# The 2017 General Election campaign



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2017)

So Corbyn's opening gambit is going for the _anti-establishment _position.
Hmmm...a sensible start?
He's all about the superstructure; no base, no base?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 21, 2017)

I'll have another go at that...sober!

Labour appear to have opened their campaign by positing Corbyn as the champion of the those oppressed by the 'rigged system'...so far, so good...but then appear to have cast that in terms of Corbyn's Labour being anti-establishment.

This then drew the obvious media response of pushing LP representatives on who/what constitutes _the establishment, _and perhaps more damagingly, asserting that they themselves are part of the thing that they've identified as _the _problem.

It may just be an early_, _uncertain, glitchy start to the campaign...but if an 'anti-establishment' theme is to be the leitmotif of their strategy, then Labour may be in more trouble than we realise. Certainly it's good to see the left party of capital tentatively attacking the class-war of advanced neoliberalism, but then to present the functioning of the base as a result of some supposed superstructural elite is infantilising those meant to be hearing the message.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 21, 2017)

Tories are so worried that they won't be able to deploy their 'fear-factor' tactics they're talking down their chances.





> The first week of the UK’s election campaign ended with the unusual sight of senior Conservatives claiming they do not believe the opinion polls and insisting that Theresa May could be heading for defeat. Sample the FT’s top stories for a week You select the topic, we deliver the news. Select topic Enter email addressInvalid email Sign up By signing up you confirm that you have read and agree to the terms and conditions, cookie policy and privacy policy. With some polls giving the Tories a lead of more than 20 points over Labour the pessimism might seem extraordinary: in fact, the gloom is highly tactical. To win a thumping victory, Mrs May must first scare voters into thinking she could lose.


lol


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2017)

Huge boost for the people's party...


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 24, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Huge boost for the people's party...
> 
> View attachment 105146




Not a day goes past I don't see a guy in a furry hat waving a hammer and sickle banner. Surely now the legions of Socialists will come out to vote for a fairer society!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> Not a day goes past I don't see a guy in a furry hat waving a hammer and sickle banner. Surely now the legions of Socialists will come out to vote for a fairer society!


1229 votes nationally in 2015...so could be crucial.


----------



## chilango (Apr 24, 2017)

Any of the groups able to scrape together the funds to run candidates? Or are they all falling in behind Corbyn?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2017)

Meanwhile over at Libertarian towers...


----------



## agricola (Apr 24, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Meanwhile over at Libertarian towers...
> 
> View attachment 105147



He can't even do honeyed words right.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 24, 2017)

All those Tory mps on the news this evening going on about how on the doorstep people from all parties love Theresa May. I nearly sicked in my mouth.


----------



## ricbake (Apr 24, 2017)

May gives me the creaps.... like a cross between a Dr Who villain and Michael Howard..... I think Blair and Cameron came across as more trustworthy - Heaven help us!
Corbyn is old school retro lefty who you would probably want to help cross the road rather than have him lead you any where. He isn't going to be in charge of anything.
Farrow can hardly be noticed and won't be missed whenever where ever he ends up...

Could be time for the Monster Raving Looney party to come to the fore


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 24, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Huge boost for the people's party...
> 
> View attachment 105146



We eagerly await news from CPGB, CPB, TUSC, SWP, RCG and the SP.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 24, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Meanwhile over at Libertarian towers...
> 
> View attachment 105147



What about welders? Olympic fencers? 

Ordinary folk with every right to choose what they put on their heads or don't?


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 24, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> What about welders? Olympic fencers?
> 
> Ordinary folk with every right to choose what they put on their heads or don't?



We may never see another solar eclipse!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> What about welders? Olympic fencers?
> 
> Ordinary folk with every right to choose what they put on their heads or don't?


Plenty of folks having to navigate London streets wear masks.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 24, 2017)

It's almost as if they make this shit up in between rounds at a pub quiz.


----------



## gosub (Apr 24, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Meanwhile over at Libertarian towers...
> 
> View attachment 105147



 Will nobody think of the welders


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 24, 2017)

gosub said:


> Will nobody think of the welders



Them scary welders!


----------



## Voley (Apr 25, 2017)

((((Slipknot))))


----------



## pesh (Apr 25, 2017)

((((paintballers))))


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 25, 2017)

((((Chainsaw operators! ))))


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 25, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Ordinary folk with every right to choose what they put on their heads or don't?



I actually heard Nuttall say that it's not fair that he's not allowed to go into a bank wearing a balaclava or crash helmet.


----------



## Lurdan (Apr 25, 2017)

Think about the Spawn of Satan !!


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Apr 25, 2017)

A realistic outcome might well be that Labour do not do as badly expected & Lib Dems get back most of the seats they lost at last election resulting in another hung parliment.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 25, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> We eagerly await news from CPGB, CPB, TUSC, SWP, RCG and the SP.


The SWP are not only calling for a Labour vote, they even seem to think they can win it.


----------



## chilango (Apr 25, 2017)

emanymton said:


> The SWP are not only calling for a Labour vote, they even seem to think they can win it.



...so they've dropped the "no illusions" bit then


----------



## emanymton (Apr 25, 2017)

chilango said:


> ...so they've dropped the "no illusions" bit then


Pretty much.


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 25, 2017)

(((Armed bank robbers)))


----------



## Lurdan (Apr 25, 2017)

That Mirror story talks about the 'Communist Party of Great Britain' but in fact  mean the CPB rather than 'Weekly Worker'. Somewhat unclear statement of support for Corbyn from Dave Nellist seems to imply TUSC also have no plans to stand anywhere. And Class War are not putting up any candidates. 

((((deposits))))


----------



## Rimbaud (Apr 25, 2017)

SaskiaJayne said:


> A realistic outcome might well be that Labour do not do as badly expected & Lib Dems get back most of the seats they lost at last election resulting in another hung parliment.



...resulting in a failure of anyone to form a government as Lib Dems are too afraid to work with the Tories again, making a second election necessary and deepening the ongoing political farce. Would be glorious to watch.


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Apr 25, 2017)

Rimbaud said:


> ...resulting in a failure of anyone to form a government as Lib Dems are too afraid to work with the Tories again, making a second election necessary and deepening the ongoing political farce. Would be glorious to watch.


It's about sanity prevailing really. Real world least worst option. If we get a hung parliament then put the cunts in a locked room & don't let them out until they come up with some workable solution. I agree that would be glorious to watch. The Dutch seem to manage it. You can't keep having elections if you don't like the result of the last one. Really we should not be having this one. The Tories broke brexit so they should have owned it until 2020.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 25, 2017)

the lib dems have already stated clearly they'd work with the tories again. The utter filth of them


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 25, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> the lib dems have already stated clearly they'd work with the tories again. The utter filth of them


Now claiming they won't go into coalition with anybody. Two faced fucks will say anything to anybody to get votes.


----------



## Old Spark (Apr 25, 2017)

Clause 5 to get the blame .

The Guardian view on Labour’s manifesto process: get ready for the blame game | Editorial


----------



## marty21 (Apr 25, 2017)

first time in about 30 years that I can't stay up all night to watch the coverage - maybe that's a blessing. I do have the next day off, as I'm driving down to Devon, so might even go to bed before the polls close and get up early doors to see the potentially grim result


----------



## Ungrateful (Apr 25, 2017)

Can't see any prospect of Labour recovering. Their supporters seem to have disappeared. What happened to the mass of young enthused Corbynistas? They're okay on social media prattling on to people who already agree with them, but too cowardly to go out onto the streets and knock on doors and face rejection. Nauseously, I've only seen Tories door knocking and campaigning around here in this marginal constituency. Twelve years ago, Tories were so demoralized around here they dared not use their logo or party leader on their election literature (their local campaign manager even defected to the Lib Dems). Ugh.... I am not looking forward June 9th....


----------



## Old Spark (Apr 25, 2017)

Corbyns cabal said to have given up by Labour unhinged.


More signs Corbyn’s cabal has abandoned Labour’s key seats and is focused on the next leadership contest «  Labour Uncut


----------



## Old Spark (Apr 25, 2017)

It comes to something when paul staines is showing Labour how to campaign-not that voters would listen.

Flashback: On This Day 2016 - Guido Fawkes


----------



## Old Spark (Apr 25, 2017)

The uk electorate and its demographic.

YouGov |  The demographics dividing Britain


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 25, 2017)

SaskiaJayne said:


> A *realistic* outcome might well be that Labour do not do as badly expected & Lib Dems get back most of the seats they lost at last election resulting in another hung parliment.



Not _very_ realistic surely ....


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Apr 26, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Not _very_ realistic surely ....


It depends on voters in Labour held constituencies. If they cannot bring themselves to vote Tory in the end then Labour might keep most of their seats. It sounds reasonable that some of the Lib Dem seats that went to Tories at the last GE might well go back to the Lib Dems so it would not take that much of an earthquake for things to end up pretty much as they are but with the Tories small majority wiped out. After that it would be deckchairs & popcorn time.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 26, 2017)

Old Spark said:


> Corbyns cabal said to have given up by Labour unhinged.
> 
> 
> More signs Corbyn’s cabal has abandoned Labour’s key seats and is focused on the next leadership contest «  Labour Uncut



What sort of timetable for selecting cabdidates would indicate that Corbyn hadn't given up on non-labour held seats? The time scales involved don't exactly provide a lot of wiggle room. The tories meanwhile haven't selected candidates either, have they given up too?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 26, 2017)

marty21 said:


> first time in about 30 years that I can't stay up all night to watch the coverage - maybe that's a blessing. I do have the next day off, as I'm driving down to Devon, so might even go to bed before the polls close and get up early doors to see the potentially grim result



I'm working with primary school kids at 9am on the 9th so a late night and the traditional bottle of election night scotch are out


----------



## killer b (Apr 26, 2017)

Watch out May, the progressives are coming. 

Spring the Party


----------



## chilango (Apr 26, 2017)

killer b said:


> Watch out May, the progressives are coming.
> 
> Spring the Party





I was literally only last night thinking _Spring_ would be a good name for a Party, even started thinking of logos as i walked home from the gym. Turns out I was wrong. Very wrong.


----------



## killer b (Apr 26, 2017)

There's a decent manchester socialist group called Spring already, I expect they're instructing m'learned friends as we speak.


----------



## killer b (Apr 26, 2017)

Actually, re-reading it, it looks like he's just announcing he was thinking of standing, but has decided not to. But here's what he would have done.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 26, 2017)

Even ignoring the prats politics his writing style makes me want to kick him.


----------



## killer b (Apr 26, 2017)

I didn't used to mind Maugham - he's done some useful and perceptive writing over the years. He's become pretty unhinged in the last year or so though. I think Brexit has caused some kind of collective breakdown among the liberal left commentariat.


----------



## campanula (Apr 26, 2017)

Jolyon!?

Predisposed to hate the twat already.


----------



## killer b (Apr 26, 2017)

it's a difficult name to love, although he claims to come from a working class background.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 26, 2017)

*Prime Minister Theresa May is thankful to everyone for focussing on Tim Farron’s attitude to homosexuals, and not her voting record on gay rights.*

After Lib Dem leader Farron confirmed that he doesn’t think gay sex is a sin, and pointed to a voting record in support of gay rights going back to his earliest time in parliament, the prime minister urged everyone not to look at her record.

“As the daughter of a vicar, my attitude to the gays is perfectly normal for someone of my age and background thank you very much,” she confirmed.

“Nobody needs to go looking into my voting record on issues around gay rights to determine whether I am a friend of the gays – that would be a waste of everyone’s time.

“Much better that everyone continues pretending that Tim Farron thinks all gays will burn in hell, than discuss the fact that I continued to vote against much of the gay rights legislation of the last twenty years.”

Voter Simon Williams said, “Yes, I know Tim Farron has consistently voted in support of gay rights his entire political career, but he follows a strange old book that says gays are sinful, so that’s the really important thing to focus on.

“And no, I don’t see it as a problem that the prime minister follows the same book and is refusing to be drawn on the subject, despite being a vicar’s daughter.

“I’m sure that in private she’s very supportive of gay rights, she probably just repeatedly voted against improving them because she didn’t understand the question.”


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 26, 2017)

"My body is ready".


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 26, 2017)

May says she wants to lead the world in preventing tourism

I believe she can do it.


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 26, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> May says she wants to lead the world in preventing tourism
> 
> I believe she can do it.




She should be an example to us all and stop at home!


----------



## bimble (Apr 26, 2017)




----------



## Spandex (Apr 26, 2017)

Fuck this fucking election. I'm fucking fucked off with the whole fucking thing.

Fuck Theresa May the fucking shitbag. She should be thrown down an abandoned well not the  fucking prime minister. Look at her fucking record - she's fucking useless, yet she says "strong" every other fucking word and suddenly she's a fucking cross between fucking Churchill and fucking Thatcher not the fucking national laughing stock she fucking should be.

And fuck the fucking Labour party for being infested with fucking right wing cuntbubbles and fuck Corbyn and his fucking useless bunch of fucking mediocre fucking gimps. His health spokesman was being interviewed on the news and he nasally mumbled that there's a perception that the government isn't managing the health service very well. What the fucking fuck? It's his big fucking chance to make his fucking mark and that's the best the worthless fucking tosspot can come up with? The fucking government are destroying the fucking health service. Everyfuckingbody is fucking furious. Labour should be tearing apart the fucking fucked up record of this fucking government - they can't keep a single fucking promise, social care is a national fucking disaster, education is fucked, housing is fucked, homeless people are strewn across every fucking town centre in the fucking country  but oh fucking no.  "There's a perception mumble mumble". Fucking dickhead.

And fuck the fucking media. Fuck the fucking Guardian for giving the fucking libfuckingshitcuntdems the time of fucking day. Fuck the right wing fucking press for pretending fucking May isn't a fucking waste of fucking space. And fuck, the fucking BBC are the fucking worst with their so called fucking balance. Cunts. They're all but fucking campaigning for the fucking tories. When Osbourne said he's standing down they ran a fucking hagiography of the snivelling fucking shit. The fucking excuse for a man should be tied between two planks and sawed in half for the fucking misery he wreaked on the country.

Six more fucking weeks of this fucking shit and at the end of it we're going to be stuck with a fucking huge fucking tory fucking majority and the fucking fucks will be able to do what the fuck they want. Fuck I'm fucking pissed off about the whole fucking thing.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 26, 2017)

Post of the year for me @Spandex


----------



## kebabking (Apr 26, 2017)

Spandex said:


> Fuck this fucking election. I'm fucking fucked off with the whole fucking thing.
> 
> Fuck Theresa May the fucking shitbag. She should be thrown down an abandoned well not the  fucking prime minister. Look at her fucking record - she's fucking useless, yet she says "strong" every other fucking word and suddenly she's a fucking cross between fucking Churchill and fucking Thatcher not the fucking national laughing stock she fucking should be.
> 
> ...



Something vexes thee my love?


----------



## chilango (Apr 26, 2017)

Tory leaflet waiting on the doormat when I got her me this evening


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 26, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Post of the year for me @Spandex



Seconded!


----------



## teqniq (Apr 26, 2017)

Spandex said:


> Fuck this fucking election. I'm fucking fucked off with the whole fucking thing.
> 
> Fuck Theresa May the fucking shitbag. She should be thrown down an abandoned well not the  fucking prime minister. Look at her fucking record - she's fucking useless, yet she says "strong" every other fucking word and suddenly she's a fucking cross between fucking Churchill and fucking Thatcher not the fucking national laughing stock she fucking should be.
> 
> ...


Well fucking said.


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 27, 2017)

The only decent thing I can think of about this election is that, by 2020, it will only be 2 more years until the next opportunity to get myself all excited at the prospect of a mild reformist being able to undo years of misery.

I hate Britain. I wish I could leave. Don't know where I'd go, but Tory society has done for me. I think I'd rather be a pregnant pauper in King's Landing found guilty of pissing on a picture of Joffrey than this society right now. Strong and Stable? My arse!


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 27, 2017)

Spandex said:


> Fuck this fucking election. I'm fucking fucked off with the whole fucking thing.
> 
> Fuck Theresa May the fucking shitbag. She should be thrown down an abandoned well not the  fucking prime minister. Look at her fucking record - she's fucking useless, yet she says "strong" every other fucking word and suddenly she's a fucking cross between fucking Churchill and fucking Thatcher not the fucking national laughing stock she fucking should be.
> 
> ...



Every domestic news report or article between now and polling day should be required to broadcast/print this before saying anything else.


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 27, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Don't know where I'd go,



If you really want to get out of the UK for a bit, then drop me a PM cos I just might have a suggestion.


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 27, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> If you really want to get out of the UK for a bit, then drop me a PM cos I just might have a suggestion.


I might just do that, but in posting hastily i remember i dont' own a passport! 

One can dream (at least until that's privatised and outsourced).


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 27, 2017)

Spandex said:


> Fuck this fucking election. I'm fucking fucked off with the whole fucking thing.
> 
> Fuck Theresa May the fucking shitbag. She should be thrown down an abandoned well not the  fucking prime minister. Look at her fucking record - she's fucking useless, yet she says "strong" every other fucking word and suddenly she's a fucking cross between fucking Churchill and fucking Thatcher not the fucking national laughing stock she fucking should be.
> 
> ...


 Epic.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 27, 2017)

John Cooper Clark would be proud of that


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 27, 2017)




----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 27, 2017)

Spandex said:


> Fuck this fucking election. I'm fucking fucked off with the whole fucking thing.
> 
> Fuck Theresa May the fucking shitbag. She should be thrown down an abandoned well not the  fucking prime minister. Look at her fucking record - she's fucking useless, yet she says "strong" every other fucking word and suddenly she's a fucking cross between fucking Churchill and fucking Thatcher not the fucking national laughing stock she fucking should be.
> 
> ...


Post of the year


----------



## Old Spark (Apr 27, 2017)

Progressive Alliance stirrings in Brighton.

In Brighton we’re working together to oust the Tories. Corbyn and Farron take heed | Caroline Lucas


----------



## bluescreen (Apr 27, 2017)

Old Spark said:


> Progressive Alliance stirrings in Brighton.
> 
> In Brighton we’re working together to oust the Tories. Corbyn and Farron take heed | Caroline Lucas


Greens aren't standing aside in Richmond Park, I hear, so Sarah Olney will hardly be a shoo-in against born-again-Tory Goldsmith.


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 27, 2017)




----------



## alsoknownas (Apr 27, 2017)

Spandex said:


> ..."There's a perception mumble mumble". Fucking dickhead...


----------



## Who PhD (Apr 27, 2017)

This is just painful. Tories want Mummy Ra here to be their leader. If she acts like this when dealing with the likes of the Saudis who want to buy guns and bombs off her, or that strepsil in a pubic wig, trump, to buy our NHS, she'll be laughed at before being ripped off. I can't believe people have fallen for this shit. I cannot believe how fucked up society is.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 27, 2017)

Strictly speaking the Locals, but everything's just getting melded into 1 big thing really...

Possibly my fave campaigning gimmick of the election season, so far...


----------



## bluescreen (Apr 27, 2017)

Ivor Cutler, ubi est?


----------



## bluescreen (Apr 27, 2017)

For those who don't know of him, Ivor Cutler was brilliant. More than a poet.





> Jazzshark has a great memory of Ivor: "...a funny story he once told me. apparently he used to get so pissed off with dog shit on the pavements in Camden that he went round for weeks and months drawing cartoons around the offending items in chalk. As a consequence of this the problem attracted huge publicity in local and national newspapers and Camden council changed its bylaws in order to fine offenders, and started a massive dog shit clean up campaign!"


Sax on the Road: Ivor Cutler - RIP


----------



## Smangus (Apr 27, 2017)

Spandex said:


> Fuck this fucking election. I'm fucking fucked off with the whole fucking thing.
> 
> Fuck Theresa May the fucking shitbag. She should be thrown down an abandoned well not the  fucking prime minister. Look at her fucking record - she's fucking useless, yet she says "strong" every other fucking word and suddenly she's a fucking cross between fucking Churchill and fucking Thatcher not the fucking national laughing stock she fucking should be.
> 
> ...




Fucking Marry me please


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 27, 2017)

Smangus said:


> Marry me please




That'll work well


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 27, 2017)

on tweeter today


----------



## teqniq (Apr 27, 2017)




----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 27, 2017)

Spandex said:


> Fuck this fucking election. I'm fucking fucked off with the whole fucking thing.


----------



## teqniq (Apr 27, 2017)




----------



## teqniq (Apr 28, 2017)




----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 28, 2017)




----------



## Who PhD (Apr 28, 2017)

teqniq said:


> View attachment 105506


Survivors is exactly right.


----------



## Libertad (Apr 28, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Strictly speaking the Locals, but everything's just getting melded into 1 big thing really...
> 
> Possibly my fave campaigning gimmick of the election season, so far...
> 
> View attachment 105496



Powerful metaphor there.


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 28, 2017)

> The piece was published on Friday in the News section of telegraph.co.uk but has since been taken down from the website.


Telegraph pulls article that claims Theresa May is ‘terrible Home Secretary’ – Press Gazette


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 28, 2017)

Haven't you got any older less relevant news?

Maybe an unexplained link to a scottish twitter account?


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 28, 2017)

Actually, the fact that it has disappeared is kinda getting talked about. Wassa matta? Frightened that she may actually fuck this up?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 28, 2017)

Astonishing political divination. Astounding work.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 28, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Actually, the fact that it has disappeared is kinda getting talked about.



_Still_? Where?


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 28, 2017)

Thanks.


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 28, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> _Still_? Where?



Here.


Btw, could you leet me know when the press get sick of decades old stories about Corbyn?


----------



## bimble (Apr 28, 2017)

Big ad in the Metro this morning from Unison. Did not say vote Labour but said something like the current government is killing the NHS, register to vote now if you care about its survival.


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 28, 2017)




----------



## billy_bob (Apr 28, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Here.
> 
> 
> Btw, could you leet me know when the press get sick of decades old stories about Corbyn?




That does appear to be just an old screenshot that someone on Twitter's attached to a post recently, not under current discussion in any significant way.

I'm still a hopeless luddite when it comes to Twitter, mind, so I'm prepared to accept I might be missing something.

The press keeps recycling old shit, sure, but we should rise above it in this exalted discussion space


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 28, 2017)




----------



## Old Spark (Apr 28, 2017)

Senior Tories cancelled campaigning today -manifesto writing or crap gdp figures?

Nah jap pm -it is clear we have buried the long term economic plan at the bottom of the rose garden


----------



## mikey mikey (Apr 29, 2017)




----------



## teqniq (Apr 30, 2017)

Now this I like very much. Whether it plays well with the majority of the electorate is another matter.

Labour will immediately ban all weapons sales to repressive countries if it wins the election


----------



## andysays (Apr 30, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Now this I like very much. Whether it plays well with the majority of the electorate is another matter.
> 
> Labour will immediately ban all weapons sales to repressive countries if it wins the election


seems like an all-too-common case of headline not matching story content


> Asked whether action on arms sales to repressive regimes would be tackled in Labour’s manifesto, Mr Gardiner said he could not discuss details ahead of its official publication, but went on: “Our party has always pledged to embed human rights and social justice into our trade policy.



Always pledged but rarely if ever delivered, some might say


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 30, 2017)

Bullshit? or something in this? Dont know how realiable skawkbox is. 

Theresa May ‘under investigation re Brexit profits’


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 1, 2017)

Hmmmm...May is a cautious drone - i cannot see she would allow herself to be compromised by some seedy easy cash scam


----------



## Raheem (May 1, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Bullshit? or something in this? Dont know how realiable skawkbox is.
> 
> Theresa May ‘under investigation re Brexit profits’



Too good to be true, probably.

In any case, she could probably join ISIS right now and still walk the election with a 1000% national swing.


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Bullshit? or something in this? Dont know how realiable skawkbox is.
> 
> Theresa May ‘under investigation re Brexit profits’


"_..from multiple sources..."
_
Hmmm


----------



## Dom Traynor (May 1, 2017)

I really don't trust that skwarkbox no references no sources a secret identity etc etc


----------



## Pickman's model (May 1, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> Hmmmm...May is a cautious drone - i cannot see she would allow herself to be compromised by some seedy easy cash scam


Not at this point anyway when we haven't quite reached peak hubris


----------



## CrabbedOne (May 1, 2017)

On Politico Why UKIP’s collapse matters


> ...
> First, there is clear evidence that lots of UKIP voters are switching over to the Conservatives. Of those who voted UKIP in 2015, 58 percent said they will vote for the party again at the next election while 42 percent said they would switch to another party or did not know how they would vote.
> 
> Of those who plan to abandon UKIP for another party, around 73 percent are switching to the Conservatives and just 14 percent to Labour.
> ...


Note hardly any UKIP swing voters not going to May's Tories who are basically promising unfettered globalisation++ and a patriotic neo-Imperial revival outside the EU. I suspect it's the optimistic jingoism of the latter that appeals but so much for the great English revolt against the neoliberal establishment. If these polls are right that puts 30+ Labour seats in play for May. 

Rather shocking really having only won one seat last time and then because of a defection despite mobilising lots of outraged voters the next GE was finally meant to be UKIP's turn in the North at Labour's expense. The couple of lively Kippers I know were really confident that tomorrow belonged to them and that was plausible enough a year ago. What a difference a Brexit makes.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 1, 2017)

CrabbedOne said:


> but so much for the great English revolt against the neoliberal establishment


smug caricature of a position no one held. in any case this is the worst thing about brexit:
Tony Blair announces return in bid to influence Brexit debate

IT LIVES!!


----------



## belboid (May 1, 2017)

Who would have thought a collapsing ukip vote would benefit the Tories most? 

Oh yes, that's right, everybody. What an utterly pointless article.


----------



## CrabbedOne (May 1, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Now this I like very much. Whether it plays well with the majority of the electorate is another matter.
> 
> Labour will immediately ban all weapons sales to repressive countries if it wins the election


Well very moral but repressive countries currently make up a big slice of the UK's customers: the KSA, China etc. Perhaps a third of exports and it's a trade that generate 3%+ of GDP. One of the manufacturing areas not liable to be flattened by cheap RoW imports after Brexit. 

It will be a very popular policy with workers manufacturing weapons but unfortunately they won't be the ~10% of the British manufacturing workforce that involves but folk in countries like France and the US. I don't think Labour are seriously contemplating ever having to make making good on this pledge.


----------



## belboid (May 1, 2017)

CrabbedOne said:


> Well very moral but repressive countries currently make up a big slice of the UK's customers: the KSA, China etc. Perhaps a third of exports and it's a trade that generate 3%+ of GDP. One of the manufacturing areas not liable to be flattened by cheap RoW imports after Brexit.
> 
> It will be a very popular policy with workers manufacturing weapons but unfortunately they won't be the ~10% of the British manufacturing workforce that involves but folk in countries like France and the US. I don't think Labour are seriously contemplating ever having to make making good on this pledge.


I understand why you usually only post links now. This is incoherent gibberish.


----------



## teqniq (May 1, 2017)

Have you been on the pop or something? The first part of your post is stating the obvious, the second I am having difficulty parsing.


----------



## Who PhD (May 1, 2017)

I can't believe how bad Theresa May comes across (which is to say, is).

Do you think after they win they'll have her out?


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 1, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I can't believe how bad Theresa May comes across (which is to say, is).
> 
> Do you think after they win they'll have her out?



They don't have anyone less incompetent to replace her with. Gove is one of the only ones who can even string a sentence together but he's a weird, mad little fucker who nobody likes.


----------



## Poi E (May 1, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I can't believe how bad Theresa May comes across (which is to say, is).
> 
> Do you think after they win they'll have her out?



Yes.


----------



## bi0boy (May 1, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I can't believe how bad Theresa May comes across (which is to say, is).
> 
> Do you think after they win they'll have her out?



She doesn't have to come across well, she only has to come across better than Corbyn to people who might vote Tory. Anything else is a risk.

I'm pretty sure she'll hand over the reigns before she's pushed.


----------



## Kesher (May 1, 2017)

Radio 4  replayed this part of an  interview with May


Radio Derby to PM: _"Do you know what a mugwump is?"_

PM: _"What I recognise is that what we need in this country is strong and stable leadership"_


----------



## Corax (May 1, 2017)

Anyone else automatically read this in the voice of Emperor Palpatine?


----------



## mojo pixy (May 1, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> They don't have anyone less incompetent to replace her with. Gove is one of the only ones who can even string a sentence together but he's a weird, mad little fucker who nobody likes.



He didn't go to public school, that would explain why his party don't like him. 
Ironically the one thing about him that most people _do _like...


----------



## Raheem (May 1, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> He didn't go to public school, that would explain why his party don't like him.
> Ironically the one thing about him that most people _do _like...



He did go to public school, according to Wikipedia at least.


----------



## free spirit (May 2, 2017)

this negotiating for parties to stand aside to attempt to beat the tories thing seems to be harder to make happen than it looks even when all sides want it to happen.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 2, 2017)

Do all sides want it to happen? 

Have you offered to stand down your candidate?


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 2, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Bullshit? or something in this? Dont know how realiable skawkbox is.
> 
> Theresa May ‘under investigation re Brexit profits’





> Sources say the Cabinet Office Propriety and Ethics Team have launched an inquiry into whether there is a conflict of interest between Theresa May and her husband, Philip, over his job at the Capital Group, which makes millions of pounds in market sensitive information,including from Brexit.


 Exclusive:Cabinet Office responds to  allegations of  Prime Minister's Brexit " conflict of interest " 

Not sure about skwalkbox either, but David Hencke is now running with this for what that's worth.


----------



## kebabking (May 2, 2017)

free spirit said:


> this negotiating for parties to stand aside to attempt to beat the tories thing seems to be harder to make happen than it looks even when all sides want it to happen.



All sides_ don't_ want 'it' to happen, all sides just want other parties to stand aside for them.

The template is familiar - it's a re-run of the Labour party a coalition offer to the LibDems in 2010: Gordon Brown gives Nick Clegg a copy of the Labour manifesto and says 'sign up for that and you can come into government' - it's a complete failure on all sides to understand that, remarkably enough, different political parties have very different views, and that infact 'not being the Tories' is not the only thing they exist for.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 2, 2017)

Plus they all want and need to be seen as _national _parties, which necessitates standing candidates in every seat regardless of whether they are winnable or not.


----------



## stethoscope (May 2, 2017)

free spirit said:


> this negotiating for parties to stand aside to attempt to beat the tories thing seems to be harder to make happen than it looks even when all sides want it to happen.



Not this 'rainbow alliance', 'progressive coalition' again. How did that go in 2010 again? Are you voting Green or Lib Dem this time?


----------



## JTG (May 2, 2017)

Green candidate stands down in marginal Ilford North and calls on Lib Dems to do the same

2015:
Wes Streeting (L) 21,463 43.9 +9.6
Lee Scott (C) 20,874 42.7 −3.1
Philip Hyde (UKIP) 4,355 8.9 +7.0
Richard Clare (LD) 1,130 2.3 −10.4
David Reynolds (G) 1,023 2.1 +0.9
Doris Osen (Ind) 87 0.2 _N/A_

Ilford North includes Barkingside and Hainault. Swing seat that goes mostly the Tories' way - Tory 1954-74 and again 1978-97. Went back to the Tories in 2005 and regained by Labour last time out on the back of the Lib Dem collapse. Large Jewish vote there - Streeting has been a critic of Corbyn especially over anti-semitism


----------



## stethoscope (May 2, 2017)

Are the Lib Dems standing down too? What happens if the Green vote simply transfers to Lib Dems? Some of the UKIP vote transfers to Tory? And Labour stay where they are?

Although it comes from a place of trying to oust the Tories, it's shit liberal politics in the end. To effectively overturn the Tories, we've got to get beyond three 'least worst' neoliberal parties.


----------



## bi0boy (May 2, 2017)

If there's no Lib candidate the 5,000 Lib voters who tactically went for Milliband in 2015 will probably vote Tory


----------



## Idris2002 (May 2, 2017)

Corax said:


> Anyone else automatically read this in the voice of Emperor Palpatine?


'And then I'll say to Austria - "form an alliance with the Crown. . . not the king. . . just . . . the Crown". They may mock me now, but when the history of this past era is written they will mark my name well'.


----------



## JTG (May 2, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Are the Lib Dems standing down too? What happens if the Green vote simply transfers to Lib Dems? Some of the UKIP vote transfers to Tory? And Labour stay where they are?
> 
> Although it comes from a place of trying to oust the Tories, it's shit liberal politics in the end. To effectively overturn the Tories, we've got to get beyond three 'least worst' neoliberal parties.


Dunno and tend to agree. Just sticking it in for info really


----------



## Pickman's model (May 2, 2017)

free spirit said:


> this negotiating for parties to stand aside to attempt to beat the tories thing seems to be harder to make happen than it looks even when all sides want it to happen.


Yeh? Where have the tories said "Yeh go ahead, bring it on" or similar?


----------



## billy_bob (May 2, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Although it comes from a place of trying to oust the Tories, it's shit liberal politics in the end. To effectively overturn the Tories, we've got to get beyond three 'least worst' neoliberal parties.



Agree. There's no doubt the 'anything but the Tories' motive is a strong one if you grew up or came of age under Thatcher, and as a pragmatist part of me's tempted by the feeling that even 'marginally less evil' is better than nothing. If you're being stamped on with hob-nailed boots you might be at least slightly relieved if the stamper offered to wear trainers instead. But as I get older and take a longer view it looks like false mitigation - a little respite now but saving up a whole load more shit for later. A big part of 1997 was 'anything but the Tories' and look where that got us.


----------



## twentythreedom (May 2, 2017)

Oh dear 

Diane Abbott's Agonising Interview Over Police Policy Cost - LBC


----------



## kebabking (May 2, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> Oh dear
> 
> Diane Abbott's Agonising Interview Over Police Policy Cost - LBC



we really do need that GE comedy thread.

i think she's on the Daily Politics today, so we'll see if she does better - or if she develops a migrane #prayfordiane...


----------



## chilango (May 2, 2017)

I voted Green last time, I'm likely to vote Green this time. BUT there is no way in hell that if the Green stood aside I'd vote Lib Dem. None at all. I bet I'm not the only one. 

Equally, should this "progressive alliance" start to gather pace and the Greens stand aside for Lib Dems (and vice versa) elsewhere, then that's enough to lose the Greens my vote.

It's arrogant, insulting nonsense, and isn't going down well with anyone I've spoken to.


----------



## mojo pixy (May 2, 2017)

Raheem said:


> He did go to public school, according to Wikipedia at least.



Which public school did he go to?
I've only ever heard that he went to ''private'' school (which isn't necessarily the same)


----------



## red & green (May 2, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> Oh dear
> 
> Diane Abbott's Agonising Interview Over Police Policy Cost - LBC



Nice diversion for the media from the junker meeting leak


----------



## belboid (May 2, 2017)

mojo pixy said:


> Which public school did he go to?
> I've only ever heard that he went to ''private'' school (which isn't necessarily the same)


He went to a state school then got a scholarship to Robert Gordon College


----------



## billy_bob (May 2, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> Oh dear
> 
> Diane Abbott's Agonising Interview Over Police Policy Cost - LBC



Abbott is always about as good as a 9-year-old at brazening out something she obviously doesn't know.


----------



## billy_bob (May 2, 2017)

belboid said:


> He went to a state school then got a scholarship to Robert Gordon College



The worst kind: he managed to escape, and that's why he's better than us.


----------



## bi0boy (May 2, 2017)

red & green said:


> Nice diversion for the media from the junker meeting leak



Why would they need a diversion from that? There's plenty for them to get their teeth into e.g. Revealed: How EU has been secretly plotting to block Theresa May over EU migrants for weeks


----------



## Raheem (May 2, 2017)

belboid said:


> He went to a state school then got a scholarship to Robert Gordon College



It's a good thing they have these scholarships, or else what would become of the children of mere factory owners?


----------



## mojo pixy (May 2, 2017)

Anyway that's why the toffs in the Tory party don't like him.


----------



## bi0boy (May 2, 2017)

twentythreedom said:


> Oh dear
> 
> Diane Abbott's Agonising Interview Over Police Policy Cost - LBC



Do they have anyone left who can do a live radio or TV interview?


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 2, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Abbott is always about as good as a 9-year-old at brazening out something she obviously doesn't know.




I've known some very clever 9 year olds though.


----------



## Wilf (May 2, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Do they have anyone who can do a live radio or TV interview left?


That was every bit as bad the Natalie Bennett interview. Don't know whether it represents Abbot herself fucking up/not being prepared, or whether the party itself hasn't got 'robust' numbers for the police proposals?  Ominshables.


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 2, 2017)

I can't be arsed doing a new thread but the institute for government have released a report on what exactly Ministers do.


https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Ministers_Reflect_WEB.pdf


----------



## Wilf (May 2, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Do they have anyone who can do a live radio or TV interview left?


Maybe they should get Eric Joyce back. Twatting Nick Ferrari works for me.


----------



## Rob Ray (May 2, 2017)

I don't feel like this is "going" down the pan material, but it's a pretty impressive display of the "we know we can't urge our readers to vote Tory or Lib Dem because we're supposed to be the left paper, but we just hate Labour so much we can't stop front-paging negative stuff about them" thing they've had going on since May announced the election.


----------



## Mr Moose (May 2, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Why would they need a diversion from that? There's plenty for them to get their teeth into e.g. Revealed: How EU has been secretly plotting to block Theresa May over EU migrants for weeks



Hardly surprising it would be 'secret'. I thought the Tory rags applauded May for keeping her cards close to her chest. If the EU does then that's just tricky shit according to the papers.

What are the UK's proposed guarantees to EU citizens? Are they the same as the rights they have now or just to reside as current non EU nationals do? This is more the sticking point than just tactics.


----------



## Who PhD (May 2, 2017)

Corax said:


> Anyone else automatically read this in the voice of Emperor Palpatine?


I don't know what's real anymore!

This is madness


----------



## JTG (May 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> I voted Green last time, I'm likely to vote Green this time. BUT there is no way in hell that if the Green stood aside I'd vote Lib Dem. None at all. I bet I'm not the only one.
> 
> Equally, should this "progressive alliance" start to gather pace and the Greens stand aside for Lib Dems (and vice versa) elsewhere, then that's enough to lose the Greens my vote.
> 
> It's arrogant, insulting nonsense, and isn't going down well with anyone I've spoken to.


Already happened in Brighton Kemptown hasn't it? Which I thought was a Labour target and the GP standing aside there far more likely to benefit Labour anyway surely


----------



## chilango (May 2, 2017)

JTG said:


> Already happened in Brighton Kemptown hasn't it? Which I thought was a Labour target and the GP standing aside there far more likely to benefit Labour anyway surely



I think its happening in a few places, but seems a bit haphazard at present.

Which isn't any better.

Meh. Not really any skin off my nose. Daft on their part though.


----------



## belboid (May 2, 2017)

Wilf said:


> That was every bit as bad the Natalie Bennett interview. Don't know whether it represents Abbot herself fucking up/not being prepared, or whether the party itself hasn't got 'robust' numbers for the police proposals?  Ominshables.


She just got muddled. She said thousand when she meant million, and then gave the annual amount instead of the amount over four years (which is what is budgeted for). Either is easily done and should be easily corrected. But she got flustered and totally screwed it up.


----------



## billy_bob (May 2, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> I've known some very clever 9 year olds though.



Oh, mine's a clever one. I think they're the ones that politicians most resemble: they know just enough to think they know it all, and they assume they're so great that they'll just be able to bluster through anything they blatantly don't know, apparently unaware of how laughable they appear.


----------



## PursuedByBears (May 2, 2017)

Corax said:


> Anyone else automatically read this in the voice of Emperor Palpatine?


No, I got Davros instead.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 2, 2017)




----------



## not-bono-ever (May 2, 2017)

jesus christ


----------



## Spymaster (May 2, 2017)

belboid said:


> She just got muddled. She said thousand when she meant million, and then gave the annual amount instead of the amount over four years (which is what is budgeted for). Either is easily done and should be easily corrected.


You'd expect better from the SHS who must have been expecting to be questioned on the figures. You could hear her rustling through her briefing papers. What hasn't helped is every LBC show since the fuck up on Nick Ferrari this morning has been replaying it, almost on a loop.


----------



## Corax (May 2, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> You'd expect better from the SHS who must have been expecting to be questioned on the figures. You could hear her rustling through her briefing papers. What hasn't helped is every LBC show since the fuck up on Nick Ferrari this morning has been replaying it, almost on a loop.


When I hear about DA acting in her capacity as a local MP I often come away with a positive impression. Whenever she's acting in a national role I find myself holding my breath in fearful anticipation.


----------



## phillm (May 2, 2017)

Fuck me we really are fucking fucked aren't we ? If this is heading for a landslide.


----------



## bluescreen (May 2, 2017)

Thing about that picture ^^ is she can't do a thing about her drink and chips unless someone helps her.


----------



## phillm (May 2, 2017)

bluescreen said:


> Thing about that picture ^^ is she can't do a thing about her drink and chips unless someone helps her.



But the mouth was her own.....


----------



## bluescreen (May 2, 2017)

phillm said:


> But the mouth was her own.....


It hadn't occurred to me that her expression was because she realised her predicament. I thought she wondered what the chips were, or what was on them.


----------



## phillm (May 2, 2017)

Those were the days ...you would have thought Lynton Cuntsby would have briefed her to the Pepsi Max about food


----------



## Corax (May 2, 2017)

bluescreen said:


> Thing about that picture ^^ is she can't do a thing about her drink and chips unless someone helps her.


Someone should come up with some sort of raised horizontal surface on legs that people can put cups on.  A device like that would revolutionise the way we approach this awful conundrum.


----------



## phillm (May 2, 2017)

Corax said:


> Someone should come up with some sort of raised horizontal surface on legs that people can put cups on.  A device like that would revolutionise the way we approach this awful conundrum.



Any Tory worth their salt would surely have servants - Alan Clarke wouldn't have her back to his place in any capacity. Fookin grammar school kids - no class unlike the Eton toffs.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 2, 2017)

Whatever the excuses, Diane Abbot is fucking useless


----------



## Corax (May 2, 2017)

phillm said:


> Any Tory worth their salt would surely have servants - Alan Clarke wouldn't have her back to his place in any capacity. Fookin grammar school kids - no class unlike the Eton toffs.


Best of both worlds:


----------



## phillm (May 2, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Whatever the excuses, Diane Abbot is fucking useless



A damning food picture emerges...


----------



## Idris2002 (May 2, 2017)

Is May having a stroke in that pic?


----------



## teqniq (May 3, 2017)




----------



## Wilf (May 4, 2017)

Anybody else think May might come an electoral cropper with this shouty approach to the negotiations?  Not as in she'll lose, but as in Labour get to keep a few seats they would have otherwise lost.  It's not really about the positions she's taking, more that she's looking a bit out of her depth - playing to the gallery works to some extent, but a couple of weeks of the euromachine leaking against her won't look good.  Admittedly, this is a minor issue, we're talking about something that might just be the difference between extremely bad and disastrous for Labour.  But still, she's beginning to look a bit of a div.


----------



## Raheem (May 4, 2017)

Corax said:


> Best of both worlds:



I don't object in principle to people stuffing their faces. It's just when they do it off the backs of the workers.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 4, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Anybody else think May might come an electoral cropper with this shouty approach to the negotiations?  Not as in she'll lose, but as in Labour get to keep a few seats they would have otherwise lost.  It's not really about the positions she's taking, more that she's looking a bit out of her depth - playing to the gallery works to some extent, but a couple of weeks of the euromachine leaking against her won't look good.  Admittedly, this is a minor issue, we're talking about something that might just be the difference between extremely bad and disastrous for Labour.  But still, she's beginning to look a bit of a div.


I think it could attract some ABT voters back to Labour, from either abstaining or voting minor party.


----------



## extra dry (May 4, 2017)

Labour names 21-year-old Luke Charters-Reid as York candidate

Is York a safe labour seat?


----------



## killer b (May 4, 2017)

It says in the article he is taking on a Tory Incumbent. So no.


----------



## Wilf (May 4, 2017)

killer b said:


> It says in the article he is taking on a Tory Incumbent. So no.


From memory it's a see-saw Con-Lab marginal. In fact at some election over the last 20 years it was held by Labour with the smallest majority in the country.


----------



## killer b (May 4, 2017)

it's York Outer - only seems to have existed since 2010, but Labour have never been in the running. 

York Outer (UK Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia


----------



## Wilf (May 4, 2017)

killer b said:


> it's York Outer - only seems to have existed since 2010, but Labour have never been in the running.
> 
> York Outer (UK Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia


Aye, just about to post that.  Looks to have been reorganised.

edit: wiki - After the 2005 general election the parliamentary representation in North Yorkshire was reviewed by the Boundary Commission for England, which recommended the division of the former City of York constituency before the 2010 general election leading to two constituencies within the borders of the city of York - *York Central* is entirely surrounded by York Outer.


----------



## Wilf (May 4, 2017)

Nerdpoint clarification: it was the old City of York seat that had a number of extremely close contests, going back to the 60s and beyond:
City of York (UK Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 4, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> I can't be arsed doing a new thread but the institute for government have released a report on what exactly Ministers do.
> 
> 
> https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/sites/default/files/publications/Ministers_Reflect_WEB.pdf


That's hilarious. Shows just how clueless many Ministers are.

_"I literally didn’t have a clue. I didn’t even know what a submission was. Literally nothing."_
Lynne Featherstone

_ “ …sometimes I would write ‘yes’ on a bit of paper and things would happen, which was a bit of a revelation." _
Steve Webb

_"And how do you know if you ever succeeded? I think is a good question. The answer is you don’t and it’s a long haul." _
Lord (Stephen) Green


----------



## Who PhD (May 4, 2017)

If only 'Sir' Steve Webb had written a different word on the piece of paper entitled 'should the LibDems support and co-create the Bedroom Tax'?


----------



## Wilf (May 4, 2017)

Eurobods having their fun with Theresa:
EU chief Donald Tusk: May needs to show moderation and respect
They know their interventions are going to have as little impact on either the UK election or the brexit outcomes as May's own outbursts. But its got to be a lark for these buttoned down fellers to have a few lolz and abandon their neutral, measured, grey suited, wibbly wobbly ways. 

Next: Jaques Delors: 'you can have access to the single market, but only if you put mayonnaise on yer chips Tresa.'


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 4, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Eurobods having their fun with Theresa:
> EU chief Donald Tusk: May needs to show moderation and respect
> They know their interventions are going to have as little impact on either the UK election or the brexit outcomes as May's own outbursts. But its got to be a lark for these buttoned down fellers to have a few lolz and abandon their neutral, measured, grey suited, wibbly wobbly ways.
> 
> Next: Jaques Delors: 'you can have access to the single market, but only if you put mayonnaise on yer chips Tresa.'




This is basically them backing May for PM. They have to know chatting shit makes a Stern. Firm. PM. In. Control. more likely not less.


----------



## ferrelhadley (May 4, 2017)

Given the age and alcohol consumption of their core demographic Id imagine its been a while since many of them had their hands on a good election.


----------



## Wilf (May 4, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> This is basically them backing May for PM. They have to know chatting shit makes a Stern. Firm. PM. In. Control. more likely not less.


I suspect they realise they can't deliver some kind of Corbyn-Farron-Sturgeon government - they have contempt for May, Davies et al - so this is really chatting shit to chat shit. When they get back round the table after the election, they say 'right, you've had your pointless theatrics, let's get back to it, nothing has changed'.  It's the elite's version of mumbling 'wanker' at each other.


----------



## bi0boy (May 4, 2017)

ferrelhadley said:


> Given the age and alcohol consumption of their core demographic Id imagine its been a while since many of them had their hands on a good election.




Botox has clearly been left well alone by the person on their front cover.


----------



## Wilf (May 4, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I suspect they realise they can't deliver some kind of Corbyn-Farron-Sturgeon government - they have contempt for May, Davies et al - so this is really chatting shit to chat shit. When they get back round the table after the election, they say 'right, you've had your pointless theatrics, let's get back to it, nothing has changed'.  It's the elite's version of mumbling 'wanker' at each other.


... and when May starts moaning about the tens of millions we will have to pay the EU, auld Tusky or similar is going to point out that we've just spunked £30,000,000 on a pointless election.


----------



## bluescreen (May 4, 2017)

Wilf said:


> ... and when May starts moaning about the tens of millions billions we will have to pay the EU, auld Tusky or similar is going to point out that we've just spunked £30,000,000 on a pointless election.


 nope


----------



## Wilf (May 4, 2017)

bluescreen said:


> nope


Ooops, was going to type '90 billion', the much quoted figure, but couldn't be arsed checking it. Somehow ended up mistyping.


----------



## bluescreen (May 4, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Ooops, was going to type '90 billion', the much quoted figure, but couldn't be arsed checking it. Somehow ended up mistyping.


That's OK. If a number muddle is good enough for the Shadow Home Secretary....


----------



## teqniq (May 4, 2017)

Labour eyes proportional representation as party's elections minister backs voting shake-up


----------



## Wilf (May 4, 2017)

bluescreen said:


> That's OK. If a number muddle is good enough for the Shadow Home Secretary....


To be honest, since I posted that she's put some feelers out about me joining her team. She can recognise talent.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 5, 2017)

Is this what the young people call "squad goals"?


----------



## chilango (May 5, 2017)

Idle thought: Would Varafoukis make a good Labour leader?


----------



## Idris2002 (May 5, 2017)

chilango said:


> Idle thought: Would Varafoukis make a good Labour leader?


Only if he could sit in a secret underground lair, with a white cat, and a team of erotic assassins.


----------



## bi0boy (May 5, 2017)

chilango said:


> Idle thought: Would Varafoukis make a good Labour leader?



If Labour continue with their aim of not needing to win parliamentary elections, then sure.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 5, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> If Labour continue with their aim of not needing to win parliamentary elections, then sure.


They should really go back to the great winning streak they had under Ed "Wee Ed" Miliband.


----------



## bi0boy (May 5, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> They should really go back to the great winning streak they had under Ed "Wee Ed" Miliband.



or to the drawing board.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 5, 2017)

They should get Tony back in. Good ol' Tony. Or Dan.Or Kier. T'sall the same. mmm, Tony.


----------



## bi0boy (May 5, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> They should get Tony back in. Good ol' Tony. Or Dan.Or Kier. T'sall the same. mmm, Tony.



If they can't think of a better way than Tony Blair to win an election maybe they should just give up.


----------



## kebabking (May 5, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> They should really go back to the great winning streak they had under Ed "Wee Ed" Miliband.


 
Tbh - and I'm one who thinks that the term 'shy Labour voter' is about to become part of the political lexicon - Labour in the 2015-2017 parliament is about to become a beacon of hope for the party, and a golden age that grizzled old campaigners hark back to when boring the pants off younger members.

'_you should have seen it, magnificent it was - if you can believe it almost a third of the commons was Labour, we even managed to block laws in them days - I know there's stories told of a time when there was a Labour government, but I don't hold with that rubbish: keep your feet on the ground lad and, perhaps in your lifetime, we can get to 150 seats...'_


----------



## mikey mikey (May 5, 2017)

What we need is to get tough on immigrants, tough on welfare, increase tuition fees, slowly privatise the NHS, cut corporation tax, cut tax for the top earners, privatise schools, spy on everybody and sell arms to Saudi Arabia while buying nuclear weapons that we don't even control.

That would be both strong and stable: and if the tories accuse Labour of stealing their policies, just day that we'll do it tougher and more patriotically.

We can't lose if we just become the Tories.


----------



## butchersapron (May 5, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> They should get Tony back in. Good ol' Tony. Or Dan.Or Kier. T'sall the same. mmm, Tony.





mikey mikey said:


> What we need is to get tough on immigrants, tough on welfare, increase tuition fees, slowly privatise the NHS, cut corporation tax, cut tax for the top earners, privatise schools, spy on everybody and sell arms to Saudi Arabia while buying nuclear weapons that we don't even control.
> 
> That would be both strong and stable: and if the tories accuse Labour of stealing their policies, just day that we'll do it tougher and more patriotically.
> 
> We can't lose if we just become the Tories.


Do you read anyone else's posts on here? 

Who on earth do you think that you're parodying. 

What is the point of this stuff?


----------



## chilango (May 5, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Do you read anyone else's posts on here?
> 
> Who on earth do you think that you're parodying.
> 
> What is the point of this stuff?



It's a good illustration of a Labour Party mindset though.


----------



## butchersapron (May 5, 2017)

chilango said:


> It's a good illustration of a Labour Party mindset though.


Mikey's parody of what he bizarrely thinks everyone else here believes or mikey's actual content/posts (the few you can find anyway)? Both are pretty embarrassing.

If the latter i don't think many people in the party have that paranoid inexperienced/jaded mindset - i think the roots don't go very deep and have probably only taken hold among some of the newer members. If the former, i think it's just as far from the membership's mindset. Accurate for some factions of the leadership/leadership in waiting though.


----------



## chilango (May 5, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Accurate for some factions of the leadership/leadership in waiting though.



Yeah. And local wannabes.


----------



## butchersapron (May 5, 2017)

chilango said:


> Yeah. And local wannabes.


I'd also add that the line of travel of both groups if they became dominant is the same - the death of the labour party on both pre and post 97 basis.


----------



## killer b (May 5, 2017)

I don't know any Labour people with anything close to either mindset. I think people pick up on the bullshit they read on twitter and assume it's representative when it's just a few loudmouth nutters.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 5, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Mikey's parody of what he bizarrely thinks everyone else here believes



Nope. Just taking the piss out of Labour moderates. Fuck all to do with what I think people here believe. Or what you think I think thatt other people believe. So just fuck off. K?


----------



## chilango (May 5, 2017)

killer b said:


> I don't know any Labour people with anything close to either mindset. I think people pick up on the bullshit they read on twitter and assume it's representative when it's just a few loudmouth nutters.



Dunno. Some local Labour people around me aren't too far off it.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 5, 2017)

"Party of the workers"



Condescending prick.


----------



## billy_bob (May 6, 2017)

Brixton Hatter said:


> "Party of the workers"
> 
> 
> 
> Condescending prick.




Very telling hand position. Literally (and figuratively) avoiding soiling her own by placing them, open, where rough types in hi-vis have had their greasy great paws.


----------



## brogdale (May 6, 2017)




----------



## krink (May 7, 2017)

had this passed to me today. a well thought out picture from labour in sunderland. what could possibly go wrong?

it's actually them off to pay the mp's deposit but posted with almost no context and people who genuinely and helpfully pointed this out (not me, snoopers) were rounded on. great stuff Labour! anyone fancy doing some photoshop so i can post them elsewhere?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2017)




----------



## krink (May 7, 2017)




----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2017)

Brixton Hatter said:


> "Party of the workers"
> 
> 
> 
> Condescending prick.




Fella in hi-vis is thinking "a swift punch to the throat and she's dead.  Wonder if I can pull it off before her copper plugs me?".


----------



## Idris2002 (May 7, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Fella in hi-vis is thinking "a swift punch to the throat and she's dead.  Wonder if I can pull it off before her copper plugs me?".


Ah, if only it were that simple.

Re: the continuing death of parliamentary socialism. I saw a comment about UKIP on chitter the other day, the gist of which was that everyone used to knock them for not having any Westminster seats, but it turned out they didn't need them.


----------



## bimble (May 7, 2017)

Jonathan Pie rips apart 'strong and stable'


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2017)

bimble said:


> Jonathan Pie rips apart 'strong and stable'


are you just c&p-ing headlines from the canary now?


----------



## bimble (May 7, 2017)

eh? Is this thread only for very serious observations about the campaign or something?


----------



## killer b (May 7, 2017)

no, it was just your _XX rips apart YY _formation is reminiscent of some shitehouse clickbait headline.


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2017)

Is this the weirdest general election ever? - video


Any one posted this yet?

 'The Tin Man' is wise

3.59 mins in.


----------



## bimble (May 7, 2017)

killer b said:


> no, it was just your _XX rips apart YY _formation is reminiscent of some shitehouse clickbait headline.


yeah that was a but shit soz


----------



## treelover (May 7, 2017)

'The Tin Man' speaks.

Going viral.


----------



## killer b (May 8, 2017)

The BBC have announced a head-to-head QT special with Corbo and May.

Looks like his strategy of refusing to do the ITV debate without May was pretty sound then...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> The BBC have announced a head-to-head QT special with Corbo and May.
> 
> Looks like his strategy of refusing to do the ITV debate without May was pretty sound then...


we'll see how stacked the audience questioners are eh. 

maybe I'm being overly cynical and they'll go for a 50/50 audience.


----------



## chilango (May 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> The BBC have announced a head-to-head QT special with Corbo and May.
> 
> Looks like his strategy of refusing to do the ITV debate without May was pretty sound then...



Just those two? If that was the intention (sideline the LibDems, Greens etc. TINA) then well played.


----------



## killer b (May 8, 2017)

that's what they're saying ATM


----------



## killer b (May 8, 2017)

actually, there's more: a head to head, a head to head between farron & sturgeon (?) and a 7-way.

Party leaders to take part in BBC election programmes - BBC News


----------



## butchersapron (May 8, 2017)

Strugeon and Farron? Might watch that.


----------



## chilango (May 8, 2017)

just looks like a snub to ITV right now then....


----------



## bi0boy (May 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> actually, there's more: a head to head, a head to head between farron & sturgeon (?) and a 7-way.
> 
> Party leaders to take part in BBC election programmes - BBC News



Not a head-to-head but a back-to-back: "leaders will face audience questions consecutively."


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2017)

may and hubby on the One Show is a must watch. It'll be cringe central


----------



## chilango (May 9, 2017)

Précis of the discussions in the pub last night.

Don't know who to vote for.
Can't vote Tory.
Corbyn is a twat.
Labour won't win.
Never voting Lib Dem again.
Don't know who to vote for.


----------



## teqniq (May 9, 2017)

Labour Party expels members for supporting doctor trying to oust Hunt


----------



## Wilf (May 9, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Labour Party expels members for supporting doctor trying to oust Hunt


Pretty standard practice under the 'supporting another candidate' rule.  However that formalism stands against the fact they never actually got round to sacking Danczuk, or a certain ex-prime minister who killed hundreds of thousands.


----------



## teqniq (May 9, 2017)

Fucking bizzarre


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 9, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Labour Party expels members for supporting doctor trying to oust Hunt




Looking at those majorities the only way the NHA would actually get in is if Jeremy Hunt stood down and then shot the entire Conservative party anyway.

South West Surrey (UK Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia


Even then they'd elect the nearest corpse wearing a blue rosette anyway.


----------



## chilango (May 9, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> Looking at those majorities the only way the NHA would actually get in is if Jeremy Hunt stood down and then shot the entire Conservative party anyway.
> 
> South West Surrey (UK Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia
> 
> ...



They didn't elect this guy sadly...

Pro-Holocaust Masturbation Freedom Victor Litvin 117 0.3 _N/A_


----------



## bimble (May 9, 2017)

whole thing is so depressing.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2017)

they know she's complete shit on the fly. Thats why, awkward questions would just bring out the akward darth may we all so know and love from her years as home sec.


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2017)

The may brand is well strong.  I don't know why we're suggesting she isn't good on her feet. Where has she failed publicly?


----------



## Sue (May 9, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> Looking at those majorities the only way the NHA would actually get in is *if Jeremy Hunt stood down and then shot the entire Conservative party anyway.*
> 
> South West Surrey (UK Parliament constituency) - Wikipedia
> 
> ...


Gotta start somewhere...


----------



## bimble (May 9, 2017)

Journalists complicity willingness to play along under these conditions just adds to the feeling of being chin-deep in shit far as the eye can see.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2017)

chilango said:


> Précis of the discussions in the pub last night.
> 
> Don't know who to vote for.
> Can't vote Tory.
> ...


How many pints did that take?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> The may brand is well strong.  I don't know why we're suggesting she isn't good on her feet. Where has she failed publicly?


Just because the brand's strong doesn't mean she is. She's a cheap jewellery chain waiting for its ratner moment


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Just because the brand's strong doesn't mean she is. She's a cheap jewellery chain waiting for its ratner moment


It's not going to happen in the next month. May is a good thing for them - no matter how many failed memes saying strong and stable. Concentrate on her.


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2017)

She's a superb candidate.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> It's not going to happen in the next month. May is a good thing for them - no matter how many failed memes saying strong and stable. Concentrate on her.


By focusing on strong leadership she is making a rod for her own back


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> She's a superb candidate.


Aha. But a superb victor? Am not so sure


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> By focusing on strong leadership she is making a rod for her own back


Maybe, but it's one reason why the tories will walk this. She sells good.


----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Aha. But a superb victor? Am not so sure


 I am.


----------



## agricola (May 9, 2017)

I see Joe Anderson didn't get picked for Liverpool Walton.


----------



## bimble (May 9, 2017)

Saturday's copy of The Sun. Centrefold, giant letters:  'Theresamania!"


----------



## killer b (May 9, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> failed memes saying strong and stable.


I think these are the most depressing thing about the campaign so far.


----------



## killer b (May 9, 2017)

_Here is our campaign slogan, we're going to repeat it so often it'll be tattooed indelibly on your soul

Ok! Can we help you with that?_


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2017)

christ I'm dense sometimes- the stable bit is blatantly pointing to labours divided house shambles. How has this just occurred?


must work harder


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 9, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> christ I'm dense sometimes- the stable bit is blatantly pointing to labours divided house shambles. How has this just occurred?
> 
> 
> must work harder




I'm worried about you now. 

She's spent the last few months dodging every question with "HAHAHA LOOK AT YOUR PARTY!" on PMQ's...


----------



## Ranbay (May 9, 2017)

May has just confirmed that they are bringing back fox hunting for the working classes or something like that, I may have misheard it.


----------



## Ranbay (May 9, 2017)

Will have to buy a bloody horse now no doubt.


----------



## teqniq (May 9, 2017)

beat me to it but article here anyway.

Theresa May announces she plans to bring back fox hunting

I am presuming she feels she can pretty much say what she likes.


----------



## Brainaddict (May 9, 2017)

I find it interesting that May is so popular not in spite of appearing harsh and a bit aggressive in both policy and presentation but because of it. Corbyn's lack of aggression and lack of desire to kick his party in line seems to count against him. Much as I hate to say it, May seems to have got it right with posing as a strong leader. Apparently that's one of the main things people want in a PM.

I guess I find it disturbing on the psychological level, but also it seems to show people pay no attention to how government actually works. We don't have a presidential government that particularly requires 'strong leadership'. The PM of this country could go on holiday for a year and all you'd really need is someone to chair cabinet meetings and make the odd casting vote on policies the ministers/civil servants are coming up with. The country would just go on running as normal. To a lot of people this seems to be irrelevant compared to how PMs present themselves.


----------



## neonwilderness (May 9, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> May has just confirmed that they are bringing back fox hunting for the working classes or something like that, I may have misheard it.


Maybe it's to keep everyone distracted from the inevitable fuck up that Brexit is going to be?


----------



## rutabowa (May 9, 2017)

i'm recording an election anthem tomorrow evening, will post when it's ready.... might as well squeeze some fun out of this.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2017)

Brainaddict said:


> I find it interesting that May is so popular not in spite of appearing harsh and a bit aggressive in both policy and presentation but because of it. Corbyn's lack of aggression and lack of desire to kick his party in line seems to count against him. Much as I hate to say it, May seems to have got it right with posing as a strong leader. Apparently that's one of the main things people want in a PM.
> 
> I guess I find it disturbing on the psychological level, but also it seems to show people pay no attention to how government actually works. We don't have a presidential government that particularly requires 'strong leadership'. The PM of this country could go on holiday for a year and all you'd really need is someone to chair cabinet meetings and make the odd casting vote on policies the ministers/civil servants are coming up with. The country would just go on running as normal. To a lot of people this seems to be irrelevant compared to how PMs present themselves.


I for one don't want a poser as pm


----------



## kebabking (May 9, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Strugeon and Farron? Might watch that.



Odd, I wouldn't have had you down as enjoying blood sports...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 9, 2017)

foxhunting has already been going on unimpeded by things for the little folk...what do you call them...oh yeah laws. Bringing it back to legality is just a face rub in the dirt


----------



## chilango (May 9, 2017)

Billy Bragg has just been on C4 News pimping the progressive alliance.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 9, 2017)

From here


----------



## redsquirrel (May 9, 2017)

chilango said:


> Billy Bragg has just been on C4 News pimping the progressive alliance.


Going to vote LD again from his mansion is he?


----------



## Yossarian (May 9, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> View attachment 106346
> 
> From here



Looks kind of like he's kissing Theresa May in that photo.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 9, 2017)

Yossarian said:


> Looks kind of like he's kissing Theresa May in that photo.


He is


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 9, 2017)

Yossarian said:


> Looks kind of like he's kissing Theresa May in that photo.


Suddenly my earphone cable/shitty arse interface debacle doesn't seem so bad


----------



## Who PhD (May 9, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> View attachment 106346
> 
> From here


What the fuck is that boom mike doing?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 9, 2017)




----------



## butchersapron (May 9, 2017)

Tone/judged


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 9, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> What the fuck is that boom mike doing?


It's not a boom mike, it's the Lib Dem ancestral leader's merkin, passed down from Steel to Ashdown, from Kennedy to Campbell, from Clegg to Farron.


----------



## Who PhD (May 10, 2017)

She's actually come out and said she's pro fox hunting. 

Pass me the prissy biscuit!


----------



## Wilf (May 10, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> It's not a boom mike, it's the Lib Dem ancestral leader's merkin, passed down from Steel to Ashdown, from Kennedy to Campbell, from Clegg to Farron.


That's true. Apparently Jo Grimmond made it the President of his very own drinking club at Oxford when the Bullingdon lot wouldn't let him in.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 10, 2017)

Tory Election Fraud: I've been a Westminster Election Agent enough times to know that it does not take nearly 2 years for plod to hum and ahh over some receipts.

Neither is it a job for Columbo to work out who is responsible for porkie pies regarding expenditure: The agent signs their name and address on the legal paperwork.

It's a field laden with grey areas, but I was confident that C4 News had uncovered evidence of blatant trampling over those areas.
So what we have here is the long-grassing of the investigation followed by a clear signal that the laws on expenditure are next to useless.

The party with the most money is best placed to take advantage of that and now knows what they can get away with.

This is a very bad day for such democratic process and accountability as we have.


----------



## killer b (May 10, 2017)

The comments on this facebook post about anti-tory grafiti in Totnes are heartwarming.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 10, 2017)

> “However, it is clear agents were told by Conservative Party headquarters that the costs were part of the national campaign and it would not be possible to prove any agent acted knowingly or dishonestly. Therefore we have concluded it is not in the public interest to charge anyone referred to us with this offence.”



Just following Tory HQ orders.... Since when has "just following orders" or "I didn't know it was agaisnt the law" been a legitimate defense?


----------



## DJWrongspeed (May 10, 2017)

I'm surviving this election by not thinking it's a real election, crap I know


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 10, 2017)

P.s on Tory election fraud: the CPS announcement has been made the day before the close of nominations. They have twiddled their thumbs and acted at the best time to suit said party, so as to clear the air just in time for candidates who have been under the microscope. The chances of this date being coincidence are vanishingly small. A cynic might suppose that the CPS have actively worked with the governing party on this, thus politicising themselves. Cynics are often correct aren't they?


----------



## agricola (May 10, 2017)

Meanwhile, in Lambeth:



> Britain’s highest-paid primary school headteacher, who was knighted three years ago for his services to education, has been suspended from work amid an investigation into allegations of fraud.
> 
> The suspension of Sir Craig Tunstall, the £374,000-a-year executive headteacher at the Gypsy Hill federation of eight primary schools in south London, was confirmed in a letter to parents.
> 
> The Guardian understands that Tunstall, who had been trying to transform the Gypsy Hill federation into academy status, has become embroiled in a fraud investigation involving several members of staff. It is unclear whether police have been informed.


----------



## bimble (May 10, 2017)

agricola said:


> Meanwhile, in Lambeth:


Jesus. Lambeth Council, they never disappoint.


----------



## killer b (May 10, 2017)

Is he a council employee?


----------



## Who PhD (May 10, 2017)

I'm not sure I am going to survive this election at all. Though this news is as unexpected as the rising sun,, the arrogance of the precious little liars is galling. You might be forgiven for thinking they might lay low and keep their heads down for a time. T jus goes to show the contempt they have for us


----------



## kebabking (May 10, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I'm not sure I am going to survive this election at all. Though this news is as unexpected as the rising sun,, the arrogance of the precious little liars is galling. You might be forgiven for thinking they might lay low and keep their heads down for a time. T jus goes to show the contempt they have for us



Que?


----------



## bimble (May 10, 2017)

killer b said:


> Is he a council employee?


looks like it yes.


----------



## agricola (May 10, 2017)

killer b said:


> Is he a council employee?



According to the Standard*, yes.

* with the obvious caveats


----------



## bimble (May 10, 2017)

Estimated amount of money they'll get for selling off our adventure playground is probably just enough to keep that man in his job for 2/3 years.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2017)

killer b said:


> The comments on this facebook post about anti-tory grafiti in Totnes are heartwarming.



This is why you should take screenshots


----------



## killer b (May 10, 2017)

there was too many! I think it's still there, people have been sharing it all day... it just doesn't seem to have linked to properly from here, dunno why.


----------



## Who PhD (May 10, 2017)

kebabking said:


> Que?


You might think that, having been the subject of what is evidently a whitewash, these Tories might show some humility and keep their heads down. But their willingness to speak out and cry foul is just another example of their contempt for the rest of us.


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2017)

> The suspension of Sir Craig Tunstall, the £374,000-a-year executive headteacher at the Gypsy Hill federation of eight primary schools in south London, was confirmed in a letter to parents.



374,000!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 10, 2017)

treelover said:


> 374,000!


Clearly you should have gone into teaching, tl.


----------



## Wilf (May 10, 2017)

"Right Angela, you're going on the Nick Ferrari show, you remember what happened To Diane Abbot?"
- yes, absolutely.
"So, no way you'll do the same?  You've got all the figures to hand?"
- Yes, yes, of course!
Labour's Angela Rayner 'does a Diane Abbott' in car-crash LBC Radio interview


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 10, 2017)

Benefit claimants take to social media to describe DWP ‘hell’ and ‘abuse’


----------



## free spirit (May 10, 2017)

free spirit said:


> this negotiating for parties to stand aside to attempt to beat the tories thing seems to be harder to make happen than it looks even when all sides want it to happen.


We got there in the end, though the press release was a little more grudging then was really needed if us standing down is going to help swing the vote in either constituency.


----------



## 1927 (May 10, 2017)

If the labour manifesto as leaked is true, then they might as well give up now, cos the tax rises necessary to pay for their promises are gonna be mean higher tax rates for everyone except those on minimum wage, and even they probably would'nt escape!


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2017)

If the Labour Party really is going to have nationalising the energy industry, railways, bus firms and the Royal Mail in its manifesto, I'm going to have to give that some serious thought. I support all of those things.


----------



## 1927 (May 10, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> If the Labour Party really is going to have nationalising the energy industry, railways, bus firms and the Royal Mail in its manifesto, I'm going to have to give that some serious thought. I support all of those things.


They can promise to do all the things, but how the feck are they going to pay?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2017)

1927 said:


> They can promise to do all the things, but how the feck are they going to pay?


Selling off the public schools.


----------



## 1927 (May 10, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Selling off the public schools.


get real. have you seen how much an energy company is these days?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 10, 2017)

1927 said:


> They can promise to do all the things, but how the feck are they going to pay?



From what I can glean (The Mirror's read is a bit more nuanced than, say, the Telegraph's) is that they're not necessarily proposing straight renationalisations but eg taking back the railway franchises as existing contracts expire, creating public competitors in the energy and bus sectors etc


----------



## Dogsauce (May 10, 2017)

It could just be shit-stirring bollocks, and not actually a proper document at all. A good 'dead cat' when the dodgy election expenses story is back in the news.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2017)

1927 said:


> get real. have you seen how much an energy company is these days?


Oh fuck off you Tory bore, you don't even know a joke when you see one. But I'd sell off the public schools even if I thought it'd lose money.


----------



## The39thStep (May 10, 2017)

1927 said:


> If the labour manifesto as leaked is true, then they might as well give up now, cos the tax rises necessary to pay for their promises are gonna be mean higher tax rates for everyone except those on minimum wage, and even they probably would'nt escape!


What's your evidence for that then?


----------



## killer b (May 10, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> the dodgy election expenses story is back in the news.


it's over. let it go.


----------



## brixtonblade (May 10, 2017)

bimble said:


> looks like it yes.
> 
> View attachment 106389


His pay is such that the board of governors of the school are required to present the council with evidence that it has been benchmarked independently and represents value for money.  I believe that Lambeth council are unable to evidence that this has happened.


----------



## kebabking (May 10, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> What's your evidence for that then?



Gut feeling?

What Labour appears to be proposing is stuff I like, but it is expensive. It's not a couple of billion you can squeeze out of other budgets, it's lots, and lots, and lots of billions - and Labour appears to be saying that they will be able to get the money for all of it from one source, which is corporation tax.

They have also been explicit in saying that personal taxation for those earning less that (iirc) £90k will not increase - which is about 95% of the population - personally I'm hugely sceptical that they will be able to find the money that all these nice things will cost can be found from corporation tax and increased taxation for just 5% of the population.

That's not to say these things shouldn't be paid for, or that they aren't really worth doing, but I'm afraid I'm not remotely convinced that all the money to find them can be found where Labour says it can be found.


----------



## neonwilderness (May 10, 2017)

kebabking said:


> Gut feeling?
> 
> What Labour appears to be proposing is stuff I like, but it is expensive. It's not a couple of billion you can squeeze out of other budgets, it's lots, and lots, and lots of billions - and Labour appears to be saying that they will be able to get the money for all of it from one source, which is corporation tax.
> 
> ...


John McDonnell gave a speech saying they would borrow more (to invest, not for current spending) as well as the increase from tax. 

Presumably the spending plans will also be staggered over 5 years, rather than all happening on the 9th of June, so I guess we need to see the full manifesto to see how the figures stack up.


----------



## Wilf (May 10, 2017)

Might be wrong, but I don't think Labour was talking about these things explicitly a month ago (?).  When the details emerge I've got my suspicions there won't be many economists saying 'hmm, that looks like it might work'.  Sounds like a political strategy to keep working class and pro-public sector voters, to get people thinking about the election in something other than Brexit terms.  Labour are so far behind this probably works well as mood music, as in nobody thinks they are going to win, so there won't be too much screeching about how it will 'bankrupt the country' (as there was in 83, when Labour were talking about full on renationalisations with 'minimum compensation'.  Actually, might be wrong on that, it might have been an NEC policy document from the same era, but you get the point).


----------



## redsquirrel (May 10, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> If the Labour Party really is going to have nationalising the energy industry, railways, bus firms and the Royal Mail in its manifesto, I'm going to have to give that some serious thought. I support all of those things.


Yes, it might even persuade me to vote for them



Wilf said:


> Labour are so far behind this probably works well as mood music, as in nobody thinks they are going to win, so there won't be too much screeching about how it will 'bankrupt the country' (as there was in 83, when Labour were talking about full on renationalisations with 'minimum compensation'.  Actually, might be wrong on that, it might have been an NEC policy document from the same era, but you get the point).


Yeah no point in playing it safe, Corbyn and McDonnell may as push things they want rather than some weak compromise that doesn't satisfy anyone.


----------



## Wilf (May 11, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Yeah no point in playing it safe, Corbyn and McDonnell may as push things they want rather than some weak compromise that doesn't satisfy anyone.


No need to stop there. Might as well say they'll throw Noel Edmonds down a mineshaft and beat Simon Cowell to death with the corpse of Louis Walsh. That would get them up to a small majority in the Commons.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 11, 2017)

1927 said:


> They can promise to do all the things, but how the feck are they going to pay?




This question is asked of Labour at nearly every election, and on occasions where the tories win the economy generally does even worse as a consequence. National and private debt are at record levels, wages are at their most stagnant since the 1800s. Investment in infrastructure makes a good deal of economic sense. We managed to own and run much of this stuff in the past, is the puport that we have gone so far backwards under neoliberalism? If so, time to reverse it I would think. Now, I haven't costed all Labour's proposals but I know the free education one was costed by the Greens at previous elections. Where there's a will there's a way. The money seems to be there for Trident, HS2 and throwing at bankers.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 11, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> *It could just be shit-stirring bollocks*, and not actually a proper document at all. A good 'dead cat' when the dodgy election expenses story is back in the news.




That's my instinct too. How genuine is this?


----------



## chilango (May 11, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> If the Labour Party really is going to have nationalising the energy industry, railways, bus firms and the Royal Mail in its manifesto, I'm going to have to give that some serious thought. I support all of those things.



Yeah. it would give me pause for thought at least.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 11, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Yes, it might even persuade me to vote for them


Yup. Unless it's some sorry-arsed compromise they end up offering. The last time I voted Labour in a general election was 1983, so this isn't something I say lightly. Even though I'm only talking about potentially considering it.

(And there are other considerations to balance too: the history of Labour in Scotland. They have a lot to do to overcome my distaste for them. But it does help that the SNP might not use their manifesto to give a clear independence referendum mandate. If they don't, then I'll feel no need to vote for them).


----------



## bi0boy (May 11, 2017)

1927 said:


> They can promise to do all the things, but how the feck are they going to pay?



They can seize them


----------



## Mr Moose (May 11, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> This question is asked of Labour at nearly every election, and on occasions where the tories win the economy generally does even worse as a consequence. National and private debt are at record levels, wages are at their most stagnant since the 1800s. Investment in infrastructure makes a good deal of economic sense. We managed to own and run much of this stuff in the past, is the puport that we have gone so far backwards under neoliberalism? If so, time to reverse it I would think. Now, I haven't costed all Labour's proposals but I know the free education one was costed by the Greens at previous elections. Where there's a will there's a way. The money seems to be there for Trident, HS2 and throwing at bankers.



Nationalisation came out of hard times and war. There is not the money to renationalise what has been sold off and why do that? Unless you change the law and seize assets it would be bumper pay out day for the shareholders.

I haven't read this yet, but I believe it may be more about state owned alternatives, which would be great. Build new energy companies for example, to provide better, greener deals and build assets for the people. I would say a swift 'fuck you' to any privatised offering I could for the same or subsidised cost.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> They can seize them



Smear, insinuate and lie. You'd make  a good Tory.


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

where's that from?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Eoin Clarke (@LabourEoin) on Twitter


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

Does he say where he got it from? He's not the most reliable of sources.


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

(I can't actually see Eoin Clarke's tweets to check myself because, like half of twitter, he's blocked me)


----------



## bi0boy (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Smear, insinuate and lie. You'd make  a good Tory.



I was being serious. I doubt Labour are though.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

killer b said:


> Does he say where he got it from? He's not the most reliable of sources.



Do you have an example of Eoin Clarke's alleged "unreliability"? 

In fact, rather than just insinuate that this is inaccurate, why not go to the Labour Manifesto and find evidence to debunk it?


----------



## chilango (May 11, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Yup. Unless it's some sorry-arsed compromise they end up offering. The last time I voted Labour in a general election was 1983, so this isn't something I say lightly. Even though I'm only talking about potentially considering it.
> 
> (And there are other considerations to balance too: the history of Labour in Scotland. They have a lot to do to overcome my distaste for them. But it does help that the SNP might not use their manifesto to give a clear independence referendum mandate. If they don't, then I'll feel no need to vote for them).



I've never voted Labour. And my posts recently  should should make it abundantly clear why I haven't, and why I won't.

...but if I find myself defending Labour policies in conversation then we're on new ground.

Edit to add: tbh I doubt once the early morning headlines are out the of the way this actually going to be an issue for me, and I suspect by lunchtime normal service will resume


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I was being serious.



Your extreme far-left proposal seems oddly out of character. Are you sure you weren't just being facetious?


----------



## chilango (May 11, 2017)

chilango said:


> I've never voted Labour. And my posts recently  should should make it abundantly clear why I haven't, and why I won't.
> 
> ...but if I find myself defending Labour policies in conversation then we're on new ground.
> 
> Edit to add: tbh I doubt once the early morning headlines are out the of the way this actually going to be an issue for me, and I suspect by lunchtime normal service will resume



...though I might take the drastic, and unprecedented, action of claiming a Labour vote in the next opinion poll I complete.

Seems a fair compromise, no?


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> In fact, rather than just insinuate that this is inaccurate, why not go to the Labour Manifesto and find evidence to debunk it?


because it hasn't been released yet.


----------



## brogdale (May 11, 2017)

killer b said:


> because it hasn't been released yet.


I think we may have discovered _pre-factual politics!_


----------



## chilango (May 11, 2017)

brogdale said:


> I think we may have discovered _pre-factual politics!_


Pre-truth.


----------



## bimble (May 11, 2017)

Telegraph & Dm both running with same headline about 'taking Britain Back to the 70s'. Maybe because they don't want people to read the content they've gone for the strong visual alarm signals.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

killer b said:


> because it hasn't been released yet.



It was my understanding that it had been leaked
Labour's entire draft election manifesto has just leaked


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> It was my understanding that it had been leaked
> Labour's entire draft election manifesto has just leaked


Yeh. But your understanding notoriously feeble


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

I have read some articles about It, but have yet to find anything about a 20% tax on private school tuition  or a 20% tax on private health insurance, for example. Both of which are more likely to have appeared from eoin Clarke's fevered imagination than the Labour party manifesto imo.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Go ahead and cast aspersions on Eoin Clarke while he's trying to support Labour as they attempt to get May out of No. 10. After all, what better use of your time, eh?

Who's next? Tom Pride?


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

Seriously though - if those were real, the telegraph would be leading with them. They aren't. It's weirdo eoin's back of a fag packet wishlist.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Go ahead and cast aspersions on Eoin Clarke while he's trying to support Labour as they attempt to get May out of No. 10. After all, what better use of your time, eh?


The best thing you could do for labour is start supporting the tories.


----------



## bi0boy (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Your extreme far-left proposal seems oddly out of character. Are you sure you weren't just being facetious?



You don't seem to be a good judge of character.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 11, 2017)

bimble said:


> Telegraph & Dm both running with same headline about 'taking Britain Back to the 70s'. Maybe because they don't want people to read the content they've gone for the strong visual alarm signals.
> 
> View attachment 106444View attachment 106445



But I _want _to go back to the 70s.


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Go ahead and cast aspersions on Eoin Clarke while he's trying to support Labour as they attempt to get May out of No. 10. After all, what better use of your time, eh?
> 
> Who's next? Tom Pride?


I think obvious, provable bullshitters harm the causes they claim to support. 

Tell you what though: I'll give a fiver to the Labour party election fund for each of those 20% taxes he's made up if they turn out to be true. Prove him right and that's a tenner towards getting may out.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

killer b said:


> I think obvious, provable bullshitters harm the causes they claim to support.



Off you go and debunk his claims, then.


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

I've spent 20 minutes this morning looking for any trace of these two 20% taxes, nothing so far. Can you help me out?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Nah. My internet time, futile that it is, is spent looking for and passing on stuff that will hurt the Tories.


----------



## Rimbaud (May 11, 2017)

"Labour's elections chair has called the leak of their manifesto "not ideal" but says on the plus side people are now talking about the party's vision."

Hmm. I wonder if this leak isn't some smart move to play the media - the policies are kind of difficult to put in a bad light, and Labour know that they are popular policies, but having them "leaked" rather than formally released is more likely to get them in the headlines.


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Nah. My internet time, futile that it is, is spent looking for and passing on stuff that will hurt the Tories.


That's an easy £10 to the fighting fund you're turning down. Surely that would hurt the tories more than posting spittle-flecked wibble on internet forums?

I'll double it: £20 to the Labour party if you can find any evidence of those two taxes in the next half hour.


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Nah. My internet time, futile that it is, is spent looking for and passing on stuff that will hurt the Tories.


Do you have some sort of method of evaluating the reliability of sources?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Not really. I check in with Labour First to find out if it's "on message" and if it isn't I just rubbish the source rather than debunk it with evidence.

The best bit about this tactic, is that I demand that the source, which I had previously not been familiar with but I accuse of being unreliable, must be shown to be reliable by proving that _he or she is not lying._


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

Still found nothing about those 20% taxes. I think a complete absence of evidence in support counts as evidence against doesn't it?


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

twenty quid. Don't you even want a Labour victory?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 11, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> But I _want _to go back to the 70s.


Lowest level of inequality, highest % of GDP as wages


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Lowest level of inequality, highest % of GDP as wages


And music better than today


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Not really. I check in with Labour First to find out if it's "on message" and if it isn't I just rubbish the source rather than debunk it with evidence.
> 
> The best bit about this tactic, is that I demand that the source, which I had previously not been familiar with but I accuse of being unreliable, must be shown to be reliable by proving that _he or she is not lying._


Marvelous  - you're the first person on here to have heard of Eoin Clarke.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 11, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Lowest level of inequality, highest % of GDP as wages



Yep. And lower (although rising) unemployment.





Now if we could get back to the levels we had between '45 and '70 that'd be something. Pipe dreams, I know.


----------



## bemused (May 11, 2017)

I love the fact that being 'extremely cautious' about using nuclear weapons is a controversial policy.


----------



## brogdale (May 11, 2017)

1970's; the last decade of concessions borne of fear.


----------



## Raheem (May 11, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Now if we could get back to the levels we had between '45 and '70 that'd be something. Pipe dreams, I know.



Patience, patience. We can't have a war on that scale until we get our sovereignty back.


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Marvelous  - you're the first person on here to have heard of Eoin Clarke.


yeah, there definitely isn't discussion on this forum about his bullshit going back 5 years.


----------



## Raheem (May 11, 2017)

bemused said:


> I love the fact that being 'extremely cautious' about using nuclear weapons is a controversial policy.



Always wear gloves. It's health and safety gone mad.


----------



## bemused (May 11, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Always wear gloves. It's health and safety gone mad.



Now Paul Nuttall knows it is controversial stand by for a picture of him with a red button and the caption 'vote for me and I'll slam this bitch'


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 11, 2017)




----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Well we'll see if Eoin is right then, shall we?

If he is, I fully expect to get a whole bunch of "meh, so what, jezza is stilll shit" from butchersapron and killerb. They're saving their enthusiasm until after Jeremy's gone.


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Well we'll see if Eoin is right then, shall we?


If Eoin is right, I will be sending a crisp twenty pound note to Labour Party HQ and will happily post a mea culpa here. I'm confident that won't be necessary though.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Remaining skeptical, killer b. I wouldn't trust you to mention it ever again. Down a memory hole it wil go, is my guess.


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

fuck you.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Let's see shall, we?


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

I'll look forward to your mea culpa when those 20% taxes on private schools and private healthcare don't show up in the manifesto then.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 11, 2017)

The 20% on private schools/healthcare is just achieved by adding VAT to these items, I've heard it mentioned as a policy idea before. No idea why these luxuries are exempt in the first place (well actually, I have a pretty good idea why, but no idea what 'justification' was given).


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Will do. Ask yourself this: why do you hope that it won't be true?


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2017)

They certainly don't appear in the draft manifesto.


----------



## brogdale (May 11, 2017)

Interesting graphic...hope they keep up-dating it...kind of relates to the discussion surrounding Who PhD 's exhortation to vote LP.


----------



## brogdale (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Will do. Ask yourself this: why do you hope that it won't be true?


You've outed him as a tory. smart work Mikey.


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> They certainly don't appear in the draft manifesto.


Dropping the VAT exception on private school fees is actually - there's an unspecified increase on private health insurance tax mentioned, but not 20%.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Waiting for killer b to semantically squirm-out-of-it: i.e._ "VAT does not count"_


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

Looking through his other points, very few are supported by the draft manifesto: there's a commitment to ensuring excess private profits aren't made out of the NHS, no commitment to end profitmaking altogether; there's no reference to Capital Gains or inheritance tax, no mention of reversing corporation tax cuts; no sweetheart deals ban, just a commitment to strengthening tax collection enforcement. 

So...


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Waiting for killer b to semantically squirm-out-of-it: i.e._ "VAT does not count"_


No, that's fair enough. They can have a tenner.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Well, I can't argue with that. Respect.


----------



## killer b (May 11, 2017)

It's still a well dodgy list, mind.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2017)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> From what I can glean (The Mirror's read is a bit more nuanced than, say, the Telegraph's) is that they're not necessarily proposing straight renationalisations but eg taking back the railway franchises as existing contracts expire, creating public competitors in the energy and bus sectors etc



Or, at least not disadvantaging public competitors, as currently happens.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2017)

killer b said:


> Does he say where he got it from? He's not the most reliable of sources.



Ain't that the truth?  The bloke is a regular Cptin Fceplm!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Go ahead and cast aspersions on Eoin Clarke while he's trying to support Labour as they attempt to get May out of No. 10. After all, what better use of your time, eh?
> 
> Who's next? Tom Pride?



Clarke has a pisspoor record for good reporting.  He often gets the wrong end of a stick and reports his misconception as fact.  He's enthusiastic, but not particularly competent.


----------



## agricola (May 11, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Clarke has a pisspoor record for good reporting.  He often gets the wrong end of a stick and reports his misconception as fact.  He's enthusiastic, but not particularly competent.



sort of a mirror universe Dan Hodges?


----------



## belboid (May 11, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> He's enthusiastic, but not particularly competent.


Eoin or Milkey?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2017)

agricola said:


> sort of a mirror universe Dan Hodges?



Yep.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2017)

belboid said:


> Eoin or Milkey?




Both!


----------



## agricola (May 11, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yep.



what a crazy world that Eoin must live in... perhaps over there its his mum that lives in his house


----------



## The39thStep (May 11, 2017)

kebabking said:


> Gut feeling?
> 
> What Labour appears to be proposing is stuff I like, but it is expensive. It's not a couple of billion you can squeeze out of other budgets, it's lots, and lots, and lots of billions - and Labour appears to be saying that they will be able to get the money for all of it from one source, which is corporation tax.
> 
> ...


Have they said where the money is to be found?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2017)

agricola said:


> what a crazy world that Eoin must live in... perhaps over there its his mum that lives in his house



Ouch!  And she was never a famous actress, over-shadowing his own soaring career!


----------



## kebabking (May 11, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Have they said where the money is to be found?



Corporation tax, VAT on private school fees, and undefined raising of personal taxation on incomes above £80k - from what I can see...


----------



## The39thStep (May 11, 2017)

kebabking said:


> Corporation tax, VAT on private school fees, and undefined raising of personal taxation on incomes above £80k - from what I can see...



I suspect that you are right on those three but the draft manifesto has yet to be costed and agreed yet according to McDonnell


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

So basically, the "think that money grows on trees" argument can be refuted. Hope so, cos the lie that Labour sank the economy through overspending was a big factor in the 2010 and 2015 win- and paved the way to austerity.


----------



## Who PhD (May 11, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


>



anarchists don't tell others what to do? 

Bollocks


----------



## Who PhD (May 11, 2017)

killer b said:


> I'll look forward to your mea culpa when those 20% taxes on private schools and private healthcare don't show up in the manifesto then.


There's no reason to think Corbyn would endorse private healthcare


----------



## kebabking (May 11, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> I suspect that you are right on those three but the draft manifesto has yet to be costed and agreed yet according to McDonnell



That's why I suspect that the leak is someone on the Corbyn side - once this stuff has been put out there, regardless of it being the draft or not, it can't be towed back on. 

It's quite possible that some of this stuff would have gone in the 'Nice to have for a second term' pile rather than the 'this must happen on day one's pile - now it's out there the money will just have to be found regardless of how wise McDonnell or others in the party might think trying to do it all in one go are.


----------



## agricola (May 11, 2017)

kebabking said:


> That's why I suspect that the leak is someone on the Corbyn side - once this stuff has been put out there, regardless of it being the draft or not, it can't be towed back on.



I have a very hard time believing that they wouldn't have publicized the fact that it came from someone close to Corbyn, if that is where it did come from.  I also find it very hard to believe that the media don't know who leaked a manifesto draft to every major paper in the country.


----------



## Raheem (May 11, 2017)

agricola said:


> I have a very hard time believing that they wouldn't have publicized the fact that it came from someone close to Corbyn, if that is where it did come from.  I also find it very hard to believe that the media don't know who leaked a manifesto draft to every major paper in the country.



They do. Or at least, they journalist who first received it says he does.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 11, 2017)

Must say I was very disappointed with the latest Plaid Cymru PPB. So much needlessly typical nationalistic doom about what THEY are doing to US. now, "they" are nominally tories, and fair enough in some ways, but it could easily be read as thinly veiled anglophobia.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

A lot of English I read/hear seem to be using the term Anglophobia. Usually after saying how much contempt they have for anybody but the English.


----------



## kebabking (May 11, 2017)

agricola said:


> ...I also find it very hard to believe that the media don't know who leaked a manifesto draft to every major paper in the country.



The bloke from the Mirror was on the radio earlier - he knows who it was as it appeared in his inbox, and was prepared to say that it definitely wasn't a mistake, but wasn't prepared to speculate on motivation so as to to avoid identifying his source.

He says that the Mirror got it - and supported it,  the BBC got it, as did the telegraph.

If only sympathetic or unsympathetic media had got it it would be easier to determine the motivation, but that's not what happened...


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)




----------



## Artaxerxes (May 11, 2017)

I should really join to vote for Corbyn in the next leadership election.


----------



## Raheem (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


>




I'm pretty sure calling something "radical" never changes anyone's mind about it anyway.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 11, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> I should really join to vote for Corbyn in the next leadership election.



Should one occur, he will probably not be a candidate and nor will any MP loyal to him.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Should one occur, he will probably not be a candidate and nor will any MP loyal to him.


unless he resigns he's auto on the ballot. They went to court and everything


----------



## butchersapron (May 11, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> unless he resigns he's auto on the ballot. They went to court and everything


 Only if he wants to be. They can't force him.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Only if he wants to be. They can't force him.


'resigns or declines to stand' then


----------



## bemused (May 11, 2017)

Raheem said:


> I'm pretty sure calling something "radical" never changes anyone's mind about it anyway.



The phrase he's looking for is 'strong and stable'


----------



## bemused (May 11, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Only if he wants to be. They can't force him.



I'd imagine he'd be under huge pressure to hang around until they change the nomination rules.


----------



## bimble (May 11, 2017)

The vehemence with which the ideas are being attacked by the DM and co kind of makes it look like labor are suddenly a threat, because what if people might look at the proposals and like them. They've moved on now to saying "Mr Corbyn .. has drawn up a manifesto which experts says is 'delusional' and will take Britain back to the 1940s" , because the 1970s wasn't scary enough.


----------



## andysays (May 11, 2017)

Edit: this question makes more sense on the other thread, so I'll post it there instead...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2017)

andysays said:


> Edit: this question makes more sense on the other thread, so I'll post it there instead...


Go on then


----------



## free spirit (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> So basically, the "think that money grows on trees" argument can be refuted. Hope so, cos the lie that Labour sank the economy through overspending was a big factor in the 2010 and 2015 win- and paved the way to austerity.


not tackling the lie and meekly accepting the false economic logic of austerity is what cost you those elections.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Should one occur, he will probably not be a candidate and nor will any MP loyal to him.


And how are you making sure of this?


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 11, 2017)

bimble said:


> The vehemence with which the ideas are being attacked by the DM and co kind of makes it look like labor are suddenly a threat, because what if people might look at the proposals and like them. They've moved on now to saying "*Mr Corbyn .. has drawn up a manifesto which experts says is 'delusional' and will take Britain back to the 1940s" *, because the 1970s wasn't scary enough.



Ironically that's what most Mail readers want...


----------



## stethoscope (May 11, 2017)

free spirit said:


> not tackling the lie and meekly accepting the false economic logic of austerity is what cost you those elections.



Didn't you vote Lib 'tough decisions in the national interest' Dem?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 11, 2017)

Got our first leaflet through the door, from the incumbent Lib Dems, who have a 3000 majority, with Labour their nearest rivals.
It only speaks of Brexit. That the Lib Dems are the only party who will fight a 'strong Brexit'.
Half of the leaflet is devoted to Jeremy Corbyn's lacklustre opposition to Brexit. UKIP mentioned very briefly. Not one mention of the Tories, so they can't be worried about a swing toward them. They may regret this.


----------



## FiFi (May 11, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Got our first leaflet through the door, from the incumbent Lib Dems, who have a 3000 majority, with Labour their nearest rivals.
> It only speaks of Brexit. That the Lib Dems are the only party who will fight a 'strong Brexit'.
> Half of the leaflet is devoted to Jeremy Corbyn's lacklustre opposition to Brexit. UKIP mentioned very briefly. Not one mention of the Tories, so they can't be worried about a swing toward them. They may regret this.


The argument in my constituency is that "only we can beat the Tories here, and provide a strong opposition".


----------



## hash tag (May 11, 2017)

Of course the LibDems aren't fighting for power, instead offering the strongest opposition.

No leaflets here yet, thankfully.


----------



## bimble (May 11, 2017)

Teresa May is doing a live radio phone-in !
LBC Leaders Live: Watch Theresa May Live From 7pm - LBC
She's unbelievably dull, and defensive.

"i'm going to go out there and bat for Britain'
"every vote for me and my team with strengthen our hand in negotiating brexit'


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Got our first leaflet through the door, from the incumbent Lib Dems, who have a 3000 majority, with Labour their nearest rivals.
> It only speaks of Brexit. That the Lib Dems are the only party who will fight a 'strong Brexit'.
> Half of the leaflet is devoted to Jeremy Corbyn's lacklustre opposition to Brexit. UKIP mentioned very briefly. Not one mention of the Tories, so they can't be worried about a swing toward them. They may regret this.


Yeh. But who cares?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 11, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. But who cares?


Strange question to ask on a thread about the general election


----------



## free spirit (May 11, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Didn't you vote Lib 'tough decisions in the national interest' Dem?


fuck me, seriously? In 50 years time will you still be popping up to spout this crap in my obituary?

No I didn't vote for that, I voted for something different that I didn't end up getting and walked away in disgust almost as soon as they went into coalition with the tories.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 11, 2017)

free spirit said:


> fuck me, seriously? In 50 years time will you still be popping up to spout this crap in my obituary?
> 
> No I didn't vote for that, I voted for something different that I didn't end up getting and walked away in disgust almost as soon as they went into coalition with the tories.


that's another thing - the lib dems have promised they won't go into a coalition with anyone this time


----------



## The39thStep (May 11, 2017)

bimble said:


> The vehemence with which the ideas are being attacked by the DM and co kind of makes it look like labor are suddenly a threat, because what if people might look at the proposals and like them. They've moved on now to saying "Mr Corbyn .. has drawn up a manifesto which experts says is 'delusional' and will take Britain back to the 1940s" , because the 1970s wasn't scary enough.


The comments section on the leaked manifesto in the Mail are quite enlightening


----------



## free spirit (May 11, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> that's another thing - the lib dems have promised they won't go into a coalition with anyone this time



Which essentially means they'll allow whichever party or coalition of parties excluding the lib dems) has the most MPs to form a government even if they could have stopped it.

ie it's a vote lib dem and the tories will probably end up in power anyway arrangement again, but then in that scenario on every vote they would need the lib dem support, so it basically is a confidence and supply arrangements even if they don't call it that.

So it's a fucking stupid policy in practice, but I guess it allows them to pretend to be neutral.

Greens on the other hand have voted at conference for no coalitions and no confidence and supply or any other form of support for a tory government, so post election we're firmly on the Labour side of the fence that the lib dems are attempting to pretend to be balanced on.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 11, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> that's another thing - the lib dems have promised they won't go into a coalition with anyone this time


Yeah, the only reason why they'll stick by that promise is because they'll not have the opportunity to go into coalition with anyone, the yellow fucks.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Strange question to ask on a thread about the general election


By no means. Who cares if the limp dems regret it? Do you?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 11, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> By no means. Who cares if the limp dems regret it? Do you?


I care if there's a Tory landslide cos their opposition is feeble


----------



## ChrisD (May 11, 2017)

I have had a personal letter from a Theresa May today....well a computer generated one with fake signature in different colour and using my full forename in several places (which no one uses)... a bit of a waste considering I'm the local Green Party agent.  
Haven't come across anyone else receiving it (the other 3 on electoral roll in our house didn't get one.  What list are they using?


----------



## brixtonblade (May 11, 2017)

ChrisD said:


> I have had a personal letter from a Theresa May today....well a computer generated one with fake signature in different colour and using my full forename in several places (which no one uses)... a bit of a waste considering I'm the local Green Party agent.
> Haven't come across anyone else receiving it (the other 3 on electoral roll in our house didn't get one.  What list are they using?


Postal votes? People who vote at every election?


----------



## Who PhD (May 11, 2017)

ffs


----------



## Who PhD (May 11, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> PLEASE REPORT TO YOUR NEAREST LIQUIDATION CHAMBER,
> INEXPLICABLE FEELINGS OF SENTIMENT,
> THERESANDROID MAY



somethinglike that i imagine


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I care if there's a Tory landslide cos their opposition is feeble


Yeh. But their opposition not in question, this is an election not a debate in parliament. It'd be their weak campaigning that does for them.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2017)

brixtonblade said:


> Postal votes? People who vote at every election?


Resettlement in the british antarctic territory list


----------



## Orang Utan (May 11, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. But their opposition not in question, this is an election not a debate in parliament. It'd be their weak campaigning that does for them.


yes, exactly, that's why I posted an example of such


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> yes, exactly, that's why I posted an example of such


*yawn*


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 11, 2017)

bimble said:


> Teresa May is doing a live radio phone-in !
> LBC Leaders Live: Watch Theresa May Live From 7pm - LBC
> She's unbelievably dull, and defensive.
> 
> ...


I knew it was on but refused to listen , thanks for the update


----------



## teqniq (May 11, 2017)




----------



## Gerry1time (May 11, 2017)

ChrisD said:


> Haven't come across anyone else receiving it (the other 3 on electoral roll in our house didn't get one.  What list are they using?



An incredibly sophisticated one I should imagine - The great British Brexit robbery: how our democracy was hijacked

The irony being that they've probably profiled you for the contents of the letter against all sorts of niche criteria, but missed your actual political affliation.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 11, 2017)

Wasn't quite sure where to post this, could have gone a number of different thread including the Guardian=shit one, but just saw the below and thought it was worth highlighting. Lovely word "forced", reminded me of the discussion on this thread.


> *The Institute for Fiscal Studies director, Paul Johnson, has said the Labour plans amount to the biggest state intervention in the economy for decades.* (Readers have pointed out that the bank bail-outs were bigger, but Johnson was talking about interventions that governments have chosen to make, not those forced on them by economic catastrophe.)


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 11, 2017)

TUSC CONFIRMS NO CANDIDATES IN JUNE AND FULL SUPPORT FOR A CORBYN LED GOVERNMENT WITH SOCIALIST POLICIES


----------



## ChrisD (May 11, 2017)

brixtonblade said:


> Postal votes? People who vote at every election?



Included in these but so is my wife... but they think I'm head of the household 	  Looking at the envelope I read it as GCHQ.
 []


----------



## Wilf (May 11, 2017)

ChrisD said:


> Included in these but so is my wife... but they think I'm head of the household 	  Looking at the envelope I read it as GCHQ.
> View attachment 106486 [] View attachment 106487


Are you an Exeter or a Brexiter Chris?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 11, 2017)

Strong and stable leadership. Coalition of chaos. Strong and stable leadership. Coalition of chaos. Strong and stable leadership. Coalition of chaos.


----------



## xenon (May 11, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Strong and stable leadership. Coalition of chaos. Strong and stable leadership. Coalition of chaos. Strong and stable leadership. Coalition of chaos.



 Irresponsible. Bankrupting the nation.  Dangerous lefty ideas.  Can't be trusted with the economy.  Bring back foxhunting. 
 I don't have the figures. 

 Brexit, Brexit, Brexit.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 11, 2017)

ChrisD : You're clearly (post #453) one of those swing voters to be targetted like that


----------



## ChrisD (May 12, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> ChrisD : You're clearly (post #453) one of those swing voters to be targetted like that


I joined the Labour Party aged 16 and have moved left politically over the last 40 years!  Locally known as a remainer.  Tories are clearly targeting Exeter as last remaining red bit on the map west of Bristol. They spent £7K on a wrap-around for the local paper last week.  It seems the letters went to over 50's registered for postal votes but beyond that I can't tell.  My partner didn't get one. I must be special target group!


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 12, 2017)

ChrisD said:


> Included in these but so is my wife... but they think I'm head of the household 	  Looking at the envelope I read it as GCHQ.
> View attachment 106486 [] View attachment 106487




If you have no objections I'm going to pass this around?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 12, 2017)




----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


>



Probably close to the absolute nadir of proper ale, though. If the LP were insisting on a return to this sort of shite I might even have to join the tory party.


----------



## kebabking (May 12, 2017)

Watneys Red Label. Hmmm, march on Comrades, march on...


----------



## mikey mikey (May 12, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Probably close to the absolute nadir of proper ale,


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2017)

If you'd suffered the national keg revolution you wouldn't make light of the era of caskocide.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 12, 2017)

An article about trolls for DorsetEye from Keith Ordinary Guy

The GE is coming and it's a party poopers wet dream


----------



## bluescreen (May 12, 2017)

kebabking said:


> Watneys Red Label. Hmmm, march on Comrades, march on...


Red Barrel.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2017)

bluescreen said:


> Red Barrel.


bring on the red revolution


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2017)

ChrisD said:


> Included in these but so is my wife... but they think I'm head of the household 	  Looking at the envelope I read it as GCHQ.
> View attachment 106486 [] View attachment 106487


tell you something, an oxford education plainly mean what once it did. there's grammar fuck-ups throughout, notable 'so christopher, please give me your backing': should be a comma after so. same mistake (p. 1) 'but with your help christopher,'.


----------



## kebabking (May 12, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> bring on the red revolution



Bring on the bucket more like....


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2017)

kebabking said:


> Bring on the bucket more like....


buckets full of tory blood perhaps.


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> buckets full of tory blood perhaps.


That's more like it!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 12, 2017)

brogdale said:


> That's more like it!


hello hello
we are the brogdale boys
hello hello
we are the brogdale boys
and if you are tory scum surrender or you die
we all follow the brogdale


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> hello hello
> we are the brogdale boys
> hello hello
> we are the brogdale boys
> ...


Honoured!


----------



## ChrisD (May 12, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> tell you something, an oxford education plainly mean what once it did. there's grammar fuck-ups throughout, notable 'so christopher, please give me your backing': should be a comma after so. same mistake (p. 1) 'but with your help christopher,'.




Can someone tell me when it became ok to start sentences (and paragraphs) with "AND". Or "BUT" ?  
 I'm same age as Theresa May and clearly written English has developed since I was at school. I was also taught that business letters should have an address to reply to. Always a problem with inserting names from database but using my full name reminds me of being told off at home or school so gives out bad signals.  So far, from recipients I know, it appears to be directed to over 50's with recurring postal votes. Totally misdirected database but even if I was a floating voter I don't think this letter does the job.


----------



## ChrisD (May 12, 2017)

ChrisD said:


> Can someone tell me when it became ok to start sentences (and paragraphs) with "AND". Or "BUT" ?
> .


And another one....... must be ok now.   Gorgeous George is writing like that in Manchester according to leaflet my son was given


----------



## mojo pixy (May 12, 2017)

ChrisD said:


> Can someone tell me when it became ok to start sentences (and paragraphs) with "AND". Or "BUT" ?



It's never correct; _And _should be _Also_, _Additionally_, _As well as this_ etc. _But _should be _However_, _Then again_, _On the other hand_ etc.

But everyone fucking does it. And they all claim it doesn't matter. So I guess it doesn't. Innit.


----------



## MightyTibberton (May 12, 2017)

Is he claiming he's going to be elected President of the World in that leaflet?

It's always been OK to start a sentence with an and or a but. And I'm sticking by that, with loads of links to grammar and dictionary sites if you like. It's possible to do it too much though. And I probably do.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 12, 2017)

Not a fan of George, but this was a zinger.


----------



## Wilf (May 12, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> Is he claiming he's going to be elected President of the World in that leaflet?
> 
> .


 Of course not. Paul Nuttall's already got the job.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 12, 2017)




----------



## mikey mikey (May 12, 2017)

!


----------



## billy_bob (May 12, 2017)

I was within feet of the fucker today   

Must remember to go armed at all times. You never know.


----------



## Who PhD (May 12, 2017)

I'm too late!


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 13, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Strong and stable leadership. Coalition of chaos. Strong and stable leadership. Coalition of chaos. Strong and stable leadership. Coalition of chaos.



The lack of content in everything May says is quite bizarre.


----------



## killer b (May 13, 2017)

it isn't bizarre, it's an effective strategy


----------



## bi0boy (May 13, 2017)

Exactly, who wants weak and unstable government?


----------



## chilango (May 13, 2017)

killer b said:


> it isn't bizarre, it's an effective strategy



...although people are beginning to notice.

Two comments made to me yesterday:

"May isn't saying anything, is she?"

"Actually Corbyn's policies aren't as crazy left-wing as I expected"

I think there is a shift, a tilt, happening. But I doubt it's enough.


----------



## killer b (May 13, 2017)

They've had a good couple if days - blanket coverage of their manifesto on Thursday, and the Chatham house speech yesterday seems to have been well received. But it wont be enough - the Tory lead is so big, May just needs to hold the line, avoid any real debate and repeat the mantra.


----------



## J Ed (May 13, 2017)

killer b said:


> it isn't bizarre, it's an effective strategy



Yes, it is the strategy which was employed very successfully by Obama, Trudeau, Cameron and Clegg.


----------



## killer b (May 13, 2017)

Worked out well for trump too.


----------



## killer b (May 13, 2017)

What's bizarre is that after a decade of election after election  won using this exact technique, anyone finds it even mildly surprising.


----------



## J Ed (May 13, 2017)

killer b said:


> What's bizarre is that after a decade of election after election  won using this exact technique, anyone finds it even mildly surprising.



I think that some of the people who are continually pointing it out recognise that it is an effective strategy but are trying to nullify it by trying to make more people aware of it, which makes some sense. Others do seem genuinely surprised by it though.


----------



## Libertad (May 13, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Exactly, who wants weak and unstable government?



*Raises hand*


----------



## bimble (May 13, 2017)

Overheard in pub last night: lots of young people who are going to be enthusiastically 'voting for Jeremy' , in Lambeth.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2017)

Libertad said:


> *Raises hand*



Also raises hand.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2017)

bimble said:


> Overheard in pub last night: lots of young people who are going to be enthusiastically 'voting for Jeremy' , in Lambeth.



Which - sadly - will mean Chuka, Helen Hayes or Hoey getting returned.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 13, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Which - sadly - will mean Chuka, Helen Hayes or Hoey getting returned.


Can we still return hoey under consumer law?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 13, 2017)

bimble said:


> Overheard in pub last night: lots of young people who are going to be enthusiastically 'voting for Jeremy' , in Lambeth.


Yeh. Check the candidates. May be a different jeremy.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Can we still return hoey under consumer law?



Nope, well past the 28-day statutory "return your faulty goods" date.


----------



## brogdale (May 13, 2017)

Good effort.


----------



## MightyTibberton (May 13, 2017)

I'm in a Lab/Lib marginal.

I just got a Lib Dem leaflet and it's all about Brexit - with a prominent picture of JC wearing his communist hat. I think it's a national rather than a local one. That argument may be somewhat blunted as my MP - Jo Stevens - was one of those who resigned from the Shadow Cabinet over the Brexit vote in Parliament.

I've been door-knocked only by Labour so far. That was also true for the local elections - two seats, one went to Lab one to Libs. It's all anecdotal nonsense, but Labour do seem to have quite an impressively large team of local members where I am.


----------



## 03gills (May 13, 2017)

killer b said:


> Worked out well for trump too.




Didn't Hilary outpoll Trump by about 3 million votes though? And UK general elections aren't exactly a great indicator either, since they allow political parties to secure a majority of seats on a minority of votes. In countries where more proportional voting systems are used, being 'on message' it means diddly squat, since there are no 'marginal' constituencies were a few hundred people can decide an election.


----------



## killer b (May 13, 2017)

03gills said:


> Didn't Hilary outpoll Trump by about 3 million votes though? And UK general elections aren't exactly a great indicator either, since they allow political parties to secure a majority of seats on a minority of votes. In countries where more proportional voting systems are used, being 'on message' it means diddly squat, since there are no 'marginal' constituencies were a few hundred people can decide an election.


That's right - neither we nor the united states have proportional systems, so relentless messaging in marginal constituencies really yields results.


----------



## magneze (May 13, 2017)

Probably worth cross posting this:


> The NHS is thought to have been particularly hard hit because of the antiquated nature of its IT infrastructure. A large part of the organization's systems are still using Windows XP, which is no longer supported by Microsoft, and *Health Secretary Jeremy Hunt cancelled a pricey support package in 2015 as a cost-saving measure.*


74 countries hit by NSA-powered WannaCrypt ransomware backdoor: Emergency fixes emitted by Microsoft for WinXP+

How significant could this be as part of the election?


----------



## teqniq (May 13, 2017)

magneze said:


> Probably worth cross posting this:
> 74 countries hit by NSA-powered WannaCrypt ransomware backdoor: Emergency fixes emitted by Microsoft for WinXP+
> 
> How significant could this be as part of the election?


Probably not as much as it ought to be unfortunately.


----------



## magneze (May 13, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Probably not as much as it ought to be unfortunately.


Guardian headline: May says 'no evidence' NHS patient records compromised
BBC headline: NHS 'must' learn from cyber attack

Yeah, there you go. Nothing to see here. Not the governments fault.


----------



## teqniq (May 13, 2017)

magneze said:


> Guardian headline: May says 'no evidence' NHS patient records compromised
> BBC headline: NHS 'must' learn from cyber attack
> 
> Yeah, there you go. Nothing to see here. Not the governments fault.


Actually thanks for posting that story, I wasn't aware it was due to Hunt cancelling a support package, and the BBC goes with the story that the NHS 'must learn' whilst the NHS is deliberately starved of funds. Still think they should be using a Unix variant though lol.


----------



## teqniq (May 13, 2017)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 13, 2017)

Personality-based "presidential-style" campaigns have been common for ages of course, encouraged by the media as it lets them personalise things and ignore all that boring and difficult policy stuff, but IMO this one is unusual in that (a) it's based all around May - they're actively trying to de-emphasise the rest of the Tory party, and (b) normally there's at least _something_ else, some sort of flagship policy that they can talk about, or a candidate who has some charisma. All that May has is a completely unearned reputation as some sort of tough capable reliable sort i.e. strong and stable - she's fucking awful in interviews, can't speak off-the-cuff or publicly and is actually scared of the public, and can't debate (every other party leader would wipe the floor with her).

Arguably it's all that Tory strategists can try given the material that they have to work with, but without any fallback, a personality-based campaign is vulnerable to people turning it around and making it look hollow and ridiculous. Labour are running a very policy-based campaign now - they're sensibly not emphasising JC, he's there for people who like him but there are other things if you don't. The May reputation still seems strong but reputations on their own are fragile and can break or be broken easily.


----------



## bimble (May 13, 2017)

ah but you're missing the deep subconscious eroticism of May as warrior queen, apparently.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 13, 2017)

bimble said:


> ah but you're missing the deep subconscious eroticism of May as warrior queen, apparently.
> View attachment 106621


"The contents of A N Wilson's wank bank" is reasonably high up on the list of "Things I Really Could Live My Entire Life Without Knowing And Die Happily".


----------



## Pickman's model (May 13, 2017)

bimble said:


> ah but you're missing the deep subconscious eroticism of May as warrior queen, apparently.
> View attachment 106621


Should be a puking smiley


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 13, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Still think they should be using a Unix variant though lol.



It's not easy or cheap to replicate the AD/Exchange/Office environment though. MS is actually pretty good at enterprise-level stuff.


----------



## Wilf (May 13, 2017)

chilango said:


> ...although people are beginning to notice.
> 
> Two comments made to me yesterday:
> 
> ...


I'd expect to see Labour putting on a point or two in the polls over the weekend - and if that works to go for broke about renationalisation (pun only halfway intended).


----------



## teqniq (May 13, 2017)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> It's not easy or cheap to replicate the AD/Exchange/Office environment though. MS is actually pretty good at enterprise-level stuff.


I said on the other thread that i am aware of some of the reasons why there hasn't been a move to a Unix bases OS. This will be one of the ones I am not so aware of.


----------



## hash tag (May 13, 2017)




----------



## mojo pixy (May 13, 2017)

I got a conservative leaflet in the letter box today, I made this as trauma therapy.


----------



## JTG (May 13, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I'd expect to see Labour putting on a point or two in the polls over the weekend - and if that works to go for broke about renationalisation (pun only halfway intended).


Already seen a couple showing Labour on 30-32%, moving up by 2-5 points

Anyway, had a Labour leaflet for Darren Jones in Bristol NW. No mention of JC at all. Front side is funding for schools (some schools asking for fees to cover costs they say) & "best Brexit deal for Britain". Targets Leave & Remain voters, takes the approach that however you voted you surely want to make the best of it.
Reverse side is transport in Bristol, local NHS & DJ's local credentials (he would be the first Bristol NW MP to actually be born, raised & schooled in the constituency).

I actually think it's a good leaflet tbh. Sticks to the issues and doesn't treat us like morons with silly graphs and scary pictures of the opposition.

The Brexit section does say DJ will hold May to account in Westminster which doesn't transmit much belief in Labour's ability to win!


----------



## brogdale (May 13, 2017)

...but...

Political polling


----------



## Who PhD (May 13, 2017)

I'm feeling more confident about Labour. They look like they have at least a fighting chance of kicking that evil cow in the face.


----------



## killer b (May 13, 2017)

Read the article brogdale just linked to - it isnt a hit piece and says some kind things abour corbo. It also points out that they need to make up 30 points in the next month for a majority of 1.


----------



## JTG (May 13, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> kicking that evil cow in the face.


Def Awesome Wells


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 13, 2017)

Given that there really isn't any realistic prospect of a Labour win, even if Corbyn was shoved under a bus right now and replaced by the Second Coming of Tony Blair, the more useful question is what can be achieved politically during and in the aftermath of the election.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2017)

bimble said:


> ah but you're missing the deep subconscious eroticism of May as warrior queen, apparently.
> View attachment 106621



I knew A. N. Wilson was a sick fuck - you've only got to read some of his "history" books to know that - but letching on May?  that's fucking vile!!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> "The contents of A N Wilson's wank bank" is reasonably high up on the list of "Things I Really Could Live My Entire Life Without Knowing And Die Happily".



Say it loud, and say it proud, brother!!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2017)

JTG said:


> Def Awesome Wells



50/50 at the mo.  No wishing cancer on posters yet.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 13, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Given that there really isn't any realistic prospect of a Labour win, even if Corbyn was shoved under a bus right now and replaced by the Second Coming of Tony Blair, the more useful question is what can be achieved politically during and in the aftermath of the election.


I think there is actually a prospect of a Labour win, based on what I was saying a page or so ago; their current campaign, amazingly, is just the sort of thing which could disrupt the very vulnerable Tory one. I'm really surprised to say it but I think it's not unimaginable.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (May 13, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think there is actually a prospect of a Labour win, based on what I was saying a page or so ago; their current campaign, amazingly, is just the sort of thing which could disrupt the very vulnerable Tory one. I'm really surprised to say it but I think it's not unimaginable.


It would please me greatly. What a laugh we could have that the tories just threw away their chances in a completely unsophisticated and unconsidered series of attacks on Corbyn the man.


----------



## J Ed (May 13, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think there is actually a prospect of a Labour win, based on what I was saying a page or so ago; their current campaign, amazingly, is just the sort of thing which could disrupt the very vulnerable Tory one. I'm really surprised to say it but I think it's not unimaginable.



Can't wait to sell rich people's stuff at the bingo


----------



## teqniq (May 13, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think there is actually a prospect of a Labour win, based on what I was saying a page or so ago; their current campaign, amazingly, is just the sort of thing which could disrupt the very vulnerable Tory one. I'm really surprised to say it but I think it's not unimaginable.


Amazingly I have to agree and normally I don't like to give an opinion on such things for fear of jinxing the outcome (I know, I know, superstitious twaddle alert) but it seems to me that they may be in with a chance.


----------



## J Ed (May 13, 2017)

I think it's time for Corbyn to start running on a platform of imprisoning Blair and May


----------



## Hollis (May 13, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think there is actually a prospect of a Labour win, based on what I was saying a page or so ago; their current campaign, amazingly, is just the sort of thing which could disrupt the very vulnerable Tory one. I'm really surprised to say it but I think it's not unimaginable.



Labour are running a strong campaign, and have good policies.  They're also getting to grips with the media (finally).

However, there is fuck all prospect of them winning.

The end-result, as shown in the telegraph poll tomorrow - they'll keep their core vote... disgruntled remainers aren't going to switch to the LibDems, they may do better than the low bar set by Ed Milliband two-years ago in terms of %, but not seats.

Some fundamentals have to change for them to become electable, and i don't think it will change until 2022 at the earliest, when probably with a different leader they may stand a chance.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 13, 2017)

Polls at the moment aren't a good indication; they don't take into account how fragile the Tory (May) campaign is, and how quickly everything it's based on can fall apart.

I'm not a Labour booster, and I don't think it's unlikely that May's team can carry their bullshit long enough to win - all I'm saying is that it's not unbelievable that it could turn around.


----------



## JTG (May 13, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> 50/50 at the mo.  No wishing cancer on posters yet.


Ah come on. Violent fantasies using misogynist language about female politicians and he's keen on Doctor Who. It's nailed on mate


----------



## JTG (May 13, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Polls at the moment aren't a good indication; they don't take into account how fragile the Tory (May) campaign is, and how quickly everything it's based on can fall apart.
> 
> I'm not a Labour booster, and I don't think it's unlikely that May's team can carry their bullshit long enough to win - all I'm saying is that it's not unbelievable that it could turn around.


Another week of steady creep in the polls and some evidence that there is movement away from the Tories and I may believe a chance exists. 

I think what we're seeing at the moment is the last bit of the UKIP vote being squeezed by the Tories and a corresponding slightly smaller move from the Lib Dems/Greens/won't vote into the Labour camp. We need Tory/SNP voters to switch and it aint happening right now


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 13, 2017)

There will be a Tory to Lib Dem switch in some areas, based on Brexit. I don't know overall what that will mean though.


----------



## JTG (May 13, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There will be a Tory to Lib Dem switch in some areas, based on Brexit. I don't know overall what that will mean though.


Well, my dad's probably one of them. He won't vote for Charlotte Leslie cos she was Leave and that usually means he goes Lib Dem - though he said tonight that he liked the Labour leaflet and would vote for them "if he thought it'd be the deciding vote" 

But I don't think there's enough of them in all honesty. Most Tory Remainers are more Tory than they are Remain


----------



## chilango (May 13, 2017)

JTG said:


> ...a corresponding slightly smaller move from the Lib Dems/Greens/won't vote into the Labour camp.



I think I'm seeing a bit of this.

Not sure of the scale of it though.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 13, 2017)

JTG said:


> Well, my dad's probably one of them. He won't vote for Charlotte Leslie cos she was Leave and that usually means he goes Lib Dem - though he said tonight that he liked the Labour leaflet and would vote for them "if he thought it'd be the deciding vote"
> 
> But I don't think there's enough of them in all honesty. Most Tory Remainers are more Tory than they are Remain


Hard to say innit? The Tory voters I know are pretty pro-Europe and mostly just as disillusioned with the party as the Labour voters I know have been with Labour. Richmond should have been a wakeup for the Tories but they don't seem to have taken it into account at all, just banging on with Team May.


----------



## JTG (May 13, 2017)

chilango said:


> I think I'm seeing a bit of this.
> 
> Not sure of the scale of it though.


Well yeah, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data" and all that

But I do feel a lot of my friends who have been very keen on Green/Lib Dem/TUSC in the past are piling into Labour this time. So are my anarcho lot. Call it what you want - pragmatism, desperation, fear... maybe even some of them believe in it all


----------



## chilango (May 13, 2017)

JTG said:


> Well yeah, the plural of "anecdote" is not "data" and all that
> 
> But I do feel a lot of my friends who have been very keen on Green/Lib Dem/TUSC in the past are piling into Labour this time. So are my anarcho lot. Call it what you want - pragmatism, desperation, fear... maybe even some of them believe in it all



Yeah. Another quote from the other night:

"I didn't know how I was going to vote, but they've left me no choice other than to vote Labour."

From a floating LibDem/Green/Labour voter talking about how the election is fast becoming a kind of "line in the sand" moment.


----------



## JTG (May 13, 2017)

chilango said:


> Yeah. Another quote from the other night:
> 
> "I didn't know how I was going to vote, but they've left me no choice other than to vote Labour."
> 
> From a floating LibDem/Green/Labour voter talking about how the election is fast becoming a kind of "line in the sand" moment.


Totally how I see it

Cards on table: have long had anarcho tendencies. If I've cast votes it's generally been for left of Labour candidates. This time - can't bear the thought of a Tory landslide and made my mind up long ago to vote Labour. So I'm one of those.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 13, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I'm feeling more confident about Labour. They look like they have at least a fighting chance of kicking that evil cow in the face.


They aren't going to win, the question is what share of the vote they'll get and how that will inform the battle lines within the party post-GE,


----------



## Dogsauce (May 14, 2017)

killer b said:


> Read the article brogdale just linked to - it isnt a hit piece and says some kind things abour corbo. It also points out that they need to make up 30 points in the next month for a majority of 1.



They might not need an overall majority to form a government, there are other possibilities. SNP are likely to be in their column, for example.

Aside from that, like a few others on this thread I'm seeing friends pitching in for Labour that rarely get involved in politics, organising themselves on Facebook and out leafleting at the university to encourage voter registration for example. I think Labour will have a lot of people on the ground, but I'm not sure whether it will be enough to counter the hostile crap pushed by newspapers or targeted Facebook stuff.


----------



## bimble (May 14, 2017)

Millionaire backer of Vote Leave is offering to fund the campaigns of all the Tory candidates who are contesting labour constituencies where majority of residents voted leave.
Millionaire Brexit donor targets 140 remain MPs in general election
"He said that he was prepared to spend heavily in order to secure “the sovereign future of this independent-minded democracy”.

Here he is openly inviting tory candidates to click on a button and receive £5,000
http://brexitexpress.co.uk/candidates/


Meanwhile, in a clever bit of rebranding:


----------



## Who PhD (May 14, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> They aren't going to win, the question is what share of the vote they'll get and how that will inform the battle lines within the party post-GE,


Very possibly, but that's not a certainty.


----------



## rekil (May 14, 2017)

Telly on.

Liz Kershaw using a sausages analogy to argue against taxing the rich.

Liz Kershaw says "UK plc".

Telly off.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 14, 2017)

Just seen the confirmed list for Doncaster Central. UKIP not standing this time, if all those who voted UKIP in 2015 decide to vote Conservative, Rosie Winterton may be struggling to retain the seat she has held for twenty years.  The total of tory and kipper votes left them only 1,707 behind, Dame Rosie might be pleased to receive the 421 TUSC votes this year.


----------



## roryer (May 14, 2017)

Protect the poor, work for equity, work with our partners in Europe to limit immigration and alleviate the effects on local communities.

Remain (another vote) - Vote Labour?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 14, 2017)

copliker said:


> Telly on.
> 
> Liz Kershaw using a sausages analogy to argue against taxing the rich.
> 
> ...


Liz Kershaw?


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 14, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think there is actually a prospect of a Labour win, based on what I was saying a page or so ago; their current campaign, amazingly, is just the sort of thing which could disrupt the very vulnerable Tory one. I'm really surprised to say it but I think it's not unimaginable.



I'm still sceptical that they can overcome the big boosts the Tories got from their last round of gerrymandering and especially, from absorbing all the UKIP (and BNP et al) voters though, to say nothing of all the dirty money and dirty tricks that'll be in play.

I'm still going to vote for 'Mad Frankie' Field for what that's worth, and agit-prop against the vermin and those they represent is never a waste of effort.


----------



## rekil (May 14, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Liz Kershaw?


She was on Sky news, having another go at trying to make this infantile cobblers work. 



Spoiler: sausages


----------



## killer b (May 14, 2017)

this on Marr today was funny.


----------



## JTG (May 14, 2017)

killer b said:


> this on Marr today was funny.



I think Labour generally have just gone "fuck it" and decided to go down all guns blazing. Kind of enjoying it tbh


----------



## FiFi (May 14, 2017)

JTG said:


> I think Labour generally have just gone "fuck it" and decided to go down all guns blazing. Kind of enjoying it tbh


It's what they should have been doing years ago! 
As for Emily Thornberry, she just went up in my estimation this morning.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 14, 2017)

The last few days have definitely been the best for Labour for some time.


----------



## Wilf (May 14, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> The last few days have definitely been the best for Labour for some time.


I think their good spell is defined by how far behind they have been for so long. They've come up with a number of positive policies, policies that would benefit most people. The job is, obviously, to get those policies out there, to get people to the point where they _know_ what Labour stand for.  For 2 years the story has been Labour are clueless/divided and just about nothing else.  Now they've set out some explicit public sector policies it's probably a kind of honeymoon period - _just getting them out there is positive_. 

I would imagine the next stage will be the Tories putting everything into 'wild eyed Jeremy Corbyn's 70s tribute act will cost every single hard working family £3,000 a year', 'figures produced by a respected economist show that...', 'Labour would raid your pension pot...', you know the story.  However I think Labour's policies have to actually get somewhere in terms of poll and approval ratings before this counter attack kicks in.  Labour are seen as a 'sub-threat' at the moment, but the Tory counter attack will no doubt be primed and ready to roll.


----------



## JTG (May 14, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I think their good spell is defined by how far behind they have been for so long. They've come up with a number of positive policies, policies that would benefit most people. The job is, obviously, to get those policies out there, to get people to the point where they _know_ what Labour stand for.  For 2 years the story has been Labour are clueless/divided and just about nothing else.  Now they've set out some explicit public sector policies it's probably a kind of honeymoon period - _just getting them out there is positive_.
> 
> I would imagine the next stage will be the Tories putting everything into 'wild eyed Jeremy Corbyn's 70s tribute act will cost every single hard working family £3,000 a year', 'figures produced by a respected economist show that...', 'Labour would raid your pension pot...', you know the story.  However I think Labour's policies have to actually get somewhere in terms of poll and approval ratings before this counter attack kicks in.  Labour are seen as a 'sub-threat' at the moment, but the Tory counter attack will no doubt be primed and ready to roll.


I imagine this counter attack would largely serve to shore up the existing Tory vote ie that Labour's apparent 30-34% in the polls consists of people who only needed a little persuading to go back.

The next bit is gonna be a hell of a lot harder for them


----------



## Who PhD (May 14, 2017)

bimble said:


> Millionaire backer of Vote Leave is offering to fund the campaigns of all the Tory candidates who are contesting labour constituencies where majority of residents voted leave.
> Millionaire Brexit donor targets 140 remain MPs in general election
> "He said that he was prepared to spend heavily in order to secure “the sovereign future of this independent-minded democracy”.
> 
> ...


I'd like to think that sort of shit is illegal.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 14, 2017)

copliker said:


> She was on Sky news, having another go at trying to make this infantile cobblers work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh right. I thought she was just a DJ, I didn't realise she had a sideline going on Sky to talk bollocks.


----------



## bi0boy (May 14, 2017)

"bought these pork sausages from morrisons were well of a price 3 for £10 put a full batch on the grill because we had family over for night and smelled good! everyone was impressed of the way it come out of the grill so as soon as everyone took a bite they were complaining about bone in they sausage I opened my and there was bone was very disappointed threw all the packs away and order take out it was very much better"


----------



## agricola (May 14, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I think their good spell is defined by how far behind they have been for so long. They've come up with a number of positive policies, policies that would benefit most people. The job is, obviously, to get those policies out there, to get people to the point where they _know_ what Labour stand for.  For 2 years the story has been Labour are clueless/divided and just about nothing else.  Now they've set out some explicit public sector policies it's probably a kind of honeymoon period - _just getting them out there is positive_.
> 
> I would imagine the next stage will be the Tories putting everything into 'wild eyed Jeremy Corbyn's 70s tribute act will cost every single hard working family £3,000 a year', 'figures produced by a respected economist show that...', 'Labour would raid your pension pot...', you know the story.  However I think Labour's policies have to actually get somewhere in terms of poll and approval ratings before this counter attack kicks in.  Labour are seen as a 'sub-threat' at the moment, but the Tory counter attack will no doubt be primed and ready to roll.



No doubt - but the advantage they have there is that the Tories have actually raided people's pension pots, and have actually cost every single hard working family thousands.  I'd hope that now their policies are out there, they spend half the time promoting them, and the other half pointing out what is likely to happen soon, whose heads it is going to fall on, and who is likely to walk away unharmed because she called an election.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 14, 2017)

JTG said:


> Ah come on. Violent fantasies using misogynist language about female politicians and he's keen on Doctor Who. It's nailed on mate



The prog rock, too.

But no mention of playing bass yet, I do believe.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 14, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I think there is actually a prospect of a Labour win, based on what I was saying a page or so ago; their current campaign, amazingly, is just the sort of thing which could disrupt the very vulnerable Tory one. I'm really surprised to say it but I think it's not unimaginable.



As you say, there's a prospect.  It'd mean a massively-mobilised youth vote on top of a wing and a prayer, but it's plausible given just how fragile both the Tory campaign and May herself as a "worthy" Prime Minister are.  I'd love to see the Tories humbled, defeated even though they had around 85% of print and broadcast media standing behind them and - in many cases - actively propagandising for them.  I'd love it for, apart from anything else, teaching people that once in a generation lesson that if you stand up for what you want, sometimes you get it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 14, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I think it's time for Corbyn to start running on a platform of imprisoning Blair and May



Or at least consulting the CPS as to the possibility of charges (while giving a nod and wink to the international courts).


----------



## bi0boy (May 14, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I think their good spell is defined by how far behind they have been for so long. They've come up with a number of positive policies, policies that would benefit most people. The job is, obviously, to get those policies out there, to get people to the point where they _know_ what Labour stand for.  For 2 years the story has been Labour are clueless/divided and just about nothing else.  Now they've set out some explicit public sector policies it's probably a kind of honeymoon period - _just getting them out there is positive_.



That won't be good enough - it's exactly what Ed Milliband did, chuck out a few policies most people would agree with, but the result was worse than the polls predicted. Labour need a mantra to counter the 'strong and stable', and 'rigged system' isn't it


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 14, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Can't wait to sell rich people's stuff at the bingo



"Legs Eleven, one of Roman  Abramovich's Porsche Cayennes.  What am I bid?"


----------



## treelover (May 14, 2017)

bimble said:


> Overheard in pub last night: lots of young people who are going to be enthusiastically 'voting for Jeremy' , in Lambeth.



But will they actually vote?, I am not sure going by past experience.


----------



## treelover (May 14, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> They might not need an overall majority to form a government, there are other possibilities. SNP are likely to be in their column, for example.
> 
> Aside from that, like a few others on this thread I'm seeing friends pitching in for Labour that rarely get involved in politics, organising themselves on Facebook and out leafleting at the university to encourage voter registration for example. I think Labour will have a lot of people on the ground, but I'm not sure whether it will be enough to counter the hostile crap pushed by newspapers or targeted Facebook stuff.





bimble said:


> Millionaire backer of Vote Leave is offering to fund the campaigns of all the Tory candidates who are contesting labour constituencies where majority of residents voted leave.
> Millionaire Brexit donor targets 140 remain MPs in general election
> "He said that he was prepared to spend heavily in order to secure “the sovereign future of this independent-minded democracy”.
> 
> ...



But what about the many many thousands of blue collar voters who usually vote labour but now say they will vote Tory?


----------



## treelover (May 14, 2017)

killer b said:


> this on Marr today was funny.




She is superb there, very calm and collected, maybe with the pressure off from Progress(for now) they are a bit more relaxed.


----------



## treelover (May 14, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I think their good spell is defined by how far behind they have been for so long. They've come up with a number of positive policies, policies that would benefit most people. The job is, obviously, to get those policies out there, to get people to the point where they _know_ what Labour stand for.  For 2 years the story has been Labour are clueless/divided and just about nothing else.  Now they've set out some explicit public sector policies it's probably a kind of honeymoon period - _just getting them out there is positive_.
> 
> I would imagine the next stage will be the Tories putting everything into 'wild eyed Jeremy Corbyn's 70s tribute act will cost every single hard working family £3,000 a year', 'figures produced by a respected economist show that...', 'Labour would raid your pension pot...', you know the story.  However I think Labour's policies have to actually get somewhere in terms of poll and approval ratings before this counter attack kicks in.  Labour are seen as a 'sub-threat' at the moment, but the Tory counter attack will no doubt be primed and ready to roll.



No mention that the 'resistance' progress, etc has gone quiet(for now) a divided party through the chicken coup is the prime reason the LP lost support in the last year.


----------



## treelover (May 14, 2017)

agricola said:


> No doubt - but the advantage they have there is that the Tories have actually raided people's pension pots, and have actually cost every single hard working family thousands.  I'd hope that now their policies are out there, they spend half the time promoting them, and the other half pointing out what is likely to happen soon, whose heads it is going to fall on, and who is likely to walk away unharmed because she called an election.



Sharp and incisive as ever.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 14, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Given that there really isn't any realistic prospect of a Labour win, even if Corbyn was shoved under a bus right now and replaced by the Second Coming of Tony Blair, the more useful question is what can be achieved politically during and in the aftermath of the election.



It is the more useful question, but most people won't feel ready or willing to discuss it till then. 

I hope to almighty fuck there is a lot more action on the streets.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 14, 2017)

Watch: Thomas Barlow on the Youth Vote in #GE2017 Part II - Real Media - The News You Don't See


----------



## killer b (May 14, 2017)

I don't think I'm ever going to click on a link to a website called _real media - the news you don't see_. Not on purpose anyway.


----------



## treelover (May 14, 2017)

John Mcdonnell on Sky News/Sophie Ridge, is very impressive, seems very relaxed, lost that sharpness, one day he could be PM*

*sadly not England


----------



## agricola (May 14, 2017)

I doubt it will have any impact, but perhaps this is something that deserves a bit more attention (and apologies if its a repost from somewhere else here):



> The Serious Fraud Office has launched an investigation into a company run by a major Conservative donor who is one of the prime minister’s business ambassadors.
> 
> Petrofac, which provides services to the oil and gas industry, is being investigated by the SFO over suspected bribery, corruption and money laundering.
> 
> ...



This seems to be part of the same investigation that Unaoil repeatedly tried to get shut down, via a series of judicial reviews (possibly featuring at least one ex-DPP).


----------



## bimble (May 15, 2017)

Yesterday lunchtime had the surreal experience of being in same cafe as Corbyn and his entourage (The Spoke in Archway). Very weird atmosphere-  I think at least half the people in there were with him but pretending to be everyday punters. Little trendy film-crew waiting outside, so he probably came out and made a speech about consituency stuff. He looked tiny and beige.

edit: 
Ha. this is what was going on: 
Grime artist Jme talked to Jeremy Corbyn about why so many people don't vote


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

Well, you wouldn't catch May hanging out with the hoi poloi, that's for sure.


----------



## Old Spark (May 15, 2017)

Unite have seconded Andrew Murray to assist in the last three weeks of the campaign and donated £2.5 million -GMB and Unison saying their political funds are empty .


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2017)

Is Murray and actual tankie as the breathless internet says?


----------



## kebabking (May 15, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Well, you wouldn't catch May hanging out with the hoi poloi, that's for sure.



It's one of the downsides of being the Home Secretary and then PM of a country with the terrorism threat rated at 'severe', rather than a no-mark geography teacher.

May has a pretty good reputation in her constituency for turning up to stuff and hitting the pavements and knocking doors - but if you think, should he become PM on the 9th June, Corbyn will be hanging around cafés and chatting for hours with randoms you have all the understanding of a housebrick.

Which, I think, we've already established.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

killer b said:


> Is Murray and actual tankie as the breathless internet says?


 Yes. A very well connected one.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 15, 2017)

kebabking said:


> It's one of the downsides of being the Home Secretary and then PM of a country with the terrorism threat rated at 'severe', rather than a no-mark geography teacher.
> 
> May has a pretty good reputation in her constituency for turning up to stuff and hitting the pavements and knocking doors - but if you think, should he become PM on the 9th June, Corbyn will be hanging around cafés and chatting for hours with randoms you have all the understanding of a housebrick.
> 
> Which, I think, we've already established.


no we haven't 

housebricks have a better notion of politics than mikey mikey


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Yes. A very well connected one.


Gosh. He does seem an... unusual appointment.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

killer b said:


> Gosh. He does seem an... unusual appointment.


Milne has pretty similar  politics  - and connections and background. Stalinist CPGB faction Straight Left is where they were both formed.


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2017)

Do you think _OMG He's a Stalinist!_ actually has any meaning to non-trainspotters?


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

killer b said:


> Do you think _OMG He's a Stalinist!_ actually has any meaning to non-trainspotters?


Well, not everyone is under 40 - people know who stalin was, and the image they have of the state he is associated with is not very good.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

kebabking said:


> It's one of the downsides of being the Home Secretary and then PM of a country with the terrorism threat rated at 'severe', rather than a no-mark geography teacher.
> 
> May has a pretty good reputation in her constituency for turning up to stuff and hitting the pavements and knocking doors - but if you think, should he become PM on the 9th June, Corbyn will be hanging around cafés and chatting for hours with randoms you have all the understanding of a housebrick.
> 
> Which, I think, we've already established.



Wow. I never thought you'd go full out in defence of May. 

Of course, there are no Red Tories here, or anywhere.


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2017)

jesus christ.


----------



## kebabking (May 15, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Wow. I never thought you'd go full out in defence of May....



It's not a defence of May, it's an established fact that the CLP in Maidenhead would concede.

I'm not a member of the CLP in Maidenhead, nor do I live there, however I'm able to know these things by a remarkable process called 'reading'. You should try it - or get someone to do it for you.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

So May refuses to meet the public, refuses to answer questions, has what questions she does get checked in advance, has crowds of supporters and party workers instead of the general public etc. etc and then kebabking says "has a pretty good reputation in her constituency for turning up to stuff and hitting the pavements and knocking doors"... Yeah, maybe in Deepest Mailite Blue Country, but get a fucking grip, FFS


----------



## teqniq (May 15, 2017)

You do know what an observation based on facts is don't you?


----------



## bimble (May 15, 2017)

Are you really an English teacher Mikey?


----------



## kebabking (May 15, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> So May refuses to meet the public, refuses to answer questions, has what questions she does get checked in advance, has crowds of supporters and party workers instead of the general public etc. etc and then kebabking says "has a pretty good reputation in her constituency for turning up to stuff and hitting the pavements and knocking doors"... Yeah, maybe in Deepest Mailite Blue Country, but get a fucking grip, FFS



you very obviously fail to grasp the difference between campaign mode - when the observations/criticisms you make are valid (though given her 20% opinion poll lead, i'm not sure _criticism_ is the right word) - and being in 'normal' MP/PM mode.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

Okay, so the point that within her own constituency, and probably amongst her close friends, she is a great turn on thr doorstep, goes to prove fucking what exactly? That comment was in reponse to my observation that she is hard to spot amongst the common people. Unfact that, fucker.


----------



## Shirl (May 15, 2017)

I'm off to see/hear Jeremy at our Town Hall later today. Just saying because it makes me happy


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

bimble said:


> Are you really an English teacher Mikey?



Do you really vote conservative?


----------



## kebabking (May 15, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Okay, so the point that within her own constituency, and probably amongst her close friends, she is a great turn on thr doorstep, goes to prove fucking what exactly. That comment was in reponse to my observation that she is hard to spot amongst the common people. Unfact that, fucker.



why should you think that her constituants are not 'common people'?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

The general public "by and large". Not her fucking constituency you disengenious twat.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

Please, for the love of all that is unholy, _make it stop_ - just let us get back to our moderate/blairite/mayite/jarvis/tory/owenite circle jerk without our machinations and motivations being uncovered by the red hot political intellect and instincts of this modern day orwell.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

Yeah, well. Taking potshots and Jeremy comes at a price these days: sticking up for May like a Tory. Well done, you expert lefties. Great job.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

Boredom is too high a price in this connected day and age i'm afraid.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

Well maybe you could look for stories and videos of being great on the doorstop with the general public. That might cheer you and kebabking up.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

Classic tabs in that odd pic that you've attached for some unfathomable reason.


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Well, not everyone is under 40 - people know who stalin was, and the image they have of the state he is associated with is not very good.


This is true. I'm genuinely baffled.


----------



## rekil (May 15, 2017)

_A Steady Diet Of Pie_


----------



## bimble (May 15, 2017)

Probably a fairly meaningless observation but I'm pretty sure that everyone in corbyn's entourage as spotted yesterday was under 40, most of them under 30.


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Please, for the love of all that is unholy, _make it stop_ - just let us get back to our moderate/blairite/mayite/jarvis/tory/owenite circle jerk without our machinations and motivations being uncovered by the red hot political intellect and instincts of this modern day orwell.


Maybe he could be encouraged to go and campaign in Coventry.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 15, 2017)

bimble said:


> Probably a fairly meaningless observation but I'm pretty sure that everyone in corbyn's entourage as spotted yesterday was under 40, most of them under 30.


yes, yes it is.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 15, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> The general public "by and large". Not her fucking constituency you disengenious twat.


disingenuous.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

kebabking said:


> May has a pretty good reputation in her constituency for turning up to stuff and hitting the pavements and knocking doors -



Theresa May accused of hiding from public at activist-filled event
5 times Theresa May has been accused of avoiding the public when campaigning
Theresa May ‘showing contempt for public’ with refusal to debate - BelfastTelegraph.co.uk

Contempt for the general public?



kebabking said:


> a no-mark geography teacher....hanging around cafés and chatting for hours with randoms



Well, well.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

Theresa May accused of 'hiding' after election event publicly listed as child's party

Randoms here

Theresa May accused of hiding from voters on Bristol visit

Randoms there

Theresa May accused of hiding from voters on Bristol visit

Randoms and no-marks everywhere.

Theresa isimportant and had imprtant jobs, doncha know?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 15, 2017)

"The BBC has rolled over and gives them whatever they want"
Russell Brand and George Monbiot analyse soft focus propaganda bibble.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 15, 2017)

First thing on the Home Office agenda post election might be a big order for these. Low emission engine after all!


----------



## Libertad (May 15, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Well, you wouldn't catch May hanging out with the hoi poloi, that's for sure.



May I be of assistance? You exhibit a certain ignorance by your inclusion of a redundant definite article in this post. 
[/grammarian]


----------



## marty21 (May 15, 2017)

I'm not as engaged as I have been in previous general elections - won't be staying up all night to watch the results come in as I'm driving to Devon the next morning, so I'm going to wake up to whatever result. Part of me thinks it will be a May landslide so if I assume that will happen, then I won't be too shocked when I awake. Part of me thinks she will be disappointed, that she was arrogant to call an election which wasn't due - that the polls are wrong, that there are sizable amount of 'shy' Labour voters and that I'll wake up very surprised at the result.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

Libertad said:


> May I be of assistance? Y



No, thank you. One pedant is quite enough.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 15, 2017)

"To create a formation which will be a living organism, imbued with strong & stable power" Volume 2: Chapter 11 - Mein Kampf


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 15, 2017)

Another disaster for JC

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_zbEsXXkAAJ_W7.jpg


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> "To create a formation which will be a living organism, imbued with strong & stable power" Volume 2: Chapter 11 - Mein Kampf


Why are you quoting Mein Kampf you nazi?


----------



## Raheem (May 15, 2017)

> Raheem likes this



I should probably clarify that this is meant for you, taffboy, rather than Hitler.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 15, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Why are you quoting Mein Kampf you nazi?



Worse than Hitler!


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Why are you quoting Mein Kampf you nazi?



Perhaps because taffboy wished to highlight the similarity in the choice of language between Adolf and Theresa. Read it again.



taffboy gwyrdd said:


> "To create a formation which will be a living organism, imbued with *strong & stable *power" Volume 2: Chapter 11 - Mein Kampf



Now off you pop to tell other posters how thick they are.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

With victories _this easy_ i shall be in position to attack my right/east flank very soon.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)




----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

Could anyone help mikey and taffboy out here?


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

I like strong and stable tables chairs and bicycles. I think lots of people like the idea behind that sort of thing. I don't think i am surrounded by nazi tables chairs and bicycles. Or secret nazis.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 15, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> I like strong and stable tables chairs and bicycles. I think lots of people like the idea behind that sort of thing. I don't think i am surrounded by nazi tables chairs and bicycles.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

Revealed: One in four Labour voters actually want a Tory government



> Those 22 per cent holding their noses to vote Labour are anti-Corbynites who don’t want to see their party wiped out, and confident that Labour can’t win.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

Right, anyone doing canvassing/banking got any views of what they've encountered?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

Great doorstepping skills. Pity about the "no-mark random".[/political expert brick]


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

1) A lie that doorstepping skills were mentioned 2) Why didn't you join?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

My bad. Great "knocking on door skills" there. Oh, and hitting the pavements.



kebabking said:


> It's one of the downsides of being the Home Secretary and then PM of a country with the terrorism threat rated at 'severe', rather than a *no-mark *geography teacher.
> 
> May has a pretty good reputation in her constituency for turning up to stuff and hitting the pavements and knocking doors - but if you think, should he become PM on the 9th June, Corbyn will be hanging around cafés and chatting for hours with *randoms *you have all the understanding of a housebrick.
> 
> Which, I think, we've already established.


----------



## jakethesnake (May 15, 2017)

Good to see the grime community getting behind Corbyn and encouraging youngsters to register to vote.
grime4corbyn


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> My bad. Great "knocking on door skills" there. Oh, and hitting the pavements.


You can't even get it right on the third go.

Is it worth another try?

I note that you didn't touch the second question. I wonder why.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 15, 2017)

This thread is becoming as farcical as the subject it is commenting on.
Fab.


----------



## pesh (May 15, 2017)




----------



## Fingers (May 15, 2017)

Jeremy Corbyn hijacks Theresa May interview to challenge her to TV debate


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)




----------



## bimble (May 15, 2017)

You're wasted here mikey mikey, you're neglecting your true audience, its a shame.


----------



## kebabking (May 15, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Right, anyone doing canvassing/banking got any views of what they've encountered?



first hand from the local government elections, second hand from the GE.

there are _undoubtedly_ some previous abstainers/dissillusioned who are motivated by Corbyn - and they come from every demographic you could point at.

however they are dwarfed by the number he turns off - of those i was able to find who said they would be voting Labour i got the impression that a significant proportion (20%?) were looking for an excuse not to. if it rains, the labour vote will drop like a stone.

the number who said they will be voting Lab is well down on 2010/2015. interestingly, in groups AB it was broadly the same if a little down, but in groups C1, C2 DE it had fallen by between 25 and 45%, with C2 and D at the 45% end of that. 

as ever, and as repeatedly suggested by the polling, the economic and social policies were popular - and were popular with those who voted both LD and Tory in 2010 and 2015 - and much more popular than the tory policies with all groups. the reasons for people deciding to take their votes elsewhere are however, well known.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

kebabking said:


> first hand from the local government elections, second hand from the GE.
> 
> there are _undoubtedly_ some previous abstainers/dissillusioned who are motivated by Corbyn - and they come from every demographic you could point at.
> 
> ...


ta - make up and previous results of town if not busy?


----------



## Raheem (May 15, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Right, anyone doing canvassing/banking got any views of what they've encountered?


I spoke to some people a few days ago who have been doing door-knocking. They said that a they think most of the working class UKIP vote is coming back to Labour (on council estates in particular, they said), but a lot of floaters are going to vote Tory because of Brexit or because they don't think Corbyn could be trusted to mind a market stall. Overall, they think there's not much chance at all. We're the type of constituency that would have Jon Snow saying "Labour really need to win in places like this".

ETA: Is was before the accidental manifesto launch that I spoke to them.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

Raheem said:


> I spoke to some people a few days ago who have been doing door-knocking. They said that a they think most of the working class UKIP vote is coming back to Labour (on council estates in particular, they said), but a lot of floaters are going to vote Tory because of Brexit or because they don't think Corbyn could be trusted to mind a market stall. Overall, they think there's not much chance at all. We're the type of constituency that would have Jon Snow saying "Labour really need to win in places like this".


Ta as well. 

Can we take it as read i'm thanking any future contributions of this type please.


----------



## Wilf (May 15, 2017)

kebabking said:


> as ever, and as repeatedly suggested by the polling, the economic and social policies were popular - and were popular with those who voted both LD and Tory in 2010 and 2015 - and much more popular than the tory policies with all groups. the reasons for people deciding to take their votes elsewhere are however, well known.


Certainly would have been interesting, if the various right wing revolts and attempts to undermine Corbyn hadn't happened, to see where Labour would be now.  I don't take it as read that his public sector/renationalisation stance would have put Labour in the lead, but they would have at least been in the game.


----------



## kebabking (May 15, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> ta - make up and previous results of town if not busy?



door-knocking was Worcester, Kidderminster, Stourport, Bromsgrove, telebank was Kidderminster, Hereford, Bromsgrove and Gloucester. broadly it was concentrating on core support in terms of SE groups and ward, i saw no evidence of any canvassing in the wards/estates that Labour lost in 2010 and didn't regain in 2015.


----------



## emanymton (May 15, 2017)

kebabking said:


> first hand from the local government elections, second hand from the GE.
> 
> there are _undoubtedly_ some previous abstainers/dissillusioned who are motivated by Corbyn - and they come from every demographic you could point at.
> 
> ...


This is probably not something you could get much of an impression of. But when you say people where turned of by him. Did you get a sense if they had had much direct experance of listening to Corbyn or was it just the impression they had from media reports?


----------



## kebabking (May 15, 2017)

emanymton said:


> This is probably not something you could get much of an impression of. But when you say people where turned of by him. Did you get a sense if they had had much direct experance of listening to Corbyn or was it just the impression they had from media reports?



of those who went into it undoubtedly the media reports played a large role - however _pictures_ have, i think, played a big role in the public hostility to him. pictures of him with Adams and McGuinness in the 80's, pictures of him at every anti-war or anti-American rally since Jesus was an apprentice etc..

the uncomfortable truth that doesn't fit into the narrative is that Corbyn has been on the national stage for 30 years, and people of my age (42) and older don't need the media to tell us what his views are, and this is amplified massively amongst previously labour voters.


----------



## emanymton (May 15, 2017)

kebabking said:


> of those who went into it undoubtedly the media reports played a large role - however _pictures_ have, i think, played a big role in the public hostility to him. pictures of him with Adams and McGuinness in the 80's, pictures of him at every anti-war or anti-American rally since Jesus was an apprentice etc..
> 
> the uncomfortable truth that doesn't fit into the narrative is that Corbyn has been on the national stage for 30 years, and people of my age (42) and older don't need the media to tell us what his views are, and this is amplified massively amongst previously labour voters.


Thanks.


----------



## Who PhD (May 15, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Great doorstepping skills. Pity about the "no-mark random".[/political expert brick]



"we're going to do a number..."

You got that right, dear. You're going to do a number on people like her, me, and all the other poor fuckers that live in your shitpit.


----------



## chilango (May 15, 2017)

kebabking said:


> of those who went into it undoubtedly the media reports played a large role - however _pictures_ have, i think, played a big role in the public hostility to him. pictures of him with Adams and McGuinness in the 80's, pictures of him at every anti-war or anti-American rally since Jesus was an apprentice etc..
> 
> the uncomfortable truth that doesn't fit into the narrative is that Corbyn has been on the national stage for 30 years, and people of my age (42) and older don't need the media to tell us what his views are, and this is amplified massively amongst previously labour voters.



Yeah.

As I'm sure I mentioned on one of the threads Corbyn for me is a memory of "trendy lefty" identity politics in the 80s. No matter how he's portrayed now.


----------



## free spirit (May 15, 2017)

The crowd for Corbyn's speech outside the Brudenell Social club in Hyde Park, Leeds this afternoon in the rain. I'd estimate at least 3-4000 people out there, and another 500 or so probably inside. Not bad for 19 hours notice from the first email on the local party list.

Can't say that I can remember any other political leader in my lifetime who could pull in the crowds and enthuse them in this way. Nor one that could manage an entire speech without me disagreeing with something - most can't manage a sentence.

It's going to be an interesting campaign - the mix of corbyn's old style soap box campaigning in as many places as he can combined with social media to enthuse the base of his support to get out there and campaign on the door steps vs Theresa May's stage managed media spun approach.

Fair play to Corbyn though, he's clearly a man on a mission this election. I wonder if he can actually inspire enough of the 'don't vote' generation to vote to prove the pollsters very wrong.

Footnote... Hillary Benn failed to make an appearance or warrant a mention at it despite this being right on the border of his constituency, the Leeds NW candidate was fronting this.


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2017)

Conservatives launch online offensive against Corbyn

Crosby begins his assault.


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2017)

free spirit said:


> The crowd for Corbyn's speech outside the Brudenell Social club in Hyde Park, Leeds this afternoon in the rain. I'd estimate at least 3-4000 people out there, and another 500 or so probably inside. Not bad for 19 hours notice from the first email on the local party list.
> 
> Can't say that I can remember any other political leader in my lifetime who could pull in the crowds and enthuse them in this way. Nor one that could manage an entire speech without me disagreeing with something - most can't manage a sentence.
> 
> ...



The hipster vote is sewn up then, if they do actually vote, one issue, many students will vote in their home towns, diluting their impact.

btw, I wonder if the media will show this, they usually just do close up shots.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

Just how many ways do you want it? 

Loads of people turned up. 
They're all shit.
No  one will care anyway. 
And it won't be on tv.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 15, 2017)

treelover said:


> The hipster vote is sewn up then, if they do actually vote, one issue, many students will vote in their home towns, diluting their impact.
> 
> btw, I wonder if the media will show this, they usually just do close up shots.



Does hipster = any young person to you?


----------



## Raheem (May 15, 2017)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Does hipster = any young person to you?



There are not 3 - 4,000 hipsters in Leeds.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

kebabking said:


> Loads of people turned up.
> They're all shit.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 15, 2017)

treelover said:


> The hipster vote is sewn up then, if they do actually vote, one issue, many students will vote in their home towns, diluting their impact.
> 
> btw, I wonder if the media will show this, they usually just do close up shots.


Is there anyone you DO like? You don't like socialists, you don't like young people...


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

Raheem said:


> There are not 3 - 4,000 hipsters in Leeds.



kebabking calls them "randoms". I think it means something negative cos he also called them shit.


----------



## kebabking (May 15, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> kebabking calls them "randoms". I think it means something negative cos he also called them shit.



You know that reading thing I mentioned to you, I think you need to work a bit harder at it...


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Great doorstepping skills. Pity about the "no-mark random".[/political expert brick]




The lady was highlighting disability benefit cuts, not mental health provision, yet the media, inc Sky news just now have focused on the latter.


----------



## J Ed (May 15, 2017)

treelover said:


> The lady was highlighting disability benefit cuts, not mental health provision, yet the media, inc Sky news just now have focused on the latter.



We have all already decided that the answer to mental health problems is posh people talking about it on the telly. It's also the answer we get about NHS cuts even though it has little to do with that. It has become the go to talking point of neoliberals.


----------



## Who PhD (May 15, 2017)

treelover said:


> Conservatives launch online offensive against Corbyn
> 
> Crosby begins his assault.


Crosby? I thought Tarkin gave him his marching orders after blowing up the holy city of Jedda?


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 15, 2017)

Hilary Benn is an odious shite weasel tbf


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2017)

J Ed said:


> We have all already decided that the answer to mental health problems is posh people talking about it on the telly. It's also the answer we get about NHS cuts even though it has little to do with that. It has become the go to talking point of neoliberals.



I expected it tbh, they cannot acknowledge the casualties of the benefit cuts/reforms without highlighting their own misinformation strategies and demonisation of disabled and sick people which facilitated it.


----------



## Raheem (May 15, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Hilary Benn is an odious shite weasel tbf



Not sure what this is in response to, but I'd put it in the category of comments that don't always need to be relevant.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2017)

treelover said:


> The hipster vote is sewn up then, if they do actually vote, one issue, many students will vote in their home towns, diluting their impact.
> 
> btw, I wonder if the media will show this, they usually just do close up shots.



For fuck's sake give over, Eeyore!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Is there anyone you DO like? You don't like socialists, you don't like young people...



Treelover could almost be Alf Garnett!!


----------



## mikey mikey (May 15, 2017)

So butchersapron call these "shit" and kebabking calls them "randoms"


Meanwhile, kebabking tells us how great at "hitting the pavements" May is



Well she certainly beat a path to the car!


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

Beyond.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 15, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> So butchersapron call these "shit" and kebabking calls them "randoms"
> 
> 
> Meanwhile, kebabking tells us how great at "hitting the pavements" May is
> ...




But...but...but the tories are really popular with the northern working class, we know because southern middle class media types told us.


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

Just...bizarre.


----------



## J Ed (May 15, 2017)

Going to start getting all my news from The Canary it looks fun


----------



## butchersapron (May 15, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Going to start getting all my news from The Canary it looks fun


It’s official: the majority of the public now want a Labour government


----------



## J Ed (May 15, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> It’s official: the majority of the public now want a Labour government



That is actually the worst headline I've seen so far from them. Despicable.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 15, 2017)

J Ed said:


> That is actually the worst headline I've seen so far from them. Despicable.



You are despicable for not wanting it to be true.


----------



## MightyTibberton (May 15, 2017)

Some US-based YouTube coverage. I started watching some of the Young Turks' (the founder is of Turkish heritage) videos when they came up around Trumpo's election. I've never seen them do anything on British domestic politics before - though they mention Brexit from time to time. 

They're branded as "progressives" in the States, and are Bernie Sanders fans - they love the manifesto! The main presenter here is a comedian. I believe they claim to be the biggest political channel on YouTube, though I have absolutely no idea what that means in terms of media impact in this country. (They swear a lot, so be aware of that if you want to watch it and you don't like that sort of language.)


----------



## free spirit (May 15, 2017)

Here's a big benefit from this sort of campaigning - a pretty glowing report about the event, Corbyn's reception etc on the BBC local news and comparing it with Theresa May's stage managed crap at the end as well.

Hard for political reporters to repeat the stuff about him being unpopular when they've just witnessed scenes like that.


----------



## Raheem (May 15, 2017)

free spirit said:


> Hard for political reporters to repeat the stuff about him being unpopular when they've just witnessed scenes like that.



No, but the standard sign-off is "Jeremy Corbyn is very popular with these fanatics, but it remains to be seen how his message will go down with normal people like you and me. Back to you, Huw."


----------



## Dogsauce (May 15, 2017)

treelover said:


> The hipster vote is sewn up then, if they do actually vote, one issue, many students will vote in their home towns, diluting their impact.
> 
> btw, I wonder if the media will show this, they usually just do close up shots.



There is a very active campaign to get students to register, I have a number of friends involved and they're organising flyering and stalls on campus (quite a few of them work on campus, are not young hipster types). Most of the student area is in a seat that is a three-way marginal, currently held by a lib dem, who is quite popular locally due to the usual dogshit politics stuff, and like Farron a bit secretive about his Christianity and a few associated dodgy votes/abstentions.

Quite a few people I know on Facebook just turned up for a look today, the venue for the speech is a very popular and well liked community venue so there was some fascination about corbyn showing up there, not just glassy-eyed fan club members in the crowd. Apparently it was reported on the BBC that supporters had been 'bussed in'


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 15, 2017)

Extraordinary turn out in leeds - mid afternoon on a rainy weekday - well away from the city centre. 
This is not just "momentum die hards" - its a mass movement. 
How many would Ed milliband, or Andy Burnham have got? A few hundred tops - probably less. Tony Blair in 1997 - when he was the golden boy of british politics - would have got nowhere near those numbers. 
Farage did a flying visit to leeds during the brexit campaign - there were a dozen of his entrourage and a few random folk who descended on the pub to call him a cunt (like me )
Meanwhile Teresa May daren't appear in public - yet she is clearly going to win the election. 
So how do we make sense of this? Where does this go?


----------



## mojo pixy (May 16, 2017)

A summer of destruction.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Where does this go?


same question was asked when corbyn got in first time, then second time. There is no doubt that he can draw a crowd in the way that most politicians just cannot, but will that translate into votes? I am not hopeful at all. Momentum haven't had any.

On the crowds thing, normally on a march or a thing the rule is get gone before the labour drones bore off on the stage, never stay for the speeches. Golden rule of preserving sanity. Recon I might stay to listen to iron corbz though, even if I can't vote for his party.

Depends what time the coach home is leaving tbh


----------



## Wilf (May 16, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> So how do we make sense of this? Where does this go?


 I think that's a good question and one I've been interested in for a bit - the disjuncture between a neo-liberal consensus, a capitalist realism, lack of confidence in any kind of alternatives - and apparently large numbers of people willing to do something about it. As such, this isn't intended as a pissing on chips post, but in one sense the answer is that _it's going nowhere_ in the short term. Labour will lose badly and Corbyn will either resign or, ultimately, be forced out.  It will be very difficult to bring these numbers out for anything after the election and Labour's membership numbers are apparently in free fall.

I suppose the real answer in terms of it going nowhere is that it's going nowhere because it's _gone nowhere in the last 18 months_. Rallies, a few campaigns, some attempts at organising beyond the party's traditional places (I _believe_, but haven't seen much of it).  Shoehorning 500,000 into the Labour Party hasn't achieved much, it's just been a dispiriting stand off with the right and, more importantly, it hasn't become something else, a social movement or reinvigorated working class politics. There are signs as to what might have been with the reception Labour's nationalisation policies have had, but they don't seem to be shaking the polls.  Very hard to see where it goes - whilst the press and commentariat will be yapping away about the need for a new generation of Blairites to lead the party, there's neither the energy, personnel or ideas for _that_ to happen.  But equally, it's hard to see an effective social democratic leadership starting the whole thing off again. 

You can sign up for my positive thinking classes at....


----------



## free spirit (May 16, 2017)

Raheem said:


> No, but the standard sign-off is "Jeremy Corbyn is very popular with these fanatics, but it remains to be seen how his message will go down with normal people like you and me. Back to you, Huw."


They did add an extra voiceover in the late news to feed in the tory view on how he's going to fund his plans etc.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 16, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Going to start getting all my news from The Canary it looks fun



Actually I found neither youtube vids from The Canary: they are uploaded to a channel called  B Heard Media

Moreover ITV covered the Corbyn rally in Leeds Huge crowds force road closures as Corbyn visits Leeds

Do you feel that _anything _positive about Corbyn is _Canary-esque_?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 16, 2017)

From _The Canary_, clearly.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 16, 2017)

Now BBC Yorkshire is getting their news from _The Canary_!


----------



## Who PhD (May 16, 2017)

Is that bad? I don't know much about the Canary, but Kerry Anne Mendoza seems ok?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 16, 2017)

I would not even go there mate. Every time it gets mentioned it leads to one huge tangent about its history/management etc. Interestingly it was brought up this time for no real reason at all. Save perhaps that recent events have been reported as positive stories about Corbyn.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 16, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


>




He's lost my vote with this. It should be "debate _with _me". If she is debating Corbyn then he is the subject of the debate, not a participant.

A dismantled NHS, spiralling poverty and a disastrous hard brexit are one thing; creeping Americanisms quite another.


----------



## Mr Retro (May 16, 2017)

Not an expert at these things but it seems to me that Labour are running a very good campaign? 

My local MP is Stella Creasy, who despite some of the issues I have with her seems good. I'm going to vote for her in what appears to be a very safe seat for her anyway.


----------



## Raheem (May 16, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> My local MP is Stella Creasy, who despite some of the issues I have with her seems good. I'm going to vote for her in what appears to be a very safe seat for her anyway.



Whatever issues you think there are with Ms Creasy, I reckon they'll easily iron out.


----------



## Who PhD (May 16, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> I would not even go there mate. Every time it gets mentioned it leads to one huge tangent about its history/management etc. Interestingly it was brought up this time for no real reason at all. Save perhaps that recent events have been reported as positive stories about Corbyn.


Fair enough, but if anyone can link me a discussion that explains why they are dodgy/whatever, I'd be grateful


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 16, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> Not an expert at these things but it seems to me that Labour are running a very good campaign?



Under the circumstances they're doing very well. Corbyn is much more convincing out on the campaign trail than he is in parliament, and May's strategy of saying nothing on policy and simply hoping for a tide of UKIP refugees is playing into his hands. 

If there was a level playing field, Corbyn would walk it. Sadly the tories with their unassailable horde of cantankerous over-65s and their tame media establishment basically get their first 10-20% of the vote for free.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Fair enough, but if anyone can link me a discussion that explains why they are dodgy/whatever, I'd be grateful


plenty here: The Canary, views and discussion...


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 16, 2017)

........ interweb wobbles


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 16, 2017)

You will be AMAZED as journalist exposes the canary's click baity bullshit  in  this JAWDROPING video clip that the government/mainstream media DONT WANT YOU TO SEE ..... 

 nothing here at all other than hyperbole and fact free speculation


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2017)

IT REALLY IS THE SITE THAT WILL TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR.

(oops)


----------



## mikey mikey (May 16, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Fair enough, but if anyone can link me a discussion that explains why they are dodgy/whatever, I'd be grateful



I think it's too late. The thread will be soon buried under pages of "The Canary is shit" tangent until all discussio of Corbyn's recent success is buried.


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

Not really. It is interesting to note that there's SFA coverage of the the Leeds and Hebden bridge thing in the Indy, the Graun and the BBC but plenty of people are sharing it on fb.

e2a although one of the vids is the one from the BBC on here. Can anyone tell me if that's a regional BBC outlet?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 16, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Not really. It is interesting to note that there's SFA coverage of the the Leeds and Hebden bridge thing in the Indy, the Graun and the BBC but plenty of people are sharing it on fb.
> 
> e2a although one of the vids is the one from the BBC on here. Can anyone tell me if that's a regional BBC outlet?


You mean the report in post 690? That looks like report from Look North, BBC regional news show, 6:30-7:00 weekdays (well it used to be anyway)


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

ta


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 16, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Not really. It is interesting to note that there's SFA coverage of the the Leeds and Hebden bridge thing in the Indy, the Graun and the BBC but plenty of people are sharing it on fb.



Most of the campaign stuff turns up on the Election 2017 Live page. Certainly Hebden Bridge  did yesterday.

General election 2017 latest: Labour to launch manifesto - BBC News


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 16, 2017)

The BBC also has Corbyn's speech in Hebden here:

Election 2017, Jeremy Corbyn


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Most of the campaign stuff turns up on the Election 2017 Live page. Certainly Hebden Bridge  did yesterday.
> 
> General election 2017 latest: Labour to launch manifesto - BBC News


Ok thanks but considering the size of the crowds you'd think perhaps it'd be more of a story and maybe merit continued coverage the following day. Or perhaps not.


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2017)

Really - a 4000 crowd needs headlines?


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

Did I say headlines? No, I said coverage and there doesn't seem to be very much of it.


----------



## B.I.G (May 16, 2017)

Lefties in Hebden Bridge


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Did I say headlines? No, I said coverage and there doesn't seem to be very much of it.


You've just been given examples of coverage - coverage which seems to me to be pretty proportional to a regional speech. Beyond that it does then become headlines.


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> Lefties in Hebden Bridge


Oh god, this prick.


----------



## chilango (May 16, 2017)

Where would one get hard copies of party manifestos?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 16, 2017)

chilango said:


> Where would one get hard copies of party manifestos?


Constituency office?


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2017)

chilango said:


> Where would one get hard copies of party manifestos?


Ring your CLP or association or fed thing. Make sure to say it's for use at a school- mock election or something. You'll get loads free. 

edit: But also poss the threat of a visit.


----------



## chilango (May 16, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Ring your CLP or association or fed thing. Make sure to say it's for use at a school- mock election or something. You'll get loads free.
> 
> edit: But also poss the threat of a visit.



Excellent. I can deal with that.


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> You've just been given examples of coverage - coverage which seems to me to be pretty proportional to a regional speech. Beyond that it does then become headlines.


Not really. I am not suggesting at all it should be on the front page of of any given media outlet but perhaps it warrants a mention in the Indy's Election 2017 section, but nothing. There is this photo of the Leeds thing in the Graun





In an article about fat cat tax pledge but no mention of the event itself. I'm glad to see as pointed out earlier that the BBC still has stuff up about it though.

E2a weirdly there's this photo which looks to be from the same event






In this article

The right is getting better at winning elections and the left is getting worse – here's why

which also makes no mention of it.


----------



## B.I.G (May 16, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Oh god, this prick.



You don't think Hebden Bridge is home to more left wing views?

Ok then.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 16, 2017)

Yeah not many tube drivers living there so fewer racists.


----------



## treelover (May 16, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Not really. It is interesting to note that there's SFA coverage of the the Leeds and Hebden bridge thing in the Indy, the Graun and the BBC but plenty of people are sharing it on fb.
> 
> e2a although one of the vids is the one from the BBC on here. Can anyone tell me if that's a regional BBC outlet?



Broadcast media finally began to show the rallies and the scale of them today.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 16, 2017)

im loving Corbyn on the manifesto , he is smashing it


----------



## bimble (May 16, 2017)

Interesting: Analysis of targeted facebook advertising campaigns so far shows that "Only two out of 14 ads heavily used by Labour on Facebook ... so far make any mention of Corbyn" whilst "The Conservatives appear convinced of Corbyn’s value in their own Facebook ads and attack him directly in 10 out of 10 of the ads sent from Conservative Central Office". 
Conservatives launch online offensive against Corbyn


----------



## mikey mikey (May 16, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Really - a 4000 crowd needs headlines?



Talk about strawman.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 16, 2017)

"And we will deliver rail electrification and expansion across the whole country, including Wales and the South West"

Corbynism is Socialist power + Electrification of the whole country. or something that Lenin once sad


----------



## poului (May 16, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> im loving Corbyn on the manifesto , he is smashing it



Yeah, there was nothing cringeworthy about his supporters booing any non-fawning question asked by the press.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 16, 2017)

poului said:


> Yeah, there was nothing cringeworthy about his supporters booing any non-fawning question asked by the press.




did you not see him tell them to calm down then ?


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

The Labour manifesto launch has been broadcast live everywhere. I'll leave the nitty gritty stuff to the experts but this made me smile, shades of the ghost of Farage perchance?



> Ukip has given its initial response to the Labour manifesto – choosing to focus on the element connected to regenerating the pub industry.
> 
> A couple of paragraphs in the manifesto, in the section on local communities, calls for a national review of pubs “to examine the causes for their large-scale demise, as well as establishing a joint taskforce that will consider future sustainability”.
> 
> ...


 

Priorities priorities eh?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2017)

I'd vote labour if they brought back smoking in pubs


----------



## DJWrongspeed (May 16, 2017)

I saw this glaring typo in one section the Labour Manifesto


Strengthen protections for women against unfair redundancy Ð because no one should be penalised for having children.
Ð <-how did this get here?


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2017)

Vikings. They're coming.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 16, 2017)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I saw this glaring typo in one section the Labour Manifesto
> 
> 
> Strengthen protections for women against unfair redundancy Ð because no one should be penalised for having children.
> Ð <-how did this get here?


Supposed to be an en-dash.

It's like writing 'stop' instead of putting a '.' I would guess.


----------



## chilango (May 16, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Vikings. They're coming.



Enforcing the nordic model of social democracy?


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2017)

chilango said:


> Enforcing the nordic model of social democracy?


And _mingling_.

Fuck the EU - we'll do it our own way.


----------



## Mr Retro (May 16, 2017)

All the questions for Labour in interviews now are "what is the exact details of how much this manifesto will cost and how exactly will you pay for it?" 

I don't really give a fuck about that. It's the sentiment I care about and I suspect most people care about?


----------



## chilango (May 16, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> And _mingling_.
> 
> Fuck the EU - we'll do it our own way.



Stop paying the Danegeld, mead for everyone


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

Still repeating the mantra


----------



## RainbowTown (May 16, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> All the questions for Labour in interviews now are "what is the exact details of how much this manifesto will cost and how exactly will you pay for it?"
> 
> I don't really give a fuck about that. It's the sentiment I care about and I suspect most people care about?




Sentiment is all very fine and laudable, but sadly these policies and promises have to be paid for (yes, terrible I know) and I think such questions are on balance legitimate to ask. No matter what political party. However....because all such parties will lie through their teeth when discussing such matters, there's no real need to be that concerned. From the scummy Far Right to the hypocritical Far Left (and all poinst in between) one can always be assured Joe Public will be fleeced one way or t'other. It's the nature of the (political) beast.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Still repeating the mantra
> 
> View attachment 106810


yeah, mantras only do their job if you repeat them. It's going to be the backdrop to everything for the next month.


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

killer b said:


> yeah, mantras only do their job if you repeat them. It's going to be the backdrop to everything for the next month.


True but it sounds fucking lame to me, still that would be because I am never going to vote for the vermin anyway.


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

Heh.


----------



## Mr Retro (May 16, 2017)

RainbowTown said:


> Sentiment is all very fine and laudable, but sadly these policies and promises have to be paid for (yes, terrible I know) and I think such questions are on balance legitimate to ask. No matter what political party. However....because all such parties will lie through their teeth when discussing such matters, there's no real need to be that concerned. From the scummy Far Right to the hypocritical Far Left (and all poinst in between) one can always be assured Joe Public will be fleeced one way or t'other. It's the nature of the (political) beast.


I agree fully. On the whole though I want somebody in place whose first concern is for the majority. Or the many not the few. A tag line I think is very effective.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2017)

I long for the day when we move on to some other shit phrase and _fake news_ is in the dustbin.


----------



## JTG (May 16, 2017)

Entirely unscientific strawpoll of mates on social media who have voted Labour since forever but were wobbling over JC seems to be along the lines of "Labour: fuck yeah" after that launch.

So, that's at least another half dozen votes in the bag then


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 16, 2017)

It's an extremely moderate social democratic platform, taking slightly more money from the rich, addressing a little bit some of the most egregious parts of capitalism. A step up from Blair, no doubt, but hardly the revolutionary rhetoric of Jean-Luc Melenchon. 

Wonder how the BBC/Graun will spin this as 'hard left'.


----------



## Old Spark (May 16, 2017)

And a new railway line from London to Brighton -triffo biffo.


----------



## billy_bob (May 16, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> All the questions for Labour in interviews now are "what is the exact details of how much this manifesto will cost and how exactly will you pay for it?"
> 
> I don't really give a fuck about that. It's the sentiment I care about and I suspect most people care about?



Personally I do give something of a fuck about the costings, but I agree that a lot of people make their political decisions more on gut instinct (I say this from experience of political campaigning - not trying to patronise anyone), so you're probably right that sentiment matters more in a lot of cases.

However, one of the _sentiments _that (regardless of accuracy) often hangs around Labour is the idea that they're good on lots of nice-to-have social touchy-feely stuff but rubbish with the bottom line. So if they do put out proposals that sound great but that they have trouble defending in hard-nosed financial terms, it's more damaging than just being a bit hazy about the finer details at this stage: too many people will feel it confirms that they can't look after the economy.


----------



## Raheem (May 16, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Wonder how the BBC/Graun will spin this as 'hard left'.



They're both focusing on tax rises.


----------



## Brainaddict (May 16, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's an extremely moderate social democratic platform, taking slightly more money from the rich, addressing a little bit some of the most egregious parts of capitalism. A step up from Blair, no doubt, but hardly the revolutionary rhetoric of Jean-Luc Melenchon.
> 
> Wonder how the BBC/Graun will spin this as 'hard left'.


Listening a few minutes ago to R4 they weren't using that term, though were referring to it as a return to heavy state intervention. But their main theme, repeated over and over is "But is it affordable?" They don't actually want to know the answer to that question, they just want to repeat "But is it affordable?". They know that the Tories often win on some bullshit idea of their economic 'competence' versus labour, so they don't have to actually say insulting things - it's just about raising economic competence doubts _ad infinitum_. I don't believe the journos don't know what they're doing either.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 16, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Personally I do give something of a fuck about the costings, but I agree that a lot of people make their political decisions more on gut instinct (I say this from experience of political campaigning - not trying to patronise anyone), so you're probably right that sentiment matters more in a lot of cases.
> 
> However, one of the _sentiments _that (regardless of accuracy) often hangs around Labour is the idea that they're good on lots of nice-to-have social touchy-feely stuff but rubbish with the bottom line. So if they do put out proposals that sound great but that they have trouble defending in hard-nosed financial terms, it's more damaging than just being a bit hazy about the finer details at this stage: too many people will feel it confirms that they can't look after the economy.


One of the things that really frustrate me, that. Now I don't necessarily think this is a good thing (there is a time for govt to borrow and borrow hard), but I would guess that it is a thing that most people won't know – Labour govts borrow less than tory ones.


----------



## billy_bob (May 16, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> One of the things that really frustrate me, that. Now I don't necessarily think this is a good thing (there is a time for govt to borrow and borrow hard), but I would guess that it is a thing that most people won't know – Labour govts borrow less than tory ones.



I agree. But it's another of those areas where sadly Labour hasn't been as good as the other side at defining the narrative and the parameters of what's talked about. The 'no return to boom and bust' thing worked for a brief period, until the next bust remarkably enough. But for at least 30 years they've generally been happy for 'look we can do economics good too just like the big boys in the Tory party' to be their response, rather than undermining the bullshit idea that the Tories are better at it in the first place.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 16, 2017)




----------



## mikey mikey (May 16, 2017)

killer b said:


> I long for the day when we move on to some other shit phrase and _fake news_ is in the dustbin.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Personally I do give something of a fuck about the costings, but I agree that a lot of people make their political decisions more on gut instinct (I say this from experience of political campaigning - not trying to patronise anyone), so you're probably right that sentiment matters more in a lot of cases.
> 
> However, one of the _sentiments _that (regardless of accuracy) often hangs around Labour is the idea that they're good on lots of nice-to-have social touchy-feely stuff but rubbish with the bottom line. So if they do put out proposals that sound great but that they have trouble defending in hard-nosed financial terms, it's more damaging than just being a bit hazy about the finer details at this stage: too many people will feel it confirms that they can't look after the economy.


the cons get a totally unearned rep for economic competence as well, I swear its because they are all wealthy


----------



## butchersapron (May 16, 2017)




----------



## RainbowTown (May 16, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


>




Oh, dear.

Don't know which is more hilariouzzzzz;  the cliched contrivance of the picture itself or the smug smile of the 'look-at-me-oh-aren't-I-so-edgy' guy holding the now passe 'fake newzzzzz' placard.


----------



## NoXion (May 16, 2017)

I hear a lot of talk from the media questioning the costings of the Labour manifesto. Yet I hardly ever hear that same media asking those questions of the Tories. In fact when was the last time that the Tories were asked a hard question concerning finances by a mainstream journalist? Like how despite all their rhetoric about decreasing the deficit (although the Tories seem to have gone a bit quiet about that recently), Tory policies as opposed to manifesto pledges actually increase it. Almost as if shit like that isn't as important as they make it out to be.


----------



## billy_bob (May 16, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> the cons get a totally unearned rep for economic competence as well, I swear its because they are all wealthy



Yes - maybe I should have put 'regardless of accuracy' in bold or something. I don't mean to buy into the untruth that the Tories manage the economy well and Labour don't, but it is a widely held view and Labour have to recognise this in the way they communicate, if they want to challenge it other than by just borrowing the Tories clothes.

e2a (in response to NoXion too): this is one of the problems with a more highminded approach to politics, which Corbyn seems to want to maintain (although I get the feeling McDonnell wouldn't mind being let off the lead now and then). So many aspects of the Tories' record even in the last two years, never mind through history, baldly contradict the narrative that they can be trusted with the finances and it's infuriating not to see them laid into about it more. If the beeb and the Guardian obviously aren't going to do it, I don't know who else Labour think they can leave it to.


----------



## treelover (May 16, 2017)

Mr Retro said:


> All the questions for Labour in interviews now are "what is the exact details of how much this manifesto will cost and how exactly will you pay for it?"
> 
> I don't really give a fuck about that. It's the sentiment I care about and I suspect most people care about?



yes, they are putting down markers, especially if there is another leadership battle post election, people i have spoken to love the manifesto, it has also broken a 30 year hegemony of ideas, etc.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2017)

after miliband you had chukka and co lining up to apologise for trying to win an election from the left (hollow laugh). When they lose this  election it will be used to bury the labour left once and for all if they can.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 16, 2017)




----------



## bimble (May 16, 2017)




----------



## poului (May 16, 2017)

Any credibility in my fleeting thought that this different coverage of Corbyn by the mainstream media in recent days might be because they don't wish for such a big Tory landslide win, in the vain hope it might result in a more compromised Brexit deal? Or am I just going a bit InfoWars with that?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 16, 2017)

'the better-off'

Fuck me, it's a tiny proposal to take a tiny bit more from the rich. Wankers.


----------



## NoXion (May 16, 2017)

bimble said:


> View attachment 106816



Hysterical shit. I bet if an actual communist was in with a chance those twats would have a heart attack.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 16, 2017)

poului said:


> Any credibility in my fleeting thought that this different coverage of Corbyn by the mainstream media in recent days might be because they don't wish for such a big Tory landslide win, in the vain hope it might result in a more compromised Brexit deal? Or am I just going a bit InfoWars with that?


There's no different coverage. Look at the bbc reaction above.


----------



## co-op (May 16, 2017)

poului said:


> Any credibility in my fleeting thought that this different coverage of Corbyn by the mainstream media in recent days might be because they don't wish for such a big Tory landslide win, in the vain hope it might result in a more compromised Brexit deal? Or am I just going a bit InfoWars with that?






Think it's because they think the more they focus on Corbyn the bigger the tory landslide will be. They're moving the coverage away from the policies as they are popular


----------



## Idris2002 (May 16, 2017)

co-op said:


> Think it's because they think the more they focus on Corbyn the bigger the tory landslide will be. They're moving the coverage away from the policies as they are popular


Or because they've forgotten, or never knew, how to actually talk about policies.


----------



## bimble (May 16, 2017)

remember George Osborne is now the editor of evening standard.


----------



## co-op (May 16, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Or because they've forgotten, or never knew, how to actually talk about policies.




Well yes that too of course


----------



## Idris2002 (May 16, 2017)

bimble said:


> remember George Osborne is now the editor of evening standard.


Yes. He "edits" the Evening Standard. That must be it. Editing. Yes.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 16, 2017)

I have (in the past) been led to believe that borrowing for building infrastructure whilst interest rates were low is classed as sound economics?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Hysterical shit. I bet if an actual communist was in with a chance those twats would have a heart attack.




tories are going to win anyway, they're just hammering it in now- anything that is even slightly soc/dec must be crushed.


Sprocket. said:


> I have (in the past) been led to believe that borrowing for building infrastructure whilst interest rates were low is classed as sound economics?


that was before. Now the economy is just like mrs beetons home economics and just the same as running a household budget. Nations credit card remember.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 16, 2017)

Sprocket. said:


> I have (in the past) been led to believe that borrowing for building infrastructure whilst interest rates were low is classed as sound economics?


Particularly when the private sector is reluctant to borrow...

Plus of course governments can borrow at lower rates than anybody else. They have a built-in competitive advantage.


----------



## treelover (May 16, 2017)

> Im on channel 503 BBC News channel Sky A BBC presenter I've been recording the speech and BBC response to JC Manifesto launch. Ben Brown just announced the News following the manifesto speech and apart from the dismissive reporting and the usual BBC bias spin in response. Corby disliked unpopular blar blar rhetoric Ben Brown turned for more derisory comments to Norman Smith. Asking for his take on the response from the public. A women stepped forward to say she thought it was great and was Ben Ben cupped his hand over her breast and pushed her away whilst his hand was still firmly attached!! Seriously!!! And then continued speaking to Norman Smith! Disgusting! A sacking for sure I truely hope theirs lawyers watching and she comes forward!!



from Guardian CIF, anyone see this?


----------



## Plumdaff (May 16, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Particularly when the private sector is reluctant to borrow...
> 
> Plus of course governments can borrow at lower rates than anybody else. They have a built-in competitive advantage.



One of the most frustrating things about our content free public discourse is how shite at capitalism Tory and wider received opinion is.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 16, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> One of the most frustrating things about our content free public discourse is how shite at capitalism Tory and wider received opinion is.


Yep. One of those frustrations comes with talk of the national debt (ie public debt) with no reference at all to levels of private debt. It's meaningless.


----------



## RainbowTown (May 16, 2017)

Chukka, the MiliBLAND brothers and Tony Bliar (a guy who arguably should be serving time for war crimes) are probably plotting right now for the _coup d'etat _of the Labour party, if/when they loss the election. Make no mistake, if you thought Labour has been in disarray these part few years, you ain't seen nothing yet. It's all going to get far, far more grubbier if they lose this election. And, worse still, this will be absolute music to the cackling ears of the loathsome Tories. Tally-ho! 

Enjoy the time, folks, because it's going to be a bumpy ride. Just try and make sure you stay on as long as possible.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2017)

Economist's headline on the manifesto is a beaut, regardless of where you stand on it's content...


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2017)

RainbowTown said:


> the MiliBLAND brothers and Tony Bliar


my god.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2017)

killer b said:


> Economist's headline on the manifesto is a beaut, regardless of where you stand on it's content...
> 
> View attachment 106817


someones having a good day there, bet he was chuffed to bits thinking that one up


----------



## Sprocket. (May 16, 2017)

''Politics is just a function of business now, just a tributary of the great entrepreneurial capitalist system.''

David Hare, playwright.

Sadly any politicians that try to stem or alter the flow of said tributary will be drowned in a flood of disdain.


----------



## RainbowTown (May 16, 2017)

Sprocket. said:


> ''Politics is just a function of business now, just a tributary of the great entrepreneurial capitalist system.''
> 
> David Hare, playwright.
> 
> Sadly any politicians that try to stem or alter the flow of said tributary will be drowned in a lake of disdain.



Ah, *SIR* David Hare.

You mean that David Hare?

Oh, the irony.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 16, 2017)

Craig Murray: May on TV "taking questions" from employees at work in front of their bosses again. Absolutely Stalinist tactic.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 16, 2017)

RainbowTown said:


> Ah, *SIR* David Hare.
> 
> You mean that David Hare?
> 
> Oh, the irony.



'A good line is a good line' Dame Rosie Winterton former Labour Chief Whip!
Mind I bet George Osborne thinks the same!


----------



## RainbowTown (May 16, 2017)

Ain't nothing like a Dame.....................


----------



## mikey mikey (May 16, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> View attachment 106813









I really hope you realise that phone is in selfie mode. Hope. Really hope.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 16, 2017)

free spirit said:


> Hard for political reporters to repeat the stuff about him being unpopular when they've just witnessed scenes like that.



If only...

As William Shirer observed over 80 years ago, media are pretty much immune to taking in anything that contradicts their public stance.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 16, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Not really. It is interesting to note that there's *SFA* coverage of the the Leeds and Hebden bridge thing in the Indy, the Graun and the BBC but plenty of people are sharing it on fb.
> 
> e2a although one of the vids is the one from the BBC on here. Can anyone tell me if that's a regional BBC outlet?



Super Furry Animals?  They always struck me as a bit "Hebden Bridge"!


----------



## free spirit (May 16, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> If only...
> 
> As William Shirer observed over 80 years ago, media are pretty much immune to taking in anything that contradicts their public stance.


This seemed more like a regional reporter managing to slip in a positive (accurate) report that he wanted to make just before the deadline, which was then edited for the later news slot to add in the corporate approved pro-tory bias to the story. The pictures still told a different story about his supposed unpopularity.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 16, 2017)

Corbyn is in pudsey this afternoon. Not a "hipster"/studenty/trendy leftie location by any stretch. Lets see what the turnout is.


----------



## Sprocket. (May 16, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Corbyn is in pudsey this afternoon. Not a "hipster"/studenty/trendy leftie location by any stretch. Lets see what the turnout is.



I wouldn't be surprised if the BBC haven't got a copyright on Pudsey!


----------



## Cid (May 16, 2017)

bimble said:


> View attachment 106816



And here's that article's only mention of London (from a quick scan of the on-line version):



> Attacking a “Britain run for the rich, the elite and the vested interests”, the Labour leader unveiled a £48.7 billion tax raid on high-earners, the City, big businesses, private schools and wealthy individuals who own properties, particularly in London, through offshore trusts in tax havens.


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Super Furry Animals?  They always struck me as a bit "Hebden Bridge"!


That'll teach me to skimp on the typing, funinly enough though I though the same thing but went ahead anyway.


----------



## juice_terry (May 16, 2017)

treelover said:


> from Guardian CIF, anyone see this?


BBC's Ben Brown Slapped After Accidentally Pushing Woman Away By The Breast | HuffPost UK


Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

Conservatives and UKIP call on each other to stand down in Hartlepool General Election fight



> Conservative Group Leader on Hartlepool Borough Council Councillor Ray Martin-Wells wrote to town UKIP Chairman Councillor John Tennant to ask UKIP to get their candidate Phillip Broughton to stand down.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Fez909 (May 16, 2017)

I know he's a millionaire business man, and has been honoured by the Queen, so he's not the _best_ role model for working class people. But this is disappointing:

Steve Gibson declares support for Conservative James Wharton

Grew up where I did. One of the poorest parts, of one of the poorest towns, in the UK. Saw the area decimated by the Tories. Ex-Labour Councillor. Said this only two years ago:



			
				Steve Gibson said:
			
		

> Where was the Government? We have a local MP, James Wharton, who is supposed to be responsible for the Northern Powerhouse - he’s come across as an absolute clown. A joke.
> 
> And he will become accountable at the next election. There are a lot of steelworkers in his constituency and all he’s done is pay lip service to it. “I wished him well when he got elected but if he doesn’t improve, I’ll look to bury him, the town will look to bury him.


And now he comes out in support of the fucking Tories? 

I used to think he was the best chairman in the country, like most boro fans. I've even been defending him this season when everyone else has been laying into him for our shit show of a season. But I wouldn't defend him now. Absolute fucking cunt.


----------



## Wilf (May 16, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> I know he's a millionaire business man, and has been honoured by the Queen, so he's not the _best_ role model for working class people. But this is disappointing:
> 
> Steve Gibson declares support for Conservative James Wharton
> 
> ...


FFS!


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 16, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> I know he's a millionaire business man, and has been honoured by the Queen, so he's not the _best_ role model for working class people. But this is disappointing:
> 
> Steve Gibson declares support for Conservative James Wharton
> 
> ...


Email him and tell him what you think


----------



## Bingo (May 16, 2017)

Hahaha so funny, I was just sitting on my step eating my tea in Leeds, Labour leafletter steps up... chatting for a bit.

I just started slagging off Rachel Reeves (my current Labour MP, bit of a slimeball Blairite) and guess who else steps into my yard!! Had a chat for a few mins... She was on the defensive! 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




=P

She claimed that she's never met Tony Blair!!


----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)




----------



## teqniq (May 16, 2017)

Not normally a massive fan of Marina Hyde but... 

In Stoke, May marches on with familiar neuron-crushing dullness | Marina Hyde


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 16, 2017)

Probably nothing in the great scheme of things but labour is recording its best polling since the campaign started - 

"Panelbase have topline figures of CON 47%(-1), LAB 33%(+2), LDEM 7%(-1), UKIP 5%(nc)"

from here UK Polling Report

Only one poll and all that - but there is a steady upcreep for labour. Something to slilghtly warm the cockles before you go to bed.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 16, 2017)

and speaking of warmed cockles - Are the lib dems going to do even worse than last time?


----------



## JTG (May 16, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Probably nothing in the great scheme of things but labour is recording its best polling since the campaign started -
> 
> "Panelbase have topline figures of CON 47%(-1), LAB 33%(+2), LDEM 7%(-1), UKIP 5%(nc)"
> 
> ...


I've been following Britain Elects' poll of polls on Twitter and there has been a steady creep towards their 2015 figure over the last week. Only a point or two off it last I saw. Still miles away from the Tories but things are weird, we know that


----------



## redsquirrel (May 16, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> and speaking of warmed cockles - Are the lib dems going to do even worse than last time?


Fingers crossed. 



JTG said:


> I've been following Britain Elects' poll of polls on Twitter and there has been a steady creep towards their 2015 figure over the last week. Only a point or two off it last I saw. Still miles away from the Tories but things are weird, we know that


I think that's the real question this election. Can the LP increase it's share of the vote compared to 2015, and if so by how much?


----------



## JTG (May 16, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> and speaking of warmed cockles - Are the lib dems going to do even worse than last time?


I would fucking love it if they lost Sheffield Hallam. Love it


----------



## JTG (May 16, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Fingers crossed.
> 
> 
> I think that's the real question this election. Can the LP increase it's share of the vote compared to 2015, and if so by how much?


I reckon they could even reach their winning percentage from 2005 - which was, what, 34/35%?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 16, 2017)

JTG said:


> I reckon they could even reach their winning percentage from 2005 - which was, what, 34/35%?


35.2%. I agree, it's not fantastic to imagine such a scenario. Though my current prediction would be somewhere between 30 and 35 %.

Incidentally that would also be higher than their vote share in 92, 87 and 83, so if they could beat, or equal that, they would have obtained their highest vote share for the last 34 years, bar the two huge wins in 97 and 01.


----------



## Cid (May 16, 2017)

JTG said:


> I would fucking love it if they lost Sheffield Hallam. Love it



Not that likely though... I think it has an element of that 'labour party should be centrist' vote in there. The kind of people who are talking about voting LD after the betrayal of Corbyn, because they might form a coalition, which might act as a brake on the Tories. Totally pragmatic. They're definitely very pragmatic people.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 16, 2017)

JTG said:


> I would fucking love it if they lost Sheffield Hallam. Love it


That would be great - I'd even vote Labour their to try and help it happen - but I'm with Cid, if they couldn't take it in 2015 they won't take it now. More likely they'll be a whole load of voters that move (back) to the LDs.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 16, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Incidentally that would also be higher than their vote share in 92, 87 and 83, so if they could beat, or equal that, they would have obtained their highest vote share for the last 34 years, bar the two huge wins in 97 and 01.



So highest vote share in 16 years then? I mean, there's cherry-picking data and then there's the quoted post.

Anyway, looks like for this election anyway it's largely back to two parties in England. That vote share with the Tories in the mid-to-high 40s is not good.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 16, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh fuck off you Tory bore, you don't even know a joke when you see one. But I'd sell off the public schools even if I thought it'd lose money.


A (former?) Plaid Cymru bore not a Tory bore danny


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 17, 2017)

So TM's handlers and spinscum dreamed up a thing called a "telephone town-hall".

In the US, the town-hall meet is a standard means of politicians encountering electors, it can actually get pretty brutal at times.

"A telephone townhall" is not a townhall in the least. It is a spin/lie for the fucktards.

happily, not everyone was taken in

Theresa May Announces 'Telephone Town Hall' On Twitter, Responses Are Brutal | HuffPost UK


----------



## Rimbaud (May 17, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Conservatives and UKIP call on each other to stand down in Hartlepool General Election fight



I know that John Tennant pretty well, incidentally, he is the elder brother of someone who was in my class at primary school who I still see around the local pubs whenever I go home. (in Gateshead, not Hartlepool) He is an absolute lunatic, but actually a kind of pitiable figure, I guess he is somewhere high up on the Autistic spectrum. He used to always try and hang out with his younger brother's friends cos he had none of his own and he would always end up aggravating people and turning them against him. Doesn't surprise me at all that the Tories failed to strike a deal with him.

e2a: He is actually only about 30 years old but his hair started to go grey when he was in his mid 20s... I did a search for him to check if the Hartlepool John Tennant was the same one, and sure enough it is, but he looks like he is in his 40s already. He is only a year older than me, shows what joining UKIP does to your body and soul.


----------



## Rimbaud (May 17, 2017)

JTG said:


> I've been following Britain Elects' poll of polls on Twitter and there has been a steady creep towards their 2015 figure over the last week. Only a point or two off it last I saw. Still miles away from the Tories but things are weird, we know that



Probably already surpassed it actually. The actual vote share in 2015 was 30.4%, which the polling overestimated. Changes have been made in the way the data is compiled to account for this, so the polling for Corbyn, which is above 30.4%, is probably accurate while the 2015 polling wasn't.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 17, 2017)

Trouble is though, share of the vote becomes less important when Tories are hoovering up almost all of the UKIP votes from last time


----------



## J Ed (May 17, 2017)

JTG said:


> I would fucking love it if they lost Sheffield Hallam. Love it



If it was ever, ever going to happen it would have been in 2015. Before it was yellow Tory it was Tory Tory. Take a walk around Sheffield Hallam and you will see why... it's much easier to imagine a Corbyn-led Labour government with a big majority than it is to imagine Sheffield Hallam being won by Labour.


----------



## Rimbaud (May 17, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Trouble is though, share of the vote becomes less important when Tories are hoovering up almost all of the UKIP votes from last time



Aye. They'll probably get fewer seats even if they get their highest vote share since 1997.

However, there are a lot of things shaping up to be a clusterfuck of epic proportions over the next year, and are largely irreversible. (chiefly, signs that the housing market may be about to crash and looming economic crisis, Brexit-related shambles, possibility of the UK breaking up, and the social effects of austerity and inequality of opportunity coming home to roost) May's popularity is not really deserved and is only made possible by a compliant media, it is unlikely to last long after the election. So while I still obviously hope for a Labour victory, it may actually, in the long run, be better if the Tories win this election, otherwise Labour will be blamed for all the shit that's happening. If they do well enough for the left to remain in control of the party, they are well positioned for victory in 2022. (although,of course, a lot could happen in that time...)


----------



## Who PhD (May 17, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I think that's a good question and one I've been interested in for a bit - the disjuncture between a neo-liberal consensus, a capitalist realism, lack of confidence in any kind of alternatives - and apparently large numbers of people willing to do something about it. As such, this isn't intended as a pissing on chips post, but in one sense the answer is that _it's going nowhere_ in the short term. Labour will lose badly and Corbyn will either resign or, ultimately, be forced out.  It will be very difficult to bring these numbers out for anything after the election and Labour's membership numbers are apparently in free fall.
> 
> I suppose the real answer in terms of it going nowhere is that it's going nowhere because it's _gone nowhere in the last 18 months_. Rallies, a few campaigns, some attempts at organising beyond the party's traditional places (I _believe_, but haven't seen much of it).  Shoehorning 500,000 into the Labour Party hasn't achieved much, it's just been a dispiriting stand off with the right and, more importantly, it hasn't become something else, a social movement or reinvigorated working class politics. There are signs as to what might have been with the reception Labour's nationalisation policies have had, but they don't seem to be shaking the polls.  Very hard to see where it goes - whilst the press and commentariat will be yapping away about the need for a new generation of Blairites to lead the party, there's neither the energy, personnel or ideas for _that_ to happen.  But equally, it's hard to see an effective social democratic leadership starting the whole thing off again.
> 
> You can sign up for my positive thinking classes at....


 I see no evidence their numbers are in freefall; they have a considerable membership and seem reasonably popular. Corbyn has a better chance than the cynics here will ever credit. I think these people just want a labour loss because they mistakenly believe that so advance class consciousness. it won't


----------



## redsquirrel (May 17, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Trouble is though, share of the vote becomes less important when Tories are hoovering up almost all of the UKIP votes from last time


That can work both for and against Labour. For example a significant number of UKIP voters going back to the Tories in safe Tory seats will give them a great vote share but doesn't really benefit them greatly.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 17, 2017)

When things go to shit over the next few years it will just be sold as a need for a 'strong and stable' government to sort things out, so probably no opening for Labour. The press as it stands won't hold the Tories to account for making a mess of things, it's not like they get held to account for spending more than Labour, whacking up VAT (while cutting top tax) and ruining the health service. No accountability.


----------



## Rimbaud (May 17, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> When things go to shit over the next few years it will just be sold as a need for a 'strong and stable' government to sort things out, so probably no opening for Labour. The press as it stands won't hold the Tories to account for making a mess of things, it's not like they get held to account for spending more than Labour, whacking up VAT (while cutting top tax) and ruining the health service. No accountability.



The press will always back the Tories, but will the public buy the "Strong and Stable Leadership" thing when they see a decade of Tory rule ending in farce?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 17, 2017)

Rimbaud said:


> The press will always back the Tories, but will the public buy the "Strong and Stable Leadership" thing when they see a decade of Tory rule ending in farce?



It's already in ruins in a lot of places. Maybe people in Tory constituencies don't see the damage, don't see the higher numbers of people on the streets (very noticeable in cities) or the glass scattered on the pavement where some poor sod has had their car window put through by thieves, don't have the boarded shops, crowded casualty receptions. Maybe where they live the police bother to turn up if someone breaks in. Maybe their parks aren't furnished with a few pieces of broken and dangerous play equipment. Maybe their councils can still afford to pay someone to clean up the dogshit.  Do they not see these things, or are they wilfully blind to them?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 17, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Maybe their councils can still afford to pay someone to clean up the dogshit.  Do they not see these things, or are they wilfully blind to them?


And when their councils do talk about having to make cuts or raise taxes they get a handout from central government.


----------



## Rimbaud (May 17, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> It's already in ruins in a lot of places. Maybe people in Tory constituencies don't see the damage, don't see the higher numbers of people on the streets (very noticeable in cities) or the glass scattered on the pavement where some poor sod has had their car window put through by thieves, don't have the boarded shops, crowded casualty receptions. Maybe where they live the police bother to turn up if someone breaks in. Maybe their parks aren't furnished with a few pieces of broken and dangerous play equipment. Maybe their councils can still afford to pay someone to clean up the dogshit.  Do they not see these things, or are they wilfully blind to them?



Elderly retired people, the wealthy, and people in rural areas, do not see these things. I was shocked to find that my Tory voting Grandpa genuinely doesn't understand how hard things have gotten and doesn't know why I just don't get a stable job then buy a house then settle down. The grey vote in particular is quite disconnected from the present reality. In rural areas this will be even more pronounced. Rich people in general are detached from reality.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 17, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> When things go to shit over the next few years it will just be sold as a need for a 'strong and stable' government to sort things out, so probably no opening for Labour. The press as it stands won't hold the Tories to account for making a mess of things, it's not like they get held to account for spending more than Labour, whacking up VAT (while cutting top tax) and ruining the health service. No accountability.



We dont know how things are going to pan out nor how people will react. Things change. Opinions change. I think we may well see become ever more divisive with england in particular split between daily mail-esque tory land and labours social democracy. 
One thing corbyn's labour may achieve - and arguably already has - is to open up political space on the left, forcing the tories to concede ideological ground  in order to keep thier w/c vote.


----------



## kebabking (May 17, 2017)

Rimbaud said:


> ...Rich people in general are detached from reality.



rich people are detatched from poor peoples reality, just as poor people are detached from rich peoples reality - being poor doesn't mean you are more 'real', it just means you are poor.

if you own your own home, don't receive or depend on benefits, and have a bit of cash in unit trusts or private pensions (for example), then the last decade has been, at the least, not bad. pay hasn't quite kept pace with inflation which may have had some impact on your lifestyle, but the above inflation increase in the value of your major asset (your home), as well as the above inflation increase in the value of your investment assets have covered that and more.

such people, and there are lots of them, are not inflatable, or the product of 3D printing, or the invention of an algorithm, they are as real as you - its just that their circumstances are different, and therefore their perception is different, to yours.


----------



## Rimbaud (May 17, 2017)

kebabking said:


> rich people are detatched from poor peoples reality, just as poor people are detached from rich peoples reality - being poor doesn't mean you are more 'real', it just means you are poor.
> 
> if you own your own home, don't receive or depend on benefits, and have a bit of cash in unit trusts or private pensions (for example), then the last decade has been, at the least, not bad. pay hasn't quite kept pace with inflation which may have had some impact on your lifestyle, but the above inflation increase in the value of your major asset (your home), as well as the above inflation increase in the value of your investment assets have covered that and more.
> 
> such people, and there are lots of them, are not inflatable, or the product of 3D printing, or the invention of an algorithm, they are as real as you - its just that their circumstances are different, and therefore their perception is different, to yours.



Fair enough - they are insulated from a lot of shit may be a better way to phrase it.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 17, 2017)

poor people aren't detatched from the reality of the rich. We tend to be exposed to their reality, their normal all the time. Can we say the same is true in reverse?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 17, 2017)

There have been a number of studies that have shown that the rich overestimate things like the median wage, average wage, etc. Not heard of the opposite.


----------



## Wilf (May 17, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I see no evidence their numbers are in freefall; they have a considerable membership and seem reasonably popular. Corbyn has a better chance than the cynics here will ever credit. I think these people just want a labour loss because they mistakenly believe that so advance class consciousness. it won't


Labour membership expected to fall below half a million


----------



## tim (May 17, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Corbyn is in pudsey this afternoon. Not a "hipster"/studenty/trendy leftie location by any stretch. Lets see what the turnout is.








Exciting need for Pudsey


----------



## Who PhD (May 17, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Labour membership expected to fall below half a million


"expected to fall" isn't evidence


----------



## Wilf (May 17, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I see no evidence their numbers are in freefall; they have a considerable membership and seem reasonably popular. Corbyn has a better chance than the cynics here will ever credit. I think these people just want a labour loss because they mistakenly believe that so advance class consciousness. it won't


... and if the rest of your post is aimed at/includes me, you're wrong. I'm certainly to the left of labour, but don't want them to lose. My line is that there was potential there, but it hasn't been achieved.


----------



## bimble (May 17, 2017)

This is what the conservatives have prepared for their press conference today, not their own manifesto yet but this document.


----------



## Wilf (May 17, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> "expected to fall" isn't evidence


I don't think you've read beyond the headline - it _has_ fallen by 26,000. They are _speculating_ about a further fall due to the numbers in arrears.


----------



## kebabking (May 17, 2017)

tim said:


> Exciting need for Pudsey



its a lovely hotel by the way - The George in Penrith, Cumbria. 

food is excellent, beer is good, and the general feel/hospitality of the place is just superb. very reasonable rates as well...


----------



## Rimbaud (May 17, 2017)

Rimbaud said:


> Probably already surpassed it actually. The actual vote share in 2015 was 30.4%, which the polling overestimated. Changes have been made in the way the data is compiled to account for this, so the polling for Corbyn, which is above 30.4%, is probably accurate while the 2015 polling wasn't.



Actually, while I am aware that the methods of compiling data have changed, I can't find any information on how exactly - does anyone know this?

If it has been weighted to account for the possibility that Labour turnout tends to be lower than polls suggest, it could be that the polls are wrong in the other direction this time. Labour voters seem more highly motivated this time, so changes made after 2015 could be based on an assumption that no longer holds true.


----------



## Wilf (May 17, 2017)

kebabking said:


> its a lovely hotel by the way - The George in Penrith, Cumbria.
> 
> food is excellent, beer is good, and the general feel/hospitality of the place is just superb. very reasonable rates as well...


Tripadviser >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## redsquirrel (May 17, 2017)

Rimbaud said:


> Actually, while I am aware that the methods of compiling data have changed, I can't find any information on how exactly - does anyone know this?
> 
> If it has been weighted to account for the possibility that Labour turnout tends to be lower than polls suggest, it could be that the polls are wrong in the other direction this time. Labour voters seem more highly motivated this time, so changes made after 2015 could be based on an assumption that no longer holds true.


Depends on polling company I think. Pretty much all made changes after 2015 but IIRC different companies made slightly different changes. Not sure if Britain Elects has made some changes to account for the 2015 inaccuracies, probably not as you'd then be double counting.

EDIT: recap here.


> Since then polling companies have made changes to try and address that problem. Different companies have taken different approaches. The most significant though are a mix of adding new controls on samples by education and interest in politics and changes to turnout models. We obviously won’t know until the election has finished whether these have worked or not.


----------



## Rimbaud (May 17, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I don't think you've read beyond the headline - it _has_ fallen by 26,000. They are _speculating_ about a further fall due to the numbers in arrears.



Quite a small fall compared to the huge increase since 2015 though. I reckon those in arrears are likely to be students or people with unstable income who can't have direct debits because it keeps making them overdrawn.


----------



## The39thStep (May 17, 2017)

Rimbaud said:


> Elderly retired people, the wealthy, and people in rural areas, do not see these things. I was shocked to find that my Tory voting Grandpa genuinely doesn't understand how hard things have gotten and doesn't know why I just don't get a stable job then buy a house then settle down. The grey vote in particular is quite disconnected from the present reality. In rural areas this will be even more pronounced. Rich people in general are detached from reality.


Most recent surveys actually show that younger people are more economically conservative , whilst being more liberal on other issues, than older people.


----------



## kebabking (May 17, 2017)

Rimbaud said:


> Actually, while I am aware that the methods of compiling data have changed, I can't find any information on how exactly - does anyone know this?
> 
> If it has been weighted to account for the possibility that Labour turnout tends to be lower than polls suggest, it could be that the polls are wrong in the other direction this time. Labour voters seem more highly motivated this time, so changes made after 2015 could be based on an assumption that no longer holds true.



might be worth sticking this in the political polling thread - its where the nerds hang out - i'm interested as well as only is over-correction a known phenomena in pretty much every field, so why not polling? but i'm a bit mystied about how you reach people (in 2015 it was the 'shy tory') who simply don't engage...


----------



## redsquirrel (May 17, 2017)

Rimbaud said:


> Quite a small fall compared to the huge increase since 2015 though. I reckon those in arrears are likely to be students or people with unstable income who can't have direct debits because it keeps making them overdrawn.


It's definitely poor reporting to imply that those in arrears are leavers, we have a bunch of member becoming "unfinancial" every month for our union branch. Get neatly all of them back once they've sorted out direct debit/credit card/whatever, I should imagine such a scenario is seen in pretty every party/group/club


----------



## Wilf (May 17, 2017)

Rimbaud said:


> Quite a small fall compared to the huge increase since 2015 though. I reckon those in arrears are likely to be students or people with unstable income who can't have direct debits because it keeps making them overdrawn.


Perhaps I was overdoing it with 'freefall', though it is certainly falling.  Yes, massive growth since 2015, which for me is still bewilderingly impressive, but also very frustrating in the sense of not translating into ... much.  Interesting to see what happens after the election. The 2015 result saw most of the centre left parties increasing their membership.  Have a feeling that won't happen this time, at least for Labour.


----------



## bi0boy (May 17, 2017)

Rimbaud said:


> So while I still obviously hope for a Labour victory, it may actually, in the long run, be better if the Tories win this election, otherwise Labour will be blamed for all the shit that's happening. If they do well enough for the left to remain in control of the party, they are well positioned for victory in 2022. (although,of course, a lot could happen in that time...)



That's what people said in 2010, and 2015. The implication being that Labour is only capable of taking over from a successful Tory government and holding its head above water until things fuck up again.


----------



## Rimbaud (May 17, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> That's what people said in 2010, and 2015. The implication being that Labour is only capable of taking over from a successful Tory government and holding it's head above water until things fuck up again.



The situation today is not really comparable to the last 2 elections - Labour is emerging from a civil war, and whoever wins this has to deal with Brexit. Having time to get their internal house in order while letting the Tories reap what they sowed would be no bad thing for Labour in the long term.


----------



## chilango (May 17, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> poor people aren't detatched from the reality of the rich. We tend to be exposed to their reality, their normal all the time. Can we say the same is true in reverse?



I'm not sure that's true.

When I've stumbled into the lives of the actually wealthy from time to time I've found it pretty gobsmacking.

My parents consider themselves comfortably middle-class, they vote Tory. They freely admit they have no clue "how the poor live". They get their views largely from the Daily Mail these days. 
I took them around some of the bucolic bits of the home counties recently. They found it really really shocking. 

We know that the rich have this different reality, but until you visit their schools, their clubs, their yachts, their homes I don't think the scale of it in comparison to us is comprehendable.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 17, 2017)

chilango said:


> I'm not sure that's true.
> 
> When I've stumbled into the lives of the actually wealthy from time to time I've found it pretty gobsmacking.
> 
> ...


I used to deliver wine coolers. When I visited a place that had a bathroom bigger than my rented room I was...well gobsmacked was about right. With perhaps just a soupcon of resentment 
but you are talking about the difference between p/b level wealth and h/b. Yes that can be suprising.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 17, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Most recent surveys actually show that younger people are more economically conservative , whilst being more liberal on other issues, than older people.


_
Indeed, the younger generation are really into neo-liberalism. They love the free-market, austerity and tax breaks for the highest earners and really dig cutting benefits for the disabled. Zero hour contracts are groovy and so is having the 8th highest university tuition fees in the world. They fucking love it.The lot of it. I have the data. 

Remember that young folk are only irrelevant when they turn up to Corbyn rallies. In such cases they're just naive and probably won't vote._


----------



## chilango (May 17, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I used to deliver wine coolers. When I visited a place that had a bathroom bigger than my rented room I was...well gobsmacked was about right. With perhaps just a soupcon of resentment
> but you are talking about the difference between p/b level wealth and h/b. Yes that can be suprising.



Yeah. I've visited houses where you could fit my entire two bed terrace inside their entrance hall.  Not stately homes or anything either. Just houses. I've visited schools with their golf-courses. I knwo of one that has a "winter campus". On _piste_ in Switzerland. I occassionally have to deal with Old Etonians and the like.

Fuck me. It's another world.

It's not "middle-class bastards" with university degrees and mortgages. It's something else.


----------



## Who PhD (May 17, 2017)

bimble said:


> This is what the conservatives have prepared for their press conference today, not their own manifesto yet but this document. View attachment 106858


So the Tories are handing, to their dark acolytes and lickspittles, a little red book?


----------



## Who PhD (May 17, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I don't think you've read beyond the headline - it _has_ fallen by 26,000. They are _speculating_ about a further fall due to the numbers in arrears.


But this is just speculation? 26k, while not ideal, is not exactly what I'd call freefall


----------



## Wilf (May 17, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> But this is just speculation? 26k, while not ideal, is not exactly what I'd call freefall


26k is real, the rest is speculation, let's stick with that.   But if Labour membership were to stabilise around say something over 450,000 I'd admit that was still impressive.  My point is about what those people have been _doing_ over the last 18 months - or perhaps what the Corbyn team/momentum/local corbynistas have set up.  This is probably the wrong thread for all that, but it does have a bearing on the election campaign.


----------



## The39thStep (May 17, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> _Indeed, the younger generation are really into neo-liberalism. They love the free-market, austerity and tax breaks for the highest earners and really dig cutting benefits for the disabled. Zero hour contracts are groovy and so is having the 8th highest university tuition fees in the world. They fucking love it.The lot of it. I have the data.
> 
> Remember that young folk are only irrelevant when they turn up to Corbyn rallies. In such cases they're just naive and probably won't vote._



Jesus wept


----------



## DotCommunist (May 17, 2017)

Wilf said:


> 26k is real, the rest is speculation, let's stick with that.   But if Labour membership were to stabilise around say something over 450,000 I'd admit that was still impressive.  My point is about what those people have been _doing_ over the last 18 months - or perhaps what the Corbyn team/momentum/local corbynistas have set up.  This is probably the wrong thread for all that, but it does have a bearing on the election campaign.


if it really does go tits up at the election you could do a thread 'post-momentum, post mortem'

try the veal etc


----------



## mikey mikey (May 18, 2017)

This

is rather reminiscent of Smethwick 1964


----------



## chilango (May 18, 2017)

Got a Lib Dem leaflet thru the door today. Personally addressed to me.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 18, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Most recent surveys actually show that younger people are more economically conservative , whilst being more liberal on other issues, than older people.





> Labour is solidly ahead of the Conservatives with voters under 40 years old, despite being more than 20 points behind in the polls overall, according to a significant new poll.
> 
> The mega-poll of nearly 13,000 voters by YouGov conducted over a two and a half week period found Jeremy Corbyn would be heading to Downing Street were the election decided by 18-40 year olds.
> 
> Labour is particular popular with women under 40, who split 42 per cent in favour of Mr Corbyn’s party and 27 per cent for Theresa May’s. Twelve per cent support the Lib Dems. Men under 40 also back Labour by 32 per cent to 31 per cent for the Conservatives, with 18 per cent backing the Lib Dems.



Jeremy Corbyn would win the election if only people under-40 voted


----------



## JTG (May 18, 2017)

chilango said:


> Got a Lib Dem leaflet thru the door today. Personally addressed to me.


They have your name. That basically means they can claim your soul mate


----------



## ChrisD (May 18, 2017)

ChrisD said:


> Included in these but so is my wife... but they think I'm head of the household 	  Looking at the envelope I read it as GCHQ.
> View attachment 106486 [] View attachment 106487



That clever lady Theresa  has sent me ANOTHER personal letter.  This time she has worked out how to  "insert name of candidate here" and managed it 5 times in the same letter.  No mention of which party she and  her friend James belong to.  Clearly aimed at limiting arguements to her or Corbyn.	I hope she's running out of money - this time it's on plain white paper signed in black pen whilst the previous was on fancy yellow paper with blue signature.  It's almost annoying enough to make me vote for Blairite Ben Bradshaw (but not quite).


----------



## mojo pixy (May 18, 2017)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Jeremy Corbyn would win the election if only people under-40 voted



I read that as _Jeremy Corbyn would win the election if only 40 people voted._


----------



## chilango (May 18, 2017)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Jeremy Corbyn would win the election if only people under-40 voted


Is that because they don't join social groups or something?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 18, 2017)

A fb friend (one of several that appear to have got involved for the first time this election) has been out campaigning for Labour today and apparently rail nationalisation has been very well received by commuters they've been speaking to at the local station. It's Shipley though, so they've got a job to do to get Davies out, but quite smart hitting people with a relevant message.

I reckon one thing with this kind of campaigning is that it won't intercept that sizeable chunk of the population who drive to work and shop at big supermarkets/malls, I doubt it's easy to reach those kind of voters in person. Likely to be disproportionately Tory.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 18, 2017)

chilango said:


> Is that because they don't join social groups or something?



Don't get the reference, sorry.


----------



## chilango (May 18, 2017)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Don't get the reference, sorry.



Long running spam saga


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 18, 2017)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Don't get the reference, sorry.


IS THAT BECAUSE THEY DON'T JOIN SOCIAL GROUPS OR SOMETHING?


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 18, 2017)

Still none the wiser. 

Never mind.


----------



## happie chappie (May 18, 2017)

Wow - for the first time ever I've just been opinion polled about an election. Not sure why I was selected - I should have asked.

Only asked 3 questions:

1) Who was I going to vote for
2) How likely was I to vote
3) Who would make the best PM (only given a choice of Corbyn or May)


----------



## chilango (May 18, 2017)

happie chappie said:


> Wow - for the first time ever I've just been opinion polled about an election. Not sure i was selected - I should have asked.
> 
> Only asked 3 questions:
> 
> ...



When I was  asked (quite regularly) I also get am I member of a party? Do I see myself as Labour/Tory/etc?. And how strongly?


----------



## William of Walworth (May 18, 2017)

happie chappie said:


> Wow - for the first time ever I've just been opinion polled about an election. Not sure why I was selected - I should have asked.
> 
> Only asked 3 questions:
> 
> ...



Was Question 3 asked with exactly the above wording then?  

The poll question didn't mention Labour/Conservative?


----------



## William of Walworth (May 18, 2017)

Dodgy poll, man ....


----------



## redsquirrel (May 18, 2017)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Jeremy Corbyn would win the election if only people under-40 voted


But that doesn't contradict what The39thStep said, which is correct - past polls have shown that younger people are more disposed to market driven economics/less opposed to privatisation's/etc than the older generations.


----------



## Raheem (May 19, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Was Question 3 asked with exactly the above wording then?
> 
> The poll question didn't mention Labour/Conservative?



Unless something very unusual happens, neither the Labour party nor the Conservative Party will be prime minister.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 19, 2017)




----------



## William of Walworth (May 19, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Unless something very unusual happens, neither the Labour party nor the Conservative Party will be prime minister.




Fair point  , but I was questioning whether or not the poll  question would specify the parties of the two candidates, as well as their names. Or did it just say 'Jeremy Corbyn'/'Theresa May' only?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 19, 2017)




----------



## mikey mikey (May 19, 2017)

Tory_Jesus (@Tory__Jesus) on Twitter

Epic.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 19, 2017)

Labour's canny campaign is beginning to work

Campaign article on corbyns run. Much covered already but another take is always useful


----------



## teqniq (May 19, 2017)

The Tories _might_ just have fucked up with their manifesto, it's not going to play well with pensioners;  significant numbers of whom they could normally count on.


----------



## Wilf (May 19, 2017)

Opinion polling for the United Kingdom general election, 2017 - Wikipedia

Corbyn's Labour now polling higher than Milliband's did in the 2015 election.  Sort of irrelevant given that the Tories are way ahead of where they were, but in the land of small mercies, it has a slight significance.

Edit: and of course higher than Brown in 2010. The real prize in terms of heroic defeats would be getting beyond Blair's 35% in 2005.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 19, 2017)

So I guess Frank Field and John McTernan can shove their next coup up each other's poop-pipe.


----------



## newbie (May 19, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Corbyn is in pudsey this afternoon. Not a "hipster"/studenty/trendy leftie location by any stretch. Lets see what the turnout is.


fyi


General Election 2017: Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn visits Swinnow - West Leeds Dispatch


----------



## newbie (May 19, 2017)

As I have to confess to never having heard of Pudsey or Swinnow before I've no idea whether a turnout in the hundreds counts as good, bad or indifferent.  It sounds pretty good.


----------



## NoXion (May 19, 2017)

I thought Pudsey was a bear.


----------



## Rimbaud (May 19, 2017)

Labour have really been playing nothing but blinders since the manifesto was "leaked" while the Tories have started to trip up.

McDonnell has skilfully managed to turn the narrative of the Tory manifesto into one of cuts for pensioners' fuel tax, and of the Tory manifesto being uncosted, unlike Labour's. The complacent bastards never expected to be held to account for this - and the beauty of it is that it makes it very difficult for the Tories to use the "yes, yes, very well, but how will you PAY for all this....????" argument against Labour's manifesto, as it is now they who are going on TV saying that it isn't necessary for a manifesto to be fully costed.

To top it off, Jamie Oliver is on BBC attacking it for abolishing free school meals, and every other party leader seems to focusing chiefly on attacking the Tories along similar lines. Could the perception that Labour are already out of the game have a "crouching tiger, hidden dragon" effect? The other parties ignore Labour and attack the Tories, and the Tories make mistakes from complacency.

I reckon the gap may narrow to single figures - let's see how the polls look next week.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2017)

NoXion said:


> I thought Pudsey was a bear.


yeh. pudsey the place named after the bear.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 19, 2017)

Labour does also seem to have prominent entertainment figures coming out for them ie Stormzy ( for the youngers ), Maxine Peake and a few others.

The tories dont seem to have anyone voicing out for them


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. pudsey the place named after the bear.


much like that station in London beginning with P


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> much like that station in London beginning with P


perivale? just so


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 19, 2017)

I was think more of pimlico


----------



## Wilf (May 19, 2017)

Mornington Crescent >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## flypanam (May 19, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> Labour does also seem to have prominent entertainment figures coming out for them ie Stormzy ( for the youngers ), Maxine Peake and a few others.
> 
> The tories dont seem to have anyone voicing out for them


 
Not true, according to The Guardian Jim Davidson is doing his bit.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 19, 2017)

flypanam said:


> Not true, according to The Guardian Jim Davidson is doing his bit.


ha! what a masterstroke


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 19, 2017)

General election 2017 celebrity endorsements: who's voting what


----------



## Wilf (May 19, 2017)

The Tories used to be able to rely on prominent members of the Variety Club.  Nowadays they have to be a bit cautious about wheeling out '70s entertainers'.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2017)

c-byn playing well with the grime boys. And people laughed when I coined his hip-hop name, vindication.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2017)

Wilf said:


> The Tories used to be able to rely on prominent members of the Variety Club.  Nowadays they have to be a bit cautious about wheeling out '70s entertainers'.


ole comedy racist jim davidson had a brush with the tree of yew didn't he?


----------



## Wilf (May 19, 2017)

> Sick of seeing Theresa May on my scabby wretched feed. Fuck off you bastard. VOTE LABOUR.
> 
> — Sleaford Mods (@sleafordmods) May 9, 2017



I look forward to Sleaford Mods turning up to some post-election Corbyn bash at Downing Street.  #CoolBrittania2


----------



## JTG (May 19, 2017)

Wilf said:


> The Tories used to be able to rely on prominent members of the Variety Club.  Nowadays they have to be a bit cautious about wheeling out '70s entertainers'.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 19, 2017)

Kate Bush is a TM fan, apparently. *sigh*


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Kate Bush is a TM fan, apparently. *sigh*


yeh you won't find anyone who's an mm fan.


----------



## Wilf (May 19, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Kate Bush is a TM fan, apparently. *sigh*


Wow!


----------



## mikey mikey (May 19, 2017)

Like Kate Bush, I 'came out' as a Tory and faced a ridiculously hysterical leftie response

Woo.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh you won't find anyone who's an mm fan.



Give it a rest.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Give it a rest.


the truth hurts, eh. i'm not surprised.


----------



## Cid (May 19, 2017)

newbie said:


> fyi
> 
> View attachment 107029
> General Election 2017: Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn visits Swinnow - West Leeds Dispatch



Tory seat in West Yorkshire... Ed Balls lost nearby Morely and Outwood in 2015, so it's probably a good area to be campaigning in. Though the Tories seem to be a fair bit stronger in Pudsey than M&O.


----------



## Brainaddict (May 19, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> Labour's canny campaign is beginning to work
> 
> Campaign article on corbyns run. Much covered already but another take is always useful


Interesting, but I think they're confusing not wheeling Corbyn out in the marginals with not focussing on the marginals. Certainly in London there's been (and still is) a big push of canvassing in Ealing, Croydon, Eltham and other marginals. The door to door work is not so visible to the media I suppose.


----------



## existentialist (May 19, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


>


She does look as if she's smelled a particularly noxious niff. Or maybe she always looks like that.


----------



## teqniq (May 19, 2017)

Theresa May to shut down the internet as we know it

Cunts. Let's hope they've miscalculated with this one too.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 19, 2017)

Newspaper Hostility To Jeremy Corbyn Exposed In Audit Of Election Reporting | HuffPost UK


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2017)

existentialist said:


> She does look as if she's smelled a particularly noxious niff. Or maybe she always looks like that.


inherited nick robinsons subliminal smirk though. All in the game for them.


----------



## Cid (May 19, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Theresa May to shut down the internet as we know it
> 
> Cunts. Let's hope they've miscalculated with this one too.



Well if anything's going to get 18-25s voting...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Theresa May to shut down the internet as we know it
> 
> Cunts. Let's hope they've miscalculated with this one too.



now I'm singing 'tails on tor' to the tune of 'girls on film'


----------



## existentialist (May 19, 2017)

Cid said:


> Well if anything's going to get 18-25s voting...


Heh. Unintended consequences. I really hope this doesn't play well with the electorate - it's the kind of misguided nonsense that's doomed to fail, but could do all kinds of damage and harm along the way.


----------



## teqniq (May 19, 2017)

Scottish Tories demand winter fuel allowance is kept for Scottish pensioners lol


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 19, 2017)

It really seems like the tories don't want it , or as one of my mates thinks they really are that arrogant


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> It really seems like the tories don't want it , or as one of my mates thinks they really are that arrogant


its the latter. This election is about putting the labour party out of power for a generation. Of course they run it as a brexit themed one but in the end its as simple as tories smelling blood in the water. They think thats in the bag (hard to disagree atm) and so here comes the reaming


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 19, 2017)




----------



## ruffneck23 (May 19, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> its the latter. This election is about putting the labour party out of power for a generation. Of course they run it as a brexit themed one but in the end its as simple as tories smelling blood in the water. They think thats in the bag (hard to disagree atm) and so here comes the reaming


well let's hope it's fucks em up


----------



## extra dry (May 19, 2017)

I am unusally worried that the tories will win, please make my worries go away.


----------



## Teaboy (May 19, 2017)

extra dry said:


> I am unusally worried that the tories will win, please make my worries go away.



Sorry, the tories are going to win.

What is interesting is that labour do appear to be on a bit of a roll.  The tories have run a pretty ordinary campaign so far, their manifesto launch was a bit crap and the manifesto itself was basically 'fuck off everyone, we run this shit now'.  It also doesn't help that they don't appear to have costed it which even John McDonnell managed to do even if no one believes his figures.

I remember in 2015 when Cameron's campaign was going a bit flat and suddenly we were all treated to action man Cameron, that was great.  The tories don't really have that option with May as she's the continuity candidate.  My guess is that they'll go after Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbot etc big time in the next few weeks. I'm guessing it's about to get nasty.


----------



## campanula (May 19, 2017)

Being as I don't really know any Tories. it's hard for me to gauge..but from random chit-chats at the bakers and the local A&E (long story), there seems to be not really much evidence of Labour loathing in my milieu...and quite a bit of pro-Corbyn Labour style appreciation...while according to my daughter, the entirety of Broadlands Authority and Norwich children's services are all deepest red...so, in truth, it just doen't seem so obviously cut and dried for me...in fact, given the clear media hostility towards Corbyn...and the often leading questions, I would not be too surprised if there is a little 'shy Tory' syndrome ocurring with the public response to polling.
However, it is in the nature of gardeners to be optimistic...so my totally unscientific view has it's own deep bias.
I absolutely agree that it is going to get very nasty with the best Tory strategy based on keeping May out of the limelight while concentrating on a vindictive, spite fest.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


>



over 25? you should also be angry


----------



## Pickman's model (May 19, 2017)

extra dry said:


> I am unusally worried that the tories will win, please make my worries go away.


drink should do the trick till the result's in


----------



## Wilf (May 19, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Sorry, the tories are going to win.
> 
> What is interesting is that labour do appear to be on a bit of a roll.  The tories have run a pretty ordinary campaign so far, their manifesto launch was a bit crap and the manifesto itself was basically 'fuck off everyone, we run this shit now'.  It also doesn't help that they don't appear to have costed it which even John McDonnell managed to do even if no one believes his figures.
> 
> I remember in 2015 when Cameron's campaign was going a bit flat and suddenly we were all treated to action man Cameron, that was great.  The tories don't really have that option with May as she's the continuity candidate.  My guess is that they'll go after Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbot etc big time in the next few weeks. I'm guessing it's about to get nasty.


Yep, that's my guess about the shape of the next 2 weeks. Labour maybe getting a couple more good polls, possibly up to 'just' 10% behind - followed by a chorus of 'leadership, leadership... IRA supporter... soft on terror... soft on defence... figures don't add up/will cost you £xxxx... even his own MPs hate him... just listen to xxx said about him... and he's got a _beard_!'.  But the Tories end up with a significant going on massive majority regardless.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 19, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> over 25? you should also be angry



I was wondering as I posted, how many readers were under 25 when they first came to U75 and significantly not under 25 now


----------



## Rimbaud (May 19, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Sorry, the tories are going to win.
> 
> What is interesting is that labour do appear to be on a bit of a roll.  The tories have run a pretty ordinary campaign so far, their manifesto launch was a bit crap and the manifesto itself was basically 'fuck off everyone, we run this shit now'.  It also doesn't help that they don't appear to have costed it which even John McDonnell managed to do even if no one believes his figures.
> 
> I remember in 2015 when Cameron's campaign was going a bit flat and suddenly we were all treated to action man Cameron, that was great.  The tories don't really have that option with May as she's the continuity candidate.  My guess is that they'll go after Corbyn, McDonnell, Abbot etc big time in the next few weeks. I'm guessing it's about to get nasty.



I don't think it is as in the bag as they think it is. Labour have 3 or 4 times as many members as the Tories so a lot more boots on the ground as it were, and I think the strength of their manifesto and the utter shiteness of the Tory one gives them something persuasive to go on. It also seems like the Tories have sank into complacency while Labour have been thinking hard and are running a pretty effective and clever campaign.

I reckon that the Tories massive lead is actually quite fragile, being largely dependent on May's personality. The Tory strategy seems to be "hide away and avoid making mistakes" in order to maintain their lead, but the utter shitness of the manifesto finally gives Labour a lot of ammunition to attack them with, which they seem to be doing quite effectively. 

They may fall back on the smear campaign, but the smears have been so constant against Corbyn that they may not have much effect and it could just make the Tories look like the nasty cunts they are, relying on smear campaigns while Corbyn behaves like a gent and focuses on popular policies, compared to the Tories grand vision of taking food away from children and letting more pensioners freeze to death.


----------



## extra dry (May 19, 2017)

Yes and save the NHS.


----------



## Rimbaud (May 19, 2017)

campanula said:


> in fact, given the clear media hostility towards Corbyn...and the often leading questions, I would not be too surprised if there is a little 'shy Tory' syndrome ocurring with the public response to polling.



I also have an over-optimistic temperament, but I suspect this to be the case as well. Corbyn has been vilified so much that some people feel like supporting him isn't the done thing, but they might actually vote Labour on the day. For this reason as well as the likelihood of a higher turnout than usual among Labour supporters this election, I expect Labour to outperform the polls on the actual day.


----------



## butchersapron (May 19, 2017)

The shy tory effect moved the last election (from the polling figures at least) from both parties being level pegging on around 32-36% to a final result of 36%/30%. if the exact same thing happens this time with shy labour voters - and i think there's a good chance it will -  it will be electorally insignificant.


----------



## Hollis (May 19, 2017)

Rimbaud said:


> I don't think it is as in the bag as they think it is. Labour have 3 or 4 times as many members as the Tories so a lot more boots on the ground as it were, and I think the strength of their manifesto and the utter shiteness of the Tory one gives them something persuasive to go on. It also seems like the Tories have sank into complacency while Labour have been thinking hard and are running a pretty effective and clever campaign.
> 
> I reckon that the Tories massive lead is actually quite fragile, being largely dependent on May's personality. The Tory strategy seems to be "hide away and avoid making mistakes" in order to maintain their lead, but the utter shitness of the manifesto finally gives Labour a lot of ammunition to attack them with, which they seem to be doing quite effectively.
> 
> They may fall back on the smear campaign, but the smears have been so constant against Corbyn that they may not have much effect and it could just make the Tories look like the nasty cunts they are, relying on smear campaigns while Corbyn behaves like a gent and focuses on popular policies, compared to the Tories grand vision of taking food away from children and letting more pensioners freeze to death.



So far the Tories are by normal standards running an awful campaign, and Labour a good one.  The fact you say the Tories are 'dependent on May's personality' is a sorry indictment of lots of things.  If the working-class vote splits for the Tories I'm really struggling to understand why - is it really immigration/identity politics/loss of faith in the Labour party?  I even think a lot of A/B/C voters should be enticed by the Labour manifesto
.  
One thing, I think the media are playing into Labour's hands.  Labour do seem to be playing some variation of the 'fake news' strategy well, and its making BBC journos seem trite and partisan.


----------



## rutabowa (May 19, 2017)

I had my first door knock visit today, someone from the Workers Revolutionary Party... made quite a good case tbh


----------



## J Ed (May 19, 2017)

Tom Mills: Bias at the BBC



> There has scarcely been a time in the BBC’s 95-year history when it hasn’t faced accusations of political bias. But it has been decades since the criticisms emanated so strongly from the left. This is a consequence of the collapse of a centre ground which had long been the BBC’s political fulcrum. As the Labour Party shifted leftwards, attracting an unprecedented influx of new members, its MPs and party bureaucracy fought back. And since the BBC is deeply embedded in Westminster, and routinely defers to the consensus there in setting the parameters of political debate, its political reporting has been skewed against Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters.
> 
> When Theresa May called the general election, I expected the BBC to assume a more balanced position on Corbyn. First, because I expected more unity in the Labour Party; second, because general elections impose stricter regulatory requirements on broadcasters; and third, because the BBC – whatever you think of its political reporting – takes its democratic responsibilities seriously. But the early signs have not been promising.
> 
> ...



Jump you fuckers


----------



## mx wcfc (May 19, 2017)




----------



## jakethesnake (May 19, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Tom Mills: Bias at the BBC
> 
> 
> 
> Jump you fuckers


I'm proud not to pay a licence fee.


----------



## billy_bob (May 19, 2017)

rutabowa said:


> I had my first door knock visit today, someone from the Workers Revolutionary Party... made quite a good case tbh



I'd have been more impressed by their commitment if they'd kicked it in.


----------



## Sue (May 19, 2017)

rutabowa said:


> I had my first door knock visit today, someone from the Workers Revolutionary Party... made quite a good case tbh


Are you in Hackney South and Shoreditch?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 19, 2017)

Hollis said:


> So far the Tories are by normal standards running an awful campaign, and Labour a good one.



Thing is, we don't know that - the Tories are likely to be using things like targeted Facebook ads and local publicity in marginals that a lot of us simply won't be seeing. We're not in that bubble, they know a lot of us would like to set them on fire so they won't waste time and money trying to reach us. The people they will reach and motivate are likely to get quite well-tailored material, and there's nothing those who oppose them can do to stand in the way of this or offer a counterpoint. It's how they got in last time, how Brexit was voted for etc. and is likely to be even more refined and effective due to lessons learnt from the successes of those campaigns.


----------



## rutabowa (May 19, 2017)

Sue said:


> Are you in Hackney South and Shoreditch?


Yep


----------



## rutabowa (May 19, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> I'd have been more impressed by their commitment if they'd kicked it in.


Jesus what is wrong with you?


----------



## butchersapron (May 19, 2017)

rutabowa said:


> Jesus what is wrong with you?


You know their rapist history?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 19, 2017)

John Harris (of the Graun) has been doing some YT shorts asking people in NotLondon about the election.

There was this bloke in Birmingham at a charity street kitchen. He seems to be mid 20s and ran out of money for food. He might be voting tory because his dad does (his mum votes labour tho - so it's 50/50 in that "my child can't afford to eat" sample). He said he doesn't know much about politics. If people knew about politics the tories would be fucked.

Another guy said "corbyn is a disaster" (a way older and more entrenched mantra meme than "strong and stable", people bought it from the off.)

He's voting conservative this time because Labour can't win. Harris looked at him with...well it's that double-take thing we're all getting used to having to do with Trump.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 19, 2017)

rutabowa said:


> Jesus what is wrong with you?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 19, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Thing is, we don't know that - the Tories are likely to be using things like targeted Facebook ads and local publicity in marginals that a lot of us simply won't be seeing. We're not in that bubble, they know a lot of us would like to set them on fire so they won't waste time and money trying to reach us. The people they will reach and motivate are likely to get quite well-tailored material, and there's nothing those who oppose them can do to stand in the way of this or offer a counterpoint. It's how they got in last time, how Brexit was voted for etc. and is likely to be even more refined and effective due to lessons learnt from the successes of those campaigns.



Yep, the tory campaign is also aimed at people who don't, for whatever reason, pay much attention. It's very simplistic indeed, which is why it can seem "worse". It's full of complete horseshit and doublethink too, but that stuff seems to be quite effective.

To paraphrase Lincoln, you only have to fool about 10% of people in marginals once every 4 or 5 years.


----------



## rutabowa (May 19, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> You know their rapist history?


 No, I don't know... I typed the name in on here and nothing much came up about them. What's the story?

I'm not keen on jokes about kicking doors in


----------



## butchersapron (May 19, 2017)

rutabowa said:


> No, I don't know... I typed the name in on here and nothing much came up about them. What's the story?
> 
> I'm not keen on jokes about kicking doors in


This might fill you in.

Don't know why jokes like that might annoy you - it's what the WRP's entire schtick has been based on for 50s years -_ the fascist state is here and it's coming through your doors quite soon._


----------



## redsquirrel (May 19, 2017)

rutabowa said:


> No, I don't know... I typed the name in on here and nothing much came up about them. What's the story?
> 
> I'm not keen on jokes about kicking doors in


Their former leader Gerry Healy raped/sexually assaulted a number of women and the party covered it up/ignored it.

And billy_bob joke was surely just on the WRP door-knocking not an attack on you


----------



## billy_bob (May 19, 2017)

It's a miracle they managed to make a good impression on someone, really.


----------



## rutabowa (May 19, 2017)

Right I got wrong end of stick I see. 
Anyway their leaflet says "vote wrp in the 5 constuencies we are standing! Vote labour in the rest!" and I had to let him down and say I was still voting labour but I can't find much in the wrp a4 sheet to disagree with.


----------



## butchersapron (May 19, 2017)

You're not supposed to. It's to you draw you into the cult. You and they know they're not going to win the seat.


----------



## rutabowa (May 19, 2017)

well, thanks for the heads up! I didn't buy a paper or let them in the house or anything,


----------



## stethoscope (May 19, 2017)

The WRP are nuts. Not had great encounters with them.


----------



## Raheem (May 19, 2017)

My fear with the WRP is that, if they hold the balance of power in a few weeks' time, they'll probably do a Nick Clegg.


----------



## billy_bob (May 19, 2017)

Raheem said:


> My fear with the WRP is that, if they hold the balance of power in a few weeks' time, they'll probably do a Nick Clegg.



I think you can probably relax about the first half of that.


----------



## Raheem (May 19, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> I think you can probably relax about the first half of that.



Don't believe the polls. Remember how it was a last-minute thing with the Lib Dems? If they've been to every house in the country with a piece of paper that no-one disagrees with, they could be in with a real chance. Plus, it seems they've learnt from past campaigns not to kick people's doors in.


----------



## rutabowa (May 19, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Don't believe the polls. If they've been to every house in the country with a piece of paper that no-one disagrees with, they could be in with a real chance. Plus, it seems they've learnt from past campaigns not to kick people's doors in.


Hmm


----------



## rutabowa (May 19, 2017)




----------



## butchersapron (May 19, 2017)

Couple of grand of Vanessa's money down the drain.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 19, 2017)

"revolutionary leadership for the working-class", good job too, how else will the proles know what to do.


----------



## Raheem (May 19, 2017)

OK, maybe not everyone would agree with everything in there. I definitely know some people who think it's a bit late in the day to do anything about the Balfour Declaration, or don't put it very high on their list of priorities. Other than that, I think the disillusioned Tory vote is theirs for the taking.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 20, 2017)

He's not wrong.


----------



## Hollis (May 20, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Yep, the tory campaign is also aimed at people who don't, for whatever reason, pay much attention. It's very simplistic indeed, which is why it can seem "worse". It's full of complete horseshit and doublethink too, but that stuff seems to be quite effective.
> 
> To paraphrase Lincoln, you only have to fool about 10% of people in marginals once every 4 or 5 years.



But please remember, nobody in the Brexit campaign was fooled or duped.


----------



## Hollis (May 20, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> "revolutionary leadership for the working-class", good job too, how else will the proles know what to do.



Let's disenfranchise the working class, then we can have a proper socialist government.


----------



## chilango (May 20, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Thing is, we don't know that - the Tories are likely to be using things like targeted Facebook ads and local publicity in marginals that a lot of us simply won't be seeing. We're not in that bubble, they know a lot of us would like to set them on fire so they won't waste time and money trying to reach us. The people they will reach and motivate are likely to get quite well-tailored material, and there's nothing those who oppose them can do to stand in the way of this or offer a counterpoint. It's how they got in last time, how Brexit was voted for etc. and is likely to be even more refined and effective due to lessons learnt from the successes of those campaigns.



I'm not seeing that happening here behind enemy lines...


----------



## Jeremiah18.17 (May 20, 2017)

chilango said:


> I'm not seeing that happening here behind enemy lines...


I am in a Labour held North Midlands constituency vulnerable to falling to the Tories if they can get enough UKIP voters from last time to switch. This, and similar constituencies have been focused on in reporting about the Tories getting ready to seize core Labour constituencies that have been red for nearly a hundred years.  We have had expensive wrap around ads on the local paper ( which itself is ramping the Tory campaign, even without the wrap). We have now had two personalised direct mail letters from "Theresa May" focused on Brexit which is their key way of appealing to UKIP switchers. These have come to us as we are registered postal voters, so that is where they are concentrating resources ATM. Goodness knows what they are doing with algorithm generated tailored content and ads on FB, we can only imagine, but we would not see that as we are not in the target demographic. I agree with dog sauce, we will not even see what they are doing due to the now very focused, technologically enabled targeted campaigning. Opinion polling would have to be massively refined, detailed and expensive in a vast number of target seats to now keep up with Cambridge Analytica style campaigning. As such, I think most opinion polls are worse than useless in making predictions now.


----------



## bimble (May 20, 2017)

Today's DM has an 'article' by Theresa May in it, ramming home the message that she is counting on its readers else she will lose to the red menace.
 I'm kind of amazed, maybe that's just ignorance though - is this normal?


----------



## rutabowa (May 20, 2017)

Hollis said:


> Let's disenfranchise the working class, then we can have a proper socialist government.


I think you're all being very cynical


----------



## chilango (May 20, 2017)

Jeremiah18.17 said:


> I am in a Labour held North Midlands constituency vulnerable to falling to the Tories if they can get enough UKIP voters from last time to switch. This, and similar constituencies have been focused on in reporting about the Tories getting ready to seize core Labour constituencies that have been red for nearly a hundred years.  We have had expensive wrap around ads on the local paper ( which itself is ramping the Tory campaign, even without the wrap). We have now had two personalised direct mail letters from "Theresa May" focused on Brexit which is their key way of appealing to UKIP switchers. These have come to us as we are registered postal voters, so that is where they are concentrating resources ATM. Goodness knows what they are doing with algorithm generated tailored content and ads on FB, we can only imagine, but we would not see that as we are not in the target demographic. I agree with dog sauce, we will not even see what they are doing due to the now very focused, technologically enabled targeted campaigning. Opinion polling would have to be massively refined, detailed and expensive in a vast number of target seats to now keep up with Cambridge Analytica style campaigning. As such, I think most opinion polls are worse than useless in making predictions now.



Fair enough.

Here in a Tory held semi-marginal that largely voted remain, I'm seeing nothing special. I know plenty of Tory voters - some rock solid, some 2010 Lib Dems/1997 Blair voters. No sign of anything other than their votes being taken for granted. Sadly, rightly so.


----------



## Sue (May 20, 2017)

Fucking hell, I've just had Labour round canvassing. Unheard of in these parts.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 20, 2017)




----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 20, 2017)

@CraigMurrayOrg 

Entire mainstream media, acting as one, shifts election coverage onto Trident missiles after dreadful reaction to Tory pensioner proposals.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 20, 2017)

Theresa May's extraordinary Facebook meltdown


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 20, 2017)

bimble said:


> Today's DM has an 'article' by Theresa May in it, ramming home the message that she is counting on its readers else she will lose to the red menace.
> I'm kind of amazed, maybe that's just ignorance though - is this normal?
> 
> 
> View attachment 107156




"If I lose 6 seats" - HER seats mark you, not the parties. She is so bad at hiding her authoritarianism. The odd thing is that they try to make something of her "personality" when she is such a charmless dullard. But there's a thing, charmless dullardism resonates strongly with the bitter bourgeois and other dupes for social darwinism, capital etc. Theres also an unstated and illogical projected synonimity between "dull" and "competent"


----------



## DotCommunist (May 20, 2017)

I've had a labour leaflet from one Mike Scrimshaw. I'm sure his ivory carving is top notch. No mention of corbyn on it.


----------



## agricola (May 20, 2017)

Big crowd on the Wirral for Corbyn today -

Jeremy Corbyn rally in Merseyside - Live updates


----------



## billy_bob (May 20, 2017)

Shame my kid was in school when she was on Tyneside. Would have had him out with a 'Theresa May is a doylem' sign.


----------



## treelover (May 20, 2017)




----------



## treelover (May 20, 2017)

What a banner, gets it all in.


----------



## treelover (May 20, 2017)

Big crowd for the Wirral.

Didn't know you were in the Wirrall, Agri.


----------



## treelover (May 20, 2017)

Its rather large.


----------



## killer b (May 20, 2017)

I'm just back from Kirby, it was busy. They were playing some choice disco cuts beforehand too.


----------



## killer b (May 20, 2017)

Here's in either direction from where we were


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 20, 2017)

They should send him to some Conservative safe seats, let him sink or swim and deal with hecklers.


In person he's great but not many conservative voters have dealt with him.


----------



## killer b (May 20, 2017)

He's been in loads of Tory seats. This is one of the few marginals he's been afaik


----------



## Pickman's model (May 20, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> They should send him to some Conservative safe seats, let him sink or swim and deal with hecklers.
> 
> 
> In person he's great but not many conservative voters have dealt with him.


Yeh he did fuck all in the referendum make him work now


----------



## William of Walworth (May 20, 2017)

Would appreciate it loads if Greenwood was re-elected


----------



## Artaxerxes (May 20, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh he did fuck all in the referendum make him work now



Look, if Angela Eagle says he worked hard in the Ref, who am I to doubt such a fine politician?


----------



## brogdale (May 20, 2017)

Ouch.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 20, 2017)

Mail on Sunday was always _just about slightly_ less extremely Tory than the weekly one ....


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 20, 2017)

Question that perplexes me: To his credit, Corbyn has been far more critical of arming Saudis than other Labour leaders. 

The febrile fascist press are sure to go even further in their disgusting appropriation of pain and misery in Northern Ireland towards personal attacks on Corbyn (we know the right don't give two shits for people in the 6 north eastern counties because they have made next to no effort to generate a post-Brexit plan for the border) 

So when they hammer him as "sympathetic to terrorists" 30 years ago, the obvious retort is that she (May) arms Islamic extremists TO-fucking-DAY. Why don't Labour use it? I would have thought arming Islamic extremists would be considered somewhat rum overall.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 20, 2017)

And another thing...Tim whatshisname off of the Libdems got a lot of deserved flack for his position on homosexuality.

Theresa May voted against the repeal of Section 28, and has candidates like this in her fold

Conservative candidate has links to a ‘gay cure’ church

Have mainstream "journalists" put her bigotry under the microscope or do tories get a free pass yet again?


----------



## Raheem (May 21, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Ouch.
> 
> View attachment 107248



I know. Ouch indeed. Only 12 pages? Call that glorious?


----------



## treelover (May 21, 2017)

Jeremy Corbyn's 10-year association with group which denies the Holocaust



Polls up for Labour, so the dirty tricks come out.

so transparent.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 21, 2017)

treelover said:


> Jeremy Corbyn's 10-year association with group which denies the Holocaust
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Theresa May gives weapons to anti semites and is closely linked to a "news" paper which railed against "floods of jews" escaping the reich.
Antisemitism in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia


----------



## Raheem (May 21, 2017)

treelover said:


> Jeremy Corbyn's 10-year association with group which denies the Holocaust
> 
> Polls up for Labour, so the dirty tricks come out.
> 
> so transparent.



Note to Tory HQ: If your aim is to persuade people away from voting Labour, the Telegraph readership may not be the optimum audience for this type of headline.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (May 21, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Theresa May gives weapons to anti semites and is closely linked to a "news" paper which railed against "floods of jews" escaping the reich.
> Antisemitism in Saudi Arabia - Wikipedia


There is no mention of Theresa May whatsoever in that item from Wikepedia.


----------



## Raheem (May 21, 2017)

Hocus Eye. said:


> There is no mention of Theresa May whatsoever in that item from Wikepedia.



Well, it is the encyclopaedia anyone can edit...


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 21, 2017)

Hocus Eye. said:


> There is no mention of Theresa May whatsoever in that item from Wikepedia.



She flogs them weapons, which is what I said. 

They did out something about Corbyn and holocaust denial, but May can flog weapons to virulent Jew haters.

they bang on about Corbyn and the IRA 30 years ago, May arms Islamic extremists today.

These wild inconsistencies demonstrate that victims of the troubles and Jew-hate are just pawns for shallow political exploitation as far as the right are concerned.


----------



## J Ed (May 21, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> They should send him to some Conservative safe seats, let him sink or swim and deal with hecklers.
> 
> 
> In person he's great but not many conservative voters have dealt with him.



He was in Peterborough on Friday


----------



## J Ed (May 21, 2017)

As heartening as the new polling is, there's still no way Labour can win. What it does potentially mean is that Corbyn could legitimately retain leadership until the rest of the party plays ball and allows a lower threshold for a leadership candidacy.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 21, 2017)

J Ed said:


> As heartening as the new polling is, there's still no way Labour can win. What it does potentially mean is that Corbyn could legitimately retain leadership until the rest of the party plays ball and allows a lower threshold for a leadership candidacy.


I think that's the ball that is in play. 35+% would give him a decent result to stand on against any challengers.



> Some inside the party are already considering a bid to return to the old Labour leadership voting system, which gave MPs a greater say in deciding the leader. The move would end the practice of allowing Labour supporters to pay £3 for a vote in a leadership contest. But changing the rules would require a huge and painful battle at Labour’s autumn conference. There are also attempts by the left of the party to change rules to make it easier for their preferred candidate to run for leader.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 21, 2017)

a lot of people seem mystified by corbyn’s growing popularity with the voters – perhaps the British electorate is being infiltrated by trotskyite entryists?


----------



## Bingo (May 21, 2017)

I've been watching this for the last few weeks, reckon it might be a good indicator Prime Minister After Election Betting Odds | UK Politics | Oddschecker

Corbyn's gone from 20-1 to about 8-1 on average


----------



## butchersapron (May 21, 2017)

liberals love old people now. Quite a turnaround since june when they wanted them to die.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 21, 2017)

Bingo said:


> I've been watching this for the last few weeks, reckon it might be a good indicator Prime Minister After Election Betting Odds | UK Politics | Oddschecker
> 
> Corbyn's gone from 20-1 to about 8-1 on average


no it wouldn't, all it means is a load of people have chucked money onto him.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 21, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> a lot of people seem mystified by corbyn’s growing popularity with the voters – perhaps the British electorate is being infiltrated by trotskyite entryists?


or entered by trotskyite infiltrators.


----------



## bi0boy (May 21, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> I think that's the ball that is in play. 35+% would give him a decent result to stand on against any challengers.



I am pretty sure the Tories would love Corbyn to stay on after losing the election. They can let him get more than Milliband this time round, and keep their powder dry for 2022.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 21, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I am pretty sure the Tories would love Corbyn to stay on after losing the election.


what will be more interesting after the tories lose the election is whether may stays on.


----------



## bi0boy (May 21, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> what will be more interesting after the tories lose the election is whether may stays on.



That would probably be the least interesting thing after the Tories lose the election tbf.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 21, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> That would probably be the least interesting thing after the Tories lose the election tbf.


yeh. but more interesting than what the tories think about corbyn.


----------



## treelover (May 21, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Note to Tory HQ: If your aim is to persuade people away from voting Labour, the Telegraph readership may not be the optimum audience for this type of headline.



it is not just aimed at its own readership, but creating a wider political mood/agenda.


----------



## chilango (May 21, 2017)

Funnily Tory voters I've spoken to aren't even considering the possibility of a Labour win.They're not checking the polls and seem very complacent. 

Understandably so.

But those who I know that are floating Labour/Green/Undecided/Spoil are pilImg in behind Labour and there is a sense of *cough* momentum about it.

A line seems to have been drawn and people are choosing which side of it they're on.

It feels (amongst my circles) more polarised than any election I can recall, more than Brexit even.


----------



## Wilf (May 21, 2017)

J Ed said:


> As heartening as the new polling is, there's still no way Labour can win. What it does potentially mean is that Corbyn could legitimately retain leadership until the rest of the party plays ball and allows a lower threshold for a leadership candidacy.


I think that's exactly it, though there's going to be an almighty battle over how the results are interpreted.  35%+ beats what Blair got in 2005, but the Tories still look like getting more than 45% which is carnage in terms of seats.  But as you say the result will force the party to have the left v right organisational battle it should have had last year.  Trouble is, the Corbynites are going to be in a much weaker position than they were then (in the sense of having lost an election very badly, even if the forces in the party remain roughly as they were).


----------



## Idris2002 (May 21, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I think that's exactly it, though there's going to be an almighty battle over how the results are interpreted.  35%+ beats what Blair got in 2005, but the Tories still look like getting more than 45% which is carnage in terms of seats.  But as you say the result will force the party to have the left v right organisational battle it should have had last year.  Trouble is, the Corbynites are going to be in a much weaker position than they were then (in the sense of having lost an election very badly, even if the forces in the party remain roughly as they were).


Roger that.

This article starts off with hopeful signs of a Labour revival - but ends with Ed M.'s spin doctor vowing vengeance on History's Greatest Monster:

"The poll boosts Mr Corbyn’s hopes of clinging on to the leadership by winning more votes than Ed Miliband two years ago.

Mr Miliband’s former spin doctor Tom Baldwin says, however, that Mr Corbyn should “have the good grace to clear his desk the next day” if he fails to gain seats and narrow the Tory lead from the

6.5 points that David Cameron enjoyed two years ago.

Writing in The Sunday Times, Baldwin says: “Corbyn has never been a force for either stability or rational debate in the party.

“If he cannot win seats from the Tories and cut their majority, he should go.”"

Nocookies


----------



## agricola (May 21, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I think that's exactly it, though there's going to be an almighty battle over how the results are interpreted.  35%+ beats what Blair got in 2005, but the Tories still look like getting more than 45% which is carnage in terms of seats.  But as you say the result will force the party to have the left v right organisational battle it should have had last year.  Trouble is, the Corbynites are going to be in a much weaker position than they were then (in the sense of having lost an election very badly, even if the forces in the party remain roughly as they were).



That battle was always going to take place, irrespective of the result and even if he actually wins.  I'd also say that, for all the problems that Corbyn and his allies would have organizationally, the internal opposition still has no obvious leader to rally around - and if he has got 31-35% (or more) of the electorate effectively by himself, it does sort of beg the question of what the actual point of the internal opposition is.


----------



## newbie (May 21, 2017)

I got canvassed yesterday: '_the best Labour manifesto ever_"... "_would you put a Labour poster in the window?_" (er, no) ... "_well yes the candidate, but it's the party you're voting for_"...  

The leaflet says "_*It's CHUKA on the ballot paper here*_". No mention of any of the headline national policies, like nationalisation or fairer taxation.  A bit of anodyne local waffle and a lot about what a wonderful chap CHUKA is. 


is that divisive approach replicated across a lot of other safe Labour seats? By people we all know will obstruct the implementation of the manifesto promises they're notionally standing on.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2017)

newbie said:


> I got canvassed yesterday: '_the best Labour manifesto ever_"... "_would you put a Labour poster in the window?_" (er, no) ... "_well yes the candidate, but it's the party you're voting for_"...
> 
> The leaflet says "_*It's CHUKA on the ballot paper here*_". No mention of any of the headline national policies, like nationalisation or fairer taxation.  A bit of anodyne local waffle and a lot about what a wonderful chap CHUKA is.
> 
> ...


its been repeated on my tory safe seat labour leaflet. Mike Scrimshaw, represents the constituents, local man 'I have a record of putting aside party politics for the benefit of local people'

hmm...



also: local election for local people, we'll have no corbyn here


----------



## jakethesnake (May 21, 2017)

newbie said:


> I got canvassed yesterday: '_the best Labour manifesto ever_"... "_would you put a Labour poster in the window?_" (er, no) ... "_well yes the candidate, but it's the party you're voting for_"...
> 
> The leaflet says "_*It's CHUKA on the ballot paper here*_". No mention of any of the headline national policies, like nationalisation or fairer taxation.  A bit of anodyne local waffle and a lot about what a wonderful chap CHUKA is.
> 
> ...


Yup, here in Exeter we have the treacherous Ben Bradshaw who is also doing exactly that.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 21, 2017)

chilango said:


> Funnily Tory voters I've spoken to aren't even considering the possibility of a Labour win.They're not checking the polls and seem very complacent.
> 
> Understandably so.
> 
> ...


there are two doors ahead. one is marked 'abandon hope all ye who enter here', the other bears just a question mark.


----------



## Bingo (May 21, 2017)

Rachel Reeves in Leeds West, no mention of Corbyn from her.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2017)

Bingo said:


> Rachel Reeves in Leeds West, no mention of Corbyn from her.


what on earth did you do in a previous life to deserve her?


----------



## Bingo (May 21, 2017)

I should have asked her the other day when she trespassed in my garden!  

She was really upset that I called her out on a couple of things, I had to move her along by ensuring her I'd be voting labour!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2017)

I see Proff Green has come out in support of corbyn.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 21, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> "revolutionary leadership for the working-class", good job too, how else will the proles know what to do.



Well, we can be assured of good leadership when the Shoreditch candidate is called Jonty! 

I mean, "Jonty" for fuck's sake!!! String the cunt up from a fucking lamp-post!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 21, 2017)

newbie said:


> I got canvassed yesterday: '_the best Labour manifesto ever_"... "_would you put a Labour poster in the window?_" (er, no) ... "_well yes the candidate, but it's the party you're voting for_"...
> 
> The leaflet says "_*It's CHUKA on the ballot paper here*_". No mention of any of the headline national policies, like nationalisation or fairer taxation.  A bit of anodyne local waffle and a lot about what a wonderful chap CHUKA is.
> 
> ...



I went to the Streatham hustings last week.  Same thing there - nothing about national policies, all about what Chuka has done/is doing locally.


----------



## kebabking (May 21, 2017)

Of the four campaigns I've laid eyes on in Worcestershire - none held by Labour, some swings/marginals, some solid Tory seats - none make mention of Corbyn, and only one makes mention of a Labour government with some very vague ideas of what it's policies might be.

None of which was much more specific than 'fairness'.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 21, 2017)

newbie said:


> The leaflet says "_*It's CHUKA on the ballot paper here*_". No mention of any of the headline national policies, like nationalisation or fairer taxation.  A bit of anodyne local waffle and a lot about what a wonderful chap CHUKA is.
> 
> 
> is that divisive approach replicated across a lot of other safe Labour seats? By people we all know will obstruct the implementation of the manifesto promises they're notionally standing on.



Same thing here. Chris Leslie has apparently never heard of this Corbyn bloke.

Can anyone in a more marginal labour seat/potential labour gain shed some light on what labour are up to campaign-wise there?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 21, 2017)

Andy Slaughter in Hammersmith is running a pretty local campaign, but then he always does. His thing has always been local campaigning and saying how he votes for his constituency and principles (subtext: rather than the party line). I've not seen any mention of Corbyn by name but I don't think that's particularly unusual.

He isn't a Corbynite - he resigned as shadow justice secretary - so I'm sure he's not unhappy to be doing this, but I'd be surprised if he did anything else.


----------



## bi0boy (May 21, 2017)

There's no advantage for a ppc to profess to being a Corbyn fan. Corbyn lovers will vote Labour anyway.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 21, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> There's no advantage for a ppc to profess to being a Corbyn fan. Corbyn lovers will vote Labour anyway.


Well yes. We hear quite enough about him, and national policy, as it is. I prefer this sort of campaigning even though I'm generally pro Corbyn. I hope it persists.


----------



## chilango (May 21, 2017)

Matt Rosa (Reading East) 4 page leaflet without a single mention of Corbyn.


----------



## lazythursday (May 21, 2017)

Labour's 'split campaign' (distinctive local campaigns where there is a sitting MP plus the national campaign) was discussed on this blog back in April - All That Is Solid ...: Labour Party Campaign Strategy and it seems a sensible way to go rather than some sort of back-stabbing of the leadership, for once. 

On the other hand, I've noticed that my old New Labour 'friends' on Facebook can't even bring themselves to post anything anti-Tory at the moment, let alone something pro-Labour... they appear to have not noticed there is an election going on at all, which is strange for political obsessives.


----------



## Hollis (May 21, 2017)

Interesting for the anoraks out there... the Lib Dems seem to have failed to ignite any lingering remain sentiment....  I don't figure the polls are going to move much from now on..


----------



## redsquirrel (May 21, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I am pretty sure the Tories would love Corbyn to stay on after losing the election. They can let him get more than Milliband this time round, and keep their powder dry for 2022.


Yeah, they'd definitely rather Labour took 35% than 30%. Utter crap.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 21, 2017)

Charities may face criminal sanctions as 'gagging law' backdated before election
Charities have to account for themselves retrospectively under penalty of law while the governing party trample all over the rules and get clean away with it. Nice. Fuck the Electoral Commission, really.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 21, 2017)

Hope this link works coz larfs


----------



## RD2003 (May 21, 2017)

All this reminds me of when certain Labour candidates in the local elections in Manchester, around 1986 or 1987, during Graham Stringer's leadership of a 'radical' Labour council, campaigned for Labour on the basis that they didn't agree with Stringer and co. They even produced posters saying 'Labour (moderate.)'

It all seems a bit surreal now, but I'm sure it happened.


----------



## agricola (May 21, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Charities may face criminal sanctions as 'gagging law' backdated before election
> Charities have to account for themselves retrospectively under penalty of law while the governing party trample all over the rules and get clean away with it. Nice. Fuck the Electoral Commission, really.



Indeed.  Though at least one thing to come out of this is that we will all get to laugh at the New Schools Network (prop: Toby Young) having to disclose absolutely _everything_ it has done - lobbying, meetings between its staff and ministers / civil servants, co-ordinating policy, pleading for more government money etc - since last June.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 22, 2017)

It's funny that the tories and their apologists squeal about the dementia tax being named at such. So unfair innit. Oh wait...those who who consistently and knowingly drive disabled people to penury and suicidal despair aren't very well placed to play the "unfair" card.

But here's a weird thing: It's such an obvious vote loser, not least among a core demographic (elderly and not completely dirt-poor) that I have to wonder why they told us about it. There's plenty of other shit they've dumped on us without prior warning (or that they've said the opposite about). Why did go all weird and truth-telly this time?


----------



## Fez909 (May 22, 2017)

Have we had this yet? Labour web guys doing a good job* 













*Yes, I know Google is based on previous search history, but apparently, these were not Labour people who searched these, so they should be seeing the 'correct' results.


----------



## JTG (May 22, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well yes. We hear quite enough about him, and national policy, as it is. I prefer this sort of campaigning even though I'm generally pro Corbyn. I hope it persists.


Bristol NW - Con/Lab swing seat, always goes with the winners - same. It's almost persuaded my dad to vote Labour for the first time ever, could still do so. Very effective stuff


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I see Proff Green has come out in support of corbyn.


Now where's that GIF of Caroline Lucas and Jonathan Bartley crying?


----------



## existentialist (May 22, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It's funny that the tories and their apologists squeal about the dementia tax being named at such. So unfair innit. Oh wait...those who who consistently and knowingly drive disabled people to penury and suicidal despair aren't very well placed to play the "unfair" card.
> 
> But here's a weird thing: It's such an obvious vote loser, not least among a core demographic (elderly and not completely dirt-poor) that I have to wonder why they told us about it. There's plenty of other shit they've dumped on us without prior warning (or that they've said the opposite about). Why did go all weird and truth-telly this time?


I'm increasingly wondering if Conservative Central Office are actually trying to throw this election..


----------



## Cid (May 22, 2017)

existentialist said:


> I'm increasingly wondering if Conservative Central Office are actually trying to throw this election..



People keep coming out with this, of course they're not.


----------



## existentialist (May 22, 2017)

Cid said:


> People keep coming out with this, of course they're not.


I realise they're not, but you can see why people would wonder...


----------



## mikey mikey (May 22, 2017)

Stuff like this makes one thinks they are trying to lose.
Tory deputy mayor: Best thing for disabled children is the guillotine


> Retired GP Owen Lister made his sick suggestion to fellow councillors as they discussed sending the youngsters to a £3,000-a-week care home.
> 
> Mr Lister, 79, told them: "I would guillotine them."
> 
> ...



However, it is very easy to create a clever conspiracy theory than accept sheer incompetence.

Perhaps, the PLP can make that work for them, should the Tories win: "Jerry couldn't even win an election that the Tories tried to lose" as a headline to article in the Telegraph written by some "moderate" cunt.


----------



## Libertad (May 22, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Stuff like this makes one thinks they are trying to lose.
> Tory deputy mayor: Best thing for disabled children is the guillotine
> 
> 
> ...



24th September 2005. Twelve years ago, got anything more current?


----------



## existentialist (May 22, 2017)

Libertad said:


> 24th September 2005. Twelve years ago, got anything more current?


Also, every political party has its headbanger tendency (apart from UKIP), but death taxes and Theresa May are official Tory policy.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 22, 2017)

Libertad said:


> 24th September 2005. Twelve years ago, got anything more current?


----------



## Libertad (May 22, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


>



Can you point me to the content of the update? The Mirror's site algorithms have simply added a May video clip to any article tagged "Conservative".


----------



## mikey mikey (May 22, 2017)

No, not really. I just posted that to explain why I thought it was news. Turns out I should have checked the date. So thanks for helping me out. I mean, it could have been some prick with sidey remarks instead of your helpful reminder.

Meanwhile, back to incompetency v. intentional throwing of election


----------



## newbie (May 22, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well yes. We hear quite enough about him, and national policy, as it is. I prefer this sort of campaigning even though I'm generally pro Corbyn. I hope it persists.


Leaving Corbyn out of local campaigning is fine, especially given the stark contrast with the personality based approach of the May Party. Similarly burning local issues need to be highlighted, but campaigning without reference to the manifesto exposes division which is ripe for exploitation.  How will Abbott or Thornberry deal with persistent questioning about large numbers of prominent LP candidates ignoring the headline policies?


----------



## existentialist (May 22, 2017)

Libertad said:


> Can you point me to the content of the update? The Mirror's site algorithms have simply added a May video clip to any article tagged "Conservative".


I was sure I'd heard that story years ago, and was rather surprised to see it being dated May '17, so thanks for researching that and confirming my suspicions


----------



## existentialist (May 22, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> No, not really. I just posted that to explain why I thought it was news. Turns out I should have checked the date. So thanks for helping me out. I mean, it could have been some prick with sidey remarks instead of your helpful reminder.
> 
> Meanwhile, back to incompetency v. intentional throwing of election



Of course, a very clever political reporter would make sure that the question list Boris snuck a look at next time was a completely fake one


----------



## newbie (May 22, 2017)

existentialist said:


> I'm increasingly wondering if Conservative Central Office are actually trying to throw this election..


No, what they're trying to do is use their huge projected majority to ditch policies they don't want but have had to accept in the past.  Obviously they've not felt confident enough to do that with the immigration target, which everyone knows they have no intention of implementing, but the triple lock, winter fuel and social care are all remnants of socialised provision they're ideologically opposed to.  They could not have ditched those policies in 2010 or 2015, the polling was too ambiguous, but this time she/they thought they could rebrand and make their contempt for the lower middle class and working class homeowners quite explicit without significant electoral penalty.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 22, 2017)

newbie said:


> No, what they're trying to do is use their huge projected majority to ditch policies they don't want but have had to accept in the past.  Obviously they've not felt confident enough to do that with the immigration target, which everyone knows they have no intention of implementing, but the triple lock, winter fuel and social care are all remnants of socialised provision they're ideologically opposed to.  They could not have ditched those policies in 2010 or 2015, the polling was too ambiguous, but this time she/they thought they could rebrand and make their contempt for the lower middle class and working class homeowners quite explicit without significant electoral penalty.



Yes - but they could easily have said they were going to "review" social care provision - or other wording that would have given them wriggle room to do what they wanted post-election. Im astonished they stuck in the manifesto and clearly didn't forsee the shit storm it would unleash.


----------



## newbie (May 22, 2017)

strong and stable incompetence/arrogance/overreach


----------



## mikey mikey (May 22, 2017)

Well, well. tbh, I've never been one to place set much store by celeb endorsments, unless it's Patrick Stewart, but well, wow.


----------



## teqniq (May 22, 2017)

another sleb endorsement


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

newbie said:


> strong and stable incompetence/arrogance/overreach



stop saying "s**** and s*****" and start saying "dementia tax"


----------



## rekil (May 22, 2017)

There's a youngster on sky news in a lesbians and gays support the miners tshirt atm.


----------



## teqniq (May 22, 2017)

People are putting up 'Strong and stable my arse' signs up across London


----------



## mikey mikey (May 22, 2017)

New poll analysis: Watson, Skinner and Flint facing defeat. Cooper, Miliband, Reeves and Rayner on the edge «  Labour Uncut

Doom and gloom from Atul Hatwal


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> New poll analysis: Watson, Skinner and Flint facing defeat. Cooper, Miliband, Reeves and Rayner on the edge «  Labour Uncut
> 
> Doom and gloom from Atul Hatwal


but what do *you* think?


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

teqniq said:


> People are putting up 'Strong and stable my arse' signs up across London




i don't think this is helpful...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

chilango said:


> i don't think this is helpful...


...because...


----------



## butchersapron (May 22, 2017)

chilango said:


> i don't think this is helpful...


I agree - or at least it's not as helpful as using the  far more damaging slogan they've dumped right in your lap, one that's already now in public consciousness. Dt should be hammered.


----------



## teqniq (May 22, 2017)

_Which_ slogan?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

teqniq said:


> _Which_ slogan?


peace in our time


----------



## butchersapron (May 22, 2017)

teqniq said:


> _Which_ slogan?


Dementia Tax.


----------



## teqniq (May 22, 2017)

Thanks and yes I really think they have fucked up bigstyle with that one.


----------



## bi0boy (May 22, 2017)




----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> ...because...



It's still hammering in the words they want to be hammered in.

Use these two words instead. 

*Dementia. Tax.*

Make them the ones everyone associates with May and the Conservatives.


----------



## LDC (May 22, 2017)

Getting excited by Pink Floyd endorsements, have we reached that level already? ffs


----------



## agricola (May 22, 2017)

May has just u-turned, in Wrexham of all places.  One of the more absurd speeches of modern times - 



> And what is Jeremy Corbyn’s plan? He can promise a nonsensical, fantasy policy that can only be funded through massive tax rises on younger generations. In fact, just recently he threatened to increase the basic rate of income tax for millions of people from 20 to 25 per cent to fund social care. That tells you everything you need to know about Jeremy Corbyn’s answer to the problem.


----------



## teqniq (May 22, 2017)

I like the way she says 'my manifesto' rather than 'our manifesto'. Contemptible arrogance that will hopefully come back to bite her on the arse.


----------



## agricola (May 22, 2017)

That really did not sound like the speech of someone nine points ahead in the polls and heading for a landslide.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 22, 2017)

fucking hell. Has a party ever done such a massive u-turn in the middle of an election campaign? Weak and wobbly etc.
Internal polling must have been _really_ bad.


----------



## rekil (May 22, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Getting excited by Pink Floyd endorsements, have we reached that level already? ffs


The Moderate Pink Floyd would be a good name for a tribute act.


----------



## agricola (May 22, 2017)

in the Q&A after the speech - 



> _Q: Why did you grant asylum to the man arrested for the killing of Yvonne Fletcher?_
> 
> May says there are rules that apply to the granting of asylum.


----------



## JTG (May 22, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I like the way she says 'my manifesto' rather than 'our manifesto'. Contemptible arrogance that will hopefully come back to bite her on the arse.


Surely not a May thing, it's a Crosby etc thing. They know she's more popular than her party and they're going to town on that


----------



## mikey mikey (May 22, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Getting excited by Pink Floyd endorsements, have we reached that level already? ffs



Be honest; you have been sneering at Corbyn support for two years. You clearly never expected this latest upswing in support and I ask myself whether you welcome it either.



LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Is it just me or is anyone else finding the excited reaction of lots of radicals to this Corbyn thing really quite depressing?
> 
> It feels like people who should have better politics grasping at ever increasingly desperate straws uncritically: Syriza, The Green Surge, voting Labour/The Green Party, and now Corbyn... all of which so far have disappointed, as IMO Corbyn obviously will as well.
> 
> LDC





LynnDoyleCooper said:


> You're constructing a straw man argument.
> 
> I never said any of that guff about not talking to people outside the 'radical' milieu, in fact the cultural/friendship scene like nature of much of the UK left is something I think is a real stumbling block to a better movement.
> 
> And not 'sneering', I'm being critical of thinking parliamentary politics are the direction to go in, and the blind enthusiasm for Corbyn and Labour.


----------



## teqniq (May 22, 2017)

JTG said:


> Surely not a May thing, it's a Crosby etc thing. They know she's more popular than her party and they're going to town on that



Well I know I'm biased but this must be a new definition of 'popular' that I have been hitherto unacquainted with. I think she's fucking toxic, she makes my skin crawl. Moreover I think there that although you may in part for all I know be right, she has a massive autocratic streak. By all accounts the now discredited 'dementia tax' was not discussed in advance with other ministers, the first they knew of it was it's appearance in the manifesto.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 22, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Well I know I'm biased but this must be a new definition of 'popular' that I have been hitherto unacquainted with. I think she's fucking toxic, she makes my skin crawl. Moreover I think there that although you may in part for all I know be right, she has a massive autocratic streak. By all accounts the now discredited 'dementia tax' was not discussed in advance with other ministers, the first they knew of it was it's appearance in the manifesto.


She has a net +ve approval rating (approx. 17% IIRC) so better than many politicians


----------



## LDC (May 22, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Be honest; you have been seering about Corbyn support for two years. You clearly never expected this latest upswing in support and I ask myself whether you welcome it either.



Actually, I'm one of the few that seem to think Labour could actually win. Would I be pleased about that? Mixed feelings, but overall mostly yes. Although ask me ten years afterwards for a more accurate answer.

Do I find all the 'revolutionary anarchists/communists' getting so excited about Corbyn deeply depressing and desperate? Yes, although I do understand why.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 22, 2017)

I am enjoying this election campaign far more than i thought i would.

I assumed it would be a relentlessly depressing coronation parade with Corbyn being dragged behind Teresa's triumphal carriage.

But instead the tory's seem to have climbed aboard a clown car and are doing their very best to drive it into the nearest ditch.

Meanwhile plucky jezza  is appearing in their wing mirror on his (maoist) Bicycle ...

(the vermin are still going to win - but they wont enjoy it nearly as much. and nor will the blairites - so )


----------



## agricola (May 22, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> She has a net +ve approval rating (approx. 17% IIRC) so better than many politicians



She does, but I am not sure why she does - after all, she isn't associated with any positive reform, policy or other measure by which the public / some of the public would cherish her for it.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 22, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> She has a net +ve approval rating (approx. 17% IIRC) so better than many politicians



You'd think that's probably quite weak though wouldn't you. She's been given a very easy ride by the press, I don't know that will hold up when she has some trouble. 

It's certainly hard to imagine many people (even Tories) being genuinely enthusiastic about her.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 22, 2017)

Saw a bit of the Q&A after the speech in Wales on BBC news, May looks knackered.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 22, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Saw a bit of the Q&A after the speech in Wales on BBC news, May looks knackered.



yeah - I was just thinking the same thing. Shes seems to have aged about 20 years in six months. 
Corby seems to be going the opposite way -  being all high energy rock star at the libertines gig.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 22, 2017)

One thing I haven't missed in this election is the asinine rolling up of sleeves thing that Cameron and Gideon were doing to look 'workmanlike'.


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

May's whole schtick is that she appears competent and tough enough to handle the Brexit negotiations.

Now if she's flip-flopping all over the place about the Dementia Tax and the pressure from Jeremy fuckin' Corbyn is physically taking its toll, then that whole image is very very vulnerable, and she's got nothin' else.


----------



## JTG (May 22, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> You'd think that's probably quite weak though wouldn't you. She's been given a very easy ride by the press, I don't know that will hold up when she has some trouble.
> 
> It's certainly hard to imagine many people (even Tories) being genuinely enthusiastic about her.


It's way way better than any other party leader in the polls.

I'm not offering a personal opinion about her. This is what the polls say and this is why the Tory campaign literature, speeches and sloganeering uses the language it does. Because right now, May > Tory


----------



## Kilgore Trout (May 22, 2017)

Watched John McDonnell on the Andrew Marr show yesterday and he didn't seem to understand to understand what borrowing was which is a bit worrying.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 22, 2017)

JTG said:


> It's way way better than any other party leader in the polls.
> 
> I'm not offering a personal opinion about her. This is what the polls say and this is why the Tory campaign literature, speeches and sloganeering uses the language it does. Because right now, May > Tory



yeah - its all about making her a leader who is somehow "above politics" - a unifying, patriotic figurehead , fighting for the national interest etc.


----------



## Fingers (May 22, 2017)




----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2017)

the best bit about this is finding out JME is a vegan. 



now I want to know ~Skinnyman's dietary habits. He's been endorsing c-byn since before any mandem. islington is his ends


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> yeah - its all about making her a leader who is somehow "above politics" - a unifying, patriotic figurehead , fighting for the national interest etc.


Above politics but beneath contempt


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 22, 2017)

Fingers said:


>




What a complete cunt that cunt Dan 'The Cunt' Hodges is.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> One thing I haven't missed in this election is the asinine rolling up of sleeves thing that Cameron and Gideon were doing to look 'workmanlike'.


Yeh cos it makes people look ridiculous when they try it on and everyone knows they've never done a stroke of work in their lives


----------



## Fingers (May 22, 2017)

This morning's car crash in full


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2017)

copliker said:


> The Moderate Pink Floyd would be a good name for a tribute act.


piper at the gates of no.10


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh cos it makes people look ridiculous when they try it on and everyone knows they've never done a stroke of work in their lives


somehow managing to wear a hi-viz vest dishonestly. Not sure how, but it is.


----------



## killer b (May 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> piper at the gates of no.10


at the gates of dawning street, surely.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 22, 2017)

Channelling her inner patronising headteacher to the full.


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

Fingers said:


> This morning's car crash in full




She knows how damaging the term Dementia Tax is, and is desperate to stop people using it. You can see that in the last answer she gives.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> piper at the gates of no.10



my missus was in an all female band called "Dark Side of the Moon Cup".


----------



## Fingers (May 22, 2017)

chilango said:


> She knows how damaging the term Dementia Tax is, and is desperate to stop people using it. You can see that in the last answer she gives.



According to James O'Brien on LBC this morning, No. 10 have been calling LBC and asking them to tone down their rhetoric on dementia tax.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 22, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> One thing I haven't missed in this election is the asinine rolling up of sleeves thing that Cameron and Gideon were doing to look 'workmanlike'.



They don't seem to be doing "The Stance" this time around either.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2017)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> They don't seem to be doing "The Stance" this time around either.


legs akimbo power stance like you are in an anime and about to transform into your fighting mecha


----------



## Cid (May 22, 2017)

Fingers said:


> This morning's car crash in full




Even just the way she gets cracking with good ol' Laura, she'll be alright won't she? Won't she...?


----------



## Fingers (May 22, 2017)

Cid said:


> Even just the way she gets cracking with good ol' Laura, she'll be alright won't she? Won't she...?


Laura: What will the cap be set at?
PM Mayhem: Two minutes of waffle.


----------



## Cid (May 22, 2017)

The head shaking is becoming something of a weird mannerism too. Swainesque.


----------



## LDC (May 22, 2017)

If I had to place a bet based on that last video alone, I'd say she's fucked it and they're heading for a surprise defeat.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 22, 2017)

Conservatives buy 'dementia tax' Google ad as criticism of policy grows



> The Conservatives have paid for a Google advert that appears at the top of the page when users search for “dementia tax” in response to growing attacks on Theresa May’s social care policy.
> 
> People using the search engine on Monday to find out about the term, coined to describe the prime minister’s manifesto commitment to shake up the funding of old age care, found the top result was a paid-for link from Conservatives.com that read: “The so-called ‘dementia tax’ – get the real facts.”



Desperate stuff.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 22, 2017)

Cid said:


> The head shaking is becoming something of a weird mannerism too. Swainesque.



not a good look is it? 

and she _really _doesn't like criticising her does she?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Fingers said:


> According to James O'Brien on LBC this morning, No. 10 have been calling LBC and asking them to tone down their rhetoric on dementia tax.


The Dementia Tax?


----------



## rutabowa (May 22, 2017)

I think she needs to rethink that line "Noone will have to sell their home (WHILE THEY'RE STILL ALIVE)" that she keeps saying, it sounds kind of ghoulish.


----------



## JTG (May 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> The Dementia Tax?


The Dementia Tax


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> If I had to place a bet based on that last video alone, I'd say she's fucked it and they're heading for a surprise defeat.


----------



## LDC (May 22, 2017)

I see your repeated 'Alright!', but I raise you a Miliband tombstone.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2017)

rutabowa said:


> I think she needs to rethink that line "Noone will have to sell their home (WHILE THEY'RE STILL ALIVE)" that she keeps saying, it sounds kind of ghoulish.


isn't it also saying to lots of people 'we'll your ma won't have to sell up till she'd popped off but bye-bye to that house you were due to inherit a third of'


----------



## mikey mikey (May 22, 2017)




----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> I see your repeated 'Alright!', but I raise you a Miliband tombstone.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> I see your repeated 'Alright!', but I raise you a Miliband tombstone.


aka the heaviest suicide note in history


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

I  think there's hope that May will crack and provide us with one of these. Only a small hope, but hope nonetheless.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

chilango said:


> I  think there's hope that May will crack and provide us with one of these. Only a small hope, but hope nonetheless.


Maybe she'll get the alopecia like gail porter


----------



## Smangus (May 22, 2017)

God she's a shit politician.


----------



## Brainaddict (May 22, 2017)

Smangus said:


> God she's a shit politician.


She is, isn't she? Basically lucked into this job because the party was in shock after Brexit and all the other candidates were numpties.

I mean, why didn't she just lie about care in the manifesto? It's what the Tories do most of the time, and they didn't bother to cost anything else.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 22, 2017)

Smangus said:


> God she's a shit politician.



Yes. If she is PM from June 9th I anticipate things will nosedive very badly for her, the party and the country. She can't sustain being this awful in so many ways without major consequences and push-back.


----------



## newbie (May 22, 2017)

Smangus said:


> God she's a shit politician.


neither strong nor stable

she's personalised the May Party, may she they reap the consequences


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 22, 2017)

Smangus said:


> God she's a shit politician.



She is pants. We're well fucked with brexit.


----------



## Fingers (May 22, 2017)

Oh oh...  look what has appeared


----------



## Fingers (May 22, 2017)

Tory Dementia Tax


----------



## killer b (May 22, 2017)

Shame it isn't a bit less shit.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 22, 2017)




----------



## squirrelp (May 22, 2017)

'dementia tax' has a very strong resonance. This is going to hurt the Tories.

The other big factor is Corbyn's crowd pulling as opposed to Theresa's crowd avoiding. You can't fake this stuff. 

Another factor - the Blairites are starting to fall silent. This ain't going to be the landslide loss they wanted.

This gap is going to keep closing.

Game on!


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 22, 2017)




----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


>


But what do *you* think?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> She is pants. We're well fucked with brexit.


Fuck brexit, we're well fucked with may


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Yes. If she is PM from June 9th I anticipate things will nosedive very badly for her, the party and the country. She can't sustain being this awful in so many ways without major consequences and push-back.


On the positive side she could have a nervous breakdown at pmq, which would be worth watching


----------



## Wilf (May 22, 2017)

Smangus said:


> God she's a shit politician.


It's amazing that they selected her as leader when they had talents as grand as Michael Gove on offer.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> It's amazing that they selected her as leader when they had talents as grand as Michael Gove on offer.


Yeh. He picks his nose on telly tho, then looks at the snot while weighing up whether to wipe it off on the seat or eat it.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> It's amazing that they selected her as leader when they had talents as grand as Michael Gove on offer.



I always remind people that Gove / Pob appointed HIMSELF to write an INTRODUCTION to the BIBLE.

Every School To Receive A King James Bible, With Intro From Michael Gove | HuffPost UK


----------



## Wilf (May 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. He picks his nose on telly tho, then looks at the snot while weighing up whether to wipe it off on the seat or eat it.


At least with Gove we'd avoid a hard landing from Brexit.


----------



## Fingers (May 22, 2017)

What I think I can conclude from this morning's fiasco, the dementia tax damage was done. Even the Mail on Sunday was using the term.

By uturning it makes her look weak and unstable (undermining their main and only campaign theme) and it has blown up all over the media again.


Can see Labour catching up a few more points this week.  Labour need to be asking people if they can really trust these clowns to get us through Brexit.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 22, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I always remind people that Gove / Pob appointed HIMSELF to write an INTRODUCTION to the BIBLE.
> 
> Every School To Receive A King James Bible, With Intro From Michael Gove | HuffPost UK


always worth pointing out that this, according to Revelation, means he is deffo going to hell. Not that he hadn't earned the 5th circle already, this is just an extra technicality to get him on. Like how they got al capone for tax evasion rather than all them murders he had done


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Fingers said:


> What I think I can conclude from this morning's fiasco, the dementia tax damage was done. Even the Mail on Sunday was using the term.
> 
> By uturning it makes her look weak and unstable (undermining their main and only campaign theme) and it has blown up all over the media again.
> 
> ...


Never mind brexit, could they get us through 21 days of june


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 22, 2017)

From Corbyns Twitter feed:

We've just looked through @Theresa_May and the @Conservatives' social media and they've not once asked people to register to vote. #GE2017



 (emoticons are mine, not Corbyn's)


----------



## killer b (May 22, 2017)

Gove would've been a formidable PM. Dodged a bullet there.


----------



## treelover (May 22, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Conservatives buy 'dementia tax' Google ad as criticism of policy grows
> 
> 
> 
> Desperate stuff.



maybe but shows they understand social media.


----------



## treelover (May 22, 2017)

Cid said:


> Even just the way she gets cracking with good ol' Laura, she'll be alright won't she? Won't she...?




May doesn't look well, she has type 1 diabetes which can be awful.


----------



## Wilf (May 22, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> From Corbyns Twitter feed:
> 
> We've just looked through @Theresa_May and the @Conservatives' social media and they've not once asked people to register to vote. #GE2017
> 
> ...


Suppose they must think they got enough votes from the old folk already in the bag. Oh...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

treelover said:


> maybe but shows they understand social media.


If they understood social media they wouldn't be in the fix they are. They understand something quite different by sm


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

treelover said:


> May doesn't look well, she has type 1 diabetes which can be awful.


Yeh thought you'd be concerned about her


----------



## newbie (May 22, 2017)

I feel cheated.  where's my adverts?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 22, 2017)

treelover said:


> May doesn't look well, she has type 1 diabetes which can be awful.



And yet...

Tories rewrite the law to deny increased disability benefits to 150,000 people


> A spokesman for Disability Rights UK added: "These new regulations will hit disabled people and those with serious health conditions very hard.
> 
> "The DWP itself admits this will include for example those who have a learning disability, *diabetes*, epilepsy, anxiety or dementia."


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

treelover said:


> maybe but shows they understand social media.



Nah. People don't click those links. They won't click these. What they will see is those two words again. Dementia Tax.


----------



## Who PhD (May 22, 2017)

Shouldnt we now just call her Tautology May?

I havent heard a PM this incoherent in my lifetime.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> And yet...
> 
> Tories rewrite the law to deny increased disability benefits to 150,000 people


But have *you* an opinion on this?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Shouldnt we now just call her Tautology May?
> 
> I havent heard a PM this incoherent in my lifetime.


no


----------



## agricola (May 22, 2017)

killer b said:


> Gove would've been a formidable PM. Dodged a bullet there.








(sorry for the repost)


----------



## editor (May 22, 2017)

There is hope 
Labour now ahead of Tories in Wales with 16-point shift towards Jeremy Corbyn's party


----------



## xenon (May 22, 2017)

Yep making it about May is a big mistake. Her leadership style, dull but competent, obviously.. Apparently apeals to someone. But when half of what you're selling your competency on, Brexit, hasn't even started yet, the rest is problematic for some of your own side, forcing you to deliver a robotic clarification, AKA U Turn...

Presumed Tory win. But this stuff isn't going away come June 9th.


----------



## killer b (May 22, 2017)

agricola said:


> (sorry for the repost)


I've seen that before - it's nonsense though. Ask almost any lawyer how competent Gove was at Justice. And you simply can't deny he was grimly effective at Education - he pushed his entire programme through without breaking a sweat. The last campaign he was significantly involved with was Brexit, and we all know how that went...


----------



## Fingers (May 22, 2017)

Oh


----------



## butchersapron (May 22, 2017)

killer b said:


> I've seen that before - it's nonsense though. Ask almost any lawyer how competent Gove was at Justice. And you simply can't deny he was grimly effective at Education - he pushed his entire programme through without breaking a sweat. The last campaign he was significantly involved with was Brexit, and we all know how that went...


He looks silly.


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> He looks silly.



...but not in a "good" way like Boris.


----------



## Cid (May 22, 2017)

treelover said:


> May doesn't look well, she has type 1 diabetes which can be awful.



Why would you come out with that?


----------



## Fingers (May 22, 2017)

When you exclude Sky News from briefings....

I've never seen the PM so visibly rattled


----------



## Smangus (May 22, 2017)

The most remarkable thing is that it is all self inflicted, they were under no pressure at all.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Fingers said:


> When you exclude Sky News from briefings....
> 
> I've never seen the PM so visibly rattled


Weak and wobbly


----------



## Celyn (May 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. He picks his nose on telly tho, then looks at the snot while weighing up whether to wipe it off on the seat or eat it.


David Mundell picks bits out of his beard and eats said bits.


----------



## Cid (May 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Weak and wobbly



I hope that gets picked up on and run with.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Celyn said:


> David Mundell picks bits out of his beard and eats said bits.


Yeh. But you wouldn't believe what David Blunkett did next.


----------



## Celyn (May 22, 2017)

Hell, is he still around?

Shit, I just Googled and of course he's still around as a bloody lord.    Just can't get the guillotines these days.


----------



## agricola (May 22, 2017)

Smangus said:


> The most remarkable thing is that it is all self inflicted, they were under no pressure at all.



Exactly.  

One thing I didn't realise about today was that they launched this manifesto in Gresford (not Wrexham).  Who on earth makes a major political event in a village that is still remembered as being the site of a massive disaster, and one that happened under their watch?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

agricola said:


> Exactly.
> 
> One thing I didn't realise about today was that they launched this manifesto in Gresford (not Wrexham).  Who on earth makes a major political event in a village that is still remembered as being the site of a massive disaster, and one that happened under their watch?


Now it will be remembered as the site of two disasters


----------



## Fingers (May 22, 2017)

Theresa May/Andrew O'Neil interview at 7pm tonight on BBC.... she has had an appalling day so far, let us hope that continues.... probably the last thing she needs today

Monday: Mayhem (Conservative)
Tuesday: Nuttal (Astronaut and top  Premiership Footballer)
Wednesday: Fallon (Lib Dems)
Thursday: Sturgeon (SNP)
Friday Corbyn (Labour)


----------



## Fingers (May 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. But you wouldn't believe what David Blunkett did next.



When I worked for the Home Office I dropped a particularly nasty fart in a lift I was sharing with Blunkett. I am not sure he knew I was in the lift as he blamed his dog


----------



## agricola (May 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Now it will be remembered as the site of two disasters



The most recent being a disaster in the same sense of the word as Napoleon's retreat from Moscow was, or Crystanbul.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 22, 2017)

Fingers said:


> Theresa May/Andrew O'Neil interview at 7pm tonight on BBC.... she has had an appalling day so far, let us hope that continues.... probably the last thing she needs today
> 
> Monday: Mayhem (Conservative)
> Tuesday: Nuttal (Astronaut and top  Premiership Footballer)
> ...



Guardian is reporting that she's continuing in that interview to insist nothing has changed, which just looks fucking stupid. Long may that continue. Wish someone would ask about the immigration cap given on her terms social care will be such a struggle to pay for, but that would probably only play well with people who won't vote Tory under any circumstances anyway.


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

Cid said:


> I hope that gets picked up on and run with.



It's already popping up in my FB.


----------



## magneze (May 22, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> Guardian is reporting that she's continuing in that interview to insist nothing has changed, which just looks fucking stupid. Long may that continue. Wish someone would ask about the immigration cap given on her terms social care will be such a struggle to pay for, but that would probably only play well with people who won't vote Tory under any circumstances anyway.


If nothing changed why the panicked announcement today. How ridiculous.


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

Someone should spread a fake endorsement of May from David Moyes around. Kick her while she's down.


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

What do Theresa May and Wayne Rooney have in common?



Spoiler: Boom tish!



They're both gonna try and fuck your Granny...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 22, 2017)

This is the sort of thing I meant earlier when I was saying that the Tory campaign strategy was very vulnerable. Single point of failure. You base everything around one person and if they start looking like an arse you are in trouble - and you can bet your enemies will exploit any possibility of making that happen. It doesn't help when the person in question is clearly unable to think on their feet and deals badly with pressure.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> This is the sort of thing I meant earlier when I was saying that the Tory campaign strategy was very vulnerable. Single point of failure. You base everything around one person and if they start looking like an arse you are in trouble - and you can bet your enemies will exploit any possibility of making that happen. It doesn't help when the person in question is clearly unable to think on their feet and deals badly with pressure.


All that head shaking made her look utterly out of touch with reality. Her pr people will have been very disappointed with her body language.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> All that head shaking made her look utterly out of touch with reality. Her pr people will have been very disappointed with her body language.



yeah 'The Pasty Party' isn't a winning look.


----------



## treelover (May 22, 2017)

Apparently, the London, 'Stable my Arse' posters are the work of Jeremy Dellar


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

treelover said:


> Apparently, the London, 'Stable my Arse' posters are the work of Jeremy Dellar


Yes, widely reported


----------



## Santino (May 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yes, widely reported


But what do *you* think?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Santino said:


> But what do *you* think?


I think treelover's behind the curve again


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 22, 2017)

Don't like the sound of this Corbyn fella. He's trying to "sneak into number ten" by "playing on peoples fears" and "playing politics" Stable Maybot says...

Who is he, some sort of politician? Possibly a party leader engaged in a general election campaign and aspiring to be PM?


----------



## treelover (May 22, 2017)

'Sir Ian Bowler' defends the U Turn.


----------



## teqniq (May 22, 2017)

I know that some people aren't big fans of Eoin, who retweeted this but never mind the source, priceless. 

The guy does raise an interesting point though which I've seen other people asking and I've been asking myself, namely are the Tories trying to throw the election so that Labour get the blame for whatever Brexit deal finally gets negotiated? Or are they really that incompetent?


----------



## redsquirrel (May 22, 2017)

Incidentally have any voters outside the UK had their postal ballots arrive yet?


----------



## JTG (May 22, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Incidentally have any voters outside the UK had their postal ballots arrive yet?


Mate in Germany got his today


----------



## agricola (May 22, 2017)

They are even trying to bury bad news now.  Oh, the humanity!


----------



## redsquirrel (May 22, 2017)

JTG said:


> Mate in Germany got his today


Ta.


----------



## TopCat (May 22, 2017)

Fingers said:


> This morning's car crash in full



This is fabulous. It brightened my day hugely.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 22, 2017)

with that typeface, it  was alway going to be deller


----------



## xenon (May 22, 2017)

Of course they are not trying to throw it.  At the top, they are a politically inbred class  very short on talent  and  insight


----------



## teqniq (May 22, 2017)

xenon said:


> Of course they are not trying to throw it.  At the top, they are a politically inbred class  very short on talent  and  insight


This is what I am hoping to be the case but the fuckups have been so spectacular that I can't help but wonder is something more Machiavellian is afoot and it would seem that I am not alone in this.


----------



## Raheem (May 22, 2017)

teqniq said:


> are the Tories trying to throw the election so that Labour get the blame for whatever Brexit deal finally gets negotiated? Or are they really that incompetent?



Think there's a third possibility. That the May team is actually so hopelessly divided that you have a bit of sabotage here, a bit of passive-agression there, a bit of half-heartedness somewhere else, all adding up to a Tory party that does seem to want to throw the election, but not because that is anyone's plan as such.


----------



## butchersapron (May 22, 2017)

wtf is this bullshit?

Every party in this election  wants to crush the others. None of them can or want to control the result so they can win not big enough.

FFS


----------



## redsquirrel (May 22, 2017)

They still have a lead of ~9-14% with two and bit weeks to go, yes Labour has had a good week or so but it's not particularly surprising that the opposition should at least have some success in a GE campaign. Also, while there's clearly a bias in the press against Corbyn, a "are the Tories faltering" story is right up the presses street, as could be a "May re-steadies the ship" story.

One good thing for Labour if postal ballots are going out about now, people tend to either vote immediately or leave it to the last minute so a strong point for Labour coinciding with the ballots going out would be useful.


----------



## teqniq (May 22, 2017)

We'll have no bullshit round here, it's quality speculation is what it is.


----------



## Smangus (May 22, 2017)

I started watching Yes Minister on Netflix again in the last week, just thinking today of what a great episode this would make. Lol.


----------



## agricola (May 22, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Think there's a third possibility. That the May team is actually so hopelessly divided that you have a bit of sabotage here, a bit of passive-agression there, a bit of half-heartedness somewhere else, all adding up to a Tory party that does seem to want to throw the election, but not because that is anyone's plan as such.



Its daft to say they are throwing the election - but she has almost certainly wound a lot of them up the wrong way, and I am sure all manner of knives would be out if she won but not by enough.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 22, 2017)

They'll end up with another lib dem coalition, May will resign for fucking it up and they'll finally put Boris Johnson on the throne. 'Twas the plan all along.


----------



## chilango (May 22, 2017)

The Lib Dems are gone. They're sparking derision from everyone I've spoken to, from all sides. From all ages and all classes.

I think they'll drop even more seats. I still think they've a headline spectacular gain somewhere in them, but they'll still end the night down. 

There'll be no coalition with them.


----------



## Smangus (May 22, 2017)

Gurner in chief Farron doing them no favours.


----------



## existentialist (May 22, 2017)

treelover said:


> 'Sir Ian Bowler' defends the U Turn.



And in the process reiterates the phrase "Dementia Tax". Nice work, Tories.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

Smangus said:


> Gurner in chief Farron doing them no favours.


I understand he's secured the gurning community vote


----------



## Pickman's model (May 22, 2017)

treelover said:


> 'Sir Ian Bowler' defends the U Turn.



Treelover states the obvious


----------



## redsquirrel (May 22, 2017)

existentialist said:


> And in the process reiterates the phrase "Dementia Tax". Nice work, Tories.





> Sir Ian Bowler is the MP for Belmsford, a devoted father, and an enthusiastic belcher. He's junior Minister for jam innovation at DaFT.


----------



## rutabowa (May 22, 2017)

agricola said:


> Its daft to say they are throwing the election - but she has almost certainly wound a lot of them up the wrong way, and I am sure all manner of knives would be out if she won but not by enough.


George Osborne definitely threw her under a bus this morning at least... the shady bastard! haa ha haa


----------



## Plumdaff (May 22, 2017)

rutabowa said:


> George Osborne definitely threw her under a bus this morning at least... the shady bastard! haa ha haa



She sacked him. They despise one another. A lot of Tories think, for once rightly, that the dementia tax and immigration cap are idiotic policies she should drop and they are secure enough in the Tory victory to be sniping in public already. Let's hope they're overconfident.


----------



## rutabowa (May 22, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> She sacked him. They despise one another. A lot of Tories think, for once rightly, that the dementia tax and immigration cap are idiotic policies she should drop and they are secure enough in the Tory victory to be sniping in public already. Let's hope they're overconfident.


Yeh I remember, it wasn't long ago! It was just amusing how blatant it was, they are like primary school kids socially.


----------



## treelover (May 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Treelover states the obvious



Er, its satire.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 22, 2017)

Osbone is smart, whatgever else, he is clever- not Mandelson smart but understands the system, has always been on first name terms with it and is comfortable with being a politician and part of the game. May is a tiresome and mechanistic drone who probably works hard but would never be accepted into the clique really. Someone who supports foxhunting but would be invited to go along with Cameron kinda gal.A real life example of Mitfords U and non U tropes


----------



## TopCat (May 22, 2017)

xenon said:


> Of course they are not trying to throw it.  At the top, they are a politically inbred class  very short on talent  and  insight


If May gets done tomorrow morning with footage of her fucking a Great Dane then I would agree that the Tories are throwing a blinder.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 22, 2017)

it woul be a labrador if it was May. She has no sense of theatre.


----------



## Cid (May 22, 2017)

For my sins I'm watching her Andrew Neil interview...

Why the fuck has she got a massive silver chain round her neck? I mean fine, I try not to clock fashion too much. But it's a massive silver chain.

Also she's trotting out the 'they won't have to worry about it when they're alive' thing again, because elderly people don't give a shit about what happens to their property after they die.


----------



## TopCat (May 22, 2017)

Cid said:


> For my sins I'm watching her Andrew Neil interview...
> 
> Why the fuck has she got a massive silver chain round her neck? I mean fine, I try not to clock fashion too much. But it's a massive silver chain.


I don't know for the life of me why you give a fuck about her jewelry at a time like this.


----------



## TopCat (May 22, 2017)




----------



## Cid (May 22, 2017)

TopCat said:


> I don't know for the life of me why you give a fuck about her jewelry at a time like this.



Mostly first impressions watching while posting and drunk. Also quite visual in instinctive reactions and it just looks fucking weird in terms of symbolic choice. And what she's saying hasn't changed, so I'm just picking up on other shit.


----------



## Cid (May 22, 2017)

It's fucking Andrew Neil, if you can't deal with Andrew Neil you're shit.


----------



## TopCat (May 22, 2017)

Cid said:


> Mostly first impressions watching while posting and drunk. Also quite visual in instinctive reactions and it just looks fucking weird in terms of symbolic choice. And what she's saying hasn't changed, so I'm just picking up on other shit.


I'm drunk as well. 
The way at one point where she said the same shit again, slowly, as if to a tied, grimacing child.


----------



## TopCat (May 22, 2017)

I had a strange pleasure feeling when the journo's did her over, one by one.


----------



## Cid (May 22, 2017)

I've made it to the end, where they talk about wanting a good deal, but no deal being a better deal than a bad deal, but no deal is dire, but she's confident she can make a deal. And then following that up with 'I'm PM until the 8th of June'.

Might as well...


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 22, 2017)

TopCat said:


> I had a strange pleasure feeling when the journo's did her over, one by one.


 yup, she picked the Journos and each one was worse than the previous one for her. The Guardian ought to get a fucking grip though, their final Q was meh- they could have taken her to the cleaners on it


----------



## TopCat (May 22, 2017)

What caused her to call Michael Crick? 
She must have known. 
Were all the other journo's (who we could not see) carrying nooses and pikes?


----------



## Cid (May 22, 2017)

She did BBC, itv, sky first didn't she? Have to get to c4 eventually.


----------



## Smangus (May 22, 2017)

They smelt blood alright.


----------



## Sue (May 23, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Incidentally have any voters outside the UK had their postal ballots arrive yet?


Friend in Spain got his today.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 23, 2017)

Sue said:


> Friend in Spain got his today.


Ta.


----------



## Who PhD (May 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I know that some people aren't big fans of Eoin, who retweeted this but never mind the source, priceless.
> 
> The guy does raise an interesting point though which I've seen other people asking and I've been asking myself, namely are the Tories trying to throw the election so that Labour get the blame for whatever Brexit deal finally gets negotiated? Or are they really that incompetent?



That seems a little far fetched. The Tories are just incompetent; look at how incoherent and repetitive May is. These people think they are born to rule, and talent isn't required. They have no idea. She was shit as home secretary, happy to lie about cats.

They don't want to leave office, they are just shit in office and as this is a snap election they are less prepared than otherwise. Consequently their manifesto is a joke. Their arrogance is plain given they expect the plebs to lap it up no matter its uncosted.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 23, 2017)

treelover said:


> Er, its satire.





Who PhD said:


> That seems a little far fetched. The Tories are just incompetent; look at how incoherent and repetitive May is. These people think they are born to rule, and talent isn't required. They have no idea. She was shit as home secretary, happy to lie about cats.
> 
> They don't want to leave office, they are just shit in office and as this is a snap election they are less prepared than otherwise. Consequently their manifesto is a joke. Their arrogance is plain given they expect the plebs to lap it up no matter its uncosted.


This is a snap election they are less prepared?

Pisspoor

Who decided to call the election, chuck? This wasn't forced on them.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 23, 2017)

This is the question I want them to ask - you called this, it was on your timing, your decision. Couldn't you have worked out some figures on the back of a fag packet on the way to the commons vote? So fucking arrogant and clueless.


----------



## Teaboy (May 23, 2017)

A fucking gift for May overnight.


----------



## magneze (May 23, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> A fucking gift for May overnight.


I'm not so sure. Attack will have been timed because of the election that she didn't have to call and the persistent election message at present is that the Tories are in disarray and May is incompetent. That just hangs around.


----------



## 8den (May 23, 2017)

I presume the right wing press who said "violent madmen" shouldn't be allowed dictate the vote after the murder of Jo Cox, will show the same admirable restraint for the rest of this campaign.


----------



## teqniq (May 23, 2017)

Green Party candidates in Pembrokeshire pull out of General Election



> PEMBROKESHIRE Green Party is standing down its General Election candidates in both the Preseli Pembrokeshire and Carmarthen West & South Pembrokeshire constituencies.
> 
> The party said its two candidates, Valerie Bradley and Frances Bryant would no longer be running for the seats.
> 
> ...


----------



## Idris2002 (May 23, 2017)

8den said:


> I presume the right wing press who said "violent madmen" shouldn't be allowed dictate the vote after the murder of Jo Cox, will show the same admirable restraint for the rest of this campaign.


Ha ha, no.


----------



## chilango (May 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Green Party candidates in Pembrokeshire pull out of General Election



I suspect that (possibly with the exception of a handful of target seats) the Green vote will collapse as it's voters pile in behind Labour. But the Greens only have themselves to blame for this after all their "progressive alliance" nonsense and offering to stand down in seats.


----------



## JTG (May 23, 2017)

chilango said:


> I suspect that (possibly with the exception of a handful of target seats) the Green vote will collapse as it's voters pile in behind Labour. But the Greens only have themselves to blame for this after all their "progressive alliance" nonsense and offering to stand down in seats.


Even in target seats. Suspect that Bristol West is going to be a doddle for Labour now despite Green resources being thrown at it


----------



## CrabbedOne (May 23, 2017)

On Bloomberg Tories Break Through in Towns That Once Hated Them


> ...
> *Polls Whipsaw*
> 
> But fortunes in Wales can change quickly. A month ago, a poll showed Conservatives on track for a historic breakthrough. But on the day of May’s visit, a YouGov poll conducted for ITV showed that momentum had gone into reverse. Earlier on Monday, she announced a policy U-turn on an unpopular elderly-care plan that Labour had branded “dementia tax.”
> ...


Interesting little article this on May's appeal or Corbyn's lack of it in Labour constituencies. Or not, looking far from certain.

Funny really has folk scared about Brexit complexities or delighted by it both running towards a "strong&stable" Nanny State Thatcher like figure. A not very trustworthy lifelong Tory activist tactical advocating some softer positions and touting reliable electoral lies while looking fairly shifty. That's while May's slightly bonkers team has embarked on a potentially huge constitutional change with little oversight and flirts with a chaotic Hard Brexit while talking up grand globalising ambitions. May herself has almost no foreseen role in the talks but the Tory campaign is all about her ability to master Johnny Foreigner. The earnest 80s leftie Corbyn is spun as a dangerous mad man in the era of Trump. It's all a bit fragile, misdirected and very neurotic but maybe that fits the mood the country.


----------



## treelover (May 23, 2017)

Crosbyesque election meme by the PA.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> All that head shaking made her look utterly out of touch with reality. Her pr people will have been very disappointed with her body language.



It's not like she hasn't - like all cabinet ministers for the last 20 years - been given extensive tutoring in masking her body language, either.  Every time she gets rattled, though, she forgets her training, does the sneer, the headshake, and then the "you foolish mortals!" smirk.  She might as well hold up a placard saying "don't believe a word of it.  I don't!!!"


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 23, 2017)

Cid said:


> For my sins I'm watching her Andrew Neil interview...
> 
> Why the fuck has she got a massive silver chain round her neck? I mean fine, I try not to clock fashion too much. But it's a massive silver chain.
> 
> Also she's trotting out the 'they won't have to worry about it when they're alive' thing again, because elderly people don't give a shit about what happens to their property after they die.



She's been taking bling tips from Flava Flav again.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 23, 2017)

Cid said:


> It's fucking Andrew Neil, if you can't deal with Andrew Neil you're shit.


 Portillo reckoned that all you need to do is very obviously stare at his hair as though you're thinking "nylon, dead chihuahua, copper swarf?" and he loses it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 23, 2017)

TopCat said:


> What caused her to call Michael Crick?
> She must have known.
> Were all the other journo's (who we could not see) carrying nooses and pikes?



She was basically thinking "I can handle Crick, and doing so will enhance my rep".  Problem for May is she's nowhere near as sharp as she thinks she is.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 23, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> That seems a little far fetched. The Tories are just incompetent; look at how incoherent and repetitive May is. These people think they are born to rule, and talent isn't required. They have no idea. She was shit as home secretary, happy to lie about cats.
> 
> They don't want to leave office, they are just shit in office and as this is a snap election they are less prepared than otherwise. Consequently their manifesto is a joke. Their arrogance is plain given they expect the plebs to lap it up no matter its uncosted.



Some people are comparing May's situation as PM with Major's situation with his "bastards".  The two aren't really comparable, though.  Major had clear ideas about direction, and was willing to thin his own majority right down in order to deny the whip to the more Europhobic of his "bastards".  May, on the other hand, has continually shown that she's prepared to - like Cameron - capitulate to Euroscepticism in order to get an easy ride, hence a lot of firm commitments end up being rescinded, policies don't get formulated, and May's government ends up looking not only incompetent, they end up looking opportunistic, and as though their policy is decided by which direction the winds of fate are blowing.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 23, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> A fucking gift for May overnight.



Depends how she plays it.  If she plays it for party advantage - and she WILL - then the public may not be quick to forgive her.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 23, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Depends how she plays it.  If she plays it for party advantage - and she WILL - then the public may not be quick to forgive her.



The other problem she'll have when she tries to hint Corbyn is basically an Islamist, is that it's the Labour manifesto that's promised to increase policing (for all that Diane Abbott messed up the costings). It's not an easy sell to portray your opponents as soft on terrorism when that's the case - you need to be better at it than her anyway.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 23, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The other problem she'll have when she tries to hint Corbyn is basically an Islamist, is that it's the Labour manifesto that's promised to increase policing (for all that Diane Abbott messed up the costings). It's not an easy sell to portray your opponents as soft on terrorism when that's the case - you need to be better at it than her anyway.




tbf is Ms Abbott puts 1/2 million extra coppers out there the terror-scum will have a hard time of things.


----------



## billy_bob (May 23, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Depends how she plays it.  If she plays it for party advantage - and she WILL - then the public may not be quick to forgive her.



Yes, the only effective way to gain in stature in the longer term from your response to something like this is to appear very definitely to not be seeking any advantage from it in the short term. And to be fair it'd be very hard for almost any politician to think and act that way in the face of an imminent GE, never mind one as rigid and lacking in spontaneous warmth as May.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 23, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Yes, the only effective way to gain in stature in the longer term from your response to something like this is to appear very definitely to not be seeking any advantage from it in the short term. And to be fair it'd be very hard for almost any politician to think and act that way in the face of an imminent GE, never mind one as rigid and lacking in spontaneous warmth as May.



Mmmm, Theresa May and "spontaneous warmth"...

We are talking about "spontaneous human combustion", aren't we?


----------



## billy_bob (May 23, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Mmmm, Theresa May and "spontaneous warmth"...
> 
> We are talking about "spontaneous human combustion", aren't we?



Theresa May could be a life-saver companion for people prone to spontaneous human combustion, a bit like one of those dogs that sense when their owner's about to have an epileptic fit. The icy waves of inhumanity coming off her would stop it in its tracks.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 23, 2017)

Even if nobody tries to take advantage cynically, the mere interruption to the campaign is enough to have an impact. Labour had May on the run, that momentum (small 'm'!) is lost, her deficiencies out of the news. It may be hard to pick this up again, as the public will expect a softer tone from opponents and media for a bit.


----------



## Tom A (May 23, 2017)

Well to me Corbyn is doing all the right things presently, showing genuine compassion and not trying to make political gain out of it:


 Also I hope the public will now have gotten wise to politicians' attempts to "bury bad news".


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 23, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Even if nobody tries to take advantage cynically, the mere interruption to the campaign is enough to have an impact. Labour had May on the run, that momentum (small 'm'!) is lost, her deficiencies out of the news. It may be hard to pick this up again, as the public will expect a softer tone from opponents and media for a bit.



A lot of people, me included, expected the Jo Cox murder to sway the EU referendum in a way it ultimately didn't go. No way to predict the effects of these things really; you could argue that Corbyn's less hawkish approach to foreign policy might start looking more attractive to middle England. Right wingers digging up more tired crap about Corbyn and the IRA or Hamas or whoever could backfire horribly. Or the exact opposite might happen. 

Feels very cynical to even think about it but realistically this election is gonna have long term effects on everything, including how many more of these atrocities we're forced to endure.


----------



## Raheem (May 23, 2017)

Tom A said:


> Well to me Corbyn is doing all the right things presently, showing genuine compassion and not trying to make political gain out of it:



Thing is, that's probably pretty much the extent of what he can do while campaigning is suspended. Meanwhile, for May it's non-stop hospital visits, high-profile meetings with the police and summarising the mood of the nation in her role as quasi head of state, until such time as they decide they can't spin it out any longer.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 23, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Thing is, that's probably pretty much the extent of what he can do while campaigning is suspended. Meanwhile, for May it's non-stop hospital visits, high-profile meetings with the police and summarising the mood of the nation in her role as quasi head of state, until such time as they decide they can't spin it out any longer.



I'm sure she can manage the standard 'defiant' speech - they won't beat us, our values will continue etc. They're probably dreading her doing a hospital visit though, seeing as she generally looks like she hates people.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 23, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I'm sure she can manage the standard 'defiant' speech - they won't beat us, our values will continue etc. They're probably dreading her doing a hospital visit though, seeing as she generally looks like she hates people.


in this case looks are not deceptive


----------



## Wilf (May 23, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> A lot of people, me included, expected the Jo Cox murder to sway the EU referendum in a way it ultimately didn't go. No way to predict the effects of these things really; you could argue that Corbyn's less hawkish approach to foreign policy might start looking more attractive to middle England. Right wingers digging up more tired crap about Corbyn and the IRA or Hamas or whoever could backfire horribly. Or the exact opposite might happen.
> 
> Feels very cynical to even think about it but realistically this election is gonna have long term effects on everything, including how many more of these atrocities we're forced to endure.


Like you, I feel cynical posting this, but my political instinct is that May gains, particularly with the interruption to the Labour 'surge'.  However I think you are definitely right about the unpredictability of politics/public opinion at the moment.  The old levers of influence and persuassion don't works as well as they used to do.


----------



## Wilf (May 23, 2017)

More generally on the election though, detest her as I do, I thought May originally looked like a plausible leader for keeping a 'Tory + Brexit' coalition together.  However she really is abysmal on the campaign.  Brillo went soft on her 2 nights ago and didn't really go for her use of robotic platitudes instead of answers to his questions.  But she still came across as shifty, dishonest and unable to have the most simple, open conversation.  Probably failing the 'person you could have a pint with' test as much as anyone since Thatcher.  When pressed she looks furious and the whole bottom half of her face goes into a shit sniffing grimace.  I really don't mean her _appearance_, it's genuinely a sense of distaste coming through her phiz.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 23, 2017)

Classy Daily Mail cartoon today:


----------



## Wilf (May 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Classy Daily Mail cartoon today:
> View attachment 107490


Wow - and they presumably had time to pull that last night?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 23, 2017)

rothemeres rag keeping it classy


----------



## Dogsauce (May 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Wow - and they presumably had time to pull that last night?



The Sun was running a prominent piece on Corbyn gobbling IRA cocks or something equally infantile today, so I suspect it was just a pitch Crosby had got the Tory footsoldiers in the press to run with before the event happened.


----------



## Raheem (May 23, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> They're probably dreading her doing a hospital visit though, seeing as she generally looks like she hates people.



They won't send cameras in. It'll be Jane Hill or someone standing outside MRI breathlessly describing what is probably going on inside.


----------



## killer b (May 23, 2017)

They've been hammering the IRA stuff for days, so the mail cartoon  might just be un/fortunate timing. The sun published their hit at 2am though, so they defo had that on ice for this eventuality.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 23, 2017)

> Conservative candidate (and defending MP) for North East Somerset, Jacob Rees-Mogg, explains why rich Tories love foodbanks: their existence means they can be as callously brutal as they like to the poor and vulnerable, and other people will pick up the pieces.



Holy shit!


----------



## billy_bob (May 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> More generally on the election though, detest her as I do, I thought May originally looked like a plausible leader for keeping a 'Tory + Brexit' coalition together.  However she really is abysmal on the campaign.  Brillo went soft on her 2 nights ago and didn't really go for her use of robotic platitudes instead of answers to his questions.  But she still came across as shifty, dishonest and unable to have the most simple, open conversation.  Probably failing the 'person you could have a pint with' test as much as anyone since Thatcher.  When pressed she looks furious and the whole bottom half of her face goes into a shit sniffing grimace.  I really don't mean her _appearance_, it's genuinely a sense of distaste coming through her phiz.



People only seem to expect non-Tory politicians to pass the 'could have a pint with' test. Tories instead satisfy their secret half-yearning for someone to come along and steal their pint and refuse to allow them another one, because God knows they're never going to cut down their drinking for themselves, unless some fascist makes them do it.


----------



## bluescreen (May 23, 2017)

Is it just me who thought this whole thing could backfire on May?

Yep, it's just me. Still counting...


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 23, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Holy shit!




He really is as mad and as out-of-touch as his father was.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (May 23, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Holy shit!






> Conservative candidate (and defending MP) for North East Somerset, Jacob Rees-Mogg, explains why rich Tories love foodbanks: their existence means they can be as callously brutal as they like to the poor and vulnerable, and other people will pick up the pieces.



Huh? Where did he say that in the video?


----------



## Raheem (May 23, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Huh? Where did he say that in the video?



Have you played it backwards?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 24, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Huh? Where did he say that in the video?



That is the "blurb" by the guy who posted the video: Have you actually listened to what that twat does say?

_*Would you like a transcript?*_


----------



## tommers (May 24, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> That is the "blurb" by the guy who posted the video: Have you actually listened to what that twat does say?
> 
> _*Would you like a transcript?*_


I listened to it. It was nothing like the blurb. He said that he liked food banks as they showed that people cared about others who were in crisis and who the state had failed. 

Unrealistic, out of touch, wilfully ignoring the role of the government in the whole situation but I don't think you need to lie in order to make him look like a twat.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 24, 2017)

I thought the blurb was that guy's interpretation. The video was right there. Make a fuss about that blurb if you will, it doesn't change the fact that he said he liked foodbanks. And "out-of-touch"  and "unrealistic" are euphamisms bordering on apologetics. They're certainly an interpretation that is no closer to the reality of what this Tory said than the blurb. Letting tories off the hook with such descriptions enables them. c.f. Boris Johnson.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 24, 2017)

I hope Labour are being cautious about discussing how they play things in the wake of this terror attack - there'd be no surprises if some 'thinking out loud' takes place via email and then gets leaked by Blairite scumbags to Tory press to be used against them.


----------



## existentialist (May 24, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Green Party candidates in Pembrokeshire pull out of General Election


Yep. It's Tactical Voting Central around these parts. I don't know how easy it would be to unseat either, but the only way it'll happen is if there's a solid Labour vote. 

That said, I got doorstepped by two people (who, it turns out were, separately, people I know ), and with them was a slightly nerdy type who kept his distance and looked slightly uncomfortable. I later recognised him from a poster as the Labour Candidate Himself. I did find myself wondering if they couldn't have done better...


----------



## flypanam (May 24, 2017)

My in work conversations: One lib dem voter is switching to labour. One of the two Tories is wavering because the dementia tax and NHS shambles. The other says she's not voting this time as she's fed up with no pay raise for the public sector and feels her son will never own his own home but she can't bring herself to vote for Corbyn and believes labour have no hope in this constituency. Two others are voting labour.


----------



## chilango (May 24, 2017)

In work, although people are necessarily discreet about their views, one Tory voter (2010, 2015)  voting "very differently" this time around. One vocal abstainer, and a quiet but sustained anti-Tory feeling amongst the rest which previously led to some Green votes, sounds like all Labour now.


----------



## chilango (May 24, 2017)

However family and friends is a different story. Polarised. 

Wealthier & older people who may have voted Lib Dem or Labour in the past are all falling in line for May. Lib Dems and Corbyn both beyond the pale. 

Younger & poorer all going Labour.

Real two party stuff. No middle ground any more.


----------



## Cid (May 24, 2017)

chilango said:


> However family and friends is a different story. Polarised.
> 
> Wealthier & older people who may have voted Lib Dem or Labour in the past are all falling in line for May. Lib Dems and Corbyn both beyond the pale.
> 
> ...



I think I still know a few lib demmers, although they may end up ticking labour in the booth. I doubt any of them would vote tory... They view the lib dems in light of the coalition, as that oh so effective check on the Tories. But I think the hilariously weak logic of that may be sinking in as the yellow bastards stagnate in the polls. Though we're purely on anecdote here.

I think more widely the Manchester attack throws out any predictions. Having said that I'll have a go anyway - weakness of May pre-attack can't be built on by labour, and May is able to avoid many of the awkward questions/situations she was getting herself into. Media can't/won't press her for using the attack as cover. At best (for Labour) that means polls freeze at whatever they were just prior to the attack. It's difficult to see any positive outcome for labour; their campaign has been interrupted (and it will be tricky getting it off the ground again) and Corbyn simply can't have the media coverage May has. As others have said May is perfectly capable of trotting out scripted speeches, and that will probably be enough to shore up her vote.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 24, 2017)

chilango said:


> However family and friends is a different story. Polarised.
> 
> Wealthier & older people who may have voted Lib Dem or Labour in the past are all falling in line for May. Lib Dems and Corbyn both beyond the pale.
> 
> ...


Bet you about 30% won't vote tho, maybe more. There's other ground.


----------



## chilango (May 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Bet you about 30% won't vote tho, maybe more. There's other ground.



Hopefully that'll be the Tories. A couple of whom went on holiday in 2015 and forgot to sort out postal votes in time. Hopefully similar complacencies will strike the Tory voters I know this time around...


----------



## billy_bob (May 24, 2017)

chilango said:


> Hopefully that'll be the Tories. A couple of whom went on holiday in 2015 and forgot to sort out postal votes in time. Hopefully similar complacencies will strike the Tory voters I know this time around...



Low turnout generally favours (1) incumbents and (2) Tories, doesn't it?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 24, 2017)

The Trumps have taken a $100,000,000 kickback after selling the Saudis a fuckton of death machinery.

It's thus a pertinent question to ask if the tories or anyone else connected with our deals have made any side-gains out of working with Islamic extremists.

That's a question that won't be asked because our media is worse than fucking useless.

Ivanka Trump fund takes $100M from Saudi Arabia, UAE


----------



## mikey mikey (May 24, 2017)




----------



## chilango (May 24, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Low turnout generally favours (1) incumbents and (2) Tories, doesn't it?



things might change...


----------



## billy_bob (May 24, 2017)

chilango said:


> things might change...



Well I hope so too. But here, stick all these eggs in that basket you've got there, will you...


----------



## chilango (May 24, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Well I hope so too. But here, stick all these eggs in that basket you've got there, will you...



I've only got one egg, and it's someone else's basket  That's the problem....


----------



## billy_bob (May 24, 2017)

chilango said:


> I've only got one egg, and it's someone else's basket  That's the problem....



Actually, I threw all mine at Laura Kuenssberg.


----------



## gawkrodger (May 24, 2017)

Had my postal ballot arrive today


----------



## treelover (May 24, 2017)

Ukip to resume election campaign after Manchester attack

Its a political stunt for a failing party, but I do think the GE campaign should be restarted by the end of the week, not least because one party is certainly benefiting from the stasis.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 24, 2017)

treelover said:


> Ukip to resume election campaign after Manchester attack
> 
> Its a political stunt for a failing party, but I do think the GE campaign should be restarted by the end of the week, not least because one party is certainly benefiting from the stasis.


that's an improvement


----------



## treelover (May 24, 2017)

> *Corbyn says Labour will resume campaigning because terrorism must not 'derail our democratic process'*
> Jeremy Corbyn has said that Labour will resume campaigning later this week because terrorism must not “derail our democratic process”. He said:
> 
> The British people are united in their resolve that terrorism will not prevail. It will not prevent us going about our daily lives, or derail our democratic process. Resuming democratic debate and campaigning is an essential mark of the country’s determination to defend our democracy, and the unity that the terrorists have sought to attack.



Ah


----------



## Weller (May 24, 2017)

Strong and Stable - 6 penny food on yer table 

just wondering what was on the menu or what is likely to be

I think she can just about manage that soundbite 


> breakfasts is budgeted at just 6.8p per child per meal
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Pickman's model (May 24, 2017)

treelover said:


> Ah


But what do you think?


----------



## Supine (May 24, 2017)

Local campaigning restarts tomorrow and national starts on Friday. Reported on BBC.


----------



## Cid (May 24, 2017)

Guardian (citing education datalab think tank) are saying £170m for a 20% uptake on breakfasts.

Bearing in mind the government were hoping for £60m and (I think, just skimmed) 25%.


----------



## Raheem (May 24, 2017)

Cid said:


> Guardian (citing education datalab think tank) are saying £170m for a 20% uptake on breakfasts.
> 
> Bearing in mind the government were hoping for £60m and (I think, just skimmed) 25%.



I think the original plan was to give each student a slice of bread at hometime and set having toast for breakfast as homework.


----------



## billy_bob (May 24, 2017)

Raheem said:


> I think the original plan was to give each student a slice of bread at hometime and set having toast for breakfast as homework.



Don't they have cake of their own at home?


----------



## Raheem (May 24, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Don't they have cake of their own at home?



There probably wasn't time to do that sort of research.


----------



## Smangus (May 24, 2017)

Free goose fat and brown paper in winter.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 24, 2017)

Supine said:


> Local campaigning restarts tomorrow and national starts on Friday. Reported on BBC.




Good, it should. A suitable pause was inevitable and completely understandable, but a week is enough. I'd have thought. I hope that doesn't sound too callous, but I'm with Corbyn on this.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 24, 2017)

Having said that ...


Cid said:


> I
> I think more widely the Manchester attack throws out any predictions. Having said that I'll have a go anyway - weakness of May pre-attack can't be built on by labour, and May is able to avoid many of the awkward questions/situations she was getting herself into. Media can't/won't press her for using the attack as cover. At best (for Labour) that means polls freeze at whatever they were just prior to the attack. It's difficult to see any positive outcome for labour; their campaign has been interrupted (and it will be tricky getting it off the ground again) and Corbyn simply can't have the media coverage May has. As others have said May is perfectly capable of trotting out scripted speeches, and that will probably be enough to shore up her vote.


I think the above is almost overoptimistic. May will be much more immune to criticsm now  .. and that's not only the medi's fault ... Labour will have to be very careful, because plenty of voters will think attacking her politically, even on bread and butter issues, would be in bad taste 

Or am I wrong?


----------



## magneze (May 24, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Having said that ...
> 
> I think the above is almost overoptimistic. May will be much more immune to criticsm now  .. and that's not only the medi's fault ... Labour will have to be very careful, because plenty of voters will think attacking her politically, even on bread and butter issues, would be in bad taste
> 
> Or am I wrong?


Completely in my view. Pointing out the dementia tax shambles and the taking away food from children, fairly safe ground there. I'm sure there's more crap in the Tory manifesto too.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 24, 2017)

magneze said:


> Completely in my view. Pointing out the dementia tax shambles and the taking away food from children, fairly safe ground there. I'm sure there's more crap in the Tory manifesto too.




Hope you're right and I'm not ...


----------



## Supine (May 24, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Having said that ...
> 
> I think the above is almost overoptimistic. May will be much more immune to criticsm now  .. and that's not only the medi's fault ... Labour will have to be very careful, because plenty of voters will think attacking her politically, even on bread and butter issues, would be in bad taste
> 
> Or am I wrong?



Agreed. What corbyn needs to do in a time of national crisis is to show statesmanship, to give people confidence he can lead the country through bad situations. 

This is his weak point unfortunately.


----------



## magneze (May 24, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Hope you're right and I'm not ...


Labour can stay away from linking anything to the attacks (eg: police numbers). However, correct that might be, it's dangerous territory - Pensioners and kids are still getting screwed though - keep the pressure up on that aspect.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 24, 2017)

Supine said:


> Agreed. What corbyn needs to do in a time of national crisis is to show statesmanship, to give people confidence he can lead the country through bad situations.
> 
> This is his weak point unfortunately.




You say that,. but the statement quoted above (#1305) was surely pretty measured? And IMO the other statement he made after the attack was even better.

All that will be reported fairly in almost no media outlets at all though


----------



## Supine (May 24, 2017)

It got reported. I'm not sure it came over with gravitas or whatever but can't fault his words.


----------



## kebabking (May 24, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> You say that,. but the statement quoted above (#1305) was surely pretty measured? And IMO the other statement he made after the attack was even better.
> 
> All that will be reported fairly in almost no media outlets at all though



the speech was fine, as far as it went - the problem he has is that while he's sitting on his hands and looking moderately sensible, May is striding the stage and doing the two things she does well: making grave pre-prepared statements, and doing the national security thing.

Corbyn can't compete with that, firstly because this sphere isn't his thing whereas it is Mays', and secondly because May holds the levers of power and can be seen to weild them, while Corbyn has nothing.


----------



## Raheem (May 24, 2017)

kebabking said:


> the speech was fine, as far as it went - the problem he has is that while he's sitting on his hands and looking moderately sensible, May is striding the stage and doing the two things she does well: making grave pre-prepared statements, and doing the national security thing.
> 
> Corbyn can't compete with that, firstly because this sphere isn't his thing whereas it is Mays', and secondly because May holds the levers of power and can be seen to weild them, while Corbyn has nothing.



This is all true on the one hand, but May's record on police cuts presents her with a difficulty. The Police Federation said repeatedly that a consequence would be that the police would lose the national capacity to respond to a terrorist incident. And here we are. We'll have to see how things pan out, but I'm not sure it is entirely safe to assume that May is now fighting from higher ground.

That said, it may be that all May needs to do now is announce some draconian knee-jerk change to immigration policy that Labour can't support.


----------



## mx wcfc (May 24, 2017)




----------



## mx wcfc (May 24, 2017)

Police Federation crying wolf over cuts, says Theresa May - BBC News

*Police Federation crying wolf over cuts, says Theresa May*

20 May 2015

Theresa May: "Scaremongering does nobody any good"
Home Secretary Theresa May has told the Police Federation to stop "crying wolf" about the impact of financial cuts.

Speaking to the federation's annual conference, she said more savings would have to be made in the next five years.

And she accused leaders of the body of "scaremongering" over the effect of cuts while crime was falling.


----------



## Raheem (May 24, 2017)

Also, the IFS are due to report on the party manifestos in the next couple of days. They may or not be able to find things to criticise in the Labour manifesto, but its hard to imagine they are not going to tear the Tory one to pieces.


----------



## xenon (May 24, 2017)

kebabking said:


> the speech was fine, as far as it went - the problem he has is that while he's sitting on his hands and looking moderately sensible, May is striding the stage and doing the two things she does well: making grave pre-prepared statements, and doing the national security thing.
> 
> Corbyn can't compete with that, firstly because this sphere isn't his thing whereas it is Mays', and secondly because May holds the levers of power and can be seen to weild them, while Corbyn has nothing.



 Admittedly not her natural constituency, but putting soldiers on the streets of London  hardly says I've got this shit under control.  Posturing, expedient political flapping  public do something visible.  On a very small selective basis, talking to some guys in the pub who were from Manchester, it doesn't look good.  Protect Parliament and Buckingham Palace. Yeah well kind of thought they did that anyway. 

 Also, the security services knew him. Hardly says a lot for   Extending their powers.  Yes, I know it's operationally more complicated than that. But the pantomime. Who is buying it.  Admittedly it again, I'm in the labour save seats, not likely to bump into many Tory voters.  Well, none that would want to discuss politics with me.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 25, 2017)

The Tory press will double-down on the Corbyn-terrorist thing, don't expect any decency. They won't directly link it to this event, but enough nudges and dog whistles to draw people into making the connection. The IRA link will be flogged harder, plus there will be 'Jeremy and the jihadist' type shit like they tried to pull with Sadiq Khan, finding any occasion where he's been on the same platform or in the same room as someone dodgy, which will have more impact than it did in the London election. It'll drown out any other policy discussions.


----------



## Sparkle Motion (May 25, 2017)

Where have the opinion polls gone? The BBC poll tracker and UK Polling report have not updated for 5 days. Normally, hardly a day goes by without a new poll, sometimes two or three per day.


----------



## brogdale (May 25, 2017)

Sparkle Motion said:


> Where have the opinion polls gone? The BBC poll tracker and UK Polling report have not updated for 5 days. Normally, hardly a day goes by without a new poll, sometimes two or three per day.


I would imagine they'll resume today, after 11am, in line with the resumption of (local) campaigning?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 25, 2017)

Hanging back until the most marginal of gains by the Tories will be headlined with "Country Rallies to May in Crisis".

c.f. Tories losing in Glasgow is reported as "Victory"


----------



## killer b (May 25, 2017)

For real? Of course they aren't running polls atm.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 25, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Hanging back until the most marginal of gains by the Tories will be headlined with "Country Rallies to May in Crisis".
> 
> c.f. Tories losing in Glasgow is reported as "Victory"


yeh. and when your prognostication turns out to be nonsense, we'll return to this.


----------



## Fingers (May 25, 2017)

With the revelations coming out that the Police Federation predicted that there would be a terrorist attack and the need to deploy troops on the streets to replace to 30,000 officers that were cut and Mayhem dismissing it as scaremongering, this could be an election loser for the tories.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 25, 2017)

More police on the streets would have done fuck all. This is one of those situations where monitoring and intelligence would have been critical.


----------



## mojo pixy (May 25, 2017)

Labour don't need to say anything, except _thanks_; to UKIP, who are already on the case reminding everyone that May was the HS who cut thousands of police and prison jobs.


----------



## Fingers (May 25, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> I always remind people that Gove / Pob appointed HIMSELF to write an INTRODUCTION to the BIBLE.
> 
> Every School To Receive A King James Bible, With Intro From Michael Gove | HuffPost UK





Dogsauce said:


> More police on the streets would have done fuck all. This is one of those situations where monitoring and intelligence would have been critical.



32,000 more ears and eyes on the streets....  more community officers, more resources to keep an eye on those reported, no need for pound shop martial law...


----------



## bi0boy (May 25, 2017)

It's funny how the police are bad until a Tory government cuts their numbers. Now the Labour left want more police on the streets and more armed police, based not on evidence of their effectiveness at anything but just to go against what the Tories have done.


----------



## Teaboy (May 25, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> It's funny how the police are bad until a Tory government cuts their numbers. Now the Labour left want more police on the streets and more armed police, based not on evidence of their effectiveness at anything but just to go against what the Tories have done.



Its just a stick to beat the tories with, no?  Personally I think it's slightly dodgy ground for Labour and they'd be better off letting UKIP do the rabid dog act on this one.


----------



## Rob Ray (May 25, 2017)

I know the pundits outside Number 10 were bollocking on about this playing in May's favour, but a combination of the police wanting revenge/a reversal of the cutbacks and Labour's 10,000 new coppers pledge could be some potent stuff.

Honestly if you'd told me in 2015 I'd be watching Labour (led by Corbyn!) giving the Conservatives a kicking over inheritances and national security two years later I'd have thought you were totally crazy.


----------



## bi0boy (May 25, 2017)

Rob Ray said:


> I know the pundits outside Number 10 were bollocking on about this playing in May's favour, but a combination of the police wanting revenge/a reversal of the cutbacks and Labour's 10,000 new coppers pledge could be some potent stuff.
> 
> Honestly if you'd told me in 2015 I'd be watching Labour (led by Corbyn!) giving the Conservatives a kicking over inheritances and national security two years later I'd have thought you were totally crazy.



Perhaps if they added in corporal punishment, national service and further corporation tax cuts they might even stand a chance of winning.


----------



## Rob Ray (May 25, 2017)

You sound bitter — you know they're a political party right? It's not like they were ever going to offer a radical position on stuff.


----------



## kebabking (May 25, 2017)

Rob Ray said:


> I know the pundits outside Number 10 were bollocking on about this playing in May's favour, but a combination of the police wanting revenge/a reversal of the cutbacks and Labour's 10,000 new coppers pledge could be some potent stuff...



i'd be surprised if the PF went hard at May over this - theres certainly a great deal of personal animosity there, but do you think they fancy working for Corbyn and Abbot?

they also know that the political/funding priorities of a Corbyn/McDonnell/Abbot government mean that if theres a shortfall, or bits of the programme cost more than foreseen, its the Police/intelligence/defence budget that will get the shaft.


----------



## Fingers (May 25, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> It's funny how the police are bad until a Tory government cuts their numbers. Now the Labour left want more police on the streets and more armed police, based not on evidence of their effectiveness at anything but just to go against what the Tories have done.



Never said the police are all bad. Some are cunts though.


----------



## Raheem (May 25, 2017)

kebabking said:


> i'd be surprised if the PF went hard at May over this - theres certainly a great deal of personal animosity there, but do you think they fancy working for Corbyn and Abbot?
> 
> they also know that the political/funding priorities of a Corbyn/McDonnell/Abbot government mean that if theres a shortfall, or bits of the programme cost more than foreseen, its the Police/intelligence/defence budget that will get the shaft.



The PF don't necessarily need to make that decision, though, because they're already on record plenty.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 25, 2017)

Fingers said:


> With the revelations coming out that the Police Federation predicted that there would be a terrorist attack and the need to deploy troops on the streets to replace to 30,000 officers that were cut and Mayhem dismissing it as scaremongering, this could be an election loser for the tories.


it certainly will be if the armed cops / soldiers kill someone like harry stanley in the next few days


----------



## brogdale (May 25, 2017)

I know, I know...but, just for "fun"...



Discuss.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 25, 2017)

Vote UKIP for flying cars and er... mining of the asteroid belt.


----------



## kabbes (May 25, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Vote UKIP for flying cars and er... mining of the asteroid belt.
> 
> View attachment 107661


"Between 2009-11 I lost everything."


----------



## Dogsauce (May 25, 2017)

Landlords are 'entrepreneurs' now too.


----------



## LDC (May 25, 2017)

kabbes said:


> "Between 2009-11 I lost everything."



...including his mind it seems.


----------



## Fingers (May 25, 2017)

Theresa May's Police Cuts Exposed By Manchester Bombing Army Deployment - Police Federation | HuffPost UK


----------



## Cid (May 25, 2017)

Fingers said:


> Theresa May's Police Cuts Exposed By Manchester Bombing Army Deployment - Police Federation | HuffPost UK



Steve White again. Bloke whose job is lobbying for more rank and file police officers in lobbying for more rank and file police officers shock.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 25, 2017)

Yeah. Cos it's just him who said that, right?

What's next? 

I know. Let's ignore a spokeperson for a nurses' union who says people are at risk due to cuts in the NHS cos, y'know, _*"nurses gonna nurse".*_


----------



## agricola (May 25, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Vote UKIP for flying cars and er... mining of the asteroid belt.
> 
> View attachment 107661



I think they let him write the whole manifesto as well:





edit:  actually it may just be a windup on twitter, it doesn't seem to be in their actual manifesto


----------



## Teaboy (May 25, 2017)

I bet the UKIP manifesto is brilliant for things like this.  I bet they just came up with it down the pub where the phrase 'and another thing' appeared a lot.


----------



## Brainaddict (May 25, 2017)

agricola said:


> I think they let him write the whole manifesto as well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting to think of the monumental errors by the media and ruling class that allowed this bunch of kooks to push the UK into a crisis few of them wanted.


----------



## inva (May 25, 2017)

taupe


----------



## Raheem (May 25, 2017)

inva said:


> taupe



I guess they had to include some third colour to stop kids' books looking too Fenian.


----------



## Cid (May 25, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Yeah. Cos it's just him who said that, right?
> 
> What's next?
> 
> I know. Let's ignore a spokeperson for a nurses' union who says people are at risk due to cuts in the NHS cos, y'know, _*"nurses gonna nurse".*_



The two situations are clearly not analogous.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 25, 2017)

Same strategy.


----------



## inva (May 25, 2017)

Raheem said:


> I guess they had to include some third colour to stop kids' books looking too Fenian.


must have been the result of intense focus grouping i would think.

i would like a taupe star


----------



## NoXion (May 25, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> Yeah. Cos it's just him who said that, right?
> 
> What's next?
> 
> I know. Let's ignore a spokeperson for a nurses' union who says people are at risk due to cuts in the NHS cos, y'know, _*"nurses gonna nurse".*_



Coppers have a lot more (legal) ways to make the average person's life miserable than nurses do. Coppers are a in position of power, usually backed up by the courts. Do you not see how this unique dynamic might have a significant influence on what lobbying groups for coppers say and do?


----------



## Idris2002 (May 25, 2017)

brogdale said:


> I know, I know...but, just for "fun"...
> 
> View attachment 107658
> 
> Discuss.


SDLP but no SF?


----------



## Fez909 (May 26, 2017)

Had Labour canvassers at my door tonight. Only the second time in my life I've had politicos knocking for my vote*

She asked if I was voting and who for. I said _probably _Labour. She asked why probably, and not definitely. And then mentioned the candidate has just left and she wishes I could've spoken to her.

I explained it was the candidate (Rachel Reeves) who's the entire reason I'm finding it hard to vote Labour, as I want a JC victory.

Not sure if the next bit was bullshit/electioneering, but she said she knows how I feel. She was embarrassed to be out campaigning for RR, but it was worth doing to ensure JC has the biggest mandate/seats/whatever. She mentioned that the CLP had basically forced RR to shut up, and not brief against JC, or say much at all noteworthy in public or on record. Just keep her mouth shut and they'll do everything they can for her.

The best line was, "and to be fair, she's not briefed against him this year!" 

She seemed like a good sort, though, so I got the feeling she wasn't lying about her true feelings on JC/RR. She was pretty upbeat in general. Lots of positive feelings coming across.

I lied and said I'm now 99.9% voting Labour to make her feel better, and thanked her for the chat.

*Last time it was also Labour and I told them to fuck off.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 26, 2017)

yeah - Rachael reeves is my mp as well.


----------



## Fez909 (May 26, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> yeah - Rachael reeves is my mp as well.


would you vote for her? Feels properly dirty


----------



## free spirit (May 26, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Not sure if the next bit was bullshit/electioneering, but she said she knows how I feel. She was embarrassed to be out campaigning for RR, but it was worth doing to ensure JC has the biggest mandate/seats/whatever. She mentioned that the CLP had basically forced RR to shut up, and not brief against JC, or say much at all noteworthy in public or on record. Just keep her mouth shut and they'll do everything they can for her.
> 
> The best line was, "and to be fair, she's not briefed against him this year!"
> 
> She seemed like a good sort, though, so I got the feeling she wasn't lying about her true feelings on JC/RR. She was pretty upbeat in general. Lots of positive feelings coming across.


That sounds like my mate who's in Labour in that constituency, and there's certainly a contingent who were intending to attempt to force her out before this snap election made that impossible.

I was a bit taken aback by the strength of their rants against her, though tbf drinks had been drunk. I'd decided that I couldn't be a member of a party if it would mean campaigning for someone like her.


----------



## tommers (May 26, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> would you vote for her? Feels properly dirty


If the alternative is tories then yeah. You could hold your nose while you do it.


----------



## Bingo (May 26, 2017)

My MP is Reeves and she is scum, but anything else is a tory vote, so vote for her I shall.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 26, 2017)

From Rachel Reeves' Twitter account.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 26, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> would you vote for her? Feels properly dirty



Whats the choice? - and getting the labour vote share as high as possible will make a big difference with the post election shenanigans in the PLP.


----------



## Fingers (May 26, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Had Labour canvassers at my door tonight. Only the second time in my life I've had politicos knocking for my vote*
> 
> She asked if I was voting and who for. I said _probably _Labour. She asked why probably, and not definitely. And then mentioned the candidate has just left and she wishes I could've spoken to her.
> 
> ...



Pretty much everyone out there door knocking and doing the hard work are either fully paid up Momentum members and Corbyn supporters.  The Blairites are nowhere to be seen.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 26, 2017)

For some reason whenever I hear the name Rachel Reeves, I always confuse who it is with the coundown numbers woman Rachel Riley


----------



## Teaboy (May 26, 2017)

Fingers said:


> Pretty much everyone out there door knocking and doing the hard work are either fully paid up Momentum members and Corbyn supporters.  The Blairites are nowhere to be seen.



I think it's quite apparent that the Blairites would prefer to see a May victory.  Obviously the individual MP's don't want to lose their seat but they clearly find the concept of a Corbyn win horrifying.


----------



## Santino (May 26, 2017)

Rachel Reeves sounds like a superhero's civilian identity. Probably a photographer with the Metroville News.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 26, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> I think it's quite apparent that the Blairites would prefer to see a May victory.  Obviously the individual MP's don't want to lose their seat but they clearly find the concept of a Corbyn win horrifying.



Take a look over at DailyMailwatch forum and you will find quite a number of Labour moderate members that used to knock and dorrs etc. and constantly complained that new members did nothing to help. They now say that they refuse to knock on any doors, talk of voting LibDem and post stuff about how shit Corbyn is.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 26, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> From Rachel Reeves' Twitter account.


always had you down as a cooperite tbh


----------



## Pickman's model (May 26, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> For some reason whenever I hear the name Rachel Reeves, I always confuse who it is with the coundown numbers woman Rachel Riley


you and millions of others. the confusion explains her otherwise perplexing election.


----------



## newbie (May 26, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Whats the choice? - and getting the labour vote share as high as possible will make a big difference with the post election shenanigans in the PLP.


I guess your choice is the same as mine. If my spideysenses tell me Umuna will get in comfortably, which they do, I can safely either vote Green, or Socialistsomethingorother party or spoil. So that a nationally increased Labour vote is mirrored by a clear shunning of the previous big cheeses. If, otoh, it's in doubt then the default *keep the tories out* instincts take over.

I don't want Umuna at all, but I want a tory even less.


----------



## 8den (May 26, 2017)

According to Chatham House, Britain's generational split is as follows.

Labour
18-24 59%
65+ 19%

Conservative
18-24 19%
65+ 67%

So you see it's imperative to get out the youth vote.

Also start looking out for some deals, like say, a Groupon voucher for day trip away to Bath for your Nan. Because you love her that's why. Nope can't think of anything else happening on the 8th. It'll be a nice surprise. Bring some of your friends. Bring all of them.


----------



## J Ed (May 26, 2017)

Starting to see more and more Labour signs, both in public places and house windows, going up in marginal constituencies in the West Midlands.


----------



## bi0boy (May 26, 2017)

If no one has done an academic paper on the correlation between signs and vote share then someone should.


----------



## JTG (May 26, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> If no one has done an academic paper on the correlation between signs and vote share then someone should.


I've long been of the opinion that while Labour/Lib Dem/Green signs are an indicator of likely vote share in a given area, the lack of Tory signs rarely means a thing. They don't often like advertising their perversions


----------



## bi0boy (May 26, 2017)

JTG said:


> I've long been of the opinion that while Labour/Lib Dem/Green signs are an indicator of likely vote share in a given area, the lack of Tory signs rarely means a thing. They don't often like advertising their perversions



Plenty of Tory signs on farmland in Tory safe seats. Can't remember the last time I saw one in a garden. Perhaps they think rent-a-mobs would throw things at their windows or something.


----------



## JTG (May 26, 2017)

Yeah it's the gardens/windows that I'm thinking of


----------



## PursuedByBears (May 26, 2017)

Lots of Tory farm signs round Lancaster as well. Hope this means nothing.


----------



## killer b (May 26, 2017)

Urban Tory signs get defaced much more than the others, expect that's part of the reason they're rarely spotted.


----------



## JTG (May 26, 2017)

PursuedByBears said:


> Lots of Tory farm signs round Lancaster as well. Hope this means nothing.


It means landowners vote Conservative. Shocker


----------



## binka (May 26, 2017)

Are we all watching the Andrew Neil interview?


----------



## Wilf (May 26, 2017)

8den said:


> According to Chatham House, Britain's generational split is as follows.
> 
> Labour
> 18-24 59%
> ...


This is where Labour's large membership should* have been focused - getting young people canvassed and registered. 

*I say should, they could have been, but I haven't heard much about it.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 26, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Plenty of Tory signs on farmland in Tory safe seats


if you've that much land you probably don't have to look your neighbour in the eye very often, and even then they are conservative voters as well.


binka said:


> Are we all watching the Andrew Neil interview?


its on in the background. IRA questions again


----------



## chilango (May 26, 2017)

A few urban Tory signs in Reading East but as speculated on the dedicated thread for election signs this is likely to be landlords or letting agents rather than the people living there...


----------



## binka (May 26, 2017)

Just the ten minutes talking about the IRA then


----------



## free spirit (May 26, 2017)

binka said:


> Are we all watching the Andrew Neil interview?


link


----------



## DotCommunist (May 26, 2017)

I did lol a bit about 'most people watching won't know about your links to hardline rebuplicans'

its not like it hasn't been in the papers and on the tv a few times is it.


----------



## Wilf (May 26, 2017)

binka said:


> Are we all watching the Andrew Neil interview?


Coming across a bit dour. Could do with being a bit more optimistic, 'we can do better than this' type stuff.


----------



## agricola (May 26, 2017)

He did better than May, but he missed an open goal right at the start when Neil claimed IS existed before the invasion of Iraq.


----------



## Wilf (May 26, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Coming across a bit dour. Could do with being a bit more optimistic, 'we can do better than this' type stuff.


Ah, exactly what he just did about the manifesto.


----------



## 8den (May 26, 2017)

binka said:


> Just the ten minutes talking about the IRA then



Corbyn & Abbott's 30-year-old opinions on the IRA are apparently more important than the current deadlock in the NI Assembly.


----------



## JimW (May 26, 2017)

Shifty look fielding all those attack lines but it all seemed to be stuff we've had ad nauseam for years.


----------



## J Ed (May 26, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> If no one has done an academic paper on the correlation between signs and vote share then someone should.



A lot of commentators in the US mentioned a lack of Clinton signs as being a key indicator of lack of enthusiasm for her candidacy.


----------



## Fez909 (May 26, 2017)

I predict a slight dip in the polls for Corbyn after that interview - nothing good came out of it, but the stuff that was 'bad' was known about anyway and he handled it pretty well, I guess.

What I don't understand is how he fails to say the obvious(?) things when he's asked difficult questions:

Q: "You voted against Trident, so that means you don't support it, right?"
A: "I voted against it because I personally want a nuclear-free world, but I'm the leader of the party to represent the wishes of the public, not to dictate. And so I will support Trident as our manifesto says"

etc, etc.


----------



## tim (May 26, 2017)

8den said:


> So you see it's imperative to get out the youth vote.
> Also start looking out for some deals, like say, a Groupon voucher for day trip away to Bath for your Nan. Because you love her that's why. Nope can't think of anything else happening on the 8th. It'll be a nice surprise. Bring some of your friends. Bring all of them.



It didn't work in Berwick, for John Wilkes, the eighteenth Century version of Russell Brand.

.





> .	   In 1754, at the suggestion of Earl Temple, Wilkes stood for election to Parliament for Berwick-upon-Tweed—unsuccessfully, despite his bribing a captain to land a shipload of opposition voters from London in Norway instead of at Berwick.



John Wilkes | British journalist and politician


----------



## magneze (May 26, 2017)

He did say that albeit not in those words though. It's an annoying habit that 'tough' interviewer's have. Why won't you say these exact words I put in your mouth?


----------



## 8den (May 26, 2017)

tim said:


> It didn't work in Berwick, for John Wilkes, the eighteenth Century version of Russell Brand.
> 
> .
> 
> John Wilkes | British journalist and politician




So basically an 18th century Nigel Farage then



> Wilkes was extremely ugly, with a hideous squint,





> but had a charm that carried all before it. He boasted that it “took him only half an hour to talk away his face” and would declare that “a month’s start of his rival on account of his face” would secure him the conquest in any love affair.



Well maybe not.


----------



## tim (May 26, 2017)

8den said:


> So basically an 18th century Nigel Farage then
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Certainly not, a rather debauched and slightly corrupt chap with his heart in the right place, Jailed for standing up for our right to religious and political liberty and a nice cup of tea.







The Tories had his supporters massacred in Southwark for protesting against his imprisonment. I wouldn't put it past them again if Corbyn does too well and Martial Law has to be introduced.
Massacre of St George's Fields - Wikipedia


----------



## binka (May 26, 2017)

Krishnan Guru Murthy making Michael Fallon look like a fuckwit, low hanging fruit admittedly. 

(KGM reads out a quote and Fallon assumes it's from Corbyn, he lets him go off on one and tells him it was actually Boris Johnson)


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 27, 2017)

ha ha - fallon gets ambushed again!


----------



## agricola (May 27, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> ha ha - fallon gets ambushed again!



You have to feel for him.  Anywhere else in politics to be called an "attack dog" would be an honourable title, but not when you work for people who shoot them when they aren't able to run with the pack any more.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 27, 2017)

binka said:


> Krishnan Guru Murthy making Michael Fallon look like a fuckwit



I'm not sure much effort on K G-M's part was required


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 27, 2017)

Pretty funny though.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 27, 2017)

Have the Tories got desperate enough to wheel out shit celebrities with threats of leaving the country if 'Labour get in' because tax? Unusually complacent of them. Who do they even have any more? Gary fucking Barlow? Ken Barlow?


----------



## kabbes (May 27, 2017)

I wonder to what extent the Vote Leave campaign's systematic undermining of experts is now helping Corbyn bat off attacks on the cost of his manifesto.


----------



## J Ed (May 27, 2017)

kabbes said:


> I wonder to what extent the Vote Leave campaign's systematic undermining of experts is now helping Corbyn bat off attacks on the cost of his manifesto.



Lots, I hope


----------



## mikey mikey (May 27, 2017)




----------



## andysays (May 27, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


>



While it's certainly true that British foreign policy over past decades has contributed to the dangers of Islamist-inspired terrorism and the atrocities in Manchester the other night, I'm not sure how Corbyn pointing this out and promising that a future Lab gov under his premiership will do things differently (welcome though that is) will actually ally people's current fears or, crucially for him, persuade people to vote for JC/Labour at the GE.

Unless it's backed up with genuine measures (and I don't include demands for more police amongst those measures, inevitable as they are) which will address the perceived threat in the here and now, it looks too much like saying that he wouldn't have got us into the mess we now find ourselves in (conveniently overlooking that his party's past policy is just as responsible as the current Tory policy). 

It certainly does nothing to persuade those whose reaction to hearing that the now-IDed Manc bomber was already on a watch list was to say that anyone on such a watch list should now be deported*, which I've heard a couple of times in recent days, and in response to previous incidents.

*and TBClear, I'm not saying I agree with that reaction, but if people's genuine fears aren't addressed, such views are hardly surprising.


----------



## J Ed (May 27, 2017)

andysays said:


> While it's certainly true that British foreign policy over past decades has contributed to the dangers of Islamist-inspired terrorism and the atrocities in Manchester the other night, I'm not sure how Corbyn pointing this out and promising that a future Lab gov under his premiership will do things differently (welcome though that is) will actually ally people's current fears or, crucially for him, persuade people to vote for JC/Labour at the GE.
> 
> Unless it's backed up with genuine measures (and I don't include demands for more police amongst those measures, inevitable as they are) which will address the perceived threat in the here and now, it looks too much like saying that he wouldn't have got us into the mess we now find ourselves in (conveniently overlooking that his party's past policy is just as responsible as the current Tory policy).
> 
> ...



Without the Iraq War there would be no ISIS, without the NATO intervention in Libya there would be no ISIS in Libya. With that in mind, I think it is logical to say that re-electing a government composed of people who backed both wars does not bode well for the future and I think that's the message coming from Corbyn. 

Also, I'm not sure that you are right about the public. After the Madrid train bombings, the Spanish public kicked out Aznar partly because the government lied about the perpetrators and also partly because they recognised that the bombing was a consequence of Aznar's full throttle support for the Iraq War.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 27, 2017)




----------



## andysays (May 27, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Without the Iraq War there would be no ISIS, without the NATO intervention in Libya there would be no ISIS in Libya. With that in mind, I think it is logical to say that re-electing a government composed of people who backed both wars does not bode well for the future and I think that's the message coming from Corbyn.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure that you are right about the public. After the Madrid train bombings, the Spanish public kicked out Aznar partly because the government lied about the perpetrators and also partly because they recognised that the bombing was a consequence of Aznar's full throttle support for the Iraq War.



All that may or may not be true, but you're missing what was intended as the main point of my post, that whatever the causes of the terrorism (and we know pretty much what they are) unless JC's Labour provide some sort of policy in response which addresses people's fears in the here and now, they will fail to gain public confidence and therefore votes, and those fears will grow and other possible responses (eg deporting everyone on terrorism watchlists) will dominate the argument about how to respond.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 27, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


>


All quoting is by definition selective


----------



## mikey mikey (May 27, 2017)

Cherry picking is only gathering fruit.[/2@]


----------



## Cid (May 27, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


>



I very rarely put people on ignore. Kind of edging towards it now... Can't you just stick to spamming your mates' facebook feeds?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 27, 2017)

Why on Earth would a cartoon taking the piss out of Blair make you so upset?

Unless.....


----------



## agricola (May 27, 2017)

I know he has form for writing articles of this kind, but I can't believe that the Mail has published this piece by Peter Oborne.  It goes far further than Corbyn did.


----------



## CrabbedOne (May 27, 2017)

On Mainly Macro Theresa May

On the lack of strength and stability May's demonstrated in her time in office. He has a point here May's a jumpy critter who talks tough on things like immigration but has never delivered.


----------



## binka (May 27, 2017)

Have been taking a look at the Conservative Home website - reading the comments they are all fuming at the state of the Tory campaign.


----------



## CrabbedOne (May 27, 2017)

On Conservative Home Lord Ashcroft: My election model’s probabilities currently suggest a potential Conservative majority of 142

That's still pretty cocky though.


----------



## chilango (May 27, 2017)

The Labour Party were out this morning campaigning on the high street of Woodley a solidly Tory* leafy town in the Reading East constituency. 

They seemed happy, confident and well received. A real incursion. Seeing that, hearing kabbes tales from Dorking, it makes you start to wonder.

* 24/25 town council seats.


----------



## J Ed (May 27, 2017)

CrabbedOne said:


> On Conservative Home Lord Ashcroft: My election model’s probabilities currently suggest a potential Conservative majority of 142
> 
> That's still pretty cocky though.



He was also boosting the idiots on Labour Uncut who said that Kendall was going to win.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 27, 2017)

John Reid, former Home Sec and Baron

If Labour wants to win in 2020, it must choose Liz Kendall as leader | John Reid


----------



## Cid (May 27, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> John Reid, former Home Sec and Baron
> 
> If Labour wants to win in 2020, it must choose Liz Kendall as leader | John Reid



Do you have an opinion?


----------



## mikey mikey (May 27, 2017)

Why do you care?

Here: go get upset about a cartoon again


----------



## Cid (May 27, 2017)

Because you keep spamming otherwise interesting threads obviously.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 27, 2017)

No, my link to that article was related to the comment posted directly above. The cartoon that I have just posted is directly related to the title of the thread. If you think that I am spamming, you can put me on ignore and stop trashing the thread with comments about me.


----------



## J Ed (May 27, 2017)

andysays said:


> All that may or may not be true, but you're missing what was intended as the main point of my post, that whatever the causes of the terrorism (and we know pretty much what they are) unless JC's Labour provide some sort of policy in response which addresses people's fears in the here and now, they will fail to gain public confidence and therefore votes, and those fears will grow and other possible responses (eg deporting everyone on terrorism watchlists) will dominate the argument about how to respond.



The policy being put forward as an alternative is pretty clear, isn't it? It's a less interventionist foreign policy. Also, what I wrote was not a matter of opinion, there is no concievable way that ISIS would exist in Iraq without the 2003 Iraq War, there is no way that they would control a significant amount of territory in Libya without the 2011 NATO intervention in Libya.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (May 27, 2017)

chilango said:


> Woodley a solidly Tory* leafy town in the Reading East constituency



not sure it's that solid - woodley town council was limp dem until 2013 when one LD councillor became an 'independent' and started voting with the tories (more here) - think the LD's there suffered from the national meltdown.

wokingham labour do seem to be trying a bit harder than they did when i moved to the area (about 15 years ago) when they didn't even put up candidates in all council seats, and seemed to be going through the motions when they did.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 27, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> No, my link to that article was related to the comment posted directly above. The cartoon that I have just posted is directly related to the title of the thread. If you think that I am spamming, you can put me on ignore and stop trashing the thread with comments about me.


Or you could stop spamming the thread with shit


----------



## mikey mikey (May 27, 2017)

From Picky, that's an endorsment.


----------



## J Ed (May 27, 2017)

.


----------



## mojo pixy (May 27, 2017)

PursuedByBears said:


> Lots of Tory farm signs round Lancaster as well. Hope this means nothing.



Around Somerset and Devon it's like a sea of blue atm in the countryside, and I think this is kind of normal. Labour seem most common in Bristol though - also normal.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 27, 2017)

The BBC Making the Election about Terrorism - Craig Murray


----------



## gosub (May 28, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Have the Tories got desperate enough to wheel out shit celebrities with threats of leaving the country if 'Labour get in' because tax? Unusually complacent of them. Who do they even have any more? Gary fucking Barlow? Ken Barlow?



Actually had someone today sharing a 2015 face book post by Dennis Skinner about Katie Hopkins threatening to leave the country if Labour won. And somebody saying this was a "very good reason to vote Labour".   -  No, no it isn't, the vexatious witterings of that woman should in no way shape or form have any bearing on anything, especially as the words she's paid for ( by a dwindling number of employers) bear little correlation to her actions.


Week and a half of this vapid exercise left.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 28, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> From Picky, that's an endorsment.


No, it's really not.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 28, 2017)

You're right. Nothing really could be.


----------



## J Ed (May 28, 2017)

Caroline Lucas on TV seemingly agreeing that it is reasonable to get 'rid of' end to end encryption if the security services want to get rid of it. Her main (and only) argument against mass surveillance is that it is not an effective way of conducting surveillance. Christ.


----------



## gosub (May 28, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Caroline Lucas on TV seemingly agreeing that it is reasonable to get 'rid of' end to end encryption if the security services want to get rid of it. Her main (and only) argument against mass surveillance is that it is not an effective way of conducting surveillance. Christ.



its quite an effective way of conducting e-commerce though.


----------



## bi0boy (May 28, 2017)

Not many politicians seem to know what encryption is.


----------



## J Ed (May 28, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Not many politicians seem to know what encryption is.



Lucas definitely doesn't.


----------



## xenon (May 28, 2017)

I was catching up with May and Corbyn's interviews on Youtube... Now I'm getting those really hamfisted anti Corbyn ads. They're pro nothing. No vision, nothing on offer, just out of context quotes set to doomy music.

Vote for us, else, er... terrible things. Did the marketing spods learn nothing from the referendum campaigns.

Are there other versions.


----------



## J Ed (May 28, 2017)

xenon said:


> I was catching up with May and Corbyn's interviews on Youtube... Now I'm getting those really hamfisted anti Corbyn ads. They're pro nothing. No vision, nothing on offer, just out of context quotes set to doomy music.
> 
> Vote for us, else, er... terrible things. Did the marketing spods learn nothing from the referendum campaigns.
> 
> Are there other versions.



During the referendum surely both sides ran on a 'vote for us, else, er... terrrible things' platform.


----------



## xenon (May 28, 2017)

J Ed said:


> During the referendum surely both sides ran on a 'vote for us, else, er... terrrible things' platform.




Well, my recollection is the remain camp used fear tactics more prominently, with their allusions to economic melt down, war, chaos. Brexit more, take back power, we can do XYZ once we're out. (Nonsense though it may be.)

Of course I'm the wrong demographic for the YT ad I mention, but point is, people don't generally respond well to fear mongering, brow beating. See also, the problems with some climate change awareness campaigns.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 28, 2017)

Note that the government and press suddenly seem far more concerned with Northern Irish politics as they were 30 - 40 years ago, as a ruse for partisan point scoring, as compared to the current situation.

Where are the discussions, articles and even summits about what will happen to the border after Brexit? Nowhere.

The people of the 6 counties are just pawns, it's shallow beyond belief and more than whiffs of racism.


----------



## CrabbedOne (May 28, 2017)

In The Spectator Revealed: Conservatives revise down their internal election projections


> ...
> I understand projections for the election result have shifted dramatically. The internal ‘ceiling’ (the best case scenario) has gone from a majority of near 200 in week one, to a majority around the 80 mark. The ‘floor’ is now a hung Parliament — which is a worse case scenario and still an unlikely one. In response to the numbers, the Conservatives said they would not comment on ‘polls or projections’.
> 
> The mood in CCHQ is one of annoyance verging on anger. A majority of 80 MPs is what a lot of Conservative MPs have regarded as par since the election was first called, so anything below that will be a disappointment. Theresa May’s decision to run a tight ship with her two closest advisers — Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill — at the helm could come back to haunt her. Tories were only happy going along with the high levels of control freakery on the basis that it worked.
> ...


----------



## 8den (May 28, 2017)

Corbyn's SM team playing a blinder, quoting socialist footballers like Clough, Socrates and Chilavert







About a billion times better than Cameron "forgetting" he supports Villa.


----------



## CrabbedOne (May 28, 2017)

CrabbedOne said:


> In The Spectator Revealed: Conservatives revise down their internal election projections


I was just considering the 80 seat majority Tories are still hoping for in the context of past Tory Majorities: 

1974 Heath 30 seats short of a majority
1979 Thatcher 53
1983 Thatcher 144
1987 Thatcher 102
1992 Major 21
2010 Cameron 20 seats short of a majority
2015 Cameron 12
So a majority of 80 would be pretty respectable but facing Corbyn who most Tories regard as an utter no hoper and a Labour party in complete disarray May failing deliver at least a 1979 majority would be very disappointing.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 28, 2017)

For whom?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 28, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


> For whom?


----------



## chilango (May 28, 2017)

Sat in the gym cafe this afternoon after my workout.

Notice that the seats around and suddenly occupied by men in suits. Large men in suits. With earpieces. All round me.

Hmm.

Yep. It's her.


----------



## chilango (May 28, 2017)

...then returned home to find a very quiet Labour canvasser on my doorstep. Didn't even ask me who I was voting for.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 28, 2017)

chilango said:


> Sat in the gym cafe this afternoon after my workout.
> 
> Notice that the seats around and suddenly occupied by men in suits. Large men in suits. With earpieces. All round me.
> 
> ...


Diane Abbott?


----------



## chilango (May 28, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Diane Abbott?



Nope the "sick" and "tired" looking woman.


----------



## chilango (May 28, 2017)

Tell you what, it was pretty unnerving looking up from posting on urban to see myself surrounded by the secret service!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 28, 2017)

chilango said:


> Tell you what, it was pretty unnerving looking up from posting on urban to see myself surrounded by the secret service!


It wasn't tizzy may?


----------



## chilango (May 28, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> It wasn't tizzy may?



Tizzy?

Fortunately she'd slipped unnoticed into the changing rooms before I noticed the goons and after I'd finished my workout so no awkward encounters ensued.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 28, 2017)

chilango said:


> Tizzy?
> 
> Fortunately she'd slipped unnoticed into the changing rooms before I noticed the goons and after I'd finished my workout so no awkward encounters ensued.


She's always in a tizzy


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 28, 2017)

8den said:


> Corbyn & Abbott's 30-year-old opinions on the IRA are apparently more important than the current deadlock in the NI Assembly.



dunno if this has been posted up, but a summary of Uk/ IRA secret discussions over 30 years

Thirty Years Of Secret Talks And Negotiations Between Britain And The IRA


----------



## Pickman's model (May 28, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> dunno if this has been posted up, but a summary of Uk/ IRA secret discussions over 30 years
> 
> Thirty Years Of Secret Talks And Negotiations Between Britain And The IRA


1971 traditionally more than 30 years ago


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 28, 2017)

MI5 will be on my ass by morning for accessing republican sites


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 28, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> 1971 traditionally more than 30 years ago



grrrrr


----------



## Fingers (May 29, 2017)

Been out canvassing in Croydon Central today with some Urbs.  Swing. Only 150 ish votes between them in 2015. Our candidate is brilliant as well. If anyone wants to spend some of next weekend with us please give me a shout.


----------



## J Ed (May 29, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> MI5 will be on my ass by morning for accessing republican sites



Time for a haircut m8


----------



## mikey mikey (May 29, 2017)




----------



## teqniq (May 29, 2017)




----------



## JTG (May 29, 2017)

teqniq said:


>


That's awful. The image speaks far louder than the words there


----------



## teqniq (May 29, 2017)

Well like all artwork it's subjective, I thought it was quite amusing.


----------



## newbie (May 29, 2017)

sex sells and those expanses of young, toned female flesh sell her as attractive, desirable and neither weak nor wobbly. 

Selling her on weak and wobbly flesh (ie flabby, or perhaps elderly) would be equally inappropriate.


----------



## JTG (May 29, 2017)

newbie said:


> sex sells and those expanses of young, toned female flesh sell her as attractive, desirable and neither weak nor wobbly.
> 
> Selling her on weak and wobbly flesh (ie flabby, or perhaps elderly) would be equally inappropriate.


It literally depicts May as a superhero. It's awful


----------



## Idris2002 (May 29, 2017)

JTG said:


> It literally depicts May as a superhero. It's awful


Have ye forgotten Vatman?






This one was even worse: it even says 'vote conservative', and apparently a lot of voters saw it and thought it was a Tory advert selling Lamont as a superhero.


----------



## JTG (May 29, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Have ye forgotten Vatman?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Saw some posters at a festival this weekend that had "Vote Conservative to destroy the NHS; vote Labour to save it". Wasn't too sure about those either because the first bit at the top of the poster says "Vote Conservative"


----------



## teqniq (May 29, 2017)

So you think it might backfire? I am not so sure.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 29, 2017)

newbie said:


> sex sells and those expanses of young, toned female flesh sell her as attractive, desirable and neither weak nor wobbly.
> 
> Selling her on weak and wobbly flesh (ie flabby, or perhaps elderly) would be equally inappropriate.


Aside from the sexism, like Vatman before it, it is the product of a mind that thinks that superheroes are ipso facto infra dig, an Observer reader's idea of what counts as legitimate culture, and what does not. Which is understandable in 1992, but in 2017?

(but I take it this "Blunder Woman" thing isn't an official LP artwork?)


----------



## JTG (May 29, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Aside from the sexism, like Vatman before it, it is the product of a mind that thinks that superheroes are ipso facto infra dig, an Observer reader's idea of what counts as legitimate culture, and what does not. Which is understandable in 1992, but in 2017?
> 
> (but I take it this "Blunder Woman" thing isn't an official LP artwork?)


Doubt it, just the sort of thing that gets shared on facebook for giggles. Still rubbish


----------



## free spirit (May 29, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> (but I take it this "Blunder Woman" thing isn't an official LP artwork?)


no, just a facebook thing by a random


----------



## teqniq (May 29, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Aside from the sexism, like Vatman before it, it is the product of a mind that thinks that superheroes are ipso facto infra dig, an Observer reader's idea of what counts as legitimate culture, and what does not. Which is understandable in 1992, but in 2017?
> 
> (but I take it this "Blunder Woman" thing isn't an official LP artwork?)


If you click on the image it will take you to the page that originally posted it, but they don't seem to know where it came from either. Judging by the comments it's had a mixed reception there too. I am guessing the Wonder Woman image was chosen by whoever created it as there's a topical element to it in respect of the new film.

e2a oops sorry no it won't I did a screenshot. Here is the link


----------



## Idris2002 (May 29, 2017)

free spirit said:


> no, just a facebook thing by a random


This fucking (random) guy.


----------



## mikey mikey (May 29, 2017)

On more serious note.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 29, 2017)

How the Irish in Britain see the election, or some of them anyway:

'Anything to keep the Tories out': How the Irish living in Britain are voting in the general election


----------



## JTG (May 29, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> How the Irish in Britain see the election, or some of them anyway:
> 
> 'Anything to keep the Tories out': How the Irish living in Britain are voting in the general election


Bloody Irish, coming over here, voting Lib Dem


----------



## Idris2002 (May 29, 2017)

JTG said:


> Bloody Irish, coming over here, voting Lib Dem


We really must be congenitally stupid.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 29, 2017)

This is worth sharing towards neutral types:

From one of our American cousins on learning of the Manchester bombing:

"After reading this morning's terrible news, it struck me my friends in the UK need to hear something many Brits may not have considered.

If the Manchester Arena bombing had happened in the US, every family with a dead or injured member would begin receiving bills in the coming days. Parents who lost their children would get a detailed and unadorned list of services provided by the medics that tried to save their relations' lives. And they would be expected to start making payments immediately.

While they mourned heartbreaking losses, American families would be billed for the ambulance rides, morphine, CPR, anesthesia. They would be expected to pony up for surgeries that were unsuccessful, medication that didn't work, and the time the anesthesiologist spent trying to keep their children comfortable during major procedures. They would continue to receive those bills for month upon month after the death of their children.

Many families would set up GoFundMe accounts to pay for the medical expenses of their deceased child. The bills would run in to the hundreds of thousands, so even the best-funded account would only pay a fraction. The parents might have to sell their homes while trying to wrap their minds around the needless loss of their children. Ultimately, many would declare bankruptcy: who has time to pore over bills, fight the constant inaccuracies, totaling hundreds or thousands of dollars, when they're battling depression and anger?

Think about that. It's the kind of society you're really signing up for when you vote for a party that wants to privatise your healthcare. Please don't make that mistake."


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 29, 2017)




----------



## mikey mikey (May 29, 2017)




----------



## B.I.G (May 29, 2017)

mikey mikey said:


>




Don't worry urban. Watch that and then waffle on about how the tories getting in doesn't matter when you could throw the word liberal around.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 29, 2017)

Boris seems to be nicely car crashing on sky news


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 29, 2017)

That really was something , really showed his true colours trying to shout over the labour guy and not answering questions , he was looking desperate


----------



## Raheem (May 29, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> Boris seems to be nicely car crashing on sky news



I daren't switch it on. I'm too frightened of finding out that you just mean he's doing badly in an interview.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 29, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> This is worth sharing towards neutral types:
> 
> From one of our American cousins on learning of the Manchester bombing:
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing that. I've posted it on twitter, anonymously of course (as in you anonymous, not me). 

Fuck anyone who says we shouldn't use Manchester to score political points. What happened there _was_ political. Our response to it _is_ political.


----------



## agricola (May 29, 2017)

Damn you Andrew Neil, he was _this_ close to saying "the man who passes the sentence should wield the sword".


----------



## bemused (May 29, 2017)

I'm surprised how many people seem unaware that the 'dementia tax' already exists for people who have care outside the home. The Government can recover fees from your house, including interest, if you recive care in care homes.


----------



## treelover (May 29, 2017)

The Captain's back.


----------



## bemused (May 29, 2017)

agricola said:


> Damn you Andrew Neil, he was _this_ close to saying "the man who passes the sentence should wield the sword".



Paul Nuttall a future PM


----------



## agricola (May 29, 2017)

bemused said:


> Paul Nuttall and a future PM



And for illegally crossing a border, too.


----------



## Corax (May 29, 2017)

Why isn't this stupid fucking debate available to watch live on 4OD?


----------



## Cid (May 29, 2017)

Corax said:


> Why isn't this stupid fucking debate available to watch live on 4OD?



Innit... 

Possibly to do with the Sky tie in... will it be pay-per-view next time?

Still, at least it saves me from throwing stuff at my monitor.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 29, 2017)

It's on in the other room here, I can't make out more than the odd sound bite, so far 'hard working families' and 'high skilled, high wage economy' have been blurted out. I've realised how much I hate the tone of her voice, lecturing, bitter, arrogant. Sounds like they've stuffed the audience with her supporters from the applause, like last time round too.


----------



## Supine (May 29, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> It's on in the other room here, I can't make out more than the odd sound bite, so far 'hard working families' and 'high skilled, high wage economy' have been blurted out. I've realised how much I hate the tone of her voice, lecturing, bitter, arrogant. Sounds like they've stuffed the audience with her supporters from the applause, like last time round too.



You should watch. You'd realise it was corbyn not May on the tv 



The lad is doing well


----------



## Corax (May 29, 2017)

Supine said:


> You should watch. You'd realise it was corbyn not May on the tv
> 
> 
> 
> The lad is doing well


He is, ain't he?

Let's see what happens with Paxman...


----------



## Corax (May 29, 2017)

Will everyone stop banging on about Trident FFS.


----------



## Corax (May 29, 2017)

Paxman so far successfully pointing out that the Labour leader personally holds socialist views.

Fuckin 'ell...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 29, 2017)

*turns on LBC webplayer*

*rapidly turns off again'


----------



## Corax (May 29, 2017)

Now simply repeatedly pointing out illustrations of the Labour party not being run as a dictatorship.  Like, erm... the Tories.


----------



## Supine (May 29, 2017)

Paxman is a right cunt!


----------



## Corax (May 29, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> *turns on LBC webplayer*
> 
> *rapidly turns off again'


Yeah - good idea.

Can't cope with any more of this bellendery.  I just keep shouting at Paxman to grow the fuck up.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 29, 2017)

Supine said:


> You should watch. You'd realise it was corbyn not May on the tv
> 
> 
> 
> The lad is doing well



Must have been something else on, as it was definitely May's hectoring tone I could hear. Was something being repeated on one of the other channels?


----------



## Corax (May 29, 2017)

Supine said:


> Paxman is a right cunt!


Not even in the "rottweiler interviewer" sense though.  Just being a narcissistic dickhead.


----------



## JTG (May 29, 2017)

Switched off. I'm not interested in Paxman's ego and even less interested in giving him the ratings


----------



## DotCommunist (May 29, 2017)

he's got 1 interview technique. Ask the question and then start interrupting if the other fellow is being woolly and/or evasive. It works on dissemblers but when someone is giving clear answers and you just ride over them, well. Also the repetition of the favoured tory talking points. Make sure all they remember is paxmans questions. 

lifes too short for it really and I'm warm enough already


----------



## bemused (May 29, 2017)

The battle for number 10 thing was pretty pants tbh. I think Corbyn did better than May, although a leader of a party that's been in power seven years should get a harder time. I don't think I came away learning anything I didn't know beforehand.


----------



## Supine (May 29, 2017)

Oh man. Just seen the guardians first draft of a front page. Hope they make it sound more positive very soon. 

No link but shown on sky news


----------



## magneze (May 29, 2017)

I doubt it changed anyone's vote unless they'd never seen Corbyn before. He came across well.


----------



## newbie (May 29, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Thank you for sharing that. I've posted it on twitter, anonymously of course (as in you anonymous, not me).


I'm not sure if it originated on pastebin, or subsequently got copied there. Save The Alexandra Hospital claim it came from _Hannah Middlebrook (a warrior for social justice who lives in Tulsa, Oklahoma), writing on Tuesday.  _It's been picked up elsewhere and looks likely to go viral.

Are the central accusations actually true, does anyone know?


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 30, 2017)

This is astonishing.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 30, 2017)

I thought he was offering him out for a minute cos he'd gone into incoherent posh. Outside the EU parliament, pay per view. Thats a tradition now


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 30, 2017)

newbie said:


> I'm not sure if it originated on pastebin, or subsequently got copied there. Save The Alexandra Hospital claim it came from _Hannah Middlebrook (a warrior for social justice who lives in Tulsa, Oklahoma), writing on Tuesday.  _It's been picked up elsewhere and looks likely to go viral.
> 
> Are the central accusations actually true, does anyone know?



Central accusations being that bills for healthcare will be rolling in, and that people can eventually end up declaring bankruptcy? Is that what you mean?

Yes, that's true. Health care expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US. Even with insurance coverage - which varies wildly in what it covers and how much it covers of the ailments it does actually cover - patients still have to pay a certain amount, depending on their deductibles (the amount they have to pay before insurance starts paying) and the co-pay amount (to my knowledge the amount the insurer will pay while you pay some of it, a percentage ratio split between you - _I think_). Even with decent insurance a patient can still pay thousands. Once you get something your insurance doesn't cover (which is common), you can be looking at tens or hundreds of thousands.

Everything is charged for, from ambulance use to anaesthetic, food, the bed per day (not sure if worked out per hour), nursing, medications, all tests - blood tests (different types), imaging tests, etc... Imagine a lawyer who keeps itemised lists of every phone call, every 5 minutes spent working on a case, every letter written for a client, and so on - that's what medical bills look like in the US (although level of itemisation varies and inflated costs can be sneaked in by not itemising).

And yes, the bills will turn up right away.

American medical bill examples on Google.


----------



## extra dry (May 30, 2017)

Taken a step in to the world of conservatives by following the con. page on facebook. Looks like a lot of people buying the May story of her being a strong leadet yada yada Corbine is in bed with the IRA/ISIS etc.


----------



## newbie (May 30, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Central accusations being that bills for healthcare will be rolling in, and that people can eventually end up declaring bankruptcy? Is that what you mean?
> 
> Yes, that's true. Health care expenses are the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US. Even with insurance coverage - which varies wildly in what it covers and how much it covers of the ailments it does actually cover - patients still have to pay a certain amount, depending on their deductibles (the amount they have to pay before insurance starts paying) and the co-pay amount (to my knowledge the amount the insurer will pay while you pay some of it, a percentage ratio split between you - _I think_). Even with decent insurance a patient can still pay thousands. Once you get something your insurance doesn't cover (which is common), you can be looking at tens or hundreds of thousands.
> 
> ...


It was a poorly worded question, I was tired, but yes that is what I meant, specifically in the case of a major terrorist incident, because I was unable to find anything definitive about medical bills resulting from acts of terrorism within the US. US citizens appear to be indemnified for medical bills resulting from terrorism outside their borders by statute.

TBH I don't really have the skills or background understanding of US healthcare to properly fact check, but the position appears to be be patchy, varying with insurance company as well as state.  However the victims of the last two major terrorism incidents on US soil don't seem to have been billed for their immediate medical care.  Victims of the Boston bomb appear to have been covered by the state if they did not have their own insurance.  In the case of the Orlando shooting the hospitals didn't press uninsured charges. Longterm continuing care isn't quite so clear, but laws have been put in place to cover victims of the twin towers attack until 2090.

So while the basic assertion in the quoted piece may be true in the case of uninsured victims in some states it looks like in practice it's unlikely to work out like that, even before multi-million dollar fundraising kicks in.


----------



## bemused (May 30, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> This is astonishing.




I watched this, I think Boris knew what he was doing. He's too polished with is Tim nice but dim act to just melt down. To overwhelmed that space and got out the basic line we'll see for the next two weeks: brexit and immigration.


----------



## Corax (May 30, 2017)

Anyone found a transcript of last night's May/Corbyn stuff?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 30, 2017)

Bit confused about why people who have already decided on their vote are watching these TV things. What do they get out of it?
My timelines on social media are mostly Labour confirmed, yet they are still watching the leaders talk shit on the telly and getting all cross and capital-lettery about it on Twitter and Facebook.


----------



## YouSir (May 30, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Bit confused about why people who have already decided on their vote are watching these TV things. What do they get out of it?
> My timelines on social media are mostly Labour confirmed, yet they are still watching the leaders talk shit on the telly and getting all cross and capital-lettery about it on Twitter and Facebook.



They want other people to vote the same way and they want to see how the campaign is progressing.


----------



## YouSir (May 30, 2017)

bemused said:


> I watched this, I think Boris knew what he was doing. He's too polished with is Tim nice but dim act to just melt down. To overwhelmed that space and got out the basic line we'll see for the next two weeks: brexit and immigration.



Aye, someone told him to be aggressive to make up for the nonentity May, still did a bad job of it though.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 30, 2017)

May's press conference not going down too well on Facebook.


----------



## teqniq (May 30, 2017)

Cohen not penning an anti-Corbyn article? *pinches self to see if awake*

Theresa May lied and lied again to become PM | Nick Cohen


----------



## Pickman's model (May 30, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Cohen not penning an anti-Corbyn article? *pinches self to see if awake*
> 
> Theresa May lied and lied again to become PM | Nick Cohen


yeh. did you check the date, chuck?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 30, 2017)

I really don't think the title of this vid is entirely helpful, I hope it doesn't put people off.
However, the information is jaw-dropping and well researched, the established journalist had a similar piece in Salon a few days back - this is not conspiraloon tinfoil hattery.
We must not diminish the personal agency and evil of the bomber, but the back story really does matter too.
Theresa May was Home Secretary when MI5 re-established the "rat line" to Syria.
The press is not asking enough questions. They obsess about what Corbyn may have said to the IRA 30 years ago and keep their trap shuts about what May presided over in regards to Islamic terror in North Africa within this very decade.
We don't really have mainstream "journalism" as much as a sophisticated network of disinformation.


----------



## teqniq (May 30, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. did you check the date, chuck?


Aaaargh noooo, thanks. And there's me always pointing this out to people on fb.


----------



## Beermoth (May 30, 2017)

Phwooar!


----------



## Dogsauce (May 30, 2017)

Those Tory youtube ads can fuck off, and keep fucking off when they get there. Not sure annoying people like this is a good electoral strategy.


----------



## kabbes (May 30, 2017)

Back in 2015 on this very website I posted a series of information about what would happen if a certain percentage of non-voters were persuaded to vote Labour post-Corbyn.  Since it didn't anticipate the Brexit vote and collapse of UKIP, it's of limited value (the Tories are picking up those ex-UKIP votes now).  But it's kind of interesting nonetheless.  Here's just a few of the charts I posted at the time:

Pure additional non-voter engagement

 

Non-voter engagement plus some swing from other parties (including UKIP, which now looks rather stupid!)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 30, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Aaaargh noooo, thanks. And there's me always pointing this out to people on fb.


I had a check and Cohen hasn't had a go at Corbyn for almost three weeks, since A progressive alliance is misbegotten and doomed | Nick Cohen - he must be going bananas with the strain. Mind you, I'm sure we'll get them non-stop after the election, whatever happens. Even if Labour were to win we'd get "why Labour won in spite of Jeremy Corbyn".


----------



## JTG (May 30, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I had a check and Cohen hasn't had a go at Corbyn for almost three weeks, since A progressive alliance is misbegotten and doomed | Nick Cohen - he must be going bananas with the strain. Mind you, I'm sure we'll get them non-stop after the election, whatever happens. Even if Labour were to win we'd get "why Labour won in spite of Jeremy Corbyn".


He's done it today on Twitter over the Women's Hour thing. Rentoul's had a go as well. The pricks


----------



## JTG (May 30, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Non-voter engagement plus some swing from other parties (including UKIP, which now looks rather stupid!)


Not stupid at all - somebody has posted some data on one of the other threads showing that perhaps as many as 20% of 2015 UKIP voters have switched to Labour. It wouldn't surprise me at all.


----------



## JTG (May 30, 2017)

Got home this evening to a second Labour leaflet delivered to this Tory bit of Tory Bristol NW. Highlights the candidate's local credentials, attacks on the elderly in the Tory manifesto, education cuts and mentions the danger of a hard Brexit. Nothing about Corbyn, just goes heavy on who we want representing us in Westminster and that whatever Charlotte Leslie's claims of "getting things done" locally, it means nowt if she's busy voting away all our nice things on national legislation.

It's a good leaflet, the second different Labour leaflet delivered here and I think it shows some awareness of what it'll take to persuade people here to swing back to Labour as well as being evidence of a decent ground game locally.

The Greens have stopped campaigning in Bristol NW. I think there's a possibility Leslie's 4,000ish majority could go if Labour successfully mobilise their vote on the day


----------



## chilango (May 30, 2017)

JTG said:


> Got home this evening to a second Labour leaflet delivered to this Tory bit of Tory Bristol NW. Highlights the candidate's local credentials, attacks on the elderly in the Tory manifesto, education cuts and mentions the danger of a hard Brexit. Nothing about Corbyn, just goes heavy on who we want representing us in Westminster and that whatever Charlotte Leslie's claims of "getting things done" locally, it means nowt if she's busy voting away all our nice things on national legislation.
> 
> It's a good leaflet, the second different Labour leaflet delivered here and I think it shows some awareness of what it'll take to persuade people here to swing back to Labour as well as being evidence of a decent ground game locally.
> 
> The Greens have stopped campaigning in Bristol NW. I think there's a possibility Leslie's 4,000ish majority could go if Labour successfully mobilise their vote on the day



In another corner of Bristol BW I've witnessed the Tories ringing up to try and rally footsoldiers for the remaining days...

I really hope Leslie goes.


----------



## JTG (May 30, 2017)

chilango said:


> In another corner of Bristol BW I've witnessed the Tories ringing up to try and rally footsoldiers for the remaining days...
> 
> I really hope Leslie goes.


Discovered this morning that the council didn't receive my application for a postal ballot so have been trying to organise a proxy vote today. No way am I missing out on the chance to tip her out

As I've said before, if Labour can get Southmead/Lockleaze to turn out in force and persuade enough of Henbury/Avonmouth/Horfield/Lawrence Weston/Shire to swing then she's gone. They have the latent support, it just needs to be pushed out the door and into the polling station


----------



## Dogsauce (May 31, 2017)

Friends in Leeds that have been getting involved (most for the first time) have been getting out in marginals like Pudsey and Morley leafleting and canvassing. If what I see is replicated, Labour has a lot of motivated ground troops and are giving some thought as to where to send them. I reckon the Lib Dem in Leeds NW will be vulnerable to the student vote too.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 31, 2017)

Unfortunately I can't see Mulholland losing his seat, thought it would be great if the prick did.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

Leeds NW is my constituency, and I remain hopeful. There's a lot more students around each election and the younger vote might be more mobilised this time.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

The Graun now believes Corbyn WILL be at the debate tonite


----------



## treelover (May 31, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Those Tory youtube ads can fuck off, and keep fucking off when they get there. Not sure annoying people like this is a good electoral strategy.



Shame no one has created a hack, etc, to destabilise these ads, etc.


----------



## existentialist (May 31, 2017)

treelover said:


> Shame no one has created a hack, etc, to destabilise these ads, etc.


Shame there's always someone available to point the finger at _other people's failings_.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 31, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> The Graun now believes Corbyn WILL be at the debate tonite



My sources* confirm.

*go on, guess


----------



## chilango (May 31, 2017)

chilango said:


> In another corner of Bristol BW I've witnessed the Tories ringing up to try and rally footsoldiers for the remaining days...
> 
> I really hope Leslie goes.



One thing of note about this overheard conversation is that whilst the footsoldier was "fully committed" to helping, they really struggled to find a slot in their diary to do so. Social engagements took priority. I can but hope that the same is true across the country and the Tories' on the ground campaign is hobbled by their inherent selfishness...


----------



## J Ed (May 31, 2017)

chilango said:


> One thing of note about this overheard conversation is that whilst the footsoldier was "fully committed" to helping, they really struggled to find a slot in their diary to do so. Social engagements took priority. I can but hope that the same is true across the country and the Tories' on the ground campaign is hobbled by their inherent selfishness...



A lot of Tory footsoldiers, many of which last go round were accountacy firm employees, must surely be Cameroonians who are not half as enthused with May as they were previous leader.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 31, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Friends in Leeds that have been getting involved (most for the first time) have been getting out in marginals like Pudsey and Morley leafleting and canvassing. If what I see is replicated, Labour has a lot of motivated ground troops and are giving some thought as to where to send them. I reckon the Lib Dem in Leeds NW will be vulnerable to the student vote too.



i should be out canvassing in leeds nw this week - first time ive done it my life.  Same goes for a lot of friends. So yeah - labour seem to have a lot more people out their.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

As part of the Corbyn fightback we need to see if he can do the eating food without being weird trick which has floored May and Milliband. Possibly toast made with jam from fruit of his own allotment. 

Update - found one he passes the test with flying colours.


----------



## chilango (May 31, 2017)

J Ed said:


> A lot of Tory footsoldiers, many of which last go round were accountacy firm employees, must surely be Cameroonians who are not half as enthused with May as they were previous leader.



Yeah. I've heard precious little support for May just rote anti-Corbynism from Tories I've spoken too. One reason I hope the polls don't tip too far in his favour too early.


----------



## J Ed (May 31, 2017)

phillm said:


> As part of the Corbyn fightback we need to see if he can do the eating food without being weird trick which has floored May and Milliband. Possibly toast made with jam from fruit of his own allotment.
> 
> Update - found one he passes the test with flying colours.



wtf is he eating there?


----------



## MightyTibberton (May 31, 2017)

Looks dangerously like COSMOPOLITAN URBAN MEDIA ELITE FOOD TO ME!


----------



## MightyTibberton (May 31, 2017)

Or a sandwich with some yellow peppper on it. . .


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> The Graun now believes Corbyn WILL be at the debate tonite



great news he's on the offensive - May will be accused of 'being fritt' whatever that was back in the day. The Establishment and spooks will need to check out their 'Project Silent Coup' to see if it's still fit for purpose in the event of a Corbyn win.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

J Ed said:


> wtf is he eating there?



he eats weird food normally rather than normal food weirdly.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Then, after he had wrapped up his speech and received applause, Corbyn spoke to the crowd again to announce his news. He said:
_

I hope you will forgive me, I have to go now because I am going to go to Cambridge to get ready for the debate tonight because there is no hiding place. We’ll put our views out there and let the people decide. For the many, not the few._

*For the many not the few - pass it on. *


----------



## treelover (May 31, 2017)

Guardian saying Corbs is definitively game on for debate tonight.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 31, 2017)

Panic in the towers of Millbank.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 31, 2017)

Before the weekend, Lynton Crosby was given back the reins of the tory campaign.

I wondered what this could mean given that so much mud being thrown at Corbyn seems to have stopped working.

Today, the fascist headlines are belming once more about migration, the old standby topic.

The term ""Project Fear" was not first coined for the EU referendum, but by Crosby for his 2010 campaign.

It's back. Their visceral hatred and distrust of other human beings, the not-even-veiled racism.

There's no point us telling one another how awful the tories are or squabbling about voting Green in safe seats. We need to find the people, pages, groups populated by neutrals and target them with facts about the miserably failed economy, the lack of brexit strategy, the anti-human treatment of people with disabilities etc.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

I'm late to the Corbyn party - but very happy to have a drink at Jeremy's pub..

If Jeremy Corbyn Ran Your Local Pub


----------



## kabbes (May 31, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Before the weekend, Lynton Crosby was given back the reins of the tory campaign.
> 
> I wondered what this could mean given that so much mud being thrown at Corbyn seems to have stopped working.
> 
> ...


That worked when Labour were Tory-lite, because neither side were giving a positive message and if you are going to vote for austerity, you might as well do it properly.

It's a harder sell, however, to push fear in the face of hope.


----------



## The39thStep (May 31, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Before the weekend, Lynton Crosby was given back the reins of the tory campaign.
> 
> I wondered what this could mean given that so much mud being thrown at Corbyn seems to have stopped working.
> 
> ...


Not sure about the term 'fascist headlines' and completely stumped about 'belling'.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 31, 2017)

phillm said:


> I'm late to the Corbyn party - but very happy to have a drink at Jeremy's pub..
> 
> If Jeremy Corbyn Ran Your Local Pub



I liked this bit: 



> If Jeremy Corbyn ran your local pub, the managers of the bland chain pub down the road would be utterly perplexed by the fact people want to drink in Jeremy Corbyn's pub. "But our pub is obviously what people want," they'd say. "We've done extensive market research. Why are all these people drinking in a pub that can never be popular?"
> 
> If Jeremy Corbyn ran your local pub, sometimes the managers of the bland chain pub down the road would try and tempt drinkers away from Jeremy Corbyn's pub, by standing outside it calling them stupid.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Panic in the towers of Millbank.


hopes may rise in the grass dear but honeypie, we aint safe here


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 31, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Not sure about the term 'fascist headlines' and completely stumped about 'belling'.



oops, should be "belming" - going to edit. tx. ETA: it is "belming" anyway. 

It's not that really out-there to view The Mail, Express and Sun are fash-rags.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 31, 2017)




----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

_There are no changes to the prime minister’s plans.
_
LOL_

She is out campaigning today, engaging with voters about the issues that matter, * not swapping soundbites* with six other politicians. _

No. Fucking. Shame.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 31, 2017)

On the subject of Millbank, that march when it all kicked off and they smashed up Millbank. I was on that march. Sort of. We got the coach from Keele when the sun wasn't even up. There were several coaches going from Keele. We picked the wrong one. Our driver was a twat, and went the wrong way. "It's alright, I know a shortcut." A shortcut to hell, he meant.

When we finally got to London we had to travel some distance to find the end of the march. I think it was just about to pass Westminster when we got to it. After 20 minutes marching, the whole thing was called off because of the Millbank kerfuffle. Then we had to spend another several hours standing huddled in the cold by the side of the Thames waiting for the coach to try to find us again, in the midst of traffic chaos.

It was gone midnight by the time we got home.

What a day.

While we were there, we still managed to bump into the only 2 people we knew in London. By chance.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


>



Who fucking decided that Amber Rudd could stand in at the 'Leader's Debate'. They should have said no and put her cunt-face on the empty lecturn.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


>



Lovingly filled with her very own dehydrated piss.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Lovingly filled with her very own dehydrated piss.



She's married to Arthur Askey's reincarnated corpse - imagine her looks at the breakfast table when to break the icy silence utters his timeless catchpharse "it's turned out nice again'.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Lovingly filled with her very own dehydrated piss.


Wouldn't that be a powder though?


----------



## J Ed (May 31, 2017)

kabbes said:


> That worked when Labour were Tory-lite, because neither side were giving a positive message and if you are going to vote for austerity, you might as well do it properly.
> 
> It's a harder sell, however, to push fear in the face of hope.



Kabbes you have been critical of Corbyn for a while, and I've often found myself agreeing with some of your criticisms, but have things changed now do you think? In terms of possibilities, the view of the public towards Corbyn etc


----------



## JTG (May 31, 2017)

Bristol NW leaflet update: a third Labour leaflet has dropped through the letterbox and a second Tory one.

Labour: Large picture of Darren Jones "Your local pro-European candidate" (Bristol NW voted two thirds Remain).
Brexit stuff inside as well as schools, hospitals, housing & environment

Tory: "Charlotte Leslie Standing With Theresa May"
Letter from May inside on Brexit. Leslie has all the local stuff she always goes on about. All the cliches (Strong, stable v coalition of chaos), sinister pics of Abbott, Sturgeon, Farron and Corbyn, warnings that Corbyn as PM could happen.

Overall feel is that Labour is positive, Tory negative. Tory stuff looks tired, we've seen it all before (even the local candidate stuff has been done to death in previous leaflets over the years), Labour seems fresher, offering something we don't have already and personalised to the constituency in a way that the Tory one isn't.

Yes of course I'm biased. But Darren Jones seems to be doing a far better job than Charlotte Leslie here in campaigning to win Bristol NW


----------



## chilango (May 31, 2017)

JTG said:


> Bristol NW leaflet update: a third Labour leaflet has dropped through the letterbox and a second Tory one.
> 
> Labour: Large picture of Darren Jones "Your local pro-European candidate" (Bristol NW voted two thirds Remain).
> Brexit stuff inside as well as schools, hospitals, housing & environment
> ...



[roving reporter] Just walked past Charlotte Leslie's offices. They're looking very forlorn. Faded posters, all sun bleached and curling. Looks like they haven't even made the effort to spruce up the window display for the election  [\roving reporter]


----------



## Teaboy (May 31, 2017)

It's just complacency throughout with the tories as far as I can see.  Not many of them wanted the election I guess, they just want it over and done now.  They'll still win but it has been a shambles to say the least.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)




----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> It's just complacency throughout with the tories as far as I can see.  Not many of them wanted the election I guess, they just want it over and done now.  They'll still win but it has been a shambles to say the least.



Yeah your probably right - all this deluded optimism is heady stuff though. The boy done well.


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

this is a jolly read

'Theresa May Has Totally F*cked It Up' Tory Candidate Lets Rip At Dire Election Campaign | HuffPost UK


----------



## Teaboy (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> this is a jolly read
> 
> 'Theresa May Has Totally F*cked It Up' Tory Candidate Lets Rip At Dire Election Campaign | HuffPost UK



Yes indeed.  It does seem she's fucked off a load of people in her own party.  Far from strengthening her own position in the party she may have holed below the waterline. Its going to need some repairing this one.


----------



## pesh (May 31, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> _There are no changes to the prime minister’s plans.
> _
> LOL
> _
> ...


AKA no Theresa is better than a bad Theresa


----------



## Teaboy (May 31, 2017)

I am so sick of her answering everyone single question by saying 'First of all.....' and then not answering anything.  She's barely managed a single answer during this campaign.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> this is a jolly read
> 
> 'Theresa May Has Totally F*cked It Up' Tory Candidate Lets Rip At Dire Election Campaign | HuffPost UK


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 31, 2017)

12/1 for amber rudd as next tory leader


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 31, 2017)

russell brand has entered the fray -



> Theresa May has chosen to make this election about ‘personality’ rather than principles, which seems increasingly unwise. The delirious sycophant that had her ear when they were plotting this smash ‘n’ grab clearly saw Theresa as some kind of female Freddie Mercury set to dazzle voters from the podium rather than a vindictive librarian drawn by Quentin Blake.



made me chuckle anyway.


----------



## The Pale King (May 31, 2017)

phillm said:


> Then, after he had wrapped up his speech and received applause, Corbyn spoke to the crowd again to announce his news. He said:
> _
> 
> I hope you will forgive me, I have to go now because I am going to go to Cambridge to get ready for the debate tonight because there is no hiding place. We’ll put our views out there and let the people decide. For the many, not the few._
> ...



...This is how we will say hello and goodbye in the future...


----------



## Poi E (May 31, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> 12/1 for amber rudd as next tory leader



Another Home Secretary as PM? Doubtful.


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 31, 2017)

I know - twitter bollocks about the kniv s being out for mayhem already TBH though, she looks utterly broken. Have a day off tessa.


----------



## Poi E (May 31, 2017)

She has no appetite for the role and will go. Look forward to her kiss and tell account of a Tory party tearing itself down the middle.


----------



## pengaleng (May 31, 2017)

its disgusting that anyones linked theresa may with freddie mercury


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

pengaleng said:


> its disgusting that anyones linked theresa may with freddie mercury


it's disgusting that theresa may still breathes.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

Poi E said:


> Another Home Secretary as PM? Doubtful.


leader of the opposition, perhaps.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> I know - twitter bollocks about the kniv s being out for mayhem already TBH though, she looks utterly broken. Have a day off tessa.


no no no 

she may LOOK utterly broken but she needs a few more shit days to BE utterly broken.


----------



## pengaleng (May 31, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> it's disgusting that theresa may still breathes.




still breathes what? lighter fuel? hairspray?


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

pengaleng said:


> still breathes what? lighter fuel? hairspray?


our air


----------



## Fez909 (May 31, 2017)

This is nightmare fuel


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> This is nightmare fuel




Fuck me I won't like it - hope you have all your kids in bed. Plus she's fidgeting with her nails - she is a 'woman' in torment.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> This is nightmare fuel



that is a computer generated horror


----------



## billy_bob (May 31, 2017)

Christ, some of us sleep badly enough already y'know. Looks like something that was dug up in a pet sematary.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> that is a computer generated horror



I thought Wes Craven had died. For hapless hubbie Philip it must be like mating with a Black Widow (spider that is !).


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

A good find her  instagramm account is a veritable vault of horrors - thankfully given the number of followers relatively unfollowed. 

Theresa May (@theresamay) • Instagram photos and videos


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Sturgeon has bottled it.


----------



## magneze (May 31, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> This is nightmare fuel



House of Cards


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

Never seen that SNP bloke before.


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

phillm said:


> Sturgeon has bottled it.


She pulled out a bit ago


----------



## bi0boy (May 31, 2017)

editor said:


> Never seen that SNP bloke before.



He's the leader of the SNP in the commons, he's the only one I'd recognise easily.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Fallon looks like the kid off the Mad Comic of yore. A dull reading from autocue start.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2017)

Farron is just awful.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Jeremy should sing an arranged song ... or maybe not. I did it My WAY.


----------



## free spirit (May 31, 2017)

in order to have a strong economy we need to have a strong economy... Amber Rudd.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

Amber Fudd has fuddled it.


----------



## treelover (May 31, 2017)

Nuttall is really a hard right Tory, going down well sadly.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

Go Jeremy! Rudd is bloody hateful.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

treelover said:


> Nuttall is really a hard right Tory, going down well sadly.



Nah, he's just going down.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Farron is just awful.



and looks about 12.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

Why does anyone give a fuck what Nuttall thinks abut anything? UKIP are a busted flush.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

"Money tree" seems to be Rudd's catchphrase.


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

Amber Rudd has never played monopoly. Weird set piece that.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Amber Rudd has never played monopoly. Weird set piece that.



Yeah the different colours of money are different denominations, not different currencies.


----------



## N_igma (May 31, 2017)

Fuck I hate the Tories.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2017)

Amber Rudd has learned May's trick of looking like she's about to snap and lamp someone at any moment.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2017)

The host woman has a right bee in her bonnet about immigration.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

I like the way Leanne Woods is batting off the loaded questions.


----------



## treelover (May 31, 2017)

Corbyn has just let slip he wants more generous family reunion policies, that won't be too popular, though it will of course for the people affected.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

SNP fella, well said.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2017)

Nobody taking Husain's bait on targets or numbers of immigrants.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Corbyn strong on immigration shock.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

Oh dear Rudd trying to claim the higher moral ground on immigration.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2017)

'Coalition of chaos' drinking game is on.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Corbyn absolutely right to be there and May absolutely wrong not to be from a tactical point of view.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> 'Coalition of chaos' drinking game is on.



and confusion ..just added by AR.


----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

phillm said:


> Corbyn absolutely right to be there and May absolutely wrong not to be from a tactical point of view.



Dunno about that... She'd probably look like a fucking plank. Even more so than Rudd.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

Amber Shambles. "Judge us on our record!"


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

Rudd is hateful.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

When she speaks she does so in no doubt whatsoever that people will agree with her


----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

Buckaroo said:


> Amber Shambles. "Judge us on our record!"



I know... why do they walk into these things?


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Cid said:


> Dunno about that... She'd probably look like a fucking plank. Even more so than Rudd.



or someone who had stuck a dog toy up her arse.


----------



## teqniq (May 31, 2017)

I'm so glad I_'_ve got you guys here passing comment as a) I don't have a telly and b) I usually find these things cringeworthy and shouty by turns.

Meanwhile on Twitter:


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

Dementia tax tagteam.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

Come on, flounce!


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

It's Amber Rudd's mainfesto now. May will be deviling eyes into the TV.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

Rudd is getting roasted.


----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

'We've made a clear decision to protect the poorest in our society'

My god, the bare-faced lies.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I'm so glad I_'_ve got you guys here passing comment as a) I don't have a telly and b) I usually find these things cringeworthy and shouty by turns.
> 
> Meanwhile on Twitter:




 It's on five live to. FWIW


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2017)

Cid said:


> 'We've made a clear decision to protect the poorest in our society'
> 
> My god, the bare-faced lies.



Laughter from the audience, the second time she's been drowned out by derision.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Fallon got a punch home on the dement tax. Good on him. And Manchester health  services. Fuck the Tories.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Ade Edmonson on now nicking money from the Scots.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

treelover said:


> Corbyn has just let slip he wants more generous family reunion policies, that won't be too popular, though it will of course for the people affected.


Do you oppose more generous family reunion policies?


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

This will be interesting. How much mud  can rud   Throw without looking like an arsehole.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

Nuttall is getting scrapped, get rid of immigrants and save the 'monolithic' NHS, ya cunt.


----------



## wiskey (May 31, 2017)

aarrgghh stop them all talking at once!!


----------



## treelover (May 31, 2017)

Amber Rudd, "My manifesto"

mmm


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

Corbin, I agree with Angus.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Corbyn wants more coppers - that'll be popular with some folks here !


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

wiskey said:


> aarrgghh stop them all talking at once!!



Shoot them all at once!


----------



## gosub (May 31, 2017)

phillm said:


> Corbyn absolutely right to be there and May absolutely wrong not to be from a tactical point of view.



I thought the thinking was : the only real winners of the big set pieces are the 3rd parties, who get given a bigger voice than their position would normally allow for {i agree with Nick}


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

Why isn't John Bercow moderating?


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Why isn't John Bercow moderating?



They've let some intern do it instead.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

gosub said:


> I thought the thinking was : the only real winners of the big set pieces are the 3rd parties, who get given a bigger voice than their position would normally allow for {i agree with Nick}



that was the thinking - though it's definately adding weight to the Corbyn 'bandwagon' if there is such a thing.


----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

wiskey said:


> aarrgghh stop them all talking at once!!



Its made me think (well, reinforced) how utterly bizarre their world must be... Part Club, part debating society and part er... attempting to a country. The whole Westminster bubble is just truly odd.


----------



## treelover (May 31, 2017)

Corbyn playing a blinder, one has to wonder what the polls would show, without all the chicken coups, sniping, sitting on hands by the Blairites, etc.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

Waffle from Corbyn. Not good.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

John Goodman is now running the SNP !


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

treelover said:


> Corbyn playing a blinder, one has to wonder what the polls would show, without all the chicken coups, sniping, sitting on hands by the Blairites, etc.





littlebabyjesus said:


> Waffle from Corbyn. Not good.


Which of you to believe...


----------



## Maharani (May 31, 2017)

Corbyn has definitely got the majority of the audience behind him...


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

Actually good bit of parrying


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Corbyn definate 'winner' atm.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

Rudd's boss is a fucking terrorist enabler. She should shut the fuck up on this one.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

lol all four of my kids knew people who were in manchester that night.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

phillm said:


> Corbyn definate 'winner' atm.


So treelover on the ball and littlebabyjesus talking tosh?


----------



## gosub (May 31, 2017)

treelover said:


> Corbyn playing a blinder, one has to wonder what the polls would show, without all the chicken coups, sniping, sitting on hands by the Blairites, etc.



would be more interested in the ratings....4mil maybe 5mil


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Nuttall gones rogue EDL now - cunt.


----------



## wiskey (May 31, 2017)

.

<not my circus, not my monkeys>


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> So treelover on the ball and littlebabyjesus talking tosh?



I won't get drawn into cross thread beefs.


----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

Oh god, 'the Muslim Community'.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

phillm said:


> I won't get drawn into cross thread beefs.


I just want to know who is right on this here. No crossthread about it


----------



## Maharani (May 31, 2017)

Green's lady is good


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

Rudd is a car crash.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

wiskey said:


> .
> 
> <not my circus, not my monkeys>


Ta. On way home from work so can't see telly


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I just want to know who is right on this here. No crossthread about it



Can't stand still it's moving too quick to look back.


----------



## gawkrodger (May 31, 2017)

Amber Rudd putting her foot forward for the Tory leadership for when the knives come out


----------



## N_igma (May 31, 2017)

Why did she let Rudd off on the Saudi arms issue she was on the ropes there.


----------



## weltweit (May 31, 2017)

Maharani said:


> Green's lady is good


She usually makes good points imo


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

phillm said:


> Can't stand still it's moving too quick to look back.


Yeh nice swerve


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> Amber Rudd putting her foot forward for the Tory leadership for when the knives come out


Yeh better knives than guns or she'd shoot herself in said foot


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

N_igma said:


> Why did she let Rudd off on the Saudi arms issue she was on the ropes there.


She said it at least. Lucas the only coherent one on this.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

_Amber Rudd putting her foot forward for the Tory leadership for when the *stakes *come out._

Fixed


----------



## wiskey (May 31, 2017)

Maharani said:


> Green's lady is good


she is a wonderful speaker ... and always comes across as prepared and respectful


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Lock Nutall up. Now.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

SNP bloke bang on on right wing nut jobs causing terrorism. Fuck You Nutall. Corbyn caught the ball and ran with it.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

UKIP  stuff a nice shield for  The Tories really.  Let them say it.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

SNP fella lands in again against Nuttall with Brevik and Jo cox.


----------



## Tankus (May 31, 2017)

unedifying  ..


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Nutall. Britain First. WTF.​


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

I love that quote

'he's the leader of the free world whether we like it or not'

unpack that.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

Nuttall and the environment. You fucking twat.


----------



## bemused (May 31, 2017)

These TV debates are rather shit. Seven people all shouting over each other isn't a debate it's just an exchange of catch phrases.


----------



## Tankus (May 31, 2017)

> Adam Boulton(@adamboultonSKY)
> 
> There is something inevitably chaotic about these gang bangs. We won't see what I want: May v Corbyn, side order of Sturgeon #LeadersDebate


----------



## treelover (May 31, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Which of you to believe...



Give it a rest, obsessive.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

bemused said:


> These TV debates are rather shit. Seven people all shouting over each other isn't a debate it's just an exchange of catch phrases.


 Up to a point , Lord Copper as Evelyn Waugh would have put it.


----------



## JimW (May 31, 2017)

Dale Vince sponsors Jezza's comments on feed-in tariffs.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

UKIP  out on their own with the climate change stuff.  Britain first, forget the Paris achords  Trump is right et cetera.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

oooohh character question..


----------



## William of Walworth (May 31, 2017)

wiskey said:


> aarrgghh stop them all talking at once!!




I've been listening to it (reluctantly  ) -- room with TV is next door to small room with PC.

I hate constant cross-interrupting! 

Corbyn's been far from bad though -- when allowed to speak that is ....


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

Corbyn has won this crowd.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 31, 2017)

Rudd shit, Nuttall even worse.

Farron just bland/meh ... on top of him being a LibDem (ie Tory-collaborating) scumbag.

Lucas, Robertson good.

Leanne Wood has hardly has a look in at all ...


----------



## bemused (May 31, 2017)

Paul Nuttall reminds me of that one bullshit artist who knew everything before smartphones killed them off.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

Wham! Nice one Leanne Woods!


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

Strong and stable in 321.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 31, 2017)

editor said:


> Wham! Nice one Leanne Woods!





Finally got a chance!


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Jeremy Corbyn. Weak Team - Strong Leader.


----------



## Maharani (May 31, 2017)

Theresa May, the laughing stock.


----------



## wiskey (May 31, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> I've been listening to it (reluctantly  ) -- room with TV is next door to small room with PC.
> 
> I hate constant cross-interrupting!
> 
> Corbyn's been far from bad though -- when allowed to speak that is ....



I really don't think Mishal Hussain has done a great job tbh.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

First rule of leadership is to show up!


----------



## oryx (May 31, 2017)

editor said:


> Wham! Nice one Leanne Woods!


She's good at digs at Ukip - remember her refusal to shake hands with Farage after the 2015 debate.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Theresa May - She Ran Away.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

editor said:


> Corbyn has won this crowd.


He has, although I didn't find him impressive. Pretty stumbling, really. Lucas and the SNP bloke are the most impressive speakers.


----------



## JimW (May 31, 2017)

Teresa no-show getting a hammering.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Farron from Preston - good chap !


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

oryx said:


> She's good at digs at Ukip - remember her refusal to shake hands with Farage after the 2015 debate.


She can be quite on the ball 



> A Plaid Cymru AM has become the first to be ordered out of the Welsh assembly chamber after calling the Queen "Mrs Windsor".
> Leanne Wood refused to withdraw the remark, made during a debate on the Queen's Speech.
> 
> Presiding Office Lord Elis-Thomas then told her to "withdraw" for the rest of the day, and she left, accompanied by some other Plaid AMs.
> ...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

Farron's a prick.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 31, 2017)

Farrons just advocated corbyn


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

It doesn't matter how good Tim Farron is: I'll never, ever forgive his fucking party for letting the Tories in.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

We need to get this SNP chappie in the Coalition of Chaos !


----------



## bemused (May 31, 2017)

Tim Farron is awful. Why does he have to start every answer with an anecdote?


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

bemused said:


> Tim Farron is awful. Why does he have to start every answer with an anecdote?


Talking down Preston too the cunt. I grew up there in the 80s too, it was grand.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

Leanne  good U-turn points.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Talking down Preston too the cunt. I grew up there in the 80s too, it was grand.



wahey born and bred. Ful-woood !


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

xenon said:


> Leanne  good U-turn points.


I like her. I'd vote Plaid Cymru if I could.


----------



## J Ed (May 31, 2017)

Corbyn looks like a Prime Minister


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

Closing speech. Nutall, you will always be a cunt and you have been proven wrong on everything you cunt.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

She should finish in Welsh...


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 31, 2017)

Caroline Lucas won that for me.  Tories, UKIP shit.  Corbyn a wee bit shaky (sadly).  The rest between Corbyn and Lucas.


----------



## oryx (May 31, 2017)

Nuttall: It's been like Groundhog Day...

Yeah, like him banging on relentlessly about immigration and Muslims!


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

phillm said:


> She should finish in Welsh...


It's not her strongest suit:


> Wood, a socialist, republican and proponent of Welsh independence, is the first female leader of Plaid Cymru and the first party leader to be a Welsh learner rather than already fluent in the Welsh language.


----------



## bi0boy (May 31, 2017)

Doubt any of this will make a difference tbh, and none of them accidentally said cunt so it was quite boring.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 31, 2017)

Boom lol bake off


----------



## editor (May 31, 2017)

Good line!


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

*WE ARE THE COALITION OF CHAOS - WEAR THE BADGE WITH PRIDE!*


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

Vote May. She's not Corbyn. And um, that's it.


----------



## N_igma (May 31, 2017)

Credit is where credit is due and Farron did get stuck right into May's non attendance. Lib Dems are still scum though.


----------



## oryx (May 31, 2017)

Not a fan of Farron but his stand up comic-alike bit on May's absence was quite funny!


----------



## JimW (May 31, 2017)

There will be live reaction on the BBC news channels - where the bubble pundits will desperately try to stuff the cat back into the bag.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> none of them accidentally said cunt so it was quite boring.



I made myself hear Corbyn telling Rudd to fuck off when she came out with "you're friends with terrorists"


----------



## mrs quoad (May 31, 2017)

Amber Rudd's perpetual misery and confusion provided some of the most enjoyable tv I've seen in ages. 

#thisiswhatmyfacelookslikesuckinglemons


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

pfft



 That swung it for me. I'm voting for Tim. 

...


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

"You have to vote for us because the other parties don't agree with each other..."

Erm. K.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

xenon said:


> pfft
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He's from Preston and all his kids know people who live in Manchester. What else does anyone need to know?


----------



## wiskey (May 31, 2017)




----------



## Edie (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Talking down Preston too the cunt. I grew up there in the 80s too, it was grand.


Yeah but he grew up with a single Mum. He wasn't talking Preston down, he's a very proud northerner, he was talking from experience of having been brought up with fuck all money in the 80s. Of the three leaders, he's the only working class one.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> "You have to vote for us because the other parties don't agree with each other..."
> 
> Erm. K.


Aimed at getting out the tory vote rather than changing anyone's mind, I would have thought. Struck me that her whole performance had that single aim.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Vote May. She's not Corbyn. And um, that's it.



 But she is really strong.  You know like people who are really strong always tell you they are really strong.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

Farron can fuck off, it's not even the proper bake off!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

xenon said:


> But she is really strong.  You know like people who are really strong always tell you they are really strong.


... or get someone else to tell you, in this case.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Aimed at getting out the tory vote rather than changing anyone's mind, I would have thought. Struck me that her whole performance had that single aim.



Yep, simple repetitive statements for easy consumption by the old and befuddled.


----------



## gosub (May 31, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Farron can fuck off, it's not even the proper bake off!



 The pro one is even more mental :  RAFOdiham FTW.   Farron should fuck off though


----------



## bemused (May 31, 2017)

Oh jeez they've got Emily and some other no mark on the news now.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> ... or get someone else to tell you, in this case.



 But therein lies her real  leadership strength or  something.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

gosub said:


> The pro one is even more mental :  RAFOdiham FTW.   Farron should fuck off though



It's presented by Deayton, who, as I've told yous before, I consider responsible for this whole fucking shitfest.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

Still think the Tories will win but they will be wounded.

 Maze game   Of getting a strong majority so she can backtrack on  A deal over immigration  continuing ,  Will be derailed.  That's what I think she's up to anyway.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

xenon said:


> Still think the Tories will win but they will be wounded.
> 
> Maze game   Of getting a strong majority so she can backtrack on  A deal over immigration  continuing ,  Will be derailed.  That's what I think she's up to anyway.


Oh, at the moment, she's just up to desperately clinging to power.

Their new message - to warn against the 'coalition of chaos' - may work, I suppose, but problem there is that, if you unpick it, there was a fair bit of agreement among Labour, the SNP, Plaid and the Greens, and even the libdem. Doesn't matter, though. It's a warning to tories not to sit on their hands. It's actually saying 'maybe we're shit, but you don't want Corbyn do you, so you'd better turn out'.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 31, 2017)

JimW said:


> There will be live reaction on the BBC news channels - where the bubble pundits will desperately try to stuff the cat back into the bag.


While the enraged cat tries to claw their faces off.


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

Fucking hell. Amber Rudd' s dad died on Monday and May still sent her into work.


----------



## J Ed (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Fucking hell. Amber Rudd' s dad died on Monday and May still sent her into work.



Yes, I just read that. The nasty party.


----------



## The Octagon (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Fucking hell. Amber Rudd' s dad died on Monday and May still sent her into work.



Compassionate Conservatism


----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

Fucking hell, that's beyond grim.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Fucking hell. Amber Rudd' s dad died on Monday and May still sent her into work.



No, she refered her to ATOS.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Oh, at the moment, she's just up to desperately clinging to power.
> 
> Their new message - to warn against the 'coalition of chaos' - may work, I suppose, but problem there is that, if you unpick it, there was a fair bit of agreement among Labour, the SNP, Plaid and the Greens, and even the libdem. Doesn't matter, though. It's a warning to tories not to sit on their hands. It's actually saying 'maybe we're shit, but you don't want Corbyn do you, so you'd better turn out'.




Yep.  That came across quite a few times.  Cuts versus chaos.  I know it's been said a few times,  but the Tories have offered nothing positive.  No hope.  you need us  never mind a vision.  They have painted themselves into a corner.  But a lot of nose holding,   I still say they will win. 

 Admittedly I am in a bit of a bubble.  Some people still like May.


----------



## butchersapron (May 31, 2017)




----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Fucking hell. Amber Rudd' s dad died on Monday and May still sent her into work.




Wow.  Not a good look at all.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Fucking hell. Amber Rudd' s dad died on Monday and May still sent her into work.



What evidence May 'sent her into work'?


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Fucking hell. Amber Rudd' s dad died on Monday and May still sent her into work.


That's what the Undead do. And she is the son of a vicar. Jesus has truly wept.


----------



## brogdale (May 31, 2017)

Buckaroo said:


> What evidence May 'sent her into work'?


She was on the telly.


----------



## bemused (May 31, 2017)

I love the fact Ed Davey is the campaign spokesman. With his strong record in convincing the good people Kingston & Surbiton that he was such a good MP that he saw a 15% swing to the Tories in 2015 will serve him well in that job.


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

Buckaroo said:


> What evidence May 'sent her into work'?


Well, I guess she could have said 'Hey Amber, so sorry to hear your news - no need to do that shitshow on wednesday night, I'll do it instead', and Amber said 'No Teresa, I must soldier on. You must get on with the important work of planning Brexit.'

But I'm guessing it wouldn't have been quite like that.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

brogdale said:


> She was on the telly.



What evidence May said "I don't care your dad's dead you're going on the telly"?


----------



## bi0boy (May 31, 2017)

brogdale said:


> She was on the telly.



I'm sure she has a mind of her own. Some people prefer to work when they are bereaved.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Well, I guess she could have said 'Hey Amber, so sorry to hear your news - no need to do that shitshow on wednesday night, I'll do it instead', and Amber said 'No Teresa, I must soldier on. You must get on with the important work of planning Brexit.'
> 
> But I'm guessing it wouldn't have been quite like that.


Could very easily have been something like that. Rudd'll be angling for May's job very soon quite possibly.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

The tories aren't monitoring the comments on May's instagramm account - a real spunkfest of hate !




alumlslesLIAR LIAR
calumlsles
calumlsles#VOTELABOUR
calumlsles@rebeccaackroyd because jeremy corbyn would rip her to shreds
regardepappaLIAR LIAR UR GONNA BE ON FIRE WHEN LABOUR WINS CUM FACE
regardepappaYOU ARE A RACIST OLD SCUM WHO DOESNT DESERVE ANY RESPECT YOU ARE THE DEFINITION OF TERRORIST WHO NEEDS TO BE PUT DOWN AND EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT YOUR DIRTY LITTLE WORK FUCKING DOUCHEBAG
calumlsles@regardepappa PREACH
calumlslesShe's a liar liar
Ohhh
she's a liar liar
No you can't trust her
No no no noo
She's a liar liar
Ohhh
she's a liar liar
No you can't trust her
No no no noo
I want to have a government that
Doesn't think that fascism is where it's at
Whilst putting the mother of all bombs
Into tiny hands will go very wrong
I'm hoping for a future for my child
Where she can grow and feel inspired
Do everything in your power you can
People rising up is the only plan
regardepappaPLEASE TELL ME ONE GOOD THING SHES DONE ABOUT BRITAIN? CUTS ALL CUTS!!! SHES THE WORST LEADER EVER @navigate_advisers
regardepappaABSOLUTLEY TRUE SHES AFTER EVERYTHING AND NOT JUST MANCHESTER BOMBING.. EVERY EXPLOSION THAT HAS HAPPENED SO FAR IN ENGLAND IS CAUSED BY HER.. @farah.ali3


----------



## brogdale (May 31, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I'm sure she has a mind of her own. Some people prefer to work when they are bereaved.


Maybe.
More likely the psychopathic pursuit of power; she knows May is a dead woman walking.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Well, I guess she could have said 'Hey Amber, so sorry to hear your news - no need to do that shitshow on wednesday night, I'll do it instead', and Amber said 'No Teresa, I must soldier on. You must get on with the important work of planning Brexit.'
> 
> But I'm guessing it wouldn't have been quite like that.



I'd have guessed that too but I wouldn't presume it no matter the contempt I have for them, I wouldn't take it that May made Rudd go on telly regardless etc


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

5 pages of commentary on a tv entertainment show masquerading as politics. I think we were better off when it was just in the newspapers.


----------



## brogdale (May 31, 2017)

Buckaroo said:


> What evidence May said "I don't care your dad's dead you're going on the telly"?


I overheard her say those exact words.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> 5 pages of commentary on a tv entertainment show masquerading as politics. I think we were better off when it was just in the newspapers.


Why was it that? fwiw I've been paying zero attention to this election up to tonight aside from being a trainspotter about the polls, so this was the first time I've heard any of them speak. It contained a fair bit of content, I thought.


----------



## Buckaroo (May 31, 2017)

brogdale said:


> I overheard her say those exact words.



Fair enough then.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> 5 pages of commentary on a tv entertainment show masquerading as politics. I think we were better off when it was just in the newspapers.



Fair point  - these should probably done as seperate threads - and as a bit of participatory / spectator fun similar to the live feeds on the newspaper sites.


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

Edie said:


> Yeah but he grew up with a single Mum. He wasn't talking Preston down, he's a very proud northerner, he was talking from experience of having been brought up with fuck all money in the 80s. Of the three leaders, he's the only working class one.


he was a thatcher-idolising tory as a teenager - doesn't strike me that he can have been particularly aware of the destruction she was wreaking on the town he lived in in that case...


----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> 5 pages of commentary on a tv entertainment show masquerading as politics. I think we were better off when it was just in the newspapers.



In the golden age when the papers reported what people said?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Why was it that? fwiw I've been paying zero attention to this election up to tonight aside from being a trainspotter about the polls, so this was the first time I've heard any of them speak. It contained a fair bit of content, I thought.


I dunno. I haven't watched tv news or politics shows for a long time. I prefer reading about what's going on than having to watch it through the filter of an entertainment show on telly. 
I couldn't watch it without getting angry and annoyed, and therefore stop taking what is being said. Much better to read and take in at leisure.


----------



## treelover (May 31, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Could very easily have been something like that. Rudd'll be angling for May's job very soon quite possibly.



Yes, its my manifesto" said Rudd in the debate


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I dunno. I haven't watched tv news or politics shows for a long time. I prefer reading about what's going on than having to watch it through the filter of an entertainment show on telly.
> I couldn't watch it without getting angry and annoyed, and therefore stop taking what is being said. Much better to read and take in at leisure.


Fair enough. I also normally avoid such things for the same reason. Tonight I was curious to see Corbyn perform having realised I hadn't actually heard him speak about anything for about a year. He's not an impressive orator, not that that necessarily matters.


----------



## bemused (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> he was a thatcher-idolising tory as a teenager - doesn't strike me that he can have been particularly aware of the destruction she was wreaking on the town he lived in in that case...



Then he found Jesus and learned to dislike the gays.


----------



## J Ed (May 31, 2017)

The audience was handpicked to be representative in some way, wasn't it? They all seemed like they were for Corbyn...


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

Cid said:


> In the golden age when the papers reported what people said?


fair point. i just think way too much attention is being paid to showmanship and being able to recall figures under pressure. it's too much dragon's den/the apprentice and interviewers taking pleasure in catching people out.


----------



## JimW (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I dunno. I haven't watched tv news or politics shows for a long time. I prefer reading about what's going on than having to watch it through the filter of an entertainment show on telly.
> I couldn't watch it without getting angry and annoyed, and therefore stop taking what is being said. Much better to read and take in at leisure.


The filter in paper journalism is going to be much less apparent though, and there have always been hustings debates.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

bemused said:


> Then he found Jesus and learned to dislike the gays.


 oi - everybody knows Jesus was gay - as were most of his disciples and most of the male priests who came after.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Fair enough. I also normally avoid such things for the same reason. Tonight I was curious to see Corbyn perform having realised I hadn't actually heard him speak about anything for about a year. He's not an impressive orator, not that that necessarily matters.


it does matter, but it shouldn't. i'm quite happy not knowing how people sound or look. i want to judge them on their politics not their style


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> 5 pages of commentary on a tv entertainment show masquerading as politics. I think we were better off when it was just in the newspapers.



 Sod off.  I might as well try and enjoy some of this.


----------



## treelover (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> he was a thatcher-idolising tory as a teenager - doesn't strike me that he can have been particularly aware of the destruction she was wreaking on the town he lived in in that case...



Didn't know that, funny how people rethink things retrospectively, no way he could have been concerned about poverty then, etc, more like getting off with freshers when his band played.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

JimW said:


> The filter in paper journalism is going to be much less apparent though, and there have always been hustings debates.


well, cos it's also been on the telly, i can also trust that the papers are accurately reporting what was said.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

xenon said:


> Sod off.  I might as well try and enjoy some of this.


fair enough, hat tip to you for being able to enjoy this shit


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

xenon said:


> Sod off.  I might as well try and enjoy some of this.



Urban strengths are on local issues , making friends , finding a plumber and fun - changing the world post by post - nah.


----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> it does matter, but it shouldn't. i'm quite happy not knowing how people sound or look. i want to judge them on their politics not their style



Yeah, that side does disturb me. But it's a much wider culture of public-figureyness than just the TV debates.


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

J Ed said:


> The audience was handpicked to be representative in some way, wasn't it? They all seemed like they were for Corbyn...


they clapped for Corbyn, for various anti-cuts bits and for a few anti-immigration bits. noticably sitting on their hands when Rudd spoke.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Well, I guess she could have said 'Hey Amber, so sorry to hear your news - no need to do that shitshow on wednesday night, I'll do it instead', and Amber said 'No Teresa, I must soldier on. You must get on with the important work of planning Brexit.'


If May wasn't going to turn up the Tories should have just stayed away altogether, then they could just have dismissed it as the losers show. But now she just looks like she's a coward.


----------



## JimW (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> they clapped for Corbyn, for various anti-cuts bits and for a few anti-immigration bits. noticably sitting on their hands when Rudd spoke.


And I think she was the only one they laughed at, not a good look.


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)




----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

There was a loud kipper or two.


----------



## bemused (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> they clapped for Corbyn, for various anti-cuts bits and for a few anti-immigration bits. noticably sitting on their hands when Rudd spoke.



I wouldn't confuse the cheering section with the wider audience. I do think the Tories would have learned from these TV debates and we'll be hearing much more cheering going forward. Making TV debates, even, more shit than they are now.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

All this politics isn't doing much for me trying to cut down on mid week drinking.


----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

I expect there was some genteel clapping, of the type heard when presenting the cruellest shit-end trophy at the annual hunt ball.

But without the view-halloas.


----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

Also why the fuck is view-halloo spelled 'view-halloa'?

Oh... it's not always. Look, don't mind me, I'm distracted and rambling.


----------



## rutabowa (May 31, 2017)

phillm said:


>



Noooo no no no no no no. Please god no. Don't let that be what it looks like.


----------



## bemused (May 31, 2017)

I can see the coalition of chaos line coming back and Labour being tarred with the Greens, SNP and LibDem brexit stuff. They'll wheel out the recent hung parliament poll as a side dish.


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

rutabowa said:


> Noooo no no no no no no. Please god no. Don't let that be what it looks like.


fraid so.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I dunno. I haven't watched tv news or politics shows for a long time. I prefer reading about what's going on than having to watch it through the filter of an entertainment show on telly.
> I couldn't watch it without getting angry and annoyed, and therefore stop taking what is being said. Much better to read and take in at leisure.



Good to see how they react under pressure and don't have time to invent bullshit.  I know it must be horribly pressurised, but, hey, if you want to be PM, that's life.  And it gives the likes of Lucas to really shine, as she deserves.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

Far as the audience goes.  Corbin does attract the whoopers.  Your average Tory isn't going to get excitable over the Tory  delivery. It doesn't mean that much.  In fact I find all the whooping quite annoying myself.  I am not an arch Corbin fan. But will be voting labour anyway.  Let's not ignore the mirror version of that.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

I told you c-byn had swag but would anyone listen?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> 5 pages of commentary on a tv entertainment show masquerading as politics. I think we were better off when it was just in the newspapers.


I didn't catch the TV debate tonight but I do like them. They are reliably awful and make people I dislike look bad. Is this the feeling eurovision song contest fans get? A sort of grubby  pleasure at how shit it all is? perhaps it is.
Also mays no-show looks bad, hameron would have turned up


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

xenon said:


> Far as the audience goes.  Corbin does attract the whoopers.  Your average Tory isn't going to get excitable over the Tory  delivery. It doesn't mean that much.  In fact I find all the whooping quite annoying myself.  I am not an arch Corbin fan. But will be voting labour anyway.  Let's not ignore the mirror version of that.


And I'm not at all sure the tories will have been so unhappy about how the debate went, tbh. Rudd's job was to warn against Corbyn, hence getting her mention of Diane Abbott in - to remind people of her as well, and really not much else.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I didn't catch the TV debate tonight but I do like them. They are reliably awful and make people I dislike look bad. Is this the feeling eurovision song contest fans get? A sort of grubby  pleasure at how shit it all is? perhaps it is.
> Also mays no-show looks bad, hameron would have turned up



Y'know, you can also sometimes be surprised by how good a candidate is 'live', in the same way you might be surprised by a live band.  Try to look for the positive.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I didn't catch the TV debate tonight but I do like them. They are reliably awful and make people I dislike look bad. Is this the feeling eurovision song contest fans get? A sort of grubby  pleasure at how shit it all is? perhaps it is.
> Also mays no-show looks bad, hameron would have turned up


i dunno, i can't even stand clips of them talking at their lecterns, earnestly beseeching 'the people'.


----------



## Cid (May 31, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Good to see how they react under pressure and don't have time to invent bullshit.  I know it must be horribly pressurised, but, hey, if you want to be PM, that's life.  And it gives the likes of Lucas to really shine, as she deserves.



But being able to debate well, or deliver a good speech isn't really the same as performing well when the world outside the bubble decides to really fuck you sideways.


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

treelover said:


> Didn't know that, funny how people rethink things retrospectively.


more like 'funny how people make up any old shit retrospectively 'cause it sounds heartfelt in a TV debate'


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Try to look for the positive.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Y'know, you can also sometimes be surprised by how good a candidate is 'live', in the same way you might be surprised by a live band.  Try to look for the positive.


you're looking at it like it's entertainment when it's about what their politics are.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


>



oi. Put a spoiler on that or something.


----------



## Edie (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> he was a thatcher-idolising tory as a teenager - doesn't strike me that he can have been particularly aware of the destruction she was wreaking on the town he lived in in that case...


He also had a poster of Lenin and Gary Lineker. So make of that what you will. He's not a Tory and never has been though.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


>




 That  has always   Been such a LibDem tune.


----------



## binka (May 31, 2017)

Edie said:


> He's not a Tory and never has been though.


Just happy to support a tory government and vote for tory policies


----------



## Edie (May 31, 2017)

binka said:


> Just happy to support a tory government and vote for tory policies


Who, Farron?


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

Edie said:


> He also had a poster of Lenin and Gary Lineker. So make of that what you will. He's not a Tory and never has been though.


He was known as 'tory tim' at 6th form.


----------



## binka (May 31, 2017)

Edie said:


> Who, Farron?


Was he not a lib dem mp and president of the party when they allowed the tories to run the country?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> He was known as 'tory tim' at 6th form.


I bet he was so desperate to be liked. 'Guys, guys....'


----------



## J Ed (May 31, 2017)

BBC News at 10 was actually reasonable and balanced, I haven't watched it in ages. What's going on?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Well, I guess she could have said 'Hey Amber, so sorry to hear your news - no need to do that shitshow on wednesday night, I'll do it instead', and Amber said 'No Teresa, I must soldier on. You must get on with the important work of planning Brexit.'
> 
> But I'm guessing it wouldn't have been quite like that.


A well known Irish columnist (was in the Examiner, now Irish Independent, also regular TV slots) tweeted that it was "cold" of May not to do the debate.

Frances Barber (actor, very odd politics) saw it and decided it was Anglophobia:


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I bet he was so desperate to be liked. 'Guys, guys....'


the only kid in the year who wore the optional blazer.


----------



## J Ed (May 31, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> A well known Irish columnist (was in the Examiner, now Irish Independent, also regular TV slots) tweeted that it was "cold" of May not to do the debate.
> 
> Frances Barber (actor, very odd politics) saw it and decided it was Anglophobia:
> 
> View attachment 108104



Frances Barber doesn't really have odd politics so much as she is terminally wrong about everything.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> you're looking at it like it's entertainment when it's about what their politics are.



Nah, they'll need to perform 'live' when amongst other leaders, not wobble under pressure.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2017)

binka said:


> Just happy to support a tory government and vote for tory policies


To be fair to him, he was something of a dissenting voice during the coalition. Voted against tuition fee rise, for instance. As lds go, there are a lot worse.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 31, 2017)

Mealy mouthed rubbish, he didn't vote against the coalition did he.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Nah, they'll need to perform 'live' when amongst other leaders, not wobble under pressure.


doing it on telly behind podiums and no papers is just bullshit though. it's only for viewing figures, not for edification


----------



## danny la rouge (May 31, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Frances Barber doesn't really have odd politics so much as she is terminally wrong about everything.


I didn't want to be too rude. But fuck it, yes, she's a car crash.

I never deliberately look at her Twitter, but sometimes she pops up in my feed and I'm so embarrassed for her I want to plead with her to stop typing. But then I also, in a way, want her to say more.


----------



## bemused (May 31, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> doing it on telly behind podiums and no papers is just bullshit though. it's only for viewing figures, not for edification



The Andrew Neil interviews were much better than any of the debates.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

it is entertainment. We get the circuses but they are tight with the bread...

thats why I can watch these things. I know the politics and policies here already, I know the soundbites and party lines waiting to be deployed. With the paxman one it was paxman himself who made me turn it off- not the pair of politicos or audience


Orang Utan said:


> you're looking at it like it's entertainment when it's about what their politics are.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

bemused said:


> The Andrew Neil interviews were much better than any of the debates.


andrew niell is a foetid cunt who should get in the sea. Can't stand the man. he's got the air of a groper imo


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> it is entertainment. We get the circuses but they are tight with the bread...
> 
> thats why I can watch these things. I know the politics and policies here already, I know the soundbites and party lines waiting to be deployed.


ok, but that's precisely why I can't watch it


----------



## binka (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> andrew niell is a foetid cunt who should get in the sea. Can't stand the man. he's got the air of a groper imo


Succinct and to the point. You do have a way with words


----------



## redsquirrel (May 31, 2017)

Anyone seen this? 


> In the wood panelled spin room of the Cambridge Union, the first drama of the night came when Labour’s Emily Thornberry burst into an interview with Tory cabinet minister Damian Green, live on BBC News.
> 
> ...
> 
> But Labour sources said Thornberry had been scheduled to be on Channel 4 News with Green, until Conservatives had told Labour they did not want a two-way debate. Stood down, Thornberry decided to take matters into her own hands and join Green’s post-debate interview live on air.


I mean the actual live news.


----------



## bemused (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> [...] he's got the hair of a groper imo



FTFY


----------



## gosub (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> it is entertainment. We get the circuses but they are tight with the bread...
> 
> thats why I can watch these things. I know the politics and policies here already, I know the soundbites and party lines waiting to be deployed. With the paxman one it was paxman himself who made me turn it off- not the pair of politicos or audience


Needs more lions


----------



## bemused (May 31, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Anyone seen this?
> 
> I mean the actual live news.



I did, it wasn't as dramatic as the article makes out. They just did the talk over each other dance.


----------



## magneze (May 31, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Anyone seen this?
> 
> I mean the actual live news.


I saw it happen, but they made it sound quite dramatic. It wasn't dramatic at all and looked like it was meant to happen. *shrugs*


----------



## magneze (May 31, 2017)

SNAP! bemused


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 31, 2017)

Think Adam Boulton may have been daydreaming


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

lets just hurriedly draw the tatty curtains over that grubby window into boultons bank


----------



## agricola (May 31, 2017)

magneze said:


> I saw it happen, but they made it sound quite dramatic. It wasn't dramatic at all and looked like it was meant to happen. *shrugs*



A shame.  I thought the best bit of the US Presidential election was when Trump invaded a Ted Cruz rally, and interrupted a Glenn Beck speech.


----------



## tim (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> andrew niell is a foetid cunt who should get in the sea. Can't stand the man. he's got the air of a groper imo



True, but that doesn't mean that he isn't better than they deserve.


----------



## tim (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> He was known as 'tory tim' at 6th form.



We all were. Our peers couldn't resist the alliteration. Tim Brooke Taylor was also greatly to blame.


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

tim said:


> We all were. Our peers couldn't resist the alliteration. Tim Brooke Taylor was also greatly to blame.


yeah, but did you wear a blazer voluntarily and have a picture of Maggie above your bed?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

which poster was he looking at when committing the sin of onan? thats the real question


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2017)

Lenin for the distance, thatch to get him over the line.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> which poster was he looking at when committing the sin of onan? thats the real question


Pa


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

we had a tim at our school who we hated too, but only cos his dad was head of 6th. poor tim. his dad was a socialist who was mad hard at judo and looked like yasser arafat, so we should have liked him really. but he was called tim. it's one of those names that's hard to shake of assumptions, like giles or sebastien


----------



## tim (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> yeah, but did you wear a blazer voluntarily and have a picture of Maggie above your bed?



No.blazer and rather sadly  the poster below on the wall


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

which one of those did you wack off to? cop/woman/voyeur?


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 31, 2017)

Tube map.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 31, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> Tube map.


OH YES


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 31, 2017)

Look at all those angles, going off in all directions. And you don't care who sees, do you? No. No, you don't.

Filth.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

The copper's taken one glove off - what's he doing with his other hand?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 31, 2017)

killer b said:


> Fucking hell. Amber Rudd' s dad died on Monday and May still sent her into work.


 
TBF, her dad was a political embarrassment to her (rapacious capitalist who was shit at keeping businesses afloat, and who was a byword at one time for dodgy "City" behaviour).  Her advisers at least, will be glad that Big Tony has shuffled off this mortal coil.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 31, 2017)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Y'know, you can also sometimes be surprised by how good a candidate is 'live', in the same way you might be surprised by a live band.  Try to look for the positive.



You fucking hippy cunt!


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 31, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> The copper's taken one glove off - what's he doing with his other hand?


Tampering with evidence/something truncheon-related/polishing his whistle

ETC ETC ETC


----------



## tim (May 31, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> Look at all those angles, going off in all directions. And you don't care who sees, do you? No. No, you don't.
> 
> Filth.



I'm Harry Beck and in a minute I'm going to come along with my twelve inch ruler and put them all straight.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

Why aren't the police wearing white gloves these days? Is it something that a blindeye is turned toward, you know, like no ties in the Summer months?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 31, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Tampering with evidence/something truncheon-related/polishing his whistle
> 
> ETC ETC ETC


taking down particulars, handling swollen goods

how could you miss such classics?


----------



## phillm (May 31, 2017)

Corbyn - Dare to Dream....


----------



## Nine Bob Note (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> taking down particulars, handling swollen goods
> 
> how could you miss such classics?



Hooooowwwwwwww very dare you! Come along, Leonard...


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> taking down particulars, handling swollen goods
> 
> how could you miss such classics?


I like to leave scraps out


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 1, 2017)

Looking at this morning's papers, I think the Tories are going to scrag May the moment the polls close (if they can find her)

So it's actually a choice between Corbyn and Boris (or some sort of hard-right headcase)


----------



## Poi E (Jun 1, 2017)

editor said:


> Never seen that SNP bloke before.



He's leader of the opposition in the House.

Pity his seat is looking vulnerable to a Tory. He made a great speech in the House on the moral and economic obscenity that is Trident, amongst many others.


----------



## teqniq (Jun 1, 2017)

Interesting. I had a feeling this would play much more badly than the vermin calculated, nation of animal lovers and all that.

Theresa May's pro fox hunting stance may be behind collapse in Tory lead, new poll shows


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

I love how he holds the pringle aloft before eating it like a pint before downing it or something


----------



## JTG (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I love how he holds the pringle aloft before eating it like a pint before downing it or something


----------



## JTG (Jun 1, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Interesting. I had a feeling this would play much more badly than the vermin calculated, nation of animal lovers and all that.
> 
> Theresa May's pro fox hunting stance may be behind collapse in Tory lead, new poll shows


They can't help themselves over this stuff, it comes out anyway


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2017)

This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me


J Ed said:


> I love how he holds the pringle aloft before eating it like a pint before downing it or something


----------



## teqniq (Jun 1, 2017)

JTG said:


> They can't help themselves over this stuff, it comes out anyway


Yeah but to make part of their election platform was the hight of folly/arrogance imo.


----------



## JTG (Jun 1, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Yeah but to make part of their election platform was the hight of folly/arrogance imo.


Kind of what I meant - even if they thought it wouldn't be helpful, out it would come all the same


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

On the subject of the Yougov polling and stuff, if the Tories and their agents don't believe the polls why do they keep re-launching their campaign?


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, her dad was a political embarrassment to her (rapacious capitalist who was shit at keeping businesses afloat, and who was a byword at one time for dodgy "City" behaviour).  Her advisers at least, will be glad that Big Tony has shuffled off this mortal coil.



Banned from the city for being even too crooked for them to bear I believe.  That takes some doing.  Something about apples falling close to trees.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 1, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Yeah but to make part of their election platform was the hight of folly/arrogance imo.


Indeed, along with dementia tax, removing free school meals and all the other pieces of "fuck you, we're going to win and there's nothing you can do about it" to the country


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Indeed, along with dementia tax, removing free school meals and all the other pieces of "fuck you, we're going to win and there's nothing you can do about it" to the country



Kabbes do you think there has been an overall change in how people are thinking about Labour?


----------



## Voley (Jun 1, 2017)

Plymouth Herald not impressed by May's interview with them.

''Three minutes of nothing''


----------



## teqniq (Jun 1, 2017)

Plymouth Herald said:
			
		

> ...She had and given me absolutely nothing. It was like a postmodern version of Radio 4's Just A Minute....


----------



## Cid (Jun 1, 2017)

Voley said:


> Plymouth Herald not impressed by May's interview with them.
> 
> ''Three minutes of nothing''



That's... weird. Maybot.


----------



## newbie (Jun 1, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me


innit


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

Cid said:


> That's... weird. Maybot.


Do you want a cup of tea Theresa?
- Well, I've been very clear that.....
Yeah, but do you want a cup of tea?
- The important thing to say is that people will be faced with a clear choice...
So, you _don't_ want to a cup of tea?
- The real question here is whether Jeremy Corbyn's IRA membership...
Oh fuck it, I'm turning the kettle off


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

Thinking aloud here but I wonder if the tories decision to make it all about Brexit has backfired a bit as well.  Its become clear that the lib dems are bombing and Farron's strategy on focusing on the 48% has been a disaster. UKIP have fallen off the map and May is still gravely banging on about the negotiations like its going to be trench warfare.

It seems to me that most people have moved on now.  A few headbangers on both sides are still mad furious about it but everyone else is just getting on with their lives and trying to make the best of the situation.  Corbyn has done well by focusing on these issues whilst May and her lot just look miserable and tired and offering nothing but grim foreboding.  

Dunno, it just seems to be they have misread the mood of the country a bit.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Thinking aloud here but I wonder if the tories decision to make it all about Brexit has backfired a bit as well.  Its become clear that the lib dems are bombing and Farron's strategy on focusing on the 48% has been a disaster. UKIP have fallen off the map and May is still gravely banging on about the negotiations like its going to be trench warfare.
> 
> It seems to me that most people have moved on now.  A few headbangers on both sides are still mad furious about it but everyone else is just getting on with their lives and trying to make the best of the situation.  Corbyn has done well by focusing on these issues whilst May and her lot just look miserable and tired and offering nothing but grim foreboding.
> 
> Dunno, it just seems to be they have misread the mood of the country a bit.


I agree with all that, though I suspect there's a residual importance for brexit and the coming negotiations. They will be playing it for all its worth this week, with variants on 'would you send corbyn to negotiate our future' and 'how could a rag tag coalition lead by corbyn ever negotiate our future'.  But yes, certainly, if Lab and Con had started this campaign on an equal footing, Labour would be 5 points ahead now.


----------



## Nylock (Jun 1, 2017)

tbf if you go by the progress made from position they were in at their recent nadir, from an equal start they'd be 15 points ahead


----------



## kabbes (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Kabbes do you think there has been an overall change in how people are thinking about Labour?


I have come to realise I have just as little idea on this as anybody else.  In fact less so, because the City and leafy Surrey Hills are, much to my surprise, not particularly representative of the wider country.

Within my bubble though, definitely.  Not so much that there will be a shock Labour win in true blue constituencies.  But Corbyn was perceived as a total joke, whereas now he seems to have a grudging respect. The manifesto was a huge win.  Nationalisation of the rail service is really popular even amongst the middle-aged Tory lifers.  Anybody who has to sit in a Southern or SouthWestern train every day welcomes it.  There is also a general view that utilities are natural state ventures, and this is largely as a result of seeing that our private providers are, basically, German and French state institutions.  If they can do it, why can't we?  

I also haven't heard any grumbles about corporation tax.  The people I deal with professionally, who are the ones I talk to about such things, are used to dealing with tax rates across the world and they know that 26% is still pretty cheap, actually.  I think there is a general shrug at that.  You only get taxed on profits anyway, so it doesn't put up your gross expenses or anything.  Nobody has sad anything about higher personal taxes at the  top end, but they wouldn't because, you know, British.  We don't talk about our income.

So the manifesto came across as thoughtful, reasonable and with a distinct vision.  They might not vote for it (generally, they won't), but they weren't going to anyway, and at least they have respect for it.  

Respect, I should add, that they did not have for Miliband's effort.  He and his party remained a joke to the bitter end.

Now, how any of that translates into how Labour is viewed in the rest of the country -- well, that's what I come on Urban to find out.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 1, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Thinking aloud here but I wonder if the tories decision to make it all about Brexit has backfired a bit as well.  Its become clear that the lib dems are bombing and Farron's strategy on focusing on the 48% has been a disaster. UKIP have fallen off the map and May is still gravely banging on about the negotiations like its going to be trench warfare.
> 
> It seems to me that most people have moved on now.  A few headbangers on both sides are still mad furious about it but everyone else is just getting on with their lives and trying to make the best of the situation.  Corbyn has done well by focusing on these issues whilst May and her lot just look miserable and tired and offering nothing but grim foreboding.
> 
> Dunno, it just seems to be they have misread the mood of the country a bit.


Yeah, I was thinking that the other day.  At the end of the day, nobody really cared about the EU before 2016 and, deep down, few really care now.  When it was all anybody was talking about, it loomed large.  But in a general election campaign, suddenly we all remember that things like income inequality, the NHS and education are actually what really matters.


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2017)

kabbes said:


> I have come to realise I have just as little idea on this as anybody else.  In fact less so, because the City and leafy Surrey Hills are, much to my surprise, not particularly representative of the wider country.
> 
> Within my bubble though, definitely.  Not so much that there will be a shock Labour win in true blue constituencies.  But Corbyn was perceived as a total joke, whereas now he seems to have a grudging respect. The manifesto was a huge win.  Nationalisation of the rail service is really popular even amongst the middle-aged Tory lifers.  Anybody who has to sit in a Southern or SouthWestern train every day welcomes it.  There is also a general view that utilities are natural state ventures, and this is largely as a result of seeing that our private providers are, basically, German and French state institutions.  If they can do it, why can't we?
> 
> ...



I'm hearing bits of that too.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 1, 2017)

On the basis that WHAT I SEE AND ONLY WHAT I SEE IS THE COMPLETE TRUTH OF ANY MATTER, I can tell that on the important signs-in-windows-and-gardens-that-I-see-on-my-walk measure, Cardiff Central will go to Labour over the Lib Dems by three votes to one! On the campaigning-teams-I-see-out-and-about it'll be a tie between Labour and Plaid. . . 

Who knows. 

It's a Labour/Lib Dem marginal. The impression I have is very limited and very personal. I think Jo Stevens is a good MP - she's replied properly to several clicktavist emails I've sent her. She left the Corbyn front bench over the Brexit vote, which is fine by me, and the constituency was pro-Remain, but, who knows. The Labour team who called on me seemed very positive and energetic and young. No other party has knocked on my door - though I do have a Labour poster up (for the first time in my life!) so that might be putting them off. The Lib-Dem leaflet was all about Jeremy's LENINIST HAT as far as I can see. Absolutely nothing from UKIP. I think it's close here, so I wonder if tactical voting from Greens and Plaid might play a part? 

Anyway. I didn't expect things to be anything like this good.


----------



## Nylock (Jun 1, 2017)

Even though the chances are for a tory win (narrow at least and don't want to jinx anything by mentioning the preferred alternative) the highlight of GE17 for me has been watching the metamorphosis of the tory campaign going from well-oiled strong and stable machine to weak and wobbly clown car


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 1, 2017)

'Three minutes of nothing': Reporter reflects on PM encounter

filler, bollocks and shite, toss, nothingness and cock

I don't usually post links with a video watch requirement- as I have no attention span -   but this is an utterly fucking wretched  - how did this empty shell of a human being  get to run the country ?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 1, 2017)

Last night, for the first time, I actually started to think that Jezza can detrhone her. 
She got caught out on the debate thing - so all the narrative was "she ducked the debate - too chickened out" "The lady is for turning - but she's not for turning up" was a bit of a zinger of soundbite/tweet. 
Slightly unfair - as neither she not corbyn were supposed to be doing it - but some nifty political gamesmanship from labour there.
What made it worse was her response - she did not have a  well rehearsed answer and she looked stressed and nervous when questioned by reporters - crap response, nervous laugh, gabbling her words, eyes looking for the nearest escape route. Cameron or Blair would have calmly batted it away and moved on. With Terresa - you sense that the press pack smell blood - she looks tired and very ill at ease. 
She has made the election all about her - but she is losing the tories support everytime she appears on the TV. With Corbyn its the other way around.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 1, 2017)

Nylock said:


> Even though the chances are for a tory win (narrow at least and don't want to jinx anything by mentioning the preferred alternative) the highlight of GE17 for me has been watching the metamorphosis of the tory campaign going from well-oiled strong and stable machine to weak and wobbly clown car



It's been entertaining hasn't it. And even with a Tory win I think it's obvious that Theresa May is fucked, she's been exposed so badly.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> I'm hearing bits of that too.



Yeah me too.  I had a surprising chat with my tribalist tory parents the other night.  Grudging respect for what Labour under Corbyn are proposing and exasperation at the hopeless campaign by the Maybot.  Not that it matters much as only death will stop them voting tory but there you go.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 1, 2017)

She's very clear, isn't she? 

Clearly.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 1, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Yeah me too.  I had a surprising chat with my tribalist tory parents the other night.  Grudging respect for what Labour under Corbyn are proposing and exasperation at the hopeless campaign by the Maybot.  Not that it matters much as only death will stop them voting tory but there you go.



DON'T KILL YOUR PARENTS! IT'S NOT RIGHT!


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 1, 2017)

Yeah it should have been so easy for her as Sturgeon wasn't there either. "It's not about me it's about Conservative policies, I am able to send my Home Secretary but I'm pretty sure Jeremy Corbyn wouldn't have dared to send Diane Abbott."


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> DON'T KILL YOUR PARENTS! IT'S NOT RIGHT!



There will be no room for your pathetic misplaced compassion under Comrade Corbyn's revolution.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

I think this election has been defined and shaped by some unusual factors:

1. It began as a non-election really, an opportunistic vote of confidence for May that had the happy side effect of destroying Labour.  And for a good 3 weeks or so (?) it was exactly that.
2. Labour being so far behind and massively dis-functional, again, something that seemed to still be the case for the first phase of the election.
3. Shit journalism, which has benefitted Labour. Yes, certainly, there's been anti-Labour bias from the beeb and most of the newspapers.  But linked to 2. there's hasn't been a great deal of scrutiny of Labour's manifesto and costings.  Instead the media have focused on whether Corbyn, Abbot et al could _remember_ their costings. Woman's Hour and the like were damaging, but probably better than long running scrutiny of 'black holes in Labour's finances' type stuff.
4. It would be mad to predict anything at the moment but we should remember Labour went into the 2015 election final week on level pegging with the Tories - and lost by 8%. Even with adjustments to the methodology Labour are now round about 8% behind on an average of the polls.  My hunch is that a fair bit of Labour's current polling strength is soft and that the last week will focus on leadership, economic competence and brexit negotiations.  My latest random thought is that we will end up with something like a 10-11% tory lead.

((((Bucket of cold water)))) - I'm just off to disappoint some kittens.


----------



## bemused (Jun 1, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Thinking aloud here but I wonder if the tories decision to make it all about Brexit has backfired a bit as well.



I think their problem is they stopped talking about it. There is always that moment in a Tory camapign when you know the wheels are about to come off - when they start talking about fox hunting.

The curse of the bushy red tail struck May hard. When fox hunting is brought up you know this is the time they feel they have enough of a lead to start wheeling out their pet projects.

For the next week they'll just be banging on about brexit, pointing to who Labour's caolition partners would be and glue to all togather with any polls showing a hung parliment.


----------



## The Pale King (Jun 1, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Banned from the city for being even too crooked for them to bear I believe.  That takes some doing.  Something about apples falling close to trees.



There was an article in Private Eye a few weeks ago raising some questions about Amber Rudd's involvement as  company director with several of her crooked father's firms. It seems she hasn't really done anything else for work than that before politics.


----------



## The Pale King (Jun 1, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Yeah me too.  I had a surprising chat with my tribalist tory parents the other night.  Grudging respect for what Labour under Corbyn are proposing and exasperation at the hopeless campaign by the Maybot.  Not that it matters much as only death will stop them voting tory but there you go.



Had a chat with a similarly-minded Auntie the other night. She is culturally, pre-ideologically disposed to vote Tory and never Labour, but the dementia tax and fox-hunting has her spooked and she is contemplating either sitting this one out or voting Lib Dem. I hope there are more like her...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I think this election has been defined and shaped by some unusual factors:
> 
> 1. It began as a non-election really, an opportunistic vote of confidence for May that had the happy side effect of destroying Labour.  And for a good 3 weeks or so (?) it was exactly that.
> 2. Labour being so far behind and massively dis-functional, again, something that seemed to still be the case for the first phase of the election.
> ...



yeah - 2015 was a searing experience. But the difference this time is the genuine enthusiasm for corbyn - and the car crash of the tory campaign. It _feels_ different. My money is still on a tory majority of 40ish - but corbyn ending up in number 10 is no longer la la land. Poll are widely divergent - some consistatnly giving the tories a leads as low as 3 points - other consistently have them 12 pts ahead.
Turn out of young people and previous non-voters will be key - as will the willingness of the tory base + brexity types to vote for a distinctly uninspiring candidate. It has strong echoes of Trump and Clinton - but in a good way.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

bemused said:


> For the next week they'll just be banging on about brexit, pointing to who Labour's caolition partners would be and glue to all togather with any polls showing a hung parliment.


 They'd be right to raise that to be honest. Much as I want there to be grand anti-Tory coalition it's very difficult to see how there could be an agreed Labour-SNP line on brexit, particularly with the indyref2 complications.  Needless to say, I don't give a shit about the parliamentary brexit dance that would take place within a grand coalition, but it looks like any area the cons will focus on - 'strong and stable' vs 'the 3 stooges go to Brussels'. 

Pedant mode: of course if the non-Tory forces did get a majority, there wouldn't be a formal coalition anyway, or at least not one with the SNP.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> yeah - 2015 was a searing experience. But the difference this time is the genuine enthusiasm for corbyn - and the car crash of the tory campaign. It _feels_ different. My money is still on a tory majority of 40ish - but corbyn ending up in number 10 is no longer la la land. Poll are widely divergent - some considerately giving the tories a leads as low as 3 points - other consistently have the 12 pts ahead.
> Turn out of young people and previous non-voters will be key - as will the willingness of the tory base + brexity types to vote for a distinctly uninspiring candidate. It has strong echoes of Trump and Clinton - but in a good way.


Continuing the comparison, I thought Corbyn might have done a bit more to pitch himself/Labour as the party for all those alienated by conventional politicians, those who felt abandoned.  In some ways he's the ultimate politician and has been _nothing but_ a politician, but there was still a chance to drink from the well that produced brexit and Trump.  Instead of doing a left populism he's tried being the voice of decency, expressed as a nationalisation programme and also in his own demeanour.  He's teatotal, but neither has he picked up the _symbolic_ Farage pint.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> there was still a chance to drink from the well that produced brexit and Trump.


that poisoned spring


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 1, 2017)

The Pale King said:


> There was an article in Private Eye a few weeks ago raising some questions about Amber Rudd's involvement as  company director with several of her crooked father's firms. It seems she hasn't really done anything else for work than that before politics.


 
She was in four weddings and a funeral


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 1, 2017)

actually there is a very sick joke looming somewhere in that piece of information,. I am not going there


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 1, 2017)

Mays gets asked about her no show. this gets worse (well - better) the more you watch it. she's terrified.  check out the tumbleweed silence at the end as she waits for the laughter.


----------



## LDC (Jun 1, 2017)

Bloody hell, she looks like she's squirming inside.


----------



## bimble (Jun 1, 2017)

She does look terrified when she stops doing the fake laughter.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 1, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Mays gets asked about her no show. this gets worse (well - better) the more you watch it. she's terrified.  check out the tumbleweed silence at the end as she waits for the laughter.





night of the living dead


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 1, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Mays gets asked about her no show. this gets worse (well - better) the more you watch it. she's terrified.  check out the tumbleweed silence at the end as she waits for the laughter.




That face she pulls when she's trying to laugh gives me the creeps. It's like she knows what laughter is and just about understands the vague concept but just can't do it. Like Gordon Brown's terrible attempt at smiling, but malevolent.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 1, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> She was in four weddings and a funeral


blimey, she was - wtf is an 'aristocracy co-ordinator'?


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 1, 2017)

My mother was just on the phone and reports that posters she's seeing - this was in Hereford - don't say "Vote Conservative" they say "Vote Theresa May". 

For years, the Tory press have been telling themselves that May is some sort of Big Beast superhero and even some sort of sex symbol (kitten heels, anyone?!?!), but I don't think she comes across terribly well. She's never been challenged before. 

At the G7 and NATO summits, if anyone rivalled Trump in the "looking out of place" stakes it was her. And as America drifts further from the international community I wonder how TM's rush to hold hands with the Terry's Chocolate Putin in the White House looks? (This is a bit of a personal interest of mine, but I actually don't think international affairs play that great a role in elections - unless there's a war on.) 

All very inconsequential and persoality-based, no doubt, but if the Tories are banking on someone looking Strong and Stable - some Thatcher 2.0 - they'd better get her to start looking, you know, strong and stable soon.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

To _entirely_ personalise it... part of May's problem when campaigning is her material in terms of the manifesto and policies. But the other is _she's actually fucking dull_.  But dull in the way of some braying office gobshite who hasn't quite figured out how unfunny they are.  Corbyn himself isn't overly exciting, but probably has a degree of self awareness and plays to his 'dull but worthy and honest' image.  He's not an ideal leader for charging round the country enthusing people, despite the size of his leadership rallies.  But an election really exposes dreadful May is.  When it became clear she didn't know how to eat a chip, the tories probably realised they had a problem on their hands.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 1, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> I don't think she comes across terribly well.



I think that's the most complementary thing anyone has said about her since the campaign started.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 1, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> blimey, she was - wtf is an 'aristocracy co-ordinator'?


M. Le Guillotine.


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 1, 2017)

I realised she was going to be totally not up to the job when she did this killer joke at her first PMQs:


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Continuing the comparison, I thought Corbyn might have done a bit more to pitch himself/Labour as the party for all those alienated by conventional politicians, those who felt abandoned.  In some ways he's the ultimate politician and has been _nothing but_ a politician, but there was still a chance to drink from the well that produced brexit and Trump.  Instead of doing a left populism he's tried being the voice of decency, expressed as a nationalisation programme and also in his own demeanour.  He's teatotal, but neither has he picked up the _symbolic_ Farage pint.


in a very real way, we are all picking up a symbolic pint


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> in a very real way, we are all picking up a symbolic pint


One brexit, one scotch and one beer.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> blimey, she was - wtf is an 'aristocracy co-ordinator'?


the person who stage-managed public executions during the french revolution


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> M. Le Guillotine.





Pickman's model said:


> the person who stage-managed public executions during the french revolution


----------



## Cid (Jun 1, 2017)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> That face she pulls when she's trying to laugh gives me the creeps. It's like she knows what laughter is and just about understands the vague concept but just can't do it. Like Gordon Brown's terrible attempt at smiling, but malevolent.



She looks like she's about to cough up a hairball.


----------



## The Pale King (Jun 1, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> She was in four weddings and a funeral



Din't know that!


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 1, 2017)

The Pale King said:


> Din't know that!



She was the funeral.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 1, 2017)

Apparently she sleeps in a coffin filled with the earth of her homeland


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 1, 2017)

The Economist is backing the yellow losers 


> No party passes with flying colours. But the closest is the Liberal Democrats. Brexit is the main task of the next government and they want membership of the single market and free movement. (Their second referendum would probably come to nothing, as most voters are reconciled to leaving the EU.) They are more honest than the Tories about the need to raise taxes for public services; and more sensible than Labour, spreading the burden rather than leaning only on high-earners. Unlike Labour, they would reverse the Tories’ most regressive welfare cuts. They are on the right side of other issues: for devolution of power from London, reform of the voting system and the House of Lords, and regulation of markets for drugs and sex.
> We know that this year the Lib Dems are going nowhere. But the whirlwind unleashed by Brexit is unpredictable. Labour has been on the brink of breaking up since Mr Corbyn took over. If Mrs May polls badly or messes up Brexit, the Tories may split, too. Many moderate Conservative and Labour MPs could join a new liberal centre party – just as parts of the left and right have recently in France. So consider a vote for the Lib Dems as a down-payment for the future. Our hope is that they become one element of a party of the radical centre, essential for a thriving, prosperous Britain.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2017)

The Pale King said:


> Had a chat with a similarly-minded Auntie the other night. She is culturally, pre-ideologically disposed to vote Tory and never Labour, but the dementia tax and fox-hunting has her spooked and she is contemplating either sitting this one out or voting Lib Dem. I hope there are more like her...



My FIL (baby boomer, Labour voter in the 70s, working class Thatcherite) was full of smug assurance that he "had to" vote Tory because of the triple lock and Brexit prior to the election, has been sounding increasingly upset and ratty as the rug has been pulled from underneath him. Still think he might vote Tory out of pure stubbornness (he likes winding up and arguing with his son, my out-canvassing-for-Corbyn partner) but I hold out hope. It'll just really hurt for him to do this at this point, so he's precisely the person these attack ads are for; gives them a self justifying reason not to step outside their comfort zone.

eta. fucking _radical_ centre my arse. Fuck off losers.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

_Radical centre
_
ETA: Raise the standard now folks.  If that isn't a battle cry we can all get behind then I don't know what is.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> To _entirely_ personalise it... part of May's problem when campaigning is her material in terms of the manifesto and policies. But the other is _she's actually fucking dull_.  But dull in the way of some braying office gobshite who hasn't quite figured out how unfunny they are.  Corbyn himself isn't overly exciting, but probably has a degree of self awareness and plays to his 'dull but worthy and honest' image.  He's not an ideal leader for charging round the country enthusing people, despite the size of his leadership rallies.  But an election really exposes dreadful May is.  When it became clear she didn't know how to eat a chip, the tories probably realised they had a problem on their hands.



May's a rollercoaster of charisma compared to Amber Rudd, one of the best adverts I've ever seen for the idea that most Conservative politicians are alien reptiles in disguise.

Yes, it's personalising it, but that's the way we work in this country in the run-up to a GE, a huge amount of it's about the leader. Plenty of people will cut their nose off to spite their face by voting against their own interests based on whether they do or don't like this or that leader.

And I think it's a factor that May and her team didn't really think through before they called this. May can get away with looking authoritative to a lot of people when they only get the occasional power-dressed, steely-voiced glimpse of her on the news, but in larger doses it becomes parodic quite quickly, the strong-and-stable dalek, the reluctance to engage on a human level with people because either she doesn't have a personality or the one she has is horrible.

Corbyn, on the other hand, was much easier to caricature when people saw a lot less of what he's really like.


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2017)

i think we're starting to see the Tory vote wobble. Will it be enough?


----------



## treelover (Jun 1, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Thinking aloud here but I wonder if the tories decision to make it all about Brexit has backfired a bit as well.  Its become clear that the lib dems are bombing and Farron's strategy on focusing on the 48% has been a disaster. UKIP have fallen off the map and May is still gravely banging on about the negotiations like its going to be trench warfare.
> 
> It seems to me that most people have moved on now.  A few headbangers on both sides are still mad furious about it but everyone else is just getting on with their lives and trying to make the best of the situation.  Corbyn has done well by focusing on these issues whilst May and her lot just look miserable and tired and offering nothing but grim foreboding.
> 
> Dunno, it just seems to be they have misread the mood of the country a bit.



I have been watching/listening to lots about the election, lots of interviewees, callers, still very much concerned with Brexit.


----------



## treelover (Jun 1, 2017)

kabbes said:


> I have come to realise I have just as little idea on this as anybody else.  In fact less so, because the City and leafy Surrey Hills are, much to my surprise, not particularly representative of the wider country.
> 
> Within my bubble though, definitely.  Not so much that there will be a shock Labour win in true blue constituencies.  But Corbyn was perceived as a total joke, whereas now he seems to have a grudging respect. The manifesto was a huge win.  Nationalisation of the rail service is really popular even amongst the middle-aged Tory lifers.  Anybody who has to sit in a Southern or SouthWestern train every day welcomes it.  There is also a general view that utilities are natural state ventures, and this is largely as a result of seeing that our private providers are, basically, German and French state institutions.  If they can do it, why can't we?
> 
> ...



its a shame we even have to consider such people.


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2017)

treelover said:


> its a shame we even have to consider such people.



What? Commuters in the South East?


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

treelover said:


> I have been watching/listening to lots about the election, lots of interviewees, callers, still very much concerned with Brexit.



I guess that's why we're seeing such a swing to the lib dems then?

Joking aside, of course its a factor just not the only topic in town like the tories and lib dems are making out.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> What? Commuters in the South East?



I think he means humans.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

Anyway I've had my first labour flier through the door today.  I'm a bit surprised to get one really as its a straight tory v lib dem shootout here, even the greens have dropped out to help the libs.  Anyway the leaflet has a big picture of Corbyn on the first page so perhaps they are not so ashamed of their leader now.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 1, 2017)

treelover said:


> its a shame we even have to consider such people.


:Shrug:  They're just people.  There's a lot of them -- millions, probably -- just living their lives, products of their environment and upbringing.  There's no point demonising them.  Better to gradually show them that atomisation and capitalism hurts us all and take them with you on your journey.  That's society for you.


----------



## Sue (Jun 1, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> in a very real way, we are all picking up a symbolic pint


I'm an expert in picking up and drinking (non-symbolic) pints. I also have significant chip eating experience. I should very probably be the leader of a major political party.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2017)

Sue said:


> I'm an expert in picking up and drinking (non-symbolic) pints. I also have significant chip eating experience. I should very probably be the leader of a major political party.


I'm sure you can do better than zac 'two hands' goldsmith in the pint holding game.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 1, 2017)

Nigel Farage is 'person of interest' in FBI investigation into Trump and Russia

Talking of pints! 

(I know it's off-topic for this thread, but thought you might like it!)


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2017)

Thru the letterbox today


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> View attachment 108150 Thru the letterbox today



That's more like it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 1, 2017)

I don't know who's responsible for these, certainly not the Labour Party, but there's a whole bunch of them up around Leeds:


----------



## JTG (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> View attachment 108150 Thru the letterbox today


Fuck me, the Lib Dems are getting desperate


----------



## Smangus (Jun 1, 2017)

Vote Aragorn?


----------



## JTG (Jun 1, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> My mother was just on the phone and reports that posters she's seeing - this was in Hereford - don't say "Vote Conservative" they say "Vote Theresa May".
> 
> For years, the Tory press have been telling themselves that May is some sort of Big Beast superhero and even some sort of sex symbol (kitten heels, anyone?!?!), but I don't think she comes across terribly well. She's never been challenged before.
> 
> ...


Leaflet here has Charlotte Leslie "Standing with Theresa May". It's a complete cult of personality deal


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 1, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm sure you can do better than zac 'two hands' goldsmith in the pint holding game.



Holy crapamoly! Weirdo.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> View attachment 108150 Thru the letterbox today


I like how these loons are often very _specific_ - people who 'follow orders from the 1% via *Chatham House'. *


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2017)

Smangus said:


> Vote Aragorn?


Men. Men are weak. I was there that day, when half of them voted lib dem and the other half tory. When the strength of men failed. My people are leaving these shores 

etc etc


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

Smangus said:


> Vote Aragorn?


Farron-Mir


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Farron-Mir


wormtongue


----------



## Maharani (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> View attachment 108150 Thru the letterbox today


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

Nasty Hobbitses!



> Tom Brake , Alistair Carmichael ,Nick Clegg Tim Farron
> Norman Lamb Greg Mulholland Sarah Olney John Pugh Mark Williams


----------



## Poi E (Jun 1, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


>



Les grands esprits se recontrent!

Merci, Google.


----------



## 8den (Jun 1, 2017)




----------



## Poi E (Jun 1, 2017)

May is a technocrat in a world that has moved to suspicion of the uniformity of the politician cosseted by advisors. I'll wager Corbyn took a look at Trump and saw that idiosyncrasies play well at the moment; a stage managed figurine does not.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Poi E said:


> May is a technocrat in a world that has moved to suspicion of the uniformity of the politician cosseted by advisors. I'll wager Corbyn took a look at Trump and saw that idiosyncrasies play well at the moment; a stage managed figurine does not.


or maybe people are just bored with the same auld same auld


----------



## Poi E (Jun 1, 2017)

I wonder if May was flattered by the hackneyed Thatcher comparisons trotted out by the press. Or did she just start to curl up and die from that moment on?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

Poi E said:


> May is a technocrat in a world that has moved to suspicion of the uniformity of the politician cosseted by advisors. I'll wager Corbyn took a look at Trump and saw that idiosyncrasies play well at the moment; a stage managed figurine does not.



Corbyn has a lot of walls.

He has also moved decidedly from a New to an Old Testament demeanour, should have done it in 2015!


----------



## PaoloSanchez (Jun 1, 2017)




----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Holy crapamoly! Weirdo.


check out those sunken eyepits and eyebags as well. I don't need to see that except when I'm shaving.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

Hahahaha


----------



## killer b (Jun 1, 2017)

this is the actual transcript from May's interview with the Plymouth Herald.


----------



## killer b (Jun 1, 2017)

whoops actually not. How embarassing. 

This is the full thing. Not much better.

The questions put to Theresa May that Plymouth wanted answered


----------



## NoXion (Jun 1, 2017)

If she was any more clear she'd be totally transparent. Oh wait.


----------



## agricola (Jun 1, 2017)

> _Q: Do you agree with Boris Johnson about the audience at last night’s debate being the most leftwing he had seen?_
> 
> May says Amber Rudd did an excellent job in the debate.
> 
> ...


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

Fucking hell.  I know modern politicians are drilled to incredible levels to be on-message but she just seems incapable / fearful of answering the most basic of questions.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 1, 2017)

Oh, she's back to strong and stable. She looks and sounds absolutely petrified


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Oh, she's back to strong and stable. She looks and sounds absolutely petrified


wait till the eu get started on her


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Fucking hell.  I know modern politicians are drilled to incredible levels to be on-message but she just seems incapable / fearful of answering the most basic of questions.


fucking margaret thatcher could do a better job than may. and she's been dead for four years.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 1, 2017)

where can I watch this?


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> wait till the eu get started on her



This is exactly what I'm thinking.  She's supposed to be selling herself as the tough hardened negotiator but she can't even pat back a half volley from a local journo talking about transport links.  She'll be eaten alive.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 1, 2017)

killer b said:


> whoops actually not. How embarassing.
> 
> This is the full thing. Not much better.
> 
> The questions put to Theresa May that Plymouth wanted answered


This is good too:

'Three minutes of nothing': Reporter reflects on PM encounter



> She had and given me absolutely nothing. It was like a postmodern version of Radio 4's Just A Minute.
> 
> I pictured Nicholas Parsons in the chair: "The next topic is how Plymouth will be affected by Brexit, military cuts and transport meltdown. Theresa, you have three minutes to talk without clarity, candour or transparency. Your time starts now."


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

Oi, Theresa, what's your favourite colour?
- I've made my position clear on...
Do you like marmite?
- What this country needs...
Can you at least tell us where you went on that walking holiday?
- Stability is important at this time...
Have you just farted?
- Unlike Jeremy Corbyn, under my leadership...
In the formula E=MC2, what does E stand for?
- I faced Jeremy Corbyn at Prime Minister's Question Time...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Theresa May says Donald Trump is free to pull out of the Paris Agreement on climate change if he wishes


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 108176
> Theresa May says Donald Trump is free to pull out of the Paris Agreement on climate change if he wishes



Corbyn needs to pull out the 'no more hand holding with Donald Trump' line


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> This is exactly what I'm thinking.  She's supposed to be selling herself as the tough hardened negotiator but she can't even pat back a half volley from a local journo talking about transport links.  She'll be eaten alive.


i don't give a fuck about her, it's all of us she'll really be shitting on.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 1, 2017)

where can I watch this q and a? I love seeing her made a fool of tbh.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

Corbyn needs to make more of the Trump-May links really, he did a bit of it at the start of the campaign but it seems like a good way to further toxify the May brand.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 1, 2017)

Tory commentator rips into the tory campaign



> There have been plenty of dud Conservative campaigns down the decades, in which squabbles spilled over in the final weeks. Yet even accounting for the eternal tendency of Tories to moan, this latest effort from the Conservative Party ranks as possibly their worst general election campaign since before the war. By which I mean the First World War.



After this mess, Mrs May needs a relaunch


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Corbyn needs to make more of the Trump-May links really, he did a bit of it at the start of the campaign but it seems like a good way to further toxify the May brand.


i can see may snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, i really can. she's such a smear of shit it's unbelievable.


----------



## LiamO (Jun 1, 2017)

*http://newsthump.com/2017/06/01/the...lowance-for-failing-to-turn-up-for-interview/*

*Theresa May loses Jobseeker’s Allowance for failing to turn up for interview*






*Theresa May has today had her Jobseeker’s Allowance stopped for failing to turn up for an interview.*

Mrs May, who is applying for the post of Prime Minister, was repeatedly warned that failing to turn up for an interview would harm her chances of receiving benefits.

Department for Work and Pensions spokesperson Simon Williams said, “It’s very simple – to show us that jobseekers are serious about a job we expect them to attend interviews and answer questions so that we can gauge their suitability for the post.

“Otherwise we assume that they’re not up to the job, or just work-shy bastards, and dock their money.

“We might have to give the job to someone else now, though fuck knows who. This is the worst shower of applicants I’ve ever seen.”

Mrs May defended her decision not to turn up, saying that she was dead busy and they never sent her a letter or nothing and anyway she sent her mate Amber along who’s dead good at interviews and aced it for her.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> Tory commentator rips into the tory campaign
> 
> 
> 
> After this mess, Mrs May needs a relaunch



A relaunch into fucking space


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 1, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> fucking margaret thatcher could do a better job than may. and she's been dead for four years.



Maybe if Theresa May used Thatcher's decomposing corpse as a ventriloquist's dummy she could have it do and say all the things she's apparently too stiff and awkward to do and say herself.

Just imagine her making it loom at people like Rod Hull did with Emu, going 'can't you stay at least ten feet away from me, you revolting proles?' in a spooky dead-Maggie voice without moving her lips.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Maybe if Theresa May used Thatcher's decomposing corpse as a ventriloquist's dummy she could have it do and say all the things she's apparently too stiff and awkward to do and say herself.
> 
> Just imagine her making it loom at people like Rod Hull did with Emu, going 'can't you stay at least ten feet away from me, you revolting proles?' in a spooky dead-Maggie voice without moving her lips.


margaret thatcher was cremated and is buried in the grounds of the chelsea hospital. Margaret Thatcher's ashes interred at Royal Hospital Chelsea - BBC News


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 1, 2017)

LiamO said:


> *Theresa May loses Jobseeker’s Allowance for failing to turn up for interview*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This needs a link:
http://newsthump.com/2017/06/01/the...lowance-for-failing-to-turn-up-for-interview/
Looks like you're pretending you've written it yourself. Credit is due


----------



## LiamO (Jun 1, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> This needs a link:
> http://newsthump.com/2017/06/01/the...lowance-for-failing-to-turn-up-for-interview/
> Looks like you're pretending you've written it yourself. Credit is due



looks like I cut out the article link when I was chopping all the adverts and links and cookie shite off it - cos some cunt or other would be moaning about it if I left them in.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 1, 2017)

LiamO said:


> looks like I cut out the article link when I was chopping all the adverts and links and cookie shite off it - cos some cunt or other would be moaning about it if I left them in.


you just need the link, surely?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

Wow, what is going on?


----------



## CrabbedOne (Jun 1, 2017)

On Bloomberg Top U.K. Pollsters Say Theresa May Likely to Boost Her Majority




I'm guessing getting down into that pink range based purely on bird signs. Polls are all over the place trying to compensate for screwing up on last GE in England. These estimates are based on the assumption that not enough young or poor voters will turn out once more. You never know Corbyn could deliver a Trump like shock which would be nice for a change.


----------



## Smangus (Jun 1, 2017)

falling apart , hopes ......

Starting to grin a little bit at her obvious stress.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> This needs a link:
> http://newsthump.com/2017/06/01/the...lowance-for-failing-to-turn-up-for-interview/
> Looks like you're pretending you've written it yourself. Credit is due


I knew Liam hadn't written it. There was no mention of Joey Barton.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Wow, what is going on?






So May sends Amber Rudd on the telly debates even though she's just lost her dad, the Sun Tweets about it hoping to draw sympathy for Rudd's terrible showing, everyone else says "fuck me that's a bit cold hiding behind a grieving daughter" so Greening's drafted in at the last minute as the stand-in for the stand-in? On the very program which just got in the news for giving May's opposite number a rough ride?

Thick of It comparisons are often overused but seriously this is like a draft rejected for being too silly.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 1, 2017)

I guess there might be some cunning plan but it does give the _look _that she's running scared. I mean the WH audience is hardly going to be massive, but her not turning up to it is going to be a story to a much wider audience.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Rob Ray said:


> So May sends Amber Rudd on the telly debates even though she's just lost her dad, the Sun Tweets about it hoping to draw sympathy for Rudd's terrible showing, everyone else says "fuck me that's a bit cold hiding behind a grieving daughter" so Greening's drafted in at the last minute as the stand-in for the stand-in? On the very program which just got in the news for giving May's opposite number a rough ride?
> 
> Thick of It comparisons are often overused but seriously this is like a draft rejected for being too silly.


I see may really does make the difficult decisions. Strange she gets them all wrong.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> I guess there might be some cunning plan but it does give the _look _that she's running scared. I mean the WH audience is hardly going to be massive, but her not turning up to it is going to be a story to a much wider audience.



She has to do the thing on the BBC the next day as well, where it will be brought up alongside her non-attendance at the other debate. It looks very weak. Is Jim Messina just giving us Clinton-scale fuck ups? Is an algorithim or something telling them to do this? The same algorithim that told Clinton not to campaign in Wisconsin?


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> I guess there might be some cunning plan but it does give the _look _that she's running scared. I mean the WH audience is hardly going to be massive, but her not turning up to it is going to be a story to a much wider audience.


Woman's Hour is probably not a topic Labour want to return to, but they will have to now.  With all this dodging interviews and mind numbing waffle when she does, there must be something they can say along the lines of: 'Brexit needs somebody who doesn't run scared, who faces up to issues.  Running away isn't strong or stable'.


----------



## LiamO (Jun 1, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> you just need the link, surely?



Don't call me Shirley!

FFS. I was tring to c&P but when I pasted it, it kept showing Mr X (fb friend) and x others Like this and loads of other shit. next time I'll pm you the link and you can fuckin post it


----------



## LiamO (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I knew Liam hadn't written it. There was no mention of Joey Barton.



bit nawty that Wilf . Not pwopah nawty, but nawty nonetheless.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

Has anyone considered  the possibility that May might be unwell in some way?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Has anyone considered  the possibility that May might be unwell in some way?


she's just shit


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Has anyone considered  the possibility that May might be unwell in some way?



She looks like she is under huge amounts of stress.  The times she has shown up she's rough and her body language is awful, really like she doesn't want to be there.

Hopefully its just stress from knowing she's potentially staring down the barrel of going down in history for all the wrong reasons.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 1, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> she's just shit



This as well.


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Has anyone considered  the possibility that May might be unwell in some way?



She was well enough at my gym on Sunday afternoon .


----------



## tommers (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Has anyone considered  the possibility that May might be unwell in some way?


Had crossed my mind to be honest. Something is going on.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

tommers said:


> Had crossed my mind to be honest. Something is going on.


She'll be dead by weds in a bid to get the sympathy vote


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Has anyone considered  the possibility that May might be unwell in some way?


What a pleasant thought


----------



## Smangus (Jun 1, 2017)

Someone said that she has type 1 diabetes, if so all this running around the country with irregular hours etc can't be helping her manage it. That's before the stress of being a complete fucking dead eyed drone, losing most of the arguments and looking like a u turn Muppet.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Smangus said:


> Someone said that she has type 1 diabetes, if so all this running around the country with irregular hours etc can't be helping her manage it. That's before the stress of being a complete fucking dead eyed drone, losing most of the arguments and looking like a u turn Muppet.


If that's the case the tories will want to ditch her asap


----------



## LiamO (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> She was well enough at my gym on Sunday afternoon .



Wot? ou saw her working out last Sunday? Or was she just pressing flesh rather than pumping iron?


----------



## Cid (Jun 1, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> I guess there might be some cunning plan but it does give the _look _that she's running scared. I mean the WH audience is hardly going to be massive, but her not turning up to it is going to be a story to a much wider audience.



I suspect the cunning plan is 'if she gets interviewed she'll fuck up, so don't let her get interviewed'.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 1, 2017)

Cid said:


> I suspect the cunning plan is 'if she gets interviewed she'll fuck up, so don't let her get interviewed'.


She kind of reminds me of Pamela Doove in The League Of Gentlemen


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

Cid said:


> I suspect the cunning plan is 'if she gets interviewed she'll fuck up, so don't let her get interviewed'.



Yes, the whole thing reminds me a lot of the Democratic primaries. The more people see of May the less they like, the more they see of Corbyn the more they like him.


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 1, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> If that's the case the tories will want to ditch her asap



I'm certain even if they get a 100+ seat majority she won't be leading them into any more elections. She'll be gone a year or so after Brexit.


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2017)

LiamO said:


> Wot? ou saw her working out last Sunday?



Yep.


----------



## Smangus (Jun 1, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> If that's the case the tories will want to ditch her asap



Whereas we would all like to see her found in a ditch, knife in back (winks at Mr Gove).


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Has anyone considered  the possibility that May might be unwell in some way?


I wondered about this in that Plymouth interview. I thought she was just about keeping the logic of her sentences together, even if she was spectacularly avoiding the questions asked, but she did look wired.  Something going on with her eyes.  I'm trying to avoid amateur diagnoses here, though Labour will be calculating whether its a good idea to have a go about her health.  If there really is something going on, a no more than averagely cynical spin doctor would go for the jugular (Alistair Campbell would already be ring the news rooms).  Corbyn, scruples?


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

Cid said:


> I suspect the cunning plan is 'if she gets interviewed she'll fuck up, so don't let her get interviewed'.


When you put it like that...


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 1, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> She kind of reminds me of Pamela Doove in The League Of Gentlemen



 
Amber Rudd at last nights debate


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

LiamO said:


> Wot? ou saw her working out last Sunday? Or was she just pressing flesh rather than pumping iron?


"_Yeah, yeah, Theresa's been spotting for me for a couple of years. She did get banned though for not wearing the right shoes_"


----------



## brogdale (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Has anyone considered  the possibility that May might be unwell in some way?


Yes.
I'm beginning to wonder what stories will be revealed when she's replaced after June 8th. I'm loath to say so, but maybe she is struggling with stress-related MH issues?


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2017)

Maybe she's just realised she's fucked up big time (anything short of a significant increased majority is a defeat for her) and has given up?


----------



## The Octagon (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Has anyone considered  the possibility that May might be unwell in some way?



Clinton had that wobble during the campaign that Trump and his supporters seized upon, this is all starting to look a bit familiar tbh.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Yes.
> I'm beginning to wonder what stories will be revealed when she's replaced after June 8th. I'm loath to say so, but maybe she is struggling with stress-related MH issues?



Yes, that occurred to me as well as someone who has had problems with MH issues.  I don't feel sorry for her though, I hope it is taken advantage of as much as possible and however possible, since her being elected would cause so many others with those very same issues to suffer even more.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> Maybe she's just realised she's fucked up big time (anything short of a significant increased majority is a defeat for her) and has given up?



Not just May, everyone in cabinet looks like their breakfast cornflakes had piss in them.

and by contrast look at Thornberry, Corbyn, McDonnell, Gardiner. They all look like they are buzzing.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

Polonium laced chips.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Yes, that occurred to me as well as someone who has had problems with MH issues.  I don't feel sorry for her though, I hope it is taken advantage of as much as possible and however possible, since her being elected would cause so many others with those very same issues to suffer even more.


Exactly; there's no point is wasting sympathy for those that presume to govern us to advance such an anti-social agenda...still feel slightly uncomfortable speculating about MH issues. That said...summat's up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Polonium laced chips.


In the middle's a picture of her with her alien eyes displayed


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 1, 2017)

I reckon she just needs some sort of pick-me-up

.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Yes, that occurred to me as well as someone who has had problems with MH issues.  I don't feel sorry for her though, I hope it is taken advantage of as much as possible and however possible, since her being elected would cause so many others with those very same issues to suffer even more.


Yep. My twist on that is that if Labour's spin doctors go for her MH, in a way, _they_ are cunts.  But fucking hell, _she_ deserves any amount of shit that's coming down the line.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Yep. My twist on that is that if Labour's spin doctors go for her MH, in a way, _they_ are cunts.  But fucking hell, she deserves any amount of shit that's coming down the line.



If they can do it in a way that means that they don't come off that way then they should do it. Think about all of the suicides Tory governments have caused because people with MH problems had DLA taken off of them.


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2017)

I don't think there's anything wrong with her.

That said, she made it all about her, and her superior ability to do tough negotiations, so.....


----------



## brogdale (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> If they can do it in a way that means that they don't come off that way then they should do it.


Cue Dr Who meme....


----------



## brogdale (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with her.



Urgh...@chilango loves Theresa...(repeat walking around playground).


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with her.
> 
> That said, she made it all about her, and her superior ability to do tough negotiations, so.....


... and if you make the whole thing about your toughness, _there's no way you'd run and hide_,  so there's bound to be speculation about her health.


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Urgh...@chilango loves Theresa...(repeat walking around playground).



It's just locker room talk...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> I don't think there's anything wrong with her.
> 
> That said, she made it all about her, and her superior ability to do tough negotiations, so.....


But... But she's a *tory*  there *must* be something wrong with her


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

By the by, before we get too worked up about this, I can't see any confirmation that she's not doing the interview.


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2017)

Spoiler: Internet Diagnosis 



Profile of the Sociopath


----------



## brogdale (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> By the by, before we get too worked up about this, I can't see any confirmation that she's not doing the interview.


Show us a confirmation that she is doing the interview and we can stop this speculation.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Show us a confirmation that she is doing the interview and we can stop this speculation.


That's the spirit 	   Habeas corpus!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2017)

Corbyn should go on loose women. They regularly have a male guest who they gently rib and discuss things with. Bradley Walsh was on once and they loved him. Cheekie chappie cockney charm you see


----------



## brogdale (Jun 1, 2017)

Lot's of tweeter people saying same thing about her being the ultimate *shy tory*.
Mind you, not as good as yesterday's "Bricks it means bricks it."


----------



## newbie (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Has anyone considered  the possibility that May might be unwell in some way?


I thought that last weekend but no-one seemed to agree. 

I've not liked the politics of any of the previous pms, but they've all struck me as being sharp and on the case.  She's neither.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 1, 2017)

Cid said:


> I suspect the cunning plan is 'if she gets interviewed she'll fuck up, so don't let her get interviewed'.


This is obviously it. Her minders give her stock phrases to say, which she repeats with diminishing relevance when the questions change, she only gets to meet handpicked people, and she won't even do a radio show that Corbyn's already done.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Has anyone considered  the possibility that May might be unwell in some way?


Yes. But why not tell us? Why leave us thinking she's just incompetent?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 1, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes. But why not tell us? Why leave us thinking she's just incompetent?


you don't show weakness in that game D. And thats how poor health would be viewed.


----------



## Cid (Jun 1, 2017)

On the illness thing, it's not as if she's been doing nothing; she's been (obviously) to Plymouth, Bath yesterday. She's quite competently going around doing what she does best; rattling out prepared lines while looking down at people (she's fucking good at that, i mean she's only 5' 6"). She does have diabetes and that may, _may_ be affecting her, but fuck - she has very good docs, and she's been dealing with it for her period as HS and PM.

they must have stuck a podium in for that Bath video.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 1, 2017)

Cid said:


> On the illness thing, it's not as if she's been doing nothing; she's been (obviously) to Plymouth, Bath yesterday. She's quite competently going around doing what she does best; rattling out prepared lines while looking down at people (she's fucking good at that, i mean she's only 5' 6" but she can appear as though she's heads over a factoryload of blokes). She does have diabetes and that may, _may_ be affecting her, but fuck - she has very good docs, and she's been dealing with it for her period as HS and PM.


I know several people with type 1 diabetes (which is her type), and while it's obviously a serious condition, they know how to manage it. One even runs marathons. And, as you say, she's the fucking PM! She'll have access to the best medical advice going!


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

_'Ladies and gentlemen, I have a short statement: the Prime Minister has the shits. She's been on the Arret Melts all night, but was worried she might leave an impression on the Woman's Hour chairs'_.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 1, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> you don't show weakness in that game D. And thats how poor health would be viewed.


Depends what it is.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

Ooh, it's official(ish):
Theresa May ducks out of Woman's Hour interview- sending a sub on!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> _'Ladies and gentlemen, I have a short statement: the Prime Minister has the shits. She's been on the Arret Melts all night, but was worried she might leave an impression on the Woman's Hour chairs'_.


A stain on her reputation


----------



## Smangus (Jun 1, 2017)

The world's fallen out of her bottom.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Ooh, it's official(ish):
> Theresa May ducks out of Woman's Hour interview- sending a sub on!


The leadership succession hots up.



> A BBC source says that Woman’s Hour bid for *Theresa May* and was told by the Conservatives that she wasn’t available. The broadcaster had been planning for the last few weeks to air an interview with *Amber Rudd*, the home secretary, on Friday. But a last-minute substitution of *Justine Greening*, the education secretary, has now been made.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 1, 2017)

_That's_ the reason! She's just proud of her team! I _knew_ there'd be a simple explanation!


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 1, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Yes.
> I'm beginning to wonder what stories will be revealed when she's replaced after June 8th. I'm loath to say so, but maybe she is struggling with stress-related MH issues?



She seemed to go really flaky just after the Manchester attack. 

Maybe she really _did _sign off on an MI5 risk assessment for sending a bunch of Mancunians, including various members of the Abedi family, off to Libya to train as Islamist-terrorists by way of overthrowing Qaddafi?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 1, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> She seemed to go really flaky just after the Manchester attack.
> 
> Maybe she really _did _sign off on an MI5 risk assessment for sending a bunch of Mancunians, including various members of the Abedi family, off to Libya to train as Islamist-terrorists by way of overthrowing Qaddafi?


No-one else could have done tbf.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

brogdale said:


> The leadership succession hots up.
> 
> ​


Didn't know you had to bid for may, like she was some malign lot in a vile auction


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

Is it too early to be thinking about the music for her state funeral?


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

brogdale said:


> The leadership succession hots up.
> 
> ​


Kremlinology.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Is it too early to be thinking about the music for her state funeral?


Everybody dance now


----------



## chilango (Jun 1, 2017)

She'll make it to the QT Special though right?right?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Is it too early to be thinking about the music for her state funeral?


She will have a funeral as grand as mozart's


----------



## binka (Jun 1, 2017)

I see Corbyn announced his Brexit team today - Starmer, Thornberry and Gardiner.

Surely those three come across as much more capable than Johnson, Davis and Fox? Keir Starmer was just in C4 news - think that's the first time I've seen him on tv during the campaign.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 1, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> margaret thatcher was cremated and is buried in the grounds of the chelsea hospital. Margaret Thatcher's ashes interred at Royal Hospital Chelsea - BBC News



Yeah, to prevent exactly the eventuality I described, if you ask me


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

binka said:


> I see Corbyn announced his Brexit team today - Starmer, Thornberry and Gardiner.
> 
> Surely those three come across as much more capable than Johnson, Davis and Fox? Keir Starmer was just in C4 news - think that's the first time I've seen him on tv during the campaign.


Not saying much, is it. Pick three people at random off the streets and they'd do a better job than jdf


----------



## mauvais (Jun 1, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> This is obviously it. Her minders give her stock phrases to say, which she repeats with diminishing relevance when the questions change, she only gets to meet handpicked people, and she won't even do a radio show that Corbyn's already done.


Her media training seems to have consisted of one thing and one thing only: to laugh disparagingly whilst shaking her head. It must have taken serious Rocky-style investment to get it properly nailed down, and yet at best only half of this little set piece works on radio, so I'm not surprised she's bowed out of that one. The telly has the opposite problem - you can't have the security-cleared cat whisperer run in to feed her more orphan livers every time she pulls it off successfully.


----------



## binka (Jun 1, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Not saying much, is it. Pick three people at random off the streets and they'd do a better job than jdf


True but if the last week is going to be all about Brexit the question of who you want negotiating for Britain might not go how the tories expected


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 1, 2017)

binka said:


> True but if the last week is going to be all about Brexit the question of who you want negotiating for Britain might not go how the tories expected


Johnson shouldn't be on the team, he's pathological. He's there so he gets shafted and isn't going to try to topple tm.


----------



## agricola (Jun 1, 2017)

binka said:


> True but if the last week is going to be all about Brexit the question of who you want negotiating for Britain might not go how the tories expected



Especially if she's unlikely to turn up.  In fact this whole election may just have been an exercise in avoiding two months of negotiations, if she wins we'll probably have another foot and mouth outbreak preventing all ministerial cross-channel travel, which will probably be followed by the country being placed under an interdict or the raids of the North-men making the sea unsafe.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 1, 2017)

agricola said:


> Especially if she's unlikely to turn up.  In fact this whole election may just have been an exercise in avoiding two months of negotiations, if she wins we'll probably have another foot and mouth outbreak preventing all ministerial cross-channel travel, which will probably be followed by the country being placed under an interdict or the raids of the North-men making the sea unsafe.


No deal is better than a bad deal, remember? See also: _WarGames_' "the only winning move is not to play". So like that but with bendy bananas instead of modem sounds, and probably lots more irradiation by the end of it. Or just staying in the house with the curtains closed throughout the entirety of Article 50's expiration hoping that Broderick will sort it.


----------



## Beermoth (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Wow, what is going on?




Theresa May died on the way back to her home planet.


----------



## bemused (Jun 1, 2017)

Good greif that Tim Farron interview was as awful as people said it was.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 1, 2017)

chilango said:


> She'll make it to the QT Special though right?right?


She pulls out of that and I might start to join the "Corbyn might do it" believers, that would look absolutely fucking terrible.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 1, 2017)

Also Trumps decision doesn't hurt Labour, plenty of hay to be made there - and probably with those important swing voters.


----------



## mather (Jun 1, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Also Trumps decision



About what?


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 1, 2017)

mather said:


> About what?


Paris climate agreement


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Also Trumps decision doesn't hurt Labour, plenty of hay to be made there - and probably with those important swing voters.



Another thing he can hammer her on 'no more hand holding'.


----------



## teqniq (Jun 1, 2017)

Well this is all going swimmingly bad for the vermin, whether it is bad enough for them to to lose or result in a hung parliament who can say?


----------



## mather (Jun 1, 2017)

Oh, ok. However the environment is not that big of a deal in this election (it should be) so it may not have an effect either way.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 1, 2017)

The importance of climate change is less the issue than the fact that Labour can attack May for sucking up to Trump. Maybe I'm just totally out of the loop but my impression is that bar the absolute batshit loonies (who there never going to vote Labour) people in the UK, even lots of Tories, despise Trump*. He's a major turn off and this gives Labour an excuse to use this against May. It's another hit on the 'strong and stable' mantra. 

*Certainly here in Aus even longtime LNP people really dislike Trump, and that just goes double for swing voters.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

Owen Jones was sent this apparently


----------



## Wilf (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Owen Jones was sent this apparently


Maybe she's saving it up for one _really, really, REALLY_, big interview?


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 1, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Maybe she's saving it up for one _really, really, REALLY_, big interview?



Back on the One Show to discuss who washes up and who dries?


----------



## Raheem (Jun 1, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> Back on the One Show to discuss who washes up and who dries?



"I'm very clear that it is important to people in towns like this one that plates are both clean and also dry. That's what my strong and stable leadership will be about."


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 1, 2017)

There's always a money tree for banks bailouts...


----------



## donkyboy (Jun 1, 2017)

Anyone know labour's position on right to buy. The BBC website says labour will suspend RTB. But I've just had labour campaigners on my doorstep who say this is not true and BBC have got it wrong. So who is telling the truth?


----------



## mauvais (Jun 1, 2017)

You went a bit off on a tangent there Theresa, don't be getting bogged down in specifics. How about we go with:


Raheem said:


> "I'm very clear that it is important to people in towns like this one that plates are


----------



## oryx (Jun 1, 2017)

donkyboy said:


> Anyone know labour's position on right to buy. The BBC website says labour will suspend RTB. But I've just had labour campaigners on my doorstep who say this is not true and BBC have got it wrong. So who is telling the truth?


From their manifesto:  Labour will suspend the right-to-buy policy to protect affordable homes for local people, with councils only able to resume sales if they can prove they have a plan to replace homes sold like-for-like.


----------



## magneze (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Another thing he can hammer her on 'no more hand holding'.


He's just basically said exactly that, with a picture of her holding Trumps hand, on his Facebook.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 1, 2017)

magneze said:


> He's just basically said exactly that, with a picture of her holding Trumps hand, on his Facebook.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 1, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Also Trumps decision doesn't hurt Labour, plenty of hay to be made there - and probably with those important swing voters.





redsquirrel said:


> The importance of climate change is less the issue than the fact that Labour can attack May for sucking up to Trump. ... It's another hit on the 'strong and stable' mantra.





Fez909 said:


>


Unsurprisingly, as other world leaders line up to condemn Trump's actions, May is notable in her silence.

Hell, even the mayor of New York is saying he's basically going to ignore Trump and sign the city up to Paris independently!


----------



## J Ed (Jun 1, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Owen Jones was sent this apparently



Owen Jones has said that he has verified that this does in fact come from a BBC journo.


----------



## Smangus (Jun 2, 2017)

wow never been an election like this

off, cart, wheels , loving it.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 2, 2017)

Another no-show:


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 2, 2017)

Daily Express headline tomorrow "Corbyn Doesn't Believe In Britain".

He insists that he resides in Pepperland from the disappointing Beatles animation "Yellow Submarine", the out of touch hippie bastard.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 2, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> Another no-show:




Don't be such a cynic. This is a touching act of solidarity with her leader.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 2, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Don't be such a cynic. This is a touching act of solidarity with her leader.


It's brave to lie about being invited when you _actually replied _to the invite by email.

Maybe she's just the kind of inspiration we need going into these tough Brexit talks


----------



## agricola (Jun 2, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> It's brave to lie about being invited when you _actually replied _to the invite by email.
> 
> Maybe she's just the kind of inspiration we need going into these tough Brexit talks



TBH its even more impressive that you can give, as an reason for missing a hustings, the excuse that you need to use your time to speak to voters in your constituency.


----------



## Celyn (Jun 2, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Polonium laced chips.



Above: Theresa May with chips in a seaside town.

Nicola Sturgeon with chip in a seaside town.





Obviously, Anstruther has better and more popular chips.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 2, 2017)

In  suspiciously suppressed polling predictions**, May/Tories are going to get a  landslide of 116 absolute majority. 

**from January 

Plus also, the Queen Is Dead already and no-one's reporting that either


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 2, 2017)

Can Jazzz be unbanned pl? 

We need many more stupidly implausible/wonderful conspiracy theories about all this.

Plus also, the odd one about the Queen too, if conspiranoids can be arsed right now ...


----------



## Celyn (Jun 2, 2017)

donkyboy said:


> Anyone know labour's position on right to buy. The BBC website says labour will suspend RTB. But I've just had labour campaigners on my doorstep who say this is not true and BBC have got it wrong. So who is telling the truth?


Well, Housing being a devolved matter, I can tell you that Labour certainly did not get rid of RTB all the time they were in charge in Scotland. I am happy to see that Labour might be developing some thinking about that.

Labour had from 1997 to 2010 to put an end to buying council houses.

It did not.

_*EDIT*:  I suppose I ought to make it clear that RTB is no longer happening  in Scotland. But it was not the Labour Party that stopped it,_


----------



## donkyboy (Jun 2, 2017)

oryx said:


> From their manifesto:  Labour will suspend the right-to-buy policy to protect affordable homes for local people, with councils only able to resume sales if they can prove they have a plan to replace homes sold like-for-like.



Cheers. So basically, the two labour campaigners either were lying or do not know their own manifesto as they both told me to look up the manifesto as suspending it is not mentioned there . She even said look it up on internet and use Control F to find it


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Jun 2, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Another thing he can hammer her on 'no more hand holding'.



yep, he's done just that:


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 2, 2017)

Looking forward to Lynton Crosby's tell-all post-retirement book about the worst PM ever.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2017)

Labour leafleting at Dorking station again today.  I took their leaflets and am going to leave them prominently on the train when I change in one stop.

I'm impressed at their dedication.  7am leafleting in a constituency that they lost by 54% last time round -- 60% to 6%!


----------



## Smangus (Jun 2, 2017)

I was walking home from the station (Catford ) when I heard something like "Srceerch..."last Labour" ...whistlepop.. "ernment"hiss...crackle...."ote Conservat" bang... Fizz" 

Then an ancient knackered Ford Fiesta came whizzing by driven by a spotty youth. It had 2 tannoys strapped to the roof and was blaring out some sort of tory message on a loop. It was so amateur it was fucking hilarious.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 2, 2017)

P


kabbes said:


> Labour leafleting at Dorking station again today.  I took their leaflets and am going to leave them prominently on the train when I change in one stop.



A friend who's done some Tory mythbusting postcards (not official party stuff) has been slipping them into newspapers in supermarkets and shops. Might be a good guerrilla tactic.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2017)

leaflet from the tories adressed to me personally. STRONG AND STABLE with mays face on the front, not hollobones. Niether visage is pleasing to mine eye. Straight in the bin


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2017)

This morning's regular Labour "give us your money" email, from John McDonnell:



> I spoke with Jeremy this morning and he couldn't wait to tell me: *we made history yesterday*. In a way only our movement could.
> 
> The target he set was an ambitious one: to raise £500,000 by polling day. But brilliant, generous, passionate Labour supporters like you raised *over £400,000* before the day was out.
> 
> ...


*
*
It's working though, these begging emails.  I bunged them a tenner last week on the back of polling surges giving me hope.  Never thought I'd give the Labour Party money, and I wouldn't have done either if they hadn't been persistent about it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2017)

a whole tenner? sir, your generosity is astounding


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> a whole tenner? sir, your generosity is astounding


Let's not go crazy.  It's still the Labour Party.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> a whole tenner? sir, your generosity is astounding


you wouldn't believe what he gave the lib dems


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> leaflet from the tories adressed to me personally.


I've been getting a lot of those too, plus ads on social media. I'm assuming it's because my Labour MP only has a maj. of 2.5k. Of course, only makes me more determined to vote for the bugger.

One of them uses the same phrase I've seen on other campaign material, "I'm standing with Theresa May". And sure enough, there's a photo of him on the front, standing with Theresa May.

Probably regretting that now. Lucky to have tracked her down, really.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> you wouldn't believe what he gave the lib dems


Away with your clickbait posting! We'll have none of that here!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 2, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> you wouldn't believe what he gave the lib dems



eugh ... Did he post it to Mark Oaten?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> eugh ... Did he post it to Mark Oaten?


some of it


----------



## Voley (Jun 2, 2017)

Anyone know if Political Scrapbook are reliable?

They've just reported that May is refusing all interviews with BBC Radio:

Theresa May is now refusing to do any interviews with BBC Radio | Political Scrapbook


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Voley said:


> Anyone know if Political Scrapbook are reliable?
> 
> They've just reported that May is refusing all interviews with BBC Radio:
> 
> Theresa May is now refusing to do any interviews with BBC Radio | Political Scrapbook


It's off the back of that Owen Jones thing, from an unknown 'BBC' source. No idea if it's been further corroborated beyond that point.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2017)

Voley said:


> Anyone know if Political Scrapbook are reliable?
> 
> They've just reported that May is refusing all interviews with BBC Radio:
> 
> Theresa May is now refusing to do any interviews with BBC Radio | Political Scrapbook


Owen Jones claims to have had an anonymous tip off from a BBC journalist to that effect too.

What I was going to say is that we need to ask of him: was the tip off sent to him alone, and if so, why? If others have had it, where are we seeing that? (I haven't read this link yet so don't know if Jones is the source: will get back). And if the email was anonymised, how did he check it was genuine (as he claims to have done quite soon after going public with it)?

ETA. Jones' tweet is the source. So that's all the corroboration we have so far: Jones word that he checked and it's kosher. (How did he check? Did the anonymous person out themselves? Why anonymise the email in the first place then?)


----------



## Voley (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> It's off the back of that Owen Jones thing, from an unknown 'BBC' source. No idea if it's been further corroborated beyond that point.


Yeah I think they're exaggerating it. Owen Jones is saying it's just local interviews. Not sure if that's such a big deal tbh. I'm sure you could argue that in the last week of an election campaign your time would be best spent on national media.

Eta:


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> I'm assuming it's because my Labour MP only has a maj. of 2.5k. Of course, only makes me more determined to vote for the bugger.


I'm assuming its cos this is a majority leave town and hollobones lead is big enough that perhaps they are worried the vote will be complacent and not turn out. If its anything other than a tory win here I will be astonished


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2017)

So now we know why she's pulled all the media.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2017)

brogdale said:


> So now we know why she's pulled all the media.


Has something specific happened of which I am unaware?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Has something specific happened of which I am unaware?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

Great timing


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 108236


I did see that, but why does that mean that May doesn't want to do any local radio interviews?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2017)

kabbes said:


> I did see that, but why does that mean that May doesn't want to do any local radio interviews?


You're joshing?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2017)

brogdale said:


> You're joshing?


he's not


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> Unsurprisingly, as other world leaders line up to condemn Trump's actions, May is notable in her silence.
> 
> Hell, even the mayor of New York is saying he's basically going to ignore Trump and sign the city up to Paris independently!


Paris climate deal: PM May tells Trump of 'disappointment' - BBC News

So, she's "disappointed", but even that was only said in a phone conversation with Trump _after he called her_. This is the great leadership we can expect? More passive than attempts to clean up my flat


----------



## Cid (Jun 2, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Owen Jones claims to have had an anonymous tip off from a BBC journalist to that effect too.
> 
> What I was going to say is that we need to ask of him: was the tip off sent to him alone, and if so, why? If others have had it, where are we seeing that? (I haven't read this link yet so don't know if Jones is the source: will get back). And if the email was anonymised, how did he check it was genuine (as he claims to have done quite soon after going public with it)?
> 
> ETA. Jones' tweet is the source. So that's all the corroboration we have so far: Jones word that he checked and it's kosher. (How did he check? Did the anonymous person out themselves? Why anonymise the email in the first place then?)



BBC journo figuring Jones is the type to report on this... Maybe, just maybe they're doing it in the public interest rather than for personal gain (unlikely, I know). Edgy because presumably he/she is breaking their contract. Jones gives some standard guarantee of anonymity to the source, or gets them to confirm via some accepted method (journos must be doing this shit all the time, I'm sure there are loads of systems in place).


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2017)

brogdale said:


> You're joshing?


It's only local interviews she's pulled out of. Presumably the national reporters have heard the news about Mackinlay.


----------



## Combustible (Jun 2, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Great timing



Is it really that good this to happen now? I'm happy to be wrong, but there seems to be the danger that you have something like election expenses which most people ultimately don't care about knocking issues which people care more about out of the headlines.


----------



## Cid (Jun 2, 2017)

Possibly knows Jones, but not 'the BBC will never employ you again, we're fucking ending you' know.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

brogdale said:


> View attachment 108236



They knew this was coming that's why they all looked fucking awful for a week.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> It's only local interviews she's pulled out of. Presumably the national reporters have heard the news about Mackinlay.


She won't do any.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 2, 2017)

Combustible said:


> Is it really that good this to happen now? I'm happy to be wrong, but there seems to be the danger that you have something like election expenses which most people ultimately don't care about knocking issues which people care more about out of the headlines.



I don't think it be that big an issue anyway.  Just another little bit of awkwardness the tories would rather not have.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2017)

Combustible said:


> Is it really that good this to happen now? I'm happy to be wrong, but there seems to be the danger that you have something like election expenses which most people ultimately don't care about knocking issues which people care more about out of the headlines.


takes some shine off that 'strong and stable' doesn't it? Wether people give a shit or not (I struggle to, its all a rigged game anyway etc) its making the party look shit and corrupt 6 days before we vote. Dunno if it'll change any minds at this point, who can fathom the mind of the last minute floaters?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

Combustible said:


> Is it really that good this to happen now? I'm happy to be wrong, but there seems to be the danger that you have something like election expenses which most people ultimately don't care about knocking issues which people care more about out of the headlines.



There's a synergy here tho. Plays into the people vs crooked Tories narrative.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> takes some shine off that 'strong and stable' doesn't it? Wether people give a shit or not (I struggle to, its all a rigged game anyway etc) its making the party look shit and corrupt 6 days before we vote. Dunno if it'll change any minds at this point, who can fathom the mind of the last minute floaters?


It's small beer compared to the fear & loathing from the older voters re #dementiatax...but helpful, nonetheless.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

By itself it's trivial but it's another sign of things coming of the wheels of the Tory party and that could be damaging, if you're presenting yourself as strong and stable. Collectively these incidents are damaging even if individually they are very minor.

EDIT: and it means CCHQ has to spend time talking about this, Trump, May's no show rather than the issues it want's to spend time on - Brexit, immigration etc


----------



## Voley (Jun 2, 2017)

Was that bloke's seat considered safe prior to this? No Farage for people to vote for this time round etc.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2017)

Cid said:


> BBC journo figuring Jones is the type to report on this... Maybe, just maybe they're doing it in the public interest rather than for personal gain (unlikely, I know). Edgy because presumably he/she is breaking their contract. Jones gives some standard guarantee of anonymity to the source, or gets them to confirm via some accepted method (journos must be doing this shit all the time, I'm sure there are loads of systems in place).


OK, but I think it's fair to ask the questions. If this goes wider and Jones isn't the only source (i.e. other reporters dig at the BBC or CCHQ to see if it's true, because more than one person knows this if it's happened!), then I'll be less cautious. And I'm not saying Jones is lying. And it definitely fits the pattern, if true. But I'm all for healthy scepticism, especially where there's only one source.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2017)

And Mackinlay is still a candidate in South Thanet.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

Also the faux debate thing is tonight. She will have to deal with it, answer for it.


----------



## killer b (Jun 2, 2017)




----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2017)

brogdale said:


> She won't do any.


Well not now, I imagine! 

"I've always been absolutely clear that commenting on things in this particular place is not desirable"


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2017)

I like how it was thanet, they were so determined to beat farage they got reckless with the cheating. lol.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

Voley said:


> Was that bloke's seat considered safe prior to this? No Farage for people to vote for this time round etc.


Labour held it from 1997 until 2005, though I doubt even with this that they'll be able to retake it. In 2010 Cons had a 8000 majority.

ETA: FWIW YouGov's seat predictor has it down as a safe Tory


----------



## killer b (Jun 2, 2017)

FWIW: there is no downside to this story - the tories being charged with election fraud a week before an election? How could that not go against them, especially considering they're already cunting it right up? 

It may not be electorally significant in and of itself - but it feeds into the ongoing narrative of the Tories in disarray. It's another kick in the balls.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2017)

brogdale said:


> You're joshing?


Well, why local specifically?  If she pulls out of all interviews, that's more understandable.  But that hasn't been suggested yet.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Also the faux debate thing is tonight. She will have to deal with it, answer for it.


But not specifically, because it's now sub judice.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2017)

Celyn said:


> Above: Theresa May with chips in a seaside town.
> 
> Nicola Sturgeon with chip in a seaside town.
> 
> ...



Could never imagine May in that scrum.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Well, why local specifically?  If she pulls out of all interviews, that's more understandable.  But that hasn't been suggested yet.


Just occurred to me, it does derail her "I'm not doing national debates because I'm getting out there and talking to the people locally" shtick.


----------



## Voley (Jun 2, 2017)

I've actually found the last few days of this campaign genuinely interesting. First time in years. Schadenfreude, mainly, but still. Really don't know how it's going to pan out in a weeks time now. I've got a feeling I might be stumbling into work having had no sleep whatsoever on the 9th.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 2, 2017)

treelover said:


> Could never imagine May in that scrum.



Of course not.  She's made it quite clear that letting children have a hot meal is not acceptable.	Christ, May is literally taking food from the mouthhs of babes.


----------



## Cid (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> Just occurred to me, it does derail her "I'm not doing national debates because I'm getting out there and talking to the people locally" shtick.



That may be why they've been using the 'planning brexit' line of late.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 2, 2017)

Voley said:


> I've actually found the last few days of this campaign genuinely interesting. First time in years. Schadenfreude, mainly, but still. Really don't know how it's going to pan out in a weeks time now. I've got a feeling I might be stumbling into work having had no sleep whatsoever on the 9th.



The sound of tories sharpening their knives has become deafening. Normally it worries me because no matter how disgraceful their leader is they always manage to find worse, this time around though I think they'd struggle to do that.  Johnson or Leadsom possibly?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Cid said:


> That may be why they've been using the 'planning brexit' line of late.


They're changing tack more often than... nope, I don't know sailing well enough to make this work.


----------



## 8den (Jun 2, 2017)

Christ the BBC aren't even pretending anymore....





Taken from a post production facebook group. "Rigging" means laying cabling for electrics and lights.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2017)

I liked Corbs's line about how the tories wanted to feed kids a thimble of rice krispies.


----------



## Smangus (Jun 2, 2017)

brogdale said:


> She won't do any.



Yeah Margate FM are fuming....


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

Apparently Farron refusing to say whether he thinks homosexuality is a sin on a call in just now. 

TBF to the twat his point that it's the actions that matter I've some sympathy with but looks bad.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 2, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Apparently Farron refusing to say whether he thinks homosexuality is a sin on a call in just now.
> 
> TBF to the twat his point that it's the actions that matter I've some sympathy with but looks bad.



Yeah, he seems to be making the theological point about it not being up to him to declare what is a sin but he should know thats not how politics works and he should be able to explain it better.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Yeah, he seems to be making the theological point about it not being up to him to declare what is a sin but he should know thats not how politics works and he should be able to explain it better.


Yeah, considering he's been attacked on it previously you'd think the LDs would have come up with a better answer for him to use.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2017)

like what? If you think gay sex is a sin then you are a homophobe, theres no getting round that is there?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Apparently Farron refusing to say whether he thinks homosexuality is a sin on a call in just now.
> 
> TBF to the twat his point that it's the actions that matter I've some sympathy with but looks bad.


Establishes a hypocrisy - shouts how he's a christian, argues that his beliefs don't matter that much. What's going to hell vs a democratically arrived at party policy? What else is he prepared to ditch as not mattering - and if they don't matter then he's just an empty suit and anyone can do his job - there's no reason to vote for him or hist party.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Yeah, he seems to be making the theological point about it not being up to him to declare what is a sin but he should know thats not how politics works and he should be able to explain it better.


By his words he has put himself in the position of either saying that it is a sin or isn't - either way he's judging what is and isn't a sin. That's the ground he's chosen. And to to try and foist it onto a neutral idea of a content and judgement free politics/legal process to get out of the hole is typically cowardly


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 2, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> like what? If you think gay sex is a sin then you are a homophobe, theres no getting round that is there?



I dunno. Actions speak louder than thoughts.  Just cause you think someone's going to hell doesn't mean you have to treat them any different in the earthly realm does it?


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 2, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> By his words he has put himself in the position of either saying that it is a sin or isn't - either way he's judging what is and isn't a sin. That's the ground he's chosen. And to to try and foist it onto a neutral idea of a content and judgement free politics/legal process to get out of the hole is typically cowardly



For sure, he's boxed himself into the corner.


----------



## treelover (Jun 2, 2017)

> A Message from Debbie Abrahams MP- Shadow Secretary of State for Work and Pensions:
> 
> Dear all,
> 
> ...



Pls circulate


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 2, 2017)




----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Tories in Reading following May's lead and not turning up to debate the other Parties.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Got this thru the door today...

Very dangerous gambit this one, no?

Bet they're regretting it now


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> View attachment 108273
> 
> Got this thru the door today...
> 
> ...


You won't get 200:1 now, that's for sure.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

Is that an advert for the Tories rather than Labour?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2017)

it's interesting that they're putting trump and brexit in the same type of category as corbyn winning (ie something negative)


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> it's interesting that they're putting trump and brexit in the same type of category as corbyn winning (ie something negative)


not if it's an anti-labour leaflet


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> it's interesting that they're putting trump and brexit in the same type of category as corbyn winning (ie something negative)



...and you'd think they'd be trying to win the votes of the Trump and Brexit leaning voters rather than give them the nod to vote Labour.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> not if it's an anti-labour leaflet



after that well publicised hand-holding episode? among other things?


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> ...and you'd think they'd be trying to win the votes of the Trump and Brexit leaning voters rather than give them the nod to vote Labour.



exactly!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> after that well publicised hand-holding episode? among other things?


i'm sure a lot of Tory supporters are not fans of Trump either, like many Republicans


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> it's interesting that they're putting trump and brexit in the same type of category as corbyn winning (ie something negative)


you can see this a lot in analysis from some quarters- its the whole notion that 'populism' is a dirty word. Its an attempt as old as time by liberals to say the left are as bad as these right demagogues and ooh everyones lost their heads. Melenchon, sanders and corbyn lumped in the same breath as le pen and trump.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

...and if they thought Corbyn had a chance of winning then why on Earth did they call the election?

Either:

They're lying on their leaflets about it
They're stupid
Or something has changed since they called it. Wonder if they'd like to explain what that is ?


----------



## Wilf (Jun 2, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> it's interesting that they're putting trump and brexit in the same type of category as corbyn winning (ie something negative)


As an anarchist I take a perverse pleasure in taking seriously the tricks, scare stories and levers of influence that act as the internal logic of conventional politics.  Whilst I still think the tories will win, its interesting (and actually quite hopeful) if some of this is breaking down - for example the idea that a lab-snp de facto alliance can't be used to freak people.  That was certainly part of brexit and trump, the distrust of conventional politics - the positive part.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2017)

Wilf said:


> As an anarchist I take a perverse pleasure in taking seriously the tricks, scare stories and levers of influence that act as the internal logic of conventional politics.  Whilst I still think the tories will win, its interesting (and actually quite hopeful) if some of this is breaking down - for example the idea that a lab-snp de facto alliance can't be used to freak people.  That was certainly part of brexit and trump, the distrust of conventional politics - the positive part.


yeh. no one should trust someone who wants to bring in a dementia tax when they say 'a vote for the other party is a vote for nastiness' or whatnot.


----------



## killer b (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> ...and if they thought Corbyn had a chance of winning then why on Earth did they call the election?
> 
> Either:
> 
> ...


There was much discussion of this strategy early on in the campaign - there was concern that it was such a foregone conclusion some of the Tory vote might not bother mobilising - so the Tories were talking up Labour's chances in order to get those voters out.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> ...and if they thought Corbyn had a chance of winning then why on Earth did they call the election?
> 
> Either:
> 
> ...


or all of the above


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 2, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Banned from the city for being even too crooked for them to bear I believe.  That takes some doing.  Something about apples falling close to trees.



Boiler rooms, ramping and the usual "line your own pockets at the expense of others" shit that such scum indulge in.  Rudd worked for her dad's companies too, something she keeps off of her CV.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 2, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> My mother was just on the phone and reports that posters she's seeing - this was in Hereford - don't say "Vote Conservative" they say "Vote Theresa May".
> 
> For years, the Tory press have been telling themselves that May is some sort of Big Beast superhero and even some sort of sex symbol (kitten heels, anyone?!?!), but I don't think she comes across terribly well. She's never been challenged before.



She was Home Sec in a government where most decision-making was even more centralised than Labour under Blair and Brown.  She was rarely challenged not least because the opposition - and the small section of the media that actually questioned the coalition govt - knew that the decisions coming out of her department, weren't HER decisions.  She got the leadership on the strength of a *perception* of toughness that she never remotely married up to.  Unfortunately for her, the perception has unravelled prior to, rather than after a G.E.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 2, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Hahahaha




Always fun seeing Marky get upset.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 2, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> you can see this a lot in analysis from some quarters- its the whole notion that 'populism' is a dirty word.



My (ex DM reading but coming round) MiL came out with

"That Corbyn's a bit like Trump don't you think?"
"?????!?!!?"
"He just promises a lot of what people want"


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Jun 2, 2017)

I found this to be quite revealing:

BBC Radio 4 - Desert Island Discs, Rt Hon Theresa May - Music Played


----------



## newbie (Jun 2, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


>



splendid, I hope that spreads all over fb etc.


----------



## Cid (Jun 2, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I found this to be quite revealing:
> 
> BBC Radio 4 - Desert Island Discs, Rt Hon Theresa May - Music Played



The queen of the night aria is certainly apt...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2017)

Cid said:


> The queen of the night aria is certainly apt...


----------



## Cid (Jun 2, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


>




Well quite...

Impressive piece of music mind you. Almost makes you think opera is worth bothering with.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2017)

Cid said:


> Well quite...
> 
> Impressive piece of music mind you. Almost makes you think opera is worth bothering with.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 2, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> you can see this a lot in analysis from some quarters- its the whole notion that 'populism' is a dirty word. Its an attempt as old as time by liberals to say the left are as bad as these right demagogues and ooh everyones lost their heads. Melenchon, sanders and corbyn lumped in the same breath as le pen and trump.



Usually said by someone who then claims to be a radical centrist.


----------



## Cid (Jun 2, 2017)

Well the graun is with labour...


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

Cid said:


> Well the graun is with labour...



I was sure they'd endorse the yellow tories lol


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I was sure they'd endorse the yellow tories lol



the economist has endorsed them even though it says they are dreadful and heading for a dismal result


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> the economist has endorsed them even though it says they are dreadful and heading for a dismal result



They are the perfect choice for their privately educated virgin Blairite sixth former demographic


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2017)

Theres a bit in the groan, opinion piece talking about how they'd been ashamed to be pro-corbz for a while cos everyone was calling him shit and useless and his plitics daft etc

Thats what happens when you share office space with nick 'stop being a fucking fool' cohen eh


----------



## Beermoth (Jun 2, 2017)

Cid said:


> Well the graun is with labour...



They'd be backing the Lib Dems if they were doing better in the polls.

Actually, they'd be backing the Tories if they were doing better in the polls.


----------



## Lorca (Jun 2, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> I found this to be quite revealing:
> 
> BBC Radio 4 - Desert Island Discs, Rt Hon Theresa May - Music Played



who would have thought she was also into psy-trance


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 2, 2017)

Has Theresa May not committed contempt of court with her gobbing in to the Conservative fraud case?


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Is it too much to hope for a proper May meltdown on QT tonight? y'know a "ripping her mike off and storming off stage after calling an audience member a cunt after overindulging in the green room to calm her nerves" type meltdown?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> Is it too much to hope for a proper May meltdown on QT tonight? y'know a "ripping her mike off and storming off stage after calling an audience member a cunt after overindulging in the green room to calm her nerves" type meltdown?


I'm watching QT for the first time in years in the very hope


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm watching QT for the first time in years in the very hope



I'm glad I'm not alone!


----------



## magneze (Jun 2, 2017)

Wonderful first question and follow up.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> I'm glad I'm not alone!


I'm already finding it a bit too excruciating to watch. May have to duck out early.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

May is doing much better in this than she did in the previous faux debate.


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> Is it too much to hope for a proper May meltdown on QT tonight? y'know a "ripping her mike off and storming off stage after calling an audience member a cunt after overindulging in the green room to calm her nerves" type meltdown?



That would probably give her a poll surge. Better she does a Diane Abbott.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

She's getting an easy ride thus far.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 2, 2017)

the questions she's being asked are shit


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 2, 2017)

I feel really let down.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 2, 2017)

She's pissing this.


----------



## magneze (Jun 2, 2017)

Yeah, bit shit now. Just a bit dull.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

The look on her face when that nurse spoke reeked of 'I don't give a fuck about your vote, you dirty peasant.'


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

I don't think she's putting on an impressive performance, it's just easy and dull.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 2, 2017)

Only in comparison to previous disasters - in broader terms I think she's still taking a kicking.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

Life on Mars is on over on UK Drama, like all Labour voters I'm turning away from May to go back to the '70s.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

She's not doing well with this one


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 2, 2017)

Magic money tree's come out again.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 2, 2017)

A powerful statement from the partially sighted woman, a dead response. Fuck she's loathsome


----------



## Blagsta (Jun 2, 2017)

She's had some beta blockers


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 2, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Magic money tree's come out again.



Getting close to a line on my bingo card...


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 2, 2017)

Losing it on the mental health question and atos bastards.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

She can't be winning anyone over with this, can she?

Surely it's just about not losing anyone else...


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

Doing a pro job here.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2017)

At last, the North Korean connection!


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2017)

My god, this man is more boring than she is


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 2, 2017)

we've got the UKIP loon corner going


----------



## mojo pixy (Jun 2, 2017)

Reading this commentary is way better than actually watching. Mind you, that's true for me with all politics, which is why I come here.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

2 ina ROW


----------



## oryx (Jun 2, 2017)

Really piss poor lot of questions on the whole.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 2, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Magic money tree's come out again.


To be fair, she's 'very clear' about it and I always feel better when she tells me the 'sky isn't going to fall in'. Exposed chicken licken for the right untrustworthy bastard that he is.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2017)

I think education is _so _important


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

If a red faced cunt ever says  LARGESSEE just get out


----------



## mauvais (Jun 2, 2017)

Who apart from the actual Childcatcher says 'youngster'?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 2, 2017)

Calamity1971 said:


> To be fair, she's 'very clear' about it and I always feel better when she tells me the 'sky isn't going to fall in'. Exposed chicken licken for the right untrustworthy bastard that he is.


also


> She says you may hear later on (from Jeremy Corbyn) that money can be spent on anything. It can’t, she says.


I mean we all know you can't spend money on just anything.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2017)

One minute, someone light her up a fag ready...


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2017)

I'm worried he's been wearing the same clothes all week. He's gotta hum under those lights


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

table is bad.

It's attracting an unneeded arm.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

He's not bad at this is he?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

Farron's step dad intervenes.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

He's still not got a great answer to that SNP question. Just say you'll make a fucking deal because that's what people do, for fuck's sake.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

Innit. How can you not make a deal with the SNP if they have most seats in Scotland?


----------



## Ted Striker (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> He's not bad at this is he?



I love it as his voice steels and rides the wave of applause after he starts to provide an answer


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> 12/1 for amber rudd as next tory leader


With her track record?  They're not that stupid, surely.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

Why would a Labour minority gov need to make _a_ deal with the SNP? They aren't going to back the Tories over you (if they do fantastic! Labour vote in Scotland is resurrected)

Deals on specific legislation sure but they wouldn't need either a coalition or supply and demand bill.


----------



## magneze (Jun 2, 2017)

May grimly dull but effective if you don't spot that she doesn't answer anything.

Corbyn very good so far. He looks the part.


----------



## Ted Striker (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> He's still not got a great answer to that SNP question. Just say you'll make a fucking deal because that's what people do, for fuck's sake.



Game theory. He doesn't have to accept the deal until he's home and dry (and the Scum/Tories have 5 years of "so fucking what...dry 'em"). He just needs to avoid dismissing them or denegrating them out of hand.

I just need him to compare magic money tree to quantitative easing and/or wars.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Why would a Labour minority gov need to make _a_ deal with the SNP? They aren't going to back the Tories over you (if they do fantastic! Labour vote in Scotland is resurrected)


A coalition? Or can that not happen with a national party?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Why would a Labour minority gov need to make _a_ deal with the SNP? They aren't going to back the Tories over you (if they do fantastic! Labour vote in Scotland is resurrected)


You want them to make _the _deal? _Two_ deals? I'm losing the article game


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2017)

I may be biased, but relatively speaking Jeremy appears to be knocking it out of the park right now...


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> A coalition? Or can that not happen with a national party?


It can but why would Labour, or the SNP for that matter, bother? Wouldn't be in either interest.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Ted Striker said:


> Game theory. He doesn't have to accept the deal until he's home and dry (and the Scum/Tories have 5 years of "so fucking what...dry 'em"). He just needs to avoid dismissing them or denegrating them out of hand.
> 
> I just need him to compare magic money tree to quantitative easing and/or wars.


But he has to be able to consider it, surely? He can't say "no" and then turn around and make a deal. U-turning before he's even formed a government!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> It can but why would Labour, or the SNP for that matter, bother? Wouldn't be in either interest.


Don't they need a majority to rule?


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 2, 2017)

So far, this is his best performance I've seen on his campaign


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> You want them to make _the _deal? _Two_ deals? I'm losing the article game


Sorry see edit, a Labour minority administration would probably need to make deals on specific pieces of legislation to get them through but that could be done on a case by case basis.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Don't they need a majority to rule?


Nope.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Nope.


Who'd be in the cabinet then?


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

BTW does anybody know if Labour are proposing to scrap the fixed-term parliament act? Apparently the Tories are.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Bit of a softball question for him there.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Who'd be in the cabinet then?


Well whoever the PM wants, but if we're talking about a Labour minority government then Labour MPs and Lords


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Jeremy's soothing voice has got my 5 year old back to sleep.


----------



## xenon (Jun 2, 2017)

Nuclear weapons. Fucks sake.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

"I wouldn't press the button because it would kill hundreds of thousands of innocent people, basically out of spite. If you don't like that, don't vote for me"

Pleeeeeeaaaaase!

Ach, "your party has decided..." - I hate this framing that goes on everywhere that going with your party is weak leadership


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

"It's our safety we need to look out for first" - how is nuking anyone safe for us?! Think it through beyond the mushroom cloud you daft pillocks!


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

Lizard man speaketh.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 2, 2017)

He's doing well, though he needed of her to have a shocker.  That adds up to a win for her.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

Why wouldn't you kill us all to save face, Mr Corbyn?


----------



## magneze (Jun 2, 2017)

Nuke em, nuke em. Sigh.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Dimbleby's got him on the ropes.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

The reality is we want you to say you'll kill a few million people once we're all dead. VENGEANCE IS MINE SAYETH THE AUDIENCE!


----------



## xenon (Jun 2, 2017)

Why won't you kill millions of people you monster


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2017)

Ooh, Iran's going to bum us


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Workers' Bomb Jeremy, c'mon.


----------



## Ted Striker (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> But he has to be able to consider it, surely? He can't say "no" and then turn around and make a deal. U-turning before he's even formed a government!



But the second he makes the move, he's crowned king. Tories/Lib Dems have no comeback obviously, where's the criticism coming from? Any supporter will bit Sturgeons arm of to keep the Tories out. It's an obvious damage limitation piece to avoid acknowledgment pre-voting


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

Pub bores ramble on.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Saved by the lady in the audience


----------



## Wilf (Jun 2, 2017)

ffs, he should just say if someone nuked Britain he leave it to the military, or somesuch bollocks.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

Christ


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

Depressing how few people understand how nuclear weapons really work. If a country that could actually nuke us did nuke us... we'd be dead. Most of us anyway. Maybe disgruntled cunt of suburban Kent is a deep optimist who wants to be the last one watching Johnny Foreigner fry as he sits in the slag heap remains of his home but beyond that it'd make no difference.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

All the energy has gone out of Corbyn after the nuclear thing, he thinks that he has fucked it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Fairly well constructed question there.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

J Ed said:


> All the energy has gone out of Corbyn after the nuclear thing, he thinks that he has fucked it.


I do worry that'll be the story of this one.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

The man in the audience is talking about businesses that are unviable if they can't afford to pay people enough to live on.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> I do worry that'll be the story of this one.



Of course it will.

I don't think it will damage him, but it may take some of his momentum away.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> I do worry that'll be the story of this one.



Mail or Sun headline I'd bet.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> The man in the audience is talking about businesses that are unviable if they can't afford to pay people enough to live on.


He's saying that he is. He's not really is he?


----------



## Ted Striker (Jun 2, 2017)

Blatant Tory plant trying to big up zero hour contracts


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> The man in the audience is talking about businesses that are unviable if they can't afford to pay people enough to live on.


Again I'm left wishing Corbyn (or others) would say "to hell with votes" and make that point too.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> i run a business and don't wan't to pay more to workers. Can you tell me why you want to male me p
> 
> He's saying that he is. He's not really is he?


No, it's my response to what he's saying


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Oh, fuck me, IRA _again _


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> Oh, fuck me, IRA _again _


iPlayer must be way behind the telly as these comments seem to precede what I'm hearing


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> No, it's my response to what he's saying



eh?



> The man in the audience is talking about businesses that are unviable if they can't afford to pay people enough to live on.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

"You were talking to them" - that's not the same as 'supporting' someone. C'mon man, fuck's sake...


Orang Utan said:


> iPlayer must be way behind the telly as these comments seem to precede what I'm hearing


Aye, think there's usually a bit of lag to iPlayer.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

just push the button, shut these cunts up you coward


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> The man in the audience is talking about businesses that are unviable if they can't afford to pay people enough to live on.



Not talking for him but 'micro businesses' cover everything down to family corner shops where entire families can only have tenuous connections to minimum or living wages in real terms without anyone really profiting from it. Having something like tax credits to support those people is no bad thing.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2017)

Nuclear war and the IRA and yet it's Corbyn who wants to go back to the 1970s


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> eh:


Yes. Any business that cannot pay their workers enough is unviable so if that man is moaning about the £10 an hour, he's either greedy or his business in unviable.


----------



## Ted Striker (Jun 2, 2017)

Surely there's a point where the nuclear fetishists step back and sheer respect at how he doesn't back down and say "fuck it, yes, bomb them, bomb them all...It's never going to happen anyway. I'll promise to you right now fly the fucking plane myself"

I would have had a photoshoot in the Vulcan years ago if it got me a few more votes.


----------



## JimW (Jun 2, 2017)

Frigg it, no frigates


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

Corbyn: See, I know military shit - frigates, gawd bless the Navy, guns.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)




----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


>




Shit, thinking the exact same thing


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

That was all a bit shit really, wasn't it?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

The biggest threat to my faith in humanity will always be listening to the fuckers talk.

Jesus christ...


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

Was that as bad as it looked?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2017)

Oh, is that it? I was expecting them to go out with a rousing sing song


----------



## Edie (Jun 2, 2017)

I thought he was impressive


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

Love to base my politics around a British nuclear exchange with Iran and North Korea


----------



## Wilf (Jun 2, 2017)

He did very well and benefitted from going second. But she did well enough.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Having said that, if all that this has given them to go at Corbyn is that he won't commit to nuking people, well, it's not much of a win really is it.

May was worse, but was largely forgettable.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Was that as bad as it looked?



As a Cumbrian-Lancastian, yeah. And York is the best they've got.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 2, 2017)

What is the obsession about with repeatedly asking him 'will you kill millions of people?'


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> Having said if all that this has given them to go at Corbyn is that he won't commit to nuking people, well, it's not much of a win really is it.
> 
> May was worse, but was largely forgettable.


Definitely all going to be about Labour tomorrow in the headlines.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Love to base my politics around a British nuclear exchange with Iran and North Korea



He should have just told them that neither country really gives a fuck about us because we're not important enough. Would have had aneurysms.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> What is the obsession about with repeatedly asking him 'will you kill millions of people?'



'Magic Money Tree' wasn't catchy enough 'Cowardly aversion to mass slaughter' was next on the list.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> What is the obsession about with repeatedly asking him 'will you kill millions of people?'


To a lot of people it's important.

I'd be lying if I said I understood exactly why, but I think it's notions of safety, of strength, of our place on the world stage. They focus on that and forget what killing hundreds of thousands of people actually is.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Definitely all going to be about Labour tomorrow in the headlines.



_Tomorrow_!??


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> _Tomorrow_!??


Meant the paper headlines


----------



## Wilf (Jun 2, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> What is the obsession about with repeatedly asking him 'will you kill millions of people?'


Didn't think he dealt with it well though, retreating to the 'no first use' formula.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2017)

My succinct QT analysis, based on the bits I could manage watching without headbutting the screen:

Corbyn did okay
May's an evil cunt
The audience were mainly either evil cunts or fucking idiots, depending on how charitable you're feeling


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> To a lot of people it's important.
> 
> I'd be lying if I said I understood exactly why, but I think it's notions of safety, of strength, of our place on the world stage. They focus on that and forget what killing hundreds of thousands of people actually is.



Some people, not lots. Not in my experience anyway, even among the Tories I've known not many have had the sort of raging hard on for nuclear apocalypse some of those lads in the audience had. Granted they'd still think Corbyn is soft, but the badgering, fantasising idiocy from the audience is still a rarity I reckon.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 2, 2017)

It's odd in the most simplistic logic level ever...it's like calling someone a 'social justice warrior'... Social justice is bad?

'You won't kill millions of people!' Killing millions of people is good? 

Fucks sake.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

BLOW US UP!!! COWARD.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 2, 2017)

just watching the highlights on the news. As an edit it sounds better for him/worse for her.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 2, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> What is the obsession about with repeatedly asking him 'will you kill millions of people?'



They know that he won't commit to annihiliating the human race, the fucking idiot... if he was smart he would be willing to end our species over a nuclear exchange with a country like Iran which does not even have nuclear weapons.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> our place on the world stage


This bit itself I really don't understand.

A question for bloke or blokella on the street: *why do you give a fuck?*


----------



## JimW (Jun 2, 2017)

Wilf said:


> just watching the highlights on the news. As an edit it sounds better for him/worse for her.


Just thought the same, even included that mad young woman who was against mass murder.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> It's odd in the most simplistic logic level ever...it's like calling someone a 'social justice warrior'... Social justice is bad?
> 
> 'You won't kill millions of people!' Killing millions of people is good?
> 
> Fucks sake.


But I think the issue is they don't frame it in terms of killing people, they frame it terms of protecting people.

While we hear "I won't kill people", _they_ hear "I won't protect you".

Ach, sorry ,what the fuck do I know. I'm depressed. My fellow humans are even more idiotic than I am.


YouSir said:


> Some people, not lots. Not in my experience anyway, even among the Tories I've known not many have had the sort of raging hard on for nuclear apocalypse some of those lads in the audience had. Granted they'd still think Corbyn is soft, but the badgering, fantasising idiocy from the audience is still a rarity I reckon.


Aye, fair point mebbe. Still seems to be enough to make a big deal of it.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

Corax said:


> This bit itself I really don't understand.
> 
> A question for bloke or blokella on the street: *why do you give a fuck?*


Start a thread on it, there's a couple of people (at least) on U75 that have said that it's one of the reasons why they won't vote for Corbyn


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

Corax said:


> This bit itself I really don't understand.
> 
> A question for bloke or blokella on the street: *why do you give a fuck?*



The innate historical awareness we all have that tells us that if we don't have a place on the _World Stage_ then the people who do will happily fuck us over.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 2, 2017)

TIL Erectile dysfunction is a big problem for fat, red-faced 55-year-old QT audience members. Jezza can still get it up. I heard Diane Abbott often hangs a red flag off it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

Corax said:


> This bit itself I really don't understand.
> 
> A question for bloke or blokella on the street: *why do you give a fuck?*


"National pride", bragging rights, feeling important, that bollocks.


----------



## magneze (Jun 2, 2017)

Would anyone change their vote as a result?


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> BLOW US UP!!! COWARD.









Ahead of the game...


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> Aye, fair point mebbe. Still seems to be enough to make a big deal of it.



Lock yourself in the right room and Illuminati conspiracies, Pizza related human sacrifice and the abandonment of the gold standard can all seem like a big deal too. Especially if there's a media outlet or two in the background to say that's sensible.

Maybe I'm just being optimistic though, maybe people really do care deeply about megadeaths.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 2, 2017)

magneze said:


> Would anyone change their vote as a result?


Not on the issue but again it's about impressions - has he got the backbone to fight? Is he weak? etc etc


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> Ahead of the game...



Needs to be changed to Corbyn's face on it.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2017)

Wilf said:


> just watching the highlights on the news. As an edit it sounds better for him/worse for her.


Good.  She's an utter cunt.  I had little opinion of her before she took over from Cameron.  I've since come to detest her at least on a par with Gideon, Lansley, Hunt, or IDS.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 2, 2017)

magneze said:


> Would anyone change their vote as a result?



I'm going to vote for the Lib Dems now out of pity for Tim Farron who never gets invited to anything important.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> But I think the issue is they don't frame it in terms of killing people, they frame it terms of protecting people.
> 
> While we hear "I won't kill people", _they_ hear "I won't protect you".


 You are right...

'Go on...kill millions of people, do it for me'


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

"Crypto-communist cabal" Boris Johnson claims.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> Ahead of the game...


Mars not Earth.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Not on the issue but again it's about impressions - has he got the backbone to fight? Is he weak?


The stronger man has the backbone to talk.

Ow... ah.. stop, stop fucking hitting me... piss off... Alright, alright, you can have my lunch money


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 2, 2017)

This guy is a potential minister of defence in a future Tory government. You can tell by the stain spreading on his pants as he talks about nuking people.

"Central casting, we need a swivel-eyed loon to ask Corbyn about Trident ...  "

"Coming right up ...  "


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Start a thread on it, there's a couple of people (at least) on U75 that have said that it's one of the reasons why they won't vote for Corbyn





YouSir said:


> The innate historical awareness we all have that tells us that if we don't have a place on the _World Stage_ then the people who do will happily fuck us over.





Lord Camomile said:


> "National pride", bragging rights, feeling important, that bollocks.



Fucking ridiculous.

Leave the rest of the world alone FFS.  It won't miss us, I promise.


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 2, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> This guy is a potential minister of defence in a future Tory government. You can tell by the stain spreading on his pants as he talks about nuking people.



Is he related to Redwood?!


----------



## mauvais (Jun 2, 2017)

I dunno why he didn't just turn it round and ask em to explain, hey all you von Brauns with the uncontrollable Strangelove eyebrows, tell us how we're ever going to nuke anyone without getting nuked back by everyone else.

Steely British resolve I expect, and a really big umbrella.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

mauvais said:


> I dunno why he didn't just turn it round and ask em to explain, hey all you von Brauns with the uncontrollable Strangelove eyebrows, tell us how we're ever going to nuke anyone without getting nuked back by everyone else.
> 
> Steely British resolve I expect, and a really big umbrella.


Indeed. I wish they'd do that more often, to be honest. Ask the public to justify their mad ideas.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

I'm not convinced that banging on about nuking people or not is a great tactical move by the Tories.

Labour should just keep on about social care, education etc. on the doorstep and not get sidetracked here.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 2, 2017)

Well, also, "tell us under what circumstances you think an already bad situation could be improved by nuking someone, I'm genuinely curious"

(butchers example above apart obviously)


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Greens' Jonathan Bartley pretty much endorsing Corbyn on the BBC just now...


----------



## Wilf (Jun 2, 2017)

magneze said:


> Would anyone change their vote as a result?


Nah but he was quite wooden in his reply.  The no first use phrase is fine, but you at least need a reply as to what happens when the bombs start flying.  It's all bollocks, all nonsense, there's no real 'correct' answer, but he still should have had a better form of words to hand.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Not shit. Minimum wage questioner is a Tory Party member...


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2017)

chilango said:


> I'm not convinced that banging on about nuking people or not is a great tactical move by the Tories.
> 
> Labour should just keep on about social care, education etc. on the doorstep and not get sidetracked here.


It would (IMO) have been a far easier option for Corbyn to set out some specifics:

eg "I'm ruling out first use, but if they diss my mum I'll press the button"

Not that - but you get the idea.

He's consistently refused to do so though, which is kind of... grown-up and reasonable.  Which is a bit weird for a major politician.

It may, however, turn out to be quite a genius strategic move, even if strategy wasn't his motivation.  My totally non-representative impression snapshot (of people I've spoken to) suggests it's not gone down badly at all, even amongst those who aren't naturally on his side.  We shall see, eh...


----------



## Hollis (Jun 2, 2017)

magneze said:


> Would anyone change their vote as a result?



Defence and the IRA stop him getting the extra votes he needs...

See, that was the political genius of our Tony and New Labour c1997... do all the nice public service stuff, and be tough with the tough guys..


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Is he related to Redwood?!


he does have that weird chin wobble thing going on


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 2, 2017)

mauvais said:


> I dunno why he didn't just turn it round and ask em to explain, hey all you von Brauns with the uncontrollable Strangelove eyebrows, tell us how we're ever going to nuke anyone without getting nuked back by everyone else.
> 
> Steely British resolve I expect, and a really big umbrella.


He did vote for Trident tbf


----------



## JimW (Jun 2, 2017)

Can't think that anyone shifting in the polls recently hadn't heard the bomb and terror lines before, though he did need a straight answer.


----------



## chilango (Jun 2, 2017)

Interesting to see some of the questioners being interviewed just now.

IMO kinda undermines them a bit. Takes away that "ordinary member of the public" veneer. Good for Corbyn (if anyone other than me is still watching!)


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

I may be personally against poofs but the party manifesto isn't. I democratically bow.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 2, 2017)

Just going off the comments of non-political friends who've watched it (though keep in mind they aren't red-faced DM reading 65 year olds), they found the nuclear weapons bit surreal, thought Corbyn did better than May and various negative comments on her personality.

The normal suspects from the mainstream commentariat seem to, at worst be putting it down as a draw, some giving the edge to Corbyn, all noting May did better the previously


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 2, 2017)

Hollis said:


> Defence and the IRA stop him getting the extra votes he needs...


They haven't stopped him getting any votes in a GE. Wait till there are votes to be counted.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2017)

Yep, that's how democracy works, and is why discourse is so crucial.

(((homophobes)))


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2017)

The defence thing is undermined a bit by the fact that Theresa cut the numbers of police and accused them of scaremongering though?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> The defence thing is undermined a bit by the fact that Theresa cut the numbers of police and accused them of scaremongering though?


The debate -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> logic


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> The debate -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------> logic



Last night at the hustings the tory was banging on and on about how dangerous it is to let corbyn into number 10 and members of the audience were 'reminding' her of that


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2017)

"He refused to say he would defend us... he would not protect us"


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 2, 2017)

BLOWUSUP!


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 2, 2017)

Hollis said:


> See, that was the political genius of our Tony and New Labour c1997... do all the nice public service stuff, and be tough with the tough guys..



Ugh.


----------



## Corax (Jun 2, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> View attachment 108329
> 
> "He refused to say he would defend us... he would not protect us"


Makes sense.

He's not specifically said that he wouldn't invite foreign hordes to invade our borders and make off with our crops and women.  WHY HASN'T HE MADE HIS POSITION CLEAR ON THIS???


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 2, 2017)

He hasn't reassurred me that his farts do not smell really bad on occasion. How can I trust someone like that? What if he lets one go and I suffocate? Fart on them, let them die before me because I want to die after _them, not before. _That would be great.


----------



## newbie (Jun 2, 2017)

I trust May would use nuclear weapons first.  That's what being strong & stable means, right? being prepared to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 2, 2017)

newbie said:


> I trust May would use nuclear weapons first.  That's what being strong & stable means, right? being prepared to launch a pre-emptive nuclear strike.



Some right bellends asking questions on QT


----------



## teqniq (Jun 3, 2017)

Classy


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2017)

Apologies if this has already been posted, though I don't think it has, I certainly haven't seen it... but this advert is really good and very powerful. 



Really good, populist stuff.


----------



## teqniq (Jun 3, 2017)

Tories U-turn on plan to build more socially rented council housing


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 3, 2017)

yeh, I was pleasently surprised by that Corbyn vid


----------



## newbie (Jun 3, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Tories U-turn on plan to build more socially rented council housing



they're playing a blinder at the moment




the more of this _hammer the poor help the rich_ they push the better, tmm.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 3, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Some right bellends asking questions on QT


Yeh emboldened by the dimblebore


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Apologies if this has already been posted, though I don't think it has, I certainly haven't seen it... but this advert is really good and very powerful.
> 
> 
> 
> Really good, populist stuff.



Interesting pivot from both parties this morning...
Tories: actually, fuck the poor
Labour: Marx is my homeboy


----------



## JimW (Jun 3, 2017)

"full fruits of our labour", there's a blast from the past.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2017)

JimW said:


> "full fruits of our labour", there's a blast from the past.


ennit, by hand or by brain


----------



## JimW (Jun 3, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> ennit, by hand or by brain


And doctors do recommend more fruit


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 3, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Apologies if this has already been posted, though I don't think it has, I certainly haven't seen it... but this advert is really good and very powerful.
> 
> 
> 
> Really good, populist stuff.



That is excellent.


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2017)

John harris' latest is interesting.

Corbyn shows there’s a new way of doing politics. Straight talking is back | John Harris


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 3, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Apologies if this has already been posted, though I don't think it has, I certainly haven't seen it... but this advert is really good and very powerful.
> 
> 
> 
> Really good, populist stuff.



Best film Loach has done for an age. But yeah it's really, really good.


----------



## Ole (Jun 3, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Apologies if this has already been posted, though I don't think it has, I certainly haven't seen it... but this advert is really good and very powerful.
> 
> 
> 
> Really good, populist stuff.



Blew me away this.

"We have one, short, precious life. We demand a chance to be all that we can."

Bravo.


----------



## newbie (Jun 3, 2017)

Not sure who the target audience is.  Personally i prefer this one


----------



## YouSir (Jun 3, 2017)

newbie said:


> Not sure who the target audience is.  Personally i prefer this one




Whether that guy's any good or not I can't judge, he always annoys me to the point where I can't watch anything with him in it. Prefer the Ken Loach one.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 3, 2017)

I'm not always his biggest fan, but I quite like that


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Whether that guy's any good or not I can't judge, he always annoys me to the point where I can't watch anything with him in it. Prefer the Ken Loach one.


He's shit and annoying. Dunno why he gets so many views.


----------



## killer b (Jun 3, 2017)

He's usually shit and annoying, but that magic money tree rant is nailed on.


----------



## Cid (Jun 3, 2017)

Yeah, he annoys the shit out of me but that line '...where you gonna find the money? like they don't know, you've got it all you greedy bastards' pretty much sums it up.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 3, 2017)

> May was also asked whether she was insulting the public’s intelligence “with stupid slogans?” “I’ve been running a campaign which has been setting out the very clear choice the British people have and the very real challenges the government faces over the next five years,” she said. “It’s an important of change for our country, that choice is between a strong and stable leadership… or Jeremy Corbyn and a coalition of chaos.”



And you can stick that up your magic money tree!


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 3, 2017)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 3, 2017)

Cid said:


> Yeah, he annoys the shit out of me but that line '...where you gonna find the money? like they don't know, you've got it all you greedy bastards' pretty much sums it up.


Yeah, that's the one where I thought "yeah, ok, I like this"


----------



## teqniq (Jun 3, 2017)

A left-wing coalition would be good for the pound, says JPMorgan


----------



## tim (Jun 3, 2017)

The Tories couldn't find a minister to do an interview for the election for Moneybox. A programme targeted at older folk with a little spare cash. They had to make do with a nonentity standing for election. He didn't do very well, presumably thereby pissing off their core voters


----------



## Corax (Jun 3, 2017)

Whilst waiting in the barbers today I picked up a copy of the Mail that had been left there.  What they described about last night's QT was so far from reality it was just absurd.







WTAF.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 3, 2017)

Corax said:


> Whilst waiting in the barbers today I picked up a copy of the Mail that had been left there.  What they described about last night's QT was so far from reality it was just absurd.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nothing like sun screen for a nuclear blast. Perhaps it's 10²⁰⁰SPF?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2017)

Just been leafleting in city centre in the Black Country with two main constituencies. According to yougov one will go Tory, the other Labour. I get the sense that the Labour vote is very energised, Corbyn is getting people out there who are willing to vote Labour in spite of their dislike for their Labour MP. A handful of people saying they will vote Labour even though they don't agree with what they think is Labour immigration policy. Brexit didn't come up once and this is a v heavy leave area.

Nukes didn't come up either, oddly enough being blown to pieces doesn't seem to be high up on voters' key list of issues.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jun 3, 2017)

That Fail front page is utterly predictable though.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2017)

Labour organisers say they have never had so many volunteers, they are turning people away from phone banks.


----------



## Gerry1time (Jun 3, 2017)

A thought just occurred to me. For a while I've been thinking how different things could have been in this election if the bigger name labour MPs had actually got involved in the election campaign, but I'd been thinking things would have been different better. Maybe the fact these people have stayed away from the campaign has been part of what has helped with the positive shift in the polls. I know not seeing Yvette Cooper on telly anywhere has kept my blood pressure lower for starters.


----------



## agricola (Jun 3, 2017)

Gerry1time said:


> A thought just occurred to me. For a while I've been thinking how different things could have been in this election if the bigger name labour MPs had actually got involved in the election campaign, but I'd been thinking things would have been different better. Maybe the fact these people have stayed away from the campaign has been part of what has helped with the positive shift in the polls. I know not seeing Yvette Cooper on telly anywhere has kept my blood pressure lower for starters.



It has helped massively.  The Tories have attacked Corbyn directly, the PLP have stepped aside to let him "own" the defeat, and the end result is that Labour doesn't appear divided any more.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 3, 2017)

agricola said:


> It has helped massively.  The Tories have attacked Corbyn directly, the PLP have stepped aside to let him "own" the defeat, and the end result is that Labour doesn't appear divided any more.


Twats to the right of him, twats to the further right of him.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 3, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> And you can stick that up your magic money tree!



Where's that from


----------



## magneze (Jun 3, 2017)

I really hope that Labour come back with "It's in the Cayman Islands" next time the Tories come out with that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2017)

magneze said:


> I really hope that Labour come back with "It's in the Cayman Islands" next time the Tories come out with that.


Panamanian banks for added diss


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Where's that from


----------



## magneze (Jun 3, 2017)

^ That's awesome


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2017)

Jeremy Corbyn Could See Late Surge In Support From Ex-UKIP Voters, HuffPost UK-Edelman Focus Group Finds | HuffPost UK



> Jeremy Corbyn could enjoy a late surge in support from ex-UKIP voters, the latest HuffPost UK-Edelman general election focus group has found.
> 
> Former supporters of Nigel Farage in Folkestone, Kent, said they felt ‘let down’ by his decision to stand down immediately after the EU referendum and none of them plan to back UKIP at the polling station next week.
> 
> ...


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 3, 2017)

This means they'll all vote Tory btw:

"The majority of the two groups, made up of six men and nine women aged between 35 and 74 and commissioned by the New Economics Foundation think tank, said they would probably back Theresa May. Those who would consider voting Labour said they were not 100% sure and four were still undecided."


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2017)

http://hopenothate.org.uk/2017/06/03/young-people-think-election/



> Nearly two-thirds of young people say that they are certain to vote in Thursday’s General Election, which, if it happens, could see them play a decisive role in many marginal seats and thus, in the final outcome. Of those who are registered and say they are certain to vote, two-thirds (68%) plan to back Labour.
> 
> That’s according to an exclusive ICM poll commissioned by HOPE not hate and supported by the National Union of Teachers (NUT).
> 
> If the turnout is anywhere near the 63% of young people who said that they were “certain” to vote, then this represents a major increase on the 43% who voted in the 2015 General Election.


----------



## Ole (Jun 3, 2017)

J Ed said:


> http://hopenothate.org.uk/2017/06/03/young-people-think-election/


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 3, 2017)

_many were still concerned by his failure to sing the national anthem at a Battle of Britain memorial service in 2015._

Finally, we're getting down to the real issues.


----------



## crossthebreeze (Jun 3, 2017)

Cid said:


> Yeah, he annoys the shit out of me but that line '...where you gonna find the money? like they don't know, you've got it all you greedy bastards' pretty much sums it up.


I just wish he wasn't complaining in it about police stations being shut down along with community centres, libraries, and fire stations!


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 3, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Just been leafleting in city centre in the Black Country with two main constituencies. According to yougov one will go Tory, the other Labour. I get the sense that the Labour vote is very energised, Corbyn is getting people out there who are willing to vote Labour in spite of their dislike for their Labour MP. A handful of people saying they will vote Labour even though they don't agree with what they think is Labour immigration policy. Brexit didn't come up once and this is a v heavy leave area.
> 
> Nukes didn't come up either, oddly enough being blown to pieces doesn't seem to be high up on voters' key list of issues.


Leafleting with who and why?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Leafleting with who and why?


 
Mostly Unite members and Momentum members, to get a Labour gov elected. I can see why people might object to that, and I might well come to regret it but it feels like the right thing to do to me.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 3, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> _many were still concerned by his failure to sing the national anthem at a Battle of Britain memorial service in 2015._
> 
> Finally, we're getting down to the real issues.


Won#t sing, won't nuke, what _will _he do?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 3, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Won#t sing, won't nuke, what _will _he do?



He's done up his tie at least. Disco Dave will be pleased.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 3, 2017)

So he won't sing the national theme song, he won't nuke them muslims, but he's a terrorist and he'll lock people like Toby Young up.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 3, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> he won't nuke them muslims



No, it's them Koreans the wise folk of NYorks are after nuking.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 3, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> No, it's them Koreans the wise folk of NYorks are after nuking.


And the Iranians for having imaginary bombs


----------



## mauvais (Jun 3, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> And the Iranians for having imaginary bombs


I don't suppose anyone is questioning Corbs as to whether he'd press the big red 'deploy SCADA malware' button. Shame.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 3, 2017)

What really galls me about the Apocalpyse 9 on that "debate" thing last night, along with the too-large demographic they represent, is that they often have had the best end of deals via both social democracy (NHS, free education for them and / or their sprogs, welfare state, ok pension plans etc.) and capitalism (cheap imports, inflated housing prices, legacy of imperial advantage) on top of the relative stability of EU which contains much of both traditions

And yet they moan and blame, blame and moan.

I am not qualified to therapise, still less from a distance, but I suspect that these deranged death-obsessives have missed out on a conscious appreciation of some of the deeper, more rewarding and miraculous qualities of life. 

Perhaps they should try mindfulness or something. Imagine having such a rare opportunity to quiz a major party leader and just repeating what several have already said, nothing about the issues facing everyday folk country - just whether we should kill 10s of millions of people in a hypothetical situation. It's like a collective breakdown or something, a decades long slow outbreak of Cuntitis.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 3, 2017)

What an odd post.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 3, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> What really galls me about the Apocalpyse 9 on that "debate" thing last night, along with the too-large demographic they represent, is that they often have had the best end of deals via both social democracy (NHS, free education for them and / or their sprogs, welfare state, ok pension plans etc.) and capitalism (cheap imports, inflated housing prices, legacy of imperial advantage) on top of the relative stability of EU which contains much of both traditions
> 
> And yet they moan and blame, blame and moan.
> 
> ...



Mindfulness is crap, the actual answer here is obviously that they need to be recruited to Proletarian Democracy where their latent Posadism can be used for good.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Mindfulness is crap, the actual answer here is obviously that they need to be recruited to Proletarian Democracy where their latent Posadism can be used for good.


I've said this before, but I've tried reading up on mindfulness after so many people telling me it works. I can never understand what the fuck the books are on about. They seem to be either not saying anything or describing something so obvious that I assume it doesn't need saying.

One book went on and on about absolutely nothing and even had an anecdote about the author dropping money down the toilet. Which was an obvious enough metophor for me to stop reading it. 

I've decided to believe that I naturally do mindfulness all the time and that's why I don't know what the books are saying.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jun 3, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> What an odd post.



It's not odd, it's quite right (the last paragraph being very obviously sarcastic).


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jun 3, 2017)

The last TWO, even


----------



## bmd (Jun 3, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I've said this before, but I've tried reading up on mindfulness after so many people telling me it works. I can never understand what the fuck the books are on about. They seem to be either not saying anything or describing something so obvious that I assume it doesn't need saying.
> 
> One book went on and on about absolutely nothing and even had an anecdote about the author dropping money down the toilet. Which was an obvious enough metophor for me to stop reading it.
> 
> I've decided to believe that I naturally do mindfulness all the time and that's why I don't know what the books are saying.



I went on and on about it to my daughter. She got me The Ladybird Book of Mindfulness that Christmas. Needless to say I took the hint.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jun 3, 2017)

My mate got me The Ladybird Book of Hangovers.


----------



## JimW (Jun 3, 2017)




----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 3, 2017)

Posted by a friend on facebook. Has anyone seen similar done for other candidates? Could be quite effective, although the smoking one might not win everybody over.


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jun 3, 2017)

What I _keep_ wondering about is the impact of social media on people's politics, how it informs them, but also whether people are just more likely to vote, too (I'd start a thread but I'm not brave enough).
Does it matter if people _watched_ QT when they will inevitably have chunks of it fed back to them?

I go out for a fag at work and it's really _normal_ for people to be discussing politics now.
There are defo people who just suck up stuff on FB which bolsters their own viewpoint (Tories!  ) but there's also loads of other conversations going on where smaller snippets from FB have clearly informed people who I don't reckon would've been that interested before.

It's really normal for people *here* to look for debate and discussion - and lots of those will have been led here in the first place by it being a comfortable (heh), informative place to do that - but it doesn't mean that everyone else isn't catching up, either.

I started my job 5 years ago and there has definitely been a huge uptake in the numbers of my workmates using the internet, just in that time - and probs 80% of those are completely gripped by social media/using it as their main news source, now.

I don't know if/how any of the polls can account for that (but maybe they do and I'm being a moron).


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2017)

Holy fuck, my subjegation to youtube tory ads has increased a lot in the last 2 days (I don't run ad-block). Am worried about the effect they may have on some people. I don't watch beyond the 5 sec skip, but daresay they are pretty well thunk out and road-tested by the propagandameiseters. Obviously the scum have buckets of money for this stuff and can just lie about it in regards to declarations. 

I never thought I'd miss the plethora of internet lifestyle entrepreneurs speaking to be from a coracle just off the coast of Mauritius.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 4, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> View attachment 108404
> 
> Posted by a friend on facebook. Has anyone seen similar done for other candidates? Could be quite effective, although the smoking one might not win everybody over.


I wish to god people like him would get voted out, but it won't happen. Too many scumbags get something from wankers like him being in power


----------



## kabbes (Jun 4, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I've said this before, but I've tried reading up on mindfulness after so many people telling me it works. I can never understand what the fuck the books are on about. They seem to be either not saying anything or describing something so obvious that I assume it doesn't need saying.
> 
> One book went on and on about absolutely nothing and even had an anecdote about the author dropping money down the toilet. Which was an obvious enough metophor for me to stop reading it.
> 
> I've decided to believe that I naturally do mindfulness all the time and that's why I don't know what the books are saying.


If you are mentally healthy, it is easy to take for granted the mechanisms that keep you that way.  But if you are not, you need tools to be able to deal with it.  A common manifestation of anxiety is when your mind races, rushing through negative thoughts and overwhelming you.  Mindfulness as a tool is a useful way of alleviating that.  It has proved incredibly successful in this regard, so I wouldn't be too dismissive of it.  If you're not careful, such dismissiveness comes across as a kind of smug superiority over those who aren't so fortunate as you as to not have to deliberately work hard to achieve what you take for granted.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 4, 2017)

If somebody can point me to a mindfulness book that actually says something, I'll be happy to revise my opinion.


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 4, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> If somebody can point me to a mindfulness book that actually says something, I'll be happy to revise my opinion.



Have you never found some words useful that other people have regarded as 'stating the obvious'


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 4, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Have you never found some words useful that other people have regarded as 'stating the obvious'


Not that I can remember.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 4, 2017)

I'm going to start a separate thread, btw.  Not because I need to discuss this, but so that it doesn't disrupt this one.

ETA: link https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/mindfulness.352588/


----------



## chilango (Jun 4, 2017)

Heard somebody* (quite seriously) describe the proposed nationalisation of utilities as "like what the Nazis did to the Jews when they seized their property".


*my mother


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 4, 2017)

Does the suspension of campaigning again mean an end to Tory ads on Facebook/YouTube/web pages? Otherwise it's just a cynical move knowing that Labour is much more dependent on traditional campaigning and hasn't got the cash to do the same volume of internet stuff.


----------



## killer b (Jun 4, 2017)

Of course not. They'll be ramping up the corbo/Hamas one in fact.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 4, 2017)

chilango said:


> Heard somebody* (quite seriously) describe the proposed nationalisation of utilities as "like what the Nazis did to the Jews when they seized their property".
> 
> 
> *my mother


Show her Germa Bel's work on Nazi privatisation (seriously).


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 4, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Show her Germa Bel's work on Nazi privatisation (seriously).


this?
http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 4, 2017)

perusing social media this morning I've had a gander at acquaintances who are partial to a bit of right-wing hyperbole at times like these. They have posts lamenting the 'pc-brigade' calls for internment, expulsion of suspects from the country etc, but then, slightly to my surprise - turned to criticising foreign policy, support for Saudi Arabia, stressing things had to chance and they would vote Corbyn. Only anecdotal, and next to useless, but I wouldn't have expected these people to be voting Labour - (I know in the last election 1 voted Tory and 1 UKIP)


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 4, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> this?
> http://www.ub.edu/graap/nazi.pdf


That's the one!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 4, 2017)

chilango said:


> Heard somebody* (quite seriously) describe the proposed nationalisation of utilities as "like what the Nazis did to the Jews when they seized their property".
> 
> 
> *my mother


FFS. 

My mother has her own ideosyncracies. (In her case, late oneset homophobia. This from someone who was a socially liberal socialist and feminist in my youth).


----------



## Wilf (Jun 4, 2017)

Don't know whether I'm being as inappropriate as her in posting this, but Theresa May has just said there is *“far too much tolerance of extremism in our country”.  *It would be so crass to turn this into point scoring against Corbyn/positioning herself as the only way forward, so fucking terrible, that I'm being charitable and thinking she isn't really doing that. Am I being overly charitable?


----------



## existentialist (Jun 4, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Don't know whether I'm being as inappropriate as her in posting this, but Theresa May has just said there is *“far too much tolerance of extremism in our country”.  *It would be so crass to turn this into point scoring against Corbyn/positioning herself as the only way forward, so fucking terrible, that I'm being charitable and thinking she isn't really doing that. Am I being overly charitable?


Yep, you're being overly charitable. I suspect that the Tories are (internally) justifiying pretty much anything in view of their slide in popularity during the runup to this election, and I don't think there is a "too low to stoop" from their point of view in terms of trying to capture a public mood.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 4, 2017)

yep - the cunts are weaponising the terror attacks.


----------



## maomao (Jun 4, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> FFS.
> 
> My mother has her own ideosyncracies. (In her case, late oneset homophobia. This from someone who was a socially liberal socialist and feminist in my youth).





Wilf said:


> Don't know whether I'm being as inappropriate as her in posting this, but Theresa May has just said there is *“far too much tolerance of extremism in our country”.  *It would be so crass to turn this into point scoring against Corbyn/positioning herself as the only way forward, so fucking terrible, that I'm being charitable and thinking she isn't really doing that. Am I being overly charitable?


Tories won't see it as stooping low. They really believe they're protecting the country from dangerous communists.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 4, 2017)

In terms of policy though is there any real difference between the two parties on what you might broadly call "national security"? 

Obviously Corbyn's made his foreign policy pitch and it seems to have been pretty popular and not the horrific, controversial bombshell that the Tory press thought it would be. 

No doubt they'll play up Corbyn's alleged softness on terrorism in social media and on doorsteps even if their big names stay away from the subject as "distasteful" so soon after an attack. 

But what about police spending? 

Mmm. I dunno. I dunno if it's even right to be discussing it. . . ? 

I saw an American commentator refer to Labour voters - like my good self - as acting in a mood of nihilism! 

UKIP will benefit I suspect, though how that plays in to the main party battle who knows. . .


----------



## killer b (Jun 4, 2017)

UKIP are dead, they won't benefit. Difficult to say at this point who will... all sides will go in hard tho. They have to.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 4, 2017)

maomao said:


> Tories won't see it as stooping low. They really believe they're protecting the country from dangerous communists.



Some of the really pigshit-thick ones and the insane ideologues, maybe. I don't think May is either of those things. If she says it, I'd see it as a calculated move.


----------



## chilango (Jun 4, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> FFS.
> 
> My mother has her own ideosyncracies. (In her case, late oneset homophobia. This from someone who was a socially liberal socialist and feminist in my youth).



Worse, my mother was a Liberal Party activist/candidate in the 70s, but left because they've gone "too far left" as the Lib Dems


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2017)

chilango said:


> Worse, my mother was a Liberal Party activist/candidate in the 70s, but left because they've gone "too far left" as the Lib Dems


(((((chilango))))) the shame must be almost too much to bear


----------



## Cid (Jun 4, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> In terms of policy though is there any real difference between the two parties on what you might broadly call "national security"?



I don't think Labour is advocating the imposition of a er... Maydrian's firewall.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 4, 2017)

There's a real possibility May's bullshit speech today is going to backfire. Fingers crossed. If I was Corbyn et al I'd go in hard on it


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 4, 2017)

I had a quick look and Labour's main proposal is a review of the Prevent strategy. The 10,000 more police officers will look good and I expect they'll mention it a lot this week. 

May's been Home Sec for years - she's been directly in charge of anti-terror policy even before she became PM. (And, I hate to say it but I'm kinda quoting Nigel Farage there!)


----------



## maomao (Jun 4, 2017)

chilango said:


> Worse, my mother was a Liberal Party activist/candidate in the 70s, but left because they've gone "too far left" as the Lib Dems


I was brought up in the SWP. I get jealous of people with nice straightforwardly right wing parents. My family have arguments about things like whether giving a child's leprechaun doll is racist or not


----------



## Cid (Jun 4, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> I had a quick look and Labour's main proposal is a review of the Prevent strategy. The 10,000 more police officers will look good and I expect they'll mention it a lot this week.
> 
> May's been Home Sec for years - she's been directly in charge of anti-terror policy even before she became PM. (And, I hate to say it but I'm kinda quoting Nigel Farage there!)



She was the longest serving home sec for 60 years... 2010-2016 (after which she became PM of course).


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2017)

#Saudiarabia trending on twitter at fucking last.


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 4, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> #Saudiarabia trending on twitter at fucking last.



You know default twitter trends are personally tailored based on who you follow and what you search for?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> You know default twitter trends are personally tailored based on who you follow and what you search for?



Oh fuck. Well I aint searched for it, and even those I follow (yes, mostly comms/anarchs/socialists/liberals) haven't banged on about this before.

It needs to be the number one issue this week for the sake of our security. There's far more to it than Saudi, but I think it's the obvious starting point.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2017)

Please sign and share. Enough is enough.
CAAT - Act Now - Stop Arming Saudi Arabia


----------



## magneze (Jun 4, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> I had a quick look and Labour's main proposal is a review of the Prevent strategy. The 10,000 more police officers will look good and I expect they'll mention it a lot this week.
> 
> May's been Home Sec for years - she's been directly in charge of anti-terror policy even before she became PM. (And, I hate to say it but I'm kinda quoting Nigel Farage there!)


I can't see how the Tories can say that Corbyn isn't going to protect the country. This is the third attack under May's watch, she's hardly keeping it safe is she?


----------



## agricola (Jun 4, 2017)

magneze said:


> I can't see how the Tories can say that Corbyn isn't going to protect the country. This is the third attack under May's watch, she's hardly keeping it safe is she?



Yes, but he wouldn't nuke Iran.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 4, 2017)

They'll link it with immigration and free movement of people in the Brexit negotiations.


----------



## killer b (Jun 4, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> #Saudiarabia trending on twitter at fucking last.


At last!


----------



## bemused (Jun 4, 2017)

magneze said:


> I can't see how the Tories can say that Corbyn isn't going to protect the country. This is the third attack under May's watch, she's hardly keeping it safe is she?



Security is Corbyn's biggest weakness. Any question about the use of force he can't give a straght anwer. Whilst being a pasfist is a perfectly respectable position to hold I think people would be a bit silly if they didn't recognise that when discussing national security you have to be prepared to say you would authorise deadly force.  Jeremy as of yet hasn't done that.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2017)

bemused said:


> Security is Corbyn's biggest weakness.



True, but at least he wasn't Home Sec when LIFG were being allowed to carry out massacres by MI5.

May can so easily and legitimately be "swift boated" on this one.


----------



## chilango (Jun 4, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> (((((chilango))))) the shame must be almost too much to bear



I think the shame is mutual


----------



## DownwardDog (Jun 4, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> #Saudiarabia trending on twitter at fucking last.



The marble halls of Riyadh's palaces ring with screams of panic.


----------



## chilango (Jun 4, 2017)

maomao said:


> I was brought up in the SWP. I get jealous of people with nice straightforwardly right wing parents. My family have arguments about things like whether giving a child's leprechaun doll is racist or not



Worst of both worlds having a Liberal. No war toys as kid coupled with free market fundamentalism at the dinner table.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 4, 2017)

DownwardDog said:


> The marble halls of Riyadh's palaces ring with screams of panic.



It's a bit more complicated than 'Saudis are bad, more police are good' I suspect.

Nonetheless, I think the government should be challenged on a number of security issues, given who was Home Secretary for the last half-decade and given the actions of successive governments including those of Cameron/May in turning a large part of the Middle East into a very large Jihadi LARP zone etc.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 4, 2017)

maomao said:


> I was brought up in the SWP. I get jealous of people with nice straightforwardly right wing parents. My family have arguments about things like whether giving a child's leprechaun doll is racist or not


I'm of Irish descent, so I can tell them "no" if you want.


----------



## maomao (Jun 4, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm of Irish descent, so I can tell them "no" if you want.


Even my mum (also of Irish decent) knew that one was bullshit.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2017)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


>


they're not so happy to have her there, from their expressions


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 4, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> they're not so happy to have her there, from their expressions



Cos she's a 'bloody difficult' woman?


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2017)

Has this been posted before?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 4, 2017)

And there's more...
'Sensitive' UK terror funding inquiry may never be published


----------



## Cid (Jun 4, 2017)

So today:

- May has suggested increased military action in Iraq and Syria but, as Rudd clarifies, obviously not by increasing military action in Iraq and Syria.
- The 'end end-to-end encryption' argument has resurfaced, along with the convenient scapegoating of 'the internet'.
- 'Embarrassing' arguments are to be had. These will presumably be about asking the 'Muslim community' to condemn terrorism. Which 'it' obviously hasn't been doing already, I mean i definitely didn't read about an Imam in Abedi's mosque saying how he 'looked on him with hate' after anti-daesh preaching.
- May taking the opportunity to have a bit of a dig. Y'know, while campaigning is suspended.
- Shh, no-one mention the Saudis.

A lot of saying of 'things must be done' with precisely no content. I hope people see through this, because never has so much bullshit been spewed in so little time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 4, 2017)

Cid said:


> So today:
> 
> - May has suggested increased military action in Iraq and Syria but, as Rudd clarifies, obviously not by increasing military action in Iraq and Syria.
> - The 'end end-to-end encryption' argument has resurfaced, along with the convenient scapegoating of 'the internet'.
> ...


scientists were taken by surprise today when the world bullshit level surged to new heights as a massive crap calved off theresa may.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 4, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> they're not so happy to have her there, from their expressions


they must feel a bit grubby after buying arms from their dealer - a bit like one must feel after buying crack


----------



## bemused (Jun 4, 2017)

I have some symphaty with the governments frustration how social media companies seem to work. If the police can get a warrent for your financial records from a UK bank, they should be able to get your social media data through the same process.

I'm not sure ending end to end encryption is viable.


----------



## gosub (Jun 4, 2017)

.@jonkarl: Some discussion at White House of possible London trip later in  week to show solidarity after attacks 7 killed, 3 suspects dead after 'brutal terrorist attack' in London Evan McMurry on Twitter     LOL


----------



## newbie (Jun 4, 2017)

one of the most watched on the BBC news website is "Corbyn opposes 'shoot to kill'". It's from last November, but that's a minor detail.


.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 4, 2017)

magneze said:


> I can't see how the Tories can say that Corbyn isn't going to protect the country. This is the third attack under May's watch, she's hardly keeping it safe is she?


I think the general assumption/perception is that as bad as she is, he'd be worse. He'd be weaker, softer, take less action, that sort of thing.


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2017)

Corbyn didnt bottle mentioning Saudi Arabia.



> He also returned to his comments on terror links to foreign policy, adding: "We do need to have some difficult conversations starting with Saudi Arabia and other Gulf states that have funded and fuelled extremist ideology."



(brom bbc live updates page Latest updates: London attack - BBC News )


----------



## mojo pixy (Jun 4, 2017)

Edie said:


> Yeah but he grew up with a single Mum. He wasn't talking Preston down, he's a very proud northerner, he was talking from experience of having been brought up with fuck all money in the 80s. Of the three leaders, he's the only working class one.



Regardless of where he grew up socio-economically, now that he's the leader of a major political party he's not working class. Working class is _not_ an identity. Nobody in Tim Farron's position can be working class.


----------



## chandlerp (Jun 4, 2017)

There is not a chance in hell that Trump will be allowed to visit the UK in election week.  FFS, it's going to be hard enough supplying security for the election as it is.  The orange turd should be told, "Fuck off, it is not all about you and your desire to deflect from Comey's testimony you twat"


----------



## J Ed (Jun 4, 2017)




----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2017)

So far the BBC have left out the bit about the suppressing of the foreign funding report.

eg London attack: Corbyn criticises Tories in terror speech - BBC News


----------



## gosub (Jun 4, 2017)

chandlerp said:


> There is not a chance in hell that Trump will be allowed to visit the UK in election week.  FFS, it's going to be hard enough supplying security for the election as it is.  The orange turd should be told, "Fuck off, it is not all about you and your desire to deflect from Comey's testimony you twat"



I think when Teresa had calmed down after she was told, she would be slightly more tactful than that


----------



## J Ed (Jun 4, 2017)

elbows said:


> So far the BBC have left out the bit about the suppressing of the foreign funding report.
> 
> eg London attack: Corbyn criticises Tories in terror speech - BBC News



Cunts


----------



## Cid (Jun 4, 2017)

That article says:

"He accused the government of "suppressing" a report into the foreign funding of extremist groups."


----------



## Cid (Jun 4, 2017)

Though admittedly it does make it sound as if they're not actually 'suppressing' it.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 4, 2017)

elbows said:


> So far the BBC have left out the bit about the suppressing of the foreign funding report.
> 
> eg London attack: Corbyn criticises Tories in terror speech - BBC News



Pravda with a public school accent.


----------



## agricola (Jun 4, 2017)

I see that shoot-to-kill Kuenssberg piece* is doing the rounds on Facebook.  

* the 30-second clip specifically, not the whole interview where he basically says that what happened last night is what the response should be


----------



## elbows (Jun 4, 2017)

Cid said:


> That article says:
> 
> "He accused the government of "suppressing" a report into the foreign funding of extremist groups."



It didnt say that when I made my comment - they expanded the article quite a lot later on.


----------



## Bakunin (Jun 4, 2017)




----------



## emanymton (Jun 4, 2017)

Bakunin said:


>


FFS put that in a spoiler.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 5, 2017)

:{

Please share this


----------



## Libertad (Jun 5, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> :{
> 
> Please share this




Sheryll Murray, she has form for her odious views. Her name is on the list already.


----------



## chilango (Jun 5, 2017)

More news from behind enemy lines...

A couple I know, 100% Tory voters. Vocally anti-Corbyn for months now. Aspirational high earners with a young family, portfolio of shares, managerial types.

Both are now saying that they can't stand May

One is now likely to vote Labour purely because of the Dementia Tax.

The other is wobbling, badly.

These are shoe-in Tory base votes that are being lost.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Pravda with a public school accent.


Prevda


----------



## strung out (Jun 5, 2017)

More anecdotal evidence from my own family:

My dad is a lifelong one nation Tory, his idea of a protest vote is spoiling or voting Lib Dem, but he's considering voting Labour
My brother (JTG) has self-confessed anarchist tendencies but is voting Labour
My older sister has only ever voted Lib Dem but is voting Labour
My younger sister has only ever voted Green or Lib Dem but is voting Labour
I've generally voted Labour in the past but only while holding my nose and am doing so enthusiastically this year

The only lifelong labour voter/supporter in my family is my oldest brother and you've guessed it, is also the only person in my family who has declared that he can't vote Labour, all because he doesn't like Corbyn. Fortunately he's in Tunbridge Wells, so no hope of his vote making the difference anyway.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2017)

strung out said:


> More anecdotal evidence from my own family:
> 
> My dad is a lifelong one nation Tory, his idea of a protest vote is spoiling or voting Lib Dem, but he's considering voting Labour
> My brother (JTG) has self-confessed anarchist tendencies but is voting Labour
> ...


So he *is* "disgusted of tunbridge wells"


----------



## Cid (Jun 5, 2017)

strung out said:


> More anecdotal evidence from my own family:
> 
> My dad is a lifelong one nation Tory, his idea of a protest vote is spoiling or voting Lib Dem, but he's considering voting Labour
> My brother (JTG) has self-confessed anarchist tendencies but is voting Labour
> ...



Didn't know you were JTG's brother... Well maybe, but in that vaguely recalled way.

I get the same impression from my family, and a couple of acquaintances - labour loyalists through the Blair years 'can't vote Corbyn'. They have tried a few explanations, but I think it really just comes down to pure spite, especially since the manifesto release. Difficult to put numbers to them though... They might end up being significant in the m/c labour areas though I suppose; Hampstead and Kilburn has a pretty slim Labour majority for example.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 5, 2017)

My dad and all his side of the family have voted Labour - this is as much a surprise as the sun setting each night as amoungst that side of the family we have 2 former Labour councillors, 5  current or former union reps and even more Labour party members. They are largely very enthusiastic about the leftward turn.

My sister is a doctor so has voted Labour 

My mother is the interesting one. Voted Labour in 97, has an awful tendency to vote Lib Dem - definetly in 2010 - (and I even suspect she may have voted Tory in the past!) voted Labour, helped by the local candidate being a personable nurse


----------



## chilango (Jun 5, 2017)

...more 3rd hand tales being relayed to me this morning of solid Tory voters in the shires turning against May.


----------



## killer b (Jun 5, 2017)

here is a tory turning against May...

Theresa May is 'responsible' for London terror attack and must resign says top David Cameron aide


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 5, 2017)

Would be interesting to see voting intentions of old bill this election


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2017)

chilango said:


> ...more 3rd hand tales being relayed to me this morning of solid Tory voters in the shires turning against May.


let us know when you hear 'a friend of friend of a friend of a friend' is going from tory to labour


----------



## chilango (Jun 5, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> let us know when you hear 'a friend of friend of a friend of a friend' is going from tory to labour



i just did


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 5, 2017)

Staying with my Brother and Sister in law this week, convinced them both to vote for the first time and to vote Labour.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2017)

chilango said:


> i just did


 i missed out one 'of a friend'


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 5, 2017)

Well I said Corbyn should be bold and lay into May over foreign policy and security. Certainly going to get headlines!


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 5, 2017)

Interesting to see how it'll go down if he keeps pressing the point about UK govt funding terror groups abroad via the foreign govts that support them and the arms trade. Might win him some support from the type of person who complains about the size of the foreign aid budget (whether he wants their help is another matter, I'm just thinking it's a constituency he might not have convinced on other fronts but might do so on this one...)


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 5, 2017)

Does blaming TM over police cuts make much sense in this case, though? Given that they had these guys shot within 8 minutes of receiving the emergency call, it's hard to argue they botched it this time...


----------



## killer b (Jun 5, 2017)

He does seem to have seized the initiative on this doesn't he? The Today programme this morning was wall to wall police cuts / Saudi terror funding, hardly anything else got a look in.

I see he's just called for May to resign lol.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 5, 2017)

Any stick to beat a mangy cur


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 5, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Does blaming TM over police cuts make much sense in this case, though? Given that they had these guys shot within 8 minutes of receiving the emergency call, it's hard to argue they botched it this time...


Yes, it does. The police cuts have led to fewer resources in investigating potential future suspects. There have been reports that a friend of one of the suspects called a hotline to report their concerns about him and this possibly wasn't followed up


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 5, 2017)

killer b said:


> I see he's just called for May to resign lol.






			
				The Guardian said:
			
		

> calling for a serving prime minister to resign three days before polling day may not seem particularly realistic and when he was asked about May resigning for a second time, Corbyn said the election might be a better way of removing her. He said:
> 
> "We’ve got an election on Thursday and that’s perhaps the best opportunity to deal with it."



lol again


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 5, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Interesting to see how it'll go down if he keeps pressing the point about UK govt funding terror groups abroad via the foreign govts that support them and the arms trade. Might win him some support from the type of person who complains about the size of the foreign aid budget (whether he wants their help is another matter, I'm just thinking it's a constituency he might not have convinced on other fronts but might do so on this one...)


may can fuck off , police cuts when she was in the home office, just fuck off


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 5, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Yes, it does. The police cuts have led to less resources in investigating potential future suspects. There have been reports that a friend of one of the suspects called a hotline to report their concerns about him and this possibly wasn't followed up



Yes, fair enough. I was thinking more in terms of how it's portrayed/perceived than the behind the scenes stuff of what the police haven't got the resources to do. The superficial image of the police handling this one fairly well despite the cuts seemed to be something that could be potentially harnessed to argue the opposite.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 5, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> may can fuck off , police cuts when she was in the home office, just fuck off



Indeed she can. I think you meant to quote my other post though. 

In case it needed saying (cos I can't tell if your second fuck off is directed at May or me!) I'm certainly not saying _I_ think things _are_ fine despite the cuts. Just speculating on how making an explicit link between the latest incident and the cuts will be received in general.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 5, 2017)

It'll be 'corbyn talking down our police heroes' won't it? 'He says they're not up to the job'.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 5, 2017)

Yes it was at the other post , and also not at you , was telling may to fuck off


----------



## J Ed (Jun 5, 2017)

Yes Corbyn, this is brilliant. Asking her to resign is genius.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 5, 2017)

Lock her up next


----------



## ska invita (Jun 5, 2017)

chilango said:


> More news from behind enemy lines...
> 
> A couple I know, 100% Tory voters. Vocally anti-Corbyn for months now. Aspirational high earners with a young family, portfolio of shares, managerial types.
> 
> ...


For me the most interesting bits of reading this election have come from first time Labour canvasser friends on facebook...This post from one yesterday really tallies with what you posted:

"Spent my third weekend door knocking Croydon Central, national campaigning and central London constituencies were suspended today but not anywhere else. The response in this close marginal has been very weird and very encouraging. We spoke to many white-haired retired middle class Tories, and what they have to say about Corbyn is virtually unanimous: he’s decent and they trust him even where they aren’t switching sides. Some however are converting to Labour. The diehards that aren’t very often say how much they respect Corbyn, not Labour but Corbyn because of his performance on TV. Even in Momentum we have always tried to make the case for politics not personalities, turns out the figure of Jeremy Corbyn was our best selling point all along. 

An elderly couple today told me they had always voted Conservative but that the dementia tax and Corbyn’s TV appearances had turned their vote to Labour, another Tory told me he wasn’t voting for Theresa May because she was so obviously not fit for purpose and although he wouldn’t vote Labour he was impressed by Corbyn and his obvious sincerity. An elderly Tory told me three weeks ago, before the media had given Corbyn a real platform and before the dementia tax, that he was going to vote for Labour because of the railways. 

The Labour right (who have been invisible in this election) have told us time and time again that we must move to the center (a euphemism for accepting the construct of austerity) in order to appeal to Tory voters and that has turned out to be wrong. If we stick to the politics of nationalisation and national investment, even natural conservative voters will potentially switch their vote. We could still lose this election for a lot of reasons by a fairly big margin but the argument that Corbyn and left policies are off putting is a dead argument."


----------



## agricola (Jun 5, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Yes, fair enough. I was thinking more in terms of how it's portrayed/perceived than the behind the scenes stuff of what the police haven't got the resources to do. The superficial image of the police handling this one fairly *well despite the cuts seemed to be something that could be potentially harnessed to argue the opposite*.



They could try and do that, but its an argument that would be easily destroyed (if not turned entirely against them) because of the specific circumstances and timing of this attack.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 5, 2017)

Labour have got to attack as hard as they can on security over the next couple of days. I don't see how they can overdo it. If they soft pedal, they are conceding the election.


----------



## chilango (Jun 5, 2017)

ska invita said:


> For me the most interesting bits of reading this election have come from first time Labour canvasser friends on facebook...This post from one yesterday really tallies with what you posted:
> 
> "Spent my third weekend door knocking Croydon Central, national campaigning and central London constituencies were suspended today but not anywhere else. The response in this close marginal has been very weird and very encouraging. We spoke to many white-haired retired middle class Tories, and what they have to say about Corbyn is virtually unanimous: he’s decent and they trust him even where they aren’t switching sides. Some however are converting to Labour. The diehards that aren’t very often say how much they respect Corbyn, not Labour but Corbyn because of his performance on TV. Even in Momentum we have always tried to make the case for politics not personalities, turns out the figure of Jeremy Corbyn was our best selling point all along.
> 
> ...



Yeah. Several Tory voters I've spoken to, who despised/ridiculed Corbyn only days ago, grudgingly admit that he's come across well on TV and this has changed their opinion of him, if not their vote.


----------



## agricola (Jun 5, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Yes, it does. The police cuts have led to fewer resources in investigating potential future suspects. There have been reports that a friend of one of the suspects called a hotline to report their concerns about him and this possibly wasn't followed up



TBH this is a much more complex issue than just police cuts = terrorism.  

The point (which to be fair to him Corbyn did elaborate on in the past) is that whilst they have protected or enhanced anti-terrorism funding, the cuts have fallen disproportionately on the rest of the service that do not fall within that administrative umbrella - even though those bits do play roles in the fight against terrorism anyway (not only in terms of intelligence gathering and neighbourhood contacts, but also in the initial response to attacks (as happened at Leytonstone), visible deterrence patrols etc), and are the bits of the service that people actually use and interact with on a daily basis.   

When you then expand the number of armed officers and boost anti-terrorism units (as Cameron and May did after 2015) without a corresponding increase in recruitment of new officers, the result is to make the impact of the cuts even worse because the "extra" officers and staff almost always come from the rest of the service and are not replaced.   The end result is (at least in London) what we have today - where the Met is in the middle of a process of combining boroughs (indeed one of the pilot sites covers Corbyn's constituency) in order to try and live within the means that the government has dictated.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 5, 2017)

chilango said:


> Yeah. Several Tory voters I've spoken to, who despised/ridiculed Corbyn only days ago, grudgingly admit that he's come across well on TV and this has changed their opinion of him, if not their vote.



When we spend so much time absorbing media that focuses on reductionist arguments, soundbites and cartoonishly oversimplified portrayals of individuals and their motivations, and broadcasts 'debate' programmes that appear to show a public who are just as moronic, it's nice to be reminded that out in the real world many people still have the critical faculties to be able to think nuanced thoughts like this.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 5, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Labour have got to attack as hard as they can on security over the next couple of days. I don't see how they can overdo it. If they soft pedal, they are conceding the election.


It's probably too late to have any effect.  The Tories are traditionally _seen as_ the party of law and order.  If Corbyn wants to overturn that assumption, he's going to need to get that through to a lot of people.  Most of whom aren't following the election.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 5, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> It's probably too late to have any effect.  The Tories are traditionally _seen as_ the party of law and order.  If Corbyn wants to overturn that assumption, he's going to need to get that through to a lot of people.  Most of whom aren't following the election.



It's not too late to have _any _effect. It might be too late to make the crucial difference. So, yes, Corbyn/Labour have to get through to a lot of people, which means hitting in hard.


----------



## frogwoman (Jun 5, 2017)

My mum - Remainer liberal, upset about brexit, has voted mostly lib dem and green, is voting labour 
My dad - has voted mostly lib dem and sometimes tory, is voting labour 
No idea what my sister is voting. Her boyfriend is a lost cause I suspect lol, he voted lib dems in 2015


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 5, 2017)

Raheem said:


> It's not too late to have _any _effect.


 You knew damn well my invisible parenthesis said  "(...on the result)".

Christ it's irritating to come across someone as pedantic as am I.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 5, 2017)

Only anecdotal, but over the weekend I spoke to two solid Libdem types who don't like Corbyn but are voting Labour.


----------



## JimW (Jun 5, 2017)

My dad always votes Labour and will do again even though he doesn't think much of Corbyn (he hated the Blairites even more, just finds Corbyn a bit useless), mum always Labour again, siblings too I expect though not checked.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 5, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Does blaming TM over police cuts make much sense in this case, though? Given that they had these guys shot within 8 minutes of receiving the emergency call, it's hard to argue they botched it this time...



It's partly about mood music. Detail doesn't seem to work so effectively these days, especially when advancing a left-tilted case.

The hard-right get all sorts of propaganda victories out of more spurious stuff than this. It's not ideal, but there's 3 days left and a non level playing field.

People know that all emergency services have been attacked by tories, they know that such services are vital to national security. There's a reasonable link to make there. On top of state encouragement of islamic terror (LIFG) when May was Home Sec, and arming of the extremist Saudis, this deserves to be strongest political issue at the moment. The tories reputation on security can and should be torn to shreds.


----------



## killer b (Jun 5, 2017)

_These days. 
_
When was detail a big vote winner taff?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 5, 2017)

Trump attacking Khan and May needing to be pushed into condemning that. Wow. Another wheel coming off..


----------



## killer b (Jun 5, 2017)

Has she taken any action yet? Every hour that passes without her challenging him marks her out as weaker and shitter - must be worth a few percentage points by itself. I hope he carries on...

Trump accidentally going in to bat for Corbo is hilarious. He better had fly in for a visit - Wednesday would be best.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 5, 2017)

elbows said:


> Corbyn didnt bottle mentioning Saudi Arabia.
> 
> 
> 
> (brom bbc live updates page Latest updates: London attack - BBC News )


If Labour are going to go with this - and I think they should - they should _really_ go for it (particularly the Saudi thing).  Shouldn't be going on about 'difficult conversations', should be going for the jugular on May selling weapons to the very people who are blowing us up.  I realise that's high risk and there's the added problem of being able to link Saudi to specific attacks.  But there's probably a form of words to be had that gets round that but also manages to go for it.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 5, 2017)

killer b said:


> Has she taken any action yet? Every hour that passes without her challenging him marks her out as weaker and shitter - must be worth a few percentage points by itself. I hope he carries on...



Not that I can see.  The usual evasive shit about not being afraid to say if Trump is wrong. She never does though so either she's an outright liar or agrees with Trump.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Not that I can see.  The usual evasive shit about not being afraid to say if Trump is wrong. She never does though so either she's an outright liar or agrees with Trump.


Or both


----------



## Crispy (Jun 5, 2017)

Must be for The Sun's front page for Wednesday or Thursday right?


----------



## mauvais (Jun 5, 2017)

Ideal _Wicker Man_ material, that.


----------



## killer b (Jun 5, 2017)

I wouldn't be surprised to see that in flames tonight...


----------



## agricola (Jun 5, 2017)

killer b said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to see that in flames tonight...



It has disappeared already, apparently.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2017)

mauvais said:


> Ideal _Wicker Man_ material, that.


It's only a proper wicker man if someone's in it. Someone religious, maybe a vicar's child


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 5, 2017)

agricola said:


> It has disappeared already, apparently.



I imagine the tories themselves wanted rid of it as its unbelievably crass, the kind of thing that could lose votes in key seats. Are the communication links between the sun and the tory campaign hq that bad?


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 5, 2017)

Also a temporary structure that big must need planning permission of some sort surely?


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 5, 2017)

Can Labour go for the Saudi thing though? 

Can they say, "we will stop this deal"? "We won't allow any more deals?" 

No government has in the past, have they? And - tragic though it is - defence jobs are a big deal in some constituencies and Tories will play it as protecting jobs. 

I think May will just ignore Trump and call it a "distraction" from the serious job of battling terrorism. 

How that plays with the electorate, who knows? 

If I were running Labour's campaign I'd go more with the police numbers (and other emergency services). I hate to be so cynical, but first responders are the heroes of such events, and have huge public approval in troubled times. Plus it's uncomplicated and would play well in any case - middle east foreign policy and trade policy less so.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 5, 2017)

Crispy said:


> View attachment 108523
> 
> Must be for The Sun's front page for Wednesday or Thursday right?



No, it's the first part of May's brexit strategy. She'll be seen smoking cigars and wearing a boxed bowler on election day.


----------



## agricola (Jun 5, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> Can Labour go for the Saudi thing though?
> 
> Can they say, "we will stop this deal"? "We won't allow any more deals?"
> 
> ...



That line of his about the need to have difficult conversations about them is all he should say on that subject - everyone recognizes what that means, and almost everyone realises that this Government didn't and wouldn't have those conversations with them.


----------



## chandlerp (Jun 5, 2017)

edited to ask Where has the fucking delete button gone?   My post was no longer relevant and couldn't delete it


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 5, 2017)

chandlerp said:


> edited to ask Where has the fucking delete button gone?   My post was no longer relevant and couldn't delete it


Edit select all delete then put in a punctuation mark of your choice


----------



## chilango (Jun 5, 2017)

Another thing that occurs to me when looking at age groups and voting intentions is that the oldest groups are probably close to their maximum turnout already, and already accounted for in polling.

Younger voters are still a wildcard with potential to cause an upset.


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 5, 2017)

Yer man Kenan

ON THOSE ‘DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS’


----------



## Wilf (Jun 5, 2017)

agricola said:


> That line of his about the need to have difficult conversations about them is all he should say on that subject - everyone recognizes what that means, and almost everyone realises that this Government didn't and wouldn't have those conversations with them.


I think he should be going with a 'you've got blood on your hands line'.  That would be about the Saudi thing even more than Libya. even if the link is more specific in terms of the Manchester bomber. Now, I recognise that's very likely to be bad advice*. To make that kind of accusation it would have to be well documented and it would have to be a planned assault - and there's no time for that.  It could well make things worse.  I'm just not sure about the 'everyone realises that' bit of what you say.  People *do* realise the tories are in bed with every kind of monster on the world stage, but don't necessarily twig the connection in terms of Saudi exporting terrorism.  So, if Labour want to make this an intervention that has some bearing on Thursday's result, they need to do something dramatic.  Should just add, I don't mean this in terms of some kind of cynical attempt to get Corbyn as PM, it's the other side of the coin, taking a chance to hurt the kind of scum who would sell anything to anyone, regardless of end results.

* edit: I realise my advice is like telling a boxer who is way behind on points that they need to 'come out swinging' for the last round.  Slight chance it will work, but he's as likely to take one in the mush himself. It's the sort of work that should have been built up over the last 18 months had Labour been a functioning party.  Hmmm, who was the shadow foreign secretary at the time who could have been doing this....


----------



## killer b (Jun 5, 2017)

Very good.


----------



## Carvaged (Jun 5, 2017)

The Tory campaign so far...


----------



## binka (Jun 5, 2017)

The Tory party are running so low on politicians they can trust to go on tv and not completely fuck it up that they've had to put michael gove on c4 news from his local pub via face time


----------



## Buckaroo (Jun 5, 2017)

binka said:


> The Tory party are running so low on politicians they can trust to go on tv and not completely fuck it up that they've had to put michael gove on c4 news from his local pub via face time



And that fucked up too


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 5, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> Can Labour go for the Saudi thing though?
> 
> Can they say, "we will stop this deal"? "We won't allow any more deals?"




They can certainly call a review and look for alternative uses of those skills and resources. What does it really say about our "advanced and successful" economy if we have to do that kind of thing for money?

The idea that we should not be arming Islamic extremists is a no-brainer for people across the spectrum.


----------



## Ted Striker (Jun 5, 2017)

Seeing Sturgeon on the BBC audience thing...Really doesn't look good for them (the SNP) and fear for the seats the Tories will mop up there


----------



## free spirit (Jun 5, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> Does blaming TM over police cuts make much sense in this case, though? Given that they had these guys shot within 8 minutes of receiving the emergency call, it's hard to argue they botched it this time...


700 fewer armed police officers now than in 2010, so the potential response time on average across the country must be higher than it would have been previously. Every minute is a minute in which more people are attacked.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 5, 2017)

Scots Tories think outside the box


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 5, 2017)

Crispy said:


> View attachment 108523
> 
> Must be for The Sun's front page for Wednesday or Thursday right?


I'd tell them about photoshop, but they're scum so I won't.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 5, 2017)

oh.my. word.


----------



## oryx (Jun 5, 2017)

Fingers said:


> oh.my. word.


----------



## brixtonblade (Jun 5, 2017)

That can't be real


----------



## gawkrodger (Jun 5, 2017)

Dear Labour HQ. Why do you allow Diane Abbott within 500m of a microphone or TV studio?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 5, 2017)

brixtonblade said:


> That can't be real


Greg Knight - Wikipedia
"Knight is a classic car enthusiast and owns a number of classic cars.
He plays the drums and is a founder member of MP4 —the world's only parliamentary rock group. The others are fellow MPs Kevin Brennan and Peter Wishart and former MP Ian Cawsey....
He has written six books, mostly on the subject of political quips and insults."


----------



## ska invita (Jun 5, 2017)

Fingers said:


> oh.my. word.



seems pretty capable. He's almost got walking down.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 5, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> Dear Labour HQ. Why do you allow Diane Abbott within 500m of a microphone or TV studio?




I'd rather not know, and I'd even less like to see any YouTube, but could someone please briefly summarise the  gist of this uselessness??


----------



## gosub (Jun 5, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I'd tell them about photoshop, but they're scum so I won't.


 Then you'd have things in the Sun that didny actually happen


----------



## Cid (Jun 5, 2017)

brixtonblade said:


> That can't be real



The video or his hair?


----------



## agricola (Jun 5, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> I'd rather not know, and I'd even less like to see any YouTube, but could someone please briefly summarise the  gist of this uselessness??



She got asked about a report that 95% of people had never heard of, and which may not even have been publicly released.  Rather than say she'd not read it, she tried to insist that she had.  A hullabaloo then ensued.


----------



## Weller (Jun 5, 2017)

Seriously WTF 
Greg Knight - Wikipedia


> He has backed several other artists on the drums in live shows including George McCrae "Rock your Baby", Fergal Sharkey "Teenage Kicks".


----------



## gosub (Jun 5, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> I'd rather not know, and I'd even less like to see any YouTube, but could someone please briefly summarise the  gist of this uselessness??



well she was on  Murnaghan on Sky earlier and a report into how to police London came up, which she said she'd read and then car crash bluffed her way through, having not read it,  but who knows where else her 'talents' have been deployed


----------



## gosub (Jun 5, 2017)

agricola said:


> She got asked about a report that 95% of people had never heard of, and which may not even have been publicly released.  Rather than say she'd not read it, she tried to insist that she had.  A hullabaloo then ensued.


London’s preparedness to respond to a major terrorist incident  A London MP, holding the main Home Office brief, not reading THE independant report into how London should deal with terrorism,  its bread and butter stuff not swotty extra homework for someone in that position


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 5, 2017)

I suspect I dont want to read *any*  more about this at all, but given how reasonably Corbyn has performed (emphasising police cuts etc), can he just not fucking *silence* any more team-rubbish until after Thursday


----------



## tim (Jun 5, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> It's only a proper wicker man if someone's in it. Someone religious, maybe a vicar's child



Whilst Pickmans model is clearly promoting British traditions and values, his enthusiasm for immolating the offspring of the Anglican clergy as part of that promotion indicates that he might have been radicalised.


----------



## agricola (Jun 6, 2017)

gosub said:


> London’s preparedness to respond to a major terrorist incident  A London MP, holding the main Home Office brief, not reading THE independant report into how London should deal with terrorism,  its bread and butter stuff not swotty extra homework for someone in that position



Perhaps, though there are more important things that she should have read about London's security and how a major incident would be responded to.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 6, 2017)

She's fucking rubbish on any level!


----------



## Raheem (Jun 6, 2017)

agricola said:


> Perhaps, though there are more important things that she should have read about London's security and how a major incident would be responded to.



Not to mention more important things she should pretend to have read.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 6, 2017)

And there's cutrrently no real election campaign happening at all.

All we're getting is fucking terrorism.
Terrorists are Tories  (as well as being murdering shitbags obs  )


----------



## gosub (Jun 6, 2017)

agricola said:


> Perhaps, though there are more important things that she should have read about London's security and how a major incident would be responded to.



If it had been acted on, Westminster Bridge and the London Bridge bit of Saturday wouldn't have happend.  (as she know knows)


----------



## agricola (Jun 6, 2017)

gosub said:


> If it had been acted on, Westminster Bridge and the London Bridge bit of Saturday wouldn't have happend.  (as she know knows)



That is going quite a bit too far.  Those two attacks would probably have happened, and probably have had the same result, even if all Harris' recommendations were implemented in full on the day he made them.


----------



## gosub (Jun 6, 2017)

agricola said:


> That is going quite a bit too far.  Those two attacks would probably have happened, and probably have had the same result, even if all Harris' recommendations were implemented in full on the day he made them.


The attacks would have taken place elsewhere, I grant you, but he wanted crash barriers protecting pedestrians because of Nice if Abbott was on top of her brief she could have been harranging for months rather than tonights cluelessness


----------



## newbie (Jun 6, 2017)

gosub said:


> The attacks would have taken place elsewhere, I grant you, but he wanted crash barriers protecting pedestrians because of Nice if Abbott was on top of her brief she could have been harranging for months rather than tonights cluelessness


she could have been ramping up fear while Corbyn promoted hope?


----------



## squirrelp (Jun 6, 2017)

Really bold from Corbyn taking the offensive over security issues. You'd expect terror events to favour the right wing, but he is flipping normal service on its head.


----------



## agricola (Jun 6, 2017)

gosub said:


> The attacks would have taken place elsewhere, I grant you, but he wanted crash barriers protecting pedestrians because of Nice if Abbott was on top of her brief she could have been harranging for months rather than tonights cluelessness



Perhaps, though IIRC the initial decision to remove a lot of the crash railings was taken under Livingstone (though Johnson ramped it up a lot).


----------



## newbie (Jun 6, 2017)

He's really going for it!


This is his pitch, his statement of intent, what we're being asked to endorse.  Worth reading in full, I'd suggest, before dwelling on specific bits. 

She's going to have to come up with something _very clear_ to answer that.


----------



## bemused (Jun 6, 2017)

newbie said:


> She's going to have to come up with something _very clear_ to answer that.



I don't think so; she'll carry on as before. 

Now Diane has shit the bed again; the entire news cycle will be that interview on a loop.

I do feel sorry for all the Labour media folks who have been driving the police cuts stuff all day only to have their legs chopped off at the knees because Diane Abbott is incapable of admitting she doesn't remember the detail of a report.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 6, 2017)

Q: Do any of the Corbyn rallies get shown on BBC news, even as very short segue shots?
Im curious what the TV version of this election looks like


----------



## bimble (Jun 6, 2017)

ON THOSE ‘DIFFICULT CONVERSATIONS’
Kenan Malik's latest, sane and clearsighted as always, with a sharp rejection of May's hollow 'enough is enough lets shut down the internet' speech.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 6, 2017)

Fingers said:


> oh.my. word.



I hope he's put the studio time, songwriting team and impressive array of musicians he obviously used in that down on his expenses.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 6, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I hope he's put the studio time, songwriting team and impressive array of musicians he obviously used in that down on his expenses.


 hes cut back the music compared to previous efforts


----------



## newbie (Jun 6, 2017)

ska invita said:


> Q: Do any of the Corbyn rallies get shown on BBC news, even as very short segue shots?
> Im curious what the TV version of this election looks like


I don't watch TV news either.

news coverage of Gateshead yesterday, not a single broadcaster




What the Mirror showed, so it wasn't a small crowd, you might think it was televisual

The Canary noticed and gathered together a bunch of tweets and contrasted them with something the BBC did manage to cover, a May meeting where they "_had to remind the 70 or so supporters gathered in Edinburgh to cheer and clap to avoid it looking “like there is no one here”_.


So, no.


----------



## tim (Jun 6, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> And there's cutrrently no real election campaign happening at all.
> 
> All we're getting is fucking terrorism.
> Terrorists are Tories  (as well as being murdering shitbags obs  )



Because for the first time ever the Tories are not the "Law and Order" party.


----------



## rekil (Jun 6, 2017)

Fingers said:


> oh.my. word.





> Comments are disabled for this video.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 6, 2017)

newbie said:


> news coverage of Gateshead yesterday, not a single broadcaster
> 
> [...]
> 
> ...



The usual hyperbolic organisers' estimates were 4000+ people in Gateshead last night. I wasn't there but have seen photos from several people who were, from multiple vantage points. I'd say 1500 as a fairly conservative (sorry) estimate. In shitty weather on a Monday evening at a venue that is not the most accessible by public transport (compared to say a Newcastle city centre gathering) that's not bad.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 6, 2017)

newbie said:


> I don't watch TV news either.
> 
> news coverage of Gateshead yesterday, not a single broadcaster
> 
> ...


thats been my "impression" (based on looks at the BBC news website, purely to see what they are reporting)....I remember back in the day pictures of Blair eating an ice cream and the likes of Cameron addressing captivated warehosue workers...standard campaing trail coverage . You wouldve thought big crowds would make good "optics" [blurgh] ??


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 6, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> Dear Labour HQ. Why do you allow Diane Abbott within 500m of a microphone or TV studio?



I genuinely don't think Diane Abbott is ok. I'm being completely sincere. She doesn't look like a well person. I'd written off the LBC interview as her just being ill prepared, but looking at the Sky interview, I'm starting to think there may be something wrong with her. All joking aside.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 6, 2017)

Fingers said:


> oh.my. word.






"Comedy"


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 6, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> View attachment 108593
> 
> "Comedy"


Damn you, I was just going to point that out 

Good thing I read to the end of the thread...


----------



## Cid (Jun 6, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> View attachment 108593
> 
> "Comedy"



Yeah... But nevertheless he is MP for East Yorkshire, and he has a website. Which features that video.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2017)

Cid said:


> Yeah... But nevertheless he is MP for East Yorkshire, and he has a website. Which features that video.


looking for a change of career after thurs perhaps?


----------



## Lucy Fur (Jun 6, 2017)




----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> Dear Labour HQ. Why do you allow Diane Abbott within 500m of a microphone or TV studio?


this was in The Times (dunno how true it is, but it looks realistic...)

_Tensions came to a head last weekend when Jeremy Corbyn’s office discovered that she was to appear on BBC One’s Andrew Marr Show last Sunday.

The shadow home secretary is thought to have made arrangements directly with the programme’s producer to appear without the consent of the campaign.

Ms Abbott’s previous media appearances have caused difficulty with Labourcandidates. They have reported back to the party’s central command that her “brain fade” moment – when she said that her police recruitment policy would cost £300,000 rather than £300 million on LBC – has come up regularly on the doorstep. The interview was also exploited by the Tories.

Labour sources said John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, and Karie Murphy, Mr Corbyn’s chief of staff, both phoned Ms Abbott to persuade her to pull out of the show but when they failed, the Labour leader phoned her himself, to no avail.

A source said: “John McDonnell was furious at the prospect of Diane going on again. In the end they got Jeremy to phone her himself – but she … went ahead and did the interview, which was predictably awful._


----------



## rekil (Jun 6, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I hope he's put the studio time, songwriting team and impressive array of musicians he obviously used in that down on his expenses.


Magic money tree.


> Greg Knight, an MP with a collection of classic cars, claimed £2,600 in expenses for repair work on the driveway at his designated second home as part of a £21,793 bill to the taxpayer for maintenance and security.
> 
> The backbench Conservative MP submitted detailed bills of £13,755 in MPs expenses over four years for work on the roof, windows and paving at his constituency house in East Yorkshire and a further £8,038 for unspecified maintenance, security, insurance and repair costs.
> 
> ...


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 6, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> I genuinely don't think Diane Abbott is ok. I'm being completely sincere. She doesn't look like a well person. I'd written off the LBC interview as her just being ill prepared, but looking at the Sky interview, I'm starting to think there may be something wrong with her. All joking aside.




I'm very wary of making such diagnostic judgements on anyone without knowing them, never mind on the basis of something as artificial as a TV interview in the run-up to a general election.

The Sky clip here certainly confirms that she's poor at such interviews - not great at thinking fast on her feet, and prone to looking and sounding evasive without actually succeeding in evading anything. But I'm not sure I'd even speculate that there's something (other than what I've already said) 'wrong with' her on the basis of it.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 6, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> I'm very wary of making such diagnostic judgements on anyone without knowing them, never mind on the basis of something as artificial as a TV interview in the run-up to a general election.
> 
> The Sky clip here certainly confirms that she's poor at such interviews - not great at thinking fast on her feet, and prone to looking and sounding evasive without actually succeeding in evading anything. But I'm not sure I'd even speculate that there's something (other than what I've already said) 'wrong with' her on the basis of it.



I'm not claiming to be a MH expert by any means, but this is a woman who's no stranger to media and it's like watching a different person compared to how relatively sharp she used to be on This Week. I might be wrong but she just doesn't look to be mentally all there to me.


----------



## xenon (Jun 6, 2017)

She gets asked about that potential rift in the interview above.  Again it's just awful.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 6, 2017)




----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 6, 2017)

An interview with the guy they tried to silence the other night for mentioning Saudi and other corruption stuff, cos Amber Rudd didn't like it.


----------



## Lucy Fur (Jun 6, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


>



6 posts up ....


----------



## bimble (Jun 6, 2017)

If that quote from The Times is true (that Corbyn himself had to call her asking her to please not do any more interviews and she just went on anyhow) then surely Abbott just needs to be sacked now, she's a gift for the Tories and nobody can reasonably think she's up to the job of home secretary.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Jun 6, 2017)

Fingers said:


> oh.my. word.



I remember that cunt he used to be my parents' MP for Derby North waaaaaay back under Thatcher and Major, until Labour won and then he got kicked out. I had no idea he was still around.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 6, 2017)

bimble said:


> If that quote from The Times is true (that Corbyn himself had to call her asking her to please not do any more interviews and she just went on anyhow) then surely Abbott just needs to be sacked now, she's a gift for the Tories and nobody can reasonably think she's up to the job of home secretary.



They can't sack her. She knows where the bodies are buried


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 6, 2017)

Dr. Furface said:


> I remember that cunt he used to be my parents' MP for Derby North waaaaaay back under Thatcher and Major, until Labour won and then he got kicked out. I had no idea he was still around.


vote for a man wearing a dead badger


----------



## belboid (Jun 6, 2017)

Diane's been pulled from Women's Hour, for some strange reason


----------



## CrabbedOne (Jun 6, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> vote for a man wearing a dead badger


Similar strategy worked for Trump.


----------



## Libertad (Jun 6, 2017)

belboid said:


> Diane's been pulled from Women's Hour, for some strange reason



That was four and a half hours ago. Ms. Abbott is unwell.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 6, 2017)

bimble said:


> If that quote from The Times is true (that Corbyn himself had to call her asking her to please not do any more interviews and she just went on anyhow) then surely Abbott just needs to be sacked now, she's a gift for the Tories and nobody can reasonably think she's up to the job of home secretary.


You can't sack your shadow home secretary 2 days before a general election.


----------



## editor (Jun 6, 2017)

The Standard seems to be suddenly peddling articles that could almost be seen as encouraging people to vote Labour 
Tory poll lead slashed by 16 points as 'election race on a knife edge'


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 6, 2017)

Or they could be ratcheting up the fear of red corbyn to get the undecided onside


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

London has a crazy lead for Labour - The Standard wants it's paper read by the labour voters as well as the tories.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 6, 2017)

editor said:


> The Standard seems to be suddenly peddling articles that could almost be seen as encouraging people to vote Labour
> Tory poll lead slashed by 16 points as 'election race on a knife edge'


No way...that article actually means 'Quick! Vote Tory, the commies are coming.' Look at the state of that pic of JC also...


----------



## kabbes (Jun 6, 2017)

Newspapers these days universally seem to have websites that are almost unusable with the thin client I have at work.  It's so frustrating.  It takes an age to scroll and then leaps when it finally manage it -- so much that I generally give up after reading the first screen.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 6, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> Or they could be ratcheting up the fear of red corbyn to get the undecided onside





Rutita1 said:


> No way...that article actually means 'Quick! Vote Tory, the commies are coming.' Look at the state of that pic of JC also...



I've no doubt that's the right reading of their intentions. But it's quite a high-risk strategy, isn't it?

The right-wing media (ie, the media) has spent a couple of years going, 'no one [who counts] supports Corbyn, he couldn't possibly win, he's a joke'. And no doubt many people who decided against him did so on that basis, even if they might have had a fair amount of sympathy with his policies (that's certainly what polls of support for him vs support for his policies suggest).

To now go 'actually, he's got so much support he might win, bloody well take him seriously' might galvanise the lazy Tory vote, but it might also persuade some of the 'is he really up to the job?' fence-sitters that voting Corbyn isn't the cataclysmic risk and/or waste of time it was supposed to be.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 6, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Newspapers these days universally seem to have websites that are almost unusable with the thin client I have at work.  It's so frustrating.  It takes an age to scroll and then leaps when it finally manage it -- so much that I generally give up after reading the first screen.



You're probably better informed than any of us, then.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 6, 2017)

billy_bob said:


> I'm very wary of making such diagnostic judgements on anyone without knowing them, never mind on the basis of something as artificial as a TV interview in the run-up to a general election.
> 
> The Sky clip here certainly confirms that she's poor at such interviews - not great at thinking fast on her feet, and prone to looking and sounding evasive without actually succeeding in evading anything. But I'm not sure I'd even speculate that there's something (other than what I've already said) 'wrong with' her on the basis of it.


I don't get what's wrong with what she said. She seemed to be agreeing with him.


----------



## Corax (Jun 6, 2017)

Wilf said:


> If Labour are going to go with this - and I think they should - they should _really_ go for it (particularly the Saudi thing).  Shouldn't be going on about 'difficult conversations', should be going for the jugular on May selling weapons to the very people who are blowing us up.  I realise that's high risk and there's the added problem of being able to link Saudi to specific attacks.  But there's probably a form of words to be had that gets round that but also manages to go for it.


Problem being, in my limited perception, that very few voters (percentage wise) have enough backstory, enough prior knowledge, for that narrative to make an instant impact with them.  "May selling weapons to the very people who are blowing us up" sounds good initially but would be quickly countered with "What? Don't be so silly. Look at this weirdo lol!" and there's not enough time left for the subsequent proof and denial stuff to play out.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

that's fairly contemptuous of the cognitive abilities of our countryfolk, corax.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 6, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Newspapers these days universally seem to have websites that are almost unusable with the thin client I have at work.  It's so frustrating.  It takes an age to scroll and then leaps when it finally manage it -- so much that I generally give up after reading the first screen.



None of the Johnston Press local newspaper sites work very well on my iPad, shit popping up all over the place, followed by a 'this page is reloading' message due to some error or another. Adverts tend to be of the 'you could buy an iPad for £7 with this easy trick' variety.  I'm increasingly seeing 'to read the rest of this article answer this quick survey' too, which means I don't bother. Local papers are spiralling the u-bend.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 6, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I don't get what's wrong with what she said. She seemed to be agreeing with him.



I thought it was a weak interview with hesitant, unconvincing responses, rather than a complete teeth-grinding car crash disaster.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 6, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> No way...that article actually means 'Quick! Vote Tory, the commies are coming.' Look at the state of that pic of JC also...



In fairness the standard has been using some pretty unflattering photos of May as well, I imagine its just Osborne having some fun.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 6, 2017)

Yay, it's Cassetteboy day of the GE campaign!


----------



## 8den (Jun 6, 2017)

Loyalist Paramilitaries endorse the DUP and warn unionists about voting Alliance. But let's spend another news cycle about how terrible it was Corbyn had peace talks 30 years ago.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 6, 2017)

TM is meeting with floating voters today. Here she is admiring an ordinary woman's brooch:


----------



## 8den (Jun 6, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> TM is meeting with floating voters today. Here she is admiring an ordinary woman's brooch:
> View attachment 108624



Why is she wearing leopard print slippers?


----------



## Raheem (Jun 6, 2017)

8den said:


> Why is she wearing leopard print slippers?



She's not. She's wearing human print leggings.


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 6, 2017)

It's part of a cunningly devised strategy to create division among her opponents between those who see it as an obvious opportunity to ridicule her bizarre choice of apparel and others who feel uneasy about judging any woman on her choice of clothing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> TM is meeting with floating voters today. Here she is admiring an ordinary woman's brooch:
> View attachment 108624








that poor woman with the boots on is horribly embarrassed to see the party leader making such an arse of herself in her 1970s lounge slippers.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 6, 2017)

Would a similar result to 2015 be progress or just standing still for Labour?


----------



## Wilf (Jun 6, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> TM is meeting with floating voters today. Here she is admiring an ordinary woman's brooch:
> View attachment 108624


No chips this time, I see.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2017)

Wilf said:


> No chips this time, I see.


she's had her chips


----------



## jakethesnake (Jun 6, 2017)

May could face loss of seat over #Abbott comment electoral breach #GE17 #BBCQT
May reported to police for making false claims about Abbott on TV... probably won't go any where but another headache for her.


----------



## J.C.Decaux (Jun 6, 2017)

.

The Theresa May lair lair song...........



.


----------



## 8den (Jun 6, 2017)

eoin_k said:


> It's part of a cunningly devised strategy to create division among her opponents between those who see it as an obvious opportunity to ridicule her bizarre choice of apparel and others who feel uneasy about judging any woman on her choice of clothing.



No but so much ink has been wasted on her taste in shoes, one wonders why she's out and about in what appear to be Bet Lynch's house shoes.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 6, 2017)

jakethesnake said:


> May could face loss of seat over #Abbott comment electoral breach #GE17 #BBCQT
> May reported to police for making false claims about Abbott on TV... probably won't go any where but another headache for her.



Isn't this the same website that gave us the heads up a couple of weeks ago about May getting banged up for insider dealing?

I did notice this on it, though, which made me smile a little.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 6, 2017)

Who gets the job if May loses?

Or even if she wins, given how much of a lame duck she is.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2017)

Just went to the Corbyn rally in Brum. Was big, diverse and young. As with Bernie Sanders it really is young women driving so much of this. Still, probably not big enough. I am starting to get a sinking feeling about Thursday.

I think the Corbyn project has failed to engage the unegaged in the way that it probably needs to in order to win.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 6, 2017)

Fingers said:


> oh.my. word.



This is even more... well... WTF


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 6, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Just went to the Corbyn rally in Brum. Was big, diverse and young. As with Bernie Sanders it really is young women driving so much of this. Still, probably not big enough. I am starting to get a sinking feeling about Thursday.
> 
> I think the Corbyn project has failed to engage the unegaged in the way that it probably needs to in order to win.


We'll see. But it will be a fucking shit five years if tm wins big


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2017)

Still, some nice moments. Deliveroo people stopped people on the way back from the rally, showing their support for Corbyn.


----------



## Cid (Jun 6, 2017)

eatmorecheese said:


> This is even more... well... WTF




Pretty catchy I think.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 6, 2017)

bimble said:


> If that quote from The Times is true (that Corbyn himself had to call her asking her to please not do any more interviews and she just went on anyhow) then surely Abbott just needs to be sacked now, she's a gift for the Tories and nobody can reasonably think she's up to the job of home secretary.


Yes because sacking the shadow home sec a day and half before the election is definitely going to help Labour.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 6, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> TM is meeting with floating voters today. Here she is admiring an ordinary woman's brooch:
> View attachment 108624



Alan Partridge on the right there look.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I am starting to get a sinking feeling about Thursday.


there's been a noticeable push on 'lose hope' today. All of a sudden the tories are apparently not panicking at all and are calmly campaigning to win in safe labour seats, the maquis are limbering up for a heavy defeat and a new challenge, there's been a lot of analysis dropped today pointing to an easy tory win... They've decided what's going to happen, and will try to make it so. Maybe they're right. Maybe not.

I don't know what's real anymore though tbh.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 6, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Yes because sacking the shadow home sec a day and half before the election is definitely going to help Labour.



He's in a bind - he can't sack her 36 hours before the polls open because that looks like chaos, but there will be people, and not a few, who don't vote Labour because of the prospect of Diane Abbott as Home Secretary by lunchtime on Friday.

I'm assuming her monumental ego won't accept Corbyns team deciding she'll sit Corbyns first cabinet out for 'health reasons'..?


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Alan Partridge on the right there look.



No he was with us in Brum!


----------



## Sifta (Jun 6, 2017)

bimble said:


> If that quote from The Times is true (that Corbyn himself had to call her asking her to please not do any more interviews and she just went on anyhow) then surely Abbott just needs to be sacked now, she's a gift for the Tories and nobody can reasonably think she's up to the job of home secretary.



Looking at her recent performance, I suspect she is in fact seriously ill (but doesn't know it). [ Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional]


----------



## Sifta (Jun 6, 2017)

A few years back, we got a new boss in. He saw an older, but long standing, employee shambling along the corridor, leaning on the wall, and sacked him on the spot for drunkenness. Dead two weeks later with a brain tumour.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

give over.


----------



## flypanam (Jun 6, 2017)

killer b said:


> there's been a noticeable push on 'lose hope' today. All of a sudden the tories are apparently not panicking at all and are calmly campaigning to win in safe labour seats, the maquis are limbering up for a heavy defeat and a new challenge, there's been a lot of analysis dropped today pointing to an easy tory win... They've decided what's going to happen, and will try to make it so. Maybe they're right. Maybe not.
> 
> I don't know what's real anymore though tbh.


Some similar stuff in the Irish Times about Wakefield
Tories target Labour seats in Thatcher-hating Yorkshire

Also, I know one Tory lad, he's very confident. He's not crowing but he has no doubts that the tories will have a workable majority.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2017)

One thing is for certain, I did not know that I could hate the Tories any more than I already did, but there was some real hidden potential there waiting to be unlocked and has been by this election.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

flypanam said:


> Also, I know one Tory lad, he's very confident. He's not crowing but he has no doubts that the tories will have a workable majority.


He's just read the news, like everyone else. They don't get any secret info via tory backchannels.


----------



## 03gills (Jun 6, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Just went to the Corbyn rally in Brum. Was big, diverse and young. As with Bernie Sanders it really is young women driving so much of this. Still, probably not big enough. I am starting to get a sinking feeling about Thursday.
> 
> I think the Corbyn project has failed to engage the unegaged in the way that it probably needs to in order to win.



Come on mate, what's with the hard on for the opposite take? If Corb can manage 34% of the vote (which is at the modest end of what is being predicted) then that's a pretty impressive showing after just two short years, especially when you consider how universally hostile the mainstream media has been towards him. remember, Ed managed a mere 1% increase in vote share after 5 long years of Tory austerity. Corb will have managed over double than in less than half the time.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2017)

03gills said:


> Come on mate, what's with the hard on for the opposite take? If Corb can manage 34% of the vote (which is at the modest end of what is being predicted) then that's a pretty impressive showing after just two short years, especially when you consider how universally hostile the mainstream media has been towards him. remember, Ed managed a mere 1% increase in vote share after 5 long years of Tory austerity. Corb will have managed over double than in less than half the time.



I don't disagree with any of this, what the Labour leadership have achieved despite the party and the entire media is nothing short of astonishing. I did not think it could happen, I am sure that they thought it could never happen either. It still isn't enough though.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 6, 2017)

J Ed said:


> One thing is for certain, I did not know that I could hate the Tories any more than I already did, but there was some real hidden potential there waiting to be unlocked and has been by this election.


Oh yes, when they do win this shamefully negative campaign it will come with a considerable reservoir of latent resistance.


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 6, 2017)

I feel deflated today too, possibly because the bits of news I've seen have been relentlessly pro-Tory today. Just look at the BBC's election page right now - Election 2017 - BBC News of the stories on the top part of the screen there are three about May's statements / policies and just one about Labour - and of course it's Diane's illness. 

But I guess this last three days is bound to be like this, a final war of attrition. I reckon Labour will have hordes of activists out on Thursday - I've signed up to do stuff which is really very very unlike me and I've heard the local party is a bit overwhelmed with offers of help.


----------



## bimble (Jun 6, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Yes because sacking the shadow home sec a day and half before the election is definitely going to help Labour.


I don't know, keeping her in the position she's in is a disaster too, don't think it's that obvious that sacking her would be worse tbh.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2017)

bimble said:


> I don't know, keeping her in the position she's in is a disaster too, don't think it's that obvious that sacking her would be worse tbh.



It would look beyond terrible bimble.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 6, 2017)

bimble said:


> I don't know, keeping her in the position she's in is a disaster too, don't think it's that obvious that sacking her would be worse tbh.


It'd be a fucking disaster, the last story before the election. Just keep her out of sight until 6PM on the 8th.


----------



## little_legs (Jun 6, 2017)

Some weirdness at work and home today:

First, a workmate who lives in Harrow said that she plans to vote for the Greens _because May supports fox hunting_. When I asked her whether she's considered voting for Labour she said she finds Corbyn _uninspiring_.

Then another workmate, lives in St Albans, said he already voted by post for a Lib Dem candidate because all he wants is to see Anne Maine out. When I asked why did he not consider voting for Labour, he just shrugged.

Another woman from the office who lives in Cambridge heard us and said _Why the hell should I vote for Labour? _I did not dare to respond.

Later when I came home, I found a Tory flyer, which is kinda weird because I've lived in Dulwich & West Norwood ctcy since 2012, and the Tories have never bothered campaigning here.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2017)

To be honest this last bit of 'I will rip up human rights legislation to fight terror' stuff is exactly what a lot of people I have spoken to in recent days are probably after. I think it's going to work very well for them.


----------



## chilango (Jun 6, 2017)

Just doesn't seem enough time left to gather a last head of steam together for the final 5% push I think is needed.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 6, 2017)

jakethesnake said:


> May could face loss of seat over #Abbott comment electoral breach #GE17 #BBCQT
> May reported to police for making false claims about Abbott on TV... probably won't go any where but another headache for her.


Yeah like that's going to happen.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 6, 2017)

J Ed said:


> To be honest this last bit of 'I will rip up human rights legislation to fight terror' stuff is exactly what a lot of people I have spoken to in recent days are probably after. I think it's going to work very well for them.


Those people already think they are getting that with Brexit.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 6, 2017)

killer b said:


> there's been a noticeable push on 'lose hope' today. All of a sudden the tories are apparently not panicking at all and are calmly campaigning to win in safe labour seats, the maquis are limbering up for a heavy defeat and a new challenge, there's been a lot of analysis dropped today pointing to an easy tory win... They've decided what's going to happen, and will try to make it so. Maybe they're right. Maybe not.
> 
> I don't know what's real anymore though tbh.



This is exactly what we should expect, no? There's a lot of vested interests in people feeling downhearted and staying at home, no. Not that I don't think it's likely too much of a hill to climb, but it's even harder if people give up. 

I don't know what to think. I still wonder what might have happened to the polls without the terrorist attacks, those few more days of momentum building, then I feel terribly guilty for thinking that way.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 6, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Those people already think they are getting that with Brexit.



Yes, but there may some votes that it will take from UKIP.

OTOH, she may be leaving herself open to having to climb down, or being seen to be full of shit. Her manifesto commits her to staying in the ECHR for the full parliament. So what does she actually mean?


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 6, 2017)

Raheem said:


> Yes, but there may some votes that it will take from UKIP.
> 
> OTOH, she may be leaving herself open to having to climb down, or being seen to be full of shit. Her manifesto commits her to staying in the ECHR for the full parliament. So what does she actually mean?


We already know that some kippers will turn blue, though. that's nothing new.

I don't think this will be a deciding factor. 

It's just empty rhetoric compared to the reality when you have actual coppers coming out and accusing the tories of lying and of fucking up the police service. That's going to be a stronger argument.


----------



## agricola (Jun 6, 2017)

J Ed said:


> To be honest this last bit of 'I will rip up human rights legislation to fight terror' stuff is exactly what a lot of people I have spoken to in recent days are probably after. I think it's going to work very well for them.



I will do, if its not challenged.  Corbyn has to come out and point out that we have had all manner of legislation like that proposed, and voted in, since 9/11 and we are less safe now than we were then.  Superficially "tough" legislation is worse than doing nothing if its not properly targeted or resourced.  We have to do things better than we have been doing under her watch.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> This is exactly what we should expect, no? There's a lot of vested interests in people feeling downhearted and staying at home, no. Not that I don't think it's likely too much of a hill to climb, but it's even harder if people give up.
> 
> I don't know what to think. I still wonder what might have happened to the polls without the terrorist attacks, those few more days of momentum building, then I feel terribly guilty for thinking that way.


Yes of course - I was posting to draw attention to the concerted effort to make everyone give up hope I'd observed rather than saying people should give up hope. That said, the most likely result remains a tory win - but that hasn't really ever changed.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 6, 2017)




----------



## brogdale (Jun 6, 2017)

Fez909 said:


>


Difficult to argue with that.


----------



## kebabking (Jun 6, 2017)

Fez909 said:


>



Sensible policies for a happier Britain.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2017)

Someone is angling for a coalition...

Nicola Sturgeon says 'difficult' Theresa May will struggle with Brexit talks



> Admitted that she would not be pushing to hold a second independence referendum until the future trading relationship between the UK and EU has been decided, saying “none of us actually know” when that will be.
> 
> Said she believed May would emerge from this election weakened whatever the actual result, and was probably wishing she had never called it.
> Said she believed that she was closer politically to Jeremy Corbyn on a number of policies than Scotland’s Labour leader, Kezia Dugdale, was.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 6, 2017)

bimble said:


> I don't know, keeping her in the position she's in is a disaster too, don't think it's that obvious that sacking her would be worse tbh.


News now looks like jez getting rid of Abbott. Seems you called that one right bimble.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

where are you reading this?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 6, 2017)

On the news on t'telly box. Main story may be a little different to the initial bongs. Just waiting for it as I can't see owt on the net yet.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 6, 2017)

killer b said:


> where are you reading this?


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 6, 2017)

That's standard stuff though, see May on Hammond. They, quite sensibly, don't want to say yes or no as then journalists will go through everybody in the (shadow) cabinet.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 6, 2017)

Cheers. Fez909 wasn't worded initially like that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> That's standard stuff though, see May on Hammond. They, quite sensibly, don't want to say yes or no as then journalists will go through everybody in the (shadow) cabinet.


Yup. They used to say "s/he has my full support" until that became code for "s/he's going". Now they refuse to confirm or deny.


----------



## Gerry1time (Jun 6, 2017)

Gerry1time said:


> I know not seeing Yvette Cooper on telly anywhere has kept my blood pressure lower for starters.



Oh FFS I spoke too soon Yvette Cooper launches personal attack on May over armed police cuts

Funny how she only pops her head up once the polls start looking better. Complete coincidence obviously.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 6, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Someone is angling for a coalition...
> 
> Nicola Sturgeon says 'difficult' Theresa May will struggle with Brexit talks


To me that reads more like an attempt to use the Corbyn boost Labour have got in Scotland against the SLP - look I'm closer to him than those shits


----------



## kebabking (Jun 6, 2017)

killer b said:


> where are you reading this?



All I read was that Corbyn had refused to say whether he'd appoint her as HS - and the same for the rest of his cabinet.

I saw no nuance, or nudge-nudge, or anything to suggest that he's given her the heave-ho any more than he'd given John McDonnell his cards.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 6, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> To me that reads more like an attempt to use the Corbyn boost Labour have got in Scotland against the SLP - look I'm closer to him than those shits



Makes sense. She has a point, although of course that isn't saying much.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

kebabking said:


> All I read was that Corbyn had refused to say whether he'd appoint her as HS - and the same for the rest of his cabinet.
> 
> I saw no nuance, or nudge-nudge, or anything to suggest that he's given her the heave-ho any more than he'd given John McDonnell his cards.


yeah, I read the same thing earlier - it was a q specifically referring to Abbott though, and is a different answer to the one he gave the other night where he confirmed the top team would remain as it currently is. 

He would get rid, in the event of winning. But it's unlikely he'll get rid tonight.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 6, 2017)

Sorry for any distress or confusion I may have caused. Plus,  apologies for any stupidity on my part. Mainly the latter 
. .


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

no distress, don't fret.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Someone is angling for a coalition...
> 
> Nicola Sturgeon says 'difficult' Theresa May will struggle with Brexit talk


None of that's anything new. Although the papers have to say it is. I suppose "exclusive: person says what they've said several times already" wouldn't sell many copies.


----------



## agricola (Jun 6, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> That's standard stuff though, see May on Hammond. They, quite sensibly, don't want to say yes or no as then journalists will go through everybody in the (shadow) cabinet.



He did say, in the same interview, that Starmer, Thornberry and Gardiner would take the lead on Brexit negotiations though.  The implication was very clear.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 6, 2017)

killer b said:


> no distress, don't fret.


Still a fucking plum though


----------



## agricola (Jun 6, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> None of that's anything new. Although the papers have to say it is. I suppose "exclusive: person says what they've said several times already" wouldn't sell many copies.



I offer up Richard Littlejohn in evidence of my disagreement with your post.


----------



## friedaweed (Jun 6, 2017)

I thought Jezza looked like he'd had a few Gary Abletts in Birmingham tonight   Very animated


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 6, 2017)

On cabinet positions though could be some interesting politicking if the Tories do get in but with May, relatively weakened. Lots of reports about her wanting to get Gummer in and move Johnson, with a majority of 100+ she could have afforded to piss a few people off. Much more difficult with a majority of 40 and MPs unhappy with her.


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 6, 2017)

Fingers said:


> oh.my. word.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 6, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Just went to the Corbyn rally in Brum. Was big, diverse and young. As with Bernie Sanders it really is young women driving so much of this. Still, probably not big enough. I am starting to get a sinking feeling about Thursday.
> 
> *I think the Corbyn project has failed to engage the unegaged in the way that it probably needs to in order to win*.


Yep. The prospect of another 5 years of full on neo-liberalism has almost got me to the point of forgetting my core politics, to the point where I'm cheering Corbyn on (and I do _desperately_ want Labour to stop may getting a majority).  But ultimately that's the issue, that's what's actually wrong with Corbynism.  It hasn't engaged with the disengaged and it hasn't done enough to stop dealing with the world in the way you'd expect any old institutional centre left party to behave.  Yes, he's been fire fighting a tidal wave of media hostility and treachery from his own MPs.  But ultimately Labour hasn't engaged the disengaged because it hasn't even spoken to them.


----------



## killer b (Jun 6, 2017)

Brilliant


----------



## Fingers (Jun 6, 2017)

MochaSoul said:


>



Ha ha.

On another note, went to the Croydon rally tonight. Decent turn out tempered no doubt by the appalling weather. Met John McDonnell!


----------



## pesh (Jun 6, 2017)




----------



## JimW (Jun 6, 2017)

This is The Sun tomorrow apparently:

Desperation time


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2017)

JimW said:


> This is The Sun tomorrow apparently:
> 
> Desperation time



Jesus.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 6, 2017)

"What word for 'three people' will sound like commies?"


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 6, 2017)

FFS


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 6, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 108670
> 
> "What word for 'three people' will sound like commies?"



'Troika'. Fucking cunts.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 6, 2017)

thats Lenin, Stalin and Rosa luxembourg right there


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 6, 2017)

Foda-se! I reaaally hope those two mean they know something we don't.  
Back campainning tomorrow anyway.


----------



## JimW (Jun 6, 2017)

Wording of the Sun thing sounds like tenuous links being drawn. Apparently telegraph also going on about him being on Special Branch's watch list for twenty years, like anyone wasn't back then


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 6, 2017)

a sled pulled by three horses. a Commie sled to be precise


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 6, 2017)

Judge a man on what he does, not what he has done.

are these fuckers unable to haul themselves out of the mud of the past ?


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 6, 2017)

Desperate, so desperate.

I'd love them to fail, but I've been waiting most of my life.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jun 7, 2017)

In all seriousness, the Mail and The Sun just need shutting down. I'm all for healthy debate but those unhealthy, diseased rags need to go.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jun 7, 2017)

I'm writing out a complaint to the PCC** just now about both those front pages. I'd hope others are doing the same.

/edit - IPSO, not the PCC


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 7, 2017)

I get the feeling these headlines will backfire.


----------



## agricola (Jun 7, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> Judge a man on what he does, not what he has done.
> 
> are these fuckers unable to haul themselves out of the mud of the past ?



It isn't even "what he has done".  The S*n's entire headline is that he gave a speech at an event, in Trafalgar Square, at which al-Muhajiroun members were present.  That is the entirity of it.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 7, 2017)

Yup- its just the dredging up of irrelevant shite from the past and presenting it out of context that fucks me off- constant looking back, no examination of the present


----------



## gosub (Jun 7, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> Judge a man on what he does, not what he has done.
> 
> are these fuckers unable to haul themselves out of the mud of the past ?



yeah, but Troikas  when there is a perfectly servicable bus.


----------



## JimW (Jun 7, 2017)

agricola said:


> It isn't even "what he has done".  The S*n's entire headline is that he gave a speech at an event, in Trafalgar Square, at which al-Muhajiroun members were present.  That is the entirity of it.


But..but they _investigated_


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 7, 2017)

I think they compiled a dossier- thats proper journalism. a Dossier of horror and terror.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jun 7, 2017)

agricola said:


> It isn't even "what he has done".  The S*n's entire headline is that he gave a speech at an event, in Trafalgar Square, at which al-Muhajiroun members were present.  That is the entirity of it.



Yeah reading the front page was a very "is that it?" experience, I'm surprised they've not got something a bit more impressive for the day before the election tbh.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> <snip>
> 
> "What word for 'three people' will sound like commies?"


Not sure these aren't really going to help the Tories, I mean they're so mad that I can see them being a turnoff to undecided/swing voters.

Surely would have helped the Tories more if they'd turned the dial down a bit, to say 8 frogs in the box rather than 11.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 7, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> Not sure these aren't really going to help the Tories, I mean there so mad that I can see them being a turnoff to undecided/swing voters.
> 
> Surely would have helped the Tories more if they'd turned the dial down a bit, to say 8 frogs in the box rather than 11.



Yeah, I agree. This will mainly persuade people who were already persuaded, and some of those might have second thoughts if they actually read the Sun article. The number of people who will just accept something because they see it on the front page of a tabloid is actually pretty small, I reckon, and smaller still if you count only those people who will vote.


----------



## Nylock (Jun 7, 2017)

If those Sun and Mail front pages are anything to go by, i'll be on-course to win a bet at work 

(Wagered that the right wing press would go into full-on hysteria overdrive by wednesday over corbo after the London attack reportage had begun to tail off...)


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 7, 2017)

While fascist headlines may have less effect than they used to, they still shout to us from 10,000s of newstands, not just people who buy them. It is thus impactful on mindset. They also frame the nature of "debate" on trash like BBC and other "news" outlets, for whom a significant amount "background research" incorporates reading such headlines. That's why billionaires still pour money into outlets which are decreasing in profitability. They are buying influence. So yes, it's probably less effective than it used to be but it is still probably effective. 
In politics, especially first past the post, you don't have to fool many people to make a big difference. I still hear that "terrorist sympathiser" line used quite a lot against Corbyn. Obviously Tories can actually arm islamic extremists and that's ok, because Hitler-licking rags didn't put it on the front page.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Jun 7, 2017)

I think those headlines are going to blow right up in their face. That's treating the electorate like complete and utter mugs.


----------



## Nylock (Jun 7, 2017)

...If you think those headlines are bad, you won't BELIEVE what they'll be like on Thursday!


----------



## Raheem (Jun 7, 2017)

Nylock said:


> ...If you think those headlines are bad, you won't BELIEVE what they'll be like on Thursday!



"Maddie found in boot of Corbyn's car"
"Burrell: Diana warned country in danger from man with beard"
"Diane Abbot in sex pics fury"


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 7, 2017)

Doctor Carrot said:


> I think those headlines are going to blow right up in their face. That's treating the electorate like complete and utter mugs.



Top two comments on the sun article:



> What a non story full of inaccuracies. The current, relevant news is that tonight Corbyn gave a fantastic speech at a rally attended by thousands, but the Sun wouldn't want to tell thh truth would they? They are digging up events from 15 years ago. Well 15 years ago this paper was hacking the phones of murdered schoolgirls and dead soldiers families.





> This is utterly despicable from the sun to target for Corbyn when clearly he opposes them and anyone who spreads hatred since Corbyn is an activity who promotes peace. Corbyn is targetted by the sun just because he is targeting rich and want an equal society. I for one understand that when it comes to terrorists it is unacceptable and supporting such evil is out of question and so does Corbyn.



Top two comments on the mail article:



> Daily Mail in panic!. tomorrow an article telling how Corbin eat kids for breakfast. How he was a KGB agent but quitted to become a Al Qaeda member





> has he got you rattled DM?



eta: Sun readers seemingly more articulate than Daily Mail readers.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 7, 2017)

I'd like to assume that these headlines show that they really are rattled but im sure we'd see them or similar no matter how things were looking.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 7, 2017)

Doctor Carrot said:


> *I think those headlines are going to blow right up in their face. *That's treating the electorate like complete and utter mugs.



Good luck with that  

As taffboy gwyrdd said, things like that frame how stuff's being reported on the BBC etc.

And _some_ people do believe that shit, because not *every* voter is not an idiot.


----------



## Spandex (Jun 7, 2017)

This has been the weirdest fucking election campaign I can remember. 

Fingers crossed that Yougov are right and ICM are wrong...


----------



## kabbes (Jun 7, 2017)

Headlines like that work on the "mere exposure" effect, which is a major way advertising in general works.  When you have to make a decision, the brain looks for short cuts.  It can't possibly compute through thousands of data points -- we aren't built that way -- so it uses things like patterns and familiarity to drive emotional responses instead.  Being exposed to an idea a lot predisposes us to notice evidence that corroborates the idea (confirmation bias) and provides a ready-made solution to difficult decisions.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 7, 2017)

Nylock said:


> ...If you think those headlines are bad, you won't BELIEVE what they'll be like on Thursday!


Today and tomorrow is when the Tories and their press buddies will run wild sadly. It is too late for any wild claims to be rebuked and we all know that electoral lies/fraud are the new normal so nobody (or hardly anyone) will be held to account post election.


----------



## bimble (Jun 7, 2017)

Another of the DM's headlines today (online) goes like this: 
"*PM vows to rip up human rights laws in war on terror*: May pledges to extend sentences, bring in 28-day detention powers, kick foreign suspects out and crack down on extremists even if they can't be brought before the courts"

Under which this is one of the top rated comments.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 7, 2017)

It's so depressing seeing the headlines in the press, and even more depressing to know that plenty of people believe what they read without question


----------



## kabbes (Jun 7, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Labour leafleting at Dorking station again today.  I took their leaflets and am going to leave them prominently on the train when I change in one stop.
> 
> I'm impressed at their dedication.  7am leafleting in a constituency that they lost by 54% last time round -- 60% to 6%!


Libscum at the station this morning, traditionally the closest rivals to the Tories (albeit about 30% behind).  I think I recognised their actual candidate, although I swept by too quickly to be certain.  

Nobody was taking their leaflets.  Absolutely nobody.  Total contrast to the Labour canvassing.  It'll be interesting to see the final results, because the general atmosphere of this election is certainly pro-Labour, even in the most surprising areas.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 7, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I'd like to assume that these headlines show that they really are rattled but im sure we'd see them or similar no matter how things were looking.


Yep, been on Lynton's 'master-plan' calendar for weeks.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

Nearly put this in the Scotland forum, but what the Hell, it's a Westminster election.

I didn't see the TV debate between the Scottish party leaders last night, but on it apparently Nicola Sturgeon made an unverifiable claim about something she alleges Kezia Dugdale said to her in private.  Dugdale immediately denied this categorically.  Whoever you believe, it seems to be an uncharacteristic misstep from Sturgeon.  It invites the electorate to a) speculate on who it believes over something there's no proof of either way.  Why do that?  b) encourages the electorate to speculate on who it believes on independence, when Yes is still polling in the 40s and No in the 50s.  c) it seems petty.

Even if it's true, I think she fucked up here.


----------



## Idris2002 (Jun 7, 2017)




----------



## killer b (Jun 7, 2017)

It looks like a screenshot from a shit new version of streetfighter


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 7, 2017)

Diane Abbott replaced as Labour's shadow home secretary

And like, I was only saying yesterday too... 



skyscraper101 said:


> I genuinely don't think Diane Abbott is ok. I'm being completely sincere. She doesn't look like a well person. I'd written off the LBC interview as her just being ill prepared, but looking at the Sky interview, I'm starting to think there may be something wrong with her. All joking aside.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 7, 2017)

150 metres from my front door:


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 7, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> Diane Abbott replaced as Labour's shadow home secretary
> 
> And like, I was only saying yesterday too...



They're just getting all their ducks in a row before embarking on the long slog in to the general election.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 7, 2017)

killer b said:


> It looks like a screenshot from a shit new version of streetfighter


 If you can roundhouse a Tory, that's not a shit version.


----------



## 8den (Jun 7, 2017)

Remember when elections were dull as fuck?


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 7, 2017)

8den said:


> Remember when elections were dull as fuck?



The result will be.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 7, 2017)

Rob Ray said:


> Yeah reading the front page was a very "is that it?" experience, I'm surprised they've not got something a bit more impressive for the day before the election tbh.



They've already raked up all the dirt they can find at least twice.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> Diane Abbott replaced as Labour's shadow home secretary
> 
> And like, I was only saying yesterday too...



General election latest: Last day of campaigning - BBC News


----------



## kabbes (Jun 7, 2017)

This is quite interesting, in a totally anecdotal and edited way:

'Robotic' May vs 'principled' Corbyn: the UK's top 1% give their election verdicts

Something things in it are a bit depressing, but others are quite hopeful.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Nearly put this in the Scotland forum, but what the Hell, it's a Westminster election.
> 
> I didn't see the TV debate between the Scottish party leaders last night, but on it apparently Nicola Sturgeon made an unverifiable claim about something she alleges Kezia Dugdale said to her in private.  Dugdale immediately denied this categorically.  Whoever you believe, it seems to be an uncharacteristic misstep from Sturgeon.  It invites the electorate to a) speculate on who it believes over something there's no proof of either way.  Why do that?  b) encourages the electorate to speculate on who it believes on independence, when Yes is still polling in the 40s and No in the 50s.  c) it seems petty.
> 
> ...


Difficult for Dugdale to deny it, I would have thought.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> Difficult for Dugdale to deny it, I would have thought.



There's a gap between the two claims, though. There could easily have been a conversation without Dugdale having said what Sturgeon says she said. So it comes down to whom you believe.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2017)

every time i hear the name kezia i think of lovecraft's 'dreams in the witch house'


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> There's a gap between the two claims, though. There could easily have been a conversation without Dugdale having said what Sturgeon says she said. So it comes down to whom you believe.


Pretty sure Dugdale would have had something to say if the Times had published a lie when the journo printed her interview.  She's never challenged it.

Labour won't be looking forward to tomorrow in Scotland.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> Pretty sure Dugdale would have had something to say if the Times had published a lie when the journo printed her interview.  She's never challenged it.
> 
> Labour won't be looking forward to tomorrow in Scotland.


What did the Times say? Not read it.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> What did the Times say? Not read it.


Click on the twitter link.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> Click on the twitter link.


To Wings? No.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 7, 2017)

Novara interview with Paul Mason.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 7, 2017)

What's the gist of today's fascist claims about Corbyn and islamic violence? I dont want to click on the articles. Ta.


----------



## agricola (Jun 7, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> What's the gist of today's fascist claims about Corbyn and islamic violence? I dont want to click on the articles. Ta.



Basically that he gave a speech once (edit:  at a pro-Palestine event in Trafalgar Square), and that some members of al-Muhajiroun were in the crowd.  That is literally the extent of it.


----------



## killer b (Jun 7, 2017)

not sure anyone has the stamina to do the full 13 pages tbh.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 7, 2017)

agricola said:


> Basically that he gave a speech once (edit:  at a pro-Palestine event in Trafalgar Square), and that some members of al-Muhajiroun were in the crowd.  That is literally the extent of it.



Ta. Not surprised it's that's flimsy. I see the Torygraph have gone with the shocker that he has been monitored by Special Branch.


----------



## Sirena (Jun 7, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 108699
> General election latest: Last day of campaigning - BBC News


Isn't 'coming to terms with...' usually code for addiction of some sort?

Seeing the Sky interview, I suspect some sort of prescription downers...


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 7, 2017)

The right wing press have been next to silent for years about arming Saudi. They are far more complicit in apologism for islamic violence than Corbyn could even hope to be.


----------



## agricola (Jun 7, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> The right wing press have been next to silent for years about arming Saudi. They are far more complicit in apologism for islamic violence than Corbyn could even hope to be.



Appeasement is what it is.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2017)

Sirena said:


> Isn't 'coming to terms with...' usually code for addiction of some sort?
> 
> Seeing the Sky interview, I suspect some sort of prescription downers...


i thought it was something along the lines of ms or motor neurone disease.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> Click on the twitter link.


Do you mean this?



That only confirms the conversation took place. It doesn't say that Dugdale said what Sturgeon says she said. Like I said already, it comes down to taking one person's word for it over another's. It's not very clever to expect the public to take your word for it. What happens if they don't? You end up looking worse than if you hadn't said it. And that's why I think it was an uncharacteristic misstep for Sturgeon.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 7, 2017)

The lib dem battle bus is in my home town today.  It looks a bit dilapidated.  Someone has stuck a "I'm voting Labour" sticker on the side.


----------



## JTG (Jun 7, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> The lib dem battle bus is in my home town today.  It looks a bit dilapidated.  Someone has stuck a "I'm voting Labour" sticker on the side.


Slash its tyres


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 7, 2017)

Sorry that's massive but that's the extent of my IT skills.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 7, 2017)

A friend had Tory canvassers at his door and kept them talking for 15 minutes pretending to be considering a vote. Stopped them bothering anyone else that may have been more receptive to the message. Taking one for the team.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 7, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> A friend had Tory canvassers at his door and kept them talking for 15 minutes pretending to be considering a vote. Stopped them bothering anyone else that may have been more receptive to the message. Taking one for the team.


----------



## JTG (Jun 7, 2017)

Lib Dem leaflet in Bristol NW urging voters to forget the 2015 result and look at 2010 when they came second. "Jeremy Corbyn's divided Labour Party can't win here"
Desperate dishonest cunts


----------



## Whagwan (Jun 7, 2017)

JTG said:


> Lib Dem leaflet in Bristol NW urging voters to forget the 2015 result and look at 2010 when they came second. "Jeremy Corbyn's divided Labour Party can't win here"
> Desperate dishonest cunts



From the Facebook group "Lib Dem Bar charts are why I have trust issues."


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 7, 2017)

It's a logarithmic graph with a false origin, Lib Dems being dead sciency and all that.


----------



## Corax (Jun 7, 2017)

killer b said:


> that's fairly contemptuous of the cognitive abilities of our countryfolk, corax.


Sorry if it came across that way.  It wasn't meant to be dismissive of Joe Public's abilities or intelligence, but I think it's realistic to recognise that engagement with national socio-political stuff is generally a lot lower than you'd find amongst contributors to a forum like this.


----------



## killer b (Jun 7, 2017)

It may be, but it's still a more complex engagement than just 'look at this weirdo'.


----------



## Corax (Jun 7, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Yep. The prospect of another 5 years of full on neo-liberalism has almost got me to the point of forgetting my core politics, to the point where I'm cheering Corbyn on (and I do _desperately_ want Labour to stop may getting a majority).  But ultimately that's the issue, that's what's actually wrong with Corbynism.  It hasn't engaged with the disengaged and it hasn't done enough to stop dealing with the world in the way you'd expect any old institutional centre left party to behave.  Yes, he's been fire fighting a tidal wave of media hostility and treachery from his own MPs.  But ultimately Labour hasn't engaged the disengaged because it hasn't even spoken to them.


What's he meant to do, go full-on Marxist?  Can you imagine the field day the press would have with him then?

I'm not buying a replica Corbynista kit yet, but I've yet to see a viable alternative strategy.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 7, 2017)

Corax said:


> What's he meant to do, go full-on Marxist?  Can you imagine the field day the press would have with him then?
> .


No. I'm talking about it as it as, a social democratic politics - and the things that would need to have happened for Labour to have had a chance to win. What I'm saying is nothing to do with moving to the left, it's about how Corbyn/Labour/Momentum relate to and engage wit the working class.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> To Wings? No.


lol.  Not like facts, danny?

A question of values


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> lol.  Not like facts, danny?


Seems you don't like them much. The Times report (which I found in the Twitter feed of a Times journo) does not say what you seemed to think it says.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

I'm not sure I can cope with this election, tomorrow night is going to be fucking harrowing. I felt sick as a dog last time. The thought of having to do that again is too much


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Yep. The prospect of another 5 years of full on neo-liberalism has almost got me to the point of forgetting my core politics, to the point where I'm cheering Corbyn on (and I do _desperately_ want Labour to stop may getting a majority).  But ultimately that's the issue, that's what's actually wrong with Corbynism.  It hasn't engaged with the disengaged and it hasn't done enough to stop dealing with the world in the way you'd expect any old institutional centre left party to behave.  Yes, he's been fire fighting a tidal wave of media hostility and treachery from his own MPs.  But ultimately Labour hasn't engaged the disengaged because it hasn't even spoken to them.


Hasn't engaged? Are you serious?

The only people that haven't responded are morons like Class War and Ian Bone's sad little crowd


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I'm not sure I can cope with this election, tomorrow night is going to be fucking harrowing. I felt sick as a dog last time. The thought of having to do that again is too much



Don't watch it.  Simple solution really.  Just accept that its going to be a comfortable win for the tories and anything less is bonus.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Hasn't engaged? Are you serious?
> 
> The only people that haven't responded are morons like Class War and Ian Bone's sad little crowd


I'm struggling to get _anywhere_ near your logic. You think Class War should have joined in with Corbyn?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Hasn't engaged? Are you serious?
> 
> The only people that haven't responded are morons like Class War and Ian Bone's sad little crowd


so everyone else bar 20-30 people has responded and engaged. 

you're in fucking cloud cuckoo land, chuck.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Seems you don't like them much...


I like these ones.....

A question of values


----------



## inva (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Hasn't engaged? Are you serious?
> 
> The only people that haven't responded are morons like Class War and Ian Bone's sad little crowd


yeah what kind of anarchists are they!?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> I like these ones.....
> 
> A question of values


Can you show me where in the Times report (that you asked me to search out) that it says Dugdale said what Sturgeon claimed she said?  

If not, then it's simply a matter of taking one person's word or another's. And no matter how much you hope people take Nicola Sturgeon's, it's unverifiable so they might not.


----------



## killer b (Jun 7, 2017)

Going for the John Lewis Christmas Advert vibe here.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Hasn't engaged? Are you serious?
> 
> The only people that haven't responded are morons like Class War and Ian Bone's sad little crowd


And my mum.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 7, 2017)

Election 2017: Abbott says she will 'rejoin fray soon' after standing aside as shadow home secretary over illness – politics live

Statement from Thornberry:



> Just a few months ago, if you’d asked me what I thought of Theresa May, I would have said that – while I disagreed with her politics – I admired her character. I considered her stolid, strong and principled, with a basic sense of decency not always found in front-line politics.
> 
> Well what a difference seven weeks make. Since calling the election, she has been well and truly shown up as tetchy and thin-skinned about criticism, weak and unstable under pressure, cowardly when faced with a challenge, and deceitful when it suits her political ends.
> 
> ...



Jihadist-funding friends in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, wow!


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2017)

> At around the 1 minute mark in the video he asks the public "do you really want Jeremy Corbyn to be Prime Minister?" And, well, it was a resounding YES from almost everyone ther


----------



## kabbes (Jun 7, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Election 2017: Abbott says she will 'rejoin fray soon' after standing aside as shadow home secretary over illness – politics live
> 
> 
> 
> Jihadist-funding friends in Saudi Arabia and Qatar, wow!


For those who might find it difficult to find: it was Emily Thornberry saying that.

Thornberry has really gone up in my estimation during this campaign.  I thought poorly of her beforehand, but she's been bright and articulate and had a lot of good things to say.


----------



## Corax (Jun 7, 2017)

editor said:


>



Moderator - "Biggest cheer of the night!" lol


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Can you show me where in the Times report (that you asked me to search out) that it says Dugdale said what Sturgeon claimed she said?
> 
> If not, then it's simply a matter of taking one person's word or another's. And no matter how much you hope people take Nicola Sturgeon's, it's unverifiable so they might not.


Firstly...didn't ask you to search for anything.

Secondly, don't actually give a shit what you believe on the matter.  You didn't see the debate.   When you say "Dugdale immediately denied this categorically." you're talking utter garbage.  Lying basically.



You posted "Dugdale immediately denied this categorically."

You're a liar.  She did no such thing.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> Firstly...didn't ask you to search for anything.
> 
> Secondly, don't actually give a shit what you believe on the matter.  You didn't see the debate.   When you say "Dugdale immediately denied this categorically." you're talking utter garbage.  Lying basically.
> 
> ...



I said I hadn't watched the debate and said _apparently_ this had happened. 

However, rather than pointing out where in the Times report it confirms Dugdale said what Sturgeon says she said, you go ahead and call me a liar if it makes you happy. 

But it might help other readers if you can show where in the Times report people should be looking.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)




----------



## belboid (Jun 7, 2017)

Well, this is annoying. I'm trying to make some calls for Labour, and they give me a wide range of options, including my ultra safe seat. But none for Hallam, so I can't campaign against Clegg 

In slightly better news, it won't let me campaign for Angela Smith either.


----------



## little_legs (Jun 7, 2017)




----------



## tommers (Jun 7, 2017)

Jesus.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 7, 2017)

killer b said:


> Going for the John Lewis Christmas Advert vibe here.



Not a patch on the Loach one


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I said I hadn't watched the debate and said _apparently_ this had happened.
> 
> However, rather than pointing out where in the Times report it confirms Dugdale said what Sturgeon says she said, you go ahead and call me a liar if it makes you happy.
> 
> But it might help other readers if you can show where in the Times report people should be looking.


I'm not _calling_ you a liar...I'm just making the point that you are a liar.  The video clearly shows no such 'immediate' and 'categorical' denial.  And you're not man enough to admit it.   

But yes...it makes me happy.  And I had a little laugh when squirrel liked your post, too.


----------



## D'wards (Jun 7, 2017)




----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> I'm not _calling_ you a liar...I'm just making the point that you are a liar.  The video clearly shows no such 'immediate' and 'categorical' denial.  And you're not man enough to admit it.
> 
> But yes...it makes me happy.  And I had a little laugh when squirrel liked your post, too.


I'm not "man enough to admit what"? That I hadn't seen the debate? I prefaced my first post on the matter with that caveat. I further said this had "apparently" happened. So perhaps you can apply your forensic truthiness to that. 

However, I note you still aren't pointing out where it says in the Times report that Dugdale said what Sturgeon said she said.

And that's the point I was making: it's one person's word against another's. 

Of course, you're completely ignoring that. Because it's a mild criticism of Sturgeon. And you don't like that.


----------



## J.C.Decaux (Jun 7, 2017)

,




Pickman's model said:


> . But it will be a fucking shit five years if tm wins big



IMHO, More terrori_sm will be on the menu, put it like this, them load of Kuntz are in bed with the Saudi's, and along with the usual suspects, they wanna feck up Iran.

If there is a God up there, may he have mercy on their blood soaked souls._


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

inva said:


> yeah what kind of anarchists are they!?


From what I've seen, shit ones. Though I've no idea if you're question is sincere. 

If they cared about the working class they'd be voting Labour, even if they have to pinch their nose while doing so. You don't have to like it, you just have to recognise that the alternative is a world of shit.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I'm struggling to get _anywhere_ near your logic. You think Class War should have joined in with Corbyn?


Nowhere did I say anything of the sort. They don't have to ally with him, they just have to vote him to get the bastards out.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 7, 2017)

D'wards said:


> View attachment 108724


Thatcher in the Rye


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> From what I've seen, shit ones. Though I've no idea if you're question is sincere.
> 
> If they cared about the working class they'd be voting Labour, even if they have to pinch their nose while doing so. You don't have to like it, you just have to recognise that the alternative is a world of shit.


The world is shit. If you think a Labour government is the solution you can't recall 1997-2010 The only saving grace they have is they're not the tories.


----------



## inva (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> From what I've seen, shit ones. Though I've no idea if you're question is sincere.
> 
> If they cared about the working class they'd be voting Labour, even if they have to pinch their nose while doing so. You don't have to like it, you just have to recognise that the alternative is a world of shit.


i am a socialist, which is why I can't support the Labour Party. but i agree anarchists have got no excuse.


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 7, 2017)

little_legs said:


>


We need to talk about Diane Abbott. Now. (EXPLICIT CONTENT)


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

inva said:


> i am a socialist, which is why I can't support the Labour Party. but i agree anarchists have got no excuse.


Why can't you support voting as a socialist?


----------



## Sirena (Jun 7, 2017)

The final Labour campaign video.  

A really nice thing: not mawkish, not jingoistic, not patronising...


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 7, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> The world is shit. If you think a Labour government is the solution you can't recall 1997-2007. The only saving grace they have is they're not the tories.


It's one thing to think Labour as a solution. It's another to lend it a vote for the time being.
There is an impetous right now for political discourse to veer towards the left in a way that was impossible 8 weeks ago. A Corbyn led Labour victory can help in that direction.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2017)

MochaSoul said:


> It's one thing to think Labour as a solution. It's another to lend it a vote for the time being.
> There is an impetous right now for political discourse to veer towards the left in a way that was impossible 8 weeks ago. A Corbyn led Labour victory can help in that direction.


yeh. the left. but how far left? the thing is of course that anarchists oppose the state and the labour party rather support it. i don't know how you propose to square that particular circle.


----------



## inva (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Why can't you support voting as a socialist?


to be exact i didn't say I can't support voting, I said I can't support the Labour Party. it is a party with a long and evil history and which is violently opposed to all the principles of socialism as I understand it.

plus a single vote may not take much effort, but if it is especially important that Labour wins the election then is simply casting a vote sufficient? and if not, well that's not my politics or where I would want to focus what little resource I have to offer. the time, money and energy poured into the Labour Party could be put to far better use as far as I am concerned.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

inva said:


> to be exact i didn't say I can't support voting, I said I can't support the Labour Party. it is a party with a long and evil history and which is violently opposed to all the principles of socialism as I understand it.
> 
> plus a single vote may not take much effort, but if it is especially important that Labour wins the election then is simply casting a vote sufficient? and if not, well that's not my politics or where I would want to focus what little resource I have to offer. the time, money and energy poured into the Labour Party could be put to far better use as far as I am concerned.


Ok, so the labour party has a shady history.

So what?


----------



## inva (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Ok, so the labour party has a shady history.
> 
> So what?


so I don't want to vote for it, which is what you asked me about


----------



## killer b (Jun 7, 2017)

your canvassing technique needs a little work Who PhD


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

inva said:


> so I don't want to vote for it, which is what you asked me about


that wasn't my question. 

My question was: so what if they have a shady past compared to the alternative?


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

killer b said:


> your canvassing technique needs a little work Who PhD


All I care about is getting the tories out. 

We cannot have five more years of their hell.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 7, 2017)

My possibly naive and misguided position is that I'm not voting for the Labour Party of 1997 to 2010. I'm voting very specifically for the party of 2015 to now, which feels like for the first time in my lifetime is proposing a shift towards the kind of politics I'm interested in. I don't kid myself that Corbyn is offering anything more radical than fairly standard European social democracy but you only have to look at the reaction he's received to see that sadly in this country even that would be a radical shift. I do sincerely believe that it would be a shift that would transform a lot of lives for the better. 

I think it would be much easier to start demanding more radical politics when ideas of solidarity and more collective action were more sown into the societal fabric. I think it's much easier for people to find each other and start fighting when they aren't scrabbling around for the basics of life. I think it would lead me to hope and work for better. 

Stump speech over. So sad it's unlikely.


----------



## killer b (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> All I care about is getting the tories out.


in which case: your canvassing technique needs a little work.


----------



## Sirena (Jun 7, 2017)

Nice graffiti Camden.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 7, 2017)

killer b said:


> He's just read the news, like everyone else. They don't get any secret info via tory backchannels.



Of course not.

They get the secret info down at the Masonic lodge!


----------



## inva (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> that wasn't my question.
> 
> My question was: so what if they have a shady past compared to the alternative?


I was objecting to the present day Labour Party as much as its past forms.
so then the follow up question I guess is, so what if they have a shady present compared to the alternative? by which I'm assuming you mean the Tories. Well I'm not voting for them or anyone else either, but my answer would be that as a socialist I necessarily believe in an alternative that cannot be achieved through parliament and which the Labour Party is an active opponent of. so that's what I try to direct my effort towards as best as I can.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 7, 2017)

Sirena said:


> Isn't 'coming to terms with...' usually code for addiction of some sort?



No.  Next!



> Seeing the Sky interview, I suspect some sort of prescription downers...



That's because you're a muppet.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

inva said:


> I was objecting to the present day Labour Party as much as its past forms.
> so then the follow up question I guess is, so what if they have a shady present compared to the alternative? by which I'm assuming you mean the Tories. Well I'm not voting for them or anyone else either, but my answer would be that as a socialist I necessarily believe in an alternative that cannot be achieved through parliament and which the Labour Party is an active opponent of. so that's what I try to direct my effort towards as best as I can.


Choosing not to vote doesn't work though, it just enables the Tories.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Hasn't engaged? Are you serious?
> 
> The only people that haven't responded are morons like Class War and Ian Bone's sad little crowd



Class War *IS* Ian Bone's little crowd, you fucking Noddy!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 7, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> Firstly...didn't ask you to search for anything.
> 
> Secondly, don't actually give a shit what you believe on the matter.  You didn't see the debate.   When you say "Dugdale immediately denied this categorically." you're talking utter garbage.  Lying basically.
> 
> ...




Typical Dexter aggression and bullishness, along with typical Dexter mis-comprehension.  I'd say that you're a bit of a cunt, but cunts are useful.  You're just a gobshite.


----------



## mx wcfc (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Choosing not to vote doesn't work though, it just enables the Tories.


Spot fucking on.  Every non vote is a vote for the privatisation of the NHS, for more tax cuts for the rich, for less money into education and care.  We have to get out and vote for whoever 
can beat the Tories.  And there is no excuse now for anyone to refuse to vote Labour because they are not left wing enough.


----------



## inva (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Choosing not to vote doesn't work though, it just enables the Tories.


and voting for Labour enables Labour, which as I've explained isn't something I want to do.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Why can't you support voting as a socialist?



Because Labour aren't socialist, however much the media try to paint Corbyn as a latter-day Stalin.


----------



## agricola (Jun 7, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Because Labour aren't socialist, however much the media try to paint Corbyn as a latter-day Stalin.



It is a shame that he isn't - I think loads of people on this board and elsewhere would have loved to go to Mexico and infiltrate the circle of exiles around John Woodcock.


----------



## belboid (Jun 7, 2017)

I've only just found out who all my local candidates are! Labour and Green excluded. 

There's a libscum I've always wanted to vote against, the WRP and the SDP. The SDP are standing all across Sheffield for some reason.


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 7, 2017)

heh


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

inva said:


> and voting for Labour enables Labour, which as I've explained isn't something I want to do.


Yes, that's why I said your plan enables the tories. There's only two outcomes (barring the highly implausible). So which is worse in your opinion? Labour, I presume.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Yes, that's why I said your plan enables the tories. There's only two outcomes (barring the highly implausible). So which is worse in your opinion? Labour, I presume.



What's the point of pursuing this line of arguing? I'm voting Labour, I've got out there and I have canvassed for Labour but there are a good number of people on here with well thought out reasons as to why they cannot or will not do either of those things and you aren't going to convince them otherwise like this. In any case, left of Labour but won't vote Labour isn't really a large demographic which is worth pursuing for many votes..


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

J Ed said:


> What's the point of pursuing this line of arguing? I'm voting Labour, I've got out there and I have canvassed for Labour but there are a good number of people on here with well thought out reasons as to why they cannot or will not do either of those things and you aren't going to convince them otherwise like this. In any case, left of Labour but won't vote Labour isn't really a large demographic which is worth pursuing for many votes..


I haven't seen a reason put forward. I've just been told "i'm not voting labour", that's it.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 7, 2017)

BTW, since it is almost certainly about to be dashed I'd like to just say that I have enjoyed the atmosphere of almost daring to be hopeful with all of you on here the past couple of weeks. It has been fun, genuinely nice, to be on the side of people that I've moaned at and rowed with in other threads. I respect the reasons that people give for not voting Labour, and I think that it must be very frustrating for them to see so many of us going down what they must see as a political dead end. Thank you for not giving us too hard a time.


----------



## 03gills (Jun 7, 2017)




----------



## inva (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Yes, that's why I said your plan enables the tories. There's only two outcomes (barring the highly implausible). So which is worse in your opinion? Labour, I presume.


I will humour you and gaze into the future to let you know that with Labour achieving a majority in the general election and attempting to implement a few mild reforms, there is a retaliation of capital flight, an attack on sterling along with relentless attacks from the right and sabotage from within the PLP leads to a big crisis and Corbyn's government collapses. There follows a vicious reaction resulting in the next election a hard right Tory government even more vile than what we have now and the total discrediting of left wing ideas as they are proven totally 'unworkable'.


----------



## binka (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I haven't seen a reason put forward. I've just been told "i'm not voting labour", that's it.


The argument has been had about 50 million times on this forum in the last couple of months and I don't think anyone's interested in having it again


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

Fez909 said:


> heh



Don't normally have any time for fortune tellers, but that was class!


----------



## teqniq (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I haven't seen a reason put forward. I've just been told "i'm not voting labour", that's it.


Erm... So someone saying 'I'm a socialist and Labour aren't isn't a reason? To name but one put forward.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 7, 2017)

inva said:


> I will humour you and gaze into the future to let you know that with Labour achieving a majority in the general election and attempting to implement a few mild reforms, there is a retaliation of capital flight, an attack on sterling along with relentless attacks from the right and sabotage from within the PLP leads to a big crisis and Corbyn's government collapses. There follows a vicious reaction resulting in the next election a hard right Tory government even more vile than what we have now and the total discrediting of left wing ideas as they are proven totally 'unworkable'.




Apart from all that though, happy days innit?


----------



## mauvais (Jun 7, 2017)

inva said:


> I will humour you and gaze into the future to let you know that with Labour achieving a majority in the general election and attempting to implement a few mild reforms, there is a retaliation of capital flight, an attack on sterling along with relentless attacks from the right and sabotage from within the PLP leads to a big crisis and Corbyn's government collapses. There follows a vicious reaction resulting in the next election a hard right Tory government even more vile than what we have now and the total discrediting of left wing ideas as they are proven totally 'unworkable'.


And as if that weren't enough, in seven billion years the Sun will run out of hydrogen and collapse, which will presumably bring an end - amongst other things - to Tunnocks teacake production. It's hard to know what the point of getting out of bed is any more.


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 7, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh. the left. but how far left? the thing is of course that anarchists oppose the state and the labour party rather support it. i don't know how you propose to square that particular circle.



You misunderstand me. I don't. Only last Friday I attended a vigil for the dead of the DWP. Knowing how close I have been to being one of the depicted on the posters allows me to take a pragmatic stance on this. I admire principles and principled people. But I stop before I put my principles ahead of people's lives.


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> I haven't seen a reason put forward. I've just been told "i'm not voting labour", that's it.



They've been made many times, when you weren't banned posting.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Erm... So someone saying 'I'm a socialist and Labour aren't isn't a reason? To name but one put forward.


More who gcse than who phd


----------



## agricola (Jun 7, 2017)

mauvais said:


> And as if that weren't enough, in seven billion years the Sun will run out of hydrogen and collapse, which will presumably bring an end - amongst other things - to Tunnocks teacake production. It's hard to know what the point of getting out of bed is any more.



It will all be the fault of the poor.  In fact, I think its scientific fact that 70% of the individual poor is comprised of water, of which a third is therefore hydrogen - so if we were to fire all of the poor into the Sun, over a long-term of around seven billion years, logically we would get an extra two billion years with which to continue to help hard-working families to get on.  That people would oppose families being helped in this way just shows the sort of people they are.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 7, 2017)

MochaSoul said:


> You misunderstand me. I don't. Only last Friday I attended a vigil for the dead of the DWP. Knowing how close I have been to being one of the depicted on the posters allows me to take a pragmatic stance on this. I admire principles and principled people. But I stop before I put my principles ahead of people's lives.



I think that your point about the value of a Labour victory, or good showing at least, on the periphery of the EU was a point very well made as well. There is a reason why Rajoy was one of the chief thorns in the side of Greece, he knew that if they were seen to get anything resembling a civilised deal then Iglesias would have his job.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

mauvais said:


> And as if that weren't enough, in seven billion years the Sun will run out of hydrogen and collapse, which will presumably bring an end - amongst other things - to Tunnocks teacake production. It's hard to know what the point of getting out of bed is any more.


Tunnocks are Tories.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Tunnocks are Tories.


Oh. Well roll on solar core exhaustion, frankly.


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 7, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I think that your point about the value of a Labour victory, or good showing at least, on the periphery of the EU was a point very well made as well. There is a reason why Rajoy was one of the chief thorns in the side of Greece, he knew that if they were seen to get anything resembling a civilised deal then Iglesias would have his job.



History doesn't happen all at once either. The Portuguese Communist Party has recently put out a leaflet about leaving the Euro. Unthinkable, until the left resurged at the last elections. Leftward direction in political discourse in the wider community. I don't say "anything to enable that" but a Corbyn led Labour victory is not just "anything".


----------



## J Ed (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Tunnocks are Tories.



ffs


----------



## treelover (Jun 7, 2017)

Guardian is reporting that the Tories have raised 1.6 milllion in the last week of campaigning, what are they spending it on, its not rallies,

i reckon its the 'dark' campaign, FB ads, you tube, etc, this helped them win in the marginals last time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2017)

MochaSoul said:


> You misunderstand me. I don't. Only last Friday I attended a vigil for the dead of the DWP. Knowing how close I have been to being one of the depicted on the posters allows me to take a pragmatic stance on this. I admire principles and principled people. But I stop before I put my principles ahead of people's lives.


Yeh. I can't vote Labour because of what I see them doing to people's lives


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Erm... So someone saying 'I'm a socialist and Labour aren't isn't a reason? To name but one put forward.


Do you think that's good enough, given the circumstances?

If that's your reason then so be it. I don't agree.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> They've been made many times, when you weren't banned posting.


another one for the ignore list. take your gaslighting shit and fuck off


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 7, 2017)

One thing I've noted from this campaign is that the establishment has never been more in plain sight. Stuff like the press has always been obviously slanted, but I expected a bit more balance from the BBC etc.

There was a story here about underdogs rising to the challenge, about people power, about an alternative being offered, yet nobody has really run with that. We saw how in the US elections the 'outsider' Trump was feted, given huge coverage because it was a story, which ultimately propelled him to power. Corbyn has been mostly ignored, almost as if they're being deliberately careful to avoid a 'Trump effect'.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Do you think that's good enough, given the circumstances?
> 
> If that's your reason then so be it. I don't agree.


You don't have to agree.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 7, 2017)

inva said:


> I will humour you and gaze into the future to let you know that with Labour achieving a majority in the general election and attempting to implement a few mild reforms, there is a retaliation of capital flight, an attack on sterling along with relentless attacks from the right and sabotage from within the PLP leads to a big crisis and Corbyn's government collapses. There follows a vicious reaction resulting in the next election a hard right Tory government even more vile than what we have now and the total discrediting of left wing ideas as they are proven totally 'unworkable'.


so on the basis of supposition we should not vote at all?Those mild reforms will mean the difference between life and death for thousands


----------



## teqniq (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> Do you think that's good enough, given the circumstances?
> 
> If that's your reason then so be it. I don't agree.


Not mine, other posters. Just pointing out that people have given reasons, therefore your claim was inaccurate.


----------



## treelover (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD

Yes, especially disabled and sick people many who are terrified of the result.

Is there an old saying, 'there is only an inch of difference between the tories and labour, but in that inch i can breathe'

though of course this time its a chasm.


----------



## weepiper (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Tunnocks are Tories.


To the dismay of everyone in this household.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 7, 2017)

treelover said:


> i reckon its the 'dark' campaign, FB ads, you tube, etc, this helped them win in the marginals last time.



They are apparently all over YouTube videos. 

This is quite interesting (but tangential): New study finds that one in 10 news sources shared online before the UK election was “junk news” 

I used to spend a lot of time - too fucking much by a long chalk to be honest - on Facebook and I left it the day before the Brexit vote because I just couldn't take any more of the vile, hateful propoganda that was being shared by right wing friends, a lot of it - I suspect - from targetted posts. If the election is being fought on Facebook then the Tories will probably do well there.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 7, 2017)

All I ask is, can we have just the one GE results thread tomorrow/Friday please?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> All I ask is, can we have just the one GE results thread tomorrow/Friday please?


Dedicated polling day/results thread. Good idea.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Dedicated polling day/results thread. Good idea.



I don't care who starts it, but just the ONE!


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 7, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. I can't vote Labour because of what I see them doing to people's lives


History doesn't happen all at once. The whole histories of all labour movements around the world show precisely that... and more: it's sometimes forwards and others backwards.


----------



## chilango (Jun 7, 2017)

...and just results and results related comment too.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I don't care who starts it, but just the ONE!


You do it.


----------



## inva (Jun 7, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> so on the basis of supposition we should not vote at all?Those mild reforms will mean the difference between life and death for thousands


you asked me to make that supposition by asking which would be worse. I can only suppose the answer to that, and that's what I did.

if I can make one extra point. in the event that Labour formed a government I think it's fair to say it would need some serious working class militancy to resist attacks from capital and secure reforms in our favour. so, seeing as I, as small as my individual contributions may be, am trying to help build a more powerful, self confident working class politics then you might say I'd be helping save the arses of the Labour left should they get power. in which case though it'd be incidental to my own purpose you'd be welcome


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> You do it.



I'll be on the 0415 train to Gatwick, so no chance. chilango is good at these so I nominate him. Maybe prime it beforehand - so it's ready to go chilango ? We don't want 10 pages of unrelated shite, just results Sir


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I'll be on the 0415 train to Gatwick, so no chance. chilango is good at these so I nominate him. Maybe prime it beforehand - so it's ready to go chilango ? We don't want 10 pages of unrelated shite, just results Sir


Start it now but put an embargo in the OP.


----------



## chilango (Jun 7, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I'll be on the 0415 train to Gatwick, so no chance. chilango is good at these so I nominate him. Maybe prime it beforehand - so it's ready to go chilango ? We don't want 10 pages of unrelated shite, just results Sir



No point starting it 'till polls close though.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 7, 2017)

chilango said:


> No point starting it 'till polls close though.



I think you should have a mod status for the duration - any non result crap/debate/beef you can delete


----------



## JimW (Jun 7, 2017)

Estimated declaration times: UK general election 2017: estimated declaration times by majority


----------



## chilango (Jun 7, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I think you should have a mod status for the duration - any non result crap/debate/beef you can delete



The way the polls are looking I'll be in bed by 10:15ish. It'll be absolute anarchy on the thread...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 7, 2017)

Fuck the poles


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

JimW said:


> Estimated declaration times: UK general election 2017: estimated declaration times by majority


That list isn't in chronological order! No wonder people like me give up on fucking lists.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> That list isn't in chronological order! No wonder people like me give up on fucking lists.



If you click on declaration time you can get it in order


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Fuck the poles


Guy I knew years ago was rumoured to have two Polish girlfriends (it was true). They called him The Hammock. Don't look at me like that, I didn't make up the nickname!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 7, 2017)

MochaSoul said:


> History doesn't happen all at once. The whole histories of all labour movements around the world show precisely that... and more: it's sometimes forwards and others backwards.


How strange that for so much of the past quarter century in e.g. hackney, haringey, islington, camden, lambeth etc it has been the labour council shitting on the people. At some point the exception becomes the rule: and it's not as tho history has much positive to say about national labour governments of the past 50 years either, the three there've been.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 7, 2017)

JimW said:


> Estimated declaration times: UK general election 2017: estimated declaration times by majority



It's not entirely accurate, it's got the Tories winning Tooting in 2015.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> If you click on declaration time you can get it in order


Did you watch YouTube for that cheat?


----------



## magneze (Jun 7, 2017)

JimW said:


> Estimated declaration times: UK general election 2017: estimated declaration times by majority


Not sure what's going on there. As an example:

574 Tooting 01:30 23734 44.22 Conservative UKIP

Err ... no


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Did you watch YouTube for that cheat?



Facebook Live'd it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> Facebook Live'd it.


Young people with their apps.


----------



## binka (Jun 7, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> All I ask is, can we have just the one GE results thread tomorrow/Friday please?


Don't we need one for those of us watching it on a stream as it goes out live on HBO and then another for those waiting until it's on Sky Atlantic the following night?


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 7, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm not "man enough to admit what"? That I hadn't seen the debate? I prefaced my first post on the matter with that caveat. I further said this had "apparently" happened. So perhaps you can apply your forensic truthiness to that.
> 
> However, I note you still aren't pointing out where it says in the Times report that Dugdale said what Sturgeon said she said.
> 
> ...


Absolute crap from start to finish.   I was talking about your 'immediate and categoric denial' from the (current) labour leader Dugdale.  

tbf...had a little chortle when vp jumped in and called me a cunt though.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 7, 2017)

No!


----------



## binka (Jun 7, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> No!


Spoilers in tags at least?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 7, 2017)

binka said:


> Spoilers in tags at least?



All I ask is for ONE results thread. Don't let me down.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> Absolute crap from start to finish.   I was talking about your 'immediate and categoric denial' from the (current) labour leader Dugdale.
> 
> tbf...had a little chortle when vp jumped in and called me a cunt though.


Yes, that's what the reports said. But like my first post on the matter said: I hadn't seen it. And I used the word "apparently" to reinforce the fact I was commenting second hand. 

I found VP's comments most perspicacious, though, given the way you have completely avoided anything put to you. 

The record stands. Anyone reading the thread in order can see very well what's been said. I'm satisfied with that.


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 7, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> How strange that for so much of the past quarter century in e.g. hackney, haringey, islington, camden, lambeth etc it has been the labour council shitting on the people. At some point the exception becomes the rule: and it's not as tho history has much positive to say about national labour governments of the past 50 years either, the three there've been.


Fine. You can keep the bike.


----------



## JimW (Jun 7, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> All I ask is for ONE results thread. Don't let me down.


I've let you down with some shonky timings already!


----------



## teqniq (Jun 7, 2017)




----------



## Sue (Jun 7, 2017)

weepiper said:


> To the dismay of everyone in this household.



(((Caramel Wafers)))


----------



## imposs1904 (Jun 8, 2017)

teqniq said:


>




That's the first time I've seen Tom Watson in this election.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 8, 2017)

Buzzfeed, that bastion of political reporting, have a handy guide about how the night will go in terms of what happens when and what to look out for: Your Definitive Guide To General Election Night


----------



## Fingers (Jun 8, 2017)

Never had a ticket but fuck. Blagged myself in and it was like a Trump rally without racist wankers. After, Islington pubs were full on party. More tomorrow...


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

chilango said:


> ...and just results and results related comment too.



If Lab win I'm starting at least 10 threads about it.


----------



## maomao (Jun 8, 2017)

Shitty weather doesn't  bode well.


----------



## free spirit (Jun 8, 2017)

maomao said:


> Shitty weather doesn't  bode well.


It's not supposed to be raining solidly all day, some dry spells later on so hopefully people will come out after the rain stops and it won't have too much impact.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

Does anyone still believe Mi5 don't control the weather??


----------



## Supine (Jun 8, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Fuck the poles



Racist!!!


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 8, 2017)

Had a very depressing evening in my local social club (ex "workingman's club").  Telly was on and almost everyone was cheering Teresa May and slagging off Corbyn .  I heard comments like "God help the country if Corbyn gets in", "terrorist lover" and that kind of crap.  It seemed as though they'd swallowed the Sun and Mail headlines completely.

Went home feeling very fed up.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm off to vote labour at 7am


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Had a very depressing evening in my local social club (ex "workingman's club").  Telly was on and almost everyone was cheering Teresa May and slagging off Corbyn .  I heard comments like "God help the country if Corbyn gets in", "terrorist lover" and that kind of crap.  It seemed as though they'd swallowed the Sun and Mail headlines completely.
> 
> Went home feeling very fed up.



Had a few conversation along these lines yesterday too. Have a very bad feeling about today.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 8, 2017)

I heard a young lad saying he was going to vote for corbyn but the way may handled london bridge by sending the SAS in he was going to vote for her, 

I pointed out to him that she was the one who cut the police in the first place and his reply was

Oh yeah...

Whether my words had any real resonance I don't know


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 8, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> I'm off to vote labour at 7am


Same. Get a nice early lead for Comrade Corbyn to put the shits up the blue rinse Tories


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> I heard a young lad saying he was going to vote for corbyn but the way may handled london bridge by sending the SAS in he was going to vote for her,
> 
> I pointed out to him that she was the one who cut the police in the first place and his reply was
> 
> ...


My suspicion is that he will not vote at all.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

kabbes said:


> My suspicion is that he will not vote at all.



Like a lot of young people...


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jun 8, 2017)

It's hard to muster up the energy to vote and there's always something better to do.

I'm in a conservative safe seat and though I started the election determined to vote the last couple of days I've spent in a fug of 'what's the fucking point?' She's not going to lose a 10k majority and it's not like any of the parties have really bothered campaigning around here. The various social media sites for greens and labour are well out of date.

So yeah, I don't blame young people for not voting, I'll vote but fuck me it's like rolling a stone up hill.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 8, 2017)

Voted already 

*we can do this.....





*probably not but lets at least think we can today


----------



## Libertad (Jun 8, 2017)

imposs1904 said:


> That's the first time I've seen Tom Watson in this election.



Who?


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 8, 2017)

Libertad said:


> Who?


----------



## Libertad (Jun 8, 2017)

Ranbay said:


>



Right, gotcha.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes, that's what the reports said. But like my first post on the matter said: I hadn't seen it. And I used the word "apparently" to reinforce the fact I was commenting second hand.
> 
> I found VP's comments most perspicacious, though, given the way you have completely avoided anything put to you.
> 
> The record stands. Anyone reading the thread in order can see very well what's been said. I'm satisfied with that.


Absolutely.  They'll see that you posted some made up garbage and when challenged on it you hummed and hawed then 'liked' a post where some no mark who knows fuck all about scots politics jumped in and called me a cunt.

Satisfaction all around.  What do you think the socialist vote up here will be today?  Better or worse than the massive 895 you got last time?   Carry on the good work.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> some no mark who knows fuck all about scots politics jumped in and called me a cunt.


Proof that there's no need to know anything about Scottish politics to know a cunt when they present themselves


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> I'm in a conservative safe seat and though I started the election determined to vote the last couple of days I've spent in a fug of 'what's the fucking point?' She's not going to lose a 10k majority and it's not like any of the parties have really bothered campaigning around here. The various social media sites for greens and labour are well out of date.



If you're not in the 100 or so target seats, no love for you.

A member of my family received this line by a canvasser last week 'I'll put you down as Tory scum then' so to be honest you probably aren't missing anything.


----------



## StoneRoad (Jun 8, 2017)

I had intended to vote early today, but it has been raining since I woke up (a couple of hours ago). Walking round to my polling station will have to wait for a while. Forecast is for sunny intervals / light showers by this afternoon, starting earlier than predicted previously.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 8, 2017)

treelover said:


> Who PhD
> 
> Yes, especially disabled and sick people many who are terrified of the result.
> 
> ...


Absolutely, and I cannot understand how people can - it seems to me - sacrifice a potentially positive outcome, no matter how slight, on the altar of personal ideology.

I get the reasons why people don't want to vote labour. I get why people hate this system. So do I. 

But what else is there, right now? We don't have a revolution in the making, we haven't even had a poll tax riot sstyle uprising in 7 years of unprecedented oppression. Not even the Bedroom tax inspired that response. 

This is why I'm highly critical of the people I mentioned; Class War and the like. I don't disagree with their overall politics at all. But their attitude and approach to this is all wrong IMO.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 8, 2017)

inva said:


> you asked me to make that supposition by asking which would be worse. I can only suppose the answer to that, and that's what I did.
> 
> if I can make one extra point. in the event that Labour formed a government I think it's fair to say it would need some serious working class militancy to resist attacks from capital and secure reforms in our favour. so, seeing as I, as small as my individual contributions may be, am trying to help build a more powerful, self confident working class politics then you might say I'd be helping save the arses of the Labour left should they get power. in which case though it'd be incidental to my own purpose you'd be welcome


Fair enough.

I have never seen a vote for corbyn as excluding buildling a revolutionary/working class militant future. I think we can do both, I think we have to.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> What do you think the socialist vote up here will be today?  Better or worse than the massive 895 you got last time?   Carry on the good work.


 What the fuck are you on about? Do you still think I'm SSP or something? 

This is what happens, folks, when you are so blinkered that you can't read what people are saying. "He was mildly critical of this one thing so he must be a member of that other party".

You look ridiculous.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 8, 2017)

limp dems out in force being ignored round wimbledon station this morning


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

Puddy_Tat said:


> limp dems out in force being ignored round wimbledon station this morning


Yeh but cops will be there in a moment if anyone decks them


----------



## bimble (Jun 8, 2017)

Not a single libdem leaflet has appeared through my door (here in Lambeth, the remoaniest borough in London). They must be skint? We even got a Tory one yesterday. Handfuls of Labour leaflets every other day for the last couple of weeks.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> What the fuck are you on about? Do you still think I'm SSP or something?
> 
> This is what happens, folks, when you are so blinkered that you can't read what people are saying. "He was mildly critical of this one thing so he must be a member of that other party".
> 
> You look ridiculous.


What folks are you talking to?  The ones that jump in shouting cunt?


danny la rouge said:


> I want independence as means to an end. I'm a socialist...


Anyway...bored with you.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN  It's telling that you think being a socialist means that you must be some other party than SNP. That says everything anyone needs to know about you. So thanks for that.

Also, thanks for cheering me up. I was feeling a bit glum but I've still got a smile on my face about you thinking I'm a Trot.


----------



## stethoscope (Jun 8, 2017)

You really are most odd Dexter.


----------



## The Boy (Jun 8, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> You really are most odd Dexter.



Just wait till he start talking about bowel movements...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> Anyway...bored with you.


If that's the case perhaps you should gtfo urban


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

The Boy said:


> Just wait till he start talking about bowel movements...


He's not still describing his bowel movements in nauseating detail is he?


----------



## Santino (Jun 8, 2017)

There's no need for a pile-on.


----------



## 1927 (Jun 8, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> I heard a young lad saying he was going to vote for corbyn but the way may handled london bridge by sending the SAS in he was going to vote for her,
> 
> I pointed out to him that she was the one who cut the police in the first place and his reply was
> 
> ...


That would only be valid if increased numbers reduced terrorist attacks. It doesn't seem to have helped the French much.


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

Puddy_Tat said:


> limp dems out in force being ignored round wimbledon station this morning



Best thing about today is I won't have to see, hear or reading about Tim Farron's views on gay sex.

Oh, that and toast.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 8, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> It's hard to muster up the energy to vote and there's always something better to do.
> 
> I'm in a conservative safe seat and though I started the election determined to vote the last couple of days I've spent in a fug of 'what's the fucking point?' She's not going to lose a 10k majority and it's not like any of the parties have really bothered campaigning around here. The various social media sites for greens and labour are well out of date.
> 
> So yeah, I don't blame young people for not voting, I'll vote but fuck me it's like rolling a stone up hill.


Good to see someone going that extra mile as they say


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 8, 2017)

The Three Scenarios For The U.K. Election

A prediction - or three - from America! 

It's hammering it down in Cardiff for what that's worth. Boo!


----------



## Brainaddict (Jun 8, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> It's hard to muster up the energy to vote and there's always something better to do.
> 
> I'm in a conservative safe seat and though I started the election determined to vote the last couple of days I've spent in a fug of 'what's the fucking point?' She's not going to lose a 10k majority and it's not like any of the parties have really bothered campaigning around here. The various social media sites for greens and labour are well out of date.
> 
> So yeah, I don't blame young people for not voting, I'll vote but fuck me it's like rolling a stone up hill.


I hear people saying it's not worth the time to vote and I think, stop deluding yourself, you've had wanks that lasted longer than it will take you to get to the polling station and back. You'll waste time this year on stuff that isn't even as fun as wanking, or as productive. Just fucking vote.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 8, 2017)

If the Tories win on the basis of being seen to be tougher/more reliable on terrorism, then those three recent attacks will have killed a lot more than thirty-odd people once the NHS is run down and split up and many people are left without access to decent healthcare. 

Labour had reasonable momentum before the Manchester attack and were making headway on domestic issues, but the narrative was shifted by a cunt with a bomb. All that Corbyn IRA/Hamas drivel had traction.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> The Three Scenarios For The U.K. Election
> 
> A prediction - or three - from America!


A clever prediction indeed.  It'll either be a big Tory majority, a small Tory majority or no Tory majority.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> If the Tories win on the basis of being seen to be tougher/more reliable on terrorism, then those three recent attacks will have killed a lot more than thirty-odd people once the NHS is run down and split up and many people are left without access to decent healthcare.
> 
> Labour had reasonable momentum before the Manchester attack and were making headway on domestic issues, but the narrative was shifted by a cunt with a bomb. All that Corbyn IRA/Hamas drivel had traction.


So what you're saying is...

Theresa May was behind the bombing and stabbing?  Of course, it all now makes sense.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

kabbes said:


> A clever prediction indeed.  It'll either be a big Tory majority, a small Tory majority or no Tory majority.



Nate Bronze


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

Brainaddict said:


> I hear people saying it's not worth the time to vote and I think, stop deluding yourself, you've had wanks that lasted longer than it will take you to get to the polling station and back. You'll waste time this year on stuff that isn't even as fun as wanking, or as productive. Just fucking vote.



Well, if you live say in Knowsley where the Labour vote is 80% and you aren't a Labour support I could see a reason not to leave the house if it is raining.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 8, 2017)

Which echoes his prediction for the US election - a big Hilary win, a small Hilary win, or a small Trump win... It's all maths and stats from what I gather... Strange to see such a big range of polling results, though, from Cons +13 to Labour +3. 

Still hammering it down in Cardiff Central (could be lovely in Cardiff South, what do I know) for that's worth. Boo!


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 8, 2017)

kabbes said:


> So what you're saying is...
> 
> Theresa May was behind the bombing and stabbing?  Of course, it all now makes sense.



Not at all - but they were able to profit from it. I'm angry with the bomber for not only the immediate effects of their act but for moving debate onto this ground and those that will suffer for it, it gives their event more power and they deserve none.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

The Guardian published 15 different poll results yesterday, all predicting a Tory win 

*Hung parliament *- the YouGov model

This is the most recent forecast (from yesterday) from the YouGov model*, *a forecasting model devised using multilevel regression and post-stratification (MRP). This involves taking polling data and, using data about the demographic composition of constituencies, and how different demographics vote, developing a seat-by-seat forecast. The Conservatives (304) would have the most seats, but even with Northern Ireland unionists (around 10) they could be outvoted by a coalition of Labour (266), the SNP (46), the Lib Dems (12) and the Greens (1).






 YouGov model. Photograph: YouGov
*Conservative majority of 22 - *electionpolling.co.uk forecast

This is the most recent forecast on electionpolling.co.uk, based on what would happen on the basis of the swing implied by the most recent polls.

*Conservative majority of 28 *- New Statesman

This is the majority implied by the seat forecasts in the New Statesman’s model, which takes the latest polling figures and produces a forecast using the RegVar forecasting model.

_*Conservative majority of around 40* _- Peter Kellner’s prediction

This is the prediction that Peter Kellner, the leading pollster and former YouGov president, set out in an Evening Standard column yesterday.

*Conservative majority of 48 - *Local election projection

This is the forecast that Sky New elections expert Prof Michael Thrasher produced straight after the local elections, judging what would happen in a general election based on voting in the locals. It does not take into account developments since the campaign started.

*Conservative majority of 52 *- Projection based on Opinium’s final poll

Opinium’s final poll suggests the Tories are on 43%, Labour 36%, the Lib Dems 8% and Ukip 5%, and Electoral Calculus says this would give the Tories a majority of 52.

*Conservative majority of 58 *- Projection based on “poll of polls” in Guardian poll tracker

The Guardian’s poll tracker currently has the Tories on 44%, Labour on 36%, the Lib Dems on 8%, Ukip on 4% and the Greens on 2%, and Electoral Calculus says this would give the Tories a majority of 58.

*Conservative majority of 64 *- the Ashcroft Model

This is the central forecast of the Ashcroft Model, a forecasting model devised by Lord Ashcroft also using MRP. But his forecast is different from YouGov’s.

The Conservatives remain on course to win a majority in the general election, according to new figures from the Ashcroft Model. Our “combined probabilistic model”, which calculates the sum of each party’s win chances in all the seats in which it is standing, estimates 357 Tory seats, or a potential majority of 64 (up four from the previous update published last Friday). However, this central estimate, based on an update survey conducted over the weekend, combines the data from three different turnout scenarios: including all those who currently say they will vote on Thursday (giving a Conservative majority of 70); including all those who say they voted in the EU referendum (a Conservative majority of 48); and assuming turnout matches that of the 2015 election (a Conservative majority of 78).





 Ashcroft model. Photograph: Lord Ashcroft/Ashcroft model forecast
*Conservative majority of 71* - Elections Etc combined forecast

Elections Etc is an elections website run by Stephen Fisher, an Oxford academic who is part of the team working on the BBC/Sky/ITV exit poll. The combined forecast is a forecast that produces an average of all forecasts available based on a system: using polling, and forecasting models; betting trends; and wisdom-of-the-crowd exercises. Here are their most recent figures, from five days ago.





 Combined forecast for election. Photograph: Elections Etc
*Conservative majority of 72 *- Electoral Calculus forecast

This is the current forecast on the Electoral Calculus website, which is calculated using an average of recent polls.

_*Conservative majority of 75 to 99 *- _Betfair’s central forecast

According to figures from the bookmakers Betfair today, the Tories winning a majority of 75 to 99 is their most popular option with punters. Their odds on this are 5/1.

_*Conservative majority of 84 *- _Projection based on latest Guardian/ICM poll

The latest Guardian/ICM poll has the Tories on 45%, Labour 34%, the Lib Dems 8%, Ukip 5% and the Greens 3%, which Electoral Calculus says would give the Tories a majority of 84. A final Guardian/ICM poll is due out tomorrow.

*Conservative majority of 100 *- the electionforecast.co.uk model

This is a model run by Chris Hanretty at the University of East Anglia, using polling data but adjusting for trends in voting behaviour. Its most recent forecast has the Tories getting 375 seats.

*Conservative majority of 105* - Nigel Marriott’s prediction

This is the prediction from the statistician Nigel Marriott, who explains his methodology here.

*Conservative majority of 122* - Iain Dale’s prediction

This is the prediction from Iain Dale, the broadcaster, publisher and onetime chief of staff to David Davis. On his blog he has made predictions for every seat in the country.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 8, 2017)

Interesting post at head of the Guardian's election blog: 

 

So, keep schtum!


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> DexterTCN  It's telling that you think being a socialist means that you must be some other party than SNP. That says everything anyone needs to know about you. So thanks for that.
> 
> Also, thanks for cheering me up. I was feeling a bit glum but I've still got a smile on my face about you thinking I'm a Trot.


Amazing.  The exact opposite of what I posted. 



DexterTCN said:


> I like these ones.....
> 
> A question of values


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 8, 2017)

Let it go.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 8, 2017)

And I hope Caroline Lucas holds her seat.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> Not at all - but they were able to profit from it. I'm angry with the bomber for not only the immediate effects of their act but for moving debate onto this ground and those that will suffer for it, it gives their event more power and they deserve none.


No, let's stick with it.  May planned the attacks.  She needs to be locked up!


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 8, 2017)

OK, I'll start it: 

LOCK HER UP!
LOCK HER UP! 
LOCK HER UP!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN I'm not clicking on that Hillsborough denier scumbag's site any more than I'd buy or read the Sun. I've told you that before.

For others who don't know, here's a taste of what he's like:

A blog detailing his transphobia: WEEKLY WANKER #017: WINGS OVER SCOTLAND

And on Hillsborough:

   

So don't post links to the scumbag and expect decent folk to read it. If you want us to know what he's said, you'll need to provide a précis.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

Isn't this the clown who lives in Somerset yet claims to be a Scottish Nationalist?


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 8, 2017)

MightyTibberton said:


> OK, I'll start it:
> 
> LOCK HER UP!
> LOCK HER UP!
> LOCK HER UP!



Now that's politics!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Isn't this the clown who lives in Somerset yet claims to be a Scottish Nationalist?


That's the one, although I have to say I don't see any problem with him living wherever he wants and being a Scottish nationalist. There's other reasons for him being scum.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 8, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Nate Bronze


You'll be glad to hear Lena Dunham - the US electoral Eddie Izzard - has publicly declared for Corbyn. Presumably, not from Canada.


----------



## killer b (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm baffled by the number of people on my socials talking about insisting on using a pen. Mild tinfoil hattery everywhere atm (cf. the plymouth missing postal votes).


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> I'm baffled by the number of people on my socials talking about insisting on using a pen. Mild tinfoil hattery everywhere atm (cf. the plymouth missing postal votes).


Show them this. It'll blow their minds.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Show them this. It'll blow their minds.
> 
> View attachment 108777


yeh ime fucking ink rubbers never work


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 8, 2017)

I saw enormous drums of tippex in an unmarked van behind my polling station! 

Wake up sheeple!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh ime fucking ink rubbers never work


well they do get rid of the markings. By ripping the chunk of paper out. No, its either start again or use tippex, I hate tippex. Stinks and looks like jizz on your work


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> I'm baffled by the number of people on my socials talking about insisting on using a pen. Mild tinfoil hattery everywhere atm (cf. the plymouth missing postal votes).



Ah, that takes me back. Wasn't there a lot of this in the EU referendum?  Lots of leave voters calling stitch-up shortly before they won anyway.


----------



## killer b (Jun 8, 2017)

The idea that electoral skullduggery would be carried out by individually rubbing out and changing people's votes is laughable. It's like a sub-plot from a St Trinian's movie.


----------



## MightyTibberton (Jun 8, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Stinks and looks like jizz on your work



You know this how?


----------



## chilango (Jun 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> The idea that electoral skullduggery would be carried out by individually rubbing out and changing people's votes is laughable. It's like a sub-plot from a St Trinian's movie.



What are those green things on their fingers then? eh? eh? Efficient rubbers. That's what.

Wake up sheeple.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> The idea that electoral skullduggery would be carried out by individually rubbing out and changing people's votes is laughable. It's like a sub-plot from a St Trinian's movie.


Ealing comedy, I can see it in my minds eye


----------



## killer b (Jun 8, 2017)

Jim Naughtie being unusually frank about the wild old time they have in the BBC studios on election night here.


----------



## killer b (Jun 8, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Ealing comedy, I can see it in my minds eye


I'm imagining something like the scene from Willie Wonka's Chocolate Factory where Veruca Salt's dad has his production line opening bars of chocolate.


----------



## chilango (Jun 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> I'm imagining something like the scene from Willie Wonka's Chocolate Factory where Veruca Salt's dad has his production line opening bars of chocolate.



Spot the difference?

No, me neither.

Wake up sheeple!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> Jim Naughtie being unusually frank about the wild old time they have in the BBC studios on election night here.
> 
> View attachment 108779


I'm gonna do that too


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I'm gonna do that too


on the bong and the hash browns


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> You'll be glad to hear Lena Dunham - the US electoral Eddie Izzard - has publicly declared for Corbyn. Presumably, not from Canada.



Tory landslide then...


----------



## Poi E (Jun 8, 2017)

They still make you vote with a pencil and don't ask for ID?


----------



## lazythursday (Jun 8, 2017)

My partner turned up pissed last night with an old friend of his who normally lives in India somewhere. Corbyn? A security services plant. Terrorist attacks? False flags obviously. Some bizarre mix of Lexit and Breitbart talking points on the EU. Thrown him out in the rain this morning, just can't take any more conspiraloonery on today of all depressing days.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> Jim Naughtie being unusually frank about the wild old time they have in the BBC studios on election night here.
> 
> View attachment 108779


Workable _Sash _lyrics there, I reckon.


----------



## chandlerp (Jun 8, 2017)

The pencils used in polling stations are wax based and impervious to erasers.


----------



## treelover (Jun 8, 2017)

> * From rust belt to mill towns: a tale of two voter revolts *
> On the eve of Britain’s election, Thomas Frank, who anticipated the rise of Trump among white working-class voters in the US, visited the industrial heartlands of northern England to compare two momentous contests
> 
> From rust belt to mill towns: a tale of two voter revolts | Thomas Frank



Excellent article by Thomas Frank who predicted Trump win, has wrote incisively about the U.S left behinds and why they vote Republican, etc, now he turns his attention to here, well parts of the U.K.


----------



## Sirena (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> I'm baffled by the number of people on my socials talking about insisting on using a pen. Mild tinfoil hattery everywhere atm (cf. the plymouth missing postal votes).



Tbf I remember leavers saying the same, also Scot Nats.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

treelover said:


> Excellent article by Thomas Frank who predicted Trump win, has wrote incisively about the U.S left behinds and why the vote Republican, etc, now he turns his attention to here, well parts of the U.K.



Not sure about his Sheffield anecdote. I have seen people collecting cans from Sheffield bins sadly.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Tbf I remember leavers saying the same, also Scot Nats.


There were even "discarded sacks of Yes votes found in an alley" absolute proof* of which did the rounds for months after.

I guess if people care deeply about something they sometimes don't want rational answers to why it didn't happen.


(*If "absolute proof" also means "not proof at all").


----------



## treelover (Jun 8, 2017)

> But then the Tory steamroller seemed to break down. Prime Minister May, who had called the election, flip-flopped on a range of policies and couldn’t rouse herself to show up for the televised party leaders’ debate. Meanwhile, the platform Labour drew up was sensible and popular, and Corbyn turned out to be the opposite of feeble on the campaign trail. Maybe he was the one with the unstoppable populist mojo, the country’s pundits fretted.



But then, the attacks...


----------



## treelover (Jun 8, 2017)

> n the course of this essay, I have described a few of the reasons I heard for voting to leave the EU, but there are countless others I haven’t mentioned: fear of the power of Germany, fear of some kind of neo-Bonapartism, and so on. What they all have in common is that none of them is particularly convincing and some of them are flatly specious.
> 
> I suspect the truth is something more blunt, something symbolic, something captured in that image of the Asos warehouse flying the EU flag. It is simply this: as Britain advances down the Road to Zero, as its average, working-class citizens find themselves losing more power over their lives, as austerity deepens, and as they watch their way of life crumble, they will (like we Americans) grab at any chance they are offered to take a swing at society’s winners.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sirena (Jun 8, 2017)

What does this mean?

Ladbrokes UK General Election Betting - Enhanced Odds


----------



## Whagwan (Jun 8, 2017)

Sirena said:


> What does this mean?
> 
> Ladbrokes UK General Election Betting - Enhanced Odds



It means Ladbrokes want to give you a free £20 to get you hooked on the exciting sport of political betting.


----------



## pesh (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## killer b (Jun 8, 2017)

it means they're using an almost-sure bet to lure in new customers.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 8, 2017)

Sirena said:


> What does this mean?
> 
> Ladbrokes UK General Election Betting - Enhanced Odds


Nothing. It's a bad promotion - not the only bookies offering it - that encourages you to sign up. If you win, you have to keep playing to meet the requirements of the free bet before you can withdraw any actual money.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

If Corbyn had not been anti-nuclear and pro-peace, would he have won this election?  It seems to be he biggest obstacle for him.  Everything else has been gravy.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

mauvais said:


> Nothing. It's a bad promotion - not the only bookies offering it - that encourages you to sign up. If you win, you have to keep playing to meet the requirements of the free bet before you can withdraw any actual money.


You can get a bit of free cash by betting the opposite way and losing the spread, but it's a lot of effort to bank £20


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 8, 2017)

kabbes said:


> If Corbyn had not been anti-nuclear and pro-peace, would he have won this election?  It seems to be he biggest obstacle for him.  Everything else has been gravy.


The nuke debate was one of the things that depressed me most in this election. Just seeing all those people who seemingly equate nukes with safety, rather than killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people - we're so fucked


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> The nuke debate was one of the things that depressed me most in this election. Just seeing all those people who seemingly equate nukes with safety, rather than killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people - we're so fucked


Oh, completely agree.  I agree with Corbyn's stance.  But it's not really the question -- I'm wondering if in the end it is this that has cost us another five years of austerity.  If so, what a shame.


----------



## Ted Striker (Jun 8, 2017)

kabbes said:


> If Corbyn had not been anti-nuclear and pro-peace, would he have won this election?  It seems to be he biggest obstacle for him.  Everything else has been gravy.



I'd add in Anti-Diane (Abbot, not Princess of Wales) and the hypothesis has legs IMO.

I mean, it/s just where the Crosby/MSM pointed their gun this time round, who knows what they would have done to mobilise their readership if necessary.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2017)

its not really been all gravy. The IRA/Hamas stuff will have found its mark with some people I think.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> its not really been all gravy. The IRA/Hamas stuff will have found its mark with some people I think.


That's what I was referring to as "pro-peace".

That's the stuff that is nothing to do with the manifesto, but may decide the election anyway.  Someone without that past but running on the same platform -- would they have won?  I suspect so.  This is frustrating.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> its not really been all gravy. The IRA/Hamas stuff will have found its mark with some people I think.



Garden tax and coalition of chaos will be prominent examples of successful attacks too.

I already feel how I felt after the 2015 exit polling.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

pesh said:


>



We clearly need ODIHR observers in!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 8, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Oh, completely agree.  I agree with Corbyn's stance.  But it's not really the question -- I'm wondering if in the end it is this that has cost us another five years of austerity.  If so, what a shame.


Sorry, course, wasn't disputing that. More just piling on with the despondency really; as you say, five more years of austerity because people want to believe their PM will blow shit up in a very hypothetical situation.

"Well, I can't afford to feed, clothe or heal myself and neither can anyone else, but at least I know we'll have the last blood-soaked laugh should shit get really serious. Thank God I didn't vote for the guy who wanted to help people"

So fucked.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 8, 2017)

kabbes said:


> That's what I was referring to as "pro-peace".
> 
> That's the stuff that is nothing to do with the manifesto, but may decide the election anyway.  Someone without that past but running on the same platform -- would they have won?  I suspect so.  This is frustrating.


The nuke stuff, the Hamas/IRA stuff, plus the two attacks during the campaigning. All distracted from the rest of the issues.


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 8, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> "Well, I can't afford to feed, clothe or heal myself and neither can anyone else, but at least I know we'll have the last blood-soaked laugh should shit get really serious. Thank God I didn't vote for the guy who wanted to help people"



I'm pretty sure no one actually thought that, if that's any consolation.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

I see Leslie Riddoch in the National today making exactly the point I was making about "Kezgate": "it could prove to be a problem for the SNP as well as Labour". 

"It's the kind of 'he said - she said' stuff that turns people off politics - and might damage the wrong political rivals from an SNP perspective".

Precisely.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 8, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I'm pretty sure no one actually thought that, if that's any consolation.


They will, they will...


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 8, 2017)

pesh said:


>



let them kill each other, we cannot lose


----------



## maomao (Jun 8, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> let them kill each other, we cannot lose


Cameramen? What have you got against cameramen now AW?


----------



## Wilf (Jun 8, 2017)

pesh said:


>



Camera Moshpit!


----------



## Wilf (Jun 8, 2017)

Who PhD said:


> let them kill each other, we cannot lose


Finally, a post of yours I can like!


----------



## Wilf (Jun 8, 2017)

Santino said:


> There's no need for a pile-on.


In this case, I'll allow it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

Santino said:


> There's no need for a pile-on.


always good to see someone with mod pretensions


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> always good to see someone with mod pretensions


I'd assumed it was a bottom pun.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 8, 2017)

well at least ive tried, and if doesn't go my way I can justify bitching down the local, was warned off being too political after apparently tearing into a tory there the other night. in a non violent coherent way ( well as coherent as I can get after a few pints ) I may add


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 8, 2017)

ruffneck23 said:


> well at least ive tried, and if doesn't go my way I can justify bitching down the local, was warned off being too political after apparently tearing into a tory there the other night. in a non violent coherent way ( well as coherent as I can get after a few pints ) I may add



Cunt got off lightly by the sounds of it.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 8, 2017)

The depressing thing is that the Tories will redraw the political boundaries to their advantage, so it'll be even harder to shift them next time. That and there will continue to be more money flowing upwards to wealthy hedge fund types who will bung a bit of small change back at the party that helps them appropriate their wealth and avoid taxation on it, thus always giving the party of the rich a fat war chest. No chance that this will be changed or challenged. By the next election they'll have really got the social media social engineering thing sussed and will be able to buy in the best data and analysts for precision targeted messaging. It's a feedback loop of eternal shitness and I can't see where there will ever be a chance to throw a spanner in it.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)

There's one spanner option left


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> There's one spanner option left


if I had a hammer, a hammer.....


----------



## Crispy (Jun 8, 2017)

When all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a Tory MP's kneecaps.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Tunnocks are Tories.



Fuck!

(slopes off to set fire to stockpile of teacakes and wafers    )


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> DexterTCN I'm not clicking on that Hillsborough denier scumbag's site any more than I'd buy or read the Sun. I've told you that before.
> 
> For others who don't know, here's a taste of what he's like:
> 
> ...



Actually decent people would wonder what the fuck your post has to do with the election. 

Once you've decided who the decent ones are, of course.  That's your job.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 8, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Fuck!
> 
> (slopes off to set fire to stockpile of teacakes and wafers    )


I bit they put tory juice in them.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> Absolutely.  They'll see that you posted some made up garbage and when challenged on it you hummed and hawed then 'liked' a post where some no mark who knows fuck all about scots politics jumped in and called me a cunt.



And a gobshite, you gobshite cunt.

As for knowing fuck-all about Scots politics, I wasn't commenting on Scots politics, you soapy cunt, I was commenting on YOU getting things wrong.

AGAIN.



> Satisfaction all around.  What do you think the socialist vote up here will be today?  Better or worse than the massive 895 you got last time?   Carry on the good work.



You do know that he's not a socialist but an anarchist, don't you?  Just as I'm sure you know that anarchists mostly don't believe in electoralism?

Daft cunt.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 8, 2017)

So he's not a socialist?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> What the fuck are you on about? Do you still think I'm SSP or something?
> 
> This is what happens, folks, when you are so blinkered that you can't read what people are saying. "He was mildly critical of this one thing so he must be a member of that other party".
> 
> You look ridiculous.



It'd the logic of an idiot - "if you don't support my team, you must support the other team".  Makes me laugh almost as much as the poster yesterday who spoke about (to paraphrase slightly) "Class War and Ian Bone's little mob"!
I sometimes end up thinking that when Yahweh was handing out brains, these folk thought he said "drains", and asked for theirs to be sucked out.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> Actually decent people would wonder what the fuck your post has to do with the election.


What it's to do with is you providing a link to Wings, not saying what's on it, and then presenting it again without comment.

It's also to do with me saying I won't click Wings and you calling it "the truth" all in this thread. Where people can see that it was you doing it.

You clown.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> So he's not a socialist?


I consider anarchism to be a subset of socialism.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> So he's not a socialist?



That's right, he's not a socialist.  Accusing him of being a member of the SSP, or one of their fellow-travellers is immensely funny.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 8, 2017)

ViolentPanda 
What's this?


danny la rouge said:


> I want independence as means to an end. I'm a socialist. I think in the past you claim to have read James Connolly. (I may have misremembered this: if so, apologies). I suggest you re-read him.
> 
> "If you remove the English army tomorrow and hoist the green flag over Dublin Castle, unless you set about the organization of the Socialist Republic your efforts would be in vain." - James Connolly.
> 
> I was brought up in a household where John MacLean and James Connolly's names were bandied about with reverence almost daily in political discourse, by my Dad and uncles in their discussions, over dinner, in after pub carry out parties, and so on. My pro independence sentiment is as old as my socialism. ....


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> So he's not a socialist?



lol


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> I consider anarchism to be a subset of socialism.



Personally, I'd say of communism (but not Communism, iyswim).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 8, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> lol



You just know that Dexter is now scrutinising dlr's posts, looking for something that shows him claiming to be a socialist.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Personally, I'd say of communism (but not Communism, iyswim).


Works for me. I describe my position as anarchist communist, but I'm not that fussed by the labels. 

My comrades would be anarchists, left communists, council communists, operaismists, and so on.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> ViolentPanda
> What's this?


A post by me.

HTH


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 8, 2017)

DexterTCN said:


> ViolentPanda
> What's this?



Oh look, Dexter shows he doesn't understand the difference between socialism, and being a member of a socialist party.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

Hey, DexterTCN Urban 2017 GE exit poll

_"My daughter, my sister, my daughter, my sister ..."_


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 8, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> You just know that Dexter is now scrutinising dlr's posts, looking for something that shows him claiming to be a socialist.



Takes a bow at my own prophecy coming true.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm going to go and vote after work. I haven't gone all Anarchists for Corbyn or anything, but it's a bit of a psychological act really (I haven't been doing anything political for a while, so in that vacuum voting seems like the only thing left).  We've also been struggling to get my Dad a vote in his care home - just about managed it on time - so I'd feel pretty low not doing it myself, again, without abandoning my basic idea that it's blind alley and there's no real future with the Labour Party.  Just hope there's a bit of energy after the election to go and start building something with regard to class politics, however defined. 

This is probably the wrong thread, but I hope people who joined the Labour Party reassess how much of a priority Labour Party activity should be.  Things could go in several directions in terms of the constitution or battles over reselection - it might even emerge 'more Corbynite' in 18 months.  Wouldn't dream of telling people whether they should stay or leave Labour, but if anything the last 18 months have illustrated the problems of trying to rebuild social democracy.  Much better to oppose capitalism directly and actively.  Anyway, I'll stop there, sounding preachy.  Whole thing is depressing.


----------



## 8den (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

christ


----------



## free spirit (Jun 8, 2017)

According to my facebook timeline everyone is voting, and 95% are voting corbyn, with about 5% Green. And every other post is someone pleading with everyone else to get out there and vote, so hopefully that message at least is sinking in.

Had a bit of a dilemma in the polling booth, but think I ended up doing the right thing and following the logic of my campaigning through to it's slightly odd conclusion. Basically get the lib dems out if they're not going to be part of the solution they're part of the problem, so tactical voting it is.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

free spirit said:


> According to my facebook timeline everyone is voting, and 95% are voting corbyn, with about 5% Green. And every other post is someone pleading with everyone else to get out there and vote, so hopefully that message at least is sinking in.
> 
> Had a bit of a dilemma in the polling booth, but think I ended up doing the right thing and following the logic of my campaigning through to it's slightly odd conclusion. Basically get the lib dems out if they're not going to be part of the solution they're part of the problem, so tactical voting it is.


Haven't you been campaigning for the Greens?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 8, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I'm going to go and vote after work. I haven't gone all Anarchists for Corbyn or anything, but it's a bit of a psychological act really (I haven't been doing anything political for a while, so in that vacuum voting seems like the only thing left).  We've also been struggling to get my Dad a vote in his care home - just about managed it on time - so I'd feel pretty low not doing it myself, again, without abandoning my basic idea that it's blind alley and there's no real future with the Labour Party.  Just hope there's a bit of energy after the election to go and start building something with regard to class politics, however defined.
> 
> This is probably the wrong thread, but I hope people who joined the Labour Party reassess how much of a priority Labour Party activity should be.  Things could go in several directions in terms of the constitution or battles over reselection - it might even emerge 'more Corbynite' in 18 months.  Wouldn't dream of telling people whether they should stay or leave Labour, but if anything the last 18 months have illustrated the problems of trying to rebuild social democracy.  Much better to oppose capitalism directly and actively.  Anyway, I'll stop there, sounding preachy.  Whole thing is depressing.


Thanks for writing this post. I've given up being the other face of doom/hope on here. No matter what - something is in the air and we better make the most of it.


----------



## Lucy Fur (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 8, 2017)

J Ed said:


> christ


Jeeze what bunch of fuckers


----------



## chilango (Jun 8, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Thanks for writing this post. I've given up being the other face of doom/hope on here. No matter what - something is in the air and we better make the most of it.



It'd be nice to have more conversations IRL about how best to build good stuff as opposed to stopping bad stuff, that's for sure.


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 8, 2017)

It's a spoof right? _The Sun_ isn't actually advocating acid trips for teenagers, even for a laugh.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

J Ed said:


> christ


that's not real, is it?


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 8, 2017)

chilango said:


> It'd be nice to have more conversations IRL about how best to build good stuff as opposed to stopping bad stuff, that's for sure.


With my mum?


----------



## killer b (Jun 8, 2017)

We haven't heard enough from your mum lately, I'm glad she's back on the scene.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> that's not real, is it?



It's real.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

J Ed said:


> It's real.


Hmm, I guess they can get away with it as it's presented as a humorous piece


----------



## eoin_k (Jun 8, 2017)

Perhaps, Chris Morris got a job with News Corp.


----------



## LDC (Jun 8, 2017)

chilango said:


> It'd be nice to have more conversations IRL about how best to build good stuff as opposed to stopping bad stuff, that's for sure.



Obviously not irl, but been meaning to start a thread about what are people going to do post-election for political organising, and whether this whole process has changed what they'll do or not.

My position (not my politics) on what to do has slowly been shifting for a bit, and last year it solidified, and I'm pretty sure what I'm going to work on for the next period of time. (Just need to find people to work with now...).

One of the only things I'm excited about re: this election is that there does seem to be a shift in politics somewhat, here's hoping we can come out of it stronger in the coming years whatever the result tomorrow.


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 8, 2017)

killer b said:


> We haven't heard enough from your mum lately, I'm glad she's back on the scene.


She's not enthused, it's boring labour though. Thinks corbyn is a joke. Voting in a dead town where tories win forever. Not a sort of place where labour could ever win. There's a hard 10% always labour, forever, it shows in the local elections as well - loads of places down here like that.

Anyway, As a motivating thing, corbyn didn't reach her - didn't need to.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 8, 2017)

From the Graun...

_You’re probably thinking to yourself (or perhaps not) what is the former Ukip leader Nigel Farage doing today, now that he’s not standing for parliament? Well, the renowned anti-elitist public-educated former city broker is at the Global Investment Forum, sponsored by a Swiss banking group and global private equity boutique._

Who knew...


----------



## chilango (Jun 8, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> With my mum?



You might be better placed to do that...


----------



## butchersapron (Jun 8, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Thanks for writing this post. I've given up being the other face of doom/hope on here. No matter what - something is in the air and we better make the most of it.


The problem is that the argument will be that this happens because and through the labour party. Where is the breakout? It captures people into it's parliamentary orbit. It's defined by it.


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> DexterTCN I'm not clicking on that Hillsborough denier scumbag's site any more than I'd buy or read the Sun. I've told you that before.
> 
> For others who don't know, here's a taste of what he's like:
> 
> ...


Wow! I had absolutely no idea. Thanks for that, Danny.


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 8, 2017)

Lord Camomile said:


> The nuke debate was one of the things that depressed me most in this election. Just seeing all those people who seemingly equate nukes with safety, rather than killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people - we're so fucked



I explained the whole thing to my mum, added the austerity thing and the logic in spending money on nuclear bombs while people have to go to foodbanks, and, [rhetorically] asked in the end: "Even if a nuclear bomb hit your country how can be moral a retaliation in the same coin knowing millions of innocent people would suffer for decades for the actions of those at the top?". I could have died when she replied "Cátia you need to stop being so black and white. Morality doesn't always trump pragmatism."
Seriously! The woman doesn't stop going on about her land from which she had to run because of a civil war which could be said to be the pinnacle of civility next to a nuclear war.
So, yeah... we're ever so fucked!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 8, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I'm going to go and vote after work. I haven't gone all Anarchists for Corbyn or anything, but it's a bit of a psychological act really (I haven't been doing anything political for a while, so in that vacuum voting seems like the only thing left).  We've also been struggling to get my Dad a vote in his care home - just about managed it on time - so I'd feel pretty low not doing it myself, again, without abandoning my basic idea that it's blind alley and there's no real future with the Labour Party.  Just hope there's a bit of energy after the election to go and start building something with regard to class politics, however defined.



My dad is not able to vote because he's stuck in hospital after a routine operation went sideways yesterday. Thankfully he was in an NHS hospital so although he needed a second emergency surgery all the resources were on hand for this eventuality and he's likely to recover pretty soon.

I can't help but think though that this is exactly the sort of situation which could easily cause fatalities in a piecemeal, half-privatised NHS. My dad's operation is exactly the sort of routine procedure private providers will want to bid for. These private hospitals won't have a full range of specialists on hand, nor emergency facilities, and so may be unable to respond to unexpected complications. 

Not sure why I'm posting this here, but it all just feels like a bad omen. Another five years of the tories butchering the NHS (they're already planning for this, the documents proving it are out in the public domain) and instead of a sore, grumpy but ultimately OK dad the very same situation might leave me with no dad. 

Basically I've got the same thought ringing through my head over and over again: the tories are gonna win, and many more people are gonna die needlessly


----------



## Red Cat (Jun 8, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Obviously not irl, but been meaning to start a thread about what are people going to do post-election for political organising, and whether this whole process has changed what they'll do or not.
> 
> My position (not my politics) on what to do has slowly been shifting for a bit, and last year it solidified, and I'm pretty sure what I'm going to work on for the next period of time. (Just need to find people to work with now...).
> 
> One of the only things I'm excited about re: this election is that there does seem to be a shift in politics somewhat, here's hoping we can come out of it stronger in the coming years whatever the result tomorrow.



I hope so too. I'd hope that seeing something shift politically, albeit in the context of parliamentary politics, gives people a greater sense of agency that can be used for other ends. 

I still don't know what to do though.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 8, 2017)

MochaSoul said:


> I explained the whole thing to my mum, added the austerity thing and the logic in spending money on nuclear bombs while people have to go to foodbanks, and, [rhetorically] asked in the end: "Even if a nuclear bomb hit your country how can be moral a retaliation in the same coin knowing millions of innocent people would suffer for decades for the actions of those at the top?". I could have died when she replied "Cátia you need to stop being so black and white. Morality doesn't always trump pragmatism."
> Seriously! The woman doesn't stop going on about her land from which she had to run because of a civil war which could be said to be the pinnacle of civility next to a nuclear war.
> So, yeah... we're ever so fucked!



Not convinced that unleashing thermonuclear armageddon could ever be described as a pragmatic response to anything.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 8, 2017)

MochaSoul said:


> trump pragmatism



There's two words I never thought I'd see together


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 8, 2017)

Sadly this was not me. I would have added "fucking" as well

Graffiti painted on walls of Maidenhead Conservative Club


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Sadly this was not me. I would have added "fucking" as well
> 
> Graffiti painted on walls of Maidenhead Conservative Club


there's a handy map if you want to visit them


----------



## belboid (Jun 8, 2017)

Time for some late door knocking. It's about time those students got out of bed.


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 8, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not convinced that unleashing thermonuclear armageddon could ever be described as a pragmatic response to anything.


Argh. Don't even go there. It was particularly galling because I'd just come back home from having changed this lad's mind about the tragedy of Osama Bin Laden's death. When he shook my hand and said he'd never thought of a trial that way it made my evening. I ended my conversation with my mum with "Forgive her god, she knows not what she says!". Thank goodness she's not a vote here either.


----------



## JimW (Jun 8, 2017)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Sadly this was not me. I would have added "fucking" as well
> 
> Graffiti painted on walls of Maidenhead Conservative Club


It's just the local council providing some helpful signage to help people identify the various services available in town.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

Still another 4.5 hours of being able to dream.  Make the most of it, people.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 8, 2017)

free spirit said:


> According to my facebook timeline everyone is voting, and 95% are voting corbyn, with about 5% Green. And every other post is someone pleading with everyone else to get out there and vote, so hopefully that message at least is sinking in.
> 
> Had a bit of a dilemma in the polling booth, but think I ended up doing the right thing and following the logic of my campaigning through to it's slightly odd conclusion. Basically get the lib dems out if they're not going to be part of the solution they're part of the problem, so tactical voting it is.



Echo chamber. Mostly because I suspect your aren't friends with Tories.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)

Tory cunt Simon Kirby made an unexpected appearance in Whitehawk (Brighton Kemptown) today, the vacuous fuckin cunt! Not been spotted for months then turns up in Whitehawk, one of the most impoverished areas in Brighton. Hope he loses his seat to Lloyd Russell.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Still another 4.5 hours of being able to dream.  Make the most of it, people.



My minority Lab bet's coming in at 10/1!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 8, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Echo chamber. Mostly because I suspect your aren't friends with Tories.



I wonder that for the majority of people that's less true on facebook than it is on twitter. On facebook (unless you have an anonymous fake name account) there are all your school friends, your colleagues, your family, as well as likeminded folk you choose to be friends with. It'll vary of course, but there's less of an echo chamber effect on fb than twitter.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> I wonder that for the majority of people that's less true on facebook than it is on twitter. On facebook (unless you have an anonymous fake name account) there are all your school friends, your colleagues, your family, as well as likeminded folk you choose to be friends with. It'll vary of course, but there's less of an echo chamber effect on fb than twitter.


I bet there's still not a great deal of demographic diversity.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 8, 2017)

Blimey.  I've just had a call from the tories asking me whether I've voted yet.  I've never had a call from them in the past, they must be going through the phone book or something, desperate times.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> I wonder that for the majority of people that's less true on facebook than it is on twitter. On facebook (unless you have an anonymous fake name account) there are all your school friends, your colleagues, your family, as well as likeminded folk you choose to be friends with. It'll vary of course, but there's less of an echo chamber effect on fb than twitter.


school friends? colleagues? i must be doing Facebook wrong


----------



## Voley (Jun 8, 2017)

kabbes said:


> Still another 4.5 hours of being able to dream.  Make the most of it, people.


 Frankie Boyle's with you on this, kabbes:


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

Voley said:


> Frankie Boyle's with you on this, kabbes:



there must be a foreign word for this emotion


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 8, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> My minority Lab bet's coming in at 10/1!



To the nearest thousand how much do you stand to win?


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 8, 2017)

Covfefe


----------



## rekil (Jun 8, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Blimey.  I've just had a call from the tories asking me whether I've voted yet.  I've never had a call from them in the past, they must be going through the phone book or something, desperate times.


Waste their time and resources by telling them you need a lift to the polling station?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> To the nearest thousand how much do you stand to win?



I'm keeping the fuckin dream alive, ok?


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 8, 2017)

copliker said:


> Waste their time and resources by telling them you need a lift to the polling station?



Ah shit. Forgot about that.  Would have been hilarious to see them turn up to give a lift (to a perfectly able person) 50m round the corner to the polling station.


----------



## free spirit (Jun 8, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Haven't you been campaigning for the Greens?


ah yes, I can't campaign against a Green candidate or I'd be kicked out of the party, but voting is an entirely different matter.

We've also been campaigning to pick up pissed of lib dem votes as there's a proportion of them who still won't vote Labour, but are pissed off enough to vote for us as their protest vote against the lib dem tactics..

I started off the campaign thinking that it didn't really matter that much if it was lib dem or labour here, as the lib dems had said they'd not support a tory minority government. That changed when they also said they'd not support a Labour minority government, then sent out mountains of campaign material saying to vote lib dem to stop labour / corbyn.

It's been an odd election, around here we've stood down in 2 constituencies and actively leafleted in part of one of them to swing the vote behind Labour. Then in my constituency we're standing but most of our support has swung to Labour, and we've struggled to get any enthusiasm for the campaign. Mostly we've been standing now because there's an all out council election next year that we stand a good chance of winning some seats in on 2nd preference votes, and if we didn't stand now that probably wouldn't happen. Also if we didn't stand it wasn't really clear which if any of the other 2 parties would have benefited the most from it, it could well have benefited the lib dems more.

Labour this time around is a very different kettle of fish to 2015 when they were a tory lite, austerity supporting party


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 8, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Ah shit. Forgot about that.  Would have been hilarious to see them turn up to give a lift (to a perfectly able person) 50m round the corner to the polling station.



Funnier if you walked straight into the pub/shop next door


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 8, 2017)

Anyone voting for this lot? 

The.Space.Navies


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Anyone voting for this lot?
> 
> The.Space.Navies





> We Intend to place more images on this page which are specific to the Space Navies but for the moment we have placed some Space and other images we like for you to enjoy.  Do not read too much into them as they are a selection including some taken from from our web design software programme's feebies. we like the Multicoloured hands etc as they suggest Diversity and Gayness, we like inages of The Earth especially with Multicoloured people around it. so now you know what's going on Here.


Awesome.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

free spirit said:


> ah yes, I can't campaign against a Green candidate or I'd be kicked out of the party, but voting is an entirely different matter.
> 
> We've also been campaigning to pick up pissed of lib dem votes as there's a proportion of them who still won't vote Labour, but are pissed off enough to vote for us as their protest vote against the lib dem tactics..
> 
> ...


don't you feel just a teeny bit like a hypocrite?


----------



## emanymton (Jun 8, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> The problem is that the argument will be that this happens because and through the labour party. Where is the breakout? It captures people into it's parliamentary orbit. It's defined by it.


This is why despite all the hope people have invested in Corbyn (including myself to be honest), I can't help feeling that in the long run, all this might actually be a bad thing. But I really fucking hope not.


----------



## free spirit (Jun 8, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Echo chamber. Mostly because I suspect your aren't friends with Tories.


I'd figured that one out already.

Though 7 years ago it would have been mostly lib dems, 2 years ago it was about half and half labour and green, and there's definitely a hell of a lot more people actively posting about voting than there was in 2015, so it does give a bit of a snap shot of what's going on with a subset of the population, and is encouraging me to think that the youth vote for Labour will be significantly higher than last time.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 8, 2017)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Anyone voting for this lot?
> 
> The.Space.Navies


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Funnier if you walked straight into the pub/shop next door



Even funnier bricking the car when it pulled up.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 8, 2017)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Funnier if you walked straight into the pub/shop next door



Yeah. Popped into the bookies and then strolled out two minutes later to collect my lift home.


----------



## free spirit (Jun 8, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> don't you feel just a teeny bit like a hypocrite?


no. I feel a lot like we've got a broken electoral system that I'm attempting to negotiate my way around until it gets fixed. 

We clearly weren't going to win it, but that doesn't mean we can't use our campaigning to influence the vote so that the candidate who's nearest to our position is more likely to win. It's also about having a platform to change / challenge the political narrative that bypasses the mainstream media. IMO the Green's 2015 campaign laid the groundwork for Corbyn's election as Labour leader, and his manifesto and campaign now. 

Having a 2nd party also saying very similar things now and pointing out that austerity is a choice not a necessity etc helps to support Labour's case, and undermine that of the Tories, whether that's at hustings, in leaflets or in the leaders debates.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

free spirit said:


> no. I feel a lot like we've got a broken electoral system that I'm attempting to negotiate my way around until it gets fixed.
> 
> We clearly weren't going to win it, but that *doesn't mean we can't use our campaigning to influence the vote so that the candidate who's nearest to our position is more likely to win*.


when would that ever be Green?
did you campaign in the same constituency you voted in?


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

I can see a polling station from here, if my memory wasn't so shit I'd know if the turn out was better than last time.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

bemused said:


> I can see a polling station from here, if my memory wasn't so shit I'd know if the turn out was better than last time.


Pop down there and ask


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Pop down there and ask



I've started videoing it.


----------



## rekil (Jun 8, 2017)

Teaboy said:


> Ah shit. Forgot about that.  Would have been hilarious to see them turn up to give a lift (to a perfectly able person) 50m round the corner to the polling station.


"Keep it under 10 mph please or I'll get sick. And swing by the shops. Can't vote without me lucky sausages!"


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

bemused said:


> I've started videoing it.


Not at all weird. I wouldn't worry about myself if I was you.


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Not at all weird. I wouldn't worry about myself if I was you.



I was worried people would think me a bit odd videoing them voting from this window. Easily solved I've found a balaclava.


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 8, 2017)

bemused said:


> I was worried people would think me a bit odd videoing them voting from this window. Easily solved I've found a balaclava.



You need to go down there and ask them their dates of birth so we can tell whether it's a youth-led Corbyn surge or not.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

bemused said:


> I was worried people would think me a bit odd videoing them voting from this window. Easily solved I've found a balaclava.


----------



## chilango (Jun 8, 2017)

emanymton said:


> This is why despite all the hope people have invested in Corbyn (including myself to be honest), I can't help feeling that in the long run, all this might actually be a bad thing. But I really fucking hope not.



Nah.

It'll be instructive as to how there is no parliamentary road to socialism. That lesson will either be learnt over the next 5 years or at about 10.25 tonight.

But at least we're talking about that rather than just "fighting the cuts".


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

Why did no one tell me that spoilt papers had to be read out to the candidates? I'm gutted.


----------



## Wilf (Jun 8, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> My dad is not able to vote because he's stuck in hospital after a routine operation went sideways yesterday. Thankfully he was in an NHS hospital so although he needed a second emergency surgery all the resources were on hand for this eventuality and he's likely to recover pretty soon.
> 
> I can't help but think though that this is exactly the sort of situation which could easily cause fatalities in a piecemeal, half-privatised NHS. My dad's operation is exactly the sort of routine procedure private providers will want to bid for. These private hospitals won't have a full range of specialists on hand, nor emergency facilities, and so may be unable to respond to unexpected complications.
> 
> ...




Hope your Dad's okay.

I had part of my thyroid removed last year after a cancer scare.  I was an NHS patient in a Nuffield hospital because it was the quickest appointment of the ones they offered me - turned out they also do the op if you are referred to them for the outpatient appointment.  The bones in my neck are also fused so there could have been an issue with them getting the breathing tubes down my throat.  The hospital apparently only had 1 of the pieces of specialist equipment to get access, which I found out in a meeting with the anaesthetist 2 days before the op.  The plan was, if there were problems, they would wake me up and transfer me to the NHS hospital where they have the other bit of (no doubt expensive) kit.

Turned out everything was fine in every respect - they did the op okay and I didn't have cancer.  But it was an illustration of exactly what you were saying.  Even aside from all the problems of waking someone up, transfers to other hospitals, there's the worry bit of it.  I wasn't that fussed about it being cancer as it happens, but I did spend the last 48 hours before the op with thoughts going round about oxygen starvation and whether I should be even cancelling the thing.  Yeah, even with a 'public' NHS, there'll be lots more mistakes, lack of continuities in treatment and things going missing.


----------



## chilango (Jun 8, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> The problem is that the argument will be that this happens because and through the labour party. Where is the breakout? It captures people into it's parliamentary orbit. It's defined by it.



in the unlikely event that we end up with a Labour (led) government the conversations can soon be about where are the the things that people hoped for? Why havent we got them? How can we get them?...and without Labour (or a more "Left" Labour) being an option anymore.

Of course there'll be the "keep the Tories out" narrative to counter, but that will only gain traction if Labour are delivering stuff.

It's also easy to get a bit swept up in "election fever", as a participant cheering on a team you don't really support just so you've got a stake in the game (I'm guilty of this) or of observing this happen and worrying that"anarchists for Corbyn" is a lasting shift. I don't think it is. 

Normal service will resume within a matter of days, if not hours.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

Have not seen one single leaflet, poster or advert for the Conservatives, out in the real world or online. 
I guess they don't need it to bother cos they have the newspapers that people read.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

bemused said:


> Why did no one tell me that spoilt papers had to be read out to the candidates? I'm gutted.


Surely that's not true? source?


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 8, 2017)

bemused said:


> Why did no one tell me that spoilt papers had to be read out to the candidates? I'm gutted.


OOHHHHH! I'd write a few to Raab.

e2a: dang it's true. Imagine a run of Saramago's Seeing
2nd edit: Nah they're not! They're just opened and shown

General Election 2017: How To Spoil Your Ballot Paper | HuffPost UK


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 8, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> The problem is that the argument will be that this happens because and through the labour party. Where is the breakout? It captures people into it's parliamentary orbit. It's defined by it.



Been explaining this over and over again to people converting to Corbynism.


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Surely that's not true? source?



I've been told by someone who volunteers counting them that each of the spoiled papers is reviewed with the candidates because they can appeal them as valid votes.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

bemused said:


> I've been told by someone who volunteers counting them that each of the spoiled papers is reviewed with the candidates because they can appeal them as valid votes.


This is true. They'll try to make a case for "the elector making a clear choice". The ones who fuck it up are the ones who sign their name. That's "elector has identified him or herself".


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> This is true. They'll try to make a case for "the elector making a clear choice". The ones who fuck it up are the ones who sign their name. That's "elector has identified him or herself".



I'm gutted, the cheeky chap within me would like to write 'I vote for XXX even thou they are a smug cunt' in the hope that it was so close they'd argue for it to be included


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

bemused said:


> I'm gutted, the cheeky chap within me would like to write 'I vote for XXX even thou they are a smug cunt' in the hope that it was so close they'd argue for it to be included


The candidate would definitely argue to have that counted. The other candidates would be trying to have it not counted.


----------



## belboid (Jun 8, 2017)

Fucking loads of people out in Hallam. Great response as well, even if we are in the studenty part.


----------



## shaman75 (Jun 8, 2017)

Some issue in Newcastle under Lyme according to twitter, with students being turned away.

newcastle under lyme - Twitter Search


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

belboid said:


> Fucking loads of people out in Hallam. Great response as well, even if we are in the studenty part.



If they lose Hallam I wonder how many days until Clegg becomes a graunid journo?


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

J Ed said:


> If they lose Hallam I wonder how many days until Clegg becomes a graunid journo?



He'll be on This Week. And then some shit documentry on European trains.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

bemused said:


> He'll be on This Week. And then some shit documentry on European trains.



Him and Portillo could do a programme in Spain, they have so much in common given that they both speak Spanish and are Tory cunts.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 8, 2017)

bemused said:


> He'll be on This Week. And then some shit documentry on European trains.


Or a humanising documentary on Vidkun Quisling and other collaborators


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

J Ed said:


> If they lose Hallam I wonder how many days until Clegg becomes a graunid journo?


Never. He will be grabbed from the stage during his concession speech, marched to the nearest lamp-post and made to do the tyburn jig


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

shaman75 said:


> Some issue in Newcastle under Lyme according to twitter, with students being turned away.
> 
> newcastle under lyme - Twitter Search



Dozens of voters denied chance to vote in marginal seat due to 'administrative errors'


----------



## cantsin (Jun 8, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> there must be a foreign word for this emotion



There is, old Bavarian 19th C , prekapputenhoppen


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

danny la rouge said:


> Dozens of voters denied chance to vote in marginal seat due to 'administrative errors'



This is why I always make sure I have a polling card, gives you plenty of time to fix any issues.


----------



## bemused (Jun 8, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Never. He will be grabbed from the stage during his concession speech, marched to the nearest lamp-post and made to do the Tyburn jig



I don't think that would work; I suspect Nick is a T3000 sent from the future to terminate any enjoyment of political TV shows. He'll just melt through the rope and appear on the BBC election show twenty minutes later.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

shaman75 said:


> Some issue in Newcastle under Lyme according to twitter, with students being turned away.
> 
> newcastle under lyme - Twitter Search



I think their ballot papers were eaten by the Swadlincote Panther: Has the elusive black panther been spotted in Swadlincote?


----------



## rekil (Jun 8, 2017)

Victory to the heroic, albeit reformist, comrades of Tyssen Community Primary School in Stoke Newington.


----------



## cantsin (Jun 8, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> Thanks for writing this post. I've given up being the other face of doom/hope on here. No matter what - something is in the air and we better make the most of it.



your / others on here 'face of doom' presence always valuable for us 'just this once ' brigade ( certainly for me ) - in the absence of time / space / energy to engage with other 'still not Lab' leftist sources, it acts as an easy to access break / limiter on any potential wholesale slide into the soc democratic abyss. I end up quoting / referencing irl .


----------



## cantsin (Jun 8, 2017)

shaman75 said:


> Some issue in Newcastle under Lyme according to twitter, with students being turned away.
> 
> newcastle under lyme - Twitter Search




also Plymouth as well, apparently little mobs of angry students around the p stations


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

cantsin said:


> also Plymouth as well, apparently little mobs of angry students around the p stations



Time to start the revolution..


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 8, 2017)

cantsin said:


> also Plymouth as well, apparently little mobs of angry students around the p stations



There's already been beef with missing postal votes in plymouth too. At least one tory/lab marginal there IIRC.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> There's already been beef with missing postal votes in plymouth too. At least one tory/lab marginal there IIRC.


Let's see what happens in bethnal green and bow, famous for its fraud, allegedly


----------



## 74drew (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## killer b (Jun 8, 2017)

Aren't postal voters as likely to be less mobile Tory voters as Labour students?


----------



## JTG (Jun 8, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> There's already been beef with missing postal votes in plymouth too. At least one tory/lab marginal there IIRC.


Two. Plymouth Moor View and Plymouth Sutton & Devonport are both very marginal


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 8, 2017)

100 minutes until Torygeddon. Hold each other tightly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> 100 minutes until Torygeddon. Hold each other tightly.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 8, 2017)

JTG said:


> Two. Plymouth Moor View and Plymouth Sutton & Devonport are both very marginal



Sabotage by the postal service? Let's face it, if it was one of us with a pile of them to deliver to houses in the bit of town with long driveways they might just find their way into the canal instead...


----------



## happie chappie (Jun 8, 2017)

Just finished door knocking in Notts - reported 85% student turnout!!


----------



## YouSir (Jun 8, 2017)

So, who's feeling optimistic then? Could do with a counterbalance.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 8, 2017)

bemused said:


> This is why I always make sure I have a polling card, gives you plenty of time to fix any issues.



Some were being turned away while they had their polling cards with them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Some were being turned away while they had their polling cards with them.


#brokenbritain

marty21


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 8, 2017)

YouSir said:


> So, who's feeling optimistic then? Could do with a counterbalance.


Reports of naked voter suppression are kind of depressing, but they show one thing - that tories or those acting on their behalf are worried they won't win this thing. 

Still thinking that a hung parliament is possible. I shall continue to think this for at least another 85 minutes.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

Spectator journo managing expectations...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Reports of naked voter suppression are kind of depressing, but they show one thing - that tories or those acting on their behalf are worried they won't win this thing.
> 
> Still thinking that a hung parliament is possible. I shall continue to think this for at least another 85 minutes.


Either that or the council's crap


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 8, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Either that or the council's crap



The latter is far more likely.

I mean, councils are a bit shit anyway. But round here it's certainly the case. In the EU Ref there were shenanigans too I seem to remember.


----------



## The39thStep (Jun 8, 2017)

happie chappie said:


> Just finished door knocking in Notts - reported 85% student turnout!!


Probably exceeds attendance at lectures


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Jun 8, 2017)

I really think that if there is a narrow tory majority we are embarking on the most widely detested government for generations.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 8, 2017)

Apparently Newcastle's got up-to-date lists now. Not sure how many will have given up and won't be checking online or whatever though. 

Gah. There were 650 votes in it last time ffs.


----------



## Who PhD (Jun 8, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Finally, a post of yours I can like!


fuck off wiht that patronising shit.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Apparently Newcastle's got up-to-date lists now. Not sure how many will have given up and won't be checking online or whatever though.
> 
> Gah. There were 650 votes in it last time ffs.


I was going to tell you what the Sentinal says, but you already know.

Anger as residents claim they are being denied vote after delay


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)

YouSir said:


> So, who's feeling optimistic then? Could do with a counterbalance.



My bet's coming in. Lab minority ftfw


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 8, 2017)

YouSir said:


> So, who's feeling optimistic then? Could do with a counterbalance.



I'm resolutely refusing to feel pessimistic. The vote today is included in tomorrow's fight! Rather than any particular result, I'm focusing on that (especially as I see, in certain "good results" the potential for a lot of the movement that's been committed the last few week) to go back to sleeping under a palm tree).


----------



## sealion (Jun 8, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> My bet's coming in. Lab minority ftfw


Only 6/1 now for a labour win. Tories are 1/16


----------



## voiceofreason (Jun 8, 2017)

YouSir said:


> So, who's feeling optimistic then? Could do with a counterbalance.



I seeing a lot of reports of exceptionally high turnouts. Certainly more optimistic now than I was earlier on.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)

sealion said:


> Only 6/1 now for a labour win. Tories are 1/16



6/1 for a minority? That's dropped from 10's this morning!


----------



## MochaSoul (Jun 8, 2017)

MochaSoul said:


> I'm resolutely refusing to feel pessimistic. The vote today is included in tomorrow's fight! Rather than any particular result, I'm focusing on that (especially as I see, in certain "good results" the potential for a lot of the movement that's been committed the last few week) to go back to sleeping under a palm tree).



Having said all of that, friend of mine shared "A change is gonna come" on FB. I shared it myself but feck, I keep thinking Barack Obama. He's succeeded in ruining the song for me (I keep having to remind myself it was Seal's version.... he's succeeded in ruining Seal for me)


----------



## sealion (Jun 8, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> 6/1 for a minority?


Yes mate. Seems to be shortening all the time.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)

sealion said:


> Yes mate. Seems to be shortening all the time.



Still 10's with PaddyPower, though hung parliament has dropped to 4/1


----------



## binka (Jun 8, 2017)

Fingers crossed for a minority government of any description so we can do this all again in six months time


----------



## sealion (Jun 8, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Still 10's with PaddyPower, though hung parliament has dropped to 4/1


There seems to be several markets on the go.
Labour minority now at to 16/1
Tory minority now at 12/1
Tory majority now at 2/11 
Hung (they should all be ) parliament now at 6/1


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2017)

Lab majority 16/1 surely?


----------



## sealion (Jun 8, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Lab majority 16/1 surely?


Next Government Betting Odds | UK Politics | Oddschecker


----------



## sealion (Jun 8, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Lab majority 16/1 surely?


22/1


----------



## cantsin (Jun 8, 2017)

Spreads saying 30 Tory gains, others saying 9% gap = 35% Lab = strong result


----------



## magneze (Jun 8, 2017)

Oh fuck here we go.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 8, 2017)

Here we go.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 8, 2017)

Holy shit - no overall majority.

Ah fuck, it's gonna be a long night!


----------



## emanymton (Jun 8, 2017)

What. YES!!


----------



## agricola (Jun 8, 2017)

Oh great, I have to be in work at half six in the morning.


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jun 8, 2017)

Wahey. Oh god please


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

....


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 8, 2017)

Shy Tories?


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 8, 2017)

Even so ...


----------



## killer b (Jun 8, 2017)

Fuuuuuuuuck!!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 8, 2017)

I _cannot _get excited about this. I mustn't.

I am.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 8, 2017)

Fucking hell, I cant stay up past about 12 because of my medication. I'll only find out fucking Sunderland


----------



## sheothebudworths (Jun 8, 2017)

Fucking HELL!!!     Omg!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2017)

excellent. Better not be a false hope. See how the results roll in


----------



## Ole (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## Maharani (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm gob smacked


----------



## Maharani (Jun 8, 2017)

In a gooooood way


----------



## J Ed (Jun 8, 2017)

I have to be up at 5am for work lol, fuck


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jun 8, 2017)

I think, regardless of whether the Tories are returned, May is comprehensively fucked. LOL


----------



## harpo (Jun 8, 2017)

I've taken tomorrow off.  Must moderate wine/weed intake for the next few hours.


----------



## Tankus (Jun 8, 2017)

fuck me too

...6.am work start for me  to ...I'm going in as a zombie


----------



## marty21 (Jun 8, 2017)

I'm heading to bed in a bit ,exit poll is lol for the Tories  (if it proves correct)


----------



## Dillinger4 (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## stethoscope (Jun 8, 2017)

Tomorrow booked off weeks ago


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 8, 2017)

eatmorecheese said:


> I think, regardless of whether the Tories are returned, May is comprehensively fucked. LOL


Turned out nice again

Perhaps


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 8, 2017)

Get in. Up for the all nighter here


----------



## Tankus (Jun 8, 2017)

well...... scottish independence  is off the cards


----------



## YouSir (Jun 8, 2017)

We shall see. Could be worse mind.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 8, 2017)

eatmorecheese said:


> I think, regardless of whether the Tories are returned, May is comprehensively fucked. LOL



Yes, and Corbyn comprehensively not-fucked.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2017)

nick robinson sounds a bit hoarse


----------



## AnnaKarpik (Jun 8, 2017)

This is so fucking exciting; close second is the best position in this election!


----------



## Cakes (Jun 8, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> nick robinson sounds a bit hoarse


And the night's young yet


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 8, 2017)

Dimbleby just said Amber Rudd might be in trouble. Poor lamb.


----------



## Tankus (Jun 8, 2017)

was that McDonnell laughing off  camera when dimbo cut away ?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2017)

please god yes amber rudd


----------



## redsquirrel (Jun 8, 2017)

Coalition of chaos here we come! 

Though worth bearing in mind that in 2015 while the exit polls were a lot more accurate than the pre-election polls they still underestimated the Tory vote a bit IIRC


----------



## Santino (Jun 8, 2017)

Someone lock this thread. aqua FridgeMagnet


----------



## binka (Jun 8, 2017)

stethoscope said:


> Tomorrow booked off weeks ago


Same here


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 8, 2017)




----------



## billy_bob (Jun 8, 2017)

It's all worth it so far for Kuenssberg's pursed lips.


----------

