# HTC Flyer 7" note-taking Android tablet announced



## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

It's here! Android-powered tablet with 7-inch 1024 x 600 resolution Super LCD touch screen, backed by a 1.5GHz Qualcomm MSM8255 Snapdragon single-core processor, 1GB of RAM plus 32GB of flash storage - plus pen input for drawing, notes and sketches.



> HTC Scribe Technology on the HTC Flyer tablet transforms traditional note-taking into smart note-taking by integrating natural onscreen writing with thoughtful and integrated innovations. A feature called Timemark enables you to capture the audio of a meeting in line with your written notes, so tapping on a word in your notes instantly takes you to that exact place in time in the audio recording of the meeting. Notes are also integrated with the calendar so when there is an appointment reminder you are automatically prompted with an opportunity to begin a new note or in the case of recurring meetings, to continue where the last meeting left off. In an industry first, the HTC Flyer tablet also features built-in synchronization with Evernote™, the world-leading notes application and service.



I'm liking the look of this.

http://www.wirefresh.com/htc-flyer-...-looks-to-be-the-ultimate-note-taking-device/


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

I've just watched the video. I'm very impressed. Great size and the pen is great for not taking.


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## kalmatthew (Feb 15, 2011)

Looks intresting, but I cant work out if its a restive touch screen or a stylus for capacitive or if its using the wacom stile digitiser, any guesses?


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 15, 2011)

Looks like a very neat bit of kit. The size looks perfect and the guy doing the demo seemed to be able to be able to comfortably hold it in one hand for a good ten minutes so I'm guessing its pretty light too.

lol @ the geeky sounding guy asking all the questions in his desperation to get information


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

The screen response looked pretty smooth and responsive to finger swiping on the video and the pen input looks fantastic. This is much closer to what I'm looking for in a tablet - small enough to not make me feel like a knob if I'm using it in a cafe, but big enough for web browsing - and with the ability to sketch too.






The official site is here: http://www.htc.com/www/product/flyer/overview.html


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

Nice software there. I think a squarer aspect ratio would help though - seems too narrow in portrait and too short in landscape.


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Nice software there. I think a squarer aspect ratio would help though - seems too narrow in portrait and too short in landscape.


If it went any fatter there'd be no chance of wedging it in a pocket, so I guess it's a fair compromise, I reckon (after all, quite a few notebooks run 1024 x 600 too). There is talk of a 9" model coming up too, but I want something that is easy to hold and small enough to use like a sketchbook I'm out.

The SD slot/removable battery/pen input/screen size sure are ticking my boxes.


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

And those netbooks with 600 vertical pixels are too short as well! So many interface elements are horizontal. I can imagine typing in a browser in landscape on a screen this shape doesn't leave much room for the rest of the page!

But, compromises have to be made as you shrink the screen, so I'm ok with it, really. And it might not be such a problem if this machine has good handwriting recognition.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

Shame it carries on the tablet theme of having a huge bezel.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

If they bring out a 9" version of that I'll be first in the queue.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Shame it carries on the tablet theme of having a huge bezel.


 
Where would you put your thumbs if they weren't there?


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Shame it carries on the tablet theme of having a huge bezel.


 
You need one if you're going to hold it with your hands. Anything wider than a palm-width needs somewhere to put your thumbs.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> You need one if you're going to hold it with your hands. Anything wider than a palm-width needs somewhere to put your thumbs.


 
I'm confident it wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world to code around.

I've got a feeling they are just using the extra space to save on costs.


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I'm confident it wouldn't be the hardest thing in the world to code around.
> 
> I've got a feeling they are just using the extra space to save on costs.


If you've got your thumbs smudging all over a touchscreen while you're using it, you're going to get a very confused machine in your hands.


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

It would be very hard to code around! How do you differentiate a resting thumb from a purposeful touch?


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> It would be very hard to code around! How do you differentiate a resting thumb from a purposeful touch?


 
Time would be the first thing to factor in; you would be holding the tablet longer than a tap takes.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

The next thing to take into consideration would be that your thumbs would only likely be in two areas. These you could make areas that consider the additional rules.


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Time would be the first thing to factor in; you would be hold the tablet longer than a tap takes.


 
This would delay the reaction to any tap near the edges of the screen, while it waits to see if this is a hold or a tap.
Also, tap-hold is a valid and core interaction with Android. Your proposal would disallow any tap-holds on the edges of the screen.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> This would delay the reaction to any tap near the edges of the screen, while it waits to see if this is a hold or a tap.


 
A tap is two things, a contact and a release. A thumb hold would not release for a while whereas the tap would release after a fraction of a second.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

If the release is over 0.45 second then it's a thumb.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> If the release is over 0.45 second then it's a thumb.


 
...or something similar.

I just want a hi res, all screen 7" tablet, with removable battery and memory.

I think I may have to wait a while.


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## Private Storm (Feb 15, 2011)

That's the first tablet that I could possibly justify owning. Everything else so far has been a bit of a frippery.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

Anyone know how/if you could print from it?


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Anyone know how/if you could print from it?


Android does wireless printing - so long as your printer is connected to a network you should be fine.


DrRingDing said:


> The next thing to take into consideration would be that your thumbs would only likely be in two areas. These you could make areas that consider the additional rules.


 What happens if you want to use your thumb to access a menu in the corner?


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## Private Storm (Feb 15, 2011)

Looks like the price will be more than how much iPads are currently (although not sure what version). Still, that might make me reconsider.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> What happens if you want to use your thumb to access a menu in the corner?



Will the corner be in the 'thumb zone'?

If not then as you were. If so, then if would come down to if the contact was a tap or a hold (decided by release time).

Or summit.


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 15, 2011)

Seems like a useful thing to invent would be a strap handle which you could slip a hand under on the back. That way you could hold the device in one hand more securely.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> Android does wireless printing - so long as your printer is connected to a network you should be fine.


 
How does it work? None of the apps (photos, notes etc) seem to have any printing options.

Do you have to download another app/plugin or something?


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

Private Storm said:


> Looks like the price will be more than how much iPads are currently (although not sure what version). Still, that might make me reconsider.


I'd gamble that it won't cost more than an iPad, but it's certainly not going to be a cheapo tablet. There's going to be a cheaper wi-fi only version too.

Bees: here's one way you can print - http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011...droid-to-any-printer-with-google-cloud-print/


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> There's going to be a cheaper wi-fi only version too.


 
This is good, it strikes me as pointless getting a 3G one if you've already got a hotspot creating Android phone...


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## Private Storm (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> I'd gamble that it won't cost more than an iPad, but it's certainly not going to be a cheapo tablet. There's going to be a cheaper wi-fi only version too.



These guys are guessing that it'll be more. But I guess once you're looking at £500+, most people with that spending power are a little price insenstive if you add 20-30% or so

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/38571/htc-flyer-vs-apple-ipad


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> Bees: here's one way you can print - http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2011...droid-to-any-printer-with-google-cloud-print/


 
Either my phone hasn't got the latest version of GMail on it or those instructions are bollocks


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

Private Storm said:


> These guys are guessing that it'll be more. But I guess once you're looking at £500+, most people with that spending power are a little price insenstive if you add 20-30% or so
> 
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/38571/htc-flyer-vs-apple-ipad


This result is a bit controversial!


> *Display*
> 1ST: HTC FLYER7-inch, 1024 x 600, 170ppi
> 2ND: APPLE IPAD9.7", 1024 x 768, 132ppi
> 
> This category turned out a bit of a surprise for us. We were there and ready to hand it over to the iPad for having a bigger screen but the trouble is that, in terms of pixel density, and therefore clarity and punch of what you get, it’s second best. Yes, there’s more real estate for video on the Apple tablet but then you can always hold the HTC Flyer a bit close to your eyes if it bothers you. What you can’t do is improve the detail on the iPad. What’s more, the aspect ratio is much closer to a more widescreen video friendly 16:9 on the Flyer. So, all in all, it’s the HTC tablet with the superior display.


They know as much as we do about the price, so it's all guesswork right now but traditionally HTC have been reasonably affordable. I can't see them pricing it above the iPad myself.


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Either my phone hasn't got the latest version of GMail on it or those instructions are bollocks


Use the web version of GMail on your phone. It's very clever - you'll get a listing of all the connected printers on your network.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> Use the web version of GMail on your phone. It's very clever - you'll get a listing of all the connected printers on your network.


 
But it's awful to use, everything is too small coz it's meant to be on a proper screen


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> But it's awful to use, everything is too small coz it's meant to be on a proper screen


Works fine for me. I just managed to print an email to Em's printer and it came out perfect. It's very, very clever.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> Works fine for me. I just managed to print an email to Em's printer and it came out perfect. It's very, very clever.


 
I meant using the web version of GMail on a phone, rather than the finger optimised version that comes installed.

The link you posted implies there is a print option built into it, if there is I'll be fucked if I can find it


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

Here's the promo. I rather like HTC's promo style.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> Works fine for me. I just managed to print an email to Em's printer and it came out perfect. It's very, very clever.


 
Do I have to have chrome open on the machine I want to print to then?


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## Hocus Eye. (Feb 15, 2011)

All that crap about when is a tap not a tap is irrelevant. I am not in the market for a tablet but if I was, this one has interested me more than the ipad which for me is two square. This one looks fairly holdable in one hand. It is the stylus and note-taking program that really appeals to me. I hope spare pens for it are not too exensive, I lose pens all the time. It looks like a fun thing to have. It needs a stand to prop it up though for watching videos and films. I suppose that could be integrated  into some sort of case for it.


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I meant using the web version of GMail on a phone, rather than the finger optimised version that comes installed.
> 
> The link you posted implies there is a print option built into it, if there is I'll be fucked if I can find it


You have to log in to GMail via the browser. The version of GMail you then see is a mobile optimised one, so the text is completely readable. You have to be using a Chrome browser and have ticked the print option first (as per the instructions). Took me ten seconds to install and then go and impress Eme!


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> All that crap about when is a tap not a tap is irrelevant..



My point is that it could fit in your trouser pocket if it didn't have a whopping great bezel around it.


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> My point is that it could fit in your trouser pocket if it didn't have a whopping great bezel around it.


But it's already been explained to you by several people that it _wouldn't work_ if it didn't have a bezel around it.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> You have to log in to GMail via the browser. The version of GMail you then see is a mobile optimised one, so the text is completely readable. You have to be using a Chrome browser and have ticked the print option first (as per the instructions). Took me ten seconds to install and then go and impress Eme!


 
Hmmm, just tried the mobile version in a browser, it's still horrible compared to the proper app. I assume they'll update it soon to include a print option.

Also - do you need chrome to be open on the machine though, or just simply have the machine switched on?


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

Only touchscreens that can be held between pinky/ring/middle fingers and thumb can go edge to edge. Otherwise you need a place for the thumb.


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Also - do you need chrome to be open on the machine though, or just simply have the machine switched on?


I don't know. It all just worked fine for me.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> I don't know. It all just worked fine for me.


 
Got it working, seems you just have to have the machine running, Chrome doesn't need to be open 

Now, if only Google would pull their fucking fingers out and release a proper GDocs app...


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> But it's already been explained to you by several people that it _wouldn't work_ if it didn't have a bezel around it.



Don't patronise babe, it's not becoming of you.

I'd wager in the next couple of years that the bezel will start to disappear.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Only touchscreens that can be held between pinky/ring/middle fingers and thumb can go edge to edge. Otherwise you need a place for the thumb.


 
If we can program a smartphone in the first place I'm sure we can account for a thumb. _Surely?_


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> If we can program a smartphone in the first place I'm sure we can account for a thumb. _Surely?_


 
Several people have explained why it's not possible. Current touchscreen technology is not sophisticated enough to distinguish between different digits or touch intents.

Books, newspapers and magazines have 2cm/1 inch margins for a very good reason.a


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Several people have explained why it's not possible. Current touchscreen technology is not sophisticated enough to distinguish between differnt digits or touch intents.


 
It's got nowt to do with the touchscreen but to do with what's listening to it and how it interprets it.


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> It's got nowt to do with the touchscreen but to do with what's listening to it and how it interprets it.


 
So how, in software, do you distinguish between a press and hold that is a thumb resting on the edge of the screen, and a press and hold that is a purposeful interaction?


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I'd wager in the next couple of years that the bezel will start to disappear.



Anyone want to put their money where their mouth is?

£10 says....

_"By 15 February 2013 there will be a 7" tablet on the market that will have no bezel for thumbs."_


Thumb goes on, thumb goes off.





No one can explain that.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> So how, in software, do you distinguish between a press and hold that is a thumb resting on the edge of the screen, and a press and hold that is a purposeful interaction?



I refer to my post I made some moments ago.


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I refer to my post I made some moments ago.


 
Which one? Seriously, I'd like to know how you think it could be done - be specific.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Anyone want to put their money where their mouth is?
> 
> £10 says....
> 
> ...


 

Wot no takers?


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Wot no takers?


Don't be ridiculous. You're saying it's possible now, but don't seem able to explain _how._


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> Don't be ridiculous. You're saying it's possible now, but don't seem able to explain _how._


 
I am saying it's possible now and have explained how. 

Are you willing to back up this nae saying with a wager?


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> I am saying it's possible now and have explained how.
> 
> Are you willing to back up this nae saying with a wager?


 Like I said, don't be ridiculous. Just typing out the words that _you_ think it's possible right now, doesn't mean that _it actually is practically possible. _


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

Sorry, in which post did you explain it?

I'll be willing to put a tenner on "In the next 5 years, there will not be a bezel-less tablet device wider than 10cm that can detect unintentional thumbs"

time limit so I have a realistic chance of getting my tenner before either of us gets out of contact, and also to preclude the invention of incredible digit-determining touch sensors.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Anyone want to put their money where their mouth is?
> 
> £10 says....
> 
> ...


 

So, before we go any further, any takers?


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

I'll take your money.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

We have a taker!


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## Hocus Eye. (Feb 15, 2011)

Did I hear the ringding of a till then?


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

We'll have to define 'no bezel' though - every screen has to have some sort of border. Say, 5mm?
Also, the device has to be wide enough to require holding between thumb and forefinger, as opposed in the palm (like a smartphone)


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> We'll have to define 'no bezel' though - every screen has to have some sort of border. Say, 5mm?
> Also, the device has to be wide enough to require holding between thumb and forefinger, as opposed in the palm (like a smartphone)


 
5mm sounds reasonable.

7" diagnonal taking into account you can hold it both in portrait and landscape.


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

*sobs at a thread thoroughly derailed. 

Anyway, the Flyer. It's the best tablet I've seen to date and with CNet giving it a thoroughly guessed estimated price of 499 euros - around £415 - it looks veh attractive indeed.


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

I would rather go on minimum width, as a particularly skinny 7" screen could still be thin enough to hold in the palm. By measuring my hand, 80mm is about as wide as it oculd feasibly be. So anything 80mm or wider, with a 5mm bezel will count.


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I would rather go on minimum width, as a particularly skinny 7" screen could still be thin enough to hold in the palm. By measuring my hand, 80mm is about as wide as it oculd feasibly be. So anything 80mm or wider, with a 5mm bezel will count.


 
The skinniest a tablet will be is 21:9.

What's the width at 7" diagonal?


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## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

7" diagonal screen at 21:9 ratio is 70mm wide, so 80mm with the bezel. deal done. let's let the thread be now


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

(((thread)))


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> My point is that it could fit in your trouser pocket if it didn't have a whopping great bezel around it.


 
I always laugh at this pocket thing, there's no fucking way I'm spending 700 quid on something then just chucking in my pocket!


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> *sobs at a thread thoroughly derailed.
> 
> Anyway, the Flyer. It's the best tablet I've seen to date and with CNet giving it a thoroughly guessed estimated price of 499 euros - around £415 - it looks veh attractive indeed.


 
So it'll be 500 quid then...hmmmm...


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 15, 2011)

I like these specs:






The video makes it look quite cool too, I like the idea of a smaller tablet with has proper note taking and the Evernote syncing suites me right down to the ground as I use that a lot now...


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## DrRingDing (Feb 15, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I always laugh at this pocket thing, there's no fucking way I'm spending 700 quid on something then just chucking in my pocket!


 
Technology should serve not hinder your life IMO.

This is why i usually buy old kit so it can fit into my life rather than the other way around.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 15, 2011)

Said it before but I'm waiting for a very basic phone that can be a wifi router.

Love my Desire HD, but fed up about worrying about batteries, so separating the devices makes sense. A 6" device I can put in a combat pocket would be perfect.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 15, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Technology should serve not hinder your life IMO.
> 
> This is why i usually buy old kit so it can fit into my life rather than the other way around.


 
Er right then. Not sure I get what you mean, it's not a hinder to want to treat the things I buy with some care so they don't get fucked up.


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## stupid dogbot (Feb 15, 2011)

I don't actually know this guy, just following him on twitter, but:



> 2 android tablets in 48hrs both broken, should of bought the iPad



Lol.


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> I don't actually know this guy, just following him on twitter, but:
> 
> 
> 
> Lol.


Yeah, because that must be true and it's extremely relevant to this thread about a tablet that hasn't even been released yet.


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## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

Engadget has another piece on the HTC and an interesting video of the thing in action and it looks great. I'm still pretty much sold in the concept - it's the first proper productivity tablet device I've seen.








> All those logistics aside, the true beauty of a solution like this is how it blends the responsiveness of regular finger input with an extremely accurate inking one. You'd think the screen was your typical capacitive screen, until you put the stylus to it. Unlike capacitive styli, you don't have to press extremely hard or worry about totally missing your on-screen target. And not to worry, N-Trig says the AAAA battery-powered pen battery should last about a year and a half -- so you'll have a bit of time before you have to run out to the drugstore and pick up a new pack of Energizers.



http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/15/a-closer-look-at-the-htc-flyers-screen-and-stylus-aka-htc-scri/


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 15, 2011)

I'm a regular user of the iPad with a stylus and pen-based apps. There are quite a few for the iPad actually - my favourite is Noteshelf, which I use for all sorts of mindmapping and concept sketches and wireframes, because instead of having to scan in a bit of paper I can just throw the output through email or via Dropbox and show it straight to other people. It's way better than the old pixelly Palm drawing apps too, the response is far better (they tend to vary the line width by speed for instance so it's more like using an actual pen), the resolution is much higher and it anti-aliases.

It's still not a solution for everything though. When you're moving around, or just on the tube or the bus, writing with a stylus is a complete pain. I'd rather take the time to enter text in the onscreen keyboard in those situations, which might be less fun but the end results are readable. In fact, this afternoon I was coming back on the tube and trying to make some notes using Noteshelf, gave up and did them in a text-based mindmapper instead.

The time-based sound recording thing that is in the engadget video isn't new, there are quite a few apps which already do that. (In fact there are apps for laptops which do that too which were around well before tablets.) Again, it can be handy, but it's not set the world on fire yet and doubtless won't. Some people find it very useful but I've never *met* one of them IRL.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> Engadget has another piece on the HTC and an interesting video of the thing in action and it looks great. I'm still pretty much sold in the concept - it's the first proper productivity tablet device I've seen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Heh the Courier dream just wont die will it?


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 16, 2011)

I don't like the lag on the writing, it's the thing that's always put me off screen writing, nothing seems to just be like a pen...


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## editor (Feb 16, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh the Courier dream just wont die will it?


Never!


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 16, 2011)

Heh it was a great mock up....


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## cliche guevara (Feb 16, 2011)

If I can pick up a wi-fi only version of this for under £400 I'll be laughing. No need for 3G, I always have my Android phone with me, if that has a 3G connection I can turn it into a hotspot and connect the tablet to it by wi-fi, sorted 

The Motorola Xoom is also getting a wi-fi only version, rumoured to be retailing at around $600, so that wouldn't be a whole heap more for a 10"... still think I prefer 7" but I'll have to go and have a play.


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## editor (Feb 16, 2011)

I'll definitely want to have a go first on any tablet I'm thinking about buying, but I've had a good play on the iPad and know for sure that I don't want something as big and as heavy as that. 

Amazon Germany has posted up a hefty price of €669, but a lot of folks think that's just a 'placeholder' price tag.


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 16, 2011)

Did you see this thing by the way?

http://www.noteslate.com/

I'd not heard about it. It seems to concentrate on stylus drawing type input, with long life e-paper, and not really any other functions. Vapourware at the moment of course.


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## cliche guevara (Feb 16, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Did you see this thing by the way?
> 
> http://www.noteslate.com/
> 
> I'd not heard about it. It seems to concentrate on stylus drawing type input, with long life e-paper, and not really any other functions. Vapourware at the moment of course.



Aesthetically, that's cool as shit. Practically, I can't see anyone dropping that much on a device that doesn't do anything that paper doesn't do, particularly if the Flyer and other tabs get handwriting input (and recognition) correct.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 16, 2011)

Yep, it needs some kind of connectivity if only so you can sync your notes over the air...


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## editor (Feb 17, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Did you see this thing by the way?
> 
> http://www.noteslate.com/
> 
> I'd not heard about it. It seems to concentrate on stylus drawing type input, with long life e-paper, and not really any other functions. Vapourware at the moment of course.


I saw the press release for that and the whiff of vapourware was overwhelming.


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## editor (Mar 4, 2011)

I'm still liking the look of this wee fella. It also has a nifty Palm rejection mode so that you can lean on the screen and still use it for drawing.



> The HTC Flyer will allow users to use a pen for input, also known as a stylus. The issue with this is when your palm touches the capacitive screen while trying to write it throws off the points of contact and it doesn’t work. HTC has introduced Palm-rejection. It is basically the ability of a touchscreen device to ignore the touch of a hand leaning on the screen while a pen or stylus is being used. Officially known as vectoring.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

Apparently HTC have already taken one million orders for this - before any pricing or the official launch date has been announced!

It's looking like they might be on to something here.

http://www.wirefresh.com/htc-flyer-android-tablet-secures-one-million-orders-without-release-date/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 7, 2011)

editor said:


> Apparently HTC have already taken one million orders for this - before any pricing or the official launch date has been announced!


 
One million idiots then.

Seriously, who the hell orders stuff like this without playing with one first, or at least reading a lot of proper reviews?


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> One million idiots then.
> 
> Seriously, who the hell orders stuff like this without playing with one first, or at least reading a lot of proper reviews?


It'll be network carriers and retailers who have pre-ordered the device, and they've presumably already seen the device and based their sales on its abilities and predicted desirability to their customers.


----------



## Private Storm (Mar 7, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> One million idiots then.
> 
> Seriously, who the hell orders stuff like this without playing with one first, or at least reading a lot of proper reviews?


 
It's retailers and network operators, not individuals.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 7, 2011)

Private Storm said:


> It's retailers and network operators, not individuals.


 
Ah...


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## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

Anecdotally, it's also proved to be one of the most popular recent features on wirefresh so there seems to be real public interest in this form factor.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2011)

That video was crap, seriously this things USP is the fucking stylus so stop faffing around and show some pen action ffs!


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 8, 2011)

What do people think this is *worth*? If you can get an iPad1 for £329, and an iPad2 for a hundred more....I don't think I would pay more than £350.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 8, 2011)

It needs to come in at £300.

It won't.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> What do people think this is *worth*? If you can get an iPad1 for £329, and an iPad2 for a hundred more....I don't think I would pay more than £350.


It's not really directly comparable to the iPad, but if it delivers on its feature set then I might be interested up to that amount, perhaps a little more if I find that it proves to be a generally productive tool. 

But I still need to convinced by the whole tablet thing.


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## Sunray (Mar 8, 2011)

Even at 300 quid, with Android 2.3 and the lack of a decent set of applications for it, it will be a browser and a note taker and that's about it.  

Buy a pen and a pad and use your HTC.  That will save you what ever this costs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> What do people think this is *worth*? If you can get an iPad1 for £329, and an iPad2 for a hundred more....I don't think I would pay more than £350.


 
It'd have to be something like 299 for me but can't see that. Reckon they'll sell it for 399 or maybe 449...


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Even at 300 quid, with Android 2.3 and the lack of a decent set of applications for it, it will be a browser and a note taker and that's about it.


What do you think over a million orders have gone in for this already? Could it be - just perhaps - that you're _entirely missing the point?_


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 8, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Even at 300 quid, with Android 2.3 and the lack of a decent set of applications for it, it will be a browser and a note taker and that's about it.
> 
> Buy a pen and a pad and use your HTC.  That will save you what ever this costs.


 
What's wrong with using phone apps until dedicated apps come out for it?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 8, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It'd have to be something like 299 for me but can't see that. Reckon they'll sell it for 399 or maybe 449...


 
Seeing as a Desire HD is £350 to £400 unlocked I can't see it either. It can't save that much to leave the radio out of it.


----------



## aspirationjones (Mar 8, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Did you see this thing by the way?
> 
> http://www.noteslate.com/
> 
> I'd not heard about it. It seems to concentrate on stylus drawing type input, with long life e-paper, and not really any other functions. Vapourware at the moment of course.


 


cliche guevara said:


> Aesthetically, that's cool as shit. Practically, I can't see anyone dropping that much on a device that doesn't do anything that paper doesn't do, particularly if the Flyer and other tabs get handwriting input (and recognition) correct.


 


Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, it needs some kind of connectivity if only so you can sync your notes over the air...



I read somewhere that the 2nd and 3rd versions of this are supposed to deliver theses kinds of things:
"Its initial release will be the bare-bones note taker, but it’ll be an open-sourced bare-bones note taker. Version 1.5 plans for PDF and text viewing capabilities, with version 2 incorporating OCR handwriting-to-text. Once this happens, it may really carve out a niche in the student demographic."

The first version seems like it'll get attention, assuming it is any good and then later versions will interest a wider audience.

V1 seems similar to that BoogieBoard thing, which is half the price. http://www.myboogieboard.com/ This would be great for kids or simply to replace the notepad for shopping lists - but who can really be arsed with that?

If you can't export from it (the noteslate) or hook up a keyboard or sync it it is very much an island amidst plenty of other stand alone devices that have fallen by the wayside.
They hope to expand on it though and if they do deliver on their promises of OCR and being able to export handwriting files to my laptop somehow (so I can type up and edit first draft into 2nd draft) I'll buy one.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 8, 2011)

editor said:


> What do you think over a million orders have gone in for this already? Could it be - just perhaps - that you're _entirely missing the point?_


 
I keep being accused of this but I see no clear 'point' and obvious future for these devices until they become considerably cheaper and considerably more functional than they are. They are expensive devices so I can reasonably expect them to do more than sweet naff all.  The days of being impressed with a fully functional web browser have gone.


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## Crispy (Mar 8, 2011)

Why on earth are they selling then?


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## editor (Mar 8, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I keep being accused of this but I see no clear 'point' and obvious future for these devices until they become considerably cheaper and considerably more functional than they are. They are expensive devices so I can reasonably expect them to do more than sweet naff all.  The days of being impressed with a fully functional web browser have gone.


But - for me - the likelihood of being impressed with a small, pocketable and hugely capable tablet that comes with a decent stylus for drawing, sketching and making notes remains rather high. Just because you don't get it, don't think you can speak for anyone else or understand their needs. I'd take a HTC Flyer over an iPad* any day and I guess I'm not alone in thinking that.

(*or similar sized tablet without stylus input)


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I keep being accused of this but I see no clear 'point' and obvious future for these devices until they become considerably cheaper and considerably more functional than they are.


How much more functional can the thing be?



> HTC Flyer Main Features:
> 7 inch touch-sensitive TFT screen with 1024 X 600 resolution and stylus support
> Google Android 2.4 Gingerbread OS (upgrade to Android 3.0 Honeycomb coming later)
> HTC Sense UI overlay
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Seeing as a Desire HD is £350 to £400 unlocked I can't see it either. It can't save that much to leave the radio out of it.


 
Indeed. Thinking about it I wouldn't be surprised if this goes for closer to 499...Apple have really got these droid tablet makers over a barrel. Go too low in spec and the device loses the slickness people expect, go too high and they lose out on price.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 8, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I keep being accused of this but I see no clear 'point' and obvious future for these devices until they become considerably cheaper and considerably more functional than they are. They are expensive devices so I can reasonably expect them to do more than sweet naff all.


 
And _still_ you miss the point.

An example - My Mum wouldn't have a "computer" in her front room. She would have an iPad.


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## Crispy (Mar 8, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> And _still_ you miss the point.
> 
> An example - My Mum wouldn't have a "computer" in her front room. She would have an iPad.


 
My mum just got an iphone. She "got it" immediately and now she wants an ipad. She already has a laptop, but it will never leave her desk or her work bag. Tab;ets aren't 'computers' as people normally think of them and therefore they don't judge them as computers, like Sunray does.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2011)

Crispy said:


> My mum just got an iphone. She "got it" immediately and now she wants an ipad. She already has a laptop, but it will never leave her desk or her work bag. Tab;ets aren't 'computers' as people normally think of them and therefore they don't judge them as computers, like Sunray does.


 
My my has a laptop, and text me yesterday to tell me she's now on Twitter. Some parents are


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 8, 2011)

My mum has been happily preparing artwork for print on PC for 15 years yet still can't send a text message.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2011)

Crispy said:


> My mum just got an iphone. She "got it" immediately and now she wants an ipad. She already has a laptop, but it will never leave her desk or her work bag. Tab;ets aren't 'computers' as people normally think of them and therefore they don't judge them as computers, like Sunray does.


My mum used computers in work decades ago but I've failed miserably to persuade her to use a laptop or desktop PC now. My best bet would be an iPad but they're just too damn expensive.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2011)

editor said:


> My mum used computers in work decades ago but I've failed miserably to persuade her to use a laptop or desktop PC now. My best bet would be an iPad but they're just too damn expensive.


 
You can get iPad 1/wifi/16gig for just over 300 quid...


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You can get iPad 1/wifi/16gig for just over 300 quid...


That's still too much to gamble on something she may not end up using. There's no wi-fi in the house either.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 8, 2011)

Crispy said:


> My mum just got an iphone. She "got it" immediately and now she wants an ipad. She already has a laptop, but it will never leave her desk or her work bag. Tab;ets aren't 'computers' as people normally think of them and therefore they don't judge them as computers, like Sunray does.


 
The whole "expect them to do more" argument is bollocks as well. To continue with the Mum example - As far as she is concerned, a PC is for checking email, booking cheap holidays and reading genealogy websites. That's it. 

So, I could recommend an ugly netbook that would be forever relegated to the spare room, or an iPad/other tablet that would sit on the coffee table and get good use, with the possibility of a few decent apps opening up the idea that maybe the internet has slightly more to offer...


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2011)

All my Mum would want a tablet (or a laptop) for is web browsing, email and looking at pictures (and transferring them off her camera, so a SD slot would be very handy). That is it. No interest in games, clever apps or anything else, so there's a good chance one of the cheapo Android tablets coming up may do the job just fine (although I suspect she won't like the touchscreen keyboard).


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2011)

editor said:


> That's still too much to gamble on something she may not end up using. There's no wi-fi in the house either.


 
Ah that's a bit of a snag!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 8, 2011)

Routers aren't expensive or is that there is no broadband to plug it into?


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## editor (Mar 9, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Routers aren't expensive or is that there is no broadband to plug it into?


She only has a phone line so no broadband.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 9, 2011)

Sounds like a real computer would be more appropriate. That is if she wants one.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2011)

Any news on this?


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## editor (Apr 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Any news on this?


It will get an Honeycomb 3.0 upgrade and release is still set for Q2.

Here's a new, extended promo video:


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## mwgdrwg (Apr 7, 2011)

Any more news on the cost?


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## editor (Apr 11, 2011)

Bah! http://www.wirefresh.com/htc-flyer-priced-for-the-uk-and-its-too-damn-pricey/

I'm guessing the Wi-Fi version will be cheaper - in fact, I'm pretty sure the price will come down overall, but at the moment it's priced ridiculously high so, in the words of the Dragons' Den - I'm out.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 11, 2011)

600 quid?!


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## editor (Apr 11, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 600 quid?!


It's crazily priced, but I reckon it'll come down in price pretty damn sharpish.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Apr 11, 2011)

> I keep being accused of this but I see no clear 'point' and obvious future for these devices until they become considerably cheaper and considerably more functional than they are. They are expensive devices so I can reasonably expect them to do more than sweet naff all. The days of being impressed with a fully functional web browser have gone.



I agree.  Thing is, I _need_ my phone and _need_ my laptop.  I'd like a tablet, but coz I don't need it, I'm looking at whats out there right now and what's about to come out and I think I'll wait a few months, maybe a year, 'til the price comes down and they get a bit better.   I don't think I'm the only one either. 

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-19736_7-20041557-251.html

My brother has ordered an ipad 2, will see what it's like but it's still 'too big' for me. I can't spare the handcarrying space or weight.  If it's any bigger or heavier than a Kindle, it's too big, really.

£600 though, they are srsly having a laugh.  I reckon in a couple of years you'l be able to pick these things up for less than £200


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 11, 2011)

editor said:


> It's crazily priced, but I reckon it'll come down in price pretty damn sharpish.


 
It really is. They better get the pricey down, this is the type of device the tablet market really needs to distinguish it from the iPad vs iPad killer dynamic currently at work...


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## editor (Apr 11, 2011)

If it works as advertised, I'd probably go to around £300 Wi-Fi only version (or £350  if I _really_ liked the tablet). But £600? No chance.


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## Corax (Apr 11, 2011)

Crispy said:


> And those netbooks with 600 vertical pixels are too short as well! So many interface elements are horizontal. I can imagine typing in a browser in landscape on a screen this shape doesn't leave much room for the rest of the page!
> 
> But, compromises have to be made as you shrink the screen, so I'm ok with it, really. And it might not be such a problem if this machine has* good handwriting recognition.*


 
In the first video posted I thought the salesman said that it *didn't do* handwriting recognition - which struck me as a bit odd.

Mind you, he was a crap salesman/demonstrator anyway.   _"Can you show me x?"  "Wait wait wait, I just want to show you this..."_


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 11, 2011)

600 quid? 

FFS, these companies just don't get it, do they?

The only area they can compete with Apple is price, if they can't or won't do so then they might as well give up.


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## Sunray (Apr 11, 2011)

And iPads are too expensive. 

This is running v2.4 of Android.  v2.4 exists nowhere else but on that tablet, because its been customised for Sense.  This means that HTC are gunning to have this as a Sense tablet and Google will not let v3.0 of Android be customised like that.   I see that as a potential train wreck of a tablet.

I can't see if its got Android Market access.


----------



## editor (Apr 11, 2011)

Sunray said:


> This is running v2.4 of Android.  v2.4 exists nowhere else but on that tablet, because its been customised for Sense.  This means that HTC are gunning to have this as a Sense tablet and Google will not let v3.0 of Android be customised like that.   I see that as a potential train wreck of a tablet.
> 
> I can't see if its got Android Market access.


HTC have already said that it will be upgraded to 3.0 in the future. I see nothing to suggest that this will be a "train wreck" of a tablet.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 11, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> 600 quid?
> 
> FFS, these companies just don't get it, do they?
> 
> The only area they can compete with Apple is price, if they can't or won't do so then they might as well give up.


 
Yup thats basically it...


----------



## Sunray (Apr 12, 2011)

editor said:


> HTC have already said that it will be upgraded to 3.0 *in the future*. I see nothing to suggest that this will be a "train wreck" of a tablet.


 
When?  This has been one of the salient points with regard to Android and why Google want more control over the platform.  

You go buy one if you think its a winner.  I see a bodge, with that pen interface, v3.0 will require sense to have the extras they have added to support it. I'm of the understanding that Google are resisting people messing with v3.0 to ensure a more consistent interface and allow a smoother upgrade path for users.


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2011)

Sunray said:


> You go buy one if you think its a winner.  I see a bodge, with that pen interface, v3.0 will require sense to have the extras they have added to support it. I'm of the understanding that Google are resisting people messing with v3.0 to ensure a more consistent interface and allow a smoother upgrade path for users.


The bit that you *ALWAYS* fail to grasp - time and time again - is that people have different preferences and technical requirements  to you, and what you dismiss as a "train wreck" could well be the perfect device for someone else.

Not everyone thinks the same and not everyone wants the same things. I'd *love* a device that isn't as hefty as an iPad and lets me sketch with a proper stylus, but I'm not sure that the HTC Flyer is the one for me. Definitely not at £599, at least.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 12, 2011)

editor said:


> The bit that you *ALWAYS* fail to grasp - time and time again - is that people have different preferences and technical requirements  to you, and what you dismiss as a "train wreck" could well be the perfect device for someone else.


 
Mate, you're just as guilty of that.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 12, 2011)

editor said:


> The bit that you *ALWAYS* fail to grasp - time and time again - is that people have different preferences and technical requirements  to you, and what you dismiss as a "train wreck" could well be the perfect device for someone else.
> 
> Not everyone thinks the same and not everyone wants the same things. I'd *love* a device that isn't as hefty as an iPad and lets me sketch with a proper stylus, but I'm not sure that the HTC Flyer is the one for me. Definitely not at £599, at least.



If people want crappy hardware if they think it suits them thats totally fine, but it does not detract from it being crappy hardware.


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Mate, you're just as guilty of that.


So I'm sure you'll have no problem recalling some examples where I've entirely dismissed something as being a "train wreck" (or similar) just because it doesn't suit my needs, yes? 


Sunray said:


> If people want crappy hardware if they think it suits them thats totally fine, but it does not detract from it being crappy hardware.


Most people don't give a flying fuck if it's made of "crappy hardware" or not - all they care about is: does the job well enough at the budget they've set. Oh, and there's nothing 'crappy' about the Flyers hardware at all. It may be a tad underpowered compared to the very latest models, but it I fail to see how its feature set can be dismissed as 'crappy'. Perhaps you could elaborate?


----------



## elbows (Apr 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Mate, you're just as guilty of that.


 
No way, editor is nothing like Sunray when it comes to confusing your own expectations with how the rest of the world should think. Indeed editor is usually quite careful to talk about, for example, reasons why the iPad isnt for him, in very personal terms, rather than writing off a whole class of devices as crap just because they dont suit him. Sunray on the otherhand will dismiss whole classes of devices just because the grunt under the hood isnt comparable to a full laptop, which is a very narrow and shortsighted stance to take, especially in 2011.

As for the dodgy pricing of this HTC Flyer, the problem is that people keep saying that these Apple competitors need to compete on price, when actually its clear that they cant. Why would they even bother making the device and trying to flog millions of them if they cant make a sensible profit per unit? I have suggested that if HP want their Palm investment to yield fruit, they might want to consider selling it at a loss to try to get market share, but this is because they have a platform of their own that they need to make viable over the medium and long-term, and cant expect android tablet manufacturers to have quite the same attitude to the platform they are using.


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2011)

elbows said:


> No way, editor is nothing like Sunray when it comes to confusing your own expectations with how the rest of the world should think. Indeed editor is usually quite careful to talk about, for example, reasons why the iPad isnt for him, in very personal terms, rather than writing off a whole class of devices as crap just because they dont suit him. Sunray on the otherhand will dismiss whole classes of devices just because the grunt under the hood isnt comparable to a full laptop, which is a very narrow and shortsighted stance to take, especially in 2011.


Indeed. I've repeatedly praised the abilities of, for example, both the iPhone and iPad, but added the reasons why those devices aren't for me. 

In contrast, Sunray will just completely dismiss something out of hand as crap if he can't find a use for it in his life or understand why anyone else might.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 12, 2011)

editor said:


> So I'm sure you'll have no problem recalling some examples where I've entirely dismissed something as being a "train wreck" (or similar) just because it doesn't suit my needs, yes?
> Most people don't give a flying fuck if it's made of "crappy hardware" or not - all they care about is: does the job well enough at the budget they've set. Oh, and there's nothing 'crappy' about the Flyers hardware at all. It may be a tad underpowered compared to the very latest models, but it I fail to see how its feature set can be dismissed as 'crappy'. Perhaps you could elaborate?


 
Let's not move the goal posts eh? But yeah there are examples, when I have the money I'll hire a research assistant to trawl through your posts for you.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 12, 2011)

editor said:


> Indeed. I've repeatedly praised the abilities of, for example, both the iPhone and iPad, but added the reasons why those devices aren't for me.
> 
> In contrast, Sunray will just completely dismiss something out of hand as crap if he can't find a use for it in his life or understand why anyone else might.



I dismiss it as crap because I see crap hardware as crap hardware, nothing to do with my personal preference. The unknown version of Android 2.4? and the unique to HTC sense UI for that pen. Sense has been a stumbling block to the slow upgrade path of Android on their phones.  I can see this still being an issue for this version of Android.  What version 2.4 issues will cause in applications is anyones guess. Is the pen integrated into 3rd party applications, assuming that the Market Place is even installed on 2.4 to allow 3rd party applications.

I look on to see if v3.0 android is allowed to be customised with a Sense UI like the previous versions, is anyone's guess.  If not then if you upgrade you'll be left with an OS that doesn't support the pen properly.

These are the reasons I wouldn't touch this tablet and the 600 quid price really doesn't help matters.


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I dismiss it as crap because I see crap hardware as crap hardware, nothing to do with my personal preference. The unknown version of Android 2.4? and the unique to HTC sense UI for that pen. Sense has been a stumbling block to the slow upgrade path of Android on their phones.


HTC Sense is anything but crap and I'm still struggling to see what is so "crap" about the hardware.


----------



## Corax (Apr 12, 2011)

The one thing I don't get about *all* of these devices is why they don't have phone capability.  It would be so simple to add in, it could be linked to your pre-existing network and account, headphone and mike jack and lead, voila.

Except I guess that converging the two would decrease their profits, so maybe I do 'get' it.

Oh, and why the fuck don't they put a bloody flash on them too.


----------



## elbows (Apr 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Let's not move the goal posts eh? But yeah there are examples, when I have the money I'll hire a research assistant to trawl through your posts for you.


 
Im not going to spend any time researching the past,but I'll tell you briefly what my memory of recent years here tells me. Editor, like a large number of humans around the world, struggled somewhat in the very early days of both the iphone and the ipad, to imagine that the couple of sleek advantages of apples devices would be attractive enough to set the world on fire despite the rather obvious set of omissions, missing features which we were in a number of cases completely used to seeing, and could hardly believe could be missing from a modern device without making the device an unattractive fail. But as it happens, the stuff Apple did well was enough to make these devices a roaring success, to the extent that many people who still dont want an apple device themselves, can at least see why so many have found them an attractive technology to use in their daily lives.

Now editor, again like many other humans, may not notice themselves making abrupt adjustments to their stance over time, rather the whole thing tends to feel like its evolved gradually in a way that has the internal appearance of consistency. An outside observer who is actively looking for inconsistencies or obvious defensive denials in someone else, will not have the same obstacles obstructing their view, and may notice some rough edges or partial u-turns here and there. 

This is all pretty normal, nothing that requires defending or attacking, the key is whether a persons opinion moves with the times or whether they cling to a hopelessly outdated stance for way too long, or remain completely oblivious to the merits of devices that have already proven that quite a lot of humans really like them.

Now in the case of editor there are other issues to do with Apple, their brand, the image they project, the level of control they like to maintain, and some of their marketing and retail launch behaviour. I dont think its controversial to say that editor has strong views on some of these things, which means he is likely to mention them here when the opportunity arises, and also means that a number of people are going to notice this and comment, and it all descends into the sort of awkward moment we have had on this forum a number of times in the last few years. The last time I noticed this happening was quite some weeks ago now, and on that subject I would like to turn my attention away from editor and towards you. Correct me if I am wrong, but since the last apple argument we had here, I have detected possible signs that you made a decision to start fighting this battle in a new way. Taking a pop at editor still features in this, but you've also been attempting a more sophisticated approach towards addressing a perceived imbalance in how Apple and its competitiors are covered in this forum. eg starting posts about news which says something negative about a particular android device or the platform in general.

Anyway the above is not a criticism, for I clearly have plenty of opinions on these matters myself and will reflect these opinions in a manner of different ways, including sometimes having a go at editor. But as I have perceived that since the last blowup editor has taken a step back from the front line on this issue, and you seem to have taken a step forward,I could not resist mentioning it now that the right opportunity has arisen. And I hope I have reduced the chances of offending everyone because its quite likely that Im the one who comes out of this looking like a very weird geek, rather than the people I am commenting on, what form of sick and pointless cyber anthropology am I wastefully indulging in here? What is my major malfuction? Whatever it is, nether Apple or Google are going to fix it to me, and perhaps the appropriate multitouch gesture for correct operation of the elbowtron would be the 'zip my cakehole' gesture, for maximum user satisfaction every time


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2011)

elbows said:


> Now editor, again like many other humans, may not notice themselves making abrupt adjustments to their stance over time, rather the whole thing tends to feel like its evolved gradually in a way that has the internal appearance of consistency. An outside observer who is actively looking for inconsistencies or obvious defensive denials in someone else, will not have the same obstacles obstructing their view, and may notice some rough edges or partial u-turns here and there.


I really don't think it's very productive to make this thread all about me, but for the record: I wasn't that impressed with the very first iPhone - mainly because it lacked really basic, essential (for me)  functions like copy and paste.

However, as the phone evolved and improved, I changed my opinion. In fact, for some time, I was describing it as the best smartphone available and went out and even bought one.

In the end, I grew tired of Apple's controlling approach and moved to what I felt was a more suitable platform for me, but you'll never find a post from me trashing the iPhone 4. It's a great phone. I've said the same about the iPad too, and I think it was only a few weeks ago that I was continuing to post up saying that it was the best tablet currently available (although it doesn't suit my needs at all, so I won't be getting one).

Can we get back to talking about the HTC Flyer now, please?


----------



## magneze (Apr 12, 2011)

Good post elbows.


----------



## elbows (Apr 12, 2011)

editor said:


> Can we get back to talking about the HTC Flyer now, please?


 
Certainly, well sort of...

Thanks for your thoughts, your explanation of your evolving attitude mirrors my memory of things reasonably well, although I think you were probably slightly harder on the iphone 4 and ipad at their launch than you suggest here, I am well aware and appreciative of your balanced attitude towards such devices these days.

I only wish that I had been able to take a similar journey when it comes to my thoughts on android tablets. They've done an impressive job when it comes to phones, but the tablet thing was always likely to be tricky and we are repeatedly seeing problems with price this year. I hope there is some room for improvement here, but if not then android tablets are going to have to try to come up with something amazing that they can do that the ipad cant, something people will pay a premium for. Im not sure what that could be, but so far the well established theoretical advantages of a more open system like Android, and the presence of certain ports & memory readers that apple dont provide, dont seem quite enough to justify the price. How many of these HTC Flyers are going to get sold, who would be the most likely potential market right now?


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2011)

elbows said:


> How many of these HTC Flyers are going to get sold, who would be the most likely potential market right now?


Well, they shifted a million in pre-orders last month so it's anything but a flop!


----------



## elbows (Apr 12, 2011)

Well thats good news. Maybe the smaller size and the pen is enough to find a decent number of customers, in which case good, as Im a fan of a variety of tablet concepts in general.

I wonder what its like to work at Microsoft, delivering ostensibly similar technologies years earlier that were doomed never to escape a limited niche because they sucked in multiple ways. And then see other companies come along years later and do it so much better. lols.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Apr 13, 2011)

Corax said:


> The one thing I don't get about *all* of these devices is why they don't have phone capability.  It would be so simple to add in, it could be linked to your pre-existing network and account, headphone and mike jack and lead, voila.
> 
> Except I guess that converging the two would decrease their profits, so maybe I do 'get' it.
> 
> Oh, and why the fuck don't they put a bloody flash on them too.



Kind of like a modern version of the massive Trigger Happy TV phone?


----------



## editor (Apr 13, 2011)

elbows said:


> Well thats good news. Maybe the smaller size and the pen is enough to find a decent number of customers, in which case good, as Im a fan of a variety of tablet concepts in general.
> 
> I wonder what its like to work at Microsoft, delivering ostensibly similar technologies years earlier that were doomed never to escape a limited niche because they sucked in multiple ways. And then see other companies come along years later and do it so much better. lols.


If I'd worked on the cruelly abandoned Courier project, I'd have probably gone on a killing spree.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 13, 2011)

editor said:


> If I'd worked on the cruelly abandoned Courier project, I'd have probably gone on a killing spree.


 
This. /\/\


----------



## Corax (Apr 13, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> Kind of like a modern version of the massive Trigger Happy TV phone?


 


No, clearly holding it up to your ear would look daft.  But bundle it with a wireless earpiece and mic... why on earth not?


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 24, 2011)

It's available for pre-order at Best buy in the US for $499. So possible £349 price tag over here? That would be a decent price point I think, if it's over £400 it will kill it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 24, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> It's available for pre-order at Best buy in the US for $499. So possible £349 price tag over here? That would be a decent price point I think, if it's over £400 it will kill it.


 
How often do we see anything other than a pound for dollar conversion on these things?


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How often do we see anything other than a pound for dollar conversion on these things?


An unlikely straight conversion would put it at a very attractive £301. I reckon it'll be £379.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 25, 2011)

I'd be surprised if it was less than 400 quid tbh...


----------



## editor (Apr 25, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'd be surprised if it was less than 400 quid tbh...


I'm going for an optimistic wild guess based on nothing more than liking the look of the numbers.


----------



## cliche guevara (Apr 25, 2011)

The straight conversion figure would have to have VAT added wouldn;t it? So that's £360 already, I think £379 would be optimistic and £399 more likely, although I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they kill it by putting it at +£400.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 25, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> The straight conversion figure would have to have VAT added wouldn;t it? So that's £360 already, I think £379 would be optimistic and £399 more likely, although I wouldn't be hugely surprised if they kill it by putting it at +£400.


 
Yep I can see this being 499...


----------



## editor (May 12, 2011)

First UK review in and it's pretty enthusiastic:


> If you’re already a HTC Sense user then you’re going to love it. It is like HTC has taken your phone and supersized it, literally, bringing you a stack of new features all around the same core experience that you know and love. The HTC Sense users we’ve shown it to have all got very excited and no one so far has had anything bad to say about the Flyer, even when we mention the pen.
> 
> It’s a well polished, well built tablet. HTC has been clever here. This is a tablet for those that don’t necessarily want the latest features of Android, want the experience their HTC phone gives them, but essentially want something that will work, work well, and ultimately be familiar to those who have bought into the HTC lifestyle already.
> 
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/5407/htc-flyer-android-tablet-review


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## Kid_Eternity (May 13, 2011)

editor said:


> An unlikely straight conversion would put it at a very attractive £301. I reckon it'll be £379.


 


Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep I can see this being 499...



Priced at 480 and 600 quid for the wifi only and 3g versions respectively. Looks the near dollar to pound conversion theory still holds...



> The day every fan of 7-inch Android tablets has been waiting for has finally arrived. HTC has just announced widespread availability across Europe of its 1.5GHz Flyer. Pricing is set at £600 / €649 for the 3G-equipped 32GB variant or £480 / €499 for the one with only WiFi and 16GB on board -- though local carriers are offering subsidized pricing as low as £129 on contract. The contentious capacitive stylus, now dubbed the Magic Pen, will be shipping in each and every box, so you don't have to worry about ponying up extra for it. The HTC store linked below still offers only pre-orders, but HTC promises that there will be aluminum unibodies hitting shelves today.


----------



## elbows (May 13, 2011)

THats just too expensive for a 7" device


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 13, 2011)

elbows said:


> THats just too expensive for a 7" device


 
It's too expense for a 7 inch device with specs like that.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 13, 2011)

Ridiculously expensive.


----------



## Macabre (May 13, 2011)

I'm seriously considering getting one of the budget 7" adroids tablets that are knocking about the internet, with the Flyer I wouldn't feel comfortable carrying something that expensive around with me.

http://www.kogan.co.uk/shop/7-inch-tablet-pc-android/







The Kogan Agora 7" Tablet PC Features:
• Android 2.3 Operating System
• Android Market with Thousands of Apps & Games (inc. Facebook, Twitter, YouTube)
• Built in Wi-Fi
• Read & Write emails with the Gmail or Email app
• Supports 720p HD Playback
• HDMI® video output
• 1 x USB
• 1 x microSD Slot
• Desktop Widgets inc. Weather, Calendar, Clock, YouTube
• Media Player - Watch Movies, Listen to Music, Browse Photos

For £100 it will do pretty much all I want from it and it's no big deal if I sit on it or something.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2011)

Macabre said:


> For £100 it will do pretty much all I want from it and it's no big deal if I sit on it or something.


Looks like it does the job just fine but the battery life is pretty awful at just 3.5hrs http://www.news.com.au/technology/t...nt-cost-you-much/story-fn6vigfp-1226042230519


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 13, 2011)

What's the battery life like on that?


----------



## editor (May 13, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Priced at 480 and 600 quid for the wifi only and 3g versions respectively. Looks the near dollar to pound conversion theory still holds...


I like the Flyer. But not _that_ much.


----------



## Macabre (May 13, 2011)

editor said:


> Looks like it does the job just fine but the battery life is pretty awful at just 3.5hrs http://www.news.com.au/technology/t...nt-cost-you-much/story-fn6vigfp-1226042230519




True, but when I think of the amount of time I spend on my phone performing tasks I'd do on the tablet I'm not sure I'd use it for longer than that.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2011)

Macabre said:


> True, but when I think of the amount of time I spend on my phone performing tasks I'd do on the tablet I'm not sure I'd use it for longer than that.


Might be worth buying a cheapo charger for the living room to get the pup charged up.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 13, 2011)

3.5 hours is terrible for a tablet imo, you need at least 5 for it's mobility to mean anything...


----------



## Crispy (May 13, 2011)

I bet it's got horrible standby as well. Really, for £100 you're not going to get anything decent.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 3.5 hours is terrible for a tablet imo, you need at least 5 for it's mobility to mean anything...


Not if you're just using it in your front room and you're sat right next to a power socket. Quite a few iPad owners never take the things out of the house.


----------



## Crispy (May 13, 2011)

Mine rarely leaves the house, but I'd hate having to always sit in the same seat to use it. Kind of defeats the purpose


----------



## editor (May 13, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Mine rarely leaves the house, but I'd hate having to always sit in the same seat to use it. Kind of defeats the purpose


Err, I don't think a 3.5 hour battery life means that you are glued to your seat, unable to move at all! 

If I had a tablet - iPad or whatever - I very much doubt if I'd get round to using it for over three hours in one day, to be honest.  But this is all about cost: of course, the iPad is miles better, but it's also fucking expensive. And big.


----------



## Macabre (May 13, 2011)

I know its not going to be great, it's basically a big Desire, but for a cheapo commuting toy that can easily be charged at home and work, that I won't loose any sleep over loosing/breaking, I think its alright.  My primary home computer is a 13" laptop so I dont see it replacing it while I'm there, its more of an on-the-go plaything for when I want a bigger screen than my phone.

E2A: Also, the low battery life is with full screen brightness.  Commenters say they get 4-5 with reduced brightness.


----------



## Crispy (May 13, 2011)

editor said:


> Err, I don't think a 3.5 hour battery life means that you are glued to your seat, unable to move at all!
> 
> If I had a tablet - iPad or whatever - I very much doubt if I'd get round to using it for over three hours in one day, to be honest.  But this is all about cost: of course, the iPad is miles better, but it's also fucking expensive. And big.


 
Regardless of the ipad's expense and size, I carry it all round the house and that short battery life would be a hinderance. If the standby time is equally poor, then you can't just leave it where you last used it - it has to return to the power supply every time.

But if you're going in with eyes open and are aware of the shortcomings, then that's fine


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 13, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Mine rarely leaves the house, but I'd hate having to always sit in the same seat to use it. Kind of defeats the purpose


 
The whole point of 7 inchers is they are easier to lug about, plus the whole point of cheap ones is you don't mind taking them everywhere. No road warrior is going to be happy with a pitiful 3.5 hours. But as you say, even in house use you don't want to be stuck every few hours charging the damn thing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 13, 2011)

Macabre said:


> I know its not going to be great, it's basically a big Desire, but for a cheapo commuting toy that can easily be charged at home and work, that I won't loose any sleep over loosing/breaking, I think its alright.  My primary home computer is a 13" laptop so I dont see it replacing it while I'm there, its more of an on-the-go plaything for when I want a bigger screen than my phone.
> 
> E2A: Also, the low battery life is with full screen brightness.  Commenters say they get 4-5 with reduced brightness.



What's the battery like for surfing heavy websites, playing music or watching films?


----------



## Macabre (May 13, 2011)

Video reviews say they can get 4-5 hours after watching a movie then intensive surfing, they all say it's good for the price, which means meh.  I've just noticed that Amazon are releasing something similar so I'm going to wait to see what spec they come out with.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 13, 2011)

Macabre said:


> Video reviews say they can get 4-5 hours after watching a movie then intensive surfing, they all say it's good for the price, which means meh.  I've just noticed that Amazon are releasing something similar so I'm going to wait to see what spec they come out with.


 
That actually isn't too bad, like I said IMO 5 hours is really the number these devices should have as a min but just under with a seriously low price point might be worth a punt for your average gadget consumer...


----------



## Macabre (May 13, 2011)

Yeah, but my worry is that if the battery life isn't that long out the box then it will only get worse with time.  I doubt I'd ever use it for more than an hour at a time, like Crispy says, its more standby time I'm concerned with.  If I'm only going to use it for ~3 hours a day I'd like it to go the whole day without recharging.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 14, 2011)

The HTC Flyer doesn't get a glowing review here...


----------



## editor (May 16, 2011)

Engadget have just posted up a lengthy review and it's pretty much very positive indeed. 

The battery was described as "spectacular" and the screen "very, very good."



> The HTC Flyer is the result of a well thought-out and executed plan by HTC. It is truly differentiated from the Android tablet pack with its robust aluminum construction, Magic Pen inclusion, and more responsive interface, and aside from a few imperfections and a general immaturity of tablet-specific software, it's as competently designed a tablet as we've yet seen. Its 7-inch display is a beauty to behold and, though it may be encased in a somewhat bulky body, its size strikes the right balance between portability and utility. The real issue holding the Flyer from a successful launch, in our opinion, will be its pricing.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/16/htc-flyer-review/


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## Kid_Eternity (May 16, 2011)

Good device shame about price?


----------



## editor (May 16, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Good device shame about price?


I think it's more a case of "great idea, pretty good device but awful price."


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2011)

Thanks to some pretty amazing service from HTC (in response to this article), I now have a HTC Flyer on two weeks loan.  

I didn't think it was the tablet when it arrived because the box looked too small!


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2011)

I took it to the cafe for a play and it attracted quite a lot of attention. The person next to me really, really liked the size of the thing (she said that her iPad is just too big to take out) and most people seemed very impressed with the stylus functions.  I'm more than ever convinced that the screen size is about right for a mobile device and the stylus really makes it a more productive device. 

The whole package is pretty damn good actually, but it can't compete with the iPad for value.


----------



## cliche guevara (Jun 7, 2011)

How is the stylus in terms of responsiveness and accuracy? It'd have to be near perfect I think, any light delay or misalignment would do my head in.


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> How is the stylus in terms of responsiveness and accuracy? It'd have to be near perfect I think, any light delay or misalignment would do my head in.


It's pretty damn good although there is a slight lag. However, I can definitely sketch on the thing and it ends up looking like what I might have drawn on paper. Drawing on my phone or an iPad with my finger doesn't come even slightly close.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> How is the stylus in terms of responsiveness and accuracy? It'd have to be near perfect I think, any light delay or misalignment would do my head in.


 
Every video I've seen the lag is enough to make it annoying for me, when they get a 1:1 ration of use and screen representation then I'll be interested.


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Every video I've seen the lag is enough to make it annoying for me, when they get a 1:1 ration of use and screen representation then I'll be interested.


It could be better, but it's miles better than anything else out there, and after a while you get used to the fairly minimal lag.  It's a great start though as v2 could be something special.

That said, for my purposes, I'd still take it over the iPad.


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2011)

Actually, it's pretty damn good for sketching. I'm the greatest artists, but I just very quickly drew this and it's more or less as I'd draw it on paper.

I could really get used to have a digital sketchpad!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 7, 2011)

How good is the handwriting recognition into turning your notes in something you can edit on the pc?


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> How good is the handwriting recognition into turning your notes in something you can edit on the pc?


I don't think it does handwriting recognition, but you can use the keyboard to type notes directly on to drawings/photos etc., and also add files/audio files etc. It's more like a sketchbook with a scrapbook attached, if you get my drift.


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2011)

This explains what it does and does not) do: 


> What is interesting though is the way HTC have enabled 4 apps that could be perfect for many people.
> There’s a note-taking application which spans standard test, pen-based text and ‘scribbles’ image and audio that is backed by the excellent Evernote service.
> There’s a PDF application which allows you to highlight and annotate over PDF files and save in the PDF format. This is one of the easiest ways to sign a PDF that I’ve ever seen!
> Thirdly, and this one impressed me more than all the other pen-enabled apps, there’s a book-reading application that allows pen-based selection, highlighting, annotation and note-making. It’s powerful and I can see this helping students to study.
> Finally, you can annotate images in the gallery.


http://www.umpcportal.com/2011/05/inking-on-the-htc-flyer-with-the-magic-pen/


----------



## elbows (Jun 8, 2011)

Interesting stuff. A friend just leant me one of those 3rd party capacitive stylus's by Griffin to try with my ipad. I wish you could also try this combo so that you would be able to compare and contrast with the HTC flyer experience.


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2011)

elbows said:


> Interesting stuff. A friend just leant me one of those 3rd party capacitive stylus's by Griffin to try with my ipad. I wish you could also try this combo so that you would be able to compare and contrast with the HTC flyer experience.


I've tried one of those add on styluses and they're pretty awful for sketching - the end is a big blunt thing like a huge crayon. You may as well use your fingers, IMO. The HTC is miles better.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 8, 2011)

editor said:


> Actually, it's pretty damn good for sketching. I'm the greatest artists, but I just very quickly drew this and it's more or less as I'd draw it on paper.
> 
> I could really get used to have a digital sketchpad!



Ipad sketching, maybe not the fine point of the Flyer stylus, but apparently pretty good:

http://www.e-cloudy.com/2011/05/10/drawing-on-ipad-with-pogo-sketch-stylus/


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> Ipad sketching, maybe not the fine point of the Flyer stylus, but apparently pretty good:


Thing is, in the hands of the right artist, great art can be made on an old tea bag and a bit of cardboard, but in the real world, most users will soon get frustrated trying to create anything with such a clumsy implement.

Edit to add: the Flyer's stylus really need to support more drawing apps.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 8, 2011)

This is an Android integration issue, rather than HTC doing it which will always be problematic, Google needs to incorporate stylus input into Android.


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2011)

Sunray said:


> This is an Android integration issue, rather than HTC doing it which will always be problematic, Google needs to incorporate stylus input into Android.


The Flyer is definitely not the finished article, but it's pretty close and there is no doubt in my mind that its form factor and stylus input will definitely prove very popular with some people. I reckon a lot of people will find 10+" tablets too big to carry around, while a 7" tablet is a great compromise - and the ability to sketch really is fantastic.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 8, 2011)

editor said:


> The Flyer is definitely not the finished article, but it's pretty close and there is no doubt in my mind that its form factor and stylus input will definitely prove very popular with some people. I reckon a lot of people will find 10+" tablets too big to carry around, while a 7" tablet is a great compromise - and the ability to sketch really is fantastic.


 
Got to agree with that, it's just a damn shame it's so expensive!


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> It's just a damn shame it's so expensive!


Yep. It's really nice tablet but simply can't justify its price tag compared to the iPad.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 8, 2011)

Is it pressure sensitive?


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Jun 8, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Is it pressure sensitive?



From the video it seems that the pen has just two thicknesses of stroke achieved by changing pressure. That would just about do for writing in Italic maybe.


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Is it pressure sensitive?


Yes.


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2011)

Here's another quick sketch (I did it while I was waiting for the coffee to boil).

I like the fact that this thing makes me want to sketch more (and as you'll no doubt be quick to comment - I need to practice more!).


----------



## Sunray (Jun 8, 2011)

I am unsure who exactly its aimed at?  Its clearly a niche product for people with artistic flair but without it being a default input type on android its limited to whatever HTC decide to create.

Perhaps a version of Android 3.x will address this problem?


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I am unsure who exactly its aimed at?  Its clearly a niche product for people with artistic flair but without it being a default input type on android its limited to whatever HTC decide to create.


Not every product has to vie for mass market appeal to be deemed successful, but it seems to have sold a shedload anyway. 

I guess its market is people who prefer a smaller, well built tablet and who like the option to be able to annotate notes with sound files, photos and sketches etc., and who like the option to draw directly on the screen. 

There's no way I'd pay £480 for this, but I have to say it's the only tablet I've seen so far that I've really grown attached to. If someone comes up with something similar with the option to sketch in more apps, then I might be tempted (but not for silly money).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2011)

editor said:


> It could be better, but it's miles better than anything else out there, and after a while you get used to the fairly minimal lag.  It's a great start though as v2 could be something special.
> 
> That said, for my purposes, I'd still take it over the iPad.



Yep it should be, won't be interesting me till it is. I was thinking today what I really want at work is to be able to write my task list but then move them around on the page, typing them up then faffing about with copy and paste is time I could spend working, paper doesn't allow it. I paused, sighed inwardly, realising what I want at work is a MS Courier...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> Ipad sketching, maybe not the fine point of the Flyer stylus, but apparently pretty good:
> 
> http://www.e-cloudy.com/2011/05/10/drawing-on-ipad-with-pogo-sketch-stylus/


 
There's some incredible iPad art out there done with fingers, really great stuff.


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep it should be, won't be interesting me till it is. I was thinking today what I really want at work is to be able to write my task list but then move them around on the page, typing them up then faffing about with copy and paste is time I could spend working, paper doesn't allow it. I paused, sighed inwardly, realising what I want at work is a MS Courier...


The Flyer has a Courier-esque trick up its sleeve in so much as you can start a note, take a couple of photos and stick them on the page, draw on them, add typed notes, add a sound file and create a long and rather natural feeling 'scrapbook' page.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 9, 2011)

The Reg review is up. It gets 80% - the only gripe seems to be the same one everyone has. the price!

http://www.reghardware.com/2011/06/09/review_htc_flyer_android_tablet/


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> The Reg review is up. It gets 80% - the only gripe seems to be the same one everyone has. the price!
> 
> http://www.reghardware.com/2011/06/09/review_htc_flyer_android_tablet/


I'd go along with that review.  I hadn't really noticed that the capacitive control buttons automatically changed orientation with the tablet - and that speaks volumes of the unit's ease of use. This is one review model I'm going to be reluctant to give back!


----------



## fractionMan (Jun 9, 2011)

Man I'd love one of those for sketching but it's just too much money.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2011)

Blimey The speakers on this thing are well good!


----------



## lobster (Jun 12, 2011)

editor said:


> Edit to add: the Flyer's stylus really need to support more drawing apps.



I don't think there are many sketching apps on the android  , SketchBook Mobile, Sketcher PRO,Draw(er) Pro and a few others.
None of them compete with what is available on a pc such as Corel Painter. I think buying a tablet pc such as ....acer iconia w500, lenovo ideapad s10-3t, Asus Eee PC T101MT  makes more sense if you are after a portable fully featured sketchpad.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2011)

lobster said:


> I don't think there are many sketching apps on the android  , SketchBook Mobile, Sketcher PRO,Draw(er) Pro and a few others.
> None of them compete with what is available on a pc such as Corel Painter. I think buying a tablet pc such as ....acer iconia w500, lenovo ideapad s10-3t, Asus Eee PC T101MT  makes more sense if you are after a portable fully featured sketchpad.


Tablet PCs are too big. Truth is, I'm still pining for the Microsoft Courier!


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2011)

Damn. I'm going to be sorry to hand this tablet back. 

*hopes HTC forget


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2011)

Engadget has reviewed the US version of the Flyer, the EVO View 4G, and pretty much loved what it found:
http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/15/htc-evo-view-4g-review/


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2011)

One more rave review coming up! I totally agree with the reviewer about a 7" tablet being far more practical than a 10" one.



> It is probably important to start this off by admitting something; I have yet to be impressed by a 10-inch tablet. The whole idea to this ultraportable slab of mobile-amazing is that it’s supposed to be… well, ultraportable.
> 
> I should be able to comfortably walk and be more productive then I am on my phone, and also satiate my seemingly unquenchable thirst for entertainment. As a Macbook Air owner–one who has spent more then his fair share of afternoons walking about in my house with the laptop crooked in one arm and handling children with the other–I feel like a tablet should be more portable than that.
> 
> ...


http://www.geek.com/articles/mobile/review-htc-flyer-almost-perfect-20110621/


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2011)

Interesting poll found most people in the UK and US prefer 10 inch screens.


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## editor (Jun 21, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Interesting poll found most people in the UK and US prefer 10 inch screens.


What poll?

And had any of those people actually used 7" screens?


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## editor (Jun 21, 2011)

This poll says the exact reverse. 



> Apple CEO Steve Jobs has dissed the 7-inch tablet size, saying "we don't think you can make a great tablet with a seven inch screen" and that Apple thinks "it's too small to express the software that people want to put on these things."
> Yet people say they're interested in the 7-inch size. Almost half of men and women polled by Jefferies say they are interested in 7-inch tablets, versus 10- or 5-inch tablets.
> 
> Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/poll-7-inch-ipad-2011-5#ixzz1PwOI8phX


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## editor (Jun 21, 2011)

And this poll of over 15,000 users said the same:


> Portability Matters! 60% of 15,000+ poll respondents would prefer a 7" BlackBerry PlayBook over a 10" version
> 
> http://m.crackberry.com/portability...-prefer-7-blackberry-playbook-over-10-version


Maybe the other poll is skewed because the question was something like: "Would you like an iPad or a frankly inferior tablet with a smaller screen?"


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## revol68 (Jun 21, 2011)

if i could be arsed lugging around an iPad I'd just the whole way and get a sexy netbook.

still don't think I have much use for a 7inch tablet either though, too close to my phone, not close enough to a good netbook.


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## editor (Jun 21, 2011)

revol68 said:


> if i could be arsed lugging around an iPad I'd just the whole way and get a sexy netbook.
> 
> still don't think I have much use for a 7inch tablet either though, too close to my phone, not close enough to a good netbook.


Oh, I dunno. I thought much the same at first, but the 7" tablet hits the sweet spot for web surfing and watching TV/vids.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 21, 2011)

Carrying an iPad is hardly "lugging"... but oh this is a revol68 comment about an Apple product, sorry, was forgetting.


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## revol68 (Jun 21, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Carrying an iPad is hardly "lugging"... but oh this is a revol68 comment about an Apple product, sorry, was forgetting.


 
no but if i was willing to go to that size i'd go for a nice netbook with stronger specs and a lot more functionality.


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## lobster (Jun 21, 2011)

revol68 said:


> no but if i was willing to go to that size i'd go for a nice netbook with stronger specs and a lot more functionality.


 
What more functionality would you like?


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## revol68 (Jun 21, 2011)

lobster said:


> What more functionality would you like?


 
keyboard that isn't separate, essentially all the functionality of a laptop but in a smaller form ie a netbook.

also the functionality of not looking like an utter cunt/walking mugging target of having an iPad.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jun 21, 2011)

revol68 said:


> also the functionality of not looking like an utter cunt/walking mugging target of having an iPad.


 
yeah here we go


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## editor (Jun 21, 2011)

The only tablet that I'd be prepared to pay decent money for was the Courier. The Flyer comes close, but I'd want integrated drawing/sketching across the entire OS.


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## lobster (Jun 21, 2011)

revol68 said:


> keyboard that isn't separate, essentially all the functionality of a laptop but in a smaller form ie a netbook.
> 
> also the functionality of not looking like an utter cunt/walking mugging target of having an iPad.


 
lenovo ideapad s10-3t might be what your after, its a netbook with detachable screen.


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## revol68 (Jun 21, 2011)

lobster said:


> lenovo ideapad s10-3t might be what your after, its a netbook with detachable screen.


 
don't fancy that, jack of all trades master of none comes to mind.

a nice high spec netbook is a similar price and I can play some classic games on it, proper games not the casual shit you get on the iPad or Android formats.


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## editor (Jun 21, 2011)

Have to say that the few times I've been using the HTC Flyer in cafes, it's always attracted interest from people nearby - and all of them have seemed very keen on the tablet.


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## revol68 (Jun 21, 2011)

editor said:


> Have to say that the few times I've been using the HTC Flyer in cafes, it's always attracted interest from people nearby - and all of them have seemed very keen on the tablet.


 
is 7" a practical size though, I mean my Desire is nearly 4inch already.

be interested to see what these google chrome cloud laptops are like, very sceptical about them myself but you never know.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Carrying an iPad is hardly "lugging"... but oh this is a revol68 comment about an Apple product, sorry, was forgetting.


 
LOL! True, it's a pain if you're feeble or you know hating on a consumer product...


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## lobster (Jun 24, 2011)

revol68 said:


> is 7" a practical size though, I mean my Desire is nearly 4inch already.



To me 7 or 10 inch is not the issue , but what your getting is exactly the same as the phone minus the ability to phone for the same price. I was reading a review of the Samsung Galaxy tab 10.1 and the actual hardware got a good review but what you can do on it did not.

The following paragraph says it all imo.



> As things stand now, too many killer applications—like Flipboard and Netflix—on the iPad have no tablet-friendly Android equivalent. Users have to rely on Android phone software for almost everything, which generally offers a poor user experience on Honeycomb.
> Held back by the apps
> 
> The Galaxy Tab 10.1 easily has the best hardware of any Android tablet on the market today. Samsung has really outdone itself—the Tab 10.1's svelte profile and impressively light weight (it weighs less than an iPad and has more RAM) are sure to attract the attention of consumers. Hardware excellence isn't the only measure of a good tablet, however; software is arguably just as important—if not more so—on such a personal device.
> ...





revol68 said:


> be interested to see what these google chrome cloud laptops are like, very sceptical about them myself but you never know.



This is a good  using non-technical terms on the operating system that runs on those chromebooks


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