# Being a "stay at home dad".



## chilango (Jun 4, 2012)

Posting here rather than in HRS cos I'm interested in the "career" implications. 

I'm a little concerned that it could be career suicide, on the other hand it could be quite liberating, I may pursue self-employment, own business etc. Hmm.

Do you have to tell the dole or someone to get your NI contributions?

Anyone done it?


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## Termite Man (Jun 4, 2012)

chilango said:


> Posting here rather than in HRS cos I'm interested in the "career" implications.
> 
> I'm a little concerned that it could be career suicide, on the other hand it could be quite liberating, I may pursue self-employment, own business etc. Hmm.
> 
> ...


 

My brother is being a stay at home Dad although they have done something where the father gets the maternity leave to care for the baby so I'm not sure if it's the same as you're asking.


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## AverageJoe (Jun 4, 2012)

I am. Kinda.

I realised when my first was born that with all the commuting and working in London etc that I was only seeing her at weekends, so I quit and set up my own business (working in the same field that I had been employed in).

3 years later and I have 6 staff, all of who are remotely based (2 UK, 2 Canada and 2 in the US). We work off Cloud servers so that everyone can access what is needed and - touch wood - its all doing fine.

The best thing I ever did.


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## newbie (Jun 4, 2012)

my friend brought up three kids while his wife worked.  Kids and wife thrived but I can't really say his career did, he's been doing minimum wage stuff since he went back to work (youngest is mid 20s now) but they do live in the middle of rural isolation and it's work with animals that he loves.


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## Thora (Jun 4, 2012)

chilango said:


> Posting here rather than in HRS cos I'm interested in the "career" implications.
> 
> I'm a little concerned that it could be career suicide, on the other hand it could be quite liberating, I may pursue self-employment, own business etc. Hmm.
> 
> ...


I think if you get the child benefit paid to you then that covers your NI.

How old are your children?  Unless they are at school you might find it quite hard to set up a business and look after them full time.


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## chilango (Jun 4, 2012)

Thora said:


> I think if you get the child benefit paid to you then that covers your NI.
> 
> How old are your children? Unless they are at school you might find it quite hard to set up a business and look after them full time.


 
She'll be 6 months old when I start looking after her f/t.

Yeah, I don't plan on doing much "work" whilst looking after her. Rather just putting things in place for later. It'd be work as "an Artist" so stuff like painting, exhibiting, maintaining a website etc. Not likely  to bring much money in, but more for continuity's sake and so I have something to pursue whilst taking the inevitable hit when I try and go back to work in a couple of years time.


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## Thora (Jun 4, 2012)

chilango said:


> She'll be 6 months old when I start looking after her f/t.
> 
> Yeah, I don't plan on doing much "work" whilst looking after her. Rather just putting things in place for later. It'd be work as "an Artist" so stuff like painting, exhibiting, maintaining a website etc. Not likely to bring much money in, but more for continuity's sake and so I have something to pursue whilst taking the inevitable hit when I try and go back to work in a couple of years time.


I was doing a part time OU course at the same stage and needed two mornings paid childcare (8 hours total) plus an other half who did lots of weekend childcare to get anything done.  Broken sleep at night plus a baby who only napped for short periods in a sling/pram meant not much time to get anything done.


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## chilango (Jun 4, 2012)

Thora said:


> I was doing a part time OU course at the same stage and needed two mornings paid childcare (8 hours total) plus an other half who did lots of weekend childcare to get anything done. Broken sleep at night plus a baby who only napped for short periods in a sling/pram meant not much time to get anything done.


 
Aye.

Like I said, not anticipating _doing_ an awful lot. More thinking about things that I can keep "ticking over" if/when I have the chance.


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## wayward bob (Jun 4, 2012)

i'm not a dad, but my situation is similar to yours in quite a lot of ways. i'd recently left a 5-year job and was working freelance when i got upduffed with my first and we figured that since my income was less than childcare would cost it made sense for me to "stay at home". i did it for a long time: 8 years, until the youngest was at school full time. during that time i developed my crafting and established a moderately successful blog. i also did various other stuff to keep up a semblance of employability: voluntary work (web stuff and heavy involvement in nct committees) and a couple of part time jobs (shop work and freelance admin) that i could fit in when mr b was able to cover with the kids.

which all a) let me do something i felt was important to their development b) gave me space to pursue/discover my own interests and c) gave me a solid portfolio to get into art school, which, it turns out is what i _should_ have been doing all along 

my next step after college is to attempt a career as an artist. i'm also trying to pick up as many technical design skills as i can as another string to my bow. i know that full time employment will never work for me, but a (bleurgh ) portfolio career, doing bits and pieces as/when i'm able looks like it would suit me down to the ground.

i think what i'm basically saying is DO IT


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## chilango (Jun 4, 2012)

> keep up a semblance of employability


 
Yup. It's proved hard enough right now to be "employable". Never mind with few years gap to add to my CV.


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## sheothebudworths (Jun 4, 2012)

Thora said:


> I think if you get the child benefit paid to you then that covers your NI.


 

Yeah, this is right re the NI conts.


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## chilango (Jun 4, 2012)

sheothebudworths said:


> Yeah, this is right re the NI conts.


 
..and if I don't? If the CB gets paid to the mother? 

Sorry, don't know much about any of this stuff.


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## newbie (Jun 4, 2012)

I don't think I know anyone able to support themselves through 'art' except through teaching.*

Most of the women I know who became full-ish time childcarers re-entered the world of work via some sort of retraining course and that's been almost universally very beneficial. Not many are doing the same as their original, pre-children, jobs but tbh most have entered into areas of work that seem (anecdotally) tailored for women just like them... libraries, healthcare (occupational health, physio etc), schools and so on.

I'm not sure whether a man would find such a well trodden re-entry path.


*  e2a not true, it occurs to me that one friend has had a market stall selling handpainted silk since her now-grown children were tiny.


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## sheothebudworths (Jun 4, 2012)

chilango said:


> ..and if I don't? If the CB gets paid to the mother?
> 
> Sorry, don't know much about any of this stuff.


 
Then...you have to make voluntary payments or lose entitlement to a state pension etc....I think? 

If you are going to be the stay at home parent it basically just makes no sense at all for you _not_ to be the one in receipt of the child ben!


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## chilango (Jun 4, 2012)

sheothebudworths said:


> Then...you have to make voluntary payments or lose entitlement to a state pension etc....I think?
> 
> If you are going to be the stay at home parent it basically just makes no sense at all for you _not_ to be the one in receipt of the child ben!


 
Ok. So I can_ choose_ to be the one paid CB?


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## sheothebudworths (Jun 4, 2012)

You choose between you who it'll be paid to, yes.
I think it's possibly automatically given to the mother, unless you request otherwise (although I might be completely making this up   ) but certainly, it can be paid to the father instead, yes.


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## chilango (Jun 4, 2012)

newbie said:


> I don't think I know anyone able to support themselves through 'art' except through teaching.*
> 
> Most of the women I know who became full-ish time childcarers re-entered the world of work via some sort of retraining course and that's been almost universally very beneficial. Not many are doing the same as their original, pre-children, jobs but tbh most have entered into areas of work that seem (anecdotally) tailored for women just like them... libraries, healthcare (occupational health, physio etc), schools and so on.
> 
> ...


 

I am a well-qualified, well-experienced art teacher. I'd hope to go back to this. I'm good at it. But teaching jobs are few and far between right now and highly competitive. I've had little enough luck getting shortlisted right now, nevermind with few years' break on my CV.

It does worry me that employers won't be quite as understanding of a man who takes time out of a career for looking after their child.


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## chilango (Jun 4, 2012)

sheothebudworths said:


> You choose between you who it'll be paid to, yes.
> I think it's possibly automatically given to the mother, unless you request otherwise (although I might be completely making this up   ) but certainly, it can be paid to the father instead, yes.


 
Cool. These are the things I need to find out.


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## wayward bob (Jun 4, 2012)

newbie said:


> I don't think I know anyone able to support themselves through 'art' except through teaching.*


 
you must move in the wrong circles: i know _loads_  (who may incidentally have teaching as an additional string to their bows). we had a lecture the other day that started with two of our tutors saying "look! we exist! a real life working designer and a real life working artist!" 

and one of the best parts about going back to college is that they really focus heavily on employability/selfemployability: they're giving us the practical tools for how to make a living at this stuff 



newbie said:


> I'm not sure whether a man would find such a well trodden re-entry path.


 
eh? are you saying that men aren't able to work in libraries/schools/healthcare?


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## newbie (Jun 4, 2012)

no of course not, my emphasis was more that the path isn't so established as for women- not so many men take a childcare career break, so a man is more likely to find a slightly quizzical eyebrow raised.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 4, 2012)

chilango said:


> It does worry me that employers won't be quite as understanding of a man who takes time out of a career for looking after their child.


I wouldn't worry about that unless you were thinking of going for job with unusually cuntish people.


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## nagapie (Jun 4, 2012)

chilango, I'm not really sure why you are struggling to get a job still. I feel sure that if you were in the UK, specifically in a city, you would find work. And your profession is easy to get back into, you can do subject specific supply through an agency which often leads to permanent work.


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## chilango (Jun 4, 2012)

nagapie said:


> chilango, I'm not really sure why you are struggling to get a job still. I feel sure that if you were in the UK, specifically in a city, you would find work. And your profession is easy to get back into, you can do subject specific supply through an agency which often leads to permanent work.



Thanks.

I hope so.


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## Sue (Jun 5, 2012)

Erm, do women not have to do this all the time...?


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## wayward bob (Jun 5, 2012)

no, luckily we all have well trodden library/school/healthcare paths to follow 

yay us.


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## wayward bob (Jun 5, 2012)

athough obvs, if you're an artist you're fucked


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## friedaweed (Jun 5, 2012)

I did it with both of mine for just over a year with each (7 year gap). Best move I ever made in their upbringing. I'm not saying it's the only reason but I have a fantastic bond with both of mine which I feel was greatly assisted by being a full on-full time dad in their infant years.

I did real nappies too

I didn't really sort out my stamp duty or owt like that which in hindsight I should have done really. With the daughter I just quit my job one day and took her out of nursery. Everyone thought I was having a fucking nervous breakdown at the time  but really I was just sick of paying someone else a truckload of dosh to do what I really wanted to do myself and fed up just killing myself at work only to tuck her in at night before I sat down at my computer to do more work. The job I was doing at the time was very well paid and we worried like fuck about the money but within no time at all we just adapted to what we had. The ex was very much a career woman and still is so I was lucky in that respect.

In short..go for it. It'll be a struggle at first but you'll reap the benefits as they grow up.

As Sue says women have done it for aeons and I was reminded of that when I turned up at the mums and tots group  I never felt like I was doing anything special but always felt lucky that I was able to do it.

It's never stopped me getting work. In fact it's probably helped in some ways.

Frieda


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## wayward bob (Jun 5, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> I'm not saying it's the only reason but I have a fantastic bond with both of mine which I feel was greatly assisted by being a full on-full time dad in their infant years.


 
i don't believe it's the *only* way by a long stretch: my fella worked full time and only got the 2 weeks paternity leave for each of ours. they have an awesome connection  but still, i think if you're tempted by the idea - if you think you can hack it  - it pays out _massively_ ime  what matters most to small kids is that they're being cared for by people who give a fuck. i've yet to meet an adult brought up by at least one parent/adult who gave a fuck who wasn't pretty much well adjusted


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## friedaweed (Jun 5, 2012)

wayward bob said:


> i don't believe it's the *only* way by a long stretch: my fella worked full time and only got the 2 weeks paternity leave for each of ours. they have an awesome connection  but still, i think if you're tempted by the idea - if you think you can hack it  - it pays out _massively_ ime  what matters most to small kids is that they're being cared for by people who give a fuck. i've yet to meet an adult brought up by at least one parent/adult who gave a fuck who wasn't pretty much well adjusted


Absolutely Bob


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## Glitter (Jun 5, 2012)

If you fill in the CB forms in your name your stamp will be covered until the youngest is 12. 

And yes, it can go in your name.


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## mr steev (Jun 5, 2012)

I've sort of been a stay-at-home dad for the last few years. The last couple I've been working 2 days a week and have her the rest of the time.
I'm self-employed (in the arty/teaching way) and I must say that my 'career' has suffered. A lot down to me sitting on my laurels a bit, slowing down on the networking and not putting myself about as much as I should. Although I think my sense of priorities shifted so I didn't feel that motivated... or at least other things were more important.
Now that my job has finished I am at a bit of a dead end! The area that I work in is very different from how it was a few years ago, seemingly with jobs and opportunities very thin on the ground


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## chilango (Jun 6, 2012)

It's gonna be cool.

Hard work, but cool.

I'm a lucky, lucky man!


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## weltweit (Jun 6, 2012)

I was a stay home dad for about 7 years, and also did part time self employment at the same time. I think it has weakenned my CV quite a lot but I could not have had it another way.

You may find you are not fully accepted by the mums brigade at the school gates, nor by the working fathers though I think it is becoming more and more acceptable bit by bit.


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## mr steev (Jun 6, 2012)

weltweit said:


> You may find you are not fully accepted by the mums brigade at the school gates, nor by the working fathers though I think it is becoming more and more acceptable bit by bit.


 
Sadly yeah. Expect a few patronising comments about babysitting and how your wife has you well trained.


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## chilango (Jun 6, 2012)

mr steev said:


> Sadly yeah. Expect a few patronising comments about babysitting and how your wife has you well trained.


 
Pah.

I will _delight_ in pointing out that "She's not my wife. We're not married."

...whilst I still can .


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## nagapie (Jun 6, 2012)

That's sad. Where I live the mums I know are really welcoming to the stay at home dads.


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## kittyP (Jun 6, 2012)

newbie said:
			
		

> no of course not, my emphasis was more that the path isn't so established as for women- not so many men take a childcare career break, so a man is more likely to find a slightly quizzical eyebrow raised.



I have found (with schools and therapeutic roles) that those jobs are crying out for just the kind of men that would take a career break for children rearing. 
There are much more open arms than quizzical eyebrows.


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## chilango (Jun 6, 2012)

kittyP said:


> I have found (with schools and therapeutic roles) that those jobs are crying out for *just the kind of men that would take a career break for children rearing*.
> There are much more open arms than quizzical eyebrows.


 
What do you mean by this? 


 ....but really what do you mean by this?


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## mr steev (Jun 6, 2012)

nagapie said:


> That's sad. Where I live the mums I know are really welcoming to the stay at home dads.


 
I have a mate who refuses to go to wacky-warehouse type places on his own as he says he feels like a nonce and has had mums move their children away from him! Now that's sad. The comments I've received have just been annoying tbh. Female cashiers tend to be the worse with the 'well trained' remarks, I guess they see it as making conversation but it still irks. The babysitting comments mostly come from older Asian blokes, but not exclusively.

I must say that I gave up on toddler groups as I felt like a spare part, but my daughter has enough friends of her own age and goes to nursery for a couple of days now so she's getting plenty of interaction


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## chilango (Jun 6, 2012)

I get a lot of comments and fuss when I'm out with my baby daughter on my own (shop assistants going a bit crazy with compliments and congratulations, small children asking where her mummy is etc.). Particularly during the day. But I'm in Italy at the moment where "Mama" is everything, and grandparents take a much more active role in childcare. So long as my daughter is fully accepted into things I can cope with a bit of interrogation...


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## rubbershoes (Jun 6, 2012)

also expect comments about you not being able to find a job

a mate of mine got this all the time. even after he explained that him and his wife had agreed he'd give up work to look after their twins, people would still say something will turn up soon


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## kittyP (Jun 6, 2012)

chilango said:
			
		

> What do you mean by this?
> 
> ....but really what do you mean by this?



I work in a special needs school, so also by proxy with the therapists (and their assistants) that work there in. 

Because my job attracts mainly women (some of that due to it fitting in with childcare) it becomes incredibly female centric and unbalanced. 

The kind of jobs newbie mentioned might raise a quizzical eyebrow at a man joining, in my experience actually really love it when a bloke turns up. 
Especially if it involves working with young people.


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## kittyP (Jun 6, 2012)

.


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## chilango (Jun 6, 2012)

kittyP said:


> I work in a special needs school, so also by proxy with the therapists (and their assistants) that work there in.
> 
> Because my job attracts mainly women (some of that due to it fitting in with childcare) it becomes incredibly female centric and unbalanced.
> 
> ...


 
I am a teacher as it happens.


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## kittyP (Jun 6, 2012)

chilango said:
			
		

> I am a teacher as it happens.



I know 
I was not talking about teaching. 
I am not a teacher. 

Maybe I misinterpreted what newbie said.


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## Thora (Jun 6, 2012)

I think SAHDs are becoming much more common - I work in a nursery and off the top of my head there are at least 3 children in my class with SAHDs (who might do some self-employed/part-time work) as their main carer.  There's also at least one SAHD's playgroup I know of (as well as some Saturday dad's playgroups).


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## friedaweed (Jun 6, 2012)

To be honest the little sarcasm I got I took with a pinch of salt and just brushed it off. In all honesty I got a lot more thumbs up than I ever wanted or expected but at the end of the day, probably like yourself chilango, I felt incredibly lucky to be doing it.

It's not the societal norm for sure but it's not your fault and if anyone finds it strange I used to worry more for the people who were perplexed by it than I let it affect myself. It's a shame it has to be a big deal really with some people but that's enveloped with all sorts of historical norms that are best left in the past. I think nowadays the majority of freethinking folk don't see it as an issue at all and maybe the fact that we do when we embark on it says a lot about our own upbringing.  I give a lot more kudos to my ex who went back to work to provide the roof over our heads than I did myself for doing something I just settled right into. I was always aware though that a lot of mums never had the luxury of choice. My own mother being one of them.

My mother and my mother in law were both great sources of support for me, you can read all the books you like but your Ma is the only encyclopaedia you need  my dad on the other hand wondered what the fuck I was doing jacking in my job but he so gets it now. In fact he loves having my youngest over now and is a full on grandad much more than he was a dad but then again it's the time he was in. In the end everyone got used to it but me  but then you never really get used to raising kids no matter what ya got between your legs. 

Just enjoys it. The teething, the nappies, the tantrums, the magic. If you get stuck there's loads of good mums and dads here to help


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## wayward bob (Jun 6, 2012)

friedaweed said:


> Just enjoys it. The teething, the nappies, the tantrums, the magic. If you get stuck there's loads of good mums and dads here to help


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## chilango (Apr 22, 2013)

Well I thought I'd post an update on this several months in.

The good things:

It's been amazing spending so much time with my daughter, seeing her grow so, so quick and change every day. I wouldn't swap this for anything. So, despite what I'm gonna say below, no regrets.

The bad things:

It's terribly lonely. I go to lots of "mother and baby things" but whilst everyone is perfectly friendly, and there sometimes being other dads there, there's not the "cameraderie" (for want of a better word) that you'd get in a workplace. I've not made any friends through these groups and most of the mums of kids my daughters age have gone back to work now. I can go days without having a conversation about anything other than babies. 

It's also often REALLY boring. Sure, when she's up and about it's great fun, but there's only so many times you can sing the same nursery rhymes! ...and there's a lot of being stuck in the house whilst she sleeps or trudging around town cos we're broke and it's pissing down with rain.


It does seem to have been career suicide. The SAHD thing probably isn't the direct cause of this, but having a CV gap, no matter how sympathetic, finishes my already slim chances of local, affordable employment. 

The other effect of this is that my partner is stuck in her 12 hours a day, 6 days a week job. We're lucky, it pays well enough that can (just) manage on a single income, but until I find decent work she can't quit for a job where she gets to spend more time with us.

My social life has vanished. No gym, no footie, no punk band, no mountaineering. But, we do make sure that we both do something for ourselves once or twice a week. So we working on this at least!

...but she's just dashed over to give me a big hug so who cares?


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## MillwallShoes (Apr 22, 2013)

chilango said:


> Well I thought I'd post an update on this several months in.
> 
> The good things:
> 
> ...


that's almost exactly how it is for me mate. been doing it since ours was 6 months old, and she is coming up to a year and half now.

it can be very boring, i admit. and draining as all time is taken up by the little ball of trouble.

cbeebies helps sometimes - what's your favourite? I watch post man pat a lot, but it'll change next week.

toddler groups a few times a week help, i've found.

you south london based?


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## MillwallShoes (Apr 22, 2013)

nagapie said:


> That's sad. Where I live the mums I know are really welcoming to the stay at home dads.


same round here.


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## chilango (Apr 22, 2013)

MillwallShoes said:


> that's almost exactly how it is for me mate. been doing it since ours was 6 months old, and she is coming up to a year and half now.
> 
> it can be very boring, i admit. and draining as all time is taken up by the little ball of trouble.
> 
> ...



My favourite CBeebies? Heh heh. I, we, love The Night Garden. Also Little Princess is pretty ace!

Yeah we have a timetable of activities, something every morning (except Thursday - our day off!)


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## MillwallShoes (Apr 22, 2013)

it's not the childcare as such that is the challenge, it's the soddin house work! combine the two: GRAFT!

hark at me whining!

having young children is very, very hard.


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## Red Cat (Apr 22, 2013)

I suggest that you get yourself a good sling and get her on your back and go do some stuff that interests you. Where do you live? What do you like? 

Why not set up an outdoor play group? You're into mountaineering and camping - why not use some of that knowledge?


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## MillwallShoes (Apr 22, 2013)

Red Cat said:


> I suggest that you get yourself a good sling and get her on your back and go do some stuff that interests you. Where do you live? What do you like?
> 
> Why not set up an outdoor play group? You're into mountaineering and camping - why not use some of that knowledge?


too tired?

jokez. good idea


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## Red Cat (Apr 22, 2013)

What did you teach? What kind of work have you been looking for?


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## friedaweed (Apr 22, 2013)

The better weathers coming  it will get a bit easier then. Being able to get out is the only way to ensure that the housework stays done longer than 5 minutes  I learned quickly (from me sis actually) to get the house done early in the morning and get out for as much of the day as is humanly possible.
I've still got the same habits I had when I was a stay at home.

Washing machine emptied and loaded before I have a coffee/poo
Beds made whilst they're in the shower (Mine are 7 and 14 and I still use hot running water to get some peace from them)
Clothes always out and ready the night before
Take stuff out the freezer in the morning for the evening meal
Do the dishes before you go to bed
Their toys their job to put them back in the toy box
Fuck knows what sort of mess I'd be in if it wasn't for my lovely children and the way they forced me to be organised


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## mr steev (Apr 22, 2013)

chilango said:


> and there's a lot of being stuck in the house whilst she sleeps or trudging around town cos we're broke and it's pissing down with rain.


 

You'll miss those nap times when they're gone ime. It's the only time you get some time for yourself (or at least to get things done). After they first drop them the days seem very long for a while.
I won't say it gets any easier as they get older, but it's more fun, less boring and downright hilarious sometimes. They do entertain themselves a lot more, but when they want to play it's a lot more demanding. Sometimes I think singing the same nursery rhyme over and over is a lot less taxing than playing hide and seek (and being told to hide in the same place over and over) or sitting down having a tea party with a dozen dolls and teddies 



MillwallShoes said:


> it's not the childcare as such that is the challenge, it's the soddin house work! combine the two: GRAFT!


 
Me and my daughter spent most of the afternoon sweeping and mopping all the floors in our flat (even at 4 she's better at housework then her mum ) ...  I then decided we'd make pizza for tea


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## Red Cat (Apr 22, 2013)

I just read the earlier bit of the thread and see that you're an art teacher. Lots of artists I know do early years work, mainly in children's centres. Funding isn't quite what it was though. But if you could set up a toddler art group? I want to set up a group where people bring along things like boxes, fabric, old clothes and just see what the kids do with them, like a re-cycling play group. Early years is an interesting area to work in - it doesn't have to be all nursery rhymes.

Do you know about reggio emilia?

I'm a SAHM not a dad btw.


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## fractionMan (Apr 22, 2013)




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## IC3D (Apr 22, 2013)

The kiddy stuff is better when they get chatting


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## scifisam (Apr 23, 2013)

Could you sign up for an OU course to do during those down times? That would help the gap in your CV too. Although you can always put "full time childcare" down in that gap too - it's a valid reason and, especially in teaching, won't harm your prospects.


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## chilango (Apr 23, 2013)

scifisam said:


> Could you sign up for an OU course to do during those down times? That would help the gap in your CV too. Although you can always put "full time childcare" down in that gap too - it's a valid reason and, especially in teaching, won't harm your prospects.



No cash for an OU course I'm afraid . Nor really the time/energy.

Oh I know full-time child care is a perfectly valid CV gap, but it's still a gap when in compete tuition with those without gaps. It's cutthroat out there right now.


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## chilango (Apr 23, 2013)

redcat some nice ideas, cheers. But tbh I'm really not that interested in early years stuff so the idea of starting some sort of play group thing leaves me cold. I guess thats part of my problem...the other mums love to talk about "baby stuff" and get really enthusiastic, and knowledgable, about it, but it bores me rigid. . I love MY baby, but it's just not an interesting area for me y'know?

I've go a cool child carrying backpack and when he weathers good we go for walks along the Thames etc. it's been flooded for months though!

What about Reggio Emilia by the way?


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## chilango (Apr 23, 2013)

fractionMan said:


>




That's kinda awful, kinda brilliant.


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## Red Cat (Apr 23, 2013)

chilango said:


> redcat some nice ideas, cheers. But tbh I'm really not that interested in early years stuff so the idea of starting some sort of play group thing leaves me cold. I guess thats part of my problem...the other mums love to talk about "baby stuff" and get really enthusiastic, and knowledgable, about it, but it bores me rigid. . I love MY baby, but it's just not an interesting area for me y'know?
> 
> I've go a cool child carrying backpack and when he weathers good we go for walks along the Thames etc. it's been flooded for months though!
> 
> What about Reggio Emilia by the way?


 
Sure, playgroup talk can be very dull.

But, my idea of a playgroup is about doing a different type of playgroup, so getting away from the very narrow idea of children's activity that dominates most things available for children, so activities that are for both adult and child rather than the adult only watching the activity of the child. I set up an outdoor playgroup and while there wasn't quite as much fire-building and cooking or skill sharing as I'd imagined, it was a lot more interesting being outside walking and talking and building dens and watering plants than being inside refereeing fights over little tikes trikes. In the summer it would be more of a picnic but sometimes someone would bring a musical instrument down and practice while the kids played. It wasn't all about the child, it was a bit more equal. Obviously you need a bunch of people who want to do something a little different but you may find other parents who are bored stiff too.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that there are ways of thinking about babyhood and early childhood that are more interesting, that emphasise the child's agency and self-direction, their sociability and their participation in our culture. From a political point of view, I find this a really interesting period of life.

Reggio Emilia, the early years practice developed in that town by working parents and teachers after WW II - non- hierarchical, anti-fascist. It's the most progressive early years practice around and very different from the still common approach that sees children as recipients of adults culture and knowledge. As a lefty politico you may find it interesting. Lots of stuff online. It's an approach that has influenced the most reputable children's centres in the UK, my local one included.

Also, the new sociology of childhood sees children as creating their own culture in contrast to traditional sociology which tended to looked at socialisation and transmission of culture with the children playing a passive role. It's a much more dialectical approach, again interesting from a political pov.

Even if doing things differently seems impossible, thinking about childhood politically helped make my time more interesting as a SAHM.


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## chilango (Apr 23, 2013)

Cheers Red Cat. Food for thought there! I'll have a look at the Reggio Emilia stuff.


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## chilango (May 20, 2013)

They had a feature on Stay at Home Dads on the BBC this morning. Two nice middle class men talking about their difficulties doing it. Employment prospects etc. turns out one had carried on working for 2 1/2 days a week and other freelanced whilst the baby slept.

Hmmmm.


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