# Keep Paddick Campaign



## hatboy (Mar 18, 2002)

*Lee Jasper & Keep Paddick Campaign*

I understand from today's news that Lee Jasper has said that he will mount a campaign to keep Paddick in his job if necessary. Well, if you are reading this Lee - that's necessary now, before a final decision is made on his future.

I would like to be a part of this campaign.  Would anyone else? Please sign below.

I am now going to look for a contact email or phone number for Lee. Could anyone who already knows of one please also post it below.  Thanks everyone. Let's bite the bullet and mobilise on this one.


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 18, 2002)

Well, Lee Jasper works for GLA so we should be able to contact him via their offices. I have emailed my support for Paddick to the MPA and the Commissioner of the Met. I agree we must mobilise quickly. A petition around Brixton would be a good start. I don't have a printer that works (pathetic isn't it) but count me in for pounding the streets for signatures of support.


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## editor (Mar 18, 2002)

Can you keep me in the loop for this one? I'm sure I can get the odd journo interested in the story!


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 18, 2002)

Could we get Grubby Local to do a similar thing to 'We Luv Our Pub Guv' in the SLP? A form (that CAN be photocopied) 'We Luv Our Top Cop' form in the Big Issue! Sorry if it's too mad an idea. I just think loads of different things, serious and more light-hearted is a campaign on many fronts.


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## flygirl (Mar 18, 2002)

available, willing, originally a Lambeth girl and angry.
I've mailed commissioner@met already. I want to do more.
fly


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## crash12bandit (Mar 18, 2002)

MPA chairman Lord Harris said: "I have been impressed by recent progress made by Commander Paddick in his efforts to build up relationships with the community in Lambeth and drive down crime. I hope these improvements will continue." 

This is taken from the www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,1271,-1593870,00.html site... a glimmer of hope maybe?? I hope so... I'm sure "St. Paddick's day" is media friendly enough. Although I must have said it about 20 time by now... I'll stop, I'm obviously in way over my head.


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## drfranni (Mar 18, 2002)

I'll do mostly anything and so will the Spawn who feel very strongly indeed as 1) They  have also been the victims of the gutter press and 2) They have been helped and protected by the Lambeth police


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## dozzer (Mar 18, 2002)

I'm not from Lambeth but would really like to show my support for Brian. I think what's happening is disgusting.


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## hatboy (Mar 18, 2002)

I can't seem to find an address for Jasper. Mrs Magpie please assist.


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## detective-boy (Mar 18, 2002)

*Contacting Lee Jasper*

Mrs Magpie's right.  If you ring the general GLA number they should put you through to his office.  I think his e-mail is lee.jasper@london.gov.uk but I'll check it tomorrow for you.


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 18, 2002)

I can't remember the address for the Greater London Authority. I signed off and rang a friend to get Lee Jaspers details but he's out. I'm sure that detective-boys email address if not right is damn close!

Ken Livingstone has issued a spirited defence of Paddick (Nice to hear him talking again! He's been quite quiet recently!)


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## Wireman (Mar 18, 2002)

*For what it's worth...*

I'd like to add my name to the list. I don't live in Brixton but I work for a national newspaper. Please don't assume we're all like that disgraceful, hypocritical Kensington rag.

I want to ask Paul Dacre: If your teenage daughter was caught smoking a joint in the King's Road, would you prefer her to be dealt with by a cop like Paddick, or one of the sinister "police insiders" who are driving your papers' witch-hunt?

Lambeth can stop this vile vendetta. Protest.


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## crash12bandit (Mar 18, 2002)

http://media.guardian.co.uk/top100/story/0,10430,512797,00.html the man in all his glory... if you can call it that!

I thinlk that would be a dam good front page article Wireman! Go for it


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## tulsehilloldboy (Mar 18, 2002)

Well I've done my little bit. I too have sent an email to commissioner@met.police.uk . Not too sure whether it will do any good. Sorry I can't do more (As I am away studying in Wales at the moment). If anyone starts up an email petition, I'll put my name on it!


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## grubby local (Mar 18, 2002)

Mrs Magpie - I emailed the support letter to the SLP and others last week. Standard printing it tomorrow - they might do some editorial off the back of it.
gx


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## crash12bandit (Mar 18, 2002)

Good work Grubbster... how you feeling? 

Must feel a little mixed hey..?

Glad you released the true BP?


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## Choc (Mar 18, 2002)

a lot of very good changes took place in brixton in the past year, and this is said by someone who lives right in the heart of brixton since 4 years. much more needs still doing though, and we can't afford to loose someone special in the policeforce who actually could cope with brixton (and this very successfully) to a somewhat rumourous story of an ex-partner in the yellow press. i would like to see a police men/officer who had never had anyone who smoked a spliff in his/her flat (this is all just unreal if it wouldn't be happening). 

so we should act quickly while the media is still reporting. how about  wednesday afternoon (this is my quick intuition) in front of brixton police station. looking our best, representing the local citizens and just say no, we are not interested whether he ever had a puff or partner who smoked spliffs because this is absolutly not relevant at this time in and for brixton and basically that we want him back.

(latest since today i'm ready to go on the street to demonstrate for a good police representation in an area that needs it and is worth it))


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## wildwildlifer (Mar 18, 2002)

I ewould add my support.
Perhaps we could have a pro-police riot!


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## Wireman (Mar 18, 2002)

*Do it... do it... do it... but play nice.*

I can guarantee there isn't a media outlet on the planet that wouldn't cover a pro-police demo by the people of Lambeth.

But, please, no violence. That is exactly what the likes of The Mail want.

Get it organised, make it colourful, keep it to the single issue that Lambeth loves The Commander and doesn't want to lose him and no newspaper, telly or radio station could resist.

And do it quick, before the story fades and Brian is left to rot at the Yard.

...oh and let me know when. I want to be there.


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## hatboy (Mar 18, 2002)

I have emailed Lee Jasper about this, But I'm not convinced I've got the address right.  I have lee.jasper@lambeth.gov.uk


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## Choc (Mar 18, 2002)

people who are interested should meet tomorrow afternoon/eve in the prince albert (or somewhere else) to plan on some action (and surely a riot is out of question, sorry wl). it seems a little impossible to plan anything via the internet.


what do others think?


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## editor (Mar 18, 2002)

There seems to be a growing head of steam for a demo this Thursday..

I'll keep you posted.


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 18, 2002)

I've cleared my diary. Count me in.


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## han (Mar 18, 2002)

Wireman:


> But, please, no violence



you're preaching to the converted, mate...


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## newbie (Mar 18, 2002)

I'm up for it.

I mailed various people in a rush this morning including R4s PM, but didn't hear the prog.  Don't suppose they ran it?


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## VotePaddick (Mar 18, 2002)

*The Mission Starts Now*

I must admit to being new to Urban75 but having seen the news today I am disgusted that taxes can be so absurdly abused against democracy where a clearly popular, probably the most popular policeman in the country should be a victim of a witchhunt.

I would sign any petition.
Go on any demonstration.
Support any coordinated action.
Lobby my MP, lobby all MPs, lobby my councillor and for that matter virtually anyone who has a post inbox.


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## Lydia (Mar 18, 2002)

*The Rest of the World*

You Brixtonians are going to be very busy over the next couple of days. I really admire your spirit and support you to the hilt.

However, I am on the other side of Britain, so I can only offer remote support.  And I doubt that I am alone - there must be many, many people across the world who feel strongly that something really hopeful is about to be extinguished if BP does not get back to Brixton.

So, don't forget to exploit the mass support from afar.

Can we start an email petition - I would, but I don't know how!

If the Met, Ken Livingstone, Lord Whatsisname et al are bombarded with letters emails and phone calls, it will add some serious force to your physcal demo.

It would also help, to publicise the demo and postal campign on other message boards eg BBC R4 etc etc.

Can I do any thing to help???


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## hatboy (Mar 18, 2002)

Do all you've suggested Lydia.

This will be better if we join forces with Brixton people who don't use Urban75.   We don't need to picket anywhere tomorrow.  We should try and organise something reasonably substantial in the next few weeks.


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## chillin (Mar 18, 2002)

I am a Brixton resident, Black, 30 odd years old, been the victim of almost deadly violence and work in the borough. Getting rid of Commander Paddick is a backward step. He has the confidence of a great deal of the local Black community, something unheard of not to long ago. This action reeks of homophobia, prejudice and a political witch hunt. Demo for the Commander? Count me in.


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## hatboy (Mar 19, 2002)

Welcome to the U75 boards!

Keep half an eye on here and I think something will shape up in the next week or so. I'm hoping to speak to Lee Jasper tomorrow  for a start.


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## William of Walworth (Mar 19, 2002)

*Did you say Thursday?*

Hope to be there if it's after 5 pm.


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## cyberpixie (Mar 19, 2002)

Yeah, count me & Zee in but please make it late afternoon/after 5 so those of us who are working can get there too.


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## han (Mar 19, 2002)

Me and Blue_Nun will be there too!


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## grubby local (Mar 19, 2002)

*reinistate paddick campaign*

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/html/news/top_direct_london.html

gx


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## editor (Mar 19, 2002)

There's some pretty good debate on their boards too!


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## drfranni (Mar 19, 2002)

Eeek - already there are two days!!

I do appreciate that a great deal of ringing round and co-ordinating is being attempted by better people than me - however PLEASE can someone post a day and time when one has been agreed.

Also - Mr Editor - should we bring a U75 banner if I can knock one up in time?


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## pixiebrown (Mar 19, 2002)

Agree with above comments re: need to decide time and place.
If definite demo is organised for circa 6 (i.e. after work) at a specified time then I'll let know/bring along as many people as I can...
P.S. Hope Brian is still reading these boards and gains some comfort from the knowledge that he has massive support from the people who actually live in Brixton


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## catbabe (Mar 19, 2002)

*Giving my support*

This is my first post (feel unbelievably strongly about this tho) and just want to say that I absolutely support any (peaceful) demonstration in support of Brian Paddick.  What has happened is an utter disgrace, and it's time to get up and say "no".  Please please post details of whatever and whenever here, and I promise I'll be there.
p.s. as above - I'm a Lambeth resident, and hope too that Brian's still checking these boards out.  There's a lot of people behind you.


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## han (Mar 19, 2002)

indeed!


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## Mikee (Mar 19, 2002)

*Poster campaign and more.*

Keep your eyes open for upcoming poster campaign. big style. 

Interesting that Prince Charles can allow getting high at Highgrove 
with impunity, and that it takes Lord Harris 66hrs and a threatening 
phone call from the Mirror stating their intent to publish the story of 
his son getting caught in The Fridge with 66 ectsacy tablets, before 
he gracefully admits defeat and drags sonny boy down the yard!!!
Odd though, that the officers in charge of the case decided
 that there wasn't enough evidence to proceed. What does it take for 
someone who wants to do some good for the people of this city/ country
to be allowed to do so?  

Big shout going out to Jack Straws son, the late Princess Margaret and 
any other unlikely jailbait.......

Also what about organising a benefit party for the Commander's ex - 
so he can afford the lawyers to get him out of upcoming libel case. Or perhaps
a plane ticket for him to go somewhere else to stitch up the people of the country
he lives in! Not that he needs it, I guess, after what the mail must have shelled 
out to get him to give up that story....... 

Anyways more power to ya Brian, and to everyone up for standing up and 
making their feelings known.

Cannabis festival should be a laugh though......


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## Aitch (Mar 19, 2002)

Well said Mikee and all of above  

(ps Mikee pls check your pm's or are you ignoring me


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## William of Walworth (Mar 19, 2002)

*Pleading ...*

Specific date and time for protest please!!!! [crosses fingers]


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## Mikee (Mar 19, 2002)

*MEETING*

Since I haven't seen any other proposals ( mebbe not looking hard enough!) - what about meeting at the Duke Of Edinburgh - Monday evening 7:30. Lets make sure this gets done right. Anyone with any other proposals etc. weishing to keep people informed ( I have a large Brixton Mailing list) or with demos etc already planned please get in touch on savebrian@skinup.co.uk 

Posters going up tonight n  other moves are already afoot.........

Power to the Paddick....


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## grubby local (Mar 19, 2002)

*hold your horses?*

I understand that the community-police consultative group have called an extraordinary meeting for next Tuesday night at town hall to discuss reinstatement campaign. thats the most concrete i've heard. they make the most sense to me to lead any kind of campaign from the grassroots. more info soon (hatboy i think lee will call u)
gx

nb i'm on LBC at 5.50pm


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## Streathamite (Mar 19, 2002)

*Lee Jasper & Keep Padick campaign*

| will enthusiastically support any campaign to reinstate Paddick.Can someone (Pref. Hatboy) please PM me with details of petition/demo as soon as concrete details are known?


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## VotePaddick (Mar 19, 2002)

*Draft letter*

I posted this in another forum, although I think it may be more appropriate here: comments please.

This is my first draft - should we agree a standard between ourselves before blitzing the Met's in-box. Posties please dont go on strike. 

For presentation purposes can anyone suggest a way of downloading the word doc easily? 

Sir John Stevens 
Commissioner for the Metropolitan Police 
Chief Commissioner 
New Scotland Yard 
Broadway 
London 
SW1H OBG 

Dear Sir, 

I am writing to you both as a resident of London and as a concerned citizen about the recent remarks both in the press, and from the Police Federation, concerning Commander Paddick. Which you have sought to endorse on 18th March 2002. 
As you must be aware he is an officer of exemplary record who has not only had to tackle crime in one of London's most troublesome boroughs but has the presence of foresight to tackle the social issues which every Londoner, irrespective of status, has come to know so well. 
Commander Paddick has gained both the trust and respect of the residents of Lambeth. It is clear that the residents of Lambeth appreciate his ability. 
I feel Lambeth is in danger of becoming more lawless due to the lack of policing by consent, so painstakingly built up by Commander Paddick. 
Lambeth has always had people of diverse lifestyles and should I infer from your recent actions concerning Commander Paddick's removal from Lambeth that that it is not acceptable to be a member of the Police force unless one is homophobic? 
This is not an issue simply about tolerance of drugs and alternative lifestyles by the authorities but an essential debate, common to all walks of life, concerning the fabric of society. 

Should the London Metropolitan Police wish to enter this debate then I look forward to your comments, however should this not be case I will take my concerns to a higher authority. 

Yours sincerely,


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## Ganja Day (Mar 19, 2002)

*Paddick Demo on Thu 21st March*

Quote from attached press release:

"Commissioner Stevens, who ‘sacked’ Commander Paddick will meet the Metropolitan Police Authority this Thursday 21st March 10am at Romney House, 43 Marsham Street, SW1, there will be a public demonstration." 
================

LAMBETH Green Party

020 8671 5936
lambethgreens@gn.apc.org


For immediate release 18 March 2002

LAMBETH GREENS CONDEMN PADDICK’S TRIAL-BY-MEDIA

Lambeth Green Party condemns the effective dismissal of Lambeth Police Commander Brian Paddick. Although the public line from the Metropolitan Police is that Paddick has been re-assigned pending investigation, Greens doubt he will return – much to the detriment of policing in Lambeth.

Shane Collins, Green Party Drugs Spokesperson and local election candidate in Brixton, said: “Paddick represents the wishes of the majority of people in Lambeth, the Mail on Sunday does not. Our question is ‘Who polices Lambeth?’ The Mail on Sunday or community consent? Paddick should be re-instated and the tabloid press should keep their cheque book out of politics. This is a disaster for community policing in Lambeth.”


Mohammed Sajid, Green Party Prospective Council Candidate for Coldharbour Ward, said: “We live in an era where the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police is resisting the introduction of mandatory drug testing for officers on the basis that they will lose valuable manpower for good. The Daily Mail & Mail on Sunday have ensured that the Lambeth community have lost a very valuable officer, without the aid of a urine test. In reality, it is the Mail and its ilk who have been taking the piss all along.”

Commissioner Stevens, who ‘sacked’ Commander Paddick will meet the Metropolitan Police Authority this Thursday 21st March 10am at Romney House, 43 Marsham Street, SW1, there will be a public demonstration.

There will be a public meeting at Lambeth Town Hall 6pm Tuesday 26th to demand the re-instatement of Cmdr Paddick called by the Community Police Consultative Group for Lambeth.

Contact us for further information on the upcoming Lambeth community groups demonstration in support of Commander Paddick and the Lambeth Cannabis trial

ENDS 

For more info contact Shane Collins or Mohammed Sajid, Lambeth Green Party  w 020 7737 3044   h 020 8671 5936

Notes to editor.

The legalise Cannabis March and Festival is confirmed for Saturday 4th May. Kennington Park to Brockwell Park, Brixton.


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## hatboy (Mar 19, 2002)

*If you can't come - write please*

May I suggest that anyone who wants to do something to help but that is unable to attend local demos, etc should email or write letters. Perhaps to the Met Police,  Lambeth Town Hall,  The Lambeth Community Police Consultative Group (in support), the Metropolitan Police Association and of course any media you feel appropriate. People could also write to members of the government.

Use your imagination and just say what you feel.  Or, there are also a couple of standard letters people have posted up in the various Paddick related threads. 

If I have any of the organization's names above wrong or have said something incorrect please PM me


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## newbie (Mar 19, 2002)

I've had responses from mail to

membersservices@mpa.gov.uk

saying my mail has been copied to all members
and

commissioner@met.police.uk


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## detective-boy (Mar 20, 2002)

*Lee Jasper contact details*

You guys have probably worked it out by now, but to contact Lee Jasper:

Write:  Greater London Authority, Romney House, Marsham Street, London, SW1P 3PY

Phone:  020 7983 4000 (switchboard)

e-mail:  lee.jasper@london.gov.uk

GLA website:  www.london.gov.uk  (includes contact links for Mayor, etc.)


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## just_me (Mar 20, 2002)

*link*

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/html/...ect_london.html 

Regarding this link posted by grubby local-this site actually belongs to ANM which also owns The Mail.

They own another site-http://www.femail.co.uk which is the site directly associated with The Mail.

There has been a few complaints regarding the mail's gutter press report on Paddick on the Femail site.

My own opinion of Paddick is that he is a forward thinking guy and if more of our police force and politicians were like him we would be a far better country.

I dont live near London but will be e mailing all the contacts given here in support of Paddick.

Cheers

JM


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## fela fan (Mar 20, 2002)

I've emailed the commissioner.

I'm a tad too far away to lend my physical support, but do please keep all those who can't make any gatherings up to date on how these demos go.

Let's hope that just for once common sense will prevail amongst those who have the real power. They WILL listen, but only if they're being deafened. Londoners - please make a cacophony of sound and blast their ears.

If we do manage to have Brian reinstated (or even if we don't), I would suggest a follow up thread/campaign on how to reduce the powers of the likes of the Mail.  (I can't seem to work out how to start a thread.)


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## wildwildlifer (Mar 20, 2002)

and what a pathetic site it is too, 'Just me'. Its easy to see why trolls such as Daily Mail Reader & Galloping Major are so drawn to this magnificent site!
I, myself have bought some old-fashioned notepaper and in in a spidery, childish hand with the requisite number of spelling mistakes have written to these titles complaining that "my" money  has been spent on a drug-taking wretch (sic) such as James Renolleau and how these filthy allegations have been spread across the pages of a so-called 'family' newspaper !  Don't they care about the children!
That Commander Paddick seems such a nice man. We're short of police officers and very short of top-quality police officers and we Lambeth residents want our Commander back.
please no flames; written with a heavy slice of irony.
( the black arts club) 
BTW the Wright Stuff was complaining yesterday that they couldn't find anyone  speak against Paddick and how come all the papers were against him when it didn't seem to be shared by the average man/woman in the street! They recognize my voice by now so do feel free to call these chat shows up claiming to be in favour of disciplining Paddick. By the time they've sussed that you're pro Paddick its too late to get you off the air. It helps a lot if its done with politeness, even tho its an outrage.
good luck with the campaign


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## William of Walworth (Mar 20, 2002)

*Smart move!*



> have written to these titles complaining that "my" money has been spent on a drug-taking wretch (sic) such as James Renolleau and how these filthy allegations have been spread across the pages of a so-called 'family' newspaper ! Don't they care about the children!



LOL!!!   Excellent .....


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## Steve (Mar 20, 2002)

*"Fall in Street Crime Boosts Paddick"*

This is London article today.

Things seem to be moving in Brians favour

http://www.thisislondon.com/html/news/top_direct_london.html


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## editor (Mar 20, 2002)

Here's the jist of the above article:

"...But his supporters will seize on revelations that there were 159 class A drug arrests in Lambeth last month compared with 96 for both cannabis and class A drugs in the similar period last year. 

Street crime has been cut by 35 per cent and burglaries by eight per cent. Crucially, the findings refute critics' claims that the new policy has attracted even more drug dealing and use in the borough. 

Arrests for class A drugs rose from 90 last December to 107 in January and 159 last month. Street robberies, which were running at more than 30 a day in Lambeth in the aftermath of the 11 September bombings, when many officers were redeployed to central London, have been cut to 17 a day. The corresponding figure for last year is 23 a day. 

Burglaries, many of which are drugrelated, have been cut to 363 last month from 397 in February last year. Since the introduction of the no-arrest cannabis policy last summer, burglaries have dropped by 26 per cent and street crime - a major problem in Lambeth - has fallen six per cent. 

Sources say up to 2,500 police manhours have been saved by removing the bureaucratic requirements on officers making arrests for cannabis. 

While no one disputes that the officer faces serious allegations, there are mounting calls on Commissioner Sir John Stevens to stand by his Commander. The officer's belief that he is the subject of a homophobic witch-hunt in the media and within the Met itself is shared by many. 

The Dean of Lambeth, Canon Richard Truss, has expressed support for Mr Paddick and a demonstration is being called at Lambeth Town Hall next Tuesday to demand his reinstatement. 

Scotland Yard's evaluation of the Brixton experiment is expected by Easter and will assist the Home Secretary in deciding whether to downgrade cannabis to a class C drug"


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## wildwildlifer (Mar 20, 2002)

Thanks W of W 
If it were possible to get a toot outside Brixton Nick if you support the Reinstate Paddick Campaign, it would be a very helpful focal point for the worldwide TV crews that will be visiting Brixton over the next crucial few weeks.
preferably supported with a leaflet explaining why.
I think we're winning!


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## Complex (Mar 20, 2002)

*BBC Question Time*

The BBC question time programme has a poll to try to find out what the viewers think is "the issue of the week".  This will (probably) form the basis for the main discussion of the programme.  This week, one of the options to vote for is Brian Paddick and the cannabis allegations.  This might well be an excellent opportunity to   hold a public discussion on the issues (both Paddicks treatment, and the legalisation of cannabis), so if enough people get over to the BBC Question Time website there is a chance that there will be a proper debate.

Alternatively, it could all go tits up, since I dont know who is on the panel...

Complex.


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## hatboy (Mar 20, 2002)

Worth having on board on this issue, twat or not tho.


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## wildwildlifer (Mar 20, 2002)

I understand from the Beeb that there is a very good chance that a debate will be held in Lambeth tomorrow evening., so if I could urge readers to follow 'Complex'' suggestion, it would be helpful.
Best bib'ntucker and behaviour for me if it comes about and try to unfulfill the stereotype of wild Brixton looney!


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## catbabe (Mar 20, 2002)

*losing it...*

Argggh... Gibralter is MILES ahead.  lots more voting needs to be going on.


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## VotePaddick (Mar 20, 2002)

*we need a song to sing when the cameras are on*

Anyone think up a good chant ?


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## EatMoreChips (Mar 20, 2002)

*Lambeth Demo*

Where exactly will it be and what time? Sorry if someone's already said, I can't go back and read EVERYTHING...


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## Mikee (Mar 21, 2002)

*Reminder*

THURSDAY 10AM ROMNEY HOUSE , MARSH ST, SW1

THE FIRST PUBLIC DEMO, ITS IMPORTANT THAT WE GET SOME BODS THERE. I HAVE SPOKEN TO THE EVENING STANDARD TODAY AND THEY WILL BE COVERING IT -  LETS BE PRESENT


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## wildwildlifer (Mar 21, 2002)

mikee, there is no Marsh st sw1 in my A-Z
do you mean MARSHAM ST????


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## drfranni (Mar 21, 2002)

Have a good time this morning - us wage slaves will be putting in our time in the pensionmines.

Did anyone else hear the interview on Radio 4 this morning - Lee Jasper and some senior police chap from ?wales. I thought that Lee Jaspar was being the Krazee London Radical until the policeman suddenly said "Well, basically we have to legalize cannabis" Tee hee. I would hate this whole issue to become obsessed with cannabis because I think that the reason we need Paddick is that he was achieving "consensus" policing and getting the results but it does just go to show......


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## Angelvamp (Mar 21, 2002)

*Supoorting Brian Paddick*

Yeah keep us informed of any action. No time to write anything else

Angelvamp2@hotmail.com


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## Streathamite (Mar 21, 2002)

There's one thing I'm surprised no-one has mentioned - Lobbying the local MP. 
This is especially apposite given that a) every MP in a faltering Governing party is - with good reason - shit scared of the voters and b) two of Lambeth's MPs are Kate Hoey (ex-Minister of Sport and Keith Hill (currently, I believe, a middle-ranking member of the Govt.). 
Could Hatboy, Mike (Editor) or any Brixton residents please PM me with the name of your local (dis)Honourable Member? I will draw up a draft letter for peeps to copy


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## newbie (Mar 21, 2002)

I suggested MPs a while back, but having tried mailing .Keith Hill (who's deputy chief whip) in the past I don't hold out much hope.  He'll be on-message, so it's probably easier to ask Tony what Keith thinks.

He also replies to emails with very expensive snailmail about a month later, which irritates


edited to repair the link


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## drfranni (Mar 21, 2002)

Mine is Tessa Jowell who doesn't have an email according to the HoP website


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## pixiebrown (Mar 21, 2002)

*Getting good coverage...*

Seems like the Standard is giving the campaign a lot of press-space...
http://www.thisislondon.com/html/news/top_direct_london.html


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## Streathamite (Mar 21, 2002)

Brixton MPs:
The southern 2/3rds of Brixton are represented by Keith Hill.
The southern 1/3rd, Kate Hoey. (Sorry, I'm too much of a technodonkey to do URLs).
I believe the dividing line is (very) roughly near the Academy, or shortly North of that.


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## Streathamite (Mar 21, 2002)

Correcting my previous posting (I've always thought retrospective editing is discourteous) - the dividing line between the two is around about the Town Hall.


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## William of Walworth (Mar 21, 2002)

Mine's Harriet Harman ...


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## JoeOrder (Mar 21, 2002)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_1885000/1885271.stm

Looks like the Lambeth Cannabis pilot is set to continue, according to the BBC.

I guess it's important now to focus on other aspects of the situation, rather than just the cannabis issue - as I fear that if it becomes a single-issue campaign, the rags will just dismiss us as a bunch of pot-heads trying to defend our 'free reign'.

Although I do not live in Brixton (more by accident than design), my friends who do live there (and I) have felt a hell of a lot safer walking around the place in recent times.  It's kind of ironic that the Mail and it's stablemates are busy trumpeting that it isn't safe to walk the streets anymore, while simultaneously vilifying the man who has been able to reverse the trend in Lambeth.

(If I were wearing my conspiracy-theorist hat though, I'd probably mention the fact that the Tories have recently gained points in opinion polls due to escalating crime figures (according to The Grauniad), and anyone who is reversing the situation on crime has the potential to hurt their position)

PS - Although I don't live in Brixton, I do belong to a group that's putting on Trance nights there monthly, and the place has always had an appeal for me ever since going to the Academy to watch the Levellers and their ilk in the early 90s


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## newbie (Mar 21, 2002)

the Guardian site Ask Aristotle has lots of info about all MPs, including voting records.

emails addresses are

jowellt@parliament.uk
hillk
hoeyk

and so on.


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## Jazzz (Mar 21, 2002)

lol @ wildwildlifer!  

So ch5 couldn't find anyone to speak against Paddick...

I noticed on the BBC1 regional news they managed to find one idiotic anti-drugs campainer to interview over the recent pilot experiment results.

He was the only one produced for interview, and I think the anchor was barely concealing her contempt.

I am starting to discover that the media elements which I thought the most unbiased are in fact nothing of the sort. And at least the Mail, Sun etc. make no pretence of balance.


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## editor (Mar 21, 2002)

That idiot on BBC London was almost comical in his ineptitude. 

When asked what alternatives he could suggest to the cannabis experiment, he avoided the question completely and started dabbling on about Quebec instead! 

Who the fuck is he anyway - and why is he on? He doesn't seem to represent anyone in Brixton.


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## viperman (Mar 21, 2002)

*Good to see the end of Paddick*

 I should say that it has amazed me the amount of support that Paddick has gotten from the Brixton community but it does not.  Paddick has been a total disgace to the police force and every member that has served under him.  As an ex policeman, I found his ideas on anarchy and drug related issues quite disgusting.  We have seen what the anarchists do when they protest and it is always the poor policeman on the front line that has to take the abuse from the scum that are protesting, and where do you find the nearest Superintendent, certainly not in the frontline.  And as for his drugs policy, well, having had to walk through Brixton for 2 years to get to the underground station, all I can say is that the area is just a disgrace with every type of criminal just hanging around.  Drug users, no matter which type they use should be lifted and hauled before the courts before the end of the day.  Paddick has used his sexuality to get where he is thinking that he would not be hauled up for fear of being homophobic.  His bluff has been called and I hope he gets sent somewhere far far away so he can do no more damage


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## editor (Mar 21, 2002)

> I found his ideas on anarchy ..quite disgusting


Good job you're an ex-cop as it's clear you're unable to comprehend and follow the words of your superior officers.

Paddick has never referred to 'anarchy' on these boards - that was the work of the sensationalistic, inaccurate tabloid rag that you clearly buy.

And you're not really an ex-cop anyway, are you?


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## Cautious Fred (Mar 21, 2002)

Tsk!

There's always one bad apple...


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## viperman (Mar 21, 2002)

*sorry to tell you that you are wrong*

Spent 12 years in the greatest police force in the world as we were frequently told by other worldwide police forces.  Not based on the mainland but another part of Great Britain.   I will leave it up to you to guess which one.


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## editor (Mar 21, 2002)

Ah, so actually you know very little about Brixton's history and its community then?

And why you're moaning about the junkies by the station is anyone's guess as it's Paddick's drug policies that are the first that seem to having any noticeable effect on the  problem.

So instead of just blindly slagging him off, perhaps you should listen to what the community is saying and ask yourself why he's earned so much support in an area traditionally blighted with some of the worst police relations in the UK.

But then again, old-school police are rarely any good at listening to the community they're supposed to be serving, are they?


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## Wireman (Mar 22, 2002)

You are a right charmer, viperman. And if you are referring to the disgraced RUC then it's no real surprise. Your antediluvian views would have fitted in quite well there.

Isn't that why they've been re-organised?

That's if you were a policeman at all, of course.


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## viperman (Mar 22, 2002)

*why......*

would i lie.  If there was someway i could prove it i would


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## JoeOrder (Mar 22, 2002)

*OK...*

viperman: I'm presuming you were in the RUC, if the description holds true.  Either that or you were on the Isle of Wight or something....  If that's the case (RUC) then you were dealing with the worst kind of scumbag when it comes to the drug trade, and it's a good thing you came out relatively unscathed.  It's depressing as hell that it seems the only reason for the continued sectarian violence is now a turf war over hard drugs.  Chatting to my mates from even a place like Richill gives me nightmares sometimes.

If you think you know the situation in Brixton though, it's a very different kettle of fish (and I don't even live there).  Yes the junkies around the station are intimidating sometimes (as are some up CHL - I've had very dodgy times up there, so I know whereof I speak), but the vast majority of people there are great.  It does no-one any favours to arrest and charge these people over possession.  It creates paperwork and ties up officers who would be doing a much better job chasing *real* scumbags and getting them off the streets, like the kind of people who'd subject a guy to nine hours of torture for a couple of thou.

Just for reference, former cannabis dealer I know over here, very kind guy, wouldn't hurt a fly.  Former Cannabis dealer I knew in the US, ditto.  Former Cannabis go-between from Ulster - exactly the same.

These are not the kind of people who deserve to be arrested and/or locked up as a danger to society, because they're not.   The only reason we had the prohibition laws in this country was because there was a war coming, and later because we felt the need to placate the Christian Right in the US.  Neither reason is relevant today, and the fact that we keep it prohibited smacks of the kind of absurdity we wouldn't normally see outside Monty Python.

Quantitatively, the numbers speak for themselves as far as how successful Cmdr. Paddick's policies are as Commander.  Qualitatively, I think the voices on this board, and frankly across this country, practically shout for themselves as far as how much safer the people in this borough feel as a result of his policing methods. The fact that Brixton is prepared to protest *in favour* of a police officer tells you all you need to know.

------------------Unnecessary philosophical waffle------------

George Orwell described a boot, stamping on a human face, forever.  It seems that these days several things can be drawn from that image.  Now, as ever, there will be people who represent the face.  They may not like it, but they live their lives under it.   There are those who try to prevent the situation altogether - many of whom frequent these boards.  However, there are some who wish to be the boot.  We know them, the bullies from school.  The ones who told us we'd never amount to anything.  The ones who hunt for the tiniest flaw in our work.  They may be in any job, anywhere.  I expect some wound up in the Police Service.  They are the ones who enjoy wielding power for it's own sake, stopping & searching people because it makes them feel better.  Pulling in a teenager with an eighth on him, because it makes up the numbers - regardless of whether the record could spoil his life.  It'd be a travesty if those minds could run policing in Lambeth again.


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## theoderic (Mar 22, 2002)

> _Originally posted by drfranni _
> *I would hate this whole issue to become obsessed with cannabis because I think that the reason we need Paddick is that he was achieving "consensus" policing and getting the results  ...*



Essential point. I like a spliff as much as anybody, but it's not the "real" issue here.

To the guy at Marsham St. whose offer of a banner I refused, a confession: it wasn't because I had to go, it was because I didn't want to hold a banner with the name of a party or organisation on it.

Even if it was the party I voted for (I usually don't vote, but felt in this case it would be a symbolic boot up Keith Hill's arse).

Sorry for the digression.

I still think that what street resources we have would have been better employed in Brixton and Streatham, and sooner. If there's not a pro-Paddick presence visible on the street this weekend, I think we'll have lost the opportunity - not for confrontation, or even obstruction, but to gauge whether the events of the last few months have at all shifted the police-gangs-people power balance, and to consolidate any gains rather than risk losing them.

By all means lobby, but I doubt its efficacy, and I'm not sure I'll take part. I don't have patience for the great, the good and the gobby.

And anyway I don't willingly go anywhere I can't smoke.


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## William of Walworth (Mar 22, 2002)

Nice post from Joe Order ... welcome


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## JoeOrder (Mar 22, 2002)

*Thanks WoW....*

It just goes to show that alcohol is the nastiest, most insidious drug on the planet when it comes to making me ramble


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## Streathamite (Mar 22, 2002)

> Paddick has been a total disgace to the police force and every member that has served under him


...presumably, you mean its' disgraceful that a police chief can report "hard drugs arrests up, reported street crime down": or is the real disgrace that he is the first man i/c Brixton police to actually enjoy a god relationship with the community?


> Not based on the mainland but another part of Great Britain. I will leave it up to you to guess which one.


Ahh - that would be the RUC. A force so nasty, brutal, corrupt and bigoted that  it had to be disbanded and refounded. You're really speaking from a moral high ground aren't you?


> the scum that are protesting,


So Anybody exercising their democratic, legal right to protest is "scum". Who_do_ you vote for, now that Hitler's dead?


> Drug users, no matter which type they use should be lifted and hauled before the courts before the end of the day.


I don't know which I'm more grateful for - that you only ebver madse constable, that Padick's in charge and not you, or that yopu've now left the force. It was precisely this idiotic approach
that created the disaster of drugs policy that Brian P - to his eternal credit - is the first man to tackle head on. 
If the highly-paid white collar professional currently typing this post (=me)chooses to relax with a spliff at the end of a hard day's work, who or what is damaged? What harm is done? So why criminalise millions of people who lead "legal" lives in every other respect?


> His bluff has been called and I hope he gets sent somewhere far far away so he can do no more damage


The report on his cannabis policy-change has hailed it as a roaring success. Under his leadership, community relations have massively improved. What damage?
Just out of idle curiosity, are you trolling, or is your brain permanently hotwired to your arse?


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## Nemo (Mar 22, 2002)

> _"Drug users, no matter which type they use should be lifted and hauled before the courts before the end of the day."_



Right, tell me the next time you take Aspirin and I'll come round and make a citizen's arrest.

*PEACE TO ALL!*


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## VotePaddick (Mar 23, 2002)

*sene and sensilbility*

My mind is made up. Commander Paddick must not be made the tool of any political group.  For the action which has been expressed on these pages to be fruitful it must be apolitical!

This is important.

If we want Cmdr Paddick back in his position then he must be peacefully re-recruited.

Readers may find this amusing, but pray for him. It will make the case more concrete in your own heads and the outside world

Love,Bobbyboy


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## theoderic (Mar 23, 2002)

*sene and sensilbility*



> _Originally posted by VotePaddick _
> *My mind is made up. Commander Paddick must not be made the tool of any political group.  For the action which has been expressed on these pages to be fruitful it must be apolitical!
> *



I go with the sentiment, if not the terminology.

No party banners, please. Preferably no organisational indicators at all.

That doesn't make it "apolitical", though: it's just part of reclaiming politics from the "politicians".

Hope that's not too 1968.


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 23, 2002)

Viperman is Colin the Copper and I claim my £5. I claim an extra £5 for revealing that he has a miniscule member and still a further £5 for revealing that the only uniform he has worn is as a £3.75p an hour security guard in Kwiksave. YAY! I'm £15 quid up for 3 seconds reasoning!


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## white rabbit (Mar 23, 2002)

Spot on!

I never saw it before. Of course, Viperman - the snake! It's so Freudian.

Are we a little lacking in the trouser department, as well being somewhat cerebrally challenged, Mr V???


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 23, 2002)

Yes, us ladies have seen it all before, all mouth and no trousers! (I really wish that I could represent in the written word that little crooked finger that so well sums up what we ladies know about types like viperman and Colin the Copper.... you know what I mean, titchy prick, big ego and crap shag! I bet he has a compensatory car.)


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## white rabbit (Mar 23, 2002)

Any colour so long as it's RED.


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## detective-boy (Mar 23, 2002)

> _Originally posted by theoderic _
> *
> 
> If there's not a pro-Paddick presence visible on the street this weekend, I think we'll have lost the opportunity - not for confrontation, or even obstruction, but to gauge whether the events of the last few months have at all shifted the police-gangs-people power balance, and to consolidate any gains rather than risk losing them.
> ...




The concept of the shift in police - gangs - people power is a key point as you say.  On our own the police can make little effective and long term difference.  Without the powers the police have, the people struggle to make real changes.  And all the while the police and the people do not work together the gangs gain ...

The power and influence, and the ability to corrupt, that the massive wealth gives organised drug dealers is the really scary thing which should concern us all.


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## viperman (Mar 23, 2002)

*FAO Red Jezza  and Ms Magpie*

Firstly Red Jezza
you're remarks about the RUC are so typical Pro IRA, what does it feel like to support a terrorist organisation that murdered 10 innocent people on the shankill road, or an innocent child in Warrington, i could go on 2200 times but i shall not.  The people that thought all those things that you quoted were the terrorists and the criminals in Northern Ireland.  Patten renamed them as he was promised a top job in Europe by the Ira's spokesperson in Britain Tony Blair.
As for Ms Magpie. oh dear, old age and all the horrible diseases that come with it have crept up on you.  Wrong on all counts, I am not colin, average sized dick and I manage my own company.


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## white rabbit (Mar 23, 2002)

What about the compensatory car???


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## viperman (Mar 23, 2002)

*ok, sorry*

Saab here and Mitsubishi in the states, anything else you want to know


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 23, 2002)

Notice that vituperative viperman, he who speaks with forked tongue, hasn't denied having a huge ego and being a crap shag though!


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## white rabbit (Mar 23, 2002)

*And another thing...*

It's a bit cheap to accuse someone of supporting the IRA just because they criticise the RUC. But to then go into a rant about how unpleasant the Provos (or should that now be the Realos?) are is just being needlessly antagonistic. Follow that with the claim that TB is their spokesman and you're into orbit my friend.


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## hatboy (Mar 23, 2002)

Can you keep this thread on topic please. If you want to talk about Ireland please start another thread in another forum. Thankyou


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## theoderic (Mar 24, 2002)

> _Originally posted by detective-boy _
> *The power and influence, and the ability to corrupt, that the massive wealth gives organised drug dealers is the really scary thing which should concern us all. *



It sure as hell frightens me.

And what's a couple of hundred thou to these scumbags if they can use it to plant a few stories to neutralise a copper who's queering their pitch by telling it like it is?


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## pooka (Mar 24, 2002)

*Broadening the base*

Forgive me, a newbie - may have posted this already (in more discursive form). Main points are:

As someone who has lived in Brixton 14 years, but in no way networked into any of the political or community groupings, I shall nonetheless turn out on Tuesday to protest against the disgraceful hounding of a guy who stood some chance of achieving some good in the lives of people in this borough.

There must be plenty of other people like me - who don't read this bulleting board. How can their support be mobilised?

Leaflet supermarkets over the weekend?
Through apolitical community groupings - PTA's, Neighbourhood Watches, &tc?
Local press.


Seems to me the more manifest the broad community support the better - if the media can depict this protest as the "usual suspects", then its weakened. I'd argue that grannies pucshing prams in middle-England did more to see off the Poll Tax than scaffold pole hurlers in St Martins Lane.

Anyone has a viable plan and needs some effort - I'll pitch in.


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## hatboy (Mar 24, 2002)

The petitioning is getting a good response. What about contacting London Live and the SLP to publicise the Tuesday meeting.


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## pooka (Mar 24, 2002)

*SLP ?*

That a political party? 

I'd suggest anybody and everybody should be encouraged to turn up regardless of party politics or ideological loyalties- it's concern for our community that matters and I honestly don't think that's restricted to any particular party. In this matter, I'd stand beside anyone from unreconstructed Thatcherites to turbulent Trots.....but I wouldn't stand under their banner. I suspect that might be a common view -  "badging" with a parties colours is more likely to alienate support than attract it.

Pooka


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## pooka (Mar 24, 2002)

*But well done...*

Looking at above, seems a bit sanctimonious and proscriptive...


So to balance, I only discoverd this site through the publicity surrounding Brian Paddick and was much heartened to find a find a bunch of people trying to get some kind of community going, and organising around this issue in particular.

So, well done 

Pooka


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## theoderic (Mar 24, 2002)

*SLP ?*



> _Originally posted by pooka _
> *That a political party?
> 
> I'd suggest anybody and everybody should be encouraged to turn up regardless of party politics or ideological loyalties- it's concern for our community that matters and I honestly don't think that's restricted to any particular party. In this matter, I'd stand beside anyone from unreconstructed Thatcherites to turbulent Trots.....but I wouldn't stand under their banner. I suspect that might be a common view -  "badging" with a parties colours is more likely to alienate support than attract it.
> ...



I've already made this point about party "badging", pooka, and I think it's been taken.

However, you'll be relieved to hear that the SLP is the South London Press.

I hope.


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## pooka (Mar 24, 2002)

*REH      (Right enough, Hatboy)*


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## hatboy (Mar 24, 2002)

No one at Urban75 seems to know or like the South London Press. I don't really know it's editorial politics, but it seems OK in that way.   It is in fact my favourite paper. Local news, planning proposals, jumble sales,stabbings, etc.  All things you need to know about.


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## bbsnews (Mar 24, 2002)

*Campaign to Reinstate Paddick*

BBSNews has taken Page Two and devoted a large portion of it to the Commander Paddick issue. We are one of the very few news outlets in the US to cover this issue.

On Page Two one will find a downloadable version of the "Wanted" poster with a short description of how this homophobic ruse started.

There are also copies of the relevent studies and the MORI poll showing incredible support. An editorial from BBSNews with another just about ready to go to press supporting Paddick's Policies. And pointers to some of the best news coverage so far in the British press. 

There's a quote from your own Head Honcho and I've set up a news query for up to the minute news about Commander Paddick with a lot more in the works.

It's obvious that the Paddick Policies are long overdue and I wish folks here in the USA to learn from what is happening in the UK. It appears that drug policy is about to take a very dramatic and pragmatic twist for the better in your country. 

BBSNews is proud to offer it's support of the campaign to reinstate Brian Paddick. Should anyone like to contribute or point out things that I've left out, please do so.

I'll leave y'all to it and I'll get back to finishing the next editorial supporting Paddick's successes.


Michael Hess
Editor, BBSNews
http://bbsnews.net


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## sonicdancer (Mar 24, 2002)

Michael excellent !! good coverage and I hope evidence enough to start jokying your police force to start thinking about new and radical ideas !! I speak for myself but maybe others feel the same way: the sad and sorry saga of cheque-book journalism imploding  Brian's career (for now) after so much ground had been made up between police and community, has left me a bit depressed so any positivity to come out of this is well....just gives me token hope right now. Good man.


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## bbsnews (Mar 25, 2002)

*Monday BBSNews Editorial on Paddick Policies*

Hello all,

If you stop into BBSNews Page Two you will see I've made a few improvements on the available background material and I've added a new editorial for today.

Please see: http://bbsnews.net/page-two.phtml

If anyone has any thing to add or if you see anything I've gotten wrong, please let me know.


Michael Hess
Editor, BBSNews
http://bbsnews.net


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 25, 2002)

My only complaint is that it all takes ages to load on an ancient computer such as mine. Mike has spoiled me with really concise and elegant pages that load fast. Good content though, I'm just a moaning old Magpie.


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## hatboy (Mar 25, 2002)

Well done BBS


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## Voley (Mar 26, 2002)

Just seen you on TV, hatboy.

Very succinct and to the point. Nice one, mate.


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## William of Walworth (Mar 26, 2002)

*Arse, I CANNOT be disciplined ...*

I'm missing this!

Despite my best intentions 

[Goes]


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## drfranni (Mar 26, 2002)

Excellent meeting - I really enjoyed it - interesting - I hope the meejah coverage is suitably upbeat

Highlights:
Hatboy dealing cogently and sensitively with the issues including a very distressed mother whose son died in custody - his point being that it was appropriate that there were dissenting voices, but that if anyone could give this woman the answers she deserved, it was BP

The Rabbi being introduced as speaking from "The South London Liberal Mosque" - now that's what I call "inter-faith"

Littlejohn being described as obscene and people whooping and cheering

The african woman who said "the racial divide" and then corrected herself to "The racial mix"

This website being called "Urban 57" - I like that - all varieties

U75 being acknowledged as the start of the campaign

The leader of the black police officers telling us that BP inspired him and stating unambiguosly that the smear campaign is being fueled from new Scotland Yard

The people who explained that the officers responsible (allegedly) for the deaths in custody are still in post, whilst BP....

The members of the Gay and Lesbian police group standing up and being cheered - this made me a bit tearful

Hundreds of people cheering the concept that Brixton is special and precious and fragile

Brian Paddick appearing on stage to an immediate standing ovationBBC coverage


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## newbie (Mar 26, 2002)

Maybe.  

Call me old fashioned, but I think it's rather rude to bellow 'shutup' at a woman whose son has been killed.  Her protest that the applause for Paddick was 'offensive' was shouted down.  Not by you drf, I'm sure,  probably no-one here, but it left a bad taste.

There seemed little room for reality checks in amongst the clapping, cheering and hero worship.  

I was in California the day Clinton first got elected.  People were very literally dancing in the streets and talking about the promised land.  I felt very much the cynic as I said Brits would never be so naive.  Looks like I was wrong.


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## drfranni (Mar 26, 2002)

Hmm - well, yes and no. She was distressed and not entirely coherent. I think that it is possible that she was being "used" by other people. I am extremely sorry for her loss, but where is it written that the bereaved are excused from good manners? There were many people there with stories to tell - why did she have to disrupt the meeting? It didn't help her case, didn't help her story to be told? The people who shouted "shut up" did so because they couldn't understand what she was saying or why


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## Mr Day (Mar 26, 2002)

Excellent - Brian Paddick gets cheered and Britney Spears gets booed all in one day

I'm a very happy man

Nigel D


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## EatMoreChips (Mar 26, 2002)

Having managed to turn up half an hour late (work) and in the wrong place (missed the Lambeth Assembly Halls bit), what happened? Ended up playing pool in the Albert. What's the next  event that I shall inevitably get wrong?


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## oicur0t (Mar 26, 2002)

It was an entertaining evening. I thought the arrival of Brian seemed all too contrived. But I am sure that he's in the world of politics now, this is a campaign and he will need to act like it is to get anywhere.

It was also rather pleasing to see people coming together, something that seems too rare in this day and age, especially to back a policeman, a gay policeman. Maybe the world is changing...if only very slowly.


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## newbie (Mar 26, 2002)

*Who isn't being used?*

Never having been in a pro-police rally before perhaps I shouldn't be shocked that protesters are shouted down.  I have been in Brixton crowds before though, and would never have thought one would tell her that their Messiah was more important than her son.

She could have made her protest more effectively, of course, though I think she was taken by surprise by the ovation when BP arrived. Should she have kept quiet? How should a dissident black woman behave when a (predominantly) white liberal crowd goes into hero mode?  Presumably with all due deference whilst taking care not to disrupt.


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## marko (Mar 26, 2002)

Can't improve on drfranni's excellent summary.

Just saw it on the news as well - felt it was a pity they didn't include the rabbi, who came across as particularly thoughtful to me (had to laugh at L.J.'s 'mosque' gaffe though).

On the other hand, they *did* include hatboy - quite a coup given that there were 8 or 9 speakers on the panel, plus the same number again from the audience, to choose from. He was shown as an example of the "anti-establishment figures" supporting Brian - how did they figure he's anti-establishment then, was it the hat?

Newbie-



> There seemed little room for reality checks in amongst the clapping, cheering and hero worship



But this was clearly the wrong place for a critical view of Paddick. It was a show of support, not a debate. The objective was to have him reinstated, on the basis that his 'temporary move pending an investigation' was unfair. The majority view was that he had been doing a good job in Lambeth. Even if this turned out to be incorrect, his dismissal because of a smear campaign about his sexuality etc. would be no less unjust.


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## boomclick (Mar 27, 2002)

i had to leave after the speech from the 2nd gay policeman 'cos of a prior engagement.  were there comments and questions from the floor?

has anyone seen any tabloid coverage?

i thought it was a positive and upbeat meeting.  let's hope it helps


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 27, 2002)

I felt really sorry for Ricky Bishops Mum. She actually spoke at an inappropriate time before there were questions from the floor . She got shouted down when she she said something about being from the black community and something about not being into homosexuality and was shouted down because she was mistaken for a homophobe. I think she was cynically and horribly used by others with quite different agendas. The fact remains that Ricky Bishop died as a result of swallowing about 20 rocks of crack. Crack was what killed him. He was not murdered. I was asked later why I didn't challenge her. As a mother, I didn't want to piss on her grief.


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## newbie (Mar 27, 2002)

sheesh reggaeboy


This is a political campaign, not brainwashing.  I know we're all born again pro-police but I didn't realise the model was the Conservative Party conference.  [As an aside, LJ rather gave the game away- did anyone notice that during the first vote he declared the result unanimous before asking for abstentions?  He didn't ask for Noes at all.]   

If the mother of a man killed in police custody get shouted down in a Brixton meeting about policing, where can she expect a fair hearing ?


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 27, 2002)

> _Originally posted by newbie _
> *LJ rather gave the game away- did anyone notice that during the first vote he declared the result unanimous before asking for abstentions?  He didn't ask for Noes at all*


 In the ten years that I have known Lee Jasper I have learnt that Lee Jaspers main agenda has been Lee Jasper. I'm surprised he didn't do the Blair quote about 'the hand of history upon his shoulder'


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## hatboy (Mar 27, 2002)

Another day yeah!   I referred to Ricky Bishop's mum's dissenting voice. And said that she had more chance of getting the answers/justice she wants with Brian Paddick than without him.


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## grubby local (Mar 27, 2002)

I want to start a new thread but I wont. Look, tonight was history making. A cop given an standing ovation by 300 members of his community - in Brixton, of all places - is a moment of political change. Its as simple as that. Dissent and criticism are part and parcel (deaths in custody), but if anyone is going to take those issues on, from what I've heard, it's Brian Paddick. If anyone would have posited this scenario one month ago they would have been steelgated.

I'm gobsmacked. We are at the cusp of something major. It has personified itself tonight. We will win this. BP will be reinstated. Policing in this country will change. Media in this country will change. That is fucking incredible.
gx


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## editor (Mar 27, 2002)

I'm afraid I'm a little too 'tired and emotional' to knock out a full report, so I've used GL's eloquent  words and posted up a photo from the meeting here

Also check out: Police chief cheered by residents (Independent)  and Paddick greets Lambeth rally - BBC  (using my new poster too!)


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## dia1964 (Mar 27, 2002)

*wow!!*

WELL...... if what you say is true...... that is a VERY big thing INDEED... IT'S RARE THAT I BUY, LET ALONE READ NEWSPAPERS.... but i shall get a copy in the morning (or whenever i wake up),and see what is being said..... if the type of change is the type of change that i really want to see happen..... well that TRULY would be history.... a profound and major,shift in the 'system'... and a very desperately needed one..... i will reserve judgement for now.... i'm watching the space, y'all!!     could it be that humanitarianism is actually going to give birth to a major chain-reaction??  i can't quite believe this....... but like i said...  i'll wait and see..


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## editor (Mar 27, 2002)

From Ananova Paddick supporters demand reinstatement 

Police chief Brian Paddick has made a dramatic entrance at a meeting called by his supporters who want him to be reinstated in his old job.

He appeared at the meeting in Brixton organised by Lambeth Community Police Consultative Group.

He thanked the audience of 300 people, who gave him a standing ovation, and apologised for interrupting the meeting.

The 43-year-old head of Lambeth police has been moved to a desk job at Scotland Yard pending an investigation into allegations by his former gay lover that he smoked cannabis in their home.

The officer had already courted controversy by pioneering an approach to cannabis in which those caught with the drug were not prosecuted. He also revealed on a web site that he found the concept of anarchy appealing.

Commander Paddick said: "I just wanted to come along to thank all of you here and the literally hundreds of people who have written to me and emailed their support of me - from the grandmother in Scotland to the former Chief Constable of Devon and Cornwall.

"All I want to do is to come back and serve the people of Lambeth. I hope I'm going to be allowed to do that very soon but in the meantime thank you very much."

He then left and refused to answer further questions.

Group chairman Lee Jasper read out a statement from London Mayor Ken Livingstone which claimed Commander Paddick would have fared better if he was not gay.

The statement read: "There can be little doubt that Commander Paddick would not now be in the position he finds himself were it not for his sexuality. The campaign which has been orchestrated against him has been highly homophobic, intrusive and personal, and threatens to deter lesbian and gay officers in the force from coming out to their colleagues."

Also check out:  Paddick returns to Lambeth to standing ovation (BBC)


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## pooka (Mar 27, 2002)

*Thoughts on Town Hall Meeting*

I think many of the people who shouted down Ricky Bishop's mum didn't realise the background - the general rumpus meant that what she was saying wasn't clear to more than the people immediately around her. And yes Mrs Magpie she was being used, not only by the Unison guy, but also by a steely young woman carrying a reporter's notebook. Clearly, she was distraught. Hatboys response was thoughtful, measured and correct.

Seemed to me that the most useful contributions from the platform came from those who focussed on the issues - policing by consent, innovation and commitment, and the pernicious power of the gutter press. They came from the Rabbi, the Reverend (and his sweet reference to Johnny Mathis and Little Richard!) and the Green's Man. 

Again, Mrs Magpie I think you're right about Lee Jasper being about Lee Jasper - and his being his Master's Voice - was I the only person who felt he read KL's letter out rather in the manner that Parish Priests used to read out letters from the Bishop? (left-footer upbringing I'm afraid!) I think the contributions from the L&G Police Association and from the Black Police Association focussed as much on their own organisations as the issues in Lambeth - welcome solidarity, but not the core of the matter.

In fact, I'm not convinced that the campaign against BP is primarilly homophobic, but exploits homophobia for other ends. David Aaronovich put it well in the Indy last week.

"The Paddick affair is beginning to resemble a similar struggle [to the Dreyfus affair] for the British police force, with the commander representing collateral damage in the right's campaign against "liberal" policing and the Government................

In the first instance it [the Daily Mail's campaign] seeks to convince us that we all ought to live in constant fear – fear of crime, fear of moral collapse, fear of outsiders. Every resource is pressed into the service of this Kulturkampf.............

Enter Paddick, the most senior gay police officer, the man in charge of an area where the laws against possessing cannabis are not being pressed very harshly, and a bloke with a bit of a gob on him. And they hate him. They really do."


http://argument.independent.co.uk/regular_columnists/david_aaronovitch/story.jsp?story=275958

I did think that BP's appearance was a high risk strategy on his part -  it is sometimes not a good thing to force your opponents into a corner. I imagine that the last thing the powers that be will countenance is being seen to capitulate to a populist campaign -  they have capitulated already to a squalid newspaper, but maybe had little choice given that allegations of disciplinary offences were made.

Which lead me to wonder who is playing the long game here? Presumably PB could not have instituted his policy without the approval of his superiors? Might not the scenario be:

New Labour comes to power promising a war on drugs headed by a tough talking "Drugs Tsar". Prominant in it's strategy is the "gateway" status of cannabis and the avowal, by Jack Straw and the Tsar, never to countenance its legalisation. Part conviction, part abeyance to Middle England.

The war on drugs manifestly failing and the realisation that many in Middle England are well aware what their children and grand-children get up to and are not convinced that they have spawned criminals. Even the blue-rinses in the Tory Party were uneased by Doris's rantings, leading half the shadow cabinet to fess up to student tokes.

So, how's about setting up trial to ease off a bit, led by a gobby gay policeman in some suburb of Sodom and Gomerah, well away from Middle England. He can take the flak whilst the trial is underway - if it fails, he;s dispensible and if it suceeds, well lots of photo-opportunities for Mr Blunkett and his dog in South London, and "roll-outs" (and roll-ups) left, right and centre.

And so it might have gone, had not the Mail found the right person to open their chequebook to (with or without the help of moles in New Scotland Yard, we'll never know.)

Under this scenario, it's quite possible that the Commisioner, the Police Authority and their masters are as desparate to find a resolution as everyone else, apart of course from the Mail. In which case, BP's appearance may not have been so risky after all. 

Getting a bit late here,

Best,

Pooka

PS Telling article in Tuesday's Times - "Why the Tories should support Commander Paddick" by one Michael Gove (no leftie he!)

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/0,,482-247828,00.html

And also BP to answer questions live on the Times website at 4:00 pm on Wednesday - maybe some of us should go and bowl some nice, slow underarm jobbies.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/section/0,,989,00.html


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 27, 2002)

*Pro-police meeting in Brixton (I just had to type it to believe that it's true!)*

It was a bit weird to come back from the Albert and find the boards a bit negative. So after talking about it with my kids, I have come back to the keyboard.

I have lived in Brixton since the first riot in Brixton in April 1981. Brixton was really good to me when I was at my lowest ebb, and I have done more than OK here, through thick and thin.  Some of the most wonderful people from all over the world that I have ever met, live here too. I have really tried to put back something into the place that I love. I have been very involved in local issues. I have sat through the most mind-numbingly pointless meetings from 6pm till 10.30pm at night, month after fucking month, year after fucking year when I'd far rather be at home or in the Albert. I have attended meetings with Lambeth policemen where it would have been more productive to repeatedly bang my head against a brick wall. I have attended police stations as a a Lay Visitor where I have been put down as a busybody do-gooder white liberal by the police and as a grass by the detainees.  My kids have wailed, "Mum, why do you do these meetings? You don't get paid for it and we want you at home!" I have defended Brixton to outsiders more times than I felt like. I have been a goodwill ambassador for Brixton when I felt like slagging it off. I have arrived at Victoria Station after a day away to hear that my town has been bombed and that my husband and son missed the blast by minutes. My family have been victims of serious crime, including arson and robbery. I live in a really shite tower block that the Guide Dogs for the Blind says is not fit for one of their dogs. No one can accuse me of not caring about, or of not understanding at least some of the problems that  Brixton faces.

Tonight went a long way towards making me feel that it has not been a complete waste of time. I also felt that there were individuals who used the meeting for their own agendas, which took the edge off my joy (I do not count Ricky Bishops mother amongst these). It was great to see faces on the platform that have worked hard for Lambeth over the years, particularly Mike Franklin and Lloyd Leon. It pissed me off that the only woman on the platform, Jane Warwick, who has been the administrator for the CPCG, the Lay Visitors and Victim Support for donkeys years, was not introduced by Lee Jasper by her job title or even with her surname. It was great when Brian Paddick turned up. (If you want to know why Brixton thinks he is so fab, look around Urban75, it's all here amongst the posts.) I am glad that there was a huge spontaneous cheer. It didn't surprise me, because he has always regarded us in Brixton as allies, not as means to furthering his career and he was there to thank us for our support and we appreciated him being there. There were about three or four dissenting voices tonight, out of easily three hundred. (Best attended meeting I have ever been to in Brixton that didn't involve free booze, music or food!) I think Brian Paddick has achieved something incredible in Brixton. I really hope he comes home soon.


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## dia1964 (Mar 27, 2002)

thanx pooka for news links..


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## William of Walworth (Mar 27, 2002)

*Big respect to all*

I'm *really really* sorry I missed this, no excuses really.

Excellent posts above particularly Pooka and Mrs Magpie.

Are there any transcripts/summaries of relevant speeches eg the one from hatboy?

Some Standard coverage here -- not too negative


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## theoderic (Mar 27, 2002)

*Back to reality*

I too have mixed feelings about last night's meeting, which I'll air (to the extent that they haven't already been covered by newbie and pooka) when I have more time.

But right now, can I urge a shift from self-congratulation to a focus on the (short-term) political agenda?

We're committed to campaigning for Paddick's reinstatement NOW. Not after the inquiry, not when the fuss has died down, but NOW.

How are we going to go about this?


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## editor (Mar 27, 2002)

Quick comment: The Standard report isn't bad, but - tellingly - the only two links at the foot of the article are:

Jamaica detective held on gun charge
Constable arrested in drugs leak case


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## grubby local (Mar 27, 2002)

Aye, theoderic. BP is playing the all-out media game - 'Today' this morning, Times this afternoon. He has effectively taken on the role of his own supporters. So, apart from petitions and public meetings, what do u suggest? direct action?  
gx

[webackpaddick@bigissue.com]

nb ditto excellent posts above. (Mine was a bit 'tired and emotional', but the sentiment still stands)


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## TinyCrendon (Mar 27, 2002)

Gribby - Now I know what you meant when you said `are you coming tonight`. D'oh! Must change my sub-moniker...

Sounds good though. Well done organising types. Watch those Red Kens and Lee Jasps though, especially when they're behind u.


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## editor (Mar 27, 2002)

A reminder: you can find loads of links to various Paddick press articles and comments and a pic from last night's meeting here


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## adi baby (Mar 27, 2002)

Well done to everybody in da house last night.  Hatboy, sounds like you did us proud.

I keep thinking about the old days when Thatcher and The Mail ( same entity ) banned the GLC.  No more huge street party's, no more big summer outdoor gigs that were a feature of my london life in the 80's, no more cheap fares.  Basically no more fun.  This for me is the Mail issue.  They do not want us to have fun.  They do not believe in 'the people'.  Its so much easier to hate and long for a police state because then they will not have to worry about being left out anymore because nobodies having a good time anywhere anyway.

The right wing soul has always been born out of envy and bitterness and the hurt of being left out.  And the harder they try to destroy the liberals, the 'do-gooders', the ravers, the hippies, the clubbers, the alternative lifestylers, etc. the more they reveal themselves to be the misfits they are.  Albeit dangerous misfits.

Blimey - is that the time?


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## hatboy (Mar 27, 2002)

Spot on Adi - the people from Associated Newspapers who attempted to make me and Mikee and Offshore look like strange, marginal people were people who knew little about life.  Sheepishly admitting that they didn't see much going on in Pimlico and Chiswick (I asked where they were from).   They are the empty vessels not us.


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## marko (Mar 27, 2002)

...just a reminder that Brian will be answering questions at the Times today - submit yours here before 4pm:  http://www.thetimes.co.uk/section/0,,989,00.html


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## pooka (Mar 27, 2002)

*BBC "Have your say"*

The BBC have opened a "Have your say" board about BP 


at:http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/talking_point/newsid_1896000/1896337.stm


Pooka


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## Steve (Mar 27, 2002)

You're dead right Adi, the sort of people who write for and read The Daily Mail absolutely hate the idea of individuals being free spirits and able to spontaneously enjoy themselves.

Its the mindset of the embittered control freak, terribly fearful of anything "different", who views other people as use objects, not as free individuals.


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## han (Mar 27, 2002)

I found the meeting last night totally inspiring. To have such a diverse group of people from different sections of the community (Christian, Jewish, black, white, old, young, etc...) all in support of a GAY public figure is pretty unusual, in my opinion, and very special. A good sign that things might be getting to the point where they should be - that a public figure can be judged by what they've achieved, not the irrelevance of their sexual preference. And to have that level of support for a policeman, in Brixton - a sign that Paddick is considered the right person for the job.

The journalists at the Mail On Sunday, however, are practically harking back to the dark ages of medieval witch hunts!


Hatboy's contribution was right - it's GOOD that there was dissent at the meeting, it's healthy. There are ways of going about it, though, and screaming hysterically is not the right one.

As the Green party bloke said.....we've all got to keep the campaign going so that Paddick is not allowed to 'disappear' into a lengthy, never-ending investigation....


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## pooka (Mar 27, 2002)

*What next?*

Picking up on earlier postings, what next? Here's a contribution to get the ball rolling.

(Haven't yet got the hang of being concise but comprehensive, but here goes

Who needs persuading?

Ostensibly, the Met and the MPA, but would be highly surprising if the Home Office were not also in there somewhere, including political advisors and ministers.

Are they persuadable?

It may be that they have already given up on PB, in which case we can all come home. But we have no evidence to prove that and have to recognise that they did appoint him and approve his methods and specifically the  cannabis trial. If they ditch him, then it is with some cost to themselves, howsoever finessed. Indeed, as I suggested last night, it may be that these people are as alarmed at the turn of events as we are.

What might persuade them?

A genuine, broad cross community support and support from the movers and shakers. Howsoever elating last nights meeting may have been, it can all too easily be dismissed as just 300 people out of a borough population of 272 k.  

Gathering signatures for petitions is fine, but time consuming and unlikely to go above a few thousand. The declared support of identifiable constituencies is probably more effective. Who might they be?

Well, seems to me you might start with the groups who confront the practical consequences of street crime and drug related community damage. For starters.

Voluntary organisations like Victim Support;
Neighbourhood watches;
Chamber of Commerce
Parent Teachers Asscociations
Law Centres;
Family Practioner Groups
Teaching Unions
Residents Associations
Pensioner Groups.
The Council/Local Parties (who have been markedly quiet so far)
Church groups

How might their support be enlisted?

A good way to get people on board is simply to ask their advice and opinions. Canvassing opinion across these, and similar groupings would be a good starting point - and we would would have to accept the risk that we might find that support is not as wide as we think. 

But to do this in practical terms means more organisation, more letters written, calls made, than can be put together through a web site - how might it happen?

And not to forget the media. From my recall, useful pieces have been written by:

Simon Jenkins (Times)
Michael Gove  (Times)
Polly Toynbee (Guardian)
David Aaronovitch (Independent)
Sussan Moore (Independent)

Might these people not be contacted for advice and contacts?

About to retire to bed with a stinking cold - will check back later.

Pooka


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## detective-boy (Mar 28, 2002)

Pooka and Mrs M - excellent posts - you sum the situation up admirably.

The last post above this raises an interesting issue.  I think the Met stands on the edge of a unique win situation with regards to community relations.  BP needs to be investigated swiftly (i.e. days or weeks), given a bollocking for anything he has done wrong and re-instated to Lambeth.  He should then be encouraged to build on this unprecedented community support with some more ground breaking initiatives (Brian, if you want some ideas, let me know).

Will they do it?  I don't know but if anyone will, it's John Stevens.


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## theoderic (Mar 28, 2002)

*Tactics*

I've been aware of some very interesting stuff on this thread over the last day or so, and I'm sorry lack of time precludes my fuller participation right now.

Detective-boy makes a very strong tactical point on the advantages to the Met of a speedy and favourable resolution.

As I see it, we hold the high ground, and as long as we keep it, we'll win. So more of the same - keep up the petitioning and the emailing, keep it high-profile even if media coverage has peaked. And keep it clean .

We should maintain and extend the non-confrontational street presence we established last Saturday. We need to be visible.

Propaganda apart, the most positive outcome of the Assembly Rooms meeting was the amendment passed at the end calling for Brian's reinstatement *immediately*, prior to the conclusion of the inquiry. I'm surprised more hasn't been made of it in this thread. A quick denouement is what we're going for now, and pressure on this point can only help to speed things up.

DB, I'd welcome your insider's take on this. To reinstate an officer while under investigation would be unusual, perhaps unprecedented. But would it actually be impossible?


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## William of Walworth (Mar 28, 2002)

*Pooka*

Excellent post but don't forget Deborah Orr on the Independent, she's been good too, and she's posted one or two positive messages here!


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## Brian (Mar 28, 2002)

Thank you all so much for all you are doing and especially for the other night.  

I feel desparately sorry for Mrs Bishop - no matter what happened (investigation, legal issues, no comment, blah, blah), no-one deserves to die in the circumstances that Ricky died in.

Mrs Bishop has been to numerous public meetings, rallies and marches (see Movement for Justice March thread - Mrs Bishop was there, I saw her and spoke to her).  Unfortunately I believe she is now being exploited by others (although I guess they would say the same thing is happening to me).

I am keeping the faith.  More than anything I want to get back to work as the Borough Commander in Lambeth.  I am not doing any more media.  Now I think it is time for me to sit quietly and let it all die down.  Having said that, 'The Mail' are at it again today.

At the end of the day I am NOT the Messiah, I am human and I make mistakes.  Please forgive me if I put a foot wrong sometimes.

Brian


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## newbie (Mar 28, 2002)

*Not the Messiah?*

Damn, I was thinking of Brockwell Park pond for the walking on water bit.


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## Mr Day (Mar 28, 2002)

I am keeping the faith.  


v gld to hear it

  I am not doing any more media.  Now I think it is time for me to sit quietly and let it all die down.  Having said that, 'The Mail' are at it again today.

You just can't keep a scummy newspaper down - I think sitting quietly for a bit is probably  a sound idea. Let things sink in a bit

At the end of the day I am NOT the Messiah
Brian [/B][/QUOTE]


Damn !!! And I've been sat on this website for weeks  waiting for the loaves and fishes to be passed around  seriously though I'd like to say Hurray it's a long weekend, the suns shining, have a good weekend BP and everyone else here


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## theoderic (Mar 28, 2002)

*What next?*

Pooka.

We're not democratic centralists here (my 2nd favourite oxymoron). All can advocate, none can prescribe.

Which is as it should be.

If you're able and willing to pursue the avenues you suggest, go for it. All the best.

But be careful. When you're dealing with the great, the good and the media-hungry, always watch your back. We use them, that's good. They use us - not so good.

Anybody who hasn't drawn that lesson from the campaign so far should lay off the white widow for a couple of days.

Specifically, re your last post:-

Michael Gove is a bargepole and a half to the right of anyone here;
Polly Toynbee is a loose cannon at best - no telling which way she'll fire;
... and so on.

And as for the local parties - well, I'm on record as refusing to carry any party's banner. It goes without saying they all have an agenda, so what I've said above goes in spades.

I'm not tarring them all with the same brush, but it certainly helps to know who you're dealing with.

To move on a bit (I'm limited in the number of posts I can make at the moment).

Nothing right now should be allowed to deflect from the goal of the immediate reinstatement of Brian Paddick.

But what after that? Wouldn't an exemplary kicking of the MoS (at least) provide both justice and satisfaction?

Through the courts, or on the streets.

By any means necessary.

But this, as somebody's bound to point out, is for another thread.

[Edited for typos]


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## pooka (Mar 28, 2002)

*What's next?*

William of Walworth - I think I meant Deborah Orr not Susanne Moore, bit muddle headed last night

Brian - Just to say hang in there. I'm a brixton resident of 14 years, politically inactive for about 20 or more, the "only" drugs I do are alcohol and nicotine..... but the good sense of what you're trying to do and the sheer injustice and squalor of the Mails camapign has drawn me here and to the Town Hall on Tuesday, together with your own candid and thoughtful manner demonstrated on these pages. 

A suggestion - when you get your job back you could set up your own bulletin board for Brixton Police. Urban75 is excellent, but there will be a lot of people in the community who will be put off by the "anarchist" labelling. Sad I know, but the reality. You have demonstrated how good a medium it is for free exchange with the public. But if you do, make sure to keep away the media handlers, spin doctors &tc - they are the very death to trust and confidence.

Theodoric - 

I understand the words in your first sentence but not sure I have the meaning.  Seems to me that if you dismiss democracy and some degree of centrism, then you throw out the notion of the law and its policing? But I think it might need a separate thread for you to put me right !

Won't go on. Just to say that if the lever is widespread support then it has to be demonstrated, and it has to be broader than this website. I set out one way of doing that. Others may have better ideas. And no, I don't think it's something one person can set about on their tod - they are a likely to come across as an obsesive crank and so be ineffective as well as there only being so many hours any one person can put in.

As above, the significance of the jouurnos was their very diversity - sure, Micheal Gove is a Thatcherite rebirthed by Portillo, Polly Toynbee is a New Labour friendly Social Democratic. Likewise my comment about political parties. Surely the strongest arguement is that support for BP is primarily pragmatic. for his style of policing and the results its getting, and not based on political or philosophical axe grinding?

As for the Mail. My own feeling is that action on the streets may make the partcipants feel good, but rarely persudes anyone. Exceptions are when its grannies to babes in arms and its in marginal constituences - as with the Poll tax - or its seismic stuff like Paris in 68. I'm not sure were talking either of those here. As for the courts, the libel laws are a rich man's pasture I'm afraid.

But there is a need to think through sustainable ways for ordinary people to challange the dominance of the press in our lives and I suggest you set up a thread for this.

Sorry to go on - I seem incapable of writing short postings! Must get back to work.

Best,

Pooka


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## pooka (Mar 28, 2002)

> _Originally posted by detective-boy _
> *
> 
> Will they do it?  I don't know but if anyone will, it's John Stevens. *




Heartened to hear that, detective-boy - why do you think so?


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## theoderic (Mar 28, 2002)

*Weekend*

I'm available for any mundane legwork required this weekend, but I really need to know today, or I'm out of town.

But remember, no party-specific banners on my patch!

Pooka, thanks for yours, but I'll have to get back to you later.


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## detective-boy (Mar 28, 2002)

*Tactics*



> _Originally posted by theoderic _
> *DB, I'd welcome your insider's take on this. To reinstate an officer while under investigation would be unusual, perhaps unprecedented. But would it actually be impossible? *



As Cmdr Paddick has not been suspended, just moved administratively to another job temporarily, and especially as his post has not been filled by someone else (his deputy is looking after things), there is nothing to stop his being returned to Lambeth even before the investigation is complete.

That said, it would be unlikely as it would appear inconsistent - take him away, send him back ... I think the best bet is to hope enquiry to be done as quickly as possible (and, unfortunately, these things do have a habit of dragging on ... and on ... and on ...).

Pooka - Why do I think if anyone will, John Stevens will?  Because he is an extremely able and savvy chief officer.  I am sure that he will see that, no matter what his own opinion about Brian Paddick is, there is a once in a lifetime opportunity to move community relations on by a quantum leap.  And, oh yeah, he's one of the most decisive chief officers I've ever met.


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## pooka (Mar 28, 2002)

*Rely to Theodoric and Detective Boy*

Detective Boy - thanks for that. Also note comment attributed to Stevens that the Brixton trial results are the best ever achieved by the Met. 

Given what you say about immediate reinstatement being unlikely, then perhaps the real virtue of the "amendment to the resolution" (god, that phrase takes me back and sends a chill down my spine!) calling for it is that it gives the MPA something to say no to?

Incidentally, presumably the easiest way for this thing to be brought to a close would be for James Whatsit to withdraw his allegations?

Theodoric - my post "what's next?" was in fact in further to yours saying "Town Hall meeting all well and good but what do we do now". What ideas did you have in mind?

Like Theodoric, I can make some time available over the weekend - prob BH Monday - for mundane leg work, if anyone has some lined up.

pooka


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## bbsnews (Mar 29, 2002)

*BBSNews coverage*

Over at BBSNews we are pleased as can be at the support that Brian Paddick and his policies are getting. There is still plenty of coverage here of the issue. http://bbsnews.net/page-two.phtml has a live news query which is providing up to the hour (or so)news matching Brian Paddick Lambeth as search terms and links to the most recent research to the story in Lambeth as well.

Y'all have a perfect opportunity there and the correspondence that I've received here at BBSNews recently bears this out.

You are living in an incubator of an idea that was long past coming, simple common sense in policing. And acceptance of everybody for who they are as long as they are not attacking people or stealing their property. A libertarian idea that "they" said would never work.

I believe as others do that your community and Brian Paddick and his policies are the cusp of a new reality, like maybe for once real truth, that is within our grasp. The folks that emailed me about the meeting all had the same fire in their eyes.

Like Mrs. MagPie I see some hope that was not there before. Maybe these years of work have not been for nothing. So I shamelessly offer BBSNews for the cause. 

Like Mike Slocombe at http://urban75.com I believe in no ads, no crap, just the content I promise. And that means no pop-ups.

When the editorial staff over here at BBSNews gets behind an idea we do so because we believe in it. I first personally registered voters for marijuana law reform in 1976. It's long overdue and ridiculous that a person can kill themselves by smoking tobacco legally and be jailed for smoking a plant that the Lancet says is "relatively harmless, even long term."

The US Drug Czar is currently telling American teens through millions of dollars of advertising that they are responsible for 9/11 by smoking a joint or using ecstasy during the weekend. Even so far as to have a teen say on camera "I helped murder a Colombian Judge." And they even show box cutters. Please don't let your country do such stupid things.

My suggestion would be just to stay with the common sense of the ideas shown to be workable by the Paddick Policies. And stick with it. Common sense can't fail to deliver what one expects.

Fairness and justice.

Michael Hess
Editor, BBSNews
http://bbsnews.net


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## newbie (Mar 29, 2002)

pookie I'm not sure about what "comment attributed to Stevens that the Brixton trial results are the best ever achieved by the Met" actually means.  I heard him say, on the radio, that Haringey crime reduction figures are better than Lambeth, but using more standard methods. I've no idea what that means (except that reliance on statistics is dodgey)- anyone from Haringey care to comment? 

As for whatsit to withdraw the allegations, that isn't really possible- BP has admitted that at least two are true (allowing premises, and association on bail), and the allegations have been published, not made as a complaint which could be withdrawn.  

Rolling the allegations up into 'bringing the police into disrepute' and using the public clamour to show that that just isn't the case may provide a face saving mechanism for Stevens to reinstate Brian.  I don't think I'd approve of that in different circumstances: imagine a commander who was outed as a fox hunter after being overly restrictive of sabs- would a public clamour to reinstate be acceptable?  There is an old saying that hard cases make bad law, and it may well apply here: however hard on Brian the precedent may be a serious longterm problem.


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## pooka (Mar 29, 2002)

I think it was in coverage of the press conference releasing the results of the trial - but may have related to the support measured by the MORI poll rather than the trial results themselves. Don't have time to search at the moment, but will do......

Take your point about whatsit....

I think your analogy about the fox-hunting commander is an interesting one - raises the issue of how variable policing methods can be across the country and whether we townies would be if a rural police service chose to be lax in prosecuting a hunting ban, if such is ever introduced. 

However, the analogy you make isn't exact but would be if the fox-hunting commander had introduced an explicit policy with the appoval of his superiors and police authority. In which case he would just be doing his job.

pooka (though "pookie"'s kinda sweet  )


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## VotePaddick (Mar 29, 2002)

*keeping the message tight*

there is such a volume of constuctive debate developing here that it might be called the 'Fourth Way'.

As with the media face facts; colomnists criticize and could start a fight in an empty house. Jounalists write what the editor wants and the editor's job is to sell papers.

I know its Easter and we shouldn't be expecting PB to rise again on Sunday ( I hope this doesn't offend on religious grounds ) and very little progress will be made while Parliament is in recess. However I did read the annual report on Tuesday and it should from Rt Hon David Blunkett's opening summary suggest that a question could be tabled in parliament. But this is of course a bit highbrow for us in Lambeth to consider.

I'd like to propose a St. Paddicks Day.
Or a ReinSt. Paddick something cathchy like that.
Sometime in the near future to keep the massage alive.

With  10 qualified reasons  why he should be reinstated so that everyone knows exactly what the demo is about.
Quotes from Ken Livingstone and prominent church figures things like that.

Create a carnival, lots of sections from the community with their own ideas and descend on a spot in Lambeth.

The best way to stick two fingers up to the Daily Mail is to have religous leaders espousing their views as was done on Tues.

Middle England then might just get an idea of what Lambeth is about.


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## hatboy (Mar 29, 2002)

Excellent idea VoteP.   I think this will come together in April. Not sure yet. I've heard other people propose a St Paddicks day.  Next week all the different people in this will hopefully be able to get together and start firming the next big date up. I think Windrush Square and a fun atmosphere like you suggest. Maybe a sound system?


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## GaryJenkins (Mar 29, 2002)

Total respect to all Urban 75ites who feel so strongly re Brian Paddick's exile that you're trying to do something about it.  However I'm puzzled about the claim from some of Brian's disciples that there has been a Paddick-inspired reduction in crime during his time in Lambeth.

He became Divisional Commander  in December 2000

The Met Police website shows crime levels in Lambeth for the first 11 months of the current year (ie April 2001-Feb 2002) as follows


Violent crime     7493
Robbery            5760
All crime          52178

Equivalent figures for the previous year (ie April 2000-Feb 2001) 

Violent crime     7280
Robbery            4188
All crime           46656


So in Paddick's first year  there has been a 3% increase in violent crime, a 38% increase in robbery and a 12% increase in all crimes.  

It's perhaps fairer to compare Lambeth with London as a whole rather than using the raw figures.  The London figures over the same period show a 5% increase in violent crime, a 29% increase in robberies and a 7% increase in all crime.

So no evidence of Messianic tendencies, indeed a worse performance than other parts of London with less enlightened Divisional Commanders.

I'm not saying these figures are conclusive, but if my arithmetic is correct then people are entitled to be Doubting Thomases at Brian's supper table.


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## hatboy (Mar 29, 2002)

Yeah but we know what it's like to live here.   There was a mad patch about 9 or 10 months ago, but things have got better since then.  I think you've been very selective with the statistics, especially as you've been here before and your opinions aren't exactly reformist when it comes to the Police.   I remember how dismissive you were of the Stephen Lawrence enquiry.

Whatever the stats Brian Paddick is respected locally because he is humane, honest and approachable.  Look at the BBC report titled "Paddick wins hearts and minds" if you want to see how genuinely popular he is here.

Remember the Mori poll:  83% of Lambeth people  polled supported his policies. But more than that, people also respect the man. Because he seems like one of us, rather than some far off bully-boy or bureaucrat (sp?) like so many police and politicians.


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## VotePaddick (Mar 30, 2002)

Thanks Hatboy for your praise. Its always good to get feedback from a TV personality.

On the subject of St. Paddicks day and two fingers to the Mail. How about an 11 oclock start with some classical music recorded if necessary followed by a sunshine opera - la traviata springs to mind and let the middle classes mingle before more inductive music.

May sound poncy but bits of Brixton lit up one day ( sound system permitting ) with Verdi, Brahams, and Wagner ( nazi overtones omitted ) could throw the police into complete confusion.

Chopin for repetitive beats if we want to get arrested.

Perhaps I've had too many sherries. But I like the thought of relaxed folk wandering to the sound majestic tunes  culminating around Mozart's 'A Musical Joke' K.522 4th presto really putting the squash on these idiots' reaction down.

Good Press.

Brixton revels in classical carnival to celebrate the return of 19th century ideas  -- that is my irony.

Then go fucking ballistic after sunset.


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 30, 2002)

I'd favour Shostakovich. The Leningrad  perhaps?


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## editor (Mar 30, 2002)

Gary: you should be judging crime figures  *after* Paddick introduced his drugs policy:


> Since Commander Paddick decided to switch resources from soft drug users to hard drug dealers, 1,350 hours of police time have been saved. When Commander Paddick’s approach was introduced last July there were 760 recorded street crimes such as muggings and snatches in Lambeth. By last month that figure had fallen to 556. Times 26.03.02





> Brian Paddick arrived in December 2000, the rising tide of crime in Brixton has turned. Figures compiled by the Metropolitan Police suggest that street robberies in the Borough of Lambeth have fallen from 23 a day at this time last year to 17 a day now. Burglaries have fallen by eight per cent: from 397 in February 2001 to 363 in February 2002.  Spectator 23.03.02





> Commander Paddick has led a sustained attack on the levels of street crime in Lambeth since their October peak, bucking the London and nation-wide trend... Most notable of all, Commander Paddick has overseen an eleven per cent increase in arrests for drug dealing since July last year.Ken Livingstone


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## John Wisehammer (Mar 30, 2002)

Firstly, from a statistical point of view, figures of 3% and 5% are insignificant when recorded by thousands of different respondants in different places and different criteria - there's just too much policy for error. (Interestingly, you could also perfectly truthfully say that the rate of growth of violent crime in Lambeth has been 2% lower than across London as a whole since Paddick began - but that's just playing data games to make it sound positive). Obviously the bigger numbers will have more worth - fair enough.

Secondly, as we all know, crime figures are notoriously poor indicators of the *actual* level of crime going on and the way they're compiled can produce counterintuitive results. For instance, you could easily find that the switch of policing away from cannabis to other crime actually shows an increase in other crime - simply because cops are spending more time attending to, recording and (hopefully) investigating crime. This might or might not have been the case in Lambeth since the policy introduction - only a very concentrated micro-level study would tell you anything with any sort of certainty - but those raw numbers alone won't tell you much. Crime and policing just isn't measureable in such crude terms (unfortunately).


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 30, 2002)

Wheras the fact that Lambeth has largely united behind Paddick can be quantified, because of the way he has gone out of his way to honestly engage and listen to the community, we can actually notice the difference. I still am amazed that there was a large public meeting with a very wide cross section of the community attending, supporting a police officer in Brixton. That says more than statistics can.


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## pooka (Mar 30, 2002)

*Statistics*

Gary (and subsequent posts) raises an interesting point and there should always be room for Doubting Thomas's 
But...

If the guy was appointed in Dec 2000, over what period should we make a judgement? Seems to me that even those who percieve a Messiah would give him time to get his feet under the table. 

The cannabis trial didn't start till mid-summer.

More important, which direction are the numbers moving? Tried to download the monthly stats from the Met site, but it is soooo slow - will try again when I've got more time.


But that aside, surely the point is that the guy seems to be setting about things in a productive way and should be judged on sustained outcomes? If he screws up - then fine,he should be out. What he shouldn't be is driven out by a grubby news paper which doesn't give a toss about Lambeth and is accountable to no one.


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## VotePaddick (Mar 30, 2002)

stats mean f**k all if you interpret them.


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## VotePaddick (Mar 30, 2002)

you don't choose to have a baby on stats.
you don't get engaged cos of stats.
you don't buy Creme deMenthe cos of stats
you do it cos you like it,
we like PB. end of story.


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## jema (Mar 31, 2002)

I am a bit of a newbie on the experiments being carried out on policing and I know enough about stats to know that by the time they have been miscollected, spun and headlined they can be utterly misleading and meaningless.... but I can't recall from what I have heard about Paddock him claiming that his methods were god given and due for automatic success. I do recall seeing words like trial and experiment  

To me it all seems like common sense, stop harrassing and criminalising people for trivia and concentrate on real crime and maybe you will enage the communitiy and have more success against real crime. But that is all it will ever be anyway, Paddock if allowed to continue might have a measurable impact on crime, but it can only ever be finite in a tough area.

jema


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