# Market traders-can they really make much money?



## thriller (Jul 6, 2010)

I was wandering. I mean you see these market traders in Brixton-especially around the recreation centre and near Iceland/Boots selling cheap made in China toys and cheap jeans etc. 

How much money can these traders possibly make? 

Are we talking about takings of £150 a week or even less? 

What about these fruit sellers?

What about them small cubicles selling international phone cards. They cant make much money can they?


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## weltweit (Jul 6, 2010)

Oh some market traders do very well. 

They would not bother if there was no money in it!


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## weltweit (Jul 6, 2010)

I know of a woman who started selling clothes at free markets and car boot sales, after a while she had a few trucks and was at a few different venus at the same time. Eventually she was raided by the inland revenue for VAT fraud. You have to turn over something like £55k to qualify for VAT, she was way over that.


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## thriller (Jul 6, 2010)

weltweit said:


> I know of a woman who started selling clothes at free markets and car boot sales, after a while she had a few trucks and was at a few different venus at the same time. Eventually she was raided by the inland revenue for VAT fraud. You have to turn over something like £55k to qualify for VAT, she was way over that.





problem with things like that is people just dont know when to stop.


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## thriller (Jul 6, 2010)

on a side note was walking past that fruit stall just next to/opposite boots a month ago, when I heard the girl behind the tall stall say to this old women "sorry I need to go to the toilet" and ducked down. Did her pee and stood up again. I thought to myself, do the guys do the same and if so, where do they wash their hands-especially when they would be handling the fruits


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## ska invita (Jul 6, 2010)

weltweit said:


> Oh some market traders do very well.



definitely. this time next year some of them will be millionaires!


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## Laughing Toad (Jul 6, 2010)

There's a shop on the corner where Dulwich Road meets Brixton Water Lane, opposite Effra Parade. It's called '_The Chocolate Box'_. I have never seen a person in there. It can't possibly be making any money whatsoever, can it?


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## tarannau (Jul 6, 2010)

I've been in the Chocolate Box or more than a few occasions when I lived that way. I used to prefer the old owner and his dodgy harem of occasional hangers on and assistants.


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## Kanda (Jul 6, 2010)

I worked on the markets from age 13-17. Full time from 15... They can make a fuck ton of money. I used to travel all over the sth east to various different markets... Selling girls clothes


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## rover07 (Jul 6, 2010)

What was the hardest part of market trading? Where did you get your stock from?


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## Kanda (Jul 6, 2010)

Really early mornings. Up at anytime between 3-5am home anytime between 5-9pm depends if we set up more than one stall or not. On Wednesdays i used to setup in Milton Keynes, then Stevenage, then pitsea in Southend... Then run back and take them all down at the end of the day...


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## butchersapron (Jul 6, 2010)

Two man:  Grand a week min, 5 grand if with good wind.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Really early mornings. Up at anytime between 3-5am home anytime between 5-9pm depends if we set up more than one stall or not. On Wednesdays i used to setup in Milton Keynes, then Stevenage, then pitsea in Southend... Then run back and take them all down at the end of the day...




ahem, Pitsea is *not *in Southend


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## Kanda (Jul 6, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> ahem, Pitsea is *not *in Southend



Near enough.


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## rover07 (Jul 6, 2010)

Wow 3 in a day! I didnt realise traders did that? Can traders now compete with Primark etc...or doesnt it matter.

I was thinking of a sock stall here in Brighton on a Saturday! But where do i get stock cheaply? Any ideas?


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## thriller (Jul 6, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Two man:  Grand a week min, 5 grand if with good wind.



no way. 

I wonder what is the most lucrative market stall in brixton? Who has the best pitch.


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## Kanda (Jul 6, 2010)

This was back in 1988 ish... No clue!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Near enough.




I'd guess maybe 10 miles but I've no idea of distances.

You wouldn't say you worked Brixton market in Kingston would you?  eh?


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## butchersapron (Jul 6, 2010)

thriller said:


> no way.
> 
> I wonder what is the most lucrative market stall in brixton? Who has the best pitch.



That's driving around all day everyday from 4 am, but yes. Real £


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## Kanda (Jul 6, 2010)

thriller said:


> no way.
> 
> I wonder what is the most lucrative market stall in brixton? Who has the best pitch.



Easily. It's very seasonal though unless you're one of those huge veg stalls that frequent markets, that's proper hard work though, they used to employ about 10 kids per stall


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## Kanda (Jul 6, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I'd guess maybe 10 miles but I've no idea of distances.
> 
> You wouldn't say you worked Brixton market in Kingston would you?  eh?



Distances in London are a bit different... Stop being pinickity...


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## rover07 (Jul 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> This was back in 1988 ish... No clue!



Ah 

I will search for a sock source ...or maybe girls clothes


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## Kanda (Jul 6, 2010)

We were beds/bucks based and there were a lot of small clothes manufacturers around Luton etc. Same when my old man used to do it in Kent, numerous small manufacturers around Chatham/Gillingham.


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## rover07 (Jul 6, 2010)

Buying mostly left over stock? Or regular orders? I wonder if those factories still exist in Kent... or is it all imported now.


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## Kanda (Jul 6, 2010)

When I used to do it with my Dad, my mum was a seamstress earning a shit wage in one of these factories, we worked out a sale or return deal. It was a few small Indian run clothing manufacturers. Employment law and health and safety probably wiped these sort of places out ages ago


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## editor (Jul 6, 2010)

I worked on a market stall inside Covent Garden market. I was selling hideous knitted jumpers seemingly designed for Americans with no taste. The stall took a fair wedge of cash every week.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 6, 2010)

editor said:


> I worked on a market stall inside Covent Garden market. I was selling hideous knitted jumpers seemingly designed for Americans with no taste. The stall took a fair wedge of cash every week.



Did they have skiers on them?


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## editor (Jul 6, 2010)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Did they have skiers on them?


They had weird bobbles on them. Awful things.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Distances in London are a bit different... Stop being pinickity...




Sorry, but being an ex-resident of Southend, we wouldn't dream of going to Pitsea, it's so near Basildon


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## rover07 (Jul 6, 2010)

Maybe 

Thanks for the info. Im in the process of quitting my job...thought a stall might be a possible stopgap!


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jul 6, 2010)

editor said:


> They had weird bobbles on them. Awful things.




oh, I remember them.  English people wore them as well you know.  Not me though.  Sometimes it's a good thing being poor


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## Gixxer1000 (Jul 6, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Two man:  Grand a week min, 5 grand if with good wind.



Yep, reliably informed that a small coffee stall at camden market takes 5K a week. (all tax free too)


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## sheothebudworths (Jul 6, 2010)

I've sold indian clothes/jewellery/bedpreads etc, cd's, milkshakes/cakes, ice creams (from an unlicensed van in Oxford Street/Kensington - nightmare, lol), balinese clothes, afghani hats/slipper socks/gloves, hair wraps/fruit wine/decorated glassware (lightbulbs and candle holders and that).

St Martins in the fields, Camden Lock, Spitalfields, Elephant, fly pitching at Angel, Leather Lane, Glastonbury, Strawberry Fayre, Merton Abbey Mills and some babby festivals too.

All early to mid nineties.

Got boring. 

Mostly working for other people, with your days spent with other people asking how much you'd made  - fly pitching was the best (slipper socks, gloves and hats at Xmas), for obvious reasons*. 







*Our own, obv, and plotted up next to someone who finally taught me how to see magic eye pictures....WAYHEYYY!!!! Bought all our dinners from Marks and Spencer for the duration etc.... :-p

*And actually, more seriously  - usually plotted up next to other people who don't make much usually, so four weeks of hard work and you're all buzzing.  

My boss on the indian goods stall was a 'buddhist' who used to chant to make more money each morning. 
He wrote a right wank book too about his 'travels' in India which he used to produce everytime anyone wanted to buy anything - total fucking embarrassment. 

Moneywise - they all raked it in for a while (but not _that_ much - you had to put the full week and suffer the quiet days to benefit, rent wise etc), but eventually someone else'd turn up selling for lower - quite stressful, really. 

Lots of nice people but _lots_ of nosiness and bitching and backstabbing too (normal job, then, hehe).

Meant nothing to me, obv  - my worst time was a bout of severe cystitis during a cold winter with only me on the stall and the bogs right over there --------->


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## Kanda (Jul 6, 2010)

Doing stalls in the snow for 12+ hours a day was a killer, you couldn't even warm up in time for the next day! Fucktons of cups of Bovril!!


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 7, 2010)

so how much does a pitch on the market cost then?


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## Kanda (Jul 7, 2010)

Brixton Hatter said:


> so how much does a pitch on the market cost then?



Brixton Market? Fuck nows.... 

Back in the day it used to be £15 for a single pitch generally, not Brixton though, I used to work Strutton Ground market as well, that was quite a bit more. Ask someone on the market how to get in touch with the Market inspector?


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## sheothebudworths (Jul 7, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Doing stalls in the snow for 12+ hours a day was a killer, you couldn't even warm up in time for the next day! Fucktons of cups of Bovril!!



Try doing it _with cystitis!_   

But yeah - gets into your bones after a couple of hours and no amount of layers or hopping about stops that, eh! <shakes>

Summer's a different matter though, tbf!* 






*unless you're indoors


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## Jonti (Jul 7, 2010)

thriller said:


> no way.
> 
> I wonder what is the most lucrative market stall in brixton? Who has the best pitch.


The traditional Fruit & Veg stalls have the greatest turnover (but of course their profit margins are small, so that doesn't translate into profit!).  The most sought after pitches are those nearest the main road.

The fee for a pitch in Electric Avenue varies depending on the day of the week, but last I knew it was around £15 per day. Lambeth Council issue the licenses to trade. In order to get a license you must prove your identity and where you live, and have public liability insurance.   

Market traders in Brixton do not earn a great deal ~ none that I know of hit the VAT thresholds on turnover (except maybe fruit & veg ~ but they're exempt anyway). They also have to cope with a Local Authority that seems determined to make life difficult for market traders.

If that sounds harsh, just consider how the Car Park that serves the market was suddenly closed just before Christmas, with no provision for any replacement car parking made until six months later. And then only a few dozen parking places were made available. That comes nowhere close to replacing the several hundred places in the now closed Popes Road multistorey that were lost.

It's been a massive blow to the market, with some traders complaining their turnover has declined to about one half of what it was this time last year.


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## snowy_again (Jul 7, 2010)

I saturday'd on the SWAG stall just inside the corner of the Pope's Road covered market. You'd be amazed at the shite people will buy, but I did work for the man who introduced the Rubik Snake into the UK. He made a fortune from that.


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## Gramsci (Jul 7, 2010)

Jonti said:


> The traditional Fruit & Veg stalls have the greatest turnover (but of course their profit margins are small, so that doesn't translate into profit!).  The most sought after pitches are those nearest the main road.
> 
> The fee for a pitch in Electric Avenue varies depending on the day of the week, but last I knew it was around £15 per day. Lambeth Council issue the licenses to trade. In order to get a license you must prove your identity and where you live, and have public liability insurance.
> 
> ...



Accurate post. A lot of the market traders really struggle and have so for years. 

There is a (mainly middle class ) assumption that all those working people who do these jobs are having the life of reilly. Its one of those dinner party topics beloved of the well to do. Along with house prices, getting Tamsin into the right school.


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## butchersapron (Jul 7, 2010)

Is it? is it really?


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## Dr. Furface (Jul 7, 2010)

When I was 15/16 I used to bunk off school and work for a neighbour on his stall selling womens underwear . He only did 3 markets a week - although other days he'd go off buying stock - and he was loaded. It wasn't easy money though, he worked long hours, but he had a great personality for it.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Jul 7, 2010)

Gixxer1000 said:


> Yep, reliably informed that a small coffee stall at camden market takes 5K a week. (all tax free too)


Someone is going to get a knock on their door I think.



Jonti said:


> The traditional Fruit & Veg stalls have the greatest turnover (but of course their profit margins are small, so that doesn't translate into profit!).  The most sought after pitches are those nearest the main road.
> 
> The fee for a pitch in Electric Avenue varies depending on the day of the week, but last I knew it was around £15 per day. Lambeth Council issue the licenses to trade. In order to get a license you must prove your identity and where you live, and have public liability insurance.
> 
> ...


Yes, they have been whittling it down slowly; I used to love the "second hand" stalls there it used to be great deal heaven, that and all the second hand shops which were wiped out by crack converter, the junkies friend™


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## skyscraper101 (Jul 7, 2010)

What I want to know is who buys these shit plastic toys and stuff?

Like, I walk through Shepherds Bush market from time to time and can't see one stall I would want anything from. It's either tacky mobile phone accessories, plastic chinese made toys, crap ethnic clothes, and so on. Who are these people buying all this tat?


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 7, 2010)

For stock, lots of manufacturers and wholesalers are listed in "The Trader" (monthly mag) and on their website.


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## Gramsci (Jul 7, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Is it? is it really?



I get around a bit and mix in different circles. You might be surprised at the amount of explanation I have to do. People really live separate lives in the country.


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## Gramsci (Jul 7, 2010)

wemakeyousoundb said:


> Someone is going to get a knock on their door I think.
> 
> 
> Yes, they have been whittling it down slowly; I used to love the "second hand" stalls there it used to be great deal heaven, that and all the second hand shops which were wiped out by crack converter, the junkies friend™



 I remember ages ago these junkies trying to sell me some meat. It was all packaged up in cellophane. I said no way as I didnt know how long they had been walking around with it. 

The other funny one was when i had a clear out. I put the stuff in bib bags and outside for collection. The junkies at that time were going through all our rubbish. I went to my off licence later. There was junkie trying to sell an old broken toy i had chucked to me. Well its enterprising.


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## Winot (Jul 7, 2010)

Jonti said:
			
		

> The fee for a pitch in Electric Avenue varies depending on the day of the week, but last I knew it was around £15 per day.



Seems extraordinarily cheap (I don't mean compared to other markets - I've no clue at all about this topic - just in absolute terms).


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## lang rabbie (Jul 7, 2010)

Lambeth Pitch fees are still around £15 a day for traders who are there six days a week - but higher for the casual attenders:

Details of the street trading fees and charges for 2010/11 and 2011/12 in Lambeth.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jul 8, 2010)

lang rabbie said:


> Lambeth Pitch fees are still around £15 a day for traders who are there six days a week - but higher for the casual attenders:
> 
> Details of the street trading fees and charges for 2010/11 and 2011/12 in Lambeth.


Interesting. And as cheap as £6 on Wednesdays! (Why are Wednesday's cheaper?) At least the prices are low enough for people to try and make a living. Almost makes me want to give up the day job and swap it for chilling in the market all day...


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## happyshopper (Jul 8, 2010)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Why are Wednesday's cheaper?



Because it's early closing day.


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## thriller (Jul 8, 2010)

Can you nick some of the established market pitches? Like Stuart the watchmen's pitch. He is always there at the same spot on Saturday. Would love to see someone nick his pitch as he fucked my watch up one time.


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