# Brockwell Fireworks to cost £7 a head this year



## hendo (Sep 3, 2014)

But it would appear under 16's get in free:

http://www.brixtonblog.com/breaking...kwell-park-fireworks-for-the-first-time/24408


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## T & P (Sep 3, 2014)

Fuck the greedy cunts.


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## MAD-T-REX (Sep 3, 2014)

> It is the first time it has issued tickets for the formerly free event, which last year attracted 100,000 revellers to the Herne Hill park.
> 
> Tickets will go on sale later this month, and the council says last year’s event cost them £95,000 to put on.


I only got a C in GCSE Maths, but wouldn't £1 a head cover it?


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## cuppa tee (Sep 3, 2014)

MAD-T-REX said:


> I only got a C in GCSE Maths, but wouldn't £1 a head cover it?



they mention safety in that press release so their thinking is probably that £7 a head will reduce numbers attending and make it a more _*exclusive*_ event..........


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## leanderman (Sep 3, 2014)

MAD-T-REX said:


> I only got a C in GCSE Maths, but wouldn't £1 a head cover it?



£2 or £3 - kids are free


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## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

Let's wait and see how much the early discounted tickets for residents cost and how many will be available.
It is a shame. I would not pay £7. Apart form being quite a lot, it will skew the crowd much more towards being a parents and kids event.

Luckily I know people with gardens backing onto the park. Anyone wanting to use the private member's gate for £2.50 let me know .


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy, that isn't really in the spirit of Urban 

They should charge non Lambeth residents and we should get in for free. 

If I perch on a corner of my bed, I have a clear view out the bedroom window, I'm staying home in the warm


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

I'm not paying £7. Or £5. 
The whole point was that it was a community event that brought _all_ of Brixton together, not just those who can afford it, or those with the correct discounted options.


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## Manter (Sep 3, 2014)

That's a bit shit. I'll stay at home and look from my window.

Edit- and it also means they'll funnel you through a few entrances with attendant queueing and frustration, rather than us being able to pop in through cressingham gardens. Fuck that


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## Manter (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Let's wait and see how much the early discounted tickets for residents cost and how many will be available.
> It is a shame. I would not pay £7. Apart form being quite a lot, it will skew the crowd much more towards being a parents and kids event.
> 
> Luckily I know people with gardens backing onto the park. Anyone wanting to use the private member's gate for £2.50 let me know .


Why would it make it a parents and kids event? Why would I want to pay £14 when the kid may kick off because they are tired or cold and we need to go home early?! I'll go to a free event somewhere else over the nearest weekend


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## leanderman (Sep 3, 2014)

Manter said:


> Why would it make it a parents and kids event? Why would I want to pay £14 when the kid may kick off because they are tired or cold and we need to go home early?! I'll go to a free event somewhere else over the nearest weekend



May do same - though three kids brings down the (average) price, to £2.80.


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## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

Manter said:


> Why would it make it a parents and kids event? Why would I want to pay £14 when the kid may kick off because they are tired or cold and we need to go home early?! I'll go to a free event somewhere else over the nearest weekend


Might be wrong but I don't see all that many people 20-30 somethings paying £7 each to pre-buy tickets for fireworks unless they extend it into a longer event with a bonfire (which isn't going to happen). For two adults staking a bunch of kids out it is much better value - as the kids go free. So maybe £2.50 each.

ETA as leanderman said above. Maybe he just loves his kids more than you do.


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## Manter (Sep 3, 2014)

Busted


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## friendofdorothy (Sep 3, 2014)

We'll do what we normally do and watch from outside the Regent.


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## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Might be wrong but I don't see all that many people 20-30 somethings paying £7 each to pre-buy tickets for fireworks unless they extend it into a longer event with a bonfire (which isn't going to happen). For two adults staking a bunch of kids out it is much better value - as the kids go free. So maybe £2.50 each.
> 
> ETA as leanderman said above. Maybe he just loves his kids more than you do.


For anyone in any doubt, I'd like to clarify that "Two adults staking a bunch of kids out" was a spelling mistak.


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## SpamMisery (Sep 3, 2014)

I'm sure it was, but I don't doubt you now appear on a list somewhere


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## kittyP (Sep 3, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> they mention safety in that press release so their thinking is probably that £7 a head will reduce numbers attending and make it a more _*exclusive*_ event..........



The numbers last year were ridiculous! There were waaaaay to many people for the park. Especially in certain areas. 
I am used to festivals and the such but it was quite scary at one point.


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## Smick (Sep 3, 2014)

I wonder what the market traders and carnival folk will think if there are half as many people to buy their overpriced shite or get pestered into paying for their mechanical contraptions.

As it was I spent over £20 last year. There's no way I'm adding£14 to that.


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## leanderman (Sep 3, 2014)

Smick said:


> I wonder what the market traders and carnival folk will think if there are half as many people to buy their overpriced shite or get pestered into paying for their mechanical contraptions.
> 
> As it was I spent over £20 last year. There's no way I'm adding£14 to that.



Hipflask


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## Manter (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> For anyone in any doubt, I'd like to clarify that "Two adults staking a bunch of kids out" was a spelling mistak.


Freudian?


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## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

Manter said:


> Freudian?


Leave my mother out of it.


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## Smick (Sep 3, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Hipflask


I was thinking more of the £5 led glow in the dark star which doesn't work by the time you get home!


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## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

Smick said:


> I was thinking more of the £5 led glow in the dark star which doesn't work by the time you get home!


I wondered who buys those .


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## Biddlybee (Sep 3, 2014)

> The theme for the event is LIGHT


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## prunus (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm not paying £7. Or £5.
> The whole point was that it was a community event that brought _all_ of Brixton together, not just those who can afford it, or those with the correct discounted options.



This. Fuckity fucking cunts.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 3, 2014)

Outrageous.  

Make the out-of-towners pay and let the locals go free


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## Manter (Sep 3, 2014)

Biddlybee said:


>


Real out of the box thinking there


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## Tricky Skills (Sep 3, 2014)

I've added an edit to include a few more details on the BBuzz piece:

Lambeth Council has now confirmed that the early bird offer will be for £6 - a £1 saving. These will be on sale for Lambeth residents only.

The 'Event' will include a funfair, food and drink.

_Mmmm_...


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## leanderman (Sep 3, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> I've added an edit to include a few more details on the BBuzz piece:
> 
> Lambeth Council has now confirmed that the early bird offer will be for £6 - a £1 saving. These will be on sale for Lambeth residents only.
> 
> ...



£2.40 each now. No interest in anything other than fireworks.


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## Rushy (Sep 3, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> I've added an edit to include a few more details on the BBuzz piece:
> 
> Lambeth Council has now confirmed that the early bird offer will be for £6 - a £1 saving. These will be on sale for Lambeth residents only.
> 
> ...


Why even bother with that discount .


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 3, 2014)

If the food, drink and funfair at the 'event' were included in the ticket price it would be more attractive, but you'd have to fork out even more money to get any benefit from them


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 3, 2014)

prunus said:


> This. Fuckity fucking cunts.


So eloquently put.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 3, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> I've added an edit to include a few more details on the BBuzz piece:
> 
> Lambeth Council has now confirmed that the early bird offer will be for £6 - a £1 saving. These will be on sale for Lambeth residents only.
> 
> ...





Rushy said:


> Why even bother with that discount .



Wow, a massive £1 early bird saving 

Where's the student/unemployed/OAP/disabled discount?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 3, 2014)

Maybe they're testing the waters to see if they could start charging for the Country Show?


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Let's wait and see how much the early discounted tickets for residents cost and how many will be available.
> It is a shame. I would not pay £7. Apart form being quite a lot, it will skew the crowd much more towards being a parents and kids event.
> 
> Luckily I know people with gardens backing onto the park. Anyone wanting to use the private member's gate for £2.50 let me know .


Im renting out vibrant step ladders for 2 quid an hour.


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 3, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Maybe they're testing the waters to see if they could start charging for the Country Show?


Cynical,But a good shout all the same


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## Smick (Sep 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I wondered who buys those .


I think I might be a soft touch. I had considered buying a consignment of 20 off eBay for a fiver and giving them out to all my daughter's school friends on the morning of the fireworks, although I now suspect that many won't be going.


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## madolesance (Sep 3, 2014)

Maybe they are. 



Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Maybe they're testing the waters to see if they could start charging for the Country Show?


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## snowy_again (Sep 3, 2014)

What a shitty thing to do.

What's stopping you from being in the park before they lock the gates?


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> What a shitty thing to do.
> 
> What's stopping you from being in the park before they lock the gates?


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## boohoo (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm not paying £7. Or £5.
> The whole point was that it was a community event that brought _all_ of Brixton together, not just those who can afford it, or those with the correct discounted options.



Shouldn't that read brought all of Lambeth together....


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Shouldn't that read brought all of Lambeth together....


I know nothing of Lambeth.


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## snowy_again (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


>



Any idea of the legality of that - it's a public park, and security couldn't clear the entire thing if 100+ people were milling around in different sections of it? 

Access to the lido gym / cafe would still need to be there etc.


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## snowy_again (Sep 3, 2014)

Or just bunk over the fence on Dulwich Road?


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

I wonder how much of the £7 will be spent on providing security to keep fence jumpers out?


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## SarfLondoner (Sep 3, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Or just bunk over the fence on Dulwich Road?


Or


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

I think it would be a good idea to compile a list of public places offering a good view of the display.


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## quimcunx (Sep 3, 2014)

Smick said:


> I think I might be a soft touch. I had considered buying a consignment of 20 off eBay for a fiver and giving them out to all my daughter's school friends on the morning of the fireworks, although I now suspect that many won't be going.



what you want is disco finger lights.


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## kittyP (Sep 3, 2014)

Smick said:


> I think I might be a soft touch. I had considered buying a consignment of 20 off eBay for a fiver and giving them out to all my daughter's school friends on the morning of the fireworks, although I now suspect that many won't be going.



I had a massive tube of glowsticks last year and Badgers and I handed them out to kids who didn't have any.

We did ask their parents first


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## nagapie (Sep 3, 2014)

I have children and live really near the park, no way will I be paying £6 to attend the fireworks. What an ill-conceived idea.


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## leanderman (Sep 4, 2014)

nagapie said:


> I have children and live really near the park, no way will I be paying £6 to attend the fireworks. What an ill-conceived idea.



It's worse than a crime, it's a mistake. I just can't see it working.


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## Smick (Sep 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> It's worse than a crime, it's a mistake. I just can't see it working.


A fifth of last year's crowd, paying an average of £6.50. £130k in, £95k out, much less traffic and public transport issues due to the lower crowd. Lambeth will think it has worked fantastically.

I am going to write and ask whether councillors and their families get in free.


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## Ms T (Sep 4, 2014)

I think a  lot of public displays in London are no longer free so Lambeth probably thinks they can get away with it.


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## ringo (Sep 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I wondered who buys those .



I do. We have a whole range of spinning light things, gloves with lights on the tips of the fingers and sparkling wands. Sometimes we let the kids have a go too.


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## ringo (Sep 4, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> what you want is disco finger lights.



The littlun has those too. Quite annoying in the face.


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## Rushy (Sep 4, 2014)

ringo said:


> I do. We have a whole range of spinning light things, gloves with lights on the tips of the fingers and sparkling wands. Sometimes we let the kids have a go too.


Fair dos. I confess to having owned a pair of white gloves with finger tip lights myself. And a pair of alternately flashing halloween devils horns. I guess the flashing led sticks don't quite do it for me!

Whilst I'm thinking about it - anyone know where I can get a pair of finger tip light gloves at short notice?
Crispy do you sell those amazing animal head dresses you make?


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## Crispy (Sep 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Crispy do you sell those amazing animal head dresses you make?


To make it worth my time (and they take a long time to make), they'd be priced out of the market  When I figure out a way of getting them made in half an hour by Bangladeshi child labour, I'll let you know


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## Rushy (Sep 4, 2014)

Crispy said:


> To make it worth my time (and they take a long time to make), they'd be priced out of the market  When I figure out a way of getting them made in half an hour by Bangladeshi child labour, I'll let you know


That's a shame - they are awsome!


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## Ms Ordinary (Sep 4, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> We'll do what we normally do and watch from outside the Regent.



I think that will be an exceedingly popular decision this year.


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## Ms Ordinary (Sep 4, 2014)

So - does anyone know if _unaccompanied _under-16s will be allowed free entry?
Or just one's who have an adult willing to stump up a £7 entry fee?


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## Crispy (Sep 4, 2014)

How are they going to police it? The park has a long boundary and it's not completely impermeable.


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## Smick (Sep 4, 2014)

I imagine that at the main gates, they'll have barriers inside like a holding pen, to prevent the crowd spilling on to the road.

I wasn't aware that other boroughs charge. These are councils, not event promoters! If they can't afford to do it properly from the council tax take then they shouldn't do it at all.


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## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

Crispy said:


> How are they going to police it? The park has a long boundary and it's not completely impermeable.


They're going to need lots of stewards and security staff. And that'll cost a pretty penny.


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## cuppa tee (Sep 4, 2014)

editor said:


> They're going to need lots of stewards and security staff. And that'll cost a pretty penny.



I wouldnt be surprised if they are planning on creating an enclosed area for the event by sticking up a temporary fence with gates to control who goes in and out and that won't be cheap.


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## quimcunx (Sep 4, 2014)

Smick said:


> I imagine that at the main gates, they'll have barriers inside like a holding pen, to prevent the crowd spilling on to the road.
> 
> I wasn't aware that other boroughs charge. These are councils, not event promoters! If they can't afford to do it properly from the council tax take then they shouldn't do it at all.



What gets me is them always bragging about freezing the council tax.


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## Winot (Sep 4, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> I wouldnt be surprised if they are planning on creating an enclosed area for the event by sticking up a temporary fence with gates to control who goes in and out and that won't be cheap.



And fireworks that only go as high as fence level?


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## Rushy (Sep 4, 2014)

I've heard that there are plans to have stewards patrolling the streets charging anyone who looks at the sky.


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## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I've heard that there are plans to have stewards patrolling the streets charging anyone who looks at the sky.


I heard they were creating a big blanket to cover the view.


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## Winot (Sep 4, 2014)

Compulsory hats. With extra-wide brims.  Commercial tie-in with OTC bar.


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## Rushy (Sep 4, 2014)

Or they will just do them indoors


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## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

Winot said:


> Compulsory hats. With extra-wide brims.  Commercial tie-in with OTC bar.


Cheese based fireworks launched from vintage desks.


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## cuppa tee (Sep 4, 2014)

Winot said:


> And fireworks that only go as high as fence level?



lol, but as council press release said 



> _This year it will be more of an event rather than just a fireworks display_


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 4, 2014)

An event?


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## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> An event?


A £7 event. I'm struggling to think what they can do to stop the entire thing being about the fireworks, what with the point of the thing being all about Fireworks Night.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 4, 2014)

editor said:


> A £7 event. I'm struggling to think what they can do to stop the entire thing being about the fireworks, what with the point of the thing being all about Fireworks Night.



Maybe they'll have people selling jacket potatoes 

Big fireworks displays I attended as a kid always had jacket spuds.  They also had bonfires as well, but Lambeth obviously won't allow that 

What if there was a Chucklehead stall?  Maybe that would encourage people to part with their dosh?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 4, 2014)

Best Guy competition for the kids?


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## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Maybe they'll have people selling jacket potatoes
> 
> Big fireworks displays I attended as a kid always had jacket spuds.  They also had bonfires as well, but Lambeth obviously won't allow that
> 
> What if there was a Chucklehead stall?  Maybe that would encourage people to part with their dosh?


I can remember the bonfire they used to have in Brockwell park. It's a bit rubbish without it as there's bugger all to look at once the fireworks have finished.


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 4, 2014)

Its not an 'event', its the same fireworks we've always had. They've just sold more pitches to food & drink vendors and the funfair, fenced it off and started charging to get in


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## friendofdorothy (Sep 4, 2014)

Ms Ordinary said:


> I think that will be an exceedingly popular decision this year.


There will be half of Herne Hill outside the Regent and Florence no doubt. The other half will be planning a visit to their mates who live in Meath house or the tower blocks.


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## cuppa tee (Sep 4, 2014)

editor said:


> I can remember the bonfire they used to have in Brockwell park. It's a bit rubbish without it as there's bugger all to look at once the fireworks have finished.



more from the press release............


> .......this  year it will be more of an event rather and just a fireworks display, *with a bonfire for the first time*, street style performers and themed areas for children to enjoy throughout the evening.
> .........the theme for the event is LIGHT and there will also be bars, food and craft stalls with details of more performers to follow



.........so basically pop ups in the park, I wouldnt be surprised to see the Country Show go the same way.


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## 299 old timer (Sep 4, 2014)

Frankly Lambeth can take a running jump. I and thousands of other Lambeth residents pay council tax for the upkeep of parks, streets, lighting, rubbish collections etc etc and they want to charge for an event in a public park for which we pay for the upkeep?
They already scam enough out of the Country Show by using the park as a parking space, nice little earner that one, Del Boy would be proud. Fuck them.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 4, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> more from the press release............
> 
> 
> .........so basically pop ups in the park, I wouldnt be surprised to see the Country Show go the same way.


i think you're missing a trick as the bonfire could be used for a more public-spirited use by having lib peck burned in effigy - or preferably in the flesh - alongside her cabinet colleagues


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## Tricky Skills (Sep 4, 2014)

An update:

Lambeth Council is planning on a 50% reduction in attendance compared to the free fireworks of last year.

Plus traders have been invited to name their own price for a pitch, rather than a set council fee.


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## wtfftw (Sep 4, 2014)

Being back the fireworks and bonfire in Kennington Park. When I were young etc.



Are there any free displays left then? I've not find any in my decade up north (London).


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## Rushy (Sep 4, 2014)

wtfftw said:


> Being back the fireworks and bonfire in Kennington Park. When I were young etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any free displays left then? I've not find any in my decade up north (London).


I went to a free one in Blackheath last year.


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## wtfftw (Sep 4, 2014)

I just did a Google but I seem to be a bit early/eager.



I thought free local displays were generally thought to be A Good Thing as then less people die in fieryamateurness.


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## el-ahrairah (Sep 4, 2014)

this is a great idea.  it'll help keep out the riff-raff that used to infest this area before gentrification came along and made it all nice.


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## gaijingirl (Sep 4, 2014)

Really quite upset at this news.


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## Winot (Sep 4, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> Frankly Lambeth can take a running jump. I and thousands of other Lambeth residents pay council tax for the upkeep of parks, streets, lighting, rubbish collections etc etc and they want to charge for an event in a public park for which we pay for the upkeep?



I don't think this is a very strong argument - the cost of the event clearly goes beyond the normal cost of upkeep.  And there will be plenty of people who argue that a fireworks display is a non-essential service so should be cut if money is tight.

Personally I think it is a great inclusive community event (like the Country Show) and should be kept free for that reason, but given the cuts to LA budgets you can see why this has happened.


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 4, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> Frankly Lambeth can take a running jump. I and thousands of other Lambeth residents pay council tax for the upkeep of parks, streets, lighting, rubbish collections etc etc and they want to charge for an event in a public park for which we pay for the upkeep?
> They already scam enough out of the Country Show by using the park as a parking space, nice little earner that one, Del Boy would be proud. Fuck them.



I don't have a massive issue with the council hiring the park out for things like concerts or filming, if it helps bring in income to support the park. But to take an event that had been traditionally free and open to the whole community and start charging for it is wrong and totally excludes huge swathes of the community. £7 might not seem a lot to lots of people (including me), but to a lot of people in Lambeth it will make the fireworks totally out of reach.


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## Manter (Sep 4, 2014)

wtfftw said:


> Being back the fireworks and bonfire in Kennington Park. When I were young etc.
> 
> 
> 
> Are there any free displays left then? I've not find any in my decade up north (London).


We went to a free one in Beaconsfield last year. And it had a bonfire


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## Tricky Skills (Sep 4, 2014)

Blackheath fireworks is an interesting one. Geographically the site straddles both the boroughs of Lewisham and Greenwich. Both local authorities shared the bill 50:50, until 2010 when Greenwich pulled out. Lewisham now coughs up for the free display, even though residents on both sides get the benefit.


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## Ms T (Sep 4, 2014)

Blackheath is one of the few free ones left, partly presumably because it would be impossible to police entry there. Which partly explains why Brockwell Park was so utterly rammed last year.


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## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

It can hardly continue to advertise itself as a community event given that the admission charges will now exclude some poorer residents.


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## Tricky Skills (Sep 4, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Blackheath is one of the few free ones left, partly presumably because it would be impossible to police entry there. Which partly explains why Brockwell Park was so utterly rammed last year.



Yes - I think the Lambeth ticketing experiment signals the end of fireworks on both Streatham and Clapham Common.


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## Rushy (Sep 4, 2014)

Winot said:


> I don't think this is a very strong argument - the cost of the event clearly goes beyond the normal cost of upkeep.  And there will be plenty of people who argue that a fireworks display is a non-essential service so should be cut if money is tight.
> 
> Personally I think it is a great inclusive community event (like the Country Show) and should be kept free for that reason, but given the cuts to LA budgets you can see why this has happened.


Yep. Rapidly getting too big for safety and not enough cash. Not sure what the solution is really. £2 / ticket, locals only, first come first served? Dunno. Disappointing, nonetheless.

Not sure what others charge but at £7 I would not be surprised if take up was less than they hope.


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## Tricky Skills (Sep 4, 2014)

Plus Cllr Edbrooke has stated that the police apparently have 'strong concerns' about holding the event in Clapham.


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## Tricky Skills (Sep 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Yep. Rapidly getting too big for safety and not enough cash. Not sure what the solution is really. £2 / ticket, locals only, first come first served? Dunno. Disappointing, nonetheless.



Look beyond the cost; see the 'social wellbeing' that a community fireworks display can offer. Hold THREE displays - Brockwell, Clapham and Streatham. Spread the crowds, feel the love etc 

Never gonna happen.


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## sparkybird (Sep 4, 2014)

I've been going for years and would have been happy to make a donation each time (as was advertised) but there was never anyone collecting. £7 seems a bit steep though - I think the number will be cut by much more than 50%. Even a £2 payment on the way in might put off enough people to reduce the numbers if this is really what they are after. And help towards the costs

Not interested in pop up entertainment/food/drink - just want to see the fireworks with my mates


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## Tricky Skills (Sep 4, 2014)

Or possibly... corporate sponsorship.

Fireworks are one of the few local authority 'services' that I would feel quite comfortable being pimped out to a major corporate brand. It has worked reasonably well for the Mayor's NYE fireworks.


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## DietCokeGirl (Sep 4, 2014)

Well this bloody sucks. I feel for parenst with kids who will be aksing why they cant go this year, when some of their school friends are.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 4, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> i think you're missing a trick as the bonfire could be used for a more public-spirited use by having lib peck burned in effigy - or preferably in the flesh - alongside her cabinet colleagues



They've probably banned chucking any politicians disguised as Guy on the fire.    Shame really, they could save some money with half the Cabinet keeping the fire burning through the night


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 4, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Plus Cllr Edbrooke has stated that the police apparently have 'strong concerns' about holding the event in Clapham.



Clapham was a nightmare one to go to.  Stupidly it wasn't even in the middle of the park (not the last one I went to anyway) so most people converged around Clapham Common (tube) end of the Common


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 4, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Look beyond the cost; see the 'social wellbeing' that a community fireworks display can offer. Hold THREE displays - Brockwell, Clapham and Streatham. Spread the crowds, feel the love etc
> 
> Never gonna happen.



Well it used to, so I don't know why it still can't, even if it does mean smaller displays rather than one large one.  At least it'd keep the kids happy and not exclude the not-so-rich


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Plus Cllr Edbrooke has stated that the police apparently have 'strong concerns' about holding the event in Clapham.


It isn't fenced in either they cant make money.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 4, 2014)

funnily enough, it kind of would have been better if they'd cancelled it for cost reasons.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

So you pay £7 to a council to celebrate the failed attempt to blow up there dictators palace. Fuck that for a game of soldiers im out.


----------



## T & P (Sep 4, 2014)

> .......this year it will be more of an event rather and just a fireworks display, *with a bonfire for the first time*, street style performers and themed areas for children to enjoy throughout the evening.
> .........the theme for the event is LIGHT and there will also be bars, food and craft stalls with details of more performers to follow



I hope this is not being set up by the people who did Lapland New Forest...


----------



## Maggot (Sep 4, 2014)

kittyP said:


> The numbers last year were ridiculous! There were waaaaay to many people for the park. Especially in certain areas.
> I am used to festivals and the such but it was quite scary at one point.



It's a good way to reduce the overcrowding. 

If you really can't afford it - watch from outside or don't go. It's no big deaL

I can't believe all the outrage from people who can easily afford £7.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 4, 2014)

Maggot said:


> It's a good way to reduce the overcrowding.
> 
> If you really can't afford it - watch from outside or don't go. It's no big deaL
> 
> I can't believe all the outrage from people who can easily afford £7.


i never go *and* i could afford it, but i'm allowed to think it's a shit thing to do to lower income people.  If i just think about whether *i* can afford stuff, that's a bit "I'm alright, Jack", isn't it?


----------



## toblerone3 (Sep 4, 2014)

Can you pay extra to get into the VIP area?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 4, 2014)

Im not Stumping up £7 for this


----------



## Maggot (Sep 4, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> i never go *and* i could afford it, but i'm allowed to think it's a shit thing to do to lower income people.  If i just think about whether *i* can afford stuff, that's a bit "I'm alright, Jack", isn't it?


 Of course it would be better if they were free, but to reduce costs and reduce over-crowding Lambeth have 2 options. 1) cancel the fireworks 2) charge for the fireworks - both cause upset and outrage.

I do think there should be a bigger discount for Lambeth residents though.


----------



## billythefish (Sep 4, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> There will be half of Herne Hill outside the Regent and Florence no doubt. The other half will be planning a visit to their mates who live in Meath house or the tower blocks.


It'll be half of Lambeth more like - there will be a few who pre-paid. The rest will turn up on spec and think WTF, and not be bothered to queue (how will it be safer than the crushes at the entrances last year if people are selling / checking tickets?)

Then, everyone will traipse around to Dulwich and Norwood roads (say, 60,000 or so?), get run over and/or block the traffic until Lambeth will be forced to concede they have monumentally fucked up and unlock the gates.

That's my prediction anyway ;-)


----------



## Ms T (Sep 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Yep. Rapidly getting too big for safety and not enough cash. Not sure what the solution is really. £2 / ticket, locals only, first come first served? Dunno. Disappointing, nonetheless.
> 
> Not sure what others charge but at £7 I would not be surprised if take up was less than they hope.


A google for last year says between 5 and 10 pounds.


----------



## buscador (Sep 5, 2014)

Since my route to the main gate takes me past at least two pubs I suspect it is unlikely that I'll make it in to the park. 

I wonder how they've sold this idea to the traders - if people have already forked out money to get in I dare say they'd be disinclined to want to spend too much more. The polis will spend the entire evening moving dodgy burger vans from Dulwich Road.

I understand that it's an expensive business putting on fireworks, but, like the country show, it creates a good atmosphere and lots of people really enjoy it. It's an inclusive event that should be encouraged, especially at a time when lots of people are feeling excluded.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 5, 2014)

It sucks, but council budgets are really squeezed.  I'd rather they spent their money on social services, tbh.


----------



## Smick (Sep 5, 2014)

Ms T said:


> It sucks, but council budgets are really squeezed.  I'd rather they spent their money on social services, tbh.


I'd rather that they were properly funded.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 5, 2014)

Smick said:


> I'd rather that they were properly funded.


Well obviously.  But that's not going to happen anytime soon.


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 5, 2014)

Winot said:


> I don't think this is a very strong argument - the cost of the event clearly goes beyond the normal cost of upkeep.  And there will be plenty of people who argue that a fireworks display is a non-essential service so should be cut if money is tight.
> 
> Personally I think it is a great inclusive community event (like the Country Show) and should be kept free for that reason, but given the cuts to LA budgets you can see why this has happened.



Be that as it may the council has previously managed to find adequate funding from whatever source to ensure the event stays free so everybody can enjoy the evening. I get the impression that the council is testing the water by commercialising the event, to see what it can get away with next.
On a practical level it would need a great many stewards to secure the circa 2km park boundary (at night!) so I'm presuming that they plan to cordon off a section of the park with fences and check punters for entry there.
What about all the other people that will be in the park, outside of this cordon? Will they be told to leave, thus turning a public space into a private one?


----------



## Smick (Sep 5, 2014)

Is the park ordinarily open at 7 pm on a November evening?


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 5, 2014)

Smick said:


> Is the park ordinarily open at 7 pm on a November evening?



No, it closes at Sunset. Think we should organise a mass sit in and see if Lambeth have the balls to physically remove residents from their park


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2014)

If it's raining, all those 'event-making' extras aren't going to add up to a lot. 
Usually, there's a mass exodus the second the fireworks end, preceded by a rush to get there in time.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 5, 2014)

£7 is mental!!

My local one the fireworks are always spectacular, and it attracts people from all round the area (resulting in quite long queues for parking), but they do run free shuttle buses from the local towns. Its run as a charity all done by volunteers, and is financed through a bit of local sponsorship and donations. They have a pig auction at the end of it it, proper old skool.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Sep 5, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> I don't have a massive issue with the council hiring the park out for things like concerts or filming, if it helps bring in income to support the park. But to take an event that had been traditionally free and open to the whole community and start charging for it is wrong and totally excludes huge swathes of the community. £7 might not seem a lot to lots of people (including me), but to a lot of people in Lambeth it will make the fireworks totally out of reach.


I _could_ pay £7 but I wouldn't want to, not for a fireworks display. Massive amount of money for about 30 minutes of entertainment. Plus of course I wouldn't want to on the principle you mention, that this established community event has now become exclusive. 

I wonder if it will lead to more garden fireworks for those who could pay but won't?


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Sep 5, 2014)

editor said:


> If it's raining, all those 'event-making' extras aren't going to add up to a lot.
> Usually, there's a mass exodus the second the fireworks end, preceded by a rush to get there in time.


If it rains you'd be even more pissed off to pay that amount of money. If it is rained off and people require refunds, surely they'll lose a shed load because of the security provision?


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2014)

Agent Sparrow said:


> If it rains you'd be even more pissed off to pay that amount of money. If it is rained off and people require refunds, surely they'll lose a shed load because of the security provision?


I'd love to know how much of this £7 is going to security.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 5, 2014)

sim667 said:


> £7 is mental!!
> 
> My local one the fireworks are always spectacular, and it attracts people from all round the area (resulting in quite long queues for parking), but they do run free shuttle buses from the local towns. Its run as a charity all done by volunteers, and is financed through a bit of local sponsorship and donations. They have a pig auction at the end of it it, proper old skool.



You obviously don't live in Lambeth


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 6, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> You obviously don't live in Lambeth



Must not..... make joke ... about.... pigs in Lambeth


----------



## rich! (Sep 6, 2014)

editor said:


> I'd love to know how much of this £7 is going to security.


Freedom of information request?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 6, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> Must not..... make joke ... about.... pigs in Lambeth


----------



## nagapie (Sep 6, 2014)

Ms T said:


> It sucks, but council budgets are really squeezed.  I'd rather they spent their money on social services, tbh.



But that's definitely not happening, they are busy trying to co-operatise child protection as we speak.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 6, 2014)

nagapie said:


> But that's definitely not happening, they are busy trying to co-operatise child protection as we speak.


Do you mean corporatise? 

Yeah, we have a friend who's pretty senior in social services in Kent who has been seconded onto a team of consultants who are there to show them how to make "efficiency savings". God how I loathe that term.


----------



## nagapie (Sep 6, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Do you mean corporatise?
> 
> Yeah, we have a friend who's pretty senior in social services in Kent who has been seconded onto a team of consultants who are there to show them how to make "efficiency savings". God how I loathe that term.



No, I meant making them into a co-op, or maybe the word is mutualising them. Whatever the word is when they want them to run themselves rather than the council have to do it.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 6, 2014)

nagapie said:


> No, I meant making them into a co-op, or maybe the word is mutualising them. Whatever the word is when they want them to run themselves rather than the council have to do it.


I don't know how that's even possible.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 7, 2014)

Ms T said:


> I don't know how that's even possible.



Its being gradually going since last Blair government. 

However taking child protection out of direct Council control seems a step way to far to me. Council have statutory obligations re child protection. So should take direct responsibility in day to day running of it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2014)

editor said:


> I'd love to know how much of this £7 is going to security.


break it down further - security guards, and equipment, e.g. fencing to prevent gatecrashers etc.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 7, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> No, it closes at Sunset. Think we should organise a mass sit in and see if Lambeth have the balls to physically remove residents from their park


what they'll probably do is to fence off a viewing area and have that closed on the day till the punters turn up


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 7, 2014)

So the Council realise that the less well off will be excluded from this event.



> By introducing ticketing for its fireworks night Lambeth Council is making a safer event. Last year the show attracted an estimated 100,000 people which the police and fire brigade have advised is too many to manage.



I do love Lambeth press releases. 

Translated this says only those who can afford it will go. The Council know that a lot of people will not. 

As another poster said if that’s the case I would rather they drop it all together. Rather than make it an "event" that excludes people. 

Back in my youth in Plymouth people did there own bonfires. The kids would go around getting scraps of wood and gradually building a bonfire on one of the old bombsites. It was all informal. People used to buy there own fireworks. Kids would go around asking for a "a penny for the guy" ( if I remember correctly.)


----------



## kittyP (Sep 7, 2014)

The fireworks near my parents house were £7 (under 16s free also) when I was a kid. 
I am not saying I agree with what Lambeth are doing, just thought it worth mentioning. 
We never went coz it was too expensive and that was say 20 odd years ago. 
The same ones were free when I was really little. 
And the location of the park meant that you couldn't really appreciate the fireworks from anywhere outside. 

I have just looked and they are now £10 pounds for 16 and over.

It is always packed out.


----------



## kittyP (Sep 7, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> So the Council realise that the less well off will be excluded from this event.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Let's all head on mass down to Lewes


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 7, 2014)

kittyP said:


> Let's all head on mass down to Lewes



I've been meaning to go for years


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 7, 2014)

kittyP said:


> Let's all head on mass down to Lewes



Sounds like fun


> The celebrations became more and more rowdy until in 1847 police forces were drafted in from London to sort out the Bonfire Boys. There were riots and fighting,



Bonfire night still gets political in Lewes. 



> Every year, Firle Bonfire Society burns an effigy of someone who has particularly annoyed the villagers  during the past 12 months


.


A few of my Irish friends will not go to Bonfire night. As they see it as anti Catholic.( The Lewes one looks like it was a lot like that in past) To most people now its just a fireworks display. You do not see bonfires any more. The bonfire was about re enacting Fawkes being burned at the stake.

Do like the way though that Lewes is no holds barred.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 7, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> The bonfire was about re enacting Fawkes being burned at the stake.



He was hanged, drawn and quartered (although he broke his neck at the hanging part). 

I suppose an annual mock quartering would be less fun.


----------



## kittyP (Sep 7, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> Sounds like fun
> 
> 
> Bonfire night still gets political in Lewes.
> ...


Badgers dad lives a few miles from there and he remembers it being a little anti catholic as a kid but it mostly moved on to being anti lots of stuff. 
Like the year they burned an effigy of George Bush.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 7, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> He was hanged, drawn and quartered (although he broke his neck at the hanging part).
> 
> I suppose an annual mock quartering would be less fun.



I always assumed it was burning at the stake. Just realized how little I know of history of 5th November. It has changed over time. 

Bonfires only came later:



> By 1670 London apprentices had turned 5 November into a fire festival, attacking not only popery but also "sobriety and good order",[19] demanding money from coach occupants for alcohol and bonfires. The burning of effigies, largely unknown to the Jacobeans,[20] continued in 1673 when Charles's brother, the Duke of York, converted to Catholicism. In response, accompanied by a procession of about 1,000 people, the apprentices fired an effigy of the Whore of Babylon, bedecked with a range of papal symbols.[21][22] Similar scenes occurred over the following few years. In 1677 elements of Elizabeth I's Accession Day celebration of 17 November were incorporated into the Fifth, with the burning of large bonfires, a large effigy of the pope—his belly filled with live cats "who squalled most hideously as soon as they felt the fire"—and two effigies of devils "whispering in his ear".



Lewes is in the spirit of Bonfire night as it used to be. ie something that is officially sanctioned but also concerns those in power.


----------



## CH1 (Sep 8, 2014)

Lewes Bonfire Night is definitely worth a visit at least once in your life. Haven't been for several years, but it is like a carnival with a religious background,  as Gramsci says.

There are several Bonfire Societies who compete with extravagant displays - and the relevance to November 5th is not always obvious (at least to me). There is a contingent of Zulus for example (blacked-up Lewes locals). Also various other Bonfire societies take part. There whole thing takes three hours or more with the participants going on a circular route taking them down the main High Street several times.

Most businesses are boarded up - so refreshment is limited. The railway make no effort to run  late trains, so unless you want to be stranded you will miss the _*Pièce de résistance*_ which is the burning of the Pope in effigy by the Cliffe Bonfire society.

The explanation for this is maybe not obvious - but several times in the evening 17 flaming crosses process down the High Street representing the 17 Protestant martyrs burnt at Lewes under the regime of Queen (Bloody) Mary.

My feeling about this is that it is the nearest thing in England to an Orange Parade. But you have to understand history not to repeat it.


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 8, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> So the Council realise that the less well off will be excluded from this event.
> 
> I do love Lambeth press releases.
> 
> Translated this says only those who can afford it will go. The Council know that a lot of people will not.



Thanks for that link. The devil is in the detail and it is with this statement one can imagine that they might have plans for the country show:

_With pressures on the council budget, Lambeth needs help covering the bill for the hugely popular event. It ended up costing the council about £95,000 last year.
The fireworks display is one of a number of events the council puts on throughout the year, including the popular and free Lambeth Country Show which this year costs around £265,000 from the authority’s budget._


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 9, 2014)

CH1 said:


> My feeling about this is that it is the nearest thing in England to an Orange Parade. But you have to understand history not to repeat it.



I am glad kittyP enlightened me about Lewes. 

What it seems to me to be is a last bit of old riotous England that has been curtailed over the last few centuries. A loss imo.

There has been an excellent series of Radio programmes on the 18th C using court recored of the Old Bailey. Still online

The one that I was reminded of was series 3 


> For all its elegance and politeness, one of the most striking features of Georgian society is its violence. Murder cases abounded at the Old Bailey. Some were cold premeditated crimes, a tiny minority were committed by women, but the vast majority were the outcome of drunken brawls




.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 10, 2014)

Gramsci said:


> snip
> A few of my Irish friends will not go to Bonfire night. As they see it as anti Catholic.( The Lewes one looks like it was a lot like that in past) To most people now its just a fireworks display. You do not see bonfires any more. The bonfire was about re enacting Fawkes being burned at the stake.


I always assumed christians had adapted / stolen the older pagan fire festival from end of October that became Halloween


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

OK - a few more details on the 2014 display:

Lambeth Council is putting in place a 'holding area' which will accommodate 60,000 non-paying members of the public. They will be allowed to enter into the park, but not into the ticket holders area.

The fireworks will be launched from a 'vantage point' in the park that will make them visible for ticket holders only.

48,000 people are expected to buy tickets. 2,000 of these are planned as early bird buyers, 22,000 full price and 24,000 under 16's.

The total cost will be £233,807.

The net cost for the Council will be £9,807.

Three options were considered for 2014:

(i) Three displays simultaneously at Brockwell, Clapham and Streatham - total cost £163,000.

(ii) A free Brockwell display only - total cost £125,000.

(iii) The Brockwell only ticketed display.

The Council got "lucky" last year when a PA announcement asking people to leave was played at the wrong time.

*Edit*: September 17, 1:30pm:

We have received a legal letter from Whole Nine Productions Ltd, as well as correspondence from the Events Team at Lambeth Council, asking for the overlay plans document that we published to be removed. For legal reasons we have complied with this request.

We have submitted an FoI to see - _and publish_ - the document once again.


----------



## Manter (Sep 17, 2014)

How will they only be visible from the ticketed area? Are they table fireworks?!


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

Manter said:


> How will they only be visible from the ticketed area? Are they table fireworks?!



“_Ticketing for fireworks displays would only be possible at Brockwell Park due to it being a gated park and the topography of the land would lend itself well to enable this to be successful as the pyrotechnics could be positioned well at the back of the park with viewing for ticketed audience only_.”


----------



## Manter (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> “_Ticketing for fireworks displays would only be possible at Brockwell Park due to it being a gated park and the topography of the land would lend itself well to enable this to be successful as the pyrotechnics could be positioned well at the back of the park with viewing for ticketed audience only_.”


I'm in Brockwell park right now, and I still can't figure it out. Last year we could see them from our house which is the far side of Cressingham Gardens.... Even if they put them at the lowest point of the park I can't see how they will fly into the air, explode, and become invisible.... There must have been some scientific advances I missed.


----------



## Biddlybee (Sep 17, 2014)

I'm trying to work out which part of the park that is.

Is the bonfire right next to the Brockwell Hall, and the houses in the bottom right hand corner the start of Brockwell Park Gardens?


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

Biddlybee said:


> I'm trying to work out which part of the park that is.
> 
> Is the bonfire right next to the Brockwell Hall, and the houses in the bottom right hand corner the start of Brockwell Park Gardens?


Aye. Spectators in the flat bit between the hall and tennis courts. Display in the bowl area in front of Cressingham Gardens and Brockwell Park Gardens (from which there should be a decent view if the leaves have fallen...)

ETA Bonfire on lawn on opposite side of Brockwell Hall from spectators (outside the caff, where the vegetable tent is during The Show) .


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> OK - a few more details on the 2014 display:
> 
> Lambeth Council is putting in place a 'holding area' which will accommodate 60,000 non-paying members of the public. They will be allowed to enter into the park, but not into the ticket holders area.
> 
> ...


Great work on breaking this story!


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

I would be much happier seeing £163,000 of my council's council tax going towards free events - even if I did not go - than £9,000 going towards a charged and ticketed event which had been specifically redesigned to make it visible to as few people as possible. If it is going to be exclusive I'd rather they charged £8 per adult ticket or £1 per child ticket so that the event pays for itself and even made a small profit. There is no justification for it being both exclusive and subsidised.


----------



## Biddlybee (Sep 17, 2014)

Are Streatham and Clapham free?


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

Biddlybee said:


> Are Streatham and Clapham free?



Streatham and Clapham aren't happening this year - and probably never again if the wonderful new ticketing arrangement is deemed as a success. Both locations were considered as a free event, but this was slapped down.


----------



## Biddlybee (Sep 17, 2014)

Ah, my skim reading skills aren't what they were 

I might bribe Manter will a bottle of fizz  and go and watch from her garden.


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 17, 2014)

How are they going to put a bonfire on the slopey bit at the back of Herne Hill House? 

I'm assuming they'll also use fencing and Hessian to block off the views?


----------



## T & P (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> “_Ticketing for fireworks displays would only be possible at Brockwell Park due to it being a gated park and the topography of the land would lend itself well to enable this to be successful as the pyrotechnics could be positioned well at the back of the park with viewing for ticketed audience only_.”


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 17, 2014)

Manter said:


> How will they only be visible from the ticketed area? Are they table fireworks?!



It is possible.  I remember when I went to the Clapham ones and due to crowds, was unable to get anywhere near the Common.  A lot of the fireworks were obscured by trees


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> How are they going to put a bonfire on the slopey bit at the back of Herne Hill House?
> 
> I'm assuming they'll also use fencing and Hessian to block off the views?


It's the flat bit.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 17, 2014)

Looks like it has inspired Boris to charge a £10 for NYE fireworks display 100,00 crowd limit.


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## Ms Ordinary (Sep 17, 2014)

Biddlybee said:


> I'm trying to work out which part of the park that is.
> 
> Is the bonfire right next to the Brockwell Hall, and the houses in the bottom right hand corner the start of Brockwell Park Gardens?



The Walled Garden is in the blue area on the left hand side, with the clocktower / big house in the centre of the plan.

Are they trying to burn down Cressingham Gardens if the wind blows the wrong way ?
(Did someone already mention this earlier...?)


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

Ms Ordinary said:


> Are they trying to burn down Cressingham Gardens if the wind blows the wrong way ?



Ahhhhh - now it all makes sense. Maybe we should merge the two threads:
*Lambeth Labour's plan to demolish Cressingham Gardens & build luxury flats around Brockwell Park*


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

A tweet from a 'Labour activist' this morning


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> OK - a few more details on the 2014 display:
> 
> The fireworks will be launched from a 'vantage point' in the park that will make them visible for ticket holders only.



This has to be a wind up. Stand anywhere on the perimeter and look upwards


----------



## T & P (Sep 17, 2014)

Or more likely scaremongering so people are coerced into buying tickets.

The more I think about this, the more of a bunch of lowlife scum* the council is coming across.

* ETA: Language voluntarily toned down because it wouldn't surprise me if the council tried to threaten more legal action from any angle they can get.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

We've been asked by Lambeth Council to delete the document on Brixton Buzz.

We are considering our response.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> We've been asked by Lambeth Council to delete the document on Brixton Buzz.
> 
> We are considering our response.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2014)

Does what Lambeth - or a private consulting company - decides to be 'confidential' have any actual legal weight in the real world?


----------



## Winot (Sep 17, 2014)

editor said:


> Does what Lambeth - or a private consulting company - decides to be 'confidential' have any actual legal weight in the real world?



Depends how the document was acquired.  Happy to give my opinion (FWIW) via PM if you want.


----------



## T & P (Sep 17, 2014)

You should get any Urbanite lawyers to look into this right away.

ETA: beaten to it ^


----------



## MAD-T-REX (Sep 17, 2014)

Edit: Never mind. Will leave it to the experts/lawyers.


----------



## pesh (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> We've been asked by Lambeth Council to delete the document on Brixton Buzz.
> 
> We are considering our response.



while you have them on the line, ask them how much they got for pimping out Clapham Common to Live Nation all summer and put it to them that maybe they could use that money to pay for a fireworks display or 3.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

Plus the Net Cost for the fireworks is under £10k.

The 'silly mistake' that led to the Knight's Hill by-election was over £15k


----------



## paolo (Sep 17, 2014)

I've just spotted on the plan - Arcadia's Lords of Lightning are booked.


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## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

Legal letters have been sent to Brixton Buzz from Whole Nine Yards Productions Ltd, threatening further action if the pdf's weren't deleted. We have complied.

We've also slapped in an FoI to see - _and publish_ - the overlay plans.

Again.


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 17, 2014)

From the plan it appears that they can predict the prevailing wind in advance


----------



## paolo (Sep 17, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> From the plan it appears that they can predict the prevailing wind in advance



London's prevailing winds are westerlies.


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 17, 2014)

Got it. They plan to have the display in that small ring of trees that are off the path to the right down from the Hall. Fireworks not to go further than the top of the tree canopy.


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## snowy_again (Sep 17, 2014)

They managed to do some of that last year - I was against the wall of the walled garden and lots of the fireworks were only about 25 foot high things...


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## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Legal letters have been sent to Brixton Buzz from Whole Nine Yards Productions Ltd, threatening further action if the pdf's weren't deleted. We have complied.
> 
> We've also slapped in an FoI to see - _and publish_ - the overlay plans.
> 
> Again.


To be honest - the plan is neither here nor there. It is the council's report from which quotes have been lifted that I have a problem with, most specifically the way they are actively seeking to relocate the event after decades in roughly the same spot, _expressly_ in order to prevent non payers from being able to see the fireworks which our council taxes are subsidising, even if it is at a reduced cost. This I am not happy with.

It should not be exclusive. But if it really has to be made exclusive through pricing to control numbers then it absolutely must be self funding and probably profit making to help fund other services or events.

In summary the plans show spectator area on the grass land between the Hall and the tennis courts. The display will be held in the dip between them and Cressingham Gardens / Brockwell Park Gardens.  In effect, this will be the view.






The bonfire will be an isolated event on the flat lawn on the other (south) side of the hall, here:




Everything to the East of the hall and tennis courts - more or less where the event has historicaly been held - will be holding area from which it is intended people will not be able to see fireworks or the bonfire. The area where the circus normally sets up close to the Herne Hill entrance will be parking for the event organisers.


----------



## T & P (Sep 17, 2014)

Would be a terrible and naughty thing to publish a map that suggests to the public alternative vantage points from which one is likely to have a clear view of the fireworks without having to pay for the privilege? I wouldn't want to erode earnings for the council, like...


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

As long as the leaves have fallen the best vantage points will probably be Brockwell Park Gardens and (sorry Greebo) Cressingham Gardens.
And apparently Manter 's home...


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 17, 2014)

Totally agree with you Rushy. why should we subside an event that is ticketed and precludes a huge swathe of residents. I was thinking about the fireworks this morning and how they are one of the few things that people in Lambeth on low incomes with no spare cash can enjoy.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 17, 2014)

And not only are they asking us to subsidise it, they are using our park and getting all bully boy about people showing details of it.


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## 299 old timer (Sep 17, 2014)

If I have made any errors please correct me. Incidentally the highest point of the park is up by Cressingham Gardens...

Park opening and closing times:- 7.30am to 15 minutes before sunset.

Fireworks event (from the Lambeth site):-
Next event: Wednesday 5 November 2014 5pm to 10pm

Sunset time in London for 05/11/2014 (taken from Uk.weather.com) 16:26

So at a guess they will be ushering non ticket holders out of the park around 16.00 so they can man the gates in preparation for the event.


----------



## T & P (Sep 17, 2014)

I think we need to make a big noise about this, PDFs or not. I'd love to get the ball rolling but wouldn't know where or how to start. But I can imagine some local press or perhaps the Rotten Boroughs column on Private Eye might be interested...


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> So at a guess they will be ushering non ticket holders out of the park around 16.00 so they can man the gates in preparation for the event.



My understanding is that the main park gates won't be closed. The pleb 'holding pen' will be able to accommodate 60,000 non-paying / viewing people.

From memory from the now removed pdf, the ticketed viewing area will be secured with:

a 2m high anti-climb mesh fence, a hi-hoard / steel shield, a 1.5m wide heavy duty D-foot barrier and a 2.5m wide crowd control barrier (phew…)

This will be constructed in the park in the few days leading up to the event. You'd have to be an early camper to remain in there.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

T & P said:


> I think we need to make a big noise about this, PDFs or not. I'd love to get the ball rolling but wouldn't know where or how to start. But I can imagine some local press or perhaps the Rotten Boroughs column on Private Eye might be interested...


I reckon you could do worse than look for tweets complaining about Boris introducing a charge for NYE fireworks (lots going around) and reply with tweet about Lambeth fireworks


----------



## Greebo (Sep 17, 2014)

Rushy said:


> As long as the leaves have fallen the best vantage points will probably be Brockwell Park Gardens and (sorry Greebo) Cressingham Gardens. <snip>


FWIW some years you get a better view if you watch the reflections of the fireworks in the windows of the flats along the highest level of Hardel Walk, instead of directly facing the park and trying to see anything that way.


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> a 2m high anti-climb mesh fence, a hi-hoard / steel shield, a 1.5m wide heavy duty D-foot barrier and a 2.5m wide crowd control barrier (phew…)



Is this a war zone? Unfuckingbelievable!


----------



## kittyP (Sep 17, 2014)

Why have they got a "holding pen" for 60,000 people? 
Why would 100 people, let alone 60,000, turn up to stand in the dark and not watch fireworks?


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

kittyP said:


> Why have they got a "holding pen" for 60,000 people?
> Why would 100 people, let alone 60,000, turn up to stand in the dark and not watch fireworks?



Because the message might not get out to all people wanting to attend that this is a ticketed event. I would have no idea of estimates, but I'd imagine there will be a lot of people strolling up to Brockwell Park in the evening and then having something of a shock.


----------



## kittyP (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Because the message might not get out to all people wanting to attend that this is a ticketed event. I would have no idea of estimates, but I'd imagine there will be a lot of people strolling up to Brockwell Park in the evening and then having something of a shock.



Hmm yeah


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Because the message might not get out to all people wanting to attend that this is a ticketed event. I would have no idea of estimates, but I'd imagine there will be a lot of people strolling up to Brockwell Park in the evening and then having something of a shock.



Following that line of thought it would be logical to think that there will be very many unhappy folk about.


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 17, 2014)

As this is an event as opposed to a public display I'm wondering if there will be a free guest list for council insiders and VIP's


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I reckon you could do worse than look for tweets complaining about Boris introducing a charge for NYE fireworks (lots going around) and reply with tweet about Lambeth fireworks



...like Sadiq Khan, talking up his Labour Mayoral hopes on the back of the Boris decision?

Whoops.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> ...like Sadiq Khan, talking up his Labour Mayoral hopes on the back of the Boris decision?
> 
> Whoops.



Exactly!

How about Tessa Jowell?


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Exactly!
> 
> How about Tessa Jowell?
> 
> View attachment 61193



OUCH.

Even closer to home. Parts of Brixton are in Dame Tessa's chuffing constituency!


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 17, 2014)

Rushy said:


> How about Tessa Jowell?



I would imagine her gold ticket for the Lambeth event is already in the post along with a complimentary packet of sparklers


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 17, 2014)

She's probably on the VIP freebie guest list

edit: beaten to it


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

Only just twigged - her constituency includes Brockwell Park!

Fucking hypocrisy of these careerists


----------



## kittyP (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Only just twigged - her constituency includes Brockwell Park!
> 
> Fucking hypocrisy of these careerists



I may be naive but maybe she doesn't know? Would they run this type of thing past the local MP? 
Maybe someone could contact her including her tweet in it and ask if she can do anything?


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Only just twigged - her constituency includes Brockwell Park!
> 
> Fucking hypocrisy of these careerists


Exactly!
Everyone should be tweeting her RIGHT NOW!


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)




----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 17, 2014)

I just did my first ever twatter to Tessa on the issue


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


>



This is quite fun, actually.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 17, 2014)

I have no idea how to use it, have avoided it totally up until now. I've added Chukka so I'll try to work out how to send it to him


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

Ahh - so here's a local Lambeth Labour Cllr now retweeting Dame Tessa.

WEIRD - or just a little dense?


----------



## pesh (Sep 17, 2014)

i just did my first polite tweet.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 17, 2014)

I've done more Tweets today than I did in the five years since I've had the account (that's not many TBF, but it's a start!)


----------



## kittyP (Sep 17, 2014)

I don't know if I have don't it right as I don't use twitter but I had a go


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 17, 2014)

Same here (1), how do I forward my tweet to Chuka and other politicians?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 17, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> It is possible.  I remember when I went to the Clapham ones and due to crowds, was unable to get anywhere near the Common.  A lot of the fireworks were obscured by trees


Clapham common has been ruined by the summer long (private) events, There is no grass left and has sunk in parts and probably wouldn't get a safety certificate in it's current state.


----------



## kittyP (Sep 17, 2014)

Right, so this holding pen thing again. 

If it's to hold people that turn up not knowing that it is no longer free. 
I take it that is because  just turning people away at the gate would cause major crowd issues in the streets and roads surrounding the park. 

So, are they going to hold people against there will while not showing them any fireworks?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 17, 2014)

Can someone cut and paste the Jowell tweets from people on here 'cos I can't view them as I've not been on Twatter for ages, so can't remember password


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)




----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)




----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

kittyP said:


> So, are they going to hold people against there will while not showing them any fireworks?



I very much doubt it. Like this whole project, the wording has been poorly thought out. It's not so much a 'holding area' but a 'keep out' area. Anyone entering the park will be free to leave as and when. They just won't have access to the fireworks if they aren't prepared to pay.


----------



## kittyP (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> I very much doubt it. Like this whole project, the wording has been poorly thought out. It's not so much a 'holding area' but a 'keep out' area. Anyone entering the park will be free to leave as and when. They just won't have access to the fireworks if they aren't prepared to pay.



Ah OK


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 17, 2014)

No response from Tessa..


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 17, 2014)

Cheers Tricky Skills 

Feel free to post more up as and when


----------



## Smick (Sep 17, 2014)

the presence of 100,000 people last year is used as a justification for charging in, yet it seems that they have planned for that when you combine the capacity of their poverty pen with first class. I'll bet it will have people selling the same shite. And pricey fairground rides.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 17, 2014)

Here's a Brixton Buzz piece on the Jowell utter hypocrisy.

Ta for the heads up with the tweet Rushy.


----------



## gaijingirl (Sep 17, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> a 2m high anti-climb mesh fence, a hi-hoard / steel shield, a 1.5m wide heavy duty D-foot barrier and a 2.5m wide crowd control barrier (phew…)



Christ - that's a depressing sentence right there... just awful.


----------



## kittyP (Sep 17, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> Christ - that's a depressing sentence right there... just awful.



Isn't it just!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 18, 2014)

Has Jowell responded to any tweets yet?


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 18, 2014)

No.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 18, 2014)

Nor mine.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 18, 2014)

Thought I'd take this opportunity to find out how Twitter works actually works so I read this http://www.momthisishowtwitterworks.com/

Now I'm _really _confused


----------



## kittyP (Sep 18, 2014)

No nothing on mine although I guess today is a little distracting


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 18, 2014)

pesh said:


> while you have them on the line, ask them how much they got for pimping out Clapham Common to Live Nation all summer and put it to them that maybe they could use that money to pay for a fireworks display or 3.



Half of Kennington Park is currently under canvas for the London Oktoberfest, no doubt this is a good earner for the council at the same time depriving the community of substantial chunk of green space for two long weekends.
http://www.london-oktoberfest.co.uk/
This is a double bubble on the hypocrisy front as this yuppie drink fest encourages exactly the sort of anti social behaviour that park drinkers are unfairly pilloried for but on a humungous scale..........


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> Half of Kennington Park is currently under canvas for the London Oktoberfest, no doubt this is a good earner for the council at the same time depriving the community of substantial chunk of green space for two long weekends.
> http://www.london-oktoberfest.co.uk/
> This is a double bubble on the hypocrisy front as this yuppie drink fest encourages exactly the sort of anti social behaviour that park drinkers are unfairly pilloried for but on a humungous scale..........


It's like Windrush Square all over again. 
Street drinkers = out, people with money drinking in the same place = just dandy.


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 18, 2014)

editor said:


> It's like Windrush Square all over again.
> Street drinkers = out, people with money drinking in the same place = just dandy.



or alternatively if you are a longstanding off license who sells single cans to individuals you could lose your license whereas if you are a pop up operation thst wants to serve huge jugs of lager to hordes of party people whipped into a frenzy by rednex cotton eye joe and oompah music from a big top on a public space you are more than welcome......


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 18, 2014)

London Oktoberfest is great, but the bar is too short. Only 2 days out of 8 have an entrance charge


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 18, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> London Oktoberfest is great, but the bar is too short. Only 2 days out of 8 have an entrance charge



*Our guests said:*
Thanks for a fantastic Oktoberfest - there is a very special atmosphere in the tent. 

*Sarah G.,
Kennington.*
I never thought I would stand on the benches and sing along - I'll definitely be back. 

*George H.,
Canary Wharf.*
We're just as good at partying as those in Munich, great beer. 

*James. P, 
Hoxton.*

*Deals*


*Section Plan:*








Thursday (18/9+25/9+2/10+9/10), Friday (19/9+26/9+3/10+10/10), Saturday (20/9+27/9+4/10+11/10), Sunday (21/9+28/9+5/10+12/10) 

Sectionrice:
Thursday, FridayPrice:
SaturdayPrice:
Sunday (only one beer)
A£ 34£ 44 £ 26
VIP£ 50£ 60£ 42
B£ 34£ 44£ 26
C£ 34£ 44£ 26

The above mentioned price is for our food and beer package including seat reservation. Be aware Thursday 18.9 plus £10 due to REDNEX - CUTTON EYE JOE live concert. 

*Offer Packages:*


Select the section you want to sit in, we fill the places from the front, so first booked, first seated up front. If you need more seats later please remember to book in the same name, so that we can place you together. If you like your own Lederhosen/Dirndl look under our Oktoberfest shop. 

*Choose from the following:* 

*Offer £34 Thursday/Friday and Saturday £44 (normally £35.80/45.8): Sunday less one beer £26*


Seat reservation (together)
Snacks 
2 x 1.5 pints of beer or 1 bottle of white/red wine (+£3 in the tent) 
1 German Schnitzel with special Bavarian potato salad
Dessert Surprise (specially adapted to the Oktoberfest)


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 18, 2014)

Voucher Code:


*VIP seats Thursday/Friday £50 and Saturday £60. Sunday with 1 beer less £42. VIP-seat reservation is valid till 20:00 all days.*


1 glass of Schlumberger Sekt "Champagne like product" from Austria
Seat Reservation (seats together, special VIP rest area) 
Snacks 
2 x 1.5 pints of beer or 1 bottle of white/red wine (+£3 in the tent) 
1 VIP main course
Dessert Surprise (specially adapted to the Oktoberfest)

Section: ";
Number:
Date:
Voucher Code:


*Seat reservation and the first Beer £13.5 (Sat £18.5) good seats in section C and one giant 1.5 pint German Oktoberfest beer 5.0%)*


Section: ";
Number:
Date:


*GOLD VIP one of 48 seats direct in front oft the stage/dance floor*


Price £80 p.p. including:

1 glass of Schlumberger Sekt "Champagne like product" from Austria 
Seat Reservation (seats together, special VIP rest area) 
Snacks 
2 x 1.5 pints of beer or 1 bottle of white/red wine (+£3 in the tent) 
1 VIP main course - free choice from the Menucard 
Dessert Surprise (specially adapted to the Oktoberfest)


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 19, 2014)

Had a few beers so not sure what that means....


----------



## 299 old timer (Sep 19, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> Had a few beers so not sure what that means....



It means the council thinks it's great that it can make money out of such an event, but it's not so great for a store to sell a can, as the council can't make money out of that particular transaction.


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 19, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> London Oktoberfest is great, but the bar is too short. Only 2 days out of 8 have an entrance charge


I'd be interested to know what is so great about this event that would justify depriving the local community of the bulk of a popular park for 2 weeks, from what I have I have seen for myself and from what I have been told it appeals to a very narrow demographic, a large proportion of which is made of corporate block bookings, whose sole mission is to get as shitfaced as possible........


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 19, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> Had a few beers so not sure what that means....



It means dosh,wonga,bread,readies,folding,corn,spondoolies, get my drift?


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 19, 2014)

All I said was it is free entry on 6 out of 8 days as far as I know. And you don't have to pay for a table unless you want to prebook.

Unless it's changed for this year


----------



## leanderman (Sep 19, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> I'd be interested to know what is so great about this event that would justify depriving the local community of the bulk of a popular park for 2 weeks, from what I have I have seen for myself and from what I have been told it appeals to a very narrow demographic, a large proportion of which is made of corporate block bookings, whose sole mission is to get as shitfaced as possible........



Very true. And correct use of 'local community'!


----------



## Tricky Skills (Sep 22, 2014)

Another detail to add the fireworks: Lambeth Council has admitted that it failed to consult over the decision to charge for the display this year. This goes against the Council's own Co-operative Constitution [pdf].

Smells like a done deal all along to me


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 22, 2014)

Nice. 

Has JowellT replied to anyone now that the Scottish dust has settled?


----------



## Biddlybee (Sep 22, 2014)

Did Tessa ever reply?


----------



## Rushy (Sep 22, 2014)

No.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 22, 2014)

No reply at all for Tessa


----------



## cuppa tee (Sep 22, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> All I said was it is free entry on 6 out of 8 days as far as I know. And you don't have to pay for a table unless you want to prebook.
> 
> Unless it's changed for this year



You said the Oktoberfest was "great" as well but you haven't said why you are of this opinion and whether the benefits visited on the area justify the community being deprived of a large green space.
After the first weekend I am hearing people complaining about the event and the noise and nuisance it creates, also that the damage to the fabric of the park last year cost £200,000 pounds to put right and made a
large section of it unusuable until february........

*apologies for the slight deviation to the thread


----------



## sparkybird (Sep 22, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Another detail to add the fireworks: Lambeth Council has admitted that it failed to consult over the decision to charge for the display this year. This goes against the Council's own Co-operative Constitution [pdf].
> 
> Smells like a done deal all along to me



You really couldn't make it up, could you????


----------



## friendofdorothy (Sep 22, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Voucher Code:
> 
> 
> *VIP seats Thursday/Friday £50 and Saturday £60. Sunday with 1 beer less £42. VIP-seat reservation is valid till 20:00 all days.*
> ...


That sound confusing. and expensive. So you can't just walk and have a pint, or a litre, then?  This needs its own thread.


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 22, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> You said the Oktoberfest was "great" as well but you haven't said why you are of this opinion and whether the benefits visited on the area justify the community being deprived of a large green space.
> After the first weekend I am hearing people complaining about the event and the noise and nuisance it creates, also that the damage to the fabric of the park last year cost £200,000 pounds to put right and made a
> large section of it unusuable until february........
> 
> *apologies for the slight deviation to the thread



Call me simplistic, but I like it because it's a beer festival. Don't think I've been to a beer festival I didn't like.... I didn't like a cider festival I went to once; but cider tastes like sweet piss to me.


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 2, 2014)

So slightly back on topic:

http://www.eventlambeth.co.uk/events/fireworks-faqs/

(via https://www.facebook.com/lambethcountryshow?fref=nf); and
https://www.facebook.com/events/569767213150707/?fref=ts

You can buy* tickets online, via a library or via a phone line that costs "(10p/min plus standard network charges)" 

I'm not sure the latter is even legal nowadays? 

And then: 
"A maximum of 10 adult tickets and 4 under 16s tickets only can be booked per transaction." Hmm, that's going to work isn't it? 

* I'm not going to.


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 2, 2014)

Oh and to get the £1 off 'for Lambeth residents' you just seem to have to enter a Lambeth post code and then select e-tickets - so you don't have to be a Lambeth resident at all. Clever.


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 2, 2014)

I'm doing work procastination - SeeTickets have been contracted the ticketing process. 

There's a clause that says that unless you present the credit/debit card you purchased the tickets with, you won't gain entry. Unless they're going for full festival type ticket portacabins that also is going to be either difficult to implement or will be abandoned.

Ticket Spend breakdown is here:


----------



## kittyP (Oct 2, 2014)

No I never heard back from Tessa either


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 2, 2014)

In my FB trawl, there's a number of annoyed Southwark residents who live 100m from the park who are complaining that they aren't eligible for early bird £1 off tickets too, despite losing out on access to park, getting the additional traffic woes etc.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 2, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> I'm doing work procastination - SeeTickets have been contracted the ticketing process.
> 
> There's a clause that says that unless you present the credit/debit card you purchased the tickets with, you won't gain entry. Unless they're going for full festival type ticket portacabins that also is going to be either difficult to implement or will be abandoned.
> 
> Ticket Spend breakdown is here:



So ticketing and security alone cost 2.2 x the cost of the actual fireworks. 

For. Fuck's. Sake.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 2, 2014)

I had to use "See tickets" for a football match at Wembley, The whole procedure was time consuming and they wanted additional money for a prompt delivery.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 2, 2014)

Rushy said:


> So ticketing and security alone cost 2.2 x the cost of the actual fireworks.
> 
> For. Fuck's. Sake.


The least amounts have been spent on Health and safety and medical, Both essential to holding this event but it seems the private companies benefit most.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 2, 2014)

We've now had the two FoI's relating to the fireworks answered by Lambeth Council. They've been quite clever - they've called our bluff...

The first FoI asked for a copy of the Overlay Plan that was originally published on Brixton Buzz and over here on 17 September. We received legal letters straight away from Lambeth Council and Whole Nine Yards, the production company, demanding that we take the doc down from the servers.

Our legal funds are limited. We reluctantly obliged.

Whole Nine Yards actually suggested that we slap in an FoI if we wanted to republish the document. This being despite the fact that a copy currently currently sits unpublished on my hard drive.

And so the FoI went in, and today the response came back. Lambeth Council is essentially saying that you've already got the document, and so there's no point in sending it on again.

What the Council is really saying is that we're not going to send on the doc via the FoI, as this will involve putting it out in the public domain. If you want to republish it, you take the legal consequences.

Clever.

Crafty.

For those that got to see the plans before we took them down, you may remember that they were quite revealing. They included the extraordinary security wall being erected within the park, as well as the exact location to launch the fireworks so that non-paying punters can't see them.

The meanies.

Our second FoI asked for a breakdown of the costs for the 2013 display. We wanted to compare and contrast these figures with 2014. We've had a little more luck with this. The Council has pre-empted the request and self-published.

I'm no data expert, but my observations are that the 2014 display will cost £107,161 more than the 2013 display. Plus despite being advertised as a better fireworks display, the sponsorship income for 2014 is somehow £8,000 less than 2013.

Full geeky figures over here.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 2, 2014)

Good work


----------



## Winot (Oct 2, 2014)

Surely it just needs a third party to put in an equivalent FOI Tricky Skills?


----------



## brixtonblade (Oct 2, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> And so the FoI went in, and today the response came back. Lambeth Council is essentially saying that you've already got the document, and so there's no point in sending it on again.
> 
> What the Council is really saying is that we're not going to send on the doc via the FoI, as this will involve putting it out in the public domain. If you want to republish it, you take the legal consequences.



I'm not really up on how this works but what's to stop someone else putting a request in (however that works) or for tht matter using exactly the same request you used?


----------



## Manter (Oct 2, 2014)

Winot said:


> Surely it just needs a third party to put in an equivalent FOI Tricky Skills?


this.  PM me details and I am happy to do it


----------



## 299 old timer (Oct 3, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> And so the FoI went in, and today the response came back. Lambeth Council is essentially saying that you've already got the document, and so there's no point in sending it on again.
> 
> What the Council is really saying is that we're not going to send on the doc via the FoI, as this will involve putting it out in the public domain. If you want to republish it, you take the legal consequences.
> 
> ...



Thanks for this. What's to stop you from putting up a rough sketch loosely based (cough cough) on the original document, with some crafty wording as cover?
"This sketch approximates the plan for the event, etc etc"


----------



## Rushy (Oct 3, 2014)

I'll happily draw it up from memory - only thing I can't quite remember is where Tessa Jowell's private box was to be placed?


----------



## 299 old timer (Oct 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I'll happily draw it up from memory - only thing I can't quite remember is where Tessa Jowell's private box was to be placed?



Those new parody laws could come in quite useful


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 3, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> Thanks for this. What's to stop you from putting up a rough sketch loosely based (cough cough) on the original document, with some crafty wording as cover?
> "This sketch approximates the plan for the event, etc etc"



From memory, this is an exact replication of the document that Lambeth Council threatened us with legal action with unless we removed it from the server.

Disclaimer: my memory 'aint what it use to be.


----------



## 299 old timer (Oct 3, 2014)

And Tessa will probably be tweeting about Boris whilst sat there too. These people have no shame.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 3, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> From memory, this is an exact replication of the document that Lambeth Council threatened us with legal action with unless we removed it from the server.
> 
> Disclaimer: my memory 'aint what it use to be.



Please please please please please tweet her that


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 3, 2014)

Maybe that blob isn't Tessa but the guy, unless Tessa's the Guy?


----------



## gaijingirl (Oct 3, 2014)

ahahahahaha!   that needs to go viral - and possibly be flyposted around HH/TH/Brixton!


----------



## shakespearegirl (Oct 3, 2014)

Tessa doesn't bother replying to tweets


----------



## Gniewosz (Oct 3, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> We've now had the two FoI's relating to the fireworks answered by Lambeth Council. They've been quite clever - they've called our bluff...
> 
> The first FoI asked for a copy of the Overlay Plan that was originally published on Brixton Buzz and over here on 17 September. We received legal letters straight away from Lambeth Council and Whole Nine Yards, the production company, demanding that we take the doc down from the servers.
> 
> ...




Ask for an Internal Review.  Lambeth did a similar response for one of my FoIs (https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/planned_works_2)... essentially argued that I already had a copy and hence they didn't have to send again.  I simply requested an internal review on the following grounds: 


> The majority of the documentation that I am personally given at the
> Project Team meeting is classified confidential by Lambeth and
> hence should have no bearing on how you answer this Freedom of
> Information request.
> ...



Good luck!


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 3, 2014)

Gniewosz said:


> Ask for an Internal Review.  Good luck!



Good shout 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/overlay_plans_for_brockwell_park#outgoing-389891


----------



## SpamMisery (Oct 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Only thing I can't quite remember is where Tessa Jowell's private box was to be placed?



[insert witty joke about Tessa Jowell's private box]


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 4, 2014)

I see that a second FoI has gone in


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 8, 2014)

The Lambeth FB sites seem to be doing a good job at deleting any messages commenting on the new entrance charge.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 10, 2014)

An update on process for traders wanting a pitch at the fireworks...

Brixton Buzz reported last month how Lambeth Events is operating a 'name your own price' for any traders. We've made contact with one local trader, who has asked to remain anonymous for legal reasons.

Last year they paid £100 for a pitch at the fireworks. They suggested the same price for this year. Lambeth Events rejected this and stated that other traders were putting in bids for £200. The trader managed to get them down to £150.

They then asked for details about footfall. Lambeth Events was unable to provide this because of 'commercial confidentiality.'

The trader walked away.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 10, 2014)

I really hope this sells out. Every ticket unsold will be another £7 by which the rest of us has funded these deliberately exclusive fireworks.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 15, 2014)

Looks like Streatham is getting a free display. But no fireworks...


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2014)

Everyone can enjoy this event!

If you pay £7.


----------



## sparkybird (Oct 15, 2014)

Yes and at a time too early for many people to attend


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Looks like Streatham is getting a free display. But no fireworks...


They've got a bonfire though. A part of me thinks that is nicer anyway. The sky will be full of fireworks anyway.


----------



## kittyP (Oct 15, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Looks like Streatham is getting a free display. But no fireworks...



That sounds quite nice actually. 
It's close(ish) to Diwali time too.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 15, 2014)

An FoI update.

The second FoI (not from me) asking to see the Brockwell Park fireworks plan has been refused [pdf] on grounds of chuffing Health and Safety. Just what is it that they are trying to hide?

If Brixton Buzz had the public money that Lambeth Council is able to spunk away on legal funds, I'd call their bluff and just re-publish the doc.

Fuck 'em.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 15, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> on grounds of chuffing Health and Safety. Just what is it that they are trying to hide?


----------



## shakespearegirl (Oct 15, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> An FoI update.
> 
> The second FoI (not from me) asking to see the Brockwell Park fireworks plan has been refused [pdf] on grounds of chuffing Health and Safety. Just what is it that they are trying to hide?
> 
> ...



What the fuck. It's a fireworks display that we are subsidising, not a NATO convention! Surely it's in the interests of health and safety for local residents to understand the plans and avoid blocked off areas


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 15, 2014)

It'll be pretty obvious in the days leading up to Nov 5 what the plan is - they'll have to have the fence in place a day or so before. We can just walk into the park and look. 

I reckon it'll be something like this:


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 15, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> It'll be pretty obvious in the days leading up to Nov 5 what the plan is - they'll have to have the fence in place a day or so before. We can just walk into the park and look.
> 
> I reckon it'll be something like this:



That's great, but it's missing a bonfire with an MP on it


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 16, 2014)

I reckon it's also a recipe for a safety nightmare: 60,000 elated, slightly pissed people, many a bit pissed off, all vying for a spot to see the fireworks….


----------



## 299 old timer (Oct 16, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> An FoI update.
> 
> The second FoI (not from me) asking to see the Brockwell Park fireworks plan has been refused [pdf] on grounds of chuffing Health and Safety. Just what is it that they are trying to hide?



_"I can confirm that the Council holds the information you requested. However we are withholding that information since we consider that the qualified exemption set out in Section 38 (Health and safety) applies to the information requested and releasing the information would open the council up to public safety and security risks" 
_
This is a crock of shit. Due to the nature of charging for the event and not adequately informing the public as to exactly how the evening is to go ahead (security, access, fencing, costs etc) it comes as a no-brainer that there very well might be public safety and security issues.
Having seen the pdf when it was first posted here I can confirm that all it did was illustrate the siting of the area for the paid display, and the other area for those outside that area.
The area is in the dip, round about where the cricket strip is, leading up to the café, if memory serves.


----------



## Manter (Oct 16, 2014)

It's not H&S, it's ill-temper that has made them withhold it. They are as unprofessional as they are avaricious


----------



## Smick (Oct 16, 2014)

I'd imagine that their argument is that opening the plans to the wider public will lead to lots of people showing up to a non charging part of the park, leading to a health and safety nightmare.

But I'd imagine that unless they want to move the site each year, they can't keep it secret for too long.


----------



## 299 old timer (Oct 16, 2014)

Smick said:


> I'd imagine that their argument is that opening the plans to the wider public will lead to lots of people showing up to a non charging part of the park, leading to a health and safety nightmare.
> 
> But I'd imagine that unless they want to move the site each year, they can't keep it secret for too long.



They may well try and say that, but it is an excuse full of holes, because up to this year many thousands have attended a free show, generally standing in a wider perimeter than what could be expected for this year. When one adds the 10s of thousands who attend the Country Show over the two days into the equation, it becomes fairly obvious that they are making excuses to attempt to justify charging this year.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 16, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> They may well try and say that, but it is an excuse full of holes, because up to this year many thousands have attended a free show, generally standing in a wider perimeter than what could be expected for this year. When one adds the 10s of thousands who attend the Country Show over the two days into the equation, it becomes fairly obvious that they are making excuses to attempt to justify charging this year.



Lambeth'd probably say they are facing enormous budget problems and can't afford bread and circuses. Sad.


----------



## Ms T (Oct 16, 2014)

I think part of the problem is that nearly everyone charges for fireworks these days. So a free display in a fairly central location would be totally swamped. That's what happened last year, when I'd never seen it so busy.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 16, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> Having seen the pdf when it was first posted here I can confirm that all it did was illustrate the siting of the area for the paid display, and the other area for those outside that area.
> The area is in the dip, round about where the cricket strip is, leading up to the café, if memory serves.


If that's right, it will be easy to see the fireworks from Brockwell Park Gardens, or anywhere on Cressingham.


----------



## 299 old timer (Oct 22, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> If that's right, it will be easy to see the fireworks from Brockwell Park Gardens, or anywhere on Cressingham.



It was definitely on that side of the park, so yes, I would have thought visible from BPG and Cressingham.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 25, 2014)

It seems that the reason that the Overplay Plan can't be published has now shifted from copyright infringement to preventing a terrorist threat at Brockwell Park.


----------



## Greebo (Oct 25, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> It was definitely on that side of the park, so yes, I would have thought visible from BPG and Cressingham.


Even if you stand on the mounds, there are some blind spots, but we'll see.


----------



## Manter (Oct 25, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> It seems that the reason that the Overplay Plan can't be published has now shifted from copyright infringement to preventing a terrorist threat at Brockwell Park.


Oh good grief


----------



## Greebo (Oct 25, 2014)

Manter said:


> Oh good grief


Code for "we reckon that some of the local tenants might embarrass us by telling outsiders what we want to do with at least one estate bordering the park".  Yes, I am that paranoid, or Lambeth is!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 25, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> It seems that the reason that the Overplay Plan can't be published has now shifted from copyright infringement to preventing a terrorist threat at Brockwell Park.



You what?!

FFS


----------



## T & P (Oct 26, 2014)

I've noticed they've put up a canvas banner by the south entrance to the park, inviting people to join the fun. On much smaller font it is disclosed tickets can be purchased from £6.

If I owned a felt pen of any appropriate size I'd be altering said banner with a few observations.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2014)

T & P said:


> I've noticed they've put up a canvas banner by the south entrance to the park, inviting people to join the fun. On much smaller font it is disclosed tickets can be purchased from £6.
> 
> If I owned a felt pen of any appropriate size I'd be altering said banner with a few observations.



Make it £60 so nobody will cough up and they'll decide it was a bad idea


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 26, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> It seems that the reason that the Overplay Plan can't be published has now shifted from copyright infringement to preventing a terrorist threat at Brockwell Park.


That is a bloody lame excuse from Lambeth, If they fear a terrorist threat surely it would be safer(and cheaper) for all concerned to cancel it all together.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> That is a bloody lame excuse from Lambeth, If they fear a terrorist threat surely it would be safer(and cheaper) for all concerned to cancel it all together.



Nobody will ever find out where the Chucklehead Cider's going to be at next year's LCC now


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 26, 2014)

Ms T said:


> I think part of the problem is that nearly everyone charges for fireworks these days. So a free display in a fairly central location would be totally swamped. That's what happened last year, when I'd never seen it so busy.



This is it. Every year me and my friends look for free events and go to the ones that don't cost but there are fewer of the free ones each year. They're going to have to charge to stop the overspill...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2014)

But why are more and more people going to displays?  Has there been a massive population explosion in London or is it because people realise it's safer to go to organised displays?  

Has to be the latter, and how many accidents, due to people buying their own, before someone realises it was a big mistake charging


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2014)

BTW:  There's a free one in Southwark which I thought of going to, but now I'm going to be elsewhere so won't be seeing any


----------



## Ms T (Oct 26, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> But why are more and more people going to displays?  Has there been a massive population explosion in London or is it because people realise it's safer to go to organised displays?
> 
> Has to be the latter, and how many accidents, due to people buying their own, before someone realises it was a big mistake charging


London's population is growing, but I'm not sure more people are going to organised displays. Especially as most are no longer free.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 26, 2014)

Ms T said:


> London's population is growing, but I'm not sure more people are going to organised displays. Especially as most are no longer free.



Maybe the extra population are ALL going to Brockwell Park's then as it was free


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 27, 2014)

A press release from Lambeth Council. It feels the need to state:

"The fireworks is one of a number of events the council puts on throughout the year, including the popular and free Lambeth Country Show which this year cost around £265,000 from the authority’s budget."


----------



## christonabike (Oct 27, 2014)

It's sold out the residents tickets

I live nearby so will probably wander over to the park and see what's what


----------



## christonabike (Oct 27, 2014)

But there are still full price tickets available

Haha bunch of cunts, they really are


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Oct 27, 2014)

Comrades, I must confess: I am going behind enemy lines. Despite my protests that it's the principle that matters, my mother has insisted that it's family tradition and we always go and always have done even that year we had to trek to Clapham and Lambeth council aren't going to bloody well put a stop to it and thus I have been coerced into purchasing a ticket. I feel like a traitor.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 27, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Comrades, I must confess: I am going behind enemy lines. Despite my protests that it's the principle that matters, my mother has insisted that it's family tradition and we always go and always have done even that year we had to trek to Clapham and Lambeth council aren't going to bloody well put a stop to it and thus I have been coerced into purchasing a ticket. I feel like a traitor.


I know of others. You are in good company. Not me mind you. Still free in Kent.


----------



## Greebo (Oct 27, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Comrades, I must confess: I am going behind enemy lines. Despite my protests that it's the principle that matters, my mother has insisted that it's family tradition and we always go and always have done <snip> I feel like a traitor.


Extenuating circumstances.


----------



## Winot (Oct 27, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Comrades, I must confess: I am going behind enemy lines. Despite my protests that it's the principle that matters, my mother has insisted that it's family tradition and we always go and always have done even that year we had to trek to Clapham and Lambeth council aren't going to bloody well put a stop to it and thus I have been coerced into purchasing a ticket. I feel like a traitor.



Yeah we are going. Kids.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 27, 2014)

Winot said:


> Yeah we are going. Kids.



I would - but you can't buy kids' tickets without residents' tickets - and the latter have sold out. 

May just peer out of a high window.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 27, 2014)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Comrades, I must confess: I am going behind enemy lines. Despite my protests that it's the principle that matters, my mother has insisted that it's family tradition and we always go and always have done even that year we had to trek to Clapham and Lambeth council aren't going to bloody well put a stop to it and thus I have been coerced into purchasing a ticket. I feel like a traitor.



Understandable.  I had decided I may go (but only as I have a friend over from Ireland), but unfortunately it now clashes with something else, so a few quid saved


----------



## leanderman (Oct 28, 2014)

Only two residents' tickets left at the library as at 11am. They are ordering more. But unsure how likely that is to succeed now they are sold out online.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 28, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Only two residents' tickets left at the library as at 11am. They are ordering more. But unsure how likely that is to succeed now they are sold out online.


When you say residents' tickets - do you mean the very marginally discounted £6 tickets? Presumably they have lots of the full price £7 ones?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 28, 2014)

I'm far too scared to go. I hear there's a threat of a terrorist attack!


----------



## Ms T (Oct 28, 2014)

I don't understand why the residents' tickets are limited. Surely the only criteria to buy one should be that you are a resident?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 28, 2014)

Ms T said:


> I don't understand why the residents' tickets are limited. Surely the only criteria to buy one should be that you are a resident?



Was just about to say the same thing


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 28, 2014)

Shouldn't be a case of first come, first served.  The very poorest may have had to wait for money to go into their accounts before they could afford a rare treat


----------



## leanderman (Oct 28, 2014)

Rushy said:


> When you say residents' tickets - do you mean the very marginally discounted £6 tickets? Presumably they have lots of the full price £7 ones?



Yes. And they had none of the £7 ones at all.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 28, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Yes. And they had none of the £7 ones at all.


Oh well. At least it sold out so it didn't cost an arm and a leg. Next time they should be able to make it pay for itself and maybe some.


----------



## christonabike (Oct 28, 2014)

You can still buy the seven quid ones online


----------



## christonabike (Oct 28, 2014)

So, reading the FAQ on the Lambeth fireworks page, we'll be able to get into the park anyways

I do not see anything about not being able to have your own firework display within the park

Also from FAQ's;

*Can i bring sparklers/drinks/food/glass?*
None of the above are permitted on to the event site and will be confiscated if found upon arrival. Ticket holders will be allowed to bring in one small plastic bottle of water per adult and an allocation of baby food and/or milk for small children. Bag and pram searches will be operated at random on all entrance gates. Sparklers are not permitted in the park due to fire risks and outlined in park bye laws.

They are rinsing it innit! 

If I set off my own fireworks in the park, I will allow spectators to drink beer from cans and scoff kebabs into their faces. Spliffs will also be allowed as will sparklers. But no acting the cunt

Ta


----------



## leanderman (Oct 28, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Oh well. At least it sold out so it didn't cost an arm and a leg. Next time they should be able to make it pay for itself and maybe some.



Good news for the residents who don't like fireworks!


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 29, 2014)

The Lambeth County Show Facebook account is still deleting any posts that might express displeasure at having to pay for an event we've already paid for...


----------



## leanderman (Oct 29, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> The Lambeth County Show Facebook account is still deleting any posts that might express displeasure at having to pay for an event we've already paid for...


 
This year, you'll be paying for it only if it makes a loss, which seems possible with their ludicrous 'security' plans etc.


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 29, 2014)

And lots of people eligible for the 'resident's' tickets are complaining that they've been sold already, and then people who live 100 yards away in Southwark aren't eligible etc.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 29, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> And lots of people eligible for the 'resident's' tickets are complaining that they've been sold already, and then people who live 100 yards away in Southwark aren't eligible etc.



Another mistake. 

No reason why these should be in limited supply.

Unless, perhaps, they have sold so many they risk not being able to admit people on the night.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 30, 2014)

I've probably reached a dead end here in trying to legally publish the Overlay Plans for the fireworks. My internal review of the FoI has been refused [pdf].

I tried to argue that yes, I have a copy of the document. But it is in the public's interest that this is now shared.

Lambeth Council said that I don't speak for the public 

Which gave me a HUGE GRIN.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Oct 30, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> I've probably reached a dead end here in trying to legally publish the Overlay Plans for the fireworks. My internal review of the FoI has been refused [pdf].
> 
> I tried to argue that yes, I have a copy of the document. But it is in the public's interest that this is now shared.
> 
> ...



I give you permission to speak on my behalf.  There's, that's one member of the public already


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 30, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I give you permission to speak on my behalf.  There's, that's one member of the public already


I second this motion.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 30, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> The Lambeth County Show Facebook account is still deleting any posts that might express displeasure at having to pay for an event we've already paid for...


Democracy in action !


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 30, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> I've probably reached a dead end here in trying to legally publish the Overlay Plans for the fireworks. My internal review of the FoI has been refused [pdf].
> 
> I tried to argue that yes, I have a copy of the document. But it is in the public's interest that this is now shared.
> 
> ...


Are you allowed to show me the plans in person?


----------



## Tricky Skills (Oct 30, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Are you allowed to show me the plans in person?



I don't see why not. PM me an email


----------



## Tricky Skills (Nov 1, 2014)

The official site plan for the fireworks has now been published. A few details are missing from the document that Brixton Buzz is still not allowed to publish.

There's no mention of:

2m high anti-climb mesh fencing

Hi-hoard / Steel Shield

1.5m wide heavy duty D-foot barrier and

2.5m wide crowd control barrier.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 1, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> The official site plan for the fireworks has now been published. A few details are missing from the document that Brixton Buzz is still not allowed to publish.
> 
> There's no mention of:
> 
> ...



So what's to prevent a "terrorist" taking photos of the arrangements before the event?  

You need one of those drones to record the setting up, like the guy who did this

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/aerial-view-of-brockwell-park.328834/

Maybe the security details that haven't been published are that the security will shoot anyone taking photos


----------



## paolo (Nov 1, 2014)

2m high anti-climb mesh fencing
-- That'll be a fancy pitch for plain old Heras fence. You can slide under it in 10 seconds if you're happy to get grubby. Get a mate to lift it if you're podgy. This will be the main perimeter because it's cheap. Used at loads of events. Only secure if you have staff policing it. Otherwise it's swiss cheese.

Hi-hoard / Steel Shield
-- Limited area I suspect, I forget the plan, but probably to stop people getting nuked. Too expensive / time consuming to put up for the whole perimiter.

1.5m wide heavy duty D-foot barrier and
-- Inner area, stop people getting nuked. You're already in, no reason to breach.

2.5m wide crowd control barrier.
-- Inner area, stop people getting nuked. You're already in, no reason to breach.

Have at it.

So yeah, don't do anything dumb enough to piss off the techs working the display. Any low barrier stuff, like the last two, is probably to stop you getting hurt - respect


----------



## madolesance (Nov 2, 2014)

So Cressingham Gardens looks like the perfect place to watch to fireworks from.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2014)

madolesance said:


> So Cressingham Gardens looks like the perfect place to watch to fireworks from.


No wonder they're trying to demolish it!


----------



## Greebo (Nov 2, 2014)

editor said:


> No wonder they're trying to demolish it!


Well - if option 5 were chosen, the penthouse levels of the new blocks nearest the park's border would be ideal for viewing such events...


----------



## Greebo (Nov 2, 2014)

madolesance said:


> So Cressingham Gardens looks like the perfect place to watch to fireworks from.


As long as the fireworks can be seen from the mounds at the back, or the higher flats, and then there are the *ahem* informal entrances on that side of the slope.


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Nov 3, 2014)

Just tried to book a couple of tickets for the daughter & her friend - actually prompted by a tweet from Lambeth Council reminding me that "Kids go free to #*Lambeth* Brockwell Park fireworks" 

The ticketing website says that under-14's must be accompanied by an adult - but they're 15 so that ought to be OK - except that "- To buy a UNDER 16 ADMISSION ticket, you must also buy a ADMISSION ticket" and I really don't fancy paying £7 to be frisked for snacks on my way into the park, on behalf of two little blighters who won't decide until the day whether they can be bothered to go or not.

They'll quite probably head up to the park with their mates anyway .  Though TBF dressing as zombies & roaming the streets on Halloween is more their thing these days.


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Nov 3, 2014)

Can't decide whether to dissuade them from going to the park or not - the bit they usually go to (hill behind the lido & the bmx track) isn't part of the ticketed area, so it should be OK to go there? And being in the park after dark on Bonfire Night has always been a kind of a treat in itself, bit of a shame to lose that tradition.

But not sure I want them stuck in a holding pen on a school night .


----------



## Biddlybee (Nov 3, 2014)

My guess would be all the gates will be closed apart from one where they'll check tickets  or maybe not?

I'm still really gutted.


----------



## ricbake (Nov 3, 2014)

Please bear in mind that we are all under instructions to "DO THE RIGHT THING"
Lambeth Council is a COOPERATIVE COUNCIL which means you must cooperate with it
Plus they have a stack of BYLAWS telling you what they can do and you can't!

The Park will officially shut at 16:10 - 15 minutes before sunset on 5th


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 3, 2014)

ricbake said:


> "DO THE RIGHT THING"



and make if FREE


----------



## christonabike (Nov 3, 2014)

Can someone clear up whether you can go into the park on Wednesday?

You are allowed to set your own gear off I presume, but it says the park will be closed from 1610

You cannot close the park as there are places you can get in. It'd be daft to try and stop folk wandering about


----------



## ricbake (Nov 3, 2014)

According to the Bylaws Brockwell Park closes at 15 minutes before sunset which would be 16:10 on the 5th.
This is a ticket only event in the park after it has been closed to the public
A big chunk of the cost of this years display is private security
You are not allowed to light fires in the park and I assume they include in that fireworks.

Streatham Common, Rush Common and Clapham Common don't close because they are common land


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 3, 2014)

They are closing the car park by the Lido all day on Wednesday.


----------



## ricbake (Nov 3, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> They are closing the car park by the Lido all day on Wednesday.


Parking for the Pyrotechnic team, security etc


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 3, 2014)

I still plan on standing in front of the Regent as usual - if the fire works can't be seen in the sky from there, then they must be rubbish...


----------



## ricbake (Nov 3, 2014)

It looks like it may be a damp perhaps drizzly evening about 8°C on Wednesday 

48,000 people have to get there by bus and train, all have to walk 400 m mostly uphill through the park, 
site opens at 5 pm, ticket checks, through security,
No sparklers, only a bottle of water - lock down at 7:30 pm - 
stall holders paying substantial sums for their pitches and charging accordingly

I will be watching from a distance

*Lambeth Fireworks FAQ 
*


----------



## leanderman (Nov 4, 2014)

ricbake said:


> It looks like it may be a damp perhaps drizzly evening about 8°C on Wednesday
> 
> 48,000 people have to get there by bus and train, all have to walk 400 m mostly uphill through the park,
> site opens at 5 pm, ticket checks, through security,
> ...



What a palaver.

We're taking the kids. £12 for five of us.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 4, 2014)

Operation Chucklehead: the mission to get some cider from outside the fence….


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> What a palaver.
> 
> We're taking the kids. £12 for five of us.



Be sure to go and see the Lords of Lightning - proper jaw dropping.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2014)




----------



## Greebo (Nov 4, 2014)

editor said:


> View attachment 63357


First I've  heard of it, but I'll try to get there.  Don't any of you lot be rolling your eyes at me for struggling to find the time to walk about 400 yards!


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Nov 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> What a palaver.
> 
> We're taking the kids. £12 for five of us.



I have to admit, for a family it does actually work out good value as these things go, especially if you fill them up with a proper dinner before hand to stave off some of the clamouring for snacks once you get there.

(though I still think stopping people from bringing their own food in is shitty).

Just sad that it will have changed from a whole community event - students, families, teenagers, everyone welcome to just wander in, alone* or with company - to a family oriented event.
*I think this is important - London is full of people who live alone, so free (or even money in a bucket at the gate type of thing - I think it's the spontaneity as much as the actual cost) where you can just wander around & maybe meet people, maybe not - is a way you can be part of the community. Whereas 'buying a ticket for an event' is more a thing that families or groups of friends do.

Anyway I will head up to Cressingham Gardens  hope they get some good publicity out of this at any rate.


----------



## Rushy (Nov 4, 2014)

Looks like the perimeter path inside the park running past Cressingham is outside the cordon.


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 4, 2014)

The fence was being brought into the park yesterday, but the weather (until today) has screwed up their plans at mowing anything that didn't move. 

Most of the people I seem to speak about it don't know that this year it's a paid event, so its just as likely that the normal high number of people will turn up.


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Nov 4, 2014)

The listings - in today's Metro, on the TFL page - don't say it's a paid, pre-book event. (tbf they don't give that info for any of other displays either, most of which _are_ paid, but a lot people know that Brockwell has always been a free event)

So people who live in Lambeth might know you have to pay this year - but loads of the people who come from the rest of London because they think it's one of the last free events around won't know until they get here .


----------



## ricbake (Nov 4, 2014)

Bensons Funfair rides just trundling through Brixton.  Probably on the way to Brockwell


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 4, 2014)

Ms Ordinary said:


> The listings - in today's Metro, on the TFL page - don't say it's a paid, pre-book event. (tbf they don't give that info for any of other displays either, most of which _are_ paid, but a lot people know that Brockwell has always been a free event)
> 
> So people who live in Lambeth might know you have to pay this year - but loads of the people who come from the rest of London because they think it's one of the last free events around won't know until they get here .



Its going to be a clusterfuck. There are always loads of non Lambeth people, the tubes and Thameslink are packed with people going to see the Fireworks. Hopefully they'll have the sense to put up notices along the way, rather than having to try to turn everyone away at the gates. I can imagine the crowds of people gathering round the gates arguing about getting in, being pushed out onto Dulwich Road, which is dangerous at the best of times.


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 4, 2014)

Isn't it that you can get into the park if not the fenced enclosure? So the hordes will have somewhere to be (if they don't just descend onto the Florence / Regent / Commercial).


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Isn't it that you can get into the park if not the fenced enclosure? So the hordes will have somewhere to be (if they don't just descend onto the Florence / Regent / Commercial).



Won't there still be a lot of congestion when security are telling people they won't actually be able to see the fireworks unless they are in the enclosed area? Or searching bags to make sure people aren't bring sparklers/fireworks into the park


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Nov 4, 2014)

There should be still be access to the Lido (AFAIK the gym is open as usual on Wednesday evening) & Lido Café up till at least 10pm, I think. Can't remember how they usually deal with that on Bonfire night - I have a vague recollection that last year you did have to walk round to one of the other entrances - the Lido steps are a bit of hazard if there's a big crowd, so maybe they closed that entrance last year .


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Most of the people I seem to speak about it don't know that this year it's a paid event, so its just as likely that the normal high number of people will turn up.



wierd that because I saw biggish posters for it on the southbank the other day and won't publicising in that location drag in a few fair few tourists.........


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Nov 4, 2014)

That is part of Lambeth borough though - they prob just have the same posters all over the borough. I dunno - maybe the council aren't allowed to put up Lambeth posters in Southwark or Wandsworth . Or would've had to pay for them.


----------



## brixtonblade (Nov 4, 2014)

Trinity Arms fireworks were really good last year.  Might go and watch them.  Not sure if theyre on the 5th or Friday or Saturday.

Edit - Saturday


----------



## 299 old timer (Nov 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Isn't it that you can get into the park if not the fenced enclosure? So the hordes will have somewhere to be (if they don't just descend onto the Florence / Regent / Commercial).



No, the park officially closes 15 minutes before sundown. What interests me is how they propose to man a 1km / 2km fence with security (I mean the park's boundary fence, not the one erected for the display).


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 4, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> Won't there still be a lot of congestion when security are telling people they won't actually be able to see the fireworks unless they are in the enclosed area? Or searching bags to make sure people aren't bring sparklers/fireworks into the park



hah, intentionally don't tell the outsiders so they flood to the park, thereby justifying the security costs


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 4, 2014)

I was briefly considering breaking protocol and caving in to this £7 stuff tomorrow, i.e sod it, its wrong but not the end of the world, at least you can bring cans etc which you wouldn't be able to do if you go to a free one at a pub.....

but they are actually suggesting even if you pay you cant bring your own booze too?! they will be 'randomly searching prams'?! oh dear, oh dear indeed.....


----------



## christonabike (Nov 4, 2014)

Lambeth are winning the most mean spirited bunch of cunts award by a fucking mile


----------



## ricbake (Nov 4, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> The official site plan for the fireworks has now been published. A few details are missing from the document that Brixton Buzz is still not allowed to publish.
> There's no mention of:
> 2m high anti-climb mesh fencing
> Hi-hoard / Steel Shield
> ...





299 old timer said:


> No, the park officially closes 15 minutes before sundown. What interests me is how they propose to man a 1km / 2km fence with security (I mean the park's boundary fence, not the one erected for the display).



I had thought that but the FAQ says the public will be allowed into the Park - but possibly fenced into a particular area
*Lambeth Fireworks FAQ
*


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 4, 2014)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> I was briefly considering breaking protocol and caving in to this £7 stuff tomorrow, i.e sod it, its wrong but not the end of the world, at least you can bring cans etc which you wouldn't be able to do if you go to a free one at a pub.....
> 
> but they are actually suggesting even if you pay you cant bring your own booze too?! they will be 'randomly searching prams'?! oh dear, oh dear indeed.....



Well they can't have you bringing in your own booze, how would the traders justify paying (confidential) for their stalls if people could byo and not have to buy hugely marked up food and drink


----------



## ricbake (Nov 4, 2014)

3 ticket holders entry points
48,000 ticket holders and 150 minutes from site opening to lockdown
106 people through each entry point per minute...

Lets hope they have got their act together...


----------



## leanderman (Nov 4, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> Well they can't have you bringing in your own booze, how would the traders justify paying (confidential) for their stalls if people could byo and not have to buy hugely marked up food and drink



Eat first and dig out a hip flask.


----------



## 299 old timer (Nov 4, 2014)

ricbake said:


> I had thought that but the FAQ says the public will be allowed into the Park - but possibly fenced into a particular area
> *Lambeth Fireworks FAQ*



*What happens if I arrive without a ticket?*
_Brockwell Park will be open to the public, but you will not be granted access to the Lambeth Fireworks event site without a valid ticket. There will be no entertainment, facilities or viewing areas within the rest of Brockwell Park._

Yes, that brings to mind the pdf that tricky skills posted up until it was deemed a terrorist threat 
That is going to be some mighty high fence to stop the plebs viewing the fireworks from outside the site perimeter.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 4, 2014)

christonabike said:


> Lambeth are winning the most mean spirited bunch of cunts award by a fucking mile


You're not wrong.  BTW seldom has a username been so appropriate for the comment which followed it.


----------



## Maggot (Nov 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I went to a free one in Blackheath last year.


Blackheath is still free.

I went this year, great fireworks, free and, due to the size of the heath, it wasn't crowded.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 4, 2014)

Maggot said:


> Blackheath is still free.
> 
> I went this year, great fireworks, free and, due to the size of the heath, it wasn't crowded.



Would cost me £12 to get there!


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 4, 2014)

ricbake said:


> 3 ticket holders entry points
> 48,000 ticket holders and 150 minutes from site opening to lockdown
> 106 people through each entry point per minute...
> 
> Lets hope they have got their act together...



That's doable if properly organised, but I can't see much searching going on. And one or two people turning up at each entry point without tickets, arguing and disrupting the flow would really fuck them up


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 4, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> That's doable if properly organised, but I can't see much searching going on. And one or two people turning up at each entry point without tickets, arguing and disrupting the flow would really fuck them up



I nominate you to start an argument as a distraction while everyone else sneaks in free


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 4, 2014)

Maggot said:


> Blackheath is still free.
> 
> I went this year, great fireworks, free and, due to the size of the heath, it wasn't crowded.



and Southwark


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 4, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I nominate you to start an argument as a distraction while everyone else sneaks in free



I'm busy, otherwise I'd be happy to offer my services. Given I look surprisingly innocent, I reckon I could just act very confused for a while and then let in turn into an argument for quite a while, loads of people could sneak in..


----------



## Ms T (Nov 4, 2014)

Are tickets still available?  I may have to cave as I bloody love fireworks.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 4, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> I can't see much searching going on



Exactly: I guess they say it to deter people, to keep official traders happy, to deter unlicensed traders etc etc.

The Oval cricket ground has a genuine bag-checking policy that requires some preparation to get past.


----------



## Winot (Nov 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> The Oval cricket ground has a genuine bag-checking policy that requires some preparation to get past.



Did you have to store the booze in your liver?


----------



## leanderman (Nov 4, 2014)

Winot said:


> Did you have to store the booze in your liver?



Ultimately.


----------



## uk benzo (Nov 4, 2014)

So just to reconfirm, there may be some viewing potential from the Cressingham Gardens side of the the park? My boy, who is usually afraid of fireworks, has asked me to take him this year. I'll be fucked if I have to pay 7 squid to get treated like cattle in a pen.


----------



## ricbake (Nov 4, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Are tickets still available?  I may have to cave as I bloody love fireworks.


Tickets here £7 per adult and you can get four kids tickets free with each transaction


----------



## Rushy (Nov 4, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> So just to reconfirm, there may be some viewing potential from the Cressingham Gardens side of the the park? My boy, who is usually afraid of fireworks, has asked me to take him this year. I'll be fucked if I have to pay 7 squid to get treated like cattle in a pen.



The perimeter path is not inside the enclosure. The guy building it said it would remain open. If that's true there should be a great view from the path close to Cressingham. Could get packed though.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2014)

ricbake said:


> Tickets here £7 per adult and you can get four kids tickets free with each transaction


Interesting comment on that page: 


> Re: Paying to watch the Lambeth Fireworks display. For as long as I can remember, fireworks display has been at the heart of my childhood and now that of my own child. To have to now PAY to see and enjoy the display is absolutely despicable and heartless. It is only because of our children, why we have chosen to pay for tickets for my whole family to attend. I would like to know what inspired the organisers to now make this a money making business. IT IS WRONG, VERY WRONG..........a disappointed Lambeth resident of over 30 years.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 4, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> 2m high anti-climb mesh fencing
> 
> Hi-hoard / Steel Shield
> 
> ...



I decided to look this stuff up.

2m high anti-climb mesh fencing: difficult to climb, unless you have a friend, a bit of wood or a big jump - but see-through, enabling firework watching.









Hi-hoard / Steel Shield (aka Glastonbury fencing): again, difficult to climb, but also not see-through, making firework watching difficult. 










heavy duty D-foot barrier is just this stuff:







And crowd control barriers are these things:







Probably worth having a little think about what will be used where, and selecting your viewpoint accordingly.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Nov 4, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I decided to look this stuff up.
> 
> 2m high anti-climb mesh fencing: difficult to climb, unless you have a friend, a bit of wood or a big jump - but see-through, enabling firework watching.
> 
> ...



There's a BBuzz post that you might like tomorrow morning


----------



## Maggot (Nov 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Would cost me £12 to get there!


But a travelcard is only £8.90.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 4, 2014)

editor said:


> Interesting comment on that page:



Almost totally agree - except it is not a moneymaking business


Maggot said:


> But a travelcard is only £8.90.



Good point. but two (+3) of us and ... the time involved. Better to suck up the £12.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 4, 2014)

Although the fencing and security firms are suddenly making a lot of money.


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2014)

I'd be very surprised if they use that kind of mesh fence. Never seen it used as temporary event fencing. You might be jumping at shadows on that front.


----------



## kittyP (Nov 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Eat first and dig out a hip flask.


Hip flask is always the best thing for fireworks. Searches or not.


----------



## kittyP (Nov 4, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> *What happens if I arrive without a ticket?*
> _Brockwell Park will be open to the public, but you will not be granted access to the Lambeth Fireworks event site without a valid ticket. There will be no entertainment, facilities or viewing areas within the rest of Brockwell Park._
> 
> Yes, that brings to mind the pdf that tricky skills posted up until it was deemed a terrorist threat
> That is going to be some mighty high fence to stop the plebs viewing the fireworks from outside the site perimeter.


As someone else said, unless the fireworks are utterly shite, I don't see how they are going to stop people outside the fence seeing them.


----------



## kittyP (Nov 4, 2014)

Maggot said:


> Blackheath is still free.
> 
> I went this year, great fireworks, free and, due to the size of the heath, it wasn't crowded.


I have no idea how it's been in Blackheath in recent years but the first time I saw the Brockwell fireworks I was really surprised how much better than Blackheath they were.


----------



## kittyP (Nov 4, 2014)

Rushy said:


> The perimeter path is not inside the enclosure. The guy building it said it would remain open. If that's true there should be a great view from the path close to Cressingham. Could get packed though.


Yes but it's accessing the perimeter path after the park has closed. 
I know where there are points in but jeese they were crowded enough when it was free.


----------



## zenie (Nov 5, 2014)

kittyP said:


> Yes but it's accessing the perimeter path after the park has closed.
> I know where there are points in but jeese they were crowded enough when it was free.


Yeh  I wonder how it'll go. 

This was today...


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 5, 2014)

I imagine security will be patrolling up and down that ^^^ path to ensure no one gets in - given the bit behind the the fencing in the picture above will be out of bounds cos that's where they're setting the fireworks off.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Nov 5, 2014)

From The Graun:

"Matt Wrack, general secretary of the Fire Brigades Union, said: “Charging for the public to attend firework displays over bonfire night will only encourage people to hold their own backyard displays which can be dangerous. Council firework events are, by far, a lot safer. They ought to be free.”


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> <snip>“Charging for the public to attend firework displays over bonfire night will only encourage people to hold their own backyard displays which can be dangerous. Council firework events are, by far, a lot safer. They ought to be free.”


Word


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

zenie said:


> <snip>This was today...


----------



## Tricky Skills (Nov 5, 2014)

Here's the Brixton Buzz guide to *possibly* catching a freebie view of the Brockwell Park fireworks.

Disclaimer: We haven't pin-pointed exactly where in the park to catch a sneaky look. We don't want to cause over-crowding. We are responsible citizens concerned that some members of the public are being priced out of a public display. We are not terrorists.


----------



## Biddlybee (Nov 5, 2014)

Are they keeping all the park gates open for the punters then?


----------



## Dan U (Nov 5, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Here's the Brixton Buzz guide to *possibly* catching a freebie view of the Brockwell Park fireworks.
> 
> Disclaimer: We haven't pin-pointed exactly where in the park to catch a sneaky look. We don't want to cause over-crowding. We are responsible citizens concerned that some members of the public are being priced out of a public display. We are not terrorists.



can't believe you got threatened with legal action.


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2014)

Interesting comment on the B Buzz article: 



> It looks like the Lambeth Events Team are using their usual suppliers for fencing and security who have no specific experience in dealing with this type of night time event.
> The types of fencing evident in the park don’t really look fit for purpose and will probably get knocked over if there are a lot of people try to squeeze into spaces round the outside of the event area.
> 
> When they have outside professional promoters to do events on Clapham Common who charge for entry it looks very different from this set up….


----------



## ricbake (Nov 5, 2014)

Is anybody aware of 2m high anti-climb mesh fencing and Hi-hoard / Steel Shield fencing as per the B Buzz info arriving in the Park today?


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2014)

Another email comment: 





> Yeah well I've just been up there for walk (5/11@10am), it's a friggin
> fortress, brockwell parks very own Berlin Wall....shame...what they
> done to our park and who pays for park repairs after it's turned into
> a quagmire? Hope it pisses with rain!


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 5, 2014)

When they decided to make this a ticketed commercial event, they should have sold the whole thing off to a promotions/events company so the council made no financial contribution and had no liability. Would have made the situation much clearer.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 5, 2014)

all you need to undo heras fencing is an adjustable spanner, clasp should come off in 10-20 seconds


----------



## Tricky Skills (Nov 5, 2014)

Five hours until the gates open - Lambeth Council twitter feed still flogging tickets.


----------



## clandestino (Nov 5, 2014)

If you think the Brockwell park fireworks are expensive, check out the Crystal Palace display. They're charging for kids tickets as well - £5 a go for kids, £7 for adults. At Brockwell, kids go free.

I just bought some residents tickets for the Brockwell display at Streatham library - £6 a head for adults, free for children. It looked like they had plenty left.


----------



## ricbake (Nov 5, 2014)

Brixton Blog has picture of "don't look at my Fireworks fencing"


----------



## goldengraham (Nov 5, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> When they decided to make this a ticketed commercial event, they should have sold the whole thing off to a promotions/events company so the council made no financial contribution and had no liability. Would have made the situation much clearer.



At least there was no booking fee on the tickets, which they would certainly have been loaded with if it had been sold off to a 3rd party.

It is a real shame the fireworks are no longer free but I think unfortunately inevitable, given the enormous council budget cuts. However the pricing structure is not well thought out - I'm an adult taking 2 kids so the cost is £7 for the 3 of us and therefore relatively well spread. But it assumes the event is primarily for the benefit of children when actually as you can see from the comments on this thread, a lot of people view the fireworks as a unique local social event for everyone. Maybe reducing it to £3/4 per adult and £1 for kids would have been a fairer solution.


----------



## trabuquera (Nov 5, 2014)

A FAIR solution would have been cancelling it, if there isn't the money to mount a free firework display for all those who live in the borough. Semi-commercialisation like this is the worst of all worlds imho.


----------



## Rushy (Nov 5, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> A FAIR solution would have been cancelling it, if there isn't the money to mount a free firework display for all those who live in the borough. Semi-commercialisation like this is the worst of all worlds imho.


I'm stood in the middle of the barricaded area thinking exactly that.


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I'm stood in the middle of the barricaded area thinking exactly that.


Are you planning on hiding under a big pile of fallen leaves until the "event" kicks off ?


----------



## ricbake (Nov 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I'm stood in the middle of the barricaded area thinking exactly that.





cuppa tee said:


> Are you planning on hiding under a big pile of fallen leaves until the "event" kicks off ?


Careful that might be the Bonfire


----------



## 299 old timer (Nov 5, 2014)

*Full event programme*

_5pm – event gates open (funfair, food stalls and bars)_
_From 5:30pm – Giant Mechanical fire Bird and Disco Turtle from Emergency Exit Arts will roam the event site and entertain the crowds_
_6pm – Lords of Lightning_
_7pm – Lighting of our 7m high Lighthouse Bonfire_
*There will be no entry to the event site after 7.30pm*

_7:30pm – Lords of Lightning_
_7:50pm – Human Catherine Wheel and Fire Bird performance_
*8pm – 20 minute firework display*
_8:20pm – South London Samba_
_8:50pm – Lords of Lightning_
_9pm – Giant mechanical Fire Bird and Disco Turtle from Emergency Exit Arts continue to roam the event site_
_10pm – event close_
So, to get to the point - there's 20 minutes of fireworks at 8.00. All the rest is faffing about at ground level with Disco Turtle and the like. Now I understand how the barrier comes into it all, the majority of the "entertainment" is at ground level, hidden from view.


----------



## Rushy (Nov 5, 2014)

ricbake said:


> Careful that might be the Bonfire


I'm making a statement!


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 5, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> So, to get to the point - there's 20 minutes of fireworks at 8.00. All the rest is faffing about at ground level with Disco Turtle and the like. Now I understand how the barrier comes into it all, the majority of the "entertainment" is at ground level, hidden from view.



I am going to try and blag free entry by knocking up a homemade Disco Turtle costume


----------



## Rushy (Nov 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


>


Pants.  Lit the fuse and it was a dud. 
Can I not use Dropbox share links for photos?


----------



## Rushy (Nov 5, 2014)

Welcome to Lambeth Labour 's 2014 fireworks extravaganza!


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Pants.  Lit the fuse and it was a dud.
> Can I not use Dropbox share links for photos?


Take a screen grab and upload that instead?
(*edit: you've done it now)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 5, 2014)

clandestino said:


> If you think the Brockwell park fireworks are expensive, check out the Crystal Palace display. They're charging for kids tickets as well - £5 a go for kids, £7 for adults. At Brockwell, kids go free.
> 
> I just bought some residents tickets for the Brockwell display at Streatham library - £6 a head for adults, free for children. It looked like they had plenty left.



I was speaking to someone the other day and they said they'd rather pay and go to Crystal Palace than pay to go to Brockwell as Crystal Palace is better and they don't just have the one display.  But like everyone, she's pissed off about Lambeth charging


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 5, 2014)

ricbake said:


> Brixton Blog has picture of "don't look at my Fireworks fencing"



There's always one.  Surprised they didn't mention it was probably the unemployed who were the drinkers/smokers



> Daz November 5, 2014 at 10:32 am · Reply
> I support the council’s decision to charge particularly at a time of cut backs to their budgets. Why should essential financial resources be re-allocated for the sake of a firework show. £7 is hardly a great amount for an evening out – less than a pack of cigarettes or a couple of pints!


----------



## ricbake (Nov 5, 2014)

Does the type of Fence in Rushy's photo/post #444 extend all the way from Norwood Road Gate up around the "Fire Work Exclusion Zone" round the "Event Area" and back down to the Tulse Hill Road Gate or is it Heras (see through) fence around the "Fire Work Exclusion Zone" including the path by Cressingham Gardens


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 5, 2014)

Crystal Palace always used to be a mudfest with a Capital Radio DJ though.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 5, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Crystal Palace always used to be a mudfest with a Capital Radio DJ though.



Mudfest is probably what kids enjoy though


----------



## wurlycurly (Nov 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Welcome to Lambeth Labour 's 2014 fireworks extravaganza!
> 
> View attachment 63396





Rushy said:


> Welcome to Lambeth Labour 's 2014 fireworks extravaganza!
> 
> View attachment 63396



That fence is a monstrosity. This is evolving into one of the biggest Lambeth farces of all time. Fingers crossed for some ticket tout action. 'Lambeth fireworks, I'll buy and sell ...'


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 5, 2014)

wurlycurly said:


> That fence is a monstrosity. This is evolving into one of the biggest Lambeth farces of all time. Fingers crossed for some ticket tout action. 'Lambeth fireworks, I'll buy and sell ...'



at the top of the steps of Brixton tube


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 5, 2014)

it's going to be horrendous tonight


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 5, 2014)

and cold, all the more reason not to bother


----------



## Rushy (Nov 5, 2014)

ricbake said:


> Does the type of Fence in Rushy's photo/post #444 extend all the way from Norwood Road Gate up around the "Fire Work Exclusion Zone" round the "Event Area" and back down to the Tulse Hill Road Gate or is it Heras (see through) fence around the "Fire Work Exclusion Zone" including the path by Cressingham Gardens
> 
> View attachment 63397


It is Heras.  Cressingham are in for a treat!


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 5, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> and cold, all the more reason not to bother



...i should watch a recording of London's New Year firework display instead


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 5, 2014)

I've still got recordings of NYE, so I may just do that


----------



## 299 old timer (Nov 5, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> I am going to try and blag free entry by knocking up a homemade Disco Turtle costume



http://images.esellerpro.com/2466/I/130/6/lrgscaleturtle.jpg


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2014)




----------



## Rushy (Nov 5, 2014)

editor said:


>



*** Awaits stories of fence goring ***


----------



## christonabike (Nov 5, 2014)

A carjack will sort that out


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Welcome to Lambeth Labour 's 2014 fireworks extravaganza!
> 
> View attachment 63396[/QUOTE)
> 
> Do the fireworks not go higher than 10 feet?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 5, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> at the top of the steps of Brixton tube



" Skunk,Hash,Tickets for Brockwell" ?  Repeat over and over.


----------



## Biddlybee (Nov 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Welcome to Lambeth Labour 's 2014 fireworks extravaganza!
> 
> View attachment 63396


That just screams _community event_ doesn't it


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 5, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> " Skunk,Hash,Tickets for Brockwell" ?  Repeat over and over.



Sparklers, beer!


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 5, 2014)

In no way is it a community event. Feels like they'll use the 'success' of this to do the same to our other community event - the country show.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 5, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Sparklers, beer!


You can bring drugs but no sparklers or booze.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 5, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> In no way is it a community event. Feels like they'll use the 'success' of this to do the same to our other community event - the country show.


You cynic.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 5, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> You cynic.



Realist is the term I prefer


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 5, 2014)

Lambeth fined my neighbor a few hundred quid for burning wood and logs in his Garden, Is there an amnesty tonight? Cheeky fuckers.


----------



## ffsear (Nov 5, 2014)

Can we bring our own booze in?


----------



## wurlycurly (Nov 5, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> In no way is it a community event. Feels like they'll use the 'success' of this to do the same to our other community event - the country show.


It's unlikely to be a success, unless they've got the fucking Wicker Man behind the fence.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 5, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> Realist is the term I prefer


You Realist.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Nov 5, 2014)

The Lambeth Council fireworks FAQ states:

"Tickets are available to buy in advance only."

Lambeth Council has just tweeted:


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 5, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> You Realist.



Thank you...


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 5, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Lambeth Council fireworks FAQ states:
> 
> "Tickets are available to buy in advance only."
> 
> Lambeth Council has just tweeted:




Last minute sale as tickets nowhere near sold out - lets increase the cost. Doh.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 5, 2014)

clandestino said:


> If you think the Brockwell park fireworks are expensive, check out the Crystal Palace display. They're charging for kids tickets as well - £5 a go for kids, £7 for adults. At Brockwell, kids go free.
> 
> I just bought some residents tickets for the Brockwell display at Streatham library - £6 a head for adults, free for children. It looked like they had plenty left.



Same kind of price at Wimbledon apparently.


----------



## Rushy (Nov 5, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Lambeth Council fireworks FAQ states:
> 
> "Tickets are available to buy in advance only."
> 
> Lambeth Council has just tweeted:



Oh dear. When will you be submitting the foi re ticket sales?


----------



## leanderman (Nov 5, 2014)

ffsear said:


> Can we bring our own booze in?





You bet. Ready to go!


----------



## Tricky Skills (Nov 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Oh dear. When will you be submitting the foi re ticket sales?



Oh, it's already scheduled for midnight tonight


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 5, 2014)

My plans for the evening have just been cancelled, so I'm going to lay on the sofa and see if I can see the fireworks out the window as I usually can.. In the warm, with a nice glass of wine in my hand


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> View attachment 63398
> 
> You bet. Ready to go!


Will it clear a metal detector?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 5, 2014)

Im staying in with my box of imaginary sparklers, All those that have paid i hope you have an enjoyable and safe evening.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> It is Heras.  Cressingham are in for a treat!


I've heard a preview of the music earlier during a soundcheck - it's shit.

*digs out mini sparklers and ice fountains*


----------



## Smick (Nov 5, 2014)

I had intended to go round to Cressingham, but my daughter isn't feeling the best. Thankfully I didn't buy tickets.


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2014)

If you're really stuck for fireworks-based entertainment, come to the Effra social where we will be projecting awesome fireworks displays inside and handing out free - yes, free - sparklers outside! DJs till midnight, free all night 

(edit to add poster)



*Don't hold your breath on the toffee apples. But there's loads of beer sand that generally makes everything alright.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

Smick said:


> I had intended to go round to Cressingham, but my daughter isn't feeling the best. Thankfully I didn't buy tickets.


Better that she stays home, warm and doesn't get coughed or sneezed over by anyone else then.  You'll probably have a better night than some of the peoplewho've got tickets and are well enough to use them.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Nov 5, 2014)

Oooh. There a #lambethfireworks hashtag.

Enjoy


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2014)

View from my window:


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 5, 2014)

£10 on the door!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 5, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Lambeth fined my neighbor a few hundred quid for burning wood and logs in his Garden, Is there an amnesty tonight? Cheeky fuckers.


Really? There's no laws against burning stuf in your garden. Unless it causes a "persistent nuisance"...


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> £10 on the door!


For shit music (I can hear it and it really is shit) and being allowed to stand in a field or wander around being fleeced.


----------



## Ms T (Nov 5, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> £10 on the door!


I know! Missed the deadline for online tickets and I refuse to pay 10 quid. That's just taking the piss.


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2014)

£10 is a spectacular rip off


----------



## prunus (Nov 5, 2014)

Well I'm there, and I can report it has changed what used to feel like an inclusive community event engendering feelings of togetherness into what feels like a fascist corporate opportunity to gouge as much money out of people as possible. 

Quite depressing.


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Nov 5, 2014)

FWIW Lambeth website does now seem to say 14-16 year olds can have free entry on the door with photo ID.

(It actually says under 16s need photo ID & under 14s need to be accompanied)

Doesn't sound like they've been overwhelmed by ticket sales, then.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

Ms Ordinary said:


> <snip> Doesn't sound like they've been overwhelmed by ticket sales, then.


Oh dear, how sad, never mind.


----------



## Belushi (Nov 5, 2014)

I can see loads of fireworks going off from my eyrie up in North London, think one of the displays is Brockwell Park in the far distance


----------



## Woodbox (Nov 5, 2014)

prunus said:


> Well I'm there, and I can report it has changed what used to feel like an inclusive community event engendering feelings of togetherness into what feels like a fascist corporate opportunity to gouge as much money out of people as possible.
> 
> Quite depressing.



Definitely feeling glad that we pulled out of trading there this year.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 5, 2014)

Loads of non official fireworks happening near the top of brixton hill


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 5, 2014)

Woodbox said:


> Definitely feeling glad that we pulled out of trading there this year.



Do you know what traders were being asked to pay?


----------



## 299 old timer (Nov 5, 2014)

On the bus coming home and saw loads of people pouring out of the tube and on up to Effra Parade and beyond. Do they all know it's a tenner on the door?


----------



## Woodbox (Nov 5, 2014)

shakespearegirl said:


> Do you know what traders were being asked to pay?



http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/10/...or-pitch-at-brockwell-park-fireworks-display/


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 5, 2014)

I'm in Camberwell and can hear lots of big ones.  Don't know where they're coming from though


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 5, 2014)

Woodbox said:


> http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/10/...or-pitch-at-brockwell-park-fireworks-display/


Thanks had missed that article.


----------



## ChairmanJ (Nov 5, 2014)

T & P said:


> Fuck the greedy cunts.


You short sighted, selfish idiots. Lambeth has a massive funding shortage and this is a perfect chance to help balance the books and make money available for essential services in the borough. How can we just expect them to put on the Country show and Fireworks for free?


----------



## Fingers (Nov 5, 2014)

Well just watched and listened to it from my bedroom window and it looked far from spectacular


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 5, 2014)

Sounds like another big display in Camberwell at the moment


----------



## shakespearegirl (Nov 5, 2014)

Not a very good reaction on twitter:

Shambles
Thousands waiting no marshalls
We've paid for this


----------



## 299 old timer (Nov 5, 2014)

Fireworks supposed to start at 8.00, not heard or seen one fizz (I'm local), what a shambles!
Started 8.29.
Finished 8.49. A fine display, one of the best, pity about the charge that excludes many locals.


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 5, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> Fireworks supposed to start at 8.00, not heard or seen one fizz (I'm local), what a shambles!
> Started 8.29.


Maybe the parliamentary VIP's were delayed getting out of Westminster by the million mask march


----------



## Fingers (Nov 5, 2014)

Looks like I was watching the wrong one.  Watching the real one now from my window. Great view. fuck lambeth


----------



## Smick (Nov 5, 2014)

ChairmanJ said:


> You short sighted, selfish idiots. Lambeth has a massive funding shortage and this is a perfect chance to help balance the books and make money available for essential services in the borough. How can we just expect them to put on the Country show and Fireworks for free?



From the council tax income. From commercial sponsorship. From charging traders for pitches at the events. From car parking revenues, library fines and all other income streams.

Once we accept that leisure services deserve some funding at point of use, where will it end? Costs to borrow books at the library? To get in to the kids' park?

How do you decide what is worthy and what isn't? Cut and charge until you're left with nothing?

I've lived in Dublin where you're charged to phone the fire brigade! It's what we'll ultimately get here.


----------



## kittyP (Nov 5, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Lambeth fined my neighbor a few hundred quid for burning wood and logs in his Garden, Is there an amnesty tonight? Cheeky fuckers.



WHat? We have had a load of bonfires here and so have out neighbours...


----------



## Fingers (Nov 5, 2014)

That was OK to be fair.  Though i would not have gone along and paid 7 quid for it.


----------



## technical (Nov 5, 2014)

We just watched it from our bedroom window 300 yards from the park. Great view and a great display!


----------



## Tricky Skills (Nov 5, 2014)




----------



## spanglechick (Nov 5, 2014)

the crystal palace display seemed to go on for the best part of an hour (we live v. close and have been hearing it). so - expensive for kids but sounds better value for money.


----------



## 299 old timer (Nov 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> the crystal palace display seemed to go on for the best part of an hour (we live v. close and have been hearing it). so - expensive for kids but sounds better value for money.



Oh yeah? This one has Disco Turtle, so there!


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 5, 2014)

notwithstanding any of the ridiculous decisions made by lambeth, this whole fuss has made me realise how much less i like fireworks than many/most people.  I mean, they're pretty... but it's fucking cold in november and you have to stand up, and masterchef and the apprentice are on, and... 

i don't think i've been to a display since i was a kid.  We had fireworks at our wedding, but that was a freebie surprise from someone who owed my FIL money, and also it was august.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

Got a great view from the Cressingham Gardens edge by the mounds.  Shame about the noise most of the day, and being shut out of the more convenient routes across the park.  Couldn't use the rotunda for refreshments after all, so somebody set up a table by that gate.  Photos later.

Also, used up some indoor sparklers while waiting - amazing how many children are scared even of these.


----------



## ChairmanJ (Nov 5, 2014)

Smick said:


> From the council tax income. From commercial sponsorship. From charging traders for pitches at the events. From car parking revenues, library fines and all other income streams.
> 
> Once we accept that leisure services deserve some funding at point of use, where will it end? Costs to borrow books at the library? To get in to the kids' park?
> 
> ...


I take your point but but that argument goes the other way too. 'Let's just make everything free.'
It's a constant prioritisation of limited funds to achieve maximum public utility and under current circumstances the fireworks have gone on to the other side of the line.


----------



## Smick (Nov 5, 2014)

ChairmanJ said:


> I take your point but but that argument goes the other way too. 'Let's just make everything free.'
> It's a constant prioritisation of limited funds to achieve maximum public utility and under current circumstances the fireworks have gone on to the other side of the line.


If they can't afford to do it to the expectations of their people then they shouldn't do it at all.

make no mistake, they'll all be patting themselves on the back, congratulating themselves on what a great job they have done.


----------



## clandestino (Nov 5, 2014)

Haha, so which of you pesky freeloaders were lurking in the fall-out zone?


Delays aside, that was a pretty good display.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 5, 2014)

prunus said:


> Well I'm there, and I can report it has changed what used to feel like an inclusive community event engendering feelings of togetherness into what feels like a fascist corporate opportunity to gouge as much money out of people as possible.
> 
> Quite depressing.



Really? Not what I saw. Plenty of different types of people.


----------



## cuppa tee (Nov 5, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> Oh yeah? This one has Disco Turtle, so there!



you mean "had Disco Turtle"
he is now being held by the Free Fireworks Faction
and will not be released until our community gets its bonfire night back


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 5, 2014)

kittyP said:


> WHat? We have had a load of bonfires here and so have out neighbours...


They obviously never made complaints,

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/pests-noise-and-pollution/pollution/report-air-pollution


----------



## Winot (Nov 5, 2014)

clandestino said:


> Haha, so which of you pesky freeloaders were lurking in the fall-out zone?
> 
> 
> Delays aside, that was a pretty good display.



Yes, display was excellent - better than last year I though both visually and in terms of timing with music. Firebird and human Catherine wheel were damp squibs though. 

Delays were irritating but what was worse was marshalling on the way in. Lots of the crowd had no idea where to queue and ended up in a dead end with no help from the organisers. 

The crowd around us seemed to be mainly white middle class 20-somethings. However that's just anecdata.

ETA getting out was much easier than last year.


----------



## buscador (Nov 5, 2014)

View from The Regent, where I have watched the fireworks for the last 15 years at least, was crap. Display apparently designed so that only people in the paying area could see anything and no "wow" blasts. Before the display even started there were people in the pub who had escaped from the gated area because it was so awful, apparently. I met several people who had managed to stay for the whole thing who felt they'd been robbed. 

I've also never seen people leaving the park walking so quickly. Usually there's a slow amble towards wherever home is, but this time people were walking purposefully and not looking like they'd enjoyed their evening - maybe because the display was half an hour late. Has it ever been late before? 

At least three people were using the car park at the back of the pub as a toilet. 

Someone I talked to suggested that Lambeth had done this charging business to "keep the riff-raff out". I pointed out that we were  in Herne Hill. She didn't talk to me again.


----------



## kittyP (Nov 5, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> They obviously never made complaints,
> 
> http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/pests-noise-and-pollution/pollution/report-air-pollution



I would have thought that would only be expected to be used if (as someone else said)it was persistent and inappropriate fires. Like burning tyres or something.
Burning wood every now and then is surely OK


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Nov 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Really? Not what I saw. Plenty of different types of people.


 I went with 4 13-14 year olds, they bumped into Loads of other teens they knew, loads of older teens, 20 somethings with smuggled bottles, scents of other substances, families, representative Brixton mix of folk, and exactly the same kind of crowd I have experienced in the last 20 years of Brockwell Park fireworks I have been to.

I'm not saying I agree with paid tickets: the better alternative is plenty of free displays so that any one doesn't get completely overcrowded.  Where I was on top of the hill last year was horrible for overcrowding once the display was over. Didn't feel safe and someone fell over in the mud and puddles and people were screaming, struggling to stop them getting trampled in the dark.

Tonight: well, £6 for 4 people, we got there early having had chips outside the park, no queuing to get in, friendly gate staff, saw the Lords of Lightning (fantastic - massively impressed the teens), saw the bonfire lit, enjoyed that, looked at some other stuff.......and then waited...and waited....and the crowd got restive....no music....hopeless announcements...and nothing happened with the human catherine wheel nearest us and the only one we could see, and then there was a long slow bit where apparently the bird was doing something but a massive portion (probably the majority) of the crowd couldn't see....and then the fireworks started. No countdown??!!!!! NO COUNTDOWN??!!! There has always been a countdown! There was a massive crowd by then, the pic in the tweet above is of the bonfire, and at 7-ish - and the crowd was very spread out doing different things at that point, the fireworks were the other side.

But then the fireworks were ace.

So, a mixed experience. The delay was a downer. And friends of ours couldn't get close enough to see much at all.


----------



## Smick (Nov 5, 2014)

From Palace Rd in Tulse Hill, the fireworks certainly sounded impressive.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 5, 2014)

ChairmanJ said:


> You short sighted, selfish idiots. Lambeth has a massive funding shortage and this is a perfect chance to help balance the books and make money available for essential services in the borough. How can we just expect them to put on the Country show and Fireworks for free?


Short sighted idiots would not be able to see the fireworks. Lambeth use the "funding shortage" for an excuse for everything, From hiring out our parks to private enterprises to selling off/knocking down housing for private development,Even investing in Tobacco companies, Lambeth Council is run by the government and that means everything is for sale.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 5, 2014)

kittyP said:


> I would have thought that would only be expected to be used if (as someone else said)it was persistent and inappropriate fires. Like burning tyres or something.
> Burning wood every now and then is surely OK


According to my angry and out of pocket neighbor it's not.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

Plenty of "wow bursts" from where I was standing.  And without being searched or herded.


----------



## T & P (Nov 5, 2014)

ChairmanJ said:


> I take your point but but that argument goes the other way too. 'Let's just make everything free.'
> It's a constant prioritisation of limited funds to achieve maximum public utility and under current circumstances the fireworks have gone on to the other side of the line.


I think you will find it's the other way around actually. Firework displays have ALWAYS been free, in Lambeth and elsewhere. It is only in the last few years when Battersea Park started charging for theirs- unheard of at the time- and now Lambeth has joined the gravy train.

So one of the few free activities families have been able to enjoy for generations is being taken away from the public by greed and bean counting. Fuck that for a laugh.

Boris Johnson is also charging for the NYE display for the first time ever. May he rot in hell like the cunt he is.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 5, 2014)

Stood on a ladder in the back garden. Had a pretty good view, and then went back in to the warm for dinner. Didn't even wake the baby


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 5, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Plenty of "wow bursts" from where I was standing.  And without being searched or herded.


Glad someone enjoyed them them - it was the most disappointing firework display from the other side of the park.


----------



## kittyP (Nov 5, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> According to my angry and out of pocket neighbor it's not.



Sorry, I am not accusing you of lying or anything  

Just more thinking that it might have been an unusual case of a very sensitive/mean spirited neighbour and a jobs worthy council employee.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> Glad someone enjoyed them them - it was the most disappointing firework display from the other side of the park.


It was bittersweet that Lambeth made the fireworks most visible to the people they want to forcibly rehouse, in a worse arrangement, and with fewer sightlines to the park.  I can only hope that people on this estate will still be able to see them ten years from now.


----------



## story (Nov 5, 2014)

ChairmanJ said:


> You short sighted, selfish idiots. Lambeth has a massive funding shortage and this is a perfect chance to help balance the books and make money available for essential services in the borough. How can we just expect them to put on the Country show and Fireworks for free?



You're not looking at the larger story here.

It's traditional in many cultures to have some kind of fire festival at this time of the year. It's translated into Diwali, Hannukka, and locally Guy Fawkes*/fireworks night. It's a chance for the community at large to gather together and knit together in advance of, and in preparation for, the long dark lean times. This goes back generations, probably thousands of years. It's important in ways that are entirely unquantifiable.

While I accept that Lambeth is busted on its arse and needs to find savings, I truly believe that the subtle damage that will potentially be done to the community by charging for the fireworks is important and significant.

I was interested to know what/how people would be thinking and feeling about this, so I didn't say much and listend a lot to what was being said around me this evening. While of course some people were saying that fair enough, Lambeth needs to find the cash from somewhere, by far the most common sentiment was along the lines that gathering as a community, with strangers and friends alike, to ooh and aaah at the fireworks, is something that has a deep and archetypal importance for the health of the community.

The other thing, which I hadn't anticipated, is that those of us who were in a garden backing onto the park felt a powerful sense of being disenfranchised (admittedly by opting out) from the nu-Brixton community who were streaming past the garden fence over there. Just by token of the fact that this is An Issue, it has already driven a thin wedge into the community.

There were a couple of independent fireworks displays in neighbouring gardens while the main display was going on, and there was a them-and-us feeling about it all, and some ironic cries of "viva la revolution!" were heard.

Fireworks night is a few short hours when we gather together as a community, and the experience of us all together on a cold winter evening, taking the trouble and the time to leave the warm house and stand in the dark shoulder to shoulder with each other, has a real impact on us as individuals, and as a community. I think the commodification of this archetypal experience will be really detrimental in the long term.


* I've not studied it closely but I suspect that one of the reasons Guy Fawkes night became so spectacularly popular is because it corresponded with some preexisting fire festival (Samhain).


----------



## leanderman (Nov 5, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Plenty of "wow bursts" from where I was standing.  And without being searched or herded.



You should congratulate Lambeth on so favouring your estate!


----------



## leanderman (Nov 5, 2014)

Smick said:


> From the council tax income. From commercial sponsorship. From charging traders for pitches at the events. From car parking revenues, library fines and all other income streams.
> 
> Once we accept that leisure services deserve some funding at point of use, where will it end? Costs to borrow books at the library? To get in to the kids' park?
> 
> ...



Leisure service?


----------



## Sirena (Nov 5, 2014)

story said:


> * I've not studied it closely but I suspect that one of the reasons Guy Fawkes night became so spectacularly popular is because it corresponded with some preexisting fire festival (Samhain).



I think you're quite correct.


----------



## Smick (Nov 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Leisure service?


Fun things.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

Prepare to be photobombed...


----------



## Rushy (Nov 5, 2014)

Winot said:


> Yes, display was excellent - better than last year I though both visually and in terms of timing with music. Firebird and human Catherine wheel were damp squibs though.
> 
> Delays were irritating but what was worse was marshalling on the way in. Lots of the crowd had no idea where to queue and ended up in a dead end with no help from the organisers.
> 
> ...


In the pub (bogs)  folk  were saying display was excellent  but organisation was abysmal and probably would not go again.


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)




----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> In the pub (bogs)  folk  were saying display was excellent  but organisation was abysmal and probably would not go again.


I agree about the organisation.  The display ran unforgivably late, and people hadn't been told in advance that one entire corner of Brockwell Park's perimeter would have no access at all, even to ticket holders.  Still, that's Lambeth for you.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 5, 2014)

story said:


> You're not looking at the larger story here.
> 
> It's traditional in many cultures to have some kind of fire festival at this time of the year. It's translated into Diwali, Hannukka, and locally Guy Fawkes*/fireworks night. It's a chance for the community at large to gather together and knit together in advance of, and in preparation for, the long dark lean times. This goes back generations, probably thousands of years. It's important in ways that are entirely unquantifiable.
> 
> ...



Some strong points. And I am especially looking forward to you 'knitting together' with the 'nu-Brixton community' members of the community!


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)




----------



## Rushy (Nov 5, 2014)

Greebo said:


> I agree about the organisation.  The display ran unforgivably late, and people hadn't been told in advance that one entire corner of Brockwell Park's perimeter would have no access at all, even to ticket holders.  Still, that's Lambeth for you.


I knew you guys would have the best view!


----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)




----------



## Greebo (Nov 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I knew you guys would have the best view!


Didn't we just!


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Nov 5, 2014)

I wholeheartedly agree with the community spirit thing around cultural traditions and festivals.

My cousin lives in Brockham and the bonfire and display is so deeply owned by the people of a very small village. No council subsidy, as far as I know. They give up weekend after weekend to build a bonfire bigger than a 4 story block of flats, they fundraise all year for the fireworks, they sponsor fireworks, all read out over the PA system like a village births, marriages and deaths column, and they have a fantastic night, attracting thousands, and seem only to have two concessions; a bar tent and a hot dog tent. And after all that they manage to give £££ s of proceeds to charity. Throughout the event volunteers do a bucket collection, asking all visitors to contribute £3 a head. And people do, I see them crossing the road to put their money in.

Would it work if Lambeth worked in a partnership with community organisations to return it to a community festival rather than a council-provided event? Lots of community groups providing Guys? Community stalls? And a sense of loyalty and community that meant all could come but those who could would be expected to make a contribution?

My son was rolling his eyes at the number of fire extinguishers round the bonfire: In Brockham the fire is lit by villagers and visitors (aged 5 and upwards - everyone wields a flaming torch!) who have processed round the village with burning torches and then thrust them into the fire. Miraculously no-one seems to get hurt (well, I fell in a ditch last year, trying to take a short cut but climbed out muddy and bruised but not damaged) , no pushing impatient crowds..... everyone takes part.


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## Crispy (Nov 6, 2014)

Brockham is not surrounded by a metropolis of 8 million people. The logisitics are neccesarily different.


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## leanderman (Nov 6, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Didn't we just!



I discovered that the closer you get the better it looks. Had always stood at the back before. Mistake.


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 6, 2014)

Went up Cressingham Gardens, had a great view, display delayed by 30+ mins because (as correctly predicted on here) they couldn't get people through the gates and into the park quick enough. No idea how many tickets sold but it looked totally packed from where I was standing.

All the locals know where the holes in the fence are on the Tulse Hill side…about 20-30 of us (kids, adults) popped thru the fence to get a better look and within literally 10 seconds we had the security heavy crew upon us. Then a mini-motorised golf cart turned up with more security heavy crew. They were basically told to f off but they had the nerve to suggest to the kids that the display was being delayed because of them!!! The brassneck! Police then turned up but they were more interested in getting a good view of the fireworks and seemed remarkably relaxed in the face of copious weed smoking.

General mood seemed to be one of disappointment: that one of the few things that people actually _like_ the Council for (the fireworks, along with the country show) now was a chargeable event - but the people I spoke to seemed to be having fun 

It was nice to see the "Save Cressingham Gardens" and "Save our Homes" banners lit up when the fireworks went off.


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## Greebo (Nov 6, 2014)




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## leanderman (Nov 6, 2014)

OvalhouseDB said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with the community spirit thing around cultural traditions and festivals.
> 
> My cousin lives in Brockham and the bonfire and display is so deeply owned by the people of a very small village. No council subsidy, as far as I know. They give up weekend after weekend to build a bonfire bigger than a 4 story block of flats, they fundraise all year for the fireworks, they sponsor fireworks, all read out over the PA system like a village births, marriages and deaths column, and they have a fantastic night, attracting thousands, and seem only to have two concessions; a bar tent and a hot dog tent. And after all that they manage to give £££ s of proceeds to charity. Throughout the event volunteers do a bucket collection, asking all visitors to contribute £3 a head. And people do, I see them crossing the road to put their money in.
> 
> ...



Best post yet in this thread. 

That is proper community action - real community - rather than people expecting the council to do it all.


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## Greebo (Nov 6, 2014)

That's all, folks.


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## buscador (Nov 6, 2014)

Great photo's, Greebo All the stuff we couldn't see and I hope you will be able to have such a great view for as many years as you want to.


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## Greebo (Nov 6, 2014)

buscador said:


> Great photo's, Greebo All the stuff we couldn't see and I hope you will be able to have such a great view for as many years as you want to.


Thanks.  You'd better thank VP too, for having given me a camera with a fireworks (very slow shutter) setting.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 6, 2014)

First time in my life I've never seen a live firework on 5 November 

Have been onto YouTube and so far there's only 2 videos up and they're only short

Just read this though on an article about the fireworks



> But it’s clear this isn’t just about scarce resources. Just this month it was revealed that Lambeth Council was spending £40,000 just in the recruitment process for a new Chief Executive. This isn’t about the cuts, it’s about priorities.



http://www.independent.co.uk/voices...for-the-brockwell-park-fireworks-9835452.html


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## OvalhouseDB (Nov 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Brockham is not surrounded by a metropolis of 8 million people. The logisitics are neccesarily different.


Yes, of course. It couldn't be just like Brockham - but they do attract huge crowds from miles around (incl central London) and I do think it is odd to take part, as a spectator, in such a deep rooted tradition as Bonfire Night and it not to be at least partly community facilitated.

ETA if you meant the flaming torches, I agree. However strong my belief in community ownership of cultural events I am not ready to argue in favour of flaming torches being handed out all and sundry in Brockwell park . Not quite.


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 6, 2014)

When I was a kid I remember bonfire night and we all sang - _everyone_ sang:

Build a bonfire
Build a bonfire
Put the Tories on the top
Put Maggie in the middle
And burn the fucking lot


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## Dan U (Nov 6, 2014)

OvalhouseDB said:


> I wholeheartedly agree with the community spirit thing around cultural traditions and festivals.
> 
> My cousin lives in Brockham and the bonfire and display is so deeply owned by the people of a very small village. No council subsidy, as far as I know. They give up weekend after weekend to build a bonfire bigger than a 4 story block of flats, they fundraise all year for the fireworks, they sponsor fireworks, all read out over the PA system like a village births, marriages and deaths column, and they have a fantastic night, attracting thousands, and seem only to have two concessions; a bar tent and a hot dog tent. And after all that they manage to give £££ s of proceeds to charity. Throughout the event volunteers do a bucket collection, asking all visitors to contribute £3 a head. And people do, I see them crossing the road to put their money in.
> 
> ...



I live in the next village to Brockham these days. It's a brilliant display run incredibly enthusiastically by 300 odd volunteers from the village. 20,000 plus attend. 

Here's the fire a couple of weeks or so ago. 







Can't wait for Saturday.


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## Utopia (Nov 6, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> First time in my life I've never seen a live firework on 5 November
> 
> Have been onto YouTube and so far there's only 2 videos up and they're only short
> 
> ...



Although I do think 40k is excessive, surely finding the right calibre of Chief Exec for Lambeth is pretty important too?


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## Tricky Skills (Nov 6, 2014)

Greebo said:


> People hadn't been told in advance that one entire corner of Brockwell Park's perimeter would have no access at all, even to ticket holders.  Still, that's Lambeth for you.



That's where the Overlay Plan would have come in handy


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## Greebo (Nov 6, 2014)

Utopia said:


> Although I do think 40k is excessive, surely finding the right calibre of Chief Exec for Lambeth is pretty important too?


Given the last few (or at least their performance), what makes you think that a cheaper one could do the job any worse?


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## Utopia (Nov 6, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Given the last few (or at least their performance), what makes you think that a cheaper one could do the job any worse?



Apparently 40k was the cost of advertising to find a new chief exec, I think they actually earn in excess of 100k PA!


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## Greebo (Nov 6, 2014)

Utopia said:


> Apparently 40k was the cost of advertising to find a new chief exec, I think they actually earn in excess of 100k PA!


Those seem to me like two easy cuts to make with minimal pain.  *Awaits somebody wading in to tell me how badly much worse Lambeth would be run with less spent on finding and retaining a new CE*


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## Tricky Skills (Nov 6, 2014)

Utopia said:


> Apparently 40k was the cost of advertising to find a new chief exec, I think they actually earn in excess of 100k PA!



The salary for whoever lands the top job can rise up to £225,000.

A further £15,000 could have been saved over the "silly mistake" of the Knight's Hill by-election, with Cllr Winifred standing down after only 49 days since first being elected, only to stand again.


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## Tricky Skills (Nov 6, 2014)

Back to fireworks - predictable, if nothing else.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 6, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Those seem to me like two easy cuts to make with minimal pain.  *Awaits somebody wading in to tell me how badly much worse Lambeth would be run with less spent on finding and retaining a new CE*



I'll job share with you Greebo.


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## Rushy (Nov 6, 2014)

Dan U said:


> I live in the next village to Brockham these days. It's a brilliant display run incredibly enthusiastically by 300 odd volunteers from the village. 20,000 plus attend.
> 
> Here's the fire a couple of weeks or so ago.
> 
> ...


Hedgehogs


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## ash (Nov 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I discovered that the closer you get the better it looks. Had always stood at the back before. Mistake.



I agree we must have been approx 10 rows back and it was the first time I'd seen the ground that the fireworks were lit from which meant I could see the whole display". The slope helped. The shoving and squash up a hill 6 inches deep in mud didn't make for a safe or dignified entrance, they should have moved the bloody barriers around the food stores. In fact once the fireworks had finished there should have been some system for the perimeter fence coming down (at least in places). If non ticket holders want to get in to queue for shitty food and drink and get a free look at the bonfire so be it. We paid for the fireworks.


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## Dan U (Nov 6, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Hedgehogs


Yeah. I think that every time I drive past. 

Casualties of war


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## Greebo (Nov 6, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I'll job share with you Greebo.


Hang on a minute, this isn't such a crazy idea as it might sound:  We've got experience of coordinating the work of several other people working in their different specialisms,  time management, budget management, resource management, looking at large amounts of information and making sense of it before reaching important decisions, passing on information, compiling information, logistics management...


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 6, 2014)

You can do the morning shift, 'cos I don't do mornings.  I'll take the late shift


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## Greebo (Nov 6, 2014)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> You can do the morning shift, 'cos I don't do mornings.  I'll take the late shift


Okay - what is it, an hour a day each?


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## nagapie (Nov 6, 2014)

Haven't had time to read the thread for a few pages but we had a lovely time watching them, perfect view, from the warmth of our bedroom. Screw you Lambeth, you can't fence off the sky.


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## boohoo (Nov 6, 2014)

Back in the past there were several displays in the borough - Clapham Common, Brockwell Park and Streatham Common. I would prefer to see it go back to that model - big bonfire and ten minutes of firework. job done.


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## leanderman (Nov 6, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Back in the past there were several displays in the borough - Clapham Common, Brockwell Park and Streatham Common. I would prefer to see it go back to that model - big bonfire and ten minutes of firework. job done.



Yes. Although Lords of Lightning, for example,  was very good, I can't see why it needs to be a three-hour event.


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## boohoo (Nov 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Yes. Although Lords of Lightning, for example,  was very good, I can't see why it needs to be a three-hour event.


if it's cold, it's a long time to be out. I was going to take my daughter (who is 2 and half) to Crystal palace but I thought it's a bit cold and I wait til 7 for the kids event and 8:30 for the grown ups which is way past her bed time.


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## Winot (Nov 6, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> The salary for whoever lands the top job can rise up to £225,000.
> 
> A further £15,000 could have been saved over the "silly mistake" of the Knight's Hill by-election, with Cllr Winifred standing down after only 49 days since first being elected, only to stand again.



Not to mention the money wasted pursuing legal action against residents who were prepared to move out anyway (Gramsci)


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## 299 old timer (Nov 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> That is proper community action - real community - rather than people expecting the council to do it all.



Once upon a time, one year in the early/mid 1970s the kids from the area built a huge bonfire on Rush Common, in the section opposite New Park Road. I can't recall any parental input (there may well have been). We were collecting scrap wood from all over. I could never imagine that sort of thing happening these days.


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## snowy_again (Nov 6, 2014)

From my bird's nest view it didn't seem as busy as previous years; most people seemed to be in by 7.30 so I'm assuming the delay allowed them to sell more £10 tickets and process queues? Lots of people left very early - much more than I've seen before, even before the fireworks had ended. 

Fireworks themselves were very good - and their coordination with the music was much better than last year's attempt; could have done with fewer chart hits, but hey I'm getting old. Did they *really* use Michael Jackson "Pretty Young Thing" at one point?! 

Over policed too - one of my neighbours decided to set off a cheeky box of fireworks on a bit of estate grass well after all the crowds had gone. 9 policemen arrived in seconds and chased him around for about ten minutes I think, until they realised that they were adults chasing another adult around for setting off a firework or three.


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## Winot (Nov 6, 2014)

boohoo said:


> if it's cold, it's a long time to be out. I was going to take my daughter (who is 2 and half) to Crystal palace but I thought it's a bit cold and I wait til 7 for the kids event and 8:30 for the grown ups which is way past her bed time.



The fireworks are too late for young kids really. Last year was the first time we took ours and they were 6 and 8. It was 9.45pm by the time they were in bed last night which is too late for a school night.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 6, 2014)

me and a few mates approached from Tulse Hill, and we were a bit shocked to see the extent to which they had gone with fencing and security. we thought it would be an easy bunk over a flimsy fence but it wasn't to be. We contemplated paying so just walked up to the gate but as the security were checking the tickets haphazardly, we just strolled past without paying or showing anything, and probably weren't noticed anyway.

I thought the fireworks were really good, and they should be if people are expected to pay for them! I liked the lords of lightning, haven't seen them outside of a music festival before, and I followed the samba band around for a while which was fun. also liked the DJ on top of the turtle structure. I didn't go on any rides or buy any food but there were big queues so I assume they done well out of it.


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## editor (Nov 6, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Back to fireworks - predictable, if nothing else.


Ooh, I like: 





> Plus please can you supply me with the guest list for the event.
> Please include details of any Cllrs, employees, sponsors or any
> other civic guests that did not have to pay for entry.


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## Ms Ordinary (Nov 6, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> It was nice to see the "Save Cressingham Gardens" and "Save our Homes" banners lit up when the fireworks went off.





I was at Cressingham gardens - didn't get as far along as the tellytubby mounds but had a great view through the fence & met some nice people - I have never been that close to big fireworks being set off & it was rather fab, even through the trees.
While we were waiting we saw a distant swirl of light which I think must've been the human Catherine Wheel which was pretty impressive, even from a distance.

Funnily enough - there was almost exactly this feel to proceedings as they kept delaying the start of the official display to let more people in .


Brixton Hatter said:


>



Do think if I'd paid, & not been allowed own booze (or music!) I'd have been more pissed off by the delay which prob accounts for some of the disgruntled tweeting afterwards from people who'd had to queue for the bars. Though really hope that people who we inside enjoyed the fair & stuff - everyone seemed pretty quick to leave afterwards but that could have just been because the display was delayed.


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## editor (Nov 6, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Back in the past there were several displays in the borough - Clapham Common, Brockwell Park and Streatham Common. I would prefer to see it go back to that model - big bonfire and ten minutes of firework. job done.


The bonfire used to be as big an attraction as the ££££s of fireworks.


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## editor (Nov 6, 2014)

Unhappy comments on the B Buzz article: 


> My partner & I went to this last night with our 4.5 year old daughter. The start of the fireworks display was delayed by 30 minutes, starting at 8.30pm rather than the advertised 8pm and after all the waiting around our daughter fell asleep. I’m sure the many other parents with young children will agree with me that this start time was far too late for the event to be enjoyed by tired sleepy youngsters and the cheesy music accompanying the event was played through a crap soundsystem and totally redundant. Don’t think we’ll be attending next year. The stress of the crowds and delays is just not worth it.





> What a shambles, massive queues, poor viewing throughout, wrong location than previous years and crammed in like animals. I’ve been going with my family for the last 6 years and it will be the last. They have taken away the fun had by a predominantly local community.
> I would prefer to have a fallow year, then revert back to the preferred free event each time, than a below par corporate/ money driven disaster.


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## jimbarkanoodle (Nov 6, 2014)

the bar was expectedly expensive- £4 a can. they weren't searching on the way in though so you could have brought plenty of booze in if you wanted (I think). did anyone with a pram have it 'randomly searched'?


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## 299 old timer (Nov 6, 2014)

I'm surprised the Coors Ice Bar didn't make a showing.


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## leanderman (Nov 6, 2014)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> the bar was expectedly expensive- £4 a can. they weren't searching on the way in though so you could have brought plenty of booze in if you wanted (I think). did anyone with a pram have it 'randomly searched'?



No searching that I saw. We brought in booze and snacks. 

Bonfire was quite impressive.


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## T & P (Nov 6, 2014)

I don't have a Twitter account, but perhaps someone who does could tweet Tessa and ask her if she had a nice time, and what she thought of it all...


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## editor (Nov 6, 2014)

299 old timer said:


> I'm surprised the Coors Ice Bar didn't make a showing.


On wheels, for maximum sales.


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## Ms T (Nov 6, 2014)

There was some spectacularly bad driving last night on Dulwich Rd. The road had been closed from just beyond the Regent so lots of people were having to turn around, having presumably ignored the signs. One driver reversed at speed down the rod and it was lucky there wasn't an accident.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 6, 2014)

ChairmanJ said:


> You short sighted, selfish idiots. Lambeth has a massive funding shortage and this is a perfect chance to help balance the books and make money available for essential services in the borough. How can we just expect them to put on the Country show and Fireworks for free?



Lambeth doesn't put the Country Show or the fireworks on "for free", and to claim that they do, shows you up as either disingenuous or thick. Lambeth charges traders a fee to trade at such events, usually fairly hefty, so it's not as if they achieve no income and, as has been made clear time and again in years past, the static traders in and around Brixton also benefit, which benefits the council by promoting the area and the traders.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> From the council tax income. From commercial sponsorship. From charging traders for pitches at the events. From car parking revenues, library fines and all other income streams.
> 
> Once we accept that leisure services deserve some funding at point of use, where will it end? Costs to borrow books at the library? To get in to the kids' park?
> 
> ...



Ever noticed how one thing that doesn't get cut is what "cabinet members" (i.e. councillors responsible for a particular set of issues) get paid. Back in the day, you did the job for expenses, and you know what? Most of the councillors back in the '70s and '80s that I knew (a lot!) were far more into public service than the gits (of whichever party) we've got in Lambeth currently, all of whom want to be the next Steve "Wanker" Reed.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 6, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Short sighted idiots would not be able to see the fireworks. Lambeth use the "funding shortage" for an excuse for everything, From hiring out our parks to private enterprises to selling off/knocking down housing for private development,Even investing in Tobacco companies, Lambeth Council is run by the government and that means everything is for sale.



I'd only add to that, that Lambeth Council *isn't* "run by the government"< but it *is* run according to government _diktat_, and that _diktat_ is all too often an excuse for timidity and inaction by the council, especially when it comes to issues of governance (and self-governance) of councillors and officers. There's far too much interplay between people who should, by dint of their job, maintain a neutral position on planning and development issues, and those who stand to benefit from a lack of neutrality.


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## salem (Nov 6, 2014)

Was a shambles from my experience last night. A friend got me a ticket and we went in at the enterence near the hootananay, followed the crowd to by the lido where there was a solid queue making it's way up the hill at a fair pace. Sign towards the top said ticket holders this way (this was the only signage I saw all night). As we got towards the top it seemed there was nothing, enterence shut or something. So the crowd (and we're talking a column of people the width and length of the path) started to go around the fencing trting to find the way in. Eventually got near the the front and were stuck for ages before someone said to go around on the mud as there was a stupid fence.

As we got in they kept making announcements that it would be delayed 15 mins and that people waiting by water lane enterence should go around (these announcements were only audiable inside the arena  ). Also heard an announcement that only ticket holders could come in and no cash sales which is odd.

Looked at the bonfire for a bit and then at 8ish they started announcing that the fireworks were starting in 5 mins and hurry to the viewing area (no signage and the security bloke I asked had no idea) got stuck in a crowd behind some bushes and it was clear we couldn't get anywhere. Turned back and watched it from under a tree where I the view was terrible. Still ended up waiting so why they went from saying everyone had 15 mins to rush to the display area.

The electric guys were good, The disco turtle was almost silent and The samba band put in a good effort but really when the highlight of the night is shuffling through the cold behind a few guys with tamborines you can't help but feel ripped off.

The first time I've paid for fireworks (well someone paid for me) and just an utter shambles.


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## Not a Vet (Nov 6, 2014)

I heard that they sold 26000 tickets by 5pm


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## leanderman (Nov 6, 2014)

Not a Vet said:


> I heard that they sold 26000 tickets by 5pm



I still suspect that charging will cost Lambeth more money than a free event.


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## Greebo (Nov 6, 2014)

salem said:


> <snip> The first time I've paid for fireworks (well someone paid for me) and just an utter shambles.


So, basically a bit Lambeth.  Sorry that you paid for such an unenjoyable evening.


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## Not a Vet (Nov 6, 2014)

I suspect that Lambeth will either break even or make a small loss. It cost them £100k last year. Ticket sales look like taking in £200k plus other income so on that basis, providing the costs were less than £300k, it will have been a success. Pissing the entire community off and wrecking the park cannot be underestimated though.


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## ffsear (Nov 6, 2014)

Massive long ques for the bar.   Being told by claphamites not to "push in"......		DO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!


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## snowy_again (Nov 6, 2014)

Not a Vet said:


> I suspect that Lambeth will either break even or make a small loss. It cost them £100k last year. Ticket sales look like taking in £200k plus other income so on that basis, providing the costs were less than £300k, it will have been a success. Pissing the entire community off and wrecking the park cannot be underestimated though.



Did you brave the pub?


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## Lizzy Mac (Nov 6, 2014)

Tonnes of those ticket sales would have been issued at nil for kids.  They, officially, needed a ticket to gain entry.


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## Smick (Nov 6, 2014)

Plus the fence and ticketing can't have been cheap.


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## story (Nov 6, 2014)

And the extra coppers in the street and the wardens standing about in their day glow tabards.

Anyone know the figures for the security for this event yet?

I saw some tabard-clad bods at the Herne Hill gate this evening: are they still on duty? Why?

And how much will it cost to put the park right?


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## Not a Vet (Nov 6, 2014)

I'm pretty sure that the 26000 tickets quoted were adult tickets as the phrase was 26000 paid. Coppers were boosted by specials


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## OvalhouseDB (Nov 6, 2014)

We went early to take everything in. I was disappointed not to see the firebird, turtle or the human Catherine wheel. We passed the turtle when it was parked up, and then didn't see it, although we looked for it, and the human catherine wheel in our sight lines stood unused, and we couldn't see the firebird, despite being on the slope right in front of the fireworks. Those features needed to have been placed further inside the firework zone for better sightlines, IMO. And as soon as the fireworks finished we needed to go home for school night reasons. That was the problem with the delay and why everyone was leaving so fast, I think.


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## leanderman (Nov 6, 2014)

ffsear said:


> Massive long ques for the bar.   Being told by claphamites not to "push in"......		DO ONE!!!!!!!!!!!



It was ever thus. BYO is the only sensible option on fireworks night. 

As for the delays, they were in part caused by people straying into the 'fall-out' zone.


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## leanderman (Nov 6, 2014)

OvalhouseDB said:


> We went early to take everything in. I was disappointed not to see the firebird, turtle or the human Catherine wheel. We passed the turtle when it was parked up, and then didn't see it, although we looked for it, and the human catherine wheel in our sight lines stood unused, and we couldn't see the firebird, despite being on the slope right in front of the fireworks. Those features needed to have been placed further inside the firework zone for better sightlines, IMO. And as soon as the fireworks finished we needed to go home for school night reasons. That was the problem with the delay and why everyone was leaving so fast, I think.



Teething troubles. It'll be better next year. 

Much more sensible to return to it being a free event however.


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## 299 old timer (Nov 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Teething troubles. It'll be better next year.



There's a comedian in the house. It won't be better, this is Lambeth.


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## goldengraham (Nov 7, 2014)

We were stood right in front of the human catherine wheel on the right. The poor guy spent about 45 minutes limbering up next to his wheel, then as soon as the show started, his fire stick blew up in his hand and he walked off holding his arm. Hopefully he wasn't hurt too badly.


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## Virtual Blue (Nov 7, 2014)

I probably go to a different borough next year. 
I don't want to experience that again...


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## leanderman (Nov 7, 2014)

Virtual Blue said:


> I probably go to a different borough next year.
> I don't want to experience that again...



Southwark's was free.


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## Greebo (Nov 7, 2014)

Virtual Blue said:


> I probably go to a different borough next year.
> I don't want to experience that again...


If they have it in more or less the same place again, you'd be more than welcome to watch from the mounds at the back of this estate.


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 7, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> From my bird's nest view it didn't seem as busy as previous years; most people seemed to be in by 7.30 so I'm assuming the delay allowed them to sell more £10 tickets and process queues? Lots of people left very early - much more than I've seen before, even before the fireworks had ended.



Some left before the display even started.  We met people in the Regent pub who had paid then left at 8.15 who said it was crowded, noisy and crap - wished they hadn't bothered getting their shoes muddy. Also met a chap afterwards, who'd also paid, who said his wife and kids had to leave before the start as it was too late for kids. 

8pm is rather late for midweek fireworks anyway, so 8.30 is too late

I thought the display not being visible outside the park was plain mean.


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## friendofdorothy (Nov 7, 2014)

When I was a little kid oop north I think big organised bonfires and firework displays were a rarity - most people / schools/ small organisations did their own small events.  Fireworks tended to be smaller and were freely sold to children in cornershops everywhere - there were a lot of accidents, terrible burns and fires. 

In the '70s I recall public information safety films on the TV each year saying things like 'dont carry fireworks in your pockets', keep them in a secure metal box', 'don't go back to a firework that fails to go off' and '*Go to an organised Public Display instead*'  Is this when local councils started doing big firework events? 

If local councils do 5th Nov events at all, it should be as a public service and as a commity event. They have no business in doing it otherwise.


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## MrSki (Nov 7, 2014)




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## ddraig (Nov 7, 2014)

bin done!


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## ash (Nov 7, 2014)

Does anyone know if the 'holding pen' was used??


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## snowy_again (Nov 9, 2014)

Went for a stroll around the Fenced area today - lots of damaged grass & paths plus newly churned up bits where crowds chose not to follow the prearranged stupidly bright longer routes to things. 

It's only grass and will grow back but it still looks like a mess.


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## Smick (Nov 9, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Went for a stroll around the Fenced area today - lots of damaged grass & paths plus newly churned up bits where crowds chose not to follow the prearranged stupidly bright longer routes to things.
> 
> It's only grass and will grow back but it still looks like a mess.


Yep, there are definitely costs beyond the financial to putting on such an event. I wouldn't mind if everyone had equal access to damage the park, but when it is done on a ticket basis, it's less palatable.


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## leanderman (Nov 9, 2014)

Smick said:


> Yep, there are definitely costs beyond the financial to putting on such an event. I wouldn't mind if everyone had equal access to damage the park, but when it is done on a ticket basis, it's less palatable.



It wasn't exactly free before though. 

Previously everyone paid through council tax - whether they went or not - and this year only those who went paid.

And some went and didn't pay. Others found a decent free vantage point.


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## Smick (Nov 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> It wasn't exactly free before though.
> 
> Previously everyone paid through council tax - whether they went or not - and this year only those who went paid.
> 
> And some went and didn't pay. Others found a decent free vantage point.


I didn't say it was free in previous years. I said it had equal access. I know quite a few families who didn't go because of the charge.

For us, we weren't sure if our kids would make it without getting tired and cranky. At a free event, that's fine. Pay £14 and leave before it starts, you'll feel like a mug.


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## Smick (Nov 9, 2014)

And if they did a first come, first served ticket which was free, I'd still object to the park being hacked up to provide an event without equal access.


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## leanderman (Nov 10, 2014)

Smick said:


> I didn't say it was free in previous years. I said it had equal access. I know quite a few families who didn't go because of the charge.
> 
> For us, we weren't sure if our kids would make it without getting tired and cranky. At a free event, that's fine. Pay £14 and leave before it starts, you'll feel like a mug.



Our four-year-old just about stayed awake - the delays seem to have been caused by three factors: 

Late comers
People straying on to the 'drop zone'
The injury to a Catherine Wheel man


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## leanderman (Nov 10, 2014)

Smick said:


> And if they did a first come, first served ticket which was free, I'd still object to the park being hacked up to provide an event without equal access.



I think it should be a short, free show at 7pm.

But I can see why Lambeth felt otherwise: cost and the problems of being one of the last free shows.


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## Smick (Nov 10, 2014)

I think a shit display might have been the best option, although you'd have had the first year where loads of people would have had to have come to discover it is shit.
Once one council moves, it displaces people and then the whole system is broken.


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## leanderman (Nov 10, 2014)

Smick said:


> I think a shit display might have been the best option, although you'd have had the first year where loads of people would have had to have come to discover it is shit.
> Once one council moves, it displaces people and then the whole system is broken.



Precisely - they should all be forced to put on free shows!

It was probably too busy last year, with the odd report of families fearing for their toddlers.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Precisely - they should all be forced to put on free shows!
> 
> It was probably too busy last year, with the odd report of families fearing for their toddlers.



Probably families with children fearing all those single adults may be paedophiles


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## Greebo (Nov 10, 2014)

(((families with children who don't realise where families come from)))


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## Tricky Skills (Dec 4, 2014)

Apologies for bumping an old thread. Chuffing Lambeth fireworks have taken up too much of my time over the past few months...

My FoI about the numbers of people attending, plus details of the guest list has been answered today.

Sort of.

Today was the legal deadline for a response from Lambeth Council. It looks like they have just shunted it back. The figures are going to be self-published on the Council's website at a later date.

I do hope that the VIP list will also be published, something that was a central part of the FoI.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 4, 2014)

Why bother even responding if they're not going to supply any information 

They''re probably still waiting for their legal team to tell them how to respond properly


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## cuppa tee (Dec 4, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> I do hope that the VIP list will also be published


Me too, but i'm sure my cynicism will be crushed upon learning all the councillors and their bffs paid at least the discounted ticket price to attend this _event_


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## leanderman (Dec 5, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Apologies for bumping an old thread. Chuffing Lambeth fireworks have taken up too much of my time over the past few months...
> 
> My FoI about the numbers of people attending, plus details of the guest list has been answered today.
> 
> ...



I suspect they saved far less money than they hoped.


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## paolo (Dec 6, 2014)

It will be interesting to see the numbers. I suspect your suspicion may be right.


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## Tricky Skills (Dec 20, 2014)

Possibly the final Brixton Buzz fireworks post for 2014. And thank the chuffers for that.

Although this FoI still needs tidying up a little...

Some of the headline points:

Lambeth Council budgeted back in September for a total cost to the Council being £44,807. The final figure was £72,704.48 - a £27,897 overspend.

48,000 people were expected to attend the ticketed display. 26,791 was the final figure on the night. Most surprising was the number of under 16's. 24,000 were planned for. Only 3,361 attended.

There is talk of two displays next year, with one starting earlier for younger folk.

The bonfire has been officially described as a "shambles" in a council document.

Ticketing is here to to stay though. There is a suggestion that the Streatham lantern experiment may also be the way forward as an alternative.


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## leanderman (Dec 20, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Possibly the final Brixton Buzz fireworks post for 2014. And thank the chuffers for that.
> 
> Although this FoI still needs tidying up a little...
> 
> ...



Good work. 

The key figure is how much their loss is, compared with the year before. 

And - at £22k - it looks barely enough to have made it worth upsetting so many people.


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## boohoo (Dec 20, 2014)

Tricky Skills The timing for fireworks displays was a bit off for the kids. The Streatham event didn't take into account parents who work and are coming home to pick up their kids so I think it could do with being a little later. 

They must have lost money on the event as they were down about over a third of the attendance and they overspent - bad on both accounts. 

I wander how much research went into what they were doing before they went ahead with it.


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## Tricky Skills (Dec 20, 2014)

boohoo said:


> Tricky Skills The timing for fireworks displays was a bit off for the kids. The Streatham event didn't take into account parents who work and are coming home to pick up their kids so I think it could do with being a little later.



It was the whole under 16's thing that surprised me the most. There has been a major cock up here in terms of planning. Once again - 24,000 under 16's were expected.  3,361 was the final figure.

Timing was probably an issue. What I find 'interesting' (soul-destroying) is that by charging for an event, this somehow changes the ethos from community to paying adults.


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## boohoo (Dec 20, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> It was the whole under 16's thing that surprised me the most. There has been a major cock up here in terms of planning. Once again - 24,000 under 16's were expected.  3,361 was the final figure.
> 
> Timing was probably an issue. What I find 'interesting' (soul-destroying) is that by charging for an event, this somehow changes the ethos from community to paying adults.



That is a really low figure for under 16s but it was a late start - 8 (and then it was late). so then you have to get kids home and to bed when they are excited from having a late night. I didn't even take my two year old to the paying crystal palace fireworks at 7:00 it still was a bit late for her to chill out from (and for many pre-schoolers they are in bed by then).

I think the moving it to one park sited the community in one area and that it wasn't fireworks for all of Lambeth. Brockwell Park is a good 20 minutes from the Crown Point end of Lambeth - if there was one at Streatham, it's next door. Same for those in Vauxhall. 

When I were a kid we went to Clapham Common.


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## leanderman (Dec 20, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> It was the whole under 16's thing that surprised me the most. There has been a major cock up here in terms of planning. Once again - 24,000 under 16's were expected.  3,361 was the final figure.
> 
> Timing was probably an issue. What I find 'interesting' (soul-destroying) is that by charging for an event, this somehow changes the ethos from community to paying adults.



I've always felt it was much more popular with non-kids.


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## sparkybird (Dec 20, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> 48,000 people were expected to attend the ticketed display. 26,791 was the final figure on the night. Most surprising was the number of under 16's. 24,000 were planned for. Only 3,361 attended.



Well done Tricky! I wonder what how the stalls selling booze and food at the event felt about the lower attendance. Maybe, they'd not bother next year? 

Was it made clear if the target of 24K kids was included in their 48K total no's expected? If so then they hit their targets for adults.... and therefore the ticket revenue, so the loss must all have been overspend....


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## Tricky Skills (Dec 20, 2014)

Yes - the 24,000 kids was part of the overall 48,000. So the hard financial targets have just about been met.

But I think that the wider debate should be about inclusion and community.


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## ricbake (Dec 20, 2014)

Online sales
resident – 2,000 (2,000 planned for) £6 each =  £12,000
adult – 19,960 (22,000 planned for)£7 each = £139,720
U16 – 3,361 (24,000 planned for)  £0 

*Library Sales*
Adult – 495	   at	 £6	each	£2970
U16 – 313		at	  £0

*On the Door*
Adult – 3,490	  at	£10  each   £34,900
U16 – 303		at	£0 

Total value of Ticket sales = £189,590 
Total Adults (Inc Residents) 25,945
Total Under 16					 3,977

So the result is the council spent £72,704.48 and some 20,000 kids missed out on fireworks this year -"Shambles"
and it cost an additional £189,590 to those attending


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## Greebo (Dec 20, 2014)

Tbf some of the under 16s (and over 16s) watched from the edge of this estate and had a better view than ticket holders.  Even so, it's a shame that anyone missed out.


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## uk benzo (Dec 20, 2014)

So lambeth council will have to balance the loss with council tax money after having financially excluded the very same Lambeth residents that pay said council tax.


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## gaijingirl (Dec 20, 2014)

By all accounts the Streatham one was lovely.  A friend offered to take my older daughter (4) with her and her daughter to Brockwell park for me - but I really did feel it was too late on a school night for that - and hearing how it all started late I'm glad I made that decision.  It's hard to get it right really.. Streatham is fine if you're a stay at home mum/dad because it started really early 4ish I think, but obviously doesn't work for those who need to get home first after work, which was me this year.  It sounded lovely though - I hope to be able to make that another time.  I really dislike the commercial aspect of these things - the £5 glowy sticks, the fairground rides, the numerous places trying to part you with your money - especially when I have the kids with me.


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## boohoo (Dec 20, 2014)

gaijingirl when I was little, the main thing was to see a few fireworks and if you were really lucky you might get a glowy thing though not many people sold them. I remember when my mum took warm jacket potatoes when we went to see the fireworks. I'd prefer a few little events spread across the borough.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 20, 2014)

boohoo said:


> gaijingirl when I was little, the main thing was to see a few fireworks and if you were really lucky you might get a glowy thing though not many people sold them. I remember when my mum took warm jacket potatoes when we went to see the fireworks. I'd prefer a few little events spread across the borough.



We used to go to events that were usually held on farms and there were always jacket spuds.  There was always Catherine Wheels as well.  Never see them nowadays


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## gaijingirl (Dec 20, 2014)

boohoo said:


> gaijingirl when I was little, the main thing was to see a few fireworks and if you were really lucky you might get a glowy thing though not many people sold them. I remember when my mum took warm jacket potatoes when we went to see the fireworks. I'd prefer a few little events spread across the borough.



When we first started doing the Brockwell fireworks there was nothing that I remember.. over the years, and I'm only talking the last 14 years at most (probably less) there's been more and more stuff to buy.  It's so hard with the kids because they want everything and they don't necessarily understand why they can't have everything and it can turn what should be an enjoyable event into something much more stressful.  I really worry about this - not just at this but in general because so many similar events are about making money.  So I agree - I'd prefer something smaller - little events spread across the borough sounds good - and less focused on the commercial and more on the idea of people who live close together getting together and having a laugh.


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## Smick (Dec 20, 2014)

I had intended to get onto eBay and buy a load of fibre optic glow stick things from China, give them to my daughter's friends on the day and maybe being a few with me on the evening for kids I might see. I was also going to bring some mulled wine in a flask and maybe some curry and rice in an insulated container. I suppose I still would have been stung for a few quid on the amusement rides. Anyway,I felt I had been fairly fleeced even when there was no charge to get in. Not a chance I'd spend 5p if I paid in.

There was someone on here last year who had a food stall. Does anyone know them to ask if they did it this year?


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## Smick (Dec 20, 2014)

Woodbox , Calling woodbox


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## ricbake (Dec 20, 2014)

Taking the pie chart diagram for the breakdown and the income from ticket sales of £189,500 as equivalent to 27,000 @ £7
Infrastructure = .36p out of £7 x 27000 = £9720
Licensing =	  .07p   = £1890
Ticketing =  .59 p   =  £15,930
Event Mange = £1.41 = £38,070
Grounds maintenance = .32 = £8,640
Firework + Ents =  £1.10   =  £29,700
Toilets	 =		   0.25p	=  £6,750
H+S				   =  .54p   =  £14,580
Medical	   =	 .14	  =   £3,740
Security + fence = £1.80   =  £48,600
Communications =  0.41   =   £11,070

out of each £7 ticket


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## leanderman (Dec 20, 2014)

ricbake said:


> Online sales
> resident – 2,000 (2,000 planned for) £6 each =  £12,000
> adult – 19,960 (22,000 planned for)£7 each = £139,720
> U16 – 3,361 (24,000 planned for)  £0
> ...



How do you know 20,000 kids missed out?


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## ricbake (Dec 20, 2014)

24,000 expected less than 4000 had tickets


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## leanderman (Dec 20, 2014)

ricbake said:


> 24,000 expected less than 4000 had tickets



Was the 24,000 predicted for 2014 not just a guess, as opposed to being based on a count of kids in 2013?

I don't think much can be inferred from it. 

I imagine fewer kids attended than in 2013, but I doubt there was a Herodian, 83% cull.


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## ricbake (Dec 20, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Was the 24,000 predicted for 2014 not just a guess, as opposed to being based on a count of kids in 2013?
> 
> I don't think much can be inferred from it.
> 
> I imagine fewer kids attended than in 2013, but I doubt there was a Herodian, 83% cull.


They are the Councils figures


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## leanderman (Dec 20, 2014)

ricbake said:


> They are the Councils figures



I am aware of that. 

The 24,000 was a guess - and not a basis on which to infer that 20,000 kids 'missed out' (although some, probably many, certainly did).


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## ricbake (Dec 21, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I am aware of that.
> 
> The 24,000 was a guess - and not a basis on which to infer that 20,000 kids 'missed out' (although some, probably many, certainly did).


They planned for 24000 adults and 26000 had tickets - they also planned for 24000 under 16 and only 4000 tickets were issued. Is there nothing to be inferred from this?


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## Winot (Dec 21, 2014)

ricbake said:


> They planned for 24000 adults and 26000 had tickets - they also planned for 24000 under 16 and only 4000 tickets were issued. Is there nothing to be inferred from this?



We can infer that Lambeth's estimate was wrong. The likelihood is that some kids were going to go but didn't. What we can't say was that there were 20,000 kids that were excluded.


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## gaijingirl (Dec 21, 2014)

Smick said:


> I had intended to get onto eBay and buy a load of fibre optic glow stick things from China, give them to my daughter's friends on the day and maybe being a few with me on the evening for kids I might see. I was also going to bring some mulled wine in a flask and maybe some curry and rice in an insulated container. I suppose I still would have been stung for a few quid on the amusement rides. Anyway,I felt I had been fairly fleeced even when there was no charge to get in. Not a chance I'd spend 5p if I paid in.
> 
> There was someone on here last year who had a food stall. Does anyone know them to ask if they did it this year?



yes.. I've always brought a flask of mulled wine and we also have all the glow sticks - we take them camping every year - but it's just this feeling of constantly being surrounded by stuff to buy.. buy buy buy - I find it quite oppressive - same with Christmas tbh.  I'm not one of life's shoppers - I do keep threatening to take the whole family off to live in a tree.  I think next year we might do a bonfire in our back garden - or maybe a few years down the line when both kids are a bit older.


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## leanderman (Dec 21, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> yes.. I've always brought a flask of mulled wine and we also have all the glow sticks - we take them camping every year - but it's just this feeling of constantly being surrounded by stuff to buy.. buy buy buy - I find it quite oppressive - same with Christmas tbh.  I'm not one of life's shoppers - I do keep threatening to take the whole family off to live in a tree.  I think next year we might do a bonfire in our back garden - or maybe a few years down the line when both kids are a bit older.



It's amazing that some people can't survive a 90-minute event without feeling the need to buy something


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## Smick (Dec 21, 2014)

leanderman said:


> It's amazing that some people can't survive a 90-minute event without feeling the need to buy something


It's pester power. And it's why those stalls and fairground rides are there. Or people who have come straight from work and are hungry. Nobody thinks any of it represents value, yet the queues are long. The food is mostly muck, the drinks are in flimsy plastic glasses, yet cost as much as going to the Prince Regent. But as it was a night's entertainment free at point of usage, people were probably inclined to write off a quid or two.

 I'll bet that the cost of the ticket has not impacted most people's budget for the evening and those who will have spent £30 on the night, but spent £14 on tickets will have, in the main, spent £16 or less.


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## Gramsci (Dec 28, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> Possibly the final Brixton Buzz fireworks post for 2014. And thank the chuffers for that.



Excellent piece Tricky.

People paid for this:





> the report is highly critical:
> 
> “Bonfire – shambles – far too late in build, led to a potentially unsafe working environment and poor look for early crowds to see pallet boxes lying around. Needs to be ready to go and fully inspected and signed off BEFORE gates open.”



I would have thought getting the actual bonfire ready was the main thing.


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## ricbake (Dec 28, 2014)

Winot said:


> We can infer that Lambeth's estimate was wrong. The likelihood is that some kids were going to go but didn't. What we can't say was that there were 20,000 kids that were excluded.


Lambeth managed to under estimate the number of adults by 2,000 and over estimate the number of kids by 20,000 ...


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## SpamMisery (Dec 28, 2014)

It's not remotely surprising they got their estimates out after introducing a major change such as paying for tickets. If someone had asked me to predict how many adults would turn up and I was 92% correct - like they were - I'd be well happy with that


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## SpamMisery (Dec 28, 2014)

And whilst I'm at it, all these FOIs are an inordinate waste of public money. It only takes about 75 FOIs to require a single individual to be employed full time on around £30,000 replying to all this rubbish. [The 75 figure is derived from each FOI taking the full amount of time (£600) to process. The £600 is routinely calculated as roughly 3 full days work - and that doesn't include the cost of rereading material to assess whether it can be included or exempted, or the admin staff who facilitate requests as part of their day, or buying commercial/building bespoke software to monitor FOI progress, or senior staff's time spent approving release, or paper generation, or having an independent auditor to assess your complaint that the FOI wasn't handled correctly etc etc].

Most successful FOIs are pointless in the sense nothing ever comes of it. The FOI requester gets the response, grumbles to themselves about how useless the government is but never acts upon the information gained. Those who have really benefited from the Act are the papers. A huge segment of requests come from journalists who are fishing for stories. The irony here is that the public are paying for the research of those FOI-derived stories through their taxes (i.e. We pay the salary of the civil servant who does the "research"). Then the public has to pay again to buy the paper within which their FOI sourced story appears. Genius.

FOI is a brilliant piece of open government legislation but it was the worst decision Blair ever made - the cost/benefit of enacting it was never fully understood until years later. If it could be automated, fine. Until then, it's an opportunity for every crackpot in the world to waste public money over issues and events which are of no consequence.


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## SpamMisery (Dec 28, 2014)

I probably should point out that when I say "all these FOIs" and "events ... of no consequence" I'm not specifically referring to the fireworks in Brockwell


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## Tricky Skills (Dec 28, 2014)

SpamMisery - your £600 figure for each FoI is optimistic. Government guidance states that an FoI should cost £25 per hour to service. Your £600 figure would mean 24 hours work - 3 full days work for each FoI.

I know that the cogs of localgov can turn slowly, but for the bulk of FoI's, this is highly unlikely.

Lambeth have got wise to FoI's and are actually saving money. A number of FoI's that I have put in have led to the Council self-publishing the results.

This sharing of data by default is the way to go. If localgov was more open then there would be no need for FoI's.


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## SpamMisery (Dec 28, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> your £600 figure for each FoI is optimistic. Government guidance states that an FoI should cost £25 per hour to service. Your £600 figure would mean 24 hours work - 3 full days work for each FoI.



£600 is the figure routinely used inside government and I said the calculation assumes the full use of the 3 day limit. Also, I didn't include the non-salary costs to employers which can almost double the outlay. Hell, let's call it 100 FOIs, it's still a very small number


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## Twattor (Dec 28, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> And whilst I'm at it, all these FOIs are an inordinate waste of public money. It only takes about 75 FOIs to require a single individual to be employed full time on around £30,000 replying to all this rubbish. [The 75 figure is derived from each FOI taking the full amount of time (£600) to process. The £600 is routinely calculated as roughly 3 full days work - and that doesn't include the cost of rereading material to assess whether it can be included or exempted, or the admin staff who facilitate requests as part of their day, or buying commercial/building bespoke software to monitor FOI progress, or senior staff's time spent approving release, or paper generation, or having an independent auditor to assess your complaint that the FOI wasn't handled correctly etc etc].
> 
> Most successful FOIs are pointless in the sense nothing ever comes of it. The FOI requester gets the response, grumbles to themselves about how useless the government is but never acts upon the information gained. Those who have really benefited from the Act are the papers. A huge segment of requests come from journalists who are fishing for stories. The irony here is that the public are paying for the research of those FOI-derived stories through their taxes (i.e. We pay the salary of the civil servant who does the "research"). Then the public has to pay again to buy the paper within which their FOI sourced story appears. Genius.
> 
> FOI is a brilliant piece of open government legislation but it was the worst decision Blair ever made - the cost/benefit of enacting it was never fully understood until years later. If it could be automated, fine. Until then, it's an opportunity for every crackpot in the world to waste public money over issues and events which are of no consequence.



Having witnessed Tricky Skills (un)successes and the associated prevarications and evasiveness, i'm inclined to agree.  if someone of his level of perspicacity can't scythe through the bullshit, what hope have the rest of us.


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## Tricky Skills (Dec 28, 2014)

You *can* get through to the data Twattor if you really want it. At Brixton Buzz we've managed to find out a little more about the way that the Co-op Council is operating through submitting FoI's.

The Court Summons story for non-payment of Brixton BID money came via an Foi. Likewise the possibility of 'segregation' at the Country Show, and the whole pimping out of the Comms Team.

The issue with the fireworks Overlay Plan was more cat and mouse. The Council knew that we already had the document. They refused to release it publicly, but challenged us to publish it once again and take the legal consequences.

Perspicacity can only go so far when you are up against the legal resources of Lambeth Council.

But we are finding that once an FoI is submitted, rather than be answered directly, the Council then self-publishes.


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## Manter (Dec 28, 2014)

SpamMisery said:


> And whilst I'm at it, all these FOIs are an inordinate waste of public money. It only takes about 75 FOIs to require a single individual to be employed full time on around £30,000 replying to all this rubbish. [The 75 figure is derived from each FOI taking the full amount of time (£600) to process. The £600 is routinely calculated as roughly 3 full days work - and that doesn't include the cost of rereading material to assess whether it can be included or exempted, or the admin staff who facilitate requests as part of their day, or buying commercial/building bespoke software to monitor FOI progress, or senior staff's time spent approving release, or paper generation, or having an independent auditor to assess your complaint that the FOI wasn't handled correctly etc etc].
> 
> Most successful FOIs are pointless in the sense nothing ever comes of it. The FOI requester gets the response, grumbles to themselves about how useless the government is but never acts upon the information gained. Those who have really benefited from the Act are the papers. A huge segment of requests come from journalists who are fishing for stories. The irony here is that the public are paying for the research of those FOI-derived stories through their taxes (i.e. We pay the salary of the civil servant who does the "research"). Then the public has to pay again to buy the paper within which their FOI sourced story appears. Genius.
> 
> FOI is a brilliant piece of open government legislation but it was the worst decision Blair ever made - the cost/benefit of enacting it was never fully understood until years later. If it could be automated, fine. Until then, it's an opportunity for every crackpot in the world to waste public money over issues and events which are of no consequence.


So we find out stuff and provide employment  

It's practically a public service!


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## leanderman (Dec 28, 2014)

Manter said:


> So we find out stuff and provide employment
> 
> It's practically a public service!



And much of the stuff they keep secret need not be kept secret.

Trivial stuff - such as the schedule for repaving - can be extracted only by extreme measures.


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## Manter (Dec 28, 2014)

leanderman said:


> And much of the stuff they keep secret need not be kept secret.
> 
> Trivial stuff - such as the schedule for repaving - can be extracted only by extreme measures.


In all seriousness, I think that is what is most important- breaking that culture of secrecy. The idea that the little people don't need to know/ wouldn't understand


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## leanderman (Dec 28, 2014)

Manter said:


> In all seriousness, I think that is what is most important- breaking that culture of secrecy. The idea that the little people don't need to know/ wouldn't understand



Exactly - it's so insulting.


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## snowy_again (Sep 5, 2017)

So ticketed event for max 30,000 people (less than their attendance forecast for last year) on Saturday 4th November. 

A 20 minute firework display - Prices  £6.50/3.00 adults / children


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## editor (Sep 5, 2017)

snowy_again said:


> So ticketed event for max 30,000 people (less than their attendance forecast for last year) on Saturday 4th November.
> 
> A 20 minute firework display - Prices  £6.50/3.00 adults / children



A whole twenty minutes, you say? 

The firework display used to be a real local highlight until Lambeth killed it off.


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## shakespearegirl (Sep 5, 2017)

You might get a whole 20 minutes of fireworks, if:

You can get into the park
You can see anything from your vantage point 

Based on the reports from the last ticketed even neither of these are guaranteed... 

I used to love the fireworks but I ain't paying to go and see them unless there are reassurances that they have sorted out all of the logistical problems.


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## snowy_again (Sep 5, 2017)

C'mon if you're going to adapt that post into a buzz piece at least do the rest of the googling!

Lambeth Fireworks

Home

Lambeth Fireworks

A range of prices, priority viewing tickets etc. £10 on the night etc. [edit] it says that they don't anticipate selling tickets on the night.


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## snowy_again (Sep 5, 2017)

They seem to have C&P'd the Country Show FAQs and tweaked a couple of things: FAQs


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## jimbarkanoodle (Sep 5, 2017)

i ran straight through the entrance a couple of years back when they wanted a tenner. They can get fucked if they think im paying, when it used to be free


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## jimbarkanoodle (Sep 5, 2017)

_No external food or drink can be brought into the show, there will be an abundance of caterers offering a huge array of food from all over the world.

_


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## snowy_again (Sep 5, 2017)

Camping chairs are simultaneously banned and not banned. Chaos I tell thee.


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## editor (Sep 5, 2017)

snowy_again said:


> C'mon if you're going to adapt that post into a buzz piece at least do the rest of the googling!
> 
> Lambeth Fireworks
> 
> ...


I thought it was just proposed. I didn't realise that the ticket page was already set up! Why is the councillor asking our opinion if it's already a done deal?!

I've updated the page anyway. Thanks for the info.


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## editor (Sep 5, 2017)

Sloppy or what? 



> Access to the event will be via two main entrances, one located at XXXX Brixton


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## editor (Sep 5, 2017)

Fucking £10.


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## T & P (Sep 5, 2017)

Do they have an app?


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## hendo (Sep 5, 2017)

I'm not going unless there's some shopping to celebrate.


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## Lizzy Mac (Sep 5, 2017)

I paid to go last time due to my young Godson and it was waste of money.
It started really late, not good with a 6 year old on a school night.
There were tonnes of families with crying children everywhere, most adults stood looking at their phones.  No vibe.  The food stalls were not impressive.  I think we had to endure a terrible speech after the long wait.  
They had meanly moved the display to an area not easily viewed from the outside.
People I know had invited friends around to their gardens as they could normally view them from there.  Not now.  Boo, meanies.
Only it being on a Saturday night this time might tempt me down.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2017)

Lizzy Mac said:


> I paid to go last time due to my young Godson and it was waste of money.
> It started really late, not good with a 6 year old on a school night.
> There were tonnes of families with crying children everywhere, most adults stood looking at their phones.  No vibe.  The food stalls were not impressive.  I think we had to endure a terrible speech after the long wait.
> They had meanly moved the display to an area not easily viewed from the outside.
> ...


yeh if it's fucked up they may riot and then you'll see fireworks


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## friendofdorothy (Sep 5, 2017)

For years I've watched Brockwell fireworks from a pub on Dulwich road. They designed it last year so we couldn't see them. 


Lizzy Mac said:


> Not now.  Boo, meanies.


 indeed.


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## T & P (Sep 5, 2017)

FFS, I understand budgets being tight but I'm sure the money could be found to keep it free, even from private sponsorship if nothing else.


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## salem (Sep 5, 2017)

The thing is being one of the only free fireworks displays would mean dangerous overcrowding as people come from all over the city, I wouldn't be surprised if the fireworks were a minor cost with security and fencing taking up the bulk of the ticket fee.

If each borough had a fireworks display like they used to it'd disperse the crowds and remove the need for ticketing and fencing with the end cost to the tax payer being fairly negligible.


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