# Apprentice 2011



## big eejit (May 3, 2011)

Another bunch of useless, deluded contestants demonstrate why global capitalism is in such a sorry state. And old wire-brush-head points out the obvious - that they're useless and deluded.

Meet the little charmers here:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/gallery/2011/may/03/the-apprentice-2011-candidates


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## weltweit (May 3, 2011)

With any luck I can avoid this again  

I hate arrogant people!


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## big eejit (May 3, 2011)

That's what makes it so much fun. It's hubris intit - classic entertaintment. (i.e. everyone watches it to see the arrogant buggers fuck up)


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## weltweit (May 3, 2011)

big eejit said:


> That's what makes it so much fun. It's hubris intit - classic entertaintment. (i.e. everyone watches it to see the arrogant buggers fuck up)


 
I just hate seeing them big themselves up about their massive achievements and such .. 

There is always one who already has a business which they claim is making millions which begs the question, what on earth are you doing on this program? 

It almost makes me ill !!!


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## FaNnYjUiCe (May 3, 2011)

As a man employed in the Sales & Marketing Industry, I find this the one and only time i will watch TV religiously.


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## weltweit (May 3, 2011)

FaNnYjUiCe said:


> As a man employed in the Sales & Marketing Industry, I find this the one and only time i will watch TV religiously.


 
As it happens, I work in Sales & Marketing also. 

But I fail to see what that has to do with the bluster and bullshit that this program usually contains!


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## FaNnYjUiCe (May 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> As it happens, I work in Sales & Marketing also.
> 
> But I fail to see what that has to do with the bluster and bullshit that this program usually contains!


 
LOL Really? I have a right old laugh myself, not one person I would employ from the sorry bunch but they dont half give some entertainment.


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## weltweit (May 3, 2011)

FaNnYjUiCe said:


> LOL Really? I have a right old laugh myself, not one person I would employ from the sorry bunch but they dont half give some entertainment.


 
Well, I did used to watch it and enjoy the outrage that it created in me .. But sometime after a few years worth I just found that I found it more annoying than entertaining. Perhaps I might give it another try this year, maybe !!


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## FaNnYjUiCe (May 3, 2011)

I think its just the competivness amongst that particular mindset, some golden moments, whens the next season start?


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## Santino (May 3, 2011)

I watch it religiously too. Two or three times a year and then I don't really think about it the rest of the time.


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## 8115 (May 3, 2011)

God, I had a look at the Guardian thing.  Seems like all the candidates went to the Staurt Baggs school of quotations.  My money's on the first girl.  Or the one who's the PA to the boss of Greggs.


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## Kid_Eternity (May 3, 2011)

Don't usually watch this but might have to now as I know one of the people on it...


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## isvicthere? (May 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I just hate seeing them big themselves up about their massive achievements and such ..



A few years ago, there was a contestant who - according to her own spiel - had achieved big style in the corporate world. I only found out recently that her boss was..... my brother. He told me she was belief-beggaringly pisspoor, and he'd had to move her five times before getting rid. She didn't win, but went quite far in the competition. Not sure if I should name her, but if anyone's interested, PM me. 

I think the enduring appeal of the Apprentice is the yawning Brent-like chasm between the contestants' gargantuan self regard and their actual abilities which range from the modest to the non-existent. I never miss it.


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## ebay sex moomin (May 3, 2011)

Gavin Winstanley- 'I want to be a big name in UK business… I'm everything. I'm all mouth. I'm a doer. I'm a leader.'

Someone clearly doesn't know what the phrase, "I'm all mouth" means


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## bi0boy (May 3, 2011)

ebay sex moomin said:


> Gavin Winstanley- 'I want to be a big name in UK business… I'm everything. I'm all mouth. I'm a doer. I'm a leader.'
> 
> Someone clearly doesn't know what the phrase, "I'm all mouth" means


 
I wonder if he's related to Gerrard?


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## sim667 (May 3, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I just hate seeing them big themselves up about their massive achievements and such ..
> 
> *There is always one who already has a business which they claim is making millions which begs the question, what on earth are you doing on this program?*
> 
> It almost makes me ill !!!



Because they havent quite grasped the concept of turnover vs profit.


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## paulhackett (May 9, 2011)

Nice interview with Nick Hewer in the grauniad today.. http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/2011/may/09/nick-hewer-apprentice-alan-sugar


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## dynamicbaddog (May 9, 2011)

I will be watching, but I hope they change the format a bit , last year  it was  getting  predictable...


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## QueenOfGoths (May 9, 2011)

It only seems like a few weeks since the last one ended.

Don't often watch it myself but Mr. QofG's does so he fills me in with what is happening. I am quite intrigued by the woman who has been "personally taught by Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama!"


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## paulhackett (May 9, 2011)

dynamicbaddog said:


> I will be watching, but I hope they change the format a bit , last year  it was  getting  predictable...



What sort of changes would you want? I'd like the return of Margaret (not a proper change, admittedly), the selling on TV task and losing people like Baggs much much earlier - not keen on the overtly self promotional/delusional nutjobs beyond week 6 or so


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## g force (May 9, 2011)

"hugely succesful salesperson"....no you're not, you're averagely successfully. Hugely successful salespeople wouldn't touch this programme because there's a shit, relatively poorly paid job at the end.


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## OneStrike (May 9, 2011)

I don't think there is a job at the end of this one, just a fat cheque iirc.


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## weltweit (May 9, 2011)

Thing is, to fully enter into the program you really have to get to know the candidates, and they are just not people in real life that I would piss on if they were on fire!


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## gaijingirl (May 9, 2011)

when is it on?


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## pianissimo (May 9, 2011)

Tomorrow I think.

One of the funniest comedies I won't miss.


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## Gromit (May 9, 2011)

Local rag did an article on whether or not one contestant's low cut top (in her publicity shots) is appropriate for the office


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## paulhackett (May 10, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Thing is, to fully enter into the program you really have to get to know the candidates, and they are just not people in real life that I would piss on if they were on fire!


 
Who would you piss on if they were on fire?
If I was on fire and someone pissed on me (rather than fetching water or a blanket), even on fire, I would think it a bit odd.
And would you be able to piss on someone if they were on fire? Physically. Angles and all that stuff.
And could you piss enough piss to put the fire out? You're on a burning plane, they're on fire, you pull your cock out.. it's not a good look is it? Or if you're a woman, straddle and go.. flames go upwards, you could set your privates on fire..

I'd go for the bucket or blanket option


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## TheNegotiator (May 10, 2011)

i heart the apprentice


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## Big Gunz (May 10, 2011)

I got told off for implying I'd tap Paloma last year.   I promise not to treat these people as sex objects.


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## ebay sex moomin (May 10, 2011)

Big Gunz said:


> I got told off for implying I'd tap Paloma last year.   I promise not to treat these people as sex objects.


I'll try not to do that too. I got a huge crush on one of last year's contestants, and frankly it became a bit embarrassing... but there was just something about them that I found deeply attractive


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## weltweit (May 10, 2011)

That photo makes me feel quite ill :-(


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## kabbes (May 10, 2011)

> 'I see my job as my complete life. I work 24/7. There isn't a cut off.'



Fuck me.  Everything wrong with the English-speaking world encapsulated in less than twenty words.


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## kabbes (May 10, 2011)

Starts today, by the way.


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## AKA pseudonym (May 10, 2011)

never seen it before, but as it happens I know one of them this year... 

though it will be iplayer for me as i will be watching even more carcrash on ITV...
hmm.. wonder is their a thread on that yet....


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## big eejit (May 10, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/tv-and-radio/tvandradioblog/2011/may/10/the-apprentice-live-blog


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## 8115 (May 10, 2011)

That sales director is Begby from trainspotting in disguise.  I keep expecting him to glass everyone.


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## binka (May 10, 2011)

good stuff so far, the soup is obviosuly going to be a disaster and they have bought far too many oranges


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## Ich bin ein Mod (May 10, 2011)

I love how none of them know how to make soup.


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## DJ Squelch (May 10, 2011)

8115 said:


> That sales director is Begby from trainspotting in disguise.  I keep expecting him to glass everyone.



I thought he was Private Walker from Dad's Army.

I like the inventor bloke so far, he seems quite un-dickheadish. (although he is obviously actually Simon Munnery in disguise)


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## trashpony (May 10, 2011)

They are all unbelievably stupid


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## binka (May 10, 2011)

the captain of the boys team is such a dick


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## 8115 (May 10, 2011)

I'm pretty sure that only spending half your potential investment money is not a great strategy.


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## blairsh (May 10, 2011)

binka said:


> the captain of the boys team is such a dick


 
oh my word isn't he just!


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## binka (May 10, 2011)

"what are you washing that up for? who cares!"
"you need to show a little bit more respect"
"im going to defuse the situation - do you want to come and help me over there"

fantastic


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## DexterTCN (May 10, 2011)

binka said:


> "what are you washing that up for? who cares!"
> "you need to show a little bit more respect"
> "im going to defuse the situation - do you want to come and help me over there"
> 
> fantastic


 
That little scene was side-splittingly horrible.


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## Spymaster (May 10, 2011)

"Roll with the punches"  
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





I fucking hate these people.


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## binka (May 10, 2011)

"i hand picked jim because i knew he was the man to lead the soup team"


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## Spymaster (May 10, 2011)

binka said:


> "i hand picked jim because i knew he was the man to lead the soup team"


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## binka (May 10, 2011)

if the apprentice in any way refelcted reality then the captain would be fired, but he obviosuly makes good tv so im fully expecting someone we havent even heard speak yet get fired


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## Spymaster (May 10, 2011)

Tonights project manager on the girls team is fit as fuck.

Shame she's also a total wanker who needs killing in the face.


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## DexterTCN (May 10, 2011)

Nah....kill a big one to make them all feel the fear.


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## binka (May 10, 2011)

thinking about it there was a quick shot of one of the men in the van not selling much soup and someone else said 'i thought hed be better'. think he might be the one to go whoever he is


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## sleaterkinney (May 10, 2011)

He's toast

edit, maybe not.....


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## 8115 (May 10, 2011)

He's going, Lord Sugar hates him.


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## binka (May 10, 2011)

"not only am i the youngest in the team... im the shortest"


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## 8115 (May 10, 2011)

"Not only am I the youngest in the team, I'm the shortest!

I'm going to be laughing for weeks about that.


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## sleaterkinney (May 10, 2011)

I'm the shortest.


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## Spymaster (May 10, 2011)

binka said:


> if the apprentice in any way refelcted reality then the captain would be fired...


 
If the apprentice in any way reflected reality, then Sugar would be giving them all a bollocking for losing shit loads of money. 

Six people make a 250 quid in profit in two days???

Congratulations, you're all on less than minimum wage!


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## DexterTCN (May 10, 2011)

Sugar's a shortist?


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## binka (May 10, 2011)

surprised he's been fired tbh he made good tv usually they keep the shit but entertaining ones in like baggs the brand


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## DexterTCN (May 10, 2011)

He'll already know what the others are like though.


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## smmudge (May 10, 2011)

Haha that guy was so pissed off. I thought he was going to burst into tears at one point.

Why is the taxi light always on at the end? It would be a bit annoying if someone else came along and got in it. They'd have to wait for another one.


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## big eejit (May 10, 2011)

binka said:


> the captain of the boys team is such a dick



After 10 mins of tonight's show I tweeted:

*Accountant bloke ed on #theapprentice is doomed. Absolutely fucked.*


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## tommers (May 10, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Tonights project manager on the girls team is fit as fuck.
> 
> Shame she's also a total wanker who needs killing in the face.



She's been personally taught by Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama.


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## Spymaster (May 10, 2011)

tommers said:


> She's been personally taught by Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama.


 
See my second sentence that you quote!


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## tommers (May 10, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> See my second sentence that you quote!



But she's dealt with 140 Nobel Prize Winners!!!


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## spanglechick (May 10, 2011)

I quite fancy Thomas, the geeky inventor. His comment about 'beneath the glasses is a core of steel' or whatever was blatantly a pisstake.


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## Spymaster (May 10, 2011)

tommers said:


> But she's dealt with 140 Nobel Prize Winners!!!





> Melody speaks about how she was born 'amongst war' in Iran and says she was kidnapped and held at gunpoint in her own home. She wants to be more than just average, as 'average was never good enough...'



If you can bare to watch: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p00grhpf


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## Kid_Eternity (May 10, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Tonights project manager on the girls team is fit as fuck.
> 
> Shame she's also a total wanker who needs killing in the face.


 
She's the one I know. Sharp as hell in real life, good negotiator, she'll do well on this I reckon.


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## kabbes (May 10, 2011)

I just don't understand how people reach their collective ages with so few basic life skills.  Skills like being able to recognise an orange.


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## belboid (May 10, 2011)

Edna must die. Preferably killed by a weak handshake


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## pianissimo (May 10, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I just don't understand how people reach their collective ages with so few basic life skills.  Skills like being able to* recognise an orange*.


 
That  and have never made soup before!
Hilarious.


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## Gromit (May 10, 2011)

tommers said:


> She's been personally taught by Desmond Tutu and the Dalai Lama.


 
Both of which are total sharks in the consumer electronics market. Lord Sugar has gone to battle with both many times.


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## joustmaster (May 11, 2011)

belboid said:


> Edna must die. Preferably killed by a weak handshake


 
people who say they are a "great people person" are usually a megabellend


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## weltweit (May 11, 2011)

Yet another bunch of big head losers .. is this really the best that the BBC can select from the nation? I bet even the selection skills of jury service could come up with a better bunch than this!


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## Me76 (May 11, 2011)

I think it was the "speaking in semaphore" In the boardroom and denying his accountancy background in the boardroom that did it for Edward.


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## magneze (May 11, 2011)

Short man syndrome, writ ... err ... large.


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## Part 2 (May 11, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> She's the one I know.


 
That's quite a confession  She was pretty unbearable from what we saw last night, the stand out irritant.


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## belboid (May 11, 2011)

Me76 said:


> I think it was the "speaking in semaphore" In the boardroom and denying his accountancy background in the boardroom that did it for Edward.


 
Not the fact that he was utterly useless as PM, who couldn't organise a fight in the middle of a nazi rally, despite his repeated desire to roll with the punches, then?


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## belboid (May 11, 2011)

Chip Barm said:


> That's quite a confession  She was pretty unbearable from what we saw last night, the stand out irritant.


 
hmmm, probly only cos most of the women shut up/were cut out in the edit


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## Me76 (May 11, 2011)

belboid said:


> Not the fact that he was utterly useless as PM, who couldn't organise a fight in the middle of a nazi rally, despite his repeated desire to roll with the punches, then?


 
A lot of PMs have survived the boardroom with just as bad a performance.  

I work on the assumption that they are all entirely useless, arrogant prats and it is only a matter of time before they all show them selves for what they really are. The performance in the boardroom can sometimes kill them if they get up Alan's nose though.


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## Part 2 (May 11, 2011)

belboid said:


> hmmm, probly only cos most of the women shut up/were cut out in the edit


 
You have a point.


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## kabbes (May 11, 2011)

It's almost impossible to sift through so many delicious ironies and such a soup of unselfawareness, but possibly my favourite was the fact that Edna proclaimed herself to be an HR guru and then in the _very next edit_ she was giving it large about how "weak people in business are a waste of space" and "a  limp handshake is unforgiveable".

Brilliant.  Chris Morris himself couldn't have produced a finer satire.


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## hammerntongues (May 11, 2011)

A lot of the idiotness may be manufactured in the editing room but this lot must make the job very easy , their little cameo headshots where they tell you about themselves must surely be a pisstake , does anyone still believe that those characteristics are desirable ? Its addictive watching , the inventor guy sounds good but he was right up Sugars arse , " sorry Lord Sugar " when he left the boardroom .


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## kabbes (May 11, 2011)

No matter how well edited, the fact is that these people said and did these things.  You could film me for three months 24/7 and you'll never get a recording of me saying that weak people in business are a waste of space.


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## joustmaster (May 11, 2011)

hammerntongues said:


> A lot of the idiotness may be manufactured in the editing room but this lot must make the job very easy , their little cameo headshots where they tell you about themselves must surely be a pisstake , does anyone still believe that those characteristics are desirable ? Its addictive watching , the inventor guy sounds good but he was right up Sugars arse , " sorry Lord Sugar " when he left the boardroom .


 maybe he had just farted.


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## belboid (May 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> you'll never get a recording of me saying that weak people in business are a waste of space.


 
if only cos any good business person knows damn well that they aren't a waste at all, they're a damn fine opportunity


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## Sweet FA (May 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> No matter how well edited, the fact is that these people said and did these things.  You could film me for three months 24/7 and you'll never get a recording of me saying that weak people in business are a waste of space.


Unless they asked you something like 'What's the worst thing you've ever heard an HR guru say?'


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## Hassan I Sabha (May 11, 2011)

The Irish guy who managed to get all the soup ingrediants for £50 seemed to be pretty good and I bet will be in the final few


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## weltweit (May 11, 2011)

I get the impression that there are: 

1) a group of people who could actually be credible as business apprentices 

2) a group of people who are outrageously arrogant and bigoted and will appear that way on tv 

And that the apprentice volunteers are either all from group 2, or mostly from group 2.


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## Kid_Eternity (May 11, 2011)

Chip Barm said:


> That's quite a confession  She was pretty unbearable from what we saw last night, the stand out irritant.


 
Heh she's not like that in person.


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## Augie March (May 11, 2011)

These are quite possibly the two worst apps ever created.


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## paulhackett (May 11, 2011)

That Dean Gaffney lookalike was better in the Jungle. Needs a haircut and a shave too..


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 11, 2011)

Augie March said:


> These are quite possibly the two worst apps ever created.


 
Yep


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## janeb (May 11, 2011)

Just switched on during the pitch - why was Edna wearing long black leather gloves ?


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## mack (May 11, 2011)

How the fuck did the girls win that?


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## binka (May 11, 2011)

the boys team captain is so weak, he couldnt even make a decision who to bring back to the boardroom


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## spanglechick (May 11, 2011)

mack said:


> How the fuck did the girls win that?


 
'Wired' app of the day.


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## mack (May 11, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> 'Wired' app of the day.



Aha - missed that bit - that must have got them loads of downloads.


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## big eejit (May 11, 2011)

Commanding display by Jim. He sussed that the best plan is not to go in the boardroom at all and made it clear what a mistake it would be to bring him in. He'll go far.


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## trashpony (May 11, 2011)

big eejit said:


> Commanding display by Jim. He sussed that the best plan is not to go in the boardroom at all and made it clear what a mistake it would be to bring him in. He'll go far.



I like Jim. And the geeky bloke. I don't know any women that I like as yet, they're focusing on the shrill annoying ones


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## binka (May 11, 2011)

this one seems like she might not be so annoying http://www.bbc.co.uk/apprentice/series7/ellie-reed.shtml not heard much from her yet though so that opinion is subject to change


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## Me76 (May 12, 2011)

Jim was amazing in the board room last night. 

I like the Liverpudlian bloke too. 

In the boardroom last night there were three of the girls that I don't think I've heard speak yet.


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## LJo (May 12, 2011)

Jim has got Jedi mind-powers.

'Bringing me into the boardroom is the wrong decision.'
'Yes, bringing Jim into the boardroom is the wrong decision.'

I want him to do them on Lord Sugar next. Maybe he could make him take off all his clothes and stick a plastic rose up his arsehole while singing: 'It's a Long Way To Tipperary.'


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## Gromit (May 12, 2011)

Jim is not the droid contestant I'm looking for. 


Did you see the next guy think, if it worked for Jim it will work for me. Only it didn't.


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## kabbes (May 12, 2011)

The Jim as Jedi thing would be funnier, to be fair, if they hadn't already made the exact same joke (including the "not the droids" line) on the "You're Fired" BBC2 aftershow.


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## weltweit (May 12, 2011)

All this effort and just for a £250k investment and business partner, you can get that and more on Dragon's Den in a fraction of the time!


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## magneze (May 12, 2011)

I think that all people on Dragon's Den work on their idea a lot longer tbh.


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## kabbes (May 12, 2011)

The prize is a bit bizarre all round, really.  You can't just get an investment and then think of an idea.  You have to have an idea and then work out the investment requirements.  Do these people already have a business idea that they need £250k for?  Or are they hoping to win the competition then work it out afterwards?


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## LJo (May 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> The Jim as Jedi thing would be funnier, to be fair, if they hadn't already made the exact same joke (including the "not the droids" line) on the "You're Fired" BBC2 aftershow.


 
Gah. I didn't even watch bloody You're Fired and now everyone thinks I am stealing their jokes.


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## kabbes (May 12, 2011)

Yeah, I guessed you hadn't seen it


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## Me76 (May 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> The prize is a bit bizarre all round, really.  You can't just get an investment and then think of an idea.  You have to have an idea and then work out the investment requirements.  Do these people already have a business idea that they need £250k for?  Or are they hoping to win the competition then work it out afterwards?


 
I think I remember one of the blokes talking to another in the car about some random thing he could go into business with Sugar with - which did give the impression that they would be thinking about it afterwards. 

I wonder if they knew the prize had changed when they applied, I can imagine them changing it half way through the application process.


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## Santino (May 12, 2011)

Their actual business idea might be the final task. Or it could be designing a new hot drink. Either way.


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## Gromit (May 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Yeah, I guessed you hadn't seen it


 
I'm watching it tonight. Taped it whilst watching series 1 of the Sopranos on Atlantic.


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## kabbes (May 12, 2011)

Me76 said:


> I think I remember one of the blokes talking to another in the car about some random thing he could go into business with Sugar with - which did give the impression that they would be thinking about it afterwards.


 
In which case, we have the bizarre situation of a man deciding what business venture to go into based on the reality-show performance of the ventures' creators rather than the strength of the venture itself.

And the concept of it being an "apprentice" is rather blown out of the water too.  Although that's mere pedantry, I suppose.


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## Gromit (May 12, 2011)

Santino said:


> Their actual business idea might be the final task. Or it could be designing a new hot drink. Either way.


 
No good as a final task as how would bringing back past contestants fit into that?


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## Santino (May 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> In which case, we have the bizarre situation of a man deciding what business venture to go into based on the reality-show performance of the ventures' creators rather than the strength of the venture itself.


 
It's the exact model that 'The Restaurant' used.


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## kabbes (May 12, 2011)

Is it?  Sounds shit.

Mind you, presumably they at least knew that they wanted to run a restaurant.


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## Santino (May 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Is it?  Sounds shit.
> 
> Mind you, presumably they at least knew that they wanted to run a restaurant.


 
Some of them wanted to run a cocktail bar, and they won the last series. It was so shit.


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## Me76 (May 12, 2011)

I just remembered the excellent expression on Edna's face last night after Melody said they had been trounced - twas hysterical.  By the way, what were the gloves about?  Did she think she was presenting to a load of Tory MPs and was going for the Miss Whiplash look?


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## kabbes (May 12, 2011)

The gloves are part of a wider and persistent problem that Apprentice candidates seem to suffer from -- misdirected corporateness.  They insist on wearing suits and using the most horrendous business speak even when dealing with people who will be totally turned off by it.

That was one thing that the boys actually _did_ manage to get right last night.  They at least managed to suggest with their demo that their product was a bit of a laugh.


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## Santino (May 12, 2011)

That bit when she went 'I'm going to share a secret with you, and with you, and with you...' was I think the lowest point of my life so far.


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## kabbes (May 12, 2011)

Santino said:


> That bit when she went 'I'm going to share a secret with you, and with you, and with you...' was I think the lowest point of my life so far.


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## big eejit (May 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> The prize is a bit bizarre all round, really.  You can't just get an investment and then think of an idea.  You have to have an idea and then work out the investment requirements.  Do these people already have a business idea that they need £250k for?  Or are they hoping to win the competition then work it out afterwards?


 
The £250K 'investment' seems wobbly to me. I'm sure they said at one point last night summat like the winner would receive "£250k in cash and time". 

So basically Sugar's going to invest a lot less cash and say the rest of it is made up by his time. Small print.


----------



## kabbes (May 12, 2011)

Genius.

Basically, reading between the lines, the winners have proved a succession of total losers as employees.  Sugar doesn't want to pay them good money and have them hanging around any more so they've found this way of fobbing them off instead.


----------



## scooter (May 12, 2011)

I thought it was going to be Sugar's business idea and the winner was just in charge of implementing it. That's why he's putting up the money.

Is it Sugar's 250k anyway or is it BBC money? Or maybe half and half?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 12, 2011)

The Apprentice - It's a knockout for posh kids.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 12, 2011)

Nanker Phelge said:


> posh kids.



Are we watching the same programme?


----------



## toblerone3 (May 12, 2011)

The project manager last night had a tic. He unnecessarily flipped back his hair. He was quite posh I thought.   And I thought he was very lucky not to get fired.   In his defence I felt that the boys team were quite united and agreed on a plan but their idea of an ap was just a bit crap. The girl's ap was also crap but they got slightly more airhead technology zombies to download it.

How many people outside the UK downloaded the girl's ampy-apps ap I wonder.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 12, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Are we watching the same programme?


 
Probably. It's called the Apprentice. Was on BBC 1 at 9 on Monday and Tuesday. Had loads of smart arses making fools of themselves in a bid to be less foolish than the next la la loon.


----------



## Paul Russell (May 14, 2011)

I was a bit pissed when I watched episode 2 but didn't LordSugar say something about it being a task anyone could do as you can just put it on the web for free. Surely that's bollocks - you would have to get someone to design the app and that would cost a packet, wouldn't it? It's not the same as buying a load of fruit/fish, etc. and selling it dahn the market...


----------



## isvicthere? (May 16, 2011)

Santino said:


> That bit when she went 'I'm going to share a secret with you, and with you, and with you...' was I think the lowest point of my life so far.


 
 and mine. And his. And theirs.


----------



## isvicthere? (May 16, 2011)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Probably. It's called the Apprentice. Was on BBC 1 at 9 on Monday and Tuesday. Had loads of smart arses making fools of themselves in a bid to be less foolish than the next la la loon.


 
That sounds very similar to a programme that was on BBC1 on Tuesday and Wednesday at 9.


----------



## pianissimo (May 16, 2011)

Gosh, that was awful.  Her 'presentation' was shit, pointless, dated, embarrassing, didn't even tell the audience where/how to download the app.
And what's with the gloves?  Gee...


----------



## Chester Copperpot (May 18, 2011)

Shopping task tonight


----------



## gosub (May 18, 2011)

Looking forward to Jim turning up with 10 non list items and explaining to Sugar that his stuff is what he really wanted


----------



## kabbes (May 18, 2011)

Women and minorities have an inbuilt institutional disadvantage on this task.  Evidence shows that white men are statistically offered as _starting_ prices better than women and those from minority groups can achieve even as a _final_ price.

For example.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (May 18, 2011)

maybe sugar will mix the teams up?

i am exciting  the apprentice is my guilty treat...


----------



## Me76 (May 18, 2011)

He has to I think cos the boys are two down so it would be uneven.


----------



## N_igma (May 18, 2011)

Yer fella Jim used to work on my great Aunty's farm woo hoo lol!


----------



## isvicthere? (May 18, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> Gosh, that was awful.  Her 'presentation' was *shit, pointless, dated, embarrassing*, didn't even tell the audience where/how to download the app.
> And what's with the gloves?  Gee...



At what "date" would it not have been "shit, pointless and embarrassing"?


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Women and minorities have an inbuilt institutional disadvantage on this task.  Evidence shows that white men are statistically offered as _starting_ prices better than women and those from minority groups can achieve even as a _final_ price.
> 
> For example.


 
well, that'll be true for whoever he goes into businesss with, so the women will have to just bloody well buckle down and get on with it anyhows.  It is a good reason why the team should be desegregated from this point tho.

And, of course, the problem with statistics like that is they start from generalities about the population as a whole, whereas there's no way this group of people are anything like the population as a whole.


----------



## 8115 (May 18, 2011)

I love the buying task.  My favourite moment is when they always decide "lets just go and do it along the way".  It's guaranteed carnage from then on.


----------



## binka (May 18, 2011)

why do they always go to really fancy shops? they want to get down the east end which i hear is full of ne'er do wells who will sell you knock off gear for a fraction of the price you'd pay 'up west'


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2011)

Oh how I love the shopping task.

Gavin is fucked, isn't he?

Never realised blonde lass is good n northern, I like her now


----------



## binka (May 18, 2011)

hah at the £900 for the tea


----------



## junglevip (May 18, 2011)

Girls are quite pretty, why did'nt they do a bit of shoplifting?

Thats all


----------



## belboid (May 18, 2011)

Who are the two dark haired lasses? I gabby seen or heard anything from either of them


----------



## junglevip (May 18, 2011)

.


----------



## Stoat Boy (May 19, 2011)

Only caught the last part of the show last night. Out of interest were they not allowed to go to Smithfield meat market for the steak ? Did they have to get it from a Butchers ?


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> Only caught the last part of the show last night. Out of interest were they not allowed to go to Smithfield meat market for the steak ? Did they have to get it from a Butchers ?


 
At a guess: by the time they'd worked it all out it may have been that the meat markets were basically closed.  Gavin didn't get out of there until after 11am!


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

Surprising lack of comment anywhere, including the aftershow, about the ASTONISHING ability of Jim to get an extra £10 off a price that he had _already agreed_.  And to do so whilst making the vendor laugh!  Good negotiation is one thing, but that's just freakishly good. 

And without that extra £10, they would have lost the task!


----------



## LJo (May 19, 2011)

I'm actually getting quite scared of Jim's weird powers of suggestion. I hope he chooses to use them for good.


----------



## Santino (May 19, 2011)

Jim is actually a part of the current Doctor Who story arc. The whole Apprentice phenomenon has just been part of a very slow-burning Doctor Who story.


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

LJo said:


> I'm actually getting quite scared of Jim's weird powers of suggestion. I hope he chooses to use them for good.


 I know!

Can you imagine beating somebody down in price WAY below what they wanted and then going to pay and saying that you'll give them a tenner less than that, actually, and have them agree and apparently think you're a jolly good fellow for being such a character?

This is so far outside my realm of experience of negotiating that I just find myself going "buh buh buh".

ETA: Did you notice that Stupid Edna (which I believe is her official name) tried to fuck it all up too, by jumping in and offering more?  And that Jim managed to close her down with a _word_?


----------



## magneze (May 19, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Surprising lack of comment anywhere, including the aftershow, about the ASTONISHING ability of Jim to get an extra £10 off a price that he had _already agreed_.  And to do so whilst making the vendor laugh!  Good negotiation is one thing, but that's just freakishly good.
> 
> And without that extra £10, they would have lost the task!


How much would he have got the tea for?


----------



## wayward bob (May 19, 2011)

i literally couldn't watch this for the  last night. i had a pillow over my head at one point


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

We need to splice Jim the Buyer with Badger the Seller to create the ultimate negotiator, who we should then send to all global trouble spots.


----------



## LJo (May 19, 2011)

I always think of Evil Edna out of Willo the Wisp. Especially since the gloves.


----------



## strung out (May 19, 2011)

i was astounded that despite how atrociously bad gavin's team was, they still only managed to lose by £8. i'm surprised more wasn't made of that in the aftershow tbh.


----------



## Me76 (May 19, 2011)

I think I love Jim a little bit.  His powers are truely awesome.


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

strung out said:


> i was astounded that despite how atrociously bad gavin's team was, they still only managed to lose by £8. i'm surprised more wasn't made of that in the aftershow tbh.


 
Don't foget that Susie's team paid £410 for some tea.  Without that little beauty, they were winning quite heavily.


----------



## Santino (May 19, 2011)

Come on, who here hasn't paid £410 for some tea at least once in their lives?


----------



## Orangesanlemons (May 19, 2011)

Rare tea woman is on twitter, wearily having to justify for the twentieth time why her teas cost so much.
Apparantly it's because they're rare, or something...


----------



## belboid (May 19, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Don't foget that Susie's team paid £410 for some tea.  Without that little beauty, they were winning quite heavily.


 
They grossly overpaid on other things too. Take out the 200 they overpaid for the tea, and the 200 the others got fined, and they'd still be neck and neck


----------



## belboid (May 19, 2011)

Orangesanlemons said:


> Rare tea woman is on twitter, wearily having to justify for the twentieth time why her teas cost so much.
> Apparantly it's because they're rare, or something...


 
the woman in the other shop who answered 'its for a really important client' with "why should that matter to me?" was brilliant. Sugar should go into partnership with her


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

belboid said:


> They grossly overpaid on other things too. Take out the 200 they overpaid for the tea, and the 200 the others got fined, and they'd still be neck and neck



Don't forget that Venture also got a fine.  4 items missed versus 1 item missed -- I think the fine was about £50 per item.  Net off the fines and the tea and Venture still won by a reasonable margin.

Besides, the whole point is that Venture managed to get 9 items in the time it took Logic to get 6.  That's 50% more that they sourced!  If they had 50% more time available to them per successfully purchased item then maybe they'd have done even better?


----------



## Gromit (May 19, 2011)

Fines were, per item, the hotel list price plus £50.

Haven't watched the whole programme (as I couldn't get my hotel TV to work for half an hour) but I caught that much.


----------



## Orangesanlemons (May 19, 2011)

She was awesome. I almost cheered at that point.


(that was to belboid btw, still messing up this new quote system!)


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

Venture should have not bothered buying the tea.  They'd have been better off with the £50 fine!


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

Incidentally, did anybody else notice that they apparently bought 12.5kg of tea rather than the requested 10kg?  If that's true, there's a 25% overpayment straight off!


----------



## pianissimo (May 19, 2011)

belboid said:


> the woman in the other shop who answered 'its for a really important client' with "why should that matter to me?" was brilliant. Sugar should go into partnership with her


 
Totally agree.  The shop keeper was brilliant.  I was disappointed of Susan's negotiating skill.  She also only managed to take a penny off the tophat while on the other team, the dark hair girl was smooth and quick to take £5 (I believe) off the price saying something like lets have a round/smooth/clean number and bought it for £360.


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> Totally agree.  The shop keeper was brilliant.  I was disappointed of Susan's negotiating skill.  She also only managed to take a penny off the tophat while on the other team, the dark hair girl was smooth and quick to take £5 (I believe) off the price saying something like lets have a round/smooth/clean number and bought it for £360.


 
... but they still paid more for their top hat!  Venture did better by identifying two shops and going for the cheaper one than Logic did by picking one shop and negotiating.

Personally, I'd have phoned round Moss Bros and looked for a second hand one (the instructions did specify new or second hand).  But maybe that's just me


----------



## pianissimo (May 19, 2011)

I was quite shocked to see they'd go to Mayfair and that rare posh tea house.  Didn't they watch the previous series and learn not to go to the most expensive places to buy stuff?!  And when they called the shops, could they not ask for the prices of things already and not be shocked on how much they'd cost when they got there???
Tea wise, my first instinct was chinatown or soho.  They obviously don't know london much.

And why didn't they google?
Is that the rule not to use the latest technology? Who use phonebook these days?


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

There simply must be a no-internet rule.  Otherwise the whole thing makes no sense.


----------



## Santino (May 19, 2011)

The researchers must pat them down for smartphones every day. That will also stop them calling up friends to come and buy some shit off them.


----------



## Me76 (May 19, 2011)

Plus they would have worked out what a cloche was!


----------



## pianissimo (May 19, 2011)

What is the point of the task then?
To see how resourceful and knowledgeable you are without the internet?
(besides, of course negotiating skills and such)

Just that it seems a bit of an unrealistic exercise in the techie world we're living in now.


----------



## magneze (May 19, 2011)

belboid said:


> the woman in the other shop who answered 'its for a really important client' with "why should that matter to me?" was brilliant. Sugar should go into partnership with her


That bit was really good.


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> What is the point of the task then?
> To see how resourceful and knowledgeable you are without the internet?
> (besides, of course negotiating skills and such)
> 
> Just that it seems a bit of an unrealistic exercise in the techie world we're living in now.


 
The point of all the tasks is entertainment.

If it were a genuine interview process then it would be the worst process imaginable.  Each task involves a massive dollop of luck, for a start.  Sometimes the luck outweighs all other factors.  Then you have the well-documented problems with using team-based tasks for individual assessment.  And on it goes and on and on.

Best to think of it as a game show with a cunning plot to hang the games off.


----------



## pianissimo (May 19, 2011)

Yea.
Pretty good prize for a game though.
£250K to start up a business.


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> Yea.
> Pretty good prize for a game though.
> £250K to start up a business.


 
It's not thought.

For a start, Sugar owns it 50-50.  So we're down to £125k.

Then there is the fact that, as discussed, there seems to be some doubt about how much of the £250k is cash and how much is time.  Even if we're generous and say it's 80/20 in favour of cash, we're now down to £100k.

For that £100k, the winning contestant is going to have to drop everything and put their all into running a new business that has no guarantee of success and certainly no guarantee of earning them a wage.

And on top of all that, they're going to have to work with Alan Sugar.

Doesn't seem the best prize to me.


----------



## pianissimo (May 19, 2011)

Do they have to drop everything?
Some have their own business already.  I can't imagine they'd give up their own companies just like that.  I'd think it'd be a better prize for those who are on a lower salary as employees.


----------



## kabbes (May 19, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> Do they have to drop everything?
> Some have their own business already.  I can't imagine they'd give up their own companies just like that.  I'd think it'd be a better prize for those who are on a lower salary as employees.


 
We'll see, I guess.  But somebody becoming a silent partner for the sake of £200k cash in a business you're going to have to run is not in and of itself the best thing that could happen to you.  You could well end up with nothing to show for it several wasted years down the line.


----------



## ebay sex moomin (May 21, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> when they called the shops, could they not ask for the prices of things already and not be shocked on how much they'd cost when they got there???
> 
> And why didn't they google?


 I was listening to Tony Livesey's show last Wednesday, and Liz and Jamie from last year's Apprentice were on, commenting about the task. They said that neither of these things are allowed- so yeah, it's all about the phone books, and turning up and being shocked at the price. Essentially, it's a negotiating task- you're going in blind and then trying to get whatever discount you can.


----------



## Ms T (May 21, 2011)

Orangesanlemons said:


> Rare tea woman is on twitter, wearily having to justify for the twentieth time why her teas cost so much.
> Apparantly it's because they're rare, or something...


 

The irony though is that the top restaurants and hotels all stock tea from the Rare Tea Company!  It really is some of the best tea money can buy.


----------



## Orangesanlemons (May 21, 2011)

Ms T said:


> The irony though is that the top restaurants and hotels all stock tea from the Rare Tea Company!  It really is some of the best tea money can buy.


 
True, and a lot of very good places did rush to her defence. I bet she now regrets allowing herself to be featured though, particularly outside a pub and then offering such a large discount.


----------



## Ms T (May 21, 2011)

Orangesanlemons said:


> True, and a lot of very good places did rush to her defence. I bet she now regrets allowing herself to be featured though, particularly outside a pub and then offering such a large discount.


 
Possibly.  I know her IRL and she's very savvy and extremely charming.


----------



## DexterTCN (May 25, 2011)

This is going to go well.

Not.


----------



## binka (May 25, 2011)

poor old susie. they've been slagging her off and they don't even know if they've lost yet


----------



## Part 2 (May 25, 2011)

PM to go...can't even be decisive on who she's taking into the boardroom


----------



## binka (May 25, 2011)

shes made a terrible error in trying to pin this on the northern one


----------



## al (May 25, 2011)

I wish they wouldn't be so bloody reasonable when they get fired - I want to see someone dragged out of there by security, kicking, swearing and promising to eat someone's children...


----------



## DexterTCN (May 25, 2011)

The other team must be laughing their arses off that they won that.


----------



## kabbes (May 26, 2011)

*Never* claim to be an expert on *anything* in 'Prentice!  From "knowing Birmingham" to being a skin cream specialist, you're *always* doomed!


----------



## weltweit (May 26, 2011)

£250 profit .. 

And for free: 
six or seven people all day 
A retail unit in a busy shopping centre 
Treatment rooms in the same 

Real / actual profit - non existant!


----------



## Santino (May 26, 2011)

That was less entertaining than it could have been because I didn't know who half the women were, due to the lack of character development in previous episodes.


----------



## 19sixtysix (May 26, 2011)

This show is a perfect warning about how any idiot can set up a "treatment centre" and enter the world on beauty quackery.


----------



## weltweit (May 26, 2011)

19sixtysix said:


> This show is a perfect warning about how any idiot can set up a "treatment centre" and enter the world on beauty quackery.


 
Indeed. I was wondering how many employers would leave one female worker in a remote treatment room with two male clients. As it happens someone else turned up but I wonder what the policy of a genuine employer would have been.


----------



## Santino (May 26, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Indeed. I was wondering how many employers would leave one female worker in a remote treatment room with two male clients. As it happens someone else turned up but I wonder what the policy of a genuine employer would have been.


 
There was a camera crew present.


----------



## strung out (May 26, 2011)

biggest lol of the show was jim poking his head round the door saying four hands were better than two, with a crazed glint in his eye and the crushing disappointment of the two lads as they realised they weren't getting their massage treatment from the hot girl who showed them up


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 26, 2011)

kabbes said:


> *Never* claim to be an expert on *anything* in 'Prentice!  From "knowing Birmingham" to being a skin cream specialist, you're *always* doomed!



This



19sixtysix said:


> This show is a perfect warning about how any idiot can set up a "treatment centre" and enter the world on beauty quackery.



and this, though my pasty white goth skin was drawn to the spray tanning booth


----------



## Gromit (May 26, 2011)

strung out said:


> biggest lol of the show was jim poking his head round the door saying four hands were better than two, with a crazed glint in his eye and the crushing disappointment of the two lads as they realised they weren't getting their massage treatment from the hot girl who showed them up


 
The haste they left with afterwards raised a smile from me also.


----------



## smmudge (May 27, 2011)

I wonder what Suzy has been doing for the last 3 years? Not sure I could hazard a guess, she never even hinted at it really.


----------



## 19sixtysix (May 27, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> ...though my pasty white goth skin was drawn to the spray tanning booth



Just remember how skilled a job it is to create an even spray. With those idiots you'd probably come out like a mottled orange.


----------



## isvicthere? (May 27, 2011)

smmudge said:


> I wonder what Suzy has been doing for the last 3 years? Not sure I could hazard a guess, she never even hinted at it really.


 
Didn't she go - or so she claimed in her modest preamble - to 'one of the best universities in the world?'


----------



## big eejit (May 27, 2011)

Last ep was pretty boring I thought. They hardly had any footage of the losing team's day. Was like someone had accidentally deleted half the day's filming and they just thought fuck it, we'll press on and hope no-one notices. 

Lots of dross to sack before we can see if anyone can compete with Jim.


----------



## smmudge (May 27, 2011)

isvicthere? said:


> Didn't she go - or so she claimed in her modest preamble - to 'one of the best universities in the world?'


 
Maybe, before she became an Avon lady I guess.


----------



## isvicthere? (May 27, 2011)

smmudge said:


> Maybe, before she became an Avon lady I guess.


----------



## pianissimo (May 27, 2011)

To be fair, because of Suzy they got the spray tan treatment which made the biggest profits and won the task.


----------



## binka (Jun 1, 2011)

catsize - watch their light was such a dreadful idea. however its funny watching vincent in the boardroom so wont complain too much


----------



## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

vincent has to go really, though i wouldn't be surprised to see natalie go either.


----------



## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

he just used the phrase 'melting pot'


----------



## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

strung out said:


> vincent has to go really, though i wouldn't be surprised to see natalie go either.


 
shows how much i know


----------



## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

shit!


----------



## binka (Jun 1, 2011)

hah. thought he was safe then shot him right down


----------



## binka (Jun 1, 2011)

feel sorry for ellie she seems quite normal


----------



## strung out (Jun 1, 2011)

binka said:


> feel sorry for ellie she seems quite normal


 
not good telly though


----------



## Santino (Jun 1, 2011)

Are they turning Jim into the villain?


----------



## binka (Jun 1, 2011)

Santino said:


> Are they turning Jim into the villain?


 hope so. its now been made clear alan doesnt like him very much, wondering if the others might now have the balls to take him on? probably not tbh


----------



## starfish (Jun 1, 2011)

@ Vincent


----------



## starfish (Jun 1, 2011)

.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 1, 2011)

I loved the mp's ten second pause when mulling over a consumer group tested name,  and the one that he thought up.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 2, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> I loved the mp's ten second pause when mulling over a consumer group tested name,  and the one that he thought up.


 
it was unutterably bizarre though, 'lucky fish'.


----------



## strung out (Jun 2, 2011)

yeah, cat size was much better than lucky fish tbf


----------



## Gromit (Jun 2, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> it was unutterably bizarre though, 'lucky fish'.


 
Silly names aren't always a bad thing. They can be eye catching.

How about "Goldfish" for a credit card, or "Egg" for a bank!

Here is a really silly one, they sell Computers yeah... and they are called Apple. I mean come on. Apple. Whats that got to do with computing.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2011)

Sugar wouldn't have liked Lucky Fish.  It's Sugar that they have to impress, not the actual buying public.


----------



## strung out (Jun 2, 2011)

it's not just that it's a bit of a whacky name, it's the fact they'd have been calling it a name that would make you think it was fish food.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Silly names aren't always a bad thing. They can be eye catching.
> 
> How about "Goldfish" for a credit card, or "Egg" for a bank!



Both genius.  "Goldfish" has connotations of "forget", which plants a subconscious image of something you use and forget about.  Whereas "egg" has tonnes of cultural cues around being something that grows (c.f. "nest egg").

In neither case did they just decide to go with something silly; both were carefully chosen after significant research.  



> Here is a really silly one, they sell Computers yeah... and they are called Apple. I mean come on. Apple. Whats that got to do with computing.



Computers?  Those things associated with the word "bite" (or rather "byte") you mean?

And apples?  Those things associated with the new and fresh, with knowledge (c.f. Garden of Eden), with temptation?

I have no idea if any of these things were in the heads of Jobs and co. when they set up Apple.  But either way, it's a perfect name for a tech company.


----------



## Santino (Jun 2, 2011)

kabbes said:


> And apples?  Those things associated with the new and fresh, with knowledge (c.f. Garden of Eden), with temptation?
> 
> I have no idea if any of these things were in the heads of Jobs and co. when they set up Apple.  But either way, it's a perfect name for a tech company.



The first Apple logo was a picture of Newton sitting under an apple tree.


----------



## rover07 (Jun 2, 2011)

Or Banana.

You eat it in Byte size chunks.

It looks like a Penis, thrusting, exciting.

Perfect for a tech company. 

I should get a job in Marketing...


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2011)

Santino said:


> The first Apple logo was a picture of Newton sitting under an apple tree.


 
Ta.

There you go, Gromit.  Perfect name.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 2, 2011)

strung out said:


> it's not just that it's a bit of a whacky name, it's the fact they'd have been calling it a name that would make you think it was fish food.


 
or, if it came in fish flavour would bring your mind to all the unlucky fish that were dead and inside the can. and if it came in chicken flavour etc, would just be odd.

you could go all out on the japanese-ish cutesy weirdness of it... but as has been said, Sugar hates that kind of thing.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2011)

What Sugar looks for is a bog-standard simple hook that runs consistently throughout the branding.  CatSize is a bit shit alright but at least it meets this.  It's about weight, so it's "cat size".  And yes, "cats' eyes" is a known phrase, so that kind of works too.  It's not great but it sticks on-message.

Lucky Fish doesn't achieve any of this.  Everydog kind of did except that its message was flawed in the first place.

Bear in mind that they have 3 days to do what companies normally spend 3 months and £3 million doing.  It's not going to be very good.  But does it show the right kind of thinking?  That's what the brand consultants and marketers will be looking for.


----------



## Augie March (Jun 2, 2011)

Kelvin MacKenzie thought Everydog was a great idea.

That is all.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2011)

TBF I thought they were overly harsh on the "aimed at all dogs" concept.  Pedigree Chum is aimed at all dogs.  Pal is aimed at all dogs.  These are the best-sellers.  Yes, srs-minded individuals (like us!) feeds specialist food to dogs but most people don't, frankly.

Everydog had bigger problems than the fact it was aimed at all dogs.


----------



## weltweit (Jun 2, 2011)

kabbes said:


> TBF I thought they were overly harsh on the "aimed at all dogs" concept.  Pedigree Chum is aimed at all dogs.  Pal is aimed at all dogs.  These are the best-sellers.  Yes, srs-minded individuals (like us!) feeds specialist food to dogs but most people don't, frankly.
> 
> Everydog had bigger problems than the fact it was aimed at all dogs.


 
Indeed, Pedigree Chum and Pal are aimed at all dogs which made me wonder about all the people saying everydog was bad marketing, perhaps they didn't know what they were talking about. 

Anyhow the Advertising task is up to people's opinions and thus dodgy. In this case it was up to Sugar and he decided the Catfood was better. 

Hardly scientific. 

Perhaps he just had a mind to sack someone off that team on that day.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 2, 2011)

its a shame they got rid of that sleazy rat man. He was entertaining. The apprentice always pans out the same as the xfactor style programs. The first weeks with the "special" people, then the more sensible/dull in the later episodes.


----------



## smmudge (Jun 2, 2011)

Ya know I've not seen many series, but I've never actually seen them take any notice of what anyone says in a focus group.


----------



## Santino (Jun 2, 2011)

smmudge said:


> Ya know I've not seen many series, but I've never actually seen them take any notice of what anyone says in a focus group.


 
Last series the equivalent exercise was designing a new cleaning product, and the winners based their whole brand on some off-the-cuff comments from a focus group participant.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 2, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Both genius.  "Goldfish" has connotations of "forget", which plants a subconscious image of something you use and forget about.


 
1. It's factualy incorrect that goldfish have poor memories.
2. I wouldn't have made that connection. Even took me a while to get your meaning.
3. I know the real marketing reason. They were aiming for the Asian market primarily. Goldfish are considered to bring luck financially in Asia.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 2, 2011)

Anyhoo...

Amazed that the best thing about last night's show hasn't been discussed. 

The little black kitten. 

WANT! Sooo cute.


----------



## Augie March (Jun 2, 2011)

smmudge said:


> Ya know I've not seen many series, but I've never actually seen them take any notice of what anyone says in a focus group.



Judging from the You're Fired show, the dog focus group had two people saying that they do feed their dogs the same thing. So they were edited them out and only showed the bloke who said that you shouldn't do that, clearly to continue the narrative that Vincent doesn't listen to anyone but himself.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2011)

smmudge said:


> Ya know I've not seen many series, but I've never actually seen them take any notice of what anyone says in a focus group.


 
And nor should they.  As a focus group, it's an utter failure.  You don't run a focus group by gathering together a random group of individuals and asking them random stuff face-to-face.  I'm not remotely in marketing and even I know that.  

To use a focus group effectively, you first have to work out the question you are trying to answer, then you put together a representative group of individuals that will help you understand your question better, then you give them various tasks and questions towards that end (and it is very unlikely that you would ask them the question you want to answer directly).  It's like a little mini scientific experiment, in a way.

What they have in The Apprentice is no better than a few vox pops.  "Man on the street, do you like this thing?"  "No, no I don't."  "Very good, that must mean it's rubbish then."  It doesn't work like that!


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2011)

Gromit said:


> 1. It's factualy incorrect that goldfish have poor memories.


Who gives a crap?  It's factually incorrect that an apple fell on Newton's head or that there was an apple tree in the Garden of Eden.  It doesn't matter one smeg what is factually correct, only what associations people have with a word.



> 2. I wouldn't have made that connection. Even took me a while to get your meaning.


Who gives a crap?  It's nothing to do with your conscious understanding.  It's to do with iconography, symbolism and unconscious brand construction.  It's about connections that happen under the surface, not about bashing you on the head with it.



> 3. I know the real marketing reason. They were aiming for the Asian market primarily. Goldfish are considered to bring luck financially in Asia.


Which means that you have completely undermined your own initial point, since it wasn't a silly name at all.

But even so -- who gives a crap?  That may well have been a focussed choice for the Asian market.  But the great thing about symbolism is that it can work for you across cultures.  You can have the benefit of one association in one market and a different association in a different market.  And the symbolism is there even if you don't intend it; many have failed for that exact reason as well as succeeded.


----------



## Santino (Jun 2, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Ta.
> 
> There you go, Gromit.  Perfect name.


 
It should have been Liebniz, though.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2011)

Santino said:


> It should have been Liebniz, though.


 
Isn't that a biscuit?


----------



## smmudge (Jun 2, 2011)

Well at least in the focus groups this time we got lots of shots of kittehs and doggehs.

The advertising task always gives me flashbacks  to working with ad people, except on the apprentice they're a lot more organised and decisive, and less irritating and egotistical.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2011)

smmudge said:


> The advertising task always gives me flashbacks  to working with ad people, except on the apprentice they're a lot more organised and decisive, and less irritating and egotistical.


 
I think that's just by comparison with the Apprentice candidates themselves.


----------



## Santino (Jun 2, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Isn't that a biscuit?


 
The Choco-Leibniz, infinitely superior to the Fig Newton.


----------



## strung out (Jun 2, 2011)

Santino said:


> The Choco-Leibniz, infinitely superior to the Fig Newton.


 
where does the garibaldi figure in all of this?


----------



## Santino (Jun 2, 2011)

strung out said:


> where does the garibaldi figure in all of this?


 
After the Bourbons.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jun 2, 2011)

If Tom doesn't win then the whole thing is a farce. He's been the only Apprentice contestant I can remember who I genuinely like (not just in the context of the show), as well as being sensible and clearly intelligent. He sussed the main flaw with 'Everydog' straight away. He seems like a top bloke. As far as the rest goes, I'd probably pick Leon as my favourite after Tom.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2011)

Leon is made of polystyrene.  You wouldn't want to go into business with somebody made of polystyrene.


----------



## 1927 (Jun 3, 2011)

I can't believe that not a single person picked up on the fact that their tag line "See their light" was grammatically incorrect. It should have been see they're light, but that didnt make sense either!


----------



## strung out (Jun 3, 2011)

well it relied on the pun between 'see their light' and 'see they're light', so it had to be one or the other. unfortunately, because of the grammatical difference between the two, using one spelling would mean the other meaning didn't really work. the tagline and the advert was the worst thing about it, but the rest of the product was pretty decent tbf.


----------



## scooter (Jun 3, 2011)

No, it would be - See! They're light!

It's crap however you slice it.


----------



## trashpony (Jun 3, 2011)

1927 said:


> I can't believe that not a single person picked up on the fact that their tag line "See their light" was grammatically incorrect. It should have been see they're light, but that didnt make sense either!


 
That was making my teeth itch the entire show and I shouted at Glenn. He didn't listen though  Fucking twat. Tom is bloody marvellous and he is the only one who actually has a self-deprecating sense of humour.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2011)

It bothered me too.  In particular, it bothered me that the version they should have chosen was neither the "they're" option, since that relates to "CatSize".  The version they went with would have gone with "Cats' Eyes".


----------



## trashpony (Jun 3, 2011)

kabbes said:


> It bothered me too.  In particular, it bothered me that the version they should have chosen was neither the "they're" option, since that relates to "CatSize".  The version they went with would have gone with "Cats' Eyes".


 
Yes exactly. That Glenn is dim as a smashed cat's eye for sure


----------



## strung out (Jun 3, 2011)

but at least he made the right call for cat size over lucky fish


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 3, 2011)

Gromit said:


> Silly names aren't always a bad thing. They can be eye catching.
> 
> How about "Goldfish" for a credit card, or "Egg" for a bank!
> 
> Here is a really silly one, they sell Computers yeah... and they are called Apple. I mean come on. Apple. Whats that got to do with computing.



Yeah. Still, it could have been even more bizarre if a popular 60s beat combo had also used the name, and become embroiled in a decades long dispute with a computer giant over this fruit-based epithet.


----------



## Epona (Jun 4, 2011)

I've just watched this week's episode and my god it was a real "face buried in hands" throughout the whole thing for me.  Trying to sell a dog food actually marketed at "every dog" is completely stupid - the pet food market moved away from that around 30 years ago for good reason.  And the diet cat food had a stupid fucking name, it wouldn't attract me to buying it (I have 3 cats so get through quite a lot of cat food) - but then my cats are not obese in the first place because I feed them meat instead of fucking soya and cheaper cereal carb-rich substitutes.  That is the gap in the market right there - a complete cat food that has a high meat content, I have to import the bloody stuff (although at 24p/100g it's still cheaper than the shit I can get locally).


----------



## weltweit (Jun 4, 2011)

It is all very well. 

But they are given a couple of days to do what it normally takes agencies or manufacturers months or even years. Is it any wonder if the results are less than perfect. 

In fact the competition usually comes down to which is less less than perfect in the eyes of the agency and Sugar.


----------



## stereoisomer (Jun 4, 2011)

'See their light' makes the cats sound like Jesus. Was that what they were going for?


----------



## Part 2 (Jun 8, 2011)

Natasha is like a female David Brent.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 8, 2011)

Great seeing them all trying to work it out in their heads who won!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jun 8, 2011)

say it again!


----------



## N_igma (Jun 8, 2011)

BITCH FIGHT! Woooo wooooo wooooo!


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 8, 2011)

N_igma said:


> BITCH FIGHT! Woooo wooooo wooooo!


 
I wonder if Karen will tell them they're letting aspirational women everywhere down again.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 8, 2011)

Susie hurts my face. Fwiw.


----------



## binka (Jun 8, 2011)

picking on susie again like they did in the beauty treatment task. zoe the project the manager is a really awful person and she's made a right hash of this. she's definitely getting fired


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 8, 2011)

Triple earful.....Sugar's in hell here.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 8, 2011)

Zoe should've gone!


----------



## binka (Jun 8, 2011)

bit mad really but at least we'll get to see susie's revenge on zoe


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 8, 2011)

binka said:


> picking on susie again like they did in the beauty treatment task. zoe the project the manager is a really awful person and she's made a right hash of this. she's definitely getting fired


 
The one constant get out - "(s)he doesn't do much".


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 8, 2011)

Evil Edna did talk absolute nonsense, though.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 8, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Evil Edna did talk absolute nonsense, though.


 
Bet the gloves feature on BBC 2 now!


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 8, 2011)

Dirty Secretary?


----------



## Part 2 (Jun 8, 2011)

Is Sugar swearing more this series? A few craps and a bullshit tonight.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 8, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Evil Edna did talk absolute nonsense, though.


 I think she said she was in the Three Degrees.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jun 8, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> I think she said she was in the Three Degrees.


she did indeed


----------



## 8115 (Jun 8, 2011)

binka said:


> picking on susie again like they did in the beauty treatment task. zoe the project the manager is a really awful person and she's made a right hash of this. she's definitely getting fired


 
Suzie and Zoe just hate each other.  But I don't necessarily think there's a lot of wrong on one side.  I'd far rather work with Zoe, any day.  Suzie was constantly undermining Zoe all throughout the first day, but very mildly, the kind of thing that goes unnoticed but can really grind you down, kind of backwards bullying.


----------



## 8115 (Jun 8, 2011)

And Zoe was only really rude in the first place after Suzie had been wandering around the shopping centre saying "I can't sell these becasue nobody here has any money".  Ugh.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jun 8, 2011)

i think you should get out more


----------



## Gromit (Jun 8, 2011)

If Suzie says 'Unfair' one more time...


She needs to stop complaining that things aren't fair cause Sugar don't care whether it is or isn't, you need to win anyways.

Lets not forget that the first time she complained something was unfair... the beauty task.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jun 8, 2011)

so should you


----------



## kabbes (Jun 9, 2011)

I thought the whole task was "unfair", as it goes.  They've totally abandoned all pretence of it being about giving the kind of test in which you can realistically use your acquired skills and experience to apply to a new task.  How in the fuck were they supposed to eye up a massive mound of rubbish and have any idea as to what they should charge or offer?  No wonder the result was utter confusion.  I'm not surprised they all started reacting in unhelpful ways (such as falling back to childlike "how much is this?" questions or becoming irritable with these questions).  They're in a stressful test situation and they're being presented with something completely outside their experience and absolutely no time whatsoever to be able to assess it and work out what to do.  Yes, that is generally the point.  But this took it too far IMO and the result was just a bit silly -- people muddling through as best they could with no real strategy or plan.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 9, 2011)

And yet both teams managed to make £700.

Makes you wonder how much the pros who can size up waste and know the values make.


----------



## strung out (Jun 9, 2011)

interesting seeing the pro on You're Fired afterwards saying that they never do any clearance for free, and that if he'd been doing the task, he'd have lost the two contracts as well. shows that these tasks bear hardly any resemblance to the reality of these industries.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 9, 2011)

And yet both teams managed to make £700.

Makes you wonder how much the pros who can size up waste and know the values make.

It can be done if your waste is in fact valuable.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 9, 2011)

Gromit said:


> And yet both teams managed to make £700.
> 
> Makes you wonder how much the pros who can size up waste and know the values make.
> 
> It can be done if your waste is in fact valuable.



Well... £700 less the cost of a van for two days.  And less the cost of five people's labour for about 20 hours each.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Jun 9, 2011)

what happens to the money they make? does sugar just pocket it?


----------



## Doppelgänger (Jun 9, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Well... £700 less the cost of a van for two days.  And less the cost of five people's labour for about 20 hours each.


 
Exactly! Bloody Alan Sugar always bangs on about how easy it is to make money, but if you don't have the capital in the first place, then you are buggered.

Van hire is what £100/day? That leaves £500 between 5 people for 2 days work, then you also have to factor in fuel costs etc...

So if they are lucky they broke even, wow- really worth all that effort and such long days. In London £50 a day is nothing, especially if you have rent pay.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 9, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Well... £700 less the cost of a van for two days.  And less the cost of five people's labour for about 20 hours each.


 
Less income tax etc.


----------



## gabi (Jun 9, 2011)

how do they keep the details of who's been booted out secret? presumably this series has already finished filming or at least must almost be?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 9, 2011)

The point is they have to use intiative, daring, sheer bloody hard work and determination to make a profit, that's what the task demonstrates - realism is irrelevent you couldn't make a two day assesment task 100% realistic.


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 9, 2011)

I think it was a silly task really.


----------



## Doppelgänger (Jun 9, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The point is they have to use intiative, daring, sheer bloody hard work and determination to make a profit, that's what the task demonstrates - realism is irrelevent you couldn't make a two day assesment task 100% realistic.



This is fine and I think most people appreciate this, however it is the way Alan Sugar goes on about how simple everything is, when clearly it isn't.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 9, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The point is they have to use intiative, daring, sheer bloody hard work and determination to make a profit, that's what the task demonstrates - realism is irrelevent you couldn't make a two day assesment task 100% realistic.


 
But my point is that this task was a little long on the sheer bloody hard work and a little short on the initiative and daring.  Really, what initiative could they use?  Both teams just took a wild stab in the dark when it came to quoting for the contracts and other work -- they had to because there was no way for them to know what a reasonable price really was.


----------



## Part 2 (Jun 9, 2011)

reminder: it's a telly program, ie entertainment. It's not meant to be realistic.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 9, 2011)

Doppelgänger said:


> This is fine and I think most people appreciate this, however it is the way Alan Sugar goes on about how simple everything is, when clearly it isn't.



Well yeah, the blokes a dick but that is what he's on the program for.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 9, 2011)

kabbes said:


> But my point is that this task was a little long on the sheer bloody hard work and a little short on the initiative and daring.  Really, what initiative could they use?  Both teams just took a wild stab in the dark when it came to quoting for the contracts and other work -- they had to because there was no way for them to know what a reasonable price really was.



I disagree, they had a list of the prices for metal and that, they have their loudly accliamed business nouse. 

If they're as good as they claim it should be a doddle within the confines of the game.

Hey presto it showed some of them at their best and others at their worst, and as entertainment it was top notch.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 9, 2011)

The part with the plumbers was all the Apprentice skills in a nutshell.

Cold call for jobs, negotiate, negotiate some more, sell a service, buy for less and sell for more.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Jun 9, 2011)

Gromit said:


> The part with the plumbers was all the Apprentice skills in a nutshell.
> 
> Cold call for jobs, negotiate, negotiate some more, sell a service, buy for less and sell for more.


 
I fully agree. For once it seemed to be a task that had itself rooted firmly in the reality of what its like to set up and run your own business. I actually thought both teams did very well. All the BS about inventing a new brand of pet food in 48 hours is just a joke but what they had to do yesterday was a task that could face anybody. It felt 'real' and not like just some extention of a conventional Big Brother style programe.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 9, 2011)

What they faced was nothing like any kind of real business.  They had none of the tools needed to understand that business or plan for it whatsoever.  They just had a van.

Of course, that's The Apprentice -- a gameshow entertainment programme.  But its seams were showing yesterday.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 10, 2011)

kabbes said:


> What they faced was nothing like any kind of real business.  They had none of the tools needed to understand that business or plan for it whatsoever.  They just had a van.
> 
> Of course, that's The Apprentice -- a gameshow entertainment programme.  But its seams were showing yesterday.


 
They had more instruction than the guy who gave them instruction did when he started. He went out clueless as a youngster and learnt as he went along. He won't be alone in starting up business like that. Starting off where you make fuck all but slowly work out how to squeeze the juice.

 Not everyone goes to the bank and borrows capital with a well worked out business plan.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 10, 2011)

And how is any of that relevant to the supposed point of this programme, which is to choose who should get the investment out of people who DO have a proper business plans in fields they DO know about?


----------



## strung out (Jun 10, 2011)

Gromit said:


> They had more instruction than the guy who gave them instruction did when he started. He went out clueless as a youngster and learnt as he went along. He won't be alone in starting up business like that. Starting off where you make fuck all but slowly work out how to squeeze the juice.
> 
> Not everyone goes to the bank and borrows capital with a well worked out business plan.


 
the guy who gave them instruction was an ex banker who spent a year researching the market...


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Jun 10, 2011)

kabbes said:


> And how is any of that relevant to the supposed point of this programme, which is to choose who should get the investment out of people who DO have a proper business plans in fields they DO know about?


 
Because it helps build a picture (in conjunction with the other tasks) of who has the best combination of grit, guts, determination, nouse, and opportunism.


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2011)

Great episode.  The first (as Dara pointed out) where we couldn't all be sitting at home going 'I could do a shitload better job than these idiots'

Nick was outrageously hard on Zoe,saying she didn't have a clue when, actually, she was doing exactly as advised by the professional! Susie clearly IS a fucking idiot who hasn't got a clue.  And, despite not winning either contract, they onyl los by £6, pretty good going really.

Edna was obviously going to go all along, as she has done fuck all over six episodes, and the idea of her working with Sugar in a business is hilarious.


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2011)

kabbes said:


> What they faced was nothing like any kind of real business.  They had none of the tools needed to understand that business or plan for it whatsoever.  They just had a van.
> 
> Of course, that's The Apprentice -- a gameshow entertainment programme.  But its seams were showing yesterday.


 
careful now.  You are in severe danger of sounding like Edna, lovely theory, nowt in practise.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 10, 2011)

Chip Barm said:


> reminder: it's a telly program, ie entertainment. It's not meant to be realistic.


 
you're fired!


----------



## weltweit (Jun 10, 2011)

I missed the main program because it clashed with Isle Of Man TT racing on ITV4, but I watched the Bin Fired program on BBC2 instead and it was fine. I may miss the main program in future on purpose. 

I prefer Dara to SirAlun


----------



## Me76 (Jun 10, 2011)

belboid said:


> Edna was obviously going to go all along, as she has done fuck all over six episodes, and the idea of her working with Sugar in a business is hilarious.


 
I reckon that Sugar has been waiting to get rid of Edna since the glove incident. She just hasn't been in the board room. As soon as she was she was a shoe in to go. No matter what she or anyone else had done.


----------



## ShakespearO (Jun 15, 2011)

It's got to be Leon getting his cards tonight I reckon.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2011)

How to blow your load.


----------



## Augie March (Jun 15, 2011)

The lads mag is going to be a fucking disaster.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2011)

You think hip replacement is going to be better?


----------



## N_igma (Jun 15, 2011)

This is excrutiating! What a load of prats the lot of them!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 15, 2011)

What a name, Hip Replacement


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2011)

And that will be fucking good-bye for the hip replacement guy.

He was only there....because the ultrasound guy couldn't make it.

(sorry)


----------



## binka (Jun 15, 2011)

loved the way jim tried to worm out of giving the presentation but the others all said he would be the best


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2011)

So far Jim's been totally shown up here.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2011)

if hip replacement got the 3rd, covered got the first and hr got £500 more for the middle they should win


----------



## bigbry (Jun 15, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> You think* hip replacement *is going to be better?


 
'Young At Heart' was a much better title IMO


----------



## binka (Jun 15, 2011)

this should be good alan hates jim


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2011)

So far one of the best (ie worst) I've watched.

Let's see if Jim can save himself.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 15, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> So far one of the best (ie worst) I've watched.
> 
> Let's see if Jim can save himself.


He's going to pass the buck big time.


----------



## binka (Jun 15, 2011)

big fight between jim and zoe with zoe also blaming susie again


----------



## Augie March (Jun 15, 2011)

Who are these professionals buying the advertsing space? Because whoever offered £60,000 for a god awful lads mag like that, should be in a boardroom somewhere getting fired.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2011)

He swings for suzie, he swings for zoe


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2011)

Be true to yourself with your answers.

The Return of the Jedi!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 15, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> He swings for suzie, he swings for zoe


 He wouldn't pick on the bloke.


----------



## binka (Jun 15, 2011)

zoe nodding in the background and jim lays into susie


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2011)

Oooh...clever choice, gives him a chance.


----------



## binka (Jun 15, 2011)

jim to get fired susie to be made pm next task and for her to get her own back on zoe


----------



## binka (Jun 15, 2011)

nick bringing out the quotes to bury jim


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2011)

A Jedi...picking on a wee girl...dear oh dear.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 15, 2011)

How the f**k is jim still there?


----------



## binka (Jun 15, 2011)

most undeserved firing ever


----------



## N_igma (Jun 15, 2011)

They're all shit!


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> How the f**k is jim still there?


 Entertainment value.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 15, 2011)

binka said:


> this should be good alan hates jim



If that's true, the constant reaction shots where Sugar chortles with fatherly affection at Jim's double-dealing are very clever misdirection.


----------



## binka (Jun 15, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> If that's true, the constant reaction shots where Sugar chortles with fatherly affection at Jim's double-dealing are very clever misdirection.


 
i took those as chortles of disbelief rather than chortles of approval. however no doubt alan is probably just as unpleasant as jim so who knows


----------



## Spod (Jun 15, 2011)

"ive never known an engineer who could make it in business" says Sugar. Tell that to him








And him


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 15, 2011)

binka said:


> most undeserved firing ever


 
He was a bit rubbish, but Sugar's opinion of engineers is not surprising given how shit amstrad stuff was.


----------



## binka (Jun 15, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> He was a bit rubbish, but Sugar's opinion of engineers is not surprising given how shit amstrad stuff was.


 
nick said sugar himself is an engineer! i think the word must have been redefined


----------



## bi0boy (Jun 15, 2011)

Spod said:


> "ive never known an engineer who could make it in business" says Sugar. Tell that to him
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
or Soichiro Honda.


----------



## binka (Jun 15, 2011)

brunel was an engineer too iirc


----------



## N_igma (Jun 15, 2011)

binka said:


> brunel was an engineer too iirc



Lol why is he more famous for being something else then?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 15, 2011)

And which of these engineers would you trust to put down their silly suspension bridges and revolutionary washing machines, and knuckle down to selling Brummies beauty treatments in an out of town mall? None of them. Sugar may be a loathsome man in many ways and a failure in business, but he's bang on about engineers. No more of a hundredth as far as you could throw them should they be trusted, even with running your whelk stall for five minutes. 

Another thing about engineers, suicide bombings. The perpetrators are invariably engineering students.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 15, 2011)

Jim = nasty nick


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 15, 2011)

Three titles for the older demographic magazine that would have been better and, i think, fitted the focus group's feelings.

sixty_something_

vintAGE

Experience


edit -  i think part of the problem with the apprentice is that you don't actually need to be all-round clever to be good at making money. that's one of the reasons Tom is so noticeable - i think he's really very clever in a way we don't usually see. Also, he appears not to have alpha-male nob tendencies.  Sadly, he won't win, but i'd really love to have him as a colleague (or a boss). He inspires my confidence in a way the others on however many series have not.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 16, 2011)

I can't believe the Your Fired audience like Suzie and her 'soo unfair', lies and back peddling. 

Put herself forward to pitch my arse. She was doing her utmost to escape doing it. I've never done one etc. Shed better learn as the finalists HAVE to pitch, end of. 

I'm starting to fancy Zoe?! How did that happen?

I'm starting to see why people like Tom and dislike Jim. 
Although I think both will get torn apart in the interview stage. Will be a joy to see Jim trying to talk his way through that.


----------



## strung out (Jun 16, 2011)

i fancy susie


----------



## Gromit (Jun 16, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> And which of these engineers would you trust to put down their silly suspension bridges and revolutionary washing machines, and knuckle down to selling Brummies beauty treatments in an out of town mall?


 
Er Dyson for one. No one would buy the licensing rights to his vacuum so he built his business himself and done slightly well you must admit. A tiny bit of profit here and there.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jun 16, 2011)

I fucking hate Zoe and her stupid monotone voice, she's a right cunt. She's got the personality of a slug, and she looks like one too.


----------



## Paul Russell (Jun 16, 2011)

bigbry said:


> 'Young At Heart' was a much better title IMO



That jumped out at me as well. Not very exciting but better than everything else that was mentioned. Odd how that "coffin dodgers" was even mentioned in the boardroom when it was obviously suggested as a joke...


----------



## LJo (Jun 16, 2011)

I think Jim is a psychopath. I reckon he has a wife at home in the attic who he has managed to convince, over the last ten years, that she is going completely mad. I bet he does things like move everything in the house slightly to the right and then when the wife comes down for her daily exercise she says: 'Oh, everything seems to have moved slightly to the right' and Jim says: 'Nonsense! Nonsense my dear! You're not well!'


----------



## kabbes (Jun 16, 2011)

In terms of the technical definition of psychopath, you may well be right.  He certainly fulfils many of the criteria.  But then, it's estimated that a very high proportion of business leaders are psychopaths, techinically speaking.

I was disgusted by this episode.  I was disgusted by Natasha railroading her team into doing things they were clearly deeply uncomfortable with.  I was disgusted with the patronising attitudes of Susie and Glen towards those over 60 (60, ffs, not 90!).  I was disgusted with the endorsement of choosing what to write about on the basis of money rather than interest (and no doubt claiming down the road to be "passionate" about it anyway).  It was everything that is wrong with capitalism.  Fuck me, it was good telly.



Augie March said:


> Who are these professionals buying the advertsing space? Because whoever offered £60,000 for a god awful lads mag like that, should be in a boardroom somewhere getting fired.


 
And herein lies the heart of the problem with this week's task.  If the magazine were real, no way would this media buyer have spent £60,000 buying up all the advertising space in it.  But since it wasn't real, they had free rein to pretend to be Billy Big Boots, showing off to all interested viewers that they had that kind of power.  Their decision was nothing to do with real life and everything to do with personal PR.

Along similar lines, there was no way that company could buy anything from Jim because then they would have been admitting to the world that they don't get any better deals than the rate book.  That would have screwed them.  Jim should have metagamed, realised that this company is only playing this game for the sake of free advertising and flattered them by giving them a hefty discount.

(Also, technically, since they had bought up the whole magazine, the money spent by the other agencies should have been nullified.  You can't sell the same space twice.  But anyway.)

The other agencies seemed to be playing it more realistically.  In a way, I think it should have been a case of who "won" more agencies, which would have seen the fucking horrible Natasha's fucking horrible monstrosity kicked into touch.


----------



## 1927 (Jun 16, 2011)

binka said:


> brunel was an engineer too iirc


 
Exactly, but he was hardly a successful  business man!


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> (Also, technically, since they had bought up the whole magazine, the money spent by the other agencies should have been nullified.  You can't sell the same space twice.  But anyway.)
> 
> The other agencies seemed to be playing it more realistically.  In a way, I think it should have been a case of who "won" more agencies, which would have seen the fucking horrible Natasha's fucking horrible monstrosity kicked into touch.


 
Indeed.

Jim was unprofessional in his boardroom slating of Susie IMO.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 16, 2011)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> Jim was unprofessional in his boardroom slating of Susie IMO.


 
To be fair, the whole "boardroom" thing is a case study of unprofessionalism all round.  Its whole raison d'etre is one of making people act unprofessionally: find other people to blame, list their weak points, say whatever you can to make sure it's them, not you.  It's balls and it's why so many professional organisations have slated The Apprentice for its presentation of bullying and unpleasantness as being synonymous with being a successful businessperson.


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## _angel_ (Jun 16, 2011)

This was meant to be a free mag-- where did they get the idea that a lads mag (as pointed out anyway an outdated concept) was going to be a freebie. The over 60's thing maybe (but not with that name!) Freesheets/ mags are usually location based, listings of some description, arts, entertainment, alternative medicine, children's services etc.


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## Me76 (Jun 16, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> This was meant to be a free mag-- where did they get the idea that a lads mag (as pointed out anyway an outdated concept) was going to be a freebie. The over 60's thing maybe (but not with that name!) Freesheets/ mags are usually location based, listings of some description, arts, entertainment, alternative medicine, children's services etc.


 
Are you not London based?

In London there is almost a different free mag every day around the train stations.  There's a women's one, movies and sports at least.  Obviously they are location based as in London, but not as narrow as what you seem to be thinking of. 

I liked the idea of the over 60s one but wondered about the model of giving them out free to commuters not getting to the audience well enough, assuming a lot less over 60s commuting into the city every day.


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## Gromit (Jun 16, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> This was meant to be a free mag-- where did they get the idea that a lads mag (as pointed out anyway an outdated concept) was going to be a freebie. The over 60's thing maybe (but not with that name!) Freesheets/ mags are usually location based, listings of some description, arts, entertainment, alternative medicine, children's services etc.


 
Whats to stop a lads mag from being freebie?

Model costs?
I'm betting that glamour model was cheaper that just one of the niche over 60s models.

The fact other lads mags charge and they don't. That sounds like a selling point not a drawback.

I can't see why one couldn't exploit a gap in the market if done properly.


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## Dan U (Jun 16, 2011)

i was surprised no one picked up on that point re: getting the Mag in to over 60s hands. I would think the over 60s commuting demographic at major rail terminii is quite small.

although, maybe you'd have to do more handing out in the day time


----------



## LJo (Jun 16, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> This was meant to be a free mag-- where did they get the idea that a lads mag (as pointed out anyway an outdated concept) was going to be a freebie. The over 60's thing maybe (but not with that name!) Freesheets/ mags are usually location based, listings of some description, arts, entertainment, alternative medicine, children's services etc.



Shortlist - the main mag produced at the offices where they were based this episode - is a lads' mag, though a bit more upmarket than the usual titfest (as you say, that's pretty outmoded now), and it's hugely successful. They've just launched Stylist, which is basically an attempt at doing a free version of Grazia, seems to be doing pretty well too - they're both in London. It's taking the Metro model and applying it to magazines.


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## 1927 (Jun 16, 2011)

Dan U said:


> i was surprised no one picked up on that point re: getting the Mag in to over 60s hands. I would think the over 60s commuting demographic at major rail terminii is quite small.
> 
> although, maybe you'd have to do more handing out in the day time


 
Who said it had to be handed out on the streets, I am sure that if they ahd actually produced tha mag they could have found alternative ways of distribution.


----------



## Dan U (Jun 16, 2011)

Finding a new distribution model might also incur costs above the tried and tested flinging them in to hands outside stations 

Just seemed a gap no one picked up on


----------



## kabbes (Jun 16, 2011)

There are tonnes of over-60s going daily through major termini, both during commuter hours and outside those hours.  

Judging from all the fuckers getting in my way, there are at least demi-tonnes of over-90s too.


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## _angel_ (Jun 16, 2011)

1927 said:


> Who said it had to be handed out on the streets, I am sure that if they ahd actually produced tha mag they could have found alternative ways of distribution.


 
Getting them in local businesses and shops is usually the way isn't it? I don't know how many free mags go through people's doors, some might do... the thing is they had very little time to be doing this (another reason why it was a silly task). A celeb mag would have been better, but how were they meant to do that in the time allowed?


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## Santino (Jun 16, 2011)

What was even more unclear this week was the actual mechanics of the task. They must have been handed a short list of target audiences (presumably men, women, old people, parents and one of two others) in order that the focus groups could be made available in advance, and they must have had an editorial team who actually put the articles together. The only real space to distinguish themselves was the choice of title, cover and general editorial thrust of the magazine. Things like distribution were simply out of the scope of the task.


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## kabbes (Jun 16, 2011)

I'm not sure there even were articles, just ipsom lorum placeholder text.

Maybe I've just watched too many of these now, but the format seems to be creaking.


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## kabbes (Jun 16, 2011)

And please, for my sake, don't call it a focus group.  It's not even close to being a focus group.  It's a bunch of random people speaking their branes.


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## _angel_ (Jun 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I'm not sure there even were articles, just ipsom lorum placeholder text.
> 
> Maybe I've just watched too many of these now, but the format seems to be creaking.


 
Just a tad. Like someone said, just how mapped out for them was this "task" already.


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## Gromit (Jun 16, 2011)

Santino said:


> What was even more unclear this week was the actual mechanics of the task. They must have been handed a short list of target audiences (presumably men, women, old people, parents and one of two others) in order that the focus groups could be made available in advance, and they must have had an editorial team who actually put the articles together. The only real space to distinguish themselves was the choice of title, cover and general editorial thrust of the magazine. Things like distribution were simply out of the scope of the task.


 
I never thought of that but now you say it they obviously didn't pick over 60s completely out of the blue.


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## DexterTCN (Jun 16, 2011)

strung out said:


> i fancy susie


Totally.  She hits all the right buttons.

Asian.


oh...and female.


----------



## Paul Russell (Jun 16, 2011)

Maybe I have also watched too many of these now (although I've only seen three of this series) but the same thing has always annoyed me. In the really complex tasks, like last night, you feel that you only know a tiny fraction of what went on so you can't really judge who you think has done well or not, which is half the fun.

Produce a dummy of a mag - in, erm (supposedly), a day? That would take weeks in real life.

Whereas where they just go down the market with some fish to sell at least you feel like you have a fair idea of what went on.

Tom seems like a very likeable character - bit unusual for The Apprentice. Yes, Jim is probably a serial killer.


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## N_igma (Jun 16, 2011)

Tom is a loser, he's weak and I hope he gets fired very soon. No one left is deserving of a win! The only person I thought deserved to win got sacked this week!


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## bi0boy (Jun 16, 2011)

I want a Susan/Zoe final. Normally the final two are a bit jovial with each other alone in the house, but it would be great if these two refused to speak to each other bar the occasional acerbic comment.


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## PlaidDragon (Jun 17, 2011)

N_igma said:


> Tom is a loser, he's weak and I hope he gets fired very soon. No one left is deserving of a win! The only person I thought deserved to win got sacked this week!


 
By what standards? He's been full of ideas, and knows where each task has gone wrong. Calling him a 'loser' is ludicrous.


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## 100% masahiko (Jun 17, 2011)

Susan is very average (in looks) and resembles a chiwawa.

Melody to win.


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## kabbes (Jun 17, 2011)

Who gives a flying fuck what they look like?  Seriously, people, comments like that make me despair of society.


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## QueenOfGoths (Jun 17, 2011)

Jim scares me! Though I like Nick slapping him down 

I thought the concept for the over-60's magazine i.e. 60 being the new 30 was good, if they'd gone for it more, used different photos, less condescending articles. It had a great concept but ended up looking like Women's Weekly mags you see in the doctor's surgery


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## sim667 (Jun 17, 2011)

I liked jim to start off with, but actually he's a prick.

tom or the woman that keeps winning to win.


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## 100% masahiko (Jun 17, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Jim scares me! Though I like Nick slapping him down


 
Jim is a brilliant task-doer.
He excels when everything is planned out.
I do like his 'selling' style but hate it when he plays that game with his own team members (comes across as a snake).

Their true character really comes out when  PM


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## QueenOfGoths (Jun 17, 2011)

Natasha and Helen both seem to know what they are doing and are not afraid of taking decisions. Leon seems quite steady and Tom must have something to still be there though the editing makes him look a bit like a Nigel Bruce as bumbling Dr. Watson type!

I quite like Zoe, she has made mistakes but she doesn't seem to shy away from any tasks, I've not really seen enough of Melody to know and Susan kind of annoys me by being moany.

I reckon a Natasha/Leon final!


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## Me76 (Jun 17, 2011)

Natasha makes me want to punch her in the face, especially in this episode.  

Helen is quite a dark horse I think, she has managed to be on the winning team each week but still doesn't stand out, saving it for the final run in I reckon.  I really couldn't tell you anything she has done, which is probably a good thing as is normally the cock ups that stick in your mind.


----------



## 1927 (Jun 17, 2011)

The US version seems to give them more time to do things. i remember one task they had to renovate a hotel and get bookings for it!


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 17, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Natasha and Helen both seem to know what they are doing and are not afraid of taking decisions. Leon seems quite steady and Tom must have something to still be there though the editing makes him look a bit like a Nigel Bruce as bumbling Dr. Watson type!
> 
> I quite like Zoe, she has made mistakes but she doesn't seem to shy away from any tasks, I've not really seen enough of Melody to know and Susan kind of annoys me by being moany.
> 
> I reckon a Natasha/Leon final!


 
Melody restricts herself from internal conflicts.
In the earlier episodes, there were a few occasions when she purposely avoided bitching on the weaker members. 
I prefer this style of business. She's not bad at project management either - can see her in the finals.

Out of the guys, Leon.
Nice guy but his major weakness is his presentation skills.
He really needs to prep more cos it's damn cringey.

The girls - Susan 'it's so unfair' gets on my nerves and so does her arch-enemy Zoe (though of late, she is speaking more sense - if you can get pass her voice).

The worse is Natasha.
She really lacks imagination, typically for a rec manager


----------



## souljacker (Jun 17, 2011)

Santino said:


> What was even more unclear this week was the actual mechanics of the task. They must have been handed a short list of target audiences (presumably men, women, old people, parents and one of two others) in order that the focus groups could be made available in advance, and they must have had an editorial team who actually put the articles together. The only real space to distinguish themselves was the choice of title, cover and general editorial thrust of the magazine. Things like distribution were simply out of the scope of the task.


 
I'd really like to see the document they get given at the start for some of these tasks. If they were literally starting completely from scratch with a one paragraph brief, I'd be more impressed. But it's obvious they get given a big folder with lots of ideas and info, which means it is just a game at the end of the day, like the sort of thing you'd do in A level business studies.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 17, 2011)

Oh yeah i dont mind zoe either. Totally would too..... (as long as she didnt speak)


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 17, 2011)

.wrong thread


----------



## weltweit (Jun 17, 2011)

I had just settled down to watch the Apprentice this week and an old friend rang on the phone so I put the tv on mute and sort of watched while we chatted, and chatted and chatted, he has free calls it transpires, by the end of the call, which I terminated on an excuse, it was almost to the end of the Your Fired program. 

Each week I seem to miss it for one reason or another.


----------



## strung out (Jun 17, 2011)

cool story


----------



## Santino (Jun 17, 2011)

Yeah, I didn't watch it because mrsfran was watching something else so recorded it and watched it afterwards.


----------



## strung out (Jun 17, 2011)

we should make an ebook of these anecdotes.


----------



## strung out (Jun 17, 2011)

or a free magazine


----------



## N_igma (Jun 17, 2011)

PlaidDragon said:


> By what standards? He's been full of ideas, and knows where each task has gone wrong. Calling him a 'loser' is ludicrous.


 
Cos he's weak...and a geek. A weak geek, he's not the sort of person Sugar is looking for. He's doomed to failure.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 17, 2011)

I totally didn't watch it because the kabbess was at dog training but we tape it so we watched it when she got back.  Yeah!


----------



## Edie (Jun 20, 2011)

I'm loving it this year. It's like they're editing it to make it easier for cassetteboy 

My favourite is Natasha, especialy when she said 





> I feel like Melody has just said, here’s a big plate a blame, fancy a bite?


 in her west country accent. Proper had to put down my wine to lol


----------



## belboid (Jun 20, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I was disgusted with the endorsement of choosing what to write about on the basis of money rather than interest


 
thats a bit harsh, as they were basically told to do so.  It was all about money for the one off, not creating something that could actually survive in a market place, so they had little choice.

marvellously awful episiode tho.  Natasha is truly evil, Susan is actually fucking useless, so what she said 'we should drop the price' - even a deaf dumb and blind ferret knew they had to drop the price, and that Jim had fucked up. Then again, almost all the women seem useless when they're not project managing. Only Zoe, with her lovely accent, made any positive impression at all.


----------



## ebay sex moomin (Jun 20, 2011)

The auction's ended now- the two mags did indeed go for £58.

"INCLUDING HOW TO MAKE MONEY FROM RUBBISH"- I for one, appreciate the irony :-D


----------



## ebay sex moomin (Jun 20, 2011)

"How do you blow your load?" why, on naff magazine mock-ups of course!


----------



## belboid (Jun 21, 2011)

team loser should have called their mag _OAPinionated_


----------



## Edie (Jun 22, 2011)

belboid said:


> team loser should have called their mag _OAPinionated_


 see belboid, you're a natural! You should apply for next year


----------



## Augie March (Jun 22, 2011)

I love that the idea of being able to competently speak a foreign language is so incredible to Leon.


----------



## 1927 (Jun 22, 2011)

who the fuck would want 1500 of those bloody spider things!!!!?


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 22, 2011)

The vulchers(er...vultures...wtf)  hover above melanie and tom.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 22, 2011)

Melanie to go!


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 22, 2011)

i adore tom, but he shouldn't have backed down when melody was getting grabby over the orders.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 22, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> i adore tom, but he shouldn't have backed down when melody was getting grabby over the orders.


 
As I said previously he's weak!


----------



## smmudge (Jun 22, 2011)

Melody has really weird eyebrows.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 22, 2011)

smmudge said:


> Melody has really weird eyebrows.


 
she wears a very odd style of makeup. i dislike.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 22, 2011)

Fuck think Leon could go here.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 22, 2011)

Tom just saved his bacon there methinks.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 22, 2011)

One more slip up from Tom and he's fucked!


----------



## big eejit (Jun 22, 2011)

Leon - vacuous tit. Should become a Tory MP
Melody - evil and stupid.
Tom - too nice to win?

Helen to win judging by today. Tho Sugar usually ends up picking the wrong one.


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jun 22, 2011)

The more I watch this programme the more I hate LordSirAlun.  What a massive cock piece.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 22, 2011)

Fucking useless.  Seriously fucking useless.

I don't even know where to start.  How about with the minor things?  Like: when you are cold calling, _have a fucking script_.  Particularly if you are outside your comfort zone, for example if you are in a foreign language.  Don't call them and then say, "errr".

Melody should have gone because she was much, much worse than useless.  She actively fucked up her teams chances of winning by systematically destroying every chance that came their way.  And then she smugged her way out of it!

But each and every one of them was hopeless.  Susie -- total moron.  Natasha -- bulldog with no common sense whatsoever.  Melody -- the worst kind of railroader; one who is consistently _wrong_.  Tom -- complete lack of ability to lead a team or make decisions.  Eurgh!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 22, 2011)

I watched this for the first time tonight. Um 'the French don't drive because some bloke in the Paris metro told me so'? Eh? That woman should have been fired on the spot for being an idiot. 

It's a very odd programme. Good is bad and bad is good, it seems. It's a very topsy-turvy set up. I wouldn't want to work with any of them, tbh, but then it's the format that's making them act like that.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 22, 2011)

In a donkey derby the winner is always a donkey.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 22, 2011)

Nanker Phelge said:


> In a donkey derby the winner is always a donkey.


 
Yes. This sums it up nicely!


----------



## kabbes (Jun 22, 2011)

Oh, there's another one -- market research is not fucking well ASKING FOUR FUCKING PEOPLE.  Particularly not asking them from the perspective of a judgement you have already made!

Seriously, seriously, SERIOUSLY useless.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 22, 2011)

Nanker Phelge said:


> In a donkey derby the winner is always a donkey.


 
Oh, well said.


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 22, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Fucking useless.  Seriously fucking useless.
> 
> I don't even know where to start.  How about with the minor things?  Like: when you are cold calling, _have a fucking script_.  Particularly if you are outside your comfort zone, for example if you are in a foreign language.  Don't call them and then say, "errr".
> 
> ...



If you're in partnership with Sugar, what skills do you actually need? 

Melody won't railroad him but Tom's lack of ability to lead or make a firm decision will be irrelevant - the winner needs to come up with ideas, and he seems to have those and be analytical (well more than the others are shown to be).. Surely Sugar will provide the complementary skills?

Helen is good but surely Tom is the only one who fits the bill for what is required for a winner of this series, which is why he wasn't fired?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 22, 2011)

People with something real to offer a business don't spend weeks chasing their tail for the sake of appearing on TV and the reward of a job which they know nothing about until they are told they've got it.

It's a bit like shopping for clothes with a blind fold on in the hope that you buy something that fits you _and_ looks good on.


----------



## TruXta (Jun 22, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Oh, there's another one -- market research is not fucking well ASKING FOUR FUCKING PEOPLE.  Particularly not asking them from the perspective of a judgement you have already made!
> 
> Seriously, seriously, SERIOUSLY useless.


 
You're clearly not an anthropologist.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 22, 2011)

Yep. In the same way that people with real talent don't enter the X-factor. I can confidently predict that nobody who wins the Apprentice will ever amount to anything more than that bloke off the Halifax ads.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 22, 2011)

TruXta said:


> You're clearly not an anthropologist.


 
I'd do a  at that, but it's true. I nearly did an MSc in Anthropology. Yes, an M*Sc*!

Not to diss your subject area, truxta (you're a psychologist, yes?) but Richard Feynman said a very pertinent thing about the Social Sciences. He wondered how they could be sciences when they hadn't come up with any laws. Out of politeness, he did leave open the possibility that there were laws but they just hadn't yet been discovered, but the implication is clear.


----------



## Paul Russell (Jun 23, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Oh, there's another one -- market research is not fucking well ASKING FOUR FUCKING PEOPLE.  Particularly not asking them from the perspective of a judgement you have already made!



Heh. Didn't Melody ask one French woman and the translation bleeped up her reply as "good", which Melody translated to Leon as "mmmm.... OK..."?


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 23, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Fucking useless.  Seriously fucking useless.
> 
> I don't even know where to start.  How about with the minor things?  Like: when you are cold calling, _have a fucking script_.  Particularly if you are outside your comfort zone, for example if you are in a foreign language.  Don't call them and then say, "errr".
> 
> ...


 
Do you think they were actively prevented from having contact with a french dictionary etc? I would have wanted to write out what I was saying as well.
The backpack babyseat thing I want! Silly girl for not realising how good that was.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 23, 2011)

Can you speak French?
Small peas.

Excellent


----------



## kabbes (Jun 23, 2011)

To be fair, he really just mangled the pronounciation of "petit peu".  In Jim's accent, "peu" and "pois" aren't all that different.

Can a parent explain to me, incidentally, why car seats need to be transportable in a backpack?  I don't really get it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2011)

I've not been following this, but I watched last night.  I didn't like the lass that Alan Sugar liked.  She was a scheming, selfish liar.  And unpleasant with it.  Is that what he likes?  How could he trust her?


----------



## kabbes (Jun 23, 2011)

Tbf, yes -- that is what he likes.  He's all about the scheming, selfish liar.  Particularly if they also repeatedly make poor decisions that cause big problems for everybody else.


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## kabbes (Jun 23, 2011)

Don't forget that Sugar himself is basically a bully-boy that managed to hit the cheap computer market at the right time, selling shoddily-made rubbish by getting it into shops.  For about 5 years he hit a rich seam.  Since some time vaguely around 1990, however, it's pretty much been stagnant or downhill for his business empire.  He sets himself up as some kind of business guru but the truth is that, like with most business ventures, he got lucky once and has coasted on it since.

It's also a very specific style.  If he behaved in the manner he thinks is so critical in my industry, he wouldn't last 5 minutes.

This lot seem to want his investment and profile in a joint venture, which I pity them for but kind of understand.  Up to now, however, they've been playing for a job.  A job with Sugar?  Idiots.


----------



## 1927 (Jun 23, 2011)

kabbes said:


> To be fair, he really just mangled the pronounciation of "petit peu".  In Jim's accent, "peu" and "pois" aren't all that different.
> 
> Can a parent explain to me, incidentally, why car seats need to be transportable in a backpack?  I don't really get it.


 
Well for a start if you didnt have a car but had lift off people it would be a lot easier than lugging a rigid car seat around all the time. Lift to the park, fold up, lift home form park with someone else, unfold and bob's ya uncle! A great idea imho, if they had FAA approval for it too that would be an amazing step forward as someone who has taken a little un on planes and had to lug a full size car seat around airports!!

Also good for taxi rides and taking in buses.


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## _angel_ (Jun 23, 2011)

kabbes said:


> To be fair, he really just mangled the pronounciation of "petit peu".  In Jim's accent, "peu" and "pois" aren't all that different.
> 
> Can a parent explain to me, incidentally, why car seats need to be transportable in a backpack?  I don't really get it.


 
Oh good grief! If you don't have a car but need to get in a taxi/ get a lift off someone it means you can actually do it, and don't have to cart a car seat around with you (practically impossible once they get past the first size that slot into prams)! It's about time someone invented something like this, so you can actually _get in a car_ once in a while!


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## kabbes (Jun 23, 2011)

Yes, I see it now.

This is rather the point, though.  I am not the target market so I start by asking the target market a question.  And that question isn't "would you buy this?", which is a really terrible question for all kinds of reasons.  It's, "can you see a use for this?" or "how would you use this?"


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## Me76 (Jun 23, 2011)

A random selection of my thoughts:

Melody made a big decision at the beginning of the task that she was basically going to do what ever she wanted no matter what anyone else said. 

She took against the car seat immediately so while doing the market research took advantage of Leon not being able to speak the language and translated as she wished.  Plus she carried out the "market research" in a metro station, so obviously the answers were going to be biased towards people who take public transport.  

When Tom asked her to research the company they were going to pitch at, she ignored him, deciding instead to go on her own priorities.

Then Leon was a total twonk by not noticing that when Melody was making the appointments she was speaking English!  He more or less admitted on ‘You’re Fired’ that he was a bit in awe of her.  

Then, because of no market research (and maybe a lack of general nouce) Tom totally buggered up the big pitch.  Natasha then banged the nail in further by ‘upping’ the offer to 50!  

I will miss Susie when she goes – such lovely naivety, tinged with an innate sense of what is the right thing to do but with no actual knowledge to back it up.  

I really like the bendy thing, although I wouldn’t pay 18 euros for it.  I can think of many situations when it would come in useful.


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## _angel_ (Jun 23, 2011)

Yes she basically asked a lot (or a few) of young commuters on the metro about the car seat... did she even ask if they had children? She just wasn't in the right place, asking the right people.


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## LJo (Jun 23, 2011)

What I don't understand is why nobody picked up on the fact that it doesn't matter a toss what a few commuters in Paris thought of the car seat, as La Redoute is a national retailer. Well, I do sort of understand it. They are all idiots.


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## big eejit (Jun 23, 2011)

LJo said:


> What I don't understand is why nobody picked up on the fact that it doesn't matter a toss what a few commuters in Paris thought of the car seat, as La Redoute is a national retailer. Well, I do sort of understand it. They are all idiots.


 
I was saying that. The target market wasn't just Metro-politan Parisians. 

And Leon fucking worked for La Redoute and the message never got through to Tom that they weren't some corner shop. Even then, the fact that they had about 10 people on the buying panel might have been a clue. You want to take 10? What one for each of you?!!


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## Paul Russell (Jun 23, 2011)

Me76 said:


> Plus she carried out the "market research" in a metro station, so obviously the answers were going to be biased towards people who take public transport.



Good point.

I'm still amazed though that anyone bought the teapot light, as it looked like a total crock of shite to me...


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## Paul Russell (Jun 23, 2011)

big eejit said:


> And Leon fucking worked for La Redoute and the message never got through to Tom that they weren't some corner shop. Even then, the fact that they had about 10 people on the buying panel might have been a clue. You want to take 10? What one for each of you?!!



I like Tom (like everyone) but he displayed no initiative and allowed himself to be completely bossed around by evil Melody on this task. He was lucky that Leon decided to do fuck all and just pretend he was Nigel Havers in a sitcom for the day.


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## souljacker (Jun 23, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> Oh good grief! If you don't have a car but need to get in a taxi/ get a lift off someone it means you can actually do it, and don't have to cart a car seat around with you (practically impossible once they get past the first size that slot into prams)! It's about time someone invented something like this, so you can actually _get in a car_ once in a while!


 
Useful for going on holiday too. Hire car companies charge a wedge to rent a car seat.


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## joustmaster (Jun 23, 2011)

i still haven't stopped laughing at the name hip replacement.


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## weltweit (Jun 23, 2011)

In this task Melody had a great advantage with her french but she was clearly working for herself and not the team. Sugar did not seem to mind this which is odd, I would expect him to be looking for a team player / leader. 


The process is not like real business, at least not any that I have been involved in. Never do team members turn on each other and attack each other and then be expected to continue working in a team the next time out. Sure people are expected to play to their strengths but that is not the same thing. 

The Apprentice boardroom experience is not one I have faced in many years of business and I am used to being in the boardroom every month to deliver and discuss my monthly report.


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## 8115 (Jun 23, 2011)

Just catching up on this.  Melody should have gone and I'm only half way through the program.  Everyone they asked was saying, "yes, the car seat's a great idea, a lot of people use the metro, ie it's useful to be able to pack up a car seat and get in some one else's car at the end of the journey".  She translated this completely wrongly, which must have been deliberate.

The car seat was a great idea because any child with divorced parents, or who spends significant time with anyone other than their main carer, generally travels around with a car seat and a bag.  Combining the two is a  good idea, although I'm a bit sceptical that you could use the car seat without emptying the bag, which could be a pain.

If Melody didn't go, this confirms my suspicion that Alan Sugar is now just firing people depends on how much he likes them and not depending on their performance in the task.


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 23, 2011)

Did none of these people go to school? Surely everyone can speak _some_ French? 

I don't know why people are annoyed with Melody for being a selfish, scheming little backstabber. That is, after all, the point of capitalism.


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## 8115 (Jun 23, 2011)

I don't really agree.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5798645.ece


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## kabbes (Jun 23, 2011)

Selfish, scheming little backstabbers rarely make it far in business unless they are really *good* at being selfish, scheming little backstabbers.  For everybody else, a far more reliable option is to ensure that people have a good experience of working with you and want to do so again.


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## girasol (Jun 23, 2011)

Lord Sugar really likes Melody, he called her a 'Tiger'.  That says a lot about him, doesn't it?

I think Susan Ma is my favourite this year, she won't win, but time and time again she says the right thing and no one listens to her, because she's not shouting, but give her a couple more years and she'll become more assertive - she has already, but without being agressive.  I like her style (despite the rather unbelievable questions she asked about the French, she gave her questions some context later on)

Helen will win, but I don't find her as endearing as Susan.


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## kabbes (Jun 23, 2011)

Susan is alright as long as she is dealing with something simple that she can approach in her naive and surface-deep hand-waving way.  The moment she is presented with something of complexity or depth or that, heaven forbid, requires some _knowledge_, she retreats to the asking of endless childlike questions of whatever poor schlub happens to be in the vacinity.


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## weltweit (Jun 23, 2011)

Sugar likes Melody, it is hard to know why though.. 

She fluffed the market research which actually said the booster seat rucksack was good .... that lost them the task 

Then she disobeyed a direct instruction to research the main pitch, which also contributed to them losing the task by not realising how important they were.. 

Then she made appointments, but not in great stores and refused to share them with her team.. It was surely for her team that she was making appointments? 

She is undoubtedly hungry to win the competition, but whether she will have any teammates who are prepared to work with her is another matter.


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 23, 2011)

8115 said:


> I don't really agree.
> 
> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article5798645.ece


 
Interesting. Who owns the Times again? Is it a workers co-op or the most evil, power mad bastard since Mel Gibson? The article itself is a load of crap IMO, we live in an age where public services are increasingly being turned over to private companies with only 'voluntary self-regulation' to hold everything together.


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## belboid (Jun 23, 2011)

1927 said:


> Also good for taxi rides and taking in buses.


 
or even on the Metro. 

Melody is truly awful, fuck the scheming, thats part of the game, but explicitly lying....tssk, tssk.  And then when she went back to the house she told everyone how sugar said he found her awards 'commendable'!  Way to miss the point.

And susan, ohhh Susan.  What a braindead useless imbecile. Complete waste of space.

And then there was the nice touch of sugar asking Tom if he thought he was the 'new Dyson.'   Would that be the _engineer_ James Dyson, worth twice what sugar is.


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## 8115 (Jun 23, 2011)

SpookyFrank said:


> Interesting. Who owns the Times again? Is it a workers co-op or the most evil, power mad bastard since Mel Gibson? The article itself is a load of crap IMO, we live in an age where public services are increasingly being turned over to private companies with only 'voluntary self-regulation' to hold everything together.


 
Well, I like the article.  Just because it's in the times doesn't take away from that.


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## kabbes (Jun 24, 2011)

I think Melody lies to herself as much as everybody else when she says these things.  Cognitive disonance on a grand scale.


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## souljacker (Jun 24, 2011)

belboid said:


> And then there was the nice touch of sugar asking Tom if he thought he was the 'new Dyson.'   Would that be the _engineer_ James Dyson, worth twice what sugar is.


 
The whole 'engineer' thing has really fucked me off. I've got far more respect for Bob Metcalf or Vint Cerf than I have for Sugar.


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## joustmaster (Jun 24, 2011)

souljacker said:


> The whole 'engineer' thing has really fucked me off. I've got far more respect for Bob Metcalf or Vint Cerf than I have for Sugar.


 
its not about skill, being nice, or even doing something well - its about squeezing money out of anything.


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## 100% masahiko (Jun 24, 2011)

Melody rocks!
If I was running a business, I'd definitely have her on my side.
There's a ruthlessness about her. And that competitive spirit is what the free-market is all about.
I doubt she will win it though - not with Helen being so like-able.

Tom has no control over his team. 
Weak as fuck.
Susan should be instantly killed from the process also.


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## kabbes (Jun 24, 2011)

If you were running a business, eh?


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## belboid (Jun 24, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Melody rocks!
> If I was running a business, I'd definitely have her on my side.
> There's a ruthlessness about her. And that competitive spirit is what the free-market is all about.


 
There's being competitive and then there's blatantly lying. She's just an arrogant bullshitter, without even the nouse to see when she's having th episs taken out of her


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## kabbes (Jun 24, 2011)

What gets me is the notion of "if I were running a business".  What business?  In what industry?  With which partners?  In what structure?


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## danny la rouge (Jun 24, 2011)

belboid said:


> There's being competitive and then there's blatantly lying. She's just an arrogant bullshitter, without even the nouse to see when she's having *th episs* taken out of her


I hadn't realised you were from th' north of England.


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## twistedAM (Jun 24, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Melody rocks!
> If I was running a business, I'd definitely have her on my side.
> There's a ruthlessness about her. And that competitive spirit is what the free-market is all about.
> I doubt she will win it though - not with Helen being so like-able.



Ha ha, She'd lie to you. She'd scheme behind your back. She'd leave. She'd take the clients with her; and possibly your money too. 
Actually, sooner or later they'd all do that but she'd have you hung up like a kipper in a week.

Helen is bright more than mere like-able - in fact the only one on there that hasn't caused me to do a  - but I think the producers will carve her out of the process somehow.


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## weltweit (Jun 24, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Melody rocks!
> If I was running a business, I'd definitely have her on my side.
> There's a ruthlessness about her. And that competitive spirit is what the free-market is all about.
> I doubt she will win it though - not with Helen being so like-able.



You might think that melody would be working for you, but in truth melody would be working for melody. 

And if she genuinely "runs an international business", what on earth is she doing in a TV show vying for a £250k investment from Sugar?


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## kabbes (Jun 24, 2011)

Helen seems solid.  Not inspirational (in either sense of the word) but capable.  In the Apprentice line-up, that makes her shine like a beacon in a night-time sea of despair.


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## Santino (Jun 24, 2011)

kabbes said:


> shine like a beacon in a night-time sea of despair.


 
Like Iggle Piggle.


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## kabbes (Jun 24, 2011)

_Such_ a dad.


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## girasol (Jun 24, 2011)

weltweit said:


> And if she genuinely "runs an international business", what on earth is she doing in a TV show vying for a £250k investment from Sugar?



self-promotion, of course!!!  She is a good salesperson, but I'd never have her running the market research dpt 

wanting to win at all costs doesn't equate to being competitive!


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## 100% masahiko (Jun 24, 2011)

kabbes said:


> What gets me is the notion of "if I were running a business".  What business?  In what industry?  With which partners?  In what structure?


 
I wasn't talking about a chain of fried chicken shops (though that would be my business of choice).
Nor was I talking about an online poker strip-casino/ real time hologram wanking clubs (my second choice).




			
				belboid said:
			
		

> There's being competitive and then there's blatantly lying. She's just an arrogant bullshitter, without even the nouse to see when she's having th episs taken out of her






			
				twistedAM said:
			
		

> Ha ha, She'd lie to you. She'd scheme behind your back. She'd leave. She'd take the clients with her; and possibly your money too.
> Actually, sooner or later they'd all do that but she'd have you hung up like a kipper in a week.
> 
> Helen is bright more than mere like-able - in fact the only one on there that hasn't caused me to do a  - but I think the producers will carve her out of the process somehow.



everyone of those contestants are wankers.
past and present. some are more like-able but essentially you need to a you need to be a wanker to be on The Apprentice.


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## kabbes (Jun 24, 2011)

So don't employ any of them then.


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## belboid (Jun 24, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> everyone of those contestants are wankers.


of course, that's why we watch!



> past and present. some are more like-able but essentially you need to a you need to be a wanker to be on The Apprentice.


but you should also have more basic competencies than just being able to bullshit and sell. being able to _spot_ bullshit, at least, is rather useful.

That said, Cacophony (as I prefer to call her) is still a strong potential finalist.


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## Hocus Eye. (Jun 24, 2011)

I have watched only a few episodes of the apprentice. The formula television style gets so repetitive. However I saw the one where the two teams had to create magazines. When they came up with their respective titles and  target markets of pensioners versus 'lads mag' I began to wonder if the participants were just actors, and the television company had invented the crazy titles to create a stereotype of young inexperienced would-be-entrepreneurs stumbling over their own feet. You couldn't parody that performance. 

Here we have Capitalism inadvertently (unless my earlier theory is true) caricaturing itself through its own mouthpiece - the media. As for Lord Sugar, why would any modern youngster want to work for or with him? Yes I know - money.


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## weltweit (Jun 24, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> ...
> As for Lord Sugar, why would any modern youngster want to work for or with him? Yes I know - money.


 
More to the point, why would someone who already runs a multinational company, or who already has orders for 36,000 of their own product, want to give up all that and work with/for Sugar?


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## big eejit (Jun 24, 2011)

weltweit said:


> You might think that melody would be working for you, but in truth melody would be working for melody.
> 
> And if she genuinely "runs an international business", what on earth is she doing in a TV show vying for a £250k investment from Sugar?


 
Not an 'international' business, a 'global' business.


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## weltweit (Jun 24, 2011)

big eejit said:


> Not an 'international' business, a 'global' business.


 
My mistake


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## pianissimo (Jun 24, 2011)

I thought when Melody asked the French, they all said 'That's a good idea!' on the rucksack/childseat   But she turned around the phoned Tom rejecting the product.  She's a bullshitter, and only wants/does things her way.
Tom has instinct which something Melody doesn't have.  She's a salesman that's all she is and Sugar is looking for more than that.
I hope Melody gone before Tom.
Beginning to like Susan.  She's young but progressing and has more sense than others in the last couple tasks (e.g. rubbish collecting, and magazine sales).


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## spanglechick (Jun 24, 2011)

i really would like tom as a mate - but he's wrong for these kinds of challenges. but then, inasmuch as the these are ridiculously unrepresentative of business skills, he will continue to be a very successful man - he's smart and his brain is really switched on (he didn't go wussy in the boardroom, like most of the 'nice' candidates do - he articulated truthful and reasonable arguments).

someone said on my twitterfeed that he'd be shit at running a business - but as i see it, not all business does boil down to dickheaded captial-chasing, alpha male rawness.


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## Epona (Jun 25, 2011)

I don't know why I watch every episode of this without fail (and yet I have found it compulsive viewing from the start of the first series) - I despise everything about it really - the money grabbing values, the individualistic backstabbing etc.  I have come to realise that probably my motivation for watching it is to see self-professed young business entrepreneurs trip up in the mire of their own self-aggrandising rhetoric when their performance fails to live up to the spin. This series has been great viewing - proper train crash hubris type stuff - but while I'm watching it I can never quite prevent the thought lingering in the back of my mind that it (and the world at large) might be improved by a direct meteor strike on the luxury pad they are staying in!


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## dirtyfruit (Jun 25, 2011)

Tom P and I shared mutual friends at Bath Uni and he is EXACTLY like i remember him: engaging, posh, bright, and a bit manic at times but a thoroughly nice chap with little or no 'edge' to him. Don't know what possessed him to sign up to this show.


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## pianissimo (Jun 25, 2011)

dirtyfruit said:


> Tom P and I shared mutual friends at Bath Uni and he is EXACTLY like i remember him: engaging, posh, bright, and a bit manic at times but a thoroughly nice chap with little or no 'edge' to him. Don't know what possessed him to sign up to this show.



He probably has invented a product that needs backings to launch.


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## belboid (Jun 25, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> Beginning to like Susan.  She's young but progressing and has more sense than others in the last couple tasks (e.g. rubbish collecting, and magazine sales).


 
No she hasn't.  She is a brain dead moron


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## spanglechick (Jun 25, 2011)

dirtyfruit said:


> Tom P and I shared mutual friends at Bath Uni and he is EXACTLY like i remember him: engaging, posh, bright, and a bit manic at times but a thoroughly nice chap with little or no 'edge' to him. Don't know what possessed him to sign up to this show.


 
winkybag kind of knows him too, i believe


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## fakeplasticgirl (Jun 26, 2011)

Susie is basically adorable though.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jun 26, 2011)

dirtyfruit said:


> Tom P and I shared mutual friends at Bath Uni and he is EXACTLY like i remember him: engaging, posh, bright, and a bit manic at times but a thoroughly nice chap with little or no 'edge' to him. Don't know what possessed him to sign up to this show.


 
The same reason everyone signs up, I would guess: the desire for fame. Nice guys can want this too. It comes at the expense of self-respect, but hey, that's the price you pay.


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## sumimasen (Jun 26, 2011)

Melody wants to help the children of the world... but she's totally profits driven. Hmm.


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## sim667 (Jun 27, 2011)

fakeplasticgirl said:


> Susie is basically adorable though.


 
Or exceptionally irritating, depending how you look at her.



> Do the french love their children?


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## fakeplasticgirl (Jun 27, 2011)

It was 'fond' of their children, and she obviously didn't mean it literally. She must have just meant 'do the French spend a lot of money on their children' or similiar. Or am I giving her too much credit?


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## belboid (Jun 27, 2011)

Yes.  Far too much. She is  an idiot. She seems to be incapable of thinking before speaking. What was that brilliant idea she had in week 1 (?) that she couldn't explain? Burbled on for ten minutes before finally being shut up (and then whinging aobut being shut up)


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## gabi (Jun 27, 2011)

The only smart one on there seems to the girl with the nice teeth (Helen?).. The rest are proper jokes! Great telly tho.


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## gosub (Jun 27, 2011)

hat the one who did the massive sale? good for previous contests, b this ones a diffent prize, Tom for final as he he has a few ideas and can be pushed around.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 27, 2011)

My thoughts are a Helen/Melody Final.

Tom hasn't the strength to be heard, even when he's making the most sense, so I don't think he's gonna get a look in at the final unless he really starts to assert himself.

I think Jim's cards are marked. He's a shark and SirAlanLordSugar clearly sees through him. Susie is just a dipshit. Not sure about Zoe. She's a moody cow, but could pull through and make the final if she does something useful in the next couple of tasks.


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## gabi (Jun 27, 2011)

Zoe's monotone drone would do me in if i had to deal with on a daily basis. Helen's a shoo-in here.


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## belboid (Jun 27, 2011)

Nanker Phelge said:


> My thoughts are a Helen/Melody Final.
> 
> Tom hasn't the strength to be heard, even when he's making the most sense, so I don't think he's gonna get a look in at the final unless he really starts to assert himself.
> 
> I think Jim's cards are marked. He's a shark and SirAlanLordSugar clearly sees through him. Susie is just a dipshit. Not sure about Zoe. She's a moody cow, but could pull through and make the final if she does something useful in the next couple of tasks.


 
Natashe not even worth a mention?  No, course she isnt. She's out at the first opportunity, due to being utterly vile.

The only problem with Helen is that we haven't really seen that much of her till this week. She got pushed around on the pet food task, and on the porn mag one. Such weakness is not a virrtue.

Actually, she team led the rubbish task didn't she, and did quite well on that one too. 

A strong candidate, not really convinced she is the best yet, tho


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 27, 2011)

belboid said:


> Natashe not even worth a mention?  No, course she isnt. She's out at the first opportunity, due to being utterly vile.
> 
> The only problem with Helen is that we haven't really seen that much of her till this week. She got pushed around on the pet food task, and on the porn mag one. Such weakness is not a virrtue.
> 
> ...



Oh yeah. Forgot Natasha. Which sums her up nicely.


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## gosub (Jun 27, 2011)

being pushed around IS A virtue, when its somebody else decideing who they want to go 50:50 on a business with (well in the eyes of the likes of Sugar), but its going to come down to who he thinks has an idea (coz Sir Alun the  Property Landlord's own persoal well seems dry)


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## fakeplasticgirl (Jun 27, 2011)

My money's on a helen/susan final.


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## Part 2 (Jun 27, 2011)

Nanker Phelge said:


> My thoughts are a Helen/Melody Final.



Me too, Good vs Evil always makes good telly and I think Helen will win. 

One of the things the editors do seem to with the show is limit the bad clips of the winner, can't think of anything negative of Helen that's been shown.


----------



## pianissimo (Jun 28, 2011)

belboid said:


> No she hasn't.  She is a brain dead moron


 
LOl!  Yes at times.  She doesn't know how to phrase things (regarding the french).
But she has 'some' senses more than others who don't have their own business but bullshit their ways through.


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## belboid (Jun 28, 2011)

example?

Other than the two times she made the, quite obvious, point re lowering prices.


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## fakeplasticgirl (Jun 28, 2011)

she seems good at product selection?

heh. susie's a cutie!


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## DJ Squelch (Jun 29, 2011)

emergency biscuits


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## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

Popscuits.   Rolls off the tongue 

And out your bum, obviously.


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## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

Bixmix is good though.


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## spanglechick (Jun 29, 2011)

I hate to be the sort of person that says this, but Melody is so much prettier without her makeup.


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## mrs quoad (Jun 29, 2011)

Bestworst pitch EVER.


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## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

Worst presentation ever by Tom and Melody.   Love it.


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## paulhackett (Jun 29, 2011)

Share it.. like a kitkat? Or a twix? Or a packet of biscuits


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## mrs quoad (Jun 29, 2011)

I'm stunned at how wrapped up in managementspeak Natasha is. Even when speaking to 7yr olds. About purchasing concepts, ffs


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## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

I'm not sharing any fucking kitkats or twixes paul, so fuck off.

I'm also not sharing a packet of biscuits if it's cheddars.   You can have the ginger nuts.


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## al (Jun 29, 2011)

Please stop the amateur dramatics!!!


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## killer b (Jun 29, 2011)

Sweet jesus. The roleplay is incredible.


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 29, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> I'm not sharing any fucking kitkats or twixes paul, so fuck off.
> 
> I'm also not sharing a packet of biscuits if it's cheddars.   You can have the ginger nuts.



Why do you think there's two fingers?

It's not one enormous biscuit in a packet, it's a packet of biscuits.. you greedy c***


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 29, 2011)

killer b said:


> Sweet jesus. The roleplay is incredible.


 
It's classic.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 29, 2011)

I like the supermarket buyers. Particularly Waitrose.


----------



## al (Jun 29, 2011)

"one enormous biscuit" - now that's something I'd buy!


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> Why do you think there's two fingers?
> 
> It's not one enormous biscuit in a packet, it's a packet of biscuits.. you greedy c***


I think you know why it's got two fingers. So you can eat one after the other...yes, even the king-size.

Look do you want the ginger nuts or not because I've finished the cheddars and I'm still peckish.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 29, 2011)

Call me forgiving, call me generous... but this is the first apprentice episode where I can find no merit at all in either team's efforts.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 29, 2011)

Bloodbath!


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

800,000 tins of chocolate biscuits for kids...fucking typical.   Asda bastards.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 29, 2011)

Gotta be Zoe.


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (Jun 29, 2011)

Ridiculous that Sugar let that stand after saying it was Jim's bullshitting that won it.


----------



## al (Jun 29, 2011)

well, I didn't expect that - thought the treat/anytime thing had them dead in the water...

guess Zoe's going then...


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 29, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> I think you know why it's got two fingers. So you can eat one after the other...yes, even the king-size.
> 
> Look do you want the ginger nuts or not because I've finished the cheddars and I'm still peckish.



I'll always have a ginger nut. Thank you.

You;re wrong about the fingers though.. they're meant to be shared, not scoffed by an individual. You know.. like Family Circle.. it's not called Greedy Bollocks Circle for a reason


----------



## DJ Squelch (Jun 29, 2011)

I really want someone to say "buttery biscuit base"


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 29, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> I'll always have a ginger nut. Thank you.
> 
> You;re wrong about the fingers though.. they're meant to be shared, not scoffed by an individual. You know.. like Family Circle.. it's not called Greedy Bollocks Circle for a reason


 
That reason is marketing.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 29, 2011)

Fuck excrutiating stuff at times. I'm beginning to like Tom now. Melody or Susie to go, they're both basically shit at life.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> I'll always have a ginger nut. Thank you.
> 
> You;re wrong about the fingers though.. they're meant to be shared, not scoffed by an individual. You know.. like Family Circle.. it's not called Greedy Bollocks Circle for a reason


 
I'll swap you some jam ones from the family circle for some ginger nuts then?

On Topic...he could sack them all here, except maybe Suzie.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 29, 2011)

DJ Squelch said:


> I really want someone to say "buttery biscuit base"


----------



## N_igma (Jun 29, 2011)

Wasn't she the cunt who said "it's a real biscuit biscuit I'm very happy with it"?


----------



## smmudge (Jun 29, 2011)

DJ Squelch said:


> emergency biscuits


 
I'm pretty sure there's a brand of chocolate based on the idea of it being "emergency chocolate". Makes more sense with chocolate than biscuit though.

I really question this notion that good packaging/branding/marketing can't pull through a shit product.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 29, 2011)

Tom has more lives than a cat fs.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 29, 2011)

smmudge said:


> I really question this notion that good packaging/branding/marketing can't pull through a shit product.


 
1. Pringles
2. Jordan


----------



## al (Jun 29, 2011)

Not even a glance from melody and what seemed to be a kiss on the forehead from Tom - peculiar...


----------



## starfish (Jun 29, 2011)

She had a really irritaing voice. Glad shes gone.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> 1. Pringles
> 2. Jordan


 Pringles have msg in them I think.  Seems to act like a short term addiction.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 29, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> Pringles have msg in them I think.  Seems to act like a short term addiction.


 
Is that why I can't stop once I pop?


----------



## DJ Squelch (Jun 29, 2011)

smmudge said:


> I'm pretty sure there's a brand of chocolate based on the idea of it being "emergency chocolate". Makes more sense with chocolate than biscuit though.
> .



I had visions of someone breaking open a packet of hobnobs after an earthquake or nuclear attack. 
I used to go out with a diabetic girl who had to carry a chocolate bar around incase she felt faint so I guess that was her emergency biscuit.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 29, 2011)

Omfg. Worst post-firing makeover EVER.

Exploded air hostess chic.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

Bloody hell she looks like fucking Maggie Gyllenhall now!

hot hot hot

(edit to add...I thing we disagree)


----------



## DJ Squelch (Jun 29, 2011)

Why has she come dressed as an air hostess?


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 29, 2011)

What is a Maggie Gyllenhall, and what went wrong with it?


----------



## smmudge (Jun 29, 2011)

DJ Squelch said:


> I had visions of someone breaking open a packet of hobnobs after an earthquake or nuclear attack.



Yeah that is stupid. Everyone knows in those situations the priority will be gettin the kettle on and making some tea.


----------



## N_igma (Jun 29, 2011)

I think she looks fine!


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 29, 2011)

no, it's awful! the shirt on it's own would be a bold, maggie gyllenhall statement. the navy jacket is a bad choice: navy and white looks like a uniform... and then the placement of that odd pompom of hair immediately above the huge bow - it's just bizzare and unattractive.


----------



## al (Jun 29, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> What is a Maggie Gyllenhall, and what went wrong with it?



nothing went wrong at all....


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

That is what I'm talking about.  Got the one with the legs?


----------



## N_igma (Jun 29, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> no, it's awful! the shirt on it's own would be a bold, maggie gyllenhall statement. the navy jacket is a bad choice: navy and white looks like a uniform... and then the placement of that odd pompom of hair immediately above the huge bow - it's just bizzare and unattractive.


 
Fuck here comes the fashion police!


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> no, it's awful! the shirt on it's own would be a bold, maggie gyllenhall statement. the navy jacket is a bad choice: navy and white looks like a uniform... and then the placement of that odd pompom of hair immediately above the huge bow - it's just bizzare and unattractive.


A uniform is a sexually attractive thing.   She has a ribbon.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2011)

The most shocking thing tonight is...

Bob Mortimer is an old man now. Makes me feel old. 

P.s. Zoe is still hot. Even dressed as half Princess Leisure and half Air Hostess. 

Jim won that task though with his promise everything and anything you can pitch.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

This may be a man/woman thing.     Here's one for you, spangle.


----------



## big eejit (Jun 29, 2011)

Gromit said:


> The most shocking thing tonight is...
> 
> Bob Mortimer is an old man now. Makes me feel old.
> 
> ...


 
Zoe looks like Cybil Fawlty.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 29, 2011)

Gromit said:


> P.s. Zoe is still hot. Even dressed as half Princess Leisure and half Air Hostess.


No.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 29, 2011)

big eejit said:


> Zoe looks like Cybil Fawlty.


 
+1

Then again, I'm not getting the picture of the cross-eyed lass with the plastic dribble / wayward catheter either


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

Are you implying Cybil Fawlty was not sexy?

Because she was seriously sexy.


----------



## weltweit (Jun 29, 2011)

DexterTCN said:


> Are you implying Cybil Fawlty was not sexy?
> 
> Because she was seriously sexy.


 
Nah, Polly, Polly was sexy.. 

Cybil Fawlty was a daft old bat


----------



## weltweit (Jun 29, 2011)

Anyhow, on the apprentice .. 

I see that Helen has won yet again ... 

And, imho Melody should have gone. At some point in the near future Sir Alan has to realise that someone who cannot co-exist with other team mates is a mere liability.


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 29, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Anyhow, on the apprentice ..
> 
> I see that Helen has won yet again ...
> 
> And, imho Melody should have gone. At some point in the near future Sir Alan has to realise that someone who cannot co-exist with other team mates is a mere liability.



She's being saved up for firing at the interview round


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 29, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Nah, Polly, Polly was sexy..
> 
> Cybil Fawlty was a daft old bat


 Polly was a barbie doll.


----------



## PlaidDragon (Jun 30, 2011)

How the fuck is Zoe hot? She looks and sounds like a slug. So glad she's gone.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 30, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> She's being saved up for firing at the interview round


 
Gawd i hope so. She has that blinkered I'm right and the whole world is wrong view of reality. There aren't many people I'd like to slap but when she makes her 'I'm superior' face (and the condensing voice that goes with it) i want to slap it.

I waiting for her to tell Lord Sugar "absolutely" when he fires her and assume he meant "you're the best Melody, too good for me".

I want to see her project manage again to tell the truth. With enough rope to truly hang herself now that there aren't so many to take the bullet for her. If only she'd had the power to say nope i'm PM and so popcorn biscuits it is. Imagine her turning up at Asda with them lol. She has the product vision of a moron. Lets not forget how car seats are a bad product  for a national retailer as no one drives in france.


----------



## foolonthehill (Jun 30, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> She's being saved up for firing at the interview round


 
Ooooh hope so. Hate her... Jim can do one as well


----------



## DJ Squelch (Jun 30, 2011)

I know it was her idea in the magazine round but I thought it was bit off giving her a magazine called Coffin Dodger after they'd earlier said she had survived two bouts of cancer.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 30, 2011)

Jim totally had the right idea -- he suddenly woke up to the fact that in a faked-up role-play situation, you can bend reality however you like.

This isn't a real product and nobody is committed to anything because it's all just role-play.  So fuck it, why NOT claim that you have a £30m advertising budget?  Hell, say that you're going to get all world leaders to endorse it too.

Asda almost certainly went for it because they know damned well that anything with a big fuck-off telly campaign will get sales.  Nice one, Jim, you FINALLY learned how to metagame.  This isn't real, so look for the gaps with reality and exploit them.


----------



## big eejit (Jun 30, 2011)

The reason that people like Melody stay in longer than they should is because the main feature of The Apprentice is to provide entertaining TV. And Melody is good TV.

The secondary reason of the show is to find someone who can work with Sugar. My theory was that Sugar would keep the devil in the show if it made good tele, safe in the knowledge that he can just make Helen the winner come judgement day.

But I've been reconsidering Helen recently - I should get out more. I reckon that the key skill that most of these tasks test (apart from luck) is organisation skills. If you can get things organised in a ridiculously short period of time, you've got a good shot at winning the task. Helen is the PA to some Chief Exec and, in my experience, top PAs are the most frighteningly well organised people in the world. Hence her success in the show.

But Sugar probably isn't actually looking for the sort of person that the show allows to shine. He's looking for an entrepreneur, an inventor, a bullshitter. So it's possible that, depsite doing best in the show, Sugar may go for someone more suited to those business skills, e.g. mad Tom or Jim. They can always hire a good PA.

Anyway that's my thoughts on why Helen may not actually be a shoo-in.


----------



## big eejit (Jun 30, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Jim totally had the right idea -- he suddenly woke up to the fact that in a faked-up role-play situation, you can bend reality however you like.
> 
> This isn't a real product and nobody is committed to anything because it's all just role-play.  So fuck it, why NOT claim that you have a £30m advertising budget?  Hell, say that you're going to get all world leaders to endorse it too.
> 
> Asda almost certainly went for it because they know damned well that anything with a big fuck-off telly campaign will get sales.  Nice one, Jim, you FINALLY learned how to metagame.  This isn't real, so look for the gaps with reality and exploit them.


 
I said that. They were all taking the piss out Jim about his reply. But the supermarket person asked him how they would launch the product. What's he meant to say? "Hand out a few flyers down the pub"? His only slight error was maybe laying it on a bit thick with the celebrity film star endorsements etc.


----------



## strung out (Jun 30, 2011)

i honestly think tom will win. he's got a history in product design and inventing, he's run his own business and brought a product to market, he's intelligent and analytical, he's easy enough to work with for siralan that there won't be any problems personality-wise. my guess is that the final task will be pitching their actual business ideas either to sugar or a team of pros he's assembled.


----------



## boing! (Jun 30, 2011)

Melody is just a different class of bad. Not just a bit shit, but actively destroying the chances of her team winning. I think any hopes of a supermarket placing any orders were lost after that utterly bizare role playing thing. Surely you're meant to engage and immediately try and strike up a relationship with these people, rather than alienate them by spending the first 5 minutes having a conversation that they're not part of! Insane.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 30, 2011)

strung out said:


> i honestly think tom will win. he's got a history in product design and inventing, he's run his own business and brought a product to market, he's intelligent and analytical, he's easy enough to work with for siralan that there won't be any problems personality-wise. my guess is that the final task will be pitching their actual business ideas either to sugar or a team of pros he's assembled.



What has he invented? 
I think his presentation skills suck and he has a natural inability to man-manage. Too indecisive, too easily swayed.
Well, I suppose it's too early to judge him  as we not heard his business proposal.

I still think Melody is great. I like that aggressive/ competitive approach, she'll be real good in selling kitchen table-tops for Moben.

Susan 'that's so unfair' Ma reminds me of all the crazy neo-conservative kids I went to Chinese school with. Yuck.

My opinion of these characters change every week.
The Sith Lord Jim I like again.
Natasha is still an idiot.
Sad to see Zoe go.
Helen is hot stuff.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 30, 2011)

They let slip yesterday that Sugar has already seen all the proposed business plans.

Given that, does anybody seriously think that these games have ANYTHING to do with who will win this competition?  Sugar has already decided which business plan he likes the most.  That person will win.  Everything else is just entertainment.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 30, 2011)

kabbes said:


> They let slip yesterday that Sugar has already seen all the proposed business plans.
> 
> Given that, does anybody seriously think that these games have ANYTHING to do with who will win this competition?  Sugar has already decided which business plan he likes the most.  That person will win.  Everything else is just entertainment.



Is that so?
Then there is a reason why some of the more poor competitors have survived.
I really don't like this new format now.
It's Dragon's Den with extended humiliation from Al and co.

Given the contestants background, I'm assuming Tom is the only one not providing a service as a business model>?


----------



## kabbes (Jun 30, 2011)

I think there are two or three he potentially likes the look of and they're safe until the final.

The rest are probably kept on the basis of their entertainment value and the narrative of the show.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 30, 2011)

Tom's profile on Linkedin isn't too bad.
So he was in consumer cosmetics and after that, product development for organic cleaning products sold to the public sector.

History before self-employment was all over the place though.


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2011)

kabbes said:


> They let slip yesterday that Sugar has already seen all the proposed business plans.
> 
> Given that, does anybody seriously think that these games have ANYTHING to do with who will win this competition?  Sugar has already decided which business plan he likes the most.  That person will win.  Everything else is just entertainment.


they didn't really 'let slip', it came out like normal TV procedure to me. They have to start dropping hints about the (probably) rejigged interview round (tho there will still have to be some interview, we gotta see just how the dalai lama taught Cacophony), and i imagine they will get something of a grilling about their plans then.  which makes sense.

& it's not just the business plan that matters, from my massive experience of business investment (ie, watching some dragons dens) then the person is pretty much as important as the idea.  It wouldnt have mattered if Edna had the best idea in the world, she was pure evil so there was no way he'd work with her. Same with Natasha. And Tom, he probably does have the best idea, but if _he_ isnt going to be able to push it through himself, then it wont be worth Sugars while. 250k (including 'value') isn't going to create enough profit for him to be arsed about spending much time on, so the person will be as important as the plan.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jun 30, 2011)

do you remember how the previous series were fixed? that they didn't hire the finalists based on their performances during the show? 
how in reality,  Sugar employed them on a probationary period for a couple months before the filming of 'you're hired' was made?

I reckon in this series they're looking at ways of backing a good business model.
And it's as fixed as always.

I mean Tom is fuckin' shit in frontline sales/ presentation and even more poor in man-management.  but if his idea has market potential, Sugar's consultancy will look at ways of sustaining it.
Perhaps by managing Tom and stick him in the backroom for  product development or something.
Sugar would probably get his sons in to run the show.
Tom will be the face. A paper partner of sorts.


----------



## Schmetterling (Jun 30, 2011)

The role play reminded me of the woman kicking off her shoes to demonstrate how music 'just makes people want to dance' in a pitch in, I think, Series 2.  I died a little that day.  And some more last night.


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2011)

The role play was classic youth sector stuff - ie Cacophony's day job.  I can totally see her doing that kind of thing, the glossy bullshit merchant out up to 'inspire' people at the beginning of a session.  Never any substance to it.

Tom, apparently, is very experienced in intellectual property rights, I can see Sugar finding that, together with strong product development,  being a fit with him.  They'd have to spend a fair whack of that 250 on an actual manager tho, which would be a bit of a waste.


----------



## weltweit (Jun 30, 2011)

I think what this show and previous ones have solidified in my mind, is that Sugar is basically a wheeler dealer. He is happy to pop into a market and then dive out of it as he sees fit. 

What he is not, is an industrialist and I think that is a shame. People like the founder of Matsushita are the businesspeople I really respect. They went on to grow significant industrial technical businesses that could sustain many tens of thousands of jobs internationally and make products that we all buy. No running when the heat was on, they stuck to their guns!


----------



## nino_savatte (Jun 30, 2011)

Jim ticks all the boxes for sociopathy.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 30, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Jim ticks all the boxes for sociopathy.


 
Psychopathy, surely?


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 30, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Psychopathy, surely?


 
That's just what sociopathy became known as in recent years. tbf.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 30, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> That's just what sociopathy became known as in recent years. tbf.


 
Shouldn't you be putting your tuppenworth into the ugly friend thread?  Were you not aware that it has devolved into an argument about psychotherapy?


----------



## Fatuous Sunbeam (Jun 30, 2011)

Schmetterling said:


> The role play reminded me of the woman kicking off her shoes to demonstrate how music 'just makes people want to dance' in a pitch in, I think, Series 2.  I died a little that day.  And some more last night.



Tell me about it. Is it only me or have some of this year's pitches and presentations been the most cringeworthy? (Apart from the dancer, of course). I now turn the sound down whenever one of them's going to pitch and take occasional peeps from behind my hands, to see if the reactions make me want to turn the sound on again. 

They haven't so far.


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 30, 2011)

Fatuous Sunbeam said:


> Tell me about it. Is it only me or have some of this year's pitches and presentations been the most cringeworthy? (Apart from the dancer, of course). I now turn the sound down whenever one of them's going to pitch and take occasional peeps from behind my hands, to see if the reactions make me want to turn the sound on again.
> 
> They haven't so far.



My favourite cringeworthy pitch was from the attractive Asian woman from Glasgow (can't remember which series) which began, "This product combines out-of-the-box thinking with a solution for your company."


----------



## 8115 (Jun 30, 2011)

Just watching this weeks.  So far someone has said "biscuit" at least once every 10 seconds.  It's getting a bit surreal.  I'm also getting a bit bored of this.  I don't think it's as good as previous series.


----------



## strung out (Jun 30, 2011)

the best bit was zoe being shown the coverage of her saying how delicious the biscuit was before saying how disgusting it was in the boardroom.


----------



## 8115 (Jun 30, 2011)

Nothing can beat "Emergency biscuit".


----------



## paulhackett (Jun 30, 2011)




----------



## 8115 (Jun 30, 2011)

A biscuit inside a biscuit 

"I couldn't give a shiny shit about Melody".  Zoe is literally my hero.


----------



## stavros (Jun 30, 2011)

8115 said:


> Nothing can beat "Emergency biscuit".


 
Still a long way behind "Hip Replacement".


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 30, 2011)

stavros said:


> Still a long way behind "Hip Replacement".


 
You saw the 'You're Fired' present Zoe got?

The world's first production copy of 'Coffin Dodger'


----------



## al (Jun 30, 2011)

8115 said:


> A biscuit inside a biscuit
> 
> "I couldn't give a shiny shit about Melody".  Zoe is literally my hero.



Also 

"She gets where dirt can't"

She's got a nice turn of phrase...


----------



## pianissimo (Jul 1, 2011)

I don't like zoe at all. I find her character to be dishonest. She's a big bully too. She tried what she did on Susie on melody but melody fought back. Well done. I'm so glad zoe got fired. 

And what with her clothes and hair. She looks ridiculous. Someone said zoe looks like a slug, i agree. Very unattractive.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 1, 2011)

I liked Zoe, before her dark side started to emerge  I thought she sounded really interesting, and then she turned into this weird poisonous explosive whingebag.


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 1, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> I liked Zoe, before her dark side started to emerge  I thought she sounded really interesting, and then she turned into this weird poisonous explosive whingebag.



I think dealing with Melody would poison most people.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 1, 2011)

Funny how the male candidates don't get all this discussion about their appearance after the event.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 1, 2011)

twistedAM said:


> I think dealing with Melody would poison most people.


 
She can poison me any day.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 1, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Funny how the male candidates don't get all this discussion about their appearance after the event.


 
There were some fairly vigorous discussions chez nous wrt Vince


----------



## Augie March (Jul 1, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> do you remember how the previous series were fixed? that they didn't hire the finalists based on their performances during the show?
> how in reality,  Sugar employed them on a probationary period for a couple months before the filming of 'you're hired' was made?
> 
> I reckon in this series they're looking at ways of backing a good business model.
> And it's as fixed as always.



It's not fixed, it's just been edited.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 1, 2011)

If Sugar is firing people more on the strength of their business plans than their performance in the task, it's fixed.


----------



## Bakunin (Jul 1, 2011)

8115 said:


> If Sugar is firing people more on the strength of their business plans than their performance in the task, it's fixed.


 
Of course it's fixed. it's so-called 'reality' TV. Big companies don't hire people based on their performance in some series of random tasks, when they go looking for new talent they usually go through corporate headhunters or by word of mouth. Besides, no corporate headhunter in their right mind would touch the typical Apprentice candidate with a sterilised bargepole, given that they're invariably third rate wannabe's with a PHD in whinging, backstabbing, self-delusion and possess the business acumen of a slug. The reason the Apprentice is so popular with viewers is that it appeals to the same tendency as exists in the people who used to pay to tour the old lunatic asylum at Bedlam, it's a chance to mock the animals in their cages from a safe distance. It's really a kind of sitcom rather than a meaningful contest of any kind.


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 1, 2011)

Every time I see this thread pop up, I think about that song Super Hans sung in Peep Show


----------



## big eejit (Jul 1, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> The reason the Apprentice is so popular with viewers is that it appeals to the same tendency as exists in the people who used to pay to tour the old lunatic asylum at Bedlam, it's a chance to mock the animals in their cages from a safe distance. It's really a kind of sitcom rather than a meaningful contest of any kind.



Bollox. The poor buggers in Bedlam didn't volunteer for national humiliation. The Apprentice appeals because people like to see smart-arses get their come-uppance. It's about hubris.


----------



## Augie March (Jul 2, 2011)

8115 said:


> If Sugar is firing people more on the strength of their business plans than their performance in the task, it's fixed.


 
From your point of view as the show's concept suggests that the task is the only reason for firings, but Sugar makes his decisions on more than just what happens in the task. If he has seen the business plans beforehand, that may play a part in those decisions. That doesn't means it's fixed, just that the audience doesn't see the whole process as it has been edited down to fit in a one hour episodic narrative.


----------



## binka (Jul 6, 2011)

should be a good one this week. like the way straight off susan was sent door to door hawking tat - obviously she is going to sell less than those in covent garden. im sure it will be pointed out she sold sod all in the boardroom if they lose


----------



## N_igma (Jul 6, 2011)

Haha if looks could kill! HOW DARE YOU QUESTION MY LEADERSHIP ABILITIES?


----------



## N_igma (Jul 6, 2011)

Jim is good!


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

Susie is opening a surprise can of whupass!

Jim ftw!

Looking like a Natasha / Melodie (Melanie?) nosedive!


----------



## N_igma (Jul 6, 2011)

Natasha is a cunt.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

Oh oh oh! There's a crunch point! Reinvestment!


----------



## Augie March (Jul 6, 2011)

Jim has a mental scarf.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 6, 2011)

"No, she was a terrible team leader". Right in there


----------



## r0bb0 (Jul 6, 2011)

nodding dogs ftw


----------



## N_igma (Jul 6, 2011)

Melody is FUCKED if they lose.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

r0bb0 said:


> nodding dogs ftw


 
Apprentices, nodding dogs, oh yes.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

N_igma said:


> Melody is FUCKED if they lose.


 
Both team leaders are in for a mahoosive can of whip-ass if they bite the dust.


----------



## r0bb0 (Jul 6, 2011)

natasha's pretty shite but suzie is bright and jim can push treacle up a hill


----------



## metalguru (Jul 6, 2011)

It's not often Susie is described as bright.


----------



## N_igma (Jul 6, 2011)

Haha go Tom!


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

Tom has suddenly turned into a backstabbing toe rag.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

Off you fuck, then.


----------



## N_igma (Jul 6, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Tom has suddenly turned into a backstabbing toe rag.


 
He had to to stay in. He's slowly realising that being a goody two shoes geek isn't going to win him any favours with siralan! 

Melody is a viscious cunt I'm glad she went! 

Susie or Natasha to go next week and the other 4 in the final interview!


----------



## big eejit (Jul 6, 2011)

This should be a good You're Fired. Melody completely lacking in self awareness should be funny.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 6, 2011)

N_igma said:


> He had to to stay in. He's slowly realising that being a goody two shoes geek isn't going to win him any favours with siralan!


 
The weird bit was that he started stabbing his own back, too. Just when Sugar was defocusing from him, he leapt in and said "IT'S MY FAULT I DIDN'T STOP THEM EVEN THOUGH I WAS NOWHERE NEAR THEM AND DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THEY WERE DOING" and from then on, Sugar was like "yeah! You don't do shit, you daft bastard!"

btw, Melody's doing alright with the self-awareness, so far, on YF, IMO.


----------



## al (Jul 6, 2011)

"Revenge of the Jedi" ??? Dara - your geek stripes have been taken away....


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 6, 2011)

Melody makes me think of this episode of the Simpsons


----------



## belboid (Jul 7, 2011)

Bakunin said:


> The reason the Apprentice is so popular with viewers is that it appeals to the same tendency as exists in the people who used to pay to tour the old lunatic asylum at Bedlam, it's a chance to mock the animals in their cages from a safe distance. It's really a kind of sitcom rather than a meaningful contest of any kind.


 
This isn't entirely wrong.  Yes of course it is a grossly distorted view of what goes on, and is probably terribly unfair on some people.  But, they are all people woh want to go into business with Alan fucking Sugar, so fuck them, they deserve everything they get.


----------



## belboid (Jul 7, 2011)

A very good episode, if only because it was either the vile Cacophony or the evil Natasha that was totally fucked.  Neither of them have a fucking clue, Cackers blatantly being just a middle class shit who was handpicked as a pretty 'role model' but who has never actually done anything real in her life.  Ten a penny bullshitbags. She created the most democractic organisation in the world ever?  What a fuckwit.

Natasha was so incompetent she made useless Susie look good!  Now that takes some doing.  Utterly pathetic on day one, our Suze ignored everything else and went back to doing the only thing she knows how to do - persuading fools that they need tatty 'beauty' products.  And she did good, well done,  Almost makes up for her falling asleep the day before.

Tom clearly has a great business plan and is going to have to fuck up badly (as oppossed to just not being very good) not to get into the final. Helen did well to show her evil business side with the attempted coup, but she still doesn't seem quite driven enough to get the dosh. She did choose the phone charger tho, which did come clsoe to saving their bacon as the only not shit product going


----------



## kabbes (Jul 7, 2011)

I agree with the above, although you left out Jim, who really shone since the guy knows how to sell retail goods.

Cacophony was even more bullshitty on the aftershow.  I donb't think even she knows what she does.  She certainly can't articulate it, given every opportunity and a free floor.  Let alone use the opportunity as a platform for her business, which is what she would have done had she the first clue.

I come across Cacophony types all the time -- utter, utter mediocrity desperately trying to hide their vacuous lack of anything at all with bullshit.

Wish somebody had asked her what "personally trained by" means.  I bet it means that she once went to a lecture given by Gore etc., probably to a crowd of thousands.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Wish somebody had asked her what "personally trained by" means.  I bet it means that she once went to a lecture given by Gore etc., probably to a crowd of thousands.


 
I thought it was a euphemism for 'Al Gore did me up the arse when I was at College....but he stopped halfway through to tell me off about being such a brash, loudmouthed upstart'.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 7, 2011)

I am glad Melody has gone, she was a snake in the grass with a vastly overinflated view of her own competance. 

That show should be named, "the nodding dog show" as it was plainly the star of the episode. 

I like Tom, but Jim was the standout star of this episode imho.

Interesting to see Helen get it so dramatically wrong, selling to retail at a very low margin and then wasting most of a day on some duvet covers when the punter had already gone home!


----------



## kabbes (Jul 7, 2011)

Her ridiculous company is called "InspirEngage", by the way.  Its website doesn't seem to be operational, thus making it impossible to even start to check her claims.  

And her personal website is a hilarious hodge-podge of poor grammar and horrendously misjudged tone of voice, with a particular favourite being the way she switches between first-person and third-person at the drop of a hat ("In March 2009 I launched InspirEngage International single-handedly and ’til this day run every single aspect of the company alone. I started with... Melody now supports building people’s capacities to reach their own vision.")

She also seems very mixed up by these awards -- on the show, she claimed them personally.  On her website, they seem to be attributed to her company.

Unbelievable bullshitter, but of the type mediocre CEOs fall for.  I'm sure she'll continue to do very well for herself without ever really being able to explain why.


----------



## big eejit (Jul 7, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I am glad Melody has gone, she was a snake in the grass with a vastly overinflated view of her own competance.
> 
> That show should be named, "the nodding dog show" as it was plainly the star of the episode.
> 
> ...



Sugar (and Tom) said what I said about Helen a week or so ago - she's very well organised, but surely Sugar's looking for more than that. Luckily for her mad Melody stood out as being massively useless as team leader.

Can't see Natasha surviving next week. She was useless and very mean to Susan.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 7, 2011)

big eejit said:


> Sugar (and Tom) said what I said about Helen a week or so ago - she's very well organised, but surely Sugar's looking for more than that. Luckily for her mad Melody stood out as being massively useless as team leader.
> 
> Can't see Natasha surviving next week. She was useless and very mean to Susan.


 
I agree about Natasha, she was worse than useless this week. 

But to be fair Susan is not exactly superb, though she is a nice enough person, it was hilarious when she was awoken by the phone and immediately said, "I havent stopped..... "


----------



## weltweit (Jul 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Her ridiculous company is called "InspirEngage", by the way.  Its website doesn't seem to be operational, thus making it impossible to even start to check her claims.
> ....


 
If my own company was remotely successful, I would not be chasing a £250k 50:50 start up with Alan Sugar. I would be concentrating on growing my own business. 

Melody and also Tom to a slightly lesser extent have seemed suspicious to me because of it. 

Tom for example I think said that he had orders for 35,000 units of his own product. So why is he not focussing on building that business?


----------



## kabbes (Jul 7, 2011)

I can see that Tom could benefit from Sugar's contacts and public profile.  That could help him make his business bigger.

Natasha: Natasha has been useless from day 1 and has scraped by through being in the winning team a lot (not that she has had much to do with the wins).  She substitutes aggression for actual ideas and is a total corporate drone to boot.  She won't last until the end. 

There's always at least one that manages to scrape through to the end purely on the basis of never really being in the firing line.  This year that person is Natasha.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 7, 2011)

Is it when they get down to 4 that they have the interview task? 

I always enjoy that one  

The interviewers seem to wade through the bullshit quite effectively.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I can see that Tom could benefit from Sugar's contacts and public profile.  That could help him make his business bigger.
> ....


 
Yes, that is probably true. 

Although I don't know what his product is, I get the impression it could be something that Sugar would like.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 7, 2011)

I did so want to see Melody asked about her personal training and not-just-talk global business.  Oh well.


----------



## trashpony (Jul 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I can see that Tom could benefit from Sugar's contacts and public profile.  That could help him make his business bigger.
> 
> Natasha: Natasha has been useless from day 1 and has scraped by through being in the winning team a lot (not that she has had much to do with the wins).  She substitutes aggression for actual ideas and is a total corporate drone to boot.  She won't last until the end.
> 
> There's always at least one that manages to scrape through to the end purely on the basis of never really being in the firing line.  This year that person is Natasha.



Natasha is going to be made mincemeat of this evening in the interview programme. 

She was a bloody liar last night, as was Zoe last week. I find it astounding that people can tell such barefaced lies when a) the person they are lying to knows they are lying and b) they are being filmed. They all have such rhino-thick skins that I don't think they even notice


----------



## Santino (Jul 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I did so want to see Melody asked about her personal training and not-just-talk global business.  Oh well.



The producers have to walk a thin line between making people look a bit foolish and destroying the whole basis of their personalities.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I did so want to see Melody asked about her personal training and not-just-talk global business.  Oh well.


 
Yes, that would have made car crash tv!!


----------



## weltweit (Jul 7, 2011)

trashpony said:


> Natasha is going to be made mincemeat of this evening in the interview programme.
> ...


 
Oh, is it tonight?


----------



## strung out (Jul 7, 2011)

no. no interviews for at least 2 weeks (if they're going to have interviews at all. after all, they're not applying for a job with sugar this time). they're just having a profile show tonight.


----------



## boing! (Jul 7, 2011)

The way Natasha says 'yeah' at the end of each sentence makes her one of the most annoying characters on the Apprentice I can remember, without even taking in to account her uselessness.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 7, 2011)

boing! said:


> The way Natasha says 'yeah' at the end of each sentence makes her one of the most annoying characters on the Apprentice I can remember, without even taking in to account her uselessness.


 
The kabbess insists in mocking her by saying "yeah", every time she says "yeah".  This is actually even more annoying than the original "yeah".


----------



## strung out (Jul 7, 2011)

yeah?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 7, 2011)

I'm so glad Melody has gone. Every time LordSugar pondered if she made sense behind the jabba made me want to scream noooo she doesn't. I don't buy for one minute what she said in Your Fired about the bullish arrogance being a cover for her insecurities. An image consultant has advised her to say that. I bet she really is that deluded and full of herself.

Natasha Natasha. 
During the task: My negative of riding people gets the best out of them....
After the task: Having to manage your negative moods Suze caused me to take my eye off strategy.

Suze should have just answered with the question of How much did I sell on the day and how much did you sell? Did I really need to be managed at all when i was outselling you?


----------



## 8115 (Jul 7, 2011)

I love it at the beginning when they say "Britain's entrepenurial elite", and I always think, "really?".  If all entrepeneurs were like that capitalism would be done with within about 5 minutes.  Sugar specifically said, this task is about buying and selling more of goods that sell well, margins etc, and they just pissied around in Knightsbridge and buying new crap like alarm clocks.  Nobody apart from Jim seemed to see the point of the task at all.  Thank god Melody's gone.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 7, 2011)

Gromit said:


> I don't buy for one minute what she said in Your Fired about the bullish arrogance being a cover for her insecurities. An image consultant has advised her to say that. I bet she really is that deluded and full of herself.


 
All arrogance is about insecurity. Whether or not she believes that is a different matter!


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 7, 2011)

Melody is gone...shame, I was liking her for all the wrong reasons.

Sith-Lord Jim is back.
Hate that such a thicko like Natasha is bullying 'It's So Unfair' Susie.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 7, 2011)

I like Natasha.  Yeah, yeah?


----------



## Augie March (Jul 7, 2011)

Has this Radio Times cover from a few weeks ago, given the game away a bit early? I remember seeing it and thinking: "I wonder if that is the final four?" and we are now one firing away from it being true.


----------



## belboid (Jul 7, 2011)

They might just keep Natasha in for amusement value, just to let us watch her being ripped to pieces a la The brand last series.  That would be nice.  Doubt it tho, Sugar has made it clear he thinks she’s an idiot (at best). Whoever is one her team next week should have a smile on their face, knowing they are safe.
I still can’t quite make Jim out, clearly a very competent person, with the gift of the gab, and does see what each task is actually about, but there’s something about him that just doesn’t cut it, too much of a bullshit merchant for another bullshit merchant like Sugar?
Susie I am now wondering whether she might sneak through to the final just cos she has one good idea that Sugar would like, and he has said already that he’d have gone into beauty if it wasn’t electronics, so maybe...but she’s still fucking useless, and its hard to really see a relationship like that working.
The ‘ideal’ result would be getting Helen in to manage Toms project, that could actually work, but, obviously, it isn’t allowed.  
Or is it?  



kabbes said:


> Her ridiculous company is called "InspirEngage", by the way.  Its website doesn't seem to be operational, thus making it impossible to even start to check her claims.
> 
> And her personal website is a hilarious hodge-podge of poor grammar and horrendously misjudged tone of voice, with a particular favourite being the way she switches between first-person and third-person at the drop of a hat ("In March 2009 I launched InspirEngage International single-handedly and ’til this day run every single aspect of the company alone. I started with... Melody now supports building people’s capacities to reach their own vision.")
> 
> ...


 
I managed to find out what the 'most democratic organisation in the history of the world' was - the UK Youth Parliament. Which is, fair enough, a successful and reasonably competent and kinda democratic organisation.  Her involvement does seem to be real, if not quite at the level she pretends. As for what her 'global business' actually does....well, it obviously does fuck all apart from send her out top give inspiring speeches with lots of lovely buzzwords in it. You meet so many people like her in the voluntary sector, if she manages to find something real to do - and employs competent people to actually deliver, she could be successful, but I doubt her ego will allow her to employ anyone she might see as a threat to herself.  Still, she's the first 'with regret' of the series, we wont get that when Natasha goes next week.

I can imagine she really did get a sort of personal tutoring from everyone she said.  Frankly, an audience with the idiot Dalai Lama is easy to get, and an invitation to an 'intimate' speech/hours training session by Gore is perfectly plausible for someone n that kind of role.But it would only be like one of those kids Bush was reading to when he heard about the twin towers


----------



## 8115 (Jul 7, 2011)

Augie March said:


> Has this Radio Times cover from a few weeks ago, given the game away a bit early? I remember seeing it and thinking: "I wonder if that is the final four?" and we are now one firing away from it being true.


 
No, they said in tiny writing, "not a spoiler".


----------



## electroplated (Jul 7, 2011)

live web chat with Melody on right now

http://www.stylist.co.uk/stylist-network/the-apprentice/apprentice-web-chat-melody-hossaini

some good trolling in there amongst the dross



> Al Gore
> 
> We've NEVER met!





> Dick Van Hyke
> 
> Have you ever swept a chimney? If so, you'd be the most glamourous person to ever do so!






> Whoops
> 
> Hi Melody, I believe attention to detail is a great skill in business. Do you realise your own name is written as Medody?


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Jul 7, 2011)

Why didn't lovely Susie get any credit in the boardroom for her bracelet selling idea?


----------



## belboid (Jul 7, 2011)

my guess would be because, altho they obviously sold well (or at least Susie sold them well, whilst a certain other person did fuck all), buying some crap that you know sells well wasn't the point of the task.  And she didnt go back and buy any more.  She should have got a little bit of credit tho, tis true.


----------



## Me76 (Jul 7, 2011)

I am very glad Melody has gone. 

Natasha next.  She has done nothing good throughout the whole series and is down right nasty and bullying when she does open her mouth - 'yeah!'  Also, her weird grey/blue badly put on make up is really doing my head in!


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 7, 2011)

I have this great idea for an app, ok, where you're you and I'm me, and what it does is, what happens is, you want to ask me a question, no I want to ask you a question, but we're standing next to each other, so what this app does is.....


----------



## pianissimo (Jul 7, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> I have this great idea for an app, ok, where you're you and I'm me, and what it does is, what happens is, you want to ask me a question, no I want to ask you a question, but we're standing next to each other, so what this app does is.....


 
Ah... that was awful.  But Susie is getting better each week.  She just needs to think before opening her mouth.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 7, 2011)




----------



## pianissimo (Jul 7, 2011)

Sugar would hire Helen as a PA, Jim as a salesman.
But as for business partner, he'd either choose Tom or Susie.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 7, 2011)

There is much room for full-on professional character assassination, come the interview round.

I reckon Susie would be righteously slaughtered by Sugar's chosen interviewers. Butchered, wrung out, and left dangling as a hollowed-out wreck on a convenient Sugarcorpsepole. Dainty pink intestines strewn all over the floor.


----------



## strung out (Jul 7, 2011)

is there actually going to be an interview round though? last year the interviews happened when there were five contestants left, but this year, we've just got another task for the final five...


----------



## kabbes (Jul 7, 2011)

I vote for "all mangled and killed".


----------



## Santino (Jul 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I vote for "all mangled and killed".


 
That's your answer for everything.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 7, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I vote for "all mangled and killed".


 
I am guessing that insurance premiums for an 'all mangled and killed' population would be exorbitantly high. If you were insuring against loss related to mangling and killing, that is.


strung out said:


> is there actually going to be an interview round though? last year the interviews happened when there were five contestants left, but this year, we've just got another task for the final five...


 
How can there not be? Will there not be? HOW can there not be?

It seems like such a cracking opportunity for in-depth and detailed psychological assassination; I can't quite believe that they'd let it slip. All the rest of the stuff is airy-fairy floaty-light boardroom frippery. When you get down to the gritstone, you kinda need a full-on day of brutal and soul-destroying investigative destruction. Prise apart their weaknesses so that LORD Sugar can place the blade with proper rectitude and glory.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> That's your answer for everything.


 
The original "All Mangled and Killed".  For reference and education.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 7, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> How can there not be? Will there not be? HOW can there not be?
> ...


 
I always find it amusing when the interviewers disagree with each other.


----------



## Augie March (Jul 7, 2011)

I find it amusing when the interviewers don't know what ISP stands for, despite them being a Chief Executive of a company dealing in computing.


----------



## belboid (Jul 7, 2011)

the interview round is apparently going to be part of the final round, according to my -url=http://www.new-magazine.co.uk/latestnews/view/32118/The-Apprentice-2011-Why-the-final-wil-be-very-different-this-year/]utterly unimpeachable source[/url], with 4 of them in it.  Not quite sure how that'll work, no big grand task to finish them off with. Seems a bit silly, but hey ho


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 8, 2011)

The interview is the best part of the show, the stage where all of their lies are uncovered.
I imagine a presentation of some sorts, mainly the reselling of their business plan in Dragon Den style.

Apart from Tom, who else is not providing a service? Susie maybe?


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 8, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I did so want to see Melody asked about her personal training and not-just-talk global business.  Oh well.


 
It was funny on "You're fired" when Dara tried to pin her down with "what do you actually do?" and she remained as vague as she appeared throughout the competition.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 9, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> There is much room for full-on professional character assassination, come the interview round.
> 
> I reckon Susie would be righteously slaughtered by Sugar's chosen interviewers. Butchered, wrung out, and left dangling as a hollowed-out wreck on a convenient Sugarcorpsepole. Dainty pink intestines strewn all over the floor.


 
I think this is so obvious.
And at the same time, they're unable to disprove her earnings...
her company wasn't even registered until this year!!

Fucking hell, who selects these people?


----------



## belboid (Jul 13, 2011)

it must be the most obvious outcome in the world tonight.  surely natasha will go no matter what. His Lordship tried to fix it to dump her last week, to no avail, she can't be lucky again.

And the winner will be..... judging from their websites... Helen doesn't seem to have any business idea at all, Susies is jolly nice but looks totally ununique (there must be a better word for that than that), but Toms looks good.  Rather hit and miss tho, a bunch of fun ideas but no kind of coherent whole.  And Jims?  Jim has no website.  So he is going to win.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 13, 2011)

Well Natasha could end up luckily riding the coat-tails of the winning team again!


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 13, 2011)

Are they still in teams this week?


----------



## strung out (Jul 13, 2011)

yes


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jul 13, 2011)

The Apprentice- after total failure of the task, Rupert is bringing Les, Rebekah & James into the boardroom and NONE of them will be fired.


----------



## N_igma (Jul 13, 2011)

"What does 'el' mean?" CHRIST!


----------



## binka (Jul 13, 2011)

these people are so thick. what does 'el' mean? its maracas not caracas. whats caracas?


----------



## strung out (Jul 13, 2011)

binka said:


> these people are so thick. what does 'el' mean? its maracas not caracas. whats caracas?


 
capital city of venezuela


----------



## killer b (Jul 13, 2011)

'I strongly feel we should just have a sombrero'


----------



## starfish (Jul 13, 2011)

Comedy gold


----------



## binka (Jul 13, 2011)

yep. their mexican restaurant is now named after the capital of venezuela


----------



## N_igma (Jul 13, 2011)

Was Byron writing at the same time as Shakespeare? Even when they're talking smart they still sound thick as shit!


----------



## binka (Jul 13, 2011)

im disapointed with tom there. columbus discovering the potato


----------



## N_igma (Jul 13, 2011)

At least it's not called Titty Kaka.


----------



## starfish (Jul 13, 2011)




----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 13, 2011)

Christopher Columbus was British!


----------



## binka (Jul 13, 2011)

theres been some absolute gold this week already. the boardroom is going to be brilliant and so is you're fired


----------



## N_igma (Jul 13, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Christopher Columbus was British!


 
Yeh he discovered Las Vegas with Black Beard.


----------



## binka (Jul 13, 2011)

difficult to know who is going to fail most. think caracas is edging it just now


----------



## r0bb0 (Jul 13, 2011)

that steak py looks pretty good


----------



## al (Jul 13, 2011)

binka said:


> yep. their mexican restaurant is now named after the capital of venezuela



Except that they've added a redundant apostrophe - they've called it Caraca's


----------



## r0bb0 (Jul 13, 2011)

the nachos look rank


----------



## N_igma (Jul 13, 2011)

Haha it's really Mexican sounding! D'oh, worst thing is those business heads won't even catch on themselves!


----------



## Augie March (Jul 13, 2011)

Jedi Jim has lost his mojo.


----------



## binka (Jul 13, 2011)

jim just went a bit mental there


----------



## binka (Jul 13, 2011)

N_igma said:


> Haha it's really Mexican sounding! D'oh, worst thing is those business heads won't even catch on themselves!


 
just what im thinking, they think the branding is really strong and obviously dont know what/where caracas is


----------



## Santino (Jul 13, 2011)

I think there's going to be a Harry Potter emergency.


----------



## killer b (Jul 13, 2011)

Are none of them allowed to check the internet for the accuracy of their branding?


----------



## strung out (Jul 13, 2011)

think the internet is banned


----------



## binka (Jul 13, 2011)

will be shocked if mypy doesnt win. which will be funny because susie will get blamed again!


----------



## r0bb0 (Jul 13, 2011)

my py ftw


----------



## Augie March (Jul 13, 2011)

I'm fairly certain they are never allowed on the internet. Someone might have least checked what nationality Columbus was if they were allowed.


----------



## N_igma (Jul 13, 2011)

Mypy sounds pornograhic though!


----------



## al (Jul 13, 2011)

definitely no interview round then...


----------



## binka (Jul 13, 2011)

that cafe looks bleaker every week


----------



## strung out (Jul 13, 2011)

apparently there's an interview section as part of the final round. so i heard.


----------



## Augie March (Jul 13, 2011)

al said:


> definitely no interview round then...



The interview round is the final.


----------



## N_igma (Jul 13, 2011)

Susie or Natasha to go! Would be really surprised if Jim lost tonight!


----------



## binka (Jul 13, 2011)

if they had brains they'd gang up on jim for his crap branding, crap food and no organisation. dont expect it to happen though


----------



## Augie March (Jul 13, 2011)

Natasha will be fired yeah?


----------



## binka (Jul 13, 2011)

mental arithmetic is a strong side of mine and that was an uncharacteristic error


----------



## N_igma (Jul 13, 2011)

Woo hoo!


----------



## dirtyfruit (Jul 13, 2011)

50:50 male/female final

although I would definitely have very angry sex with Natasha!


----------



## Augie March (Jul 13, 2011)

8115 said:


> No, they said in tiny writing, "not a spoiler".


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 13, 2011)

Augie March said:


>



So that cover was right!! Naughty Radio Times.


----------



## N_igma (Jul 13, 2011)

She's looking nice in the You're Fired!


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 13, 2011)

dirtyfruit said:


> 50:50 male/female final
> 
> although I would definitely have very angry sex with Natasha!


 
filthy little boy!


----------



## big eejit (Jul 13, 2011)

Discussion on You're Fired is more pointless than usual. Matasha was never going to get through. She was absolutely useless. Jim and Susan would've had to have been caught spitting in Sugar's nachos to get the boot.


----------



## Augie March (Jul 13, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> So that cover was right!! Naughty Radio Times.


 
They probably did just pick the most recognisable candidates to put on the cover. But as soon as I saw it, the seed was planted in my head that they would be the final four.


----------



## maomao (Jul 13, 2011)

God. Most contestants, even Melody, were far nicer on Your Fired than they were on the programme but Natasha is still an ignorant unpleasant cunt.


----------



## Santino (Jul 13, 2011)

Harry Potter emergency on You're Fired!


----------



## big eejit (Jul 13, 2011)

Radio Times cover

http://twitpic.com/5popa9


----------



## trashpony (Jul 13, 2011)

Okay so judging by where he was pointing, it's going to be Jim or Susan that get the job. How disappointing


----------



## Santino (Jul 13, 2011)

trashpony said:


> Okay so judging by where he was pointing, it's going to be Jim or Susan that get the job. How disappointing


 
Nah, they pick a random shot of him for that bit. I've been caught out that way before.


----------



## big eejit (Jul 13, 2011)

Santino said:


> Nah, they pick a random shot of him for that bit. I've been caught out that way before.


 
True, that never works.

Another task that relied heavily on organisation skills tonight, which is why Helen's team did so well. I think Sugar will go for Jim or Tom.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 13, 2011)

It was the right choice tonight. She failed to get into the task.

Susan stepped up a bit on this one and Jim looked lost without her.

Columbus! FFS!


----------



## trashpony (Jul 13, 2011)

Santino said:


> Nah, they pick a random shot of him for that bit. I've been caught out that way before.


 
Oh good. I've been right with that one so perhaps it's just been random because I think he'd be insane to pick either of those two


----------



## gabi (Jul 13, 2011)

Helens the most employable by a stretch. Creative and highly intelligent by the looks. Hope he goes for the comedy option of susan tho


----------



## Part 2 (Jul 13, 2011)

Two friends of mine came up with the MyPy idea at work a few years ago except they called it TryPie, right down to having three different pies and a meal deal where you got a taste of each pie. In fact the song they did for the advert had 'Come and try my pie' in the lyrics. 

I've a feeling Jim will win purely based on belboid's website research.


----------



## big eejit (Jul 13, 2011)

gabi said:


> Helens the most employable by a stretch. Creative and highly intelligent by the looks. Hope he goes for the comedy option of susan tho



I think Helen's brilliant but I think her main strength is organising stuff. Which probably isn't what Sugar wants.

Susan is probably too young and scatty. Sugar likes Jim cos he's an old-fashioned businessman and good bullshitter. Tom has great background and getting stronger but a bit of a boffin-y engineer which Sugar distrusts.

So Tom or Jim I reckon.


----------



## trashpony (Jul 13, 2011)

Jim hadn't even worked out the profit margins not to mention how to actually serve the fucking food. He has no idea of how to cost things, he's proved that time and again. I wouldn't hire him. He's a great salesperson but that's it


----------



## big eejit (Jul 13, 2011)

trashpony said:


> Jim hadn't even worked out the profit margins not to mention how to actually serve the fucking food. He has no idea of how to cost things, he's proved that time and again. I wouldn't hire him. He's a great salesperson but that's it


 
True but Sugar 'gets' Jim. I think Tom or Jim depending on what how their business propostion stacks up. Based on evidence so far, Jim's is probably written on the back of a fag packet and he'll have no idea of any important details.


----------



## gabi (Jul 13, 2011)

big eejit said:


> I think Helen's brilliant but I think her main strength is organising stuff. Which probably isn't what Sugar wants.
> 
> Susan is probably too young and scatty. Sugar likes Jim cos he's an old-fashioned businessman and good bullshitter. Tom has great background and getting stronger but a bit of a boffin-y engineer which Sugar distrusts.
> 
> So Tom or Jim I reckon.



Helen and Tom together would be ideal i reckon. maybe he'll hire em both?


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 13, 2011)

so, with out googling, who else thought columbus was spanish.


----------



## Paul Russell (Jul 13, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> so, with out googling, who else thought columbus was spanish.


 
Going by the TV series, I thought he was Irish American.


----------



## N_igma (Jul 13, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> so, with out googling, who else thought columbus was spanish.


 
Not me!


----------



## weltweit (Jul 13, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> so, with out googling, who else thought columbus was spanish.


 
The Spanish claim him as their discoverer of America. 

But he was brought up in Italy.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 13, 2011)

weltweit said:


> The Spanish claim him as their discoverer of America.
> 
> But he was brought up in Italy.


 


> His name in Italian is Cristoforo Colombo and in Spanish it is Cristóbal Colón.
> ...
> Some modern historians have argued that Columbus was not from Genoa, but instead, from Catalonia,[11] Portugal,[12] or Spain.[13] These competing hypotheses have generally been discounted by mainstream scholars.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Columbus


----------



## gabi (Jul 13, 2011)

i thought spanish.

i did lol at Caraca's tho in my defence. not sure karren brady twigged to that.


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 13, 2011)

big eejit said:


> Radio Times cover
> 
> http://twitpic.com/5popa9


 

hey - that's my twitpic (thanks to quoggy and whoever mentioned it first, btw - i did rake through the thread a bit but couldn't find it...)


----------



## dirtyfruit (Jul 14, 2011)

Helen and Tom will get it on


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

the woman on you're fired had it spot on.  it depends on how much effort sugar can be arsed to pit in,  if its a lot, susie will win, if he wants an easy ride, tom or jim depending on whose business plan stacks up best


----------



## toblerone3 (Jul 14, 2011)

Susie has a big advantage. She is Chinese. She will get it.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

Chip Barm said:


> Two friends of mine came up with the MyPy idea at work a few years ago except they called it TryPie, right down to having three different pies and a meal deal where you got a taste of each pie. In fact the song they did for the advert had 'Come and try my pie' in the lyrics.
> 
> I've a feeling Jim will win purely based on belboid's website research.


There is a fucking excellent takeaway in Leamington called The Great British Takeaway. Three proper chefs who own it and do all the work between them. Spit roast pork, roast beef in a Yorkshire wrap, proper pies made daily, and a pie meal with choice of chips or mash, and peas/mushy peas or beans. And as much gravy as you want. They always give me an extra pot as well as what they put in the box.  

They do a fucking excellent Sunday lunch too, and will deliver. It beats any carvery I've been to. 

We've had no running water for weeks, so finding a takeaway that does recognisable veg is fucking wonderful. 

I'm gonna put a link to them in, because they are lovely boys doing a great job, and I have no personal connection. Sorry if it puts any spam hackles up. www.greatbritish-takeaway.co.uk


----------



## rorymac (Jul 14, 2011)




----------



## big eejit (Jul 14, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> hey - that's my twitpic (thanks to quoggy and whoever mentioned it first, btw - i did rake through the thread a bit but couldn't find it...)


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 14, 2011)

toblerone3 said:


> Susie has a big advantage. She is Chinese. She will get it.


 
Wow, such insight. So when did Alan Sugar become Wen Jiabao?


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 14, 2011)

I thought he was Portugese.  Din't he go out as part of the Portugese expedition?


Also.  Can I just say I love susie.  LOVE.


----------



## N_igma (Jul 14, 2011)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> I thought he was Portugese.  Din't he go out as part of the Portugese expedition?


 
No he just left from Portugal. He's also a cunt who pretty much oversaw the genocide of native people's in the carribean.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Wow, such insight. So when did Alan Sugar become Wen Jiabao?


Ambitious European business types have been taking classes in Mandarin for a decade or so now. All he means is that Sugar might be very interested in an easy way into China.

I don't think she has enough local connections to interest him that much, but I don't think the poster intended to be offensive. He's commenting on our economic fuckedness.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Jul 14, 2011)

I love Susie too


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

she's still a fucking idiot


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> she's still a fucking idiot


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Jul 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> she's still a fucking idiot


----------



## N_igma (Jul 14, 2011)

Erm you can't deny the fact she is a complete fucking idiot just look at some of the things she says. Same goes for the rest of them, even Tom who I thought might have had a bit of sense but completely let himself down last night!


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 14, 2011)

Everyone says stupid shit all the time.  I don't think she's an idiot.  Just has my problem of mouth engage first.

If you think about how much stupid shit you THINK all day.  If you you SAID all that stupid shit people would assume you were an idiot.

She's not an idiot.


----------



## N_igma (Jul 14, 2011)

So she doesn't think before she speaks? Sounds like an idiot to me! I think stupid stuff all day but I daren't say them!


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 14, 2011)

ymu said:


> Ambitious European business types have been taking classes in Mandarin for a decade or so now. All he means is that Sugar might be very interested in an easy way into China.
> 
> I don't think she has enough local connections to interest him that much, but I don't think the poster intended to be offensive. He's commenting on our economic fuckedness.


 
Susan was brought up in this country. I don't even think she can read or write Chinese.
And cos she's Singaporean, if she did speak Chinese it'll more likely be Cantonese or Hakka/ Hokkien and not Mandarin.
And culturally, Mainland Chinese will have see her the same as Tom, Helen or Jim. She is alien to them.

I don't see the advantages.

ETA - I didn't find the poster's wording as offensive. Just random like saying 'Tom will win cos he has no chin and looks like a chicken.'


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 14, 2011)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> I thought he was Portugese.  Din't he go out as part of the Portugese expedition?
> 
> 
> Also.  Can I just say I love susie.  LOVE.


 Wasn't that Vasco de Gama (wish I'd listened better in school now). The Columbus thing was a bit of a blunder tho, altho I too thought he was Spanish not Italian. I think they meant Sir Walter Raleigh.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 14, 2011)

Sugar likes Tom because he is a product person. He had the opportunity a number of times to fire Tom but did not take it. I suspect Tom's business plan is likely to be the most attractive to Sugar. Tom cannot be ruled out as a possible winner.

Sugar likes Jim because he is a good sales person and puts the effort in, however Jim does not put together business plans and detailed costings like Tom does and that is likely to be a big weakness when they get to the business plans / interview stages on Sunday. 

Susy for me is an unknown quantity, even after all these weeks the things that stick in the mind are : "do the French love their children?" and other innanities, I just can't see Susan winning the final prize. 

Sugar seems lukewarm to Helen, despite that she has won most of the tasks and probably won more than all the rest of them. He distrusts her because she has been a PA, she is very well organised and it will be interesting to see what kind of a business plan she has. 

Personally I think Sugar might well chose Tom, despite the negatives because he will like Tom's buisiness plan the most.


----------



## dynamicbaddog (Jul 14, 2011)

I like Jim, but I don't think he'll win, Sugar thinks he's too much of a bullshitter. Gonna be between Helen and Susan I reckon.


----------



## OneStrike (Jul 14, 2011)

How does the process work with regards to their business plans post show?  Is Shuggs aware of their proposals or does he not find out until the winner is declared?


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

jhelen has no chance, unless she has a brilliant and innovative business plan, which doesnt seem likely.  Jim's too full of shit, he'll fall apart on the figures.  And Susan's an idiot.


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> How does the process work with regards to their business plans post show?  Is Shuggs aware of their proposals or does he not find out until the winner is declared?


 
They rip them apart on sunday


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Susan was brought up in this country. I don't even think she can read or write Chinese.
> And cos she's Singaporean, if she did speak Chinese it'll more likely be Cantonese or Hakka/ Hokkien and not Mandarin.
> And culturally, Mainland Chinese will have see her the same as Tom, Helen or Jim. She is alien to them.
> 
> ...


 
You could have saved yourself some typing by reading my second paragraph. Explaining what somone else meant does not imply that I agree with them.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 14, 2011)

ymu said:


> *You could have saved yourself some typing by reading my second paragraph*. Explaining what somone else meant does not imply that I agree with them.


 
Very true. My brain is a bit scatty of late, misreading/ quoting - lack of sleep.
So forgive my misunderstanding, it wasn't directed towards you.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 14, 2011)

If this was an ordinary apprentice where Alan is looking for someone to run one of his divisions then Helen would be the perfect candidate. It's not though. I can see her business plan being a money spinning winner. 

Sue. Cosmetics is a competitive market. She's made it small scale. Can she make it big upscaling her biz with Lord Sugar. I can't see it. 

Jim is an exceptional salesman. Too many business weaknesses though. 

Tom also has weaknesses but they are ones Lord Sugar can mitigate for the sake of his creative product brain. 

Tom is my fav to win this year's format, despite the fact he'd have never won in past years.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Very true. My brain is a bit scatty of late, misreading/ quoting - lack of sleep.
> So forgive my misunderstanding, it wasn't directed towards you.


 
NP. Ratty myself this morning.  

I do agree that the original point was worded in a way that could be seen as insulting, but I don't think it was intended to be insulting, that's all. 

I'll just shut up I think.


----------



## Ms T (Jul 14, 2011)

sleaterkinney said:


> Christopher Columbus was British!


 
Their lack of general knowledge is jaw-dropping.


----------



## OneStrike (Jul 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> They rip them apart on sunday


 
Cheers, that makes sense, i should have worked that out really.  Jim will have a good idea but no proper planning or strategy presumably and a ridiculous name for the enterprise.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 14, 2011)

Helen will win, she's the only prefessional candidate who Sugar trusts, I think he'll take a gamble on her never having run her own business before and she is a kick-ass organiser who does not make mistakes.  Jim's an accident waiting to happen, Tom wants a vanity company for his own inventions and Susan is just too young.  She's incapable of managing other people, although I would say definitely give her 10 years and she'll be a force to be reckoned with.

Caraca's was also the worst brand ever.  And as for their organisation of the food side, they seemed to think that they could stick one girl in the kitchen and leave her to turn out £5000 worth of food in two hours without telling her what to do.  Also you put the sour cream on nachos after you've heated them up.  Everyone knows that.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

Helen won't win. The only task she fucked up on was the 'how to start a business like wot Sugar did'.

Tom or Susan. Jim is a joke and Helen just doesn't cut it. He's looking for a business partner and not an apprentice because of the financial situation. Susan just needs to learn to filter her thoughts, and he does love people who've done it all themselves - and she really has ... quite remarkable achievements for a 21 year old, and he loves that. Tom is good on ideas but weak on branding (IMO), so it will depend a lot on how much - and what type of - extra input Sugar expects to bring in to support the entrepreneurial shit, as well as their business plans (and how much he wants to swallow up their existing businesses too, at a guess).


----------



## Big Gunz (Jul 14, 2011)

Gromit said:


> If this was an ordinary apprentice where Alan is looking for someone to run one of his divisions then Helen would be the perfect candidate. It's not though. I can see her business plan being a money spinning winner.
> 
> Sue. Cosmetics is a competitive market. She's made it small scale. Can she make it big upscaling her biz with Lord Sugar. I can't see it.
> 
> ...


 
No chance, Susan will win it.  Tom's business acumen is questionable, he blunders his way through the tasks.  And everything is with hindsight with him.  Hindsight is no bloody good if you just ballsed up a massive business deal.

Susan has done it and although raw has the experience and talent to succeed


----------



## 8115 (Jul 14, 2011)

ymu said:


> Helen won't win. The only task she fucked up on was the 'how to start a business like wot Sugar did'.


 
That task was close though, and everyone totally ballsed it up.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

8115 said:


> That task was close though, and everyone totally ballsed it up.


How does that change the fact that she tried to sell to retailers at a tiny margin? He told them what to do, and she didn't get it. She was acting like it was a 'promote this designers products for them' sort of task, not a basic buy and sell thing. He was gutted about it too cos he thought she was great before that.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 14, 2011)

Big Gunz said:


> Susan has done it and although raw has the experience and talent to succeed


 
Susan, yep .... 

Dozing in the back of the car, ring ring , ring ring ring ring - hello, - I havent stopped all day - all day .


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

Sugar would probly kill Susan if they went into partnership, her stupidity and inability to keep her gob shut would drive him up the wall. And her business (assuming it is just an extension of what she does already) is deeply dull and unoriginal, no reason why it would thrive, even with Sugars support.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> Sugar would probly kill Susan if they went into partnership, her stupidity and inability to keep her gob shut would drive him up the wall. And her business (assuming it is just an extension of what she does already) is deeply dull and unoriginal, no reason why it would thrive, even with Sugars support.


 
He's not that sure about Tom either, and Susan has all the tie-breaker brownie points. It's a different sort of relationship, and it will depend massively on how he intends to run it. I doubt he's going to be very hands on, so it may come down to whether he has a deputy who could put up with her.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 14, 2011)

Sugar said to Susan "there are very few people with a good word to say about you".  He's not (that) stupid.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 14, 2011)

Gah!  It doesn't matter at this stage who did what or who said what or who likes whom!  It only matters which business proposal Sugar likes the most!  Don't be fooled by the programme-makers into believing anything else.  If Jim has the best one, he'll be chosen.  Ditto any of the rest of them.  My guess is that Tom will have the best one, since he clearly knows how to do a good job of making such a plan, plus it will be all about products to make and sell.  Everything else is irrelevant.


----------



## fakeplasticgirl (Jul 14, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Susan, yep ....
> 
> Dozing in the back of the car, ring ring , ring ring ring ring - hello, - I havent stopped all day - all day .


 
oh come on - that was just clever editing


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 14, 2011)

ymu said:


> Helen won't win. The only task she fucked up on was the 'how to start a business like wot Sugar did'.
> 
> Tom or Susan. Jim is a joke and Helen just doesn't cut it. He's looking for a business partner and not an apprentice because of the financial situation. Susan just needs to learn to filter her thoughts, and he does love people who've done it all themselves - and she really has ... quite remarkable achievements for a 21 year old, and he loves that. *Tom is good on ideas but weak on branding* (IMO), so it will depend a lot on how much - and what type of - extra input Sugar expects to bring in to support the entrepreneurial shit, as well as their business plans (and how much he wants to swallow up their existing businesses too, at a guess).


 

Disagree - he branded the whole MyPy thing pretty much on his own and it was really well done.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

spanglechick said:


> Disagree - he branded the whole MyPy thing pretty much on his own and it was really well done.


 
I thought it was really weak. It looked nice, but I couldn't identify a brand image. It looked like the sort of kit companies lug to conferences to set up their stalls with. 

My Py is a bloody awful name too. My Pie, no problem. My Py is just weird - you can't even guess that the product is to do with food from that.


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

It was far too blue, but lokoed okay.  Clearly based un the Union Flag/BA livery. And MyPy's okay, better than Caraca's.  All in all a bloody good job for 48 hours


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

I agree. I just think he's better at inventing than  branding. I didn't think it would be such a controversial point.


----------



## Me76 (Jul 14, 2011)

It's the first one for ages where I don;t have a clue who is going to win and don't have a massive favourite.  I really like them all and will be happy for any to win.  Although Susan is probably my least favourite if you had to push me.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

You fell for Jim too?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 14, 2011)

Big Gunz said:


> No chance, Susan will win it.  Tom's business acumen is questionable, he blunders his way through the tasks.  And everything is with hindsight with him.  Hindsight is no bloody good if you just ballsed up a massive business deal.
> 
> Susan has done it and although raw has the experience and talent to succeed


 
Its only been hindsight cause its a competition with everyone shouting each other down and trying to get their own ideas accepted (no matter how shit they might be). They would have told him his curved nail file idea was shit. Which he made a stack of money out of in real life with no idiots arguing with him constantly.

Taken out of that environment where he is the boss and there is no one to shout him down other than Lord Sugar... he'll shine.


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

ymu said:


> You fell for Jim too?


 
Jim, was funny last night 'I'm the whole package' - and then came up with four ways to say 'selling'



Gromit said:


> They would have told him his curved nail file idea was shit. Which he made a stack of money out of in real life



I thought he lost money on it.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> Jim, was funny last night 'I'm the whole package' - and then came up with four ways to say 'selling'


I got a bit turned off by his electing himself PM on the grounds that they were two little girls who needed some leadership, and took great pleasure in watching him belittle his team and fuck up because of it.

Maybe it's just me.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 14, 2011)

ymu said:


> I got a bit turned off by his electing himself PM on the grounds that they were two little girls who needed some leadership, and took great pleasure in watching him belittle his team and fuck up because of it.
> 
> Maybe it's just me.


 
I think the way that Helen and Tom just got on positively with it and got on with each other was an early indication that they might win. Jim's team was never that united.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

Jim is a horribly divisive character. Susie has seen through him already. Natasha hates Susie, so they needed managing carefully, and splitting up.

He would have made sure that his two favourites weren't on the same team though. Helen surely can't be in the final at risk of kicking Tom out? So, it ain't Helen (IMO). Jim and Natasha are both obviously hopeless. Jim might have won any other year, but not this one. So, it's Susan from that team.

Susan or Tom. Toss up.


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

Team?  There no teams any more


----------



## 8115 (Jul 14, 2011)

I thought it was really interesting that they said Natasha had really seemed to lose it in the end stages and she made that comment in the taxi about the competition being full of people who were prepared to backstab and scream and shout and she wasn't prepared to do that.  I think she would have been a much stronger contender, but the behaviour of other candidates got to her.  I reckon a lot of psychological warfare goes on in the house that you don't see.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 14, 2011)

ymu said:


> ...
> Susan or Tom. Toss up.


 
I fancy Tom, mainly because his business plan is likely to appeal to Sugar and that he has not done too badly in recent tasks. 

I honestly don't see what you like in Susan, my impression is that compared to Helen, Susan is a lightweight and some of the stuff that comes out of her mouth just beggars belief. 

If Susan does well on Sunday, or even wins it - I shall eat my Hat !!


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

8115 said:


> I thought it was really interesting that they said Natasha had really seemed to lose it in the end stages and she made that comment in the taxi about the competition being full of people who were prepared to backstab and scream and shout and she wasn't prepared to do that.  I think she would have been a much stronger contender, but the behaviour of other candidates got to her.  I reckon a lot of psychological warfare goes on in the house that you don't see.


 
eh? Natasha was a shouting backstabbing shithead herself, with a lack of self-insight that would put even Cacophony to shame


----------



## 8115 (Jul 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> eh? Natasha was a shouting backstabbing shithead herself, with a lack of self-insight that would put even Cacophony to shame


 
Nah.


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

Good argument


----------



## 8115 (Jul 14, 2011)

Thanks.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 14, 2011)

In the trailer for the interview / business plans task on Sunday one of the interviewers is shown saying to one of the candidates - this plan is full of mistakes!

Who do you think he was talking about? 

Helen 
Susan 
Tom 
Jim


----------



## 8115 (Jul 14, 2011)

Jim.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> Team?  There no teams any more


Did I say there were?


----------



## weltweit (Jul 14, 2011)

8115 said:


> Jim.


 
Yes, could be, his mental arithmatic certainly failed him in the fast food task.


----------



## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

ymu said:


> Did I say there were?


 
You certainly gave  that impression, yes.  With your frequent reference to 'teams'


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I fancy Tom, mainly because his business plan is likely to appeal to Sugar and that he has not done too badly in recent tasks.
> 
> I honestly don't see what you like in Susan, my impression is that compared to Helen, Susan is a lightweight and some of the stuff that comes out of her mouth just beggars belief.
> 
> If Susan does well on Sunday, or even wins it - I shall eat my Hat !!


 
I think Susan is a nightmare, but there is a lot to her and she'll learn to filter the thoughts.

Sugar likes her because she has supported her mother since she was 13, had to do all the paperwork for finances and rent, find her own school, etc because her mum spoke no English, paid off her mum's mortgage before she did anything else ... if it all stacks up, Sugar loves that sort of thing. And rightly so.

Plus, he would not have put Helen and Tom on the same team unless he was prepared to fire one of them. Therefore, Tom's main rival was in the other team. Jim is crap, so it's Susan.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 14, 2011)

No, Tom's crap.


----------



## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

Not for this job he isn't.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jul 14, 2011)

_"looking for a repair opportunity_" - Tasha last night 

Helen to win


----------



## weltweit (Jul 14, 2011)

ymu said:


> I think Susan is a nightmare, but there is a lot to her and she'll learn to filter the thoughts.
> 
> Sugar likes her because she has supported her mother since she was 13, had to do all the paperwork for finances and rent, find her own school, etc because her mum spoke no English, paid off her mum's mortgage before she did anything else ... if it all stacks up, Sugar loves that sort of thing. And rightly so.



I must have missed that bit, I didn't know that about Susan, yes Sugar will like that, rightly. 



ymu said:


> Plus, he would not have put Helen and Tom on the same team unless he was prepared to fire one of them. Therefore, Tom's main rival was in the other team. Jim is crap, so it's Susan.


 
It did strike me that if Helen/Tom had lost the task he would have had to fire one of them and that did surprise me as I thought they were the favourites. 

I see your thinking, it is an interesting way to look at it.


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## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

ymu said:


> I think Susan is a nightmare, but there is a lot to her and she'll learn to filter the thoughts.
> 
> Sugar likes her because she has supported her mother since she was 13, had to do all the paperwork for finances and rent, find her own school, etc because her mum spoke no English, paid off her mum's mortgage before she did anything else ... if it all stacks up, Sugar loves that sort of thing. And rightly so.
> 
> Plus, he would not have put Helen and Tom on the same team unless he was prepared to fire one of them. Therefore, Tom's main rival was in the other team. Jim is crap, so it's Susan.


 
naah, the teams were irrelevant. Natasha could done a brilliant job all on her own, created the best fast food business in the world, and she'd still have been fired.

Who wins on sunday depends solely upon the business plan. Everything that has gone before is now irrelevant


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## Bonfirelight (Jul 14, 2011)

Face it, sugar doesn't actually care. It's all about the programme, and once it's over he'll pretty much hang them out to dry unless one of their ideas is truly great - which I doubt very much given the candidates.
He probably has no end of people in his organisations and applicants every day who piss on this lot.

He'll just hand over the money (which won't really come from his pocket anyway) and let them have a go. They wont be his business partner in 2 years time whoever he picks.

The winner will be whoever makes the best telly, so probably susie or tom because it would be the best story, but it's all much a muchness. For me, if it was a straight up job application I'd hire jim or Helen because they might get something done, but neither would ever win employee of the month.


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## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

Bonfirelight said:


> Face it, sugar doesn't actually care.


 
Yes he does. About money.


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## Bonfirelight (Jul 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> Yes he does. About money.


 
Of course. He's made good money out of this programme, raised his profile to the point where he's seen as some sort of business guru and gets to have a relatively risk free punt at running with one of their ideas. But I suspect he fully expects them to fail whoever he picks and is prepared to take that hit given how much the show has benefitted him in other ways.

I doubt any of their ideas are gonna make him a fortune and it's in his better interest to make an entertaining show so he can do another series next year.


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## ymu (Jul 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> naah, the teams were irrelevant. Natasha could done a brilliant job all on her own, created the best fast food business in the world, and she'd still have been fired.
> 
> Who wins on sunday depends solely upon the business plan. Everything that has gone before is now irrelevant


Sugar never breaks his own rules. He does jiggle teams to make sure that they both have someone he'd like to fire on them. Especially near the end, for obvious reasons.


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## paulhackett (Jul 14, 2011)

A brief 'where are they now?' nostalgia fest in the Torygraph today.. can't believe anyone would have missed it, but just in case..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...619027/The-Apprentice-where-are-they-now.html

Ah.. Tre..


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## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

ymu said:


> Sugar never breaks his own rules. He does jiggle teams to make sure that they both have someone he'd like to fire on them. Especially near the end, for obvious reasons.


 
c'mon, the fine last week was a blatant attempt to get rid of her


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## Bonfirelight (Jul 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> c'mon, the fine last week was a blatant attempt to get rid of her


 
If he wanted to get rid of her last week then surely he'd have fined her the extra 100 quid or whatever it was? He just decided it was a good time to fire melody and saved Natasha for this week.


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## belboid (Jul 14, 2011)

bollocks


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## Bonfirelight (Jul 14, 2011)

Good argument


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## ymu (Jul 15, 2011)

belboid said:


> c'mon, the fine last week was a blatant attempt to get rid of her


 
Exactly. And having set the fine £50 too low, he stuck by it. He didn't even secretly cheat and ask for the result before setting the size of the fine (AFAWCT)

He would not sack someone from the winning team instead of the losing one. Especially when he can and does engineer the teams so that he'd never need to.


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## belboid (Jul 15, 2011)

So, he tried to heat last week, but it didnt come off.  This week he could eawsily have told everyone to make sure Caraca's lost. Not that he needed to given the godawful hash of it they made, but.....

Natasha was going to go no matter what.  Simple as.


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## kabbes (Jul 15, 2011)

I thought the fine was a clear attempt to inject a bit of excitement into the result; they already knew who had won and set a fine that sounded good but didn't affect the result.

And I thought he put Tom and Helen together as a team because (a) we could all be pretty certain that Tom and Helen would win (come on -- Natasha, Susie and Jim together in a team about tight business plans, tight organisation and branding?  As if) and (b) simply put, he was prepared to fire one of them because _he already knows who the winner is giong to be_ so who cares who the other three are in the final with that person?


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## maldwyn (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm hoping Susans wins.

The Poke autotune The Apprentice
[video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hUSCkeL35wM&feature=player_embedded[/video]


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## pianissimo (Jul 15, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I must have missed that bit, I didn't know that about Susan, yes Sugar will like that, rightly.


 
Yea, Susan has done a lot for her age - moved to Australia from Shanghai with her single mother when they both didn't speak english. Left and moved to UK and did all that stuff for her mom.

She has the drive and it was she to point out and made a plan the second day to help Jim to run the kitchen.
Jim is full of shit.  
I hope Susan win.  Sugar may like her link to China where she can speak Mandarin.

Go Susan!


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## 100% masahiko (Jul 16, 2011)

...funny, cos I read she was Singaporean but it is in the official BBC site that's she's from the mainland.

The thing is, since Sugar sold Amstrad he runs a consultancy that include Mandarin speakers. I really don't see how she can be of benefit unless her business proposal is shit hot.

Sunday's episode is going to be fun. Sith Lord Jim's bullshit will be unravelled...


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## Augie March (Jul 16, 2011)

paulhackett said:


> A brief 'where are they now?' nostalgia fest in the Torygraph today.. can't believe anyone would have missed it, but just in case..
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/...619027/The-Apprentice-where-are-they-now.html





> Saira Khan (series 1)
> 
> She’s also pretty *tough* – when her cousin came to visit from Pakistan and did a runner she promptly reported him to immigration.



Tough? Or cowardly grassing on your own family members?


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## big eejit (Jul 17, 2011)

Final tonight. It's in the bag intit. Everyone saying Tom to win, which presumably means he has.


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## isvicthere? (Jul 17, 2011)

Bit late onto thread, but Wednesday's show was a true comedy of errors:-

Jim's "arithmetic" 7x60=4800

Susan to Natasha, "A lot of Mexican things begin with 'el'. What does it mean?" Natasha: "Dunno."

In Mexico, apparently, they speak "Mexican".

Columbus was "British"!

And why did Caracas, having mysteriously moved northwards, sprout an apostrophe?

RIP what used to be called basic general knowledge.


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## isvicthere? (Jul 17, 2011)

100% masahiko said:


> Susan was brought up in this country. I don't even think she can read or write Chinese.
> And cos she's Singaporean, if she did speak Chinese it'll more likely be Cantonese or Hakka/ Hokkien and not Mandarin.
> And culturally, Mainland Chinese will have see her the same as Tom, Helen or Jim. She is alien to them.
> 
> ...



On the show when they went into the final five's life stories, they said she was born in Shanghai, where she lived until she was seven. Her mother then took her to Australia from 7 to 12, and since then she's lived in the UK.  

(Haven't read full thread, so apologies if this has already been said).


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## isvicthere? (Jul 17, 2011)

Gromit said:


> If this was an ordinary apprentice where Alan is looking for someone to run one of his divisions then Helen would be the perfect candidate. It's not though. I can see her business plan being a money spinning winner.
> 
> Sue. Cosmetics is a competitive market. She's made it small scale. Can she make it big upscaling her biz with Lord Sugar. I can't see it.
> 
> ...



^^^^this.


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## weltweit (Jul 17, 2011)

I also am going for Tom for the win... 

Unless his business plan lets him down..


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## smmudge (Jul 17, 2011)

I think Alan Sugar will say they are all winners in their own special way, then give them 5 million pounds each for being such good sports, and it doesn't matter if they don't make any money out of it as long as they have fun and learn something from the experience.


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## wayward bob (Jul 17, 2011)

susan will win.


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## belboid (Jul 17, 2011)

Following the principles of Derren Brownian Logic.... it's Jim


On last weeks You're Fired, everyone proposed a potential winner...No one chooses Jim, and Dara fails top point this out (unlike on the previous week)

Trailer for tonights ep finishes with Jim being genuinely funny, and seemingly charming.

The (previously mentioned) lack of website for Jim.

Everything is pushing us towards it not being Jim, therefore it is.


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## DexterTCN (Jul 17, 2011)

I can't see jedi jim having any viable plans though - he's all about empathy, hard work, communication.

Not innovation.

I'm going with Tom....however the interviews will be crushing for all of them most likely.


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## Augie March (Jul 17, 2011)

I see Mr ISP is not doing the interviews this year...


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## binka (Jul 17, 2011)

disapointed that tom's business plan is so boring. jim is a massive tit isnt he?


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## DexterTCN (Jul 17, 2011)

Helen's business idea...everyone gets a secretary.


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## DexterTCN (Jul 17, 2011)

binka said:


> disapointed that tom's business plan is so boring. jim is a massive tit isnt he?


 It does what it says on the tin


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## binka (Jul 17, 2011)

helens business plan is a load of balls as well


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## TruXta (Jul 17, 2011)

Jim is a hollow shell of a human being.


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## binka (Jul 17, 2011)

amsmart? not sure how that is a business. why would schools pay for that?


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## DexterTCN (Jul 17, 2011)

Helen's no chance.


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## binka (Jul 17, 2011)

all these plans are absolute shite apart from susan's


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## DexterTCN (Jul 17, 2011)

Tom...you're a really nice guy...my wife's a nice guy...I fuck her every week...guess what I'm about to do to you


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## TruXta (Jul 17, 2011)

binka said:


> all these plans are absolute shite apart from susan's


 
Hers is merely dire.


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## binka (Jul 17, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Hers is merely dire.


 
its not that bad. at least its something she has experience with rather than that elearning / call the detist for me bollocks


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## belboid (Jul 17, 2011)

Jims is probly the best, imo. Wank, but plausible.  Helens clearly the worst


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## binka (Jul 17, 2011)

belboid said:


> Jims is probly the best, imo. Wank, but plausible.  Helens clearly the worst


 
why would schools spend money on it?


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## DexterTCN (Jul 17, 2011)

Susan or tom then.

Tom?


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## Augie March (Jul 17, 2011)

Tom should win for the fact that he is wearing yellow socks.


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## TruXta (Jul 17, 2011)

binka said:


> its not that bad. at least its something she has experience with rather than that elearning / call the detist for me bollocks


 
Fair nuff, she's just so naive tho.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jul 17, 2011)

Susan's unguent has now had enormous tv exposure. It's a Levi Roots opportunity for Sugar and fairly low risk. All the other ideas are dumb, as well.


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## dirtyfruit (Jul 17, 2011)

Susan ftw!


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## smmudge (Jul 17, 2011)

Helen and Tom have the same nose. It's kinda weird.


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## TruXta (Jul 17, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Susan's unguent has now had enormous tv exposure. It's a Levi Roots opportunity for Sugar and fairly low risk. All the other ideas are dumb, as well.


 


dirtyfruit said:


> Susan ftw!


 
My feeling too. She's got a product, she's entrepreneurial, she's basically honest.


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## magneze (Jul 17, 2011)

Susan I reckon.


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## TruXta (Jul 17, 2011)

Tom and Suse last two standing?


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## magneze (Jul 17, 2011)

magneze said:


> Susan I reckon.


 
Oops


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## TruXta (Jul 17, 2011)

NO SUSAN


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## Ranu (Jul 17, 2011)

it's Tom.


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## strung out (Jul 17, 2011)

'i understand that i don't understand' - susan's socrates moment?


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## dirtyfruit (Jul 17, 2011)

Posh boy does good!


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## magneze (Jul 17, 2011)

Tom and Helen in joint win?


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## Augie March (Jul 17, 2011)

Hang on what, a 2nd business plan?


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## magneze (Jul 17, 2011)

Nah. Helen, just talked herself out of it.


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## TruXta (Jul 17, 2011)

Bizarre Helen.


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## TruXta (Jul 17, 2011)

Go posho!


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## strung out (Jul 17, 2011)

i'd just like to remind people i said this 4 weeks ago 



strung out said:


> i honestly think tom will win. he's got a history in product design and inventing, he's run his own business and brought a product to market, he's intelligent and analytical, he's easy enough to work with for siralan that there won't be any problems personality-wise. my guess is that the final task will be pitching their actual business ideas either to sugar or a team of pros he's assembled.


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## dirtyfruit (Jul 17, 2011)

magneze said:


> Tom and Helen in joint win?


 
That would've made good sense and I was thinking so since the fast food episode.


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## Dovydaitis (Jul 17, 2011)

YES!!! go Tom


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## belboid (Jul 17, 2011)

Specialistchairs for people with back problems are around £600, if he can get them in a bit cheaper than that, it has legs. That consultation shit is a right load of toss tho


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## DexterTCN (Jul 17, 2011)

belboid said:


> Specialistchairs for people with back problems are around £600, if he can get them in a bit cheaper than that, it has legs.


No, I saw the design..it has wheels.


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## big eejit (Jul 17, 2011)

All their business ideas were terrible. I have better ideas than that.

Tom got the gig on the basis of potential for other things. Can't see Sugar going anywhere near those chairs.


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## Hellsbells (Jul 17, 2011)

I loved the totally bizarre Ant & Dec lookalikes on the interview/judging panel


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## 100% masahiko (Jul 17, 2011)

My parents have hijacked the TV...
So Tom won with chairs? He likes the health care industry don't he?


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## clicker (Jul 18, 2011)

....and Susan has also been offered a job by siralan....he likes the 'synergy' of her healthcare and Tom's nail file....clever siralan....


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## Gromit (Jul 18, 2011)

big eejit said:


> All their business ideas were terrible. I have better ideas than that.
> 
> Tom got the gig on the basis of potential for other things. Can't see Sugar going anywhere near those chairs.


 
Correct. He's basically seen that there is unexploited mileage left in his nail file product and wishes to squeeze that dry.


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## pianissimo (Jul 18, 2011)

Yay Tom wins.

Helen was so desperate.  That wasn't her second business plan.  She was asked in the interview on that but was speechless about it.  In the boardroom when they mentioned why not bakery then she quickly grabbed it to her own and said that's her second business plan.  I knew she never got the chance.  She's just an organiser.

Yay for Susan too, that Sugar offers a deal with her.


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jul 18, 2011)

I felt sorry for Helen, she clearly doesn't want to work with baked goods anymore, she wants her own business and to use the skills she already has. Her business plan was rubbish though, there is not mass market for lifestyle PAs but she could get into that if she was shown the right door to knock on.

It's a bit of a rip off for Sugar to say he's taking on Tom's old business, he was supposed to start the new business. I WANT TO SEE THE CHAIRS


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## ShiftyBagLady (Jul 18, 2011)

Oh and I realised tonight that Tom reminds me of Mr Bean


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## Stoat Boy (Jul 18, 2011)

Its all an utter farce really. Tom was the worst performing person in the final over the whole show, his business plan figures do not add up and he is just plain daft. He cannot run his own business if his life depended on him and it is obviously a stitch up. He was picked as the winner before the show even got underway. If it was based on the tasks he would have gone ages ago.


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## Paul Russell (Jul 18, 2011)

Yes, I know it's always been about entertainment, but this series seemed a bit of a waste of time. Presumably, they all had her business plans sketched out before the tasks began?.... (only seen a few episodes from this series.) Helen could have been sacked before the tasks began. Even though she was excellent at most tasks, it was pointless for her.


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## paulhackett (Jul 18, 2011)

Someone said it has all gone a bit Dragons Den.. one long episode, where the tasks were irrelevant to the outcome. The format as was/is doesn't really work for finding a business partner, although assuming Helen could have shown some imagination, she still could have won. Surely someone like Glenn would have been a better bet than Jim in the last 4?


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## 100% masahiko (Jul 18, 2011)

^^ True dat.

I not seen the show but I think we all predicted Tom to win cos of the business plan only. The formula to this show kinda sucks don't it? 12+ weeks of panto when the decision was probably made in week 1.

Remember Al is a management consultant since selling his business to Sky. With a bit of guidance, I'm sure Tom will succeed.
Kinda glad that Susie 'it's so unfair' lost in grace - she was severely bullied by uglier hams throughout the show.


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## Maurice Picarda (Jul 18, 2011)

Hellsbells said:


> I loved the totally bizarre Ant & Dec lookalikes on the interview/judging panel


 
Was amazed that Soutar got five minutes to plug his crappy magazines in the Hip Replacement ep  (and by the way, Mike, you misuse the term "freemium", which properly means a blend of free and paid content) but the idea that he is an impartial expert on business plans is laughable beyond belief.


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## Ms T (Jul 18, 2011)

Yay!  A victory for the nice guy.  I loved the bit they showed in the second bit of the show where he said the right way to behave was to put your hand up and wait to be asked to speak.


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