# Doctor Who is on tonight!



## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

So what can we expect? hats? 

The new dimply companion dying again sort of?


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## spring-peeper (Mar 30, 2013)

For real???  You guys get the new doctor tonight???

Awesome - us too.

Usually, we get to see the show weeks after you guys and I have to ignore the threads until I get to see it.


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## 8115 (Mar 30, 2013)

Wobbly sets, lots of cod-shakespearean dialogue and some funny aliens.  Possible the weeping angels.

Matt Smith looking increasingly unsure about things.  The new companion has something freudian going on.

HTH


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## Santino (Mar 30, 2013)

Can someone remind me where Matt Smith went to school?


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## RedDragon (Mar 30, 2013)

Santino said:


> Can someone remind me where Matt Smith went to school?


Northampton


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## bi0boy (Mar 30, 2013)

Ok I haven't seen this since Sylvester McCoy. Is it still watchable now as in it carries on in the same fashion, or has it become all silly?


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## RedDragon (Mar 30, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Ok I haven't seen this since Sylvester McCoy. Is it still watchable now as in it carries on in the same fashion, or has it become all silly?


Still silly but with a larger budget - very few concession to an adult audience. I'll probably catch on iPlayer on monday.


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## 8115 (Mar 30, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Ok I haven't seen this since Sylvester McCoy. Is it still watchable now as in it carries on in the same fashion, or has it become all silly?


 
You're worried it's become sillier than Sylvester McCoy?  I think you're safe there.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Ok I haven't seen this since Sylvester McCoy. Is it still watchable now as in it carries on in the same fashion, or* has it become all silly?*


 
no no, it still involves a near omnipotent time travelling alien whose means of conveyance is a police box that is its own pocket universe.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

Santino said:


> Can someone remind me where Matt Smith went to school?


 

no idea blad


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 30, 2013)

bi0boy said:


> Ok I haven't seen this since Sylvester McCoy. Is it still watchable now as in it carries on in the same fashion, or has it become all silly?



That's very difficult to believe. It's been BBC1's flagship show for the best part of ten years and is repeated constantly. Avoiding it completely would require an obsessive level of precautionary vigilance, perhaps to the extent of not owning a television.


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 30, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> So what can we expect? hats?
> 
> The new dimply companion dying again sort of?



Celia Imrie is what we can expect. My enthusiasm is beginning to wane, and I was so excited about Moffat taking over.


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## joustmaster (Mar 30, 2013)

I'm hoping for a darker and more gritty series.
The doctor constantly banging crystal meth, and getting more paranoid. Fucking has way through a load of new assistants, including a worryingly young looking male one. 
There should be a Barrymore style pool party episode.
The series will end with the death of the doctor, as he messes up a strangle wank.


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## Nine Bob Note (Mar 30, 2013)

I've been cataloguing my Who toy collection for the past three days, so my I'm gonna have to force myself to watch it


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 30, 2013)

I don't like that new girl.


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 30, 2013)

What's new? Wisecracking and flirty - only the face has changed.


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 30, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> What's new? Wisecracking and flirty - only the face has changed.


 
That's what I don't like, it's the same character transplanted into a new, less-good-at-acting body.


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## spanglechick (Mar 30, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> That's what I don't like, it's the same character transplanted into a new, less-good-at-acting body.


less good at acting than karen gillan???

that only leaves Freema. Like out of all the actors in the history of the world.


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 30, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> less good at acting than karen gillan???
> 
> that only leaves Freema. Like out of all the actors in the history of the world.


 
Gillan wasn't _that_ bad.


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## spanglechick (Mar 30, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> Gillan wasn't _that_ bad.


no, no - she really was.  if you didn't fancy her this was obvious.


rory was ace, though.


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## 8115 (Mar 30, 2013)

Gillian was amazing. I totally wanted to be her, which is basically the point of the companian.


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 30, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> no, no - she really was. if you didn't fancy her this was obvious.
> 
> 
> rory was ace, though.


 
I fancied Freema Agyeman way more and I could still tell that she couldn't act.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> no, no - she really was. if you didn't fancy her this was obvious.
> 
> 
> rory was ace, though.


 
rory got the cracking lines 'Shut up hitler!' 

gillian was ok tho, but moll flanders was quality. over egged it sometimes but then they all do.

was recalling tennants super the other day and realising that he is a markedly better actor than matt smith. Can you imagine matt smith doing a solid hamlet? just, no


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 30, 2013)

There is new Dr Who tonight?
What time? SHit I bet I am out.


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## spanglechick (Mar 30, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> rory got the cracking lines 'Shut up hitler!'
> 
> gillian was ok tho, but moll flanders was quality. over egged it sometimes but then they all do.
> 
> was recalling tennants super the other day and realising that he is a markedly better actor than matt smith. Can you imagine matt smith doing a solid hamlet? just, no


god, absolutely.  they lucked out getting tennant to do it for so long.  one of the finest actors of his generation, by any benchmark.   they've had some astounding talent in new who, just very little in the assistant role.


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## dessiato (Mar 30, 2013)

Going to watch this. I've waited a very long time to see new Who.


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## joustmaster (Mar 30, 2013)

dessiato said:


> Going to watch this. I've waited a very long time to see new Who.


Longer than since Christmas?


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 30, 2013)

What time? Does it go straight onto iplayer when it is over?


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## Leafster (Mar 30, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What time? Does it go straight onto iplayer when it is over?


Does it really matter? You're not going to like it anyway!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 30, 2013)

Leafster said:


> Does it really matter? You're not going to like it anyway!


 
But you will need my report on why as soon as humanly possible.
I have a terrible Dr Who love hate thingy.
I have a boat load of 'classic' who videos that are torture and bliss to watch. It's a strange thing.


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## Leafster (Mar 30, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> But you will need my report on why as soon as humanly possible.
> I have a terrible Dr Who love hate thingy.
> I have a boat load of 'classic' who videos that are torture and bliss to watch. It's a strange thing.


I have to admit that when I watch "classic" Who I don't find them compelling in the way I did when I originally saw them.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 30, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What time? Does it go straight onto iplayer when it is over?


 
If only there was some sort of interconnected network that could furnish you with that sort of information.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 30, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> If only there was some sort of interconnected network that could furnish you with that sort of information.


 
I know. I have tried asking but nobody replies.


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## spanglechick (Mar 30, 2013)

regarding iplayer. sometimes sit goes straight over, sometimes there can be a delay of a few hours.  there is no rhyme nor reason to this.


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 30, 2013)

It's a timey-wimey thing, Spangles.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 30, 2013)

8115 said:


> You're worried it's become sillier than Sylvester McCoy? I think you're safe there.


Although McCoys's first season was fairly shoddy i'm not sure if i can think of many new who episodes i'd rate as highly as  episodes like  curse of fenric and battlefield


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## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 30, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I know. I have tried asking but nobody replies.


 
It's on BBC (that's the British Broadcasting Corporation) One (The primary entertainment channel of the British Broadcasting Corporation) at 6:15 pm (that is GMT (Greenwich Mean Time (Also known as Co-ordinated Universal Time (UTC ))). The broadcast will last approximately 45 minutes (minutes are a unit of time)

The broadcast may or may not allow you to mention Japan.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 30, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> It's a timey-wimey thing, Spangles.


Yeah sometimes they need to reverse the polarity of the nutron flow


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## spanglechick (Mar 30, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> It's a timey-wimey thing, Spangles.


Oh, very good. *raises glass*


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## CNT36 (Mar 30, 2013)

In other news Dave and Bill are back for the 50th.


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## dessiato (Mar 30, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> Longer than since Christmas?


We didn't get the Xmas one here. So I've been waiting for almost a year, since I left Sudan.


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## Kuso (Mar 30, 2013)

that was a bit disappointing


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 30, 2013)

Moffat out.


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## Firky (Mar 30, 2013)

Well that was exactly what I expected.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

wait- was the Great Intelligence actually Richard E Grant there?


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

a very internet themed episode there. Didn't mention the Adult Context lock you get with dongles though


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 30, 2013)

This children's programme about a funny alien who likes jammy dodgers is getting ever so childish.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> In other news Dave and Bill are back for the 50th.


Davey T and Bill Hartnell?  I can see the former making it, but the latter... that would be. Unsavoury.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 30, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> wait- was the Great Intelligence actually Richard E Grant there?


Yes.  Dr Simeon.


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## spanglechick (Mar 30, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> wait- was the Great Intelligence actually Richard E Grant there?


yup - so it's related to the xmas episode which i can't remember.

anyway...  umm... i like all the design elements.  Loved the new jacket, new tardis interior, cool motorbike stuff.  She's less annoyingly Amy Pond / aggressive-flirty than i'd feared.

but the story was completely meh.


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## Wilf (Mar 30, 2013)

Painful attempt at using new tech and our supposed anxieties about them. There was one about tellies pinching people's souls in the 1950s (Ecclestone era maybe); cybermen doing the same with some kind of hands free sets.  Then there was satnavs killing people, tonight it's wifi.  What's next, a horsemeat episode?  Oh and if she says 'clever boy' once more (and she will)..


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

the story aint done though is it, this was a set up

new tardis inner is kewl and has eschewed the steampunk wank of previous


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## spanglechick (Mar 30, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> the story aint done though is it, this was a set up
> 
> new tardis inner is kewl and has eschewed the steampunk wank of previous


but even within an extended story arc, we need dramatic payoff within any given single episode.


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 30, 2013)

With the gag about the riots, and also the one about the Doctor Who exhibition in Earls Court, it felt as if it was written eighteen months or so ago, didn't really work at the time, and was dusted off as it suited the Great Intelligence arc.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> but even within an extended story arc, we need dramatic payoff within any given single episode.


 

oh true that, but I thought the payoff was when scary older lady was sat asking where mummy and daddy had gone. Mini payoff if you will.

Looking forward to the Swaziland Swordsman facing up against the be-fezed son of a shoemakers town

I do like new companion as well but so far she hasn't shown a remrkableness. Of course I just want all companions to wear a badged bomber jacket and throw explosives around but ce la vie


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## prunus (Mar 30, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> With the gag about the riots, and also the one about the Doctor Who exhibition in Earls Court, it felt as if it was written eighteen months or so ago, didn't really work at the time, and was dusted off as it suited the Great Intelligence arc.


 
I rather assumed the Earl's Court reference was to the fact that there is a police box there, not any exhibition.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 30, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Although McCoys's first season was fairly shoddy i'm not sure if i can think of many new who episodes i'd rate as highly as episodes like curse of fenric and battlefield


I really like his dalek one too, even though as a kid I hated and laughed at it.
He had some good ones. Rutabowa has his Dr who hat.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I really like his dalek one too, even though as a kid I hated and laughed at it.
> He had some good ones. *Rutabowa has his Dr who hat*.


 

he has a random white hat


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## redsquirrel (Mar 30, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> . one of the finest actors of his generation, by any benchmark.


What absolute utter bollocks. Waving your hands about and shouting is not good acting.

He's a mediocre actor who basically plays the same character in everything he's in. "one of the finest actors of his generation"  Jesus fucking christ.


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## Kuso (Mar 30, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> What absolute utter bollocks. Waving your hands about and shouting is not good acting.
> 
> He's a mediocre actor who basically plays the same character in everything he's in. "one of the finest actors of his generation"  Jesus fucking christ.


 
I have to disagree, tennant is a fantastic actor imo


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## redsquirrel (Mar 30, 2013)

In what? Give us a role that shows he's a fantastic actor (let alone "one of the finest actors of his generation" )

His doctor was basically the same character he played in Blackpool (where he was acted off screen by David Morrisey), and who also turns up in Glorious 39.


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## 8den (Mar 30, 2013)

Charlie Brooker (speaking about the dire US TV movie Doctor Who with Eric Roberts and Paul McGann) "The Doctor, racing around on a motorbike? Piss off".

Utter shite....


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## DexterTCN (Mar 30, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> In what? Give us a role that shows he's a fantastic actor (let alone "one of the finest actors of his generation" )
> 
> His doctor was basically the same character he played in Blackpool (where he was acted off screen by David Morrisey), and who also turns up in Glorious 39.


Romeo & Juliet (RSC)? Hamlet (RSC)? The Pillowman (RNT)? Richard III (RSC)?


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## redsquirrel (Mar 30, 2013)

None of those are films/TV are they? I admit I've never seen him on the stage so I've no idea whether he's a good or bad theatre actor.


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## Stigmata (Mar 30, 2013)

It wasn't terrible, nor was it a particularly memorable episode. The plot and resolution were clever enough but it needed more lols

And there really haven't been enough medieval stories in Nu Who, ie none. Victorians are boring


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## DexterTCN (Mar 30, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> None of those are films/TV are they? I admit I've never seen him on the stage so I've no idea whether he's a good or bad theatre actor.


No...they're not tv...they're proper acting jobs.


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## CNT36 (Mar 30, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Davey T and Bill Hartnell?  I can see the former making it, but the latter... that would be. Unsavoury.


Have you listened to any of the Davey T audio books? I've been told they sound eeriely alike. Doctor Who facebook said posted up a link saying Rose and Ten will be back.


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## spanglechick (Mar 30, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> None of those are films/TV are they? I admit I've never seen him on the stage so I've no idea whether he's a good or bad theatre actor.


there's a filmed version of his hamlet which has been broadcast on the telly.  

He's pplaying a fairly different character in Broadchurch at the moment, and there was a tv drama some years ago where he played a bereaved father that was very different.  

but yes, the finest actor tthing was largely going on his theatre output - which tends to be where thesps are judged, because it's much, much harder.

btw - i'd also rate rory kinnear in the 'finest actor of their generation' group  for his stage work (his recent hamlet at the national was astounding) but curiously, he hasn't really made much of an impression on the screen as yet.  see also toby stephens - loudly lauded after his Coriolanus in the mid nineties, but failed to set the screen alight and actually seems to be getting worse with age.    

redsquirrel - who of a similar age would you rate above tennant, out of interest?


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> None of those are films/TV are they? I* admit I've never seen him on the stage so I've no idea* whether he's a good or bad theatre actor.


 


zackly


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## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> Have you listened to any of the Davey T audio books? I've been told they sound eeriely alike.* Doctor Who facebook said posted up a link saying Rose and Ten will be back.*


 

well its the 60th year near enough so every chance they will do a three doctors special like from back in the day


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## 8den (Mar 30, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> well its the 60th year near enough so every chance they will do a three doctors special like from back in the day


 
Nah. Eccles isn't interested and the rest are too old. For the 50th Anniversary we will find Ten inch and Piper.


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## RedDragon (Mar 30, 2013)

London was tonight's star.


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## redsquirrel (Mar 30, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> redsquirrel - who of a similar age would you rate above tennant, out of interest?


Male british actors, screen performances - Christopher Eccleston, Mark Strong, David Morrisey, Daniel Craig, Toby Stephens, Paddy Considine, Steven Mackintosh


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## DexterTCN (Mar 31, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> well its the 60th year near enough so every chance they will do a three doctors special like from back in the day


50th innit?


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## DotCommunist (Mar 31, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> London was tonight's star.


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## spanglechick (Mar 31, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> Male british actors, screen performances - Christopher Eccleston, Mark Strong, David Morrisey, Daniel Craig, Toby Stephens, Paddy Considine, Steven Mackintosh


several of those are (Morrisey, Eccleston, Strong) significantly older!  tennant's only 41, i think.

but I'll certainly give you Considine, and Stephens I already mentioned. I'd also stick in John Simm, and Rory Kinnear as I said.  Daniel Craig's ok, but i've never seen him do anything very challenging. ecclestone's great but much older (nearly 50) as is strong, who i've not actually seen in much beyond bit parts.  Morrisey is also nearly 50... and good...  though on balance i'd put him in a category below tennant, acting skill-wise.  their shared episode bears evidence of that, i think.


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## redsquirrel (Mar 31, 2013)

OK, I think you put a shorter time period on a generation than I do. I wouldn't call eight/nine years _significantly_ older.


ETA: Paul Bettany is another one I rate.


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## ginger_syn (Mar 31, 2013)

I've managed to avoid any major spoilers for this time round so enjoyed the show a lot. It was a simple introduction episode and I'm looking forward to the rest of the series.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 31, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> Have you listened to any of the Davey T audio books? I've been told they sound eeriely alike.


I haven't, no.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 31, 2013)

I am one minute it and already I hate it.  Souls? Internets? Ugh.


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## CNT36 (Mar 31, 2013)

Souls trump life energy everytime.


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## CNT36 (Mar 31, 2013)

Souls trump life energy everytime.


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## CNT36 (Mar 31, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I haven't, no.


 For some odd reason I thought you were talking about Patrick Troughtons son David. I'm a special kind of thick.


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## joustmaster (Mar 31, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I am one minute it and already I hate it. Souls? Internets? Ugh.


Just wait till the cunt is on a motorbike


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 31, 2013)

Ugh. Terrible. 
I liked a couple of things about it though.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 31, 2013)

8den said:


> Nah. Eccles isn't interested and the rest are too old. For the 50th Anniversary we will find Ten inch and Piper.


 
He actually said that he didn't want to leave at the end of the first series. 
I think he was pretty good, a proper actor for a proper reboot. Shame the stories were not up to it.


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## captainmission (Mar 31, 2013)

I wish Moffat would stop writing dialogue because he thinks it sounds cool inspite of it not making any sense. When riding a motorbike "I don't take the tardis into battle because it's really powerful and I don't want it falling into enemy hands". Apart from he does this single episode bar this one.


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## Maurice Picarda (Mar 31, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> He actually said that he didn't want to leave at the end of the first series.
> I think he was pretty good, a proper actor for a proper reboot. Shame the stories were not up to it.



There were some excellent 9th Doctor stories. However irked one is with Moffat now, the Empty Child is unarguably great.


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## 8den (Mar 31, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> He actually said that he didn't want to leave at the end of the first series.
> I think he was pretty good, a proper actor for a proper reboot. Shame the stories were not up to it.


 
Oh don't get me wrong I thought Eccles was an amazing doctor, and perfect for the reboot. Both himself and Piper disliked at least one of the directors during the shooting of the 1st series. And he had major issues with Davis (in particular he hated some of the cheesier dialogue). I'm not sure it was entirely his decision to leave at the end of the series, and Tennant and Davis had a previous working relationship from Cassanova.


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## Stigmata (Mar 31, 2013)

8den said:


> Oh don't get me wrong I thought Eccles was an amazing doctor, and perfect for the reboot. Both himself and Piper disliked at least one of the directors during the shooting of the 1st series. And he had major issues with Davis (in particular he hated some of the cheesier dialogue). I'm not sure it was entirely his decision to leave at the end of the series, and Tennant and Davis had a previous working relationship from Cassanova.


 
Eccleston and Davies had also worked together previously though, on that one-off drama about the Second Coming


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## emanymton (Mar 31, 2013)

Ok so how did the Doctor know they were in the Shard?


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## Leafster (Mar 31, 2013)

emanymton said:


> Ok so how did the Doctor know they were in the Shard?


I'm guessing he must have looked at the Clara's Netbook after she hacked into their systems, took photos of the staff with their webcams, used photo-recognition software to match them against their facebook profiles then checked where they said they worked.


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## 8den (Mar 31, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Eccleston and Davies had also worked together previously though, on that one-off drama about the Second Coming


 
I know. People can have a falling out. Eccleston said he couldn't cope with the bullshit and the politics on the Doctor Who. 

The fall out must have been pretty bloody. I mean even Colin Baker comes back (and man was he screwed). Mind you Eccleston has a decent career after Doctor Who, and strikes me as a principled actor.


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## 8den (Mar 31, 2013)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...cleston-claims-he-was-doctor-who-201006152814


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 31, 2013)

I've found that if you just get really stoned before you watch doctor who, then it's great.


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 31, 2013)

emanymton said:


> Ok so how did the Doctor know they were in the Shard?


 
Clara pointed at the shard and said, 'they're in the shard, floor 65'.

Also the director had been chekov-gunning the shard already for most of the episode. Maybe the doctor picked up on that.


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## Leafster (Mar 31, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> *Clara pointed at the shard and said, 'they're in the shard, floor 65'.*
> 
> Also the director had been chekov-gunning the shard already for most of the episode. Maybe the doctor picked up on that.


Clara said that to the Mobile Uploader thing.


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## 8den (Mar 31, 2013)

Leafster said:


> Clara said that to the Mobile Uploader thing.


 

Pointing out plot flaws of that kind of basic level means you're unlikely to ever enjoy who.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 31, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've found that i*f you just get really stoned before you watch doctor who, then it's great.*


 

or apparently, before you write it...


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## Leafster (Mar 31, 2013)

8den said:


> Pointing out plot flaws of that kind of basic level means you're unlikely to ever enjoy who.


I did mention earlier that I took a leap of faith and assumed that the real Doctor looked at Clara's Netbook to work it out.


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## DexterTCN (Mar 31, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Eccleston and Davies had also worked together previously though, on that one-off drama about the Second Coming


Although an atheist I quite enjoyed that.   Dark.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 31, 2013)

Episode was a bit meh.

New companion however, is rather fit


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 31, 2013)

The script was just about hanging together until that last bit about, 'it's not a leaf, it's page one'. Why do they have to keep putting one horribly cheesy line at the end of every episode?


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## Leafster (Mar 31, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> The script was just about hanging together until that last bit about, 'it's not a leaf, it's page one'. Why do they have to keep putting one horribly cheesy line at the end of every episode?


 



*Doctor Who Official*
@bbcdoctorwho
So, now you’ve had chance to think about it, what do you think is so important about the leaf? Share your thoughts! #theleaf

12:04 PM - 31 Mar 13 

​


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## Stigmata (Mar 31, 2013)

Leafster said:


> Clara said that to the Mobile Uploader thing.


 
Which the Doctor then hacked into. And as others have said he also had Clara's computer to hand.


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## Leafster (Mar 31, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Which the Doctor then hacked into. And as *others* have said he also had Clara's computer to hand.


I'll accept the point that the Doctor could have got the info by hacking into the "Spoon" but the "others" you mentioned were, erm, me!


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## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 31, 2013)

That was an OK episode.

and having the great inteligence around  is amusingly retro.   

I kinda wish it wasn't the wifi  but  people disapearing on the tube  just for old times sake  but   whatever


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## 8den (Mar 31, 2013)

Also isn't it just that David Tennant episode from the 50s with the TV eating people's faces all over again?

The Idiot's Lantern.


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## spanglechick (Mar 31, 2013)

8den said:


> Also isn't it just that David Tennant episode from the 50s with the TV eating people's faces all over again?
> 
> The Idiot's Lantern.


that one was much scarier, too.


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## redsquirrel (Mar 31, 2013)

emanymton said:


> Ok so how did the Doctor know they were in the Shard?


I can accept that he got that after he hacked the base unit. What was utterly implausible is that a british 24 year old was not supposed to know what twitter is.


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## T & P (Apr 1, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Episode was a bit meh.
> 
> New companion however, is rather fit


I bet she has lovely feet.

*goes to check on Wikifeet*


----------



## Pingu (Apr 1, 2013)

thought that was ok.

main thing I find with any dr who episode is to try to not to think about stuff too much and take it as you find it


----------



## kittyP (Apr 1, 2013)

They've changed the theme music again. 
I don't like it. It's not anywhere near as evocative or dramatic


----------



## Frances Lengel (Apr 1, 2013)

Kids programme - And a shit one at that, fuck knows why people wank over it. The crinoid episode was good when it was Tom Baker, you can't whack a shit monster but these modern ones? Nah.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 1, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Kids programme - And a shit one at that, fuck knows why people wank over it. The crinoid episode was good when it was Tom Baker,* you can't whack a shit monster* but these modern ones? Nah.


 

and yet you go through a great many kleenex etc


----------



## BoxRoom (Apr 1, 2013)

kittyP said:


> They've changed the theme music again.
> I don't like it. It's not anywhere near as evocative or dramatic


 
Was watching some 5th Doctor DVD the other day and my girlfriend came in and said that even though that wasn't her era of Who the theme was the flippin' business. It gave her more of an atmosphere, or something, of the show rather than this current rumpiddlypumdiddlypumWOAAARRR! bollocks.


----------



## kittyP (Apr 1, 2013)

BoxRoom said:


> Was watching some 5th Doctor DVD the other day and my girlfriend came in and said that even though that wasn't her era of Who the theme was the flippin' business. It gave her more of an atmosphere, or something, of the show rather than this current rumpiddlypumdiddlypumWOAAARRR! bollocks.


 
Of course nothing will compare to the Delia original but even the last series (or the one before, I forget it's been re=showed all over the place on the iplayer) was OK, this is really lackluster.


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 1, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Kids programme - And a shit one at that, fuck knows why people wank over it. The crinoid episode was good when it was Tom Baker, you can't whack a shit monster but these modern ones? Nah.


In your opinion.                               

In mine it's a family show that I've loved since I was child and that I enjoy watching with my son and granddaughter.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> Although an atheist I quite enjoyed that. Dark.


 
Yes me too.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> I can accept that he got that after he hacked the base unit. What was utterly implausible is that a british 24 year old was not supposed to know what twitter is.





Frances Lengel said:


> Kids programme - And a shit one at that, fuck knows why people wank over it. The crinoid episode was good when it was Tom Baker, you can't whack a shit monster but these modern ones? Nah.


 
Yes, but todays episode really felt like it more so than before. It was far more Sarah Jane adventures than Dr Who.
As a kid Dr who stood out a mile from other kids tv, the scheduling also highlighted this.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2013)

redsquirrel said:
			
		

> What was utterly implausible is that a british 24 year old was not supposed to know what twitter is.


That's a Clue, though. Along with the Doctor calling her profession or her behaviour "Victorian" on a number of occasions. 

We're supposed to remember previous and future incarnations of her.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 1, 2013)

John Hurt is in the Anniversary episode


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2013)

Why does every new assistant have to be an important part of the universe these days.
I want one from a different planet or time. Bah, it's really boring but could be so cool.


----------



## thriller (Apr 1, 2013)

AverageJoe said:


> John Hurt is in the Anniversary episode


 
His head looks photoshoped


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 1, 2013)

hints of valeyard


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 1, 2013)

thriller said:


> His head looks photoshoped


 
Always has.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 1, 2013)

Leafster said:


> *Doctor Who Official*
> @bbcdoctorwho
> So, now you’ve had chance to think about it, what do you think is so important about the leaf? Share your thoughts! #theleaf
> 
> ...


 
I reckon it's from the graveyard where she's buried. The other her. I reckon she knows more than she's telling.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 1, 2013)

Anyway, yeah, I'd say her acting is more or less on a par with Gillan. You can tell they are acting. Badly. That's the problem. She's not completely identikit Amy, but not far off. Sassy gets boring after a while, when it's the same kind of sassy over and over again, and when there's constantly that pathetic, faux sexual tension (snog box, really? fuck off). And I'm totally with Atomic Suplex here - why the fuck does the companion always have to be the whole plot these days? Why can't they just be a companion, who is important because they help the doctor, and maybe has some episodes that feature stuff that happens to them, and maybe does some important stuff, but isn't the whole raison d'etre for the whole fucking series? The show isn't about the doctor anymore, it's about the companions, and that's.... idk, maybe some people like that. I don't.

And I get that some people didn't like Tennant and the way he acted and the way Davies wrote him, but for all his emoting, you got the sense that you knew who he was and why he was the way he was and what was going on in his messed up head. I've got no idea why 11 is the way he is, and I don't much care. I feel nothing for him, he's just a capering buffoon, who sometimes gets angry but we're not given a proper character-based reason why he gets angry, he just does. I don't care about him, I don't care about his mind's inner workings, I don't care about his companions (apart from Rory, he really had it fucking tough and was the star of those series'), because I'm given precisely zero reason to care.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 1, 2013)

I'd also like to have a discussion about class.

Rose and Donna were working class, had it tough in their own various ways, and were by far the most interesting of the companions so far (I know a lot of people don't like Rose, and I admit I really, really didn't like the way her story ended - mummy and daddy reunite, she gets her own special doctor - please *voms*), especially Donna. Martha was probably the weakest, and she was from a well-to-do family, training to be a doctor, fell sappily in love with ten in a really boring way, just as a foil to remind us he was 'really fucking hurting' because of Rose. She became all strong and leader-like at the end, but in a really boring way. She didn't have to struggle for anything, natural leader, was always going to be treated with respect. Amy - well, where the fuck did class feature with her? Rory was a nurse, but we hear nothing more really about that. She was a kissagram, living in a big fuck off house seemingly able to maintain it, pay the council tax, bills ect all on her kissagram wage without worrying and still affording her nice clothes. Then the doctor buys her and Rory this lovely city house, and she gets everything handed to her, somehow becomes some kind of model (what the fuck was even going on with that?) and is all glamour and excitement and girl who has it all even though all she wants is her raggedy man. And now we've got Clara, whose class background isn't clear but certainly isn't struggling - she might be a 'worker' but it seems like she's had privileged positions - governess is pretty privileged, live in nanny as a friend of the family who was seemingly able to afford to decide to fuck off travelling seems like she's not exactly doing bad for herself. And so far she's just as empty and boring and 'window dressing' as Gillan was.

These are initial thoughts. I hand it over to the good people of urban to argue the toss.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 1, 2013)

i think class is peripheral.  

the reason rory and donna have been the best companions is that neither of them were remotely attracted to or in love with the doctor.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 1, 2013)

I agree about the not being in love thing.

I don't talk about class in the sense that I believe it's written with that in mind. But I find it no less peripheral than it is in real life. It's no less worthy of analysis than any other discussion we have about Who.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 1, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'd also like to have a discussion about class.
> 
> .


 
a first on urban


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2013)

thriller said:


> His head looks photoshoped


Yes it seems odd that his face is lit from the right and his arm from the left.
Probably real but silly lighting to highlight his (important) face.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:
			
		

> Martha was probably the weakest.


She was the hottest, though.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2013)

I could maybe put up with one female companion that fawned over the doctor, but why the heck do they all have to? And with rose the doctor even reciprocated, no no NO NO.
The assistant is really just a story telling tool, someone for us to empathize with on their magical journey, someone that the doctor talks to so the audience gets to hear what's going on. When they are ALWAYS the plot and ALWAYS sassy young girls and ALWAYS fancy the doctor and ALWAYS shittly written shit actors, it begins to grate a bit.
When a real actor is on screen it really highlights how embarrassing it is.

Not that old who was any better.
How about Adric, Nissa and Tegan for a trio?
At least they all came from different places, and Adrics death really did stick with me (It even had Beril Reid in that one).


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> She was the hottest, though.


 
I liked the Amy the best for the 'One for the' dadability


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:
			
		

> Not that old who was any better.
> How about Adric, Nissa and Tegan for a trio?
> .


I don't remember them. Were they in the 80s? I stopped watching when Davidson took over. He didn't seem right to me.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I don't remember them. Were they in the 80s? I stopped watching when Davidson took over. He didn't seem right to me.


 
Pre and post Davison.
They met Adric in E space (I think). Nissa joined last, she was a princess from logopolis or something just before the switch from Tom to Peter.

I liked Davison.


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 1, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Pre and post Davison.
> They met Adric in E space (I think). Nissa joined last, she was a princess from logopolis or something just before the switch from Tom to Peter.
> 
> I liked Davison.


Me too, but then he was "my era".

Nyssa was actually Anthony Ainley's Master's daughter....sort of.  The Master took over her father's body, played by Anthony Ainley. Both were introduced in the same story, The Keeper of Traken.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Me too, but then he was "my era".
> 
> Nyssa was actually Anthony Ainley's Master's daughter....sort of. The Master took over her father's body, played by Anthony Ainley. Both were introduced in the same story, The Keeper of Traken.


 
Oh yeah, odd one that.
The guy that wasn't the Master looked just like the old version of the master, then he took over his body at the end.
Oddly it was as if he was always destined to be the master because his name (Tremas I think) was an anagram of it.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 1, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> hints of valeyard


 
Or the Master. Which other Timelords are still running around? There's the Rani, the Doctor's Daughter, the Meddling Monk (this might tie in with Saturday's episode), but who else?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 1, 2013)

morbius lol


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2013)

I read that they are going to do the Dr Who origin story, so he will probably be a time lordy type.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 1, 2013)

Just saw a pic of Davey T and Smithy at the read through.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Just saw a pic of Davey T and Smithy at the read through.


 
Yes, I think they have officially admitted quite a lot so far. Some of the old actors, while not being 'confirmed' have admitted that they have been asked to keep the dates free.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 1, 2013)

It will be a bit hard adding them in. I mean peter davison juuuust about pulled it off in the comic relife one and McCoy might look alright vut have you seen colin baker? and tom baker is now doing his john pertwee impression

i guess they might play members of the House of Lungbarrow


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 1, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> It will be a bit hard adding them in. I mean peter davison juuuust about pulled it off in the comic relife one and McCoy might look alright vut have you seen colin baker? and tom baker is now doing his john pertwee impression
> 
> i guess they might play members of the House of Lungbarrow


 
I would put them all in an alternate universe / timeline thing where each regeneration never regenerated.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 1, 2013)

Isn't the usual thing to use out-takes from aired episodes or clips from un-aired ones? Anyway, there's nothing wrong with Baker's voice. They could use the old 'trapped in the machine' schtick.


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 1, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Isn't the usual thing to use out-takes from aired episodes or clips from un-aired ones? Anyway, there's nothing wrong with Baker's voice. They could use the old 'trapped in the machine' schtick.


The usual thing?  They did it in The Five Doctors, but only because Tom Baker didn't want to be in it. All the other episodes where a previous Doctor has appeared featured the actual actor(s).


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 1, 2013)

well apart from william hartnell / richard hurndall


----------



## Pingu (Apr 2, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'd also like to have a discussion about class.


 
no lets not...

its a dr who thread ffs not some wanky P&P thread titled "the bbc and its middle class bias - discuss"


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2013)

although that sounds like my sort of thread tbh


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 2, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Pre and post Davison.
> They met Adric in E space (I think). Nissa joined last, she was a princess from logopolis or something just before the switch from Tom to Peter.
> 
> I liked Davison.


Adric came first then they met Nyssa on Traken. They left ended up on Earth playing  and left the door open and Tegen wondered in and got lost in the interior. They went off to Logopolis where they picked up Nyssa.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 2, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Or the Master. Which other Timelords are still running around? There's the Rani, the Doctor's Daughter, the Meddling Monk (this might tie in with Saturday's episode), but who else?


Romana?

From Lalla Ward to John Hurt. Frightening.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 2, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> Romana?
> 
> From Lalla Ward to John Hurt. Frightening.


 
Romana can 'apparently' change into any form at any time at will. When she 'regenerated' she just tried on a load of bodies, and settled for that looked like someone she had already met. In fact all her bodies were of people the doctor and her has supposedly encountered.


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 2, 2013)

I just read that Jonny Lee Miller's first apperence  was in an episode of old Who, specifically the story "Kinda", featuring Peter Davison and the creature the Mara. Interestingly this creature made a reappearance in the Dr. Who audio adventure transmitted on Radio 4 Extra last week "The Cradle of the Snake" - the stories featuring Peter Davison really are rather good. With the old companions too.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 4, 2013)

I got a job ad sent to me this morning for "Uwch Gynhyrchydd" (Doctor Who apparently)
They want an executive producer.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 4, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I got a job ad sent to me this morning for "Uwch Gynhyrchydd" (Doctor Who apparently)
> They want an executive producer.


 
imagine how much it would wind you up if you not only had to watch it but also  work on it.


----------



## Kuso (Apr 4, 2013)

having just rewatched Saturday's episode I've realised just how utterly fuckin dire it was.


----------



## spirals (Apr 5, 2013)

I just watched the new episode, it was alright, nothing really fantastic though and I am beyond bored with the sassy, hot, young, companions now. If you quoted from a script you wouldn't be able to tell which companion they are, they all seem to have the same attitudes and as a long time whovian it's getting quite dissappointing


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 6, 2013)

8den said:


> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...cleston-claims-he-was-doctor-who-201006152814


 



> Eccleston has carved out a sort of career for himself after appearing in the landmark 37-part BBC drama _London is Fucking Shit_, before going on to star in a series of miserable Jimmy McGovern classics including _Bastards _and _Why Won’t it Stop Raining?._
> The pair later teamed up for a dismally unsuccessful reworking of the children’s adventure series_ Monkey_ where Eccleston played a disillusioned trade union activist who could magically transform himself into a library for working class children.



I proper pissed myself when I read that.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 6, 2013)

Was an ok episode - interesting idea, but never properly fleshed out and reolved in the usual casual magic wand way.Agree that the new companion is more of the same - young attractive women is sassy and flirts with the doctor. Yes to companions from earth's history and other planets. 

And the relentless fucking background music really really gets on my tits.


----------



## 8den (Apr 6, 2013)

Rory's dad for next companion.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 6, 2013)

Rory is the maybe a bit dodgy vicar in Broadchurch, it's quite unnerving.


----------



## Santino (Apr 6, 2013)

Rory's dad is a crime-busting priest.


Meting out his own unique brand of justice.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 6, 2013)

This is really very dull. Very very dull


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 6, 2013)

Worst episode ever  Sort it out writers, that was abyssmal!


----------



## kittyP (Apr 6, 2013)

8115 said:


> Rory is the maybe a bit dodgy vicar in Broadchurch, it's quite unnerving.


 
This ^
I love Mark Williams


----------



## captainmission (Apr 6, 2013)

that was a dreary episode. Really showed up Matt smith limitations as an actor too.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 6, 2013)

Utter utter utter shite. I was vaguely interested when I thought it was a set up for the doctor spending at least the rest of the series suffering from  amnesia. Not an original idea (Its been done at least thrice in the books and on the tv) but could of been done well. Utter utter fucking shite.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 6, 2013)

Not good at all, the young ones enjoyed it though.


----------



## T & P (Apr 6, 2013)

Proper shite, that.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 6, 2013)

Quite good, excellent aliens, seemed quite long.  7/10


----------



## agricola (Apr 6, 2013)

Santino said:


> Rory's dad is a crime-busting priest.
> 
> 
> Meting out his own unique brand of justice.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 6, 2013)

bit poo


----------



## Kuso (Apr 6, 2013)

i hate it, what have they done to dr who? i hate the new tardis, the new theme music, his new outfit, the extramature cheesey dialogue, the cheesy music during the episodes, the new found need to dash about on motor bikes/ jet skis (what was wrong with "running, lots of running"? and the whole impossible impossible companion thing is shit,

actually upset that this series will be gash 

oh and what ever happened to "don't wander off" its a staple when taking a new companion to her first alien world, and why wasnt the tardis translator working?

I LOVE doctor who and am quite the apologist for it (if thats the word) I even love the shit ones... but these last 2 have been almost unredeemable


----------



## RedDragon (Apr 6, 2013)

The little girl's face reminded me of lemon-drizzel cake. 

Episode couldn't of been worse if they had all sang Jerusalem.


----------



## agricola (Apr 6, 2013)

Kuso said:


> i hate it, what have they done to dr who? i hate the new tardis, the new theme music, his new outfit, the extramature cheesey dialogue, the cheesy music during the episodes, the new found need to dash about on motor bikes/ jet skis (what was wrong with "running, lots of running"? and the whole impossible impossible companion thing is shit,
> 
> actually upset that this series will be gash
> 
> ...


 
The only two decent episodes of series 7 were the first two, the rest have been varying levels of dire.


----------



## Kuso (Apr 6, 2013)

agricola said:


> The only two decent episodes of series 7 were the first two, the rest have been varying levels of dire.


 
I rewatched the gunslinger one and actually really enjoyed it.  the first two were indeed amazing.  amy n rory's departure was pretty good, but felt rushed- shoulda been a two parter

there were 5 before xmas, how many are left in this series? another 5 or 6 to make 12/13? can't see it being an ace season unfortunately


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 6, 2013)

dp


----------



## Quartz (Apr 6, 2013)

Seemed aimed at kids rather than adults.


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 6, 2013)

I have to agree. The next one looks like it might be good though with nuclear missiles, a submarine, Liam Cunningham and a bloke out of Rome.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 6, 2013)

Of that syrupy visit to the Mos Eisley Cantina, I can say no more than to quote Tibor Fischer, who was writing at the time of Martin Amis' _Yellow Dog:_



> [It] isn't bad as in not very good or slightly disappointing. It's not-knowing-where-to-look bad. I was reading my copy on the Tube and I was terrified someone would look over my shoulder (not only because of the embargo, but because someone might think I was enjoying what was on the page). It's like your favourite uncle being caught in a school playground, masturbating.


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 7, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Seemed aimed at kids rather than adults.


Can't imagine any kids liking it either, drippiest Dr Who episode I can ever remember


----------



## pigtails (Apr 7, 2013)

Utter shite.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2013)

I normally forgive but this one wasn't quite up to standard. I did like the mos eisely market thing though. Nice singing as well. Grasping at straws to like though, and the hoverbike thing was just too much.

With the leaf though I am reminded of leonard cohens line from chealsea hotel



> I don't mean to suggest that I loved you the best,
> I can't keep track of each fallen robin.


 
except replace robin with leaf COS THATS HOW THE SONG GOES IN MY HEAD OK?


----------



## cesare (Apr 7, 2013)

cesare earlier said:
			
		

> It's all gone Live Aid


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 7, 2013)

Fuck me that made the Kylie episode look like Die Hard.


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 7, 2013)

I enjoyed that episode, it was shiny and bright. I do like the new tardis as well, it has a guarded warmth to it. The glimpses of clara's parents was nicely done, not overly mawkish but with enough emotion to underline the symbolism of the leaf to clara. All in all a good episode for me.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 7, 2013)

It started well. Then it stumbled through lamely to the end with the death by sentiment to blame. 
Infinity? Really? What? No!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2013)

i dreamt that matt smith regenerated into peter davidson last night and then his head got grafted onto a dalek. odd


----------



## badseed (Apr 7, 2013)

It started well with Ghost Town.
Then.. Mos Eisley, the Blade Runner speech and Home Again Home again Jiggedy Jig

A resounding meh


----------



## Gromit (Apr 7, 2013)

Am I the only one who thought letting the kid feed herself to grandfather seemed the most reasonable plan?

Who is the doctor to decide who gets to eat and who starves? Vampires are sentient beings too.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 7, 2013)

badseed said:


> It started well with Ghost Town.


 
Yes, but things went downhill with dizzying speed as soon as the leaf appeared.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 7, 2013)

The most important leaf in human history better be true because Ozwin turns out to be the most important human in the history of the universe or something. Otherwise he was such a conceited prick.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2013)

Was there another episode? 
Is it on every week again?


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 7, 2013)

The leaf ending was a load of gash.
It didn't even really make any sense. It was like something an 11 year old would write.

And now those 7 planets no longer have a sun?

I hope the writers get stuck in a house fire.


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 7, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Was there another episode?
> Is it on every week again?


Are you for real? I am starting to think there is team of comedy writers posting as you


----------



## 8den (Apr 7, 2013)

NO MORE PISSING ABOUT ON ANTI GRAVE BIKES, HOVER MOPEDS OR SODDING CHEAP KNOCK OFFS OF A FLASH GORDON SKY CYCLE!


----------



## Gromit (Apr 7, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> The leaf ending was a load of gash.
> It didn't even really make any sense. It was like something an 11 year old would write.
> 
> And now those 7 planets no longer have a sun?
> ...



Wasn't a sun. They thought it was a planet.


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 7, 2013)

Gromit said:


> Wasn't a sun. They thought it was a planet.


Oh. At the beginning the Dr said that's an alien sun you can feel on your eye lids. 
I thought he was talking about that, as it was right in front of them, lighting them up. I guessed it was just not a very effective/bright/hot sun. 

Are you defending the episode


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2013)

I'm having a crack at it now. 
The dialogue is pitiful. I am so sick of peppy assistants.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 7, 2013)

#doctorwhogivesafuckanymore

What a sorry state of affairs. As someone I follow on twitter said, imagine what Matt Smith could do if he actually had a team of writers writing for him. The 'vision' of Moffat lays a heavy burden on this series now, and the show and audience are all the poorer for it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 7, 2013)

I just realised that I haven't bothered to watch any of the last few and I don't care. Even my friend who is a bit of a Whovian and usually always IMs me to say "did you see the Who then? Watch it on iplayer now and then we can talk about it" hasn't bothered saying that recently.

Can't say anything in the last few pages here is changing my mind either.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 7, 2013)

Donna was the most important human in all of history and it worked because she wasn't the point of the whole series right from the beginning and she wasn't trying to get in his pants and she actually had some character. She was just another random, who didn't have a lot of faith in herself, who followed the doctor around and slowly grew into someone who was kinda awesome in her own right, who worked as a foil for the doctor and also as our eyes and ears in the doctor's journeys around the universe. Since then, the companions are the doctor's reason for existing, they are the reason he goes anywhere, does anything, says whatever he says. His entire life is dedicated to working out why the companions are the way they are, who they are, what they are.

It's perhaps not surprising we are at this stage. The cult of the individual has never been so prevalent as it currently is. All our tv shows are aimed at convincing us that we could be famous for being nothing at all, that our story is important, if only someone would listen... the cult of the individual companion since Moffat's reign is what you would expect from that. The companions are no longer important because they have a certain strength that comes from their abilities, from what they achieve - no, they are seemingly born with this amazingness already built into them. Donna, Rose, and Martha (love her or hate her) all went from ordinary to extraordinary, capable of being worthy companions in the actual equal companion sense of the doctor, because of how they grew through their experiences with him. Amy and Clara both appear to have some sort of inherent importance right from the get-go, which frankly leaves them as utterly boring and incapable of development in any meaningful way. Rory fit the Donna/Rose/Martha mold, because he was a seemingly ordinary person who wasn't that great, and ended up doing some very great things, which perhaps shocked even him because he didn't think he had it in him. If you can take any message away from what the companions are supposed to signify, it might be, perhaps idealistically, that each of us has the possibility to grow and realise our own importance and worth. Each of us can be great in our own way. With the last 2 companions, however, that message has changed to be that some people are born great, you don't need to work for this, you get it handed to you if you are lucky, and then you're the centre of the universe.

Shit shit shit.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2013)

Oh my god it's not just shit, it's embarrassing now.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2013)

Why won't it stop?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 7, 2013)

Great post Vintage Paw. The only hope for Oswin is that Valentine Dyall returns from the grave to charge her with an iatrocidal mission that all of us could support.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 7, 2013)

Really shoddy writing that, I genuinely believe I could've done better. Add to that sloppy direction/editing and Matt Smith's failed attempt at manufacturing some gravitas and the only positive was Jenna-Louise Whatsername who despite the crummy script managed to be fairly watchable.

And yeah I know I've complained about her before but she was actually pretty good in that episode.

e2a: Seriously though, these writers. Aren't TV shows supposed to have a script editor or something?


----------



## dessiato (Apr 7, 2013)

I didn't enjoy last night's episode. It just seemed to be a nothing story. It reminded me a bit of 5th Element, but without the style.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 7, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'm having a crack at it now.
> The dialogue is pitiful. I am so sick of peppy assistants.


For once we are all going to be in full agreement of any disses you can think of, revel in your moment of glory AS.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

Last two episodes have felt like makeweight. Hope this doesn't continue.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 7, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> For once we are all going to be in full agreement of any disses you can think of, revel in your moment of glory AS.


 
"Even a stopped clock..." etc etc.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 7, 2013)

That was utter fucking shite. Worst episode in a long time.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 7, 2013)

gnoriac said:


> Can't imagine any kids liking it either, drippiest Dr Who episode I can ever remember



Oddly, and in a spirit of fairness, I have to report that my seven and ten-year-old daughters loved it. But why should we like the same TV? The little wretches are fans of Danni's House and Sadie J, abominations that leave one nostalgic for Rentaghost.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 7, 2013)

so the thing is, Moffat wrote some of the best episodes of the RTD era.  No question.  And I do really like his Sherlock (which, not coincidentally, has no significant female characters for him to write)...  but his tenure of Who compared to RTD is just woeful.  The return of the angels was weak, both times - becuase good ideas get knackered by overuse (qv: River Song). The amy stuff was dire.  There have been some good episodes (the southern gothic abandoned orphanage with the silence and the writing on the walls was good, the Richard Curtis/Van Gogh episode was splendid) and Rory was a brilliant, brilliant companion... but - it's just so disappointing.  Long, long story arrcs which promise to be the stuff of the entire universe in their denoument can only disappoint after so many hours of building up the hype.  

And whyowhyowhy doesn't he write better female characters?  He wrote Sally Sparrow.  He can do it. He just chooses not to.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2013)

can only assume he underestimates the audience and thinks female characters who aren't mum or love interest aren't going to work with the audience ?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 7, 2013)

Perhaps the issue is that Moffat was a good writer but has proved to be a weak showrunner. RTD's episodes were often cheesy, but he got more out of the writing talent at his disposal, and used story arcs more gracefully, than Moffat has done. The BBC should bring in a stronger showrunner and let Moffat write a couple of episodes a year featuring all the eerie children and sassy saucepots that he wants. Ronald D Moore appears to be at a loose end. We could do worse. Or Vince Gilligan; I don't care what it costs. Just put the license fee up and axe Radio One.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2013)

plus Gatiss for the odd 'HELLO! ITS ME MARK GATTISS WRITING ANOTHER THINLY VIELED HORROR-IN-TWEE STORY!'


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 7, 2013)

There have been some great episodes under Moffat, but I won't be disappointed when he moves on. I worry Mark Gatiss will take over, though, and I don't think that would be an improvement.

Toby Whithouse is probably my favourite recurring DW writer at the moment.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 7, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> plus Gatiss for the odd 'HELLO! ITS ME MARK GATTISS WRITING ANOTHER THINLY VIELED HORROR-IN-TWEE STORY!'


 
He has the distinction of writing the worst Dalek episode of New Who. Writing Churchill as a comedy buffoon was particularly jarring when it was followed so shortly afterwards by the great (family friendly) portrayal of Van Gogh.


----------



## Santino (Apr 7, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Donna was the most important human in all of history and it worked because she wasn't the point of the whole series right from the beginning and she wasn't trying to get in his pants and she actually had some character. She was just another random, who didn't have a lot of faith in herself, who followed the doctor around and slowly grew into someone who was kinda awesome in her own right, who worked as a foil for the doctor and also as our eyes and ears in the doctor's journeys around the universe. Since then, the companions are the doctor's reason for existing, they are the reason he goes anywhere, does anything, says whatever he says. His entire life is dedicated to working out why the companions are the way they are, who they are, what they are.
> 
> It's perhaps not surprising we are at this stage. The cult of the individual has never been so prevalent as it currently is. All our tv shows are aimed at convincing us that we could be famous for being nothing at all, that our story is important, if only someone would listen... the cult of the individual companion since Moffat's reign is what you would expect from that. The companions are no longer important because they have a certain strength that comes from their abilities, from what they achieve - no, they are seemingly born with this amazingness already built into them. Donna, Rose, and Martha (love her or hate her) all went from ordinary to extraordinary, capable of being worthy companions in the actual equal companion sense of the doctor, because of how they grew through their experiences with him. Amy and Clara both appear to have some sort of inherent importance right from the get-go, which frankly leaves them as utterly boring and incapable of development in any meaningful way. Rory fit the Donna/Rose/Martha mold, because he was a seemingly ordinary person who wasn't that great, and ended up doing some very great things, which perhaps shocked even him because he didn't think he had it in him. If you can take any message away from what the companions are supposed to signify, it might be, perhaps idealistically, that each of us has the possibility to grow and realise our own importance and worth. Each of us can be great in our own way. With the last 2 companions, however, that message has changed to be that some people are born great, you don't need to work for this, you get it handed to you if you are lucky, and then you're the centre of the universe.
> 
> Shit shit shit.


To be fair, we don't yet know why Clara is special. Because of timey-wimey it might just be because of something she does in this incarnation.


----------



## kalidarkone (Apr 7, 2013)

I have noticed that in every series of Dr Who, the second episode is always shit...like they have to cut back on the budget because they have made an expensive first episode.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 7, 2013)

kalidarkone said:


> I have noticed that in every series of Dr Who, the second episode is always shit...like they have to cut back on the budget because they have made an expensive first episode.


It's not the second episode though, and plenty of classic Who had a very small budget indeed.


----------



## kalidarkone (Apr 7, 2013)

What do you mean by classic Dr who? what era? 70'S and 80's were shit....although enjoyed them at the time. Caught some on an obscure channel fairly recently and it was sooo dull.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 7, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Perhaps the issue is that Moffat was a good writer but has proved to be a weak showrunner. RTD's episodes were often cheesy, but he got more out of the writing talent at his disposal, and used story arcs more gracefully, than Moffat has done. The BBC should bring in a stronger showrunner and let Moffat write a couple of episodes a year featuring all the eerie children and sassy saucepots that he wants. Ronald D Moore appears to be at a loose end. We could do worse. Or Vince Gilligan; I don't care what it costs. Just put the license fee up and axe Radio One.


 
Ronald D Moore, I only just realised that he was in charge of Star Trek Deep Space Nine as well as Battlestar Galactica. Rewatching DS9 the common ground between the two shows is pretty obvious; particularly with their realistic approach to themes of terrorism, oppression and paranoia.

e2a: But yeah, with DS9 he took a franchise with a massive cult following and a highly episodic format and created something that was new and compelling with story arcs which developed over time. He did that without pissing off the fanbase as well. Sounds like the perfect man for the Doctor Who job.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 7, 2013)

kalidarkone said:


> I have noticed that in every series of Dr Who, the second episode is always shit...like they have to cut back on the budget because they have made an expensive first episode.


 
That episode looked pretty expensive to me. If only for all the different alien costumes involved, those are probably more expensive than all the CGI nonsense these days.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 7, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> That episode looked pretty expensive to me. If only for all the different alien costumes involved, those are probably more expensive than all the CGI nonsense these days.


Couldn't say for sure, but my guess would be they raided the BBC's costume dept.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 7, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> Couldn't say for sure, but my guess would be they raided the BBC's costume dept.


 
One of the aliens was a Hooloovoo, which was a nice little nod to Douglas Adams I thought.

Of course a Hooloovoo is not actually a humanoid creature but rather a hyper-intelligent shade of the colour blue.


----------



## Kuso (Apr 7, 2013)

there's something about how the second half of this series *looks* that jars with me, its really hard to decribe but its like colours are too vivid and everythings TOO defined, even background stuff that shouldn't  be.  it looks very harsh and stark whereas it was always _softer _before

really hard to articulate but hopefully someone understands me   oh, and they've done that thing with the sound- dialogue is way too quiet in the sound.  and the music's terrible

and what is with matt smiths new suit? its fucking shite.  before it worked because it was just odd and mishmashed and proper eccentric looking and had been thrown together in a chaging rooom.  it was cool because it wasnt at all.  now they've tried to make that look cool it looks awful.

/stoned, rambling

game of thrones s3 may be good- i'd been looking forward to new who for months, watched all the rest so many times


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 7, 2013)

Kuso said:


> there's something about how the second half of this series *looks* that jars with me, its really hard to decribe but its like colours are too vivid and everythings TOO defined, even background stuff that shouldn't be. it looks very harsh and stark whereas it was always _softer _before


Have you bought a new telly?


----------



## Kuso (Apr 7, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Have you bought a new telly?


 
no.

like you know when it was david tennants tardis and it was all bronze and he wore brown, donna had ginger hair, amy had ginger hair everything seemed to be reddish hued and soft.

now the tardis is stark and blue and a lot of shots seem to be mainly blue hued.  things have got shinier, brighter.  i dunno, it makes sense in my head


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 7, 2013)

Kuso said:


> now the tardis is stark and blue


Well, y'know, it's always been blue...


----------



## Kuso (Apr 7, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> Well, y'know, it's always been blue...


 
on the INSIDE!


----------



## kalidarkone (Apr 7, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> That episode looked pretty expensive to me. If only for all the different alien costumes involved, those are probably more expensive than all the CGI nonsense these days.


Maybe but it still seemed cheap...but maybe cos it was just a shit story.


----------



## Kuso (Apr 7, 2013)

the christmas special gave me high hopes for this half of the series, the only decent xmas one theres been,  "its smaller on the outside"  wonder when the episode with (is it?) ashley from so solid crew, they go exploring inside the tardis.

rivers back at some point, I wonder how that;ll work.  if their time streams are running opposite directions its her turn not to know him isn't it?  and the lizard one and her gf/maid and the green wet nurse that looks like a potato are too.  think for the last 2 episodes


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 7, 2013)

Kuso said:


> on the INSIDE!


No, no, it's _bigger_ on the inside.

Honestly, this is entry-level stuff


----------



## Kuso (Apr 7, 2013)

kalidarkone said:


> I have noticed that in every series of Dr Who, the second episode is always shit...like they have to cut back on the budget because they have made an expensive first episode.


 
the second episode of series 7 was dinosaurs on a space ship which was ACE, but I think you're right in every other regard


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 7, 2013)

Kuso said:


> the lizard one and her gf/maid and the green wet nurse that looks like a potato are too. think for the last 2 episodes


Should blatantly have stayed as the Dr's crew. As other's have said, let's have a change of tack with the companions, eh?


----------



## Kuso (Apr 7, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> No, no, it's _bigger_ on the inside.
> 
> Honestly, this is entry-level stuff


 
I know _that_ but before it was bigger on the inside and golds, and reddish hues, copper tones sand softer to look at.  now its bigger on the inside and blues and greys and sharp lines, stark and more sci fi looking, which doesnt suit the doctor.  it looks like thr bridge of a star ship, not a snog box. and I hate all the stupid symbols


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 7, 2013)

Nah, have to say, I was more a fan of the previous interiors too.


----------



## Kuso (Apr 7, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> Should blatantly have stayed as the Dr's crew. As other's have said, let's have a change of tack with the companions, eh?


 
yeah, the green potato guy is hilarious and there's always plenty of innuendo with the lizard woman and her gf.  or queen nifititi (sp?) from dinos on a space ship


----------



## kalidarkone (Apr 7, 2013)

Kuso said:


> the second episode of series 7 was dinosaurs on a space ship which was ACE, but I think you're right in every other regard


Ok I'm talking about the episode that was this Sat gone.


----------



## Kuso (Apr 7, 2013)

kalidarkone said:


> Ok I'm talking about the episode that was this Sat gone.


 
yeah I know, I was just looking an excuse to bring up that episode  "how do you start a tricerotops?" 

I would love to be doctor who for a day


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 7, 2013)

kalidarkone said:


> Ok I'm talking about the episode that was this Sat gone.


Episode 7 iirc and the first one back after a long break. One thing they shouldn't have been short of is funding - it's meant to make sure people are enticed into watching the second part of the series.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> It's not the second episode though, and plenty of classic Who had a very small budget indeed.


 
Some of the smaller budget old who is brilliant, there is only writing. Those episodes where they are just in the tardis control room or just in a plain white studio and pretending it is some kind of weird space outside space. Always far better. 

Jesus, i'll be saying Lars Von Trier isn't a cock next.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 8, 2013)

ive nicked this from another forum but I wonder if there is any significance ?

http://i.newsarama.com/images/1986-R...ler-Poster.jpg

http://24.media.tumblr.com/589d5d639...do4_r1_250.gif

Rose Tyler - Missing 6th March 2005

Ellie Oswald - Died 5th March 2005


----------



## Kuso (Apr 8, 2013)

ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, not sure if I believe in coincidences when it comes to who but I struggle to find something that'd link it.


----------



## kittyP (Apr 8, 2013)

I don't hate these as such, they just could be a lot better. 

I think Matt Smith can act and they are fun but they seem too aimed at kids, too cheesy and the Clara seems like she could turn in to a psychopath at any moment. Totally irresponsible and running on chance. 
At least other companions seems to have some sense of conscience and responsibility iyswim? 

I hate the new theme music. 

I did still quite enjoy it though


----------



## Epona (Apr 8, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> ive nicked this from another forum but I wonder if there is any significance ?
> 
> http://i.newsarama.com/images/1986-R...ler-Poster.jpg
> 
> ...


 
Clara Oswald can be seen as a personification of the history of the Doctor Who series - many of the dates that have come up as points in her life are linked to either the series or the people involved in creating it.  5th March 2005 was the date that the first episode of the modern Doctor Who ("Rose") was leaked on the internet, and was the first look most of us had of the modern series.  Ellie Oswald was born on 11th September 1960, which was the debut date of a series called "Pathfinders to the Future" on ITV - a kid's time travel sci-fi show produced by Sidney Newman who later came to the BBC as Head of Drama and greenlighted the first season of Doctor Who.  Clara herself was born on 23rd November, the anniversary of the debut of Doctor Who.  The year? 1989, when the series was first cancelled.  The missing ages in that book she carries round with her correspond to years when Classic Doctor Who was not aired/on hiatus for one reason or another.

It's like a meta-reference nirvana for Doctor Who geeks - plenty of nods to Doctor Who history.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 8, 2013)

Ive heard about Ellies d.o.b on the other forum, but I reckon / hope there is more to it. It does seem a bit strange that Ellie died the same day as the Dr turned up again and met Rose.

but you know Stephen Moffat, its probably all red herrings and its was all a dream....


----------



## Santino (Apr 8, 2013)

Epona said:


> Ellie Oswald was born on 11th September 1960, which was the debut date of a series called "Pathfinders to the Future" on ITV - a kid's time travel sci-fi show produced by Sidney Newman who later came to the BBC as Head of Drama and greenlighted the first season of Doctor Who.


That's quite weak.


----------



## barney_pig (Apr 8, 2013)

Btw when the new girl is trying hide the little girl, why wouldn't he tardis let her in? Is it linked to the tardis refusing to translate for her? Is the tardis acting as internal critic of the narrative drift?


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 8, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Btw when the new girl is trying hide the little girl, why wouldn't he tardis let her in? Is it linked to the tardis refusing to translate for her? Is the tardis acting as internal critic of the narrative drift?


I think she was right when she said it didn't like her. Charlie Pollard wasn't popular with the old girl either.


----------



## joustmaster (Apr 8, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I don't hate these as such, they just could be a lot better.
> 
> I think Matt Smith can act and they are fun but they seem too aimed at kids, too cheesy and the Clara seems like she could turn in to a psychopath at any moment. Totally irresponsible and running on chance.
> At least other companions seems to have some sense of conscience and responsibility iyswim?
> ...


yeah. Its gone a bit soft, or flat or something. Less special. 

The story, the music, everything seem more like something from an after school show, rather than a Saturday evening family show.

Which, as a 34 year old man, leaves me a bit bored


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 8, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Btw when the new girl is trying hide the little girl, why wouldn't he tardis let her in? Is it linked to the tardis refusing to translate for her? Is the tardis acting as internal critic of the narrative drift?


 

the doc hasn't given her a key has he. The Tardis requires a key, except when it doesn't for scripting convenience


----------



## Santino (Apr 8, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> the doc hasn't given her a key has he. The Tardis requires a key, except when it doesn't for scripting convenience


It depends on the presence of narrativium in the surrounding environment.


----------



## Santino (Apr 8, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> i dreamt that matt smith regenerated into peter davidson last night and then his head got grafted onto a dalek. odd


 
I dreamt that Patrick Stewart had been cast as a future incarnation of the Doctor for the 50th anniversary special.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 8, 2013)

Santino said:


> It depends on the presence of narrativium in the surrounding environment.


Its time someone reversed the polarity of the narrativium flow.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 8, 2013)

Santino said:


> I dreamt that Patrick Stewart had been cast as a future incarnation of the Doctor for the 50th anniversary special.


 

it was right odd, I remember a 40k flavour to the daleks as well, like space marine terminator stylings on a dalek. I really should get out more then my dreams will be better.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 8, 2013)

That was fucking dire. 40+ minutes of sweet fuck-all.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 8, 2013)

I still don't really understand what happened.

So, the Old God fed on stories, and so it fed on the Doctor, but it didn't really because then it fed on the leaf and the Doctor was seemingly alright? Or will it be revealed later that he isn't alright and has forgotten who people are or the lyrics to Yellow Submarine?


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 8, 2013)

Finally watched it an thought it was ok. Cracking children's/family telly, not really enough for adults though. It's a tricky balance. Liked the "are you joking, it's massive" bit.


----------



## 8den (Apr 8, 2013)

I tried to watch "City of Death" last year and gave up after 10 minutes, it was terrible.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 8, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Btw when the new girl is trying hide the little girl, why wouldn't he tardis let her in? Is it linked to the tardis refusing to translate for her? Is the tardis acting as internal critic of the narrative drift?


 
The Doc hasn't given her a key yet.


----------



## Epona (Apr 9, 2013)

I enjoyed the episode, I thought it was alright - not the best ever, but not as dire as some people seem to think.

Although if you look at it in context of my previous post (Clara as personification of the show), her offering up for destruction the 'infinite might-have-beens of something ended before its time' and her speech at the end about accepting her for who she is now rather than someone that previously died take on a potential meaning that might be lost on newer fans of the show - but for geeks like me, could be read as basically a "Deal With It" type statement about the direction the show is taking (or might be about to take).

I do have a tendency to overthink things mind you


----------



## Greebo (Apr 9, 2013)

New theme - lacked soul
Plot - meh
New Tardis interior FFS there was no need it change it yet again!
Bored now and I really wanted to enjoy this series.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 9, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p017gl8h


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 9, 2013)

I've never been a massive dr who fan and i've only seen a couple of episodes but i'm sure it's not usually as bad as the one me and dotty watched the other day.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 9, 2013)

the old god bit was kind of funny though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 9, 2013)

frogwoman said:
			
		

> I've never been a massive dr who fan and i've only seen a couple of episodes but i'm sure it's not usually as bad as the one me and dotty watched the other day.



It was underwhelming, but not as bad as some here are saying. Mind you the last half hour seemed to be entirely devoted to a song by Coldplay. Which can't be a good thing.


----------



## agricola (Apr 9, 2013)

Greebo said:


> New theme - lacked soul
> Plot - meh
> New Tardis interior FFS there was no need it change it yet again!
> Bored now and I really wanted to enjoy this series.


 
Who would have thought Chibnall would write the best episode of a Who series?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 9, 2013)

agricola said:


> Who would have thought Chibnall would write the best episode of a Who series?


 
_Asylum of the Daleks_ was Moffat. You cannot, seriously, be championing an episode which featured Alan fucking Sugar.


----------



## agricola (Apr 9, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> _Asylum of the Daleks_ was Moffat. You cannot, seriously, be championing an episode which featured Alan fucking Sugar.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 9, 2013)

agricola said:


>


 
Now you are just being ridiculous.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 9, 2013)

Perhaps Agricola's great-grandson - who really, really likes dinosaurs - is bored at a family gathering and playing on the computer which the patriarch has left logged on to Urban.


----------



## agricola (Apr 9, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Now you are just being ridiculous.


 
That episode has stood out like _Seven Samurai_, compared to the rest of the series' _Battlefield: Earth_.


----------



## Greebo (Apr 9, 2013)

agricola said:


> That episode has stood out like _Seven Samurai_, compared to the rest of the series' _Battlefield: Earth_.


Unfortunate, but true.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 9, 2013)

Fuck off, the cowboy episode was great


----------



## RedDragon (Apr 13, 2013)

An entertaining listen: The Reunion Radio 4



> Sue MacGregor reunites five people who created and starred in the first series of a television landmark, Doctor Who. Fifty years later, those who crammed nervously into the BBC's Lime Grove Studios in 1963 recount the triumphs and disasters that ushered in the longest running science-fiction series in the world.Joining Sue MacGregor is Waris Hussein, the director of the episode, Carole Ann Ford who played the Doctor's granddaughter and companion Susan, William Russell who played the Doctor's right hand man Ian Chesterton, actor Jeremy Young who was the first Doctor Who enemy Caveman Kal, and television presenter Peter Purves who travelled with William Hartnell in the mid 60's as companion Steven Taylor.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 13, 2013)

This evening's episode better be a lot better than last weeks or....or.... I shall complain on here. And possibly Twitter too!!


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 13, 2013)

Tonight's features Ser Davos Seaworth as a Soviet. It ought to be the greatest episode of all time


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2013)

the onion and black bread knight


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 13, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Tonight's features Ser Davos Seaworth as a Soviet. It ought to be the greatest episode of all time


 
And, unaccountably, it failed to be so. How could that have happened? Gatiss took the plot from _Dalek_ and some scary bits from _Alien,_ he featured the screwdriver a lot, mentioned a number of 80s bands - which really should have been desperately funny  - and a good £20 was spent on costumes and effects. It's a mystery how it didn't work.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2013)

Since when did the doctor respect warrior codes and all that? Has di canio taken over scriptwriting duties?


I was gratified only because I went 'oh its an Ice Warrior' and then the doctor said it was and mum was impressed 'how did you know' 

'because I am deeply sad'

not enough communism in this ep tbf. A few comrades' thrown around but no real dialectics.Sort it out beeb, else I'll get stallincos on the job


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 13, 2013)

Better than last week...which is not saying much. It was all very "meh" tbh


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2013)

next weeks ep will be the pair of them spending two weeks on a soviet era nuclear sub surrounded by unshaven men who masturbate in silence and eating really shit food as the sub heads to the south pole

That disappearing tardis is a Plot Device. It will be milked.


----------



## mentalchik (Apr 13, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Since when did the doctor respect warrior codes and all that? Has di canio taken over scriptwriting duties?
> 
> 
> I was gratified only because I went 'oh its an Ice Warrior' and then the doctor said it was and mum was impressed 'how did you know'
> ...


 
I knew it was as well...................mainly because the original ice warriors scared the living shit out of me as a kid for some reason.......


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 13, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> That disappearing Tardis is a Plot Device. It will be milked.


 
The H.A.D.S. is from Troughton's The Krotons.
The Great Intelligence is from Troughton's Yeti stories.
The Ice Warriors are from Troughton. (Not their actual race name, just a nick-name given to them by a minor character in their first story)
What next from Troughton?


----------



## RedDragon (Apr 13, 2013)

Mark Gaitis episodes never fail to irritate.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> The H.A.D.S. is from Troughton's The Krotons.
> The Great Intelligence is from Troughton's Yeti stories.
> The Ice Warriors are from Troughton. (Not their actual race name, just a nick-name given to them by a minor character in their first story)
> What next from Troughton?


 
dying


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 13, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> The H.A.D.S. is from Troughton's The Krotons.
> The Great Intelligence is from Troughton's Yeti stories.
> The Ice Warriors are from Troughton. (Not their actual race name, just a nick-name given to them by a minor character in their first story)
> What next from Troughton?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 13, 2013)

The most awkward office party in history.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 13, 2013)

Helen Back said:


>


Mark Steel?


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 14, 2013)

It was an reasonable episode, a little bit filler-ish but entertaining.  I quite like the slightly off-kilter relationship that seems to be developing between clara and the doctor and her uncertainty in this episode made her a bit more of a person rather than a curiosity. Still a definite thumbs up from me.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 14, 2013)

I enjoyed it, nice and scary for the young ones, decent story.

'you MUST tell me about the future...do Ultravox split up?'


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2013)

I liked it. It was good to see David Warner as a boffin in a cold war drama, too.


----------



## captainmission (Apr 14, 2013)

Why, if you could go anywhere in time and space, would your second trip in the tardis be to las vegas? I don't like the new companion at all. She's bland and her face looks like a rubbish spoon.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 14, 2013)

matt smiths head looks like an easter island statue though so its all relative


----------



## Santino (Apr 14, 2013)

captainmission said:


> Why, if you could go anywhere in time and space, would your second trip in the tardis be to las vegas? I don't like the new companion at all. She's bland and her face looks like a rubbish spoon.


Let's focus on what's important, how attractive you find the actors.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 14, 2013)

twas much better than the last 2 weeks efforts


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 14, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I liked it. It was good to see David Warner as a boffin in a cold war drama, too.


 
I liked it too, and also good to see another actor who has played The Doctor in the audio-books getting a go on the telly show.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 14, 2013)

after going to mos eisley and inadvertently waking up a planet sized energy vampire that can only be kept lullabied by young girls with impressive facial scarfication one would assume vegas would be a nice quiet retreat

There is to be no more motorbikes though, space hover style or otherwise. Allow that.

The dissapearing Tardis is so going to become a Thing. I can sense it. It will be like when Pertwee was stuck in the 70s forever and had that shit comedy car to get around in.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 14, 2013)

They never go anywhere important like the birth or death of jesus or to rescue the library at Alexandria or to watch the pyramids being built or to save the Titanic. I'm sure we'd all come up with much better ideas for our first trip in a Tardis.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 14, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> They never go anywhere important like the birth or death of jesus or to rescue the library at Alexandria or to watch the pyramids being built or to save the Titanic. I'm sure we'd all come up with much better ideas for our first trip in a Tardis.


 
Led Zeppelin's 1972 US tour for example.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 14, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> The H.A.D.S. is from Troughton's The Krotons.
> The Great Intelligence is from Troughton's Yeti stories.
> The Ice Warriors are from Troughton. (Not their actual race name, just a nick-name given to them by a minor character in their first story)
> What next from Troughton?


 
One of his sons becomes a series regular?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 14, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> after going to mos eisley and inadvertently waking up a planet sized energy vampire that can only be kept lullabied by young girls with impressive facial scarfication one would assume vegas would be a nice quiet retreat
> 
> There is to be no more motorbikes though, space hover style or otherwise. Allow that.
> 
> The dissapearing Tardis is so going to become a Thing. I can sense it. It will be like when Pertwee was stuck in the 70s forever and had that shit comedy car to get around in.


 
Don't be dissing Bessie!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 14, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> They never go anywhere important like the birth or death of jesus or to rescue the library at Alexandria or to watch the pyramids being built or to save the Titanic. I'm sure we'd all come up with much better ideas for our first trip in a Tardis.


 
Um didn't that get explained way back when (think it might have been Tom Baker's doctor) that certain events are fixed points, and *can't* be changed without causing massive ripples throughout the space-time continuum?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 14, 2013)

thats thepoint of the weeping angels that feed on alt timelines caused by people messing with fixed points


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 14, 2013)

I thought that was not a bad episode at all.  the only bit that spoilt it for me was bad CG face.

i think they should have kept it  helmet on  of  voice from the dark  with  just a hint of a practical effect face in the background

nice mix of aliens/red october/crimson tide


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 14, 2013)

captainmission said:


> Why, if you could go anywhere in time and space, would your second trip in the tardis be to las vegas?....


To see Elvis, obviously.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 14, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> They never go anywhere important like the birth or death of jesus ...


They can only go to real places


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 14, 2013)

A waste of David Warner (and Ser Davos), but not a terrible episode. So far they've all been forgettable rather than rubbish.

I really want to see a proper medieval episode. The closest we've got so far was the Venice story.


----------



## RedDragon (Apr 14, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> ...nice mix of aliens/red october/crimson tide


And when those younger viewers grow-up and watch these films in full there'll be the faint memory of already having 'seen it done' on Dr Who.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 14, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> They never go anywhere important like the birth or death of jesus or to rescue the library at Alexandria or to watch the pyramids being built or to save the Titanic. I'm sure we'd all come up with much better ideas for our first trip in a Tardis.


Fixed points or summat.



Stigmata said:


> A waste of David Warner (and Ser Davos), but not a terrible episode. So far they've all been forgettable rather than rubbish.
> 
> I really want to see a proper medieval episode. The closest we've got so far was the Venice story.


It would have to potential to be a bit:


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 14, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> They can only go to real places


I really don't like it when ignorant people make a mockery of things that are of great importance to other people given the slightest opportunity. Especially in a thread like this one. Land of fiction Innit.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 14, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> I really don't like it when ignorant people make a mockery of things that are of great importance to other people given the slightest opportunity. Especially in a thread like this one. *Land of fiction* Innit.


 
Oh, they've been there. The Mind Robber, innit!


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 14, 2013)

it's such a shamethat troughton suffered the worst from the video wiping

as much as hartnell was the originator i have always believed it was troughton's doctor who really defined the charactor


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 14, 2013)

I quite enjoyed that, I like the old fashioned man-in-a-rubber-suit-quick-run-away type episodes


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 14, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> I really don't like it when ignorant people make a mockery of things that are of great importance to other people given the slightest opportunity. Especially in a thread like this one. Land of fiction Innit.


Who's ignorant in that sentence?


----------



## kittyP (Apr 15, 2013)

Yep, I am with others on here, definitely better than the last 2 episodes.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 19, 2013)

So, am I the only one excited about the 50th anniversary 



Spoiler



return of David Tennant and Billie Piper 


?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2013)

rumours of a three docs special.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 19, 2013)

I really would like to see more of Ecclestone's Doctor.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 19, 2013)

Spoiler



name of the finale and posters for the next 4 eps....


 


Spoiler



http://t.co/G4mdFcDO1e http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/The-Name-of-the-Finale[/spoiler]


http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/The-Name-of-the-Finale[/spoiler]


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2013)

that link doesn't work


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> that link doesn't work


ok il try fixing it


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 19, 2013)

works now , soz about that


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 19, 2013)

Thanks for spoilering it, really don't want to know too much about the future.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 19, 2013)

fixed, but the main spoiler was in spoiler tags,

saying the tag has the name of the finale and next eps without giving them away unless click on the spoiler tag isn't really a spoiler tho is it ?


----------



## kittyP (Apr 19, 2013)

I'm quite excited about the 50th anniversary. 

 As you were.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 19, 2013)

same as  long wait til November tho..


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 19, 2013)

as long as it's got a decent story and none of that mawkishness that RTD and increasingly, Moffat, are prone to.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2013)

Jon Hurt is going to be in it, so it will surely be the dogs bollocks


----------



## kittyP (Apr 19, 2013)

I am re watching the David Tennant episodes now


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 19, 2013)

although I grew up with Tom Baker ( not in a noncy bbc way, although he lived in my village and drove a yellow jag !  ) I actually think David Tennant is the best Dr, Matt Smith is good but there is something that doesn't quite do it for me.

Donna was the best companion as there was no gushing but Im intrigued about Clara ,Oswin ,Oswald or whatev she is


----------



## kittyP (Apr 19, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:
			
		

> although I grew up with Tom Baker ( not in a noncy bbc way, although he lived in my village and drove a yellow jag !  ) I actually think David Tennant is the best Dr, Matt Smith is good but there is something that doesn't quite do it for me.
> 
> Donna was the best companion as there was no gushing but Im intrigued about Clara ,Oswin ,Oswald or whatev she is



Is Donna Catherine Tate? 
She was good as a companion but I find her generally really annoying.


----------



## Greebo (Apr 19, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Is Donna Catherine Tate?
> She was good as a companion but I find her generally really annoying.


She is.  A lovely mobile face for a character actor, but I could quite cheerfully shake her by the throat for so much of her not-that-funny comedy.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 19, 2013)

yeah it was Catherine Tate, but  it was so refreshing to see someone who didn't have much self confidence and didn't pw over the dr like Rose did, and even Martha to a certain extent. The rapport between the 2 of them was great IMO


----------



## Santino (Apr 19, 2013)

The best companion is still Rory.

"Get back in the cupboard, Hitler!"


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 19, 2013)

The best new who companion was rory. Donna second.... fuck i may even put mickey or jack in before amy because she became a fucking self parody after not that long. (wilf doesn't really count as they weren't in it for long enough)

new who has been shit for companions with rose being the nadir. rose is deep in the pits with mel and grace from the tv movie.

new who can't do female companions for shit.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 19, 2013)

I forgot about Rory  so I think I'm going to have to make them 1st equal, I cant make Rory #1 as although he waited for that stroppy amy for 1000 years , he was no dr donna


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 19, 2013)

River song was superb in silence in the library  but  every appearance after that stole a little more of the magic.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Jon Hurt is going to be in it, so it will surely be the dogs bollocks


Kingdom of the Crystal Skull


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 19, 2013)

then it will be a dogs arse


----------



## kittyP (Apr 19, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:
			
		

> Kingdom of the Crystal Skull



Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 19, 2013)

Since Adric, the male companions have had the best of it. Turlough was great. Rory and Jack both did well. Only Mickey lets the side down.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 19, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


We must speak Evil's name, it grows in the shadows and silence


----------



## kittyP (Apr 19, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:
			
		

> We must speak Evil's name, it grows in the shadows and silence



John Hurt should be exempt from this though. 
He has done nowt else wrong (if he had I don't want to know).


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 19, 2013)

He lent his voice to the utterly appealing Ultramarines film but you let him off because he is Jon Hurt


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 19, 2013)

For my fav companion of all time  i'm choosing either ace or the brig.


----------



## Leafster (Apr 20, 2013)

Shouldn't that be pronounced Meta beelis?


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 20, 2013)

Fucskae just missed it, now I have to wait until iPlayer updates.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 20, 2013)

Some of that was well scary! An excellent episode for me.

Dougray Scott would make a good Doctor, I reckon.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 20, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Fucskae just missed it, now I have to wait until iPlayer updates.


 
yes young lady, messaging me when im trying to watch


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 20, 2013)

but tbh its pretty good, and scary for da kids


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 20, 2013)

its up on iplayer already


----------



## T & P (Apr 20, 2013)

Finally a decent episode this series!

Borrowed a bit from Poltergeist, but I won't hold it sgainst it


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 20, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> yes young lady, messaging me when im trying to watch


----------



## Balbi (Apr 20, 2013)

Scary monster, good solid story - it's the first one this series I have been happy with.


----------



## belboid (Apr 20, 2013)

Best of the half series so far quite easily (and I did quite like last weeks. The first two were rubbish tho). The Prof was surely too young to have been a WW2 hero tho.

Yet another mention of the importance of music, and love surviving throughout time. River's back for the finale then.


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 20, 2013)

Big improvement but I don't think whoever produced it had much skill at doing horror. To be really effective you need to hide the ghost / monster as long as possible (Alien is a classic example), not show it right at the beginning.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 20, 2013)

was quite good.  not sure about the bit at the very end

all the clara stuff is a bit annoying


----------



## T & P (Apr 20, 2013)

gnoriac said:


> Big improvement but I don't think whoever produced it had much skill at doing horror. To be really effective you need to hide the ghost / monster as long as possible (Alien is a classic example), not show it right at the beginning.


But was it trying to be a horror story? Dr Who is not meant to be horror, in my eyes at least.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 20, 2013)

Now that's more like it. Went a biiiiiiiiit wayward at the end, but for the most part good old fashioned storytelling.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 20, 2013)

"It's ghost time!"

Loved that bit, great episode.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 20, 2013)

Yes, proper Who at last. Liked that a lot.

And written by the Rings of Akhaten bloke, as well. He can come off the death list now.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 20, 2013)

T & P said:


> But was it trying to be a horror story? Dr Who is not meant to be horror, in my eyes at least.


And it is of course still 'family viewing', so unsure 'Alien' levels of horror would be appropriate - especially in this day and age where everything child oriented seems a lot more softly-softly than it did in our youth.


----------



## Epona (Apr 20, 2013)

I really enjoyed that episode. I did say at a particular point in the show 



Spoiler



"Oi, Doctor, why are you rescuing the pretty woman but not the aesthetically-challenged creature who probably also just wants to get back to where he came from?"


 and was proven right, more or less.

Good episode - not quite a classic, but very enjoyable.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 20, 2013)

gnoriac said:


> Big improvement but I don't think whoever produced it had much skill at doing horror. To be really effective you need to hide the ghost / monster as long as possible (Alien is a classic example), not show it right at the beginning.


You're not going to get horror early saturday evening for a family audience, you're going to get spooky/scary.

"Dr what" - "If you like"


----------



## Balbi (Apr 20, 2013)

The arm around Clara, talking about it being a love story, and then realising and removing his arm - very Doctor.

`


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 20, 2013)

I wasn't surprised when the big bad monster didn't turn out to be quite so bad. I get the feeling it's something of a theme in recent years to ultimately undermine kids fears and say "actually, the scary things aren't necessarily really scary". Kind of a public service for parents


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 20, 2013)

Matt Smith can't pronounce "Metabelis".


----------



## Espresso (Apr 20, 2013)

I thought it was all a bit Scooby Doo tonight. I know they run about a lot in general, in proper Scooby Doo fashion, but the hunting down of ghosts that weren't - surprise surprise - _actually_ ghosts was just one step too far in the Scooby Doo direction for me.
Pesky kids.


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 21, 2013)

I really enjoyed that episode and it had my granddaughter hiding behind a cushion and watching with one eye


----------



## Epona (Apr 21, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> I really enjoyed that episode and it had my granddaughter hiding behind a cushion and watching with one eye


 
Me too


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 21, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Some of that was well scary! An excellent episode for me.
> 
> Dougray Scott would make a good Doctor, I reckon.


I vote for David Warner.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Apr 21, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> Matt Smith can't pronounce "Metabelis".


Glad I wasn't the only person to spot that. It's only been 39 years


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 21, 2013)

I thought it was bollocks. The storys have just become backdrops for more boring wibble about the doctors relationships with his companions. Its Dr Who - and that should mean some sort of nasty thing or things with a nasty plan that is thwarted by the doctor by him being clever.


----------



## mentalchik (Apr 21, 2013)

Quite enjoyed that episode......

did remind me of a lot of scenes in Poltergeist though


----------



## captainmission (Apr 21, 2013)

good to see the tardis also dislikes jenna louise coleman. They should have bought the trapped time traveller along for a while, it seems a bit cruel not to. 

And the earth being 6 billion years old? Is there some old episode that accounts for earth missing 1.5 billion years? Or is it just the writers not being able to use google?


----------



## golightly (Apr 21, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> Matt Smith can't pronounce "Metabelis".


 
Yeah, that made me laugh.  I'm enjoying the regular references to previous Dr Who adventures, mind you.  It's a clever way of maintaining a link with us longer standing Dr Who fans.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 21, 2013)

captainmission said:


> good to see the tardis also dislikes jenna louise coleman. They should have bought the trapped time traveller along for a while, it seems a bit cruel not to.
> 
> And the earth being 6 billion years old? Is there some old episode that accounts for earth missing 1.5 billion years? Or is it just the writers not being able to use google?


 
I think they were saying the earth will exist for 6 billion years in total. So we've got another 1.5 billion left.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 21, 2013)

Matt Smith swivels around on the balls of his feet with one finger pointing skyward waaay too often IMO.


----------



## captainmission (Apr 21, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> I think they were saying the earth will exist for 6 billion years in total. So we've got another 1.5 billion left.


 
Just checked. He says "we're six billion years ago" after having set off from the 19...whatever year the episode was set in.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 21, 2013)

captainmission said:


> Just checked. He says "we're six billion years ago" after having set off from the 19...whatever year the episode was set in.


Silly anyway, even with a time machine you are only ever 'now'.


----------



## captainmission (Apr 21, 2013)

but still nothing makes me madder than minor scientific inaccuracies in the show about a time travelling magic wizard


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 21, 2013)

just watcched it, really liked it. scary for kids... i thought the middle part flagged a bit, but the setup was excellent and the ending satisfying.

next week for the long-anticipated tardis-exploration episode, then?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 21, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> next week for the long-anticipated tardis-exploration episode, then?


----------



## belboid (Apr 21, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> Matt Smith can't pronounce "Metabelis".


He can, you know. But, rather like assistants becoming companions, the pronunciation of place names has also changed since the seventies. Peking has become Beijing, and the Doc is doing the decent thing by Metabelis, and pronouncing it properly.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 21, 2013)

missed this last night. Will watch  tonight instead


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 21, 2013)

I liked the joke about Clara being a massive egotist. You'd never have had that with Rose


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 21, 2013)

So what will be next week's Classic Who reference of the week?


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 21, 2013)

The blue crystal worn on the woman's forehead reminded me of Davros


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 21, 2013)

A blue crustal from Metabelis 3 featured in The Green Death broadcast in 1973 and was a major plot device in Planet Of The Spiders in 1974 which was when this episode was set (though not the same month). The two crystals look different but they're not supposed to be the same one.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 22, 2013)

I liked that episode. Best of the series so far.


----------



## Pingu (Apr 22, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I liked that episode. Best of the series so far.


 
yeah my thoughts too.

cant decide if I like clara or not. she is easy on the eye but so far she has just been wallpaper. not really done anything substantial and is a bit irritating


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 22, 2013)

Pingu said:


> cant decide if I like clara or not. she is easy on the eye but so far she has just been wallpaper. not really done anything substantial and is a bit irritating


She is.  I like the idea of her being conceited and the Tardis not liking her.  But I found her delivery of the "Ghostbusters" line at the top of the episode annoying. It's a line I'd have allowed from Rose or Amy, but from Clara it was cringe-inducing.  Corny is fine from some people, but irritating from others.


----------



## prunus (Apr 22, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> I really enjoyed that episode and* it had my granddaughter hiding behind a cushion and watching with one eye*


 
Then it has acheived its aim and any griping and carping we adults do about it on here is moot, frankly


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 22, 2013)

The way that monster in the woods (and of course the other one in the house) moved - Silent Hill as fuck. Shit me up about as much as I ever get shit up at my age  but I was mildly irritated that the "monsters" were just lonely etc etc at the end. I demand we have some monsters that are not even explained let alone made all fluffy.

I too am torn on Clara. Her character's story is interesting but she's a bit irritatingly perky. I hope it's all a front and there are massive depths of heartbreak under her perkiness.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 22, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> just watcched it, really liked it. scary for kids... i thought the middle part flagged a bit, but the setup was excellent and the ending satisfying.
> 
> next week for the long-anticipated tardis-exploration episode, then?


 
I'm sure I remember seeing more of the TARDIS during the Tom Baker era. That second flight control room for starters and didn't the Sontarans end up in the bowels of the ship, or did I imagine all that?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 22, 2013)

S☼I said:


> I demand we have some monsters that are not even explained


I was actually hoping that would be the case in this one. Liked the idea that the Doctor didn't know what it was, and no-one ever finds out.


----------



## belboid (Apr 22, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> She is. I like the idea of her being conceited and the Tardis not liking her. But I found her delivery of the "Ghostbusters" line at the top of the episode annoying. It's a line I'd have allowed from Rose or Amy, but from Clara it was cringe-inducing. Corny is fine from some people, but irritating from others.


that one was the first episode she filmed as the companion, so she probly deserves a little slack for not having quite got it all quite right yet


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 22, 2013)

So, the TARDIS doesn't like her, and she's seemingly died several times.
She's Galifreyan.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 22, 2013)

but she is born and dies.   not exactly giant explosion of yellow light  usually  applied

probably some more timeywhimy  not really explained at all bollocks

like the crack and the silence.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 22, 2013)

The crack was explained, the silence will, I hope, be addressed in the 50th anniversary


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 22, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> that one was the first episode she filmed as the companion, so she probly deserves a little slack for not having quite got it all quite right yet



She's too young for you.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 22, 2013)

i didn't feel it was properly explained. there was lots of hand waving and shouting  explotion etc  but  no real  good explanation of why and what  and how  because  it's all bollocks really

it's not really sci-fi anymore it's science fantasy.    it's not star trek but star wars.    it used to have a foot in each camp but  now it all seems totally plot convenience fairy.   
the emphasis on the overarching plot is a bit part of the problem.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 22, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> The crack was explained, the silence will, I hope, be addressed in the 50th anniversary


The crack was vaguely explained but its connection to the Silence wasn't explained. The Silence haven;t been fully explained yet either even ignoring that.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 22, 2013)

krtek a houby said:


> I'm sure I remember seeing more of the TARDIS during the Tom Baker era. That second flight control room for starters and didn't the Sontarans end up in the bowels of the ship, or did I imagine all that?


The Hand Of Fear and The Invasion Of Time respectively.

And the "Silence will fall!" voice has never been explained. I think they've moved on and quietly forgotten about that.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 22, 2013)

I asked Stephen Moffat what the crack was, all he did was engage me in small talk for an hour


----------



## belboid (Apr 22, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> And the "Silence will fall!" voice has never been explained. I think they've moved on and quietly forgotten about that.


this season finale, fer sure.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 22, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> So, the TARDIS doesn't like her, and she's seemingly died several times.
> She's Galifreyan.


 The Rani?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 22, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> but she is born and dies. not exactly giant explosion of yellow light usually applied
> 
> probably some more timeywhimy not really explained at all bollocks
> 
> like the crack and the silence.


 
Maybe she finds ejaculating golden fire from every orifice distateful?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 22, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> She is. I like the idea of her being conceited and the Tardis not liking her. But I found her delivery of the "Ghostbusters" line at the top of the episode annoying. It's a line I'd have allowed from Rose or Amy, but from Clara it was cringe-inducing. Corny is fine from some people, but irritating from others.


Just watched this and I agree 100% It was like a blue peter presenter reading the line. Then her look back at the doctor. Ugh.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 22, 2013)

krtek a houby said:


> I'm sure I remember seeing more of the TARDIS during the Tom Baker era. That second flight control room for starters and didn't the Sontarans end up in the bowels of the ship, or did I imagine all that?


 
Peter Davison did quite a bit of walking around the tardis.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 22, 2013)

krtek a houby said:


> The Rani?


 
I think Clara's the offspring of some relict Galifreyan who deliberately dodged the Time War, not The Rani. The Doctor and the Master weren't the only Galifreyans to go walkabout with a TARDIS, by a long chalk, and one or other of them is likely to have left a few by-blows around.


----------



## belboid (Apr 22, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> She's too young for you.


nonsense - she's at least 140


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 22, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Peter Davison did quite a bit of walking around the tardis.


Tom Baker spent some time in the cloister room in logopolis. Davidson spent too long hanging around adrics bedroom for my liking.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 22, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> The Hand Of Fear and The Invasion Of Time respectively.


Was the swimming pool in the the Invasion of Time? I know the medical ward was.

The promo for the next episode looked crap, but that might be a good thing. The adventure set in the Tardis has been proposed for so long that I don't really see how it can live up to what people are hoping.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 23, 2013)

Edge Of Destruction. Hartnell 2-parter set entirely in the Tardis that followed the original Dalek story as a filler while they built the sets for the Marco Polo story that followed.

Yes, the Invasion Of Time showed the swimming pool.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 24, 2013)

ok its mid-week and nearly time for what I personally hope to be one of the best episodes in a while, although last weeks ep was good, ive not been impressed with s7b.

so 



Spoiler



its called ' Journey to the centre of the tardis , and this is the US trailer


with a few more scenes than the uk.





fingers x-ed...  I've got a whole load of teasers that il put up only if you want me to ( in spoiler code of course )

Christ im on full on geek mode today


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 24, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> ok its mid-week and nearly time for what I personally hope to be one of the best episodes in a while, although last weeks ep was good, ive not been impressed with s7b.
> 
> so
> 
> ...



Lol aren't you just.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 24, 2013)

it's your bloody fault


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 25, 2013)

Couple of interesting things to read for the disaffected:

http://stfu-moffat.tumblr.com/post/30991164205/how-moffat-ruined-doctor-who-for-my-little-sister

http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/04/breaking-up-with-doctor-who


----------



## ginger_syn (Apr 26, 2013)

after reading that I do feel a little sad for them but mostly I think I'm really enjoying Dr Who  at the moment so tough, get over it.

Also it's stuff like that's put me off joining any DW forums I won't name names, but some of them have posters who seem quite insane to my completely unqualified point of view


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 26, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> Also it's stuff like that's put me off joining any DW forums I won't name names, but some of them have posters who seem quite insane to my completely unqualified point of view


 
It's fair to say that some Doctor Who fans are rather, err, _over-invested_ in their fandom.


----------



## Epona (Apr 27, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Couple of interesting things to read for the disaffected:
> 
> http://stfu-moffat.tumblr.com/post/30991164205/how-moffat-ruined-doctor-who-for-my-little-sister
> 
> http://www.tor.com/blogs/2013/04/breaking-up-with-doctor-who


 
As much as I still love Doctor Who, I can see the point of those articles, especially the first one - Moffat has not done a great job so far with regard to the female characters, but he's been doing it a relatively short amount of time so I'll give him a bit longer to turn it around. I do like most other aspects of the show whilst he's been doing it (although I wouldn't mind seeing a story drawn out over more than one episode, but that's probably not down to him).


----------



## Kuso (Apr 27, 2013)

used to get really excited round about now on a Saturday, now it's more like trepidation


----------



## Balbi (Apr 27, 2013)

Superman II reset. Bah.


----------



## Kuso (Apr 27, 2013)

I quite enjoyed that! may have been the spliff though  Is that whats been missing from this series?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 27, 2013)

Kuso said:


> used to get really excited round about now on a Saturday, now it's more like trepidation


Same here. Recording it tonight and tbh I am a bit meh about watching it


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 27, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Superman II reset. Bah.


 
That aside*, though, lots of running in corridors and a nice tour of the Tardis. Not too bad.

E2A: and also the first point that VP will make below.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 27, 2013)

So, that would have been a pretty good episode were it not bookended by two really, really shit things:

1) since when does the doctor resort to kidnapping, blackmail and threats of death (even if that threat turned out to be a lie) in order to get what he wants? The doctor isn't like that. Very, very disappointing. My first thought during the opening parts was, "So the doctor is the baddie this week?"

2) how many times is he going to reset time (or something similar) before we get utterly fed up with this shit? "Oh it's okay, it doesn't matter what happens, I don't need the writers to have put together a really interesting and clever plot because I have a big reset button, I have lots of them, I can always reset something and make it all go away."


----------



## Balbi (Apr 27, 2013)

1) Since whenever. The Doctor lies. He's not human, he's not nice.

2) Moffat's been quite easy on the deus ex.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 27, 2013)

I'm not really getting the Rumpelstiltskin bit. It will be difficult to make it interesting and important.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 27, 2013)

hmm , was really enjoying it , nice and tense , library , voices and other bits im sure id see on a re-watch . BUT reset time again, really ?

Pretty much made me MoL , meh out loud or summat


----------



## Pingu (Apr 27, 2013)

not really feeling this series yet tbh. it needs a are you my mummy or weeping angels type episode to save it


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 27, 2013)

Balbi said:


> 1) Since whenever. The Doctor lies. He's not human, he's not nice.
> 
> 2) Moffat's been quite easy on the deus ex.


 
Some plagiarist on the Guardian site has been stealing all your lines. StarboardBalbi or somesuch.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 27, 2013)

That sneaky fucking bastard


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 27, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> So, that would have been a pretty good episode were it not bookended by two really, really shit things:
> 
> 1) since when does the doctor resort to kidnapping, blackmail and threats of death (even if that threat turned out to be a lie) in order to get what he wants? The doctor isn't like that. Very, very disappointing. My first thought during the opening parts was, "So the doctor is the baddie this week?"


 
You seem to be mistaking The Doctor for a nice human. He's neither.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 27, 2013)

I enjoyed that.


----------



## pigtails (Apr 27, 2013)

It was definitely better than a lot of the recent ones but was a bit disappointed by the whole press this button and everything is sorted malarky.


----------



## Helen Back (Apr 27, 2013)

That bloody crack again.


----------



## Quartz (Apr 27, 2013)

I'm not sure whether it was filler or foreshadowing.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2013)

Quartz said:
			
		

> I'm not sure whether it was filler or foreshadowing.


What sort of filler would you use in a crack like that?


----------



## pigtails (Apr 28, 2013)

Caulk.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 28, 2013)

thinbg is , I thought it was excellent until that point, scary clara monsters , confrontation , lots of little nods to the past , then they have to go and do that , im disappointed and worrying that ive been looking ast dr who forums too much ( but never post, them some seriously fukked people in there sith no life.... oh wait.... )


----------



## 8115 (Apr 28, 2013)




----------



## Epona (Apr 28, 2013)

pigtails said:


> It was definitely better than a lot of the recent ones but was a bit disappointed by the whole press this button and everything is sorted malarky.


 
Aye, I'm getting a bit fed up of the constant use of deus ex machina type plot resolution.  It's OK and excusable once in a while, but it's being overused this season and is a bit lazy in terms of writing.


----------



## Pingu (Apr 28, 2013)

and put the screwdriver away ffs.


----------



## Epona (Apr 28, 2013)

Pingu said:


> and put the screwdriver away ffs.


 
It does loads of things that it never used to do 

To clarify my previous post, I believe that it is more engaging to the viewer if they are potentially able to piece together the resolution of any "protagonist in peril" type plot, or at least to be able to say "ah yes I should have spotted that possibility" after the event. Clues in dialogue, characters, props, scenery etc. allowing the viewer to feel involved in working out a possible solution rather than just being a passenger on the special effects bus with a 'press the button' ending. The last few episodes have felt a bit like one of those unsatisfactory 'whodunnits' where the murderer only shows up in the last scene, not having been previously introduced, and thus the reader/viewer is denied a chance of working out what is going on, and how to fix it, before the denouement.

I know it's a show for kids, but even so the same rules ought to apply (but perhaps with less subtle clues to account for and entertain a younger audience) - a better resolution would have involved doing something major with the glowy circuit thing that the salvage guy nicked, which it turned out wasn't that important. But good writing would mean the clues to the resolution would be present before the ending, so that the viewer can have some involvement in the story. Sadly this was not the case this episode, when I am sure with a bit more imaginative writing, it could have been.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 28, 2013)

Epona said:


> It does loads of things that it never used to do
> 
> To clarify my previous post, I believe that it is more engaging to the viewer if they are potentially able to piece together the resolution of any "protagonist in peril" type plot, or at least to be able to say "ah yes I should have spotted that possibility" after the event. Clues in dialogue, characters, props, scenery etc. allowing the viewer to feel involved in working out a possible solution rather than just being a passenger on the special effects bus with a 'press the button' ending. The last few episodes have felt a bit like one of those unsatisfactory 'whodunnits' where the murderer only shows up in the last scene, not having been previously introduced, and thus the reader/viewer is denied a chance of working out what is going on, and how to fix it, before the denouement.
> 
> I know it's a show for kids, but even so the same rules ought to apply (but perhaps with less subtle clues to account for and entertain a younger audience) - a better resolution would have involved doing something major with the glowy circuit thing that the salvage guy nicked, which it turned out wasn't that important. But good writing would mean the clues to the resolution would be present before the ending, so that the viewer can have some involvement in the story. Sadly this was not the case this episode, when I am sure with a bit more imaginative writing, it could have been.


yes, yes, yes.  like the resolution to 'blink'.  i was scared, i had no idea how they were going to escape...  and then they used the qualities of both the angels and the tardis that we all knew about from the start, and caused a simple, logical, satisfying defeat.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 28, 2013)

I think what is annoying is that it could be good. It is just so badly written now and the errors are obvious.
I think Smith could be a great doctor but he hasn't had a good story and he is being written as an arsehole.


----------



## BigTom (Apr 28, 2013)

Epona said:


> It does loads of things that it never used to do
> 
> To clarify my previous post, I believe that it is more engaging to the viewer if they are potentially able to piece together the resolution of any "protagonist in peril" type plot, or at least to be able to say "ah yes I should have spotted that possibility" after the event. Clues in dialogue, characters, props, scenery etc. allowing the viewer to feel involved in working out a possible solution rather than just being a passenger on the special effects bus with a 'press the button' ending. The last few episodes have felt a bit like one of those unsatisfactory 'whodunnits' where the murderer only shows up in the last scene, not having been previously introduced, and thus the reader/viewer is denied a chance of working out what is going on, and how to fix it, before the denouement.
> 
> I know it's a show for kids, but even so the same rules ought to apply (but perhaps with less subtle clues to account for and entertain a younger audience) - a better resolution would have involved doing something major with the glowy circuit thing that the salvage guy nicked, which it turned out wasn't that important. But good writing would mean the clues to the resolution would be present before the ending, so that the viewer can have some involvement in the story. Sadly this was not the case this episode, when I am sure with a bit more imaginative writing, it could have been.


 
There were clues to the ending beforehand though - we knew that time was leaking as a result of the tardis crash, and that this was creating echoes of the past and future into the present; they hinted that the doctor could reach through these leaks when he pulled Clara out of the echo control room. The problem is that it wasn't well written and that the resolution was just a big fucking reset. It wasn't quite deus ex machina but because it was a reset it feels like it.

edit: I reckon a better ending would have been to have had the doctor reach back through the time leaks to get the earlier doctor to leave whatever those shields were on so that the tardis didn't get fucked by the magneto-beam thing, and finished the episode with them coming out of the tardis on the salvage ship and greeting the salvage team, with the next episode starting from there taking place on the salvage ship.
It would still have been a reset though, but at least one which would have left some intrigue into the next episode.. which you'd hopefully write to relate to this one in some way.


----------



## Pingu (Apr 28, 2013)

OK here you go. straight from the horses gob. the prime target audience for the show - a 9 year old boy.

"Dr Who isn't very good at the moment Uncle Pingu"

so there you have it.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 28, 2013)

Wasn't too bad, could have been even more claustrophbic and eerie and I felt a lot was rushed into one 45 min ep but still, this and the last 2 have been acceptable.


----------



## spirals (Apr 28, 2013)

I have been disappointed in this series but boychild (nearly 8) absolutely loves it. I think it's more of a kids show than a family one now.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 28, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I think what is annoying is that it could be good. It is just so badly written now and the errors are obvious.
> I think Smith could be a great doctor but he hasn't had a good story and he is being written as an arsehole.



I have to agree with you here - who in hell has a time/space machine that isn't magnetically shielded.


----------



## Meh O'Naise (Apr 28, 2013)

Its' only Doctor Who. Nothing Important.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 28, 2013)

Meh O'Naise said:


> Its' only Doctor Who. Nothing Important.


  Not in the grand schemey weemey of things but this _is_ a thread devoted (not slavishly) to the programme...


----------



## Meh O'Naise (Apr 28, 2013)

krtek a houby said:


> Not in the grand schemey weemey of things but this _is_ a thread devoted (not slavishly) to the programme...


 
Oh, yeah. It is. *ahem* That said, I really liked the Chris Eccleston season...after that I feel its squandered its potential. Rather than its potential to be epic (Incidentally, "Dalek" is a fantastic episode) its gone small scale / monster of the week territory. I stopped watching a few episodes into the Tennant era ; a  great doctor, but seriously, from S2 onwards It's turned into everything it used to be derided for. Nowadays, I just consider it to be Cbeebies on prime time designed for 9-12 year olds.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 28, 2013)

Meh O'Naise said:


> Oh, yeah. It is. *ahem* That said, I really liked the Chris Eccleston season...after that I feel its squandered its potential. Rather than its potential to be epic (Incidentally, "Dalek" is a fantastic episode) its gone small scale / monster of the week territory. I stopped watching a few episodes into the Tennant era ; a great doctor, but seriously, from S2 onwards It's turned into everything it used to be derided for. Nowadays, I just consider it to be Cbeebies on prime time designed for 9-12 year olds.


 
I loved the Ecclestone season but I still think there were lots of crackers after that. A lot of dross as well but I've been watching since 1974, so I'm in it for the long haul


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 28, 2013)

OK, just watched Saturdays episode and I'm tired. Can someone explain wtf happened, coz it didn't make any sense.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 28, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> OK, just watched Saturdays episode and I'm tired. Can someone explain wtf happened, coz it didn't make any sense.


I'll give it a go.



Spoiler



Clara died right at the beginning because for some reason the Tardis doesn't have decent magnetic shielding - those were her feet sticking out of the rubble. The Clara we see in the rest of the episode is an echo, due to the fact that the Tardis also suffered catastrophic engine failure at the moment of the crash.

The magnetic field came from a salvage vessel crewed by a family of East Enders extras brothers who inherited their ship from their dad. Two of the brothers are cunts to their other brother who had an accident where he lost his memory, when he came round they told him he was an android and have been making him do all the housekeeping since. He believes them because he has bionic eyes so everything from his pov _looks_ like he might be a robot.

During the episode Clara sees more of the Tardis and once the Dr has conned the brothers into help look for her so do they.

At the end the Dr realises that she has been dead the whole time but luckily finds a crack in time that looks awfully familiar, but in fact turns out to be a handy plot loophole that enables him to throw his past self a 'magic button'  that will reset everything to before the crash, thus saving Clara, stopping the Tardis from exploding, saving everyone etc. This means that the various discoveries made by people during the episode are forgotten. Clara forgets reading The History of The Time War and the Dr's real name. The brother who isn't an android forgets that he's human.

The people in rubber suits are_ the future_. *spooky noises*


 
HTH


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 29, 2013)

Pretty poor episode. 

Like others I thought the resolution was pat and I don't think the characters of the salvage crew where particularly well drawn but the biggest problem was the rubbish sets.    

Considering that the TARDIS is infinite an awful lot of it seems to be made up of rather boring generic spaceship hallways. I know part of the reason would have been budget constraints but I thought the refusal to show off the TARDIS showed a failure of imagination. They should have taken more inspiration from _The Invasion of Time _where the Doctor takes the Sontarans through a range of rooms/architectures.


----------



## kittyP (Apr 29, 2013)

It was better than I thought it was going to be.


----------



## Santino (Apr 29, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> I'll give it a go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler



Clara wasn't dead to begin with. She was due to die in the hot room, thus turning her into one of those burny zombies.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 29, 2013)

My little boy has watched the last two episodes in complete silence (no pun intended) with a look of mild fear on his face, poor thing. So I think at least the scares for kids are still working a treat.

I enjoyed it too


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 29, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> Pretty poor episode.
> 
> Like others I thought the resolution was pat and I don't think the characters of the salvage crew where particularly well drawn but the biggest problem was the rubbish sets.
> 
> Considering that the TARDIS is infinite an awful lot of it seems to be made up of rather boring generic spaceship hallways. I know part of the reason would have been budget constraints but I thought the refusal to show off the TARDIS showed a failure of imagination. *They should have taken more inspiration from The Invasion of Time where the Doctor takes the Sontarans through a range of rooms/architectures*.


 
You glimpsed the swimming pool, got to see a library & a mediaval style room with a cot? Wasn't too bad a viewing, in the 45 minutes given. I've had far worse from Foxtons...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 29, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> I'll give it a go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nope, still confused. What were the zombies? Why couldn't those guys touch each other? Why did they turn into a zombie?

This series has been shite so far. The submarine episode was ok, the rest... Nah.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 29, 2013)

Pingu said:


> and put the screwdriver away ffs.


 
The episode where he was basically just doing a Harry Potter magic wand battle with the evil robots was fucking absurd.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Nope, still confused. What were the zombies? Why couldn't those guys touch each other? Why did they turn into a zombie?
> 
> This series has been shite so far. The submarine episode was ok, the rest... Nah.


It says at the bottom of my post, last line.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 29, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> I'll give it a go.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
If Clara was already dead, how could she have a future self that had turned into a zombie?


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> If Clara was already dead, how could she have a future self that had turned into a zombie?


Echoes.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 29, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Echoes.


 
That's not writing, it's just throwing good words after bad


----------



## Santino (Apr 29, 2013)

Clara wasn't dead!


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Apr 29, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Nope, still confused. What were the zombies? Why couldn't those guys touch each other? Why did they turn into a zombie?
> 
> This series has been shite so far. The submarine episode was ok, the rest... Nah.


 
The zombies were something to do with being in the engine room of the Tardis.  Smith had already said summat like "we've got 1 minute maximum in there" - presumably a mixture of heat, radiation and some other made up bollocks resulted in some mutation bollocks.  Or something.

The Doctor was trying to stop the 2 brothers from touching each other because their future echoey zombie selves were fused together.  No touching, no fusing, future averted.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 29, 2013)

Santino said:


> Clara wasn't dead!


 Which Clara, though?


----------



## Pingu (Apr 29, 2013)

krtek a houby said:


> Which Clara, though?


 
tbh at the moment I don't really care


----------



## dessiato (Apr 29, 2013)

The thing for me is that this series has only one major intrigue, who/what is Clara? In this episode she seemed to be saying she is "just Clara" but if that is the case then the previous incarnations of her are wasted opportunities for suspense and intrigue.

The cot @krtek a houby is the Dr's from a much earlier episode with Amy, Rory and River in it.

eta Why's my post come up with bold?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 29, 2013)

dessiato said:


> eta Why's my post come up with bold?


You are fundamental to the Universe, and possibly the next assistant companion.

_You will knock four times, Twice Dead Dessiato Cascade._

BAD WOLF/CRACK IN TIME/TORCHWOOD/DR DONNA/MR SAXON


----------



## dessiato (Apr 29, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> You are fundamental to the Universe, and possibly the next assistant companion.
> 
> _You will knock four times, Twice Dead Dessiato Cascade._
> 
> BAD WOLF/CRACK IN TIME/TORCHWOOD/DR DONNA/MR SAXON


Can I be River's assistant/companion? She's rather attractive.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2013)

Watched it again last night, and was a bit surprised top see it all made perfect sense, and involved no sudden discovery of a reset button that'd make it all right. All of the ending was actually neatly set up right at the beginning, and all of timey wimey folding back in on itself as the time machine decayed followed quite logically.

It should probably have been a series cliffhanger, so they could have done it all a bit bolder and a bit bigger, some of it seemed rather under-rehearsed (not completely convinced by JLC's timing at the moment), but there were many interesting little hints at what is to come.  Trying to wrap up three or four seasons of loose ends must get in the way of the (episodic) storytelling a fair bit.

And Clara has lost her gran (I saw in a preview bit to _Bells of St John_ that i dont think I'd seen before).  Hmm, that's gotta come back and be significant...


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2013)

Santino said:


> Clara wasn't dead!


She was already dead, pretty sure he said it and everything!


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> She was already dead, pretty sure he said it and everything!


She was both dead and not dead.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 29, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> She was already dead, pretty sure he said it and everything!


 
No, she was dead in the future from not being able to get out of the Eye of Harmony room - and the echo of her dead self from the future, as well as that of dead doctor (with burny facepalm) and dead brothers welded together had leaked from the future moment of their burning. If burny Clara had touched real Clara in the Eye of Harmony room, or burny Doctor touched real Doctor, time would have reasserted itself with the future echoes vanishing as Clara and the Doctor became them. In the same way the brothers killed their future selves by chucking them into the hot stuff, but due to contact then became that monster.

And because of the timeleak, it wasn't a closed loop - so once the brothers became the monster, they wouldn't necessarily follow the path they had earlier in the episode etc. Not that it mattered because the TARDIS was ready to go boom, and you can fuck about with causality in that situation, like they did.

So, Clara would be dead if the Doctor couldn't get out of the Eye of Harmony room - all of them would have been. Future echoes.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2013)

Balbi said:


> No, she was dead in the future from not being able to get out of the Eye of Harmony room - and the echo of her dead self from the future, as well as that of dead doctor (with burny facepalm) and dead brothers welded together had leaked from the future moment of their burning. If burny Clara had touched real Clara in the Eye of Harmony room, or burny Doctor touched real Doctor, time would have reasserted itself with the future echoes vanishing as Clara and the Doctor became them. In the same way the brothers killed their future selves by chucking them into the hot stuff, but due to contact then became that monster.
> 
> And because of the timeleak, it wasn't a closed loop - so once the brothers became the monster, they wouldn't necessarily follow the path they had earlier in the episode etc. Not that it mattered because the TARDIS was ready to go boom, and you can fuck about with causality in that situation, like they did.
> 
> So, Clara would be dead if the Doctor couldn't get out of the Eye of Harmony room - all of them would have been. Future echoes.


Who's feet were they under the Tardis then?


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Who's feet were they under the Tardis then?


Clara's (the sassy witch from the north)


----------



## Corax (Apr 29, 2013)

Thread title is wrong.  It's Monday today.  Dr Who's on Saturday.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2013)

belboid said:


> Clara's (the sassy witch from the north)


So why are you arguing with my point that they were her feet and that she was dead the whole time?


----------



## Balbi (Apr 29, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Who's feet were they under the Tardis then?


 
The Doctor!  He was outside, the doors didn't open - Clara was inside.

The robot eyes chap saw boots and trousers. Clara's wearing a dress


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> So why are you arguing with my point that they were her feet and that she was dead the whole time?


cos i thought she was alive and dead, timey wimey nonsense.  But I think Balbi is probably right after all...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 29, 2013)

belboid said:


> She was both dead and not dead.


 
Schroedinger's Clara.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 29, 2013)

So whos were the feet outside the TARDIS at the beginning when the brother did the scan? They cant have been Claras as apparently she died inside the TARDIS and was one of those firey zombies.


----------



## Corax (Apr 29, 2013)

AverageJoe said:


> So whos were the feet outside the TARDIS at the beginning when the brother did the scan? They cant have been Claras as apparently she died inside the TARDIS and was one of those firey zombies.


The Doctor's I think.


----------



## AverageJoe (Apr 29, 2013)

But if they were the Drs wouldnt he have been dead, hence necessatating a regeneration?


----------



## kittyP (Apr 29, 2013)

krtek a houby said:
			
		

> . I've had far worse from Foxtons...



Tbf that means fuck all


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2013)

They were both both dead and alive, because time was folding back in on itself because of the crash.  We had to wait for time to re-assert itself, and to see which version of time came 'true'


----------



## kittyP (Apr 29, 2013)

dessiato said:
			
		

> Can I be River's assistant/companion? She's rather attractive.



Moll Flanders


----------



## Santino (Apr 29, 2013)

belboid said:


> They were both both dead and alive, because time was folding back in on itself because of the crash.  We had to wait for time to re-assert itself, and to see which version of time came 'true'


Neither of them were dead.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2013)

Santino said:


> Neither of them were dead.


They were both dead. And both alive.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2013)

Moffat has been allocated an Executive Producer to hold his hand. Brian Minchin.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 30, 2013)

Balbi said:


> No, she was dead in the future from not being able to get out of the Eye of Harmony room - and the echo of her dead self from the future, as well as that of dead doctor (with burny facepalm) and dead brothers welded together had leaked from the future moment of their burning. If burny Clara had touched real Clara in the Eye of Harmony room, or burny Doctor touched real Doctor, time would have reasserted itself with the future echoes vanishing as Clara and the Doctor became them. In the same way the brothers killed their future selves by chucking them into the hot stuff, but due to contact then became that monster.
> 
> And because of the timeleak, it wasn't a closed loop - so once the brothers became the monster, they wouldn't necessarily follow the path they had earlier in the episode etc. Not that it mattered because the TARDIS was ready to go boom, and you can fuck about with causality in that situation, like they did.
> 
> So, Clara would be dead if the Doctor couldn't get out of the Eye of Harmony room - all of them would have been. Future echoes.


That makes my head hurt. It's also why this series is shit.

Just give us running away from blokes in rubber suits ffs, get rid of all this trying to be clever bollocks.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 30, 2013)

I like the clever bollocks. But then again, I liked Primer.


----------



## ginger_syn (May 1, 2013)

I thought that was a little gem of an episode, the big friendly button made me laugh and think of forums,and the library just made me think I Want.  I'm really enjoying the series so far.


----------



## kabbes (May 1, 2013)

Why do people keep insisting that Doctor Who is "a kids' show, for kids"?
Have the BBC made an announcement of their target audience of which I am unaware? I thought they were making a flagship show for the whole family to put in a prime TV slot. That's certainly the impression they give, with their wall-to-wall promotion of it.

I don't think it is _supposed_ to be a kids' show. Dismissing its more stupid plot and dialogue errors by saying it is "just a kids' show" is giving the writers a free pass to shittyness that I don't think they are warranted.

Just because something has sci-fi or fantastical elements in it, doesn't mean it has to be purely for kids. It's no more a "kids' show" than any other piece of prime-time Saturday evening telly is. Less so, in fact, than many.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 1, 2013)

But would the Doctor keep a big book with his most guarded secret in it on a big pedestal in his library for stray companions to stumble across?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> But would the Doctor keep a big book with his most guarded secret in it on a big pedestal in his library for stray companions to stumble across?


 
The Doctor lies.


----------



## belboid (May 1, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> But would the Doctor keep a big book with his most guarded secret in it on a big pedestal in his library for stray companions to stumble across?


Interestingly, we could read the title.  And the Tardis doesn't translate Galifreyan, so it must have been written by a non-time lord.

Okay, not that interestingly.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2013)

At least moderately interesting and approaching fairly so.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 1, 2013)

belboid said:


> Interestingly, we could read the title. And the Tardis doesn't translate Galifreyan, so it must have been written by a non-time lord.
> 
> Okay, not that interestingly.


 
Well unless the Doc wrote it himself, it couldn't have been written by a time lord on account of them all dying at the end.


----------



## belboid (May 1, 2013)

Except the other ones that didnt.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2013)

kabbes said:
			
		

> Why do people keep insisting that Doctor Who is "a kids' show, for kids"?


In order to sneer at those of us who enjoy it. 

It is, however, a family programme and always has been. And I wouldn't want it to be anything else.


----------



## Santino (May 1, 2013)

belboid said:


> Except the other ones that didnt.


Name two.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2013)

Timothy Dalton's appearance as Rassilon was pre-time war in some complicated way, wasn't it?


----------



## joustmaster (May 1, 2013)

kabbes said:


> Why do people keep insisting that Doctor Who is "a kids' show, for kids"?
> Have the BBC made an announcement of their target audience of which I am unaware? I thought they were making a flagship show for the whole family to put in a prime TV slot. That's certainly the impression they give, with their wall-to-wall promotion of it.
> 
> I don't think it is _supposed_ to be a kids' show. Dismissing its more stupid plot and dialogue errors by saying it is "just a kids' show" is giving the writers a free pass to shittyness that I don't think they are warranted.
> ...


I described it's a a kids show recently. Mostly because it seems less 'doctor who' and more 'Sarah Jane adventures' these days. 

The theme tune sums that up perfectly for me.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2013)

Santino said:
			
		

> Name two.



The Doctor's Daughter. She's still out there in her jaunty launch. And the Master: we were left with the distinct impression he wasn't over.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:
			
		

> Well unless the Doc wrote it .


Or River Song. Or the Tardis.


----------



## CNT36 (May 2, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Timothy Dalton's appearance as Rassilon was pre-time war in some complicated way, wasn't it?


It was the last day of the time war and they were looking for a way to escape. They were getting all jittery because the (eighth?) doctor was about to wipe them out. They then realised the master would somehow survive so put the drumbeat in his head in order to escape themselves.


----------



## Santino (May 2, 2013)

Neither the Doctor's Daughter nor River _survived_ the Time War, as they were born after* it happened. River isn't a Time Lord anyway, just a human with some Time Lord DNA. She hasn't got the Doctor's magic powers.

Rassilon died along with all the other Time Lords in the war, having temporarily managed to bust out of the time lock just before the end.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 2, 2013)

Santino said:


> River isn't a Time Lord anyway, just a human with some Time Lord DNA.


Didn't say she was. But she did time travel, and she did write books. And she also knew the Doctor's name. And although she died in the library, we know her time line didn't match the Doctor's, so we could still meet the younger her at any time really.

And if the Tardis can create rooms (an infinite number) and furnish them, it/she could create books very easily. The Tardis knows the Doctor's history, too.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 2, 2013)

and hopefully we will never have to see those god awful time lords robes from the 80s ever again


----------



## Santino (May 2, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Didn't say she was. But she did time travel, and she did write books. And she also knew the Doctor's name. And although she died in the library, we know her time line didn't match the Doctor's, so we could still meet the younger her at any time really.
> 
> And if the Tardis can create rooms (an infinite number) and furnish them, it/she could create books very easily. The Tardis knows the Doctor's history, too.


I was responding to belboid's false assertion that loads of Time Lords didn't die at the end of the Time War. Only two survived, the Doctor and the Master.


----------



## belboid (May 2, 2013)

No, the Doctor only _knows_ of two that survived.

Romana was last seen in an alternative universe, she could make it back. And if two TL's could escape, why couldn't others? There are plenty, just lying around, picking up their lottery winnings...


----------



## Santino (May 2, 2013)

No other Time Lords escaped, until we get an episode that tells us they did. That's how fiction works.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 2, 2013)

Santino said:


> No other Time Lords escaped, until we get an episode that tells us they did. That's how fiction works.


There have been hints that the Doctor is wrong about that, though. Probably just script insurance.  But still.


----------



## Santino (May 2, 2013)

It's even possible that in some forthcoming episode the Doctor will himself save a Time Lord from the Time War, meaning that although it is now true that no other Time Lords survived the war, it may be that one will be was saved. That's how Doctor Who works.


----------



## kabbes (May 2, 2013)

Santino said:


> It's even possible that in some forthcoming episode the Doctor will himself save a Time Lord from the Time War, meaning that although it is now true that no other Time Lords survived the war, it may be that one will be was saved. That's how Doctor Who works.


Reminds me of the bit in _The Restaurant at the End of the Universe_ about the need for a new grammar to cope with time travel.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 2, 2013)

Santino said:


> it may be that one will be was saved.




Douglas Adams deals with the problems time travel causes for tenses.  I think he said something along the lines of: "The main problem encountered in time travel is not that of accidentally becoming your own father or mother; the major problem is simply one of grammar."


----------



## danny la rouge (May 2, 2013)

kabbes said:


> Reminds me of the bit in _The Restaurant at the End of the Universe_ about the need for a new grammar to cope with time travel.


You might have will beaten me to this insight.


----------



## kabbes (May 2, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Douglas Adams deals with the problems time travel causes for tenses. I think he said something along the lines of: "The main problem encountered in time travel is not that of accidentally becoming your own father or mother; the major problem is simply one of grammar."


Ha, gotcha


----------



## danny la rouge (May 2, 2013)

kabbes said:


> Ha, gotcha


Serves me right for trying to remember the line.


----------



## Santino (May 2, 2013)

I will knew that would have happen.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 2, 2013)

Santino said:


> It's even possible that in some forthcoming episode the Doctor will himself save a Time Lord from the Time War, meaning that although it is now true that no other Time Lords survived the war, it may be that one will be was saved. That's how Doctor Who works.


 
Well the fucking daleks keep showing up all over the shop, with the writers no longer even bothering to try and explain how or why this has happened, so I don't see why time lords shouldn't be able to pull the same trick.


----------



## Santino (May 2, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> Well the fucking daleks keep showing up all over the shop, with the writers no longer even bothering to try and explain how or why this has happened, so I don't see why time lords shouldn't be able to pull the same trick.


Actually I think we have been treated to whole storylines dedicated to explaining why there are Daleks all over the place.


----------



## CNT36 (May 2, 2013)

The Doctor would know if there were any proper time lords about as he would be able to sense them. He wasn't aware of The Master because he was human at the time. It also seems that time lords may have survived in other universes such as the one in The Doctor's wife.

Someone mentioned the Tardis creating books. In the missing adventure Crystal Bucephalus the Tardis library is shown as infinite and contains pretty much every book ever written. New books would materialise on the shelves. If this is still the The History of the Time War could of been written by anyone and still ended up in the Tardis. As at least one person was shown as having foreknowledge of events to come in the Time War it is possible that it was written during or even before  the ccnflict. It seems to have been erased from history as a result of the the Time Lock and would have involved several changes in history so would most likely have to be written by someone with a different perspective on time.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 2, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> and hopefully we will never have to see those god awful time lords robes from the 80s ever again


 
The robes aren't so bad, it's the headresses that are


----------



## danny la rouge (May 2, 2013)

CNT36 said:
			
		

> Someone mentioned the Tardis creating books. In the missing adventure Crystal Bucephalus the Tardis library is shown as infinite and contains pretty much every book ever written. New books would materialise on the shelves.


Wow. It was me. But I had no idea I was so far out of my depth. When people say "in the missing adventure" and then describe its contents, I know I'm in the presence of true fandom. The thread is yours.


----------



## Santino (May 2, 2013)

It's impossible to be fashionable as a Time Lord because every time a trend emerges everyone pops back in time to jump on the bandwagon before the trend started.


----------



## CNT36 (May 2, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Wow. It was me. But I had no idea I was so far out of my depth. When people say "in the missing adventure" and then describe its contents, I know I'm in the presence of true fandom. The thread is yours.


I haven't read that many of them and it was a Christmas present. Honest!!!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 2, 2013)

Santino said:


> Actually I think we have been treated to whole storylines dedicated to explaining why there are Daleks all over the place.


The show is sci-fi based on time travel. The script writers don't need any more reasons than that to do _anything_


----------



## redsquirrel (May 2, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> and hopefully we will never have to see those god awful time lords robes from the 80s ever again


Oh come on they were great. Excellent hats too


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 2, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Wow. It was me. But I had no idea I was so far out of my depth. When people say "in the missing adventure" and then describe its contents, I know I'm in the presence of true fandom. The thread is yours.


 
wait until they start talking about  doctor who fan fiction.   that stuff started generating it's own cannonicity


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 2, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> I haven't read that many of them and it was a Christmas present. Honest!!!


 
i thought a lot of the missing adventures were great.   the new adventures kinda disappeared up their own arse after a while.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 2, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i thought a lot of the missing adventures were great. the new adventures kinda disappeared up their own arse after a while.


 

chris kwedge. Land of Fiction.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 2, 2013)

i do like the one which is  doctor who meets  (not) the culture
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Also_People


----------



## danny la rouge (May 2, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:
			
		

> wait until they start talking about  doctor who fan fiction.   that stuff started generating it's own cannonicity



That's not a word, and never will be.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 3, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> That's not a word, and never will be.


 
Danny's right. It's _canonicity _with a single n.


----------



## belboid (May 3, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> Danny's right. It's _canonicity _with a single n.


damn it!  It actually is in the Collins dictionary


----------



## DotCommunist (May 3, 2013)

bet it predates geek use tough, some cunt will have used it ina lit theory essay about THE canon

never sure whose in and whose out


----------



## belboid (May 3, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> bet it predates geek use tough, some cunt will have used it ina lit theory essay about THE canon


even earlier - the fact or quality of being canonical (Ecclesiastical term). Canon Baron was our local priest back in the day. A right old git who should have been fired out of ...


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 3, 2013)

Santino said:


> It's impossible to be fashionable as a Time Lord because every time a trend emerges everyone pops back in time to jump on the bandwagon before the trend started.


 
Time Lords as the original hipster twats!


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 3, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> i do like the one which is doctor who meets (not) the culture
> http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Also_People


 
Huh, didn't know Ben (brother of David) Aaronovitch had written Who books.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 3, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Huh, didn't know Ben (brother of David) Aaronovitch had written Who books.


yeah he also did transit which is alright

but really  it's because of remembrance of the daleks and battlefield that i rate him.  but  then i was always a McCoy fan


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 4, 2013)

Absolutely splendid satnav joke in tonights episode.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 4, 2013)

Well that was better.

I thought Rachael Sterling gave a lovely performance and both she and Diana Rigg (her real life Mum which I thought was cool) showed up what a rather shit actress Jenna louise Coleman is.

In fact I have come to the conslusion that I dislike Clara immensely and the series would _be so much better_ without her


----------



## 8den (May 4, 2013)

Next week the Doctor takes children in the Tardis to a space amusement park, marvellous.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 4, 2013)

8den said:


> Next week the Doctor takes children in the Tardis to a space amusement park, marvellous.


 
It's Neil Gaiman's episode I think, so it might be a little better than the premise suggests.


----------



## captainmission (May 4, 2013)

it is written by neil gaiman though. His previous episode was one of the best of the past series.


----------



## Epona (May 4, 2013)

I largely enjoyed that episode - I don't mind the occasional comedic one, and it was quite well done.

Not liking The Doctor as potential sex-pest though  I mean seriously WTF, sort it out for fuck's sake.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 4, 2013)

captainmission said:


> it is written by neil gaiman though. His previous episode was one of the best of the past series.


 
Thank god.
I wish he could take the whole series or at least be an exec. DW needs a kick up the jacksy in the same way the british comic writers revamped Americas superheros in the 80s.
If adventure time can get away with not having a 'reset' button, then doctor flipping who can.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 4, 2013)

I enjoyed tonight's episode a lot, mostly when the doctor and Clara weren't in it. Which is pretty sad, really. I just really do not like the doctor as a character anymore.


----------



## FiFi (May 4, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> I enjoyed tonight's episode a lot, mostly when the doctor and Clara weren't in it. Which is pretty sad, really. I just really do not like the doctor as a character anymore.



I think I've said it before, but I REALLY want a spin-off about the Lizard Lady, her maid and the Sontaran.  I love them to bits


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 4, 2013)

FiFi said:


> I think I've said it before, but I REALLY want a spin-off about the Lizard Lady, her maid and the Sontaran. I love them to bits


 
I think the point that can be made from this are that they are interesting and quirky. If they just approached Mr Who and his assistants in the same way instead of thinking he and his assistant always had to be the same boring dynamic.The great thing about who is that he / it can be anything and go anywhere with anyone who is anything.
Why does if have to be so stale?


----------



## captainmission (May 4, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I think the point that can be made from this are that they are interesting and quirky. If they just approached Mr Who and his assistants in the same way instead of thinking he and his assistant always had to be the same boring dynamic.The great thing about who is that he / it can be anything and go anywhere with anyone who is anything.
> Why does if have to be so stale?


 
I think its why rory and wilf and donna have worked well as companions.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 4, 2013)

I'm carefully avoiding looking at this thread as I haven't seen it yet. Is this a good enough one to go and watch it now, or is it a poor effort that I might as well watch with the kids tomorrow? Please let me know without spoilers.


----------



## captainmission (May 4, 2013)

Also not liking the causal misogyny of the dr this series. For a start grabbing people and kissing them, no matter how excited they get, warrants quite a bit more than a slap.

And 'HAHA women are shit at driving tardises HAHA' says magic space jesus


----------



## DexterTCN (May 4, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> I'm carefully avoiding looking at this thread as I haven't seen it yet. Is this a good enough one to go and watch it now, or is it a poor effort that I might as well watch with the kids tomorrow? Please let me know without spoilers.


Enhanced with kids, worth watching.


----------



## Quartz (May 4, 2013)

Nice in-joke about Tegan.


----------



## Bajie (May 4, 2013)

I thought tonight's episode was quite good, until The Doctor recovered from his partial paralysis and started pratting about, I am not really impressed by this season so far, my son is the biggest Dr Who fan that I know, but even he has now started wincing at the prat parts, and the kissing grosses him out.

Neil Gaiman though for the next episode, so got to be better.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 4, 2013)

Ok, it's finally tipped into a world of awful. Utter fucking shite.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 4, 2013)

I mean, there has been an explosion in the kissing, hasn't there? It's not just my imagination. Us folks on urban aren't known for being prudes, so it's not that we're all "ooh, no sex please, we're British" or whatever, it's just that ... it seems a bit weird. There's quite a bit of the old forcing surprised kisses on people, which can be fine if there's a decent reason for it and a tacit consensual agreement, but idk, sometimes it feels a bit... I don't have a better word for it other than 'weird'.

I noted a few pages ago about not liking how the doctor comes across as a bully now, and someone replied that I was confusing him with a nice human, and he's not a nice human. Yeah, I know that. But when the doctor has done questionable things in the past, it's generally been accompanied by him being aware that it's questionable, or the companions make him aware. It's usually addressed in some way, either by eventually telling him not to be a dick, or by him having some kind of epiphany where he realises what he's been doing. What I mean is, there's usually a reason for his darker periods, and they are worked into his character and the stories in some way that makes them relevant and worthwhile, and they add to our understanding of him and the things he goes through. He has flaws, and his recognition of those flaws is the important and interesting part. But now, more recently, he's just a dick for the sake of being a dick. There's no introspection (I'm not talking about an episode's worth of navel gazing), it's just presented as 'this is what he's like, and isn't that awesome, he's so funny?'

If I was going to have any criticism of tonight's episode, it would be his reaction when Mrs Gillyflower fell at the end. The doctor isn't always compassionate, I know that. He is prepared to witness, and perhaps even cause, death if he has to, I know that too. But one of the defining characteristics that I associate with the doctor (sometimes annoyingly so, actually) is that he tries as hard as possible to give people a way out, to give them an option to solve the problems without them having to die (either at his hands or someone else's). Maybe it's because I haven't watched a great deal of classic who, maybe he's been far more of a cunt through history than I'm aware of, but that's certainly how he's been portrayed since the reboot. But when she fell, there was no look that signified "dammit, she didn't have to die" or "I could have helped her" - no, it was a glib sucking in of air through the teeth, that totally trivilised the fact she's falling to her death. She was the baddie, I get it, but his reaction in those few seconds just didn't sit right with me at all. I also thought he would have been more angry with her daughter when she squished Mr Sweet to death, since again he's always had this thing about trying to protect life, but no, just a glib little aside, "Or not...", when a creature that was by no means evil at all was killed like that.

Yeah, yeah, it's just a kids' show. I know. I'm just trying to explain some of the little things that sit uncomfortably with me. I'm likely not explaining them very well, and unless you feel the same way you probably won't get what I mean. But it just doesn't _feel_ right anymore. The doctor leaves me feeling awkward. Being chaotic and having lapses of judgement and being nasty would all be absolutely fine if they were given some kind of context but they aren't anymore.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 4, 2013)

I have no idea if your analysis is good or not. I just know that the show has fallen into a big pile of stinky shite.


----------



## Epona (May 4, 2013)

captainmission said:


> Also not liking the causal misogyny of the dr this series. For a start grabbing people and kissing them, no matter how excited they get, warrants quite a bit more than a slap.
> 
> And 'HAHA women are shit at driving tardises HAHA' says magic space jesus


 
Yep that was my issue with it - it's totally unacceptable to grab a woman and try to snog her, then grin like it's all a joke when she slaps your face (personally I'd have kneed him in the bollocks and run for it).  It came across as a bit Benny Hill, comedic sex-pest type thing, which really should not time travel into the 21st Century.  It's not OK or funny to do that, and it's a new and unpleasant side to The Doctor that did not exist previously.  The episode with William Hartnell in The Aztecs where he accidentally gets betrothed to a woman by sharing chocolate with her is dealt with in a way that was respectful to the woman concerned (and portrayed her as an equal), this grab and kiss stuff is the other side of the line, especially in a show for youngsters where a better example could be set.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 4, 2013)

no idea what happened tonight. No idea at all


----------



## Epona (May 4, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Maybe it's because I haven't watched a great deal of classic who, maybe he's been far more of a cunt through history than I'm aware of, but that's certainly how he's been portrayed since the reboot. But when she fell, there was no look that signified "dammit, she didn't have to die" or "I could have helped her" - no, it was a glib sucking in of air through the teeth, that totally trivilised the fact she's falling to her death. She was the baddie, I get it, but his reaction in those few seconds just didn't sit right with me at all. I also thought he would have been more angry with her daughter when she squished Mr Sweet to death, since again he's always had this thing about trying to protect life, but no, just a glib little aside, "Or not...", when a creature that was by no means evil at all was killed like that.


 
I agree with a lot of what you said, but if you haven't watched much Classic Who, you may not know that the first season basically involved the Doctor holding 2 humans (Barbara and Ian) hostage on the Tardis for a considerable period of time, often threatening to abandon them in a different time or location, and with seemingly little regard for those around him, including Susan.  A lot of the early Doctor Who episodes show the Doctor as being extremely manipulative - often lying or omitting to tell his companions/hostages what was going on, and leaving them in perilous situations or using them as bait.

So The Doctor hasn't always been fluffy and nice, he's often been a hard-nosed manipulative bastard - but never before has he been a sex-pest, and that's a step too far.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 4, 2013)

Epona said:


> I agree with a lot of what you said, but if you haven't watched much Classic Who, you may not know that the first season basically involved the Doctor holding 2 humans (Barbara and Ian) hostage on the Tardis for a considerable period of time, often threatening to abandon them in a different time or location, and with seemingly little regard for those around him, including Susan. A lot of the early Doctor Who episodes show the Doctor as being extremely manipulative - often lying or omitting to tell his companions/hostages what was going on, and leaving them in perilous situations or using them as bait.
> 
> So The Doctor hasn't always been fluffy and nice, he's often been a hard-nosed manipulative bastard - but never before has he been a sex-pest, and that's a step too far.


 
Okay, thanks for that. So it might not be completely new in terms of the longer history of who, but nevertheless it's certainly not a direction I like it going in.


----------



## captainmission (May 4, 2013)

Epona said:


> Yep that was my issue with it - it's totally unacceptable to grab a woman and try to snog her, then grin like it's all a joke when she slaps your face (personally I'd have kneed him in the bollocks and run for it).


 
She's shown herself to be a dab hand with a katana. She wants to start carrying that around again.


----------



## Cid (May 4, 2013)

Diana Rigg was good though.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 4, 2013)

Cid said:


> Diana Rigg was good though.


 
Aye, she was at that.


----------



## Epona (May 4, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Okay, thanks for that. So it might not be completely new in terms of the longer history of who, but nevertheless it's certainly not a direction I like it going in.


 
Although it's classic Who, fans don't actually like it very much when that type of Who is re-enacted in later eras - Colin Baker did The Doctor in a very similar harsh way to William Hartnell, and is almost universally disliked for it.  Fans want a more concerned and caring Who.  And that doesn't typically involve forcing himself on women.



captainmission said:


> She's shown herself to be a dab hand with a katana. She wants to start carrying that around again.


 
I think SHE should have been the companion this series, she's fucking awesome.  Loved the fact that her fighting outfit still had a bustle, that's the right kind of combination of ridiculous and sassy.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 5, 2013)

Epona said:


> Loved the fact that her fighting outfit still had a bustle, that's the right kind of combination of ridiculous and sassy.


 
Oh god, ikr? It was perfect. A little bit sexy (okay, a lot sexy ) but not sexualised, iyswim, and utterly hilarious because of the little bustle. I loved it.

Seriously, imagine this series with Vastra, Jenny and Strax as his companions (without his childish bullying name-calling of Strax all the time) - it'd be great.


----------



## Epona (May 5, 2013)

Cid said:


> Diana Rigg was good though.


 
I fucking love Diana Rigg, I used to be a huge fan of her era of The Avengers and even though she's older now every time I see her she is captured in that role forever in my mind.  She's also a good actor and she was really great in this episode


----------



## Epona (May 5, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Oh god, ikr? It was perfect. A little bit sexy (okay, a lot sexy ) but not sexualised, iyswim, and utterly hilarious because of the little bustle. I loved it.
> 
> Seriously, imagine this series with Vastra, Jenny and Strax as his companions (without his childish bullying name-calling of Strax all the time) - it'd be great.


 
Yeah the outfit was sexy in a good way, it didn't put anything on display, and the bustle was a great touch, really good work from the wardrobe department there!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 5, 2013)

nothing made any sense. why was there a lobster doc. Its all gone south


----------



## Epona (May 5, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> nothing made any sense. why was there a lobster doc. Its all gone south


 
Doh, you weren't paying attention then, this episode actually made some kind of sense (on a kids' sci-fi level). 



Spoiler



He was trying to take Clara v2.0 back to Victorian London to see if it would trigger any memories about Victorian Clara. Typical TARDIS fuckup meant they ended up in the whacko community of Sweetville in Yorkshire by mistake (and the old film footage style was a genius way of doing the flashback scenes), spotted something untoward going on, and he ended up being 'immunised' with a dilute solution of the crimson horror. It went wrong, but because he wasn't human he didn't die like a human would if the process went wrong. Diana Rigg was immunising people that she wanted to save from her eventual plan to contaminate and kill the world by exposing them to a small amount of the toxin (by dipping them in a dilute solution as a means of vaccination) and it didn't always work, hence bodies ending up dumped in the canal - and that would have been the Doctor's fate had it not been for Ada chaining him up (which is in this context supposed to be a good and caring thing, I suppose - my next essay will be titled "the normalisation of torture as an acceptable method of information gathering in US crime drama series")


.

Edit: just occurred to me that I should probably put most of what I posted in spoiler tags, in case anyone doesn't watch it as it's aired


----------



## Epona (May 5, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> But when she fell, there was no look that signified "dammit, she didn't have to die" or "I could have helped her" - no, it was a glib sucking in of air through the teeth, that totally trivilised the fact she's falling to her death. She was the baddie, I get it, but his reaction in those few seconds just didn't sit right with me at all. I also thought he would have been more angry with her daughter when she squished Mr Sweet to death, since again he's always had this thing about trying to protect life, but no, just a glib little aside, "Or not...", when a creature that was by no means evil at all was killed like that.


I have singled out this quote VP because I do think there is something in it - it's extremely rare (even in the days when the Doctor was a hard-nosed bastard!) to see anyone shot and fall like that in Doctor Who, and I found it quite shocking because it is extremely unusual in the series - usually if a human baddie dies, it is because they have been deceived by whatever evil being/alien is manipulating them and the evil being kills them (Pyramids of Mars is one of my favourite Dr Who stories ever), but it's highly unusual to see anyone die like they did in this episode of Doctor Who, usually if anyone dies there's some sort of 'comeuppance' or double-cross involved from whatever alien being they are trying to deal with (it's almost biblical in that sense, being tempted by the devil and meeting a sorry end!), and the Doctor and his allies tend to regret not being able to prevent the death, rather than causing it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 5, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Seriously, imagine this series with Vastra, Jenny and Strax as his companions (without his childish bullying name-calling of Strax all the time) - it'd be great.


This, really. It's blatantly obvious, and sadly any episode with them ultimately just serves to highlight how rubbishy most of the other episodes are by comparison.

Also, in addition to the kiss, was also annoyed that Jenny did some arse-kicking at which point the Doctor grabbed her hand and they started running again. Because apparently women can still only run if a man (or male, at least  ) is holding their hand


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 5, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Nice in-joke about Tegan.


 
Wasn't really a joke though was it. Just a reference to Tegan, and one that was pretty flippant about their relationship. Didn't really tally with her exit.
I do quite like it though when he doesn't give too much of a toss about his companions. Sarah Janes exit was cool, he didn't even drop her off in Croydon, and after everything never got in contact again, much like all the others (until the dreadful new wave DR WHO companions).


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 5, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I have no idea if your analysis is good or not. I just know that the show has fallen into a big pile of stinky shite.


 
I've been quite peeved with this half of the season but that one was quite fun. Lightweight, but none the worse for that.

Re: sexist Doctor - he's 1100 years old by now, for goodness' sake. It's like a lecherous great uncle at a wedding; one cuts slack.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 5, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> Also, in addition to the kiss, was also annoyed that Jenny did some arse-kicking at which point the Doctor grabbed her hand and they started running again. Because apparently women can still only run if a man (or male, at least  ) is holding their hand


 
I thought that was because if the Doctor didn't physically drag her away she'd have just tried to beat up all the wrong 'uns with clubs single handedly.

I liked that episode anyway. I can only think of one plot hole, namely that the picture of the Doctor in the dead man's eye was of a normal, grinning Doctor not the semi-petrified lobster version he actually saw


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 5, 2013)

Epona said:


> I have singled out this quote VP because I do think there is something in it - it's extremely rare (even in the days when the Doctor was a hard-nosed bastard!) to see anyone shot and fall like that in Doctor Who, and I found it quite shocking because it is extremely unusual in the series - usually if a human baddie dies, it is because they have been deceived by whatever evil being/alien is manipulating them and the evil being kills them (Pyramids of Mars is one of my favourite Dr Who stories ever), but it's highly unusual to see anyone die like they did in this episode of Doctor Who, usually if anyone dies there's some sort of 'comeuppance' or double-cross involved from whatever alien being they are trying to deal with (it's almost biblical in that sense, being tempted by the devil and meeting a sorry end!), and the Doctor and his allies tend to regret not being able to prevent the death, rather than causing it.


 
But she was fucking evil though. I found myself hoping she would just get shot rather than suffer one of Doctor Who's classic 'poetic justice' type sticky ends. Same thing with the bad guy in the dinosaur episode, he was such a cunt that even poetic justice would have been more than he deserved.


----------



## fogbat (May 5, 2013)

I rather enjoyed it. It had flaws, which have been well reported in this thread, but it was still a million times better than the story eating monster destroyed by the power of singing.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 5, 2013)

actually in  the first doctor who episode theres a bit  which sugests  he was  about to stone a guys head in   just because he was injured and slowing the group down


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 5, 2013)

it was ok

the bit  with  the photos and the kids   was a bit childrwens show


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 5, 2013)

And post-reboot, he thinks up some fairly nasty punishments for the Family of Blood, all involving some degree of moderate but eternal irritation.


----------



## captainmission (May 5, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> the bit with the photos and the kids was a bit childrwens show


 
come now, looking through soviet photo archives is just the sort of activity 10 yr olds do at school.


----------



## 8den (May 5, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> It's Neil Gaiman's episode I think, so it might be a little better than the premise suggests.


 
I know, I know, all I can say is, it will well bloody have to be.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 5, 2013)

captainmission said:


> come now, looking through soviet photo archives is just the sort of activity 10 yr olds do at school.


 
yeah and using advanced facial recognition software

and  who took the pictures in the hunted house. there were only 4 people there  and  all of them are in the photo


----------



## captainmission (May 5, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> and who took the pictures in the hunted house. there were only 4 people there and all of them are in the photo


 
The untrapped time traveller?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 5, 2013)

i'd have to check the  episode  to see when that shoot was taken


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 5, 2013)

captainmission said:


> Also not liking the causal misogyny of the dr this series. For a start grabbing people and kissing them, no matter how excited they get, warrants quite a bit more than a slap.


 
As did the leering when the maid took of her dress in order to fight.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 5, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> I thought that was because if the Doctor didn't physically drag her away she'd have just tried to beat up all the wrong 'uns with clubs single handedly.


That would have worked if he'd had to physically drag her off, but as I remember he just held out his hand and she accepted it willingly. Just didn't sit right with her character, and was _particularly _jarring coming just after she'd opened a small can of whoop-ass.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 5, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> I mean, there has been an explosion in the kissing, hasn't there? It's not just my imagination. Us folks on urban aren't known for being prudes, so it's not that we're all "ooh, no sex please, we're British" or whatever, it's just that ... it seems a bit weird. There's quite a bit of the old forcing surprised kisses on people, which can be fine if there's a decent reason for it and a tacit consensual agreement, but idk, sometimes it feels a bit... I don't have a better word for it other than 'weird'.


 
When he started doing it earlier in the season I thought "maybe this is some Galifreyan version of _pon farr_", but I suspect they're setting something far less interesting up.



> I noted a few pages ago about not liking how the doctor comes across as a bully now, and someone replied that I was confusing him with a nice human, and he's not a nice human. Yeah, I know that. But when the doctor has done questionable things in the past, it's generally been accompanied by him being aware that it's questionable, or the companions make him aware. It's usually addressed in some way, either by eventually telling him not to be a dick, or by him having some kind of epiphany where he realises what he's been doing. What I mean is, there's usually a reason for his darker periods, and they are worked into his character and the stories in some way that makes them relevant and worthwhile, and they add to our understanding of him and the things he goes through. He has flaws, and his recognition of those flaws is the important and interesting part. But now, more recently, he's just a dick for the sake of being a dick. There's no introspection (I'm not talking about an episode's worth of navel gazing), it's just presented as 'this is what he's like, and isn't that awesome, he's so funny?'
> 
> If I was going to have any criticism of tonight's episode, it would be his reaction when Mrs Gillyflower fell at the end. The doctor isn't always compassionate, I know that. He is prepared to witness, and perhaps even cause, death if he has to, I know that too. But one of the defining characteristics that I associate with the doctor (sometimes annoyingly so, actually) is that he tries as hard as possible to give people a way out, to give them an option to solve the problems without them having to die (either at his hands or someone else's). Maybe it's because I haven't watched a great deal of classic who, maybe he's been far more of a cunt through history than I'm aware of, but that's certainly how he's been portrayed since the reboot. But when she fell, there was no look that signified "dammit, she didn't have to die" or "I could have helped her" - no, it was a glib sucking in of air through the teeth, that totally trivilised the fact she's falling to her death. She was the baddie, I get it, but his reaction in those few seconds just didn't sit right with me at all. I also thought he would have been more angry with her daughter when she squished Mr Sweet to death, since again he's always had this thing about trying to protect life, but no, just a glib little aside, "Or not...", when a creature that was by no means evil at all was killed like that.


 
I just re-watched series 1 - 5 last week, and one of the things that stands out most is the Doctor's *insistence* on ALWAYS giving his enemies a chance to repent/reform, even at his most angry and violent, with his most hgorrific enemies. As you say, he really didn't do that here, and it rankles!



> Yeah, yeah, it's just a kids' show. I know. I'm just trying to explain some of the little things that sit uncomfortably with me. I'm likely not explaining them very well, and unless you feel the same way you probably won't get what I mean. But it just doesn't _feel_ right anymore. The doctor leaves me feeling awkward. Being chaotic and having lapses of judgement and being nasty would all be absolutely fine if they were given some kind of context but they aren't anymore.


 
It's a kid's show with a complex mythos and canon developed around it, and those being transgressed willy-nilly after half a century of being established isn't only counter-intuitive, it's ridiculous.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 5, 2013)

captainmission said:


> The untrapped time traveller?


Timer.


ViolentPanda said:


> As did the leering when the maid took of her dress in order to fight.


That was just the respect and admiration of one warrior to another.

Neither of these assertions may be entirely without tongue in the vicinity of cheek


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 5, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Oh god, ikr? It was perfect. A little bit sexy (okay, a lot sexy ) but not sexualised, iyswim, and utterly hilarious because of the little bustle. I loved it.
> 
> Seriously, imagine this series with Vastra, Jenny and Strax as his companions (without his childish bullying name-calling of Strax all the time) - it'd be great.


 
I did love Strax's strop when Vastra asked him if he'd been filching Jenny's sherbert lemons. "I'm going to go and play with my grenades. Hmphhh!".


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 5, 2013)

I thought it was quite good , but he's a doctor , he's a genius with a tardis but he can't / won't help the blind girls sight, I thought he should have


----------



## 8den (May 5, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> I thought it was quite good , but he's a doctor , he's a genius with a tardis but he can't / won't help the blind girls sight, I thought he should have


 
He's not a medical doctor.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 5, 2013)

Yeah I know , wasn't being entirely serious


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 5, 2013)

8den said:


> He's not a medical doctor.


actually he is as well.  or at least claims to be.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/classic/episodeguide/doctorsdoctorate.shtml


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 5, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I just re-watched series 1 - 5 last week, and one of the things that stands out most is the Doctor's *insistence* on ALWAYS giving his enemies a chance to repent/reform, even at his most angry and violent, with his most hgorrific enemies. As you say, he really didn't do that here, and it rankles!


 
Exactly. I've rewatched them a couple of times, and that need to always give his enemies a chance - like you say, even when they are the absolute worst of the worst - was something that defined who he was, since the reboot at least. That's been missing from quite a lot of Smith's episodes. I know each new doctor is exactly that, a new doctor... but I'm not used to there being such a complete and total break with everything that made him the man he was. He stands for nothing, now. Absolutely nothing. I have no idea who he is. He's just a time traveller, who enjoys a laugh. He gets obsessed with his companions, but we have no idea what in his character makes him act that way, it's not a question that's deemed important. He's empty. For all his jolly japes and larks and jerking around, he's boring and empty because he appears to have absolutely nothing that he stands for, nothing that he believes in, there's nothing in his character that signifies anything deeper, any guiding principles.

God, I just really, really don't like him anymore.


----------



## RedDragon (May 5, 2013)

Bits I liked, bits I didn't.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 5, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Bits I liked, bits I didn't.


That wouldn't be a bad epitaph.


----------



## RedDragon (May 5, 2013)

Ever since Baker the Doctor has been an insufferable prick


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 5, 2013)

That wouldn't be quite as good, but each to their own.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 5, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Exactly. I've rewatched them a couple of times, and that need to always give his enemies a chance - like you say, even when they are the absolute worst of the worst - was something that defined who he was, since the reboot at least. That's been missing from quite a lot of Smith's episodes. I know each new doctor is exactly that, a new doctor... but I'm not used to there being such a complete and total break with everything that made him the man he was. He stands for nothing, now. Absolutely nothing. I have no idea who he is. He's just a time traveller, who enjoys a laugh. He gets obsessed with his companions, but we have no idea what in his character makes him act that way, it's not a question that's deemed important. He's empty. For all his jolly japes and larks and jerking around, he's boring and empty because he appears to have absolutely nothing that he stands for, nothing that he believes in, there's nothing in his character that signifies anything deeper, any guiding principles.


 
And yet he didn't start off like this. Okay, so Mr. Fishfingers 'n' Custard was a zaniness too far, but previous episodes were okay, insofar as 11 being scripted somewhat "within character". This last set of offerings, though, they're formulaic, over-zany and ultimately meh.



> God, I just really, really don't like him anymore.


 
I blame the Moff. I think he's a reincarnation of the Abzorbaloff.   It's like he's taken the writers aside and said "fuck the story arc, fuck characterisation, just make it punchy!".


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 5, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Ever since Baker the Doctor has been an insufferable prick



Which Baker? The fifth was a sufferable and as non-prickly as you could get, so I trust you mean Colin?


----------



## Stigmata (May 5, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Exactly. I've rewatched them a couple of times, and that need to always give his enemies a chance - like you say, even when they are the absolute worst of the worst - was something that defined who he was, since the reboot at least. That's been missing from quite a lot of Smith's episodes. I know each new doctor is exactly that, a new doctor... but I'm not used to there being such a complete and total break with everything that made him the man he was. He stands for nothing, now. Absolutely nothing. I have no idea who he is. He's just a time traveller, who enjoys a laugh. He gets obsessed with his companions, but we have no idea what in his character makes him act that way, it's not a question that's deemed important. He's empty. For all his jolly japes and larks and jerking around, he's boring and empty because he appears to have absolutely nothing that he stands for, nothing that he believes in, there's nothing in his character that signifies anything deeper, any guiding principles.
> 
> God, I just really, really don't like him anymore.


 
He's a bit less of a hypocrite these days

Edit: Anyway, he did give her a chance to back down. Several, iirc


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 5, 2013)

I heard on the grapevine today that Smith may be deciding to fuck off for pastures new, but, more interestingly, that Moffat may be leaving too, possibly due to some kind of to-do with the higher-ups.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:
			
		

> I heard on the grapevine today that Smith may be deciding to fuck off for pastures new, but, more interestingly, that Moffat may be leaving too, possibly due to some kind of to-do with the higher-ups.



I wondered what the new minder was about.

Anyway, I enjoyed that episode. Except for the end bit with the photos on the laptop.


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2013)

Oooh. I want an elderly doctor next, please.  Like Derek Jackobi's master.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2013)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> Oooh. I want an elderly doctor next, please.  Like Derek Jackobi's master.



Sadly, that won't happen.


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Sadly, that won't happen.


Why not?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2013)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> Why not?



The New Who ethic is for the Doctor to be a young, attractive dude . Rather than an older chap.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 5, 2013)

Attractive? Matt Smith? The Easter Island crack was spot on.


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> The New Who ethic is for the Doctor to be a young, attractive dude . Rather than an older chap.


Chris Ecclestone is hardly young and attractive.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2013)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> Chris Ecclestone is hardly young and attractive.



He's not that young, but he's attractive, isn't he?


----------



## Stigmata (May 5, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> The New Who ethic is for the Doctor to be a young, attractive dude . Rather than an older chap.


 
They were intending to cast an older actor, but were impressed with Matt Smith's audition. The casting brief was for someone middle aged.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2013)

Stigmata said:
			
		

> They were intending to cast an older actor, but were impressed with Matt Smith's audition. The casting brief was for someone middle aged.



Really? 

Well I'm available now.


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> He's not that young, but he's attractive, isn't he?


Not especially. Charismatic, but balding, toothy and blobby of nose.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2013)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> Not especially. Charismatic, but balding, toothy and blobby of nose.



Ah. I don't mean good looking. I mean attractive.


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah. I don't mean good looking. I mean attractive.


To whom?


----------



## Stigmata (May 5, 2013)

My sister fancies him


----------



## Reno (May 5, 2013)

I fancy him as well.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 5, 2013)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> To whom?



Mrs la rouge. Stigmata's sister. Reno. 

There's a difference between attractiveness and good looks. 

Anyway, we're way off course. I had the impression that the ethos was for younger rather than older actors. I thought it had been said at some point by Moffat.


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2013)

sorry, i should be clear - i fancy him a bit... but he doesnt have youth appeal, which is where i thought you were going with the 'young and attractive' thing.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 5, 2013)

Pretty good episode, not special but solid. The first half when the Doctor and Clara weren't around was good, even if some of the jokes were pretty obvious. The second half was significantly worse. I also agree with VP about the shooting - very, very un-Who like.



8den said:


> Next week the Doctor takes children in the Tardis to a space amusement park, marvellous.


That looks dreadful - how can anyone think adding annoying children will improve anything, unless they're there to die - which isn't going to happen.



spanglechick said:


> Oooh. I want an elderly doctor next, please. Like Derek Jackobi's master.


Yes, please. Too many young doctors in a row but Danny's right it wont happen


----------



## Stigmata (May 5, 2013)

I thought the teaser looked great. Plus it's the Gaiman episode apparently


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 6, 2013)

With some of the points from this in mind, it'll be interesting how they portray Clara and the kids. I mean, I guess there's only one way they can, she's their nanny, so she'll be the mother role, but still.

(Link is to an article on how Clara has been portrayed, or might be in the future, wrt the concept of 'strong female character' or 'strong character, female'.)


----------



## kittyP (May 6, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:
			
		

> yeah and using advanced facial recognition software
> 
> and  who took the pictures in the hunted house. there were only 4 people there  and  all of them are in the photo



The woman they saved in the white suit? 
I am being facetious. 

I enjoyed Saturday's episode but more for everyone else than the dr and Klara. 
Matt Smith doesn't really annoy me as much as he seems to others. Although he is more sloppy/cheesy than others. 
Klara is irritating though.


----------



## kittyP (May 6, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:
			
		

> As did the leering when the maid took of her dress in order to fight.



She did look fucking sexy though.


----------



## kittyP (May 6, 2013)

spanglechick said:
			
		

> Not especially. Charismatic, but balding, toothy and blobby of nose.



Lots of people , me included, find Eccleston very attractive


----------



## kabbes (May 6, 2013)

I liked that episode a lot, because the triple-act is brilliant ("Horse, you have failed me").

Smith's Doctor has the depth of a soap bubble, however, and this really grates after the all-round brilliance of Tenant's Doctor. I agree that there have been significant shifts in character (look at the lengths Tenant went to in order to avoid deaths! And compare his interactions with, say, the female lead in The Impossible Planet and this Doctor's interaction with female randoms) and although this can certainly be handwaved away by talking about regenerations or time spent away from humanity, I don't like it.


----------



## Epona (May 6, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> With some of the points from this in mind, it'll be interesting how they portray Clara and the kids. I mean, I guess there's only one way they can, she's their nanny, so she'll be the mother role, but still.
> 
> (Link is to an article on how Clara has been portrayed, or might be in the future, wrt the concept of 'strong female character' or 'strong character, female'.)


 
The way she is portrayed harks back to my comment a few weeks back about her being a personification of the series - her role is the same as the role of Doctor Who when it was first envisaged - to educate and entertain children.  Her character will always take a governess/nanny position when there are children around.


----------



## Reno (May 6, 2013)

kittyP said:


> The woman they saved in the white suit?
> I am being facetious.
> 
> I enjoyed Saturday's episode but more for everyone else than the dr and Klara.
> ...


I'm a very occasional watcher of Doctor Who and whenever I enjoy them it tends to be despite Doctor Who and companion rather because of them. I find Matt Smith as annoying as Tennant, I can't see much difference, they are clearly children's show style characters hamming it up, which I don't respond to. And that's fine, on the whole I'm not the audience for it, though I sometimes tune in if an episode look interesting. I have enjoyed the odd horrorcentric episode.


----------



## Pingu (May 6, 2013)

really not feeling this series at all.

"its complicated"...

fuck off with having some weirdo story arc and just write some good episodes eh.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 6, 2013)

Pingu said:


> fuck off with having some weirdo story arc and just write some good episodes eh.


Couldn't agree more. (Although I still can't get used to calling the series-long sub plot a "story arc", as that term actually has useful function meaning something else).


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 6, 2013)

And for the love of god, please bring back entire full-length series' instead of this cut in half bullshit.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> I heard on the grapevine today that Smith may be deciding to fuck off for pastures new, but, more interestingly, that Moffat may be leaving too, possibly due to some kind of to-do with the higher-ups.


 
I vote Paterson Joseph, *again*.


----------



## Quartz (May 6, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> I heard on the grapevine today that Smith may be deciding to fuck off for pastures new,


 
Yes please! I wouldn't mind David Morrissey back. After all, Romana showed that Time Lords can choose the form of their next regeneration. But if they really want to push the boat out, how about Sean Bean or Alan Rickman?



> but, more interestingly, that Moffat may be leaving too, possibly due to some kind of to-do with the higher-ups.


 
I'm not so happy about this. He did some awesome episodes under RTD, but he clearly needs someone standing over him.


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Yes please! I wouldn't mind David Morrissey back. After all, Romana showed that Time Lords can choose the form of their next regeneration. But if they really want to push the boat out, how about Sean Bean or Alan Rickman?
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not so happy about this. He did some awesome episodes under RTD, but he clearly needs someone standing over him.


Rickman would never do it, or at least not for more than a year.  personally i'd love McKellan, but it aint going to happen.  Most of the others that leap to mind have already done a guest slot.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 6, 2013)

Robert Carlyle usually gets suggested at this point. He'd give a showrunner quite a lot to work with in developing a twelfth, being rather more than one-note.


----------



## Balbi (May 6, 2013)

Sorry, still got to be...







/


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 6, 2013)

The other priority is to have Mark Gatiss and Chris Chibnall beaten to death - or trapped beyond time, if you prefer - before there is any discussion of giving them Moffat's job. An entirely new team is needed.


----------



## Quartz (May 6, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Sorry, still got to be...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Too young-looking IMO.


----------



## FiFi (May 6, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Too young-looking IMO.


Mmmm, far too young.
But he is VERY good-looking!


----------



## Balbi (May 6, 2013)

He's mid-thirties already - don't criticise him for being gorgeous


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2013)

andrew lincoln?


----------



## Balbi (May 6, 2013)

Too big in America right now.


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Too big in America right now.


oh, is he in that zombie thing? i had forgotten that.


----------



## FiFi (May 6, 2013)

Balbi said:


> He's mid-thirties already - don't criticise him for being gorgeous



I'm in my mid-forties, so yes he is young.
Also, I wasn't criticizing. It's just not right for the Doctor to be gorgeous!


----------



## Espresso (May 6, 2013)

I'd never heard of Matt Smith when he got the job and I had only seen David Tennent in Blackpool, where he was a policeman who sang and danced a lot at/with David Morrissey's baddy character. So based on that, I fully predict the new chap to be someone else I don't know from Adam.


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2013)

FiFi said:


> I'm in my mid-forties, so yes he is young.
> Also, I wasn't criticizing. It's just not right for the Doctor to be gorgeous!


*cough* davidtennant *cough*


----------



## FiFi (May 6, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> *cough* davidtennant *cough*


If you like skinny boys!


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2013)

FiFi said:


> If you like skinny boys!


heh, yeah.  build-wise, david tennant is very similar to my husband.  Now if i could just get my husband to embrace hair products...


----------



## Corax (May 6, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I vote Paterson Joseph, *again*.


Oh, he would be fucking _*rock  *_


----------



## Corax (May 6, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I vote Paterson Joseph, *again*.





Corax said:


> Oh, he would be fucking _*rock  *_


Or James Corden of course.


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2013)

Corax said:


> Or James Corden of course.


fuck off


----------



## Balbi (May 6, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> oh, is he in that zombie thing? i had forgotten that.


 
Yep, still in


----------



## Corax (May 6, 2013)

This thread does make me laugh though tbh.

Some episodes and/or characters are better than others, but you know what? I enjoy *all* of them. All this in-depth analysis of internal logic, consistency of motivation and characterisation - I just don't care. It's Doctor Who FFS. It is, and has always been, a light entertainment show. It's not Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Alistair Reynolds, or even Iain M Banks. It's Saturday night telly, and it's fab. 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy reading the discussion of those things above. It's interesting, and fun. But if there are flaws in them it doesn't diminish my enjoyment one jot.

Although I had the same reaction as others to the forced kiss/slap sequence. It was so prevalent in films of a certain era that I don't think the writers would have thought about it any further than that, as a decades long motif iykwim. But it still ain't on, and someone somewhere on the programme should have had the cojones to say _"hang on a minute folks..."_


----------



## Corax (May 6, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> fuck off


What's that for?

Come on now, you're trolling me aren't you?  Who _doesn't_ like James Corden?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2013)

It's only just occurred to me that when the kid spits out directions like a satnav to Skrax, and gives his name as "Thomas Thomas, sir", that it's a near-anagram wordplay on the ATMOS satnav devices from series 4!


----------



## emanymton (May 6, 2013)

Corax said:


> What's that for?
> 
> Come on now, you're trolling me aren't you? Who _doesn't_ like James Corden?


Even James Corden's mother doesn't like James Corden.


----------



## emanymton (May 6, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's only just occurred to me that when the kid spits out directions like a satnav to Skrax, and gives his name as "Thomas Thomas, sir", that it's a near-anagram wordplay on the ATMOS satnav devices from series 4!


Isn't it just a word play on Tomtom?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2013)

emanymton said:


> Isn't it just a word play on Tomtom?


 
On both.


----------



## Corax (May 6, 2013)

emanymton said:


> Isn't it just a word play on Tomtom?


Yes, it is.

I'm glad you quoted it so ViolentPanda can't pull a swift shame-edit


----------



## Corax (May 6, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> On both.


Balls is it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2013)

Corax said:


> Balls is it.


 
Pah. You have gone for the simple solution, while I have gone for the infinitely more complex one, you plebian!


----------



## DexterTCN (May 7, 2013)

Maybe Carla is the next one.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2013)

kittyP said:
			
		

> She did look fucking sexy though.



She looked amazing. She can also act and has charisma. So an ideal companion, really. Other than being gay and companions are supposed to fall in love with the Doctor, although that's tired and boring.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 7, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> She looked amazing. She can also act and has charisma. So an ideal companion, really. Other than being gay and companions are supposed to fall in love with the Doctor, although that's tired and boring.


On the BBC pages linked to somewhere above, it keeps referring to Vastra and Jenny as "very good friends"  At one point in Jenny's bio they do actually refer to the fact that they're married, but it seems pretty reluctant!


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 7, 2013)

There's a funny gif on Tumblr showing that bit where she fights and the Doctor gets flustered. Search for sonic screwdriver boner


----------



## danny la rouge (May 7, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> There's a funny gif on Tumblr showing that bit where she fights and the Doctor gets flustered. Search for sonic screwdriver boner


I'm not on Tumblr.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 7, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm not on Tumblr.


 
See above


----------



## Balbi (May 7, 2013)

Tumblr always takes it too far  But I noticed that at the time and had a sigh/laugh at it.

Also, Smith's really - really - really coming good in those little moments. Ham and cheese but obviously enjoying it.


----------



## MikeMcc (May 7, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's only just occurred to me that when the kid spits out directions like a satnav to Skrax, and gives his name as "Thomas Thomas, sir", that it's a near-anagram wordplay on the ATMOS satnav devices from series 4!


flash......























bang!


----------



## Corax (May 7, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Also, Smith's really - really - really coming good in those little moments. Ham and cheese but obviously enjoying it.


And custard.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 7, 2013)

Corax said:


> This thread does make me laugh though tbh.
> 
> Some episodes and/or characters are better than others, but you know what? I enjoy *all* of them. All this in-depth analysis of internal logic, consistency of motivation and characterisation - I just don't care. It's Doctor Who FFS. It is, and has always been, a light entertainment show. It's not Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Alistair Reynolds, or even Iain M Banks. It's Saturday night telly, and it's fab.
> 
> ...


 
I guess it's just that we all look for different things in our entertainment, and that's just as it should be. I can see why a large amount of people will be just watching and enjoying and sometimes thinking "well that was a duff ep" and then thinking "that one was awesome" - there's plenty of stuff I watch like that too. But sometimes I (and presumably others) have things I look at a bit deeper, whether it's doing a bit of social criticism on it, or picking apart what happens in various episodes, etc. The point about it not being Asimov or whatever isn't relevant - there's social/literary criticism to be had in every single piece of cultural production, the only thing that matters is whether you care to look at something in that way or not.


----------



## stuff_it (May 7, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> To whom?


Would


----------



## Corax (May 7, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> I guess it's just that we all look for different things in our entertainment, and that's just as it should be. I can see why a large amount of people will be just watching and enjoying and sometimes thinking "well that was a duff ep" and then thinking "that one was awesome" - there's plenty of stuff I watch like that too. But sometimes I (and presumably others) have things I look at a bit deeper, whether it's doing a bit of social criticism on it, or picking apart what happens in various episodes, etc. The point about it not being Asimov or whatever isn't relevant - there's social/literary criticism to be had in every single piece of cultural production, the only thing that matters is whether you care to look at something in that way or not.


Each to their own of course. I just feel slightly sad that some people don't seem to be able to take much enjoyment from it, iykwim.

I honestly don't really understand why some people on this thread continue to watch it, as they don't seem to_* like*_ it much. From my PoV it reminds me of one of my Granddads when he started visiting his local supermarket purely to search for bruised produce that he could complain about.


> Literary criticism to be had in every piece of cultural production


I agree. But the production's intent sets the context for that. Dr Who isn't intended to be Brecht. It's as though people are turning up expecting to see _King Lear_ and then finding it's Richard Herring asking famous people if they've ever tried to suck their own cock.

But then coming back week after week, and being equally surprised.

To some extent it's _good_ that there are big _Who_ fans who critique the episodes.  I suspect that because of its cult status it's a rare example of a show where the producers might actually take some notice of fans' opinions.

But some seem so utterly negative that I just think - _why are you *torturing* yourself like this then?  If it's so unmitigatedly dreadful, stop bloody watching it!_


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 7, 2013)

Corax said:


> But some seem so utterly negative that I just think - _why are you *torturing* yourself like this then? If it's so unmitigatedly dreadful, stop bloody watching it!_


 
because they were fans?

because they still hope?


----------



## stuff_it (May 8, 2013)

Corax said:


> Each to their own of course. I just feel slightly sad that some people don't seem to be able to take much enjoyment from it, iykwim.
> 
> I honestly don't really understand why some people on this thread continue to watch it, as they don't seem to_* like*_ it much. From my PoV it reminds me of one of my Granddads when he started visiting his local supermarket purely to search for bruised produce that he could complain about.
> 
> ...


It's only got really really shite since Xmas. That's what, three episodes? The long slow slide into decline was just about bearable.


----------



## belboid (May 8, 2013)

It hasn't even been entirely shite since christmas.  I thought this weeks was really rather good, less of the mutli-series storyline, and just concentrating on one good, comedic, episode. Dame Diana was marvellous, finally allowed to speak in her own accent.

On the ongoing sexism thing....last week we had Clara taking the piss out of his sexist assumptions, this week he actually got a slap for them.  Are they slowly but surely ratchetting the question up till it becomes an important plot point at the end of the series?  Might it even be a hint at the next regeneration leading to the new Doc being ... a woman??!!  (not that there will be a new doc for at least one more series.)


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2013)

belboid said:
			
		

> It hasn't even been entirely shite since christmas. I thought this weeks was really rather good, less of the mutli-series storyline, and just concentrating on one good, comedic, episode


Indeed. I also enjoyed the Tardis episode.  (And the Cold War one, and the Slow Ghost one).


----------



## kittyP (May 8, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> andrew lincoln?


 
The lead guy from Teachers. 
Or was the ? for why him rather than who is he?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 8, 2013)

kittyP said:


> The lead guy from Teachers.
> Or was the ? for why him rather than who is he?


He'll always be Egg to me.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 8, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Indeed. I also enjoyed the Tardis episode. (And the Cold War one, and the Slow Ghost one).


 
Me too. The Ghost one was even better.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 8, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> He'll always be Egg to me.


 
I'd always worry that his assistant would be fucking an older Timelord behind his back.


----------



## spanglechick (May 8, 2013)

kittyP said:


> The lead guy from Teachers.
> Or was the ? for why him rather than who is he?


It was a "what do you think about Andrew Lincoln doing it?" question.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 10, 2013)

Neil Gaiman and Matt Smitt introduce this weeks ep 


Spoiler


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2013)

Corax said:


> This thread does make me laugh though tbh.
> 
> Some episodes and/or characters are better than others, but you know what? I enjoy *all* of them. All this in-depth analysis of internal logic, consistency of motivation and characterisation - I just don't care. It's Doctor Who FFS. It is, and has always been, a light entertainment show. It's not Arthur C Clarke, Isaac Asimov, Alistair Reynolds, or even Iain M Banks. It's Saturday night telly, and it's fab.
> 
> ...


 
Just watched last weeks episode, ace, well scary, especially Diana Rigg who was great, though dunking the victims in the vats did remind me a bit of Carry On screaming.


----------



## treelover (May 10, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> I guess it's just that we all look for different things in our entertainment, and that's just as it should be. I can see why a large amount of people will be just watching and enjoying and sometimes thinking "well that was a duff ep" and then thinking "that one was awesome" - there's plenty of stuff I watch like that too. But sometimes I (and presumably others) have things I look at a bit deeper, whether it's doing a bit of social criticism on it, or picking apart what happens in various episodes, etc. The point about it not being Asimov or whatever isn't relevant - there's social/literary criticism to be had in every single piece of cultural production, the only thing that matters is whether you care to look at something in that way or not.


 
Maybe the 'The Crimson Horror' episode was a critique of industrial capitalism and an attack on how the 'other' the poor, disabled, etc were seen and treated...


----------



## Epona (May 10, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I vote Paterson Joseph, *again*.


 
Yes this - I would love to see Paterson Joseph as the Doctor, I was hoping he'd be picked last time around. He'd be great in the role. I think although Matt Smith has been good, I'll be perpetually disappointed with him simply because he's not Paterson Joseph.

Edit: Cyberman story tomorrow isn't it?


----------



## ginger_syn (May 11, 2013)

Another thoroughly entertaining episode, the changes in the Doctors behaviour are interesting, I do find strax a bit irritating though, but that is my only gripe with the episode.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2013)

how can you hate the comedy potato head


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> how can you hate the comedy potato head


 
No-one hates Ian Hislop!


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 11, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I vote Paterson Joseph, *again*.


 
Having seen him play the decidedly Doctor-esque Marquis de Carabas in Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere and own the entire series in the process I would fucking love for this to happen.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> Having seen him play the decidedly Doctor-esque Marquis de Carabas in Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere and own the entire series in the process I would fucking love for this to happen.


 

he REALLY looks the part as de carabas. The tattered finery, leather threnchcoat, motley atire etc.

Problem is, I'd only be able to see him as Johnson now


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> how can you hate the comedy potato head


 
If you're referring to James Corden your description is inaccurate. In order to be described as 'comedy' you must surely have to do something funny at least once in your life, even if it's by accident. James Corden is the least funny thing known to science.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> he REALLY looks the part as de carabas. The tattered finery, leather threnchcoat, motley atire etc.
> 
> Problem is, I'd only be able to see him as Johnson now


 
I've started to see Johnson as de Carabas with a sterner haircut tbh


----------



## Corax (May 11, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> If you're referring to James Corden your description is inaccurate. In order to be described as 'comedy' you must surely have to do something funny at least once in your life, even if it's by accident. James Corden is the least funny thing known to science.


Not sure if...


----------



## gosub (May 11, 2013)

spookyfrank earlier


----------



## felixthecat (May 11, 2013)

OMG cybermen.
Shivers up the back already - I was completely terrified by them as a kid.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 11, 2013)

I wouldn't normally advocate child abuse, but I'm swithering on that point watching this.

Edit: Not the most well thought out post ever, but I'll leave it here


----------



## agricola (May 11, 2013)

That wasnt entirely rubbish.


----------



## youngian (May 11, 2013)

Warwick Davis is not the Emperor and is in big trouble with the Supreme Being.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 11, 2013)

That ended up being pretty damned good. Goodness me, Matt Smith is a very gifted actor.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2013)

good to see the vampire copper from being human as the evil man again


----------



## Greebo (May 11, 2013)

Makeover of the Tardis again


----------



## Quartz (May 11, 2013)

Smith needs to learn how to do a two-sided soliloquy from Andy Serkis.


----------



## barney_pig (May 11, 2013)

I enjoyed that, the series is starting to find its feet, just as it ends


----------



## Leafster (May 11, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> good to see the vampire copper from being human as the evil man again


I was trying to work out where I'd seen him before - thanks! 

I thought that was a pretty good episode.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2013)

Leafster said:


> I was trying to work out where I'd seen him before - thanks!
> 
> I thought that was a pretty good episode.


 

It's nice to see a man who can do avuncular-but-bordering-on-creepy get some work ennit


----------



## Balbi (May 11, 2013)

Tamsin Outhwaite - I remember her!

Not as good as the other Gaiman penned ep, and Doctor's pervyness over Clara near the end made me roll my eyes.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 11, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Smith needs to learn how to do a two-sided soliloquy from Andy Serkis.


Yes, sadly this stuck out like a sore thumb in an otherwise fairly decent jaunt (for a change).
His 'cyber' half was oddly a better turn, but when he did this doubled with his doctor, his doctor was shite.

The 'finding the assistant attractive' bits of dialogue were terrible though, and felt like they had been written in afterwards to bring it in line (make it shit like)  to the rest of the series.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 11, 2013)

Balbi said:


> and Doctor's pervyness over Clara near the end made me roll my eyes.


 
I think this may have been added dialogue, it seemed so clumsy.


----------



## Bajie (May 11, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I think this may have been added dialogue, it seemed so clumsy.


 
I have read a fair chunk of everything Neil Gaiman has ever written, and that bit of dialogue is very out of step with his usual style, so yes I think too it was added in and some of the other stuff about Clara as well to bring it in line with the corniness of the previous episodes.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 11, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Not as good as the other Gaiman penned ep, and Doctor's pervyness over Clara near the end made me roll my eyes.


 
I _think _it was evil cyber genius talking right at the end, that way it actually makes sense rather than just being a creepy and pointless line thrown in at the end for no reason.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2013)

Bajie said:


> I have read a fair chunk of everything Neil Gaiman has ever written, and that bit of dialogue is very out of step with his usual style, so yes I think too it was added in and some of the other stuff about Clara as well to bring it in line with the corniness of the previous episodes.


 

I wouldn't be so sure, remember gaiman loves to have himself....sorry his main protagonist hook up with kooky girls.

He's married to the lead singer from the Dresden Dolls ffs.


----------



## Quartz (May 12, 2013)

Hmm... could it just be possible that Clara is the Doctor's next incarnation?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 12, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Hmm... could it just be possible that Clara is the Doctor's next incarnation?


 
That doesn't explain her deaths.


----------



## Quartz (May 12, 2013)

Did we actually ever see her die?


----------



## captainmission (May 12, 2013)

A good episode, but it had potential to be a lot better. Was let down by shoddy direction of action and horror scenes . But then the horror scene for most of the series have been not all that effective. 

Also if they're gonna give us a rag tag bunch of space marines give us flawed broken people rather than a random assortment of extras off the bill.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 12, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Did we actually ever see her die?


 
Well no but she was trapped in the body of a dalek and abandoned on a planet which then exploded which doesn't bode well for her chances. And the current Clara doesn't seem to remember being a dalek or a governess in C18th London.

Basically, if it turns out she's actually survived those two deaths somehow it would be an appalling cop out.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 12, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> I _think _it was evil cyber genius talking right at the end, that way it actually makes sense rather than just being a creepy and pointless line thrown in at the end for no reason.


 
Actually, watching it again I don't think it was. When the Doctor swivels round and says, 'what are you?' in an angry voice I thought he was talking to his evil alter ego (who had just done the creepy and pointless monologue) but it looks like he's talking to the departed Clara.

I really can't see Gaiman writing a line like that. It must've been tacked on for the benefit of those with no attention span who had somehow forgotten about the BIG MYSTERY that had been referenced half a dozen times in the episode already 

On the other hand, 'you're too short and bossy and your nose is all funny' was a great line and very well delivered.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 12, 2013)

They've said that Clara's met him more than 3 times. Whatever that means.


----------



## Gromit (May 12, 2013)

Gaiman is a great writer which is why I found the end of this one really disappointing.

They do the one thing they were saying they shouldn't do from the start then are magically saved Deus Ex.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 12, 2013)

anyone complaining about deus ex in sci fi should be dragged out and shot. It's practically the reason detre, rodney


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 12, 2013)

Nice emperor  davis


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2013)

very good episode, only let down by the fact that the female child actor is absolutely dreadful


----------



## Gromit (May 12, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> That ended up being pretty damned good. Goodness me, Matt Smith is a very gifted actor.



Warwick Davis acted circles around Smith.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 12, 2013)

yeah the cyber controller needed to be different from him.   


i wanted more of Warwick Davis


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 12, 2013)

The chess-playing dwarf-powered cyberman in the World of Wonders reminded me of gaffed card-playing dwarf-powered Abdullah in Robertson Davies's novel _World of Wonders_.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 12, 2013)

Gromit said:


> Gaiman is a great writer which is why I found the end of this one really disappointing.
> 
> They do the one thing they were saying they shouldn't do from the start then are magically saved Deus Ex.


No they aren't.  Deus Ex would be if the Emporer turned up in the last scene, never having been seen before.  But he was there all the way through, and the clues were there too.  That's the opposite of Deus Ex Machina.


----------



## emanymton (May 12, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> No they aren't. Deus Ex would be if the Emporer turned up in the last scene, never having been seen before. But he was there all the way through, and the clues were there too. That's the opposite of Deus Ex Machina.


Also all the fuss about not blowing up the planet made me think it was possible they might blow up the planet at some point.


----------



## emanymton (May 12, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> I _think _it was evil cyber genius talking right at the end, that way it actually makes sense rather than just being a creepy and pointless line thrown in at the end for no reason.


So you think there is still some of the cyber controller left in his head?

They couldn't be pulling the same trick as they did before and showing us the episodes in the order they happen for Clara rather than the order they happen to the Doctor? If this was the first story for the doctor it could explain why his behavior has been off. I can't see them doing the same thing again though, but there was that bit were she said see you next Wednesday and he said or last Wednesday? Red hearing?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 12, 2013)

If anyone wants to remain spoiler-free for The Name of the Doctor, I'd avoid the internet for a bit. BBC America sent out the DVD a week early. Oops.


----------



## Corax (May 12, 2013)

My turn to be a complete hypocrite and act the critic in the way I was laughing at only last week...   


TheHoodedClaw said:


> That ended up being pretty damned good. Goodness me, Matt Smith is a very gifted actor.


He is, but...

The whole facing left = cyberman, facing right = doctor bit was jarring for me.  For one thing, it's become a bit of a tired cliche for that kind of thing.  Also, it's far better suited to the stage anyway, where visual metaphor and symbolism are necessarily 'bigger' than on telly.

More down to the director than Smith though I expect.


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2013)

emanymton said:


> So you think there is still some of the cyber controller left in his head?
> 
> They couldn't be pulling the same trick as they did before and showing us the episodes in the order they happen for Clara rather than the order they happen to the Doctor? If this was the first story for the doctor it could explain why his behavior has been off. I can't see them doing the same thing again though, but there was that bit were she said see you next Wednesday and he said or last Wednesday? Red hearing?


he said 'a wednesday definitely...this wednesday, last wednesday, one of the wednesdays' - i doubt it meant more than that


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> very good episode, only let down by the fact that the female child actor is absolutely dreadful


 
She was poorly written IMO, but then there aren't many kids in Gaiman's work so maybe they're not really his thing. It would explain why they spent half the episode zombified.


----------



## CNT36 (May 12, 2013)

emanymton said:


> So you think there is still some of the cyber controller left in his head?
> 
> They couldn't be pulling the same trick as they did before and showing us the episodes in the order they happen for Clara rather than the order they happen to the Doctor? If this was the first story for the doctor it could explain why his behavior has been off. I can't see them doing the same thing again though, but there was that bit were she said see you next Wednesday and he said or last Wednesday? Red hearing?


Do you mean the first half of this series? I thought that could be case. Do you know what the order is from the doctors perspective?


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2013)

Naah, he (the Doctor) has basically said he met her in the order we've seen. Not quite sure when Asylum of the Daleks would have taken place for Clara, but it would definitely be after her Victorian appearance.


----------



## Corax (May 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> he said 'a wednesday definitely...this wednesday, last wednesday, one of the wednesdays' - i doubt it meant more than that


Wednesday Next?


----------



## barney_pig (May 12, 2013)

belboid said:


> Naah, he (the Doctor) has basically said he met her in the order we've seen. Not quite sure when Asylum of the Daleks would have taken place for Clara, but it would definitely be after her Victorian appearance.


Why?


----------



## Corax (May 12, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Tamsin Outhwaite - I remember her!
> 
> Not as good as the other Gaiman penned ep, and Doctor's pervyness over Clara near the end made me roll my eyes.


I strongly disliked the forced kiss in the previous episode, but I didn't think this was offensive in that way.  When we fall for someone, we often simultaneously find them physically attractive.  He was on his own, talking out loud only to himself, and surprised himself when he realised he fancies her.  That's not "pervy" IMO.  Every relationship in history is riddled with pervyness if it is.


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2013)

barney_pig said:


> Why?


cos Rory and Amy are getting divorced in it, sometime close to the present day


----------



## Balbi (May 12, 2013)

Erm. Don't read the wiki page for this episode. It has a supposed spoiler in that I hope isn't true.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 12, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Erm. Don't read the wiki page for this episode. It has a supposed spoiler in that I hope isn't true.


Next weeks or this weeks?


----------



## Balbi (May 12, 2013)

This weeks.


----------



## Gromit (May 12, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> No they aren't.  Deus Ex would be if the Emporer turned up in the last scene, never having been seen before.  But he was there all the way through, and the clues were there too.  That's the opposite of Deus Ex Machina.



Thats not the Deus. The deus is the handy spaceship in orbit with transmat. Transmat invariably = deus ex in almost every Dr Who its been in. Apart from one where it was used for a pretty cool game of cat and mouse.

TBH they couldv'e just blown up the planet at the start and saved an entire episode of running about.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 12, 2013)

Balbi said:


> This weeks.


 
I just read it. I don't see a spoiler.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 12, 2013)

Gromit said:


> Thats not the Deus. The deus is the handy spaceship in orbit with transmat. Transmat invariably = deus ex in almost every Dr Who its been in. Apart from one where it was used for a pretty cool game of cat and mouse.
> 
> TBH they couldv'e just blown up the planet at the start and saved an entire episode of running about.


 
Ah cybermen. Everyone get in the tardis. Right we are off. Blow up the planet.


----------



## barney_pig (May 12, 2013)

Just seen the trailer on bbc 1, looks like a massive spoiler in it


----------



## Santino (May 12, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> The chess-playing dwarf-powered cyberman in the World of Wonders reminded me of gaffed card-playing dwarf-powered Abdullah in Robertson Davies's novel _World of Wonders_.


Based on a real thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turk


----------



## Pingu (May 12, 2013)

that one was ok... there is hope for the rest of the series BUT... again with the sonic screwdriver...


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 12, 2013)

http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/d...he-name-of-the-doctor-leaked-in-us-error.html


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 12, 2013)

the fukkers haven't uploaded it yet  ,

that's if they are telling the truth...


----------



## CNT36 (May 12, 2013)

Santino said:


> Based on a real thing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Turk


I was reading about that on Friday night oddly enough. There was a computer in the terminator tv series named after it.


----------



## kittyP (May 13, 2013)

Gosh those kids need their legs slapping. 
It was a stupid episode


----------



## ginger_syn (May 13, 2013)

Yet another good episode, liked the cybermites they were quite cute once I realised they had legs, found the kids easier to cope with once I thought of them as a metaphor for a portion of fandom, the ones that post as the show the show airs usually throwing in an "I'm Bored" ten minutes in. By the way is it a bit wrong that I really liked the cyberdoctor, he did have such a wicked twinkle in his eyes.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 13, 2013)

Gromit said:


> TBH they couldv'e just blown up the planet at the start and saved an entire episode of running about.


They could have all got in the Tardis and escaped in almost every episode ever.  That's the problem (for writers) of having a Tardis.

The thing is, when they kept going on about blowing up the planet, they obviously wanted to signal to us that the planet was going to be blown up.  Especially with Porridge/the Emperor telling us about a galaxy being blown up, and how he felt sorry for the person who had to do it (him).


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> I was reading about that on Friday night oddly enough. There was a computer in the terminator tv series named after it.


 
Two computers. Sarah Connor torched the house containing the original and destroyed it, so the chess geek built another one, which is the one that supposedly is part of the assemblage that becomes Skynet.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Gosh those kids need their legs slapping.
> It was a stupid episode


 
The whininess of the girl was grating, as was her "Kevin and Perry" impersonation.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> Yet another good episode, liked the cybermites they were quite cute once I realised they had legs, found the kids easier to cope with once I thought of them as a metaphor for a portion of fandom, the ones that post as the show the show airs usually throwing in an "I'm Bored" ten minutes in. By the way is it a bit wrong that I really liked the cyberdoctor, he did have such a wicked twinkle in his eyes.


 
Nice reference to Cybermats, too.


----------



## barney_pig (May 13, 2013)

The radio trailers might as well be waving a fucking big sign now.


----------



## Quartz (May 13, 2013)

I've just read that Matt Smith isn't confirmed for the next season. Here's hoping we get a regeneration.


----------



## Corax (May 13, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> They could have all got in the Tardis and escaped in almost every episode ever. That's the problem (for writers) of having a Tardis.
> 
> The thing is, when they kept going on about blowing up the planet, they obviously wanted to signal to us that the planet was going to be blown up. Especially with Porridge/the Emperor telling us about a galaxy being blown up, and how he felt sorry for the person who had to do it (him).


Was it the emperor that pushed that button?  Or was it The Doctor?  I'm undecided.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 13, 2013)

Quartz said:


> I've just read that Matt Smith isn't confirmed for the next season. Here's hoping we get a regeneration.


 
I doubt they'd have kept it quiet if they'd cast someone else. That said, the show would be a lot more fun if we didn't know in advance when he's gonna 'die' and who he's gonna come back as. He'll not be dying this week though I suppose, as him and Tennant are both in the next special.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 13, 2013)

Well I've read the supposed spoiler. tbh, I wouldn't put it past them to be lying about the leak so that it creates a buzz, but idk.

Anyway, it just reiterates my desire for Moffat to fuck the fuck off into a big pile of fuckoff. If it's true, of course.

If it isn't, I still want Moffat to fuck the fuck off into a big pile of fuckoff.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 13, 2013)

Quartz said:


> I've just read that Matt Smith isn't confirmed for the next season. Here's hoping we get a regeneration.


I think he could be great, he is just badly written.

I thought Tennant was a great choice until I saw him in action. Never quite worked for me.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 13, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Well I've read the supposed spoiler. tbh, I wouldn't put it past them to be lying about the leak so that it creates a buzz, but idk.
> 
> Anyway, it just reiterates my desire for Moffat to fuck the fuck off into a big pile of fuckoff. If it's true, of course.
> 
> If it isn't, I still want Moffat to fuck the fuck off into a big pile of fuckoff.


 
Oh, I might just go ahead and read it then. All this talk of 'spoiling the fun' won't be worth squat if it the 'fun' is just a long drawing out sigh / groan.


----------



## stuff_it (May 13, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> the fukkers haven't uploaded it yet  ,
> 
> that's if they are telling the truth...


Still no sign of it online. 

I don't expect much from this next episode. Apparently there is meant to be some whizz-bang 3D special in November. Wonder if they will title it 'The kiss of death'.


----------



## Kuso (May 13, 2013)

There's no way we'll actually find out the Doctor's name is there?  We'd fucking better not, that'd just be shit


----------



## gosub (May 13, 2013)

Kuso said:


> There's no way we'll actually find out the Doctor's name is there? We'd fucking better not, that'd just be shit


especially if its Colin or Nigel


----------



## Corax (May 13, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I thought Tennant was a great choice until I saw him in action. Never quite worked for me.


You're dead to me.


----------



## Corax (May 13, 2013)

gosub said:


> especially if its Colin or Nigel


Dave.  He's definitely called Dave.  Dave Doctor.


----------



## Kuso (May 13, 2013)

Corax said:


> Dave. He's definitely called Dave. Dave Doctor.


 
Doctor Dave surely?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 13, 2013)

Also . . . Moffat seems to believe that we all care what the doctors name is. We don't. If a name is mentioned it is just one that a writer has made up for a man that has not had a name for 50 years. Never before has it been a matter to concern anyone, it's not a big mystery.
Give him a name and it just ruins the 'man with no name' aspect about him. Introducing that he even has a name and that is a secret is annoying in itself. Fuck of river song, relationships and all that guff.


----------



## Kuso (May 13, 2013)

I liked River and that whole story line.  Why does it even matter what his name is? Does it give him super powers (another upgrade for the sonic perhaps?) or give people super powers over him?  

What is it, "The Silence must fall when the question is asked"? The blue head says that's a better translation than 'silence will fall', and of course the question is doctor who.  So what's so fantastic about his name that it defeats the silence?

Maybe he's called Clara?


----------



## AverageJoe (May 13, 2013)

His name is a key, a verbal code that will unlock something


eta - thats a spurious guess btw


----------



## gosub (May 13, 2013)

AverageJoe said:


> His name is a key, a verbal code that will unlock something
> 
> 
> eta - thats a spurious guess btw


 
Leaves him vulnerable to Carrionites


----------



## CNT36 (May 13, 2013)

AverageJoe said:


> His name is a key, a verbal code that will unlock something
> 
> 
> eta - thats a spurious guess btw


Like with Willow last week but better? My money is on Harmony Puddle.


----------



## Kuso (May 13, 2013)

I'm just worries they're gonna proper ruin it for me with this name business n all


----------



## Kuso (May 13, 2013)

gosub said:


> Leaves him vulnerable to Carrionites


 


> The true form of a Carrionite resembled a giant skeletalraven or crow. They were able to assume a more humanoid form but this used a lot of energy, and so they usually had wrinkled skin, large, clawed hands, and sharp canine teeth. *The Carrionite **Lilith could assume the form of a beautiful young woman, a trick she used to ensnare male victims.*



Clara?


----------



## Gromit (May 13, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Also . . . Moffat seems to believe that we all care what the doctors name is. We don't. If a name is mentioned it is just one that a writer has made up for a man that has not had a name for 50 years. Never before has it been a matter to concern anyone, it's not a big mystery.
> Give him a name and it just ruins the 'man with no name' aspect about him. Introducing that he even has a name and that is a secret is annoying in itself. Fuck of river song, relationships and all that guff.



I always thought Doctor was his name. Timelords name themselves as to their presumed nature. Masternamed himself for his nature to dominate. Doctor to heal.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 13, 2013)

I can buy the Rani being a bit queeny, but what's a Rassilon?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 13, 2013)

Gromit said:


> I always thought Doctor was his name. Timelords name themselves as to their presumed nature. Masternamed himself for his nature to dominate. Doctor to heal.


 
Well even that idea was a recent invention.


----------



## Corax (May 13, 2013)

Kuso said:


> Doctor Dave surely?


No, Doctor just happens to be his surname.  Like 'Smith' or 'Carpenter'.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 13, 2013)

What and 'The' is his first name?


----------



## Corax (May 13, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What and 'The' is his first name?


No, that's his nickname you doofus.  Got it at school when he was 12 after the girls started saying he had 'healing hands' when he was giving away after-class shoulder rubs.  The sly bugger.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 13, 2013)

its john smith , we already know it, obv .. 

no its not a spoiler , i havent got a clue...

eta I dont want to know anyways


----------



## BoxRoom (May 13, 2013)

I always thought his name was supposed to be unpronounceable. Maybe it's Colin Unpronounceable.

Been a bit of a shame for me personally, all this new Who stuff. Thought Chris could have done a better 2nd season, or even half season before Tennant came in. Bit gutted Tennant quit when RTD did because he was great in Moffatt episodes and would have been intriguing to see what would have happened. But now I'm concerned that Smith will fuck off when Moffatt does, and Moffatt needs to very much. Would like to see Smith under different showrunner who appreciates how incredible he can be rather than the fuckfest we're getting now.

IMO


----------



## stuff_it (May 13, 2013)

gosub said:


> especially if its Colin or Nigel


 
Though it would explain why he's so careful to keep it a secret.


----------



## Kuso (May 13, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> its john smith , we already know it, obv ..
> 
> no its not a spoiler , i havent got a clue...
> 
> eta I dont want to know anyways


 
It's be quite funny if it turned out to be the Galifreyan (sp?) for John Smith PhD


----------



## Wilf (May 13, 2013)

Sorry, I don't know how to do this spoiler alert thing, but his name is...



















Jimmy Savile.


----------



## Gromit (May 13, 2013)

BoxRoom said:


> I always thought his name was supposed to be unpronounceable. Maybe it's Colin Unpronounceable.
> 
> Been a bit of a shame for me personally, all this new Who stuff. Thought Chris could have done a better 2nd season, or even half season before Tennant came in. Bit gutted Tennant quit when RTD did because he was great in Moffatt episodes and would have been intriguing to see what would have happened. But now I'm concerned that Smith will fuck off when Moffatt does, and Moffatt needs to very much. Would like to see Smith under different showrunner who appreciates how incredible he can be rather than the fuckfest we're getting now.
> 
> IMO



Tennant was shit.

Ecklescake was the best doctor ever followed by Tom Baker.


----------



## barney_pig (May 14, 2013)

Gromit said:


> Tennant was shit.
> 
> Pertwee was the best doctor ever followed by Tom Baker.


Corrected for you


----------



## Leafster (May 14, 2013)

I'd have to agree with you barney but I think that's because I started watching Doctor Who during Patrick Troughton's stint but was a bit young to really enjoy it until Pertwee came along.


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 14, 2013)

The Doctor doesn't need to be all 'like me like me' 'oh isn't he so wonderful' - which is how hes been written since tennant. Think of characters like Sherlock Holmes or David Suchets poirot - their arrogant, vain and egotistical but charismatic and brilliant.  Pertwee was the best for this - and I think ecclescake was going that way till he walked.

The next doctor should more of a brilliant, dysfunctional, charismatic bastard. Older. Not with magic wand superpowers. And not have yet another 'feisty babe du jour' mooning over him. David Morrissey when he thought he was the doctor in that christmas one was nearer the mark. Instead we'll probably get someone like Jim Carey or Lee Evans.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 14, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> I can buy the Rani being a bit queeny, but what's a Rassilon?


 
Or a Romana?


----------



## Gromit (May 14, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> The Doctor doesn't need to be all 'like me like me' 'oh isn't he so wonderful' - which is how hes been written since tennant. Think of characters like Sherlock Holmes or David Suchets poirot - their arrogant, vain and egotistical but charismatic and brilliant.  Pertwee was the best for this - and I think ecclescake was going that way till he walked.
> 
> The next doctor should more of a brilliant, dysfunctional, charismatic bastard. Older. Not with magic wand superpowers. And not have yet another 'feisty babe du jour' mooning over him. David Morrissey when he thought he was the doctor in that christmas one was nearer the mark. Instead we'll probably get someone like Jim Carey or Lee Evans.



What i refer to as House syndrome. Ever since House the fucked up brilliant hero has been so in vogue.


----------



## kabbes (May 14, 2013)

The fucked-up brilliant hero has been in vogue at least since The Odyssey


----------



## Santino (May 14, 2013)

Gilgamesh was a bit emo.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 16, 2013)

http://io9.com/the-central-problem-with-steven-moffats-doctor-who-507670201

Some very good comments underneath that article, a lot of which I heartily agree with.

It's getting more and more critical press this series.


----------



## stuff_it (May 16, 2013)

So judging by all the streaming sites that was pure lies and propaganda about the leak.


----------



## spanglechick (May 16, 2013)

gosub said:


> Leaves him vulnerable to Carrionites


i love that episode - but until now i thought it was 'carrier knights'.


----------



## spanglechick (May 16, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> Like with Willow last week but better? My money is on Harmony Puddle.


Ditty Drip


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 16, 2013)

Not that I could give a shit. I'm not particularly looking forward to the episode.


----------



## ginger_syn (May 17, 2013)

I am


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 17, 2013)

Ive seen some very interesting schreenshots for Saturday's ep which has got my interest, but the rest of this series hasnt been up to scratch tbh, hopefully they can redeem themselves this week...


----------



## kabbes (May 17, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> http://io9.com/the-central-problem-with-steven-moffats-doctor-who-507670201
> 
> Some very good comments underneath that article, a lot of which I heartily agree with.
> 
> It's getting more and more critical press this series.


I wouldn't mind the overly portentous approach and the placing of the Doctor at the centre of the universe if Moffat just had the skill to deliver on his promises.  But he doesn't.  Time after time, there is an epic set-up that is resolved by some hand-waving, by anticlimax or even just by ignoring it and hoping it goes away.  It's frustrating as hell.  This Doctor's name thing is almost certainly a case in point (I've not seen it yet, mind, so I'm hoping to be wrong).  The Doctor's name is SO important as to create an entire religious cult devoted to preventing it being said, and risking the shattering of the universe in doing so.  It has been set up to be something of awesome and unutterable power.  Something either unimaginably horrific or wonderful.  Unless Moffat can deliver precisely that, we will feel conned.


----------



## captainmission (May 17, 2013)

but it's not like we're gonna hear the name though is it? it'll be whispered, or off screen, or 'the dr lies' or some such.

But on the bright side at least its not RTD writing, in which case his name would be time lord word for 'love' and when spoken he'd radiate golden energy across all the children of universe.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 17, 2013)

I remember when we didn't know Morse's first name. 

My guess for the Doctor's is Undertake.


----------



## kabbes (May 18, 2013)

We never learnt Columbo's first name. We never met Columbo's wife. The world is better for it.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 18, 2013)

kabbes said:


> We never learnt Columbo's first name. We never met Columbo's wife. The world is better for it.


Nor, indeed, do we ever see Fat Brenda in Corrie. Nor Mrs Mainwairing in Dad's Army.  Nor Maris Crane in Frazier.

I like those things.


----------



## stuff_it (May 18, 2013)

Right, you're all going to laugh but what time is this actually on? I always forget and watch it on catch-up.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 18, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Right, you're all going to laugh but what time is this actually on? I always forget and watch it on catch-up.


 
7pm.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 18, 2013)

stuff_it said:
			
		

> Right, you're all going to laugh but what time is this actually on? I always forget and watch it on catch-up.



I didn't laugh.  I could do with a laugh.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 18, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I didn't laugh.  I could do with a laugh.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 18, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:
			
		

> YouTube Video



Cheers.


----------



## Kuso (May 18, 2013)

Didn't realise this was the finale, thought it'd have at least been a two parter.  There hasn't been one this series has there?


----------



## stuff_it (May 18, 2013)

Kuso said:


> Didn't realise this was the finale, thought it'd have at least been a two parter. There hasn't been one this series has there?


This is all a big run up to the 3D special in November. Do pay attention. 

http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/50th-multi-doctor-teaser-the-light-at-the-end-45432.htm

It will be 100 minutes.


----------



## Kuso (May 18, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> This is all a big run up to the 3D special in November. Do pay attention.
> 
> http://doctorwhotv.co.uk/50th-multi-doctor-teaser-the-light-at-the-end-45432.htm
> 
> It will be 100 minutes.


 
ohhhhhhhhh, didn't realise that


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 18, 2013)

Reaction to pre-credit sequence: oh do fuck off.

Let's hope it gets better.


----------



## Kuso (May 18, 2013)

what the fuck???


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 18, 2013)

Wow. John Hurt. That was a bit unexpected.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 18, 2013)

"That man is not The Doctor"

~Introducing John Hurt as The Doctor~

Right you are, then...


----------



## agricola (May 18, 2013)

That bit where the caption JOHN HURT IS THE DOCTOR appeared was actually laughable, the rest merely a little dull.


----------



## ruffneck23 (May 18, 2013)

hmm, not bad but I am left a bit wtf myself...


----------



## Kuso (May 18, 2013)

who is he? what'd he do? I'm confused  is he the "doctor" that killed all the time lords and daleks and then the "doctor" took the name after that to atone for it? or wha?


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 18, 2013)

Well.

We all knew John Hurt was going to be in that role though, right? Or was that just me? He told the newspapers, for goodness sake. >_>

So, all this stuff about choosing the name. Not in the name of the Doctor, etc. I really, really wanted him to be the Master. John Hurt as the Master would be fucking brilliant. Although, John Hurt as the Doctor would be too.

If it hadn't been for us seeing the Doctor and the Master together as children then I would have said that somehow the doctor is the master, and his earlier and later timelines were crossing whenever we'd seen the master before. That'd be pretty awesome. Also pretty naff.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 18, 2013)

Kuso said:


> who is he? what'd he do? I'm confused  is he the "doctor" that killed all the time lords and daleks and then the "doctor" took the name after that to atone for it? or wha?


 
That's not a bad idea....


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 18, 2013)

God I wish Clara really had died though.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 18, 2013)

I had no idea about John Hurt.

Fuck, that episode was AMAZING!!!!!!!!


----------



## Kuso (May 18, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Well.
> 
> We all knew John Hurt was going to be in that role though, right? Or was that just me? He told the newspapers, for goodness sake. >_>



No, I'd no idea whatsoever!


----------



## Kuso (May 18, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> I had no idea about John Hurt.
> 
> Fuck, that episode was AMAZING!!!!!!!!


 
I actually really enjoyed it, but it could have done with being longer- a bit of build up and tension to the WTF moment


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 18, 2013)

I had no idea either and I thought that was great.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 18, 2013)

One of the names of The Doctor mentioned was The Valeyard. Can't see them going down that route, but I'm intrigued anyway about John Hurt's "Doctor". There's a bit of a theme in this episode of multiple identities, and being split into parts, so I guess it'll be down that route for the 50th anniversary episode.

Anyway, good episode.

Also, Strax in Glasgow = lol


----------



## Kuso (May 18, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> One of the names of The Doctor mentioned was The Valeyard. Can't see them going down that route, but I'm intrigued anyway about John Hurt's "Doctor". There's a bit of a theme in this episode of multiple identities, and being split into parts, so I guess it'll be down that route for the 50th anniversary episode.
> 
> Anyway, good episode.


 
when'd he say The Valeyard? Only knowing new Who I had to google it but sounds intriguing


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 18, 2013)

Withnail talking about the Doctor's future names.


----------



## Kuso (May 18, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Withnail talking about the Doctor's future names.


 
oh yes... (Withnail )


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 18, 2013)

I also really don't like the 'reveal' as it's totally for the audience, it's nothing to do with the story. It's just completely about "oh shit, it's John Hurt!". I can't believe they even went as far as inserting captions onto it, totally took you out of it.

I've managed to keep away for any spoilers so I have no idea where Hurt fits into all this...


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 18, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Also, Strax in Glasgow = lol


I maintain they should get their own series. Would be a far better spin off than Torchwood.

"Hand over your women and intellectuals"


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 18, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> I maintain they should get their own series. Would be a far better spin off than Torchwood.
> 
> "Hand over your women and intellectuals"


 
We are being softened up for just such a thing because people like you on the Internet are being paid to demand it.

So if Merrick is the 12th (or first) doc, that's the regeneration count used up.


----------



## spanglechick (May 18, 2013)

i quite liked that.  river, if i concentrated very hard on ignoring the last series, was restrained and genuine.  the goodbye made me mist up, a little bit. (also made me happy, cos that's it, right? no more river?)

however, dramatically the story would have been much more satisfying if clara had stayed dead/shattered/echoey.  the fact that she didn't has more to do with contracts and marketing and all that commercial bollocks, than it does in serving the story.  in a novel, she'd have died. 

so, everything at the very end stopped serving today's episode. which left it feeling a little wooly, whereas, up until the last five mins or so it worked.  but that's the problem with ongoing serials: he need to 'teaser' the next episode, especially if it comes after a big gap.


so, accepting that as a necessary evil...  john hurt! squeeeeeeee!

i was a bit wtf when they flashed his name up though. like, pretty much *during* the episode.  very odd.


----------



## Greebo (May 18, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> <snip>So if Merrick is the 12th (or first) doc, that's the regeneration count used up.


Not if the regeneration limit is conveniently thrown out of the window - it's been mentioned before that time lords were/are physically able to regenerate as many times as they chose/choose, but they sort of agreed to limit how many times they'd do it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 18, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> i was a bit wtf when they flashed his name up though. like, pretty much *during* the episode. very odd.


Yeah, I think that was a pretty big misstep.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 18, 2013)

Greebo said:


> Not if the regeneration limit is conveniently thrown out of the window - it's been mentioned before that time lords were/are physically able to regenerate as many times as they chose/choose, but they sort of agreed to limit how many times they'd do it.


 
There's enough canon to support either argument but clearly it's unlikely that the show will be ended out of continuity purism.


----------



## stuff_it (May 18, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> hmm, not bad but I am left a bit wtf myself...


It's a set up for the 50th anniversary episode/special.

He can't be the next doctor as he is clearly the Gallifreyan soon to be known as The Doctor.



Spoiler



Yes the anniversary episode is a multi-Dr episode


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 18, 2013)

I liked that The Doc thought he would end up one day retiring to take up, amongst other things, bee-keeping. Moffat putting another Holmes reference in.


----------



## Santino (May 18, 2013)

The 12 regenerations thing has already been chucked out. Smith or Tennant mentioned 500 or something in (I think) a Sarah Jane episode.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 18, 2013)

Santino said:


> a Sarah Jane episode.


 
Which has roughly the same canonicity as a New Adventures novel which suggests that Time Lord personas are woven on looms from the start.


----------



## Quartz (May 18, 2013)

So, a mere 6 months to wait.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 18, 2013)

Is John Hurt  a very old McGann doctor?  The doctor on the way to being the valeyard? 

or some timywimny bollocks....


----------



## Santino (May 18, 2013)

I think it will be something to do with time travel.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 18, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> or some timywimny bollocks....


 
Perhaps you should stop watching a show about a time traveller if the timeywimey stuff upsets you?


----------



## stuff_it (May 18, 2013)

Quartz said:


> So, a mere 6 months to wait.


Do pay attention. November, and of course Xmas.


----------



## Quartz (May 18, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> Do pay attention. November, and of course Xmas.


 
Remind me, we are in the 5th month, are we not? And November is the 11th month, not the 9th, right?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 18, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Perhaps you should stop watching a show about a time traveller if the timeywimey stuff upsets you?


 
I have no problem  with time travel

i used to have no problem  with time travel in doctor who.  

I do feel in new who  the tend to just make shit up as they go along and shrug it off  with  the excuse  of timewhimy whatever.

Also they had an entire plot point about the doctor  and his own time stream and they never once mention The Blinovitch Limitation Effect.


----------



## stuff_it (May 18, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Remind me, we are in the 5th month, are we not? And November is the 11th month, not the 9th, right?


Fuck you with your maths shit. Maths is cancelled for at least a month.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 18, 2013)

i guess it feels less like  science fiction and more like fantasy.

It seems like forever  since we had a good bit of technobabble.


----------



## Helen Back (May 18, 2013)

So is John Hurt the 12th Doctor? It seems unlikely given the rigorous filming schedule. He's getting on a bit and they like to cast young guys who have the strength to cope with the role and will be around for a while afterwards if the writers want to do multi-Doc episodes later.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 18, 2013)

I would love it if he was

we need an older doctor to mix things up

Probably  it won't be explained properly.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 18, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:
			
		

> Well.
> 
> We all knew John Hurt was going to be in that role though, right? Or was that just me? He told the newspapers, for goodness sake. >_>.


I didn't know. 

I liked most of that episode very much. Except kissing people. He shouldn't keep kissing people. And the bit with the John Hurt As The Doctor during the episode. That was shit. 

I also didn't like the "run you clever boy". If that was supposed to be the first time she says it, then it didn't make sense. It had no relation to anything that was happening at that point. 

But the first three quarters of the episode were great.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 18, 2013)

That really annoyed me about  what they did to rassilon.  

No explanation about why he was alive again.  No talk of  his games.  

He was a mysterious god like figure wrapped in mystery. 


they reduced him to an angry man.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 18, 2013)

Helen Back said:
			
		

> So is John Hurt the 12th Doctor?


It's unclear exactly who he is, but he's certainly not the next Doctor. He may be the first to use the name. But I couldn't really make sense of what the Doctor meant about the name thing.


----------



## Helen Back (May 18, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I would love it if he was
> 
> we need an older doctor to mix things up
> 
> Probably it won't be explained properly.


 
He wouldn't be able to cope with all the knees bent, running around, advancing behaviour. ;-)


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 18, 2013)

well.... you could do less running about...

i need to rewatch my doctor who VHS collection to remind me what i liked so much about old who  

I think new who has its moments  but  i think the new format of   45 min  episodes  just leaves me feeling unsatisfied.  

It's like the fast food version of doctor who.


----------



## CNT36 (May 18, 2013)

Its someone Clara hasn't seen. Possibly a future doctor perhaps one the Doctor has already encountered (Perhaps the tenth in the upcoming special) or perhaps a doctor within the time lock or as it was implied Clara only went back as far as 'the beginning' shown). I enjoyed the episode but still unsure exactly what the intelligence was doing. Were its echoes attacking the Doctor over and over like Clara was running to save him. Changing stuff that Clara then changed back. Was the intelligence always one the echoes. It had no memory until it encountered Richard in the Snow if I remember correctly so perhaps that was an echo and all Paradox like.


----------



## T & P (May 18, 2013)

Funny how they didn't show any instances of Clara helping the 10th Doctor... only the old skool ones, plus a flash of someone with a leather jacket pretending to be Christopher Eccleston.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 18, 2013)

That end bit was just clara trapped at a doctor who convention as cosplayers ran passed her


----------



## AverageJoe (May 18, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> So is John Hurt the 12th Doctor? It seems unlikely given the rigorous filming schedule. He's getting on a bit and they like to cast young guys who have the strength to cope with the role and will be around for a while afterwards if the writers want to do multi-Doc episodes later.


 
He cant be the 12th Dr as the 11th Dr knew who he was and what he had done meaning that it must have been in the past. People are speculating that



Spoiler



He plays Dr Who v 8.5 (i.e just before Ecclestones 9th Dr) or Dr Who v9.5 (i.e just after Ecclestones 9th Dr) who is the one who killed all the other Timelords to stop the Time War


----------



## Epona (May 18, 2013)

That will teach me for complaining that all these one-episode stories leave no cliffhangers....

November FFS!


----------



## Epona (May 18, 2013)

6





AverageJoe said:


> He cant be the 12th Dr as the 11th Dr knew who he was and what he had done meaning that it must have been in the past. People are speculating that
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yep, I'd already heard (despite desperately trying to avoid spoilers) that



Spoiler



John Hurt is a previous 'forgotten' Doctor regeneration set in chronology between McGann and Eccleston - so you can move all the modern Doctor regeneration numbers up by one (1 Hartnell, 2 Troughton, 3 Pertwee, 4 T. Baker, 5 Davidson, 6 C. Baker, 7 McCoy, 8 McGann, 9 Hurt, 10 Eccleston, 11 Tennant, 12 Smith) - the current Doctor (and this is true of all the modern Doctors) does not remember him due to blocking out memories of the Time War, in which the John Hurt Doctor played a large part


or something along those lines!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 18, 2013)

I thought tonights was fan fucking tastic. I don't know how they got Bill Hartnell in colour but I almost came in my fucking slacks

The thoughtof Jon Hurt as the doctor fills me with a massive portion of glee.

Gallifrey Prevails!

I liked strax in this 'your reptile nature offends my sontaran purity!'

What is it with the doctor and facing down gen engineered super soldiers? dalek, cyberman sontaran etc. Its always the ubermensch


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 18, 2013)

I don't know. as much as i liked the references  like clara being dressed as the companions  i fel that   as much as they sorta  paid tribute to old who they really didn't

there  just wasn't enough  old who.


actually  what i'd have loved   from this special    wouldn't be a look into the time war.   that's  always been disappointing to me.

what   i would have loved  is  if they  did something like Trials and Tribble-ations 



this doctor  going back and appearing in classic who episodes  along  with clara  making sure the timeline was  safe


----------



## Cid (May 19, 2013)

From a financial point of view stopping now or in the near future would be bloody stupid, so I suspect they won't.


----------



## Epona (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought tonights was fan fucking tastic. I don't know how they got Bill Hartnell in colour but I almost came in my fucking slacks


 
I absolutely loved it - seeing Hartnell and short glimpses of other Doctors was superb. Massive nod to the fanbase with Clara suggesting he nick the dodgy TARDIS because it will be more fun. I really think that Strax et al need their own spin off show for a younger audience to fill the gap sadly  left by Sarah Jane Adventures, and I hope their large involvement in this series of Who is for exactly that reason.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 19, 2013)

Epona said:


> 6
> 
> Yep, I'd already heard (despite desperately trying to avoid spoilers) that
> 
> ...


 


Spoiler



Poor McGann. as much as i hated the telly movie  i didn't think  he  was that bad in it.   i kinda felt  it was appropriate  that    even if he didn't  get much screen time  he at least played a big part in canonical history.  If john hurt  is the time war doctor   that really  does leave him as a foot note.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 19, 2013)

I think ever since the TV movie canonicity has been a bit fucked.

The whole half human thing for a start.


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 19, 2013)

Epona said:


> I absolutely loved it - seeing Hartnell and short glimpses of other Doctors was superb. Massive nod to the fanbase with Clara suggesting he nick the dodgy TARDIS because it will be more fun.


I didn't like that at all. I don't really know the canon, but I didn't like the idea that he picked the TARDIS on the say so of some young upstart. Anyway, didn't the TARDIS say she picked him?


----------



## Epona (May 19, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Poor McGann. as much as i hated the telly movie i didn't think he was that bad in it. i kinda felt it was appropriate that even if he didn't get much screen time he at least played a big part in canonical history. If john hurt is the time war doctor that really does leave him as a foot note.


 
Yep 



Spoiler



I'd actually like to have seen McGann in the series, rather than just being the one-off movie Doctor, I didn't particularly like the movie, but I thought he would have made a good Doctor if put into the series - he's a good actor and would have fitted the part well, had he been in the series.


----------



## Epona (May 19, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> I didn't like that at all. I don't really know the canon, but I didn't like the idea that he picked the TARDIS on the say so of some young upstart. Anyway, didn't the TARDIS say she picked him?


 
Fair point.


----------



## Cid (May 19, 2013)

I saw McGann in a production of Roberto Gerhard's musical setting of Camus' The Plague at the Barbican a couple of years back... I don't think he'll be feeling too much loss at not being a properly acknowledged Doctor tbh.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 19, 2013)

this isn't about the actor. this is about  his doctor.

Partly because of the tv movie  and partly because of ecclestone      the 8th and 9th doctors  never  really  got a chance  at having  any depth of character.  

i also think  smith  is a little bit too close to tennent.    

this means  that  each incarnation hasn't   had  quite  the same impact  as  in classic who.


----------



## Epona (May 19, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> this isn't about the actor. this is about his doctor.


 
That, exactly. We're not here to discuss his career as an actor, we're talking about The Doctor, and whether McGann would have made a good one given more time in the role (regardless of what acting he has done since) is certainly a topic for discussion and speculation.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 19, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> I didn't like that at all. I don't really know the canon, but I didn't like the idea that he picked the TARDIS on the say so of some young upstart. Anyway, didn't the TARDIS say she picked him?


 
Absolutely how I felt as well.

And can we now finally get over the whole 'companion being the most important girl in all of history... again' thing? And just leave it. For at least 3 or 4 more series. Please. I swear, if I'd heard the phrase 'impossible girl' one more time I think I might have needed a new telly.


----------



## Cid (May 19, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> this isn't about the actor. this is about his doctor.
> 
> Partly because of the tv movie and partly because of ecclestone the 8th and 9th doctors never really got a chance at having any depth of character.
> 
> ...


 
A response to your 'poor McGann', but yeah... Both he and Ecclestone have form as extremely good actors underused by Who.


----------



## stuff_it (May 19, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Absolutely how I felt as well.
> 
> And can we now finally get over the whole 'companion being the most important girl in all of history... again' thing? And just leave it. For at least 3 or 4 more series. Please. I swear, if I'd heard the phrase 'impossible girl' one more time I think I might have needed a new telly.


It sounds like something a school teacher would say about Beryl the Peril.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 19, 2013)

I think he really would have.
The problem is the screenplay for the tv movie SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCKED

As much as I thought john simm went a bit far with the master  he was better than the crap in the tv movie

also half human?  half fucking human?

and the romance thing.  yeah i know  we still have it  but this is where it started.

but...

his acting was fine,  he  looked like a decent foppish doctor.  he  played one  who was a lot more.... soft.. when compared to the mccoy doctor

he had hits of the dandy as in the pertwee doctor and  the compassion of davison doctor

i think i would have worked

Also  I hear he was good  in the audio dramas.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 19, 2013)

Cid said:


> A response to your 'poor McGann', but yeah... Both he and Ecclestone have form as extremely good actors underused by Who.


 
I'm not sure if Who underused Ecclestone or if Ecclestone underused Who.

When you agree to be the doctor  you really have to BE the doctor  and i never felt that from him.    hios performance  felt  just like he was doing any other TV show


----------



## Epona (May 19, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Absolutely how I felt as well.
> 
> And can we now finally get over the whole 'companion being the most important girl in all of history... again' thing? And just leave it. For at least 3 or 4 more series. Please. I swear, if I'd heard the phrase 'impossible girl' one more time I think I might have needed a new telly.


 
Oh fuck yes, if I hear "The girl who...." (insert the word "waited" or "died" as appropriate) one more time, I am going to implode - it's utterly fucking ridiculous. Why does a companion of the Doctor need to be so special that she needs such a sobriquet? The Doctor's companion/assistant has always previously been one of us - a device for the Doctor to speak to the audience, but given character and personality. Whether it's been his granddaughter or teacher or highlands warrior or fellow time lord or air steward or maths genius with a badge to prove it, the assistant is us, and should not be so extraordinary. I'd prefer a return to 'normal' people as assistants.

And who in their right mind calls any woman over the age of 12 a 'girl' anyway? He's had many slaps in the face this season, but never one for that.  Clara is a WOMAN, not a female child.


----------



## Cid (May 19, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I'm not sure if Who underused Ecclestone or if Ecclestone underused Who.
> 
> When you agree to be the doctor you really have to BE the doctor and i never felt that from him. hios performance felt just like he was doing any other TV show


 
Ecclestone was an established and well respected actor before Who... Doubt we'll ever know the details of why it didn't work, but if you can't get a decent performance out of an actor like that, I doubt very much it's entirely down to him.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 19, 2013)

I think probably both side were at fault.

also i kinda think  at that point in time nobody thought it  would really last.   they probably  just  wanted  to do something.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

If john hurt is the doctor then surely it will be the same as if someone had divided by zero. Its to much. Hurt would rank as on who could steal the crown from Tom fucking Baker as the real Who. It'll turnout that he is the master or something. It would be too off the scale of win for Hurt to take the mantle full time. I haven't been a good lad.


----------



## Balbi (May 19, 2013)

Time War Doctor I reckon. Possibly Valeyard incoming, as that'd make Matt the 12th.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Time War Doctor I reckon. Possibly Valeyard incoming, as that'd make Matt the 12th.


 

I've called valeyard thrice now and its never valeyard. Once it was jon simms ffs. Called that one wrong. Its not valeyard. Its not Kandyman, the Nesteen Consciousness or the Sea Dvils. Its something else


----------



## Balbi (May 19, 2013)

Valeyard mentioned tonight though.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

Red herring. If jon hurt turns out to be the valeyard I will eat a homburg garnished with hp


----------



## Helen Back (May 19, 2013)

Hang on, didn't Matt Smith say he (Hurt) was the guy he took the title "Doctor" from? Not *THE* The Doctor but *A* The Doctor? Think "The Doctor" in Empty Child turning out to be Richard Wilson. Same title, different guy.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 19, 2013)

My six year old boy and his cousin that's having a sleepover have both been up tonight. Am sure it's Who related.

These little bundles of animated energy were transfixed by tonight's episode and I had both of them cuddling up to me by the end.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 19, 2013)

That song/rhyme my the madman at the beginning even had me a little scared!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 19, 2013)

Bah, missed it due to flying. I will have to see if someone has uploaded it somewhere as I can't get BBCi.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 19, 2013)

Helen Back said:


> Hang on, didn't Matt Smith say he (Hurt) was the guy he took the title "Doctor" from? Not *THE* The Doctor but *A* The Doctor? Think "The Doctor" in Empty Child turning out to be Richard Wilson. Same title, different guy.


Possible.  But he also said "the only person in here apart from you is me, pay attention" or something along those lines.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

Ironic that you weren't paying attention enough to remember the line correctly


----------



## Pingu (May 19, 2013)

liked the ending but the rest of it was tarnished by the rest of the series. it seemed like that last 10 minutes of house etc when they stop giving you the false diagnosis and drop the real one into the plot.

all the other episodes have really been were a build up to this one.. which was a cliff-hanger for the next series. it was without a doubt the best of the current series but I cant help but feel cheated. and again with the sonic screwdriver.. FFS someone take it off him .

bring back WHO with a bit of substance, give us a proper story not some contrived bollocks that looks like it was thought up in a planning session after 8 pints of beer and penned on the back of a handy beer mat.


----------



## frogwoman (May 19, 2013)

Pingu said:


> liked the ending but the rest of it was tarnished by the rest of the series. it seemed like that last 10 minutes of house etc when they stop giving you the false diagnosis and drop the real one into the plot.
> 
> all the other episodes have really been were a build up to this one.. which was a cliff-hanger for the next series. it was without a doubt the best of the current series but I cant help but feel cheated. and again with the sonic screwdriver.. FFS someone take it off him .
> 
> bring back WHO with a bit of substance, give us a proper story not some contrived bollocks that looks like it was thought up in a planning session after 8 pints of beer and penned on the back of a handy beer mat.


 

yes, such as those deep and meaty stories like the ark in space /dc


----------



## Pingu (May 19, 2013)

yeah .. but good ones tbh I was thinking more about stuff like they used to do back when waggon wheels were bigger etc. storylines that span a whole series etc (think back to the john pertwee era for the sort of thing I am on about). yeah having a different story each episode can work it would be nice to have one that was a bit longer


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

Pingu said:


> yeah .. but good ones tbh I was thinking more about stuff like they used to do back when waggon wheels were bigger etc. storylines that span a whole series etc (think back to the john pertwee era for the sort of thing I am on about). yeah having a different story each episode can work it would be nice to have one that was a bit longer


 

Peter davidson era also then- and whoevers era the keys of time and black/white guardian was.


----------



## Pingu (May 19, 2013)

don't get me wrong btw. I am actually quite a big Dr Who fan, but this last set has left me a bit "meh". it just feels lazy


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 19, 2013)

So they say "hes me but hes not the doctor".
Then . .
Big letters 'Introducing John Hurt as the Doctor'
John Hurt looked great, you can tell he is in a different league. Shame that had to cheese it up by adding captions.


----------



## Stigmata (May 19, 2013)

I thought that was a cracker. Creepy monsters for the younglings, John Hurt AND Richard E Grant for the rest of us.

Valeyard for sure


----------



## frogwoman (May 19, 2013)

so dotty has been trying to get me to watch this show recently, after having seen a few episodes i just do not see the attraction


----------



## danny la rouge (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:
			
		

> Ironic that you weren't paying attention enough to remember the line correctly



I don't memorise dialogue I've only heard once. But it was something about it only being him in there.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 19, 2013)

It's a shame that trial of a timelord is sooo woeful, makes it difficult to watch again for boning up on the Valiyard.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> I thought that was a cracker. Creepy monsters for the younglings, John Hurt AND Richard E Grant for the rest of us.
> 
> Valeyard for sure


 

I'm going to enjoy (time) lording it over you and balbi when it turns out to not be the valeyard after all. I am going to savour it.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It's a shame that trial of a timelord is sooo woeful, makes it difficult to watch again for boning up on the Valiyard.


 

nonsense, its the only good thing the crap baker ever did.


----------



## Balbi (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm going to enjoy (time) lording it over you and balbi when it turns out to not be the valeyard after all. I am going to savour it.


 
Oi! I said Valeyard incoming - not Valeyard now. Hurt's probably 8.5 Doctor - Time War Ltd Edition. As he wasn't 'The Doctor' but looks like a regeneration, that makes Matt the 12th Doctor and increases the likelihood of Valeyard turning up in the season after the special this November. 

Have at you sir!


----------



## Stigmata (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm going to enjoy (time) lording it over you and balbi when it turns out to not be the valeyard after all. I am going to savour it.


 
WE WILL BURY YOU

In a fuckoff giant TARDIS


----------



## 8den (May 19, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> well.... you could do less running about...
> 
> i need to rewatch my doctor who VHS collection to remind me what i liked so much about old who
> 
> ...


 
Don't. I tried to watch "The City of Death" on Netflix.

It has not aged well.


----------



## 8den (May 19, 2013)

Cid said:


> Ecclestone was an established and well respected actor before Who... Doubt we'll ever know the details of why it didn't work, but if you can't get a decent performance out of an actor like that, I doubt very much it's entirely down to him.


 
I think as I understand it, Ecclestone resented some of the Russel T Davis cheese lines like "Well you need a doctor".


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Oi! I said Valeyard incoming - not Valeyard now. Hurt's probably 8.5 Doctor - Time War Ltd Edition. As he wasn't 'The Doctor' but looks like a regeneration, that makes Matt the 12th Doctor and increases the likelihood of Valeyard turning up in the season after the special this November.
> 
> Have at you sir!


 
Hurt as the War Doctor?

possibly so. Cracks me up how Hurt loves sci fi and fantasy and turns up in the most utter bilge just cos he can. He provided the voice acting in that woeful Ultramarines film, you know, the one that looked like it was CGI done by ZX spectrum


----------



## Balbi (May 19, 2013)

Yup 'In the name of peace, and sanity' - you're telling me that doesn't sound like a Time War ending Doctor? 

Also that big dragon thing in Merlin.


----------



## belboid (May 19, 2013)

Eccleston was always saying how _he_ ended the Time War. And Smith says he is number 11.  Whoever Hurt is, he isnt an earlier Doctor.

Cracking episode, almost makes up for some of the crap in the earlier ones.


----------



## Balbi (May 19, 2013)

belboid said:


> Eccleston was always saying how _he_ ended the Time War. And Smith says he is number 11. Whoever Hurt is, he isnt an earlier Doctor.
> 
> Cracking episode, almost makes up for some of the crap in the earlier ones.


 
Smith says he's the 11th Doctor - but that Hurt's 'The Doctor' isn't considered by The Doctor to have been The Doctor. Potential for an insert Hurt between 8 & 9. Just because Eccleston was all angsty and moody about it, doesn't mean his Doctor did it - just that he remembered it, like a time lord would. Remember biocrisis Tennant being regenerated during the fight against Davros - didn't hesitate to kill every single Dalek and destroy the fleet, didn't even think about it. Born of war, as Tennant said. 

Odds are McGann got merked during the Time War, Hurt pops up - obliterates everything, and then regnerates to prevent himself from doing any more damage/feeling guilty. Eccleston gets the guilt, Tennant gets cocky, Smith gets reflective and here's Hurt to fill in the gap between 1996 and 2005.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

Recall ecclescakes first encounter (to our eyes) with the dalek? the caged dalek that rich bloke had in his museum of alien stuff? Eccles was terrified and then gleeful, like veering between fear and exultation. that would fit Balbi's speculation- the confusion and sketchiness that follows a regeneration massively amplified by having commited two kinds of genocide (again! wither now, oh vervoids?)

of course if Hurt is the War Doctor they are going to have to some frantic backfilling to explain why his venerable self never put in an appearance when Simms came back for a second pop


----------



## binka (May 19, 2013)

theres not really much point in speculating how john hurt's doctor will fit in based on previous episodes. it's pretty obvious they are just going to crowbar him in wherever they see fit then make up some bollocks explanation that doesn't really make sense


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

Yes thats the MO of Who writing, but we should all speculate wildly regardless or else I might have to do something constructive with my sunday afternoon


----------



## danny la rouge (May 19, 2013)

I've looked up this Kaleyard character. I'm glad I didn't see any of that Doctor (the not proper Baker). It sounds as shit as he looked.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 19, 2013)

It was as shit as he looks now, I'm afraid.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 19, 2013)

Silas Loom said:
			
		

> It was as shit as he looks now, I'm afraid.


----------



## goldenecitrone (May 19, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> It was as shit as he looks now, I'm afraid.


 
Never knew he was related to Roy Chubby Brown.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

To be fair to the Valeyard he did have an excellent black leather skullcap


----------



## Santino (May 19, 2013)

Ha ha, people get old and sometimes put on weight.


----------



## 8den (May 19, 2013)

Santino said:


> Ha ha, people get old and sometimes put on weight.


 
And thats very funny.


----------



## Balbi (May 19, 2013)

Hate to get repetetive, but I bloody hate Colin Baker's Doctor.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

Colins Who was shouty, rude and unjustifiably cunty. And yet, he wore the motley perfectly


----------



## danny la rouge (May 19, 2013)

In my first foray into "classic Who", I've ordered the Three Doctors and the Five Doctors on DVD. Since the  only "classic" Doctors I'm interested in are the first four, I hope this will be a fitting prelude to the 50th anniversary episode.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 19, 2013)

8den said:
			
		

> And thats very funny.



No it fucking isn't. :grr:


----------



## kittyP (May 19, 2013)

So, right, sorry, questions.
Is John Hurt the new Dr? 
Will he and Matt Smith be in it together coz he jumped in to his time stream?  Or is Matt Smith going? 
November the 2somethingth, is that a one off episode or a new series? Is it the special anniversary one? 
Is there going to be another full series?


----------



## belboid (May 19, 2013)

No, except kinda, maybe.
Yes. No.
A.  Yes.
Yes.


----------



## kittyP (May 19, 2013)

And and yes, like others, I thought it was a brilliant episode until the end. 
I am with Spangles that Clara should have dies and would have if it was a novel. It was perfect with her being fractured in time constantly saving the Dr.
In fact she could have been there at the end without coming back to life surely, coz she was there with the Dr to save him that time?

Loving John Hurt  He is amazing but really, really, what the fuck was the titles about? 
Totally halted the suspension of disbelief and ruined the moment.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 19, 2013)

- Is John Hurt the new Dr?
- No.

Will he and Matt Smith be in it together
- Yes.

coz he jumped in to his time stream?
- Probably

Or is Matt Smith going?
- No.

November the 2somethingth, is that a one off episode or a new series?
- Anniversary special.

Is it the special anniversary one?
- Yes.

Is there going to be another full series?
- Eventually.


----------



## Balbi (May 19, 2013)

1. Sort of, but not quite - it's for November's special.

2. Smith is confirmed for the new series. And yeah, him and Hurt in the special.

3. November's a 100 minute episode, 50 years of who. Woooo.

4. New series already confirmed. Might be another split over 2014/15.


----------



## kittyP (May 19, 2013)

belboid said:


> No, except kinda, maybe.
> Yes. No.
> A. Yes.
> Yes.


----------



## kittyP (May 19, 2013)

Thank you everyone  
I only just watched it now on the iplayer.

Oh and again, John Hurt   <3


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 19, 2013)

Again, without knowing any of the canon and accepting that the writers can basically do anything, the obvious interpretation was definitely that he was the 'Doctor' (or not  ) who ended the Time War.

As I say though, that's the _obvious_ interpretation, not necessarily the right one.


----------



## Corax (May 19, 2013)

Santino said:


> I think it will be something to do with time travel.


----------



## Corax (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I liked strax in this 'your reptile nature offends my sontaran purity!'


"Unhand me you ridiculous reptile!"


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

When did silurians stop being immense sea beasts and become something that you might well after a few bongs and a meaningful exchange of views?


----------



## Corax (May 19, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Yup 'In the name of peace, and sanity' - you're telling me that doesn't sound like a Time War ending Doctor?
> 
> Also that big dragon thing in Merlin.


Big dragon thing?  That'd be the dragon then.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 19, 2013)

Kuso said:


> who is he? what'd he do? I'm confused  is he the "doctor" that killed all the time lords and daleks and then the "doctor" took the name after that to atone for it? or wha?


 
Bit annoying when Simeon was bleating about the Doctor's names and said he'd come to be known as The Storm. The Daleks already caledl him The Oncoming Storm in (IIRC) series 2 or 3.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 19, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> One of the names of The Doctor mentioned was The Valeyard. Can't see them going down that route, but I'm intrigued anyway about John Hurt's "Doctor". There's a bit of a theme in this episode of multiple identities, and being split into parts, so I guess it'll be down that route for the 50th anniversary episode.
> 
> Anyway, good episode.
> 
> Also, Strax in Glasgow = lol


 
Wasn't it Simeon who mentioned that one of the names The Doctor is/will be known by is The Valeyard?


----------



## Balbi (May 19, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Wasn't it Simeon who mentioned that one of the names The Doctor is/will be known by is The Valeyard?


 
He is the Great Intelligence, pure information - and from the G.I point of view, he met Smith first at christmas - then Troughton - and then the events of the second half of the series. He'll have sorted his knowledge out, including Baker's trial of a timelord.


----------



## Corax (May 19, 2013)

I think Hurt is the *real *11th Doctor, and it'll turn out that Matt Smith's character is a mobile phone salesman called Phil who just nicked the Tardis when Hurt popped in to upgrade his tariff.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 19, 2013)

Epona said:


> That, exactly. We're not here to discuss his career as an actor, we're talking about The Doctor, and whether McGann would have made a good one given more time in the role (regardless of what acting he has done since) is certainly a topic for discussion and speculation.


 
McGann's Doctor in the radio series is certainly good. Arrogant and cocky, but humane too.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

jon hurt, legend though he may well be, cannot do the london accent of his age group. If you see him in 44 inch Chest he's great, an irascible old cokney don walking with a cane but he can't maintain that grub-gutter accent. Slips up. You forgive him cos he isJon Hurt, but compared to say- ben kingsley doing a cockerny vibe, Hurt does not have the same facility with accent


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> If john hurt is the doctor then surely it will be the same as if someone had divided by zero. Its to much. Hurt would rank as on who could steal the crown from Tom fucking Baker as the real Who. It'll turnout that he is the master or something. It would be too off the scale of win for Hurt to take the mantle full time. I haven't been a good lad.


 
Perhaps Hurt isn't a regeneration? Perhaps he's merely an aged version of McGann's Doctor?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Red herring. If jon hurt turns out to be the valeyard I will eat a homburg garnished with hp


 
I'd pay to watch that.


----------



## Balbi (May 19, 2013)

Given how McGann's ageing process is already suspect - that could be right. 37 when he played the Doctor, 53 now. Doesn't look it.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Perhaps Hurt isn't a regeneration? Perhaps he's merely an aged version of McGann's Doctor?


 

urgh you recall mganns Master right? The Master is ever suited to the doc and mganns effete nothing wasteman was amply served by a flashy, oily Master

less said about that the better.The only good bit is where silvester mcoy gets killed and that annoyed me regardless cos he was MY doctor


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

wheras simms was as sketch as his opponent. Delgado was as gentlemanly as his pertwee nemesis.


Fuck noes what happened with keeper of traken though


----------



## spanglechick (May 19, 2013)

sketch?


----------



## Balbi (May 19, 2013)

He is using the slang innit.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> sketch?


 

little bit woo little bit wheeey


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> urgh you recall mganns Master right? The Master is ever suited to the doc and mganns effete nothing wasteman was amply served by a flashy, oily Master
> 
> less said about that the better.The only good bit is where silvester mcoy gets killed and that annoyed me regardless cos he was MY doctor


 
Eric "cokehead" Roberts, wasn't it, in the tv movie?
Have to say that as Troughton and Pertwee were MY first Doctors, seeing Samuel fucking Tweet get stiffed was almost sheer unalloyed joy.


----------



## 8den (May 19, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Eric "cokehead" Roberts, wasn't it, in the tv movie?
> Have to say that as Troughton and Pertwee were MY first Doctors, seeing Samuel fucking Tweet get stiffed was almost sheer unalloyed joy.


 
Yup. Everything about that movie sucked balls, aside from the art direction of the Tardis.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

one worthwhile scene: dude rides a motorbike into the Tardis, then drives back out again


----------



## 8den (May 19, 2013)

No. Because it reminds me of the fact that Paul Mc Gann's doctor pisses about on a motorbike.

The doctor should never drive a motorbike, a anti grav scooter or any of the shite Moffat has him pissing about on this season.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 19, 2013)

8den said:
			
		

> No. Because it reminds me of the fact that Paul Mc Gann's doctor pisses about on a motorbike.
> 
> The doctor should never drive a motorbike, a anti grav scooter or any of the shite Moffat has him pissing about on this season.



Doesn't bother me. 

I don't like him kissing people, though. He's the Doctor, not Captain Kirk.


----------



## 8den (May 19, 2013)

No kissing, no motorbikes.


----------



## agricola (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> wheras simms was as sketch as his opponent. Delgado was as gentlemanly as his pertwee nemesis.
> 
> 
> Fuck noes what happened with keeper of traken though


 
Simm's Master was just crap, a terrible combination of bad, pointless shoutiness and a lot of awful writing (the whole "Master Race" concept being the lowest of the many low points). Jacobi was much better than him, and his turn at the role lasted all of two minutes.  In fact, even Tennant was scarier than him.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

I disagree, for many reasons which I am too lazy to outline. Simms was good before he went bleached and got insane powers


----------



## dessiato (May 19, 2013)

Just watched the latest episode. Loved it. Possibly the best of the season.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I disagree, for many reasons which I am too lazy to outline. Simms was good before he went bleached and got insane powers


i must say the  bit where everyone became him was so terrible  it passed through badness and sort of became awesome for a few seconds...     well  it was the highlight of that story anyhow  which was fucking terrible


----------



## Corax (May 19, 2013)

Thread title's still incorrect btw.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

dessiato said:


> Just watched the latest episode. Loved it. Possibly the best of the season.


 

yeah, unless someone can remind me of anything good that motion is carried. Been trying to get frog into it, and its been a shit run so far.


----------



## dessiato (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah, unless someone can remind me of anything good that motion is carried. Been trying to get frog into it, and its been a shit run so far.


Pity it's the last one! If this standard had been throughout the series it might have had a more positive impact.


----------



## snadge (May 19, 2013)

Doctor fans unite, for the 50th anniversary we need the original Delia Derbyshire theme tune in it's entirety, how do we do this?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

snadge said:


> Doctor fans unite, for the 50th anniversary we need the original Delia Derbyshire theme tune in it's entirety, how do we do this?


 

facebook campaign. Thats what has basically replaced democracy.


----------



## stuff_it (May 19, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Doesn't bother me.
> 
> I don't like him kissing people, though. He's the Doctor, not Captain Kirk.


He's kept his shirt on so far.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 19, 2013)

snadge said:


> Doctor fans unite, for the 50th anniversary we need the original Delia Derbyshire theme tune in it's entirety, how do we do this?


 
That's a damn fine idea. Murray Gold who does the music is on twitter (@murraygold) but he seems to have abruptly stopped posting last August.


----------



## snadge (May 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> facebook campaign. Thats what has basically replaced democracy.


 
Isn't popular demand actual democracy, don't try and bring tired politics into a serious request please.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 19, 2013)

Doctor Who is intensely political. He's the universes vilest liberal.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 20, 2013)

8den said:


> Don't. I tried to watch "The City of Death" on Netflix.
> 
> It has not aged well.


Whatttt! It's still brilliant.
I still love watching it because that one affected me so much as a kid.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 20, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> He's kept his shirt on so far.


  I hope Moffatt doesn't read this thread!  Quick, go back and edit!!!


----------



## Kaka Tim (May 20, 2013)

Pretty good. 'cept she definitely should have died at the end - that would have made it into a great story - but they always shy away from that in dr who. Bit like in AI, where it should have ended with robo-boy staring at the fairy in the ice for eternity, but they had to bolt a shit feelgood ending on to it.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 20, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> Pretty good. 'cept she definitely should have died at the end - that would have made it into a great story - but they always shy away from that in dr who. Bit like in AI, where it should have ended with robo-boy staring at the fairy in the ice for eternity, but they had to end a shit feelgood ending on to it.


 
Indeed. I always hate the sad ending as I am watching but apprecicate it later. Even the Adric death in Dr Who was memorable and powerful.
. . . and children of men should have ended 30 seconds earlyer.


----------



## kabbes (May 20, 2013)

Ridiculous to not have Clara die at the most narratively satisfying point, and irritating to have a six month cliffhanger.  Other than that, I enjoyed it.

And Simms was a brilliant Master, you bastards.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 20, 2013)

kabbes said:
			
		

> And Simms was a brilliant Master, you bastards.


Don't worry, some of these losers think Baker II and Sylvester were proper Doctors.


----------



## Helen Back (May 20, 2013)

Roger Delgado. Everyone else, especially Ainley but not Jacobi, was a pantomime villain.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 20, 2013)

Delgado was a massive massive ham


----------



## kabbes (May 20, 2013)

There's nothing wrong with a pantomime villain.  Who is a pantomime hero.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 20, 2013)

which would make moll flanders widow twanky


----------



## danny la rouge (May 20, 2013)

DotCommunist said:
			
		

> which would make moll flanders widow twanky



Oh no it wouldn't!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 20, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Don't worry, some of these losers think Baker II and Sylvester were proper Doctors.


 
Mr. Shouty and Samuel Tweet were fucking abberations, possibly brought about by some Beeb-wallah who had shat himself to an early Doctor Who episode, and wanted revenge for the humiliation.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 20, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> which would make moll flanders widow twanky


 
Moll Flanders wanking in a window?


----------



## ginger_syn (May 20, 2013)

loved the episode. Loved this series,In my opinion it has to be the best one since it came back, and Smith is definitely the best nu-who doctor so far.


----------



## ginger_syn (May 20, 2013)

Also re Hurts Doctor, it's hardly a secret that the Doctor ended the time war, so maybe the secret is he started it.


----------



## joustmaster (May 20, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> Also re Hurts Doctor, it's hardly a secret that the Doctor ended the time war, so maybe the secret is he started it.


I think thats already the case..
Wasn't he meant to have been on a lone mission to fuck up the daleks at the beginning of the war


----------



## CNT36 (May 20, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> Also re Hurts Doctor, it's hardly a secret that the Doctor ended the time war, so maybe the secret is he started it.


Tom Baker started it in The Genesis of the Daleks on a mission from the Time Lords.


----------



## Balbi (May 20, 2013)

There's only a handful of Classic Who eps on Netflix. Genesis of the Daleks remains though


----------



## Stigmata (May 20, 2013)

snadge said:


> Doctor fans unite, for the 50th anniversary we need the original Delia Derbyshire theme tune in it's entirety, how do we do this?


 
Dick Mills, who invented the cloister bell sound effect, is still alive. He should be in it as a Time Lord or something.


----------



## Gromit (May 20, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> Also re Hurts Doctor, it's hardly a secret that the Doctor ended the time war, so maybe the secret is he started it.



I don't think Hurt is the Doctor. Briefly maybe. Before he becomes The Master. 

Tired of saving the universe endlessly and nothing ever changes he decides the iron fist of the dictator is the only way to lastingly save it.


----------



## Vintage Paw (May 20, 2013)

stuff_it said:


> He's kept his shirt on so far.


 
He was completely naked in his first episode, when he went to get changed into his 11th doctor clothes. Amy got an eye-full... and so the thinly veiled sexually charged bullshit began.


----------



## fogbat (May 20, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> He was completely naked in his first episode, when he went to get changed into his 11th doctor clothes. Amy got an eye-full... and so the thinly veiled sexually charged bullshit began.


He also flashed his cock briefly on primetime BBC1 in the first Corden episode.

<insert Corden / massive cock joke here >


----------



## DotCommunist (May 20, 2013)

I don't remember and whogenitals


----------



## Santino (May 20, 2013)

It's bigger on the inside.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 20, 2013)

Santino said:


> It's bigger on the inside.


 

its not, I've seen him in the school changing rooms


----------



## Wilf (May 20, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> its not, I've seen him in the school changing rooms


But he does have one on each side.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 20, 2013)

Balbi said:


> There's only a handful of Classic Who eps on Netflix. Genesis of the Daleks remains though


 I actually have full on love for the not much loved destiny.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 20, 2013)

Gromit said:


> I don't think Hurt is the Doctor. Briefly maybe. Before he becomes The Master.
> 
> Tired of saving the universe endlessly and nothing ever changes he decides the iron fist of the dictator is the only way to lastingly save it.


 
Nah, I'm pretty sure they said at some point that they went to space school together. Or one looked into the stream as a kid and one didn't or something. Anyway, different time lines.


----------



## meurig (May 21, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Nah, I'm pretty sure they said at some point that they went to space school together. Or one looked into the stream as a kid and one didn't or something. Anyway, different time lines.


 
They did, and they both looked into the vortex and it drove the Master mad. It was in the Simms master first episode, and then reprised in the Time Lords story.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 21, 2013)

i think it always was that they went to the acadamy together   rani too i think


----------



## Epona (May 21, 2013)

8den said:


> No. Because it reminds me of the fact that Paul Mc Gann's doctor pisses about on a motorbike.
> 
> The doctor should never drive a motorbike, a anti grav scooter or any of the shite Moffat has him pissing about on this season.


 
It's all a bit reminiscent of Pertwee - stuck on Earth for stories on end, and with a variety of other (often ridiculous) vehicles.  Now I liked Pertwee as The Doctor, but the direction the series took during his era was a bit too 007 for my liking.


----------



## joustmaster (May 21, 2013)

so in that last episode.. the dr said that he could always see/hear river. But when she said his name to open the tardis/tomb, the Dr looked confused..

It makes it feel like they make it up as they go along.


----------



## ginger_syn (May 21, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> Tom Baker started it in The Genesis of the Daleks on a mission from the Time Lords.


I've always thought that the last great time war kicked off some time during the 8th regeneration.An idea partly influenced by the short series of 8th Doctor radio plays that were on R4 a while back.I see Genesis as being more of a skirmish in a bog standard war, with the events of Remembrance really starting to nark the daleks off and full on war starting at some point during 8th's time.

 this is my view only and is not to be taken as a statement of facts


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 21, 2013)

genisis  was   a time war  because  it  was  the time lords attempting to stop the daleks before they start

the doctor  ended up  deciding  not to  kill the daleks  but delay their development  so people could be better prepared

there certainly was a lot of mixing up of dalek stuff with the 8th doctor  but  i think a lot of that is down to the fact  of licensing

the new/misssing adventure stories  didn't have the licence to use the daleks  so when the licences got switched around  i think people went a bit dalek crazy


----------



## Santino (May 21, 2013)

Once the Time War started all wars were the Time War.


----------



## Pingu (May 21, 2013)

the first rule of time war club...


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 21, 2013)

...is pack a flask. We're not stopping once we're on the way.


----------



## Epona (May 21, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> genisis was a time war because it was the time lords attempting to stop the daleks before they start
> 
> the doctor ended up deciding not to kill the daleks but delay their development so people could be better prepared
> 
> ...


 
I actually love the fact that the Tom Baker "Do I have the right?" line from Genesis (one of the best Tom Baker moments ever) was briefly heard in the latest episode.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 21, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Hate to get repetetive, but I bloody hate Colin Baker's Doctor.


He was pretty rubbish, though _Revelation of the Daleks_ is good.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 21, 2013)

Colin Baker never really got a decent stab at it. The stories were shit, the budgets were down,  he was written to be oddly aggresive and he often had confusing direction and motivation (like in trial of a timelord where even the writers didn7t know if the doctor was faking, a bit evil or we were watching something that didn't even happen) WTF.
. . also they dressed him up like a tool. These were the main things that were wrong with him and they were none of Colin Bakers fault. Maybe he was shit, but it's hard to tell hidden away in all the other shit.


----------



## CNT36 (May 21, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Colin Baker never really got a decent stab at it. The stories were shit, the budgets were down, he was written to be oddly aggresive and he often had confusing direction and motivation (like in trial of a timelord where even the writers didn7t know if the doctor was faking, a bit evil or we were watching something that didn't even happen) WTF.
> . . also they dressed him up like a tool. These were the main things that were wrong with him and they were none of Colin Bakers fault. Maybe he was shit, but it's hard to tell hidden away in all the other shit.


He's less annoying in the audio books. There was a story with commie Daleks that was pretty good.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2013)

I quite liked his motley coat. hid gean wilder whitefro and barking delivery style- not so much


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 21, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I quite liked his motley coat. hid gean wilder whitefro and barking delivery style- not so much


 
Mate, Gene Wilder had a Jewfro, Shouty Baker had a corkscrewed mess. He made Marc Bolan look tidy for fuck's sake!


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 21, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> so in that last episode.. the dr said that he could always see/hear river. But when she said his name to open the tardis/tomb, the Dr looked confused..
> 
> It makes it feel like they make it up as they go along.


Why _did_ she say his name? I mean she must have known it wouldn't end well. It's bugging me. Why, why, why? Other than that best episode this season, which has been shit tbh.

Clara should still go though.


----------



## captainmission (May 21, 2013)

Now she's been 'solved' hopefully they can develop her as a character rather than a plot device. she'll still be a shit actor though.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Mate, Gene Wilder had a Jewfro,* Shouty Baker had a corkscrewed mess*. He made Marc Bolan look tidy for fuck's sake!


 

He had that messy bunch of curls one of my brothers catamites has, its a bad bad haircut. Look at phil spector


----------



## belboid (May 21, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> so in that last episode.. the dr said that he could always see/hear river. But when she said his name to open the tardis/tomb, the Dr looked confused..
> 
> It makes it feel like they make it up as they go along.


If you were standing there thinking 'no, i cant do that, even tho my friends will die, because the consequences of doing that would be even worse' - and then your wife, the love of your very very very long life, your eternal soulmate, turned up and did exactly what you knew, and she knew, and you knew she knew, was a really really bad idea...if all that, I think it'd be fair enough to be a bit confused.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 21, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I quite liked his motley coat. hid gean wilder whitefro *and barking delivery style*- not so much


That's another thing that its hard to blame baker 2 for though, because he was directed to 'bark' and be a shit because he had regenerated 'wrong'. This was an interesting idea that was implimented really badly. Mixed with all the other bad writing and shit visuals it just made for an unlikabke doctor.


----------



## ginger_syn (May 22, 2013)

I liked Colin Baker doctor, his cold arrogance was a refreshing change after the slightly soppy air of Davison's Doctor, for me it gave the Doctor an alien edge that had been missing , I will admit there were some dodgy stories but Baker did his best and will always be one of. my favourite Doctors.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 25, 2013)

danny la rouge said:
			
		

> In my first foray into "classic Who", I've ordered the Three Doctors and the Five Doctors on DVD. Since the only "classic" Doctors I'm interested in are the first four, I hope this will be a fitting prelude to the 50th anniversary episode.


Watched them now.

My Doctors were Pertwee and (proper) Baker. And this was the first time I've watched classic Who episodes since they aired. It was a fun nostalgic romp. But I have to say New Who is 100 times better in almost every respect.

I think it's better that the Time Lords are all dead. Also, I'd not seen Davidson in the role, and I didn't like him. He was too insipid, wet and boyish. Not at all convincing as an ancient itinerant renegade alien.

But Pertwee and Troughton were great.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 25, 2013)

davidson wasn't the best doc but he got some good stories


----------



## Stigmata (May 25, 2013)

Smith tries to channel Troughton a bit I think. Which is good.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 26, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> davidson wasn't the best doc but he got some good stories


 There is one DVD where you can watch the episodes uncut studio takes without music etc. The story is ballbags but I think it was the first one they filmed (out of order so as to get a better performace for the first episode when everyone was up to speed). You can see that Davidson is a decent actor head and sholders above all the teegans, adrics, and nissas. Not that it wasn't obvious that they sucked. Even as a kid I found Adric painful.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 26, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> There is one DVD where you can watch the episodes uncut studio takes without music etc. The story is ballbags but I think it was the first one they filmed (out of order so as to get a better performace for the first episode when everyone was up to speed). You can see that Davidson is a decent actor head and sholders above all the teegans, adrics, and nissas. Not that it wasn't obvious that they sucked. Even as a kid I found Adric painful.


 
yeah but you hate everything except the most random things so I just can't trust your judgement. You call ballbags on stuff I really like. Fuck you call ballbags on things I don't care much abouit but acknowledge as good effort. Hence your judgement is highly suspect. Thats the way it is AS.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 26, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah but you hate everything except the most random things so I just can't trust your judgement. You call ballbags on stuff I really like. Fuck you call ballbags on things I don't care much abouit but acknowledge as good effort. Hence your judgement is highly suspect. Thats the way it is AS.


Are you saying you like Adric or that you don't like Davison?


----------



## Chz (May 26, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> He's less annoying in the audio books. There was a story with commie Daleks that was pretty good.


 
I've only heard two of them, but they're certainly better than anything he did on television. Got the impression he very much took to calling the shots when recording the audio books. I like the new companion they gave him, as well. A 50-something historian to balance out his extreme egoism.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 26, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> *Are you saying you like Adric* or that you don't like Davison?


 
a given, surely

no I was just commenting on how you dislike vast swathes of perfectly good stuff and this renders your judgement unsound in the eyes of me


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 26, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> a given, surely
> 
> no I was just commenting on how you dislike vast swathes of perfectly good stuff and this renders your judgement unsound in the eyes of me


 
No, I am just a better filter. If I say its ok, it's a good sign. You can breathe under 20ft of water but I have to sit on the moutain top.


----------



## kabbes (May 26, 2013)

Not much air on a mountain top.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 26, 2013)

kabbes said:


> Not much air on a mountain top.


But I am safe from he rising waters of shit.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 26, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> No, I am just a better filter. If I say its ok, it's a good sign. You can breathe under 20ft of water but I have to sit on the moutain top.


 

FREE TIBET


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 26, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> FREE TIBET


If it's free I will take two.


----------



## spikey_r (Jun 1, 2013)

*beaten to it*


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 2, 2013)

Matt's leaving at Christmas.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/Matt-Smith-to-leave-Doctor-Who

By the sounds of it Moff is staying though, to ruin another series. Goody.

So, I believe that heralds 6 months of 'place yer bets' style speculation wrt the new doctor.

I would ordinarily say 'time for a woman' but frankly I don't trust that cunt to write one well.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 2, 2013)

I'm saddened by the news of Matt Smith's departure, he is my favourite nu- who Doctor, but I am also ok with it as long as I don't dislike the next one once he turns up.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 2, 2013)

People say Dr Who ain't as good as it used to be.

Moff blames think time for a new Doctor. Me think he is the problem not Matt.

Still I wouldn't mind a new Doctor. Let the arguments over whether it could be a woman begin anew 

My vote is no.


----------



## 8den (Jun 2, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Matt's leaving at Christmas.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/doctorwho/articles/Matt-Smith-to-leave-Doctor-Who
> 
> ...


 
The way they are going it's likely to be a foetus with a sonic screwdriver by the 13th regeneration.


----------



## gnoriac (Jun 2, 2013)

Too many actors (and especially the last 2) have treated it as something close to a comedy role, I'd like to see one who brought a little more gravitas to it.

No, damn it, a lot more.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2013)

Tennant in no way treated it as a comedy role.


----------



## Chz (Jun 2, 2013)

Yes, but he made it one. I'm sorry, his serious face just makes me laugh. At least in Who it did, I think he's rather good in most of the other things I've seen him in. Not all his fault, more a combination of his faux-gravitas with the ludicrously OTT stories they gave him.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2013)

boo, he was only there five minutes


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 2, 2013)

As long as they get rid of Coleman as well I'm happy.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 2, 2013)

Vintage Paw said:


> Matt's leaving at Christmas.


 
Good.



> By the sounds of it Moff is staying though, to ruin another series. Goody.


 
Not good.



> So, I believe that heralds 6 months of 'place yer bets' style speculation wrt the new doctor.


 
Excellent!


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 2, 2013)

it's a poisoned chalice for an actor, though, i'd have thought - since anyone appointed by moffat will only last as long as moffat decides to stay, no?  a new showrunner will want their own Doctor.


----------



## 8den (Jun 2, 2013)

It was it hasn't hurt Tennant's career.

I think it was career suicide back pre reboot. Not any more.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 2, 2013)

8den said:


> It was it hasn't hurt Tennant's career.
> 
> I think it was career suicide back pre reboot. Not any more.


i don't mean the role specifically... i mean with rumours that moff will be off in a year or so, any new doctor has got to be wondering how long they'd actually get in the role before a new showrunner took over.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 2, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> boo, he was only there five minutes


 
You're just upset that you'll no longer be able to bore people with the stories of how he was once your fag.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2013)

Gromit said:


> People say Dr Who ain't as good as it used to be.


It's a million times better than the "classic" series. In every way. Even the least good New Who episode is better than Classic Who, so let's get this in perspective. 

My favourite New Who Doc was Tennant. But Smith has been great. I like the way he carries the role. 

This current series was better than the previous, and has had some really good episodes. It did have one stinker: the one where they had to sing a Snow Patrol song to an exploding planet. 

The current companion is poor, but not disastrous. She's not as bad as Martha was. 

What they should do is: drop the series-long sub plot, unless they can make it something good; stop having the companion being vital to the universe (it's been done, it was interesting once - with Rose - and now it's old). Let's just have a companion who is fun to travel with; and put the sonic screwdriver away for a bit - how about flicking a switch to turn off the anti gravity shield, for example? Also can the Doctor not be compared with Jesus for a bit? Some of us find that a bit off putting. How about the inter galactic rebel? More bumbling, accidental Che Guevara than tortured Messiah.


And no kissing.


----------



## 8den (Jun 2, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> i don't mean the role specifically... i mean with rumours that moff will be off in a year or so, any new doctor has got to be wondering how long they'd actually get in the role before a new showrunner took over.


 
Yeah but no.

They must have a idea of who will take over after Moffat, and if they are admitting Moffat is moving soon, then the actor must be able to bridge the gap. They're not going to do a Colin Baker.

And please don't let it be too long before Moffat leaves. I cant bear another few seasons of him. Though the only thing he did was Rory.


----------



## 8den (Jun 2, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> It's a million times better than the "classic" series. In every way. Even the least good New Who episode is better than Classic Who, so let's get this in perspective.
> 
> My favourite New Who Doc was Tennant. But Smith has been great. I like the way he carries the role.
> 
> ...


 
My problem with Davis was he just found the worst Weedon esque plot holes and thought they were a good idea. (Jos Weedon's Buffy was famous for it's "oh here's a magic thing to fix the plot" series ending, similar to RTD's "lets turn the doctor into Dobby, and then have Martha chant him into godlike powers").

My problem with Riversong was she was overused like a catchphrase, silence in library was amazing, and then she kept bloody popping up every fucking week.  They should have made River some kind of timelord that way she could turn up with different actresses playing her, once a twice a year. I liked Amy and Rory but to be honest I felt I was being "told" that I should like Amy n Rory, rather than being shown what a great couple they were. Give a couple of episodes like the new new york traffic jam one, let me explore the characters without getting stressed about the big plot arc, the show needs it.

I don't mind big series long arcs I mind how badly they've been pulled off. Look at Battle Star, Buffy, even Babylon 5, these are shows that can milk a series arc for 23 episodes, and yet when Moffats Who does it for six I worry that the cow is suffering from dehydration.

To be honest, it needs a breather a break, and these splitting a series over two years isn't helping. It needs a team of writers to sit down and come up with something new.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2013)

8den said:


> the worst Weedon esque plot holes


Bert?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2013)

8den said:


> I liked Amy and Rory but to be honest I felt I was being "told" that I should like Amy n Rory, rather than being shown what a great couple they were.


I agree: there's a lot of tell not show in Moffat.


----------



## 8den (Jun 2, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Bert?


 
Josh Weedon friggin loved Deus Ex Machina. And it was the great flaw in Buffy, after a series of massive tension and build up either someone cast a spell (Willow V Adam) or found a amulet (Buffy V the 1st) or a Magic Sword or something, and that fixed the plot. It actually got worse over time. In Season 2 7 5they knew how to end things just refused to bow to horrible conclusion.

Davis' Who had similar problems form the get go but even worse. Oh look lets make Rose the all seeing all knowing tardis that can destroy the entire Dalek fleet. Or have Martha cure the world by talking about the doctor based on a singe whisper, or Donna is a entier Deus Ex Machina. Davis' Who just got lazy, make the Doctor face impossible odds and then whoops have a plot contrivance save them.

To be honest Moffat is even worse. Theres simply no rhyme or reason to his plots, whatever the doctor needs to have/do to fix the plot he can do, because the Doctor is, according to Moffat, Merlin.

Just personally my favourite old who is genesis of the Daleks, and not just the episode but the very specific cliff hanger with Tom Baker holding two bits of exposed wire arguing with himself whether he has the right to slaughter the daleks before they are born. I just don't see Moffat's doctor having that kind of conversation.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 2, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> accidental Che Guevara than tortured Messiah.



He's not the messaih, he's a very naughty boy.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 2, 2013)

Moffat had siome good charactor bits  but  a lot of his overall plot is weak.  

none of new who can do slow paced stuff.

we need some slow paced who.   some triple parters or summin


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2013)

8den said:


> Josh Weedon friggin loved Deus Ex Machina. And it was the great flaw in Buffy


Never heard of him.  Did he write Buffy?  I didn't watch that.



Spoiler: any relation?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2013)

8den said:


> Josh Weedon


I know it shouldn't matter, but it's Joss Whedon.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 2, 2013)

8den said:


> Josh Weedon friggin loved Deus Ex Machina. And it was the great flaw in Buffy, after a series of massive tension and build up either someone cast a spell (Willow V Adam) or found a amulet (Buffy V the 1st) or a Magic Sword or something, and that fixed the plot. It actually got worse over time. In Season 2 7 5they knew how to end things just refused to bow to horrible conclusion.


 
Deus Ex Machina is all but ubiquitous in escapist fiction generally, and sci fi in particular. It can still be done with some degree of wit and style though, or more importantly with some kind of relevance to the theme of the story. The ending of Buffy season 7 (which was kinda rushed as IIRC Whedon had only one episode left to do it in rather than the two he was expecting) did this really well I thought.

Then you've got horrid Deus Ex Machina endings where something totally unrelated to the plot, the characters or the known laws of casuality just magically sets everything straight. Doctor Who has more than a few of these, the episode with all the little black cubes being a particularly rank specimen. Even so, I'm happy to ignore a daft ending if the characters and the dialogue and all that stuff that comes before it are worth watching. Buffy is not really about vampires after all, the vampires are just an excuse to tell stories about humans.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 2, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> I know it shouldn't matter, but it's Joss Whedon.



Actually i think he meant Will Wheaton


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2013)

8den said:


> the Doctor is, according to Moffat, Merlin.


Which might mean he casts Colin Morgan...


----------



## kabbes (Jun 2, 2013)

I'm not sure Doctor Who even deserves to be in the same thread as Buffy.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2013)

kabbes said:


> I'm not sure Doctor Who even deserves to be in the same thread as Buffy.


 

quite right, one is the longest science fiction program ever which continues to delight and amaze wheras buffy was what anthony head did between coffee ads


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 2, 2013)

And _School Reunion_, which I rather liked.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> quite right, one is the longest science fiction program ever which continues to delight and amaze wheras buffy was what anthony head did between coffee ads


He was the magician in the first series of Jonothan's Creek.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> He was the magician in the first series of Jonothan's Creek.


 
I stand in awe of his illustrious Head


----------



## 8den (Jun 2, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> I know it shouldn't matter, but it's Joss Whedon.


 
I will kill you.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 2, 2013)

8den said:


> I will kill you.


But at least I'll go to the grave correct.


----------



## 8den (Jun 2, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> quite right, one is the longest science fiction program ever which continues to delight and amaze wheras buffy was what anthony head did between coffee ads


 
Bollocks. Hush, The Zeppo, The Body, The Gift, and Once more with feeling are all episodes that will pass the Necafe Gold Blend challenge with any Who episode.

Frankly Moffat and RTD could only wish they could maintain the quality of Buffy and Angel over 200 plus episodes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2013)

8den said:


> Bollocks. Hush, The Zeppo, The Body, The Gift, and Once more with feeling are all episodes that will pass the Necafe Gold Blend challenge with any Who episode.
> 
> Frankly Moffat and RTD could only wish they could maintain the quality of Buffy and Angel over 200 plus episodes.


 

luckily they maintained it for far longer, with far less budget and no CGI or skimply dressed teenage girls


----------



## 8den (Jun 3, 2013)

What Buffy or Doctor Who?

There's bugger all skimpy dressed teenage girls in Buffy, Doctor Who on the other hand;










Or to go back a bit






No CGI in Doctor Who? There's more CGI in the average Moffat/RTD who than in the average episode of buffy






And I'm fairly certain the cost of a episode of Buffy is in the neighbourhood of a episode of Doctor Who. (average cost per episode of Buffy was $2.5 Million while the cost of a series of Who is £10m (excluding christmas specials).


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2013)

Oh I must have just imagined buffy's sister running round a lot in a skimpy top


----------



## 8den (Jun 3, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Oh I must have just imagined buffy's sister running round a lot in a skimpy top


 
.


----------



## ginger_syn (Jun 3, 2013)

8den said:


> Bollocks. Hush, The Zeppo, The Body, The Gift, and Once more with feeling are all episodes that will pass the Necafe Gold Blend challenge with any Who episode.
> 
> Frankly Moffat and RTD could only wish they could maintain the quality of Buffy and Angel over 200 plus episodes.


you are tripping mate. While Buffy and to a much lesser extent Angel were good fantasy programming, they were just a cutesy reboot of the romantic vampire twist made popular by Anne Rice. Besides I loved Dr Who first


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2013)

The quality of writing in Buffy was unsurpassed by virtually anything on telly, let alone Doctor Who.


----------



## Santino (Jun 3, 2013)

8den said:


> Theres simply no rhyme or reason to his plots, whatever the doctor needs to have/do to fix the plot he can do, because the Doctor is, according to Moffat, Merlin.


The Doctor _is_ Merlin though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

kabbes said:


> The quality of writing in Buffy was unsurpassed by virtually anything on telly, let alone Doctor Who.


That's quite a claim.  I'm sorry I missed it; I thought it was for pre-pubescent girls.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> That's quite a claim. I'm sorry I missed it; I thought it was for pre-pubescent girls.


There's a reason Joss Whedon became one of the hottest pieces of Hollywood property.

I rewatched the whole lot last year and it was even better than I remembered.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

kabbes said:


> There's a reason Joss Whedon became one of the hottest pieces of Hollywood property.


He did?  I'm sure you're right, but I'd never heard of him until this thread last night.  I'm not dissing Buffy - I can't, I never watched it.


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> He did? I'm sure you're right, but I'd never heard of him until this thread last night. I'm not dissing Buffy - I can't, I never watched it.


You didn't hear of last year's Avengers movie that he wrote and directed?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

kabbes said:


> You didn't hear of last year's Avengers movie that he wrote and directed?


No. Was it a remake of the TV series?


----------



## kabbes (Jun 3, 2013)

Bad Danny.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

Turns out it wasn't: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Avengers_(2012_film)

No, I wasn't aware of that film.  It isn't the sort of thing that would interest me anyway.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

kabbes said:


> Bad Danny.


Oy.  I'd have liked _that_.  If it had been done well.


----------



## Pingu (Jun 3, 2013)

kabbes said:


> The quality of writing in Buffy was unsurpassed by virtually anything on telly, let alone Doctor Who.


 
and the musical episode was awesome. maybe Dr Who should do a rock opera episode or something... they could hold a competition over the summer to cast the lead vocalist - Andrew Lloyd webber could host it and Amanda whatserface could be the presenter


eta.. if this appears on telly over the summer I want royalties


----------



## Pingu (Jun 3, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> He did? I'm sure you're right, but I'd never heard of him until this thread last night. I'm not dissing Buffy - I can't, I never watched it.


 
firefly was  good too


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

Pingu said:


> and the musical episode was awesome. maybe Dr Who should do a rock opera episode or something... they could hold a competition over the summer to cast the lead vocalist - Andrew Lloyd webber could host it and Amanda whatserface could be the presenter
> 
> 
> eta.. if this appears on telly over the summer I want royalties


I have two words:

Cop Rock.


----------



## Pingu (Jun 3, 2013)

or maybe a 12 programme series "WHO will be the doctor?" they could wheel out hopefuls who would have to re-enact classic Dr Who Scenes at 7 pm every Saturday evening


again royalties clause applies


----------



## scifisam (Jun 3, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Oh I must have just imagined buffy's sister running round a lot in a skimpy top



I think you did. Dawn was always very modestly dressed. Unless you're thinking of Faith, who wasn't Buffy's sister and never showed any flesh but was very sexy. For a show with a teenage girl (and an ex-cheerleader teenage girl at that) as its protagonist buffy was surprisingly chaste in its costuming.


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 3, 2013)

Gromit said:


> Actually i think he meant Will Wheaton


 
It's actually _Wil_ Wheaton. For some reason.


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## kabbes (Jun 3, 2013)

If Whedon wrote Who it would be the best television show in history.


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 3, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Oh I must have just imagined buffy's sister running round a lot in a skimpy top


 
I distinctly remember that as well...

(Disclaimer: Michelle Trachtenberg is the same age as me)


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 3, 2013)

kabbes said:


> If Whedon wrote Who it would be the best television show in history.


 
Yes I think it probably would.


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## Santino (Jun 3, 2013)

The Avengers was rubbish.


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## Pingu (Jun 3, 2013)

scifisam said:


> I think you did. Dawn was always very modestly dressed. Unless you're thinking of Faith, who wasn't Buffy's sister and never showed any flesh but was very sexy. For a show with a teenage girl (and an ex-cheerleader teenage girl at that) as its protagonist buffy was surprisingly chaste in its costuming.


 

two words...

bad willow


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## Chz (Jun 3, 2013)

Pingu said:


> two words...
> 
> bad willow


 
*unf*
Though traditionally given her full title of Evil Lesbian Vampire Willow.



> It's actually _Wil_ Wheaton. For some reason.


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## scifisam (Jun 3, 2013)

Pingu said:


> two words...
> 
> bad willow



Point. Though she was evil, and only in two episodes. And I hold the heretical view that she was really unsexy.


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## 8den (Jun 3, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> you are tripping mate. While Buffy and to a much lesser extent Angel were good fantasy programming, they were just a cutesy reboot of the romantic vampire twist made popular by Anne Rice. Besides I loved Dr Who first


 
Buffy and Angel where in no way a Lestat remake.

I refer you to the Dracula episode.


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## 8den (Jun 3, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> No. Was it a remake of the TV series?


 
Or the little film he wrote "Toy Story".  Or the fact that while in post on the Avenger's he made a bloody good version of Much Ado about Nothing.


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## ViolentPanda (Jun 3, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's actually _Wil_ Wheaton. For some reason.


 
Wheaton is quite good as an uptight scientist in the 4th season of "A Town Called Eureka". Far less wooden than he was as Wesley Crusher.


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## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

8den said:


> Or the little film he wrote "Toy Story" .


Who knows the name of scriptwriters, though? I could tell you it was Pixar and John Lasseter was the director. But scriptwriters? No. Not unless it's Graham Green or something.


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## kabbes (Jun 3, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Who knows the name of scriptwriters, though? I could tell you it was Pixar and John Lasseter was the director. But scriptwriters? No. Not unless it's Graham Green or something.


 
Scriptwriting is quite important though, isn't it?  Particularly given that we were talking about who should do the scriptwriting for Doctor Who


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## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2013)

8den said:


> Or the little film he wrote* "Toy Story"*. Or the fact that while in post on the Avenger's he made a bloody good version of Much Ado about Nothing.


 

amazing how crude and bad the CGI of that looks today. Great in its time, but now looks like it was done on a spectrum


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## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

kabbes said:


> Particularly given that we were talking about who should do the scriptwriting for Doctor Who


You were. I think the current writers are perfectly capable of doing a good job, as they have demonstrated. Perhaps they just need a break.


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## ginger_syn (Jun 3, 2013)

8den said:


> Buffy and Angel where in no way a Lestat remake.
> 
> I refer you to the Dracula episode.


that's not what I said, though my wording is a bit imprecise, to clarify Buffy is a cutesy reboot of the romantic vampire genre previously made popular by. writers such as Anne Rice and others. 

also wouldn't firefly have been a better comparison as that is at least in the same sf genre.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2013)

Anne Rice made an overt celebration of the sexual subtext in the vampiric mythos. She also wrote erotica novels. It was good while it lasted but by the time of 'Lives of the mayfair witches' she wasn't just spreading it thin, she'd lost the butterknife


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## barney_pig (Jun 3, 2013)

M





ViolentPanda said:


> Wheaton is quite good as an uptight scientist in the 4th season of "A Town Called Eureka". Far less wooden than he was as Wesley Crusher.


Meh plays a pretty good version of wil Wheaton on Big Bang theory


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## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

I really hope they get Dennis Kelly to write an episode at some point.  

Sand, bleach, chilli, sonic screwdriver...


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## 8den (Jun 3, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> that's not what I said, though my wording is a bit imprecise, to clarify Buffy is a cutesy reboot of the romantic vampire genre previously made popular by. writers such as Anne Rice and others.


 
Buffy is the antithesis of the romantic vampire genre. For starts the relationship with Angel was pretty much over by the end of the second series, and finished completely by the end of the 3rd.

The entire premise of Buffy was the idea of the poor helpless woman wandering down a dark alley alone, and kicking the monster's ass.



> also wouldn't firefly have been a better comparison as that is at least in the same sf genre.


 
Firefly only lasted 10 episodes. Buffy had series long arcs the kind of thing Moffat and RTD try and fail to write.[/quote][/quote]


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## 8den (Jun 3, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Who knows the name of scriptwriters, though? I could tell you it was Pixar and John Lasseter was the director. But scriptwriters? No. Not unless it's Graham Green or something.


 
Some of us do. You really don't think scriptwriting talent doesn't count.

And Weedon went on to write 4 cult Sci Fi series (Buffy, Angel, Serenity and Dollhouse) the 1st two ran over 100 episodes each, he also had a excellent run writing the Astonishing X men comic, and the Avengers movie.


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## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Anne Rice made an overt celebration of the sexual subtext in the vampiric mythos. She also wrote erotica novels. It was good while it lasted but by the time of 'Lives of the mayfair witches' she wasn't just spreading it thin, she'd lost the butterknife


 
The Vampire Lestat & Queen of the Damned were her high point. Utter tragedy that the film was such a low-budget B-movie piece of straight to DVD crap. Interview was a _much_ less substantial book in terms of plot, characterisation etc and they turned it into a fucking brilliant film. The adaptations of the sequals should have been far, far better - but someone must have fucked up the rights sales or something. Real shame.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2013)

No see, I thought Interview worked both as book and film because it just had it. Set pieces, trad roles- it was ripe for what became a very very good vampire film.

I'm not sure you could do a decent film intepretation of the latter novels. And yes I did watch that POS film of QOTD.

Mind you, I spent my teenage years solemnly declaring that Lord of The Rings would be unfilmable so what do I know


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## ginger_syn (Jun 3, 2013)

8den Buffy and Angel are not by any stretch of the imagination sci-fi,  they are fairytale fantasy.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 3, 2013)

its a fluid field


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 3, 2013)

8den said:


> Firefly only lasted 10 episodes. Buffy had series long arcs the kind of thing Moffat and RTD try and fail to write.


[/quote][/quote]
Firefly had a few arcs and was written for 24 eps but only 12 were made. The missing episodes were filled in for the most part in the comic strip and a bit of the film. It was far superior to Buffy, it lost loads in the ratings because nobody ever knew when it was going to be on. The network kept changing it, sometimes after print for some reason.


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## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> 8den Buffy and Angel are not by any stretch of the imagination sci-fi, they are fairytale fantasy.


 
They're also totally shite when compared to Grimm, which _*is*_ the same genre.


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## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

8den said:


> You really don't think scriptwriting talent doesn't count.


That isn't what I said. I said I hadn't heard of him.


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## 8den (Jun 3, 2013)

Corax said:


> They're also totally shite when compared to Grimm, which _*is*_ the same genre.


 
Grimm has been around of one series. I'll hold my breath on that assessment.


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## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

8den said:


> Grimm has been around of one series. I'll hold my breath on that assessment.


 
Two series, and renewed for a third.  I'm still on series one but my OH has watched all of them and I'm told series two is far better.  Which sounds good, because the first one's already quality.


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## ginger_syn (Jun 3, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> its a fluid field


not to me,  well apart from Frankenstein and Alien


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## ginger_syn (Jun 3, 2013)

Corax said:


> They're also totally shite when compared to Grimm, which _*is*_ the same genre.


that statement is so wrong no matter how good Grimm  might be


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## Corax (Jun 3, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> that statement is so wrong no matter how good Grimm might be


 
You either believe that Buffy and Angel are _infinitely_ good (literally), or you don't think they're in the same genre of dark fairy-tale fantasy stuff.  Neither of which makes much sense.


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## scifisam (Jun 3, 2013)

Corax said:


> You either believe that Buffy and Angel are _infinitely_ good (literally), or you don't think they're in the same genre of dark fairy-tale fantasy stuff.  Neither of which makes much sense.



Where'd the infinitely good or not fantasy bit come from? 

I really like Grimm, but it doesn't have the scope of Buffy and probably never will. It's still good and, since it started several years after Buffy ended, they're hardly in competition. I could very easily imagine a crossover. Hundreds of fanfic writers definitely have.


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## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

Can we take all this Buffy talk elsewhere?


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## Reno (Jun 3, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Can we take all this Buffy talk elsewhere?


 
Doctor Who isn't on tonight !


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## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

Reno said:


> Doctor Who isn't on tonight !


Buffy isn't on this decade.


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## Reno (Jun 3, 2013)

What else are we going to talk about till Christmas ?


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## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

Reno said:


> What else are we going to talk about till Christmas ?


The 50th Anniversary episode: who will play Hartnell and Troughton; who the Hurt character is; whether Clara will be replaced; and whether the film will be during the reign of the next Doctor.


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## Gromit (Jun 3, 2013)

Reno said:


> What else are we going to talk about till Christmas ?



Eastenders?


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## ginger_syn (Jun 3, 2013)

Corax said:


> You either believe that Buffy and Angel are _infinitely_ good (literally), or you don't think they're in the same genre of dark fairy-tale fantasy stuff.  Neither of which makes much sense.


I know my posts are a bit nit-picking but you taken it to a new and bewildering level, to clarify my meaning Buffy was never  shite it was one of the best fantasy programs of its time and that won't change no matter how good subsequent programs are, so I think your post was wrong.

Dr Who is brilliant  just to get vaguely back on thread topic


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## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> Dr Who is brilliant just to get vaguely back on thread topic


*Like.*


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## Gromit (Jun 3, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> I know my posts are a bit nit-picking but you taken it to a new and bewildering level, to clarify my meaning Buffy was never  shite it was one of the best fantasy programs of its time and that won't change no matter how good subsequent programs are, so I think your post was wrong.



I'm reminded of:


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## Lord Camomile (Jun 3, 2013)

Gromit said:


> I'm reminded of:


Not related to much at all, but from that 8 second clip I got to an early Pegg standup routine to a Mitch Hedberg routine I hadn't seen and now I'm watching Hedberg's half hour special.

The fucking internet man, seriously. I'm supposed to be eating!


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## Gromit (Jun 3, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> Not related to much at all,



Its the end to a running gag about fans getting overly protective / emotional about there particular fan focus.


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## Lord Camomile (Jun 3, 2013)

No, I got what the clip was about, I meant by subsequent witterings weren't related to much at all, I just felt compelled to share.

You're welcome, btw


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## Gromit (Jun 3, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> You're welcome, btw



Are you guessing that I watched the Early Pegg video?

Actually I did. The I went into a Steve Wright video (still genius) as I couldn't see anything to do with Mitch Hedberg.


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## Lord Camomile (Jun 4, 2013)

Gromit said:


> Are you guessing that I watched the Early Pegg video?


What? No, I... It was another gag, as if you should be grateful for my witterings.

This has gone downhill much faster than I expected given I started pretty low in the first place


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## ginger_syn (Jun 4, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> The 50th Anniversary episode: who will play Hartnell and Troughton; who the Hurt character is; whether Clara will be replaced; and whether the film will be during the reign of the next Doctor.


don't forget An adventure in space and time.  does anyone know roughly when it will be shown?


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## 8den (Jun 8, 2013)

Corax said:


> They're also totally shite when compared to Grimm, which _*is*_ the same genre.


 
Having just watched the 2nd episode of Grimm I have to say that is the most flat out wrong bullshit I've ever read on urban (excluding shite posted by Jazzz).

Oh and Grimm is Exe Produced by David Greenwalt (the lesser half of the producing Due behind Buffy & Angel) the McCartney to Weedon's Lennon if you will.

Utter utter cack.


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## Corax (Jun 9, 2013)

8den said:


> Having just watched the 2nd episode of Grimm I have to say that is the most flat out wrong bullshit I've ever read on urban (excluding shite posted by Jazzz).
> 
> Oh and Grimm is Exe Produced by David Greenwalt (the lesser half of the producing Due behind Buffy & Angel) the McCartney to Weedon's Lennon if you will.
> 
> Utter utter cack.


 
Get off the fence!


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## 8den (Jun 9, 2013)

Corax said:


> Get off the fence!


 
Also the male lead in Grimm looks like a cheap Burmese knock off Brandon Routh. Who himself looks like a cheap Taiwanese knock off Christopher Reeve.


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