# Brixton's Blacker Dread jailed for two and a half years for money laundering



## editor (Jun 23, 2014)

Blimey!

Blacker Dread (aka Steve Burnett-Martin) trousered £230,411 in fraudulent payments to his record shop  as part of a £700k scam.









> A FORMER credit controller has been jailed for her key part in stealing more than £700,000 from her employer.
> 
> Lorna Martin, of Selhurst Road, South Norwood, has been jailed alongside the five people into whose bank accounts the money was paid.
> 
> ...



http://www.croydonadvertiser.co.uk/...ompany-ICMND/story-21278285-detail/story.html

Pic credit [--]


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## Crispy (Jun 23, 2014)

Explains how he managed to keep that shop open in such a prime location.


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## leanderman (Jun 23, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Explains how he managed to keep that shop open in such a prime location.



I wonder what percentage cut he got for laundering £230k


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## Sirena (Jun 23, 2014)

Crikey!  i knew he was down in the dumps but I though that was because he hadn't got over his mother's death.

The woman must be his daughter...


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## pesh (Jun 23, 2014)

he should have blamed it on an 'inadvertent error'. worked for Maria Miller.


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## Sirena (Jun 23, 2014)

It's not his first time in the slammer...


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## SarfLondoner (Jun 23, 2014)

This explains why his shop has been shut recently.


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## editor (Jun 23, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Explains how he managed to keep that shop open in such a prime location.


Sad to say, I don't imagine it'll be a record shop much longer in a post-cupcake Brixton.


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## SarfLondoner (Jun 23, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Explains how he managed to keep that shop open in such a prime location.


Not necessarily,He did sell records and such as well.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jun 24, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Explains how he managed to keep that shop open in such a prime location.


not necessarily - plenty of businesses which have been around for a long time survive because they either own the building (having bought in the 70s/80s when properties were dirt cheap) or are on long term rent deals. Not everyone is paying £90k a year rent like Costa Coffee.


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## ringo (Jun 24, 2014)

tbh Blacker hasn't been a place to buy records for years. He stopped stocking the latest 45s a decade ago and the stock of LPs and CDs was rarely interesting.


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## DaveCinzano (Jun 24, 2014)




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## TopCat (Jun 24, 2014)

Some people just don't give these things much thought. You don't pay dodgy money into your own account or into any account you can be linked to. Easy peasy to catch you if you do.


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## editor (Jun 24, 2014)

Some, err, interesting commentary here:
http://madnewsuk.com/2014/06/23/uk-...er-blacker-dread-jailed-for-money-laundering/


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## TopCat (Jun 24, 2014)

"And to think only last month a* crowd funding page was launched to raise funds for this year’s Brixton Splash event,*due to significant funding cuts as well as rising costs.  Organisers have had to resort to launching a funding page to ensure the event goes ahead this year while Blacker had thousands of pounds languishing in a bank account."

Well Posh Lee could always stump up some of his thousands.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 24, 2014)

TopCat said:


> "And to think only last month a* crowd funding page was launched to raise funds for this year’s Brixton Splash event,*due to significant funding cuts as well as rising costs.  Organisers have had to resort to launching a funding page to ensure the event goes ahead this year while Blacker had thousands of pounds languishing in a bank account."
> 
> Well Posh Lee could always stump up some of his thousands.



Posh Lee and his attempts to strong-arm local businesses last year are probably a substantial part of the *cause* of Splash's "funding cuts".


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## mxh (Jun 25, 2014)

Seems odd having to close the BV business for the day, their hardly going to contribute to Splash.


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## Sirena (Jun 25, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> This explains why his shop has been shut recently.


There's a handwritten sign in the window saying 'Oops!'


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## SarfLondoner (Jun 25, 2014)

Sirena said:


> There's a handwritten sign in the window saying 'Oops!'


On the outside ?


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## Sirena (Jun 25, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> On the outside ?


On the inside - on the side facing into the arcade.  I think it was probably a wry comment from Blacker himself....


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## SarfLondoner (Jun 25, 2014)

Sirena said:


> On the inside - on the side facing into the arcade.  I think it was probably a wry comment from Blacker himself....


Maybe, I saw people in the shop on Monday although it was closed for buisness.


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## Sirena (Jun 25, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Maybe, I saw people in the shop on Monday although it was closed for buisness.


It was there last week, I think.  Before the news broke....


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## Brixton Hatter (Jun 25, 2014)

mxh said:


> Seems odd having to close the BV business for the day, their hardly going to contribute to Splash.


Will BV be closed on Splash day?

I think it was closed in the past, but that was because the owners didn't ever open it on Sundays iirc.


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## editor (Jun 25, 2014)

It used to be open on Sundays but were told to close for the last Splash.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jun 25, 2014)

Are you sure? I thought they were open last year for the first time. I might be wrong though. I didn't go there!


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## editor (Jun 25, 2014)

Wasn't there last year, but my mate was supposed to be DJing outside and it got cancelled at the last minute. Or maybe that was the year before...


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## SarfLondoner (Jun 25, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> not necessarily - plenty of businesses which have been around for a long time survive because they either own the building (having bought in the 70s/80s when properties were dirt cheap) or are on long term rent deals. Not everyone is paying £90k a year rent like Costa Coffee.


He also has his own record label with some good artists doing the vocals.I have a few with Beres Hammond,Gregory Isaacs,U Roy and Luciano.


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## Sirena (Jun 25, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> He also has his own record label with some good artists doing the vocals.I have a few with Beres Hammond,Gregory Isaacs,U Roy and Luciano.


We were involved in planning to put out an album of his releases called 'Twenty Years on the Front Line'.

It now looks like it will eventually be called 'Twenty Two and a Half Years on the Front Line'


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## SarfLondoner (Jun 25, 2014)

Sirena said:


> We were involved in planning to put out an album of his releases called 'Twenty Years on the Front Line'.
> 
> It now looks like it will eventually be called 'Twenty Two and a Half Years on the Front Line'


I cant imagine he will do the whole stretch maybe half or 2 thirds of the sentence if he keeps his nose clean in there.


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## Sirena (Jun 25, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I cant imagine he will do the whole stretch maybe half or 2 thirds of the sentence if he keeps his nose clean in there.


I'm not sure that applies to those who have done previous prison time...


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## Brixton Hatter (Jun 25, 2014)

Yeah, despite the popular myth, I understand there's actually no such thing as 'time off for good behaviour'.

However, it's possible he could be let out early with a tag ('home detention curfew') cos it's a non-violent offence.


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## SarfLondoner (Jun 25, 2014)

Sirena said:


> I'm not sure that applies to those who have done previous prison time...


I wasn't aware of that if true,Thanks


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## SarfLondoner (Jun 25, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yeah, despite the popular myth, I understand there's actually no such thing as 'time off for good behaviour'.
> 
> However, it's possible he could be let out early with a tag ('home detention curfew') cos it's a non-violent offence.


That is certainly in his favor, I would imagine it will be a cat c prison and an easier ride.


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## TopCat (Jun 26, 2014)

Easy doing time for fraud.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 26, 2014)

Sirena said:


> I'm not sure that applies to those who have done previous prison time...



Standard sentence reduction terms apply even if you have form.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 26, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yeah, despite the popular myth, I understand there's actually no such thing as 'time off for good behaviour'.
> 
> However, it's possible he could be let out early with a tag ('home detention curfew') cos it's a non-violent offence.



There are standard sentence tariffs, and (dependent on internal disciplinary record while serving your sentence tariff) standard sentence-reduction tariffs.  If he behaves himself/doesn't go before the governor too often (that's an actual thing, not a euphemism for the screws kicking your bollocks up into your throat), he's serve about 55% of his sentence tariff before being eligible.  If he consistenctly plays the bad boy, he'll do the whole sentence.  About 70% of prisoners only do the 55%.  Less than 10% of prisoners do their full sentence tariff.  I they did, we'd be seriously under-established in terms of prison places, by around 30,000 beds.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 26, 2014)

doledosser2 said:


> It does.



Imagine if you didn't get time off if you had form! You'd have prisoners on the roofs, and not because they were rioting either, but because that would be where their kip was!


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 26, 2014)

doledosser2 said:


> "Nickings" are an internal thing aren't they? Nothing to do with the original sentence passed?



Yeah, it's "good order and discipline", nothing to do with the original sentence, and even if you're a total cunt and act up all the time, they can't keep you beyond the period of your full sentence, and nowadays can only deduct 7 days from your sentence reduction for each offence that puts you in front of the governor.  used to be 28 days until the early '90s.


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## mxh (Jun 26, 2014)

Couldn't Blacker Dread and his co convicts clean up the mess after Splash, after all they are short of money and wasn't Splash his idea.


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## Sirena (Aug 28, 2014)

Just had a visit from one of Blacker's friends.  He's in Brixton Prison, working on the prison radio service.

Apparently, when you get a longer sentence, you have to serve at least a year in a proper prison.  Then you can be moved to an open prison.

Knowing Blacker, he would probably be happy to do the whole time in Brixton.


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## SarfLondoner (Aug 28, 2014)

mxh said:


> Couldn't Blacker Dread and his co convicts clean up the mess after Splash, after all they are short of money and wasn't Splash his idea.[/QUOTE)


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## GarveyLives (Mar 20, 2016)

SarfLondoner said:


> I cant imagine he will do the whole stretch maybe half or 2 thirds of the sentence if he keeps his nose clean in there.


He's out.


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## blossie33 (Jan 30, 2018)

Reviving this thread - just spotted there is a film about him out soon.

A showing at the Bertha DocHouse (part of the Curzon Bloomsbury cinema in Brunswick Square) on 9th March 2018 for anyone interested,
BEING BLACKER | DocHouse


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## GarveyLives (Mar 1, 2018)

Film maker Molly Dineen returns with a new documentary on Steve ‘Blacker Dread’ Martin





*Note:  It will also be broadcast on BBC2 on Monday 12 March 2018, at 9.00 p.m.*


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## editor (Mar 1, 2018)

mxh said:


> ....and wasn't Splash his idea.


No, it wasn't.


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## GarveyLives (Mar 4, 2018)

Here is The Guardian's view:

Blacker Dread: the record store owner who became Brixton’s hero

Bizarrely, the article is accompanied by a phootograph credited to Tim Graham/Getty Images which is captioned:

_"Blacker meets Nelson Mandela in Brixton at the end of his state visit to Britain in 1996"_

The photograph shows The Late Mr Mandela shaking hands with someone who appears to be 20-30 years older than Steve Martin / Blacker Dread.


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## editor (Mar 4, 2018)

I didn't realise he was "Brixton's hero."


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## CH1 (Mar 5, 2018)

How come a large fraud involving a relative who had access to a companies payment systems has become romanticised into "money laundering"?
Was it money laundering when staff defrauded the Stockwell Resource Centre using the payroll system?


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 5, 2018)

He was found guilty of money laundering.

He was also found guilty of theft.

I don't think there's anything romantic about being a convicted thief and money launderer (or an non-convicted one come to that)


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## editor (Mar 5, 2018)

Quite fantastic rewriting of history here.


> "It was in his son’s memory that Blacker came up with the idea of Brixton Splash, an annual non-profit street party – south London’s answer to the Notting Hill carnival – that he ran for 10 years. “I just thought, this is going to be a tribute to my son, but it will be a silent tribute. There will be thousands of people coming for a big party but, as far as I’m concerned, they’ll be partying for my son.”



The above is a total load of bollocks.

The actual facts: Brixton Splash continues to airbrush its founder from the event’s history


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## GarveyLives (Mar 5, 2018)

> "It was in his son’s memory that Blacker came up with the idea of Brixton Splash, an annual non-profit street party – south London’s answer to the Notting Hill carnival – that he ran for 10 years. “I just thought, this is going to be a tribute to my son, but it will be a silent tribute. There will be thousands of people coming for a big party but, as far as I’m concerned, they’ll be partying for my son.”


The murder of his 24-year old son, *Solomon Shiloh Martin* who died in a silver Reno Clio in Pilgrim Hill, West Norwood following a hail of bullets from three separate guns on 31 December 2004 remains unsolved, despite the offer of a £20,000 reward for information leading to a conviction.

Maybe the documentary will encourage those who can assist with the enquiry – including Solomon Martin’s two friends who were with him in the same vehicle at the start of the attack – to come forward.


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## Gramsci (Mar 5, 2018)

I haven't seen the documentary.

Blacker Dread: the record store owner who became Brixton’s hero

The Guardian piece does give me cause for concern. As editor says his reasons for starting Splash are historically inaccurate. I also wonder whether his assertion that it it was him that persuaded Nelson Mandela to come here is accurate.

As I have had , somewhat fraught, dealings with documentary film with Carlton Mansions I am much more circumspect about documentary film making.

I watched the trailer for the Being Blacker doc. He is very charismatic. Comes across well on camera.

Is he to be taken as represented of the Black experience in Britain? The doc maker Molly seems to think so.

Documentary film isn't historical research. It should be imo but it's not. Blacker Dread is just the kind of person doc makers like. Blacker creates himself as he goes along. Makes his own narrative. As in his version of Splash. He is doc makers dream. You just have to stick the camera in front of him and he performs.

He does show that an aspect of identity is performative. This doesn't mean it's wrong or superficial. It's that when watching docs one must imo keep a distance. A first person doc is not the literal truth. To add Im not critical of Blacker for this.I need to see the doc. I think all people create and recreate the narrative of there lives. Blacker is representative of someone who has had to deal with living in a racist society, also subject to colonialism and the legacy of slavery. Hopefully the doc does explore this.

Someone told me that one of the problems of historical research is that it is the " characters" who come forward first to be recorded. When I read Guardian piece and watched the trailer I thought there are other Afro Carribbean people/ families I know who would be better representation of the immigrant Black experience in London.


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## editor (Mar 5, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I haven't seen the documentary.
> 
> Blacker Dread: the record store owner who became Brixton’s hero
> 
> ...


Ultimately, it's all showbiz of a sort. For the documentary maker to get the required funding/distribution/attention, they firstly need a charismatic central character who can perform for the cameras and keep an audience entertained. The truth almost always comes second in such situations.


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## Slo-mo (Mar 10, 2018)

Here we go, 90 minutes worth on Monday night with some clips already available.

BBC Two - Being Blacker


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## CH1 (Mar 10, 2018)

Slo-mo said:


> Here we go, 90 minutes worth on Monday night with some clips already available.
> BBC Two - Being Blacker


I guess the receipts will go towards paying off the confiscation order?


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## peterkro (Mar 10, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> As I have had , somewhat fraught, dealings with documentary film with Carlton Mansions I am much more circumspect about documentary film making.



Ditto the Lefties: Property is Theft film about Villa road.Completely skewed.


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## David Clapson (Mar 10, 2018)

The Beeb description says: 





> the film focuses on a tumultuous time in Blacker's life - the death of his mother and the prospect of his first prison sentence


 I've always been led to believe that his first sentence was years ago when he was in a  gang. And that the gang/prison thing is the reason he can mediate with the sort of people who don't normally engage with a mediator. Is that correct?


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## urbanspaceman (Mar 11, 2018)

Sirena said:


> It's not his first time in the slammer...


Is there any more information available about this ?


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## Slo-mo (Mar 11, 2018)

Well I dont know if this is a recommendation or not but the MoS TV guide has this as its top TV documentary of the week.


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## Gramsci (Mar 11, 2018)

I don't care that Blacker Dread got done for money laundering. He's done his time and paid his dues to society. What irritates me about Blacker is the self aggrandisement. That's what I object to. In particular knowingly writing Pat out of Brixton Splash history. This is because Pat is white. If he wasn't Jasper and Blacker would not have written him out of the origins of Splash.

On money laundering the City of London is one big offshore financial centre. That it's a big money laundering operation. Russian Oligarchs have been money laundering buying up property through front companies. The influx of Russian dirty money has been given blind eye by Tory and Labour government. As they want London to be world financial centre. Plus the real crooks in the City who caused the financial crisis got bailed out by government or took early retirement. None of them did jail time.

It's low hanging, not that bright, fruit like Blacker who do jail time. Whilst the real scum who run the City of London are laughing.


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## CH1 (Mar 11, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I don't care that Blacker Dread got done for money laundering. He's done his time and paid his dues to society. What irritates me about Blacker is the self aggrandisement. That's what I object to.


I am curious to see what the film/TV programme has to say on this.
The way I read the case at the time it wasn't money laundering at all. Unless he is trying to make out his daughter/female relative who diverted the money from the company she worked for forced him to put it through his bank account, and he really had no idea what was going on.


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## Gramsci (Mar 11, 2018)

CH1 said:


> I am curious to see what the film/TV programme has to say on this.
> The way I read the case at the time it wasn't money laundering at all. Unless he is trying to make out his daughter/female relative who diverted the money from the company she worked for forced him to put it through his bank account, and he really had no idea what was going on.



He got done for money laundering. She made up fake invoices and put proceeds through several people bank accounts. Including Blacker. So he was done in law for allowing his bank account to process money got from criminal actions of another.


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## GarveyLives (Mar 12, 2018)

​


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## David Clapson (Mar 12, 2018)

So far it's only saying he 'helped' set up Splash.


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## editor (Mar 12, 2018)

David Clapson said:


> So far it's only saying he 'helped' set up Splash.


Every single Splash press release after the first one claimed that it was his and Ros Griffith's 'brainchild.' 

Hence the need for:  Brixton Splash continues to airbrush its founder from the event’s history


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## CH1 (Mar 12, 2018)

I watched the film on TV just now, obviously, and thought as documentaries go it was a very full approach to the subject.

From a Brixton history point of view I found it interesting that the family originally had some connection with the Bible Truth Church of God - the tin shack in Hetherington Road (is it still there? - the church has had permission to redevelop for several years).

I thought the idea that grammar schools in Jamaica know how to educate Jamaican kids without labelling them as hyperactive, autistic or having ADHD was interesting. I guess Blacker and his son's mother can say that - but if establishment people came out with that here it would be crossing politically acceptable boundaries.

I remember going to a talk in St Matthews crypt back in about 1982 where the speaker, a white probation officer, brought along 3 of his teenage black clients, and they all discussed youth crime and punishment. The probation officer said one of the things that kept him involved in his job was that the clients always had some sense of optimism and thought there was a potential for them to eventually succeed.

There was a bit of that attitude in this film - but the most moving speech was from the young man at the end whose friend had been stabbed to death. Solidarity is great, but in the face of senseless murder might be futile.


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## ringo (Mar 14, 2018)

I enjoyed it, good documentary. I didn't get the impression Blacker was making grandiose claims at all, some of the digs above seem a bit unnecessary. He seemed the same affable, larger than life character I've always experienced when buying records in his shop over the last 20 years. The schooling sentiments I've heard many times from Jamaican families, it was a proper slice of Brixton life.
His sidekick was good value, probably less so in his badman days.
Big up Blacker.


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## Gramsci (Mar 14, 2018)

David Clapson said:


> So far it's only saying he 'helped' set up Splash.



It was the recent Guardian article where it says:




> Brixton Splash, an annual non-profit street party – south London’s answer to the Notting Hill carnival – was founded by Blacker and Ros Griffiths. Blacker was involved for 10 years. “I just thought, this is going to be a tribute to my son, but it will be a silent tribute. There will be thousands of people coming for a big party but, as far as I’m concerned, they’ll be partying for my son.”



Blacker Dread: the record store owner who became Brixton’s hero

No mention at all of Pat.


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 15, 2018)

ringo said:


> I enjoyed it, good documentary. *I didn't get the impression Blacker was making grandiose claims at all, some of the digs above seem a bit unnecessary.* He seemed the same affable, larger than life character I've always experienced when buying records in his shop over the last 20 years. The schooling sentiments I've heard many times from Jamaican families, it was a proper slice of Brixton life.
> His sidekick was good value, probably less so in his badman days.
> Big up Blacker.




Agreed.....


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## GarveyLives (Mar 18, 2018)

> I enjoyed it, good documentary. I didn't get the impression Blacker was making grandiose claims at all, some of the digs above seem a bit unnecessary. He seemed the same affable, larger than life character I've always experienced when buying records in his shop over the last 20 years. The schooling sentiments I've heard many times from Jamaican families, it was a proper slice of Brixton life.
> His sidekick was good value, probably less so in his badman days.
> Big up Blacker.


The documentary is repeated tonight on BBC2 at 11.25 p.m.


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## Tricky Skills (Mar 19, 2018)

That Graun piece has been amended:

"This article was amended on 6 March 2018 to include reference to Ros Griffiths as a founder of Brixton Splash."

Talk about writing your own history 

I wonder is she places the same demands on people writing about Brixton Wave?


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## GarveyLives (Mar 19, 2018)

> I've always been led to believe that his first sentence was years ago when he was in a gang. And that the gang/prison thing is the reason he can mediate with the sort of people who don't normally engage with a mediator. Is that correct?


That is one that you will have to ask those who have always led you to beleive it.


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## GarveyLives (Mar 19, 2018)

> I didn't realise he was "Brixton's hero."


Some of those shown in the documentary appear to take a different view.


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## Tricky Skills (Mar 19, 2018)

There was an interesting discussion on 5Live this afternoon coming out of some of the issues raised by Blacker when he was a guest on Nihal's show last week.

The discussion starts at around 22 minutes in. Stay with it to hear some spot on views from local artist TY.


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## Mr Retro (May 18, 2018)

The show is on again right now on BBC2


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## CH1 (May 19, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> The show is on again right now on BBC2


Excuse the esoteric nature of this response. It's late (as Andrew Neil would say) and the Polish Lager has done it's work. I noted up-thread  that Blacker's family originally had a connection with the Bible Truth Church of God in Hetherington Road. The film has some good vintage still photos of a family occasion at the church.

Just for fun was Googling away and found this recent posting of part of a service there (from 2016). I haven't been down Hetherington Road lately - it could be that the "tin tabernacle" building has already been demolished. The church had planning permission for a new building with church on the ground floor and (presumably) luxury flats above.

Like everything else in Brixton those quirky old features are being consigned to the dustbin of history.

The Youtube clip is the only interior view I've ever seen (towards the end)


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## GarveyLives (Jun 24, 2019)

> I enjoyed it, good documentary. I didn't get the impression Blacker was making grandiose claims at all, some of the digs above seem a bit unnecessary. He seemed the same affable, larger than life character I've always experienced when buying records in his shop over the last 20 years. The schooling sentiments I've heard many times from Jamaican families, it was a proper slice of Brixton life.
> His sidekick was good value, probably less so in his badman days.
> Big up Blacker.


As news reaches me of the legendary Lloyd Coxsone's displeasure with some of Blacker Dread's actions, the BBC give "Being Blacker" a further airing this evening on BBC2 at 11.15 p.m.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 26, 2019)

GarveyLives said:


> As news reaches me of the legendary Lloyd Coxsone's displeasure with some of Blacker Dread's actions, the BBC give "Being Blacker" a further airing this evening on BBC2 at 11.15 p.m.



What news has reached you?


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## editor (Jun 26, 2019)

GarveyLives said:


> As news reaches me of the legendary Lloyd Coxsone's displeasure with some of Blacker Dread's actions, the BBC give "Being Blacker" a further airing this evening on BBC2 at 11.15 p.m.


As Nanker Phelge says: what news?  Please explain.


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## thebackrow (Jul 3, 2019)

CH1 said:


> Just for fun was Googling away and found this recent posting of part of a service there (from 2016). I haven't been down Hetherington Road lately - it could be that the "tin tabernacle" building has already been demolished. The church had planning permission for a new building with church on the ground floor and (presumably) luxury flats above.
> 
> Like everything else in Brixton those quirky old features are being consigned to the dustbin of history.



It's still there but not sure if it's still in use.  Certainly hasn't been redeveloped yet.


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## GarveyLives (Oct 12, 2020)

The BBC give "Being Blacker" a further airing this evening on BBC2 at 11.30 p.m.


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## editor (Oct 12, 2020)

GarveyLives said:


> The BBC give "Being Blacker" a further airing this evening on BBC2 at 11.30 p.m.


We're still waiting for you to tell us the news about "the legendary Lloyd Coxsone's displeasure with some of Blacker Dread's actions."


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## TopCat (Oct 12, 2020)

editor said:


> We're still waiting for you to tell us the news about "the legendary Lloyd Coxsone's displeasure with some of Blacker Dread's actions."


I'm holding my breath.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 12, 2020)

editor said:


> As Nanker Phelge says: what news?  Please explain.


Doubtless tittle-tattle


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## wurlycurly (Oct 12, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> Doubtless tittle-tattle



GarveyLives was telling the truth. There was a very long video (may have been YouTube) from Sir Lloyd taking significant umbrage at Blacker. Money handed over and no thanks received, copyright issues, general badness and serious disrespect etc. It's since disappeared so maybe things have cooled down a bit.


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