.


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## beekeeper (Jul 4, 2011)

Am I the only one thinking that those staged scenes in the studio are getting worse?


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## weltweit (Jul 4, 2011)

Having watched rather a lot of TopGear on Dave recently wheras before only watching it weekly, I have come to the view that the style of program is basically stagnant, I know exactly what to expect and I am not dissapointed, but I am also not wowed anymore. 

When you have seen one unobtainable supercar being tail slid around the track with lots of tyre smoke, you have effectively seen them all. And that nullifies a great chunk of the program time. Then there is the star in the car, which has been amusing when it was the singer from ACDC, Seasick Steve or Micheal McIntyre, it is not always amusing, some of them are just not that interesting. 

I am less enamoured with the show than I once was. 
To put it mildly.


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## not-bono-ever (Jul 5, 2011)

the studio stuff doesnt do it for me any longer, the stars/ reasonable cars has run its course. Not interested in supercards caning it around the track at all - says nothing to me about my life

The Foreign travel stuff does still work for me

Its still an entertainment above all


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## weltweit (Jul 5, 2011)

There is Jeremy tail sliding supercars on the track

and 

There is the Stig driving same cars at maxium without tail sliding because that is not the fastest way to drive a car.. 


I prefer (by a long way) to watch the Stig driving cars to their maximum.


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## Gingerman (Jul 11, 2011)

Good ep tonight,Vettol was good value in the Star in a car,the MaClaren...me want.


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## Chz (Jul 11, 2011)

I felt bad for that poor 850Ci. They're not awful, but up against that pimp's car that's 10 years newer it's just going to come off terribly. Maybe if they'd found a CSi instead... I'm also not sure what their point was - whether they break in two weeks' time isn't important, it's the fact that either of those cars will have repair bills in excess of their purchase price when they do break.


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## gosub (Jul 11, 2011)

Beemers and Mercs usually alright up to 150,000miles so think they should be alright for a while. Fuel economy though, is why I think they were on the market


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## weltweit (Jul 11, 2011)

It is all very well that you can buy a second hand BMW or Merc for £6.5k and that sounds great. 

But can you afford to insure it? 

Most punters, I think not.


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## weltweit (Jul 12, 2011)

And, I bet the BMW and the Merc did not have full service histories, meaning that they probably needed new cambelts which would have been a pretty penny. 

Clarkson and Hammond did not mention anything about Insurance or service history, typical partial .. and unsatisfactory - as usual.


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## Kanda (Jul 12, 2011)

weltweit said:


> And, I bet the BMW and the Merc did not have full service histories, meaning that they probably needed new cambelts which would have been a pretty penny.
> 
> Clarkson and Hammond did not mention anything about Insurance or service history, typical partial .. and unsatisfactory - as usual.


 
Plenty of CL500's on Pistonheads for that price with FSH.


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## Chz (Jul 13, 2011)

weltweit said:


> And, I bet the BMW and the Merc did not have full service histories, meaning that they probably needed new cambelts which would have been a pretty penny.
> 
> Clarkson and Hammond did not mention anything about Insurance or service history, typical partial .. and unsatisfactory - as usual.


The BMW M70 (The 5L V-12) is chain-driven and about as bulletproof as your average tank, being essentially two M30s welded together - and the M30 engine dates from the late 60s (it last saw service in the '93 535i). Though god help you when something does go wrong with it, as there's two of everything including the engine management computer(s)!


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## weltweit (Jul 14, 2011)

Chz said:


> The BMW M70 (The 5L V-12) is chain-driven and about as bulletproof as your average tank, being essentially two M30s welded together - and the M30 engine dates from the late 60s (it last saw service in the '93 535i). Though god help you when something does go wrong with it, as there's two of everything including the engine management computer(s)!


 
cam chain you say ... that does make a difference. 

I have seen some very nice BMWs and Mercs in a local second hand car showroom, I could afford to buy each of them but I doubt I would like the insurance. 

I have never paid more than £250 annual insurance for anything


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## davesgcr (Jul 17, 2011)

Ah well - my moment of glory tonight as one of the railway inspectors .....(the one who said it was a deathtrap)


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## OneStrike (Jul 17, 2011)

davesgcr said:


> Ah well - my moment of glory tonight as one of the railway inspectors .....(the one who said it was a deathtrap)


 
You stole the show mate!


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## MBV (Jul 17, 2011)

Thought it was a bit shit tonight.


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## Gingerman (Jul 18, 2011)

Mr.Bean was fast


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## Cid (Jul 18, 2011)

davesgcr said:


> Ah well - my moment of glory tonight as one of the railway inspectors .....(the one who said it was a deathtrap)


 
How much of it was faked etc? or can you not say?


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## weltweit (Jul 18, 2011)

I just want to remind viewers interested in the BMW and Merc for about £6k that as expected one of them, the Merc has already broken down, a matter of an ignition coil pack, which we were told for the Nissan was a paltry £150 odd yet for the Mercedes including fitting totalled *£1,200 *

So just how cheap are these £6k luxury cars now eh  ?


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 18, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I just want to remind viewers interested in the BMW and Merc for about £6k that as expected one of them, the Merc has already broken down, a matter of an ignition coil pack, which we were told for the Nissan was a paltry £150 odd yet for the Mercedes including fitting totalled *£1,200 *
> 
> So just how cheap are these £6k luxury cars now eh  ?


 
when you factor in fuel economy as well then you're bankrupted... straight away... why do you think there's 4 grand bentleys for sale..


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## davesgcr (Jul 20, 2011)

Cid said:


> How much of it was faked etc? or can you not say?



It was all genuine - the filming was "real time" and when the caravan train got up to about 25 mph (bearing in mind it was on tiny trolley wheels with no brakes (bar on the Audi) , the ride was really terrifying - the noise and vibration were terrible and the latter was so bad that the stuff falling off the buffet counters etc was genuine. 


d


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## editor (Jul 20, 2011)

Clarkson claimed to be doing 70mph+ in his 'sports train.' I thought that you weren't allowed to run trains at such high speeds on preserved lines?


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## neonwilderness (Jul 20, 2011)

editor said:


> Clarkson claimed to be doing 70mph+ in his 'sports train.' I thought that you weren't allowed to run trains at such high speeds on preserved lines?


 
It's usually 25mph, but I think the GCR have special permission to run faster than that (60mph IIRC) in certain circumstances.  I don't know if Clarkson was going anywhere near that speed though.


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## weltweit (Jul 20, 2011)

neonwilderness said:


> It's usually 25mph, but I think the GCR have special permission to run faster than that (60mph IIRC) in certain circumstances.  I don't know if Clarkson was going anywhere near that speed though.


 
I think it depends if his speedo was connected to his front or rear wheels. 
I can well believe his rear wheels were doing 70


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## Cid (Jul 20, 2011)

davesgcr said:


> It was all genuine - the filming was "real time" and when the caravan train got up to about 25 mph (bearing in mind it was on tiny trolley wheels with no brakes (bar on the Audi) , the ride was really terrifying - the noise and vibration were terrible and the latter was so bad that the stuff falling off the buffet counters etc was genuine.
> 
> 
> d



Good to hear that they don't just fake everything then... Hoping they did with the fire though!


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## weltweit (Jul 20, 2011)

Cid said:


> Good to hear that they don't just fake everything then... Hoping they did with the fire though!


 
Their team are certainly very good at getting permissions to do things... 

Drive ridiculous caravan vehicles including a top heavy one on the public road, how would they have got insurance for that, typical insurance question: "is the vehicle at all modified?" ditto for the amphibious vehicle tasks, and then looonspuddery on a railway including being hit by a train?  Driving extended cars in London, some of which looked positively dangerous... etc etc 

Where do they get permission to do these things?


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## davesgcr (Jul 20, 2011)

As a so called "railway expert" - 70 mph would be perfectly safe on the GCR , its good quality , well ballasted , heavy duty track which is very well maintained (had plenty of time to examine it during the outtakes etc)  - I am pretty sure he got up to that speed , whch was filmed on the previous evening. (remember , it was passed for 90mph in BR days , and it hasnt changed since then) 

Will post some pics up later on ......


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## neonwilderness (Jul 20, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I think it depends if his speedo was connected to his front or rear wheels.
> I can well believe his rear wheels were doing 70


Good point, they probably got to a similar speed at their first attempt with the Jaguar (that didn't get very far) too!



davesgcr said:


> I am pretty sure he got up to that speed , whch was filmed on the previous evening.


 
I don't think I'd want to have been one of the passengers


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## davesgcr (Jul 20, 2011)




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## editor (Jul 20, 2011)

Great pics!


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## davesgcr (Jul 20, 2011)

Dont you just love that rail mounted Landrover filming unit .......(I really covet that !)


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## Cid (Jul 20, 2011)

'Railrover', love it.


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## Gingerman (Jul 20, 2011)

davesgcr said:


> Dont you just love that rail mounted Landrover filming unit .......(I really covet that !)


Did you get to spend some time with the terrible trio? What were they like? Was clarkeson and Hammond as annoying as they are on Telly?


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## davesgcr (Jul 20, 2011)

Not at all annoying - we chatted during the breaks and lunch - very affable and good campany. Mr Hammond is a bit off the wall -as he plays on TV. We were able to extract humour , - but some of the banter didnt make the directors cut. A very enjoyble experience all round. (especially when we told them that it would take 78 caravans coupled together to equal one standard train)


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 20, 2011)

Ace pics!


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## Roadkill (Jul 20, 2011)

davesgcr said:


> It was all genuine - the filming was "real time" and when the caravan train got up to about 25 mph (bearing in mind it was on tiny trolley wheels with no brakes (bar on the Audi) , the ride was really terrifying - the noise and vibration were terrible and the latter was so bad that the stuff falling off the buffet counters etc was genuine.
> 
> 
> d


 
I thought I recognised you in one of the shots!  Great pics.  

Sunday's episode was good - one of the best for a while.  In fact, this whole series has been one of the better ones IMO.  A couple of seasons back TG looked tired and ready to be killed off, but it's got better again of late for some reason.


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## D'wards (Mar 18, 2014)

Now the Burma special was great TV, really enjoyable, then Clarkson has to do this...


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## joustmaster (Mar 20, 2014)

D'wards said:


> Now the Burma special was great TV, really enjoyable, then Clarkson has to do this...



I was genuinely shocked by it.
They are trying to claim that they meant nothing racist by it.


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## T & P (May 1, 2014)

Claims this morning that Clarkson used the n-word in some unaired footage of Top Gear that has been leaked. He mumbles the word in question but it does sound like nigger to me. He's gone on Twitter to deny it.

Could this be the end of the cunt's BBC career? One can only hope...


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## Elvis Parsley (May 1, 2014)

T & P said:


> Could this be the end of the cunt's BBC career? One can only hope...


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## DotCommunist (May 1, 2014)

that wasn't the modern version of the rymhe


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## SpookyFrank (May 1, 2014)

I hope they continue making Top Gear but replace Clarkson. Preferably with someone that he'd really hate, like a woman or something.


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## Sprocket. (May 1, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> I hope they continue making Top Gear but replace Clarkson. Preferably with someone that he'd really hate, like a woman or something.



A green, bearded, vegatarian cyclist.


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## goldenecitrone (May 1, 2014)

T & P said:


> Claims this morning that Clarkson used the n-word in some unaired footage of Top Gear that has been leaked. He mumbles the word in question but it does sound like nigger to me. He's gone on Twitter to deny it.
> 
> Could this be the end of the cunt's BBC career? One can only hope...




It will be interesting to see how the BBC reacts to this. To even be filmed saying that, the arrogance of that twat. Astounding.


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## Chz (May 1, 2014)

To be filmed saying *mnumblemumble*? Yes, astounding. Thankfully this is just the court of Public Opinion so he may still go to hell for it. That would last 3.9 seconds in an actual court.


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## DotCommunist (May 1, 2014)

he's quite clearly mumbling over the wrong version. Could easily claim in was the tigger version though. He's not been caught in his Grand Wizard uniform just yet


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## hash tag (May 1, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


> I hope they continue making Top Gear but replace Clarkson. Preferably with someone that he'd really hate, like a woman or something.



Scrap to hear. It's old, out dated and formulaic. Replace it with a proper motoring programme as opposed to a comedy show that's about it's presenters, which is all that top gear is.
The car should be the star.


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## SpookyFrank (May 1, 2014)

Cars are shit though.


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## Belushi (May 1, 2014)

Sprocket. said:


> A green, bearded, vegatarian cyclist.



gentlegreen


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## skyscraper101 (May 1, 2014)

He's issued an apology/explanation on video.

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-05-01/clarkson-begs-your-forgiveness-over-n-word-claims/

In it, he says on the 'best known version' there's a racist term. But I've never known the children's rhyme 'Eeny, meeny, miny, moe' to have any racist term in its best known form (which I've just checked for clarity as it's been a while)  It was always 'catch a fishy' or 'catch a tiger' or whatever...

The only instance I've ever heard the N Word was that scene in pulp fiction - but he's saying that's the 'best known' version? It blatantly is not. Right?


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## fishfinger (May 1, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> But I've never known the children's rhyme 'Eeny, meeny, miny, moe' to have any racist term in its best known form


You are probably too young to have heard the "nigger" version. It was the only version used when I was a small child. Thankfully, it no longer seems to be used.


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## Badgers (May 1, 2014)

He is a card eh?


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## dylanredefined (May 2, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> He's issued an apology/explanation on video.
> 
> http://www.itv.com/news/update/2014-05-01/clarkson-begs-your-forgiveness-over-n-word-claims/
> 
> ...


   How old are you? It's allways been the n word I've known long before I knew what the n word mean't  or that it was offensive. Considering it wasn't broadcast it wasn't used as an insult just repeating a nursery ryhme. Hardly a big deal.


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## skyscraper101 (May 2, 2014)

dylanredefined said:


> How old are you? It's allways been the n word I've known long before I knew what the n word mean't  or that it was offensive. Considering it wasn't broadcast it wasn't used as an insult just repeating a nursery ryhme. Hardly a big deal.



I'm 32, so grew up in the 80s? I never knew an n word version.


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## Espresso (May 2, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> The only instance I've ever heard the N Word was that scene in pulp fiction - but he's saying that's the 'best known' version? It blatantly is not. Right?



As others have said, it's an age thing. I'm a bit younger than Clarkson and it absolutely is the version I grew up hearing. In fact, the first time I heard someone use tiger instead, it struck me as unusual.


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## skyscraper101 (May 2, 2014)

yeah must be an age thing. How sad, I grew up with that song it was always the 'catch a fishy' version. I feel a bit down now.


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## dylanredefined (May 2, 2014)

Badgers said:


> He is a card eh?



  Considering all the other stuff he has done. This just makes him the bbc fool  drag him out so everyone can shout and get upset at him. How exactly did the mirror get hold of the out-takes anyway


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## Gromit (May 2, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> It was always 'catch a fishy' or 'catch a tiger' or whatever...



Both creatures renowned for having toes!?


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## Balbi (May 2, 2014)

Gromit said:


> Both creatures renowned for having toes!?



TIGERS HAVE TOES


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## skyscraper101 (May 2, 2014)

facts like that don't matter when you're 4


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## Buddy Bradley (May 2, 2014)

Gromit said:


> Both creatures renowned for having toes!?


Not renowned for "hollering" all that much, either.


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## Gromit (May 2, 2014)

Balbi said:


> TIGERS HAVE TOES



They have paws and paws generally have pads not toes.

I Google'd 'tiger toes' and was shock to learn what urban dictionary has to say in the matter!!


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## Gromit (May 2, 2014)

p.s. as a 40+ yr old I knew the N word version and I thought the accepted change was 'nipper' which doesn't work great either. 

Or piggie. Which works much better. As piggies squeal and ties in with this little piggie went to market.


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## killer b (May 2, 2014)

dylanredefined said:


> How old are you? It's allways been the n word I've known long before I knew what the n word mean't  or that it was offensive. Considering it wasn't broadcast it wasn't used as an insult just repeating a nursery ryhme. Hardly a big deal.


it is a big deal. The programme he helms has a track record for nudge nudge, skirting the line racist banter. He knows exactly where the line is, so acting all wide-eyed innocent when caught over it doesn't wash. Fuck him.


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## Kaka Tim (May 2, 2014)

racist cunt is racist.


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## Kaka Tim (May 2, 2014)

So who should replace him - 

Sandy Toksvig? Harriet Harman? Jarvis Cocker? Brian Sewell? Germaine Greer?


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## Badgers (May 2, 2014)

What has Gove said about this whole awful situation?


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## fredfelt (May 2, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> racist cunt is racist.



I find it interesting that you are happy to use the word cunt as an insult, while someone who mumbles a word with equal power, seemingly without any malice is guilty as charged.


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## killer b (May 2, 2014)

equal power? o rly? 

got to love threads like this.


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## Badgers (May 2, 2014)

Clarkson needs a good PR man to fix this awful mess. Know anyone who could spin this for him? Like a bunch of associates? Anyone?


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## Gromit (May 2, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Clarkson needs a good PR man to fix this awful mess. Know anyone who could spin this for him? Like a bunch of associates? Anyone?



Max Clifford?


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## Sigmund Fraud (May 2, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> So who should replace him -
> 
> Brian Sewell?



That would be very . Grayson Perry, Sewell and Bonnie Greer, that would be some line up.

The Clarkson replacement is under everybody's nose - Steve Coogan.


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 2, 2014)

He won't be replaced, unless the BBC want to torpedo one of their most profitable shows.


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## Pickman's model (May 2, 2014)

killer b said:


> o rly?


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## Pickman's model (May 2, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> So who should replace him -
> 
> Sandy Toksvig? Harriet Harman? Jarvis Cocker? Brian Sewell? Germaine Greer?


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## fredfelt (May 2, 2014)

Sigmund Fraud said:


> That would be very . Grayson Perry, Sewell and Bonnie Greer, that would be some line up.
> 
> The Clarkson replacement is under everybody's nose - Steve Coogan.



Steve Coogan would be ace but he'd very quickly go all Alan Partridge!


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## killer b (May 2, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> He won't be replaced, unless the BBC want to torpedo one of their most profitable shows.


 profits before decency!

what level of racism would be the tipping point do you think bees?


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 2, 2014)

killer b said:


> profits before decency!
> 
> what level of racism would be the tipping point do you think bees?


Well, I imagine if he started presenting in full Klan regalia the people in charge might feel compelled to do something. But this? They won't give a shit.


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## Sigmund Fraud (May 2, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> He won't be replaced, unless the BBC want to torpedo one of their most profitable shows.



Not many people can survive using the N word - just ask Ron Atkinson. The fact that this is a flagship show and an international sales hit makes this worse, not better. The show is shit and needs a reboot/rest anyway. He will go.


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## killer b (May 2, 2014)

Dunno whether he'll go, but they certainly _will _give a shit. The end of those edgy racist bits on top gear, we can at least hope? Certainly there'll be more scrutiny now...


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## Gromit (May 2, 2014)

Sigmund Fraud said:


> Not many people can survive using the N word - just ask Ron Atkinson. The fact that this is a flagship show and an international sales hit makes this worse, not better. The show is shit and needs a reboot/rest anyway. He will go.



The shitness of the programme is what makes it sell well to foreigners. To sell more they want to make it even shitter.

Most of our hit exports have been pretty damn shite. Take Benny Hill for instance.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 2, 2014)

fredfelt said:


> I find it interesting that you are happy to use the word cunt as an insult, while someone who mumbles a word with equal power, seemingly without any malice is guilty as charged.



If Clarkson has said 'cunt' in an untransmitted recording - it would pass completely unnoticed - beyond featuring on an X rated version of 'it'll be alright on the night'.

Why do you think this might be the case?

Take your time.....


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 2, 2014)

What strikes me is that both the 'slope' and 'nigger' comments would have been reviewed by the editor and they would have a discussion about which they could get away with. This sort of 'edgy' pc busting 'banter' is what the show is about. 
"can we get away with 'slope' justin?" " oh - i think so"
"sorry jerremy - dont think we can use 'nigger' old chap - we'll go with 'tiger'". 

Its not a slip of the tounge - its calculated offence. And they have been caught out.


----------



## discokermit (May 2, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


>


----------



## D'wards (May 2, 2014)

I don't think Clarkson is a hardcore racist, as been previously mentioned, he just likes to strong it and see how far he can push the boundries. But no he's caught out he's whining like a child in a butcher's shop.


----------



## discokermit (May 2, 2014)

Sigmund Fraud said:


> The Clarkson replacement is under everybody's nose - Steve Coogan.


coogan's brother might be better.


----------



## killer b (May 2, 2014)

he does more to make racism acceptable than any hardcore racist, with his popular primetime tv show.

most hardcore racists are powerless angry people, their racism is an attemtp to make sense of a world where they've been fucked over. He does it for fun and profit. He's worse imo.


----------



## Gromit (May 2, 2014)

D'wards said:


> I don't think Clarkson is a hardcore racist, as been previously mentioned, he just likes to strong it and see how far he can push the boundries. But no he's caught out he's whining like a child in a butcher's shop.



He is a professional troll.

Sometimes they mis-judge how far they can troll and get away with it.

Sometimes not getting away with it is the point.


----------



## Sigmund Fraud (May 2, 2014)

D'wards said:


> I don't think Clarkson is a hardcore racist, as been previously mentioned, he just likes to strong it and see how far he can push the boundries. But no he's caught out he's whining like a child in a butcher's shop.



Doesn't matter if he is hardcore or not - most of the people who rushed to Ron Atkinson's defence after his Dessailly comments were black players he'd worked with. The idea that big Ron was a hardcore racist is ludicrous given his background in working with black players, particularly in the late 70's at West Brom. But it didn't matter, you don't recover from the N word, next thing he was on the plane to Africa with a film crew making some 'look I'm not a racist' Channel 5 prog. Then the phone didn't ring anymore and TVs loss is some tanning parlour's gain.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 2, 2014)

D'wards said:


> I don't think Clarkson is a hardcore racist, as been previously mentioned, he just likes to strong it and see how far he can push the boundries. But no he's caught out he's whining like a child in a butcher's shop.



why would a child be whining in a butcher  shop?


----------



## Badgers (May 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:
			
		

> why would a child be whining in a butcher  shop?



The stench of dead flesh? The bloodied apron? Hearing his mother's sobs as she spends the heating money on cheap off cuts?


----------



## Gromit (May 2, 2014)

Sigmund Fraud said:


> Doesn't matter if he is hardcore or not - most of the people who rushed to Ron Atkinson's defence after his Dessailly comments were black players he'd worked with. The idea that big Ron was a hardcore racist is ludicrous given his background in working with black players, particularly in the late 70's at West Brom. But it didn't matter, you don't recover from the N word, next thing he was on the plane to Africa with a film crew making some 'look I'm not a racist' Channel 5 prog. Then the phone didn't ring anymore and TVs loss is some tanning parlour's gain.



And yet it hasn't dun Kanye West or NWA any harm. /troll


----------



## fredfelt (May 2, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> If Clarkson has said 'cunt' in an untransmitted recording - it would pass completely unnoticed - beyond featuring on an X rated version of 'it'll be alright on the night'.
> 
> Why do you think this might be the case?
> 
> Take your time.....



As with anything it's about context.  I don't deny Clarkson is a bell end.  However simply using a offensive, loaded or powerful word does not mean you should make assumptions about the person using the word.

I've not seen the video, I'm really not interested enough to watch.  However the word nigger came up in a counting out rhyme.  It was seemingly said without hate or malice.  It's use was definatley inadvisable and also inappropriate but I don't see any context where it was meant to be offensive.

Language is important and the choice of words matters - but context matters more.  Last week I picked someone up at work for his language - not publicly but in passing.  In a meeting he realised that he missed something and said something like 'I'm being a bit spastic'.  No hate or malice was meant but in the context it was inappropriate to use the word.  Anyway I digress

So back to 'cunt'.  If he called someone a cunt in a hateful way that would be seen to be widely unacceptable.  However, as you said, if he used the word cunt in passing I agree with you, it would pass completely unnoticed.

So in short inappropriate use of a word does not automatically make someone a racist, sexist, or anything else.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 2, 2014)

I'd say the way he half murmurs it shows he knew well what he was saying- no inadvertent 'oh shit thats not the rhyme we use these days.' More a nudge wink like his slope comment.

otherwise why sort-of-say-it?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd say the way he half murmurs it shows he knew well what he was saying- no inadvertent 'oh shit thats not the rhyme we use these days.' More a nudge wink like his slope comment.
> 
> otherwise why sort-of-say-it?


Precisely, he knew exactly what he was doing and then as Kaka Tim said the editors obviously realised that this one was something they couldn't get away with and so cut it. It shows that everyone associated with the show is vermin not just Clarkson. 

That sais I think bees is right, they'll get away with it, the BBC won't have the spine necessary to rock the boat.


----------



## D'wards (May 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> why would a child be whining in a butcher  shop?


 Anyone get the reference, even though I have the quote pretty much entirely wrong?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 2, 2014)

D'wards said:


> Anyone get the reference, even though I have the quote pretty much entirely wrong?




dog whining in a butchers shop?


----------



## D'wards (May 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> dog whining in a butchers shop?


 I'll give you a clue - he's a terrible cunt (ahh, back to Clarkson again)


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 2, 2014)

D'wards said:


> Anyone get the reference, even though I have the quote pretty much entirely wrong?


 
Uncle Monty.


----------



## killer b (May 2, 2014)

it's uncle monty.


----------



## killer b (May 2, 2014)

fredfelt said:


> As with anything it's about context.  I don't deny Clarkson is a bell end.  However simply using a offensive, loaded or powerful word does not mean you should make assumptions about the person using the word.
> 
> I've not seen the video, I'm really not interested enough to watch.  However the word nigger came up in a counting out rhyme.  It was seemingly said without hate or malice.  It's use was definatley inadvisable and also inappropriate but I don't see any context where it was meant to be offensive.
> 
> ...


The context is of a man who’s stock in trade is hilarious anti-PC banter and borderline (no actual) racist jibes. What conclusions do you think one should draw from such a person using racist language? That it’s a convoluted and unfortunate misunderstanding as laid out in his apology video, or that he’s a racist?

He should have the guts to stand by his words, as a champion of free speech and slayer of sacred cows. Fuck him.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 2, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> otherwise why sort-of-say-it?


Exactly. It's a dreadful apology too. 'Sorry I allowed the tape to exist.'

I didn't even know that was the original word when I was a kid. We always said piggy.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 2, 2014)

Badgers said:


> The stench of dead flesh? The bloodied apron? Hearing his mother's sobs as she spends the heating money on cheap off cuts?


having an hand lopped off often makes a child whine in a butchers shop


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

fredfelt said:


> As with anything it's about context.  I don't deny Clarkson is a bell end.  However simply using a offensive, loaded or powerful word does not mean you should make assumptions about the person using the word.
> 
> I've not seen the video, I'm really not interested enough to watch.  However the word nigger came up in a counting out rhyme.  It was seemingly said without hate or malice.  It's use was definatley inadvisable and also inappropriate but I don't see any context where it was meant to be offensive.
> .


Did he have any other options when faced with a difficult choice between two things than to repeat a racist nursery rhyme? I think he did. He took this one though - well aware of what it meant. Why would an edgy look at me i'm non-pc presenter do that? The word didn't just come up in a rhyme. It came up in a rhyme that was _chosen because it contained that word_. Stop being so soppy ffs.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 2, 2014)

His apology made me even more sure he should go. It's clearly him parroting the best excuse BBC PR people could come up with, without the slightest hint of contrition.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 2, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Exactly. It's a dreadful apology too. 'Sorry I allowed the tape to exist.'
> 
> I didn't even know that was the original word when I was a kid. We always said piggy.


Heard it on the radio this morning, didn't he say something like "I did everything in my power not to say it".

Except... not saying it...?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 2, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Heard it on the radio this morning, didn't he say something like "I did everything in my power not to say it".
> 
> Except... not saying it...?


He said that he did everything in his power to prevent it from being broadcast. Sure Racist Ron Atkinson would have done the same given the chance. It's no kind of apology at all.

Also, he explained how you had to turn it up _really loud_ to hear it. Like saying things quietly makes them less bad.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 2, 2014)

fredfelt said:


> As with anything it's about context.  I don't deny Clarkson is a bell end.  However simply using a offensive, loaded or powerful word does not mean you should make assumptions about the person using the word.


I think you have this quite wrong. If someone uses certain words, you don't have to make assumptions about them. You have evidence from which to _draw conclusions_.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 2, 2014)

Anyway, I bet they won't sack him. Top Gear makes the BBC loads of money. Clarkson himself has made a staggering £14 million from it, not including wages.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 2, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He said that he did everything in his power to prevent it from being broadcast. Sure Racist Ron Atkinson would have done the same given the chance. It's no kind of apology at all.
> 
> Also, he explained how you had to turn it up _really loud_ to hear it. Like saying things quietly makes them less bad.


Ah, well, just another liberal witch hunt then.


----------



## Sigmund Fraud (May 2, 2014)

Lord Camomile said:


> Ah, well, just another liberal witch hunt then.



(((((Clarkson)))))


----------



## fredfelt (May 2, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Did he have any other options when faced with a difficult choice between two things than to repeat a racist nursery rhyme? I think he did. He took this one though - well aware of what it meant. Why would an edgy look at me i'm non-pc presenter do that? The word didn't just come up in a rhyme. It came up in a rhyme that was _chosen because it contained that word_. Stop being so soppy ffs.



I am generally quite soppy.  I'm also a woolly minded liberal who rarely goes a day without cycling, a been vegetarian for twenty years, involved in community and environmental activities, and I'm a fan of lycra.  I would probably weave yoghurt as well if I knew how to do it.  Therefore I am surprised that I don't take offence from Clarkson.

If I do have a point this seems like a question of etymology, rather than outright racism.  It would take more than a choice of a nursery rhyme to convince me that someone is a racist.

Out of interest I looked up the rhyme and I found the Wiki entry of interest - you might want to take a look.


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

fredfelt said:


> I am generally quite soppy.  I'm also a woolly minded liberal who rarely goes a day without cycling, a been vegetarian for twenty years, involved in community and environmental activities, and I'm a fan of lycra.  I would probably weave yoghurt as well if I knew how to do it.  Therefore I am surprised that I don't take offence from Clarkson.
> 
> If I do have a point this seems like a question of etymology, rather than outright racism.  It would take more than a choice of a nursery rhyme to convince me that someone is a racist.
> 
> Out of interest I looked up the rhyme and I found the Wiki entry of interest - you might want to take a look.


I'm not trying to convince you that he is a racist. I'm trying to outline that he made a choice to use a racially charged rhyme - knowing the racially charged elements - when he had no need whatsoever to do so. So he was playing a game of being racially offensive. And you can't see it. Because you've made it about the ryhme and just dissappeard all context about the person, the program and what they try to do.

And this, btw, is why liberals are so often the mug friends of racists.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 2, 2014)

Did anyone see this


----------



## D'wards (May 2, 2014)

I think Clarkson's mistake, apart from saying it in the first place of course, was his statement.

He should've stuck to the ol' Never Apologise, Never Explain policy, a quote attributed to many people; John Wayne, Morrissey and Oscar Wilde to name but three


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

The latter brought so unsuccessful a libel case that he ended up in jail for two years hard labour as a result.


----------



## weltweit (May 2, 2014)

Most people who know that rhyme, also know it is unacceptable. Clarkson was stupid starting saying it and should have immediately stopped. Even more stupid to say it on camera. That it wasn't broadcast says something. How the clip was leaked is interesting, someone must have it in for him, for all that like Clarkson, there are plenty for whom he is the devil incarnate.


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Anyone who knows that rhyme, also knows that it is unacceptable. Clarkson was stupid starting saying it and should have immediately stopped. Even more stupid to say it on camera. That it wasn't broadcast says something. How the clip was leaked is interesting, someone must have it in for him, for all that like Clarkson, there are plenty for whom he is the devil incarnate.


Or just a well paid knob doing unacceptable things that people don't know about - doesn't need to be "the devil incarnate".


----------



## weltweit (May 2, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Or jus a well paid knob doing unacceptable things that people don't know about - doesn't need to be "the devil incarnate".


I think a lot of people think Clarkson is somehow evil.
Can't see it myself, he is not that important either way, just another "entertainment" figure.


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

weltweit said:


> I think a lot of people think Clarkson is somehow evil.
> Can't see it myself, he is not that important either way, just another "entertainment" figure.


They might do. But what's that go to with my response to your claim of how this could have come out?


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (May 2, 2014)

Nigger, just because.


----------



## weltweit (May 2, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> They might do. But what's that go to with my response to your claim of how this could have come out?


Well someone leaked it, so yes it probably was someone pissed off at him.
I imagine there are many involved in TopGear on more normal wages than the three presenters.


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Well someone leaked it, so yes it probably was someone pissed off at him.
> I imagine there are many involved in TopGear on more normal wages than the three presenters.


Right, so, the reason for it might be the ones that i suggested rather than yours?


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> Nigger, just because.


Time you were moving on again.


----------



## weltweit (May 2, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Right, so, the reason for it might be the ones that i suggested rather than yours?


I don't recall really suggesting reasons .. just that it was interesting how it came out.


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> Nigger, just because.


Are you going to try and explain this post?


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (May 2, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Are you going to try and explain this post?



According to the BBC its okay to say it. In amy other setting you would be harshly lambasted for it.


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> According to the BBC its okay to say it.


That's your reason for saying it? Because you mistakenly think the BBC said that you could? Are there any other socially offensive terms that you're waiting to use but need the BBC seal of approval first?

You child.


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (May 2, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> That's your reason for saying it? Because you mistakenly think the BBC said that you could? Are there any other socially offensive terms that you're waiting to use but need the BBC seal of approval first?
> 
> You child.



What if I beg forgiveness for saying it?


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> What if I beg forgiveness for saying it?


What if you explained why it was such a funny thing to shout?


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (May 2, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> That's your reason for saying it? Because you mistakenly think the BBC said that you could? Are there any other socially offensive terms that you're waiting to use but need the BBC seal of approval first?
> 
> You child.



Ah, I see you selectively quoted my post actually.


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> Ah, I see you selectively quoted my post actually.


I didn't quote your post at all. Have another glass of 'red' and fuck off.
edit: Oh you mean the drunkenly edited in later part of a later post rather than your 'nigger' post. Well, even better.


----------



## butchersapron (May 2, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> According to the BBC its okay to say it. In amy other setting you would be harshly lambasted for it.


You shout the words:



> Nigger, just because.



because you think the BBC said it was ok and that you would not get away with it elsewhere?


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (May 2, 2014)

If its OK for a public figure to say it casually then I can casually say it.


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (May 2, 2014)

weltweit said:


> I think a lot of people think Clarkson is somehow evil.
> Can't see it myself, he is not that important either way, just another "entertainment" figure.



He's probably not. But he's  casually racist as has been shown numerous times e.g the Mexican comments he made.


----------



## discokermit (May 2, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> having an hand lopped off often makes a child whine in a butchers shop


often? links?


----------



## discokermit (May 2, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> Nigger, just because.


you fucking idiot.


----------



## killer b (May 2, 2014)

he's gone now. until next time anyway.


----------



## killer b (May 3, 2014)

'final warning'. and a pugnacious 'fuck you' column in the sun by the looks of it.


----------



## fredfelt (May 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> I'm not trying to convince you that he is a racist. I'm trying to outline that he made a choice to use a racially charged rhyme - knowing the racially charged elements - when he had no need whatsoever to do so. So he was playing a game of being racially offensive. And you can't see it. Because you've made it about the ryhme and just dissappeard all context about the person, the program and what they try to do.
> 
> And this, btw, is why liberals are so often the mug friends of racists.



Okay.  Could you please put it in context for me?  What is it that the person and the program tries to do?


----------



## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

fredfelt said:


> Okay.  Could you please put it in context for me?  What is it that the person and the program tries to do?


Are you serious? You are unaware that clarkson and the show have together tried to develop the image of him as a straight talking non-pc man of the people who won't be shut up and wil say what others are too thinking but too scared to say openly? You didn't know this context before making your post about his choice to use a racially inflammatory nursery rhyme when he had no need at all to do so?

You're sounding as bad as his original denial with this.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 3, 2014)

killer b said:


> 'final warning'.


Predictable. Top Gear makes the BBC too much money for them to sack him.


----------



## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

(Btw, if any passing mod feels like saying if the poster was banned for the use of the N word above or for being a returner...just idle curiosity if any of you read this, not a demand for answers or anything, ignore of course if you prefer)


----------



## maomao (May 3, 2014)

We always did 'ip dip dog shit' when I was a kid. Anyone using the 'n' word at my primary school would have been beaten to a pulp.

Clarkson should have been sacked for the 'slope' comment because it was deliberately racist and highly offensive to the person being pointed at. The mumbling doesn't make this one any better either as it deliberately references the racist version in an 'oh golly, we're not allowed to say that any more are we, pc gone mad' kind of way. He won't be sacked though. He's Cameron's personal court jester.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 3, 2014)

Clarkson reminds me of that bloke in the Life of Brian, Mathias, son of Deuteronomy of Gath.


----------



## 8ball (May 3, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> Nigger, just because.



That would probably have been ok if you'd just said it in the unedited rushes but it's gone out over the Internet waves - such is the peril of live broadcasting.


----------



## weltweit (May 3, 2014)

maomao said:


> We always did 'ip dip dog shit' when I was a kid. Anyone using the 'n' word at my primary school would have been beaten to a pulp.


How does that one go? I have never heard of it.



maomao said:


> Clarkson should have been sacked for the 'slope' comment because it was deliberately racist and highly offensive to the person being pointed at.


I didn't hear or see that one and haven't found it on the web yet but as I understand it he was making a double entendre because he was joking that the bridge had a slope on it. Anyhow I was unaware of the existence of the word at all until the following scene in Pulp Fiction:

It certainly seems insentitive, but if you think he should have been fired because of it, what about the program editors and the like, TopGear is not a one man show.



maomao said:


> The mumbling doesn't make this one any better either as it deliberately references the racist version in an 'oh golly, we're not allowed to say that any more are we, pc gone mad' kind of way. He won't be sacked though. He's Cameron's personal court jester.


I wonder about it.. it wasn't broadcast, I can see someone trying to weigh up to alternatives having only limited ways of doing it, heads or tails or eeni meeni miney mo .... being a couple and starting down the eenie meeni would basically be a mistake, certainly in company, definitely if you were being filmed etc etc !


----------



## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

Did he have to do it at all? No
Did he have to make a slope joke? No.
Have you anything to say? No.


----------



## weltweit (May 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Did he have to make a slope joke? No.


Did Quentin Tarantino have to include the slope reference in Pulp Fiction? No!


----------



## maomao (May 3, 2014)

weltweit said:


> How does that one go? I have never heard of it.



Ip dip dog shit, fucking bastard silly git, you are not it.



> I didn't hear or see that one and haven't found it on the web yet but as I understand it he was making a double entendre because he was joking that the bridge had a slope on it. Anyhow I was unaware of the existence of the word at all until the following scene in Pulp Fiction:
> 
> It certainly seems insentitive, but if you think he should have been fired because of it, what about the program editors and the like, TopGear is not a one man show.



Sack him and whoever had the ultimate decision to broadcast it. I don't see how it being a _double entendre_ changes it, the joke bit of it is still a racist joke. But anti east Asian racism is acceptable in a way that anti black and anti south Asian racism just isn't in this country. Even on here.


----------



## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Did Quentin Tarantino have to include the slope reference in Pulp Fiction? No!


Can you spot the difference? Let me fucking guess.


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 3, 2014)

weltweit said:


> *How does that one go?* I have never heard of it.
> 
> 
> I didn't hear or see that one and haven't found it on the web yet but as I understand it he was making a double entendre because he was joking that the bridge had a slope on it. Anyhow I was unaware of the existence of the word at all until the following scene in Pulp Fiction:
> ...




Ip dip dog-shit
You are not it.

That's what we did in the infants as well.
And like someone else has already said, swinging the word "nigger" about wouldn't have occurred to us nor would it have been advisable.


----------



## maomao (May 3, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Did Quentin Tarantino have to include the slope reference in Pulp Fiction? No!


That was a racist character in a work of fiction. A racist character in a BBC drama could use the 'n' word without being a problem for the actor. If Quentin Tarantino started talking about slopes in an interview a lot of people would be rather upset I'm sure.


----------



## maomao (May 3, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> Ip dip dog-shit
> You are not it.



You missed the middle line. 


> That's what we did in the infants as well.
> And like someone else has already said, swinging the word "nigger" about wouldn't have occurred to us nor would it have been advisable.


Though it was considered an Americanism when I was a kid. The racist word that didn't get used in my one third black school was 'wog'.


----------



## weltweit (May 3, 2014)

maomao said:


> Ip dip dog shit, fucking bastard silly git, you are not it.


Oh ok .... never come across that one.



maomao said:


> Sack him and whoever had the ultimate decision to broadcast it. I don't see how it being a _double entendre_ changes it, the joke bit of it is still a racist joke. But anti east Asian racism is acceptable in a way that anti black and anti south Asian racism just isn't in this country. Even on here.


If I am honest I don't think I know enough to differentiate between anti east Asian and anti south Asian, do you really think even on Urban it is more acceptable?


----------



## maomao (May 3, 2014)

weltweit said:


> If I am honest I don't think I know enough to differentiate between anti east Asian and anti south Asian, do you really think even on Urban it is more acceptable?



Yes, a couple of posters on here (a few years ago) were going on about Chinese women's fannies and it wasn't considered to be a thing.


----------



## maomao (May 3, 2014)

weltweit said:


> If I am honest I don't think I know enough to differentiate between anti east Asian and anti south Asian



You can't tell the difference between Chinese and Indian?


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 3, 2014)

maomao said:


> You missed the middle line.
> 
> Though it was considered an Americanism when I was a kid. The racist word that didn't get used in my one third black school was 'wog'.



We never had a middle line - That's how poor we were 

But who played rally-vo when they was kids? Kids in Rochdale played DeVallio - It was the same game though, I'd love to know where the original word came from.


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## weltweit (May 3, 2014)

maomao said:


> You can't tell the difference between Chinese and Indian?


Oh.. ok, yes usually  .. [ my geography lets me down though when you say things like east Asian... I think wtf does that mean? ]


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## weltweit (May 3, 2014)

I was just thinking, when I was a kid there were war comics, I am pretty sure they used to refer to the Germans as - the Hun, the Bosch, the Krauts, sausage eaters etc ...


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## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

weltweit said:


> I was just thinking, when I was a kid there were war comics, I am pretty sure they used to refer to the Germans as - the Hun, the Bosch, the Krauts, sausage eaters etc ...


Thanks for that welweit. Did you have pancakes too? Or were you making a point that clarkson choosing to use a rhyme that he didn't need to was just part of a culture-  a culture from 40 years ago


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## weltweit (May 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Thanks for that welweit. Did you have pancakes too? Or were you making a point that clarkson choosing to use a rhyme that he didn't need to was just part of a culture-  a culture from 40 years ago


Yes, we did have pancakes! How did you know?
Culture evolves, there are leaders, followers and there are plenty of laggards ..


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## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Yes, we did have pancakes! How did you know?
> Culture evolves, there are leaders, followers and there are plenty of laggards ..


How do laggards culture change? By challenging them and making it clear that they're not welcome.  He's been challenged.


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## 8ball (May 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Can you spot the difference? Let me fucking guess.


 
This is a tricky point with Clarkson, people certainly argue about the degre to which he is 'playing a character'.  I think he tries to play both sides of the fence himself with that one, so my sympathy is limited on that front.

The Mexican stuff was horrible and the 'slope' thing (which many people, including me, would never have noticed but I don't believe for a second was an innocent accident) was as well.  This one I think is building on top of those and it certainly makes a typical media shitstorm narrative, but I think it's important that this was something that was never aired (things that are never aired are going to involve embarassing slips of the tongue, if that's what it was*), and that the speech experts consulted said they couldn't be _totally_ sure, and there's a hell of a lot of Clarkson recorded speech content to play with.

*- it does seem ambiguous when you watch the tape - I can see why the Beeb would be very reluctant to kill one of their biggest cash cows over it


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## 8ball (May 3, 2014)

weltweit said:


> Oh ok .... never come across that one.


 
When I was a kid it started 'ip dip bird shit, who stepped in it...' - maybe the rest will come to me.


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## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

8ball said:


> This is a tricky point with Clarkson, people certainly argue about the degre to which he is 'playing a character'.  I think he tries to play both sides of the fence himself with that one, so my sympathy is limited on that front.
> 
> The Mexican stuff was horrible and the 'slope' thing (which many people, including me, would never have noticed but I don't believe for a second was an innocent accident) was as well.  This one I think is building on top of those and it certainly makes a typical media shitstorm narrative, but I think it's important that this was something that was never aired (things that are never aired are going to involve embarassing slips of the tongue, if that's what it was*), and that the speech experts consulted said they couldn't be _totally_ sure, and there's a hell of a lot of Clarkson recorded speech content to play with.
> 
> *- it does seem ambiguous when you watch the tape - I can see why the Beeb would be very reluctant to kill one of their biggest cash cows over it


Everything recorded is for going out when recorded. Decisions not to let it go out are different. Other than that, what are you saying?


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## 8ball (May 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Everything recorded is for going out when recorded. Decisions not to let it go out are different.


 
It's almost like you didn't read what I said at all.


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## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

8ball said:


> It's almost like you didn't read what I said at all.


No it's not.


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## Frances Lengel (May 3, 2014)

Oh fuck off anyone who thinks it's in any way alright to say "nigger"... Honest to god are we even having this conversation? In 2014? Really?


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## 8ball (May 3, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> Oh fuck off anyone who thinks it's in any way alright to say "nigger"... Honest to god are we even having this conversation? In 2014? Really?


 
See you in a week.


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## Frances Lengel (May 3, 2014)

8ball said:


> See you in a week.



What's that supposed to mean?


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## 8ball (May 3, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> What's that supposed to mean?


 
Hey, I quoted your post, so we might both be getting a week to think about it shortly.


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## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

He's snouting out a mod failing - _a hypocrisy_. What's he going to do with it? Where does the _campaign_  go next? Where you going with this 8 ball?


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## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

Why can't you just say that you think the twat banned for saying 'nigger' shouldn't have been. Why this passive aggressive snideyness. Is it a _result_ of never being open about your politics or is _why_ you're never open about your politics?


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## Frances Lengel (May 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> He's snouting out a mod failing - _a hypocrisy_. What's he going to do with it? Where does the _campaign_  go next? Where you going with this 8 ball?



I just said it's not alright to say nigger. Which it isn't.


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## 8ball (May 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Why this passive aggressive snideyness.


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## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

8ball said:


>


Yeah. Oh yeah. For real.


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## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> I just said it's not alright to say nigger. Which it isn't.


OTHER PEOPLE ARE BEING HYPOCRITES ON HERE. THE MODS I THINK.


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## 8ball (May 3, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> I just said it's not alright to say nigger. Which it isn't.


 
You did sort of imply that there is some current of people on this thread who thinks it's alright.  As far as I can tell _no one_ thinks it's alright.  Well, no one thinks it's alright for Jeremy Clarkson to say it in an old nursery rhyme when comparing two cars, including, apparently, Jeremy Clarkson.

You said 'are we even having this conversation in 2014' - as far as I can tell we aren't.


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## Frances Lengel (May 3, 2014)

An then we've got Thraig complicating matters.


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## 8ball (May 3, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> An then we've got Thraig complicating matters.


 
Dunno if that's a ref to another thread but I've been off Urban for a few days.


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## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

8ball said:


> Dunno if that's a ref to another thread but I've been off Urban for a few days.


It's ok, it's just been HYPOCRITES and INCONSISTENT PEoPLE.


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## 8ball (May 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> It's ok, it's just been HYPOCRITES and INCONSISTENT PEoPLE.


 


I'm not sure if you've read something into something or if you're just very, very drunk.  Why not just stick me down in the little black book and stop confusing yourself for a bit.


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## butchersapron (May 3, 2014)

8ball said:


> I'm not sure if you've read something into something or if you're just very, very drunk.  Why not just stick me down in the little black book and stop confusing yourself for a bit.


Are there not NYPOCRITES banning people _or not _(NYPOCRITES) for just _you know, posting stuff?_


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## 8ball (May 3, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Are there not NYPOCRITES banning people _or not _(NYPOCRITES) for just _you know, posting stuff?_


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## Chz (May 4, 2014)

Jesus, it didn't get as much press when he called for people's families to be executed. I think our priorities are a bit wrong here, even ignoring the very English thing of "I know you're not offended by it, but that's okay because I can be outraged _for_ you!".


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## 8ball (May 4, 2014)

Chz said:


> Jesus, it didn't get as much press when he called for people's families to be executed. I think our priorities are a bit wrong here, even ignoring the very English thing of "I know you're not offended by it, but that's okay because I can be outraged _for_ you!".


 
He never called for people's families to be executed - that was just another case of reporting being put together in such a way as to create a spectacle furthering certain agendas.


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## fredfelt (May 5, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Are you serious? You are unaware that clarkson and the show have together tried to develop the image of him as a straight talking non-pc man of the people who won't be shut up and wil say what others are too thinking but too scared to say openly? You didn't know this context before making your post about his choice to use a racially inflammatory nursery rhyme when he had no need at all to do so?
> 
> You're sounding as bad as his original denial with this.



I'm aware he has a column in the sun but I've not read it.  On the occasion I watch Top Gear it feels a bit like 'Last of the summer wine' - only Telegraph style.  A bunch of middle aged oafs putting on an entrainment show.  I don't see any particular agenda except self promotion.  I don't see a raciest agenda.  

Perhaps I'm naive, or perhaps I don't follow him closely enough, but if there is an agenda of the show I've always presumed it's to increase ratings for the show.


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## littlebabyjesus (May 5, 2014)

fredfelt said:


> I'm aware he has a column in the sun but I've not read it.  On the occasion I watch Top Gear it feels a bit like 'Last of the summer wine' - only Telegraph style.  A bunch of middle aged oafs putting on an entrainment show.  I don't see any particular agenda except self promotion.  I don't see a raciest agenda.
> 
> Perhaps I'm naive, or perhaps I don't follow him closely enough, but if there is an agenda of the show I've always presumed it's to increase ratings for the show.


Why does there have to be an agenda? Did Racist Ron Atkinson have an agenda when he came out with his disgusting racist rant? No. He was just _being racist_.

Also, this is not about working out whether or not Clarkson is a racist. The only question at issue is whether or not he did a racist thing. I would think the answer to that is a resounding 'yes'.


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## fredfelt (May 5, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Why does there have to be an agenda? Did Racist Ron Atkinson have an agenda when he came out with his disgusting racist rant? No. He was just _being racist_.
> 
> Also, this is not about working out whether or not Clarkson is a racist. The only question at issue is whether or not he did a racist thing. I would think the answer to that is a resounding 'yes'.



In regard to having an agenda I was following up on a point raised by Butcherspoon that to understand the racism you need to look at it in the 'context of the show and what it tries to do', so 'agenda' seems like a reasonable short hand for this idea.   - post 144 if you want to follow the conversation.

If I recall correctly I got involved in this thread in response to someone calling Clarkson a 'racist cunt'.  You may not be interested in 'working out whether or not Clarkson is a racist' but another poster clearly thought he was.  Your framing of the issue is different to the discussions I have been having.


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## xenon (May 5, 2014)

8ball said:


> This is a tricky point with Clarkson, people certainly argue about the degre to which he is 'playing a character'.  I think he tries to play both sides of the fence himself with that one, so my sympathy is limited on that front.
> 
> The Mexican stuff was horrible and the 'slope' thing (which many people, including me, would never have noticed but I don't believe for a second was an innocent accident) was as well.  This one I think is building on top of those and it certainly makes a typical media shitstorm narrative, but I think it's important that this was something that was never aired (things that are never aired are going to involve embarassing slips of the tongue, if that's what it was*), and that the speech experts consulted said they couldn't be _totally_ sure, and there's a hell of a lot of Clarkson recorded speech content to play with.
> 
> *- it does seem ambiguous when you watch the tape - I can see why the Beeb would be very reluctant to kill one of their biggest cash cows over it



Fuck the experts. He clearly mumbles the word nigger. Otherwise why mumble at all. He said it and realised he'd gone too far in his anti PC twatting about, so wanted it cut.


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## Chz (May 5, 2014)

He clearly thought the word gook while they were in Vietnam. Let's raise his crucifixion up to burning at the stake.


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## redsquirrel (May 6, 2014)

xenon said:


> Fuck the experts. He clearly mumbles the word nigger. Otherwise why mumble at all. He said it and realised he'd gone too far in his anti PC twatting about, so wanted it cut.


Precisely the mumbling perfectly illustrates why he (and the rest of the makers of the show) are scum, it shows the clear premeditation for this hilarious race-baiting joke. The fact that they later pulled out of showing it doesn't excuse them in any way.


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## butchersapron (Jul 28, 2014)

Top Gear’s Jeremy Clarkson ‘deliberately used offensive racial term’



> Jeremy Clarkson, put on final warning by the BBC earlier this year, deliberately used a pejorative racial term to refer to an Asian man on BBC2’s Top Gear, causing offense without justification and breaching broadcasting rules.
> 
> Media regulator Ofcom ruled on Monday that Clarkson’s comment, during a Top Gear Burma special aired in March, was offensive and in breach of generally accepted standards required of broadcasters.
> 
> Following a string of controversies about offensive remarks, Clarkson was put on final warning by the BBC in May, after unbroadcast Top Gear footage of him mumbling the N-word during the rhyme “Eeny, meeny, miny moe” was leaked.



Dos this make the context of his shtick any clearer to you fred?


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