# Apple iPhone and related items (cont.)



## editor (Feb 5, 2008)

Following on from this bumper 1,700+ post thread here's part two!


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## Kanda (Feb 5, 2008)

It's shit
No it's not
yes it is
no it's not
yes it is

Just thought I'd do a quick summary of the previous thread


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2008)

editor said:


> Following on from this bumper 1,700+ post thread here's part two!



Lame! Now you get the credit for starting the massive fight and not me!


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## rocketman (Feb 5, 2008)

Just out of interest, how many gigabytes does the urban archive take up these days?


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## editor (Feb 5, 2008)

rocketman said:


> Just out of interest, how many gigabytes does the urban archive take up these days?


I think about 1.5GB for the whole t'ing.


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## Crispy (Feb 5, 2008)

I checked. it's 2.12 GB now


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## rocketman (Feb 5, 2008)

Crispy said:


> I checked. it's 2.12 GB now



So, in perspective, you could archive 15 Urbans on an iPod touch, or 7.5 on an iPhone.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2008)

rocketman said:


> So, in perspective, you could archive 15 Urbans on an iPod touch, or 7.5 on an iPhone.



Without doubt that's one of the most unique things I've ever read on urban75 about the iPhone.


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## editor (Feb 5, 2008)

rocketman said:


> So, in perspective, you could archive 15 Urbans on an iPod touch, or 7.5 on an iPhone.


Yes. The entire boards would fit on a £10 memory stick.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2008)

Dramatic stuff this from a company that a year ago didn't even have a phone out:



> Canalys reported on both U.S. and Q4 2007 mobile phone marketshare numbers today and listed Apple's iPhone as #3 (6.5%) in smart phone marketshare worldwide despite being only available in a few countries. Apple trailed Nokia (52.9%) and RIM (11.4%) who were #1 and #2, respectively, in the worldwide market.



Incredible.


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## paolo (Feb 6, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Dramatic stuff this from a company that a year ago didn't even have a phone out:
> 
> Incredible.



Anyone know what categorises something as a smartphone, in this analysis? For example, is everything running Symbian considered a smartphone?


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## editor (Feb 6, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Anyone know what categorises something as a smartphone, in this analysis? For example, is everything running Symbian considered a smartphone?


Overall, Nokia absolutely _rule_ the mobile roost, hogging a massive 40.0 percent or world sales, followed by Samsung at 13.9 percent, Motorola at 12.2 percent, Sony Ericsson's at 9.2 percent and fifth-placed LG Electronics' at 7.1 percent.

Nokia are so huge that they produce 1.5 million phones _*per day*_!

http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,141858-page,1/article.html

Apple did a bit of a shifty one by declaring its phone a smartphone when it's really a feature phone.  By doing so they were able to loudly trumpet their high ranking 'smartphone' sales  when in reality the iPhone would barely register in its true 'feature phone' category.

http://www.betanews.com/article/Report_Apple_IPhone_Not_a_Smartphone/1169746276


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## paolo (Feb 6, 2008)

Just to clarify my question.

Kid quoted smartphone figures from Canalys.

Does anyone know what Canalys defines a smartphone as?


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## Kanda (Feb 6, 2008)

I got a 16GB iPhone last night, impressed so far. They were out of stock of Macbook Airs though!


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## bouncer_the_dog (Feb 6, 2008)

I'd like an iPhone after my iPod touch experience - except now I have an iPod touch I have quite enough touch screen apple products! They are great fun to use!


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## editor (Feb 6, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Kid quoted smartphone figures from Canalys.
> 
> Does anyone know what Canalys defines a smartphone as?


There is no industry-wide definition of what a smartphone is, so putting the iPhone in that category was entirely Canalys's decision - probably because they figured by doing so the report would get more publicity, or maybe they believe it really is a smartphone.

ABI Research defines a smartphone as “a cellular handset using an open, commercial operating system that supports third-party applications," and that's clearly doesn't fit the current iPhone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartphone
http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/the-iphone-is-not-a-smartphone/


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## Xanadu (Feb 6, 2008)

editor said:


> Nokia are so huge that they produce 1.5 million phones _*per day*_!




Sounds completely wasteful to me.  But then the electronics industry is like that I suppose.  The price we pay for moving forward...


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## editor (Feb 6, 2008)

Xanadu said:


> Sounds completely wasteful to me.  But then the electronics industry is like that I suppose.  The price we pay for moving forward...


Brits _threw away_ something like 2 million phones over the last Christmas period.


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## rocketman (Feb 6, 2008)

editor said:


> Brits _threw away_ something like 2 million phones over the last Christmas period.



BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE RECYCLED
Bloody trailer trash Brits, one brain cell between them


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## editor (Feb 6, 2008)

rocketman said:


> BUT THEY SHOULD HAVE RECYCLED
> Bloody trailer trash Brits, one brain cell between them


Yep. It's a disgrace, but a not unexpected side effect of our throwaway _must get the latest thing _consumerist culture.


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## rocketman (Feb 6, 2008)

editor said:


> Yep. It's a disgrace, but a not unexpected side effect of our throwaway _must get the latest thing _consumerist culture.



But to save the economy we must BUY BUY BUY


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 6, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I got a 16GB iPhone last night, impressed so far. They were out of stock of Macbook Airs though!



If you waited, you could have got one with double the capacity

Apple yesterday announced they are doubling the capacity of the iPhones and iPod touches to 32Gig

http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9864893-37.html?tag=nefd.top

http://www.nme.com/news/ipod/34110


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## Kanda (Feb 6, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> If you waited, you could have got one with double the capacity
> 
> Apple yesterday announced they are doubling the capacity of the iPhones and iPod touches to 32Gig
> 
> ...


 
Erm.. huh???

I got a 16GB iPhone last night, the day it was released. That article doesn't say about 32GB iPhones (unless I am blind!)


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## Dask (Feb 6, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> If you waited, you could have got one with double the capacity
> 
> Apple yesterday announced they are doubling the capacity of the iPhones and iPod touches to 32Gig
> 
> ...




They announced a 16GB iPhone and a 32GB iPod Touch.

NOT A 32GB iPhone!


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## skyscraper101 (Feb 6, 2008)

Oh yeh....sorry, I didn't read it properly.  @ self


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## editor (Feb 6, 2008)

Wooargh! Now that's what I call an iPhone knock off!
http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/06/keepin-it-real-fake-part-cix-c-002-hiphone-ups-the-ante


It's a total rip off but you gotta admire the innovation and the speed of the rip - the iClone comes with a removable battery, dual SIM cards and a microSD slot, as well as auto-rotate and multi-touch!  The package is cheap too, including 2 batteries, Charger, USB Cable, Earphone, 512M T-Flash Card, User Manual and Phone Cover for $240!


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## cliche guevara (Feb 6, 2008)

editor said:


> Wooargh! Now that's what I call an iPhone knock off!
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/06/keepin-it-real-fake-part-cix-c-002-hiphone-ups-the-ante
> 
> 
> It's a total rip off but you gotta admire the innovation and the speed of the rip - the iClone comes with a removable battery, dual SIM cards and a microSD slot, as well as auto-rotate and multi-touch!  The package is cheap too, including 2 batteries, Charger, USB Cable, Earphone, 512M T-Flash Card, User Manual and Phone Cover for $240!



How in hell do they get away with it? Is this being sold in America?


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 8, 2008)

*Apple event rumored for Feb 26th: 3G iPhone & SDK?*

Is a 3G iPhone coming soon or is there something a bit more exciting in the offing?



> Rumors are circulating that Apple are planning an iPhone-themed event on February 26th, at which they’ll announce both the long-awaited SDK and a 3G version of the iPhone itself.  The news would come only a month after Apple upgraded the original iPhone’s storage from 8GB to 16GB, but would fit in with AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson’s confirmation of a high-speed data version sometime in 2008 and his network’s increased roll-out of high-speed access.


And then there's this:



> Erica Sadun has been doing some digging around and found an extra platform in the iPod/iPhone lineup.  Along with the current iPod Touch (N45), iPhone (M68) and a "simulator"- which means the SDK will likely contain a simulator), she found reference a currently unknown "N82".   Could this be the new 3G iPhone set to be released later this year?  Or perhaps this could be a reference to a new Apple Tablet or Mac Touch?  Or maybe Apple putting out a Touch OS release (no) for Nokia's N82 Hardware?


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## Crispy (Feb 8, 2008)

Apple on Nokia? Not in a million years 

But yes, 3G iphone and SDK sounds very likely.


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## editor (Feb 8, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Apple on Nokia? Not in a million years


They can stare each other out across Regent Street now.


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## rocketman (Feb 8, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Apple on Nokia? Not in a million years
> 
> But yes, 3G iphone and SDK sounds very likely.



Doesn't Nokia use WebKit in a browser? If it does, then there should be an opportunity to sell apps to Nokia owners, though this is pure speculation, but mutually beneficial competition is the best way to go, I think that's what everyone bar Microsoft is coming to realise, hopefully


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## paolo (Feb 9, 2008)

Crispy said:


> But yes, 3G iphone... sounds very likely.



Announced this month? I'd be surprised myself.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 10, 2008)

Is there a price cut coming?



> 9to5Mac has received word that Apple is planning on dropping the prices on the iPhone and iPod line within the next month or two - perhaps at the rumoured late February event.
> 
> The price cut is said to be $100 on both the iPod touch and iPhone lines - and the 8GB iPod touch will apparently be dropped from the line-up just as the 4GB version of the iPhone was before it.
> 
> ...


Sounds plausible if you ask me...


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## jæd (Feb 10, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Sounds plausible if you ask me...



Sounds very obvious if you ask me and have any experience of Apple pricing strategies. Here's more "rumour". Apple will drop the 8 gb phone by mid Summer, perhaps June...


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 10, 2008)

jæd said:


> Sounds very obvious if you ask me and have any experience of Apple pricing strategies. Here's more "rumour". Apple will drop the 8 gb phone by mid Summer, perhaps June...



Yeah that rumour is in the article above...


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## editor (Feb 17, 2008)

Seeing as I'm about to fork out for a new phone shortly, I thought I'd give the iPhone another chance, so I spent a fair bit of time with a demo model in Carphone Warehouse yesterday and have to say I could not get on with that awful keyboard. 

I must have spent a good 5 minutes battling with it and it got no closer to even being remotely accurate. It was awful. Despite me really trying hard, words were coming out as compete gibberish. Worst of all (and maybe I missed something here) there was no way I could find to select a block of text to delete a part of it and start over.

Obviously I'm used to a hardware keyboard, but I would strongly suggest that anyone thinking about buying an iPhone gives its keyboard a real good try out first. It might work a treat for you but I hated it.


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## Gromit (Feb 17, 2008)

No highlight or cut and paste is one thing on most users wishlist. 

Its not available yet but sooner or later it may appear in a patch.

Personally i get on with the keyboard fine. The predictive text helps too.


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## riggers (Feb 17, 2008)

Been an iPhone user for a while and unless you are stationary attempting to text can be almost impossible 

It did take a few days for me to get used to the keyboard but now I'm fairly fast at one fingered texting, though I do need to look at the screen now.

Edge coverage is still nonexistent and if you are coming from a 3G phone dont expect even text based websites to load fast.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 17, 2008)

Marius said:


> Personally i get on with the keyboard fine. The predictive text helps too.



Me too, in fact I managed to use it perfectly well after a good few drinks. Crappy price and contact aside I'd seriously consider getting one once they up the storage to 32gb and it's 3G...


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## riggers (Feb 19, 2008)

You don't have to signup to an o2 contract. There is enough one click unlocking solutions available for free download online which don't require any IT knowledge.

If I wanted an iTouch i think spending an extra £60 to get an iPhone would make sense, £329 for a 16GB iPhone vs £269 for a 16GB iTouch.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 19, 2008)

editor said:


> It's a total rip off but you gotta admire the innovation and the speed of the rip - the iClone comes with a removable battery, dual SIM cards and a microSD slot, as well as auto-rotate and multi-touch!  The package is cheap too, including 2 batteries, Charger, USB Cable, Earphone, 512M T-Flash Card, User Manual and Phone Cover for $240!



Dual sim cards! I've seen this on phones on ebay, but never had the courage to buy a phone from a company I've never heard of. For me it would be a godsend!

Signal shit? Switching from 3 to Vodaphone.


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## dogmatique (Feb 19, 2008)

editor said:


> Seeing as I'm about to fork out for a new phone shortly, I thought I'd give the iPhone another chance, so I spent a fair bit of time with a demo model in Carphone Warehouse yesterday and have to say I could not get on with that awful keyboard.
> 
> I must have spent a good 5 minutes battling with it and it got no closer to even being remotely accurate. It was awful. Despite me really trying hard, words were coming out as compete gibberish. Worst of all (and maybe I missed something here) there was no way I could find to select a block of text to delete a part of it and start over.
> 
> Obviously I'm used to a hardware keyboard, but I would strongly suggest that anyone thinking about buying an iPhone gives its keyboard a real good try out first. It might work a treat for you but I hated it.



The keyboard's "intelligence" in being able to predict where your sausage like fingers are pounding relies very much on continued use by one person.  It learns pretty quickly which keys you tap wrong in relation to which words, and adjusts itself accordingly.

Largely I find this works pretty well, though it doesn't predict as well as a numerical keypad as there are much more options for the word being spelt on a full keyboard (albeit a virtual one) than with the finate options of a key which contains three letters combined with a previous keystroke.

The main point to pay attention to in the Ed's case is that the keypad he was pounding in the shop had been *pummelled by god knows how many people all hitting the keypad in different ways*, with the result that the keypad is very, very confused.

Having said that, I don't think the iPhone is suitable for the Ed as it has so many compatibility drawbacks and simple function omissons.


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## editor (Feb 19, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> The main point to pay attention to in the Ed's case is that the keypad he was pounding in the shop had been *pummelled by god knows how many people all hitting the keypad in different ways*, with the result that the keypad is very, very confused.


That's not actually true. I've tried five different iPhones, starting with the ones that had just been put on display in the Brixton Carphone Warehouse. It was just as bad as the one I tried on the weekend.


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## dogmatique (Feb 19, 2008)

Well, from my experience, limited to one iPhone used by just me, the keypad improves considerably in the first two weeks, so it does.

That said, again, virtual keypads will always suffer.


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## Sweaty Betty (Feb 19, 2008)

I want to love this phone, but i cant- i had a go on one and i wasnt impressed at all and i love all things mac...

Maybe by the time i get one they will have sorted out the functionality a bit better...


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## Kanda (Feb 19, 2008)

Keypad deffo gets easier. Just same as moving from Nokia to Sony-Ericcson texting for me.


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## Gromit (Feb 19, 2008)

Every post on here i make whilst in work I make via my iPhone.

There may be better mobile keyboards out there but it sufficient as far as I'm concerned.
If i was using it for business it might be different but its not really aimed at that market.

Overall its a phone thats simple to use and that makes me use it a lot instead of being put off from using it.


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## jæd (Feb 20, 2008)

editor said:
			
		

> So what "innovation" are you waiting for?
> 
> If it's cutting edge innovation you're after, you won't find it in the iPhone -  that barely passes for a real smartphone.



Apart from the multi-touch, intuitive ui...? Certainly innovative. On my Palm the touch screen was a stand in for a mouse and wasn't used to manipulate items directly.

Or the whole package, from sync-ing effortlessly, actually being able to use a real web-browser on the move, and not having to deal with the phone company (ie activation by computer). Not had that before. Even with my Treo I had to make calls to get it set-up and working.

Is is a Smartphone...? Well, it's a feature-packed phone that works effortlessly... Thats pretty "smart". And I guess next week you'll be working on a new definition anyhow...

And this leads to the innovation that I think is coming : how people interact with the Internet once the have it their pocket... Yep. there have been phones with web-browsers before but either the browser has been clunky or the phone has.

I'm thinking you'll disagree with this, but tbh, I think it shows you don't really understand the iPhone and what makes it so attractive to some people...


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## jæd (Feb 20, 2008)

Copy + Paste has been patented :


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## editor (Feb 20, 2008)

jæd said:


> Or the whole package, from sync-ing effortlessly, actually being able to use a real web-browser on the move, and not having to deal with the phone company (ie activation by computer). Not had that before. Even with my Treo I had to make calls to get it set-up and working.


Eh? That sounds like a problem with your network because I just put in my SIM card and was ready to use my Treo. Same for Eme. 

The Palm is very easy to sync and, of course, can currently sync far, far more content with desktops that the iPhone. Unlike the Apple product, Palm users can also install _thousands_ of third party programs, many of them having their own conduit.

And I'd say Apple's policies towards the user are the strictest I've ever known: 'Dare to add something without our permission and we'll try and brick it'. Nice.


jæd said:


> I'm thinking you'll disagree with this, but tbh, I think it shows you don't really understand the iPhone and what makes it so attractive to some people...


Don't patronise me please because you'll only end up looking stupid. I write about this kind of stuff for a living and fully understand the iPhone's considerable appeal. However, unlike you, I can understand that it's not the phone for everyone, a shiny interface isn't everything and there are substantial compromises involved. A nice web  browser is not at the top of the list for many mobile users, although it's certainly nice to have.

(apologies to others for talking about the Palm in this thread but jaed dragged my reply over from another thread for some reason)


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## jæd (Feb 20, 2008)

editor said:


> Don't patronise me please because you'll only end up looking stupid.



Um... Any chance of remaining civil...? I was hoping for a reasoned discussion... 



editor said:


> However, unlike you, I can understand that it's not the phone for everyone, a shiny interface isn't everything and there are substantial compromises involved.



Oh and, where I have said it was for everyone...? Ever since it was released I've made the point its a consumer phone...



editor said:


> (apologies for others for talking about the Palm in this thread but jaed dragged my reply over from another thread for some reason)



Because we started talking about the iPhone...


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## editor (Feb 20, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Dual sim cards! I've seen this on phones on ebay, but never had the courage to buy a phone from a company I've never heard of. For me it would be a godsend!
> 
> Signal shit? Switching from 3 to Vodaphone.


You can get dual sim card slots for the Palm Centro now.  

http://www.m-99.co.uk/Froogle/palm-centro-dual-sim.html


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## paolo (Feb 20, 2008)

I find typing on the iPhone fine. I get about 30wpm. I did two-handed from the get-go. One finger typing would be
much slower. Not everyone gets on with it. I think it helps if you are good on a qwerty keyboard... Typing on a 'pattern' basis and letting auto correct sort out the odd mistake. My main issue with it is that - when posting as part of a web page -it slows down as the text field becomes more populated, and the lack of c'n'p. 

But... even with these annoyances, the iPhone racks up a disproportionate amount of web traffic vs. any other mobile platform. For browsing, right now, I think it really rocks. The new Sony thing, due late this year, will up the ante. All in all, this is a good time for phone innovation. And I think the iPhone, for all it's imperfections, has been instrumental in that.


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## editor (Feb 20, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> But... even with these annoyances, the iPhone racks up a disproportionate amount of web traffic vs. any other mobile platform. For browsing, right now, I think it really rocks. The new Sony thing, due late this year, will up the ante.


You won't hear me knocking the iPhone's web browser: nothing comes even remotely close!

Of course, it's worth noting that web browsing often isn't the #1 priority for people buying a phone.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 20, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> I find typing on the iPhone fine. I get about 30wpm. I did two-handed from the get-go. One finger typing would be
> much slower. Not everyone gets on with it.



I think some people have a mental problem with it; I managed on the keyboard fine the first time I used it (and this was after a couple of pints and few double jack daniels and cokes!).


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## editor (Feb 20, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I think some people have a mental problem with it


That's a very odd thing to say.
Could you explain and define this "mental problem" please?


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 20, 2008)

editor said:


> That's a very odd thing to say.
> Could you explain and define this "mental problem" please?



It's not that odd when you think about it but I wouldn't worry about it. As you say about the Centro to me, the iPhone simply isn't for you so you needn't worry about how well other people get on with it.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 20, 2008)

This is crazy!


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## Kanda (Feb 20, 2008)

I agree. I have friends try to use it and fail, I can use it effortlessly on a wobbly train or bus whereas others couldn't use it if held in a vice


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 20, 2008)

editor said:


> You can get dual sim card slots for the Palm Centro now.
> 
> http://www.m-99.co.uk/Froogle/palm-centro-dual-sim.html



Indeed you can get them for most phones, but they wont connect to two networks at once, many require turning the phone of and on and struggle with 3g sim cards. For my nokia you also have to chop up your sim cards to make them fit and most of the cheap ones they come with scant information on what mods they do to your os to make the switch easy if its the non reboot type. Even questions of dedicated phone forums hasn't yielded me much info. Did find a company based in switerland (cant remember the site now) whose offering looked very good, but were also quite pricey.

One of the appeals of some the chinese phones I've seen one ebay is that they will connect to two networs at once.

If you try one of these cheap jobs, I'd be very intrested in how you get on!


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## editor (Feb 20, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's not that odd when you think about it but I wouldn't worry about it. As you say about the Centro to me, the iPhone simply isn't for you so you needn't worry about how well other people get on with it.


Difference is, I haven't suggested you have "mental problem" just because you're not keen on the phone.


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## pk (Feb 21, 2008)

I had a Nokia E61 for ages, full QUERTY and all that, it was nice and quick on the text, but big and bulky.

Much happier with the 8GB N95 I got the other day, massive memory and instant music player sounds great too.

I do love the Apple gear but can't see myself getting one of those phones until they are offered free with my phone contract.

Never trust Mac ware until it's hit version 4, after then it's usually bulletproof.

Good thing is you can play Youtube vids on an iPhone - can't get a decent FLV player for the Symbian OS as far as I know, or any other PDA, is that right??


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## editor (Feb 21, 2008)

You should be able to play YouTube vids on your N95 8GB:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/01/03/n95-8gb-updated-to-allow-full-youtubecom-access/

AFAIK, it's been possible for Palm users to play YouTube videos for some time thanks to the excellent Kinoma player
http://blog.kinoma.com/2008/02/real-youtube-vs-m-youtube-com/


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## jæd (Feb 21, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I agree. I have friends try to use it and fail, I can use it effortlessly on a wobbly train or bus whereas others couldn't use it if held in a vice



So far I haven't seen any of my friends having problems but thats just been them adding basic stuff like contact details... Could it be a mental block...? Might be... Once you relax and imagine its a real keyboard then your fine. That and trusting the suggestions. (If you use the keyboard more they seem to get more accurate). Or it could be just personal taste...


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## Crispy (Feb 21, 2008)

*shrug* some people don't use 'inverted' look controls in videogames. nothing wrong with em, just doesn't work like that for them.


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## jæd (Feb 21, 2008)

Crispy said:


> *shrug* some people don't use 'inverted' look controls in videogames. nothing wrong with em, just doesn't work like that for them.



I kind of meant more that (some) people see a virutal keyboard and say "Lawks...! A virtual keyboard...! I can't use that...! *Wibble*" than a serious mental condition...


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## editor (Feb 21, 2008)

jæd said:


> I kind of meant more that (some) people see a virutal keyboard and say "Lawks...! A virtual keyboard...! I can't use that...! *Wibble*" than a serious mental condition...


I've been using virtual keyboards for years on my ClieTH55, so I've certainly no mental 'issues' with using one. I just think they're horrible compared to real ones.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2008)

editor said:


> Difference is, I haven't suggested you have "mental problem" just because you're not keen on the phone.



Where have I suggested that you have, I was speaking generally not making a personal attack. But as I said it's not for you so don't worry about it...


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2008)

jæd said:


> So far I haven't seen any of my friends having problems but thats just been them adding basic stuff like contact details... Could it be a mental block...? Might be... Once you relax and imagine its a real keyboard then your fine. That and trusting the suggestions. (If you use the keyboard more they seem to get more accurate). Or it could be just personal taste...



Good post.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2008)

editor said:


> I've been using virtual keyboards for years on my ClieTH55, so I've certainly no mental 'issues' with using one. I just think they're horrible compared to real ones.



You used to type with your thumbs on the ClieTH55?


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## Gromit (Feb 21, 2008)

Ï'm tÿpîñg thìš wïth mÿ thümb

on the iPhone. No problems and even enough control to easily do special chars with no complicated fuss.


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## editor (Feb 21, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You used to type with your thumbs on the ClieTH55?


 I used fingers and thumbs. There's loads of third party 'virtual screens' available.

No "mental block" or "mental problems" at all.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2008)

Marius said:


> Ï'm tÿpîñg thìš wïth mÿ thümb
> 
> on the iPhone. No problems and even enough control to easily do special chars with no complicated fuss.



Your mind is in good working order then!


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## gabi (Feb 21, 2008)

Classic. Editor's disdain for all things Apple has finally been diagnosed. He's mentally ill..


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2008)

gabi said:


> Classic. Editor's disdain for all things Apple has finally been diagnosed. He's mentally ill..









You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.


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## editor (Feb 21, 2008)

gabi said:


> Classic. Editor's disdain for all things Apple has finally been diagnosed. He's mentally ill..


It's ridiculous, isn't it? And more than a bit insulting.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2008)

editor said:


> It's ridiculous, isn't it? And more than a bit insulting.



I thought Gabi was joking...anyway no one is saying you have a mental illness.


----------



## editor (Feb 21, 2008)

Any chance of getting the topic away from my supposed mental condition about virtual keyboards and back to the iPhone?


----------



## gabi (Feb 21, 2008)

Er yup, it was a joke... i dont think whoever claimed that there were mental issues here actually meant mentally ill  Just a mental block. Which I dont agree with either incidentally.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2008)

editor said:


> Any chance of getting the topic away from my supposed mental condition about virtual keyboards and back to the iPhone?



We never left talking about the iPhone.  We were talking about using the keyboard...anyway...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 21, 2008)

I'd like to see some decent handwritting rec on it, that would be sweet.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 21, 2008)

Apple already have decent handwriting tech - it's called inkwell and runs on OSX. I guess they don't want to burden the iphone with a stylus.


----------



## editor (Feb 21, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Apple already have decent handwriting tech - it's called inkwell and runs on OSX. I guess they don't want to burden the iphone with a stylus.


I got pretty nifty on the Palm 'Graffiti' handwriting app, but once you get a proper keyboard it really feels like a step back. 

My Windows Mobile phones had some sort of handwriting recognition  built in, but they were well fiddly. I think I'd prefer a gesture based system (like Graffiti) rather than proper handwriting recognition because it's way faster.


----------



## rocketman (Feb 21, 2008)

I really wish I had something valuable to add to this mis-titled Windows Mobile and Palm thread. I don't, so I reckon I'll just go away.Ooh - forgot to mention I wroted this using an Apple device. Is that so bad?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2008)

rocketman said:


> I really wish I had something valuable to add to this mis-titled Windows Mobile and Palm thread. I don't, so I reckon I'll just go away.Ooh - forgot to mention I wroted this using an Apple device. Is that so bad?




This thread is about the iPhone and related iPhone products...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 21, 2008)

editor said:


> I got pretty nifty on the Palm 'Graffiti' handwriting app, but once you get a proper keyboard it really feels like a step back.
> 
> My Windows Mobile phones had some sort of handwriting recognition  built in, but they were well fiddly. I think I'd prefer a gesture based system (like Graffiti) rather than proper handwriting recognition because it's way faster.



I had it on my motorola a1000 a few years back it was good, especially once you learnt what you could leave out of letters and them still be reconised. The proper keyboard on my e61 is still faster though. 

However had a go the other day on a proper tablet pc and was blown away by how good it was, think the only thing that could beat it (for me) would be a full size pc keyboard.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 23, 2008)

This is brilliant, play SNES games on your iPhone!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 23, 2008)

Again an old motorola did that and snes games + doom about 4 years ago. It would be horrible on a pure touch screen, no tactile feedback.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 23, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Again an old motorola did that and snes games + doom about 4 years ago. It would be horrible on a pure touch screen, no tactile feedback.



Fair point but it shows just how gaming could work on the iPhone. I was sceptical about the keyboard at first but having used it I found it fine. I don't expect it too be much different in this case either.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 23, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Fair point but it shows just how gaming could work on the iPhone. I was sceptical about the keyboard at first but having used it I found it fine. I don't expect it too be much different in this case either.



Advantages I could see is you could put keys where you want, a problem many phones have is that they make shit controllers, but then should we be supprised the iphone has the grunt to run them?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2008)

*Palm emulated on the iPhone*


----------



## editor (Feb 24, 2008)

Great! So you can have the most expensive Palm ever known - and with no synching or proper keyboard thrown in!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2008)

editor said:


> Great! So you can have the most expensive Palm ever known - and with no synching or proper keyboard thrown in!



Yep there's even less reason for Palm now!


----------



## editor (Feb 24, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep there's even less reason for Palm now!


That doesn't even make sense. I can run all those programs on a smaller phone that costs a fraction of the price without having to commit to an expensive 18 month contract (or a lifetime of pissing about with 'jailbreaking'). And, of course, they'd work properly on a Palm. I can't see how software conduits would work.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2008)

I was just a joke hence the cheesy grin.


----------



## jæd (Feb 24, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Advantages I could see is you could put keys where you want, a problem many phones have is that they make shit controllers, but then should we be supprised the iphone has the grunt to run them?



What are these "keys" you speak of. That is so 20th C...  Though I'd be more interested in Iphone specific games. Eg, Legos on the Iphone



Kid_Eternity said:


> *Palm emulated on the iPhone*



Nice. Fun to see the face-off between Apple fan-boys and their Palm counterparts...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2008)

jæd said:


> Nice. Fun to see the face-off between Apple fan-boys and their Palm counterparts...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 25, 2008)

*Another iPhone usability study - InUse says that iPhone is easy to use, most preferred*


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> *Another iPhone usability study - InUse says that iPhone is easy to use, most preferred*


A usability 'study' with a user base of, err just _five_ users! High end stuff indeed!

I'd agree that the iPhone is easier to use for basic phone functions than the HTC and maybe the Nokia, but this report reads like an extraordinarily biased piece of PR fluff: 


> The results? Stunning. The iPhone has introduced a new interaction paradigm to the world, in an uncompromising way that proves that “less is more” when it comes to true user experience.


----------



## Gromit (Feb 25, 2008)

Nine out of ten cats Purrrfur it:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 25, 2008)

editor said:


> A usability 'study' with a user base of, err just _five_ users! High end stuff indeed!
> 
> I'd agree that the iPhone is easier to use for basic phone functions than the HTC and maybe the Nokia, but this report reads like an extraordinarily biased piece of PR fluff:



Well no one's saying this is hard science or anything...so I wouldn't worry about it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 26, 2008)

Gizmodo have been trying out the snes on your iPhone and think it's quite playable.


----------



## jæd (Feb 27, 2008)

Interesting : Apple are going to hold an event outlining developments for the iPhone, including the SDK on 6 March : http://www.ipodnn.com/articles/08/02/27/apple.meeting.on.iphone/

And its a Thursday...!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 27, 2008)

So, let me get this straight, this sdk thing means 3rd parties being able to develop software for the iPhone?


----------



## editor (Feb 27, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So, let me get this straight, this sdk thing means 3rd parties being able to develop software for the iPhone?


Yes, but it's not like, say, Palm where anyone can knock out a program and serve it up. Herr Jobs has to approve.

http://developer.apple.com/internet/dotmackit.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 27, 2008)

So you'll be able to install 3rd party software on the iPhone? Meaning that it'll be a smartphone by that wiki definition you dug up a while back. Interesting...


----------



## editor (Feb 27, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So you'll be able to install 3rd party software on the iPhone? Meaning that it'll be a smartphone by that wiki definition you dug up a while back. Interesting...


Yes, it would finally qualify as a smartphone by then (by most definitions, although some may still quibble).


----------



## jæd (Feb 28, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So, let me get this straight, this sdk thing means 3rd parties being able to develop software for the iPhone?



Yes, depending on what is actually in the SDK...



Kid_Eternity said:


> So you'll be able to install 3rd party software on the iPhone? Meaning that it'll be a smartphone by that wiki definition you dug up a while back. Interesting...



In theory, yes. But one would have to wait until the roadmap event (and the eventual SDK) before delivery mechanisms where apparent. There's been some discussion/speculation that this might be through iTunes. It might also be able to do it directly...


----------



## Crispy (Feb 28, 2008)

It'll have to go through apple unless they make fundamental changes to the iphone's security model. At the moment, everything runs as root (yep, the iphone is unix at heart). This makes it trivial to create harmful software and virii. Apple either need to get userspace all partitioned off like a normal computer, or they need to have tight quality control over what gets released. My money's on the latter as well.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 28, 2008)

jæd said:


> Yes, depending on what is actually in the SDK...
> 
> 
> 
> In theory, yes. But one would have to wait until the roadmap event (and the eventual SDK) before delivery mechanisms where apparent. There's been some discussion/speculation that this might be through iTunes. It might also be able to do it directly...



I see...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 29, 2008)

SDK details, well some of them.



> According to several sources familiar with Apple’s iPhone and iPod touch software development kit (SDK) plans, the company will use a March 6 event in Cupertino, California to formally announce a number of potentially controversial limitations on application development and publishing. Our sources spoke on the condition that their comments were not for attribution, independently confirming the following details, and offering differing opinions of their importance. We include both the details and opinions below for your reference.
> 
> *iTunes Store as hub.* Least controversially, Apple plans to require that all mobile applications be distributed through its iTunes Store, making the Store a necessary hub for those interested in browsing or purchasing iPhone and iPod touch software. While one source suggested that a company’s well-trafficked website or product packaging would be considerably more practical places to distribute certain types of software, another source lauded the Store as a logical place for Apple users to locate and purchase applications.
> 
> *Apple as application picker.* The most controversial aspect of Apple’s SDK plan is its intention to formally approve or deny all SDK-based software releases for its devices. Our sources confirm that Apple will act as a gatekeeper for applications, deciding which are and are not worthy of release, and publishing only approved applications to the iTunes Store; a process that will less resemble the iTunes Store’s massive directory of podcasts than its sale of a limited variety of iPod Games. While one source saw this as a positive for major developers, suggesting that Apple will be choked by application submissions and forced to give priority to releases from larger companies, another source disagreed, stating that Apple’s current approval processes for third-party products have resulted in lengthy, needless delays. It is unclear whether Apple will need to approve subsequent bug fixes and feature additions to accepted applications, another issue that could clog the approval system and postpone important improvements.


Reading through the comments on the link above it seems some of the fans aint happy with this...



> I am terribly disappointed.  I understand that closed makes the iPhone safe.  A book is also safe.  A clock radio is safe.  A television is safe too.  I thought I was buying the world’s most powerful handheld computer.  Instead I was buying a closed portal to one company’s view of the world.
> Small companies will not be able to innovate applications for the iPhone.  Just wiped out what could have been a great cottage industry.
> IT organizations will not be able to write and load custom, proprietary applications.  Just wiped out a huge opportunity for demand.
> Owners will not be able to create their own applications.  Most people wouldn’t (and shouldn’t), but that will be all but impossible.
> ...


I used to be all for the free for all but after the absolute mess Facebook made with their F8 platform I can appreciate why a company would want some quality and strategic control over things like this.


----------



## paolo (Feb 29, 2008)

Not quite comparable with Facebook though, not in the way apps will manifest. There's loads of rubbish software for Windows, but it doesn't make Windows bad as such?


----------



## editor (Feb 29, 2008)

"Apple plans to require that all mobile applications be distributed through its iTunes Store"

That sucks so far _it's off the fucking scale._


----------



## editor (Feb 29, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I used to be all for the free for all but after the absolute mess Facebook made with their F8 platform I can appreciate why a company would want some quality and strategic control over things like this.


That's like saying you'd like Microsoft to be in charge of distributing all third party Windows  software so that they can keep "quality and strategic control."

It's a bullshit strategy.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 29, 2008)

bullshit indeed. there will be no freeware on the iphone, as getting stuff through apple's certification program will probably not be cheap (in time or money)

this won't go down well, if you ask me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 29, 2008)

editor said:


> That's like saying you'd like Microsoft to be in charge of distributing all third party Windows  software so that they can keep "quality and strategic control."
> 
> It's a bullshit strategy.



I don't think it is bullshit though, it makes perfect sense for them to want to control their product. I mean are we really shocked that Apple are acting in this way?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 29, 2008)

not particularly shocked, but it's still shit. OSX has a fantastic development environment, with access to really powerful libraries, with no restrictions on distribution. The iphone is being locked right down in comparison.


----------



## editor (Feb 29, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't think it is bullshit though, it makes perfect sense for them to want to control their product.


I'm not shocked in the slightest, but it _is_ bullshit.

I can't understand how you can defend such a closed proprietary system or why you think it's acceptable for Apple to 'control' and capitalise from every third party program that gets installed on their phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 29, 2008)

Crispy said:


> not particularly shocked, but it's still shit. OSX has a fantastic development environment, with access to really powerful libraries, with no restrictions on distribution. The iphone is being locked right down in comparison.



Perhaps Apple might see sense if the jailbreak apps turn out more popular than the officially sanctioned ones...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 29, 2008)

editor said:


> I'm not shocked in the slightest, but it _is_ bullshit.
> 
> I can't understand how you can defend such a closed proprietary system or why you think it's acceptable for Apple to 'control' and capitalise from every third party program that gets installed on their phone.



I'm not defending or saying its acceptable just that it's not a surprise and is understandable. It is shit, but not bullshit, just business strategy.


----------



## editor (Feb 29, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Perhaps Apple might see sense if the jailbreak apps turn out more popular than the officially sanctioned ones...


Given their litigious past, I'd say they'd be far more likely to prosecute and bust asses.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 29, 2008)

I'm just checking http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf to see if it's specifically prohibitted.

oop, there it is



> (c) Except as and only to the extent permitted by applicable law, or by licensing terms governing use of open-sourced components included with the iPhone Software or iPhone
> Software Updates, you may not copy, decompile, reverse engineer, disassemble, attempt to derive the source code of, decrypt, *modify*, or create derivative works of the iPhone
> Software, iPhone Software Updates, or any part thereof. Any attempt to do so is a violation of the rights of Apple and its licensors of the iPhone Software and iPhone Software
> Updates. If you breach this restriction, you may be subject to prosecution and damages


----------



## Sunray (Mar 1, 2008)

Crispy said:


> I'm just checking http://images.apple.com/legal/sla/docs/iphone.pdf to see if it's specifically prohibitted.
> 
> oop, there it is



I've read that clause many times elsewhere and I still think that nobody has ever really stood up to a company to fight out that in court.  I think it makes for some really unfair contracts.

I can smash up a iPhone with a hammer and that therefore would break the license, as I modified it.  If Apple still consider the software their property, then what did I buy if I bought a iPhone?  If its just the hardware, then can I charge Apple for running their software on my hardware?  If they then say I can't charge them, can I sue them for trespass?


----------



## pk (Mar 1, 2008)

editor said:


> I'm not shocked in the slightest, but it _is_ bullshit.
> 
> I can't understand how you can defend such a closed proprietary system or why you think it's acceptable for Apple to 'control' and capitalise from every third party program that gets installed on their phone.



Microsoft have been doing it for years - and all they could come up with is Vista.... lol

http://www.theblimp.blip.tv/scripts...theblimp.blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf


----------



## dogmatique (Mar 1, 2008)

Anything useful added in the new firmware update 1.1.4?  Can't seem to find anything other than bug fixes and SDK compatibility.

Nothing useful then?  Still no picture messages, multiple delete or mark as read?  Or any of the other basic functions everyone's been asking for?


----------



## jæd (Mar 6, 2008)

Crispy said:


> It'll have to go through apple unless they make fundamental changes to the iphone's security model. At the moment, everything runs as root (yep, the iphone is unix at heart).



Incorrect : Since 1.1.3 its been running user-apps as "mobile". See : http://cre.ations.net/blog/post/iphone-113-firmware-behind-the-scenes-changes


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

So...no comment on yesterday?


----------



## Kanda (Mar 7, 2008)

Yesterday??


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Yesterday??



Oh right, lol I thought the SDK thing was yesterday...


----------



## jæd (Mar 7, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh right, lol I thought the SDK thing was yesterday...



Everyone's still downloading the SDK...  From here its good, in terms of SDK's, and its much better than anything (for mobiles) in the past...

I'd be interested in how its "not a smart-phone" now.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

jæd said:


> I'd be interested in how its "not a smart-phone" now.



I guess the goalposts will be moved and the boring argument will just go on...


----------



## jæd (Mar 7, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I guess the goalposts will be moved and the boring argument will just go on...



I suspect it will be along the lines "it hasn't got copy+paste, and that's what smart-phone users do all day". Pity the nay-sayers are too short-sighted that they haven't worked why there isn't copy+paste...

But hey, now you can design your own replacement apps, with as much copy+paste as you want. Just come up with a workable system first...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

jæd said:


> I suspect it will be along the lines "it hasn't got copy+paste, and that's what smart-phone users do all day". Pity the nay-sayers are too short-sighted that they haven't worked why there isn't copy+paste...
> 
> But hey, now you can design your own replacement apps, with as much copy+paste as you want. Just come up with a workable system first...



That C+P thing is a red herring if you ask me...


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That C+P thing is a red herring if you ask me...


What does that mean?



jæd said:


> Pity the nay-sayers are too short-sighted that they haven't worked why there isn't copy+paste...


Oh, do tell.

And why is it "short sighted" to require a basic - and essential - function? I use copy/cut and paste every day on my phone. It's  more useful than being able to squeeze a photo around the screen.


----------



## jæd (Mar 7, 2008)

Its interesting reading blogs and news articles which seem confused by the charges. The SDK is *free*. Its distribution of apps via iTunes that costs $99. (And its only invite only to US-based devs at the moment). And you pay extra for support and assistance, etc...

That might be because the iPhone developer site was swamped yesterday, though...

The SDK so far looks interesting and seems to be an extension to Xcode (the IDE supplied by Apple), plus a simulator. Running apps being developed on a "real" iPhone appears to be used by download mechanism and is free-of-charge.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> What does that mean?





> A *red herring* is a metaphor for a diversion or distraction from an original objective. The term originates from the tradition whereby young hunting dogs in Britain were trained to follow a scent with the use of a "red" (salted and smoked) herring (see kipper). This pungent fish would be dragged across a trail until the puppy learned to follow the scent.



Source.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Source.


Don't piss about. Explain _your point_ please. Why is cut and paste a "red herring?"


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

jæd said:


> The SDK so far looks interesting and seems to be an extension to Xcode (the IDE supplied by Apple), plus a simulator. Running apps being developed on a "real" iPhone appears to be used by download mechanism and is free-of-charge.


I've only skim-read the release so I could be wrong here, but I am correct in that distribution of third party apps can only go through Apple who take a nice fat 30% cut for themselves?


----------



## jæd (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> And why is it "short sighted" to require a basic - and essential - function? I use copy/cut and paste every day on my phone. It's  more useful than being able to squeeze a photo around the screen.



Go on then. Explain how you would implement it using a multi-touch uy. No peeking at Apple's patent, btw...


----------



## Kanda (Mar 7, 2008)

..and it goes on...


----------



## jæd (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> I've only skim-read the release so I could be wrong here, but I am correct in that distribution of third party apps can only go through Apple who take a nice fat 30% cut for themselves?



Yep, 30 % of the price. And prices start at $0.00...


----------



## jæd (Mar 7, 2008)

Kanda said:


> ..and it goes on...



Yup.

<unsubscribes to go and make a Hello World iphone app >


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

Kanda said:


> ..and it goes on...



Yep.

Anyhoo...interesting piece on the new sdk thingy here. This caught my eye:



> *The big news was the inclusion of support for Exchange, something that could be a game-changer when it comes to corporate IT acceptance of the iPhone.* What do I mean? No more tortured work-arounds trying to figure out how to get company e-mail safely and securely on your iPhone.  Until now, wary IT administrators have been able to fend off users demanding corporate iPhones by citing Gartner Inc. reports that the device doesn't mesh with the enterprise and lacks the safety features that enterprise users require.
> 
> As the iPhone turns one year old this summer, IT administrators may have a much harder time telling users that it no longer meets corporate security policies or doesn't work properly with their Exchange Messaging system. In fact, Microsoft Exchange business users will be able to take full advantage of the iPhone's ActiveSync functions, including push e-mail, push calendars, push contacts and global address lists (GAL


Well that's the smartphone war won for Apple then...


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

jæd said:


> Go on then. Explain how you would implement it using a multi-touch uy. No peeking at Apple's patent, btw...


Don't know why you think I should have the answer to Apple's interface shortcomings, but I can't see why you couldn't just drag your finger across to highlight/copy text and then double tap or something.

And why are people "short sighted" for commenting on a serious omission of  a phone's basic functionality?


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well that's the smartphone war won for Apple then...


So you think the likes of Nokia will just give up then?

LOL.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

From the piece above:



> In a question-and-answer session during the SDK presentation, Apple CEO Steve Jobs was asked if he feels Research In Motion (RIM) might be worried that the iPhone will soon have a lot of the capabilities available on the Blackberry. He demurred; I won't. There should be significant concern in the RIM camp.
> 
> 
> Jobs went on to spell out how well the iPhone is doing, noting that in the first eight months it's been on the market, it has garnered 28% of the smartphone market in the U.S. While RIM is still in the lead with 41%, its main customer base is almost exclusively corporate users -- the very customers Apple is trying to woo with these coming updates. Apple could make up that 13% gap in no time flat.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> So you think the likes of Nokia will just give up then?
> 
> LOL.



No but Palm might as well.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> No but Palm might as well.


Your faith is Apple is touching. Only an idiot would declare "the smartphone war won for Apple" before _they've even released the product._


Kid_Eternity said:


> No but Palm might as well.


Why exactly? The Centro is Sprint's biggest seller.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 7, 2008)

> As the iPhone turns one year old this summer, IT administrators may have a much harder time telling users that it no longer meets corporate security policies or doesn't work properly with their Exchange Messaging system. In fact, Microsoft Exchange business users will be able to take full advantage of the iPhone's ActiveSync functions, including push e-mail, push calendars, push contacts and global address lists (GAL



Huzzah!  

*Happy Boy Dance*


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

Now this is something I can see being big:



> The iPhone won't stop at messaging when it comes to business applications. Sales people and users in the medical profession will also have reasons to head for an Apple Store. At the SDk announcement, one of the apps shown off was a Salesforce.com automation tool that, once it's in place on the iPhone, will allow users to easily see how they're performing against their sales goals. It's ironic that Salesforce, which is known for its Software as a Service (SaaS) and Web apps, still sees the advantage of native applications on the iPhone platform. The Salesforce.com application looked great and might be even better than the full desktop client because users can call customers by just clicking on a name in the database.
> 
> Another app demoed at the Apple event came from Epocrates, the medical software maker, and it might be the sleeper hit of the bunch. I am sure just about every iPod-loving doctor and nurse in every hospital in the U.S. is calling their IT people right now asking when they can get iPhones. From the demo, it looked like Eporactes' third-party app will be a boon for doctors needing quick drug-related information when interacting with patients.
> 
> It's a given that a lot of companies will be porting mobile versions of their software to the iPhone. But so will a lot of smaller, independent developers. Apple has ambitious plans for third-party development on the platform -- even for developers who have been making unofficial jailbroken applications. In fact, they now have even more incentive to port their applications over using the legitimate SDK. Apple is offering a $100 million iFund in conjunction with Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers to help iPhone application startups.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> Your faith is Apple is touching. Only an idiot would declare "the smartphone war won for Apple" before _they've even released the product._



I find your lack of faith distuurbiiing...


----------



## Kanda (Mar 7, 2008)

It's a year old now? Doing pretty well for a first entry into the market, looking more promising as it matures too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> I've only skim-read the release so I could be wrong here, but I am correct in that distribution of third party apps can only go through Apple who take a nice fat 30% cut for themselves?





> Even without the iFund, Apple's development environment offers plenty of incentives. With its new App Store, Apple will handle the hum-drum part of software sales like credit card processing, hosting and marketing, while giving a developer 70% of the take. That is potentially significant if you figure the economies of scale of the platform.
> 
> Let's say you're a small developer and you build an application -- maybe it's something that turns your iPhone into an efax machine -- that sells for $10. If your little app attracts just 1/10 of 1% of the 10 million iPhone owners that Apple expects to have by year's end you've got 10,000 customers. You're bringing in $7 for each sale, or $70,000 -- and that's not even including all those potential iPod touch customers. That's what I call motivation!



.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> Why exactly? The Centro is Sprint's biggest seller.



What's Palms market share [in the US]? Last I remember it wasn't anywhere near 26%. 

You're faith in Palm is far more misguided than any 'faith' I have in the iPhone being a storming success.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's Palms market share [in the US]? Last I remember it wasn't anywhere near 26%. .


_So what?_ It's not all about cheering on the big-budget enormo-corporates as they wade in with their colossal wedge and crush the competition, you know.

Least, it's not for me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

Some one else thinks Apple has done good:



> I have time tonight for only a quick note on Apple's iPhone software developer kit announcement. Overall, it is deeply impressive how many things Apple got right. We still need to see more details on terms and conditions, and a lot will depend on Apple's execution, but here are the problems they appear to have solved:
> 
> --Mobile applications are hard for users to find and install, so Apple is building the applications store into every device. Apps are installed automatically when you buy them, and you can also be notified of upgrades when they're available.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> _So what?_ It's not all about cheering on the big-budget enormo-corporates as they wade in with their colossal wedge and crush the competition, you know.
> 
> Least, it's not for me.



Ah yes the typical Ed tactic, make a point, when some one calls you on it pretend you're making another point...*yawns*.


----------



## skeen (Mar 7, 2008)

There are lots of ways Apple can incorporate C&P. Here's just one of many ideas floating around the net:


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

skeen said:


> There are lots of ways Apple can incorporate C&P. Here's just one of many ideas floating around the net:


That's a very odd video.


----------



## skeen (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> That's a very odd video.


I love you. LOL, yep it's quite strange, but my point still stands.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

skeen said:


> I love you. LOL, yep it's quite strange, but my point still stands.


His mouth looks weirdly superimposed at the beginning and he keeps on gesturing for no reason when he's finished talking.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 7, 2008)

Cos it is superimposed


----------



## skeen (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> His mouth looks weirdly superimposed at the beginning and he keeps on gesturing for no reason when he's finished talking.


Yep, they've edited existing Apple demo footage. Much cheaper than producing the whole thing yourself - someone just wanted to show off their proof of concept.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Cos it is superimposed


Oh, OK. What a strange way to demonstrate something!


----------



## Dask (Mar 7, 2008)

I would of said it's a very clever way of demonstrating something, if your a one man bedroom developer.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

Dask said:


> I would of said it's a very clever way of demonstrating something, if your a one man bedroom developer.


Maybe I'm just missing the_ Mac thing_ here, but that video just looks plain weird. Why do you need to have a bloke in a black rollneck talking to the camera anyway? And it must taken a fair bit of effort to edit the video anyway.

Oh well.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> Maybe I'm just missing the_ Mac thing_ here, but that video just looks plain weird. Why do you need to have a bloke in a black rollneck talking to the camera anyway? And it must taken a fair bit of effort to edit the video anyway.
> 
> Oh well.


 
It's a spoof video!! 

blimey 

The Mac store has  loads of video demos of loads of things. He just ripped it and superimposed his mouth.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

Kanda said:


> It's a spoof video!!
> 
> blimey


But if you're not in on the joke, you don't know what it's spoofing and it's not explained to you in the first place...?


----------



## Kanda (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> But if you're not in on the joke, you don't know what it's spoofing and it's not explained to you in the first place...?


 
Right, I've just got our accounts girl to watch that. She laughed, she got it. She knows fuck all about Macs... you're a bit more tech savvy I think, you write reviews and debate Macs all the time. 

I think you're being grump


----------



## Dask (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> Maybe I'm just missing the_ Mac thing_ here,



What _Mac thing_? It's obviously just a parody of the official apple video.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Right, I've just got our accounts girl to watch that. She laughed, she got it.


Read back through the thread. I wasn't having a go at Apple or being 'grumpy' I just couldn't understand why the video was so weird looking. That's it! Nothing more.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

Dask said:


> What _Mac thing_? It's obviously just a parody of the official apple video.


*bangs head.

Yes, but if you've _never seen an official Apple video _then it makes no sense, especially if it's not explained to you when you point out that it looks weird.

Jeez. What is it with some people today?


----------



## skeen (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> Jeez. What is it with some people today?



It's the interwebs - if your point isn't 100% clear, someone will call you on it.  What else are we to argue about otherwise?


----------



## Dask (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> *bangs head.
> 
> Yes, but if you've _never seen an official Apple video _then it makes no sense, especially if it's not explained to you when you point out that it looks weird.
> 
> Jeez. What is it with some people today?




I bet if it was a palm video you would be gushing all over it.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

skeen said:


> It's the interwebs - if your point isn't 100% clear, someone will call you on it.  What else are we to argue about otherwise?


Well, I've learnt my lesson now. Next time someone points me to an Apple related video where there's a bloke with a weird mouth talking out of sync,  I should go, "Ho ho ho! What a wheeze!" and be in on the thigh-slapping iJoke.

I am now part of the iBorg. 


Dask said:


> I bet if it was a palm video you would be gushing all over it.


Nothing to get excited about cut and paste in the Palm world. Had it for _years_, innit?


----------



## Kanda (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> I am now an iBore.


 
Only having an iJoke with you fella


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

I want to get in with the hip iJoke crowd.

Can someone explain this one to me please?


----------



## Kanda (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> I want to get in with the hip iJoke crowd.


 
I'm afraid you're a bit too slow on the uptake


----------



## Dask (Mar 7, 2008)

editor said:


> Nothing to get excited about cut and paste in the Palm world. Had it for _years_, innit?



very true, but the palm community seem to be lacking in rollneck jumpers.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2008)

Dask said:


> very true, but the palm community seem to be lacking in rollneck jumpers.


True, and they haven't got a dancing Steve Ballmer either.  But they did have the Amazing Vanishing Foleo.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

Dask said:


> very true, but the palm community seem to be lacking in rollneck jumpers.



That's because they sold them all to pre order the Foleo last year.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

Another piece about the mighty iHype which the iBacklash brigade will no doubt koff and splutter over:



> Has Apple found the magic combination by leveraging a hugely popular and familar brand (iPod) with their larger business aspirations?  Over at Salon.com, Farhad is crowning the iPhone for finally living up to all they hype.  How many execs started smiling at the Exchange support announcement?  This road warrior sure as heck did.
> 
> * So who can catch them?  Palm?  Uh, Palm, hello?  Palm/Handspring gave it a good try.  They had the Palm Pilot/Visor that was popular, they had a great design and they had a loyal (to a fault) dev base.  But nothing fed those flames and they’ve slowly died out.*  Rim?  The RIM UI still makes me giggle, it is so 1998.  Windows Mobile?  I still can’t find access to some settings on my phone and it has been a year in the looking.  Symbian?  To Euro to care about America.
> 
> Now the question becomes, how will Apple continue to feed the flame?  At the one year mark we see iPhone 2.0 software.  Logic would seem to say, hold off on 3G iPhone until September/October to ramp up for the holiday season both on new phones and on discounted left overs.  $5 says the 3G iPhone has the same dimensions so that 6 months later, they’ll intro iPhone Slim, perhaps the width of the touch.  Then what?  Clearly Steve’s got a road map and it looks to be a good ride.


----------



## dogmatique (Mar 7, 2008)

Okay, can't bear to wade through the last couple of pages of squabbles to see if this has been mentioned yet (plus I'm a bit pissed), but today the BBC announced that they'd launched iPlayer for the iPhone.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7283702.stm

Front page news on their website, but did they include a link for it's use?  No.  Can you find it on Apple's website?  No.

Another "launch" from the BBC that isn't.  Same as with iPlayer.

Annoying.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2008)

I yeah I saw that, it's streaming only isn't it?


----------



## dogmatique (Mar 8, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I yeah I saw that, it's streaming only isn't it?



Yeah, another great opportunity missed.  If you could dl something to it at work and then watch it on the tube home, it might be useful.  

Streaming video wifi only to a mobile device?  Gah.  Mobile means mobile.


----------



## jæd (Mar 8, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I yeah I saw that, it's streaming only isn't it?



Yep. Completely useless unless you're at a wifi hotspot... I don't think the BBC have got the idea of a *mobile* phone. Still easier and more useful to download programmes by BT and convert them to Ipod format...  @ BBC


----------



## dogmatique (Mar 8, 2008)

As much as I'm frustrated myself, do you have any idea how hard it's been for the beeb to get the iplayer to the point it's at today in relation to ownership of copyright (regardless of them being pushed into bed with MS due to being obliged to include DRM)?

There's a constant battle with rights owners to get anything online - the failure to allow downloads is the old battle of allowing an unfettered copy of the programme to be downloaded, which isn't going to happen.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2008)

No charge for free apps is a good move. I can see a good number of companies releasing their iPhone app for free as a way of advertising their main product.


----------



## jæd (Mar 8, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> As much as I'm frustrated myself, do you have any idea how hard it's been for the beeb to get the iplayer to the point it's at today in relation to ownership of copyright (regardless of them being pushed into bed with MS due to being obliged to include DRM)?
> 
> There's a constant battle with rights owners to get anything online - the failure to allow downloads is the old battle of allowing an unfettered copy of the programme to be downloaded, which isn't going to happen.



Its probably very hard. But that's no excuse for the crap they call "Iplayer". And this "iPhone iPlayer" (  ) is nothing more than checking the iPhone / Touch user-agent and then streaming the appropriate content. It would take me all of a morning to implement, assuming the content was already converted.

Saying that they've launched a specific "iPlayer" for the iPhone is just bollocks...!  It doesn't add any functionality to the iPhone and is completely unsuited to it...! If I was the BBC I would be looking at how Apple is doing movie rentals via iTunes, and talking to them about that. But this assumes the BBC has an iDea..


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 8, 2008)

jæd said:


> the crap they call "Iplayer"



It works fine on my PC


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2008)

This is rather surprising - it appears that the iPhone can't do full multi-tasking:


> Apple's SDK documentation (embedded in the TechCrunch post) points out that the iPhone can only display a single application screen at a time, and urges prospective developers to spend a lot of time designing an application that can handle quick stops and starts. "In other words, users should not feel that leaving your iPhone application and returning to it later is any more difficult than switching among applications on a computer."
> 
> There could be a number of reasons behind this stance, perhaps chief among them that the iPhone might not be able to support the processing demands required by multitasking, but plenty of other phones seem to be able to juggle more than one application at a time. I wonder whether future Apple-developed iPhone applications--like, say an iPhone version of iChat--will be subject to the same restrictions.
> http://www.news.com/8301-13579_3-9888722-37.html


----------



## Dask (Mar 8, 2008)

Looks like you'll soon be able to run any windows app you want on the iphone legitimity.

http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/03/prweb752204.htm

Also Sun are porting Java to the iPhone.

http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/03/07/sun-iphone-java_1.html


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2008)

Dask said:


> Looks like you'll soon be able to run any windows app you want on the iphone legitimity.


I'm not sure what programs would run and I imagine it's going to be as fiddly as fuck trying to run some apps on such a small screen. Still, it could be well handy.

Java is more interesting: that'll open up the iPhone to a ton of mobile apps.


----------



## Dask (Mar 8, 2008)

The potential is there, especially if you believe the hype

"Imagine being able to run most popular PC software anywhere, with full Internet connectivity, without having to lug a notebook PC around"


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2008)

Dask said:


> The potential is there, especially if you believe the hype
> 
> "Imagine being able to run most popular PC software anywhere, with full Internet connectivity, without having to lug a notebook PC around"


Well. I'd be delighted to be able to run Photoshop on the iPhone, but I frankly doubt it's going to have the horsepower for that or be particularly usable. 

Without a SD card slot for transferring images off my camera it wouldn't be much use, and without a replaceable battery it couldn't replace my laptop anyhow (except for short trips).


----------



## Dask (Mar 8, 2008)

Running photoshop might be a bit much, although it might be alright with an older version (pre cs). As far as card readers go, could they not just make an eternal 4-1  reader like you can currently get for usb?

What I really would like to see is a  native ms remote desktop client so that I could login to our servers and perform maintenance related tasks without having to be near a computer. 

I might buy an iphone then, but only with c+p & 3G.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2008)

Dask said:


> Running photoshop might be a bit much, although it might be alright with an older version (pre cs). As far as card readers go, could they not just make an eternal 4-1  reader like you can currently get for usb?
> 
> What I really would like to see is a  native ms remote desktop client so that I could login to our servers and perform maintenance related tasks without having to be near a computer.
> 
> I might buy an iphone then, but only with c+p & 3G.


It would be too much of a pain to lug about a separate card reader IMO. 

I'm sure there'll be remote desktop client software for the iPhone soon seeing as there's loads available for Palm/WM.


----------



## paolo (Mar 8, 2008)

editor said:


> This is rather surprising - it appears that the iPhone can't do full multi-tasking:



Mine does.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Mine does.


You'd better write to CNet and tell them they've got their facts wrong then.


----------



## paolo (Mar 8, 2008)

editor said:


> You'd better write to CNet and tell them they've got their facts wrong then.



Why?


----------



## jæd (Mar 8, 2008)

editor said:


> This is rather surprising - it appears that the iPhone can't do full multi-tasking:




This just indicates Apple doesn't want apps running in the background... If the iPhone couldn't do any multi-tasking then the mail client wouln't be able to receive/send email without being active 24/7, and sms's/calls being received.

Previously, developers have ported programs over that use daemons (ie run in the background)... 

Its just the media seizing some info and trying to make a big point out of it. And then all the developers and everyone else who has a clue having to calm them down... (  @ clueless, non-technical journos who read technical documents and make pointless news-stories out of them)


----------



## jæd (Mar 8, 2008)

Dask said:


> What I really would like to see is a  native ms remote desktop client so that I could login to our servers and perform maintenance related tasks without having to be near a computer.



Porting VNC will probably quite easy, a pukka MS Remote Desktop might take longer. (Although there are open-source implementations are available for porting)


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2008)

jæd said:


> Its just the media seizing some info and trying to make a big point out of it. And then all the developers and everyone else who has a clue having to calm them down... (  @ clueless, non-technical journos who read technical documents and make pointless news-stories out of them)


Could you name some of these "clueless, non-technical journos" please, just so I know to avoid their opinion in the future. Thanks.

Oh, and being able to run an email client in the background is _not_ full multi-tasking. Even my Palm can do that. And play music while I take pictures too, come to think of it - and the Palm is definitely not billed as a multi tasking phone. I dare say the difference might be important to some folks.


----------



## paolo (Mar 8, 2008)

On these kind of matters, the developer community discussions are the best place to find the truth. They make their money from writing software, rather than eye catching news stories, so there is no incentive to spin, and every incentive to discover what is factually accurate.

As a developer myself, I really despair at some articles I read. Some of it is bordering on tech quackery. It's generally ok on the broadsheets, but out there on the web, tech sites like CNET can have some of the worst articles - possibly because they are using people who are doing it as a sideline, and also because I suspect there is relatively little fact checking and editorial control.


----------



## Dask (Mar 8, 2008)

After reading loads of stuff about the SDK I think Apple are really going in the right direction with the iPhone.


----------



## Dask (Mar 8, 2008)

editor said:


> Oh, and being able to run an email client in the background is _not_ full multi-tasking.



Why would you want to have full multi tasking on a phone anyway? What purpose would it serve?


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2008)

Dask said:


> Why would you want to have full multi tasking on a phone anyway? What purpose would it serve?


Well, there's 'nuff Windows Mobile users digging it, although I'm happy with the Palm's way of doing things and - I imagine - the iPhone's too. I guess it depends on how much of a power user you are.


----------



## jæd (Mar 8, 2008)

Dask said:


> After reading loads of stuff about the SDK I think Apple are really going in the right direction with the iPhone.



Yes, writing + testing apps for it is stunningly easy. 



Dask said:


> Why would you want to have full multi tasking on a phone anyway? What purpose would it serve?



All phones can multi-task to differing degrees. Its why people can call you when you're writing a SMS... 



editor said:


> Oh, and being able to run an email client in the background is _not_ full multi-tasking. Even my Palm can do that.



Well, with a mail client there's a whole bunch of io issues you have to deal with. And anything that deals with networking has its own problems (network problems, remote server problems) and then you have to deal with it being mobile. (ie, can't guarantee an optimal network connection).

I'd say that writing a decent mail-client that sends / receives mail in the background. Its tricky to do well from scratch. (And yes. been there, done that for Uni)

Can Palm 5 devices multi-task...? Of course. Its just that its not very common. (And this is probably the main reason Palm phones are very stable)



paolo999 said:


> As a developer myself, I really despair at some articles I read. Some of it is bordering on tech quackery. It's generally ok on the broadsheets, but out there on the web, tech sites like CNET can have some of the worst articles - possibly because they are using people who are doing it as a sideline, and also because I suspect there is relatively little fact checking and editorial control.



Yes, I'd agree with that. Even just a little critical thinking can go a long way. *Why* would Apple not want apps running in the background...? Most probably so that they don't end up with situation Windows Mobile ended up with, with background apps clogging up memory...


----------



## paolo (Mar 8, 2008)

Dask said:


> Why would you want to have full multi tasking on a phone anyway? What purpose would it serve?



Instant messaging client stays live in background, VOIP call stays live in background... etc etc. There's various good reasons.

Just to be clear, the iPhone and the OS can and does multi-task - it's a UNIX variant, the all original 'medium weight' multi-tasking OS. All the standard (i.e. Apple) apps run in this way - e.g. web pages rendering in background. Hacked phones will run things that don't even have a UI, i.e. can only ever be backround apps, such as terminal (i.e. shell) sessions controlled by remoted devices.

With the official SDK/API however, Apple is not letting the 3rd party applications leverage this capability.

It will be interesting to see how this pans out, especially if larger developers working on, say, enterprise integration are hamstrung by the limitation. There could be some significant (i.e. sales related) pressure on Apple to evolve their policy here.

It's happened before - Jobs said it was going to be Web Apps only originally, but the underlying truth was that the OS wasn't in the right shape for an API, and they didn't have an SDK ready. In light of that, it's _possible_, although far from certain, that a future version of the OS will have sufficiently robust resource controls that a runaway background task will not kill the phone, or consume an unexpectedly large amount of (potentially chargeable) data, and that they will open up background processing to 3rd party apps.

We'll see.


----------



## jæd (Mar 8, 2008)

Interestingly, Android may have the same limitation... 

See : http://www.intomobile.com/2007/11/12/did-anyone-notice-that-android-doesnt-support-multitasking.html

But then writing about Android isn't going to be capturing hits in the same way the iPhone does...


----------



## paolo (Mar 8, 2008)

jæd said:


> Interestingly, Android may have the same limitation...
> 
> See : http://www.intomobile.com/2007/11/12/did-anyone-notice-that-android-doesnt-support-multitasking.html
> 
> But then writing about Android isn't going to be capturing hits in the same way the iPhone does...



Quite. 

The video referenced by that article (), from the Android team, explains the state-save model very well. Same model for iPhone 3rd party apps if I've understood it correctly.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2008)

Here's the BBC's Rory Cellan-Jones wishlist for the iPhone. Is there really no search?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2008/03/an_iphone_wishlist_for_steve_j_1.html

I met him a few weeks ago and he was telling me how good the iPhone's camera was - and then went ahead to take a really shit picture of me!  (Mind you, seeing as I only had my Treo with me, mine would have been far worse).


----------



## paolo (Mar 8, 2008)

I'm not sure what you'd search for. There's no document storage.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> I'm not sure what you'd search for. There's no document storage.


Addresses? Emails? Contacts? Songs? Videos?


----------



## paolo (Mar 8, 2008)

hmm. Email would be useful. I don't have a problem with the rest - they're all structured and organized for you.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2008)

Dask said:


> Looks like you'll soon be able to run any windows app you want on the iphone legitimity.
> 
> http://www.prweb.com/releases/2008/03/prweb752204.htm
> 
> ...



MSN Messenger is the first thing that pops to mind, this is big news and will make the iPhone that bit more appealing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2008)

Dask said:


> After reading loads of stuff about the SDK I think Apple are really going in the right direction with the iPhone.



I agree, I wouldn't be surprised if they took the number one spot in the smartphone market in the next two years...


----------



## Sunray (Mar 8, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I agree, I wouldn't be surprised if they took the number one spot in the smartphone market in the next two years...



The keyboard does it no favours.  Ok for light typing, but I'm with the Ed on this.  

Proper keyboard is essential to make it more than a nice toy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2008)

Sunray said:


> The keyboard does it no favours.  Ok for light typing, but I'm with the Ed on this.
> 
> Proper keyboard is essential to make it more than a nice toy.



It's fine imo. Interestingly I was reading this piece the other day by a former Palm Treo user saying he finds the iPhone easier to type on.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's fine imo. Interestingly I was reading this piece the other day by a former Palm Treo user saying he finds the iPhone easier to type on.


He's in a minority if the many reviews and user comments are anything to go by. 

I've tried the iPhone keyboard many times and the lack of tactile feedback makes it uncomfortable and awkward to use for anything other than short notes.

That's not to say that some people won't prefer the iPhone's keyboard - or indeed will particularly care much either way - but hardware keyboards have fairly well recognised usability advantages - that's why I'd imagine you'd prefer to type on a real keyboard on your PC/laptop rather than on a slab of flat glass.

Testers give iPhone virtual keyboard the thumbs down
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/11/14/iphone_vs_blackberry/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 9, 2008)

Here's some one who thinks the next twenty years belong to Apple:



> What we saw today was the spark. The explosion will continue for twenty years. We will all feel the warmth.
> 
> What we saw today was the beginning of two-decades of mobile domination by Apple. What Microsoft and Windows was to the desktop, Apple and Touch will be to mobile.
> 
> ...


----------



## paolo (Mar 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> The keyboard does it no favours.  Ok for light typing, but I'm with the Ed on this.
> 
> Proper keyboard is essential to make it more than a nice toy.



User satisfaction ratings are higher than RIM


----------



## jæd (Mar 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> The keyboard does it no favours.  Ok for light typing, but I'm with the Ed on this.



Why would you want to do anything more than "light typing" on a mobile phone...? It'd be ok in an emergency, but I wouldn't want to tyoe up a report/essay on *any* smart-phone...!


----------



## skeen (Mar 9, 2008)

I'm an iPhone user, switched over from a BlackBerry. I'll admit, the keyboard was a bit awkward for the first couple of weeks, but after you've forgotten you don't have tactile feedback, and you're just used to it, it's easy sailing. I can probably type faster on the iPhone that I could on my BlackBerry (which was pretty fast, by the way).

I agree with Apple's move to limit iPhone apps with regard to background processing - given the complex apps you'll be able to create on the platform, issues will inevitably arise with processes clogging up memory. I assume, though that Apple will license this ability to larger software developers, like AOL for example, for their AIM app.

I think the next version of the software update will feature improvements for the iPhone's native apps, hopefully including search and (the long awaited) copy & paste (which I used immensely on my BlackBerry).


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2008)

jæd said:


> Why would you want to do anything more than "light typing" on a mobile phone...?


Because some people are journalists and need to send in reports from their phone, perhaps? 

Or maybe they're bloggers? Or writers? Or bulletin board users? Or IRC/IM chatters who like to keep in touch? Or people with jobs that involve taking a lot of notes? Or road warriors who have to send a lot of email through the day?

Try using your imagination - I can think of a lot of reasons why people may want to do a lot of typing on a smartphone.



Kid_Eternity said:


> Here's some one who thinks the next twenty years belong to Apple:


"What we saw today was the spark. The explosion will continue for twenty years. *We will all feel the warmth*."
"the cool, the lust, the vision zzzzz"

What a load of nauseous, fan boy nonsense. And why you think his wild guesses about what's going to happen in the nest 20 years are worth posting up is anyone's guess.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 9, 2008)

editor said:


> What a load of nauseous, fan boy nonsense. And why you think his wild guesses about what's going to happen in the nest 20 years are worth posting up is anyone's guess.



So we're not allowed to post speculation now?  

Perhaps you'd like to post up new guide lines on what you find acceptable in terms of Apple related posts?


----------



## jæd (Mar 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Because some people are journalists and need to send in reports from their phone, perhaps?
> 
> Or maybe they're bloggers? Or writers? Or bulletin board users? Or IRC/IM chatters who like to keep in touch? Or people with jobs that involve taking a lot of notes? Or road warriors who have to send a lot of email through the day?
> 
> Try using your imagination - I can think of a lot of reasons why people may want to do a lot of typing on a smartphone.



If I had to do a lot of mobile typing I'd be looking at a Sony TZ, Mac Air, or even that Thinkpad thing for a few weeks ago. Trying to write a well balanced article or a blog post of more than a few paragraphs is a pain on the widdly keyboards + screens of any smart-phone...

As to "bulletin board users", I've posted using an iPhone and its fine. As have few others here... But then, as you've always been one to tell us, personal tastes vary...


----------



## jæd (Mar 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So we're not allowed to post speculation now?
> 
> Perhaps you'd like to post up new guide lines on what you find acceptable in terms of Apple related posts?



Yep, this would be handy. I wonder if it would include "trotting out the same tired points every third page", and "always be terribly serious all times"... 

Oh look. I'd spending my time on the same tired subject instead of something new + interesting...

<unsubscribes>


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So we're not allowed to post speculation now?


You can post what you like, just like I can point out the nauseous fanboyness of the content.  That ludicrous "We will all feel the warmth" comment was totally deserving ridicule


jæd said:


> If I had to do a lot of mobile typing I'd be looking at a Sony TZ, Mac Air, or even that Thinkpad thing for a few weeks ago.


Great thinking! But remind me how you fit one of those into your pocket. Whoops! You've clearly missed the point!

Perhaps you've missed all the recent developments in mobile blogging? It's becoming rather big, you know. Journos are using their phones for both writing reports and filing video clips - even the BBC are bigging it up

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/technology/2008/02/news_from_a_mobile.html


jæd said:


> <unsubscribes>


If only you could keep to your word.


----------



## skeen (Mar 9, 2008)

Seriously, typing on the iPhone is just fine when you get used to it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 9, 2008)

skeen said:


> Seriously, typing on the iPhone is just fine when you get used to it.



I agree, although I think some will always have a mental block with it and find it hard to 'just go with it'.


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2008)

skeen said:


> Seriously, typing on the iPhone is just fine when you get used to it.


Seriously, I've tried it many many times and prefer a real keyboard. Why do you think laptops and desktops have real keys and not virtual keyboards?



			
				kid eternity said:
			
		

> I  agree, although I think some will always have a mental block with it and find it hard to 'just go with it'.


Ah. So it's the _user's_ fault that they find them difficult to use?!!

LOL


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Seriously, I've tried it many many times and prefer a real keyboard. Why do you think laptops and desktops have real keys and not virtual keyboards?
> Ah. So it's the _user's_ fault that they find them difficult to use?!!
> 
> LOL



Different strokes for different folks. Some people respond differently to others when it comes to things like this, *it's called individuality.

*If you can't get on with the iPhone's keyboard but millions of others can it probably isn't for you. Me I find I'm fine with it(as I've said elsewhere so fine that I managed to type on it while under the influence with nearly a 100% success rate). 

When they up the storage and add 3G I'll be seriously tempted by it, they could give away a free Ferrari with it and you probably still wouldn't be. Such is...


----------



## skeen (Mar 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Seriously, I've tried it many many times and prefer a real keyboard. Why do you think laptops and desktops have real keys and not virtual keyboards?



What difference does it make how many times you've tried it? You're not used to it. It wasn't your device. 

It took me a while to get good at typing with my BlackBerry, too.

And re: virtual keyboards - give it time..


----------



## han (Mar 9, 2008)

I had a go on an iPhone yesterday. Love the thing. Definitely the best smartphone I've had a go on yet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 9, 2008)

skeen said:


> And re: virtual keyboards - give it time..



Yep...ah here's the thing I was thinking of:



> David Pogue of _The New York Times_ and Walt Mossberg of _The Wall Street Journal_ both tested the iPhone for two weeks and found learning to use it initially difficult, although eventually usable. Pogue stated use was "frustrating" at first, but *"once you stop stressing about each individual letter and just plow ahead, speed and accuracy pick up considerably."* After five days of use, Mossberg "was able to type on it as quickly and accurately as he could on the Palm Treo he has used for years," and considered the keyboard a "nonissue." Both found that the typo-correcting feature of the iPhone was the key to using the virtual keyboard successfully.[17][38]


----------



## editor (Mar 10, 2008)

Looks like Herr Jobs is saying "Nein!" to Java.

http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/03/10/iphone_jvm_pipe_dream/


----------



## jæd (Mar 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Looks like Herr Jobs is saying "Nein!" to Java.
> 
> http://www.regdeveloper.co.uk/2008/03/10/iphone_jvm_pipe_dream/



<resubscribes > 

This should've been obvious to Sun from the SDK licensing terms from the start. Bit silly of them if they didn't read them, or discuss this with Apple directly...


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Mar 11, 2008)

apple are really not going down the route of being open


though it does look like a nice little sdk


for some reasaon i'm reminded of visual studio (pity it only runs under leopard)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 11, 2008)

jæd said:


> <resubscribes >


----------



## editor (Mar 11, 2008)

jæd said:


> <resubscribes >


Worst. Flounce. Ever.


----------



## paolo (Mar 11, 2008)

jæd said:


> This should've been obvious to Sun from the SDK licensing terms from the start.



Yeah that surprised me too. The clause about no apps by proxy was highlighted in the dev community very quickly.


----------



## jæd (Mar 11, 2008)

Shippou-Chan said:


> apple are really not going down the route of being open



They're going down the route of making $$$



Shippou-Chan said:


> for some reasaon i'm reminded of visual studio (pity it only runs under leopard)



The Iphone runs Leopard Lite, so its untirely understandable that it runs on Leopard. To get it to run on Windows would require a cross-compiler, and that starts making things fiddly...


----------



## jæd (Mar 11, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


>



<unsubscribes> <resubscribes> <unsubscribes> <unsubscribes> <resubscribes>

<gets dizzy and falls over>.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 11, 2008)

jæd said:


> <unsubscribes> <resubscribes> <unsubscribes> <unsubscribes> <resubscribes>
> 
> <gets dizzy and falls over>.



Heh, you know you can't leave it alone. An Apple related thread without Jaed just wouldn't look right.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2008)

*Apple To Use OLED Displays In 3G iPhone’s?*



> Gartner analyst Ken Dulaney claimed in a recent interview with iPod Observer that rumours in Asia suggest Apple are planning to include Organic Light Emitting Diode (OLED) displays in their upcoming 3G iPhone’s.
> 
> Dulaney suggests that Apple have recently ordered another 10 million iPhone’s but this time opting for models capable of operating on the 3G.
> 
> In addition to 3G support, the new devices will also include OLED displays which provide significantly more power efficiency than the current backlit LCD displays used in all of Apple’s current products, as well as being much thinner.


Roll on the 3g iPhone! Was playing with the current one yesterday at a local O2 shop, still impressed with it and can't wait for the shortcomings (lack of 3g, small storage space being the two biggest barriers for me) to be ironed out so I can get one!


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2008)

Shame they don't appear to have plans to iron out the two huge shortcomings of no memory card slot and no removable battery.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 26, 2008)

Why does the memory card slot matter?


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Why does the memory card slot matter?


1. Huge, limitless memory expansion. If you run out of storage on the phone you can carry around extra cards with films, MP3s, work stuff etc etc.
2. Easy/alternative way to transfer stuff on/off the phone
3. Easy/alternative way to swap files with other phone users
4. Easy/alternative way to upload files onto PCs/web cafes etc
5. Ability to transfer pictures off digital camera for emailing
6. Useful for backups etc etc


----------



## jæd (Mar 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Roll on the 3g iPhone! Was playing with the current one yesterday at a local O2 shop, still impressed with it and can't wait for the shortcomings (lack of 3g, small storage space being the two biggest barriers for me) to be ironed out so I can get one!



Unlikely that the 3G phone would be ordered in such quantities without FCC approval. (It is possible though that Apple signed a contract though for 10 million phones over a year, pending FCC approval of a design).

Btw, which phones have > 16 Gb storage space...? 

3G will be nice when it comes along, but won't be a universal panacea since there were times on the weekend when I was being pulled back to GPRS speeds...


----------



## Kanda (Mar 26, 2008)

editor said:


> 1. Huge, limitless memory expansion. If you run out of storage on the phone you can carry around extra cards with films, MP3s, work stuff etc etc.
> 2. Easy/alternative way to transfer stuff on/off the phone
> 3. Easy/alternative way to swap files with other phone users
> 4. Easy/alternative way to upload files onto PCs/web cafes etc
> ...


 
1. 16GB is pretty big for a phone no?
2. Fair comment but iTunes covers what I need transfered
3. Not difficult to get round, what would you want to swap??
4. Fair comment
5. You can email from phone. Shit camera anyway. 
6. iTunes backs your phone up.

I've never used a memory card in any other phone, I've always just plugged it in the USB if I want stuff off it.


----------



## jæd (Mar 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Gartner analyst Ken Dulaney claimed in a recent interview with iPod Observer that rumours in Asia suggest Apple are planning to include Organic Light Emitting Diode (OLED) displays in their upcoming 3G iPhone’s.



OLED would be handy, though I wonder if it would increase the price dramatically... Personally I'd like increased battery life over memory at the moment...


----------



## jæd (Mar 26, 2008)

Kanda said:


> 1. 16GB is pretty big for a phone no?
> 2. Fair comment but iTunes covers what I need transfered
> 3. Not difficult to get round, what would you want to swap??
> 4. Fair comment
> ...



Interestingly enough, the iPhone (and iTouch) will appear as a camera if plugged into a computer. Makes getting photos off it very easy... (It uses the Kodak protocol, so just import into your favorite photo management app)


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2008)

Kanda said:


> 1. 16GB is pretty big for a phone no?
> 2. Fair comment but iTunes covers what I need transfered
> 3. Not difficult to get round, what would you want to swap??
> 4. Fair comment
> ...


1. Since when are you satisfied with restricted storage?! 
2. Not everyone wants to use iTunes. I fucking hate it.
3. Large image files, Word docs, movies, MP3s etc etc
4. Quite a biggie this, especially if you're in a foreign country and want to email a load of pics. Not all web cafes are going to let you plug things in, and they may have ancient machines that won't recognise the phone.
5. You've missed the point. I meant transferring images _off _your DSLR/compact _on_ to your phone for editing/sharing.
6. It's going to cost you a pretty penny if you're abroad. A memory card slot means you can back up your entire phone to a memory card which you can store separately. It's what I do when I'm abroad: if the phone gets nicked/broken I can get a replacement and reinstall everything in a flash.


----------



## tarannau (Mar 26, 2008)

The memory card thing's surely a total non-requirement for most users though. 16gigs plenty of memory and the thing's designed to be regularly charged and synced with a home computer - it's still about the pc/mac as a digital hub..


----------



## Kanda (Mar 26, 2008)

Point 2 renders the iPhone completely pointless for you then


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 26, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Point 2 renders the iPhone completely pointless for you then



And me, I can't stand iTunes either.


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2008)

tarannau said:


> The memory card thing's surely a total non-requirement for most users though. 16gigs plenty of memory and the thing's designed to be regularly charged and synced with a home computer - it's still about the pc/mac as a digital hub..


And if you're not at home?

The iPhone is touted as a big multimedia device, yet you're stuck with 8/16GB memory.  I can't believe people are actually arguing that having a memory card slot isn't a very desirable feature for such a device!

Maybe they keep the memory card slot off as a marketing tool, to give them some sort of selling point for each upgrade.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 26, 2008)

I'm not arguing it may not be desirable, I just don't feel restricted without one. 16GB is quite a bit, what other phone has that much? (n95 is getting close)

iPhone does what it does, is tied to iTunes, it's not to your tastes/requirements.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2008)

jæd said:


> Unlikely that the 3G phone would be ordered in such quantities without FCC approval. (It is possible though that Apple signed a contract though for 10 million phones over a year, pending FCC approval of a design).
> 
> * Btw, which phones have > 16 Gb storage space...?*
> 
> 3G will be nice when it comes along, but won't be a universal panacea since there were times on the weekend when I was being pulled back to GPRS speeds...



That's a fair point about 16gb but one reason for getting the iPhone for me is convergence. Until it gets somewhere near my current iPod (4G 40gb) I'm not bothering. I would love to carry one device instead of two...


----------



## tarannau (Mar 26, 2008)

editor said:


> And if you're not at home?



That's when you've got your macbook air with you in the hotel room.




Honestly I'd guess the lack of a memory card slot won't be a factor with the vast majority of users. You're far from typical when it comes to your requirements - the average Joe will more than have enough storage ont he device.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2008)

editor said:


> Shame they don't appear to have plans to iron out the two huge shortcomings of no memory card slot and no removable battery.



No memory card is no big deal at all on a device with huge amounts of giggage if you ask me.


----------



## jæd (Mar 26, 2008)

tarannau said:


> The memory card thing's surely a total non-requirement for most users though. 16gigs plenty of memory and the thing's designed to be regularly charged and synced with a home computer - *it's still about the pc/mac as a digital hub*..



Yep... Not sure how this point is hard to understand...  Is it likely that Apple will add one in future...? Nope. Apple are about making things simple... If you really need one then don't get an Iphone...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2008)

editor said:


> 1. Since when are you satisfied with restricted storage?!



16gigs is restrictive!?


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I'm not arguing it may not be desirable, I just don't feel restricted without one. 16GB is quite a bit, what other phone has that much? (n95 is getting close)


Quite a few actually, thanks to new SDHC cards offering 16/32GB and above (as they're developed). And, of course, the storage is limitless by swapping cards.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2008)

editor said:


> Quite a few actually, thanks to new SDHC cards offering 16/32GB and above (as they're developed). And, of course, the storage is limitless by swapping cards.



How much is a 16 and 32gb SDHC card these days?


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 16gigs is restrictive!?


It is if you're keen on movies and MP3 files. In fact, weren't you were always banging on about how you wanted to carry all your movies around with you? So what happens when you run out of space on your new iPhone? 

You're lumbered that's what!

With a memory card slot you can carry around a near-infinite amount of films. Much more flexible. It's a major omission from the iPhone, IMO.


----------



## tarannau (Mar 26, 2008)

Not for me. I never understand why it's vital to carry around 27days+ worth of music with you on a device which requires charging every few days. Syncing really ain't that difficult.

Now my 40g ipod's become increasingly unreliable (HD on way out) I'm shocked by how much I've grown to love my Shuffle. Only 1gig, but that's still a box worth's of albums - I've actually been listening to music and rediscovering stuff rather than spending time drilling through and selecting music. It's freedom from the tyranny of navigation!


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How much is a 16 and 32gb SDHC card these days?


Is your browser search not working?

But seeing as you asked, 16GB cards can be picked up for £45 (8GB cards can be bought for as little as £16). 32GB cards are only just coming through but like all memory cards, prices are rapidly falling.


----------



## jæd (Mar 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How much is a 16 and 32gb SDHC card these days?



A 16gb / 32 Gb would also require being supported by the mobile using it... Eventually you'd hit hard limits on card size, though. And while your memory size would be unlimited, your contiguous memory size would be limited to card size...


----------



## Kanda (Mar 26, 2008)

You want a Laptop not a phone Ed


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2008)

Kanda said:


> You want a Laptop not a phone Ed


Not me. I want something small, pocketable and powerful.

Thing is, I don't like watching movies on handheld gadgets, but seeing as that's a major part of the iPhone's appeal, the lack of a card slot would be a real pain.



jæd said:


> A 16gb / 32 Gb would also require being supported by the mobile using it... Eventually you'd hit hard limits on card size, though. And while your memory size would be unlimited, your contiguous memory size would be limited to card size...


Even the 'umble TreoCentro (unofficially) supports 16GB cards, with some punters saying that there's no reason why it can't support bigger capacities up to 32GB. I imagine other SDHC phones would be the same.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2008)

editor said:


> It is if you're keen on movies and MP3 files. In fact, weren't you were always banging on about how you wanted to carry all your movies around with you? *So what happens when you run out of space on your new iPhone? *
> 
> You're lumbered that's what!
> 
> With a memory card slot you can carry around a near-infinite amount of films. Much more flexible. It's a major omission from the iPhone, IMO.



I've already got a solution to that it's called the iPod Classic! If I got an iPhone I'd be prepared to make that painful compromise and not always have my entire collection with me...

Near infinite storage on a memory card!?!?


----------



## jæd (Mar 26, 2008)

editor said:


> Thing is, I don't like watching movies on handheld gadgets, but seeing as that's a major part of the iPhone's appeal, the lack of a card slot would be a real pain.



How...?  Once you've ripped a DVD and reformatted it using any number of one-click-to-iPhone-format apps they are only around 1.5 Gb or so...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2008)

editor said:


> Is your browser search not working?
> 
> But seeing as you asked, 16GB cards can be picked up for £45 (8GB cards can be bought for as little as £16). 32GB cards are only just coming through but like all memory cards, prices are rapidly falling.



According to this we're looking at up to £200 for a 32gb! So basically you want to add between £45 and £200 to the price of the iPhone!


----------



## jæd (Mar 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've already got a solution to that it's called the iPod Classic! If I got an iPhone I'd be prepared to make that painful compromise and not always have my entire collection with me...



If you've got an iPod Classic why not just bring it with you. That way you can watch movies all day (major power drain) and still have a working phone...


----------



## jæd (Mar 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> According to this we're looking at up to £200 for a 32gb! So basically you want to add between £45 and £200 to the price of the iPhone!



That Reg story indicates £ 90 for a 16 Gb card...  Starts making that non-iPhone phone with its own memory slot look pricy...!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2008)

jæd said:


> That Reg story indicates £ 90 for a 16 Gb card...  Starts making that non-iPhone phone with its own memory slot look pricy...!





> SanDisk yesterday dealt its most capacious SD memory card yet: a *32GB SDHC that it expects to see on store shelves in April priced at $350 (£176/€235)*.


Yeah thing is if the iPhone came with an SD card slot the iBacklash Brigade would probably start screaming "OMGZ!? THOS CUNTZ APPLE WANT US TO PAY ANOTHER 200 POUNDS ONTOP OF 270 FOR THE iFONE?!!? WILL THE MADNESS NEVER END?!!!111?!!?"


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 26, 2008)

*Microsoft considering Office functionality for iPhone*


----------



## editor (Mar 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> According to this we're looking at up to £200 for a 32gb! So basically you want to add between £45 and £200 to the price of the iPhone!


Err, no. With a memory card slot users can easily add as much - or as little - memory as they like. No fuss, no bother and it can be as cheap as chips.

So, for example, users could carry around a few films on a 4GB stick for just a tenner or pack a couple of 8GB cards giving them 16Gb extra storage for just £32.  http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=777_6&products_id=102843

I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure that upgrading the memory on an 8GB iPhone is just a teensy weensy bit more expensive, no? Perhaps you could tell me how much it would cost to add an extra 16GB to a 8GB iPhone?


jæd said:


> That Reg story indicates £ 90 for a 16 Gb card...


Here's a crazy thought. Why not do some research before blindly repeating something you read? That story is nearly two months old, and as I've already explained, memory card prices are "rapidly falling."

And here's the proof: you can in fact buy new 16GB cards for less than half that price (£42, in fact) from here: http://www.lowpricememory.co.uk/sdhc-memory-cards.html


Kid_Eternity said:


> Microsoft considering Office functionality for iPhone


And the critical part: "Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll see Word, Excel and PowerPoint on the iPhone any time soon."


----------



## paolo (Mar 27, 2008)

editor said:


> *The blogger surmised* "Now, that doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll see Word, Excel and PowerPoint on the iPhone any time soon."



Edited to remove ambiguity.


----------



## jæd (Mar 27, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> *Microsoft considering Office functionality for iPhone*



Well... If Microsoft don't write a basic Word/Excel Editor then someone will... There's plenty of companies with closed-source open/save Office Document implementations. The only difference is that Microsoft would have the official one, and be able to include Office 2007/8 formats...

Constructing an open/save library from scratch for Office 97 documents, and even slightly higher wouldn't be a big problem, so expect to see one from someone....


----------



## jæd (Mar 27, 2008)

editor said:


> Here's a crazy thought. Why not do some research before blindly repeating something you read? That story is nearly two months old, and as I've already explained, memory card prices are "rapidly falling."



I was asking for clarification. Its why I had the "confused" smilie... Here's another "crazy thought". Don't be so antagonistic all the time. Being nice costs nothing and brings you great returns....


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2008)

jæd said:


> Here's another "crazy thought". Don't be so antagonistic all the time. Being nice costs nothing and brings you great returns....


Perhaps you should start practising what you preach because my response simply reflectes my frustration with your constant little personal digs and inaccuracies.

And if you lazily post up stupid claims, don't complain if they get corrected.

*waits for flounce #464


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 27, 2008)

editor said:


> Err, no. With a memory card slot users can easily add as much - or as little - memory as they like. No fuss, no bother and it can be as cheap as chips.
> 
> So, for example, users could carry around a few films on a 4GB stick for just a tenner or pack a couple of 8GB cards giving them 16Gb extra storage for just £32.  http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=777_6&products_id=102843
> 
> ...



Yet more goal post moving, you were the one talking about those figures gb wise, I was pointing out the cost...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 27, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Edited to remove ambiguity.



The Editor leaves out context when it relates to a product he's critical of? Never!


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yet more goal post moving, you were the one talking about those figures gb wise, I was pointing out the cost...


And how have I 'moved the goalposts' please?

We're discussing the usefulness and price of memory card storage. You claimed that it cost 'up to £200 for a 32gb' and I pointed out that users could get that amount of storage for much, much less, while pointing out the uses and advantages of memory cards. That sure looks bang on topic to me.

But while we're discussing comparative memory pricing, perhaps you could tell me how much it would cost to add an extra 16GB to a 8GB iPhone?


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The Editor leaves out context when it relates to a product he's critical of? Never!


And here we go again. You butting in with yet another petty personal dig. 

It's getting _really_ pathetic now. Can you stop now because it's very disruptive and very childish.

Of course, if you'd bothered to add some context when lazily slapping up nothing else but an unexplained link, there would be no apparent 'confusion.'


----------



## jæd (Mar 27, 2008)

editor said:


> Perhaps you should start practising what you preach because my response simply reflectes my frustration with your constant little personal digs and inaccuracies.



Please post examples of "constant little personal digs and inaccuracies"...? 
And since when was asking for clarification of something an "inaccuracy"...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 27, 2008)

*Apple's iPhone SDK Second Beta Released*

Apple marches towards winning the smart phone war:



> Apple (NSDQ:AAPL) took a quiet step forward this afternoon with the launch of the second beta of its iPhone software development kit (SDK).   Apple sent an email to developers in its program informing them that the second beta was available for download on the company's Developer Connection web site.
> 
> "The second beta version of the iPhone SDK includes Interface Builder, Xcode IDE, Instruments, iPhone simulator, frameworks and samples, compilers, and Shark analysis tool," the site reads.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 27, 2008)

And of course having slain the other warriors in the smartphone arena the iPhone will then go on to lay waste to desktop computing too.



> My generation's concept of what it means to compute is so quaint and firmly rooted in the 20th century. Young people and teens computing 10 or 20 years from now will look back and laugh at people like me (and, most likely, their own parents and grandparents) who sat down at desks and worked on 20-pound boxes.
> 
> 
> The decline of the deskbound PC has been under way for years, but recent events convince me that the transition to desktopless computing is accelerating at a breakneck pace. What's next? I have a feeling that mainstream laptops
> ...


----------



## jæd (Mar 27, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apple marches towards winning the smart phone war:



Cool... No more trial + error when placing widgets...  Should say everyone some time when writing Word for iPhone...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 28, 2008)

The iPhone influence continues, check out the new Blackberry on the right...


----------



## jæd (Mar 28, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The iPhone influence continues, check out the new Blackberry on the right...



That looks really cool... I wonder if they would bring out a 3g one... That would really give an Apple a competitor...


----------



## paolo (Mar 28, 2008)

Not sure if this been mentione before, but there is speculation that Apple might be gearing up for OLED (lower power, higher res) - although might not ship until next year.


----------



## jæd (Mar 28, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Not sure if this been mentione before, but there is speculation that Apple might be gearing up for OLED (lower power, higher res) - although might not ship until next year.



Its unlikely though this year as it might bump up the price by an easy extra $100. (NB: This is speculation, based on reading on the Internet, and not to be considered a 100 % accurate figure)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 28, 2008)

A work mate looks like he's about to buckle and get an iPhone, I keep telling him to hold out a bit longer but his contract is up in a week or so and he's seriously tempted. I reckon he's going to cave!


----------



## pk (Mar 29, 2008)

If you really want iPhone, buy it in France and hack it for any network over here.

Fuck the O2 contract.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 29, 2008)

Why not just buy a cheaper one in the states and hack it?


----------



## pk (Mar 29, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> Why not just buy a cheaper one in the states and hack it?



That would involve going to the States, prohibitively expensive, when you can get to Calais for 2 quid as a foot passenger.


----------



## jæd (Mar 29, 2008)

pk said:


> If you really want iPhone, buy it in France and hack it for any network over here.
> 
> Fuck the O2 contract.



Why...? A French 8Gb iPhone is € 399, or £ 313. A UK 16Gb iPhone is £329... The same phone in the US is £ 248... 

(NB: Officially unlocked French iPhones are only unlocked in France...)


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 29, 2008)

pk said:


> That would involve going to the States, prohibitively expensive, when you can get to Calais for 2 quid as a foot passenger.



You don't have to GO to the states at all. Just buy it on eBay.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2008)

*3G iPhone within 60 days?*

Coming soon apparently...



> We have been hearing rumors and waiting for the arrival of the 3G iPhone, well, since the original iPhone hit the market. Lately however it is looking like we could be seeing a 3G iPhone sooner than later. Last November AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson was quoted as saying “You’ll have it next year,’’ while referring to the 3G iPhone, then a little more recent we had seen AT&T yet again spill the beans about the possible 3G phone, this time the statement was made during a luncheon at this past CTIA. While AT&T seems to know when all the fanboys will be able to grab their dream phone, its always nice when you hear it from another source, especially someone reputable.
> 
> Enter Walt Mossberg, he has recently made a statement regarding the iPhone claiming that “it will be 3G in 60 days.” As usual this is still just a rumor, but we can still keep our hopes up. I think the bigger question is just how many people will sell their current iPhone in an effort to upgrade to a 3G model. Personally while the faster speed would be nice, I am not sure I would run out and drop any more money while my current iPhone works well enough for my needs. And what better way to help further support these statements are the reported images that have recently surfaced showing off just what the 3G iPhone looks like, personally I am calling fake on the image, but we have it below, you can judge for yourself.


And this is the image doing the rounds of what it may look like:


----------



## editor (Apr 6, 2008)

jæd said:


>


If that Apple logo lights up it'll serve as a fantastic mugger magnet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2008)

editor said:


> If that Apple logo lights up it'll serve as a fantastic mugger magnet.



Can't see why the logo lighting up will make much difference in that way tbh, it's already a mugger magnet!


----------



## jæd (Apr 7, 2008)

jæd said:


> Picture



Except he didn't...


----------



## jæd (Apr 7, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Can't see why the logo lighting up will make much difference in that way tbh, it's already a mugger magnet!



Well... (a) its unlikely the apple bit would light up. Bit of a waste of battery power, and there has to be space for a a led. (b) I don't feel its a "mugger magnet". Most of the time it in my pocket, and I don't go around being scared of criminals...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 15, 2008)

Price cut:



> Carphone Warehouse and O2 have announced that they will each knock £100 off the price of Apple's 8GB iPhone tomorrow, as predicted earlier today.
> Already own an iPhone? If you bought it from CW in the last 30 days, the company will give you £100 worth of gift vouchers, it said.
> There's no comparable offer from O2, which also said the special price will be in force only until 1 June. The carrier also said the offer was subject to "stock availability".
> 
> From tomorrow, both firms will sell the iPhone for £169. However, the 16GB handset remains set at £329.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 16, 2008)

Hello??? O2 clearly have their head in the sand when it comes to the iPhone. 

18 month contract at 35 is 630 quid so even at free its still one of the worlds most expensive PDA's if you want to call it a PDA.

I can get a Dell Inspiron 1725 for that.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 16, 2008)

Erm ok..?


----------



## mack (Apr 16, 2008)

I saw they had loads of tacky A4 photocopies in the window of the CW on the way home tonight announcing the price cut.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 21, 2008)

Who'd thunk it, selling something cheaper stimulates sales!



> Last week's price cut on the 8GB iPhone has paid off with multiple reports of stock running dry as UK consumers run to purchase on of the Apple mobiles, and further suggestions Apple may be preparing to abandon its revenue-sharing model for iPhone sales.
> 
> Success has its cost: Mobile Today informs that both O2 and Carphone Warehouse sold out of the model within days of last week's announcement. Apple continues to offer the model through its online store, but at the original £269 price, rather than the £169 its partners are offering the model for.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Apr 21, 2008)

It's good news for all mobile users if Apple's monopolistic business model flops and the price cuts are proof that  the market didn't particularly warm to their big prices and enforced 18 month contracts.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 21, 2008)

Very much so. That price just doesn't cut it in the UK market.

Although no doubt the 3G version will come along soon and bump the price right back up again.


----------



## jæd (Apr 21, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Who'd thunk it, selling something cheaper stimulates sales!



No, really...?  TBH the £100 price drop is only 10 % of the income generated by an iPhone. Would Apple drop the lock-in...? Probably, if the iPhone was successful without it and indicators are that there's a huge demand for the iPhone internationally. The lock-in just gives Apple another revenue stream...

Why the drop in sales of the 8Gb version. Probably because it will be made obsolete in two months time if/when the 3G version comes out...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 21, 2008)

editor said:


> It's good news for all mobile users if Apple's monopolistic business model flops and the price cuts are proof that  the market didn't particularly warm to their big prices and enforced 18 month contracts.



Yep totally agree. Going by that article it looks like Apple are slowly learning to adapt.


----------



## jæd (Apr 21, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep totally agree. Going by that article it looks like Apple are slowly learning to adapt.



Which article...? The 9to5Mac one is a re-hash of MacEinstein:

"We are not known as a rumor site of any accuracy, and we present this rumor and all rumors merely as topics of discussion for our readers."
http://macenstein.com/default/archives/1288

I personally go with the first reply on the MacEinstein site...


----------



## Structaural (Apr 23, 2008)

Little thing here, about how the European market have stung Apple:

http://www.hardmac.com/news/2008-04-23/#8163

Good. They need a kick.
They can't sell it here in Holland as _not one_ operator does Edge. 


I wonder if I can get one of these instead:
http://www.nowisgood.com/?id9=Ad_2008Q2_instinct_accolade_300x250


----------



## jæd (Apr 23, 2008)

Structaural said:


> Little thing here, about how the European market have stung Apple:
> 
> http://www.hardmac.com/news/2008-04-23/#8163
> 
> Good. They need a kick.



Not sure how they've been "kicked". Like any company they try and get away with much as they can... 



Structaural said:


> They can't sell it here in Holland as _not one_ operator does Edge.
> 
> 
> I wonder if I can get one of these instead:
> http://www.nowisgood.com/?id9=Ad_2008Q2_instinct_accolade_300x250



Cool...! Its 2007 again...  Believe it when I see it actually working.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 23, 2008)

Well they've been kicked regarding expected sales, and control of their 'vendors' and I get a feeling they thought the fanboyism of American mac fans would be the same in Europe. I hear the price drop is merely to try and offload all these thousands of Edge phones before they're superceded by the 3g versions.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 23, 2008)

jæd said:


> Cool...! Its 2007 again...  Believe it when I see it actually working.



Is it still not out? jeez


----------



## jæd (Apr 23, 2008)

Structaural said:


> Well they've been kicked regarding expected sales, and control of their 'vendors' and I get a feeling they thought the fanboyism of American mac fans would be the same in Europe. I hear the price drop is merely to try and offload all these thousands of Edge phones before they're superceded by the 3g versions.



I'd think the only market where it actually mattered to get kick-backs from the mobile provider was in the US. Also Europe is a hodge-podge of different legislation, even after the EU so it would be very naive to think they would have the same strategy in each. (And I doubt Apple have naive people working for them...)


----------



## 43mhz (Apr 23, 2008)

Rumours of the 3G version coming to Italy first in the next few weeks. which will be nice..

Italia! Italia!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 23, 2008)

Excellent news, now they have to get the storage up and the price down and I'll be tempted!


----------



## jæd (Apr 23, 2008)

43mhz said:


> Rumours of the 3G version coming to Italy first in the next few weeks. which will be nice..
> 
> Italia! Italia!



It could be handy to try out the new phone on a fully functioning 3g network but I think its unlikely...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 25, 2008)

More on the coming 3G iPhone:



> If you read our news page you already know most of this info because everyone is talking about it. Now of course Apple hasn’t announced this but there are so many signs like this internal memo from UK carrier O2:
> “Due to the highly successful sales of the Apple 8GB iPhone, supply chains have run out of stock and will not be replenishing stock of this product as it has now gone to *end of life*.”​ The 3G iPhone will most likely be announced during the WWDC, June 9th - 13th with sizes of 16GB & 32GB and minor design changes. Rumor lists include true GPS, thinner design and camera in front (video chat).


----------



## jæd (Apr 25, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> More on the coming 3G iPhone:



Doesn't this just signal EOL for the 8gb version...? It says nothing about the 3g one... (And a logical move if the 8gb one had to heavily discounted...)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 25, 2008)

Engadget has the following:



> So we've got it on authority that the second-gen iPhone is already well into testing, and numerous units are floating around in super secret pockets. A trusted source got a chance to check one out, here's what we've heard.
> The first thing people will notice: the 2nd gen iPhone will be about the same size and shape as the first gen.
> It will, of course, have 3G. And proper GPS!
> The most noticeable physical difference is back of the phone is no longer metal -- the whole thing is glossy black, from top to bottom. The volume buttons are now chrome.
> ...


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Apr 27, 2008)

On the Apple related items part of the thread, I have just seen this. 

http://www.collegehumor.com/video:1811646


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 28, 2008)

Is the iPhone merely weeks away from going into production?



> Need more unsubstantiated evidence that the 3G iPhone is near. Good, the Chinese language _Commercial Times_ is quoting sources claiming that Foxconn (aka, Han Hai) -- the maker of the 1st gen iPhone -- is ramping up 3G iPhone assembly by "the end of May" to ship 3 million units in June.
> 
> It's expected to produce some 24-25 million units before the product reaches end of life. If those numbers are true then Apple had better be prepared for a proper global launch without those pesky revenue sharing schemes seen holding back world-wide uptake.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 28, 2008)

Hmm.  

My interest is piqued, as long as its only a bit more than the touch.


----------



## jæd (Apr 28, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is the iPhone merely weeks away from going into production?



Not sure why everyone is posting up stories on this... We've known for a while the 3g iPhone is due sometime in June...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 28, 2008)

jæd said:


> Not sure why everyone is posting up stories on this... We've known for a while the 3g iPhone is due sometime in June...



Further developments, this is a thread about the iPhone ya know?!


----------



## jæd (Apr 28, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Further developments, this is a thread about the iPhone ya know?!



Heh... I didn't mean you specifically. Its just its fairly apparent there will be a 3g iPhone in June. So why do we need constant stories about it in tech websites...?

Next few Engadget headlines:

"Forthcoming 3g iPhone has had plans sent to manufacturer"
"3g iPhones plans looked at by manufacter"
"Manufactuer starts 3g iPhone production"
"First 3g iPhone produced"
"Second iPhone (3g) in production"
"3rd 3g iPhone in production : Production going well says Manufactuer"
"4th 3g iPhone Unit Being Produced : Workers excited"
"First Box of 3G iPhones shipped"

etc, etc, etc.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 28, 2008)

I dunno, beats slagging off Palm for the their latest idiocy I guess...


----------



## editor (Apr 28, 2008)

jæd said:


> Next few Engadget headlines:


Some suspect Engadget to be secretly sponsored by Apple. At least that would explain their _endless_ plugging and promotion of Apple-related non stories.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 28, 2008)

jæd said:


> Not sure why everyone is posting up stories on this... We've known for a while the 3g iPhone is due sometime in June...



True, but I'm only interested if I can get it without having a long contract. 

Some other interesting phones out this year.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 1, 2008)

Incredible: *iPhone is most popular cameraphone on Flickr*



> Not only is the iPhone one helluva Internet browser, it is also a great camera phone.  According to Flickr, the 2 megapixel wonder is so good, it beats out the more feature packed (5 megapixel w/flash) Nokia N95 in the amount of users that upload to Flickr.  After 3G?  It isn't even going to be funny...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 2, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Incredible: *iPhone is most popular cameraphone on Flickr*



But most camera phones are shit anyhow. Nokia insit on not putting a lens cap on most of them so even a 5mp wonder is going to look shit within the week.

Is it really surprising that iphone users who are most likely to be the most tech savy upload more pictures onto the internet?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 2, 2008)

The point is a great deal of criticism have been about its camera and irony of irony its the most popular phone to take pix with on flickr!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 2, 2008)

But is it a surprise that the a phone that has the best web browser and is marketed as having the internet in your pocket has users who upload the most photos?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 2, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> But is it a surprise that the a phone that has the best web browser and is marketed as having the internet in your pocket has users who upload the most photos?



Not too me but I dare say the naysayers are going 'lalala laaa I can't hear you' given how much they love to hate the iPhone...


----------



## editor (May 2, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Not too me but I dare say the naysayers are going 'lalala laaa I can't hear you' given how much they love to hate the iPhone...


Why should anyone care what people use to take pictures? It's the snaps that count, not what was used to take them.


----------



## pk (May 2, 2008)

editor said:


> Why should anyone care what people use to take pictures? It's the snaps that count, not what was used to take them.



But you've a whole forum dedicated to photography kit!??



cameras and camera gear
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=62


----------



## editor (May 2, 2008)

pk said:


> But you've a whole forum dedicated to photography kit!??


And are there any threads solely going on about how popular a camera is, regardless of its quality?


----------



## jæd (May 2, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The point is a great deal of criticism have been about its camera and irony of irony its the most popular phone to take pix with on flickr!



Probably because its very easy to transfer pictures from the phone, with a Mac it takes seconds and about three mouse clicks. Its also the first camera phone I've had that does the same on Ubuntu. Plug an iPhone into a USB slot and Ubuntu will prompt you where to save pics. Nice. (Interestingly the Touch does the same...)

Its not a "Pro" camera by any means, but its nice that is so simple. And the more people able to record experiences and loved ones is better, no...?

_Disclaimer : Other people's opinions may vary. Always do what's best for you. Do not eat this post. _


----------



## editor (May 2, 2008)

jæd said:


> Probably because its very easy to transfer pictures from the phone, with a Mac it takes seconds and about three mouse clicks.


It's pretty easy on most new phones to be honest. 

Some Nokia phones, for example, let you upload photos to Flickr with just a single click, and it's easy to set up most phones so that users are prompted where to save the pics when connected to a PC.

It is ironic though that the average photo taken by consumers is now of worse quality than those taken 50 years ago!


----------



## tarannau (May 2, 2008)

Not really given everything digital seems to lead to worse quality, at least initially.

Take CD or even MP3 vs Vinyl, or the thinness of DAB compared to FM. We seem to have become amore and more obsessed with getting lots of everythign (see everyone boasting about the size of their mp3 collections) but far less worried about the quality.


----------



## editor (May 2, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Take CD or even MP3 vs Vinyl, or the thinness of DAB compared to FM. We seem to have become amore and more obsessed with getting lots of everythign (see everyone boasting about the size of their mp3 collections) but far less worried about the quality.


The funny thing is that despite the fact that people are taking zillions more photos, they may end up with less photos to look at in their old age thanks to changing file standards, hard drives failing, less photos being printed, the lack of negatives and the generally shorter term life of inkjet prints.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 2, 2008)

editor said:


> The funny thing is that despite the fact that people are taking zillions more photos, they may end up with less photos to look at in their old age thanks to changing file standards, hard drives failing, less photos being printed, the lack of negatives and the generally shorter term life of inkjet prints.



Exactly what I've been moaning about since the very first digital cameras appeared


----------



## Crispy (May 2, 2008)

Last year we got our best 300 photos from the last few years printed properly. Think I might make it a regular thing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 2, 2008)

editor said:


> Why should anyone care what people use to take pictures? It's the snaps that count, not what was used to take them.



That's one of the oddest things I've read on here. People like stats, plain and simple.


----------



## editor (May 2, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's one of the oddest things I've read on here. People like stats, plain and simple.


The stats are fine but it's your comment that I found bizarre:

"Not too me but I dare say the naysayers are going 'lalala laaa I can't hear you' given how much they love to hate the iPhone."

Who are you on about? Who here is going to take exception to iPhone's camera being used a lot?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 2, 2008)

editor said:


> The stats are fine but it's your comment that I found bizarre:
> 
> "Not too me but I dare say the naysayers are going 'lalala laaa I can't hear you' given how much they love to hate the iPhone."
> 
> Who are you on about? Who here is going to take exception to iPhone's camera being used a lot?



Comments I've read on the net. Quite simply it shows that people aren't bothered by their anti iPhone propaganda.


----------



## jæd (May 2, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Comments I've read on the net. Quite simply it shows that people aren't bothered by their anti iPhone propaganda.



Well... The graph is a bit misleading. Its pitching two different Nokia phones at the one iPhone. (ie, all of Apple's phone products, (ie 1) up against a tiny selection of Noka's).

And it depends on what you mean by "anti iPhone propaganda". There's a lot of uniformed bollocks posted by people in the comments of blogs like Engadget, etc, but I don't think many people take any notice of that...


----------



## editor (May 2, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Comments I've read on the net. Quite simply it shows that people aren't bothered by their anti iPhone propaganda.


"anti iPhone propaganda."?

WTF?!!! The iPhone enjoyed the most hyperbolic press campaign known to mankind, has received outrageous amounts of press way out of proportion to its actual abilities and has been hyped to the hills and beyond by armies of wildly enthusiastic bloggers and drooling websites like FanBoy Central, Engadget (the biggest gadget site on the web, in case you've forgotten).

Sounds to me like most of this anti-iPhone 'propaganda' campaign exists mainly in your head because the amount of positive press far, far, far outweighs the negative.

Mind you, if you want an example of what a _real _"anti-product" campaign looks like, look no further than the Foleo.


jæd said:


> Well... The graph is a bit misleading. Its pitching two different Nokia phones at the one iPhone. (ie, all of Apple's phone products, (ie 1) up against a tiny selection of Noka's).


Good point. Nokia are the biggest phone manufacturers in the world and outsell Apple by a phenomenal margin.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 6, 2008)

jæd said:


> * And it depends on what you mean by "anti iPhone propaganda". There's a lot of uniformed bollocks posted by people in the comments of blogs like Engadget, etc, but I don't think many people take any notice of that...*



True but there's also a lot of so called 'experts' spouting bullshit that has little bearing to the ordinary user hence the term.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> True but there's also a lot of so called 'experts' spouting bullshit that has little bearing to the ordinary user hence the term.


So first there were your "naysayers" who apparently "loved to hate the iPhone," as part of their "anti iPhone propaganda" and now there's these "so-called 'experts'" who are busy "spouting anti-iPhone "bullshit" that has "little bearing to the ordinary user."

As I said before, as far as I can see the iPhone enjoyed the most hyperbolic press campaign known to mankind, has received outrageous amounts of press way out of proportion to its actual abilities and has been hyped to the hills and beyond by armies of wildly enthusiastic bloggers.

But seeing as you keep going on and on about this "anti iPhone propaganda,"  could you furnish me with some examples please?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 6, 2008)

*T-Mobile confirms 3G iPhone, says Austrian report*




> T-Mobile today confirmed that Apple Inc. will soon announce a 3G-based iPhone and said that its Austrian customers would be among the first to get their hands on the new smart phone, according to a newspaper report from Vienna.
> 
> On Monday, _der Standard_, an Austrian national daily, posted a story to its German-language Web site quoting T-Mobile saying a 3G iPhone would be available "soon" and that the Austria would be one the first markets to see the new Apple smart phone.
> 
> ...



Not long now...


----------



## Structaural (May 6, 2008)

Hopefully Holland soon too...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 8, 2008)

iPhone no longer available...









> The headline kind of says it all, but if you weren't already sure enough that the first gen iPhone's stint in the UK was coming to a close, O2's pushing to make things crystal clear. It's hard to imagine both companies are going to just stop selling such a high profile device for too long, but clearly we're all still in the dark as to when its 3G replacement will officially be out.


----------



## jæd (May 8, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> iPhone no longer available...



Apple Store is showing them ready to ship in 24 hours. http://store.apple.com/Apple/WebObj...o=MTE2NTQ&node=home/shop_iphone/family/iphone

Good to see Engadget isn't producing any hyped iPhone stories anymore...  @ Engadget.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 12, 2008)

*iPhone Black*








> Appleinsider just outted what could be a huge AT&T webpage mistake.  Apparantly there is a thing called an "iPhone Black".
> 
> Last month Ryan Block of Engadget said they had it on good athority that the new iPhone would be black on the back.
> 
> ...


Curious...wouldn't black be plastic? And isn't Apply trying to 'green up' its line with metal casings and less plastics use?


----------



## editor (May 12, 2008)

Getting the name of a phone slightly wrong is hardly "a huge AT&T webpage mistake."

Talk about hyperbole! And since when is the colour of the arse end of a phone 'news'?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 12, 2008)

The colour, the design, the look are always going to be worthy of comment hence news...


----------



## editor (May 13, 2008)

But it wasn't even that. It was a minor mistake on a web site: _"The reference to 'iPhone Black' was simply a temporary placeholder used over the weekend for a scheduled catalog update"_


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 13, 2008)

The irony being that Apple could release an iphone with nothing changed other than the colour of it's case and there'd still be fanboys queing up round the block to buy it


----------



## jæd (May 13, 2008)

editor said:


> But it wasn't even that. It was a minor mistake on a web site: _"The reference to 'iPhone Black' was simply a temporary placeholder used over the weekend for a scheduled catalog update"_



Good thing they used the world "black" as the place-holder. 



beesonthewhatnow said:


> The irony being that Apple could release an iphone with nothing changed other than the colour of it's case and there'd still be fanboys queing up round the block to buy it



Probably only them, though. There's a huge number of people who use Apple products who aren't fan-boys... And you can get obsessives in any population...


----------



## editor (May 13, 2008)

jæd said:


> Probably only them, though. There's a huge number of people who use Apple products who aren't fan-boys... And you can get obsessives in any population...


Be sure to point and laugh at me if I excitedly start posting up up hot 'news' about the back of a Palm phone being described as a being a different colour according to a tiny coding error on a non-Palm site. Then I'll know I've crossed the line into tragic fanboydom.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 13, 2008)

editor said:


> But it wasn't even that. It was a minor mistake on a web site: _"The reference to 'iPhone Black' was simply a temporary placeholder used over the weekend for a scheduled catalog update"_



I was speaking generally but tbh it's no surprise really. This is how interest works...


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (May 13, 2008)

My next phone will be an iPhone... in 18 months.  Mind you it should be pretty good and cheaper by then... My iTouch experience has shown my the lighT!


----------



## twistedAM (May 13, 2008)

I want one NOW but think I'll wait a month or two after reading this and will continue with the shitty Nokia.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 14, 2008)

*O2: 3G iPhone 'in weeks'*

They might as well announce it with all the bloody confirmations coming out here, there and everywhere!



> O2 boss Matthew Key says the 3G iPhone will be unveiled “in the coming weeks”.
> 
> Key made the comment when speaking to press and analysts after the announcement of the network’s first-quarter results this morning. He’s the Chairman and Chief Exec of O2 owner, Telefónica Europe, and he said his company would be making an announcement with Apple in the “coming weeks”.
> 
> ...


----------



## dogmatique (May 20, 2008)

Anyone else with an iphone noticed that the little "E" in the box next to the signal indicating that you're in an EDGE area now flashes up "G" momentarily every now and then?  Been noticing it since Saturday.

Obviously that doesn't make the phone 3G, but obviously they're preparing for the new phones, supposedly out immediately worldwide from June 9th according to gizmodo today.

My boss has in the last week claimed that his is broken, and needs a new one (I fixed it, much to his annoyance), and is now claiming he's lost it.

I'm just hoping he'll demand one, and let me get one too to assuage his guilt like he did with the first one.

One can but dream.  I have absolutely no idea what kind of deal o2 will offer existing iphone customers, but I don't imagine it'll be good...


----------



## jæd (May 20, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Anyone else with an iphone noticed that the little "E" in the box next to the signal indicating that you're in an EDGE area now flashes up "G" momentarily every now and then?  Been noticing it since Saturday.



The "g" means you are on a GPRS network...


----------



## dogmatique (May 20, 2008)

Well I've been using one for six months and never noticed a G before.  You get an "E" or nothing - which indicates GPRS, not a "G"

From the manual:


----------



## jæd (May 20, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Well I've been using one for six months and never noticed a G before.  You get an "E" or nothing - which indicates GPRS, not a "G"
> 
> From the manual:



Since the iPhone doesn't (currently) have any 3g capability its not going to be anything else...


----------



## dogmatique (May 20, 2008)

Ugh.  You're missing my point entirely. Though no surprise there. I'm not saying the current phone is 3G, I'm saying that since Saturday, the mode indicator has been flashing a "G"  momentarily when you wake the phone up, before switching back to "E" or a blank square. 

My suggestion, seeing as this is a new occurance, is that o2 have been implementing something to do with the forthcoming 3G version.  

When I'm in a GPRS area, it doesn't show a G, it shows the standard blank square, therefore, no, it doesn't indicate GPRS.

It makes no sense for Apple to suddenly start using a G for crappy GPRS when everyone knows they're about to launch a 3G version.


----------



## jæd (May 21, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Ugh.  You're missing my point entirely. Though no surprise there. I'm not saying the current phone is 3G, I'm saying that since Saturday, the mode indicator has been flashing a "G"  momentarily when you wake the phone up, before switching back to "E" or a blank square.
> 
> My suggestion, seeing as this is a new occurance, is that o2 have been implementing something to do with the forthcoming 3G version.
> 
> ...



But current iPhone has no hardware to detect a 3G network, as well as no software to deal with it. And its very unlikely that any detection capability would be included just to demonstrate the presence of 3g. It would be noticed months ago. Plus, the usual symbol on other phones for GPRS is a "g". It follows then that your phone is detecting gprs, not 3g or any kind of preview network...

Additionally, there have been no recent firmware updates. 

On the iPhone, usually a blank square indicates GPRS. However, there are indications that unlocked iPhones display them when used on 3rd party. (It is possible (on an unlocked phone) to change the icon so that a "g" is produced...)

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/960330.html

Perhaps you managed to change a settting somewhere...?


----------



## WWWeed (May 21, 2008)

wow an Iphone blends really well:
http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 21, 2008)

3G is all well and good but what about HSDPA?

Apple are well behind the times on this one


----------



## WWWeed (May 21, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> 3G is all well and good but what about HSDPA?
> 
> Apple are well behind the times on this one



Tell me about it! My Orange M700 is almost two years old now, and it features everything the iphone didnt!

Yeah fair enough its got a shite UI compared to the iphone, but that can be sorted out with some playing around.......

Edit: thinking about it, the new iphone will have to have everything my existing phone has with HSUPA on top (I've been using HSDPA for ages now) before I would even think about getting one......


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 23, 2008)

skyscraper101 said:


> 3G is all well and good but what about HSDPA?
> 
> Apple are well behind the times on this one



It may have:



> Get this. Australian site _ChannelNews_ claims that a "senior executive of Telstra" is the latest 3G iPhone bean spiller. They quote the exec as saying the following:
> 
> "We know what is coming we have seen the new device and it will be available on our network as soon as it is launched in the USA. By Christmas this phone will be capable of 42Mbps which will make it faster than a lot of broadband offerings and the fastest iPhone on any network in the world."
> 
> Interesting. We know that Telstra's Next G HSDPA network has been capable of 14.4Mbps since 2007. At GSMA Mobile World Congress, they even committed to 21Mbps before the end of the year and 42Mbps using HSPA+ (aka, Evolved HSPA, HSPA Evolution) technology in 2009... not Christmas of 2008. Hard to say if this is just industry blow-harding or actual insider info.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 5, 2008)

The iRebellion? 



> The iPhone changed our culture. iPhone owners now expect to have a certain freedom on their mobile devices.
> 
> The challenge for Apple is this: Now that they have given us a sip of that freedom, we will only demand more.
> 
> ...


Smartphone users of the world unite, you have nothing to lose but your data plans!


----------



## Crispy (Jun 5, 2008)

changed our culture confused?


----------



## editor (Jun 5, 2008)

> Since I first bought my iPhone last June, I’ve owned six iPhones mostly because I’ve had to get mine replaced due to some problem or other.


Oh dear. The writer sounds like he should stop being such a fanboy and consider getting a more reliable phone. 


> Despite the problems, I stand behind the iPhone because it gives me one thing no other phone does: a blank slate.


You what? What a load of utter bollocks.


> The iPhone changed our culture.


Good grief. The guy's an idiot!

Mind you, it sure sounds like it changed his life in a "I have to keep on returning to the store to exchange my shitty phone" way.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 5, 2008)

he's got a point about apple needing to open the platform up though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 5, 2008)

Crispy said:


> he's got a point about apple needing to open the platform up though.



Yeah but most of the rest sound lunatic!


----------



## jæd (Jun 5, 2008)

Crispy said:


> he's got a point about apple needing to open the platform up though.



Which they're doing with the whole App Store thing. (Apparently Android will get one as well)


----------



## Crispy (Jun 5, 2008)

That's not open at all - registered developers only, and then apple take a 30% cut. can't imagine we'll see any freeware any time soon eh?


----------



## jæd (Jun 5, 2008)

Crispy said:


> That's not open at all - registered developers only, and then apple take a 30% cut. can't imagine we'll see any freeware any time soon eh?



30 % of $0.00 is...?  Or are we confusing freeware with open-source, again...? Thing is, $100 for access for a (potential) 10,000,000 strong customer base is quite good... There's quite a lot of real investment going in...


----------



## Crispy (Jun 5, 2008)

no, when have I ever done that?

I just checked and you're right, freeware is possible. You still have to pay apple a $99 joining fee if you want to develop for the iphone.

And software still has to be vetted by apple. can't imagine we'll be seeing eg. divx players or console emulators will we.


----------



## jæd (Jun 5, 2008)

Crispy said:


> no, when have I ever done that?
> 
> I just checked and you're right, freeware is possible. You still have to pay apple a $99 joining fee if you want to develop for the iphone.
> 
> And software still has to be vetted by apple. can't imagine we'll be seeing eg. divx players or console emulators will we.



Why not...? And Apple haven't (AFAIK) said how much they will vet apps. Perhaps we'll find out next week...? Until Monday, it's all speculation.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 5, 2008)

Call it a hunch. Care to make it interesting?


----------



## jæd (Jun 5, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Call it a hunch. Care to make it interesting?



It will be interesting on Monday as it is...  More interesting to be actually doing something, then trying to bet on what a tech company does...


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## Crispy (Jun 5, 2008)

what else is the internets for? 

monday will be interesting anyway - I've got my eyes on the rumoured 'me' relaunch of .mac. if they make it free, I'm in


----------



## Sunray (Jun 6, 2008)

Its all about the contract for me.

If I can buy this new 3g iPhone without having to spend two grand on it, then I may consider it.

Anything less and Apple and O2 can fuck off.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 6, 2008)

Yeah I'd tend to agree, I'm a few months away from the end of my 18 month (September) and must say not doing that again! Think I might get the 02 sim only deal next now I have a phone I'm happy with for the near future, £25 for 600mins, 600 text and data and no contract (30 days notice is all they want) sounds pretty cool to me.


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## Sunray (Jun 6, 2008)

I'm on the 15 quid a month, but no matter how hard I try, its never 15.  33 quid this month.  

Sting you on the peak hours calls.  Called my mum for not very long, 7 quid.


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## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

From the Guardian...





> The iPod-maker is due to launch an improved version of its much-vaunted touchscreen mobile phone today. Although the announcement is being closely guarded, sources have confirmed a number of details to the Guardian.
> 
> The handset will offer faster connections to the internet, using the 3G phone networks prevalent across Britain, and will be smaller than the current model.
> 
> ...


So you can get the phone for free - if you sign up to a *£75/month* contract!!!! 

You gotta be fucking joking, Jobsie.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 9, 2008)

Bet you it will be a 18 month contract so total cost for phone £1350.

You had better get lots of txts and minutes for that.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

For £75/month, I'd expect a cleaner to come around the house as well.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2008)

!!!!!!75/m
Tempting at 100 though


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 9, 2008)

£75 a month? 

Fuck that


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 9, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Tempting at 100 though



I can't imagine the data/call tarrif will be any good at that price though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I can't imagine the data/call tarrif will be any good at that price though.



It'll probably be a lower spec machine in terms of storage too.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I can't imagine the data/call tarrif will be any good at that price though.


don't care about calls, I never use my minutes. but as long as they keep the unlimited data I'd be cool with it.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 9, 2008)

Crispy said:


> don't care about calls, I never use my minutes. but as long as they keep the unlimited data I'd be cool with it.



I'll be amazed if they do - they've got to get the money back somewhere, surely?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

First pics?


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> First pics?


For what its worth, Engadget have seriously rubbished those pics.
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/08/the-not-3g-iphone-unboxing-gets-faker-still/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> For what its worth, Engadget have seriously rubbished those pics.
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/08/the-not-3g-iphone-unboxing-gets-faker-still/



Yeah makes sense, we'll probably see a bit more of this 'I have the first pix' followed by 'No you don't!' posts until some actual info comes out!


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah makes sense, we'll probably see a bit more of this 'I have the first pix' followed by 'No you don't!' posts until some actual info comes out!


It's an easy way for no-mark websites to whip up some traffic.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> It's an easy way for no-mark websites to whip up some traffic.



Yep.


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## Sunray (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> For what its worth, Engadget have seriously rubbished those pics.
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/08/the-not-3g-iphone-unboxing-gets-faker-still/



Quite glad, it looks shit.

75 quid a month.  I can understand that to make it free its going to be expensive.  I doubt it will be 75 quid. 

The 8800 Arte is the most expensive phone out there so, its 699 sim free, but 329 with a 35pm 18 month contract.  Thats an 18pm contract 17pm for the phone.  Which I see as OK, its a reasonable deal for the min/text.  You might be able to buy the phone sim free cheaper though which makes the deal less attractive.

Not sure how they come to the 75 quid because the iPhone isn't going to be that expensive, well I would assume its not going to be that expensive.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

You have to admire Apple's PR machine and its media fanboys. According to the BBC, the iPhone has sold around 5m phones since launching in June 2007 while the humble Palm Centro - launched in the US four months later - has sold near enough 2m phones. 

But if you compared the amount of press coverage, you'd think that the iPhone has outsold the Centro by a factor of twenty to one or something - and the same applies to other successful phones by Nokia, LG etc.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7443543.stm


----------



## tarannau (Jun 9, 2008)

Yep, but the Palm's a mature product. Apple sprung up to be one of the major players virtually overnight, leading to a flurry of new activity in the smartphone sector.

Not bad given that it's their first release in telecoms, they only have one model and no track record of delivering in that area. Far from a bad achievement imo - it's hard to see an equally notable market entry in recent times.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Yep, but the Palm's a mature product. Apple sprung up to be one of the major players virtually overnight, leading to a flurry of new activity in the smartphone sector.


Sure. But the press hyperbole is still at fever pitch for the next iPhone, which looks to be adding nothing that hasn't been available on rival phones for years (3G, video calling etc).

The iPhone is a great phone with an excellent interface (although something of a crippled feature set), yet the Apple hype continues to outshine the real innovation seen elsewhere - e.g. haptic feedback, built in GPS, location based services etc.

The BBC is dutifully trotting out speculative articles about today's possible iPhone 2.0 launch, a privilege that seems almost exclusively afforded to Apple products.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2008)

It's a PR machine that other companies would kill for. It's a very carefully orchestrated bit of theatre.


----------



## paolo (Jun 9, 2008)

And it's not quite as simple as being the sole result of PR. A fair bit of it comes from being a very highly thought of brand, and it's product that makes that, not press releases. Apple TV is a bit crap. Noone writes about it. The halo isn't infinitely elastic.


----------



## tarannau (Jun 9, 2008)

Even allowing for Apple's halo in the creative and publishing industries they've an excellent track record of delivering technology solutions that feel accessible to the general market. Take the ipod and itunes' role in opening up the mp3 market/digital music delivery, or the way that Apple helped popularise entry level digital movie editing or DVD creation

It's not about the latest technological features, it's about presenting integrated hardware and software solutions that people will actually use. Sure, people could surf the web on their phone before, it just wasn't nearly as easy or friendly as on the iphone. And it's not as though others in the industry (and beyond) don't tend to follow Apple's lead in design either - take the spread of  translucent highly coloured electronics after the imac, or white headphones after the ipod.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> You have to admire Apple's PR machine and its media fanboys. According to the BBC, the iPhone has sold around 5m phones since launching in June 2007 while the humble Palm Centro - launched in the US four months later - has sold near enough 2m phones.
> 
> But if you compared the amount of press coverage, you'd think that the iPhone has outsold the Centro by a factor of twenty to one or something - and the same applies to other successful phones by Nokia, LG etc.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7443543.stm



Perhaps Palms press department aren't up to scratch? Palm should be on to them saying 'look we've achieved nearly half the sales in less time in the face of an insane amount of coverage for our competitors' etc...


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## g force (Jun 9, 2008)

Certainly should be, but aren't for whatever reason. Poor PR/Comms.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

tarannau said:


> And it's not as though others in the industry (and beyond) don't tend to follow Apple's lead in design either - take the spread of  translucent highly coloured electronics after the imac, or white headphones after the ipod.


They're a good company, but no better or smarter than, say, than Nokia, who have sold infinitely larger amounts of more advanced smartphones with far less press hyperbole.

I'm not sure white coloured cabling or translucent plastic cases are particularly revolutionary. In fact, I'm not even sure that Apple were the first to employ them (e.g. the Handspring Visor Deluxe of 1999 was translucent), although they certainly  popularised it to some consumers. But I'm not knocking Apple's excellent design skills.





Kid_Eternity said:


> Perhaps Palms press department aren't up to scratch? Palm should be on to them saying 'look we've achieved nearly half the sales in less time in the face of an insane amount of coverage for our competitors' etc...


Well, they haven't got the vast budget of Apple's $$$$ computing empire to fall back on, although in the States there's tons of press for Palm products.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2008)

fashion is not a rational business


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Well, they haven't got the vast budget of Apple's $$$$ computing empire to fall back on, although in the States there's tons of press for Palm products.



Fair comment, but it isn't that hard to knock together a press release in response, fire it off then do a few call backs...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

Crispy said:


> fashion is not a rational business



Aint that the truth.


----------



## tarannau (Jun 9, 2008)

Oh come on, what's Palm's press release going to say. Is the angle going to be 'Formerly dominant PIM leader glad to make up some ground. Now the undisputed 3rd choice!'

Bear in mind that Palm may be raising sales with the low-margin Centro, but there's little sight of increasing profit. Palm's continuing to lose money (lost $32 million on decreasing $312 million turnover last year) - discounting to prop up market share's only a short term solution at best. They badly need something new and profit generating.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Oh come on, what's Palm's press release going to say. Is the angle going to be 'Formerly dominant PIM leader glad to make up some ground. Now the undisputed 3rd choice!'
> 
> Bear in mind that Palm may be raising sales with the low-margin Centro, but there's little sight of increasing profit. Palm's continuing to lose money (lost $32 million on decreasing $312 million turnover last year) - discounting to prop up market share's is only a short term solution at best. They badly need something new and profit generating.



'Palm's CEO (or whatever) commenting on the iHype pointed out the success of the Centro'...or 'Palm Centro smashes iPhones in sales'...


----------



## tarannau (Jun 9, 2008)

It's not that much of a success if you have to forego profits in favour of treading water to keep up with the others. 

The Centro's doing well, but it's squeezing the last out of a product in decline. It's not much of a PR angle really.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2008)

Because so many have an iPod, its newsworthy.  Without the iPod factor (still a great product), I don't think it would get much press.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

tarannau said:


> IThe Centro's doing well, but it's squeezing the last out of a product in decline. It's not much of a PR angle really.


You're missing the point, which was about the iPhone contining to garner a wildly disproportionate amount of hype when compared to vastly more successful and genuinely innovative handsets.

I'm not criticising Apple, and I only mentioned the Centro as an example of a phone that has performed extraordinarily well yet received a comparatively microscopic amount of publicity in return. 

As for the press angle, it seems that Palm's idea to pitch itself as the first low price, full function smartphone is something that seems to be inspiring Apple to  follow suit right now.

And as for low profit margins, it's quite common for a company to seek market traction by underpricing profits on products - which seems to be what Apple is set to do with their next phone!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

tarannau said:


> It's not that much of a success if you have to forego profits in favour of treading water to keep up with the others.
> 
> The Centro's doing well, but it's squeezing the last out of a product in decline. It's not much of a PR angle really.



It actually is, it would gain press because an attack from the head of a company on another usually does (see Mozilla attacking Jobs on sneaking in safari). Also, as the Ed rightly points out it establishes Palm as offering a cheaper but as effective alternative (and perhaps re-positions them within the market).


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

The new iPhone is likely to be subsidised too, so they're no different to Palm or any of the other manufacturers offering low margin phones to excite/entice the market.  





> . And crucially, the handset will be offered at lower prices - or even for free. Those who sign up for a contract costing £75 a month will be offered the handset for no extra charge, breaking with Apple's earlier attempts to avoid the large subsidies common in the rest of the industry. Elsewhere, the gadget is likely to be subsidised to lower the price, which could drop from £269 to as little as £100
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jun/09/iphone.apple?gusrc=rss&feed=technologyfull


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

Kick off is 5pm our time right?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2008)

Heh, I like that photoshop 
Gold star to the most ludicrous interpretation of its meaning!


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

RIM and Palm are loving the iPhone too - both have enjoyed soaring sales since Apple joined the smartphone set.

http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/news/2008/06/iphone_smartphones


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2008)

> It's an odd phenomenon because it's not as though Apple invented the smartphone or any of its features – touch screen devices have been around for years and lots of mobile phones already had music capabilities on phones. What Apple did was package it -- and market it -- in a way that made it attractive to mainstream consumers.



There's the point of it all.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> RIM and Palm are loving the iPhone too - both have enjoyed soaring sales since Apple joined the smartphone set.
> 
> http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/news/2008/06/iphone_smartphones



Yep, the networks must do too, all those data tariff add ons they can sell. The rising tide raising all boats and all that...


----------



## tarannau (Jun 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It actually is, it would gain press because an attack from the head of a company on another usually does (see Mozilla attacking Jobs on sneaking in safari). Also, as the Ed rightly points out it establishes Palm as offering a cheaper but as effective alternative (and perhaps re-positions them within the market).




No it wouldn't. Are Palm really going to gain kudos by shouting loudly that they're still being outsold by Apple and their much more expensive phone, despite Apple having no pedigree in this market sector. It's a piss weak angle of attack, particularly when you drop price to become the bargain basement option in the market. 

Palm next OS and phones are crucial. Apple's expanded the market and it's time for them to lay their cards on the table.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

tarannau said:


> No it wouldn't. Are Palm really going to gain kudos by shouting loudly that they're still being outsold by Apple and their much more expensive phone, despite Apple having no pedigree in this market sector.


I'm not sure if Palm are actually being outsold by the iPhone worldwide to be honest, not that I think it's particularly significant.

Palm are a much, much smaller company than Apple with a zillioneth of their marketing clout. If you're going to compare them to anyone, try Nokia or Samsung.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2008)

Here comes the news:

http://www.macrumorslive.com/

or just wait an hour or two for the blogs to write it up


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

The Lord has arrived!





> 10:06 am    Steve has taken the stage.
> 10:05 am    The lights have dimmed.
> 10:04 am    Crowd still settling, music still playing.
> 10:02 am    Apple employees are still working to get the crowd settled.
> ...


And nothing remotely new here:


> The video demonstrated searching contacts, which filters contacts as you type.
> 10:10 am	Starting with enterprise. Exchange support out of the box -- push email / contacts / calendars, auto-discovery, global address book, remote wipe.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2008)

It'll help sell the iphone to business though. Good to see it.

EDIT: Booooring developer stuff. Come on, get to the gadget porn.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> RIM and Palm are loving the iPhone too - both have enjoyed soaring sales since Apple joined the smartphone set.
> 
> http://www.wired.com/gadgets/wireless/news/2008/06/iphone_smartphones



I think that would have happened anyway.  They are more functional with the keyboards.  I couldn't see myself doing real work on such a small touch screen keyboard.  

That is a real case of Apple Hype not equating reality


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

tarannau said:


> No it wouldn't. Are Palm really going to gain kudos by shouting loudly that they're still being outsold by Apple and their much more expensive phone, despite Apple having no pedigree in this market sector. It's a piss weak angle of attack, particularly when you drop price to become the bargain basement option in the market.
> 
> Palm next OS and phones are crucial. Apple's expanded the market and it's time for them to lay their cards on the table.



You work in pr?


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2008)

Crispy said:


> It'll help sell the iphone to business though. Good to see it.
> 
> EDIT: Booooring developer stuff. Come on, get to the gadget porn.



Yeah come on.  Suppose if they did the money shot 1st there'd be no-one left at the end.  I've been to these dev conferences, key note is boring a fuck.


----------



## Lisarocket (Jun 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Yeah come on.  Suppose if they did the money shot 1st there'd be no-one left at the end.  I've been to these dev conferences, key note is boring a fuck.



I went to an Apple keynote at the Paris Mac show a few years back. It was like a religious rally. Everytime the Lord Jobs spake forth the crowd went bonkers 

There weren't any big announcements at that one. No new gadgets. Think it was iLife or something boring like that


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Lisarocket said:


> I went to an Apple keynote at the Paris Mac show a few years back. It was like a religious rally. Everytime the Lord Jobs spake forth the crowd went bonkers


That sounds like my vision of hell, to be honest.

I mean, nowt wrong with  lovin' the product, but the idolisation fanboy stuff gives me the heebeegeebees.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

This is interesting:



> *10:46 am** Both games will be on the App Store at launch for $9.99 each. Next -- Band, written by an independent developer from the UK.*
> 
> 10:44 am Next -- Pangea Software. They have ported 2 games to the iPhone. The first game is Enigmo, which is a physics-based game. Makes advanced use of the touch controls as well as the CPU. The second game is Cro-Mag Rally, which is a 3D racing game -- the iPhone itself is the steering wheel.


I bet Nintendo is watching this with interest. Games a third of the price of the DS' on a phone with graphics that aren't that far off the DS'? Potential to be big competition in the mobile gaming market for them...


----------



## Lisarocket (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> That sounds like my vision of hell, to be honest.
> 
> I mean, nowt wrong with  lovin' the product, but the idolisation fanboy stuff gives me the heebeegeebees.



I knew you'd say something like that Ed 

It was interesting to experience it once...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

If this is done well I can see this being a hit:



> 10:54 am Showing 2 medical-based applications. First, The first is a learning application for remembering the names of parts of the body. They will have dozens of apps available within weeks of the App Store launch. The second medical app is from MIMvista.


----------



## Lisarocket (Jun 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This is interesting:
> 
> I bet Nintendo is watching this with interest. Games a third of the price of the DS' on a phone with graphics that aren't that far off the DS'? Potential to be big competition in the mobile gaming market for them...



I've seen that 3d race game on an iPhone. Looks really good actually. Reckon the iPhone hasn't come into it's own yet with apps like that.

OMG  Just realised i'm in the computer forum discussing a keynote like i know stuff! I learn by osmosis though. Can't help it in my flat


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

Lisarocket said:


> I've seen that 3d race game on an iPhone. Looks really good actually. Reckon the iPhone hasn't come into it's own yet with apps like that.



Yep I can see it being a real competitor to the DS.



> OMG  Just realised i'm in the computer forum discussing a keynote like i know stuff! I learn by osmosis though. Can't help it in my flat



LOL! There's no admission price in terms of techy knowledge to post here, just enthusiasm for the topics at hand.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If this is done well I can see this being a hit:


Palm has long provided professional healthcare tools so it looks like Apple fancies a slice o'the action.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Palm has long provided professional healthcare tools so it looks like Apple fancies a slice o'the action.



Couple of pages on there haven't been updated in between 3 to 8 years! Can't see that being very useful.


----------



## Lisarocket (Jun 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep I can see it being a real competitor to the DS.
> 
> LOL! There's no admission price in terms of techy knowledge to post here, just enthusiasm for the topics at hand.



I'm not even that enthusiastic though. I just know about some of this stuff. LOL Should i leave now 

Back to the apps though. I've seen cracked iPhones and it's amazing what little apps people are making for them. There's a group of peeps that have formed a band using iPhones with different instruments on each phone. Apple should get wise with that and unlock them or at least make more apps for it. That's probably been mentioned on here already though.

I was impressed with the 3d race game because it's a bit wii like because you steer by moving the phone...


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Couple of pages on there haven't been updated in between 3 to 8 years! Can't see that being very useful.


Search a bit more and you'll see that Palm have a very strong following in the medical profession, but let's stay on topic.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

Lisarocket said:


> I'm not even that enthusiastic though. I just know about some of this stuff. LOL Should i leave now



Nah you're fine, stick around for the obligatory 'I can't believe Apple has done this!' or 'OMG this is the best thing since sliced bread!'



> Back to the apps though. I've seen cracked iPhones and it's amazing what little apps people are making for them. There's a group of peeps that have formed a band using iPhones with different instruments on each phone. That's probably been mentioned on here already though.



Yeah once saw this wicked video with four iPhones being used to play a tune!



> I was impressed with the 3d race game because it's a bit wii like because you steer by moving the phone...



Yep although that doesn't work too well on the Wii imo...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Search a bit more and you'll see that Palm have a very strong following in the medical profession, but let's stay on topic.



Yeah just did, was being flippant tbh forgot to add the smileys in my haste.


----------



## Lisarocket (Jun 9, 2008)

Apparently (just heard) iPhone software 2 is being shipped at the beginning of July. It won't work on cracked phones, so Apple seem to be addressing (or controlling ) the need for people to crack phones...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

$99 for the .Mac replacement (Mobile.Me), that's Crispy put off then.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

And finally some iPhone 3G pictures:












Battery life is claimed to be ok:



> 3G has great battery life on iPhone. 300 hours of standby, 2G talk-time now has 10 hours (as opposed to 5), 5 hours of 3G talk-time (most phones only have 3 hour 3G talk time), 5 to 6 hours of high-speed browsing, 7 hours of video, 24 hours of audio.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

Claims to have better 3G d/l speeds than the N95 or Treo 750:


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

But no front facing camera..


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2008)

And no improvement to the camera = booooo.

GPS built in = potential privacy nightmare.

New prices and the 16GB available in white.

The only reason I pay so much attention to the iphone & ipod touch is that Apple really have got the user interface so right. I look forward to the day they do a larger touchscreen device with some relish.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> But no front facing camera..



Neither has the Treo 750, didn't bother me much when I had one. I think I've made about two or three video phone calls ever...



> "iPhone started off at $599 for an 8GB iPhone, which sells for $399 -- we want to make it even more affordable. I'm happy to tell you the 8GB will sell for $199."



$199? So what £150 over here? On what tariff?


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2008)

OK so theyve run out of stock of the old iphone and the new ones isnt available till July 11th? Thats a bit of a cockup, will their share price get hammered in the very short term as a result?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

elbows said:


> OK so theyve run out of stock of the old iphone and the new ones isnt available till July 11th? Thats a bit of a cockup, will their share price get hammered in the very short term as a result?



Pre-order to fill the gap?


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Kinda weird why they're boasting about it being faster than the Treo 750 seeing as that phone is a year and a half old.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Kinda weird why they're boasting about it being faster than the Treo 750 seeing as that phone is a year and a half old.



Yeah I thought that and also why the 750 and not the 755 which is 3g isn't it?


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Compared to the competition, it's getting a leetle bit bulky too:





And there's still no SD/MicroSD slot.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> $199? So what £150 over here? On what tariff?


$199 max price worldwide, according to The Steve. That fits with the rumours and speculation about a £100 iPhone in the UK. Wonder what O2's upgrade policy will be - I'll be fucked off if they don't offer one.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Buddy Bradley said:


> $199 max price worldwide, according to The Steve. That fits with the rumours and speculation about a £100 iPhone in the UK. Wonder what O2's upgrade policy will be - I'll be fucked off if they don't offer one.


If that's still with a 2yr minimum deal and pricey monthly rate it's not going to look so hot because the competition will react fast with price cuts.

As for o2s upgrade policy - I wouldn't get your hopes up too high.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> And there's still no SD/MicroSD slot.



I doubt we'll see that ever on the iPhone, Apple have build the mobile.me structures to sync wirelessly and with huge storage on board why would they bother with swapping sd cards about?


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Considering the ludicrous build up, this has to be one of the biggest anti climaxes in Apple's history.
What a _Meh._


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

Have to agree but then it is a dev conference so wasn't really expecting fireworks...


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Any news on rock bottom mobile basics like cut and paste, MMS and video?


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2008)

Yeah they arent likely to support memory cards as they want data to travel through their apps or networks. This is partly to control what apps end up on the phone, make jailbreaking a tiny more tricky (ok that hasnt worked out too well so far), partly to get a share of revenue for apps sold via their store, and to get people to pay for a mobileme subscription. And its not like they've bothered with memory card readers for their range of computers either.

Id far rather support an open platform, but I cant do it wholeheartedly until the user interface & multitouch of alternatives gets up to apples level and makes using such devices as fun as what apple have managed to pull off.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Any news on rock bottom mobile basics like cut and paste, MMS and video?



None that I can see. I reckon we'll see some of those in  the next line refresh with a possible 32gig iPhone.

Check out the ott advert!


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

elbows said:


> Id far rather support an open platform, but I cant do it wholeheartedly until the user interface & multitouch of alternatives gets up to apples level and makes using such devices as fun as what apple have managed to pull off.


Constantly having to jailbreak an phone again and again just to get the basics doesn't look like a lot of fun either, to be honest.

I see Apple 2.0 has been designed to not work with unlocked phones too, so the cycle will continue all over again.


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Any news on rock bottom mobile basics like cut and paste, MMS and video?



Nope. 3rd party apps could add rudimentary video support if Apple allows such apps to be distributed. Actually Im really looking forward to seeing what stink ensues when we get to find out what sort of Apps Apple arent allowing. Adobe already said they are going to do flash for iphone, which Apple doesnt seem too keen on. It could get ugly, Apple have a track record that suggests their reputation could get even worse than Microsofts one day.


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Constantly having to jailbreak an phone again and again just to get the basics doesn't look like a lot of fun either, to be honest.
> 
> I see Apple 2.0 has been designed to not work with unlocked phones too, so the cycle will continue all over again.



Indeed. What the iphone does, it does very well, but its limitations are certainly clear. For these sorts of reasons Id be quite happy sticking to a different mobile phone and just using an ipod touch, if only the ipod touch had a speaker built in.


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2008)

Meanwhile US citizens are pouring over the details of the AT&T pricing and seem to be calculating that the price hasnt really gone down, indeed perhaps up, as its a 2 year contract. I guess we have to wait till tomorrow at the earliest to establish O2's pricing & terms, although as low as £99 upfront was rumored.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 9, 2008)

Even as a mac user, I find the cult of this 'jesus phone' by mac fanboys cringeworthy


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2008)

Well the original launch and hysteria was certainly cringeworthy, but at least that seems to have died down a bit these days, and it gave us the 'jesus phone' term which I find hilarious.

Plus anything which draws attention to the scary effectiveness of Apple's propaganda, and then exposes the lie to the masses, can only be a good thing in the long term?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 9, 2008)

_2 year_ contract?


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 9, 2008)

I think the most interesting thing, if not exciting, is the software development and applications that are going to be coming soon.  There's no other phone which has had such attention, and therefore such interest in quality application development.

Symbian in it's many years has nothing like what will be available in six months on the iphone.

Remember this is still only a year since first launch, and yet its become one of the market leaders in it's field - and should really be upsetting Rim and Blackberry.

My boss has already emailed me tonight asking when he can ditch his Blackberry.  

So with the hype, the price, and expectation of good implementation, Rim are in for a big challenge.  

Especially as you'll no longer need any extra hardware to get push email, ie no Blackberry server, no licence fees, no extra Blackberry roaming charges as it's already built into your iPhone data contract.

The only thing they need to work out is roaming data charges on networks when you're abroad, but again with Apple, the established market is being pushed into action, and change. 

The more mass market data devices like this that are taken up, the more the mobile networks will have to accomodate; just as the record labels were forced to reluctantly accomodate itunes.

- Before the threat of the iphone, there were very few unlimited data packages around - I can only remember T mobile's excellent web'n walk (or whatever it was called) and 3's largely ignored due to network coverage good deals.

As for the new iPhone, meh - it's now got the infrastructure with 3G and GPS to impliment stuff which Nokia and other leaders have been failing to do - provide workable applications which people will use. Which is much more important than a front facing camera.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 9, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> _2 year_ contract?



2 year contracts are still very common in the States (as was being charged for recieving calls up until recently - though long distance ie out of State you still are), and the push here is for similar, but they've only been able to force 18 month contracts for the last 6 months or so.  

You'd have to be very desparate to sign a two year one in the UK.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Remember this is still only a year since first launch, and yet its become one of the market leaders in it's field - and should really be upsetting Rim and Blackberry.


To be honest, I really don't see that as such a big achievement considering Apple's position as one of the biggest and richest companies on the planet with years of computer/software experience and vast technical and R&D resources. In fact, I would have been amazed if they had got it wrong.

Apart from the interface (which was admittedly superb) there was precious little real innovation in the original iPhone and even this latest version drags miles behind the feature set of many less hyped handsets.

And far from being 'upset', Blackberry have seen sales soar in the past quarter while Apple's market share (and sales) have diminished. 

The iPhone may well end up as the definitive phone, helped along by their deep, deep pockets to tempt developers, but right now something like the Blackberry Bold seems a far superior product.





dogmatique said:


> The more mass market data devices like this that are taken up, the more the mobile networks will have to accomodate; just as the record labels were forced to reluctantly accomodate itunes.


Hold on: Apple were the bad guys in this, not the good ones. They did their damnedest to restrict market choice and force punters into limited, expensive one carrier deals on long contracts. What they tried to foist on the public was _bad_ for punters.

It was only because consumers weren't having it - and the competition from elsewhere - did they start to change their pricing structure.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

Judging by where I work and conversations with people in a similar position, I'd say there's a FUCKTON of people waiting for Activesync, only stumbling block is apps like Blomberg, they have to be ported too. Bloomberg aren't usualy slow either.

Integration with Exchange, no need for a BES server is going to be a MAJOR selling point and if they get it right, really fuck RIM.

Why should a company get a BES when it doesn't need to and keeps employees happy with iPhones.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 9, 2008)

What you say is true, but the *only real killer app a Blackberry is desirable for is it's push email*, business function.

Once you can do that without the awfullness of Windows Mobile, you're onto a winner - which Rim have been - in an open field for years.

Let's compare again once the iPhone's push email has had time to bed in a bit.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Blackberry have a massive user base that completely dwarves Apple's. It's going to take more than a few minor upgrades on a keyboard-less phone to make big corporates start swapping over their mail systems and phones en masse.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> What you say is true, but the *only real killer app a Blackberry is desirable for is it's push email*, business function.
> 
> Once you can do that without the awfullness of Windows Mobile, you're onto a winner - which Rim have been - in an open field for years.


Push email has been available on Palm and other mobile platforms for ages, you know.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_e-mail


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Hold on: Apple were the bad guys in this, not the good ones. They did their damnedest to restrict market choice and force punters into limited, expensive one carrier deals on long contracts. What they tried to foist on the public was _bad_ for punters.
> 
> It was only because consumers weren't having it - and the competition from elsewhere - did they start to change their pricing structure.



Also true - and they seem to be learning their lessons - lower price, multiple suppliers (though not in the UK yet), it's a reciprical process that's still thrashing itself out, and I'd like to see the carriers showing a bit more balls, but it can only be a win for the consumer in the long run.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Blackberry have a massive user base that completely dwarves Apple's. It's going to take more than a few minor upgrades on a keyboard-less phone to make big corporates start swapping over their mail systems and phones en masse.



No, it's not. Well, maybe it's industry related but it's the email push that is the killer, in my industry, if people want iPhones, the company will drop Blackberry and BES. Why have a costly BES server if you can have something that integrates directly with Exchange???


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Push email has been available on Palm and other mobile platforms for ages, you know.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_e-mail



Very much known - but this is a mass market device, so it makes all the difference.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Push email has been available on Palm and other mobile platforms for ages, you know.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Push_e-mail



No-one has EVER asked me (IT Manager) for a Palm though....


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2008)

to be fair to apple, when it comes to developers, it woos them with good APIs and support. there's an excellent 3 part article at arstechnica[/url whcih goes into detail on how they've made development for osx a pleasure - compared to the pain on windows.

I think we will see some exciting apps, but the iphone is still a walled garden and still missing some vital features


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 9, 2008)

Kanda said:


> No, it's not. Well, maybe it's industry related but it's the email push that is the killer, in my industry, if people want iPhones, the company will drop Blackberry and BES. Why have a costly BES server if you can have something that integrates directly with Exchange???



Exactly.  We only use Blackberry because that has been simply the best implimentation of push email, and the devices were way better than anything WinMobile because of the operating system.

Blackberries aren't cheap either, especially with roaming tariffs, so iPhone should be able to compete happily.

If I no longer have to worry about an extra server working properly, I'm also happier.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

I'm happy cos I've been holding off from taking a work Blackberry... I can now justify an(other) iPhone 

We pay approx £250 per handset for Blackberrys with crap contracts. iPhone makes much more economical sense for the business.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 9, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I'm happy cos I've been holding off from taking a work Blackberry... I can now justify an(other) iPhone
> 
> We pay approx £250 per handset for Blackberrys with crap contracts. iPhone makes much more economical sense for the business.



More so if you're a small business without the investment of a BES.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Kanda;7609415]No-one has EVER asked me (IT Manager) for a Palm though....[/quote]Sorry said:


> Very much known - but this is a mass market device, so it makes all the difference.


Just having the facility to do push email doesn't automatically guarantee that companies will all start shifting from the tried and trusted to a different system, no matter how stylish the iPhone is.

In the States, Palm has had an excellent push email facility since 2004 and back then they were major players, but RIM still went on to carve a niche for themselves. And back then the Treos were the hottest phones in town too.

I'm not saying that the iPhone won't eventually gain traction in the corporate market, but this notion of large corporations instantly abandoning their Blackberries en masse is a long way off. The iPhone's push email is new and untested. Big companies aren't going to rush to risk their precious data in the name of a pretty phone.





dogmatique said:


> Also true - and they seem to be learning their lessons - lower price, multiple suppliers (though not in the UK yet), it's a reciprical process that's still thrashing itself out, and I'd like to see the carriers showing a bit more balls, but it can only be a win for the consumer in the long run.


But that'll be in spite of Apple, not because of them. If they'd bludgeoned their restrictive business model on UK consumers we'd all be worse off. Thank fuck they failed miserably - and that's thanks to the  other networks/phone makers.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Kanda said:


> We pay approx £250 per handset for Blackberrys with crap contracts. iPhone makes much more economical sense for the business.


Oy fanboy! You don't even know how much the new iPhone costs yet!


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Oy fanboy! You don't even know how much the new iPhone costs yet!



I'm not a fanboy, I just dislike the alternatives  Costs? My company will pay now, why do I care?


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Sorry, but that's irrelevant really in the grand scheme of things.



Actually, no: that's the most relevant point.  Employee driven demand is extremely important.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Actually, no: that's the most relevant point.  Employee driven demand is extremely important.



Very! It's a perk.

Exchange Activesync untested?? erm.. ok...


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Oy fanboy! You don't even know how much the new iPhone costs yet!



I think he's saying that we're readily open for a better offer, not that he's a fanboy.  Business offers are always generally poor, and the Blackberry has been particularly so as there has been so little competition.

So a popular device which can offer the average user something that they want with the apple brand and OS is going to be a very attractive option.

*If the price is right*, as noted.


----------



## paolo (Jun 9, 2008)

Random brain dump...

A slightly underwhelming launch, because we knew so much of it already.

I'm not sure the mobile me thing is going to be particularly compelling to the majority. Doesn't seem to have any contact syncing relevance to regular web mail users. Photo integration is only with the 'walled garden', not the most popular service (flickr). I'm sure it will be slick, but for many people it's just too proprietary. You have to buy the whole Apple way of doing stuff to get the benefits. And pay extra too. So, meh on that one.

GPS... no word on battery life here, which is notable. I'm guessing that for a quick "where am I" it will be fine, but it won't be practical as turn by turn device, without a car power adaptor to keep it alive. GPS functionality could be one of those catalyst things though. API + GPS + great screen + touch... could make for some very neat apps. I think that one will be a 'grower'.

3G Battery life. Not quite as sorted as I'd hoped. It's 2-3 hours less browsing than the existing iPhone on EDGE (although much better than the N95, which was nearly useless for commute-length browsing. Battery dead for a round trip bus journey in Zone 1.). I could get nearly 7 hours browsing originally... now nearer 4, and it's not quite enough for me. It'll be less on the new one, albeit a much much better browsing experience.

(Side note about the iPhone having 'faster' 3G. In reality that is probably down to the faster rendering of Safari on ARM. Just as on the existing model, the EDGE browsing+rendering was not far short of other manufacturers 3G models. Browser rendering, surprisingly, does need a reasonable bit of horsepower.).

Push email isn't too important for me (or I suspect many other consumer users). 15 minute IMAP polling was the main step up, and we've got that.

No changes to core functionality though... the biggest for me being C&P. I guess we'll keep on waiting for that... been a bit long now though.

So, err, yeah s'okay I guess. I'm not quite frothing to upgrade yet, but maybe when I see the 3G browsing, maybe I'll take the plunge, depending on how the upgrade process/pricing works.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> *If the price is right*, as noted.



The price is VERY wrong for corporate use of Blackberry's at the moment, I'll run the sums tomorrow.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I'm not a fanboy, I just dislike the alternatives  Costs? My company will pay now, why do I care?


Sorry, I thought you were attempting to construct a serious economic argument there for a moment.  


dogmatique said:


> Actually, no: that's the most relevant point.  Employee driven demand is extremely important.


Something tells me that security, pricing and technical support plays a rather bigger part, unless you think that major corporate mail choices should be driven by whatever advertising and PR hype has wooed their staff.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Something tells me that security, pricing and technical support plays a rather bigger part, unless you think that major corporate mail choices should be driven by whatever advertising and PR hype has wooed their staff.



What about the hardware (BES server)/licencing costs and expensive handset prices corporates pay??

You've looked at what they pay? 

As said, I'll try compare costs tomorrow and see how it compares. You also don't get many decent free minutes deals on corporate contracts...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Sorry, I thought you were attempting to construct a serious economic argument there for a moment.



For work, I think I probably could...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> unless you think that major corporate mail choices should be driven by whatever advertising and PR hype has wooed their staff.



As long as security is satisfied, yes, PR hype and user *wants* drive it.

How productive is your corporate gonna be if the users hate the device they are forced to use... 

Sorry, I get your arguments, I take them on board usually but on this one, I work in this enviroment and what they want they generally get (users)


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Something tells me that security, pricing and technical support plays a rather bigger part, unless you think that major corporate mail choices should be driven by whatever advertising and PR hype has wooed their staff.



Well I look after Security, buying and tech support.  Our Blackberry users have been by and large very little problem, bless them, but they don't really like having them, largely due to the 24-7 availability issue after the first exciting flush of use.

The only question has been cost of handsets and tariffs.  If iPhone and o2 (who are our suppliers anyway) can do something better come upgrade / contract negociation time then great, I'll be very popular.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Kanda said:


> How productive is your corporate gonna be if the users hate the device they are forced to use...


How many users *hate* their Blackberries so much that is makes them 'unproductive'? And how many really care that much?

I mean, I find high tech smartphones endlessly fascinating, but the majority of people - both for business and personal use - don't really give that much of a fuck so long as it does the job.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> The only question has been cost of handsets and tariffs.  If iPhone and o2 (who are our suppliers anyway) can do something better come upgrade / contract negociation time then great, I'll be very popular.



This is it for me... 

How much do you pay per handset? Free minutes on a corporate contract? Doubt that.

Being able to buy immediately (fortunately office is very close to Apple store!) and get set up out the box on contracts with free minutes etc is VERY apealing!!


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Something tells me that security, pricing and technical support plays a rather bigger part, unless you think that major corporate mail choices should be driven by whatever advertising and PR hype has wooed their staff.



Doesnt matter what should be the driving forces, corporations are still made up of humans with the power of want. And that will extend to managers and directors, so I think we will see a lot of enterprise takeup, albeit not overnight. I only work for a small ltd company, but I know one of the owners is already sold on the idea of switching everyone to the iphone, which will translate to quite a few sales. 

Plus its a nice easy perk to give employee's that wont cost much more than they're already paying for phones that do nothing for morale.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

editor said:


> How many users *hate* their Blackberries so much that is makes them 'unproductive'? And how many really care that much?
> 
> I mean, I find high tech smartphones endlessly fascinating, but the majority of people - both for business and personal use - don't really give that much of a fuck so long as it does the job.



Most I work with hate the 24x7 factor but have to use them cos of the industry we're in (Bloomberg and market updates etc... ) 

Giving them the incentives of the obviously PR driven side of it, they WOULD like them more. They don't do Hi-Tech, they're ex-LIFFE floor buffoons ffs.. if it's shiny and sexy and desired, of course they'll use it!! Blackberrys aren't tbh...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2008)

elbows said:


> Plus its a nice easy perk to give employee's that wont cost much more than they're already paying for phones that do nothing for morale.



This ^^


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2008)

I fixed my post, but here's that article

http://arstechnica.com/articles/culture/what-microsoft-could-learn-from-apple.ars

goes some way towards explaining why I think we'll see some good applications made for the iphone - apple has a good track record of making development painless and fun


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 9, 2008)

Nothing in the new release that even slightly tempts me to the iPhone. It seems it's just a catch up revision so it can compete with the N95 8GB on the feature set. It's keypad or nothing for me.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 9, 2008)

Kanda said:


> No, it's not. Well, maybe it's industry related but it's the email push that is the killer, in my industry, if people want iPhones, the company will drop Blackberry and BES. Why have a costly BES server if you can have something that integrates directly with Exchange???



Why go with iPhone when other phones have been able to do this for years? I can see why it might happen in a small, cash-rich business with a gadget whore IT Manager () but I can't see large corps switching to the iPhone. It still doesn't do anything that other phones have been able to do for upwards of 3 years. It has no killer app other than Apple's marketing.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2008)

Exchange integration. That's the killer, surely?


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Kanda said:


> . if it's shiny and sexy and desired, of course they'll use it!! Blackberrys aren't tbh...


The Blackberry Bold looks every bit as 'desirable' as an iPhone to my eyes, and I imagine many others. 

In fact, I prefer it by a considerable margin because it's got a proper keyboard FFS.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2008)

Incidentally, shares in RIM *rose* two percent after the launch, while both Apple and Palm slumped around 4 per cent. 

Make of that what you will.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 10, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Exchange integration. That's the killer, surely?



Not really. Everyone else has been doing it for ages. It's like Sony saying their new Vaio has wireless... "er... everyone else's laptops has had for years - thanks though!"

I realise it's not quite on that scale, and I'll also admit that the iPhone was never  even an option for me without Activesync (why didn't they launch it with it?! It's not rocket science!) and therefore does enter a new sector of the market, but it's in no way a killer app. The marketing team's ability to make it seem like one may be though, as I said above.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> I can see why it might happen in a small, cash-rich business with a gadget whore IT Manager ()



You're talking to an IT Manager that has pretty much been bollocked for lack of expenditure. Me outside of work and being a gadget whore is NOT taken to work 

I am going on the demands and wants of my users re: iPhone and I won't implement it unless it makes sense, as always.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> I realise it's not quite on that scale, and I'll also admit that the iPhone was never  even an option for me without Activesync (why didn't they launch it with it?! It's not rocket science!) and therefore does enter a new sector of the market, but it's in no way a killer app. The marketing team's ability to make it seem like one may be though, as I said above.



It's NOT a killer app, but it does make it on a par with Blackberry now no?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> It's NOT a killer app, but it does make it on a par with Blackberry now no?



As a do-all device for a single consumer who wants push email, it makes it far better. As a business device for heavy email use, it's still not even close due to the lack of keypad.

For firms with less than 20 users, it might now be an option. I'd still rather run a BES server though for reasons of reliability.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 10, 2008)

PS: tell you what, Steve Jobs doesn't look like the healthiest human being these days...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> As a business device for heavy email use, it's still not even close due to the lack of keypad.



It has a keypad... 

Your stubby fingers not get on with it? 

BTW Chris: Beers soon, need to talk corporate tech bollocks


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> For firms with less than 20 users, it might now be an option. I'd still rather run a BES server though for reasons of reliability.



20 users = £1200?
BES = Grand?

Erm... 

Scale that up at £300 per 5 users... to enterprise level. iPhone is ready out of the box...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> It has a keypad...
> 
> Your stubby fingers not get on with it?
> 
> BTW Chris: Beers soon, need to talk corporate tech bollocks



Beers are always good.

Re: the keypad, touch screen is still a long way from tactile buttons.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> 20 users = £1200?
> BES = Grand?
> 
> Erm...
> ...



Factor in cost of support and returns and I reckon the BES option still represents the lowest TCO.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2008)

Blackberry operates in a different market that Apple might like to get some share of but needs a real keyboard.  People do real work with Blackberries remember.   Having no actual keyboard is a real issue for anyone once they try to use it in earnest.  

Also remember that all email on RIM devices is sent securely.  India asked RIM for the master key and got told to fuck off.  You'd need to be the US gov to get access.

3G *yawn*

If I can buy it for 200 for the 16Gb version then I might be interested. As I am already an O2 customer, I'm wondering if I can buy a iPhone 3g and put my sim in.  How can they lock it out for a specific contract...

I just wouldn't get the posh texting.

Still no cut and paste.  'We've been listening', with ear plugs in and head buried in the sand.  No 3g Camera (no bad thing IMO, who the fuck wants video calling) but no decent camera.  I've grown accustom to my 3.5MP 1/2 decent picture quality of my K800i.

Well, not interested in a 35 quid a month, 18 month contract or even longer.  Apple and O2 can go fuck themselves again.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Re: the keypad, touch screen is still a long way from tactile buttons.



Down to the individual really. 

Used one of the original Blackberry Pearl things? Text message type buttons? Fucking awful. The full keyboard ones aren't too bad though.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Factor in cost of support and returns and I reckon the BES option still represents the lowest TCO.



wtf?

You can buy an iPhone for £300 (cheaper if you go for 8GB). On a £50/month contract with tons of free minutes. Exchange able out of the box...

Compared to.. 

£250 for a handset, £20/month contract, fuck all free calls corporate Blackberry account... Add the BES costs above.. erm...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2008)

Crispy said:


> PS: tell you what, Steve Jobs doesn't look like the healthiest human being these days...



Yep he hasn't for a while, wonder what's up?


----------



## paolo (Jun 10, 2008)

The iPhone killer app is browsing, for me. Bought it specifically for that. Nothing else gets close at the moment (but they will within 12 months, I'm sure.)


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep he hasn't for a while, wonder what's up?



Well he had cancer some years ago and they didnt exactly rush to announce it at the time:

http://arstechnica.com/journals/app...jobss-cancer-went-unannounced-for-nine-months


----------



## Crispy (Jun 10, 2008)

and he's got religious beliefs that made him turn down the surgery with an excellent track record


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> The iPhone killer app is browsing, for me.


The iPhone is superb for browsing - none better - but for a lot of business users, *email *is the killer app and Blackberry, Palm and even WM all had the original iPhone whipped in that department. 

I haven't seen what v2.0 has to offer yet, but they sure had a lot of catching up to do.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2008)

Crispy said:


> and he's got religious beliefs that made him turn down the surgery with an excellent track record



He does? What type (he's a fucking scientologist aint he??)?


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2008)

Nah, if he was scientoligist he would have a mad intense stare. Instead he has the slightly unnerving calmness about him, a buddhist.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

Apparently the new iPhone still doesn't sync notes. And that is unbelievably shit.


> Note-Syncing: The biggest waste on the iPhone is that the Notes application is completely standalone. It won't sync with anything, which means you're left with all sorts of buckets that don't sync up. When Apple released Leopard they included a Notes feature in many of their productivity apps (like Mail and iCal) that share the exact same styling as Notes on the iPhone, but they don't talk to the iPhone at all. In addition, the new MobileMe (see more on it below), which syncs virtually all of your iPhone's productivity apps, has no love for Notes, despite the fact that this is the app that one would imagine should be easiest to sync.


You still can't perform wireless syncing either.

http://lifehacker.com/395548/iphone-3g-and-mobileme-our-thoughts-and-yours

Oh, and that price cut comes at a, err, price for US users:


> t turns out there's a reason behind the iPhone 3G's dramatic price cut ($199 for the 8GB model)--AT&T has agreed to subsidize the phone, in return for a $10 increase in monthly unlimited data plans. Unlimited 3G data plans for business users will cost $45 a month in addition to a voice plan, presumably because of a higher consumption of data.
> 
> So even though the phone itself is cheaper, it will cost you more in the long run. That said, the faster 3G data service might be well worth it to most people.
> http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9964059-1.html?part=rss&tag=feed&subj=Crave


----------



## Crispy (Jun 10, 2008)

buddhist. he tried to beat the cancer with a special diet.
and of course the monthly cost is greater....
no iphone for crispy just yet then


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Jun 10, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> *If the price is right*, as noted.


How does free sound?

https://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/paymonthly




			
				O2 said:
			
		

> Best of all, the new 8GB iPhone won't cost you a penny on our £45 and £75 tariffs. And it's just £99 on our £35 tariff and new £30 tariff.
> 
> All tariffs include unlimited browsing on your iPhone, unlimited Wi-Fi access, visual voicemail and reduced roaming rates with our International Traveller Service and are subject to a minimum term contract of 18 months.



So that's a new lower tariff (current lowest is £35), and a free killer handset on the higher tariffs, with lots of free minutes/texts and unlimited data transfer.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 10, 2008)

https://www.o2.co.uk/assets/O2HybridNav/1_iPhone/Santana/PayMonthly/PayMonthlyTariffs.html

Actually, that's not completely awful.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

Blimey... 



> Existing iPhone customers can upgrade early to the new 3G iPhone for free*
> 
> To thank you for being an iPhone fan, we're offering you an early upgrade to the brand new version when it launches on 11th July 2008. You won't have to wait until the end of your existing contract, all you'll need to do is agree to a new 18-month minimum term contract.
> 
> ...


----------



## Gromit (Jun 10, 2008)

I'm not too impressed that as an existing user i get the exact same offer as a new user and no trade in for my old phone.

Especially as i have no intention of upgrading to the £45 tarriff at a cost of £180 To save £99 and receive an extra 600 voice minutes (per month) that i won't use.

If I want to see any money back on the £270 I shelled out 7 months ago I need to flog it in a market place where there is a superior product for £99. Nice


----------



## Gromit (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> The iPhone is superb for browsing - none better - but for a lot of business users, *email *is the killer app and Blackberry, Palm and even WM all had the original iPhone whipped in that department.
> 
> I haven't seen what v2.0 has to offer yet, but they sure had a lot of catching up to do.


 
Its all in his keynote speech.

Basically Business users have got an option for enterprises to sync their M$ apps with the iPhone.
An SDK and Aps store will appear to allow developers to sell 3rd party apps to all iPhone customers if Apple gets a 30% cut. No charge for by apple for free aps.
It appears for a home user like me, no syncing unless I want to pay them an annual subscription to their 'mobile me' service. Which is a waste of time as regards my work calendar as i still won't be able to sync with it (they allow blackberries via special authorisation and thats it).


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

You expect to get money back for a phone?? 

I look at it this way: I forked out £300 and then the fucking thing is upgraded a few months later. I *can* sell on the old one but for fuck all $$, but at least if I want the new one I don't have to take out a new 18 month contract in parralell to my current one as they are giving me an upgrade path (at a cost of £59)

Who else does this?? What other phone manufacturer/Network provider will let you upgrade after 4 months? 

I don't think it's a bad deal being an *early adopter*  My g/f gets my old iPhone, I get the new one. Happy boy


----------



## Gromit (Jun 10, 2008)

I've sold lots of phones on in work in the past and failing that flogged em to recycling websites. 
I do have a mate interested to tell the truth in having my iPhone off me if i upgrade, he said as much ages ago but now i'll get sod all for it compared with what i paid.

I know its nice we get to upgrade early but they still get another 18 whole months out of us so they don't exactly lose out by offering early upgrade and they'd have create massive anger if they hadn't.

Still after seeing the new price and the new software I get the feeling that Apple want the iPhone to dominate the smart phone market the same way the iPod has dominated the MP3 player market. Ambitious maybe when this time they start against strong competition.

I liked being one of the few people around with an iPhone. Now they may become as common as muck I'll miss the 'ooh is that an iPhone?' factor.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2008)

Its also going to be available on PAYG, though the details of that aren't announced yet.

That would be cool, because I can have one without having to change my current contract terms or anything.


----------



## paolo (Jun 10, 2008)

Phones not tied to contracts will fetch a premium. I'd guess they will be in the £200 - £300 range on ebay. For an edge phone, it will obviously be quite a bit less, but possibly not less than £100.

It might not be fab, but tech does depreciate like that. Nothing specific to Apple there.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> It's keypad or nothing for me.



Still this for me as well. 

Oh, and cut and paste (why the fuck hasn't this been adressed yet?  )


I'm due to upgrade this month, and there's still nowt out there to beat a Vario III for my needs.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Phones not tied to contracts will fetch a premium. I'd guess they will be in the £200 - £300 range on ebay. For an edge phone, it will obviously be quite a bit less, but possibly not less than £100.


 
The old ones don't have a SIM though so will probably still be tied to O2 and their pricing structure.


----------



## The Groke (Jun 10, 2008)

Marius said:


> or a home user like me, no syncing unless I want to pay them an annual subscription to their 'mobile me' service. Which is a waste of time as regards my work calendar as i still won't be able to sync with it (they allow blackberries via special authorisation and thats it).



Hm - I get "Mobile Me" as part of my .Mac subscription anyway.

If the G2 iPhone will sync with my work exchange email, then I am definitely getting one.


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 10, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Still this for me as well.
> 
> Oh, and cut and paste (why the fuck hasn't this been adressed yet?  )
> 
> ...




That looks a good phone - had never seen one before. I'm with T-Mobile too. 

But I love the idea of an iPhone mainly cos it'll synch well with my MacBook and I don;t really trusy o.p.'s software.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

twisted said:


> T
> But I love the idea of an iPhone mainly cos it'll synch well with my MacBook and I don;t really trusy o.p.'s software.


The Missing Sync is a superb piece of software for synching Macs with a variety of phones.

http://www.markspace.com/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2008)

Must say the tariff and price is a great deal better now but 18 months is a bit too long for me. My mate will be kicking himself, I told him to wait till July (he really wanted an iPhone) but he went for the LG touch screen which he now hates!


----------



## dada (Jun 10, 2008)

instinct defect iphone!
i'm embarrased.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

dada said:


> instinct defect iphone!
> i'm embarrased.


 
Well that's a 3G phone going up against a 2G iPhone... They'll need to update their advert now.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

Just to cut through some of the iPhone 'Jesus Phone' hyperbole, here's the basics that are _still_ missing from the iPhone:
No multimedia messaging 
No video recording.
No voice dialing
No landscape keyboard
No cut and paste
No stereo Bluetooth profile
No user replaceable battery
No memory card slot
No Flash support 
No notes syncing
No tactile feedback for the touch screen


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

I miss none of those


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I miss none of those


If you don't need cut and paste or syncing notes maybe you don't really need a smartphone? 

They're both absolutely essential for everyday phone use for me.

But then I suspect Apple could offer an iPotato with a wire on it, and you'd be the first in the queue.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> If you don't need cut and paste or syncing notes maybe you don't really need a smartphone?
> 
> They're both absolutely essential for everyday phone use for me.


 
I want an iPod and a Phone and Email. That's all. 

I never used to use my iPod cos I wouldn't hear my phone ring 

I don't need all the bells and whistles, some are nice some I don't miss.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2008)

Thinking about it, even missing MMS would be a biggie for me, I use it all the time...


I just don't understand how Apple can have got so many things right, yet have missed out on such basic features.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> But then I suspect Apple could offer an iPotato with a wire on it, and you'd be the first in the queue.


 
I suspect Apple could offer you your dream phone and you'd tell them to fuck off


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Thinking about it, even missing MMS would be a biggie for me, I use it all the time...
> 
> 
> I just don't understand how Apple can have got so many things right, yet have missed out on such basic features.


 
I can view MMS on mine, there's a web app for it can't send obviously.


----------



## paolo (Jun 10, 2008)

Of Ed's list, it's only C&P I want, for doing some forum posts.

Quite tempted by the 'free' upgrade, much as I hate contract lock-ins.


----------



## paolo (Jun 10, 2008)

Just done the maths. Taking 600 mins tarrif, it's now £300 cheaper over the 18 months, vs the original tarrif. Will do some N95 comparisons in a moment.


----------



## paolo (Jun 10, 2008)

For new customers, N95 8gb is 170 cheaper than iPhone 3G over 18 months (but no free WiFi).

(based on O2 600 mins 18 month locked in)


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I suspect Apple could offer you your dream phone and you'd tell them to fuck off


If they fixed the glaring omissions above and slapped on a proper keyboard, I'd be delighted to use an iPhone.


----------



## tarannau (Jun 10, 2008)

Judging from the number of borderline literate Blackberry-sent emails I receive from people, many of whom should know better, a 'proper' keyboard isn't half as essential and useful as some make out. 

Cut and paste still seems the glaring omission for me. I could do without the other features quite easily


----------



## Gromit (Jun 10, 2008)

To be the perfect phone for me I'd like cut n paste, MMS and swapable battery (cause i cane the battery through browsing).

Syncing my calendar with work and home would be fab too but with my security paranoid workplace it won't ever happen. I'm not a business user anyway. I have it for the browser. Mobile net that is really usable and nice to view without having to carry a laptop around. iPod and phone functionality is a bonus.

Unfortunately americans aren't big on txt messaging i'm told. So MMS even less. They don't even care much about picture phones and so as Apple aims itself at primarily what merkins want us outside the US don't get what we want. Poo!

The touch keyboard works fine for me. I honestly don't understand why people have such an issue with it.


----------



## tarannau (Jun 10, 2008)

I was actually pleasantly surprised by the touch keypad. And I say that as someone who adored the Psion series' keyboards. Some of the hardware keyboards, while reassuring to have, are fiddly to the point of unusable quickly.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> Just to cut through some of the iPhone 'Jesus Phone' hyperbole, here's the basics that are _still_ missing from the iPhone:
> 1 No multimedia messaging
> 2 No video recording.
> 3 No voice dialing
> ...




1 No biggie for me, only send about three or four MMS's a year
2 Slightly more annoying but still not a deal breaker, use about the same as MMS
3 Utterly irrelevant to me, never used this ever, never felt the need
4 Odd I'm sure the touch does this...but again still not a deal breaker
5 Hmmm I don't use it often, have done in the past but it's not a deal breaker for me
6 I don't use hands free and really doesn't bother me not have stereo when I did
7 That's a real concern mainly because of losing your phone for x amount of time if it's being replaced
8 Meh, on a device with a min of 8gigs of storage I wouldn't be looking to expand, usb cables work a treat to transfer (the Centro has a card but its fiddly as hell to remove so wont be swapping that in and out often)
9 That's really shit, there's no reason not to support it
10 That's also shit, syncing is must
11 I've used the iPhone and had no problem with the keyboard. Like the Centro to use it well you have to kinda not think about it too much and just type.


----------



## The Groke (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> The Missing Sync is a superb piece of software for synching Macs with a variety of phones.
> 
> http://www.markspace.com/



yup - works very well with my HTC touch and is suitably "Appley" in it's presentation


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 4 Odd I'm sure the touch does this...but again still not a deal breaker


 
iPhone does it, I just tried it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> iPhone does it, I just tried it.



Right, makes sense.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2008)

Marius said:


> The touch keyboard works fine for me. I honestly don't understand why people have such an issue with it.



It seems OK for bashing out a quick txt or two, but for trying to do things like editing a word document or filling in a spreadsheet (things I do all the time on my Vario) it's awful.  And it's in these areas where a lack of cut and paste makes the iphone pointless.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> Just to cut through some of the iPhone 'Jesus Phone' hyperbole, here's the basics that are _still_ missing from the iPhone:
> No multimedia messaging
> No video recording.
> No voice dialing
> ...



All of which sum it up to be a consumer phone and not a business 'smart' phone. 

The MMS thing is a HUGE omission. Its the 1st phone that has a 1/2 decent chance of using MMS successfully and they don't include it.  I can only hope Apple get round to implementing it.
Flash support is just wrong, but I wonder at the CPU's ability to render it without killing the battery.

Landscape keyboard, as you can browse in landscape, going portrait to enter text is going to be a pain.

The rest I have and don't use and don't have and don't miss, all completely irrelevant.

For all of its faults, as a phone slapped into a iPod Touch its a very nice shiny bauble. I want one to replace my old iPod and not so old mobile.  All this talk of the appliations looks past what its best at and thats browsing and music with a bit of video and pictures.  

If you think about what you do a lot of at a PC,  its those in combination.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Landscape keyboard, as you can browse in landscape, going portrait to enter text is going to be a pain.


 
It DOES have a landscape keyboard.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> It DOES have a landscape keyboard.



I await the PAYG deal.


----------



## paolo (Jun 10, 2008)

Sunray - you really get sent alot of MMS? I honestly don't know anyone who uses it. Maybe I am the wrong age group.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Sunray - you really get sent alot of MMS? I honestly don't know anyone who uses it. Maybe I am the wrong age group.



I use it a lot with work, for site surveys and the like


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> The old ones don't have a SIM though so will probably still be tied to O2 and their pricing structure.



They do, they're at the top - stick in a paper-clip and it's tray pops out avec sim.  If you've jailbroken your phone, simply change the sim to any carrier you want.  Easy.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 10, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I use it a lot with work, for site surveys and the like



Seems like they've concentrated on integrating picture sending with email, not MMS.  I suppose this is because MMS isn't very popular in the states, the same as SMS - which too, was poorly implemented at launch.  

I presume sending site survey pics straight to someone's inbox is better than to their phone?  Still - hardly revolutionary, but implimented very smoothly.

Still no real excuse though - especially as MMS would bring much higher revenues than pics via email.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 10, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> I presume sending site survey pics straight to someone's inbox is better than to their phone?



Depends on the circumstances really, but at least with my Vario I have a choice


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

Oh yeah!! 

Didn't know that.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 10, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Depends on the circumstances really, but at least with my Vario I have a choice



True.  Definately an inexplicable ommittence.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> It DOES have a landscape keyboard.


and that works in_ every_ application, like SMS?


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> and that works in every application?


 
All applications that revolve to Landscape yes.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> All applications that revolve to Landscape yes.


But you can't have landscape mode in every application, only the ones that will let you, yes?


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> But you can't have landscape mode in every application, yes?


 
Not all applications rotate to landscape so no. Why would you want to type landscape if the app isn't landscape. 90 degrees out somewhere there.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Not all applications rotate to landscape so no. Why would you want to type landscape if the app isn't landscape. 90 degrees out somewhere there.


So the landscape keyboard is limited to just the apps that support that orientation and is not universally available. Thank you.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> So you the landscape keyboard is limited to just the apps that support that orientation and is no t universally available. Thank you.


 
Geezus.. 

It's available to applications that rotate, as I said. Be fucking pointless for an app that didn't. Are you being deliberately petty for any particular reason?

I'm not even fanboying here, just stating what it can or can't do, you're being ridiculously petty imo


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> It's available to applications that rotate, as I said. Be fucking pointless for an app that didn't. Are you being deliberately petty for any particular reason?


*picks up toys expelled from pram

I was trying to get to the facts of the matter. And now we have.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

Your toys are scattered over every Apple thread, go tidy up please!!


----------



## Dask (Jun 10, 2008)

MMS and Video Recording are possible at the moment with Jail Broken phones, I'm willing to bet money on their being official applications released within weeks of the app store going live.

I reckon someone will produce a better SMS/MMS app than the one apple provide that allows for a landscape keyboard, either that or Apple will do it themselves.

People are missing the point with iPhone 2.0, it's all about software....and the development of software. The tools provided to build iPhone apps put most development environments to shame, including Microsoft's Visual Studio 2008.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 10, 2008)

Dask said:


> People are missing the point with iPhone 2.0, it's all about software....and the development of software. The tools provided to build iPhone apps put most development environments to shame, including Microsoft's Visual Studio 2008.



Exactly.  Thread closed.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> So the landscape keyboard is limited to just the apps that support that orientation and is not universally available. Thank you.



be very pointless having the keyboard rock up sideways if the app doesn't support sideways?  Your not getting any more text on screen are you?  Might well get less sideways with the keyboard up.


----------



## paolo (Jun 10, 2008)

Personally I never use landscape for typing. Portrait is accurate enough for me (and my obviously dainty little fingers  )


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Personally I never use landscape for typing. Portrait is accurate enough for me (and my obviously dainty little fingers  )


 
It's an iPhone killer apparently


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

The BBC has had to counter accusations that their iPhone coverage was disproportionate.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/06/mad_about_mac.html


----------



## Gromit (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> The BBC has had to counter accusations that their iPhone coverage was disproportionate.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/06/mad_about_mac.html


 
and answered the accusations pretty darn well it seems.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2008)

Marius said:


> and answered the accusations pretty darn well it seems.


You think so? I find some of the user comments more spot on to be honest.

Considering the new iPhone is nothing more than an incremental upgrade offering _absolutely nothing_ that hasn't been available for some time on other phones, I'd say the phone has attracted excess coverage, especially considering its relatively poor sales in the UK.






			
				BBC comment said:
			
		

> The problem is that the perception is that Apple are given much more coverage than, say, Nokia, LG or SE despite the fact that they sell many more phones than Apple.
> 
> Apple are an exciting company and I do believe they should get coverage, however a simple article count shows that their coverage - particularly with reference to the iPhone is disproportionate.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 10, 2008)

Considerding its a hot topic on many tech forums so there is public interest if only to slag it off, then the beeb would not be doing their job if they didn't cover it. If there is ever such public interest in a Palm product i'd expect there to be just as much coverage.

Who said camera on new phone was 2mpx? I've just seen an ad that says its 5 mpx on the 3G.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

Even this thread is pt2...

What an insignificant little device


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2008)

Marius said:


> Who said camera on new phone was 2mpx? I've just seen an ad that says its 5 mpx on the 3G.



Says 2MP on the site: http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone?mco=MTE2NTQ


----------



## MullahNasrudin (Jun 10, 2008)

editor said:


> Considering the new iPhone is nothing more than an incremental upgrade offering _absolutely nothing_ that hasn't been available for some time on other phones, I'd say the phone has attracted excess coverage, especially considering its relatively poor sales in the UK.



That's right up there with Slashdot's first review of the iPod: "No wireless. Less space than a nomad. Lame."

The new iPhone changes things markedly. Early indications are that the 8GB will be available from O2 for £99 on a £30 per month tariff. Which is pretty damn cheap.

But whatever price it goes for, Apple are clearly serious about taking out Nokia and RIM's Blackberry. By making it cheap and bumping up the features to corporate standards, they are aiming to make it the number 1 or number 2 smartphone in the market.

And I think they'll do it -- Nokia have lost the plot and Blackberry's only saving grace at the moment is the hardware keyboard.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 10, 2008)

Best to date.


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2008)

MullahNasrudin said:


> And I think they'll do it -- Nokia have lost the plot and Blackberry's only saving grace at the moment is the hardware keyboard.


So let's get this straight. Nokia - with 45% share of the global market, operating profit up 39% year on year, and sales up 25% on year - have "lost the plot," while Blackberry - the second-biggest smartphone vendor with 13.4% of the market and enjoying booming sales ahead of the iPhone - are just hanging on because of their keyboard?

What's the weather like in your bizarre alternative universe?

http://www.cellular-news.com/story/31639.php
http://www.nokia.com/A4132057
http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9092058


----------



## MullahNasrudin (Jun 11, 2008)

Yeah, Nokia and Blackberry have market share because they've both been in the marketplace far longer than Apple - duh!

But the new pricing strategy and support for corporate networks is a bold strategy to aggressively take market share from these rivals. And I rather think it will work.

As for Nokia losing the plot, the quality of their devices these days is diabolical. A mate has a N95 that one day magically lost the ability to text. It's now packed up completely for no obvious reason. Someone I worked with had an earlier version of the N95 (N93?) and he ended up having it replaced *four times* by Carphone Warehouse.

Say what you like about iPhone, but I've never come across issues like these.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 11, 2008)

Marius said:


> Best to date.



bastard


----------



## Structaural (Jun 11, 2008)

Well my contract ran out this month with my piece of shit Nokia and I left my ipod on a train yesterday (along with my specs, my headphones, my daughter's favourite toy and about 10 new books  ), while coming back from London so it's the iPhone for me next month when they're finally released in Holland. I'm quite looking forward to it, my Nokia won't pick up calls, hardly ever lets me dial out - I think the antennae has gone.
I only use a phone for calling and texting but I like the browser on the iphone so this may change.


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2008)

MullahNasrudin said:


> Yeah, Nokia and Blackberry have market share because they've both been in the marketplace far longer than Apple - duh!


By that bizarre reckoning, Palm should have the biggest share of all in the smartphone market.  Duh!


----------



## tarannau (Jun 11, 2008)

People give such coverage to Apple because it tends to change the market. Who else has jumped into second place with their first product in a well established market, setting terms to the network and changing the channel relationships? Similar with Apple countering the power of the record labels and setting up fairer licensing terms and simplified prices with itunes.

The iphone's also interesting because it changes the nature of smartphone/phone usage. Look at the proportion of people using the iphone to browse the web, mobile video or social networking sites. It's a phenomenal achievement in itself - you can see why other companies and media organisations are looking at the potential of the iphone and rivals in expanding mobile internet use, a huge growth area that they've not been able to tap properly before.


----------



## Bambouk (Jun 11, 2008)

editor said:


> You think so? I find some of the user comments more spot on to be honest.
> 
> Considering the new iPhone is nothing more than an incremental upgrade offering _absolutely nothing_ that hasn't been available for some time on other phones, I'd say the phone has attracted excess coverage, especially considering its relatively poor sales in the UK.



Undoubtedly, coverage has been... on the high side.

Is coverage justified? I think the interest is high enough to justify the coverage.

Is the product any good? It's far from awful, it's hardly handsdown beating everything else out there.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 11, 2008)

Structaural said:


> bastard



Sorry but whenever I'm caught I take great delight in sharing the experience


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2008)

tarannau said:


> People give such coverage to Apple because it tends to change the market. Who else has jumped into second place with their first product in a well established market, setting terms to the network and changing the channel relationships?


Who else has their vast technical resources and budget - they're one of the richest tech companies in the world. 

And who else tried to bully the networks into giving consumers less choice with more restrictive practices?

Thankfully, they failed miserably at that.


Bambouk said:


> Is coverage justified? I think the interest is high enough to justify the coverage.


And there's the triumph of Apple's PR hype. The iPhone has sold relatively poorly in the UK, but more successful phones have barely had a sniff of Apple's coverage.


----------



## tarannau (Jun 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Who else has their vast technical resources and budget - they're one of the richest tech companies in the world?



Well precisely why Nokia, Sony or the likes of Samsung couldn't come up with up a decent browsing alternative years before me is beyond me. First model of mobile phone for Apple and they achieve that. It's not solely hype - it's the fact the product is well integrated and fun/easy to use.

Apple's control freakery is well noted, but it does tend to pay some dividends. Why a producer with as much clout as Nokia couldn't negotiate something like Visual/Non sequential voicemail with the carriers is a bit mystifying, even allowing for comfortable convention. Similarly the deals to negotiate free internet use on Cloud hotspots (and one other) on the iphone, boosting web usage, should have been negotiated by other mobile phone retailers/makers.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 11, 2008)

tarannau said:


> People give such coverage to Apple because it tends to change the market. Who else has jumped into second place with their first product in a well established market, setting terms to the network and changing the channel relationships? Similar with Apple countering the power of the record labels and setting up fairer licensing terms and simplified prices with itunes.
> 
> The iphone's also interesting because it changes the nature of smartphone/phone usage. Look at the proportion of people using the iphone to browse the web, mobile video or social networking sites. It's a phenomenal achievement in itself - you can see why other companies and media organisations are looking at the potential of the iphone and rivals in expanding mobile internet use, a huge growth area that they've not been able to tap properly before.



Impressive stats, blah, blah blah, but who the fuck buys an iPhone and doesn't use it to listen to music on?! 25% of people apparently


----------



## paolo (Jun 11, 2008)

Press coverage about products is not in proportion to unit sales. Ferrari vs. Fiesta, to use an extreme comparison.

A significant driver of press coverage about Apple products is consumer interest. Hence why there is plenty of coverage even when Apple are at the stage of denying a product exists. No marketing, advertising or PR going on.

When the product is released, if it's shit, people say so and the coverage vanishes. Witness iPhone 0.5 - the ROKR... It was crap. Everyone knew it was crap.

The idea that Apple has the press (or indeed the public) on puppet strings doesn't match with Apple's very bumpy track record over the years. A decade or so ago, they were nearly dead, with rumour rife about a Sony takeover.


----------



## tarannau (Jun 11, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Impressive stats, blah, blah blah, but who the fuck buys an iPhone and doesn't use it to listen to music on?! 25% of people apparently



I saw that and chuckled too. Reckon it may be down to people already having an ipod before they purchased the phone. There are probably some of those "it's not got enough capacity for me to consider it as mp3 player,' type knobbers kicking about too, just in case they get stuck on a deserted island for a month or two with a solar charger and _need_ their entire music library with them.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2008)

*Interesting iPhone details out of O2...*

O2 details according to 9to5 Mac:



> *O2 in conjunction with BTOpenzone and The Cloud are creating a Wifi "wireless mesh network"* across London and other UK metropolitan areas.  The coverage is supposed to rival the coverage of cell phone towers.  iPhone users should be able to use this network seamlessly.  Also, O2 customers will be able to log into this mesh with their laptops or desktops.
> *The 3G iPhone isn't SIM replaceable*.  The SIM card is put in the phone as part of the manufacturing process and is not replaceable by the user.  This will certainly curtail unlocking efforts.  According to our source, you CAN remove the SIM... "with a hammer".  This conflicts with the "sim ejector tool" that Apple has listed in its parts box for the US.  We'll see how this develops.
> The *3G iPhone WILL allow Bluetooth Tethering* for laptops.  We asked about Wifi tethering and got a blank stare.  We'll take what we can get.  They said that this was 99.9 percent certain and "Apple can always change their minds".  Since O2 controls the network and costs involved the decision would largely be theirs.
> O2 will control everything network related on the iPhone (APN, etc.).  Their settings will be on the iPhone you buy from the Apple Stores as well.
> ...


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> A significant driver of press coverage about Apple products is consumer interest. Hence why there is plenty of coverage even when Apple are at the stage of denying a product exists. No marketing, advertising or PR going on.


There wasn't exactly an outpouring of 'consumer interest' when the iPhone launched in the UK, yet it was plastered all over the media for weeks beforehand.

So if it wasn't consumers driving the interest - and the modest sales figures would seem to bear that out - then that only leaves the media itself.

Which was my point.





Kid_Eternity said:


> The 3G iPhone isn't SIM replaceable. The SIM card is put in the phone as part of the manufacturing process and is not replaceable by the user. This will certainly curtail unlocking efforts. According to our source, you CAN remove the SIM... "with a hammer".


If that's true, it's Apple's control freakery gone mad!


----------



## tarannau (Jun 11, 2008)

editor said:


> There wasn't exactly an outpouring of 'consumer interest' when the iPhone launched in the UK, yet it was plastered all over the media for weeks beforehand.
> 
> So if it wasn't consumers driving the interest - and the modest sales figures would seem to bear that out - then that only leaves the media itself.
> 
> Which was my point.If that's true, it's Apple's control freakery gone mad!



That doesn't follow logically. Hundreds of thousands of petrolheads have no real interest in buying the latest Ferrari, but will keenly want for news on the latest models. Sales figures aren't the only reason for interest.

Honestly, your righteous mission against Apple 'hype' is getting a little you a little twisted and irrational.


----------



## MullahNasrudin (Jun 11, 2008)

editor said:


> By that bizarre reckoning, Palm should have the biggest share of all in the smartphone market.  Duh!



Good one for mentioning Palm. Remind us all why the Palm Centro is so wonderful? And why isn't it getting blanket coverage like the iPhone?

It's a conspiraloonery, owls, etczzzz...


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Honestly, your righteous mission against Apple 'hype' is getting a little you a little twisted and irrational.


Nothing 'irrational' about discussing what some people feel is the excess media attention being afforded to the iPhone. 

Sorry if daring to mention Apple in anything other than an adoring light offends you, but I think that it is a valid topic for discussion - as does the BBC and numerous other tech sites.


MullahNasrudin said:


> Good one for mentioning Palm. Remind us all why the Palm Centro is so wonderful? And why isn't it getting blanket coverage like the iPhone?


Not sure what your point is, but it's been a phenomenally successful phone, gaining the beleaguered Palm an increased market share last quarter (while Apple's fell), shifting nigh-on 2m units with barely a scrap of publicity/budget in comparison to the iPhone.

I'd say that's pretty remarkable myself, all things considered, but I haven't been claiming that it's some kind of wonder "Jesus" phone or whatever.


----------



## Dask (Jun 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Not sure what your point is, but it's been a phenomenally successful phone, gaining the beleaguered Palm an increased market share last quarter (while Apple's fell), shifting nigh-on 2m units with barely a scrap of publicity/budget in comparison to the iPhone.



The point is no one really cares about Palm or Centro's though, it's a reflection of public interest in Apple's products, specifically the iPhone. It stems entirely from the success of the iPod.


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2008)

Dask said:


> It stems entirely from the success of the iPod.


Well, that product did define - and continues to define - leading edge, top quality MP3 player design, even if they are running into the law of diminishing returns now.


----------



## jonead (Jun 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Well, that product did define - and continues to define - leading edge, top quality MP3 player design, even if they are running into the law of diminishing returns now.



aye, agreed, a great piece of good apple design. 

but in contrast, the iphone is still playing catch-up to other, better, phones.

is there anything in an iphone that i can't get from of either n95 or bb?  apart from a haptic-free life & a smeary screen?

the iphone & iphone have been phenomenally unsuccessful in terms of units sold, features, usability.  it's a shame that apple have produced something that is fap-fap-fap to gadgetheads and bugger all use anywhere else.

worse, it's tied to a network you may not want, it still has issues with video, it's more expensive than iphone1 once the contract & data costs are summed in (AT&T agreement only), it can't really be sold in france, belgium, switz., who ban this kind of vendor tie-in.  the battery has to be sent away to be replaced.  gps is billed.  and so on
ouch

my biggest problem with it is than you don't own the device - with a network tie-in and fixed sim card, you're just leasing its use from o2/apple.  in a business model - certainly in europe - where we change networks and phones every 6 months or less; seems like a Bad Thing to me.  it's a little like insisting that you must use your phone company as your isp, 'cos your pc came with a modem.

apple fanbois: you may not agree but it's worse than the newton.  now go back to licking your steve jobs tattoo

i've been spending most of my time lately flitting between mumbai, nyc and london.  all i ever see are blackberrys (all flavours), nokias (n95 &n96 mostly), and various sony.... christ knows why apple would claim that iphone is a success - on a unit volume sold, design standards setting ,usability, features, restrictiveness, price - IT FAILS.  well ok i concede that the screen _seems_ liek a good idea.  until you use it for anything other than browsing www.stevejobsnekkid.com

plus apple have just taken a long hot piss on all the fanbois who shelled out for the original iphone not 18 months ago.

apple fail
sadly


----------



## Kanda (Jun 11, 2008)

jonead said:


> plus apple have just taken a long hot piss on all the fanbois who shelled out for the original iphone not 18 months ago.
> 
> apple fail
> sadly


 
I agree with most of what you say but not this,  I can get a free upgrade for the iPhone I bought 4 months ago, no other network would do that.


----------



## Dask (Jun 11, 2008)

Personally I think come July 11th those subsidised iPhones will be flying out of the shops.

The only thing that has stopped them becoming as popular as say an iPod is the price factor.

I remember when the first iPods came out and they cost something like £299 for the 5GB and £399 for the 10GB

No one other than the gadget elite had them, but as the cost came down and Apple introduced the Mini/Shuffle/Nano the general public lapped them up.

The same thing will happen with the iPhone.

Give it 5 years and it will be the biggest selling smart phone in the world IMO.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 11, 2008)

jonead said:


> gps is billed.


 
Source please?

Nokia bill for voice gps. 
I haven't seen anything yet that says O2 will be charging for GPS, or at least i can't find it.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 11, 2008)

Dask said:


> Personally I think come July 11th those subsidised iPhones will be flying out of the shops.
> 
> The only thing that has stopped them becoming as popular as say an iPod is the price factor.
> 
> ...


 
I have the same feeling. Just as there are better MP3 players out there iPods are very popular. I think the same will happen with the iPhone. There will be better product out there but it will be the iPhone that the public will want for being the first ones to have pushed touch screen tech to the everyday user.


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 11, 2008)

Dask said:


> Personally I think come July 11th those subsidised iPhones will be flying out of the shops.
> 
> The only thing that has stopped them becoming as popular as say an iPod is the price factor.
> 
> ...



I didn't buy one first time around cos I knew they'd bring in a better model sooner rather than later. I'll be buying one on 11 July.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 11, 2008)

Funnily enough, I'm at my parents' at the moment, and not only does my stepmother love her iPhone (and doesn't even have a Mac) she's got some of her friends buying them, who also love them. I'm not really interested in buying one at all, I've gone off smartphones and it's not got the PIM functions that I need in a PDA (no to do list? what?) so for the first time in my life I'm being out-gadgetted by my (step)parents  The idea that it's only for Apple fans and gadget freaks is way off the mark.


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 11, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Funnily enough, I'm at my parents' at the moment, and not only does my stepmother love her iPhone (and doesn't even have a Mac) she's got some of her friends buying them, who also love them. I'm not really interested in buying one at all, I've gone off smartphones and it's not got the PIM functions that I need in a PDA (no to do list? what?) so for the first time in my life I'm being out-gadgetted by my (step)parents  The idea that it's only for Apple fans and gadget freaks is way off the mark.



Yeah i could imagine uncle Bryn in Gavin & Stacey getting one.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 11, 2008)

With all its faults, I am very tempted at 159..... What I lose in one corner, I gain in another....  My K800i's camera has done me proud at times.


----------



## jonead (Jun 11, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I agree with most of what you say but not this,  I can get a free upgrade for the iPhone I bought 4 months ago, no other network would do that.



fair play



> Source please?
> 
> Nokia bill for voice gps.
> I haven't seen anything yet that says O2 will be charging for GPS, or at least i can't find it.



source is buried in slashdot - i'll dig it out if you like.  it refers to the US AT&T agreement iirc.  you're right about voice nav being billed through nokia n9x

i was maybe being a bit harsh  but it does get my goat and indeed other common farm animals re. the enforced tie-in.   i mean o2, ffs!?


----------



## Gromit (Jun 11, 2008)

jonead said:


> fair play
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yeah tbh O2 aren't my fav carrier. Their Edge network isn't the strongest signal even in the heart of cities.

I get a better signal in the town of Pontypridd than the City of Cardiff and in the town of Merthyr Tydfil i get a full signal on the 2nd floor of my office but only half at ground level.

Thats not exactly the fault of the phone though but the crap provider. Please tell me that their 3G network is better than their 2.5g Edge.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 11, 2008)

For those thinking that the sim card is "hard wired" into the phone - from Apple's website:







Clearly showing the Sim Card slot, and the high-tech paper-clip hole...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2008)

Dask said:


> Personally I think come July 11th those subsidised iPhones will be flying out of the shops.
> 
> The only thing that has stopped them becoming as popular as say an iPod is the price factor.
> 
> ...



I'm inclined to agree with all the above. I reckon I'll see a few people I know get one in the near future. That £100 iPhone line really is an eye grabber.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 11, 2008)

Marius said:


> Source please?
> 
> Nokia bill for voice gps.
> I haven't seen anything yet that says O2 will be charging for GPS, or at least i can't find it.



Seeing as GPS is a non network service, I highly doubt it - the only confusion there might be is that the maps have to be downloaded, which require data to be downloaded - but seeing as data is included, where's the cost? (Unless you're roaming of course).

With the N95, you were recommended to download regional maps through Nokia's Mapping service so that this wouldn't be the case.  Hopefully Apple will do the same.

Though it is worth noting that in the iPhone SDK there is a specific clause barring companies from developing a turn-by-turn service a-la Tom-Tom.

One would presume Apple are developing one themselves.  Which will be chargable, as is Nokias.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 11, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I agree with most of what you say but not this,  I can get a free upgrade for the iPhone I bought 4 months ago, no other network would do that.



On o2???  I know AT&T are just charging a "restocking" fee - didn't know o2 were offering it...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 11, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> On o2???  I know AT&T are just charging a "restocking" fee - didn't know o2 were offering it...



yes on O2, I also get to keep my original iphone that I can pass on to another O2 user if I want.


----------



## pk (Jun 11, 2008)

Well I fucking love Apple computers, because anything Microsoft to me has always been a joke when using anything but games and interwebs.. Constipated bloatware and malvirus shite, no good to me at all. If it doesn't do the job its sacked.

That said I have no interest in anything iPhone. The N95 Nokia is by far better. It has a bigger brain than my iPOD and doesn't fuck about.
Sadly my iPOD has been demoted to a glorified alarm clock via a dock with speakers.

If iPOD and Nokia got together it could be sweet, a 20GB phone that works.

But the iPHONE is little more than a toy to me. Good for girls though, makes a handy compact mirror to check makeup or from which to sniff Bolivian marching powder.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2008)

Kanda said:


> yes on O2, I also get to keep my original iphone that I can pass on to another O2 user if I want.



That's pretty incredible, never heard of any network doing that before.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 11, 2008)

Kanda said:


> yes on O2, I also get to keep my original iphone that I can pass on to another O2 user if I want.



Only if you're on the 45 quid tariff or above though. I have a colleague who bought one off his own back a couple of months ago (and I did warn him) who's spent 300 quid on a phone that's got limited resale value due to the price of the new one, and is now expected to pay another hundred quid to get the latest one.

That's the nature of tech though innit.

I don't see, and wouldn't expect Asus to offer me a rebate for being an early adopter of the eee pc... It's just the way it is, innit.


----------



## jonead (Jun 11, 2008)

pk said:


> If iPOD and Nokia got together it could be sweet, a 20GB phone that works.



fap-fappity-fap



dogmatique said:


> For those thinking that the sim card is "hard wired" into the phone - from Apple's website:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




not sure now ... apple seems to say it's changeable in the us, o2 'sources' say no

we'll see i guess


----------



## rocketman (Jun 11, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Only if you're on the 45 quid tariff or above though. I have a colleague who bought one off his own back a couple of months ago (and I did warn him) who's spent 300 quid on a phone that's got limited resale value.



Don't be silly, these v.1 iPhones will be worth a bomb.


----------



## rocketman (Jun 11, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> O2 details according to 9to5 Mac:



Heh.


----------



## rocketman (Jun 11, 2008)

editor said:


> There wasn't exactly an outpouring of 'consumer interest' when the iPhone launched in the UK, yet it was plastered all over the media for weeks beforehand.
> 
> So if it wasn't consumers driving the interest - and the modest sales figures would seem to bear that out - then that only leaves the media itself.
> 
> Which was my point.If that's true, it's Apple's control freakery gone mad!



Running out of arguments now, really, aint'cha?


----------



## Kanda (Jun 11, 2008)

exactly: that's the nature of tech.

1st time I've ever seen early adopters not penalised.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 11, 2008)

I have to say that the aps store for the iPhone is looking more and more like turning your phone into some sort of tailored lifestyle tool that other phones have tried to do but never quite managed.


----------



## paolo (Jun 12, 2008)

Marius said:


> I have to say that the aps store for the iPhone is looking more and more like turning your phone into some sort of tayored lifestyle tool that other phones have tried to do but never quite managed.



Very possible Apple will pull that off I think. Bit like the whole mp3 thing (in a more micro way). Apple didn't invent it, they just made it all work very easily. That's where they do really well. Making things easy, even if (they way they do it) is fundamentally wrong. It's not "the PR machine". It's a damn bit cleverer than that.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 12, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Very possible Apple will pull that off I think. Bit like the whole mp3 thing (in a more micro way). Apple didn't invent it, they just made it all work very easily. That's where they do really well. Making things easy, even if (they way they do it) is fundamentally wrong. It's not "the PR machine". It's a damn bit cleverer than that.



Undoubtedly, Apple tech is nice stuff, but it is the PR Machine, and sheeps thinking whatever they make is cool, that drives the hype.

Grundig could have released the exact same machine as the iPhone, before Apple, and it would still be a virtual unknown outside of the gadget geek community.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2008)

> Vodafone Italy has set an out-of-contract price for the iPhone 3G at 499/€569 ($773/$881) for the 8GB/16GB models, respectively. Subscription rates have not yet been announced.



So that's £400/£450. Pricey. Very pricey.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&langpair=it|en&u=http://www.iphone.vodafone.it/


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 12, 2008)

The RRP on an unlocked N95 is 400 quid.  Go figure.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> The RRP on an unlocked N95 is 400 quid.  Go figure.


But you can pick them up from Amazon for £292.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nokia-N95-Unlocked-Mobile-Phone/dp/B0011L16RS


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 12, 2008)

Yep, but the RRP is 399 quid - you can get them a lot cheaper now cos they've been out for an age.  I presume the same will happen with the jesus phone once it's been around for as long - especially with it becoming available in 70 countries.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Yep, but the RRP is 399 quid - you can get them a lot cheaper now cos they've been out for an age.  I presume the same will happen with the jesus phone once it's been around for as long - especially with it becoming available in 70 countries.


I didn't see many UK discounts for the iPhone.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 12, 2008)

True, but that's with a strictly controlled market of only 6 countries.  I'd have thought a grey market would develop given time and worldwide supply.

But hey, I could easily be wrong.


----------



## MullahNasrudin (Jun 12, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Grundig could have released the exact same machine as the iPhone, before Apple, and it would still be a virtual unknown outside of the gadget geek community.



Yeah, but the trouble is *no bastard ever does*.

Like it or not, Apple has a genius designer in the form of Britain's Jonny Ive and Jobs helped shepherd the original Mac and the Next computer into existence, making him very experienced in developing new products.

There isn't another company out there that is capable of equalling that achievement.

However, as Windows dies off and Linux devices like the Eee proliferate, you will see more innovation to match Apple.

When Google launch their Android OS for mobiles, you will finally see some serious competition for the iPhone on the software side.

Hopefully the manufacturers will raise their game with regards to the hardware.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 12, 2008)

The back of the 3g phone will be plastic rather than metal as it is now. 

Is this one of the ways they have cut the cost?
How will the phone stand up now to being dropped I wonder. 
I know a couple of people with dented cases, one of them being me (accidents do happen). 
Hope the new case is durable and not scratch prone.


----------



## paolo (Jun 12, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Undoubtedly, Apple tech is nice stuff, but it is the PR Machine, and sheeps thinking whatever they make is cool, that drives the hype.
> 
> Grundig could have released the exact same machine as the iPhone, before Apple, and it would still be a virtual unknown outside of the gadget geek community.



If Grundig had invented the first 'PC', then cleverly stolen the first GUI from Xerox, then become dominant in the creative industries, then invented the iPod... Well, we'd be talking about them quite a bit I imagine.

I'd agree that sometimes people perceptions of Apple are sometimes too high, but that gets quickly corrected when do a duff product. MacBook Air thread, anyone? No - dubious product, everyone lost interest a week after launch.

Apple is not all powerful. It's not 'god like'.
Apple does not mind-control the world. Apple is not 'God-Like.


----------



## Dask (Jun 12, 2008)

12 years ago Apple where about to go bust, Microsoft had something like a 40%  stake in them.

This was before Steve Jobs came back on board.

Look at them now, talk about a turn around.

Regardless of what people think of Jobs, he has done an amazing job at getting Apple back on it's feet.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 12, 2008)

Marius said:


> The back of the 3g phone will be plastic rather than metal as it is now.
> 
> Is this one of the ways they have cut the cost?
> How will the phone stand up now to being dropped I wonder.
> ...



The plastic back is to do with reception due to the different antennas the new phone needs.  It's quite clever in that it also uses bits of the existing phone like the bezel and headphone jack socket to boost signal.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 12, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Undoubtedly, Apple tech is nice stuff, but it is the PR Machine, and sheeps thinking whatever they make is cool, that drives the hype.
> 
> Grundig could have released the exact same machine as the iPhone, before Apple, and it would still be a virtual unknown outside of the gadget geek community.



Perhaps, but remember the iPod.  I wanted a hard disk MP3 player in 2000, I had one but it was big and shit and broke.  Got my money back in the end.  

Then Apple release the iPod for Mac only but it looked very very cool and slotted into a 'Want' for so many people.  So much so that the Mac only thing was a minor limitation that people got around very quickly.

That bit of thinking got that product line to where it is today.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 12, 2008)

My boss, a Mac fan, just reffered to the iPhone as 'fucking pointless' until it gets a keypad. I think a lot of businesses will feel this way.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 12, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> My boss, a Mac fan, just reffered to the iPhone as 'fucking pointless' until it gets a keypad. I think a lot of businesses will feel this way.



Its sleek, slim n sexy. If it had a keypad I'm not sure I'd want it anymore as you'd lose that. The touch pad if fine for emails and even for a bulletin board like this (guess how I'm typing this).

If I want to draft proper documents on the fly etc. I'd use a laptop not my phone. 

People seem to want to do the same on their phone that they would at their office computer and think thats perfectly reasonble. I'd tell my boss to fuck off if they expected me to draft 4 page documents on a phone. 

Be able to read a document and then phone em up maybe but not work on the damn thing.


----------



## WWWeed (Jun 12, 2008)

anyone read this over at the register?

apparently Apple want to do a microsoft and take there chip design in house to save on cost.

All of this xbox360 red ring of death business is down to the gpu overheating which many believe is down to the cheap, Microsoft-designed gpus.

Apple are a software company not a hardware company just like Microsoft. Chipsets are insanely difficult to perfect and take years of many peoples experience and expertise. You don't see HTC or Sony making there own chips in house and there's a reason for that!

Its gonna take something serious to make me give up my windows powered devices now!


----------



## Gromit (Jun 12, 2008)

You dont see MacDonalds farming their own beef to make hamburgers. 

Oh wait they do. Get it right and there can be huge savings from being your own supplier. 
Apple know how to recruit software staff. You saying they can't recruit hardware staff, poach from other companies and set up a good team?

I think they'll do better than M$ who are four times more concerned about keeping unit costs down than Apple are as Apple go for the rich customer not the mass market.


----------



## Dask (Jun 12, 2008)

WWWeed said:


> All of this xbox360 red ring of death business is down to the gpu overheating which many believe is down to the cheap, Microsoft-designed gpus.



Isn't the GPU designed and manufactured by ATI?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenos


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2008)

MullahNasrudin said:


> When Google launch their Android OS for mobiles, you will finally see some serious competition for the iPhone on the software side.


Actually, much of Apple's current software lags behind the best available on other platforms.

There's no doubting that their browser is state of the art and the overall interface pleasing to the touch, but you can generally get superior applications elsewhere, especially when it comes to business/email.


paolo999 said:


> I'd agree that sometimes people perceptions of Apple are sometimes too high, but that gets quickly corrected when do a duff product. MacBook Air thread, anyone? No - dubious product, everyone lost interest a week after launch.


It still got a _whole load_ more publicity than, say, the superior Lenovo X300.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 12, 2008)

They bought a pretty good company there, it could work really well for them. Especially as they specialise in very low-power ARM style chips (the PWRficient) and considering how many iPhones are going to be sold this year.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P.A._Semi


----------



## Structaural (Jun 12, 2008)

WWWeed said:


> anyone read this over at the register?
> 
> apparently Apple want to do a microsoft and take there chip design in house to save on cost.
> 
> ...



Apple make the bulk of their cash selling hardware. They're as much a hardware company as Dell, AlienWare and Boxx.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 12, 2008)

Im wondering if I can get the phone for free and then afterwards drop back down to 35 quid tarriff as I dropped from 45 to 35 when they change the txts you got for 35.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 12, 2008)

Okays I just rang O2. You can go higher but not lower tariff for 9 months. 

9 x £10 = £90

Then I switch back to £35 a month thereby saving myself £9, spreading the cost interest free and getting me loads of free minutes for 9 months. Just have to remember to ask to switch back and I'll get my new iPhone to remind me of that via my calender 

If anyone else is thinking of following suit remeber they need a month's notice before the tariff change.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 12, 2008)

I await the PAYG tariff to be announced as to my next upgrade, still mightly happy with my K800i.


----------



## Dask (Jun 12, 2008)

editor said:


> Actually, much of Apple's current software lags behind the best available on other platforms.
> 
> There's no doubting that their browser is state of the art and the overall interface pleasing to the touch, but you can generally get superior applications elsewhere, especially when it comes to business/email.



That's true, but how long have the other platforms been established?

The iTouch platform is only 1 year old, there aren't even any third party applications available for it yet! (Google maps aside as that is actually written by Apple)


----------



## Structaural (Jun 12, 2008)

Once that App Store opens it's gonna be crazy. I was pretty impressed with the medical apps being written, the games looked PSP quality and the ease you can develop your own was impressive. 
T-mobile is running with it over here.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2008)

Dask said:


> That's true, but how long have the other platforms been established?


I was responding to MullahNasrudin's comment which claimed that Apple were leading mobile software innovation.





> When Google launch their Android OS for mobiles, you will finally see some serious competition for the iPhone on the software side.





Dask said:


> The iTouch platform is only 1 year old, there aren't even any third party applications available for it yet! (Google maps aside as that is actually written by Apple)


Apple wrote Google Maps?!!!

Doesn't seem to say so here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Maps


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 12, 2008)

Marius said:


> Its sleek, slim n sexy. If it had a keypad I'm not sure I'd want it anymore as you'd lose that. The touch pad if fine for emails and even for a bulletin board like this (guess how I'm typing this).
> 
> If I want to draft proper documents on the fly etc. I'd use a laptop not my phone.
> 
> ...



That's kinda the point I was making... it's a consumer phone to show off down the pub (or at Smollensky's ), not a business phone, even with the Exchange email.


----------



## Dask (Jun 12, 2008)

editor said:


> I was responding to MullahNasrudin's comment which claimed that Apple were leading mobile software innovation.
> Apple wrote Google Maps?!!!
> 
> Doesn't seem to say so here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Maps



No you dummy, not google maps

The iPhone application of google maps!!! (aka the front end)

My point was that it isn't a third party app, and that there are currently no third party apps available for it.


----------



## Dask (Jun 12, 2008)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iphone



> Apple developed an iPhone application for accessing Google's maps service in map, satellite or hybrid form, a list of search results, or directions between two locations, while providing optional real-time traffic information.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2008)

So Apple created a copy of the Google Maps application that had already been freely available on several other platforms. That doesn't really help MullahNasrudin's argument, does it?


----------



## WWWeed (Jun 12, 2008)

Dask said:


> Isn't the GPU designed and manufactured by ATI?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenos



From one of the refences to the wiki article you quoted:


> Although the components in the XBOX 360 in its initial form are hardly low cost, the cost of the unit over the course of its lifetime is one that has quite obviously been addressed with contracts that pay via royalties for chips sold and with Microsoft in charge of ordering the chips from the various Fabs, however the original semiconductor manufacturers are likely to still be in charge of further developments in terms of putting the cores on to smaller processes and we believe that this is part of the contract that ATI has with Microsoft.


Which to me suggests they are custom chips built to microsoft's requirements

also
http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2008/06/11/ms_xbox_gp/







plus anyway do you see an ati logo on that so called ati gpu? because I dont!



Structaural said:


> Apple make the bulk of their cash selling hardware. They're as much a hardware company as Dell, AlienWare and Boxx.


and do they make there own chipsets? 

edit: in fact most of them dont even make there own hardware! they just assemble it!


----------



## WWWeed (Jun 12, 2008)

anyway back to my point, Apple should just stick to what there good at. Making hardware (not chips) and software.

I do have to admit that the new 3g iphone is a lot better than its predecessor!


----------



## Dask (Jun 12, 2008)

editor said:


> So Apple created a copy of the Google Maps application that had already been freely available on several other platforms. That doesn't really help MullahNasrudin's argument, does it?



I (not MullahNasrudin) was only saying that the platform is  a year old, and that there are currently no third party apps available for it. 

It's a bit premature to be passing judgement on something that is still very much in it's infancy...isn't it??


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2008)

Dask said:


> It's a bit premature to be passing judgement on something that is still very much in it's infancy...isn't it??


But I wasn't doing that. I was countering  MullahNasrudin's claim about there being no current "serious competition for the iPhone" on the software side until Android appears. Please read the thread in context.


----------



## Dask (Jun 12, 2008)

editor said:


> Please read the thread in context.



I have read the thread in context, all it does is give me a headache.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 12, 2008)

WWWeed said:


> plus anyway do you see an ati logo on that so called ati gpu? because I dont!


 
So what? You can buy heinz beans in tins that say the name of a supermarket on them instead of heinz.

Panasonic used to make TVs and stereos which said Matsui on them. 

Manufacturers will subcontract themselves out and put any logo you want on the product so long as you pay them.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 13, 2008)

WWWeed said:


> and do they make there own chipsets?
> 
> edit: in fact most of them dont even make there own hardware! they just assemble it!



You said that Apple were only a software company like Microsoft and I'm saying that Apple have always sold their own hardware and software together - often innovatively, sometimes crappily. 
They've always been interested in chipsets - they heavily invested in Acorn RISC Machines (ARM) in the 80s and use their chips in the Newton and the iPhone. And now they've bought a company that already succesfully manufacturers chips.

Almost everything out there is assembled from common parts, but there's no denying Apple's skill at this thanks to John Irving.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 13, 2008)

So my next big quandry is do I go for the 8 gig or the 16 gig 3G. 

I have currently 6 gig of music (my entire collection) which I only slowly add to. 
The question is though is how much memory will these aps need and how many aps are going to tickle my fancy. Bet you life that loads of the aps will be aimed at the American market more than Europe so lots for the NBA etc but none for the championship.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 13, 2008)

Would i be right in assuming that Urban75 won't be appearing as an ap for the iPhone?

With lots of features such as live to the minute updates of when Firky gets banned (Like those 4 days since last accident on site signs) and notifications of how many naked urbanites have posted that you haven't yet viewed (with one of those lovely red numbers)


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2008)

Looks like Apple have still got some way to go to attract enterprise users:



> For Jack Gold, principal of J. Gold Associates, the news on the enterprise front is still pretty shallow.
> 
> "I didn't hear a lot of anything new, to be honest," he said, pointing to Apple's previous announcements of Microsoft Exchange support and third-party applications.
> 
> ...


----------



## tarannau (Jun 14, 2008)

Pish. Encryption services are already available for the iphone, with more certain to follow. One example here.
http://www.checkpoint.com/iphone

People habitually trip up in their uninformed, habitual haste to have a pop at Apple, but you'd expect better than this inaccurate tosh.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 14, 2008)

editor said:


> Looks like Apple have still got some way to go to attract enterprise users:


 
Stupid ones at least. Mobile me isn't for enterprises, its for the rest of us.

The enterprise suite is for enterprise users. Hence the name.
Tested by Fortune 500 companies you can bet your arse security was taken into account. Enforce security policies, VPN protocols and remote wipe if the device is swiped.


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Pish. Encryption services are already available for the iphone, with more certain to follow. One example here.
> http://www.checkpoint.com/iphone


Where does it say that the data is encrypted *on the phone* like on a Blackberry?



> When you enable content protection on your BlackBerry, the BlackBerry will encrypt data that it determines to be sensitive, e.g. emails, browser cache, address book entries etc. This prevents someone with physical access to your handheld, from connecting it to a PC and extracting sensitive data. This will give you piece of mind, if your handheld is lost or stolen.
> 
> When you lock your handheld, the BlackBerry will start to encrypt data, initially this may take quite some time. While the BlackBerry is encrypting data, an Open Pad Lock icon will be displayed. When the BlackBerry is finished encrypting data, the Pad Lock icon will close.
> http://www.blackberrytips.net/tips.php?id=74



I do hope you've written to that guy to tell him that he's got it all wrong because I'm beginning to think that in your habitual haste to defend your heroes Apple, you've posted up  uninformed, inaccurate tosh.

Oh, and I wasn't having an unfair pop at Apple. I was simply adding to the reasoned debate we had earlier about the iPhone's corporate take up. The article I linked to seems to deal with that in some detail. Sorry if the content upset you.


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2008)

More "inaccurate tosh": 





> There are several reasons for saying the iPhone isn’t enterprise-ready: no provision for encrypting resident data, no way to load apps, and no provision for resident data. While you can certainly make a case that encrypting data on the device (even contacts) is necessary for many enterprises, the model that keeps apps and data on the Web–removing the need for these to be remotely managed–is exactly the kind of mobile platform enterprises ought to want.
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=6064





> IPhones are creating an increased security threat to businesses, especially when used with Wi-Fi networks, an Australian expert has warned.
> 
> Chris Gatford, senior security consultant at Pure Hacking, highlighted that the adoption by businesses of the iPhone will "elevate risk to a level never seen before."
> 
> ...



And more widely reported 'tosh' here:
http://www.infoworld.com/article/08/06/13/iPhone_3G_not_there_yet_for_widescale_business_use_1.html


----------



## Gromit (Jun 14, 2008)

Maybe an encryption ap will surfaceat some stage in the aps store. 

Not everyone will want an encryption program taking up space on their 8gb hard drive and will want the choice.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 16, 2008)

Marius said:


> Maybe an encryption ap will surfaceat some stage in the aps store.
> 
> Not everyone will want an encryption program taking up space on their 8gb hard drive and will want the choice.



PGP is Tiny in footprint but big on CPU, but to be effective its best if its built in to the OS simply because tools generally work on specific sets of data and not all data.


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2008)

Marius said:


> Maybe an encryption ap will surfaceat some stage in the aps store.


Maybe one will, but that doesn't make tarannau any more wrong.

Of more interest is an article by John Naughton in yesterday's Guardian where he warns Apple's success may ultimately be bad news for consumers:



> But in fact the possibility that Apple might become as dominant in the mobile phone market as it is in the online music business should ring warning bells everywhere.
> 
> The iPhone is the first phone that makes accessing the internet from a handheld device seem pleasurable. You can see that in the data about Google searches from mobiles, which shows that traffic began to soar the moment the iPhone launched.....
> 
> ...


----------



## Structaural (Jun 16, 2008)

Nothing new there, Apple have sold proprietary systems since the Apple II, if you don't like it, don't buy it, it annoys me but there's not much to be done about it. It's all reasonably (easily) hackable if you'd like more control. The SDK is free and you can be sure they'll be a quick hack to allow you to install your apps without using the store. The thing about the store from their perspective is it allows some level of organisation and quality control. 
I'm pretty sure they've stopped 'bricking' phones - you just have to jailbreak them again after an update.

As to Apple being bad for consumers - they push innovation considerably, that is positive for all consumers as other manufacturers scramble to keep up. Everyone else will get touch-screens soon, non-apple MP3 players are better than ever, Blackberry, Nokia at al  have been given a kick up the arse and are improving their products as a consequence.


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2008)

Structaural said:


> As to Apple being bad for consumers - they push innovation considerably, that is positive for all consumers as other manufacturers scramble to keep up. Everyone else will get touch-screens soon, non-apple MP3 players are better than ever, Blackberry, Nokia at al  have been given a kick up the arse and are improving their products as a consequence.


In terms of technology, Apple have always been leaders, producing some fantastic, innovative products, but their business practices worry me.

Their attempt to force consumers into a restrictive, expensive and long term deals with the iPhone would have set a disastrous precedent for the industry - luckily European punters were luke warm to the idea - and no matter how good the product, there  are reasonable concerns ahead if Apple's vast clout sees them  gaining a dominant position in the mobile market.

We should be pushing for open, user-configurable standards, not closed systems with the ever present threat of a bricking for anyone who doesn't toe the party line.

I like Apple products but I just don't understand why so many people just _accept_ the proprietary restrictions that comes with them. Let's hope Android delivers.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 16, 2008)

editor said:


> In terms of technology, Apple have always been leaders, producing some fantastic, innovative products, but their business practices worry me.
> 
> Their attempt to force consumers into a restrictive, expensive and long term deals with the iPhone would have set a disastrous precedent for the industry - luckily European punters were luke warm to the idea - and no matter how good the product, there  are reasonable concerns ahead if Apple's vast clout sees them  gaining a dominant position in the mobile market.



Yeah it was nice to see Apple get a slap in Europe. The iPhone should be halfway reasonable when it gets released.



> We should be pushing for open, user-configurable standards, not closed systems with the ever present threat of a bricking for anyone who doesn't toe the party line.



I agree, but I can see why Apple did it like they did - the phone market is pretty proprietary anyway, there's little consistency there, they had something new and special and so sold it as an overpriced, exclusive toy that could then be made cheaper for the masses. It's sort of worked, people want the phone and it hasn't even got cut & paste.



> I like Apple products but I just don't understand why so many people just _accept_ the proprietary restrictions that comes with them. Let's hope Android delivers.



I look forward to that for same reasons I look forward to Apple products - the industry is forced to improve. Android will be a major challenge to the iPhone - they just need to chuck it in a decent touch-screen phone. Someone will hack Android onto a iPhone no doubt.

You're not really going to get wholly away from proprietary restrictions with a company that sells its own software and its own hardware, it's their model and it protects both streams up to a point. It's pretty easy to run only Linux on a Mac or OS X on a PC, just takes a bit of time.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 16, 2008)

I'm still waiting for a major challenger to the iPod.  

The Android platform is OK, but not as nice as the iPhone.  I'm not so sure that it will come close to rivalling it for ease of use.

After 8 years of competition, someone should have come up with an MP3 player that comes close to rivalling the iPod in looks and ease of use, astonishingly nobody really has.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2008)

Interesting Apple 3G vs the rest video piece:
http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/15474/16498/megawhat-iphone-3g-versus-rest.phtml

Summary:
HTC Diamond easily pwns the iPhone on features by miles - its smaller, faster and the interface is good, but Apple claws back a few points with its slick interface
Samsung i900 - good phone, better specs than iPhone but really for WM fanboys and fiddly to use
Blackberry Bold - a real contender

Winner: HTC or iPhone.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 17, 2008)

I'd consider that HTC if I wasn't already an Apple user.


----------



## Xanadu (Jun 17, 2008)

I can't be fucked with HTC anymore - the WM interface has started to piss me off too much.  iPhone also has loads better sound quality on the headphone output (and actually has a proper 3.5mm headphone output)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 17, 2008)

The lack of a proper headphone jack is the one thing that _really_ annoys me about my Vario II.


----------



## Iam (Jun 17, 2008)

Xanadu said:


> I can't be fucked with HTC anymore - the WM interface has started to piss me off too much.  iPhone also has loads better sound quality on the headphone output (and actually has a proper 3.5mm headphone output)



We've got a load of S700s (I think, Vodafone v1415s, anyway) here and they're awful, really not up to HTCs usual quality.

However, compared to my v1520 (Asus P550), they're amazing. Easily the worst mobile device I've ever had. Thankfully, it's not mine.

I need to replace my iPod, and I was seriously thinking about a 32GB touch, so the iPhone's a good option right now for me.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 17, 2008)

That HTC. If I had unlimited data and 500 txts a month how would it compare on price to the iPhone?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 17, 2008)

Hmmmm, I wonder if T-Mobile will be getting the HTC Touch Pro anytime soon?

Coz I want one


----------



## Structaural (Jun 17, 2008)

More on the Apps stuff:

http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_9599971

*Application developers swarm to iPhone*


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2008)

Walt Mossberg has filed one of the first iPhone 3G reviews: http://ptech.allthingsd.com/20080708/newer-faster-cheaper-iphone-3g/

Have a read and see what you think (I'm off for breakfast!)


----------



## Crispy (Jul 9, 2008)

> More important, in daily use, I found the battery indicator on the new 3G model slipping below 20% by early afternoon or midafternoon on some days, and it entirely ran out of juice on one day. I overcame this problem by learning to use Wi-Fi instead of 3G whenever possible, turning down the screen brightness and even turning off 3G altogether, which the phone permits.



Fail. This puts me off. No sale.


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Fail. This puts me off. No sale.


That is truly rubbish. You can have all the groovy features in the world, but  if the phone runs out of juice when you're out and about, they're worth nothing.


----------



## jæd (Jul 9, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Fail. This puts me off. No sale.



Dunno about you, but I would be wary of being so quick label a device after one review, and probably on a pre-production device, with possibly a beta firmware.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 9, 2008)

Well naturally. I'll read other reviews, no doubt. But this is a bad sign.


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2008)

Another review, a bit on the so-so side but loving the games capability and App Store: The GPS appears to be next to useless in cities:



> Unfortunately, there’s not much you can do with the G.P.S. According to Apple, the iPhone’s G.P.S. antenna is much too small to emulate the turn-by-turn navigation of a G.P.S. unit for a vehicle, for example.
> 
> Instead, all it can do at this point is track your position as you drive along, representing you as a blue dot sliding along the roads of the map. Even then, the metal of a car or the buildings of Manhattan are often enough to block the iPhone’s view of the sky, leaving it just as confused as you are....
> 
> ...



And a generally good review here, but with the same battery concerns:

_You can turn off 3G to preserve the battery. I started receiving low battery warnings toward the end of a busy work day; I found myself charging the device overnight, the same as with the older iPhone._

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/columnist/edwardbaig/2008-07-08-iphone-3g-review_N.htm


----------



## jæd (Jul 9, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Well naturally. I'll read other reviews, no doubt. But this is a bad sign.



Personally, I'd be looking out for people's personal experience. Ie, not being a lemming and buying one on the first day. Even if that were possible...!


----------



## Structaural (Jul 9, 2008)

Probably why Apple want to make lower powered chips to improve on their dire battery problems. Not a good sign.

How hard is it to replace batteries yourself then?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 9, 2008)

Requires soldering skills.


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Requires soldering skills.


And a fond farewell to your warranty.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 9, 2008)

oh dear.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 9, 2008)

From these, I think that there are few things that you have to take into account before you buy one.

Poor battery.  
No keyboard. 
No flash support
No MMS
Poor business functionality

Battery power is a technological issue.  Batteries have been getting better but its not kept pace with technology. Technology has had to get more power efficient. 3g support is much better in the UK, so the phone does not have to ratchet up the power, so this might make a difference.  

What you do get is
Full browser
A-GPS Maps
An fully fledged iTouch
Phone with full (touch) keyboard
WiFi

My take on it is, if you want a PDA there are better ones out there with real keyboards.

If you want a media device in your phone then there nothing out there with the quality of this device right now.  There might be in the future, given the rest of the worlds track record taking on the iPod, don't hold your breath.  Nothing even remotely close to the iPod as a media device and thats dominated for 8 years now.

Classical tech buying problem, its not perfect, but its quite desirable, do you want it now or do you want to wait for better?

At what point do you go 'fuck it' and sign that contract.  I am going to take the plunge, I need a new iPod anyway.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 9, 2008)

I don't really need a full-on PDA. I don't use To-Dos, my calendar is for social events and holidays, my work email stays at work. I need a new ipod.

But if I can't get through a day's worth phone, internet, and music on a charge, then it's just not worth it.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 9, 2008)

Its that lovely display + 3g that kills it I reckon.  Apple have made the design choice that they want it a certain size for aesthetic reasons which gives them a certain battery power. Batter power has got better but its been a slow process.

Its not like you can't get a power pack for it, plenty out there if it uses the standard iPod connector.

Here's a nice one...

http://shop.ipodworld.co.uk/iPodWor...PowerTraveller_PowerMonkey_Travel_Charger.htm


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Its not like you can't get a power pack for it, plenty out there if it uses the standard iPod connector.


Not exactly attractive or easy to pocket that thing, is it?


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 9, 2008)

I had one of those Power Monkey things, and quite frankly, it was rubbish.  I'm still waiting on delivery of one of these Proporta things the Ed recommended...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 9, 2008)

So, you can have 3G on your iphone, but you need to turn it off to get through a day using it.

Genius 


And the fact they haven't fixed the basics - MMS, cut 'n' paste and so on beggers belief.

Shit on a (very expensive) stick


----------



## Gromit (Jul 9, 2008)

Theres no denying that no swap out battery is a bag of fail. 

Not only do consumers want it theyd make money selling the spare batteries.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Not exactly attractive or easy to pocket that thing, is it?


I'd never use one. Even if I had one, it'd just be far too much fuss.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 9, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, you can have 3G on your iphone, but you need to turn it off to get through a day using it.
> 
> Genius
> 
> ...



I'm betting that there will be a MMS app in the apps store. For a small fee. 

Left out of core software as Americans don't use it, only the rest of the world who can stump up then seeing as keeping it cheap for Americans is the main thing.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 9, 2008)

It boils down to either living with the flaws or not.  

Given that it looks like Apple might not have enough to sell anyway, 22 countries, its going to be a mute point.  Making a few million of these takes some serious time, so unless you want to go queue, its unlikely you'll get one.

Apple might have shot their bolt too early, if I can't buy one for months then I'll not bother.

Quite like the PAYG version at 350 quid rather than the 18 month contract.


----------



## jæd (Jul 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> It boils down to either living with the flaws or not.



And there I was thinking it was about picking a phone which has features to suit the individual, and its reliability, perceived or otherwise...



Sunray said:


> Given that it looks like Apple might not have enough to sell anyway, 22 countries, its going to be a mute point.  Making a few million of these takes some serious time, so unless you want to go queue, its unlikely you'll get one.



Cheery soul, aren't you...?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 9, 2008)

jæd said:


> And there I was thinking it was about picking a phone which has features to suit the individual, and its reliability, perceived or otherwise...
> 
> 
> 
> Cheery soul, aren't you...?



This particular phone has been discussed to death, if you don't know the pros/cons by now your stupid.

My current phone has shit MP3 capabilities but there isn't a 300 page thread on it.

Don't let my negativity stop you queueing up at the nearest O2 or Apple shop.  Go to Regent st, with a henna (or real) tatto on the forehead of an Apple logo.  Never know your luck, might get into the news. Apple might even give you a job.


----------



## jæd (Jul 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> This particular phone has been discussed to death, if you don't know the pros/cons by now your stupid.
> 
> My current phone has shit MP3 capabilities but there isn't a 300 page thread on it.



Hmm... Good to see U75 debating hasn't changed much...


----------



## Sunray (Jul 9, 2008)

jæd said:


> Hmm... Good to see U75 debating hasn't changed much...





Your trolling is very poor quality.


----------



## jæd (Jul 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Your trolling is very poor quality.



 So lets recap. 

* I make a point saying that each person should evaluate a phone on its own merits. Underlying point is that what some people think of as flaws, probably aren't due to people's differing perceptions...

* I get told that if I "don't know the pros/cons" I'm "stupid"

* I respond negatively this. Strange that, people not liking being called "stupid".

* I get told I'm "trolling".

Hmm... I think I will get a 3G iphone, since it has the power to warp people's emotions so they get wound up about them... Think of the mind control uses...!


----------



## Sunray (Jul 9, 2008)

jæd said:


> So lets recap.
> 
> * I make a point saying that each person should evaluate a phone on its own merits. Underlying point is that what some people think of as flaws, probably aren't due to people's differing perceptions...
> 
> ...



If you don't know the pros/cons *by now* seeing as we have been talking about it for an entire YEAR.  So yes you specifically are fairly stupid.


----------



## jæd (Jul 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> This particular phone has been discussed to death, if you don't know the pros/cons by now your stupid.
> 
> My current phone has shit MP3 capabilities but there isn't a 300 page thread on it.
> 
> Don't let my negativity stop you queueing up at the nearest O2 or Apple shop.  Go to Regent st, with a henna (or real) tatto on the forehead of an Apple logo.  Never know your luck, might get into the news. Apple might even give you a job.



Hmmm... Perhaps someone needs some iPills to calm down deery. Its only a phone...!


----------



## jæd (Jul 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> If you don't know the pros/cons *by now* seeing as we have been talking about it for an entire YEAR.  So yes you specifically are fairly stupid.



Cool. Lets keep the i-insults coming. Perhaps I shoould but you on me i-Ignore List. Have a nice life. Taa-raa...!


----------



## Sunray (Jul 9, 2008)

Nobody's every told me that before.  Do I get a badge.

I wonder if he posts up the ignore post bit to try to make a point?


----------



## asbestos (Jul 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> your stupid.


----------



## paolo (Jul 10, 2008)

Looks like it could be down to 5 hours browsing time. How does this compare with other 3G phones?


----------



## Pie 1 (Jul 10, 2008)

> There’s still no copy-and-paste, Bluetooth or (MMS)



Jesus wept. 
What's the bloody problem? 

I was on the verge of getting one this time too...  kinda getting bored of saying 'ah,ok - maybe in 6 months then'


----------



## Crispy (Jul 10, 2008)

There is bluetooth, but it's for headsets only.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 10, 2008)

Crispy said:


> There is bluetooth, but it's for headsets only.


 
Very restricted Bluetooth. You can't sync via bluetooth or anything like that. No stereo bluetooth headsets.


----------



## pk (Jul 10, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Looks like it could be down to 5 hours browsing time. How does this compare with other 3G phones?



About the same for an N95 8GB...


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Jul 10, 2008)

Probably posted this on the wrong thread.

http://urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=7746941&postcount=137


----------



## Sunray (Jul 10, 2008)

Pie 1 said:


> Jesus wept.
> What's the bloody problem?
> 
> I was on the verge of getting one this time too...  kinda getting bored of saying 'ah,ok - maybe in 6 months then'



You just have to live with all the short comings and hope they get fixed in the future.  Apple do have a reasonable track record of updating their software over time but currently their dev team seem to be focusing on the business model, rather than tidying up the product.  MMS and CnP are sitting in someones queue 'low priority'.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 10, 2008)

You can add C&P if you jailbreak it, but of course some people won't want to do that.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 10, 2008)

My worry is that they can't find a simple enough way to integrate CnP into the interface. I bet they've tried it, but Steve has vetoed it on grounds of unintuitivity (sp?)

lack of MMS and Video is just stupid, though.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 10, 2008)

Crispy said:


> My worry is that they can't find a simple enough way to integrate CnP into the interface. I bet they've tried it, but Steve has vetoed it on grounds of unintuitivity (sp?)
> 
> lack of MMS and Video is just stupid, though.



I wondered that, but strange considering they pretty much invented C&P.

I agree, maybe there'll be some apps that take care of that. I've never used MMS but video is handy.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jul 10, 2008)

Crispy said:


> My worry is that they can't find a simple enough way to integrate CnP into the interface. I bet they've tried it, but Steve has vetoed it on grounds of unintuitivity (sp?)
> 
> lack of MMS and Video is just stupid, though.



And there is absofuckinglutely no excuse for the bluetooth situation either.


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> You just have to live with all the short comings and hope they get fixed in the future.  Apple do have a reasonable track record of updating their software over time but currently their dev team seem to be focusing on the business model, rather than tidying up the product.  MMS and CnP are sitting in someones queue 'low priority'.


I wouldn't call over a year - and still counting - and two models to introduce such mobile _rock-bottom_ basics like cut and paste, MMS and video a particularly impressive record of updating.



Marius said:


> Very restricted Bluetooth. You can't sync via bluetooth or anything like that.


What?!! Even my 3yr old Treo could manage that! And it's handy too.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 10, 2008)

Its the way Apple work. 

Stlye and usability for the average smuck on the street are its direction to make the device as attractive to as many peeps as possible. They leave geekier features such as advance Bluetooth use to geekier handsets. 

Like look how long it took to have playlist shuffle on the iPod. Ridiculous.


----------



## paolo (Jul 10, 2008)

pk said:


> About the same for an N95 8GB...



That puzzled me for a bit (given that, at a guess, the iPhone 3G has perhaps a 1600mAh battery vs the 1200 mAh in the N95 8GB).

I guess it may be down to the N95 having a much lower resolution screen, which will help with power usage.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 10, 2008)

gotta get an OLED in there, I reckon.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 10, 2008)

editor said:


> I wouldn't call over a year - and still counting - and two models to introduce such mobile _rock-bottom_ basics like cut and paste, MMS and video a particularly impressive record of updating.
> 
> What?!! Even my 3yr old Treo could manage that! And it's handy too.



They have updated it quite a few times in the year, just not added those features.  Who knows why?  So there may well be rejoicing in the future when Apple announce cut and past.  Perhaps they are leaving it till next year for Steve Jobs to announce so he can get some extra 'whoops'

As for OLED, tech is too expensive and new for a device like that.  Apple have been good at taking proven technology and making it work well. Sony's OLED is 1500 quid for an 11 inch model.


----------



## jæd (Jul 10, 2008)

The 2.0 firmware seems to be available, according to MacRumors : http://www.macrumors.com/2008/07/10/iphone-2-0-firmware-5a347-available-early/

And the AppStore seems to be open...  Third-party applications, ahoy...!


----------



## paolo (Jul 10, 2008)

jæd said:


> The 2.0 firmware seems to be available, according to MacRumors : http://www.macrumors.com/2008/07/10/iphone-2-0-firmware-5a347-available-early/
> 
> And the AppStore seems to be open...  Third-party applications, ahoy...!



Gah! If only my 2G hadn't failed yesterday! (Bottom half of touch screen not responding, so it's gone to iPhone hospital).

*runs off to look at the AppStore*


----------



## Gromit (Jul 10, 2008)

Well I've download 6 free apps.

Disappointed to see no 3rd party MMS app has stepped forward desipte there being such apps already on the market.

Now trying to decide how brave i am. Install that 2.0 software before its offical release or not.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 10, 2008)

Bloomberg for iPhone on release  

Think Blackberry gonna get run out of this office lol


----------



## Gromit (Jul 10, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Bloomberg for iPhone on release
> 
> Think Blackberry gonna get run out of this office lol


 
Means nothing to me. Is it some sort of Yuppie thing


----------



## Kanda (Jul 10, 2008)

It's an application for stocks and shares, real time. Most of our office use it (Traders). I'm in IT, not a trader btw!!


----------



## Sunray (Jul 10, 2008)

Over 800 Apps from day 1 which I think is fairly impressive


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Over 800 Apps from day 1 which I think is fairly impressive


How many are free? And are they all any good?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 10, 2008)

115 are free.

no-one knows yet. the 2.0 firmware isn't (officially) out yet.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 10, 2008)

'Shazam' looks pretty nifty. Hold the iphone up to any music that's playing, and it'll do that online lookup thing, then provide you with youtube and itunes music store links to that song.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 10, 2008)

If that works as described, it will be very impressive!


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2008)

Crispy said:


> 'Shazam' looks pretty nifty. Hold the iphone up to any music that's playing, and it'll do that online lookup thing, then provide you with youtube and itunes music store links to that song.


You can already do that on other phones (maybe not with the iTune$ link), but some make you pay for the service.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 10, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> If that works as described, it will be very impressive!


 
It does. I just tested it. Its way cool.

What i've tested so far:

Remote - WiFi turns your iPhone into a remote control for itunes. It was like using the touch iPod controls, playlists, songs, artists, etc. cept the music comes out of my PC speakers 

Shazam - does what it says on the tin.

Facebook - Used it to IM with a mate, fast response and shows how many unread messages on my icon.

Phonesabre - Its childish i know but i beamed when my phone started to making lightsabre noises as i swung it around.

Voicenotes - no speaker option but works fine.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 10, 2008)

editor said:


> iTune$


Oh please. I thought you'd be above that. Is it any different from getting your music from a $hop?

btw, Shazam is free, and usage is free


----------



## revol68 (Jul 10, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Oh please. I thought you'd be above that. Is it any different from getting your music from a $hop?
> 
> btw, Shazam is free, and usage is free



yes because you can just download an mp3 for free on any torrent site or soulseek. iTunes is just a shitty weak attempt to make a halfway house to cover up the yawning gap between the forces of production and their relations.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 10, 2008)

ok, I understand. useful for people who do buy music though - there are plenty of them


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 10, 2008)

So you can use it know what to type into your choice of torrent site. Still dead nifty.


----------



## elbows (Jul 10, 2008)

10 absurd new iPhone apps:

http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13549_7-9987795-30.html


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 11, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Oh please. I thought you'd be above that. Is it any different from getting your music from a $hop?
> 
> btw, Shazam is free, and usage is free



For a limited period according to the app store...  Though this is a great service, and all other phones charge for it, so I don't mind the rare occasion paying for it.

Having said that though, I know the later Sony phones have come with a version - is that always free, or a premium texty thing?  Anyone?  Buller?


----------



## pk (Jul 11, 2008)

revol68 said:


> yes because you can just download an mp3 for free on any torrent site or soulseek. iTunes is just a shitty weak attempt to make a halfway house to cover up the yawning gap between the forces of production and their relations.



Shhh!! Don't f'ckin TELL them though!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 11, 2008)

Marius said:


> Phonesabre - Its childish i know but i beamed when my phone started to making lightsabre noises as i swung it around



OK, _now_ I have a reason to buy an iphone


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> OK, _now_ I have a reason to buy an iphone


You can do this with a Wii Remote too - link it to the mac (think there's a pc version too) with bluetooth, then wave it around to get lightsaber sounds from the speakers


----------



## Kanda (Jul 11, 2008)

Where's the iPhone 2 software??! Not on iTunes yet


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 11, 2008)

Crispy said:


> You can do this with a Wii Remote too - link it to the mac (think there's a pc version too) with bluetooth, then wave it around to get lightsaber sounds from the speakers



I haven't got a Wii


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 11, 2008)

Upgraded to 2.0 software, but of course!  The App Store is unable to process any transactions!  So no new apps to play with for now either.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 11, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Upgraded to 2.0 software, but of course!  The App Store is unable to process any transactions!  So no new apps to play with for now either.



How?! Not via iTunes?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 11, 2008)

jæd said:


> The 2.0 firmware seems to be available, according to MacRumors : http://www.macrumors.com/2008/07/10/iphone-2-0-firmware-5a347-available-early/
> 
> And the AppStore seems to be open...  Third-party applications, ahoy...!



Kanda ^^^^ 

There is a link to the file there. 

Then you shift click (ithink) on update and it let's you browse to the file for update.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 11, 2008)

Shift Click itself done it, it kept telling me there was no update. It'll download now, thanks.


----------



## paolo (Jul 11, 2008)

From AppleInsider:


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2008)

70 dollars!?!?!  wtf costs 70 dollars?


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 11, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Shift Click itself done it, it kept telling me there was no update. It'll download now, thanks.



Instructions here.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 11, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Instructions here.



I'd been clicking Update in iTunes and it kept saying it was up to date. As soon as you shift & click it, it refreshes and can see the 2.0 Firmware straight from Apple.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 11, 2008)

Guardian report on the shambolic launch:

link


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2008)

Maybe O2's bumbling is the price punters are paying for the aggressive deal Apple struck with them?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2008)

I think it's more likely that O2 are just a bit (alright, a lot) shit.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2008)

Crispy said:


> I think it's more likely that O2 are just a bit (alright, a lot) shit.


They're definitely shite, but Apple did the deal with the fuckers, so they have to take some of the blame for the chaos. If they hadn't have asked for such a fat slice of the profits they could have gone with a more competent company.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 11, 2008)

Editor wouldn't be able to sleep without blaming Apple




(Joke fella! )


----------



## Iam (Jul 11, 2008)

editor said:


> They're definitely shite, but Apple did the deal with the fuckers, so they have to take some of the blame for the chaos. If they hadn't have asked for such a fat slice of the profits they could have gone with a more competent company.



All the telcos are that shite, though.


----------



## paolo (Jul 11, 2008)

Iam said:


> All the telcos are that shite, though.



My view too. I've had accounts with most of them. Hate them all.

(Although I think O2 have gone the extra mile this morning, by all accounts)


----------



## Iam (Jul 11, 2008)

Yeah, I'm not sure after all this - even though you had to sorta expect it - that I really want to _pay_ them, for anything. Ever.

But I know that if it had been Orange, or Vodafone, it would have been just as shambolic.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2008)

They're all ropey but it takes a special kind of incompetence to spend £3m on a webform that collapses at the first sign of customers - and by all accounts the demand is somewhat less than some had hoped for.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 11, 2008)

editor said:


> They're all ropey but it takes a special kind of incompetence to spend £3m on a webform that collapses at the first sign of customers



The apparent fact that you have to use a Microsoft product to activate it is so incompetant that it's bordering on genius


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 11, 2008)

Has anyone managed to download an app today?  Still borked for me...


----------



## Kanda (Jul 11, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Has anyone managed to download an app today?  Still borked for me...



Yup, but via phone (WiFi) not Store, store is bogged down.


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 11, 2008)

I get the same message on both - "The iTunes Store is unable to process purchases at this time.  Please try again later."


----------



## Gromit (Jul 11, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Has anyone managed to download an app today? Still borked for me...


 
I DL'd 2 by Edge so it must be working?


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 11, 2008)

For some but not all... both still fooked for me.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2008)

Its not just O2, Apple have botched the launch too, its all gone wrong stateside. Not sure if AT&T are at fault at all but Apple certainly are.

I wasted some time yesterday because a bunch of ipod touch fools were convinced the 2.0 firmware was coming out yesterday, it was kinda funny watching them creating 95 page threads and generally going nuts.

Not to mention the pathetically low stock levels. Youd think they could have done better considering how long theyve had to prepare for launch, and how long the original iphone had been out of stock.

I like these devices, but as Apple's usually slick face is scary to me, its good to see them drop a bollock here and there. Their new .me service has been up and down like a yoyo too apparently.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2008)

Oh its even worse than I thought because a lot of people who have upgraded to 2.0 firmware have got stuck with temporarily bricked phones, because reactivation is required after the upgrade, and the activation servers arent working for many people.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 11, 2008)

elbows said:


> Oh its even worse than I thought because a lot of people who have upgraded to 2.0 firmware have got stuck with temporarily bricked phones, because reactivation is required after the upgrade, and the activation servers arent working for many people.



Happened to me too, for about an hour till I could connect. Too much traffic bogged them down


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2008)

elbows said:


> Oh its even worse than I thought because a lot of people who have upgraded to 2.0 firmware have got stuck with temporarily bricked phones, because reactivation is required after the upgrade, and the activation servers arent working for many people.


There's some peeps who upgraded to their shiny new iPhone 3G from the original model and ended up with *both* phones borked because of the activation problems.

Quality.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2008)

Mind you having just updated my ipod touch to 2.0 and tried a few apps, Id say that this platform is a massive win. Especially when more developers make good stuff, there is a lot of rubbish in the app store, as well as some quality, but Im totally sold on the platform overall.

If you dont have too many gigs of music, dont care about the phone, but love the multitouch, accelerometer and apps, I have no hesitation in recommending the ipod touch. Its great fun, I can type just as quick with the screen as a physical keyboard, and if they do devices like this with larger screens in future, then woo, they are gonna get a nice chunk of the market. Except Apples prices probably wont be too compatible with a recession.

I will put up with all of the downsides of Apple because I have more fun with their stuff, and I enjoy using it, something that was lacking in my previous decade of windows use and all the other small devices Ive wasted my money on. Today Apple has brought the opposite of fun to a lot of people, and even if they sort their servers out quickly, there will be plenty of unhappy people due to the crappy stock situation.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2008)

elbows said:


> Today Apple has brought the opposite of fun to a lot of people, and even if they sort their servers out quickly, there will be plenty of unhappy people due to the crappy stock situation.


Don't get me wrong: I think the iPhone is a breath of fresh air and will hopefully give the likes of Microsoft an enormous kick up the arse to sort out their fucking shite usability and interface.

I think it's a great phone with a superb interface and form factor that can only keep on growing in popularity but it's the endless over the top hyperbolic squeaking that riles me, coupled with fears about Apple's proprietary practices and strongarm tactics ("don't you dare add something to our phone that we don't like else we'll brick your phone" etc etc...).

I really hope the open source Andoid OS kicks the carpet away from under Apple's feet because it would be a very bad day for _all_ punters if Apple gained the kind of near-monopoly they currently enjoy in the MP3 player market.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2008)

Yes I agree. Ive yet to see enough evidence to believe the competition have actually got the point about UI & usability yet though, I really hope that changes. From a platform openness point of view I was far happier with the Nokia Internet Tablet N800, that wasnt a bad device, but the touch didnt feel right.

As for bricking, to be fair I think the devices that got bricked were due to the SIM network unlocking, rather than jailbreaking to run other apps, which didnt result in bricks unless people did it wrong. All the same Id rather the application stuff was not controlled by Apple, but they are gonna make loads of money out of the app store so I doubt they will change their ways.

Considering how many years I moaned at all the techniques the mobile carriers used to try to control the content & services on the devices, and make sure they got a share of all the money, I suppose I see all this Apple stuff as progress even though its still controlfreakery. I spent some years wondering if mobile networks were even going to allow phones that had wifi too, as such things might make them obsolete one day


----------



## paolo (Jul 11, 2008)

I'm really looking forward to Android. Some real competition for the iPhone will be good.


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2008)

Woo someone is selling a 'worlds tiniest violin' application in the app store for 59p. I just bought it, and will play a song for Apple in their time of woe


----------



## Gromit (Jul 11, 2008)

elbows said:


> Woo someone is selling a 'worlds tiniest violin' application in the app store for 59p. I just bought it, and will play a song for Apple in their time of woe


 
Any good?


----------



## elbows (Jul 11, 2008)

Dont know yet, I got lots of apps at the same time and its taking a while to transfer them. I dont have high hopes, its not a real violin, just plays one of 3 different violin tunes to indicate insincere empathy. I paid the 59p as I think the idea deserves a few pence 

My my, Some of the games that developers are expecting people to pay for look pretty ropey - Im getting flashbacks to the cascade 50 tape for the ZX Spectrum.


----------



## paolo (Jul 12, 2008)

elbows said:


> Dont know yet, I got lots of apps at the same time and its taking a while to transfer them. I dont have high hopes, its not a real violin, just plays one of 3 different violin tunes to indicate insincere empathy. I paid the 59p as I think the idea deserves a few pence
> 
> My my, Some of the games that developers are expecting people to pay for look pretty ropey - Im getting flashbacks to the cascade 50 tape for the ZX Spectrum.



"Horace goes queuing?" 

The early days of this kind of stuff will certainly mean there are some atrocities out there. In a month or two, we'll have a better idea of what's worth having. 800 apps... my guess is that there'll be perhaps 50 worth a look. Can't wait to start playing.


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 12, 2008)

Still can't bloody get any.  I'm cursed.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jul 12, 2008)

Grr. I have to pay six quid for the 2.0 software upgrade? Which does nothing other than _allow me to pay them more money for the privilege of downloading apps_? Oh, and stop the annoying "why not download Software Update 2.0" screen appearing every time I plug the iPod in. Fuckers.

I'm off to get my iPod cracked.


----------



## elbows (Jul 12, 2008)

Yeah probably only Apple could get away with charging for a software upgrade that is necessary to be able to buy more apps from them. Its a bit crazy, I think they want to make the iphone appear to be better value than the ipod touch.

Im currently miffed because back in March I was lead to believe that there would be SVG and fullscreen support for browser, and I was going to make some webapps using these, but these features do not appear to have made it into final 2.0 release.

The worlds tiniest violin app was even worse than I anticipated. Bejeweled 2 and the itunes remote are good though.


----------



## monsterbunny (Jul 14, 2008)

£6?  How come?  Mine was free.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 14, 2008)

touch users have to pay for it due to some arcane US tax law.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2008)




----------



## Pingu (Jul 15, 2008)

I have just been offered a 16 gig one free

no change in my tarrif or contract 


all I had to do was moan a bit to O2 and say I was considering moving to vodafone


I have been with O2 though for about 15 years and obviously slotted nicely into one of their churn models

will be with me in about 3 weeks 

dunno what I am going to do with it though as it wont work in my carphone and I dont like carrying a large mobile

will probably give it to mrs pingu


----------



## dlx1 (Jul 15, 2008)

^ebay


----------



## Sunray (Jul 15, 2008)

Pingu said:


> I have just been offered a 16 gig one free
> 
> no change in my tarrif or contract
> 
> ...



Its not that large, its a bit larger than a normal candy bar phone, but thinner than my K800i. I was actually surprised how small it was, the pictures make it look a lot bigger than reality for some reason.

e2a: Just tried to order one as an upgrade my phone is wearing out but they don't have a queuing system.  Just have to go to ring the Apple/CPW/O2 shops for stock updates.


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 15, 2008)

Don't bother with Apple - they can't help upgraders, only new contracts.

Worth checking the o2 stores though - seems o2 got a shitload delivered today, loads of the backlog is being cleared from the online ordering shambles from last week.  Mine went from "in progress" to "completed" about an hour ago.  Set for delivery on Friday apparently - even have tracking number this time. 

So I'd expect stores to have stock tomorrow / thur, though how many - who knows...


----------



## paolo (Jul 15, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Its not that large, its a bit larger than a normal candy bar phone, but thinner than my K800i. I was actually surprised how small it was, the pictures make it look a lot bigger than reality for some reason.



Yep. To me it's thickness that's annoying. I find that if the device is slim, it can be quite a bit 'bigger' and still not be irritating to have shoved in a jean pocket. The only downside has been numerous panics, thinking I've lost my iPhone. In contrast, the 'small' Nokia I'm using at the moment, there's no doubt that I've got it. It looks really tiny, but it's about 1.5cm thick... so I always know I've got it.


----------



## paolo (Jul 15, 2008)

Pingu said:


> will probably give it to mrs pingu



She'd need to sign up with O2... or hack it, of course.


----------



## paolo (Jul 15, 2008)

Crispy said:


> touch users have to pay for it due to some arcane US tax law.



Sounds odd. Can't believe there is legislation requiring that software upgrades have to be charged for. How would all the open source stuff work?

Any more linkage on that Crispy?

edit: I should know to google these things... Looks like it's not strictly that it can't be done, but more to do with accounting practices / post Sarbox. Apparently. Haven't really googled enough to corroborate that.


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 15, 2008)

And US tax law surely doesn't apply to us?

It's just to make some money, surely?


----------



## paolo (Jul 15, 2008)

It effectively applies, because the US is where the revenue ends up.

As I'm reading it: You ship a product, declare revenues from said product. You can't then start doing things that cost money (e.g. adding features), and give them away, without restating the revenues, to include the costs of those extra things. So, you can either restate revenues, or charge, so that there is no 'missing money'.

(So Apple could have done it for free, but they'd have to declare to shareholders that the original declared profits would have to be retrospectively reduced)

Post Enron Sarbanes-Oxley stuff.


----------



## jæd (Jul 16, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> Grr. I have to pay six quid for the 2.0 software upgrade?



But you don't... If you don't want to upgrade to 2.0 then upgrade to the 1.1.5 firmware which is mostly bug fixes, and is free...

See : http://www.macrumors.com/2008/07/15/apple-releases-ipod-touch-1-1-5-firmware/


----------



## Structaural (Jul 16, 2008)

good Popular Mechanics article on the new iPhone:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/4273287.html


----------



## Crispy (Jul 16, 2008)

crap article, really. no battery life test, which is crucial.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 16, 2008)

Crispy said:


> crap article, really. no battery life test, which is crucial.



True, I hadn't quite finished watching it. Not up to Pop Mechs usual standards.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 16, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Don't bother with Apple - they can't help upgraders, only new contracts.
> 
> Worth checking the o2 stores though - seems o2 got a shitload delivered today, loads of the backlog is being cleared from the online ordering shambles from last week.  Mine went from "in progress" to "completed" about an hour ago.  Set for delivery on Friday apparently - even have tracking number this time.
> 
> So I'd expect stores to have stock tomorrow / thur, though how many - who knows...



O2 seem to have finally got on the ball with their own website, 25th of July is when they are going to re-open the online shop perhaps with some 16Gb versions.  No stock of the 16Gb version today.  Apple are idiots building more 8Gb versions than 16Gb versions.   16Gb cannot really be considered 'large' by anyone because it plays video.  You want some music on there and there are the Apps when they get going properly.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 16, 2008)

I'm on an iPhone birthday promise but I'll have to wait for restocks. I'm without a mobile, it's quite liberating.


----------



## Iam (Jul 16, 2008)

I found 8 giggers in stock earlier today, but no 16s.

I reckon by the time they're findable, bigger ones will be out.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2008)

Crispy said:


> crap article, really. no battery life test, which is crucial.


Here's Engadget's results. I wouldn't be surprised if they skewed it slightly in Apple's favour seeing as their iPhone fanboydon has been _completely off the scale_ recently:



> All tested with 3G on, WiFi on (not connected), Bluetooth off, no data fetching enabled (unless specified otherwise). Media tested with stock headphones, medium volume, and medium screen brightness, auto-brightness disabled.
> 
> * Music (continuous playback, large library, occasionally turning on screen): 31h 23m
> * Video (continuous playback, no push/fetch data): 7h 5m
> ...


But here's the crunch:


> Those numbers definitely are not bad, but if you're anything like us and you kill time on your phone reading feeds and checking email like a fiend, by 3 or 4pm you'll likely be wondering if you'll even make it home with any power left -- especially if you leave on the 3G.
> 
> Just be warned, the kind of prolonged usage on the original iPhone you used to get away with probably isn't possible with the iPhone 3G. For some, this may be an issue, while others may never notice.


Bizarrely they don't list the talk time, which is probably the most important bit for a lot of users.


----------



## paolo (Jul 16, 2008)

For me, it's the 'data use' time that's the number one thing. I do at least 4 hours a day. Talk time when out and about, in comparison, is minimal for me.

If they really got 6h 30m for 'data use', then I'd be very happy. But I can't see it - that's about what I got on the 2G fresh out of the box, and it's been down to about 4.5 hours of late.


----------



## elbows (Jul 16, 2008)

It is dumb of them not to include talk time. Apps, especially games, are also likely to cause battery complaints. Some 3D web stuff Ive been experimenting with on ipod touch is absolutely eating the battery.

Poor battery performance has annoyed the people at work who got Nokia N95's. These same people are now getting iphones, someone managed to get one yesterday from the Solihull Apple store, time will tell if the battery lets them down.

After playing round with web app development for 2.0, Im very excited, finally some evolution and the chance to develop stuff that turns out real nice. However the iphone clearly has some serious flaws and so I hope the UI goodness spreads to other platforms, I dont want to put my livelihood in Apple's hands for a start, but at least they cant reject web apps like they can native ones.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 16, 2008)

I reckon that that will be very similar to the Data use, take and data are all the same in the end, digital data.  Wonder where the test was done btw. 3G power is very sensitive to how far it is away from the base station its connected to, if its weak it will ramp up the power to compensate and down goes your connection time.

Anyway, power on the iPhone 3G is shit, I know its shit.  I'm not going to be racking up hours of browsing, so as long as it doesn't die in less than one day i reckon I'll be OK.  Need a desktop charger I think.


----------



## paolo (Jul 16, 2008)

For those of you thinking of upgrading, looks like you can get the following on ebay, for your 2G phone:

Used, Good Condition, Unhacked.
- 8gb: £200
- 16gb: £300

The numbers above are 'typical', although there's the occasional auctions going up to £100 over that.

About £50 more for BNIB.
And about £50 more for unlocked.


----------



## paolo (Jul 16, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I reckon that that will be very similar to the Data use, take and data are all the same in the end, digital data.



I'd expect Talk to be longer really - display shuts down, which is quite big power draw.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 16, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> I'd expect Talk to be longer really - display shuts down, which is quite big power draw.



Ahh, didn't think of that, yes quite a bit longer.  That screen is probably the biggest power draw of the device.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> I'd expect Talk to be longer really - display shuts down, which is quite big power draw.


 
I think i read somewhere that there is a difference between 3G talktime and 2G talktime. So if you turn 3G off you get longer.


----------



## paolo (Jul 16, 2008)

Marius said:


> I think i read somewhere that there is a difference between 3G talktime and 2G talktime. So if you turn 3G off you get longer.



Yes also true.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> If they really got 6h 30m for 'data use', then I'd be very happy. But I can't see it - that's about what I got on the 2G fresh out of the box, and it's been down to about 4.5 hours of late.


Like I said, I'd take it with a pinch of  salt as it comes from the #1 Apple fanboy tech site, Engadget, who seemed to lose all sense of objectivity about iPhone matters a long time ago.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 16, 2008)

Here's a better source:

http://gizmodo.com/5025309/round-up-nine-iphone-3g-battery-life-test-results

9 battery test results.


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 16, 2008)

If you live in a patchy 3G area, the battery life is supposed to be excerable due to it constantly trying to find a signal.  Same as on other phones, except this also has one mother of a display to power too.

Palpable excitement at Chez Dogmatique, as I recieved my new 3G 16gigger today, and more importantly, Ms Dogmatique gets her hands on my old "classic" (snigger, yes, that's what they're calling it) iPhone.

Needless to say, she can't wait for her sim to be activated with the iPhone tarrif tomorrow afternoon, so I'm having to go through the jailbreak process for one evening only.

Gotta keep the lady happy, eh?

As for the new one - well, obviously there's little difference apart from the new scratchy / smudgy back and 3G and GPS.

The display does have the yellow tinge instead of blue, but it does make images / icons a bit more colourful rather than cold, but it's a minor difference.

I can report that the GPS signal (so far) has proved to be extremely snappy compared with the N95 - a few seconds from a cold start.  Shame there's no turn-by-turn software yet.

Web pages on 3G aren't revolutionary in their loading time, but they are most definately significantly faster as one would expect.

I would tentatively say that the software needs a good tweak, as I've noticed relatively sluggish response at times for contacts and typing.

This is the same on the "classic" (snigger) though, so it's definately the 2.0 software.

As the advert says, it's the iPhone we were waiting for last year - no great woops here.


----------



## paolo (Jul 16, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Here's a better source:
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5025309/round-up-nine-iphone-3g-battery-life-test-results
> 
> 9 battery test results.



The spread of results there looks more realistic. For my needs it looks _just about_ tolerable. Might have to buy another USB cable so I can plug in at my (currently non-existent) desk.

Sort of related, iFixit's dismantle revealed a battery part number that, when googled, shows (from a single source, so unverified) that the 'new' battery is 1150mAh, down on the 1400mAh of the 2G, and indeed lower than the N95 8GB. Hmm; bit disappointing.

I wonder how much more punch they could have got by adding a few more mils to the case? Pointless to speculate I guess. I'll probably take the plunge anyway. At the moment there isn't really any alternative for browsing (apart from staying with the 2G of course).


----------



## paolo (Jul 16, 2008)

Interesting stuff dog...

*The display does have the yellow tinge instead of blue, but it does make images / icons a bit more colourful rather than cold, but it's a minor difference.*

Quite a few people are reporting that.


*I can report that the GPS signal (so far) has proved to be extremely snappy compared with the N95 - a few seconds from a cold start.*

I believe that could be down it being A-GPS. Where it uses other methods (e.g. antennae triangulation) to determine a far more limited number of satellites to hunt for.


*Shame there's no turn-by-turn software yet.*

For the benefit of non-users, this means 'automated guidance', e.g. position tracking, route-recalculation, voice prompting etc. (The google maps app will give a list of turns, but not do all of that other stuff that is the essence of a proper driving sat nav).

It'll be interesting to see what happens here. Development of automated guidance is expressly forbidden in the dev agreement. So either Apple are going to do it themselves, or they are going to license the 'authorisation' to develop to someone else, and take a hefty chunk of revenue either way.


*I would tentatively say that the software needs a good tweak, as I've noticed relatively sluggish response at times for contacts and typing.*

Slower than the 1.x software then, by the sounds of it?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 16, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Sort of related, iFixit's dismantle revealed a battery part number that, when googled, shows (from a single source, so unverified) that the 'new' battery is 1150mAh, down on the 1400mAh of the 2G, and indeed lower than the N95 8GB. Hmm; bit disappointing.


 
I wondered how they were dropping the price. The plastic back was alone wasn't funding it. 

A less powerful and therefore cheaper battery though 

I wouldn't mind so much if you could swap em easily in and out but for a sealed unit thats not good news.

I was hoping for a stronger battery than the 2G not a weaker one. I'm now considering holding onto my 2G with longer battery life as I hammer the phone on data use.


----------



## paolo (Jul 16, 2008)

Marius said:


> I wondered how they were dropping the price. The plastic back was alone wasn't funding it.
> 
> A less powerful and therefore cheaper battery though



More expensive in the US (in real terms), so I'm not sure whether you can attribute the battery to the price.



> I wouldn't mind so much if you could swap em easily in and out but for a sealed unit thats not good news.



The only improvement there, very very minor, and of no help in the 'daily life' issue, is that it's not soldered anymore.



> I was hoping for a stronger battery than the 2G not a weaker one. I'm now considering holding onto my 2G with longer battery life as I hammer the phone on data use.



I was hoping that they'd have at least balanced it all out, to get the same battery life. I hammer mine on data use too.


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 16, 2008)

Good thing this also arrived this morning coincidentally by all accounts...







Yep, definately some sluggishness compared to the 1.... software.

Other little design quirks - The screen and bezel are separated by slightly more than 1MM, with what looks like a recessed rubber seal underneath, which gives enough space for your fingernail.  this will certainly fill up with smeg.

Not decided whether that's a design flaw or a concious attempt to keep the glass separated from the shell in the event of a drop to hard surface.

Also, the screen is no longer attached directly to the glass - there's a discernable gap, which gives the screen a slightly more reflective / window feeling.  Maybe that's another reason for the change from a blue emphasis to yellow in the LCD (which Apple are claiming is deliberate, not a "known issue").

Won't know how awful the battery life is till I've used it over the next few days.  Can't make a decent prediction as 3G coverage is patchy all over London, especially in it's Southern hill and dale environs.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 17, 2008)

Interesting reports.

I await more longer term usage info.


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2008)

> Engadget: *5:24 (video playback)*
> "We managed just 5 hours and 24 minutes of continuous playback of our 320 x 176, H.264 video encoded at 127kbps. (Our tests were conducted with the screen at half brightness, half volume, with Apple's stock headphones, WiFi on, but not connected, Bluetooth off, 3G and cellular radios on, and location services on — pretty much all the defaults.)"


Why were they only playing back such a small video (320 x 176) on the iPhone's large screen ?


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 17, 2008)

No idea.  Too lazy to reformat from an ipod movie?

Wouldn't have made any difference (ie improved) to their results though I wouldn't have thought.


----------



## paolo (Jul 17, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Yep, definately some sluggishness compared to the 1.... software.



Interesting. Knowing that, I'll not upgrade my 2G straight off, so I can compare the two side by side.



> Other little design quirks - The screen and bezel are separated by slightly more than 1MM...
> 
> Not decided whether that's a design flaw or a concious attempt to keep the glass separated from the shell in the event of a drop to hard surface.
> 
> Also, the screen is no longer attached directly to the glass - there's a discernable gap, which gives the screen a slightly more reflective / window feeling.



Glass is now independently replaceable from screen. Previously, cracked glass meant whole new (quite pricey) screen/glass assembly, so the various facets you describe are part of deliberate design thing I'd say.


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Wouldn't have made any difference (ie improved) to their results though I wouldn't have thought.


Really? I would have thought that having to process, stream and display a far bigger movie with all those extra pixels would have definitely impacted on battery life.


----------



## paolo (Jul 17, 2008)

Or, alternatively, it's actually harder work (more CPU cycles) because it needs interpolation, rather than straight pixel mapping. It can be spun either way.


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Or, alternatively, it's actually harder work (more CPU cycles) because it needs interpolation, rather than straight pixel mapping. It can be spun either way.


Was the video interpolated to full screen?

Either way it seems a bit odd not to test the phone with a video the same size as the screen's resolution, no?


----------



## paolo (Jul 17, 2008)

editor said:


> Was the video interpolated to full screen?
> 
> Either way it seems a bit odd not to test the phone with a video the same size as the screen's resolution, no?



I think you're on a fishing trip, so do your own justification as to whether it's a fair test, an unfair test (in either direction), whether it was a deliberate fix etc etc.

(Personally I doubt it would change the numbers, but you feel you're onto something here, so run with it).


----------



## Sunray (Jul 17, 2008)

I'm assuming that the iPhone has a hardware H.264 decoder because its very CPU intensive and I doubt that the ARM11 CPU would be up to it on its own.  Either way something is going to be running full tilt to decode a H.264 stream.  That has battery life implications.


----------



## jæd (Jul 17, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Or, alternatively, it's actually harder work (more CPU cycles) because it needs interpolation, rather than straight pixel mapping. It can be spun either way.



Ideally you'd test with a range of videos... But then I'd look at at range of different results from different websites. rather than relying on one.

IMO, Endgaget isn't exactly the most scientifically rigorous website when it comes it testing. But then what do you expect from a blogging site that is mostly recycled press releases...?


----------



## paolo (Jul 17, 2008)

I've just started having a look at what's new in 2.0. There's quite a few subtle little improvements, including...

... screen grabs! Hold 'Home', then press the power button... They go into the photo library. I then sent it straight to flickr.


----------



## paolo (Jul 17, 2008)

Monkey Ball... it uses the accelerometer, so you tilt to control the character. Not sure I like this particular game, but it shows some potential as a gaming platform...


----------



## paolo (Jul 17, 2008)

Prettier version of Shazam (the core functionality - listening to and identifying tunes - is available on any phone).


----------



## Sunray (Jul 17, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Monkey Ball... it uses the accelerometer, so you tilt to control the character. *Not sure I like this particular game*, but it shows some potential as a gaming platform...



WHAT!!!

*Adds Palo to his hit list*


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2008)

paolo999 said:


>


Does that come with a microscope?!!

I'm impressed with the screen res and rendering (way better than my 'umble phone), but those buttons at the bottom look a bit ugly for an Apple design, no?


----------



## paolo (Jul 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> WHAT!!!
> 
> *Adds Palo to his hit list*



I should have added that I'm not a gamer, so my opinion on that doesn't count for much. 

e2a... thinking about buying Crash Bandicoot... have you got it? Worth it?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Does that come with a microscope?!!


 
Its a shame that most bulletin boards aren't designed with the iPhone in mind.

The" 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




  " on Urban is easy to select with a mouse. 

With a big fat finger you need to zoom in on it first else you end up selecting something else nearby 8 times out of 10.


----------



## paolo (Jul 18, 2008)

editor said:


> those buttons at the bottom look a bit ugly for an Apple design, no?



They're fairly minimalist! But I like that. It doesn't distract from the content you want to read.

(Conversely, I really hate MS approach to base UI elements cos' there's always bloody branding on the screen - if only in the Start button - and, by default, garish colours too.)


----------



## paolo (Jul 18, 2008)

Marius said:


> Its a shame that most bulletin boards aren't designed with the iPhone in mind.
> 
> The"
> 
> ...



I can just about hit it unzoomed, about 80% of the time. Annoying when I miss though, cos' then it's a rather dull back-reload job. Second attempt, I'll always zoom.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2008)

Marius said:


> Its a shame that most bulletin boards aren't designed with the iPhone in mind.


Why should 'most boards' be designed for the truly microscopic percentage of iPhone users?

You can always use the stripped down skin option which works for the vast majority of mobile users.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 18, 2008)

editor said:


> Why should 'most boards' be designed for the truly microscopic percentage of iPhone users?
> 
> You can always use the stripped down skin option which works for the vast majority of mobile users.


 
Didn't say they should.

Just that as a iPhone user its a shame they aren't.

According to this article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7508842.stm

maybe one day they will be, when the mouse is dead and pointy pointy fingers is the norm.

(ALthough i suspect FPS games will keep the mouse alive)


----------



## paolo (Jul 18, 2008)

OMG... Remote is bloody brilliant! (All iPod functionality, exact same UI, but controlling iTunes on your computer... works a treat!)

Admittedly I'm normally sat in front of the PC when I've got music on, but it's very impressive.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 18, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> OMG... Remote is bloody brilliant! (All iPod functionality, exact same UI, but controlling iTunes on your computer... works a treat!)
> 
> Admittedly I'm normally sat in front of the PC when I've got music on, but it's very impressive.



I love Remote. I have my computer set up through my telly. So controlling iTunes from the sofa with an easy interface is a joy. 

Also as it's wireless and not infrared no line of sight needed. Scare your friends by starting scary music in the room they are in whilst you are upstairs 

Just wish I had wireless speakers in my bedroom connected to the computer downstairs now


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2008)

Marius said:


> According to this article:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7508842.stm
> 
> maybe one day they will be, when the mouse is dead and pointy pointy fingers is the norm.


I'd happily put a tenner down on the mouse being alive and well in 3-5 years!


----------



## Gromit (Jul 18, 2008)

editor said:


> I'd happily put a tenner down on the mouse being alive and well in 3-5 years!



Me too tbh. The author has forgotten business use for starters. Our lot begrudge paying for mice let alone fancy devices.


----------



## paolo (Jul 18, 2008)

Bloomberg have done a nice job of their freebie...


----------



## paolo (Jul 18, 2008)

(I'll stop soon I promise  )

Now this is nice. Location aware Google search client:







So then you tap the "near me" option, and (of course), you are straight into...


----------



## Crispy (Jul 18, 2008)

none of your pics are working paolo!


----------



## jæd (Jul 18, 2008)

Marius said:


> Me too tbh. The author has forgotten business use for starters. Our lot begrudge paying for mice let alone fancy devices.



Tell your employer you've got RSI, and you'll have a "fancy device" pretty fast. Ergonmically, mice are terrible...! IMO, trackballs are much better if you're using a pointing device 8 hours a day...


----------



## paolo (Jul 18, 2008)

Crispy said:


> none of your pics are working paolo!



Should be ok now. (Looks like flickr remapped the pic locations overnight.)


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> (I'll stop soon I promise  )
> 
> Now this is nice. Location aware Google search client:


But just about all users of Google Maps can do that already, no? What's the difference?

The best location services gizmo I saw was on the Treo 500 on Vodafone where you could get updated "what's on" listings of gigs/restaurants/cinemas etc closest to you.


----------



## jæd (Jul 18, 2008)

editor said:


> But just about all users of Google Maps can do that already, no? What's the difference?



Because its all in one app with more sophisticated searching, rather than switching between a browser and the Google Maps App...?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 18, 2008)

Yeah, not quite sure how that's an improvement on the existing maps app, which has business search already built in?


----------



## jæd (Jul 18, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, not quite sure how that's an improvement on the existing maps app, which has business search already built in?



Ease-of-use, etc...


----------



## Crispy (Jul 18, 2008)

What ease of use? This is a duplicate of the existing functionality.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2008)

jæd said:


> Because its all in one app with more sophisticated searching, rather than switching between a browser and the Google Maps App...?


Doesn't look particularly more "sophisticated" on what's already available on other platforms to me. Either way you end up in Google Maps, so what's the difference? 

The Vodafone app, however, was far more impressive.


----------



## jæd (Jul 18, 2008)

Crispy said:


> What ease of use? This is a duplicate of the existing functionality.



Ease-of-use by centralising functions, giving them a common front-end, having one icon to press... Probably something you need to use before you see the advantage...


----------



## paolo (Jul 18, 2008)

The Google client is a refinement, not new functionality per se. I think it's a step in the right direction, to having a single jump off point for search. This ought to include email search too (although just gmail would be fine for me personally, so I can avoid having to use the google web UI - which although it works fine - isn't as sweet as proper app). And also, I'd like it show the regular web search results using the App UI - rather than a standard html rendered list as the current Google App does.

So, scope for alot more I think, but maybe a step in the right direction.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> So, scope for alot more I think, but maybe a step in the right direction.


If Apple included the device-wide, all-apps text search seen on the Palm (which is _incredibly_ useful) and the full location based services of Vodafone's 3G offering, I'd get a lot more interested.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 18, 2008)

All apps text search? I had no idea! Where's that then?

(Hopefully, Spotlight will make its way onto the iphone from the desktop version of OSX)


----------



## jæd (Jul 18, 2008)

editor said:


> If Apple included the device-wide, all-apps text search seen on the Palm (which is _incredibly_ useful)



There is...?  Don't remember that from my 650.  Yep, Spotlight for Iphone would be handy...



editor said:


> ...and the full location based services of Vodafone's 3G offering, I'd get a lot more interested.



Not hard to implement using the SDK...


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2008)

Crispy said:


> All apps text search? I had no idea! Where's that then?
> 
> (Hopefully, Spotlight will make its way onto the iphone from the desktop version of OSX)


Hit the 'option' key and the one with the magnifying glass (the shift key on my phone) and you can search all text on your Palm.

I've done a quick test and it searched Agendus, Life Balance, NoteStudio, Documents To Go (so all Word/Office docs - well handy), Pics and videos, contacts calendar, tasks, Splash ID and even Google Maps.


----------



## paolo (Jul 18, 2008)

editor said:


> ...device-wide...



Yes, though I'd go a step further and say 'services-wide'. There's times I really need to search my whole gmail account, all 1.5 gig of it.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 18, 2008)

Hmm anyone know how long till version 2.1 of the iPhone software is out cause I'm finding my iPhone increasingly sluggish and buggy. The number of times I've crashed out of Safari recently. Keyboad lag which makes it unusable. The Screen  somrtimes jumping around whilst I type, that never happened before. Maginiying glass non showing the text line thingie. 

I like having aps but the side effects of 2.0 are horrid. Is it cause Iid on a classic phone?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 18, 2008)

Oh and all these new data users are clogging up he edge server damn their eyes. It's my server, I was ere first.


----------



## jæd (Jul 18, 2008)

Marius said:


> Hmm anyone know how long till version 2.1 of the iPhone software is out cause I'm finding my iPhone increasingly sluggish and buggy. The number of times I've crashed out of Safari recently. Keyboad lag which makes it unusable. The Screen  somrtimes jumping around whilst I type, that never happened before. Maginiying glass non showing the text line thingie.
> 
> I like having aps but the side effects of 2.0 are horrid. Is it cause Iid on a classic phone?



Mines fine... Sounds like a duff phone...


----------



## Sunray (Jul 18, 2008)

The new phone is 3g, it does not use Edge so who knows whats happening to your local base station.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 18, 2008)

It will drop back to Edge if 3G can't be found.


----------



## nick (Jul 18, 2008)

Re palm search:
Maybe functionality is better in new versions of Palm, but (for reasons I have now forgotten) I installed Findhack on my Clie TH55
http://www.florentpillet.com/

It allows search to be limited to certain applications, or to cover everything.

Full search on an iphone has to be made of win - if I understand correctly, as it currently stands, you can't search phone book for a number, or a note attached to a contact.
Since Apple and google seem to be buddies, perhaps an iphone version of google desktop might be easy to write, in the absence of finder?


----------



## paolo (Jul 18, 2008)

Marius said:


> I like having aps but the side effects of 2.0 are horrid. Is it cause Iid on a classic phone?



I'm using 2.0 on the 2G aswell. Seems fine so far.

I've not really used Safari in anger yet, but typing seems the same. Less smooth scrolling, but very marginal.


----------



## jæd (Jul 18, 2008)

nick said:


> Full search on an iphone has to be made of win - if I understand correctly, as it currently stands, you can't search phone book for a number, or a note attached to a contact.



2.0 allows you to search the contacts list...



nick said:


> Since Apple and google seem to be buddies, perhaps an iphone version of google desktop might be easy to write, in the absence of finder?



Since Apple already have Spotlight, this is unlikely...


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 18, 2008)

I'm out and about now, and have been all day, using web and maps and I've had to charge it twice with the mobile battery device thing. Really bad.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> I'm out and about now, and have been all day, using web and maps and I've had to charge it twice with the mobile battery device thing. Really bad.


Ouch! That really sucks.


----------



## Disaster (Jul 18, 2008)

I just bought myself one of these, and I have to say, I'm competely bowled over.

I still can't understand any of the iPhone jargon yet. I've upgraded from a Nokia 8210


----------



## elbows (Jul 18, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> I'm out and about now, and have been all day, using web and maps and I've had to charge it twice with the mobile battery device thing. Really bad.



Can you give any value estimates for how long you spent web browsing, using the maps, and performing other tasks?

Battery life woes are the downside of devices with larger, bright screens & a fair amount of cpu/3d power and animated UI, that really spoils the joy of devices.

Still as the massive change in battery performance from v 1.xx.x nokia N95 firmware to v 2.xx suggests that the art of decent programming can make a big difference to battery life. A few misbehaving drivers or badly written code can drain battery quick, I hope this is the case rather than something more fundamental like screen, cpu, gpu power requirements.

Didnt Steve Jobs mention bad battery life as one reason for avoiding 3G when he first announced the original iPhone?


----------



## editor (Jul 19, 2008)

I heard from another iPhone-owning urbanite tonight that the battery life was shocking too.

There's not much point having a cool looking phone if it doesn't last the day really.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 19, 2008)

editor said:


> I heard from another iPhone-owning urbanite tonight that the battery life was shocking too.
> 
> There's not much point having a cool looking phone if it doesn't last the day really.


 
It lasts aaaages if you use it like a phone.

The thing is i use it like a laptop.

Compared to my laptop the battery life is awesome.

Talking about the 2G though. I'm seriously worried about how long a 3G would last me.


----------



## paolo (Jul 19, 2008)

Yep. I bought mine to use for solid browsing, because I didn't want to haul a laptop + batteries on a looong commute. I get about five hours use, and over a working day it just about lasts. Similarly, I'm a bit worried about the battery life on the 3G... I guess I can always take a cable to work with me, which is still more convenient than a non-phone alternative. Netbooks are very cute, but they don't have that 'browse with one hand when standing' (e.g. on a rammed bus) thing.

(I find myself using mine at home too... If only because my vista laptop is soooo shite when it comes to booting up and stabilising)

Having hafld to without it for a week, I'm bowled over again  and with that, I'm off to watch some telly. The video quality on the BBC iPlayer is luuuush


----------



## jæd (Jul 19, 2008)

Marius said:


> It lasts aaaages if you use it like a phone.
> 
> The thing is i use it like a laptop.
> 
> ...



Switch to push based email, and I've found that the battery life goes up significantly...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 19, 2008)

editor said:


> I heard from another iPhone-owning urbanite tonight that the battery life was shocking too.
> 
> There's not much point having a cool looking phone if it doesn't last the day really.



Maybe someone will create the iPhone equivalent of that Palm app that lets you regulate your battery use?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 19, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Yep. I bought mine to use for solid browsing, because I didn't want to haul a laptop + batteries on a looong commute. I get about five hours use, and over a working day it just about lasts. Similarly, I'm a bit worried about the battery life on the 3G... I guess I can always take a cable to work with me, which is still more convenient than a non-phone alternative. Netbooks are very cute, but they don't have that 'browse with one hand when standing' (e.g. on a rammed bus) thing.
> 
> (I find myself using mine at home too... If only because my vista laptop is soooo shite when it comes to booting up and stabilising)
> 
> Having hafld to without it for a week, I'm bowled over again  and with that, I'm off to watch some telly. The video quality on the BBC iPlayer is luuuush



I thought that the iPlayer was flash? How are you getting that to work on the iPhone?


----------



## paolo (Jul 19, 2008)

They've done an iPhone specific version - go to www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer - it will auto detect. Wifi/streaming only though.


----------



## The Groke (Jul 20, 2008)

Well i nearly succumbed and bought a 3G iPhone the other day.

I am a big Mac fan/Apple user and my HTC Touch Dual is really starting to piss me off (clunky, buggy WM piece of poop) , so it was the obvious next step.

Thing is, I am more of a "business user" than anything else and a great quality phone along with Exchange Activsync support, good battery life and a decent QWERTY keyboard are probably the most important things for me - the multi-media functionality is less of a sell.

Oddly then for me, I went with my head rather than my heart and I have ordered a Nokia E71, having played with one yesterday and been really, really impressed.

My last Symbian Nokia was clunky and unresponsive and didn't have any sort of decent enterprise mail support out of the box - the E71 fixes all of these problems and adds a big wodge of extra goodness to boot.


Battery is good, full physical QWERTY works very well, great build quality and materials and overall I was really impressed.

New toy should arrive tomorrow - sorry Apple.


----------



## nick (Jul 20, 2008)

Bought one - having a play.

One annoyance I have found is that, when I plug it into docking stations it tells me the accessory isn't supported and refuses to charge while it is in the dock - although it does play. This is the case on: Denon S52, a griffin FM transmitter and a JBL sound dock


----------



## Gromit (Jul 20, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> The video quality on the BBC iPlayer is luuuush


 


Sunray said:


> I thought that the iPlayer was flash? How are you getting that to work on the iPhone?


 
BBC switches to Quicktime if you are using an iPhone. The video quality is indeed astounding.
Just watched a documentary on Hadrian on it from my bed as I was too lazy to get up. Well impressed.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 20, 2008)

nick said:


> Bought one - having a play.
> 
> One annoyance I have found is that, when I plug it into docking stations it tells me the accessory isn't supported and refuses to charge while it is in the dock - although it does play. This is the case on: Denon S52, a griffin FM transmitter and a JBL sound dock



Must have a new interface which is very annoying.


----------



## paolo (Jul 20, 2008)

iPlayer (screen grab I did, from the phone):


----------



## Crispy (Jul 20, 2008)

iplayer in bed sounds pretty good really


----------



## jæd (Jul 20, 2008)

Crispy said:


> iplayer in bed sounds pretty good really



There's also a way around so you download the iPlayer videos for other devices. Check the iPlayer thread for details...


----------



## Disaster (Jul 20, 2008)

editor said:


> I heard from another iPhone-owning urbanite tonight that the battery life was shocking too.
> 
> There's not much point having a cool looking phone if it doesn't last the day really.



The battery needs charging on mine at the end of each day after about 20 minutes of playing music and 2 minutes of calling. 

I'm massively disappointed.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 20, 2008)

Disaster said:


> The battery needs charging on mine at the end of each day after about 20 minutes of playing music and 2 minutes of calling.
> 
> I'm massively disappointed.



That sounds like a faulty unit to me.


----------



## Disaster (Jul 20, 2008)

Marius said:


> That sounds like a faulty unit to me.



I think I might have voided the Apple warranty by having it unlocked from AT&T. I've been using a t-mobile sim since the day I bought it. I'd look like an absolute moron if I were to walk into an Apple store and be told I had voided my warranty after a week of ownership 

I guess I'll have to make do.


----------



## paolo (Jul 21, 2008)

Marius said:


> That sounds like a faulty unit to me.



sounds totally duff. I was annoyed when mine went down from seven hours use to about four-ish.


----------



## jæd (Jul 21, 2008)

Disaster said:


> I think I might have voided the Apple warranty by having it unlocked from AT&T. I've been using a t-mobile sim since the day I bought it. I'd look like an absolute moron if I were to walk into an Apple store and be told I had voided my warranty after a week of ownership
> 
> I guess I'll have to make do.



Its a duff unit... You might be able to Restore it to 2.0, though...


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 21, 2008)

After Friday's poor battery life, I drained the battery right down and charged it twice.  Haven't charged it since Sunday 2pm, and it's still 4/5 full, with about 20 mins voice calls, a half hour of web browsing a bit of GPS, and a half hour of iplayer at bedtime...

Seems like conditioning the battery a bit helps... I'd only had it a day on Thursday.

We'll see how it gets on.


----------



## Debord (Jul 21, 2008)

nick said:


> Bought one - having a play.
> 
> One annoyance I have found is that, when I plug it into docking stations it tells me the accessory isn't supported and refuses to charge while it is in the dock - although it does play. This is the case on: Denon S52, a griffin FM transmitter and a JBL sound dock



have you tried putting it in flight mode?


----------



## nick (Jul 21, 2008)

Debord said:


> have you tried putting it in flight mode?



just given it a go, but still get "This accessory is not designed to work with iphone"

thanks for the suggestion though


----------



## Gromit (Jul 21, 2008)

The new google ap is quite nice. 

Seaches contacts and the web.


----------



## nick (Jul 21, 2008)

Marius said:


> The new google ap is quite nice.
> 
> Seaches contacts and the web.


Agree it's nice. It's. Faster than contacts itself (I have a couple of thousand), but it still only searches names and not notes or numbers


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 21, 2008)

Marius said:


> The new google ap is quite nice.
> 
> Seaches contacts and the web.



What's that then?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 21, 2008)

I see that the 8Gb model is now readily available, the initial stock shortage was somewhat manufactured by the looks of things.  No such thing as bad publicity, something O2 seem to have exploited to the max.

When the 16Gb version comes into stock, i'll get one.


----------



## tarannau (Jul 22, 2008)

Jeez.  I can hardly wait. If I have to hear you whinge on any more...


----------



## Gromit (Jul 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I see that the 8Gb model is now readily available, the initial stock shortage was somewhat manufactured by the looks of things.  No such thing as bad publicity, something O2 seem to have exploited to the max.
> 
> When the 16Gb version comes into stock, i'll get one.



O2 website says 16gb arriving on the 25th. This Friday.
I'll be asking how many the store got. If it's more than the 3 they got on launch day then the proof is conclusive.


----------



## monsterbunny (Jul 22, 2008)

Anyone else having problems with the old iPhone since the firmware update?  I hardly ever get EDGE now, just a GPRS signal and the screen has become less responsive.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 22, 2008)

Yes me. I mention the screen issue previously. Considering doing a factory reset and reinstalling. Need to back everything up first though.


----------



## monsterbunny (Jul 22, 2008)

If that's what it takes to get Edge back then I'll do the same.  You thinking of upgrading to the newer model?


----------



## elbows (Jul 22, 2008)

Marius said:


> If it's more than the 3 they got on launch day then the proof is conclusive.



Oh I dont know, if they didnt have the firmware ready till very shortly before launch, it would have caused some supply issues. But yeah, artificial scarcity does seem to be a marketing technique these days.

Meanwhile fresh rumors about Steve Jobs health have not helped Apple's share price:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jul/22/stevejobs.apple


----------



## Iam (Jul 22, 2008)

Vodafone have finally agreed to change my attrocious (and broken) v1520 work phone for something else, so I may not bother now, and just get an updated Touch when they're released.


----------



## jæd (Jul 22, 2008)

elbows said:


> Oh I dont know, if they didnt have the firmware ready till very shortly before launch, it would have caused some supply issues. But yeah, artificial scarcity does seem to be a marketing technique these days.



I'm still trying to work out this one. By stifling shipments you sell more...? Can you explain in greater detail...? Dunno about you but because the 3G iPhone is quite rare I'm not going to buy until its less hassle getting one.

Isn't an easier + simple (Occams Razor) explanation that they don't have many units (due to a rush-job) and are just trying to make as many as they can go around... 



elbows said:


> Meanwhile fresh rumors about Steve Jobs health have not helped Apple's share price:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jul/22/stevejobs.apple



Hmm... Profits up 31 %, but the CEO looking a bit peaky. Obviously course for doom'n'gloom. Though pundits have to write traffic generating stories though...


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2008)

jæd said:


> I'm still trying to work out this one. By stifling shipments you sell more...?


You've never heard of the marketing process of artificially restricting supply to create demand?



> 2. Retailers are benefiting in extra store traffic, as people come to check to see if they have it available. So, even if they lose potential sales of this device, they probably make up much more in sales to people who are in the store looking for one. Perhaps the retailers are paying Nintendo not to ship them to the US?


http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/04/19/we-want-a-wii-still/


----------



## jæd (Jul 22, 2008)

editor said:


> You've never heard of the marketing process of artificially restricting supply to create demand?



That's a link to a blog which is trying determine the reason for Nintendo not being able to satisfy demand. If you read further, it appears that Nintendo were producing them as fast as possible at the time. 

Apple have a web page that shows the status of shipments, so I don't buy the argument that people will buy something while they're in the Apple store. When I was looking for a Wii, I just called around. Once I was in a store and they didn't have it so I went to the next store on the list...

So, I'd still go with Occams Razor with the iPhone, even though Big Evil Apple stopping shipments sounds more interesting.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 22, 2008)

jæd said:


> Apple have a web page that shows the status of shipments



Linky pls?


----------



## jæd (Jul 22, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Linky pls?



http://www.apple.com/uk/retail/iphone/availability.html


----------



## Kanda (Jul 22, 2008)

jæd said:


> http://www.apple.com/uk/retail/iphone/availability.html



Cheers


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2008)

jæd said:


> That's a link to a blog which is trying determine the reason for Nintendo not being able to satisfy demand.


And it also explained a reason why a manufacturer/retailer might artificially restrict supply, a concept you seemed unable to grasp earlier.

I'm not saying that Apple/o2 are necessarily guilty of this, btw.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 22, 2008)

editor said:


> And it also explained a reason why a manufacturer/retailer might artificially restrict supply, a concept you seemed unable to grasp earlier.
> 
> I'm not saying that Apple/o2 are necessarily guilty of this, btw.


 
*spots the HIGNFY allegedly *

Seems like stock will be hitting stores on Thursday now. 
Carphone Warehouse will be emailing people who email their retail store email accounts.
O2 said they'd phone me.

No news though of how many and when on those days stock will arrive. i may have to slip away from work and then make up the difference as waiting till home time or lunchtime is likely to lead to disappointment i think.


----------



## jæd (Jul 22, 2008)

editor said:


> And it also explained a reason why a manufacturer/retailer might artificially restrict supply, a concept you seemed unable to grasp earlier.



Yes, I, know... But it doesn't quantify the reason and explain why this reason is more likely than the simpler explanation of there being insufficient stock...


----------



## Iam (Jul 22, 2008)

In which case, they massively underestimated, which is a bit shit, too.


----------



## nick (Jul 22, 2008)

Here's another annoyance (sorry to keep on raising bad things and not the good). 
 Although I like my shiny new toy, I thought that the "cloud" concept of mobile me would be the icing on the cake - allowing me to use the iphone more as a real time synced depository of contact and calendar info, without having to enter it on the phone.

Installed it last night - seems fine (I think).

However, I was very annoyed this morning to find that the web application doesn't work on Internet Explorer at all* which makes it a bit useless for me as I want to keep my info updated during the working day - and we have IE6 / IE7 only. This was something that they apparently forgot to mention in the "mobile me is great" video





* Yes I know that IE isn't compliant to standards, but if the majority of people (especially on corporate networks) use it, then for £70 I'd expect at least some atempt to make it work.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 22, 2008)

Hmm yeah. Must be annoying to install Safari on your PC for the use of just one web application.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 22, 2008)

That is utterly stupid not supporting IE.


----------



## nick (Jul 22, 2008)

They claim it works with Firefox as well (2 and 3). This is fine at home, but no good in a corporate environment where IE is more the norm and you just can't install what you want when you feel like it.


----------



## jæd (Jul 22, 2008)

nick said:


> However, I was very annoyed this morning to find that the web application doesn't work on Internet Explorer at all* which makes it a bit useless for me as I want to keep my info updated during the working day - and we have IE6 / IE7 only. This was something that they apparently forgot to mention in the "mobile me is great" video






			
				Apple said:
			
		

> MobileMe is accessible on the web via Safari® 3, *Internet Explorer 7*, and Firefox 2 or later.


http://www.apple.com/pr/library/2008/06/09mobileme.html


----------



## nick (Jul 22, 2008)

Yes, but I use IE6 at work, as do lots of people. Not through choice. It may be old, but it ain't exactly netscape navigator 4.5

If you use IE6 to enter .me it tells you that supported browsers are safari 2 and 3 and firefox 2 and 3.

I looked at threads on the support site and there are lots of complaints about IE7 not working properly (although some of them seem to be able to access some parts of it)


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2008)

nick said:


> Yes, but I use IE6 at work, as do lots of people. Not through choice. It may be old, but it ain't exactly netscape navigator 4.5


FYI: over 20% of the people accessing urban75 are using IE6.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 22, 2008)

To be fair Apple's rational is that if you aren't at home and a MobileMe user you are in fact Mobile. 

MobileMe is for those who can't use Enterprise at Work. If work aren't supporting your iPhone use at work then why should Apple? Especially if you have Mobile Safari and can support it how you please at home.

Still despite this leaving out a popular browser is just going to annoy a lot of home users too.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 22, 2008)

editor said:


> FYI: over 20% of the people accessing urban75 are using IE6.



Often wish I still had it. IE7 bugs me. Damn vista.


----------



## Iam (Jul 22, 2008)

editor said:


> FYI: over 20% of the people accessing urban75 are using IE6.



1 in 5 not concerned about security, or just frightened of change...

Or, have hacked copies of Windows they don't know how to update.


----------



## nick (Jul 22, 2008)

I'm a bit surprised that the percentage using IE6 is only 20% and am pleased that it is that low because I hate it. 
However, in my case, it is not through choice or laziness. The place I work, the roll out to XP / Office 2007, IE7, Citrix etc is a > 1 year project.

Apple must realise that they are annoying a lot of people, many people go to offices 5 days a week as well as logging on from home / starbucks/the bus etc: I want to be able to use the full sized keyboard that is in front of me for 8 hours a day to update my personal diary, contacts etc, not the touch screen. 

I'm kind of hoping that this is due to mobileme being a only released a couple of weeks ago and will be fixed in a future update. If not, I feel it is a bit short sighted of Apple:  IMO, they are going to win hearts and minds by letting people move to their products one step at a time, rather than forcing them into all or nothing scenarios

Ps Remember the furore about iplayer having to be made Safari compliant? The same ought to apply in the other direction.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 22, 2008)

Well, anyone who's had to work with IE6 will know that it isn't what you'd call standards compliant, and in this day and age I don't think it's unreasonable to phase it out for complex web apps. It _is_ ancient too.

However, I'm a bit pissed off with Apple on the MobileMe front, given that compatibility is actually pretty bloody limited generally - and that is just stupid for something that is supposed to be a web front-end to a service. Fine, if you're at a Windows PC (as long as it's been updated in the last year or two) you can use it and it's really nice, but you can't, say, from Linux, even with FF3, unless you spoof the user-agent - and it's just unusable on the Eee, which irritates me as I was initially very keen on the idea of being able to get my calendar and particularly my to-dos on that without having to have my Palm with me as well.

They're using some sort of really hardcore AJAX framework whose name I forget but which is pretty demanding, and they should have also had it gracefully degrade, even down to a form-based one.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 22, 2008)

IE8 is on the cards soon and that will make IE6 redundant because they are finally biting the standards bullet and making it as standards compliant as they can.

Hmm the beta is now available...  I'm going to install it to see...

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...C1-BD91-490B-86F5-F3652DD691DE&displaylang=en


----------



## jæd (Jul 22, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, anyone who's had to work with IE6 will know that it isn't what you'd call standards compliant, and in this day and age I don't think it's unreasonable to phase it out for complex web apps. It _is_ ancient too.



IE6 has been around since 2001, although projectoed EOL is until 2014 (EOL for Xp)  IMO, bumping people up to IE 2007 is not much of a problem. I wonder if other Web-Apps will follow suit. 



FridgeMagnet said:


> However, I'm a bit pissed off with Apple on the MobileMe front, given that compatibility is actually pretty bloody limited generally - and that is just stupid for something that is supposed to be a web front-end to a service. Fine, if you're at a Windows PC (as long as it's been updated in the last year or two) you can use it and it's really nice, but you can't, say, from Linux, even with FF3, unless you spoof the user-agent ...



Works fine on Firefox 3, with UA spoofing. Which takes a few seconds to do. I'm guessing its probably an oversight on Apple's part.



FridgeMagnet said:


> and it's just unusable on the Eee, which irritates me as I was initially very keen on the idea of being able to get my calendar and particularly my to-dos on that without having to have my Palm with me as well.



What's the highest version of Firefox it supports...?  Also, there's no note-syncing, so I'm not sure how useful it would be with a Eee.  



FridgeMagnet said:


> They're using some sort of really hardcore AJAX framework whose name I forget but which is pretty demanding, and they should have also had it gracefully degrade, even down to a form-based one.



Probably an update in a few months, I'd guess. Get the heavy lifting done first, and then see what user-demand there is for a cut-down version. Though knowing Apple, I wouldn't hold my breath...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 22, 2008)

MobileMe is supposed to be okay with FF2, which is what I have on the Eee. (I prefer Opera on it but I'm prepared to put up with FF if it's necessary.) It really isn't, though, even with user-agent spoofing - it will load, eventually, requiring a lot of clicking "continue" on "a script seems to have become unresponsive" popups, and the Eee isn't _that_ slow, and even when it does finally load it's often missing events, and the design is practically unusable on a small screen.

That's not amazingly odd, all told - superheavy AJAX sites like that can cause trouble in terms of both power and screen size (though I've used some fairly heavy ones before without trouble, Mindmeister for instance) - but the conclusion that I draw from that is that a web interface meant to be used when you're on the move shouldn't (just) have a superheavy AJAX interface.

I suppose Apple would want me to get an iPhone. Maybe they should put a bloody to-do app in then. Or maybe I'll just stick with the Palm, which syncs well locally and has terrific PIM functions.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I suppose Apple would want me to get an iPhone. Maybe they should put a bloody to-do app in then. Or maybe I'll just stick with the Palm, which syncs well locally and has terrific PIM functions.


As an aside, you can now use 8GB cards with your TX.


----------



## nick (Jul 22, 2008)

editor and Fridge said:


> JOIN US.




You're possibly right - Though I now have 18 months to make up my mind


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 22, 2008)

Battery update: After conditioning it a bit on Saturday, it hasn't required a charge since 2pm on Sunday, and that's with moderate browsing / video / voice / itunes.

Could well have made it another few hours, but I didn't want it to run out on the way home, so I've popped it on charge for a bit.

So that's 50 hours or so...


----------



## Iam (Jul 22, 2008)

nick said:


> The place I work, the roll out to XP / Office 2007, IE7, Citrix etc is a > 1 year project.



They're only just rolling out XP in the last year?


----------



## nick (Jul 22, 2008)

Yep 
I'm on win 2k and  Office 2k. We have an awful lot of legacy systems (many of which are bespoke) that aren't supported on newer versions. So an upgrade to Office 2007 for instance also requires a €1m investment in a newer version of Hyperion, which in turn needs new servers (based in Paris) etc etc

I'm living the dream


----------



## Crispy (Jul 22, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Battery update: After conditioning it a bit on Saturday, it hasn't required a charge since 2pm on Sunday, and that's with moderate browsing / video / voice / itunes.
> 
> Could well have made it another few hours, but I didn't want it to run out on the way home, so I've popped it on charge for a bit.
> 
> So that's 50 hours or so...


That's not too bad, and is about what I get on my treo.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2008)

Crispy said:


> That's not too bad, and is about what I get on my treo.


If you use Power Hero you can get a lot more! The 680 had the worst battery life of all the recent Treos, btw - the 650 with a 2400mAh battery would go on forever.

*sorry for the sidetrack.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 22, 2008)

After having the Razr mentioned in another thread made me think.

Notice how when phone companies release a new phone they release a bloke version first, silver then limited edition black in the case of the Razr.
With the Razr they then tried a smaller girlie version but discovered that the ordinary Razr in pink sold better.

With the iPhone we've started with Silver. Gone onto Black. I'm wondering how long till we get the full range of colours that iPods go to these days?

Why do they never target the we like pink phones market the same time as they launch the thing? With blues etc. following on after.


----------



## paolo (Jul 22, 2008)

Well, there is already the White iPhone - even harder to find than the regular one though


----------



## Iam (Jul 22, 2008)

nick said:


> Yep
> I'm on win 2k and  Office 2k. We have an awful lot of legacy systems (many of which are bespoke) that aren't supported on newer versions. So an upgrade to Office 2007 for instance also requires a €1m investment in a newer version of Hyperion, which in turn needs new servers (based in Paris) etc etc
> 
> I'm living the dream



Oh, if I had £1 for everytime I've heard a company say that.

Usually, just before I say "well, I'm sorry, but I don't think I'm prepared to take responsibility for your shit infrastructure"...


----------



## Gromit (Jul 22, 2008)

I work for an organisation that doesn't trust software that isn't 4 years out of date. Because new software doesn't have all the kinks worked out of it :rollseyes:


----------



## Iam (Jul 22, 2008)

I think it's number 1 in the "Big Book of Excuses for Not Spending Money on IT Infrastructure", to be honest.


----------



## paolo (Jul 23, 2008)

Ebay prices for 2G phones seem to be rising, based on the items I've been "watching". Looking now like 2nd hand 8gb's are going for £250-£300.

I'm assuming this is partly driven by the 3G shortage, i.e. fewer 'trade-ins' going into the market, so the prices are pumped right now. O2 is due a big load of stock this Friday, so after that I'd expect the price will drop to a more natural low: £150-£200.


----------



## elbows (Jul 25, 2008)

Rumor based on beta firmware that copy & paste are coming:

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/07/25/hints-at-iphone-copy-and-paste-in-firmware-2-1/


----------



## Kanda (Jul 25, 2008)

nick said:


> Yep
> I'm on win 2k and  Office 2k. We have an awful lot of legacy systems (many of which are bespoke) that aren't supported on newer versions. So an upgrade to Office 2007 for instance also requires a €1m investment in a newer version of Hyperion, which in turn needs new servers (based in Paris) etc etc
> 
> I'm living the dream



Ouch. We've just spent 1 mill on all new infrastructure after being like that for years.


----------



## Iam (Jul 25, 2008)

I caved and bought an 8GB.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 25, 2008)

I got a 16GB yesterday.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 25, 2008)

Iam said:


> I caved and bought an 8GB.


 
I'm determined not to cave and am hanging on for my 16gb.

its very much starting to piss me off though that stores are only getting them in drips and drabs of 4-6 phones at a time. Which are selling instantly.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 25, 2008)

Carphone Warehouse on Oxford St had 12 yesterday (16GB). Had 5 left at lunchtime.


----------



## Iam (Jul 25, 2008)

My biggest worry about the 8GB was using it as an iPod.

But then, 16GB isn't really big enough, either. I might just keep my Nano around (til it dies, anyway) as well. It's not like it's masses of pocket space.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 25, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Carphone Warehouse on Oxford St had 12 yesterday (16GB). Had 5 left at lunchtime.


 
Thats London though. Companies always treat London like royalty whilst the rest of the country gets shat upon. Can't upset the cockneys.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 25, 2008)

Iam said:


> My biggest worry about the 8GB was using it as an iPod.
> 
> But then, 16GB isn't really big enough, either. I might just keep my Nano around (til it dies, anyway) as well. It's not like it's masses of pocket space.


 
8gb is enough for say 1000 plus songs with artwork and a load of apps.

If some really big apps come out or you want lots of the priced games with video clips and a few flims / TV programs to watch on your nice big screen, well then 8gb doesn't quite cut the mustard.


----------



## nick (Jul 25, 2008)

I had calls from 2 CPWs yesterday to say they had them in (Selfridges & Brixton Hill). Didn't ask whether they were 8 or 16s, since I had already got a 16GB in Apple Regent St last Friday (sorry Marius).

FWIW there was a 2 hour queue (which they told me before I joined it) - but this seemed more to do with processing time than availability - they apologised to the last few people in the queue as they feared that they may not have any black ones available, but there was no suggestion of running out if you could forgo the colour choice.

I did have to shake hands and be congratulated, but can report that there was no whooping. I'm glad I went to apple, cos they seemed genuinly sorry about the time queuing and were very helpful, unlike I suspect <generalisation mode> the surly repsonse I'd have got from the spotty teenager with bum fluff on his face and a cheap polyester suit in CPW</generalisation mode>


----------



## jæd (Jul 25, 2008)

elbows said:


> Rumor based on beta firmware that copy & paste are coming:
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2008/07/25/hints-at-iphone-copy-and-paste-in-firmware-2-1/



I wonder what people on Internet Forums will whine about next...?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 25, 2008)

jæd said:


> I wonder what people on Internet Forums will whine about next...?



Remember they will always have the lack of physical keyboard to bitch about...


----------



## nick (Jul 25, 2008)

Jaed
Battery life will be the next big thing to complain ab


----------



## Iam (Jul 25, 2008)

Marius said:


> 8gb is enough for say 1000 plus songs with artwork and a load of apps.
> 
> If some really big apps come out or you want lots of the priced games with video clips and a few flims / TV programs to watch on your nice big screen, well then 8gb doesn't quite cut the mustard.



No plans for video at all, tbh. I've got a MacBook Pro with me most of the time, the screen on that's even better. 

I've got 1426 songs on my 8GB nano at the moment, so between that and the apps, a few more will be nice. But fuck it, eh, it'll stop me spending £300 on a touch any time soon, and that means I can buy the new DSLR I want.


----------



## jæd (Jul 25, 2008)

nick said:


> Jaed
> Battery life will be the next big thing to complain ab



Steve Jobs, last year : We didn't bother with 3g because it eats batteries
Iphone-whine-boys, this year : Wah...! If you turn 3g on the battery goes down faster.


----------



## jæd (Jul 25, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Remember they will always have the lack of physical keyboard to bitch about...



I expect a whole laundry list of items to be presented to me, some real, some perceived. And everyone has be very serious about each and every one of them because each one indicates buckets of fail by Apple who should sell 100% perfect products from day # 01.

And no-one is allowed to mention that iPhones aren't forced on anyone..

Bitch'n'scream at each other. The weekend beckons for me...!


----------



## nick (Jul 25, 2008)

jæd said:


> I expect a whole laundry list of items to be presented to me, some real, some perceived. And everyone has be very serious about each and every one of them because each one indicates buckets of fail by Apple who should sell 100% perfect products from day # 01.
> 
> And no-one is allowed to mention that iPhones aren't forced on anyone..
> 
> Bitch'n'scream at each other. The weekend beckons for me...!


No one, on this forum at least, can claim that they didn't know what they let themselves in for if they buy one. Take these comment as thoughts for enhancements for the next version.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 25, 2008)

Iam said:


> My biggest worry about the 8GB was using it as an iPod.
> 
> But then, 16GB isn't really big enough, either. I might just keep my Nano around (til it dies, anyway) as well. It's not like it's masses of pocket space.



I just got it to replace my 3Gen iPod Mini which has no battery life left any more.  That's 4Gb so 8Gb makes little sense to me.  I've been irritated by the capacity many times. I would like 64 or 128Gb.  16Gb on the way.

My hope is that there will be some competition from other manufacturers in the next 18 months.  This does what I'd like now (iPod + Browsing + Nice UI + Phone) so they win.  I'd like all that plus a decent camera with xenon flash, radio and tv capabilities please.


----------



## editor (Jul 25, 2008)

jæd said:


> I wonder what people on Internet Forums will whine about next...?


"Whine" as in voice legitimate concerns about the serious functional shortcomings of an expensive phone, yes?

The cheek of those people daring to question the iHype! No high fives for them, no sir.


----------



## Iam (Jul 25, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I just got it to replace my 3Gen iPod Mini which has no battery life left any more.  That's 4Gb so 8Gb makes little sense to me.  I've been irritated by the capacity many times. I would like 64 or 128Gb.  16Gb on the way.
> 
> My hope is that there will be some competition from other manufacturers in the next 18 months.  This does what I'd like now (iPod + Browsing + Nice UI + Phone) so they win.  I'd like all that plus a decent camera with xenon flash, radio and tv capabilities please.



There isn't a media player available that holds as much music as I'd like, tbh. But I don't foresee a time when I'm going to need more than 1500 songs without being able to get back to a source of more. It's not happend in the 15 months I've had the Nano.

I understand wanting the 16 entirely, but getting this one has allowed me to shift some of my toy budget elsewhere.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 25, 2008)

Iam said:


> I understand wanting the 16 entirely, but getting this one has allowed me to shift some of my toy budget elsewhere.


 
I know what you are saying.

I could potentially justify myself getting a Lumix by not gettting the 16gb but i still think i'll go 16bg as my existing camera is okay if not great.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 26, 2008)

If anyone is vaguely interested, I think the Carphone Warehouse has stock of both phones now.  Just need to ring them to order it.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 26, 2008)

> Existing iPhone customers are eligible for a special, early upgrade to the new 3G handset until 11th October, 2008. *This can now only be done via an O2 Retail store.*



Cunts. Especially as 02 seem to be hardly shipping any to Wales. CPW have been having more avalable than them.

Ed will love this bit:



> For the foreseeable future, iPhone 3G's will only be available in our Retail stores (as well as Carphone Warehouse and Apple stores).



The 3 million quid website ain't going to be used.

I'd like to gloat too but the cost of that is probably being paid for out of my tarrrif.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 26, 2008)

jæd said:


> I expect a whole laundry list of items to be presented to me, some real, some perceived. And everyone has be very serious about each and every one of them because each one indicates buckets of fail by Apple who should sell 100% perfect products from day # 01.
> 
> And no-one is allowed to mention that iPhones aren't forced on anyone..
> 
> Bitch'n'scream at each other. The weekend beckons for me...!



Yeah well you know how it is, one mistake and Apple are epic fail but at the same time let's ignore all the glaring problems with other devices years older...


----------



## Sunray (Jul 26, 2008)

nick said:


> Bought one - having a play.
> 
> One annoyance I have found is that, when I plug it into docking stations it tells me the accessory isn't supported and refuses to charge while it is in the dock - although it does play. This is the case on: Denon S52, a griffin FM transmitter and a JBL sound dock



Some surfing about and this is because they have ditched the Firewire interface so it'll not charge off the firewire bus which a lot of those devices seem to still use.  This was something Apple just did without telling too many people.  Lots of very pissed off punters with all sorts of audio and in car stuff that now does not work, perhaps including me, as I have a FM transmitter and car power adaptor.

Ahh yet another little converter to wire up the USB power from the firewire interface.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 26, 2008)

Hang on a sec. I have a griffin FM transmitter. I spent good money on that. Don't tell me that it's useless with the 3G phone  Grrrr


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 27, 2008)

The iPod radio and remote doesn't work on the iPhone 3g. Not tried my FM transmitter yet.


----------



## Iam (Jul 27, 2008)

Well, it's FAR better than any Windows Mobile smartphone I've ever used. Love the Remote App, to control this laptops iTunes! 

The FM transmitter thing could be annoying, but the Nano works fine in it, so I now have MP3 players for the pocket and the car.


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 27, 2008)

Dunno if this'll help anyone else, but I've been pissing around trying to get the remote app to work for a couple of weeks without any success.  Just found a forum post saying that their Speedtouch modem (which I have from Be) needs to have "Allow multicast from Broadband Network" turned on.

Remote now works fine.  Yay!  Small victories and all that...


----------



## Sunray (Jul 28, 2008)

cool box. Using the keyboard is easier than I remember but I think it's got a slight fault with the touch screen, it will go off on one from time to time. It's not much bigger than my k800i.  I wonder what will annoy me first?

I also wonder how many people hunted for the sim removal tool thinking it wasn't in the box.  Very discreet place to put that.


----------



## Iam (Jul 28, 2008)

Sunray said:


> cool box.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 28, 2008)

Whooop!  Whooooooo  Whoooooop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop 

*starts High fiving all of Urban75*


----------



## Crispy (Jul 28, 2008)

apple packaging is cool  

whoop yeah! go sunray go sunray, you da *man*


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2008)

OMG! You mean someone went into a phone shop and successfully bought a phone?!!

Incredible!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 28, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Whooop!  Whooooooo  Whoooooop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop Whoop
> 
> *starts High fiving all of Urban75*


----------



## Crispy (Jul 28, 2008)

It feels like christmas and gohostbusters all wrapped up in candyfloss!


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 28, 2008)

editor said:


> OMG! You mean someone went into a phone shop and successfully bought a phone?!!
> 
> Incredible!



Heh.

I've still got to explain to my boss that he's going to have to go into a store and do it all himself.  He doesn't like that.  Especially as I've had one for a fortnight.

It was a lottery, honest.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 29, 2008)

Given all the negativity I thought it was going to be passable but actually it's very cool.  Shame about the cost. If you like gadgets this is gadget heaven.

Camera is shit but the keyboard is so much better than I thought. Typing away like proper keyboard.


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Camera is shit but the keyboard is so much better than I thought. Typing away like proper keyboard.





Sunray said:


> Last edited by Sunray : 29-07-2008 at 00:16..


----------



## Sunray (Jul 29, 2008)

I added that last line.


----------



## paolo (Jul 29, 2008)

It's very usable. The only time I feel like I want a hard key keyboard is on a bumpy bus. As for 12 key numeric - never, ever, ever again do I want to type text on one of those. I mean, has anyone ever really posted on a forum from one of those handsets? And corrected their mistakes? (on a 2 hour commute, I think I managed one post a week).

QWERTY ftw, even if hard key qwerty is slightly more ftw


----------



## Gromit (Jul 29, 2008)

Palringo app. Nice one. 

I now have my MSN messenger on my phone. 

Mate was amazed by how quickly I was able to type back to him. Qwerty ftw.

ETA all I need now is MMS and CnP and I have my perfect phone.


----------



## Iam (Jul 29, 2008)

Keyboard's better than any mobile device I've ever used before. In fact, the whole interface is a joy.

Let's face it, no one here ever makes typos they need to edit on a full size keyboard, do they.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 29, 2008)

The Home button is entirely out of keeping with the rest of the phone, but they felt that a physical button would be better than a touch sensitive one, even though the phone is entirely touch sensitive?  

Its there to ensure that the phone fails after a certain length of time. You use it all the time, it gets you out of the application your in, there is no alternative. Its destined to be the #1 source of failure in about 18 months time.


----------



## paolo (Jul 29, 2008)

I suspect that the key readon that the home button is physical is that it acts as hard reset in the event of an app freezing. Press and hold acts as 'Force Quit', and of course combined with the power button, it does a reboot. You can't rely solely on a soft UI for those operations.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 29, 2008)

Whats wrong with using the other buttons, like the power button and volume down?

There is no justification for the most pressed button on the phone being a physical button apart from wanting it to wear out.

Faster CPU would be nice, that slight pause while it renders after a zoom could do with removing.


----------



## Iam (Jul 29, 2008)

OK, things I can't get mine to do...

Scrobble songs for Last.fm.

Not at all, not by doing all the things on the Last.fm threads, or using two other 3rd party apps.

Minor quibble, but still. I need to be reminded of my own music taste, dammit!


----------



## paolo (Jul 29, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Whats wrong with using the other buttons, like the power button and volume down?
> 
> There is no justification for the most pressed button on the phone being a physical button apart from wanting it to wear out.
> 
> Faster CPU would be nice, that slight pause while it renders after a zoom could do with removing.



I'm not sure they designed it to break? The most fragile thing on the 2g was the screen - which they've changed the design of in the 3g.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 30, 2008)

*Stephen Fry*

Apparently Stephen Fry has taken a pop at the Beeb for not giving Apple enough media coverage.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/07/apple_backlash.html


----------



## Sunray (Jul 30, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> I'm not sure they designed it to break? The most fragile thing on the 2g was the screen - which they've changed the design of in the 3g.



No its not designed to break, that's not what they did.

Give me a single reason for the #1 most pressed button on a touch sensitive 
device to be something that can wear out?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 30, 2008)

You don't have to give up expensive and power-hungry display space for it.


----------



## paolo (Jul 30, 2008)

The only alternative I can see to having a physical button is to use up screen space and have it in the UI. It would have to pretty big too, given it's importance. That aside I think you're jumping at shadows. The dial and end call buttons on other phones seem to hold up. I've not had one fail yet, and can't remember any friends having that problem either. More specifically, for the iPhone, I don't remember Reading any reports on the iPhone forums since last October, when I started following them. What I *have* seen is reports of screen damage/failures. And more general experience, I've seen the same with other models that friends own. Even those robust stubby little Nokias.

Furthermore, it's very difficult to engineer-in a set failure point. The variance will be so wild, that to get a reasonable 'hit' of post warranty, pre-obselence failure, you'll be taking back a huge number of phones - perhaps 10% - whilst still in warranty.

The single most effective way of generating new purchases is to foster obselence through the release new models. Happily for Apple, that is a zero cost spin off resulting from the need to maintain a competetive edge in selling into fresh hands.

For all these reasons, I don't for one minute think that Apple's future sales plan is geared around that very convenient, zero-screen use, and seemingly robust button.


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2008)

Marius said:


> Apparently Stephen Fry has taken a pop at the Beeb for not giving Apple enough media coverage.


Methinks the nice chap has lost it somewhat. The Nokia N95 sold a shedload more than the iPhone - and still technically does more despite being over a year old  - and that got barely any coverage on the Beeb.


Sunray said:


> Give me a single reason for the #1 most pressed button on a touch sensitive
> device to be something that can wear out?


Looks like it's not the button, but cracks in the case that are causing concerns:

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/07/30/question-is-your-white-iphone-cracking/


----------



## elbows (Jul 30, 2008)

Marius said:


> Apparently Stephen Fry has taken a pop at the Beeb for not giving Apple enough media coverage.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/07/apple_backlash.html



Oh dear! I read Stephen's article, and whilst I agree with some of his comments regarding the iphone, I dont think he is fit to comment on the BBC's Apple bias, as he is clearly a devoted Apple lover and so likely to be far more biased than the BBC on such matters.

As for the physical button, I think its a sensible part of the design. Whilst I would concede that hardware manufacturers are not likely to want to make devices that last a very very long time, I dont think its primary purpose is to fail in 18 months. Diminished battery life is more likely to bring failure woes to users in 18 months, unless Apple have made some other bad design or manufacturing decisions.

If physical buttons are perceived to be a weakness prone to fail, then Id think just about every other phone is more guilty of such flaws, as the iphone has fewer buttons than most. Still I further concede that it could turn out that the button will be a major source of woe down the line, but this will do Apple as much harm as good. So I think they'd rather concentrate on giving people other reasons to upgrade their iphone to a newer model in a few years time.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 30, 2008)

editor said:


> Looks like it's not the button, but cracks in the case that are causing concerns:


 
That is worrying. Thought Apple normally used better plastics than that.

Makes the black or white question easier for me too. Black. Cheers.


----------



## jæd (Jul 30, 2008)

Marius said:


> That is worrying. Thought Apple normally used better plastics than that.
> 
> Makes the black or white question easier for me too. Black. Cheers.



Seems to be (as usual) a tiny minority of phones. Will check the test units at work, though... Kind of fun watching the fanboys rushing to check their phones...


----------



## paolo (Jul 31, 2008)

Ed was highlighting a story in which the fanboys variously were threatening a class action, and one of which went as far saying jobs was sleeping with the engineers (I've toned that down a bit).

The thread of course could lead to a major iPhone scandal story, or it could lead to a minor level of faulty units and some fanboy twat saying the reason is that "Steve is Gay."

Anyway, away from piffle, anyone finding Safari is alot less stable? Mine's crashing a bit more. And another thing, "online" app installs seem to take ages and (I think) make the phone less stable?

Appreciate comments from people that use this phone. Cheers.


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Ed was highlighting a story in which the fanboys variously were threatening a class action, and one of which went as far saying jobs was sleeping with the engineers (I've toned that down a bit).



Usual fan-boy whining...



paolo999 said:


> Anyway, away from piffle, anyone finding Safari is alot less stable?
> 
> Mine's crashing a bit more. And another thing, "online" app installs seem to take ages and (I think) make the phone less stable?
> 
> Appreciate comments from people that use this phone. Cheers.



Main apps seem as stable as usual on the normal iPhone and on the 3G one... Some 3rd party apps are a bit dodgy, though... Downloading via AppStore.app also seems fine. What type of network connection are you using...


----------



## paolo (Jul 31, 2008)

The AppStore app itself is fine, but the install times can be aages. Over WiFi, can be an hour+. Now I'm assuming that the download & install can continue in background, as I'm generally doing other stuff on the phone once the download has kicked off.


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> The AppStore app itself is fine, but the install times can be aages. Over WiFi, can be an hour+. .


How big are these apps?!


----------



## Iam (Jul 31, 2008)

Is that paid ones, or free?

I've got Last.fm, Facebook, the Google one, and Palringo (the IM thingy) and they all installed in less than a minute...

I'm assuming that the apps concerned here are others, bigger than those?


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> The AppStore app itself is fine, but the install times can be aages. Over WiFi, can be an hour+. Now I'm assuming that the download & install can continue in background, as I'm generally doing other stuff on the phone once the download has kicked off.



Try downloading them in the foreground...? I think the longest download time was a few minutes over wifi for Texas Holdem. (Which is quite large due to containing video. Fun game, btw)...


----------



## Gromit (Jul 31, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> The AppStore app itself is fine, but the install times can be aages. Over WiFi, can be an hour+. Now I'm assuming that the download & install can continue in background, as I'm generally doing other stuff on the phone once the download has kicked off.


 
My 2G phone has started doing this. It wasn't doing it before. 

My theory is that something has fucked up and is using up RAM or processor time or something.

My solution was to try a factory reset. I've been syncing all my data to get ready to try it. Now my 3G is here i'm not going to bother.

Going to sync my 3G and see what happens when i try and download something then. If I get the same problem then its going to be a step by step of adding apps one at a time to see which one is the guilty party.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 31, 2008)

When you press the home button the OS suspends the application and unloads it from memory so I can't see how one application can effect another?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 31, 2008)

Eh!
What the fuck!

I know that those MP3 play fine on WinAmp but its skipped!  It SKIPPED, how the fuck can a flash player skip.  The player is still playing but the timer has stopped.

Hmm.  Bit buggy there I think.


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2008)

There's one mighty unchuffed editorial in The Guardian about Apple's MobileMe service:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/31/apple.email?gusrc=rss&feed=technologyfull


----------



## Gromit (Jul 31, 2008)

Sunray said:


> When you press the home button the OS suspends the application and unloads it from memory so I can't see how one application can effect another?



Palringo doesn't unload from memory. 
Plus programs with push elements must still be active somehow. 

Plus Safari goes straight back to the last page visited when loading again. 

Home button is not a total wipe.


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2008)

editor said:


> There's one mighty unchuffed editorial in The Guardian about Apple's MobileMe service:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/31/apple.email?gusrc=rss&feed=technologyfull



That's the journo who was running a business on the back of MobileMe, a _consumer_ orientated service..?  And, reports are, its beginning to stabilise...


----------



## Crispy (Jul 31, 2008)

editor said:


> There's one mighty unchuffed editorial in The Guardian about Apple's MobileMe service:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/31/apple.email?gusrc=rss&feed=technologyfull



Yeah, they really dropped the ball on this one.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Jul 31, 2008)

editor said:


> There's one mighty unchuffed editorial in The Guardian about Apple's MobileMe service:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jul/31/apple.email?gusrc=rss&feed=technologyfull


My god that really is a truly terrible story of human suffering.

Do they actually pay people to write pathetic whiney shit like that?!


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, they really dropped the ball on this one.



Who...? Apple for not doing enough testing, or the Guardian, for paying for that travesty of a column...?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 31, 2008)

apple for not doing enough testing


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2008)

jæd said:


> Who...? Apple for not doing enough testing, or the Guardian, for paying for that travesty of a column...?


Imagine the cheek of that "whiney" woman _daring_ to complain that something she's forked out a lot of money for doesn't work as advertised and - worst of all - she's had the audacity to share her experiences online!

Outrageous! It's a travesty, I tell ye!


----------



## Crispy (Jul 31, 2008)

Mobileme really should be free. Google have added CalDAV support to their calendar now, so coupled with IMAP for gmail, you can get synchronised online and offline calendar & email. Personally, I have no need for the other stuff you get with mobileme (web hosting, idisk etc.) so it's of no value at all to me.

They should at least do a minimum functionality free version.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 31, 2008)

I only use it for the sync (pretty useful for synching my home and work macs) and the web albums, I'd use the iDisk if I could even a slightly reasonable upload or download speed. It's atrocious for Europeans. And yes it should be free the greedy stards


----------



## Iam (Jul 31, 2008)

Running your business from a £60 a year mobile mail forwarder?

Yeah.


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2008)

editor said:


> Imagine the cheek of that "whiney" woman _daring_ to complain that something she's forked out a lot of money for doesn't work as advertised and - worst of all - she's had the audacity to share her experiences online!



I've got no problem with people complaining about a service they've paid for. However, I thought that the way the column was written was way below the Guardians usual standard. I understand she wanted to highlight problems with MobileMe, but I can think of more interesting ways of dealing with it, rather than a "woe is me" tale...


----------



## Gromit (Jul 31, 2008)

I've been offered 6 months free trial with mobile me. 

I don't need it so they can forget it. I don't need to sync on the move. It's not like I have a secretary at home changing my calendar or contacts whilst I'm out.

I can already access email and Facebook photos anywhere for free. 

I agree that charging domestic customers for it is a joke.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 31, 2008)

It was more of a blog winge than fact finding researched news article on public customer satisfaction.


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2008)

Iam said:


> Running your business from a £60 a year mobile mail forwarder?


I'd be happy to run my business off Gmail which is free.

And what price do you think someone might start to expect a decent and reliable email service?


jæd said:


> I've got no problem with people complaining about a service they've paid for. However, I thought that the way the column was written was way below the Guardians usual standard.


You described it as a "travesty." In what way was it a "comedy characterized by broad satire and improbable situations", exactly?



Marius said:


> It was more of a blog winge than fact finding researched news article on public customer satisfaction.


Perhaps that's why it was under the "Comment Is Free" banner. Funnily enough, I can see readers agreeing with her comments on that page too, so I would have thought that other MobileMe users might find that useful.

Ruddy whiners, eh?!


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2008)

editor said:


> I'd be happy to run my business off Gmail which is free.



With Gmail you've got no terms of service. If you lose business due to Gmail screwing up, you've no recourse....



editor said:


> You described it as a "travesty." In what way was it a "comedy characterized by broad satire and improbable situations", exactly?



I think someone is taking things a bit too literally here... 



editor said:


> Perhaps that's why it was under the "Comment Is Free" banner. Funnily enough, I can see readers agreeing with her comments on that page too, so I would have thought that other MobileMe users might find that useful.



It would be handy if she posted any solutions, stuff she tried, etc... If I was her I'd look at the Apple Discussions forum. Handy stuff there... Anyhow, CiF has had quality problems before. Remember the numpty off to find himself thanks to the Guardian and the job obtained with Daddies help...? 

Disclaimer : Opinions stated above are mine. Don't be surprised if other people vary...!


----------



## paolo (Jul 31, 2008)

Marius said:


> My 2G phone has started doing this. It wasn't doing it before.
> 
> My theory is that something has fucked up and is using up RAM or processor time or something.
> 
> ...



I also noticed that App installs via USB took alot longer than logically they should, given the filesize (vs. say audio of a similar size). Like 10 times longer.

I did have a theory that there is some kind of encryption / signature stuff going on that massively balloons the app's binary and/or requires some other hefty 'chat' with the store.

I'd be interested to hear how it goes with the 3G.


----------



## paolo (Jul 31, 2008)

Marius said:


> Palringo doesn't unload from memory.
> Plus programs with push elements must still be active somehow.
> 
> Plus Safari goes straight back to the last page visited when loading again.
> ...



My understanding is that the Native Apps can run in background (Safari clearly shows this) and that selected ones (e.g. email) do network stuff too. However non native apps cannot _run_ in background, until Apple release the notification server thingy (I forget it's name) to allow push type stuff to be managed in a way that doesn't create a risk of resource overload.

Possible indeed that the app image remains in memory, but frozen - that's the model used in Android.


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2008)

jæd said:


> It would be handy if she posted any solutions, stuff she tried, etc... If I was her I'd look at the Apple Discussions forum. Handy stuff there...


But she _tried_ to find solutions from the very people who had taken her money and promised a service. 

It's not her fault if Apple's service was shit and she has every right to complain, whether you like it or not. Why shouldn't she complain?


jæd said:


> Remember the numpty off to find himself thanks to the Guardian and the job obtained with Daddies help...?


Sorry, that appears to have nothing to do with this whatsoever. Could you please explain its relevance?


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2008)

editor said:


> But she _tried_ to find solutions from the very people who had taken her money and promised a service.
> 
> It's not her fault if Apple's service was shit and she has every right to complain, whether you like it or not. Why shouldn't she complain?



See post # 1067 : "I've got no problem with people complaining about a service they've paid for. However, I thought that the way the column was written was way below the Guardians usual standard."



editor said:


> Sorry, that appears to have nothing to do with this whatsoever. Could you please explain its relevance?



It was also in CiF section, and indicates ( IMO ) the general lack of quality in this section of the Guardian...


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> My understanding is that the Native Apps can run in background (Safari clearly shows this) and that selected ones (e.g. email) do network stuff too. However non native apps cannot _run_ in background, until Apple release the notification server thingy (I forget it's name) to allow push type stuff to be managed in a way that doesn't create a risk of resource overload.
> 
> Possible indeed that the app image remains in memory, but frozen - that's the model used in Android.



I've found that App Sync'ing is faster if all Apps are "closed". Ie, unloaded from memory. Though this would affect just updating an old App, rather than downloading new ones...


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2008)

jæd said:


> See post # 1067 : "I've got no problem with people complaining about a service they've paid for. However, I thought that the way the column was written was way below the Guardians usual standard."


You've just completely contradicted yourself. A minute ago you were complaining about the fact that she didn't offer any 'solutions' or log onto Apple's support forums etc, but now you're saying it's the _style _of her complaint you don't like.
But here's a thought. Instead of attacking the messenger, why don't you think about discussing the issues?





jæd said:


> It was also in CiF section, and indicates ( IMO ) the general lack of quality in this section of the Guardian...


And that's a *really *piss weak argument. 

Oh well.


----------



## elbows (Jul 31, 2008)

Nothing much wrong with that Guardian article if you ask me. Whatever the cause, Apples customer service has clearly let her down, and we deserve to hear about such things.

I know they had a big messup with some email servers when transitioning to MobileMe, its been a nightmare, not exactly unusual to have such a launch go pearshaped, but deserving of reporting nonetheless. 

I generally like Apple products and am a fan of their tech, but the fanboy desire to defend Apple at all costs annoys the hell out of me. I do not need to worship Apple or defend their failures in order to be able to appreciate the good side of their products.

I do wonder if part of it comes down to the premium costs of Apple. Does this make some purchasers of their stuff far more sensitive about their failings, requiring them to build walls of defense to preserve the brand they have invested in?


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2008)

editor said:


> You've just completely contradicted yourself. A minute ago you were complaining about the fact that she didn't offer any 'solutions' or log onto Apple's support forums etc, but now you're saying it's the _style _of her complaint you don't like.



That's what I've saying all along... 



editor said:


> But here's a thought. Instead of attacking the messenger, why don't you think about discussing the issues?



Perhaps because I wanted to highlight that I think the article could be better, coming from a respected newspaper...  I've made a comment earlier about MobileMe... Or are we only allowed to discuss want you want to discuss...?

(Though tbh, I _really_ can't be arsed : have a fun night posting about a phone... toodle-pip...!)


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2008)

To give you some "discussion"....



elbows said:


> I know they had a big messup with some email servers when transitioning to MobileMe, its been a nightmare, not exactly unusual to have such a launch go pearshaped, but deserving of reporting nonetheless.



Thing, as far as I can see, the service runs fine. There's been a few hitches, but nothing that isn't remarkable about something this size. And Apple seem to have been quite quick to remedy things, and now have good feedback... 

I'm still not 100 % sure whether I'll keep using it, but the wireless sync is handy. The other services (ie. the web galleries, etc) are cool and well integrated. Yep, you could get 3rd party services to do it, but it is nice when you don't have to do more than click a button to get a 2-way sync'd web gallery... 



elbows said:


> I do wonder if part of it comes down to the premium costs of Apple. Does this make some purchasers of their stuff far more sensitive about their failings, requiring them to build walls of defense to preserve the brand they have invested in?



Personally, its only correcting FUD coming from people who don't seem to have used it products / services much...  (Though I'm more and more inclined not bother.) There's also a lot of things I've found out recently which are interesting, but under a NDA, so it can be quite frustrating listening to all the tales of woe... 

Anyhow, I'm off... Play nicey-nicey...


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2008)

elbows said:


> Nothing much wrong with that Guardian article if you ask me. Whatever the cause, Apples customer service has clearly let her down, and we deserve to hear about such things.


Absolutely. Fuck knows why jæd keeps whining on and on about the writer, the website and a totally unrelated lifestyle feature rather than dealing with the topic.

The writer was absolute right to highlight the difficulties she's been getting, and it's an informative counterpoint to the general extremely positive press that the iPhone has been getting.

I imagine iPhone users looking to use the service will be very grateful to have potential problems pointed out.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 31, 2008)

editor said:


> Absolutely. Fuck knows why jæd keeps whining on and on about the writer, the website and a totally unrelated lifestyle feature rather than dealing with the topic.


Do not stray from the topic, do not shun the topic, do not besmirch the topic.
All hail the topic!


----------



## Gromit (Jul 31, 2008)

editor said:


> Absolutely. Fuck knows why jæd keeps whining on and on about the writer, the website and a totally unrelated lifestyle feature rather than dealing with the topic.
> 
> The writer was absolute right to highlight the difficulties she's been getting, and it's an informative counterpoint to the general extremely positive press that the iPhone has been getting.
> 
> I imagine iPhone users looking to use the service will be very grateful to have potential problems pointed out.


 
I once had stupid problems with NTL.
Lots of people did.

I wrote a very very similar piece to hers but on my blog.

Stone me, next time i'm not wasting it. I'm sending it to the Guardian. Print me up baby if thats all it takes to be journalist. I can do that!

Not saying none of the points aren't valid. Or that the anecdotal evidence isn't of some value. What would be of a lot more value though is reports that lots of people aside from her have been having problems. Providing that lots of people have been.


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 31, 2008)

editor said:


> The writer was absolute right to highlight the difficulties she's been getting, and it's an informative counterpoint to the general extremely positive press that the iPhone has been getting.



There has been plenty other critisism of early problems with MobileMe, for example here at the Register, though to be fair, I can't be arsed trawling through Engadget and whatever to find more - there's plenty of links in the Reg article.

And its not really an iPhone problem, but Apple's software division that need to iron out issues...


----------



## Sunray (Jul 31, 2008)

You get a list of email applications you can connect to, one of which is the free well received Google service and you decide to pay out $99 for the Apple brand new untried service? Well done.

I don't have high hopes of this phone lasting 12 months with the battery.  I reckon after 12 months of use I'll not get 2/3 of day of use out of it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 31, 2008)

And the threads on urban go round and round, round and round, round and round. The threads on urban go round and round...


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 31, 2008)

Hey, at least we're not Virtual Norwood.


----------



## paolo (Aug 1, 2008)

O2's (reported) 5 year deal isn't unbreakable, it seems:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2008/aug/01/telecoms.mobilephones

Personally I doubt things will change. Shitty as O2 can be (at times, the web site just defies belief) they seem to be doing better things with the iPhone than the native-turf AT&T. Amazingly, we Brits now pay *less* for the new model, whilst the Americans have to pay *more*. O2's dedicated iPhone support people are very easy get hold of and very helpful, and the shop staff are pretty good too in my limited experience. And O2 chuck in 10,000 WiFi access points, another thing the Americans don't get with AT&T.

Away from the customer benefits, the other (non trivial) matter is revenue payback to Apple. There's been several vaguely credible, but unconfirmed, reports that O2 bent over quite a bit in terms of revenue sharing. So would Vodafone or Orange do that? Bend over even more?

Of course there is another possible outcome - it goes multi provider in the UK. But - even though that's probably best for Apple (and consumers) in the long run - for some niggling unquantifiable reason, I doubt that will happen.

Place your just-for-fun bets folks... does it stay with O2 sole, or not?


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2008)

Marius said:


> Not saying none of the points aren't valid. Or that the anecdotal evidence isn't of some value. What would be of a lot more value though is reports that lots of people aside from her have been having problems. Providing that lots of people have been.


And that'll be what the feedback section is for. You can find it right after her article.

You really want to get off your high horse about this. I bet you wouldn't be criticising so vehemently if she was, for example, complaining about poor service from her gas company.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 1, 2008)

Haha O2 are blithering idiots.  Just sent me a text with a web link in, and for the 1st time for me I can just click that to open safari.  Obvious, but nice.

It was a link to iPhone related stuff, 'cept the web page says come back in a few days!  Another round of polite applause needed.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 1, 2008)

editor said:


> And that'll be what the feedback section is for. You can find it right after her article.
> 
> You really want to get off your high horse about this. I bet you wouldn't be criticising so vehemently if she was, for example, complaining about poor service from her gas company.


 
Yes i would. Its not news if its about Gas or a Landline either. 
I had mega issues with both (BT and BRitish Gas) when i moved into my house last year. Both are a long established services. Me having such hassle isn't news worthy.

This one woman leaps to criticise a fledgling service and because its connected with Apple and the iPhone is high profile atm its considered newsworthy?


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2008)

Marius said:


> This one woman leaps to criticise a fledgling service and because its connected with Apple and the iPhone is high profile atm its considered newsworthy?


Oh come on. Any product on the receiving end of the ludicrous levels of PR hype afforded to the iPhone can expect strong scrutiny.

One minute you've got Stephen Fry complaining that the iPhone hasn't had enough publicity (wha'?!) and now you're complaining that it's got the wrong sort of publicity!


----------



## Gromit (Aug 1, 2008)

In other news my iPhone 3G can't txt multiple recipients when my 2G could. 
WTF?!!!!!


----------



## Gromit (Aug 1, 2008)

editor said:


> Oh come on. Any product on the receiving end of the ludicrous levels of PR hype afforded to the iPhone can expect strong scrutiny.
> 
> One minute you've got Stephen Fry complaining that the iPhone hasn't had enough publicity (wha'?!) and now you're complaining that it's got the wrong sort of publicity!



Like I said before. Publish a real story about it fine. A one person anecdote isn't news no matter the subject.

If it is news how come we don't see stories about every company with crap customer service?
Cause Apple and O2 are by mo means alone and we'd have an anecdotes for thousands of firms.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 1, 2008)

Marius said:


> In other news my iPhone 3G can't txt multiple recipients when my 2G could.
> WTF?!!!!!



Mine does, well it appears that it does. Does it not send to the other people?

That would explain the other day then.


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2008)

Marius said:


> Like I said before. Publish a real story about it fine. A one person anecdote isn't news no matter the subject.


What? She's offered a review of her experiences with the services, That's what writers, journalists and reviewers do. 

Trying to rubbish the article, the writer _and the entire section_ that it's been published in (!) is just plain bizarre.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 1, 2008)

Perfectly reasonable article if you ask me (though not really about the iPhone). I run my business, such as it is, using MobileMe - granted that I didn't get it for that reason in the first place, but now I have it I do. A lot of Mac-using freelancers do the same, and more will be doing so as the iPhone gets more popular.

It's not a cheap service and for the money I expect a _lot_ better service than I've been getting recently, and there are a _lot_ of complaints around. I'm surprised the author could get through to Apple chat tech support at all.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 1, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Mine does, well it appears that it does. Does it not send to the other people?
> 
> That would explain the other day then.



I don't get the plus button to add another person after the first one has been added.

Eta Oh wait I do. But I got to press the area to get it to display when before the plus stayed visable for me so it was a one touch opperation to add a second person. Nowits a two touch


----------



## Sunray (Aug 1, 2008)

If the SMS tool gets a message while its sending it crashes.  Thats happened twice now.  I'm in a dodgy area for reception and this isn't so great anyway and it can take a while to send a message.


----------



## Rikbikboo (Aug 1, 2008)

I am posting this from my 2 g iPhone its unlocked and i have my vodafone chip in it. My girlfriend just upgraded this one to the 3g version.  In all honesty I think the battery life is shit. Much prefer my n95. That said I do like the touch screen and brousing is much better with this phone compared to the nokia. Oh and it plays music. Even the newer version iPhone does not support video calling and to be honest I do t think the Internet is that much faster. We tested on iphonenetworktest.com 2 g downloads at 332 kHz 3 g at 553 kbs  not a massive improvement.  Battery can't be replaced? how shit .


----------



## Gromit (Aug 1, 2008)

I left home today with a slightly depleted battery. 

I've been over using the phone a bit and it was on 3g. 

Watch the battery bleed away. 

But look at the amount the big screen has been on so what do I expect. I never used my old phone in this manner. It just sat in my pocket till I had a call or a txt. 

I think I'll be investing in one of those backup charger thingies though. What was the one we were recommending?


----------



## dogmatique (Aug 1, 2008)

I got the Proporta thingy the Ed recommended a while back.  Pretty good.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 1, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> I got the Proporta thingy the Ed recommended a while back. Pretty good.


 
Thanks for that. Just ordered one.

If anyone else is thinking of doing the same then the promotional code "cuppa" works from now until the end of August (10% off order).

I think "friendsforever" also works.


----------



## paolo (Aug 2, 2008)

Something not right about 2.0 - text editing. Mostly it's fine but from time to time it turns to glue. I've seen it in safari, mail and text message, so it seems like an OS thing. Anyone else seeing this? When I say glue, I mean one letter per second - down to 12 key typing rates.

Roll on 2.1


----------



## Gromit (Aug 2, 2008)

Yeah i saw it on my 2G.

Tis gone for now on my 3G.


----------



## paolo (Aug 2, 2008)

Marius said:


> Yeah i saw it on my 2G.
> 
> Tis gone for now on my 3G.



How long have you had the 3g, out of interest (pondering whether this is some kind of cumulative/usage issue) ?


----------



## Gromit (Aug 3, 2008)

It was only 2 days when i posted.

Well i think my iPhone may be faulty 

I'm getting very low Wi-Fi rates of it.

My laptop is getting 5.19 Mbps (5190 kbps / 634 kb/s)
My iPhone at the same distance is getting 0.18Mbps - 0.27Mbs. (althgough i did get 0.85Mbs briefly)

Not sure what to do about it.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 3, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Something not right about 2.0 - text editing. Mostly it's fine but from time to time it turns to glue. I've seen it in safari, mail and text message, so it seems like an OS thing. Anyone else seeing this? When I say glue, I mean one letter per second - down to 12 key typing rates.
> 
> Roll on 2.1



Yup, I've noticed that from time to time, sometimes it due to receiving a text,  but mostly its for no obvious reason.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 3, 2008)

*3g Docking Station*

Completely made of FAIL.

No extra cable included and it sits the phone at completely the wrong angle, e.g. nearly vertical, making it nearly impossible to use it when docked.  

Its there to show off that you have a iPhone while charging and fuck all else.


----------



## Structaural (Aug 8, 2008)

Some people are experiencing serious problems with their phones getting stuck while booting. And typically no response from Apple:


http://weblogs.redeyechicago.com/iphoneblog/2008/08/dear-steve-jobs.html

the thread:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1600894&tstart=0


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 10, 2008)

, driving game using the tilt to steer and break etc!


----------



## Sunray (Aug 12, 2008)

Battery life is nearly criminal on this thing.  I would hope to get more than 24hrs standby on light use, might consider taking it back if it doesn't improve.  

I've bought a Li-Polymer battery charger to charge it up when it fails.


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2008)

Ouch! If this is true Blackberry will be feeling the heat - and it would be a real triumph for the iPhone.

"ZDNet Australia certainly seems to think so. According to the site, Global Bank HSBC is considering ridding themselves of their reliance on the BlackBerry, opting instead to transition their workers to iPhones. If this goes through, it could result in a bulk order of up to 200,000 iPhone units which would most likely rank as the highest mass purchases of the handset to date."
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/08/13/hsbc-moving-to-iphone-dissolving-blackberry-allegiance/


----------



## Sunray (Aug 14, 2008)

Are they mad?

The battery life means all those people will be suddenly offline in the middle of the working day.  300hrs standby time is a load of bollox.  I got 48hrs with some light use this week.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 14, 2008)

As much as i am a fan of the iPhone for personal use i don't think its a good idea for businesses. Not unless they are going to issue everyone with proporta emergency chargers as well.

Phone technology is moving faster than battery technology is able to cope with re higher energy demands.


----------



## dogmatique (Aug 14, 2008)

Mine died unexpectedly today after a long phone call.  Very annoying.  Having to remember to carry the Proporta in my bag all the time will become arggghh.


----------



## editor (Aug 14, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Mine died unexpectedly today after a long phone call.  Very annoying.  Having to remember to carry the Proporta in my bag all the time will become arggghh.


Kinda defeats the point of a slimline style phone if you've got to lug a charger about though.

Edit: A fair few people are reporting problems with the iPhone's 3G reception: 
http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/14/iphone-3g-reception-woes-unfixable-maybe-maybe-not/


----------



## paolo (Aug 14, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Something not right about 2.0 - text editing. Mostly it's fine but from time to time it turns to glue. I've seen it in safari, mail and text message, so it seems like an OS thing. Anyone else seeing this? When I say glue, I mean one letter per second - down to 12 key typing rates.
> 
> Roll on 2.1



Well, I upgraded to 2.0.1 but it's happened again since, so no fix there. I think 2.0.x is a bit flakey, all things considered. Safari still bails from time to time.

Still holding off upgrading to the 3G... Battery life concerns.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 15, 2008)

Safari has bailed a few times on complex DHTML websites.

The maps application tends to be sluggish. Had some sluggishness from time to time, nothing I've got bugged out by.  The reception where I am is pretty poor, but it was on my K800i so hard to say one way or the other.  

One thing I do notice is that often Edge is quicker than 3G for data in London.  Once I am outside London, with a 3g signal its wifi like.  Once I get near home, often switching off 3G and going back to Edge makes it faster.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 15, 2008)

Yeah i've noticed that it always chooses 3G over Edge when really it would make more sence for it to select the network with the best/fastest connection and tbh that isn't always 3G depending upon your location.


----------



## paolo (Aug 15, 2008)

I'd read some tales of 3G speed woe from US users, but they were relatively uninsightful - either saying it was crap or that it wasn't. So it's interesting to hear about the variance here and when it is or isn't faster. In some ways this cuts back to some of the very early criticisms of the phone, simplistic check-box evaluation: it doesn't have 3G. So anything with 3G will be better. Which ignored battery life, and the much less understood issue of latency, (and indeed rendering speed), as factors that are outside a simple hypothetical bandwidth measurement. I remember a side by side shootout, with a 3G palm vs EDGE iphone. The iPhone was only marginally behind on a same-page load test.

So it seems like we can also add network contention as another factor that makes basic hardware spec comparison a dubious "science". A bit like comparing vehicle BHP, but forgetting about weight.

FWIW, I've found similar results with EDGE. Out of town (or in the wee small hours) it runs much faster. And indeed with GPRS too.

Maybe what we're seeing here is that there is much higher contention, in London, on 3G (or at least O2's deployment) than on EDGE.


----------



## Mr Retro (Aug 15, 2008)

editor said:


> Ouch! If this is true Blackberry will be feeling the heat - and it would be a real triumph for the iPhone.
> 
> "ZDNet Australia certainly seems to think so. According to the site, Global Bank HSBC is considering ridding themselves of their reliance on the BlackBerry, opting instead to transition their workers to iPhones. If this goes through, it could result in a bulk order of up to 200,000 iPhone units which would most likely rank as the highest mass purchases of the handset to date."
> http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/08/13/hsbc-moving-to-iphone-dissolving-blackberry-allegiance/



My company are doing the same. Only about 1000 users but still if it's a trend ...

Have Apple decided to specifically target business users?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 15, 2008)

Mr Retro said:


> My company are doing the same. Only about 1000 users but still if it's a trend ...
> 
> Have Apple decided to specifically target business users?


Yes - the 3G (or rather, the 2.0 firmware) has MS exchange support. This was a deliberate move to capture some of the business market.


----------



## Iam (Aug 15, 2008)

Works really well, too, much better than my work-WM device.


----------



## Structaural (Aug 15, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> I'd read some tales of 3G speed woe from US users, but they were relatively uninsightful - either saying it was crap or that it wasn't. So it's interesting to hear about the variance here and when it is or isn't faster. In some ways this cuts back to some of the very early criticisms of the phone, simplistic check-box evaluation: it doesn't have 3G. So anything with 3G will be better. Which ignored battery life, and the much less understood issue of latency, (and indeed rendering speed), as factors that are outside a simple hypothetical bandwidth measurement. I remember a side by side shootout, with a 3G palm vs EDGE iphone. The iPhone was only marginally behind on a same-page load test.
> 
> So it seems like we can also add network contention as another factor that makes basic hardware spec comparison a dubious "science". A bit like comparing vehicle BHP, but forgetting about weight.
> 
> ...



It could be a bug:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article...to_be_relieved_by_software_update_report.html


----------



## Sunray (Aug 19, 2008)

2.0.2 seems to have made it a bit quicker and less sluggish when typing on the keyboard.  The 3g signal is a bit better as well.  It was on just one bar now its on three.

I've been looking at the iTunes store for the 1st time on the iPhone and that is incredibly slick indeed.  

The whole iPhone package has been brilliantly thought out and is approaching a technological work of art.  There are some really irritating omissions, like I can't send contacts via text that dent that image, most are correctable.  

No-one really took on the iPod in a meaningful way and now its got pretty much no competition.  I do hope that isn't true for their phone.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2008)

Turns out HSBC have no interest in buying up 200,000 iPhones, and are sticking with Blackberry.

""There are no current plans to replace the BlackBerry," HSBC spokesman Donal McCarthy said Tuesday from the bank's headquarters in London."It is the business standard," he told CBC News."
http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/20/video-samsungs-extraordinary-i900-omnia-unboxing-go-ahead/

Meanwhile, Apple continues to struggle to fix the problems some users are getting with their 3G reception.
http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/007490.html


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 20, 2008)

editor said:


> ""There are no current plans to replace the BlackBerry," HSBC spokesman Donal McCarthy said Tuesday from the bank's headquarters in London."It is the business standard," he told CBC News."
> http://www.engadget.com/2008/08/20/video-samsungs-extraordinary-i900-omnia-unboxing-go-ahead/


Wrong link?


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> Wrong link?


Oops! Yes. But that's a top link!

edit: here's the correct story. Written by an urbanite!
http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=22484


----------



## Sunray (Aug 20, 2008)

They have definitely fixed the GPS system for me.  It was very sluggish and took ages to find your location sometimes giving up, now its nearly instant even indoors.  

The 3g data is suddenly nearly competing with Wifi speed wise, it was quite slow before for me, Edge often being quicker.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Those people above need the 2.0.2 software I reckon.


The problem is that for some people the update has made things no better, and for some, the problem's got _worse._


----------



## Sunray (Aug 20, 2008)

I deleted that line because I thought it was an old article given they only released the update last night at about 8pm.

Its still a young device, this sort of stuff will have bugs in it? All of these devices do.  So far Safari bombing out on more complex pages, GPS sluggish and failing to find your position, slightly jerky scroll speed when playing a track.  Nothing to bad.

Infineon have been making 3G chips sets for a while so that chip isn't faulty.  Its probably configuration of each countries 3g system being slightly different. 

They seem to have fixed the 3g issue for me. You can always switch it off, I tend to have it off until I want faster out and about browsing.  The cloud network means I am rarely far from a wifi spot anyway.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2008)

More here:  http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2008/08/steve-jobs-admi.html


----------



## Kanda (Aug 20, 2008)

editor said:


> More here:  http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2008/08/steve-jobs-admi.html



I've upgraded and haven't had to re-install all my iPhone apps. That's tosh.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I've upgraded and haven't had to re-install all my iPhone apps. That's tosh.


So Jobs was lying when he said, "This is a known iPhone bug that is being fixed in the next software update in September" and this iPhone web site is making it all up?

How strange.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 20, 2008)

editor said:


> So Jobs was lying when he said, "This is a known iPhone bug that is being fixed in the next software update in September" and this iPhone web site is making it all up?
> 
> How strange.




I didn't say that at all did I? 

The article says you have to re-install all your apps, that's tosh. As I said above.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2008)

Kanda said:


> The article says you have to re-install all your apps, that's tosh. As I said above.


Best write to them and tell them that they've got it all wrong then.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 20, 2008)

editor said:


> Best write to them and tell them that they've got it all wrong then.



I don't really care that much tbh


----------



## Iam (Aug 20, 2008)

editor said:


> Best write to them and tell them that they've got it all wrong then.



You could do it, as part of your ongoing Apple watch...



(this is a joke, btw)


----------



## Sunray (Aug 20, 2008)

editor said:


> More here:  http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2008/08/steve-jobs-admi.html



What a load of shit that article is, they clearly don't have an iPhone or much of a clue.  I can hear the foam splashing on the floor as they speak.  '*OMG* its unbelievable software has bugs.'  No! 

All applications you download are held on your iTunes account, you'd just need to sync again to get any app you had on there restored.  If it really goes pear shaped, you can master reset and sync and everything is restored.  No receipts needed.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2008)

Anyway, here's an interesting - and hopefully non shit - article on the battery problems and call-dropping problems that some iPhone 3G users say that they are suffering along with comment on a future power-saving chip.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/aug/21/apple.iphone?gusrc=rss&feed=technologyfull


----------



## moose (Aug 20, 2008)

I've got a Blackberry at work and an iPhone at home and there's no appreciable difference in the way I use them or the battery life. I guess some people are just unlucky. Both generally last me 3 days or so, with fairly heavy email and moderate browsing use. 

However, I do have a completely addictive Labyrinth game on the iPhone that eats battery life, so I need to restrain myself whilst I'm out and about


----------



## Sunray (Aug 20, 2008)

editor said:


> Anyway, here's an interesting - and hopefully non shit - article on the battery problems and call-dropping problems that some iPhone 3G users say that they are suffering along with comment on a future power-saving chip.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/aug/21/apple.iphone?gusrc=rss&feed=technologyfull



Thats an interesting article, Apple have a the rights to change the design of the CPU.  I'm fairly certain that the CPU isn't the main power draw though, so I wouldn't read much into that. 

I hope that future updates will help the battery life, its its Achilles heel, but its the screen that kills the battery. Its so crisp and bright and you can browse the web like you can on a desktop, or watch movies or the BBC iPlayer if your in a wifi zone. 

I can't see it getting much better what ever they do with this phone.  The new one has to have a new more efficient back light couple with a better lighter more energy dense battery to improve it.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 20, 2008)

moose said:


> I've got a Blackberry at work and an iPhone at home and there's no appreciable difference in the way I use them or the battery life. I guess some people are just unlucky. Both generally last me 3 days or so, with fairly heavy email and moderate browsing use.
> 
> However, I do have a completely addictive Labyrinth game on the iPhone that eats battery life, so I need to restrain myself whilst I'm out and about



Do you have an iPhone or an iPhone 3G, its the 3g thats got power problems.  On the way to Endorsit, I got < 8 hours use with moderate use.  I did have 3G switched on and we were moving which kills all phones. It seems better now but never gone more than 2 days with even very light use.  300 hours they say.  I find that hard to believe.


----------



## moose (Aug 20, 2008)

3G. Rarely turn 3G on, and follow all the other tips for saving battery.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 21, 2008)

Very weird bug, switching off Wifi (even though I am not connected) makes the GPS stop working altogether or very slow. Switch it on and its really quick.


----------



## moose (Aug 22, 2008)

here's why.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 22, 2008)

No, I'm not connected to a wifi network when it on or off, just when the switch is off it makes the GPS go on strike.


----------



## tarannau (Aug 22, 2008)

Grr, it's because it also uses Wi-fi signals to find your position. Turn wi-fi off and it'll take longer as a rule.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 22, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Grr, it's because it also uses Wi-fi signals to find your position. Turn wi-fi off and it'll take longer as a rule.



Eh?  Are you reading what I'm writing? 

It uses GPS to find where I am and its the GPS that I am talking about.   Right now I have a nice pulsing blue pin on my exact location, thats the GPS. Found me pretty quickly, less than 5 seconds. Switch off wifi and the GPS takes minutes or just gives up.

Bug.


----------



## tarannau (Aug 22, 2008)

You don't read do you. From Moose's link:



> iPhone uses signals from GPS satellites, Wi-Fi hot spots and mobile towers to get the most accurate location fast. So if you’re inside — without a clear line of sight to a GPS satellite — iPhone finds you via Wi-Fi. And if you’re not in range of a Wi-Fi hot spot,



Turn off the wi-fi and it loses one method of triangulation and takes longer.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 22, 2008)

I was wondering how it used WiFi hotspots to triangulate, as it's obviously not connecting to them, just detecting their presence and SSID.

I'm guessing that there is a database of locations of the WiFi hotspots with their SSIDs, probably built by driving around in a war-driving stylee. The iPhone connects over whatever data network it does have access to and looks that up. That would be why when I took my old access point up to my in-laws, the iPhone located me as being at my home, rather than 70-odd miles away.

All guesswork and supposition, I might have a look to see if there is any detail on how it works.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 22, 2008)

tarannau said:


> You don't read do you. From Moose's link:
> 
> 
> 
> Turn off the wi-fi and it loses one method of triangulation and takes longer.



 Doesn't matter. You can tell the difference between triangulation/wifi and GPS.  When its not GPS it puts a ring round your location, the 2G ring is much bigger than the 3G/Wifi ring.  When it gets a lock from the GPS satellites (from which it can get help from the A-GPS server) it puts a pulsing blue pin in the map. Its that last bit that that does not work properly when I switch off Wifi but only takes seconds with it switched on.  Its just a bug.  Gonna check if anyone has posted it on the apple forums.

FYI : It does not triangulate from Wifi base stations, the iPhone asks the A-GPS server if it knows the location of the base station from its IP address.  Lots of public WiFi spots have known locations.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 22, 2008)

I did wonder about the SSID but I remember the hotspot in Euston train station and that didn't have any location data in it. Just said BT UK Openzone.  Would have to connect to ask the A-GPS server (which would get the request from the router) for the location.  

I think that private Wifi would be too flaky for anything sensible location wise.



Lazy Llama said:


> I was wondering how it used WiFi hotspots to triangulate, as it's obviously not connecting to them, just detecting their presence and SSID.
> 
> I'm guessing that there is a database of locations of the WiFi hotspots with their SSIDs, probably built by driving around in a war-driving stylee. The iPhone connects over whatever data network it does have access to and looks that up. That would be why when I took my old access point up to my in-laws, the iPhone located me as being at my home, rather than 70-odd miles away.
> 
> All guesswork and supposition, I might have a look to see if there is any detail on how it works.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 22, 2008)

Further digging reveals that it doesn't just use Wifi SSID, it uses some form of fingerprint (possibly the MAC address of the base station which, I think, is going to be visible regardless of encryption etc, tha's why iStumbler etc can tell what make an access point is without any connection). Definitely doesn't use the IP address as that would require connection to that WiFi network.

The iPhones (and iPod Touch) all use Skyhook Wireless (http://www.gpsbusinessnews.com/index.php?action=article&numero=603), who have a database of WiFi fingerprints and locations. 

So that would explain why turning WiFi off would slow down location finding, as it uses the location info from Skyhook to work out roughly which GPS satellites it should be looking for.

Well, that's my take on it anyway 

ETA: That also explains why my location showed up wrong when I moved my accesspoint. I changed the SSID name by adding an extra digit, but the broadcast MAC address would have stayed the same.


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2008)

I find the  'My Location' pseudo-GPS offered with GoogleMaps to be pretty damn accurate - and very fast.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 22, 2008)

This Apple Support thread seems to confirm that it's using MAC addresses to determine location.


----------



## tarannau (Aug 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Doesn't matter. You can tell the difference between triangulation/wifi and GPS.  When its not GPS it puts a ring round your location, the 2G ring is much bigger than the 3G/Wifi ring.  When it gets a lock from the GPS satellites (from which it can get help from the A-GPS server) it puts a pulsing blue pin in the map. Its that last bit that that does not work properly when I switch off Wifi but only takes seconds with it switched on.  Its just a bug.  Gonna check if anyone has posted it on the apple forums.
> 
> FYI : It does not triangulate from Wifi base stations, the iPhone asks the A-GPS server if it knows the location of the base station from its IP address.  Lots of public WiFi spots have known locations.



Grrr.

Never mind, Llama's had the patience to explain it to you.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 22, 2008)

I've always got a connection to their servers, its actually pretty hard to not have a data connection with this phone.  Since the 2.0.2 update the 3G speed is near Wifi like. 

Thats why the blue pin thing not happening is weird. Remember that that blue pin is the proper GPS locking on and its not related to Wifi or triangulation.  Once it does you can walk about and the pin moves about on the map.  A Wifi is to say 20m or so and will give you a blue ring. 




Lazy Llama said:


> Further digging reveals that it doesn't just use Wifi SSID, it uses some form of fingerprint (possibly the MAC address of the base station which, I think, is going to be visible regardless of encryption etc, tha's why iStumbler etc can tell what make an access point is without any connection). Definitely doesn't use the IP address as that would require connection to that WiFi network.
> 
> The iPhones (and iPod Touch) all use Skyhook Wireless (http://www.gpsbusinessnews.com/index.php?action=article&numero=603), who have a database of WiFi fingerprints and locations.
> 
> ...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Thats why the blue pin thing not happening is weird. Remember that that blue pin is the proper GPS locking on and its not related to Wifi or triangulation.  Once it does you can walk about and the pin moves about on the map.  A Wifi is to say 20m or so and will give you a blue ring.



Here's a test. Put it in Airplane mode, and turn off Wifi and then try to find your location. The only way it has of doing it then is by GPS (without A-GPS). If you don't get a blue dot, it's not able to do true GPS. In my office, it starts with a cell area, shrinks to a smaller WiFi area and won't go all the way to a blue dot as I'm indoors. 

If you're in a building or close to a tall building, you'll usually be unable to get a true GPS lock, so you'll get Wifi/Cell best-guess. Turn off WiFi and the phone has to use cell area which is bigger.

It then uses the cell or Wifi location to feed the A-GPS so that real GPS locks faster, if it can find it - "enhances the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system". If it doesn't have the Wifi info, it'll be slower.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 22, 2008)

Not sure what that demonstrates, because without the A-GPS server, it doesn't know the the satellites to use or is able to use flaky GPS info.  Both enhance the GPS lock.

Just sitting there doing nothing.  

I reckon its a bug with the wifi positioning code, because like you say it does appear to do the search in 2g/3g/wifi/GPS order, getting progressively more accurate.  I reckon it ask for Wifi information and doesn't check its switched off so just sits there and never gets to the GPS code.

When I got it this app didn't really work at all. In Airplane mode, doesn't lock, well not locked in 5 minutes.   I'm on the 4th floor of a building in Archway.  I can see all of London out my window.

Switched it all back on, the 1st location was somewhat inaccurate, then the GPS locked and its got me spot on. 10 seconds.

There are no Wifi networks in range for me.


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2008)

Sadly, cut and paste has been and gone on the iPhone:


> Well, that didn't take long. As soon as people started to get excited about open-source OpenClip, and its ability to bring copy-and-paste functionality to the iPhone, Apple found a way to shut it down with its 2.1 firmware.
> 
> Of course, OpenClip is open source, and perhaps enterprising developers will find a way around the 2.1 firmware. Or maybe (gasp!) Apple will actually deliver the copy-and-paste functionality many have demanded.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Aug 26, 2008)

Its not something I often desire or need on the iPhone.  It sounds like a huge omission, but very rarely do you need it.  The big issue with cut and paste is selecting text with your finger. Its going to be a fiddly thing to do.   

You do get the real feeling that they didn't want fiddly when they made it.


----------



## Jonti (Aug 26, 2008)

It's a practical reality that Apple does control the IP code. If you use your phone in a way Jobs dislikes, or put software on it that it not to his taste, the Apple Corporation reserve "the right" to brick your phone.

Seems wrong to me. If it's my gadget, I get to decide what code I run on it.

Things are likely to change within a year or so, when the OpenHandsetAlliance's Android platform starts hitting the market.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 26, 2008)

Jonti said:


> It's a practical reality that Apple does control the IP code. If you use your phone in a way Jobs dislikes, or put software on it that it not to his taste, the Apple Corporation reserve "the right" to brick your phone.
> 
> Seems wrong to me. If it's my gadget, I get to decide what code I run on it.
> 
> Things are likely to change within a year or so, when the OpenHandsetAlliance's Android platform starts hitting the market.



Its nowhere near as good though from the emulator I've looked at on the SDK.

Seems to be lacking a decent lead developer.


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Its not something I often desire or need on the iPhone.


Each to their own, but I'm regularly copying details from texts and emails across to each other or into my Memo Pad, or copying details/addresses from web pages to add to my notes or to send on to friends, or copying and pasting serial numbers and passwords into webpages.


----------



## Jonti (Aug 26, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Its nowhere near as good though from the emulator I've looked at on the SDK.
> 
> Seems to be lacking a decent lead developer.


I'm cautiously optimistic that it will lead to some kind of mobile internet device for handheld audio and video communications that I'll actually want to have (one I can integrate into other, previously existing, data systems).

To the extent that it's a regular software project, I suppose your comment is fair. Google would be that lead developer.  But, as I understand it, the idea is not so much to produce a particular product, as to open up the field of internet phones to open competition on the interface and software level.

If it comes off, it should be very good news for end users!


----------



## Sunray (Aug 26, 2008)

editor said:


> Each to their own, but I'm regularly copying details from texts and emails across to each other or into my Memo Pad, or copying details/addresses from web pages to add to my notes or to send on to friends, or copying and pasting serial numbers and passwords into webpages.



Ahh, see I don't use it for email.  That's not why I bought it, I bought it because its an iPod with a phone bolt on.  Not sure I could be bothered typing loads of text.  Keyboard is good but not that good.

I can see some hand wringing at Apple trying to find a solution to select the text accurately and easily with your finger while retaining that distinctive iPhone ease of use.  Quite a challenge for Apple and why its not there now.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 26, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Its not something I often desire or need on the iPhone.  It sounds like a huge omission, but very rarely do you need it.  The big issue with cut and paste is selecting text with your finger. Its going to be a fiddly thing to do.
> 
> You do get the real feeling that they didn't want fiddly when they made it.



I survived a year without it on my n73, now have a Centro and have used it...er...twice. And one was only to memorise the shortcuts. Really don't see why the lack of C+P on the iPhone is considered such a major flaw.


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I can see some hand wringing at Apple trying to find a solution to select the text accurately and easily with your finger while retaining that distinctive iPhone ease of use.  Quite a challenge for Apple and why its not there now.


How hard can, "tap on the word once to select, keep on tapping to select next words along and then hold for the copy/paste menu" be?

It's easy to tap select on Palm/WM phones already - no stylus needed!


Kid_Eternity said:


> Really don't see why the lack of C+P on the iPhone is considered such a major flaw.


It very much depends how much of a power user you are. If you're a business dude on the road, I imagine you'd always be needing to copy over contacts, memos, web details etc to email/text, Word docs etc.

I use copy and paste just about every day.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 26, 2008)

editor said:


> How hard can, "tap on the word once to select, keep on tapping to select next words along and then hold for the copy/paste menu" be?
> 
> It's easy to tap select on Palm/WM phones already - no stylus needed!
> It very much depends how much of a power user you are. If you're a business dude on the road, I imagine you'd always be needing to copy over contacts, memos, web details etc to email/text, Word docs etc.
> ...



Always sounds simple.

Very much depends on the zoom level how hard that actually is, and remember 'touch the screen' is taken for click, 'touch move is drag', 'double tap' is zoom in/out.  You would have to tell it its in 'select' mode. The phone does not have a 'touch' state in its front end, e.g. those commands always do the same things regardless.  Adding a 'select' mode would break the iPhone UI paradigm.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 26, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Very much depends on the zoom level how hard that actually is, and remember 'touch the screen' is taken for click, 'touch move is drag', 'double tap' is zoom in/out.  You would have to tell it its in 'select' mode. The phone does not have a 'touch' state in its front end, e.g. those commands always do the same things regardless.  Adding a 'select' mode would break the iPhone UI paradigm.



Which kinda suggests they fucked up from the word go, no?

C&P is a basic requirement for a smartphone IMO, like Editor I use it all the time...


----------



## Sunray (Aug 27, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Which kinda suggests they fucked up from the word go, no?
> 
> C&P is a basic requirement for a smartphone IMO, like Editor I use it all the time...



No not really, they took a decision in favour of simplicity and ease of use.  Cut and paste was sacrificed on that altar.  I'm not saying that it wouldn't be useful but its not like I find myself craving the cut and paste.  

Currently I just see it as something people are using as a stick to beat the device down with.  Fair enough, what ever tickles you, but in general use this phone is a technological work of art and makes every other phone out there look steam powered.


----------



## editor (Aug 27, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Currently I just see it as something people are using as a stick to beat the device down with.  Fair enough, what ever tickles you, but in general use this phone is a technological work of art and makes every other phone out there look steam powered.


Now that's just bullshit. 

The iPhone has a fabulous interface and is wonderfully easy to use, but there's loads of 'steam powered' phones out there that offer the kind of basic, useful, everyday functionality that the iPhone still can't manage - like cut and paste, MMS, decent camera,  replaceable battery, video recording and more.

And of the shiny future is being locked into a limited, closed down, proprietary system with the risk of having your phone borked if you dare to install a non approved app on the phone _that you've bought_, then give me steam power every day.

Choo choo.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 27, 2008)

Oopsie!! 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7582197.stm



> *A television advert for the iPhone misled consumers, the Advertising Standards Authority has ruled. *
> 
> Two complaints to the watchdog noted that the advert said "all the parts of the internet are on the iPhone".
> 
> But the ASA said because the iPhone did not support Flash or Java - two programs that form part of many webpages - the claim was misleading.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 27, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I survived a year without it on my n73, now have a Centro and have used it...er...twice. And one was only to memorise the shortcuts. Really don't see why the lack of C+P on the iPhone is considered such a major flaw.



I used to have an N73 and you could do C&P, and I used it, even though I don't generally use my phone for work type stuff. I'd find a phone that you couldn't do C&P on quite frustrating.





editor said:


> Now that's just bullshit.
> 
> The iPhone has a fabulous interface and is wonderfully easy to use, but there's loads of 'steam powered' phones out there that offer the kind of basic, useful, everyday functionality that the iPhone still can't manage - like cut and paste, MMS, decent camera,  replaceable battery, video recording and more.



I agree - I'm getting a bit bored of friends who've just got an iphone telling me all excitedly about these amazing things their phone can do, which I've been able to do on my N95 for more than a year, and much of it, on phones before that too.


----------



## tarannau (Aug 27, 2008)

It's not about just doing things though is it, it's about ease of use. 

And the N95 just is awkward to use in comparison, a jack of all trades that doesn't do much badly, but not much well either. Compare how much people use their iphone for web browsing compared to other smartphones for example. Or for playing music. There's a huge difference. 

Similar applies to the Crackberry. It's not the most versatile, full featured device, but it's the best at email, corporate included. And that's more than enough to win it rabid support. 

I think people flogging the iphone for not being all things to all people are missing the point. The majority of people use their smartphones for only a limited number of purposes - do those well and loyalty follows.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 27, 2008)

editor said:


> Now that's just bullshit.
> 
> The iPhone has a fabulous interface and is wonderfully easy to use, but there's loads of 'steam powered' phones out there that offer the kind of basic, useful, everyday functionality that the iPhone still can't manage - like cut and paste, MMS, decent camera,  replaceable battery, video recording and more.
> 
> ...



Most SE and Nokia phones are closed devices.

You can go on and on about all the features that other phones have but in the end its not about features any more.   

Phone manufacturers are currently engaged in a feature set war, supplying technological marvels with huge feature tick lists but relying on yesterdays interfaces.  Interestingly this was also true about the iPod, its competition seemed to try to rely on feature set, seemingly blind to the key reason for the iPods success, easy of use.

Compared to some phones out there, the iPhone is a bit feature light in many respects.   Why I say this is a technological work of art is that the features it does have are executed beautifully.  

I can live with the missing features because I don't want to to go back to clunky world.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 27, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Most SE and Nokia phones are closed devices.



I've not had many problems installing any number of non-Nokia Symbian apps on my Nokias.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 27, 2008)

teuchter said:


> I used to have an N73 and you could do C&P, and I used it, even though I don't generally use my phone for work type stuff. I'd find a phone that you couldn't do C&P on quite frustrating.



It can? I don't mind the lack of C+P, I use my Centro all the time for writing emails, logging notes, serial numbers for software and still don't find I use it naturally. Maybe I'll try it consciously and see if it's actually useful...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 27, 2008)

Sunray said:


> in general use this phone is a technological work of art and makes every other phone out there look steam powered.



Nah, it's a fantastic UI on top of a badly flawed (IMO) smartphone, with a quite horrible business model behind it.


----------



## Iam (Aug 27, 2008)

So buy something else then.

Like the badly flawed WM interface on top of shit hardware...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 27, 2008)

Iam said:


> So buy something else then



I did 

I bought something that actually does what I want, and more importantly, _allows_ me to do what I want with it


----------



## Iam (Aug 27, 2008)

Oooh, well done. See the vast hordes of impressed... oh.

Windows Mobile lol.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 27, 2008)

Iam said:


> Windows Mobile lol.



<shrugs>

It does what I want it to, and it's never crashed once


----------



## paolo (Aug 27, 2008)

Out of interest, anyone know how Android does copy and paste?


----------



## Sunray (Aug 28, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Out of interest, anyone know how Android does copy and paste?



As far as the SDK emulator goes, does not seem to be implemented yet or its perhaps a key combo I don't know?


----------



## dogmatique (Aug 28, 2008)

Too tired to trawl back to see if this has been mentioned - but someone has come up with a cut and paste app for the iphone, though Apple doesn't seem too keen on it for some reason.  It's a simple app, described here by Geek Brief's Cali Lewis on the front page of OpenClip's website.


----------



## elbows (Aug 28, 2008)

Interesting to see Apple getting bad press yesterday for getting an advert banned in the UK - claiming you got the whole of the web on the iphone, when java & flash support dont exist = misleading.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 28, 2008)

Yeah read that...not sure its a big deal really. I mean no one went mad at Sega when they did their play 6 billion people online adverts...


----------



## Kanda (Aug 29, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I mean no one went mad at Sega when they did their play 6 billion people online adverts...



They did actually, I was working there at the time when they were trying to wangle out of it


----------



## Sunray (Aug 29, 2008)

I thought I'd have a go at the iPhones email option so I set it up.  Its not that I've ever hankered after reading my email.

haha This is the comedy option in their feature tick box. 

Apple are having ideas well above their station if they believe that that is suitable for well anyone actually.  Its not suitable for me and I just thought I'd take a look.  Its got no features apart from being able to view full html emails and pops a dial icon by phone numbers.  I think the effort connecting it to Exchange would have been much better invested in giving the email client a few features, like 'mark all as read'.  Waste of space. 

I've switched it off.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 29, 2008)

Kanda said:


> They did actually, I was working there at the time when they were trying to wangle out of it



I meant on urban.


----------



## Fingers (Aug 29, 2008)

I have one word to say 'ifooty'

Just downloaded it and it does minute by minute commentary of current matches, leagues table, results for the last two seasons and news.

Totally free as well.  All data cribbed live from the BBC website.


----------



## Pie 1 (Aug 30, 2008)

tarannau said:


> It's not about just doing things though is it



When Bluetooth is only useable for hands free & head sets, then yes I'm afraid it is.

Aside from the obvious uses for blue tooth that millions enjoy, here's a specific one for you.
I'm a pro photographer & have a digital camera back that has bluetooth. The LCD display on the camera back is a: not that good & b: often in awkward/sun blinded viewing angles etc. Bluetooth on, I could if I had one,  then sync it with devices such as an HP iPaq and image previews & function controls are now in my hands at a comfortable and shaded viewing position and easily shown to clients etc.
But I don't want an Ipaq because it's horrible & windows based (most pro photog's are mac) But I'd really like an iPhone beause it got a fucking brilliant screen & has the same OS as my hardware. 
Shame eh?


----------



## WWWeed (Sep 1, 2008)

More problems for the iphone:


> A GAPING HOLE in the Iphone's security will be fixed next month according to Macworld.
> 
> The back door, which overrides password security on a PIN locked handset, allows access to URLs, mail addresses and phone numbers.
> 
> ...


http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2008/09/01/iphone-emergency-flaw-fixed


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2008)

dogmatique;7967177]Too tired to trawl back to see if this has been mentioned - but someone has come up with a cut and paste app for the iphone said:


> Out of interest, anyone know how Android does copy and paste?


If it hasn't then I'm not buying one, although there is a video here: 

Btw, here's an interesting commentary on how Apple instils loyalty amongst its users, despite some of the new iPhone's major shortcomings: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/TECH/biztech/08/29/apple.loyal.ap/index.html


----------



## tarannau (Sep 1, 2008)

Pretty rubbish article mind, not helped by one of the worst marketing analogies I've heard in a long time:



> Baba Shiv, a professor of marketing at the Stanford Graduate School of Business, compares Apple's fan base to Harley-Davidson motorcycle riders who pass over arguably higher-quality Japanese bikes.



Now, whatever you think about Apple, it's patently ridiculous them to compare them with the hidebound, highly traditional brand of Harley Davidson. Not just in quality terms, but because Harley's reputation is of a classic, unchanging and predicatable 'American' design, without a hint of the innovation and willingness to experiment with form in the way Apple has. Equally Harley's customer profile is hugely different etc etc

...Actually the more I think about this comparison, the more wrong-headed it seems on so many levels. The article seem a bit of a cut and shut space filler in general.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 1, 2008)

I think it's a pretty good analogy - both companies make overpriced products that have a "cool" image and enjoy massive customer loyalty, in spite of any design flaws


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Now, whatever you think about Apple, it's patently ridiculous them to compare them with the hidebound, highly traditional brand of Harley Davidson. Not just in quality terms, but because Harley's reputation is of a classic, unchanging and predicatable 'American' design, without a hint of the innovation and willingness to experiment with form in the way Apple has. Equally Harley's customer profile is hugely different etc etc


I disagree. I think it's a valid comparison of the_ attitude_ of the fans of both products, even if the style of the companies are clearly quite different.

It's hardly a negative thing anyway unless you start over-analysing it.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 1, 2008)

Fact: Harley Davidson make more money from Harley Davidson Merchandising than they do from Motorbikes


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Fact: Harley Davidson make more money from Harley Davidson Merchandising than they do from Motorbikes


Even sadder was CBGBs closing down but then spawning a t-shirt shop. 

I imagine Motorhead must sell more t-shirts than records too. And the Ramones too, probably.

Sure is a crazy, mixed up world we live in folks. Oh yes indeedy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 1, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Fact: Harley Davidson make more money from Harley Davidson Merchandising than they do from Motorbikes



Yep same goes for bands when it comes to albums versus merchandise profits too.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 1, 2008)

Looks like the iPhone is going to be made available as Pay As You Go on 16th September with *free unlimited browsing and Wi-Fi for the first 12 months* (looks like its £10 per month after). According to the site, the new iPhone 3G 8GB for Pay & Go will be available for £349.99 and the 16GB version for £399.99

Still very pricey but cheaper than the current option if you don't make a huge amount of calls on your mobile but still want a handy 3G mobile internet device. Its looking more and more tempting I have to say.

http://www.o2.co.uk/iphone/paygo


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2008)

£400 for a phone? No thanks!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 1, 2008)

About the going rate for a high-end smartphone, confirmed by a quick scan of the frront page of www.expansys.com


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 1, 2008)

editor said:


> £400 for a phone? No thanks!



Yeah..I know. A development nonetheless in the ongoing iPhone saga. 

As someone on HUKD pointed out, it actually works out at £530 on Pay & Go for the 8GB (£10 top up X 18 months plus £350) It would cost £720 for the same on the contract (£45 a month for the 1st 9 months then £35 a month for the 9 after that) so you would save about £190 a month with this give or take.

However, you lose the visual voicemail and call merging plus the unlimited WiFi & Browsing for the last 6 months worth £60.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 1, 2008)

Crispy said:


> About the going rate for a high-end smartphone, confirmed by a quick scan of the frront page of www.expansys.com



Yep the new Treo Pro is probably gonna be about 400 quid...


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep the new Treo Pro is probably gonna be about 400 quid...


Like I said, I'd never buy a phone at that price - even a Palm!

I'd wager the Treo Pro will soon be available for a fair bit less than £400  in a month or so and - unlike the original iPhone - it's immediately available free on contract from its launch date and you can use it on any network.


----------



## ovaltina (Sep 1, 2008)

I saw a little old lady reading the bible on her iphone (or maybe it was a whizzy touch screen ipod?) on the tube this morning.


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2008)

Looking at the small print of the PAYG deal, customers have to agree to a minimum top up amount every single month of £10 and calls to UK landlines are charged at a pricey 5p per minute with texts stinging you at 10p a go. That kind of bumps the overall cost up a bit.

http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/idg/uk/MacworldUk/~3/380612033/story01.htm


----------



## editor (Sep 1, 2008)

ovaltina said:


> I saw a little old lady reading the bible on her iphone (or maybe it was a whizzy touch screen ipod?) on the tube this morning.


There's a *huge* market for religious apps on PDAs/smartphones. There's loads of weird God-bothering apps available for the Palm and I expect it'll be the same story for the iPhone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2008)

editor said:


> Like I said, I'd never buy a phone at that price - even a Palm!
> 
> I'd wager the Treo Pro will soon be available for a fair bit less than £400  in a month or so and - unlike the original iPhone - it's immediately available free on contract from its launch date and you can use it on any network.



So it's 400 then...? Also, you can get most phones for free on a high enough tariff...


----------



## moose (Sep 4, 2008)

editor said:


> calls to UK landlines are charged at a pricey 5p per minute with texts stinging you at 10p a go.



Er... that sounds comparable, or cheaper than, most PAYG charges. 

Orange: 15p - 20p per minute to UK landlines, texts 10p each
Vodafone: 15p - 20p per minute to UK landlines, texts 10p each
T-Mobile: 20p for first 2 minutes per day, 10p thereafter to UK landlines, texts 10p each
And they've now edited the article you linked to to correct their error in saying you had to top up by £10 per month.


----------



## Oswaldtwistle (Sep 5, 2008)

editor said:


> Looking at the small print of the PAYG deal, customers have to agree to a minimum top up amount every single month of £10 and calls to UK landlines are charged at a pricey 5p per minute



5ppm is very cheap for pay as you go!


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2008)

If you're wondering why it takes so long for iPhone's to sync, here's the answer:







(*actually, that's not very amusing is it? Sorry)

Elsewhere, Herr Jobs is busy deciding what kind of fun he's going to allow you to have on your own phone. That you bought.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10032963-37.html


----------



## 43mhz (Sep 7, 2008)

So managed to eventually find an iphone for sale in this corner of italy.. went for a €50 month contract with TIM - 250 minutes/100 SMS w/1GB Data.. forked out €259 for the phone.. downloaded a few apps.. most impressed with Beatmaker, Jaadu VNC and Picoli so far.


----------



## moose (Sep 7, 2008)

editor said:


> Herr Jobs



Why are you calling him Herr? Is he German? Are you German? Are you saying something about Germans?


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2008)

moose said:


> Why are you calling him Herr? Is he German? Are you German? Are you saying something about Germans?


It's a common enough jokey industry nickname for him, probably coined in response to his, shall we say, rather _hands on_ management of his company and products ("You vill not install that app on your iPhone" etc etc)

http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/16/steve-jobs-worried-about-the-zune-in-a-word-no/
http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inqui...en-bill-gates-wants-to-be-bill-gates-any-more


----------



## moose (Sep 7, 2008)

Oh, I see - so you and those journalists are comparing him to a Nazi! Heh! LOL etc....


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2008)

moose said:


> Oh, I see - so you and those journalists are comparing him to a Nazi! Heh! LOL etc....


You're right. It's clearly in terrible taste. No jokes must be made about Mr Jobs and any light hearted references to Germans are simply not funny.

I'll immediately delete all my recordings of Spike Milligan, Fawlty Towers, Dad's Army, Vivian Stanshall, Monty Python etc etc...


----------



## moose (Sep 8, 2008)

Um, are you confusing Germans with Nazis?


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2008)

moose said:


> Um, are you confusing Germans with Nazis?


It certainly seems you are. 'Herr' is not a Nazi word.   You brought up the Nazi connection. I've never mentioned them.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 8, 2008)

First all the frankly weird and innaccurate stuff about how the iphone (isn't) more expensive than the other PAYG and even contract deals. And now Ed's stooped to Herr Jobs jokes, probably bored by constant repetition of Fanboy.

No, he's got no bias against Apple, oh no not at all. It's all witteh!


----------



## tarannau (Sep 8, 2008)

editor said:


> It certainly seems you are. 'Herr' is not a Nazi word.   You brought up the Nazi connection. I've never mentioned them.



Oh come on. You really claiming that it's just a simple use of "Mr' in german, perhaps a jibe about German efficiency? And nothing at all to do with the war and ideas of 'Nazi' leadership and control.

TBH I don't care either way, but you've got selective self-delusion if you don't believe there's more than a dose of the latter.


----------



## moose (Sep 8, 2008)

editor said:


> It certainly seems you are. 'Herr' is not a Nazi word.   You brought up the Nazi connection. I've never mentioned them.



But you linked to an article referring to Jobs in connection to 'iGas Chambers', the 4th Reich, and Nazis, and referred to it as light-hearted comments about Germans  

(I'm not seriously taking issue with you here, btw, I find your loathing of the Apple Corporation quite entertaining  )


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2008)

tarannau said:


> First all the frankly weird and innaccurate stuff about how the iphone (isn't) more expensive than the other PAYG and even contract deals. And now Ed's stooped to Herr Jobs jokes, probably bored by constant repetition of Fanboy.


If you bothered to read my posts here and elsewhere you'll see I've regularly complimented Apple on their products, their design and their user interface. If I could be arsed, I could easily produce a long list of recent positive comments I've made about  Apple but is seems you're blind to them. But let's put it to the test - can you find some posts where I've criticised, say, the iBook?

But what does irk me is how people - like you - are happy to regularly play down their nasty business practices and constantly apologise for the kind of consumer-unfriendly antics you'd be quick to condemn if it were any other company doing them. 

And I find it bizarre that whenever I dare point out some of these practices, I'm immediately labelled a hater and 'anti-Apple.' 

Sometimes it honestly feels like I've criticised a religion or something - just witness the way you and Moose are leaping on my lighthearted 'Herr Jobs' comment and trying desperately to infer some sort of Nazi connection.

It's pathetic, it really is. I don't hate Apple but I certainly don't like some of their business practices.

Here's a post of mine from just less than 48 hours ago. Can't you just _feel the hate?_ 



			
				editor said:
			
		

> Apple must roar with laughter each time a new Windows Mobile phone comes out because they know that no matter how many groovy features are bolted on to the phones, they'll still be an absolute dog to use.
> 
> Steve Jobs and Co may have really worrying business practices that are setting a truly awful precedent for the mobile industry, but to the average punter, *the iPhone is an absolute joy to use: intuitive, easy, fun and simple *- none of the words that could be used to describe WM.


But hey! Don't let your love of Apple get in the way of the facts, eh?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 8, 2008)

editor said:


> If you're wondering why it takes so long for iPhone's to sync, here's the answer:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Microsoft and Sony dictate what goes onto their consoles, their SDK's cost a fucking mint for a start and then they have to get approval of the game.  People just hack the fuck out of them. Same with the iPhone now.   I see nothing new.    

In all cases I reckon that they should exercise better control over what goes on them, too many shit games and applications out there. 

In the iPhone, this is partly down to the paucity of top developers on the Mac.  Its a professional users computer.  PC's are professional developers (and super geeks) computers.  Be better if they could release a Windows SDK for the iPhone.  Would instantly increase the quality of apps just because there would be million times as many people writing stuff.


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2008)

Sunray said:


> In all cases I reckon that they should exercise better control over what goes on them, too many shit games and applications out there.


Surely that should be for the _owners of the phones _to decide, rather than have Apple decide for them what is and isn't useful?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 8, 2008)

I agree, but its not like you don't know what your buying into.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Surely that should be for the _owners of the phones _to decide, rather than have Apple decide for them what is and isn't useful?



Of course, but as in the case of consoles, if they are going to exercise control, do a decent job of it.  

When you shop at Waitrose or John Lewis you are reasonably assured your getting a level of quality from them. I cant see why the same cannot be true of Apples App store.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 9, 2008)

editor said:


> Surely that should be for the _owners of the phones _to decide, rather than have Apple decide for them what is and isn't useful?



if an poorly written ap crashes, bricks a phone etc cause it's poorly coded apple gets the flack not the so designer. The phone is shit etc etc when it's not the fault of the phone but poor coding. 


I can appreciate why apple would want to quality assure out as much of that as possible.To protect rep.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 9, 2008)

Oh, bought one of these







its Lithium Polymer so its lighter (though more expensive) at only 90g and appx the same size as the iPhone, so pretty small.  It also does not suffer from self discharge, the resistance between the plates its very high. This means you can charge it and leave it in your bag for ages and it will still be fully charged when you need it. The main reason I spent the extra.

I got two and half charges on my iPhone, this or something like it is essential if you own an iPhone.

42 quid.


----------



## dogmatique (Sep 9, 2008)

Got a linky for that?  I'd like to compare it to the proporta lithium charger I've got...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2008)

Interestingly I've spoken to two people in the last two days, both are 'power' smartphone users (one runs a web design company, the other an IT outfit) both have all kinds of smart phones and had no problems with WM too. Both now have the iPhone 3G, and got it partly due to the new enterprise functionality.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 9, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> Got a linky for that?  I'd like to compare it to the proporta lithium charger I've got...



http://www.dabs.com/productview.asp...Id=11012&fb=555&NavigationKey=11012&InMerch=1


----------



## Sunray (Sep 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Interestingly I've spoken to two people in the last two days, both are 'power' smartphone users (one runs a web design company, the other an IT outfit) both have all kinds of smart phones and had no problems with WM too. Both now have the iPhone 3G, and got it partly due to the new enterprise functionality.



What enterprise functionality?  

It can connect to exchange.  How about some email functionality, beyond read and reply because that's about all it can do.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2008)

Marius said:


> if an poorly written ap crashes, bricks a phone etc cause it's poorly coded apple gets the flack not the so designer. The phone is shit etc etc when it's not the fault of the phone but poor coding.


Err, you've _completely_ missed the point.

In this recent case, the program was booted off the App store not for being buggy in any way at all - it was booted off because Jobs & Co decided that it was "of limited utility to the broad iPhone and iPod touch user community."

Surely, the user should be deciding what's useful for their own phones, not Jobs?

And, when it comes to bricking phones, well, that's something Apple know about too....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> What enterprise functionality?
> 
> It can connect to exchange.  How about some email functionality, beyond read and reply because that's about all it can do.



Sorry meant exchange (was er writing about social enterprise and stopped to post  )!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 9, 2008)

Does seem daft, but this made me smile on the page you linked to.



> The "I am Rich" application developed by Armin Heinrich, a German software developer, does nothing more than display a picture of a red ruby on the iPhone screen. After initially approving the $1,000 application, Apple removed it from the store this week. Eight people managed to dish out $1,000 to buy the useless application, generating about $5,600 in revenue for Heinrich and $2,400 for Apple, which collects 30 percent of each sale on the App Store



What a top idea. I can't believe they even managed to get 8 people to fork out.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 9, 2008)

I think there should be a trial period before you actually pay for it on the app store.  I think that would make a lot more of them free and up the quality of the apps on there.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2008)

editor said:


> If you bothered to read my posts here and elsewhere you'll see I've regularly complimented Apple on their products, their design and their user interface. If I could be arsed, I could easily produce a long list of recent positive comments I've made about  Apple but is seems you're blind to them. But let's put it to the test - can you find some posts where I've criticised, say, the iBook?
> 
> But what does irk me is how people - like you - are happy to regularly play down their nasty business practices and constantly apologise for the kind of consumer-unfriendly antics you'd be quick to condemn if it were any other company doing them.
> 
> ...



I havent read all of this thread but I'll back editor up on this...... Apple have an absolutely ruthless business practice..... you'll notice this if you ever take anything back to the shop (they refused to give me a replacement for a faulty item without the original packaging...... which is against trading standards) and when i went for an interview I had to spend about an hour signing secrecy forms etc (and then in the interview all we had to do was pretend to sell a bowl of fruit!??!).. Ive also heard that apple are one of the worst for the use of recycled/recyclable material. Couple all that with sneaky release tactics, and some sub standard products on release means I'm not keen on their business ethic.....

Dont get me wrong though have a G3, a mac pro, a powerbook, an iphone and an iPod....... and I'm a complete fanboy


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I think there should be a trial period before you actually pay for it on the app store.  I think that would make a lot more of them free and up the quality of the apps on there.



I agree with this too


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2008)

sim667 said:


> ...when i went for an interview I had to spend about an hour signing secrecy forms etc (and then in the interview all we had to do was pretend to sell a bowl of fruit!??!)..


Ooh, do tell us more!


----------



## Sunray (Sep 10, 2008)

Marius said:


> if an poorly written ap crashes, bricks a phone etc cause it's poorly coded apple gets the flack not the so designer. The phone is shit etc etc when it's not the fault of the phone but poor coding.
> 
> 
> I can appreciate why apple would want to quality assure out as much of that as possible.To protect rep.



The OS should be immune to the applications it runs, if its not then Apple deservedly get the flack for writing an OS that contravenes Operating System theory created in the late 60's.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I think there should be a trial period before you actually pay for it on the app store.  I think that would make a lot more of them free and up the quality of the apps on there.



Yep, that's something I love about my Palm Centro, there's tons of apps I can trial before committing my dosh.



editor said:


> Ooh, do tell us more!



Innit!!


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2008)

Installing 2.1 now.  

Apple have been a bit more forthcoming on the updates on this.  They reckon that its 'Significantly better battery life for most users'.  I look forward to that.

http://www.apple.com/iphone/softwareupdate/


----------



## paolo (Sep 12, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Installing 2.1 now.
> 
> Apple have been a bit more forthcoming on the updates on this.  They reckon that its 'Significantly better battery life for most users'.  I look forward to that.
> 
> http://www.apple.com/iphone/softwareupdate/



Installed about an hour ago. Fingers crossed on Safari stability.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 12, 2008)

Mine is taking forever to back up before install. Ho hum.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2008)

I think this goes to prove that you can damage the screen.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2008)

Still has the bug switching off Wifi stops the GPS working at all, but now it tells you with a little pop up.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 12, 2008)

hehe


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 12, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I think this goes to prove that you can damage the screen.





I thought I was good at breaking phones. I'd love an iphone, but I'm just to much of a klutz to trust myself with it. 

That and I can only get orange where I live.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 13, 2008)

'Significantly better battery life'

Nope, I suggest that its possibly worse!


----------



## paolo (Sep 13, 2008)

Safari crashed again in the usual annoying circumstances - typing a post. Will see how it behaves over a week or so.


----------



## 43mhz (Sep 13, 2008)

Sunray said:


> 'Significantly better battery life'
> 
> Nope, I suggest that its possibly worse!



Agreed


----------



## Sunray (Sep 13, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Safari crashed again in the usual annoying circumstances - typing a post. Will see how it behaves over a week or so.



Yeah did for me as well.

I thing we might have to be looking for something like 2.5 before this gets better.

I just get this feeling that Apple are short on developers.  I Unplugged my phone at 11pm and with light use it was at 1/2 power at 5am.


----------



## paolo (Sep 13, 2008)

I'd suspect they don't have the dev armies of say microsoft, but the QA-devfix loop is either not working, or there was a management decision to push 2.0 out with known and common bugs/issues. The latter I suspect, perhaps trying to get a jump on Android with 3rd party app support.

Now I just hope they will continue fixing, and not bow to marketing driven pressure to focus on new features. I'd rather have a Safari that doesn't bin my words, than, say, cut and paste or MMS or video.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2008)

Im liking 2.1 lots. 

It's fixed all sorts of lag I was getting from having so many aps. 

I've gotten my responsive phone back


----------



## Sunray (Sep 13, 2008)

Yup crashed again on me, so what ever bugs they have fixed they haven't fixed the ones that have been irritating me. 

I am also having some doubts on the 3g data performance after the update.


----------



## moose (Sep 14, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I Unplugged my phone at 11pm and with light use it was at 1/2 power at 5am.



What on earth are you doing with it? I have had no problems with Safari, despite extensive use, and my battery lasts for 1.5 - 2.5 days with average use.


----------



## 43mhz (Sep 14, 2008)

I ran my battery completely down and gave it a full charge.. seems to have perked it up a bit


----------



## Sunray (Sep 14, 2008)

moose said:


> What on earth are you doing with it? I have had no problems with Safari, despite extensive use, and my battery lasts for 1.5 - 2.5 days with average use.



Well arn't you the lucky one.

2.5 days is fantasy.

Never got more than 1 day out of my phone, perhaps 1 1/2 if I don't use it very much at all. Generally more like 12hrs and its gasping for breath.

Safari is constantly crashing on me,  twice so far today.  1st time I could see it coming as the keyboard went on a go slow.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 14, 2008)

I'm starting to think Apple have got serious quality control issues going on with the battery, because almost everyone I've met that owns an iphone is claiming wildly different times for how long they get out of it.


----------



## paolo (Sep 14, 2008)

Sunray... Yep, that typing slow down is the give away for me too.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 14, 2008)

Perhaps I was a little over zealous. After a recharge from last time, it seems to be doing a lot better.

I wonder if the battery monitor software was faulty.  Under reporting how much was left.  Now I've discharged it and recharged it after the 2.1 software it appears to be lasting a lot longer.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2008)

Possibly of some interest to iPhone users:





> Your iPhone is watching you.
> If you've got an iPhone, pretty much everything you have done on your handset has been temporarily stored as a screenshot that hackers or forensics experts could eventually recover, according to a renowned iPhone hacker who exposed the security flaw in a webcast Thursday.
> 
> While demonstrating how to break the iPhone's passcode lock in a webcast, iPhone hacker and data-forensics expert Jonathan Zdziarski explained that the popular handset snaps a screenshot of your most recent action -- regardless of whether it's sending a text message, e-mailing or browsing a web page -- in order to cache it.
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Sep 15, 2008)

editor said:


> Possibly of some interest to iPhone users:



That could be said of anything that uses flash memory to store things. Email, photos, you name it if its stored on flash memory insecurely, then its open to hackers!


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2008)

Sunray said:


> That could be said of anything that uses flash memory to store things. Email, photos, you name it if its stored on flash memory insecurely, then its open to hackers!


The difference being is that most phones aren't constantly taking screen grabs of your work. Did you not read the article?


----------



## Iam (Sep 15, 2008)

editor said:


> The difference being is that most phones aren't constantly taking screen grabs of your work. Did you not read the article?



Can you point me to a 100% secure data storage device, please?


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2008)

Iam said:


> Can you point me to a 100% secure data storage device, please?


Try as I might, I simply don't recall making any claims of the existence of 100% secure data storage devices.

I do, however, recall posting up a link that some iPhone users might find of interest.


----------



## Iam (Sep 15, 2008)

Righty-o.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 15, 2008)

It doesn't take screenshots of 'everything that you do', just what's on the screen when you minimise the app, and then only temporarily, and then only accessible via very complicated hacking only possible with physical access to the machine (ie. looking at 'data remnants' directly in memory area cleared for re-use by the OS). If I owned an iphone, I'd be more worried about someone looking over my shoulder, in terms of security risk.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2008)

Crispy said:


> It doesn't take screenshots of 'everything that you do', ....


Sorry, who made that claim?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 15, 2008)

editor said:


> Sorry, who made that claim?


Apologies.

"constantly taking screen grabs of your work"

instead please. I hope you understand my apparent misinterpretation.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Apologies.
> 
> "constantly taking screen grabs of your work"
> 
> instead please. I hope you understand my apparent misinterpretation.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Apologies.
> 
> "constantly taking screen grabs of your work"
> 
> instead please. I hope you understand my apparent misinterpretation.


Not really, seeing as no matter how spin you it, I made no claim that the iPhone recorded every single thing that you did on a phone.

Maybe you spend all day looking at one application on your phone, but I'd imagine most iPhone users are constantly switching between the phone interface text, camera, music player, browser etc etc. And if they're constantly switching apps, then they're constantly having screen grabs taken.

<edited because I can't be arsed>


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2008)

It's a shame that the iPhone doesn't do video because it would make this app a lot more useful, but I'm loving the look of the EyeMobile iPhone application for citizen journalists. I'd love to have something like this on my phone.


> EyeMobile allows users to upload images of current events from their iPhone to CBS’ mobile journalism website. Moconews observes that popular recent items include hurricane footage and pictures snapped at political events. “The application represents the first major effort from any of the TV networks since the app store launched,” it says.
> http://distorted-loop.com/2008/09/13/cbs-opens-up-for-iphone-journalism/


Unfortunately, I can't get any more details because Apple won't even let me look at their store unless I have iTunes installed, but perhaps others could report back on the app. Are there similar apps available for other news outlets?


----------



## Pingu (Sep 15, 2008)

mine arrived last week btw

i dont like it


----------



## Gromit (Sep 15, 2008)

editor said:


> Are there similar apps available for other news outlets?


 
I've seen a submit to BBC option on something but i can't remember what.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 15, 2008)

Pingu said:


> mine arrived last week btw
> 
> i dont like it


why not?

(not saying you *should* like it!)


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2008)

iHandbags ahoy!  3's coming out fighting, saying that, "Apple was wrong to pick O2 for 3G iPhone," adding that "The iPhone is not on the right network, a handset is only as good as its operator.’ 

http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/3_says_O2_wrong_network_for_iPhone.html


----------



## Kanda (Sep 15, 2008)

editor said:


> I can't get any more details because Apple won't even let me look at their store unless I have iTunes installed



Try http://store.apple.com/uk

It's quite simple.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 15, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Try http://store.apple.com/uk
> 
> It's quite simple.


That's not the app store


----------



## Kanda (Sep 15, 2008)

Crispy said:


> That's not the app store



I know it's not. It IS the store though, you can see it without iTunes.

App store here: http://www.apple.com/iphone/appstore/


----------



## Gromit (Sep 15, 2008)

editor said:


> iHandbags ahoy! 3's coming out fighting, saying that, "Apple was wrong to pick O2 for 3G iPhone," adding that "The iPhone is not on the right network, a handset is only as good as its operator.’
> 
> http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/3_says_O2_wrong_network_for_iPhone.html


 
I tend to agree.

A Porsche is no good on a dirt track no matter how much engineering has been put into it doing 160 mph.

O2's network is shite.


----------



## Iam (Sep 15, 2008)

3's is hardly any better, though.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 15, 2008)

3's network is better?  I think not.

I'm not so sure any of them have a great 3G network.   Wandering round London yesterday, the inclusion of the BT Openzone wifi hotspots in my contract means that I am very often browsing on a wifi connection.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 15, 2008)

Sunray said:


> 3's network is better? I think not.
> 
> I'm not so sure any of them have a great 3G network. Wandering round London yesterday, the inclusion of the BT Openzone wifi hotspots in my contract means that I am very often browsing on a wifi connection.


 
What i want to know is why i have access to the cloud network but not O2 wifi zones in London?!!


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Try http://store.apple.com/uk
> 
> It's quite simple.


It's a bit confusing though: when you go to the UK iPhone page and the only way you can view any of the listed 'top apps' is a "View in iTunes" link - which then brings up the error. It's the same story on the iPhone app home page too.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 15, 2008)

That link fires up iTunes.

If its not installed its going to error.  Poorly handled.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 15, 2008)

Well, thats a pleasant surprise.  Since that uber battery death in 6hrs event I am now at the end of day two and I am only 1/2 into the battery life.

Seems like Apple have fixed that issue.  This means with my APC I can go at least 6 days no problems.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Sep 15, 2008)

I have just been installing some cool apps on my ipod touch. Look for an app called air sharing. It sets up your ipod/iphone as a server you can view from mac, linux, windows or browser. It features authentication and you can drag and drop files on to it. You can then view these files (most popular formats) on the device and share between other devices.
It costs 

$6.99 but for two weeks they are giving it away free.


----------



## WWWeed (Sep 15, 2008)

To be honest I've been greatly dissapointed by 3G in general. In terms of voice I swear the 3G UTMS just isnt as reliable or robust, and its nothing to do with the device or network. 

I'm on my third 3G phone and in my experience (on my past and on my current phone) 3G UTMS seems to have poor signal stability, I often experience bad signal, signal drop outs, and people complaining they go straight through to answerphone when my phone is on, fully charged, and has a strong signal. The only solution is to switch back to GSM which solves all of the problems.

I'm now at the point where I only have 3g switched on, if I'm using the internet or am making or expecting a video call. Its a waste of battery if your not using any of that anyway.........

and just so this isnt a complete de-rail, Does anyone know if the iphone will allow you to switch between 3G and 2.5G??


----------



## Pingu (Sep 15, 2008)

Crispy said:


> why not?
> 
> (not saying you *should* like it!)




no mms, signal drops big time when i go indoors for some reason, the bkuetooth works when it wants to and the battery life is woeful. other than that though its snazzy - just no use to me as a phone\pda\whatever


----------



## moose (Sep 15, 2008)

editor said:


> It's a shame that the iPhone doesn't do video because it would make this app a lot more useful, but I'm loving the look of the EyeMobile iPhone application for citizen journalists. I'd love to have something like this on my phone.


Have you looked at cbseyemobile.com ?

Also CNN have a similar site called ireport.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 15, 2008)

Marius said:


> What i want to know is why i have access to the cloud network but not O2 wifi zones in London?!!



O2 is Bethere and I suggest thats just peoples private internet connections.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 15, 2008)

Pingu said:


> no mms, signal drops big time when i go indoors for some reason, the bkuetooth works when it wants to and the battery life is woeful. other than that though its snazzy - just no use to me as a phone\pda\whatever



Have you upgraded it to version 2.1 of the firmware.?  Signal is 5 bars,  up from 1,and I've not dropped a call since. Heading into day three and I'm only showing 1/2 gone.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2008)

If you're quick, you may be able to get this excellent sounding podcast app that Apple don't want users to enjoy:
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10042127-2.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2008)

Here's an opportunity for you iPhone owners - Rob at Hobbyist Sofware is looking for beta testers. He's written some great programs for Palm, so this might be worth a go!


> Hi Folks, Calling all iPhone users.... Hobbyist applications have always relied on valiant beta testers. I'm starting to play with some iPhone coding and I'm going to need beta testers here too. Unfortunately, unlike Palm OS, I'm not allowed to simply pass out apps for testing, but instead I need to register any beta-testing device in advance.
> 
> So - if you would like to help testing new apps then please step forward. All I can promise you is bugs galore, and the opportunity to help shape new Hobbyist applications! If you have an iPhone or iPod Touch and will be willing to do some serious testing, then please apply to join my iPhone Beta group at http://groups.google.com/group/hobbyist-iphone-beta
> 
> And to those who don't have an iPhone. Fear not, I am a long way away from abandoning Palm! (apart from everything else, it is a much more open system to work in!)


----------



## Sunray (Sep 16, 2008)

Phone finally ran out of juice. 

Thats approaching 3 days and i've been using it quite a lot at work for music.   Thats not so far off the distance I got for my K800i and given that its actually 100 times more useful, I think thats a huge win!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 17, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Phone finally ran out of juice.
> 
> Thats approaching 3 days and i've been using it quite a lot at work for music.   Thats not so far off the distance I got for my K800i and given that its actually 100 times more useful, I think thats a huge win!



have u go 3g turned on or off?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 17, 2008)

Wifi and 3g are switched on. I like the seamless connection changing esp when out and about in London, quite surprising how often I am on wifi there.

I'm sure it was someone on here recommended Air Share but couldn't see who.  Well done that man!  A very cool application.  My iPhone now appears as a network drive once I am in wifi range.  Its a paid for application but they are giving it away for a week or two I think.  Download it now.


----------



## moose (Sep 17, 2008)

Glad your battery's sorted now.  I love Air Sharing - got it yesterday and it's been really useful already.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 19, 2008)

This Is Why iPhone Developers Put Up With All the, Well, How Shall We Say It?, Bullshit From Apple

$250,000 from a $5 app. That's one shedload of cash...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2008)

Yep and it wont change while there's that much money to be made...


----------



## Sunray (Sep 19, 2008)

In case nobody has done it, I suggest creating and then deleting a note.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2008)

The lack of storage space is a big factor stopping me getting an iPhone but that may change soon if this is true. My contract at T Mobile is up in a couple weeks, my iPod is on it's last legs...



> We're not particularly inclined to believe them, but the whispers that Apple is about to bump the top-end iPhone capacity to 32GB are getting harder to ignore -- especially since 8GB inventory is drying up, leading to speculation that's it's going to be dropped as soon as next week. We think the timing's a little odd on the heels of the Let's Rock iPod refresh, but considering the rampant speculation that Apple was forced to bump the nano to 16GB and drop the "limited edition" 4GB model entirely at the last minute in response to the new Zune lineup we suppose it makes competitive sense. AppleInsider also says customers will once again get the option to activate in-home, but we haven't heard anything about that -- we'll see what happens in the next few days.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 21, 2008)

Crumbs. Does anyone else currently do a 32GB flash MP3 player/phone/camera/gadget?


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Crumbs. Does anyone else currently do a 32GB flash MP3 player/phone/camera/gadget?


Even your 'umble Treo 680 can take a 32 GB memory card now, along with quite a few WM phones.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 21, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The lack of storage space is a big factor stopping me getting an iPhone but that may change soon if this is true. My contract at T Mobile is up in a couple weeks, my iPod is on it's last legs...



Slightly irritating, but when they hir 128Gb full annoyance kicks in until I see the price which will be >!<


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2008)

Looks like this is gaining credence...








> Apple Insider in reporting that a new option has popped up in US-based Apple (Retail) Stores: Home. Previously, the only options were Upgrade existing iPhone, New AT&T Single, New AT&T Family, and Additional AT&T Line. They conjecture this may mean a new, contract-free, unlocked take your iPhone 3G home and do what you want with it. They rightly point out that this is already an option in some countries which require unlocked handsets by law, though the price is typically as astronomic as the freedom that comes with it. Will this happen? And will it be “unlocked” meaning it can run on other US carriers only (i.e. T-Mobile), or truly SIM unlocked to run with any card, in any county, around the GSM world? We’d love it, but we’ve been learned not to let our expectations get ahead of corporate avarice before…
> 
> Also, they point to a possible capacity bump in time for the holidays. With 8GB supplies running low, they say, 32GB might just be on the horizon. This, of course, would require Apple to switch from the current NAND flash chips they’re using, which max out at 16GB on the iPhone and 32GB on the iPod Touch (which lacks the radios and hence has double the space for the memory). Apple bought tons of the old NAND chips before the 3G slipped, and we haven’t seen any rumblings of them ordering the higher capacity ones yet, but the same thing did happen last year, so…


----------



## editor (Sep 21, 2008)

$1,099.00. Lol.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2008)

That's the unlocked price. Wasn't the Nokia N95 something like a $1000 dollars unlocked at one point?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 21, 2008)

What's the difference between the flash memory in an iphone and in an SD card? A 32GB SD card isn't that expensive, so why is the higher capacity iphones/ipods that much more?


----------



## Gromit (Sep 22, 2008)

More bad news for Apple

Killer phone chargers


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2008)

Oops! Jobs and Co have banned another useful app from the iPhone but the good news is that you're still good to go for pretend lighters and fake pints of beer.

http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2008/09/21/another-useful-tool-banned-from-the-iphone-app-store/


----------



## Crispy (Sep 22, 2008)

This is starting to get ridiculous


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2008)

Crispy said:


> This is starting to get ridiculous


Still, the first Android phone is set to launch today...

*edit: it's tomorrow @ 3.30pm.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Oops! Jobs and Co have banned another useful app from the iPhone but the good news is that you're still good to go for pretend lighters and fake pints of beer.
> 
> http://www.iphoneatlas.com/2008/09/21/another-useful-tool-banned-from-the-iphone-app-store/



Ive defended apple quite a bit but seriously that's out of order.

What's the difference between that ap and jumping to Gmail online through the Google ap say. Apart from it being quicker and using less bandwidth?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 22, 2008)

Yep out of order but hardly a massive deterent from buying an iPhone...


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2008)

Marius said:


> What's the difference between that ap and jumping to Gmail online through the Google ap say. Apart from it being quicker and using less bandwidth?


According to the author, you can access multiple Gmail accounts, see threaded views and google contacts, archive (quickly), star messages and other functionality missing from Apple’s Mail.app.

I can't see why iPhone users shouldn't be able to choose what email client they prefer to use and I'm baffled why Apple elect to block  innovation.


----------



## untethered (Sep 22, 2008)

You know how Apple have done really well with their digital music players, those little iPods?

I reckon they could repeat that success in the mobile phone market which has traditionally suffered from unimaginative design and poor usability.

With their flair for stunning contemporary design and canny marketing, Apple could really be onto a winner here. They'd certainly give Nokia and SonyEricsson a run for their money!

So when are we going to see a nice shiny MacPhone or MacPhone Pro from the boys in Cupertino?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 22, 2008)

That app is only useful if you have multiple Gmail accounts and need to switch between them.
Otherwise you may as well just create a bookmark icon for Gmail which gives you everything except the account switching.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 22, 2008)

editor said:


> According to the author, you can access multiple Gmail accounts, see threaded views and google contacts, archive (quickly), star messages and other functionality missing from Apple’s Mail.app.
> 
> I can't see why iPhone users shouldn't be able to choose what email client they prefer to use and I'm baffled why Apple elect to block  innovation.



Once someone writes a lovely email client, its nearly impossible to for apple to recover that ground, it becomes the iPhone email standard app.  That would hurt their supposed 'enterprise phone' (haha) status. I don't think Apple are exactly overflowing with developers so it really would be a blow to them for someone to kill off their email client.  

Apples own email client is so especially shit any developer worth his salt could do it without too much trouble.  It also makes it an App store juicy ripe plum for the picking.  I'd consider paying $1 for a decent email client.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 22, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> That app is only useful if you have multiple Gmail accounts and need to switch between them.
> Otherwise you may as well just create a bookmark icon for Gmail which gives you everything except the account switching.



Yep, hence my comment above. Seriously, how many potential iPhone users are going to be put off by the lack of ability to switch between multiple gmail accounts?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 22, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, hence my comment above. Seriously, how many potential iPhone users are going to be put off by the lack of ability to switch between multiple gmail accounts?



I don't think the point is that it will put people off, more about highlighting Apples rather shitty attitude to certain software developers.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> That app is only useful if you have multiple Gmail accounts and need to switch between them.
> Otherwise you may as well just create a bookmark icon for Gmail which gives you everything except the account switching.


Users should be able to set up their phones how _they want_, not how the phone manufacturer thinks they _shoul_d set it up.

Why shouldn't users have a choice of mail apps to choose from? If Apple's default email client is so good then why should they be bothered to ban third party products?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 23, 2008)

editor said:


> Why shouldn't users have a choice of mail apps to choose from? If Apple's default email client is so good then why should they be bothered to ban third party products?


Sure, but the app in question is distinctly NOT an email client. It opens the WebKit web browser with a default link to Gmail. That's all.

I'm not aware of any alternate mail clients which are either available for the iPhone or have been rejected. Similarly there don't appear to be any other web browsers right now, other than apps using the embedded WebKit. Maybe Opera have ported their browser to the iPhone and are keeping quiet that Apple are not making it available, but I doubt it.

There are alternative calendars, notepads, contacts, clocks, calculators, weather and stocks apps. These are all relatively easy to write, maybe that's why we've not seen any alternate mail clients yet.

I'm not defending Apple's frankly cranky selection criteria, just pointing out that this particular app isn't worth getting excited about, though it has slightly more functionality than the pointless $999 app which Apple allowed and then withdrew.

There are some good points to the AppStore, in that you get notified of updates automatically without having to visit each vendors website, and it makes it easy for software developers to get paid.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> There are some good points to the AppStore, in that you get notified of updates automatically without having to visit each vendors website, and it makes it easy for software developers to get paid.


But the point is: should the phone manufacturer have *absolute control *over what users can and can not install on the phone they've spent their money on?

Do you really think this is the way that the mobile industry should be progressing because it worries the fuck out of me.


----------



## Rainingstairs (Sep 23, 2008)

I'm happy with my iphone  see--->
but beggars can't be choosers cause they bleed the bejesus out of the US market for every cent, knowing that we're the type of consumers that will throw out our 3 month old phone cause a even newer.better.shinier.faster.etc version just got released.

check it like, did this happen there? We had the iphone that came out around March 2007. no 3G like $400 for 8gb...clunky and well, I wasn't all up in line  buying it.

Then a year later a new faster better version gets released with twice the memory at half the price. Why didn't they just skip the beta-max all together and go straight to the real deal


----------



## Sunray (Sep 23, 2008)

editor said:


> But the point is: should the phone manufacturer have *absolute control *over what users can and can not install on the phone they've spent their money on?
> 
> Do you really think this is the way that the mobile industry should be progressing because it worries the fuck out of me.



I think its specific to Apple and you've yet to convince me that its any different to the consoles which have been that way forever. If you don't want it don't buy one.  Its a trade off over their autocratic regime and the functionality the phone gives you, which I do think is the best phone I've owned by miles even with all its faults.

I'm hopeful that over time Apple will get fed up with the constant criticism and be much more relaxed.  Certainly for free applications.

Android is showing that this isn't the way that it will go.  Certainly if its a truly open platform.  Release today did you say?


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I think its specific to Apple and you've yet to convince me that its any different to the consoles which have been that way forever.


You're not comparing like with like. Consoles have nothing to do with the mobile industry - no other phone manufacturer has tried to introduce the restrictive practices that Apple did.

The way that people are forced to go through endless ridiculous jailbreaking cycles while risking having their phone broken j_ust so that they can install useful apps_ is truly ludicrous and it sets a terrible precedent.

You've bought the phone and you should be able to install what you want. No matter how pretty the iPhone is, that doesn't stop Apple's restrictive practices being deeply concerning for the future of the industry. 

I hope Android spanks its ass and teaches Apple that open, non proprietary systems offering the consumer real choice is the future.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 23, 2008)

editor said:


> You're not comparing like with like. Consoles have nothing to do with the mobile industry - no other phone manufacturer has tried to introduce the restrictive practices that Apple did.
> 
> The way that people are forced to go through endless ridiculous jailbreaking cycles while risking having their phone broken j_ust so that they can install useful apps_ is truly ludicrous and it sets a terrible precedent.
> 
> ...




All the phones before the iPhone I've used were closed devices.  As this is the 1st phone I've had which has the ability to run 3rd party applications coupled with a very impressive software order/delivery service. I've nothing else to compare it with, consoles were the closest fit, the Xbox Live service for the 360 being the only other mass market device like it.   

If it was a shit device then its gonna fail, but its actually pretty decent so I can take that side of things to some extent.

What is needed is some decent competition for this in terms of ease of use. Or size in the case of an N95, o.m.g. picked one up the other day, thats not a phone thats a house brick!


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Sunray said:


> All the phones before the iPhone I've used were closed devices.  As this is the 1st phone I've had which has the ability to run 3rd party applications coupled with a very impressive software order/delivery service.


It may be impressive to you, but the notion that_ all_ software has to be approved solely by the manufacturer and can only purchased through their own store (or face the possibility of an intentionally knackered phone/broken warranty), with the phone only available on a single network sets a hideous precedent for consumers.

Can't you see that?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 23, 2008)

The precedent has already been set though. Most phones have been locked down since the beginning. So it's a shame that Apple won't open up the phone to all comers, but it's not like they've stepped into a wonderful free world and put the clamps on. It's business as usual. Shitty business as usual, but nothing different.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I don't think the point is that it will put people off, more about highlighting Apples rather shitty attitude to certain software developers.



But if it's not going to make a difference to anyone other than a bunch of ranting geeks on the net who really cares?


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2008)

Crispy said:


> The precedent has already been set though. Most phones have been locked down since the beginning.


Not if you're talking about smartphones. And I've never heard of a phone manufacturer intentionally trying to bork people's handsets before.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 23, 2008)

editor said:


> It may be impressive to you, but the notion that_ all_ software has to be approved solely by the manufacturer and can only purchased through their own store (or face the possibility of an intentionally knackered phone/broken warranty), with the phone only available on a single network sets a hideous precedent for consumers.
> 
> Can't you see that?



Its very impressive technology the app store. Very simple to use and buy stuff. How its used is meh to me, its not ideal no but its not killing off application development.  Application overload on there now.  So many it needs a bit of an overhaul.

I can always buy an android phone, if I get utterly pissed off.  I can guarantee it'll not be as nice and its not an iPod, which is the reason I got the iPhone.   The android not being a iPod will have a clunky UI for music 100% guaranteed, nearly 9 years after the iPod nobody has really challenged the original iPod and Apple have moved on and consolidated their position.

Competition is a win win thing for me in this respect, the release of a 1/2 decent phone from Google can only focus Apples mind. I get better software for my phone, perhaps sooner.  If they don't innovate and push the platform forward I can jump ship in a year or so. More mature, perhaps other phones by then anyway.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2008)

Pretty much agree with that, Android will do for Apple what Apple has done for other, non Palm, smartphone makers...


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Competition is a win win thing for me in this respect, the release of a 1/2 decent phone from Google can only focus Apples mind. I get better software for my phone, perhaps sooner.


The G1 is _way_ better than 'half-decent' and it's already besting the iPhone with some of its apps and features - have you seen the street view feature with compass?

And, best of all, there's none of Apple's control freakery going on, so I'd say that the future looks very bright for Android - and there's still a lot more phones to come, so expect a ton of applications and innovation soon.

It's great news that an open source, highly capable alternative has risen up to challenge Apple's proprietary and restrictive practices.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 24, 2008)

Makes Palm's new OS look dead in the water though.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> Makes Palm's new OS look dead in the water though.


Yep. I really can't see how they can pull back from this, with the company being squeezed tight between Apple's vast reservoirs of development cash and the huge rate of development that's going to follow the launch of Android.

Add the consumer-friendly iTunes and the even cheaper Amazon music  distribution channels to the mix and I really can't see much space for Palm to differentiate themselves.

With great timing, Palm have just announced that the release of the new OS has been hauled back to mid 2009. I'd hate to see them go because the market needs great innovators like Palm, but I wouldn't be buying shares in them right now.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 24, 2008)

Ah well there's always this or maybe this or maybe a PalmOS emulator for Android.

Why Palm didn't just join the Android club is a mystery. Maybe they'll do that now, before it's too late.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

The Palm emulator was - you guessed it - banned off the iPhone, and they won't work with app data desktop conduits which makes them totally useless for me.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Oh dear.


> Apple goes Big Brother on App Store rejects
> Rubbish iPhone developers get stern warning
> 
> Apple has decided that enough is enough over people publishing the reasons they have had their applications rejected from the App Store.
> ...


----------



## Dask (Sep 24, 2008)

Edit: oops sorry posted in the wrong thread:


----------



## nick h. (Sep 24, 2008)

Here we go again.  Mac users have been blindly defending Apple's restrictive practices for 20 years while PC users have been enjoying more apps and more power for less money. Now we've got iPhone fanbois already dismissing Smartphone users as 'geeks' who are making a fuss about nothing when they complain about Apple trying to bully small companies out of business. Apple is as greedy and wicked as IBM was in the '70s and they'll get their come-uppance in the phone market. They won't be able to defeat the combined might of Microsoft, Google, Nokia, HTC and all the other hardware companies. Not a chance. 

The naivety of the iPhone fans is hilarious - they actually think the iPhone is new. Ignorance is bliss. I've had a Windows smartphone (an HTC Blue Angel www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/18/review_htc_blue_angel/) with touchscreen, wi-fi, bluetooth, mp3, Office, video, blah blah blah* since 2005*! It runs tons of freeware without Mr Gates trying to interfere. I'm still using it - it does a great job. I would never buy an iPhone until Jobs gets his head out of his arse.  And I doubt there will ever be any need, with such great products from HTC, Nokia and now Google. 

The iPod story is equally hilarious. People buy them just because they look pretty and the glossy magazines say they're cool. So you get stuck with a proprietary platform which rips you off, gives you crummy sound quality and tries to take over your PC. 

The mass market gets the products it deserves I suppose.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 24, 2008)

I used to have a WM device too. It was painful to use. The interface was like desktop windows, except you had to use a tiny stylus to pick away at things with.
The iphone and the ipod aren't good because they do lots of things, they're good because they do a smaller amount of things very slickly and intuitively. My mum can use itunes and ipod without any help from me at all. This is unprecedented in the world of technology, and it's down to Apple's UI expertise. I bought an ipod because I found itunes to be the most friendly and intuitive way of managing my music, and the ipod to have the simplest easiest interface. Not because some style mag told me to.


----------



## nick h. (Sep 24, 2008)

Ok, that is all true. But your mum is getting pretty poor value for money. She could be getting the same thing much more cheaply. It's a shame that Apple's UI expertise comes at such a price. 

BTW, I lost my smartphone stylus yonks ago, but my fingernail does the job. And the blue angel has a full qwerty keyboard, which helps. But then I've been using DOS/Windows for 25 years so I don't find Apple products especially easy to learn.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 24, 2008)

editor said:


> The G1 is _way_ better than 'half-decent' and it's already *besting the iPhone with some of its apps and features - have you seen the street view feature with compass?*
> 
> And, best of all, there's none of Apple's control freakery going on, so I'd say that the future looks very bright for Android - and there's still a lot more phones to come, so expect a ton of applications and innovation soon.
> 
> It's great news that an open source, highly capable alternative has risen up to challenge Apple's proprietary and restrictive practices.



Simply because Google updated all the Google Map applications except for the iPhone.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Simply because Google updated all the Google Map applications except for the iPhone.


Actually, no other phone has the same street map/compass features yet, and with Google's immense clout in the search/mapping market there could be some more real innovation on the way - and you can expect the Android OS to get first dibs on the goodies as they come through. Street view currently only works on Blackberry and some Java phones.

Have you seen the compass feature in action? It's excellent and adds to what is easily one of the best mobile apps ever written for all platforms.


----------



## Iam (Sep 24, 2008)

nick h. said:


> Here we go again.  Mac users have been blindly defending Apple's restrictive practices for 20 years while PC users have been enjoying more apps and more power for less money. Now we've got iPhone fanbois already dismissing Smartphone users as 'geeks' who are making a fuss about nothing when they complain about Apple trying to bully small companies out of business. Apple is as greedy and wicked as IBM was in the '70s and they'll get their come-uppance in the phone market. They won't be able to defeat the combined might of Microsoft, Google, Nokia, HTC and all the other hardware companies. Not a chance.
> 
> The naivety of the iPhone fans is hilarious - they actually think the iPhone is new. Ignorance is bliss. I've had a Windows smartphone (an HTC Blue Angel www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/18/review_htc_blue_angel/) with touchscreen, wi-fi, bluetooth, mp3, Office, video, blah blah blah* since 2005*! It runs tons of freeware without Mr Gates trying to interfere. I'm still using it - it does a great job. I would never buy an iPhone until Jobs gets his head out of his arse.  And I doubt there will ever be any need, with such great products from HTC, Nokia and now Google.
> 
> ...



Whereas MS zealots don't exist, hmmm? ^^ 

I have both an iPhone and a WM device (guess which one's utter shite?), in fact, I'm on my 4th WM device, so it's not like I haven't made an informed choice here.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2008)

LOL! Wasn't this a thread about the iPhone not about how great the Android filled GD1 is?!?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 24, 2008)

All this talk of the G1.

I can say this about the iPhone.  Its got many flaws that niggle but the experience is so far away from anything I've ever owned phone wise that what ever does take its crown is going to be an immensely impressive phone.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 24, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Your not supposed to be able to do that though, they would rather you went to the £10 pm deal on one of their modems. Still allways worked for me. Gutted where I live now I can only get orange.
> 
> 
> 
> I used to get about 324kbs, although never used it enough to find out if they monitored usage, just for the web and email.



It used to be completely unlimited, they only changed it in the last 2months.  Now you get 3gb for your £5, but you can just stick another £5 on it for another 3gb if that runs out.

TBF I was taking the piss with it when it was unlimited, I had a £30 skypephone and using it 24/7 as a permanent internet connection for £5 month. 

Got my eyes on a Skypephone S2 It's got a 3.6mb HSDPA connection plus wifi, and can be used as a wireless dongle. A mere snip at £50 if you buy a pair of em on PAYG.  More features than most smartphones and for the fraction of the price.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 24, 2008)

RD: For anyone who isn't a heavy internet user, full phone, mobile and internet for £30 in the palm of your hand is a fantastic deal. I'm amazed that thing isn't advertised to hell and back.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 24, 2008)

RaverDrew said:


> Got my eyes on a Skypephone S2 It's got a 3.6mb HSDPA connection plus wifi, and can be used as a wireless dongle. A mere snip at £50 if you buy a pair of em on PAYG.  More features than most smartphones and for the fraction of the price.



That's a bit of a turnaround for them advertising it as modem as it puts it in competition with their more expensive usb modem. Wish orange would sort their act out with mobile broadband pricing as they are the only network I can get.


----------



## RaverDrew (Sep 25, 2008)

oops I meant to make that last post in the android thread  

I even quoted global stoner from that thread as well


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 25, 2008)

Bought a v-moda Vibe Duo "headset" (headphones and in-lead mic) while over in the States as a replacement for the standard iPhone headset and they rock 

Much better sound than most other in-ear phones I've tried, nice comfortable fit and the mic switch can skip/answer/pause on the iPhone. Not sure whether they're available over here yet but worth a try if you get a chance.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> Bought a v-moda Vibe Duo "headset" (headphones and in-lead mic) while over in the States as a replacement for the standard iPhone headset and they rock


Blimey. They look fantastic. How much did they cost you?


----------



## tarannau (Sep 25, 2008)

They look very good, even if they sound much more dodgy then they are.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 25, 2008)

http://www.microanvika.com/search.asp?keywords=v-moda £75 in the UK.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 25, 2008)

They look nice. I hate the fact Apple ear phones are one size fits all. They don't fit me.

Use ordinary headphones and i lose the control mic options.

Plus why no bloody remote vollume control on the headphones still. How long have Apple been in the MP3 business and they still don't realise that different songs get recorded at different sound levels and so the user has to take the iPhone / iPod all the way out of their pocket to turn it down if the next track is too loud for the user.

Other devices have had full remote control of of their MP3 players for aaages and all Apple gives is pause and fast forward and skip?


----------



## Gromit (Sep 25, 2008)

Kanda said:


> http://www.microanvika.com/search.asp?keywords=v-moda £75 in the UK.


 


Amazon.com are doing them for $99.95 - which is about £54.

Apple's version of in-ear phones are £55.

The Vibe look sexier mind.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 25, 2008)

Marius said:


> They look nice. I hate the fact Apple ear phones are one size fits all. They don't fit me.
> 
> Use ordinary headphones and i lose the control mic options.
> 
> ...



I like that design decision.  You can barely tell its a mic/button.  Its a fairly minimal phone, having just 2 buttons so putting a huge controller clip would be someone against the grain.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 25, 2008)

editor said:


> Blimey. They look fantastic. How much did they cost you?


$99 in the Apple Store, so probably available cheaper in some places.

Having said that, the Jawbone II noise-cancelling Bluetooth headset was cheaper in the Apple Store than the other outlets I tried. That's a funky piece of kit too. I'm sure that I'm mostly attracted by the fact that they have "NoiseAssassin" technology


----------



## nick h. (Sep 25, 2008)

editor said:


> Blimey. They look fantastic.



So the sound quality must also be fantastic. 

Are they for drooling over or putting in your ears?

The best earphones look like hearing aids.  So they're best avoided.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2008)

nick h. said:


> So the sound quality must also be fantastic.
> 
> Are they for drooling over or putting in your ears?
> 
> The best earphones look like hearing aids.  So they're best avoided.


Blimey. Tetchy. Seeing as I've repeatedly banged on about the audio quality of the Grado S60 headphones - which have all the aesthetics of a WW2 Lancaster Bomber navigator's headset - you're having a go at the wrong person chum.

look. Here's my review. http://www.urban75.org/tech/grado-sr60-headphones.html


----------



## Crispy (Sep 25, 2008)

He wasn't having a go, ed. Calm down.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2008)

Crispy said:


> He wasn't having a go, ed. Calm down.


Thank goodness you're on hand to tell me how to respond and react to posts!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 25, 2008)

Just defending my man against the man, man.


----------



## nick h. (Sep 25, 2008)

Not being tetchy, just tongue in cheek. Sorry, should have put some smileys in. 

TBF, those Grados look ultra-cool in a retro sort of way. If you want butt-ugly  for big money, try the ACS T2s. Spend £500 and everyone will think you're deaf. Which is very pleasant at the supermarket because you don't get asked 'have you got a clubcard' for the millionth time.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Just defending my man against the man, man.


But I wasn't being the man. I was being a poster, just like you.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2008)

nick h. said:


> TBF, those Grados look ultra-cool in a retro sort of way. If you want butt-ugly  for big money, try the ACS T2s. Spend £500 and everyone will think you're deaf. Which is very pleasant at the supermarket because you don't get asked 'have you got a clubcard' for the millionth time.


The Grados really are fantastic headphones, although I imagine they must lose a few fashionista sales because of their ultra old-school, non silvery looks.

I always warm to products that aren't 'upgraded' every other month. The S60s have been going for *years*!


----------



## Crispy (Sep 25, 2008)

editor said:


> But I wasn't being the man. I was being a poster, just like you.


everyone else is the man to me man. fight him wherever he stands!


----------



## nick h. (Sep 25, 2008)

Can I be the man then? My real name is Spartacus. I've always wanted to run a forum.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 25, 2008)

For this thread, you'd need to be the "iMan"


----------



## nick (Sep 25, 2008)

Iman (Arabic: إيمان) is an Islamic term usually translated as "belief or faith" 

(wikipedia)


----------



## tarannau (Sep 25, 2008)

You're missing the ipoint...


----------



## Gromit (Sep 25, 2008)

tarannau said:


> You're missing the ipoint...


 
iponts.co. uk
Awards points for online purchasing, survey completion and other activities 
which then can then be exchanged for vouchers/rewards.


----------



## nick (Sep 25, 2008)

it was a cheap iJibe at the apparently religious levels of love / hate for apple's shiny little battery eater - it obviously missed. 
As you were 



(PS I own an iphone and quite like it)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2008)

Sunray said:


> All this talk of the G1.
> 
> I can say this about the iPhone.  Its got many flaws that niggle but the experience is so far away from anything I've ever owned phone wise that what ever does take its crown is going to be an immensely impressive phone.



That's it really, if you're happy with your iPhone then those who don't like it are basically banging their head against a brick wall. 

The GD1 isn't an iPhone beater yet and won't be for some time (if ever) but it has made an already interesting smartphone market more vital just as Apple have. 

Great times for the smartphone user!


----------



## nick h. (Sep 25, 2008)

*Is an iPhone a smartphone?*

Is an iPhone a smartphone? Wikipedia sez there is no agreed definition of smartphone, which explains why the Orange SPV that I've had for nearly 4 years has been called a smartphone, a windows phone, a PPC, a PDA, an XDA and I don't know what else. 

When the iPhone was launched excited people would stop me in the street and ask whethet my SPV was an iPhone. When I explained that it runs Windows and Internet Explorer and Office and has wi-fi and bluetooth and a touch screen and handwriting recognition and an MP3 player and a video camera and was launched in 2004 they thought I was lying. 

Sorry, I'm ranting again. Where was I...oh yes, is an iPhone a smartphone? Or is a smartphone a poor man's iPhone? Why don't we just call all of them "SUPERPHONES"?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2008)

Oh man let's not do this again! One definition is devices you can install third party applications on so yeah it's a smartphone...but then so was my Nokia N73 by that...


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2008)

Even fanboys _extraordinaire_ Engadget are raging against Apple's restrictive, walled garden practices for developers:



> *Save us from Apple's groundbreaking, developer-shackling App Store*
> 
> So it seems to me, you have two possible courses of action to clean up this mess, Apple: one, the bare minimum of courtesy and respect for its developers, and the other, full-on-righteous. If absolutely nothing else, you need to post some very clear, very easily interpreted guidelines as to what will and will not fly in the App Store.
> 
> ...


----------



## Crispy (Sep 25, 2008)

Damn right.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Damn right.


Must be a right pain to spend ages writing an app for the iPhone and then not only have it rejected, but then be barred from openly discussing why it was banned.

A bit like writing a _killa_ reply here only for your browser to crash when you hit send, if you will.

Edit: Actually, it would be more like posting up a fantastic reply only to have the mods remove it and ban you from publicly asking why it was deleted.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2008)

I wonder if Apple will cave?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2008)

*Android Welcomes App Store's Rejects With Arms Wide Open*

Well if this continues they just might:



> Disgusted with Apple's seemingly arbitrary and restrictive App Store policies, some developers have been thinking about dumping their iPhone projects in favor of Google's open mobile platform, Android.
> 
> After being rejected by Apple, coder Alex Sokirynsky said he'd be an Android convert. The wannabe iPhone developer recently gained widespread attention when Apple rejected his application Podcaster -- because it allegedly "duplicates" iTunes. Then, Sokirynsky tried to sell his application through other means, and Apple shut down his operation. As a result, Sokirnysky on Tuesday announced in a blog post (before removing it, presumably in light of Apple's new non-disclosure policy regarding rejections) that he would cease developing applications for Apple and code for Android instead.
> 
> "All I wanted was for someone from Apple to contact me and tell me how we can work it out so that I get into the app store," he wrote. "Instead, Apple took the cowards way out by simply disabling features in my developers portal. This seems like a childish move for a company that has been proving such high-quality service and products in the past.... I plan to make Podcaster for the Android operating system. At least there, I will be welcomed instead of being walked all over."


----------



## Sunray (Sep 25, 2008)

It's a huge own goal in the end. Nobody will develop anything substantial for it because they have introduced an element of risk into the process. The store is full of irrelevant apps that nobody really wants, if they are committed to making a profit on that aspect of the phone then at the very least a clear statement of intent is required.

I get the real feeling that operators are wary on having phones with unlimited data that can do voip on their network. Totally bypasses their charging model.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 26, 2008)

I can se why they are wary, but its a bit of a pain in the arse. To run skype on my mobile I'd either have to pay skype to call another mobile, which works out more then my included mins cost me. If I want to do it skype to skype, we both need to leave skype running which eats phone battery.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 26, 2008)

viop isn't really skype. Thats just one version.  VIOP is a standard way of doing voice over the internet. There are many providers with very very low charges.  As you pay nothing to receive calls you don't need have a incoming number, when you make a call, fire up the app and away you go, cheaper than a land line.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 26, 2008)

Fair enough then, I can see why they wouldn't want it running.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 26, 2008)

If you were to have a proxy at home on you machine you could run it over a secure connection on port 80 (the address web servers use) which the operator couldn't detect or block.

You could probably do this with a WM6 phone already.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 26, 2008)

My E61 has settings to configure VOIP in its menus, although never tried, I assume that orange would block it though. I've got fring running on it, so might try and make a skpe call and see what happens.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 26, 2008)

I've been sending my complains,err enhancment requests to Apple on their feedback form.  These are my requests so far.



Mark all as read on the email client. 
Do not load images in HTML emails, it makes it a spammers heaven and therefore useless.
Forward SMS message
Edit any sms message
Send map directions as SMS message
Send group SMS message to each recipients conversation, get rid of grouped SMS messages.
Delete the SMS edit box in one go
Send and receive contacts via SMS.

What else irritates you about the iPhone?


----------



## moose (Sep 26, 2008)

No smileys in text messages. Someone sent me a nasty-sounding text which apparently was full of winking smilies, but I took it at face value and sent a scorcher back


----------



## Sunray (Sep 28, 2008)

I was in HMV yesterday and they had a display with loads of those iPod speaker stations all powered up.

None I tried worked with my phone even one that said it did, I think it must be talking about the 2g version.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2008)

Maworld are getting very concerned about Apple's control-freak policy on app development. It's an interesting article.


> *Don't Drive IPhone Developers Away, Apple*
> 
> The first issue with Apple's filtering process is that it has frustrated developers by causing delays in getting apps up on the App Store. Developers can wait weeks after submitting a finished product or update before it's rolled out to customers.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Sep 29, 2008)

editor said:


> Maworld are getting very concerned about Apple's control-freak policy on app development. It's an interesting article.



Great thing about competition is that for a few hundred quid I can go either way. 

They are scoring an own goal in the long run just at the time that the competition is hotting up.    Only thing in their favour is that most if not all the iPhone developers are Mac developers (good reason for all the candy floss on the App store) as you need a recent Mac to run the iPhone SDK.  

Mac supporters are a loyal bunch seemning happy to take any old shit.  To them it'd be like switching support from Newcastle to Sunderland.


----------



## WWWeed (Sep 29, 2008)

Sunray said:


> What else irritates you about the iPhone?



Something that really annoys me is the fact that the 3G version has GPS intergrated and NO FUCKING GPS Navigation software. Google maps IS NOT GPS Navigation software like tomtom.

I've been doing that on other smartphones for years now!

But my real gripe is the fact that the operating system so closed and about as proprietary as they come...............


----------



## Sunray (Sep 29, 2008)

WWWeed said:


> Something that really annoys me is the fact that the 3G version has GPS intergrated and NO FUCKING GPS Navigation software. Google maps IS NOT GPS Navigation software like tomtom.
> 
> I've been doing that on other smartphones for years now!
> 
> But my real gripe is the fact that the operating system so closed and about as proprietary as they come...............



Well, TomTom may well have a full version for the phone at some point.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean by closed?

Its a derivative of OSX for the Mac. SDK is available for free to download so anyone can develop for it.  Unfortunately Apple might kill your app off, but thats restrictive practice rather than a closed sysem. 

I was thinking that if Apple ban my application from the App Store, isn't that restraint of trade?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restraint_of_trade



> Contractual obligations not to trade are illegal agreements on public policy grounds unless they are reasonable in the interests of both contracting parties and of the public at large.[1] Restraint of trade mainly affects post-termination restrictive covenants in employment contracts, and restrictions on competition in contracts for the sale of businesses.


----------



## zenie (Oct 1, 2008)

I'm after a decent lether case that'll protect an iphone. Any recommendations? 

This looks nice 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Proporta-Alu-Leather-Case-Apple-iPhone/dp/B000V34B6A


----------



## Kanda (Oct 1, 2008)

zenie said:


> I'm after a decent lether case that'll protect an iphone. Any recommendations?
> 
> This looks nice
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Proporta-Alu-Leather-Case-Apple-iPhone/dp/B000V34B6A



I got one from http://www.senacases.com/


----------



## Iam (Oct 1, 2008)

All the ones I've seen look pretty shit so far, but there's a couple on that site that look ok. I'm quite tempted by one of the sleeves...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 1, 2008)

I bought a Griffin Form Elan which is a hard shell with a leather covering. I couldn't get on with the screen protector but the case is very nice.

Griffin do a pretty good variety of cases - http://www.griffintechnology.com/devices/iphone/iphone3g


----------



## Crispy (Oct 1, 2008)

Apple removes NDA for developers

http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/

For released software anyway.



> Please note that unreleased software and features will remain under NDA until they are released.



So (I think) if your app gets refused you're still not allowed to talk about it?


----------



## moose (Oct 1, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> I bought a Griffin Form Elan which is a hard shell with a leather covering. I couldn't get on with the screen protector but the case is very nice.



I've got that one, too. It bounces when you drop the phone 
I don't use the protector either, but I'm thinking of getting the Power Support crystal film cos it reduces pesky fingerprints, which drive me wild.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 2, 2008)

I use the crystal film and it stops the finger prints and protects the screen well.  I don't care about the rest of the phone but the screen being scratched would annoy me. Cases would make it too bulky. The protector scratches more easily, its plastic, but they give you two and you cant see the scratches in use.


----------



## zenie (Oct 2, 2008)

Some of those look good.

I reckon you're ok in an office enviornment without a case but BF is a builder and he wrecks phones, I did try and persuade him to just give it to me


----------



## Crispy (Oct 2, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Apple removes NDA for developers
> http://developer.apple.com/iphone/program/
> For released software anyway.
> So (I think) if your app gets refused you're still not allowed to talk about it?



Ah, what this actually means is that the whole development process is now out of NDA. Only pre-release Apple software is still covered (Beta firmware etc.)

This means normal communications between developers, tutorials, books etc. can now happen. Sanity!


----------



## Gromit (Oct 2, 2008)

I bought the Proporta crystal case.

No screen protector. The glass of the 3G seems pretty good comapred to the 2G. No scratches yet. So i may not bother. I hate the way some screen protectors make the screen look. Plus i always end up with bubbles


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Ah, what this actually means is that the whole development process is now out of NDA. Only pre-release Apple software is still covered (Beta firmware etc.)
> 
> This means normal communications between developers, tutorials, books etc. can now happen. Sanity!


It's a sensible and long overdue move. I wonder how much the announcement of Android played apart in their decision reversal.

It still looks like developers who get turned down by Apple will still be gagged though, seeing as Apple's statement notably refers to dropping the NDA for "released iPhone software." 

There now needs to be some clarity from Apple about how iPhone apps are accepted or rejected.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 2, 2008)

editor said:


> It still looks like developers who get turned down by Apple will still be gagged though, seeing as Apple's statement notably refers to dropping the NDA for "released iPhone software."



Note my correction above - after reading about this, the NDA applies to Apple software - ie. the OS and the SDK, not the developer's software.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 2, 2008)

Marius said:


> I bought the Proporta crystal case.
> 
> No screen protector. The glass of the 3G seems pretty good comapred to the 2G. No scratches yet. So i may not bother. I hate the way some screen protectors make the screen look. Plus i always end up with bubbles



I followed the instructions to the letter and didn't get any bubbles apart from one where there is a bit of dust but not on the screen.  its not quite on straight but you cant really tell its got a protector unless you look closely.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2008)

I might be getting an iPhone for free! 

It's only a 1st gen 4 gigger but and it's only a loan but still...my flat mate has one which is just gathering dust on her shelf and she just offered it to me on loan indefinitely. 

I was already thinking of switching to O2 soon so gonna do that and borrow the iPhone to try it out for a while to see how it handles as a replacement for my Centro.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 4, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I followed the instructions to the letter and didn't get any bubbles apart from one where there is a bit of dust but not on the screen.  its not quite on straight but you cant really tell its got a protector unless you look closely.



I couldn't live with it crooked. I'd take it off and try again and fuck it up.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 4, 2008)

I am getting drawn towards the iphone now... 

Been resisting but the positives seem to outweigh the negatives


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2008)

Badgers said:


> I am getting drawn towards the iphone now...
> 
> Been resisting but the positives seem to outweigh the negatives



What would you list as positives, what would you list as negatives?


----------



## Badgers (Oct 4, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What would you list as positives, what would you list as negatives?



Keeping it brief... 

Positives 
Interface is great 
Looks/feels nice to use 

Negatives 
I do not like itunes 
I like to forward text messages for work 
I like bluetoothing files 

The main reason I guess is that I have been using Sony Ericsson for so many years now and have everything in my life set up around this. So hassle and fear of change may be at the heart of my misgivings.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2008)

Hmmm only the forwarding text messages is a negative for me, I never bluetooth files (typically email them though from my phone) and don't mind iTunes. Even no text forwarding isn't a deal breaker thinking about it...


----------



## Sunray (Oct 4, 2008)

The SMS app is probably the worst application on there and if you want to forward text then forget it till they release a big update.  It doesn't do anything apart from send and receive text in a slightly nice way.

This phone is a little function lite right now.  Needs to be beefed up with some functionality that everyone has come to expect from a phone these days.


----------



## editor (Oct 5, 2008)

Now this is what I call a rip off!
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iDQ-coSHPCQ

Mind you, it's rumoured to cost half the price of the 3G iPhone, has a bigger screen (I think) and it does cut and paste! 

The interface looks pretty smooth too.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 5, 2008)

LOL. Totally. Still anything that shakes the market up is a good thing 

I'm quite liking this little programme called Fring which lets you make calls from (and to) an iPod Touch using VOIP. Has to be cheaper than an iPhone contract either way.

Demo here:


----------



## zenie (Oct 5, 2008)

Yeh I was wondering if you can use skype or VOIP on iphones. We just had it out today but it's been packed away til the protector comes, I know what he's like with phones! 

It is rather good though and I am v. jealous


----------



## Sunray (Oct 5, 2008)

Fring is nearly the dream application except it does not work on a 3g connection.  I already have 600 minutes free, I'm hardly going to be using Voip to call.

But I can now call 0800 numbers for free (02 charge me extortionately) when I am on Wi-fi, which given that my conference bridge for meetings is an 0800 number (no land line phone in the house) its an application of real use to me.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 5, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Fring is nearly the dream application except it does not work on a 3g connection.  I already have 600 minutes free, I'm hardly going to be using Voip to call.
> 
> But I can now call 0800 numbers for free (02 charge me extortionately) when I am on Wi-fi, which given that my conference bridge for meetings is an 0800 number (no land line phone in the house) its an application of real use to me.



I use it for messenger, to tell my mates to go look for their phone when I can't get through.


----------



## zenie (Oct 6, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Fring is nearly the dream application except it does not work on a 3g connection. I already have 600 minutes free, I'm hardly going to be using Voip to call.
> 
> But I can now call 0800 numbers for free (02 charge me extortionately) when I am on Wi-fi, which given that my conference bridge for meetings is an 0800 number (no land line phone in the house) its an application of real use to me.


 

Hmm...so that's a not then? 

You can shout at people on messenger though can't you? 

Can you hook i-phones up to laptops to use as modems or not?


----------



## Gromit (Oct 6, 2008)

I've been using Palringo for messenger. Supports smilees and sending pictures and voice n stuff.

You can in theory flip the sim out and use it for a laptop but the fair usage policy means that they'll do you if they catch you.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 6, 2008)

zenie said:


> Hmm...so that's a not then?
> 
> You can shout at people on messenger though can't you?
> 
> Can you hook i-phones up to laptops to use as modems or not?



No. An app that did this was pulled from the App Store.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 6, 2008)

zenie said:


> Hmm...so that's a not then?
> 
> *You can shout at people on messenger though can't you? *
> 
> Can you hook i-phones up to laptops to use as modems or not?



And just about every other messenger platform out there on Fring, voice and text on wi-fi.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 6, 2008)

Marius said:


> You can in theory flip the sim out and use it for a laptop but the fair usage policy means that they'll do you if they catch you.



Huh? How?


----------



## Fingers (Oct 6, 2008)

zenie said:


> I'm after a decent lether case that'll protect an iphone. Any recommendations?
> 
> This looks nice
> 
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Proporta-Alu-Leather-Case-Apple-iPhone/dp/B000V34B6A



be careful about the leather cases, I bought one in Hong Kong for my Ipod which I now use for my i-phone.  The leather can obstruct the sensor that can tell if it is near your face, rendering the screen blank and unable to end the call.

Hence lots of calls from friends asking why I had left four minutes of nothing on their answerphone.

Took me two months to work it out 

just a warning in case you think your iphone has gone tits up.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 6, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Huh? How?


He's talking about jailbreaking, which afaik does not require removing the sim.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2008)

Question for iPhone owners: is it possible to delete (essentially default to factory status) all data on it?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 8, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Question for iPhone owners: is it possible to delete (essentially default to factory status) all data on it?


*Settings > General > Reset > Erase All Contents and Settings*


----------



## Sunray (Oct 9, 2008)

gah!

Fring will not let you send dial tones once your connected. Hero to Zero in an instant.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 9, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Fring will not let you send dial tones once your connected. Hero to Zero in an instant.



So you can't use an iphone to go through any automated dialing system


----------



## Kanda (Oct 9, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So you can't use an iphone to go through any automated dialing system



You can, but I guess not with Fring.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> *Settings > General > Reset > Erase All Contents and Settings*



Cheers, much appreciated. Another question, can you delete specific contacts on the iPhone?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 9, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Cheers, much appreciated. Another question, can you delete specific contacts on the iPhone?


Sure.

Contacts, select the contact, Edit (top right), and there's a big ol' Delete Contact button at the bottom of the edit screen.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 9, 2008)

Kanda said:


> You can, but I guess not with Fring.



Exactly, we use a conference bridge for work on an 0800 number but you need to dial the pin once connected.  Fring allows you back to the buttons but they don't beep.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 10, 2008)

Lazy Llama said:


> Sure.
> 
> Contacts, select the contact, Edit (top right), and there's a big ol' Delete Contact button at the bottom of the edit screen.



Cheers!


----------



## Sunray (Oct 13, 2008)

Left bud on my Apple headphones has gone a bit shit. Not dead but its crackling a bit.

2 1/2 months of use.


----------



## zenie (Oct 13, 2008)

Get some aftermarket ones the ones phone companies give you are crap. 

Seen any good bluetooth handsfree kits at all?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Oct 13, 2008)

You can't use the iPhone as a modem?! That's shit.

I'd get one if it had a slide out keyboard and could be used as a modem.

Phones are shit at the moment, when will someone grab the market by the balls and release a phone that does everything?


----------



## zenie (Oct 13, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> You can't use the iPhone as a modem?! That's shit.


 
Crispy says you can....no idea what jailbreaking is mind!! 



Crispy said:


> He's talking about jailbreaking, which afaik does not require removing the sim.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 13, 2008)

Means installing a hack to allow non-official software on it.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Oct 13, 2008)

So not sleeping with 16yr old girls then? Damn...

Oh! Jail_breaking_!


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2008)

Crumbs. The iphone outsold the blackberry this last quarter. 6.9 versus 6.1 million units. (worldwide). And took twice as much in revenues. 4.2 versus 2.1 billion $.


----------



## tarannau (Oct 22, 2008)

Even more amazingly:



> Jobs said that when measured by revenues, at $4.6 billion in phone revenue Apple “has become the world’s third-largest mobile phone supplier,” after Nokia ($12.7 billion) and Samsung ($5.9 billion), and ahead of Sony Ericsson ($4.2 billion), LG ($3.4 billion), Motorola ($3.2 billion), and RIM ($2.1 billion). “Pretty amazing,” Jobs said. “Not bad for being in the market only 15 months.”



Are they including the itunes apps store revenues in there? It's a fuck of an achievement whatever.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2008)

I think that shows that those phone suppliers were resting on their laurals happily churning out one similar hand set after another, with little regard to what people actually would like from a phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2008)

Them some amazing stats, wonder if the Android phone will get anywhere near them in 15 months?


----------



## Gromit (Oct 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I think that shows that those phone suppliers were resting on their laurals happily churning out one similar hand set after another, with little regard to what people actually would like from a phone.



Nah. All apple have done is what they usually do. Take an existing product coolify the controls and add a easy to use UI. They did it with MP3 players and now a phone. 

Expect a Apple motor car next with funky but easy to use controls that make driving more fun.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2008)

And they did it with computers back in the day, tbf.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2008)

Marius said:


> Nah. All apple have done is what they usually do. Take an existing product coolify the controls and add a easy to use UI. They did it with MP3 players and now a phone.
> 
> Expect a Apple motor car next with funky but easy to use controls that make driving more fun.





Err, so what I said then.  What Apple do is identify the most common use cases and stream line them to the absolute minimum forgetting about adding bells and whistles and then make the product look cool as well.


----------



## untethered (Oct 23, 2008)

Marius said:


> All apple have done is what they usually do. Take an existing product coolify the controls and add a easy to use UI.



And that's just so easy that the other manufacturers didn't do it because they couldn't be bothered and aren't really interested in profits.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 25, 2008)

*Google Street Maps on iPod and iPhone*


----------



## Sunray (Oct 26, 2008)

I'm still thinking of a use for street view beyond it being very cool indeed.  There must be something more than being cool for all the effort Google have put in to create it. 

I have this suspicion that someone pulling the strings at Google is fascinated by it all, rather than it being something of real use.   Perhaps they're just digital gold mining for want of a better term.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> *Google Street Maps on iPod and iPhone*


I would have thought that users would have preferred the firmware 2.2 update to add copy/cut and paste text,  MMS support,  landscape mode email composition and video recording rather than Street View seeing as they're fairly basic requirements for a smartphone.

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...st-iphone-firmware-and-still-no-ctrl-c-479428


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 26, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I'm still thinking of a use for street view beyond it being very cool indeed.  There must be something more than being cool for all the effort Google have put in to create it.
> 
> I have this suspicion that someone pulling the strings at Google is fascinated by it all, rather than it being something of real use.   Perhaps they're just digital gold mining for want of a better term.



Yeah I know what you mean. It might become a practical use once additional info can be over layed onto it...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 26, 2008)

At&t are polling the iPhone users about which features they'd like to see:



> *AT&T has recently begun surveying some of its longer-term iPhone buyers asking what features they would most like to see added to the Apple handset.*
> 
> 
> The survey chiefly touches on post-purchase satisfaction with both Apple and AT&T and is described by _AppleInsider_ readers as a follow-up to a similar survey from a few months ago, or shortly after the iPhone 3G launch.
> ...









It'll be interesting to see if any of these filter their way up to Apple...


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2008)

This isn't exactly the most useful of updates, but it sure looks cool and a lot of fun:






> Google already has customized some of its Web sites for display on the iPhone, but now the company also dived headlong onto Apple's highly regarded mobile phone with a full-fledge application, a handheld version of its Google Earth geographical software.
> 
> Google Earth lets people virtually fly around a 3D view of the world made from satellite and aerial imagery mapped onto the planet's mountains and valleys. The iPhone version reproduces this core experience, downloading imagery from Google's servers as the perspective shifts and dotting the map with landmarks, photos, and other information.
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10075543-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20





Kid_Eternity said:


> At&t are polling the iPhone users about which features they'd like to see:


Considering the iPhone's phenomenal success, it's kinda funny that all of those wishlist features have been available on a ton of smartphones for _years!_


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 27, 2008)

Yep no idea why they're so slow but then the iPhone got some things right from the start that G1 owners are gonna have to wait for like desktop sync...so I guess no company has got it right in terms of form and function yet.


----------



## elbows (Oct 27, 2008)

Google Earth does look fun. Its a shame some essential are missing, but having loaded last.fm onto my iphone last night, I can say without doubt that this is the most interesting & fun device Ive ever bought.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 27, 2008)

editor said:


> I would have thought that users would have preferred the firmware 2.2 update to add copy/cut and paste text,  MMS support,  landscape mode email composition and video recording rather than Street View seeing as they're fairly basic requirements for a smartphone.
> 
> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...st-iphone-firmware-and-still-no-ctrl-c-479428



Here is my list of current software flaws with the iPhone :-

SMS doesn't
  Allow me to forward texts, 
  Edit existing text.  
  With the the proper keyboard, MMS text would be useful and could save me money, 4 free text for 1 MMS message but that can be huge.
Phone
  Send and receive contacts via text or bluetooth.  Grr.
Email
   Ability to disable images in html email (huge security flaw),
   Mark all as read. 
   Create folders

The camera's sensor is too cheap and slow for it to be able to take decent video (or even 1/2 decent pictures for that matter).  If people hadn't moaned about it being so expensive then it might have got an upgrade and video might be available.   Still if you want shitty videos you can always hack the phone.  They might get that app onto App store.

I look forward to v3 of the iPhone software.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 27, 2008)

Sunray said:


> They might get that app onto App store.


 
Apple would never approve it. Any app that makes the phone look inferior isn't going to get through. Ropey videos taken by iPhones going on youtube and looking crap would be a real embarressment.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 31, 2008)

Google Earth.

Someone with financial power at Google is definitely fascinated with seeing the globe from a height and any other way he can.  

Very interesting application that is cool and one hell of an educational tool as far as geography and where countries are.  I can't think  of a commercial use so at the moment its very municipal of Google?  Bit like public loo's of the 19th Century.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2008)

I downloaded Google Earth on to my desktop and have used it precisely once. I know it's well clever and all that but.... meh.


----------



## zenie (Oct 31, 2008)

Where is the hack for video? 

You can get them on PAYG now, if I had a spare 400 quid I'd get one


----------



## Sunray (Oct 31, 2008)

Hey I know, the iPhone version links to the GPS so if your travelling on the bus in a third world country for 20 hours, you can show people where they are? Then you can show them their houses, hopefully one will have their car parked outside when the image was taken.  That will kill 20 minutes.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 31, 2008)

zenie said:


> Where is the hack for video?
> 
> You can get them on PAYG now, if I had a spare 400 quid I'd get one



Its not a hack for Video you need to hack the phone so you can install the app as its not on the App store.  

http://www.iphonevideorecorder.com/


----------



## Gromit (Oct 31, 2008)

editor said:


> I downloaded Google Earth on to my desktop and have used it precisely once. I know it's well clever and all that but.... meh.


 
Funnily enough i DL'd once for PC and used it once.
Have DL'd it for iPhone and have used it erm just once.

Now if it was live satilite pictures with sharper focus and closer zoom I might use it. To spy on friends whilst pretending like i was a CIA agent trying to stop a terrorist.


----------



## Iam (Oct 31, 2008)

It looks quite cool... but I don't see me using it other than to go "here, look at this!"


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2008)

Mr Anti-Competition himself, Steve Jobs, has just blocked Opera Mobile on iPhone.



> Opera CEO Jon Stephenson von Tetzchner told the NY Times in a recent interview that Opera's engineers have developed a browser capable of running on the iPhone, but Apple won't let the App be released as it competes with Safari Mobile.
> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/apple-blocks-opera-mobile-on-iphone-481079


More: http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/10/30/opera-mini-denied-apple-disallows-browser-competitor-iphone/


----------



## Gromit (Oct 31, 2008)

Surely Opera knew this would happen. Why did they even bother spending money on development without speaking to Apple first?

Oh wait I know why, gets them in the media and raises their profile doesn't it.

Not that I'm saying apple are right but just pointing out that neither party are whiter than white in their motives here.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 31, 2008)

editor said:


> Mr Anti-Competition himself, Steve Jobs, has just blocked Opera Mobile on iPhone.
> 
> More: http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/10/30/opera-mini-denied-apple-disallows-browser-competitor-iphone/



What Marius said.

If you read that press release carefully,



> ... interview that Opera's engineers have developed a browser _*capable*_ of running on the iPhone, but Apple..



So you've developed Opera mobile and all this is a press release stating that you could get it to run on the iPhone, but Apple will not let you, even though anyone whos anyone in the industry knew that that was the case.


----------



## xbow's sis (Oct 31, 2008)

Sorry to sound like a complete luddite, but I'm being told that you can't forward an SMS on an iphone???? so no jokes to be sent on ??


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 31, 2008)

That's definitely the upside, yes.


----------



## xbow's sis (Oct 31, 2008)

lol!  Good point!!!


----------



## Gromit (Oct 31, 2008)

xbow's sis said:


> Sorry to sound like a complete luddite, but I'm being told that you can't forward an SMS on an iphone???? so no jokes to be sent on ??


 
Correct.



Lazy Llama said:


> That's definitely the upside, yes.


 


No MMS either, so no accidently sending yer mum rude pics from your phone instead of your GF either.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 31, 2008)

Marius said:


> Surely Opera knew this would happen. Why did they even bother spending money on development without speaking to Apple first?
> 
> Oh wait I know why, gets them in the media and raises their profile doesn't it.
> 
> Not that I'm saying apple are right but just pointing out that neither party are whiter than white in their motives here.



Yep, well said.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2008)

Sunray said:


> So you've developed Opera mobile and all this is a press release stating that you could get it to run on the iPhone, but Apple will not let you, even though anyone whos anyone in the industry knew that that was the case.


Perhaps you missed the earlier furore where developers were asking Apple to clarify the terms on which apps would be rejected? There are already apps which fall foul of their own rules on the App Store.

But if you want to defend their anti-competitive stance and blame Opera for trying to build an alternative bowser for the iPhone, you go right ahead. I don't think I'm going to be impressed though.


----------



## paolo (Nov 1, 2008)

I love Google Earth. About 1 in 20 Glastonbury festival goers used it this year, to see what the festival had to offer. Pretty good I thought, given that it was a grass roots word-of-mouth affair. Some people explored it for hours at a time. I'm now working on a monster new project, a massive mashup, completely different subject area... Head back in kml again 

The limiting thing with the Mobile version is lack of support for kml loading. Which means it's limited to the basic database of stuff. If/when they add support for 3rd parties like myself, then there'll be lots of potential for some very useful on-the-go stuff. Waay more useful than streetview.


----------



## iskande (Nov 2, 2008)

Sunray said:


> What Marius said.
> 
> If you read that press release carefully,
> 
> ...



more detail here http://daringfireball.net/2008/11/opera_app_store ... not actually relased , not actually ported , just a wrapper ...

"If what they’ve done for the iPhone is along the same lines — that they’ve gotten a Java ME runtime running on the iPhone — it’s clearly outside the bounds of the iPhone SDK Agreement."


----------



## Gromit (Nov 2, 2008)

editor said:


> But if you want to defend their anti-competitive stance and blame Opera for trying to build an alternative bowser for the iPhone, you go right ahead. I don't think I'm going to be impressed though.



I think you've missed the point. We're not defending the anti-competitive stance. Merely pointing out that Opera aren't white knights against oppression but using Apple's reputation for their own ends.

Anything that happens with regard to Apple is big news. Anything that happens to Opera is small news. How do Opera make themselves big news. We'll go to mock battle with Apple and while people are arguing on the net about it they'll be talking about us when previously we were a forgotten brand. We've all fallen for it. Its a victory for the Opera spin doctors. Fished in etc. We've been spun!


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2008)

Marius said:


> I think you've missed the point. We're not defending the anti-competitive stance. Merely pointing out that Opera aren't white knights against oppression but using Apple's reputation for their own ends.


They're just trying to compete on a level playing field. And that's good for_ all_ of us.


Marius said:


> Anything that happens with regard to Apple is big news. Anything that happens to Opera is small news.


Hello? Opera are hardly little minnows - their mobile browser is the_ most popular mobile phone browser in the world_.

More importantly, it seems that it's _faster_ than the iPhone's browser:





> Firstly, it's currently the most advanced, feature-packed mobile browser in the world for Java-based handsets. It supports multiple cached pages for seamless back-and-forward navigation, Javascript, RSS and secure connections for online shopping.
> 
> But secondly, and perhaps more impressively, it uses server-side caching, meaning before the massive full-size Web pages are crammed down your teeny GPRS data connection, they're compressed to a ludicrously small size.
> 
> ...


----------



## Gromit (Nov 2, 2008)

editor said:


> Hello? Opera are hardly little minnows - their mobile browser is the_ most popular mobile phone browser in the world_.
> 
> More importantly, it seems that it's _faster_ than the iPhone's browser:



Once again you've missed the point. I'm talking about news. Media mention. Nothing else.

How many column inches do Opera get compared to Apple? They want more and they aren't ashamed to engineer a situation thats going to give it to them.

How much have Apple spent on advertising and PR compared to Opera? Opera are to some extent piggy backing Apple's PR instead of spending money on creating their own. Very clever but none the less two faced.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2008)

Marius said:


> Once again you've missed the point. I'm talking about news. Media mention. Nothing else.


No, I think you're missing the point. Opera aren't doing this as a cheap, desperate ploy to get advertising. They're doing it because they want to compete on a level playing field and secure their commercial future by being on as many platforms as possible.

How much media attention do you think has generated anyway? Past the usual techie websites, I doubt if most people have a fucking clue what went on and it certainly hasn't been plastered all over the main media outlets. Your PR argument is a total red herring, IMO.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 4, 2008)

Looks like Opera may have been sneaky PR minded buggers after all:



> So we, along with half the interwebs, picked up a paraphrased comment by Opera’s president that pretty much indicated Apple had rejected popular mobile browser Opera Mini from the App Store.
> 
> Well, John Gruber over at Daring Fireball did some digging and found out that it just ain’t so:My understanding, based on information from informed sources who do not wish to be identified because they were not authorized by their employers is that Opera has developed an iPhone version of Opera Mini, they haven’t even submitted it to Apple, let alone had it be rejected.​


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2008)

Well, that rather depends on how weight you put on a source described as, "informed sources who do not wish to be identified because they were not authorized by their employers."


----------



## Gromit (Nov 4, 2008)

editor said:


> How much media attention do you think has generated anyway? Past the usual techie websites, I doubt if most people have a fucking clue what went on and it certainly hasn't been plastered all over the main media outlets. Your PR argument is a total red herring, IMO.


 
Techie websites. Used by their target audience.
Main media outlets. Won't run it because the general populace don't give a damn cause they use whatever their computer came with. Not their target audience.

They've hit their target audience.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 4, 2008)

editor said:


> Well, that rather depends on how weight you put on a source described as, "informed sources who do not wish to be identified because they were not authorized by their employers."


 
Hard to say.

This can now be spun one of three ways.

Whistleblower
Loose lips
Unofficial release by PR for damage limitation cause whoever opened their trap to start this messed up by going off brief and spouting duff gen. 

Unofficial sources for CCFC quoted by the Echo at one stage used to be Sam Hammam phoning up Echo reporters. Straight from the horses mouth but unofficial.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2008)

Marius said:


> They've hit their target audience.


Don't be daft. Opera is a mainstream consumer product, not some kind of niche app for techies.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 4, 2008)

editor said:


> Don't be daft. Opera is a mainstream consumer product, not some kind of niche app for techies.


 
The day it comes OEM on a PC from PC World is the day i'll believe its mainstream.

If the user has to go to a website to DL its an 'alternative' browser imo.

Safari is about the only other browser I'd consider mainstream because its OEM on Macs.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2008)

Tsk tsk. Even Apple #1 fanboys Engadget are unimpressed with this development. Still, the more they treat developers like cunts, the more likely they are to defect to an open platform like Android where the punters can decide what's "best" for their handsets.





> Oh Apple. Is it that you can't see the things you're doing, or that you simply don't care how they look? If you'll recall, few months ago Jobs and co. kicked up quite a dust storm over a seemingly innocuous application called Podcaster, which allowed you to receive over-the-air updates of new podcasts when they were released. The company rejected the app based on the grounds that it "duplicates the functionality of the Podcast section of iTunes," a claim that seemed unreasonable at the time, and should now feel downright criminal.
> 
> According to a German blog which has posted pictures of the latest beta build of firmware 2.2, Apple has included functionality which _allows you to download podcasts over-the-air_. The new addition works with both video and audio, and over 3G / EDGE and WiFi, though the size of podcasts is limited to 10MB when using the cell network.
> 
> ...


http://www.engadget.com/2008/11/06/apple-adds-ota-podcast-downloads-to-iphone-firmware-2-2-continu/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 6, 2008)

Says a lot that even they are turning on Apple but is anyone really surprised by this now?


----------



## elbows (Nov 6, 2008)

No its not surprising, but its almost totally indefensible so it will still raise eyebrows and cause a stink. Personally it does not bother me very much as a user, most people wont care that Opera is not avaialable on it, Adobe pulling the same stunt had more effect because more people want Flash on the iphone.

As a potential developer it stinks and puts me off. I will try to stick to webapps for the iphone as Apple can't control them.

This sort of stuff does stop the iphone being the ultimate device, and I do hope competitors beat Apple in the longrun. I got the iphone fully aware of its strengths and weaknesses, I do not regret the choice until the alternatives have as polished an overall user experience.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2008)

elbows said:


> This sort of stuff does stop the iphone being the ultimate device, and I do hope competitors beat Apple in the longrun. I got the iphone fully aware of its strengths and weaknesses, I do not regret the choice until the alternatives have as polished an overall user experience.


T Mobile are doing their bit to add some misery to the user experience with their upgrade antics over the G1 phone too, but at least the Android platform shouldn't suffer any Steve Jobs _"I'm in charge around here and I decide what's best "_ shenanigans.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 6, 2008)

That software might have been in the works at Apple before that guy did it, software when you are Apple and not one guy, takes time to get right. The pod cast bit of iTunes is very good so its not really surprising that they blocked it if that was the case.  

*shrug*

All boils down to what is and isn't allowed and they should be a lot more open about it.  

Apple have a history of being very tight lipped as to new hardware and software.  Obviously they don't want to give competitive advantage with new hardware etc.  With the iPhone I can't see why they are being so precious about future updates.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 6, 2008)

editor said:


> Don't be daft. Opera is a mainstream consumer product, not some kind of niche app for techies.


 
No way is it a mainstream product! 

I'll tell you what, I'll walk around 60 people in my office tomorrow and ask anyone if they know of opera. 

You'll get IT and R&D saying yes, the rest a big fat no.

I'll ask Firefox too if you want... that'll be mainstream, gaurantee it.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2008)

Sunray said:


> That software might have been in the works at Apple before that guy did it, software when you are Apple and not one guy, takes time to get right. The pod cast bit of iTunes is very good so its not really surprising that they blocked it if that was the case.


Well, it might have be in the works, Or they may have nicked the idea. Apple rejected the origina program because they said that it duplicated the functionality of the podcast bit of iTunes, but - hey! - all of a sudden it doesn't!

Either way, it's a disgraceful way to treat developers. Why bother coming up with great new ideas and apps if Apple is only going to arbitrarily reject them on spurious grounds, or just nick the idea for themselves?

And even_ if_ Apple did have a similar program already in development, what's wrong with competition?

It sucks and the more powerful Apple get, the worse it's going to get for developers and consumers. Thank fuck there's some great alternatives coming through.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2008)

Kanda said:


> No way is it a mainstream product!


It's the most popular mobile phone browser in the world. 12 Million users.

Oh, I see you're getting confused between desktop and mobile browsers.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 6, 2008)

12 million users out of the billions of mobile phones is not mainstream. firefox has around 20% penetration worldwide - now that's mainstream.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 6, 2008)

I think the App store is starting to creak under the weight of waste of time applications.  Its got probably > 10,000 applications on there now, and there are less than 5 that I think are of any real use and even those aren't so great. 

It appear that Apple don't allow press accounts, so sites like this one

http://www.appcraver.com/

have to pay for them. If that continues, even if there are applications that are good will just get drowned. 

My take on this is that Apple wants to control the things that it knows will give the phone marketability in the future, which of course are all the things that everyone would consider useful.  Apple can't market the phone based upon software that they didn't produce.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 6, 2008)

You can get a 'Browse' view of apps

http://www.macosxhints.com/article.php?story=20081104050201660

much quicker than the web-based interface


----------



## Kanda (Nov 6, 2008)

editor said:


> It's the most popular mobile phone browser in the world. 12 Million users.
> 
> Oh, I see you're getting confused between desktop and mobile browsers.


 
No, not confused at all. Everyone that works with me has a mobile phone too.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 6, 2008)

Not so useful tbh.  

I've given up going to the store these days.  Too many things, too much shit.  99% a waste of time.  That browse mode makes it easier but its just a fuck off list of stuff that you spend hours going, 'oh god' to.

The App store is failing and thats without Apples help blocking stuff.

e.g. DLR Times.  59p for an application that is available on the DLR web site for free.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 7, 2008)

Tethering (ie. using the iphone as a 3G modem) is "coming soon" according to AT&T

http://gizmodo.com/5078562/confirmed-3g-tethering-coming-to-iphone


----------



## paolo (Nov 7, 2008)

Blimey - didn't expect that.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 7, 2008)

Will never happen with O2 in the UK


----------



## elbows (Nov 7, 2008)

Marius said:


> Will never happen with O2 in the UK



Why not, is tethering not normal in the UK? I can tether the Vodafone N95 no problem, but beyond that my experience is limited.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 7, 2008)

editor said:


> Well, that rather depends on how weight you put on a source described as, "informed sources who do not wish to be identified because they were not authorized by their employers."



Will Jon Stephenson von Tetzchner, Opera’s CEO do?

The journalist who wrote the story that kicked the whole thing off, followed it up.

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/03/why-you-will-not-see-opera-on-your-iphone/



> A paragraph of my post last week about Opera Software, which makes browsers for cellphones and PCs, got a lot of notice on tech blogs. But, as often happens, the retelling of the story has created an odd snowball of misunderstanding.
> 
> I asked Jon Stephenson von Tetzchner, Opera’s chief executive, about the iPhone, after he mentioned how the Opera Mini browser was popular on other smartphones. He replied that in fact some Opera engineers had started developing an iPhone version, but the company didn’t pursue it because Apple doesn’t allow products on the iPhone that compete with its own software — in this case, the Safari browser.
> 
> ...



Unfortunately, he doesn't say _which_ clause(s) in the iPhone SDK Agreement led them to this conclusion. It's also worth noting that he's talking about Opera _Mini_ and not Opera _Mobile_; a different product and a fully fledged browser, which Mini is not according to Opera.




			
				Opera Mini FAQ said:
			
		

> Is there any end-to-end security between my handset and — for example — paypal.com or my bank?
> No. If you need full end-to-end encryption, you should *use a full Web browser such as Opera Mobile*.
> 
> Opera Mini uses a transcoder server to translate HTML/CSS/JavaScript into a more compact format. It will also shrink any images to fit the screen of your handset. This translation step makes Opera Mini fast, small, and also very cheap to use. To be able to do this translation, the Opera Mini server needs to have access to the unencrypted version of the Web page. Therefore no end-to-end encryption between the client and the remote Web server is possible.



[emphasis added]

There was some speculation that it's the section that prohibits interpreted code outside the iPhone's built-in interpreters (i.e. Opera's HTML and JavaScript interpreters)




			
				Apple iPhone SDK said:
			
		

> No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple's Published APIs and built-in interpreter(s)



However, because of the way that Opera Mini delivers its content (interpreted externally on an Opera server and compressed for delivery to the Opera Mini client on the phone, effectively as an image) this seems unlikely - the app doesn't do the interpreting, the Opera server (which is off the iPhone and therefore not covered by the SDK Agreement) does.

Since von Tetzchner explicitly states that their development version Opera Mini runs natively, the Java interpreter to support it can also be ruled out as the sticking point (hypothesised by Gruber in his blog).

We're still not exactly clear why Opera thought it wouldn't be worth pursuing the project, but it's certainly not a direct 'this competes with Safari' clause nor has Opera Mini yet been 'rejected' by Apple as stated in the original NYT article.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 7, 2008)

elbows said:


> Why not, is tethering not normal in the UK? I can tether the Vodafone N95 no problem, but beyond that my experience is limited.


 
Because they won't want to effect their dongle market and unfortunately  know that UK customers can be easily pushed around and won't exactly riot about not having it too.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 7, 2008)

I can't see what is stopping anyone buying a dongle and sticking the sim into it?  Only issue is that taking out the sim from the Phone requires tiny tool that you will lose.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 7, 2008)

Just hassle isn't it? Nice to be able to Bluetooth to the phone without having to even take it out your pocket.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 7, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I can't see what is stopping anyone buying a dongle and sticking the sim into it? Only issue is that taking out the sim from the Phone requires tiny tool that you will lose.


 
That and the fair usage policy.


----------



## paolo (Nov 7, 2008)

Opera Mini would be retrograde browser for a device with a full browser and decent bandwidth. It's proxying mechanism prevents it from running some otherwise entirely standard websites. AJAX sites in particular can suffer, and those with client side JS stuff can either be part functioning and/or provoke server round trips (I.e. Lag).

It now appears though it wasn't actually a finished thing anyway.

As one wag put it "The application that didn't exist, and noone would have wanted, that Apple would have banned. Meh."

I'm no fan of Apple's non-compete policy, but this particular story is a bit 'whatever'.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 8, 2008)

Marius said:


> That and the fair usage policy.



But they aren't going to notice unless your going mental with bittorrent and soulseek.  I suppose that Wifi thing would be very useful and that is a phone only thing. 

Always surprised how often I am in wifi in London.


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2008)

When I was commuting through the city, I managed (just about) to use the Cloud's WiFi on the bus


----------



## cybertect (Nov 8, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Always surprised how often I am in wifi in London.



You shouldn't be 

http://www.silicon.com/publicsector/0,3800010403,39328236,00.htm


----------



## iskande (Nov 10, 2008)

motorla razr no longer top selling handset : http://www.appleinsider.com/article...zr_as_most_purchased_us_consumer_handset.html

"
Apple's iPhone 3G dethroned the top-ranked Motorola RAZR as the leading handset purchased by adult consumers in the U.S. during the third quarter of the year, according to market research firm NPD.

The shift puts an end to the RAZR's three-year run atop the market, with the Motorola handset falling to the second slot, followed by Research in Motion's Blackberry Curve, LG's Rumor, and LG's enV2, respectively."


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 10, 2008)

That's an incredible rise considering the phone hasn't even been around for 2 years!


----------



## zenie (Nov 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I can't see what is stopping anyone buying a dongle and sticking the sim into it? Only issue is that taking out the sim from the Phone requires tiny tool that you will lose.


 

or have already lost


----------



## paolo (Nov 10, 2008)

That Quarter included the 3G release. I suspect people buying upgrades were counted as sales.

So, eyes forward then to Q4 results - that'll be a better indicator.


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2008)

iskande said:


> Apple's iPhone 3G dethroned the top-ranked Motorola RAZR as the leading handset purchased by adult consumers in the U.S. during the third quarter of the year, according to market research firm NPD.


According to this article, Samsung rule:


> *Samsung takes No. 1 spot in U.S. cellphone market*
> Samsung Electronics Co Ltd passed Motorola Inc in the third quarter to became the leading cellphone handset vendor in the United States, research firm Strategy Analytics said on Friday.
> 
> The research firm said handset shipments in the United States -- the largest cellphone market in the world -- defied the economic gloom and grew 6.2 percent from a year before to 47.4 million phones in the quarter.
> ...


----------



## cybertect (Nov 10, 2008)

No contradiction there, there are two different questions being answered.

iPhone is the most popular handset
Samsung sold more phones than any other manufacturer

There was a bit of a kerfuffle a few years ago when the BMW 3 series became the UK's best selling car, taking over from the Mondeo. I suspect Ford still sell more cars than BMW in the UK though. Same thing.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

Bosh! And another app bites the dust!



> Apple rejected CastCatcher 1.3 from the App Store on Monday, according to Return7 developer Amro Mousa. The reason? "CastCatcher Internet Radio cannot be posted to the App Store because it is transferring excessive volumes of data over the cellular network, which as outlined in the iPhone SDK Agreement section 3.3.15, is prohibited."
> 
> If that's Apple's policy regarding streaming radio applications, Mousa is a little puzzled, because he has already released three versions of CastCatcher with no problems since it was first released to the App Store in September. And there are several other streaming radio applications on the App Store, such as the one developed by CBS subsidiary and CNET corporate sibling Last.fm, that also operate over the cellular network using the same amount of bandwidth as CastCatcher, according to Mousa.
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10093165-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20


----------



## iskande (Nov 11, 2008)

if you read down into the comments theres this intresting gem :

"I'm going to leave out names, but I was able to talk to actual Apple iPhone Team programmers about these types of situations. The app I questioned them about the most was the Podcaster rejection.

While the programmers in question would be specific about the exact reasoning for the podcaster rejection, the programmers did say that it's not why people think. He then went on to comment on how had the developer simply chose to communicate with Apple, instead of taking the issue to the media, he could very well have gotten his app on the App Store. Instead he chose to break the NDA he had agreed to between him and Apple. As soon as he broke the NDA, there is nothing Apple can do. Policy is they're cut-off cause they can't be trusted to be confidential.

So with that said, the developer of CastCatcher is essentially making it much harder on themselves by using the media to apply pressure on Apple. Based on personal knowledge this could all be resolved with simple networking techniques. Go to Apple's Developer Conferences. They have 1 big one every year and many small ones around the world the rest of the year. Not only do you learn great techniques and best practices, but the best asset is the direct networking with Apple. The people that create and run the systems. They help you get through that system when you need it."

always at least two sides to anything !


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

iskande said:


> While the programmers in question would be specific about the exact reasoning for the podcaster rejection, the programmers did say that it's not why people think.


Oh well, that's explained it.  Developers should know their place, shut the fuck up and never dare to speak to the media for fear of upsetting their overlords Apple.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Oh well, that's explained it.  Developers should know their place, shut the fuck up and never dare to speak to the media for fear of upsetting their overlords Apple.



It's an NDA. They broke it


----------



## Gromit (Nov 11, 2008)

Don't like how a company do business then don't do business with them then. Simple.

However if you sign up to NDA's cause you think you are going to make loads of money, well you only got yourself to blame if you don't keep your stupid trap shut.

I signed the Official Secrets Act. You don't hear me griping about how I should be able to gossip to the press all the time.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

Marius said:


> However if you sign up to NDA's cause you think you are going to make loads of money, well you only got yourself to blame if you don't keep your stupid trap shut.


Yeah! Those whining developers that had put so much work into creating apps should just quit their whining and shut the fuck up, and they should just accept Apple's vague and secretive vetting practices and often unfathomable implementation of their rules without complaint. 

How positively _ungracious _it is of developers to try and highlight what they feel are unfair practices and seek clarification. Whatever next!





Marius said:


> I signed the Official Secrets Act. You don't hear me griping about how I should be able to gossip to the press all the time.


They're a software company, not a ruddy country. The guy got his app booted off his store without explanation. Apple wouldn't tell him why, so what else could he do?

..or maybe Apple are just planning on adding support for streaming audio in iPhone 2.3....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 11, 2008)

iskande said:


> if you read down into the comments theres this intresting gem :
> 
> "I'm going to leave out names, but I was able to talk to actual Apple iPhone Team programmers about these types of situations. The app I questioned them about the most was the Podcaster rejection.
> 
> ...



Well...it doesn't take a genius to work out how breaking the NDA can be used to publicise your company against the big and bad Apple now does it? I'm sure PR departments are thrilled at such great free publicity...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Yeah! Those whining developers that had put so much work into creating apps should just quit their whining and shut the fuck up, and they should just accept Apple's vague and secretive vetting practices and often unfathomable implementation of their rules without complaint.
> 
> How positively _ungracious _it is of developers to try and highlight what they feel are unfair practices and seek clarification. Whatever next!They're a software company, not a ruddy country.



Surely you as a business man can see the sense in NDA's from time to time?


----------



## Kanda (Nov 11, 2008)

Same happens at any software company if you break an NDA though. Have seen it happen at games software houses. No one forces you to get into bed with a software house and sign NDA's. 

If you do, then break it... You're fucking stupid whining about it and I'd worry about the developers reputation tbh


----------



## iskande (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Yeah! Those whining developers that had put so much work into creating apps should just quit their whining and shut the fuck up, and they should just accept Apple's vague and secretive vetting practices and often unfathomable implementation of their rules without complaint.
> 
> How positively _ungracious _it is of developers to try and highlight what they feel are unfair practices and seek clarification. Whatever next!They're a software company, not a ruddy country.



the time to complain about / negotiate an nda is before you sign it. apple have a full list of rules with the sdk ... and if you have a question you can always ask them ( they have their own dev forums ) ...

i look forward to next week when we will do this discussion again ...


----------



## Crispy (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Yeah! Those whining developers that had put so much work into creating apps should just quit their whining and shut the fuck up, and they should just accept Apple's vague and secretive vetting practices and often unfathomable implementation of their rules without complaint.



It's not a value judgement about a personal decision by a moustache-twirling apple executive. The process in this case was not vague. An NDA, no matter what you might think about its terms, is a legal contract. You enter into it and then break it? Don't expect any sympathy or cooperation from the other party to the contract. Simple as that, and again, that's not a value judgement, just a statement of fact.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well...it doesn't take a genius to work out how breaking the NDA can be used to publicise your company against the big and bad Apple now does it? I'm sure PR departments are thrilled at such great free publicity...


I don't think this guy has a 'PR Dept.'  He just sounds pissed off at having his hard work (and possibly his future income) being suddenly booted off without explanation by Apple. Wouldn't you be a tad pissed off if it happened to you?


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

Crispy said:


> It's not a value judgement about a personal decision by a moustache-twirling apple executive. The process in this case was not vague. An NDA, no matter what you might think about its terms, is a legal contract. You enter into it and then break it? Don't expect any sympathy or cooperation from the other party to the contract. Simple as that, and again, that's not a value judgement, just a statement of fact.


But he only broke the terms of his NDA as a desperate measure *after* Apple has withdrawn his app without explanation.

If Apple has treated this guy with consideration, then he would have had no call to make a public appeal. Or do you think he should have just shrugged his shoulders and walked away at having his hard work rejected for no reason?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 11, 2008)

No, I think he should have tried to talk to apple first



> While the programmers in question would be specific about the exact reasoning for the podcaster rejection, the programmers did say that it's not why people think. He then went on to comment on how had the developer simply chose to communicate with Apple, instead of taking the issue to the media, he could very well have gotten his app on the App Store. Instead he chose to break the NDA he had agreed to between him and Apple. As soon as he broke the NDA, there is nothing Apple can do. Policy is they're cut-off cause they can't be trusted to be confidential.



I think the restrictions that apple place on iphone developers are too much. I also think that in this case, the developer could have handled things better.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

Crispy said:


> No, I think he should have tried to talk to apple first


You're quoting an unattributed source who could be Apple's PR team for all we know.

In the original post the developer said he was  "trying to get an answer out of Apple."


----------



## iskande (Nov 11, 2008)

Crispy said:


> I think the restrictions that apple place on iphone developers are too much. I also think that in this case, the developer could have handled things better.



if he had written on his blog "We are currently working with Apple to make sure the new version meets their criteria" it would have probably been fine. 

but thats a non-story .. "Apple works with Developr to ensure all Happy" isnt as interesting as "Apple rejects yet another App"


----------



## cybertect (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> The guy got his app booted off his store without explanation.



v1.2 is still available for purchase on iTMS as I type.



editor said:


> Apple wouldn't tell him why, so what else could he do?



They did tell him why v1.3 was rejected - iPhone SDK Agreement section 3.3.15.

Posting the rejection on his blog before he'd received a response to his email was not a smart move though. If he's signed an NDA and that breaks it, it puts Apple in a very difficult position.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> In the original post the developer said he was  "trying to get an answer out of Apple."



In his blog he actually said




			
				amro said:
			
		

> We’ve emailed them and are hoping to resolve this quickly.



which is rather different in tone.

e2a: Your quote is the CNET journalist's reporting of that blog, as evidenced by the subsequent update when "Mousa responded to an e-mail asking for further details".


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

cybertect said:


> They did tell him why v1.3 was rejected - iPhone SDK Agreement section 3.3.15.


So even if it makes no sense, he should just accept it, yes? 

Still, the good news for people who don't like Apple's restrictive and proprietary practices is that the more they treat developers this way, the more chance they'll shift to more open platforms like Android and give phone owners the freedom to _decide for themselves_ what applications to run.

Still, if you want to defend a company that treats developers this way ("we'll ban your work if we feel like it! And if you dare speak out against us you'll be punished too!"), you're welcome to them.

It's a shame really, because the iPhone is a lovely piece of kit and could be so much better with a more open developer environment.


----------



## iskande (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Still, if you want to defend a company that treats developers this way ("we'll ban your work if we feel like it! And if you dare speak out against us you'll be punished too!"), you're welcome to them.
> 
> It's a shame really, because the iPhone is a lovely piece of kit and could be so much better with a more open developer environment.



i think people were explaining how ndas work, how they are fact of life. i was.

google android -- the phone for devs who dont understand non disclosure agreements


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

iskande said:


> i think people were explaining how ndas work, how they are fact of life.


No other phone manufacturer is acting like Apple.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> No other phone manufacturer is acting like Apple.





> "Jay Sullivan, vice president of mobile at Mozilla, told ABC News that one of Google's rules will prevent his company from creating an Android version of its web browser. Google requires all applications that are listed on the Android Market, the official software store for this operating system, to be written in Java. That isn't the programming language Mozilla wants to use."
> http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=14578



....


----------



## cybertect (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> So even if it makes no sense, he should just accept it, yes?



No, but you said he was given no explanation. It may be that explanation was unsatisfactory, but that is a different matter.

As for "if you dare speak out against us you'll be punished too!", I've not seen any evidence for this yet.

v1.3 was rejected

v1.2 is still available

_If_ v1.2 is withdrawn, then it may be that he's suffering consequences of breaking his agreement, but that has not happened yet. I would not now be too surprised if that transpires, though.

IMO he jumped the gun by not waiting for a response to his questions. 

The update was submitted on October 31. His blog post stating that it had been rejected was on November 6 (last Thursday). I don't know how long it takes for an iPhone app to go through the approval process, but I can't imagine that leaves much time for a reasoned response.

Breaking an NDA is _always_ a last resort. You burn your boats by doing it. It's just not about 'speaking out' against Apple, but making any disclosure that is outside the terms of the agreement.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

Kanda said:


> ....


Awesomely terrible news, but totally irrelevant to this discussion.


----------



## Iam (Nov 11, 2008)

This discussion is only about how utterly _tewwible_ those bounders at Apple are...


----------



## iskande (Nov 11, 2008)

_probbaly irrelevent,_ but with the iphone you can use objective-c, or use contained web apps, using javascript. objective-c is used because the foundation classes are in obj-c. however ive seen games that are been developed using a obj-c wrapper around c ++ for cross platform development. ie develop in c++ on a desktop and then port across.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Awesomely terrible news, but totally irrelevant to this discussion.



It's relevant that Google have a set of standards that they set out, as do Apple.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

Kanda said:


> It's relevant that Google have a set of standards that they set out, as do Apple.


But it's irrelevant in so much that they're not arbitarily blocking apps and forcing developers to sign NDAs and never talk about the reasons why they've been rejected. 

Which is what we're talking about.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 11, 2008)

Kanda said:


> It's relevant that Google have a set of standards that they set out, as do Apple.


Pretty big difference between them though.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

Iam said:


> This discussion is only about how utterly _tewwible_ those bounders at Apple are...


They make great phones but their power-mad control freakery sucks. Isn't that an OK comment to make?


----------



## cybertect (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> No other phone manufacturer is acting like Apple.



From the Sony Ericsson Developer Site to access the 40% of Symbian v9x APIs that are considered 'sensitive' by SE.



> *Why have certain APIs been restricted in Symbian OS v9?*
> 
> With a mass market of Symbian OS phones it is essential to ensure that users' phones are secured. Applications that have not been properly tested (intentional and unintentional) can cause significant cost for all parts of the industry. In order to further build trust among carriers and consumers, which in turn will help support a thriving market for applications, Symbian introduced platform security in Symbian OS v9.
> The introduction of DevCerts also allows phone manufacturers to give access to certain APIs that were previously inaccessible in a controlled and secure way.



a little further down the page [emphasis added]



> In order for Sony Ericsson to issue the DevCert to the developer, the *ISV must have signed a non-disclosure agreement (NDA) with Sony Ericsson*, and in general have a commercial relationship with Sony Ericsson. The ISV must also be registered under Symbian Signed and accept the Terms and Conditions for Applications Developers.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

cybertect said:


> From the Sony Ericsson Developer Site to access the 40% of Symbian v9x APIs that are considered 'sensitive' by SE.


No matter how you spin it, it's not the same thing, is it?

Why try and defend such restrictive practices?


----------



## iskande (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> They make great phones but their power-mad control freakery sucks. Isn't that an OK comment to make?



its a bit alarmist when you consider what is known in the situation with the app, and what other providers set out ...


----------



## Iam (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> They make great phones but their power-mad control freakery sucks. Isn't that an OK comment to make?



Sure, but you do seem to have a bit of a bee in your bonnet over it.

They're a corp, they're going to behave the way they're going to behave. Their primary motivation is money.

I don't agree with it, but it's pointless expecting them to behave any other way, or even hoping for it.

Just like with Microsoft, Google, you name 'em...


----------



## Iam (Nov 11, 2008)

Obvious boy is obvious.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> No matter how you spin it, it's not the same thing, is it?
> 
> Why try and defend such restrictive practices?



I'm still unconvinced that Apple's NDA is as restrictive as you're making out, or has been suggested elsewhere.

_If_ it is, then, as I said earlier, then I wouldn't be surprised if his app is pulled from the App Store.

I just signed in to Apple Developer site and read the Terms for myself.




			
				Apple said:
			
		

> 4. Confidentiality. You agree that any Apple pre-release software (including related documentation and materials) and any information disclosed by Apple to you in connection with Apple Events or Paid Content (defined below) will be considered and referred to as "Apple Confidential Information".






			
				Apple said:
			
		

> 5. Nondisclosure and Nonuse of Apple Confidential Information. Unless otherwise expressly agreed or permitted in writing by Apple, you agree not to disclose, publish, or disseminate *any Apple Confidential Information* to anyone other than to other Registered iPhone Developers who are employees and contractors working for the same entity as you and then only to the extent that Apple does not otherwise prohibit such disclosure.



The current terms (as revised on October 20) apply to pre-release versions of the iPhone SDK, not to pre-release versions of the developer's own software.

Which seems pretty much on par with the Sony Ericsson agreement. I'm more and more convinced that this is a red herring.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

cybertect said:


> I'm still unconvinced that Apple's NDA is as restrictive as you're making out, or has been suggested elsewhere.


Then find me some recent examples of developers for other platforms being treated in a similar fashion. Does any other platform maintain a single, manufacturer-controlled outlet for apps, banning programs deemed to be competitive with their own apps?

My concern is that Apple is now a major player in the mobile market, and they are setting hugely restrictive, power-freak conditions that are bad for both consumers and developers. I'm interested in technology so it worries me.

If the direction they're taking doesn't bother you, fair enough.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 11, 2008)

but none of that is to do with the NDA


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 11, 2008)

cybertect said:


> but none of that is to do with the NDA



Heh...


----------



## Sunray (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Then find me some recent examples of developers for other platforms being treated in a similar fashion. Does any other platform maintain a single, manufacturer-controlled outlet for apps, banning programs deemed to be competitive with their own apps?
> 
> My concern is that Apple is now a major player in the mobile market, and they are setting hugely restrictive, power-freak conditions that are bad for both consumers and developers. I'm interested in technology so it worries me.
> 
> If the direction they're taking doesn't bother you, fair enough.



If the hugely unimpressive App store is anything to go by they will have no choice but to relax the restrictions.

Unfortunately Android isn't really ready yet so isn't providing any competition.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 11, 2008)

Out of interest, is your problem that there are too many things on the appstore, or that it lacks exciting new software?

Either way, I'm not convinced that blocking these apps has met with huge resistance from users.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 11, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Either way, I'm not convinced that blocking these apps has met with huge resistance from users.


 
I'd think it's actually filtering out a fuckton of shit too


----------



## paolo (Nov 11, 2008)

Kanda said:


> I'd think it's actually filtering out a fuckton of shit too



Based on the list I've seen, not loads. There's not really much - in terms of number of apps - that have been banned. A fair few were IP related, e.g. Tetris clones.

The only meaningful ones I remember were Netshare (tethering), and over-the-air podcast grabbing thing.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

There's 'nuff utter shit on the App Store: 

"16 totally pointless apps that shame the iPhone"
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...that-shame-the-iphone-483773?src=rss&attr=all

But to balance things out, here's "16 free iPhone apps you can't live without"
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...ree-iphone-apps-you-can-t-live-without-453391


----------



## paolo (Nov 11, 2008)

With regards to the possible reasons for the podcast app bans, here's a scenario.

You (Apple) decide you want to do something in this area. You don't want to piss off your carriers, so you say: Tell you what, we'll cap the size of the downloads. 10mb okay? Yes say the carriers.

Sometime into dev, you get an 3rd party application in through the door. No limit.

Now it would be *very* odd then for Apple to say - err, you know we said we're going to be bandwidth friendly? Well, there's a bedroom dev guy who isn't and we are powerless!

The conflict doesn't arise if you (the OS supplier) aren't developing apps where you have to show consideration for your carriers.

In a sense, that's where the Android model works better for Google's image. They mostly* seem to be leave the bad-cop stuff to the carriers.

* Google are reportedly developing anti-jailbreak, so they are doing *some* of their carriers bidding.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> With regards to the possible reasons for the podcast app bans, here's a scenario.


Maybe. But why didn't Apple _just say so_ rather than remaining vague and aloof and pissing off developers who had presumably put in a considerable amount of time, money and effort to create the program in the first place?


----------



## elbows (Nov 11, 2008)

They probably dont want to open cans of worms that could see them expected to comment on every issue they ever have with a 3rd party developer. And if they start talking a bit then it will probably cause some people to forget where the NDA line is and start discussing technologies and detail that Apple doesnt want a public discussion about.

I think we are talking about 2 different rejections which isnt helping. My guesses would be that the reasons for rejection differ, I have some fair guesses as to specifics but dont think my speculation will add much clarity to this debate.

The balance between openness and secrecy is not an easy one once you decide you want some control, I usually find it mildly ludicrous and prone to unfairness unless you go for a totally open approach, with no boundaries to stumble over.

Ultimately if we swept away all of the corporate and developer issues then mobile platforms will still unlikely be 100% open because there is a part that the government controls via radio regulations which they seek to control and keep private for several diverse reasons.


----------



## paolo (Nov 11, 2008)

editor said:


> Maybe. But why didn't Apple _just say so_ rather than remaining vague and aloof and pissing off developers who had presumably put in a considerable amount of time, money and effort to create the program in the first place?



In my speculative scenario, that wouldn't have been possible. App developer A (Apple) takes a carrier friendly position, and assures them. It's all very app specific, so there is no policy change from the OS provider (also Apple) as such.

Now our independent dev doesn't have the carrier relationship, develops something that isn't carrier friendly. Apple, who are both app developer and carrier defender, step in.

The problem, as I see it, is the model. If the issues are bandwidth, the OS supplier should leave that to the carriers. Let them do their own banning/throttling/capping.

In that sense, I think Google are playing a smarter game in the long run.

I'd temper that with my belief that Apple wouldn't have got out of the gate with such a clearly delineated setup.


----------



## paolo (Nov 11, 2008)

In other news: Tethering on AT&T will be $30/month with a 5gb hard cap.

I guess we'll have to wait and see what O2 will offer, although (maybe surprisingly) they've been better than AT&T for value on data.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 12, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Out of interest, is your problem that there are too many things on the appstore, or that it lacks exciting new software?
> 
> Either way, I'm not convinced that blocking these apps has met with huge resistance from users.



There is in excess of 10000 applications you can download on there now, most and I mean > 99.9% of them are really just peoples 1st iPhone application.  There are none that I would call a premier application. the iTunes remote is one of the best applications esp if you have an air tunes.

TomTom releasing their SatNav software would be an example.  Small one man band apps are fine up to a point but some proper software is needed.  Perhaps I am jumping the gun its still early days.

You can get a feeling from what I mean by looking at that list of 16 'must have' applications on the iPhone.  Phone Saber!? Please....


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 12, 2008)

Well I had to bite the bullet and got one on Thursday.

The simplicity of it is freaking me out a bit. No back buttons is annoying, and I aint found any cursor arrows to position the cursor around. My big fingers make placing the cursor in text it a little tricky and I have to delete some letter etc to get where I want to be most times. 

Dont get me wrong I like it. And can see what they're trying to achieve. BUT coming from the XDA/SPV models I'm find it hard to get to grips with I like having to click an x button to turn something off rather than going to the home screen. I like being able to zoom out of something with a slider. I feel I dont have control of it if you know what I mean. 

I do love the fact that I dont put someone on hold whne in a call because my ears touched the screen which is what frequently happens with the SPV's 

So yeah really user friendly and simple to use. Which is great for everyone.

But not great for me as I've got used to a system. I'll get there in the end I'm sure.


----------



## iskande (Nov 12, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> No back buttons is annoying, and I aint found any cursor arrows to position the cursor around.



safari has a back button ?  why would you need cursor arrows ? did someone chop off your pinkies ?


----------



## Gromit (Nov 12, 2008)

Hold your finger down for magnifying glass for those tricky cursor movements in txt boxes.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 12, 2008)

What Marius said for cursor positioning.
Turn the screen off and lock by clicking the power button.
Pinch/Un-pinch for zooming.  

Then read this
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/iphone_user_guide.pdf

*waits for OMG its so easy to use* post.


----------



## elbows (Nov 12, 2008)

Regarding the quality of apps, yes in some ways this is not quite a truly smart phone yet. Ive got more than 20 apps which I consider to be great fun, and less than 10 which are really useful. Ive been impressed by the range & quantity of music apps, if not yet their depth, and serious business applications, aside from stock trackers and todo lists, are thin on the ground. Some of the games and novelty apps are beyond awful. Some have exxtremely limited longeivity that may still equate to 59p well spent.

The potential of Location information has not really been tapped yet, although there is something glorious about that Ocarina app that is a wind instrument with a globe where you can hear other peoples attempts to play it, and their location. Its simple, arguably serves little real purpose, but all the same I was surprised what an interesting sense of global belonging & togetherness it managed to instill in me for at least 1 minute.

I have been both fascinated and saddened by much of what has come from web 2.0, and although its tempting for me to write these iphone apps off as being 'smartware for a dumb generation' there is something quite lovely about it all too. If you want a dull, clunky, serious but extremely functional smartphone, I can see why the iphone might not be a brilliant choice, at least not yet. But as the device has also brought joy to me from a dimension seldom seen since I was an 8 year old playing with a ZX Spectrum, I do not regret my purchase of the iphone.


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 12, 2008)

iskande said:


> safari has a back button ?  why would you need cursor arrows ? did someone chop off your pinkies ?



NO it doesn't that was the point and who talking about just safari? 

As for the rest of it read the rest of the post that you didnt quote


----------



## Kanda (Nov 13, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> NO it doesn't that was the point and who talking about just safari?
> 
> As for the rest of it read the rest of the post that you didnt quote



What fucking back buttons are you on about then??  

Cursors??? wtf?


----------



## iskande (Nov 13, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> NO it doesn't that was the point and who talking about just safari?
> 
> As for the rest of it read the rest of the post that you didnt quote



safari has a back button in the bottom left corner ... apps usually have button top left to return to the last screen ...


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 13, 2008)

I'm just finding it difficult cos I'm used to a different system and finding it a bit too simple. 
Its like learning to drive a car the traditional way and then they develop one that works on thought. Its all feels a bit odd and unfamilair and out if your control

I'll get it in the end.


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 13, 2008)

Ok so now next question is how do I set up a tune as my rigtone on it ?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 13, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> Ok so now next question is how do I set up a tune as my rigtone on it ?



Import it into garageband, cut it down to size, export as ringtone, sync ringtones in itunes.


----------



## Iam (Nov 13, 2008)

Right click it in iTunes. Select get info, choose the start and end points you want. OK.
Right click again, select convert to AAC (if it's an mp3).
Drag the new file to your desktop, it'll be called name.m4a
Rename it name.m4r
Drag it back to iTunes.
Sync


----------



## Crispy (Nov 13, 2008)

Iam's method is the easiest.
In other words - FAR TOO FUCKING DIFFICULT, APPLE!


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 13, 2008)

Ah right. I thought it might just be a simple option> select as ringtone

LIKE IT WAS ON MY OTHER PHONE 

I'll probably hack it up in Camtasia 5 and do it that way.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Iam's method is the easiest.
> In other words - FAR TOO FUCKING DIFFICULT, APPLE!


 
There *is *an easier way if you aren't in the UK. 

Unfortunately our licencing laws or something mean that Apple have disabled it


----------



## Crispy (Nov 13, 2008)

Every other phone can do it


----------



## Iam (Nov 13, 2008)

It's because Apple only want you to buy ringtones from the store...


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 13, 2008)

Marius said:


> There *is *an easier way if you aren't in the UK.
> 
> Unfortunately our licencing laws or something mean that Apple have disabled it



Our licensing laws also mean we cant steal music or download films for free...

Ho hum. . . and anyway its my fucking tune so I can do what I want with it SOOO spill the beans matey


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2008)

Select track, Click on Store and Create Ringtone.

But it will tell you that it only works on tracks bought from iTunes, then when you try one of them it still won't work, at least not for me.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2008)

Iam said:


> Right click it in iTunes. Select get info, choose the start and end points you want. OK.
> Right click again, select convert to AAC (if it's an mp3).
> Drag the new file to your desktop, it'll be called name.m4a
> Rename it name.m4r
> ...



How the hell do i rename a poxy file extension in Vista?
I was easy with file manager instead of the dumb interface they provide now.

edit: Nevermind, i found it eventually grrr


----------



## sim667 (Nov 14, 2008)

Iam said:


> Right click it in iTunes. Select get info, choose the start and end points you want. OK.
> Right click again, select convert to AAC (if it's an mp3).
> Drag the new file to your desktop, it'll be called name.m4a
> Rename it name.m4r
> ...



Ooooh didnt know that.

cheers


----------



## Raes (Nov 16, 2008)

Iam said:


> Right click it in iTunes. Select get info, choose the start and end points you want. OK.
> Right click again, select convert to AAC (if it's an mp3).
> Drag the new file to your desktop, it'll be called name.m4a
> Rename it name.m4r
> ...





sim667 said:


> Ooooh didnt know that.
> 
> cheers



Just a little heads up; 40sec seems to be the maximum length you can convert to .m4r and it'll sync.

Luckily for me it's enough for XX Teens: Reprise, off Welcome to Goon Island  (if I chop off 3sec of the fade).


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 16, 2008)

Ok then next stupid question how do I send a picture message.
I want to do it as a text not an email


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 16, 2008)

You can't.

Sorry.


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 16, 2008)

Ok so you can't send picture texts or easilly set a tune as a ringtone. You have to use a computer running something else.

So cmon on then what's it's special skill cos my last phone could do picture messages set tunes as ringtones and it would play mp3 + vid files

In fact so far I ain't found anything that my old phone didn't do or in fact do just that oil bit better

Sorry...I just need a bit of convincing about it being the best phone ever. It all feels a bit emporers new clothes to me


----------



## cybertect (Nov 16, 2008)

A work-around

http://forum.o2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=6666

http://www.iphonemms.net/send.html


----------



## Sunray (Nov 16, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> Ok so you can't send picture texts or easilly set a tune as a ringtone. You have to use a computer running something else.
> 
> So cmon on then what's it's special skill cos my last phone could do picture messages set tunes as ringtones and it would play mp3 + vid files
> 
> ...



I think you miss the point.

My old SE K800i has a feature list that batters my iPhone.  If you are happy working out and fiddling about pressing endless button and joystick sequences delving through sub menu after sub menu then its probably not the phone for you.  You might have been better served with a Sony Erisson X1 or HTC Touch HD.

What the iPhone does brilliantly, the functionality it does have is deceptively simple to get to work for you.   Requiring very minimal interaction to do complex tasks.  

Its also an iPod, which is why I bought it.


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 16, 2008)

cybertect said:


> A work-around
> 
> http://forum.o2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=6666
> 
> http://www.iphonemms.net/send.html




Thanks man


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 16, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I think you miss the point.
> 
> My old SE K800i has a feature list that batters my iPhone.  If you are happy working out and fiddling about pressing endless button and joystick sequences delving through sub menu after sub menu then its probably not the phone for you.  You might have been better served with a Sony Erisson X1 or HTC Touch HD.
> 
> ...



I think the point is that its a fashion accessory. 
Its been kept simple so that posh spice can use it. Its all marketing and product placement. 

IMO 2 weeks down the road I dont think it does anything brilliantly, and if I wasn't given it by work I'd have happilly carried on with me old Xda.

I just dont know...
Unless you need an ipod, I dont think there is a reason to have this phone.


ALthough I have got a lightsabre thing on it which is REALLLLLYYY COOOOOL

swishswoooooooo


----------



## Gromit (Nov 16, 2008)

I use my iPhone as a mini laptop more than anything.

Find me a device that does make mobile internet so easy to use and with full grfx i'll consider it when my contract runs out. If only it had flash mind.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 17, 2008)

Fashion accessory, hardly, its not the greatest phone, I knew that when I got it, but then its not just a phone is it? 

Its got :-
The 1st genuinely useable mobile web browser
Google Maps with GPS and phone integration
an iPod 
Plus the organiser elements.

And seamless transition between Wifi/3G/Edge/GPRS.


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 17, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Fashion accessory, hardly, its not the greatest phone, I knew that when I got it, but then its not just a phone is it?
> 
> Its got :-
> The 1st genuinely useable mobile web browser
> ...



your first sentance to me sums it up as a fashion accessory. Its function is a phone and in your own words its not the greatest. So I'd go with it's designs is to look good rather than function in its primary role.

The 1st genuinely useable mobile browser I dont think is true. I've been doing it with a windows mobile for years. Clunky but useable 
I did have co-pilot on mine as a GPS which worked rather nicely even in Boston.
And ipod. . . well others use mp3 players so "meh"
And the organiser elements well I never found anything I couldnt do in windows mobile again

So sorry, I'm unconvinced and unimpressed.

To me its that gorgeous girl you just met, sexy, legs that go on forever, well dressed, perfect hair and your eyes just pop out of your head...

then you find out she cant hold a conversation past the point of "dunnno"
abd giggling.
Looks good on yer arm but it aint even gonna be moving in


----------



## Crispy (Nov 17, 2008)

it does fewer things but does them very well. Other phones do more things but less well.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2008)

Marius said:


> Find me a device that does make mobile internet so easy to use and with full grfx



A G1


----------



## Iam (Nov 17, 2008)

Just the shite network to contend with, then.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2008)

Iam said:


> Just the shite network to contend with, then.



Eh


----------



## Sunray (Nov 17, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A G1



Doesn't handle PDF properly.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 17, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> your first sentance to me sums it up as a fashion accessory. Its function is a phone and in your own words its not the greatest. So I'd go with it's designs is to look good rather than function in its primary role.
> 
> The 1st genuinely useable mobile browser I dont think is true. I've been doing it with a windows mobile for years. *Clunky but useable *
> I did have co-pilot on mine as a GPS which worked rather nicely even in Boston.
> ...



This is my last word, if you don't like it then you dont like it. 

See you have missed the point.  The new feature that seems to have escaped you is usability.

With regard to web browsing, I said genuinely usable.  The IE that comes with WM is shit, but if you think its fine, then you will put up with any old shit pushed your way, corporations love people like you.  I on the other hand cannot be bothered with 'clunky'.  You'll be telling me that Motorola make great phones next.

You also miss understand me when I said 'not a great phone'.  What I meant in that context is that its not as fully featured as other phones. It still allows me to make and receive calls pretty well.  Changing my ring tone to my own tune and sending MMS's is more a fashion phone thing.  I've never felt the need.

For me, and remember that I like my gadgets to work and work flawlessly, this is the greatest phone I have ever used.  I would never go back to phones with buttons, T9 and a joystick, illogical and deep submenus etc.  Shit.  Look at that Sony X1, its got more features than you can shake a stick at.  Its got WM6 which is bafflingly bad, super busy screens and  clickable things so small you need a stylus.  I lose them, I'm not in any general danger of losing my finger.

Another example is my previous phone, the K800i.  Its does all the same things but does them so badly (apart from the camera which was great) never got used.  There for the marketing department and not for the general public to actually USE, god forbid.


----------



## Iam (Nov 17, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Eh



I've got 3 mates on T-Mobile, half the time they can't even make or answer calls. I wouldn't buy anything on their network - not in Bristol, anyway.

Besides, it doesn't take much to find people saying that you might be better off waiting for the G2. Not buying 1st gen tech, n'all that...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 17, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Doesn't handle PDF properly.



There's a dedicated pdf reader on the way soon apparently...



Iam said:


> I've got 3 mates on T-Mobile, half the time they can't even make or answer calls. I wouldn't buy anything on their network - not in Bristol, anyway.



I guess it's a location thing - it's spot on here in Birmingham 



> Besides, it doesn't take much to find people saying that you might be better off waiting for the G2. Not buying 1st gen tech, n'all that...



I wasn't entirely convinced myself, but they offered me the phone for free, so I figured I had nowt to lose by giving it a go.  It's pretty similar to the first generation iPhone, in that it has a couple of faults that really should have been sorted at launch, but on the whole is pretty slick, and an indication of where the future lies for phones


----------



## Sunray (Nov 17, 2008)

Oops... wrong


----------



## Gromit (Nov 17, 2008)

So hang on? We can only get the G1 on one network?

Has Editor written a rant yet about how evil they are for such restrictive practice? Out of curiousity?

I should go look on the G1 thread really shouldn't i?


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2008)

Marius said:


> Has Editor written a rant yet about how evil they are for such restrictive practice? Out of curiousity?
> 
> I should go look on the G1 thread really shouldn't i?


I have actually although there is a massive difference: T Mobile will happily unlock it after 3 months and they have never threatened users with bricking their handsets. 

The OS is also not tied to one company employing restrictive practices and, of course, it doesn't suffer the same power-crazed hierarchy with developers being arbitrarily refused, users unable to chose what apps go on their phones etc etc etc zzzzzzzzzzz


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2008)

Iam said:


> I've got 3 mates on T-Mobile, half the time they can't even make or answer calls. I wouldn't buy anything on their network - not in Bristol, anyway.


I've been on T Mobile for 10 years and I've had no issues about reception or coverage. 

Lots of issues about the twats running the company though....


----------



## Gromit (Nov 17, 2008)

TBH it does look like the iPhone paved the way but better handsets are following.

Kinda wish I'd waited before getting the 3G but heck I'd still have had to wait 8 months from now before being able to switch phones.

Still at least when my 3G contract expires I should have plenty of interesting handsets to choose from.

Oh and re t-mobile in Wales. I had one once. I noticed that often others would have a signal when i didn't. The moment I went further north of Cardiff than Merthyr i didn't have a hope in hell of getting a signal. That was quite some time ago mind.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 17, 2008)

I think you just have to get what works best where you live and travel to. I work and travel to areas with poor phone reception, have used most of the main networks. This year I switched from 3 to orange as they are the only people with signal here. Prior to that I was on vodaphone and switched when my mates in the highlands of Scotland got better reception on cheaper contracts. 

I just wish there were more network sharing deals going on, but in the meantime, just pick what works for you.


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2008)

In my experience, most people seem to agree that Vodafone has the best all round reception.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 17, 2008)

T Mobile have been patchy in places for me in North London, when I was on O2 they were excellent. Had Orange years ago and they were terrible...


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 17, 2008)

Sunray said:


> This is my last word, if you don't like it then you dont like it.
> 
> See you have missed the point.  The new feature that seems to have escaped you is usability.
> 
> ...



Its each to ther own innit. I just dont find it useable. 

I think what we are getting here is like the Nokia v Sony thing. You get used to one method and its hard to pick up the other. 

I've got used to windows mobile and this feels odd

I aint missed the point on useability. I have to do useability studies virtually daily. I totally understand that its useable to people that are new to smartphones. I've been using one since me old treo days on the palm os so its all a bit wierd and not as useable to me.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 17, 2008)

Its the easiest phone in the world to use.  The iPhone UI is a master piece of design in my opinion. 

I think what you and I understand by the word 'usable' are different?  Having loads of options and features you can fiddle about with isn't usability?


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 17, 2008)

I thought you'd said your last word on the matter 

I dont find it that usable cos I'm used to doing it differently thats all. 

Its a different logic


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Its the easiest phone in the world to use.


In a limited sense, yes, but it's not so easy if you want to do the  things that almost all other smartphones support with ease, like record video, MMS, change ringtones, copy and paste, install TomTom  etc etc.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 17, 2008)

Thats not a usability issue, thats a feature list issue.

If the features were there they would be easy to use.


----------



## elbows (Nov 18, 2008)

cybertect said:


> As for "if you dare speak out against us you'll be punished too!", I've not seen any evidence for this yet.
> 
> v1.3 was rejected
> 
> ...



According to the app authors website, v1.3 has now been approved by Apple!

What isnt clear is whether Apple had a complete change of heart, or realised they had erroneously rejected 1.3, or maybe the app author changed something and resubmitted it.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Thats not a usability issue, thats a feature list issue.


Err, no. You can do most of the above but it involves a whole load of faffing about with jailbreaking.


----------



## Pie 1 (Nov 18, 2008)

Cheating husband tries to blame iphone & gets pwned :

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1786497


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 18, 2008)

Pie 1 said:


> Cheating husband tries to blame iphone & gets pwned :
> 
> http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1786497



Oh dear


----------



## cybertect (Nov 19, 2008)

elbows said:


> According to the app authors website, v1.3 has now been approved by Apple!
> 
> What isnt clear is whether Apple had a complete change of heart, or realised they had erroneously rejected 1.3, or maybe the app author changed something and resubmitted it.



The Register's take




			
				The Register said:
			
		

> return7 CEO Amro Mousa tells The Reg the app was resubmitted with "minor cosmetic changes." But the core code was unchanged. "I think it might just have been a mixup on their end and I'm glad they came through for us," Mouse says. "It sets a positive precedent."


----------



## boskysquelch (Nov 19, 2008)




----------



## dogmatique (Nov 19, 2008)

Now I could be wrong - but the Google Mobile App for iPhone with the voice search still isn't available in the UK, yes?

So how did the Telegraph come up with this garbage story about it?

ETA: Oops, not explicitly there in the app store, but there as an update on the phone...

I take it back... it is very comical... I tried the name of my company, and it came up with Near Memphis, which isn't even closely related.

Nearest Pizza Restaurant?  New Pizza restaurant - not bad, but not local, and i don't really like pizza anyway.

Lots more faffing around, trying american accents, lots of strange replies, then started to get silly...

Just tried "nearest prostitute" (my girlfriend wasn't amused, but hey, it's in the interests of "science") - got, wait for it...

"Marital Property Tax"

Excellent.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 19, 2008)

You knew that was going to fail didn't you?


----------



## dogmatique (Nov 19, 2008)

Yep, but it's fun.  At least 3 minutes of entertainment...

Try it.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2008)

There was a voice recognition thing that came with the Centro. That lasted even less than 3 minutes, but then it was even more shit.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 20, 2008)

Pie 1 said:


> Cheating husband tries to blame iphone & gets pwned :
> 
> http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1786497





what an idiot!

Can castcatcher open .m3u's from a website, or is it just stuff broadcast on their servers?


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 20, 2008)

Ok now I have anothre question. 

I like having qwerty keyboards cos it gets away form that arse wanky fiddle fiddle on a button to get a specific letter. 

It usually means there's no stupid predictive dictionary thing on it. 

except there is on this thing. 
Usually thats not a problem. But rather than select it if I want to use the word it suggests, I have to pick it if I DONT want the word it suggests  Thats just fucking stupid and faffy.

So how do it fucking turn it off .

I've just asked Fizz if she wants me to pick up a couple of pastors for tea on me way home.


----------



## dogmatique (Nov 20, 2008)

I don't think you can...


----------



## Gromit (Nov 20, 2008)

dogmatique said:


> I don't think you can...


 
Not that I'm aware of.

Its a double edged sword. Sometimes its great at saving me typing by knowing what I wanted to type. Sometime it corrects my shit spelling. But sometimes its a pain in the arse.

It does learn mind. So the more often you type pasty (?) the more likely it is to realise thats the word you wanted.


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 20, 2008)

I fucking hope you can...mind you I've had a good look and cant find a way of turning it off. . . Its fucking tripe. 

FFS usebability my fucking arse. Useable for people that cant count to 2 without using their fingers. 

I dont need a fucking machine to input what it THINKS i'm trying to write, If you want to spell check everything WAIT UNTIL I've finished dont sit there doing it on nigh on every fucking word. 

This phone currently has a live expectatancy of less then a week... At which point it will meet its end... 

And no you cant have it cos I will enjoy smashing the shit out of it.

No fucking simpel way of setting MP3's to ringtones?
No fucking picture text messages?
and no abiltiy to turn some fucking piece of shit dictionary fucker off?


Thats not a phone thats an insult


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 20, 2008)

Marius said:


> Not that I'm aware of.
> 
> Its a double edged sword. Sometimes its great at saving me typing by knowing what I wanted to type. Sometime it corrects my shit spelling. But sometimes its a pain in the arse.
> 
> It does learn mind. So the more often you type pasty (?) the more likely it is to realise thats the word you wanted.



ITS JUST A PAIN IN THE ARSE.

I dont want it to learn I want it to leave my fucking typing alone. 
It second guessing jsut makes my typing with abroken hand doubley difficult cos now I haqv eto go back through and doubel check that it hasn't done it.

And no cursor buttons means that either you spend twica as long fecking abotu tryingto get it in the right place OR like me you got to the end of word delete it all the way back put the right letter sin and retype it ONLY for it to secodn guess you again. And this time you have to hit the little x so that it doesn't fill it in for ya 

Yeah by all means chip in with suggestions at the end when its all done. But n the middle of writing. . . 

thats about as useable as re-ineventing the wheel with a triangle


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> I fucking hope you can...mind you I've had a good look and cant find a way of turning it off. . . Its fucking tripe.
> 
> FFS usebability my fucking arse. Useable for people that cant count to 2 without using their fingers.


Next time, get yourself a phone with a proper hardware QWERTY keyboard. Problem solved!


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 20, 2008)

editor said:


> Next time, get yourself a phone with a proper hardware QWERTY keyboard. Problem solved!




I've just come from an XDA, but work are now swapping them over for these bloody things and the new blackberries. 

I dont get a say unfortunatley grrrrrr 

However it is for development purposes. We've built plug-ins for our software that work on WindowsMe, We have done all the encryption stuff for the Nokia ones. And now we are developing plugins for blackberry and the iphone. Hence why I've got one of these for a while.


----------



## Iam (Nov 20, 2008)

The problem I have with the keyboard is the key size. I don't see how a hardware keyboard would be any different, though. It's no better on the TYTN, which has a full QWERTY keyboard. Oh, and I have smallish fingers.

Evidently, it's a co-ordination issue.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2008)

Iam said:


> The problem I have with the keyboard is the key size. I don't see how a hardware keyboard would be any different, though. It's no better on the TYTN, which has a full QWERTY keyboard. Oh, and I have smallish fingers.


Oh believe me, there's a world of difference between a raised, tactile, flexible hardware key and a hard, flat area of glass on a screen.


----------



## Iam (Nov 20, 2008)

Why would I need to believe you? You might want to read that post again...

Particularly the bit you omitted.


----------



## Iam (Nov 20, 2008)

Just in case, like.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 20, 2008)

Iam said:


> The problem I have with the keyboard is the key size. I don't see how a hardware keyboard would be any different, though. It's no better on the TYTN, which has a full QWERTY keyboard. Oh, and I have smallish fingers.
> 
> Evidently, it's a co-ordination issue.



My theory on this is that with a proper keypad you locate the bump then a microsecond later press it. With a virtual keyboard there's no chance to locate the key, it just registers where you stick your finger first unless you drag it, which slows you down or leads to errors.


----------



## Iam (Nov 20, 2008)

Did I type that post in swahili or something?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 20, 2008)

Iam said:


> Did I type that post in swahili or something?



I've read your post again, and my reply seems perfectly apt


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 20, 2008)

On the palm they have a hard pad with little raised bumps which are wicked for typing with you fingers on. And they and the XDA's have a pen for precision touchscreen stuff SO its easy to blip about with both those types. 

The iphone is shiny touch screen and fingers. That sort of couples the two worst bits from both types.


----------



## Iam (Nov 20, 2008)

It's no different FOR ME on the phone with the hardware keyboard that I own, therefore it must be me and my crappy fingers!!


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 20, 2008)

Iam said:


> it must be . . . my crappy fingers!!



I told you about putting them up yer bum. . .
no wonder your typing's pants


----------



## Iam (Nov 20, 2008)




----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 20, 2008)

Iam said:


> It's no different FOR ME on the phone with the hardware keyboard that I own, therefore it must be me and my crappy fingers!!



Good for you 

My theory was more for everyone else.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2008)

Iam said:


> Why would I need to believe you? You might want to read that post again...
> 
> Particularly the bit you omitted.


I'm talking generally. 

You know, to _all the other people _taking an interest in this thread.



Oh, and can you stop using over sized text please?


----------



## Iam (Nov 20, 2008)

If it wasn't directed at me, why implore me to believe you?

Of course, no one else can make personal observations, but yours always are, eh?

Fuck you and your rolley eyes, quite frankly, you snotty twat.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 20, 2008)

That's better! FIGHT!


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2008)

Iam said:


> If it wasn't directed at me, why implore me to believe you?
> 
> Fuck you and your rolley eyes, quite frankly, you snotty twat.


I think you need to calm down, son.

FYI: "believe me" _is a figure of speech_. It does not mean the writer is literally imploring you to personally believe what they're saying. HTH. HAND.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> That's better! FIGHT!


Iam's going to *explode* soon!


----------



## Iam (Nov 20, 2008)

Yeah, _terribly sorry_, dad.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 20, 2008)

editor said:


> Iam's going to *explode* soon!



Well, all that rage you get from having to use an iPhone has to find some way to reach the surface 

((((Iam))))


----------



## Iam (Nov 20, 2008)

editor said:


> Iam's going to *explode* soon!



If I post something similar about you, you'll take it as fun, right?

Yeah, right.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 20, 2008)

Iam said:


> Yeah, _terribly sorry_, dad.





This is brilliant


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 20, 2008)

Iam said:


> If it wasn't directed at me, why implore me to believe you?
> 
> Of course, no one else can make personal observations, but yours always are, eh?
> 
> Fuck you and your rolley eyes, quite frankly, you snotty twat.



email sent from iPhone


----------



## Iam (Nov 20, 2008)

One of the first things I did was took _that_ straight off.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 20, 2008)

There's no fight better than a _geek fight_


----------



## Kanda (Nov 20, 2008)

Have used tactile and touchscreen keyboards. I prefer the touch screen, you'd have to be stupid not to be able to get used to a touchscreen 

Hand eye co-ordination, that's evolution for you


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 20, 2008)

<sends Kanda an IBM "M" type keyboard in the post to show him how wrong he is>

Physical feedback will _always_ be better.  End of.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 20, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Have used tactile and touchscreen keyboards. I prefer the touch screen, you'd have to be stupid not to be able to get used to a touchscreen
> 
> Hand eye co-ordination, that's evolution for you



There's good touch screen and bad touch screen. Anyway, no touch screen in the world beats a decent hardware keyboard.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Anyway, no touch screen in the world beats a decent hardware keyboard.


Them the facts and make no mistake!


----------



## Kanda (Nov 20, 2008)

Thems opinions not facts


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 20, 2008)

I think it's a fact that people like different things.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Thems opinions not facts


So why aren't you using a flat, non-tactile, non-haptic, shiny sheet of glass to type on when you're using your laptop or desktop PC?

Any ideas there?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 20, 2008)

Kanda said:


> Thems opinions not facts



True, though I've no doubt that speed and accuracy tests would always fall in favour of hardware keyboards. Imagine a touch screen keyboard on a regular PC, it'd be shit.


----------



## paolo (Nov 20, 2008)

I can type fastest on a desktop keyboard.
Next fastest on iPhone
Slowest - nearly impossible - on (other phone) hardkey keyboard.

I've not really used the latter very much, so it's not really 'proof' of anything, but just making it clear that the keyboard style is not the sole factor. Experience - for me at least - counts for alot.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 20, 2008)

Watch and weep, iFans: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Aiw5PsQ50Uc


----------



## ooo (Nov 20, 2008)

doesn't this look wank?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 20, 2008)

No! That looks fucking brilliant


----------



## ooo (Nov 20, 2008)

retro defo.

eta
it's selling on guardian for £209!
http://www.guardianoffers.co.uk/mal...ers/_IPODBOOMBOX/-/Lasonic-i931-Ipod-Boombox-


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 20, 2008)

I must say that I was surprised how quickly I picked up typing on the iTouch - I'm already faster than I was on the Palm, and I'm a Graffiti expert of several years' running. The auto-correct is good (in most cases) and makes up for the rather poor cursor movement mechanism, since you rarely need to go backwards.

It does pale into comparison when you see two-thumbed Blackberryists though.


----------



## paolo (Nov 20, 2008)

The mag glass is indeed irritating. I think there's something about it's (lack of) sensitivity.

Typing is fine though. I've not used a normal PC to post on urban since July. All reading, all typing, iPhone.


----------



## editor (Nov 21, 2008)

Looks like Apple are happy to bend their App Store rules for the big boys:





> But further research done by Sadun shows that Google is actually going beyond its use of unpublished APIs in the Google Mobile application to call on so-called "private" frameworks that are supposed to be strictly off-limits to anyone but Apple, an offense that can result in banishment from the App Store. A framework is a more general set of building blocks for an application that requires more custom development work than an API....
> 
> So what can we conclude?
> One, as we already knew, the App Store approval process doesn't make sense: applications that don't violate any public guidelines are rejected for nebulous reasons, while applications that violate the rules sail through.
> ...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 21, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> So how do it fucking turn it off .


New firmware (2.2) out today has:


> Preference to turn on/off auto-correction in Keyboard Settings


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 21, 2008)

I know, I just found out.  

Update was out this morning WOOOHOOO

tell ya what there feck all wrong with apples custoemr service. I dindt even have to emaiil them. All I had to do was have a rant on here and looks what happens.


Right for my next trick. . . world peace ?


----------



## editor (Nov 21, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> I know, I just found out.
> 
> Update was out this morning WOOOHOOO
> 
> tell ya what there feck all wrong with apples custoemr service. I dindt even have to emaiil them. All I had to do was have a rant on here and looks what happens.


Could you ask them to loosen their power-mad grip over App development and put in a keyboard please?

I'll buy one then.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 21, 2008)

Anything good in that update? - haven't synced mine for a couple of days.

My mini review:
I like my iPhone. I've had it about three months now.
I can see if you're already a smartphone user you'll find it lacking but as a disgruntled Nokia 'normal' phone user (and mac user) who upgraded, I think it's superb. I occasionally miss C&P but you can always bookmark a webpage, email or add it as an icon to the main page, I never used MMS, I take a rare photo with a phone (I carry an pocket camera normally anyway) and never use phone video. But I can see that would be annoying for some.
The Maps.app I reckon is better for me than TomTom as that's more for driving, Maps is far more useful in terms of knowing about local stuff and integration with loads of other iPhone apps. I don't drive so I couldn't care less about TomTom personally, though I wouldn't be surprised if they're working on an app, considering the money they could make (and having met the wanker of an MD how bloody obsessed he is with Apple). Got me out many a pickle in a recent trip with the family to France, found a hotel with it, and helped when we kept getting lost in Paris. Though the 200 euros roaming bill for just internet usage was a surprise! I was only there for 5 days...
It even shows coffeeshops in Amsterdam, I found a new one round the corner. I look forward to the update (though street view is no good to anyone unless you live in Lyon or Paris). GoogleEarth works beautifully if you don't need any overlays.

The interface is a joy and the anti-aliased type easy on the eyes. I can't even look at a windows browser these days. There's some lovely games on it - Xplane and Fastlane for two, though I use Tetris the most. I recently installed Jaadu, an excellent VNC client (though one of my pet peeves is the lack of backgrounding so I can't run an SSH tunnel at the same time-unless I jailbreak), it works quicker over 3G to my home computer than Chicken OTV does on my work desktop. I was adding torrents on the train this morning and typing in the Terminal. Also using a free Google app called GoogleRemote/telekinesis that lets me access my entire home folder structure, so I can open PDFs and stream quicktime movies.

The fact it syncs almost everything with my home and work mac is really useful, and because I used to spend an inordinant amount of time in the garden smoking spliffs, browsing and video watching worked pretty flawlessly, though Safari crashes a bit too often with lots of images. I'm now commuting for an hour and I use it a lot. I use VisualHub to recode almost anything for the video player.

The mail.app could do with some work, though there's plenty of apps to enable a landscape keyboard, but it would be nice to turn it to landscape to read your emails.
I use Fring for Skyping with a Wifi connection, it's no worse than Skype is on the desktop anyway.

Oh and the phone is pretty good and very clear too, the voicemail is very handy. Shame it's on T-mobile (worse 3G network in Holland, though they are adding Wifi like mad all over the place).

My most used app is a dutch train timetable/planner app (Trein) for the railways as I commute to another city a lot which is really useful - like a departures board on your phone for any station in Holland, shows late running trains and plans for connections. I use iNap 'cos I keep falling asleep and it wakes me up 1mile from my station. I got a little Kindle style bookreader (stanza) for free book and free Guardian, BBC, news reading too.

The iPod is well handy as I lost mine recently.

Have made a few ringtones reasonably effortlessly with Garageband but would nice to send 'em to mates or do it more simply.

I can type with two fingers pretty quickly,  you get used to it pretty quickly if you use it a lot - faster than that idiot using his thumbs on youtube anyway, but I put that down to nearly 30 years of two finger typing. Tactile would be good, but you'd have to give up some space and it's big enough to be honest I wouldn't want a hardware keyboard, I'm never that far from a desktop for proper work and writing.

So I like it anyway  I might even try jailbreaking one day.

Cons: had to buy a Porta battery charger 'cos I'm always using it. But it'll do over 24 hours if I'm not caning the screen. Bluetooth is a battery drain so I have that off generally. Apple lock down. Lack of backgrounding apps (unless you're Apple). Safari reloads pages too often and crashes too frequently, though a reboot helps when it all gets twisted memory-wise. Needs more memory, 128MB ain't enough, and more proper apps, like tethering. Mail.app no landscape. Cut and Paste lacking. Folders on home screen would be handy. Bluetooth stereo headphone support. Some sort of remote for iPod would be good so I can use alternative none micced headphones and could still control the damn thing without getting it out of my pocket. Can't get music off it, or sync it with any other mac than the one you choose, that's well annoying. Lack of Flash (and it's already pretty much been made for ARM machines now - but Apple won't get involved - expect to see it on Android soon) - it doesn't bother me for most things except the flash movie players - Break.com and tutorials I want to watch. Youtube on iPhone is pony for less viewed movies. Most apps very US centric, though a lot of that is down to Google. 

I don't like the Applestore lock-down, but I sort understand elements of it - especially from a piracy point of view. There's not so many developers who can get paid so well without having their work ripped off. Just look at the amount of pirated apps available to jailbroken phones (ie all of them) 
But I look at Google and think they are to Apple now what Apple was to IBM in the 80s, so Apple should watch out. Just see the quality of Google's apps on the iPhone for how well they're working. I'm really glad they're in the game. The tyranny of Jobs has always annoyed me but I still find their products better for me at the moment.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 21, 2008)

Structaural said:


> Safari reloads pages too often and crashes too frequently, though a reboot helps when it all gets twisted memory-wise. Needs more memory, 128MB ain't enough.


 
Defo needs more memory. They knew they were going to be getting the iPhone to use apps. So why they didn't account for this when selecting memory size i don't know.


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 21, 2008)

editor said:


> Could you ask them to loosen their power-mad grip over App development and put in a keyboard please?
> 
> I'll buy one then.





YEAH sure. . .


OI APPLE Do what he said !!!

or we send the Ballmer round


----------



## Sunray (Nov 21, 2008)

editor said:


> Looks like Apple are happy to bend their App Store rules for the big boys:



Thats been going on for years and can you blame Google or Apple. I very much suspect that if you came up with a landmark app for Android and Apple  wanted it on the iPhone,  Apple might well let you do what ever you like and pay you as well.



> Three, since Apple is under no obligation to support applications that make use of unpublished APIs or private frameworks, future firmware updates or operating-system releases could break those applications.



Thats true of all unsupported API's?  You use them at your peril.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 21, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> or we send the Ballmer round



He's such a goon that guy. I'm sure they'd all chuckle if Bulmer came round and did his excitable dad dancing.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 21, 2008)

I look forward to less crashing on Safari.

I was just reading, that 2.0 gave the phone a scientific calculator? Eh?  Looks pretty basic to me...

 FFS, now that's not very obvious is it!


----------



## Kanda (Nov 21, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I was just reading, that 2.0 gave the phone a scientific calculator? Eh?  Looks pretty basic to me...



turn the phone on it's side when in Calc.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 21, 2008)

Sunray said:


> FFS, now that's not very obvious is it!



More "intuitive" design from Apple eh?


----------



## Gromit (Nov 21, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I look forward to less crashing on Safari.
> 
> I was just reading, that 2.0 gave the phone a scientific calculator? Eh? Looks pretty basic to me...
> 
> FFS, now that's not very obvious is it!


 
It was made blatently obvious at the keynote speech. It got a huge round of applause. Did you miss the speech?


----------



## editor (Nov 21, 2008)

tarannau said:


> He's such a goon that guy. I'm sure they'd all chuckle if Bulmer came round and did his excitable dad dancing.


Him and Jobs. Bunch of pricks. But at least this one _dances_ rather than smugly mopes around in a stupid rollneck shirt.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 21, 2008)

Herr Jobs may get your goat, but at least he doesn't bellow, grunt or gurn in sweaty excitement on stage.

He's a bit disconcerting that Ballmer chap


----------



## editor (Nov 21, 2008)

tarannau said:


> Herr Jobs may get your goat, but....


Nah. He's just as big a cunt.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 21, 2008)

editor said:


> Nah. He's just as big a cunt.



greedy cunt


----------



## Sunray (Nov 21, 2008)

Marius said:


> It was made blatently obvious at the keynote speech. It got a huge round of applause. Did you miss the speech?



Clearly!


----------



## editor (Nov 21, 2008)

Marius said:


> It was made blatently obvious at the keynote speech. It got a huge round of applause.


LOL. Those US fanboys clap _everything_ at Apple launches like demented seals begging for fish from a bucket.

It might be easy to miss bits amongst the back-slapping artillery going on.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 21, 2008)

editor said:


> LOL. Those US fanboys clap _everything_ at Apple launches like demented seals begging for fish from a bucket.
> 
> It might be easy to miss bits amongst the back-slapping artillery going on.



I was seriously bemused by the reception it got. Anyone would have thought he'd said 'teleportation device' not scientific calculator. 

I was like shit do these geeks really get such big hardons for mathematics?


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 21, 2008)

Marius said:


> I was like shit do these geeks really get such big hardons for mathematics?




Yes cos they only get to work in: 11100111010101011110101110110

you would have no idea how wonderful it would be to be able to write 1622


someones gonna work out what exactly the number in binary is now


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 21, 2008)

485145974

I think, every converter I stick it in gives a different result


----------



## elevendayempire (Nov 21, 2008)

Never mind that, yay! I can finally download podcasts through the iPod Touch. Only took them, what, a fucking year to work out that was something people wanted...


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> Never mind that, yay! I can finally download podcasts through the iPod Touch. Only took them, what, a fucking year to work out that was something people wanted...


Shame they're limited to just 10MB for over the air downloads though. Every podcast I've ever downloaded its way over that.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 22, 2008)

Me too, 10mb is a pissy little number to limit podcasts too...


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2008)

So Apple have just approved a third-party email client for the App Store that violates its own policies!

From Apple fanboy #1 website Engadget:





> According to the release, the program is the "the first wide email iPhone app that supports client SMTP." That means, in essence, that it duplicates an exact function of Apple's Mail application on the iPhone and touch.
> 
> That's kind of a huge deal, because up until this point we've been led to believe that this duplication of functionality is one of the company's red flags when it comes to approval. Now mind you, we're not complaining. The idea of having more apps to choose from for doing things like sending email is a great idea, but Apple... what the hell is going on?
> 
> ...


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 22, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> 485145974
> 
> I think, every converter I stick it in gives a different result



PMSLOL

I'd have thought it was gonna end in a 2 not a 4


----------



## Structaural (Nov 22, 2008)

editor said:


> So Apple have just approved a third-party email client for the App Store that violates its own policies!
> 
> From Apple fanboy #1 website Engadget:



Apple should pay you money, dude. 



> Say anything you want about me as long as you spell my name right


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2008)

Structaural said:


> Apple should pay you money, dude.


Yeah! I'm sure I've single-handedly managed to boost Apple's profits no end because of my posts here.

I'll be expecting my customised urban75 black turtleneck sweater in the post soon.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 22, 2008)

Went into the Apple shop on Regent street today, mike on my head phone isn't working too well.  It was seriously packed, its also easily the strangest shop I've ever been to too, Apple have about 10 products but the shop is bigger than Hackney Tescos.  People were playing games and using the internet and doing fuck all else as far as I could see.  Still very good service I must say.

I actually couldn't help but feel sorry for the workers there, forced into those err, kinda aqua/cyan light blue t-shirts. Definitely the most unflattering top ever made.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Yeah! I'm sure I've single-handedly managed to boost Apple's profits no end because of my posts here.
> 
> I'll be expecting my customised urban75 black turtleneck sweater in the post soon.



I reckon you wear one at home when no one's looking.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2008)

Structaural said:


> I reckon you wear one at home when no one's looking.


Of course I do. And I've got Apple-logo stamped underpants too.

Mmmm.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 22, 2008)

rofl, you loon


----------



## editor (Nov 23, 2008)

May I strongly suggest that no fuckwit whips out their iPhone and starts playing this piece of ridiculous  shit within earshot of me? They  may find that their iPhone becomes an _airborne_ iPhone.





> The app makes your iPhone/iPod Touch to become like a flute, by blowing into the phone/instrument. Or control pitch with different fingerings; it's because Ocarina is sensitive to your breath, touch and movements.



http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RhCJq7EAJJA

Same applies to this: 





> ...introducing the iLaugh! With this app you shake your iPhone, and it laughs. Shake it gently to make it giggle. The harder you shake it the harder it will laugh, until it reaches an uncontrollable eye-watering hysterical laugh!


http://appshopper.com/entertainment/you-shake-ilaugh

iCunts.


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 23, 2008)

editor said:


> May I strongly suggest that no fuckwit whips out their iPhone and starts playing this piece of ridiculous  shit within earshot of me? They  may find that their iPhone becomes an _airborne_ iPhone.
> .



I feel exactly the same abut anyone who comes near me with a Jamie Oliver recipe on a "pay it forward bollox"


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2008)

Ocarina is fun, at least for a few minutes. Its free, why be a killjoy?


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 24, 2008)

I do have to say I like the answer machine bit without having to ring up O2. And was rather impressed by listeing to it as a ipod then having a conversation when it rang cos the headphone have a little mic thingy on em. 

I quite liked that.


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2008)

elbows said:


> Ocarina is fun, at least for a few minutes. Its free, why be a killjoy?


If you think Ocarina  and iLaugh are both fantastic apps you go ahead and sing their praises, but I'm just as entitled to point out that I'd find them supremely annoying in my presence.

This is, after all, a discussion forum where people are allowed to offer opinions both positive and negative.





djbombscare said:


> And was rather impressed by listeing to it as a ipod then having a conversation when it rang cos the headphone have a little mic thingy on em.
> 
> I quite liked that.


Just about all smartphones do that.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 24, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> I do have to say I like the answer machine bit without having to ring up O2. And was rather impressed by listeing to it as a ipod then having a conversation when it rang cos the headphone have a little mic thingy on em.
> 
> I quite liked that.



Incase you'd not noticed that mic is also a button, single click to pause the track and double click to skip the track.

Also double click the home button brings up the iPod controls without having to unlock the phone.


----------



## djbombscare (Nov 24, 2008)

editor said:


> Just about all smartphones do that.




I'd not used a smartphones as a MP3 palyer before so it was quite nice to me and even though other phoine shave come with headphones. To discover that there was a little mike on it and that my mate could hear me was a nice little discovery. 

And thanks Sunray I didnt know and hadn't noticed that.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 24, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Incase you'd not noticed that mic is also a button, single click to pause the track and double click to skip the track.
> 
> Also double click the home button brings up the iPod controls without having to unlock the phone.



...also added in 2.2 - if you're on say page 7 of your screens and screens of apps - press Home to zip back to page 1.

Other than the increased stability of Safari - not very impressed with the update. No landscape in mail, still no copy and paste (though no surprise there) and Street-view - about as useful as a paper parachute... I had to scroll over to Barcelona just to see something familiar...

Oh well - had a go on a blackberry storm for a laugh today. Typing was horrible, the click doesn't help - just adds unnecessary effort, they shouldn't give up what makes the blackberry good - the hardware keyboard.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 24, 2008)

Street view, idea looking for a reason however cool. 

And yeah, does not do much.  Update all is a welcome button.  I look forward to the next few updates because after that, I think they will have to address some of the major weaknesses I see, the SMS tool, email and the app store, fuck cut and paste off for the moment.

I really don't think they realised App store would be so successful.  The games section now has 40 pages to scroll through which makes its a non-starter for anything other than list view on iTunes.  I think they might have to go to some wall of Icons that you can zoom into or something.


----------



## elbows (Nov 24, 2008)

editor said:


> If you think Ocarina  and iLaugh are both fantastic apps you go ahead and sing their praises, but I'm just as entitled to point out that I'd find them supremely annoying in my presence.
> 
> This is, after all, a discussion forum where people are allowed to offer opinions both positive and negative



Very true, I wasnt meaning to suggest you silence your opinion, though I guess  my words were sorta suggesting that, oops. Anyway the iphone has taught me that I am getting old, and that I am totally uncomfortable trying to 'show off' such devices. I mucked around with a few of the wackier apps in the presence of others at work and it just felt so wrong. If I was 14-20 again and lots of my friends had one, I could see it being a more natural part of my social life, maybe I would have no shame, cant really be sure.


----------



## editor (Nov 24, 2008)

Phew! Thankfully Mr Jobs is on hand to censor any apps deemed too 'racy' for sensitive iPhone users, belatedly banning some crappy soft porn app  that his half witted AppStore editors had already let through.
http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/apple-pulls-pornographic-iphone-app-487924?src=rss&attr=all

This follows the Brit graphic comic banned a few months ago. 
http://www.techradar.com/news/computing/-digital-comic-iphone-app-banned-458340


----------



## Sunray (Nov 24, 2008)

That would have required me to go onto the App store which I don't do any more. Its an over weight, grotesque behemoth of a thing that's there to just waste my time browsing through endless lists of (often inexplicable) rubbish applications. 

If I had my way, I ban most of it.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 25, 2008)

Structaural said:


> Oh well - had a go on a blackberry storm for a laugh today. Typing was horrible, the click doesn't help - just adds unnecessary effort, they shouldn't give up what makes the blackberry good - the hardware keyboard.



Fucking awful, innit. I couldn't believe how bad it was. Poor fuckers who ordered that without trying it out.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 25, 2008)

Structaural said:


> .
> 
> Oh well - had a go on a blackberry storm for a laugh today. Typing was horrible, the click doesn't help - just adds unnecessary effort, they shouldn't give up what makes the blackberry good - the hardware keyboard.



A mate of mine just got one, he hates it, it keeps crashing so he's sending it back this week to get an iPhone (he's a long time Blackberry user too)!


----------



## paolo (Nov 25, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Fucking awful, innit. I couldn't believe how bad it was. Poor fuckers who ordered that without trying it out.



Although I've not used the Storm, I did try one of the LG things with 'haptic feedback'. Horrible. I had to *press*, not tap. When you use a full PC keyboard, you tap, hammer perhaps, but never *press*.

Way too many pundits seemed to write up haptic feedback - pressing - as some kind missing link for screen keyboards. Like alot of reporting on tech, a case of reporting new 'advancements' without having any actual clue as to whether they are any good, or just make things worse. (See also: Voice Recognition, and a bunch of other stuff).


----------



## editor (Nov 25, 2008)

For anything but the shortest of messages, nothing beats a proper keyboard. No sir!


----------



## paolo (Nov 25, 2008)

If, by 'Proper', you mean usable, I'd completely agree.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 26, 2008)

Not trolling, just curious: is it true that on the iPhone there's no multi-tasking? I.E. you can't leave your mp3s playing whilst you're in Google Maps or writing a text?


----------



## Pie 1 (Nov 26, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Not trolling, just curious: is it true that on the iPhone there's no multi-tasking? I.E. you can't leave your mp3s playing whilst you're in Google Maps or writing a text?



Nope.
Writing this from one with music playing just fine.


----------



## editor (Nov 26, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Not trolling, just curious: is it true that on the iPhone there's no multi-tasking? I.E. you can't leave your mp3s playing whilst you're in Google Maps or writing a text?


The iPhone SDK will not allow 3rd party apps to multitask or run background services but - much like the Palm - you can do some forms of multitasking, like receiving mail in the background and playing music while accessing other programs.
http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2008/03/17/multitask-masters-brain-surgeon-stat/

Windows Mobile can do true multitasking but it's debatable whether it's such a great idea as it's easy to slow the phone down to a crawl with lots of apps open.

Edit: elsewhere, Apple have had their UK iPhone ad pulled for misleading punters about its speed.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7749435.stm


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 26, 2008)

Cheers Gents, it did seem very odd that that would be the case.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 26, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Not trolling, just curious: is it true that on the iPhone there's no multi-tasking? I.E. you can't leave your mp3s playing whilst you're in Google Maps or writing a text?



...starting writing this before ed's reply..

No third party app is allowed to background. But Apple's apps can - the ipod player will keep playing, Safari will stay in the background for a number of seconds to see if you'll return to the app, the phone.app is always runnning, the Mail.app leaves something running to alert to emails. But all other apps must quit completely when you press the home button (or will be forced-quited if you hold it down). Which doesn't allow the same running field for devs, but seriously saves the battery. They thought that that with push (which still hasn't been properly implemented beyond Apple's apps again) would stop the need for backgrounding. Which is bollocks, for some stuff you need it.
I think it should be up to the user, personally, also whether I want to cane my 3G network should be up to how much I want to pay my phone company.

Resources are scarce, the music player often stutters when using safari heavily. But hardly anyone writes good optimised code these days. It does seem a bit sharper after the update, but I've found a bug, auto-screen brightness will darken the screen to black if you activate the phone in a dark room (our bedroom is competely black).


----------



## Structaural (Nov 26, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> A mate of mine just got one, he hates it, it keeps crashing so he's sending it back this week to get an iPhone (he's a long time Blackberry user too)!



 I can see that they thought they needed to combat the iPhone but they should have stuck to their strengths or done a slide out keyboard.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 26, 2008)

Structaural said:


> I can see that they thought they needed to combat the iPhone but they should have stuck to their strengths or done a slide out keyboard.



Or just made a decent on screen keyboard. HTC have managed it.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 26, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Or just made a decent on screen keyboard. HTC have managed it.



So have Apple according to some


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 26, 2008)

Kanda said:


> So have Apple according to some



I wasn't suggesting the Apple one wasn't good, just that the Storm one is shit.

Although, that said, there are time I'm glad my screen is resistive and not capacitive (is that right?).


----------



## Sunray (Nov 26, 2008)

Only in as much as you have access to using something other than your finger for touch.  

This is one of the iPhones great moments, their choice of a capacitive touch screen (for visual clarity) ensure that they have no fall back to a stylus for interface elements, ensuring the interface is for fingers only.  Their % area covered algorithm is mega win for selecting web links easily even when fully zoomed out and the links are minuscule, just about 1st time every time.

Also ensures that having it in the bag unlocked is unlikely to do anything untoward like call your mates New Zealand mobile by accident.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 26, 2008)

Pod casts. Today I've been lapping up the pod casts which I can now download on the iPhones iTunes application. Nice alternative to music while I am working.

How MANY of these things are there!!!  I think I could never hear whats out there for this week alone in an entire lifetimes listening.  

*drowns in a sea of content*


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 26, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Only in as much as you have access to using something other than your finger for touch.
> 
> This is one of the iPhones great moments, their choice of a capacitive touch screen (for visual clarity) ensure that they have no fall back to a stylus for interface elements, ensuring the interface is for fingers only.  Their % area covered algorithm is mega win for selecting web links easily even when fully zoomed out and the links are minuscule, just about 1st time every time.
> 
> Also ensures that having it in the bag unlocked is unlikely to do anything untoward like call your mates New Zealand mobile by accident.



I like having the option to gently wipe away a little bit of dust off the screen without interrupting a video. Reviews suggest that the Touch HD is in a minority in that it's very sensitive so doesn't require any effort to activate.


----------



## paolo (Nov 26, 2008)

If you had a really *stiff* PC keyboard, you could clean it without accidentally pressing any keys. Would you want that? I wouldn't.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 26, 2008)

i'm talking the lightest of touches. I find it a more usable touch screen than the iPhone  - specially in gloves.


----------



## nick h. (Nov 27, 2008)

*Double the battery life for your iPhone 3G*

I've got my sister one of these for Xmas: http://gizmodo.com/5063778/mophie-juice-pack-for-iphone-3g-lightning-review-it-doubles-the-power

Flippin' expensive - especially with the duty and the UPS admin fee for paying the duty - but a rather neat solution.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 28, 2008)

nick h. said:


> I've got my sister one of these for Xmas: http://gizmodo.com/5063778/mophie-juice-pack-for-iphone-3g-lightning-review-it-doubles-the-power
> 
> Flippin' expensive - especially with the duty and the UPS admin fee for paying the duty - but a rather neat solution.



Ug.

If I wanted a truly obese phone I would have bought a N95.

You were stiffed.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 28, 2008)

If anyone wants apple stuff they've got a one day sale on today.


----------



## nick h. (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Ug.
> 
> If I wanted a truly obese phone I would have bought a N95.
> 
> You were stiffed.



Well she chose it. Sometimes she works a 14 hour day without a chance to recharge. And when she's not working a 14 hour day she can leave the obesity at home.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 28, 2008)

The battery life is the main thing putting me off. It'll have to be 2x or 3x for me to even consider it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 28, 2008)

It can't be worse than the Centro, and if I can live with that I'm sure the iPhone won't be that bad...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Ug.
> 
> If I wanted a truly obese phone I would have bought a N95.
> 
> You were stiffed.



Nonsense. For some people a battery that lasts a couple of days is more important than how slim it is.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 28, 2008)

I have a battery pack but its not one that makes my phone look ugly.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It can't be worse than the Centro, and if I can live with that I'm sure the iPhone won't be that bad...


Difference is, you can just sling a couple of tiny batteries in your bag for the Centro and you're covered for the longest of days out.

Not possible with the iPhone.

(PS Are you using Power Hero on the Centro? That makes a huge difference - I've never run out of juice yet),


----------



## Sunray (Nov 28, 2008)

editor said:


> Difference is, you can just sling a couple of tiny batteries in your bag for the Centro and you're covered for the longest of days out.
> 
> Not possible with the iPhone.
> 
> (PS Are you using Power Hero on the Centro? That makes a huge difference - I've never run out of juice yet),



Instead just sling my power pack into my bag. Slim and light. 3 days later I will run out of juice.  Splitting hairs and not really worth a mention.

When my battery dies is when the story changes.  I decided that by then I would probably be looking at the new Apple (and now Android) phones anyway.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 28, 2008)

Anyone know of powerpack type thingies with a mini USB output that would fit my G1?

I'm getting a days use out of it at the moment, but there have been a couple of days where it's been bloody close, and if I'd been doing more with the GPS I'd have run out.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Instead just sling my power pack into my bag. Slim and light. 3 days later I will run out of juice.  Splitting hairs and not really worth a mention.



*hand waggle* - you're still constrained more than you would be with a replaceable battery. How long does it take to drain the power pack and get the phone back up to full charge? Cos during that time, you're going to be pluggin and unplugging it each time you take a call.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 28, 2008)

editor said:


> Difference is, you can just sling a couple of tiny batteries in your bag for the Centro and you're covered for the longest of days out.
> 
> Not possible with the iPhone.
> 
> (PS Are you using Power Hero on the Centro? That makes a huge difference - I've never run out of juice yet),



That's a fair point although like I said if it's the same or slightly better I could live with it. Nah, tried the trial and didn't buy (as I'd bought a few too many apps at the time)...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 28, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Anyone know of powerpack type thingies with a mini USB output that would fit my G1?
> 
> I'm getting a days use out of it at the moment, but there have been a couple of days where it's been bloody close, and if I'd been doing more with the GPS I'd have run out.



Blimey, you're doing well. Every review I read said you're lucky to get a day out of the G1.

it's expensive, but the Power Monkey is very useful and comes with a million adapters.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 28, 2008)

Crispy said:


> *hand waggle* - you're still constrained more than you would be with a replaceable battery. How long does it take to drain the power pack and get the phone back up to full charge? Cos during that time, you're going to be pluggin and unplugging it each time you take a call.




I can fully charge my iPhone from dead on the power pack I have in about 30min. Having it plugged in isn't so much of a problem tbh, can still use it while its charging, don't have to unplug.  Cables doesn't get in the way really.  I was pleasantly surprised how unobtrusive it was plugged in. Get two charges out of it.

This is the one I use Bee's, quite happy its very light 90g and a bit smaller and thinner than the iPhone with a nice glossy plastic case.  You can charge it from a PC if you want with the correct cable.  USB only.

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=UPB10


----------



## nick h. (Nov 28, 2008)

Got two spares for my G1 now. Less than £6 each inc postage. Fookin' brilliant. They're so small you can store them comfortably between your arse cheeks.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 28, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I can fully charge my iPhone from dead on the power pack I have in about 30min.



Ah, but there's a difference between the phone saying it's full and it being full. A phone battery says it's full after charging for 30 mins, but it rarely anything more than 30% full in reality. Bit like the first charge thing.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 28, 2008)

Well, I got 3 days of use out of it at Bestival with the power pack, cant remember if that was pre or post 2.1 either.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 28, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Blimey, you're doing well. Every review I read said you're lucky to get a day out of the G1.



I've come to the conclusion that for a huge number if reviews out there the people concerned either a) didn't even have a phone to review, or b) had decided it was crap before they started and deliberately went out of their way to make it sound bad.  There's a quite incredible amount of bollocks out there.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 29, 2008)

I'm considering getting an iphone now my contract is up. I currently have one question: the screen - can you 'lock' it like a normal phone? Or, in other words, is there something that stops it from being activated when it's in your pocket/bag etc?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 29, 2008)

Yes, you can, and it won't be activated in a bag either - random bumps from non-fingers won't do it.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Nov 29, 2008)

Thank you 

My best friend at uni is vehemently anti-apple, and I'm this close (picture my fingers really, really close together) to killing her in the face each time she goes off on some rant. I'm considering never answering calls when she's nearby 

I wasn't considering an iphone at all, and was looking at the C902/905. But having had a look at them, they're pretty fugly compared to the iphone, and obviously don't have half the functionality. I don't need a 'smartphone', but having needed my email on the go this week I've realised how damn clunky my nokia n73 has been using the web - something more geared up for the web is getting to be a must at this point. I don't need all the bells and whistles, not being a business user or whatever, but having had a play with the iphone in store a bit I like the feel of it and it just seems to 'make sense', iykwim.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 29, 2008)

The iPhone is perfect for you then, you're the exact target market.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 29, 2008)

Oh, yeah, I have an N73 and it's just a pain in the arse doing almost anything. Sort out your bloody UI, Nokia, it's the damn same as my first ever smartishphone over five years ago, just with prettier icons.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 29, 2008)

n73 is too underpowered for the os. it,s a clunky pain in the arse.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 30, 2008)

Even on a faster phone, I agree with FridgeMagnet. Nokia phones no longer wow me when I get one, I've had a fair few S60 phones now and the OS really needs updating. Will probably jump ship some point next year when Android is available on more phones (and networks).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 30, 2008)

I had the N73, it was ok at first but it became sluggish after about 8 months, and very fucking annoying by the end (bought a Centro once I'd had enough)...


----------



## Structaural (Dec 2, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Ah, but there's a difference between the phone saying it's full and it being full. A phone battery says it's full after charging for 30 mins, but it rarely anything more than 30% full in reality. Bit like the first charge thing.



Not true, they're not NiCads, you're up to about 80-90% within 30 mins, then it starts trickling and takes a while to get to 'full'. As long as you do the monthly discharge and recharge, the batt indicator is pretty accurate (no more than this - fucks up Lith-ions if you do it too much). 
I find the battery on this no worse than any other backlit heavily used smartphone, my mates N95 does no better if he's surfing or watching movies. Since the 2.1 update the battery has much improved - before then I was lucky to get to the end of the day.
I carry round one of the those proporta packs, they're very cheap and light and the equivalent of carrying two extra batteries powerwise. They come with loads of connectors, though the iPhone one could be better made - got a new one on it's way. (just checked out that powermonkey- they do a solar powered version )


----------



## Sunray (Dec 2, 2008)

I would say that the battery is a little bit better with 2.2 as well.  I was using it as an iPod for 2 days straight and it was still at over 1/2.


----------



## paolo (Dec 2, 2008)

With 2.2, a week or so ago I got 36 hours standby, with 6 hours usage. A bit of a one off, but actually waaay better total than anything I saw on the 2G.


----------



## elbows (Dec 2, 2008)

Yeah when hardly using the device lately Ive been getting better battery than I was getting on an N95, I hadnt really thought about whether 2.2 helped. Im not looking forward to the eventual loss of performance of the battery.


----------



## rocketman (Dec 3, 2008)

Unload warning, unload warning:
Gadgets are boring, people are better. The only iPhone app worth having is Ocarina, Apple is a corporation, I hate everything.
Thanks, I needed that


----------



## Iam (Dec 3, 2008)

You feeling ok, rocket?


----------



## rocketman (Dec 3, 2008)

Iam said:


> You feeling ok, rocket?



Nope.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 3, 2008)

rocketman said:


> Unload warning, unload warning:
> Gadgets are boring, people are better. The only iPhone app worth having is Ocarina, Apple is a corporation, I hate everything.
> Thanks, I needed that



Nah, the only app worth having is Flick Fishing.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 4, 2008)

Better headphones finally released with a proper remote...

http://www.macuser.co.uk/news/240531


----------



## Kanda (Dec 4, 2008)

Structaural said:


> Better headphones finally released with a proper remote...
> 
> http://www.macuser.co.uk/news/240531



£55 just for +/- Volume and the ability to go BACK??

Fuck that!!


----------



## Sunray (Dec 4, 2008)

The free ones are pretty decent and open so I can use them at work and still hear people.

For 55 quid they are going to have to be great.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 4, 2008)

The headphones that come _with_ ipods are SHIT!
These ones look pretty good, but are damned pricey.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 4, 2008)

http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iPhone says iPhone updates are expected soonish (although warning not before 32gb chips go into production early 09). I'm thnking I'll hold off until the 3rd incarnaiton, hoping the battery will be better (plus user-changeable - the EU is thinking of making uder-changeable batteries compulsary), and that MMS and copy&paste will be implemented by then.

It's so tough, I'm not very good with delayed gratification.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 4, 2008)

Kanda said:


> £55 just for +/- Volume and the ability to go BACK??
> 
> Fuck that!!



Lol, they're better speakers too.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 4, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iPhone says iPhone updates are expected soonish (although warning not before 32gb chips go into production early 09). I'm thnking I'll hold off until the 3rd incarnaiton, hoping the battery will be better (plus user-changeable - the EU is thinking of making uder-changeable batteries compulsary), and that MMS and copy&paste will be implemented by then.
> 
> It's so tough, I'm not very good with delayed gratification.



Oh, and a slightly better camera would be nice, although not a deal breaker.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 4, 2008)

Standard iHeadphones are one size fits all and therefore shite. They are too big for my ears and hurt when i wear them for any length of time.

With the result that i wear these and lose remote control / mic funtionality. Shite tbh that I'm forced to lose that funtionality for the sake of having comfortable earhones.

As I said before they should have a remote lead that you can plug any headhones into imo.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 4, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> Oh, and a slightly better camera would be nice, although not a deal breaker.



It really is shit, I'm always amazed how actually shit it is. Unless you and your subject can hold rock still and it's bright and sunny. Then it's just a bit shit.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 4, 2008)

Crispy said:


> The headphones that come _with_ ipods are SHIT!
> These ones look pretty good, but are damned pricey.



Not the ones that come with my phone, they are pretty decent, bit bass light, but overall very respectable headphones.

I am comparing them to the Grado SR60's and the ER4i.  

Both of those offer superior sonics, but its not like the iPhone's headphones are like some pound shop offering.  

We are talking MP3's here which are the weakest link in that chain.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 4, 2008)

Structaural said:


> It really is shit, I'm always amazed how actually shit it is. Unless you and your subject can hold rock still and it's bright and sunny. Then it's just a bit shit.



http://www.flickr.com/groups/takenwithiphone/

This is what people are currently able to take, with practice I imagine. Depends on what you want to do with it I guess.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 4, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iPhone says iPhone updates are expected soonish (although warning not before 32gb chips go into production early 09). I'm thnking I'll hold off until the 3rd incarnaiton, hoping the battery will be better (plus user-changeable - the EU is thinking of making uder-changeable batteries compulsary), and that MMS and copy&paste will be implemented by then.
> 
> It's so tough, I'm not very good with delayed gratification.


 
I don't need 32gb storage. More RAM would be nice though.
Easily to swap in and out batteries would be good too. Thinking about it, its anti-competative to not give me a choice to use a better 3rd party battery if i want.
MMS? I'm not holding my breath as we've not even heard the tiniest of rumours despite strong critism of this 
C&P Hopefully will land one day.

I'm not going to but any more iPhones but am going to wait for this contract to run out and see what is the best smartphone on the market at that time. Now that the competition is here.


----------



## Fingers (Dec 4, 2008)

Just found the free app MyRailLite.  It uses google maps to find your nearest station and then tells you the departure time/delays and shit.  great app.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 4, 2008)

Marius said:


> I don't need 32gb storage. More RAM would be nice though.
> Easily to swap in and out batteries would be good too. Thinking about it, its anti-competative to not give me a choice to use a better 3rd party battery if i want.
> MMS? I'm not holding my breath as we've not even heard the tiniest of rumours despite strong critism of this
> C&P Hopefully will land one day.
> ...



If they release a 32gb iPhone early in teh new year, I imagine the 16gb will start becoming the free option on a lot of contracts, in which case I'll get one of those. I've only just started using MMS messaging recently, so I'm almost positive I won't miss it, and I don't use c&p much, despite it being useful when I do. As for the batteries, it's something Apple have been slated for time and time again, and clearly the only way they'll implement user-replacable ones is through legislation. As for the camera, there are some cool apps out there that seem to help the mimicing of toy cameras - which is what I like anyway. So the crappy camera isn't too much of an issue. I've bought phones in the past for their good cameras, and only found I never use them because I prefer my own real cameras.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 4, 2008)

I'm upset the way they changed how free aps were displayed on iTunes.

You used to be able to browse all free aps based on date released order. So I used to keep an eye out for what was new and whether or not it was of any use to me.

Now there are lots of obscure free aps that never make it to my attention.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 4, 2008)

You should still be able to use the Browse view, no? Gives you a filterable list view of apps, just like Browse view for your music library...


----------



## Structaural (Dec 4, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> http://www.flickr.com/groups/takenwithiphone/
> 
> This is what people are currently able to take, with practice I imagine. Depends on what you want to do with it I guess.



The guy I work with has this tiny little HTC mobile - the pics look comparable to an Ixus.. I mainly use mine to take a portrait and then mess it up with Face Melter...

I did see one interesting app that uses the accelerometer- when you're definitely holding still it triggers the phone. That might help  (Night camera it's called).


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 4, 2008)

Structaural said:


> The guy I work with has this tiny little HTC mobile - the pics look comparable to an Ixus.. I mainly use mine to take a portrait and then mess it up with Face Melter...
> 
> I did see one interesting app that uses the accelerometer- when you're definitely holding still it triggers the phone. That might help  (Night camera it's called).



I saw that app, the reviews weren't glowing though.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 4, 2008)

Fingers said:


> Just found the free app MyRailLite.  It uses google maps to find your nearest station and then tells you the departure time/delays and shit.  great app.



There's a similar Dutch version (Trein), it's the most downloaded app from the netherlands app store, I (have to) use it every morning (dutch trains are as bad as english ones in winter, some cargo train derailed last week and trashed half the east Amsterdam network for a week and a half).


----------



## Crispy (Dec 4, 2008)

I've decided not to bother with a smartphone, for battery reasons mainly, and also because I like taking my phone places where it's possible for me to lose or damage it.

But I will get an ipod touch. My old HD ipod broke down (twice) due to the moving parts, so any replacement had to be solid state. The touch gets a better battery life than the nano, _and_ it's a great little handheld computer for pissing about on the web while laying in bed etc. I won't be able to put all my music on it, but given the amount of stuff I always skip straight past when listening to random, I think this is probably a good thing. It'll force me to be selective


----------



## Structaural (Dec 4, 2008)

Marius said:


> I'm not going to but any more iPhones but am going to wait for this contract to run out and see what is the best smartphone on the market at that time. Now that the competition is here.



All I know is when this 2 year contract with T-mobile ends they're never getting my money again - or Vodaphone. Tossers.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 4, 2008)

Crispy said:


> I've decided not to bother with a smartphone, for battery reasons mainly, and also because I like taking my phone places where it's possible for me to lose or damage it.
> 
> But I will get an ipod touch. My old HD ipod broke down (twice) due to the moving parts, so any replacement had to be solid state. The touch gets a better battery life than the nano, _and_ it's a great little handheld computer for pissing about on the web while laying in bed etc. I won't be able to put all my music on it, but given the amount of stuff I always skip straight past when listening to random, I think this is probably a good thing. It'll force me to be selective



and the processor is around 50% faster than the iPhone, so everything is a bit nippier 

http://www.macrumors.com/2008/11/22/2nd-generation-ipod-touch-faster-than-iphone/

(I just think it's a bit expensive though, the iphone works out cheaper for me and I can almost always access the net - my main use).


----------



## Crispy (Dec 4, 2008)

Yeah, a bit pricey, but I'm getting a contribution towards it for xmas 

No present surprises in the crisparrow household this year


----------



## Sunray (Dec 4, 2008)

Crispy said:


> I've decided not to bother with a smartphone, for battery reasons mainly, and also because I like taking my phone places where it's *possible for me to lose or damage it*.
> 
> But I will get an ipod touch. My old HD ipod broke down (twice) due to the moving parts, so any replacement had to be solid state. The touch gets a better battery life than the nano, _and_ it's a great little handheld computer for pissing about on the web while laying in bed etc. I won't be able to put all my music on it, but given the amount of stuff I always skip straight past when listening to random, I think this is probably a good thing. It'll force me to be selective



Awww






As for a 32Gb version, I am not so bothered as I was, simply because I've never gone beyond 10Gb, generally removing stuff as I add it.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 4, 2008)

You guys in this thread need to have a look at the Nokia N97 and incorporate it into your various arguments.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 4, 2008)

teuchter said:


> You guys in this thread need to have a look at the Nokia N97 and incorporate it into your various arguments.



It does look very, very nice. Still S60 though, innit?


----------



## Structaural (Dec 4, 2008)

ChrisFilter said:


> Still S60 though, innit?



innit. They should go with Android at the least. Nice phone though, it can has haptic?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 4, 2008)

Structaural said:


> innit. They should go with Android at the least. Nice phone though, it can has haptic?



Yep, an Android version of that would be cool.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 4, 2008)

teuchter said:


> You guys in this thread need to have a look at the Nokia N97 and incorporate it into your various arguments.


 
Its sounds brilliant but for one thing...

Its a Nokia. 

I've never liked Nokia.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 4, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iPhone says iPhone updates are expected soonish (although warning not before 32gb chips go into production early 09). I'm thnking I'll hold off until the 3rd incarnaiton, hoping the battery will be better (plus user-changeable - the EU is thinking of making uder-changeable batteries compulsary), and that MMS and copy&paste will be implemented by then.
> 
> It's so tough, I'm not very good with delayed gratification.



The lack of storage is off putting for me, 32 gig would be a very nice number to have, it'd mean being able to store all my music, have a shit load of apps and loads of films/episodes of Family Guy etc too!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 4, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, an Android version of that would be cool.



Can't see it sadly after they just forked out all that cash for symbian.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 4, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> Can't see it sadly after they just forked out all that cash for symbian.



Yeah...but still, big picture wise this along with the iPhone, BB Storm, Sony X1, HTC HD and G1 (to name a few) is a good thing. The more choice the more competition the more competition the better, and cheaper smart phones we'll get!


----------



## paolo (Dec 4, 2008)

There's a new bar, I think.

Above: QWERTY input, decent resolution, 'real' browser.

Below: 12 key input, low res screen, 'mobile' browser.

Devices that are premium price but below the bar are toast; e.g. the N95


----------



## Pie 1 (Dec 5, 2008)

Structaural said:


> It really is shit, I'm always amazed how actually shit it is.



So am I. It's pretty much unusable tbh.
The EV on it is completely underexposed.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 5, 2008)

Fingers said:


> Just found the free app MyRailLite.  It uses google maps to find your nearest station and then tells you the departure time/delays and shit.  great app.



Good call. Downloaded it yesterday and like its format lots.

A shame that it doesn't include tube stations too. Maybe thats being saved for a paid version.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 5, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> There's a new bar, I think.
> 
> Above: QWERTY input, decent resolution, 'real' browser.
> 
> ...



I think you may have a real point there...


----------



## editor (Dec 5, 2008)

In New York, iPhone's are *everywhere* although Blackberry still rules the roost.

Poor old Palm though. I've barely seen anyone use one and last year there were tons of them about.


----------



## djbombscare (Dec 6, 2008)

I just realised my maps are in km now and miles anymore. 

Apparentlly I can switch it onto US regional settings and fuck everything else up, but wtf ?

I'm gettin fucked off with being force fed km's either we work in miles or change fucking everything.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2008)

editor said:


> In New York, iPhone's are *everywhere* although Blackberry still rules the roost.
> 
> Poor old Palm though. I've barely seen anyone use one and last year there were tons of them about.



Something I've noticed on the tube in the mornings is everyone has an iPhone or BB. Only a year ago I used to see the odd Treo 650 or 750 but these days never...


----------



## pk (Dec 7, 2008)

Structaural said:


> All I know is when this 2 year contract with T-mobile ends they're never getting my money again - or Vodaphone. Tossers.



You know, it's definitely possible to fuck the contract off, some companies might pay the release charge for you to get you to join.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 7, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> I just realised my maps are in km now and miles anymore.
> 
> Apparentlly I can switch it onto US regional settings and fuck everything else up, but wtf ?
> 
> I'm gettin fucked off with being force fed km's either we work in miles or change fucking everything.




Thats a bug, report it.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 7, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, a bit pricey, but I'm getting a contribution towards it for xmas
> 
> No present surprises in the crisparrow household this year



No nor in ours- we're buying half a playstation for each other


----------



## editor (Dec 7, 2008)

Those whoopin', high-fivin' Apple borg staff are duplicating. Gaze in horror at this latest consumer-fest ritual in Germany:


----------



## djbombscare (Dec 7, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Thats a bug, report it.



If you look on the forums there's a load that have. 
Not so much a bug as shite design I think


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 7, 2008)

editor said:


> Those whoopin', high-fivin' Apple borg staff are duplicating. Gaze in horror at this latest consumer-fest ritual in Germany:




Christ almighty


----------



## paolo (Dec 7, 2008)

App recommendation, if you like real time strategy... Warfare Inc. Basically it's command and conquer. Touch UI is great... E.g multi-touch to do rectangular selection of units. Very addictive, just like the original. Multiplayer is coming too.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 7, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Something I've noticed on the tube in the mornings is everyone has an iPhone or BB. Only a year ago I used to see the odd Treo 650 or 750 but these days never...



Blackberries I've seen for a while, but yes, iPhones/iTouches are a lot more common nowadays. There's been a couple of every carriage I've been on recently during rush hour, just that I've seen. Of course, the fact that touches look the same as phones makes it hard to really say.


----------



## pk (Dec 8, 2008)

editor said:


> Those whoopin', high-fivin' Apple borg staff are duplicating. Gaze in horror at this latest consumer-fest ritual in Germany:




Jesus H McDonnelly, that really is one of the most sickening things I have ever seen.

But then to be fair, they dig David Hasslehoff and they do like a well designed bit of machinery in Munchen. Maybe they get paid extra every time they say "woo!". 
I'd be "woo"ing lots too, if that were the case, and to hell with dignity.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 8, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> If you look on the forums there's a load that have.
> Not so much a bug as shite design I think



No, shit design would prevent them having miles, clearly they have bundled the UK into Europe.  They may give a switch at some point just don't hold your breath.  Just moan on the web site.

All the iPhone problems are easily sortable by software, its just their priorities don't seem to be their users ones.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 8, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Blackberries I've seen for a while, but yes, iPhones/iTouches are a lot more common nowadays. There's been a couple of every carriage I've been on recently during rush hour, just that I've seen. Of course, the fact that touches look the same as phones makes it hard to really say.



I actually wasn't including the touch. I rarely see 1st gen iPhone's at all these days. You can spot a 3g one easily due to the different earphone (or that virtually every touch/iPhone seems to find an excuse to whip it out and fiddle with it in that special smug Apple fanboy way...).


----------



## Pie 1 (Dec 8, 2008)

editor said:


> Those whoopin', high-fivin' Apple borg staff are duplicating. Gaze in horror at this latest consumer-fest ritual in Germany:




Holy fuck.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 8, 2008)

It's not smug. More like an addicted trance.

My friend says it not me until ive gotten my iPhone out at least once.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 8, 2008)

Marius said:


> It's not smug. More like an addicted trance.
> 
> My friend says it not me until ive gotten my iPhone out at least once.



Trust me its smug. The number of posers I've seen fiddling with it and looking up every so often to see if anyone's watching is amusing!


----------



## Structaural (Dec 8, 2008)

editor said:


> Those whoopin', high-fivin' Apple borg staff are duplicating. Gaze in horror at this latest consumer-fest ritual in Germany:




creepy *shivers*


----------



## Gromit (Dec 8, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Trust me its smug. The number of posers I've seen fiddling with it and looking up every so often to see if anyone's watching is amusing!


 
Ah newbies! Poor things have got here too late to get the ooh thats cool vibe off other people as everyone has seen them by now.

This is the stage where i go off my phone a bit because everyone seems to have one. 
Like when the razr went from cool to common as muck and you gotta do the "is that my phone or your's dance".
Its still a great phone that I'm glued to but its no longer an 'expensive shiny wow toy'. Just expensive 

There will be a ton of newbies after christmas (pay as you go pressies). Watch the data network struggle under the 'unexpected' (easily predicted) extra demand and piss me off big time.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 8, 2008)

editor said:


> Those whoopin', high-fivin' Apple borg staff are duplicating. Gaze in horror at this latest consumer-fest ritual in Germany:




Did you do a search to see if there is a thread for this already?  

The one-week iQueue. The saddest fanboys of the lot 
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=256062&highlight=saddest+fanboys


----------



## djbombscare (Dec 8, 2008)

Sunray said:


> No, shit design would prevent them having miles, clearly they have bundled the UK into Europe.



No it is shit design and the only reason they have miles is cos they use them. 


If it not shit design then it can only fall into one of the below excuses. The designers are:

American
Ignorant
Fucking stupid
All of the above.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 8, 2008)

Well, what ever, its trivial, I can think in either distances, so I'd not really noticed.  Its Googles application remember, so complain to them.

Personally I'd like Apple team to concentrate on the SMS and email clients.  They are the main problems for me.


----------



## paolo (Dec 8, 2008)

Minor correction, and little known: Google Maps on the iPhone is actually developed by Apple, apparently.


----------



## editor (Dec 8, 2008)

Marius said:


> Did you do a search to see if there is a thread for this already?
> 
> The one-week iQueue. The saddest fanboys of the lot


Err, that thread is about a totally different Apple-manufactured consume-fest.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 9, 2008)

*SimCity Coming to the iPhone and iPod Touch!*

Cool!!



> It seems Electronic Arts, the developers of Spore, will soon (later this month…as we are told) be bringing SimCity to the iPhone and iPod Touch! The people over at kotaku think that it will be a rather impressive integration of the game.  “Whatever you do, though, don’t go thinking this is SimCity Lite. This mobile version is fully featured, with pre-built cities, accountant recommendations, water pipes, natural disasters, etc. The works.
> 
> 
> Zooming in as close as you can on the 2D sprites reveals intricate details, such a smoke emitting from towers, or shading alongside the buildings. Overall, a really nice graphical presentation that compares similarly to SimCity 3000.”​



Good stuff, hopefully we'll see Civ on them too.


----------



## paolo (Dec 9, 2008)

OMG... More hours of my life about to be lost.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 9, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> OMG... More hours of my life about to be lost.





I don't know why more RTS/strategy games aren't just pouring onto the iPhone/touch, they'd do so well...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 9, 2008)

I await the fuel cell powered iPhone that makes this practical, or people have entirely lost sight that its actually something you make and receive calls on.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2008)

It's on the touch too, which is looking more and more likely to be my next mp3 player...


----------



## Gromit (Dec 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I await the fuel cell powered iPhone that makes this practical, or people have entirely lost sight that its actually something you make and receive calls on.



I rarely make phone calls on mobiles. Never really have.

Always more for txting. 

Now more so for email and internet.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

Marius said:


> I rarely make phone calls on mobiles. Never really have.
> 
> Always more for txting.
> 
> Now more so for email and internet.



OK, but if your gonna play Sim City on it then your not going to have much battery left to do any of that.


----------



## djbombscare (Dec 10, 2008)

I've never really got the game thing on phones. 

I'd much prefer to stick to gaming on pc and consoles. 

But I suppose its the whole thing of one gadget replacing all. How much succes did nokia get with eth ngage ?

Would this be another sign of apple trying to take on Sony?

I means if we look at it now Apple are going head to head with Microsoft in the PC race. That been stale mate for donkeys years. There the Mp3 player battle. Nokia and Sony erciccson, for phone, now sony for games machines. Tom Tom for satnav. 

Dont get me wrong I understand that apple are big and they create objects of desire, with a huge marketing machine behind it to make the world think apple invented something rather then redesigned someone else's idea.

BUT surely would you think they are only a McDonald's away from the full set of coporate competition targets and possibly lining themselves up for a fall?

I've also just used some Samsung omnia thing and its wicked. Better camera, GPS maps are cool, touchscreens fine, and a thousand times easier to pick up and use as I've used a smartphone before


----------



## tarannau (Dec 10, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> I
> Would this be another sign of apple trying to take on Sony?



They're doing a fairly good job at that to be honest. Taken the number one spot from the walkman brand with the ipod with room to spare. An ever increasing share of the 'premium' laptop and style desktops that the Vaio range occupies, complete with cherry picking a fair few Vaio designers. And the iphone's shaping up to be a decent mobile gaming platform, capitalising on a wii like different control mechanism. The number of ipod touches sold and itunes make it an attractive market to developers. 

IIRC Apple's market cap is a fair bit higher than Sony's too, which led to some (hopefully provocative) speculation than Apple could takeover Sony a year or so back


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> I've also just used some Samsung omnia thing and its wicked. Better camera, GPS maps are cool, touchscreens fine, and a thousand times easier to pick up and use as I've used a smartphone before



Resistive Touchscreen, Windows Mobile 6.1 professional 

Fail


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Resistive Touchscreen, Windows Mobile 6.1 professional
> 
> Fail


PC Pro have just done a comprehensive review of all the main smartphones, and declared the HTC Touch HD the winner...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

Its great feature wise so are millions of phones but its not an iPod and Windows Mobile 6.1.  

I've been told that WM requires you to change a setting to go from 3g to Wifi? Is that true?


----------



## djbombscare (Dec 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Resistive Touchscreen, Windows Mobile 6.1 professional



windows mobile's alright mate.

I found the Samsung touchscreen brilliant. The most important thing for me is not putting people on hold with my ear when I use it. Which it didnt do so its alright in my book. Worked the same as the iphone screen as far as I could tell.


----------



## djbombscare (Dec 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Its great feature wise so are millions of phones but its not an iPod and Windows Mobile 6.1.
> 
> I've been told that WM requires you to change a setting to go from 3g to Wifi? Is that true?



I've always just gone connect via wifi.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> I've always just gone connect via wifi.



So its not transparent seamless switching like the iPhone?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

Resistive touch screens are not as responsive as capacitive and have that slight squidgyness to them.

Their main benefit is in countries where its so cold you don't want to take your gloves off.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> So its not transparent seamless switching like the iPhone?



As orange are tight with their data deal, I think that could be seen as a good thing.

Resistive touch screens are not as responsive as capacitive and have that slight squidgyness to them.



Sunray said:


> Their main benefit is in countries where its so cold you don't want to take your gloves off.



Like the UK? 

I was surprised how hard you had to push, I was scared to break the thing. The old Motorola I had you just used the lightest of taps with a stylus. Still the screen broke, which probably says something.


----------



## djbombscare (Dec 10, 2008)

Sunray said:


> So its not transparent seamless switching like the iPhone?



I've not found my iphone connect seamlessly either. It always asks me if I want to connect via wifi whenever I try anything that can use it. And it wont connect to our network anyway as its locked down, and the protocol used is not recognised by the iphone.

TBH Windows is only a case of turn on wifi and it will connect to what it can
With that I can use our network as the network security is recognised in windows. Swings and roudnabouts I'd say


----------



## Crispy (Dec 10, 2008)

Weird. Got the latest firmware?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 10, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> It always asks me if I want to connect via wifi whenever I try anything that can use it.


 
You have Ask to join Networks set to On in settings?


----------



## Kanda (Dec 10, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> I've not found my iphone connect seamlessly either. It always asks me if I want to connect via wifi whenever I try anything that can use it.



Well change the option in the settings so it doesn't keep asking...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> I've not found my iphone connect seamlessly either. It always asks me if I want to connect via wifi whenever I try anything that can use it. And it wont connect to our network anyway as its locked down, and the protocol used is not recognised by the iphone.
> 
> TBH Windows is only a case of turn on wifi and it will connect to what it can
> With that I can use our network as the network security is recognised in windows. Swings and roudnabouts I'd say



Not set it up properly.


----------



## djbombscare (Dec 10, 2008)

Yes mate its all bang up to date and its not a complaint.

I know why it wont connect as I work in data encyrption with my focus is now on network encryption and the iphone and balckberry. We'be doen windows me. Thats why I have an iphone.



And I think I like it asking, That way I know what I'm connecting to


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

What protocol is your Wifi using? 

This is the list of protocols it supports
*VPN*
iPhone and iPod touch work with VPN servers that support the following protocols and
authentication methods:
Â L2TP/IPSec with user authentication by MS-CHAPV2 Password, RSA SecurID and
CryptoCard, and machine authentication by shared secret.
Â PPTP with user authentication by MS-CHAPV2 Password, RSA SecurID, and
CryptoCard.
Â Cisco IPSec with user authentication by Password, RSA SecurID, or CryptoCard, and
machine authentication by shared secret and certificates. See Appendix A for
compatible Cisco VPN servers and recommendations about configurations.

*Network Security*
iPhone and iPod touch support the following 802.11i wireless networking security
standards as defined by the Wi-Fi Alliance:
 WEP
 WPA Personal
 WPA Enterprise
 WPA2 Personal
 WPA2 Enterprise

Additionally, iPhone and iPod touch support the following 802.1X authentication
methods for WPA Enterprise and WPA2 Enterprise networks:
 EAP-TLS
 EAP -TTLS
 EAP-FAST
 PEAP v0, PEAP v1
 LEAP


----------



## djbombscare (Dec 10, 2008)

Sunray thanks for trying to help. But I know why it wont connect to our networks. This is what we are working on.
 Needless to say when we've finished that list should be longer.

And I'm not going into too details on the internet. 

I think the best way to describe it is we create a network that doesn’t use those and replaces them with algorithms that can run up to 1024 bit.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> Sunray thanks for trying to help. But I know why it wont connect to our networks. This is what we are working on.
> Needless to say when we've finished that list should be longer.
> 
> And I'm not going into too details on the internet.
> ...



Ah so custom protocols. 

Apart from your proprietary network, it should only ask once for the rest.


----------



## djbombscare (Dec 10, 2008)

Yes mate that why I was saying I know why it wont connect. 

We've done the windows ones, and are now working on the iphone and blackberry

This is how I got to work with the Samsung one tother day as we were working on a flash for one of those.


----------



## pengaleng (Dec 10, 2008)

First post from my shiny new iPhone


----------



## Crispy (Dec 10, 2008)

I was being thrown around by the gforce on the tube tonight and it occoured to me that the accelerometers will pick that up so if you're rolling the marble round the maze, you'd have to compensate when the train's slowing down. Right?


----------



## djbombscare (Dec 10, 2008)

tribal_princess said:


> First post from my shiny new iPhone




Then you need to sign off with: 

"post sent from iPhone"

its actually the law now


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

Crispy said:


> I was being thrown around by the gforce on the tube tonight and it occoured to me that the accelerometers will pick that up so if you're rolling the marble round the maze, you'd have to compensate when the train's slowing down. Right?



Of course, you'd be a very skillful player to play tilt on the tube when its moving.


----------



## paolo (Dec 10, 2008)

Hmm maybe. The accelerometer detects tilt, but does it detect shift? Two different things.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2008)

iPhones have completely taken over New York and you could hardy move for mobs of iPhone-toting hipsters all, err, 'thinking differently.'

Mind you, it's easy to see why it's done so well. Most American mobiles are truly fucking hideous and the iPhone's like something beamed down from the Starship Enterprise via Planet Slick compared to most of the nasty phones offered on their contract deals.

Without wi-fi, my phone was overflowing with fail in New York. I felt most '2006' next to all those screen smudgin', menu-flickin' iPhone bods.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 10, 2008)

TBH honest for the average consumer in UK its still leaps ahead then what they had before. A smart phone for people who may not have bought one before as it was to geeky.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Hmm maybe. The *accelerometer* detects tilt, but does it detect shift? Two different things.



devils in the detail.


----------



## paolo (Dec 10, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> TBH honest for the average consumer in UK its still leaps ahead for most UK consumers. A smart phone for people who may not have bought one before as it was to geeky.



That's a good summary.

Lots of friends and colleagues have one, and none of them had a 'smartphone' before.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 10, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Hmm maybe. The accelerometer detects tilt, but does it detect shift? Two different things.


Yeah, but hang a weight on a string and see what happens to it when accelerating... Not so simple.

Someone use a 'spirit level' app on a train please.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 10, 2008)

If I could get reception on O2 I would be very tempted myself. Had a play with a HTC Touch HD (which I can get) and it was very impressive bit of hardware, but lacked the "wow" factor that the iphone gave me after playing with it in a store for 20 mins.

I found myself constantly "pinching" to zoom in.


----------



## editor (Dec 11, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> If I could get reception on O2 I would be very tempted myself. Had a play with a HTC Touch HD (which I can get) and it was very impressive bit of hardware, but lacked the "wow" factor that the iphone gave me after playing with it in a store for 20 mins.
> 
> I found myself constantly "pinching" to zoom in.


Looks probable that Android might be made to run on a HTC HD phone. And that, for me, would be a true iPhone KrU5Ha!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 11, 2008)

For sure, I'd love to see that, its a lovely screen. However unless they could back it up with the same kind of advertising that apple did to capture a new market I'm not sure of it beating the iphone outside the geek world. Not that would bother me at all, provided they sell enough to keep making them. Now if they could build a slide out hardware keyboard into that would be cool.

BTW what's with the "L33T" speak recently?


----------



## paolo (Dec 11, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, but hang a weight on a string and see what happens to it when accelerating... Not so simple.
> 
> Someone use a 'spirit level' app on a train please.



I just tried a very none scientific test, with Super Monkey Ball. Couldn't get any "shake" response. Gah. There must be a dev around here that knows.


----------



## editor (Dec 11, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> For sure, I'd love to see that, its a lovely screen. However unless they could back it up with the same kind of advertising that apple did to capture a new I new market I'm not sure of it beating the iphone outside the geek world.


Like you, I don't really care about the sales figures - I just want a great handset that offers the great ease of use of the iPhone but doesn't come with all Apple's nasty power-crazed restrictions.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 11, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> ... capture a new market I'm not sure of it beating the iphone outside the geek world.



Doesn't need to, by the looks of things its getting some serious backing now with the addition of those 14 new partners.

If the product stands the test of time and is good, there will always be this trickle down effect from the geeks to their not so geeky friends who ask for advice and they tell their mates 'hey my geeky mate told me to get this and its great' so on and so forth.

Word of mouth and the internet are powerful combinations these days.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 11, 2008)

Global_Stoner said:


> For sure, I'd love to see that, its a lovely screen. However unless they could back it up with the same kind of advertising that apple did to capture a new market I'm not sure of it beating the iphone outside the geek world. Not that would bother me at all, provided they sell enough to keep making them. Now if they could build a slide out hardware keyboard into that would be cool.
> 
> BTW what's with the "L33T" speak recently?



This is just it. Bar the multi-touch screen, the HTC is superior to the iPhone is nearly every way, but it will never have the kudos associated with iPhone amongst the general public.

Interestingly, in a few road tests, the Touch HD is winning the best internet award. The iPhone wins the best interface award though, rightly.

After having had a Touch HD for a few weeks now, I'd give it a solid 9/10. It is still Windows Mobile, and whilst it's well hidden it's still in evidence.

A decent Android rom for it could bump it to a 10/10. The screen is jaw-dropping, sound quality superb, and the touch functions are very, very good for resistive tech.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 11, 2008)

Sorry but that interface is miles behind the iPhone.  The touch HD is for feature geeks.

Superiority is very subjective in this instance.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 11, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Sorry but that interface is miles behind the iPhone.  The touch HD is for feature geeks.
> 
> Superiority is very subjective in this instance.


Indeed. The opinion of us gadget addicts is not the most important one that counts when apple consider their iphone plans, I'd imagine.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 11, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Indeed. The opinion of us gadget addicts is not the most important one that counts when apple consider their iphone plans, I'd imagine.



Indeed.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 11, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Sorry but that interface is miles behind the iPhone.  The touch HD is for feature geeks.
> 
> Superiority is very subjective in this instance.



You'll note that I said the iPhone rightly deserved the interface award and that I marked it down for still being WM despite it being well hidden


----------



## paolo (Dec 13, 2008)

I've just discovered something brilliant (for me at least)...

...although you can't download podcasts over 10mb, over 3G, you can still stream them. On a long journey, fancy watching a video? Just dig around in iTunes and click on the name, rather than the button. Half hour programme, huge video file? No problem.

Fab. I can see my bus journey to work now being a battery draining experience.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 13, 2008)

That's an odd way of doing things, why limit the d/l amount if you can still watch more than that via streaming?!


----------



## Sunray (Dec 13, 2008)

So you can, you press the pod cast name rather than the big download button.  I wonder if the operators know that....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 13, 2008)

Sunray said:


> So you can, you press the pod cast name rather than the big download button.  I wonder if the operators know that....



Well I'm sure once Endgaget finds out it'll be all over...


----------



## paolo (Dec 13, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's an odd way of doing things, why limit the d/l amount if you can still watch more than that via streaming?!



The bandwidth and potential usage dynamics are quite different. Downloads are "max rate", and can be stacked up.

Still, I'm not complaining. Videotastic.


----------



## editor (Dec 14, 2008)

Microsoft Live Labs have just released its first iPhone application, Seadragon Mobile 

The program is a demo of the Seadragon photo technology - and was released on the iPhone first because most WM phones don't have the necessary accelerated graphics built in!

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2008/12/14/microsoft-releases-first-iphone-app-seadragon-mobile/


----------



## paolo (Dec 15, 2008)

Just downloaded and had a play. Although it looks like a solution trying to find a problem, I do like the rendering style as you zoom. Very swish, more Apple-like than Apple. The Maps app should render like that - silky smooth.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 15, 2008)

I never realised the iPhone had accelerated graphics.

The visible light map of the globe shows how light polluted the UK is an how humans effect the globe now...

 Ooo very cool with the picture wall.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 17, 2008)

O2 have a new free Xmas application.  

Somebody got paid to create that!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 17, 2008)

Sunray said:


> O2 have a new free Xmas application.
> 
> Somebody got paid to create that!



I've got a snow globe (that works when you shake the phone) and a customisable xmas tree on my G1


----------



## Sunray (Dec 17, 2008)

Exactly that (but of the O2 Arena ), some xmas bells that don't react properly when you shake them and something else that is bad including woeful music.  

I just downloaded the Star Wars sound board, 59p but worth every penny. Fantastic...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 17, 2008)

Sunray said:


> 59p



Everything on the Android Market is free so far


----------



## Sunray (Dec 18, 2008)

Its Star wars sound clips so there would be rights issues.

There are well over ten thousand applications on the App store now, I could be here forever going on about this app and that app. Lots are free lots are 59 or 99p, some are loads of money.

I think all the Android apps are free as there is no billing model in place for the market place at the moment.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> There are well over ten thousand applications on the App store now



How easy is it to find what you want/keep track of new stuff?

The rate that apps are being added to the Market is pretty impressive, but it does make keeping tracks of them all quite tricky.  There's a great search facility (it is google after all), and stuff is divided into categories, but that relies on you knowing what you're looking for.

I tend to check it every day now, just to make sure I've not missed anything cool


----------



## Sunray (Dec 18, 2008)

Its iTunes, so its the same categorised instant searching, 'Whats Hot', 'Top Ten' etc as you'd get for music.  Load it up and take a look you don't need an iPhone. 

They have started make it less unwieldy than it was for the phone.   I stopped looking any more, too much stuff to browse through now.  Starting to rely on review sites to sort through them for me.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Its iTunes... Load it up



I'd rather fellate a dead dog than install iTunes on my machine 

I'll take you word for it


----------



## Sunray (Dec 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd rather fellate a dead dog than install iTunes on my machine
> 
> I'll take you word for it



Have you ever used it?  If not then I suggest having a look, there is a lot of unjustified negative opinion on iTunes, probably stemming from when it was 1st released as that was shit. 

They seem to have fixed all the serious issues I had with it and after grudginly using it for my phone I've warmed to it.

The  its worth pointing it at your music library for the >instant< searching alone, it doesn't copy any more it just creates a database. All the podcasts are free and you can subscribe to them via iTunes and copy them onto your phone. It'll even try to find album covers for your tunes.


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2008)

You lucky iPhone and Touch owners can now play Sim City on your devices and it looks great.

http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2008/12/simcity-for-iph.html

I tell you much more because the link insists I install fucking iTunes cack. Oh, and there's no trial version, as usual so it's a ten buck gamble. Worth it, I'd say though.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Have you ever used it?  If not then I suggest having a look, there is a lot of unjustified negative opinion on iTunes, probably stemming from when it was 1st released as that was shit.
> 
> They seem to have fixed all the serious issues I had with it and after grudginly using it for my phone I've warmed to it.
> 
> The  its worth pointing it at your music library for the >instant< searching alone, it doesn't copy any more it just creates a database. All the podcasts are free and you can subscribe to them via iTunes and copy them onto your phone. It'll even try to find album covers for your tunes.



I've used it loads, and aqua has it for her iPod.

I can't fucking stand it.  I don't need to search my music, I've got over 100gig's worth, and because I've got a sensible directory structure I can tell you where every single track I have is.  Why do I need to see a jpeg of an album cover?  I want to hear music, not look at it.

To be fair this isn't really specific to iTunes, I can't stand any of those "media libray" programs, for me at least they're utterly pointless as I organise my files properly myself.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 18, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've used it loads, and aqua has it for her iPod.
> 
> I can't fucking stand it.  I don't need to search my music, I've got over 100gig's worth, and because I've got a sensible directory structure I can tell you where every single track I have is.  Why do I need to see a jpeg of an album cover?  I want to hear music, not look at it.
> 
> To be fair this isn't really specific to iTunes, I can't stand any of those "media libray" programs, for me at least they're utterly pointless as I organise my files properly myself.



So do I, but its way quicker in iTunes to type Pend to get up all the Pendulum tracks.  4 key presses and a click and music is playing.

You have to get away from the old and consider the new Bees.  Your such a creature of habit.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> So do I, but its way quicker in iTunes to type Pend to get up all the Pendulum tracks.  4 key presses and a click and music is playing.



Any album I own is no more than 4 (double)clicks away, no keyboard required


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 18, 2008)

Sunray said:


> You have to get away from the old and consider the new Bees.  Your such a creature of habit.



I got a G1, what more do you want?


----------



## Crispy (Dec 18, 2008)

Innit 

Smart playlists are great too. I have a 'freshen me up' one that plays music I haven't listened to in the last 3 months and that I haven't given a 1-star rating to. Plenty of others too. Oh and that song called "fish in my pants" by oh, what's his face, I can't remmeber, search for fish and there it is.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 18, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Innit
> 
> Smart playlists are great too. I have a 'freshen me up' one that plays music I haven't listened to in the last 3 months and that I haven't given a 1-star rating to. Plenty of others too. Oh and that song called "fish in my pants" by oh, what's his face, I can't remmeber, search for fish and there it is.



I hate random playlists


----------



## Gromit (Dec 18, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Innit
> 
> Smart playlists are great too. I have a 'freshen me up' one that plays music I haven't listened to in the last 3 months and that I haven't given a 1-star rating to. Plenty of others too. Oh and that song called "fish in my pants" by oh, what's his face, I can't remmeber, search for fish and there it is.



Nice idea. I may set up something similar. 

I'm terrible and mainly play my favourites smart playlist. All songs I've rated with 5 stars.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 18, 2008)

SimCity is over 10mb in size and so has to be dl'd by wifi or direct Internet connection. Denied!
Untill tonight that is.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 18, 2008)

editor said:


> You lucky iPhone and Touch owners can now play Sim City on your devices and it looks great.
> 
> http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palmaddicts/2008/12/simcity-for-iph.html
> 
> I tell you much more because the link insists I install fucking iTunes cack. Oh, and there's no trial version, as usual so it's a ten buck gamble. Worth it, I'd say though.



iTunes isn't that bad!

It sound like it crashes like a bad rally driver.   I'll wait I think.  6 quid is reasonable.


----------



## paolo (Dec 18, 2008)

Yep, I'm going to wait too, same reason.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 18, 2008)

Marius said:


> SimCity is over 10mb in size and so has to be dl'd by wifi or direct Internet connection. Denied!
> Untill tonight that is.



Is it on the UK iTunes store? Tried looking last night and it said it's not available for this country...


----------



## Gromit (Dec 18, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is it on the UK iTunes store? Tried looking last night and it said it's not available for this country...



I selected aps store on phone. Did search for Sim. It was about the tenth option down.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 18, 2008)

Ah you want International version. Released by EA Nederlands.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 18, 2008)

Marius said:


> Ah you want International version. Released by EA Nederlands.



I see...how have you found it (as in play wise)?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 18, 2008)

It's not tonight yet. DL'ing then.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 19, 2008)

Sort of a crappy Doom II game now on the iPhone.

Called Cube, works but needs work as the frame rate is too low and the control scheme gets in the way.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 19, 2008)

I downloaded SimCity the first time I heard about it - I love me some SimCity. But it really _does_ crash all the time, I can't run it for more than about thirty seconds at most. I expect an updated version toot sweet.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I downloaded SimCity the first time I heard about it - I love me some SimCity. But it really _does_ crash all the time, I can't run it for more than about thirty seconds at most. I expect an updated version toot sweet.


Annoyingly, there was a really stable version that ran on my Sony Palm Clie. The graphics were rather basic, but it had most of the playability of the big version. Sadly, it won't work with newer Palms.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 19, 2008)

Mine has only crashed once. When i was doing something in settings. Otherwise it runs fine.

Its missing the ability to rotate the view though i feel. I plonked the Empire State Building down on my map and then promptly couldn't see or access half my city which was hidden behind it.

Also I'd like to be able to see the radius of my police stations / schools etc. Which you could do on the pc. Instead it only shows you the level of crime etc.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2008)

Do you have to buy the thing before you can try it out? And is it easy to get get a refund if it's cack?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 19, 2008)

Well iTunes haven't come up with a 1 week trial mechanism for aps yet and so the only way games can let people try for free are their Lite versions. Usually restricts the game to 1-3 levels or something.

There is no Lite version of SimCity tm. Probably cause its a well known game.

No idea about refunds but i guess they ain't possible. You just have to wait for bug fixes if its cack cause of bugging.

At the end of the day the game is only £6 so its not like when you first bought SimCity on PC and it was like £30.


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2008)

Marius said:


> At the end of the day the game is only £6 so its not like when you first bought SimCity on PC and it was like £30.


That's pretty poor. If you pay £6 for something you're not even allowed to try out first, you should  be able to get an instant refund if it turns out to be a bit of pokey tat that keeps crashing, regardless of the amount of money involved. 

For £6, I'd expect a fucking good game on my mobile, to be honest.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 19, 2008)

Yep, no trial versions.  Thats a big complaint by just about everyone with regards to the App store.  

Jail breaking and then just ripping it off is the only way.

May well get fixed sometime in the future.  

Nothing stopping them creating a lite version that has limited plays or something.  Perhaps they knew it was shit....


----------



## Gromit (Dec 19, 2008)

editor said:


> That's pretty poor. If you pay £6 for something you're not even allowed to try out first, you should be able to get an instant refund if it turns out to be a bit of pokey tat that keeps crashing, regardless of the amount of money involved.


 

Or just wait for those with more money than sense to buy it and review it first. Wait for good reports and all the bugs to be worked out and then buy it.

If you go to Game and say "Excuse me I just bought Fallout 3 for the PC and I've decided I don't like it, can i have a full refund?" they will tell you to get lost.

You'll only get a refund for an unopened one that was bought in error or a faulty one that doesn't work. Not for one you've been playing and didn't like.

So I can't see why the aps store should grant greater rights than you would get in any store when purchasing software.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 19, 2008)

Quite a few companies do do lite versions - it's EA being EA I suspect.

I got it working by reinstalling, I suspect my issue was that I loaded an example town and it didn't like it, but it should have liked it. Since then I've had two crashes in about half an hour. If you try to do things while it's loading, it seems that it gets confused, which is poor.

It seems quite good when it works mind you. The building interface is good for a slightly clumsy touchscreen, where you get to confirm things that you build rather than having to bulldoze the excess if you create a four-square zone block rather than a three-square one.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 19, 2008)

Apparently, a reset does wonders for it. I think it wants more ram and cache than is reasonable.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 19, 2008)

uh, I should do some work really


----------



## Gromit (Dec 19, 2008)

Wish they'd skipped the whole waterworks marlarky tbh. I never liked that bit on the PC. Less so on a phone.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 19, 2008)

Just someone tell me when they've got Civ2 on there.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 19, 2008)

Somebody might be able to whack Freeciv onto it.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 19, 2008)

For jailbrake only though, I'd expect. Can't imagine the GPL is compatible with apple's developer requirements


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2008)

Marius said:


> Or just wait for those with more money than sense to buy it and review it first. Wait for good reports and all the bugs to be worked out and then buy it.
> 
> If you go to Game and say "Excuse me I just bought Fallout 3 for the PC and I've decided I don't like it, can i have a full refund?" they will tell you to get lost.


However, if you say: "Excuse me, I just bought this program and it's so buggy and poorly written that it keeps crashing my machine" you'll often find that you're entitled to a refund, particularly if the web is full of reports of people experiencing the same problem.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2008)

editor said:


> However, if you say: "Excuse me, I just bought this program and it's so buggy and poorly written that it keeps crashing my machine" you'll often find that you're entitled to a refund, particularly if the web is full of reports of people experiencing the same problem.



Heh you'd probably be told to wait for the patch. PC gamers are used to buggy software....


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 19, 2008)

Crispy said:


> For jailbrake only though, I'd expect. Can't imagine the GPL is compatible with apple's developer requirements



I think iPhone apps could be GPL; you don't have to include basic OS code linked into your GPL source i.e. the iPhone SDK, so all that whoever released it would have to do is make sure their source was available or included and that anyone with the SDK could compile their own.

There's some discussion of it here - http://diveintomark.org/archives/2008/03/07/iphone-gpl


----------



## Gromit (Dec 19, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh you'd probably be told to wait for the patch. PC gamers are used to buggy software....


 
This. ^

In once instance i remember being told to buy a PC magazine. 
There will be a patch in a magazine that has a free disc on the front.

(before Broadband was widespread)


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh you'd probably be told to wait for the patch. PC gamers are used to buggy software....


Legally, he's entitled to his money back.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 19, 2008)

editor said:


> Legally, he's entitled to his money back.


 
I'm guessing that legally you could do that with iTunes too if you wrote a letter etc. etc.

But considering how the platform is designed to give you updates to fix problems as you go along and how noone ever ever releases fully robust software anymore (not like the good old days where releases were held back until they were well and truly ready and tested) you can kinda see how its not really something they want to make easy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2008)

editor said:


> Legally, he's entitled to his money back.



Realistically, she or he wouldn't bother but would go to the makers site expecting a patch. I've been a gamer for over 25 years and not once have I or any of my friends taken a PC game back because we know how it is...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 19, 2008)

Marius said:


> I'm guessing that legally you could do that with iTunes too if you wrote a letter etc. etc.
> 
> But considering how the platform is designed to give you updates to fix problems as you go along and how noone ever ever releases fully robust software anymore * (not like the good old days where releases were held back until they were well and truly ready and tested) * you can kinda see how its not really something they want to make easy.



What days were those?


----------



## editor (Dec 19, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Realistically, she or he wouldn't bother but would go to the makers site expecting a patch. I've been a gamer for over 25 years and not once have I or any of my friends taken a PC game back because we know how it is...


You've bought some software that wouldn't work as advertised and just accepted it in the hope that an update might come?

Fuck that. I've had several refunds over the years when programs haven't worked as advertised. Even the people at Note Studio (Palm) offered me a full refund when it went wrong -  and I've been using it for two years!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 19, 2008)

Small dev companies are usually good about that sort of thing, if they're any good, IME. They'll try to solve your problem but if they can't they'll give you your money back. Giant corporate bastards like EA though....

It's something I was thinking about recently when I couldn't get Fallout 3 working. I'd paid twenty quid or whatever it was for it on Steam - what if it had just kept crashing all the time? Legally software is considered a "service" I believe and isn't covered by sale of goods legislation, but there would still be certain rights involved.


----------



## Kanda (Dec 19, 2008)

Have had no problems with it here.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 19, 2008)

editor said:


> You've bought some software that wouldn't work as advertised and just accepted it in the hope that an update might come?
> 
> Fuck that. I've had several refunds over the years when programs haven't worked as advertised. Even the people at Note Studio (Palm) offered me a full refund when it went wrong -  and I've been using it for two years!



Please, don't start with your usual moving the goal posts debating tactics, we're talking about games not general software. And yes plenty of times games have come that haven't worked (although the term as advertised is a non starter given the different graphical powers of various PC set ups) quite as advertised and yes I and others and just gone meh wait for the patch. It just happens, Sim City on the touch/iPhone will be patched and will run fine. Mark my words.


----------



## paolo (Dec 20, 2008)

Having found the Apple ear phones just not doing it for me, I thought I'd take the plunge on some in-ear jobbies.

The new Apple ones seemed good on paper, with dual drivers, remote with lots of functions. I they'd have been in stock at Regent Street a week ago, I'd have bought them without question. Glad I couldn't though. Turns out the volume control doesn't work with the iPhone, and user reviews have said they are bass-light (or even bass-non existent).

Instead I've just picked up some Sennheiser MM50s. Reviews have criticised them in the other direction - bass heavy - but that suits me fine. Waaay louder and punchier than the stock head phones (not difficult, arguably). I've just tried some Burial, and it's like hearing it as new - if that's not sounding too clichéd.

So, anyone thinking of getting the new Apple ones, you might want to do some research.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2008)

What do people make of these iPhone HD rumours?


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What do people make of these iPhone HD rumours?


Well, if the bigger screens are already out there, why not? They're going to need something to entice users to upgrade.


----------



## Kanda (Dec 20, 2008)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What do people make of these iPhone HD rumours?


 
What rumours?

What does iPhone HD mean?

Screen is fine for me, amazing picture most of the time. I wouldn't upgrade just for higher res (yup, I won't!! Honest )


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2008)

Kanda said:


> What rumours?
> 
> What does iPhone HD mean?)


It means high definition screen. The HTC Touch's screen has over twice the number of pixels as the iPhone's and it looks fantastic. 

Oh, and here's the Top Ten banned iPhone apps. Weird that they let some utter crap ones through, but ban other crap ones.

10. Flash
9. Zune Skins for iPhone
8. Leisure Suit Larry in the Land of the iLounge Lizards
7. Backlit LCD Monitor Buyers Guide
6. ThankGodCopyPaste!
5. iBong
4. Chess (Free Version)
3. AT&T iPhone Contract for Dummies
2. Battery Monitor Pro
1. Steve Jobs Health Timer

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=2669


----------



## paolo (Dec 21, 2008)

Was going to comment on the rumour. Might hide for a bit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 21, 2008)

Nah have your say man!


----------



## asbestos (Dec 22, 2008)

paolo999 said:


> Was going to comment on the rumour. Might hide for a bit.



The Editor has an iPhone in his Christmas stocking?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 22, 2008)

This does look very cool indeed and a decent price at 5.99.


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Sorry, but that looks like a Fisher Price game to me!


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2008)

Maybe they'll do a grownup version with a tortured-soul lead character, on a quest to avenge his father's death at the hand of his one true love who disappeared in mysterious circumstances in a fire at the mansion, by jumping on platforms and collecting things.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 22, 2008)

Been playing SimCity.

Did 2.5 hours straight on Sunday Morning. That chomped 80% of my battery. Its a power hungry game. Be warned. Not one to play on a long train journey where there is no charger socket etc.


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Maybe they'll do a grownup version with a tortured-soul lead character, on a quest to avenge his father's death at the hand of his one true love who disappeared in mysterious circumstances in a fire at the mansion, by jumping on platforms and collecting things.


Hey, if you're wowed by graphics that look like they were drawn by a not-particularly-talented child, that's good enough for me.

Enjoy!





Marius said:


> Been playing SimCity.
> 
> Did 2.5 hours straight on Sunday Morning. That chomped 80% of my battery. Its a power hungry game. Be warned. Not one to play on a long train journey where there is no charger socket etc.


That's where the lack of a user replaceable battery can really kick in. Mind you, the game does look great on the iPhone. It won't even run on my Palm any more, and even then it was pretty basic looking stuff


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2008)

Luckliy for me, I don't dismiss games based on their appearance, preferring to let the gameplay speak for itself. This way, I don't miss out a good game due to a blinkered view of how a videogame should look.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Hey, if you're wowed by graphics that look like they were drawn by a not-particularly-talented child, that's good enough for me.
> 
> Enjoy!That's where the lack of a user replaceable battery can really kick in. Mind you, the game does look great on the iPhone. It won't even run on my Palm any more, and even then it was pretty basic looking stuff


 
I wouldn't have done two and a half hours if it was rubbish. 

Yeah lack of a replacement battery sucks. We all know that. No one is going to dispute you there. We've all agreed that time and time again.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 22, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Luckliy for me, I don't dismiss games based on their appearance, preferring to let the gameplay speak for itself. This way, I don't miss out a good game due to a blinkered view of how a videogame should look.


 
I do sometime wish the games industry understood this:

If the gameplay is excelent people will play it even if it doesn't look good.
If the gameplay is shit people won't play it no matter how good it looks.
Place the majority of your importance on developing gameplay.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Hey, if you're wowed by graphics that look like they were drawn by a not-particularly-talented child, that's good enough for me.
> 
> Enjoy!*That's where the lack of a user replaceable battery can really kick in.* Mind you, the game does look great on the iPhone. It won't even run on my Palm any more, and even then it was pretty basic looking stuff



Thats rubbish.

Just buy a portable battery pack.  The only time the replaceable battery issue kicks in is when the one I have starts to die.  I can get some serious play time with my phone plugged into my external battery.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 22, 2008)

Looks like the iPhone is a financial headache for mobile operators....

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/132/1050132/iphone-is-the-paris-hilton-of-cellular


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Thats rubbish.
> 
> Just buy a portable battery pack.  The only time the replaceable battery issue kicks in is when the one I have starts to die.  I can get some serious play time with my phone plugged into my external battery.


Oh come on:  portable battery packs are OK for extended breaks away (I've got two of them by Proporta), but they're considerably more bulky than replacement batteries and not the kind of thing you can pop in your pocket.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> This does look very cool indeed and a decent price at 5.99.




Looks very much like Loco Roco - not that that's at all a bad thing.

If you like the look of that take a look at Dizzy Bee; there's a demo version and the full price one isn't very expensive. Playing it does make you look like a tit though, tilting the phone all over the shop and swearing.


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Crispy said:


> Luckliy for me, I don't dismiss games based on their appearance, preferring to let the gameplay speak for itself. This way, I don't miss out a good game due to a blinkered view of how a videogame should look.


Sorry. I didn't realise that it was such bad form to offer any criticism of a game's graphics (I haven't actually criticised the game's gameplay by the way, just the graphics.) 

For such a lavish, eye-candy laden platform as the iPhone, I found them rather disappointing.


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Looks like the iPhone is a financial headache for mobile operators....
> 
> http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/132/1050132/iphone-is-the-paris-hilton-of-cellular


All good news for Android's future, I would have thought.



> The best bit, the INQ thinks, is that Strand says it's all journalists' fault. The Ithingey has apparently received too much press attention, "probably due to an uncritical press that have allowed themselves to be seduced by Apple's unique PR machine."


LOL.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2008)

My remark wasn't aimed specifically at you, but at people in general who use graphics as a measuring stick for judging a game.


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2008)

editor said:


> All good news for Android's future, I would have thought.



I would have thought that the inflated internet use would be similar on both platforms. Although android wins due to the abscence of profit-sharing terms with the manufacturer.


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Crispy said:


> I would have thought that the inflated internet use would be similar on both platforms. Although android wins due to the abscence of profit-sharing terms with the manufacturer.


The HUGE difference is the cut of revenues that Apple grabs off the mobile operators. No other phone manufacturer demands this.





> O2 wins Apple iPhone deal - at a hefty price
> 
> The UK's largest mobile operator came from behind at the last minute to seal an agreement with Steve Jobs, Apple's chief executive, to market the iPhone in the UK, but one other operator described the deal as "madly money-losing".
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Crispy said:


> My remark wasn't aimed specifically at you, but at people in general who use graphics as a measuring stick for judging a game.


Hey, I've got a Wii not a Playstation and I think the best computer games ever made were for the Amiga, so I think it's fair to say that I'm not one to discount games based on less than stellar graphics.

The point was that for a device that sells itself on its sheer eye-candy gloss and super-slick operation, the game looked very disappointing.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Oh come on:  portable battery packs are OK for extended breaks away (I've got two of them by Proporta), but they're considerably more bulky than replacement batteries and not the kind of thing you can pop in your pocket.



Mine is smaller than my iPhone and lighter too, so yes it slips into my pocket.

I'm with Crispy, complex graphics on small devices aren't the way to go really and game play is king. 

Look at Geometry Wars on the XBox for a great example of that.


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Mine is smaller than my iPhone and lighter too, so yes it slips into my pocket.


Yes. But it is still _considerably_ more bulky and bigger than a battery. Which one are you using? Does it have cables too?

I can't see how anyone can reasonably argue that it's not a good thing to have user replaceable batteries.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 22, 2008)

editor said:


> Yes. But it is still _considerably_ more bulky and bigger than a battery. Which one are you using? Does it have cables too?
> 
> I can't see how anyone can reasonably argue that it's not a good thing to have user replaceable batteries.



That's not what I am arguing, I'm saying that its not the issue you are making it out to be.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2008)

Crispy said:


> My remark wasn't aimed specifically at you, but at people in general who use graphics as a measuring stick for judging a game.



Yep, never a wise thing to do (as Tetris shows).


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> That's not what I am arguing, I'm saying that its not the issue you are making it out to be.


It's a factor for me when I'm buying a phone. What charger are you using now?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 22, 2008)

editor said:


> It's a factor for me when I'm buying a phone. What charger are you using now?



http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/index.cfm?reviewid=2134


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2008)

Sunray said:


> http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/reviews/index.cfm?reviewid=2134


So it costs about five times more than a regular battery, it's heavier and a lot bulkier (3.9” by 2.5” by 0.55” ) and you have to cart around a USB lead as well. 

Overall, it's not exactly full of win compared to a regular battery swap, is it?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 22, 2008)

I only carry the cable and the pack when I need it.  If that runs out of power then I'm out.  

I have no choice if I want to own an iPhone and there is no better phone out there by miles for me so I am not bothered.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 22, 2008)

By the way, I ended up buying Rolando given that I was in the mood to play games and it had about 150 reviews with an average of five stars, and it's _boss_.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 22, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I ended up buying Rolando... it's _boss_.



I honestly don't know if by that you mean it's good or bad


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 22, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I honestly don't know if by that you mean it's good or bad



It's _skill_.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 22, 2008)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's _skill_.



Ah, now you're talking


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 23, 2008)

I can further confirm that
(a) it has the coolest level select thing ever - a big pop-up book opens, and you zoom around the different levels to the right one;
(b) it has in-game music by Mr Scruff, and plants in the level bop back and forwards in time to it;
(c) while mostly the controls are good, it's easy to accidentally deselect all your rolandos with just a feather touch somewhere.


----------



## editor (Dec 24, 2008)

More ridiculous shenanigans from the censoring power freaks at Apple:



> *E-book barred from App Store due to obscene content*
> 
> Gee, willickers. More App Store madness. In case you needed even more evidence that the whole approval process in Cupertino was in complete disarray, David Carnoy's "contemporary medical thriller" has been rejected from Apple's App Store twice now. The first time it was returned to sender due to a few bugs in the coding; the second time, it was rejected due to the inclusion of "obscene content." Despite all of this, certain apps like iFart and Pull My Finger are allowed to remain, though it stands to reason that those programs are just as "obscene" as a few dirty words and sexual innuendos. Alexandru Brie, a developer and one of the first publishers of e-books to the App Store, feels that "each of Apple's reviewers can interpret the obscene, pornographic or defamatory content clause in a different way." Clearly, he's right


http://www.engadget.com/2008/12/24/e-book-barred-from-app-store-due-to-obscene-content/

User comments:


> Every time I see an article like this, I get a glimmer of hope that people might stop buying Apple products on principle. But the sales numbers just don't bear out. I guess the average consumer doesn't mind DRM, whimsical content moderation and substandard hardware quality as long as the device looks "sexy"....
> 
> ....Is it me or Apple getting more and more obnoxious with their antics? They went from rebel cool to grandpa strict over the past years it seems.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 24, 2008)

They're a company like all others, this attitude they were once some 'rebel' corporation is bloody strange...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 24, 2008)

Its a bizarre decision but their weird attitude does not seem to be stopping stacks of applications hitting the store on a daily basis.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 24, 2008)

Been using the phone on the train and when moving Edge is very fast, much faster than 3g.  Best to switch off 3g if your moving fast.


----------



## AnIdiot (Dec 25, 2008)

So I got an iPhone for christmas and I quite like it! Is there anyway to download apps withou using iTunes? Thanks


----------



## paolo (Dec 25, 2008)

No.

What's up with iTunes, for you?


----------



## AnIdiot (Dec 25, 2008)

can't seem to be able to create an iTunes account using the iPhone and am at the inlaws so can't download any apps!

How are you btw? Still doing your urban exploration?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 25, 2008)

Its best to set it up on the computer you will be using with the phone most of the time because it syncs it with that computer and you can only sync with one at a time.

Nice prez btw.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 25, 2008)

I thought you download the apps direct to your phone?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 25, 2008)

You have to register the phone on the desktop iTunes when you 1st start.  You have to supply a credit/debit card to allow them to charge you.


----------



## AnIdiot (Dec 25, 2008)

Thanks! Am going to have to wait awhile as the old laptop has sadly died.

Kid eternity, you're right you have to download the apps to your phone but you need to have an iTunes account.


----------



## paolo (Dec 26, 2008)

asea said:


> How are you btw? Still doing your urban exploration?



Yep. Had a fun time underground in Paris again a month back. Always good down there.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 26, 2008)

Sunray said:


> Its best to set it up on the computer you will be using with the phone most of the time because it syncs it with that computer and you can only sync with one at a time.



You have to synch it to a single computer?

How archaic


----------



## DexterTCN (Dec 26, 2008)

please update your itouch software.

error [14]

dead


----------



## Crispy (Dec 26, 2008)

Posted from my new touch
Nothing else to say. Just feeling new-gadget smug


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 26, 2008)

s.o.b


----------



## Sunray (Dec 26, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> You have to synch it to a single computer?
> 
> How archaic



Mainly down to the music library.  You can sync with any iTunes, but it will wipe all your music and emails because it syncs with outlook and doesn't know what music you have selected so it can't do anything else.  I'm not sure I would want to sync my music library over the air.


----------



## paolo (Dec 26, 2008)

The iPhone nano rumour is refusing to die. Case maker xksn is now selling cases for 'it'.

Either it's a bizarre PR ruse, or... or there _will_ be a nano version, the timing here suggesting a MacWorld SF launch.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 26, 2008)

I wonder what market they will be trying to break into? 

Clearly they are on a roll right now with their image and mobile phones. Perhaps trying to take on the dumb phone makers with a really easy to use phone?  I have some real doubts on that front.


----------



## paolo (Dec 26, 2008)

Sunray said:


> I wonder what market they will be trying to break into?
> 
> Clearly they are on a roll right now with their image and mobile phones. Perhaps trying to take on the dumb phone makers with a really easy to use phone?  I have some real doubts on that front.



Me too. It's not like it will particularly cheap to make, like a 3210, and I'm not sure that form factor of the current product is a barrier to entry.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 26, 2008)

Well given that the iPod nano is the highest selling iPod it makes to do a cut down iPhone to tap that market...


----------



## editor (Dec 26, 2008)

If it looks anything like the mock-ups on the web, it's going to be a heap of fun trying to type on an even smaller virtual screen....if the thing even exists of course.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 26, 2008)

They'll probably sort landscape typing...


----------



## paolo (Dec 28, 2008)

Here's something that looks like it's got potential, if you have your calendar/contacts in google.

It's a sync service that uses the 'native' sync of the iPhone, by using Exchange protocols. So the phone thinks it's talking to an Exchange server, but the service then brokers that to your google stuff. As such (from what I can tell) it supports push too, if you enable that.

I've just tried it with Calendar and first impressions are good. Adding / changing stuff at either 'end' reflected immediately. No manual 'sync' process.

Before I try it with contacts, I'll be backing up the ones on the phone (it overwrites everything on the first sync), but am quite hopeful this will give me the seamless stuff that Android has.

www.nuevasync.com

Update... Well, I did the one-off boring job of adding all the important numbers in my phone to my google contacts. I then enabled the Contact sync... Genius. Totally seamless. Again, it only takes a few seconds for changes at either end to replicate.

Well chuffed with this. It was the one thing I was envious of in Android.

Another update: The contacts update seems sketchy. I've now got a dupe and another issue. Hmm. Not lost anything, but more testing needed.


----------



## editor (Dec 30, 2008)

The biggest selling app for the iPhone and the iPod Touch over the holidays saw 38,927 downloads on Christmas Day, making the developer a cool $30,000 in one day.

And what was this awesome app?

Why, it was the iFart Mobile - the one Apple tried to ban!

http://timesonline.typepad.com/technology/2008/12/sweet-smell-of.html


----------



## paolo (Dec 30, 2008)

More on nuevasync: I restarted the contacts sync, and - so far at least - it all seems to be working OK. Difficult to say yet whether having Push enabled affects battery life. The developer says that they are getting reports, but in their own tests they don't see a difference. That aside, I'm really liking this free service. I spent a little time tidying up my contacts this afternoon, using a PC. Then checked my phone - all perfect. Over-the-air push sync = win


----------



## Sunray (Dec 30, 2008)

I bought that Rolando and its a great little game.  Perfect for the odd train journey home.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 1, 2009)

More nano rumours: http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/31/iphone-nano-smaller-shuffle-and-cheaper-macbook-in-2009/ plus another case manufacturer has a section on their site for the iphone nano too.

I was holding off getting the 3G until the next round of updates, in the vain hope battery life might be better, etc. but if it's likely it'll only be a nano I might go ahead and get a 3G now. Or I might wait. Just in case. Maybe.


----------



## rocketman (Jan 1, 2009)

iPhone nano rumour's a definite. They've been circulating for months.
http://www.9to5mac.com/iphone_rumour_and_speculation


----------



## Structaural (Jan 5, 2009)

Cheers for that Rolando heads up FridgeMagnet - a game I actually play at last.

Anyone played Edge yet?



It's 4.99 so I'm not rushing in


----------



## Sunray (Jan 5, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> More nano rumours: http://www.macrumors.com/2008/12/31/iphone-nano-smaller-shuffle-and-cheaper-macbook-in-2009/ plus another case manufacturer has a section on their site for the iphone nano too.
> 
> I was holding off getting the 3G until the next round of updates, in the vain hope battery life might be better, etc. but if it's likely it'll only be a nano I might go ahead and get a 3G now. Or I might wait. Just in case. Maybe.



Battery life is much better than when they 1st released it.  If you don't really use it then it will got for 3 days, if you do use it to play games and browse the web then it will go down to 1 1/2 or so unless you really use it.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 5, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Battery life is much better than when they 1st released it.  If you don't really use it then it will got for 3 days, if you do use it to play games and browse the web then it will go down to 1 1/2 or so unless you really use it.



Ah, that's useful to know. Is that because of the firmware updates, or on the 3G model?

I'm thinking I may be the proud owner this time next week.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 6, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Ah, that's useful to know. Is that because of the firmware updates, or on the 3G model?
> 
> I'm thinking I may be the proud owner this time next week.



Yeah, it was barely 12hours when it was 1st released.  I think it was down to the 3g power levels, esp when the signal was weak.

I've played games on it for a bit and browsed the web and listen to music and never had it go less than a full day now.  Only expect less than that if you want to try to finish rolando or spend hours and hours browsing the web.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Yeah, it was barely 12hours when it was 1st released.  I think it was down to the 3g power levels, esp when the signal was weak.
> 
> I've played games on it for a bit and browsed the web and listen to music and never had it go less than a full day now.  Only expect less than that if you want to try to finish rolando or spend hours and hours browsing the web.



That's good to know, thanks 

I've had my current phone for just over 18 months now and I'm still getting a good 5 days or more out of it. Don't do much on it though, so realistically it might not be that different.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 6, 2009)

and don't keep your screen too bright...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 6, 2009)

Structaural said:


> and don't keep your screen too bright...



Ah, yeah, always a good tip. Gives me headaches anyway, bright screens.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 6, 2009)

Structaural said:


> and don't keep your screen too bright...



The iPhone has automatic screen brightness control, but you can switch it off.  It gets brighter in lighter conditions and lowers it in dark conditions.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 7, 2009)

Sunray said:


> The iPhone has automatic screen brightness control, but you can switch it off.  It gets brighter in lighter conditions and lowers it in dark conditions.



..or since the 2.2 update, it gets darker when it's dark and lighter when it's bright (at least on mine anyway).


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2009)

I heard it gets darker in the dark and brighter in the light.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 7, 2009)

I wake up in a dark room and the iphone is unreadable - pitch black it is, I have to turn auto-brightness off, once I've gone into a room with a light on and can see what I'm doing again. Reet annoying.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 7, 2009)

So, no iPhone updates. Should I just buy one now then?


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> So, no iPhone updates. Should I just buy one now then?


You may as well seeing as cut and paste remains a dream!

Thing is, you can wait around for upgrades forever, so if the phone offers what you fancy now, you should just go out and get it.

You can guarantee that it'll inevitably be upgraded straight after you've handed over your credit card, but what the hell - it's still a great phone.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 7, 2009)

editor said:


> You may as well seeing as cut and paste remains a dream!
> 
> Thing is, you can wait around for upgrades forever, so if the phone offers what you fancy now, you should just go out and get it.
> 
> You can guarantee that it'll inevitably be upgraded straight after you've handed over your credit card, but what the hell - it's still a great phone.



It's always the way. I held out until the macbook updates before buying one of those, and I hated the updated versions so hunted around for an old one (got a bit of money knocked off too, which was nice). Cut and paste might well be solved in a firmware update (sometime in 2010 ), and I can't actually remember ever using it on my current phone so it's not something I'll likely miss (until I start using more functions of the iPhone and start getting frustrated - but there hasn't been a phone I've had that hasn't made me angry when I can't do something I feel I should instinctively be able to do). The camera's still shit, but I really don't care about that. The camera used to be the most impt thing for me on a phone, but I rarely use it now. However saying that, the lack of MMS is something I'll miss, although I only really send the odd photo to my mum or Dill4 - so it's not essential. Again, I imagine it's something that will be updated via firmware god knows when.

Gah, I might as well. Perhaps.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2009)

Hardware-wise, there's not much more to do to the iphone. Better camera, better battery, more storage maybe? If the _hardware_ suits you right now, then go for it. There will always be new software.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 7, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Hardware-wise, there's not much more to do to the iphone. Better camera, better battery, more storage maybe? If the _hardware_ suits you right now, then go for it. There will always be new software.



Good point.

Yeah, I'm going to go for it. Now just to decide if I should go for 8GB or 16GB. I'm a bit cash-strapped at the moment, but I'd like to go for 16 if I can - I know I'll regret it if I have to start deleting things down the line because I can't fit what I want on. And when a 32GB one comes out I'll feel even more short-changed


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2009)

if I was about to fork out for an iPhone, the average camera and lack of video might be something that could tempt me to wait a little bit longer. If that's not an issue, there's tons of excellent software coming out so you won't get the feeling that you're left with an unsupported and quickly outdated phone (see: Palm Centro).

The other option, of course, is to look at other phones which may offer the extra capacity and gizmos you want (HTC HD, G1 etc).


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 7, 2009)

editor said:


> if I was about to fork out for an iPhone, the average camera and lack of video might be something that could tempt me to wait a little bit longer. If that's not an issue, there's tons of excellent software coming out so you won't get the feeling that you're left with an unsupported and quickly outdated phone (see: Palm Centro).
> 
> The other option, of course, is to look at other phones which may offer the extra capacity and gizmos you want (HTC HD, G1 etc).



I thought about a different phone, but I'm not incredibly techy minded (perfect customer for Apple, I think you or someone else described me as before ) and since I already use Macs I'd be happy to stay with their OS. It'll be my first 'smartphone', so I reckon it'll ease me in gently, with a mix of useful and fanboy features 

Video isn't an issue - I don't need it, and the camera, like I said, doesn't bother me either. Some of the camera apps look mildly entertaining (for about 5 minutes or so), so that's not too bad.

Let's face it, I don't need a smartphone, but I _want_ one. It's purely the consumer desire coming out in me, and half of me is disgusted with myself, the other half thinks wtf, who cares? So again, their target market


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2009)

I got a theory we'll see video recording and a camera bump once we get the HD iPhone. Something Apple like to do is 'the next big thing' they like to update and hype it up. Like with the touch it got games so they called it the funnest iPod they've ever made. 

I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see video recording until they can say something like 'shoot in HD, now everyone is a movie director' or some such (increased storage for the iPhone/touch to 64gb probably too). The camera will probably get a bump in their too, linking it to their new photo software update...


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if we don't see video recording until they can say something like 'shoot in HD, now everyone is a movie director' or some such (increased storage for the iPhone/touch to 64gb probably too). The camera will probably get a bump in their too, linking it to their new photo software update...


Even if they manage to get an iPhone to record at HD resolution, the tiny sensor size and form factor limitations will ensure it's never going to come remotely close to a decent movie camera, short of some huge technical innovation.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 7, 2009)

See, I couldn't give a shit about all that ^^ kind of stuff, so I reckon I might as well just take the plunge now.

You can't keep chasing technology or you'll go broke.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 7, 2009)

Paw, based on what you've posted, I think the iphone would be perfect for you, but do try and stretch to the 16GB. Piss-easy internet in your pocket will be much more useful and fun than you'd even given thought to before


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 7, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Paw, based on what you've posted, I think the iphone would be perfect for you, but do try and stretch to the 16GB.



I've just been looking at the tariffs. I overspend on my current contract at the moment, spending in total about £45/month. If I got the £35/month contract I'd be saving money and I'd likely never use up the allowance. However, the price for the 16GB is still steep on that contract. 

Yet, I'd be saving £180 over the 18 months on the £35/mo contract over the £45/mo one, which is more than I'd save on the iPhone on the higher tariff. But then if I do go over the allowance I'd end up likely paying more. Can you easily check on the phone what allowance you've got left? Do you need to navigate to the O2 online billing or is there a handy little app or something in-built to make it easier?

When O2 say 'unlimited data and wi-fi', does that mean I'll never pay for browsing the net or email etc? Whether I use wi-fi or whatever else?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 7, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> When O2 say 'unlimited data and wi-fi', does that mean I'll never pay for browsing the net or email etc? Whether I use wi-fi or whatever else?



Yup. Unless you take it abroad... *looks at my £197 phone bill for December!!!*


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 7, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Yup. Unless you take it abroad... *looks at my £197 phone bill for December!!!*



 Well, if you will go jetting off all over the place 

Well, that's good to know anyway. 

Going to have to hold out a bit longer because I still haven't got my iMac fixed and don't want to be synching to my macbook.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 7, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> I've just been looking at the tariffs. I overspend on my current contract at the moment, spending in total about £45/month. If I got the £35/month contract I'd be saving money and I'd likely never use up the allowance. However, the price for the 16GB is still steep on that contract.
> 
> Yet, I'd be saving £180 over the 18 months on the £35/mo contract over the £45/mo one, which is more than I'd save on the iPhone on the higher tariff. But then if I do go over the allowance I'd end up likely paying more. Can you easily check on the phone what allowance you've got left? Do you need to navigate to the O2 online billing or is there a handy little app or something in-built to make it easier?
> 
> When O2 say 'unlimited data and wi-fi', does that mean I'll never pay for browsing the net or email etc? Whether I use wi-fi or whatever else?



Just had a quick look and there are usage stats for current period and total time.  You can reset the current period with a button.  There is also the sent and received data, but no text sent option.  I'll moan to Apple about that.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 7, 2009)

Do you have to remember to do it when your billing period changes or does it do it automatically?


----------



## Private Storm (Jan 7, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Yup. Unless you take it abroad... *looks at my £197 phone bill for December!!!*



Data roaming can be turned off


----------



## Sunray (Jan 7, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Do you have to remember to do it when your billing period changes or does it do it automatically?



Just stick it in your calendar as a repeating alert.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 7, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Yup. Unless you take it abroad... *looks at my £197 phone bill for December!!!*



Oh shit, i just did two weeks in England, not looking forward to that bill.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 7, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Just had a quick look and there are usage stats for current period and total time.  You can reset the current period with a button.  There is also the sent and received data, but no text sent option.  I'll moan to Apple about that.



There's an app over here for keeping tabs on your usage, sms left, extra charges etc (belstatus). Not sure if there's an english version.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 7, 2009)

Private Storm said:


> Data roaming can be turned off



Yes I know. But I needed it on.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 7, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Just stick it in your calendar as a repeating alert.



So nothing a nokia 3330 couldn't do?


----------



## Sunray (Jan 7, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> So nothing a nokia 3330 couldn't do?



Was I saying it wasn't,


----------



## Sunray (Jan 8, 2009)

Some enterprising counterfeiter has produced a iPhone nano!


----------



## Sunray (Jan 8, 2009)

Hey Apple, see this

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/07/sony-unveils-walkman-nwz-x1000-oled-touchscreen-player/

Something like that for the next gen iPhone please.  That actually looks great.


----------



## paolo (Jan 8, 2009)

Hi res OLED would be lovely... but too expensive for this year, I'd guess.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 8, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Some enterprising counterfeiter has produced a iPhone nano!



Link?


----------



## Sunray (Jan 8, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Link?



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7816243.stm

Looks kinda cute!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 8, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Hey Apple, see this
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/07/sony-unveils-walkman-nwz-x1000-oled-touchscreen-player/
> 
> Something like that for the next gen iPhone please.  That actually looks great.



"that faux granite shell is a definite mark in the "please, yes" category"

please, no, it looks like arse


----------



## Crispy (Jan 8, 2009)

oh god that looks disgusting. nice screen though.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 8, 2009)

I like that faux granite look.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 8, 2009)

Maybe it looks better irl, but in the pics it looks fucking awful.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 8, 2009)

Its the OLED screen which requires no back light to function and has 180 degree viewing angle and is low power, that I want from that package.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 9, 2009)

So I got one. Ordered it over the phone last night, it arrived this morning. It's a bit scary, but quite exciting.

Is there an urban top 10+ apps thread somewhere? Or an easy way for me to find out what the must-have ones are? Like, isn't there one that lets you use the keyboard in landscape, in any app? Stuff like that - ease-of-use apps I guess.

And one of the first things I did when I fired it up for the first time (after updating firmware) was watch the sneezing panda. I feel the iphone is now officially christened 

They had reconditioned iphones free on the 35/mo contract btw. Which was nice


----------



## Crispy (Jan 9, 2009)

if you use itunes to play your music at home, then Remote is a must.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 9, 2009)

Not top ten exactly but there is this thread:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=272993&highlight=mobile

Covers all mobile aps though. Not just iPhone.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 9, 2009)

Marius said:


> Not top ten exactly but there is this thread:
> 
> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=272993&highlight=mobile
> 
> Covers all mobile aps though. Not just iPhone.



Brilliant, I'll look at that, thanks.

Crispy, I don't tend to use my normal apple remote much, so I'm not sure I'd use the iphone for it, but thanks anyway


----------



## Crispy (Jan 9, 2009)

That's cos the normal remote is shite, you can't choose music with it (unless you go into front row, which is pants)


----------



## Gromit (Jan 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I like that faux granite look.


 
Can you buy different trims?

If so then its a good idea as people like to customise their shit.

Every turned off iPhone looks like every other turned off iPhone. Apple call it branding. I call it a missed merchandising opportunity.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 9, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Brilliant, I'll look at that, thanks.
> 
> Crispy, I don't tend to use my normal apple remote much, so I'm not sure I'd use the iphone for it, but thanks anyway


 
iPhone Remote rocks. Really.

Just imagine using your iPod as you would normally use an iPod. Playlists and everything.
Except instead of the music coming from your headphones or iPhone speakers it comes from your computer speaker set up.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 9, 2009)

my top 10:
Shazam - always useful 
Rolando (reminds me of Grange Hill that name) - great game
MyRailLight (or Trein) - I used that a lot in the UK recently
Flick Fishing - great in the pub
Tetris - needs no introduction
Stanza - There maybe better apps - but I use this to read the Guardian for free
Remote -  mentioned
*ahem* Facebook - yeah I know
iPedia - great in the pub 
Jaadu - control your home/work mac with pinch zoom etc...

Touchtype is a good landscape keyboard


----------



## Gromit (Jan 9, 2009)

My favs

MyRail Lite
TubeStatus - Even though I don't live in London
Palringo - I use to MSN (Some people prefer Fring)
Wikipanion
Google Ap
Zynga Live Poker (I play same via Facebook)
Cookie Bonus Free Solitaire - by jujuplay
Remote (I bumped Lightsaber for this as I hardly battle Jedi anymore)
iFooty
SimCity

Honourable mention to the Free guidebooks Coolgorilla.com provides (Portugeese, German, Spanish, Italian, Greek). But only useful when in said country.

Wish they did a free dutch one too.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 9, 2009)

There is a much cheaper VNC client than Jaadu (whose name I forget). I'm running the Lite version which is missing some features, but it's pretty neat.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 9, 2009)

Crispy said:


> There is a much cheaper VNC client than Jaadu (whose name I forget). I'm running the Lite version which is missing some features, but it's pretty neat.



I've got that too (Mocha?), but Jaadu is just the nuts. It's quicker than Chicken on a real computer... but yeah well expensive (by iphone standards anyway).


----------



## Sunray (Jan 10, 2009)

Truephone is the best VOIP client, Fring doesn't do DTMF and thats been a bug for 18 months, so waste of time for me.   0800 numbers for free and good call quality.  They give you a free pound for calls.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2009)

An analyst reckons that Apple's vast pots of cash reserves and obscenely  fat profits could see them grabbing a massive 40% of the smartphone market in 2013:



> *Jobs has a mountain made of gold*
> 
> Generator reckons that with cash reserves exceeding $25 billion (£17bn), 33% gross margins and the iPhone just about to enter its fastest-growth phase, Apple has the resources, competencies and motivation to invest just when more established players in the mobile industry are cutting back on product development.
> 
> ...


They'd best buy their staff some heavy gloves to help them cope with all that high-fiving


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 14, 2009)

4 years is a long time though in the phone market.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> 4 years is a long time though in the phone market.


Indeed. I certainly wouldn't gamble that far ahead - especially seeing as how the outlook can dramatically change with unexpected products like the new Palm.

There's no denying that the iPhone has proved a monster hit and is going to keep on selling by the bucketload though - and it's still streets ahead of almost all of its rivals.


----------



## paolo (Jan 14, 2009)

editor said:


> An analyst reckons that Apple's vast pots of cash reserves and obscenely  fat profits could see them grabbing a massive 40% of the smartphone market in 2013:
> 
> 
> They'd best buy their staff some heavy gloves to help them cope with all that high-fiving



More whooping and cheering at the Palm Pre launch, than at the MacWorld keynote, apparently. I find it all quite embarrassing, but it's more an American cultural thing rather than something Apple invented.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 14, 2009)

I've started whooping and pumping my fist in meetings at work. 

It amuses me anyhow, even if get funny looks, but nobody has accused me of being unenthusiastic.


----------



## paolo (Jan 14, 2009)

editor said:


> Indeed. I certainly wouldn't gamble that far ahead - especially seeing as how the outlook can dramatically change with unexpected products like the new Palm.
> 
> There's no denying that the iPhone has proved a monster hit and is going to keep on selling by the bucketload though - and it's still streets ahead of almost all of its rivals.



And there's other stuff in the wings, like the next WinMo. But, as Apple loses product advantage, it gains by simply 'being' when others are not. i.e. sales momentum. I'm going to brain dump all of this soon - still absorbing the whole Pre thing.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> More whooping and cheering at the Palm Pre launch, than at the MacWorld keynote, apparently. I find it all quite embarrassing, but it's more an American cultural thing rather than something Apple invented.


Well that was down to the sheer disappointment of the MacWorld event, but Apple _are_ guilty of hyping up product launches to a ridiculous  level and getting their staff to do all that ludicrous 'whoop around the block and high five the customers' nonsense.

It's horrible and I hope it never becomes the norm over here:


> A line of black- clad Apple store employees went through the crowd clapping and cheering. ...Just after six, the store let people in, and Apple employees lined either side of the stairs, clapping and cheering.





> As the timer counted down, employees would periodically lead people in a chant of “Let’s go, iPhone!”
> 
> The doors to the Apple Store opened at 6 p.m., with employees giving line-waiters high-fives as they entered.
> http://www.macworld.com/article/58682/2007/06/iphone_crowds.html


*shudder


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> And there's other stuff in the wings, like the next WinMo. But, as Apple loses product advantage, it gains by simply 'being' when others are not. i.e. sales momentum. I'm going to brain dump all of this soon - still absorbing the whole Pre thing.


The iPhone is still a great, easy to use and hugely 'desirable' phone and, to the average consumer, barely any of its rivals can match its simplicity or generate the must-have 'coolness' that Apple are so good at creating around their products,


----------



## Structaural (Jan 14, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> More whooping and cheering at the Palm Pre launch, than at the MacWorld keynote, apparently. I find it all quite embarrassing, but it's more an American cultural thing rather than something Apple invented.



an american couple (aged around 35) asked us to take their photo on holiday in Mexico once. After we had taken said shot they clapped each other and whooped like 5 year olds...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 14, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> 4 years is a long time though in the phone market.



Especially given we're in a global recession. That money might be better spent on taking the edge off falling sales...


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2009)

Perhaps this sudden turnaround has something to do with Apple feeling the heat from Palm?
Either way it's all good for the consumer.


Apple suddenly approves a bunch of browsers for App Store; major policy shift in progress?
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/14/apple-suddenly-approves-a-bunch-of-browsers-for-app-store-major/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 14, 2009)

editor said:


> Perhaps this sudden turnaround has something to do with Apple feeling the heat from Palm?
> Either way it's all good for the consumer.
> 
> 
> ...



Hope so, that'd mean more of this type of thing. More choice the better.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 14, 2009)

Yep, time for Apple to goatse a bit  Give me a decent email client!


----------



## paolo (Jan 14, 2009)

editor said:


> Perhaps this sudden turnaround has something to do with Apple feeling the heat from Palm?
> Either way it's all good for the consumer.
> 
> 
> ...



It's not the story it seems to be.

You've always been able to embed WebKit browsing functionality into an App. There's quite a few that have done it.

All this does is recognise that you can carry on doing that, but without actually having any non-browsing functionality. It's clearing up an anomaly in the 'rules'.

So this doesn't (yet) mean that you can ship a genuinely new browser, just a different encapsulation of WebKit.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2009)

Here's an interesting article:

What Apple could learn from Palm's webOS
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/15/what-apple-could-learn-from-palms-webos/


----------



## Crispy (Jan 15, 2009)

Good article


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 15, 2009)

Very good article. Quite like the use of images from Planes, Trains & Automobiles too. John Candy RIP...


----------



## pk (Jan 16, 2009)

Dunno if anyone else has found this, but I think my fleshy ear is being mistaken for a pudgy finger whilst I'm on the iphone, and cutting my calls off.

Plus the accidental calling people at 3am when pissed and trying to fiddle with the iPod pisses me off, but the anger is usually directed at my own drunken fuckwittery TBH.

Plus it's a slippery fucker, trying to send an email whilst taking a piss could end up in a very unstylish rendezvous with shiny smartphone and Royal Doulton.

And it's too fucking smart for it's own good.

Does anyone know how to kill the predictive text?

Permanently?

I write this on my iPhone but had to delete many words in doing so, why would I want to be saying "ducker" ????


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2009)

pk said:


> Does anyone know how to kill the predictive text?



Da daa!


----------



## pk (Jan 16, 2009)

oh you fuckin beauty, nice one, well done, now I can swear with impunity on this website, seriously cheers, it was driving me batshit...


----------



## pk (Jan 16, 2009)

I'm not sure about these things after all...

Instead of a phone I have a thing I can't stop fiddling with, as though I had somehow gained an xtra appendage.

I miss my Nokia and I want my mummy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 16, 2009)

pk said:


> I'm not sure about these things after all...
> 
> Instead of a phone I have a thing I can't stop fiddling with, as though I had somehow gained an xtra appendage.
> 
> I miss my Nokia and I want my mummy.



Heh the iPhone is the ONLY phone I've ever known to make people turn into zombie like gadget fiddlers. Everyone that has one always finds an excuse to take it out and do something with it...posers!


----------



## pk (Jan 17, 2009)

its like a satellite tv and hifi in your pocket what with the YouTube build in the 3g

I'd be interested to know the incidence of pedestrians stumbling into the path of oncoming traffic whilst watching south park...


----------



## paolo (Jan 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh the iPhone is the ONLY phone I've ever known to make people turn into zombie like gadget fiddlers. Everyone that has one always finds an excuse to take it out and do something with it...posers!



Blackberry owners too.

Maybe they're _using_ them


----------



## Badgers (Jan 17, 2009)

I have been a staunch fan of SE phones for a long time but now need a business phone, and the tariff I am taking means I can get any phone I want for free. 
Included in this is the 16GB iPhone on a 12 month contract which is currently offered with a free 16GB iTouch chucked in as well.

I want to stick with O2 so this seems like a no-brainer to me right now. 

Just really, really, really hated itunes


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 17, 2009)

Blimey! That must be one expensive contract.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 17, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Blimey! That must be one expensive contract.



£96 a month


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2009)

Badgers said:


> £96 a month


Madness.


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## Sunray (Jan 17, 2009)

Badgers said:


> I have been a staunch fan of SE phones for a long time but now need a business phone, and the tariff I am taking means I can get any phone I want for free.
> Included in this is the 16GB iPhone on a 12 month contract which is currently offered with a free 16GB iTouch chucked in as well.
> 
> I want to stick with O2 so this seems like a no-brainer to me right now.
> ...



You just don't know how to use it.  There are lots worse software in the world.  

 iPhone and an iTouch for free?


----------



## pk (Jan 17, 2009)

i got the 8gb for free but pay a lot less than 96 quid a month!

iTunes works fine unless you're using it on a PC.


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## Badgers (Jan 19, 2009)

editor said:


> Madness.



It is madness but it seems it will be paid for by a company, not by me. 

The tariff is good: 
Unlimited UK Minutes
Unlimited UK Messages
Unlimited UK Voicemail
Unlimited UK Email & Internet
1000 Inclusive ‘UK to Europe’ Minutes
16GB iPhone 
16GB iTouch 
Free upgrade after 12 months

It is not out of the equation for me to sometimes spend 150+ minutes on the phone in one day. That is a lot of minutes over a month and it would also mean unlimited personal calls too so would mean never worrying about usage.


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## Sunray (Jan 19, 2009)

Thats one hell of a contract.  96 quid a month does seem a great deal esp with the Europe minutes and free iTouch which given is similarity to the iPhone a strange inclusion.  I suppose your other half will be happy with that.


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## Badgers (Jan 19, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Thats one hell of a contract.  96 quid a month does seem a great deal esp with the Europe minutes and free iTouch which given is similarity to the iPhone a strange inclusion.  I suppose your other half will be happy with that.



That was my thought regarding the iTouch too as they seem to be about £200. 

We have resisted putting iTunes on the PC as it has annoyed me before but guess (as mentioned above) there are worse software solutions for music.


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## RubyBlue (Jan 19, 2009)

Sunray said:


> You just don't know how to use it.  There are lots worse software in the world.



Itunes was the reason I never got an Ipod but I've just bought one this week (I only bought it cos I wanted the Bose docking station ) and was surprised how user friendly itunes is - only had my Ipod for 2 weeks but I love it


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## Sunray (Jan 19, 2009)

The older versions of iTunes were a right pain, but but now they have addressed most things that were irritating me with earlier versions.   I now tend to use iTunes because its much faster to just type the band name and click play than search through to the right place in explorer.


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## Cid (Jan 19, 2009)

Bought an iPhone on the weekend... feel like such a fucking tool, but it is a lovely piece of kit. I like the way you can rotate the calculator to reveal all the luvverly functions that I always miss on phone calculators. 

In a spate of consumerist recklessness I bought Hero of Sparta because it looked like good time wasting platform trash. It is.  Certainly has potential as a gaming machine, graphics are way ahead of what I expected.

The camera is pretty shit, I'd quite like a decent one on my phone for spur of the moment stuff, but usually have one on me anyway so not really a problem.


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## middle C (Jan 19, 2009)

but you can't send message with pretty pictures on it.
and you can't record videos.


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## Kanda (Jan 19, 2009)

middle C said:


> but you can't send message with pretty pictures on it.
> and you can't record videos.


 
Boohoo


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## middle C (Jan 19, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Boohoo



then it sucks!  and it isn't truly a 3G phone.


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## Kanda (Jan 19, 2009)

No, it IS a 3G phone, it just doesn't have MMS or Video. It is solely responsible for the best pic of the year yet:


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## metalguru (Jan 20, 2009)

Cid said:


> B I like the way you can rotate the calculator to reveal all the luvverly functions that I always miss on phone calculators.



So it does.

I'd never have noticed that in a 100 years unless you'd pointed it out.

I got my first calculator in 1976 - still remember the excitement.


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## Badgers (Jan 20, 2009)

Sunray said:


> The older versions of iTunes were a right pain, but but now they have addressed most things that were irritating me with earlier versions.   I now tend to use iTunes because its much faster to just type the band name and click play than search through to the right place in explorer.



I need to have a play with iTunes I guess. 
My music is either on CD or in MP3 format and I don't store it in a 'player' of sorts. 

Don't want iTunes taking over my PC as I use Winamp, Windows Media player, VLC and Media Player Classic to open media files. iTunes (in my experience) just wanted to take over all media files. I am sure there is a way around this but I am often a bit confused by tech conflict issues. 

Current network is as follows: 

PC used for media and web 
PC used as home office 
External hard drive (holding all media) 

I am sure that there is a way of getting a lot of my music/films into iTunes whilst keeping them still in original format on hard drive. Not sure if it is possibly to keep it off the PC altogether if already installed on portable devices but guess not from what I have read. Equally I suppose if the portable device is lost/damaged then it is nice to have a back up already in the correct format.


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## The Groke (Jan 20, 2009)

^^^^^^^^^^^

iTunes is still a bit of a dog under Windows IME.

I was always very anti-iTunes, but now I am running a Mac, I love it.

Fast, stable, easy to use, great interface and it is more customisible than people think. It integrates seamlessly with all my other related apps and the OS...it is all good!

Mrs Swarf runs it under Vista (and previously under XP) and it is often unstable and does some pretty weird and frustrating things to your library and Windows settings re: music file associations etc.

 I can completely understand why Windows users would still be extremely skepticle about it.


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## Badgers (Jan 20, 2009)

Difficult isn't it? 

Guess I could just get a Blackberry Bold (seems to be the best other business phone on O2) and forget all the media stuff. 

Just seems that given the tariff and the fact I can get the iPhone and the iTouch on only a 12 month contract it would be a shame for me (and the missus) to miss out on these toys.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 20, 2009)

Winamp is fail once you get use to having a database that's *instantly* searchable.  It was good once but technology has passed it by IMO.

When you install iTunes it lets you choose what file associations it takes, defaults to only the Apple ones if I can recall, but you can stop it taking any if that worries you.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 20, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Winamp is fail once you get use to having a database that's *instantly* searchable.  It was good once but technology has passed it by IMO.



I actually use VLC mostly, just really like how simple it is and I tend to put tracks on one at a time rather than mess about with the whole 'playlist' thing. However wifey likes Winamp so leave it on for her. 



Sunray said:


> When you install iTunes it lets you choose what file associations it takes, defaults to only the Apple ones if I can recall, but you can stop it taking any if that worries you.



I just want all my media files left as they are in one folder. 
If they can be left alone (not AAC) but duplicated in whatever format iTunes wants then I guess it would be okay. Just have experience of iTunes from the past taking over the whole machine for media and it annoyed the hell out of me. 

More reading needed I guess


----------



## tarannau (Jan 20, 2009)

Itunes will leave the format of the music unaffected, although it might try and consolidate all your library into one place. Take off the option in the preferences and it should stop duplicating your files. 

Have a look and read through, but it's not half as scary as some make it out to be. It's a programme that makes it easy to search and store your library in an organised fashion. Meh.


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## Crispy (Jan 20, 2009)

The option you want to turn off is "Keep my music folder organised" - with that turned off, all your existing files will stay exactly where you have them. You can also set the location for newly-imported music to the same folder. You can also set the import format to MP3 (instead of AAC).

In this way, your existing files and folders will be preserved, and any new music you import will go in the right folder.

IMO, it's worth turning on 'copy to library on import' and then when you've downloaded something (to your download folder, or the desktop or wherever), drop it on the itunes window, then delete the original download. That way, itunes will take of putting the files in a sensibly named folder. The thing you have to remember is that itunes doesn't maintain a continuous scan of a 'music' folder - you have to drop files onto it to add them to the library. So you may as well fo the filing and the library-adding at the same time.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 20, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Winamp is fail once you get use to having a database that's *instantly* searchable.  It was good once but technology has passed it by IMO.



Winamp is instantly searchable on my desktop, bit slow on my laptop, but so is itunes.


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## Sunray (Jan 20, 2009)

Do you use the library?  That is the buggiest bit of software ever.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 20, 2009)

Yes, although I've never had problems with it.


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## editor (Jan 20, 2009)

The Boy Genius site has posted up their top ten hates about the iPhone. What do you think, iPhone users?



> 1. You can’t use custom sounds for email notifications, SMS, etc.
> 2. Copy and paste. Sorry, but it’s ridiculous at this point.
> 3. When forwarding an email with an attachment, the iPhone sends it out locally. That means if you have a 1MB attachment, you have to send 1MB worth of data when forwarding. This doesn’t happen on Windows Mobile or the BlackBerry — it’s sent from the server. Not cool.
> 4. No unified inbox. At this point, there’s no reason you should have to go through the rigmarole of switching through tabs and endless menus to get to another email inbox. Cut this down, give us color-coded emails that correspond with that particular account — something!
> ...


Note: I'll be posting up their top ten hates about the Bold/Centro/Pre/Android whatever as soon as they turn up too!


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 20, 2009)

I didn't realise you can't download stuff from the web onto the iPhone, that's a pretty major omission in my view.


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## Gromit (Jan 20, 2009)

1. The ringtone functonality is disabled for the UK so you have to do things the long way round and as they say you can't use custom sounds just anywhere and everywhere. Its limited. Wouldn't put it at number 1 mind.
2. No brainer.
3. Does seem pretty dumb
4. The client is way too simple. No search feature. Better off using your safari for gmail for functionality but guess what, it won't store your password and user name.
5. Dont care. Swap this for no MMS. Stupid.
6. DL iEasyCamera app to be able to touch anywhere on screen to take the pic, not just the silly small icon.
7. No brainer #2
8. Dont care
9. Makes phone more secure but obviously allows Apple to regulate content and protect their iTunes market. All i want is photos, toons and vid though and i can do all that.
10. Hmm


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## Sunray (Jan 20, 2009)

editor said:


> The Boy Genius site has posted up their top ten hates about the iPhone. What do you think, iPhone users?
> 
> Note: I'll be posting up their top ten hates about the Bold/Centro/Pre/Android whatever as soon as they turn up too!



Only 10!

I don't use email mainly because you can't switch off html images in the email client.  The rest centre around the SMS client which is staggeringly poor.   

Still, its all solvable with software and if they don't then there is always the Pre. I've got this constant feeling that Apples dev team for the phone is quite small and over stretched.  There are some features that would make quite a difference and would be trivially easy to implement, yet after 18 months are still missing.  Text forwarding for example.


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## Lazy Llama (Jan 20, 2009)

I'd say it was a strange selection. I guess these things are subjective.

1. Custom sounds for email and SMS, meh...
2. C'n'P - yeah, it'd be nice but I only miss it about once a month.
3. Forwarding large attachments. Never noticed, don't care.
4. Single inbox. Don't care, I don't want my work and email mixed, thanks.
5. Video recording. Would be nice.  Haven't exactly missed it..
6. Camera button. Yes, physical button would be better, especially for self-portraits 
7. SMS forwarding. Would be nice, can't see any reason why it's not there. Haven't missed it though.
8. Deleting calls from call history - never even thought of it. 
9. No file structure - Would be nice, not really missed it, with apps like AirSharing giving a file system if you want to carry files.
10. Push notifications - not really missed it, a regular check is enough. If something is that urgent, someone can call me.

Stuff they missed:

Not being able to send contacts via BT/SMS
Poor camera performance in low light

Probably some other stuff but nothing springs to mind at the moment.


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## Crispy (Jan 20, 2009)

Although I only have a touch, I'd say the only thing on that list that I care about is the lack of local storage - and consequently a lack of standardised methods of getting data from my computer onto the touch. There's loads of PDFs, images, text documents etc. etc. that I'd like to have access to on the go, but there's no simple way to load them on - unless it's something that syncs by default.


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> I'd say it was a strange selection. I guess these things are subjective.


I guess it's also down to whether you had those things in the first place too. 

I use mobile email a lot and paid good money to get an app that offered the choice to either check accounts individually or to check them all in one go, with a universal colour coded inbox indicating their origin. Its brilliant and works a treat (but an Apple version would no doubt look a thousand times slicker).


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## Lazy Llama (Jan 20, 2009)

Crispy said:


> There's loads of PDFs, images, text documents etc. etc. that I'd like to have access to on the go, but there's no simple way to load them on - unless it's something that syncs by default.


AirSharing supports PDFs, images, source code, text, Office and iWork docs. It's £2.99.

It would be nice if it wasn't needed though.


----------



## pk (Jan 21, 2009)

1. You can’t use custom sounds for email notifications, SMS, etc.

Yes you can, I've done it, it's a simple 2 second file conversion. I have custom sounds for all my noises.

2. Copy and paste. Sorry, but it’s ridiculous at this point.

Couldn't do that on my Nokia either, not too bothered as it's hardly a word processor.

3. When forwarding an email with an attachment, the iPhone sends it out locally. That means if you have a 1MB attachment, you have to send 1MB worth of data when forwarding. This doesn’t happen on Windows Mobile or the BlackBerry — it’s sent from the server. Not cool.

Not noticed this, could be an issue.

4. No unified inbox. At this point, there’s no reason you should have to go through the rigmarole of switching through tabs and endless menus to get to another email inbox. Cut this down, give us color-coded emails that correspond with that particular account — something!

Again, switching between multiple inboxes is not what I do.

5. Video recording. Again, it’s technically possible, but we don’t have it.

I'm sure there's an app in the pipeline.

6. The touch screen capture button in the Camera application is horrid. Let’s use one of the volume keys or something to take a picture. It’s not a good setup.

I hate the camera, it takes a good picture but it's fiddly and not as nice as the Nokia ones. No flash either.

7. You can’t forward text messages. Something that is a no-brainer just isn’t here.

No compatibility with SMS Business Card forwarding either. The SMS needs a re-write, no question.

8. There isn’t a way to delete individual calls from the recent call list. Not that we need to hide anything from our girlfriends or anything…

OK, well I can see this annoying some people.

9. No file structure that is user-accessible. That means you can’t save any attachment that isn’t a photo, you can’t download files from websites, etc. Additionally, each application can only access its own file structure so you can forget about doing anything sexy.

I'm not sure if I want non-compatible files clogging up my phone, it certainly slowed my Nokias down. I have a real computer for that stuff.

10. The push-background notification service is still nowhere to be found.

Baffled as to what this could be TBH


----------



## metalguru (Jan 21, 2009)

Of the boygenius e-mail problems highlighted, which is worse?

iPhone

3. When forwarding an email with an attachment, the iPhone sends it out locally. That means if you have a 1MB attachment, you have to send 1MB worth of data when forwarding. This doesn’t happen on Windows Mobile or the BlackBerry — it’s sent from the server. Not cool.

Blackberry

2. Attachments are pretty bad and it has to do with RIM’s ever-so-sneaky compression. We’ve heard that when data is sent over their network, it literally can take a 100kb file and compress it to around 7kb. (A carrier’s dream). Just let us get the entire file without having to constantly wait for it to render when we zoom it, etc.


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## Crispy (Jan 21, 2009)

metalguru said:


> 3. When forwarding an email with an attachment, the iPhone sends it out locally. That means if you have a 1MB attachment, you have to send 1MB worth of data when forwarding. This doesn’t happen on Windows Mobile or the BlackBerry — it’s sent from the server. Not cool.



This is a spurious claim, because it entirely depends on the email technology in question. Blackberry and WM+Exchange are 'arms-length' systems. They prod the server and the server does the grunt work. A bog-standard IMAP account (eg. Gmail) will make the client fetch an attachment, and re-send it. If the author had his iphone set up with an Exchange server, he would not encounter this issue.

I think.


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## pk (Jan 21, 2009)

Crispy said:


> If the author had his iphone set up with an Exchange server, he would not encounter this issue.
> 
> I think.



See I think mine is, so it's a non-issue.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 21, 2009)

pk said:


> See I think mine is, so it's a non-issue.


Be so good as to test it?


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

Crispy said:


> This is a spurious claim, because it entirely depends on the email technology in question. Blackberry and WM+Exchange are 'arms-length' systems. They prod the server and the server does the grunt work. A bog-standard IMAP account (eg. Gmail) will make the client fetch an attachment, and re-send it. If the author had his iphone set up with an Exchange server, he would not encounter this issue.
> 
> I think.


What percentage of iPhone users do you think use an Exchange server for their mail?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 21, 2009)

editor said:


> What percentage of iPhone users do you think use an Exchange server for their mail?



I do, it rocks


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 21, 2009)

editor said:


> What percentage of iPhone users do you think use an Exchange server for their mail?



A much lower percent than the Blackberry owners


----------



## Crispy (Jan 21, 2009)

editor said:


> What percentage of iPhone users do you think use an Exchange server for their mail?


I don't know. All I'm saying is that the claim is framed as the iphone's fault, whereas it's actually the fault of the choice of email service. Anyone who buys a blackberry that's not tied to a RIM server will encounter exactly the same problem. Ditto WM without Exchange.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

Crispy said:


> I don't know. All I'm saying is that the claim is framed as the iphone's fault, whereas it's actually the fault of the choice of email service. Anyone who buys a blackberry that's not tied to a RIM server will encounter exactly the same problem. Ditto WM without Exchange.


I don't know enough about how it works, to be honest, but the writer seems to frame it as an iPhone specific problem: 

_"When forwarding an email with an attachment, the iPhone sends it out locally. That means if you have a 1MB attachment, you have to send 1MB worth of data when forwarding. This doesn’t happen on Windows Mobile or the BlackBerry — it’s sent from the server. Not cool."_


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## Crispy (Jan 21, 2009)

I read what the guy said. And then I explained why he got those results. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but IMAP does not support transparent forwarding of attchments like that. Once you've started writing the forward, the server sees it as an entirely new message. So it _has_ to download it then send it on. You can only avoid that by using RIM server or Exchange.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

Curiously, Google has just abandoned its iGoogle site:


> iGoogle falls out of love with iPhone 11:49AM, Wednesday 21st January 2009
> Google has quietly pulled the iGoogle website that had been tailored specifically for iPhone customers.
> 
> The iPhone-specific version of the site was optimised for the smartphone's Safari browser and lumped all the page content into a single column, making it easier to browse. It also featured expandable and collapsable section headers, making it




http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/245791/igoogle-falls-out-of-love-with-iphone.html


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## Crispy (Jan 21, 2009)

cutting costs, I guess


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## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

Can you restrict the amount of a message you download on to the iPhone?

On my Palm, I can only download, say, the first 1k of a message, and if that's got a 1MB attachment, I can still forward the entire thing to a third party without ever having to download it, IIRC. Is that what he means?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 21, 2009)

Hmm, if that's the case, then I may have it ass-backwards. We need an email server technology expert in the house!


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Hmm, if that's the case, then I may have it ass-backwards. We need an email server technology expert in the house!


I'm as good at email server technology as you are with stock market tips!

Boy Genius usually know their stuff though, so I would think there's more to it than it just being a generic Exchange server issue.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 21, 2009)

editor said:


> On my Palm, I can only download, say, the first 1k of a message, and if that's got a 1MB attachment, I can still forward the entire thing to a third party without ever having to download it, IIRC. Is that what he means?



This was how my old WM phone worked as well iirc.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 21, 2009)

editor said:


> Can you restrict the amount of a message you download on to the iPhone?
> 
> On my Palm, I can only download, say, the first 1k of a message, and if that's got a 1MB attachment, I can still forward the entire thing to a third party without ever having to download it, IIRC. Is that what he means?



It doesn't automatically download the whole message, you have to confirm you want to I beleive


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## Crispy (Jan 21, 2009)

Kanda said:


> It doesn't automatically download the whole message, you have to confirm you want to I beleive


Yes, you have to pres the 'get attachment' button, but not sure how this works with forwards.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

There's loads of interesting feedback on their site, with loads of cut'n'paste moaning and requests for multi tasking.
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/01/20/the-top-10-things-we-hate-about-the-iphone/

This is surprising:


> You can NOT dial a number embedded in a calendar apt. The iPhone treats the whole event as an image.
> Is there any other smartphone that does NOT let you highlight and dial a number in a calendar event?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 21, 2009)

> Is there any other smartphone that does NOT let you highlight and dial a number in a calendar event?



Have just tested this on Android at it works fine


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 21, 2009)

Just a quickie as I have people waiting to eat lunch with me.

Any IMAP or POP server will NOT forward a mail item they're for storage/retreival only, ALL outbound goes through an SMTP server, so the client HAS to download the whole message if it is all going to be forwarded*.

That's why you always have to specify a POP/IMAP server AND an SMTP outgoing mail server when setting up POP/IMAP.

Exchange is different, as Crispy says, it takes commands from the client to manipulate the message and is responsible for sending and receiving.


Incidentally, Entourage, the Microsoft Exchange client for the Mac does most of its work at the client end, but there's a beta version which changes this.

(*Unless someone changed the IMAP spec without telling me)


----------



## Crispy (Jan 21, 2009)

Ah, good I thought I was right 

ed- maybe on your palm, it did the dl and re-send of the attchment in the background, but the command appeared instantaneous?


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## Sunray (Jan 21, 2009)

Not sure multi-tasking is an issue for me.  Its not like I kick off a download or iPhone re-encode of a battlestar episode for my iPhone and then start browsing the web like I would on a PC?  This is especially true on a 400Mhz CPU and puny battery.

I quite like the idea of an area you plug a small chunk of code that registers what events its interested in and when the phone gets them, it reacts to events by updating the apps memory.  When you start the app the state has changed.  This would mean the main app didn't have to be running or even loaded but it could still react to external events.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Not sure multi-tasking is an issue for me.  Its not like I kick off a download or iPhone re-encode of a battlestar episode for my iPhone and then start browsing the web like I would on a PC?  This is especially true on a 400Mhz CPU and puny battery.


It doesn't work on WM, but I *really* like the way Palm implements it: work on an email, flip it to one side to check some details on a website, or look up a map and maybe a SMS, and then flick it back into view to keep on writing. 

If it works as advertised, that is brilliant.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 21, 2009)

editor said:


> It doesn't work on WM, but I *really* like the way Palm implements it: work on an email, flip it to one side to check some details on a website, or look up a map and maybe a SMS, and then flick it back into view to keep on writing.
> 
> If it works as advertised, that is brilliant.


But that's not multi-tasking, that's task switching which the iPhone does just fine.

I did exactly what you described on the iPhone just now, though instead of 'flipping' I press the button. When I switched back to the email, I'm exactly where I was when I switched the task.

One place that it doesn't work is when switching between 'pages' in  Safari as it tends to reload the page when you switch to it. Which is annoying.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 21, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> But that's not multi-tasking, that's task switching which the iPhone does just fine.



You can do the same on Android as well, it's just not quite as slick as the way Palm have implemented it (you hold down the home key for a couple of seconds, then tap the running app you want from the list that appears)


----------



## Structaural (Jan 21, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Not sure multi-tasking is an issue for me.  Its not like I kick off a download or iPhone re-encode of a battlestar episode for my iPhone and then start browsing the web like I would on a PC?  This is especially true on a 400Mhz CPU and puny battery.



I just want it for two things A) running a Terminal for SSH and running a VNC and B) listening to the radio while surfing the web.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> One place that it doesn't work is when switching between 'pages' in  Safari as it tends to reload the page when you switch to it. Which is annoying.


Err, which is the scenario I just described. 

Even my Centro can perform basic multi-tasking (play music while surfing the web and downloading mail in background, get IM updates in the background etc), but the Palm Pre wouldn't have to reload or suspend anything. That's a big improvement.


> *3. Multitasking.*
> The iPhone's apps are great and a big part of the phone's appeal. But have you ever tried to listen to Pandora while you're checking Gmail? Can't do it. The iPhone's limitation on running multiple apps is a serious drawback.
> 
> The HTC G1 improves on that with the notifications drawer, but it's an insufficient solution because it's still too hard to see what's currently running.
> ...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 21, 2009)

editor said:


> Err, which is the scenario I just described.


It may be what you thought you described, but you said "work on an email, flip it to one side to check some details on a website, or look up a map and maybe a SMS, and then flick it back into view to keep on writing".

That works fine. That's app switching.

What doesn't work nicely is being halfway through writing a post on one *web page*, switch to another *web page* and then switch back, i.e. switching pages purely within the browser, not switching apps. 
Safari does a reload of the page when you switch between pages. That's useful in some cases, e.g. you have your favourite web pages open all the time, and it refreshes them when you switch to them so you always see the current version, but other times it's annoying if you're in the middle of entering data on a form.

It's an iPhone annoyance for your list. App switching definitely isn't.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> It's an iPhone annoyance for your list. App switching definitely isn't.


The Palm looks to do it far better and more elegantly, but the truth for me is that the biggest annoyance would be the iPhone's inability to copy and paste a single detail from an SMS, memo, word doc or web page when composing an email.

There is a cut and paste bodge out now for jailbroken iPhone's btw. I'll post the link if anyone's interested.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 21, 2009)

The big test of the Pre's multitasking will be what happens when you run out of RAM. IIRC, they have said that the app model will have constant data integrity - ie. no Save button. So I suspect that the 'oldest' card will be switched to a screenshot placeholder and the application terminated. When you tap the 'dormant' card, the app is re-launched and the data should all be as it was. That behaviour is currently how all PalmOS and iPhone 'multitasking' is done (with some hacks for continuous music playing etc)


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

Crispy said:


> The big test of the Pre's multitasking will be what happens when you run out of RAM. IIRC, they have said that the app model will have constant data integrity - ie. no Save button. So I suspect that the 'oldest' card will be switched to a screenshot placeholder and the application terminated.


That method wouldn't make sense of if the 'oldest' card/app is your email client though, so presumably there would have to be some sort of weighting towards more essential apps.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

At last! I can now view the App Store on my PC and see what's on offer: http://app-store.appspot.com/

There's some nice apps (lots of ex-Palm ones too) but boy oh boy there isn't half some utter shite in there too.

Edit: how does complete drivel like 'Fart for Free' get past the Stalag Apple guards?
http://app-store.appspot.com/?url=v...ware+Applications-36-Top+Free+Software-Link_6


----------



## Sunray (Jan 21, 2009)

I can only assume that the CPU they are using is both much lower power and has higher IPC than the ARM11 used on the iPhone and every other smart phone in existence. 

Clearly having an application in the backgound running all the time, there is serious potential for the battery to run down much quicker.  As you may be relying on the phone that could cause you problems. I know the iPod app starting up on 'play all songs' has done my battery on a couple of occasions.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 21, 2009)

editor said:


> At last! I can now view the App Store on my PC and see what's on offer: http://app-store.appspot.com/
> 
> There's some nice apps (lots of ex-Palm ones too) but boy oh boy there isn't half some utter shite in there too.
> 
> ...



I think they have some to quality with respect to crashing the phone and correct use of the API, so they test for out of bounds parameters and stuff and if it fails they will fail it. 

This has nothing to do with the actual application itself apart from specific ones they have said they don't want. 

I've been moaning about the quality issue forever.  

Don't look at the store any more, full of utter shit, tend to go for blogs like 

http://www.appcraver.com/


----------



## paolo (Jan 21, 2009)

All the iPhone native apps multi task. So it can be playing music, downloading a podcast, sending mail, loading a web page and receiving an SMS all at once.
For 3rd party apps - if the developer chooses - it effectivley suspends rather than quits. State information can be saved, and can reload when you go back to the app. Some of the games I have do this perfectly.

Android is similar, although the state save mechanism is possibly more transparent from a developer point of view. The OS itself manages the state-save/reload.

As for webOS, do we actually know if it is simply a state-save model, or that they allow all 3rd party applications to run in background? And if they do allow that, how does the user manage resource limitations, I.e CPU and memory? Is there a task manager type utility, to determine which app is consuming too much?

Lots of questions here.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 21, 2009)

I was expecting to hear about the new v2.3 of the firmware around the Mac world conference but no.  

Still no word on whats in the new version.


----------



## paolo (Jan 21, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I was expecting to hear about the new v2.3 of the firmware around the Mac world conference but no.
> 
> Still no word on whats in the new version.



No. And Push Server appears to be MIA.

By the way, I'm finding Safari is much more stable in 2.2 - still the odd crash, but not doing it's slow-down-then-die thing when typing.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> All the iPhone native apps multi task. So it can be playing music, downloading a podcast, sending mail, loading a web page and receiving an SMS all at once.


Aye. My ol'Centro does that too, but unless you're going to stick solely to native apps, you'll soon start to appreciate some proper multitasking for even simple things like staying connected to a Skype chat to take calls and IM messages while doing other things.


paolo999 said:


> As for webOS, do we actually know if it is simply a state-save model, or that they allow all 3rd party applications to run in background? And if they do allow that, how does the user manage resource limitations, I.e CPU and memory? Is there a task manager type utility, to determine which app is consuming too much?


I guess the nearest thing is to see how WM handles multitasking. Mainly it worked OK for me apart from Microsoft's stupid decision not to let you actually fully close a program by clicking the big red X in the to corner. 

I occasionally had to go into the task manager to get rid of unwanted lurking programs, although some 3rd party solutions fix this.

Palm's method of closing apps looks superb: you just flick them up off the page to close them, push them to the side to work on something else.


----------



## pk (Jan 21, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Be so good as to test it?



just forwarded on a 1.5mb email... took long enough to make me think it does send the whole lot...


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2009)

Still, at least you lucky Apple people are getting new apps coming through. There's absolutely bugger all for the old Palm OS. I'm driving down the Lost Cause Boulevard and the Palm Pre turnpike is miles away!


----------



## paolo (Jan 21, 2009)

In terms of receiving notifications (IM etc), an architecture along the lines of the (undelivered) Apple Push Server is superior to having stuff run in background solely for that benefit.

Still, all that aside, we've no idea what webOS will do with 3rd party apps. Maybe it will let them run, and include a task manager so people can load that utility to diagnose transient resource issues with their phone. Or maybe they've thought of something cleverer. Or maybe 3rd party apps won't have free rein. Or, or, or...


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2009)

Oh dear...





> Apple has approved the "Wobble" app for the iPhone, notable as it shows how much more relaxed the company is becoming towards official iPhone applications....
> 
> The company behind Wobble, that sound slightly surprised their app was passed, states: "Much to the delight of iPhoners worldwide, Wobble can make photos of women's breasts wobble and jiggle in a realistic 3D manner".
> 
> ...


See the sadness in action: http://chillifresh.com/wobble/


----------



## Sunray (Jan 22, 2009)

*shrugs*


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 22, 2009)

Damned if they do, damned if they don't.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> Damned if they do, damned if they don't.


That's not really the point, is it? 

Oh well.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 22, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> Poor camera performance in low light





pk said:


> I hate the camera, it takes a good picture but it's fiddly and not as nice as the Nokia ones. No flash either.[/COLOR]



Poor camera, period. 
It doesn't take a good picture, it takes a fucking shit picture. Then throw in that awful touch screen button & it's pretty much proper useless.
Waste of a feature. No excuses.


----------



## pk (Jan 22, 2009)

well the pic of the jet plane swimming in the Hudson was superb, taken with an iPhone... and I do OK in daylight with it, so...


----------



## pk (Jan 22, 2009)

editor said:


> Still, at least you lucky Apple people are getting new apps coming through. There's absolutely bugger all for the old Palm OS. I'm driving down the Lost Cause Boulevard and the Palm Pre turnpike is miles away!



Changing the system language on some Palms appears to be impossible too.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2009)

pk said:


> Changing the system language on some Palms appears to be impossible too.


You just do a hard reset and pick the language you want on restart.

How often do you need to do that then anyway?


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 22, 2009)

pk said:


> well the pic of the jet plane swimming in the Hudson was superb, taken with an iPhone... and I do OK in daylight with it, so...



I wouldn't go as far as 'superb'.
It was adiquate viewed on a website at about 5x7cm. (but aesthetically as photo, it was nice)

Tried pulling one into PS? 






Whatever though, if you're happy with it...


----------



## pk (Jan 22, 2009)

editor said:


> You just do a hard reset and pick the language you want on restart.



Nope, tried that, didn't give me any options.



> How often do you need to do that then anyway?



Once would be nice.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jan 22, 2009)

It's a bit odd that the ipod touch and the iphone are nearly identical and yet one is twice the other's price... [/musing]


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 22, 2009)

Bob_the_lost said:


> It's a bit odd that the ipod touch and the iphone are nearly identical and yet one is twice the other's price... [/musing]




Near identical except for the whole smart phone bit you mean?


----------



## middle C (Jan 22, 2009)

Bob_the_lost said:


> It's a bit odd that the ipod touch and the iphone are nearly identical and yet one is twice the other's price... [/musing]



ipod touch = iphone without the phone.

i wouldn't mind getting an ipod touch for games.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 22, 2009)

I love my touch, it's probably my favorite gadget ever. Great ipod (with no moving parts!) and just handy to have around when there's wifi. I'd reccomend it.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 22, 2009)

Bob_the_lost said:


> It's a bit odd that the ipod touch and the iphone are nearly identical and yet one is twice the other's price... [/musing]



Except for the unlimited mobile internet on two networks (edge and 3G), phone, virtual voicemail, sms, GPS...


----------



## Structaural (Jan 22, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> Poor camera, period.
> It doesn't take a good picture, it takes a fucking shit picture. Then throw in that awful touch screen button & it's pretty much proper useless.
> Waste of a feature. No excuses.



I've improved mine slightly by using Darkroom - it uses the accelerometer to improve camera shake.

It's still pants though. 


I bought that 'edge' game - it's pretty good, lots of swiping rather than leaning. Addictive in a tetris sort of way.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jan 22, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> Near identical except for the whole smart phone bit you mean?


The 3g chip yeah, maybe the camera too. Pretty expensive chips.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2009)

Crispy said:


> I love my touch, it's probably my favorite gadget ever. Great ipod (with no moving parts!) and just handy to have around when there's wifi. I'd reccomend it.


The Touch is a fantastic device. Really well thought out and beautifully designed.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 22, 2009)

Bob_the_lost said:


> It's a bit odd that the ipod touch and the iphone are nearly identical and yet one is twice the other's price... [/musing]



My iPhone was £99 or something...


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2009)

Kanda said:


> My iPhone was £99 or something...


Contract free?

Looks like the Nano is a no-no:





> *No iPhone Nano*
> Here's the quoted Tim Cook's statement that literally crushed my, yours, and every iPhone owners-wannabe's dream: "_You know us, we're not going to play in the low-end voice phone business. That's not who we are. That's not why we're here. We'll let somebody do that, our goal is not to be the unit share leader in the phone industry. It is to build the best phone."_ **sob**


----------



## Sunray (Jan 22, 2009)

I doubt they would have the manufacturing capacity to make a cheap top notch phone but they do have the innovative ability to batter the competition.  I for one would like to see them take on Nokia because I think they have rested on their laurels for a bit too long.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2009)

...aaaaand cue Apple's well-oiled and overworked legal team:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/23/meizu-m8-prepped-for-full-scale-launch-ip-battle-with-apple/

Their iPhone-a-like comes with removable battery, copy + paste, background task management, video recording plus a monster 720 x 480 pixel display display.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 23, 2009)

Couldn't be more of a rip-off! Regardless of the legal argument.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 23, 2009)

editor said:


> ...aaaaand cue Apple's well-oiled and overworked legal team:
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/23/meizu-m8-prepped-for-full-scale-launch-ip-battle-with-apple/
> 
> Their iPhone-a-like comes with removable battery, copy + paste, background task management, video recording plus a monster 720 x 480 pixel display display.



But with Windows Mobile.


----------



## g force (Jan 23, 2009)

Sunray said:


> But with Windows Mobile.



Like giving a Ferrari and Daewoo engine....


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2009)

Sunray said:


> But with Windows Mobile.


Damn! You mean I can't install the tits wobbling program? Double damn!

*cancels all interest in the knock off.


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2009)

Apple have got to dish out $22.5m for their easily-scratched first-gen Nanos after agreeing to stump up after a class action lawsuit:
http://www.appleinsider.com/article..._22_5m_in_suit_over_scratched_ipod_nanos.html


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2009)

Wow - this iPhone game looks_ fantastic!_






http://www.makayama.com/flightstunts.html

No demo available  but there's YouTube vids here: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s3nOlHJNNOE
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DYyfSn9czH8


----------



## Cid (Jan 26, 2009)

I'm currently very pissed off that there's no way to play files from the Radio 4 archive or live radio (which are .ram files)... At least as far as I can tell from a swift google, anyone know of anything?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2009)

nope. this is one of the Bad Points about the iphone - apple are strict about who gets to do what media on the phone: Either do it in an apple-friendly format (.mp3 .aac .mov or .mp4 for example) or don't get to do it at all. So there is no Realaudio player on the iphone, just like there is no flash and no windows media player.

BBC iplayer has its own set of files for the iphone, in .mp4, so the iPlayer works, but the audio at the bbc is all in Realaudio. Which sucks.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2009)

Sorry it's of no real use, but here's a handy general resource for finding the BBC 'listen again' .ra files:
http://beebotron.org/#BBC_Listen_Again_Links

A bit about the iPhone and BBC here:
http://penguinsix.com/2008/07/25/bbc-radio-on-the-iphone/


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2009)

also of no use, but handy if you want to listen to bbc radio live on an iphone/touch:

http://www.bbcstreams.com/tutorial - this shows how to use a free app store program to connect to the bbc's Windows Media streams
http://www.bbcstreams.com/ - then you have to type the addresses into Fstream.

Clunky, but you only have to do it once. Still far from ideal, though.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 26, 2009)

You can access iPlayer from the site (or via the BBC iPlayer app, which just redirects you to the site). That gives you all the recently published stuff.


----------



## Cid (Jan 27, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You can access iPlayer from the site (or via the BBC iPlayer app, which just redirects you to the site). That gives you all the recently published stuff.



Yeah I know, I'd just like to be able to access the archive and get streaming radio...

Just as an aside is it possible to record streaming .ram stuff and convert to mp3? not off the BBC site of course.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 27, 2009)

It's possible but I don't know of any means of doing it from the iPhone.

I think there are some apps which let you listen to live net radio by the way, but I'm not sure what they are.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 27, 2009)

Crispy said:


> also of no use, but handy if you want to listen to bbc radio live on an iphone/touch:
> 
> http://www.bbcstreams.com/tutorial - this shows how to use a free app store program to connect to the bbc's Windows Media streams
> http://www.bbcstreams.com/ - then you have to type the addresses into Fstream.
> ...



Thank you for that. I just added BBC1,1E,2,3,4,5Live.

If only i could add Red Dragon FM but the media group that owns them only streams to a website despite the fact that they have a Capital FM App.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2009)

Cid said:


> Yeah I know, I'd just like to be able to access the archive and get streaming radio...
> 
> Just as an aside is it possible to record streaming .ram stuff and convert to mp3? not off the BBC site of course.


Yep: http://all-streaming-media.com/streaming-media-faq/faq-record-real-audio-to-mp3.htm


----------



## Structaural (Jan 27, 2009)

Crispy said:


> also of no use, but handy if you want to listen to bbc radio live on an iphone/touch:
> 
> http://www.bbcstreams.com/tutorial - this shows how to use a free app store program to connect to the bbc's Windows Media streams
> http://www.bbcstreams.com/ - then you have to type the addresses into Fstream.
> ...



Gutted, doesn't work in Europe. Oh well, back to podcasts of Radio 4. At least I can stream on my work computer...


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2009)

Good news iPhone peeps - you can now use Podcaster!
http://palmaddict.typepad.com/palma...resurrected-from-the-land-of-banned-apps.html


----------



## Sunray (Jan 28, 2009)

Just got the 2.2.1 SDK announcement for use on OS 2.2.1 so its not 2.3 thats coming out, its 2.2.1 a point release. So no cut an paste for that.

Thats not coming till the major version changes.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 28, 2009)

2.2.1 came out yesterday, I've upgraded already. The update notice said improved stability in Safari and corrects issues with photos saved from Mail.

Not noticed any difference really, but not been using Safari much today.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 28, 2009)

bit disappointing given that it does need some work and that's all they have managed in 3 months?


----------



## Cid (Jan 28, 2009)

Thanks for the advice guys, will have a play when i have more time.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2009)

Hardware revision for the ipone coming up soon:
http://www.macrumors.com/2009/01/28/next-generation-iphone-model-revealed-in-firmware/
launch model was 1,1 then the 3g model was 1,2. This new model number is 2,1

For comparison, the ipod touch went from 1,1 to 2,1 when it gained a faster processor, speaker, hardware volume buttons etc. so expect changes of that magnitude I suppose.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2009)

...or it could be a typo.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/next-gen-iphone-evidence-lurking-in-latest-firmware/


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2009)

editor said:


> ...or it could be a typo.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/28/next-gen-iphone-evidence-lurking-in-latest-firmware/


Well, it's an entirely new <key> entry for a model with a new <modelID> number (this is 4757, iphone2g was 4752, iphone3g was 4754). Not a typo.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Well, it's an entirely new <key> entry for a model with a new <modelID> number (this is 4757, iphone2g was 4752, iphone3g was 4754). Not a typo.


Whatever. I can't get excited by a changing digit in a pile of code, so it only becomes a story to me when there's some _actual information about what's new on the phone._


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2009)

editor said:


> Whatever. I can't get excited by a changing digit in a pile of code, so it only becomes a story to me when there's some _actual information about what's new on the phone._



I don't think anyones excited. It's just some info that there is a new one probably on the way.

Good info for people that may be about to buy one, they can hold off for a bit.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2009)

Kanda said:


> It's just some info that there is a new one probably on the way.


I think everyone knew that already to be honest.


----------



## chintz (Jan 29, 2009)

arse, been holding off for a while, caved in and ordered on Moday


----------



## Kanda (Jan 29, 2009)

editor said:


> I think everyone knew that already to be honest.



Yeah, ok. See post above ^^


----------



## paolo (Jan 29, 2009)

Sunray said:


> bit disappointing given that it does need some work and that's all they have managed in 3 months?



I know, that's what I thought, but it's possible they've branched the code, so it might not be indicative of progress.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2009)

The announcement of the Palm Pre is probably the best news for iPhone fans. Seeing as it's set the bar higher, now it's Apple's turn to come up with some more real innovation.

Win all round, really.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 30, 2009)

editor said:


> The announcement of the Palm Pre is probably the best news for iPhone fans. Seeing as it's set the bar higher, now it's Apple's turn to come up with some more real innovation.
> 
> Win all round, really.



I'd like less innovation and just improving what they have like a normal SMS tool.  Might have stolen Palms idea, but its implementation lacks something to be desired.


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I'd like less innovation and just improving what they have like a normal SMS tool.  Might have stolen Palms idea, but its implementation lacks something to be desired.


I imagine Palm will be quick to bang on about the iPhone's shortcomings, and that should give Apple a big enough kick in the arse to fix things.


----------



## Private Storm (Jan 30, 2009)

Looks like Apple think the iPhone can cut the mustard as a proper gaming device. Based on Rolando, I think they could be right.

http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/21884/22908/apple-plans-20-iphone-games.phtml


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2009)

I can see the iPhone doing well as a gaming device, but the lack of proper hardware buttons is a BIG pain.


----------



## paolo (Jan 30, 2009)

In terms of mobile gaming, it is - right here and now - the dominant platform.

As a snapshot, here are the finalists for this year's Independent Gaming Festival (think of it as Sundance, for mobile games)




> IGF Mobile Best Game
> 
> Cubic Republic (IKS Mobile) – Flash Lite
> Smiles (Sykhronics Entertainment) – iPhone/iPod touch
> ...




For an excellent insight into what's going on, see Keith Stuart's Guardian Games Blog


----------



## paolo (Feb 1, 2009)

Adobe talk to Bloomberg about Flash for the iPhone


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2009)

Interesting. Apple do try adobe's patience!


----------



## paolo (Feb 1, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Interesting. Apple do try adobe's patience!



Always was a bumpy relationship! Remember the PostScript/Truetype war?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 1, 2009)

I've been downloading loads of wallpapers. I've got too many to choose from now. Just synching them over.

Spending too much time playing Bejewelled2 at the moment


----------



## pk (Feb 1, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Interesting. Apple do try adobe's patience!



Adobe made software exclusively for Apple in the first two years of business, had to wait that long before a PC was able to run Adobe apps ...

Then Adobe got greedy and tried to shaft Apple.

So no surprises if there's bad blood.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2009)

pk said:


> Adobe made software exclusively for Apple in the first two years of business, had to wait that long before a PC was able to run Adobe apps ...
> 
> Then Adobe got greedy and tried to shaft Apple.


Do you mean 'shafted' as in Adobe made a sound business decision to start developing their software for the far more popular Windows platform? It makes even more sense to have Windows as their primary development platform seeing as Macs can now run the OS.

Still, when if you're going to bang on about 'greedy' companies making vast amounts of cash out of their customers, you might want to take a peek at Apple's profits. They're awfully big compared to Adobe's, you know.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 1, 2009)

Over the past 5 years, the average gross profit margin of Apple has been less than that of .....














Palm Inc.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> Over the past 5 years, the average gross profit margin of Apple has been less than that of .....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


LOL. A slippery politician would certainly be very proud of that marvellous piece of twisting on the question of Apple's company's profits!  

Now how about you compare real world things like money in the bank, revenue, and profits?

Here. Let me get you started. Here's Apple's profits:


> In the three months to 27 September, Apple made a net profit of $1.14bn (£683m), compared with $904m for the same period last year. Apple said it sold 6.9 million of the latest iPhone model during the period.
> 
> For the three months until the end of December, Apple said revenues may be just below Wall Street's $11bn target.
> 
> Revenues for the current quarter also just missed market expectations of $8bn, rising 27% to $7.9bn. (BBC)


Seeing as you brought up Palm, how do you fancy posting up their profits for the same period for comparison?

PS Can I see your source for your Palm claim too, please?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 1, 2009)

The figures were from Forbes. 

Yeah, Apple make huge profits but then they sell huge amounts of stuff. A huge amount more than Palm anyway.

 If you're against Apple because they sell a lot of products, rather than the margin they make on them, you can't really accuse them of greed, just ambition.  

Palm, by contrast, have been making a loss recently ($41.9M net loss for Q1 of their 2009 financial year on $366M revenue). Probably because they've not had a terribly attractive product range for the past 6 months. Even the Centro and a 49% year-on-year increase in smartphone sales didn't pull them a profit.

Microsoft just announced that their profits have 'plummeted' to a mere $4.17 billion.

If you want to see greed, try their 84.3% gross profit margin average over 5 years compared to Apple's 33.2% and Palm's 34%.
And for the record, Adobe's figure....  96.8%. Now what was that about "greed"...


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2009)

GPM is a pretty useless measure for a company that doesn't make physical products - hence the high figures for adobe and microsoft.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> If you're against Apple because they sell a lot of products, rather than the margin they make on them, you can't really accuse them of greed, just ambition.


I didn't say that. My comments were in response to pk's rant about Adobe supposedly 'shafting' Apple by getting 'greedy.'

Personally, I find the notion of corporates raking in multi-billion dollar profits while their execs scoop up obscene levels of cash truly distasteful, whatever the company.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 1, 2009)

It's not like it's Job's only job either.

Still, with the $1/year he gets as salary from Apple, he probably needs a second job to keep him in new iPods 





(yes, yes, I know he gets stock options.....)


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> It's not like it's Job's only job either.
> 
> Still, with the $1/year he gets as salary from Apple, he probably needs a second job to keep him in new iPods
> 
> ...


That's really a meaningless 'fact' though, isn't it?

He's filthy, stinking, obscenely rich.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 1, 2009)




----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


>


Why the rolleyes? I'd say the same about any rich cunt raking in an _obscene _$650m a year.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 1, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> In terms of mobile gaming, it is - right here and now - the dominant platform.



It's the dominant mobile gaming platform? Has it sold more than 80 million units like the Nintendo DS?


----------



## paolo (Feb 1, 2009)

Looking at the engagement-factor, yes absolutely. 2000 games vs less than 1000 each for the DS and PSP. A near clean sweep of the IGF finalists. Developers flocking in droves, according to reports. There's nothing pointing to that level of stickiness on the conventional gaming hand helds.

Installed base isn't irrelevant of course, but by the same measure, would you say WinMo is 'the thing' in phones, because it's got the biggest user base? Maybe you would maybe you wouldn't, but software sales and developer interest is a useful barometer. It's why WebOS is a player, with precisely zero consumer sales.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2009)

Yeah, but the DS costs 70 quid and eveyone's kids have one. It's genuinely mass market. That's not the market apple's going for.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 1, 2009)

It's not the _dominant_ gaming platform, but it is easily the most interesting one at the moment, particularly for new developers; as well as all of the possibilities raised by the accelerometer and touch screen, it's still sort of possible to make a name for yourself as a small coder with a good product, both because the market is small (if growing) and it's extremely easy for people to get hold of your game very quickly indeed.

There just isn't any way that a small developer can practically get a game out for the DS or PSP and have any significant number of people have access to it. (Homebrew R4 stuff just does not count.) For the iPhoneTouch, all you need to do is make it and stick it in the app store.

I've been thinking of dabbling with Objective-C myself to make iPhone apps in fact.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Looking at the engagement-factor, yes absolutely. 2000 games vs less than 1000 each for the DS and PSP.


Yes, but an awful lot of the iPhone games currently on offer are absolutely shit.

That's not to say that the iPhone isn't becoming an important mobile gaming platform, but until it's as cheap, as affordable and as user friendly for gaming as the DS, it's got a fair way to go yet.


----------



## paolo (Feb 2, 2009)

It's certainly true that the majority of iPhone/iPod games are low budget affairs, with quality to match. But it was the IGF list that opened my eyes as to how highly regarded the best "i" games are, vs other mobile platforms.

Last Month's EDGE magazine - that covers all gaming, not just mobile - ran Rolando as the cover story. Quite possibly a blip, and maybe I'm overstating the case. I guess the really interesting thing to know would be software revenues.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2009)

Ha ha. A French appeals court has upheld a ban on an Apple iPhone-Orange exclusivity deal citing competitive concerns.


> France's competition authorities successfully sought to prevent Apple from offering the iPhone in France exclusively under the Orange deal.
> 
> Rival French operator Bouygues Telecom had fought successfully to prevent the exclusivity deal citing that the Apple-Orange partnership unfairly stifled competition.
> 
> ...



All good for consumers. Let's hope the battle gets brought to the UK next.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 4, 2009)

editor said:


> Ha ha. A French appeals court has upheld a ban on an Apple iPhone-Orange exclusivity deal citing competitive concerns.
> 
> 
> All good for consumers. Let's hope the battle gets brought to the UK next.



If the European Union looked into things could get interesting...


----------



## pk (Feb 4, 2009)

editor said:


> Do you mean 'shafted' as in Adobe made a sound business decision to start developing their software for the far more popular Windows platform?



No, that's not what I meant at all.

Do you really know what happened between Adobe and Apple back then, or what is happening now between Adobe and Microsoft?

Because it doesn't seem like you do at all.

Adobe fucking hate Microsoft, they can't wait to get off the Windows OS.

They are tied up with them out of necessity, not choice, and Adobe products perform poorly on Windows compared to the same products on the Apple's OS.

Five or so years ago, Adobe gradually withdrew resources and support from OS X, in hopes of moving customers to Windows, because it's cheaper to support one platform and they were also receiving sweetners from Windows, who were desperate to convince people that their machines were as good, if not better, than Apple machines for high end work.

It's clear that they aren't, and now Windows are trying to develop copycat apps that they intend to wipe out the Adobe market share, which is pissing off Adobe.

So, Adobe are returning to Apple once more.

But you knew all that, right editor??


----------



## pk (Feb 4, 2009)

editor said:


> That's really a meaningless 'fact' though, isn't it?
> 
> He's filthy, stinking, obscenely rich.



But he sells good products, machines, solutions.

Bill Gates got even more filthy, stinking, obscenely rich selling software licences, that's it... mainly comprised of ideas he stole from other people.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2009)

pk said:


> But he sells good products, machines, solutions.
> 
> Bill Gates got even more filthy, stinking, obscenely rich selling software licences, that's it... mainly comprised of ideas he stole from other people.


Very, very poor comparison there, mate. Bill Gates may be filthy stinking obscenely rich but there's a big difference compared to most rich cunts: he's also the one of the world's greatest philanthropists, giving away billions of his earnings.


> BILL GATES' personal charitable foundation is close to being the world's largest after he and his wife donated another $5bn (pounds 3bn).
> 
> The Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation has now overtaken all others in America, and rivals Britain's Wellcome Trust. The Microsoft boss looks set to be remembered as the world's greatest philanthropist, whatever judgement history passes on his business methods.
> 
> ...


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/worlds-richest-man-to-be-its-leading-philanthropist-1114621.html

I don't think he made his fortune by "stolen ideas" either.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2009)

pk said:


> Adobe fucking hate Microsoft, they can't wait to get off the Windows OS.


Source please. Thanks.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 4, 2009)

editor said:


> I don't think he made his fortune by "stolen ideas" either.


 
Most of what he has done was already done by others, he just sold it/licenced it better. DOS and Windows were not really his original ideas I don't think.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 4, 2009)

editor said:


> I don't think he made his fortune by "stolen ideas" either.



Gates' philanthropy is to be admired. For that, he's a saint.

However, the very roots of Microsoft's success are in rather dodgy soil. MS-DOS was not written by Microsoft and was a re-badged version of a competitor's product. It was all above board, but not exactly squeaky clean.


----------



## pk (Feb 4, 2009)

editor said:


> Source please. Thanks.



My pleasure.

Microsoft’s recent moves have clearly earned the ire of Bruce Chizen (Adobe CEO), who said it’s become clear that Microsoft would be thrilled if Adobe would just disappear. 

It’s at the point where Chizen doesn’t like buying Microsoft software at all. 

“I hate writing the check to Microsoft,” Chizen said bluntly. “I would love to get off Microsoft Office.”

http://bigtech.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2007/04/30/bad-blood-between-adobe-and-microsoft/


----------



## tarannau (Feb 4, 2009)

editor said:


> Very, very poor comparison there, mate. Bill Gates may be filthy stinking obscenely rich but there's a big difference compared to most rich cunts: he's also the one of the world's greatest philanthropists, giving away billions of his earnings.
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/worlds-richest-man-to-be-its-leading-philanthropist-1114621.html
> 
> I don't think he made his fortune by "stolen ideas" either.



I'm not sure that you can portray his efforts at giving away some of the excess profits from his company's monopolistic anti-competitive behaviour as entirely creditable to be honest. There are significant tax breaks available and at times Gates's charity seems to have aided his business - notably when the Indian Govt withdrew a plan to use Linux as the govt default shortly after Bill's visit to donate 100m to Indian HIV charities, also coinciding with a remarkable round of palm-greasing and some hefty MS discounts on licencing.

It's good that he donates and it's a whopping fund, but I'm not convinced there's entirely an altruistic motive there.


----------



## pk (Feb 4, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Gates' philanthropy is to be admired. For that, he's a saint.
> 
> However, the very roots of Microsoft's success are in rather dodgy soil. MS-DOS was not written by Microsoft and was a re-badged version of a competitor's product. It was all above board, but not exactly squeaky clean.



Q-DOS was the original MS-DOS - wasn't it $50000 or something daft he paid for it?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 4, 2009)

$75k. And that was _after_ the release of MS-DOS.


----------



## pk (Feb 4, 2009)

editor said:


> That's not to say that the iPhone isn't becoming an important mobile gaming platform, but until it's as cheap, as affordable and as user friendly for gaming as the DS, it's got a fair way to go yet.



One could just as easily say "the DS is becoming an important mobile phone platform, but until it's as cheap, as affordable and as user friendly for making phone calls and surfing the net and retrieving emails as the iPhone, it's got a fair way to go yet".


----------



## pk (Feb 4, 2009)

Crispy said:


> $75k. And that was _after_ the release of MS-DOS.



So he stole it, effectively, repackaged it, flogged it to IBM for megabucks, then quickly and quietly bought it from the person he stole it from once the ink was dry on the deal for a paltry sum of money, before the original owner of Q-DOS found out what he'd done!



Way to go Mr Philanthropic Stinky Rich Person!


----------



## Crispy (Feb 4, 2009)

He didn't steal. It was properly licensed under the original terms of the PC-DOS license. Shortly before the launch of MS-DOS (correcting my mistake upthread), they started worrying about that license and so went to court to buy the rights outright. THe original author then came to work for MS and finished off the work on MS-DOS.

So, no theft, but no purely original creation either


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2009)

Crispy said:


> He didn't steal. It was properly licensed under the original terms of the PC-DOS license. Shortly before the launch of MS-DOS (correcting my mistake upthread), they started worrying about that license and so went to court to buy the rights outright. THe original author then came to work for MS and finished off the work on MS-DOS.
> 
> So, no theft, but no purely original creation either


Indeed. PK should get his facts straight.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2009)

tarannau said:


> It's good that he donates and it's a whopping fund, but I'm not convinced there's entirely an altruistic motive there.


Really? So what do you think was the _real_ motive was for him quitting his full time job at Microsoft and committing full-time to the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, described as "the largest transparently operated charitable foundation in the world"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Gates


----------



## Crispy (Feb 4, 2009)

In fact, Tim Patterson has worked for MS several times over the last 25 years and AFAIK, bears them no ill will.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2009)

Crispy said:


> In fact, Tim Patterson has worked for MS several times over the last 25 years and AFAIK, bears them no ill will.


Well, that's _that_ particular claim of pk's put to bed then.


----------



## pk (Feb 4, 2009)

editor said:


> Well, that's _that_ particular claim of pk's put to bed then.



If - as Crispy has corrected himself - MS-DOS was released after the purchase of Q-DOS then it's still sneaky, but I was going on Crispy's earlier statement, and even then I gave a supposition rather than a fact.


----------



## pk (Feb 4, 2009)

No comment about the Adobe problem that might turn into a massive headache for Microshite then??

Especially as I fetched you links and all...


----------



## pk (Feb 4, 2009)

editor said:


> Indeed. PK should get his facts straight.



No. In this case it was Crispy that got his facts wrong, regarding the order in which Q-DOS and MS-DOS were released. Which he then corrected.

By your own bizarre criteria of "proof" you can see that quite clearly from the last page of this thread.

God forbid anyone judging YOU as strictly as you judge everyone elses info!

I don't believe you're as up on Microsoft/Apple industry as you would like to be... so be careful!


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2009)

pk said:


> No comment about the Adobe problem that might turn into a massive headache for Microshite then??
> 
> Especially as I fetched you links and all...


That article is two years old and reads no different to any other company dispute. 

Rather like this _far more recent _story:


> The real reasons for Jobs' dissing of Flash *may be a history of bad blood between Adobe and Apple...*



_Feel_ the pwnage!

http://www.thestreet.com/s/apples-f...alysis/techsoftware/10406400.html?puc=_tscrss


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2009)

pk said:


> God forbid anyone judging YOU as strictly as you judge everyone elses info!
> 
> I don't believe you're as up on Microsoft/Apple industry as you would like to be... so be careful!


You're really make an arse of yourself here, but keep on blustering away.



> But it's all still there, barely under the surface: the inner children of Adobe and Apple still sulking, arms crossed, in their respective corners.
> 
> This tension is evident in all dealings between Apple and Adobe. It's the thing left unsaid as minor disagreements take on an extra edge of animosity. Imagine thought bubbles below all the actual spoken text in a corporate comic strip. Apple: "You didn't want my new API. I was in trouble. I needed your help and you rejected me." Adobe: "You wanted me to risk everything for you. Though I wanted to help, I just couldn't afford to do it, and now you have the nerve to be mad about it. I give and I give but you always want more...
> 
> ...


Anyway, all this has got fuck all to do with iPhones....


----------



## pk (Feb 4, 2009)

editor said:


> You're really make an arse of yourself here, but keep on blustering away.
> 
> Anyway, all this has got fuck all to do with iPhones....



There's no denying the constant riffs between them all... but it is relevant to the iPhone stuff - it's all about the Flash.

First company to deliver easy swift Flash delivery over 3G gets the win.

Even if the handsets are shit. Adobe can do it, it all comes down to codecs and proprietary ownership. Fucking pathetic really.

But this stuff does wind me up because it's my job and all that.

I don't give a fuck about Apple or Microsoft as long as I get the shit I need, and their petty squabbling might be staving off a monopolisation of technology standards but it's holding back progress in the area of TV delivery to handhelds.


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2009)

Here's more info on the French legal challenge:


> France Telecom is not in a good place right now. Imagine the time, negotiations and bags of money resources it took to score iPhone 3G exclusivity on Orange for a five-year term all to see things evaporate thanks to the scrappy Bouygues Telecom.
> 
> Appealing to the Competition Council, Bouygues contested that this exclusivity agreement seriously undermined competition in the mobile space due to the excessive length of the agreement. Despite obvious opposition from both France Telecom and Apple, the Competition Council concurred and decided in December to cap such exclusive agreements at a substantially abbreviated three months. Body blow!
> 
> ...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 9, 2009)

Yawn.

Anyway, I absolutely love my iPhone. I still had reservations when I placed my order whether I really would get the use out of it, but they were without foundation.

I use it loads. Get plenty of use out of the email and web, spend far too much time on Twitter because of it. Love the apps I've got, always looking for more. Got terribly hooked on Bejewelled for a while, now starting with Aurora Feint. 

All in all, it's a great tool for me. It's great being so much more connected than I ever was before. I have to coordinate a handful of people who aren't always that reliable, and knowing I've got several ways to leave them messages, whether I'm stuck on a bus, lying in bed, or sat watching telly is fab. Sure, plenty of people do all that with other smartphones, but this one suits me fine.

There are things that aren't as great as I'd like. I have missed the ability to c&p, although it's easy enough to get around so isn't a dealbreaker. I wish I could MMS, but again, I'm not going to throw my toys out the pram because of it. It's annoying I can't use the last.fm app in the background, but I've got a bunch of my music on there now anyway, so it's not a huge problem. Sometimes safari is buggy (despite the latest software release), but it's not a huge problem, again. 

Anyway, it's all horses for courses, isn't it. I'm happy as a pig in shit with it


----------



## editor (Feb 9, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Yawn.


I was just reporting on what has been deemed anti-competitive business practices by Apple and France Telecom, with an outcome that may benefit all consumers in the future

Sorry if you find it all so dull and boring, but you do realise that I certainly wasn't knocking the iPhone or its capabilities, yes? All things considered, it's way better than my current phone, although it has some really frustrating caveats,


----------



## Sunray (Feb 9, 2009)

editor said:


> I was just reporting on what has been deemed anti-competitive business practices by Apple and France Telecom, with an outcome that may benefit all consumers in the future
> 
> Sorry if you find it all so dull and boring, but you do realise that I certainly wasn't knocking the iPhone or its capabilities, yes? All things considered, it's way better than my current phone, although it has some *really frustrating caveats*,



Oh yes, lack of cut and paste just recently has started to irritate me.


----------



## editor (Feb 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Oh yes, lack of cut and paste just recently has started to irritate me.


I really do use it every day. I use my Centro for a lot of email and I'm always copying stuff to/from SMSs/web pages/note taking apps. It seems weird how they still havent sorted it out - just about everyone else does it, so how hard can it be?

Mind you, Centro's bog standard browser has really started to bug the hell out of me recently too.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 9, 2009)

You come up with all that technology that cut and paste should be a trivial after thought.  

I sit in hope.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2009)

editor said:


> Mind you, Centro's bog standard browser has really started to bug the hell out of me recently too.



Tell me about it, the random 'I wont load for no discernible reason' crap pisses me off. 

Had a play with a mates iPhone the other night and just felt like I was stuck in 1999 phone wise. The Pre can't come soon enough!


----------



## editor (Feb 10, 2009)

Chuq von Rospach, an ex-Apple employee of some 17 years, has written about his time at the company in this Guardian article.





> *Enjoying the show, avoiding the flamethrower: life inside Apple*
> 
> What's it like working inside Apple when the MacWorld announcements are made? The man who set up many of its email systems and worked there 17 years explains the inside story of the preparation, the unveiling – and why it's sometimes best to avoid Steve Jobs.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/jan/02/apple-macworld-lookback


He's now moved to Palm, btw.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 11, 2009)

editor said:


> I was just reporting on what has been deemed anti-competitive business practices by Apple and France Telecom, with an outcome that may benefit all consumers in the future
> 
> Sorry if you find it all so dull and boring, but you do realise that I certainly wasn't knocking the iPhone or its capabilities, yes? All things considered, it's way better than my current phone, although it has some really frustrating caveats,



Dude, I didn't even read it all - can't be bothered with all the to-ing and fro-ing that goes on in this thread. By you or anyone else, on either side of any argument/opinion/stance/etc. That's all the yawn meant.


----------



## editor (Feb 11, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Dude, I didn't even read it all - can't be bothered with all the to-ing and fro-ing that goes on in this thread. By you or anyone else, on either side of any argument/opinion/stance/etc.


It wasn't an argument or a 'stance' - I was just reporting an important business development.


----------



## editor (Feb 13, 2009)

If you want to see what kind of video a jailbroken iPhone can make, take a look here:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/13/celebrity-nerds-ashton-kutcher-jailbreaks-his-iphone-fends-off/

It's pretty awful.


----------



## editor (Feb 13, 2009)

Apple says that jailbreaking iPhones is "illegal."



> For the first time ever, Apple has said publicly that jailbreaking iPhones is illegal. In comments filed with the US copyright office, Apple says that jailbreaking is copyright infringement and a violation of the DMCA.
> 
> Every three years, the US Copyright Office has a rulemaking session for the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, where exemption requests can be filed. For the 2009 session, the Electronic Frontier Foundation filed an exemption request for jailbreaking iPhones for the purposes of interoperability with independent software—i.e., apps not in the App Store.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Feb 13, 2009)

editor said:


> If you want to see what kind of video a jailbroken iPhone can make, take a look here:
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/13/celebrity-nerds-ashton-kutcher-jailbreaks-his-iphone-fends-off/
> 
> It's pretty awful.



Thats a lot better than I thought it would be, but its not exactly a feature I am exactly missing. I have a Digicam for that.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2009)

Breaking news!

CNET News.com is reporting that the iPhone fart app maker is taking another to court over trademark infringement accusations about the use of the phrase "Pull My Finger".

There's now over *75* flatulence simulation apps for the iPhone (!) so there's clearly a market for this nonsense.

The court case should be fun!


----------



## editor (Feb 15, 2009)

A bunch of Jocks are suing Apple over their screen technology:





> a small Scottish company is suing Apple over claims it has illegally used its technology in the iPhone.
> 
> Glasgow-based Picsel has taken Apple to task in the US District Court in Delaware, saying its image-rendering technology forms a substantive part of the way the iPhone updates its screen.
> 
> ...


----------



## dweller (Feb 15, 2009)

editor said:


> A bunch of Jocks are suing Apple over their screen technology:



I'm not normally in favour of these kinds of things, 
but, 
apple are so smug and patent greedy that I really hope this small Scottish 
 firm stick it up them!


----------



## editor (Feb 16, 2009)

Bad news for iPhone users:





> Flash 10 coming to most smartphones in 2010
> 
> BARCELONA--A full-fledged version of the Adobe Flash player is coming soon to a whole slew of smartphones. Unfortunately, Apple's iPhone isn't one of them.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Feb 16, 2009)

I am looking at June for both a  an iPhone nano (maybe), a new iPhone and v3 of the iPhone software to address more than a few of these.

This has been Apples way of things or recent times.   I think they use the update feature for bugs and minor features and rather than drip drip new features, they save them all up and release them at a new product launch.  This does generally help with both quality (QA has a lot longer to test it) and gives them some fireworks with a new device.

I live in hope, or I might well decamp to a Pre.


----------



## editor (Feb 23, 2009)

Rejected! 10 iPhone Apps That Didn't Make Apple's App Store - including one from South park!


> 4. The South Park App
> 
> If anyone's accustomed to battling censorship, it's "South Park" creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone. The same guys who made The Guinness Book of World Records for squeezing 399 cuss words into a single movie have just given up their fight to get into the App Store.
> 
> "After a couple of attempts to get the application approved, we are sad to say that our app has been rejected," the duo explains. "According to Apple, the content was 'potentially offensive.'" The app would have allowed iPhone users to access episode clips, read South Park news, and grab wallpaper and other South Park-related downloadables. Some of this content, we gather, contains some R-rated words or concepts. But then again so do the South Park episodes Apple already sells in its iTunes store.



http://www.pcworld.com/article/159887/rejected_10_iphone_apps_that_didnt_make_apples_app_store.html


----------



## Kanda (Feb 23, 2009)

Cool, 10 less shit apps cluttering the store


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 28, 2009)

Just saw this over on xda developers.


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Cool, 10 less shit apps cluttering the store


The greeeeeeat news is that you've still got up to 100 'hilarious' flatulence-related apps to choose from on the App Store. Now that's what I call choice!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,494506,00.html


----------



## Kanda (Feb 28, 2009)

The great news is I can now Remote Desktop to my PC from my iphone and Telnet to Linux boxes


----------



## Sunray (Mar 2, 2009)

Kanda said:


> The great news is I can now Remote Desktop to my PC from my iphone and Telnet to Linux boxes



How do you do that then?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 2, 2009)

There are VPN clients, and also telnet and ssh ones. I have been known to ssh to my iMac to tell it to do things when I can't be arsed to get out of bed.

But far more significantly, there is also a game called Zen Bound that involves wrapping objects in string.


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2009)

This is way cool:





> Amazon wasn't kidding when they stated their plans to bring the Kindle ecosystem to other devices, but this is much earlier than I expected. They've just released a Kindle app for the iPhone, and iPod touch. Surprisingly, the app is free, and provides much of the same experience found on the actual Kindle devices.
> 
> With Kindle for iPhone, you can:
> 
> ...


----------



## Kanda (Mar 4, 2009)

editor said:


> This is way cool:



Not available in the UK yet  

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=281957


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Not available in the UK yet
> 
> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=281957


Oops! I didn't think you'd give it a thread of its own!

It's rubbish for me being stuck on a defunct platform right now - there's barely any new software at all and all the action's elsewhere. Roll on the Palm Pre!


----------



## Kanda (Mar 4, 2009)

I put it out as a seperate thread rather than post it in the iPhone and Ereader threads, I couldn't make my mind up 

I really want a Kindle2


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I really want a Kindle2


I can't justify the cost, I'd barely use one and we can't even get them here yet, but they're _highly_ desirable gadgets and I WANT.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2009)

I wouldn't get one until you can load your own files on it


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2009)

Crispy said:


> I wouldn't get one until you can load your own files on it


You can do that now: http://www.download.com/Auto-Kindle-eBook-Converter/3000-10743_4-10907625.html?tag=dl-blog


----------



## Structaural (Mar 4, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> But far more significantly, there is also a game called Zen Bound that involves wrapping objects in string.



Ridiculous. 

2 hours I've been playing with that.


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2009)

Truth be told, the only game I regularly keep on using on my phone is trusty ol' Scrabble.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2009)

I'm utterly addicted to Trism


----------



## Structaural (Mar 4, 2009)

Bejewled 2. sad bastard. and looking forward to Peggle


----------



## Sunray (Mar 6, 2009)

Fstream works over 3G, lets you listen to radio anywhere!

BBC stream addresses are here
http://bbcstreams.com/

How ace is that!


----------



## Sunray (Mar 6, 2009)

Another cool app but its for Mac only.  Grr how useful does 

http://www.appcraver.com/actprinter/

sound.  Being able to print to my iphone.  I'd pay for that.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 6, 2009)

editor said:


> Truth be told, the only game I regularly keep on using on my phone is trusty ol' Scrabble.


 
I never use to play games on my mobile at all.

Now I play Chess with friends, Cookie solitaire, Monopoly, Zynga Live Poker, iShoot lite (I'd buy it if i knew anyone else with an iPhone to play against) and SimCity.

I wasted money on Monkeyball as I don't play it. Its good for impressing people with the gfx but i tire of it quickly.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 6, 2009)

Jaduu has been updated - allows SSL encyption now.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2009)

Here's a great feature for you iPhone boyz:


> 20 cool things to do with your iPhone
> Essential apps to add new functionality to your handset
> 
> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...o-do-with-your-iphone-526058?src=rss&attr=all


*envy


----------



## Badgers (Mar 8, 2009)

The 'Lightsaber Unleashed' app is worth buying an iPhone for alone


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 8, 2009)

I've gotten back into playing Sim City now - it's much more reliable after the updates. It's also, oddly, better than the DS version, though if I could use a stylus to control it that would be ideal. Waking up with a hangover is much more tolerable when you can lie in bed and play Sim City for an hour or two, occasionally dozing.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 8, 2009)

From Xes, how about this, a fully fledged 303,808 and 909 on the phone.
http://www.audiorealism.se/


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2009)

Badgers said:


> The 'Lightsaber Unleashed' app is worth buying an iPhone for alone


It's really not, you know.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 8, 2009)

editor said:


> It's really not, you know.


I find your lack of faith disturbing


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 9, 2009)

The X-Plane 9 flight sim is really bloody impressive.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 9, 2009)

editor said:


> It's really not, you know.



I use it every day. 

At meetings
To chat up women
When my friends surprise attack me
To threaten the bank manager when he won't approve my loan.
Dicing carrots in the kitchen.  

It's helped me more times than I can mention.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 11, 2009)

I look forward to the next gen +1 iPhone having one of these batteries.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7938001.stm

20 seconds you say....


----------



## Crispy (Mar 12, 2009)

Iphone OS 3.0? Gorge yourself on the info-dribble on 17th March
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...ia-to-sneak-peek-of-iphone-30-on-march-17.ars


----------



## paolo (Mar 12, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Iphone OS 3.0? Gorge yourself on the info-dribble on 17th March
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...ia-to-sneak-peek-of-iphone-30-on-march-17.ars



'Pre'-emptive strike.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 12, 2009)

Ooo I look forward to that.  

Hope its backwards compatible with the existing software base. Cut and Paste, MMS, decent SMS tool and everything else I've asked for please.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 12, 2009)

Geared toward the SDK?

That could mean that nope none of the improvements users want to the standard functions will appear. Its all about making extra aps that they can get their cut out of.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 12, 2009)

Marius said:


> Geared toward the SDK?
> 
> That could mean that nope none of the improvements users want to the standard functions will appear. Its all about making extra aps that they can get their cut out of.



Well, if the functionality does not appear there is a choice.


----------



## sumimasen (Mar 13, 2009)

94 pages and no-one has mentioned Cydia?  Are we not allowed to?


----------



## paolo (Mar 13, 2009)

I can't see it because I've not jailbroken.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 13, 2009)

I don't think anyone (on here) has bothered yet, I nearly pwned my phone the other day to get tunes off it but then found that Senuti would do it without a jalbreak so didn't bother. I'm slightly put off by the fact that the guy who works here did it but then borked his phone and had to give it back to his supplier who luckily replaced it.


----------



## sumimasen (Mar 13, 2009)

Me and many of my friends have jailbroken and touchwood it's ALL been resoundingly 'no regrets, bloody glad I did it'.  

As I understand, if the iPhone does go bad, restoring it on iTunes completely removes all evidence of the jailbreak.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 13, 2009)

I do plan on trying it but I've not seen that much worth getting except maybe the video recorder - any recommendations?


----------



## elbows (Mar 13, 2009)

Marius said:


> Geared toward the SDK?
> 
> That could mean that nope none of the improvements users want to the standard functions will appear. Its all about making extra aps that they can get their cut out of.



No. There are certain to be new features for end users in 3.0. 

The mention of the SDK is because the SDK will be talked about, perhaps even released, at the event, because developers generally need to know and develop things in advance of end users. It doesnt mean the SDK is the only thing on the agenda, or that the only new stuff in iphone 3.0 is for developers.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 13, 2009)

Maybe they've finally got Push sorted out...


----------



## sumimasen (Mar 13, 2009)

Structaural said:


> I do plan on trying it but I've not seen that much worth getting except maybe the video recorder - any recommendations?



Cycorder - which you mention

SBsettings - one quick swipe and you can easily toggle Wireless/Bluetooth/3G/Edge/Brightness levels on and off.  Godsend in conserving battery life.  Also a feature so that you can hide icons (who the hell uses 'Stocks'!?)

Winterboard - themes and icons.  Customise with 100s of background pictures and icons and ring/sms tones from movie themes, wildlife, abstract etc  Doesn't sound essential but makes your iphone that little much more personal. eg my kids for wallpaper, and to unlock my phone Bart Simpson on a skateboard!

Categories - too many icons? Put them in Categories icons (e.g Games) to navigate your springboard easier.  

--------------------------------------------------


----------



## sumimasen (Mar 13, 2009)

Forgot, add dTunes to the list.  Free mp3s.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 13, 2009)

O2 have dropped the price of the iPhone 3G, probably to clear stock as they did before the 3G came out.

That would usually indicate that there will be new hardware to follow OS 3.0, though I would imagine Apple will do 3.0 on the existing hardware too.


----------



## paolo (Mar 13, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Maybe they've finally got Push sorted out...



That was binned, last time I read about it. Talk of 'scare factor' post mobile-me cock up, not wanting to be the infrastructure for a potentially monster messaging system.

Still, who knows? The push server idea was good. Maybe too good to deliver on though?


----------



## paolo (Mar 13, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> O2 have dropped the price of the iPhone 3G, probably to clear stock as they did before the 3G came out.
> 
> That would usually indicate that there will be new hardware to follow OS 3.0, though I would imagine Apple will do 3.0 on the existing hardware too.



If your speculation is right, that means new hardware.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 13, 2009)

I wouldn't get too excited about new hardware. Same screen, almost identical size and weight. Maybe more speed and storage. Nothing groundbreaking.


----------



## paolo (Mar 13, 2009)

Crispy said:


> I wouldn't get too excited about new hardware. Same screen, almost identical size and weight. Maybe more speed and storage. Nothing groundbreaking.



Fair point. Storage upgrade is almost a given, 32Gb chips should be shipping in volume by now.

(oh and by the way, how's the Lego  )


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 13, 2009)

Only hardware change I think is really necessary is a better camera with a flash. The current one works okay in good light but isn't much cop in gloomy situations.

More memory would be nice just to so I don't have to be so selective with what music I put on the phone.
Better battery life would be nice but mobile batteries haven't improved much in the past two years, as far as I know.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 13, 2009)

Lego reply is here seeing as that's the thread we started on, and it's got fuck all to do with the iphone!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> O2 have dropped the price of the iPhone 3G, probably to clear stock as they did before the 3G came out.
> 
> That would usually indicate that there will be new hardware to follow OS 3.0, though I would imagine Apple will do 3.0 on the existing hardware too.



New hardware coming fo sho!


----------



## paolo (Mar 14, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Lego reply is here seeing as that's the thread we started on, and it's got fuck all to do with the iphone!



That's me told.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 14, 2009)

Yeah. Ya see the badge, buddy?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Mar 14, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Yeah. Ya see the badge, buddy?


No where near as cool as the alpaca's though.


----------



## sumimasen (Mar 14, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> O2 have dropped the price of the iPhone 3G, probably to clear stock as they did before the 3G came out.
> 
> That would usually indicate that there will be new hardware to follow OS 3.0, though I would imagine Apple will do 3.0 on the existing hardware too.



Is there another link/source to back up this article?  This would seriously be annoying as I've only just spent £95 on one


----------



## Structaural (Mar 16, 2009)

C&P should finally arrive in iPhone 3 OS:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=668310

I don't think I care anymore, just give me backgrounding and a _decent mail client_, so that when the phone rings I don't get chucked out of the app I'm in and I'm tired of having to read certain emails by constantly scrolling left to right, right to left.

I think we'll see a processor upgrade to the next iPhone, they'll have to to compete with Palm and the slow paint-up and sluggish scrolling needs to be improved.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 16, 2009)

sumimasen said:


> Cycorder - which you mention
> 
> SBsettings - one quick swipe and you can easily toggle Wireless/Bluetooth/3G/Edge/Brightness levels on and off.  Godsend in conserving battery life.  Also a feature so that you can hide icons (who the hell uses 'Stocks'!?)
> 
> ...



Nothing amazing there yet, but I might try it for fun/customising. Cheers for the feedback.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 16, 2009)

Structaural said:


> C&P should finally arrive in iPhone 3 OS:
> 
> http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=668310
> 
> ...



Apple have a ARM developers license, they can modify it to their own spec.  Expect a ARM A8/A9 Cortex CPU which runs much faster than the current ARM11 in the iPhone.

Don't care about MMS or CnP but that would be nice if its in there.  More important to me are decent SMS and Email clients.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 16, 2009)

Kevin Rose is at it again claiming the coming iPhone will match or better the Pre: link


----------



## Sunray (Mar 16, 2009)

We will be able to discuss the quality of his predictions in 24hrs time.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 16, 2009)

Incidentally, I don't think I mentioned it before, but iDracula is currently a snip at 59p on the app store (and will go up soon after the latest upgrade, or so they say, though that could just be marketing).

It's a pretty simple game - top-down, walk around, shoot wave after wave of assorted werewolves and ghosts and, er, odd squeaky insect things with legs, get power ups and weapons, until you die - but the graphics are lovely and a game lasts a very convenient amount of time, not too short and not too long. Would be familiar to people who've played the Boxhead flash game series.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 16, 2009)

Sunray said:


> We will be able to discuss the quality of his predictions in 24hrs time.



Indeed we will. No doubt if Apple do anything remotely Pre like the usual fanbois will be up in arms across the net...

Personally I hope they rip the Pre off wholesale, the more phone makers adopt each others good ideas the closer we'll get to that perfect phone!


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Kevin Rose is at it again claiming the coming iPhone will match or better the Pre: link



He said that's what he'd been _told_... he didn't have first hand knowledge. Sounded like he'd been given an extremely unspecific line on that. Could be only half true, or total rubbish.

It does sound like there'll be no video though, the explanation on that sounded more concrete.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Apple have a ARM developers license, they can modify it to their own spec.  Expect a ARM A8/A9 Cortex CPU which runs much faster than the current ARM11 in the iPhone.
> 
> Don't care about MMS or CnP but that would be nice if its in there.  More important to me are decent SMS and Email clients.



I think that's what's in the Pre (processor-wise). 

There's actually an email client up on the app store but I'm convinced Apple let the worst one on as it's pretty buggy. I'd like C&P but I don't want it to affect my double-click zoom.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

I was thinking hold could be modified to be multi touch. Hold brings up the magnifier and a second touch like a quote markes the start/end.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

I have seen mention of an App Store Premium, which I'm assuming would be all the really decent applications moved away from the total scrum of utter shit that is on the App Store.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 17, 2009)

I predict intense hoo-hah over the editorial choices they'll have to make...


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2009)

Opera can't be arsed dealing with Apple's arbitary vetoing on iPhone apps:


> Opera CEO Jon von Tetzchner has said that his company is capable of making a browser for the iPhone, but is unwilling to do so as he says it's too much of a risk.
> 
> The Opera chief has pointed out that the company has spent a long time developing its Opera Mini software for platforms like the BlackBerry, and done so successfully, but it's been forced to baulk at doing the same for Apple's iPhone and iPod Touch.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

Like anyone cares about having Opera Mini on the iPhone.  What a total waste of time that would be.

If it was TomTom or someone then I get annoyed.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

Structaural said:


> I think that's what's in the Pre (processor-wise).
> 
> There's actually an email client up on the app store but I'm convinced Apple let the worst one on as it's pretty buggy. I'd like C&P but I don't want it to affect my double-click zoom.



The Pre has the TI OMAP CPU which is Texas Instruments take on a mobile computing version of the ARM A8 Cortex CPU.  Its got 3d graphics and HD video acceleration and a bunch of other stuff as well as being a CPU.

Apple like TI have a developers licence for the ARM CPU, so if they have the skills in house they can make the CPU to their own specification.  Expect to see this in evidence.  Make hacking the phone a lot harder I expect.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Apple like TI have a developers licence for the ARM CPU, so if they have the skills in house they can make the CPU to their own specification.  Expect to see this in evidence.  Make hacking the phone a lot harder I expect.


It's almost a year since Apple bought PA Semi who were previously involved in StrongARM/XScale, so I'd expect to see something coming from that direction.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 17, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> It's almost a year since Apple bought PA Semi who were previously involved in StrongARM/XScale, so I'd expect to see something coming from that direction.



Or maybe they just wanted Dan Dobberpuhl to work on the ARM for them, as that article suggested 

Interesting stuff, we'll know a bit more tomorrow (or tonight if you can be bothered). Though this is probably just a software event.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 17, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Or maybe they just wanted Dan Dobberpuhl to work on the ARM for them, as that article suggested


$278m is a lot for one guy.

I'd work for them for half that.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

Engadget say it starts in a couple of hours.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

Live blog of the new iPhone stuff here.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 17, 2009)

Ok, so in-app purchase sounds good. Makes demo versions much easier, with a built in 'upgrade to full for £2' button or whatever.

EDIT: Oh, it's useless for that, as Free apps can't access it


----------



## sumimasen (Mar 17, 2009)

This live update link is faster

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/17/live-from-apples-iphone-os-3-0-preview-event/#continued


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

Peer to peer.  Hey, DS style gaming now available!


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

Looks like they have gone from barely working at all to opening the floodgates on the bluetooth front.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 17, 2009)

Let's hope the builtin software takes advantage of that - bluetooth file and contact transfers should be standard



> in-app email, *iPod lib access*, shake API, UI table view, cell styles, highlighted images, core data, nav bars, battery API, audio recorder, locatized collation, proximity sensor, and… *“text selection”*



This means iphone DJ software is possible 

EDIT: And cutnpaste looks likely now


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

Its so limited I keep forgetting that it even has bluetooth.  

All this lovely tech........

no cut and paste.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> no cut and paste.


"Text Selection" is one of the API things listed on the SDK globe slide.
Could be CnP


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Its so limited I keep forgetting that it even has bluetooth.
> 
> All this lovely tech........
> 
> no cut and paste.



API for text selection has been mentioned, so I'm expecting Cut and Paste to come in the second half (i.e. user features).

I'm reaaallly liking what I've seen so far. API access to the library, maps extensibility... (that has me very excited, GIS is a big sideline dev thing for me).

Push notification: Totally the right architecture for messaging stuff. Hope the latency is tight.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 17, 2009)

You still don't get notifications if you're in another app though, and you have to flick through the launcher pages to see all your notifications. Android does this better.


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Crispy said:


> You still don't get notifications if you're in another app though, and you have to flick through the launcher pages to see all your notifications. Android does this better.



Maybe... looked like the text notifications might happen 'anywhere'.

Possibly they'll use the same mechanism for the 'badge' notifications (or whatever they call them) ?

(edit: But some kind of singular 'along-side' mechanism, along the top bar, would have been good though...).


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

Wonder how much the turn by turn maps are going to cost, wonder if they will be on the phone or on a server.  A hybrid perhaps.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

Crispy said:


> You still don't get notifications if you're in another app though, and you have to flick through the launcher pages to see all your notifications. Android does this better.



Yeah you do, the notification system is already in place for Apples stuff right now. Thats why people were moaning.  They couldn't do the same in their applications.

I get SMS's pop up in what ever App I am in now.


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Wonder how much the turn by turn maps are going to cost, wonder if they will be on the phone or on a server.  A hybrid perhaps.



That'll be down to whatever deal developers negotiate with map suppliers, and what implementation they choose. Don't think Apple will have any involvement.


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Diabetic app demo? Oddly worthy but dull choice!


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

Right, get the drum out, keep the beat slow

Cut and Paste
Cut and Paste
Cut and Paste
Cut and Paste
Cut and Paste
Cut and Paste
Cut and Paste

I'd do it to piss them off.

Why are they demo'ing games, there are great games out there, we know.  Multi-player games. Woo.  So NEW, they will be showing us a death match game type like it was a new genre next.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

They are in need of some strong anti-psychotics if they think I am going to buy an in-game item like a rocket launcher for 99c


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> They are in need of some strong anti-psychotics if they think I am going to buy an in-game item like a rocket launcher for 99c


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

I think that Trombone whatever demo must have been a "you had to be there" thing.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

Cut and paste


----------



## Kanda (Mar 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Cut and paste



Finally we can shush Editor


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Aaaaaat last.


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Finally we can shush Editor



He'll still have MMS to go on and on about. 

edit: Spoke too soon. They've added that. No use to me whatsoever, but hey.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Peer to peer.  Hey, DS style gaming now available!



If that's what they have in mind this is a far bigger deal than cnp and mms combined.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> He'll still have MMS to go on and on about.



Nope.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Finally we can shush Editor



Where is he anyway?


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

Woo forward a locaton. I asked for that in the Feedback form.  So simple, so useful.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

96% of all apps approved, kinda undermines the constant complaining on the net by the anti apple brigade about that approval policy...


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Woo forward a locaton. I asked for that in the Feedback form.  So simple, so useful.



Wonder how that's going to work for the recipient. I assume iPhone user will get an integrated clickable thing, and non iPhone will get a text alternative?


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Yay! Spotlight! Now that's really useful. Nowt the pre won't do I'm sure, but all good nonetheless.


----------



## 43mhz (Mar 17, 2009)

Stereo Bluetooth A2DP support


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

> "Now there is one more thing we're doing with maps. We're enabling developers to use core location for turn by turn directions."



TomTom has more cause to worry...


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

43mhz said:


> Stereo Bluetooth A2DP support



The removal of DRM on iTunes is the reason this is now available.  Didn't think it would ever happen.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Wonder how that's going to work for the recipient. I assume iPhone user will get an integrated clickable thing, and non iPhone will get a text alternative?



Probably just a GPS location or perhaps !  Lon/Lat.  Not so useful, perhaps the nearest road name and town that road is in?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

Multi txting, mms, yet more reason for people not to complain. Not seeing anything which compares to the Palm Pre's excellent looking synergy though...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Yay! Spotlight! Now that's really useful. Nowt the pre won't do I'm sure, but all good nonetheless.



Yep.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 17, 2009)

This will be a nice update. Too late, I guess, for the naysayers, but for those who actually have iPhones it's very welcome and will extend functionality nicely.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2009)

So basically, they have finished what they started 2 years ago.  They have tidied up all the blatant flaws that everyone has complained about since they release it.  

It'll be interesting to see what hardware this new release comes on.  Its certainly isn't going to be a default iPhone 3g.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> So basically, they have finished what they started 2 years ago.  They have tidied up all the blatant flaws that everyone has complained about since they release it.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see what hardware this new release comes on.  Its certainly isn't going to be a default iPhone 3g.



Other than synergy there's nothing here anyone can complain about really, the new hardware will probably be things like more storage and a better camera...the iPhone is keeping pace quite well and the Pre will have it's work cut out for it.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 17, 2009)

From engadget:



> ""What about the rest of us? iPhone OS 3.0 will be available this Summer. A free update to all of our iPhone 3G customers. And it works on the original iPhone. Now the hardware has changed between these two devices. For instance, A2DP and MMS won't be available on the iPhone 1st gen. It's also available for the iPod touch... for $9.95."



So it will be available on current 3G models as a free upgrade.


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Good stuff in that for gaming and media playing... I think they're steadily getting further ahead there.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

Yep.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Good stuff in that for gaming and media playing... I think they're steadily getting further ahead there.



Like I said above the gaming side of things is a far bigger deal than cnp or mms. Nintendo and Sony have a serious long term competitor to worry about (only FPSers on your iPhone ffs!  ).

Does the following mean tethering is coming:



> 11:39AM Q: Where do you stand on tethering?
> 
> A: Scott (explains tethering): We're supporting tethering in the client side, we're building that support in. We're working with our carriers around the world. We are building that support in.


----------



## paolo (Mar 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Does the following mean tethering is coming:



Carriers have always been the issue. Apple has been protective towards them on that front. The tech isn't complicated. I'd guess they roll it out once the major markets carrier's have determined how it fits into their tariffs.


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2009)

Well, that was a bit of anti climax with nothing that hasn't already been done elsewhere.


----------



## sumimasen (Mar 17, 2009)

Nothing there to suggest any reason why Apple should cut their phone from £95 as mooted a couple of pages ago.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Well, that was a bit of anti climax with nothing that hasn't already been done elsewhere.



LOL! You complain that it can't do all these things then complain when they add them, poor old Apple can't win!


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! You complain that it can't do all these things then complain when they add them, poor old Apple can't win!


I'm not 'complaining.' I just found that after the big build up, the announcement of the addition of features that most phones have had for years something of an anti climax. Perhaps you found the event riveting and the new features sensationally interesting and innovative, but I expected a little more from the company.

And as for your "poor old Apple" comment.  Jeez. Get a grip, son!


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2009)

It's not just me that's underwhelmed either:


> *Have we been let down by Apple's iPhone 3.0?*
> Opinion: What's the point in releasing a flawed device?
> Was copy and paste worth the wait?
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2009)

That article is stupid to hope for new hardware to be announced today, dont think that was ever sceduled to be on the cards this early in the year. Its quite possible there will be new hardware with better camera and maybe even enough oomph to do flash, announced later this year, time will tell.

As for being underwhelmed by the software announcements, well Im not sure quite what other must-have features there are left to add to iphones now, other than flash & video recoding, which I think will come with more powerful hardware at some point.

A good part of today was always about giving potentially powerful new features to developers. This will lead to some more interesting apps in future, but it wont stop those who want to sneer at the device. Fine, doesnt matter,t hose who enjoy the iphone and its apps are hardly going to be affected by such attitudes, and I really dont care what phone anybody else uses anyway.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

editor said:


> I'm not 'complaining.' I just found that after the big build up, the announcement of the addition of features that most phones have had for years something of an anti climax. Perhaps you found the event riveting and the new features sensationally interesting and innovative, but I expected a little more from the company.
> 
> And as for your "poor old Apple" comment.  Jeez. Get a grip, son!


 
Heh I'm just joshing, the poor old Apple comment was sarcasm against them.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 17, 2009)

I'm really not sure what anyone was expecting if they're disappointed.

I think the tech media have unrealistically high expectations of Apple products. What was announced today is a good set of improvements which existing iPhone users will get for free. What's not to like?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> I'm really not sure what anyone was expecting if they're disappointed.
> 
> I think the tech media have unrealistically high expectations of Apple products. What was announced today is a good set of improvements which existing iPhone users will get for free. What's not to like?



Indeed, that article was a bit idiotic in my view but then some people are just desperate to find a reason to bitch about Apple... 

I'm sure current iPhone users will be happy with the coming update.


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> I'm really not sure what anyone was expecting if they're disappointed.


Well, if Apple see fit to put on a huge show every time, you can't blame people for thinking that something special is coming up to, you know, justify the out-of-proportion  build up.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Well, if Apple see fit to put on a huge show every time, you can't blame people for thinking that something special is coming up to, you know, justify the out-of-proportion  build up.


The "huge show" that was only announced last week and that was an invitation-only event? 

The media goes into feeding frenzy on the smallest piece of Apple PR, speculating that they'll be unveiling the second coming of  the Great Prophet Zarquon.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 17, 2009)

A mate has updated his Facebook: '***** is exstatic the iPhone is about to get better'. He's very happy with the update news, waiting to see what others owners think...


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> The "huge show" that was only announced last week and that was an invitation-only event?


Yes, that'll be the one. The one that Apple invite all the media to. I've _been_ to one of these events and they're hyped to the max.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 18, 2009)

A key thing to keep in mind is Apple are holding back some stuff:



> For iPhone owners, it just keeps getting better. When iPhone OS 3.0 arrives this summer, it will introduce over 100 new features, including the ability to:
> 
> 
> Search your iPhone
> ...



More to come, wonder if this will be slight tweaks or if they're playing cat and mouse with Palm?


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> A key thing to keep in mind is Apple are holding back some stuff:


They certainly held cut and paste back long enough, and maybe they're holding back _really_ advanced features like video recording for even longer. 

Heck, they might even pull background multi-tasking, unified email/messaging and a decent notification system out of the bag by the end of the year too!

Oh, and here's all the other stuff they're (ahem) "holding back" on: http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/03/17/iphone-os-30/


----------



## Sunray (Mar 18, 2009)

editor said:


> They certainly held cut and paste back long enough, and maybe they're holding back _really_ advanced features like video recording for even longer.
> 
> Heck, they might even pull background multi-tasking, unified email/messaging and a decent notification system out of the bag by the end of the year too!
> 
> Oh, and here's all the other stuff they're (ahem) "holding back" on: http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/03/17/iphone-os-30/



Heh, so not very much then!  What's wrong with the notification system?

I'm very happy with the additional functionality, as I've said it fixes just about every complaint I have with the phone.  I can't really think of much else that I want in this device that software can bring.  Faster CPU would be good.   More memory always good.

Need to see the email client to see how much thats improved.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 18, 2009)

It's interesting they cite battery as an issue for not having background stuff. The Pre has the same battery as the Centro which is utter shit for even moderate use ime. Going to be very interesting how both compare on battery life vs functionality.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm chuffed with update. We moaned and for ages whilst it looked like Apple ignored us.

Now they've got those fixes out of the way they can concentrate resourses on really new stuff.
Software wise I've got everything I wanted now.


----------



## paolo (Mar 18, 2009)

Yep, most boxes ticked. By the time it ships, you could have been waiting two years for a decent device, getting all frustrated. Some have been.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 18, 2009)

Well that's a pretty good update, fills a lot of gaps. Nothing too exciting but it wasn't really about that (wait for the new hardware for som eof that) Considering it was especially for developers it was nice to have a few fixes for us. But over 1000 new APIs for developers is superb for future apps, good that they're allowing a bit more under-the-hood access too. 

Chuffed with the email improvements and cut and paste.

Things I still miss: (I couldn't care less about flash other than not being able to watch loads of videos online) I still think they should have allowed backgrounding. If I want my phone to run like a quadra 600 running system 7 and run out of battery in 2 hours then that should be up to me. 
Some sort of integrated IM in lieu of backgrounding - I can't believe they haven't even implemented iChat (not that I use that).

Well the iPhone will continue to own (if only by the sheer amount of decent apps, that'll be Pre's problem, no apps or crappy java apps only) and no doubt a new iPhone will be out later in the year. If Palm don't pull their finger out then the Android will be the only other contender.


----------



## g force (Mar 18, 2009)

Fixing gaping flaws is to be welcomed...now if only it wasn't on pigging O2 i'd consider it a viable handset.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Well the iPhone will continue to own (if only by the sheer amount of decent apps, that'll be Pre's problem, no apps or crappy java apps only) and no doubt a new iPhone will be out later in the year. If Palm don't pull their finger out then the Android will be the only other contender.


My Palm 650 ran IM messaging in the background without any noticeable masaive battery drain and I agree with you: it should be up to the user if they want to cane their battery into dust with zillions of apps open. I guess the real problem with the iPhone is that you can't just pop in a new battery when you're out.

I also agree that Palm has got no chance of catching up with the iPhone when it comes to apps, although it has to be said an awful lot of the programs available on the iPhone are utter shit. I can see Apple running away with the gaming market too, but that's not such a big thing for me.

That said, some of the built in software that comes with the Pre looks streets ahead of the iPhone and for some folks the multitasking will make it a far more productive device.


----------



## maldwyn (Mar 18, 2009)

A bit irritated Ipod-touch owners have to pay $10 for the upgrade!


----------



## Crispy (Mar 18, 2009)

It's so that Apple can hide their R&D costs. They _say_ it's due to accounting law, which is true, but only because they choose to pass the R&D cost on to the consumer rather than declare it in their accounts. Can't have people make purchasing decisions based on what they're working on new versons of!


----------



## Sunray (Mar 18, 2009)

I'm trying to think of something more I want for this device now that my main gripes are to be addressed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 18, 2009)

Better camera and more storage (the second being a deal breaker for me as I've more content than the current iPhone allows for). The Palm Pre is my intended next phone mainly because of synergy but if Apple can up the storage I'd seriously consider it as I'm after convergence too (my four year old 4gen iPod is in it's final days)...


----------



## Structaural (Mar 18, 2009)

editor said:


> That said, some of the built in software that comes with the Pre looks streets ahead of the iPhone and for some folks the multitasking will make it a far more productive device.



That's what I like about the Pre - it does all the nuts and bolts stuff (the stuff you use all the time) very well. 
But I think they should think about making some sort of C based SDK for the long-run, after all it's got the meanest smartphone processor out there with built graphics and 3d functionality.


----------



## sumimasen (Mar 18, 2009)

The weekly Money Saving Expert email is speculating that the iPhone 8GB will become free in May.  Is this because with the upgrade at the same time Apple will release it in a new phone?


----------



## Kanda (Mar 18, 2009)

Of course this is a decent announcment.

If this were Nokia or Sony or whoever, you'd probably have to get the latest Nxxxx rather than a free OS upgrade.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 18, 2009)

Yep, there's a link a few pages back about O2 going to drop prices soon to clear out stock ready hardware in June...


----------



## Sunray (Mar 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Better camera and more storage (the second being a deal breaker for me as I've more content than the current iPhone allows for). The Palm Pre is my intended next phone mainly because of synergy but if Apple can up the storage I'd seriously consider it as I'm after convergence too (my four year old 4gen iPod is in it's final days)...



I can't imagine carrying two devices now and I'm surprised you do.  Expect a 32Gb version, no brainer for Apple, the iTouch has had that for yonks.  Perhaps a version that has removable storage, now that DRM has passed, that might be the next thing.


I'm hoping for Faster CPU more than anything in the new phone, its a little sluggish at times but not something that pisses me off, just not quite up to the mark.


They may well pull out something really nice that nobody is expecting.

Perhaps a Premium app store for things like Maps and stuff.  This might well be there for larger developers who want to negotiate something different to the Apple 30% cut and have the app to back it up with, like TomTom for instance.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 18, 2009)

I carry two because the iPhone wasn't up to scratch (I purposely bought the Centro as I wanted a cheap but decent smartphone), it is now but the Pre is looking better in the smartphone department...

I'm going to wait till July and buy one of em.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 19, 2009)

video on cut and paste - not quite there yet:

http://i.gizmodo.com/5174053/iphone-30-beta-os-walkthrough-video


----------



## Sunray (Mar 19, 2009)

Structaural said:


> video on cut and paste - not quite there yet:
> 
> http://i.gizmodo.com/5174053/iphone-30-beta-os-walkthrough-video



A bit irrelevant really.  I have to say that Apple's QA team do a sterling job with the quality of the software over all.  Apart from the odd safari crash, generally my phone has been very reliable indeed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 19, 2009)

Excellent news: iPhone 3.0 Lifts 10MB Over-the-Air Download Cap For Podcasts


----------



## Sunray (Mar 19, 2009)

Pretty certain that I don't want to download a 60Mb podcast over 3G


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 19, 2009)

True but it'd be nice to be able to d/l a 12mb one.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 19, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I'm hoping for Faster CPU more than anything in the new phone, its a little sluggish at times but not something that pisses me off, just not quite up to the mark.



We could be in for something quite special if any of this gets into the new phone along with the better processor:

 multi-core embedded graphics chip

There was a long article in a recent Edge magazine with an iPhone guy from Apple, they're really pushing the gaming aspect (for once in Apple's life


----------



## elbows (Mar 19, 2009)

Well its a reasonably safe bet that the next iphone will be more powerful, and that video and perhaps background processes will be delivered.

But its pretty unclear whether they will add adobe flash support even if the device is powerful enough, as developer control freakery and seeking to promote safari features & their own apple multitouch user interface concepts, are other reasons they may avoid adding flash support.

As for adding support for removable memory, there are a number of reasons they probably dont like going down that route:

They want you to pay more for models with more built in storage
They want you to use itunes to manage stuff on the device
They dont tend to bother with memory card readers on their computers either
They may fear misuse of memory stick contents as a potential way to make it easy to crack the device in some way.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 19, 2009)

No background processes - this has already been dismissed by apple.


----------



## elbows (Mar 19, 2009)

Crispy said:


> No background processes - this has already been dismissed by apple.



I dont write it off completely because its the sort of thing they might hype up during launch of new hardware, and the stuff the other day was only about software.


----------



## paolo (Mar 19, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Excellent news: iPhone 3.0 Lifts 10MB Over-the-Air Download Cap For Podcasts



Cool. Useful for me.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 19, 2009)

I was thinking about background processing and then I was puzzled by it.  

Windows NT is designed to have as many processes and threads as you like.  You can create 1 million threads if you like.  As long as none of them are require to do anything none of them will get a cpu cycle.   That takes up 0 power.  Clearly each would require the thread context to be set up but thats a one off and more a  memory issue.

Its only things like sound and IM that require the process to run in the background, the rest suspend would do.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 19, 2009)

elbows said:


> I dont write it off completely because its the sort of thing they might hype up during launch of new hardware, and the stuff the other day was only about software.


But they specifically denied it, said it wasn't the way Apple wanted to do backgrounding and notifications - for battery life reasons - and then demonstrated their alternative. And if it was going to happen, there would be clues and pointers to it in the current 3.0 SDK release. I really think you're getting your hopes up here


----------



## elbows (Mar 19, 2009)

Yeah you may be right, although Im not really getting my hopes up as I dont actually use any apps on the iphone which would benefit much from staying in the background, so personally the lack of that capability doesnt bother me.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 19, 2009)

^^  boo

Oh well, anyway - a good look at the 6 main Mobile OSs:

link/


----------



## editor (Mar 20, 2009)

You can get the iPhone from O2 for free now, but only if you commit to a mighty two year contract and forking out £34.26 per month for the 8GB and a hefty £44.05 got the 16GB.

That adds up to a fairly whopping £822.24 and £1.057.20 respectively.
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...ree-on-low-cost-deals-586873?src=rss&attr=all


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 20, 2009)

24 months? Fuck that!


----------



## Sunray (Mar 20, 2009)

Two years!

The 3g will be out of contract in 10 months time, so expect them to start being available on ebay unlocked in quantity then.  Dunno how much they will go for given that the new one will be well out by then.  Once the v3 is out and fully stable, its a truly superb phone.

I now have no doubt that I will own the 3rd gen version but I'm going get it out of contract rather than tie myself into another long one.  I'm happy with this contract though its a bit more than I wanted to pay.  I'll just roll it out on a month to month basis.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 20, 2009)

surely that'll depend on the extent of hardware improvements in v3? if the differences are small, may as well hang on to your v2 with 3.0 on it.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 20, 2009)

Crispy said:


> surely that'll depend on the extent of hardware improvements in v3? if the differences are small, may as well hang on to your v2 with 3.0 on it.



Obviously if all they do is up the memory and give me some new colours then, no I'm not going to rush out and spend 500 quid on a nice shade of pink.

If they give me a ARM Cortex A8/A9 + 32Gb + new thingamajig I can't understand how I lived without it for all these years then yes I will go out and spend.


----------



## sumimasen (Mar 20, 2009)

editor said:


> You can get the iPhone from O2 for free now, but only if you commit to a mighty two year contract and forking out £34.26 per month for the 8GB and a hefty £44.05 got the 16GB.
> 
> That adds up to a fairly whopping £822.24 and £1.057.20 respectively.
> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...ree-on-low-cost-deals-586873?src=rss&attr=all



What a pisstake!  So comparing that to buying now for nearly a £100, you save over £100 in the long-run!


----------



## Sunray (Mar 20, 2009)

I just thought of a really nice touch that would be very cool. 

A fully OLED display like the new Sony media player.  They are much lower power and that couple with a new lower power faster CPU would be the mutts nuts and have my 3G on ebay quicker than Speedy Gonzales on meth.


----------



## paolo (Mar 20, 2009)

OLEDs - drool worthy though they are - were eye-wateringly expensive still last time I looked. How much is that Sony player? What res?


----------



## Sunray (Mar 21, 2009)

No pricing on that player yet, X1000 with its 432x240 screen so has to be a bit higher but that is exactly the sort of thing that Apple would do with it if they can.


----------



## paolo (Mar 21, 2009)

Sunray said:


> No pricing on that player yet, X1000 with its 432x240 screen so has to be a bit higher but that is exactly the sort of thing that Apple would do with it if they can.



My guess is they won't do it. Too ahead... (monster pricey rather than 'a bit pricey').

Would love a (decently) faster processor though. Rendering is currently, I think, best one can get, but I'd like faster. Think we're agreed on that.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 21, 2009)

I can't believe that Sony would make a unit that would be fantastically more expensive than the iTouch which that device is competing with.


----------



## editor (Mar 21, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 96% of all apps approved, kinda undermines the constant complaining on the net by the anti apple brigade about that approval policy...


Depends if you're one of the 4% or not - if that is indeed the true figure.

This company are still waiting for a regal Yay/Nay six months after asking Lord Jobs if their app was worthy enough to be included in the App Store along with the 75+ fart apps and the tit wobbling one. I can't think of any other mobile platform that makes developers jump through so many hoops. Can you?

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...iphone-app-work-after-long-approval-delay.ars


----------



## Sunray (Mar 21, 2009)

They invented the App store and those hoops, so the answer is clearly no because they are the 1st.  The rest of the world is following suit in a 'why didn't we think of that' panic.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2009)

editor said:


> Depends if you're one of the 4% or not - if that is indeed the true figure.
> 
> This company are still waiting for a regal Yay/Nay six months after asking Lord Jobs if their app was worthy enough to be included in the App Store along with the 75+ fart apps and the tit wobbling one. I can't think of any other mobile platform that makes developers jump through so many hoops. Can you?
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...iphone-app-work-after-long-approval-delay.ars



I can't see why they'd choose a specific figure like 96 and it be a lie....


----------



## paolo (Mar 21, 2009)

Ah yes, that's what they *want* you to think. See? See how they do it?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Ah yes, that's what they *want* you to think. See? See how they do it?


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2009)

Sunray said:


> They invented the App store and those hoops, so the answer is clearly no because they are the 1st.  The rest of the world is following suit in a 'why didn't we think of that' panic.


I don't think many other platforms will be employing Jobsie's control-freak, arbitrary app-rejection system coupled with sole distribution rights myself. Least, I hope not because it sucks.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 22, 2009)

We will see how the Pre's one turns out because that its the 3nd phone to have one 'native', but the 1st closed device.  Clearly having such a system on Android wouldn't make sense.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 22, 2009)

editor said:


> I don't think many other platforms will be employing Jobsie's control-freak, arbitrary app-rejection system coupled with sole distribution rights myself. Least, I hope not because it sucks.



96% of apps are approved....


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2009)

Kanda said:


> 96% of apps are approved....


So they claim. And every one had to go through this process and face delay, rejection or perhaps just a wall of silence. And for what? The 75+ fart apps proves that it's hardly about quality control, and the banning of adult material or just naughty words sucks of corporate morality.

If you think it's OK for a phone manufacturer to retain sole control over app distribution and ban anything that either competes with its own products, is deemed too racy for their tastes or just rubs them up the wrong way, that's fine. I disagree. 

The iPhone is a fantastic phone, but Apple's control freakery sucks.

As an aside, I was on the tube yesterday and a person with the Blackberry Storm was sat next to an iPhone user. Both were fiddling with their phones and it proved an excellent advert for the iPhone's usability over the Storm. The woman with the Storm was bashing the screen like fuck to make it work!


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2009)

Here's a good comment about Apple's practices by the Electronic Frontier Foundation:



> Apple's copyright infringement claim starts with the observation that jailbroken iPhones depend on modified versions of Apple's bootloader and operating system software.
> 
> True enough -- we said as much in our technical white paper describing the jailbreak process. But the courts have long recognized that copying software while reverse engineering is a fair use when done for purposes of fostering interoperability with independently created software, a body of law that Apple conveniently fails to mention.
> 
> ...


Interesting thread here too: Apple, AT&T Won't Let You Buy A New iPhone For 18 Months, Even If You Pay Full Price


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 22, 2009)

Kanda said:


> 96% of apps are approved....



Yeah but if you choose to ignore that then you can continue with the lord jobs narrative to your hearts content...


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah but if you choose to ignore that then you can continue with the lord jobs narrative to your hearts content...


Sorry if you don't think the issue of corporate app censorship on moral grounds or a policy of maintaining sole control over app distribution is   is an important enough issue to discuss.

Best not worry about the 4% then, or stop to consider the potential impact such restrictions might have on the wider picture for consumers in the future. Heck, why not tell the EFF to shut up too!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 22, 2009)

LOL morality and corporations don't go together. The point is your increasingly shrill and school yard characterisations of Steve Jobs. It's boring man, the guy is doing what anyone in his position would do for the interests of his company. He's not Darth Vader!


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's boring man, the guy is doing what anyone in his position would do for the interests of his company. He's not Darth Vader!


Oh well. Best let him get on with it then and never criticise or comment further because it's just 'good business.'


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 22, 2009)

Anyway...enough thread derail.

It looks like video is coming to the iPhone:



> It isn't just hardware. The iPhone 3.0 OS has surprised developers with some additional features that Apple didn't go over at the presentation.  In the Q&A, Apple mentioned that they were working on a tethering solution.  One intrepid user found out that it was already in the iPhone 3.0 OS and could be activated fairly easily.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Mar 22, 2009)

That might well be for the new version of the phone?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 22, 2009)

Sunray said:


> That might well be for the new version of the phone?



That's what I'd assume...


----------



## Tricky Skills (Mar 22, 2009)

OK, I've read and taken in all of the above. Deep breath...

I'm about to buy an iPhone 

Yeah, yeah. The decision has been made, so any advice would be most welcome.

Is it really worth waiting until the new phone in July? As with all technology, if it's good enough for most users now, what will be so cool about the latest version?

I'm going for the 8g model - I've already got a 160g iPod, which is more than adequate for my tunes.

What pricing model should I go for? I'm not a heavy calls / text user. I can also get a third off any deal through work discount. Is it worth buying now before I'm locked into the new 24 month contract?

Thanks


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2009)

In a market of ever diminishing useful new technology, video may be one of the few things left to persuade iPhone users to upgrade to the latest model so I'm not expecting it to be offered in the OS update. There is some talk of the next gen iPhone including video editing which I guess might appeal to some.

TS: if none of the new v3 features are of real use to you (cut and paste/MMS etc) then you'd be best off getting the current model, IMO. It's an excellent phone as it is.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 22, 2009)

Interesting piece about the iPhone's OS 3.0 impact on other mobile platforms here.



> iPhone is on the spotlight once again with the announcement of new software update that’s coming to this summer, or let’s just say the news have cooled down a bit and will be on the rise again when the software update is released (months from now) to users worldwide.
> 
> 
> And as iPhone users are having “itchy update fingers” on to the OS 3.0, how about software developers? With many other mobile platforms out there right now: Windows Mobile, BlackBerry, Symbian, Android and even the upcoming Palm’s webOS™; they are facing a big challenge on which platform they should be supporting. Or instead, should they do like what Scott Austin from Wall Street Journal has said in his article: “…_or should they spend the extra effort and money to make sure the app works across multiple operating systems?”_
> ...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 22, 2009)

TS, with what everyone has said the 8gb will be very cheap (if not free) when the new model comes out, so if you can hold off you'll save yourself some money.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Mar 22, 2009)

> TS: if none of the new v3 features are of real use to you (cut and paste/MMS etc) then you'd be best off getting the current model, IMO. It's an excellent phone as it is.



Yes, that's what I thought - thanks. I'm not really too fussed about video, more interested in audio. I've been loving what users such as Documentally and SE1 have been coming up with using audioboo - podcasting on the fly, great potential.

And so what package, please?

(i) Do I sneak in before the 3rd April new 24 month contract and get an 18 month deal? £29.39 + £96.89 for the phone sounds good. Plus my work discount will bring this down to £19.58. Does this allow me to have unlimited online access whenever I pick up a signal?

(ii) PAYG - After the 12 months of free unlimited data, can you just walk away and ditch the phone? Do you have to give it back?

Mmm - sorry, not at all clear from what I have been reading.

Cheers again.


----------



## paolo (Mar 22, 2009)

All the OS 3.0 stuff announced will work with the current 3G phone.

Yes, data use is unlimited in my experience. I've done 3 gig in a month, no probs.

In terms of holding off or not, worth noting that for the last upgrade, O2 offered very reasonable terms for the upgrade, based on resetting your contract duration. For many it was free, even after a relatively short time of getting started, and you could flog the 2G. eBay price was about 250 quid for a locked O2 8gb.

No idea what the deal will be this time of course.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 22, 2009)

Latest and greatest.  This close to a new update, I'd prolly hold off till its released. I would speculate that it will sit side by site with the 3g rather than take it over.  Perhaps it'll be underwhelming.  

Chances are that the 3g will go down in price.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

*iPhone graphics eclipsing DS and PSP*



> Ngmoco bossman Neil Young has said the iPhone is just as good for playing games on as dedicated handhelds - and even has better graphics.
> 
> Speaking at the Game Developers Conference he said, "[iPhone] is a really good device for playing games. Don't let the haters tell you that it sucks relative to the DS and PSP, because it doesn't.
> 
> ...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 23, 2009)

Well, he _would_ say that. It _is_ a good games device, though, and what makes it more interesting for me is that small games devs can directly compete on it far better than they can on traditional handheld platforms, where basically you have to be a big company to make a cart.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, he _would_ say that. It _is_ a good games device, though, and what makes it more interesting for me is that small games devs can directly compete on it far better than they can on traditional handheld platforms, where basically you have to be a big company to make a cart.



Or pay license fees with all their conditions. The Ed likes to rant about Apple but I reckon he'd have a cardiac arrest if he ever looked into the practices Nintendo uses to get it's own way...


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The Ed likes to rant about Apple but I reckon he'd have a cardiac arrest if he ever looked into the practices Nintendo uses to get it's own way...


Oh, well that makes everything else alright then.

Look, I think the iPhone is a fucking great phone and it has wonderful gaming potential, but Apple are setting some pretty awful precedents for the mobile industry and it concerns me how some people seem dazzled so technology that they're happy to just shrug off these developments.

Or maybe it's me that is out of step and I should just embrace restrictive practices in return for a 'cool'gadget.

Maybe I should just plaster this site in adverts and adopt a "if you can't beat them..." philosophy to while I'm at it..


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

I never said it makes it alright just that Apple aren't alone and singling them out all the time for it is a bit puzzling. Nintendo are well known for just as much if not worse corporate abuse of their market position over the years. 

But anyway, I look forward to the fight between them and Apple over us gamers time and money!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

I'll make a prediction, I can see Apple being a bigger player in the handheld gaming market within a decade than either Ninty or Sony.


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I never said it makes it alright just that Apple aren't alone and singling them out all the time for it is a bit puzzling. Nintendo are well known for just as much if not worse corporate abuse of their market position over the years.


We're talking about phones. Nintendo don't make phones. Nintendo have got nothing to do with mobile phones.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 23, 2009)

Gadget show tonight, iPod Touch beat the PSP and DSI as a gaming device!!!! lolz


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

editor said:


> We're talking about phones. Nintendo don't make phones. Nintendo have got nothing to do with mobile phones.



Christ you're such a literalist! We're talking about whatever we want to talk about and you bang on about Apple yet oddly ignore all the other corporate abuses in the consumer electronics sector...

But anyway...

Like I said Apple are going to pwn mobile gaming.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Gadget show tonight, iPod Touch beat the PSP and DSI as a gaming device!!!! lolz



I've seen almost as many people playing games on their iPhones/touches in the last few months as I have seen DS' or PSPs on the tube...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 23, 2009)

I've not turned my DS on since getting an iTouch. No fumbling about in the bag for cartridges, easy downloading, cheaper games.


----------



## paolo (Mar 23, 2009)

editor said:


> We're talking about phones.



There's a group of companies that take (or will take) 30% from mobile software purchases.

There's another group that typically take 50%.

Any idea who the latter are?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I've not turned my DS on since getting an iTouch. No fumbling about in the bag for cartridges, easy downloading, cheaper games.



If they got a version of Civ for it I reckon I'd buy one in a hot second! It's about the only game I play on my DS these days...



paolo999 said:


> There's a group of companies that take (or will take) 30% from mobile software purchases.
> 
> There's another group that typically take 50%.
> 
> Any idea who the latter are?



Well quite and yet Apple are the evil overlords...


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> There's a group of companies that take (or will take) 30% from mobile software purchases.
> 
> There's another group that typically take 50%.
> 
> Any idea who the latter are?


No idea I'm afraid, but do they retain sole control of app distribution, attempt to brick the handsets of anyone installing non approved software, arbitrarily reject apps, impose their own corporate morality on what can be run on the phone and ban any apps that compete with their own?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

editor said:


> No idea I'm afraid, but do they retain sole control of app distribution, attempt to brick the handsets of anyone installing non approved software, arbitrarily reject apps, impose their own corporate morality on what can be run on the phone and ban any apps that compete with their own?





Perfect description of Nintendo!


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Christ you're such a literalist! We're talking about whatever we want to talk about and you bang on about Apple yet oddly ignore all the other corporate abuses in the consumer electronics sector...


Q. Is this a thread about corporate abuses in the consumer electronics sector?
A. No.

Q. Is this a thread about Apple?
A. Yes.


Kid_Eternity said:


> Like I said Apple are going to pwn mobile gaming.


I'm not sure they're going to 'pwn' the entire mobile gaming market, but they're certainly on course to be a major player, if not the dominant player - all of which should make you concerned about their business practices.





Kid_Eternity said:


> Perfect description of Nintendo!


Why not start a new thread about them if you're so obsessed?


----------



## Kanda (Mar 23, 2009)

editor said:


> Q. Is this a thread about corporate abuses in the consumer electronics sector?
> A. No.



But fella, you're the major culprit for bringing up Apple corporate abuses here. Surely that needs to be balanced by comparisons.

Or do you just run rampant and we don't suggest comparisons?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

Thinking about it, that's one of the most accurate and succinct descriptions of Nintendo. Interestingly there's a good few parrallels between both companies, in terms of their ease of use products, their loyal following, their morality (Ninty are famous for imposing family gaming), they're rigid and aggressive business practices (including how they try to control retail)...gonna be an interesting fight between the two in the gaming sphere.

Oh and Ed this is about Apple and related items, Apple are moving into games, only a fool would discuss that without looking at the implications and comparing them other players. All I've tried to do is broaden your mind out with regard to this.


----------



## paolo (Mar 23, 2009)

editor said:


> No idea I'm afraid


Yep.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

*Apple rumor: AT&T excited about new iPhone?*

Heh can a phone network actually get excited about something?



> From the not-all-that-surprising-department, Apple's exclusive U.S. partner for the iPhone, AT&T, is said to be tickled about an upcoming release of the iPhone that will be faster and add some AT&T-developed features, such as a U-Verse application. As most people expect, the new iPhone is expected to arrive some time around June, and is turning into "an annual tradition."


----------



## paolo (Mar 23, 2009)

U-Verse?

e2a: Wiki linky: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-verse


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

Yep I was a bit  about that...


----------



## paolo (Mar 23, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep I was a bit  about that...



Having just scanned the Wiki entry, could be - in terms of the iPhone implementation - almost anything. Not for us though, so carevalue=low.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 23, 2009)

Ah well...

This looks like it could be cool, a GTA style game for the iPhone/touch:


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2009)

paolo999;8912523]Yep.[/quote]Any chance of you just making your point? Ta.[quote=Kanda said:


> But fella, you're the major culprit for bringing up Apple corporate abuses here. Surely that needs to be balanced by comparisons.


 If you're looking for a 'balanced' discussion then let's talk about how other mobile platforms, manufacturers and networks operate.

If you and others suddenly want to start banging on about Nintendo's business practices, then perhaps you'd best start a separate thread in the gaming forum and I'll contribute if I have anything to say on the matter.

As it is, I don't know much about their practices and haven't a great deal of interest in them right now, but if you say they're evil bastards, I'm happy to take your word for it.

Can we get back to phones now please?


----------



## Sunray (Mar 24, 2009)

Its reasonably relevant.  The DS is something I can buy but not install software thats non Nintendo approved.  I can but I have to hack the device.  

What Apple have done is to take that very business model and apply it to their mobile phone.  Nobody has done that before and its caused a lot of people to question the model.

Is it a bad thing?  I am still sitting on the fence.  On the one hand, yes I would like to install anything I like on the phone. 
On the other, has their Stazi like control policy really effected me?  The phone is a joy to use. There are some cracking apps out there now, so I don't think it has effected me in general.  I understand that that policy is there and I have to endure it if I want this phone. The control they apply does make me pause for thought and niggles but I can't see myself changing to another phone while the one I have is so polished and about to get even shinier. 

 If it becomes a real issue for what ever reason, then I can buy a Palm Pre.  Look pretty decent to me, just needs a virtual keyboard.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2009)

Interesting piece about GDC and Apple's impact on other players in the video games industry:



> Apple's iPhone is changing the way we buy and play handheld games. Small wonder, then, that both Nintendo and Sony are pushing game downloads as the next big thing on their portable players.
> 
> On April 5, Nintendo will launch its DSi hardware in the U.S. The big feature upgrade: Internal flash memory, and a slot for a SD card that will allow users to buy games online. And Sony will be putting much more muscle behind its online game store for the PSP, which has languished.
> 
> ...


Neatly following on from that this piece explores why Apple can beat Nintendo in the handheld gaming market (gaming is going be as big for the iPhone as music is in next decade in my opinion):



> Young said developers should adopt a similar philosophy when making games for Apple's smartphone and utilize things like the iPhone's touch screen, accelerometer, location information, and connectivity to create a great gaming experience.
> 
> "Don't let the haters tell you it sucks compared to the DS or the PSP," Young said of the iPhone as a gaming platform. "It doesn't. It's good. It's clear that the quality of iPhone games is eclipsing its console counterparts, and that's even more acute when you compare it against the prior generation."
> 
> ...


With over 25 years of gaming experience and interest behind me and things like the above you can see why someone like me would take the view that Apple is going to pwn handheld gaming.



> Additionally, gaming on the iPhone will lead to different life cycles and price points that developers need to get used to. For example, Young pointed to his company's game "Rolando," which is scheduled to release three iterations over 11 months with about 40 hours of game play for less than the price of a DS or PSP game. *But this can still be profitable because the App Store distribution model strips away a lot of costs and because of the viral nature of the game.*
> 
> *Young is optimistic that the iPhone 3.0 software will take mobile gaming to the next level. He's particularly interested in its voice-over-IP aspects, peer-to-peer applications, and push-notification system. He showed off the first-person shooter "Livefire," which utilizes multitouch, in-app purchasing, and online multiplayer features.
> 
> "We're at the center of the new everything ... the iPhone has revolutionized everything," * Young said.


Interesting that Apple, even with it's 'restrictive' practices, will be better for the games industry. Perhaps more interesting (especially for me as someone who remembers fondly the era of the bedroom coders which ended I guess with the Amiga days) the iPhone could actually boost indy game developers. It can loosen the grip big publishers have over the industry and actually give small teams a chance to really make some interesting and profitable games. In my view Apple is the lesser of two evils and I welcome their move into gaming as a good thing for the industry.


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Interesting that Apple, even with it's 'restrictive' practices, will be better for the games industry. Perhaps more interesting (especially for me as someone who remembers fondly the era of the bedroom coders which ended I guess with the Amiga days) the iPhone could actually boost indy game developers. It can loosen the grip big publishers have over the industry and actually give small teams a chance to really make some interesting and profitable games.


I'd say it's _way_ too early to make that call. 

Lots of new things have started off with the small guys being able to make the running, only to end up crushed underfoot (or sucked in) as the big boys wrench their big budgets and power around.

I still think this discussion should take place in the  gaming forum, btw.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 24, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Interesting that Apple, even with it's 'restrictive' practices, will be better for the games industry. Perhaps more interesting (especially for me as someone who remembers fondly the era of the bedroom coders which ended I guess with the Amiga days) the iPhone could actually boost indy game developers. It can loosen the grip big publishers have over the industry and actually give small teams a chance to really make some interesting and profitable games. In my view Apple is the lesser of two evils and I welcome their move into gaming as a good thing for the industry.



I'm looking forward to more innovation for games with touch screens. It really suits lots of old PC strategy games which are pants with a joypad, but hopefully we should see new stuff as well. Lemmings on my old touch screen moto was ace.

I'm not sure how well the on screen controls will work for classic style fast paced shooters and the like.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 24, 2009)

editor said:


> I still think this discussion should take place in the gaming forum, btw.


 
Hope you don't mind me asking but why specifically?

The iPhone features:

A Phone
Email
MP3 player
Gaming
Other Aplications
Etc.

Do we need to seperate each of these features out when we want to discuss that aspect of the iPhone and how it compares to its competitors be they other phone manufacturers, sat navs, game devices and any other service the iPhone can duplicate?

It be easier if we could have one generic thread that covered all things iPhone (and related items).


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2009)

Marius said:


> Hope you don't mind me asking but why specifically?
> .


I'd say a discussion about the future of the mobile gaming industry and the business practices of gaming giants Nintendo would be more suited for the, err, gaming forum, rather than in a thread about the iPhone.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 24, 2009)

Edge have done a couple of interesting articles on it all:

game developer talks about how easy it is to distribute etc.. (this may be a repeat of that link Kid_E gave just in a different mag).


Apple Game division VP talks to edge

I met up with a couple of carpenter mates on Sunday for pub lunch, with beer and spliffs, they both sea fish and we ended up playing Flick Fishing for 4 hours (till the batteries died). What a laugh, now one of them wants a iphone, just for that game


----------



## Structaural (Mar 24, 2009)

Last game related post: Metal Gear Solid has a version out on the iPhone  It's not bad.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 24, 2009)

Never saw the attraction of Metal Gear Solid.


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2009)

Amongst all the fantastic and innovative games being developed for the iPhone, there's some really terrifyingly awful shit which must rank as some of the worst games ever made for any mobile platform. I just saw one where you 'blow' into your iPhone to make a balloon which gets made into a rubbish balloon creature. And that's it. It amost makes the fart and tit wobbling apps  look good.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 24, 2009)

60% of iPhone aps are games according to a Beeb article. Unsurprising that you have to shift through the dross to find the gems.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 24, 2009)

editor said:


> Amongst all the fantastic and innovative games being developed for the iPhone, there's some really terrifyingly awful shit which must rank as some of the worst games ever made for any mobile platform. I just saw one where you 'blow' into your iPhone to make a balloon which gets made into a rubbish balloon creature. And that's it. It amost makes the fart and tit wobbling apps  look good.



None of this shit makes it, it never rises to the top at the store. 80% of stuff you never even hear of. Most of the silly stuff is given away free anyway.

Though I'd quite like app you described for my daughter on long train journeys. I've got loads of kids stuff, comes in useful when your kid is going mental at the post office, though the episodes of Dora are most handy.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 24, 2009)

25000 applications of all types to sift through means I can't be bothered most of the time.

I do visit a few review sites occasionally to see if there is anything good there.  I expect better apps to be created once the v3 SDK is fully realised.


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Though I'd quite like app you described for my daughter on long train journeys.


How about the crayons and colouring book app? Or the 'real book' app? They're pretty useful for keeping kids quiet, and the battery life is wonderful.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2009)

Marius said:


> 60% of iPhone aps are games according to a Beeb article. Unsurprising that you have to shift through the dross to find the gems.



Yep. Apple are going to pwn big time in this industry. I think this falls directly under this thread as we're talking about what Apple will or could do with one of it's products.

Like all the other tangents I'm sure this one will subside and we'll move onto another aspect of Apple soon enough...


----------



## Structaural (Mar 24, 2009)

editor said:


> How about the crayons and colouring book app? Or the 'real book' app? They're pretty useful for keeping kids quiet, and the battery life is wonderful.



I knew you were going to say that. 

Too late, she knows I carry a phone with lots of games on it, once the playing, crayon, books and soft toys stop working, she'll be pestering me. But not for long - like you say they're mostly crap apps


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2009)

Structaural;8915634]Too late said:


> Like all the other tangents I'm sure this one will subside and we'll move onto another aspect of Apple soon enough...


Discussing the apps that are available for the iPhone is hardly going off at a tangent.


----------



## Oswaldtwistle (Mar 24, 2009)

Didn't know you had kids, ed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> I'm looking forward to more innovation for games with touch screens. It really suits lots of old PC strategy games which are pants with a joypad, but hopefully we should see new stuff as well. Lemmings on my old touch screen moto was ace.
> 
> I'm not sure how well the on screen controls will work for classic style fast paced shooters and the like.



There's an excellent RTS on the Centro which is on the iPhone (very nice graphics and good fun) which easily is as good as anything on the DS/PSP. I reckon Civ would make a great game for it, they could even do a stripped down version of the Total War series for it too. There's tons of old console games like Desert Strike which I reckon might work...

It'd be great to have my [DS/PSP comparable] handheld console, mobile phone, mp3 and pda with me and it be one easy to use device!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 24, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> There's an excellent RTS on the Centro which is on the iPhone (very nice graphics and good fun) which easily is as good as anything on the DS/PSP. I reckon Civ would make a great game for it, they could even do a stripped down version of the Total War series for it too.



All of these would be ace and might make me interested in mobile gamin again. Turn based stuff like Civ would be great as you could put down and pick it up easily, but still have an epic scale.





			
				Kid_Eternity;8916135There's tons of old console games like Desert Strike which I reckon might work...[/Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> I had a megadrive & snes emulator on my old Motorola A1000 and had a lot of games on a 2gig card! The problem with this sort of gaming on a touch screen is I think it needs to be more tactile. Still an improvement on the terrible controls on most phones for gaming.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 24, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> All of these would be ace and might make me interested in mobile gamin again. Turn based stuff like Civ would be great as you could put down and pick it up easily, but still have an epic scale.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## jæd (Mar 25, 2009)

Unlocked iPhones now available... More at http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/03/uk-site-now-offering-unlocked-iphones-1.ars ... 



> Unlike the contract-free phones from AT&T, which are locked to the carrier's network, the iPhones that Play.com is selling are fully unlocked and should work on any network. Considering the prices the devices are selling for, they had better be. The 8GB and 16GB models are priced at £550 and £600, respectively, or US$801 and US$874 according to current exchange rates.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 25, 2009)

Some freelancer guy here just bought one of them for 700 Euros, jeez, no phones that good.

Check out Sway, gamers. Amazing LBP type game.


----------



## editor (Mar 25, 2009)

jæd said:


> Unlocked iPhones now available... More at http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/03/uk-site-now-offering-unlocked-iphones-1.ars ...


£600 for a phone? You're 'aaaaavin' a laaarf.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 25, 2009)

jæd said:


> Unlocked iPhones now available... More at http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/03/uk-site-now-offering-unlocked-iphones-1.ars ...



So with a 20 quid a month sim only deal you'd still be paying like 800 quid a year...


----------



## paolo (Mar 25, 2009)

Been available unlocked in Belgium at about the same price for quite awhile now.

Difficult to justify when a full 18 Months lock in (16Gb/600 Mins/Unlim data/WiFi Hotspots) is £770, vs £600 for an unlocked phone with no service.

It would be good if the Pre is available officially unlocked at a decent price, but who knows. Depends on how much Palm feels obliged to protect its partner carriers. Sadly I think they will try to play along. The carriers still have alot of power unfortunately.


----------



## jæd (Mar 25, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So with a 20 quid a month sim only deal you'd still be paying like 800 quid a year...



Yes... You would need to have a contract < £ 14.16 to be quids in... 

And then 02 will (hopefully) reduce the price of the new iPhone when its launched... I think the only people it would be attracted to would be people who travel a lot and don't want to jail-break...


----------



## Oswaldtwistle (Mar 25, 2009)

Is there any point in an unlocked I phone? Surely you need to be on O2 for the unlimited data package?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 25, 2009)

Depends what 02 is like your way and if you've got money to burn. I doubt many people would use over a 1 gig a month a most networks will do that for a sensible price.


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2009)

There's now an incredible 30,000 apps on the iPhone app store which is an astonishing achievement -  although there are signs that the flood of new titles may be slowing, and there's still some unhappy developers out there. 

http://apple20.blogs.fortune.cnn.com/2009/03/26/iphone-app-store-30000-apps-but-slowing/

Feel my envy iPhone users! It's a chuffing desert for Palm OS users now.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 28, 2009)

Wow that sway is amazing. Totally crashed my phone to dead admittedly but easily the most original game idea i've seen in some time.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 28, 2009)

...


----------



## editor (Mar 28, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Wow that sway is amazing. Totally crashed my phone to dead admittedly but easily the most original game idea i've seen in some time.


Eh?


----------



## Sunray (Mar 28, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Some freelancer guy here just bought one of them for 700 Euros, jeez, no phones that good.
> 
> Check out Sway, gamers. Amazing LBP type game.




This  ^^


----------



## editor (Mar 28, 2009)

"You're on a planet that got blown up by a wizard..."

The graphics look pretty but... meh.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 28, 2009)

The game plays very well indeed.  3 quid is good value for what is a very polished game.


----------



## editor (Mar 28, 2009)

Sunray said:


> The game plays very well indeed.  3 quid is good value for what is a very polished game.


So polished that it "totally crashed your phone to dead"?



Elsewhere, Apple's attorneys  - yes, the very same Apple who are trying to make jailbreaking an _illegal_ act - have just submitted a jailbroken iPhone in a patent application. Looks like they'll have to sue themselves now  



> Uh oh Apple -- it looks like even your attorneys are dirty, thieving jailbreakers. Tipster a|e§ was poring through that iPhone biometric security patent application we posted earlier and noticed that the images show a jailbroken phone, complete with Installer.app, SMBPrefs, and the iWood Realize theme from the iSpazio repository. We're guessing the fine folks at Kramer, Levin Naftalis & Frankel are going to have some 'splainin to do on Monday morning -- but at least they get to run apps in the background.



http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/28/apple-uses-a-jailbroken-iphone-in-patent-application/


----------



## Sunray (Mar 28, 2009)

Not done it since. Prolly as I've not restarted my phone for months. It does get slower the longer you use it. Slight memory leak in there somewhere.  Played the demo and it's a very good game. Great graphics clever control scheme and challenging.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 28, 2009)

Another good thing about Apple's impact on gaming is bringing the prices of gaming down...


----------



## editor (Mar 29, 2009)

Handy links for you iPhone users:



> 50 free iPhone apps
> 16 best free iPhone apps
> 16 worst free iPhone apps
> 10 best iPhone apps
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Mar 29, 2009)

editor said:


> Handy links for you iPhone users:



Those are interesting to see because the top 10's are old and serve only as comparison to highlight how far the applications have come.  Then there were dictionaries and bejewelled.

Now there is
Sway 
Dizzybee http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x6f9ih_dizzy-bee-free-iphone-game-review_videogames
Rolando 
Fieldrunners 
Wild West Guns 

Technobox  (awesome) 303/808/909 synth
 and
Jaadu VNC client 

I could go on for some time....


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 29, 2009)

iphone vs stone floor.
Stone floor won, iphone's face is all cracked 

How much can I expect to be fleeced?


----------



## boskysquelch (Mar 29, 2009)

at least a lobster.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 29, 2009)

Given that its now out of warranty, if the LCD is OK but the glass is broken, its just a bit of glass.

http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/17504.htm 

17.62.  The screws are at the bottom of the phone.  Meant to be very easy,


----------



## Crispy (Mar 29, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Given that its now out of warranty, if the LCD is OK but the glass is broken, its just a bit of glass.
> 
> http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/17504.htm





> This is probably not the part you need...
> If you have dropped your phone and cracked the glass, then this may well not be the part you are looking for. The Digitizer and Glass panel are bonded together, and separating the broken glass and then carefully re-glueing the panel and digitizer back together is an incredibly difficult process, and requires solvents and suitable glue. Given this, you may want to consider the Panel/Digitizer combo sold elsewhere on the site.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 29, 2009)

64 quid for the right part, you sure you haven't got any insurance from your phone company?

http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/17505.htm


----------



## editor (Mar 29, 2009)

The £65 option makes more sense: http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/17505.htm


----------



## boskysquelch (Mar 29, 2009)

a pair or 3 of lobsters then. 

http://stcolumb.martins-seafresh.co.uk/shopping/shopdisplayproducts.asp?search=yes


----------



## Sunray (Mar 29, 2009)

Crispy said:


>



yeah I was reading that but I couldn't find the part they talk about. Had to go out..

Its very easy to take off.  Many youtube vids on that...

Ahh


----------



## editor (Mar 29, 2009)

Sunray said:


> yeah I was reading that but I couldn't find the part they talk about. Had to go out..
> 
> Its very easy to take off.  Many youtube vids on that...
> 
> Ahh


That speeded up video still takes nearly ten minutes and I can't say I'd be very comfortable taking my phone apart like that - and even the vid says you have to be a "very patient" person to take it on.

How much do Apple charge for a 'legal' repair?


----------



## jæd (Mar 30, 2009)

Has anyone posted this...?



> Months after teasing us at CES with an announcement of Skype's native VoIP client for the iPhone, the free Skype for iPhone will finally be available to download from the iTunes App Store sometime on Tuesday. We got a chance to sit down with the application's principal engineer before the announcement was made at CTIA 2009, to see Skype for iPhone do its thing. While most of the features aren't too surprising--Skype does want to maintain some consistency across its mobile applications, after all--there are a few capabilities that are notably missing, and a few iPhone-only perks that are refreshing to see.


http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12261_7-10206786-51.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

Hopefully this will be in the .uk App store soon...


----------



## Sunray (Mar 30, 2009)

I think Apple charge 70 quid an hour + parts, Apple sourced parts of course.  So your looking at 200 quid I reckon.  Can't find anyone complaining how much apple charge for it.  Once you smash it like that its out of warranty anyway.

It looks hard but a couple of screws.  Like he says just have to take it slow.  The connectors are fragile.  Cleaning all the glue off is the hard part.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 30, 2009)

jæd said:


> Has anyone posted this...?
> 
> 
> http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-12261_7-10206786-51.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20
> ...



I'm looking forward to that (and the Slingbox app).

Found a way to get files on the device _using USB_ without syncing (so you can use a work computer or another PC to copy files). DiskAid on mac/pc and FileAid on iPhone. 

http://www.digidna.net/diskaid/


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2009)

Structaural said:


> I'm looking forward to that (and the Slingbox app).


Note: VoIP calls via Skype for iPhone will only work if you have a Wi-Fi connection.

http://www.techradar.com/news/inter...-blackberry-announced-588660?src=rss&attr=all


----------



## Sunray (Mar 30, 2009)

Which is why the Skype application isn't so interesting, TruPhone, fring and a few others are already there. Only really useful if your abroad in a free wifi area or 0800 numbers in this country.  Allows you to make cheap calls. 

These will be better when the Application payment system comes in with v3.


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Which is why the Skype application isn't so interesting, TruPhone, fring and a few others are already there. Only really useful if your abroad in a free wifi area or 0800 numbers in this country.  Allows you to make cheap calls.


I use Skype chat a lot on my Centro, but with no wi-fi and only weedy GPRS connectivity, there's no point even attempting VoIP.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 30, 2009)

editor said:


> Note: VoIP calls via Skype for iPhone will only work if you have a Wi-Fi connection.
> 
> http://www.techradar.com/news/inter...-blackberry-announced-588660?src=rss&attr=all



I suspected that would be the case. 

Fine by me, I have the cheapest tariff which gives me _limited_ 3G. I'm just hoping the client will be better than Fring which is pretty poor. We use Skype a lot for phoning the UK.


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 30, 2009)

editor said:


> I can't say I'd be very comfortable taking my phone apart like that - and even the vid says you have to be a "very patient" person to take it on.



No, me niether.
Intricate electronic itams I've had a go at in the past have a habit of never going back together again quite properly & end up with someone who knows what there doing in the end anyway.

Warranty is still valid I think - only got it end of Nov, but fuckwit damage isn't usually part of it. Insurance the same  - loss or theft only.

Still works fine though. I'll see what Apple want for it I suppose & if it's silly, I can always hang on for an upgrade.


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> No, me niether.
> Intricate electronic itams I've had a go at in the past have a habit of never going back together again quite properly & end up with someone who knows what there doing in the end anyway.


I remember taking apart a portable minidisc player. Despite being incredibly careful and making notes of what went where, it never went back together again.

If it's going to cost you £200, it may be worth waiting for the upgrade - or at least seeing if you can pick up a secondhand iPhone. Or you could, of course, claim that it's been nicked.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 30, 2009)

Heh, Ghostbusters game coming to your iPhone!









> Ghostbusters is coming to iPhone! Buckle up your boots and grab your PKE meter, as Sony Pictures Television has just announced an iPhone version of the Ghostbusters game for iPhone, to go with the Xbox 360, Sony PS3 and Nintendo Wii versions.
> 
> 
> We already knew Ghostbusters was incoming for all three home consoles in June, but now you can add iPhone to the list too.
> ...


----------



## lozenge (Mar 30, 2009)

editor said:


> Note: VoIP calls via Skype for iPhone will only work if you have a Wi-Fi connection.



seems it won't show you as being online unless the app is open 
maybe there'll be a way round this (background apps) in the not too distant future.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 30, 2009)

Apple have continuously refused to allow background running. Although the Push service in OS3.0 should allow better functionality.


----------



## Oswaldtwistle (Mar 30, 2009)

editor said:


> If it's going to cost you £200, it may be worth waiting for the upgrade - or at least seeing if you can pick up a secondhand iPhone. Or you could, of course, claim that it's been nicked.



I think you need a crime number to claim that. Which means making a false statement to the police. 

The chances of getting caught are slim, but if you did the consequences would be *very* serious.


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2009)

I'm _really_ not sure why the BBC think this is worthy of an entire page plus two minute video, but here's fanboy Rory Cellan-Jones piece about Skype on the iPhone: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7971673.stm

It's not like Apple are even remotely first to offer Skype on a handset - in fact, other phones can do VoIP over 3G with Skype too.


----------



## jæd (Mar 31, 2009)

editor said:


> It's not like Apple are even remotely first to offer Skype on a handset - in fact, other phones can do VoIP over 3G with Skype too.



Well... The Skype App was written by Skype themselves...

The app itself has landed in the .uk store, and it looks like you might be able to use it on 3G after all : http://www.9to5mac.com/skype-works-on-3G-3.0. Ah, looks like you can only use it over 3G on the 3.0 Firmware...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 31, 2009)

jæd said:


> Well... The Skype App was written by Skype themselves...
> 
> The app itself has landed in the .uk store, and it looks like you might be able to use it on 3G after all : http://www.9to5mac.com/skype-works-on-3G-3.0. Ah, looks like you can only use it over 3G on the 3.0 Firmware...



Useful, and with access to the Cloud wifi hotspots this could be quite useful.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 31, 2009)

Am I the only one singally unimpressed by the Skype announcement as I see no use for it.


I don't use it at home as I have unlimited international calls on my landline. But if I was at home on my WiFi connection I could use my PC to Skype anyways.
I don't really have any friends that use Skype.
My mobile call package has more minutes than i know what to do with.

The only possiblility is if I want to call an 08## number from my mobile. How often do i do that? I can't remember the last time. I might save myself like £5 a year (41p a month) and would have to scout around for a free WiFi spot.


----------



## editor (Mar 31, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Useful, and with access to the Cloud wifi hotspots this could be quite useful.


I'd wait and see what O2 think of 3G VoIP before getting too excited.


----------



## funkydita (Mar 31, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> No, me niether.
> Intricate electronic itams I've had a go at in the past have a habit of never going back together again quite properly & end up with someone who knows what there doing in the end anyway.
> 
> Warranty is still valid I think - only got it end of Nov, but fuckwit damage isn't usually part of it. Insurance the same  - loss or theft only.
> ...



Not saying that I'd do it either but have you checked ifixit.com?  I've taken apart an ibook using their excellent instructions and it was quite painless.  Here's their 3g iphone guide http://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Device/iPhone_3G


----------



## jæd (Mar 31, 2009)

editor said:


> I'd wait and see what O2 think of 3G VoIP before getting too excited.



Why...?  The application won't work on 3G with the 2.x firmware... And I suspect the only reason the app works on 3G with the 3.0 firmware is because it hasn't been debugged fully for it...


----------



## Crispy (Mar 31, 2009)

jæd said:


> Why...?  The application won't work on 3G with the 2.x firmware... And I suspect the only reason the app works on 3G with the 3.0 firmware is because it hasn't been debugged fully for it...


Because O2 might not like OS3 iphone owners to use their data network to make free calls and so might block such data traffic. I bet there's a clause in the contract already.


----------



## editor (Mar 31, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Because O2 might not like OS3 iphone owners to use their data network to make free calls and so might block such data traffic. I bet there's a clause in the contract already.


If there's not you can bet on one appearing very soon! It's pretty much standard on most network operators (unless you pay a premium).


----------



## jæd (Mar 31, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Because O2 might not like OS3 iphone owners to use their data network to make free calls and so might block such data traffic. I bet there's a clause in the contract already.



Probably is, but I suspect allowing OS 3 users to use the 3G network is probably through not testing the app thoroughly... (And the number of OS 3 users at the moment is tiny...)


----------



## Sunray (Mar 31, 2009)

As mentioned by Editor, I see that T3 have the Palm Pre as their #1 gadget.  How can they list as their best gadget something that nobody in the UK owns or can own? What a load of horse manure.

Engadget have the iPhone as the winner of best gadget of 2008 and it also wins the Editors choice award.  The Palm Pre, more sensibly gets the most anticpated gadget of 2009.


----------



## jæd (Apr 1, 2009)

Sunray said:


> As mentioned by Editor, I see that T3 have the Palm Pre as their #1 gadget.  How can they list as their best gadget something that nobody in the UK owns or can own? What a load of horse manure.



That sounds about right for T3...


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 1, 2009)

Sorry to disturb this thread but does anyone know what's the best Internet Radio application for the iPhone?


----------



## Sunray (Apr 1, 2009)

Most are free so why ask?  Download them and make your own mind up.  FStream is good, but I see there are others.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 1, 2009)

I use mainly Fstream so that I can access BBC radio stations.

Last FM comes highly recommended by many but I don't use it.

I wouldn't bother with Virgin as its broadcast bilingually in spanish or something (to get around some licence laws I'm suspecting) it gets annoying.


----------



## pk (Apr 1, 2009)

100% masahiko said:


> Sorry to disturb this thread but does anyone know what's the best Internet Radio application for the iPhone?



I use "nuage radio" and also "flycast", some good music shows on those if you like electronica...


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 2, 2009)

Thanks! Nuage and Last FM are awesome. So much better than wunder radio


----------



## Sunray (Apr 6, 2009)

I actually think for stock headphones, the sound quality of the iPhone isn't so bad.  

Unfortunately the build quality seriously leaves something to be desired, the left bud has just gone,lost all low end, on my 3rd pair.


----------



## paolo (Apr 6, 2009)

I hated them - they just didn't fit for me, and (possibly because of that) were way too quiet.

Substituted with some Sennheiser in-ear things that totally hoof


----------



## Sunray (Apr 6, 2009)

I need to hear people talking to me at work and I am sitting facing the wall.

Before they went wrong, all the rubber edges on both buds fell off at the same time.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 6, 2009)

I hated them too. I liked the sound (reasonably rich) but they hurt my ears. So I've got some bog standard Senheisser or whatever they are and they are great.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I actually think for stock headphones, the sound quality of the iPhone isn't so bad.
> 
> Unfortunately the build quality seriously leaves something to be desired, the left bud has just gone,lost all low end, on my 3rd pair.



years warranty and free replacements.


----------



## editor (Apr 6, 2009)

I always assume that the headphones supplied with my phone are going to be - at best - average, and reckon it's always worth splashing out a few quid for a decent pair.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 6, 2009)

I stick with the stock headphones. I don't like the 'push in ear' phones. I like to hear whats going on around me too.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 6, 2009)

They just keep falling out of my ears, though perhaps I have particularly greasy earholes.

Anyway - for anyone interested in mindmapping, I found two surprisingly good ones. Firstly there's the one I'd actually use practically, iThought, which imports and exports FreeMind maps easily, and allows easy editing, moving nodes about, colouring, adding icons and so on. You'd think that an iPhone wouldn't do that very well but actually, being able to quickly scroll around with the touchscreen makes it pretty comfortable. Could do with a bit of design work, it's not very flash, but it's the best actual mindmapper I found.

And secondly there's Headspace, which is a brilliant "show it to people to make them go 'oooh'" app. It makes heirarchical lists which you can nest and link to each other, like most outliners/mindmappers, but it makes them in 3D; they're all floating collections of items, further away from you the deeper they're nested. You can move the camera and zoom in and out with touch controls, or, if you like, have camera movement controlled by the accelerometer. It's not as practical as iThought but it looks _fucking wicked_ and at least people out there are experimenting with new data viewing and display methods. There's a Lite version without import/export functions so no reason not to take a look.


----------



## editor (Apr 6, 2009)

Developers are forbidden from jailbreaking their own devices!


> *Latest iPhone developer agreement bans jailbreaks*
> 
> The latest revision of the iPhone SDK agreement that developers must sign forbids jailbreaking or creating apps for jailbroken phones.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Apr 6, 2009)

editor said:


> I always assume that the headphones supplied with my phone are going to be - at best - average, and reckon it's always worth splashing out a few quid for a decent pair.



These are surprisingly good quality phones in the sound department.  Shame about the build quality.

I've set of ER4's which I am very happy with, but they block the sound and I can't use them as hands free and pause/skip track as there is no mic/button on them.

There are better ones, but only Apples have that minimalist button mic thingy.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2009)

I bought those Apple ones before realising they were for the ipod touch mainly. The volume buttons don't work and the bass could be beefed up. But the sound is very clear and they work well in noisy environments, I just EQ the bass up. 
I need that controller, I wish they'd bring out an adapter so I could use any headphones with the mic/remote, though.
The only third party ones I've seen that come close cost over 100 quid


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 7, 2009)

If you set the boost the bass in iTunes, you won't need to do it manually on the iPod - also reserve battery life too.



Does anyone know how to transfer music from the iPod onto iTunes?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2009)

changing the EQ of a track in itunes just makes the EQ on the ipod sync to it - it doesn't alter the file and it doesn't improve battery life.

to transfer stuff off an ipod, some 3rd party software is needed. I've got no idea what's hot in this category right now, though.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 7, 2009)

You sure about the EQ? 

Unsure if it's the same on the iPhone but on the click wheel / classic, I was told that was the case (by some guy in the Genius bar).


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2009)

It would mean transcoding the audio file every time you sync. You'd notice the drop in quality. I'm arguing from a position of "it must be that way" so if there's some evidence that it's the other way, I'll happily bow out


----------



## Kanda (Apr 7, 2009)

Crispy said:


> to transfer stuff off an ipod, some 3rd party software is needed. I've got no idea what's hot in this category right now, though.



No you don't.

Apple support forums tell you how to do it without 3rd party apps. 

Google it/Search the Apple site.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2009)

Kanda said:


> No you don't.
> 
> Apple support forums tell you how to do it without 3rd party apps.
> 
> Google it/Search the Apple site.


Well it's easy enough to get the files off, but if you want to see a neat list of album/artist and pick and choose what you want, you'll need some software. The filesa re all stored with randomised file names, see.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 7, 2009)

Crispy said:


> It would mean transcoding the audio file every time you sync. You'd notice the drop in quality. I'm arguing from a position of "it must be that way" so if there's some evidence that it's the other way, I'll happily bow out



Nah - I see the logic in what you're saying and this has cast some doubt into my brain. 

Now, I'm just trying to figure out if there's a difference in quality.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2009)

100% masahiko said:


> If you set the boost the bass in iTunes, you won't need to do it manually on the iPod - also reserve battery life too.
> 
> 
> 
> Does anyone know how to transfer music from the iPod onto iTunes?



I just put it on Hip-Hop EQ, works for most, the mids are excellent though, almost makes up for lack of bass..

You on PC or Mac?


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2009)

For all my moaning about Apple's business ethics - which I think are of _serious_ concern - I'm well envious of the iPhone right now. Loads of apps, a huge developer community, cutting edge programs and a lovely big screen.

*looks at l'il Centro and sighs...


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 7, 2009)

Structaural said:


> I just put it on Hip-Hop EQ, works for most, the mids are excellent though, almost makes up for lack of bass..
> 
> You on PC or Mac?



PC.

The mid levels are indeed good. 

What headphones do you use?

I bought some Sony MDRs (extra bass). The sound is on the damp side but it does give that extra punch.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2009)

I use Senuti on Mac, which I'm led to believe has a PC version somewhere. http://www.ipodrip.net/ <<<possibly (googled)

You can get all the music off by just showing invisible files (make sure 'use as hardrive is ticked in itunes'). But as Crispy says the filenames will be all borked. But the ID3 tags should be fine, so you could use a script to rename all the filenames afterwards.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 7, 2009)

Thanks for that!


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2009)

Structaural said:


> I use Senuti on Mac, which I'm led to believe has a PC version somewhere. http://www.ipodrip.net/ <<<possibly (googled)
> 
> You can get all the music off by just showing invisible files (make sure 'use as hardrive is ticked in itunes'). But as Crispy says the filenames will be all borked. But the ID3 tags should be fine, so you could use a script to rename all the filenames afterwards.


I've succesfully dropped all those random files onto itunes, with 'copy to library' and 'manage files' turned on, which sorted out all the folders and filenames automatically. Bit of a clunky way to do it though, especially if the tags are crap.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2009)

Good to know though. My Id tags are usually in a better state then my filenames.


So if rumours are true and a new iPhone is being made, what do people think it will be called? I reckon the *iPhone HD* or something alluding to it's video recording ability. Apple normally pick one thing to make something of - 3G last time. Or *The iPhone Everybody Wanted At Last* (as it's got cut & paste and MMS)...


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Apr 7, 2009)

New LG Arena launched - at least it doesn't look too familiar. Oh, wait...


----------



## teuchter (Apr 7, 2009)

I wouldn't be tempted by the new iphone even if it had the things that I want like a decent camera, because the iphone has been adopted by too many riff-raff for my liking.

The phones that I'm keeping my eye on at the moment are the N97 and the Sony Ericsson Idou.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2009)

*yawn*


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 7, 2009)

The LG Arena is a touchscreen just like the iPhone. I think the interface is what distinguishes each phone and in many ways acts like the plastic and rubber shell. I do like the CUBE interface for the Arena's multimedia player mind. Think it can compete very well against the iPhone.

eta - shit, their HD can get up to 40g, highest screen resolution on the market, 3.2 camera...that's not too bad.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 7, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Good to know though. My Id tags are usually in a better state then my filenames.
> 
> 
> So if rumours are true and a new iPhone is being made, what do people think it will be called? I reckon the *iPhone HD* or something alluding to it's video recording ability. Apple normally pick one thing to make something of - 3G last time. Or *The iPhone Everybody Wanted At Last* (as it's got cut & paste and MMS)...


 
Once 3.0 is released I'll have the iPhone I wanted.

A better camera would be nice but not essential. I don't go round taking photos all the time with my phone. In fact I think I only ever use the camera to take contact pics.

Video? Likewise. I won't use it.

The only enticement to get a new model would be a faster chipset but I can live with the one I've got.

For me the battle of the touch phones is a bit like the battle between VHS and betamax. Yes there will undoubtbly be technically better devices than the iPhone just as betamax was technically better than VHS. But who will have the best range of ap content? iTunes is who. Just has VHS had a better range of films.

I think Apple are going to continue to dominate the market through iTunes as developers see it as the best cash cow for them to develop for.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2009)

Is the arena a capacative or resistive touchscreen? Makes a big difference - capacative ones are unresponsive and innacurate for finger use. And they can't do multi-touch.

The Idou will run S60, so it'll be hideous to use, just like the rest


----------



## 100% masahiko (Apr 7, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I wouldn't be tempted by the new iphone even if it had the things that I want like a decent camera, because the iphone has been adopted by too many riff-raff for my liking.
> 
> The phones that I'm keeping my eye on at the moment are the N97 and the Sony Ericsson Idou.



That's the thing with technology isn't it? It evolves all the time. What's great now is shit tomorrow. I don't think the wrong 3G brand is going to fuck your life up.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 7, 2009)

What is it about S60 that people seem to dislike? It has never bothered me particularly.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2009)

teuchter said:


> What is it about S60 that people seem to dislike? It has never bothered me particularly.


It's clunky and looks old fashioned and feels like something from the 90s. Compared to the iphone or Pre interface (from what we've seen) it just seems antiquated. Plus, there's barely any developer community for it.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2009)

I don't think I'll ever buy a Nokia again.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2009)

Let's face it, there's only 3 decent and exciting platforms for smartphones, the iPhone, Android, and the Pre (if it ever materialises). Apple have established that people now want apps, even if they didn't before.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 7, 2009)

Crispy said:


> It's clunky and looks old fashioned and feels like something from the 90s. Compared to the iphone or Pre interface (from what we've seen) it just seems antiquated. Plus, there's barely any developer community for it.



Perhaps I need to spend more time using those other interfaces to understand why they are better. But I generally find it does what I want it to do.

I'm not sure it's fair to say there's "barely any developer community"? I know that the iphone equivalent is growing much more rapidly, but there are still thousands of s60 applications available.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2009)

My problem with Nokia is the build quality of their phones, I've had 3 replaced and my final one stopped working with some antennae related problem. It's certainly not helped by the damn ugly operating system.
I'm not saying the 'dropability' of the iPhone is any better but at least the screen doesn't break when you lean forward at work.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 7, 2009)

Structaural said:


> My problem with Nokia is the build quality of their phones, I've had 3 replaced and my final one stopped working with some antennae related problem.



This hasn't been my experience. I've got an N95 which I bought secondhand going on for two years ago, and has been bashed around a fair bit and survived getting wet enough in a rainstorm that the screen went blotchy for a few days. The only problems I've had are the battery cover needing replaced and a slightly dodgy connection on the charger socket.


----------



## 43mhz (Apr 7, 2009)

Well after much pondering, I decided to Jailbreak my iPhone and I'm very pleased with the results.. I now have Skype working over 3G, Apps placed in folders.. a modem for my laptop, a video recorder (although not very good), and a better YouTube app allowing me to download video instead of just streaming..


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2009)

teuchter said:


> This hasn't been my experience. I've got an N95 which I bought secondhand going on for two years ago, and has been bashed around a fair bit and survived getting wet enough in a rainstorm that the screen went blotchy for a few days. The only problems I've had are the battery cover needing replaced and a slightly dodgy connection on the charger socket.



They're probably their best built phones though, sort of rugged aren't they. Some of the rest of their range could do with better build though, especially the cover on the screen on the bigger screened phones.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 7, 2009)

43mhz said:


> Well after much pondering, I decided to Jailbreak my iPhone and I'm very pleased with the results.. I now have Skype working over 3G, Apps placed in folders.. a modem for my laptop, a video recorder (although not very good), and a better YouTube app allowing me to download video instead of just streaming..



Can you background any apps you want?


----------



## Sunray (Apr 7, 2009)

Structaural said:


> They're probably their best built phones though, sort of rugged aren't they. Some of the rest of their range could do with better build though, especially the cover on the screen on the bigger screened phones.



Thats because they are modelled on a house brick.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 7, 2009)

I've never really had trouble with Nokia hardware either - my first, the 3650, did feel (and look) like a plastic toy, but it was relatively solid. My N73 at the moment is fine; the slidey lens cover is the only thing that annoys me, it feels too slidey and wrong, but that's not a durability defect.

I'm pretty sure I'll not buy another Nokia in the near future though, just because every time I have to use the damn thing, the UI is a complete embarrassment after the iPod Touch. Actually it was an embarrassment before that but I didn't have another gadget pointing it out all the time.


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2009)

When it comes to sheer feature count, not much matches the best Nokia phones.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 7, 2009)

Takes you half an hour to get to each one though.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 7, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> the UI is a complete embarrassment after the iPod Touch. Actually it was an embarrassment before that but I didn't have another gadget pointing it out all the time.



That's at least partly down to the touchscreen / non-touchscreen difference though. A well-functioning touchscreen is bound to be more natural to use than a fiddly keyboard. I'm reserving judgement until I've used a Nokia with touchscreen.


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Takes you half an hour to get to each one though.


And the battery might conk out before you get there too.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Takes you half an hour to get to each one though.


Quite. My ancient SE t610 has a Music DJ feature, and a picture editor. They're hidden deep in the menus and are shit to use.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 7, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Takes you half an hour to get to each one though.



I don't think this is really true. I can get to most things I use regularly by pressing one button. Just need to set up the shortcuts properly.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 7, 2009)

teuchter said:


> That's at least partly down to the touchscreen / non-touchscreen difference though. A well-functioning touchscreen is bound to be more natural to use than a fiddly keyboard. I'm reserving judgement until I've used a Nokia with touchscreen.



Honestly, it's more the menu structure and display. I'm pretty used to using the joystick to go around menus, it doesn't bother me, but Nokia seem to manage to bury the most important stuff five-deep in entirely inobvious places - and sometimes entirely leave out really handy options, too.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 7, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Honestly, it's more the menu structure and display. I'm pretty used to using the joystick to go around menus, it doesn't bother me, but Nokia seem to manage to bury the most important stuff five-deep in entirely inobvious places - and sometimes entirely leave out really handy options, too.



Well I would agree that it can often be difficult to find certain things that you only need occasionally, and sometimes they are not only buried quite deep but seem to be in anti-intuitive locations. But like I say, this isn't really an issue if you set up shortcuts to the things you use most often - I can shortcut to about ten different things with a single button press and lots more with two.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 7, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Honestly, it's more the menu structure and display. I'm pretty used to using the joystick to go around menus, it doesn't bother me, but Nokia seem to manage to bury the most important stuff five-deep in entirely inobvious places - and sometimes entirely leave out really handy options, too.



Thats why i hate Nokia too. Some people love the menus but i hate em with a passion. I spent ten minutes trying to put my bosses phone on silent vibrate for her and failed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 7, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Takes you half an hour to get to each one though.



Tell me about...


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2009)

Apple has just hiked up their iTunes prices:


> iTunes updated their pricing structure to a new system today, pricing tracks at $0.69, $0.99, and $1.29. They're calling it "variable pricing," but Gizmodo more accurately calls it the "Popular Songs Cost More Money" system.
> 
> The simple new system works like so: Most new releases and traditionally popular songs go for the more expensive $1.29 price point (where $0.99 used to be the flat standard). Apple tries to sugarcoat this expanded price point by suggesting that the $0.69 tracks will offset the 30% price hike, but guess what: You'll be hard pressed to find a single $0.69 song in the iTunes store. (They're there, but finding them is like a really boring scavenger hunt where the reward is an extremely crappy song.) What you will find is a whole lot more $1.29 tracks, and pretty much everything else selling for $0.99.
> 
> ...


More: http://i.gizmodo.com/5185221/itunes-popular-songs-cost-more-money-pricing-goes-live-april-7


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 7, 2009)

So old stuff no one likes will be cheap? Nice!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2009)

I wonder if Apple would let a rival tunes purchaser onto the device?  People often forget that there is a version of iTunes on the iPhone that I can buy tunes and apps over the air not just through Wifi.

Once v3 is out its more than possible to have an app with their new in app purchasing API.  If they blocked those app's, they would probably be in violation of every anti-competition law in every country that has such a law.  Perhaps they can see it coming....


----------



## Oswaldtwistle (Apr 8, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So old stuff no one likes will be cheap? Nice!



To be fair it's no different to the pricing policy in physical music shops......


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2009)

The tiered pricing was the labels price for allowing the removal of DRM from the itunes store.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2009)

Oswaldtwistle said:


> To be fair it's no different to the pricing policy in physical music shops......



I aint complaining, multi tier pricing is a good idea from what I can see.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2009)

Crispy said:


> The tiered pricing was the labels price for allowing the removal of DRM from the itunes store.


 
The radio this morning covered this and they thought it was iTunes response to Amazon's cheaper prices. iTunes to drop drices on popular tunes to be competative and to make up the difference on other tunes.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2009)

Given that there seems to be a bit of a head of steam with the number of devices released with OLED displays, I'm starting to hope.  Its an instant win win win for anything that uses them, you get a thinner display, longer battery life and the display itself is gorgeous to look at with real blacks and no visibility issues.  

I am really starting to wonder if Apple are going to have one in the next device?.  Its the major feature for me that would make me upgrade.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 9, 2009)

The compass sounds interesting, you'll be able to point your phone at the sky and it'll tell you what stars you're looking at, for instance. Will help with turn-by-turn stuff too.

I'll be in no hurry to get one unless they alllow an upgrade at t-mobile. I've still got another 15 months to go..


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 9, 2009)

Structaural said:


> The compass sounds interesting, you'll be able to point your phone at the sky and it'll tell you what stars you're looking at, for instance. Will help with turn-by-turn stuff too.



You can already do this on a G1


----------



## Sunray (Apr 9, 2009)

Structaural said:


> The compass sounds interesting, you'll be able to point your phone at the sky and it'll tell you what stars you're looking at, for instance. Will help with turn-by-turn stuff too.
> 
> I'll be in no hurry to get one unless they alllow an upgrade at t-mobile. I've still got another 15 months to go..



I think you need to post in the correct thread. No android openness in here thankyou.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 12, 2009)

I been selling something on ebay for the 1st time and got me thinking how much I'd get for my iPhone 3g.  Blimy.  300 quid minimum at the moment.  Unlocked new are going for 700 quid.

Given that Apple have just put in a massive order for 8gb flash ram, so big its raised the global price for flash. 

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/721/1051721/apple-flash-rocks-market

We can be sure that there will be a new phone in the offing soon.  I wonder what I'll get when the new one comes out, if the new one is worth buying.


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Given that Apple have just put in a massive order for 8gb flash ram, so big its raised the global price for flash.


And that's really bad news for consumers.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 12, 2009)

editor said:


> And that's really bad news for consumers.



Its nothing to do with Apple. Its more to do with the flash producers over producing for too long, depressing the price so much that it became uneconomic, many making losses and subsequently pulling out of making it.

Flash memory is still pretty cheap but if you want to make anything on a large scale, then this is going to happen,  less people are making it now.

e.g. 

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Data-Stora...Flash-Memory-Production-Plant-Cuts-Workforce/

Micron are a huge company and a major Intel partner.


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Its nothing to do with Apple.


From the article you linked to: 





> IF APPLE has placed an order for 100 million 8Gb NAND chips, as reports suggest, it could cause supply problems and raise prices in an already unsteady market.
> Contract prices for Flash memory have already increased by 16 per cent in recent weeks and an order of this magnitude can only make matters worse for an industry struggling under the weight of fab closures caused by the financial downturn.




They're using their vast economic muscle to try and bagsy all the Flash RAM for themselves. I'd say that's bad news for consumers.


----------



## tarannau (Apr 12, 2009)

Eh? Not if they're iphone or touch customers for a start.

Whilst I realise you'll leave no stone unturned in your haste to make a pop at Apple, you can hardly blame any manufacturer for ordering in bulk to reduce prices. If anything it's the lack of suppliers and capacity that's the issue - hell, by buying such huge orders Apple's as likely to reduce unit cost in the longer term for everyone.


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2009)

tarannau said:


> Whilst I realise you'll leave no stone unturned in your haste to make a pop at Apple,


Zzzzz. Get that iChip off your shoulder. 

I simply responded to Sunray's post that _"Apple have just put in a massive order for 8gb flash ram, so big its raised the global price for flash,"_ commenting that such a move was "bad news for consumers". Not sure how you can disagree with that, to be honest.


----------



## tarannau (Apr 12, 2009)

As above. I don't see how you can conclude that Apple buying large stocks of NAND chips is 'really bad news for consumers' short of weirdo prejudice. It's a short term supply issue at best, one that most manufacturers will bear the costs of rather than consumers.

If you haven't noticed Apple sells a fair few of those ipod and touch things to consumers as well


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2009)

tarannau said:


> As above. I don't see how you can conclude that Apple buying large stocks of NAND chips is 'really bad news for consumers' short of weirdo prejudice. It's a short term supply issue at best, one that most manufacturers will bear the costs of rather than consumers.
> 
> If you haven't noticed Apple sells a fair few of those ipod and touch things to consumers as well


Here's Sunray's post again: _"Apple have just put in a massive order for 8gb flash ram, *so big its raised the global price for flash*_."


> DigiTimes reports the Apple order will also drain global supply and push prices up with other manufacturers likely to be hit by shortages.
> http://www.trustedreviews.com/mobil...Apple-Places-100-million-Unit-Flash-Order-/p1


How can prices going up and possible shortages elsewhere be anything else _but_ bad news for consumers in general?


----------



## tarannau (Apr 12, 2009)

Consumers don't buy NAND chips in bulk from fabricating plants!

That's far too simplistic. Manufacturers tend to stockpile components to avoid price fluctuations like this. Add to that they'll usually absorb the cost of component price rises rather than pass on the increase to the consumer.

Besides, who's to say that Apple won't be keeping its own costs down by buying in bulk and passing savings onto the consumer?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 12, 2009)

Apple aren't doing anything Palm or any other company wouldn't do if they had the chance...


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apple aren't doing anything Palm or any other company wouldn't do if they had the chance...


If a dominant company's spending spree may lead to increased costs prices and shortages for other, smaller manufacturers, I really can't see how that can be spun into anything else than bad news for consumers in general, whether that company be Palm, Microsoft or anyone else.

And that is all I've said.


----------



## tarannau (Apr 12, 2009)

How many times can I say it - the fact that component prices have temporarily risen does not necessarily mean that prices of the finished product will be higher to the consumer.  It doesn't have to be either bad or good news for the customer, which is why your initial oversimplistic assumption is so telling and unnecessary

Besides, if the largest supplier gets lower costs in and can reduce costs, why wouldn't the bulk of consumers benefit?


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2009)

tarannau said:


> Besides, if the largest supplier gets lower costs in and can reduce costs, why wouldn't the bulk of the consumers benefit?


Why do you keep ignoring this bit? 

_"DigiTimes reports the Apple order will also drain global supply and push prices up *with other manufacturers likely to be hit by shortages*."_

If these shortages do happen, do you think that's good news or bad news for consumers in general?


----------



## tarannau (Apr 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Why do you keep ignoring this bit?
> 
> _"DigiTimes reports the Apple order will also drain global supply and push prices up *with other manufacturers likely to be hit by shortages*."_
> 
> If these shortages do happen, do you think that's good news or bad news for consumers in general?



IF shortages do happen, which is far from assured given that manufacturers will tend to stockpile and plan ahead, then component prices are likely to stay marginally higher for a little while. And I suspect, as with exchange rate variations, most companies would absorb the increased costs rather than the consumer.

In short, it's neither good or bad news for the consumer and it's unwise to draw so unbalanced a conclusion. I'm willing to wager that costs for existing products will not change as a result

The only issue is if a lack of capacity continues in the long term, which seems unlikely tbh.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 12, 2009)

It was more of note that they put the order in than any comment of the cost of flash ram.  

Its a commodity anyway so the price isn't set by the people that make it.  So over supplied was the planet that I can fully imagine Samsung having a warehouse with a couple of hundred million chips in it anyway so probably not affect world price or supply too much in the long term.


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 13, 2009)

Jesus. You're bloody mentalists.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 14, 2009)

Second vote for the crystal screen protector. I just took the old one off and the screen was as glossy as the day it was bought. They come in packs of two, 1st one lasted 9 months, I can see this one lasting as long as I use this phone.  

Old protector was scratched and scuffed and with the new protector now installed the phone looks like new again.  10 quid.  Brilliant.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 14, 2009)

editor said:


> Why do you keep ignoring this bit?
> 
> _"DigiTimes reports the Apple order will also drain global supply and push prices up *with other manufacturers likely to be hit by shortages*."_
> 
> If these shortages do happen, do you think that's good news or bad news for consumers in general?



Personally I think it is a disgrace that wealthy western consumers may be hit by a possible temporary marginal increase in the cost of their luxury gadgetry items and in fact I am getting so hot under the collar about this issue that I am making a placard right now and tomorrow I am going to go down to Regent street and smash in those capitalist windows of the Apple store, so I am.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 14, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Personally I think it is a disgrace that wealthy western consumers may be hit by a possible temporary marginal increase in the cost of their luxury gadgetry items and in fact I am getting so hot under the collar about this issue that I am making a placard right now and tomorrow I am going to go down to Regent street and smash in those capitalist windows of the Apple store, so I am.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 14, 2009)




----------



## Gromit (Apr 14, 2009)

What are Apple supposed to do then?

We know you are a business n all that but stop being so successfully that you need lots of components. How dare you be popular. Can't you see how being popular is hurting your competitors. Shame on you. Don't you care about Palm and Microsoft etc? You've hurt their feelings. Say sorry.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 14, 2009)

I keep seeing people with these hideous covers for their phones.  e.g







Why! All the effort of the designer to make it look nice and they cover it in something like that!  I bet they never get it out of the cover till they buy another phone.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 14, 2009)

Enough of this talk.
When is the next handset out?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 14, 2009)

Mid June, with a high degree of confidence.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 14, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Mid June, with a high degree of confidence.



Hmmmmm....

My upgrade date - Sat 6th June


----------



## Gromit (Apr 14, 2009)

October for me but I bet they'll do a free upgrade again so long as you sign up to another 18 months.

Tempted to just see out my contract first and then decide.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 14, 2009)

*morns the loss of pixel 128 by 200* 

*Waves goodbye to a decent price on ebay*


----------



## Kanda (Apr 14, 2009)

Sunray said:


> *morns the loss of pixel 128 by 200*
> 
> *Waves goodbye to a decent price on ebay*



Warranty???


----------



## teuchter (Apr 14, 2009)

Sunray said:


> *morns the loss of pixel 128 by 200*



This seems very precise. Did you put it under a microscope and count the pixels?


----------



## Sunray (Apr 14, 2009)

no, I just thought it was a good name for a pixel, he had a good life.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 14, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Warranty???



I think its 4-5 before they will replace it depending on where they are.

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1721?viewlocale=en_US


----------



## Lazy Llama (Apr 14, 2009)

I'm not sure they'd replace it for a single pixel.

There are some 'acceptable level of failures' standards around for monitors, no idea if they're applied for phone screens.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 21, 2009)

> The Carphone Warehouse is struggling to shift a glut of iPhone stock in preparation for the anticipated launch of a new model this summer



http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=25766


----------



## Sunray (Apr 21, 2009)

Badgers said:


> http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=25766



I don't think they are too bothered because anything Apple will release will be more expensive, diversifying the range.

So once its released the 3G will shift to a lower price point with the new v3 software.  People will get a choice and buy the more expensive one with the extra memory and what ever Apple put into it or they and spend a bit less and get the 3G.

Its is significantly less then it will make going tough for the competition.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 21, 2009)

Did the 2G carry on selling after the 3G came out?
I suppose the shift in specs might be smaller this time, so the two models can co-exist easily. Who knows.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 22, 2009)

No but thats because it was entirely replaced by the 3G version.  

I don't see any compelling reasons for Apple to do the same for the next version, I'm more than happy with this v2 software and hardware apart from wanting a bit faster CPU and longer batter life.  V3 of the software just about fixes all those niggling gripes I have although they have never been more than niggling.

If they made the 8GB free on a 12 month contract, instantly the most popular phone in the world.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 22, 2009)

I'd buy a 3G if they reduced the price to a hundred quid or so. I'm patently not going to otherwise though, particularly considering that I'd have to switch networks and pay off Vodafone. And I really want to get an iPhone.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 22, 2009)

Wait a couple of months and see.  

I can't see a valid reason for them not to just diversify the range and keep the model at a lower price.  They have a 50% profit margin when they started, so a couple of years later is probably 75%.  Have some headroom to cut the price and still have a posh version for people like me with more money than sense.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Apr 22, 2009)

Any apps (or any other way) that will stream a radio .ram file to my iPhone please?

Struggling...


----------



## Gromit (Apr 22, 2009)

The new Sky ap is fab. 

Set my planner from anywhere (that I have a signal). 
7 day TV shedule.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 23, 2009)

Tricky Skills said:


> Any apps (or any other way) that will stream a radio .ram file to my iPhone please?
> 
> Struggling...



I think that might have to be a v3 thing, its got streaming media api.  You would need a RealPlayer player for the iphone and afaik real don't make one yet.  Thats why the iPlayer is quicktime for the iPhone.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 23, 2009)

I read earlier that iplayer and spotify are heading to the iphone.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 23, 2009)

Badgers said:


> I read earlier that iplayer and spotify are heading to the iphone.



BBC iPlayer? Been there for months.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 23, 2009)

Really? 

Oh, not sure why that was mentioned then


----------



## Kanda (Apr 23, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Really?



Yup, I don't take newspapers/books to the loo anymore


----------



## Crispy (Apr 23, 2009)

Probably means a standalone app instead of the web page. Won't make much difference, I guess.

Spotify would be very nice though


----------



## Badgers (Apr 23, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Spotify would be very nice though



Then all you have to do is find a way of uninstalling quicktime and itunes for the iPhone to be perfect?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 23, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Then all you have to do is find a way of uninstalling quicktime and itunes for the iPhone to be perfect?


Quicktime and itunes are great. on the mac, anyway 
itunes is pretty good on the pc tbf, you just have to stop giving a shit about files and folders.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 23, 2009)

Crispy said:


> stop giving a shit about files and folders.



Madness wrapped around insanity


----------



## Crispy (Apr 23, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Madness wrapped around insanity


Complete simplicity more like 
Won't go into details here, just search for the arguments I've had with jefe on the eubject


----------



## Badgers (Apr 23, 2009)

I am sold on the iPhone now it seems. 
From the 6th of June I will be part of the clique


----------



## Kanda (Apr 23, 2009)

Badgers said:


> I am sold on the iPhone now it seems.
> From the 6th of June I will be part of the clique



Remember it may get updated soon.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 23, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Remember it may get updated soon.



Yeah... 

Rumours are for June so gonna keep my powder dry. 
Trying to get a handset for the wife too but she is in contract for a long while yet. 
Might see if I can find a 2g on the cheap


----------



## hendo (Apr 23, 2009)

Good piece from tech crunch about the iphone this morning: here


----------



## Badgers (Apr 23, 2009)

32GB for the new model?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 23, 2009)

Almost certainly, I reckon


----------



## Badgers (Apr 23, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Almost certainly, I reckon



This is good news. 
B0B2oo9 has been claiming he is cooler than me know he has an iPhone and I don't. Once he realises that he is lumped with the 'lame duck' 16GB antiquated model I will be twice as awesome as him.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 23, 2009)

It won't be cheap!


----------



## jæd (Apr 23, 2009)

Badgers said:


> This is good news.
> B0B2oo9 has been claiming he is cooler than me know he has an iPhone and I don't. Once he realises that he is lumped with the 'lame duck' 16GB antiquated model I will be twice as awesome as him.



If its anything like last year o2 will have a discounted upgrade rate for existing users.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 23, 2009)

Crispy said:


> It won't be cheap!



Hmmmm.... 

I might have to get a 58 month contract or something? Then they might release a 64GB while I am still in contract and B0B2oo9 will get an upgrade and laugh in my fucking face again.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 23, 2009)

Badgers said:


> This is good news.
> B0B2oo9 has been claiming he is cooler than me know he has an iPhone and I don't. Once he realises that he is lumped with the 'lame duck' 16GB antiquated model I will be twice as awesome as him.



haha, does that mean im cooler than bob as i've had mine since the day the first one came out 

</fanboi>


----------



## Sunray (Apr 23, 2009)

Here is some news that makes me think that Apple will announce a iPhone with an OLED display.  If they announce a 15.1" Mac notebook with one, then surely they will have 3" ones for the phone.  

http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=18165

Great for battery life as well. 40% power saving, the current display is by a long way the biggest power draw.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 23, 2009)

That OLED laptop story is a little unbelievable. The price is still too high.

Might be a goer on the iphone though - they're already on other phones and mp3 players.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 23, 2009)

Proper black.  
Perfect contrast ratio and lovely rich colours.  
Less power.  
Thinner phone.
I want big time.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 23, 2009)

Proper black?


----------



## Sunray (Apr 24, 2009)

Yeah, OLED's generate light so when the pixel is off its properly dark.

LCD's block light to varying degrees giving you an approximation of black.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 24, 2009)

I wonder if they will include a off screen touch area a bit like the Pre but for games?  Its lack is causing some nice control invention but its also a limitation for some of the standard game types.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 28, 2009)

I just ordered one of these: http://www.aaxatech.com/store/products/p1.htm

Will report back when it arrives


----------



## Sunray (Apr 28, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I just ordered one of these: http://www.aaxatech.com/store/products/p1.htm
> 
> Will report back when it arrives



12 lumens! 

Gonna have to do your presentations in a windowless room with the lights off.


----------



## elbows (Apr 30, 2009)

CNN have a reasonably interesting article about possible Apple mid-sized portable device:

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/TECH/ptech/04/29/cnet.apple.mobile.computer/index.html


----------



## editor (May 4, 2009)

Here's Trent Reznor's (from rockers Nine Inch Nails) reaction to having his app rejected by Apple. He's not a happy bunny. 





> I'll voice the same issue I had with Wal-Mart years ago, which is a matter of consistency and hypocrisy. Wal-Mart went on a rampage years ago insisting all music they carry be censored of all profanity and "clean" versions be made for them to carry.
> 
> Bands (including Nirvana) tripped over themselves editing out words, changing album art, etc to meet Wal-Mart's standards of decency - because Wal-Mart sells a lot of records. NIN refused, and you'll notice a pretty empty NIN section at any Wal-Mart.
> 
> ...


http://www.engadget.com/2009/05/04/trent-reznor-rips-apple-summarizes-current-smartphone-oses/

I find it odd that some people don't seem concerned about the creeping corporate censorship that seems to be heading our way. It's already had an impact in the States with the likes of WalMart influencing content, and when 'cool' brands like Apple start joining in, then that should be of concern to all of us, no?

And just to underline that I'm not just having a go at the iPhone, I agree with Trent's words below: 


> The iPhone is THE most elegant, modern smartphone at this point in time and it's perfect for what we want to do with the NIN app - except for the ludicrous approval process, and that's what I want to draw attention to.


----------



## elbows (May 4, 2009)

Im concerned about it, I was rather hoping that after nearly 2 years of iphone, the competition would have upped their game more than has been the case so far.

I dont expect Apple to totally remove their process of controlling which apps get in the app store for a variety of reasons, but their process certainly needs to be changed in a pretty radical way because they are making quite a pigs ear of it so far.

Personally Id rather have a totally open device but as Apple's model makes them responsible for the app distribution, I dont look to them to do the right thing.

Of course there are other devices that have long had tight corporate control over what gets on them, eg games consoles, without quite the controversy, probably because its what people were used to? 

Meanwhile the clear demand from a minority for complete freedom to do what they want with their devices, leads to the unlocking/hacking homebrew scene, which is largely accessible only to geeks of one kind or another.

If I wanted to do something on the iphone which I feared could be prone to Apple censorship, Id make a webapp that runs in the browser thus avoiding the issue. It shouldnt be this way.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 4, 2009)

Why should people now be concerned with corporate control because of some phone? Shouldn't they already have that concern readily for the last few decades...?


----------



## editor (May 4, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why should people now be concerned with corporate control because of some phone? Shouldn't they already have that concern readily for the last few decades...?


Wow. Have you missed the point alright.


----------



## Sunray (May 4, 2009)

The wal-mart control issue is typical of us corporate fear that the get associate with some moral bandwagon.  Given wal-marts size and price, tad hard to understand. I'm guessing some religious power in the board room.   

Not sure which is more concerning, spineless rock bands or the corporations. 

You can buy NiN's album on iTunes direct to the phone so it's a weird decision. It lacks common sense in my view.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 4, 2009)

elbows said:


> Im concerned about it, I was rather hoping that after nearly 2 years of iphone, the competition would have upped their game more than has been the case so far.



Yeah, this is what concerns me most. I generally like the iPhone/Touch setup but my major hope has always been that it will spur development - that other groups will say "yes we see what is attracting people here, but we can do it better". I still have hopes for Android but right now it's not competing, and nobody else is; the big phone companies are _still_ just thinking that they can just put in a touch screen and maybe some bigger icons and yeah that'll be an IPHONE KILLER.

And every month that goes by, people are buying more iPhone apps, which makes them even less likely to switch and lose access to what they've paid for.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 4, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, this is what concerns me most. I generally like the iPhone/Touch setup but my major hope has always been that it will spur development - that other groups will say "yes we see what is attracting people here, but we can do it better". I still have hopes for Android but right now it's not competing, and nobody else is; the big phone companies are _still_ just thinking that *they can just put in a touch screen and maybe some bigger icons and yeah that'll be an IPHONE KILLER.*
> 
> And every month that goes by, people are buying more iPhone apps, which makes them even less likely to switch and lose access to what they've paid for.



Yep.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 4, 2009)

editor said:


> Wow. Have you missed the point alright.



Because you make it so well. The point is corporate control is nothing new, your obsession with Apple seems to imply that it is. They're not doing anything any company in their position would do, Palm included...


----------



## elbows (May 4, 2009)

There is a rumour that iphone os v3.0 will include parental controls and they will therefore be able to approve apps that they currently block:

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/05/04/iphone-3-0s-parental-controls-to-loosen-app-store-restrictions/

Makes some sense.


----------



## editor (May 4, 2009)

Kid_Eternity;9089732]The point is corporate control is nothing new said:


> They're not doing anything any company in their position would do, Palm included


That's just plain wrong and you're missing the point again. Far bigger mobile companies such as Nokia don't censor apps in this fashion - in fact,no one else does.

Seeing as Apple are becoming a more powerful concern in the mobile sector, there's a valid discussion to be had about the growing influence of corporate morality and technology.

You may have little regard for my opinion, but when people like Trent Reznor start drawing comparisons with Wal Mart, then I'd say it's something to talk about.

If it were Microsoft, or Palm, or anyone else stopping me putting apps on my phone because some corporate moral fuckwit doesn't like the fact it's got naughty words then I'd be equally annoyed. The fact that it's such a big and influential company as Apple makes it more of an issue.

@elbows: parental controls could be a good way to get Apple out of this almighty mess, although I think that would be the first time a phone had come with them (I think?).


----------



## editor (May 4, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, this is what concerns me most. I generally like the iPhone/Touch setup but my major hope has always been that it will spur development - that other groups will say "yes we see what is attracting people here, but we can do it better". I still have hopes for Android but right now it's not competing, and nobody else is; the big phone companies are _still_ just thinking that they can just put in a touch screen and maybe some bigger icons and yeah that'll be an IPHONE KILLER.


As you know, my job is to write about and sometimes review new phones, and it is astonishing how barely any manufacturer seems to have grasped the reason why Apple's iPhone is so popular. 

It's depressing how so many 'me too' phones with the same old rubbish UIs keep coming out, and Nokia's answer to the iPhone is plain awful - and it even comes with a shitty little stylus for fuck's sake.

Blackberry have tried to grab some of the consumer market but their phones still feels business-uptight and clunky, WM only comes close thanks to HTC's lossy interface, Android offers so much but I suspect many developers are tempted by the big $$$ of writing apps for the iPhone. 

That only leaves Palm who have come up with something that actually looks innovative enough to take on the iPhone, but they seem beset with logistics/cash issues.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 4, 2009)

Like I said companies in Apple's position. Nokia aren't in the same position. Nintendo are a comparable company in terms of position. Likewise Wal Mart and lo and behold they act in the same manner.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 4, 2009)

elbows said:


> There is a rumour that iphone os v3.0 will include parental controls and they will therefore be able to approve apps that they currently block:
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2009/05/04/iphone-3-0s-parental-controls-to-loosen-app-store-restrictions/
> 
> Makes some sense.



Yep that does. Be interesting to see the extent this will have...


----------



## editor (May 4, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Like I said companies in Apple's position. Nokia aren't in the same position. Nintendo are a comparable company in terms of position. Likewise Wal Mart and lo and behold they act in the same manner.


I've no idea why you're reeling off these arbitrary and random company comparisons or what their relevance is, but you're way off beam anyway.

According to the 2008 CNN survey, WalMart are the biggest corporation in the world with 378,799m revenue, Nokia are in 88th (69,886) and Apple sit in 337th place (24,006). Nintendo aren't anywhere to be seen in the top 500.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/global500/2008/full_list/

Can we get back to the iPhone now please?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 4, 2009)

Myst comes to the iPhone! Heh it is crazy how far things have come...now if only Maxis would do a version of Civ for it.



> The original Myst cost $600,000 and took two years to produce;it appeared on CD-Rom, and helped drive adoption of the format; CD-Rom, because it was so blooming big - hundreds of megabytes, because the designers took so much trouble about including textures and detailed visual information to make the experience as close to natural as possible through screens that were, at the very best, 1024x768 (but much more likely 16-bit, 800x600). And the original game was only in 8-bit colour anyway.
> 
> Be that as it may, Myst in its CD-Rom form cost around $30 - which would be quite a bit more in today's money (what with inflation over the past 16 years).
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (May 5, 2009)

Hmm, might get that.  Liked the later versions.

I think that marks a watershed on critical mass for App development on the iPhone.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Then again, if you'd wanted to download it in 1993, you would have been doing it, at best, at 9600baud - that's 9.6kbps.



Not that I remember! Even with an ISDN line I was lucky to get that. 56k dial up gave about 4 to 5k a second.


----------



## Gromit (May 5, 2009)

I'm just amazed that Assassin's Creed has made it onto the iPhone.

I assume a cut down version but still its mad to think something i thought was a good xBox game is going to be an iPhone game.


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Myst comes to the iPhone! Heh it is crazy how far things have come...now if only Maxis would do a version of Civ for it.


Wrong developer! Civ was Microprose


Marius said:


> I'm just amazed that Assassin's Creed has made it onto the iPhone.
> 
> I assume a cut down version but still its mad to think something i thought was a good xBox game is going to be an iPhone game.



It's a port of the DS version - it's quite a different game


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

Ah I knew it was something beginning with M.


----------



## g force (May 5, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, this is what concerns me most. I generally like the iPhone/Touch setup but my major hope has always been that it will spur development - that other groups will say "yes we see what is attracting people here, but we can do it better". I still have hopes for Android but right now it's not competing, and nobody else is; the big phone companies are _still_ just thinking that they can just put in a touch screen and maybe some bigger icons and yeah that'll be an IPHONE KILLER.
> 
> And every month that goes by, people are buying more iPhone apps, which makes them even less likely to switch and lose access to what they've paid for.



Agreed...I use a BlackBerry for work and you know it's a nice phone, decent UI (shitty web browser aside!) and it does what I need it to, ie, deliver emails and lets me respond to them on the move. Can't see them ever making a proper consumer handset though - they tried and as a first attempt it was dire.

The G1/2 interest me but I had a play on one and it didn't exactly blow me away in the same way the iphone did - the UI on the iphone is streets ahead of anything else.


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2009)

Bloody tricky choosing the next phone...


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

g force said:


> Agreed...I use a BlackBerry for work and you know it's a nice phone, decent UI (shitty web browser aside!) and it does what I need it to, ie, deliver emails and lets me respond to them on the move. Can't see them ever making a proper consumer handset though - they tried and as a first attempt it was dire..


Curiously enough, the Blackberry Curve has just kicked off the iPhone from the #1 US smartphone slot, with the company nabbing three out of the top 5 slots, with the G1 hitting the fifth slot ahead of any Symbian, Palm and WM devices.

http://www.slashgear.com/blackberry-curve-ousts-iphone-3g-from-us-smartphone-top-spot-0442672/


----------



## Gromit (May 5, 2009)

If i was a business user i'd quite like one of those curves.

But i'm not. I'm a recreational user and prefer my iPhone's larger screen for internet and access to a wide wide range of cheap aps.


----------



## g force (May 5, 2009)

Well RIM has built a strong brand and I'd assume that could be done to some of the deals available in the US - I have friends who pay about £7 a month for unlimited data on their BB's and BOGOF deals for people living at the "same address"!! It's an absolute steal on Verizon. The Curve is a nice handset much better than the Pearl or Storm.

If only they could sort out the web browser and some UI quirks and I'd genuinely love it rather than think it's okay. Apple's one carrier policy could now be hurting them - i wouldn't consider them in the UK as 02 reception is non existent in my flat or nearby.


----------



## Structaural (May 5, 2009)

Myst is a 1.5gb download! (because of the way the iPhone stores data). They've re-rendered it in high-res for the iPhone which is sort of funny.


----------



## Structaural (May 5, 2009)

Blackberry are more likely to give the phone away unlike those profit-mongers Apple.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Bloody tricky choosing the next phone...



Yep. I've decided I'm going to wait until July and choose amongst what is out then. Can't be arsed to wait any longer and my Palm Centro is showing signs of soon to be dying...at this point I want the Pre but if it Palm don't release by July in the UK I reckon I'll get the new 32 gig iPhone...


----------



## Kanda (May 5, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Blackberry are more likely to give the phone away unlike those profit-mongers Apple.


 
Isn't it the networks choice how much the phone goes for??

We still pay about £200 for BB's on corporate accounts.

Some are having iPhones now though.


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep. I've decided I'm going to wait until July and choose amongst what is out then. Can't be arsed to wait any longer and my Palm Centro is showing signs of soon to be dying...at this point I want the Pre but if it Palm don't release by July in the UK I reckon I'll get the new 32 gig iPhone...



I am pretty sure that I am going to take the new iPhone. 

The main issue is that although the iPhone seems the best (at least for me) I will have to be locked to a contract of 18 months or more it seems. That is bearable but 18 months means a lot of change in the smartphone world and I would prefer the Android platform if they had a handest close to the iPhone. 

I have stuck with Sony Ericsson for a long number of years but can't see anything I want now.


----------



## g force (May 5, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Isn't it the networks choice how much the phone goes for??
> 
> We still pay about £200 for BB's on corporate accounts.
> 
> Some are having iPhones now though.



Our IT team refuses to support iPhones and also because we have a global deal with Vodafone and they have 'security concerns' although I suspect that's IT speak for "we can't be arsed having to manage something else".

Vodafone give us 10 free handsets of each model (Pearl, Curve, Storm)....we currnetly have 8 Storm's just sitting in a cupboard as all the initial users asked for a Curve


----------



## Kanda (May 5, 2009)

g force said:


> Our IT team refuses to support iPhones and also because we have a global deal with Vodafone and they have 'security concerns' although I suspect that's IT speak for "we can't be arsed having to manage something else".
> 
> Vodafone give us 10 free handsets of each model (Pearl, Curve, Storm)....we currnetly have 8 Storm's just sitting in a cupboard as all the initial users asked for a Curve


 
Yeah, we had a *hardware budget* allocated for BB's when we signed up for our corporate deal, sadly that ran out ages ago so we have to pay for new ones now. They get broken all the bloody time


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

Badgers said:


> That is bearable but 18 months means a lot of change in the smartphone world and I would prefer the Android platform if they had a handest close to the iPhone.


Their new G2 looks pretty similar, I'd say.


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2009)

editor said:


> Their new G2 looks pretty similar, I'd say.



It does seem closer but not quite there.
Also it is on Vodafone who I don't rate for service. 

T-mobile seem to have the best tariffs but crap coverage
O2 have good service and excusive on the iPhone 
Vodafone have best coverage, exclusive on the G2 but don't like customer service

Tricky


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

Badgers said:


> I am pretty sure that I am going to take the new iPhone.
> 
> The main issue is that although the iPhone seems the best (at least for me) I will have to be locked to a contract of 18 months or more it seems. That is bearable but 18 months means a lot of change in the smartphone world and I would prefer the Android platform if they had a handest close to the iPhone.
> 
> I have stuck with Sony Ericsson for a long number of years but can't see anything I want now.



Yeah I know, I don't relish a 18 month contract but it's getting harder to get a decent phone on anything less than without buying upfront. I like the look of Android but the handsets really aren't there yet. I can't see anything getting anywhere near the iPhone for at least another year. Which by then will mean I'll have roughly 6 months left on a contract which isn't too bad.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

*Apple Signals Gaming Ambitions*

Wow. If this is true this is massive! EA are one of the biggest games publishers in the world, they own a huge catalogue of games (and games devs), if this comes to pass Nintendo and Sony will be bricking even more than they already are. 



> iPhone maker Apple is rumoured to be interested in buying Electronic Arts, according to professional investor Guy Adami.
> 
> Adami said “that there is chatter that Apple is eyeing Electronic Arts as a takeover target” in an article posted on The Street.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (May 5, 2009)

That fuels my speculation that the next iPhone (or perhaps a specific model of the iPhone) will cater to games a lot better with perhaps a pad and buttons or something along those lines.  

That'd spoil the clean lines. I'm not in for the hardware being different across the models either. 

Hmm...Perhaps a touch dpad around the home button?


----------



## Sunray (May 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah I know, I don't relish a 18 month contract but it's getting harder to get a decent phone on anything less than without buying upfront. I like the look of Android but the handsets really aren't there yet. I can't see anything getting anywhere near the iPhone for at least another year. Which by then will mean I'll have roughly 6 months left on a contract which isn't too bad.



This was exactly my thinking when I got one last year, so enjoyed having it and couldn't imagine not having it for the last year.  I look forward to the new software that the new v3 will enable.


----------



## Kanda (May 5, 2009)

Sunray said:


> That fuels my speculation that the next iPhone (or perhaps a specific model of the iPhone) will cater to games a lot better with perhaps a pad and buttons or something along those lines.
> 
> That'd spoil the clean lines. I'm not in for the hardware being different across the models either.
> 
> Hmm...Perhaps a touch dpad around the home button?


 

Football game I have on the iPhone has a touch Dpad and buttons on screen.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

Sunray said:


> That fuels my speculation that the next iPhone (or perhaps a specific model of the iPhone) will cater to games a lot better with perhaps a pad and buttons or something along those lines.
> 
> That'd spoil the clean lines. I'm not in for the hardware being different across the models either.
> 
> Hmm...Perhaps a touch dpad around the home button?



I'm not convinced they will go down that route (the Wii for eg does very well despite rejecting for the most part traditional control systems), people are far more easy now about non standard controls when it comes to games. 

I've long thought that Apple will be a big player in the games market and stand by the view that is a good thing.

I actually hope Apple does buy EA, it will shake the games industry big time!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Football game I have on the iPhone has a touch Dpad and buttons on screen.



I think Sunray is talking about a physical pad...


----------



## g force (May 5, 2009)

Employing someone who worked on the GameCube...oh dear. EA may have a massive catalogue but it's based on yearly updates. Doubt Nintendo will lose much sleep given the market the DS is squarely aimed at.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

g force said:


> Employing someone who worked on the GameCube...oh dear. EA may have a massive catalogue but it's based on yearly updates. Doubt Nintendo will lose much sleep given the market the DS is squarely aimed at.



Nintendo updated the DS to DSi in response to the iPhone/touch, I'd say that's a pretty good indication they are concerned. 

EA may do yearly updates for the most part but they sell and have huge brand recognition. Imagine if Apple buys EA then focuses it on releasing games on the iPhone first? No console can survive without a good range of third party content (it was one of the reasons the GC didn't fare as well), EA are one of the biggest providers of it.


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah I know, I don't relish a 18 month contract but it's getting harder to get a decent phone on anything less than without buying upfront. I like the look of Android but the handsets really aren't there yet. I can't see anything getting anywhere near the iPhone for at least another year. Which by then will mean I'll have roughly 6 months left on a contract which isn't too bad.



I have managed to avoid 18 month tariffs to date but it does seem to be the way of things.


----------



## Kanda (May 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I think Sunray is talking about a physical pad...


 
Yeah, I know. I was just letting him know there are games out there with the pad in a touch screen variety.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I actually hope Apple does buy EA, it will shake the games industry big time!


That would be a dreadful move for the industry and for consumers. We need more independents and more competition, not an ever decreasing number of mega-corparations controlling who gets what.


----------



## Kanda (May 5, 2009)

editor said:


> That would be a dreadful move for the industry and for consumers. We need more independents and more competition, not an ever decreasing number of mega-corparations controlling who gets what.


 
Most of EA's product is done by smaller software houses. They just have the clout to publish the titles developed by other software houses.

So, being owned by Apple, Apple will just give a bit more clout to smaller software houses by providing assistance to develop on their products.

This is the way Sega operated, especially after the demise of the Dreamcast, they just published others games.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

Kanda said:


> So, being owned by Apple, Apple will just give a bit more clout to smaller software houses by providing assistance to develop on their products.


Yes. And they'll be games designed exclusively for the Apple platform, or they'll be released first on that one platform, thus limiting choice and reducing competition in the marketplace. 

Big companies don't buy up smaller companies out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it to increase profits, increase market share and offer something that their competition hasn't got.

Apple buying EA would be a dreadful move for non-Apple users.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

editor said:


> That would be a dreadful move for the industry and for consumers. We need more independents and more competition, not an ever decreasing number of mega-corparations controlling who gets what.



It would add a fourth player to the market. It would give 'bed room' coders a fantastic way in to making games (after all making games for Apple is practically Utopian compared to making them for Nintendo). 

Adding a fourth major player rather than it just being three actually broadens the choice for consumers, iPhone games could conceivably impact the cost of games at retail too bringing prices down which again is a good thing. 

I'm basing my view on the reality as it stands in the games industry not some ideal of what it should be.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

Badgers said:


> I have managed to avoid 18 month tariffs to date but it does seem to be the way of things.



Yep and 24 month contracts are the new 18 monthers...


----------



## Structaural (May 5, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Isn't it the networks choice how much the phone goes for??
> 
> We still pay about £200 for BB's on corporate accounts.
> 
> Some are having iPhones now though.



Yeah, you're right it's the network (Verizon) but I don't think Blackberry take money from each contract/call like Apple which must help them be more competitive, I don't know for sure though.

Who are buying these Blackberry Storms though


----------



## sim667 (May 5, 2009)

editor said:


> Apple buying EA would be a dreadful move for non-Apple users.



But great for apple users yeah?


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm basing my view on the reality as it stands in the games industry not some ideal of what it should be.


Could you give some examples where a massive corporation sucking up a leading independent has resulted in  more increased consumer choice all round? Why do Apple need to buy up a successful independent to become a 'player'? 

Such an acquisition would only strengthen Apple's brand and product profile at the expense of their rivals. 

All perfectly understandable from Apple's standpoint of course, but definitely not good news for consumers in general.





sim667 said:


> But great for apple users yeah?


Of course. But I'm more concerned about the bigger picture than just the success of one individual uber-corporate. Competition and independence is good.


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2009)

EA is hardly an 'independent' - in the gamin world it's the biggest fish, a corporate behemoth in the style of MS or Apple. It's consumed many smaller fish before it and in mamny ways is a Bad Thing for the industry as its size enables it to dominate retailers and advertising.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

Interesting: 





> Apple employs Nintendo veteran
> And hires former Xbox evangelist, sets tongues a-wagging
> 
> Apple has recently employed games industry veteran Bob Drebin, best known as the man responsible for the GameCube's graphic processor.
> ...


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

Crispy said:


> EA is hardly an 'independent' - in the gamin world it's the biggest fish, a corporate behemoth in the style of MS or Apple. It's consumed many smaller fish before it and in mamny ways is a Bad Thing for the industry as its size enables it to dominate retailers and advertising.


Compared to the revenues of MS or Apple, EA is but a tiddler.


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2009)

I don't think Apple is going to buy any primary content companies, especially music ones. They're all straitjacketed by contracts and licenses and entrenched management strategies. I think apple have a stronger position as a gatekeeper for online distribution, than having to deal with the nitty gritty of producing content in the first place. It's considerably less risky.


----------



## Kanda (May 5, 2009)

editor said:


> Compared to the revenues of MS or Apple, EA is but a tiddler.



As are most companies...


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2009)

editor said:


> Compared to the revenues of MS or Apple, EA is but a tiddler.


In absolute terms yes, but in their respective ponds, they're at the top of the food chain.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

Crispy said:


> In absolute terms yes, but in their respective ponds, they're at the top of the food chain.


So do you think it would be  good for consumers and the industry in general if EA was swallowed up by Apple?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

editor said:


> Compared to the revenues of MS or Apple, EA is but a tiddler.



I thought EA makes roughly a third (something like 3.5 bill) of Apple's take? Hardly makes them a tiddler really...


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I thought EA makes roughly a third (something like 3.5 bill) of Apple's take? Hardly makes them a tiddler really...


*sigh.

I wish you'd do your research before posting.

According to the Fortune 500 list of 2008, Electronics Arts are ranked in 660th place with $3bn revenue and just 76m profits.

Compare that with Microsoft in 44th place  with $51bn revenue, $14bn profits and Apple in 103rd place with  $24bn revenue and  $3.5bn profits and however you spin it, they're a tiddler in comparison. 

I would have thought that the vast gulf between the companies was  ruddy obvious, but I've written it out for you.

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune500/2008/companies/E.html


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2009)

editor said:


> So do you think it would be  good for consumers and the industry in general if EA was swallowed up by Apple?


no


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

Crispy said:


> no


Cool. We agree


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2009)

editor said:


> Cool. We agree


it was never in doubt


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

editor said:


> *sigh.
> 
> I wish you'd do your research before posting.
> 
> ...



Oh dear I got a few figures wrong in my haste earlier, hardly the end of the world. 

If you understood the games industry you'd see quite easily why another player to fuck with the current order is a good thing. It will provoke more competition and put pressure on the price of games at retail which is a great thing speaking as a gamer!


----------



## editor (May 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If you understood the games industry ....


Yes, whatever you say. You've proved your knowledge here already.


----------



## Kanda (May 5, 2009)

Well.. he's right really.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2009)

Amusing aint it, Editor in talking out his arse shocker, he's never done that before! 

Anyway, moving here's another Apple gonna buy something rumour, apparently it's looking at buying Twitter for $700 million. Can't see it myself or any good reason for Apple to own it really...



> If you have been trawling the web in the hopeless search for some piece of news that's completely stunning, how about the "rumour" being repeated (suspiciously similarly) by TechCrunch's Michael Arrington and Valleywag that Apple is in "late-stage" talks to buy Twitter - yes, that Twitter - for $700m, to be announced at WWDC in June?
> 
> But before we deconstruct, we must construct. Here's the TechCrunch post; here's Valleywag.
> 
> The TechCrunch post rather weirdly has "Google got shut down" in its headline - perhaps meaning that Google got frozen out if/when it approached Twitter with an offer (don't take the idea that Google made any approach as gospel) and then launches into it:"Apple is in late stage negotiations to buy Twitter and is hoping to announce it at WWDC in June," said a normally reliable source this evening, adding that the purchase price would be $700 million in cash.​


----------



## Sunray (May 6, 2009)

Apple buying Twitter is up there with ebay buying Skype.

What possible business 'synergy' could they ever have?  Still ebay did, for billions and now are now going to IPO it at some future juncture probably for a few million as that's all its worth.

700 Million for what?  Some servers and some advertising revenue? I think Apple probably make more money in one day off the App store than Twitter's ever made.


----------



## g force (May 6, 2009)

Twitter is a fad right now and I see littel opportunity for it to generate any sort of revenue. If they start putting ads on it they'll kill it quicker than anything else.


----------



## Gromit (May 6, 2009)

I wonder if they are just considering using Twitter to post their 'cool' profile.

Twitter is the latest myspace, blogger.com, facebook etc. cool fad.

Apple like to be seen as hip and cool. So if you think cool Twitter you then also think cool Apple by association.

Still 700 million is a lot of money to spend on PR. They must be thinking that there is a way to squeeze some money out of it.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Amusing aint it, Editor in talking out his arse shocker, he's never done that before!


Maybe you're still feeling a bit foolish after posting your laughably inaccurate figures about EA, but how about respecting my right to have a different opinion to you on rhetorical matters? It might make the discussion more enjoyable all round.

@marius: Twitter may be 'cool' right now and enjoying explosive growth, but it's losing new users at a frightening rate, with the majority leaving the service after a month.


----------



## g force (May 6, 2009)

Exactly...Twitter has all the makings of a fad - it has very little 'value' as an company aside from generating column inches.


----------



## Gromit (May 6, 2009)

Well I did say it was a fad. 

It does generate a lot of column inches though due to the number of celebrities using it and the feeling of direct access to them it generates.


----------



## Badgers (May 6, 2009)

editor said:


> losing new users at a frightening rate, with the majority leaving the service after a month.



I must be in the 'minority' as I left within a week


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 6, 2009)

editor said:


> Maybe you're still feeling a bit foolish after posting your laughably inaccurate figures about EA, but how about respecting my right to have a different opinion to you on rhetorical matters? It might make the discussion more enjoyable all round.
> 
> @marius: Twitter may be 'cool' right now and enjoying explosive growth, but it's losing new users at a frightening rate, with the majority leaving the service after a month.



Not at all, no body gets everything right all the time, you shrug it off and move on. Unlike you who can't seem to deal with ever being wrong...


----------



## editor (May 6, 2009)

Badgers said:


> I must be in the 'minority' as I left within a week


I keep going back to it because it's something I have to know about because of my job but it's only ever become remotely useful at the G20 protests - and even then, I'd rather be getting involved with what's going on in the real world rather that staring at my phone and fucking Twittering about it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 6, 2009)

Badgers said:


> I must be in the 'minority' as I left within a week



Depends on your needs, it's a must for anyone working in anything remotely political theses days. And for covering live news events also. I find it very useful, have made contacts, and gained some real insights into things via it.


----------



## Sunray (May 6, 2009)

Badgers said:


> I must be in the 'minority' as I left within a week



I cut out the middle man all together.


----------



## Sunray (May 6, 2009)

Just watched the iPhone 2007 keynote by Steve Jobs for the 1st time.

Its a very good presentation, learnt stuff about the phone I didn't realise and if anyone wants to understand what the phone can do, its worth a watch. 

You will be forgiven if you want to use your newly purchased iPhone to trigger explosives and kill off the crowd at the next Apple keynote, clearly saving humanity in the process.

http://www.apple.com/quicktime/qtv/mwsf07/


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 6, 2009)

Twitter is a fad, "lol". It's been going for several years. If you've only just heard about it, you have failed.


and Apple are patently not going to buy it


----------



## Badgers (May 8, 2009)

Email from O2 
Apparently I am 'in O2 Priority List silver' whatever the fuck that means. 

So I get an upgrade a month earlier than planned. 
This means my upgrade was due on the 06th of May and I could be holding an iPhone right now.


----------



## sim667 (May 8, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Email from O2
> Apparently I am 'in O2 Priority List silver' whatever the fuck that means.
> 
> So I get an upgrade a month earlier than planned.
> This means my upgrade was due on the 06th of May and I could be holding an iPhone right now.



excellent


how much is it for you to upgrade?


----------



## Badgers (May 8, 2009)

sim667 said:


> excellent
> 
> 
> how much is it for you to upgrade?



Not sure I am gonna with the potential new model coming. 
I have a pretty high tariff and was offered one free before.


----------



## Badgers (May 8, 2009)

I am losing it a bit now...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 8, 2009)

LOL! My bloody Palm Centro keeps fucking up, crashing, freezing during calls to the point it's interfering with work etc. If it wasn't for the new iPhone (and maybe even the Pre) coming soon I reckon I'd giving in to the current one without a second thought...


----------



## Badgers (May 9, 2009)

Stoopid innit. 

My current phone (SE C902) although one of the reason for wanting the upgrade (aside from the iPhone) is that I want to pass the C902 to wifey. 
I love a good upgrade but now waiting to see when Apple release the new phone and how they price up this given that a lot of people are waiting for it. 

Link here guessing June 8th release - http://www.businessinsider.com/apple-likely-to-unveil-new-iphone-june-8-2009-3


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 9, 2009)

June 8th is only a few weeks away...!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 10, 2009)

Looks like the new iPhone might have a compass built in, in a shameless G1 ripoff 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/05/08/iphone_compass/


----------



## Sunray (May 10, 2009)

lol a compass, I'm forever cursing the lack of a compass.


----------



## editor (May 10, 2009)

Sunray said:


> lol a compass, I'm forever cursing the lack of a compass.


I wish the Palm Pre came with a digital compass. It opens up some really interesting app possibilities as you'll no doubt see with the new iPhone.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 10, 2009)

Sunray said:


> lol a compass, I'm forever cursing the lack of a compass.



Can you honestly not see the potential it has in terms of location based apps 


Try Skymap for starters...


----------



## Badgers (May 10, 2009)

editor said:


> Here's Trent Reznor's (from rockers Nine Inch Nails) reaction to having his app rejected by Apple. He's not a happy bunny.



Score one for Trent it seems



> Apple have refused to explain their change of heart, saying: "It's not something we comment on."


----------



## editor (May 11, 2009)

Jobsy's off again:



> *Apple rejects Bittorrent control app from App Store because it might be used to infringe copyrights*
> 
> Sigh. Just as we thought Apple's ridiculous App Store approval process was about to get better with the advent of parental controls in iPhone OS 3.0, it goes and pulls another boneheaded move that makes us wonder if the entire system isn't hopelessly broken forever.
> 
> ...


----------



## Crispy (May 11, 2009)

Aargh! Safari is often used to infringe 3rd party rights. Gonna ban your own software, apple?
(PS: Clutch is an add-on for Transmission that lets you control it over the net via any browser)


----------



## jæd (May 11, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Aargh! Safari is often used to infringe 3rd party rights. Gonna ban your own software, apple?
> (PS: Clutch is an add-on for Transmission that lets you control it over the net via any browser)



Last time I looked this was already part of Transmission – on Mac and Linux at least...


----------



## Sunray (May 11, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Can you honestly not see the potential it has in terms of location based apps
> 
> 
> Try Skymap for starters...



There is a very similar application I've not downloaded for the iPhone.

This enables one application, proper Sat Nav, without it, it can't tell if you've made the turn it suggested.

Thats about it on the useful front, the rest are just toy applications.


----------



## editor (May 11, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Thats about it on the useful front, the rest are just toy applications.


Have you not seen this amazing new program?


> Google is preparing to launch a mobile phone application called Star Droid that can help amateur astronomers identify stars and planets
> 
> The search engine software will use GPS technology to compare the position of the phone user with existing maps of space, attaching name tags to the stars and planets that can be seen through the phone's viewfinder.


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sciencea...elp-mobile-phone-users-study-night-skies.html


----------



## Gromit (May 11, 2009)

.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 11, 2009)

I'm waiting for someone to give Memory Map a run for their money on mobiles. Sure you can have your place marked on an OS map, but the interface is so clunky and they seem to have no intrest in updating it.

Competition here would definitely be a good thing.


----------



## Sunray (May 11, 2009)

editor said:


> Have you not seen this amazing new program?
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sciencea...elp-mobile-phone-users-study-night-skies.html



Been out for the iPhone for a while but without googles might behind it.

http://www.star-map.fr/


----------



## editor (May 11, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Been out for the iPhone for a while but without googles might behind it.
> 
> http://www.star-map.fr/


It costs €10-€19. There's also seems to be quite a few differences between the apps.


----------



## Sunray (May 11, 2009)

I think that's fairly reasonable for what looks like a nicely written application.

Clearly if Google release it for free its going to undercut them, might be different sort of application?  Dunno, not something I'm particularly interested in.  

Going back to the original point, its hardly slapping down lots of reasons for a compass.  Not that I am going to complain about getting a compass as proper Sat Nav on my phone will be an astoundingly useful addition to an already great gadget.  Roll on iPhone2 TomTom.


----------



## editor (May 11, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Going back to the original point, its hardly slapping down lots of reasons for a compass.  Not that I am going to complain about getting a compass as proper Sat Nav on my phone will be an astoundingly useful addition to an already great gadget.  Roll on iPhone2 TomTom.


The compass looks pretty nifty on the Street View app too, IMO. How long have you got before you can change contract and upgrade?


----------



## paolo (May 12, 2009)

Amusing me at the moment is Mike Skinner's almost breathless CAPITALISED OMG tweets on seeing 3.0 beta.

(Amusing me, because he's normally a very measured, lowercased and smart twitterer... my favourite in fact. Way too sharp to be a musician.)


----------



## jæd (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> The compass looks pretty nifty on the Street View app too, IMO. How long have you got before you can change contract and upgrade?



Hopefully it should be a paid upgrade in July time....



paolo999 said:


> Amusing me at the moment is Mike Skinner's almost breathless CAPITALISED OMG tweets on seeing 3.0 beta.



Why...? Its available to all iPhone developers and there's oodles of pics around the Internet. Its a nice update.  Available for all users in June.


----------



## Sunray (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> The compass looks pretty nifty on the Street View app too, IMO. How long have you got before you can change contract and upgrade?



About 8 months.

I'm assuming that O2 will give me the upgrade option like last time for v1 phone users. That or I'll see if I can buy my old contract out if the new phone is worth getting early.


----------



## pk (May 12, 2009)

jæd said:
			
		

> Its a nice update.  Available for all users in June.



From what I can gather it's going to blow all the other smartphones into the cupboard marked : Redundant


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 12, 2009)

pk said:


> From what I can gather it's going to blow all the other smartphones into the cupboard marked : Redundant



From the rumours I've heard it's going to bring the iPhone up to date with what others have been doing for over 12 months now, with the usual fanbois being conned into thinking they're getting something cutting edge


----------



## Sunray (May 12, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> From the rumours I've heard it's going to bring the iPhone up to date with what others have been doing for over 12 months now, with the usual fanbois being conned into thinking they're getting something cutting edge



The iPhone is still the most 'cutting edge' phone out there to this moment, released in 2007.

Best interface, still looks great, best applications, head phone socket etc. 

All the so called 'iPhone killers' have been less than illustrious and say iPhone killer in the press release because that is about as close to actually doing the job as they actually get.

The Palm pre is the 1st and only smart phone that can genuinely take the iPhone on.  Its yet to be released.


----------



## pk (May 12, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> From the rumours I've heard it's going to bring the iPhone up to date with what others have been doing for over 12 months now, with the usual fanbois being conned into thinking they're getting something cutting edge



We shall see.  I can't think of any other smartphone I can use to control Reason, or to use as a Tenori-on. For example.


----------



## jæd (May 12, 2009)

Sunray said:


> The Palm pre is the 1st and only smart phone that can genuinely take the iPhone on.  Its yet to be released.



Unlikely, given its whopping great big 8 Gbs of memory.  It has an interesting but as yet unproven UI. I'm also a bit concerned about the lack of a definitive release date...


----------



## jæd (May 12, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> From the rumours I've heard it's going to bring the iPhone up to date with what others have been doing for over 12 months now, with the usual fanbois being conned into thinking they're getting something cutting edge



_Based on the online previews and demos_ it removes the ommissions the nay-sayers have repeatedly yapped on about. No doubt they will find new "problems" to repeatedly and predictably harp on about...


----------



## Crispy (May 12, 2009)

Bees has a point, there are gaping omissions in the current iphone - MMS, cut and paste, background notifications etc. But sunray is right that nothing has yet approcahed it for UI and general user experience.


----------



## jæd (May 12, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Bees has a point, there are gaping omissions in the current iphone - MMS, cut and paste, background notifications etc. But sunray is right that nothing has yet approcahed it for UI and general user experience.



"gaping omissions" that _in general, to the mass-market_ don't seem to have affected saleability...


----------



## editor (May 12, 2009)

jæd said:


> Unlikely, given its whopping great big 8 Gbs of memory.  It has an interesting but as yet unproven UI. I'm also a bit concerned about the lack of a definitive release date...


8GB will be fine for the majority of users (it certainly seemed enough for the millions who bought the first iPhone), the UI may be 'unproven' but Palm have an excellent heritage in the smartphone depatment and there is a definite release date: the first half of this year - i.e. in the next month, with Europe following afterwards.

I agree that it's frustrating that a UK release date hasn't been set, but that will make precious differece to everyday punters. They'll buy it if they like it, whenever it comes out.


Crispy said:


> Bees has a point, there are gaping omissions in the current iphone - MMS, cut and paste, background notifications etc. But sunray is right that nothing has yet approcahed it for UI and general user experience.


I agree. The iPhone's interface is a dream compared to everything that's come since - nothing really comes close - but it still lacks really basic, fundamental features that have been on other smartphones for years on end.


----------



## editor (May 12, 2009)

jæd said:


> "gaping omissions" that _in general, to the mass-market_ don't seem to have affected saleability...


Just because something sells a lot it doesn't mean it's beyond criticism. I'd wager that a vast amount of iPhone users would love to have video on their phones.


----------



## jæd (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Just because something sells a lot it doesn't mean it's beyond criticism. I'd wager that a vast amount of iPhone users would love to have video on their phones.



I take you mean a video camera...?


----------



## editor (May 12, 2009)

jæd said:


> I take you mean a video camera...?


Yes.


----------



## teuchter (May 12, 2009)

Sunray said:


> 'cutting edge' phone
> 
> head phone socket


----------



## jæd (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> 8GB will be fine for the majority of users (it certainly seemed enough for the millions who bought the first iPhone),



The first iPhone was June 2007. We've moved on since then and IMO users want more... I fully expected the Pre to have a memory card like the Centro. (?)



editor said:


> I agree that it's frustrating that a UK release date hasn't been set, but that will make precious differece to everyday punters. They'll buy it if they like it, whenever it comes out.



The majority of "everyday punters" still know zip about the Pre. In less than a month the new iPhone will be announced, along with the Apple Marketing Machine revving up... I hope Palm knows what its doing...!


----------



## Gromit (May 12, 2009)

jæd said:


> "gaping omissions" that _in general, to the mass-market_ don't seem to have affected saleability...


 
Many of those gaping ommisions are due to be fixed in 3.0.

Its mad that will have taken 2 years to fix em but better late than never.

I have the 16gb version and I'm only just over using half of it. So if they can make 16gb the cheap minimum I think it will be more than plenty for the average user.


----------



## Crispy (May 12, 2009)

jæd said:


> "gaping omissions" that _in general, to the mass-market_ don't seem to have affected saleability...



Did for me!


----------



## pk (May 12, 2009)

((((Palm))))


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 12, 2009)

Sunray said:


> The iPhone is still the most 'cutting edge' phone out there to this moment, released in 2007.
> 
> Best interface, still looks great, best applications, head phone socket etc.
> 
> ...



Yep, there's never been an 'iPhone killa' to date. The Pre really is the best hope for that.


----------



## pk (May 12, 2009)

Marius said:


> Many of those gaping ommisions are due to be fixed in 3.0.
> 
> Its mad that will have taken 2 years to fix em but better late than never.
> 
> I have the 16gb version and I'm only just over using half of it. So if they can make 16gb the cheap minimum I think it will be more than plenty for the average user.



It's typical Apple "our paying customers will do the beta testing" modus operandi.


----------



## editor (May 12, 2009)

jæd said:


> The majority of "everyday punters" still know zip about the Pre. In less than a month the new iPhone will be announced, along with the Apple Marketing Machine revving up... I hope Palm knows what its doing...!


Most of them knew zip about the iPhone too before it was released too. Or the Wii, or a lot of other gadgets that went on to become successful. 

It's only techie spods like us that get in a froth about gizmos months before their release. Most punters wait until the adverts start up, the reviews come in and the products go on sale, and then make their choice accordingly.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> most punters wait until the adverts start up and the products go on sale, and make their choice accordingly.



This is why I think Palm have fucked themselves leaving the Pre launch so late, they simply don't have the financial clout to compete with the inevitable level of iHype.


----------



## hendo (May 12, 2009)

The latest rumours put the new iphone as having a beefed up chip with 32G of storage. Like the ed I was wary of being Mr Jobs's prisoner, but despite the obvious issue of Apple's effective command and control of my phone I am a very happy camper indeed.


----------



## Sunray (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Most of them knew zip about the iPhone too before it was released too. Or the Wii, or a lot of other gadgets that went on to become successful.
> 
> It's only techie spods like us that get in a froth about gizmos months before their release. Most punters wait until the adverts start up, the reviews come in and the products go on sale, and then make their choice accordingly.



There is also trickle down, at a festival with friends, here's the map app for navigaton,  oh  free internet here if you want it, oh seen this youtube video etc.

Then when they consider upgrading....


----------



## jæd (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Most of them knew zip about the iPhone too before it was released too. Or the Wii, or a lot of other gadgets that went on to become successful.



IIRC there was an appreciable buzz about the iPhone in the weeks before its launch. Non-techy mates were telling _me_ about how amazing the iPhone was and how it was going to change phones for evah...


----------



## editor (May 12, 2009)

Sunray said:


> There is also trickle down, at a festival with friends, here's the map app for navigaton,  oh  free internet here if you want it, oh seen this youtube video etc.
> 
> Then when they consider upgrading....


Yep: and then they look around to see what phones are available there and then (unlike us tech spods, who get all worked up about rumoured phones with features that may or not even happen - see hendo's post above).


----------



## editor (May 12, 2009)

jæd said:


> IIRC there was an appreciable buzz about the iPhone in the weeks before its launch. Non-techy mates were telling _me_ about how amazing the iPhone was and how it was going to change phones for evah...


No one can hope to compete with the amount of hype generated around Apple's products. In fact, not many firms can compete with their financial and advertising clout either, but it's worth noting that in the last quarter, iPhone sales went down and Blackberry's went up.

It's not all about 'the buzz.'


----------



## Kanda (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> No one can hope to compete with the amount of hype generated around Apple's products. In fact, not many firms can compete with their financial and advertising clout either, but it's worth noting that in the last quarter, iPhone sales went down and Blackberry's went up.
> 
> It's not all about 'the buzz.'


 
The buzz is that a new iPhone is due soon... maybe that caused the sales dip....


----------



## jæd (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> No one can hope to compete with the amount of hype generated around Apple's products.



But isn't this what Palm appears to be doing...? 



editor said:


> In fact, not many firms can compete with their financial and advertising clout either, but it's worth noting that in the last quarter, iPhone sales went down and Blackberry's went up.



Looking at one quarter in isolation is usually meaningless... It's also Apples and Oranges (or blackberries...  ) time. Blackberry has several different models, where as Apple only has one.


----------



## Structaural (May 12, 2009)

add the fact that Verizon were giving away the Curves and that the Blackberry is more often bought in big corporate deals and forced on the workforce.


----------



## Structaural (May 12, 2009)

hendo said:


> The latest rumours put the new iphone as having a beefed up chip with 32G of storage. Like the ed I was wary of being Mr Jobs's prisoner, but despite the obvious issue of Apple's effective command and control of my phone I am a very happy camper indeed.



Shame they're not improving the screen. It's crap in bright sunlight.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Most of them knew zip about the iPhone too before it was released too. Or the Wii, or a lot of other gadgets that went on to become successful.
> 
> It's only techie spods like us that get in a froth about gizmos months before their release. Most punters wait until the adverts start up, the reviews come in and the products go on sale, and then make their choice accordingly.



Replace reviews with chatting to their mates, checking them out in shops and I'd agree with some of this. I don't know anyone other than people like us that read reviews when it comes to choosing a phone...


----------



## Kanda (May 12, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Replace reviews with chatting to their mates, checking them out in shops and I'd agree with some of this. I don't know anyone other than people like us that read reviews when it comes to choosing a phone...


 
I get asked a fair bit. I just say iPhone


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 12, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I get asked a fair bit. I just say iPhone


----------



## jæd (May 12, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Replace reviews with chatting to their mates, checking them out in shops and I'd agree with some of this. I don't know anyone other than people like us that read reviews when it comes to choosing a phone...



This is my experience as well. And anytime a mate has a new phone I'll always spend a few minutes playing with it just to see how it is...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 12, 2009)

jæd said:


> This is my experience as well. And anytime a mate has a new phone I'll always spend a few minutes playing with it just to see how it is...



Yep. When I got my old XDA a few years (back when there weren't many phones with a big touch screen) everyone wanted to have a look, muck about with it. People who are into things read reviews (see film goers, how many read a review of a film rather than word of mouth or just watching a trailer?)...


----------



## editor (May 12, 2009)

Jesus banned from AppStore!





> Apple has rejected an iPhone app that would enable users to fashion their mugs into portraits resembling Jesus Christ.
> 
> The app, called Me So Holy, involves using the iPhone’s camera to snap a mug shot of someone, which can then be scaled and cropped to replace Jesus’ face. Apple rejected the app, saying it “contains objectionable material,” according to Me So Holy developer Benjamin Kahle.
> 
> ...



(((wannabe Jesus-faced iphone users)))


----------



## jæd (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Jesus banned from AppStore!
> 
> (((wannabe Jesus-faced iphone users)))



I want a Mohammed, Prophet of Islam version...!  ((~{>


----------



## Lazy Llama (May 12, 2009)

I'm sure it'll be out on the Pre and Android within days.


----------



## sim667 (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Most of them knew zip about the iPhone too before it was released too. Or the Wii, or a lot of other gadgets that went on to become successful.
> 
> It's only techie spods like us that get in a froth about gizmos months before their release. Most punters wait until the adverts start up, the reviews come in and the products go on sale, and then make their choice accordingly.



Then buy it and dont use a single feature on it

My housemates boyfreind bought one after i got one, installed a few free apps, but apart from that doesnt use any of the features

My housemate then got one for her birthday, hasnt set up her email, music, apps etc..... she's had it 9 months.


----------



## Sunray (May 12, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Then buy it and dont use a single feature on it
> 
> My housemates boyfreind bought one after i got one, installed a few free apps, but apart from that doesnt use any of the features
> 
> My housemate then got one for her birthday, hasnt set up her email, music, apps etc..... she's had it 9 months.



Thats extreme fail.  Does she still use an iPod as her mp3 player?


----------



## editor (May 12, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Thats extreme fail.  Does she still use an iPod as her mp3 player?


I know quite a few people - usually more well heeled than most - who convince themselves (and people around them) that they _really_ need some shiny, high end gear and then end up barely using a single feature - if they haven't already got bored and started lusting after the latest, upgraded model (complete with NEW features they're equally unlikely to ever use).


----------



## Gromit (May 12, 2009)

I've bought phones and never used half the features cause it was too much like hard work.

The iPhone is the first phone where I'm using all sorts of things on it and on a daily basis. Its the easy to use UI thats accomplished this.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 12, 2009)

Marius said:


> I've bought phones and never used half the features cause it was too much like hard work.
> 
> The iPhone is the first phone where I'm using all sorts of things on it and on a daily basis. Its the easy to use UI thats accomplished this.



Yep, I've heard exactly that from a couple of iPhone users.


----------



## editor (May 12, 2009)

Marius said:


> I've bought phones and never used half the features cause it was too much like hard work.
> 
> The iPhone is the first phone where I'm using all sorts of things on it and on a daily basis. Its the easy to use UI thats accomplished this.


Trying to find some features on some Symbian/WM phones is like going on a voyage of discovery. On drugs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Trying to find some features on some Symbian/WM phones is like going on a voyage of discovery. On drugs.



Symbian was far worse ime, I used to get really fucked off trying to remember where things where. WM was a bit annoying but not that bad...


----------



## Crispy (May 12, 2009)

Well WM at least pretends to be windows. Start, Control Panel and so on.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 12, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Symbian was far worse ime, I used to get really fucked off trying to remember where things where. WM was a bit annoying but not that bad...



I always just put shortcuts on my homescreen.


----------



## pk (May 13, 2009)

"me so holy"

Genius. Fuck the iPhone puritanical bullshit, Sony tried that with Blu Ray... how long did that last?? 







Give it up Apple, or get hacked. Nobody needs or wants your censorship.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 13, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> I always just put shortcuts on my homescreen.



Yeah but on a n73 or the like you can't have everything shortcutted...


----------



## elevendayempire (May 14, 2009)

Hm, here's a weird one - the album artwork's vanishing on some albums when I hold my iPod Touch vertically, but it reappears when I turn it to horizontal...


----------



## sim667 (May 14, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Thats extreme fail.  Does she still use an iPod as her mp3 player?



She doesnt have an mp3 player


----------



## teuchter (May 14, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah but on a n73 or the like you can't have everything shortcutted...



You can have just about everything shortcutted.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 14, 2009)

teuchter said:


> You can have just about everything shortcutted.



Sorry, I meant you can't have everything shortcutted in terms of screen space...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 14, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Sorry, I meant you can't have everything shortcutted in terms of screen space...



Then you just move them out the folder and onto the main screen for choosing programmes. Cool thing about the large screen on my E61 was you could fit loads more on the home screen though.

I do know what you mean about some of the options in Symbian being a pain in the arse to find, but once set up, I found it ok.


----------



## sim667 (May 14, 2009)

Simplify 2 has come out, and it seems a lot faster......

If you dont know what simplify is, its an app you run on your computer and your iphone, which means you can stream music wirelessly to your phone, and yes it works on 3G so u can use it anywhere.

You can also have up to 30 freinds and it will share all their music with you, and vice versa whenever both your computers are online. I've got 1 or 2 spaces left so if anyone wants to add me feel free U/N = Sim667


----------



## Structaural (May 15, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Simplify 2 has come out, and it seems a lot faster......
> 
> If you dont know what simplify is, its an app you run on your computer and your iphone, which means you can stream music wirelessly to your phone, and yes it works on 3G so u can use it anywhere.
> 
> You can also have up to 30 freinds and it will share all their music with you, and vice versa whenever both your computers are online. I've got 1 or 2 spaces left so if anyone wants to add me feel free U/N = Sim667



I needed that last weekend, cheers for the heads-up.


----------



## Badgers (May 20, 2009)

July 17th?
http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/05/20/new-iphone-to-be-released-on-july-17-with-oled-display/


----------



## Sunray (May 20, 2009)

Badgers said:


> July 17th?
> http://www.unwiredview.com/2009/05/20/new-iphone-to-be-released-on-july-17-with-oled-display/



That would make me upgrade.  That OLED display makes for a much longer battery life.  FM transmitter would be an ace upgrade.  So useful in cars.

Hope for a black model.


----------



## Crispy (May 20, 2009)

mmmmm OLED  yum


----------



## Kanda (May 20, 2009)

According to Macrumours... doubtful:



> - Wired recaps some poorly sourced rumors that claim the next iPhone will be released on July 17th with 1.5x the battery life and an OLED screen. We aren't putting too much faith in these reports.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 20, 2009)

Sunray said:


> FM transmitter would be an ace upgrade.  So useful in cars.



Are they legit now in the UK? Those mini FM transmitters?


----------



## editor (May 20, 2009)

There's some really juicy rumoured specs for the new iPhone (the 1.5x battery life being a real persuader) but I hope the one about the backlit Apple logo on the back isn't true. Not only would it look fucking ridiculous (who wants to be an advert for the phone they're using) but it'll be a mugger's magnet.

I've no need for a FM transmitter, but an FM radio would be ace.


----------



## Sunray (May 20, 2009)

I think having an FM radio is a bit old hat given that I have the iPlayer, LastFM and FStream and I am looking forward to Spotify in the near future.  My K800i had an RDS one, and that killed my battery and sounded terrible.  Only useful function was the radio alarm.

I would much prefer a FM transmitter meaning I can listen to my music just about anywhere that has an FM receiver, esp one that could monitor the radio spectrum for clear space and auto-tune itself.  I saw one of those transmitters that did that the other day.  I suppose with RDS its could also do the receiving radio?


----------



## Crispy (May 20, 2009)

can't imagine last.fm is much kinder to the battery than an FM radio...


----------



## editor (May 20, 2009)

FM Radios are preferable because they usually have a much lower impact on battery life than anything streamed over the Internet, and you can get a ton of local stations as you go along in the train.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 20, 2009)

editor said:


> but it'll be a mugger's magnet.



I don't see what difference it makes in that regard, surely the white headphones are enough of a draw for any street robber?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 20, 2009)

> *OLED touchscreen display (the resolution is not known)*
> 3.2MP camera with video recording (no Flash though)
> *GPS with turn by turn directions*
> Built-in compass
> ...



Nice sounding and enough to convince me to buy (assuming the Pre isn't out till October onwards)...!


----------



## editor (May 20, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't see what difference it makes in that regard, surely the white headphones are enough of a draw for any street robber?


Eh? You'll be lit up like a Christmas tree with the Apple logo broadcasting your expensive phone at night to one and all.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 20, 2009)

editor said:


> Eh? You'll be lit up like a Christmas tree with the Apple logo broadcasting your expensive phone at night to one and all.



And what kind of person walks down the road holding their phone in their hands? 

Face it you're imaginary band of Apple crazed street robbers metaphor is a bit of tabloid posting...


----------



## Sunray (May 20, 2009)

I am, I do it all the time now.  Rarely if ever put the phone to my head, use the headphones, usually listening to music when I get a call.

Bring on the glowing apple sign!  

Lets have some style over substance, its not like its on the worst phone in the world?


----------



## editor (May 20, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And what kind of person walks down the road holding their phone in their hands?
> 
> Face it you're imaginary band of Apple crazed street robbers metaphor is a bit of tabloid posting...


You're being wilfully obtuse.

You take a call in the street. You put the phone to your ear to talk. The back of the handset is now lit up by a big illuminated Apple logo. Unless you cover it with your other hand, it will be visible in the dark.

How on earth is it "tabloid" to suggest that an expensive phone advertising its presence in such an unusual and obvious way might attract unwanted attention? 

No other phone I can think of lights up on the back, and if the white cable was enough to spark off a string of muggings, I can't see why a big lit up phone wouldn't have a similar impact.

Either way, it's not even been confirmed if the phone will come with this daft piece of advertising.





Sunray said:


> Bring on the glowing apple sign!
> Lets have some style over substance, its not like its on the worst phone in the world?


It's an excellent phone, but I guess it depends on whether you're keen on being used as a walking advert or not.


----------



## Kanda (May 20, 2009)

Most iPhones I see are in cases.


----------



## Crispy (May 20, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nice sounding and enough to convince me to buy (assuming the Pre isn't out till October onwards)...!


Don't. I've used that samsung interface and it's HORRIBLE. iphone just pisses all over it in terms of usablility and responsiveness.


----------



## editor (May 20, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Don't. I've used that samsung interface and it's HORRIBLE. iphone just pisses all over it in terms of usablility and responsiveness.


I think he was quoting the rumoured new iPhone specs rather than getting excited over a horrid Samsung phone, despite the link in his post.

Either that or he's lost his tech marbles! I've never been remotely impressed by a Samsung phone, even though they're shifting them by the bucketload - 1.6m a month over two years! http://www.dialaphone.co.uk/blog/?p=3005


----------



## Sunray (May 20, 2009)

No huge leap for Apple, i wonder if they will make the 3g cheaper and keep it as a model?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 20, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Don't. I've used that samsung interface and it's HORRIBLE. iphone just pisses all over it in terms of usablility and responsiveness.



Oops, wrong link!


----------



## Gromit (May 20, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> Are they legit now in the UK? Those mini FM transmitters?



Yes they are now legal in the Uk. I have a Griffin one. It would be nice for people to have it as standard built in so all you'd need then would be an in car charger. 

They are rubbish if you live and drive around London mind. Every radio frequency seems to be used by someone in London. Very hard to find a clear channel.


----------



## Sunray (May 20, 2009)

91.5 is the best frequency I've found round London.  Its not perfect but its clear enough.


----------



## Badgers (May 21, 2009)

Sitting in the upgrade limbo is boring now.


----------



## Sunray (May 21, 2009)

To use the iPhone we have to wear natural fibres and use hand lotion, at least according to Apple.  

Clearly not cool enough to use it and the phone will switch off, 1 second after the warranty runs out.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2009)

Now it's getting really ridiculous - Apple have banned an app that can give access to tens of thousands of classic books because the user might just decide to download _one_ book that the prudish censors at Apple don't like - and that's a book from 1883!





> A British-made iPhone program has been banned by Apple - because it could allow people to read the Kama Sutra.
> 
> Eucalyptus, a book reading application developed by Edinburgh programmer James Montgomerie, allows users to download and read thousands of classic titles from the library of Project Gutenberg, the respected website that hosts out of copyright books.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (May 22, 2009)

That is the sort of thing that makes me reconsider my next phone purchase.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2009)

Sunray said:


> That is the sort of thing that makes me reconsider my next phone purchase.


The iPhone is a fucking great phone. If it had a keyboard there'd be nothing to touch it for me, but this creeping God-squad-esque moral bullshit scares the shit out of me.

Apple are a cool-as-fuck company, hugely influential and often lead where others follow, but you've got to ask where the fuck are they taking us with this near-moral fundamentalism and censorship? Straight into the land of Walmart?

I know I bang on too much about this, but it is important.


----------



## Badgers (May 22, 2009)

That is pettiness of the highest order. 
No matter how moral you think you fucking are the Kama Sutra is not a _bad_ book is it?


----------



## Gromit (May 22, 2009)

Badgers said:


> That is pettiness of the highest order.
> No matter how moral you think you fucking are the Kama Sutra is not a _bad_ book is it?



Apple aren't being moral. They are being scared. Over zelous lawyers one suspects. 

Say I'm a parent. I give an iPhone to my kid. I enable them to purchase aps from iTunes. My kid downloads the karma sutra onto their phone. I find out. I sue Apple for enabling this. They lose or settle. Loads of others will try it on.  

This is of course ridculous as the phone already comes with an ap that enable access to explict content. No parental control program for safari now is there.


----------



## jæd (May 22, 2009)

Marius said:


> Apple aren't being moral. They are being scared. Over zelous lawyers one suspects.
> 
> Say I'm a parent. I give an iPhone to my kid. I enable them to purchase aps from iTunes. My kid downloads the karma sutra onto their phone. I find out. I sue Apple for enabling this. They lose or settle. Loads of others will try it on.
> 
> This is of course ridculous as the phone already comes with an ap that enable access to explict content. No parental control program for safari now is there.



Firmware 3.0 supposedly has better parental controls to avoid this : http://www.9to5mac.com/itunes-parental-controls-3 . 

Of course, most kids would be able to get around this in seconds...! Its mostly for parental peace of mind. (And, yep having such things suck but you'll have to get Middle-America to change their attitudes on sex first...)


----------



## sim667 (May 22, 2009)

is this the point were we all start sending apple pictures of us watching hardcore pr0n on our iphones?


----------



## editor (May 22, 2009)

Marius said:


> Apple aren't being moral. They are being scared. Over zelous lawyers one suspects.


No, they're being moral. There is no conceivable legal case that could be brought against Apple - the user would have to manually type in the book's name to find it, and they could read the same content directly in the iPhone's browser anyway.

No other phone manufacturer does this. If people want to read 'dirty' books on their phone, it's none of Apple's fucking business. It's moral censorship, pure and simple and it stinks.

More coverage:
http://cultofmac.com/more-app-store...ple-multiple-times-for-no-reason-at-all/11033
http://technologizer.com/2009/05/21/the-iphone-app-censorship-madness-continues/

Interesting background (no f words on Apple products please!): 
http://technologizer.com/2009/03/10/apples-stance-on-iphone-app-language-is-silly-i-swear/


----------



## Sunray (May 22, 2009)

Its frustrating because its the only product out there that has all the features I want coupled with the ease of use.  

This is the standard US business model of working though, capture the market and then drive competition out.  Its cost US companies dear over time, the EU takes a far more strict line on these things.

I'm still puzzled, given the huge fines for Intel, how the iPhone can only have one carrier and how there is only one App store?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 22, 2009)

What it is is an indication that the iPhone approval process is basically fucked - slow, unpredictable and incredibly inconsistent. (There are already iPhone ebook readers which directly download from Gutenberg; Stanza for instance is very popular.) Approval decisions are certainly not the only thing devs complain about - they also complain about weird delays in approval and payment, lack of support, no explanations for anything and so on.

It increasingly looks to me that the process is becoming completely overwhelmed, and loads of individuals are making inconsistent decisions based on nonsensical interpretations of what are probably poorly-written and paranoid guidelines. Or alternatively everybody goes to work at the iPhone Approval Office on fucking drugs. "Not approved! This app turned me into a weasel!"


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 22, 2009)

I've just been reading the developer's blog post on it: http://www.blog.montgomerie.net/whither-eucalyptus

Tell me that's a process that knows its arse from its elbow


----------



## editor (May 22, 2009)

What worries me is that the author has been forced to rewrite his app to specifically exclude the offending book - and that's exactly what WalMart makes bands do if they take moral objection to a track on an album or even the artwork itself.

Just like with Apple, the artist is then forced to either compromise the integrity of their work to please these self-elected, corporate moral guardians, or take a huge financial hit by sticking to their guns and not having their work stocked.

And that's just wrong on every level.


----------



## Crispy (May 22, 2009)

editor said:


> What worries me is that the author has been forced to rewrite his app to specifically exclude the offending book - and that's exactly what WalMart makes bands do if they take moral objection to a track on an album or even the artwork itself.
> 
> Just like with Apple, the artist is then forced to either compromise the integrity of their work to please these self-elected, corporate moral guardians, or take a huge financial hit by sticking to their guns and not having their work stocked.
> 
> And that's just wrong on every level.


Agreed. I could just stomach apple rejecting apps that tread on their own turf - eg. an amazon MP3 downloader, but these recent cases are much worse than that. Apple need to open their approval process up and they need to manage it professionally, or developers are going to start looking at other platforms.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 22, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Agreed. I could just stomach apple rejecting apps that tread on their own turf - eg. an amazon MP3 downloader, but these recent cases are much worse than that. *Apple need to open their approval process up and they need to manage it professionally, or developers are going to start looking at other platforms.*



They won't have to with the position they have in the market. Without a serious competitor there's no reason why the majority of devs won't just put up with it because they want access to a massive market...


----------



## editor (May 22, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They won't have to with the position they have in the market. Without a serious competitor there's no reason why the majority of devs won't just put up with it because they want access to a massive market...


You don't think Blackberry, Android, WM and Symbian are serious competitors?


----------



## Crispy (May 22, 2009)

editor said:


> You don't think Blackberry, Android, WM and Symbian are serious competitors?


In the mobile phone market, maybe. But so far, not in the 3rd party app market.
(WM is a bit different - I imagine there's big corporate money in custom business apps)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 22, 2009)

It's the area where Android could be a serious competitor, if only a few more handsets were released with suitable marketing..


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 22, 2009)

Crispy said:


> In the mobile phone market, maybe. But so far, not in the 3rd party app market.
> (WM is a bit different - I imagine there's big corporate money in custom business apps)



Yep, show me the app store which can seriously compete with the iStore at the moment and I'll happily reconsider my view.


----------



## editor (May 23, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, show me the app store which can seriously compete with the iStore at the moment and I'll happily reconsider my view.


They may not have an app store as an outlet, but there's 'nuff developers who have made a ton of cash from developing high end apps for WM/Blackberry etc, and the market remains hugely lucrative. 

Although there's clearly pots of money to be made from developing apps for the iPhone, it's a monumentally crowded market and for every success there's a string of flops (if they get their app accepted in the first place, of course).

I sincerely hope more developers turn their back on Apple's monopolistic, moralistic and judgemental methods because I don't want to live in a WalMart world with corporates making decisions about what I can view on my own property.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 23, 2009)

I doubt WM, BB, and Symbian combined have delivered over a billion app downloads...the markets aren't the same and I think my point still stands. Unless Apple feels the heat off a competitor it'll just carry on regardless. Imo that's just how corporations work within the market. 

Don't get me wrong, stupid/inconsistent app approval systems is one thing but this Wallmartesque moralisng is quite another.


----------



## editor (May 23, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I doubt WM, BB, and Symbian combined have delivered over a billion app downloads...


I doubt it too, but it's worth bearing in mind that the vast majority of AppStore downloads are free/cheap as fuck and most are only every used once or twice and then never used again.

Blackberry/WM/Symbian apps tend to cost a whole load more, so while they may not match the impressive download tally, they can still bag developers a good return on their work.


----------



## Pie 1 (May 25, 2009)

Marius said:


> Apple aren't being moral. They are being scared. Over zelous lawyers one suspects.
> 
> Say I'm a parent. I give an iPhone to my kid. I enable them to purchase aps from iTunes. My kid downloads the karma sutra onto their phone. I find out. I sue Apple for enabling this.



Yet happilly sitting in the top 100 free apps are:

Suicide Girls: Flip Strip
Peek-a-Babe (app discription: "Hot girls wearing sexy lingerie - Need we say more?")
&
Beachspotter - more "hot babes in bikini's"

At least by downloading the Karma Sutra, some kids might have come out of it with a more respectful attitude to sex & women.

 @ apple apps approval


----------



## editor (May 25, 2009)

Apple have now done another of their u-turns and OK'd this app, no doubt as a result of the negative press attention. Perhaps they'll learn to keep their moralising hands off similar apps in the future.


----------



## Pie 1 (May 25, 2009)

They seriously need to get a grip.

But then the chances of Jobs & Co ever publicly admitting that they got something a bit wrong are about as good as Palm having a billion app downloads in the next year.

The sooner he goes, the better IMHO. Time for a change.


----------



## editor (May 25, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> They seriously need to get a grip.
> 
> But then the chances of Jobs & Co ever publicly admitting that they got something a bit wrong are about as good as Palm having a billion app downloads in the next year.
> 
> The sooner he goes, the better IMHO. Time for a change.


Do you think it's Jobs who is solely responsible for Apple's moralising and control-freakery?


----------



## Gromit (May 25, 2009)

I still think its more corporate decision than moral stance.

They want the iPhone to sell and sell lots.
If the iPhone gets associated with 18+ material it damages its rep with parents who control the big purchases of their kids.

Restricting aps to material that could legally be classed 15 or below seems to be there gameplan. As someone else pointed out, the Suicide Girls have an ap on there. If it was a moral policy that would have been blocked because of the links to their porn site. But as the ap itself contains no nudity it gets through.


----------



## Pie 1 (May 25, 2009)

editor said:


> Do you think it's Jobs who is solely responsible for Apple's moralising and control-freakery?



No, that's why I said Jobs & Co.
But I do think he's responsible for a sort of institutional control freakery that seems to have escalated dramatically with their staggering success in the consumer market over the past few years & tipped a little to far in the wrong direction. 
It's understandable, but I think it's time for him to let go now, tbf.


----------



## editor (May 25, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> No, that's why I said Jobs & Co.
> But I do think he's responsible for a sort of institutional control freakery that seems to have escalated dramatically with their staggering success in the consumer market over the past few years & tipped a little to far in the wrong direction.
> It's understandable, but I think it's time for him to let go now, tbf.


I guess if you create gadgets that are so desirable that the public are willing to let the company get away with some well dodgy moral filtering and monopolistic practices, then you're going to keep on doing it.

I do wonder how deep the control-freakery is ingrained in Apple's corporate culture now and whether replacing Jobs would make any difference. 

One thing is for sure: every time it looks like he's going, the share price plummets sharpish, such is the shadow he casts over the company.


----------



## Badgers (May 26, 2009)

They have backed down on the Karma Sutra thing too now 
http://www.nbr.co.nz/article/apple-backs-down-allows-adult-eucalyptus-app-102845


----------



## Structaural (May 27, 2009)

Just bought some Sennheiser MM 50 in-ear headphones to replace my, quite frankly, appalling Apple in-ear ones that unscrewed themselves and then I lost the bit. 

What a difference, wicked bass and tops, lovely design and best of all a built-in mic with button. They're like ear-plugs, cut out a lot of sound so I can turn the volume down. Recommended, though pricey at €69.


----------



## Crispy (May 27, 2009)

Although you still need a mac, you can now develop native iphone apps in HTML and javascript, kinda like the Pre. You can interact with all sorts of native APIs - address book, audio streaming etc.

http://www.nimblekit.com/


----------



## Gromit (May 27, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Just bought some Sennheiser MM 50 in-ear headphones to replace my, quite frankly, appalling Apple in-ear ones that unscrewed themselves and then I lost the bit.
> 
> What a difference, wicked bass and tops, lovely design and best of all a built-in mic with button. They're like ear-plugs, cut out a lot of sound so I can turn the volume down. Recommended, though pricey at €69.


 
I loved my folding Sennheiser headphones. Until I lost them on a train. No mic though.

I'd love a decent set of headphones with mic that don't hurt my ears by being too big (like the apple ones do). But whether i can bring myself to spend that sort of money is another matter.

ETA: I see Amazon are doing them for £35 but reviews elesewhere have critisised them for build quality saying that they break all too easily.


----------



## Structaural (May 29, 2009)

I'll let you know how they go  I should have got them from Amazon myself, damn that's cheap but I couldn't wait...


----------



## Sunray (May 29, 2009)

Front cover of the New Yorker was done on an iPhone. Quite impressive bit of work.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2009)

Not long now till we here about the new iPhone. Anyone care to speculate? What would you like to see?

For myself, a 32 gig iPhone would be a big temptation. Better camera would be nice too...


----------



## sumimasen (Jun 8, 2009)

Is this happening this week?


----------



## Sunray (Jun 8, 2009)

Its tomorrow at 6pm.

Better camera, auto focus with full video and video editing facilities and the ability to post from the app.
32Gb isn't so much of a thing for me,  I've found 16Gb to be enough with some fairly infrequent deletion of stuff I've not listened to for ages.
AMOLED display for both better display quality and 40% power saving giving the whole device more juice. 
2200mAh battery for 100% more power.
Off screen touch buttons for games.
Much faster CPU
Much faster GPU for games
More internal memory.
Compass 

Not much else they can add?  They could, but won't, add
Xenon Flash , require some chunky capacitors.
Keyboard.
Tegra chipset from nVidia. ,  making Sony/Nintendo sit up and take notice.
Removable battery

Keep the 3g at a lower price point.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 8, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Just bought some Sennheiser MM 50 in-ear headphones to replace my, quite frankly, appalling Apple in-ear ones that unscrewed themselves and then I lost the bit.
> 
> What a difference, wicked bass and tops, lovely design and best of all a built-in mic with button. They're like ear-plugs, cut out a lot of sound so I can turn the volume down. Recommended, though pricey at €69.



I paid £35 for my MM50's


----------



## elbows (Jun 8, 2009)

Im more excited by Snow Leopard than the new iphone but anyway its not long now before the keynotes speech where all will be releaved.

Im probably wrong but Snow Leopard could arrive as soon as a week on Friday.

The much rumoured apple netbook/tablet may not be mentioned or with us till 2010 though.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 8, 2009)

Store down as usual


----------



## Crispy (Jun 8, 2009)

I just have the horrible feeling that some of the fancy new features in snow leopard will require a _slightly_ more up-to-date mac than mine (eg. not quite the right gfx card for quicktime acceleration)


----------



## Crispy (Jun 8, 2009)

Shall we take WWDC talk to this thread: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=275415 - there will be plenty of non-iphone suff in the keynote after all.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2009)

Here's the pricing breakdown from o2. Pretty damn pricey...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 8, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Here's the pricing breakdown from o2. Pretty damn pricey...



They are cheeky rip-off fuckers. I hope the EC insists on breaking the monopoly.


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Here's the pricing breakdown from o2. Pretty damn pricey...


And some!

*£275* + £35/month on an *18* month contract for just 500 texts and 600 mins?!

You'd have to be off your noggin to sign up for their 24 month deal - £35/month + £175 for the same mins/text. Ouch. Total rip.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2009)

Yep very pricey. And here's how o2 will allow tethering, by treating it like an additional way to make money!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 9, 2009)

My interest in this phone has definitely waned now.

O2 are right fucking rip off merchants.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> My interest in this phone has definitely waned now.
> 
> O2 are right fucking rip off merchants.



Yeah me too...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2009)

How much is tehtering on other networks??


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 9, 2009)

On 3 you're not supposed to do it, but I used it as my main connection for about 6 months with no problems and no extra cost.


----------



## pesh (Jun 9, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep very pricey. And here's how o2 will allow tethering, by treating it like an additional way to make money!


wonder what that will mean for people who've already tethered their iphone by jailbreaking it...


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep very pricey. And here's how o2 will allow tethering, by treating it like an additional way to make money!


So that would be *£275* for the phone + *£65/month* for just 500 texts, 600 mins and 10GB/month tethered bandwidth. On an *18* month contract 

Fuck me. That's a lorra lorra wonga.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> So that would be *£275* for the phone + *£65/month* for just 500 texts, 600 mins and 10GB/month tethered bandwidth. On an *18* month contract
> 
> Fuck me. That's a lorra lorra wonga.



Yep. Although I wonder how many people will actually shell out for that...it's over priced this new iPhone. I wonder how well it will sell?


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep. Although I wonder how many people will actually shell out for that...it's over priced this new iPhone. I wonder how well it will sell?


I guess it'll be down to how much people want a compass, more memory, a faster phone and 'official' access to the video recording feature.

I'm not sure how much this speed difference will make. My G1 is as fast as fuck on web pages already.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 9, 2009)

Isn't that more down to the speed of your net connection?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> I guess it'll be down to how much people want a compass, more memory, a faster phone and 'official' access to the video recording feature.
> 
> I'm not sure how much this speed difference will make. My G1 is as fast as fuck on web pages already.



Hmmm yeah maybe. I do wonder if people will just look at this and the 3G and not see the justification in paying so much more for what isn't really that much more (for the average user) specs?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 9, 2009)

What is all this 'wow' over a compass anyway? I've had one on my watch for the best part of 10 years. Big deal. You could probably get for your keyring for 50p. And it won't drain your phone battery. 

As for TomTom. Would you _really _want the same thing that plays music and takes calls and texts to be handling your route directions all at the same time while you're driving? It would be a bit annoying if the phone rings or someone wants to play about on itunes and at the same time you want to listen out for directions. Sometimes cramming everything all on one device seems, well just a bit impractical. I'd rather keep it on a separate device, but that's just my preference.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> What is all this 'wow' over a compass anyway? I've had one on my watch for the best part of 10 years. Big deal. You could probably get for your keyring for 50p. And it won't drain your phone battery.


To be honest, I was rather excited by the compass on my G1 but soon realised that the cheap one I clip on to my keyring was faster and more convenient to use, and just as accurate.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> To be honest, I was rather excited by the compass on my G1 but soon realised that the cheap one I clip on to my keyring was faster and more convenient to use, and just as accurate.



Well exactly. I'm all for new developments but this is about as exciting as the Spirit Level app in practical terms.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 9, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> What is all this 'wow' over a compass anyway? I've had one on my watch for the best part of 10 years. Big deal. You could probably get for your keyring for 50p. And it won't drain your phone battery.
> 
> As for TomTom. Would you _really _want the same thing that plays music and takes calls and texts to be handling your route directions all at the same time while you're driving? It would be a bit annoying if the phone rings or someone wants to play about on itunes and at the same time you want to listen out for directions. Sometimes cramming everything all on one device seems, well just a bit impractical. I'd rather keep it on a separate device, but that's just my preference.



I don't think it's that it points North, more that you tie it into the GPS for new services.

I'm running Tom Tom now on my Touch HD, not really found the problems that you describe. One big advantage is that you can switch to OS mapping with the spoken directions using Memory Map. Keeps cabling down and you can have it mounted on your windscreen, so it a nice place to control music. If you switch to a different app, then you can still hear the directions.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2009)

The compass is entirely for navigational software because it will rotate the map to the direction you are pointing the phone, saves you having to remember left on the map is right in real life.  Turn by turn, when the gps signal is weak, can tell you are still going north east.

err that Star map thing that people got excited about.  

Unless someone can tell me another genuinely useful application for a compass and I am more than willing to be amazed, I think that's about it.  Its probably a very cheap addition to the phone.

Unless 02 offer for early upgrade its going to cost me around 460 quid to upgrade, 184 + 280 for the remaining months of my contract.  The speed and battery would be nice but the upgrade isn't so fantastic i desperately need it now.  I might, I might not.

As I said before in an earlier post, the best upgrade is free.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 9, 2009)

Will not be getting then....

Had decided on the iPhone after a lot of musing but have to take the 18 months regardless of what model I order. 
Do I get locked into a contract I can afford on a model that is already updated or overspend on the latest model? 
Or do I stick with what I have and get a cheaper rolling monthly tariff?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 9, 2009)

The best use I've seen of the compass on the G1 so far is the metal detector app, its stuff like that where people think laterally that it will be useful.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 9, 2009)

sim667 said:


> I paid £35 for my MM50's



 I know!

(I failed in my usual practice of buying _everything_ from Amazon.co.uk - after all the UK is the Lidle of Europe at the moment - and went to an Apple Store, never again  )


Well, I think I'll stick with my current iPhone until my contract runs out in another year. I don't want to be stuck with T-mobile Netherlands for a minute more and I'm not paying a new rip-off tariff for the privilege of a rather underwelming iPhone with a compass and a video camera. I'm a bloke, I can navigate a map.

The iPhone 3.0 software will be change enough, anyone know if the Voice Control will be available for older phones? 

I'll see what's going on in a year's time with the smartphone market.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2009)

Structaural said:


> The iPhone 3.0 software will be change enough, anyone know if the Voice Control will be available for older phones?


 
Nope. 

Comparison here: http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone?mco=MTE2NTQ


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The best use I've seen of the compass on the G1 so far is the metal detector app, its stuff like that where people think laterally that it will be useful.



The most utterly useless application I can think of, your living in the early 1980's. These are the sort of pointless application that we use to get excited with the ZX Spectrum.  

I've moved on.  Map application does it for me, I use it all the time.  The compass makes its a more user friendly application that couldn't be done in software.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 9, 2009)

Post 3000


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jun 9, 2009)

re: 3Gs pricing 

why oh why oh why is the fucking iPhone so much in this country?


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> I'm running Tom Tom now on my Touch HD, not really found the problems that you describe. One big advantage is that you can switch to OS mapping with the spoken directions using Memory Map.


Being able to run Ordnance Survey maps via GPS on a phone is more useful to me than compasses, a zillion GB's of storage and an App Store full of novelty items.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> an App Store full of novelty items.


 
yup, nothing of use in the App store. All just gimmicks.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 9, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Post 3000



What a fucking waste.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 9, 2009)

Structaural said:


> What a fucking waste.



It is what I do best


----------



## Structaural (Jun 9, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Nope.
> 
> Comparison here: http://store.apple.com/uk/browse/home/shop_iphone/family/iphone?mco=MTE2NTQ



Shame  I was quite impressed with that.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 9, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> I'm running Tom Tom now on my Touch HD, not really found the problems that you describe. ..



How are you doing that then? Oh it's a Touch HD.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 9, 2009)

I have to say that I _really want_ an iPhone, and was waiting to see the new announcement before making a final decision, but those prices are ludicrous - particularly the tethering. (£15 a month basically for nothing more than the normal 3G web access, and not on PAYG at all?)


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jun 9, 2009)

Huge price hike ahoy! (for not much extra functionality...)

Rather pleased now that I went with the old 3G model two months ago, 18 month contract at £20 a month (BBC discount.)

I was all excited last night when I first heard heard about 3.0 tethering. Wasn't expecting to have to pay extra for it 

Gf is keen on an iPhone now. My advice has been to hold off, with maybe the cost of the old 3G coming down in a few months with old stock to shift. Realistic?


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

Kanda said:


> yup, nothing of use in the App store. All just gimmicks.


I didn't actually say that, but the majority of  programs downloaded from the app store rarely get used more than once, which I'd say is the absolute definition of a novelty item (150+ fart apps - LOL!). I can send you the link to the research that backs that up, if you like.

That's not to say that there aren't some genuinely useful apps that get used every day though, but they are in the minority.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 9, 2009)

Tricky Skills said:


> Gf is keen on an iPhone now. My advice has been to hold off, with maybe the cost of the old 3G coming down in a few months with old stock to shift. Realistic?



I am gonna wait and see now. 
3G likely to get a fair bit cheaper 
3GS might move down in line with this too although I doubt much soon

My upgrade is already due but wifey has a bit of a wait now. I think that I will hold off until she is upgradeable and look at how to do the two together.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 9, 2009)

Sunray - I didn't mean that the metal detector is useful as such, more that its a good example of the technology available being used in a way that's not imediately obvious. I'm sure there's plenty of clever geeks out there that will find more ways of using it...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> I didn't actually say that, but the majority of programs downloaded from the app store rarely get used more than once, which I'd say is the absolute definition of a novelty item (150+ fart apps - LOL!). I can send you the link to the research that backs that up, if you like.
> 
> That's not to say that there aren't some genuinely useful apps that get used every day though, but they are in the minority.


 
No, you said it was 'Full' of novelty apps, am only joshing anyway.

There's loads of crap there, but you just click on the Tab for 'Productivity', Business, Finance or Utilities or any of the many other categories and you get by the shit to the good stuff.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

I'm gonna wait too, O2 might rethink its pricing if it doesn't sell well or they get negative publicity: http://twitition.com/owzm4


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm gonna wait too, O2 might rethink its pricing if it doesn't sell well or they get negative publicity: http://twitition.com/owzm4


Lol! Like a 'Twitition' is going to make the slightest bit of difference to O2 or Apple!


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2009)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Sunray - I didn't mean that the metal detector is useful as such, more that its a good example of the technology available being used in a way that's not imediately obvious. I'm sure there's plenty of clever geeks out there that will find more ways of using it...



Its a compass?  

Its not a new invention.  It was invented and used for navigation about a 1000 years ago.  Since then as far as I can fathom, that's been its sole purpose.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> I didn't actually say that, but the majority of  programs downloaded from the app store rarely get used more than once, which I'd say is the absolute definition of a novelty item (150+ fart apps - LOL!). I can send you the link to the research that backs that up, if you like.
> 
> That's not to say that there aren't some genuinely useful apps that get used every day though, but they are in the minority.



This was somewhat true but now very professional and worthwhile application are starting to appear because it takes some time to write decent software.

There is a lot of very high quality applications for the iPhone now in all the categories. Both free and paid and the paid ones are fairly cheap all told.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2009)

The only thing preventing you using your sim in a 3g dongle is that the sim drawer is a bit awkward to open.

Why are people moaning about the pricing the 16Gb 3Gs is 15 quid more than the 16Gb 3g, and is a quite a bit better product.  What's annoying is that the 3g 16Gb has been dropped rather than dropped in price.  That with the upgrade to v3.0 is still a great phone.

Its the cheaper here than the US, AT&T want 2 year contracts at about 40pm min.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Its a compass?





Sunray said:


> It was invented and used for navigation about a 1000 years ago.



I have leardned my new thing today


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> Lol! Like a 'Twitition' is going to make the slightest bit of difference to O2 or Apple!



Who said one thing was going to change it all?


----------



## sumimasen (Jun 9, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Here's the pricing breakdown from o2. Pretty damn pricey...



Pardon my French but that is an absolutely fucking shit deal.  I'm actually really surprised, even by Apple's standards!

I'll stick with my awesome G1 thanks, with possible upgrade to Pre.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 9, 2009)

sumimasen said:


> Pardon my French but that is an absolutely fucking shit deal.  I'm actually really surprised, even by Apple's standards!
> .



It does seem to be specially designed for stupid people, doesn't it.

I particularly like the way you can save yourself all of about £100 on the upfront price of the phone by committing yourself to two years' instead of one year's worth of outrageous tariff charges.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

A piece of annoyance at the O2 tethering/pricing: link



> What an absolute con! One of the few real benefits of the iPhone announcements last night was that Apple handset customers can now use their little touchscreen darlings to tether with their computers for mobile internet access. In network pricing news this morning, however, O2 has completely stiffed users by charging a premium bolt-on for this new feature that's already built into the phone anyway.
> 
> I'm absolutely fuming about this. I don't think I've ever seen such blatant profiteering in all my life. This is the best advert for jailbreaking your iPhone I've ever seen. Jailbreaking allows you to tether your phone via Bluetooth or USB such that you can use the 3G internet connection on your phone passed on to your laptop effectively giving you mobile broadband.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

More on another site, read the comments too, not very happy punters...now if only some of the bigger sites started bitching about this...


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> More on another site, read the comments too, not very happy punters...now if only some of the bigger sites started bitching about this...


People have bitched about other related Apple things on far bigger sites but I don't think it makes a tot of difference.

Apple will charge what they like as they have always done, and no doubt there'll be a line of people happy to pay such a massive premium for their products.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 9, 2009)

interesting, didn't think anyone could be worse than T-mobile Netherland. Mind you they haven't released their prices yet...


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

"We DEMAND our high end, luxury consumer items for less," doesn't really make up much of a chant either.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> People have bitched about other related Apple things on far bigger sites but I don't think it makes a tot of difference.
> 
> Apple will charge what they like as they have always done, and no doubt there'll be a line of people happy to pay such a massive premium for their products.



Well negative publicity seems to work on their wacko app approval system...


----------



## Structaural (Jun 9, 2009)

That lack of backgrounding is rubbish. 

For instance, I fancied listening to a bit of Alton Ellis as I didn't have any in my phone, so I use Simplify to stream from my home computer. Now I need to check an email and have to quit Simplify, read email in silence and reload which means it has to reinitialise the stream and reload all the playlists etc... bloody annoying and Mail.app is _running in the background anyway_.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> "We DEMAND our high end, luxury consumer items for less," doesn't really make up much of a chant either.



Hard one isn't it...


----------



## teuchter (Jun 9, 2009)

Apparently iphone users feel it's unreasonable for O2 not to agree to tear up their existing contracts to allow them to upgrade to the new iphone NOW instead of at the end of their contracts as per standard practice for every other phone network and contract ever.

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/shane_...rs_angry_with_o2_over_iphone_3gs_upgrade_cost


----------



## nick (Jun 9, 2009)

TBH Teuchter, it seems to be the kind of thing that would help Palm.
If the new Iphone had had a bit more to differentiate (OLED perhaps) I would seriously have considered upgrading my existing 3G and locking in for another 18 months. But...
A steep price, plus the statement that I would need to buy out of my existing contract means that I would be mad not to sit tight until Xmas. At that stage the Pre would be a known quantity, and may sway me from the cult of Jobs (though stiull tied into O2?)


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Apparently iphone users feel it's unreasonable for O2 not to agree to tear up their existing contracts to allow them to upgrade to the new iphone NOW instead of at the end of their contracts as per standard practice for every other phone network and contract ever.
> 
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/shane_...rs_angry_with_o2_over_iphone_3gs_upgrade_cost


I'll amend the chant:

"We, the loyal Apple fanboys, DEMAND our high end, luxury consumer items for less, with our current contracts ripped up immediately to facilitate a prompt and cut-price upgrade. NOW!"


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> I'll amend the chant:
> 
> "We, the loyal Apple fanboys, DEMAND our high end, luxury consumer items for less, with our current contracts ripped up immediately to facilitate a prompt and cut-price upgrade. NOW!"


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 9, 2009)

Structaural said:


> That lack of backgrounding is rubbish.
> 
> For instance, I fancied listening to a bit of Alton Ellis as I didn't have any in my phone, so I use Simplify to stream from my home computer. Now I need to check an email and have to quit Simplify, read email in silence and reload which means it has to reinitialise the stream and reload all the playlists etc... bloody annoying and Mail.app is _running in the background anyway_.



That's a bit shit. How will it cope when it finally get sat nav software and you want to listern to music at the same time? Or if you want to listern to music, whilst chatting on msn? 

I thought all phones in the last 5 years could multi task?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2009)

YOu can play music from the built-in music player of course. Apple's own apps are allowed to multitask, just not 3rd party ones.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 9, 2009)

*o2 fucks up the iPhone 3g s launch with insufferable costs.*

so then 17 june the new firmware 3.0 drops and 19 th of june the 3gs drops so what has this little bundle got instore for us then ...

sooo it's:

copy and paste
search
landscape for all text features
longer battery life (how exactly o2 as the batteries are the same...)
picture messaging (wait for the costs...)
internet thethering (Ditto)

http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/index.html

so then let's look at the cost of upgrading shall we...

previously o2 have done the decnet thing and admitted that tieing people into 18 month contracts that new tech would launch and they'd then upgrade people with the newer phone and a new 18 month contract. 

previuosly the 16 gig at £45 was £59 to buy. 
now the 16 gig or 32 gig are on the same contract ....

wait for it....

16 gig £184.98 and the 32 gig at £274.23

the internet tethering will cost you the same as o2 broadband rates (£2.64 per mb in the eu and .... £6 outside) as well as an additional £14.60 for 3 gig a month or £29.36 for 10 gig...

photo messaging is the cost of 4 text messages but their text message bundels haven't increased to compentsate.  still only 500 messages.

ok finally and the biggest insult of all is that previous and promised free upgrade...

nu-huh not a chance you have to buy out your contract entirely and take on a new one plus cover the cost of the phone so if you're 6 months in then it will cost on a middle tariff around £395.54 before even signing the contract for another £34 a month...(for 18 months)....

http://www.trustedreviews.com/mobil.../O2-Makes-a-Mess-of-iPhone-3G-S-UK-Pricing/p1

if you are pay as you go don't bother upgrading at all... you can have a holiday on the money they want....


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 9, 2009)

Crispy said:


> YOu can play music from the built-in music player of course. Apple's own apps are allowed to multitask, just not 3rd party ones.



Fair enough, still seems a bit pants, does it not have enough grunt to run them all?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 9, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Apparently iphone users feel it's unreasonable for O2 not to agree to tear up their existing contracts to allow them to upgrade to the new iphone NOW instead of at the end of their contracts as per standard practice for every other phone network and contract ever.
> 
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/shane_...rs_angry_with_o2_over_iphone_3gs_upgrade_cost





editor said:


> I'll amend the chant:
> 
> "We, the loyal Apple fanboys, DEMAND our high end, luxury consumer items for less, with our current contracts ripped up immediately to facilitate a prompt and cut-price upgrade. NOW!"


except of course this is preciely what o2 have previously done and siad they'd do with this new launch it was part of the reasons for buying  fucking 3g rather than waiting... 

still it pretty much guarentees that if they dont' change their policy they've lost my custom at the end of the contract... 

I'll go to vodaphone seeing as organge are so toliet...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 9, 2009)

So vodaphone let you upgrade mid contract with no extra fees from buying out of your existing contract.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 9, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> So vodaphone let you upgrade mid contract with no extra fees from buying out you existing contract.



i'd expect that they'd honour it if that was the sales pitch in the firstplace yes...

 you know misrepresenation of goods and services legislation etc... little things like the law might well cause o2 to rethink...

I'm sure i'm not the only one mis-sold an iphone by o2 on false information...


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2009)

I'm assuming that the PAYG option will become available in a bit.  The 3g was 350 quid.  No contract needed.   Just buy one of those.  I wonder if this time I can buy the phone in contract? Apple are saying that that is $399/$499 for in contracts.

I can just buy one of those when it comes out.  The 3GS is nice but not totally necessary.  As I keep saying the main upgrade is free if you already own a handset.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I'm assuming that the PAYG option will become available in a bit.  The 3g was 350 quid.  No contract needed.   Just buy one of those.  I wonder if this time I can buy the phone in contract? Apple are saying that that is $399/$499 for in contracts.
> 
> I can just buy one of those when it comes out.  The 3GS is nice but not totally necessary.  As I keep saying the main upgrade is free if you already own a handset.



erm have you read the link i posted the 3gs 32 gb is over 400 notes...

e2a 

payg 

16 gig £440.40 and  32gig £538.30


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2009)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> erm have you read the link i posted the 3gs 32 gb is over 400 notes...





Its Apple, how much did you expect to pay?  I don't need 32Gb so 440 is just a little tempting.......


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Its Apple, how much did you expect to pay?  I don't need 32Gb so 440 is just a little tempting.......



not much more than i already have as i was promised a free upgrade with a new 18 mnth contract...


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Fair enough, still seems a bit pants, does it not have enough grunt to run them all?



The rationale is that badly-behaved background apps could sap all your battery


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2009)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> not much more than i already have as i was promised a free upgrade with a new 18 mnth contract...



Do you have that in writing? That would be mobile phone deal of the century. A brand new iPhone for just the cost of the contract?  I certainly wasn't told that.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 9, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> I thought all phones in the last 5 years could multi task?



So did I.

Every day I am impressed with another thing that everything can do except the wonder-iphone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

This is annoying, need a new phone can't really wait for Pre but I have over 16 gigs of music on my iPod so the 32 is my only option. But i'll paying that much doesn't appeal nor being locked into a 2 year contract...


----------



## Crispy (Jun 9, 2009)

teuchter said:


> So did I.
> 
> Every day I am impressed with another thing that everything can do except the wonder-iphone.


Most smartphones do more things than the iphone, but none (except maybe the pre) are as pleasant to use. Your needs are not suited to it, so I wouldn't recommend it to you


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Do you have that in writing? That would be mobile phone deal of the century. A brand new iPhone for just the cost of the contract?  I certainly wasn't told that.



brand new opening store in tottenham promo deal ... cept they at least on the face of it seem to want to welch out on it now... we'll see... 

as i said i'm not fussed and will leave if they don't either way they'll not get more cash outta me than i've agreed too and wanting another 4 hundred notes for 2 replacement phones which were previously free isn't on as far as i'm concerned...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2009)

Ooh, I can get OS 3.0 tonight


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2009)

You paid the 59 quid to be a Apple developer didn't you?


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2009)

Yup, a while back. Forgot, not had time to fuck about with it


----------



## teuchter (Jun 9, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Your needs are not suited to it, so I wouldn't recommend it to you



This makes me feel special.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 9, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This is annoying, need a new phone can't really wait for Pre but I have over 16 gigs of music on my iPod so the 32 is my only option. But i'll paying that much doesn't appeal nor being locked into a 2 year contract...



You wouldn't be able to fit that on a Pre even if you could buy one.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2009)

I have 80Gb of music but find 16Gb plenty spacious enough.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I have 80Gb of music but find 16Gb plenty spacious enough.



Something to be said for being a bit selective, I thought I'd be upgrading from an 8gb card pronto, but its doing me fine for the time being.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 9, 2009)

I only have about six gig of music on my Touch and that's a 16 gig. As I've got older I've found that I want my whole collection on my iPod less and less; it's either on shuffle or I want to listen to something I've just downloaded.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

I've made do with about 4GB of music for ages. I'm not interested in carting around 10,000 songs from the year dot.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 9, 2009)

Nabbed from Cyborgmatt on HUKD

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rreRP8iVcodRhO2EHLd4AxQ&output=html


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 9, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Nabbed from Cyborgmatt on HUKD
> 
> http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=rreRP8iVcodRhO2EHLd4AxQ&output=html



Where on earth does that get the PAYG figures from?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> You wouldn't be able to fit that on a Pre even if you could buy one.



Yeah I know, but I wouldn't use the Pre for music...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

Wow people must be really pissed off in real number for the Guardian to cover it:



> Mobile network O2 has reacted to protests by customers who became angry after it emerged that the new iPhone 3GS could prove substantially more expensive than its predecessor.
> 
> 
> The new iPhone handset, unveiled by Apple yesterday in San Francisco, goes on sale next Friday and sports increased memory, new software and an improved, video-capable camera. But according to price plans from O2 - which has an exclusive deal to act as the iPhone operator in the UK - buyers could pay substantially more than they did for the previous model.
> ...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 9, 2009)

Well, no, really all the Guardian tech blog does is read Facebook and Twitter a bit and then blog about it a bit late.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 9, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Ooh, I can get OS 3.0 tonight



How's that then?  Ah, should read further...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, no, really all the Guardian tech blog does is read Facebook and Twitter a bit and then blog about it a bit late.



That wasn't a blog entry, it was a report. Trusted Reviews are less than impressed also:



> In short, *yes* these run in stark contrast to O2's generous iPhone 3G tariffs which appeared one year ago almost to the day. In fact, whereas a flagship 16GB iPhone 3G in 2008 would cost you just £59 on a £45pm 18 month contract now the replacement 32GB flashship iPhone 3G S clocks in at a jaw dropping £175.19 on the same tariff.
> 
> Perhaps worst of all are the deals for the 'affordable' 8GB iPhone 3G which supposedly received a 50 per cent price cut yesterday to attract new users into the smartphone sector. Well *SUPRISE!* O2 hasn't changed the tariff at all and will still charge roughtly £99 (£96.89) for the handset on both £29.38pm and £34.26pm 18 month deals - the exact same rate it launched at 12 months ago. Thanks O2.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

Trouble is, there'll be no shortage of deep pocketed fanboys lining up to buy this phone. But I'm not sure how people can complain anyway. It's a luxury item at a luxury price. If you can't afford it, buy something else.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 9, 2009)

I can afford it, not getting it. It's not that great an improvement really.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> Trouble is, there'll be no shortage of deep pocketed fanboys lining up to buy this phone. But I'm not sure how people can complain anyway. It's a luxury item at a luxury price. If you can't afford it, buy something else.



Market forces, consumers have every right to demand better prices.


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2009)

One part of the higher price is likely the pound dropping against the dollar. Apple resisted changing their uk retail prices for stuff when the currency dropped a lot, but have tended to build it into new prices when new products are launched or lines updates. Its not the only factor though. Some people also forget about VAT in the uk when doing conversions from dollar prices to see how much it 'should be'.

Having said all that I dont much like the price. And I really hate the price of the tethering. I will be sticking with current iphone for as long as possible, the desire to record video & faster performance will probably get me in the end.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2009)

editor said:


> Trouble is, there'll be no shortage of deep pocketed fanboys lining up to buy this phone. But I'm not sure how people can complain anyway. It's a luxury item at a luxury price. If you can't afford it, buy something else.



I'm wavering and 440 would mean I don't have to get another contract at the end of my existing contract.

I'm also assuming the PAYG deal is a standard iPhone and that I can just put the 3g SIM into a 3G dongle and my existing contract SIM into it.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2009)

elbows said:


> Having said all that I dont much like the price. And I really hate the price of the tethering. I will be sticking with current iphone for as long as possible, the desire to record video & faster performance will probably get me in the end.


You'd get better video performance off a cheap second hand camera and I'm not sure you're really going to notice the 'faster' performance in day to day use - least not enough to justify the thumping great price tag.


----------



## paolo (Jun 10, 2009)

Does anyone have any recommendations for an external power pack? Gonna be away from power at Glastonbury until the gates open.

(Mophie one looks a bit pricey for 1200mAh. There's a 5000mAh product in the US, for less money, but the supplier seems flakey.)


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 10, 2009)

editor said:


> I'm not sure you're really going to notice the 'faster' performance in day to day use - least not enough to justify the thumping great price tag.



I guess the main thing will be apps which take advantage of the extra power. At the moment it seems like a no brainer.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Does anyone have any recommendations for an external power pack? Gonna be away from power at Glastonbury until the gates open.
> 
> (Mophie one looks a bit pricey for 1200mAh. There's a 5000mAh product in the US, for less money, but the supplier seems flakey.)


The Proporta ones are pretty good: http://www.urban75.org/tech/proporta-mobile-survival-kit.html



Global_Stoner said:


> I guess the main thing will be apps which take advantage of the extra power. At the moment it seems like a no brainer.


I'm struggling to think of any app I'd have on a mobile that's going to need a ton of CPU power.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2009)

I have to admit that I am still totally  at people complaining about the price.  Not clear but $549 is what engadget are reporting they want for the Palm Pre with no contract.  Thats 400 quid (inc vat) at in this country.  Which is what I've come to expect for off contract smart phones.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 10, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I can afford it, not getting it. It's not that great an improvement really.



Same here. Nothing I remotely care about on the new one (definitely nothing the 3.0 software won't give the 3g anyway), and still got 3Gb of space on the 3g I have.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 10, 2009)

editor said:


> The Proporta ones are pretty good: http://www.urban75.org/tech/proporta-mobile-survival-kit.html
> 
> I'm struggling to think of any app I'd have on a mobile that's going to need a ton of CPU power.



slight caveat with Proporta - I've had now had two iPhone connectors fail on me now and you can't use the one that came with your iPhone. Annoying. What was that one you got Sunray?


----------



## Structaural (Jun 10, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I can afford it, not getting it. It's not that great an improvement really.



The iPhone 3.0 software will keep me happy for another year.

(btw Kanda, you wouldn't know the build number of your latest developer Snow Leopard?)


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 10, 2009)

editor said:


> I'm struggling to think of any app I'd have on a mobile that's going to need a ton of CPU power.



Games and better navigation software are all I can think of, but I'm sure there are developers who will put it to use.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 10, 2009)

oh you got iphone 3.0 not Leopard, ignore me. Half asleep when I read the thread earlier.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2009)

Structaural said:


> slight caveat with Proporta - I've had now had two iPhone connectors fail on me now and you can't use the one that came with your iPhone. Annoying. What was that one you got Sunray?



I got the APC Power pack

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=UPB10

I like it, its very light and charges the phone to perhaps 2/3rds twice.  

Bit more expensive as its lithium polymer but keeps its charge for a while.


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2009)

editor said:


> I'm struggling to think of any app I'd have on a mobile that's going to need a ton of CPU power.



Their own figures go on about things like being able to open excel files twice as quick, but for a lot of people it will be entertainment/game apps that harness the extra power. Some of the video stuff will probably benefit too (eg the basic built in editing)

Personally I am not really that bothered about the speed increase, or at least not bothered enough to want to pay through the nose for it.


----------



## ethel (Jun 10, 2009)

i'm trying to decide what to do. initially i fancied a 32gb iphone, but the price is a bit high! i'm going to have to pay about £120 to get out of my contract with 3, and don't fancy paying another £200 to o2. 16gb or 8gb? i could just buy a separate ipod. hmm.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2009)

Just wait till your contract ends with 3.


----------



## ethel (Jun 10, 2009)

end of november though and they cause me immense amounts of stress because of their rubbish customer service.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 10, 2009)

wait till november then. might even see the rpice come down for xmas if you're lucky.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 10, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I got the APC Power pack
> 
> http://www.apc.com/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=UPB10
> 
> ...



cheers, damn, discontinued, Amazon.co.uk suggests this:







thanks amazon


----------



## Badgers (Jun 10, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> end of november though and they cause me immense amounts of stress because of their rubbish customer service.



http://forums.cnet.co.uk/-mobiles-/get-out-of-your-3-contract-early-now/t10030009/


----------



## ethel (Jun 10, 2009)

you star!


----------



## ethel (Jun 10, 2009)

on phone to disconnections now...


----------



## ethel (Jun 10, 2009)

it worked! despite the guy being an arse about it. "i think this is only an excuse". thank you!

xx


----------



## paolo (Jun 10, 2009)

Thanks for the review link ed.

Am leaning towards the Proporta, on the basis that 3400mAh is the kind of capacity I'm after.

Structaural: Is the connector particularly flimsy, or do you think you've just been unlucky (sounds like the former if you've had two go).

Also, does it recharge the phone fully?


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2009)

The Oxfam tent has a 30 way plug block for phone charging.  Give me a shout if you need a charge.   If I'm about and its plugged in, I can't see why I cant charge it for you.  Be on site from Sat evening.


----------



## paolo (Jun 10, 2009)

Sunray said:


> The Oxfam tent has a 30 way plug block for phone charging.  Give me a shout if you need a charge.   If I'm about and its plugged in, I can't see why I cant charge it for you.  Be on site from Sat evening.



Cheers for that - hopefully won't need to trouble you with it. We arrive on Monday. Will have been camping for two days by then so juiced out, but if I get a pack I might be able to scrape through until Wednesday when our info tents open.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 10, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Thanks for the review link ed.
> 
> Am leaning towards the Proporta, on the basis that 3400mAh is the kind of capacity I'm after.
> 
> ...



Yep, second one from the company. It's particularly flimsey, shame because the unit is very light.

I've ordered this instead (Kensington Power Pack):
amazon.co.uk


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2009)

Looks like yo're going to have to wait a long time for Flash to appear on your iPhone thanks to Apples intransigence.





> Adobe is altering its software so that Flash-based games and videos will be able to operate on different handsets without being modified, the Wall Street Journal reports.
> 
> "Smart phones are where the game is now," stated CTO Kevin Lynch. "Our chips are on the table. We've made our bets."
> 
> ...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2009)

Maybe Apple have something up their sleeve..


----------



## Crispy (Jun 10, 2009)

If support for HTML5 video takes off, the lack of flash on iphone will become a much smaller problem.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Maybe Apple have something up their sleeve..



Or it being on every other device might make them change their mind?


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2009)

Apple are more than capable of writing their own flash plug in for the phone, its a fairly open standard.

e2a : There is a open source version out there Gnash.

http://www.gnu.org/software/gnash/

If these people can manage it a 25 Billion dollar company can manage it.


----------



## jæd (Jun 15, 2009)

This is fun : Tethering for the 3g iPhone, No Jail Breaking Required : http://www.9to5mac.com/9to5mac-tether-iPhone-hack

Works a treat...


----------



## sim667 (Jun 15, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Apple are more than capable of writing their own flash plug in for the phone, its a fairly open standard.
> 
> e2a : There is a open source version out there Gnash.
> 
> ...



Clicky


----------



## jæd (Jun 15, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Clicky



"Wednesday, October 01, 2008  4:18 AM"  

Flash grinds my workstation to a halt. I think its unlikely the iPhone will ever get it.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 15, 2009)

jæd said:


> "Wednesday, October 01, 2008  4:18 AM"
> 
> Flash grinds my workstation to a halt. I think its unlikely the iPhone will ever get it.



Sorry didnt check the date....

have heard bout it more recently tho...


----------



## Sunray (Jun 15, 2009)

jæd said:


> "Wednesday, October 01, 2008  4:18 AM"
> 
> Flash grinds my workstation to a halt. I think its unlikely the iPhone will ever get it.



Steve Jobs didn't like Flash lite but full flash is clearly too much for mobile phone technology.  HTML5 video and audio tags and streaming facilities remove some of the pressure for flash but expect to see something from Apple that does render flash.  Its dynamic on the page as well, so unlike a static page render it will eat a lot more power while its being viewed.

There is also the touch screen gesture translation to flash input in a way that makes sense to the user.

I have to say its not something I really care to see, most flash are ads anyway.


----------



## jæd (Jun 15, 2009)

DataViz (them that did the Word Processor Documents To Go on Palm Os 5) have announced the first version of Documents To Go for IPhone. 

http://www.pcworld.com/article/166679/dataviz_offers_documents_to_go_for_iphone.html

Its a pricey application. All of $5 or $10 (for the Exchange version)... Excel support will be a free upgrade...


----------



## editor (Jun 15, 2009)

As predicted, there's been no shortage of deep pocketed Apple fans lining up to buy the 3GS, so you can rest assured that Apple will be laughing in the face of any Twititions, Facebook groups or online campaigns demanding they reduce the cost of their luxury gadget NOW!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 15, 2009)

It's not a question of Apple's pricing, anyway, it's the networks. Who don't have a terribly good record on that score with any phone, it's just that normally, nobody cares all that much.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 15, 2009)

editor said:


> As predicted, there's been no shortage of deep pocketed Apple fans lining up to buy the 3GS, so you can rest assured that Apple will be laughing in the face of any Twititions, Facebook groups or online campaigns demanding they reduce the cost of their luxury gadget NOW!


----------



## editor (Jun 15, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's not a question of Apple's pricing, anyway, it's the networks. .


That's not how 02 sees things:



> O2 blames Apple for UK iPhone 3G S prices
> 
> Apple's pricing strategy is behind the 87 percent increase in the cost of a mid-range iPhone in the UK, according to O2.
> 
> ...


Oh, and Pie1: grow up, soft lad.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 16, 2009)

editor said:


> That's not how 02 sees things:
> 
> Oh, and Pie1: grow up,



Ah, ok. Sorry...
...Do you mean like not repeating the same thing over & over again, that was only very mildly amusing in the 1st place?


----------



## jæd (Jun 16, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


>



I was wondering where that was. My problem is I've transferred everything to MP3...


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 16, 2009)

Thing is - and I _know_ I will be corrected if wrong  - but isn't the Palm thingy going to be pretty much the same price?


----------



## Sunray (Jun 16, 2009)

I would be very surprised if its not.  Its $550 off contract and $199 with a $100 rebate on contract. So expect very very similar prices to the iPhone over her.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 16, 2009)

editor said:


> That's not how 02 sees things:



They _would_ say that.


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> Thing is - and I _know_ I will be corrected if wrong  - but isn't the Palm thingy going to be pretty much the same price?


Nobody knows yet, but there aren't many phones I can think of being sold at such a huge premium as the iPhone 3GS in the UK. 

I haven't a problem with that - it's a high end luxury phone, after all - but it's the bleating and whining from the fanboys demanding that network providers  _immediately_ terminate their current iPhone contracts that I find so amusing. 

High end phones cost a lot of money, and often rely on contract subsidies by the networks to spread the cost to punters, so the notion that pleading 'Twititions' and other daft online petitions are going to make the slightest difference to Apple's upmarket pricing is laughable.



> Whiners of the World: Shut Up About the iPhone 3GS' Upgrade Price
> http://gizmodo.com/5284318/whiners-of-the-world-shut-up-about-the-iphone-3gs-upgrade-price


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 16, 2009)

Has an internet petition actually ever affected anything?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 16, 2009)

Apparently, the power of the internet petition bought back the Wispa bar. Apparently.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 16, 2009)

Cool.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 16, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apparently, the power of the internet petition bought back the Wispa bar. Apparently.


That was such a stunt. There were two guys wandering around with an immaculately made 'bring back the wispa' banner at glastonbury 2 years ago and they 'somehow' managed to get on stage when the cameras were filming. Blatant advertising 'vrial' bulshit.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 16, 2009)

Oh, ok. Not cool.


----------



## ethel (Jun 16, 2009)

an internet petition got m+s to stop charging extra for bigger sized bras.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 16, 2009)

Crispy said:


> That was such a stunt. There were two guys wandering around with an immaculately made 'bring back the wispa' banner at glastonbury 2 years ago and they 'somehow' managed to get on stage when the cameras were filming. Blatant advertising 'vrial' bulshit.



Well, quite. Glastonbury must be a marketeers dream when you think about the captive audience and cross-media attention it gets. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Vernon Kaye is already booked to host a T Mobile sponsored flash mob sing-along from the Pyramid Stage.


----------



## paolo (Jun 16, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> Well, quite. Glastonbury must be a marketeers dream when you think about the captive audience and cross-media attention it gets. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if Vernon Kaye is already booked to host a T Mobile sponsored flash mob sing-along from the Pyramid Stage.



The stunt Crispy was referring to will not have happened with the festival's blessing. In fact they get very annoyed when companies try stuff like that. Budweiser tried it on a few years ago and Michael had their signs removed and happily told the press about their transgression, as I recall.

Not surprisingly, Budweiser don't sell a drop at the festival anymore.


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2009)

Crispy said:


> That was such a stunt. There were two guys wandering around with an immaculately made 'bring back the wispa' banner at glastonbury 2 years ago and they 'somehow' managed to get on stage when the cameras were filming. Blatant advertising 'vrial' bulshit.


 Yep. The whole campaign was manufactured by one of the UK's leading PR companies. Here's the owner, Mark Borkowski being all puffed up about the marketing award he won for the Wispa campaign:


> I was blown away, however, when we were given the Digital Innovation award for our Wispa campaign. Danny Rogers, the editor of PR Week, noted that the Cadbury’s Wispa campaign stood out because it expertly harnessed social media to great sales effect.
> 
> I had to scoot off early, content that we had achieved something significant. To my amazement, twenty minutes later I received a call from Suresh saying we’d been awarded the Gold Award for Campaign of the Year for our Bring Back Wispa campaign. I was gob-smacked and delighted.
> 
> http://www.markborkowski.com/?p=7698


As Johnny Rotten put it, "ever get the feeling you're being cheated?"


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> an internet petition got m+s to stop charging extra for bigger sized bras.


Well, that and the Daily Mail and The Sun getting involved.

Social networking sites are good for creating stories for journos to pick up on, but Facebook groups rarely change a thing on their own. If the Sun and Mail hadn't got involved, I doubt if M&S would have changed anything. In fact, that's exactly what their CEO said:



> Today both The Sun and the Daily Mail are claiming credit for the u-turn. The Daily Mail also credited the online campaign Busts 4 Justice, whose Facebook group has attracted 8,000 members.
> 
> M&S chief executive Sir Stuart Rose was clear that The Sun had helped swing it.
> 
> ...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 16, 2009)

That's pretty much what I'd thought would be the case, tbh.


----------



## ethel (Jun 16, 2009)

ah, but i think that busts4justice took the idea to the sun.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 16, 2009)

editor said:


> Y
> As Johnny Rotten put it, "ever get the feeling you're being cheated?"



Aint he the guy from those butter adverts?


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> ah, but i think that busts4justice took the idea to the sun.


But that's the point. Facebook groups on their own are almost always utterly useless, but if there's a good story there then there's a chance they might get picked up by the mainstream press. 

The notion of a Facebook group - or an even dafter Twitition - getting Apple to change their pricing policies and networks to suddenly renegotiate their customer contracts on a luxury item is laughable.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 16, 2009)

Just as mad is the thought that Apple produce cheap gear.  When has that ever happened?  Look how much they charge for DDR memory for their desktops.

I have to sheepishly admit that I am tempted to get one on Friday.  That would nearly make me a fan boy.....


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I have to sheepishly admit that I am tempted to get one on Friday.  That would nearly make me a fan boy.....


If you've got that much disposable income to spend on an incremental upgrade, go for it. It is ridiculously expensive though, especially if you want to use it for tethering.


----------



## ethel (Jun 16, 2009)

i'm getting one on friday. i am a fanboy


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> i'm getting one on friday. i am a fanboy


How much are you paying and how long is the contract?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 16, 2009)

I'm pretty much an Apple fanboy, and I'm *not* getting one.

Nor will I be paying for tethering. Net on the phone works well enough for what I'm ever likely to need it for, odd bits of directions, email, etc.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 16, 2009)

So if you don't own an iPhone and get one this Friday you're a fanboi?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 16, 2009)

Dunno. I've already got a 3G, though.


----------



## ethel (Jun 16, 2009)

editor said:


> How much are you paying and how long is the contract?




£175 and 18 months. i wanted something to replace my nano anyway and thanks to urban i managed to escape my rubbish 3 contract.


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> £175 and 18 months. i wanted something to replace my nano anyway and thanks to urban i managed to escape my rubbish 3 contract.


And the all-important monthly charge?


----------



## ethel (Jun 16, 2009)

editor said:


> And the all-important monthly charge?



£44 my bill is at least £40 a month at the minute anyway. it was more like £70-£80 for a few months.


three phoned me up today offering me mix and match 1100 for £11 a month. not interested.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 16, 2009)

O2 Tariffs are here:

http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/paymonth.html


----------



## Sunray (Jun 16, 2009)

editor said:


> If you've got that much disposable income to spend on an incremental upgrade, go for it. It is ridiculously expensive though, especially if you want to use it for tethering.



Ahh, see you forget that the PAYG sim I get with the phone comes with 12 months 3G unlimited data and wifi, so I can just get a 3g dongle.

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=289162

Get a few quid for the 3g I have if I wanted to sell it.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 16, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> Dunno. I've already got a 3G, though.



CPW are doing £180 cashback for 3g to 3gs upgraders....... although currently ive seen 3g going on ebay and avforums for bout £300.....

Im waiting to see what the price of the 3g handset does after the 3gs is easily available


----------



## sim667 (Jun 16, 2009)

Ive just read on another forum that 3.0 is available on apple servers already, but they wont paste the link cus its illegal...... they just said 'think swedish'......

If i wasnt at work, id be hunting high and low


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Ahh, see you forget that the PAYG sim I get with the phone comes with 12 months 3G unlimited data and wifi, so I can just get a 3g dongle..


I'm a bit confused here, sorry. You're going to get the PAYG 3GS iPhone (which comes in at the eye wateringly massive cost of 16GB for £440.40 or 32GB for £538.30), _and_ you're still under contract for your current iPhone and paying for that too?

And won't O2 object if you're using your old SIM for a dongle without paying their huge rates? Or am I discombobulated to the max here?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 16, 2009)

.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 16, 2009)

editor said:


> I'm a bit confused here, sorry. You're going to get the PAYG 3GS iPhone (which comes in at the eye wateringly massive cost of 16GB for £440.40 or 32GB for £538.30), _and_ you're still under contract for your current iPhone and paying for that too?
> 
> And won't O2 object if you're using your SIM for a dongle without paying their huge rates?



440 quid. Its essentially the out of contract cost, but the PAYG sim comes with it and you can use that in a dongle, so far it appears O2 haven't done anything. Its a selling point, so as long as you don't hammer it I can't see it being a problem?  They might try to stop people on all but email and web?  Dunno what will happen, but its clearly spelt out on the promotional literature and at 440 quid I can justifiably feel like I've paid them for it.




			
				http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/paygo.html said:
			
		

> When you buy a new iPhone from us, we'll give you 12 months of unlimited web and Wi-Fi.



Its that or wait till my contract runs out at the end of the year and by then I'd have an eye on the next iteration.

e2a: Alternative is to pay off the contract and sign a new one which will get cheaper over the months I hold off.  429 I think, can't remember when I got my last one. Might have been August.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 16, 2009)

got v3 all up and running....... some nice features already.. but think the OS will get better as 3rd party developers experimenting.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 16, 2009)

Am I missing something or could you not just buy a PAYG one, then swap the SIMs?



I would like a new iPhone by the way but I'm not desperate. I have a while to go on my Vodafone contract, and I think I might wait for that to expire first, then get a PAYG iPhone.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 16, 2009)

Yes, that's what they tell you to do on the O2 website if your an existing customer.

Option 2
http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/paymonth.html

Clearly its locked to O2 so you'd have to wait till they hacked the v3 software.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> Dunno. I've already got a 3G, though.



So you'd be one then if you got a 3GS, not, you know, someone who just wants a new phone and can afford to buy it...the snobbery on here is amusing at times.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So you'd be one then if you got a 3GS, not, you know, someone who just wants a new phone and can afford to buy it...the snobbery on here is amusing at times.


Be sure to elaborate on the details of this supposed "snobbery" here. Thanks.


----------



## shave (Jun 17, 2009)

Not on the UK iTunes for me yet...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Be sure to elaborate on the details of this supposed "snobbery" here. Thanks.



Lol! Do your research it's there too see!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So you'd be one then if you got a 3GS, not, you know, someone who just wants a new phone and can afford to buy it...the snobbery on here is amusing at times.



I think it's the two Macs, Airport Extreme, 3G iPhone, iPods and Apple stickers everywhere that do it, to be honest. 

I wasn't actually calling anyone except _me_ anything, the point was that I'm an Apple fan and I'm not getting one... so not sure where the snobbery comment comes from...


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol! Do your research it's there too see!


Sorry, I'm not seeing any amusing "snobbery" here, so could you be so kind as to explain what you're on about? Thanks.


stupid dogbot said:


> I wasn't actually calling anyone except _me_ anything, the point was that I'm an Apple fan and I'm not getting one... so not sure where the snobbery comment comes from...


Indeed. It seems a rather strange and unnecessary comment to make.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 17, 2009)

I understand and agree with everyone here


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 17, 2009)

So, where's this bloody 3.0 update then...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 17, 2009)

Bear in mind that the West Coast hasn't woken up yet.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 17, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Bear in mind that the West Coast hasn't woken up yet.



Should've gone live at midnight WCT then. 
Slackers!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

Delayed til tomorrow, says the Reg...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/17/iphone_3/


----------



## Sunray (Jun 17, 2009)

Arse, I was looking forward to sending an MMS.


----------



## jæd (Jun 17, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> Delayed til tomorrow, says the Reg...
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/06/17/iphone_3/



Apparently its going to be 6pm BST...

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2041758&tstart=0

(I wouldn't trust the Reg to get the date right...)


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

Maybe. But at least there's nothing like this on their page:



> im am soooo worried that it wont come out to day i really hope now that it does im sooooooo excited


----------



## jæd (Jun 17, 2009)

Silly fanboy. The 3.0 GM firmware is on torrents, etc.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 17, 2009)

jæd said:


> Apparently its going to be 6pm BST...
> 
> http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2041758&tstart=0
> 
> (I wouldn't trust the Reg to get the date right...)



the servers will crash cus of demand tho...... so many probably wont get it til tomorrow.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 17, 2009)

jæd said:


> Silly fanboy. The 3.0 GM firmware is on torrents, etc.


Want to bet that the official release will be slightly different? Best to wait for it unless you have a jailbroken phone


----------



## Structaural (Jun 17, 2009)

I'll wait a couple of days - see how it goes for everyone else.


----------



## jæd (Jun 17, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Want to bet that the official release will be slightly different? Best to wait for it unless you have a jailbroken phone



Its supposed to be GM so its not expected to be different...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Want to bet that the official release will be slightly different? Best to wait for it unless you have a jailbroken phone



Even so, surely that's no excuse for making the internet equivalent of excited squealing noises...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2009)

Looks like Apple is getting arsey with Palm:



> Apple have released an advisory warning that they do not plan to support third-party devices that claim to synchronize with iTunes, and moreover that future versions of the software may break that functionality.  The announcement is being seen as a response to Palm’s iTunes compatibility, where the Pre presents itself as an iPod and can be synchronized with non-DRM music and media organized by iTunes.



I don't know why they do it to be honest, all they're doing is giving Palm a great PR opportunity to play the victim...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2009)

TweetDeck for the iPhone. I love the desktop version, been wondering how'd they squeeze it onto the small screen...



> TweetDeck was released tonight so I thought I’d give it a try. First of all, it’s free. That’s nice. Second, I have to admit, I’m a Tweetie fanboy. I prefer it over TweetDeck on the desktop so beware. Really, the thing I think is the problem is it has too many features. I know, seems impossible. There are some great features though. Like nice little pop ups when you get new tweets. It’s kinda set up like safari with multiple pages that can be zoomed in and out and flicked through. I really like the pop up bubble in the bottom left with recent tweet counts. I’m going to try and use it tomorrow along with the crazy day of the iPhone firmware 3.0 release!


----------



## jæd (Jun 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't know why they do it to be honest, all they're doing is giving Palm a great PR opportunity to play the victim...



Because at some point Apple will change bits of iTunes. If Palm wanted its Pre to have guaranteed access they could have written a plugin for iTunes.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like Apple is getting arsey with Palm:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why they do it to be honest, all they're doing is giving Palm a great PR opportunity to play the victim...



As long as Palm keep a handle on it they can keep up with Apple. Remember that there are a lot of ex Apple working at Palm, the details might just be a call away before it iTunes even gets released.


----------



## sumimasen (Jun 17, 2009)

Friend wants to know if his jailbroken iPhone can still get v3.  I said how would I know I don't have an iPhone


----------



## 43mhz (Jun 17, 2009)

sumimasen said:


> Friend wants to know if his jailbroken iPhone can still get v3.  I said how would I know I don't have an iPhone



In time yes.. the v3 software will probably be cracked a few days after release


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 17, 2009)

Pro tip - if you want to get one from a shop on Friday, go to http://www.apple.com/uk/retail/personalshopping/ to make a reservation ASAP.

I decided to get one (I'm going to end up getting one eventually, let's face it, so why bother waiting, it's not like they're going to make a new model soon) and saw that that was the option mentioned on the site. I then called the actual Apple Store to check they'd actually be reserving me one, and they said (a) yes and (b) they'd only got the email an hour or two ago that that was the advised course, and they'd already got 30-odd reservations.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> TweetDeck for the iPhone. I love the desktop version, been wondering how'd they squeeze it onto the small screen...



Just installed it. Completed settings, pressed "Sign In", it crashed! 

Still, I'm getting proper irritated with the free TwitterFon, so I'm gonna persevere...


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2009)

jæd said:


> Because at some point Apple will change bits of iTunes. If Palm wanted its Pre to have guaranteed access they could have written a plugin for iTunes.


From what I've read of it, Apple would have to _go out of their way_ to intentionally change the code to stop the Pre working. Which seems awfully petty and bloody minded to me.

Re: Tweetdeck. I really don't like it on the desktop. In fact the best Twitter client I've seen is the iTweet app on Android which is ruddy excellent.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 17, 2009)

editor said:


> From what I've read of it, Apple would have to _go out of their way_ to intentionally change the code to stop the Pre working. Which seems awfully petty and bloody minded to me.
> 
> Re: Tweetdeck. I really don't like it on the desktop. In fact the best Twitter client I've seen is the iTweet app on Android which is ruddy excellent.


Sounds typically apple to me


----------



## Kanda (Jun 17, 2009)

They change it monthly pretty much, they're hardly gonna give a fuck about Palm and cater for them.

That's how it reads to me.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 17, 2009)

The Pre sync is it seems basically a hack - http://daringfireball.net/2009/06/webos_itunes_integration


----------



## Sunray (Jun 17, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Pro tip - if you want to get one from a shop on Friday, go to http://www.apple.com/uk/retail/personalshopping/ to make a reservation ASAP.
> 
> I decided to get one (I'm going to end up getting one eventually, let's face it, so why bother waiting, it's not like they're going to make a new model soon) and saw that that was the option mentioned on the site. I then called the actual Apple Store to check they'd actually be reserving me one, and they said (a) yes and (b) they'd only got the email an hour or two ago that that was the advised course, and they'd already got 30-odd reservations.



Technology moves on so rapidly that there is no point in waiting, buy it now and be happy with it.  The next one might not be the advance you were waiting for so you can skip generations.


----------



## jæd (Jun 17, 2009)

editor said:


> From what I've read of it, Apple would have to _go out of their way_ to intentionally change the code to stop the Pre working. Which seems awfully petty and bloody minded to me.



I think it would be unlikely that Apple would deliberately cripple the Pre's ability to sync. However I would think its unlikely they've added "Palm Pre compatibility" to their test-suite...

Of course, one can always read ones own interpretation into another's motives...


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2009)

Kanda said:


> They change it monthly pretty much, they're hardly gonna give a fuck about Palm and cater for them.
> 
> That's how it reads to me.


Apple really are the new Microsoft. 


> However, Palm are of the opinion that locking the Pre out of iTunes would only damage Apple’s reputation.  Their argument is the same as was suggested when the iTunes announcement was first made: that Apple will appear petty if they move to limit access to the software.
> 
> _   “Palm’s media sync works with the current version of iTunes. If Apple chooses to disable media sync in a future version of iTunes, it will be a direct blow to their users who will be deprived of a seamless synchronization experience. However, people will have options. They can stay with the iTunes version that works to sync their music on their Pre, they can transfer the music via USB, and there are other third-party applications we could consider.” Lynn Fox, spokesperson, Palm_
> 
> ...





> Releasing a tiny update to iTunes would banish the Pre's iTunes sync, destroying one of the more appealing features of the new smartphone. It appears imminent that Apple will release this update. After all, why would Apple cater to a competitor?
> 
> Though it makes sense, it's a little sad. iTunes is clearly the king of the heap when it comes to online music distribution. Apple should rest on its laurels, knowing it has vanquished most of its musical competition and allow third-party smartphones to get in on the party. The sync could be eliminated, and Apple could then charge Palm for the capability as a kind of passive-aggressive gift. Other companies would surely pay for the feature, as everybody wants to steal a slice of the iPhone's tremendous success as a phone and MP3 player.
> 
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/166815/apple_will_banish_palm_pres_itunes_sync.html


----------



## Kanda (Jun 17, 2009)

I'd announce it beforehand too to be honest, cos if they didn't, they'd be accused of a conspiracy when it stopped working on the Pre.

Can't win really.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 17, 2009)

Apple could quite happily update itunes to deny the Pre, and roll out ipod updates at the same time to allow them to continue working. They've done it before when the itunes store DRM was hacked.


----------



## jæd (Jun 17, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I'd announce it beforehand too to be honest, cos if they didn't, they'd be accused of a conspiracy when it stopped working on the Pre.
> 
> Can't win really.



If Apple _really_ wanted to stop Palm they just make the sync glitch randomly when syncing to a Pre. Makes Palm look like they've got balky devices and get users to return them... 

Anyhow, if Apple do lock out Pre's they've lost 50,000 (?) potential iTunes customers. Might be better to let them stay.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 17, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> Just installed it. Completed settings, pressed "Sign In", it crashed!
> 
> Still, I'm getting proper irritated with the free TwitterFon, so I'm gonna persevere...



Same here.  Several times.  Not bothering tapping those details in AGAIN until I've installed 3.0 software.  Tweetdeck is in Beta, so I'm assuming they'll have built it with 3.0 in mind.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

I've been using it a bit this afternoon, and my 2nd impression is that it pisses on TwitterFon.


----------



## shave (Jun 17, 2009)

*Apple OS3 for iPhone*

Anyone got it yet?  
Does what it says on the box?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

It's on iTunes now...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

Downloading right now...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> I've been using it a bit this afternoon, and my 2nd impression is that it pisses on TwitterFon.



Have you ever used Twitterrific?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 17, 2009)

Gonna leave it a while until everyone else has reported back that it works fine


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

It works fine. What was it supposed to do again? 



Kid_Eternity said:


> Have you ever used Twitterrific?



Nope.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

Although... my housemate's is now in...

Japanese.

No, really.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 17, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Gonna leave it a while until everyone else has reported back that it works fine



That was to V3.0 btw, not twitterrific. I'm more than happy with tweetie, no reason to change.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

Safari's quicker, and seems less crashy.

Screen rotate seems much faster and smoother.

Landscape keyboard in mail/sms is nice.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 17, 2009)

Are all apps OS3-ready?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2009)

That, I can't answer. I've not found anything not working yet, but I've not investigated _everything_.

Facebook, TweetDeck, LastFM... those work.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Pro tip - if you want to get one from a shop on Friday, go to http://www.apple.com/uk/retail/personalshopping/ to make a reservation ASAP.
> 
> I decided to get one (I'm going to end up getting one eventually, let's face it, so why bother waiting, it's not like they're going to make a new model soon) and saw that that was the option mentioned on the site. I then called the actual Apple Store to check they'd actually be reserving me one, and they said (a) yes and (b) they'd only got the email an hour or two ago that that was the advised course, and they'd already got 30-odd reservations.



How does this work in terms of buying the phone at the Apple store if it's different prices depending which tarriff you choose?


----------



## Structaural (Jun 17, 2009)

installing now...


----------



## metalguru (Jun 17, 2009)

Structaural said:


> installing now...



Yeah...I thought I was too until I got an "unknown iTunes problem" and my phone's stuck in emergency calls only mode. It's probably the sheer number of people trying to update.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 17, 2009)

I think the store is overloaded a bit - took me a while and had to unlock my SIM again.

Anyway sorted. _Now_ it's a proper smartphone. Spotlight and landscape email with cut and paste has cheered me right up... and Safari is snappier.


----------



## LadyLDN (Jun 17, 2009)

metalguru said:


> Yeah...I thought I was too until I got an "unknown iTunes problem" and my phone's stuck in emergency calls only mode. It's probably the sheer number of people trying to update.



Same here with mine... whoops.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 17, 2009)

"Unable to contact iPhone activation server"...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 17, 2009)

dogmatique said:


> "Unable to contact iPhone activation server"...



ditto ... not fuckign suprised tho what with everyone trying all at once i'll do it tonight at around 3 it'll be fine then, though whyt he hell are the bothering with the fuckign authentication who else is going to install on this on other devices it's hardware specific to quite a significant level seems like a totally unnescessary step...


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 17, 2009)

Got it to work about half an hour ago.

Whoop de doo!  Copy n Paste eh?  Revolutionary!


----------



## Dask (Jun 18, 2009)

Just installed OS 3.0 and Safari is running much faster it's really noticeable. Been looking to try out some HTML 5 video demos. If the BBC migrates over to HTML 5 video then I can't really see the need for a flash plugin.  Is anyone actually bothered about not being able to view whole Flash websites on their phone? From what I gather the <video></video> tag is going to be the future of streaming web video.

The landscape mode rotation is alot smoother and generally everything seems to be running faster.

The copy and paste implementation is clever, better late than never hey?  

Spotlight search is super quick, MMS and SMS forwarding works well.

It's basically put the iPhone OS where it should of been 2 years ago.

I've yet to use the Palm Web OS, but mini OS X seems to be leaps and bounds ahead of Android (at this stage) and Windows Mobile.

Bring on OS 4


----------



## metalguru (Jun 18, 2009)

I don't like the long-awaited copy and paste solution. There must be a better way (unless it just takes a bit of practice to get right consistently)


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

BBc already uses MP4 for the iplayer on iphone

I thnk CnP is good for b locks of text but a bit fiddly for single words. Being able to open links in a new tab is a godsend


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 18, 2009)

Dask said:


> everything seems to be running faster.



Yep. on Google Maps it's very noticable.

C&P is nifty. Spotlight & the landscape KB are great,

Shake to shuffle on the ipod's a nice little touch

Bluetooth ability is still fucking shit.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 18, 2009)

'Whoop de doo! Copy n Paste eh? Revolutionary!'

heh


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

not revolutionary, just useful


----------



## Sunray (Jun 18, 2009)

Apple have finally finished the Mobile OSX base solution.  The rest from now on is either small enhancements or major extras.

People keep going on about Cut and Paste being in the original iPhone and other manufacturers had it in for ages etc, but people forget that Apple had a blank slate and Nokia etc were in the business for decades.  Software takes ages to write to the standard you expect on a Mobile phone, crashes must be a rare occurrence.  Nokia and Sony have been struggling in this in recent years as the feature list has risen so has their bug list.

Its taken Apple 3-4 years, which is about right for what they have got out.  I think they did an incredible job.  They had to make some tough decisions (and they were pilloried on Cut and Paste) on what was going into each release, walking a fine line, not enough or the wrong ones and it will get panned and and nobody will buy it.  They managed to include enough features into the phone to get people to buy it even though its had some glaring flaws.

There are no glaring flaws left with this phone and amazingly its definitely snappier.  So I'm less inclined to get the 3GS.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How does this work in terms of buying the phone at the Apple store if it's different prices depending which tarriff you choose?



They're basically reselling O2 contracts when you buy from the Apple Store, you can't buy an iPhone without one. It's the same as getting it from any shop except that they probably know more about the hardware.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Steve Jobs 2007. Lol. 





> Imagine a world where every online store sells DRM-free music encoded in open licensable formats. In such a world, any player can play music purchased from any store, and any store can sell music which is playable on all players. This is clearly the best alternative for consumers, and Apple would embrace it in a heartbeat. If the big four music companies would license Apple their music without the requirement that it be protected with a DRM, we would switch to selling only DRM-free music on our iTunes store. Every iPod ever made will play this DRM-free music.
> http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/


You know, I wonder if Palm aren't cunningly pushing Apple into getting slapped down by the EU for anti trust practices. The EU have certainly already taken an interest and Palm are being unexpectedly bold.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

what's the quote got to do with your point  (and it's a good point too)


----------



## jæd (Jun 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> There are no glaring flaws left with this phone and amazingly its definitely snappier.  So I'm less inclined to get the 3GS.



Completely agree with all your points. If Apple does release the iTablet, I'm expecting it to be more some version of the iPhone O/S rather than full blown OS X.  Now that Office suites are coming out, all that's needed is a larger screen on the Touch and you have a netbook. (iTablet variety)

One of the problems of having access to 3.0 since about March is I've spent ages bouncing up and down, not being able to say anything about it...


----------



## Dask (Jun 18, 2009)

@ Editor we all know you don't  like the iPhone, but surely posting up every available negative article you can find on the interwebs is getting a bit tiresome?

Only joking, it wouldn't be the same without your usual put downs.

Let us have own fun even if the honeymoon period lasts a week or so.

Perhaps you should ban yourself from this thread for a week.

(meant in a light hearted way not meaning to cause any offense)


----------



## jæd (Jun 18, 2009)

Crispy said:


> what's the quote got to do with your point  (and it's a good point too)



I think its the assumption that Apple will actively balls up the Pre / Itunes sync. The quote would indicate though that Apple would make more $$$$ selling DRM free music to Pre owners. (Since this about the Pre, wouldn't it be more relevant in that thread...? Given a major firmware release for the iPhone has occurred...?)

Play nice.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

> Imagine a world where every online store sells DRM-free music encoded in open licensable formats. In such a world, any player can play music purchased from any store, and any store can sell music which is playable on all players. This is clearly the best alternative for consumers, and Apple would embrace it in a heartbeat. If the big four music companies would license Apple their music without the requirement that it be protected with a DRM, we would switch to selling only DRM-free music on our iTunes store. Every iPod ever made will play this DRM-free music.
> http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughtsonmusic/



Why lol??? 

He hasn't changed his mind has he? 

You can buy music from the Apple store and play it on any player now.... Just like I can buy tunes from elsewhere and play them on my iPod.. 

Pre have attempted to sync with iTunes, Apple said it may break cos they aren't going to check compatibility at each build... You can still play those purchased tunes on your Pre if they are non-DRM.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

But DRM-free music purchased from the itunes store is playable on any player regardless of whether it syncs with itunes or not. An AAC file is an AAC file no matter what.
(what kanda said!)


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Dask said:


> @ Editor we all know you don't  like the iPhone, but surely posting up every available negative article you can find on the interwebs is getting a bit tiresome?


I think the iPhone is a really terrific device - certainly the best handset currently available in the UK - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss other issues related to the phone (like Apple's control freak approach).


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Pre have attempted to sync with iTunes, Apple said it may break cos they aren't going to check compatibility at each build... You can still play those purchased tunes on your Pre if they are non-DRM.


The industry consensus is that Apple is threatening to go _out of its way_ to intentionally break the Pre's ability to sync with iTunes, in a move designed to make a competitor's product look less attractive to consumers. That's quite different to what you're saying.


----------



## Dask (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> I think the iPhone is a really terrific device - certainly the best handset currently available in the UK - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't discuss other issues related to the phone (like Apple's control freak approach).



That's completely fair enough. My comment wasn't meant as an attack on you, it was just a shite attempt at some sort of in joke involving this thread.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

This looks a useful guide to tethering your iPhone without paying a bomb: http://richardlai.xanga.com/704930537/enable-tethering-on-iphone-30---too-easy-worldwide-carriers/


----------



## jæd (Jun 18, 2009)

Crispy said:


> But DRM-free music purchased from the itunes store is playable on any player regardless of whether it syncs with itunes or not. An AAC file is an AAC file no matter what.
> (what kanda said!)



True. But having the device sync automatically makes is much easier (and more likely) for some one to buy.

"The industry consensus". That's a bunch of "LOLZ"...! More likely a bunch of pundits who want to make their hit count increase by some perceived Apple / Palm spat. When you think it through logically and rationally it doesn't add up.

I'm off to do so some work, but I expect 20 pages of nit-picking points by lunch time.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> The industry consensus is that Apple..........................................................



Although, would it actually kill you to save it - just for today, so that actual iphone users can discuss the new software in peace for a few hours without being interupted by your persistant apple bashing - however relevant _you_ think it might be.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> The industry consensus is that Apple is threatening to go _out of its way_ to intentionally break the Pre's ability to sync with iTunes, in a move designed to make a competitor's product look less attractive to consumers. *That's quite different to what you're saying*.


 
It's all opinion. Not fact. And?


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> Although, would it actually kill you to save it - just for today, so that actual iphone users can discuss the new software in peace for a few hours without being interupted by your persistant apple bashing - however relevant _you_ think it might be.


I'll discuss what I want, when I like thanks, and I don't believe ownership of an item has ever been a prerequisite of any discussion here.

If you weren't so busy serving up your predictable knee jerk response you'd see that I've just posted up a useful link instructing new iPhone users how to tether their phones without paying O2's rip off rates, and praised the iPhone as the "best handset currently available in the UK". Some 'bashing', then.





jæd said:


> "The industry consensus". That's a bunch of "LOLZ"...! .


Best ignore it, then. You clearly know best.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> This looks a useful guide to tethering your iPhone without paying a bomb: http://richardlai.xanga.com/704930537/enable-tethering-on-iphone-30---too-easy-worldwide-carriers/



Nice one.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 18, 2009)

So, that's a no then.

( oh, and 'if you noticed',  I said Apple, not iphone bashing)


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 18, 2009)

Had a call from the States yesterday & have noticed in the recent calls list it now gives you a location tag for the number if it's not in your address book.
It says 'Newark, NJ' under the number that called me.


----------



## Dask (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> This looks a useful guide to tethering your iPhone without paying a bomb: http://richardlai.xanga.com/704930537/enable-tethering-on-iphone-30---too-easy-worldwide-carriers/



Just followed the instructions on that site, and am posting this from my macbook connected to my iPhone via the USB cable.

I've switched off all Wi-Fi connections.

Works like a dream. See you later £15 a month


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Apple's implementation of copy and paste is about a thousand times better than Android's hopelessly clunky approach. Neither are as remotely fast as a trusty stylus of course, but such is progress.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Dask said:


> Just followed the instructions on that site, and am posting this from my macbook connected to my iPhone via the USB cable.
> 
> I've switched off all Wi-Fi connections.
> 
> Works like a dream. See you later £15 a month


Glad to be of assistance.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 18, 2009)

Mine's borked itself - corrupted icons. I think I'm the only person in the world this has happened to. I'm lucky like that (I seem to have the only light sensor bug too - I can't use auto-brighten). 

Oh well, a restore when I return home should help. Weird. Got even worse after a reboot. No jailbreak either.


----------



## Dask (Jun 18, 2009)

Poltergeist vibes.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

could be a hardware problem - dodgy gfx chip. looks similar to how PC gfx hardware fails


----------



## Dask (Jun 18, 2009)

Without sounding like a total cliche  have you tried doing a cold restart?

I had a problem a while ago when I couldn't connect to any data network GSM, Edge or 3G, I did a restart and everything worked fine.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 18, 2009)

Crispy said:


> could be a hardware problem - dodgy gfx chip. looks similar to how PC gfx hardware fails



Now you're worrying me!


----------



## Structaural (Jun 18, 2009)

Dask said:


> Without sounding like a total cliche  have you tried doing a cold restart?
> 
> I had a problem a while ago when I couldn't connect to any data network GSM, Edge or 3G, I did a restart and everything worked fine.



It actually got worse after a restart. A few people on macrumors reckon a restore should solve it. 
Or maybe I should leave it like this until the 3GS comes out and see if I can get a replacement


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They're basically reselling O2 contracts when you buy from the Apple Store, you can't buy an iPhone without one. It's the same as getting it from any shop except that they probably know more about the hardware.



Yeah I figured, but when you reserve how do they know which iPhone you want?


----------



## jæd (Jun 18, 2009)

Structaural said:


> It actually got worse after a restart. A few people on macrumors reckon a restore should solve it.
> Or maybe I should leave it like this until the 3GS comes out and see if I can get a replacement



Do the applications work...? What happens if you tab them. I would try:

a) A restore
b) Deleting your applications and then reloading them, either through a sync or via the App Store
c) Go to the Apple Store and ask for help/replacement if its in warrenty...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

jæd said:


> True. But having the device sync automatically makes is much easier (and more likely) for some one to buy.
> 
> "The industry consensus". That's a bunch of "LOLZ"...! More likely a bunch of pundits who want to make their hit count increase by some perceived Apple / Palm spat. When you think it through logically and rationally it doesn't add up.
> 
> I'm off to do so some work, but I expect 20 pages of nit-picking points by lunch time.



It does seem that Palm like highlighting things in a way which makes them out to be the victim and gaining further free publicity from a potential spat...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

metalguru said:


> I don't like the long-awaited copy and paste solution. There must be a better way (unless it just takes a bit of practice to get right consistently)


 
Huh? it's an absolute doddle...


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It does seem that Palm like highlighting things in a way which makes them out to be the victim and gaining further free publicity from a potential spat...


As I recall, Palm's comments have always come in response to what appears to be thinly veiled threats coming from Apple (see: multi touch patent and iTunes syncing), but feel free to elaborate on your fascinating theory, preferably supported by some relevent examples.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> This looks a useful guide to tethering your iPhone without paying a bomb: http://richardlai.xanga.com/704930537/enable-tethering-on-iphone-30---too-easy-worldwide-carriers/



O2 have responded saying they will disconnect anyone who does this.



> "Internet rumours suggest that some customers have modified their iPhone to enable Internet Tethering without the purchase of the Internet Tethering Bolt On. Any use of this particular feature without the purchase of the Bolt on is specifically prohibited under our terms of service.
> 
> "Under those terms we reserve the right to charge customers making modem use of their iPhone or disconnect them. If customers wish to use the Internet Tethering feature on their iPhone 3G or iPhone 3G S, we recommend taking the Bolt On which is available from Friday 19 June."


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> As I recall, Palm's comments have always come in response to what appears to be thinly veiled threats coming from Apple (see: multi touch patent and iTunes syncing), but feel free to elaborate on your fascinating theory, preferably supported by some relevent examples.



How exactly do you expect me to get hold of internal Palm PR documents or communications regarding their publicity strategy?


----------



## jæd (Jun 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It does seem that Palm like highlighting things in a way which makes them out to be the victim and gaining further free publicity from a potential spat...



What would you expect them to do...?  Everyone plays the PR game...!


----------



## Sunray (Jun 18, 2009)

Got an message from O2 about MMS messages not being available. It was the very 1st thing I did, O2 have known I will be able to do this at some point since February.   

FAIL


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Got an message from O2 about MMS messages not being available. It was the very 1st thing I did, O2 have known I will be able to do this at some point since February.
> 
> FAIL


 
I got that message but MMS Messages work already. Have you actually tried it?

i think it's due to the 3.0 update sometimes wiping some APN settings.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> As I recall, Palm's comments have always come in response to what appears to be thinly veiled threats coming from Apple (see: multi touch patent and iTunes syncing), but feel free to elaborate on your fascinating theory, preferably supported by some relevent examples.



as no doubt you will with these industry insiders who are collectively muttering about apples behaviour for balance like...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 18, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I got that message but MMS Messages work already. Have you actually tried it?
> 
> i think it's due to the 3.0 update sometimes wiping some APN settings.



I got that message too, that said "we'll enable it for you now and send you a message when it's done", and said message, a picture message, arrived a couple of minutes later. 

Not a problem.

Had no problems updating, btw. After it initially updated itunes said my sim wasn't recognised, I just disconnected and reconnected and it was fine. Everything seems to be working as it should.

First time I've plugged into itunes for a few months, so was expecting niggles but there were none. Spent the afternoon downloading loads of free apps since I haven't done for a while. Rearranged them all nicely too - don't enjoy doing that.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> O2 have responded saying they will disconnect anyone who does this.



I'd like to see them prove it... how is data traffic from an iPhone going to look any different from 'data traffic' on an iPhone


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> as no doubt you will with these industry insiders who are collectively muttering about apples behaviour for balance like...


Seeing as clearly can't be be arsed to look up any of the  popular mobile tech sites - almost all of whom have commented on what they believe Apple's intentions are - Google comes in quite handy at this point.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

It's all just speculation though


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> Seeing as clearly can't be be arsed to look up any of the  popular mobile tech sites - almost all of whom have commented on what they believe Apple's intentions are - Google comes in quite handy at this point.



this would surely cut both ways, editor. 

to repeat what someone recently said...



> The industry consensus is that Apple is threatening to go out of its way to intentionally break the Pre's ability to sync with iTunes, in a move designed to make a competitor's product look less attractive to consumers.





> but feel free to elaborate on your fascinating theory, preferably supported by some relevent examples.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2009)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I'd like to see them prove it... how is data traffic from an iPhone going to look any different from 'data traffic' on an iPhone



Indeed. Scare tactics.

I'm going to do it tonight. If they cut me off, I'll terminate my DD, jailbreak the phone and go get another SIM.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> this would surely cut both ways, editor.
> 
> to repeat what someone recently said...


Go to Google news. Type in "itunes palm pre". Be educated.



Kid_Eternity said:


> How exactly do you expect me to get hold of internal Palm PR documents or communications regarding their publicity strategy?


Then what are you basing your claim on?


----------



## Structaural (Jun 18, 2009)

jæd said:


> Do the applications work...? What happens if you tab them. I would try:
> 
> a) A restore
> b) Deleting your applications and then reloading them, either through a sync or via the App Store
> c) Go to the Apple Store and ask for help/replacement if its in warrenty...



Yeah everything works fine - just weird icons. I'll try a restore first, if that doesn't work a new-phone restore and copy everything back (I've everything difficult to back up, backed up using iPhoneView anyway). 

It's under T-mobile insurance - not sure how good that is...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> Go to Google news. Type in "itunes palm pre". Be educated.



I'm not the one demanding relevant examples of other peoples claims though. am I.  I'm simply asking you to apply what you've written to what you've said. you know consistancy and all that.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I'm not the one demanding relevant examples of other peoples claims though. am I.  I'm simply asking you to apply what you've written to what you've said. you know consistancy and all that.


*sigh. What's the point of this?

The evidence is all over the ruddy web. It is a current hot news story and anyone with the slightest interest in technology would have read it already. Even the Daily Mirror is carrying it, as are just about all the main tech sites over the Internet. 

However KE's unique spin on events seems to exist only in his head, and that's why I asked for clarification and some supporting evidence.

*sorry iPhone people. I'll not argue this any more.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> Then what are you basing your claim on?


 
He's speculating, based on what he thinks based on what he has read. Just as you are. give it a fucking rest. Geezus. 

It's REALLY boring.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> *sigh. What's the point of this?
> *sorry iPhone people. I'll not argue this any more.



it's precsiely that i'm asking you.  nothing more. to quote what someone recently said



> Be educated.


----------



## Private Storm (Jun 18, 2009)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I'd like to see them prove it... how is data traffic from an iPhone going to look any different from 'data traffic' on an iPhone



I'm no expert, but as far as I know you can tell if the data is coming direct from the iPhone or if the iPhone is being used as a router as the Time to Live (TTL) value associated with each packet is reduced by one


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

jæd said:


> What would you expect them to do...?  Everyone plays the PR game...!



Well exactly, my point is Apple = evil PR warriors vs Palm = poor little victim is amusing given that they are both profit hungry corporations playing the same game.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

Kanda said:


> It's all just speculation though



Well yes, but you know how it is, you're only allowed the right kind of speculation on here...


----------



## jæd (Jun 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well exactly, my point is Apple = evil PR warriors vs Palm = poor little victim is amusing given that they are both profit hungry corporations playing the same game.



Completely agree. But it makes it Tech News more fun for people who don't play the game. (Or understand it)


----------



## Private Storm (Jun 18, 2009)

Private Storm said:


> I'm no expert, but as far as I know you can tell if the data is coming direct from the iPhone or if the iPhone is being used as a router as the Time to Live (TTL) value associated with each packet is reduced by one



...but speaking to the director of technology here (I work for the boy's club that all the mobile operators are members of), he says you can't.

Be interested to see if anyone has been disconnected by morning!


----------



## jæd (Jun 18, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Yeah everything works fine - just weird icons. I'll try a restore first, if that doesn't work a new-phone restore and copy everything back (I've everything difficult to back up, backed up using iPhoneView anyway).
> 
> It's under T-mobile insurance - not sure how good that is...



Is it 3G and still under warranty...? Ie, not been jailbroken / jailbreaked...? Should be able to a replacement if it is...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

Kanda said:


> He's speculating, based on what he thinks based on what he has read. Just as you are. give it a fucking rest. Geezus.
> 
> It's REALLY boring.



The difference being I freely admit I'm speculating, although I've nearly a decades experience of dealing with the press/media/pr companies/press officers so I have an inkling when a comms strategy is being played out. 

Having had to employ a comms strategy from a resource restricted position I know the power of playing the 'fight against the Goliath' strategy...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2009)

Private Storm said:


> I'm no expert, but as far as I know you can tell if the data is coming direct from the iPhone or if the iPhone is being used as a router as the Time to Live (TTL) value associated with each packet is reduced by one



Yeah, that's actually probably true. Whenever a TCP packet travels through _any_ router, its TTL value is reduced by one, and as the ISP gateway would be the first port of call for any outgoing packets, they'd see a TTL recorded of 127 (rather than 128). They'd still have to be logging (no biggie) _and_ monitoring all the outbound TCP connections of their iPhone customers, though, which is a pretty large undertaking, I'd imagine.


----------



## hiccup (Jun 18, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> Yeah, that's actually probably true. Whenever a TCP packet travels through _any_ router, its TTL value is reduced by one, and as the ISP gateway would be the first port of call for any outgoing packets, they'd see a TTL recorded of 127 (rather than 128). They'd still have to be logging (no biggie) _and_ monitoring all the outbound TCP connections of their iPhone customers, though, which is a pretty large undertaking, I'd imagine.



Does that mean that this nifty little loop hole:

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=289162&highlight=iphone+dongle

might be more likely to close up, I wonder?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2009)

Ummm, possibly. I've not read that thread, so I'm not sure how it works.

I suppose... if you're on OS X/Linux, strictly speaking you could probably use something like netconfig to raise the default TTL value by one before you tether the phone...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2009)

Or like this:

http://www.pctools.com/guides/registry/detail/885/

On windows.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

You can edit the registery on windows to do this

http://www.talkbroadband.com/articl...dows2000{47}XP{47}NT:-Change-Your-Default-TTL

I guess set it to 33 or 65 or 129 or something else 2^n -1

Utility for OSX on this page

http://www.intrarts.com/software.html


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2009)

Tbh, if that's the extent of how they'll be telling if users are doing this, it's pathetic.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 18, 2009)

Been playing for a bit and I am very impressed with the hike in speed.  What was v2 doing that made it so slow?

Safari now loads nearly instantly, control is returned after going to a website much more speedily than before. That 'ive not rendered' chequered area is now pushed out to longer boundaries.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

Thinking about it O2 are missing a big trick here. If they had any sense they'd have the tethering work like their PAYG broadband dongle. It'd have no contract, you could choose the amount you want to pay (£2 per day, £7.50 for a week, or £15 for the month) based on your need/want and I reckon they'd make a ton more money than they're going to this way. 

It's not the paying I resent so much as the extreme inflexibility...


----------



## Sunray (Jun 18, 2009)

I think 15 quid on top of a 35 quid a month contract for limited bandwidth is taking the piss. 3G is hardly a stellar performer at the best of times.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2009)

Yep, I'll go without before I pay _another_ £15 a month for it. 

Rip. Off.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I think 15 quid on top of a 35 quid a month contract for limited bandwidth is taking the piss. 3G is hardly a stellar performer at the best of times.



And this isn't just any old 3G, this is _o2 3G_ - a rare beast even in London town - virtually non-existant in the countryside.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

dogmatique said:


> And this isn't just any old 3G, this is _o2 3G_ - a *rare beast even in London town* - virtually non-existant in the countryside.


 
Do you live underground?? 

I get it nearly everywhere. The only place I have ever noticed a crap service is half way up Brixton Hill for some reason.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 18, 2009)

My house and surrounding area is a good place to observe shit/non-existant 3G.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2009)

I mostly get 3G coverage on mine, although the speeds are very, very variable.

Centre of Bath seems to be a dead spot for it, though. Can't even get Edge there half the time. Probably some rule against masts ruining the picturesque loveliness of the place, or some such rubbish.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I think 15 quid on top of a 35 quid a month contract for limited bandwidth is taking the piss. 3G is hardly a stellar performer at the best of times.



That's what you pay for PAYG, and that's a fairly useful price plan in terms of flexibility. It not being great coverage is a fair point though...


----------



## hiccup (Jun 18, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Do you live underground??
> 
> I get it nearly everywhere. The only place I have ever noticed a crap service is half way up Brixton Hill for some reason.



It's fine in my front garden, but nowhere inside the flat, rather irritatingly.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

lol.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

laughing at fanboys thread here: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=256062


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Crispy said:


> laughing at fanboys thread here: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=256062


That's for the _one week queuers_.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 18, 2009)

There was a distinct lack of any queue outside the Apple store on Regent St tonight - presumably those that could spare the time to queue up last time can't afford the 450 quid it costs to buy a new 32GB one during your existing contract...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> lol.



So.. fucking.. what? 

Geezus.

4 or 5 idiots under umbrellas.. but you just can't resist disrupting threads with your crap.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 18, 2009)

dogmatique said:


> There was a distinct lack of any queue outside the Apple store on Regent St tonight - presumably those that could spare the time to queue up last time can't afford the 450 quid it costs to buy a new 32GB one during your existing contract...



I don't think they really encourage it a lot in this country. As I said before, they were trying to get people to sign up for appointments if they want to pick up phones on Friday, spacing them during the day.

I shall certainly be sure to post on this thread about it tomorrow when I get mine, assuming, of course, that the fact that Vodafone still haven't even responded about my PAC doesn't cause any problems.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 18, 2009)

Kanda said:


> So.. fucking.. what?
> 
> Geezus.
> 
> 4 or 5 idiots under umbrellas.. but you just can't resist disrupting threads with your crap.



Well _I_ thought it was amusing...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

Kanda said:


> So.. fucking.. what?
> 
> Geezus.
> 
> 4 or 5 idiots under umbrellas.. but you just can't resist disrupting threads with your crap.



You may as well not bother. It's his gaff, he can troll as much as he likes and nothing can be done about it other than to ignore it as best you can.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Kanda said:


> So.. fucking.. what?
> 
> Geezus.
> 
> 4 or 5 idiots under umbrellas.. but you just can't resist disrupting threads with your crap.


The queue is an integral part of the iPhone launch experience. Sorry if it upsets you.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

Ok, so apparently 3.0 gives me Street View in the maps app. How do I do it?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2009)

dogmatique said:


> Well _I_ thought it was amusing...



Me too.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 18, 2009)

After reading a few reviews and the new v3, the 3GS doesn't hold enough for me to want to go get it. 

I feel that its a mid life kicker to get them to the next model which I'll get as my battery will be dead by then.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 18, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Ok, so apparently 3.0 gives me Street View in the maps app. How do I do it?



V2.2.1 did that.  Click on a location, the pin pop up has two icons one is orange to the left click that.

Sorted


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> After reading a few reviews and the new v3, the 3GS doesn't hold enough for me to want to go get it.
> 
> I feel that its a mid life kicker to get them to the next model which I'll get as my battery will be dead by then.


Sounds like a fair assessment. My crystal ball reckons OLED screen and video calls (maybe through ichat instead of regular 3G?). What say yours?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2009)

My favourite app is still the current Google app, with it's Voice Search. Superb.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> V2.2.1 did that.  Click on a location, the pin pop up has two icons one is orange to the left click that.
> 
> Sorted


Ah. I had to dismiss then re-tap the popup. odd.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> The queue is an integral part of the iPhone launch experience. Sorry if it upsets you.



Go troll your own forums why don't you. I'm bored of it. 

I'll add this forum to the football forum as *avoid due to fucking idiots*

It's pathetic.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> After reading a few reviews and the new v3, the 3GS doesn't hold enough for me to want to go get it.
> 
> I feel that its a mid life kicker to get them to the next model which I'll get as my battery will be dead by then.



I reckon they'll release another well within the year.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> After reading a few reviews and the new v3, the 3GS doesn't hold enough for me to want to go get it.
> 
> I feel that its a mid life kicker to get them to the next model which I'll get as my battery will be dead by then.



Well said.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You may as well not bother. It's his gaff, he can troll as much as he likes and nothing can be done about it other than to ignore it as best you can.


Right. So the 'it's my gaff' comment is your way of suggesting that I'm somehow abusing my position and getting away with breaking the rules here, by, err, posting up an iPhone related photo in a thread for  iPhone-related news. Great logic there!

Several tech sites have covered this 'queue' story and shown similar photos, including CNN and Engadget. Engadget - an Apple fanboy site if ever there was one - found it funny, and several iPhone users commenting on their thread are laughing at the idiots in the queue. 

But then maybe they're not so pathetically uptight as you and grumpy Kanda. Lighten up for fuck's sake. It's only a picture.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> After reading a few reviews and the new v3, the 3GS doesn't hold enough for me to want to go get it.
> 
> I feel that its a mid life kicker to get them to the next model which I'll get as my battery will be dead by then.



It's a fine balance as to what sort of new hardware you can introduce without alienating an existing customer base. If you look, Apple have been quite careful as to features and not locking out older customers - they're obviously aware that iPhones are expensive and people are locked into contracts, and if they introduce an important new function that simply can't be done on older models, while some people will upgrade lots of them will just ignore it or switch platforms.

So, at the moment, the oldest iPhones still work well (my stepmother has one and she's perfectly happy with it) and the hardware changes in the 3GS are either minor additions or improvements on existing ones. You'd buy it over a normal 3G but it won't cripple you not to have it. The _real_ changes come in the software, and everyone can use that.

Pretty much like the Mac upgrade path really; the computers just get faster and lighter and so on but the big changes are in the OS and apps. The only real exclusionary platform change has been moving to Intel, and that's only just starting to make much difference, after several years. (Leopard locked out G3 processors but worked on G4+.)


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Ok, so apparently 3.0 gives me Street View in the maps app. How do I do it?


I'm discovering that a lot of 'cool' apps that I thought I'd love are kinda disappointing after I've used them for a while. 

I remember welling up with jealousy when I first saw someone using the street view feature, but now that I own a phone that not only has that installed, but comes with an interactive compass to make it whirr around, I've barely touched the thing. That's not to say it doesn't have some use, but it's not quite the killer feature I first thought it was.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> Right. So the 'it's my gaff' comment is your way of suggesting that I'm somehow abusing my position and getting away with breaking the rules here, by, err, posting up an iPhone related photo in a thread for  iPhone-related news. Great logic there!
> 
> Several tech sites have covered this 'queue' story and shown similar photos, including CNN and Engadget. Engadget - an Apple fanboy site if ever there was one - found it funny, and several iPhone users commenting on their thread are laughing at the idiots in the queue.
> 
> But then maybe they're not so pathetically uptight as you and grumpy Kanda. Lighten up for fuck's sake. It's only a picture.



I'm not uptight. I'm bored of your drivel. You've been asked to leave it out a few times today so people can discuss the release, all you do is carry on. What exactly was the point of you posting that picture? Other than to have YET ANOTHER pop at apple. It would be funny if it wasn't so damn predictable.

I don't give a fuck what you think, but if the boot was on the other foot and it was a Nokia launch or something, you'd be pissed off and call people disruptive.

All you are is disruptive in Apple posts, you seem to enjoy it. It's been pointed out by many but as said, it's your gaff, carry on.... we'll see who is pathetic... if we didn't know already.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

oh totally. it's just a way to show off  - same goes for google earth.

I have used street view on the computer before - it can tell me things that a map never could - especially if I'm planning to cycle in unknown territory. but I haven't been away from a computer and wanted to use it yet.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Sounds like a fair assessment. My crystal ball reckons OLED screen and video calls (maybe through ichat instead of regular 3G?). What say yours?


I think they'll have to put video calling on just to keep the feature set refreshed and entice upgraders, but I'm not sure if I'd ever use it.

Interestingly AT&T in the States are really moaning about the extra bandwidth being gobbled up by iPhone users and I can't see them being in a hurry to introduce features that are going to hit their network even harder. 

http://mystateline.com/content/fulltext/?cid=75931


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

AT&T are really taking the piss. No tethering and no MMS at launch. How hard can it be?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 18, 2009)

If you think mobile companies are bad here, they're _far_ worse in the States. They've actually got better recently too but they're still appalling.

Actually, US telecoms companies are really terrible generally in my experience.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 18, 2009)

Oh, and I can't see video calling. Firstly network speed and reliability still isn't there (you not only need bandwidth, you need _consistent_ bandwidth). Secondly the phone companies charge and will continue to charge _far_ more for it than anyone would ever see fit to pay, and they won't stop - like MMS, only way worse, some people do use MMS after all even if it's been a relative flop. And thirdly it really needs a front-facing camera, which would bulk out the phone and look ugly.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> But then maybe they're not so pathetically uptight as you and grumpy Kanda. Lighten up for fuck's sake. It's only a picture.



 It's not about one picture as you full well know, it's not about Kanda or anyone being in a bad mood, you've been pulled up about your trolling behaviour on more than occasion by your very own mods let alone us mere mortals. You can deny it, or try and spin it away as some kind of defence but it's plain to see.  So, anyway on with the thread now Editor's had his usual 'joke' at a decent threads expense.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Kanda said:


> What exactly was the point of you posting that picture? Other than to have YET ANOTHER pop at apple. It would be funny if it wasn't so damn predictable.


Its a thread about the iPhone, and today I've also posted up to comment that it's "certainly the best handset available in the UK", I also posted up a link to a handy guide to tethering the iPhone without paying O2's huge supplement (which at least two posters appreciated), had a discussion about Apple and Pre, oh, and posted up one picture that appears on several tech sites and will most likely appear on Apple sites too.

For some reason that picture has sent you berserk!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

I agree with FM's assessment above about the change coming in software and nothing hugely radical coming in hardware. I can't see any reason they'd want to jump the gun on releasing hardware advances when people are prepared to continue to pay for incremental upgrades...


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Crispy said:


> AT&T are really taking the piss. No tethering and no MMS at launch. How hard can it be?


I really think that might be (at least partly) down to capacity, you know.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 18, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh, and I can't see video calling. Firstly network speed and reliability still isn't there (you not only need bandwidth, you need _consistent_ bandwidth). Secondly the phone companies charge and will continue to charge _far_ more for it than anyone would ever see fit to pay, and they won't stop - like MMS, only way worse, some people do use MMS after all even if it's been a relative flop. And thirdly it really needs a front-facing camera, which would bulk out the phone and look ugly.



I'd have thought the fact you've been able to get it on most other handsets for at least 7 years and still nobody uses it (even with free mins) would be enough to show Apple there is no demand for it.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> For some reason that picture has sent you berserk!



I haven't gone berserk. I've just told you again, what many have told you before.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh, and I can't see video calling. Firstly network speed and reliability still isn't there (you not only need bandwidth, you need _consistent_ bandwidth). Secondly the phone companies charge and will continue to charge _far_ more for it than anyone would ever see fit to pay, and they won't stop - like MMS, only way worse, some people do use MMS after all even if it's been a relative flop. And thirdly it really needs a front-facing camera, which would bulk out the phone and look ugly.


They are going to hit a wall sooner or later without new features to make people want to keep on upgrading. and video is one of those things that sounds cool even if it is of limited use (a bit like the compass feature - I thought I'd love it, and the reality is that a £3 compass does a better job). 

Faster processors don't excite people much, and there's only so much RAM you can shove on a phone before people run out of content to put on it. Almost all the things that _are_ new and exciting on a handset (live TV, streaming video etc) involve burning up tons of bandwidth which it seems that the US networks haven't exactly got in abundance.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

you're probably right. I was just grasping at straws really. without breaking back-compatability, what hardware changes can they make? A HD screen maybe - the current one is 480x360, so doubling that to 960x720 would allow current apps to run with double pixels...


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> I really think that might be (at least partly) down to capacity, you know.



MMS messages are relatively tiny. Every network in europe has been supporting it for years. I can understand the reluctance to support tethering though - that could really suck down bandwidth. The _rumour_ is that tethering will be an extra _$55!_ a month.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

Crispy said:


> MMS messages are relatively tiny. Every network in europe has been supporting it for years. I can understand the reluctance to support tethering though - that could really suck down bandwidth. The _rumour_ is that tethering will be an extra _$55!_ a month.


Here's the bit I still can't understand. On my network, it's cheaper to send an MMS message when I'm in the US or Europe than a text message - even if the MMS has text attached.


Crispy said:


> you're probably right. I was just grasping at straws really. without breaking back-compatability, what hardware changes can they make? A HD screen maybe - the current one is 480x360, so doubling that to 960x720 would allow current apps to run with double pixels...


I guess mobiles will get smaller with folding screens and keyboards and whatnot, but there's got to be a point where consumers are just going to get bored with endless bolted on features. Regular iPods have just about reached that point - any smaller and they're going to become impractical and most punters are unlikely to be tempted to ever voluminous amounts of memory (just how many songs do you really need to carry with you?).


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

and of course it's far cheaper to send an image via email than it is by mms.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 18, 2009)

As I said I don't think they will make any significant hardware changes - they didn't this time after all. They don't need to and if they do, it could alienate older users. They will likely dick with the UI a bit more I expect, and make some changes there, but I don't expect a radically different iPhone, just maybe lighter, thinner, better battery etc.

I'd expect new apps and possibly net services, though Apple have a mixed record with net services. On the other hand you have the iTunes Music Store, massive unprecedented success and moneyspinner etc etc... then you have MobileMe, which is basically pretty crap.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> I guess mobiles will get smaller with folding screens and keyboards and whatnot, but there's got to be a point where consumers are just going to get bored with endless bolted on features. Regular iPods have just about reached that point - any smaller and they're going to become impractical and most punters are unlikely to be tempted to ever voluminous amounts of memory (just how many songs do you really need to carry with you?).



I think there is still loads of new features that we are yet to see, all the location aware apps that are arriving is just the beginning. What we need now is the ability to link huge amounts of data to them in a way that is still accessible through a 3 inch screen and is blindingly fast.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2009)

I think battery life is a growing issue for new phones. Every phone I get has a smaller battery life than the previous one (I know that's because of the bigger screen, but it does feel like I'm going backward).


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2009)

OLED screens should help there. And there are a bunch of interesting battery technologies in the labs right now. But having thought about it, I don't see massive changes in the actual experience of using a mobile phone in the next 5 years. Please someone quote this post in 5 years time.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 18, 2009)

editor said:


> I think battery life is a growing issue for new phones. Every phone I get has a smaller battery life than the previous one (I know that's because of the bigger screen, but it does feel like I'm going backward).



GPS really doesn't help either, its the one feature on my phone that eats my battery.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

Better battery is a must, better camera too would be nice. Being able to actually not carry around my compact because my phone is good enough would be great. Convergence ftw!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 18, 2009)

Crispy said:


> OLED screens should help there. And there are a bunch of interesting battery technologies in the labs right now. But having thought about it, I don't see massive changes in the actual experience of using a mobile phone in the next 5 years. Please someone quote this post in 5 years time.



I have read a few people talking about smartphones basically turning into mobile base computer units, with specialised screens and UIs for when they're not plugged in, then when you get to a desk you put them in a cradle and run them with a monitor and keyboard. That wouldn't surprise me.

Oddly I was saying that about fifteen years ago, except I didn't think a tiny screen would be any good and thought that people would use goggles and virtual keyboards, plugged into a computer at their belt. That sounds a bit retro now.


----------



## paolo (Jun 18, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I haven't gone berserk. I've just told you again, what many have told you before.



I've largely stopped posting in the thread for the same reason. It's relentless.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2009)

*12 Bugs We've Found In iPhone OS 3.0*





> Multimedia messaging does not support sculpture, macrame, or interpretive dance.
> Voice memo recordings totally don't sound like me. I don't sound like that, do I? Seriously?
> Turned on adult content filter but everybody in my videos still has their clothes on.
> Adding a task to calendar did not result in task getting done.
> ...


Link


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 19, 2009)

Re: Compass function: Actually very useful in augmenting the maps function - now you have real time, full directions; particularly for walking - it's all well and good having a pulsing dot showing you where you are, but it helps if it actually points you in the direction you should be walking - Having a "three quid compass" doesn't really give you the inclusive experience, does it?


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 19, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> I've largely stopped posting in the thread for the same reason. It's relentless.



Really? He's not that bad!


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

dogmatique;9297657]Really? He's not that bad![/QUOTE]Indeed. My comments may irritate some people here (sorry!) said:


> Re: Compass function: Actually very useful in augmenting the maps function - now you have real time, full directions; particularly for walking - it's all well and good having a pulsing dot showing you where you are, but it helps if it actually points you in the direction you should be walking - Having a "three quid compass" doesn't really give you the inclusive experience, does it?


Trust me: I was completely sold on the 'inclusive experience' of the built in compass,  but it's really a bit crap. Walking around using a phone as your compass feels a bit ridiculous, and unless your phone does proper multitasking, you're going to have to keep switching programs, while your battery burns down the whole time.

I love techie things, but a phone compass is often about as practically useful as a compass in the heel of your Wayfinder shoe, IMO.

Here's the conclusion of a just-published and rather upbeat 3GS review I just spotted:





> But the iPhone 3G S, while certainly not being revolutionary, has taken a significant step towards being the perfect touchscreen phone. Faster speeds, a more comprehensive camera suite and other smaller alterations (ie a compass) make the whole experience more complete, and the appeal of the iPhone will go even further than before.
> 
> It's annoying that some things like MMS-ing took so long to turn up, and even though landscape text input is now present, the phone cannot be solely used in landscape mode, so constant turning between portrait and landscape is needed.
> 
> ...


The reviewer seems as unimpressed with the compass on the iPhone as I am with my G1 one: 





> The compass seems to be a little bit hit and miss, often deciding that it needs to recalibrate itself. It also is integrated into Google Maps, which is nice, although we couldn't find out how to turn it off once we'd found where we were, as you don't always want to know which direction you're facing.


And finally: ne'er a fanboy in sight on Regent Street on Thurs eve!
http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=26345


----------



## Sunray (Jun 19, 2009)

Apple is running out of steam with what it can actually do with this device, I expect they are mindful of what a hardware split does to the App store. Its already started, the 3GS supports Open GL ES 2.0. Look at what that supports.

http://iphonefreakz.com/2009/06/12/shocking-iphone-3gs-graphics/

But that has to be written in a totally different way so expect 3GS and later only games at some point.



editor said:


> I think battery life is a growing issue for new phones. Every phone I get has a smaller battery life than the previous one (I know that's because of the bigger screen, but it does feel like I'm going backward).



This is the #1 restriction to mobile computing and now a road block.   ARM and others have made inroads to what is achievable on a genuinely portable device by design, but their main power saving win has come from making the chips smaller.  Something we have all benefited from in our laptops and desktops.

This can only go so far, as Crispy has said screen tech will help AMOLED uses 40% less power and that saving is set to grow but will reach a plateau.

Battery technology is lagging way behind what is possible in a small form factor.  If I could magically introduce a 1000Wh battery the size of a triple A, you could get:  proper HD recording with a proper zoom lens.  Xenon Flash.  UWB.  PVR with freeview. You could converge so many devices as the silicon for it all becomes tiny and commoditised.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 19, 2009)

editor said:


> If people get all worked up by me posting up a _single_ picture of an iPhone queue, why not just ignore it rather than sidetracking the thread with the ad hominems??


 
It's not a single picture though is it and you damn well know it. You get called up on it regularly by numerous people yet you always insist on your innocence. It's bollocks. If someone dares to question you here they get called a fanboy. 

Anyway.. thread all yours, I'm bored of it.


----------



## jæd (Jun 19, 2009)

Kanda said:


> It's not a single picture though is it and you damn well know it. You get called up on it regularly by numerous people yet you always insist on your innocence. It's bollocks. If someone dares to question you here they get called a fanboy.
> 
> Anyway.. thread all yours, I'm bored of it.



Well said. Though I get the feeling this post won't stay until the evening.


----------



## jæd (Jun 19, 2009)

This Greasemonkey script might help Kanda out. Its an enhancement of the one posted in Feedback or Community.  Replace personName with the name of someone you really, really want to ignore in the line:

plonk [1] = "personName";

Works a treat...! 


```
// ==UserScript==
// @name          VBulletinRealIgnore
// @description	  Removes posts by people on your ignore list, instead of just replacing them with a message that the post is hidden.  Removes some posts that reply to people on your ignore list.
// @include       http://www.urban75.net/*
// @exclude       
// ==/UserScript==

(function() {
	var allT;
	var plonk = new Array();
	allT = document.getElementsByTagName('table');

	// ignore quoted items by this user...
	plonk [1] = "personName";


	for (var i = 0; i < allT.length; i++) {
	    if(allT[i].innerHTML.match(/This message is hidden because <strong>(\w+)<\/strong> is on your <a href=\"profile/)){
		    allT[i].style.display="none";
	
	    	//Add ignored user to list of ignored users
	    	plonk[RegExp.$1] = RegExp.$1;
	    	}
	}

	// Remove posts that quote a user on the ignore list
	for (var i = 0; i < allT.length; i++) {

//		    if(allT[i].innerHTML.match("Originally Posted by")){
//			    allT[i].style.display="none";
//	    		}
 

		for (var x in plonk) {
		    if(allT[i].innerHTML.match("Originally Posted by <strong>"+plonk[x]+"</strong>")){
			    allT[i].style.display="none";
	    		}
  		}
    	}
    	
})();
```


----------



## Kanda (Jun 19, 2009)

Can't ignore Mods unfortunately 

Cheers for the effort though


----------



## jæd (Jun 19, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Can't ignore Mods unfortunately
> 
> Cheers for the effort though



Have you tried the script yet...?  

My ickle mistake


```
plonk [1] = "personName";
plonk [2] = "PersonName";
```

You need both capitalised and non-capitalised versions of a person's name...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 19, 2009)

how do you implement it?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 19, 2009)

Oh man, here's something that the ed would like: Agendus for iPhone. Just released. I'll be taking a look at _that_, certainly.


----------



## jæd (Jun 19, 2009)

Kanda said:


> how do you implement it?



You need to install the Greasemonkey Extension in Firefox, and then from the "Manage User Scripts" item on the "Tools" menu... PM me if you have probs...


----------



## Badgers (Jun 19, 2009)

I would normally ONLY buy from O2 direct 
There are some other deals kicking about though 
Might have to ask O2 to match them


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh man, here's something that the ed would like: Agendus for iPhone. Just released. I'll be taking a look at _that_, certainly.


It looks like it's got a fair way to go, but it's a good start. I loved Agendus on the Palm - especially the desktop client - although they seemed to lose focus on the end, endlessly strapping on features, some of which never seened fully implemented (like 'projects' which only worked on the handheld).

The calendar app on the iPhone (and the G1 and just about every other mobile OS I've seen) lag _miles _behind even four year old Palm apps like TMP. Although the multi calendar Google synchronising is a nice touch, I'm massively disappointed in the G1's calendar, and the Pam Pre's one doesn't look much better, so third party apps are the way to go. 

I really don't know why so many platforms find it hard to offer a decent default calendar.





jæd said:


> Well said. Though I get the feeling this post won't stay until the evening.


This appears to be an accusation of censorship here. I do hope you can back up (although quite what you're doing publicly posting up code designed to circumvent board policies is anyone's guess).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh man, here's something that the ed would like: Agendus for iPhone. Just released. I'll be taking a look at _that_, certainly.



And me too, I have Agendus for the Palm OS and it's the best PIM software I've ever used. Just little things like icons for your appointments so you know at a glance what kind of week you've got coming up is great. It's the one thing I'd miss about giving up my Centro...


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And me too, I have Agendus for the Palm OS and it's the best PIM software I've ever used. Just little things like icons for your appointments so you know at a glance what kind of week you've got coming up is great. It's the one thing I'd miss about giving up my Centro...


Although I'm suitably wowed by the swishy apps on my G1 and its iPhone-like interface, there's still a whole load I'm missing from the Palm.

Sometimes I get fed up dealing with big-buttoned interfaces that look like they were designed for a child and wish there was a Ye Olde Stylus to hand because it's the quickest way to get some things done. I've seen nothing to compare with Bonsai anywhere - any kind of lengthy checklist take up a ridiculous amount of screen space - and having a calendar that can present a clear weekly/monthly view with to-dos seems beyond every phone OS I've tried.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 19, 2009)

Saw someone walking about with a big O2 shopping bag with 'I Got It' emblazoned over it earlier

Talk about advertising yourself to muggers what you might have inside


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> Saw someone walking about with a big O2 shopping bag with 'I Got It' emblazoned over it earlier
> 
> Talk about advertising yourself to muggers what you might have inside


The phone will still sell a ton, but Apple are certainly having trouble recreating the buzz of the original launch. 






http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/19/iphone-3g-s-fizzles-out-for-global-retail/


----------



## Crispy (Jun 19, 2009)

Good. Less stupid hype.


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Good. Less stupid hype.


Agreed. I hate this imported, high-fivin' celebration of consumerism that Apple like to create for their product launches.

Edit to add: 3GS tear down here:
http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/19/iphone-3g-s-gets-the-quick-and-dirty-tear-apart-treatment-alrea/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

editor said:


> Although I'm suitably wowed by the swishy apps on my G1 and its iPhone-like interface, there's still a whole load I'm missing from the Palm.
> 
> Sometimes I get fed up dealing with big-buttoned interfaces that look like they were designed for a child and wish there was a Ye Olde Stylus to hand because it's the quickest way to get some things done. I've seen nothing to compare with Bonsai anywhere - any kind of lengthy checklist take up a ridiculous amount of screen space - and having a calendar that can present a clear weekly/monthly view with to-dos seems beyond every phone OS I've tried.



True about Bonsai...and you're right about the default calendar, I've never got why it's so hard for them not to produce something decent...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Good. Less stupid hype.



And good news for anyone trying to grab a unit on their way to work I should imagine...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 19, 2009)

editor said:


> The phone will still sell a ton, but Apple are certainly having trouble recreating the buzz of the original launch.



Indeed.

I was in NY for the launch of the first iphone and the hype machine was in overdrive - the queue for the Apple Store stretched round three blocks!







Check this for opportunistic fella selling his queue place for $5,000 and a free chair


----------



## Sunray (Jun 19, 2009)

Everyone who wanted one has one and the upgrade is too small an upgrade to warrant a queue.

Were Apple expecting queues?  I don't think they were.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

Ah Agendus on the iPhone doesn't include calendar integration thanks to Apple's policy of not letting people do interesting things with core functions...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Everyone who wanted one has one and the upgrade is too small an upgrade to warrant a queue.
> 
> Were Apple expecting queues?  I don't think they were.



I don't even know why we're discussing queues to be honest, it's such a non issue (as it was when the phone was first released). The impact of the iPhone, it's functionality for the user and Apple's business practices are far more interesting and pertinent things to discuss if you ask me... 

Dragging up this so called iHype (or lack of it) every time they release something is boring.


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Were Apple expecting queues?  I don't think they were.


Some of the tech sites are covering any queue they can find - no matter how small - and it looks like a line has dutifully formed in NYC.


Kid_Eternity said:


> Ah Agendus on the iPhone doesn't include calendar integration thanks to Apple's policy of not letting people do interesting things with core functions...


Oh FFS. That makes it pretty much pointless then.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 19, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I
> Dragging up this so called iHype (or lack of it) every time they release something is boring.


 
Isn't it just.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Everyone who wanted one has one and the upgrade is too small an upgrade to warrant a queue.


 
Well yeah i have an iPhone and it does what i need now so why do i need the latest one?

I don't care about voice commands, a compass, tethering or the improved camera (I carry a compact when i want to take pics or video).

Faster processor would be nice but i've gotten by nicely with the one I've got.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Dragging up this so called iHype (or lack of it) every time they release something is boring.


 
They really can't win as far as Editor is concerned on this point.

When they whipped up lots of hype it annoyed him and he showed his contempt.

Now that they haven't whipped up lots of hype you'd think he'd be pleased but once again its an opportunity for him to show contempt.


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

Gromit said:


> I don't care about voice commands, a compass, tethering or the improved camera (I carry a compact when i want to take pics or video).


I understand that voice control is clever, but I've never ever used it on any phone I've ever owned.

Apple's implementation looks slick enough, but I'd feel a bit of a berk barking at my handset to play songs and would like it even less if I found myself on a long train journey with some arse doing the same.

It feels a bit like technology for the sake of it, IMO.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jun 19, 2009)

got the missus an iphone as a chrissy pressie - it's been a fucking heap of shit tbh, she's had to do 2 system resets already and now she can't get any online connection whatsoever and needs to take it back to the shop. its got shit reception and she can't take or make calls in lots of places, 300 notes and the thing has probably worked ok for about one month in six.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 19, 2009)

editor said:


> I understand that voice control is clever, but I've never ever used it on any phone I've ever owned.


 
That's because you don't drive a car. Voice control is needed to fit laws I think, you're not allowed to tap away at a phone when driving. It's handsfree functionality, not exactly technology for the sake of it.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 19, 2009)

It's partly to comply with handsfree driving legislation, as has been pointed out upthread.


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

Gromit;9298852]Now that they haven't whipped up lots of hype you'd think he'd be pleased but once again its an opportunity for him to show contempt.[/QUOTE]Sorry said:


> It's partly to comply with handsfree driving legislation, as has been pointed out upthread.


Ah, OK. Pointless for me then! Drivers shouldn't be driving and talking on phones anyway IMO but that's a different issue.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

editor said:


> Sorry, exactly where have I showed 'contempt'?


 


editor said:


> Some of the tech sites are covering any queue they can find - no matter how small - and it looks like a line has dutifully formed in NYC.


 
That paragraph is dripping with contempt it seems to me.



editor said:


> I understand that voice control is clever, but I've never ever used it on any phone I've ever owned.
> 
> Apple's implementation looks slick enough, but I'd feel a bit of a berk barking at my handset to play songs and would like it even less if I found myself on a long train journey with some arse doing the same.
> 
> It feels a bit like technology for the sake of it, IMO.


 
Well yeah. I had a Razr. I set up the voice dialing. Used it twice. Never used it again. It seemed especially stupid when you had to press a button to activate voice recognition. Kind of defeated the object.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 19, 2009)

Kanda said:


> That's because you don't drive a car. Voice control is needed to fit laws I think, you're not allowed to tap away at a phone when driving. It's handsfree functionality, not exactly technology for the sake of it.





Crispy said:


> It's partly to comply with handsfree driving legislation, as has been pointed out upthread.



So when you're screaming at some old dear in front to 'Go' when the lights turn green does it suddenly crank out some Moby for you?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 19, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> So when you're screaming at some old dear in front to 'Go' when the lights turn green does it suddenly crank out some Moby for you?


If you've got moby on your iphone, you deserve it


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

editor said:


> Oh FFS. That makes it pretty much pointless then.



Yep.



Kanda said:


> Isn't it just.



Indeed.



Gromit said:


> They really can't win as far as Editor is concerned on this point.
> 
> When they whipped up lots of hype it annoyed him and he showed his contempt.
> 
> Now that they haven't whipped up lots of hype you'd think he'd be pleased but once again its an opportunity for him to show contempt.



Well quite, but there's little point going on about it now really...



Paulie Tandoori said:


> got the missus an iphone as a chrissy pressie - it's been a fucking heap of shit tbh, she's had to do 2 system resets already and now she can't get any online connection whatsoever and needs to take it back to the shop. its got shit reception and she can't take or make calls in lots of places, 300 notes and the thing has probably worked ok for about one month in six.



That's a bit crap although it can't be the general experience otherwise there'd be iUproar! 



Kanda said:


> That's because you don't drive a car. Voice control is needed to fit laws I think, you're not allowed to tap away at a phone when driving. It's handsfree functionality, not exactly technology for the sake of it.



Ah yeah that makes a great deal of sense...


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> So when you're screaming at some old dear in front to 'Go' when the lights turn green does it suddenly crank out some Moby for you?


 
Yep.

It also plays the Peter Gunn Theme is you say out loud:

"we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark, and we're wearing sunglasses, hit it!"


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

Gromit said:


> That paragraph is dripping with contempt it seems to me..


 Sunray wondered if Apple expected queues for the launch and I just posted a link showing that some parts of the media - at least - clearly did expect queues, and had sent out reporters to cover them. That was it. There was no 'contempt' implied or intended, and you've really misread my post.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

Crispy said:


> If you've got moby on your iphone, you deserve it


 
He's little enough to fit in my phone. When I ply Moby I therefore pretend its actually him trapped inside my phone.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 19, 2009)

editor said:


> Drivers shouldn't be driving and talking on phones anyway IMO but that's a different issue.


 
Are you allowed to talk to passengers when driving?

Don't want to get into a bun fight but how is it different if you've got full handsfree to talking to your passenger?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 19, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Are you allowed to talk to passengers when driving?
> 
> Don't want to get into a bun fight but how is it different if you've got full handsfree to talking to your passenger?


Passengers are aware of the road and conditions and moderate their conversation accordingly - ie. pausing while negotiating a tricky junction.

Studies have been done and linked here before, but I can't be bothered to look them up


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Are you allowed to talk to passengers when driving?
> 
> Don't want to get into a bun fight but how is it different if you've got full handsfree to talking to your passenger?


The difference is that passengers can see any danger and react accordingly (e.g. stop arguing when a situation arises), and there has been several reports highlighting the danger of driving and making calls.


> Using a mobile phone while driving could be as dangerous as being under the influence of alcohol, according to a new study, reports FreshNews.
> 
> "In fact, the study by researchers at Carnegie Mellon University found that drivers under the influence of alcohol and those speaking on cell phones tend to commit the same errors.
> 
> ...


There's a fairly in-depth thread on the boards about this, so it's probably best you head there if you want to discuss it further: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=289151


----------



## Kanda (Jun 19, 2009)

k, cheers.

Personally hate talking on the phone in the car, on a bus, anything. Just wondered.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

editor said:


> Sunray wondered if Apple expected queues for the launch and I just posted a link showing that some parts of the media - at least - clearly did expect queues, and had sent out reporters to cover them. That was it. There was no 'contempt' implied or intended, and you've really misread my post.


 
Okay then. I'll take your word for it. But they dutifully etc. were easy to misread in that case.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 19, 2009)

Handsfree or otherwise, it's virtually impossible to use a mobile on a bike, without all sorts of gimmicky in-helmet gadgets, so I'm completely uninterested in the voice control.

And everything else on the 3GS is similarly pointless to me, so still not upgrading.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 19, 2009)

Voice control is feature that smacks of them running out of features to add. 

You have to long press the home button and it drops out of voice command once it thinks you've issued a command, requiring you to long press the button again.  This makes it a pain in the arse in a car and if you were caught using it, illegal.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

editor said:


> There's a fairly in-depth thread on the boards about this, so it's probably best you head there if you want to discuss it further: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=289151


 
I don't want to awaken that thread out of the blue to quickly say one thing.

When people are asked a question they have to think about their eyes look up and to the side, away from the road (proven on a TV show I saw).

So having discussions whilst driving is bad whether on a phone or otherwise.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 19, 2009)

Is this the first urban post from a 3G S?


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Is this the first urban post from a 3G S?


 
Possibly.

How can we tell that its from a 3G S? 

It doesn't look any different to a post from a standard 3G.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Is this the first urban post from a 3G S?



How have you found it so far?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 19, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How have you found it so far?


By using the 'Find my phone' function, no doubt


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 19, 2009)

How speedy do you find web browsing now?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 19, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Possibly.
> 
> How can we tell that its from a 3G S?
> 
> It doesn't look any different to a post from a standard 3G.



Can't you smell the odour of sanctity?

I don't know, so far it seems quite similar to my Touch, though i'm already noticing some improvements just from OS 3.0. Filling in web forms is a lot easier for a start.

I've not got home yet so can't say what all my old apps look like on it, but I can at least say I have two pictures of the Wiggles.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 19, 2009)

Did you woop and hi-five the staff on your way out??


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 19, 2009)

I asked the chap at the counter whether they'd had a lot of people there and he said no, not particularly. "Everyone's already got one and they're locked into contracts," he added, "like me". There was a slight edge of bitterness there.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

Looks like they're about to sell out of 32GB white 3GS' at the Regent Street store...


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

When the white 3G came out I was warned by someone to steer clear. I forget why.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 19, 2009)

I got a black one simply for stain resistance to be honest.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 19, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like they're about to sell out of 32GB white 3GS' at the Regent Street store...



Oh no!!


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

http://www.iphonefreak.com/2008/07/white-iphone-3gs-beginning-to-crack.html

Did a quick search. Its cause on the white models any hairline cracks in the plastic show up prominently. Whilst on the black its less noticable.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like they're about to sell out of 32GB white 3GS' at the Regent Street store...


 
Its prolly just like the last release. They short stock them so that they get all the selling out stories out there and it seems popular.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

O2 claim it's selling well:



> A spokeswoman for the company said that the sales total includes both the 3GS and older 3G model, which was released last year, but as the price of the 3G has not changed the difference is probably accounted for by sales of the 3GS.
> 
> O2 said that some stores may sell out today, to be restocked at the weekend.
> 
> ...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 19, 2009)

I wonder how many mugs are paying for the tethering bolt on?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

Vid here (it's in german) of the 3G vs 3GS and some 3GS new stuff.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 19, 2009)

jæd said:


> Is it 3G and still under warranty...? Ie, not been jailbroken / jailbreaked...? Should be able to a replacement if it is...



A restore um restored it, copied everything back, just various setting and passwords to enter...

That processor in the new 3GS is pretty mean - I wonder if they'll allow it to run at normal speed in the new touch (833Mhz as opposed to 600Mhz) like they did with old one. 
Soon there'll be games for the new phone that won't run on the old..


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 19, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Vid here (it's in german) of the 3G vs 3GS and some 3GS new stuff.



Good speed comparisons. Nice to see actual video not just statistics.

3G S clearly is faster it seems.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> Good speed comparisons. Nice to see actual video not just statistics.
> 
> 3G S clearly is faster it seems.



Yeah Sim City loading was pretty decent, the app accessing and web browsing was excellent.


----------



## ethel (Jun 19, 2009)

just checked online. citylink tried to deliver mine but got no reply. i've phoned them. apparently  they didn't get any response on the intercom. i'm sure there is someone in though. so, this means that they haven't left a card. the operator has assured me that i can take 2 forms of ID instead. this better work, or there will be rage. o2 are porting my number on monday!


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

I just looked up the prices as a mate said he looked at iPhones in the lunch time and I thought he'd got the prices wrong.

You can now only buy the standard 3G in 8 Gig and its at the price i paid for my 3G 16Gig. 

What a rip!!!

I'm not eligible to upgrade until 1 month before my contract ends. Even if I wanted to it would cost me £187 for the same size model (16 Gig) and tarrif but in S.  

Apple / O2 have lost the pricing plot!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 19, 2009)

Peggle.

Wow. Addictive much?


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> just checked online. citylink tried to deliver mine but got no reply. i've phoned them. apparently  they didn't get any response on the intercom. i'm sure there is someone in though. so, this means that they haven't left a card. the operator has assured me that i can take 2 forms of ID instead. this better work, or there will be rage. o2 are porting my number on monday!


Citylink are the worst courier company on the planet so good luck!







A Citylink driver, yesterday.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 19, 2009)

editor said:


> Citylink are the worst courier company on the planet so good luck!


 
Seconded. 

The only places you can 'collect' rather than 'reschedule delivery' is London or London and London.

They often claim no one was in even if you were stood by the front door step all day with sandwiches, a thermos and a bottle to pee in.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Peggle.
> 
> Wow. Addictive much?



I've that game on the Xbox, it's fucking wicked! I reckon I'd buy it again just have to have a portable version it's that good.


----------



## Refused as fuck (Jun 19, 2009)

What's the likelihood of a 60 or 80 GB iPod Touch thing coming out soon? Is there anything similar to the Touch I can get with that capacity (I mean with a touchscreen, web, apps, etc)?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 19, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've that game on the Xbox, it's fucking wicked! I reckon I'd buy it again just have to have a portable version it's that good.



It's so kitsch too. I fucking love the rainbows and unicorns and music. Plus I'm still at a stage where it's not too difficult yet. 

I loved Bloons until I got to a level I could not do at all no matter how many years of my life I spent trying over and over and over and over again. Now I hate it


----------



## Refused as fuck (Jun 19, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> I fucking love the rainbows and unicorns and music.


 
Are you still talking about ipods?


----------



## Structaural (Jun 19, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> Peggle.
> 
> Wow. Addictive much?



 great init, seems to only take me 5 mins to get home now...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 19, 2009)

Refused as fuck said:


> Are you still talking about ipods?



 Yes, indeed. There are also lobster claws. And stars. But I mainly love the rainbows and the music. It's that music from the beginning of Everybody loves Raymond - I forget what it's called.



Structaural said:


> great init, seems to only take me 5 mins to get home now...



Almost makes you want to stay on the bus/tube/train


----------



## Crispy (Jun 19, 2009)

'Ode to Joy' (beethoven's 9th)


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 19, 2009)

Crispy said:


> 'Ode to Joy' (beethoven's 9th)



Thank you 

I feel so stupid now


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 19, 2009)

Refused as fuck said:


> What's the likelihood of a 60 or 80 GB iPod Touch thing coming out soon? Is there anything similar to the Touch I can get with that capacity (I mean with a touchscreen, web, apps, etc)?



(a) Pretty much zero, the cost of the flash drive would be exorbitant. You might get a 64gig next year or something.

(b) Not really. There's in fact not much like the Touch at all.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 19, 2009)

Archos and Sony make similarly sized machines, with wifi and web browsing, but they can't touch the touch for interface or 3rd party apps.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> It's so kitsch too. I fucking love the rainbows and unicorns and music. Plus I'm still at a stage where it's not too difficult yet.
> 
> I loved Bloons until I got to a level I could not do at all no matter how many years of my life I spent trying over and over and over and over again. Now I hate it



The music and explosions when you clear a level crack me up, it's so over the top!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 19, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> (a) Pretty much zero, the cost of the flash drive would be exorbitant. You might get a 64gig next year or something.



What's the difference between the memory in an iphone and the stuff they put in SD cards? You can get 32gb for about £50, so if it was the same stuff, it wouldn't be a huge cost compared to how much the unit costs.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 19, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The music and explosions when you clear a level crack me up, it's so over the top!



Heh, I know. Totally appeals to my sense of humour (such as it is).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

Apple store Regents Street is all out, O2 near Ox Circus had a massive long que with security guard outside (no high fiving or wooping however). Walked into a fairly empty Carphone Warehouse and bought a 32 gigger in black in just under ten minutes. 

Unpacking, it now.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 19, 2009)

Mine's being delivered by *City Link* on Monday...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 19, 2009)

dogmatique said:


> Mine's being delivered by *City Link* on Monday...



no it isn't


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 19, 2009)

Incidentally, if you, like me, get a new iPhone on PAYG, be aware that if you reset it or restore from a backup of a non-iPhone, like I did, it will change the data settings to the pay monthly ones which are the default, and you may find yourself swearing at the thing repeatedly while in the pub. You need to change the network access URLs (both of them, in Settings/General/Network I think) from idata.o2.co.uk to payandgo.o2.co.uk and then it works.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

Second post from an iPhone 3GS?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 19, 2009)

Nah, I only found that out when I got annoyed and came back home and googled it. Since I was unable to google it from the pub.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

I meant mine.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 19, 2009)

Aha. Well, perhaps second post for a unique iPhone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Aha. Well, perhaps second post for a unique iPhone.



Yup.


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2009)

Interesting piece about the Palm/iTunes syncing stand off here. Oh, it's from Macworld before anyone starts up:


> *Palm calls Apple's bluff on media syncing
> *
> There’s nothing quite like watching a good poker game: the bets, the raises, the subtle tics that reveal too much, the hushed murmurs of the crowd, and the simple knowledge that ultimately only one can walk away victorious.
> 
> ...



http://www.macworld.com/article/141202/2009/06/palm_calls.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

Ohhh Bloglines iPhone mobile version is very very nice!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2009)

TweetDeck is a bit good innit? Torn between it and Twitteriffic for my Twitter app of choice...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2009)

Anyone got any good suggestions for a decent poker game? Don't mind paying a couple of quid if it's really worth it. Has to be Texas Hold Em...


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jun 20, 2009)

so she spent 40 minutes on the phone to remote support and they said she needs to go the shop........


----------



## sim667 (Jun 20, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Anyone got any good suggestions for a decent poker game? Don't mind paying a couple of quid if it's really worth it. Has to be Texas Hold Em...



Texas Hold Em - search for that i think.....£2.99


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2009)

Can you play people online with it?


----------



## Sunray (Jun 20, 2009)

The 4th set of headphones has broken.  Warranty ends on the 17th July.  So I will have gone through 1 pair of headphones every two months or so.

I need higher quality because the replacements are clearly going to break when I get Apple to replace them.  I'm going to ask got a few pairs this time.

What happened to all the 3G 16Gb models?  They were available a week before the WWDC?


----------



## Xanadu (Jun 20, 2009)

Isn't the warranty required in EU countries something like 2 years?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 20, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> What's the difference between the memory in an iphone and the stuff they put in SD cards? You can get 32gb for about £50, so if it was the same stuff, it wouldn't be a huge cost compared to how much the unit costs.



I don't know the precise difference, but I expect it's to do with speed and performance and so on.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2009)

Xanadu said:


> Isn't the warranty required in EU countries something like 2 years?


Yes it is.

Edit to add: the makers of Agendus are having a tough time adding full program functionality to the iPhone because of Apple's restrictions. Read the story here: 
http://www.iampowered.com/archives/2009/06/19/addressing_a_couple_of_agendus_iphone_questions.php


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2009)

Copy and paste is very nicely implemented, I'm finding it far better than the Centro's version. Also, the keyboard is blinding! I can type faster on it than I could with the Centro with fewer mistakes.

Still can't decide between Twitteriffic and TweetDeck for it though...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2009)

Lengthy review of the 3GS here from iLounge.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lengthy review of the 3GS here from iLounge.


Seems in line with the rest - a good, positive review but saying that it's not really worth the upgrade if you've already got the 3G. 

It seems pretty trivial to me, but some people say they're hearing a high pitched sound off their 3GS. Can you hear anything? http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/06/20/iphone-3g-s-plagued-by-sound-issues/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2009)

editor said:


> Seems in line with the rest - a good, positive review but saying that it's not really worth the upgrade if you've already got the 3G.
> 
> It seems pretty trivial to me, but some people say they're hearing a high pitched sound off their 3GS. Can you hear anything? http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/06/20/iphone-3g-s-plagued-by-sound-issues/



Yeah I read that. Nothing like that has happened to my unit. It's been working as advertised.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 21, 2009)

editor said:


> Yes it is.
> 
> Edit to add: the makers of Agendus are having a tough time adding full program functionality to the iPhone because of Apple's restrictions. Read the story here:
> http://www.iampowered.com/archives/2009/06/19/addressing_a_couple_of_agendus_iphone_questions.php



Apple not making their calendar available isn't the end of the world. It's prety basic and most people in the need of agendus arnt going to be using it. Ita internal database is probably going to be too simple to be much use for a more sophisticated product.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2009)

Ooh I like the ability to turn any webpage into an icon on the icon menu!


----------



## Crispy (Jun 21, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ooh I like the ability to turn any webpage into an icon on the icon menu!


since forever I thought?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2009)

Crispy said:


> since forever I thought?



Um yeah, but not on a Palm Centro! 

(this is my first iPhone so forgive the kid with new toy on Christmas morning style postings!)


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Um yeah, but not on a Palm Centro!


You can, actually.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2009)

editor said:


> You can, actually.



Really? Ah well doesn't matter now!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2009)

Interesting comparison of the 3GS vs Palm Pre here.



> The new 3GS renders web pages 128% faster, on average, than the old iPhone 3G. The 45% clock speed boost alone isn't enough to generate such a large performance increase, this is a new microarchitecture. Also, note that the 3GS' performance mimics that of the Palm Pre - another Cortex A8 based phone.
> 
> Not too surprising given the just-released nature of the Pre's webOS, the 3GS is actually able to render webpages slightly faster than the Pre in some cases. The overall performance advantage ends up being 22.6% in favor of the 3GS over the Pre.
> 
> While the old iPhone 3G was no slouch, the 3GS is anywhere from 14 - 72% faster in basic application load times. It's the magic of a brand new CPU architecture.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2009)

I read that. It's worth noting that the Pre is substantially cheaper than the 3GS in the States, and I can't see the speed making that much of a difference in real world use - and some might argue that the 'card' webOS system would more than compensate for any shortcomings anyway. Both phones should be more than fast enough for almost all users. I find my G1 phone speedy enough and apparently that's a bit of a slouch compared to the Pre/3GS.

Edit to add: this website runs comprehensive speed comparisons between the Pre and the iPhone 3G and has the Pre substantially faster (up to nearly 50%) on both 3G and Wi-Fi browsing: 
http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3586&p=11


----------



## Crispy (Jun 22, 2009)

'Find my phone' feature lets iphone owner track down the thief


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 22, 2009)

I started a thread recently about how cool an app like that would be, although in my case, more that I'd be an idiot and lost it. I'd imagine a thief if they knew about it would keep it turned off until it could be disabled.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 22, 2009)

Crispy said:


> 'Find my phone' feature lets iphone owner track down the thief



yeah ive used it on mine..... handy tool i reckons


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2009)

sim667 said:


> yeah ive used it on mine..... handy tool i reckons


It's far from perfect though and likely to drain the battery faster.
"Apple's 'Find My iPhone' works great, but thieves can easily disable"
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10270273-2.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2009)

sim667 said:


> yeah ive used it on mine..... handy tool i reckons



Heh yeah I'm tempted to try out a trial of MobileMe just to see this in action. 

<feels the iLove>


----------



## jæd (Jun 23, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh yeah I'm tempted to try out a trial of MobileMe just to see this in action.
> 
> <feels the iLove>



It works quite nicely. MobileMe has come on a long way since the troubled launch. The Contacts / Calendar sync is very handy, especially on Mac.  (And of course push email is nice...)

Top Tip : If you do plump for MobileMe, shop around on Amazon and Ebay, etc... You often find great discounts for it.

Oh, not sure if anyone noticed but there's an update for the AIM App so that it supports notifications...


----------



## sim667 (Jun 23, 2009)

editor said:


> It's far from perfect though and likely to drain the battery faster.
> "Apple's 'Find My iPhone' works great, but thieves can easily disable"
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-17939_109-10270273-2.html



Yeah but i have a habit of leaving my phone here there and everywhere...... lol......


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2009)

1 million 3GS' sold in it's first weekend:



> Apple have announced they have sold over one million iPhone 3GS through Sunday, June 21st --the third day after its launch. Meanwhile six million users have downloaded iPhone OS 3.0 in the five days since it was released on Wednesday last week.



Wonder how many of them are first time iPhone owners compared to 3G or original iPhone upgraders...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2009)

Jesus the iPhone 3GS kicks ass in the 3D graphics department meaning some big stuff will be happening games wise in time: 



> How fast the iPhone 3GS's 3D graphics capabilities? Based on Daniel Pasco's some OpenGL ES speed test results for plasma on iPhone 3GS and an iPod touch, then John Casasanta, posted a few comparisons in 3D capabilities on iPhone 3G and 3GS. The result is: The 3GS is close to four times faster than the 3G!


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 23, 2009)

The fen_wife's new 3GS has turned up today. I'm not jealous at all


----------



## sim667 (Jun 23, 2009)

fen_boy said:


> The fen_wife's new 3GS has turned up today. I'm not jealous at all



Swap em over, put your 3g in the 3gs box..... she probs wont even notice


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Swap em over, put your 3g in the 3gs box..... she probs wont even notice





Random One is seriously tempted to get one after playing about with mine last night, I reckon she'll cave by Thursday and go get herself a 16 gigger.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 23, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Swap em over, put your 3g in the 3gs box..... she probs wont even notice



I'm thinking of this


----------



## Kanda (Jun 23, 2009)

Hockney turns to mobile art using his iPhone: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/arts_and_culture/8114741.stm


----------



## sim667 (Jun 23, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Random One is seriously tempted to get one after playing about with mine last night, I reckon she'll cave by Thursday and go get herself a 16 gigger.



Have u upgraded from a 3G?


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 23, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Swap em over, put your 3g in the 3gs box..... she probs wont even notice




I've not got a 3G I've got a blackberry 8900.... sob


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Have u upgraded from a 3G?



Nope this is my first iPhone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 24, 2009)

This is very cool!



> iPhone 3.0 features Calendar Subscriptions, where you can enter the URL for a shared calendar and near-instantly add it to your iPhone.
> 
> 
> That’s all well and good to share a family or business calendar, but what about more wide-ranging ones? What about national holidays, religious events, movie release dates, sports team schedules? Luckily, Apple’s already made this simple for Mac OS X iCal users, and even more luckily it works just as simply for iPhone 3.0 users as well.


----------



## Random One (Jun 24, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This is very cool!



oh man...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 24, 2009)

Heh give in...you know you waaant toooo!


----------



## madamv (Jun 24, 2009)

Hi iphone techie types... Can I ask a little favour?

Mr V wants to turn a tune into a ring tone on his 8g iPhone and cant figure out how?   Does anyone know how to do it please?


----------



## Gromit (Jun 24, 2009)

madamv said:


> Hi iphone techie types... Can I ask a little favour?
> 
> Mr V wants to turn a tune into a ring tone on his 8g iPhone and cant figure out how?   Does anyone know how to do it please?



Right click and do a get info.
Go to options and set the start and stop time you want.
Save.

Right click again
Select Convert to ACC Version
This creates a new version.

Find the file of the new version on your computer.
Rename to a .m4r file

Get iTunes to Add file to library and it should hopefully appear in your ringtones list now.

At least i think thats how.

You may need to reset the start and stop time on the original file afterwards.


----------



## madamv (Jun 24, 2009)

Thanks Gromit.... half way through it now...

*Find the file of the new version on your computer.*
Rename to a .m4r file


Where is it likely to be?


----------



## Gromit (Jun 24, 2009)

In my case:

Gromit[insert your own windows user name]/Music/iTunes/iTunes Music

Somewhere around there i think.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 24, 2009)

right click on the file and there's a 'reveal file in explorer' option (or finder on mac)


----------



## madamv (Jun 24, 2009)

Yipee!  

Ummmm  now we cant get it from the ringtones folder on the PC itunes, to his phone.  

Its synch'd and everything........


----------



## spitfire (Jun 24, 2009)

madamv said:


> Hi iphone techie types... Can I ask a little favour?
> 
> Mr V wants to turn a tune into a ring tone on his 8g iPhone and cant figure out how?   Does anyone know how to do it please?



Does anyone know how to do this on a Mac? Also does anyone know if you can add different alarm sounds?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 24, 2009)

http://www.ehow.com/how_2160460_custom-iphone-ringtones-free.html

http://www.google.co.uk/search?clie...ne+ringtones&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8


----------



## madamv (Jun 24, 2009)

Oi!  spitfire....   the clever people are helping me..

clear off


----------



## spitfire (Jun 24, 2009)

madamv said:


> Oi!  spitfire....   the clever people are helping me..
> 
> clear off



Cheers Crispy. 

Clever people help spitfire too, spitfire happy.

Now tell me about the wabbits.


----------



## madamv (Jun 24, 2009)

Woopy doo!  Done...  

That video was mental Crispy..  It seems taht we had the original tone too long as it wont upload over 30 seconds...

Who says me and the man shape dont do anything together!

I wont spoil it all by revealing what the ring tone was....

Pint for Crispy and Gromit at Endorset!!!


----------



## jæd (Jun 25, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This is very cool!



I think this may be cooler ...



> When we saw the 17+ ratings system in the App Store, we knew this day would come.  Dr. Macenstein (who else?) spotted the first iPhone App with nudity, Hottest Girls ($1.99 iTunes Link).



http://www.9to5mac.com/iPorn-iPhone-porn

NSFW, btw...


----------



## jæd (Jun 25, 2009)

Predictable Daily Mail "fury" story : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1195414/Fury-Apple-allows-porn-iPhone-time.html


----------



## fogbat (Jun 25, 2009)

jæd said:


> Predictable Daily Mail "fury" story : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1195414/Fury-Apple-allows-porn-iPhone-time.html



Awesome that they felt the need to illustrate it with an image of a scantily clad girl


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2009)

jæd said:


> Predictable Daily Mail "fury" story : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1195414/Fury-Apple-allows-porn-iPhone-time.html


That article is such a load of stinky bollocks. Weird why they chose to say the app "costs little more than a cup of coffee at £1.19," too.

Anyway I'm furious about the app. Obviously. Next they'll be telling us that kids can easily access porn on the phone's browser for less than a cup of tea.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 25, 2009)

madamv said:


> Pint for Crispy and Gromit at Endorset!!!


 
Pass my pint to Crispy. 

Its my 40th Birthday that weekend and so I have to spend it with mates in Cardiff. No Endorset for me 

Besides, I think it was Crispy who posted the advice that taught me how to do it anyway.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 25, 2009)

editor said:


> That article is such a load of stinky bollocks. Weird why they chose to say the app "costs little more than a cup of coffee at £1.19," too.
> 
> Anyway I'm furious about the app. Obviously. Next they'll be telling is that kids can easily access porn on the phone's browser for less than a cup of tea.



I want to know where they're buying their coffees. Mine cost me £1.95!!


----------



## spacemonkey (Jun 25, 2009)

jæd said:


> Predictable Daily Mail "fury" story : http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1195414/Fury-Apple-allows-porn-iPhone-time.html


 
From the comments section - 



> this isnt new, my bf was acessing porn as a teenager when he had a dreamcast....


 
lol


----------



## Gromit (Jun 25, 2009)

editor said:


> Anyway I'm furious about the app. Obviously. Next they'll be telling is that kids can easily access porn on the phone's browser for less than a cup of tea.


 
Kids won't buy this ap.






They are too good at finding free porn, music, films etc. that they ain't going to waste their booze money on buying it!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2009)

Heh. I've yet to muck about with the YT uploading, might give it a go...



> If there was any question about the significance of the iPhone 3GS’s impressive video functionality, here’s your answer: YouTube reports that in the six days since the iPhone 3GS was released last week, the number of mobile uploads has increased by a whopping 400%. For a single phone model to have such a major impact on the site is simply phenomenal.



Talking of video, is there a BBC iPlayer app for the iPhone?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 25, 2009)

just go to www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer then add that as a bookmark on your homepage.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2009)

Ah cool.


----------



## Callum91 (Jun 25, 2009)

Why on earth would anyone pay for porn?


----------



## Winot (Jun 26, 2009)

This may be an O2 problem rather than an iPhone problem, but every now and again visual voicemail takes 2-3 hours to alert me to a call *and* that call doesn't show up on 'missed calls'.  It is there if I call voicemail but of course I don't know to call voicemail because I'm not being told that I had a missed call.

Any ideas?


----------



## Refused as fuck (Jun 26, 2009)

Get a Mac.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 26, 2009)

wut


----------



## Refused as fuck (Jun 26, 2009)




----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 26, 2009)

Winot said:


> This may be an O2 problem rather than an iPhone problem, but every now and again visual voicemail takes 2-3 hours to alert me to a call *and* that call doesn't show up on 'missed calls'.  It is there if I call voicemail but of course I don't know to call voicemail because I'm not being told that I had a missed call.
> 
> Any ideas?



reboot... power off and power down... it's always fixed my A phone issues with the thing...


----------



## Gromit (Jun 26, 2009)

Wierd. Try to send my first MMS using 3.0. 

Failed three times. 

Then I got a txt from O2 saying You can't send picture messages yet because it's not set up for you. We'll let you know when it is. 

Then 10 seconds later a MMS from O2 with a pic saying Done. 

I get the impression it wasn't automated but an engineer.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 26, 2009)

*iPhone 3GS Graphics Even More Powerful than Imagined?*

Now this is an interesting tit bit of info:



> MacRumors is reporting that Apple’s new iPhone 3GS, while indeed using Imagination Technologies’ PowerVR graphics core, may just have a little more under the hood than previously thought:
> iPhone developers, however, have discovered that the iPhone 3GS has extension files named “IMGSGX535GLDriver” suggesting that the new iPhone uses the more powerful graphics processor intended for “high end” mobile devices. This may not be entirely conclusive evidence by itself but it is consistent with a report from a Anandtech commenter who claims to have heard directly from Apple engineers at WWDC that the iPhone 3GS does indeed use the SGX 535.​  Zoom. Zoom.
> In a related story, Apple has apparently raised their stakes in Imagination Technologies to 9.5% on the heels of Intel’s 16%.



Looks like Apple are real serious about the games market.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 2, 2009)

Anyone found a decent replacement for the iPhone's head phones, got to get mine replaced again, number 5.  My ER4's sound mint as they always do, but I want that super discrete mic and button like you get on the stock ones.  Other ones I've seen are massive things.

Am I alone in thinking 59 quid Apple care warranty extension is reasonable value for money?  It includes the battery.  I think I'm going to buy it.  My warranty runs on the 17th July.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 2, 2009)

How long does the Apple care warranty last? I have a pair of really good Seinhieser (sp!) ones but yeah would love a decent set with the control/hands free thing too. Apple ear phones are utter utter shit.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 2, 2009)

Perhaps paolo999 could tell us if his Sennheiser MM50s are still in one piece.

Amazon were doing them cheap, the sound qual was said to be good but the build quality was critisised.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 2, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How long does the Apple care warranty last? I have a pair of really good Seinhieser (sp!) ones but yeah would love a decent set with the control/hands free thing too. Apple ear phones are utter utter shit.



The 59 quid is an extra years warranty and its including the battery, but you have to buy it before the existing warranty runs out.

I wonder what they consider a bad battery?  Its had at least 400 charges since I bought it.  Once you start getting to the 600-700 mark its starts to show some age.  Its clearly not quite as good as it was.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 2, 2009)

600 hundred charges is what, roughly two years?


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2009)

£60 seems a lot of dosh on top of what you've already paid. Can you not buy a cheapo battery off ebay and fit it yourself? Besides, your current battery may last longer than you thought.


----------



## nick (Jul 2, 2009)

> 600 hundred charges is what, roughly two years?


It's just under 86 weeks if, like me, you need to charge it every night


----------



## Sunray (Jul 2, 2009)

editor said:


> £60 seems a lot of dosh on top of what you've already paid. Can you not buy a cheapo battery off ebay and fit it yourself? Besides, your current battery may last longer than you thought.



I only paid 159 quid for it, the contract doesn't count as I was already spending that on my out of contract K800i.

Its full insurance for it going wrong and you do get good service from Apple.  Given that to replace it its 440 quid for the 3GS PAYG, 60 quid is fairly cheap.  Proper iPhone 3G insurance is 11.95 a month.

e2a:

Actually this looks better  http://phonesure.net/, 59 quid for a years proper insurance.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 2, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Proper iPhone 3G insurance is 11.95 a month.


 
Or just claim off the house insurance you are already paying for.

When the iPhone first came out Carphone Warehouse were mis-selling insurance by telling people that it wouldn't be covered by your home insurance when it fact it would be.

They then had to refund me my insurance when I discovered this thanks to Watchdog.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 2, 2009)

I don't have a house so I don't have house insurance.


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Its full insurance for it going wrong and you do get good service from Apple.  Given that to replace it its 440 quid for the 3GS PAYG, 60 quid is fairly cheap.  Proper iPhone 3G insurance is 11.95 a month.


But won't you be out of contract soon? An extra £5 a month sure adds up on top of your regular monthly charge, especially when it's for a year old handset.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 2, 2009)

nick said:


> It's just under 86 weeks if, like me, you need to charge it every night



So it will easily last a 18 month contract then? Hardly seems worth paying for the extra cover really...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 2, 2009)

Gromit said:


> When the iPhone first came out Carphone Warehouse were mis-selling insurance by telling people that it wouldn't be covered by your home insurance when it fact it would be.



They're still doing that. The one I bought it from tried that line and I laughed and said it was bollox.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 2, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They're still doing that. The one I bought it from tried that line and I laughed and said it was bollox.



yep they tried it on me too......

surely if your phone does go wrong than o2 have to provide you with a handset to finish your contract?


----------



## nick (Jul 2, 2009)

> surely if your phone does go wrong than o2 have to provide you with a handset to finish your contract?



I recall reading somewhere recently that EU consumer law means that everything is guaranteed for 2 years. Though shops and manufacturers don't actually advertise this.

So arguably, they should replace/fix it even if you are 6 mths out of your 18mth contract and it goes wrong


----------



## sim667 (Jul 2, 2009)

nick said:


> I recall reading somewhere recently that EU consumer law means that everything is guaranteed for 2 years. Though shops and manufacturers don't actually advertise this.
> 
> So arguably, they should replace/fix it even if you are 6 mths out of your 18mth contract and it goes wrong



*goes to do some research*


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2009)

It does exist. And the Mail has got pumped up about it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ar-guarantee-goods-kept-secret-retailers.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 2, 2009)

I see the Facebook app is about to get an update. Push notifications coming later this Summer for it too, that would be *very* useful for Inbox messages.



> Facebook for iPhone 3.0 is coming very soon. I can't predict an exact date when I will submit to Apple, but I can say that I am about 98% done. So what's new in this update?
> 
> 1. The "new" News Feed
> 2. Like
> ...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 2, 2009)

IM+, which I have, already has Facebook with push - I'm not sure precisely what can be pushed, though.

Push works quite well as far as I can see but unless you're an IM fiend, but not enough of one to have the app open all the time, I don't really think it's that worth it. If you can get people to IM you rather than text you it saves a lot of money I suppose.


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> IM+, which I have, already has Facebook with push - I'm not sure precisely what can be pushed, though.
> 
> Push works quite well as far as I can see but unless you're an IM fiend, but not enough of one to have the app open all the time, I don't really think it's that worth it. If you can get people to IM you rather than text you it saves a lot of money I suppose.


Sadly, all that pushing impacts on your battery life and I'm pretty sure my Facebook updates aren't that important. 

The iPhone 3GS has a much better battery than the G1, but even so, push email soon starts to eat into battery life, as does a lot of the groovy smartphone features that look so compelling at first (location aware regular weather updates etc).


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 2, 2009)

I turn push off generally, it's not worth it. The battery on the iPhone... well, it isn't particularly bad, but when you start playing with the apps it's really, really easy to eat it all up, and I don't want to make that worse. If you leave it alone it lasts for a long time, but nobody does as far as I can see (what's the point of having a fancy phone if you don't use it?)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 2, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> IM+, which I have, already has Facebook with push - I'm not sure precisely what can be pushed, though.
> 
> Push works quite well as far as I can see but unless you're an IM fiend, but not enough of one to have the app open all the time, I don't really think it's that worth it. If you can get people to IM you rather than text you it saves a lot of money I suppose.



Didn't know IM+ did push Facebook, personally I'd prefer it in the FB app anyhow, given how important FB has become for me beyond personal use I'm looking forward to this with real interest.


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2009)

Android already does push Facebook email. I turned it off.
http://www.cyrket.com/package/com.nextmobileweb.fbook


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 2, 2009)

editor said:


> Android already does push Facebook email. I turned it off.
> http://www.cyrket.com/package/com.nextmobileweb.fbook



Ok, why is that relevant to a iPhone user?


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ok, why is that relevant to a iPhone user?


Sorry, there was some general chat about battery life and push notifications on smartphones a few posts ago, that's all. Different phone, same issues.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 3, 2009)

editor said:


> But won't you be out of contract soon? An extra £5 a month sure adds up on top of your regular monthly charge, especially when it's for a year old handset.



I got it as soon as I could but still 6 months to go on the contract. 

If it breaks, its 440 quid for a 3GS or what ever Apple charge to fix it, think 200 quid.  I can pay 59 for insurance and be covered for this for a year no matter what goes wrong apart from head phones if its 3rd party insurance though there is a 25 quid excess or everything apart from theft and dropping it in the loo from Apple.

or I can chance it and feel foolish if it breaks.

Gonna choose one or the other for peace of mind, prolly the insurance as I can pay monthly and cancel when I become eligible for upgrade.


----------



## editor (Jul 3, 2009)

Under EU law, you should be covered for up to two years for faults, but I would have thought the biggest risk would be losing the phone/getting it nicked, no?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 3, 2009)

How hard is getting the 2 years in this country though?


----------



## ch750536 (Jul 3, 2009)

editor said:


> Under EU law, you should be covered for up to two years for faults, but I would have thought the biggest risk would be losing the phone/getting it nicked, no?



Much more than that applies.

http://stopmoaningaboutireland.blogspot.com/2009/05/warranty-guarantee.html

Applies in the UK too.


----------



## ch750536 (Jul 3, 2009)

Sunray said:


> How hard is getting the 2 years in this country though?



It is EU law and is a contract with the retailer, so should be dead easy although tesco have already gone to court over some technika electronics, even though they own the company.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jul 3, 2009)

Also, in my experience if you get very shouty via well informed & well written letters to MD's etc, threatening bad publicity, they often think 'fuck we've got a live one here - throw them a bone to shut the fuck up' 
A couple of new handsets here & there are peanuts well thrown for them sometimes.
Worked a treat for me some years ago with T-mobile & a dodgy sony erricson they were trying to ignore.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 3, 2009)

editor said:


> Under EU law, you should be covered for up to two years for faults, but I would have thought the biggest risk would be losing the phone/getting it nicked, no?



Yeah that's the dilemma, although I notice that the people that tend to lose phones tends to happen while out pissed.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 3, 2009)

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/07/01/palm_pre_v_iphone_3gs/

palm pre vs 3GS by a guy who bought both.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 3, 2009)

Structaural said:


> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/07/01/palm_pre_v_iphone_3gs/
> 
> palm pre vs 3GS by a guy who bought both.



Long review by someone attempting an informed opinion which ends in:



> So, if you're choosing between a Pre and an iPhone 3GS today, buy the iPhone 3GS.


----------



## editor (Jul 3, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Long review by someone attempting an informed opinion which ends in:


And a little context: 





> In the 18 categories above, the iPhone 3GS came out on top in 10, the Pre in five, and three ended in a tie. But to give the iPhone the victory in this smackdown strictly based on the number of categories in which it rules would be doubly ludicrous.
> 
> Ludicrousness number one: Not all categories are equal. The Pre's multitasking capability is obviously more important than the iPhone 3GS's ability to record voice memos.
> 
> Ludicrousness number two: As I said at the beginning, webOS is in version 1.0x. Expect the Pre to gain in capabilities as its operating system matures - and expect updates to be free, as have been the iPhone's.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 3, 2009)

He didn't rate the keyboard, which to me would be one of the main advantages of the device. I guess that's going to be a subjective thing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 3, 2009)

If the keyboard is as he says they're going to need to do something about that - it's not something you can fix with a software update (well, you could improve the autocomplete, which is one of the things that really helps the iPhone). A bad keyboard can doom a device like that.

Generally a well written article I thought, and I'd agree with the general conclusion. If you want to go out and get a phone right now out of the two that will let you do the most stuff, the iPhone wins, but with so much that could happen to the Pre there's no way to say long term.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 3, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> He didn't rate the keyboard, which to me would be one of the main advantages of the device. I guess that's going to be a subjective thing.



At least it doesn't sound as bad as the Storm's keyboard.

I met my first real live person who'd got a Storm the other day, one of the staff at my local. She said it was the worst phone she'd ever had, and she sent it back. How common is it to actually send a phone back rather than put up with it?


----------



## Callum91 (Jul 3, 2009)

I've messed around with the Storms keyboard , it really is horrendous , no idea what they were thinking when they came up with that one.


----------



## editor (Jul 3, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> He didn't rate the keyboard, which to me would be one of the main advantages of the device. I guess that's going to be a subjective thing.


Absolutely. Some reviewers have had an entirely different experience and found the keyboard to be one of the Pre's greatest assets.

I have no problem knocking out long emails on the Centro's keyboard and that's *smaller* than the Pre's. I can't bear the cold, tactile-free touch of onscreen keyboards and I've certainly been giving the G1's a really good go recently. I've had quite long sessions on various iPhones too and always got really frustrated by the experience.


FridgeMagnet said:


> Generally a well written article I thought, and I'd agree with the general conclusion. If you want to go out and get a phone right now out of the two that will let you do the most stuff, the iPhone wins, but with so much that could happen to the Pre there's no way to say long term.


The really odd omission in that article's conclusion is the matter of price. The Pre is considerably cheaper than the 3GS in the States and that really should  be factored in when drawing comparisons - and according to this chart, the Pre is massively cheaper:







http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/hiner/?p=1817


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 3, 2009)

Unlimited voice and messaging is a bit much to use as a standard for comparison - unlimited data, you do need, certainly (or "fair use" data). Granted that AT&T seem to be rip off artists, but most people won't want a $100+ contract from anyone. Mine's on PAYG.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 4, 2009)

I tell you what, the battery life is starting to hack me off.

I don't know whether it's really the battery, or just that having the thing around makes me use it more. But I took it out with me today to Hampstead Heath, played with it a bit on the way and did some email and foruming, used Google Maps to find where I was going (or tried to), then took some pictures and video and audio when I was there and tried to log in a few times - something was wrong there, the signal was godawful even if I had five bars.

It ran out of juice just before I left the Heath. I know that having a bad signal can really mess with smartphone batteries, because they keep searching and finding a new signal and getting thrown off and searching again etc etc - I've had that with my Nokias in the past. But either way, I don't think that was excessive use. I'm looking at external battery packs now, to keep in my bag.

On the other hand when I'm staying in one place I can do a couple of hours of solid web surfing and emailing on 3G, and it only knocks it down by 50% or so, which is better performance than a netbook IME.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 4, 2009)

Turn of wifi when out, makes a huge difference. Also, drop the brightness as far as comfortable. 

..and yeah, it probably is cos you use it a lot more.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 4, 2009)

I turn off the wifi whenever I'm out of the house - it has a tendency to pick up random BT Openzones, which (despite the fact that technically I should be able to for free) I can never actually log into, and which vanish by the time the bus turns the corner anyway.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 5, 2009)

i turn of 3g when im not using it...... my battery lasts about 3 days on average.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 5, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I turn off the wifi whenever I'm out of the house - it has a tendency to pick up random BT Openzones, which (despite the fact that technically I should be able to for free) I can never actually log into, and which vanish by the time the bus turns the corner anyway.



Have you done the bit where you enter your mobile number and it goes away for a few minutes? Then its transparent.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 5, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I tell you what, the battery life is starting to hack me off.
> 
> I don't know whether it's really the battery, or just that having the thing around makes me use it more. But I took it out with me today to Hampstead Heath, played with it a bit on the way and did some email and foruming, used Google Maps to find where I was going (or tried to), then took some pictures and video and audio when I was there and tried to log in a few times - something was wrong there, the signal was godawful even if I had five bars.



I find its the GPS that kills my phone battery, the rest doesn't make much difference, even with lots of web browsing. Even wifi doesn't kill it like I thought it might. Maybe its google maps causing the problem?


----------



## jæd (Jul 5, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> I find its the GPS that kills my phone battery, the rest doesn't make much difference, even with lots of web browsing. Even wifi doesn't kill it like I thought it might. Maybe its google maps causing the problem?



Something to do with GPS. When GPS is turned on during Google Maps the battery drops quite fast. With "off" its fine...


----------



## Structaural (Jul 5, 2009)

Bluetooth is the biggest drain, make sure that's off. Bright screen uses a lot. If you're using the email checking and push - make it manual if out and about.

But the battery pack is the way to go (and carry your charger to recharge wherever you see a USB port , especially when you've had your phone for a year and it barely lasts the working day...


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I tell you what, the battery life is starting to hack me off.


The G1 is even worse. If I'm out for the day, I end up turning off just about every single feature that made it such a neat phone in the first place!  I know I bang on about it, but user-replaceable batteries really are a big deal for high spec smartphones. You can pick them up for £5 for the G1 and although it's still a bit of a pain remembering to pack the spares, it beats lugging about power packs.

I'd rather have a bigger, chunkier smartphone with a great battery life than a super stylish job that conks out as soon as you try using some of its cool features. My old Treo 650's extended battery went on forever, but just every phone I'm looking at has a fraction of its battery life.

As an iPhone user, wouldn't you prefer it if it was, say 5mm thicker in exchange for another few hours battery life?


----------



## Callum91 (Jul 5, 2009)

I don't see why you would use 90% of the iPhones functions when you're out and about. Phone calls , SMS and listening to music yes , looking at maps and stuff? Nah.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 5, 2009)

Stig has turned her G1 into a house brick with an extended battery.


----------



## kropotkin (Jul 5, 2009)

Fridge- is that a 3gs or a 3g?


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Stig has turned her G1 into a house brick with an extended battery.


Cheaper to buy a handful of spare batteries for the G1, I would have thought. They're as cheap as fuck (£4!).


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 5, 2009)

kropotkin said:


> Fridge- is that a 3gs or a 3g?



It's a 3GS, though everyone I know with a 3G has the same complaint.

Thank you all for your kind comments...

* I turned Bluetooth off as soon as I got it because it's pointless, so that's not the issue;

* I've noticed that the GPS really eats up the battery - you can see the % battery counter ticking down when you use Google Maps for any length of time - but I don't use it _that_ much, I'm only on Gmaps for maybe ten minutes a day if I'm out (it is fun watching the blue dot bounce along the road as the bus moves, but not _that_ much fun). At least, I don't _think_ I'm using the locations much. I suppose there might be some background thing checking, only, I doubt it since one of the things about the iPhone is that it doesn't allow apps to run in the background.

* The BTOpenzone wifi just never works for me, I select "O2" in the provider pulldown and it just sends me back to the same page. Ho hum. Not a huge deal.

I have a feeling that it's a combination of constantly bumping in and out of service provider zones, which as I've said I've seen really hammer the battery of standard Nokias etc too, and that I just play with it more. I might try turning off the GPS next time I'm out and see if that makes any difference.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 5, 2009)

Unlike a normal phone, I hammer it once I hit the road when I am out.  Its providing me music and I browse away.

Battery is shit and has been shit.  I'd like a lithium polymer version which would mean they could give it a more powerful battery with less weight.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 5, 2009)

Callum91 said:


> I don't see why you would use 90% of the iPhones functions when you're out and about. Phone calls , SMS and listening to music yes , looking at maps and stuff? Nah.



Maps, hell yeah, that's one of the major things you want it for. I think the Gmaps app on the iPhone is actually quite shit in terms of UI - it's really unintuitive, a horrible mess of different methods of getting information - but I still use it whenever I'm going to a place that I've not been to before. I could print out a google map of the area before I left, but unless I knew the battery was dead, what would be the point?

Apart from that it's

* checking email and clearing my inbox
* organising my task lists
* banning people on Urban
* playing games

so really mostly time-wasting stuff. But for at least the first three, it's more efficient to spend time doing them on the train than waiting until I get home or to a point where I can use my laptop.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 5, 2009)

editor said:


> The G1 is even worse. If I'm out for the day, I end up turning off just about every single feature that made it such a neat phone in the first place!  I know I bang on about it, but user-replaceable batteries really are a big deal for high spec smartphones. You can pick them up for £5 for the G1 and although it's still a bit of a pain remembering to pack the spares, it beats lugging about power packs.



I've got a couple of batteries now, leave a generic one in most of the time and near a charger, so when out and about for a couple of days the HTC will hold the most charge possible. I've got one that stick out the back if I'm planning on using at as a GPS for the days and don't want to faf round opening it up the wet. 

What apps does android have running by default that eats battery? Everything I use I've got to set of to check, weather, mail, etc.

I get 2/3 days out the factory 1350 mha, check email a few times a day, listen to music on car journeys, visit a few web pages and some calls and texts, guess my useage must be lighter then most.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 5, 2009)

This issue is one of the major reason I'd have liked to see a AMOLED screen on the GS.

Samsung have it on their Jet phone so its not so hard.  Not only does it look great and have a proper viewing angle.  It uses 40% less power.  

The screen is the biggest killer of power.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 5, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Unlike a normal phone, I hammer it once I hit the road when I am out.  Its providing me music and I browse away.
> 
> Battery is shit and has been shit.  I'd like a lithium polymer version which would mean they could give it a more powerful battery with less weight.


I thought it already was? You can't get li-ion that thin...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 6, 2009)

Weird about the BT zone thing, I pick em up and log on dead easy, it just asks for my mobile number and that's it...

Anyway, fans of Sega Columns should get themselves to the app store pronto as it's going free this weekend!


----------



## Sunray (Jul 6, 2009)

Crispy said:


> I thought it already was? You can't get li-ion that thin...



No, its standard Li-ion, 1100mAh  

Its a wonder they don't use Li-polymer tbh, its not in any danger of exploding so doesn't need the metal case that li-ion batteries do hence there is a distinct weight advantage.   Something given Apples Mac Book Pro experience, you would have thought they would have included one by now.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jul 6, 2009)

Just got my 3G S on Saturday. It's very good; the most noticeable thing so far is the sheer _speed_ of it compared to my old iPod Touch, when rendering web pages and so forth. Bear in mind, I'm more likely to be impressed by it given that I've been using a 3 Skypephone for the last two years; I'm sure I'll start to find niggling annoyances before too long.

Looking forward to using the Maps app - that was one of the big draws for me as the touch's Maps was tethered to wi-fi, and the Skypephone stopped running any apps at all about one day after the warranty expired.


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 6, 2009)

So the fen_wife has one now.

It's great to use, but there's a few niggles.

No IMAP IDLE so no push gmail, which is shit.

gmail contacts sync. The iphone chooses to sync them to a separate folder that doesn't display them in a nice list like the normal contact screen, why? I can't find a way to move them.

Whenever she's out and about the email won't switch to 3g or edge, it seems to rely on a wifi signal and just not work otherwise. Browsing seems to work ok in the same situation.

The import contacts from SIM button will not import contacts from her old Samsung G600 SIM. No error, just doesn't work. In the end I had to import to Outlook, then sync Outlook to Gmail the Gmail to iphone.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 6, 2009)

fen_boy said:


> So the fen_wife has one now.
> 
> It's great to use, but there's a few niggles.
> 
> ...



I have no such problem on my 3G, not that I use the email feature.


----------



## jæd (Jul 6, 2009)

fen_boy said:


> Whenever she's out and about the email won't switch to 3g or edge, it seems to rely on a wifi signal and just not work otherwise. Browsing seems to work ok in the same situation.



Haven't seen this myself... Have you got correct url for the email provider you are using...? And is the phone set to check automatically for email...?


----------



## Random One (Jul 6, 2009)

Does the iphone record how many texts uve sent, can only see the minutes used in the usage section but nothing about texts


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 6, 2009)

jæd said:


> Haven't seen this myself... Have you got correct url for the email provider you are using...? And is the phone set to check automatically for email...?



Yes and yes. It's very odd, I haven't had a proper look into it yet though, this is just what the fen_wife has reported.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 6, 2009)

Give it a hard reset, hold the power and home button down till it powers off.


----------



## neonwilderness (Jul 7, 2009)

editor said:


> As an iPhone user, wouldn't you prefer it if it was, say 5mm thicker in exchange for another few hours battery life?



I've just been browsing the O2 shop (considering a 3GS) and spotted this charging case.  Seem like a good idea, but £49 is a bit steep for a few extra house battery life!


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2009)

neonwilderness said:


> I've just been browsing the O2 shop (considering a 3GS) and spotted this charging case.  Seem like a good idea, but £49 is a bit steep for a few extra house battery life!


Bit clunky/flappy compared to a spare battery too! 

Image here: http://www.logic3.com/_images/products/1200/615-2.jpg

You can get the same thing for £33 from here: http://www.thehut.com/hut/10035808.product?utm_source=googleprod&utm_medium=gp&utm_campaign=gp_games


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 7, 2009)

neonwilderness said:


> I've just been browsing the O2 shop (considering a 3GS) and spotted this charging case.  Seem like a good idea, but £49 is a bit steep for a few extra house battery life!


Logic 3 stuff has, in my experience, been of terrible build quality too, so I'd avoid.

Because of the position of the charging interface, the flap on that case comes down rather than up so you end up with the cover flapping round your mouth or having to fold it back when talking on the phone.

A nicer, but still flawed and expensive, attempt is the InCase Power Slider.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 7, 2009)

Random One said:


> Does the iphone record how many texts uve sent, can only see the minutes used in the usage section but nothing about texts



No, but if you get a program called allowance of the app store (59p i think)..... and put in your o2 log in details it will keep u updated about how many mins and hours you've got left each month.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 7, 2009)

editor said:


> *Bit clunky/flappy compared to a spare battery too! *
> 
> Image here: http://www.logic3.com/_images/products/1200/615-2.jpg
> 
> You can get the same thing for £33 from here: http://www.thehut.com/hut/10035808.product?utm_source=googleprod&utm_medium=gp&utm_campaign=gp_games



 It doesn't have replaceable batteries.  We know.  

The Mac Book Pro doesn't either.   Good video on the Apple site on why they did what they did.

If you look at the size of the battery then its obvious if they made it removable they would have to make the phone bigger or the battery smaller.  I like it the size it is.

Its not a biggy, my power pack can recharge my phone twice if I remember to take it with me.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 7, 2009)

double post


----------



## Sunray (Jul 8, 2009)

I really like the cut and paste implementation.

Wonder who's gonna copy that 1st.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 8, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I really like the cut and paste implementation.
> 
> Wonder who's gonna copy that 1st.



Funny enough was talking about this last night, I find I use it more on my iPhone than I ever did on the Centro. It's excellent, very intuitive and non fiddly.


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2009)

iPhone fans! Gorge yourself on these apps!

The 101 best iPhone apps in the world today
http://www.techdigest.tv/2009/07/the_101_best_ip.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2009)

*iPhone users do more of everything*

Apparently US iPhone users do more of everything on their phone...not really a revelation really but interesting read non the less:



> A hat tip to my friend Clyde Bentley at the University of Missouri for flagging up these tasty bits of intel on iPhone use and users in the US from Nielsen. Normally, I'd just chuck this link into our Newsbucket, but there are just too many interesting numbers here.
> Just a few intriguting numbers about iPhone users before you follow the link:
> • 37% watch video on their phone (6x as likely as the typical subscriber)
> • iPhone users look good to mobile marketers. Forty-percent have household incomes of $100K or more – twice the ratio among all subscribers (19%).
> • 72% used location based services (7x as likely as the typical subscriber)


----------



## Refused as fuck (Jul 10, 2009)

If by "really interesting" you mean to say "extremely  boring", then yes. Yes it is.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 10, 2009)

ebuddy (a messenger service that keeps you logged on when not-loaded) has push notifications activated. For those that message....


----------



## Structaural (Jul 10, 2009)

... works well, doesn't show the exact message, but gives you the option to close current app and reload ebuddy when someone responds to you. But it only keeps you logged on for 30mins tops. First succesful use of push for me anyway (2 years later)


----------



## Sunray (Jul 10, 2009)

Bit of a waste of time if your only logged in for 30min.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2009)

IM+ has push, lets you specify how long you want it to keep you logged in, and more importantly doesn't make you sign up for some proxy service and just lets you use your normal logins.


----------



## ethel (Jul 10, 2009)

i downloaded IM+ earlier. seems to be working well!


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apparently US iPhone users do more of everything on their phone...not really a revelation really but interesting read non the less:


Do those figures refer to similarly equipped smartphones, or is it just a pointless assemblage of numbers?


----------



## Structaural (Jul 10, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> IM+ has push, lets you specify how long you want it to keep you logged in, and more importantly doesn't make you sign up for some proxy service and just lets you use your normal logins.



does it, I missed that. *eek 7.99*


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2009)

Refused as fuck said:


> If by "really interesting" you mean to say "extremely  boring", then yes. Yes it is.



Nice misquote, conflate two separate statements to make your point...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2009)

editor said:


> Do those figures refer to similarly equipped smartphones, or is it just a pointless assemblage of numbers?



Can't see the distinction in the article or the linked one. This from the UK is perhaps a better piece:



> comScore, Inc. (NASDAQ: SCOR), a leader in measuring the digital world, today unveiled for the first time its data describing iPhone users in the United Kingdom, finding that 93 per cent of iPhone owners accessed mobile media in January.
> 
> According to comScore, *mobile e-mail is used by 75 per cent of British iPhone owners, making it the most popular type of mobile content consumed on the device.  “Consumers are clearly embracing the iPhone’s touch screen keyboard,” *observed Alistair Hill, analyst, comScore. “The penetration of e-mail usage on the iPhone is more than double that of the smartphone category as a whole. Over the past several quarters, the UK smartphone market has been dominated by the N95, which lacks a QWERTY keyboard. As a result, we see smartphone users favour using their device for music and photo messaging, two activities for which these Nokia devices are particularly well-suited, more than e-mail.”


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Can't see the distinction in the article or the linked one.


Can't see much point in a set of figures that show that more iPhone users access location based services than users with phones that, err,  don't support  location based services.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2009)

editor said:


> Can't see much point in a set of figures that show that more iPhone users access location based services than users with phones that, err,  don't support  location based services.



Is that what's happened here?


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is that what's happened here?


Sure looks that way to me. What do you think?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2009)

I'm not convinced either way, there's no proof of how the data was weighted from what I can see...


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2009)

This excellent piece from an iPhone user (and Engadget Chief Editor to boot) trying to get work done on his phone sums up the sort of frustrations I'd get with the device (and smartphones in general - my G1 is awful for most of my work tasks). 

Obviously, if you're more interested in browsing, playing games and listening to tunes with your phone, this article doesn't apply to you, but I'll go along with article's conclusion that multi tasking and a proper keyboard are the way to go if you want to use your phone as a work tool...(unless your job is listening to music all day long etc etc)





> ...my work requires that I use a bunch of web tools, look at lots of news sites, and have a feed reader open... basically, things that would require some level of multitasking. Imagine the frustration of having to constantly break the connection in chat to go look at a site or work on a post. It's frustrating, let me tell you. The idea of jumping into and out of applications -- of having to actually quit an app to move to another one -- is an incredibly outmoded and foreign idea in 2009.
> 
> Additionally, the email experience on the iPhone is brutal -- and to get anything done in a day as Editor-in-chief of Engadget, you need your mail. As a Gmail user, the way the native iPhone mail application handles messages is counterintuitive at best. Google presents a lovely browser-based solution for email, but it is markedly hampered by the browser environment itself. It's slow and inaccurate to navigate, though obviously better if you need to bounce between an open page and your mail.
> 
> ...


----------



## Callum91 (Jul 10, 2009)

If he doesn't like the email/lack of multitasking/lack of a proper QWERTY keyboard , why did he buy an iPhone in the first place?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2009)

Mm.

My ex-flatmate is a Mac consultant, and I mentioned to her in an email recently that I'd got a new iPhone. She said that she'd been astounded that some of her clients were saying they could do all their work on the iPhone now. My reply was "anybody who can do their job on an iPhone doesn't have a real job".

Anyway, I don't really have any sympathy for that bloke; he seems to be basically whinging that he can't run a dozen things at once like he does on a desktop on his phone. _No shit_, it's a phone. I'd say primarily he needs to get the hell off the internet for five seconds of his damn life and maybe read a book or something when he's waiting for the doctor. I dare say Engadget will be able to push out goshwow gadget posts without him. If not he needs to _do one thing at a time_.

I actually do quite a lot of work using my iPhone - but it's not the only thing that I use. I take it out with me when I'm reviewing something, or planning something, or trying to work out what the hell I'm supposed to be doing. I can read and reply to emails, look stuff up on the net, plan appointments, manage my task list, bookmark articles etc, very much like I did with my Palm. As well as that I have a bag with a (paper) notebook in it and some pens - sometimes I put a netbook in the bag too if I might need to code or something. If I'm stuck on the tube and can't take pens/netbook out I can usually productively clear my inbox, do some task and calendar review, read some PDFs, make some mindmaps, again, much like I used to with the Palm. But I don't expect to be able to simulate being at my desk just with one gadget.


----------



## Callum91 (Jul 10, 2009)

Exactly , peoples expectations of the iphone are just way too high. The result? People constantly whinging that it can't do this or that but something else can. If you don't like what the iPhone can or can't do , don't buy one.


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2009)

Callum91 said:


> If he doesn't like the email/lack of multitasking/lack of a proper QWERTY keyboard , why did he buy an iPhone in the first place?


Seeing as Engadget is a legendarily Apple fanboy site with an inflated sense of their own importance (anyone remember their 'open letter to Palm?'), perhaps he's hoping Mr Jobs will read his piece and swifly implement the suggested changes. Or maybe he just got carried along by all the 'there's an app for that' hype and thought the iPhone could do everything without bothering to think it through.

I do agree that proper multi-tasking is an absolute must for any kind of writing/research work on a handset though. Maybe the Pre's cracked it, but until they sort out copying and pasting from web pages it's just going to fall short in a different way for what the author's looking for. 

I guess the key problem is battery life, and seeing as Apple seem committed to not letting users change batteries, multi-tasking for the iPhone is going to remain some way off.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2009)

editor said:


> I do agree that proper multi-tasking is an absolute must for any kind of writing/research work on a handset though.



I would tend to disagree; I've done research on the iPhone and all I do is either bookmark things (with standard bookmarks, del.icio.us, or Instapaper which is great and not as well known as it should be) or in extremis C&P chunks into something.

Multi-tasking's actually irrelevant for any app unless it (a) does something in the background - and doesn't have push - or (b) requires lengthy reconnection processes, which browsers don't. Apps save their state so, say, if I look something up on Wikipedia, copy some text then switch to Notebook to paste it in, when I go back to Safari the page is still there and it doesn't have to reload it.

You can't really _write_ much on a phone, but then, well, phones are always going to be a bit crap for that.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 10, 2009)

If I was going to do real work I'd lug about my desktop replacement laptop.

 17" 1900x1200 display dual core machine.  Fuck working on a device with a diddy screen.  1900x1200 isn't enough for me but I'd get by I suppose.  

My iPhone would stay as my music and phone device.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2009)

Callum91 said:


> If he doesn't like the email/lack of multitasking/lack of a proper QWERTY keyboard , why did he buy an iPhone in the first place?



Sounds like a bit of a dickhead really. He should have bought another phone...


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I would tend to disagree; I've done research on the iPhone and all I do is either bookmark things (with standard bookmarks, del.icio.us, or Instapaper which is great and not as well known as it should be) or in extremis C&P chunks into something.


Have to say I'd find being able to flick between multiple email messages/replies and  browser/SMS/chat windows  _very_ productive for my work.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Mm.
> 
> My ex-flatmate is a Mac consultant, and I mentioned to her in an email recently that I'd got a new iPhone. She said that she'd been astounded that some of her clients were saying they could do all their work on the iPhone now. My reply was "anybody who can do their job on an iPhone doesn't have a real job".



That's an interesting reply. I know three organisations (one is one of the bigger think tanks in the UK) that have or are switching over to iPhones for their staff. All are intensive emailers (they've moved from Blackberry's) etc and they're doing fine.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 10, 2009)

Nice little perk getting an iPhone from work.

Couldn't ever imagine doing proper work on something so small.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's an interesting reply. I know three organisations (one is one of the bigger think tanks in the UK) that have or are switching over to iPhones for their staff. All are intensive emailers (they've moved from Blackberry's) etc and they're doing fine.



I would doubt that they expect their staff to do all their work on an iPhone (or a Blackberry) though.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 10, 2009)

editor said:


> Have to say I'd find being able to flick between multiple email messages/replies and  browser/SMS/chat windows  _very_ productive for my work.



You _can_ though, if the apps save their state. You don't need multi-tasking for that. For instance I frequently flip between email and task manager; it remembers where I was before I changed apps.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2009)

Sunray said:


> *Nice little perk getting an iPhone from work.*
> 
> Couldn't ever imagine doing proper work on something so small.



Yep that's what I said!



FridgeMagnet said:


> I would doubt that they expect their staff to do all their work on an iPhone (or a Blackberry) though.



Of course but only an idiot would expect a phone to be a laptop replacement. My point was the iPhone is perfectly usable for what the majority of smartphone users want if organisations are now dumping the Blackberry in favour of it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You _can_ though, if the apps save their state. You don't need multi-tasking for that. For instance I frequently flip between email and task manager; it remembers where I was before I changed apps.



Yep which is why I don't think the Ed's point holds much water, I haven't really suffered in how my productivity works since moving from the Centro to the iPhone. It's just a different way of working...


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2009)

FridgeMagnet;9395133]You _can_ though said:


> Yep which is why I don't think the Ed's point holds much water, I haven't really suffered in how my productivity works since moving from the Centro to the iPhone. It's just a different way of working...


But - as I believe we've already established - your phone use is quite different to mine. Seeing as I've only ever been speaking for myself, it's quite ridiculous for you to suggest my comments don't "hold much water."


----------



## Gromit (Jul 11, 2009)

I still don't see the iPhone as a business phone and am not sure why its being pushed as such. I personally don't want a keyboard on my phone. I'm happy with the virtual one.

Can't they just come up with a USB one that plugs in so its an optional extra i dont have to pay for?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 11, 2009)

editor said:


> Can you have multiple active email and browser windows open and view and flick between them instantly?



Pretty much, it's very quick. Well, you can only have one email open at a time with the client, but you could use webmail I suppose.

Even if you couldn't it wouldn't be to do with multi-tasking.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Pretty much, it's very quick. Well, you can only have one email open at a time with the client, but you could use webmail I suppose.
> 
> Even if you couldn't it wouldn't be to do with multi-tasking.


I could be wrong, but I suspect Palm's way of doing things with its flickable 'card' interface might prove more productive than you think.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 11, 2009)

I've not said a single word about the pre at all!


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I've not said a single word about the pre at all!


That's strange because you responded to a post where I was specifically detailing Pre's unique way of multi tasking!


----------



## Pie 1 (Jul 11, 2009)

Y'know that you sound like a child playing Top Trumps in the playground on this thread?


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> Y'know that you sound like a child playing Top Trumps in the playground on this thread?


Oh, why don't you just grow up?


----------



## Callum91 (Jul 11, 2009)

He's right though isn't he? You take every oppertunity available to rubbish Apple and the iPhone yet you seem incapable of taking any critisism of the Pre.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 11, 2009)

I do believe he is rubber and you are glue


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2009)

Callum91 said:


> He's right though isn't he? You take every oppertunity available to rubbish Apple and the iPhone yet you seem incapable of taking any critisism of the Pre.


Tell you what. Why don't you toddle off and find a recent comment from me where I've "rubbished" the iPhone? Can you do that?

In return, I'll do my best not to point out your astonishing hypocrisy as witnessed by your stream of negative comments in the Pre thread - a phone you've never even touched or _ seen_, let alone played with, yet can only slag off.

To get you started, here's two posts of mine from just two days ago: 



			
				editor said:
			
		

> ...the iPhone is the* best smartphone currently available*


..and...



			
				editor said:
			
		

> I don't think *any phone can match the iPhone for sheer build quality*.


Gosh. I really don't know how how Apple will ever get over such a terrible 'rubbishing.' LOL.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jul 11, 2009)

editor said:


> Oh, why don't you just grow up?



Riiiiiight.
And do what? 

Bore everyone's bollocks off with an endless circle jerk of comparison?
Mention the same points that _*you*_ don't personally like about 20 bloody times? - WE GET IT EDITOR!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 11, 2009)

Lol! Give it up, it really ain't worth the effort. This is his place and he can act like a petulant geek all he wants. There really is no point calling him on it because he cannot concede any real ground.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol! Give it up, it really ain't worth the effort. This is his place and he can act like a petulant geek all he wants. There really is no point calling him on it because he cannot concede any real ground.


Seeing as you're slopping it around for the second time now, could you explain the significance of the 'it's my place' comment, please? 

It feels like it's some sort of cheap slur suggesting that I'm somehow abusing my mod position and I find that suggestion to be bang out of order. 

I'm breaking no rules here at all. You may not like what I write, but my posts are on topic and polite - unlike your cheap personal attacks and insinuations. If you can't bear me criticising Apple's practices (notably, while praising their products), ignore my posts. It's not hard.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 11, 2009)

Been umming and ahh'ing about insurance.  Insuring this phone is reasonably cheap about 5 quid a month but that comes with a 25 quid excess, so exclude minor faults and the headphones.

Apples care for a year is 59 quid, but there is no excess on that and it covers the headphones, I got headphones #5 today.  No loss or accidental damage, but I can walk into the Apple shop and get it fixed there and then.  I think I might get both on the basis I'll likely get my money back from the Apple care on headphone replacement alone, I'll be at #10 this time next year.

Incidentally I had a go at the 3GS today and couldn't tell much of a speed difference.  If you have a 3G then its identical apart from a marginally better camera.  I have a feeling that Apple can't be resting on just releasing that model to carry the flag for the next year.  I expect a new more premium version release some time soon.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Been umming and ahh'ing about insurance.  Insuring this phone is reasonably cheap about 5 quid a month but that comes with a 25 quid excess, so exclude minor faults and the headphones.
> 
> Apples care for a year is 59 quid, but there is no excess on that and it covers the headphones, I got headphones #5 today.  No loss or accidental damage, but I can walk into the Apple shop and get it fixed there and then.  I think I might get both on the basis I'll likely get my money back from the Apple care on headphone replacement alone, I'll be at #10 this time next year.
> 
> Incidentally I had a go at the 3GS today and couldn't tell much of a speed difference.  If you have a 3G then its identical apart from a marginally better camera.  I have a feeling that Apple can't be resting on just releasing that model to carry the flag for the next year.  I expect a new more premium version release some time soon.


Quite a few anecdotal reviews have found precious little speed increase in real world tests. Maybe you'll notice the difference in your area otherwise  I guess it's down to whether you think you'll get much use out of the compass and video.

As for your insurance, I've always been reluctant to fork out for it on any of my phones. 

Maybe it might be cheaper for you to just buy a decent pair of third party headphones that are more durable seeing as you seem to be exceptionally unfortunate with the Apple ones (are there quality control issues here - five headphones is an awful lot!).

Seeing as they're often used when I'm cycling, my headphones get treated pretty rough but the only damage any of them have sustained is where the cable has frayed by the jack plug - and that's been fixable by a bit of gaffa. I'm using some Sennheisers at the moment nd they sound great. They cost £17 (I think).


----------



## Sunray (Jul 12, 2009)

That is the reason I have a feeling that Apple are going to release something more interesting this year.  The 3GS is just a kicker for the 3G, you have to go into the Camera application to be able to tell its a 3GS (there is a video/stills switch), its not written on the phone or about screen.

The headphones are definitely a quality issue, I was very careful with #4 but sitting at work, started buzzing.  These are 20 quid a pair to replace.  I have some very nice ones already, but they don't have the mic and button that the stock ones do and I've missed it.  The stock ones are about the cheapest out there with the mic and button and sound pretty decent when they work.

I've never lost or damaged a Phone but I've never owned a phone that is as expensive to repair and replace as this one is, OK I could take the view that nothing is going to happen and save the money, but for 60 quid I'm going to get the Apple care, covers the phones and the battery.  This will take me well into new phone territory.


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2009)

You could get an adapter with a built mic that lets you use your own 'phones. I'm sure you can find cheaper that this example (I can remember getting one for the Palm for about £8) but here's an example: http://store.apple.com/us/product/TN544LL/A?mco=6C04E07A

I'm not convinced that there's a new iPhone model set for release this year  - the 3GS has only just come out and I can't think what could they introduce to justify another model upgrade - but it's your call whether you want to fork out another £60 for your existing model. 

It seems a bit odd to start paying insurance on an old handset to me but I guess it's a case of how confident you are that it won't get nicked/lost/damaged! There's no doubting that 18 month contracts suck. No doubt O2 will foist that on the Pre too.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 12, 2009)

I'm speculating, its just nearly an identical phone for nearly the identical price, 15 quid more on contract for the 16Gb version. I think they are going to try to milk this phone and its popularity as hard as they can.  Having just 3 models doesn't allow for more premium products which I reckon they could sell.  I am more than willing to admit that this might not be the case, but if I was Apple i'd get as many models out there as I could. Competitions is starting to warm up a bit.

I think that my phone just stopping working is the most likely thing, having never lost or had one stolen.  Thats if it goes wrong at all.  With Apple care I have to buy it before the existing warranty runs out, so in the next 5 days.  Benefit is that I don't have to deal with insurance if it goes wrong.

18 month contracts for the fail.  I may well get the PAYG version next time.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2009)

I noticed a real difference in speed between the 3G and 3GS in terms of apps opening up and loading. Web also renders faster.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2009)

Interesting piece here on the app store as it enters year two:



> Building the App Store using the iTunes infrastructure was a brilliant move on Apple’s part. It allowed them to sell software to millions of users with a minimal amount of development. Look at it this way: would you rather have lost the first 6 months of revenue while waiting for Apple to perfect the system used to deliver our applications?
> 
> But now iTunes presents problems for both Apple and third party developers because of this simple fact: software is not music. I believe this is the basic issue that both parties are coming to grips with:
> 
> ...


----------



## Refused as fuck (Jul 13, 2009)

If you call something which is objectively boring "interesting" again, I _will_ bludgeon you.


----------



## jæd (Jul 13, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I noticed a real difference in speed between the 3G and 3GS in terms of apps opening up and loading. Web also renders faster.



Yes, espcially if you put them side-by-side...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2009)

Refused as fuck said:


> If you call something which is objectively boring "interesting" again, I _will_ bludgeon you.



That was a very interesting post.


----------



## Refused as fuck (Jul 13, 2009)

Thank you.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2009)

No, thank you.


----------



## Refused as fuck (Jul 13, 2009)

No. Thank _you_.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2009)

Refused as fuck said:


> No. Thank _you_.



NO. Thank *YOU*.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2009)

Oh Please


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Oh Please



We're just joking man...


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2009)

It was supposed to be a joke


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2009)

Crispy said:


> It was supposed to be a joke



Oh dude, you must try harder!


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2009)

Or take 5 seconds before hitting 'Post Quick Reply' to reflect on the quality of my posts


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Or take 5 seconds before hitting 'Post Quick Reply' to reflect on the quality of my posts



*nods*

Anyway...downloaded the free version of Rolando, quite fun, music is bonkers! As a gaming machine the iPhone/touch really has a big role to play.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2009)

Rolando music is by Mr. Scruff


----------



## kropotkin (Jul 13, 2009)

I _may_ have bought a 16gig 3gs

Thanks chaps.

Now to find loads of apps to stuff it with...
Can I make it wake me up to Radio 4? This looks like it might do it


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2009)

@ Crispy

Ah right, well that explains it.

In other news (and this is very very Interesting), EA have formed a dedicated iPhone games studio:



> *EA has established a new iPhone development studio called 8lb Gorilla.*
> 
> According to Touch Arcade, the studio’s young team is focused on capturing the 99¢ market with regular releases, beginning with _Zombies & Me_ "very soon."
> 
> EA has previously enjoyed iPhone success with established franchises such as Tiger Woods, Need For Speed and The Sims. _The Sims 3_ took the number one spot on the iPhone/iPod touch app store in 37 countries within two days of launch.



Good news. Hopefully other big publishers will do likewise. Really wish a iPhone version of Civ would get a release, it's the perfect device for it!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2009)

kropotkin said:


> I _may_ have bought a 16gig 3gs
> 
> Thanks chaps.
> 
> ...



Nice one! Look forward to reading your app finds...


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2009)

Anything, anything for iphone Civ!


----------



## Structaural (Jul 13, 2009)

Most expensive app I've seen so far is up: Navigon Mobile Navigator, a Tom Tom competitor - yours for 99 euros...


----------



## sim667 (Jul 13, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Most expensive app I've seen so far is up: Navigon Mobile Navigator, a Tom Tom competitor - yours for 99 euros...



this is about $800 or something.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2009)

Crispy said:


> Anything, anything for iphone Civ!



I know! It'd be so cool...!


----------



## jæd (Jul 13, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I'm speculating, its just nearly an identical phone for nearly the identical price, 15 quid more on contract for the 16Gb version. I think they are going to try to milk this phone and its popularity as hard as they can.  Having just 3 models doesn't allow for more premium products which I reckon they could sell.  I am more than willing to admit that this might not be the case, but if I was Apple i'd get as many models out there as I could. Competitions is starting to warm up a bit.
> 
> I think that my phone just stopping working is the most likely thing, having never lost or had one stolen.  Thats if it goes wrong at all.  With Apple care I have to buy it before the existing warranty runs out, so in the next 5 days.  Benefit is that I don't have to deal with insurance if it goes wrong.
> 
> 18 month contracts for the fail.  I may well get the PAYG version next time.



I would expect some kind of Netbook, perhaps an Apple Touch Pro before the new Iphone in July 2010. More rumors : http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/07/13/apple.touch.netbook.oct/

I'm thinking the 2010 iPhone will have something like a better camera with flash, and most probably even faster network speeds. (If AT+T or whoever gets the phone can deploy fast enough)


----------



## Structaural (Jul 13, 2009)

sim667 said:


> this is about $800 or something.



yeesh


----------



## Sunray (Jul 13, 2009)

Just noticed that spotlight is in the iPod application.  Its at the top of the main album list and its also above shuffle, if you scroll down


----------



## kropotkin (Jul 15, 2009)

I got my 16gig 3gs yesterday.

first impressions:
It is s abeautiful piece of kit. The lines and weight are good, and it feels very solid.
The onscreen keyboard is very fiddly, but I'm sure that over time I will improve on it.
The battery is fairly poor- this could of course be because I keep playing with it, but still.. I took it off charge at ~730 this morning and it is now on 76% four hours later.
As long as with my sort of use it can make it to 11pm without turning off I will be satisfied with whatever the indicator says. If it can do that on the first day of use when usage is likely to be somewhere near the highest...


Thanks for your advice everyone


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 15, 2009)

One has to resist the temptation to sit there playing with it. No matter good it might feel.

I did get a kensington battery pack in the end for mine as I just can't stop fiddling. It seems to work well, gives a full recharge or thereabouts, but is a bit pricey.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2009)

You're right, it's very odd but the compulsion to muck about it with it is very very high! A good way to justify it though it to be browsing the App Store.


----------



## kropotkin (Jul 16, 2009)

OK, so my first day of full playing around, including jailbreaking and installing loads of apps from Cydia, reading a good amount of _Consider Phlebas_ on Stanza and finding my way to Victoria's _Mango tree_, and I finally put it on charge at 11pm with 18% charge left.
That means that it is likely to be largely fine for everyday use- but I can always take the USB cable in my bag to charge it from a computer.

Pretty bloody impressed so far, although I agree with editor on

+ calendar. Crap compared to datebk6 on the palm- amazed that that developer hasn't jumped on the case. Amazed also that apparently Apple have locked the device calendar so no developers can access it. How short-sighted.
+ Stanza was the most recommended reading app, but it isn't a patch on the palm's free _Plucker_ application, which has an autoscrolll feature so you can sit in bed and look at it rather than having to touch the screen every few seconds.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2009)

kropotkin said:


> Pretty bloody impressed so far, although I agree with editor on
> 
> + calendar. Crap compared to datebk6 on the palm- amazed that that developer hasn't jumped on the case. Amazed also that apparently Apple have locked the device calendar so no developers can access it. How short-sighted.


I don't understand why no one else seems to be capable of making a decent calendar app (preferably with with to-dos/notes). The one on the G1 is really, really dreadful. I wrote to the maker of the brilliantly simply TMP Palm prog nearly begging him to write a version for Android, but without luck, and it looks like the usually excellent Agendus is going to remain hopelessly crippled on the iPhone. The default Pre one doesn't look a whole lot better either, but it looks like Agendus will at least work properly on that platform (although it's annoying to keep on paying out for software to cover the real basics).


----------



## kropotkin (Jul 16, 2009)

I've installed an iphone one called Pocket Informant which seems actually good, just not as good as DB6 (which as far as I am concerned will remain the standard for calendar apps- it was incredibly versatile).


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2009)

kropotkin said:


> I've installed an iphone one called Pocket Informant which seems actually good, just not as good as DB6 (which as far as I am concerned will remain the standard for calendar apps- it was incredibly versatile).


I tried that on my WM phone a while ago. I found it awfully clunky, but I'm guessing it's somewhat slicker on the iPhone.


----------



## mack (Jul 16, 2009)

So the Iphone 3g is finally coming to other networks..

http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/Apple_to_break_iPhone_exclusivity.html

"Sources said O2 has been furious with the news and is concerned potential rivals will undercut its prices on the older model."  ho ho a bit of competition for them now, is this retaliation by Apple for o2 stocking the Pre exclusively?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2009)

Haha excellent news!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 16, 2009)

Not the 3GS though


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 17, 2009)

mack said:


> So the Iphone 3g is finally coming to other networks..
> 
> http://www.mobiletoday.co.uk/Apple_to_break_iPhone_exclusivity.html
> 
> "Sources said O2 has been furious with the news and is concerned potential rivals will undercut its prices on the older model."  ho ho a bit of competition for them now, is this retaliation by Apple for o2 stocking the Pre exclusively?



it's precisely what i said was happening ... the exclusivity deals run out this year for at&t and next year for o2...

and apple would be mad at that point after creating a niche to then not go to all networks which as i said they have the 2010 iphone waiting in the wings with an improved camera (with flash) and better (maybe hd) video for when this happens...

fuck all to do with pre stocking by o2 why would that cuase the exclusivity deals to end with at&T????


----------



## kropotkin (Jul 17, 2009)

I went for a run last night.
Had the iphone in the back pocket of my shorts playing a mix, and running RunKeeper. 
I am so impressed with that: a free program that GPS tracks you, works out your speed, altitude gain, calories etc and then plots the run on a map and uploads it to a website.

Incredible! Why would I buy a Nike+ thing


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Haha excellent news!


 
Hmm clever by Apple or not?

This could cut 3G S sales in the UK. 

They will have given customers a choice

The choice of a phone that does what they want on the network they want versus the choice of a phone that does everything they want a little faster / better but on a network they don't want.

Some people will chose the former when if they hadn't been given the choice they may have coughed up for the 3G S.

My contract runs out in December. Hopefully I'll have some more interesting and cheaper options thanks to a competative market.


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2009)

kropotkin said:


> I went for a run last night.
> Had the iphone in the back pocket of my shorts playing a mix, and running RunKeeper.
> I am so impressed with that: a free program that GPS tracks you, works out your speed, altitude gain, calories etc and then plots the run on a map and uploads it to a website.


It's as clever as fuck, but not so good if you're hoping to use the smartypants technology for a day's hiking/riding. 

There's a similar free app on the G1 and I thought I'd be using it all the time on my walks, until I saw that battery life heading downwards. GPS is a beast for batteries.

Great for short runs though.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 17, 2009)

There is a similar thing for Nokia which has been available for a couple of years. I used it for novelty value once or twice, but noticed it drained the battery and haven't touched it since.

If it was really clever it would choose the tunes your phone plays according to whether you were going faster or slower or uphill or downhill or whatever.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 17, 2009)

For £30 you can get a dedicated GPS logger which is much much smaller and lighter, has a battery that last for days and comes with free software for just this sort of thing (and for geo-tagging photos).

Trying to get all your devices in one just means compromising on most of them, sometimes dedicated devices are just better...


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> For £30 you can get a dedicated GPS logger which is much much smaller and lighter, has a battery that last for days and comes with free software for just this sort of thing (and for geo-tagging photos).
> 
> Trying to get all your devices in one just means compromising on most of them, sometimes dedicated devices are just better...


I quickly realised that a £5 compass was better than the one that came with my phone.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2009)

editor said:


> I quickly realised that a £5 compass was better than the one that came with my phone.


 
Yeah but with a phone you can go "Look my phone has a compass" instead of "Look a compass", "Yeah so what, i've seen a compass before, now if it was on a phone that would be a different story!".

Plus what if your cheap £5 compass runs out of battery power, its good to have a spare just in case.


----------



## jæd (Jul 17, 2009)

kropotkin said:


> I went for a run last night.
> Had the iphone in the back pocket of my shorts playing a mix, and running RunKeeper.
> I am so impressed with that: a free program that GPS tracks you, works out your speed, altitude gain, calories etc and then plots the run on a map and uploads it to a website.
> 
> Incredible! Why would I buy a Nike+ thing



Not sure... 

There's also things like Pedometer which will keep track of your steps, and thence your speed. Once you've used a treadmill to train / adjust settings it will probably last longer...


----------



## jæd (Jul 17, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Plus what if your cheap £5 compass runs out of battery power, its good to have a spare just in case.



What compasses are you using that require batteries...?


----------



## teuchter (Jul 17, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Yeah but with a phone you can go "Look my phone has a compass"



This is exactly what my workmate said to me the other day.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2009)

jæd said:


> What compasses are you using that require batteries...?


 
Its a Satire v3.4 Humometre.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 17, 2009)

I found the compass quite handy really. It helps answer the question "yeah okay I know what street I'm on, but am I actually going down it in the right direction?"


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 17, 2009)

kropotkin said:


> I went for a run last night.
> Had the iphone in the back pocket of my shorts playing a mix, and running RunKeeper.
> I am so impressed with that: a free program that GPS tracks you, works out your speed, altitude gain, calories etc and then plots the run on a map and uploads it to a website.
> 
> Incredible! Why would I buy a Nike+ thing



I used to do same for cycle rides using an app called GPSed on my Blackberry, but I don't bother now as it wastes battery.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I found the compass quite handy really. It helps answer the question "yeah okay I know what street I'm on, but am I actually going down it in the right direction?"



Yep, it's great for that. It's one of the reason's I went for the 3GS over the 3G...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Hmm clever by Apple or not?
> 
> This could cut 3G S sales in the UK.
> 
> ...



It'll will put pressure on O2. Imagine if T Mobile say 'fuck you O2 we're giving all our 3G owners free tethering'? That's just one small example but you can imagine O2 having pause for thought if something like that did happen...


----------



## teuchter (Jul 17, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I found the compass quite handy really. It helps answer the question "yeah okay I know what street I'm on, but am I actually going down it in the right direction?"



Yeah but if there is some kind of apocalypse and the power goes out, some of us will still be able to navigate by A-Z and the position of the sun and you will be staring blankly at your lifeless iPhone screen as the crazed zombies close in around you.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, it's great for that. It's one of the reason's I went for the 3GS over the 3G...


 
Pah whats wrong with walking in one direction for 5 minutes until the GPS dot moves and you realise that you've gone the wrong way?

If it ain't broke don't fix it.

But no it is good for the maps. As a stand alone compass though...


----------



## Kanda (Jul 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, it's great for that. It's one of the reason's I went for the 3GS over the 3G...


 
You rarely need a compass in London!

Look up... you can tell which direction you're facing by flightpaths


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I found the compass quite handy really. It helps answer the question "yeah okay I know what street I'm on, but am I actually going down it in the right direction?"


Depends on whether you're comfortable walking around streets with an expensive phone in your hands, I guess.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Depends on whether you're comfortable walking around streets with an expensive phone in your hands, I guess.


You're one to talk  I saw you tapping away on your G1 on coldharbour lane late at night the other day (you didn't hear me shout hello at you )


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2009)

Crispy said:


> You're one to talk  I saw you tapping away on your G1 on coldharbour lane late at night the other day (you didn't hear me shout hello at you )


It's not something I do by choice and if there was any alternative I'd be using it.  Besides, my G1 is cheap old tack compared to a new iPhone.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 17, 2009)

Bah! The youth of today... 

I work out which direction I'm going from seeing where the moss is growing, especially in London. 
And I never use the Weather app, I just check the pine cone and seaweed I always carry.

This is the only really useful app


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Depends on whether you're comfortable walking around streets with an expensive phone in your hands, I guess.


 
Its dead easy to phone O2 and get them to turn your phone into a brick, isn't it? Even if they put a new SIM into it.

So I'm not sure what sort of idiot would try to steal an iPhone knowing this.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 17, 2009)

There are however quite a lot of idiots in the "nicking phones" community. Actually the 3GS has that "find your phone" tracking thing too.


----------



## jæd (Jul 17, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There are however quite a lot of idiots in the "nicking phones" community. Actually the 3GS has that "find your phone" tracking thing too.



Also available with the 3G. I don't think I've ever been worried about my iPhone being knicked. They're so common now...!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Depends on whether you're comfortable walking around streets with an expensive phone in your hands, I guess.



I've got no problem with that. But being 6'3" helps I guess...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2009)

jæd said:


> Also available with the 3G. I don't think I've ever been worried about my iPhone being knicked. They're so common now...!



That's something I was thinking about on the tube this morning, literally every third person in the carriage was playing with one. Incredible really...and those that didn't were in the main mucking about with their Blackberry's. These weren't business people etc either they were every type of person from the mac owning designer types to 18 years olds with a Blackberry curve...


----------



## Pie 1 (Jul 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've got no problem with that....



Nor do most people in the real world, tbh.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> Nor do most people in the real world, tbh.



Let em try and take my iPhone.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There are however quite a lot of idiots in the "nicking phones" community. Actually the 3GS has that "find your phone" tracking thing too.



Only the once. After the first fence says to them fuck off a stolen iPhone is worthless to me I doubt they pinch another.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Besides, my G1 is cheap old tack compared to a new iPhone.



£87 on contract


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2009)

Kanda said:


> £87 on contract


IIRC, my G1 was £180 *contract free*.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 17, 2009)

editor said:


> IIRC, my G1 was £180 *contract free*.



But you pay monthly I guess? 

I know monthly it's (iPhone) £35 or so, but so are most contracts (of the people I know)


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2009)

Kanda said:


> But you pay monthly I guess?
> 
> I know monthly it's (iPhone) £35 or so, but so are most contracts (of the people I know)


I'm on a rolling monthly contract, paying £21 for unlimited texts, unlimited internet and some mahoossive amount of minutes (600mins a month or something similar that I'll never come close to using).

I can cancel my contract any time I like, so I'm free to switch networks or take advantage of any new bundled phone deal that takes my fancy.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 17, 2009)

editor said:


> I'm on a rolling monthly contract, paying £21 for unlimited texts, unlimited internet and some mahoossive amount of minutes (600mins a month or something similar that I'll never come close to using).
> 
> I can cancel my contract any time I like, so I'm free to switch networks or take advantage of any new bundled phone deal that takes my fancy.



Clued up user. Many just pay the £35 or so a month though.


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2009)

I wish I'd known about these rolling monthly deals before!


----------



## Gromit (Jul 17, 2009)

editor said:


> I'm on a rolling monthly contract, paying £21 for unlimited texts, unlimited internet and some mahoossive amount of minutes (600mins a month or something similar that I'll never come close to using).
> 
> I can cancel my contract any time I like, so I'm free to switch networks or take advantage of any new bundled phone deal that takes my fancy.



Fair play thats a decent deal.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 17, 2009)

Rolling monthly is cool. 

I don't mind a contract though where I don't have to pay for the handset. I use the phone a LOT for work mainly and have no charges, I get a free handset. Which works for me.

If I am roaming, the company pays the charges.


----------



## lozenge (Jul 17, 2009)

Is there an app that keeps track of how much you've spent on apps?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2009)

lozenge said:


> Is there an app that keeps track of how much you've spent on apps?



Yeah it called your bank statement.


----------



## Random One (Jul 17, 2009)

lozenge said:


> Is there an app that keeps track of how much you've spent on apps?



I get regular emails from itunes/apple about what i've spent on apps like mini statements.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 17, 2009)

If you open iTunes, go to the iTunes Store and then to your account details, there's a Purchase History button. It doesn't total them up though, presumably so as not to scare you.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2009)

Oh shit this buy tunes straight to your iPhone is bad news, just bought another album...


----------



## Random One (Jul 17, 2009)

I have purposely avoided opening itunes voften for exactly that reason... This 'everything at A push of a button' is dangerous i tells ya


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2009)

Random One said:


> I have purposely avoided opening itunes voften for exactly that reason... This 'everything at A push of a button' is dangerous i tells ya



It is man, it is.


----------



## Random One (Jul 17, 2009)

the Lyrical app is really good.... Also just found a completely useless but funny app, wait for it..... It is called 'peanut butter jelly time' oooooh yeah


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2009)

I tend to dislike all the silly apps but that peanut butter jelly time one cracked me up!


----------



## Random One (Jul 21, 2009)

I have just discovered the monkey swing game ... Genius!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2009)

Heh yeah it's great! Week four of owning my first iPhone and I must say I've never enjoyed a phone as much as this! It's excellent, very happy I've got one. Being able to surf, and have my music with me along with all those cool apps is just pure epic gadget goodness!


----------



## kropotkin (Jul 22, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh yeah it's great! Week four of owning my first iPhone and I must say I've never enjoyed a phone as much as this! It's excellent, very happy I've got one. Being able to surf, and have my music with me along with all those cool apps is just pure epic gadget goodness!




Me too- it really is great.
I have always-on IM+ sitting on twitter, Facebook and Skype so I'm contactable from the net, email works brilliantly, podcasts downloading over the air (only listening to From Our Own Correspondent as of yet- any recommendations?)- all seamlessly.

Very impressive piece of kit.


----------



## elbows (Jul 22, 2009)

Heard about the Foxconn employee who committed suicide over a missing prototype Apple phone?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8162325.stm



> A young Chinese worker suspected of stealing a prototype for the fourth generation iPhone has committed suicide.
> Sun Danyong worked for Foxconn, one of Apple's largest manufacturers.
> The Taiwanese firm has begun an investigation following claims made by the worker's former classmates that he had been beaten by security staff.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 22, 2009)

kropotkin said:


> Me too- it really is great.
> I have always-on IM+ sitting on twitter, Facebook and Skype so I'm contactable from the net, email works brilliantly, podcasts downloading over the air (only listening to From Our Own Correspondent as of yet- any recommendations?)- all seamlessly.
> 
> Very impressive piece of kit.



My laptop time has dropped significantly too. The iPhone really is a mini computer which allows me to quickly check communications without having to fire up the laptop, check news, check my RSS feeds, write comments on blogs or posts on urban75...tis cool.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 22, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> My laptop time has dropped significantly too. The iPhone really is a mini computer which allows me to quickly check communications without having to fire up the laptop, check news, check my RSS feeds, write comments on blogs or posts on urban75...tis cool.



[All stuff that many of us have been doing on other phones for the past two or three years]

But it's true though, a decent phone lets you do lots of stuff you'd otherwise need a laptop for, and isn't a pain to lug about with you. When I got my own computer for the first time a couple of years ago I decided to save some £ and get a desktop rather than a laptop for this reason.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 22, 2009)

teuchter said:


> [All stuff that many of us have been doing on other phones for the past two or three years]



Yeah, while picking at tiny buttons and swearing at crumby interfaces


----------



## Refused as fuck (Jul 22, 2009)

teuchter said:


> When I got my own computer for the first time a couple of years ago...


 

 teuchter and pals:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 22, 2009)

teuchter said:


> [All stuff that many of us have been doing on other phones for the past two or three years]
> 
> But it's true though, a decent phone lets you do lots of stuff you'd otherwise need a laptop for, and isn't a pain to lug about with you. When I got my own computer for the first time a couple of years ago I decided to save some £ and get a desktop rather than a laptop for this reason.



Not really the point, this does it better, in a more enjoyable way and with far less faffing about. Also, it's the most stable phone I've ever used.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2009)

This is a hoot. Watch the authors of mindless rival iPhone apps iFart and Pull My Finger slug it out over ownership of the idea.


> The two bodily-function-software purveyors go back and forth (”IFart ripped me off,” Stratton says. “They wanted somebody to blame,” Comm says.), but the must-see moment occurs around 3:20, when Mr. Stratton compares his struggle to that of Jackie Robinson.
> 
> Mr. Cenac: “So you’re comparing fart applications to a man pioneering civil rights?”
> 
> ...


Video here:
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2009/07/22/watching-an-iphone-feud-on-the-daily-show/


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 23, 2009)

They can also now argue with Pre fart guy too.

iPhone fart apps are now also being rivalled by fart apps for the Blackberry.

You know a platform has really arrived when you can make it fart....


----------



## Badgers (Jul 23, 2009)

Colleague just got his 3GS this week 
This is his third iPhone and is really singing it's praises compared to the previous one/ones he had. 
I am still digging my heels in and waiting till November but it is tricky, hope that there is a small (big?) price drop but doubt it with demand.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> They can also now argue with Pre fart guy too.
> 
> iPhone fart apps are now also being rivalled by fart apps for the Blackberry.
> 
> You know a platform has really arrived when you can make it fart....


It's pretty tragic stuff. Apple create a magnificently capable smartphone and the  second best selling app on their store was .....a fart app.

From that Pre link:





> Wait a minute here all you people complaining that there's now a fart app for the Pre... Don't you get it??? At last count the ALMIGHTY iPhone App Store has 6739 individual fart apps. Isn't it obvious to you that the fact the we too now have a fart app is merely an indication that WE HAVE ARRIVED? How could we claim any sort of parity with the iPhone without AT LEAST one fart app? I can't wait for the day when we have 6740 of them available. Then we'll truly be able to say: "Oh yeah? Well my Pre can out-fart your iPhone any day." Won't that be great? Right? Who's with me?


----------



## Kanda (Jul 23, 2009)

Monkey Island has been re-done for iPhone 

http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/200...-of-monkey-island-special-edition-for-iphone/


----------



## Crispy (Jul 23, 2009)

Fantastic 
I hope many more Lucasarts adventures will follow.

(although you can already run them all on a jailbroken iphone with SUMMVM)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 23, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Colleague just got his 3GS this week
> This is his third iPhone and is really singing it's praises compared to the previous one/ones he had.
> I am still digging my heels in and waiting till November but it is tricky, hope that there is a small (big?) price drop but doubt it with demand.



I doubt there will be a price drop tbh, although by that point you'll be in range of the Palm Pre release which gives you more options phone wise.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 23, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Monkey Island has been re-done for iPhone
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/200...-of-monkey-island-special-edition-for-iphone/


 
Oh god. I'm going to end up buying this aren't I! I've been resisting buying the PC version as I don't know if my lappy is good enough.

Sam and Max next?


----------



## editor (Jul 25, 2009)

You can now buy the 3GS unlocked for a positively eye watering £919 from here:
http://www.expansys.com/smartphone/apple-iphone?showall=1&se=s2516&partner=uknews

Does that make it the most expensive smartphone on the planet?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 25, 2009)

I might have mentioned these before, these are a great little invention for the iPhone 3G (and quite probably the GS), I'm onto my 3rd after I dropped my iPhone into the mud and scratched up the screen.  10 quid , two per box, nearly invisible.  Just have to be really careful cleaning and not touching the 'sticky' side, tho its held on by static or you'll fuck it up with finger prints.


----------



## editor (Jul 25, 2009)

You used to be able to get stick on 'grip-strips' for phones that did the same kind of thing. Well handy if youy've got a slippery phone and like to chat while having a pee!


----------



## Sunray (Jul 25, 2009)

editor said:


> You can now buy the 3GS unlocked for a positively eye watering £919 from here:
> http://www.expansys.com/smartphone/apple-iphone?showall=1&se=s2516&partner=uknews
> 
> Does that make it the most expensive smartphone on the planet?



Very probably, I can get a high performance desktop for that with a nice 22" screen.

I'd like to know how much O2 get charged per handset.  I bet its not 900 quid .

Perhaps Expansys are capitalising on Apple struggle to make enough of the phones at the moment.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 25, 2009)

I was just in the O2 shop in Hackney and everyone that was in there was buying iPhones.  I was waiting some time and in that time they sold four!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 25, 2009)

Google Latitude is very useful, I have enough friends now with iPhones (another one is due to get one after playing with mine  ) to make worth a look. Would've made finding some friends at an air show recently very useful!








> Google has done it again and launched a cool new iPhone web application to view the current location of your friends.  First launched on android phones, the app includes some of the same basic search and direction functionality as Google Maps and is loaded from their website rather then downloaded from the app store.  Apple wanted to avoid confusion with the "Maps Application" and suggested that Google release Latitude as just a web app. The location of you and your friends are updated continuously and uses cellular towers or Wifi triangulation instead of GPS. Before trying out Latitude be sure to have an unlimited data plan because this app uses sends/receives lots of data! To get started visit: http://www.google.com/latitude/intro.html
> 
> 
> On the flipside, if your a little miffed with one of your friends this is the perfect way to avoid a run in at the mall, restaurants, bars, clubs, etc  and avoid that akward moement.


And in other news, this augmented reality app looks very very cool!



> This new technology on the horizon summed up in one word is so freaking incredibly awesome!  Ok so that's four words but hopefully my point was taken. Augmented reality software overlays useful information onto the real world in real time. It takes full advantage of the new compass and other features packed in the iPhone 3GS and will be fully supported with OS v3.1. iPhone developers are thinking of ways to implement this technology into future apps but a concept of Augmented ID (video below) shows it in full action. The idea behind the software uses facial recognition to identify people and then display links to their online profiles such as facebook, twitter, contact information, etc. The latest rumors indicate the OS 3.1 software upgrade is scheduled for a September release date.


Roll on September!


----------



## Sunray (Jul 25, 2009)

Fairly quick for a .1 release with new code.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 25, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I might have mentioned these before, these are a great little invention for the iPhone 3G (and quite probably the GS), I'm onto my 3rd after I dropped my iPhone into the mud and scratched up the screen.  10 quid , two per box, nearly invisible.  Just have to be really careful cleaning and not touching the 'sticky' side, tho its held on by static or you'll fuck it up with finger prints.



They also do a combo pack, with a transparent case and two screen protectors thrown in. I have one - it's very unobtrusive.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 26, 2009)

I see that after all the talk about flash being missing, the HTC Hero has it and it brings the device to a standstill, which is what people were saying including Steve Jobs. 

Someone needs to take the step and install a fuel powered battery and a CPU to match.


----------



## grit (Jul 26, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I'd like to know how much O2 get charged per handset.  I bet its not 900 quid .



Huh? of course its not! They are a reseller who's objective is to make a profit. I'd imagine there is about a 200% or so markup on the handsets


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I see that after all the talk about flash being missing, the HTC Hero has it and it brings the device to a standstill, which is what people were saying including Steve Jobs.


That's only HTC's own version of Flash. Adobe's official  Flash support (for just about every smartphone but the iPhone) is due soon.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 26, 2009)

So are you telling me that its going to run perfectly well on a Pre and Android? I have my doubts.

That is based on a moderate understanding of what full Flash 10 can do these days, its pretty impressive and practically an OS in its own right.


----------



## editor (Jul 26, 2009)

Sunray said:


> So are you telling me that its going to run perfectly well on a Pre and Android? I have my doubts.


I didn't say it would run "perfectly," but I'd wager it'll be smoother than HTC's implementation seeing as Adobe have an awful lot riding on this - and they're  also one of the biggest software companies on the planet.

Flash used to run OK on my PalmOS Sony Clie years ago, so I'm assuming things have progressed since then.


----------



## hendo (Jul 27, 2009)

Derailing a bit but apparently Spotify is about to appear on iphones:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8169971.stm

But it will cost a tenner it seems, because Spotify are now keen to make some money.


----------



## MightyAphrodite (Jul 27, 2009)

hendo said:


> Derailing a bit but apparently Spotify is about to appear on iphones:
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8169971.stm
> 
> But it will cost a tenner it seems, because Spotify are now keen to make some money.



Thats not bad though is it?

iPhones can do just about anything!!


----------



## hendo (Jul 27, 2009)

Apple need to 'approve' the app now which obviously means a competitor to itunes will be available on their own device. But they might have to wave it through or face anti-trust actions. Interesting.


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2009)

hendo said:


> Apple need to 'approve' the app now which obviously means a competitor to itunes will be available on their own device. But they might have to wave it through or face anti-trust actions. Interesting.


They've got a version coming up for Android, but as you say, it's going to be mighty interesting to see what happens if Apple decides to block a competitor to their own product - especially as some believe it to be a superior product.


----------



## jæd (Jul 27, 2009)

hendo said:


> Apple need to 'approve' the app now which obviously means a competitor to itunes will be available on their own device. But they might have to wave it through or face anti-trust actions. Interesting.



Apple provide a streaming music service...?  (And I've been using Simplify since it was released...)


----------



## hendo (Jul 27, 2009)

jæd said:


> Apple provide a streaming music service...?  (And I've been using Simplify since it was released...)



Itunes doesn't stream to the iphone (or it doesn't stream to mine), but the thing is you'll be able to buy music from spotify. 
Competition time.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 27, 2009)

Can you buy music through Spotify? I can't see that, I thought it was only subscriptions.


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2009)

hendo said:


> Itunes doesn't stream to the iphone (or it doesn't stream to mine), but the thing is you'll be able to buy music from spotify.
> Competition time.









Interesting analysis here from someone who's already used Spotify on his iPhone. He loves it!



> Spotify is currently only available in Europe but the company plans to roll out in America by the end of the year. To do so, it must first sign deals with copyright holders, but founder Daniel Eks said he “feels very comfortable [about that], in that the labels want to see Spotify in the U.S.”
> 
> Other than the labels, the only roadblock between you and this iPhone app is Apple.
> 
> ...


So there's no "buy now" links, but I imagine the offline listening feature is going to piss off Apple in particular.



> Spotify’s success as an iPhone app hinges partially on a crucial feature: the ability to cache entire playlists for listening when you’re connected to AT&T’s slow Edge network (on which we encountered dropouts, as we have with other music streaming apps) — or for when there’s no connection at all. That means if your iPhone or iPod Touch has enough room, you can store up to 3,333 songs in Spotify playlists on the iPhone. That’s 10 days of listening, all without streaming a single song over an internet connection. Even better, playlists sync easily over Wi-Fi — no USB cable required.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 27, 2009)

Spotify is the 1st proper attempt by the music industry to win back people paying for music.  I for one think that its a bit pricey right now, but if they lowered it to 5 quid a month or 60 quid a year I'd buy it without a moments hesitation.

120 quid a year is pushing it.

I'd defo pay 10 quid for their application, but only if it can play over 3g because when ever I'm in able to listen and within wifi range I'm in front of proper PC. Wifi is too sporadic for it to be useful.

e2a: If the app is for premium users only, thats ARGG and clever.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 27, 2009)

hendo said:


> Derailing a bit but apparently Spotify is about to appear on iphones:
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8169971.stm
> 
> But it will cost a tenner it seems, because Spotify are now keen to make some money.



Great news! Although the price doesn't surprise me as they are in the shit money wise...

e2a: Video here: http://www.spotify.com/blog/archives/2009/07/27/spotify-for-iphone/


----------



## hendo (Jul 27, 2009)

God this really sounds fantastic doesn't it. I'd pay a one off fee, but I dunno about a monthly sub though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 27, 2009)

hendo said:


> God this really sounds fantastic doesn't it. I'd pay a one off fee, but I dunno about a monthly sub though.



It does sound very good. I've been thinking about this 10 quid a month thing. Looking back over the last year I've easily spent more than that a month on music (I don't mind paying for decent bands etc) so a tenner a month would actually save me money...


----------



## teuchter (Jul 27, 2009)

> Spotify’s success as an iPhone app hinges partially on a crucial feature: the ability to cache entire playlists for listening when you’re connected to AT&T’s slow Edge network (on which we encountered dropouts, as we have with other music streaming apps) — or for when there’s no connection at all. That means if your iPhone or iPod Touch has enough room, you can store up to 3,333 songs in Spotify playlists on the iPhone. That’s 10 days of listening, all without streaming a single song over an internet connection. Even better, playlists sync easily over Wi-Fi — no USB cable required.



So would they be cached in some way that you couldn't save them permanently or transfer them to another device?

Surely someone would work out a way round this and then you could just refresh your playlist every day for a month and you'd have about 10,000 albums for £10...


----------



## Sunray (Jul 27, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It does sound very good. I've been thinking about this 10 quid a month thing. Looking back over the last year I've easily spent more than that a month on music (I don't mind paying for decent bands etc) so a tenner a month would actually save me money...



Yeah but that means you have to spend constantly rather than have something in your hand you can play anywhere.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 27, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Yeah but that means you have to spend constantly rather than have something in your hand you can play anywhere.



But I already am spending constantly, and like I said this way I'd actually save money. My understanding is you can basically save the tunes on your ipod for offline play (see video I posted above)...


----------



## jæd (Jul 27, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> But I already am spending constantly, and like I said this way I'd actually save money. My understanding is you can basically save the tunes on your ipod for offline play (see video I posted above)...



And if Spotify fails...?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 27, 2009)

jæd said:


> And if Spotify fails...?



Thats why 5 quid a month is fine and 10 isn't.


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2009)

Yeah - I'd go a fiver a month, but a tenner's just too rich.


----------



## hendo (Jul 27, 2009)

What do people think of the lastfm app?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 27, 2009)

jæd said:


> And if Spotify fails...?



I'd use something else...*shrugs*


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

No Google Voice for iPhone users then - Apple have blocked it.


> Apple Is Growing Rotten To The Core: Official Google Voice App Blocked From App Store
> 
> Earlier today we learned that Apple had begun to pull all Google Voice-enabled applications from the App Store, citing the fact that they “duplicate features that come with the iPhone”. Now comes even worse news: we’ve learned that Apple has blocked Google’s official Google Voice application itself from the App Store. In other words, Google Voice — one of the best things to happen to telephony services in a very long time — will have no presence at all on the App Store. If there’s ever been a time to be furious with Apple, now is it.
> 
> ...


----------



## Badgers (Jul 28, 2009)

Hard choices? 
Google at home AND Apple on the move?


----------



## jæd (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> No Google Voice for iPhone users then - Apple have blocked it.



The word on the street is that AT+T are more worried about it. No big problem since there is a web interface any how. (Annoyingly I got an invite for Google Voice but its for US only at the moment  )


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

I installed Google Voice on my Android G1 phone and got an invite - but, as you say, it's not working in the UK yet. Bah!


----------



## grit (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> No Google Voice for iPhone users then - Apple have blocked it.



Its strange that people are surprised and think they have a right to be angry that apple decides to block app store submissions because they compete with apple's offerings. Apple designed and built the iphone they have every right to decide what makes it on to the platform and what doesnt.


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

grit said:


> Its strange that people are surprised and think they have a right to be angry that apple decides to block app store submissions because they compete with apple's offerings. Apple designed and built the iphone they have every right to decide what makes it on to the platform and what doesnt.


To be honest, I find it stranger that people like you are prepared to accept a corporate having total control over what you can and can not install on something you've_ bought and paid for. _

No other handset manufacturer insists on sole control over what apps are 'acceptable' and available for users to legally  install on their phones. If someone makes a better email app then Apple's built-in effort, consumers have every right to be annoyed that they're blocked from downloading it.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jul 28, 2009)

grit said:


> Its strange that people are surprised and think they have a right to be angry that apple decides to block app store submissions because they compete with apple's offerings. Apple designed and built the iphone they have every right to decide what makes it on to the platform and what doesnt.



How would you feel if you bought an Apple computer and wanted to install Adobe Lightroom but were only allowed to install Aperture? Or you wanted to use Office but were only allowed to use iWork?

Ridiculous notion, eh?


----------



## teuchter (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> To be honest, I find it stranger that people like you are prepared to accept a corporate having total control over what you can and can not install on something you've_ bought and paid for. _



Yeah, but they bought and paid for it in the knowledge that this is the way Apple are choosing to operate as far as this device is concerned.

It's a bit like people moaning on about Ryanair - if you don't like it, don't buy it! Quite simple really. It's not like owning an iPhone is crucial to anyone's existence.


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Yeah, but they bought and paid for it in the knowledge that this is the way Apple are choosing to operate as far as this device is concerned.
> 
> It's a bit like people moaning on about Ryanair - if you don't like it, don't buy it! Quite simple really. It's not like owning an iPhone is crucial to anyone's existence.


I don't think iPhone users could be reasonably expected to anticipate that as-yet-uninvented apps from someone as big as Google would be banned. 

Google Voice appears to be a real revolution* in mobile computing, and seeing as Apple promotes the phone as having an app for everything, I'd say iPhone users have every right to be miffed at being left out due to their control-freaky.

*I've not tried it myself, but Wired thought so.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 28, 2009)

I think if you've bought a 3g or 3gs though you probably had a fair idea that apps that could be useful to you could be blocked


----------



## teuchter (Jul 28, 2009)

In any case, it's largely Apple's control freakery that allows the smooth-running and stable OS that in the end is the only thing that distinguishes the iphone from its competitors, and the reason people like it in the first place, isn't it?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 28, 2009)

teuchter said:


> In any case, it's largely Apple's control freakery that allows the smooth-running and stable OS that in the end is the only thing that distinguishes the iphone from its competitors, and the reason people like it in the first place, isn't it?



That's being a bit disingenuous, its one thing to have "control freakery" to ensure that only good products that are tested reach your platform, its another to censor them because you don't like them.

However I think most people who bought an iphone were aware that would be the case, so have no grounds for complaint.


----------



## grit (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> To be honest, I find it stranger that people like you are prepared to accept a corporate having total control over what you can and can not install on something you've_ bought and paid for. _
> 
> No other handset manufacturer insists on sole control over what apps are 'acceptable' and available for users to legally install on their phones. If someone makes a better email app then Apple's built-in effort, consumers have every right to be annoyed that they're blocked from downloading it.



Thats because no other handset manufacturer has been in the same position before. I've developed J2ME applications for about the last 3 years and the application API's are so non standard and broken across a large section of phones that it was never a issue, no one wanted the responsiblity of the performance of the applications because the eco system was so shit. 

You'll see now with RIM and other people rushing to follow the same model, why?, because it works. Its important to understand that the high quality 3rd party applications that are being produced for the iphone are only possible BECAUSE the platform is so locked down, the developers know exactly what they are getting. A badly written (or in some cases offensive content) application wont give the developer shit, it will be apple on the front line so its understandable that they get the say so of what happens on their platform. On top of their highly lucrative brand being damaged because of some 15 year who cant code.

Also apple know damn well that if you are a real geek that you CAN jailbreak the phone and then run non standard stuff on it (as I do) but in the understanding that this is not the user experience that it was initially designed for. So if some dodgy amature code breaks it apple doesnt get the blame.

Edited to add: Its the same basic logic that applies to urban75. The owner of the site gets final say on what happens here, because its his site.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> To be honest, I find it stranger that people like you are prepared to accept a corporate having total control over what you can and can not install on something you've_ bought and paid for. _


 
Why?

In one respect users are used to not be able to get everything you want in one place. Products having exclusive this or that so you have to choose between two products based on which feature you really want most. 

Yeah you'd like both features but companies are protective of their Unique Selling Points and use it against each other.

Apple are a strong brand and want you to have the Apple experience whenever you use their products, become an Apple devotee and return to Apple in the future. Why would they support the Google experience when Google are trying to cut into their market with Android?


----------



## grit (Jul 28, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Why would they support the Google experience when Google are trying to cut into their market with Android?



The service providers take the same view, thats why personally I'd bet against android ever really make any serious inroads. Who would want to let/facilitate a market monster like google compete with them?

ETA: Where google would have a good chance is doing stuff like facilitating micro payment transactions over the phone. The operators would be happy to open their platform in that regard and take 20%-30% of the profits in a type of paypal model because they dont know how to build those sort of services themselves but are happy to make money from it. Its really interesting whats going on in the mobile space at the moment as its the new frontier so to speak and everyone is still trying to figure out how to make money in the new market (a similar situation to social networking)


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

grit said:


> Edited to add: Its the same basic logic that applies to urban75. The owner of the site gets final say on what happens here, because its his site.


That analogy is complete and utter nonsense. It you insist on trying to compare it with urban75, then you'd have work on people paying to access the bulletin boards and then mods banning their threads threads and topics because they competed with ones they'd personally started. 


Gromit said:


> Apple are a strong brand and want you to have the Apple experience whenever you use their products, become an Apple devotee and return to Apple in the future. Why would they support the Google experience when Google are trying to cut into their market with Android?


The iPhone comes with Google Maps and supports other Google services like YouTube and Latitude, does it not?



grit;9475522]The service providers take the same view said:


> overtake Windows Mobile.[/URL]
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Gromit (Jul 28, 2009)

It's interesting that once upon a time it was hardware that was the most important thing. Software was merely there to enable the hardware to do it's thing. 

We now live in a world where the phone isn't the most important thing (how it looks, how light it is etc.) but the things it does. The hardware is now just there to support the software features that people want. So we've turned from a hardware battle to a software battle and people are going to defend their battlegrounds. Open source isn't a benevolent idealistic gift to the world anymore but a weapon in the sales & marketing arsenal.


----------



## grit (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> That analogy is complete and utter nonsense. It you insist on trying to compare it with urban75, then you'd have work on people paying to access the bulletin boards and then mods banning their threads threads and topics because they competed with ones they'd personally started.
> T



I said the "same basic logic" its your site therefore its under your control. Granted if you want to leave that comparison aside thats fine.

"The iPhone comes with Google Maps and supports other Google services like YouTube and Latitude, does it not?"

Yes because apple dont compete with google in these areas.

Im not arguing that android handsets are not being produced and wont get to market just that I cant see it being a major success, i guess only time will tell on this. 

In summary what I was trying to communicate in post #3784 (which i find kinda interesting you didnt quote from but anyway) was that having the platform locked down is overall a good thing for the vast majority of  users, thats all.


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

grit said:


> In summary what I was trying to communicate in post #3784 (which i find kinda interesting you didnt quote from but anyway) was that having the platform locked down is overall a good thing for the vast majority of  users, thats all.


I'm struggling to think of any benefits that might have been accrued if my Palm Treo had been locked down . I installed a host of third party programs which directly 'competed' with Palm's own efforts (calendar, email, dialler, memos, to-dos etc etc) and all of those apps  significantly enhanced the usability of the handset, as I imagine Google Voice might do for the iPhone.

I can't think of any benefits to 'locking down' my  current G1 phone either, come to think of it.

Your u75 comparison remains as daft as Basil Brush on Big Bushy Bristle Day, btw.


----------



## grit (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> I'm struggling to think of any benefits that might have been accrued if my Palm Treo had been locked down . I installed a host of third party programs which directly 'competed' with Palm's own efforts (calendar, email, dialler, memos, to-dos etc etc) and all of those apps  significantly enhanced the usability of the handset, as I imagine Google Voice might do for the iPhone.
> 
> I can't think of any benefits to 'locking down' my  current G1 phone either, come to think of it.
> 
> Your u75 comparison remains as daft as Basil Brush on Big Bushy Bristle Day, btw.



As I said I'm happy to leave the urban75 comparison aside and admit that it might have been a poor choice to use. 

I'm happy that you have had such a positive experience with your treo in this regard, however in that setup the chance of you not having such a positive experience is increased by following that open model. 

Quality assurance testing is a vital part of producing good software not having that testing performed can have an negative impact on the user experience. Also the vast majority of less than technical consumers would blame palm if something bad happened because they sold/produced them the phone.


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

grit said:


> Quality assurance testing is a vital part of producing good software not having that testing performed can have an negative impact on the user experience. Also the vast majority of less than technical consumers would blame palm if something bad happened because they sold/produced them the phone.


So you're all for manufacturers having total control of what you can and can not install on your phone and you're a big fan of closed, proprietary systems because - in your opinion - such restrictive practices are the only way consumers can get a positive enough user experience, yes?


----------



## grit (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> So you're all for manufacturers having total control of what you can and can not install on your phone and you're a big fan of closed, proprietary systems because - in your opinion - such restrictive practices are the only way consumers can get a positive enough user experience, yes?



Pretty much after developing mobile applications in open systems such as J2ME which is industry wide standard. The fact we had to produce around 6-7 different versions of the application to work on a single generation of phones forced me to this way of thinking, before this I would have agreed with you.

In theory you are right 100% but the real world application just doesnt translate im afriad 

Edited to add: I think this is pretty much confined to the mobile device market as it currently stands. I dont share the same view when developing applications to run on x86 architecture.


----------



## jæd (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> I'm struggling to think of any benefits that might have been accrued if my Palm Treo had been locked down . I installed a host of third party programs which directly 'competed' with Palm's own efforts (calendar, email, dialler, memos, to-dos etc etc) and all of those apps  significantly enhanced the usability of the handset, as I imagine Google Voice might do for the iPhone.



There were also Apps that would produce random freezes and crashes and make _my_ Palm Treo not very stable. I remember it was the usual game of removing Apps to work out which one caused it...

While it is hard to say whether this was caused by the lack of a controlling hand at Palm, it will be interesting to see what happens with Palms App Store. Its an interesting provision in the SDK that their App Catalog must be used...



editor said:


> Your u75 comparison remains as daft as Basil Brush on Big Bushy Bristle Day, btw.



Seems quite clear to me. U75 is your website and you can do as you please with it. Even make it a Basil Brush Tribute site if you wish.


----------



## grit (Jul 28, 2009)

jaed: I wish someone without the tagline "knowitall cock" agreed with me 

Just kidding


----------



## jæd (Jul 28, 2009)

grit said:


> Edited to add: I think this is pretty much confined to the mobile device market as it currently stands. I dont share the same view when developing applications to run on x86 architecture.



The advantage with desktop Apps is that they a lot more resources at their disposal, and the User has time to diagnose problems. When you are out and about with a Mobile you don't have this...


----------



## grit (Jul 28, 2009)

jæd said:


> The advantage with desktop Apps is that they a lot more resources at their disposal, and the User has time to diagnose problems. When you are out and about with a Mobile you don't have this...



And the fact that the operating system thats hosting the application is far more mature that any mobile operating system out there at the moment


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

grit said:


> In theory you are right 100% but the real world application just doesnt translate im afriad


If that's the case, then how come other manufacturers aren't all running to instantly adopt Apple's monopolistic and  censorial approach to app distribution? 

Palm certainly haven't adopted it and they've just produced one of the hottest new phones and mobile operating systems of the year.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 28, 2009)

Dear god these apple are evil/no their not debates are fucking boring, do we really have to go over all this shit every fucking time a new app is rejected??!


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

jæd said:


> There were also Apps that would produce random freezes and crashes and make _my_ Palm Treo not very stable. I remember it was the usual game of removing Apps to work out which one caused it...


Then you uninstall them. Your phone, your choice. But that's not the argument here: Apple are refusing apps because they duplicate their own apps' functionality, are seen as threat to their business model or are rejected on moralistic grounds. Are you seriously arguing that's a _good thing?_



jæd said:


> Seems quite clear to me. U75 is your website and you can do as you please with it. Even make it a Basil Brush Tribute site if you wish.


You're not paying for it, nothing is being censored, it doesn't have people writing applications for it and it's not a multi billion $$$ corporate, so the comparison with Apple's policy on app distribution is spectacularly idiotic.


----------



## grit (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> If that's the case, then how come other manufacturers aren't all running to instantly adopt Apple's monopolistic and  censorial approach to app distribution?



I'd disagree with you there, research in motion,nokia and microsoft are the first ones to spring to mind. I'd imagine more will follow considering the massive gold rush the apple one triggered.


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Dear god these apple are evil/no their not debates are fucking boring, do we really have to go over all this shit every fucking time a new app is rejected??!


Why not just ignore the posts and let people get on with posting what they want instead of adding your pointless whining?


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

grit said:


> I'd disagree with you there, research in motion,nokia and microsoft are the first ones to spring to mind. I'd imagine more will follow considering the massive gold rush the apple one triggered.


None of them have set up a system where they have sole and total control of what apps are installed on their handsets.


----------



## grit (Jul 28, 2009)

Um i havnt developed for ms or nokia for a while but RIM had a vetting process for our applications

Edited to add: To be honest I'm feeling the same as the previous poster, I feel I've made my point and provided you with enough information on why I hold my view point. Its your decision not to be influenced it and thats fine. I just am getting the feeling you getting petty for arguments sake as we seem to be going in circles now.


----------



## jæd (Jul 28, 2009)

grit said:


> jaed: I wish someone without the tagline "knowitall cock" agreed with me
> 
> Just kidding



It was funny at the time...


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

grit said:


> Um i havnt developed for ms or nokia for a while but RIM had a vetting process for our applications
> 
> Edited to add: To be honest I'm feeling the same as the previous poster, I feel I've made my point and provided you with enough information on why I hold my view point. Its your decision not to be influenced it and thats fine. I just am getting the feeling you getting petty for arguments sake as we seem to be going in circles now.


Hardly. I've just asked you to support your claims, something you seem reluctant to do. 

FYI: You can purchase and download Blackberry apps from a host of third party sites, and are free to install products that directly rival the Blackberry's key apps. Blackberry do not solely control what goes on their handsets, nor they have the power to banish apps they don't like.

http://www.technobuzz.net/51-blackberry-apps/


----------



## jæd (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> Then you uninstall them. Your phone, your choice. But that's not the argument here: Apple are refusing apps because they duplicate their own apps' functionality, are seen as threat to their business model or are rejected on moralistic grounds. Are you seriously arguing that's a _good thing?_



Its Apple's App Store. If you don't like then don't use it either through a different device or by jailbreaking it. How hard is this...? 



editor said:


> You're not paying for it, nothing is being censored, it doesn't have people writing applications for it and it's not a multi billion $$$ corporate, so the comparison with Apple's policy on app distribution is spectacularly idiotic.



But if you wish to put up a tribute site to glove puppets its completely in your rights to do so. Just Apple can do whatever they want to with their App Store. Their business, their say-so.


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

jæd said:


> Its Apple's App Store. If you don't like then don't use it either through a different device or by jailbreaking it.


I asked if you thought it was a good thing or not.


jæd said:


> Just Apple can do whatever they want to with their App Store. Their business, their say-so.


It's your money though.


----------



## grit (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> Hardly. I've just asked you to support your claims, something you seem reluctant to do.
> 
> FYI: You can purchase and download Blackberry apps from a host of third party sites, and are free to install products that directly rival the Blackberry's key apps. Blackberry do not solely control what goes on their handsets, nor they have the power to banish apps they don't like.
> 
> http://www.technobuzz.net/51-blackberry-apps/



Sigh ok i must have been mistaken with RIM, I know some of our QA guys did something officall to have one of our applications branded an officall blackberry one or something like that. Doesnt really change the argument for the past two pages or whatever it is. So tell you what, your right, im wrong and even though apple sold 40 million handsets they have no idea what they are doing, happy now? your king of the castle once again.

http://xkcd.com/386/

eta: spelling and a few missing words


----------



## jæd (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> I asked if you thought it was a good thing or not.



"Is it a good thing...?" depends on one's point of view. I think its a good thing because it gives me a reliable phone to use, day-to-day. There's also other things I value, like a thriving eco-system of easy-to-use Apps.

Other people, however, might want to use a cutting edge phone with the latest innovative and Apps. These people would probably see Apple's control as a "bad thing".

Like all things it really depends on what you think are "good things".


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

jæd said:


> "Is it a good thing...?" depends on one's point of view. I think its a good thing because it gives me a reliable phone to use, day-to-day. There's also other things I value, like a thriving eco-system of easy-to-use Apps.
> 
> Other people, however, might want to use a cutting edge phone with the latest innovative and Apps. These people would probably see Apple's control as a "bad thing".
> 
> Like all things it really depends on what you think are "good things".


So_ you _think that Apple refusing apps because they duplicate their own apps' functionality, are seen as threat to their business model or are rejected on moralistic grounds is a good thing overall, yes?

Incidentally, Apple has now removed and/or rejected all Google Voice apps for the iPhone (and iPod touch) from the iTunes App Store, whether by Google themselves or by third party developers.
http://www.theiphoneblog.com/2009/07/28/apple-rejects-google-voice-apps/



> Long story short, Google will be forced to whip up some bootleg web app as it did with Latitude because Apple is, at times, ridiculous when it comes to App Store policies. But the story doesn’t end there. Apparently Google’s rejection prompted Apple to sift through the Store and remove third party Google Voice apps with little or no warning. The reasoning? They duplicate features already found on the iPhone such as the dialer and SMS. Apparently these apps didn’t duplicate the aforementioned features when they were first approved months ago… But they do now.
> 
> That makes perfect sense of course, and maintains the same position Apple has taken with the approval process from the start. It’s not like Apple would approve 300 browser apps that duplicate the features of Safari… Or approve a bunch of calculators that duplicate the features of the Calculator app… Or approve a thousand weather apps that duplicate the features of Apple’s Weather app… Or approve a bazillion to-do list apps that duplicate the features of Notes… And so on.
> 
> In the end, what we really want to know is this: since Apple is pulling GV Mobile, VoiceCentral and the like from the App Store — thus ceasing development and blocking support (why would a dev support an app he/she can no longer make money on?) — will Apple be refunding the purchase price of these apps to customers at its own expense? Yeah we doubt it, too. If you’ve purchased a Google Voice app and would like to request a refund at Apple’s expense however, we most definitely urge you to do so. Just don’t hold your breath for a response.



More: http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009...pp-clears-app-store-of-third-party-offerings/


----------



## Sunray (Jul 28, 2009)

I don't see the iPhone as a PDA in the traditional sense, having had it for a year now.   The iPhone nails what I want it to do so well the other apps are an irrelevance so I don't care whats on the App store. 

I was saying some time ago that the App store needs total revamp to make it useful.  50k applications it might have, but that such an overwhelming number of toss I keep having a look and giving up.   The top applications don't seem to change from month from month.


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## Kanda (Jul 28, 2009)

Beats having to run around Tucows and such like looking for apps.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 28, 2009)

This is pretty obviously not anything to do with Google competing with Apple. Apple don't actually have a voice application. The excuse used may have been "duplicates functionality" but that's just an excuse; there are plenty of function duplicates which are approved, some of which include Google-related apps.

For instance, calendars: there are an increasing number of calendar-related apps which sync with Google Calendar, quite often because Apple have made the foolish decision not to open up the iPhone's calendar to third party apps. These aren't getting banned even if they quite obviously duplicate existing functionality.

It's AT&T who don't want this. AT&T are a big fat old-school American rip-off telco and they can't countenance anything which might affect their big fat old-school rip-off prices. The issue is that Apple appear to be tied to a deal with AT&T not to allow things which might affect their profit margins. This is, one might well say, an unhealthy state of affairs, and it could also be said that they should be trying a bit harder to challenge this (I don't know the wording of their deal obviously so I don't know how practical that is). But rumour has it that Apple aren't that keen on AT&T either to be honest.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 28, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Beats having to run around Tucows and such like looking for apps.



I think its the fact that developers are guaranteed payment has helped a lot, which may explain why apple have done so well getting so many apps. 

The advantage for me of using a phone that doesn't use an app store is I can find what I want on torrents, but I accept that doesn't help software developers.


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## jæd (Jul 28, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> *It's AT&T who don't want this. AT&T are a big fat old-school American rip-off telco and they can't countenance anything which might affect their big fat old-school rip-off prices.* The issue is that Apple appear to be tied to a deal with AT&T not to allow things which might affect their profit margins. This is, one might well say, an unhealthy state of affairs, and it could also be said that they should be trying a bit harder to challenge this (I don't know the wording of their deal obviously so I don't know how practical that is). But rumour has it that Apple aren't that keen on AT&T either to be honest.



This bit. They've got enough clout to make Apple do what they want, and enough subscribers + networky stuff to make Apple want what they do.


----------



## jæd (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> So_ you _think that Apple refusing apps because they duplicate their own apps' functionality, are seen as threat to their business model or are rejected on moralistic grounds is a good thing overall, yes?



Thats a very subjective (and loaded) question. It would be nice if we could run whichever apps we could on our iPhones with no regard to network load, infringing on companies business models or any other limitation. However, to bring a nice shiny phone at affordable cost to our hands Apple has put some limits on it. 

The good thing is that because we live in (semi) capitalistic society we have a fairly good choice of phones because people have expectations and values-sets. People who want an open-phone like Android can buy one if they so wish.

However I suspect that since that there are always trade-offs, having the "freedom" to do something that Apple prohibts on its platform may have adverse effects on the user experience for others. Hopefully in the future this will be different.

You think Apple's limits are artifical and are _a bad thing_. This is something I don't think we will agree on, perhaps ever. Which is where I think I will leave it otherwise we will be here all night...


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

jæd said:


> Thats a very subjective (and loaded) question. It would be nice if we could run whichever apps we could on our iPhones with no regard to network load, infringing on companies business models or any other limitation. However, to bring a nice shiny phone at affordable cost to our hands Apple has put some limits on it.


What do you think of them banning apps on a moral basis or banning apps because they do the same things as their built in apps? Those issues have nothing to do with network load or Apple's business model, as far as I can see.

That's not to say that I don't think the App Store was a brilliant innovation, mind.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> Why not just ignore the posts and let people get on with posting what they want instead of adding your pointless whining?



So you think having exactly the same debate every time an app is rejected is useful then? I think you miss under the concept behind the term pointless...


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So you think having exactly the same debate every time an app is rejected is useful then? I think you miss under the concept behind the term pointless...


You don't think Apple rejecting Google Voice (and all related apps) is even worth mentioning or discussing here? 

Why ever not? It's a pretty revolutionary app.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 28, 2009)

editor said:


> You don't think Apple rejecting Google Voice (and all related apps) is even worth mentioning or discussing here?
> 
> Why ever not? It's a pretty revolutionary app.



I aint playing that game, the fact is it's tedious to have the same shitty debate every time an app is rejected. Apps are always going to be rejected, WE ALL KNOW THAT. No amount of bitching about it is going to do anything other than bore a very decent thread...

Seriously, why can't we just have another thread for arguing about each app that gets rejected? The topic has obviously got too big and important for it to be left lumped in with this thread...


----------



## Structaural (Jul 29, 2009)

My battery (now a year old) is getting pretty bad. Charged all night, got up at 8am, listened to iPod on way to work (no using screen, though I understand having EQ on uses more battery), had a 2 minute phone call and at 10:30 I'm on 55% battery. I'm now using push notifications on at least 2 apps, I wonder if that uses more battery.

What's my options on getting a replacement battery, do I have to pay, anyone know, it's just under a year old?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 29, 2009)

> Your one-year warranty includes replacement coverage for a defective battery. You can extend your coverage to two years from the date of your iPhone purchase with the AppleCare Protection Plan for iPhone. During the plan’s coverage period, Apple will replace the battery if it drops below 50% of its original capacity.


http://www.apple.com/batteries/replacements.html

If you're inside a year and are getting less than 50% of original capacity, Apple should replace it. 
There's probably an App around which gives more detailed capacity info for the battery.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 29, 2009)

I got the extension to the warranty for this very reason.


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2009)

Push notifications definitely punish the battery - I'd turn them off unless essential. As LL says, I'd get into an Apple store pronto and see if you can get it replaced while you're still in warranty otherwise it's a very pricey business at £ 55.00, plus £ 7.13 shipping. (and no phone for a week).

http://www.apple.com/uk/support/iphone/service/battery/


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 29, 2009)

I recently got an iPhone. I didn't want to like it, I can't stand Apple and their brand slaves, but I do have to concede that it's an exceptionally good piece of kit. 

Having used Blackberrys, Windows Mobile and, in the olden days, Palm devices, I can truly appreciate how superior the iPhone is. Not without faults, but the app store is a thing of beauty (though I have hacked mine).


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 29, 2009)

Structaural said:


> My battery (now a year old) is getting pretty bad. Charged all night, got up at 8am, listened to iPod on way to work (no using screen, though I understand having EQ on uses more battery), had a 2 minute phone call and at 10:30 I'm on 55% battery. I'm now using push notifications on at least 2 apps, I wonder if that uses more battery.
> 
> What's my options on getting a replacement battery, do I have to pay, anyone know, it's just under a year old?



Yeah, that's pretty bad. I was up at 7am, listening to tunes and playing Peggle on the train for 15 mins, and I've just looked to see my battery is at 96%.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 29, 2009)

Cheers guys, I think once it starts to go it goes pretty quick (I normally watch a TV episode on the way to work on full brightness and it's not usually this bad)
I've got Battery Go! that gives percentages for old phones (and how much of each activity you've got time for).

I'll go into an Applestore tomorrow... my insurance was through T-mobile though...


----------



## Structaural (Jul 29, 2009)

chuckle


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 29, 2009)

There's a blog-thing about reasons for iPhone App rejection - http://appreview.tumblr.com/


----------



## Sunray (Jul 29, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Cheers guys, I think once it starts to go it goes pretty quick (I normally watch a TV episode on the way to work on full brightness and it's not usually this bad)
> I've got Battery Go! that gives percentages for old phones (and how much of each activity you've got time for).
> 
> I'll go into an Applestore tomorrow... my insurance was through T-mobile though...



Yeah, Li-ion batteries seem to be like that, my work laptop was fine, full 4 hours use on it then one day, 5 minutes, then a few weeks later. Dead.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 29, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> There's a blog-thing about reasons for iPhone App rejection - http://appreview.tumblr.com/



All of those are very reasonable rejections and are there to ensure quality.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 29, 2009)

Structaural said:


> chuckle



heh


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 29, 2009)

Structaural said:


> chuckle


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2009)

jæd said:


> Its Apple's App Store. If you don't like then don't use it either through a different device or by jailbreaking it. How hard is this...?


Apple says you must not jailbreak your phone because you could be responsible for "'potentially catastrophic' cyberattacks by iPhone-wielding hackers at home and abroad."



> The Copyright Office is considering a request by the Electronic Frontier Foundation to legalize the widespread practice of jailbreaking, in which iPhone owners hack their devices to accept software that hasn’t been approved for distribution through the iPhone App Store. Apple made the claim in comments filed last week  with the agency.
> 
> The company’s filing explained that jailbreaking could allow hackers to altering the iPhone’s BBP — the “baseband processor” software, which enables a connection to cell phone towers.
> 
> ...



LOL.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/07/jailbreak/


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2009)

I trust it won't be the usual case of 'shoot the messenger' here, but when iPhone fanboy site #1 Gizmodo posts up editorials like this, maybe some will agree that it is a subject worth discussing here. After all, where Apple leads, some companies inevitably follow....

And here's another article from the excellent Lifehacker site:
http://lifehacker.com/5324724/bad-apple-an-argument-against-buying-an-iphone


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

Make your mind up which is #1 fanboy site. cheers  



editor said:


> So Apple have just approved a third-party email client for the App Store that violates its own policies!
> 
> From Apple fanboy #1 website Engadget:


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Make your mind up which is #1 fanboy site. cheers


Well it used to be Engadget, but after reading a load of recent user comments on that site, the consensus seems to be that Gizmodo has now stolen that crown.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 30, 2009)

It is pretty bad behaviour from Apple, but quite typical. Jobbie has always treated developers/partners badly, he's quite known for it, and laments it in that Gates/Jobs interview on Youtube. But he hasn't changed a bit. I don't like it, but it doesn't keep me up at night.

This poor bastard gets treated like some kow-towing serf by the Apple representative. The arrogance is quite astounding:
http://www.riverturn.com/blog/?p=455


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2009)

Structaural said:


> This poor bastard gets treated like some kow-towing serf by the Apple representative. The arrogance is quite astounding:
> http://www.riverturn.com/blog/?p=455





> Richard: “I’m calling to let you know that VoiceCentral has been removed from the App Store because it duplicates features of the iPhone.”
> 
> Me: “I don’t understand that reasoning. By that logic wouldn’t apps like Textfree, Skype, fring, or iCall be considered duplicates?”
> 
> ...


Fucking hell. Now that's what I call a frustrating phone call.


----------



## jæd (Jul 30, 2009)

Structaural said:


> It is pretty bad behaviour from Apple, but quite typical. Jobbie has always treated developers/partners badly, he's quite known for it, and laments it in that Gates/Jobs interview on Youtube. But he hasn't changed a bit. I don't like it, but it doesn't keep me up at night.
> 
> This poor bastard gets treated like some kow-towing serf by the Apple representative. The arrogance is quite astounding:
> http://www.riverturn.com/blog/?p=455






			
				Blogger Person said:
			
		

> First and foremost, the above is quoted just for grammatical presentation and none of it should be considered actual quotations. The conversation followed that basic path but included several other pleasantries and elements that I eliminated so it didn’t get any longer than it already was.



Are we still on this...? Any chance we could split this topic into three...? "iPhone News", "iPhone Users and Apps" and "People repeatably moaning on about the same old issues". Thanks... 

ETA: Has nothing else happened in the 24 hours...?


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2009)

jæd said:


> Are we still on this...? Any chance we could split this topic into three...? "iPhone News", "iPhone Users and Apps" and "People repeatably moaning on about the same old issues". Thanks...


Just about every single tech site and iPhone blog is currently discussing this issue and it is _entirely appropriate_ to discuss it in a thread titled, "Apple iPhone and related items" - whether you personally like it or not.

Google Voice is arguably the biggest app that Apple has rejected. If you don't find the topic interesting, skip the posts.



jæd said:


> ETA: Has nothing else happened in the 24 hours...?


No idea what you're on about here, sorry.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

editor said:


> No idea what you're on about here, sorry.


 
http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Te...Reveal_Potential_Hack_At_Las_Vegas_Conference_ ?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 30, 2009)

jæd said:


> Are we still on this...? Any chance we could split this topic into three...? "iPhone News", "iPhone Users and Apps" and "People repeatably moaning on about the same old issues". Thanks...
> 
> ETA: Has nothing else happened in the 24 hours...?



I think the app approval/rejection thing has got so big and heated it warrants it's own thread. It just gets in the way here and is really boring as fuck for everyone other than the Editor.


----------



## jæd (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/Te...Reveal_Potential_Hack_At_Las_Vegas_Conference_ ?



I'm surprised that one wasn't posted earlier.... 

But I was thinking about the news that two large companies have decided to _finally_ pair up, leading to the biggest shake-up to online marketing/advertising since the last big shake-up...


----------



## Mooncat (Jul 30, 2009)

editor said:


> Apple says you must not jailbreak your phone because you could be responsible for "'potentially catastrophic' cyberattacks by iPhone-wielding hackers at home and abroad."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



iFUD






Animuted here


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I think the app approval/rejection thing has got so big and heated it warrants it's own thread. It just gets in the way here and is really boring as fuck for everyone other than the Editor.


Discussing a "revolutionary" app that Apple has just rejected "gets in the way" of what, exactly? Isn't this a thread for iPhone news?

I see no reason for a separate thread.


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2009)

One area where the iPhone indubitably kicks the opposition into infinity and beyond is gaming. Here's the Guardian's top ten:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/gallery/2009/jul/30/games-iphone


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 30, 2009)

Yeah, the games are superb. Resident Evil 4 port is exceptional, Peggle is addictive as hell, Need for Speed is infinitely playable, Real Football is great, Zenonia is a top snes style jrpg. I don't the DS anymore.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

I just upgraded to a 32GB 3GS for £130. My contract wasn't even up till 24/12/09


----------



## Gromit (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I just upgraded to a 32GB 3GS for £130. My contract wasn't even up till 24/12/09



£130?

Was that to buy out of your existing contract?

When I enquired last month I think and it was quite a high buyout and I'd have to pay for a new handset as I wanted the low tariff. 

I could just about manage it by selling my two existing handsets to Mazuma mobile but thought nah I'll save my dosh and wait till December and my free upgrade.


----------



## grit (Jul 30, 2009)

Editor just really cant stand that some people enjoy their iphones.

Edited to add a smiley: here it is!


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

Gromit said:


> £130?
> 
> Was that to buy out of your existing contract?
> 
> ...


 
they just signed me up for another 18 months. It was upgrade cost, they gave me £166 for my old handset (that I had just fucked the headphone socket on)


----------



## Gromit (Jul 30, 2009)

grit said:


> Editor just really cant stand that some people enjoy their iphones.



Nah in fairness he likes iPhones. 

It's being told what he can and can't do with it that bugs him. 
Total freedom is indeed good. So I can see his point. 

I'm just not as prepared to throw my toys out the pram if I don't get it as I'm content enough with what It already does.


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2009)

grit said:


> Editor just really cant stand that some people enjoy their iphones.


Just because you got your arse hopelessly kicked earlier on when your lack of knowledge was woefully exposed, that's no excuse to try and stir things up again.

I've repeatedly said that it's the 'best smartphone currently available,'  has a build quality unequalled by any other phone, and only minutes ago said that it "kicks the opposition into infinity and beyond" when it comes to gaming.

It's a fantastic device but I think there are serious issues about Apple's monopolistic practices.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I just upgraded to a 32GB 3GS for £130. My contract wasn't even up till 24/12/09



Nice one!



grit said:


> Editor just really cant stand that some people enjoy their iphones.



I really wouldn't bother with that one. He refuses to do the decent thing and stop trolling this thread with his app rage so I reckon the best thing to do is not bother commenting on it.


----------



## jæd (Jul 30, 2009)

editor said:


> Just because you got your arse hopelessly kicked earlier on when your lack of knowledge was woefully exposed, that's no excuse to try and stir things up again.



Thats not what what it looked like from the cheap seats...


----------



## grit (Jul 30, 2009)

editor said:


> Just because you got your arse hopelessly kicked earlier on when your lack of knowledge was woefully exposed, that's no excuse to try and stir things up again.
> 
> I've repeatedly said that it's the 'best smartphone currently available,'  has a build quality unequalled by any other phone, and only minutes ago said that it "kicks the opposition into infinity and beyond" when it comes to gaming.
> 
> It's a fantastic device but I think there are serious issues about Apple's monopolistic practices.



Your totally right how dare I continue to post this thread  I wasnt attempting to "stir it up" prob should have thrown a smiley in at the end of my last post as that was how I meant it.

I was wrong about the lock down on the other application stores have no problem in admitting that point. I didnt think it invalidates the other points I raised from experience of developing mobile applications.

Fair enough that you have a serious problem with Apple's practices but thats your view and to be honest from a numbers point of view it seems people really are not that bothered. Christ I'm getting back into another pointless discussion with you I should stop now 

Edited to add: Troll != someone who disagree's with you. I backed up all my views with a mixture of personal and professional experience


----------



## jæd (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> they just signed me up for another 18 months. It was upgrade cost, they gave me £166 for my old handset (that I had just fucked the headphone socket on)



Was this on 02 or from Carphone Warehouse...?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 30, 2009)

I think Kanda has a contract that would make you do a double take at the monthly cost.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

Carphone Warehouse. I have the £44/month contract. 18 Months.


----------



## jæd (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Carphone Warehouse. I have the £44/month contract. 18 Months.



Hmmm... Will ask them about it next time I walk past... (I'm on £35...)


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I think Kanda has a contract that would make you do a double take at the monthly cost.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Carphone Warehouse. I have the £44/month contract. 18 Months.



Sorry, got confused its Badgers that has the 95pm contract I think.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

Don't think they do a 95pm contract.. http://shop.o2.co.uk/promo/iphoneindex


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

It really is a lot quicker and feels a lot smoother to play with. Happy boy


----------



## Sunray (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Don't think they do a 95pm contract.. http://shop.o2.co.uk/promo/iphoneindex



Not for the iPhone just a business contract, he posted up the details a while ago.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

Amazed at load times now. Tiger Woods loads and plays so much faster, I'm actually having to re-adjust my play.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Amazed at load times now. Tiger Woods loads and plays so much faster, I'm actually having to re-adjust my play.



It's a great phone isn't it?


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's a great phone isn't it?



Significantly faster than the previous 2 I have owned 

Battery better too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Significantly faster than the previous 2 I have owned
> 
> Battery better too.



I don't know how you did it, I couldn't get the other two, it just wasn't up to standard for me. It's not perfect but it's now finally good enough for me to own, and I'm loving it, excellent phone!


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't know how you did it, I couldn't get the other two, it just wasn't up to standard for me. It's not perfect but it's now finally good enough for me to own, and I'm loving it, excellent phone!



I felt it was still better for me than any other phone. My Macbook Pro has hardly got used since the original iPhone release, I used to carry it everywhere...

Although now it's at work and in my free time I am learning to develop iPhone apps


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I felt it was still better for me than any other phone. My Macbook Pro has hardly got used since the original iPhone release, I used to carry it everywhere...
> 
> Although now it's at work and in my free time I am learning to develop iPhone apps



I know what you mean, I use my laptop noticeably less since getting it.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

My only wish is for an Eve Online Client. Just docked is fine, so you can train, buy/sell etc


----------



## Sunray (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> My only wish is for an Eve Online Client. Just docked is fine, so you can train, buy/sell etc



Something to work towards for your 1st iPhone app.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 30, 2009)

Kanda said:


> My only wish is for an Eve Online Client. Just docked is fine, so you can train, buy/sell etc



Heh funny I was thinking I'd like an Xbox live one, where you could log in watch the vids etc they have and cue up demos, chat to gamer mates and stuff while you're out and about...


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 30, 2009)

Ermm ok....dunno if anyone has mentioned this lil problem before on here (apols if so) but.....my Home button has gone weird. Doesn't work 95% of the time 
Took it to O2 shop today and they questioned me about using it in the rain?!?  Anyway, it's been sent off but I'm hoping I don't get stung for some huge bill cos it's "my fault". Been reading online though that there is possibly a weakness there as quite a few ppl have same issue. 

Have got a loan phone. It's so shit I can't even begin to descibe it's total shitness


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 30, 2009)

The best thing is to go to an Apple Store from what I can see - O2 are gits, but at the Apple Store they just say "hm, okay, I'll try and fix it, if that doesn't work we'll just give you a new one".


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2009)

I think it's more prone to 'gunk'


----------



## Sunray (Jul 30, 2009)

I have mentioned that that button builds in obsolescence because it can wear out and if that doesn't work your screwed as there is no work around.  I thought it was odd to have a physical button to do this when a touch one would have been in keeping with the phone.


----------



## jæd (Jul 30, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> Ermm ok....dunno if anyone has mentioned this lil problem before on here (apols if so) but.....my Home button has gone weird. Doesn't work 95% of the time
> Took it to O2 shop today and they questioned me about using it in the rain?!?  Anyway, it's been sent off but I'm hoping I don't get stung for some huge bill cos it's "my fault". Been reading online though that there is possibly a weakness there as quite a few ppl have same issue.



Always go to the Apple Store for this sort of thing as they can swap it straight away...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 30, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't know how you did it, I couldn't get the other two, it just wasn't up to standard for me. It's not perfect but it's now finally good enough for me to own, and I'm loving it, excellent phone!



The 3G is perfectly adequate now 3.0 is out. Not viable before, however.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 30, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> The 3G is perfectly adequate now 3.0 is out. Not viable before, however.



I disagree it worked perfectly well, its was missing some features but the core functionality hasn't change from v2 to v3


----------



## Strumpet (Jul 30, 2009)

Oh bollox. So should've gone to Apple store? Altho there isn't one here. Hmmm maybe if they say can't fix but you can have a reconditioned for £130 I can ask for it back n take it to an Apple store?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 30, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I disagree it worked perfectly well, its was missing some features but the core functionality hasn't change from v2 to v3



Perhaps, if jailbroken.


----------



## grit (Jul 30, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> Perhaps, if jailbroken.



Why?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 31, 2009)

MMS, video recording, camera enhancements, improved texting.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 31, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> MMS, video recording, camera enhancements, improved texting.



These features were not enough of a reason not to get it.


----------



## grit (Jul 31, 2009)

Sunray said:


> These features were not enough of a reason not to get it.



I guess thats all down to the individual user, however I'd agree certainly their absence were not even close to deal breakers for me and obviously a huge amount of other people. Still horses for courses.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 31, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> The 3G is perfectly adequate now 3.0 is out. Not viable before, however.



It doesn't run fast enough which was a serious consideration...


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2009)

I think you can expect lots of japesters to start sending you text messages with just a plain square:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2009/jul/30/iphone-text-message-hacking-vulnerability
http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=26770

*resists temptation


----------



## grit (Jul 31, 2009)

dubbed the curse of silence similar exploits are available on windows mobile, android and nokia.

ETA: this cant by done by regular text messages.


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2009)

SMS's can also cause problems to people with Android (patch available) and HTC phones, as well... Its also a problem with SMS *control messages*, so I would guess you need to write some kind App to facilitate this.


----------



## editor (Jul 31, 2009)

grit said:


> dubbed the curse of silence similar exploits are available on windows mobile, android and nokia.


It was far less of a risk with Android and it's already been fixed: 





> In the more recent research, Android-based phones were found to be similarly susceptible to an SMS attack, only an attacker could temporarily knock the phone off the cell network but not take control, according to Mulliner, who's getting his PhD at the Technical University of Berlin. Google patched the hole last week within a day or two of being notified of the problem, he said.





> Previous iPhone attacks required an attacker to lure the iPhone user to visit a malicious Web site or open a malicious file, but this attack requires no effort on the part of the user and requires only that an attacker have the victim's phone number, Miller said.
> 
> Once inside a victim's phone, the attacker could then send an SMS to anyone in the victim's address book and spread the attack from phone to phone, he said.


http://news.cnet.com/8301-27080_3-10299378-245.html

Meanwhile: Can jailbroken iPhones really aid drug dealers?


> If you jailbreak your iPhone then you'll be part of the movement that Apple considers could bring down mobile networks as well as the "facilitation of drug dealers" reports Ars Technica. Rather than, you know, just letting you install anything you want to on your phone.
> 
> The report details the slightly wild accusation from Apple, which noted down its bizarre claims in a response to a proposed DMCA exemption for jailbreaking the iPhone. It says that drug dealers could be helped by the ability to make anonymous calls.


http://www.techradar.com/news/world...lly-aid-drug-dealers--621851?src=rss&attr=all


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 31, 2009)

Can't see Apple not releasing an update, and the chances of this happening aren't that high I reckon so not really bothered...


----------



## grit (Jul 31, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Can't see Apple not releasing an update, and the chances of this happening aren't that high I reckon so not really bothered...



Pretty much i suppose one of the good things about such an exploit is that the attacker needs your phone number obviously. Security by obscurity if you will


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 31, 2009)

grit said:


> Pretty much i suppose one of the good things about such an exploit is that the attacker needs your phone number obviously. Security by obscurity if you will



Yep.


----------



## jæd (Jul 31, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Can't see Apple not releasing an update, and the chances of this happening aren't that high I reckon so not really bothered...



That won't stop people jumping up and down demanding a patch _this instant_. Will probably be rolled into the 3.1 update.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 31, 2009)

jæd said:


> That won't stop people jumping up and down demanding a patch _this instant_. Will probably be rolled into the 3.1 update.



Indeed nor will it stop the usual anti Apple brigade from frothing at the mouth...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 31, 2009)

Tomorrow, apparently.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 31, 2009)

A bit early but the fixed firmware is actually available now through the usual iTunes update.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 1, 2009)

As I've been saying for sometime the iPhone is a serious competitor to Nintendo and Sony (hence their updates with the DSi and the coming PSP Go):



> Warning that its profits may decline, Wii and DS manufacturer Nintendo played the “current economic conditions” card but also laid a new one on the gaming table — increased competition thanks to Apple’s iPhone and iPod touch.
> 
> The newly launched Nintendo DSi is seen as a partial response to Apple’s new gaming model, according to Electronista, which includes an on-device digital App Store, rather than the cartridge based physical media traditional gaming companies have thus far preferred.
> 
> Still, if the next edition of Mario has an Apple or Steve Jobs looking boss level, we’ll know Nintendo is taking it seriously…


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2009)

It's getting a little bit interesting:


> Yeah, we're pretty much all peeved by Apple suddenly ejecting all traces of Google Voice from the app store, but now it looks to have drawn the ire of the Federal Communications Commission, as well. According to a report from _The Wall Street Journal_, the agency has sent out three letters, one each to Apple, AT&T, and Google. To the latter company, it asked for a description of the Google Voice app and whether previous Google apps have been approved for the store (it has, but that's another interesting story).
> 
> To Cupertino, it's asking the phone manufacturer to explain itself over the sudden exorcism and what involvement, if any, AT&T had in this decision. The report doesn't make a direct indication of what the letter to the carrier said, but we can imagine it's similar to what Apple got, plus some doodles at the end of a stick figure letting out an exasperated sigh. In a statement today, FCC Chairman Julius Genachowski said it "has a mission to foster a competitive wireless marketplace, protect and empower consumers, and promote innovation and investment." Hey Julius, while you're at it, can you see about Skype and Slingbox for us, too? Thanks.
> *Update:* _TechCrunch_ has published the three letters sent out, all very interesting reads. The FCC asks Apple specifically if any approved VoIP apps are allowed to be used over AT&T's 3G network, and more generally what are the "standards for considering and approving iPhone applications" and more details into the approval process. It also asks for the contact information of all developers of rejected Google Voice apps, presumably for further investigation.
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 1, 2009)

Bloody hell that security patch was nearly 300 megs!! Why in the world was it so big?


----------



## grit (Aug 1, 2009)

editor said:


> It's getting a little bit interesting:



It sure is! this has landmark case written all over it  Would decisions made by this american regulatory body have any impact on apple's behavior in Europe I wonder?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 1, 2009)

Here's a conspiracy theory for you: Apple and Google cooked up the whole event between them with the aim of having the FCC investigate AT&T's influence in banning apps and reduce by law the amount which it can influence them. Result for Apple (iPhones become a more attractive product, freer to make their own decisions) and result for Google (Voice becomes more widespread). Not a result for AT&T though (fewer people pay its rip-off charges).


----------



## jæd (Aug 1, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Bloody hell that security patch was nearly 300 megs!! Why in the world was it so big?



Firmware updates tend to be the whole thing, rather than deltas....


----------



## jæd (Aug 1, 2009)

editor said:


> It's getting a little bit interesting:



Cool. The FCC have found a new stick to whack AT&T with...


----------



## jæd (Aug 1, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Here's a conspiracy theory for you: Apple and Google cooked up the whole event between them with the aim of having the FCC investigate AT&T's influence in banning apps and reduce by law the amount which it can influence them. Result for Apple (iPhones become a more attractive product, freer to make their own decisions) and result for Google (Voice becomes more widespread). Not a result for AT&T though (fewer people pay its rip-off charges).



Makes sense. If AT&T get their wrists slapped then people like Verizon will too.   (And Verizon make AT&T look like happy-go-lucky guys.  Even more of a win for Google...


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Here's a conspiracy theory for you: Apple and Google cooked up the whole event between them with the aim of having the FCC investigate AT&T's influence in banning apps and reduce by law the amount which it can influence them. Result for Apple (iPhones become a more attractive product, freer to make their own decisions) and result for Google (Voice becomes more widespread). Not a result for AT&T though (fewer people pay its rip-off charges).


Things are certainly a little cosy at the top:



> Apple, Google Board Ties Under Scrutiny
> 
> The Federal Trade Commission in the United States has started an inquiry into the close ties between the boards of Apple and Google. They are wondering if the close ties constitute a violation of antitrust laws now that the two companies are increasingly participating in the same markets.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 1, 2009)

jæd said:


> Firmware updates tend to be the whole thing, rather than deltas....



Ah right that explains it...why do they have to do it wholesale like that?


----------



## jæd (Aug 2, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ah right that explains it...why do they have to do it wholesale like that?



Probably because its easier to keep track of what's changed. If you change individual Apps and sub-systems then there's a chance that someone might not download a bit. 

Much easier to download and replace the whole thing...


----------



## Sunray (Aug 2, 2009)

Its more likely because the firmware update is done primarily in hardware rather than software,  the OSX operating system isn't part of the process and to allow a failed flash update to be restarted to prevent people bricking the phone.  Flash can only be reprogrammed in fairly hefty blocks and with such a primitive system in place to update it, all or nothing becomes the only sensible option.


----------



## jæd (Aug 2, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Its more likely because the firmware update is done primarily in hardware rather than software,  the OSX operating system isn't part of the process and to allow a failed flash update to be restarted to prevent people bricking the phone.  Flash can only be reprogrammed in fairly hefty blocks and with such a primitive system in place to update it, all or nothing becomes the only sensible option.



This probably makes more sense...


----------



## editor (Aug 3, 2009)

Bish bosh! Eric Schmidt has resigned from Apple.





> Google CEO Eric Schmidt has resigned from Apple's board citing conflict of interest. Apple (Steve Jobs, in fact) says that "Unfortunately, as Google enters more of Apple's core businesses, with Android and now Chrome OS, Eric's effectiveness as an Apple board member will be significantly diminished, since he will have to recuse himself from even larger portions of our meetings due to potential conflicts of interest." Android and Chrome OS -- something had to give, but the timing sure does make it seem like that Google Voice app rejection might have really hurt someone's feelings.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/03/googles-eric-schmidt-resigns-from-apple-board-over-conflict-of/



As for the FCC furore, AT&T have apparently* responded by saying that "AT&T does not manage or approve applications for the App Store" which bats the ball right back into Apple's territory.

*unchecked FACT!


----------



## jæd (Aug 3, 2009)

editor said:


> As for the FCC furore, AT&T have apparently* responded by saying that "AT&T does not manage or approve applications for the App Store" which bats the ball right back into Apple's territory.
> 
> *unchecked FACT!



_Really...?!_ They're not exactly going to say anything different, are they....?


----------



## Sunray (Aug 3, 2009)

editor said:


> Bish bosh! Eric Schmidt has resigned from Apple.
> 
> As for the FCC furore, AT&T have apparently* responded by saying that "AT&T does not manage or approve applications for the App Store" which bats the ball right back into Apple's territory.
> 
> *unchecked FACT!



They could have a contract with Apple that states something very similar with regard to AT&T's bandwidth so the above situation is true, but not the whole truth.


----------



## editor (Aug 3, 2009)

jæd said:


> _Really...?!_ They're not exactly going to say anything different, are they....?


Either way, it's usually fun to watch big boy corporates slug it out and blame each other when the heat is on. 

As far as I see it, it's all good news for the  consumer if the Google Voice app wins through in the end.


----------



## grit (Aug 3, 2009)

I know this isint nearlly as topical or exciting as the current discussion regarding apple and google sharing board members.

However, has anyone actually produced a good solution to the problem of using maps offline?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 3, 2009)

grit said:


> However, has anyone actually produced a good solution to the problem of using maps offline?


Google restrict what you can do with their maps so the offline map apps I've seen use OpenStreetMaps.

Have a look in the App Store for "maps offline"

OffMaps looks to be better than oMaps


----------



## teuchter (Aug 3, 2009)

grit said:


> I know this isint nearlly as topical or exciting as the current discussion regarding apple and google sharing board members.
> 
> However, has anyone actually produced a good solution to the problem of using maps offline?



Buy a Nokia instead.


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2009)

Google/iPhone-gate looks set to run and run.


> The resignation of Google's Eric Schmidt as a director of Apple's board has failed to halt a government inquiry into possible antitrust violations.
> 
> Mr Schmidt stepped down because the search giant's business increasingly competes with Apple's.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kanda (Aug 4, 2009)

Why does everything have to have -gate on the end these days???


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 4, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Buy a Nokia instead.



And get the added bonus of being able to party like it's 1999.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 4, 2009)

editor said:


> Either way, it's usually fun to watch big boy corporates slug it out and blame each other when the heat is on.
> 
> As far as I see it, it's all good news for the  consumer if the Google Voice app wins through in the end.



Yep, it'd hopefully mean Apple would review their apps policy...



Kanda said:


> Why does everything have to have -gate on the end these days???



Yeah that annoys me too, fucking shitty journo's and Watergate...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 4, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah that annoys me too, fucking shitty journo's and Watergate...


If Watergate happened now, it'd be called Watergate-gate


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah that annoys me too, fucking shitty journo's and Watergate...


It's stroppy-gate!


----------



## Gromit (Aug 4, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> If Watergate happened now, it'd be called Watergate-gate


 
There'd be a scandal about calling it Watergate-gate which would be called... wait for it... nah I've taken it too far already.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 5, 2009)

My 3GS should arrive tomorrow 

It's in white due to lack of stock, but I use a case anyway, so won't notice it.

Anyone wanna buy a 3G?


----------



## Sunray (Aug 5, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> My 3GS should arrive tomorrow
> 
> It's in white due to lack of stock, but I *use a case* anyway, so won't notice it.
> 
> Anyone wanna buy a 3G?



The number of people I see using hideous cases is amazing.  Apple spent some cash making it look good, and you spent money making it look rubbish.

See my post above for a protective layer that doesn't spoil the clean lines.


----------



## spacemonkey (Aug 5, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> My 3GS should arrive tomorrow
> 
> It's in white due to lack of stock, but I use a case anyway, so won't notice it.
> 
> Anyone wanna buy a 3G?


 
How much?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 5, 2009)

Sunray said:


> The number of people I see using hideous cases is amazing.  Apple spent some cash making it look good, and you spent money making it look rubbish.
> 
> See my post above for a protective layer that doesn't spoil the clean lines.



LOL! What case do you use? Looking for one myself at the moment...


----------



## Leafster (Aug 5, 2009)

Sunray said:


> The number of people I see using hideous cases is amazing.  Apple spent some cash making it look good, and you spent money making it look rubbish.
> 
> See my post above for a protective layer that doesn't spoil the clean lines.


 A friend of mine has a shocking pink case for her iPhone.


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2009)

Apple rumoured to be launching a 3GS 8GB iPhone soon: http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/08/05/apple-launching-iphone-3gs-8gb-soon/

English language dictionary - yes a _dictionary_ - rejected because it contained words  that Apple didn't like. I kid you not.
Apple's new low: censoring a dictionary
http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/05/apples-new-low-censoring-a-dictionary/


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 5, 2009)

Sunray said:


> The number of people I see using hideous cases is amazing.  Apple spent some cash making it look good, and you spent money making it look rubbish.
> 
> See my post above for a protective layer that doesn't spoil the clean lines.



I have this one... it looks fine, my iphone is pristine and it feels nice in the hand.

http://www.johnlewis.com/230517339/Product.aspx?source=14798

Fuck what it looks like tbh, personally I think the iPhone is actually pretty ugly.


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2009)

I've never got on with any kind of protective case for my phones. I had one once and hated the extra bulk, so my phones have been 'naked' ever since.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! What case do you use? Looking for one myself at the moment...



I use the incase slider: http://www.goincase.com/products/detail/slider-case-cl59152 

It's the only case I've had for the iphone so I can't compare it. I've dropped it a fair few times and it's always been fine. Had the case a good few months and it still looks like new. Doesn't cover the screen, I've got a clear film thing for that, but it covers enough that unless you drop the screen bit directly onto something pointy it's not going to damage it. Doesn't look ugly either, imo.

I have it in black. Of course.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 5, 2009)

I don't really get the point of these phone case things.

Are they to keep your beloved phone all shiny and new? Who will ever appreciate it's shiny newness if it's always covered up with a silly case?

Or do you take it off and expose all for special occasions?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 5, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I don't really get the point of these phone case things.
> 
> Are they to keep your beloved phone all shiny and new? Who will ever appreciate it's shiny newness if it's always covered up with a silly case?
> 
> Or do you take it off and expose all for special occasions?



Resale value is considerably higher. Plus, my case is lovely and grippy. The iPhone isn't. I got given it, so probably wouldn't have got one otherwise, but I'd buy one of these again in a heartbeat. A couple of mate's who've seen mine has gone out and bought one as a result.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 5, 2009)

editor said:


> Apple rumoured to be launching a 3GS 8GB iPhone soon: http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/08/05/apple-launching-iphone-3gs-8gb-soon/
> 
> English language dictionary - yes a _dictionary_ - rejected because it contained words  that Apple didn't like. I kid you not.
> Apple's new low: censoring a dictionary
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/05/apples-new-low-censoring-a-dictionary/



Amazingly iPhone users the world over weren't stopped from simply going online and using one of the free dictionary sites...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 5, 2009)

Vintage Paw said:


> I use the incase slider: http://www.goincase.com/products/detail/slider-case-cl59152
> 
> It's the only case I've had for the iphone so I can't compare it. I've dropped it a fair few times and it's always been fine. Had the case a good few months and it still looks like new. Doesn't cover the screen, I've got a clear film thing for that, but it covers enough that unless you drop the screen bit directly onto something pointy it's not going to damage it. Doesn't look ugly either, imo.
> 
> I have it in black. Of course.



Ah cheers.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Amazingly iPhone users the world over weren't stopped from simply going online and using one of the free dictionary sites...



To be fair, that isn't really the point. Apple are being complete wankers over a lot of their AppStore decisions.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 5, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> To be fair, that isn't really the point. Apple are being complete wankers over a lot of their AppStore decisions.



My point was satirising the Ed's campaign to bore us with what we already know...I actually think it's a great thing Apple have done this.


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> My point was satirising the Ed's campaign to bore us with what we already know...I actually think it's a great thing Apple have done this.


I posted up two fresh Apple-related stories which I believed would be of general interest on a thread about... Apple related news. 

Seeing as dictionary story has sparked  a ton of discussion and debate on a host of Apple blogs and tech sites, I've no idea why you find it so boring, or why you saw fit to get narky. Again.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 5, 2009)

Its hard editor not to pin you with biased reporting on this thread when every negative article you find gets reposted by you on this thread. 

Rarely do you repost articles such as this beeb one:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8176753.stm


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 5, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Its hard editor not to pin you with biased reporting on this thread when every negative article you find gets reposted by you on this thread.
> 
> Rarely do you repost articles such as this beeb one:
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8176753.stm



The bigger point is it's soooo repetitive, there is NO ONE on this thread that isn't aware of what Apple is like, in fact it's oddly masochistic him banging on about this to a bunch of iPhone owners! Like we're really going to throw our phones in the bin in protest...


----------



## grit (Aug 5, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Its hard editor not to pin you with biased reporting on this thread when every negative article you find gets reposted by you on this thread.
> 
> Rarely do you repost articles such as this beeb one:
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8176753.stm



Thats the editor how dare you accusme of biased reporting which serves his own arguements. How dare you I say! (oh dear im driunk)

For he is the almighty and how dare you peasnt fool argue with the view of of our leader


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Its hard editor not to pin you with biased reporting on this thread when every negative article you find gets reposted by you on this thread.


I posted up two stories today. One was about a new 3GS 8GB iPhone and the other was about a dictionary (rather bizarrely) being banned. There's nothing remotely negative about the first story, and the second story has been reported far and wide on a wide range of websites. It's quite a big story on Apple websites too.

In the same thread, I have described the iPhone as being the best smartphone currently available in the UK and also the phone that has a build quality that others can't match.

So, all in all, I say I give very fair and unbiased coverage. I give praise where due and criticism where it's deserved. Perhaps you'd prefer it if this thread just gushed uncritical fanboy praise, but these are _discussion boards _and it's right that a broad range of opinions are expressed. If you want to defend Apple's policies, you go for it and let's have a debate.


grit said:


> Thats the editor how dare you accusme of biased reporting which serves his own arguements. How dare you I say! (oh dear im driunk)
> 
> For he is the almighty and how dare you peasnt fool argue with the view of of our leader


I'd like some of the drugs it sounds like you've just ingested, please.





Kid_Eternity said:


> The bigger point is it's soooo repetitive, there is NO ONE on this thread that isn't aware of what Apple is like, in fact it's oddly masochistic him banging on about this to a bunch of iPhone owners!


I didn't realise this thread was only for iPhone users. Why do you think so many Apple/iPhone websites/blogs have all covered the same "boring" story, btw? Why do you think it shouldn't even be mentioned here?


----------



## grit (Aug 6, 2009)

editor said:


> I'd like some of the drugs it sounds like you've just ingested, please.



Hehe  Nothing as exciting as that I'm afraid just 8 pints of beer. I'm amazed I was even able to login in the state that I was in!


----------



## Sunray (Aug 6, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! What case do you use? Looking for one myself at the moment...



http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=9462606&postcount=3740

Its a near invisible plastic film thats held on very firmly by static.  Need to clean the glass to a utterly dust free shine, then use the sticky thing to take off anything you can't see be careful not to touch the underside of the plastic when putting it on.  

Scratching the back doesn't bother me, scratching the glass would niggle badly. I've scratched it up badly a few times. Just taken the film off and put another on.  Looks like new.   More resistant to oily fingers.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 6, 2009)

Wouldn't that fuck with the 3GS screen though? It's a MUCH better screen than the 3G


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2009)

editor said:


> I posted up two stories today. One was about a new 3GS 8GB iPhone and the other was about a dictionary (rather bizarrely) being banned. There's nothing remotely negative about the first story, and the second story has been reported far and wide on a wide range of websites. It's quite a big story on Apple websites too.
> 
> In the same thread, I have described the iPhone as being the best smartphone currently available in the UK and also the phone that has a build quality that others can't match.
> 
> ...



It's not boring when mentioned elsewhere it is boring when it's you going on about the same issue again and again and again...


----------



## Sunray (Aug 6, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Wouldn't that fuck with the 3GS screen though? It's a MUCH better screen than the 3G



Much better screen?  I had a look at the 3GS in the Apple shop.  Its less suspect to greasy fingers but thats all.  Compared to the film its about the same.

Its held on by static so no would effect it and the 3GS is no more resistant to scratches than the 3G.  I like being able to peel off scratches and have done 3 times now.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's not boring when mentioned elsewhere it is boring when it's you going on about the same issue again and again and again...


Many websites - including Apple fanboy sites - deemed it an interesting topic worthy of some considerable discussion, so I've no idea why you always start bleating and whining whenever I post up such fresh, relevant news  here. 

It's really boring and disruptive though, so I wish you'd stop. What happens with the iPhone may well impact on other operating systems, so it's an important discussion, whether you  like it or not.


----------



## grit (Aug 6, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's not boring when mentioned elsewhere it is boring when it's you going on about the same issue again and again and again...



This... 

Twice I've just decided to remove myself from debates with you as its doesnt appear you have any interest in considering other points of view. I think this may be the feeling shared by Kid_Eternity.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2009)

grit said:


> This...
> 
> Twice I've just decided to remove myself from debates with you as its doesnt appear you have any interest in considering other points of view. I think this may be the feeling shared by Kid_Eternity.


Specifically which viewpoints am I failing to consider in this thread? I've heaped praise on the iPhone throughout this thread, but I see no reason why 'uncomfortable' related topics should be banished or shouted down.

Seeing as those very same topics are regularly discussed on tech sites all over the web - including iPhone sites -  why do you think this one should be any different? This is an iPhone news thread, is it not?


----------



## Kanda (Aug 6, 2009)

It's not really news anymore that Apple reject apps left right and center though is it??


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2009)

Kanda said:


> It's not really news anymore that Apple reject apps left right and center though is it??


Just about every iPhone-related website and a ton of tech websites seemed to think so.


----------



## grit (Aug 6, 2009)

editor said:


> Specifically which viewpoints am I failing to consider in this thread? I've heaped praise on the iPhone throughout this thread, but I see no reason why 'uncomfortable' related topics should be banished or shouted down.
> 
> Seeing as those very same topics are regularly discussed on tech sites all over the web - including iPhone sites -  why do you think this one should be any different? This is an iPhone news thread, is it not?



Primarily the benefits provided by Apple having control over the applications used on the device. However I dont want to get back into that discussion as we will just end up in circles again 

I think what some posters here have been referring to is this cycle of you raising the same points over and over and seeming not to take other peoples views into consideration and accepting that they may be valid. 

However your perfectly entitled to your views I think some people feel the issue has been throughly discussed and wish to look at things from different angles.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 6, 2009)

editor said:


> Just about every iPhone-related website and a ton of tech websites seemed to think so.


 
...and this isn't really one of those. If I wanted to go find out about Apples latest rejection, I'd go to one of those sites. All it does here is create *noise* in this thread, I think that's what previous posters have been complaining about.

Your site though, do as you want.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Your site though, do as you want.


That comment is a real low, cheap shot.  When it comes to open debate, it's as much your site too - so long as you play by the same rules that apply to everyone - including me. 

I'm not breaking the FAQ in any way at all, and you've never had a post unfairly censored, altered or deleted, so why make such a snidely comment?

Oh, and I'm not sure if this is "boring" too, but CoPilot satnav is now available in the UK for  iPhone 3G and 3GS for a one-off payment of £25.99 for UK/Ireland or £59.99 for European maps.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/news.phtml/26118/co-pilot-live-iphone-ipod-touch.phtml


----------



## Kanda (Aug 6, 2009)

editor said:


> That comment is a real low, cheap shot. When it comes to open debate, it's as much your site too - so long as you play by the same rules that apply to everyone - including me.


 
It wasn't really meant like that. Just I can't be arsed to argue continually about it is all. I'll just read the thread through the *noise*


----------



## Kanda (Aug 6, 2009)

editor said:


> Oh, and I'm not sure if this is "boring" too, but CoPilot satnav is now available in the UK for iPhone 3G and 3GS for a one-off payment of £25.99 for UK/Ireland or £59.99 for European maps.
> 
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/news.phtml/26118/co-pilot-live-iphone-ipod-touch.phtml


 
No, that's news.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2009)

Kanda said:


> It wasn't really meant like that. Just I can't be arsed to argue continually about it is all. I'll just read the thread through the *noise*


Isn't that what a bulletin board is all about? There's loads of fucking annoying posters but I generally just ignore their waffle and just go the bits of the thread that interest me.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 6, 2009)

editor said:


> That comment is a real low, cheap shot.  When it comes to open debate, it's as much your site too - so long as you play by the same rules that apply to everyone - including me.
> 
> I'm not breaking the FAQ in any way at all, and you've never had a post unfairly censored, altered or deleted, so why make such a snidely comment?
> 
> ...



I think everyone is waiting for the TomTom cradle to stick the phone to the window.

25 Quid is a very good price though


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 6, 2009)

I'm surprised its so cheap, the retail for tom tom on windows mobile is approaching the cost of a dedicated sat nav unit. Still you do get to run it on a higher res screen.


----------



## spitfire (Aug 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I think everyone is waiting for the TomTom cradle to stick the phone to the window.
> 
> 25 Quid is a very good price though



Any idea on when that's expected? Do you think it will be for the 3GS only?


----------



## Kanda (Aug 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I think everyone is waiting for the TomTom cradle to stick the phone to the window.
> 
> 25 Quid is a very good price though


 
http://www.handtec.co.uk/product.php/2126/tomtom-for-iphone-inc-mount

£113


----------



## spitfire (Aug 6, 2009)

Cheers. : )


----------



## Kanda (Aug 6, 2009)

spitfire said:


> Any idea on when that's expected? Do you think it will be for the 3GS only?


 
3G http://iphone.tomtom.com/


----------



## spitfire (Aug 6, 2009)

Double cheers : )


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 6, 2009)

Kanda said:


> 3G http://iphone.tomtom.com/



You could buy a sat nav for less that! Unless they've changed it for iphone, the software is the same.

Edit: You can get for windows for less the half the price, but doesn't come with the cradle, although I got mine very cheaply on ebay. Mind you windows users can choose to torrent it, so maybe they keep it cheaper to encourage people to buy the original.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 6, 2009)

That Co-Pilot deal looks very nice for £25.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 6, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> You could buy a sat nav for less that! Unless they've changed it for iphone, the software is the same.


 
It also provides hands free calling, a dock and charging.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 6, 2009)

Well you get a charger and holder with a dedicate unit. Don't most people have a bluetooth headset, if they drive?


----------



## Gromit (Aug 6, 2009)

editor said:


> I posted up two stories today. One was about a new 3GS 8GB iPhone and the other was about a dictionary (rather bizarrely) being banned. There's nothing remotely negative about the first story,
> 
> So, all in all, I say I give very fair and unbiased coverage. I give praise where due and criticism where it's deserved. Perhaps you'd prefer it if this thread just gushed uncritical fanboy praise, but these are _discussion boards _and it's right that a broad range of opinions are expressed.
> 
> If you want to defend Apple's policies, you go for it and let's have a debate.


 
True I'd forgotten the the first. Also I've forgotten that the media themselves always prefer to report negative articles as they get more attention and so there is more of them out there for you to repost in the first instance.

I withdraw my comment.

I'd don't want a fanboy thread. I enjoy the debate.

I can't defend the policies either tbh so am not going to try.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2009)

Gromit said:


> True I'd forgotten the the first. Also I've forgotten that the media themselves always prefer to report negative articles as they get more attention and so there is more of them out there for you to repost in the first instance.
> 
> I withdraw my comment.


Cheers. It wouldn't be much of a thread if I just kept posting up: "yeah, the iPhone is a great handset," because that's pretty much recognised by everyone, so I post up any related news that comes up.

Like this snippet: the ugliest 'Touchstone'-style charger ever!






> By far the slickest, most mystical way to charge a smartphone these days comes courtesy of Palm's Touchstone system -- but that doesn't do iPhone owners much good, which is where WildCharge steps up to the plate with a jacket that makes all iPhone models compatible with its wire-free charging mat.
> 
> It's not as elegant by any stretch of the imagination, but if you squint a little, the jacket (or "adapter skin," as WildCharge calls it) looks like a totally believable case that you might buy in your local Apple store, especially if you can get past the hump at the bottom. _iPhone Buzz_ took the $79.99 pad / jacket combo for a spin recently, and while they've yet to post impressions, the shots of the system doing its thing in its natural habitat might be enough to turn folks on or off.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2009)

So posting something you've posted before and making the SAME point over and over again (albeit with newer info) is 'debate'. Jesus...


----------



## Sunray (Aug 6, 2009)

Kanda said:


> http://www.handtec.co.uk/product.php/2126/tomtom-for-iphone-inc-mount
> 
> £113



Thats way too expensive.  

I can buy dedicated SatNav for that, I'm still not 100% convinced at the GPS lock for iPhones that great so would get a dedicated version if I was going to spend 113 quid on one.

25 quid on the other hand is a good price.  Might get that for casual use.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Thats way too expensive.
> 
> I can buy dedicated SatNav for that, I'm still not 100% convinced at the GPS lock for iPhones that great so would get a dedicated version if I was going to spend 113 quid on one.
> 
> 25 quid on the other hand is a good price.  Might get that for casual use.



Hmmm it's not out yet so not 100% convinced on that price point.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 6, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Hmmm it's not out yet so not 100% convinced on that price point.



Yeah.  It'd not make a great deal of sense to make it more expensive than a trad SatNav.  Its not like they would be undercutting even their own SatNav, given the cost of the phone.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Thats way too expensive.
> 
> I can buy dedicated SatNav for that, I'm still not 100% convinced at the GPS lock for iPhones that great so would get a dedicated version if I was going to spend 113 quid on one.



Can't you download the sats location, so it locks on faster. My phone gets a faster lock then either of my two dedicated units.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2009)

Sales of dedicated satnavs have been plummeting for ages so companies like Tom Tom are going to be increasingly focusing their energies on providing software to phones (although there'll always be a market for larger screened sat nav units).


----------



## Gromit (Aug 6, 2009)

The lock is pretty accurate. The problem is though that sometime you can be waiting ages for a lock or get no lock at all. Plus the fact the iPhone doesn't have any saved maps so in rural areas you can have a lock but the blue dot is on a grey mapless backgound (no Internet to load the map). 

If you really need GPS for driving I'd say buy a proper one.

Thinking about, not just rural areas. I couldn't get Internet at Victiria park in London. Then when we left the concert we still didn't have Internet for ages due to network overload / interference. Everyone on their phones after the gig.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 6, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Can't you download the sats location, so it locks on faster. My phone gets a faster lock then either of my two dedicated units.



The speed of lock has got better since v1 of the software, which was pretty terrible most of the time.  v3 is fairly snappy but it can be pretty terrible at times.  This is mainly down to it being AGPS and therefore needing a data connection.  It can use data fragments from the satellites and the cell phone mast locations to garner actual location.  Getting a working connection isn't that guaranteed and can often can take an age, in these moments it essentially goes dead.  

Dedicated GPS units take longer to lock but keep the lock better because they aren't relying on a data connection.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 6, 2009)

AND OF COURSE PAID-FOR gps SOFTWARE _WILL_ HAVE MAPS, SO THE DATA CONNECTION IS NOT NEEDED.

Sodding capslock


----------



## Sunray (Aug 6, 2009)

Its not that important.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2009)

Crispy said:


> AND OF COURSE PAID-FOR gps SOFTWARE _WILL_ HAVE MAPS, SO THE DATA CONNECTION IS NOT NEEDED.
> 
> Sodding capslock


Love the way you couldn't be arsed to fix it


----------



## grit (Aug 6, 2009)

Im been trying to decide which way to go, to be honest I'm leaning towards a dedicated sat nav unit. GPS on the 3g has been great for navigating by foot around London however I'm skeptical about its performance driving around.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 6, 2009)

Kanda said:


> 3G http://iphone.tomtom.com/



there's a number of alternatives

navigon europe is £20 off til the end of august..... ive just bought it

navmii, sygnic and igo all have iphone turn by turn programs out too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Yeah.  It'd not make a great deal of sense to make it more expensive than a trad SatNav.  Its not like they would be undercutting even their own SatNav, given the cost of the phone.



Yeah...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> The speed of lock has got better since v1 of the software, which was pretty terrible most of the time.  v3 is fairly snappy but it can be pretty terrible at times.  This is mainly down to it being AGPS and therefore needing a data connection.  It can use data fragments from the satellites and the cell phone mast locations to garner actual location.  Getting a working connection isn't that guaranteed and can often can take an age, in these moments it essentially goes dead.
> 
> Dedicated GPS units take longer to lock but keep the lock better because they aren't relying on a data connection.




I'd assumed it had a proper GPS in it. I can run mine without AGPS, it just takes longer to lock. 

Does that mean we will see no hill walking map software for the iphone?


----------



## Kanda (Aug 6, 2009)

Apple Researching Methods to Detect 'Consumer Abuse' in Portable Devices...



> New Scientist points out an Apple patent application published today by the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office that discloses techniques for digitally "detecting whether consumer abuse has occurred in an electronic device." The application cites as examples assessing exposure to liquids, extreme temperatures, or excessive shock, as well as unauthorized tampering, all conditions which could cause damage to the device that may not be covered by manufacturers' warranties.
> In general, such warranty and return policies are intended only to cover failures and defects relating to the manufacture or design of the product, and typically do not cover product failure that occurs as the result of consumer abuse. In fact, many warranty policies explicitly exclude returns or repair when damage from consumer abuse, whether intentional or unintentional, is the underlying cause of the product failure. For example, consumer abuse may include exposing an electronic device to liquids, extreme temperatures, or excessive shock (e.g., the resulting impact from dropping the device). Consumer abuse may also result from tampering which may include any interaction with the device that is not related to operating the device in a normal manner (e.g., opening the casing or housing of a device and adding, removing, or altering the internal components).
> 
> Records of "abuse events" would be stored in the device's memory and be accessible through a diagnostic interface, allowing service technicians to more easily assess whether a given issue should be covered by the product warranty. The patent application also suggests that the device could turn off individual components or the entire device in response to an abuse event in order to reduce the potential for damage to the device.
> ...



From Macrumours.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 6, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> I'd assumed it had a proper GPS in it. I can run mine without AGPS, it just takes longer to lock.
> 
> Does that mean we will see no hill walking map software for the iphone?



I can't see how you run it without AGPS? Switching to Airplane mode essentially switches of GPS as far as I can tell?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I can't see how you run it without AGPS? Switching to Airplane mode essentially switches of GPS as far as I can tell?



Airplane mode on mine leaves it running, maybe the iphone is different?

I tend to turn of the phone, when I'm heading into the hills so I don't use the battery searching for a signal that isn't there. QuickGPS downloads the data for 7 days, so it locks quickly until that expires.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2009)

Review of the UK Navigon satnav app:
http://www.techradar.com/news/portable-devices/satnav/a-week-with-the-iphone-as-a-sat-nav-623238


----------



## Sunray (Aug 6, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Airplane mode on mine leaves it running, maybe the iphone is different?
> 
> I tend to turn of the phone, when I'm heading into the hills so I don't use the battery searching for a signal that isn't there. QuickGPS downloads the data for 7 days, so it locks quickly until that expires.



You got a GS?


----------



## grit (Aug 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I can't see how you run it without AGPS? Switching to Airplane mode essentially switches of GPS as far as I can tell?



Yup my 3G has gps disabled when in airplane mode


----------



## teuchter (Aug 6, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I can't see how you run it without AGPS? Switching to Airplane mode essentially switches of GPS as far as I can tell?



I thought AGPS was just a means of getting the initial lock more quickly, because it can work out roughly where it is and use this information to find the right satellites more quickly, or something like that.

That's how it worked on my Nokia N95 - if I ran the maps application offline, it would still work but would take rather longer to lock on.


----------



## paolo (Aug 7, 2009)

O2 Gitsacks.

I've just enabled tethering, to tide me over whilst I'm getting broadband sorted in my new place.

Now, I always suspected JPEGs were getting recompressed before arriving at the phone. It's technique that things like Opera Mini use, to speed things up.

But the fucker is, this still applies when tethered. Photos are all artefacted to fuck. And they're stripping the EXIF data too. So anyone out there who's putting useful stuff in there - authorship text to reinforce copyright, for example - will have it stripped by O2. (AT&T don't do this, I've now learnt).

Some photographers use this to 'persist' their intellectual property rights. I've pulled stuff down to resuse (authorised), over a normal connection, imported into Picasa, and bang - up comes the photographer's information. But, do that via tethering, and it won't happen.

If an ISP does tricks on files that are going to a closed dead end, then fiddling with them is relatively innocuous - but I'm not so happy with the idea of an ISP tampering with internet content in transit, content that's not fucking theirs, when it's being delivered in a reusable form.

Whilst this is clearly just incredibly poorly considered implementation, rather than any conspiracy, it's pissed me right off.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 7, 2009)

How much extra do they charge you to allow tethering?


----------



## paolo (Aug 7, 2009)

£15 for 3Gb in a month.

About the same as I was paying with Three Mobile for dongle use. (Can't connect to Three at the new flat.)


----------



## teuchter (Aug 7, 2009)

Oh. I was going to suggest getting a Three dongle instead.


----------



## paolo (Aug 7, 2009)

(and now I've tanked the tether. Followed someone's tip to get round the O2 proxy, and it's borked the tethering. Gonna have to wait til customer service opens in the morning to get that fixed.)


----------



## paolo (Aug 7, 2009)

One last try with the dongle.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 7, 2009)

Fun times.

Put the dongle on the end of a 2m usb cable and hang it out the window or something...


----------



## paolo (Aug 8, 2009)

I'm in the generously appointed study area of my stylish industrial conversion live/work space (winner of the Evening Standard 'lifestyle awards', no less )... Where the 'work' bit is lower ground, and even with my 2m USB extension cable, the dongle doesn't even get to ground floor.

I'm in a connectivity conundrum. The neighbour's WiFi is wide open, and I have a laptop with WiFi but haven't unearthed the power adaptor. The desktop doesn't have WiFi, but I have a USB WiFi thing, but the CD-ROM drive is borked, so I can't install the software from the CD. The laptop has a working CD-ROM drive. Both machines can access mini-SD cards, and I can also move my USB drive between the two. The flat has CAT5 throughout, and - theoretically - there's a hub in cupboard somewhere. That lot should enable me to get WiFi going on the desktop, but gah...

Still, the tethering has now de-borked, and I'm back.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 8, 2009)

Just use next doors till they notice.

Oops sorry, unearthed, I read earthed.


----------



## paolo (Aug 8, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Just use next doors till they notice.



No WiFi on the main PC though. And the selfish gits keep turning it off.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 8, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> No WiFi on the main PC though. And the selfish gits keep turning it off.



Well, thats just totally inconsiderate.


----------



## paolo (Aug 8, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Well, thats just totally inconsiderate.



Well, I thought so.
How mean.
Each to their own though.
Rights of bandwidth and all that.
Everytime I think about connecting, off it goes.
Selfish!

Maybe in a week I'll have the broadband.
You never really know with these the things.

Can't wait, been a year now.
Am almost used to crappy mobile.
Bytes travelling at the speed of bits.
Less is more?
Eventual more like.

*taps fingers, awaits Sunray-penny-drop*


----------



## Sunray (Aug 9, 2009)

*watches something go over his head*


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 9, 2009)

*Rogue iPhone app stores raking mazuma*




			
				The Register said:
			
		

> There's a growing subculture of iPhone developers who are opting out of the App Store altogether, instead punting their wares on Cydia, an iPhone App Store "For the Rest of Us."
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Full Story

I wonder how Apple deals with this?

I think its interesting that enough people have chosen to bypass apple that their is an app store and people are paying for unofficial software.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 9, 2009)

Cydia sounds like a STD....


----------



## grit (Aug 9, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Full Story
> 
> I wonder how Apple deals with this?
> 
> I think its interesting that enough people have chosen to bypass apple that their is an app store and people are paying for unofficial software.



I run a jailbroken iphone 3g. Apple deals with it by each update essentially restoring the lock, a week or two later the crackers release a new version and its back to square one.


----------



## paolo (Aug 9, 2009)

Sunray said:


> *watches something go over his head*



Read the post downwards, first letters 

(We have of course exchanges PM's since)


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 9, 2009)

grit said:


> I run a jailbroken iphone 3g. Apple deals with it by each update essentially restoring the lock, a week or two later the crackers release a new version and its back to square one.



I was thinking more about the fact that someone has set up another app store that charges for apps, rather then how they deal with people jailbreaking them. Can they take any legal action against them for selling them?


----------



## grit (Aug 9, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> I was thinking more about the fact that someone has set up another app store that charges for apps, rather then how they deal with people jailbreaking them. Can they take any legal action against them for selling them?



I'd imagine they can but Id say as with any illegal activity online identifying them would be difficult? Just a guess.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 9, 2009)

Well his names in the article, he's put up google voice for free, but if he's charging for apps, then the their must be a payment system that would identify him and the people who payment was going to.  

If you've bought the device and are willing to break your warranty, then you should be able to buy your apps from where you want,.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 9, 2009)

I very much doubt that there is anything illegal going on by people selling or buying unapproved apps. What might be breached however is the ToS with the mobile provider.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 9, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I very much doubt that there is anything illegal going on by people selling or buying unapproved apps. What might be breached however is the ToS with the mobile provider.



If Apple pushed them hard enough could they crack down on people running jail broken? Could they tell by the apps people were running?


----------



## Sunray (Aug 9, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I very much doubt that there is anything illegal going on by people selling or buying unapproved apps. What might be breached however is the ToS with the mobile provider.



I've looked at those and its just a standard contract. So its nothing to do with the software on the phone.  You can use the sim in a WM device if you like and that can run anything.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 10, 2009)

Charlie Brooker


----------



## editor (Aug 10, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Charlie Brooker





> Is the Guardian even available on the iPhone? Bet it is. There's probably even a little downloadable application that lets you turn the pages by tilting it to one side. After all, there's an "app" for everything. There's one that turns the iPhone into a motion-sensitive light sabre: it makes wooshy Star Wars noises as you swipe it around. Really passes the time during the unrelenting march to the grave, that.
> 
> I'm unmoved in the face of friends screaming at me to join the iPhone cult. It's horrible. Here are a few iPhone apps I'd like to see:
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Aug 10, 2009)

This Apple/Google thing seems to be simmering away:





> Source: Apple And Google Agreed Not To Poach Workers
> 
> While Google CEO Eric Schmidt was on Apple’s board of directors, the two companies had an agreement not to hire away each other’s workers, a former Google employee with knowledge of such matters has told us. We have since confirmed this with other ex-Googlers. This was not a written agreement, and was considered non-official, but it was well-known and followed within the recruitment division of Google, we’re told.
> 
> ...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 11, 2009)

Civ is out for the iPhone! Civ Revolution to be specific.

It's taking forever to download.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 11, 2009)

I hope its less buggy than the Sims 3 as that crashes on me all the time. The iPhone just can't handle it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 11, 2009)

I heard that the iPhone Sims 3 was balls anyway so I don't think you're missing much.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 12, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Civ is out for the iPhone! Civ Revolution to be specific.
> 
> It's taking forever to download.


And at special introductory sale price of £3!

I've been playing it on the train this morning, and it is civilization on the iphone for real. Oh dear, there goes my life


----------



## stupid dogbot (Aug 12, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I heard that the iPhone Sims 3 was balls anyway so I don't think you're missing much.



Unless you're a 12 year old girl.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 12, 2009)

Crispy said:


> And at special introductory sale price of £3!
> 
> I've been playing it on the train this morning, and it is civilization on the iphone for real. Oh dear, there goes my life



I must be missing something. I keep having to wait for turns to end, because there's fuck all to do. I've started building a Colossus of Rhodes, but that's 16 turns away, so in the meantime I'm sitting around on a tiny island with 5 warriors doing fuck all.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 12, 2009)

My love for Peggle keeps growing as well. It's so satisfying.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 12, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> I must be missing something. I keep having to wait for turns to end, because there's fuck all to do. I've started building a Colossus of Rhodes, but that's 16 turns away, so in the meantime I'm sitting around on a tiny island with 5 warriors doing fuck all.


You played much civ before?

After your first defensive unit in a city, build settlers. Expand expand expand. If you come across neighbouring civs, make peace, then switch your nearest cities to offensive units. Build up an army of (Enemy cities)x4 or so, then attack quickly before they build up their own cities.

Your first techs should be military and scientific. You want the most powerful units in the early game so you can gain an early advantage and own your continent. Also, wiping out a few civs early on makes the others fear and respect you.

Don't bother with any city improvements that aren't military or tech. Barracks are of limited use as various techs keep making them obsolete and you get veteran units by winning battles anyway). Libraries are good early improvements, as are City Walls once you have Masonary.

The land improvement mechanism seems different in Civ Rev, so I haven't really got much to say on that just yet.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 12, 2009)

Crispy said:


> You played much civ before?
> 
> After your first defensive unit in a city, build settlers. Expand expand expand. If you come across neighbouring civs, make peace, then switch your nearest cities to offensive units. Attack quickly before they build up their own cities.
> 
> ...



Aha. Settlers. I made triremes and armies my priority. Couldn't get off the island though, so felt kind of pointless. I will heed your advice and try again.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Civ is out for the iPhone! Civ Revolution to be specific.
> 
> It's taking forever to download.



Holy fucking shit!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2009)

Hmmm 73mb, will have to wait till home to download...here's some screen shots (I'm super happy!):


----------



## Kanda (Aug 12, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Hmmm 73mb, will have to wait till home to download...



No wireless where you are? Came down in a few minutes at work yesterday.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2009)

Kanda said:


> No wireless where you are? Came down in a few minutes at work yesterday.



Other organisations in the building have wifi net but they're all secured...


----------



## spacemonkey (Aug 12, 2009)

Thanks to one awesome urbanite, I HAZ AN IPHONE. 

It's lovely. 

I can't sign up for Itunes though, so can't get any apps. Think the credit payment thingy is borked.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 12, 2009)

what sort of card are you using? and I presume you're signing up through iTunes on the PC, no through the phone?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 12, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> Aha. Settlers. I made triremes and armies my priority. Couldn't get off the island though, so felt kind of pointless. I will heed your advice and try again.


ignore what I said about barracks, seems like they don't get made obsolete at all, so they should be among your very first buildings.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2009)

Hmmm just tried to d/l Civ and got a message saying the app is being modified and to try again later...what's the betting I end paying full price?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 13, 2009)

By the time it allowed me to d/l it'd gone to 5.99, bought it anyway! My first paid for game on the iPhone, and man is it fun! Very nicely implented from what I've seen so far.


----------



## spacemonkey (Aug 13, 2009)

Crispy said:


> what sort of card are you using? and I presume you're signing up through iTunes on the PC, no through the phone?



Sorted now ta!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 13, 2009)

They've changed it a bit for ease of use and also shorter games, but it doesn't feel dumbed down - there's still plenty of content and variety, it's more that you're less likely to get into some annoying military stalemate, and games can finish in an hour or two of play, which is more suitable for a casual game device. The only annoying thing I've found so far is that it's easy to accidentally move a unit while trying to scroll the map, and also, no "go to city" command (also: can't fortify nukes?)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 13, 2009)

New supposed video of the speculated coming iTablet...


----------



## Crispy (Aug 13, 2009)

laughably fake


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 13, 2009)

Yeah I'd say so, apart from not showing the whole thing the apps work too slow...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 13, 2009)

Yeah. Doesn't even show the supposed tablet at all, just a finger touching a screen in time with stuff.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 13, 2009)

And the screen distorts when touched....


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 13, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They've changed it a bit for ease of use and also shorter games, but it doesn't feel dumbed down - there's still plenty of content and variety, it's more that you're less likely to get into some annoying military stalemate, and games can finish in an hour or two of play, which is more suitable for a casual game device. The only annoying thing I've found so far is that it's easy to accidentally move a unit while trying to scroll the map, and also, no "go to city" command (also: can't fortify nukes?)



It crashed and I lost over an hour's play... won't be going back.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 13, 2009)

save your game, dur!

now, I must get back to crushing the indians. I have their empire blocked off through a well-positioned foritfied city on a neck of land and HELL no I won't give them Metallurgy in return for ending the bloodshed


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 13, 2009)

Crispy said:


> save your game, dur!
> 
> now, I must get back to crushing the indians. I have their empire blocked off through a well-positioned foritfied city on a neck of land and HELL no I won't give them Metallurgy in return for ending the bloodshed



Saving my game every 5 mins in case of crashes is totally against what I love about the iphone. None of that nonsense for me, thanks. Back to Peggle and Worms and Zenonia and Wolfenstein 3D!


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2009)

This looks a handy list for iPhone snappers:





> Flash for Free: One of three great free photography apps from developer Michael Moon, Flash for Free applies a software flash to images taken by your iPhone. In other words, it lightens/brightens pics with minimal noise or distortion. The are a few paid apps that do a better job but for the low, low price of nada, Flash for Free is a terrific option.
> HDR for Free: Again from Moon, HDR for Free is a great app that allows you to enhance the contrast between light and dark areas of a photo. The app supports nine preset degrees of HDR.
> Crop for Free: Moon’s third free photo utility, Crop for Free does exactly what the title implies. It crops photos. For free. While there are a few apps in this list that will crop your shots as well, none are as quick and easy as Crop for Free when all you need is a quick crop.
> Pixel Perfect: This gem by Code Monkeys at Work is free for a limited time so hit the link now or forever be bound by the constraints of the Lite version. It allows you to apply a variety off effects to your pics including sepia, brightness, saturation and hue, and adjust the intensity of relevant effects.
> ...



*10 fantastic free iPhone apps every photography fan should have*
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009...phone-apps-every-photography-fan-should-have/


----------



## teuchter (Aug 17, 2009)

editor said:


> This looks a handy list for iPhone snappers:
> 
> *10 fantastic free iPhone apps every photography fan should have*
> http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009...phone-apps-every-photography-fan-should-have/



Forgive my snobbery but to me they sound suspiciously like 10 fantastic free iphone apps everyone can use to make their slightly rubbish iphone photos slightly more rubbish.


----------



## magneze (Aug 17, 2009)

I've been looking into iPhone app development. You need a Mac to do it. FFS.  x 1000


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Forgive my snobbery but to me they sound suspiciously like 10 fantastic free iphone apps everyone can use to make their slightly rubbish iphone photos slightly more rubbish.


Well, yes. The iPhone camera is a hideously poor bodge compared to most similarly priced cameraphones, but at least those apps might help you get the best out of them. The one in my G1 is almost as bad.


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2009)

This is cool, although unpleasantly  pricey at a tenner a map:





> RouteBuddy and Ordnance Survey have announced the release of the first Ordnance Survey 1:50,000 scale maps compatible with the iPhone and iPod touch.
> 
> A free RouteBuddy Atlas application, available from the Apple iTunes App Store, offers iPhone and iPod touch users the ability to load and display multiple Ordnance Survey maps even when offline available to buy from RouteBuddy.
> 
> ...


Trouble is, that app is going to whap yer battery life, but at least there's this guide to getting the most out of your battery:
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/news.phtml/26342/iphone-battery-lifespan-tips-charge.phtml

Oh, and Tom Tom has finally been released for the iPhone for £60:
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...phones/tom-tom-iphone-app-goes-on-sale-626646


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 17, 2009)

The 3GS 3 megapixel camera is fine...

Anyhoo, Facebook 3.0 app submitted to Apple! Can't wait to get push notification for it.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The 3GS 3 megapixel camera is fine...
> 
> Anyhoo, Facebook 3.0 app submitted to Apple! Can't wait to get push notification for it.



Fine for what? Its shit.

I think a Powershot iPhone would be a fantastic idea.  Canon don't make phones.


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Fine for what? Its shit.
> 
> I think a Powershot iPhone would be a fantastic idea.  Canon don't make phones.


I turned off push notifications for Facebook on my phone as it's a grand waste of battery life.

I guess Apple have intentionally kept the camera a bit shonky so they'll have something to tempt people with in the next iPhone (just like they kept video back until the 3GS).


----------



## teuchter (Aug 18, 2009)

If they did an iphone with a decent camera (and didn't try and charge twice as much as the competition) I could possibly be tempted.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 18, 2009)

A good camera on a phone is going to make you want to use it. Thats just going to drain the battery. Bad idea. Probably best the iPhone has no camera at all to be honest. Plus that 3G drains it like a mother too so they should ditch that as well.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 18, 2009)

The 3.2Mp K800i took some great pictures for me.  

Apples effort is a comedy comparison.  Off the shelf shitty CCD.

Need pro camera people to develop it.  As for batter life, taking pictures is pretty low power, the screen is the biggest drain on battery.  Whats costly would be a flash.  If you look at the K800i there is a sticky out bit for the two huge capacitors needed to drive the flash.  

If Apple were to truly innovate again, the inclusion of a 5MP camera with 10x optical zoom, AMOLED display and one of those Sony Methanol batteries that could power it for 2 weeks straight.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> As for batter life, taking pictures is pretty low power, the screen is the biggest drain on battery.



The screen is used when taking pictures silly.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Fine for what? Its shit.
> 
> I think a Powershot iPhone would be a fantastic idea.  Canon don't make phones.



I've not taken one duff shot with it. I don't expect amazing results because ime no camera on a phone is up to the standard I'd ideally want...


----------



## teuchter (Aug 18, 2009)

Sunray said:


> As for batter life, taking pictures is pretty low power, the screen is the biggest drain on battery.



On my phone found that using the camera is one of the biggest drains. Took me a while to realise this is why it could go from fairly much fully charged to dead in an hour or two if I was out and about and taking a lot of pictures.

I'm not sure why this is - it can't just be the screen because browsing the web for the same kind of time didn't wipe it out as fast.

Maybe because there are physically moving parts in it?


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've not taken one duff shot with it. I don't expect amazing results because ime no camera on a phone is up to the standard I'd ideally want...


I'd love to see your low light shots, then! It's pretty much acknowledged that the iPhone's camera is well below current standards and everyone I know with the iPhone says the same. Like the G1's camera, it's fine in good light but absolutely awful in low light, where it can take an age to focus and produces really shite images.

The Pre comes with a non-focussing camera and I'll be interested to see how that copes in comparison - it's a lot faster but I wonder how good the depth of field is. Mind you, it does have a flash which can help. The Nokias have some pretty good cameras, mind.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 18, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I'm not sure why this is - it can't just be the screen because browsing the web for the same kind of time didn't wipe it out as fast.


Because the screen is contantly previewing, almost all the pixels are changing many times a second which draws quite a lot of power.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 18, 2009)

Yes, that.

It's not a _particularly_ bad camera, it's pretty average for a phone these days. I have lots of pics that I took on holiday which look fine, if not proper-camera quality.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 18, 2009)

Can't speak for the 3GS but my 2G and 3G were useless in low light. Not helped by the lack of flash.

I carry a compact with me instead.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2009)

editor said:


> I'd love to see your low light shots, then! It's pretty much acknowledged that the iPhone's camera is well below current standards and everyone I know with the iPhone says the same. Like the G1's camera, it's fine in good light but absolutely awful in low light, where it can take an age to focus and produces really shite images.
> 
> The Pre comes with a non-focussing camera and I'll be interested to see how that copes in comparison - it's a lot faster but I wonder how good the depth of field is. Mind you, it does have a flash which can help. The Nokias have some pretty good cameras, mind.



I'm not a professional photographer so don't have unrealistic expectations of a camera on a phone. No camera phone's I've seen are especially great in low light. If you want decent low light photo's I suggest you put away your mobile and bring a compact along with you (which is what I do).


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 18, 2009)

editor said:


> Well, yes. The iPhone camera is a hideously poor bodge compared to most similarly priced cameraphones, but at least those apps might help you get the best out of them. The one in my G1 is almost as bad.



I actually found picture quality better on the iPhone 3G (let alone my 3GS) than on my Touch HD.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2009)

Oh yeah, loving Civilisation Revolution for the iPhone, this is what mobile gaming is about! It works so well on the device, looks great, and is still a very solid Civ game!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh yeah, loving Civilisation Revolution for the iPhone, this is what mobile gaming is about! It works so well on the device, looks great, and is still a very solid Civ game!



Crashes all the time for me... maybe it's 'cos mine is jailbroken.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 18, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> Crashes all the time for me... maybe it's 'cos mine is jailbroken.


must be. I've only had two crashes to the home screen and I've been playing the hell out of it since I got it.

I've won at Emporer level with economic and cultural victories. Conquest victory is definitely the hardest, haven't managed that on the higher difficulties yet. I'm having a crack at a science victory on Diety now, let's see how we go...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> Crashes all the time for me... maybe it's 'cos mine is jailbroken.



Maybe, mines worked perfectly not one crash as yet.


----------



## grit (Aug 18, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Maybe, mines worked perfectly not one crash as yet.



Ditto I'm actually starting to question if jailbreaking my 3g has actually made it more stable.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2009)

I couldn't say, I've got a 3GS non jail broken....


----------



## kropotkin (Aug 18, 2009)

TomTom is out, and it isn't very good.

Navigon is much better (from little experience with the former, and a 3 hour drive with the latter)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 18, 2009)

kropotkin said:


> TomTom is out, and it isn't very good.
> 
> Navigon is much better (from little experience with the former, and a 3 hour drive with the latter)



You tried the TomTom app? Apparently the cradle makes it better...

Anyway, Facebook 3.0 is out soon! Can't wait for the update, better photo management and video uploading. Plus 3.1 will bring push notifications. 



> The “new” News Feed
> Like
> Events (including the ability to RSVP)
> Notes
> ...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 19, 2009)

facebook yuk

I just wanted to post a bit about my experiences with my external battery pack. It's a Kensington one, which looks very slick, nice slim flat black thing with a touch-button charge display - I'm sure you can get them cheaper but this was only 20 quid or so iirc.

Anyway, it carries about 100% worth of charge, perhaps a bit more. You plug it into the phone like a normal USB cable and it charges it up, but you can disconnect it and reconnect it at any time. I find this quite convenient - if your battery is looking a bit down, you don't have to wait until it runs out or worry about wasting charge when you swap batteries, you can top it up to make sure it keeps running.

The iPhone's battery is just at the level that if you take it out and use it a lot, it will be running down near the end of the day and you can guarantee that'll be when you really want it. That was always the main issue I had with it - it just didn't have the charge of, say, my EEE 901, which I don't think has ever run out of juice with normal usage. With the option of a charge pack as well, the effective battery life is pretty much perfect. I'll never run out during a day unless I spend the entire time on google maps.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 19, 2009)

20 quid? Where did you buy it for that?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 19, 2009)

I may have the price wrong. I can't google it, because my internet is obscurely fucked. It wasn't vastly expensive though.


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2009)

This story seems to be gaining momentum:





> EU's exploding-iPhone investigation heats up
> 
> ....Numerous reports say the European Commission is now looking into accounts of exploding iPhones and iPod Touches--and Apple is cooperating, according to The New York Times.
> 
> ...


Seeing as Apple already have a bit of a dodgy record of trying to silence owners of 'exploding' devices, the EU may have trouble finding out how serious (if at all) this problem is.

FM: I've been using the Proporta portable chargers and they're pretty good.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 19, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I may have the price wrong. I can't google it, because my internet is obscurely fucked. It wasn't vastly expensive though.



Tried looking on their site but it wasn't immediately obvious, the one that jumped out was something like 70 dollars...


----------



## Supine (Aug 19, 2009)

I'm now reading this thread from my new iPhone. I blame you lot on this thread 

cheers though, I'm loving it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 19, 2009)

Supine said:


> I'm now reading this thread from my new iPhone. I blame you lot on this thread
> 
> cheers though, I'm loving it.



Heh nice one!  What's your favourite apps so far?


----------



## Supine (Aug 19, 2009)

Flightcontrol game and fb app so far.

I need to get some more stuff though 

it's great have a little computer. I've hardly used it as a phone.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Aug 20, 2009)

Crispy said:


> save your game, dur!
> 
> now, I must get back to crushing the indians. I have their empire blocked off through a well-positioned foritfied city on a neck of land and HELL no I won't give them Metallurgy in return for ending the bloodshed



And I thought you were such a nice pacifist boy.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2009)

Here's a real nutter. Apparently dissatisfied with Apple's dictatorial policies, he takes it out on his iPhone and pumps it full of 9mm bullets and films the poor handset taking the hits. And that's not enough for this bloke - he then douses it with petrol and sets it on fire. Weird.


I was quite impressed with his typing speed, mind.


----------



## Pie 1 (Aug 20, 2009)

He could have just jail broken it.
What a spaz


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> He could have just jail broken it.
> What a spaz


Or given it to me. 

Yanks and their guns though, innit?


----------



## Gromit (Aug 20, 2009)

I guess us, the world, are suppose to think wow he is so cool. 

I just think he's a nob. Hope he was on a 18 month contract. 

I suspect though that he did a switch and shot a broken phone. Or it's his old phone left over from an upgrade to a 3GS.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2009)

Gromit said:


> I suspect though that he did a switch and shot a broken phone. Or it's his old phone left over from an upgrade to a 3GS.


Still a ruddy stupid thing to do.


----------



## dogmatique (Aug 20, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> ... external battery pack. It's a Kensington one, which looks very slick, nice slim flat black thing with a touch-button charge display - I'm sure you can get them cheaper but this was only 20 quid or so iirc.
> 
> Anyway, it carries about 100% worth of charge



Having tried a couple of external batteries, including the Proporta, but not the Kensington one, I wanted one with a bit more power, and found the IMAX POWER a month or so ago.

It's basically a 5000 mAh battery in an enclosure, and is made by the manufacturer of Apple's OEM batteries, so it's pretty good quality.  Couldn't find a UK retailer, so bought one of eBay for 30 quid or so.

Excellent buy - it managed to power my iPhone 3GS for a whole week and still have some charge left over.  It supposedly stores over 3 full charges of the iPhone's battery and then some.  Very impressed...  The eBay seller had a two pack deal, so got two for just under 70 quid.  So I can go off the national grid for two weeks without worry.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2009)

dogmatique said:


> Having tried a couple of external batteries, including the Proporta, but not the Kensington one, I wanted one with a bit more power, and found the IMAX POWER a month or so ago.


It's a mighty chunky fella alright, but you can't knock the power capacity - 5000 mAh is a feast of juice!


----------



## dogmatique (Aug 20, 2009)

Probably about the size of a bar of soap, but a bit thinner.  Not that much of an addition to your pack for the amount of juice it provides...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 21, 2009)

Is something big afoot with app approval?? 



> We're always a little hesitant to get too optimistic about changes to the App Store approval process, but it looks like there's been a few hopeful changes to the way things are done in the past few days, which could well lead to some previously rejected apps becoming available. Perhaps the most encouraging sign is that Apple seems to actually be going back through rejected apps and contacting develops to resubmit their app (without any changes, mind you) for an "expedited review." One such app is the Start Mobile Wallpaper Gallery, which was rejected for using Shepard Fairey's famous "HOPE" image of Barack Obama on the grounds that it "ridicules public figures." *In other App Store news, the developer of the officially-licensed C64 emulator also says that it was contacted by a senior director at Apple, who reportedly said that there was "BIG news coming," but didn't elaborate any further. But, really, is there any news bigger than a C64 emulator?*



Intriguing, although it wouldn't surprise me if Apple decide to relax it's baffling guidelines to generate yet more publicity and brand awareness...


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2009)

The Google Voice controversy rages on: AT&T have emphatically denied playing any part at all in the rejection of the app:



> "To that end, let me state unequivocally, AT&T had no role in any decision by Apple to not accept the Google Voice application for inclusion in the Apple App Store," he said. "AT&T was not asked about the matter by Apple at any time, nor did we offer any view one way or the other."



Apple have responded with some not-entirely convincing waffle that they haven't actually rejected the app but are still 'thinking about it,' - a comment that spurned a developer of Google Voice-related applications to call foul and say that Apple are trying to pull the wool over the FCC's eyes.

More: http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/21/atandt-tells-the-fcc-it-had-no-role-in-removing-google-voice-fro/


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2009)

They're all as thick as thieves:





> US telecoms giant AT&T has admitted that it struck a deal with Apple to prevent iPhone applications from using its network for VoIP.
> 
> In July, Apple rejected Google's application for the Google Voice app to be sold in its App Store, and removed several third-party applications that leveraged the same technology.
> 
> ...


----------



## derf (Aug 24, 2009)

Just out of interest. I have now seen iphone copies over here. They look exactly the same but have a TV tuner on board.
They cost a lot less.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Aug 24, 2009)

I'd imagine they're far less robust, too, just like most knock off gear.


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2009)

Probably great buggy, clunky beasts too. Mind you, if Apple squeezed in an FM tuner (and a keyboard) my iResistance may crumble.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 24, 2009)

Saw my first jailbroken iPhone up close at the weekend (again big group of us, most had iPhone's a few had Blackberries), some cool stuff although I don't like the idea of borkin my phone so not sure about risking it...


----------



## teuchter (Aug 24, 2009)

Is it reckoned that a real keyboard is faster than the iphone virtual one, then?

I think I saw something saying this wasn't the case, largely because the iphone's got really good error-correction software.


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Is it reckoned that a real keyboard is faster than the iphone virtual one, then?
> 
> I think I saw something saying this wasn't the case, largely because the iphone's got really good error-correction software.


It's pretty much accepted that a good hardware keyboard is always faster than an onscreen virtual one. That's why laptops and desktops  ship with hardware keyboards.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 24, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> again big group of us, most had iPhone's a few had Blackberries



Were you in a gastropub in North London by any chance?


----------



## editor (Aug 24, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Were you in a gastropub in North London by any chance?


You're painting a picture of an awful stereotype there.

*resists temptation


----------



## derf (Aug 24, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> I'd imagine they're far less robust, too, just like most knock off gear.





editor said:


> Probably great buggy, clunky beasts too. Mind you, if Apple squeezed in an FM tuner (and a keyboard) my iResistance may crumble.



Externally the two look and feel exactly the same. The user interface looks the same as well. I have no way to comment about the durability of the units but a teacher I know says it's fine.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 24, 2009)

editor said:


> It's pretty much accepted that a good hardware keyboard is always faster than an onscreen virtual one. That's why laptops and desktops  ship with hardware keyboards.



The smaller you make keyboards the less it becomes true.  Add in error correction from Apple and you have a very fast to type on keyboard.  If there were an identical sized hardware keyboard, I'd say it be fairly close.

What it can't make up for is tactile feedback which some insist on.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 24, 2009)

editor said:


> It's pretty much accepted that a good hardware keyboard is always faster than an onscreen virtual one. That's why laptops and desktops  ship with hardware keyboards.



It's plenty fast enough for what I use it for. How fast do I need to type Bone him?

It's a phone not a laptop after all. If I wanted to do a lot of mobile work I'd carry a netbook.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Aug 24, 2009)

derf said:


> Externally the two look and feel exactly the same. The user interface looks the same as well. I have no way to comment about the durability of the units but a teacher I know says it's fine.



Oh well, that's convinced me, then!



Knock off gear is _always_ of substandard quality.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 24, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Were you in a gastropub in North London by any chance?





Not quite a gastro pub but yeah it was West Hampstead...


----------



## Sunray (Aug 24, 2009)

I think Apple didn't really plan for huge software releases on it iPhone when they set up the App store validation system.

Big companies like Google getting applications rejected has caused huge negative press for them.  Rhapsody and Spotify have both submitted app for their premium services in direct competition to iTunes, both with big press releases.  

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/08/24/rhapsody_on_iphone/

Apple I think will have no choice on either to let them pass, even if it doesn't want to.

They are still considering the Google voice one apparently, they don't like googles UI as its too far from the iPhone style guide.  Thats what good about the iPhone app store how ever bad random rejections on moral or ethical grounds.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 25, 2009)

The guy that wrote the Facebook app has this interesting post about scrapping the review process:



> I'd like to add my voice to the stream of complaints about the iPhone App Store, but before I say anything critical, I have to promise one thing. No matter how annoyed I get, I will not stop developing for Apple's platforms or using Apple's products as long as they continue to produce the best stuff on the market. I never forget how deeply Apple cares about making their users happy, and that counts more than how they treat their developers. Besides, when I have a problem with a friend, I don't threaten to boycott our friendship until they change, so I'm not going to do that to Apple either.
> 
> Having said that, I have only one major complaint with the App Store, and I can state it quite simply: the review process needs to be eliminated completely.


----------



## derf (Aug 25, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> Oh well, that's convinced me, then!
> 
> 
> 
> Knock off gear is _always_ of substandard quality.



Of course Pak Asep will be biased as he bought one. I, myself, would not.
The bit about knock off is a bit sweeping but it has to be generally right.


----------



## derf (Aug 25, 2009)

Also.
When the iphone first arrived on the UK's shores there were predictions of battery problems. Have they happened or are things all well and good?

No reason to ask but for interest.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Aug 25, 2009)

My 3G is now 15 months old (bought at release) and it had a little battery wobble the other day (ran out before midday after being fully charged, but was pretty much unused), I thought it was the beginning of the end, but it seems to have sorted itself out.

Good job, really, as there's no way I'm paying o2's ridiculous upgrade cost for a 3GS.


----------



## editor (Aug 25, 2009)

derf said:


> Also.
> When the iphone first arrived on the UK's shores there were predictions of battery problems. Have they happened or are things all well and good?


If you're coming from an old school Nokia you're going to be hugely disappointed with the iPhone's battery life. Like most big screen smartphones, you're going to be charging it every day.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 25, 2009)

The reason iPhones need to be charged everyday is cause us iPhone users use em to death. 
If I used it the same way I used to use my Razr the battery would last days.

It's not a phone but an electronic narcotic. 

/finishes his current fix but will be back for another in a minute.


----------



## editor (Aug 25, 2009)

A Facebook engineer has got so fed up with waiting for Apple to approve their latest app that's he's let rip on his blog:



> Innocent Until Proven Guilty
> 
> ....I have only one major complaint with the App Store, and I can state it quite simply: the review process needs to be eliminated completely.
> 
> ...


He's got a point though. Android hasn't exactly collapsed in a heap of malicious code, and there's no app approval queue's going on there.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 25, 2009)

LOL at your skim reading, I posted that very link a mere few posts above!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 25, 2009)

Gromit said:


> The reason iPhones need to be charged everyday is cause us iPhone users use em to death.
> If I used it the same way I used to use my Razr the battery would last days.
> 
> It's not a phone but an electronic narcotic.
> ...



There's probably something too that, iPhone users are always mucking about with the phone far more than any ordinary phone user ime...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 25, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> There's probably something too that, iPhone users are always mucking about with the phone far more than any ordinary phone user ime...



Not really true ime. I don't really use my iPhone any more than any of my other smart phones. More gaming, but then I don't have all that much time for games anyway!


----------



## grit (Aug 25, 2009)

editor said:


> A Facebook engineer has got so fed up with waiting for Apple to approve their latest app that's he's let rip on his blog:
> 
> Android hasn't exactly collapsed in a heap of malicious code, and there's no app approval queue's going on there.



Android hasn't exactly got the market share iphone does.


----------



## editor (Aug 25, 2009)

grit said:


> Android hasn't exactly got the market share iphone does.


Not entirely sure how that negates the point, to be honest. Symbian has a vastly bigger market share and that's managed to stay afloat without the need for a rigid app approval system.


----------



## jæd (Aug 25, 2009)

editor said:


> Not entirely sure how that negates the point, to be honest. Symbian has a vastly bigger market share and that's managed to stay afloat without the need for a rigid app approval system.



My understanding of Symbian development was that you required a special certification process to make an official "Symbian" app and that some carriers wouldn't allow non-official apps onto phones...?  (This was about a year or two ago).

My understanding was also it was a pigs ear to develop with. (Some weird subset of C++)


----------



## editor (Aug 25, 2009)

jæd said:


> My understanding of Symbian development was that you required a special certification process to make an official "Symbian" app and that some carriers wouldn't allow non-official apps onto phones...?


Who's talking about "official" apps?  

I'm talking about apps that users can freely stick on their phones and Symbian seems to have muddled through OK without having corporate approval/censorship of every app that's allowed on users' handsets.


----------



## jæd (Aug 25, 2009)

editor said:


> Who's talking about "official" apps?
> 
> I'm talking about apps that users can freely stick on their phones and Symbian seems to have muddled through OK without having corporate approval/censorship of every app that's allowed on users' handsets.



The thing is that that some Carriers don't allow this. Plus, because of the complexity of developing for Symbian there are probably less applications floating around...


----------



## editor (Aug 25, 2009)

jæd said:


> The thing is that that some Carriers don't allow this. Plus, because of the complexity of developing for Symbian there are probably less applications floating around...


How do they actively prevent someone installng an app or a game on their Nokia phone?


----------



## jæd (Aug 25, 2009)

editor said:


> How do they actively prevent someone installng an app or a game on their Nokia phone?



By not allowing un-signed Apps to run...


----------



## editor (Aug 25, 2009)

jæd said:


> By not allowing un-signed Apps to run...


But that's not the same as Apple's total grip on apps though is it? The point is that there's billions of Symbian phones out there and the platform hasn't collapsed in a heap because its apps haven't been vetted by the handset manufacturer.


----------



## grit (Aug 25, 2009)

editor said:


> But that's not the same as Apple's total grip on apps though is it? The point is that there's billions of Symbian phones out there and the platform hasn't collapsed in a heap because its apps haven't been vetted by the handset manufacturer.



The reason its not an issue for Symbian is because of the fucking heartbreak the J2ME developers have to endure considering all the non standard implementations.

You  have to develop seven distinct different versions to cover most (not even all!) the bases when targeting s60. There isint nearly the interest in s60 applications compared to iphone.

Plus any carrier can have features locked down by the manufacturer, usually its just a soft lock.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 25, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> far more than any ordinary phone user ime...



so you think you're extraordinary eh?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 25, 2009)

Symbian is not a very good example of a platform that's produced a good phone application experience. I've owned symbian phones for years and maybe ended up with a dozen apps that worked and were worth the money; obtaining, transferring, installing and waiting for the inevitable error messages just wasn't worth it. In the short time I've had an iPhone I must have hundreds.

In fact I ended up buying more apps from my mobile providers online shop that anywhere else, which were all pre approved obviously, because I knew they'd work on my handset. Even though even a simple game would cost as much as a DS-quality iPhone release.

Palm would probably be a better example of a non approved mobile platform that worked despite not being phone based (well, until the end, when the platform wasn't doing v well anyway). I also think that if Palm had had a proper OTA app sales system they'd have done very well out of it.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 25, 2009)

It's true there are quite a few very ropey symbian apps out there; and also it's a bit hit and miss whether they actually install successfuly. As Fridgemagnet says this can dent one's enthusiasm for trying new ones.

There is the "symbian signed" system but I have to say that I am rather perplexed by it, and what it actually means, and why I seem to be able to install some "unsigned" apps but not others, all compounded by the trademark confusing symbian settings where you seem to have some control over what level of caution your phone applies to new apps, but you aren't quite clear how much.


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2009)

teuchter said:


> It's true there are quite a few very ropey symbian apps out there; and also it's a bit hit and miss whether they actually install successfuly. As Fridgemagnet says this can dent one's enthusiasm for trying new ones.


There's tons of ropey Palm OS apps there, but surely it's up to the users if they want to use them or not?  The point is that tens of thousands of Palm apps were released over the years and the platform didn't implode because of malicious code or poorly written apps.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 26, 2009)

editor said:


> There's tons of ropey Palm OS apps there, but surely it's up to the users if they want to use them or not?  The point is that tens of thousands of Palm apps were released over the years and the platform didn't implode because of malicious code or poorly written apps.



It's not so much about the system imploding .... it's about user-friendliness which is what Apple do well and why the iPhone has done so astoundingly well despite being, in terms of hardware, quite mediocre and not really more advanced than things available several years ago from other manufacturers.

So in terms of appealing to the mass market (ie people who don't want to spend time faffing about with things) being the way they are about their app store seems to make complete sense.

I think for most people, it will only take one or two apps that fail to install, or don't work properly if they do, for them to decide they can't be bothered with the hassle and then they won't try again and will go back to using their phone for making phone calls and sending texts and not much else - at which point there is no point in them owning an iphone.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 26, 2009)

teuchter said:


> It's not so much about the system imploding .... it's about user-friendliness which is what Apple do well and why the iPhone has done so astoundingly well despite being, in terms of hardware, quite mediocre and not really more advanced than things available several years ago from other manufacturers.
> 
> So in terms of appealing to the mass market (ie people who don't want to spend time faffing about with things) being the way they are about their app store seems to make complete sense.
> 
> I think for most people, it will only take one or two apps that fail to install, or don't work properly if they do, for them to decide they can't be bothered with the hassle and then they won't try again and will go back to using their phone for making phone calls and sending texts and not much else - at which point there is no point in them owning an iphone.



Agree completely. Bored of installing stuff that doesn't deliver, crashes or is shite... The one thing I like is that no matter what I download, on the move or at work or wherever.. it simply works, regardless how shit it may be.


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I think for most people, it will only take one or two apps that fail to install, or don't work properly if they do, for them to decide they can't be bothered with the hassle and then they won't try again and will go back to using their phone for making phone calls and sending texts and not much else - at which point there is no point in them owning an iphone.


Apple have done a grand job of providing a smooth user experience, but the vast majority of  apps on mobile platforms work just fine.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 26, 2009)

editor said:


> Apple have done a grand job of providing a smooth user experience, but the vast majority of  apps on mobile platforms work just fine.



Not on Symbian they don't. Blimey. I'm just wondering how much time I've wasted trying to get them to work and putting in libraries which also don't work etc etc. The Sony was the worst.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 26, 2009)

editor said:


> but the vast majority of  apps on mobile platforms work just fine.



That's not been my experience on Symbian. I'd say that about 1/3 of apps I try fail to istall (never mind work properly). 

There are plenty of Symbian apps that do work well, and once you reduce the iPhone apps down to ones that are actually useful, there probably aren't that many more than there are Symbian apps.

But finding and installing the good symbian apps takes rather more effort than appears to be the case on the iPhone.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 26, 2009)

Palm may be better because it's just one manufacturer with a certain number of devices.

As others have said there seems to be a multitude of slightly different phones and UIs that symbian apps have to try and work on.

(Don't particularly know what I'm talking about here but this is the impression I get)


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Not on Symbian they don't. Blimey. I'm just wondering how much time I've wasted trying to get them to work and putting in libraries which also don't work etc etc. The Sony was the worst.


OK: I'll reword that. The vast majority of apps on mobile platforms like Blackberry, Palm, Android and Windows Mobile work just fine, although users of all platforms (yes, even  iPhone users) will sometimes encounter problems with apps.

I installed hundreds of apps on my Palm devices and rarely encountered major problems and Android has been very stable.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 26, 2009)

teuchter said:


> It's not so much about the system imploding .... it's about user-friendliness.



This I feel is part of it.

If you require a geek factor of over 5 out of 10 to operate an ap I don't think they want it. They want cool aps that numpties can use intuitively.

Some coders design stuff as if everyone using their product is a software engineer rather than a hair dresser or housewife.


----------



## jæd (Aug 26, 2009)

editor said:


> I installed hundreds of apps on my Palm devices and rarely encountered major problems and Android has been very stable.



That's wishful thinking. I remember having to shuffle certain apps around and the occasional reset when it became unstable. And then running through the apps I had installed to find which ones were making it crash.

And we won't say anything about Windows Mobile and the amount of time I've had to hang around waiting while someone's phone has crashed and is rebooting.

With the the iPhone I've had individual apps crash, but none have brought down the rest of the phone. 

I (unlike you) see the App Store review process as a "necessary evil". Its annoying but it preserves the user experience which is what Apple is about. And the Facebook developer seems to have forgotten. Discuss.


----------



## grit (Aug 26, 2009)

teuchter said:


> That's not been my experience on Symbian. I'd say that about 1/3 of apps I try fail to istall (never mind work properly).



From a J2ME developer, we try honestly we do, spend multiple late nights in the office cross testing on as many handsets as possible and the code still just refuses to work on a sizable subset of the handsets. 

J2ME is broken, everyone knows it.

Funny how this conversations has gone totally full circle once again, I was just half tempted to quote one of my posts from pages ago as it explained this problem to the editor.


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2009)

jæd said:


> I (unlike you) see the App Store review process as a "necessary evil". Its annoying but it preserves the user experience which is what Apple is about. And the Facebook developer seems to have forgotten. Discuss.


Well, I guess that's the difference between me and you. I'm against closed, monopolistic, moralistic systems that gives the manufacturer total control over what users can put on the phone they've bought. 

Other operating systems like Blackberry have managed just fine without the need for every single app to be approved (or rejected on at the manufacturer's whim, perhaps because it contains - gasp! -_ naughty words_), and Apple's control freakery sets a terrible precedent for the industry.

All, IMO, of course.


----------



## grit (Aug 26, 2009)

editor said:


> Well, I guess that's the difference between me and you. I'm against closed, monopolistic, moralistic systems that gives the manufacturer total control over what users can put on the phone they've bought.



Absolutely fair enough, I totally see where your coming from. 

In the iPhones case, its these practices that has made it possible to produce such a groundbreaking handset, thats what I think is being said here.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 26, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Agree completely. Bored of installing stuff that doesn't deliver, crashes or is shite... The one thing I like is that no matter what I download, on the move or at work or wherever.. it simply works, regardless how shit it may be.



Indeed which is why it's so popular. The beauty of the iPhone is it just works, people for most part (and this excludes the lunatic anti Apple brigade who would bitch at anything Apple does no matter how bad or good) will always give up a little control for a great deal of convenience.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 26, 2009)

There is however the point that a rubbish approval system *does* affect the user experience for everyone, eventually. It isn't just developers and the blogerati. For instance, one of the many issues is that updates take so long to get approved that vital bugfixes can wait weeks or months to go through, which can be very irritating for end users.


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> the lunatic anti Apple brigade


LOL.


----------



## grit (Aug 26, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed which is why it's so popular. The beauty of the iPhone is it just works, people for most part (and this excludes the lunatic anti Apple brigade who would bitch at anything Apple does no matter how bad or good) will always give up a little control for a great deal of convenience.



Woohoo 19 pages later and we are still making the same points *sigh*


----------



## Crispy (Aug 26, 2009)

grit said:


> Woohoo 19 pages later and we are still making the same points *sigh*


This _is_ the tech forum you know?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 26, 2009)

grit said:


> Woohoo 19 pages later and we are still making the same points *sigh*



Yeah it's great aint it...


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed which is why it's so popular. The beauty of the iPhone is it just works...


Apart from when they're not exploding, of course. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8223005.stm


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 26, 2009)

editor said:


> Apart from when they're not exploding, of course.
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8223005.stm



LOL! Yeah I can't see a couple exploding phones is gonna make any dent in the million plus sales, or the 200 million Apple are expected to sell by 2011.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 26, 2009)

editor said:


> Apart from when they're not exploding, of course.


Au contraire.... they work even better when they're "*not* exploding". 

[/pedant-mode]


----------



## Sunray (Aug 27, 2009)

Peggle for the iPhone.

What a great time waster.  Stupidly simple yet very compelling. Often leaves you wondering if the level is hard or I was just unlucky.


----------



## editor (Aug 27, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> Au contraire.... they work even better when they're "*not* exploding".
> 
> [/pedant-mode]


Damn! Like a plonker, I actually went back and added the 'not' straight after posting because I thought I hadn't got it right the first time.

Proof indeed that I've got one of those rubbish multitasking brains: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/8219212.stm


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 27, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Peggle for the iPhone.
> 
> What a great time waster.  Stupidly simple yet very compelling. Often leaves you wondering if the level is hard or I was just unlucky.



I love that game, great fun!


----------



## editor (Aug 28, 2009)

The good news: Spotify and Facebook have finally been approved. The Facebook app looks particularly good and the approval of Spotify perhaps signifies a healthy change in direction for Apple. 
http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/27/spotify-for-iphone-gets-thumbs-up-from-apple-subscription-music/
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...y-hits-the-app-store-with-new-ui-goodness.ars

The bad news -they're at it again: http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009...developers-please-make-your-apps-less-useful/


----------



## teuchter (Aug 28, 2009)

There's talk of Spotify coming to Symbian too.


----------



## editor (Aug 28, 2009)

teuchter said:


> There's talk of Spotify coming to Symbian too.


An unofficial version appeared on Android but seeing as all of them only work with the paid subscription (£120/year), I can't see me signing up any time soon.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 28, 2009)

editor said:


> The good news: Spotify and Facebook have finally been approved. The Facebook app looks particularly good and the approval of Spotify perhaps signifies a healthy change in direction for Apple.
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/27/spotify-for-iphone-gets-thumbs-up-from-apple-subscription-music/
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...y-hits-the-app-store-with-new-ui-goodness.ars
> 
> The bad news -they're at it again: http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009...developers-please-make-your-apps-less-useful/



Free memory is never really free memory, down to the caching of apps for faster loading times and other memory techniques.  Its disingenuous to tell people otherwise, esp that having more free ram uses less battery life? What a load of bollox.

On Vista people complained that their free memory was all used up, but that was just superfetch filling it up with apps you used the most commonly.  Freeing memory is an instant process and DRAM has the fastest access time  so having it doing nothing is a waste of a powerful resource.


----------



## grit (Aug 28, 2009)

Sunray said:


> esp that having more free ram uses less battery life? What a load of bollox.



I didnt take that from the articles about the memory applications. It is correct to say that killing unwanted background processes will improve battery life.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 28, 2009)

editor said:


> The good news: Spotify and Facebook have finally been approved. The Facebook app looks particularly good and the approval of Spotify perhaps signifies a healthy change in direction for Apple.
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/27/spotify-for-iphone-gets-thumbs-up-from-apple-subscription-music/
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2...y-hits-the-app-store-with-new-ui-goodness.ars
> 
> /



The Facebook app update is excellent, runs a lot faster and has nice features too, like the new navigation. Great news about Spotify!


----------



## Sunray (Aug 28, 2009)

grit said:


> I didnt take that from the articles about the memory applications. It is correct to say that killing unwanted background processes will improve battery life.



No.  Not at all.  On what grounds do you base that understanding.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 28, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Peggle for the iPhone.
> 
> What a great time waster.  Stupidly simple yet very compelling. Often leaves you wondering if the level is hard or I was just unlucky.



I love it. Completed it twice.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 28, 2009)

grit said:


> I didnt take that from the articles about the memory applications. It is correct to say that killing unwanted background processes will improve battery life.


There are no background processes on the iphone, except the official apple ones. 'Freeing up' memory is pointless


----------



## grit (Aug 28, 2009)

Sunray said:


> No.  Not at all.  On what grounds do you base that understanding.



To run the thread takes juice, the more juice required for the chips the quicker the battery runs down, its pretty simple.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 28, 2009)

grit said:


> To run the thread takes juice, the more juice required for the chips the quicker the battery runs down, its pretty simple.


But the iphone is a one-app-at-a-time device

These memory-freeing apps make sense on WM or Symbian, but not on iphone.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 28, 2009)

Doesn't it still have threads open for Push Notifications on OS3?


----------



## grit (Aug 28, 2009)

Crispy said:


> But the iphone is a one-app-at-a-time device
> 
> These memory-freeing apps make sense on WM or Symbian, but not on iphone.



Jailbreak allows me to run background threads, also the push notifications stuff has to be running somewhere.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 28, 2009)

Aaaaaaah, jailbreak


----------



## Sunray (Aug 28, 2009)

grit said:


> To run the thread takes juice, the more juice required for the chips the quicker the battery runs down, its pretty simple.



A common misconception for people when it comes to loaded processes.  

The short answer to this is that background process cost 0 more power if they are not being used.  Why?

Most applications are event driven*, touching the screen, entering text etc.  They sit there waiting for input from the user.  They get their input by calling the OS.  The OS marks it down as waiting for input.  It will then never schedule up that process again until it gets input. The OS gets input messages all the time, if it sees one is for that waiting process, it will then unflag it and it gets some CPU time to process that event.

Whats more, if the OS has nothing to do it just executes the HALT instruction which puts it into a low power mode and essentially switches off till someone does something that causes it to wake up like a button press.

*Not all applications are like this, simulations like long range weather forecasting and games are application type that are not event driven.


----------



## editor (Aug 28, 2009)

I'm not convinced that there's legions of "exploding iPhones" across the globe, although I don't doubt it may have happened to a tiny minority of users - sell in the volumes that Apple have and there's always the chance of the odd technological whoopee cushion.

Apple have probably made things worse by trying to silence the people complaining, but I do like Engadget's wonderfully over the top illustration for the story:







http://www.engadget.com/2009/08/28/overheating-iphone-reports-exploding-all-over-france-apple-re/


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 28, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Doesn't it still have threads open for Push Notifications on OS3?



You can already cancel pushes via the settings.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 28, 2009)

grit said:


> Jailbreak allows me to run background threads, also the push notifications stuff has to be running somewhere.



Well, if it's jailbroken you don't have to worry do you?


----------



## Gromit (Aug 28, 2009)

Better would have been a picture of an islamic extremist with a load of iPhones strapped to his chest like a suicide bomber.

Or am I just sick?


----------



## grit (Aug 28, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Most applications are event driven*, touching the screen, entering text etc.  They sit there waiting for input from the user.  They get their input by calling the OS.  The OS marks it down as waiting for input.  It will then never schedule up that process again until it gets input. The OS gets input messages all the time, if it sees one is for that waiting process, it will then unflag it and it gets sme CPU time to process that event.



One of the most used applications on my iphone is a IM client. That has to maintain connections with several networks along with monitoring that I dont time out. All while it doesn't have input focus.

Edited to add: On the very bare bones level you are correct, I remember when learning threading how to see one class that spawns a few threads its really just stopping and starting all of them very quickly to give the impression of 3 separate threads, kinda like animaiton.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 28, 2009)

You can have an open TCP/IP connection and still have no CPU cycles.  Its open and closed by the OS.  The OS keeps the state and when it gets some data from the connection, it will schedule up the process to deal with that data.

The application just goes Read() on the open connection (an OS call) and goes into a blocking state waiting for data.  In this state the process is then suspended until it gets data, which is when the OS call returns.  Most of the time the application isn't actually running any code.  This is why the original Windows Mobile didn't give you the ability to kill application, Microsoft in their wisdom decided it wasn't really that useful because they can manage memory better than the user.  People liked the thought of 0's in their memory.


----------



## Random One (Aug 29, 2009)

Is my iPhone messed up?... the battery level keeps jumping around one minute it's 64% then it's 95%, like just now i turned the wifi on and it went from battery of 71% to 100%


----------



## Sunray (Sep 1, 2009)

Random One said:


> Is my iPhone messed up?... the battery level keeps jumping around one minute it's 64% then it's 95%, like just now i turned the wifi on and it went from battery of 71% to 100%



Try a hard reset, hold down the power and home till it powers off.  Mines never done that.  Could be the battery on its way out, its got a circuit that tells the CPU how charged it is when asked.


----------



## elbows (Sep 1, 2009)

I found this blog post about the vast difference in revenue for developers on the Android store vs iphone apps store to be rather interesting:

http://larvalabs.com/blog/iphone/android-market-sales/



> A good example is the well known game Trism, which sold over $250,000 in it’s first two months on the iPhone. On Android it has sold, to date, less than 500 copies. That’s $1,046 total earnings, max. How psyched are those guys that they ported a huge hit to Android and can’t even cover a party sub for the release dinner? By comparison, if you were an iPhone developer with a game in the #5 spot, you’d likely be earning around $3,500 a day (based on recent numbers from tap tap tap).



Ouch! 

I remain bemused that after several years, few corporations have managed to copy Apple's magic ingredients, they need to do better on all fronts to stand a chance of catching up, and yet in almost every area they manage to fail. I find myself resorting to wanky slogans Id previously associated only with marketing when I ponder concepts like 'the experience' and how it is that nobody else has come close despite several years of studying Apples winning formula. If Apple manage it again with a tablet then its just going to make everyone else seem even more useless, how can it be so hard to deliver a UI that is a pleasure to use with services that are largely pain-free, at least once someone else has shown how its done?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 1, 2009)

Bloody hell that's gonna put a few people off developing for android and probably means Palm will suffer to given they haven't the money or brand awareness to create a market big enough!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 1, 2009)

Indeed. That's a real shame. Despite being an iPhone fan, I still don't like Apple and it's disappointing that no-one is really competing on the consumer smart phone user experience front. 

Give me another choice, someone beat the iPhone please!


----------



## Gromit (Sep 1, 2009)

Possible conclusion?

iPhones are aimed at those who aren't afraid to spend money.

Most people that get an alternative do so to save money. Money saving type people don't splash out on aps but instead prefer to see if they can get it (or something like it) somewhere for free instead or not bother altogether.


----------



## elbows (Sep 1, 2009)

Yes I think that would be quite a part of it, along with the sheer number of iphones sold, the existing popularity of itunes, the ease of purchasing. Plus the overall satisfaction levels when using the iphone seem to lead many to use it for longer per day than seems the norm with smart phones overall.

Apples premium brand & market seems to have fared much better in the recession than I expected as well.

Still its probably silly of me to expect that any challengers would gain swift and sweeping victories, it seems the other players will have to be in it for the long haul to get anywhere.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 1, 2009)

Whats striking about this, even though its a huge corporation, some of the design decisions that Apple make are like a small start up company. I said before, I think its down to having a real techy at the helm that appreciates good idea and enjoys technology.  It might not be true, but I am always left with the impression that if you worked at Apple and had a great idea and told Steve Jobs and it was great, he'd give the green light to make something from it.  I think its all small independent teams working on stuff there.

Nokia and the entrenched mobile manufacturers seem to have locked themselves into a huge corporation type structures that has too much politics going on. Too much management that doesn't really know or understand technology.

All the big mobile phone manufacturers ignored the Apple threat on the basis that they didn't even make phones.  

If you think about it, at the next Apple press conference, Apple paused and went 'oh and here is a range of iPhones for all budgets', the iPhone mini if you will. How many of them will they sell?  How many would like an iPhone now and can't afford it.  How many can't actually afford it but have one?  Shit loads of them everywhere now.  Check out the white head phones for the tell tale mic/button.

They did this before, the iPod was a premium product which created a demand, people like premium products.  Then they released a range of them for all budgets to satisfy the demand at all levels.   It diluted the iPod to a commodity product but if you want a music player there might be choice but there is only one to give as a present.

Expect the range of iPhones in the near future.

Apple have made Nokia look like an also-ran.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 2, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Whats striking about this, even though its a huge corporation, some of the design decisions that Apple make are like a small start up company. I said before, I think its down to having a real techy at the helm that appreciates good idea and enjoys technology.  It might not be true, but I am always left with the impression that if you worked at Apple and had a great idea and told Steve Jobs and it was great, he'd give the green light to make something from it.  I think its all small independent teams working on stuff there.
> 
> Nokia and the entrenched mobile manufacturers seem to have locked themselves into a huge corporation type structures that has too much politics going on. Too much management that doesn't really know or understand technology.
> 
> ...



Interesting post, agree with much of it.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 2, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I said before, I think its down to having a real techy at the helm.



He isn't a REAL techy.

Real techies create product than only other techies and geeks can understand and use. They think and talk in tech when designing and can't easily translate that to device for a layman.

"What do you mean the end user wont know how to intergrate the bifibular conditz. All linux users know how to do that."

Steve Job's genius is in seeking simplicity wherever possible. Okay it works by typing in several different commands. Couldn't we just point at it instead. Well yeah we could. Well do it. Customers don't want to have to learn to use something, they just want it to be obvious.

The early batches of creative MP3 players may have been far superior to iPods in many ways but they scared off lot of people missing the geek gene.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 2, 2009)

Preeeeecisely. And that's what so many of apple's competitors still fail to realise or implement.


----------



## grit (Sep 2, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Steve Job's genius is in seeking simplicity wherever possible. Okay it works by typing in several different commands. Couldn't we just point at it instead. Well yeah we could. Well do it. Customers don't want to have to learn to use something, they just want it to be obvious.



On top of that, stories from people who have been unfortunate enough to be in meetings with him say that he is a total fucking headcase and demands perfection in everything. Apparently one of his key motivational tools is screaming at people calling them retards and generally just being a nasty fuck who people do anything they can not to be on the end of one of his famous tirades.

The end result is some very focused developers. Not sure I agree with the methods but who can argue the end product.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 2, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Apple have made Nokia look like an also-ran.



Though Nokia's sales dwarf those of Apple's.


----------



## tarannau (Sep 2, 2009)

Yep, but didn't their profits drop by something remarkable like 95% this year - making a tiny 55m off 9.3billion of revenue according to here:

http://www.computing.co.uk/computing/news/2240485/nokia-profit-falls-per-cent

Apple doesn't have to give a shit about marketshare in many ways - they're making hefty mark ups on every unit (40-50% according to some sources (approx double that of Blackberry) and that's without counting more than healthy ongoing sales from the app store. I don't think many in Cupertino are going to be concerned that they haven't managed to dominate the market with their only phone offering.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 3, 2009)

Great looking karting game for the iPhone/touch here. Very nice looking, good frame rate, just goes to show that the iPhone is a serious competitor as a mobile gaming device.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 3, 2009)

Gromit said:


> He isn't a REAL techy.
> 
> Real techies create product than only other techies and geeks can understand and use. They think and talk in tech when designing and can't easily translate that to device for a layman.
> 
> ...



No thats Dilbert.

Steve Jobs was part of teams that created real products that people used and also had 1st hand experience of seeing good and bad management of talent and where that ultimately lead.

Read all about him.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs

I love those Magnesium cubes.


----------



## editor (Sep 5, 2009)

tarannau said:


> Yep, but didn't their profits drop by something remarkable like 95% this year - making a tiny 55m off 9.3billion of revenue according to here:


Looks like they're fighting back, shifting two million N97s in three months and combined sales of the N97 and 5800 Xpress hitting 10 million in the last 10 months.



> Nokia currently has 1.1 billion customers globally using its devices.
> 
> Nokia chief executive Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo said: “We have a unique position in the smartphone market. Nokia is the undisputed leading player in the smartphones space.”



http://www.mobilenewscwp.co.uk/News/313619/n97_defies_critics_with_2m_sales.html


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2009)

The public might love 'em but perhaps the iPhone isn't such great news for network operators as they first thought?



> iPhone makes worldwide loss, says report
> 
> Apple's iPhone is not the profit generating must-have gadget assumed by the mobile phone companies, according to new research, but is in fact turning into a worldwide loss-leader...
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Sep 7, 2009)

Thats not true any more.

Telefonica has reported something like a 17% growth this year.  They put it down to being the 'home of the smart phone'




			
				Telefonica Quarterly Press release said:
			
		

> "In the first six months of 2009, we added 1.5 million customers, bringing Telefónica Europe's total base to 47.6 million. Telefónica has further underlined its position as the 'home of the smartphone' with the recent signing of the Palm Pre exclusive across Europe to add to its already impressive portfolio of high-end mobile devices.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2009)

Is anyone really going to shed a tear for network operators?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 7, 2009)

Nope, they're hardly in it for our benefit, are they?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 7, 2009)

Classic timewasting games appearing on the iPhone #x: *Nethack*. And free, too. Not particularly whizzbang in terms of UI (and with a couple of very minor bugs) but it's the whole damn thing!

Imaginatively called "iNethack" in the app store.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 7, 2009)

Has anyone else jailbroken?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 7, 2009)

I've not seen a single reason why I'd expend the effort, to be honest.


----------



## g force (Sep 7, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Thats not true any more.
> 
> Telefonica has reported something like a 17% growth this year.  They put it down to being the 'home of the smart phone'



BS....more liek it's down to their ridiculous cost of broadband in Spain!!!


----------



## g force (Sep 7, 2009)

editor said:


> The public might love 'em but perhaps the iPhone isn't such great news for network operators as they first thought?



Perhaps they'd like to stop offering them on only one network then! I'd get an iphone on Vodafone in a flash.


----------



## ethel (Sep 7, 2009)

i has spotify


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> i has spotify


Thread here: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=301402


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 7, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Has anyone else jailbroken?



Yep. Worth it if you're a geek or if you want free apps. Not worth it if you're not a geek and have moral objections to free apps.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 7, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> I've not seen a single reason why I'd expend the effort, to be honest.



In jailbreaking? Free apps, allows you to configure it loads more, etc. Not sure why you wouldn't expend the effort to be honest.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 7, 2009)

O2 say they are doing quite nicely out of the iPhone thank you.

Which is a shame as I'd rather them give up on it and other networks get to have a crack.


----------



## grit (Sep 7, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Has anyone else jailbroken?



Yup primarily to unlock it from o2, but some of the other hacks it installs are pretty cool.


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2009)

Gromit said:


> O2 say they are doing quite nicely out of the iPhone thank you.
> 
> Which is a shame as I'd rather them give up on it and other networks get to have a crack.


Looks like they're about to lose their exclusive 3G deal, perhaps as soon as Oct 9th (maybe that's why they outbid rivals to snag the Palm Pre)?

http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/05/o2_iphone_exclusive_end/

http://business.scotsman.com/businesstechnology/O2-facing-loss-of-iPhone.5529211.jp


----------



## grit (Sep 7, 2009)

editor said:


> Looks like they're about to lose their exclusive 3G deal, perhaps as soon as Oct 9th (maybe that's why they outbid rivals to snag the Palm Pre)?
> 
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/05/o2_iphone_exclusive_end/
> 
> http://business.scotsman.com/businesstechnology/O2-facing-loss-of-iPhone.5529211.jp



Its just that the original exclusivity agreement had a two year renewal clause to allow apple/O2 review the partnership.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 7, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> In jailbreaking? Free apps, allows you to configure it loads more, etc. Not sure why you wouldn't expend the effort to be honest.



All the apps I curently have are free, though, I haven't paid for any. I'm not bothered about being able to configure it more, either. Not that I can think of, anyway.

I'm of the geek variety, but it's working fine as it is as far as I've needed it to, anyway.


----------



## grit (Sep 7, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> I'm of the geek variety, but it's working fine as it is as far as I've needed it to, anyway.



If you are a geek, then you are duty bound to hack your consumer electronics


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 7, 2009)

I've got better things to do. I know, I lose geek points, and my status is threatened.


----------



## g force (Sep 7, 2009)

editor said:


> Looks like they're about to lose their exclusive 3G deal, perhaps as soon as Oct 9th (maybe that's why they outbid rivals to snag the Palm Pre)?
> 
> http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/08/05/o2_iphone_exclusive_end/
> 
> http://business.scotsman.com/businesstechnology/O2-facing-loss-of-iPhone.5529211.jp



Hope so....be happy with either of those network options.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 7, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> All the apps I curently have are free, though, I haven't paid for any. I'm not bothered about being able to configure it more, either. Not that I can think of, anyway.
> 
> I'm of the geek variety, but it's working fine as it is as far as I've needed it to, anyway.



That's fair enough. I'm 'evaluating' quite a few of the paid apps at the moment.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> i has spotify



Excellent! I'm seriously tempted to up to a premium account..:

How have you found it so far?


----------



## jæd (Sep 7, 2009)

BanjoStep said:


> That's fair enough. I'm 'evaluating' quite a few of the paid apps at the moment.



So when you posted:



BanjoStep said:


> Yep. Worth it if you're a geek or if you want free apps. Not worth it if you're not a geek and have moral objections to free apps.



You meant:



BanjoStep said:


> Yep. Worth it if you're a geek or if you want free apps. Not worth it if you're not a geek and have moral objections to "warez".


----------



## Kanda (Sep 7, 2009)

C64 Emulator on iPhone... http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/06...emulator-approved-and-available-on-app-store/


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 7, 2009)

jæd said:


> So when you posted:
> 
> 
> 
> You meant:



Well... yeah.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 7, 2009)

grit said:


> Its just that the original exclusivity agreement had a two year renewal clause to allow apple/O2 review the partnership.



Its got the  exclusive on the 3GS so it will be for the 8GB 3G only as long as Apple continue to make it.

Not that its a dog end of a phone or anything.  Its still a great phone and most will be very happy with it if they got it.


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2009)

Kanda said:


> C64 Emulator on iPhone... http://www.macrumors.com/2009/09/06...emulator-approved-and-available-on-app-store/


C64 Emulator now banned off the iPhone.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/08/apple-pulls-c64-app-after-manomio-shenanigans-revealed/


----------



## Structaural (Sep 8, 2009)

What's a good RSS reader?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2009)

Bloglines.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 8, 2009)

I couldn't find that - did you mean Byline KE?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2009)

Ah yeah it aint an app, you log on via the web...


----------



## 6_6 (Sep 8, 2009)

i'm trying one at the moment.
recommend me some cool free apps please


----------



## Structaural (Sep 8, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ah yeah it aint an app, you log on via the web...



No worries - went with NetNewsWire for now (it's free anyway), need to find a fucking job...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2009)

No probs.

Anyway just been checking out the new official Flickr app, very cool. Might tempt me to start using it again...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2009)

What time (UK) is the event today?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 9, 2009)

6pm


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2009)

Excellent, anyone care to speculate?


----------



## Structaural (Sep 9, 2009)

ipod, ipods, garageband, ipods *yawn*


----------



## spacemonkey (Sep 9, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What time (UK) is the event today?



What event?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 9, 2009)

Price drops for all existing ipods already been announced, so looks like yet ore new ipods. yawn.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2009)

Structaural said:


> ipod, ipods, garageband, ipods *yawn*


That's not the right attitude. It should be fawn! gasp! cheer! high five! 

I wonder if Lord Jobs will appear for the adoring masses?

_Edit to add:_ O2 says that the 3G message had nothing to do with Spotify app:
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...message-nothing-to-do-with-spotify-app-634039


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2009)

cybershot said:


> Price drops for all existing ipods already been announced, so looks like yet ore new ipods. yawn.



They have?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2009)

Steve is back, eta on whooping and high giving 5 minutes.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 9, 2009)

this thread for iphone
this thread for other apple news


----------



## Random One (Sep 13, 2009)

Has anyone else had problems since the 3.1 update?
After updating some of my music albums seem to have multiplied themselves on the phone. When i look at the music in iTunes there is only one copy of the album though. As far as i can tell the albums which have been multiplied are those with songs with varying artist listings. For example if i had an album called 'apple' with songs by artists 'a,b and c' the album appears 3 times in my album listings but each one shows all tracks frm the album.

If i change the artist for the alb to a single person then the problem seems to resolve. It's very annoying. Just wondered if anyone else jad similar problems or if it's just my poor iPhone  (have reported it to the apple folks)


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 13, 2009)

Yeah, noticed the same thing.

Annoying if you want to play an album that has guest artists on some tracks as they appear as different albums.


----------



## Random One (Sep 13, 2009)

It is damn annoying because i think it also takes up more memory because when i tried to update some apps it kept telling me i didnt have enough memory even though i only have abt 5gig of music on the phone. I hope they fix it soon


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2009)

Been trying Simplenote today - http://www.simplenoteapp.com/ - as recommended by Gruber and others. It's the only auto-syncing notepad app I've seen and it really does do what it sets out to, let you take text notes on the phone and also edit them via web app. It's also only £1.19 unlike, say, Writeroom which is more and does less.


----------



## jæd (Sep 14, 2009)

Random One said:


> Has anyone else had problems since the 3.1 update?
> After updating some of my music albums seem to have multiplied themselves on the phone. When i look at the music in iTunes there is only one copy of the album though. As far as i can tell the albums which have been multiplied are those with songs with varying artist listings. For example if i had an album called 'apple' with songs by artists 'a,b and c' the album appears 3 times in my album listings but each one shows all tracks frm the album.
> 
> If i change the artist for the alb to a single person then the problem seems to resolve. It's very annoying. Just wondered if anyone else jad similar problems or if it's just my poor iPhone  (have reported it to the apple folks)



You need to set the Album Artist to "Various" and the Is Part of Compilation to "Yes"


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 14, 2009)

Grrrr, shortened keypad lock. I want it on, but I want it longer than 15 minutes.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 14, 2009)

jæd said:


> You need to set the Album Artist to "Various" and the Is Part of Compilation to "Yes"


But it's not a compilation. And it's not a "Various Artists".
This is something that has changed in 3.1. Worked fine before.


----------



## jæd (Sep 14, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> But it's not a compilation. And it's not a "Various Artists".
> This is something that has changed in 3.1. Worked fine before.



Experimenting shows that you just need the Album Artist set.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 14, 2009)

jæd said:


> Experimenting shows that you just need the Album Artist set.


That's annoying, means having to re-sync all those albums...


----------



## Random One (Sep 14, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> That's annoying, means having to re-sync all those albums...



Yeah that is fucking annoying and going to take an age! surely apple will release a bug fix update soon enough


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2009)

Looks like the Spotify app is failing to impress to freeloading users: 





> When the iPhone version of Spotify hit the App Store last week, we were amazed by the reaction.
> 
> Instead of endless posts singing the praises of mobile music, the reviews were largely negative: at the time of writing, 5,985 reviews of 9,164 are one-star reviews.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 15, 2009)

Yeah there's an amusing review war going on idiots being cussed for not reading the app description properly before posting stupid 'reviews'.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 15, 2009)

Like the new iTunes.  You can move your apps about and delete them on there rather than just on the iPhone.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 16, 2009)

Got the Griffin car window holder and car charger for the iPhone.  Also bough the CoPilot Sat nav software, all for less than TomTom are charging for their software.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2009)

Blimey. The Apple vs Google row over the Google Voice app keeps on giving: 

Google: Apple lied to FCC over Google Voice App
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/27266/google-claims-apple-truth-fcc


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2009)

editor said:


> Blimey. The Apple vs Google row over the Google Voice app keeps on giving:
> 
> Google: Apple lied to FCC over Google Voice App
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/27266/google-claims-apple-truth-fcc





Sunray said:


> Got the Griffin car window holder and car charger for the iPhone. Also bough the CoPilot Sat nav software, all for less than TomTom are charging for their software.


Delightfully reviewed here!
http://www.wirefresh.com/review-windowseat-car-mount-for-iphone-ipod-touch/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Like the new iTunes.  You can move your apps about and delete them on there rather than just on the iPhone.



Did you get any problems with your iPhone after installing 3.1?


----------



## themonkeyman (Sep 21, 2009)

I was going to start a new thread, but I think its probably better to put it in here.

Jailbreak or not ??  hmmmm


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 21, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Did you get any problems with your iPhone after installing 3.1?



*grumbles about keypad lock times*


----------



## sim667 (Sep 21, 2009)

themonkeyman said:


> I was going to start a new thread, but I think its probably better to put it in here.
> 
> Jailbreak or not ??  hmmmm



Are u on a 3gs or a 3g? And on 3.1? or 3.0.1

Im on a 3g 3.0.1 and am gonna update after work tonight, users on the 3gs on 3.1 cannot do it yet, although the dev team are working on a 3.1 unlock for 3gs using redsn0w.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> *grumbles about keypad lock times*



Updated my iPhone over the weekend, so far haven't had the crap some people have had. It did randomly reset itself for the first time though yesterday...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 21, 2009)

I've updated it with no problems at all, barring that stupid one.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 21, 2009)

No probs here either. It's improved my wifi connectivity.


----------



## themonkeyman (Sep 22, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Are u on a 3gs or a 3g? And on 3.1? or 3.0.1
> 
> Im on a 3g 3.0.1 and am gonna update after work tonight, users on the 3gs on 3.1 cannot do it yet, although the dev team are working on a 3.1 unlock for 3gs using redsn0w.



yeah I downgraded to 3.0 and then jailbroke, pretty good, but quite gimmicky.  I do love the 5 icon dock though.  Still not 100% convinced it is the way to go especially as I don't really want to be using cracked apps (installous) on it.

What does anyone else think ?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 22, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Did you get any problems with your iPhone after installing 3.1?



Not noticed any.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 22, 2009)

yeah i unjailbroke....... it was pissing me off.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2009)

Our very own Sunray has posted up a very detailed review of the CoPolit satnav software for the iPhone here:
http://www.wirefresh.com/copilot-live-8-sat-nav-for-iphone-full-review/


----------



## themonkeyman (Sep 23, 2009)

sim667 said:


> yeah i unjailbroke....... it was pissing me off.



i'm starting to think about it, I do really like the 5 item dock though, but apart from that what else is there really.  Ok the customizations are nice, but maybe Apple would bring something out to do that in the future.

Any problems with 3.1 anyone ?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 23, 2009)

themonkeyman said:


> i'm starting to think about it, I do really like the 5 item dock though, but apart from that what else is there really.  Ok the customizations are nice, but maybe Apple would bring something out to do that in the future.
> 
> Any problems with 3.1 anyone ?



Problems with 3.1 and jailbreaking? Yeah, it's not possible yet.


----------



## themonkeyman (Sep 23, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Problems with 3.1 and jailbreaking? Yeah, it's not possible yet.



no, not 3.1 with Jailbreak, 3.1 with standard iPhone, any problems  ?


----------



## Structaural (Sep 23, 2009)

themonkeyman said:


> i'm starting to think about it, I do really like the 5 item dock though, but apart from that what else is there really.  Ok the customizations are nice, but maybe Apple would bring something out to do that in the future.
> 
> Any problems with 3.1 anyone ?



I was thinking of jailbreaking for the backgrounding - anyone use that effectively?


----------



## themonkeyman (Sep 23, 2009)

I have got it but I haven't used it much, no.  I have got SBsettings, that's pretty cool.  And I reckon i will get some use out of vnc lite (control PC from iPhone) and veency (control iphone from PC)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2009)

Push email now available from Gmail on your iPhone (without need of an app).



> *Gmail sync.*  Get your Gmail pushed directly to your iPhone. Your inbox is always up to date no matter where you are, or what you're doing.
> 
> *Synchronize your contacts.* Get your Google contacts quickly and easily to your iPhone. With Sync, you can have access to your address book at anytime and place that you need it.
> 
> *Get calendar alerts.* Using your iPhone's native calendar, you can now access multiple Google calendars, and be alerted for upcoming appointments with sound or vibration.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 24, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Push email now available from Gmail on your iPhone (without need of an app).



Doesn't work if you already have an MS Exchange Activesync on your phone (like I do for my work email)


----------



## jæd (Sep 24, 2009)

3.1 seems fine...

But more importantly, official Porn Star apps in the App Store. Remember, if you're under 18 your not allowed to install these...! http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10359678-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2009)

T-a-c-k-y.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2009)

jæd said:


> 3.1 seems fine...
> 
> But more importantly, official Porn Star apps in the App Store. Remember, if you're under 18 your not allowed to install these...! http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-10359678-37.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20



Seriously anyone who needs porn on the move has real problems...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Doesn't work if you already have an MS Exchange Activesync on your phone (like I do for my work email)



That's true but I imagine there's a lot of Gmail users who don't have the luck of having an iPhone provided by work.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 24, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's true but I imagine there's a lot of Gmail users who don't have the luck of having an iPhone provided by work.



Mine isn't provided by work  It's my own.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Mine isn't provided by work  It's my own.



Seriously? But if you need your work emails on the go shouldn't work be paying for it?


----------



## Kanda (Sep 24, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Seriously? But if you need your work emails on the go shouldn't work be paying for it?



They'd give me a Blackberry (or I would give myself a Blackberry as I run the system).. and I don't want one.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2009)

Turns out the TomTom kit will cost £99 and you have to buy the app for £79 on top. What a fucking rip off! You can get a dedicated TomTom sat nav for less than that!


----------



## Kanda (Sep 25, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Turns out the TomTom kit will cost £99 and you have to buy the app for £79 on top. What a fucking rip off! You can get a dedicated TomTom sat nav for less than that!



Which you'll leave in the car to be knicked


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 25, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Turns out the TomTom kit will cost £99 and you have to buy the app for £79 on top. What a fucking rip off! You can get a dedicated TomTom sat nav for less than that!



I torrented it, then got a £5 mount of ebay and a £4 charger. 

WinMo ain't always that crap.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 25, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Turns out the TomTom kit will cost £99 and you have to buy the app for £79 on top. What a fucking rip off! You can get a dedicated TomTom sat nav for less than that!



20 for the Window thingy from Griffin, 16 for the charger
26 for CoPilot, 62 quid total.  I am pretty happy with the CoPilot software.  Its not perfect but it does the job and does it pretty well. 

The TomTom software is getting less than stellar reviews from on iTunes, mainly because its not as good as the dedicated TomTom gadgets.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 25, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> I torrented it, then got a £5 mount of ebay and a £4 charger.
> 
> WinMo ain't always that crap.



I've done exactly the same with my iPhone. TomTom edging it slightly for me, but maybe 'cos I'm used to it. CoPilot lane guide is good.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2009)

The iPhone 3G/3GS is coming to Orange later this year.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/sep/28/iphone-orange


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2009)

editor said:


> The iPhone 3G/3GS is coming to Orange later this year.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/sep/28/iphone-orange



Interesting that they got the 3GS as well.

I'm still glad I managed to ditch Orange 6 months into my contract and hop on over to O2. Orange Wednesdays is good, but other than that it's a pretty poor network in comparison; at least when it comes to signal in the places I spend time in, namely Farringdon and South East London.


----------



## gabi (Sep 28, 2009)

To save me the trouble of reading this entire thread, can someone please let me know if a) an iphone can be unlocked and b) if i can just put my existing pay-as-you go sim card into it..

I've lost my ipod and have this morning managed to spill pineapple juice all over my fucking phone 

So. I figure I might as well just get a phone with decent mp3 capability. I get paid tomorrow


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 28, 2009)

I belive that you lose some features like visual voicemail, but it can be done.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2009)

Oh dear. Must have taken some balls to film it in the Apple Store though (unless the staff were in on it).

http://gizmodo.com/5368951/i-fell-in-love-at-the-apple-store-is-destined-to-become-a-fanboy-classic


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> I belive that you lose some features like visual voicemail, but it can be done.



It can be done, but not with software version 3.1 yet. 3.0 isn't a problem though. You'll need to jailbreak and unlock your iPhone first. Dead easy.

And as GS says, you'll lose visual voicemail, but apart from that it's all good.


----------



## ethel (Sep 28, 2009)

why not move to PAYG on o2?


----------



## gabi (Sep 28, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> why not move to PAYG on o2?



I've had my virgin mobile number for 10 years. not keen to lose it.

chris, 'jailbreak', 'software version 3.0' - can you explain further? I'm not technical at all...


----------



## ethel (Sep 28, 2009)

can't you port it to o2?


----------



## gabi (Sep 28, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> can't you port it to o2?



Erm. What does port mean?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2009)

gabi said:


> I've had my virgin mobile number for 10 years. not keen to lose it.
> 
> chris, 'jailbreak', 'software version 3.0' - can you explain further? I'm not technical at all...



You might wanna get someone to do it for you then. It's easy for a geek, but would probably be a little nerve wracking if you're not that way inclined.

Google 'How to jailbreak iPhone 3.0' and you'll see plenty of step by step guides.


----------



## ethel (Sep 28, 2009)

gabi said:


> Erm. What does port mean?



phone virgin and ask them for a PAC code. phone o2 and give them the PAC code. your number will be moved to o2. i'm pretty sure it works with PAYG numbers but you should check first.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 28, 2009)

editor said:


> The iPhone 3G/3GS is coming to Orange later this year.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/sep/28/iphone-orange





ChrisFilter said:


> Interesting that they got the 3GS as well.
> 
> I'm still glad I managed to ditch Orange 6 months into my contract and hop on over to O2. Orange Wednesdays is good, but other than that it's a pretty poor network in comparison; at least when it comes to signal in the places I spend time in, namely Farringdon and South East London.



Orange's data network is meant to be far superior to O2's. I'm certainly considering the switch. My Internet is next to useless anywhere there is a large gathering of people such as a festival or Footy match.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 28, 2009)

My contract with T-mobile is up next June - surely I should legally be able to unlock my iPhone after that and switch to any carrier. Anyone know anything about this?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 28, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Orange's data network is meant to be far superior to O2's. I'm certainly considering the switch. My Internet is next to useless anywhere there is a large gathering of people such as a festival or Footy match.



This may please you then.



> Well well, turns out rumors sometimes do come true. The widely speculated end to O2's exclusivity of the iPhone is now upon us and Orange is the first competitor to throw its hat into the ring. The company has not yet released tariff pricing, but there's a tantalizingly small release window, as availability is promised "later this year." At least there's finally some competition when it comes to the iPhone in the UK, and we can also probably look forward to T-Mobile joining in on the fun. Let the price war begin!



Engadget


----------



## Sunray (Sep 28, 2009)

I believe this will be for the 3G only for as long as Apple continue make it.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 28, 2009)

Nothing in the world would ever persuade me to be an Orange customer ever again.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I believe this will be for the 3G only for as long as Apple continue make it.



Nope, 3GS as well.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Orange's data network is meant to be far superior to O2's. I'm certainly considering the switch. My Internet is next to useless anywhere there is a large gathering of people such as a festival or Footy match.



Well, I heard the same, but this certainly isn't the case where I spend my time. I barely get voice signal at home with Orange. Lounge only.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 28, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Nope, 3GS as well.



Oh yes so they are

https://interest.orange.co.uk/default.aspx


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2009)

Editor's link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2009/sep/28/iphone-orange


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 28, 2009)

Great news! The more operators that can sell the 3GS the better...


----------



## Gromit (Sep 28, 2009)

I should also add that Orange's cinema perk is a lot more useful to me than O2's perks which are very Londoncentric. 

O2 arena and Arsenal based.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 29, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Great news! The more operators that can sell the 3GS the better...



Indeed.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/6241786/Vodafone-will-sell-the-iPhone-in-the-UK.html



> Opening up the phone to a third operator will almost certainly result in a price war that will see more than £100 knocked off the price of the iPhone.



I know where I'm going unless O2 do something about their upgrade prices...


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Great news! The more operators that can sell the 3GS the better...


Good news for the Palm Pre too as O2 have far more incentive to push the handset now.


----------



## g force (Sep 29, 2009)

Great news...I need a new phone in December so hopefully they'll plenty of tantalising offers. Can't see Orange being that much cheaper per month than 02 but they have the advantage of on boarding the TMobile network over the coming 18 months which should boost signal coverage where it's poor.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 29, 2009)

I want to go back to the moment the iPhone was release.

Who thinks the iPhone should have been compared to PDA?
Who thinks the iPhone should have been compared to existing candy bar phone?  

I was thinking about this a bit and everyone who was at it at the start for missing all these features other PDA's had, these people were clearly comparing it to existing PDA's.  I actually think it should have be compared to standard candy bar phones.

I didn't have a PDA, didn't really want one and while this I suppose is could be considered a PDA, I don't think of it as such and certainly don't use it as such.  

This is the reason for its popularity.  However this was positioned by Apple, it struck a chord with people who realised that a mobile phone could be better at being a phone, very likely candy bar phone owners.  Its still does and these people are willing to put their money where their mouth is to get one of these phones.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> Indeed.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/6241786/Vodafone-will-sell-the-iPhone-in-the-UK.html
> 
> ...



Yep even better news! I reckon I might move to Orange/T Mobile once my contracts up if I want another iPhone. O2's 3g coverage is terrible, one second it's great then it's edge, then it's nothing then it's great again. All that can happen in the space of a few square feet!



editor said:


> Good news for the Palm Pre too as O2 have far more incentive to push the handset now.



Indeed, I reckon there's some very happy Palm people about this week.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2009)

Sunray said:


> This is the reason for its popularity.  However this was positioned by Apple, it struck a chord with people who realised that a mobile phone could be better at being a phone, very likely candy bar phone owners.  Its still does and these people are willing to put their money where their mouth is to get one of these phones.


It also came at just the right time, when a lot of people were ready to jump up to a more capable handset as their lives became more involved with email/web etc (and the networks could handle the data traffic).


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2009)

Oh, and Vodafone's getting the iPhone too.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/6241786/Vodafone-will-sell-the-iPhone-in-the-UK.html


----------



## g force (Sep 29, 2009)

editor said:


> Oh, and Vodafone's getting the iPhone too.
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/6241786/Vodafone-will-sell-the-iPhone-in-the-UK.html



Okay that's even better news as I can keep on the same network!!! Potentially bad news for BlackBerry which Voda pushed very hard (although I appreciate they are sold in very different ways).

Also not such great news for 02 now - wonder what their share price will do


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 29, 2009)

editor said:


> Oh, and Vodafone's getting the iPhone too.
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/6241786/Vodafone-will-sell-the-iPhone-in-the-UK.html



Posted that earlier.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> Posted that earlier.


You did, but you didn't actually say that Vodafone were getting the iPhone - you just posted a link.


----------



## WWWeed (Sep 29, 2009)

editor said:


> Oh, and Vodafone's getting the iPhone too.
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/6241786/Vodafone-will-sell-the-iPhone-in-the-UK.html





> The announcement follows yesterday's news that rival Orange will break O2's exclusive hold over Apple's wonder gadget. But Orange has a crucial advantage over Vodafone, as it'll start selling the Iphone before Christmas.


http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1556620/vodafone-iphone


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 29, 2009)

editor said:


> You did, but you didn't actually say that Vodafone were getting the iPhone - you just posted a link.



Ooops. 

Nevertheless, I think my choice of next handset/operator combo is made.


----------



## jasoon (Sep 29, 2009)

Hmm fancy an iphone 3g, my current phone contract with o2 expires end of nov so I can upgrade from end of this month...dunno whether to just get the iphone on o2 end of this month, or wait and see what the orange/t-mobile tarrifs and connectivity is like


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 29, 2009)

Why not wait and in the mean time move to a sim only contract? Should save you at least £10 a month and you can cancel with a months notice. Just give 02 and ask what packages they have available.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2009)

jasoon said:


> Hmm fancy an iphone 3g, my current phone contract with o2 expires end of nov so I can upgrade from end of this month...dunno whether to just get the iphone on o2 end of this month, or wait and see what the orange/t-mobile tarrifs and connectivity is like



I'd seriously suggest waiting. Your contract runs out around the time the new tariffs go live or so it would seem.


----------



## jasoon (Sep 29, 2009)

Ye would be sensible to wait, though have had excellent service from o2 and no fuck ups.  Orange have greater 3g connectivity than o2, but people complain about poor 3g orange connections, why would this be?  And has the t-mobile merger happened yet, as that would probably seal it.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 29, 2009)

I can upgrade 30th December. 

Debating waiting till next summer in the hopes of another generation of iPhones being released. But not sure how likely that's senario is.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 29, 2009)

jasoon said:


> Ye would be sensible to wait, though have had excellent service from o2 and no fuck ups.  Orange have greater 3g connectivity than o2, but people complain about poor 3g orange connections, why would this be?



'cos even with 99% coverage, you can be in one of the 1% no coverage areas.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 29, 2009)

jasoon said:


> Ye would be sensible to wait, though have had excellent service from o2 and no fuck ups.  Orange have greater 3g connectivity than o2, but people complain about poor 3g orange connections, why would this be?  And has the t-mobile merger happened yet, as that would probably seal it.



I think its going to be a year till the networks are properly merged.

One thing I've noticed since I moved to Orange last year is that a lot areas I visit have been upgraded to HSDPA, so they are obviously investing heavily.

However as ChrisFilter mentioned this no help if you are in one of the areas that has no coverage.

I've found customer service to be reasonable, but then I moved from 3 so connecting to a UK call center is a massive bonus!


----------



## Sunray (Sep 29, 2009)

Gromit said:


> I can upgrade 30th December.
> 
> Debating waiting till next summer in the hopes of another generation of iPhones being released. But not sure how likely that's senario is.



On past performance on this and the iPod, chances are good. I expect that there will be a range of iPhones including a range of colours perhaps.  Just like they did on the iPod.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 29, 2009)

This is a great time to have a PAYG iPhone. I can tell O2 to piss off any time I like if there are better PAYG tariffs on another network.


----------



## mhwfc (Sep 30, 2009)

jasoon said:


> Ye would be sensible to wait, though have had excellent service from o2 and no fuck ups.  Orange have greater 3g connectivity than o2, but people complain about poor 3g orange connections, why would this be?  And has the t-mobile merger happened yet, as that would probably seal it.



Even if you decide to stay with O2 it wouldn't do any harm to call them up once Orange and Voda are selling the iPhone and play the old "I want to cancel" card, now they have competion for the iPhone there may be decent retention deals avaliable.

3G coverage depends a lot on what network's masts are near you, as a rule 3's masts cover the widest area of the UK, then Orange, then T Mobile, then Vodafone with O2 bringing up the rear. 

In addition the number of people on a particular network in a particular cell can affect your ability to connect to a network particularly on 3G, which often seems to occur where a lot of people are concentrated in a certain area, such as at festivals or sporting events, for example in my experience it is impossible to connect to the internet on O2 around Watford before, during and after their home games, and O2's 3G network seems to just give up with the display on the iPhone next to the signal meter giving a "o" which means a 2G signal is being used as 3G is unavaliable. The rest of the time 3G coverage around the town is perfectly adequate. 

However I have previously got very decent 3G+ coverage on Voda when there's a game on, so presumably in this particular area Voda have more network capacity.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 30, 2009)

My contract for the 3G was up on Dec 24th.. I'va had a 3gs for a month or so, they don't stick to contracts...


----------



## mhwfc (Sep 30, 2009)

Sunray said:


> On past performance on this and the iPod, chances are good. I expect that there will be a range of iPhones including a range of colours perhaps.  Just like they did on the iPod.



Apple seem to have got into the routine of releasing new iPhone models every year in June.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 30, 2009)

mhwfc said:


> Apple seem to have got into the routine of releasing new iPhone models every year in June.



I expect more than yearly at some point.  The 3GS was barely an upgrade.  They did with the iPod.  The next keynote at the Apple dev conference will be given by Steve Jobs.  Expect that to be as explosive as he can make it. 

It will be 3 years since they released a new product, this is how long the iPhone took to create.


----------



## g force (Sep 30, 2009)

More likely the iphone will receive cosmetic treatment (colour options perhaps?) than a big upgrade....not to repeat the oft-rumored but it does seem that a tablet touch device is next out of the door.  Not point in a 4G iPhone yet when the infrastructure isn't really there to properly support it.

Now the 02 exclusivity is done iPhone should get much bigger penetration then a year down the line with more users, Xmas 2010, a new iPhone may come out. A lot also depends on if Verizon gets the iPhone in the US - anyone know when AT&T's exclusivity deal comes to a end?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 30, 2009)

This tablet thing seems to have increasingly strong legs at the moment. I'm not convinced that what I've heard is a *good idea* - a big iPhone rather than a small Mac - but then again, what I've heard is just unsourced rumour anyway.

I don't think anything radical will happen to the iPhone hardware from now on, just lighter, thinner, better battery, improvements in general. Nothing to hang around waiting for unless it's just about to be released.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 30, 2009)

g force said:


> More likely the iphone will receive cosmetic treatment (colour options perhaps?) than a big upgrade....not to repeat the oft-rumored but it does seem that a tablet touch device is next out of the door.  Not point in a 4G iPhone yet when the infrastructure isn't really there to properly support it.
> 
> Now the 02 exclusivity is done iPhone should get much bigger penetration then a year down the line with more users, Xmas 2010, a new iPhone may come out. A lot also depends on if Verizon gets the iPhone in the US - anyone know when AT&T's exclusivity deal comes to a end?



I think it will be the screen, AMOLED perhaps and CPU upgrades. Apple bought a company that specialised in custom ARM configurations, I've yet to see anything come from that purchase but its the sort of thing that can take years.

A version that uses ethanol would be the single thing that made it the most useful phone in the world.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 30, 2009)

Maybe they will bring out a new version that can do revolutionary stuff like running several applications at the same time.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 30, 2009)

I'm guessing that they'll hit the Eco green Market next with a version made entirely from hemp with solar panels on the back and a mini wind turbine stuck on the top


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2009)

Very interesting piece in Newsweek about how for most developers, the glory days of making a mint out of writing an iPhone app are fast vanishing. 



> Despite the high costs, Barnard was one of the lucky ones. Most apps take at least six months of full-time work and cost between $20,000 and $150,000 to develop, according to Forrester Research, which covers the tech industry. Apple rejects almost 60 percent of submissions at least once, often—according to programmers—with little more than infuriatingly vague or inconsistent explanations. Of the 85,000 that have been accepted, only a few hundred sellers have much chance of supporting full-time work. "It's a lot like the music business," says Barnard, who left a job in record engineering to develop applications full time. "Some indie bands make money, but most don't. Most are not the Michael Jacksons and Madonnas of the world."
> 
> But even App Store equivalents of the King of Pop and the Material Girl are struggling. In 2009, Ethan Nicholas left a job with Sun Microsystems after making $800,000 in just five months with his simple artillery game called iShoot. Today, the App Store icon from North Carolina is himself staring down the barrel of a gun, struggling to produce another hit game after iShoot was buried by competitors and copycats. "It's terrifying," says Nicholas, who says he is "not a millionaire" and describes iShoot's success as "pure luck." Despite spending eight months and more than six figures developing a second shooting game to be released this month, he says that he is still "very worried about being a one-hit wonder."
> 
> http://www.newsweek.com/id/216788/page/1


----------



## elbows (Oct 8, 2009)

Well thats the nature of the software business in general, I doubt it will be different on other platforms even if they take off in the way the iphone app store has.

I dont expect Apple to release iphone hardware updates more than once a year as that can be counterproductive in all sorts of ways, ranging from increased development costs for no real gain to people playing the 'wait for the new model before buying' game too much.

As for the tablet, I bought into those rumours a long time ago, always a pretty sure thing that Apple would want to use multi-touch in other form factors and try to reproduce the success of the app store. It will be very interesting to see how well they pull it off, as there are certainly challenges with larger form-factors. If they want to make ebooks the killer use of the new tablet device, resistance by the industry who are afraid of apple dominating the market in the way they have done with itunes for music could be an interesting factor.


----------



## elbows (Oct 8, 2009)

I should have been clearer that regarding software dev, I was talking about issues other than Apple's approval stuff, which is certainly an added woe and risk for developers compared to other platforms.


----------



## grit (Oct 8, 2009)

Any developer sticking to only one mobile platform is of course going to come into serious difficulty making a sustainable business.

The key is developing your apps for as many platforms as possible.


----------



## elbows (Oct 8, 2009)

Im not sure thats the key, it depends on the nature of the app and how much effort it takes to port to other platforms, along with how many sales are expected on those platforms.

There are other strategies, such as finding ways to get more money from existing customers (eg addon content which the iphone supports).

If I made $800,000 I would be very very happy, and would consider taking the money and running rather than expecting I could replicate that success again. Especially so with a game, and especially if the success came early on when there wasnt too much competition.

Personally Ive never tried to make money from apps, and most of my dreaming about working for myself has revolved around doing something on the web. Ive been preoccupied with tablets and multitouch, so if the apple tablet comes out and looks like a winner, well thats when I will actually put my time where my mouth is. The hope is that I will come up with something that at least gets a solid userbase, if not a lot of revenue (typical web 2.0), and I would be happy to sell out fairly cheaper to someone who wanted to take it further. I would not get carried away and let greed cause me to wait too long for a stupidly large offer to come along, timing is everything and the web is a fickle business. If I got lucky then I would not hang around to see how long the luck lasted. Alternatively if I failed to have a hit of any kind, I would at least hope that the experience has vastly improved my skills and makes me employable elsewhere in a job that doesnt suck as much as the day job Ive been doing for a decade now.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 10, 2009)

Metallica have released a fairly decent app for the iPhone. It costs 59p and lets you stream any of their live shows from 2004 onwards (which is when they started archiving them online), you can buy shows and download plenty of free ones straight to your iPhone. There's show notes, photos etc too. Very nice app, simple, yet useful. A must for all fans I reckon..!


----------



## kazza007 (Oct 11, 2009)

Has a specific Orange date been announced?  Will it be tarriffs announced in November, then a delay of 1-2 months before handsets are released?  Hope the handsets dont sell out due to over demand with Orange


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2009)

No idea, not heard anything new other than them getting before Christmas...


----------



## g force (Oct 12, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Metallica have released a fairly decent app for the iPhone. It costs 59p and lets you stream any of their live shows from 2004 onwards (which is when they started archiving them online), you can buy shows and download plenty of free ones straight to your iPhone. There's show notes, photos etc too. Very nice app, simple, yet useful. A must for all fans I reckon..!



Wow...in fairness to Metallica they have finally embraced getting content out to fans. A lot of bands should follow their lead.

As for the networks thing...Orange were very specific about it being "before Xmas" whereas Vodafone said "soon"! You'd think they'd be insane not to get it on their network at a peak buying time.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2009)

Oops! I was wrong about the d/l bit you can only stream but the plus side is you can stream stuff which you'd normally have to pay for from what I can tell.


----------



## Aiden (Oct 14, 2009)

editor said:


> Err, no. With a memory card slot users can easily add as much - or as little - memory as they like. No fuss, no bother and it can be as cheap as chips.
> 
> So, for example, users could carry around a few films on a 4GB stick for just a tenner or pack a couple of 8GB cards giving them 16Gb extra storage for just £32.  http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=777_6&products_id=102843
> 
> ...




Actually, you can get 16GB cards starting from as low as £22.99 for a class 4 and £25.75 for a class 6: http://www.gomemory.co.uk/sd-cards.html


----------



## teuchter (Oct 14, 2009)

Aiden said:


> Actually, you can get 16GB cards starting from as low as £22.99 for a class 4 and £25.75 for a class 6: http://www.gomemory.co.uk/sd-cards.html


----------



## The Octagon (Oct 14, 2009)

My 18 month contract with 3 has just run out and I'm sorely tempted by an iPhone, but is it worth waiting a few months to see if the Orange / Vodafone entry bring the tariffs / handsets down in price?


----------



## paolo (Oct 14, 2009)

The Octagon said:


> My 18 month contract with 3 has just run out and I'm sorely tempted by an iPhone, but is it worth waiting a few months to see if the Orange / Vodafone entry bring the tariffs / handsets down in price?



I'd certainly hang on if I was in your shoes.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 14, 2009)

The Octagon said:


> My 18 month contract with 3 has just run out and I'm sorely tempted by an iPhone, but is it worth waiting a few months to see if the Orange / Vodafone entry bring the tariffs / handsets down in price?



In the meantime get 3 to put you on to a sim only contract, which should save you a few quid a month.


----------



## derf (Oct 15, 2009)

I'm not much into iphone but I have to admit this is classy.

http://www.theage.com.au/digital-li...horne-to-design-iphone-app-20091014-gwio.html




> The app, called "I am safe", works like a panic button in that it is programmed to send recorded voice, SMS and email messages to a predetermined list of five family and friends once activated.
> 
> A Google Map is also provided to track the user's location.


----------



## alan2001 (Oct 15, 2009)

my iPhone is the best thing ever invented, end of. 

and i've spent a fortune on apps, but incrementally they cost so little, i don't even notice. win/win/ 

\7 pages


----------



## nick h. (Oct 16, 2009)

An easy way to jailbreak, according to some bloke at zdnet: http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=5037&tag=nl.e539


----------



## sim667 (Oct 20, 2009)

Anyone else use tapatalk?

Urban should be on it


----------



## grit (Oct 20, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Anyone else use tapatalk?
> 
> Urban should be on it



Just looked up tapatalk, Editor any chance of installing it?


----------



## Sunray (Oct 20, 2009)

Shame its client charged rather than a single fee for the server. I'd be tempted to offer to pay for it, but the other way round it's essentially making money out of urban so its harder to convince Ed to put the software on.


----------



## grit (Oct 20, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Shame its client charged rather than a single fee for the server. I'd be tempted to offer to pay for it, but the other way round it's essentially making money out of urban so its harder to convince Ed to put the software on.



Oh right its charged? I didnt look very closely. Fuck that so.


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2009)

I don't think  it would be in our best interests to start installing commercial, proprietary plug-ins for specific brands of phone for a whole bunch of reasons.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 20, 2009)

They're doing clients for Android and S60 too, but I agree that the $2.99 fee for the app is just one of several issues. 

I'm surprised no one else has developed a board reader app.


----------



## Structaural (Oct 20, 2009)

editor said:


> I don't think  it would be in our best interests to start installing commercial, proprietary plug-ins for specific brands of phone for a whole bunch of reasons.



I agree. Anyway with Urban's lack of adverts I can't think of a faster loading website than this one on smartphones.


----------



## grit (Oct 20, 2009)

Structaural said:


> I agree. Anyway with Urban's lack of adverts I can't think of a faster loading website than this one on smartphones.



From what I can tell that app wouldnt load the advertisements if there were anyway.

Its seems to be essentailly just parsing whats in the forum and using a native iphone view to display.


----------



## paolo (Oct 20, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Shame its client charged rather than a single fee for the server. I'd be tempted to offer to pay for it, but the other way round it's essentially making money out of urban so its harder to convince Ed to put the software on.



Someone really needs to create a standard for exposing forums as http accessible XML. Then 3rd party devs could create their own clients for mobile, desktop, everything.

/offtopic


----------



## sim667 (Oct 20, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Shame its client charged rather than a single fee for the server. I'd be tempted to offer to pay for it, but the other way round it's essentially making money out of urban so its harder to convince Ed to put the software on.



Well i think the developer of the client is due money for the work they've done...... Thats the basis of the app store business model. I wouldnt consider it as making money out of urban, I've bought the app to use with avforums...... It works very well. As far as im concerned the app is designed to streamline accessibility to forums for mobile devices, I dont understand how it would be considered as making money out of a forum, as the end user is paying for the luxury of having the streamlining available, it wouldn't be cutting off access to non-tapatalk users... If the plug in did that it would be a completely different issue.

Does the plugin not work for multiple mobile os's? In which case the argument that you'd have to install multiple plugins for different phones is null and void.

Currently I dont use urban on my phone, i find it a bit slow to load and a little frustrating to use.

Of course its not my forum, so i dont really get a say, but thought i may be appreciated by iphone users.


----------



## grit (Oct 20, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Someone really needs to create a standard for exposing forums as http accessible XML. Then 3rd party devs could create their own clients for mobile, desktop, everything.
> 
> /offtopic



Yeah it should be done, but not in XML.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 20, 2009)

I'm sure there are loads of iPhone skins for vbulletin - I don't know of any myself though.


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Currently I dont use urban on my phone, i find it a bit slow to load and a little frustrating to use.


Really? If you select the vBmobile skin, there's only text displayed so I can't see how it can be even remotely slow compared to most sites.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 20, 2009)

I use Urban in Safari on my iPhone and it's fine.

quicker now it's a 3GS though...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 20, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I'm sure there are loads of iPhone skins for vbulletin - I don't know of any myself though.



Cant we get one? It's ok but not great on the iPhone (the mobile skin is crap on it). U75 used to show great on my old Palm Centro though...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Oct 20, 2009)

I use it (full Urban) happily on my 3g.


----------



## grit (Oct 20, 2009)

I use the mobile skin, you can use vbulletin without it but it is a bit of a pain in the arse IMHO.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 20, 2009)

grit said:


> I use the mobile skin, you can use vbulletin without it but it is a bit of a pain in the arse IMHO.



I use the mobile one too and it's fine. The only thing I don't like is that it shows the thread title and then who's last responded to it. I would rather know who started the thread. Who cares who's responded.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Oct 20, 2009)

I use full urban on my 3GS. Would welcome an iPhone skin


----------



## sim667 (Oct 20, 2009)

what the fuck are skins?


----------



## paolo (Oct 20, 2009)

Skins may help, but native apps are the leap forward. There's plenty of examples - Twitter, Bloomberg, UK train times etc etc.


----------



## grit (Oct 20, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Skins may help, but native apps are the leap forward. There's plenty of examples - Twitter, Bloomberg, UK train times etc etc.



A well made skin, you wouldnt really be able to tell the difference between it and a dedicated app.


----------



## paolo (Oct 20, 2009)

Hmm. Never seen a iPhone skinned version of anything that has the same tightness of UI as native.

Compare native email app with iPhone gmail, for example.

If it's possible, why would there be native apps for things like Twitter etc etc ?

I really don't beleive web apps are 'just the same as native apps if you do them right'.


----------



## grit (Oct 20, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Hmm. Never seen a iPhone skinned version of anything that has the same tightness of UI as native.
> 
> Compare native email app with iPhone gmail, for example.
> 
> ...



Have a look at the jqtouch javascript library, all interface elements can easily be replicated using javascript. Sure there are iPhone web frameworks that expose gps,sms,dialer etc through javascript hooks. No objective-c required at all.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Oct 20, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Skins may help, but native apps are the leap forward. There's plenty of examples - Twitter, Bloomberg, UK train times etc etc.



I'm not sure the mods have the time to develop an Urban75 app


----------



## sim667 (Oct 20, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'm not sure the mods have the time to develop an Urban75 app



we're not talking about developing one, just making use of one that already been developed.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 21, 2009)

OK..I've made my mind up, finally, to get an iPhone

(and then look at the Palm Pre in a year or so)

I'd like to just go get an iPhone now (old phone is frakking flaky) but should I wait for Orange (when??) to see what they are offering?

I'm fairly sure there will be little in terms of cash/useable accessories difference..

and I spoke with a mate who said that o2 would be more useful to me with its BT openzone/coffee shop wifi tie ins (I live and work mostly in central london but travel around country too)

anyone heard any gossip or can make any educated guesses on this?


----------



## paolo (Oct 21, 2009)

Piers Gibbon said:


> OK..I've made my mind up, finally, to get an iPhone
> 
> (and then look at the Palm Pre in a year or so)
> 
> ...



I'd definitely wait to see what Orange offers.

Maybe they'll offer WiFi, maybe they'll have a deal that's attractive enough for you that you won't be too bothered by O2's bundle (or you'll be happy to buy the WiFi as an add on).


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2009)

I do like the WiFi addon from O2.  It you live in London its hard to be away from a spot.  You can just enter BT Openzone  or cloud into Google maps and head to the nearest pin.


----------



## themonkeyman (Oct 22, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I do like the WiFi addon from O2.  It you live in London its hard to be away from a spot.  You can just enter BT Openzone  or cloud into Google maps and head to the nearest pin.



how much is the add on from O2 ?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I do like the WiFi addon from O2.  It you live in London its hard to be away from a spot.  You can just enter BT Openzone  or cloud into Google maps and head to the nearest pin.



Sure makes up for the utter shit 3G coverage O2 have in London...


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2009)

themonkeyman said:


> how much is the add on from O2 ?



Comes as standard with the iPhone.


----------



## themonkeyman (Oct 22, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Comes as standard with the iPhone.



oh right cool, I didn't know that, nice


----------



## Gromit (Oct 22, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I do like the WiFi addon from O2.  It you live in London its hard to be away from a spot.  You can just enter BT Openzone  or cloud into Google maps and head to the nearest pin.



BT Openzones don't work for me. Do they work for you?


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2009)

Gromit said:


> BT Openzones don't work for me. Do they work for you?



Yes


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 22, 2009)

I've just been told that as I get my broadband from BT I get some free access to OPenzones anyway..hmm


----------



## Gromit (Oct 22, 2009)

I'd wait for Orange as it's worth seeing what they'll offer. Also despite O2 saying they won't try and compete (by changing their packages or pricing) they may just u-turn on that and you'd miss out on having a better deal by jumping the gun.

As for switching to the Pre a year later. I suspect you may resist that option due to:

a. Having to buy out your contract. Most are longer than a year. 
b. Losing all those aps you end up paying for as you can't resist it. They won't port from iPhone to Pre but will from iPhone to next gen iPhone.


----------



## g force (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm waiting till its offered on Vodafone so I can port my old PAYG number over. I think most contracts will be 18 months.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Oct 22, 2009)

Gromit said:


> I'd wait for Orange as it's worth seeing what they'll offer. Also despite O2 saying they won't try and compete (by changing their packages or pricing) they may just u-turn on that and you'd miss out on having a better deal by jumping the gun.
> 
> As for switching to the Pre a year later. I suspect you may resist that option due to:
> 
> ...



Thing is, O2's iPhone package is already better than the Orange smartphone equivalent.

O2 do £35pm including unlimited browsing. Orange is £35pm and then for 500MB of browsing you have to pay £7.50. Pile of wank!


----------



## g force (Oct 22, 2009)

Which suggests Orange will have to at least match 02's pricing when they do get the iphone, otherwise they'll shift very few of them.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Oct 22, 2009)

g force said:


> Which suggests Orange will have to at least match 02's pricing when they do get the iphone, otherwise they'll shift very few of them.



Indeed. Why they haven't matched it already for high-end smartphones is beyond me.


----------



## kazza007 (Oct 22, 2009)

*Customer retention/desperation incentivization*

How despearate will o2 in terms of customer retention..in terms of, I'm nearing the end of an 18month contract with them and thinking of a 3g 600mn/500text £35/month thing...the iphone will then cost me £97...is it foolish in trying to get the actual iphone free


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2009)

Nokia have got in a big strop with Apple over the iPhone breaching their patents. Lawyers have been called, share prices have fallen: http://www.wirefresh.com/clash-of-the-titans-nokia-suing-apple-over-the-iphone/


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2009)

I think these companies are forced by Apple into offering some of the biggest discounts on the iPhone in mobile phone history.  440 is the PAYG cost, so thats 260 quid hit straight away.  Hence the 18 month contract.  So they can actually make a profit from you.

Do not expect huge savings in contract prices, although I would like to think they can try to make it cheaper.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 23, 2009)

Here's an interesting possibility for me to get a bargain quicker than waiting for orange

A friend is dead keen to get a Pre. And he is wondering whether he can give me some money and his five month old 3gs 16gig which has a small scratch on the screen (not visible when display on)

So I'd have to get a free Pre plus 18 month contract on O2...say 44.05 quid for 500 texts and 1200 mins

How much cash should he give me? I like the idea of 

He's a good person so he'll do the right thing in the event of any circs BUT is this crazy? Can I get AppleCare in case the iPhone goes wrong?

Of course I could just get that contract with a new iPhone and pay 87 quid and be done with it. Hmmm

Any thoughts on a deal that would be worth my while, and his?


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2009)

Piers Gibbon said:


> A friend is dead keen to get a Pre. And he is wondering whether he can give me some money and his five month old 3gs 16gig which has a small scratch on the screen (not visible when display on)


Did he tell you why he wants to dump his 3GS for a Palm Pre?

And on a different topic dear iPhone users, what password do you need to use when you log on to free o2 wi-fi (i.e. BT openworld)?


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 23, 2009)

He fancies it and doesn't like the iphone as a phone


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2009)

editor said:


> Did he tell you why he wants to dump his 3GS for a Palm Pre?
> 
> And on a different topic dear iPhone users, what password do you need to use when you log on to free o2 wi-fi (i.e. BT openworld)?



Shouldn't need to have a password.  It should have a different logon screen asking for your phone number.  Once registered its automatic login from then on unless you master reset the phone.  Can do it at any of the wi-fi points.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 23, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Shouldn't need to have a password.  It should have a different logon screen asking for your phone number.



It's never worked at all for me when I've tried it - not that it's made much difference in practice, but at some point it might, and it does save the battery.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Oct 23, 2009)

Mine's logged on using the same username and password combo i'd use to login to the O2 website... works fine.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's never worked at all for me when I've tried it - not that it's made much difference in practice, but at some point it might, and it does save the battery.



It does take a while to switch on the 1st time, 5 minutes or so, so you really have to be patient.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2009)

The only time wi-fi really becomes really essential is when I'm abroad. 3G is fast enough for just about everything else when I'm out and about.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2009)

editor said:


> The only time wi-fi really becomes really essential is when I'm abroad. 3G is fast enough for just about everything else when I'm out and about.



When your out and about on O2, you will come to realise that statement rings very hollow.


----------



## paolo (Oct 23, 2009)

Sunray said:


> When your out and about on O2, you will come to realise that statement rings very hollow.



Been my experience too. Slows to a crawl in town and esp. during the rush hour in busy areas. Contention, I assume.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Oct 23, 2009)

Sunray said:


> When your out and about on O2, you will come to realise that statement rings very hollow.


TBF it's pretty hollow on 3 as well, which won't be a surprise i'm sure.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 23, 2009)

Sunray said:


> When your out and about on O2, you will come to realise that statement rings very hollow.



Indeed.


----------



## Xanadu (Oct 24, 2009)

3G/HSDPA is more than fast enough on Orange (out and about in London)


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 24, 2009)

HSDPA was blinding for me tonight, all the way from Liverpool to past York, very fast browsing. Don't often use the internet on my phone for long periods, but very impressed with Orange.


----------



## live_jayeola (Oct 25, 2009)

Had an iPhone for under a week now. Given to me by the Company. (Really was looking to get a Pre). Anyways, 3G is great in some locations in London and crap in others. Wifi's great when at home or in the office and I'm watching live news videos.

*Still hate the keyboard*


----------



## Sunray (Oct 25, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> HSDPA was blinding for me tonight, all the way from Liverpool to past York, very fast browsing. Don't often use the internet on my phone for long periods, but very impressed with Orange.



I'm shocked, 3G is blindingly fast in an unpopulated area.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 26, 2009)

Just got given the old handset 
Already on O2 so that is a help 
Now I have to try and work the fucker out


----------



## paolo (Oct 26, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Just got given the old handset
> Already on O2 so that is a help
> Now I have to try and work the fucker out



You'll need an iPhone SIM. Probably best to speak to O2 and explain you're already a customer.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 26, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> You'll need an iPhone SIM. Probably best to speak to O2 and explain you're already a customer.



I see... 

Time on hold then?


----------



## kazza007 (Oct 26, 2009)

My contract runs out in a month tomorrow with o2, so i guess it's from tomorrow that I can go down the path of officially cancelling, or upgrading...will ring o2 and see what I can blag iphone wise...but I'm not hopeful of them bunging me a free iphone 3g or 3gs on an 18month 500min/600text contract


----------



## paolo (Oct 26, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> My contract runs out in a month tomorrow with o2, so i guess it's from tomorrow that I can go down the path of officially cancelling, or upgrading...will ring o2 and see what I can blag iphone wise...but I'm not hopeful of them bunging me a free iphone 3g or 3gs on an 18month 500min/600text contract



Wait until Orange release in two weeks time - then you have more bargaining power.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 26, 2009)

I'm done end of Jan so I look forward to being able to receive a text or two at Festivals because this year I don't actually think I got any once the punters turned up.


----------



## paolo (Oct 26, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I'm done end of Jan so I look forward to being able to receive a text or two at Festivals because this year I don't actually think I got any once the punters turned up.



Hmm. S'good point. I think my exit point should be just in time for Glastonbury.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 27, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> My contract runs out in a month tomorrow with o2, so i guess it's from tomorrow that I can go down the path of officially cancelling, or upgrading...will ring o2 and see what I can blag iphone wise...but I'm not hopeful of them bunging me a free iphone 3g or 3gs on an 18month 500min/600text contract



I upgraded 6 months early. Cost me £100. Which is cheap when I'm on a £50/month contract.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 27, 2009)

Damn people.... 

Chap who was supposed to be bringing in my new toy has gone sick so I have to wait at least another day. 

Intolerable!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Oct 27, 2009)

My 3GS has got shit at push mail. I have to prompt it half the time now. Maybe I'll upgrade to latest version.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 27, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> My 3GS has got shit at push mail. I have to prompt it half the time now. Maybe I'll upgrade to latest version.



Connected to Exchange? Using wifi in your office?

Or everywhere?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Oct 27, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Connected to Exchange? Using wifi in your office?
> 
> Or everywhere?



It started with just my Yahoo account being crap, only downloading when I opened mail up (either account, Exchange or Yahoo). Now it's spread to Exchange account as well. No settings have changed.

On wifi at home/office or 3G/HDSPA/GPRS.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 27, 2009)

Ah, I thought it was what I experience... using wifi in the office, push fucks up as it's searching the internal network for an external address. I turn wifi off at work and it's seamless.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Oct 27, 2009)

Updating to 3.1.2 now. Goodbye, 'evaulation' apps.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 27, 2009)

YAY! I've just been given the loan of an original iphone (3.1.2) so now I'm guessing I need to swap over to a PAYG with 02 so I can await developments on Orange etc...

But one question...do I need to get a special iphone sim card..obviously I need unlimited data and I'd like those wifi hotspots - is this possible?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 27, 2009)

Get a PAYG iPhone Sim through Ebay.
The prices seem to have rocketed, I bought one for about a fiver a few months back but people are trying to sell them now for up to £50.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 27, 2009)

oh..but I want to swap my number over..is that poss with an ebayed one, I'm guessing not

thanks - I'll look in to it


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 27, 2009)

As far as O2 know, it's a new PAYG iPhone, so as long as O2 allow number porting on PAYG, it shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 27, 2009)

thanks

and I found this too

http://www.newiphoneunlock.com/


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 27, 2009)

There are free jailbreaks around, so check those out first. 
Not sure whether they also unlock the phone, but someone else will be along who probably knows.


----------



## kazza007 (Oct 27, 2009)

o2 were brilliant.  I wrotw to them a few weeks ago authorising my contract to be cancelled on the designated date.  I called up just to CHECK this had been done (even though I got a text confirming the contract would be cancelled...but I don't trust the cunts not to re-bill so wanted to be doubly sure).  And the telephone operative, for some reason, didn't want to check my records 'oh yeh if you sent a letter and got a text it'll be cancelled'.  But can you just check the computer record RIGHT IN FUCKING FRONT OF YOU just so it's doubly sure.  'no it'll be fine, we'll cancel the contract as you requested, from the letter you say you sent us.'  Oh and I didn't get any of the 'why are you thinking of leaving us, is there any particular deal/phone that you're interested in upgrading to.' 
So fuck you O2, I'm getting my iphone with orange, you slag 

(unless I get desparate for a good deal in Nov, I reserve the right to back track on what I have said  )


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 27, 2009)

Lazy Llama said:


> As far as O2 know, it's a new PAYG iPhone, so as long as O2 allow number porting on PAYG, it shouldn't be a problem.



They do, though it has to be within a certain length of time from activation.


----------



## themonkeyman (Oct 27, 2009)

This seems to be the best place to ask this question. I've got an iPhone 3g running 3.0 software and it's jailbroken. I have never had any issues until yesterday when I was playing music and the time line bar has dissappeared. Any ideas ?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 27, 2009)

it's not just the normal touch the artwork in the middle of the screen to show progress/Genius/hide progress is it?


----------



## Badgers (Oct 28, 2009)

The migration is afoot.... 

I have an 8GB 2G iPhone sitting on my desk with a charger. 
After a couple of failed attempts I have managed to download iTunes to my PC. 

Currently having a real hassle getting my contacts and stuff off my C902 and can't afford to lose any of these. I think I am going to head down to the O2 shop at lunchtime and get them to do some work.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 28, 2009)

fone house will charge me 35-45 quid to unlock the original iphone..but they can't do it yet on the new software

so maybe I should get a 50 quid o2 payg iphone sim from ebay and swap my number over..bit of a hassle but I would then get access to the bt wifi zones


----------



## paolo (Oct 28, 2009)

Badgers said:


> The migration is afoot....
> 
> I have an 8GB 2G iPhone sitting on my desk with a charger.
> After a couple of failed attempts I have managed to download iTunes to my PC.
> ...



If possible, get your old phone contacts into your gmail contacts *first*. Then when you set the iPhone up, you can have it sync. Works seamlessly.

The good thing about that is that it can then sync over the air. Any change on the phone goes up to your gmail, and vice versa, transparently. Godsend if you later lose the phone.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 28, 2009)

http://www.macrumors.com/2009/10/27...search-in-motion-in-smart-phone-market-share/


----------



## g force (Oct 28, 2009)

Their conclusions are wholly wrong IMO. RIM has always been a business phone and with a pretty stable market share but now more consumers are moving to smartphones many have chosen the new entrant, iPhone. Be interesting to see that graph in a year's time with new handsets coming out.

I doubt RIM care much - they have 40% of the overall market but a huge % of the business market where they make a shed load of money.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 28, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> If possible, get your old phone contacts into your gmail contacts



Manual process?


----------



## kained&able (Oct 29, 2009)

Just got an email through from orange saying the iphone 3gs will be availible on orange in November.

Good times.


dave


----------



## kazza007 (Oct 29, 2009)

10th november if rumours are true...any word on tarrifs..or will that be announced on the 4th? cant wait...for the ques at orange stores


----------



## paolo (Oct 29, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Manual process?



That's what I did (very dull), but if you can find a way of exporting to a text file, you can then import that into gmail.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 30, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> That's what I did (very dull), but if you can find a way of exporting to a text file, you can then import that into gmail.



can google not read vcards?


----------



## live_jayeola (Oct 31, 2009)

I have the same problem. The contacts that I have in my gmail account have not been populated onto the phone. Also tried sending vcards via bluetooth from a Nokia to the iPhone. Fails every time.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 31, 2009)

Tis tricky is it not? 

In work I have Outlook which is faster to update and although my gmail account gets a lot of mail my office Outlook gets more. Also outlook is easier/quicker to update than gmail for contacts. Tidied up 200 contacts yesterday in less than an hour using Outlook so will stick with this option.


----------



## paolo (Oct 31, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Tis tricky is it not?
> 
> In work I have Outlook which is faster to update and although my gmail account gets a lot of mail my office Outlook gets more. Also outlook is easier/quicker to update than gmail for contacts. Tidied up 200 contacts yesterday in less than an hour using Outlook so will stick with this option.



Have you tried syncing to Exchange?


----------



## Badgers (Nov 2, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Have you tried syncing to Exchange?



Not yet, got a fair bit of fiddling still to do though. 

One thing that I am getting used to is the battery life. Big screen is always gonna be a big drain but the speed it runs down is surprising.


----------



## paolo (Nov 2, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Not yet, got a fair bit of fiddling still to do though.
> 
> One thing that I am getting used to is the battery life. Big screen is always gonna be a big drain but the speed it runs down is surprising.



When I'm office based I take the cable with me (or actually, leave a spare there).


----------



## live_jayeola (Nov 2, 2009)

Got one for work. 3g thing. Been using the net with it  a lot. Drains the batt like a mofo. The batt was down to zero on Saturday :-/


----------



## Badgers (Nov 2, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> When I'm office based I take the cable with me (or actually, leave a spare there).



I have been keeping the USB cable with me. Do not have the plug adaptor for this yet but am generally near a PC all day so not the end of the world for me.


----------



## paolo (Nov 2, 2009)

live_jayeola said:


> Got one for work. 3g thing. Been using the net with it  a lot. Drains the batt like a mofo. The batt was down to zero on Saturday :-/



You should get about 4-5 hours use. Better than a G1. Not sure how it compares with a Pre.


----------



## paolo (Nov 2, 2009)

I see Orange have launched with a worse offering than O2. Same prices, but with a twatting fair usage "unlimited" limit of 750mb/month.

It's not unlimited then is it, you shower of cunts.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 2, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> I see Orange have launched with a worse offering than O2. Same prices, but with a twatting fair usage "unlimited" limit of 750mb/month.
> 
> It's not unlimited then is it, you shower of cunts.



Yep just saw that too. When they said they wouldn't change the prices but would add value in other ways I guess they meant for themselves?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 2, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> I see Orange have launched with a worse offering than O2. Same prices, but with a twatting fair usage "unlimited" limit of 750mb/month.
> 
> It's not unlimited then is it, you shower of cunts.



Yeah, I predicted as much earlier in the thread. Orange are a clueless bunch of fucks.


----------



## grit (Nov 2, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> It's not unlimited then is it, you shower of cunts.



I feel your frustration, however pretty much all "unlimited" deals like this have something similar.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Nov 2, 2009)

is 750 mb per month something that is likely to be gone over when using an iphone normally? genuine question btw

I was waiting to see the orange offer but am underwhelmed

Also when they say Wifi hotspots - do they mean the same set as 02 give you access too??


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 2, 2009)

Piers Gibbon said:


> is 750 mb per month something that is likely to be gone over when using an iphone normally? genuine question btw
> 
> I was waiting to see the orange offer but am underwhelmed
> 
> Also when they say Wifi hotspots - do they mean the same set as 02 give you access too??



I use roughly 500 - 700 mbs a month, sometimes more. In my first month I used over a gig...


----------



## sim667 (Nov 2, 2009)

Just seen on another forum a program called 'Air video' has been released....

means you can stream films from your PC/Mac on a home network and across t'internet.

It has something called live convert too..... so you dont have to convert all your vids to make them work.


----------



## paolo (Nov 2, 2009)

grit said:


> I feel your frustration, however pretty much all "unlimited" deals like this have something similar.



No limit that I'm aware of on O2. I've used more than 2gb in a month.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 2, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> No limit that I'm aware of on O2. I've used more than 2gb in a month.



o2 have no set limit although they say in their contract that the reserve the right to cut your data usage, *if* your usage affects other customers.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 2, 2009)

I am online now so the app madness starts soon


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 2, 2009)

Lifetime data stats for my iPhone:

Sent: 192MB
Rec: 771MB

In 15 months!


----------



## paolo (Nov 2, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> Lifetime data stats for my iPhone:
> 
> Sent: 192MB
> Rec: 771MB
> ...



blimey. I do that in 2 weeks!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 2, 2009)

Yeah, I'm sat in front of a computer for all but an hour of the day, so... also, for most of the last year, I can only get Edge at work, and use wifi at home...

 I only use about 25% of my talk/text allowance, too.

I'm starting to suspect it's probably not worth the money (£35pm) it's costing me, to be honest.


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 2, 2009)

Hmm...so to stay with 02 and try and nab a deal with their poorer 3g network, or go with orange's wider 3g, but craper customer service and limited data.  +


----------



## paolo (Nov 2, 2009)

Or wait and see what Vodafone do.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 2, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Just seen on another forum a program called 'Air video' has been released....
> 
> means you can stream films from your PC/Mac on a home network and across t'internet.
> 
> It has something called live convert too..... so you dont have to convert all your vids to make them work.



This has been possible on other smartphones for several years now.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 2, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> Lifetime data stats for my iPhone:
> 
> Sent: 192MB
> Rec: 771MB
> ...



2.4 gig in 15 months me.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 3, 2009)

teuchter said:


> This has been possible on other smartphones for several years now.



Thats nice...... now its available on iphone 






Apparently I've downloaded 257 MB in the phones lifetime......... that must be since i did the factory reset when my jailbreak went wrong, not since ive had the phone lol.


----------



## hendo (Nov 3, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> I see Orange have launched with a worse offering than O2. Same prices, but with a twatting fair usage "unlimited" limit of 750mb/month.
> 
> It's not unlimited then is it, you shower of cunts.



The BBC's Rory C-J writes on this blog this morning:





> Last night someone pointed me towards this clause in Orange's Terms and Conditions:
> "Not to be used for other activities (eg using your handset as a modem, non-Orange internet based streaming services, voice or video over the internet, instant messaging, peer to peer file sharing, non-Orange internet based video). Should such use be detected notice may be given and Network protection controls applied to all services which Orange does not believe constitutes mobile browsing."​  It sounds as though services like Spotify, AudioBoo, Ustream and even Facebook messaging - increasingly popular with O2 iPhone customers - will be out of bounds for Orange users.



Not great, although apparently Orange are worried about the upswell of adverse twitttering about these T&C's and may 'review' this policy.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 3, 2009)

g force said:


> Their conclusions are wholly wrong IMO. RIM has always been a business phone and with a pretty stable market share but now more consumers are moving to smartphones many have chosen the new entrant, iPhone. Be interesting to see that graph in a year's time with new handsets coming out.
> 
> I doubt RIM care much - they have 40% of the overall market but a huge % of the business market where they make a shed load of money.



I've been eligible for an upgrade since January, but I_ still_ don't know which handset to go for.  Currently have a very scratched and battered Curve. Ones things for sure, although I like this handset, the apps store is shite and because there are so many different models of Blackberry there are compatiblity issues with the apps, lots of them don't work, even though they are supposed to.


----------



## g force (Nov 3, 2009)

Only app I have on my BB is Google Maps - never visited the App store!! But its a work phone - just wainting for iPhone to go to Vodafone and that will be my personal handset. I like the look of the Pre but i;m not going to O2 and it's shit service


----------



## Sunray (Nov 3, 2009)

g force said:


> Only app I have on my BB is Google Maps - never visited the App store!! But its a work phone - just wainting for iPhone to go to Vodafone and that will be my personal handset. I like the look of the Pre but i;m not going to O2 and it's *shit service*



I've been O2 for a while and have never had an issue with their service.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 3, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I've been O2 for a while and have never had an issue with their service.



Same. Been with them over 10 years.


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2009)

From my limited experience so far, T Mobile seem to have much faster 3G coverage around town. Their customer services seems better though. Well, so far, at least.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 3, 2009)

g force said:


> Only app I have on my BB is Google Maps - never visited the App store!! But its a work phone - just wainting for iPhone to go to Vodafone and that will be my personal handset. I like the look of the Pre but i;m not going to O2 and it's shit service



Never had problems with o2....... service has always been fine

my phones on orange and t-mobile tho


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 3, 2009)

editor said:


> From my limited experience so far, T Mobile seem to have much faster 3G coverage around town. Their customer services seems better though. Well, so far, at least.



Yeah, O2 3G is shocking, it has to be said. Orange wasn't loads better, mind.

When I in Amsterdam recently, the 3G was lightening fast.


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2009)

You'll note that I haven't been posting up the lists of apps that have been rejected from the Apps Store for bonkers reasons recently because it seems to upset some people, but - come on - this one is a bit special!


> Apple rejects Macworld iPhone Superguide from App Store... for using the word 'iPhone'
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/03/apple-rejects-macworld-iphone-superguide-from-app-store-for-u/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yeah, O2 3G is shocking, it has to be said. Orange wasn't loads better, mind.
> 
> When I in Amsterdam recently, the 3G was lightening fast.



What was the data costs for using it in the Dam?


----------



## Gromit (Nov 3, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What was the data costs for using it in the Dam?



If he's roaming under a Uk O2 contract.  

£3 per MB as Holland is in the EU. 

Its £6 per MB outside the EU.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 3, 2009)

Eliminate Pro - a pretty much awesome multiplayer deathmatch FPS - released. For free!

But it's got an in-app pricing model. You can only get credits and experience, to buy better guns and move up the leaderboards, if you either (a) wait quite a while between games or (b) shell out for "power cells", which give you the ability to earn credits from fragging, or can be turned into credits themselves. You can still _play_ for free, and you can set up games between your friends, but you can't compete on the global leaderboard or upgrade your weapons and armour and gadgets, unless you wait four hours between matches.

I'm not entirely decided. It's extremely well done as a game and I don't really care about going up some global scoreboard, so I suspect that I'll be fine with the free version. But it's an interesting illustration of what's called "freemium" - free games that you can pay extra to access premium content with, so, really, the same as "lite" and "pro" versions, in that cash unlocks content.

As an FPS timewaster though it's terrific - you can always play against bots or n00bs even if you've run out of power.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2009)

It's fucking great! Brilliant fun, proper fragfest!  The iPhone is gonna pwn as a gaming platform in a matter of years...


----------



## Badgers (Nov 4, 2009)

One thing that I have to get is some headphones. 
Have some decent ones here doing nothing but they do not fit.
Suppose I could get something like this


----------



## Structaural (Nov 4, 2009)

hendo said:


> Not great, although apparently Orange are worried about the upswell of adverse twitttering about these T&C's and may 'review' this policy.



No Streaming and Instant Messaging? GTF!

--
A lot of gaming piracy going on according to this:
http://www.slidetoplay.com/story/fishlabs-piracy-threatens-app-stores-future?source=9593

I think that's why a lot of games are embracing in-app purchases.

--
I jailbroke my iPhone a couple of weeks ago. Best thing I ever did, piece of piss (just run the pwnage tool if you're on a Mac and follow instructions - make sure you transfer any purchases over though, I lost an album I'd bought). Mainly for SBSettings and Backgrounding (you just hold down the home button when you quit and the app stays live - do the same to quit it), I often run my stereo with Simplify to access my entire itunes - means I can still take a call or SMS without the app quitting on me.
Oh and a home made theme of course...





Cycorder is handy for us 3G users. It's good feels a bit like a new phone again, as I've another 9 months before my contract is up.
Can't say I've pirated anything yet, might wack TomTom on there as I'd never buy that anyway (don't drive).

--
That AirVideoFree thing works a treat with live conversion, no need to convert everything I've pirated when I'm sitting in the garden smoking.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Nov 4, 2009)

that looks interesting Structaural..I'm on t-mobile and have been offered an original iphone to play with..its 3.1.2 though and I've been told they can't be unlocked or jailbroken yet

nice to see it working on t mobile tho


----------



## Structaural (Nov 4, 2009)

Piers Gibbon said:


> that looks interesting Structaural..I'm on t-mobile and have been offered an original iphone to play with..its 3.1.2 though and I've been told they can't be unlocked or jailbroken yet
> 
> nice to see it working on t mobile tho



Mine's 3.1.2  - you can jailbreak with pwnage tool, no worries. 
As far as I know only 3.0 baseband can be unlocked at the moment. - the baseband is a separate enclosed bit of software that is unaffected by jailbreaking.

The devs of pwnage tool reckon they're not going to bother with 3.1.2 firmware/baseband unlock - but will attempt the next one....

Remember folks you can't brick your phone with a Jailbreak. Only an unlock...


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 4, 2009)

I've heard of jailbreaking and read a bit on it, but don't quite get what it does?  Does it fuck up your warranty?  Does it mean you get more apps?  Apps for free?  Is it purely a geeky thing (  )


----------



## teuchter (Nov 5, 2009)

A question for you iphone mugs people:


Do you find the music player becomes sluggish if/when you have large amounts (say, 20GB+) of music on the device? As in, menus and album lists and the like take a little while to appear after you select something?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2009)

no


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 5, 2009)

teuchter said:


> A question for you iphone mugs people:



is that you, ed?


----------



## editor (Nov 5, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> is that you, ed?


You're becoming very tiresome now.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 5, 2009)

Going to buy another iPhone rather than get a contract for wifey.
Have seen the 2G ones selling second hand for £100ish


----------



## Structaural (Nov 5, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> I've heard of jailbreaking and read a bit on it, but don't quite get what it does?  Does it fuck up your warranty?  Does it mean you get more apps?  Apps for free?  Is it purely a geeky thing (  )



Is a bit geeky, but it essentially turns your phone back into the computer it is. Root access to your iphone, SSH in (or use USB with iPhone Explorer) and change stuff around. You get another 'app store' with Cydia, Rock or Icy, which allows you to get apps that apple won't or haven't approved.

It doesn't change the fundamentals, all your bought apps are fine, the apple store works as normal as does itunes, the Cydia apps even show up in Application screens in Itunes.

It's worth for just those two things - SBsettings and backgrounding. The rest is just fluff. I don't care for 99% of Themes for instance, just give me a nice wallpaper in the background. The Youtube downloader is handy for those vids that take an age over 3g. You can download attachments in safari - and use an Ad Blocker plug-in. I've got a Terminal app that works just like the one in OS X. QuickSMS lets you send and receive SMSs without quitting any app you're in.

SBSsettings gives you a menu in every app, that lets you free up memory, quit backgrounding apps (like safari and itunes), turn off wifi, GPS or 3G on the fly, change the brightness - also has a mini dock and a button that fools browsers into thinking your using a desktop Firefox (useful when you keep getting the mobile versions of websites). There's an app to sync googlecalendars to Ical too - as they get low level access to the filing system. Background, for me, is just the missing app.

Loads of other geeky stuff, yes, if you want that too, and piracy - just like every other platform. But the other app stores have already come up with ways to combat that - unlike Apple.


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 5, 2009)

Thanks, Structural.

If the phone breaks down and you have to take it in, will they say 'soz, it's jailbroken, you're fucked mate'?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 5, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> Thanks, Structural.
> 
> If the phone breaks down and you have to take it in, will they say 'soz, it's jailbroken, you're fucked mate'?



yip

unless you can restore it

its worth doing tho


----------



## Kanda (Nov 5, 2009)

teuchter said:


> A question for you iphone mugs people:
> 
> 
> Do you find the music player becomes sluggish if/when you have large amounts (say, 20GB+) of music on the device? As in, menus and album lists and the like take a little while to appear after you select something?



nope


----------



## Structaural (Nov 5, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> Thanks, Structural.
> 
> If the phone breaks down and you have to take it in, will they say 'soz, it's jailbroken, you're fucked mate'?



Well, they can't know if you just restore to your last proper backup (the pwnage tools uses that to create the jailbroken device but puts that copy on your desktop). The general consensus is just restore to a new iphone (you can say you tried that when trying to fix it), you might lose some apps that you've bought since jailbreaking - but you can usually copy them over in iTunes or re-download them.
Here's a guide if you need to restore: link

Of course if your phone doesn't work at all, I'm not so sure, hopefully in that case they'd just replace it.


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 5, 2009)

Thanks, it's useful to know when I get an Iphone this month


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> Thanks, it's useful to know when I get an Iphone this month


You might have trouble finding doo wop songs:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2009/nov/06/itunes-censors-songs


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 6, 2009)

teuchter said:


> A question for you iphone mugs people:
> 
> 
> Do you find the music player becomes sluggish if/when you have large amounts (say, 20GB+) of music on the device? As in, menus and album lists and the like take a little while to appear after you select something?



Nope, have you tried rebooting to clear the memory?


----------



## nightowl (Nov 6, 2009)

i've read that orange and vodafone are going to be stocking the iphone before long. is it best to wait a while in the hope there's going to be a bit of a price war soon?


----------



## teuchter (Nov 6, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nope, have you tried rebooting to clear the memory?



It's an issue on my Nokia. I was wondering whether it was something that happened to iPhones/iPods/mp3 players in general once you had a large amount of stuff on there.

In my case - it seems like the way to resolve it is to store the music on an SD card rather than the inbuilt memory, because it can be read more quickly, for some reason.


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2009)

nightowl said:


> i've read that orange and vodafone are going to be stocking the iphone before long. is it best to wait a while in the hope there's going to be a bit of a price war soon?


Orange are already offering it, but there's no big discounts going on. 

http://www.wirefresh.com/orange-iphone-pricing-expect-to-pay-up-to-three-grand/


----------



## Sunray (Nov 7, 2009)

Difficult to have a price war on the phone as Apple set the price and if you want to sell them you have to sign a contract with Apple. 

Only compete on the tariff and as Apple make the operators discount so heavily, its hard to see how they can make much money.


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 7, 2009)

I don't particularly want to be chained to a 24month contract (3gs) seeing that another Iphone will be released in the summer most likely and it doesn't work out to be cost effective, and I don't want to have something that is clearly already dated when I get it (3g), and I don't particularly want to pay for a handset if I can get away with it. (about £90)....so free 3g model for 18months or free 3gs for 24months?  Need to decide in the next week or so... is it with o2 you can upgrade after 9months/9months before your contract expires, and not orange (and can you do it with the Iphone)? I spoke to o2 who I'm with and of course they're not doing anything to retain existing customers. I think o2 will start capping MB use now...or orange may review their cap, so not too bothered about the provider.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 8, 2009)

teuchter said:


> A question for you iphone mugs people:



Yes, you are a dull, dull person.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Nov 8, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Mine's 3.1.2  - you can jailbreak with pwnage tool, no worries.
> As far as I know only 3.0 baseband can be unlocked at the moment. - the baseband is a separate enclosed bit of software that is unaffected by jailbreaking.
> 
> The devs of pwnage tool reckon they're not going to bother with 3.1.2 firmware/baseband unlock - but will attempt the next one....
> ...



OK I'm clearly doing something stupid..after I do everything the iPhone/iTunes STILL says "insert a valid simcard pls (you dirty jailbreaker)"

Original iphone plus 3.1.2 software (wikipedia says pwnage tool can jailbreak this)
Want to use with my tmobile sim (unlimited data contract)
Using Pwnage tool 3.1.4
It got me to seek out a file it needed..I downloaded iPhone1,1_3.1.2D11restore.ipsw (the right one??)
Pwnage tool then says Yay and starts building me an ipsw..which it places on the desktop
iTunes then wakes up and says either "let's restore your phone" but doesn't give me the option to use the file placed on the desktop..OR it simply says "insert a valid simcard" again

I've done this a few times now..any ideas?


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Nov 8, 2009)

ahhh I think I have worked it out...PRESS THE OPTION KEY when asking iTunes to Restore..it then gives you the option of choosing your jailbreaky file from the desktop

we'll see what happens next...


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2009)

Look out jailbreakers - there's an iPhone worm on the loose - and what a terrible thing it is too!

http://www.sophos.com/blogs/gc/g/2009/11/08/iphone-worm-discovered-wallpaper-rick-astley-photo/


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Nov 8, 2009)

Piers Gibbon said:


> ahhh I think I have worked it out...PRESS THE OPTION KEY when asking iTunes to Restore..it then gives you the option of choosing your jailbreaky file from the desktop
> 
> we'll see what happens next...



It's all too easy..

only thing I need now is to tell the iPhone network settings how to use the tmobile internet..


----------



## Kanda (Nov 8, 2009)

teuchter said:


> It's an issue on my Nokia. I was wondering whether it was something that happened to iPhones/iPods/mp3 players in general once you had a large amount of stuff on there.



Suprised you ask it considering Apple have been making MP3 players for years. All the iPhone is is an MP3 with a Phone attached (and a bit more)

So I'm then suprised you choose to open your post calling people mugs... 

You div


----------



## teuchter (Nov 8, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Suprised you ask it considering Apple have been making MP3 players for years. All the iPhone is is an MP3 with a Phone attached (and a bit more)
> 
> So I'm then suprised you choose to open your post calling people mugs...
> 
> You div



Well - I just wondered whether it's an inevitable part of having a large music library. Never having had an MP3 player (of any kind) with that amount of stuff on it until recently.

Did you know that Nokia claim to be the world's largest supplier of MP3 devices, by the way?

Anyway, I was just wondering, and my question has been answered. For which I'm most grateful.

You're still all mugs though.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 8, 2009)

You're still a div though


----------



## paolo (Nov 8, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Did you know that Nokia claim to be the world's largest supplier of MP3 devices, by the way?



They're probably also the world's biggest supplier of "torches" etc etc


----------



## teuchter (Nov 9, 2009)

I think they have tried to make the claim for cameras too.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 9, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I think they have tried to make the claim for cameras too.



They could possibly make the claim for phones too...  :shocker:

...and?


----------



## paolo (Nov 9, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I think they have tried to make the claim for cameras too.



Quite. Usage is where it's at.

http://www.flickr.com/cameras/


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Quite. Usage is where it's at.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/cameras/


That only shows the comparatively small amount of users who upload their phone's photos to Flickr, and then it only tracks individual handset models. 

Nokia have long been the world's largest camera maker:
http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSL1727468020080617


----------



## Kanda (Nov 9, 2009)

Let's make a 'Nokia are the worlds largest camera maker' thread then shall we?


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Let's make a 'Nokia are the worlds largest camera maker' thread then shall we?


You can if you like, but I don't see the point myself, seeing as I was only answering a point brought up by another poster.


----------



## Mooncat (Nov 9, 2009)

Iphone gets RickRolled 



> iPhone owners in Australia awoke this weekend to find their devices targeted by self-replicating attacks that display an image of 1980s heart throb Rick Astley that's not easily removed.





http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/11/08/iphone_worm_rickrolls_users/

Shame it only works on jailbroken phones though.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 9, 2009)

I was just reading about that. Basically all it does is try the default SSH password for the phone, which only works on jailbroken phones. I was wondering why anybody apart from a few geeks would install and activate SSH, but apparently there's a tethering method that works by having your computer log into your phone via SSH (or something along those lines).


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Nov 9, 2009)

yay..everything working fine on my jailbroken original iphone! It even picked up the settings for tmobile internet automagically

why didn't i realise before that I wanted to jailbreak and not unlock??

I'm working in Lisbon for a month in feb/march - this makes me wonder whether I would be able to buy a local data sim and go crazy hmmm

anyway just wanted to say thanks for the help - jailbreaking is indeed very easy on pwnage tool


----------



## live_jayeola (Nov 9, 2009)

broke the Iphone on sunday and immediately came across that article from the register.


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 9, 2009)

Do you regret it?


----------



## Kanda (Nov 9, 2009)

iPhone can be unlocked from O2: http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/unlockmyiphone.html


----------



## Sunray (Nov 9, 2009)

Makes life a bit easier.


----------



## themonkeyman (Nov 10, 2009)

I;ve un jailbroken mine now, was getting annoyed with the performance issues.  To be fair I was really only using the 5 item dock and the winterboard themes.  Not really much else, plus I don't want to get into the whole installous thing as I don't think that is on really.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Nov 10, 2009)

interesting...I have my original iphone...jailbroken

I have not installed anything but kosher apple apps..and I'm not using any custom themes or multitasking or ssh or suchlike

Presumably there shouldn't be ANY performance difference??


----------



## Structaural (Nov 10, 2009)

Piers Gibbon said:


> yay..everything working fine on my jailbroken original iphone! It even picked up the settings for tmobile internet automagically
> 
> why didn't i realise before that I wanted to jailbreak and not unlock??
> 
> ...



Glad it's working out for you, I don't think you can use another SIM without an unlock, which is not possible on 3.1.2 - but maybe possible on the next update (eventually).
I bought Haptic Pro from Cydia, quite nifty, though it should be about a pound. It's the little things, that make it worthwhile. 
Battery life seems unaffected by JB, even after leaving two apps backgrounding all day (well handy though, had 3 translation apps open in my Dutch class). A few apps don't background well (Vlc remote for instance- it always seems to quit when another app is opened). This is another problem with Apple not allowing backgrounding - developers aren't programming for it...  They've got to allow it on the next iteration of the iPhone with likes of Droid and Pre out there. Still this'll do, I'm curious how well it works on a 3GS with it's extra RAM and processor speed.
I've decided not to do any piracy as the apps are so cheap anyway, doesn't seem fair, also it seems a shame that jailbreaking is becoming synonymous with piracy, rather than improved software/GUI.

Some guy in Holland was hacking iPhones through SSH (which is the best way to get stuff on and off your phone with Cyberduck) and getting them to pay a fiver to unfuck it. Still if you don't change your default SSH password you're asking for it...


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Nov 10, 2009)

yeah I agree on not pirating..seems fair to me!

I haven't installed ssh so presumably Rick Astley can't see my bank details


----------



## Kanda (Nov 10, 2009)

Live Football from Sky on iPhone: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8352178.stm


----------



## Badgers (Nov 10, 2009)

Synced with PC after not doing so for a few days and it deleted all recent texts and stuff


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Live Football from Sky on iPhone: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8352178.stm


...and putting £6 a month into Murdoch's coffers for the privilege.


----------



## gabi (Nov 10, 2009)

Hows this gonna work tech-wise given that apple won't allow flash?

not on my touch anyway..? does it work on iphone?


----------



## Kanda (Nov 10, 2009)

editor said:


> ...and putting £6 a month into Murdoch's coffers for the privilege.



I got 3 months free. I'll cancel after that. I already put about £60/month in his coffers for Sky.


----------



## paolo (Nov 10, 2009)

gabi said:


> Hows this gonna work tech-wise given that apple won't allow flash?
> 
> not on my touch anyway..? does it work on iphone?



You don't need Flash to do video.

(See iPhone BBC iPlayer, YouTube etc)


----------



## Sunray (Nov 10, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Synced with PC after not doing so for a few days and it deleted all recent texts and stuff



Weird?  Not JB is it?

I did a system restore of mine and it kept all my text?


----------



## Badgers (Nov 10, 2009)

No JB at all 

I do not have the phone synced on any other PC but have been charging it at home on another. 
The music and apps remained in place but the texts all vanished and others that were deleted reappeared.


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I got 3 months free. I'll cancel after that. I already put about £60/month in his coffers for Sky.


Really? Personally, I avoid trying to give him money whenever I can.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 10, 2009)

editor said:


> Really? Personally, I avoid trying to give him money whenever I can.



Sky Sports and Movies etc etc

Can't get Virgin in my area.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 10, 2009)

Just got the 3 months free Sky Sports. Superb quality. Genuinely watchable.


----------



## Looby (Nov 10, 2009)

Woohoo, just ordered my first iphone and am very excited but a little scared at having such an expensive phone. 

First stupid question- Will I be able to save my contacts to my old sim and transfer them over before I activate my new sim (which will actually be magic sams as we have to swap numbers )?


----------



## Badgers (Nov 11, 2009)

Badgers said:


> No JB at all
> 
> I do not have the phone synced on any other PC but have been charging it at home on another.
> The music and apps remained in place but the texts all vanished and others that were deleted reappeared.



Correct this... 

Music is still there. 
Recent photos are gone??? 
Apps have all changed position on the phone????? 
All the apps that I have downloaded have now stopped working!!!?????!!!???


----------



## live_jayeola (Nov 11, 2009)

JB'd the phone on Sunday. Installed backgrounder and fscked it. Going for it again over the weekend when I have some time. Great to be able to shell in and out from the phone.


----------



## editor (Nov 11, 2009)

I have to say I've never seen any phone get as advertised as heavily as the iPhone. There's been *months* of full page newspaper ads, TV ads, magazine ads, massive shop displays - the lot!


----------



## Pie 1 (Nov 12, 2009)

It's the old CocaCola thing. They don't seem to need to advertise, but they do, heavily. 
They've got _the_ product of the moment (actually with the iPods & nano's, several products of the moment) and more importantly, 100's of millions of $$$ lying around to be spent on the best advertising & production money can buy. 
They are in a truly enviable position - the holy grail in marketing terms: a product that is one of massive global desire & not buckets, but lakes of cash to spend on showing it off.
They'd be silly not to take total advantage of that & whatever you think of Apple, that's one thing you can never accuse them of being.

(E2A: OK, apps approval system aside! )


----------



## Badgers (Nov 12, 2009)

Downloaded the Natwest app this morning but seems like a lot of other people have so not been able to open it yet.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Nov 12, 2009)

it would be great if they spent a few more of those dollars on the app approval process, to avoid silliness


----------



## Sunray (Nov 12, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Correct this...
> 
> Music is still there.
> Recent photos are gone???
> ...



Have you master reset the phone before you started using it.  It would have been wise.  Remember to activate iTunes and do this for each iTunes you are using up to 5 copies.  Also check how iTunes is set to Sync.  If you are syncing photos then it will blank your photos if they were synced with a different iTunes on a different PC.  Same is true with Apps.

You can position the apps on iTunes.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 12, 2009)

All my apps recently changed position too - I was trying to move one around but it kept failing and producing a blank space, which was annoying, so I synced it with the intention of moving the apps in iTunes but forgot, and then when I next looked they were all in "default" position i.e. the core apps on the first two screens then everything after that in alphabetical order. Very annoying.


----------



## editor (Nov 12, 2009)

The developer of one of the iPhone's most popular programs _by miles_ has just quit in protest over their App Store policies.
http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-facebook-dev-quits-in-protest-over-app-store-policies/


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 12, 2009)

Yeah, I was reading that earlier (on my iPhone ironically). I get the impression based on his earlier statements that if it was just the fact that there was an approval process, it wouldn't be an issue - after all, if you work for Facebook, you can hardly complain about _other people_ having a "walled garden" - but it's the fact that the approval process is so rubbish and slow and inconsistent. They really do need to sort it out and about triple their staff, because loads of developers are increasingly pissed off.

For a lot of these apps, there's also the option of going completely HTML. There are iPhone web APIs, and Safari will run HTML5, which has offline storage (e.g. the Gmail page works offline on the iPhone). And there's no approval process with a web app. I suspect people are increasingly going to go in that direction - I know I would, and might, because my boss is talking about iPhone apps and I doubt I'll get time off to learn Objective-C.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 12, 2009)

sparklefish said:


> Woohoo, just ordered my first iphone and am very excited but a little scared at having such an expensive phone.
> 
> First stupid question- Will I be able to save my contacts to my old sim and transfer them over before I activate my new sim (which will actually be magic sams as we have to swap numbers )?



Have you got a a phone with the option to export contacts as vcards?

It was really easy for me, but i had a mack with bluetooth and stuff.....

I think most phone shops can do sim transfers if you ask nicely


----------



## editor (Nov 12, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, I was reading that earlier (on my iPhone ironically). I get the impression based on his earlier statements that if it was just the fact that there was an approval process, it wouldn't be an issue - after all, if you work for Facebook, you can hardly complain about _other people_ having a "walled garden" - but it's the fact that the approval process is so rubbish and slow and inconsistent. They really do need to sort it out and about triple their staff, because loads of developers are increasingly pissed off.


Indeed. It's not like Apple aren't making a fucking mint out of all this.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 12, 2009)

It doesn't really matter how rubbish the app store approval thing is though. People will keep on buying iphones regardless. The regular consumer doesn't care about the apps that didn't make it. They just want an app store with loads of pointless apps to download, show to their mates, use once, and never actually open again.

All Apple need to do is produce a usable phone that will appeal to the less techie consumers, and then market it relentlessly and sell it at as overinflated a price as they can get away with.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 12, 2009)

teuchter said:


> It doesn't really matter how rubbish the app store approval thing is though. People will keep on buying iphones regardless. The regular consumer doesn't care about the apps that didn't make it. They just want an app store with *loads of pointless apps* to download, show to their mates, use once, and never actually open again.
> 
> All Apple need to do is produce a usable phone that will appeal to the less techie consumers, and then market it relentlessly and sell it at as overinflated a price as they can get away with.



This was true at the start and up until perhaps the middle of the year but now there are genuinely useful and decent applications on the platform.  Its really starting to mature and cannot be dismissed as easily as it once was.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 12, 2009)

teuchter said:


> It doesn't really matter how rubbish the app store approval thing is though. People will keep on buying iphones regardless. The regular consumer doesn't care about the apps that didn't make it. They just want an app store with loads of pointless apps to download, show to their mates, use once, and never actually open again.
> 
> All Apple need to do is produce a usable phone that will appeal to the less techie consumers, and then market it relentlessly and sell it at as overinflated a price as they can get away with.



But this is a big Armitage Shanks thrown out of a plane at twenty thousand feet. In that it's unsupported toilet. You might as well say "oh it doesn't matter how rubbish software are because most programs are rubbish and nobody cares, people will still buy computers".


----------



## Gromit (Nov 12, 2009)

Sunray said:


> This was true at the start and up until perhaps the middle of the year but now there are genuinely useful and decent applications on the platform.  Its really starting to mature and cannot be dismissed as easily as it once was.



I have loads of toys aps I don't use. 

However I have 8 aps I use all the time and I would consider toys at all.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 12, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> But this is a big Armitage Shanks thrown out of a plane at twenty thousand feet. In that it's unsupported toilet. You might as well say "oh it doesn't matter how rubbish software are because most programs are rubbish and nobody cares, people will still buy computers".



No, it's different to computers because a large proportion of iPhone buyers buy it largely for novelty value.

"Ooh I can go on the internet on my phone and use google maps and I can also use it as a spirit level and an electronic flute".

It's been possible to do useful stuff - like internet and GPS maps and what have you - on smartphones for some years, but generally the mass market hasn't been interested because it hasn't been as straightforward and easy as it is on the iPhone. Also these kinds of things hadn't really been marketed as big selling points. Of course, Apple's genius was to notice this, produce something that the mass market would like, and then market it very effectively.

As for third party "apps", well that concept has similarly existed since long before the iphone. But before the iphone, those apps were (mostly) fairly useful things, designed for the kind of gadgety people who would buy a smartphone.

Apple realised that this concept also hadn't been marketed effectively to the mass consumer so they set up their app store and marketed (very successfully) it as another selling point for the iPhone.

The difference, though, between your pre-iphone gadget type, and your regular iPhone owner, is that your pre-iphone gadget type would look at the range of phones available, and know what apps there were for various different OSs and which ones he wanted and that would be a significant factor in what he went for.

Whereas all the regular mass market iPhone buyer is aware of is the concept of the app store. He knows there is a load of apps there because he's seen the adverts on the telly and his friends have shown him their light sabres or whatever. He is attracted to the novelty value of being able to download all these things because that's not something he's been able to do on his phone before. He's not really interested in exactly what apps are there (he knows that there are "tens of thousands" from the Apple advertising) and he's not going to decide not to buy an iPhone because Apple have failed to approve a few more that might have otherwise been added to those tens of thousands.

Of course, gadgety techie types (ie most people posting on this thread) will care about that and get all het up about it, and it _might_ just affect their decision whether or not to buy an iPhone .... but they aren't really the main ones that apple's interested in because they make up a fairly small proportion of the market.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 12, 2009)

You really, really _care_ about this, huh?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 12, 2009)

teuchter said:


> No, it's different to computers because a large proportion of iPhone buyers buy it largely for novelty value.
> 
> "Ooh I can go on the internet on my phone and use google maps and I can also use it as a spirit level and an electronic flute".
> 
> ...



can we not just start an anti iphone thread, so the iphone users who want to discuss iphone things dont have to wade through posts and posts of tripe?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 12, 2009)

sim667 said:


> can we not just start an anti iphone thread, so the iphone users who want to discuss iphone things dont have to wade through posts and posts of tripe?



Yeah an anti apple thread would definitely make reading this easier at times...


----------



## teuchter (Nov 12, 2009)

My comments aren't "anti" anything. Just speculation as to why Apple don't seem too bothered about all the complaints about the app store approval process. Which seems to be an issue of interest to the iphone users here.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 12, 2009)

teuchter said:


> My comments aren't "anti" anything. Just speculation as to why Apple don't seem too bothered about all the complaints about the app store approval process. *Which seems to be an issue of interest to the iphone users here.*



I'd say the people that are interested in the approval process on here aren't generally iPhone owners.....


----------



## teuchter (Nov 12, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I'd say the people that are interested in the approval process on here aren't generally iPhone owners.....



It was partly in response to Fridgemagnet's comment about how he had been reading about it on his iPhone, and how he reckoned they needed to treble their approvals staff levels.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 12, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I'd say the people that are interested in the approval process on here aren't generally iPhone owners.....



^^ this....... the ones that are interested, jailbreak....... shimples (fucking meerkats).....

Sorry teuchter, i read it to myself in an angry ranting voice, and assumed you iz 0ne of the hat3rz

Also, does anyone know if the iphone 3g can connect to an 802.11n network, or is it a,b,g compatible only?


----------



## Kanda (Nov 12, 2009)

sim667 said:


> Also, does anyone know if the iphone 3g can connect to an 802.11n network, or is it a,b,g compatible only?



http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=793437


----------



## editor (Nov 12, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I'd say the people that are interested in the approval process on here aren't generally iPhone owners.....


Perhaps they're people interested in, you know, _phones and gadgets_, and seeing as the iPhone is one of the most influential phones around, find it an interesting topic of general interest?





sim667 said:


> can we not just start an anti iphone thread, so the iphone users who want to discuss iphone things dont have to wade through posts and posts of tripe?


So you only want _pro_-iPhone posts here, with any news that could be perceived as being less than positive removed from your gaze?

This is a thread about iPhone-related news, so I can't see why _all _news shouldn't go in here. I don't see why iPhone threads should be granted some sort of protection, so long as the posts are on-topic.


----------



## paolo (Nov 12, 2009)

To be fair, Teuchter doesn't really go on and on and on.

But more generally, I wonde what would happen if - having stated I didn't like Brixton, had never lived there, and never would - I posted my criticisms in the Brixton forum so relentlessly, I became the highest volume poster in that area.

Non stop. Week in, week out. Brixton's failings. Written by someone who had never lived there.

Would that irritate anyone? Do you think?


----------



## editor (Nov 12, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Non stop. Week in, week out. Brixton's failings. Written by someone who had never lived there.
> 
> Would that irritate anyone? Do you think?


What a bizarre and weirdly defensive analogy. I'm only posting the same news that appears on every other Apple iPhone blog and tech site. This is an iPhone news thread, yes?

Oh,and talking of news: TomTom confirms iPhone app update
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/29511/tomtom-iphone-app-gets-update

And even more news!


> • Apple's total sales in 2001 were $5.4 billion. Apple Stores this year: $6.6 billion. (Apple's total sales this year were $36.5 billion.)
> 
> • They hit 170 million visitors this year. 10 million people hit Genius Bars or personal training.
> 
> ...


----------



## sim667 (Nov 12, 2009)

editor said:


> This is a thread about iPhone-related news, so I can't see why _all _news shouldn't go in here. I don't see why iPhone threads should be granted some sort of protection, so long as the posts are on-topic.




There's a vast difference between discussing its merits and problems between actual iphone users and then those who dont have an iphone and just want to lay into it.....

its the people who simply want to lay into it, with no knowledgeable input that should have their anti iphone thread....... that way people who have iphones, people who use iphones can be left to discuss the relative merits and problems with the handset and network provider....

Im not saying it should be granted protection, but the amount of trolling in this thread in particular is annoying. Hence the suggestion of the anti iphone thread, a place were the trollers can troll in peace and harmony.


----------



## editor (Nov 12, 2009)

sim667 said:


> There's a vast difference between discussing its merits and problems between actual iphone users and then those who dont have an iphone and just want to lay into it.....


Where have I just "laid into" the iPhone please? Thanks. And who is "trolling" and how?


----------



## sim667 (Nov 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Where have I just "laid into" the iPhone please? Thanks. And who is "troling" and how?



where did i say you had?

Maybe 'trolling' is the wrong word, but you must see that theres a few people who pretty much hate for the sake of hating, and then come onto this thread repeatedly to voice their opinions.


----------



## editor (Nov 12, 2009)

sim667 said:


> where did i say you had?


Oh, I am sorry. So who has been repeatedly trolling this thread and "laying into" the iPhone?

I certainly don't hate the iPhone. In fact, I've praised it to the hilt several times (quotes available on request).


----------



## sim667 (Nov 12, 2009)

editor said:


> Oh, I am sorry. So who has been repeatedly trolling this thread and "laying into" the iPhone?





sim667 said:


> Maybe 'trolling' is the wrong word, but you must see that theres a few people who pretty much hate for the sake of hating, and then come onto this thread repeatedly to voice their opinions.





Forget it..... all you had to do was say 'no' to my suggestion.

And I dont know where you've got the idea from that I'm saying your a 'hater'....... infact the notion never actually crossed my mind.


----------



## spacemonkey (Nov 12, 2009)

editor said:


> And even more news!



The new apple store in Cardiff is certainly very impressive. It's hard to wander round there and _not_ want to spend all your hard earned wages on shiny apple products.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 12, 2009)

teuchter said:


> My comments aren't "anti" anything. Just speculation as to why Apple don't seem too bothered about all the complaints about the app store approval process. Which seems to be an issue of interest to the iphone users here.



Yeah, I'm up in arms about it. Saddo.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 12, 2009)

editor said:


> So you only want _pro_-iPhone posts here, with any news that could be perceived as being less than positive removed from your gaze?



No I want interesting news, highlights of new things like apps without having to wade through twenty tedious pages of bitching and counter bitching about the app approval system. I like the informational element of the thread, there is no debate it's just crap negativity that gets in the way now...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 12, 2009)

A good example is when someone posts 'hey cool the iphone can do xyz' it's really boring when you get people jumping up and down saying the ZX spectrum did that twenty years ago etc. Who cares? Seriously, no one in their right mind posts like that as Apple are the first to do it...they're just sharing an interesting discovery which other people might like to know.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 12, 2009)

I don't really think we all want to sit around acting like fan bois...but we could do with less of the incessant negativity.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 12, 2009)

People get dead tribal over their choices though, eh.

I've just had to restore mine. Grrr. Stupid bloody thing, etc.

Wouldn't have happened if I had a Nokia.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 12, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> People get dead tribal over their choices though, eh.



Indeed very few people like the feeling they might have wasted their money. But even beyond that, constantly point out the flaws with the iPhone to a bunch of iPhone owners really gets you nowhere.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 12, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> I've just had to restore mine. Grrr. Stupid bloody thing, etc



You could do that on sony ericssons years ago


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 12, 2009)

I'll leave the comical porcelain metaphors then. I would like to say however: O2 what the fuck are you playIng at with this rubbish connection, dropping me in and out of 3G when I know there's a mast just down the road? Honestly, you make t mobile look good at the moment.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 12, 2009)

sim667 said:


> You could do that on sony ericssons years ago


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 12, 2009)

sim667 said:


> You could do that on sony ericssons years ago



I remember the first time I said "sorry, I've just got to reboot my phone" to someone. They were dead impressed. Good thing too as there wasn't much else impressive about a nooia 3650, very Fisher-Price.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 13, 2009)

Well, I like it.


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> No I want interesting news, highlights of new things like apps without having to wade through twenty tedious pages of bitching and counter bitching about the app approval system. I like the informational element of the thread, there is no debate it's just crap negativity that gets in the way now...


Why not start a new thread called, "iPhone apps and tech help" and then you won't have to be troubled by any iPhone-related news or comments about Apple's business practices that aren't 100% positive and congratulatory?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 13, 2009)

editor said:


> Why not start a new thread called, "iPhone apps and tech help" and then you won't have to be troubled by any iPhone-related news or comments about Apple's business practices that aren't 100% positive and congratulatory?



No need to be snide; I already said I'm not interested in fan boi adulation of the devices/company but repeatedly banging on and on and on about the app approval process erodes the usefulness of this thread. 

There are more of us who are prepared to discuss the iPhone etc sensibly than not, if anything the hardened naysayers are the ones that should start a 'App approval/iPhone critique' thread!


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2009)

spacemonkey said:


> The new apple store in Cardiff is certainly very impressive. It's hard to wander round there and _not_ want to spend all your hard earned wages on shiny apple products.


 
Why do you think that I've not visited it yet?

My huge desire to spend in there would only be match by my huge inability to afford it. Not a nice combination.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2009)

editor said:


> Why not start a new thread called, "iPhone apps and tech help" and then you won't have to be troubled by any iPhone-related news or comments about Apple's business practices that aren't 100% positive and congratulatory?


 
We have a Mobile Aps thread already.

Which should in my opinion be made sticky to stop people starting new thread and make it easier to find when a new cool ap comes out that someone wishes to share views on. Seeing as there is quite often a large delay between really notable aps being released.


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 13, 2009)

Gotta love xkcd.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2009)

Is there a way to find out which mobile has the most apps available for it?

I'm guessing iPhone despite the rejections and delays in the approval process.

I just looked at a list of Top Ten games for the Android. No sign of a big games manufaturer anywhere.

So for all its rejections Apple still look like having the best content around.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 13, 2009)

100k apps for the iphone makes it, by light years the most comprehensively catered for mobile device.  

Made possible because there is just one device to target. 

I still cant understand why Apple does not let you browse the Apps via a normal web page?


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Is there a way to find out which mobile has the most apps available for it?
> 
> I'm guessing iPhone despite the rejections and delays in the approval process.
> 
> ...


Apple has - by far  -the most apps available and some of them are absolutely brilliant. 

That said, the vast majority of apps endlessly repeat the same functionality or are completely shit/pointless/flippant and only a tiny percentage of the apps available actually get used regularly. 

Most smartphone platforms will offer all the functionality and apps you need, but if you're looking for more of a gaming platform, then the iPhone is way ahead of the pack (at the expense of the phone part, which is not something the iphone excels at).


----------



## g force (Nov 13, 2009)

How does it not exel at being a phone? You can make/receive calls, texts, MMS, internet, push email. It excels in every department of being a smartphone.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 13, 2009)

They've got a 2-3 year head start on everyone else (especially regarding C based development kits, Android only released theirs this year and Palm have yet to, if they ever will, Java games are just too lame), as everyone attempts to duplicate whatever apple does.

It's funny because Apple hate games and gamers but that's what the iPhone/iPod platform is becoming known for, which cheers me up, as that particular control-freak attitude has always pissed me off, I'd prefer not to have to boot into XP everytime I want to play a decent game for a couple of hours.
link


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 13, 2009)

editor said:


> Apple has - by far  -the most apps available and some of them are absolutely brilliant.
> 
> That said, the vast majority of apps endlessly repeat the same functionality or are completely shit/pointless/flippant and only a tiny percentage of the apps available actually get used regularly.
> 
> Most smartphone platforms will offer all the functionality and apps you need, but if you're looking for more of a gaming platform, then the iPhone is way ahead of the pack (at the expense of the phone part, which is not something the iphone excels at).



It's the best phone of any smartphone I've used.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 13, 2009)

g force said:


> How does it not exel at being a phone? You can make/receive calls, texts, MMS, internet, push email. It excels in every department of being a smartphone.



And the call quality is fabulous - way, way better than my last two Windows smartphones.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 13, 2009)

editor said:


> Apple has - by far  -the most apps available and some of them are absolutely brilliant.
> 
> That said, the vast majority of apps endlessly repeat the same functionality or are completely shit/pointless/flippant and only a tiny percentage of the apps available actually get used regularly.
> 
> *Most smartphone platforms will offer all the functionality and apps you need*, but if you're looking for more of a gaming platform, then the iPhone is way ahead of the pack (at the expense of the phone part, which is not something the iphone excels at).



Not according to this bloke: putting my palm pre on notice

That tiny percentage (and 1% is 1000 apps) of good apps are exceptional it has to be said. I recently noticed that Snapture is now on the App Store and Photoshop have an app out - but unavailable on the dutch winkel, typical Adobe attitude to foreign markets (they never released CS3 updates to their Dutch versions).


----------



## teuchter (Nov 13, 2009)

editor said:


> Apple has - by far  -the most apps available and some of them are absolutely brilliant.
> 
> That said, the vast majority of apps endlessly repeat the same functionality or are completely shit/pointless/flippant and only a tiny percentage of the apps available actually get used regularly.
> 
> Most smartphone platforms will offer all the functionality and apps you need, but if you're looking for more of a gaming platform, then the iPhone is way ahead of the pack (at the expense of the phone part, which is not something the iphone excels at).



An article sort of about this here...

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/feat..._my_Smartphone_and_Im_still_rolling_along.php


----------



## g force (Nov 13, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> And the call quality is fabulous - way, way better than my last two Windows smartphones.



Tin cans and string were better than some WM phones i've had to use!


----------



## Sunray (Nov 13, 2009)

My phone is now 16 months old and its starting to show signs of wear and tear. 

I am noticing that the battery isn't what it was and lets face it, none of these start from some stellar base.  There are now 3 dead pixels and one is like a slightly cracked screen though its not cracked. Nothing I can't live with but I wonder if it will get to the end of 2 years without Apple having to replace it?

I have the extended Apple Care warranty.

e2a : Actually I just had a good look and it appear I have a load of dead pixels.  At least 8 or so. Wonder what the screen replacement limit is?


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> And the call quality is fabulous - way, way better than my last two Windows smartphones.


 
The 2G call quality is passable. Doesn't excel compared to other 2G handsets.

However 3G call quality is good imo.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2009)

Sunray said:


> My phone is now 16 months old and its starting to show signs of wear and tear.
> 
> I am noticing that the battery isn't what it was and lets face it, none of these start from some stellar base. There are now 3 dead pixels and one is like a slightly cracked screen though its not cracked. Nothing I can't live with but I wonder if it will get to the end of 2 years without Apple having to replace it?
> 
> I have the extended Apple Care warranty.


 
Thats my one worry about signing up for a 3GS for 2 whole years. 
Will the battery deteriorate beyond an acceptable level in that time?

With a replacable battery i would have just bit the bullet and bought a spare.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 13, 2009)

Sunray said:


> e2a : Actually I just had a good look and it appear I have a load of dead pixels.  At least 8 or so. Wonder what the screen replacement limit is?



I know if its a computer screen its 3...... i would certainly send a screen back for three dead pixels.


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Not according to this bloke: putting my palm pre on notice


Try as I might, I'm struggling to find any relevance in that link to what I said. 

I said "most smartphone platforms will offer all the functionality and apps you need," and I absolutely stand by that statement. 

I didn't mention webOS, and I certainly didn't say that it would satisfy the needs of an _advanced power user_ like that one individual you've referred to.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 13, 2009)

Sunray said:


> My phone is now 16 months old and its starting to show signs of wear and tear.
> 
> I am noticing that the battery isn't what it was and lets face it, none of these start from some stellar base.  There are now 3 dead pixels and one is like a slightly cracked screen though its not cracked. Nothing I can't live with but I wonder if it will get to the end of 2 years without Apple having to replace it?
> 
> ...



Mine's about the same age, no dead pixels as far as I can tell, but a few scratches on the glass, since I took the antiscratch thingey off. Battery life is getting worse, but not as bad as I would have thought after such a length of time. I've got in the habit of charging it so often though and I always have my charging unit with me. The battery life got better recently though, I suspect I was in-between cell-towers or something at my old job. 
Mind you, I've never used a phone so much, it's basically my laptop.

On the whole though, I'm quite impressed with its build, though I suppose keeping a cover on it helps. I'm hoping I can transfer this one to my missus and get the latest one next year - it better have backgrounding...


----------



## Structaural (Nov 13, 2009)

editor said:


> Try as I might, I'm struggling to find any relevance in that link to what I said.
> 
> I said "most smartphone platforms will offer all the functionality and apps you need," and I absolutely stand by that statement.
> 
> I didn't mention webOS, and I certainly didn't say that it would satisfy the needs of an _advanced power user_ like that one individual you've referred to.



Bit presumptuous of you to talk of other's needs isn't it? They might be an 'advanced power user', which case they might find the Pre lacking, like that user. So it is relevant to your presumptive statement.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 13, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> It's the best phone of any smartphone I've used.



Yep, me too.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 13, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Thats my one worry about signing up for a 3GS for 2 whole years.
> Will the battery deteriorate beyond an acceptable level in that time?
> 
> With a replacable battery i would have just bit the bullet and bought a spare.



Save up and get it PAYG?  Its 440 quid but you don't have to worry about contract.  You can even unlock for 15 quid extra.

I have my doubt that it will get to 24 months without the lcd being replaced.  Those pixels have gone dead in the last couple of months.


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Bit presumptuous of you to talk of other's needs isn't it?


Have you actually got a point here r are you just nitpicking for the sake of it?

The reason I can say that most people are happy with the functionality offered on their phones is that they go out and buy the things in the first place, and when user satisfaction surveys are made, generally declare themselves reasonable happy with what it does.

However, if you've got evidence to the contrary, be sure to post it up.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 13, 2009)

editor said:


> Have you actually got a point here r are you just nitpicking for the sake of it?
> 
> The reason I can say that most people are happy with the functionality offered on their phones is that they go out and buy the things in the first place, and when user satisfaction surveys are made, generally declare themselves reasonable happy with what it does.
> 
> However, if you've got evidence to the contrary, be sure to post it up.



I did. Unhappy Pre owner - up the thread^ (anecdotal I know, but I wasn't actually offering evidence against this new point of yours, but was merely challenging your assertion that *all* needs will be met by most smartphones). 

You can only talk of your own needs not mine or anyone else's. You said: "most smartphone platforms will offer *all* the functionality and apps you need," and I disagreed, you've now changed that to 'most people are happy with the smartphone they've chosen', so I may be nitpicking, but you're changing the subject. 
They've got to choose the right phone to begin with as around 20±% of smartphone users aren't satisfied. 

Anyway, I'm sure we can leave it there...


This is interesting re: satisfaction:



> The Apple iPhone seems to be not only the leader in consumer satisfaction, but also sees the best loyalty and recommendations. According to the study, 92 percent of iPhone users said they had the perfect device, 90 percent recommended it, and 35 percent said they bought it based on recommendation. The survey shows that Android and Palm Pre are catching up with the iPhone due to consumer-oriented activities they deliver, including apps, web-browsing and multimedia. The full results of the CFI Group Smartphone Satisfaction Survey can be found here.


iPhone on 83% 
Pre on 77% satisfaction along with Android 
Blackberry on 73%
Windows/Symbian: 66%

link


----------



## maximilian ping (Nov 13, 2009)

just bought iphone 3GS (i know, i'm a div) and wondering whether i have to buy one of apple's stupidly pricey protection covers/sleeves. any alternatives?


----------



## maximilian ping (Nov 13, 2009)

ps. the set up instructions are shit. i had to virtually employ my own IT consultant* to do it for me

*bought my mate lunch in exchange for him getting it up and running


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2009)

Structaural said:


> I did. Unhappy Pre owner - up the thread^ (anecdotal I know, but I wasn't actually offering evidence against this new point of yours, but was merely challenging your assertion that *all* needs will be met by most smartphones). http://news.softpedia.com/news/User...with-iPhone-Palm-Pre-and-Android-123081.shtml


_Where the fuck_ did I actually say that, please?

And your stats simply back up what I'm saying: the majority of users (i.e 'most') are satisfied with their handsets.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2009)

maximilian ping said:


> ps. the set up instructions are shit. i had to virtually employ my own IT consultant* to do it for me
> 
> *bought my mate lunch in exchange for him getting it up and running


 
Pah! Its easy.

Install iTunes
Plug phone into PC
Follow the prompts


----------



## Structaural (Nov 13, 2009)

editor said:


> _Where the fuck_ did I actually say that, please?
> 
> And your stats simply back up what I'm saying: the majority of users (i.e 'most') are satisfied with their handsets.



http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=9943480&postcount=4609

you then quoted the same post further down...



> 'most smartphone platforms will offer *all* the functionality and apps you need'





It only backs up what you're now saying, not what you said in that post.

Also, the iPhone is pretty good at the phone part - visual voicemail (no need to  phone up the operator) and the ability to browse the internet, contacts and check emails while on a call, unlike, say the pre or the droid.


----------



## maximilian ping (Nov 13, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Pah! Its easy.
> 
> Install iTunes
> Plug phone into PC
> Follow the prompts



yes, i am a bit of a div

is there any way of getting some decent ringtones/alert tones. the ones they have are nasty


----------



## Structaural (Nov 13, 2009)

maximilian ping said:


> yes, i am a bit of a div
> 
> is there any way of getting some decent ringtones/alert tones. the ones they have are nasty



Make 'em with iTunes (or pay 1.29€ each from the store (!!!!), how can they cost more than a normal tune?):


----------



## grit (Nov 13, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Make 'em with iTunes (or pay 1.29€ each from the store (!!!!), how can they cost more than a normal tune?):




Prob some bullshit excuse like a ring tone is for public performance or something


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 13, 2009)

Another good dev company pissed off and leaving due to app store inconsistencies and delays: http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/2009/11/13/airfoil-speakers-touch-1-0-1-finally-ships/ (also commented on by Gruber here and here, and when _Gruber_ puts the boot into Apple you can usually be pretty sure there's something seriously wrong).

The thing is that the app store is good because, while, yes, there's a lot of pointless crap on it, there are lots of apps that are _really good_. It has a great interface too, sure, it's very convenient and easy to buy from and that's part of why it's been successful, but when serious developers start saying "this isn't worth it any more", all you end up with is people who are just making low quality novelty apps for a quick buck. Apple can't sell the iPhone using the app store without a good number of seriously decent apps; if it just gets the reputation of having a bunch of crappy timewasters and overpriced EA stuff, that's, er, game over, and you're just a phone like everyone else again. It would take a while to get to that point, there are still lots of good apps there, but they should be thinking a bit longer term.


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2009)

Structaural said:


> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=9943480&postcount=4609
> 
> you then quoted the same post further down...


I can see that you're hell bent on proving a Really Big Point here, but no matter how much you selectively quote my words or pull them out of context, it still adds up to you putting words in my mouth. Oh well. Whatever.


Structaural said:


> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=9943480&postcount=4609
> Also, the iPhone is pretty good at the phone part - visual voicemail (no need to phone up the operator) and the ability to browse the internet, contacts and check emails while on a call, unlike, say the pre or the droid.


You're talking utter cobblers, squire. The Pre lets you browse the internet, contacts and check emails while on a call. Actually, it does it _better_ than the iPhone thanks to its superb multi-tasking abilities.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2009)

Here is an interesting one.

Jamie Oliver's new app. Upon trying to install it I was told i did not have enough space.

Looked at the app size 404MB.
Looked at remaining space 511MB.

I erased a couple of videos so that i had 700MB spare. Still not enough.
Took off a large film so that i had 1.2GB spare.

It now installed.

I put all the videos I removed back on and i have 161MB spare now.

Just to prove that i did have enough space all along? Why the fuck should i need twice the space than an app's size to install it?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 13, 2009)

Lots of apps store data above and beyond their listed size. I wouldn't go about with an iPhone that only had 100 meg spare - sounds like a lot, but some program caching things could eat that up very quickly.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Lots of apps store data above and beyond their listed size. I wouldn't go about with an iPhone that only had 100 meg spare - sounds like a lot, but some program caching things could eat that up very quickly.



In my opinion I should be able to use every last MB of available memory. If Apple want Apps to use memory to cache stuff they should lock and hide a certain amount of it away from me.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 13, 2009)

Well, they did try!


----------



## Gromit (Nov 13, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, they did try!



lol.

Well i see what they have tried to do is more like reserving space but still showing it as available. Allowing me to install stuff over the reserved space.

Far better if they somehow fill that space on info bar with whatever the maximum cache required by my apps is. Other, music, video, cache etc.


----------



## alan2001 (Nov 14, 2009)

maximilian ping said:


> just bought iphone 3GS (i know, i'm a div) and wondering whether i have to buy one of apple's stupidly pricey protection covers/sleeves. any alternatives?


why do you think you're a div for buying it? 

buy a cover if you like, have a look on ebay, there are hunners of different types, many of them for about £2. you're a div if you buy an Apple one.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 14, 2009)

maximilian ping said:


> just bought iphone 3GS (*i know, i'm a div*) and wondering whether i have to buy one of apple's stupidly pricey protection covers/sleeves. any alternatives?



There is a 186 page thread for a reason.

I have repeatedly mentioned that all you really need is one of these.  Do it well and its practically invisible.  When its gets overly scratched replace it with a new one.  Come in pairs.

http://store.apple.com/uk/product/TS505LL/A?fnode=MTY1NDA0NA&mco=MTM3NTMzMzg

The horrible rubber covers make it look really ugly and chances are that they will stay on till the phone is replaced.


----------



## Structaural (Nov 14, 2009)

editor said:


> I can see that you're hell bent on proving a Really Big Point here, but no matter how much you selectively quote my words or pull them out of context, it still adds up to you putting words in my mouth. Oh well. Whatever.
> You're talking utter cobblers, squire. The Pre lets you browse the internet, contacts and check emails while on a call. Actually, it does it _better_ than the iPhone thanks to its superb multi-tasking abilities.



Oh please , whatever indeed, because quoting you verbatim is putting words in your mouth and referencing your entire post is pulling them out of context. Loving the faux hurt instead of just admitting you meant 'most'  instead of 'all'. But then that takes a big man.
You continue to live on planet 'I'm never wrong' and we'll carry on on planet real.

It seems that the Pre was scuppered under Sprint in the US, but that's not the case over here. My mistake. Back to iPhones...


----------



## Structaural (Nov 14, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Here is an interesting one.
> 
> Jamie Oliver's new app. Upon trying to install it I was told i did not have enough space.
> 
> ...



It downloads an installer - whatever size that is. It then needs to install the whole thing into additional space and deletes the installer. So it needs at least twice the installer size - just like on your normal computer.

Quite a polished app that one, I made the tikka the other day. Was very nice.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 14, 2009)

http://www.hotukdeals.com/item/528162/my-french-coach-by-ubisoft-on-the-i


----------



## editor (Nov 25, 2009)

Now available at Tesco!


----------



## Gromit (Nov 25, 2009)

editor said:


> Now available at Tesco!


 
I do wish you'd stop bad mouthing iPhone by mentioning every negative news article 

(Tesco are considered the Supermarket of Satan on these boards are they not?)


----------



## Gromit (Nov 25, 2009)

Structaural said:


> Quite a polished app that one, I made the tikka the other day. Was very nice.


 
Thats the first recipe I'm intending to try. Haven't managed to shop for ingredients yet though.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 25, 2009)

I have now paid for two apps. 
Am I now addicted or is it still early days?


----------



## Gromit (Nov 25, 2009)

Badgers said:


> I have now paid for two apps.
> Am I now addicted or is it still early days?


 
Early days. Join a support group now to help you stop before its too late.

Which two out of curiousity?


----------



## Badgers (Nov 25, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Early days. Join a support group now to help you stop before its too late.
> 
> Which two out of curiousity?



Tube Exits
AppBox Pro


----------



## Gromit (Nov 25, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Tube Exits


 
Oh dear. I can just imagine it now. One carriage full of self important time is money London types all brandishing iPhone crammed into the same space cause an ap has told them that they can beat other people to the exit and get them to their important million pound deal meeting quicker.

I have a tube driver mate who serves the same purpose when i'm in London


----------



## teuchter (Nov 25, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Tube Exits



It is simply NOT COOL to use a computer to aid you around the tube network. You should have this knowledge in your head. And pass it down to future generations, in a secretive manner. If you have to resort to peering at your phone there will be nothing to distinguish you from the tourists and provincials.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 25, 2009)

Gromit said:


> Oh dear. I can just imagine it now. One carriage full of self important time is money London types all brandishing iPhone crammed into the same space cause an ap has told them that they can beat other people to the exit and get them to their important million pound deal meeting quicker.








teuchter said:


> It is simply NOT COOL to use a computer to aid you around the tube network. You should have this knowledge in your head. And pass it down to future generations, in a secretive manner. If you have to resort to peering at your phone there will be nothing to distinguish you from the tourists and provincials.



I failed then?


----------



## paolo (Nov 25, 2009)

teuchter said:


> It is simply NOT COOL to use a computer to aid you around the tube network. You should have this knowledge in your head. And pass it down to future generations, in a secretive manner. If you have to resort to peering at your phone there will be nothing to distinguish you from the tourists and provincials.





It's a slippery slope. One moment you've got the whole system sorted, the next you're standing at the bottom of escalators wearing brightly coloured rucksacks.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 25, 2009)

Just the other day someone was telling me about this tube app. Quite excitedly. I don't think I looked as impressed as he'd hoped.

He was a Canadian.

He also took pictures of our group, inside a ("British") pub. 

Later, he tried to use that other app that identifies music tracks, to identify something playing on the British Pub PA. It didn't work.

I gave him some recommendations for things to see in London. He made a note of these in his iPhone. That app seemed to work fine.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Nov 25, 2009)

editor said:


> Now available at Tesco!


I just registered my interest on their site
it is on Tesco Mobile too!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 25, 2009)

editor said:


> Now available at Tesco!



This is the one time I'd like to see Tesco use it's exception market position to subsidise the iPhone, sell it cheap as hell and fuck with Orange and O2.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 25, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Just the other day someone was telling me about this tube app. Quite excitedly. I don't think I looked as impressed as he'd hoped.
> 
> He was a Canadian.
> 
> ...


 
I use a tube ap. Can't be bothered memorising the network despite the amount of time i seem to spend in London lately.

Shazam music ap is great. Used it loads of time to ID some radio tracks on the way to Sheffield. It did struggle with two tracks but one was quite obscure and the other was a classical track.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 26, 2009)

Looks like a good deal to me. I have struggled getting used to the battery thing on the iPhone so far.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 27, 2009)

I now realise why the TomTom car kit is so expensive. 

Its because its a partial SatNav system without a screen.  Its using the new functionality of V3 of the OS and Bluetooth.  The kit itself has one of the defacto satnav chips in it and the phone communicates with that via Bluetooth for its GPS data.  Hence the price.  Slightly unnecessary because the GPS on the phone isn't too bad.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 27, 2009)

Downloaded camera plus this morning which is nifty (for free) and helps us 2G people


----------



## Badgers (Nov 28, 2009)

Anyone using Ping?


----------



## grit (Nov 28, 2009)

I dont want to imagine what it would have been like to move to London a few months ago and not have an iphone.

In trying to get to grips with a new city and country its been invaluable. Standing out a street being able to cut and paste a postcode into google maps and get directions to places along with the tube applications (there doesnt seem to be a bus equivelent which is disapointing).

I've had a few occasions standing in a party at 5am with no idea where in london I am and can easily figure out a way home


----------



## Badgers (Nov 28, 2009)

grit said:


> I dont want to imagine what it would have been like to move to London a few months ago and not have an iphone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 28, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Anyone using Ping?



I was but found it a bit flaky, WhatsApp is better ime.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 28, 2009)

^ that


----------



## Badgers (Nov 28, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Looks like a good deal to me. I have struggled getting used to the battery thing on the iPhone so far.



Did order this so will see how it is. 
Might make the phone too bulky for daily use but good for long journeys and stuff.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 28, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I was but found it a bit flaky, WhatsApp is better ime.





FridgeMagnet said:


> ^ that



The price is right (free) so will give that one a try.


----------



## mhwfc (Nov 29, 2009)

grit said:


> In trying to get to grips with a new city and country its been invaluable. Standing out a street being able to cut and paste a postcode into google maps and get directions to places along with the tube applications (*there doesnt seem to be a bus equivelent which is disapointing*).



Try the London Bus planner, it's a well put together app from the same developer as Tube Deluxe and Tube Status

http://itunes.apple.com/gb/app/london-bus/id314614955?mt=8


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 30, 2009)

edit double post


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 30, 2009)

My 3GS will be delivered today.. FINALLY  What do I need to buy next?  I read that some new earphones will be essential (seinheissers), the film screen protector (2 for £10 at apple...are the cheaper ones in phone shops exactly the same just repackaged)...and what about actual cases?  There's so many  do I get the half-style case whatever it's called, that just covers the back and side (any brands to look for), or the full leather case (any decent brands) to slip the iphone in...or both?

Planning a trip to town, so can;t be bothered to look for cheaper alternatives, except the earphones I'll get online.  We have an apple, selfridges, dixons, currys and all the usual phone shops..as well as those cheap stand alone phone accessories stalls...where to look? 

Ps I had a dream that I scratched the back of my iphone (which I don't even have in my possession yet)..is this the beggining of the end?


----------



## g force (Nov 30, 2009)

Def get a screen protector...after that I dunno up to you really. some of the incase range are nice but make the phone very bulky (unless you have massive pockets!)


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 30, 2009)

the fen_wife dropped her 3GS at the weekend and the screen is cracked from top to bottom, still works fine, but does anyone have advice on where to get it repaired?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 30, 2009)

fen_boy said:


> the fen_wife dropped her 3GS at the weekend and the screen is cracked from top to bottom, still works fine, but does anyone have advice on where to get it repaired?



Apple do this but I think it's something like £180...


----------



## Xanadu (Nov 30, 2009)

grit said:


> I dont want to imagine what it would have been like to move to London a few months ago and not have an iphone.
> 
> In trying to get to grips with a new city and country its been invaluable. Standing out a street being able to cut and paste a postcode into google maps and get directions to places along with the tube applications (there doesnt seem to be a bus equivelent which is disapointing).
> 
> I've had a few occasions standing in a party at 5am with no idea where in london I am and can easily figure out a way home



Cos that's something you couldn't do before the iPhone came out?

I've had Google Maps with GPS for ages.



btw, I'm getting fed up of waiting for the Blackberry 9700, and am starting to consider the iPhone.  What sort of battery life are people getting on day to day use (not using wi-fi or any apps)?


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 30, 2009)

I've heard of people taking it to an Apple shop and getting a straight swap for a brand new phone


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 30, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apple do this but I think it's something like £180...



I suspected that they'd charge the earth. There's videos on youtube showing how you can do it yourself, but she won't do it and won't let me do it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 30, 2009)

fen_boy said:


> I suspected that they'd charge the earth. There's videos on youtube showing how you can do it yourself, but she won't do it and won't let me do it.



Well...the choices are DIY screen replacement, new iPhone or paying Apple...


----------



## editor (Nov 30, 2009)

The Sun newspaper spoofs iPhone ads in YouTube viral ad - and it's actually quite amusing.
http://bit.ly/7Sfoev


----------



## Pie 1 (Dec 1, 2009)

Got my 3G S upgrade the other day. I'm very impressed overall with the faster speeds etc.

Voice Command sucks a big hairy one: 2 out of 10 numbers were correctly dialed on my trial & the VC for ipod just as useless.

NearestWiki app is a really impressive demonstration of what's on the cards with the camera, compass, gps & internet all working together.

Camera's certainly been improved, but sill has a looooong way to go.

Nice little app called iTimelapse works very well now as well.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 1, 2009)

The camera is perhaps their last area of real improvement, so expect a much better on revision 4.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 1, 2009)

Sunray said:


> revision 4.



When? When? When?


----------



## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

Xanadu said:


> Cos that's something you couldn't do before the iPhone came out?



 Heretic!



> btw, I'm getting fed up of waiting for the Blackberry 9700, and am starting to consider the iPhone.  What sort of battery life are people getting on day to day use (not using wi-fi or any apps)?



Have you considered the Nokia N900? I'm a bit wary of Nokia at the moment due to the problems with the N97, one of which I have, but I am thinking I might trade it in for an N900 shortly. The reviews I've seen so far seem very positive. It certainly looks like it will be significantly more capable than the iphone - in every regard (with the exception perhaps of sheeple trend factor).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 1, 2009)

Badgers said:


> When? When? When?



Next June. Being tested at the moment according to rumours....


----------



## Xanadu (Dec 1, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Heretic!
> 
> 
> 
> Have you considered the Nokia N900? I'm a bit wary of Nokia at the moment due to the problems with the N97, one of which I have, but I am thinking I might trade it in for an N900 shortly. The reviews I've seen so far seem very positive. It certainly looks like it will be significantly more capable than the iphone - in every regard (with the exception perhaps of sheeple trend factor).



Resistive touch screen is made of fail, and the battery life doesn't look too good.  It's also fairly chunky/heavy.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

Xanadu said:


> Resistive touch screen is made of fail, and the battery life doesn't look too good.  It's also fairly chunky/heavy.



I don't get why people don't like resistive screens. I prefer them - much more accurate.

The battery life is reportedly similar to the 3GS. 

Haven't seen one in real life yet so can't comment on whether the size is an issue.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 1, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Next June. Being tested at the moment according to rumours....



So there could be a new iPhone in June and my contract runs out end of Jan. Can I wait 5-6 months for my next iPhone?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 1, 2009)

Gromit said:


> So there could be a new iPhone in June and my contract runs out end of Jan. Can I wait 5-6 months for my next iPhone?



Heh they update every June at the moment...


----------



## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

Gromit said:


> So there could be a new iPhone in June and my contract runs out end of Jan. Can I wait 5-6 months for my next iPhone?



Do iPhones vanish into thin air when associated contracts run out?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Dec 1, 2009)

Yes, of course.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 1, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Do iPhones vanish into thin air when associated contracts run out?



Don't be silly. 

They travel to an iPhone graveyard somewhere in Africa which explorers have been trying to find for years. 

I'd like a faster one with longer battery life. My battery ain't bad but what will it be like by May is what worries me. 

It's worth waiting a couple of months to sync with June releases though I think.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

Can't you just get a new battery?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Dec 1, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Can't you just get a new battery?



As if you don't already know the answer to this, you disingenuous prick...


----------



## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> As if you don't already know the answer to this, you disingenuous prick...



Breathe deeply...calm down

It's not impossible. Up to step 10 here:

http://www.rapidrepair.com/guides/iphone3g/iphone3grepairguide.html

Doesn't look too difficult as long as you have the right screwdriver

I have successfully replaced RAM chips in my Mac Mini even though you're not supposed to be able to yourself. And I'm not any kind of electronics repair expert.


----------



## paolo (Dec 1, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I don't get why people don't like resistive screens.



Various factors.

If you take gestures - e.g. a quick flick to scroll, or side swipe on WebOS to switch cards - they work far better on capacitative screens.

The of course there's multi-touch. It's an integral part of web browsing on the iPhone, i.e. pull/pinch to zoom.

For virtual keyboards, my liking - and one I've heard from other people - is that you can 'tap', instead of press. The multi-touch also has one very very important fundamental, that is 'n' key rollover*. This was something established as critical for typing, back in the late seventies when the first personal computers came on sale. If you try typing on a keyboard (of any kind) without rollover, it is painful.

It's possible that some resistive screens / accompanying OS support rollover, but there is a recent phone that doesn't (might be the Droid? Can't remember)

* Rollover = In a sequence of key strokes, they may overlap in time, i.e. a following key is pressed before the previous is released.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 1, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Various factors.
> 
> If you take gestures - e.g. a quick flick to scroll, or side swipe on WebOS to switch cards - they work far better on capacitative screens.
> 
> ...



I can see the argument about multi-touch/rollover if you're using a virtual keyboard - but that doesn't really matter if you've got a real qwerty keyboard. (I seem to remember that multitouch isn't actually impossible on a resistive screen?)

Aside from issues with typing I find multitouch gestures a bit gimmicky. The N900 deals with zooming with a circular motion with one finger. Apart from anything else, multitouch is fairly useless if you are using a phone one-handed, which is what I do much of the time.

Also, I find I "tap" rather than "press" on a resistive screen: I just use the end of my fingernail rather than a big clumsy finger. I don't have to exert any pressure and it feels more natural to me. And it's much easier to hit smaller targets.

Obviously a lot of it's just what you're used to.


----------



## paolo (Dec 1, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I can see the argument about multi-touch/rollover if you're using a virtual keyboard - but that doesn't really matter if you've got a real qwerty keyboard. (I seem to remember that multitouch isn't actually impossible on a resistive screen?)



Yep. Certainly any hardware keyboard ought to support rollover. And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if resistive can theoretically support multitouch/rollover, although I'd be curious to know how many actually do.



> Aside from issues with typing I find multitouch gestures a bit gimmicky. The N900 deals with zooming with a circular motion with one finger. Apart from anything else, multitouch is fairly useless if you are using a phone one-handed, which is what I do much of the time.



Multitouch zoom is very intuitive. It zooms and pans in one go. Much as you would, say, use a pair of zooming binoculars. Imagine those same binoculars where you you could only zoom or pan, not both. Zoom a bit, pan bit, repeat until you get your target spot. It's not a natural 



> Also, I find I "tap" rather than "press" on a resistive screen: I just use the end of my fingernail rather than a big clumsy finger. I don't have to exert any pressure and it feels more natural to me. And it's much easier to hit smaller targets.



Fair dos. I'm curious though - can you 'two finger' type like that? I'm trying to imagine how you can bend both thumbs to get a nail strike. I've just tried doing that it doesn't work for me. Obviously you mileage may vary.



> Obviously a lot of it's just what you're used to.



I think that's true in terms of hard key vs. virtual. I'm yet to be convinced about resistive, but that may be just me.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 2, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Fair dos. I'm curious though - can you 'two finger' type like that? I'm trying to imagine how you can bend both thumbs to get a nail strike. I've just tried doing that it doesn't work for me. Obviously you mileage may vary.



Well, if I'm doing two finger typing I'm doing it on the hardware keyboard so it's not an issue.

If I've got the keyboard closed and using the phone in portrait mode, then I'm holding it in one hand and doing T9 typing with one thumb on the onscreen dialer pad. Then the angle of my thumb seems quite natural (more so than if it's in two-handed landscape mode).

If I'm scrolling around web pages and clicking on links and stuff, I'm doing that with my thumb in portrait mode but I tend to use a mixture of index finger and thumb if I've got it in landscape mode. If that makes any sense.


----------



## Kanda (Dec 2, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Well, if I'm doing two finger typing I'm doing it on the hardware keyboard so it's not an issue.
> 
> If I've got the keyboard closed and using the phone in portrait mode, then I'm holding it in one hand and doing T9 typing with one thumb on the onscreen dialer pad. Then the angle of my thumb seems quite natural (more so than if it's in two-handed landscape mode).
> 
> If I'm scrolling around web pages and clicking on links and stuff, I'm doing that with my thumb in portrait mode but I tend to use a mixture of index finger and thumb if I've got it in landscape mode. If that makes any sense.



tl:dr


----------



## teuchter (Dec 2, 2009)

.


----------



## kazza007 (Dec 3, 2009)

Been using my 3gs for a day and it's great...my first Apple product...I know, behind the times, but I prefer to call it 'resisiting mass commercial brainwashing like the rest of the population' lol  anyway, what's the best way of getting FM radio on it?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 3, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> Been using my 3gs for a day and it's great...my first Apple product...I know, behind the times, but I prefer to call it 'resisiting mass commercial brainwashing like the rest of the population' lol  anyway, what's the best way of getting FM radio on it?



Quite a few apps out there that do streaming channels over 3g.  Search the App store for them.


----------



## fjydj (Dec 3, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> Been using my 3gs for a day and it's great...my first Apple product...I know, behind the times, but I prefer to call it 'resisiting mass commercial brainwashing like the rest of the population' lol  anyway, what's the best way of getting FM radio on it?



i can recommend a free app called iCarRadio lite, its got the BBC stations on it and thousands of others. Only thing is I don't think it uses an FM tuner though. But it works and its free.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2009)

I can't decide if the 16gb version is worth the extra £87

Yes, I've still not upgraded my phone.


----------



## live_jayeola (Dec 3, 2009)

There seem to be FM radios for virgin, jazz FM and classical FM. Not found a generic "listen to any FM station" app from the iphone yet.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 3, 2009)

My 3GS is going kaput. Keeps saying 'charging is not supported with this accessory' when not plugged in to anything. Every minute or so. Killing the battery life.

Have unjailbroken, etc, but it's still doing it. If I don't have insurance, what will O2 say if I call them about it?

Time to recommence the insurance?!


----------



## Kanda (Dec 3, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> My 3GS is going kaput. Keeps saying 'charging is not supported with this accessory' when not plugged in to anything. Every minute or so. Killing the battery life.
> 
> Have unjailbroken, etc, but it's still doing it. If I don't have insurance, what will O2 say if I call them about it?
> 
> Time to recommence the insurance?!



Just take it into the Apple Store, it should be in warranty?


----------



## live_jayeola (Dec 3, 2009)

I had that on Monday. Pressed and held down the power button and that seemed to have sorted it out.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2009)

Do apple refuse to fix stuff under warranty if it's been jailbroken at some point?


----------



## Kanda (Dec 3, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Do apple refuse to fix stuff under warranty if it's been jailbroken at some point?



Just unjailbreak it. Don't think they can tell.


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 3, 2009)

live_jayeola said:


> There seem to be FM radios for virgin, jazz FM and classical FM. Not found a generic "listen to any FM station" app from the iphone yet.



What stations are you intending to listen to?  I have one called "Internet Radio Box" which has 171 UK radio stations you can stream, as well as a whole load of foreign ones.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 3, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Do apple refuse to fix stuff under warranty if it's been jailbroken at some point?



They can't tell.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2009)

black or white


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 3, 2009)

fractionMan said:


> black or white



Mine, or in general? Mine's black. What looks better? Black.


----------



## ethel (Dec 3, 2009)

i have white. i like it very much.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2009)

great.  those last two posts help a lot.


----------



## themonkeyman (Dec 3, 2009)

great app for iphones just seen it - photoshop.com mobile

photoshop on the iphone.  Quite good so far and it's free


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 3, 2009)

Fuck it, I'm getting blank 16gb 3gs.

There.  I've said it.


----------



## kazza007 (Dec 3, 2009)

Thanks for the radio tips.  I read apple have embedded an fm tuner into the iphones/touches and are waiting to activate it, not sure why they had something and not made it available, but will look out for it to happen


----------



## stupid dogbot (Dec 3, 2009)

fractionMan said:


> great.  those last two posts help a lot.



The white one is "rarer".

But it makes no difference to the functionality. So I guess it really comes down to weather you prefer white or black...


----------



## teuchter (Dec 3, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> They can't tell.



Are you sure?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 3, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> Thanks for the radio tips.  I read apple have embedded an fm tuner into the iphones/touches and are waiting to activate it, not sure why they had something and not made it available, but will look out for it to happen



Why on earth would they do that?  No no FM radio in this revision.  Perhaps its in the next.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> Thanks for the radio tips.  I read apple have embedded an fm tuner into the iphones/touches and are waiting to activate it, not sure why they had something and not made it available, but will look out for it to happen


If you're waiting for Apple to gift you an FM player in your current iPhone I fear you may be in for a major disappointment.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 3, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> The white one is "rarer".
> 
> But it makes no difference to the functionality. So I guess it really comes down to weather you prefer white or black...



There's plenty of reviews on the web that say micro cracks show up as visable on the Shiite but not the black so black is likely to be more popular for that reason alone. 

I myself wanted white but changed my mind upon reading that.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Dec 3, 2009)

Probably.

Personally, I was never allowed white stuff as a kid (dirt, y'know?), and it's kind of stuck.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 3, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Are you sure?



Yes.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 3, 2009)

My screen has this fucked up bit in it now.  I think it could have been me dropping it, but the glass isn't broken or even marked or anything. Gots loads of totally dead pixels on it now.  Doesn't really affect performance. Going to see what Apple will do.  I bought their Apple care warranty.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 3, 2009)

My apps are starting to not open with irritating consistency. 
The pre-loaded apps all work fine but the free and paid for downloads keep opening then shutting immediately. 

Anyone had/have this? 

(2G handset)


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 3, 2009)

Badgers said:


> My apps are starting to not open with irritating consistency.
> The pre-loaded apps all work fine but the free and paid for downloads keep opening then shutting immediately.
> 
> Anyone had/have this?
> ...



Try the solution here.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 4, 2009)

Bungle73 said:


> Try the solution here.



Cheers Bungle73, 

I was planning to do this when I got home tonight but the thing seems to have fixed itself and all downloaded apps are working fine 

I have downloaded Account Tracker today after a recommendation and it is a great little app.


----------



## editor (Dec 8, 2009)

Whoosh! A whole _one per cent_ of the apps in the store have been pulled after the developer was found to be reviewing his own apps. The dodgy guy has 1,011 apps in the store!

http://appadvice.com/appnn/2009/12/almost-1-of-the-app-store-pulled-over-a-rating-scam/


----------



## Kanda (Dec 8, 2009)

editor said:


> Whoosh! A whole _one per cent_ of the apps in the store have been pulled after the developer was found to be reviewing his own apps. The dodgy guy has 1,011 apps in the store!
> 
> http://appadvice.com/appnn/2009/12/almost-1-of-the-app-store-pulled-over-a-rating-scam/



Good, cheating fucker


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 8, 2009)

fractionMan said:


> I can't decide if the 16gb version is worth the extra £87
> 
> Yes, I've still not upgraded my phone.



I've sort of hit a wall with the whole phone thing too - was due an upgrade in January, still haven't bothered.  I just read these threads instead!  I like the iphone but as a boater I think it might be asking for trouble. My curve looks a bit battered but has coped very well.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 8, 2009)

just read on AVforums, there's a new simplicity deal for iphone users....... Im guessing its been implemented for those who are coming to the end of their 18 month contract, but want to wait and see if there is a new phone out in july. Im guessing o2 also dont want to lose custom to the newer network providers 

anyway £19.58 per month will get you



> Rolling 30 day only contract only
> 600 mins
> 1200 text
> unlimited data
> ...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 8, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Good, cheating fucker



Loads of people do it though - well, not with _50 fake accounts_  but almost every new app I see starts with half a dozen five-star reviews in very similar style.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 8, 2009)

sim667 said:


> just read on AVforums, there's a new simplicity deal for iphone users....... Im guessing its been implemented for those who are coming to the end of their 18 month contract, but want to wait and see if there is a new phone out in july. Im guessing o2 also dont want to lose custom to the newer network providers
> 
> anyway £19.58 per month will get you



That's pretty good...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 8, 2009)

pinkmonkey said:


> I've sort of hit a wall with the whole phone thing too - was due an upgrade in January, still haven't bothered.  I just read these threads instead!  I like the iphone but as a boater I think it might be asking for trouble. My curve looks a bit battered but has coped very well.









Although tbh you're better with a phone with a resistive screen as you can use it whilst still in the bag.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 8, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's pretty good...



That will do me nicely. 

My contract ends end of Jan so £15 a month saving and exactly the sort of plan I'd want. Heavy on the txts and unlimited Internet. I rarely use my call minutes.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 8, 2009)

sim667 said:


> just read on AVforums, there's a new simplicity deal for iphone users....... Im guessing its been implemented for those who are coming to the end of their 18 month contract, but want to wait and see if there is a new phone out in july. Im guessing o2 also dont want to lose custom to the newer network providers
> 
> anyway £19.58 per month will get you



Yup, seen this on HUKD and think I will grab it as it is half current price. Only issue is that the contract is in my wife's name and I want to PAC code the number across.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 8, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Although tbh you're better with a phone with a resistive screen as you can use it whilst still in the bag.



Won't work very well when faced with the lurcher pup I'm dogsitting,  I should just cut the crap and get one of those landrover phones.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 8, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Yup, seen this on HUKD and think I will grab it as it is half current price. Only issue is that the contract is in my wife's name and I want to PAC code the number across.



just keep it in your wifes name?

I dont think you have to change number do you, its just a tariff change?


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2009)

My touch has forgotten that it has any music on it, and refuses to launch any 3rd party apps. All the fixes on the net start with "Next time you sync with your computer..."  my computer is 1000s of miles away.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 8, 2009)

dunno if it will help, but you could try a hard reset....... hold the hold and main button down at the same time til it resets...... its handy to have it plugged into the mains too

sorry if you've already tried that....


----------



## Crispy (Dec 8, 2009)

many times


----------



## live_jayeola (Dec 8, 2009)

Kanda said:


> Good, cheating fucker



that was reported on the register. heh


----------



## Sunray (Dec 8, 2009)

Crispy said:


> My touch has forgotten that it has any music on it, and refuses to launch any 3rd party apps. All the fixes on the net start with "Next time you sync with your computer..."  my computer is 1000s of miles away.



Oh dear. If you were in Asia, just need to take it to a electronics market.


----------



## hendo (Dec 8, 2009)

editor said:


> If you're waiting for Apple to gift you an FM player in your current iPhone I fear you may be in for a major disappointment.



The workaround is to install Wunderradio but O2's 3G network can sometime let it down. On the other hand there's about three zillion stations to choose from.


----------



## kazza007 (Dec 8, 2009)

i installed that app and it had radio 1's 'top 40' at 8am in the morning..i think..unless i was still half asleep 

recommend me a sub 150£ dock, with radio, pref DAB...GO!


----------



## dlx1 (Dec 9, 2009)

Just out of interest is there a apps for:

Dictionary. Can you spell check a text message as writing text message? or you and to open Dictionary check work then close it to reopen text message.

Subneting app
calculator scientific app

my old m600 have all above three years ago latest phone don't


----------



## Kanda (Dec 9, 2009)

Yes
Yes
Yes


----------



## Structaural (Dec 9, 2009)

dlx1 said:


> Just out of interest is there a apps for:
> 
> Dictionary. Can you spell check a text message as writing text message? or you and to open Dictionary check work then close it to reopen text message.
> 
> ...



There's a scientific calculator built in -
just bring up the standard one and turn your phone to landscape...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Dec 9, 2009)

http://www.apple.com/webapps/calculate/subnetcalc_johnrouda.html

I've never actually used it, though. Fancy that.


----------



## Pie 1 (Dec 9, 2009)

As far as the radio apps go, Radiobox is a brilliant. I can now get all the BBC stations out & about & the 3g network's so good here I' m even able to have 6 music or R4 in the car around Zurich without too many drop outs.
Only downside is it doesn't half gobble up the data allowence even with a 48k restirction.


----------



## Mapped (Dec 10, 2009)

You're not wrong about Radiobox and eating up your data 

Last weekend I was away from home and wifi so used Radiobox for digital radio over 3g.  I've just looked at my 3g usage and I've used up 601mb. I got my Iphone last Wednesday so I've used 80% of Orange's monthly quota in one week 

I'm going to have to keep an eye on that when I'm next away


----------



## Badgers (Dec 10, 2009)

Downloaded a couple of new apps today. 

Let it snow app which puts snow in your photos made me smile


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 10, 2009)

N1 Buoy said:


> You're not wrong about Radiobox and eating up your data
> 
> Last weekend I was away from home and wifi so used Radiobox for digital radio over 3g.  I've just looked at my 3g usage and I've used up 601mb. I got my Iphone last Wednesday so I've used 80% of Orange's monthly quota in one week
> 
> I'm going to have to keep an eye on that when I'm next away



And this is why Orange suck.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2009)

hendo said:


> The workaround is to install Wunderradio but O2's 3G network can sometime let it down. On the other hand there's about three zillion stations to choose from.


Most phones come with wireless radio apps, but let's be honest - it's far better to have a built in FM radio.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Dec 10, 2009)

editor said:


> Now available at Tesco!




Just had an email from Tesco
iPhone available from 14th December
prices available online


----------



## Badgers (Dec 10, 2009)

Throbbing Angel said:


> Just had an email from Tesco
> iPhone available from 14th December
> prices available online



Tariffs are a bit odd to me.... 



> £60pcm
> 24 month contract with free *8GB* 3GS iPhone for unlimited texts/calls/web/wifi
> 
> OR
> ...



Which option are YOU going for then?


----------



## teuchter (Dec 10, 2009)

£60 for about 200 minutes and 200 texts a month?

Not cheap is it.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2009)

I'd never pay £60/month for a phone. That's way too much.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 10, 2009)

teuchter said:


> £60 for about 200 minutes and 200 texts a month?
> 
> Not cheap is it.



Unlimited


----------



## teuchter (Dec 10, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Unlimited



Oh yeah. I was looking at the wrong column.

Still not too cheap though. Most of the competition is at around £35-40 a month.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 10, 2009)

editor said:


> I'd never pay £60/month for a phone. That's way too much.



It is high isn't it? 

Tesco free 16GB phone and unlimited everything is pretty good. 
Total cost over 24 months is £1,440!!!!

With O2 the free 16GB phone is £44.05 a month for 1200 mins and 500 texts
Total cost over 24 months is £1,057.20


----------



## teuchter (Dec 10, 2009)

Still plenty of wealthy mugs out there who'll go for it, though.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 10, 2009)

Meanwhile back in the United States...

AT&T plans to charge iphone customers deemed to be heavy data users extra, even though supposedly they're on "unlimited data packages"

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/tec...martphone-customers-for-heavy-data-usage.html

What's the reckoning this will start happening on O2 before long. I note Orange don't have an Unlimited package available. What is 'Fair use' anyway?


----------



## sim667 (Dec 10, 2009)

thats the shittest tariff for an iphone, what are tesco thinking?

You be better of getting a jailbroken second hand 3g/3gs and going for o2 simplicity tariff.


----------



## kazza007 (Dec 10, 2009)

I d/l  radiobox, cheers.
ps how do I check my data usage for o2
pps whats the unwritten max data allowance with o2
ppps reckon they will end up capping it at some point and will this affect existing contracts


----------



## Gromit (Dec 10, 2009)

sim667 said:


> thats the shittest tariff for an iphone, what are tesco thinking?
> 
> You be better of getting a jailbroken second hand 3g/3gs and going for o2 simplicity tariff.


 
Actually they have picked the most sensible business plan for them.

To try and undercut other providers when they don't have their own network (and so won't recoup the same level of money back that O2 do for instance) would be madness. They would have to sell in huge bulk to make it worth their while. Something they can't do with the level of retail competition out there and the current finacial climate.

So what other Unique Selling Point can they go for? 

12 month contracts. Which allows people to upgrade every year. Something they'll hope people will be willing to pay that little bit extra for. 

They've picked the price point they need to be able to deliver that and still maintain a reasonble markup. Because the smaller the contract the less revenue you have guaranteed, which affects running costs and risk projections etc. Especially when the revenue stream is already reduced compared to competitors because you are using a third party network.

They aren't going to make huge profits out of their model but they will make money with the least risk.


----------



## Mapped (Dec 10, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> I d/l  radiobox, cheers.
> ps how do I check my data usage for o2
> pps whats the unwritten max data allowance with o2
> ppps reckon they will end up capping it at some point and will this affect existing contracts



Radiobox is a very good app, it's worth the 50p or whatever it costs.

To check your data usage go to settings > General > Usage and you'll be able to see your 'Celluar Network Data' useage. It will show you your mobile network data transfer for the whole life of the phone though until you reset it.

Does anyone know of a good download meter app?

I can't help with the other o2 questions.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2009)

kazza007 said:


> ps how do I check my data usage for o2



Settings>General>Usage


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 10, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> And this is why Orange suck.


Orange's data plan sucks for PAYG iPhone; they don't have one! 


kazza007 said:


> pps whats the unwritten max data allowance with o2


Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's 500MB per month.


----------



## spacemonkey (Dec 10, 2009)

sim667 said:


> thats the shittest tariff for an iphone, what are tesco thinking?
> 
> You be better of getting a jailbroken second hand 3g/3gs and going for o2 simplicity tariff.



That's what I did, thanks to an urbanite!

o2 simplicity ftw.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 10, 2009)

Bungle73 said:


> Orange's data plan sucks for PAYG iPhone; they don't have one!
> 
> Someone correct me if I'm wrong but I think it's 500MB per month.



It's far higher than 500mb. Several GB.


----------



## paolo (Dec 10, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> It's far higher than 500mb. Several GB.



I've done 2.5Gb in a month. No problems.


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 10, 2009)

You're right.  It seems that's just the limit for standard Text & Web.  As far as the iPhone goes it seems there is no set limit.  They just start asking questions if they feel you're using "excessive" data.

http://forum.o2.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=30425&sid=7a6b82de1b3c1a2244d7df68c78b16bb


----------



## kazza007 (Dec 11, 2009)

ok thanks


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 12, 2009)

Fake Steve Jobs on AT&T bandwidth caps.


> So we set up a call with Randall this morning to discuss some of the profoundly stupid things his guy Ralph de la Vega said recently about creating incentives that would encourage people to stop using AT&T’s data network so much. Point of the talk was, when you’re lucky enough to create a smash hit product — when the stars align, and the hardware is great and the ecosystem is great and the apps are great and the whole experience is great, and everything you do just makes everything else better, and you’re totally on a roll and can do no wrong — when that happens, you do not go out and try to fuck it all up by discouraging people who love your product. What you do, instead, is you fix your fucking shitty ass network you fucking shit-eating-grin-wearing hillbilly ass clown!


http://www.fakesteve.net/2009/12/a-not-so-brief-chat-with-randall-stephenson-of-att.html
It's a long one, and classic FSJ.


----------



## paolo (Dec 12, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Fake Steve Jobs on AT&T bandwidth caps.
> 
> http://www.fakesteve.net/2009/12/a-not-so-brief-chat-with-randall-stephenson-of-att.html
> It's a long one, and classic FSJ.



AT&T in big cities is now really fucked apparently - everyone suspects it's iPhone traffic. O2 in London is fairly shit too.

But I don't pity them. As an industry, I think they are one of the most despicable. Limited-unlimited, price masking, confusopoly, lock-ins... it's a shyster business where you reluctantly buy in to the least bad. 

The essence of the FSJ thing is right. The new breed of phones is a shot in the arm to the telcos. They need to get on board and upgrade. If they don't, then punters will rightfully flock to less overloaded competitors. It's Verizon's big selling point in the US.


----------



## RaverDrew (Dec 12, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> I've done 2.5Gb in a month. No problems.



I've gone over 20GB in a month on a payg iphone sim in a unlocked dongle with no problems.

I heard that o2 were investing heavily in upgrading their network to support more data as well.


----------



## paolo (Dec 12, 2009)

RaverDrew said:


> I've gone over 20GB in a month on a payg iphone sim in a unlocked dongle with no problems.
> 
> I heard that o2 were investing heavily in upgrading their network to support more data as well.



I hope they do.

That's the right response.


----------



## RaverDrew (Dec 12, 2009)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...nnounces-multi-million-pound-3G-overhaul.html



> O2 will begin its upgrade in London, with 40 new mobile data hotspots planned to be installed by Christmas and another 160 over the next 12 months. In 2010 the rest of the UK will experience similar developments, with 1,500 new hotspots added.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 12, 2009)

RaverDrew said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...nnounces-multi-million-pound-3G-overhaul.html



Be interesting to see whether that makes any difference. The reception is shit and I never get a consistent 3g signal for more than a minute.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 12, 2009)

RaverDrew said:


> I heard that o2 were investing heavily in upgrading their network to support more data as well.



We'll have all those primary school kids' brains fried in no time.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 12, 2009)

RaverDrew said:


> I've gone over 20GB in a month on a payg iphone sim in a unlocked dongle with no problems.
> 
> I heard that o2 were investing heavily in upgrading their network to support more data as well.



I've noticed improvements. Can use 3G in London Bridge now... never worked before.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2009)

I can't make or receive any calls through o2 at the moment - I get a call dropped error every time. Boy, are they shit.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 12, 2009)

editor said:


> I can't make or receive any calls through o2 at the moment - I get a call dropped error every time. Boy, are they shit.



How odd.

O2 have been, so far, great since I joined in June. Far better than Orange, three and T-Mobile prior to that.


----------



## Pie 1 (Dec 12, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Be interesting to see whether that makes any difference. The reception is shit and I never get a consistent 3g signal for more than a minute.





ChrisFilter said:


> Can use 3G in London Bridge now... never worked before.



Christ, didn't realise it was that shit in the UK. 

It's rock solid here (Swiss). 
(I can even listen to UK radio in a car @100kph via 3G with only the odd drop out).


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 12, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> Christ, didn't realise it was that shit in the UK.
> 
> It's rock solid here (Swiss).
> (I can even listen to UK radio in a car @100kph via 3G with only the odd drop out).



I noticed how good it was when in Amsterdam.

Oversubscribed and overpopulous in the UK.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 12, 2009)

editor said:


> I can't make or receive any calls through o2 at the moment - I get a call dropped error every time. Boy, are they shit.



Not had probs with calls but texts have repeatedly taken an age to get through, sometimes up to three days, Ive had voicemail notification come through half a day late. It's driving me up the bloody wall considering I use my phone for outside work business etc. O2 better sort this or they are going to lose customers.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 12, 2009)

In Budapest, I got better 3G _in an underground bar_ than I do here, sitting outside a few hundred metres from a base station.


----------



## kazza007 (Dec 14, 2009)

noticed quite a few dropouts trying to listen to bbc radio tonight on the way home (birminghamshire)


----------



## sim667 (Dec 14, 2009)

spacemonkey said:


> That's what I did, thanks to an urbanite!
> 
> o2 simplicity ftw.



Ill be changing in january too


----------



## sim667 (Dec 14, 2009)

ivideorecorder is out on iphone, it lets people with non jailbroken 3g iphones record video, it costs 59p....... shit framerate but apparently they're working on an update to help that.


----------



## twistedAM (Dec 15, 2009)

Badgers said:


> It is high isn't it?
> 
> Tesco free 16GB phone and unlimited everything is pretty good.
> Total cost over 24 months is £1,440!!!!
> ...



ha, orange is £44.04

I think I'll finally get round to getting one and it'll be Orange cos the reception is best on Brixton Hill and I've noted editor's comments about O2 cutting out.

Oh yeah and fuck off Tesco. A brand I hate.


----------



## jamessedgewick (Dec 16, 2009)

mac rumors seems to suggest that it is not a good idea to get an iphone now. http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#iPhone but does anyone have any idea how soon a new one might happen or what is likely to be upgraded? im trying to sort one for a christmas present (most likely to go for the orange £30, 18 month contract).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 16, 2009)

Vodafone are still to announce their tariffs I believe. I don't think there will be a new update to the iPhone until next June. The next big thing coming from Apple will be the iTablet by the look of it, sometime early Spring.


----------



## g force (Dec 16, 2009)

Agreed...what else can Apple really do with the iPhone right now? Integrated FM Tuner? Meh. Better camera? Meh.

Just waiting on those Vodafone tariffs/pricing now so I can upgrade my personal phone.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 16, 2009)

g force said:


> Agreed...what else can Apple really do with the iPhone right now? Integrated FM Tuner? Meh. Better camera? Meh.
> 
> Just waiting on those Vodafone tariffs/pricing now so I can upgrade my personal phone.



An OLED screen with a higher res?


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2009)

g force said:


> Agreed...what else can Apple really do with the iPhone right now? Integrated FM Tuner? Meh. Better camera? Meh.
> 
> Just waiting on those Vodafone tariffs/pricing now so I can upgrade my personal phone.


Loads. Proper keyboard. Decent camera. Flash. Video cam for calls. Higher res screen and/or OLED and a much, much better battery life.


----------



## Chairman Meow (Dec 16, 2009)

Can someone answer a quick question please?  I know someone (ok me) who would love an iphone but really can't justify the price ( vastly inflated in Ireland of course), because really I just want to play with the apps. So what do those iTouch thingys do, and should I get one? Or do the apps only work on the iPhone?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 16, 2009)

editor said:


> Loads. Proper keyboard. Decent camera. Flash. Video cam for calls. Higher res screen and/or OLED and a much, much better battery life.



Regardless of our personal preference, I don't think Apple will see adding a "proper" keyboard as an upgrade.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 16, 2009)

Chairman Meow said:


> Can someone answer a quick question please?  I know someone (ok me) who would love an iphone but really can't justify the price ( vastly inflated in Ireland of course), because really I just want to play with the apps. So what do those iTouch thingys do, and should I get one? Or do the apps only work on the iPhone?



The apps work on the touch as well.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 16, 2009)

editor said:


> Loads. Proper keyboard. Decent camera. Flash. Video cam for calls. Higher res screen and/or OLED and a much, much better battery life.



An iPhone with a hardware keyboard...not sure that'd work. It's fine as it is, it's a big screen/great interface phone, that's one of it's big selling points.


----------



## Pie 1 (Dec 16, 2009)

editor said:


> Proper keyboard



Get. Over. It. 
It's _never_ going to happen.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 16, 2009)

editor said:


> Loads. Proper keyboard. Decent camera. Flash. Video cam for calls. Higher res screen and/or OLED and a much, much better battery life.



They aren't going to change the screen resolution because that may well invalidate 100,000 applications that rely on the current screen size.  I suppose they could double it in both directions so that old stuff still worked exactly as before but new apps had access to the extra space.  Not sure 640x960 3" screens exist?

An OLED display would be good as its much lower power and a better camera.  Much better camera would be nice, but the flash kills the battery.

Video calling is dead, nobody wants it. 

Battery life unfortunately hasn't developed like the rest of the tech that it powers. Perhaps a LiPoly battery that is specially shaped for the phone like the ones in the MacBook Air.  Doesn't need the metal case so lighter and higher power, but wouldn't be removable.

Expect an even faster CPU than before with even better 3D graphics.


----------



## jamessedgewick (Dec 16, 2009)

are vodafone likely to announce before christmas?


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 16, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> The apps work on the touch as well.



That is except the ones that require the phone gubbins or GPS.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2009)

Chairman Meow said:


> Can someone answer a quick question please?  I know someone (ok me) who would love an iphone but really can't justify the price ( vastly inflated in Ireland of course), because really I just want to play with the apps. So what do those iTouch thingys do, and should I get one? Or do the apps only work on the iPhone?



The iphone isn't the only phone on which you can "play with apps", you know.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Expect an even faster CPU than before with even better 3D graphics.


But without a massively improved battery life, all those fancy 3D graphics won't be onscreen for long.


----------



## g force (Dec 16, 2009)

But it is the only one to do it well. Nokia's Ovi store is a joke, Palm's is okay but still very young.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2009)

g force said:


> But it is the only one to do it well. Nokia's Ovi store is a joke, Palm's is okay but still very young.



ovi store isn't the only place you can get symbian apps. Pretty much any iphone app that is actually useful is available on other platforms. If you want games though, then the iphone seems to be the best bet, still.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 16, 2009)

teuchter said:


> ovi store isn't the only place you can get symbian apps. Pretty much any iphone app that is actually useful is available on other platforms. If you want games though, then the iphone seems to be the best bet, still.



If you want any apps the iPhone is the best bet. Come on teuchter - even with your anti-iPhone stance you can't really argue with the range and accessibility of its apps


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2009)

The iPhone is definitely the best for games, but most platforms offer enough good quality apps for  just about everyone's needs.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> If you want any apps the iPhone is the best bet. Come on teuchter - even with your anti-iPhone stance you can't really argue with the range and accessibility of its apps



Range: what matters is the top 5% of the offerings, not how many thousands there are in total.

Accessibility: yes, the iphone system is good for people that don't want to, for example, use google to find an app. The downside of course is that apple have total control over the selection available.



Tell me which iPhone apps you use regularly.


----------



## ethel (Dec 16, 2009)

iphone apps i use:

peggle
trainline
ocado
remote
scicallite
echofon (twitter)
facebook
flixster (cinema listings)
darkslide (for flickr)
flightcontrol
last.fm
spotify
scramble
shazam
solitaire
urbanspoon
tube status
idaft
skynews
IM+
ebay
fling


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 16, 2009)

To be fair, when I was using a Symbian phone I definitely had web-syncing outliner/mindmapping apps and notebooks, multi-app abbreviation expanders, password safes which synced with my desktop browsers, local search augmented reality apps using camera / GPS / compass, physics simulators, layered paint programs, a personal database syncing with the desktop, a National Gallery catalogue, barcode scanners, ambient music generators, a 303/808/909 emulator...

...oh yes, that was Symbian Dream Edition, sorry.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2009)

FridgeMagnet said:


> ambient music generators


I can't tell you how much I need to have one of those on my phone.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> iphone apps i use:
> 
> peggle peggle for symbian
> trainline - I simply use bookmark to national rail mobile site on opera mini
> ...


.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Dec 16, 2009)

editor said:


> I can't tell you how much I need to have one of those on my phone.



And I can't tell you how little I care about flash.

*shrug*

Still, at least teuchter really CARES about this.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> And I can't tell you how little I care about flash.
> 
> *shrug*


You mean a camera flash?  

They're actually well useful. That's why just about every camera comes with one.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2009)

teuchter said:


> .


Do you mind if I nick that lot for a wirefresh article?


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2009)

editor said:


> Do you mind if I nick that lot for a wirefresh article?



Feel free.

Probably best to double-check all the links though because I did it very hurriedly. You might also be able to find some apps for the ones I didn't, if you search a bit harder.


----------



## paolo (Dec 16, 2009)

teuchter said:


> .



I wonder how many of those 'equivelents' are on par with the corresponding iPhone apps. Or even are actually something completely different.

For example I've just had a quick look at that Remote... and it's nothing like the iPhone Remote _at all_. It's an infrared remote control!


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2009)

Oh OK. I misunderstood what that one does.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 16, 2009)

Teuchter, I think you've missed the point. But props for the effort. 

I have owned and loved an N95 8GB and a Touch HD prior to owning an iPhone and it's not whether an app exists or not, it's ease of aquisition and usability of said app. Both of which are markedly superior on the iPhone.


----------



## paolo (Dec 16, 2009)

teuchter said:


> What does the iPhone remote do?



Browse your PC music library & album artwork, cue up tunes, make playlists etc. All controlled via WiFi.

http://www.apple.com/itunes/remote/


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> Browse your PC music library & album artwork, cue up tunes, make playlists etc. All controlled via WiFi.
> 
> http://www.apple.com/itunes/remote/



Ok - looks like this does the same thing on loads of other platforms:

http://www.salling.com/


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Teuchter, I think you've missed the point. But props for the effort.
> 
> I have owned and loved an N95 8GB and a Touch HD prior to owning an iPhone and it's not whether an app exists or not, it's ease of *aquisition and usability* of said app. Both of which are markedly superior on the iPhone.



The former - agreed (although with restrictions of Apple approval process as caveat), latter - I don't thin that's necessarily true. Maybe if you compare apps from before the iphone with current iphone apps - but that's not comparing apples with apples.


----------



## paolo (Dec 16, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Ok - looks like this does the same thing on loads of other platforms:
> 
> http://www.salling.com/



And costs $23, rather than free. And another $22 for syncing, rather than free.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 16, 2009)

stupid dogbot said:


> And I can't tell you how little I care about flash.
> 
> *shrug*
> 
> Still, at least teuchter really CARES about this.



Me either, unless you're like a foot away they're useless...


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Me either, unless you're like a foot away they're useless...


Pretty handy then if you're taking photos in a nightclub. Or a pub. Or a restaurant. Or inside a church at a wedding, etc etc.

The camera desperately needs improving in the iPhone.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 16, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Ok - looks like this does the same thing on loads of other platforms:
> 
> http://www.salling.com/



Thats not what Remote does, Remote allows you to browse iTunes like you were at your computer, play tracks change the volume etc over Wifi.  There is nothing else quite like it because its an iTunes thing.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Thats not what Remote does, Remote allows you to browse iTunes like you were at your computer, play tracks change the volume etc over Wifi.  There is nothing else quite like it because its an iTunes thing.


I don't use iTunes, but is it the same as these: 
http://www.hobbyistsoftware.com/pre/remote-more
http://www.precentral.net/homebrew-apps/iTunesRemote


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 16, 2009)

editor said:


> Pretty handy then if you're taking photos in a nightclub. Or a pub. Or a restaurant. Or inside a church at a wedding, etc etc.
> 
> The camera desperately needs improving in the iPhone.



I tried that and never found a flash good enough to warrant continued use..


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I tried that and never found a flash good enough to warrant continued use..


The flash on the Pre has certainly helped me grab pics I would have otherwise missed. I think it's pretty hard to argue against having a flash really.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 16, 2009)

I have to say after checking your phone out last night, I think I've made my mind up.   Palm Pre it is.

But it's on 02 - bugger.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 16, 2009)

The iPhone camera does need a flash tbh. I am more concerned about that than having Flash (I've grown to hate Flash and in fact Adobe generally, the cunts). I expect it will depend on how much it changes the shape of the phone and whether they can fit one in.

Granted that phone pics with a flash are generally rubbish, but a pic where you can sort of see what's going on is always less rubbish than one that's just black with some brown blobs in it.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2009)

paolo999 said:


> And costs $23, rather than free. And another $22 for syncing, rather than free.



Well... I think that can be more than offset by the high cost of buying an iPhone in the first place (several hundred quid over a year if I remember correctly from when I worked it out).

Also - I'm sure I could find things that are free on other phones but not on the iphone. For example - a maps application that is fully usable and searchable offline.

And in any case one of those apps the editor linked to is free.



Sunray said:


> Thats not what Remote does, Remote allows you to browse iTunes like you were at your computer, play tracks change the volume etc over Wifi.  There is nothing else quite like it because its an iTunes thing.



Well this is what Salling Clicker does:



> Out of the box, Salling Clicker supports award-winning products such as iTunes from Apple and EyeTV from Elgato. Where other remote controls stop at play/pause-style interaction with your media player, Salling Clicker goes much further allowing you to browse and search your music library, all from your device's display. Want to throw a party, play music, and mingle with your guests at the same time? Salling Clicker lets you do it in style!



Which sounds like the same thing to me. Does Remote work with other media players too? Unlikely.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 16, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Also - I'm sure I could find things that are free on other phones but not on the iphone. For example - a maps application that is fully usable and searchable offline.



Memory Map ftw, all the UK at OS level mapping (or at least as much as you fir on a memory card). Technically its not free, but its the main thing stopping me jumping ship from widows mobile. I wish they'd hurry up and port it to some other platforms.


----------



## mincepie (Dec 16, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Memory Map ftw, all the UK at OS level mapping (or at least as much as you fir on a memory card). Technically its not free, but its the main thing stopping me jumping ship from widows mobile. I wish they'd hurry up and port it to some other platforms.



Same here -  plus the mobile software could do with a bit of a tidy up - too many fiddly menus.


Still the best thing in its class as a far as i can tell...


I do admire the brilliant UI of the iPhone, Android, Pre etc- my HTC diamond with the HTC skin isn't really all that great- but Memory Maps keeps me with it.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 17, 2009)

The software looks like its stuck in the nineties! Needs a massive overhaul, but sadly since they're the only player, I guess they don't need to move fast. Main thing they need to do is make it finger friendly for when its in a waterproof case. 

I'm running the new sense UI over 6.5 on my Touch HD, still some things to tweak, but overall big improvement over touchflow. I think the contacts app is now better then the iphones!


----------



## teuchter (Dec 17, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Memory Map ftw, all the UK at OS level mapping (or at least as much as you fir on a memory card). Technically its not free, but its the main thing stopping me jumping ship from widows mobile. I wish they'd hurry up and port it to some other platforms.



you've mentioned this before, and sorry if I've asked this question before, but is it searchable? As in, if I type in a streetname can it find it? Also presumably it only covers the UK?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 17, 2009)

teuchter said:


> you've mentioned this before, and sorry if I've asked this question before, but is it searchable? As in, if I type in a streetname can it find it? Also presumably it only covers the UK?



Not really, you're better of with tom tom or even google maps for something like that. The search is more designed for finding the name of a hill/lake, but I never use it on the mobile version. You can however have tom tom and memory map running at the same time, with OS 1:250k map on screen, with the voice directions from tomtom.

There are some foreign maps available, but I haven't really investigated.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 17, 2009)

Global_Stoner said:


> Not really, you're better of with tom tom or even google maps for something like that. The search is more designed for finding the name of a hill/lake, but I never use it on the mobile version. You can however have tom tom and memory map running at the same time, with OS 1:250k map on screen, with the voice directions from tomtom.
> 
> There are some foreign maps available, but I haven't really investigated.



Google maps doesn't work offline though. I like to be able to search for addresses when I'm on the tube, or abroad, or anywhere with patchy reception. Memorymaps sounds good but if I'm out walking I find I much prefer a big paper map. Apart from anything else you can be sure its batteries won't run out. Anyway I think we've already had this discussion on some other thread.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 17, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Google maps doesn't work offline though. I like to be able to search for addresses when I'm on the tube, or abroad, or anywhere with patchy reception. Memorymaps sounds good but if I'm out walking I find I much prefer a big paper map. Apart from anything else you can be sure its batteries won't run out. Anyway I think we've already had this discussion on some other thread.



Indeed we have. 

I'm waiting for the peice of software the combines the functionality of memory map, tom tom and google earth, with locally stored maps, but can go online for extra features. I may be waiting a while. 

ETA: I prefer the paper map, but was bloody glad I had it with me the other day, coming of the hill in the dark and I don't think I've seen fog as thick in the dales before!


----------



## Sunray (Dec 17, 2009)

teuchter said:


> Well... I think that can be more than offset by the high cost of buying an iPhone in the first place (several hundred quid over a year if I remember correctly from when I worked it out).
> 
> Also - I'm sure I could find things that are free on other phones but not on the iphone. For example - a maps application that is fully usable and searchable offline.
> 
> ...



Your point? Other phones have similar application?   No shit.

You, like many that don't own an iPhone, have utterly missed the point.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 17, 2009)

editor said:


> But without a massively improved battery life, all those fancy 3D graphics won't be onscreen for long.



You will find that the die shrinkage ensures that even though it runs faster it has a lower voltage and therefore it can deliver better graphics for less power than current devices.  

Expect the new iPhone to be dual core but have a longer battery life.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 17, 2009)

Just downloaded the NHS AutismTest application (free) which is a curious thing....?


----------



## teuchter (Dec 17, 2009)

Sunray said:


> Your point? Other phones have similar application?   No shit.
> 
> You, like many that don't own an iPhone, have utterly missed the point.



Simply a response to those people saying that the iPhone has a significantly wider range of useful apps. I've shown that's not true.

I completely "get" the iPhone and why people like it. Part (yes, only part) of its success is the marketing of it, and this has been done so well that a lot of people think that it is completely unique in what it can offer. It bothers me slightly to see people falling for this because it is so enormously expensive, so I like to point out that there are other options. People can make their minds up for themselves.

Even you seem to have been taken in - you thought that that "Remote" app was unique - "There is nothing else quite like it because its an iTunes thing." The reality is that there is another application for other platforms that as far as I can tell, does everything it can do.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2009)

I have never, ever, seen any phone get as much advertising as the iPhone. It's had full page adverts in just about every newspaper for months on end, plus TV adverts, plus a huge glossy magazine budget. The Guardian on Saturday had *two* full page adverts for the thing, and the High Street phone shops are plastered with banners and posters for iPhones. It's relentless!

With that kind of promotion (and a decent product, natch) it's a hell of a challenge for competitors to get a look in, regardless of how good their phone is.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 17, 2009)

editor said:


> With that kind of promotion (and a decent product, natch) it's a hell of a challenge for competitors to get a look in, regardless of how good their phone is.



Well fingers crossed they up their products to compete. I'm a long way from married to the brand, it just offers the best handset for me at the moment. As you know, I'm fickle, as soon as a better offer comes a long I'll be there.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Well fingers crossed they up their products to compete. I'm a long way from married to the brand, it just offers the best handset for me at the moment. As you know, I'm fickle, as soon as a better offer comes a long I'll be there.


Under the slew of iPhone advertising, it is becoming increasingly hard for others to get a look in, regardless of their merit. And that's rather a shame I think.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Under the slew of iPhone advertising, it is becoming increasingly hard for others to get a look in, regardless of their merit. And that's rather a shame I think.



I'm not sure that's necessarily true.  If anything I'd have thought the rise of the iPhone would simply alert people to the existance of smart phones as a concept, who otherwise would still be using bog standard Nokias or Sony Ericssons.

As soon as a better phone comes along, I will be interested.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 17, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> If anything I'd have thought the rise of the iPhone would simply alert people to the existance of smart phones as a concept, who otherwise would still be using bog standard Nokias or Sony Ericssons.



I don't think this has been the effect though, for the majority of the mass market. In their heads there are two categories: iPhone and Normal Phone.

It has had the positive effect of getting other manufacturers of getting their act together a bit though - some of them are still doing this of course.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 17, 2009)

teuchter said:


> I don't think this has been the effect though, for the majority of the mass market. In their heads there are two categories: iPhone and Normal Phone.
> 
> It has had the positive effect of getting other manufacturers of getting their act together a bit though - some of them are still doing this of course.



I dunno about that... I've seen a few threads on here saying "iPhone or HTC Hero" and on FB people pondering similar things. People who aren't normally gadgety types.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'm not sure that's necessarily true.  If anything I'd have thought the rise of the iPhone would simply alert people to the existance of smart phones as a concept, who otherwise would still be using bog standard Nokias or Sony Ericssons.


Punter reads paper - sees full page iPhone adverts (and most likely, no others). Punter turns on TV - sees iPhone ads. Punter walks down High Street - sees iPhone adverts. Punters goes into mobile shop looking for new phone - is assaulted by iPhone adverts.

It does make a huge difference - that's why they're all paying so much for the blanket coverage - and I don't think it particularly helps any other manufacturers.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 17, 2009)

What's the reckoning that Vodafone will have a data cap on iPhone traffic, like Orange? At the moment O2 appear to be the most generous with an undisclosed limit which still makes them the most attractive provider IMO - especially if using Spotify and data hungry stuff like streaming radio etc.

But Vodafone have always been my favourite provider for coverage so I'd much rather take a contract out with them.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 17, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> I dunno about that... I've seen a few threads on here saying "iPhone or HTC Hero" and on FB people pondering similar things. People who aren't normally gadgety types.



Hmm... I'm not sure they are representative. I've watched 3 of my workmates get iPhones, without considering any alternatives. I could tell they had already made their mind up at the point where I suggested they look at the competition.

Also, 90% of non-gadgety people will say, when they see my phone "ooh is it an iPhone?" just because it's the same kind of form factor.


----------



## g force (Dec 17, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> What's the reckoning that Vodafone will have a data cap on iPhone traffic, like Orange? At the moment O2 appear to be the most generous with an undisclosed limit which still makes them the most attractive provider IMO - especially if using Spotify and data hungry stuff like streaming radio etc.
> 
> But Vodafone have always been my favourite provider for coverage so I'd much rather take a contract out with them.



They don't on BlackBerrys they offer - both corporate and personal tarrifs - so I can see them going head-to-head with 02 on that.


----------



## Pie 1 (Dec 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Under the slew of iPhone advertising, it is becoming increasingly hard for others to get a look in, regardless of their merit. And that's rather a shame I think.



So now it's Apple's fault for being cash rich & advertising a winner heavily- like the others wouldn't jump at a chance to chew off their left bollock in front of a live audiance to do the same if thay could 

Get a fucking grip man! 

editior: You're repeating yourself _again_ on the iPhone thread.
You really should keep a check on yourself - god knows if people began to think you were obsessed or something.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2009)

Pie 1 said:


> So now it's Apple's fault for being cash rich & advertising a winner heavily- like the others wouldn't jump at a chance to chew off their left bollock in front of a live audiance to do the same if thay could


What an odd man you are. All that rage! I think you need to have a little sit down before you burst a blood vessel. 

The rest of us seem to be having an interesting chat about the merits of advertising, and the influence of the iPhone's mass coverage on other phones (which, when you calm down, you will note I have criticised not one jot).


----------



## Pie 1 (Dec 17, 2009)

editor said:


> All that rage!



Looks like you've mis-understood the basic image based quality of this smiley once again!


----------



## Kanda (Dec 17, 2009)

I reckon it's 50/50 with Blackberry at the moment. Most TV spots I see are Blackberry.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 17, 2009)

g force said:


> They don't on BlackBerrys they offer - both corporate and personal tarrifs - so I can see them going head-to-head with 02 on that.



They've always been pretty fair on stuff like that - it's why I've stuck with them for so long.  If you go over your limit, you might get a slapped wrist, unlike some other providers I can think of.


----------



## Pie 1 (Dec 17, 2009)

editor said:


> What an odd man you are.



I think you're actually a deadpan comic genius, y'know.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 17, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> I dunno about that... I've seen a few threads on here saying "iPhone or HTC Hero" and on FB people pondering similar things. People who aren't normally gadgety types.



Yes I've seen alot of takeup of smart phones too, but then there's my mate who is currently managing phones4u in Barnet - says she's struggling to sell anything but PAYG cheapo phones on deals, right now.  Lets face it, smart phones aren't a cheap option are they?  We pay over £100 a month for a blackberry and two 3g dongles.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2009)

Kanda said:


> I reckon it's 50/50 with Blackberry at the moment. Most TV spots I see are Blackberry.


Wanna do a wager on that? Apple iPhone vs Blackberry full page newspaper ads?



*edit before Pie1 blows a hernia - by far the bulk of the advertising is by the networks, not Apple


----------



## Kanda (Dec 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Wanna do a wager on that? Apple iPhone vs Blackberry full page newspaper ads?



No, did you notice my mention of TV spots?


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2009)

Kanda said:


> No, did you notice my mention of TV spots?


I don't watch enough TV to know to be honest, but with more networks pushing the iPhone - and Tesco, of course - I'd be surprised if the iPhone doesn't outdo Blackberry's in that department too.

I've seen a grand total of one Palm Pre advert on TV (it wasn't very good) and one quarter page ad in a freebie paper.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 17, 2009)

I've been looking at iphone 4g concepts this morning...... some interesting designs and ideas floating around.


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 17, 2009)

editor said:


> I don't watch enough TV to know to be honest, but with more networks pushing the iPhone - and Tesco, of course - I'd be surprised if the iPhone doesn't outdo Blackberry's in that department too.
> 
> I've seen a grand total of one Palm Pre advert on TV (it wasn't very good) and one quarter page ad in a freebie paper.



I've seen plenty of adverts for the Palm Pre, usually when I'm fast forwarding through them on our Sky HD box.  Also I've seen programmes being sponsored by Blackberry (Flash Forward).


----------



## oicur0t (Dec 17, 2009)

Symbian has a lot of apps, a helluva lot, but you won't often find them straight away because no one is charging you to centrally manage and control the distribution of them [although carriers and handset manufacturers are working on this]. In fact, if you write an application you can get it published by Symbian Horizon http://horizon.symbian.org/ to distribute to the app stores. Also people often forget that Symbian isn't Nokia and apps are available from manufactures apps stores as well. In fact you can start an app store if you want. Just because it's not being advertised doesn't mean it's not there.

Many iPhone app developers are seriously unhappy because they cannot control the merchandising of their product, it's all down to apple. The only main element they can control is the price. Many don't make money. iTunes and the iPhone is a fantastic revenue generating machine for apple. Many of the applications are downloaded and not used.

Conversely there are app stores like getjar which are quietly helping developers build away and make money, but you don't get adverts everyday about them. Every so often big numbers come out of apple and everyone goes ooh, they're the biggest, they've got more.... when clearly this is not the case, it's just that the evidence to the contrary is dispersed. Symbian has several hundred million phones in the wild and continues to sell more than everyone else and no one is paid to convert these numbers into marketing material.

Currently the iPhone cannot do what the majority of smartphone users want and probably never will unless things change. The majority of smartphones are workhorses that are secure and stable with enterprise specific functionality.

I currently have an e71, an n97, I've just spent 2 weeks with a Satio and I have an old 1st gen iPhone. Which one would I choose? Because I have a mac I'd choose an iPhone, no other reason. I have a mobile me account so it makes sense. If I had a PC, considering the fantastic price I'd probably go for a Satio... contrary to the news reports about the bugs, it was great for me... responsive, usable and lots and lots of built in functionality, sync'd with gmail, could bluetooth to my mac (on my iPhone, bluetooth never worked. ever)


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 17, 2009)

g force said:


> They don't on BlackBerrys they offer - both corporate and personal tarrifs - so I can see them going head-to-head with 02 on that.



I certainly hope they wont be capping the traffic.

It'll be interesting to see what their UPS is.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2009)

sim667 said:


> I've been looking at iphone 4g concepts this morning...... some interesting designs and ideas floating around.


Bit of a pointless exercise that seeing as the "concepts" are going to be almost entirety made up by over-excited, wishful thinking fanboys. Remember all the 'leaked' tablets that came out before the last announcement? And then.. there was no tablet at all!

There's like a self perpetuating rumour industry among the tech blogs to keep pumping out this ad-revenue generating nonsense. 

Apple are famously ultra-secret with their new products, so a well rendered concept is no better a guess than what anyone else here could come up with, and should be treated accordingly.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 17, 2009)

editor said:


> Bit of a pointless exercise that seeing as the "concepts" are going to be almost entirety made up by over-excited, wishful thinking fanboys. Remember all the 'leaked' tablets that came out before the last announcement? And then.. there was no tablet at all!
> 
> There's like a self perpetuating rumour industry among the tech blogs to keep pumping out this ad-revenue generating nonsense.
> 
> Apple are famously ultra-secret with their new products, so a well rendered concept is no better a guess than what anyone else here could come up with, and should be treated accordingly.



Are you never not cynical?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 17, 2009)

skyscraper101 said:


> What's the reckoning that Vodafone will have a data cap on iPhone traffic, like Orange? At the moment O2 appear to be the most generous with an undisclosed limit which still makes them the most attractive provider IMO - especially if using Spotify and data hungry stuff like streaming radio etc.
> 
> But Vodafone have always been my favourite provider for coverage so I'd much rather take a contract out with them.



O2 may be better in terms of no data cap but their reception is so shit I wonder if it hardly matters. I'm fast approaching not being bothered by a cap in return for consistent 3G coverage. 

The iPhone is the best phone I've had, easily one of the best out there, yet it's being crippled by O2's utterly shit coverage.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 17, 2009)

oicur0t said:


> Symbian has a lot of apps, a helluva lot, but you won't often find them straight away because no one is charging you to centrally manage and control the distribution of them



This is very true ... sometimes I'm surprised how hard it is to find them even if you know exactly what I'm looking for and what it's called. Often you have to go through several layers of forum or blog posts leading to other blog posts... until eventually you find the original link. Which is sometimes then out of date. Or it's unclear whether it's the latest version.

I can't deny that the apple app store makes this bit of the process less painful.

On the other hand, in the symbian world there is usually some fanatic somewhere who has compiled a list of "useful" apps that work well on a particular phone, which is in a way better than the app store because the selection has been pre-edited for quality by someone independent rather than someone wanting to make money out of them.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 17, 2009)

Kid_Eternity said:


> O2 may be better in terms of no data cap but their reception is so shit I wonder if it hardly matters. I'm fast approaching not being bothered by a cap in return for consistent 3G coverage.
> 
> The iPhone is the best phone I've had, easily one of the best out there, yet it's being crippled by O2's utterly shit coverage.



All depends on where you are. O2 signal is flawless at home (South Norwood) and at work (Farringdon) but with Orange I only get a signal in my lounge, and even then it's patchy.

In fact, on the train I get better signal with O2 than with Orange.

Plus, their network upgrades are making a noticeable difference. Watch Orange suffer a decline as sales of the iPhone rise. Same with Vodafone.

Fingers crossed O2 are ahead of the curve on this.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 17, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> All depends on where you are. O2 signal is flawless at home (South Norwood) and at work (Farringdon) but with Orange I only get a signal in my lounge, and even then it's patchy.
> 
> In fact, on the train I get better signal with O2 than with Orange.
> 
> ...



Of course but I travel across London for work and other things all the time. My reception has never held a 3G reception for longer than a few minutes. In Tufnell Park it's so bad that text messages come through hours later, peoples voicemail's don't arrive for up to 10 hours. It's real shit, I know they're upgrading but I really don't hold much hope. Come next year if O2 haven't sorted this I'm off to another network...


----------



## g force (Dec 17, 2009)

No chance...Vodafone are so far ahead of 02 in terms of data networks. Their corporate business in the UK is huge and all that volume hasn't affected performance one bit.

Orange will only get better coverage as the UK T-Mobile business is merged.


----------



## Xanadu (Dec 17, 2009)

Vodafone's coverage is a bit shit, judging from the Ofcom's maps.


----------



## editor (Dec 17, 2009)

I never thought I'd say it, but T-Mobile were the fucking _dons_ of coverage compared to O2.


----------



## oicur0t (Dec 17, 2009)

teuchter said:


> On the other hand, in the symbian world there is usually some fanatic somewhere who has compiled a list of "useful" apps that work well on a particular phone, which is in a way better than the app store because the selection has been pre-edited for quality by someone independent rather than someone wanting to make money out of them.



There's a massive symbian community out there, it doesn't shout very loud, it doesn't care too much about trends, it just gets its head down and writes stuff. It's being fueled even more now the OS is open source. No one seems to notice that the biggest mobile OS on the planet is now open source. Imagine if that happened on the desktop.

BTW I get great recommendations via Twitter.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 17, 2009)

editor said:


> I never thought I'd say it, but T-Mobile were the fucking _dons_ of coverage compared to O2.



Agreed, I used to use my old N73 for tethering all the time with my laptop and used to get constant great 3G speeds...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Dec 17, 2009)

Xanadu said:


> Vodafone's coverage is a bit shit, judging from the Ofcom's maps.



We used our dongles (fanaar fnaar) all over the UK, when we went away this summer - I can think of only _one_ place where they didn't work at all, but 3g was thin on the ground outside of towns.

One of the reasons I stick with Vodafone is they offer good rates for business use - cheap daytime calls, also 'passport', where you can use your allowance when you are abroad, and recently the roaming charges for data have dropped enough for it to be cheaper for me than paying for hotel wifi.

We don't have a landline and we manage just fine with a couple of Vodafone dongles to run our business.  I'd be scared to go with another provider incase it wasn't as reliable.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Dec 17, 2009)

that's interesting pinkmonkey..I'm on a jailbroken iphone on tmobile..maybe vodafone would be a good place for me to go if they offer the next gen iphone in 2010..thanks


----------



## live_jayeola (Dec 19, 2009)

iPhone sucks, keyboard is lame and the battery must have been from a second hand phone dealer in a market. Spotify pisses all over iTunes.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 19, 2009)

I've been playing with a task manager app called 2Do recently, which seems very nice - I'd recommend that Mac users who don't have an existing solution take a look (its primary point is that it syncs with iCal tasks, so if you're not using iCal it's a bit pointless, but it means a free desktop client and integration with Mail).

It does illustrate a point about syncing though. The app comes with a little sync daemon that allows it to sync over a local network with standard calendar data, like a lot of apps, but in this instance it syncs with system calendar data rather than a proprietorial database.

Now, this isn't anything really weird, but it's exactly what Iambic (who make Agendus) were complaining about not being able to do, and it illustrates quite how easy it is. I remember saying a few months ago that they could take that route. It wouldn't have OTA syncing (unless they made their own OTA sync system - and I think someone may write a generic OTA sync network, since Apple appear not to be very keen at opening up .mac to other devs on the iPhone, stupid stupid stupid) and you wouldn't be able to use the built in calendar at the same time if you didn't want to get confused - but then, you wouldn't _want_ to - but Agendus could easily sync with calendar and tasks just like the Palm version does.

I think they've pretty much given up on an iPhone client, though.


----------



## newme (Dec 19, 2009)

Hmmmm had someone asking me whether its worth them getting an original iphone, 3g or 3gs. Which Id go and look for them but the internet doesnt like me today and anything without tiny page sizes isnt loading for some reason, but thats another thread lol.

Whats the actual difference in price and features between the 3 and is the price difference (which Im assuming there is) actually worth it?
On orange if it matters, at least 400 txts a month needed on a monthly deal. Never used one to know what apps would be considered essential or if any of them wont work on any of the models lol.


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 19, 2009)

newme said:


> Hmmmm had someone asking me whether its worth them getting an original iphone, 3g or 3gs. Which Id go and look for them but the internet doesnt like me today and anything without tiny page sizes isnt loading for some reason, but thats another thread lol.
> 
> Whats the actual difference in price and features between the 3 and is the price difference (which Im assuming there is) actually worth it?
> On orange if it matters, at least 400 txts a month needed on a monthly deal. Never used one to know what apps would be considered essential or if any of them wont work on any of the models lol.



I wouldn't get an original iPhone as it doesn't have 3G; you can't buy them new now anyway.

The principle differences between the 3G and 3GS are that the 3GS has a digital compass, allows video recording, has auto-focus and is slightly faster.  Also you can only get the 3G in 8GB; 3GS comes in 16GB and 32GB. Price depends on whether you are on PAYG or contract and which one


----------



## newme (Dec 19, 2009)

Bungle73 said:


> I wouldn't get an original iPhone as it doesn't have 3G; you can't buy them new now anyway.
> 
> The principle differences between the 3G and 3GS are that the 3GS has a digital compass, allows video recording, has auto-focus and is slightly faster.  Also you can only get the 3G in 8GB; 3GS comes in 16GB and 32GB. Price depends on whether you are on PAYG or contract and which one



Not having kept up with phones really, what do they want 3G for exactly? 
The original was apparently offered free with one of the orange monthly contracts which was why it was mentioned to me.

Digital compass meaning just literally that (which seems a bit useless for their purposes anyway) or GPS as thats likely to be something they would want.
Find it fairly shocking the 3G doesnt have video recording, my £60 phone does that. 

It was contract not PAYG as they were looking to get the phone bundled to save up front costs as arent they supposed to be horrendously expensive to buy for PAYG?


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 19, 2009)

newme said:


> Not having kept up with phones really, what do they want 3G for exactly?
> The original was apparently offered free with one of the orange monthly contracts which was why it was mentioned to me.
> 
> Digital compass meaning just literally that (which seems a bit useless for their purposes anyway) or GPS as thats likely to be something they would want.
> ...


3G gives you faster internet.  Orange don't do the original iPhone, they only do the 3G and 3GS; as the others.

For PAYG on O2 you're looking at £342.54 for the 8GB, £440.40 for the 16GB 3GS and £538.30 for the 3GS.  But they all come with a year's free internet and wifi, which is worth £10 per month.

The are various different contracts.  If you want 500 texts on Orange you can get the 3G for £96.50, £34.26 for 18 months, includes 600 minutes and 500 texts, and wifi and internet (up to 750MB each per month).


----------



## newme (Dec 19, 2009)

Bungle73 said:


> 3G gives you faster internet.  Orange don't do the original iPhone, they only do the 3G and 3GS; as the others.
> 
> For PAYG you're looking at £342.54 for the 8GB, £440.40 for the 16GB 3GS and £538.30 for the 3GS.  But they all come with a year's free internet and wifi, which is worth £10 per month.
> 
> The are various different contracts.  If you want 500 texts on Orange you can get the 3G for £96.50, £34.26 for 18 months, includes 600 minutes and 500 texts, and wifi and internet (up to 750MB each per month).



Fair enough, they said there was a choice of three so I assumed it was those ones. Makes it somewhat simpler.

That contract looks to be about ideal then really, tho the lack of a video camera is fairly daft, but I assume getting the same deal on a 3GS will cost considerable more. Got something to go back to them with anyway. Not even sure whether they can upgrade to it as they are on a contract with Orange thats only been going about 6 months of a 24 month contract, tho for like a tenner or something so prolly not eligible for one. Tho no idea how that works when you want to increase the value of it 350% lol, would be in their interests really.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 21, 2009)

*Vodafone announces iPhone deals*

http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/iphone/

I'm not particularly impressed with their pricing which is relatively similar to existing deals from O2 and Orange so not much of an incentive to chose them based on price.

In short: to get a 16GB iPhone 3GS for nothing, you'd need to sign a 24-month, £45-per-month deal or an 18-month, £50-per-month deal.

Also, they've put a 1 Gig limit on data  Only slightly more generous than Orange's supposedly 'unlimited' offer, which is capped at 750MB per month but still, if you're inclined to use data hungry apps like Spotify and Web Radio - you're going to max it out in no time. You'd be better off going with O2 who don't seemingly have a limit.

Personally, I'd much rather stay with Vodafone as their network is significantly better than O2 in my experience but why cap the data? I can't even see their USP, its not in the price. And its not in the data allowance. Only reason I could see to go with them would be network coverage and performance preference.

More here


----------



## g force (Dec 21, 2009)

Oh FFS Vodafone that's shit. 24 month contract? Fuck right off.

02 does have a limit...it's shite network.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 28, 2009)

Given that you can't connect the phone to your PC without paying 15 quid a month extra, 750Mb 1Gb etc are all the same tbh.  

Your not going to be cruising through those very fast, I think all of them compress images in their proxies so your bandwidth is fairly minimal.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 28, 2009)

Any tips on cycling apps? I can't get to grips with my expensive cat eye cycle computer so was gonna get a cheap one from Decathlon when I thought - 'hmm, hold on a god-damned minute - the iPhone!'.

I have MotionX and Trails and think I'll get b.iCycle n' all. Experiment a bit. Battery life an issue, of course, but c'est la vie. I'm not about to spend £250 on a Garmin Edge.

There's a nice bike mount coming out from Dahon.. waterproof, screen still works, etc. £40 though. Could just get a £10 mount and not use it in the rain.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 28, 2009)

Everyone still using Safari as the browser? 
It works ok but could be better I think.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 28, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Everyone still using Safari as the browser?
> It works ok but could be better I think.



Yeah. Had no problems with it. Much better than Opera Mini.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 28, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Any tips on cycling apps? I can't get to grips with my expensive cat eye cycle computer so was gonna get a cheap one from Decathlon when I thought - 'hmm, hold on a god-damned minute - the iPhone!'.
> 
> I have MotionX and Trails and think I'll get b.iCycle n' all. Experiment a bit. Battery life an issue, of course, but c'est la vie. I'm not about to spend £250 on a Garmin Edge.
> 
> There's a nice bike mount coming out from Dahon.. waterproof, screen still works, etc. £40 though. Could just get a £10 mount and not use it in the rain.



So far, Cyclemeter is my favourite. Does everything I want it to. Being able to race against myself is a nice touch. 

Turn by turn navigation as part of a cycle app would be even nicer. Load up a gpx route an head off out on the bike. Do any of them do this?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 28, 2009)

Badgers said:


> Everyone still using Safari as the browser?
> It works ok but could be better I think.



Eh, whats wrong with it? Clearly it can be improved in many ways but I've never had the thought that one bit or another needs desperate improvement.  Does pretty much want I want.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 28, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Any tips on cycling apps? I can't get to grips with my expensive cat eye cycle computer so was gonna get a cheap one from Decathlon when I thought - 'hmm, hold on a god-damned minute - the iPhone!'.
> 
> I have MotionX and Trails and think I'll get b.iCycle n' all. Experiment a bit. Battery life an issue, of course, but c'est la vie. I'm not about to spend £250 on a Garmin Edge.
> 
> There's a nice bike mount coming out from Dahon.. waterproof, screen still works, etc. £40 though. Could just get a £10 mount and not use it in the rain.



I was thinking about this, but your going to have to buy a dynamo powered usb charger for it to be useful.  CoPilot Live 8 will take my fully charged iPhone to dead in about an hour.  The garmin might be expensive but not only does it last the distance but the maps are 1:50000 OS maps.

I came to the conclusion that its pushing the envelope of the iPhone a tad too far to be useful.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 28, 2009)

Sunray said:


> I was thinking about this, but your going to have to buy a dynamo powered usb charger for it to be useful.  CoPilot Live 8 will take my fully charged iPhone to dead in about an hour.  The garmin might be expensive but not only does it last the distance but the maps are 1:50000 OS maps.
> 
> I came to the conclusion that its pushing the envelope of the iPhone a tad too far to be useful.



Yeah, only really useful for short trips. That said, Dahon are also releasing a dynamo charger for the iPhone alongside their mount. ReeCharge it's called.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 28, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yeah, only really useful for short trips. That said, Dahon are also releasing a dynamo charger for the iPhone alongside their mount. ReeCharge it's called.



How much is that? Time you got all bought all these things your not far removed from just buying the Garmin.....  actually I thought this looked a lot better than the Garmin.  A bit more expensive but it looks the complete deal.

http://www.satmap.com/

UK made as well.


----------



## editor (Dec 31, 2009)

Given that the camera is a bit shit on the iPhone, this looks a bit of an essential download: 
Gorillacam camera app for the iPhone serves up 1.6 pics per second - http://www.wirefresh.com/gorillacam-camera-app-for-the-iphone-serves-up-1-6-pics-per-second/

It's free too!


----------



## Sunray (Dec 31, 2009)

editor said:


> Given that the camera is a bit shit on the iPhone, this looks a bit of an essential download:
> Gorillacam camera app for the iPhone serves up 1.6 pics per second - http://www.wirefresh.com/gorillacam-camera-app-for-the-iphone-serves-up-1-6-pics-per-second/
> 
> It's free too!



I just don't use it, the touch button interface its by miles the worst application on the phone.  I  look forward to the AF 5mp rumored to be in the next iteration of the phone. Hopefully they will include the ability to use a button on the side of the device.


----------



## spacemonkey (Dec 31, 2009)

The sim card slot for the iPhone is incredibly annoying. 

Yesterday I was stuck in the cold for 45mins trying to contact a friend because my phone wasn't recognising my sim card. I spent ages scouring the streets for something small and sharp I could use to open it.

I ended up fashioning a crude tool from a twig, like some sort of 21st century MacGyver.


----------



## Badgers (Dec 31, 2009)

editor said:


> Given that the camera is a bit shit on the iPhone, this looks a bit of an essential download:
> Gorillacam camera app for the iPhone serves up 1.6 pics per second - http://www.wirefresh.com/gorillacam-camera-app-for-the-iphone-serves-up-1-6-pics-per-second/
> 
> It's free too!



Good find Ed. 
The camera (2G) is poor and I dislike the screen tap button too. That said I have grabbed some great quick snaps with mine and will give this little app a try.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Dec 31, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> So far, Cyclemeter is my favourite. Does everything I want it to. Being able to race against myself is a nice touch.
> 
> Turn by turn navigation as part of a cycle app would be even nicer. Load up a gpx route an head off out on the bike. Do any of them do this?



Cyclemeter is my new favourite thing. Highly recommended.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 31, 2009)

For those that have the Xmas app and care Lesbian Vampire Killers is free today.


----------



## ethel (Dec 31, 2009)

apple just replaced mine. they offered! yeo!


----------



## metalguru (Dec 31, 2009)

sarahluv said:


> apple just replaced mine. they offered! yeo!



What was wrong with it? I think I remember you had a white iphone?


----------



## ethel (Jan 1, 2010)

i took it in as the headphone socket was being a bit dodgy. this happened about a month ago and thy found fluff in it so i asked the guy to remove the cover and check it again. it said it was fine, but noticed that the white cover had started to crack. this is a known fault with the white iphone. he offered to replace the phone because of this  they ignored the fact that i dropped it and slightly cracked the bottom of the screen. win!


----------



## metalguru (Jan 1, 2010)

My (black) 3G iPhone has a crack in the casing at the back running about half an inch upwards from the port at the bottom.

I'm pretty sure I haven't dropped it hard anywhere, so I guess it may be a design weakness.

Not sure if I should bother trying to get it replaced with O2. It doesn't seem to affect the phone's performance in any way, and my 18 month contract is up in June when presumably I'll get a replacement/upgrade to 3GS?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 1, 2010)

metalguru said:


> My (black) 3G iPhone has a crack in the casing at the back running about half an inch upwards from the port at the bottom.
> 
> I'm pretty sure I haven't dropped it hard anywhere, so I guess it may be a design weakness.
> 
> Not sure if I should bother trying to get it replaced with O2. It doesn't seem to affect the phone's performance in any way, and my 18 month contract is up in June when presumably I'll get a replacement/upgrade to 3GS?



See if the Apple shop'll replace it. If they do, then you have an 'as new' phone to sell once you've upgraded to the 3GS.


----------



## editor (Jan 2, 2010)

Here's a handy guide to fixing basic iPhone problems:

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone-and-communications/mobile-phones/how-to-fix-your-iphone-658337


----------



## editor (Jan 3, 2010)

The Guardian/Observer are cosying up good and proper with Apple today; a whole page about Steve Jobs and a *double page* spread about iPhone apps.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

I've got my new iPhone and so far I'm not feeling the love. I *hated* being forced into installing 98MBs worth of fucking iTunes onto my PC and having to fill in a ton of personal info (including credit card details) just to get the thing working. Except it's not: I'm getting a "o2 could not activate cellular data network" error when I try and access the web.

o2's busy iPhone user forums recommend this: 


> Go to Settings... General... Network... Cellular Data Network, and change the Cellular Data APN from idata.o2.co.uk to mobile.o2.co.uk...


...but I'm wary about fiddling about with settings so early on.

So w'gwan here? Oh, and does the bundled USB cable really not support phone charging?


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm sure someone will be along to stroke your settings but yes the bundled USB cable really should charge your iPhone..well, mine does and it's an old 2007 original model


----------



## ethel (Jan 6, 2010)

my USB cable is fine for charging...

not sure about the settings. mine are the idata. i only get that error message when i have no signal.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> I've got my new iPhone and so far I'm not feeling the love. I *hated* being forced into installing 98MBs worth of fucking iTunes onto my PC and having to fill in a ton of personal info (including credit card details) just to get the thing working. Except it's not: I'm getting a "o2 could not activate cellular data network" error when I try and access the web.
> 
> o2's busy iPhone user forums recommend this:
> ...but I'm wary about fiddling about with settings so early on.
> ...



You don't have to enter cc details. 

Give it a go. You can always undo it. 

Fingers crossed you're not in a signal blackspot.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> I've got my new iPhone and so far I'm not feeling the love.



What happened to your Pre?


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> Oh, and does the bundled USB cable really not support phone charging?



Should do. 
Either direct from the computer when connected or when conected to the mains adaptor that comes with it.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm sorely missing the Palm's Synergy and card multi tasking already. It feels like a *huge* step backwards having to open and close every ruddy thing.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm sorely missing the Palm's Synergy and card multi tasking already. It feels like a *huge* step backwards having to open and close every ruddy thing.



Even my shity windows mobile device can do that. 

Just flashed with the latest hacked Leo ROM and see they've made strides to improving the onscreen keyboard. On the little tutorial when you first boot, it claims its got intelligant if your not precise about hitting the key the right place.


----------



## paolo (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm sorely missing the Palm's Synergy and card multi tasking already. It feels like a *huge* step backwards having to open and close every ruddy thing.



Yep. It's something I hope they learn from Palm and sort out. It's not as elegant on the iPhone.

What happened to your Pre by the way?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> ...but I'm wary about fiddling about with settings so early on.
> 
> So w'gwan here? Oh, and does the bundled USB cable really not support phone charging?


I believe the PAYG and contract iPhones on O2 use different data network settings, so if you have a 2nd user contract phone and a you've got a PAYG SIM, you'll need to change those settings.

That's my understanding from bunging a PAYG SIM in my contract iPhone when checking it prior to using the SIM in a USB dongle.

Phone should def charge from USB cable, as long as the USB port is providing enough power. If it's plugged into an unpowered hub it _may_ struggle to charge.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm sorely missing the Palm's Synergy and card multi tasking already. It feels like a *huge* step backwards having to open and close every ruddy thing.



That's mainly because the open/close is pretty slow.  If it was instant it wouldn't feel such an issue.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 6, 2010)

Mine's working fine on idata.blah blah. I'm pay monthly.

Easy and not damaging to change between the two though. Just remember what it was set to.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

Sunray said:


> That's mainly because the open/close is pretty slow.  If it was instant it wouldn't feel such an issue.


No, it feels really clumsy. The Pre multi tasks like you would on your home computer, and it's a huge boost to productivity, especially when you need to check several things in multiple apps.

No doubt Apple will introduce it soon as if they invented it!

I can't knock the slickness levels of the iPhone though. It's like a big glossy ball of sheen, dazzle and animation.





Kanda said:


> Mine's working fine on idata.blah blah. I'm pay monthly.
> 
> Easy and not damaging to change between the two though. Just remember what it was set to.


Shouldn't be having to do it straight out of the box though, really, should I?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> Shouldn't be having to do it straight out of the box though, really, should I?



Nope. But I've had the same problems with Nokia's over the years, having to set the correct settings. O2 usually send you a message when activated to download settings ime...


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Nope. But I've had the same problems with Nokia's over the years, having to set the correct settings. O2 usually send you a message when activated to download settings ime...


The idata.o2.co.uk settings were on the phone when I checked. I tried resetting the network settings to no avail.

It's a disappointing start so far, to be honest.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> The idata.o2.co.uk settings were on the phone when I checked. I tried resetting the network settings to no avail.
> 
> It's a disappointing start so far, to be honest.



Can you make calls? (is it fully activated yet?)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2010)

You know the Ed getting an iPhone is starting to look like one of those 'Be careful what you wish for...'


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You know the Ed getting an iPhone is starting to look like one of those 'Be careful what you wish for...'


Look: I _*want*_ the thing to be brilliant, but I'm not going to keep quiet if it disappoints.

I may get a tad over-passionate about technology sometimes, but I'm always honest about what I find. 

The apps are absolutely awesome on the iPhone - way better than anything else around. The phone is beautifully made, and the whole package is as sweet and as slick and as smooth as you'll find anywhere, but if it can't get on 3G without faffing about, well, that's pretty shit is anyone's language.

Having come straight from a Pre, I think I'm in a good position to offer some objective comparisons too.


----------



## ethel (Jan 6, 2010)

you seem to have annoyed the 3G gods! both of mine connected to 3G straight away


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 6, 2010)

My guess is you have issues with O2 signal in your flat. Hence the lack of 3G. I hope otherwise.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> Having come straight from a Pre, I think I'm in a good position to offer some objective comparisons too.


----------



## paolo (Jan 6, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> My guess is you have issues with O2 signal in your flat. Hence the lack of 3G. I hope otherwise.



Yeah I'd guess that too. I've found the odd spot where voice is up, but no data - same error message.

FWIW I'm on idata.thingy too, pay monthly, running fine.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 6, 2010)

We should go to Ed's with our iPhones, to test his flat out.


----------



## paolo (Jan 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> We should go to Ed's with our iPhones, to test his flat out.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> My guess is you have issues with O2 signal in your flat. Hence the lack of 3G. I hope otherwise.


It's kinda weird because I'm high up and can see right across Brixton from the front and right across south London from the back. I should get great reception considering my position.

If it is reception issues, I'm not the only Brixton-based urban75 iPhone user to have suffered the same!


----------



## Kanda (Jan 6, 2010)

paolo999 said:


>



I'm actually serious. He's had no end of trouble with O2.. best way to rule it out.

Obvs not ALL of us!!


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Jan 6, 2010)

#edsflatiphoneflashmob


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm running out of phones to get annoyed at. Android, WM, Palm Pre, iPhone - oh fuck, that only leaves.... Nokia. Aaaiieee!


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 6, 2010)

editor said:


> So w'gwan here? Oh, and does the bundled USB cable really not support phone charging?



How else would you charge it, it's the only cable it comes with! 

And, as others have said, the data settings are different for PAYG and pay monthly; it says on the O2 website that if you have a PAYG phone you need to change the settings, as they are set to pay monthly by default.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> How else would you charge it, it's the only cable it comes with!
> 
> And, as others have said, the data settings are different for PAYG and pay monthly; it says on the O2 website that if you have a PAYG phone you need to change the settings, as they are set to pay monthly by default.


I've never had a PAYG phone: the SIM card came with the Palm Pre on the same unlimited monthly data deal.

The cable seems to be charging now. Ho hum.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 6, 2010)

98Mb isnt exactly a lot these days. 

Just remember to set the phone to manually manage music, then you can just drag drop from your hard disk onto the Phone in iTunes, you don't have to use iTunes other than to restore the phone if it all goes pear shaped.  

Drivers have to be fully installed and working before it will charge, this is a USB power specification thing.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I've got my new iPhone



This thread will be even more fun now.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm running out of phones to get annoyed at. Android, WM, Palm Pre, iPhone - oh fuck, that only leaves.... Nokia. Aaaiieee!



I suggest you get an N900, get annoyed with it quickly and then sell it to me for £50.


----------



## paolo (Jan 7, 2010)

teuchter said:


> This thread will be even more fun now.



It would be even more fun if you got one.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 7, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> It would be even more fun if you got one.



If someone's got one spare I'll happily test it and report back...


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Drivers have to be fully installed and working before it will charge, this is a USB power specification thing.


That USB port has successful charged at least four phones over the years with no problems - or additional drivers - needed. It seems to be working now which is great, although there's still no 3G.

I'm enjoying some of the excellent apps. The Time Out one really is rather good.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 7, 2010)

By the way, regarding the Nokia N900 / Maemo -

Remember when the iphone came out and people laughed because it couldn't do MMS? Well, they also launched the N900 without this capability (although it was implied it would come in a future firmware update). Apparently there are some Maemo geeks out there who are so impatient for it that they have written their own code to make it possible, and made this freely available. Which seems like an indication that the open source model is working quite well.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2010)

Sunray said:


> 98Mb isnt exactly a lot these days.
> 
> Just remember to set the phone to manually manage music, then you can just drag drop from your hard disk onto the Phone in iTunes, you don't have to use iTunes other than to restore the phone if it all goes pear shaped.


I haven;t a clue about this, so a few questions:

Do I still have to use iTunes to load up the tracks? Can't I just run the iPhone as an external USB drive and drag them straight into a folder?

Can iTunes only handle songs bought through their service?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 7, 2010)

teuchter said:


> By the way, regarding the Nokia N900 / Maemo -
> 
> Remember when the iphone came out and people laughed because it couldn't do MMS? Well, they also launched the N900 without this capability (although it was implied it would come in a future firmware update). Apparently there are some Maemo geeks out there who are so impatient for it that they have written their own code to make it possible, and made this freely available. Which seems like an indication that the open source model is working quite well.



I'm definitely getting interested in this one, now that my 3skypephone seems to have completely died.

Is it out over here yet ?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 7, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> I'm definitely getting interested in this one, now that my 3skypephone seems to have completely died.
> 
> Is it out over here yet ?



Yes - they are on ebay, anyway. I think Vodafone(?) is doing them on contract.

The price seems to be around £400-£450 on ebay at the moment though... I'm going to wait for a bit to see if it drops a bit before going for it myself.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jan 7, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Yes - they are on ebay, anyway. I think Vodafone(?) is doing them on contract.
> 
> The price seems to be around £400-£450 on ebay at the moment though... I'm going to wait for a bit to see if it drops a bit before going for it myself.



Yuk hate vodafone.  I'd have to save up for an unlocked one.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I haven;t a clue about this, so a few questions:
> 
> Do I still have to use iTunes to load up the tracks? Can't I just run the iPhone as an external USB drive and drag them straight into a folder?


No, unfortunately (for some reason) Apple won't let you do that; you have to use iTunes.



> Can iTunes only handle songs bought through their service?


No, you can use songs from anywhere; you just need to import them first.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 7, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> No, unfortunately (for some reason) Apple won't let you do that; you have to use iTunes.
> 
> 
> No, you can use songs bought from anywhere;* you just need to import them into iTunes first.*



While you have to do it via iTunes, you don't have to import them into iTunes.  I quite like doing that, but its not necessary.

If you load up iTunes and click the iPhone in the list at the side, you get presented with a screen with Options on it.  One of them is Manually Manage Music.  Once this is ticked, you can just drag your tunes from Explorer to the iPhone icon on iTunes and that will put them on the phone.  

You do have to make sure your id3 tags are good, because this (like all iPods) is what it uses to display.  This is easy to do, just install winamp and use the Auto-tag option by opening all the tracks you want updated in the play list editor, select them all, right click and send to -> Auto-tag.

The restore button I discover is actually non-destructive unless your manually managing your music (where it will lose the tracks). Appears to restore everything when its finished.

Recent feature is that the application tab (see the tabs at the top) allows you to move your icons about.


----------



## Xanadu (Jan 7, 2010)

I played with the iPhone browser a few days ago, and I got extremely jealous.  I still can't justify spending the extra hundreds of pounds an iPhone would've cost me, but it's made me long for the Blackberry Webkit browser.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 7, 2010)

Ed bought an Apple product?
*shakes head*
wow


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2010)

So, the lack of 3G was down to yet another o2 fuck up. They 'forgot' to change tariffs, so now I'm stuck without web access for 24 hours.

They really should change their name to 2



Structaural said:


> Ed bought an Apple product?
> *shakes head*
> wow


Full of surprises, me.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Can iTunes only handle songs bought through their service?


 
Just use the add file to library / add folder to library options.

Most songs should work but the property management system will pick up some songs that they've been told to block. Has only happened to me once with a Coldplay song i um aquired from somewhere.

If you got CDs they add to you library easily enough too. Just pop into your drive whilst iTunes is running and it will copy and add them straight forward enough.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 8, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Just use the add file to library / add folder to library options.
> 
> Most songs should work but the property management system will pick up some songs that they've been told to block. Has only happened to me once with a Coldplay song i um aquired from somewhere.
> 
> If you got CDs they add to you library easily enough too. Just pop into your drive whilst iTunes is running and it will copy and add them straight forward enough.



See above for not having to use this.  Its weird how people don't realise you don't need to copy stuff to iTunes to get it onto your iPod?


----------



## spacemonkey (Jan 8, 2010)

Ed, I had the same problem with my settings when I first got the iPhone. I was actually really impressed with the way 02 handled it. I had to put the operator on speaker phone and she talked me through the settings, whilst I was using the phone. It was quite bizarre. Never had to touch any settings since.


----------



## SmellyBridge (Jan 8, 2010)

This looks like fun







http://www.parrot.com/parrot-ar-drone/en/


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 8, 2010)

SmellyBridge said:


> This looks like fun
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OMFG - that is fucking great


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 8, 2010)

Heh yeah saw this other day, pretty cool!


----------



## Badgers (Jan 8, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> OMFG - that is fucking great



Any idea on price?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 8, 2010)

That's the first thing I've seen that makes me really want an iphone.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 8, 2010)

Perv's. You just want spy on your neighbours having sex!


----------



## Structaural (Jan 9, 2010)

That is well cool, here's a short Wired CES report on it: link


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2010)

Has anyone ever got Google calendar to sync with the iPhone and include dates over a month old?

Over an hour of fucking about and it's still 100%


----------



## grit (Jan 13, 2010)

editor said:


> Has anyone ever got Google calendar to sync with the iPhone and include dates over a month old?
> 
> Over an hour of fucking about and it's still 100%



Yup working here ok, I setup the google calendar as a "fake" exchange one to get it working.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2010)

I just worked it out, but I've still got loads of fiddling about to do - a legacy of shunting calendars over palm-android-pre-iPhone handsets.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 13, 2010)

Structaural said:


> That is well cool, here's a short Wired CES report on it: link



Anyone know when it will be out? The connection I'm on is way to slow to stream video, so appologies if its mentioned there.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2010)

Has anyone else's facebook app borked on their iPhone? Mine's stuck on one screen.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 13, 2010)

Mine keeps crashing (annoying as I was half- way through a contact sync), on startup. Not sure if mine is down to some new jailbreak extensions though... Was working fine last night. Reboot doesn't help. Have to try reinstalling...


----------



## teuchter (Jan 13, 2010)

Have you posted anti-apple comments on your facebook? It could be the cause


----------



## Structaural (Jan 13, 2010)

Reinstall sorted it...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 13, 2010)

editor said:


> Has anyone else's facebook app borked on their iPhone? Mine's stuck on one screen.



Nope, working pretty much as advertised...


----------



## Structaural (Jan 13, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> Anyone know when it will be out? The connection I'm on is way to slow to stream video, so appologies if its mentioned there.



Nah, no mention of price or availability yet.

Also this uses wifi - I wonder if it needs a router, it's going to be difficult to take to the park if that's the case.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 13, 2010)

editor said:


> Has anyone else's facebook app borked on their iPhone? Mine's stuck on one screen.



Working for me.  Reboot your phone, hold the power button and home button down till it switches off, power it on and see if that sorts it.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 13, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Nah, no mention of price or availability yet.
> 
> Also this uses wifi - I wonder if it needs a router, it's going to be difficult to take to the park if that's the case.



Why would it need a router - just for range or would their be other issues? I hadn't thought of that part...what happens when your fly out of range of the wifi? It would be an expensive toy to lose.


----------



## magneze (Jan 13, 2010)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/12/apple_iphone_4g_rumors/

iPhone 4G in April apparently...


----------



## Structaural (Jan 13, 2010)

I'm talking bollocks probably...


This is very nice for jailbroken phone users who use Background; Palm pre style app switching, I tried out multi0flw but it's not as slick (and this free):


Overboard is very good too (lets you pinch to shrink all your main screen pages into one page):


----------



## Sunray (Jan 13, 2010)

magneze said:


> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/12/apple_iphone_4g_rumors/
> 
> iPhone 4G in April apparently...



Very little of that rings true.


----------



## magneze (Jan 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Very little of that rings true.


Standard rumour mill stuff really.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 13, 2010)

magneze said:


> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/12/apple_iphone_4g_rumors/
> 
> iPhone 4G in April apparently...



Calling it the "4G" doesn't make sense. 3G refers to the network, not the generation of iphone.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 13, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Calling it the "4G" doesn't make sense. 3G refers to the network, not the generation of iphone.



4G can also refer to a network.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2010)

This entire Apple rumour industry is such fucking bollocks.


----------



## paolo (Jan 13, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Calling it the "4G" doesn't make sense. 3G refers to the network, not the generation of iphone.



The reg article clarifies all that.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 13, 2010)

Kanda said:


> 4G can also refer to a network.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4G



But not in this case, unless Apple are going to roll out a new network in conjunction with their next release.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 13, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> The reg article clarifies all that.



Sure. But everyone keeps talking about the "iPhone 4G".


----------



## Sunray (Jan 13, 2010)

Thats the way the revisions of iPods has been from the start in 2001 when they updated those, its 9 years old, why change it.

4G will not be called 4G anyway. Its LTE (or for some unlucky people in the US WiMax)


----------



## teuchter (Jan 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Thats the way the revisions of iPods has been from the start in 2001 when they updated those, its 9 years old, why change it.



I don't understand this sentence.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 13, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I'm talking bollocks probably...
> 
> 
> This is very nice for jailbroken phone users who use Background; Palm pre style app switching, I tried out multi0flw but it's not as slick (and this free):



I just installed that app. 


Sunray said:


> Thats the way the revisions of iPods has been from the start in 2001 when they updated those, its 9 years old, why change it.


Because that's not how it works with the iPhone.  The iPhone 3G wasn't the 3rd generation iPhone.  Calling the next one "4G" would only confuse people.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 13, 2010)

But thats not whats its going to be called by Apple is it. Its going to be iPhone NeXT or something funky like that.  Do it Jobsy.

iPhone NeXT


----------



## pinkychukkles (Jan 13, 2010)

Haven't got one myself but g/f wants one, some advice from MoneySavingExpert on the best deal to suit (apologies if it's been posted before):
http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/deals/cheap-iphone


----------



## Sunray (Jan 13, 2010)

All the deals are very close in price because Apple dictate the price.  So choose an operator you like and buy one from them.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 14, 2010)

I'm looking forward to the new iPhone, my 3G is looking decidedly past-it (jailbreaking is fun but there's sod-all memory available unlike the 3GS).


----------



## Structaural (Jan 14, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> I just installed that app.



It's well sweet init? I notice that it automatically backgrounds the app you're in  if you double tap to switch to another.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 14, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I'm looking forward to the new iPhone, my 3G is looking decidedly past-it (jailbreaking is fun but there's sod-all memory available unlike the 3GS).



Are you waiting for the version after the 3GS? You might be waiting a while.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 14, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I'm looking forward to the new iPhone, my 3G is looking decidedly past-it (jailbreaking is fun but there's sod-all memory available unlike the 3GS).



Depends on how long you can wait, if you can't I'd say go for the 3GS now. If you can wait up to 6 months there'll be a new iPhone...


----------



## Structaural (Jan 14, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Are you waiting for the version after the 3GS? You might be waiting a while.



I'm with my 3G until July/August anyway, contractually. The new iPhone will be out by April or so probably, ready for all those 2 year contracts ending...

It serves my needs fine, but I do look forward to a bit more oomph.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 14, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I'm with my 3G until July/August anyway, contractually. The new iPhone will be out by April or so probably, ready for all those 2 year contracts ending...
> 
> It serves my needs fine, but I do look forward to a bit more oomph.



Im thinkin along the same lines, although my contract has just ended....

my battery only lasts 2 days at a push now, and i expect it to get worse, but its ok for the next few months.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 14, 2010)

My contract is up but I can't see the point of another phone just for the sake of getting another phone. Its the reason I paid the 60 quid to Apple for their extra 1 years warranty.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 14, 2010)

Sunray said:


> My contract is up but I can't see the point of another phone just for the sake of getting another phone. Its the reason I paid the 60 quid to Apple for their extra 1 years warranty.



Switch to the 30 day SIM Only deal if you are on O2.


----------



## paolo (Jan 14, 2010)

Sunray said:


> All the deals are very close in price because Apple dictate the price.



That's oft quoted as 'fact' but it doesn't hold up. There's a price war in France, for example.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 14, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I'm with my 3G until July/August anyway, contractually. The new iPhone will be out by April or so probably, ready for all those 2 year contracts ending...
> 
> It serves my needs fine, but I do look forward to a bit more oomph.



There won't be a new iPhone out in April. Not a chance. June... maybe. November more likely.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 14, 2010)

sim667 said:


> my battery only lasts 2 days at a push now, and i expect it to get worse, but its ok for the next few months.



 my battery has never lasted more than 36 hours, even as a brand new 3GS. Do you have push or wifi turned off or something?


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> That's oft quoted as 'fact' but it doesn't hold up. There's a price war in France, for example.


Only brought about as a result of a legal challenge.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...pholds_ruling_against_iphone_exclusivity.html


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2010)

Two excellent apps for viewing the u75 boards:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=314141


----------



## CJohn (Jan 14, 2010)

So if you're a non-phone user and you want to get a 3GS do you have to take out one of O2's iphone contracts with the handset??

My 02 contract on my sony ericsson runs out in early feb. I was going to switch to one of the simplicity tariffs, though I am assuming you can't get that with an iphone?? If that makes sense.

Have been tempted by an iphone for ages, it just seems like the iphone tariffs are a rip off.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 14, 2010)

You can get it on orange, tesco and vodafone but the tarriffs aren't that different tbh so it comes down to network coverage...


.


----------



## CJohn (Jan 14, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You can get it on orange, tesco and vodafone but the tarriffs aren't that different tbh so it comes down to network coverage...



Cheers. I want to stay on 02, but don't really like the look of their iphone tariffs due to the price and wondered if there was any way around that. If you could get a simplicity sim (or something) and use it with it...?? Thus avoiding the high tariff.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> .


Oy! Get rid of that advert!

(See instructions on the app thread)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 14, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> Oy! Get rid of that advert!
> 
> (See instructions on the app thread)



It's gone.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 14, 2010)

CJohn said:


> My 02 contract on my sony ericsson runs out in early feb. I was going to switch to one of the simplicity tariffs, though I am assuming you can't get that with an iphone?? If that makes sense.



I am on a free (kind donation) 2G iPhone and my O2 contract expired. Switched to the iPhone Simplicity 30 day tariff. 600 minutes plus unlimited SMS, Web and Wi-Fi for £27.50 a month.


----------



## CJohn (Jan 14, 2010)

Badgers said:


> I am on a free (kind donation) 2G iPhone and my O2 contract expired. Switched to the iPhone Simplicity 30 day tariff. 600 minutes plus unlimited SMS, Web and Wi-Fi for £27.50 a month.



Ah right, I am assuming then that you can't get the iphone simplicity tariff if you're an o2 customer but new to the iphone - that you can only get that tariff if you already have the phone. The tariffs I was offered to take with the phone were a lot shitter than that simplicity one you are referring to. 

Thanks for the info!


----------



## sim667 (Jan 14, 2010)

Badgers said:


> I am on a free (kind donation) 2G iPhone and my O2 contract expired. Switched to the iPhone Simplicity 30 day tariff. 600 minutes plus unlimited SMS, Web and Wi-Fi for £27.50 a month.



Im paying £19.98


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2010)

I've just been sent a promotional code for an App that came with the instructions, "as with all Apple iTunes promotional codes they require a US iTunes account
to redeem them."

I've no idea what this means. Where do I get the app from? Do I have to open another iTunes account - and if so, how do I sync it with my phone? Anyone got any idea how I can sort this?


----------



## Badgers (Jan 15, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Im paying £19.98



I got a bolt on (unlimited texts) for £7.50


----------



## Crispy (Jan 15, 2010)

You need to create an account in the US itunes store. Here's step by step instructions:

http://www.ghacks.net/2009/02/09/create-a-free-us-itunes-account-from-any-country/

Then you can redeem your code and download the app. When downloaded, log back in to your regular itunes account and sync as normal.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 15, 2010)

Badgers said:


> I got a bolt on (unlimited texts) for £7.50



Feck u must txt a lot.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 15, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Feck u must txt a lot.



How much do you in an average month? I reckon I must send somewhere between 700-900...


----------



## paolo (Jan 15, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How much do you in an average month? I reckon I must send somewhere between 700-900...



You should find you'll use alot less, after you leave school


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 15, 2010)

Yay, 02 just pretty much cut the price of my tariff in half whilst not taking anything away, and doubled my text allowance. 

I'm in no rush to upgrade, so this is pretty sweet. Worth a look if you're coming to the end of your 3g 18 months!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 15, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> You should find you'll use alot less, after you leave school



I'm 34.  The number has dropped a bit thanks to push gmail and WhatsApp on the iPhone in the last month.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You need to create an account in the US itunes store. Here's step by step instructions:
> 
> http://www.ghacks.net/2009/02/09/create-a-free-us-itunes-account-from-any-country/
> 
> Then you can redeem your code and download the app. When downloaded, log back in to your regular itunes account and sync as normal.


Cheers. Bit of a palaver that.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 15, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You need to create an account in the US itunes store. Here's step by step instructions:
> 
> http://www.ghacks.net/2009/02/09/create-a-free-us-itunes-account-from-any-country/
> 
> Then you can redeem your code and download the app. When downloaded, log back in to your regular itunes account and sync as normal.



D'you know if there's a similar way to get a UK iTunes Acct, Crispy?
I'm on Swiss iTunes store & it's bloody annoying not being able to get The Guardian app for example & having all the top apps as local Swiss ones.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 15, 2010)

dunno, I justfuckinggoogledit


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 15, 2010)

Crispy said:


> dunno, I justfuckinggoogledit




OK, Fair enough


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You need to create an account in the US itunes store. Here's step by step instructions:
> 
> http://www.ghacks.net/2009/02/09/create-a-free-us-itunes-account-from-any-country/
> 
> Then you can redeem your code and download the app. When downloaded, log back in to your regular itunes account and sync as normal.


Actually, it doesn't work. It just opens up iTunes on my machine.



I'll try it on a different machine, but I'm not impressed with Apple putting me through all these fucking hoops.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 15, 2010)

what opens up itunes on your machine?

The whole process on that page has Step Zero: Launch itunes.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2010)

Crispy said:


> what opens up itunes on your machine?


Going to the US website and clicking on a free app as that article says. I've found a way to make a new account now, but I've no idea if I should use my current user name or make up another. How will I get app updates if it's registered to another user?

I've written to the developer so maybe be can help.

And I thought Apple was supposed to make things simple.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 15, 2010)

editor said:


> And I thought Apple was supposed to make things simple.



You can taste the glee


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> You can taste the glee


There's no glee here - I'm really pissed off in fact. I've been given a promo code for a £35 app, but it's proving really difficult to download it because of Apple's arsery. I wrote to the developer and even he doesn't know the best way of sorting this out.

There's a lot to like with Apple's ease of use, but they can also be a royal pain in the arse: no other platform makes me go through so many hoops just to get a review copy.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 15, 2010)

So what _exactly_happens when you try and make a new account while browsing the US itunes store in tunes on your pc?


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2010)

Crispy said:


> So what _exactly_happens when you try and make a new account while browsing the US itunes store in tunes on your pc?


Right, after much fucking about and filling in of a fake US address, I've now got the app downloading to my second iTunes account. 

Any idea how I might get this to install on my phone?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 15, 2010)

editor said:


> Right, after much fucking about and filling in of a fake US address, I've now got the app downloading to my second iTunes account.
> 
> Any idea how I might get this to install on my phone?


Have you not used the app store on the computer to install software on the iphone yet?

It's easy. Next time you plug the phone into the pc, it'll sync automatically and the app will be installed. Check the Applications tab of the iphone's page in itunes to make sure.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Have you not used the app store on the computer to install software on the iphone yet?
> 
> It's easy. Next time you plug the phone into the pc, it'll sync automatically and the app will be installed. Check the Applications tab of the iphone's page in itunes to make sure.


I've already synced the phone, but it didn't sync when I plugged in the phone just now, presumably because I'm still logged in on my other account. 

I've just closed iTunes, unplugged the phone and plugged back into the USB cable and iTunes has popped up with the app in the iPhone's application tab - but nothing seems to be happening (there's no 'syncing' icon on the phone). How do I force a sync?

This is hard work.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 15, 2010)

editor said:


> I've already synced the phone, but it didn't sync when I plugged in the phone just now, presumably because I'm still logged in on my other account.
> 
> I've just closed iTunes, unplugged the phone and plugged back into the USB cable and iTunes has popped up with the app in the iPhone's application tab - but nothing seems to be happening (there's no 'syncing' icon on the phone). How do I force a sync?
> 
> This is hard work.


jeez, it really isn't. you didn't need to unplug or restart anything. just go to the iphone in itunes and click sync now.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2010)

Right, there was a whole-screen advert for 'Apple Me' obscuring the entire iPhone screen - until I dismissed it, I couldn't see the screen you were on about.
Now I can finally see that screen it makes a bit more sense. Syncing now.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 18, 2010)

Engadget are suggesting that Mobile OSX 4 will be launched next week.

Be nice to see some nice new extra features now the baying for cut and paste has died off, however well implemented it is.


----------



## editor (Jan 18, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Be nice to see some nice new extra features now the baying for cut and paste has died off, however well implemented it is.


Multi tasking, like a proper grown up OS please.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 18, 2010)

Hmmmm multi tasking would be nice but tbh better battery would make me happier, that and flash sites working.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 18, 2010)

editor said:


> Multi tasking, like a proper grown up OS please.



Apart from the niggles you knew about. What you think so far? Usability etc day to day?


----------



## editor (Jan 18, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Apart from the niggles you knew about. What you think so far? Usability etc day to day?


*deep breath... here goes!


The apps are great, the keyboard is bearable but frustrating, the camera can be _really_ awful in low light but fine for daytime use (especially with all the exposure/editing apps), the position of the camera lens is awkward, the build quality of the phone is ace, the lack of multi tasking REALLY makes the thing a pain at times, the overall quality of the OS is superb, the onscreen notification method is rubbish and the app store experience wonderfully slick - going back to my Android G1 is like revisiting Windows 3.11!

How's that?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 18, 2010)

editor said:


> *deep breath... here goes!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Pretty much agree  But I don't mind the keyboard. Is a pain when driving but that makes me not use it, which is a good thing


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 18, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Hmmmm multi tasking would be nice but tbh better battery would make me happier, that and flash sites working.



Software can only have a minor impact on battery life.

Multitasking is available if you jailbreak. It's great


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 18, 2010)

editor said:


> *deep breath... here goes!
> 
> 
> The apps are great, the keyboard is bearable but frustrating, the camera can be _really_ awful in low light but fine for daytime use (especially with all the exposure/editing apps), the position of the camera lens is awkward, the build quality of the phone is ace, the lack of multi tasking REALLY makes the thing a pain at times, the overall quality of the OS is superb, the onscreen notification method is rubbish and the app store experience wonderfully slick - going back to my Android G1 is like revisiting Windows 3.11!
> ...



Jailbreak and get multitasking and a better keyboard.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 18, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Software can only have a minor impact on battery life.



Well I've noticed a massive difference to battery life with push notifications coming in. I've had all 3 iPhones so far, it's a remarkable difference.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 19, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Pretty much agree  But I don't mind the keyboard. Is a pain when driving but that makes me not use it, which is a good thing



Agreed

The keyboard took a week or two to get used to but I am there with it now. Occasionally I still send a 'wacky' mistype or add a letter I/O/P when hitting send but on the whole it does not bother me. 

The lack of multi tasking does piss me off at times, hope that Apple address this point in the future. The camera is not great but that is not such a big deal for me.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 19, 2010)

Not sure full multi-tasking is totally relevant on a mobile device apart from networked applications.  I think a better way of switching between tasks would be a start.  

Removal of the notification system which is clearly a place holder for a better system but they are unsure quite how to replace it in that rigid front end.  Perhaps just switch to a screen with the icons of the apps that have alerts appear and make them pulse.


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Not sure full multi-tasking is totally relevant on a mobile device apart from networked applications.  I think a better way of switching between tasks would be a start.
> 
> Removal of the notification system which is clearly a place holder for a better system but they are unsure quite how to replace it in that rigid front end.  Perhaps just switch to a screen with the icons of the apps that have alerts appear and make them pulse.


Trust me: use a Palm Pre for a few days, and you'll be craving proper multi-tasking on your handset. It makes a _huge_ difference to productivity.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 19, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Well I've noticed a massive difference to battery life with push notifications coming in. I've had all 3 iPhones so far, it's a remarkable difference.



I mean under same usage conditions.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:


> Trust me: use a Palm Pre for a few days, and you'll be craving proper multi-tasking on your handset. It makes a _huge_ difference to productivity.



But what that gave you is a really slick way of changing tasks, the iPhones is quite clunky.  The need to have each one running in the back ground isn't quite as necessary as a simple switch between them.

Playing music (which it does) and internet connected applications like IM.  I wouldn't be a doing video re-encode on my phone so actually running the application when the application is not in use is less strong than being able to switch between applications very easily like the palm does.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 19, 2010)

With a larger amount of RAM, iphone apps could have their memory state frozen while task switching. This would probably be enough for most tasks and would require no updates from the developer's point of view (all apps currently respond to a 'freeze' command when eg. bringing up the music controls)

True multi-tasking is of limited use on a phone, compared to a PC. Music playback and instant messaging seem to me to be the main needs and could be handled with special cases.

While true MT would be nice, it's not essential. Apple can bring most of its benefits with little change to existing software.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Not sure full multi-tasking is totally relevant on a mobile device apart from networked applications.  I think a better way of switching between tasks would be a start.
> 
> Removal of the notification system which is clearly a place holder for a better system but they are unsure quite how to replace it in that rigid front end.  Perhaps just switch to a screen with the icons of the apps that have alerts appear and make them pulse.



It'd be nice to be able to run music apps in the back ground while surfing the net. The notification system really needs sorting, it's not too bad for me at the moment because all the apps I use it on are on my 1st page so if I miss the pop up or get multiples the badges are easily visible. But yeah better battery life would and sorting the notifications would be useful...


----------



## Crispy (Jan 19, 2010)

The pre has a really good notifications system too.


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> But what that gave you is a really slick way of changing tasks, the iPhones is quite clunky.  The need to have each one running in the back ground isn't quite as necessary as a simple switch between them.


It's well handy for some things, like football score updates, changing phone settings, copying between mails and webpages,  IM, mapping applications and loads more. 

Having to close an app every fucking time I want to look something up in another app - and then having to restart the app again - is ridiculous. 

Even my ancient Palm Treo at least managed to freeze an app's state when it was closed. The Palm webOS even lets you get email notifications when your playing games and you can just switch cards, answer the email and then carry on exactly where you left off. It does the same for video too. *Way* better!

Maybe Apple will rip off some of this stuff for the 4.0 OS for the iPhone. I hope so.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:


> It's well handy for some things, like football score updates, changing phone settings, copying between mails and webpages,  IM, mapping applications and loads more.
> 
> Having to close an app every fucking time I want to look something up in another app - and then having to restart the app again - is ridiculous.
> 
> ...


Gotta be careful to distinguish between multi-tasking and task-switching. All your examples are of task-switching. When you're in app A, apps BCDEF don't actually need to be running and consuming CPU time. Situations that actually require apps A and B to be running at full speed concurrently are quite rare on a phone.


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Gotta be careful to distinguish between multi-tasking and task-switching. All your examples are of task-switching.


No they're not. I used to have the BBC footie webpage updating in the background, as well as Google chat windows.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jan 19, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Agreed
> The keyboard took a week or two to get used to but I am there with it now. Occasionally I still send a 'wacky' mistype or add a letter I/O/P when hitting send but on the whole it does not bother me.



Believe me; can always tell if an email has been iphoned to me, because = 

itlok like this

It's really, really short. 

Doesn't give me confidence in it.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:


> No they're not. I used to have the BBC footie webpage updating in the background, as well as Google chat windows.


Ok, but those examples could update themselves upon being switched to with only a minor delay.

My point is that an almost good enough solution can be made without fundamentally altering the environment for apps - nothing has to be made "multi-tasking aware". It's not as good as true MT like on the pre, but it would be easy to implement, given the shrinking cost and die size of RAM.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 19, 2010)

It's often useful to be able to leave a search of some kind running (or a large page with images loading) on a web browser whilst doing something else like answering a text or using the camera or whatever.


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Ok, but those examples could update themselves upon being switched to with only a minor delay.
> 
> My point is that an almost good enough solution can be made without fundamentally altering the environment for apps - nothing has to be made "multi-tasking aware". It's not as good as true MT like on the pre, but it would be easy to implement, given the shrinking cost and die size of RAM.


How about streaming web radio? I used to listen to that on my Pre when I answered emails and surfed the web, but it's a total no go on the iPhone.

And here's what I really really miss on the iPhone.





> But Apple's system for notifications uses a pop-up window that interrupts you in the middle of a task, pauses the application, and forces you to make a choice (close, view) before proceeding. Palm's notification bar is much less obtrusive.
> 
> When a Pre user receives an e-mail or text message, that alert will pop up on the lower part of the Pre's screen as a horizontal bar. But the alert won't interrupt the application, and if the user chooses simply to ignore that alert, it will soon retreat to the lower edge of the screen to be accessed later when the task at hand is completed. That alert will always be at the bottom of the Pre's screen no matter what application or view you've selected, along with some brief information such as the sender or subject line.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-1035_3-10234043-94.html


----------



## Crispy (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:


> How about streaming web radio? I used to listen to that on my Pre when I answered emails and surfed the web, but it's a total no go on the iPhone.
> 
> And here's what I really really miss on the iPhone.





Crispy said:


> The pre has a really good notifications system too.





Crispy said:


> True multi-tasking is of limited use on a phone, compared to a PC. Music playback and instant messaging seem to me to be the main needs and could be handled with special cases.



Yes


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2010)

I'd still rather have a phone with Pre-style _ propah_ multi-tasking than your 'special cases' version, thanks, and the need for mobile multi-tasking is going to grow as more and more apps rely on instant updates.

Think Foursquare and all that malarky - you wouldn't want to have to repopen the app just to see if any updates have come through: you'd want them delivered live along with whatever else you've got open.   


> It's a huge win. The Palm gets around the inherent difficulty of multitasking with a concept dubbed "cards" which work like windows on a regular computer. When browsing open apps or web pages, you swipe through the cards as if viewing photos. Tap on a card to use the app. The other apps are still active; your inbox still collects mail, web pages still update. Just as with your computer, you can stay constantly connected to Facebook, Twitter, IM and other online activities. Best of all, when you're using an app and need something from another app, you don't have to go through a tortuous process of closing, launching and reloading. When you're navigating with Google Maps you can slide over to check a contact's address, choose a podcast or answer an e-mail, and then return to Maps without losing a beat.
> 
> http://www.wired.com/reviews/product/palmpre


----------



## Crispy (Jan 19, 2010)

I know you would! I'm just saying, it wouldn't be easy to do. Here's an easy way to get 90% there, that would satisfy most users.


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I know you would! I'm just saying, it wouldn't be easy to do. Here's an easy way to get 90% there, that would satisfy most users.


If tiddly Palm can do it on a comparative five bob budget, surely Apple and all their zillion$ can pull off something similar?


----------



## grit (Jan 19, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It'd be nice to be able to run music apps in the back ground while surfing the net.



Ipod will play music in background as you use safari.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2010)

grit said:


> Ipod will play music in background as you use safari.



Yep but radio box or the Metallica app wont.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:


> If tiddly Palm can do it on a comparative five bob budget, surely Apple and all their zillion$ can pull off something similar?



From scratch, sure. Whilst maintaining faultless compatability with the 1000's of apps out here? Not so sure.


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> From scratch, sure. Whilst maintaining faultless compatability with the 1000's of apps out here? Not so sure.


Hasn't someone already made a multi-tasking Pre-style 'card system' for Jailbroken iPhones that seems to work OK?


----------



## Structaural (Jan 19, 2010)

Backgrounding through a jailbroken phone works pretty well, the OS supports it as it's Unix based. Most apps work fine in the background, not sure if they go idle or sleep when not the front-most app, but I've had not particularly CPU intensive apps on background all day. If a newer opened app needs more memory then the background apps automatically quit (this often happens with Safari in normal circumstances) so some will disappear, especially on a low memory system like my 3G. But on the whole it works very well (with a switcher like multifl0w or ProSwitcher, you get a true, easily manipulated (Pre-like) backgrounding environment, you can set whatever apps you want to always background, I even managed to have Peggle and Tapatalk open the other day), but I understand not everyone wants to jailbreak. For me who has an older iphone it's breathed new life into it. 
SMS’ QuickReply lets your answer a text immediately in any app or from the lockscreen.
My other favourite jailbreak app is CyDialer - gives you your favourites in pictorial cover-flow style on your lockscreen (after using Cyntact to fill in all the pics in your address book). Just flip through them, click on who you want to phone and slide to call. No need to unlock, click the phone app, wait, open favourites and dial.
I feel like I've got the phone I want now, be nice if Apple nicked a few of these innovations/additions for their new OS...

Here's a good article of collected 'wants' for OS 4.0
http://www.tuaw.com/2010/01/10/dear-apple-what-we-want-to-see-for-iphone-4-0-part-1/

Not that Apple takes any notice of things like that.


Anyone used SleepCycle (get it from App store not jailbreak) quite useful. Claims to monitor your movements while you sleep and wake you up at optimum time within and half-hour window. Works pretty well, the sleep cycle graph it displays seemed quite accurate to me.

Here's when I gave up weed:







Here's when I smoked again:





and here's when the phone fell on the floor


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:


> Hasn't someone already made a multi-tasking Pre-style 'card system' for Jailbroken iPhones that seems to work OK?



Yeah. Backgrounder + proswitcher. Very nice.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 19, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Anyone used SleepCycle (get it from App store not jailbreak) quite useful. Claims to monitor your movements while you sleep and wake you up at optimum time within and half-hour window. Works pretty well, the sleep cycle graph it displays seemed quite accurate to me.
> 
> Here's when I gave up weed:
> 
> ...



I was looking at this earlier, gonna give it a go..


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Backgrounding through a jailbroken phone works pretty well, the OS supports it as it's Unix based. Most apps work fine in the background, not sure if they go idle or sleep when not the front-most app, but I've had not particularly CPU intensive apps on background all day. If a newer opened app needs more memory then the background apps automatically quit (this often happens with Safari in normal circumstances) so some will disappear, especially on a low memory system like my 3G. But on the whole it works very well (with a switcher like multifl0w or ProSwitcher, you get a true, easily manipulated (Pre-like) backgrounding environment, you can set whatever apps you want to always background, I even managed to have Peggle and Tapatalk open the other day), but I understand not everyone wants to jailbreak. For me who has an older iphone it's breathed new life into it.
> SMS’ QuickReply lets your answer a text immediately in any app or from the lockscreen.
> My other favourite jailbreak app is CyDialer - gives you your favourites in pictorial cover-flow style on your lockscreen (after using Cyntact to fill in all the pics in your address book). Just flip through them, click on who you want to phone and slide to call. No need to unlock, click the phone app, wait, open favourites and dial.
> I feel like I've got the phone I want now, be nice if Apple nicked a few of these innovations/additions for their new OS...
> ...



That's crazy!


----------



## sim667 (Jan 19, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Backgrounding through a jailbroken phone works pretty well, the OS supports it as it's Unix based. Most apps work fine in the background, not sure if they go idle or sleep when not the front-most app, but I've had not particularly CPU intensive apps on background all day. If a newer opened app needs more memory then the background apps automatically quit (this often happens with Safari in normal circumstances) so some will disappear, especially on a low memory system like my 3G. But on the whole it works very well (with a switcher like multifl0w or ProSwitcher, you get a true, easily manipulated (Pre-like) backgrounding environment, you can set whatever apps you want to always background, I even managed to have Peggle and Tapatalk open the other day), but I understand not everyone wants to jailbreak. For me who has an older iphone it's breathed new life into it.
> SMS’ QuickReply lets your answer a text immediately in any app or from the lockscreen.
> My other favourite jailbreak app is CyDialer - gives you your favourites in pictorial cover-flow style on your lockscreen (after using Cyntact to fill in all the pics in your address book). Just flip through them, click on who you want to phone and slide to call. No need to unlock, click the phone app, wait, open favourites and dial.
> I feel like I've got the phone I want now, be nice if Apple nicked a few of these innovations/additions for their new OS...
> ...



hows does it monitor your movement?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 19, 2010)

sim667 said:


> hows does it monitor your movement?


I guess you strap it to yourself and it uses the accelerometer. Can't be that comfortable


----------



## sim667 (Jan 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I guess you strap it to yourself and it uses the accelerometer. Can't be that comfortable



thats what i was thinking....... i get into some weird positions when im asleep, i blates crack the screen or something


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2010)

On the site it says you put the iPhone on the bed, although not sure how clever that is for some people. And how does this work if you have a partner?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 19, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> On the site it says you put the iPhone on the bed, although not sure how clever that is for some people. *And how does this work if you have a partner?*



Or a partner with an iPhone too that has the app.... I'll let you know tomorrow if we remember to set both of them


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2010)

That app's graph will go wild if you have a bit of a session in the night.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> That app's graph will go wild if you have a bit of a session in the night.



See that long awake bit on my first pic 

It doesn't seem to pick Ms S movements when sleeping, you're sposed to put it just under the sheet in the corner, stops it falling off.
The accelerometer is essentially a spirit level, so I'd think it just sees how much you're tossing and turning. Not sure how it can claim to pick up REM sleep- probably just knows this usually happens just after deep sleep.
I'm not working at the mo, so my sleep patterns are all over the place, I'd be interested in how well it works for you with jobs.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 19, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> On the site it says you put the iPhone on the bed, although not sure how clever that is for some people. And how does this work if you have a partner?



Probably most users of this app consider the iPhone itself to be their partner.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 19, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Probably most users of this app consider the iPhone itself to be their partner.



You get funnier by the day...


----------



## teuchter (Jan 19, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Not sure how it can claim to pick up REM sleep- probably just knows this usually happens just after deep sleep.



It's probably nearly as scientific as those things the Scientologists use.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 19, 2010)

teuchter said:


> It's probably nearly as scientific as those things the Scientologists use.





> This isn't really something new. These so called bio-alarm clocks have been around for years and work very well, but they usually come with a hefty $200 price tag. I realized that the iPhone has all the components needed, and decided to make an alarm clock that works exactly the same, but sell it for a dollar or two instead." Maciek Drejak, the programmer behind the application, says.



It's 59p.. not exactly a massive loss if it doesn't work. I'll give it a go. Why don't you? Oh, you don't have an iPhone, hate them, repeatedly post that you do.

O..k


----------



## teuchter (Jan 19, 2010)

Kanda said:


> It's 59p.. not exactly a massive loss if it doesn't work. I'll give it a go. Why don't you? Oh, you don't have an iPhone, hate them, repeatedly post that you do.
> 
> O..k



1. The designer would say that they work, wouldn't he.

2. The Scientologists' machines have been around for years too. That doesn't mean that they actually do anything useful.

3. Previously available "bio-alarm clocks" have had sensors attached to the head "to detect brainwaves" and wrists "other physiological changes". Thsi one doesn't. You aren't comparing snake-oil apples with snake-oil apples.

4. With 59p you could buy a mars bar instead, and simultaneously be less gullible.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 19, 2010)

I don't eat chocolate.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 19, 2010)

Maybe a bag of cheese and onion crisps then.


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Probably most users of this app consider the iPhone itself to be their partner.





teuchter said:


> It's probably nearly as scientific as those things the Scientologists use.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 19, 2010)

Well, at least someone finds you funny, teuchter.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 19, 2010)

teuchter said:
			
		

> It's probably nearly as scientific as those things the Scientologists use.



What, actors?


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Well, at least someone finds you funny, teuchter.


Now that I've been assimilated into the iBorg, we need a Picard to fight the good fight.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:


> Now that I've been assimilated into the iBorg.



I know, have forgotten what my left palm looks like


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:


> Now that I've been assimilated into the iBorg, we need a Picard to fight the good fight.



Resistance is futile, etc etc...


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2010)

Rumoured to be coming up in iPhone v4.0 OS:

    * Global multitouch gestures, leveraged from similar iTablet OS
    * Background apps/Multitasking
    * UI enhanced for easier, more efficient navigation
    * iPhone 3G/3GS only (and presumable 4th gen iPhone later in June)
    * Will put iPhone way ahead of smartphone market, more like “full-fledged computer”
    * Apple people “really excited”
    * New but nebulous syncing for contacts and calendars

http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-os-4-0-details-leak-apple-people-excited/


----------



## Badgers (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:


> Rumoured to be coming up in iPhone v4.0 OS:
> 
> * Global multitouch gestures, leveraged from similar iTablet OS
> * Background apps/Multitasking
> ...



Apple get good rumour 

I am happy enough with my old 2G iPhone and am loathed to upgrade now due to long contract/cost so am holding on for this.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:


> * Will put iPhone way ahead of smartphone market, more like “full-fledged computer”



What does this actually mean? Various manufacturers have been trying to brand their smartphones as 'mobile computers' for some time.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 19, 2010)

teuchter said:


> What does this actually mean? Various manufacturers have been trying to brand their smartphones as 'mobile computers' for some time.



It means it's a rumour, like all rumours before Apple media events.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 19, 2010)

teuchter said:


> What does this actually mean? Various manufacturers have been trying to brand their smartphones as 'mobile computers' for some time.



What task do you do on a computer these days?

If you can do a reasonable subset of them on your phone and its easy enough that you do do those tasks, its starting to be less a phone and more a computer, no?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> Rumoured to be coming up in iPhone v4.0 OS:
> 
> * Global multitouch gestures, leveraged from similar iTablet OS
> * Background apps/Multitasking
> ...



Heh that sounds more like and excited wish list!


----------



## teuchter (Jan 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> What task do you do on a computer these days?
> 
> If you can do a reasonable subset of them on your phone and its easy enough that you do do those tasks, its starting to be less a phone and more a computer, no?



exactly; it's a sliding scale so a fairly meaningless thing.

I have gradually been able to do more things on my mobile each year for the last five or more years.

The point at which my mobile becomes a "mobile computer" is arbitary and made up every year by marketing departments.

I'm interested to know what this new iPhone that everyone will soon be high-fiving each other about will be able to do that will put it "way ahead of the smartphone market" in the "likeness to a fully fledged computer" stakes.

It seems quite a bold claim to make.

A removable battery perhaps? Maybe that's what they've got up their sleeves.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2010)

Ed, is there any way of getting rid of that Twitter widget from the mobile version? It's obscuring some of the posts...

Anyway had a proper read of the BGR site, what's the betting that the 'new contacts/calendar is something like Palms very cool synergy thing? 

Happy to read this will run on the 3GS too, looks like Apple are sticking with the big changes in OS/incremental hardware updates strategy.


----------



## ethel (Jan 20, 2010)

here's my sleep chart from last night. sort of explains why i feel awful when i wake up.


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ed, is there any way of getting rid of that Twitter widget from the mobile version? It's obscuring some of the posts...


It's sooo gone!



teuchter said:


> A removable battery perhaps? Maybe that's what they've got up their sleeves.


Revolutionary! What will those geniuses at Apple think of next?!

*high fives anyone passing by


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 20, 2010)

Nice one, it's ok on the main site but mobile it doesn't move (it was a flash thing I think?)...


----------



## Structaural (Jan 20, 2010)

editor said:


> Now that I've been assimilated into the iBorg, we need a Picard to fight the good fight.



True, but I think of Teuchter as more of a Reginald Barclay.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 20, 2010)

Structaural said:


> True, but I think of Teuchter as more of a Reginald Barclay.


Christ, I get this joke. There is no hope for me.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Christ, I get this joke. There is no hope for me.



So do I


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 20, 2010)

I don't. Does that make me cool?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 20, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't. Does that make me cool?



Are you a Trekkie?


----------



## g force (Jan 20, 2010)

I remember when MS claimed you could work on Excel on the move on WM phones....only when you can do that is it really a mobile computer. Until then it will just be a phone with access to online docs.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 20, 2010)

I had to look up Reginald Barclay on Wikipedia. Is this good or bad?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 20, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't. Does that make me cool?


It means you've watched a small enough number of Star Trek TNG episodes to avoid our grisly fate. I envy you.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 20, 2010)

Kanda said:
			
		

> Are you a Trekkie?



Oh good lord no!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 20, 2010)

Will the new iPhone 4G stream free horse pornography live from Germany? http://bit.ly/4Gshpr


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 20, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> Will the new iPhone 4G stream free horse pornography live from Germany? http://bit.ly/4Gshpr



I'm tempted to not click this link at work, tbh.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It means you've watched a small enough number of Star Trek TNG episodes to avoid our grisly fate. I envy you.



 ouch


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2010)

You want to see some serious multi-tasking? How about the Palm Pre Plus running FIFTY apps simultaneously - and then happily playing the graphics-hogging Need For Speed game with _all of them open!!!_

http://www.wirefresh.com/palm-pre-plus-multi-tasks-with-50-simultaneous-open-apps-video/

Now Apple: match that please in OS 4.0 because I'm stuck with you for some time now.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 21, 2010)

editor said:


> You want to see some serious multi-tasking? How about the Palm Pre Plus running FIFTY apps simultaneously - and then happily playing the graphics-hogging Need For Speed game with _all of them open!!!_
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/palm-pre-plus-multi-tasks-with-50-simultaneous-open-apps-video/
> 
> Now Apple: match that please in OS 4.0 because I'm stuck with you for some time now.



I love the way the way people get so worked up about new features from Palm and Apple when clunky old WinMo has been doing them for ages.







TBF I've only got about 20 open, which you can't see on the list, but I kept opening them and the game didn't slow down. 

I'm not saying cards isn't a nice way of doing it, but lots of articles I read seem to make out that Palm invented multi tasking on smartphones, when Nokia, WinMo and others have been doing it for years.

Same with having all facebook contacts and the like merged in your address book with a powerful search, HTC were doing it before the Pre was launched in the US.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 21, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> You want to see some serious multi-tasking? How about the Palm Pre Plus running FIFTY apps simultaneously - and then happily playing the graphics-hogging Need For Speed game with all of them open!!!
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/palm-pre-plus-multi-tasks-with-50-simultaneous-open-apps-video/
> 
> Now Apple: match that please in OS 4.0 because I'm stuck with you for some time now.



Lol like you're gonna have even half that amount open in the real world at any one time!


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol like you're gonna have even half that amount open in the real world at any one time!


Having just two programs multi tasking on the iPhone would be an improvement.



Global_Stoner said:


> I love the way the way people get so worked up about new features from Palm and Apple when clunky old WinMo has been doing them for ages..


You really are having a laugh. WM is a clunky, chunky, memory hogging, dog-ugly beast of an OS compared to Palm's slick webOS.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 22, 2010)

Editor - as a matter of interest what was it that made you switch from the Palm to the iphone? With hindsight do you feel it was a good decision?


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Editor - as a matter of interest what was it that made you switch from the Palm to the iphone? With hindsight do you feel it was a good decision?


I switched with reluctance. My Pre had a hardware problem and after spending a very, very long time on the phone to O2 - and eventually being put through to a devastatingly disinterested Palm tech support bloke - I feared that I was going to be stuck with a lemon for the duration of my 18 months contract (my longest contract ever!).

The Palm guy was insisting that I waste my time running through a load of software resets before they'd even accept the phone back _for repair_. Seeing as the phone was was less than 6 weeks old (and I'd already reported problems) after the bloke refused point blank to offer an exchange - and spouted EU law as the reason -  I had a bit of a hissy fit and bailed.

O2 could only offer me a Blackberry or an iPhone, so I joined the iBorg.

After using both phones, it's a case of swings and roundabouts, but if the iPhone v4.0 adds multi-tasking a lot of the Pre's advantages will disappear. 

I did rather like not having the same phone as every other fucker in the pub though, but ultimately I rely on my phone a lot for my work, so I need something that just works, and the iPhone certainly does that. At least, so far.


----------



## paolo (Jan 22, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> I love the way the way people get so worked up about new features from Palm and Apple when clunky old WinMo has been doing them for ages.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yep, that's it. Apple and Palm really dream of the day they can offer the Windows Mobile experience.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Yep, that's it. Apple and Palm really dream of the day they can offer the Windows Mobile experience.


Those big clunky red 'x's are sooooo user friendly!


----------



## paolo (Jan 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Those big clunky red 'x's are sooooo user friendly!



You just pop out your stylus... Oh, hang on...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Having just two programs multi tasking on the iPhone would be an improvement.
> 
> You really are having a laugh. WM is a clunky, chunky, memory hogging, dog-ugly beast of an OS compared to Palm's slick webOS.





> Those big clunky red 'x's are sooooo user friendly!



TBF I said it clould be on the clunky side and that cards were a nicer way of doing things, but memory hogging? There's a whole load of apps open there and NFS is playing just fine.

Out of interest have you used Sense or even 6.5? I lost my stylus many months ago and can't say I miss it other then when I'm skinning up. 

X's - Could be prettier, but just jab them with end of your thumb, does the job fine. 



> Yep, that's it. Apple and Palm really dream of the day they can offer the Windows Mobile experience.



That wasn't my point tbf. This isn't me saying its better then Apple or Palm, just its starting to annoy me slightly when either phone gets new features and its reported like they invented them, when I've been running them for ages. For example Palm Synergy or more recently the Pre being able to be used as a WiFi Router.


----------



## themonkeyman (Jan 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Those big clunky red 'x's are sooooo user friendly!



tic tac toe anyone


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> Out of interest have you used Sense or even 6.5? I lost my stylus many months ago and can't say I miss it other then when I'm skinning up.


The problem with Sense is that it only papers over the cracks, and sooner or later you're dumped down deep into the stylus-driven world of the truly miserable WM. 

Oh, and the Synergy concept was first released on the Palm, and HTC swiftly copied it.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 22, 2010)

editor said:


> The problem with Sense is that it only papers over the cracks, and sooner or later you're dumped down deep into the stylus-driven world of the truly miserable WM.
> 
> Oh, and the Synergy concept was first released on the Palm, and HTC swiftly copied it.



Have you used it? Like I said I lost my stylus months ago, before I installed Sense and have had no call for it. Not suprising really as the Leo for which it was designed for _doesn't come with a stylus_. Even Touchflow that came before 

Synergy may have be announced by Palm first, but I was using the equivalent courtesy of xda developers before the Pre had a US release. 

Anyway this isn't supposed to be a winmo is better then apple or palm rant, just that many of the cooler things that appear on it never get mentioned until they are copied by someone else.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Having just two programs multi tasking on the iPhone would be an improvement.



You can listen to music while surfing the web already.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You can listen to music while surfing the web already.


Not if you're listening to music streamed from a web site/online radio station. And Spotify is all but useless on an iPhone as it's can't be run in the background.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 22, 2010)

I don't know why those of you bemoaning the lack of multi-tasking don't just jailbreak. It doesn't void your warranty, it takes less than a second.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Not if you're listening to music streamed from a web site/online radio station. And Spotify is all but useless on an iPhone as it's can't be run in the background.



Of course, was just being a pedant. 

But yeah even limited multitasking (like say up to any 4 apps open at a time) would be a nice addition to a great device. Personally though as I've said before if it was a choice I'd have better battery over multitasking...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 22, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I don't know why those of you bemoaning the lack of multi-tasking don't just jailbreak. It doesn't void your warranty, it takes less than a second.



Isn't it a bit fiddly? And wont O2 disconnect you if you get caught?


----------



## belboid (Jan 22, 2010)

mmm, i'm eligible for an upgrade to an iphone from today, can't decide whether i should bother or not...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 22, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> Anyway this isn't supposed to be a winmo is better then apple or palm rant



Probably for the best, really.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 22, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Isn't it a bit fiddly? And wont O2 disconnect you if you get caught?



Why would you ever get caught? If you ever needed to take it into a store, just restore it to 'normal' through itunes.

Fiddly? No. http://www.blackra1n.com/ plug in your phone, run that app, 2 seconds later you have jailbroken iPhone.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 22, 2010)

Is there any discernible reduction in stability once you've jailbroken an iPhone?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 22, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Is there any discernible reduction in stability once you've jailbroken an iPhone?



Not that I've found. It's quite a mature hack scene.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Jan 22, 2010)

my jailbroken original iPhone is very stable...I wish I had a 3g or 3gs so I could use the gps jogging apps etc

so do I upgrade now or wait how long for the next gen iPhone....grrr


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 22, 2010)

editor said:


> The problem with Sense is that it only papers over the cracks, and sooner or later you're dumped down deep into the stylus-driven world of the truly miserable WM.





> Have you used it?



I'll take that as a no then?


----------



## Sunray (Jan 22, 2010)

Windows Mobile is world renowned for being crap. 

There is no debate here.  Its crap, its great at vertical applications where it has owned some markets for years, but as a general purpose OS for a Mobile phone it failed and continues to fail as I type this.  No matter how happy you are with your failed OS, that does not detract that its crap and why the only phone people are talking about are new Operating systems like WebOS and Mobile OSX.   

Even MS has admitted that its a bit crap.

The world is looking at WM7 for something interesting to talk about.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 22, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:
			
		

> Why would you ever get caught? If you ever needed to take it into a store, just restore it to 'normal' through itunes.
> 
> Fiddly? No. http://www.blackra1n.com/ plug in your phone, run that app, 2 seconds later you have jailbroken iPhone.



Oh right so apple/o2 can't tell in any way that you've jail broken your phone? Will have a look into this...


----------



## teuchter (Jan 22, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Not that I've found. It's quite a mature hack scene.



One wonders why apple didn't enable multitasking if it can be demonstrated not to have an impact on the phone's performance.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 22, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Windows Mobile is world renowned for being crap.
> 
> There is no debate here.  Its crap, its great at vertical applications where it has owned some markets for years, but as a general purpose OS for a Mobile phone it failed and continues to fail as I type this.  No matter how happy you are with your failed OS, that does not detract that its crap and why the only phone people are talking about are new Operating systems like WebOS and Mobile OSX.
> 
> ...




You'll not find a single post where I claim its better then Palm or Apple.

I pointed out that it wasn't that impressive that the Pre could run lots apps, when a failed OS that nobody is interested in has been able to do the same thing for ages, given equivalent hardware. 

From my understanding of WM7 is built from the ground up, so existing apps won't be compatible with it, so my only reason for sticking with MS will be gone.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> I'll take that as a no then?


Sorrry, I didn't realise I was compelled to answer this question, and that it was so vital to the discussion. 

I've used HTC's glossed-up WM interfaces since they first started out at TouchFLO (which is what Sense is based on) and have played with almost all the versions on Android. I've also seen endless videos, sceeengrabs and reviewsof the WM version, so I'd say I'm up to speed with it.

The bit you seem keen to avoid is that eventually, no matter how you spin it you will at some point be dumped into the ugly world of Windows once you start installing third party prorgams. 




> All of these improvements are really handsome and obviously quite welcome, but when push comes to shove, what really matters is the phone's performance. So, does Sense make Windows Mobile 6.5 a great OS? Does it circumvent or fix some of the obvious shortcomings of the aging platform? In a word... no. While there are many cases on the phone where Sense corrects issues that Microsoft's mobile operating system has right now, there are also many places where plain-jane Windows Mobile rears its head -- and that thing ain't pretty. Obviously HTC couldn't go about rewriting every app out there to play nice with its UI, but once you dig down into certain areas of the phone, you get that creeping feeling that you're not in Kansas anymore. Not anywhere close.
> 
> Look, we're not asking for much, but when you're using Excel, it would be nice to be able to use the accelerometer functionality to get a landscape view -- instead, that kind of natural, familiar movement isn't present at all. In other areas, it's just the plain clunkiness of WM that ruins the experience; sure, the new homescreen and its staggered icon arrangement are fine, but take a look at the file browser, or even Outlook, which is what HTC's nice (though not very functional) mail widget dives down into. It reminded us most of looking at the Palm OS at the end of its lifecycle. And that's not good.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/25/htc-hd2-review/





> And don’t get me wrong, this whole Sense thing is surprisingly usable—it’s a fairly rare occasion that you fall out of HTC’s safe, smooth, grey-and-black arms, and into the Windows 3.1-esque hell that has been, and somehow still is, a Windows Mobile hallmark .
> 
> With Sense HTC has made a sort of meta-OS, which uses Windows Mobile 6.5 as a behind-the-scenes stagehand, which only shows its face when it absolutely needs to. HTC has even added multitouch to the browser, maps and photo applications, which works surprisingly well for what almost certainly qualifies as an after-the-fact hack.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> I pointed out that it wasn't that impressive that the Pre could run lots apps, when a failed OS that nobody is interested in has been able to do the same thing for ages, given equivalent hardware.


You're missing the point. To consumers, it's never been about specs or technical abilities. It's about _the overall user experience_. 

Palm and Apple phones excel at this. WM phones are about the worst, and because they're perceived as ugly, fiddly things with inconsistent interfaces, their market share is rightly plummeting. 

HTC have done wonders in covering up the beastliness of the WM OS, and the fact they've had to go to such extreme lengths just to make it remotely usable speaks volumes of the failings of Windows Mobile.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Sorrry, I didn't realise I was compelled to answer this question, and that it was so vital to the discussion.
> 
> The bit you seem keen to avoid is that eventually, no matter how you spin it you will at some point be dumped into the ugly world of Windows once you start installing third party prorgams.



I mentioned that you don't need a stylus as the phone Sense is designed for doesn't come with one, none of the rest I even debated. 

I'm not Windows Fanboi, I choose to use because my killer app isn't available on other platforms. I don't know why HTC have bothered to put the huge amount of work into sense for a platform like WinMo, but for my sake, I'm glad they have and they've done a dam good job.

Anyway it was never my intention to stand here and defend the platform, the first thing I said was....



> I love the way the way people get so worked up about new features from Palm and Apple when *clunky old WinMo* has been doing them for ages.



Goes back to lurking thread.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 23, 2010)

Anyway I'll post something Iphone related now...was inspired to do some googling as thought its mad to be stuck on a platform for just one app.

No sign of memory map converting their software of osx, android or web os, but have found this.

Road Tour - OS Mapping on Iphone 



> *  Maps on your iPhone so no need for internet access
> * See current position on an OS map
> * Complete (non-urban) GB Road-map
> * Scroll and Zoom anywhere around the UK
> ...



Downside is I already have the whole of the UK for memory map, but at least if you are buying them again its cheaper.

Any iphone owners want to have a look and report back?


----------



## Badgers (Jan 23, 2010)

£12.99 for full version which is half price 
Not had many ratings so far (6) and they are half bad, half good. 
App size is about 1GB 

There is a lite version for £1.79 but the reviews are not glowing.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2010)

I'm using roadmap. It's a bit clunky, but if you're after a load of Ordnance Survey maps, it's just dandy.

The route tracking doesn't work yet and there's not a lot of functionality but seeing as I can quite happily pass away hours staring at OS maps, it's all win for me!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 23, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm using roadmap. It's a bit clunky, but if you're after a load of Ordnance Survey maps, it's just dandy.
> 
> The route tracking doesn't work yet and there's not a lot of functionality but seeing as I can quite happily pass away hours staring at OS maps, it's all win for me!



My workmate has iphone, so when he's back I'll get him to look. Have you bought many maps? The problem I can see to multiple bits of software is the maps aren't cheap, so testing different software is a pain.

The only downside I can see other having rebuy maps is the capacitive screen makes it hard to use in a waterproof a standard waterproof case. Does anyone know of any solutions round this?

I know this is the Iphone thread, but does anyone know any equivalent software for Android?


----------



## Badgers (Jan 23, 2010)

Pleased that TapaTalk have changed their app icon now


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 23, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Pleased that TapaTalk have changed their app icon now



Heh I was too, doesn't look so amateur now. Hopefully we'll get some decent new features soon too.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 23, 2010)

teuchter said:


> One wonders why apple didn't enable multitasking if it can be demonstrated not to have an impact on the phone's performance.



Usability. How many people would remain unaware of having 20 apps open and grumble that it was a bit slow?

I've not really noticed any huge benefit to multitasking, so I can see why they did it.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 23, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Usability. How many people would remain unaware of having 20 apps open and grumble that it was a bit slow?



So it does have an effect on the phone's performance.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 23, 2010)

More battery life...nothing for raping the battery like leaving google maps running with the gps and forgetting about it.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 23, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> my jailbroken original iPhone is very stable...I wish I had a 3g or 3gs so I could use the gps jogging apps etc
> 
> so do I upgrade now or wait how long for the next gen iPhone....grrr



If you already have an iPhone, even the 3GS will not give you much more than you already have. The 3GS was no more than a minor bump in Apples upgrade process, I'd wait.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 23, 2010)

teuchter said:


> So it does have an effect on the phone's performance.



Battery wise, of course.


----------



## paolo (Jan 23, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Usability. How many people would remain unaware of having 20 apps open and grumble that it was a bit slow?
> 
> I've not really noticed any huge benefit to multitasking, so I can see why they did it.



For certain niche of 3rd party apps it's incredibly valuable. Ed's citing of Spotify is the perfect example. In fact, for a unique media player like that, I'd say it's actually essential.

A compromise would be to make it something you enable via settings. And there is an argument, of course, that a WebOS style cards interface would make it obvious what is running. (A 'task manager' is, of course, sooooo not the right idea).


----------



## mincepie (Jan 23, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> Anyway I'll post something Iphone related now...was inspired to do some googling as thought its mad to be stuck on a platform for just one app.
> 
> No sign of memory map converting their software of osx, android or web os, but have found this.




http://www.memory-map.co.uk/iphone/


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 23, 2010)

Woot...I'm due an upgrade around June/July time as well.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 24, 2010)

Well, I jailbroke my iPhone yesterday, now that it's out of contract.

Errr, not really sure why, at this point. Yes, there's lots of unofficial apps available. But fuck me, are they almost all crashy, buggy rubbish.

There's a reason why Apple don't allow this poorly coded toss into the official store!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 24, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Well, I jailbroke my iPhone yesterday, now that it's out of contract.
> 
> Errr, not really sure why, at this point. Yes, there's lots of unofficial apps available. But fuck me, are they almost all crashy, buggy rubbish.
> 
> There's a reason why Apple don't allow this poorly coded toss into the official store!



 Which apps do you refer to? All the jailbroken apps I use are great.

(and, btw, you can get 'evaluation' versions of legit software on a jailbroken iPhone - www.appulo.us)


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 24, 2010)

Maybe it's just me, and I found shit apps, then. 

These were from Rock. There's a few that work, although my 3G seems sloooooooooooooooooow with Backgrounder on. A lot of the free ones (iDock, for example) just seem to crash springboard, or the app itself.

I'll check out your link, though, cheers.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 25, 2010)

Getting onto that site seems to be a bit of a skill, though.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 25, 2010)

Ah, it can be a fucker. .ipa files (apps) can be found in all the usual outlets as well.

I haven't noticed any slow down from backgrounder.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 25, 2010)

I reckon I could probably work out the troll gate, but I've got better things to do right now.

Tbh, bad choice of sysapp to begin with (forgotten its name, sorry), and then a couple of bad fee app choices on the back of that... I've taken the system thing, the dock app and a couple of others I was playing with off... and it seems much better.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 25, 2010)

iPhone keeps buried earthquake victim alive for three days...

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/21/iphone_medical_aid/



Am sure a 5 year old Nokia would have done the same. Just thought it was a cool story.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2010)

Kanda said:


> iPhone keeps buried earthquake victim alive for three days...
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/01/21/iphone_medical_aid/
> 
> ...


If the person has been buried for much longer, then he would have needed a five year old Nokia for the battery life!


----------



## Kanda (Jan 25, 2010)

editor said:


> If the person has been buried for much longer, then he would have needed a five year old Nokia for the battery life!



hehe


----------



## Badgers (Jan 26, 2010)

Got given mine second hand (2G) and I am pretty sure the headphone socket is buggered. 
Is there any point in going to an Apple store to have it looked at?


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Jan 26, 2010)

Badgers - my 2g only works with straight headphone plugs like the original apple ones...my own sennheiser headphones have an angled plug and this doesn't seem to go in far enough to work...hth


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Got given mine second hand (2G) and I am pretty sure the headphone socket is buggered.
> Is there any point in going to an Apple store to have it looked at?


Most likely the shit design of the 2G that only allows thin apple-like headphone plugs to fit


----------



## belboid (Jan 26, 2010)

well, i succumbed yesterday and traded up to one of these thingys.  i think I've jsut about sussed its basics out now, so...

do I want to jailbreak it now? What are the advatages, except for getting a bunch more apps I probably wont use.  other than as a phone I'd like some nice GPS stuff, to be able to run the radio in the background, watch live telly occasionally I suppose and maybe get some antiquarian site stuff on there.  Oh and a video camera I suppose.  Do I need to jailbreak it for all them?


----------



## sim667 (Jan 26, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Most likely the shit design of the 2G that only allows thin apple-like headphone plugs to fit



yeah that was a problem with the 2g....... I bought a monster headphone adapter mic, i had 3 in total, all shit lots of arguments at the apple store about that


----------



## Badgers (Jan 26, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Most likely the shit design of the 2G that only allows thin apple-like headphone plugs to fit



I have not yet tried a set of proper apple phones 

Only get one channel, even through an adapter.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2010)

sim667 said:


> yeah that was a problem with the 2g....... I bought a monster headphone adapter mic, i had 3 in total, all shit lots of arguments at the apple store about that


It was a dreadful piece of design, but at least it wasn't the stupid proprietary charger/headphone socket combo that the Google G1 was burdened with. You couldn't use the headphones and charge the phone at the same time! Fucking genius.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 26, 2010)

Need to find some 'thin apple-like headphone plugs' I guess....


----------



## Sunray (Jan 26, 2010)

You can just buy one of these..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-3-5mm-Ste...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item5638705986


----------



## themonkeyman (Jan 26, 2010)

belboid said:


> well, i succumbed yesterday and traded up to one of these thingys.  i think I've jsut about sussed its basics out now, so...
> 
> do I want to jailbreak it now? What are the advatages, except for getting a bunch more apps I probably wont use.  other than as a phone I'd like some nice GPS stuff, to be able to run the radio in the background, watch live telly occasionally I suppose and maybe get some antiquarian site stuff on there.  Oh and a video camera I suppose.  Do I need to jailbreak it for all them?



I jailbroke mine a while ago and got fed up with it, apart from the backgrounder and the 5 icon dock I didn't really use it for anything else so I went back to the normal OS.

There are some bits that you could only get on jailbroken store cydia, but for me that was stuff like the video camera for the 3g.  But you can get 3G video apps now anyway, so even more reason to stay unjailbroken.

Willing to be convinced otherwise though, but I can't really see a case for it.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 26, 2010)

Sunray said:


> You can just buy one of these..
> 
> http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NEW-3-5mm-Ste...emQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item5638705986



I picked up a Griffin one of these but only got one channel 
Might give the adaptor one last try


----------



## Pie 1 (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> It was a dreadful piece of design



Yep, judging by how quickly they dropped it for the 3G, I think even Apple realised they might have taken the piss one step to far with that one!


----------



## Sunray (Jan 26, 2010)

Badgers said:


> I picked up a Griffin one of these but only got one channel
> Might give the adaptor one last try



Make sure there is no fluff in the hole (hehe)  Take it to the Apple shop in Regents St for a test.  They will de-fluff it for you.

The headphones do work don't they.


----------



## Badgers (Jan 26, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Make sure there is no fluff in the hole (hehe)  Take it to the Apple shop in Regents St for a test.  They will de-fluff it for you.
> 
> The headphones do work don't they.



Will try that cheers. 

Headphones are fine. 
Tried a few pairs on this.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 26, 2010)

themonkeyman said:


> I jailbroke mine a while ago and got fed up with it, apart from the backgrounder and the 5 icon dock I didn't really use it for anything else so I went back to the normal OS.
> 
> There are some bits that you could only get on jailbroken store cydia, but for me that was stuff like the video camera for the 3g.  But you can get 3G video apps now anyway, so even more reason to stay unjailbroken.
> 
> Willing to be convinced otherwise though, but I can't really see a case for it.



Basically, you can "evaluate" apps, if you can find 'em.

So, if you want loads of apps, may be worthwhile. If, like me, you've mostly already got what you want anyway, probably not really worth it.

So it seems so far, anyway.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 26, 2010)

editor said:


> It was a dreadful piece of design, but at least it wasn't the stupid proprietary charger/headphone socket combo that the Google G1 was burdened with. You couldn't use the headphones and charge the phone at the same time! Fucking genius.





Apple did it on purpose so you could only use their headphones though didnt they?


----------



## Structaural (Jan 26, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> These were from Rock. There's a few that work, although my 3G seems sloooooooooooooooooow with Backgrounder on. A lot of the free ones (iDock, for example) just seem to crash springboard, or the app itself.
> 
> I'll check out your link, though, cheers.



Rock gets a bit of bad press, I prefer the original Cydia. I find it's Winterboard that slows down the iPhone 3G the most, but there's a settings app that makes it a bit quicker. Depends how much you want a picture in the background.

Apps are often more useful in the jailbreaking community because they get that low-level access to the system that you want. So you can sync calendars more easily with iCal or have more useful access to your contacts.

My reason's for jailbreaking are mostly:

Backgrounder with ProSwitcher (with palm pre-like swipe up to quit app):





I mainly background Music apps (there's also an iPod like controller app on Cydia to control most music apps while backgrounding).

CyDialer, call favourites in cover flow style from lock screen:





Universal Search, makes Spotlight a bit more useful (including some snazzy spring loaded buttons):





Coverflow to get all your screens at once and scroll up and down:





and evaluation software (or there's no way I'm buying TomTom for a little bit of cycling):





That's about it really, not interested in themes, quite happy with the Apple GUI, TomTom is the only pirate software I run (and I installed that through iTunes lol). It syncs happily with iTunes, including being able to move the jailbroken apps around in there. And it's a good middle finger up to Apple's 'walled-garden' approach. Oh and Adblock really speeds my browsing up...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 26, 2010)

Ta, I'll have to try Cydia. 

Now, the switcher one just crashes on mine. Every time you take off your finger, springboard just dies (and comes back to the "blah blah has not caused the problem, it has saved you from it..." screen). Same as the dock one. Odd, but I'm not that fussed about it.

TomTom... I can totally understand why some people might want that one, but meh, I can't see me using it.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 26, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Now, the switcher one just crashes on mine. Every time you take off your finger, springboard just dies (and comes back to the "blah blah has not caused the problem, it has saved you from it..." screen). Same as the dock one. Odd, but I'm not that fussed about it.



I've never, ever seen that error. Bizarre!


----------



## Bungle73 (Jan 26, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Rock gets a bit of bad press, I prefer the original Cydia.


I thought they installed exactly the same apps, just with a different user interface?  I prefer Rock, and I've had no problems with it.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 27, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> I thought they installed exactly the same apps, just with a different user interface?  I prefer Rock, and I've had no problems with it.



I don't like the fact that they install a load of their own proprietary extensions (which caused me a few problems), instead of using the tried and tested mobilesubstrate and apt routes. They're also responsible for that bloated and badly coded intelliscreen. I used it for a month, but ended up removing it and 'icy'.
Each to their own though, I understand why people like it, it looks slick, but Saurik has publicly berated them for their bad code.

I think it's best to pick either and stick with it, but they don't always play nice together. There's more 'stuff' on cydia too.


----------



## Structaural (Jan 27, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:
			
		

> Ta, I'll have to try Cydia.
> 
> Now, the switcher one just crashes on mine. Every time you take off your finger, springboard just dies (and comes back to the "blah blah has not caused the problem, it has saved you from it..." screen). Same as the dock one. Odd, but I'm not that fussed about it.
> 
> TomTom... I can totally understand why some people might want that one, but meh, I can't see me using it.



Yeah I've had a few probs with proswitcher crashing springboard, I uninstalled a few non-essential things and it's fine now. I think jaibreaking in a 3gs gives you a bit more memory space to play with, unlike my 3G. I use SBSettings to free memory quite often.

I use TomTom on bicycle mode, it's great for cycling to new places with the iPod playing and directions given when you need them, no need to even take it out of my pocket- keep it backgrounded and you can take calls without it quiting too...


----------



## futha (Jan 31, 2010)

So, anyone got any ideas when the next iPhone will appear? Sorry if this has been covered but I can't read through 209 pages!


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2010)

futha said:


> So, anyone got any ideas when the next iPhone will appear? Sorry if this has been covered but I can't read through 209 pages!


I'd be very surprised if you'll be able to get your hands on a new model for at least four months.


----------



## futha (Jan 31, 2010)

editor said:


> I'd be very surprised if you'll be able to get your hands on a new model for at least four months.



So you reckon this summer then? I am debating whether to get a 3gs or wait a few months for a new and even better one, of course by that logic I could be waiting for ever and never actually get anything


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 31, 2010)

futha said:
			
		

> So you reckon this summer then? I am debating whether to get a 3gs or wait a few months for a new and even better one, of course by that logic I could be waiting for ever and never actually get anything



If you can wait you may as well but the 3GS doesn't disappoint.


----------



## futha (Jan 31, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If you can wait you may as well but the 3GS doesn't disappoint.



It is the camera that puts me off slightly tbh. No flash  I don't use my phone camera loads but it does come in handy and it is usually in darker environments.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 31, 2010)

futha said:
			
		

> It is the camera that puts me off slightly tbh. No flash  I don't use my phone camera loads but it does come in handy and it is usually in darker environments.



Ah right. It could do with a better camera but I don't tend to use it much so it's not a huge thing either...rumour has it the next will have a 5mp camera, not heard anything about flash though.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 31, 2010)

Apple will never support Flash.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/31...-google-adobe-next-iphone-2010-macs-and-more/

Next iPhone to be an A+ upgrade though....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 31, 2010)

Kanda said:
			
		

> Apple will never support Flash.
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/31...-google-adobe-next-iphone-2010-macs-and-more/
> 
> Next iPhone to be an A+ upgrade though....



Apols meant flash on the camera.


----------



## futha (Feb 1, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Apple will never support Flash.
> 
> http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/31...-google-adobe-next-iphone-2010-macs-and-more/
> 
> Next iPhone to be an A+ upgrade though....



Sorry I meant the camera flash. Wonder why they don't stick one on the iPhone, its the only thing that puts me off!


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

The camera on the iPhone is pretty fucking shit. It's reasonable in bright light, but awful for anything else. What makes it doubly frustrating is that there's so many wonderful apps for editing images on the phone after, but you're never going to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

It could be slightly improved if you could control exposure when you're shooting, but AFAIK there's no apps to let you directly control the camera itself.


----------



## Pie 1 (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> It could be slightly improved if you could control exposure when you're shooting, but AFAIK there's no apps to let you directly control the camera itself.



It's not great & can't be locked, but I take it you know that on the 3gs, you can at least tap a darker area of the image during composition & it will adjust to a brighter exposure?

Personally, I've now decided to just get over the shitness of the camera. I've decided to start thinking of it as an old polaroid camera or an instamatic.
The image quality on those were pretty lousy too, but they had a 'feel' to the picture that got you past it.
Same with the iPhone & all the funky post prod apps knocking around.
I'm actually enjoying it much more now as a result & getting some nice snaps. 
(Still have the LX3 in the day bag for more serious snaps etc)


----------



## Gromit (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> It could be slightly improved if you could control exposure when you're shooting, but AFAIK there's no apps to let you directly control the camera itself.


 
Its difficult to press the virtual button and keep the camera steady with a short exposure. 

Can you imagine the results you'd get with a long exposure at night?

My advice remains for all iPhone users. If you really want to take pics carry a compact with you and only use your iPhone for a desperation backup.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> It's not great & can't be locked, but I take it you know that on the 3gs, you can at least tap a darker area of the image during composition & it will adjust to a brighter exposure?


You can, but it can play havoc with the already glacial focussing which can take an eternity in low light. 

If you're going the cheap'n'cheerful route I think Palm got it right with its fixed focus, super fast snapper. With flash!


----------



## Sunray (Feb 1, 2010)

I just don't use it and would like a massively improved camera on the iPhone.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 1, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Yeah I've had a few probs with proswitcher crashing springboard, I uninstalled a few non-essential things and it's fine now. I think jaibreaking in a 3gs gives you a bit more memory space to play with, unlike my 3G. I use SBSettings to free memory quite often.
> 
> I use TomTom on bicycle mode, it's great for cycling to new places with the iPod playing and directions given when you need them, no need to even take it out of my pocket- keep it backgrounded and you can take calls without it quiting too...



Cheers. I've actually reset and re-broken it now - this time with Cydia, which does seem to be a bit better. It's only a 3G, though, so it is a bit memory limited, but I think i'll just spare myself the fancy dock-esque apps (lets face it, you don't really need 'em) and go for more useful stuff.

On which note, can anyone recommend calendar and alarm clock apps?


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> On which note, can anyone recommend calendar and alarm clock apps?


The calendar apps are all pretty much shit thanks to Apple's 'no competition' policies in that regard. Both Palm and Android's default calendars are equally shit too for that matter, but at least developers are allowed to play around and create alternatives.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 1, 2010)

Shitter than the default Apple one?


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Shitter than the default Apple one?


Yep, but at least better third party alternatives are available.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> The calendar apps are all pretty much shit thanks to Apple's 'no competition' policies in that regard. Both Palm and Android's default calendars are equally shit too for that matter, but at least developers are allowed to play around and create alternatives.



Strictly speaking, it's not the 'no competition' clause in the approval process that limits this, but the lack of API's in the SDK to enable it. Of course, these both stem from the same desire on Apple's part to maintain control over the core functionality of the devices.

I was under the impression that the 3rd party apps were pretty good, but only sufferered from poor desktop sync (they all sync to Google calendar though) and from the lack of access to the system calendar


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 1, 2010)

Any names to recommend, please? The default one is so crap, I feel like trying something else, even if only to ultimately be disappointed...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> The calendar apps are all pretty much shit thanks to Apple's 'no competition' policies in that regard. Both Palm and Android's default calendars are equally shit too for that matter, but at least developers are allowed to play around and create alternatives.



That's actually been a bigger adjustment than no multitasking for me, I really really miss the excellent Agendus pro I had on the Centro...


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

Pocket Informant is reckoned to be the best I think

I don't really do much complex calendaring on my touch, but I can still tell the 1st party app is a limited thing.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I was under the impression that the 3rd party apps were pretty good, but only sufferered from poor desktop sync (they all sync to Google calendar though) and from the lack of access to the system calendar


I've yet to find one decent enough to match the calendars I had on my Treo _six years ago. _



Kid_Eternity said:


> That's actually been a bigger adjustment than no multitasking for me, I really really miss the excellent Agendus pro I had on the Centro...


Agendus are trying really hard to bring over their excellent Agendus app to the iphone, but they're totally hamstrung but Apple's control freakery, as their blog explains:



> *- Q: "Is Agendus for iPhone going to have Calendar integration and  where are you on that?"*
> 
> - *A: Yes, it is going to.* After much looking around for options,  at least for the moment we decided to go for taking care of storing  calendar data separate from the native iPhone Calendar app (also because  no way to get to it, and unclear if/when Apple will ever allow that  through one of the future SDK updates). Personally, not a fan of this  solution, but all considered is probably the best we can shoot for.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Pocket Informant is reckoned to be the best I think.


It's pretty awful and betrays its WM heritage.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 1, 2010)

editor said:


> It's pretty awful and betrays its WM heritage.



Not a good review for a £7.50 app...


----------



## Crispy (Feb 1, 2010)

£7 pounds splutter 50?!?
harrrumph


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 1, 2010)

Indeed.

Just been looking at the free lite version - apparently looks the same, but with a cut down functionality.

Mr Editor is quite correct, at first glance. Bulky and slow. Won't be investing in the full version.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> £7 pounds splutter 50?!?
> harrrumph


It was horrible on WM, and I guess even more bulk would have to accompany the iPhone version. CalenGoo looks the best of a rum bunch, but even thatr's four quid. 

This is what I want: something simple that I can customise with my own fonts, icons and colours, and display to-dos, notes and upcoming months.

This Palm app is six years old and pisses all over the iPhone offerings.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 1, 2010)

It's looking like you're right, ed.

No decent calendar app that I can see.

Blimey, that's you and revol in 2 days I've had to agree with... whatever next??!!?


----------



## kropotkin (Feb 1, 2010)

Ed, you're wrong on this one IMO

I've tried most of the prominent iphone ones now, and have settled on the newest version of PocketInformant after having been disappointed with a previous version.
It currently offers the best usability. It is slightly laggy, but integrates perfectly with gcal and provides push notification alarms.

Until apple allow developers access to the calendar database, this is the best app.
Apart fromthe developments in online syncing with cloud services like gcal, there is nothing that beats datebk6 on the palm for agenda management. Such a big step backwards since then.


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2010)

kropotkin said:


> Ed, you're wrong on this one IMO....
> Apart fromthe developments in online syncing with cloud services like gcal, there is nothing that beats datebk6 on the palm for agenda management. Such a big step backwards since then.


How am I wrong when you've basically agreed with what I've just said?



The third party calendars on the iPhone are a pretty awful kludge whichever way you look at it. I had hopes that Agendus - whose Palm calendar apps kicks anything on the iPhone into orbit and beyond - would come up with something but they've basically decided to complete rewrite the thing again after their first effort was horribly botched due to Apple's restrictions. 

PocketInformant is a good enough effort but I really expect something _better_ than what I was using six years ago!


----------



## live_jayeola (Feb 2, 2010)

I think that this is really cool , putting OS X on a Nokia
http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/334683/hack_brings_mac_os_x_nokia_n900


----------



## Structaural (Feb 2, 2010)

live_jayeola said:


> I think that this is really cool , putting OS X on a Nokia
> http://www.goodgearguide.com.au/article/334683/hack_brings_mac_os_x_nokia_n900



Brilliant  unusable, but love the fact that they did it...


----------



## Badgers (Feb 2, 2010)

Mine is dead


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 2, 2010)

kropotkin said:


> Ed, you're wrong on this one IMO
> 
> I've tried most of the prominent iphone ones now, and have settled on the newest version of PocketInformant after having been disappointed with a previous version.
> It currently offers the best usability. It is slightly laggy, but integrates perfectly with gcal and provides push notification alarms.
> ...



Hmmm. From my initial playing with the free app, I can't see me wanting to pay £7.50 for the full one...


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Mine is dead


what's the coroner's report?


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2010)

Crispy said:


> what's the coroner's report?


It's just in.

It's iDead.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2010)

ilaughed


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2010)

What phone does a Rastafarian carry?

An i and i phone.

iCoat got.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 2, 2010)

editor said:


> It's just in.
> 
> It's iDead.





It went iSwimming in a bowl of water. 
Managed to get the slippery little fucker out but not quick enough it seems. 
Pulled the sim card out which I promptly fired across the room into piles of packing. 
Am now using a Nokia that is iCrap


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2010)

put it in the airing cupboard for a week, dock connector upwards. with luck, it will work again when dried


----------



## Badgers (Feb 2, 2010)

Crispy said:


> put it in the airing cupboard for a week, dock connector upwards. with luck, it will work again when dried



Don't have an airing cupboard but is above the radiator with dock connector upwards

Have got the insurance claim form in hand but decided just to bite the bullet and get new ones for wifey and me. So I may end up with three new iPhones


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Have got the insurance claim form in hand but decided just to bite the bullet and get new ones for wifey and me. So I may end up with three new iPhones


You can turn them all on, strap them to your head and have an iCave Explorer's tri-beam headset.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 2, 2010)

editor said:


> You can turn them all on, strap them to your head and have an iCave Explorer's tri-beam headset.



O2 just called and they have no stock


----------



## editor (Feb 2, 2010)

Badgers said:


> O2 just called and they have no stock


You can always get the Windows Mobile version, with 20 keystrokes needed to turn on the light.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 2, 2010)

editor said:


> What phone does a Rastafarian carry?
> 
> An i and i phone.
> 
> iCoat got.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2010)

A security flaw has been found in the iphone's over-the-air policy update system. The purpose of this system is for sysadmins to push account settings out to a large number of phones in a corporate environment. It's possible to spoof the authentication and make it look like Apple is pushing a security update to your phone. 







It's just a proof-of-concept right now, so there's no immediate danger.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 3, 2010)

Gameloft Reports Nearly $25 Million in iPhone Revenue for 2009

http://www.macrumors.com/iphone/201...nearly-25-million-in-iphone-revenue-for-2009/

That's pretty decent money!!


----------



## editor (Feb 3, 2010)

So I spent £4 on CalenGoo and it's a bit meh. Better than the awful default one but still a bit meh. Once again, even bog standard basics like adding custom icons are nowhere to be found and it all feels a bit clunky. Why can't someone sort out a clean, fast, customisable calendar for the iPhone?


----------



## Badgers (Feb 3, 2010)

Colleague has jailbroken his and pimped the hell out of it!


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (Feb 3, 2010)

editor said:


> So I spent £4 on CalenGoo and it's a bit meh. Better than the awful default one but still a bit meh. Once again, even bog standard basics like adding custom icons are nowhere to be found and it all feels a bit clunky. Why can't someone sort out a clean, fast, customisable calendar for the iPhone?



I quite like the standard calendar but I use it with multiple google calendars synched to it.


----------



## editor (Feb 3, 2010)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> I quite like the standard calendar but I use it with multiple google calendars synched to it.


So do I, but it's just not that user friendly compared to what I've been used to in the past.


----------



## Gromit (Feb 3, 2010)

My thanks to whoever mentioned O2's Simplicity tarrif on here. 

Now I'm out of contract I've switched. Paying £15 a month less and getting 700 more texts (same 600 minutes and unlimited data) on a rolling one month contract. 

That'll do nicely whilst I wait for the next iPhone to come out.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 3, 2010)

I've been told by text to read the letter in my new bill carefully.

I will switch over when I get that as I was out of contract on the 17 of Jan.


----------



## paolo (Feb 3, 2010)

Gromit said:


> My thanks to whoever mentioned O2's Simplicity tarrif on here.
> 
> Now I'm out of contract I've switched. Paying £15 a month less and getting 700 more texts (same 600 minutes and unlimited data) on a rolling one month contract.
> 
> That'll do nicely whilst I wait for the next iPhone to come out.



So I'm guessing you're down to £20 ish now?

Think I'll make that switch too as soon as the 18 is up.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 3, 2010)

Gromit said:


> My thanks to whoever mentioned O2's Simplicity tarrif on here.
> 
> Now I'm out of contract I've switched. Paying £15 a month less and getting 700 more texts (same 600 minutes and unlimited data) on a rolling one month contract.
> 
> That'll do nicely whilst I wait for the next iPhone to come out.



Me, possibly.

That's exactly what I thought, too!


----------



## Gromit (Feb 3, 2010)

Tbh if my battery holds ip and the latest phone doesn't have anything that makes me want it, I might stick with what I got. 

The only thing I like about the 3G S is the compass for google maps and the faster processor. Both of which would be nice but I manage without. Oh and a better battery I think.


----------



## editor (Feb 3, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Tbh if my battery holds ip and the latest phone doesn't have anything that makes me want it, I might stick with what I got.
> 
> The only thing I like about the 3G S is the compass for google maps and the faster processor. Both of which would be nice but I manage without. Oh and a better battery I think.


The compass really doesn't make that much difference at all. Well, not enough to upgrade for.


----------



## Gromit (Feb 3, 2010)

Stops you sometimes having to walk 10 yards down a street just to find out which way you are going. Right or wrong way. 

Which is good but as you say not worth upgrading for.


----------



## editor (Feb 3, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Stops you sometimes having to walk 10 yards down a street just to find out which way you are going. Right or wrong way.
> 
> Which is good but as you say not worth upgrading for.


Less than that if you look up and see the nearest junction.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Feb 4, 2010)

a tip...(probably very old hat but it's making my life easier)

I hate searching the Address Book for people..the A-Z on the right never quite works and you seem to have to manually scroll to the top of the whole damn list to get to the search field (can that be right???)

Instead I now never go into the Address Book..I just press the home key twice and go straight to the system-wide search field and type a few letters in there to find the person I'm looking for


(of course the reason my address book is so stupidly large...the iphone/synch has put two records of every address into the iphone..grrr)


----------



## Structaural (Feb 4, 2010)

The best thing about that compass is that is rotates the map view. Does it know elevation too? ie can you point it at the sky and it knows it?


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Feb 4, 2010)

I saw someone showing off the 3gs compass to their kid..on the London Underground..how the hell does that work?


----------



## Kanda (Feb 4, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> a tip...(probably very old hat but it's making my life easier)
> 
> I hate searching the Address Book for people..the A-Z on the right never quite works and you seem to have to manually scroll to the top of the whole damn list to get to the search field (can that be right???)
> 
> ...



Home key pressed twice is a customizable feature. Mine for instance takes me straight to iTunes.

If you're on your homepage though, just sweep your finger from left to right and you'll get the search page you mention.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 4, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> I saw someone showing off the 3gs compass to their kid..on the London Underground..how the hell does that work?



Compass doesn't rely on signal. It's a compass after all...


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Feb 4, 2010)

oh..thanks..didn't know I had customized my iphone!


----------



## Structaural (Feb 4, 2010)

Structaural said:


> The best thing about that compass is that is rotates the map view. Does it know elevation too? ie can you point it at the sky and it knows it?



actually, I guess, the accelerometer would take care of that...


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

The Vincent Van Gogh freebie app is absolutely superb - well worth a download.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 4, 2010)

The official MET office app is ok but horrible colour scheme...!


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Feb 4, 2010)

I still think it is magic that a compass works underground


----------



## Structaural (Feb 4, 2010)

editor said:


> The Vincent Van Gogh freebie app is absolutely superb - well worth a download.



I downloaded that yesterday, very nice. Just a shame I get the Dutch version, which I'm still learning. Mind you I have been to the museum over 10 times, I probably know all the info.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The official MET office app is ok but horrible colour scheme...!


I like the UK maps but AccuWeather is much nicer to use.


----------



## Gromit (Feb 4, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I downloaded that yesterday, very nice. Just a shame I get the Dutch version, which I'm still learning. Mind you I have been to the museum over 10 times, I probably know all the info.



The museum features mainly work he bought rather than painted. 

Most of his work is spread around the globe with only a few pieces at the museum itself. So i'm guessing you won't know all the info.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 4, 2010)

No you're right, I only look at the pictures anyway


----------



## Structaural (Feb 4, 2010)

I've found a fix for duplicate contacts - it's usually down to having .mac account. Go to settings, mail/contacts, .mac and turn off contacts. It'll ask if you want to delete contact info, confirm, turn it on again and merge data. This should delete the dupes. Worked for me anyway. But don't sync contacts with iTunes either, just let it work over air.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 4, 2010)

Ed.. you can now view the iTunes store for apps via browser.. http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/04...s-preview-functionality-to-include-app-store/


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Ed.. you can now view the iTunes store for apps via browser.. http://www.macrumors.com/2010/02/04...s-preview-functionality-to-include-app-store/


Well I've got ruddy iTunes on my PC now so it's a bit late!


----------



## Kanda (Feb 4, 2010)

editor said:


> Well I've got ruddy iTunes on my PC now so it's a bit late!


----------



## Crispy (Feb 4, 2010)

.... I'm sure this was mentioned in revelations


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Feb 4, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I've found a fix for duplicate contacts - it's usually down to having .mac account. Go to settings, mail/contacts, .mac and turn off contacts. It'll ask if you want to delete contact info, confirm, turn it on again and merge data. This should delete the dupes. Worked for me anyway. But don't sync contacts with iTunes either, just let it work over air.



YEEEEHAAAA! (thanks Structaural!) - it worked


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2010)

Aaargh. Now fucking iTunes won't let me drag music files onto my iPhone (I've just upgraded to w7). I just get the red cursor when I try and drag files across, and all the loaded tracks are greyed out.

Phone is connected and I'm signed in.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 4, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> oh..thanks..didn't know I had customized my iphone!


You've haven't; it's just that the function of double tapping the Home button can be customised.  By default, it brings up the search function.


Piers Gibbon said:


> I still think it is magic that a compass works underground



Why would you be surprised it works under ground?  The Earth's magnetic waves come out of the ground after all.


----------



## dweller (Feb 4, 2010)

Apple orders Android mention scrubbed from App Store



> Apparently "Android" is a four-letter word in Cupertino. The flash card app Flash of Genius was a finalist in Google's Android Developer Challenge, and the developers thought that was worth mentioning in the description of the iPhone version of their app. Apple didn't agree, and sent the developers an email asking them to remove the Android line from their app description, under threat of an "interruption" in Flash of Genius' availability on the app store.



Threatening behaviour from apple app store control freaks?
Many apps in the android app store make mention of their iPhone equivalents built by the same developer. I don't see why apple have to be so aggressive.


----------



## paolo (Feb 4, 2010)

editor said:


> Aaargh. Now fucking iTunes won't let me drag music files onto my iPhone (I've just upgraded to w7). I just get the red cursor when I try and drag files across, and all the loaded tracks are greyed out.
> 
> Phone is connected and I'm signed in.



I may be way off the mark here, but I remember hearing/reading about W7 upgrades causing drag/drop problems across a range of apps.

Can't remember any more than that, but might point you in a vaguely right direction to investigate more.


----------



## belboid (Feb 4, 2010)

editor said:


> The Vincent Van Gogh freebie app is absolutely superb - well worth a download.



mmm, that's sweet, ta muchly


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 5, 2010)

There was a DJ in the pub last night using an iPhone as part of his Traktor setup, he had it on a little stand that made it appear like an iMac that had been though the wash, it looked ace


----------



## Crispy (Feb 5, 2010)

the ipad is going to have some ace music apps


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> the ipad is going to have some ace music apps



Yeah, I must admit that seeing this guys setup with the tiny phone made me think for the first time that there may be some legs to the iPad after all. The lack of USB sockets is still going to be a huge fucker though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2010)

Crispy said:
			
		

> the ipad is going to have some ace music apps



I can see DJ hero being ported...


----------



## Crispy (Feb 5, 2010)

nah, it'll be ok, there'll be dock connector audio interfaces, just you see


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:
			
		

> Yeah, I must admit that seeing this guys setup with the tiny phone made me think for the first time that there may be some legs to the iPad after all. The lack of USB sockets is still going to be a huge fucker though.



Wifi? Is the lack of USB really a big issue in the wireless age?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> nah, it'll be ok, there'll be dock connector audio interfaces, just you see



If someone can crack a multichannel interface for it (realistically you need at least 2 stereo outputs and 2 mono in) then yeah, it could get interesting.

Still shit that it would have to use a non standard connector though.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 5, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I can see DJ hero being ported...



Fuck DJ Hero, I'm thinking more proper DJ software - think along the lines of an entirely touch driven version of Traktor, or touch driven Ableton Live.

Might not actually be as useful as real knobs and stuff, but it would look a hell of a lot cooler on stage, which for a lot of performers is important...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Fuck DJ Hero, I'm thinking more proper DJ software - think along the lines of an entirely touch driven version of Traktor, or touch driven Ableton Live.
> 
> Might not actually be as useful as real knobs and stuff, but it would look a hell of a lot cooler on stage, which for a lot of performers is important...



Games are going to be a huge part of the iPad, in fact I'd go as far as to say that more games will be sold for it than DJing software.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 5, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Games are going to be a huge part of the iPad, in fact I'd go as far as to say that more games will be sold for it than DJing software.



Maybe, but personally I couldn't give a fuck about games 

Sod entertainment, I want _tools_


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Maybe, but personally I couldn't give a fuck about games
> 
> Sod entertainment, I want _tools_



What gets developed will in part determined by what sells well...

(I want entertainment not boring tools!)


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2010)

I still can't add any or delete any music files to my iPhone. I've tried syncing, restarting, changing USB leads, changing the permissions on the music folder - the lot.

Not. A. Happy. Bunny.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 5, 2010)

due to Windows 7 upgrade??


----------



## Crispy (Feb 5, 2010)

Permissions?


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2010)

Crispy;10282808]Permissions? :confused:[/QUOTE]One of the solutions  offered online was changing the permissions of the W7 folder. [QUOTE=Kanda said:


> due to Windows 7 upgrade??


Fresh install on a new hard drive.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 5, 2010)

What are the steps you're taking to put music on?
What happens when you try?


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> What are the steps you're taking to put music on?
> What happens when you try?


I'm doing what you showed me to do on Vista (drag the files over the phone icon to add, or double click to select and delete files in iTunes), but now the files are greyed out and dragging stuff over the icon makes the cursor change to one that says 'no way, Jose' - like this:


----------



## Crispy (Feb 5, 2010)

Greyed out in _explorer_? Crumbs


----------



## Kanda (Feb 5, 2010)

What about if you do it under an Admin account?


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Greyed out in _explorer_? Crumbs


Sorry no - the music files are greyed out in the iTunes window. I can't play them on my PC either.

Kanda: I'm logged in as admin.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 5, 2010)

Have you unchecked Auto sync?


----------



## Kanda (Feb 5, 2010)

Hold on.. that's the songs on the iPhone that are greyed out. what about the Music folder in Itunes at the top (not the iPhone Music folder)


----------



## editor (Feb 5, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Have you unchecked Auto sync?


I think I've cracked it. I'm trying setting it to 'manually manage music and videos'.

It's going to empty out all the music on the iPhone as a result but maybe it'll start working again after.

*presses buttons
*dreams of his old phones that didn't have any of this faffing


----------



## Kanda (Feb 5, 2010)

Yes, it's a fresh install so it doesn't know about your phone and it being synced before. You can drag them all back though. Did you backup your iTunes folder before you rebuilt? There are XML files in there that hold your playlist data etc.

It's not really faffing if you know what you're doing, it's just a learning curve you get with new software/gear.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 5, 2010)

You'd better get an iMac ed, none of this faffing. 

*runs*


----------



## Structaural (Feb 5, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm trying setting it to 'manually manage music and videos'.



Yep there's your problem, otherwise it only syncs to chosen folder in your iphone setting in iTunes..


----------



## Structaural (Feb 5, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yeah, I must admit that seeing this guys setup with the tiny phone made me think for the first time that there may be some legs to the iPad after all. The lack of USB sockets is still going to be a huge fucker though.









They sell 'em, says it for cameras so I hope it's not limited in some way. ie only works in iPhoto.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 5, 2010)

Structaural said:


> They sell 'em, says it for cameras so I hope it's not limited in some way. ie only works in iPhoto.



They do, but it's hardly an elegant solution is it?

I'm slowly coming round to the idea of the iPad, but I still hate the fact that Apple have crippled it in so many ways.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 5, 2010)

You're still thinking of it in terms of a laptop device. It's not.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 5, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm doing what you showed me to do on Vista (drag the files over the phone icon to add, or double click to select and delete files in iTunes), but now the files are greyed out and dragging stuff over the icon makes the cursor change to one that says 'no way, Jose' - like this:



Are you dragging to the phone folder or the music folder as they changed that in one of the later updates to iTunes.

I noticed it wasn't letting me drag drop like before so tried the music folder.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2010)

This is all strange to read, I've never heard of anyone having problems with iTunes!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 5, 2010)

Kanda said:


> You're still thinking of it in terms of a laptop device. It's not.



Nah, I'm thinking of it in terms of what it could have been for a specific task I have in mind.

Basically I'm just pissed off that Apple haven't built a device that's tailored exactly to me


----------



## Structaural (Feb 5, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They do, but it's hardly an elegant solution is it?
> 
> I'm slowly coming round to the idea of the iPad, but I still hate the fact that Apple have crippled it in so many ways.



I agree, mate.


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (Feb 6, 2010)

Hi,

Can anyone recommend a good iPhone for cycling? There seems so many to choose from and was wondering what peeps have been using and how good they are.

Cheers,

Rbubish


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 6, 2010)

http://www.studiosixdigital.com/iphone_measurement_micropho.html


Bollocks.

I want a fucking iPhone


----------



## Structaural (Feb 6, 2010)

get a touch, bees


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 6, 2010)

Is the connector dock on the iPad the same as the iPhone?

Coz if it is, I've just found the thing that would make me buy one


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 6, 2010)

There seem to be quite a few pro audio apps for the iPhone about. I don't really know how good or useful they are as I'm not a pro audio person, but I keep getting recommendations for things (based on the fact that I've bought some drum machine and sequencer and audio toy apps) that make me go "wtf is this about, I've never heard of this and I don't understand what it's talking about but it's got something to do with music".


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 6, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There seem to be quite a few pro audio apps for the iPhone about. I don't really know how good or useful they are as I'm not a pro audio person, but I keep getting recommendations for things (based on the fact that I've bought some drum machine and sequencer and audio toy apps) that make me go "wtf is this about, I've never heard of this and I don't understand what it's talking about but it's got something to do with music".



Apparently there's a version of Smaart coming out for it, which is bonkers quite frankly.

If it works I've finally found the thing that will make me get a Touch, or if it scales up OK, an iPad.


----------



## editor (Feb 6, 2010)

This four track recorder looks fun: http://www.sonomawireworks.com/iphone/fourtrack/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 6, 2010)

iPhone Gems: The Best Music Creation Apps


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 6, 2010)

That's 2008 as well.


----------



## editor (Feb 6, 2010)

This looks a handy tool for musos: http://www.xewton.com/apps/xms/

I was going to say it would get frustrating working with such a small screen, but then I remembered I once programmed an entire album using a little Yamaha monochrome RX5 LCD screen! (but that did have lots of real controls)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 6, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That's 2008 as well.



Oh yeah, so it is.  I've still not heard of anything to top Beatmaker yet in terms of music production...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 6, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Oh yeah, so it is.  I've still not heard of anything to top Beatmaker yet in terms of music production...



Possibly not - it gets referred to a lot in the comments I read - but I expect it's got even better since then.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 6, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Possibly not - it gets referred to a lot in the comments I read - but I expect it's got even better since then.



http://www.intua.net/products.html

That's the website for it.

The spec list is nuts for something that runs on a phone.  Not _so_ many years ago it would have been considered pretty cutting edge in a professional studio.


----------



## editor (Feb 6, 2010)

Apple have banned the word 'Android' from the AppStore!



> Apple's heavy-handed use of the rejection stamp has hit everything from podcasting programs to breast-oriented offerings. If there's one company that knows the feeling of being banned, it's Google.
> 
> Apple banned Google's Google Voice app from its App Store last year, a move so strange-looking that even the FCC questioned it. Apple, according to documents made public as part of that investigation, said the app "duplicated the core dialer functionality of the iPhone."
> 
> ...


----------



## GoneCoastal (Feb 6, 2010)

editor said:


> Apple have banned the word 'Android' from the AppStore!


It's this bit that's also  
"Apple also waved away Google's Latitude app, reportedly claiming it was too similar to the iPhone's built-in Maps application and could offer features not found in the native program."

Methinks "It does what our app does and more so we don't want it"

I'm considering a 3GS at the moment but I want to run on T-Mobile as I can't be asked to swap networks again - so a question: Is unlocking easy or not ? (I haven't had a phone I've needed to unlock so far so yep that may be a dumb question)


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2010)

It sails over the top in places, but there's a lot to think about in this blog, comparing the iPhone to IE6 (no, really, read on - it makes more sense than it sounds!):

http://www.quirksmode.org/blog/archives/2010/02/the_iphone_obse.html#more


----------



## Crispy (Feb 8, 2010)

That's a clever argument and it makes me pull a sly grin 

Of course, the outcome of the IE6 situation was that all the other browser makers upped their game, while MS floundered. If firefox hadn't been such a good product, all the talk of standards would have remained idealistic posturing. The anti-trust stuff never actually had any effect on the front line, either.

So, to avoid a future of an iphone stamping on a human head for ever, the competition have to step up. Bring the handheld computing platform that does everything the iphone does, plus the things it doesn't do, and do them well, and then developers will be forced to work cross-platform.

But for now, yes, they run to the shinies. And the shinies are nice


----------



## Kanda (Feb 8, 2010)

He does seem to ignore Apples share of the mobile app market...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 8, 2010)

....And the share of the actual mobile traffic - http://metrics.admob.com/

Just because you sell a lot of OSes, doesn't mean that you get a proportional amount of web traffic.


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2010)

Kanda said:


> He does seem to ignore Apples share of the mobile app market...


The article isn't about _apps_: it's about mobile websites.

LL: I wouldn't put a great deal of trust in AdMob's  figures. They're a good guess at best, like all of the traffic monitoring sites.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 8, 2010)

GoneCoastal said:


> It's this bit that's also
> "Apple also waved away Google's Latitude app, reportedly claiming it was too similar to the iPhone's built-in Maps application and could offer features not found in the native program."
> 
> Methinks "It does what our app does and more so we don't want it"



Google should stop serving the map tiles to the map app then, let's have a war. This anti-competitiveness does my head in. Bet the next iPhone OS has bloody Bing instead of Google...
Apple's own apps on their own platform are pretty bloody ropey, iWeb won't let you have more than one site and makes shoddy HTML, FrontRow doesn't let you set any prefs (I'd like to not skip back 2 mins when I press RW), iMovie is a buggy bastard, iCal won't sync with fuck all, Final Cut Pro is world famous for crashing every half hour or so and iPhoto tries to wear my hardrive out.
They make a good OS but their bug testing is lousy.
_But_ I can get alternatives. But not on our iPlatform. 
Oh well, as Crispy says there's not many alternatives at the moment...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 8, 2010)

editor said:


> LL: I wouldn't put a great deal of trust in AdMob's  figures. They're a good guess at best, like all of the traffic monitoring sites.


Sure, but they're probably a better indication than the number of OS sales.

He has a point, but as you say, goes a bit OTT with it. Designers shouldn't make web apps device-specific, in much the way that they shouldn't design web sites that only work with Flash, or only work with ActiveX plugins. Sure, make them work well and look good on a particular device, but it would be daft to do that to the exclusion of other users.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 8, 2010)

Just got my upgrade. All fine and super quick VS the 2G I had before. Liking it but just noticed that it arrived with a black base case/protector on it. It seems fine but have I been dumped with a refurb, or is this normal?


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2010)

Pretty sure the iPhone doesn't come with a free case. I didn't get one.


----------



## belboid (Feb 8, 2010)

me neither, but they did recently 'upgrade' the cover to allow greater dropping on the floor ability


----------



## Structaural (Feb 8, 2010)

Dark Nebula is a cool little game, reminds me of Bitmap Bros stuff from the 80s. Only 79c


----------



## Badgers (Feb 8, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> Pretty sure the iPhone doesn't come with a free case. I didn't get one.



This was on the handset and is a bit cracked on the corners. Better call O2 and mention it at least I guess. Phone is working great and screen is fine. Maybe I should just consider a bonus as under warranty plus insured.


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (Feb 8, 2010)

He doesn't remember me giving him the case for his phone on Sat night lol


----------



## paolo (Feb 9, 2010)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> He doesn't remember me giving him the case for his phone on Sat night lol


----------



## sim667 (Feb 9, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Google should stop serving the map tiles to the map app then, let's have a war. This anti-competitiveness does my head in. Bet the next iPhone OS has bloody Bing instead of Google...
> Apple's own apps on their own platform are pretty bloody ropey, iWeb won't let you have more than one site and makes shoddy HTML, FrontRow doesn't let you set any prefs (I'd like to not skip back 2 mins when I press RW), iMovie is a buggy bastard, iCal won't sync with fuck all, *Final Cut Pro is world famous for crashing every half hour or so* and iPhoto tries to wear my hardrive out.
> They make a good OS but their bug testing is lousy.
> _But_ I can get alternatives. But not on our iPlatform.
> Oh well, as Crispy says there's not many alternatives at the moment...



Final cut pro isnt made by apple

I dont know what the issue is with the rest, I dont have problems, but then I dont use iWeb or Frontrow


----------



## Crispy (Feb 9, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Final cut pro isnt made by apple



yes it is


----------



## Structaural (Feb 9, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Final cut pro isnt made by apple
> 
> I dont know what the issue is with the rest, I dont have problems, but then I dont use iWeb or Frontrow



How nice for you, run along now, Pointless Percy. 

Yes it is.

I think I pointed out my _issues_ in the post you're referencing. 

Though of course the main point of my post was to point out that Apple's software isn't always the best and the lack of competitor's on the iPhone/iPhone means us users won't necessarily get the best stuff, though we'll have access to much pointlessness.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 9, 2010)

Oh yeah so it is

Structaural, nice to see you resort to silly school name calling because 'Mon dieu, I thought something was made by a different company'

What software are you comparing the apple stuff too though, personally I've not come across any perfect software.

I've not had issues with iMovie or iCal, and i use both daily.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 9, 2010)

Picasa pisses all over iphoto


----------



## sim667 (Feb 9, 2010)

Structaural said:


> How nice for you, run along now, Pointless Percy.
> 
> Yes it is.
> 
> ...



I only use iphoto for my phone pics

Im still trying to decide what workflow program to use for my proper pics, ive got a moody copy of aperture atm, i think its pretty good so far.


----------



## fen_boy (Feb 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Picasa pisses all over iphoto



Yes, this is true.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 9, 2010)

and the OSX 'version' is just the windows one in a WINE wrapper


----------



## Crispy (Feb 9, 2010)

Here's some flame-fodder







WTF. Guys, really, if this is supposed to be competing with the iphone, then give up and go home please


----------



## editor (Feb 9, 2010)

LOL! It's like the designer was on coke and wanted to fit in as much as possible.

The Palm Pre's OS is way superior to the iPhone's but without Apple's vast advertising and marketing clout, it's always going to play second fiddle.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 9, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Oh yeah so it is
> 
> Structaural, nice to see you resort to silly school name calling because 'Mon dieu, I thought something was made by a different company'
> 
> ...



I didn't call you names (and I take it back, bad day... bad year actually) because you were wrong about FCP but because you essentially said 'it works fine on mine', great. Not my point, if it _didn't_ or you wanted extra features not found in Apple's simplistic 'free' apps, you could use something else – but you can't on the closed and controlled Apple platforms. 

Want to mark emails as 'read/unread'? tough; want to use Firefox or Opera? tough; like to use a decent calendar app that syncs with iCal? tough; decent EQ on your MP3 player? fuckoff, etc...

The Apple Assumption being, you wouldn't want to use anything else, 'cos our shit's so shiny. I can understand that to a certain extent on a phone, but now it's filtering down into iPad's and even desktops (there's a concerted effort to get VLC off the mac platform by Apple for instance and every single update to safari or os x destroys SmartScroll's workability).

Most software developers have a connection with the users of their products, bug fixes, forums and blogs to discuss issues and upgrades and maybe new features, the ability, even, to email directly the writer of the software. Apple, over the last few years do not do that. Their forums are bereft of anyone from Apple, big threads about big issues/bugs mysteriously disappear (Even Adobe aren't that bad). They're offering hush money to 27" iMac users with never ending flicker problems at the moment...

They sell the kit like toasters and they sell their software with the same attitude, but people are far more emotionally and 'informationally' (sorry can't think of a better word ATM  connected to their laptops/iPhones/macs than they are their washing machines so it doesn't necessarily translate.
I dunno, as a loooong time Apple user it's interesting and irritating to watch Apple turn into the very thing they based their early marketing on competing against. The new slew of uncritical fanbois make it easy for them creating a constant pepsi/coca-cola, arsenal/spurs type barrage on any forum you care to mention,
'It just works', but what if it doesn't? Please don't mention it.

I've got far more important things to worry about of course, but at least moaning about Apple takes my mind of them...


----------



## hendo (Feb 9, 2010)

That's the best post I've ever seen about Apple. They've had a lot of big breakthroughs but nobody has a monopoly on wisdom.


----------



## hendo (Feb 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Picasa pisses all over iphoto



But it cannot create separate albums on your iphone.


----------



## paolo (Feb 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Here's some flame-fodder
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What on earth _is_ that?

Not WM7 surely?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 9, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> What on earth _is_ that?
> 
> Not WM7 surely?


It's Samsung's Omnia, on WM6.5



> there's a concerted effort to get VLC off the mac platform by Apple



ORLY?


----------



## Structaural (Feb 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It's Samsung's Omnia, on WM6.5
> 
> 
> 
> ORLY?



That may have been slightly hyperbolic (me?) but there was a post last week from the VLC devs on the VideoLAN website that said:

"Apple doesn't want us on the Mac platform and is blocking us a lot, and refuses to explain why"

But, they then clarified that this week. That they meant it wasn't mentioned by Apple on their downloads website and that was it (or is it), but I hadn't read that until now:
link

Anyway, Apple certainly don't seem to have a particularly healthy attitude to competition, regardless. No-one else gets the backgrounding or low-level access to the iWhatever. And Jobs attitude towards Google seems, well, excessive.


----------



## editor (Feb 9, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I didn't call you names (and I take it back, bad day... bad year actually) because you were wrong about FCP but because you essentially said 'it works fine on mine', great. Not my point, if it _didn't_ or you wanted extra features not found in Apple's simplistic 'free' apps, you could use something else – but you can't on the closed and controlled Apple platforms.
> 
> Want to mark emails as 'read/unread'? tough; want to use Firefox or Opera? tough; like to use a decent calendar app that syncs with iCal? tough; decent EQ on your MP3 player? fuckoff, etc......


Good post.


----------



## grit (Feb 9, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Want to mark emails as 'read/unread'? tough; want to use Firefox or Opera? tough; like to use a decent calendar app that syncs with iCal? tough; decent EQ on your MP3 player? fuckoff, etc...



Huh you saying you cant use Firefox and Opera on a mac


----------



## editor (Feb 9, 2010)

grit said:


> Huh you saying you cant use Firefox and Opera on a mac


I think he means on the iPhone where Herr Jobs has made all competing browsers _verboten_. Luckily, the Safari browser is excellent, but it would be good to have the choice.

However, the calendar and email apps on the iPhone are both pretty shitty, but unless developers devise long winded ways to circumvent Apple's  restrictions, that's all us users are allowed.


----------



## grit (Feb 10, 2010)

editor said:


> I think he means on the iPhone where Herr Jobs has made all competing browsers _verboten_. Luckily, the Safari browser is excellent, but it would be good to have the choice.
> 
> However, the calendar and email apps on the iPhone are both pretty shitty, but unless developers devise long winded ways to circumvent Apple's  restrictions, that's all us users are allowed.



Opera seem to be pretty confident they are going to get it onto the iphone.

http://www.opera.com/press/releases/2010/02/10/


----------



## Crispy (Feb 10, 2010)

Wow, good luck to them!


----------



## editor (Feb 10, 2010)

Gotta admire the plucky guys at Opera. I hope the cheeky plan succeeds.

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/355444/opera-to-test-apples-resolve-with-iphone-browser


----------



## Crispy (Feb 10, 2010)

> Apple's stance seems to have softened in recent months, with a smattering of minor rival browsers appearing in the App Store



Huh, didn't realise that. Are they really browsers though, or just other wrappers of the built-in webkit engine?


----------



## grit (Feb 10, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Huh, didn't realise that. Are they really browsers though, or just other wrappers of the built-in webkit engine?



Thats a weird distinction to make


----------



## Crispy (Feb 10, 2010)

grit said:


> Thats a weird distinction to make


Any app can call webkit, which is already present on every iphone, to render a page. Opera will be doing all the heavy lifting itself. Quite a distinction, really.


----------



## grit (Feb 10, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Any app can call webkit, which is already present on every iphone, to render a page. Opera will be doing all the heavy lifting itself. Quite a distinction, really.



Chrome,Safari and the Pre browser are all based on webkit for example so by that distinction you seem to be saying they shouldn't be considered separate browsers


----------



## Crispy (Feb 10, 2010)

grit said:


> Chrome,Safari and the Pre browser are all based on webkit for example so by that distinction you seem to be saying they shouldn't be considered separate browsers


True, but the difference on the iphone is important. _calling_ webkit from within another app in order to display web content = fine, happens all the time. *building* webkit (a version of the developer's choosing) into an app and bypassing the native iphone control altogether = ???? - we just don't know how the itunes store would approve of such a thing, which is important.


----------



## grit (Feb 10, 2010)

Crispy said:


> True, but the difference on the iphone is important. _calling_ webkit from within another app in order to display web content = fine, happens all the time. *building* webkit (a version of the developer's choosing) into an app and bypassing the native iphone control altogether = ???? - we just don't know how the itunes store would approve of such a thing, which is important.



Calling something != wrapper.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 10, 2010)

oh whatever. I'll reframe the question.

so there are loads of browsers in the app store are they? are they actually any good, or are they just safari re-skins with no real extra features?


----------



## editor (Feb 10, 2010)

They're all based on webkit and I don't think any are particularly any good.



> But now, there are more than half-a-dozen browsers available from the App Store from companies other than Apple. This sudden plethora of new browsers results from Apple’s decision to allow third-party browsers in the App Store—*as long as they’re based on WebKit,* Apple’s open source browser engine.


http://www.macworld.com/appguide/article.html?article=138409


----------



## magneze (Feb 10, 2010)

grit said:


> Calling something != wrapper.


I'd say that's a pretty valid description of a wrapper tbh.


----------



## grit (Feb 10, 2010)

magneze said:


> I'd say that's a pretty valid description of a wrapper tbh.



So calling a method is the same as writing a wrapper for it


----------



## elbows (Feb 10, 2010)

Im not sure Opera are really confident that Apple will approve their browser for the iphone. Im sure the plan, as with quite a few other companies in the past, is to make a very loud noise if it isnt approved, and either way they will get publicity for themselves and for the big issues, which is fair enough.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 10, 2010)

editor said:


> They're all based on webkit and I don't think any are particularly any good.
> 
> 
> http://www.macworld.com/appguide/article.html?article=138409





> Hot Browser’s claim to fame is that whenever you shake your iPhone, it will load a “random yet currently very popular web site.”


How very useful.



Opera mini is a very good application (especially in its latest version which I think is still beta for most platforms at the moment). Probably better than iPeople deserve really.


----------



## Pie 1 (Feb 10, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Probably better than iPeople deserve really.



Oh, do one. You tedious gimp.


----------



## editor (Feb 10, 2010)

elbows said:


> Im not sure Opera are really confident that Apple will approve their browser for the iphone. Im sure the plan, as with quite a few other companies in the past, is to make a very loud noise if it isnt approved, and either way they will get publicity for themselves and for the big issues, which is fair enough.


It's a worthy fight, IMO.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 10, 2010)

editor said:


> It's a worthy fight, IMO.



Why is it that Apple don't like competition against applications that they provide for free anyway?

I can see why they would want to block it if the regular browser was something that people paid for as an extra...but it's not. If anything, the availability of Opera Mini can only make the iphone (which people do pay for - obviously) more attractive.

Or are there advertising revenue streams and stuff that they gain from people using the Apple browser? (I only recently discovered that this is the case with Opera et al and that this is why Opera Mobile has recently become a free application).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 10, 2010)

elbows said:


> Im not sure Opera are really confident that Apple will approve their browser for the iphone. Im sure the plan, as with quite a few other companies in the past, is to make a very loud noise if it isnt approved, and either way they will get publicity for themselves and for the big issues, which is fair enough.



Looks like a Palm style cause a stink for free publicity to me.


----------



## editor (Feb 10, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Why is it that Apple don't like competition  against applications that they provide for free anyway?


It's all about *control*.


Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like a Palm style cause a stink for free publicity to me.


That's not really fair. Opera make mobile software yet they're being intentionally kept off the fastest growing mobile platform for rather dubious reasons.

It's certainly not in the consumer's interest to have alternative software blocked.


----------



## magneze (Feb 10, 2010)

grit said:


> So calling a method is the same as writing a wrapper for it


When writing a wrapper, a large part of the work could be to call methods in the API being wrapped.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 10, 2010)

On a less cool note, anyone got their Tesco clubcard on their iPhone yet?


----------



## Sunray (Feb 10, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Why is it that Apple don't like competition against applications that they provide for free anyway?
> 
> I can see why they would want to block it if the regular browser was something that people paid for as an extra...but it's not. If anything, the availability of Opera Mini can only make the iphone (which people do pay for - obviously) more attractive.
> 
> Or are there advertising revenue streams and stuff that they gain from people using the Apple browser? (I only recently discovered that this is the case with Opera et al and that this is why Opera Mobile has recently become a free application).



I think I mentioned this before, they don't want to loose control of the apps they advertise to sell the iPhone.  They might be crap but they cant advertise the product to sell it showing the calender when the #1 calendar application isn't their own creation.  If they let someone do a better one, the Apple one would be history as its pretty crap.  

Clearly when they show it in the ad it will look amazing and get someone down the shop post haste.  

Once they allow something else in there to be #1 it will take them lots of money and lots of investment to take back that crown.  Don't let anyone in there and you save a lot of cash and the ad's continue to make sense no matter when they are shown.

When they start to reach saturation for iPhones, they will relax this restriction.  Don't expect that to be soon.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 10, 2010)

Apple get revenue from Google for every search done using the search box in Safari or Mobile Safari. That's why Safari pops up a box suggesting that you don't need to bookmark Google Search if you try to, and why they don't have alternative search engine options. Control of the browser keeps the cash from Google rolling in. 

I'm sure that revenue isn't a hill of beans for Apple, but a few million dollars will probably help them feel better about discouraging other browsers on the iPhone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 10, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> It's all about control.
> 
> 
> > Looks like a Palm style cause a stink for free publicity to me.
> ...



It may not be fair but it wouldn't surprise me if it was the case. Apple are an easy target to get cheap publicity off the back of...


----------



## editor (Feb 10, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apple are an easy target to get cheap publicity off the back of...


Opera aren't doing this for 'cheap publicity' IMO - they're doing it because they're facing ridiculous restrictions imposed by Apple which could seriously impact their company's future.

If Apple weren't being so fucking stupid and banning all browsers off their smartphones, there'd be no publicity about it in the first place.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 10, 2010)

Nah don't buy it, they know full well what the response will be, this is pr.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 11, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I think I mentioned this before, they don't want to loose control of the apps they advertise to sell the iPhone.  They might be crap but they cant advertise the product to sell it showing the calender when the #1 calendar application isn't their own creation.  If they let someone do a better one, the Apple one would be history as its pretty crap.
> 
> Clearly when they show it in the ad it will look amazing and get someone down the shop post haste.
> 
> ...



Not sure I really buy this logic - it seems to me that one of the big selling points of the iphone (and one pushed heavily by Apple) is the wide range of third party software written for it and (critically) moderated by and made accessible by Apple.

They don't need to be no.1 at writing applications - they just have to maintain a well controlled environment for others to produce software within, and an easy way for their consumers to get at it without hassle.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 11, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> Apple get revenue from Google for every search done using the search box in Safari or Mobile Safari. That's why Safari pops up a box suggesting that you don't need to bookmark Google Search if you try to, and why they don't have alternative search engine options. Control of the browser keeps the cash from Google rolling in.
> 
> I'm sure that revenue isn't a hill of beans for Apple, but a few million dollars will probably help them feel better about discouraging other browsers on the iPhone.



That seems a more convincing reason to me.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 11, 2010)

Which to me is reminisent of the old Public Domain software you used to get on Atari and Amiga etc etc.. without the hassle...


----------



## teuchter (Feb 11, 2010)

editor said:


> It's certainly not in the consumer's interest to have alternative software blocked.



I reckon if Apple want to do business their way, then fair enough. They don't have a monopoly of the phone market in any way whatsoever. If people want the alternative software they can hack their phones at their own risk.

It's a bit like people moaning about Ryanair really - if you don't like it, don't buy it. It's not like they are selling themselves as an open platform and then suddenly changing their tune once you've handed them the cash.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 12, 2010)

Aaaaaah, interesting 

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/11/opera_and_iphone/



> the Jesus Phone isn't a place where you can run a serious Safari competitor. There's no Opera, Firefox, Chrome, or, well, Internet Explorer. Unless they use Apple's APIs or interpreters, third-party iPhone applications are barred from executing their own code .
> 
> "An Application may not itself install or launch other executable code by any means, including without limitation through the use of a plug-in architecture, calling other frameworks, other APIs or otherwise," reads the terms and conditions attached to Apple's iPhone SDK. "No interpreted code may be downloaded and used in an Application except for code that is interpreted and run by Apple’s Published APIs and built in interpreter(s)."



HTML and javascript are interpreted code. However:



> Opera Mini is normally a Java application. But the iPhone version runs natively - and it will not interpret code. Like existing incarnations of Opera Mini, the iPhone version taps into proxy servers that intercept and compress webpages before sending them down to the client. This speeds download times - making the browser ideal for slower web connections - but it also means that Mini doesn't run its own webcode.



So Opera mini does not break any of the public approval rules. By displaying Mini before approval submission, they hope to force apple's hand. Nice move


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 12, 2010)

teuchter said:


> That seems a more convincing reason to me.


I read an article yesterday suggesting that the revenue from Google was in the region of $100 million.

I'd probably lock down my platform for that kind of dosh!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 12, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> I read an article yesterday suggesting that the revenue from Google was in the region of $100 million.



http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/02/12/google_payment_to_apple/


----------



## Badgers (Feb 12, 2010)

Star Wars: The Force Unleashed game is 59p at the moment


----------



## editor (Feb 15, 2010)

Bosh! Apple disable the Apple ID of hackers:



> No doubt Apple is leery of having its iPhone OS so easily and frequently hacked (its notoriously weak security being one of the many reasons the iPhone has yet to really take off in the corporate world), but Cupertino’s latest security precaution isn’t likely to win any favor. Just days after a scrappy young iPhone hacked discovered an unlock exploit for OS 3.1.3 baseband 05.12.01, Sherif Hashim received an ominous message on his iPhone after attempting to log into iTunes: “This Apple ID has been disabled for security reasons.”
> 
> Proving that this is not an isolated incident, fellow hacker iH8sn0w responded to Hashim to let him know the very same thing happened to him after he released an exploit known as XEMN. Perhaps most puzzlingly, however, is the fact that Hasim’s exploit was never publicly released having only been given to the iPhone Dev-Team who plan to incorporate it into their next release.
> 
> ...


Jailbreakers beware?


----------



## Gromit (Feb 16, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Star Wars: The Force Unleashed game is 59p at the moment



59p is about all it's worth. I completed it in very little time at all. Say 5 hours of gameplay.  Had I paid when it first came out I'd have been well pissed.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 18, 2010)

Apple have doubled the iPhone download cap on 3G networks.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/02/iphone-download-cap/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 18, 2010)

Good news that, too often app updates are just over the 10mb limit...


----------



## Pie 1 (Feb 19, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Good news that, too often app updates are just over the 10mb limit...



As are a lot of podcasts, 'specially BBC radio ones.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 19, 2010)

Pie 1 said:
			
		

> As are a lot of podcasts, 'specially BBC radio ones.



Aye, too true.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 19, 2010)

Why does Apple care what size the downloads are? I'd have thought it would be the network operators who'd want to restrict it.


----------



## elbows (Feb 22, 2010)

Well now Apple have decided they dont like sexy-related apps and have removed around 5000 applications from the store in recent days!


----------



## editor (Feb 22, 2010)

elbows said:


> Well now Apple have decided they dont like sexy-related apps and have removed around 5000 applications from the store in recent days!


----------



## elbows (Feb 23, 2010)

Even worse is that they have left the Playboy & Sports Illustrated Swimsuit apps alone because they are ' a well-known company with previously published material available broadly in a well-accepted format'.

Bring on the porn webapps for the ipad, make Apple control freaks mad.


----------



## g force (Feb 23, 2010)

So iPhone peoples....which network you on? 02 is a no go due to no coverage in my flat, so it's between Orange and Vodafone (already on Voda)...Orange wants £189 for a 3Gs, Voda £149, both for £30 a month, 18-moth plan, tho the Voda plan has more talk mins and 1GB data plus unlimited WiFi rather than Orange's 750MB.

What I need to know, and which neither website will tell me....I assume app downloads have to be included in this so i'd basically be left with little or now allowance if I want some on the phone? Can any Voda users confirm that's the case?


----------



## zenie (Feb 23, 2010)

The gb of data is only relevant for 3g immic. So any downloads done over wi-fi (which you'll want to be using anyway) don't count. Is that right?  

I don't get why Orange is more expensive than Vodafone??


----------



## belboid (Feb 23, 2010)

they want you to pay for the phone AND take out a contract??  

If you download apps via itunes on your computer you wont be using that much bandwidth either.

And you can still run 'orange webservices' even after you've sued up your limit with Orange, its _implied_ that that would include using official apps that need the net too, but that isnt very clear.

(and, as with the others, any wifi net use is totally limitless)


----------



## zenie (Feb 23, 2010)

Yeh it's a pisstake if you want anything above 8GB and less than 75 quid a month (for the rest of your  life it seems like with the length of contracts thesedays ) you have to pay.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 23, 2010)

How come they don't do unlimited data like O2?


----------



## editor (Feb 23, 2010)

o2 may be "unlimited" but it's also the worst network I've been with.


----------



## belboid (Feb 23, 2010)

they told me its unlimited data, but could have just meant via wifi


----------



## Kanda (Feb 23, 2010)

editor said:


> o2 may be "unlimited" but it's also the worst network I've been with.



Never had a problem with it. (and I manage over 30 phones on various networks)


----------



## Badgers (Feb 23, 2010)

editor said:


> o2 may be "unlimited" but it's also the worst network I've been with.



Still having issues then? 
My 'dropped calls' have pretty much stopped totally now. 
Never had any other problems over the many years with O2 till now.


----------



## g force (Feb 23, 2010)

As I said zero 02 coverage in my flat in SW16, none at my folks place in Brum, none in my brother's flat, 1 bar at the in-laws in Hastings, so it's a total no-go. Been on Voda for years and my work BB gets a signal of 3 bars nearly everywhere.

looks like Voda is the winner and they offered me the handset for 50 quid as a "valued long-term customer", Orange said it was £189 for 16GB 3GS and that "was the final price".


----------



## editor (Feb 24, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Never had a problem with it. (and I manage over 30 phones on various networks)


You've clearly been very fortunate because the problems with o2's coverage have been well documented. 

Things have got better in the last month, but it's still not unusual for me to be unable to access the web for some time in central London. It's way worse than T Mobile's coverage was.

Elsewhere, Apple's highly selective moralistic censorship continue to piss off developers.  





> …This time, Apple’s stance is indefensible. You either sell apps with sexual content or you don’t – it’s not acceptable to allow high-profile publishers to provide ‘women in swimsuit’ apps and then ban shop-based apps selling actual swimsuits.”
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-adult-app-censorship-apples-unconvincing-explanation/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2010)

Reception wise in the last month O2 has shot up to near excellent. I regularly get 3G coverage that's stable and fast pretty much everywhere. Even the edge coverage is pretty stable too. Very happy with the improvement.


----------



## g force (Feb 24, 2010)

It's probably early iphone adopters going to Voda and Orange


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 24, 2010)

g force said:


> It's probably early iphone adopters going to Voda and Orange



I would... but their deals, compared to what I'm on now, are _shit_.

Never had a network problem here on o2 in nearly 2 years.


----------



## g force (Feb 24, 2010)

Really? I got 18 mth contract on a 32GB 3GS, 3k mins, 600 texts, unlimited data for £30 a month. Handset cost me £49 (should be £89 but as Voda customer they could offer me a better deal).

02 may have a better deal but they were never in the running for me. Thats said 02 users I do know have never had the same issues as me, must just be my flat and their mast position that throws everything out.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Feb 24, 2010)

g force said:


> Really? I got 18 mth contract on a 32GB 3GS, 3k mins, 600 texts, unlimited data for £30 a month. Handset cost me £49 (should be £89 but as Voda customer they could offer me a better deal).
> 
> 02 may have a better deal but they were never in the running for me. Thats said 02 users I do know have never had the same issues as me, must just be my flat and their mast position that throws everything out.



That's the best deal I've ever seen.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Feb 24, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Reception wise in the last month O2 has shot up to near excellent. I regularly get 3G coverage that's stable and fast pretty much everywhere. Even the edge coverage is pretty stable too. Very happy with the improvement.



Yeah, agreed. Even in London Bridge it's good now. Improved as far out as SE25 as well.


----------



## Badgers (Feb 24, 2010)

Unlimited texts anyone? 

Interesting


----------



## Sunray (Feb 24, 2010)

editor said:


> You've clearly been very fortunate because the problems with o2's coverage have been well documented.
> 
> Things have got better in the last month, but it's still not unusual for me to be unable to access the web for some time in central London. It's way worse than T Mobile's coverage was.
> 
> Elsewhere, Apple's highly selective moralistic censorship continue to piss off developers.



That does make me ask why they have gone to the trouble of creating a swim wear selling application for the iPhone?

Surely all that would need is a website that is iPhone friendly?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Unlimited texts anyone?
> 
> Interesting



Figured something like this might arise, O2 need to defend their position as an iPhone provider...


----------



## Badgers (Feb 24, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Figured something like this might arise, O2 need to defend their position as an iPhone provider...



Slight pain if you (I mean me when I say you) have paid for unlimited texts already. No doubt with a bit of shouting I can get this gifted back though


----------



## editor (Feb 24, 2010)

Sunray said:


> That does make me ask why they have gone to the trouble of creating a swim wear selling application for the iPhone?
> 
> Surely all that would need is a website that is iPhone friendly?


The same reason I guess that all the other developers choose to make apps to present their content, and the same reason that punters choose to download them. 

 The point is that the company clearly thought that it would be beneficial for them to have an app to sell their goods, so they spent time and money creating it, correctly sent it off to Apple for consideration, got it approved and then - at a stroke - had it pulled due to Apple's sudden bout of Puritanism.

The developers followed Apple's rules but got booted off (while Apple's corporate mates get to keep their equally saucy apps in the store) and some of them have lost a lot of money as a result of this arbitrary censorship. 

It's a hugely hypocritical stance and it stinks, imo.


----------



## zenie (Feb 24, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Unlimited texts anyone?
> 
> Interesting


 
Intersting...I'll wait a bit longer still then if they're changing their price plans.

Really fucked of with o2 today. And yeh they do drop calls on iphones a lot IME


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 24, 2010)

g force said:


> Really? I got 18 mth contract on a 32GB 3GS, 3k mins, 600 texts, unlimited data for £30 a month. Handset cost me £49 (should be £89 but as Voda customer they could offer me a better deal).
> 
> 02 may have a better deal but they were never in the running for me. Thats said 02 users I do know have never had the same issues as me, must just be my flat and their mast position that throws everything out.



My current o2 is 1200 mins, 600 texts, unlimited data for £12. Course, that's a post-contract contract, not something they offer to new customers... but then, nor do Orange or Voda. 

I'm not upgrading the handset, this one is fine and I'm buggered if I'm paying £100 odd and an extra £18 per month for a compass. I'll wait for the next gen.


----------



## pboi (Feb 24, 2010)

Contract is up in April, worth waiting for 4G in June you experts reckon?


----------



## Gromit (Feb 24, 2010)

pboi said:


> Contract is up in April, worth waiting for 4G in June you experts reckon?


 
Its what I'm doing. Going to be gutted if one doesn't appear.


----------



## pboi (Feb 24, 2010)

yeh me too! Not sure I can wait much longer than 3 months :/


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 24, 2010)

I wouldn't.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Feb 24, 2010)

editor said:


> You've clearly been very fortunate because the problems with o2's coverage have been well documented.
> 
> Things have got better in the last month, but *it's still not unusual for me to be unable to access the web for some time in central London.* It's way worse than T Mobile's coverage was.


I've just switched from O2 to Orange because of this. I'll admit that I've been regretting that decision cos I've had a nightmare start with them and they only managed to get everything sorted out yesterday after almost 3 weeks   but the web access now is a huge impovement on O2. I was never able to get connected at home with O2 (Tufnell Park area) but I can now. However I always used to get good internet up at my mum's in Derby with O2, which I'll be able to compare this weekend.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I wouldn't.



Why not?


----------



## pboi (Feb 24, 2010)

didnt they put up 200 more masts to improve coverage


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2010)

pboi said:


> didnt they put up 200 more masts to improve coverage



O2? Not sure I read something about a 30 million investment rolled out end of last year some time ago...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Feb 24, 2010)

I'd be surprised if there was anything more than an OS upgrade in June. Handset upgrade very unlikely. But then I'm no Mac rumour expert.


----------



## pboi (Feb 24, 2010)

thought the whole point of the 4g rumours was it was new hardware to ward off the smartphone pack


----------



## ChrisFilter (Feb 24, 2010)

pboi said:


> thought the whole point of the 4g rumours was it was new hardware to ward off the smartphone pack



The iPhone's hardware has never been anything special from a specs point of view.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 24, 2010)

There's this

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/01/31...-google-adobe-next-iphone-2010-macs-and-more/

which isn't much


----------



## pboi (Feb 24, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> The iPhone's hardware has never been anything special from a specs point of view.



not my point.


----------



## editor (Feb 24, 2010)

I reckon the 4G will have a flash, better camera and maybe a pointless front facing camera for those video calls that you're never going to make. Maybe an OLED screen to help fix the dreadful battery life, too. No QWERTY. No flash support. No FM radio. No SD card slot.

The iPhone is really all about the apps these days. There's loads of better spec'd phones. but the iPhone's eco-system can't  be beat and that's what will always give it the edge over rivals, even if the phone's hardware falls short of its rivals.


----------



## g force (Feb 24, 2010)

If it does get upgraded current rumour mill suggest front facing camera and upgraded MP on camera. Not worth holding out for IMO.


----------



## Gromit (Feb 24, 2010)

Betamax vrs VHS.

If it delivers entertaining content and lots of it who cares about the quality of the spec.


----------



## pboi (Feb 24, 2010)

any improved battery life is all i care about


----------



## elbows (Feb 24, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'd be surprised if there was anything more than an OS upgrade in June. Handset upgrade very unlikely. But then I'm no Mac rumour expert.



Its not a cert that hardware will be upgraded but not sure what makes you think its very unlikely either.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:
			
		

> I'd be surprised if there was anything more than an OS upgrade in June. Handset upgrade very unlikely. But then I'm no Mac rumour expert.



I think it will be small stuff like better camera and battery life...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2010)

pboi said:
			
		

> any improved battery life is all i care about



This is a big one for me too...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 24, 2010)

If there's a hardware upgrade at all, it will just have more memory, maybe a better camera, maybe better battery life. There might not be an upgrade at all. And tbh unless there's actually something specific that's been guaranteed, I don't tend to wait if I want a gadget.

There won't be any serious hardware changes because that would lock out older iPhone owners and that's not in Apple's interests. They've been careful not to lock out older users with each update so far and they'll be even more careful now that the iPhone is not their "in development" product, and they have a huge user base to support.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2010)

I reckon there will be hardware changes as has happened for the last two years...


----------



## Kanda (Feb 24, 2010)

Yup. An a+ upgrade isn't gonna be just software. Especially now their chip manufacturing is well under way... 

There's loads of apps out there that require the latest version of hardware (3g, 3gs)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 24, 2010)

We'll see.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 24, 2010)

They will give it the same processor as the terribly named iPad.  They spent all that dosh on the company, so why not use it. Expect it to go a lot faster like the iPad and use less power.  I saw the 3GS as barely an upgrade, so its 2 years in the making.

OLED display would be nice for their improved battery life, but out door performance of OLED is terrible, I can't see them replacing the current LCD which is pretty decent.

1/2 decent camera would be nice.  Perhaps keep the 3G,3GS and the, err well the 4G would be bad unless it had LTE, which I can't see it having, so what can they call it? The 3GX ? I've heard that before, its a car and a game and other stuff.

Hmm


----------



## CJohn (Feb 24, 2010)

...I'm sure this has been mentioned, but is multitasking going to be a potential upgrade for the 4g? 

Tbh I think it's definitely needed and has been one of the reasons I'd been holding out for the new htc handsets; the desire looks awesome. In the interim I've got my sisters old 3g and a simplicity contract-def impressed so far but just wish I could, for instance, be using this (tappatalk) and spotify at the same time.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2010)

No idea, multitasking is low down on my list compared to better battery...


----------



## CJohn (Feb 25, 2010)

Really? Be top of mine. Tho I'd agree the battery life is pretty poor. And I guess it would only get worse if you had the former without the latter.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 25, 2010)

CJohn said:


> ...I'm sure this has been mentioned, but is multitasking going to be a potential upgrade for the 4g?



no

it isn't hardware and they won't do it anyway, not for ages if ever


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2010)

Interesting take on the problems with o2's connectivity:


> Even though AT&T's already committed both carrier and backhaul upgrades in an effort to buck the butt-of-the-joke trend it's been experiencing for the last couple years, there's some evidence that it's a recent trend in the way phone radios operate -- not a lack of overall capacity -- that should shoulder at least some of the blame for the issues.
> 
> An O2 staffer (O2 carries the iPhone and has coincidentally experienced many of the same growing pains AT&T has in recent months) that reached out to Ars Technica says that Apple's baby was one of the first widely popular phones to immediately drop data connections as soon as transfers were complete and re-establish them only when needed; that tactic saves battery power, but can overwhelm cell sites pretty easily if they're not configured to handle it -- even if there's plenty of spectrum and backhaul available. Other handsets now employ the same strategy, compounding the problem. This seems like an awfully odd thing to miss during carrier testing, but who knows -- we wouldn't put it past anyone to gladhand the iPhone through the toughest parts of the gauntlet.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/24/...io-design-partly-to-blame-for-atandt-o2-netw/


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Feb 25, 2010)

It makes sense, persistent connections are good as they reduce overhead. But that's more or less an externality for handset designers.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 25, 2010)

CJohn said:
			
		

> Really? Be top of mine. Tho I'd agree the battery life is pretty poor. And I guess it would only get worse if you had the former without the latter.



I can easily live without it but the battery is a big practicsl issue for me where as multitasking just isn't.


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2010)

I've just written an unfeasibly big article about all speculation this for Wirefresh - it'll be up 930am in the morning if anyone's interested.


----------



## pboi (Feb 25, 2010)

linkeh


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2010)

Da dah! 

It's a bit sarky, but here it is: 
iPhone 4G: the real inside story of Apple’s next-gen smartphone
http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-4g-the-real-inside-story-of-apples-next-gen-smartphone/


----------



## MightyAphrodite (Feb 25, 2010)

"No QWERTY, No Cry"


----------



## CJohn (Feb 25, 2010)

Re o2 connectivity; My 3g coverage was fine in Belfast. I'm in Liverpool at the mo and it keeps dropping. Will be in London on fri so will be interesting to see how it fares there. 

Sounds like I should give up hope for multitasking then - I think it would make a big difference tho, so it's a shame.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 25, 2010)

But for all their faults O2 are the only network still with no upper limit on their 'fair use' policy. So you may be able to get better signal on Vodafone but if you plan on doing some intensive Spotify or iPlayer streaming on the move, you'll soon end up paying for it once you go over your monthly allocated megabytes.


----------



## CJohn (Feb 25, 2010)

CJohn said:
			
		

> Sounds like I should give up hope for multitasking then - I think it would make a big difference tho, so it's a shame.



Just read the wirefresh report; maybe I shouldn't give up hope for this just yet.


----------



## pboi (Feb 25, 2010)

and so another side to U75 and Eds tech geekery is revealed


----------



## g force (Feb 25, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> But for all their faults O2 are the only network still with no upper limit on their 'fair use' policy. So you may be able to get better signal on Vodafone but if you plan on doing some intensive Spotify or iPlayer streaming on the move, you'll soon end up paying for it once you go over your monthly allocated megabytes.



£1 per 500MB doesn't break the bank though. Orange's limit is far lower.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 25, 2010)

Last month I used a rather shocking 40meg! It's hard when there is no edge connection where you live, let alone 3g.

Must remember to turn youtube on or something next time I'm out the valley to get my fivers worth.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 25, 2010)

g force said:


> £1 per 500MB doesn't break the bank though. Orange's limit is far lower.



500Mb is nothing though!! I consume that in my sleep! 

If I've got online radio running on 3G at, say 128kbps then I'm using about 58Mb an hour. Even if you're only using your phone half a day to stream audio/video, even  at that measly bandwidth then that works out at nearly 700MB. If you double it to 256kbps then you get less than 5 hours of streaming data for your quid. Do it every day in a month and you've added on another £30 in data fees alone.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 25, 2010)

pboi said:


> Contract is up in April, worth waiting for 4G in June you experts reckon?



I hope so, by August or September anyway, when my contract is up.

I got offered the 3GS for €69 euros plus another 2 year contract, I declined. I'll stick with my 3G, unlock it and switch to another carrier with a decent 3G network and decent customer service in the mean time (I also might have to come back to London for work). I might as well wait for a noticeable upgrade, this 3G still serves my needs. I've got no money anyway, so it's sit on my current gadgets/computers as long as possible...

I may even switch to another phone, the iPhone doesn't engender too much loyalty with me, considering I have to jailbreak it to get the usability I want. We'll see what they bring with iPhone OS 4 and the next piece of hardware, let's see how 'aggressive' they'll be. 
No backgrounding and the lack of serviceable battery is getting annoying now. And kind of shows that while Apple may be innovative with software and form-factor they lag behind with ingenious solutions to these problems.

And Apple's attitude to Flash has right got my goat too, the arrogant fucks, not everyone uses it just for video, though if it galvanises Adobe to make a decent unbuggy version then all good.


----------



## pboi (Feb 25, 2010)

but what would you swap too?


----------



## Structaural (Feb 25, 2010)

pboi said:


> but what would you swap too?



Well, I use the browser 65% of the time, email about 20%, and everything else the remaining 15% (phone, apps) and the iPod concurrently about 30% of the time. So basically any decent modern smartphone that does the first two well would do me, price is a big factor this year and I'll be contract free from August. I might just see how many years this 3G will last


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2010)

Structaural said:


> And Apple's attitude to Flash has right got my goat too, the arrogant fucks, not everyone uses it just for video, though if it galvanises Adobe to make a decent unbuggy version then all good.


Steve Jobs' claim that Flash would kill the iPhone's battery life from 10hrs to 1.5hrs looks to be a stinking pile of FUD.

http://www.flashmobileblog.com/2010/02/24/battery-performance-with-flash-player-10-1-on-nexus-one/


----------



## g force (Feb 25, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> 500Mb is nothing though!! I consume that in my sleep!
> 
> If I've got online radio running on 3G at, say 128kbps then I'm using about 58Mb an hour. Even if you're only using your phone half a day to stream audio/video, even  at that measly bandwidth then that works out at nearly 700MB. If you double it to 256kbps then you get less than 5 hours of streaming data for your quid. Do it every day in a month and you've added on another £30 in data fees alone.



Well I guess it depends on useage...i'll be doing no more than IM/Twitter, checking email and using it as a phone.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 25, 2010)

To be fair, I'm not that bothered that it's not on a phone and would happily see all video converted away from Flash, I use a lot of interactive sites and I doubt these would translate well on a little screeen, but the lack on the bigger iPad would be a no-no for me.  
I'm just fundamentally opposed to having my choices limited for my so-called own good by multi-billion dollar companies. 
Especially ones that can't even work out how to make a battery removable. Ms S spilt wine on her laptop the other day, I whipped out the battery and luckily a few days later it was alright, what does a MacBook Pro user do in this situation with his fixed battery? or if I drop my iPhone in water...


----------



## Sunray (Feb 25, 2010)

editor said:


> Steve Jobs' claim that Flash would kill the iPhone's battery life from 10hrs to 1.5hrs looks to be a stinking pile of FUD.
> 
> http://www.flashmobileblog.com/2010/02/24/battery-performance-with-flash-player-10-1-on-nexus-one/



He has clearly thrown down the glove at Adobe with the lack of flash on the iPad, on top of its stupid name has shelved the iPad.  He's called it obsolete, which is an act of pure defiance for what ever reason.

I don't really need flash on my phone as I don't think it would be fast enough and I don't often look at flash heavy sites.

On a internet browsing device its


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I don't really need flash on my phone as I don't think it would be fast enough and I don't often look at flash heavy sites.


I'd very much like Flash on my phone thanks. 

Many of the pages using Flash aren't necessarily big heavy things - for example, a lot of sites use small bit of embedded Flash to display stats and graphs. It's a real pain not being able to see them. 

Incidentally, my sarky piece on Wirefresh about sites posting up wild iPhone speculation to boost traffic has proved self-prophetic: it's already notched up 1,500 views!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 25, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> I'd very much like Flash on my phone thanks.



Guess the iPhone's not for you, then.


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Guess the iPhone's not for you, then.


You wouldn't like the ability to see Flash content on your phone?


----------



## tarannau (Feb 25, 2010)

No. Not if its anything like Flash performance on a mac. Even that fucking 'rolling' video embed can frequently bring the beachball out on a dual core machine.

Die Flash die. And takes legions of shit Flash developers and overblown sites with you


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2010)

tarannau said:


> No. Not if its anything like Flash performance on a mac. Even that fucking 'rolling' video embed can frequently bring the beachball out on a dual core machine.


And you're not even _slightly_ exaggerating seeing as zillions of Mac users enjoy browsing YouTube websites (and other Flash based content like the massively popular apps on Facebook) every day?

I find it interesting how your sudden vociferous campaign against Flash only seemed to kick in at the same time as Steve Jobs started getting mouthy about it. I wonder if the two things could be, perchance, related?  

As for me, I've been ranting against Flash for years, but not for Apple's self interested reasons.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I hope so, by August or September anyway, when my contract is up.
> 
> I got offered the 3GS for €69 euros plus another 2 year contract, I declined. I'll stick with my 3G, unlock it and switch to another carrier with a decent 3G network and decent customer service in the mean time (I also might have to come back to London for work). I might as well wait for a noticeable upgrade, this 3G still serves my needs. I've got no money anyway, so it's sit on my current gadgets/computers as long as possible...
> 
> ...



You should consider the N900; decent camera, expandable memory, swappable battery, open source software, genuine multitasking, very good browser and Flash support so you can use websites like iplayer and youtube, qwerty keboard, cheaper than iphone. Also if you use the browser a lot you'll really appreciate the display, compared to the low-resolution screen on the iphone. You can read quite a few websites full-width, rather than having to zoom in and out all the time. Not the same selection of apps, but you'd find that you can do a lot of things directly in the web browser that on the iphone you might use a dedicated app for.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 25, 2010)

editor said:


> You wouldn't like the ability to see Flash content on your phone?



Nope, couldn't give a toss in the slightest, utter non-issue.

Amount it's affected me in nearly two years: 0.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2010)

editor said:


> And you're not even _slightly_ exaggerating seeing as zillions of Mac users enjoy browsing YouTube websites (and other Flash based content like the massively popular apps on Facebook) every day?
> 
> I find it interesting how your sudden vociferous campaign against Flash only seemed to kick in at the same time as Steve Jobs started getting mouthy about it. I wonder if the two things could be, perchance, related?
> 
> As for me, I've been ranting against Flash for years, but not for Apple's self interested reasons.



He's right though, Flash is a disaster on macs, especially lower-powered ones. I have a mac mini and I'd often find the processor was churning away at 100% just from looking at websites with flash on them, often leading on to the beach ball and then a crash. This doesn't help anyone to "enjoy browsing" Flash websites. Have since installed flash blockers on all my browsers and life is much more pleasant now.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 25, 2010)

Flash is absolute shite on Macs and am noticing Google Chrome too now. 

If Adobe can't fix that, why bother?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 25, 2010)

I really don't find it as awful as you're making out, kanda


----------



## zenie (Feb 25, 2010)

Flash is fine on our work macs.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 25, 2010)

I don't really have any complaints on the Mac, but tbh, I'm trying to think hard of a site other than YouTube that I use regularly which depends on Flash...


----------



## Kanda (Feb 25, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I really don't find it as awful as you're making out, kanda



Did you read Teuchters post too? 

As for on Chrome, every day I come in and Flash has crashed in the browser tabs I left open overnight.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> I don't really have any complaints on the Mac, but tbh, I'm trying to think hard of a site other than YouTube that I use regularly which depends on Flash...


Since installing the blockers, I've been quite surprised to realise how many little things use flash, that I didn't realise did. For example, on a file sharing service, the the little dialogue box that lets you upload multiple files simultaneously, that kind of thing.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I really don't find it as awful as you're making out, kanda


It might be because you are running some kind of supercomputer mac.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 25, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Since installing the blockers, I've been quite surprised to realise how many little things use flash, that I didn't realise did. For example, on a file sharing service, the the little dialogue box that lets you upload multiple files simultaneously, that kind of thing.



Yeah, see that's what my laptop is for.


----------



## tarannau (Feb 25, 2010)

Flash performance has always been terrible on macs. The latest update makes it just about work ok on Intel chips, begrudgingly.

TBH I've moaned about Flash for years. And the depressing thing is that it really has been such a slow process of improvement that it's really lessened any love towards Adobe and Flash for me. Every owner of an older mac will tend to identify the same issue - it's such a performance dog that it's impossible not to get fucked off.


----------



## Structaural (Feb 25, 2010)

Wow, Flash crashes a browser occasionally, there's better video options, it's buggy, Steve Jobs doesn't like it, lets ban it!


----------



## tarannau (Feb 25, 2010)

It's not about crashing for me really, although that doesn't help admittedly.

It's about the sheer lack of speed - even comparatively late G4s/G5s can really beachball when Flash content's on screen. A core duo mac even holds and beachballs when a flash embed is on a bulletin board - happened to DC on here and to me too

These are capable computers in other ways, capable of supercomputer style calculations. Yet a fucking video or bingo game can drag them to a temporary standstill all too often

Flash is the only reason why I don't recommend more vintage macs to people. Website performance is often dire when Flash is involved.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 25, 2010)

I've never noticed that embedded flash issue, but hey, there you go.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 25, 2010)

Flash is fine on my newer mac, but it cunts over my old mac.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 25, 2010)

teuchter said:


> It might be because you are running some kind of supercomputer mac.



2008 imac


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2010)

Crispy said:


> 2008 imac



supercomputer > 2008 imac > 2005 mac mini


----------



## Crispy (Feb 25, 2010)

fair enough


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2010)

Oooh the irony! 

The cynical piece I wrote for Wirefresh about websites posting up a load of made up 'iPhone news' to increase traffic has now become the most popular post on my site! 

I guess this may have something to do with it as well - type in "iPhone 4G" and Wirefresh is #1 in Google. 

I pwn search engines, me.


----------



## pboi (Feb 25, 2010)

how did you manage to do that so quickly?

luck?

skill?

SEO?

special favours for Steve?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2010)

editor said:


> Oooh the irony!
> 
> The cynical piece I wrote for Wirefresh about websites posting up a load of made up 'iPhone news' to increase traffic has now become the most popular post on my site!
> 
> ...



I'm sorry to have to report a grammatical error in the second paragraph of the wirefresh piece.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 25, 2010)

Probably gets good google love due to ties to u75, which already gets phenomenal google love


----------



## zenie (Feb 25, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I'm sorry to have to report a grammatical error in the second paragraph of the wirefresh piece.


 
You're a bugger   

Where is your preview 4g iphone ed?


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 25, 2010)

teuchter said:


> very good browser and Flash support so you can use websites like iplayer and youtube


YouTube and the iPlayer already work on the iPhone.

Flash support on my iPhone would be nice, but it's not something I really miss.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> YouTube and the iPlayer already work on the iPhone.



Not all videos on youtube are accessible via the youtube app though. A lot are flash only.

Not sure whether the same applies to the iplayer app.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 25, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Not all videos on youtube are accessible via the youtube app though. A lot are flash only.
> 
> Not sure whether the same applies to the iplayer app.



Really? Haven't found one on either iPhone or Apple TV that hasn't worked. Where you find that out?

All of iPlayer works I beleive.

No videos work on the Facebook app though.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Really? Haven't found one on either iPhone or Apple TV that hasn't worked. Where you find that out?



It's definitely the case on the Symbian youtube app (for the same reason), and this seems to confirm the same for the iphone one:

http://macmost.com/iphone-you-tube-application.html


----------



## Crispy (Feb 25, 2010)

that article is 2 years old. I think their whole catalog is available now. some ancient low-view-count ones I was looking at the other day work


----------



## Sunray (Feb 25, 2010)

editor said:


> You wouldn't like the ability to see Flash content on your phone?



Given that the iPhone does not have an ad blocker, not having flash is 80% as good given the vast majority of ad's are now using flash.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 25, 2010)

Sunray said:
			
		

> Given that the iPhone does not have an ad blocker, not having flash is 80% as good given the vast majority of ad's are now using flash.



This.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2010)

Crispy said:


> that article is 2 years old. I think their whole catalog is available now. some ancient low-view-count ones I was looking at the other day work


<br />
Maybe it is now. I know that quite a few videos were still only available in flash a couple of months ago because there were some that I couldn't watch in the symbian app for that reason.

Anyway, I will be happy to see Flash die.


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Given that the iPhone does not have an ad blocker, not having flash is 80% as good given the vast majority of ad's are now using flash.


Yeah, because that'll stop the adverts. An awful lot of sites already serve up iPhone optimised content, and if they want to serve you adverts, they'll go right ahead and do it.

http://www.admob.com/advertise


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Probably gets good google love due to ties to u75, which already gets phenomenal google love


It helps a bit, but not much, really. If I'd embedded the site as part of urban75 it would have been a different story, but one quite popular site linking to Wirefresh can only go so far.

Thing is, I've been creating sites for so long now I really should be reasonably  good at this SEO lark, and the article was rather cynically written (and optimised) to prove a point.

As soon as I finished the article, I knew it would do well, but I am a bit surprised by how popular it proved to be: the site ended the day with over 10,000 page impressions!

Shame I'm so shit and disinterested in the advertising part of it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 26, 2010)

editor said:


> Yeah, because that'll stop the adverts. An awful lot of sites already serve up iPhone optimised content, and if they want to serve you adverts, they'll go right ahead and do it.
> 
> http://www.admob.com/advertise



There's a huge difference between a small strip and crap that covers your page and plays shit music though. The lack of flash has proved very useful I've found with killing adverts...


----------



## paolo (Feb 26, 2010)

I loathe Flash. Outside of being a shell for video streams (that ultimately will be delivered by an open standard) I can't think of any sites where I want it.

The only thing that stops me cheering on Jobs' bullying on this one is that we might end up with the same CPU hogging shit implemented in HTML5


----------



## RaverDrew (Feb 26, 2010)

Hopefully most of the problems with Flash will be sorted with the next build that will make use of hardware acceleration. 

I really need a mobile phone in my life that incorporates Flash, so the N900 fits the bill nicely.


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2010)

GMail and the iPhone don't seem to be playing nice today - I'm getting no new mails through and it seems a fair few people on Twitter are suffering the same problem.


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2010)

Update: Google have admitted there's a problem: 
http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-and-gmail-problem-with-emails-not-coming-through/


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 1, 2010)

Out of interest, when its working properly, does it download your whole inbox to your iphone? 

My gmail account seems to time expire messages to my phone, it only downloads new ones and they disappear after a week or so. This doesn't happen with my other email accounts on my phone, so assume its a gmail thing.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 1, 2010)

Ah it's just the push service. I have my touch set up using IMAP and everything's coming through ok


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 1, 2010)

Thanks. Mine is set up for IMAP as well and I have it on manual send/receive.

Oh well, not the end of the world, just slightly annoying.


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2010)

Perhaps someone can work this out;

I was given codes to download two apps free from a developer. 

In the past, I've had to log into the US store with a separate account to use the codes because of Apple's arsery, so they've installed to my US account.

Trouble is, this time I can't install them on to my phone (the only option offered is to replace my entire library with the two apps). 

This happens whichever account I'm logged in to; i.e. UK or US. It's VERY annoying.


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2010)

A thousand iPhone fart app developers must be quaking in their guffing shoes at the news that Apple has just turned down an app because it only offered  “Minimum User Functionality.”

In fact, I'd imagine there's zillions of app store developers who must be feeling a tad concerned if this is the new line that Apple is taking. Some consumers, meanwhile, may be rejoicing at Apple belatedly closing the door on the endless shit that clogs up the store on a daily basis.

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/03/0...-rejection-reason-minimum-user-functionality/


----------



## Sunray (Mar 2, 2010)

editor said:


> Perhaps someone can work this out;
> 
> I was given codes to download two apps free from a developer.
> 
> ...



Have you tried to install them from the App store on the phone.  This is by far the best way to install apps anyway.

Looks pretty painless to me?

http://www.innerfence.com/howto/redeem-free-promo-code-for-iphone-app-from-iphone-or-itunes


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 2, 2010)

editor said:


> Perhaps someone can work this out;
> 
> I was given codes to download two apps free from a developer.
> 
> ...



A silly question probably, but have you DL'd the apps to the same machine that the iPhone is registered to?

I've accidentally dl'd to my laptop a couple of times & cant upload to the phone from the laptop as the phone's registered with my main workstaion.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 2, 2010)

You can now register iTunes to 5 separate machines.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 2, 2010)

Sunray said:


> You can now register iTunes to 5 separate machines.



I thought you could always do this...


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 2, 2010)

Sunray said:


> You can now register iTunes to 5 separate machines.



Yes - but the iPhone to only one.
(which is absurd)


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2010)

Pie 1;10375619]A silly question probably said:


> Have you tried to install them from the App store on the phone. This is by far the best way to install apps anyway.
> 
> Looks pretty painless to me?
> 
> http://www.innerfence.com/howto/redeem-free-promo-code-for-iphone-app-from-iphone-or-itunes


You have to change your account to a US one and I followed the second part of that tutorial (i.e installing via the PC's iTunes) to the letter.

Once you've inputted the code on your desktop you can't use it on your phone or anywhere else again.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 2, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> Out of interest, when its working properly, does it download your whole inbox to your iphone?
> 
> My gmail account seems to time expire messages to my phone, it only downloads new ones and they disappear after a week or so. This doesn't happen with my other email accounts on my phone, so assume its a gmail thing.



my gmail is exactly the same


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2010)

Bosh! Apple's over-worked lawyers are off again, this time laying down a massive case against HTC. It seems that they forgot to tell HTC though, as they only learnt about it via a press release.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-sues-htc-for-infringing-20-iphone-patents/

The elephant in the room remains Palm, who curiously seem immune to Apple's litigious frenzy, despite some very familiar features appearing on their Pre handset.


----------



## paolo (Mar 2, 2010)

Could be the counter-patent issue. If you've got a stack, and an oppo has a stack, then it's cheaper to let it lie.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 2, 2010)

The suggestion is that the patents named are really more aimed at Android than the hardware. In which case why not sue google? Because apple don't want to attack google. It's all industry politics.


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2010)

Apple are getting increasingly more stroppy with Goggle (and vice versa) so I guess this is just part of some Machiavellian strategy which is unlikely to be in the consumer's long-term best interests.


----------



## magneze (Mar 2, 2010)

To be fair, no company works for consumer's best interests whatever they say.


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2010)

Engadget has done a good job of going through the disputed patents, which date back from 1994 to last month, which is this one:


> *Patent #7,657,849: Unlocking A Device By  Performing Gestures On An Unlock Image*
> This one’s cute ’cause it’s brand new — seriously, it was just  granted on February 2. It’s almost exactly what it says on the tin: it  covers unlocking a touchscreen device by moving an unlock image. It’s  broad enough for us to say that it covers virtually every unlock  behavior we’ve seen on phones, not just the iPhone’s slide-to-unlock  implementation.​


http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/02/apple-vs-htc-a-patent-breakdown/​


magneze said:


> To be fair, no company works for consumer's best interests whatever they say.


Oh for sure, but these massive patent face offs only end up with punters footing the bill.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 2, 2010)

I support patent inventions if they are actual inventions but these inventions are often tiresome and most can probably be struck off by proving prior art.  

Software patents have proved fairly soundly to be a drag to invention and have directly created the patent troll company who's only job it is to buy patents from all over, work out who might be using them and sue their arses off.


----------



## editor (Mar 2, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I support patent inventions if they are actual inventions but these inventions are often tiresome and most can probably be struck off by proving prior art.


If you can afford to challenge them, of course, even when they're clearly ridicuous.

 It's a nasty business, alright.


----------



## paolo (Mar 2, 2010)

This may or may not be Sunray's point, but most patents - as far as I can tell - flying around in tech are software patents, and they are the most loathsome.


----------



## editor (Mar 3, 2010)

Fuck is Apple's support SHIT. I've just spent ages filling in forms to sort out the app problem and right at the end it tells me that there's only US support available. Thanks for telling me at the start. Wankers.

(I followed the help links from within my UK iTunes account)

*starts all over on the UK website


----------



## Crispy (Mar 3, 2010)

were you using www.apple.com or www.apple.com/uk ?


----------



## editor (Mar 3, 2010)

Crispy said:


> were you using www.apple.com or www.apple.com/uk ?


I followed the 'help' link from within my iTunes desktop app (which was logged into my UK account). Clearly it took me to the US site.



I've now re-entered everything all over so will wait to see if they respond. It's a real pain in the arse - I've never had to jump through these ridiculous hoops for any other mobile platform just to review an app.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 3, 2010)

editor said:


> Fuck is Apple's support SHIT. I've just spent ages filling in forms to sort out the app problem and right at the end it tells me that there's only US support available. Thanks for telling me at the start. Wankers.
> 
> (I followed the help links from within my UK iTunes account)
> 
> *starts all over on the UK website



Might be worth booking a slot in the Regent st store?


----------



## editor (Mar 3, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Might be worth booking a slot in the Regent st store?


I just want to install a £1.59 app not pay a visit to iBorg Central. 

I think I'd rather punch myself in the face than line up for a chat at the  'Genius Bar.' It's one hideous Americanism too far for me I'm afraid.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 3, 2010)

editor said:


> It's one hideous Americanism too far for me I'm afraid.



Being able to get one to one support for free is a hideous Americanism? 

It's a fantastic idea, other companies should follow suit really.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 3, 2010)

editor said:


> I just want to install a £1.59 app not pay a visit to iBorg Central.
> 
> I think I'd rather punch myself in the face than line up for a chat at the  'Genius Bar.' It's one hideous Americanism too far for me I'm afraid.



My workmate took his borked iphone to the Genius Bar a few weeks ago.

He didn't come back in a state of calm.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 4, 2010)

Apple patent case 'could affect all android phones'



> Apple's legal action against HTC may have "wider implications" for all phone makers using Google's Android operating system, an analyst has warned.
> 
> Ian Fogg of Forrester Research said that the case against HTC, in which Apple alleges infringement of 20 of its patents, could be the first of many.
> 
> Although Apple has not named Google in the suits, many of the named patents relate to operating system processes.



This tit for tat legal bollocks is starting to really piss me off.


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2010)

There's an interesting article on CNet tat suggests that the "big, bold" risk that Apple's been saving up for could be a legal challenge to crush any iPhone-like device, using a combination of their patents and their near unlimited legal and financial resources.



> But Apple is not interested in generating cash through licensing technology. In fact, Cook made that very clear during the company's recent shareholder meeting. When asked if the company would consider licensing technologies that Apple develops but doesn't actually sell, he said that the company is "not in the business of licensing ideas."
> 
> "In many other patent cases, it's about money," Schultz said. "But that's not likely the case with Apple. You generally only get Apple developed technology on Apple products."
> 
> ...


Related article worth a peek:
Would 2010 Steve Jobs Sue 1996 (Or 1984) Steve Jobs Over Patents?
http://techdirt.com/articles/20100302/1303598369.shtml


----------



## Kanda (Mar 4, 2010)

> You generally only get Apple developed technology on Apple products



Isn't really true.

NeXT was bought by Apple. Pixar was created by buying Lasseter's animation company or was it the animation division of Lucasfilm? Can't remember... iPod tech was bought, there's even credits for the company on every iPod (PortalPlayer). Even iTunes was ripped from a previous project started by Tony Fadell (SoundJam).... The majority of Apple's developments have come via aquisitions. Jobs just then twists everything to say he done it


----------



## grit (Mar 4, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Isn't really true.
> 
> NeXT was bought by Apple.



Jobs founded NeXT.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 4, 2010)

grit said:


> Jobs founded NeXT.



Yes, then sold it to Apple.


----------



## grit (Mar 4, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Yes, then sold it to Apple.



I agree 100% with your point, was just pointing that out. Honestly for me, after 2 years my iPhone 3G battery has gotten kinda shit and the gloss of the device has worn off a bit.

The iPhone changed everything in mobile, but its now actually got some great competitors so its time to shop around I think.


----------



## grit (Mar 4, 2010)

Seeing stuff like this http://www.swypeinc.com/ is sealing the android deal for me.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 4, 2010)

grit said:


> I agree 100% with your point, was just pointing that out. Honestly for me, after 2 years my iPhone 3G battery has gotten kinda shit and the gloss of the device has worn off a bit.
> 
> The iPhone changed everything in mobile, but its now actually got some great competitors so its time to shop around I think.



It has from a hardware point of view, but as we know hardware is nothing without software.

The iPhone wins and will win forever on this.  I can see people creating iPhone App compatible phones like they did with  PC Compatibles.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2010)

Sunray said:


> It has from a hardware point of view, but as we know hardware is nothing without software.
> 
> The iPhone wins and will win forever on this.  I can see people creating iPhone App compatible phones like they did with  PC Compatibles.


Only if apple let them, and you know that won't happen.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Only if apple let them, and you know that won't happen.



IBM were one of the biggest companies in the world at the time and they couldn't stop it.

I can't see Apple being able to stop emulation of the iPhone eco-system so applications can run. Its not illegal and does not use anyone's patents or code.


----------



## grit (Mar 4, 2010)

Sunray said:


> The iPhone wins and will win forever on this.



Yeah and 640k should be enough for everyone right? Come on Sunray I see you post a lot in here same as the other geeks. You should know better than making statements such as forever in tech.

I'm willing to lose some of the slick OSX mobile finish to get a phone with better hardware and not to have to do the itunes dance anymore.

Also, fucking result, I've just realized google will ship a Nexus One to the UK. However I'm a bit worried about what tax and customs bollocks is going to be slapped on the price. Anyone know what I can expect it to be?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2010)

Sunray said:


> IBM were one of the biggest companies in the world at the time and they couldn't stop it.
> 
> I can't see Apple being able to stop emulation of the iPhone eco-system so applications can run. Its not illegal and does not use anyone's patents or code.


IBM couldn't stop it because they only made the hardware. IBM allowed microsoft to make DOS for non IBM machines, so only the BIOS had to be re-written for compatible clones to appear. Phoenix did a 'clean room' reverse engineering of the PC BIOS and the rest is history.

Apple control both hardware and software for the iphone. Under Jobs, there have been not even the slightest hints that licensed clones will make a comeback (stopping the Mac clones was one of his first orders when he returned to the company). Emulating an iphone will therefore require writing an OSX-compatible operating system and that will not be easy at all, especially as Apple can update the official version on a whim and break compatability.


----------



## zenie (Mar 4, 2010)

grit said:


> Also, fucking result, I've just realized google will ship a Nexus One to the UK. However I'm a bit worried about what tax and customs bollocks is going to be slapped on the price. Anyone know what I can expect it to be?


 
That's my worry, and 'what do you do if it doesn't work'


----------



## grit (Mar 4, 2010)

zenie said:


> That's my worry, and 'what do you do if it doesn't work'



Reports seem to indicate that most people are not actually billed by customs leaving the cost at about 360 for an unlocked phone. Even if customs do snag you it brings it to about 450 which is still very cheap when compared to the alternatives.

Warranty returns will behave the same as any other phone really.


----------



## zenie (Mar 4, 2010)

Hmm I've never got away with getting anything in from the US without paying customs.  Even a camera sent from my step-mother as a gift got fuckin customs charged!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 4, 2010)

Sunray said:


> The iPhone wins and will win forever on this.



It won't though, thank fuck.


----------



## grit (Mar 4, 2010)

zenie said:


> Hmm I've never got away with getting anything in from the US without paying customs.  Even a camera sent from my step-mother as a gift got fuckin customs charged!



Aye I'd be surprised if a commercial shipment from the states being moved by DHL doesnt get caught, perhaps they invoice you a few weeks later, i dont know. Either way that extra 80 odd quid is not enough to sway me away from it.


----------



## grit (Mar 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> IBM couldn't stop it because they only made the hardware. IBM allowed microsoft to make DOS for non IBM machines, so only the BIOS had to be re-written for compatible clones to appear. Phoenix did a 'clean room' reverse engineering of the PC BIOS and the rest is history.
> 
> Apple control both hardware and software for the iphone. Under Jobs, there have been not even the slightest hints that licensed clones will make a comeback (stopping the Mac clones was one of his first orders when he returned to the company). Emulating an iphone will therefore require writing an OSX-compatible operating system and that will not be easy at all, especially as Apple can update the official version on a whim and break compatability.



Agreed, considering the aggressive tactics used to shut down the mac desktop clone makers I cant see a different tactic being taken with anyone who attempts it in the mobile space.


----------



## Bungle73 (Mar 4, 2010)

grit said:


> Warranty returns will behave the same as any other phone really.


Who are going to return it to?  You'd have to ship it back to the US.


----------



## grit (Mar 4, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> Who are going to return it to?  You'd have to ship it back to the US.



Right now yes,but its being launched on vodafone in the uk next month so I'd imagine there will be UK based warranty services shortly afterwords.


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2010)

Sunray said:


> It has from a hardware point of view, but as we know hardware is nothing without software.
> 
> The iPhone wins and will win forever on this.  I can see people creating iPhone App compatible phones like they did with  PC Compatibles.


Seeing as almost all of the apps and/or app functionality that really matter on the iPhone are  available on other platforms, the App Store advantage isn;t as compelling as it once was. 

Things like multi-tasking and a decent camera are becoming more important that the 1,000th fart app and as people get used to smartphones, they're going to demand more hardware functionality.


----------



## pboi (Mar 4, 2010)

well im more confuzzled about which one to get now!

damn you all and your knowledge


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2010)

indeed, the competition are catching up fast. It'll be interesting to see if apple have been preparing for this and have all sorts of special lined up for OS4.0 or if they've been sitting on their laurels. the phone market is much more fickle than the computer market and they might not be ready for it...


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> indeed, the competition are catching up fast. It'll be interesting to see if apple have been preparing for this and have all sorts of special lined up for OS4.0 or if they've been sitting on their laurels. the phone market is much more fickle than the computer market and they might not be ready for it...


Or maybe they're going to go the other route and use their vast wealth, bought up patents and near-infinite legal resources to just kill off the competition rather than keep innovating their way to the front of the pack?

I hope not, although their legal assault on Google via HTC doesn't bode well.


----------



## grit (Mar 4, 2010)

Right Nexus One is ordered, I'll write you boys up a review once I get it


----------



## elbows (Mar 4, 2010)

editor said:


> Or maybe they're going to go the other route and use their vast wealth, bought up patents and near-infinite legal resources to just kill off the competition rather than keep innovating their way to the front of the pack?
> 
> I hope not, although their legal assault on Google via HTC doesn't bode well.



I would expect them to do both, as well as trying to expand the platform with things like the iPad.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2010)

Indeed. I think the ipad is just the first step in a wide range of touch-based computers/devices that apple will make in the next 10 years. Getting apple TV right could also be a big move, but only if the content providers come on board.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 4, 2010)

There was some talk/rumour of iPhone/iPad OS possibly getting ported to Apple TV


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2010)

It would be a good fit, although the interfaces are very different


----------



## Kanda (Mar 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It would be a good fit, although the interfaces are very different



Nah, you'd just open the Apple TV app to use it as that. Safari app.. etc etc


----------



## Crispy (Mar 4, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Nah, you'd just open the Apple TV app to use it as that. Safari app.. etc etc


I mean touch vs. remote.

I mean, Apple TV and iphone already OSX, just customised versions thereof, with UIs to suit the input method.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 4, 2010)

I control my Apple TV from my iPhone, sod the remote


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> I would expect them to do both, as well as trying to expand the platform with things like the iPad.


Here's the current sue-fest in diagrammatic form:







http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/03/04/an-explosion-of-mobile-patent-lawsuits/

Meanwhile, Apple are busy pulling yet more approved apps from the AppStore without explanation or apology;



> Wi-Fi hotspot detecting applications are the latest on Apple's list of verboten apps, and even developers are being left in the dark as to why.
> Wi-Fi detection is something of a niche: there were never more than a handful of such applications in iTunes. But now even those have vanished as Apple decided they were using a "private framework", and has pulled them off the shelves without explanation or apology.
> 
> ...For the developers it doesn't much matter either way: their work is wasted as the applications can't, legitimately, be sold without Apple approval. So they'll have to be shelved against the hope that Cupertino changes its mind at some point.
> ...


----------



## Structaural (Mar 4, 2010)

Jobbie's iPhone app:


----------



## elbows (Mar 4, 2010)

editor said:


> Meanwhile, Apple are busy pulling yet more approved apps from the AppStore without explanation or apology;



Patent spaghetti, ugh.

As for those apps that have been pulled, if they were using a private framework then that is the explanation, I seem to recall its a clearly stated rule of the app store that you dont use private frameworks, although I could be wrong.

Not that Im enjoying seeing this control freakery, the control of apps going against most of what Ive been used to from growing up during the home computer revolution.  Exchanging the nightmare of mobile network operators being the gatekeeper for the device manufacturer becoming the gatekeeper instead is not good and I shouldnt allow the qualities of their devices to make me too relaxed about this stuff. I can live with Apple doing it but if the concept catches on and becomes the norm in future then I shall be very sad. Likewise I expect patent squabbling but if in a couple of years its clearly shown to have had a large impact on choice and progress then I'll be miffed.


----------



## editor (Mar 5, 2010)

This is interesting. Palm's new Plug-in Development Kit apparently lets iPhone developers port over games to the webOS "in a matter of days" - which could prove a nice little earner for Palm and a winner for punters and devs. 

http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-games-ported-to-palms-webos-in-a-matter-of-days/


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Mar 5, 2010)

ok i have an iNeed...is there a remote control FOR the iphone out there anywhere?

I know I can control lots of things WITH my iPhone...but is there a cute little wire-free gadget I could hold in my hand that would enable me to control iTunes or some other audio programme which is playing on my iPhone that is sitting securely hidden in a pocket?


----------



## Kanda (Mar 5, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> I know I can control lots of things WITH my iPhone...but is there a cute little wire-free gadget I could hold in my hand that would enable me to control iTunes or some other audio programme which is playing on my iPhone that is sitting securely hidden in a pocket?



No.

Only the controls that are on your iPhone headphones I'm afraid. or an adaptor that you use with controls on that plugs into your non-Apple headphones.

I don't think there's ever been something like that for any phone, or iPod.

E2A after a quick google: http://www.colordrives.com/wireless-remote.html (but it's infra-red, am sure a more thorough Google may come up with something)


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Mar 5, 2010)

Kanda said:


> No.
> 
> Only the controls that are on your iPhone headphones I'm afraid. or an adaptor that you use with controls on that plugs into your non-Apple headphones.
> 
> I don't think there's ever been something like that for any phone, or iPod.



thanks....really?!...damn my non-orthodox iNeeds


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Mar 5, 2010)

Kanda said:


> E2A after a quick google: http://www.colordrives.com/wireless-remote.html (but it's infra-red, am sure a more thorough Google may come up with something)



ahhh my googling didnt come up with that, shouldve used quote marks - thanks Kanda

yeah infra-red may be stymied by my trousers hehehe

will keep on googlin'


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Mar 5, 2010)

I might end up having to get one of those things designed to FM transmit your tunes to a radio...and they come with a remote control...adds an extra layer of transmission that I don't need though. Hmmm


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2010)

Four emails to Apple and four replies from their Genius Bar Guru (or whatever they call their tech support) and I *still* can't fucking install the two review apps that were sent to me because of iTunes arsery.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 8, 2010)

Some of my smart playlists have stopped working for no apparrent reason. No amount of syncing is fixing it.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Four emails to Apple and four replies from their Genius Bar Guru (or whatever they call their tech support) and I *still* can't fucking install the two review apps that were sent to me because of iTunes arsery.



Have you restored to factory settings?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 8, 2010)

Developer access keys (or whatever they call them) are tied to one country's iTunes store. Your iphone is tied to the UK store. The developer key is tied to the US store. You can't mix the two. So you'd have to wipe the iphone and re-tie it to a US itunes account. I think you already know this, ed - you're only beating yourself up by trying to get apple support to fix it

It's a totally shit system, of course.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Developer access keys (or whatever they call them) are tied to one country's iTunes store. Your iphone is tied to the UK store. The developer key is tied to the US store. You can't mix the two. So you'd have to wipe the iphone and re-tie it to a US itunes account. I think you already know this, ed - you're only beating yourself up by trying to get apple support to fix it


That's not true according to the UK developer I dealt with.

I was given a  review code for his Ordnance Survey app, but was informed the only way to redeem it was to have a US account as there wasn't the option for developers to offer a UK code for reviewers. 

I then downloaded the app via my US iTunes account and successfully installed it onto my phone - which is exactly what I'm trying to do now except this time it won't work (in fact, I can't even rearrange any of my app icons via iTunes in either account now).

I've authorised, de-authorised computers, logged on/off/and shaken it all about and still the apps won't install. The Apple person says it should work too, which is why it's so frustrating. 

I fucking hate this control freakery. It's quite putting me off the phone.





Sunray said:


> Have you restored to factory settings?


That's not something I'm going to do lightly and there's no guarantee it will solve the problem either.


----------



## zenie (Mar 8, 2010)

Is there a way to deactivate the 'turn on silent' button? I'm getting rather fucked off with this now.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2010)

Looks like Apple is going to cut down on the zillions of apps offering the same functionality which makes sense, but it's also started swatting away useful wi-fi stumbler apps on one of its random unapproving missions. 

It looks like the excellent eWiFi app that I've been using has suddenly been booted off.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 8, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> ok i have an iNeed...is there a remote control FOR the iphone out there anywhere?
> 
> I know I can control lots of things WITH my iPhone...but is there a cute *little wire-free gadget I could hold in my hand that would enable me to control iTunes* or some other audio programme which is playing on my iPhone that is sitting securely hidden in a pocket?



There is something; I think it's called an "iPhone".


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Looks like Apple is going to cut down on the zillions of apps offering the same functionality which makes sense, but it's also started swatting away useful wi-fi stumbler apps on one of its random unapproving missions.
> 
> It looks like the excellent eWiFi app that I've been using has suddenly been booted off.



I think the ways of God are less mysterious than the Apple app approval system....


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2010)

Rumour is a lot of books could be the next to go. I didn't realise there were over 27,000 of them in the store, many of them duplicates.

http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/08/apple-app-store-books-ipad


----------



## Sunray (Mar 9, 2010)

editor said:


> That's not something I'm going to do lightly and there's no guarantee it will solve the problem either.



Interestingly I also thought it would completely blank my phone before I did it, but actually what it does is to back it up 1st including all the text messages, apps, contacts etc, clean the phone and then put it back the way it was.

So its worth a try because you are in what I term the 'Google minority'  which is where no matter how hard I search, there ain't very many people moaning about the problem your having.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 9, 2010)

editor said:


> Rumour is a lot of books could be the next to go. I didn't realise there were over 27,000 of them in the store, many of them duplicates.
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/08/apple-app-store-books-ipad



Is it rumour or is it speculation?



> Before developers get alarmed, *I should make it clear that I haven’t heard anything about Apple removing the myriad book apps from the App Store. *But given the impending release of Apple’s own iBooks app alongside the iPad, and the recent App Store cleanup spree, I won’t be at all surprised if they do something to change the way books are treated on the platform.


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2010)

Sunray said:


> So its worth a try because you are in what I term the 'Google minority'  which is where no matter how hard I search, there ain't very many people moaning about the problem your having.


I guess it's an option, but I'll wait and see what the Apple person says first. One of my review apps came from the US store and I don't want to lose it seeing as it was £15!


----------



## editor (Mar 9, 2010)

Looks like some parts of the industry are getting miffed by Apple's moral censorship. The iTaliban insist that iPhone girls must have clothes on. 



> The International Federation of the  Periodical Press (FIPP) is considering making a complaint to Apple  over the computer firm's request that German publisher Springer censor  the naked girls on one of its iPhone apps.
> Springer-owned tabloid  Bild's  "Shake the Bild Girl" app allows iPhone users to undress a model.  Each time the user shakes the phone, the girl strips an item of her  clothing. While Bild features naked  women daily in its pages, Apple ruled that the girls in its iPhone app  should wear bikinis.
> 
> The Association of German Magazine Publishers  (VDZ) asked FIPP last week to approach Apple over the issue. FIPP is  debating the issue, but has no further comment at the moment.
> ...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 10, 2010)

The latest must have accessory for your iphone. The meat stylus. 









> Apple and HTC might each be trying to patent a fancy capacitive stylus, but it looks like the good people of South Korea have stumbled on a decidedly more low-tech (and delicious) solution to using their phones in the winter: sausages. Apparently snack sausages from the CJ Corporation are electrostatically compatible with the iPhone's capacitive touchscreen, leading many to use them as a "meat stylus" in the cold weather, rather than remove a glove. And it's not just a joke; apparently South Korean snack sausage sales are soaring.



Engadget


----------



## Gromit (Mar 10, 2010)

editor said:


> Looks like some parts of the industry are getting miffed by Apple's moral censorship. The iTaliban insist that iPhone girls must have clothes on.



Still a very silly stance as Apple provide a porn viewer free of charge for the iPhone. Its called safari.

You can even view porn videos via it.

Is Apple's stance against porn or that people are charged for porn? Crusaders for free porn for all!


----------



## elbows (Mar 11, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Is Apple's stance against porn or that people are charged for porn? Crusaders for free porn for all!



Neither. Its about the image of the app store, they dont actually care what porno stuff people do on the device (as long as its not too public), but they care a lot how their store comes across.


----------



## elbows (Mar 11, 2010)

There are more rumours going around about multitasking in iphone OS 4. Personally I will be extremely surprised if they dont add multitasking at some point, cant be totally sure it will be this year but would not be surprised, especially with the ipad looming.


----------



## editor (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm *still* talking to Apple about trying to install these fucking apps to my phone. 

I've deauthorised my computer. 
I've authorised my computer. 

I've logged in, out, in, out and I've shaken it all about, and still they're stuck on both accounts with a greyed out screen to the right so I can't control any of my installed apps in iTunes.

Cheers pple.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 12, 2010)

I think your just going to have to bite the bullet and restore your phone.  This is assuming that you've hard reset it before doing all of the above by holding the power and home keys till it powers off.


----------



## editor (Mar 12, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I think your just going to have to bite the bullet and restore your phone.  This is assuming that you've hard reset it before doing all of the above by holding the power and home keys till it powers off.


I'm waiting to see what Apple advise first. Their control freakery is starting to piss me off enough to consider another phone already. 

The phone's pretty good, but I don't imagine things are going to get any better - I've already got one useful app which has been subsequently been banned by Herr Jobbs & Co (eWiFi).


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 12, 2010)

editor said:


> control freakery





editor said:


> control freakery





editor said:


> Herr Jobbs & Co





editor said:


> control freakery





editor said:


> control freakery





editor said:


> Herr Jobbs & Co





editor said:


> Herr Jobbs & Co





editor said:


>





editor said:


>




We. Get. It.


----------



## editor (Mar 12, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> We. Get. It.


I know my posts are always worth rereading, but I don't see much benefit in you regurgitating the same parts of  my last post over and over again.

In fact, it's rather disruptive. Please grow up. Ta.


----------



## grit (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm an extremely happy Nexus one owner after being on the iPhone teet for two years.

Android is the future imho.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 12, 2010)

elbows said:


> Neither. Its about the image of the app store, they dont actually care what porno stuff people do on the device (as long as its not too public), but they care a lot how their store comes across.



The fact is, if you sign up for an iPhone, you also sign up for tacit acceptance of the American conservative right's moral standards.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 12, 2010)

I'm looking forward to seeing which phone the editor's going to get next.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 12, 2010)

grit said:


> I'm an extremely happy Nexus one owner after being on the iPhone teet for two years.
> 
> Android is the future imho.



My G1 is on its last legs (the touchscreen can get quite hit or miss at times) and I'm seriously thinking about a Nexus One. Still not sure about no physical keyboard though, but there are rumours of a Nexus Two coming along that will have one...


----------



## editor (Mar 12, 2010)

teuchter said:


> The fact is, if you sign up for an iPhone, you  also sign up for tacit acceptance of the American conservative right's  moral standards.


Sure, but things have taken a turn for the worse  since I bought the thing and it's a process that seems to be  accelerating:  http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-adult-app-censorship-apples-unconvincing-explanation/

As an aside, the thing I've always found a little odd with every phone I've ever had  is the sheer amount of US Godsquad apps that are available. There's millions of them!


teuchter said:


> I'm looking forward to seeing which phone the editor's going to get next.


Me too! I like the iPhone, but I'm finding Apple's controlling ethics more stifling than I expected. 

I'm not keen on Android's interface but the newer phones look great, while Palm - which still has, by far, the best OS of the lot, IMO - needs to come up with some far better designs to win over the public now that the apps are coming through.


----------



## editor (Mar 12, 2010)

Does anyone know how I can get a unified email inbox on my iPhone for all my accounts (without changing my current email accounts or messing about with forwarding)?


----------



## Gromit (Mar 12, 2010)

editor said:


> Does anyone know how I can get a unified email inbox on my iPhone for all my accounts (without changing my current email accounts or messing about with forwarding)?


 
Um. You can imap to an already unified email account. Only option I can think of.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 12, 2010)

Can't be done


----------



## Gromit (Mar 12, 2010)

I can unify all my Gmail accounts but I'm not sure if you can get gmail to then access your 3rd party pop accounts. But if you could than you could just check the one Gmail account.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 12, 2010)

What we need is an app that shows the buses in London


----------



## Crispy (Mar 12, 2010)

Badgers said:


> What we need is an app that shows the buses in London


You mean their actual, current GPS location? That would be cool


----------



## Badgers (Mar 12, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You mean their actual, current GPS location? That would be cool



Yup, it would make my year


----------



## teuchter (Mar 12, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You mean their actual, current GPS location? That would be cool



Can we get them to sort out showing it on bus stops properly first, please.


----------



## Gromit (Mar 12, 2010)

Badgers said:


> What we need is an app that shows the buses in London


 
I got one. It ain't very good. Its an Addon for the London Tube ap.

However when I was at Fullham recently at a massive two storey bus station I tried to use it... well it didn't have the bus station on its list of stations.


----------



## STFC (Mar 12, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You mean their actual, current GPS location? That would be cool



That would be the best app yet.

I got myself an iPhone 3GS last week and, battery aside, it's ace.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 12, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I got one. It ain't very good. Its an Addon for the London Tube ap.
> 
> However when I was at Fullham recently at a massive two storey bus station I tried to use it... well it didn't have the bus station on its list of stations.



You want "London Bus" - it's the best all-round london public transport app out there. does rail/tube/tram journeyplanning, get-me-home button, stop-by-stop route lists for buses with GPS location. gmaps for every checkpoint on your route. great stuff and totally worth the 70p


----------



## grit (Mar 12, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> My G1 is on its last legs (the touchscreen can get quite hit or miss at times) and I'm seriously thinking about a Nexus One. Still not sure about no physical keyboard though, but there are rumours of a Nexus Two coming along that will have one...



Nexus Two will be a while off I'd imagine. Two things are extremely fucking exciting about android.

1. I've written one app with no handset specific code that worked on over 17 different handsets from different manufacturers perfectly (i thought we would be still years away from this)

2. Its scaling all the way down to budget handsets so the amount of phones its going to be on is going to be huge.


----------



## editor (Mar 12, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You want "London Bus" - it's the best all-round london public transport app out there. does rail/tube/tram journeyplanning, get-me-home button, stop-by-stop route lists for buses with GPS location. gmaps for every checkpoint on your route. great stuff and totally worth the 70p


Seconded. It's an excellent app and goes well with National Rail and Tube deluxe for a full-on suite of transport apps. Lob in dB Navigator for foreign rail and you're sorted for public transport!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 12, 2010)

Badgers said:
			
		

> Yup, it would make my year



And mine. Apparently they are or very will be gps equip so it's s case of whether tfl will allow that info shared...


----------



## grit (Mar 12, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And mine. Apparently they are or very will be gps equip so it's s case of whether tfl will allow that info shared...



I want to build a tube application for android, getting the data has been a pain in the arse. I have to screen scrape every possible journey.

TFL make no effort to currently share any of the data. They want 500 quid just to reproduce the tube map, which seems a bit much to me. I doubt they would be any better with the buses.


----------



## madamv (Mar 12, 2010)

Anyone here with an iphone who can talk sparklefish through getting a 3G signal?  Her internet is down and she cant get her iphone to pick up a 3g so she can go online...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 12, 2010)

madamv said:


> Anyone here with an iphone who can talk sparklefish through getting a 3G signal?  Her internet is down and she cant get her iphone to pick up a 3g so she can go online...



What's the problem with it? I know from personal experience that you have to change the settings sometimes if you're on O2 PAYG - they're set up for contract by default. That's about as far as I can help though really.


----------



## madamv (Mar 12, 2010)

thanks fm...  she is contract with orange...


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 13, 2010)

Is it possible to get a single view for all messages types on the iphone. (email and sms mixed together) like you can on the blackberry?


----------



## editor (Mar 13, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Is it possible to get a single view for all messages types on the iphone. (email and sms mixed together) like you can on the blackberry?


No. SMS and email management appear to be very basic on the iPhone. The Palm webOS does this kind of thing the best of the lot, IMO.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 13, 2010)

The purchase of my Apple care for that extra year has proved worthwhile, the screen had this defect that was getting progressively worse and if I wanted to sell it would have effected the value quite a bit.  They are replacing the screen while I wait. Using a Mac Book pro, I like these scrabble keys, great invention as is a multi touch touch pad.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 13, 2010)

editor said:


> No. SMS and email management appear to be very basic on the iPhone. The Palm webOS does this kind of thing the best of the lot, IMO.



Do you think this will always be the case?  I have a feeling that the next version of the OS will improve it quite a bit, though probably not to your exacting standards.

I was reflecting on the reason for some of the restrictions they imposed on the  software and I think it was to get it out the door, it made the software easier to develop and as time has passed they have addressed pressing issues slowly.


----------



## editor (Mar 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Do you think this will always be the case?  I have a feeling that the next version of the OS will improve it quite a bit, though probably not to your exacting standards.


I don't think Apple are likely to let any third party get their paws on the core email and SMS functionality of the iPhone, despite the obvious improvements that they might bring to the user experience.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And mine. Apparently they are or very will be gps equip so it's s case of whether tfl will allow that info shared...



http://www.swisstrains.ch/


----------



## Structaural (Mar 14, 2010)

Good article about Apple's walled garden and Job's crapness with devs:

http://benfry.com/writing/archives/608



> The irony is that the original Mac was almost a failure because of Jobs' insistence at the time about how closed the machine must be. I recall reading about how the original Macintosh was almost nearly a failure, were it not for engineers who developed AppleTalk networking in spite of Steve Jobs' insistence of keeping the original Macintosh as an island unto itself. Networking helped make the “Macintosh Office” possible by connecting a series of Macs to the laser printer (introduced at the same time), and so followed the desktop publishing revolution of the mid-80s. Until that point, the 128K Macintosh was largely a $2500 novelty.


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Good article about Apple's walled garden and Job's crapness with devs:
> 
> http://benfry.com/writing/archives/608


That is a good article.


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2010)

Some Qs, if you please:

If I piss about with this 'restore' option for my iPhone, will it definitely restore all my apps (including the eWiFi one that Apple has since thrown off the AppStore?).

What about my music? Will I have to put that all back on again manually?


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2010)

Interesting article about the ongoing Apple vs Google fisticuffs:


> The New  York Times has a full length feature up about the state of the  Apple vs. Google rivalry and how it’s getting personal. We’ve heard similar  several times before, of course, and Apple has filed a patent  infringement lawsuit against Android manufacturer HTC. But the details  here are interesting:
> As Google’s plans took shape, Apple and Google executives either  met in person or spoke on the phone on multiple occasions about Apple’s  concern about Android, executives on both sides say.
> Many of those meetings turned confrontational, according to people  familiar with the discussions, with Mr. Jobs often accusing Google of  stealing iPhone features. Google executives said that Android’s features  were based on longstanding ideas already circulating in the industry  and that some Android prototypes predated the iPhone.
> At one particularly heated meeting in 2008 on Google’s campus, Mr.  Jobs angrily told Google executives that if they deployed a version of  multitouch — the popular iPhone feature that allows users to control  their devices with flicks of their fingers — he would sue. Two people  briefed on the meeting described it as “fierce” and “heated.”​  It’s undeniable that Google bought Android before Apple released the  iPhone (though Apple was reportedly working on the iPhone/iPad  technology for 2-3 years  already by then). It’s also undeniable that the early Android  prototypes we saw looked more like BlackBerry or Windows Mobile  Standard, yet when Google debuted the G1, it was a full screen,  capacitive touch device with the same screen resolution as the iPhone.  From the Hero to the Droid to the Nexus One, similar form factors have  followed while the BlackBerry-esque devices have yet to be seen.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2010)

editor said:


> Some Qs, if you please:
> 
> If I piss about with this 'restore' option for my iPhone, will it definitely restore all my apps (including the eWiFi one that Apple has since thrown off the AppStore?).
> 
> What about my music? Will I have to put that all back on again manually?



If you've synced and backed up to your computer yes it will bring back all your data and music (assuming you have auto sync on).


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If you've synced and backed up to your computer yes it will bring back all your data and music (assuming you have auto sync on).


I'm not using iTunes to sync my music but it's set to 'automatically sync when the iPhone is connected.'

So I just bash the 'restore' button, let it do its thing and then restore from a previous back up, yes?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm not using iTunes to sync my music but it's set to 'automatically sync when the iPhone is connected.'
> 
> So I just bash the 'restore' button, let it do its thing and then restore from a previous back up, yes?



Oh right. I assume the rest of your non music data is stored via iTunes though?


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh right. I assume the rest of your non music data is stored via iTunes though?


Nope. I use Media Monkey which is about a thousand times better than iTunes, so I just manually drag over the music files.

Oh well. Here goes!


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2010)

What the...? I haven't bought any songs on iTunes...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2010)

editor said:


> What the...? I haven't bought any songs on iTunes...



I think that might be it's way of saying you didn't sync these songs via iTunes before and it's trying too?


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2010)

It's stuck and won't activate itself - I'm getting this weird error message.

And I thought iPhones were supposed to make things simple.


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2010)

It's fucked. It now wants me to go through the whole restore procedure again because it can't read the phone.


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2010)

After several run-throughs it's finally activated - but has lost *all* of my apps and is telling me to start all over again.

What a piece of fucking shit. 

So, here we go again.....

_edit ten minutes later:_ and again.. and again......

The stuff on the web about this 0xE800000A error isn't too encouraging.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 14, 2010)

editor said:


> It's stuck and won't activate itself - I'm getting this weird error message.
> 
> And I thought iPhones were supposed to make things simple.



Er well it is for me but then I let it sync everything via iTunes (which my outlook is connected too)....


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2010)

And after about seven full restores and a system reboot thrown in for good measure it's lost every single one of my apps and STILL wont let me install those two fucking programs, or drag icons around the iTunes screen.

Looks like I'm going to have to start all over.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 15, 2010)

Very weird, sounds like the phone is a bit borked.  

I've never had any of the issues you have had.  Just worked. Only ever done it once because I installed Windows 7 and it wouldn't let me switch on Manually manage music without blanking all that was on there.

You did hard reset before you did that didn't you. Not sure it would make a difference now but worth a try.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 15, 2010)

Sunray said:
			
		

> Very weird, sounds like the phone is a bit borked.
> 
> I've never had any of the issues you have had.  Just worked. Only ever done it once because I installed Windows 7 and it wouldn't let me switch on Manually manage music without blanking all that was on there.
> 
> You did hard reset before you did that didn't you. Not sure it would make a difference now but worth a try.



Yeah the phone thing might be the case...very weird the problems the Editor had above.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 15, 2010)

I still recommend booking an appointment in the Apple shop to see if they can do anything.  Might just replace it.  

I did and they replaced my screen in about 15 min.


----------



## editor (Mar 15, 2010)

I've finally got the thing working and am having to reinstall everything from scratch - which means I'm going to end up £15 down because one of the apps was a freebie from the US store (and I'm not going back there again!).


----------



## Sunray (Mar 15, 2010)

If you have sync'd with the app on the phone then it will have been copied off the phone to the itunes\mobile applications folder.  Go to the app's section of iTunes, tick the box by the app and sync.

If it was downloaded via itunes on the app store then the app store remembers ever single application you have ever downloaded and will let you download it again.


----------



## editor (Mar 15, 2010)

Sunray said:


> If you have sync'd with the app on the phone then it will have been copied off the phone to the itunes\mobile applications folder.  Go to the app's section of iTunes, tick the box by the app and sync.


Nope. T'was empty, despite being synced numerous times. 

I've redownloading the apps now but have to pay for the US review ones because I can't be fucking arsed to dance to Apple's tune again.


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

*I for one welcome our new android overlords*

Android really looks to be making some good strides into the market.

http://blog.flurry.com/bid/31410/Day-74-Sales-Apple-iPhone-vs-Google-Nexus-One-vs-Motorola-Droid

It took apple 74 days to hit 1 million units. Droid did better in its first 74 days not a like for like comparison but very interesting take on the market.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

Whenever they decide to issue forth the next iphone, they are going to have to provide a higher res screen to match the competition. Over the past few weeks I've gotten used to a 480x800 one and twice today people have handed me their iphone to look at a photo or whatever and frankly it looks rubbish. All grainy and pixelly. This is not opinion - it's fact.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Whenever they decide to issue forth the next iphone, they are going to have to provide a higher res screen to match the competition. Over the past few weeks I've gotten used to a 480x800 one and twice today people have handed me their iphone to look at a photo or whatever and frankly it looks rubbish. All grainy and pixelly. This is not opinion - it's fact.



It'd have to be double in either direction as none of the apps would work properly...well they'd work but would look utterly crap as the pixel wouldn't scale exactly.

Not sure that a 640x800 screen is really necessary on a mobile that small.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> handed me their iphone to look at a photo or whatever and frankly it looks rubbish. All grainy and pixelly. This is not opinion - it's fact.



They need to improve the camera. The screen is fine.


----------



## editor (Mar 16, 2010)

Kanda said:


> They need to improve the camera. The screen is fine.


I haven't really got any issues with the screen (although a higher res OLED screen would be nice). The camera desperately needs an upgrade and a flash, but the bigger single improvement for me would be be some form of multi tasking.

Having to open and close a game, every time I want to read an email or reply to a text message is hideously 2008.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Whenever they decide to issue forth the next iphone, they are going to have to provide a higher res screen to match the competition. Over the past few weeks I've gotten used to a 480x800 one and twice today people have handed me their iphone to look at a photo or whatever and frankly it looks rubbish. All grainy and pixelly. This is not opinion - it's fact.



No, it's opinion.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 16, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> No, it's opinion.



Indeed. And no matter how they improve it, it won't be good enough for our teuchter...


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> No, it's opinion.



No, it's scientific fact.

Once I got used to a phone with iphone-like resolution, the screen on my old N95 (which had looked great a couple of years earlier when it came out) looked rubbish.

Now, I have gotten used to a higher resolution than the iphone, and the iphone display looks rubbish. As does my old phone with a similar res screen.

And anyone else will find the same, once they get used to better.

Fact.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> It'd have to be double in either direction as none of the apps would work properly...well they'd work but would look utterly crap as the pixel wouldn't scale exactly.
> .



Well - that's Apple's problem, not mine.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 16, 2010)

But if they have an iPhone and stay with an iPhone.. they won't notice any difference.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> whinge, whinge, whinge, whinge, i know best!



*yawn*


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 16, 2010)

What I'd like in order of priority:

Better battery
Multitasking
Better camera

I can wait for the last two but the first one is increasingly annoying...


----------



## editor (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> No, it's scientific fact.
> 
> Once I got used to a phone with iphone-like resolution, the screen on my old N95 (which had looked great a couple of years earlier when it came out) looked rubbish.
> 
> ...


My Sony TH55 PalmOS PDA had a higher res screen than my Treo 650, but I was more than happy to move on to the Treo.

Screen res is just one part of the experience, unless you're solely interested in viewing photos/films.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 16, 2010)

editor said:


> Screen res is just one part of the experience, unless you're solely interested in viewing photos/films.



Absolutely.

I'm not saying the screen on the iPhone is the best by any means, but it's sufficient.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

Kanda said:


> But if they have an iPhone and stay with an iPhone.. they won't notice any difference.



I fear this will hold up as a business strategy for only so long.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I fear this will hold up as a business strategy for only so long.



I'm sure if it starts to fall behind significantly, they'll do something about it.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

editor said:


> My Sony TH55 PalmOS PDA had a higher res screen than my Treo 650, but I was more than happy to move on to the Treo.



I just looked those two up and the difference is not massive (320x320 compared with 320x480)

In this case we are talking a massive difference - about three times the number of pixels on screen.

It really does make a big difference when you are looking at websites or maps.


----------



## editor (Mar 16, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I'm sure if it starts to fall behind significantly, they'll do something about it.


There's every chance that the iPhone may be usurped, just like Motorola came and went, Nokia faded and Palm nearly vanished (and may still do). 

Apple is rapidly losing the app advantage but their phone remains the slickest package in town.

Android is starting to really heat up as a platform, but the market can change quickly so I wouldn't like to predict how things will look in two years time. 

I'd hate Apple to be_ totally_ dominating because their restrictive and censorial 'walled garden' practices really aren't good for developers and consumer choice.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> No, it's scientific fact.
> 
> Once I got used to a phone with iphone-like resolution, the screen on my old N95 (which had looked great a couple of years earlier when it came out) looked rubbish.
> 
> ...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> No, it's scientific fact.
> 
> Once I got used to a phone with iphone-like resolution, the screen on my old N95 (which had looked great a couple of years earlier when it came out) looked rubbish.
> 
> ...



I think you need to relearn the concept of 'fact'. Yes, it's a fact that certain devices have a higher res screen than the iPhone, but the iPhone having a "grainy and rubbish screen" is in no way fact. It is opinion.

Crikey 

Oh, and btw, I went from a Touch HD to an iPhone and barely noticed a difference.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

For those who refuse to accept that [what teuchter says] = [scientific fact]







iPhone










Current competitors


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Oh, and btw, I went from a Touch HD to an iPhone and barely noticed a difference.



Maybe you don't have very good eyesight.

I can accept that for older people and others with bad eyesight, the iphone res may well be perfectly sufficient.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 16, 2010)

iPhones have more genes in common with crabs than they do with you or me.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Maybe you don't have very good eyesight.
> 
> I can accept that for older people and others with bad eyesight, the iphone res may well be perfectly sufficient.





You're just trolling now, you silly sausage.

And re: the images above, compress them to the size of the iPhone screen, and the lower res one will be perfectly legible.


----------



## Pie 1 (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Maybe you don't have very good eyesight.
> 
> I can accept that for older people and others with bad eyesight, the iphone res may well be perfectly sufficient.



You are 100% talking out of your arse again. 
Which just makes you look like one.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> You're just trolling now, you silly sausage.
> 
> And re: the images above, compress them to the size of the iPhone screen, and the lower res one will be perfectly legible.



They will be equally legible but only because they are viewed on your computer screen which has a lower pixels per inch density than a phone screen. 

Fairer would be to stand back from your computer monitor.

About 50cm away from my monitor gives a similar field of view as holding my phone about 10cm in front of me.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> What I'd like in order of priority:
> 
> Better battery
> Multitasking
> ...



Pretty much my thoughts too. Now carry a clip on battery thingy if I am doing a longer journey. Also have charge cables at home, in office and in bag. 

Multi-tasking is a pain.

Camera bothers me less. I use the phone camera for fun and reference. If I want a decent pic then a camera always beats a phone.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 16, 2010)

Ed, OLED screens are fine until you go outside and then you pretty much can't see them.  Samsung have improved it of recent times with their Super AMOLED. 

Check out this demo showing how bad OLED's are outdoors.


Here is the Super AMOLED display, looks a lot better than I thought.  Still only released in Jan so would have to be iPhone 5 before it was included.


----------



## editor (Mar 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Ed, OLED screens are fine until you go outside and then you pretty much can't see them.  Samsung have improved it of recent times with their Super AMOLED. Only 20% better though, so compared to the Apple screen which is transflective its going to lose in direct sunlight every time.
> 
> Check out this demo showing how bad OLED's are outdoors.


Things have moved on - Samsung's OLED screen looks just fine in this video:


----------



## Kanda (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> For those who refuse to accept that [what teuchter says] = [scientific fact]
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm looking at the Verbier app right now and it's clear as a really clear thing, not like that 1st pic you posted


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I'm looking at the Verbier app right now and it's clear as a really clear thing, not like that 1st pic you posted



I think you are failing to grasp the technical aspects of the point I am illustrating here.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

Once they announce a new iPhone with higher res screen, of course, you will all be falling over yourselves saying what a revolutionary improvement it is. At that point I will quote this post for reference.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I think you are failing to grasp the technical aspects of the point I am illustrating here.



No, I'm not. 

I'm looking at a ski map and it's clear. Whatever the technical aspects are, my ski map isn't blurry at all, I look at an iPhone every day and it's not blurry (unless it's a crap pic). Of course two different resolution pics are going to look different on screen.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Once they announce a new iPhone with higher res screen, of course, you will all be falling over yourselves saying what a revolutionary improvement it is. At that point I will quote this post for reference.



They'll upgrade it at some point, I've said that up there ^^ 

Still, it isn't blurry to look at. I have perfect eyesight with my specs too


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

Kanda said:


> No, I'm not.
> 
> I'm looking at a ski map and it's clear. Whatever the technical aspects are, my ski map isn't blurry at all, I look at an iPhone every day and it's not blurry (unless it's a crap pic). Of course two different resolution pics are going to look different on screen.



But in order to see it clearly, you will have to look at a smaller portion of the piste map. Which means more panning and scrolling and zooming. Which would be a pain if you are on a ski slope with gloves on. 

With the higher res screen you can look at nearly 3 times the area of piste map at the same time, and still be able to read the text clearly, etc.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

Kanda said:


> They'll upgrade it at some point, I've said that up there ^^



Then we are in agreement. All I said originally was that Apple are going to have to sort it out soon to keep up with the competition.


----------



## editor (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> With the higher res screen you can look at nearly 3 times the area of piste map at the same time, and still be able to read the text clearly, etc.


It'll be _mighty small_ if you're sereing "three times" as much of the map on a screen that's barely any bigger in physical size.

And that's a FACT.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> But in order to see it clearly, you will have to look at a smaller portion of the piste map. Which means more panning and scrolling and zooming. Which would be a pain if you are on a ski slope with gloves on.
> 
> With the higher res screen you can look at nearly 3 times the area of piste map at the same time, and still be able to read the text clearly, etc.



Maybe, but I.don't.care 

You're running a comparison saying, I've got this screen and that old screen is shite... 

My old 32" LED TV looked great, always. My new 46" one looks better. It didn't bother me having the 32" though, there was never an issue.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Then we are in agreement. All I said originally was that Apple are going to have to sort it out soon to keep up with the competition.



No, you said the iPhone was blurry and shit. I disagreed. I then said if it becomes an issue, of course Apple will change it. Selective reading?


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

editor said:


> It'll be _mighty small_ if you're sereing "three times" as much of the map on a screen that's barely any bigger in physical size.
> 
> And that's a FACT.



Yes, smaller than I might have thought practical.

About 0.6mm capital 'M' height, crudely measured with my ruler, and perfectly legible about 20-30cm from my eyes.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

Kanda said:


> No, you said the iPhone was blurry and shit. I disagreed.



Grainy and pixelated. Relative to the competition.


----------



## Kanda (Mar 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Grainy and pixelated. Relative to the competition.



With pictures more than likely taken from the camera on the iPhone.. as I pointed out earlier.

Geezus this is dull, I really do hope they do do something about stupid trolling. It's fucking boring. You have fuck all interest in Apple or iPhones apart from to say how shit they are compared to everything else you point out.


----------



## magneze (Mar 16, 2010)

editor said:


> There's every chance that the iPhone may be usurped, just like Motorola came and went, Nokia faded and Palm nearly vanished (and may still do).
> 
> Apple is rapidly losing the app advantage but their phone remains the slickest package in town.
> 
> ...


Yep, open platforms always do better than closed ones so I'd expect Android to dominate in a few years.

However, Apple have proved that relatively closed platforms like the Mac can work for them - maybe the iPhone will be the same.


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

magneze said:


> I'd expect Android to dominate in a few years.



Same here, I've literally put money on it that it will.

Oh and there is no comparison between the OLED 800x420 (or whatever it is) and a iphone display. Right now, iPhone is way behind the competition however of course that can all change with the next product revision.

However I will admit using my Nexus One in direct sunlight is a bit irritating, but a very satisfactory trade-off.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 16, 2010)

I would have to disagree with the walled garden being bad for developers, its only bad for developers that get their app rejected or pulled.  

The App store has provided a good income for developers that had their apps approved because its kept piracy down to low levels. 

Open platforms do not have the level of piracy control that the App store does and this has fostered innovation because it means that developers can make money from creating new applications.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 16, 2010)

magneze said:


> Yep, open platforms always do better than closed ones so I'd expect Android to dominate in a few years.
> 
> However, Apple have proved that relatively closed platforms like the Mac can work for them - maybe the iPhone will be the same.



Mac is a totally open platform.  Its OS is a Unix derivative.


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Mac is a totally open platform.



This may be an issue with the exact wording being used, but in the usual sense of people describing an open platform, mac certainly doesn't fit into it.

ETA: being based on *nix has no bearing on if its open.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 16, 2010)

Android might dominate in sales like Nokia still does, but in quality? 

Apple will dominate the quality segment because they got there 1st and have the App's to back it up.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 16, 2010)

magneze said:


> Yep, open platforms always do better than closed ones so I'd expect Android to dominate in a few years.
> 
> However, Apple have proved that relatively closed platforms like the Mac can work for them - maybe the iPhone will be the same.



Indeed as more and more phones sold are smartphones then I can see Android taking the lions share of the market.

However Apple don't need to dominate the market to do well for themselves, Macs make up a small percentage of total PC sales, but they do very well for themselves as a premium product.


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Android might dominate in sales like Nokia still does, but in quality?
> 
> Apple will dominate the quality segment because they got there 1st and have the App's to back it up.



The Android based droid from moto performed better than the iphone did in the first 74 days of sales. Android 2.1 is very polished and is as slick as iPhone OS.

They will dominate because they got there first? WTF? If it worked that way we would all still be on myspace.

Thats not to say that iPhone wont be relevant it will. What I see happening is the market really being split between the two and then small time people like symbian and palm fighting over the left overs.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 16, 2010)

Open platforms patently do not intrinsically do better than closed platforms.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 16, 2010)

grit said:


> This may be an issue with the exact wording being used, but in the usual sense of people describing an open platform, mac certainly doesn't fit into it.
> 
> ETA: being based on *nix has no bearing on if its open.



There is nothing to prevent you developing a Mac application.

Open source is just a licensing issue, so in the context of iPhone v Mac the Mac is an open platform.

Remember that Apple are contributing developers of WebKit and have opened sourced all of what they have contributed.

OSX would be hard to Open Source as it contains a stack of patented code.


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> There is nothing to prevent you developing a Mac application.
> 
> Open source is just a licensing issue, so in the context of iPhone v Mac the Mac is an open platform.
> 
> ...



LOL being able to write an application for it doesnt make it an open platform ffs. OSX wont be open sourced because its a revenue generating product and its not in Apple's interest to do it.


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Open platforms patently do not intrinsically do better than closed platforms.



Very true, but it is an advantage when trying to take on a proprietary competitor.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 16, 2010)

grit said:


> The Android based droid from moto performed better than the iphone did in the first 74 days of sales. Android 2.1 is very polished and is as slick as iPhone OS.
> 
> They will dominate because they got there first? WTF? If it worked that way we would all still be on myspace.
> 
> Thats not to say that iPhone wont be relevant it will. What I see happening is the market really being split between the two and then small time people like symbian and palm fighting over the left overs.



Myspace is shit, so that was hard to usurp.

100,000+ applications are there for all to see and in that are some pretty damn good ones to boot.  

I've been playing GTA:China Town Wars on my iPhone what have you been playing?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 16, 2010)

grit said:


> Very true, but it is an advantage when trying to take on a proprietary competitor.



It's an advantage if you can make use of that advantage in some way. It's not an advantage in itself, at all. It has to be part of a strategy.


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Myspace is shit, so that was hard to usurp.
> 
> 100,000+ applications are there for all to see and in that are some pretty damn good ones to boot.
> 
> I've been playing GTA:China Town Wars on my iPhone what have you been playing?



So because it has 100k apps it has to be good? logic fail. I was a happy iPhone 3g user for 2 years but have to admit downloaded fuck all applications. Mainly becuase looking at the app store it seemed that half the stuff was fluff crap such as fart sound apps and making the phone look like a pint etc.

I dont have any interest in playing games on a portable device, I play a few hours of TF2 a week on my desktop and thats all the time I want to spend with games.


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's an advantage if you can make use of that advantage in some way. It's not an advantage in itself, at all. It has to be part of a strategy.



Yeah thats what I meant sorry if it wasnt clear.


----------



## editor (Mar 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> 100,000+ applications are there for all to see and in that are some pretty damn good ones to boot.
> 
> I've been playing GTA:China Town Wars on my iPhone what have you been playing?


Give it a few months and most of the big hitting games and apps will be available on multiple plartforms - not least the Palm webOS, seeing as it apparently only takes a "couple of days" to port over even quite complicated games. 

The 100k figure may be impressive, but in reality you're looking at vast amounts of duplicate apps offering near-identical functionality, heaps of unrated and quite probably pointless games, and a loads of of fluff barely worth the effort of a download, completely dwarfing the genuinely useful apps (and boy, I've looked!).


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2010)

Kanda said:


> With pictures more than likely taken from the camera on the iPhone.. as I pointed out earlier.



It was when looking at a ski app on a workmate's phone that I noticed the difference. That's why I chose a piste map as an example.

It's just an observation.

And, if you look at nearly all of the phones currently being pitched in the same price bracket as the iphone, it's noticeable that on nearly all of them the screen resolution is quite a lot higher.

Again, just an observation. 

It presents a particular issue for apple, perhaps, because one of their strengths has been to focus on gradual upgrade of software etc, whilst keeping the basic hardware like the screen the same, so that apps and whatnot don't have to be rewritten for new devices (which makes a lot of sense).


----------



## magneze (Mar 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Mac is a totally open platform.  Its OS is a Unix derivative.


OSX only runs on Apple hardware, which falls outside my definition of open.


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

editor said:


> Give it a few months and most of the big hitting games and apps will be available on multiple plartforms - not least the Palm webOS, seeing as it only takes a "couple of days" to post over even quite complicated games.
> 
> The 100k figure may be impressive, but in reality you're looking at vast amounts of duplicate apps offering near-identical functionality, heaps of unrated and quite probably pointless games, and a loads of of fluff barely worth the effort of a download, completely dwarfing the genuinely useful apps (and boy, I've looked!).



The unthinkable has happened Editor, I'm agreeing with you 

Seriously though, I think its possible that the mobile OS wars will emulate their desktop equivalents a bit considering they are essentially an extension of them. In the personal computer market apple's tech is certainly not the most powerful, it does however provide an extremely slick interface to the user. Thats what a section of the market wants, great, fair play to them.

On the other hand for people who are willing to do a bit more work they go with Windows and Linux. Both platforms have their strengths and weaknesses. We all want different things from our consumer electronics and the market adjusts to address those different needs. For me as a hardcore nerd, I want the control and power the Android platform offers. I'm prepared to trade other parts of the user experience to get that.

Right now the iPhone *hardware* looks dated compared to other devices.


----------



## editor (Mar 16, 2010)

grit said:


> Right now the iPhone *hardware* looks dated compared to other devices.


The OS looks dated too when it's compared to the Palm's.


----------



## magneze (Mar 16, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's an advantage if you can make use of that advantage in some way. It's not an advantage in itself, at all. It has to be part of a strategy.


Yes, true. But you get far more developers onside eventually when they realise that they can write once and run in many places. But, you do have to build that relationship - simply being open isn't enough.


----------



## magneze (Mar 16, 2010)

Maybe HTML5 will kill off iPhone apps and Android apps!


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

magneze said:


> But, you do have to build that relationship - simply being open isn't enough.



Its trivial enough to provide developers with what we need. I was writing a Android application after about an hour reading http://developer.android.com/index.html


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 16, 2010)

I can - and have - written Qt desktop applications before, very simply, much easier than writing Mac or Windows apps. They made no difference to anything.


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

magneze said:


> Maybe HTML5 will kill off iPhone apps and Android apps!



Thats what a lot of people are thinking, I used to share the same view now I'm not so sure. The technology that powers web sites is a fucking horrible hack job and the industry reflects that.

Personally I see it as the mobile market will settle with lets say about 3 major platform that covers all the phones out there. The very few it doesn't, you don't want them as customers anyway they are not your target. Targeting 3 platforms is fine a lot of software developers are used to it. Its standard in a lot of enterprise applications (thanks to Java) that applications can be run on Windows or Linux.


----------



## grit (Mar 16, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I can - and have - written Qt desktop applications before, very simply, much easier than writing Mac or Windows apps. They made no difference to anything.



I dont understand what you are trying to illustrate.?


----------



## elbows (Mar 16, 2010)

Im a big fan of html5 as well as having fairly high expectations for what will be achieved with it in the years to come. However it wont match native apps in certain areas and I dont see the number of platforms being developed for declining by epic proportions, although the game will eventually change in ways Im not entirely sure of right now.

Ive said before that I expect flash to be harmed by HTML5, CSS3 and webGL, to quite a large extent on the web in general, but there are still plenty of problems that Adobe can position flash to solve, and plenty of flash developers so its not going to suddenly vanish.

Im certainly looking forward to seeing how good webapps can get in the next few years, especially with multitouch. If things like the ipad take off and multitouch is exposed to webapps via javascript nicely in some sort of way that is at least similar across devices, then its certainly possible that webapps could get a boost by being a nice way to harness multitouch across platforms, but there will no doubt be some devil in the detail and who knows how good the alternatives may get at harnessing multitouch. Apple patent battles may thwart some of the possibilities, I cant tell yet.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2010)

magneze said:


> OSX only runs on Apple hardware, which falls outside my definition of open.



Thats a meaningless definition, it runs on quite a few platforms if you want it to, including VMWare.  

Many linux variants don't run on a shit load of modern hardware because they don't have the drivers. Using your logic, does that make then closed?


----------



## grit (Mar 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Thats a meaningless definition, it runs on quite a few platforms if you want it to, including VMWare.
> 
> Many linux variants don't run on a shit load of modern hardware because they don't have the drivers. Using your logic, does that make then closed?



No the difference is that the EULA requires OSX to be run on Apple branded hardware, thats what makes it closed (along with no source).


----------



## magneze (Mar 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Thats a meaningless definition, it runs on quite a few platforms if you want it to, including VMWare.
> 
> Many linux variants don't run on a shit load of modern hardware because they don't have the drivers. Using your logic, does that make then closed?


That's a bit of a bizarre assertion. I can't take an OSX ISO and install it on just anything - I would have massively hack about with it. With Linux, and even to some extent Windows I can just install and run, even on a Mac ... and of course the license that grit mentions.


----------



## g force (Mar 17, 2010)

editor said:


> The OS looks dated too when it's compared to the Palm's.



Shame the Pre comes across as a beta device, not a working phone. The two we tested at work - one the slider stopped working, the other the keypad broke. After a month. Palm repaired them and then the touch screen broke.

Needless to say we're all still using BlackBerry's as work phones.

Anyhow as a BB and iPhone user i'd say while the BB has a far superior email capabilities (surprise!) the iPhone's messaging is much better and the web browser hugely better. The BB is utter crap for web surfing which a lot of business and consumer users want.

I'm also a fan of a physical QWERTY but TBH the touch only offered by the iPhone is no big deal.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2010)

grit said:


> No the difference is that the EULA requires OSX to be run on Apple branded hardware, thats what makes it closed (along with no source).



never mind


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

So, clicking on the trash can icon while looking at mail on my iPhone no longer has any effect - I can only delete mails by swiping in the overall mail box view.,
Anyone else get this?


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I would have to disagree with the walled garden being bad for developers, its only bad for developers that get their app rejected or pulled.


What? How much worse can it get for a developer than having the only point of sale for their app being arbitrarily pulled after they'd given $99 to Apple and gone through the approval process, as required?

For some, that's their sole source of income removed at Apple's whim, often without explanation or recourse.


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2010)

Cerrtainly I dont think you will get many developers who are happy about that. the iphone platform creates new opportunities and new risks, so its a mixed bag that will end up worth it for some developers and not others.

I think the extent to which Apple offers 'no explanation' to affected developers is often exagurated, there is no doubt they've sometimes handled the pulling or non-approval of apps in a bad way that made things worse, but an explanation is often forthcoming in the end, and Apple have responded to some of the flaws in the way they've done this stuff in the past. There are still some ambiguities and clearly its very bad when they change their minds about something with no notice, so Im not going to go too far in my defence of Apple, but sometimes the developers are not faultless.


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

elbows said:


> I think the extent to which Apple offers 'no explanation' to affected developers is often exagurated, there is no doubt they've sometimes handled the pulling or non-approval of apps in a bad way that made things worse, but an explanation is often forthcoming in the end...


Here's how it works out: Apps with tits and bums suddenly became very offensive and had to be instantly pulled off the AppStore, but tits and bums apps from their corporate pals like Playboy are just fine and can stay as long as they like! 

http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-adult-app-censorship-apples-unconvincing-explanation/


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2010)

editor said:


> What? How much worse can it get for a developer than having the only point of sale for their app being arbitrarily pulled after they'd given $99 to Apple and gone through the approval process, as required?
> 
> For some, that's their sole source of income removed at Apple's whim, often without explanation or recourse.



You totally ignore my point on piracy and are agreeing with me then?  

You are saying its bad for developers?  But if it was really bad why are there so many applications for the iPhone?   Surely if it was such a nightmare there wouldn't be so many and people would be saying 'don't go there', actually its only the developers that have an axe to grind that have a problem.

The moral standpoint is a product of the location of Apple.  Its cultural to the US and its very weird, but that's the way they are.  I can always buy another phone or Jail Break the one I have.


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> You are saying its bad for developers?  But if it was really bad why are there so many applications for the iPhone?   Surely if it was such a nightmare there wouldn't be so many and people would be saying 'don't go there', actually its only the developers that have an axe to grind that have a problem..


I'm sure it's great for developers creating nice, family safe, non-political apps, but if you think a Disney-fied walled garden is the best way forward, then I'm afraid I'm not going to agree with you. 

As for piracy, I can't say I've heard of Palm''s far more open app distribution model wreaking havoc with developers, or Android developers suffering terribly, so what's so good about Apple's control-freakery?


----------



## grit (Mar 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> You are saying its bad for developers?  But if it was really bad why are there so many applications for the iPhone?   Surely if it was such a nightmare there wouldn't be so many and people would be saying 'don't go there', actually its only the developers that have an axe to grind that have a problem.



Your confusing correlation with causation.


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2010)

editor said:


> Here's how it works out: Apps with tits and bums suddenly became very offensive and had to be instantly pulled off the AppStore, but tits and bums apps from their corporate pals like Playboy are just fine and can stay as long as they like!
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/iphone-adult-app-censorship-apples-unconvincing-explanation/



Yes thats one of the most compelling examples of Apples app store control being handled in a pretty ugly way. I said at the time that it was more about Apples desire to control the image of their app store than anything else, as well as the sheer volume of smutty apps that they had previous approved even when said apps were lurking in inappropriate categories on the store.

There are one or two possible end user benefits from Apple controlling the store but also plenty of severe downsides which have been discussed here a lot. I would be happier if there were alternative means of app distribution for users that didnt want to be nannied, and could be used without having to jailbreak the whole os, but clearly thats not on the horizon for the foreseeable.


----------



## WWWeed (Mar 17, 2010)

those guys at Electronic Frontier Foundation have got a copy of apples developer agreement: http://www.eff.org/files/20100302_iphone_dev_agr.pdf 

So you guys can now make decisions based on fact not opinion. 

For example:


> You may not issue any press releases or make any other public statements regarding this Agreement, its terms and conditions, or the relationship of the parties without Apple's express prior written approval, which may be withheld at Apple's discretion.



Then there's the fact that a developer cannot "disable, hack, or otherwise interfere with" not just the iPhone OS and SDK, but also "any services or other Apple software or technology" - which precludes, as the EFF points out, efforts to enable Apple devices to interoperate with open source software.

But wait, there's more. In the Agreement's "Limitation of Liability" section, Apple states that it can never be held liable for damages - other than those involving personal injury - that "exceed the amount of fifty dollars". In other words, if the App Store police decide to axe your app for any reason, all damages resulting from your loss of development, marketing, and other expenses can't amount to more than what the EFF calls "the cost of a nice dinner for one in Cupertino".

It's no news that the iPhone, the iPod touch, and the forthcoming iPad are closed systems. Reading the Agreement reveals just how closed those systems are, and just how committed how Apple is to reversing decades of developers' abilities to publish and market applications as they see fit - not to mention the user's right to load whatever software they want onto devices they have purchased.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 17, 2010)

I was sitting on the tube between two guys with blackberries this afternoon. They were both playing a solitaire game that looked like it was from the Palm M515. I was playing Civilization Revolution


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

The iPhone does big, glossy games well, but I certainly I prefer the ancient Palm versions of Solitaire and Scrabble to the all-fluff and fiddly iPhone versions.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 17, 2010)

I have a really good solitaire for the iPhone actually, it was the first app I ever paid money for. It's proper old school.


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I have a really good solitaire for the iPhone actually, it was the first app I ever paid money for. It's proper old school.


It's easier to play using a stylus though, Same as Solitaire.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm sure it's great for developers creating nice, family safe, non-political apps, but if you think a Disney-fied walled garden is the best way forward, then I'm afraid I'm not going to agree with you.
> 
> As for piracy, I can't say I've heard of Palm''s far more open app distribution model wreaking havoc with developers, or Android developers suffering terribly, so what's so good about Apple's control-freakery?



I've never said any such thing.  I just point out that the walled garden approach hasn't hampered development of applications or even bad for developers apart from the ones that Apples policy effects.  

This is also true of Microsoft with their Live Arcade on the XBox for indie developers and of Nintendo for their version of the same.  Its not a new process or that interesting to me.  If this was the only computer on the planet then I can see the issues.

http://blog.tehone.com/2007/03/xbox-live-arcade-approval-process.html

I see Safari as a good tool for political discussion and porn and just about everything else.  The web is still there and unfettered by Apple.  

Don't need an App for everything.

Computers are nothing without software to run on them and the iPhone I now akin to the IBM PC all those years ago. There is a lot of parallels to be drawn and I think it could go down similar roads.  The hardware has pretty much converged.  The differences between the touch phones has narrowed to next to nothing.  Its all about the software.

Manufacturers will eventually get iPhone apps to run on their phones, native.  If I was Samsung or Nokia, I'd have already started if they have any sense.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 17, 2010)

editor said:


> It's easier to play using a stylus though, Same as Solitaire.



You want one of those Korean sausages.

People do make iPhone styluses actually but I've never tried one. Might get one for the iPad.


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Manufacturers will eventually get iPhone apps to run on their phones, native.  If I was Samsung or Nokia, I'd have already started if they have any sense.



Why would they do that? For a start it is extremely unlikely that they could emulate the iphone without getting in a lot of legal trouble, and as Apple control both the development and distribution of iphone apps its even harder from a technical point of view and makes little sense from a business standpoint - all of these problems hugely outweigh any additional handset sales they would get from tapping into the iphones apps, and it would also be sending out the wrong message by conceding that the apple iphone os platform is desirable.


----------



## grit (Mar 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Manufacturers will eventually get iPhone apps to run on their phones, native.



Never in a million years.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 17, 2010)

You'd have a fucker of a job reverse-engineering iPhone OS even _without_ the guaranteed legal shenanigans.


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I've never said any such thing.  I just point out that the walled garden approach hasn't hampered development of applications or even bad for developers apart from the ones that Apples policy effects.


It's just about _totally_ scuppered any development in areas that Apple doesn't approve of. Like Google Voice, for example.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You'd have a fucker of a job reverse-engineering iPhone OS even _without_ the guaranteed legal shenanigans.



Who said anything about reverse engineering anything.   Any app interacts with the OS with set API's.  Just have to do some clever mapping of the calls made in the app to the native OS.  Its been done with WINE for Linux, much harder to do on that than an iPhone app which I suggest never gets anything like the complexity of Windows applications such as WoW or office.  Apple don't own those Applications do they.

The reason why, like the old IBM PC of yore, it has a huge installed application base that they can take advantage.   Developers don't have to target 5000 different platforms, just the one and can then sell to all  phones.  Makes perfect sense to me.  

Its why the IBM PC became the standard and everyone made PC compatibles that were heavily touted as 100% compatible at the time. I wonder if my PC if booted on PC-DOS 1.0 would still run 1981 software?


----------



## Sunray (Mar 17, 2010)

editor said:


> It's just about _totally_ scuppered any development in areas that Apple doesn't approve of. Like Google Voice, for example.



Why?  Why would Google stop working on an app just because Apple don't approve it.  

There are plenty of other platforms to target including their own.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Who said anything about reverse engineering anything.   Any app interacts with the OS with set API's.  Just have to do some clever mapping of the calls made in the app to the native OS.



That *is* reverse engineering!


----------



## grit (Mar 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Why?  Why would Google stop working on an app just because Apple don't approve it.
> 
> There are plenty of other platforms to target including their own.



The language iPhone apps are written in cant be run on any other platform without being ported first. It would be a senseless waste of resources. Google voice is on Android.


----------



## magneze (Mar 17, 2010)

Android, Windows 7 Mobile and Symbian are the ones if you want to develop cross-platform. If there was nothing else about then iPhone OS would be an attractive option, but with 3 mature cross platform operating systems to choose from why would any developer go for iPhone in the hope that another manufacturer would release something compatible?


----------



## editor (Mar 17, 2010)

grit said:


> The language iPhone apps are written in cant be run on any other platform without being ported first. It would be a senseless waste of resources. Google voice is on Android.


It's on the Palm too. 

It's an interesting - some may save revolutionary - technology, but Apple may damage its chances of gaining truly widespread adoption because of their idiotic, all-controlling arsery. 



> *Google Voice: Flawed but still awesome*
> 
> Google's new Google Voice has a few rough edges but for many users, it could be a life-changing experience.
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Mar 17, 2010)

magneze said:


> Android, Windows 7 Mobile and Symbian are the ones if you want to develop cross-platform. If there was nothing else about then iPhone OS would be an attractive option, but with 3 mature cross platform operating systems to choose from why would any developer go for iPhone in the hope that another manufacturer would release something compatible?



No developer would go for it based on that hope, sunray is barking up the wrong tree.

Developers go for it if they happen to like the iphone or if they like the looks of the large customer base who are proven to buy apps on a large scale. I consider iphone development to have higher potential risk and higher potential reward at this stage. The success or failure of the ipad will make a difference too.

The other platforms you mention being available on numerous different handsets is only good for developers if it yields a larger potential customer base, and in some senses it makes development more of a pain when you have to cater to wider range of hardware. 

For developers looking to write an app once and have it work on multiple platforms, development tools which can compile apps to run on more than one platform is a likely way forward, subject to some devilish details. This approach has some similarities to what Adobe have done to try to give flash developers a way to harness the iphone, with tools to enable flash apps to be compiled to iphone native format.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 18, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That *is* reverse engineering!



Reverse engineering is where you look at the iPhones >code< and work out from the code what it is doing and then make your own code that does the same. Reverse engineering is actually protected in the US under free speech  legislation.  The DCMA is specifically for DRM reverse engineering.

Taking the published API and translating it so it uses your API analyses no code at all, its just using the published documentation for the API.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 18, 2010)

elbows said:


> No developer would go for it based on that hope, sunray is barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> Developers go for it if they happen to like the iphone or if they like the looks of the large customer base who are proven to buy apps on a large scale. I consider iphone development to have higher potential risk and higher potential reward at this stage. The success or failure of the ipad will make a difference too.
> 
> ...



I can't imagine that the tools for iPhone and say the Samsung are even the same language, screen ratio, UI library elements, input methods etc etc. 

Its a list so vast that cross platform development would be so painful nobody would want to do it. Look at app development till the iPhone's single hardware platform arrived, total mess.  I already see Android going that route due to netbooks, different input methods, different screen sizes and even new UI's (Motorola's blur interface for Android).

Remember that if you have a product that has say 10 features and you would like to grow its feature set, getting it working on multiple platforms is going to cost you to do, just implementing say an extra 3 features on all your supported platforms would take the same work as perhaps implementing 20 new features on an iPhone.  

Developers aren't waiting, they appear to be queuing up to write applications for the iPhone.  If other phones make it so they can run their apps, mores the better.

Standards are a useful thing

http://www.ansi.org/consumer_affairs/history_standards.aspx?menuid=5


----------



## elbows (Mar 18, 2010)

Standards are not made by directly emulating stuff and getting in legal trouble.

How you can draw attention to all the complexities of developing for different handsets whilst at the same time thinking that emulation is more plausible is beyond me. I mean I can grasp what problem you think it will solve, but the problems it creates are greater than the original problem in my opinion.

You are right that developers arent waiting, but they arent expecting their iphone apps to start magically working on other phones either. Some of them are making their iphone apps work on other platforms by doing it the old-fashioned way. In many cases its worth their effort if the platforms in question actually have a lot of users buying apps, and thats still a bit of an issue right now, app sales on some platforms have been disappointing compared to iphone sales, so less return on investment.

Anyway the emulation idea wont work because Apple can prevent any attempts to make itunes load apps onto non-iphone devices. And if developers tried to distribute their iphone apps via other (non appstore) channels in order for non-iphone users to use them, they would get in trouble with Apple.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2010)

Good standards don't usually need to be defended by armies of lawyers, and used to crush competition.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 18, 2010)

editor said:


> Good standards don't usually need to be defended by armies of lawyers, and used to crush competition.





elbows said:


> Standards are not made by directly emulating stuff and getting in legal trouble.



The IBM PC's wasn't exactly an ISO standard.  Just got their 1st with a big name brand and sold stacks and so all the software got developed for that machine.  

The BIOS had to be reversed engineered in a clean and legal way for clones to be 100% compatible. 

Are you seeing the parallels?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 18, 2010)

IBM PC BIOS = 8kb
iPhone OS = 250MB

Are you seeing the difference?


----------



## Sunray (Mar 18, 2010)

Crispy said:


> IBM PC BIOS = 8kb
> iPhone OS = 250MB
> 
> Are you seeing the difference?



That would imply you were to reverse engineer it. Who said anything about reverse engineering anything I certainly didn't.  Just use the published API documentation.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 18, 2010)

I can't believe you think it would be that simple!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 18, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Reverse engineering is where you look at the iPhones >code< and work out from the code what it is doing and then make your own code that does the same. Reverse engineering is actually protected in the US under free speech  legislation.  The DCMA is specifically for DRM reverse engineering.
> 
> Taking the published API and translating it so it uses your API analyses no code at all, its just using the published documentation for the API.



Reverse engineering doesn't have to involve looking at code, you can reverse-engineer a black box.

But anyway, whatever we want to call it, I think it can be reasonably said that it would be a big job.


----------



## grit (Mar 18, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I can't imagine that the tools for iPhone and say the Samsung are even the same language, screen ratio, UI library elements, input methods etc etc.
> 
> Its a list so vast that cross platform development would be so painful nobody would want to do it. Look at app development till the iPhone's single hardware platform arrived, total mess.  I already see Android going that route due to netbooks, different input methods, different screen sizes and even new UI's (Motorola's blur interface for Android).
> 
> ...



1. Apple will in no way allow fucking anyone to run their byte code.  I'm not even going to say why because it should be obvious.

2.Android's fragmentation has (thank fuck) not affected the implementation across a broad amount of devices. 

3. We are looking at 2-3 major platforms for applications Android iPhone and TBA (prob win7mob). I cant see Palm recovering from the fail the pre was (commercially Editor, calm down 

I'm a mobile developer and I along with many other developers are literally betting money (through business decisions) that we need to target android and iphone and we await the third. It should be noted that targeting these 2-3 platforms is a fucking huge improvement over the state the industry was in, in 2007.

Also its not to say that iPhone couldnt be reverse engineered, but you would be crushed so fucking fast by the Apple legal team it would make it irrelevant.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2010)

Palm's UK launch has been a hideous flop - I've ranted about it here - but in the US the brand is far more successful (albeit wobbling a tad).

Apple's relentless legal team wouldn't let anyone re-engineer _anything_ of theirs, so this seems a bit of a pointless piece of speculation.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 18, 2010)

editor said:


> Palm's UK launch has been a hideous flop - I've ranted about it here - but in the US the brand is far more successful (albeit wobbling a tad).



I have to say that pretty much all the people I know who talk/blog/etc about phones they're using or developing for are either on iPhone or Android. I've seen more about the N900 than Palm. In fact I can't think of the last time I saw anything about Palm.

Android mentioned are going up noticeably.


----------



## ovaltina (Mar 18, 2010)

magneze said:


> Android, Windows 7 Mobile and Symbian are the ones if you want to develop cross-platform. If there was nothing else about then iPhone OS would be an attractive option, but with 3 mature cross platform operating systems to choose from why would any developer go for iPhone in the hope that another manufacturer would release something compatible?



I'm just getting my head around Symbian. Having only got a phone with a colour screen a couple of years ago it's a bit of a head-zap having a this little portable computer that can do all sorts of clever things like run Skype and Google Search in the background, auto-sync with my email every 15 minutes and lots more that I don't really understand yet.

Bf has just got an HTC Hero and we're both a bit baffled by it, but given time I reckon it'll turn out to be a great phone with potential for growth and development as new apps and better firmware arrive. The Hero's being heavily touted by Three at the moment - £22 pcm on contract adverts in their shop windows - so I reckon there will be a big UK customer base for Android apps within a few months.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2010)

Yep. Android's going to get better and better, offer a wider range of handsets and serve up more or less the same suite of apps as the iPhone - and it'll be considerably cheaper and (huzzah!) not be burdened by Apple-style app censorship.

It hasn't got the 'sex' appeal of the iPhone yet, but there's some great phones coming up.

All win!


----------



## Gromit (Mar 18, 2010)

Out of interest I just a quick look at my iPhone reciepts. 

Since November 2007 I have bought through iTunes. 

£41.03 of apps
£36.15 of music. 

If I moved to a new platform I could probably export the music somehow (hoping that the digital manangement doesn't screw me.) but the aps I'd have to repurchase. Would it be worth moving or not?


----------



## grit (Mar 18, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Out of interest I just a quick look at my iPhone reciepts.
> 
> Since November 2007 I have bought through iTunes.
> 
> ...



in 3 years your spent under 80 quid? Hardly seems like a show stopper. No gurantee that the exact apps you use on iPhone will have Android ports either. Of course they will prob have equivalents.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 18, 2010)

Looks like the dream is getting close:



> [UK] You know how it is, you wait for a bus and then three arrive at once. And while NextBuses (iTunes link), a new iPhone app by London-based developer Malcolm Barclay, doesn’t quite solve this problem, it does promise to make it easier to know when the next bus is due and even, in some instances, tell you if it’s running on time.
> 
> The app, which costs 59p, delivers departure information for 370,000 bus, coach and tram stops throughout England, Scotland and Wales to Apple’s smartphone. It gives access to a mixture of scheduled and real-time (where available) information based on the user’s location, postcode or general locality.
> 
> ...


----------



## Badgers (Mar 18, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like the dream is getting close:



Good good, we mentioned this earlier on.. 

The buses send data out so you should be able to get an accurate idea of arrival times etc.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 18, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Good good, we mentioned this earlier on..
> 
> The buses send data out so you should be able to get an accurate idea of arrival times etc.



Yep!


----------



## teuchter (Mar 18, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like the dream is getting close:



I didn't know you could already get this information from a WAP site -

nextbuses.mobi

Have just bookmarked that.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 19, 2010)

Just saw this software on the shelf in Currys. Sure there is another way of doing this but wondered if anyone has tried? I have some good tv series on DVD and can pick up new ones much cheaper on DVD than iTunes are likely to ever offer.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 19, 2010)

What is Badgers talking about?


----------



## Badgers (Mar 19, 2010)

Woops, this software


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 19, 2010)

Badgers said:
			
		

> Just saw this software on the shelf in Currys. Sure there is another way of doing this but wondered if anyone has tried? I have some good tv series on DVD and can pick up new ones much cheaper on DVD than iTunes are likely to ever offer.



Does it rip DVD to iPhone without faffing about with decrypting first?


----------



## Badgers (Mar 19, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:
			
		

> Does it rip DVD to iPhone without faffing about with decrypting first?



No idea


----------



## Badgers (Mar 20, 2010)

Just hooked up the home wi-fi and the difference in speed from 3G is great


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 20, 2010)

And it's easier on the battery...


----------



## sim667 (Mar 20, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Woops, this software



just use handbrake. its free.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 21, 2010)

sim667 said:
			
		

> just use handbrake. its free.



Any more info on this?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 21, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Any more info on this?


More info and a video showing how to use it - OS X, Windows and Linux


----------



## sim667 (Mar 21, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> More info and a video showing how to use it - OS X, Windows and Linux



^^ sorry, didnt look at the thread for a bit


----------



## Badgers (Mar 21, 2010)

Cheers guys 

Will have a play with this tomorrow.


----------



## kittyP (Mar 21, 2010)

Ok. Any help appreciated but not sure.
I have just downloaded the free google app so I can see my gmail calendar from my iPhone.
All is ok and normal apart from the calendar is in german!
My mailbox is in English but calendar in german.
Any idea how to change the language whilst not being a german speaker?
All else failing I kinda know german woman at work...


----------



## neonwilderness (Mar 22, 2010)

This page gives a different address to try - http://google.com/calendar


On a completely unrelated note, has anyone got any experience of using an external battery?  There's been a few times when I've not had access to a power supply for most of the day and have nearly ran out of power, so a bit extra would be useful at times.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 22, 2010)

kittyP said:


> Ok. Any help appreciated but not sure.
> I have just downloaded the free google app so I can see my gmail calendar from my iPhone.
> All is ok and normal apart from the calendar is in german!
> My mailbox is in English but calendar in german.
> ...


You can make the built-in calendar sync to google calendar. there's instructions on the gcal website - get your calendar up, go to help and search it


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 22, 2010)

Crispy said:
			
		

> You can make the built-in calendar sync to google calendar. there's instructions on the gcal website - get your calendar up, go to help and search it



Yep this and very useful it is too.


----------



## Structaural (Mar 22, 2010)

neonwilderness said:


> This page gives a different address to try - http://google.com/calendar
> 
> 
> On a completely unrelated note, has anyone got any experience of using an external battery?  There's been a few times when I've not had access to a power supply for most of the day and have nearly ran out of power, so a bit extra would be useful at times.



I carry one of these around, you get about 2 charges from it:

http://us.kensington.com/html/15458.html


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2010)

Styletap - the nifty program that lets you access the Palm OS catalogue of over 30,000 apps on other mobile platforms - has been released for the iPhone. 

Sadly, you'll have to jailbreak your phone to use it.


> Naturally, we would prefer to be able to offer this product through the App Store, but unfortunately this is not currently possible due to Apple's restrictive policies, and instead this version of StyleTap will run on jailbroken devices.
> 
> http://www.styletap.com/product_apple.php


----------



## Sunray (Mar 23, 2010)

In this instance 'restrictive policy' means that you can't be running applications of dubious legality on the iPhone.  Hard to argue with that.

So here we are, someones got Palm applications running on an iPhone and your all telling me that running iPhone applications on another phone is never going to happen?


----------



## grit (Mar 23, 2010)

Sunray said:


> So here we are, someones got Palm applications running on an iPhone and your all telling me that running iPhone applications on another phone is never going to happen?



No, someone has made what looks like a really shitty implementation of the very old Palm OS applications (god knows why the fuck they bothered).

Comparing that to other devices natively executing Objective-C is laughable.


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2010)

grit said:


> No, someone has made what looks like a really shitty implementation of the very old Palm OS applications (god knows why the fuck they bothered).


On what basis are you concluding that it is a "very shitty implementation" of the Palm OS please? From the specs, it seems a fairly sophisticated job, supporting cut and paste across both OSs, GPS, audio and video recording/playback and support for a “virtual memory card.”

http://www.wirefresh.com/styletap-run-thousands-of-palm-os-apps-on-your-iphone/


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2010)

Sunray said:


> In this instance 'restrictive policy' means that you can't be running applications of dubious legality on the iPhone.  Hard to argue with that.


It's only of "dubious legality" because of Apple's highly dubious developer agreements - as pointed out by the leading digital civil liberties group, EFF:


http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/03/iphone-developer-program-license-agreement-all


----------



## grit (Mar 23, 2010)

editor said:


> On what basis are you concluding that it is a "very shitty implementation" of the Palm OS please? From the specs, it seems a fairly sophisticated job, supporting cut and paste across both OSs, GPS, audio and video recording/playback and support for a “virtual memory card.”
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/styletap-run-thousands-of-palm-os-apps-on-your-iphone/



Meh, your right its a good implementation of a shitty OS. I dont like emulators they always seem to be missing that one crucial thing.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 23, 2010)

editor said:


> It's only of "dubious legality" because of Apple's highly dubious developer agreements - as pointed out by the leading digital civil liberties group, EFF:
> 
> 
> http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2010/03/iphone-developer-program-license-agreement-all



I'm not talking about the app on the OS, but the old Palm apps you could run, some of which are not actively developed or even have companies that can issue licenses.


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I'm not talking about the app on the OS, but the old Palm apps you could run, some of which are not actively developed or even have companies that can issue licenses.


I imagine the vast amount of people using this app will be former Palm users with valid licences for their programs. 

Most commercial Palm apps wont work without a valid licence, so I'm not really sure what your point is, anyway.


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2010)

I am getting so fucking fed up with iTunes.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 24, 2010)

editor said:


> I am getting so fucking fed up with iTunes.



Never seen that before. It really does look like your phone is a duffer.

I keep telling you to take it back to the Apple shop.  Keep ignoring me, its not like its even hard to get to for you.  

I was speaking to them and if you go in the morning don't even have to book an appointment as most of them are free in the morning.


----------



## Badgers (Mar 24, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Never seen that before. It really does look like your phone is a duffer.



Same as this Ed ^


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 24, 2010)

From what I can see, running iTunes as Administrator (just once) may well fix that problem.

Alternatively, another suggestion I've seen is "try to sync your iPhone to iTunes and when the error message shows up press okay and then press sync again. Whatever the first song is that it is trying to sync go and delete it."


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 24, 2010)

Or the connection cable is. I've had "unknown error" during syncing when I've had a loose connection.


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Never seen that before. It really does look like  your phone is a duffer.
> 
> I keep telling you to take it back to the Apple shop.  Keep ignoring me,  its not like its even hard to get to for you.


There's an awful  lot of pages on the web with people suffering the same problem, and  curing it invariably involves rebooting the machine/phone or some  similar faffing. 

I haven't got time to go into town and stand around waiting for some  Apple branded geek at the (ahem) 'Genius Bar,' but if it continues, the I  will - with supreme reluctance - visit the home of the iBorg (I'm usually only ever in town on Saturday afternoons).



Lazy Llama said:


> Alternatively, another suggestion I've seen is "try to sync your iPhone to iTunes and when the error message shows up press okay and then press sync again. Whatever the first song is that it is trying to sync go and delete it."


Press sync where? The phone doesn't appear in iTunes.

After unplugging it a load of times, it's working now.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

Looks like the iPhone is getting multitasking, which is nice:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/31/apple-rumor-twofer-expose-like-multitasking-in-iphone-os-4-0-i/?icid=engadget-iphone-url


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Well maybe. Or, maybe it'll be an _amazing-new-unbelievably-innovative feature_ to send Apple fans rushing out to buy the next version of the iPhone. It would be nice if Apple rewarded its current iPhone users with an updated OS, but they're not exactly renown for giving away new features to existing users (see: video recording on 3G).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

Only a fool wouldn't bow down to the sheer innovation and god like greatness of the iPhone now.


----------



## pboi (Apr 1, 2010)

i chose HTC Desire


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> I haven't got time to go into town and stand around waiting for some  Apple branded geek at the (ahem) 'Genius Bar,' but if it continues, the I  will - with supreme reluctance - visit the home of the iBorg (I'm usually only ever in town on Saturday afternoons).



You're a freelance worker who lives 25 mins from the Apple store and your whinging about not wanting to visit it with a pre booked meeting (so you don't have to stand around) with a dedicated person at the store who, due to their enthusiam for the product, probably knows excatly waht to do & will help you out? 
We all may find the opening day high 5'in rather stomach churning, but that aside, good luck with finding that sort of avalable service for your HTC or Palm.

tbh, I think you're secretly loving the fact that your iPhone's apparently  a duffer. It ligitimises - to you- the bizzare & frankly obsessive chip on your shoulder that you have about Apple.

I don't know anyone with an iPhone (and I know a lot) that's had remotely a fraction of the problems you apparently seem to be having.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> I don't know anyone with an iPhone (and I know a lot) that's had remotely a fraction of the problems you apparently seem to be having.



This is true for me also...


----------



## Gromit (Apr 1, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This is true for me also...



Same here. 

iPhones are powered by love. Editor isn't giving it enough which is why it's rebelling against him in the hopes of being sold to a nicer owner. My theory.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> tbh, I think you're secretly loving the fact that your iPhone's apparently  a duffer. It ligitimises - to you- the bizzare & frankly obsessive chip on your shoulder that you have about Apple.


I do not like the fact that my iPhone has had problems any more than I enjoyed the hassle I had with my Pre. I don't enjoy having to make special trips into town to sort out any handset either.

I also dislike your endless personal digs. You've made a habit of following me around the boards to make these cheap little digs, and I'd like you to stop now please, They're unnecessary and nothing to the debate.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Gromit said:


> iPhones are powered by love. Editor isn't giving it enough which is why it's rebelling against him in the hopes of being sold to a nicer owner. My theory.


But... I gave it a nice case and everything!


----------



## Gromit (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> But... I gave it a nice case and everything!



But when was the last time you bought it flowers or took it for a romantic dinner?


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> You've made a habit of following me around the boards to make these cheap little digs



Bullshit.
The only time I ever interact with you is on this particular forum - maybe the photography forum every now & again.
To turn you own style of finger jabbing on you - please show me evidence of me "following you around the boards".


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> To turn you own style of finger jabbing on you - please show me evidence of me "following you around the boards".


There is no need for you to charge into threads to 'turn my own style of finger jabbing on me' (whatever that means).
No one's asked you to be their defender against err, finger jabs, and these unprovoked personal attacks add nothing to the debate. Please stop them.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

Gromit said:
			
		

> Same here.
> 
> iPhones are powered by love. Editor isn't giving it enough which is why it's rebelling against him in the hopes of being sold to a nicer owner. My theory.



I think there might be something to that.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> I do not like the fact that my iPhone has had problems any more than I enjoyed the hassle I had with my Pre. I don't enjoy having to make special trips into town to sort out any handset either.
> 
> I also dislike your endless personal digs. You've made a habit of following me around the boards to make these cheap little digs, and I'd like you to stop now please, They're unnecessary and nothing to the debate.



Special trips into town? Lol you make it sound like an expedition to the north pole! 

They are very helpful in the shop and you don't have to wait very long. There's no weird woops or high fiving just great customer service, 

But of course if you'd rather suffer and complain than do something about it then that's your choice...


----------



## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

To be fair Id be moaning if I had to make trips somewhere to solve a device problem too. I consider at least some of my success in not having many problems as an Apple users for 5 years to be down to luck.


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> There is no need for you to charge into threads to 'turn my own style of finger jabbing on me' (whatever that means).
> No one's asked you to be their defender against err, finger jabs, and these unprovoked personal attacks add nothing to the debate. Please stop them.



I asked you for evidence to back up your allagation of my "following you around the boards".
Are you going to provide some or not?


----------



## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> Well maybe. Or, maybe it'll be an _amazing-new-unbelievably-innovative feature_ to send Apple fans rushing out to buy the next version of the iPhone. It would be nice if Apple rewarded its current iPhone users with an updated OS, but they're not exactly renown for giving away new features to existing users (see: video recording on 3G).



It will be interesting to see what happens. Sometimes there are legit hardware reasons for not adding a feature to older models, eg processing power. Sometimes its just an excuse to sell new devices, or a blend of the two. They will need to tread carefully with the multitasking, I can imagine them claiming it doesnt work well on older hardware, I can imagine quite a user backlash. We might get it as a software update, in which case I will be very happy but I can still imagine you finding a way to sneer at it.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> I asked you for evidence to back up your allagation of my "following you around the boards".
> Are you going to provide some or not?


Try using the search  function. Or, even better, use your memory and stop playing games and disrupting this thread with your pathetic deceit. Besides, you've all but admitted it with your bizarre 'finger jabbing' comment.  


Kid_Eternity said:


> But of course if you'd rather suffer and complain than do something about it then that's your choice...


Where am I 'suffering'? I posted up a problem and asked for help here. I looked it up online and thought I'd share what I unearthed (and that was a lot of people have suffered the same problem). Surely sharing such info and experiences is what this forum is all about? 

FYI, I really am loathe to go into town in the week because I'm usually working throughout the day. Wirefresh doesn't write itself you know! (and I'm not exactly overwhelmed with contributors either).


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

elbows said:


> We might get it as a software update, in which case I will be very happy but I can still imagine you finding a way to sneer at it.


FFS. What is it with the personal digs? Have I had a go at you? No. So please keep it civil. 

Technically, there is no real reason why Apple can't implement MT on its older phones as far as I can see. It works on most other handsets and hackers have got it working extremely well for jailkbroken phones. MT would certainly cause some drain on the battery life and perhaps confuse users, so maybe that's why Apple is holding back.

It is ridiculous that I currently have to completely relaunch a game if I reply to a text though.


----------



## gabi (Apr 1, 2010)

When everything else is my life is spiralling out of control it's nice to know that if I pop back into this thread editor and pie will still be at each other's throats. over a phone


----------



## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

Sorry, I was not trying to get too personal, nasty or uncivil but I guess I overstepped the mark. I wont do it again, but I will risk annoying you once more time by suggesting that if you just occasionally resist seizing every single opportunity to grind an axe over Apple then people will find it harder to write off your Apple complaints as saying more about you than Apple. I actually agree with many of your reasons for not being a gushing Apple fan, and their excessive hype is bound to trigger an opposite reaction in some, but it sometimes feels like the balancing act aint working.

Stay tuned for a thesis on computing platforms as the new ism.


----------



## elbows (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> Technically, there is no real reason why Apple can't implement MT on its older phones as far as I can see. It works on most other handsets and hackers have got it working extremely well for jailkbroken phones. MT would certainly cause some drain on the battery life and perhaps confuse users, so maybe that's why Apple is holding back.



Yeah Apple tend to be a bit too conservative when it comes to stripping out features that could confuse the user experience or slightly compromise how fast a device seems/battery life. I cant imagine them abandoning this general strategy as the upside to it is responsible for a lot of the 'magic' that makes their devices desirable, but it can be deeply frustrating and limiting. It certainly feels like the timing is right for them to start adding some sort of multitasking, I think they know that it costs them some customers, and they dont have other commercial reasons to be against it like they have with flash.


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> Try using the search  function. Or, even better, use your memory and stop playing games and disrupting this thread with your pathetic deceit.



No, you use the search function or your memory & back up your allegation that I "follow you around the boards making cheap digs", or else withdraw it please.

I'm not playing games, mate -  I'm asking you, almost word for word, to do exactly what you demand other posters to do on a regular basis.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> No, you use the search function or your memory & back up your allegation that I "follow you around the boards making cheap digs", or else withdraw it please.
> 
> I'm not playing games, mate -  I'm asking you, almost word for word, to do exactly what you demand other posters to do on a regular basis.


Two seconds searching
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6188913&postcount=6
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6190579&postcount=41
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5610650&postcount=181

There's loads more to be found by using the search function if your memory continues to conveniently fail you.

Now STFU please.


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6188913&postcount=6
> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=6190579&postcount=41
> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=5610650&postcount=181



From 3 years ago & all from this _*one*_ forum 

Jesus, you're a piece of work sometimes  - thanks for showing everyone that.
Now I will leave it.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> From 3 years ago & all from this _*one*_ forum
> 
> Jesus, you're a piece of work sometimes  - thanks for showing everyone that.
> Now I will leave it.


I gave you examples as requested. If your selective amnesia recovers, I'm sure you'll be able to remember more. 
In fact, here you are charging in to accuse me of "double standards" on another thread only y_esterday_:
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=10490136#post10490136

As usual, you failed to elaborate.


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:


> I gave you examples as requested.



You catorgorigally accused me of "following you around the _boards_"

You have posted examples of me responding to you in particular threads, in one particular forum.
You've got to admit, your original accusation is looking a tad unfounded, isn't it?



editor said:


> In fact, here you are charging in to accuse me of "double standards" on another thread only y_esterday_:



Well, you've nicely proved my point today, thanks 

Have a nice Easter.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Now I will leave it.


Stick to your word please. 

Oh, and no more personal attacks elsewhere, please. Thanks.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

elbows said:
			
		

> To be fair Id be moaning if I had to make trips somewhere to solve a device problem too. I consider at least some of my success in not having many problems as an Apple users for 5 years to be down to luck.



Comparing sitting around for weeks complaining with taking an hour and a half journey and meeting time it's nothing to 'go into yown'...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 1, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> Try using the search  function. Or, even better, use your memory and stop playing games and disrupting this thread with your pathetic deceit. Besides, you've all but admitted it with your bizarre 'finger jabbing' comment.
> 
> 
> > But of course if you'd rather suffer and complain than do something about it then that's your choice...
> ...



You work to midnight? Give yourself a small break and head in after work. It will stop your pain honest.


----------



## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

It does puzzle me as to why after everything Editor went and got an iPhone and not one of the alternatives.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 1, 2010)

grit said:


> It does puzzle me as to why after everything Editor went and got an iPhone and not one of the alternatives.


he did, the iphone is his 3rd (I think) smartphone of the new generation (all oldschool palm before that)


----------



## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> he did, the iphone is his 3rd (I think) smartphone of the new generation (all oldschool palm before that)



Yeah, he jumped from Pre to iPhone which seems to go against his values so to speak. I would have assumed that he would have gone the Android 2.1 route.


----------



## gabi (Apr 1, 2010)

I had a play on an android phone for the first time last night. why anyone would prefer that over an iphone i dont know. just not very nice in comparison. hardly surprising ed didnt go down that route.


----------



## grit (Apr 1, 2010)

gabi said:


> I had a play on an android phone for the first time last night. why anyone would prefer that over an iphone i dont know. just not very nice in comparison. hardly surprising ed didnt go down that route.



Which Android phone? I was a iPhone 3g user for 2 years and am very happy with the switch.


----------



## gabi (Apr 1, 2010)

grit said:


> Which Android phone? I was a iPhone 3g user for 2 years and am very happy with the switch.



tbh, i dont know what phone it was - im not partcularly observant on such things. im guessing a pretty good one given the geekiness of the owner.

it just didnt have the same smoothness of the iphone. it really felt like using a windows pc after working on a mac for a while.  which isn't a pleasant switch to have to make.


----------



## editor (Apr 1, 2010)

gabi said:


> tbh, i dont know what phone it was - im not partcularly observant on such things. im guessing a pretty good one given the geekiness of the owner.
> 
> it just didnt have the same smoothness of the iphone. it really felt like using a windows pc after working on a mac for a while.  which isn't a pleasant switch to have to make.


My old Android G1 is pretty duff compared to my 3GS, but the Desire looks a far better all round proposition than the iPhone to my eyes. This may, of course, change if there's an OS upgrade with the iPhone  - although the camera will still remain pretty awful and _sans le flash._


----------



## pboi (Apr 1, 2010)

well if/when I get it, you are welcome to read my attempt at a review.  tho not exactly Ed styleeeee.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 1, 2010)

pboi said:


> well if/when I get it, you are welcome to read my attempt at a review.  tho not exactly Ed styleeeee.



I've tried to write a tech review for someone...... apparently describing the vibration on a phone as 'strong enough to shake the crust of an unwashed OAP's flange' wasn't the style of writing they were looking for 

I write from the heart.


----------



## magneze (Apr 1, 2010)

Apple drop HTML support.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/01/apple_ihtml/


----------



## Gromit (Apr 1, 2010)

magneze said:


> Apple drop HTML support.
> 
> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/04/01/apple_ihtml/



And the date today is?


----------



## magneze (Apr 1, 2010)




----------



## editor (Apr 2, 2010)

Why are iTunes updates so immense? I'm only getting a v0.1 upgrade and it's nearly 110MB!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 2, 2010)

I think they just have a crappy installer which updates the entire thing irrespective if its changed or not.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 2, 2010)

Not that it's an issue with a broadband connection; while updating I was getting nearly a megabyte a second downloaded so the update took no time at all..


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 2, 2010)

Don't you have to download the whole thing again whenever you update any program?  I'm sure that's been the case whenever I do it.


----------



## janeb (Apr 4, 2010)

I'm a bit of a late adopter and have been verging on getting an iphone for ages - bought one yesterday.....I love it 

Am determined not to go mad re Apps so only downloaded about 10 so far, suspect that won't last for long


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 4, 2010)

janeb said:
			
		

> I'm a bit of a late adopter and have been verging on getting an iphone for ages - bought one yesterday.....I love it
> 
> Am determined not to go mad re Apps so only downloaded about 10 so far, suspect that won't last for long



Heh it won't, a small tip: stay away from the silly apps ad it'll help.


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 5, 2010)

janeb said:


> I'm a bit of a late adopter and have been verging on getting an iphone for ages - bought one yesterday.....I love it
> 
> Am determined not to go mad re Apps so only downloaded about 10 so far, suspect that won't last for long



Trust me, it won't.  I bought my iPhone last summer and now have 2 gigs worth of apps on it!


----------



## janeb (Apr 5, 2010)

So far my favourite is TuneIn radio, was listening to folk music from the Antartic earlier.  Bought Mr jb a Roberts Internet radio for Xmas in 2009 and this iphone has a more reliable connection


----------



## paolo (Apr 6, 2010)

Lots of talk about iPhone OS 4 announcement on Thursday. Too much talk to dismiss it.

No venue booked though... Strange timing and proceedings.

Multitasking is being widely speculated. Hope so. There's a few media playing thingies that aren't much cop without it.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 6, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Lots of talk about iPhone OS 4 announcement on Thursday. Too much talk to dismiss it.
> 
> No venue booked though... Strange timing and proceedings.
> 
> Multitasking is being widely speculated. Hope so. There's a few media playing thingies that aren't much cop without it.



I thought they were waiting for the WDC in June (maybe they'll use that to announced new hardware): http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/


----------



## elbows (Apr 6, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Lots of talk about iPhone OS 4 announcement on Thursday. Too much talk to dismiss it.
> 
> No venue booked though... Strange timing and proceedings.
> 
> Multitasking is being widely speculated. Hope so. There's a few media playing thingies that aren't much cop without it.



The exact features of iPhone OS 4 are speculation but that there is an event on Thursday is a certainty, media invitations say its at the 'Town Hall' on Apples own campus.

As for the timing, I dont think its too surprising really, its new phone hardware that people expect to stick to the yearly summer release schedule, and whilst the OS often gets updated at about the same time, its not odd for some details of it to be given months before.

I suppose its also possible that Apple think that talking about OS 4 now will boost iPad sales and may help them to keep selling lots of existing iphone models rather than silence drawing attention to upcoming iphone hardware that could make some people delay their iphone purchasing decision.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Apr 6, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Lots of talk about iPhone OS 4 announcement on Thursday. Too much talk to dismiss it.
> 
> No venue booked though... Strange timing and proceedings.


Thursday, April 8, at 10:00 Pacific Time at the Town Hall on Apple’s  Cupertino campus - http://theappleblog.com/2010/04/05/iphone-os-4-event-announced/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2010)

This does seemed to have come out of the blue a bit...interested to see what they got coming up...


----------



## paolo (Apr 6, 2010)

I stand, very clearly, corrected on the venue front 

Looking forward to this.


----------



## elbows (Apr 6, 2010)

If anything its overdue, the iPad got in the way of the schedule a bit and the iphone OS 4 preview is later than the OS 3 one was (which I think happened in March last year)


----------



## Sunray (Apr 6, 2010)

This is way more interesting to me than any talk of crappy iPad announcements.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 6, 2010)

It's not _that_ interesting, because all they will do is announce a load of upgrades to make the iPhone on a par with what other smartphones had last year


----------



## ChrisFilter (Apr 6, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's not _that_ interesting, because all they will do is announce a load of upgrades to make the iPhone on a par with what other smartphones had last year



True. But it'll do them all better. 

They need to step up however. The Desire will be my next phone ATM when I upgrade in December.


----------



## editor (Apr 6, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's not _that_ interesting, because all they will do is announce a load of upgrades to make the iPhone on a par with what other smartphones had last year


They've got to look sharp about it too, because while Apple's market smartphone share has stopped growing, Android is rising very fast and becoming a real contender.

Only Blackberry and Android registered market share gains over the Nov 09 - Feb 10 period. Apple's share actually went down.

http://www.wirefresh.com/android-scores-huge-gains-in-the-us-iphone-stalls/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 6, 2010)

All good news, competition is what the market needs...


----------



## Refused as fuck (Apr 6, 2010)

And every worker has a share!


----------



## grit (Apr 7, 2010)

Whats exciting me about this announcement is that we may actually get a half decent debate going now


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 7, 2010)

Does anyone else see Facebook when they look at that image? Dunno why but when I first saw it the colour just reminded me of FB and I could see the image pulling back to reveal the FB 'F'...


----------



## Sunray (Apr 7, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's not _that_ interesting, because all they will do is announce a load of upgrades to make the iPhone on a par with what other smartphones had last year



Since the 2G came out, all the competitors have had 3 years to compete with Apple and have done pretty much fuck all pushing the smart phone genre apart from spending all that time working out how to copy Apple.  

Only Palm has actually done something that can genuinely be considered pushing the envelope with regard to smart phone feature sets.

Capacitive multi-touch screens, flick scrolling, pinch zoom, home screen with loads of App icons, you name it, everyone's copied it without a second thought towards doing something better.

Palm aside, name a single feature on any smart phone that's new and innovative?


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Palm aside, name a single feature on any smart phone that's new and innovative?


Yes. Android was first to include a digital compass and the first to introduce properly integrated augmented reality apps.


----------



## pboi (Apr 7, 2010)

that thing where you can type without taking your finger off the screen?


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

pboi said:


> that thing where you can type without taking your finger off the screen?


That'll be Swype. 

Back on iphones - and it hurts me to say this - but the Sky news app has been updated with some excellent election coverage.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Yes. Android was first to include a digital compass and the first to introduce properly integrated augmented reality apps.



The Apps arn't what I was talking about because they weren't created by the Phone manufacturers, so one feature, which is my point really.

One feature in 3 years does not make a competitive environment.

Palm to their massive credit have turned out a load of new features.


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2010)

Sunray said:


> The Apps arn't what I was talking about because they weren't created by the Phone manufacturers, so one feature, which is my point really.
> 
> One feature in 3 years does not make a competitive environment.
> 
> Palm to their massive credit have turned out a load of new features.


What hardware technology firsts did the iPhone introduce?


----------



## elbows (Apr 7, 2010)

editor said:


> What hardware technology firsts did the iPhone introduce?



It may not have been the first device in the world to use the tech, but as far as Im concerned the iphone really introduced capacitive multi-touch screens to people.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 7, 2010)

Multi-touch interface, flick scrolling, pinch zoom, web browser that actually worked like a desktop one, predictive text full keyboard, full google maps integration with AGPS, iPod integration, visual voice mail, auto brightness control.

Then there is packaging it all together in a very easy to use way, not something to be dismissed lightly because its very hard to do and they utterly nailed it.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

*fuuuuuuu*

damnit after 20 months my iPhone fell out of a pair of trousers onto stone tiles in the bathroom - it fell like buttered toast, flat onto the screen, pow! Still sort of works, I check with my insurance and it's a 3 week wait to get it back, the fuckers. I think I'll attempt to fix it myself...


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2010)

Clear your mailbox you naughty boy.

163 unread!

You should have no more than 5 unread at any one time.

Sympathies on the splat though.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 8, 2010)

My battery seems to be _really_ bad at the moment.
The iPhone is very juicy on battery but I am barely getting half a day.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Ouch! I got a mate who did the same a while back, he brought it out in front a bunch of us who had just got our iPhones and everyone's reaction was the same you have when you see someone getting kicked in the nads!


----------



## themonkeyman (Apr 8, 2010)

Structaural said:


> damnit after 20 months my iPhone fell out of a pair of trousers onto stone tiles in the bathroom - it fell like buttered toast, flat onto the screen, pow! Still sort of works, I check with my insurance and it's a 3 week wait to get it back, the fuckers. I think I'll attempt to fix it myself...



ouch


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Clear your mailbox you naughty boy.
> 
> 163 unread!
> 
> ...




I read most email on my desktop - some sort of sync with gmail for read/unread messages would be useful (my .mac account syncs properly but then that's apple). Hopefully 'select all' and 'mark as read' will be added to iPhone OS 4, you know, the basic stuff...


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I read most email on my desktop - some sort of sync with gmail for read/unread messages would be useful (my .mac account syncs properly but then that's apple). Hopefully 'select all' and 'mark as read' will be added to iPhone OS 4, you know, the basic stuff...


Did you set up your Gmail by pressing the Gmail button on the iphone email setup wizard?

That's where you went wrong - the default setting is to use POP

Delete that account on the phone and set it up to use IMAP instead

http://mail.google.com/support/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=77702

This gives full sync with read/unread on the server

EDIT: Why this isn't the default behaviour I don't know


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2010)

Yep use IMAP.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

oh, cheers. I'll do that (up until I cut my finger open anyway


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Multi-touch interface, flick scrolling, pinch zoom, web browser that actually worked like a desktop one, predictive text full keyboard, full google maps integration with AGPS, iPod integration, visual voice mail, auto brightness control.


That's almost all software-based, no?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

What time is the iPhone OS 4.0 thing today?


----------



## Kanda (Apr 8, 2010)

5 hours, 44 minutes from now


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:


> That's almost all software-based, no?



All created by the Manufacture of the phone with its release.  The augmentation you mention wasn't created by Google or available on its release.  The compass was, I should have typed 3rd party Apps because that's what I meant.  Otherwise your going to be bringing fart apps into the fold, fairly sure they didn't exist before the iPhone.

Palm added the rather clever card interface, off screen touch interface and messaging convergence to that list.


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 8, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I check with my insurance and it's a 3 week wait to get it back, the fuckers. I think I'll attempt to fix it myself...



I feel your pain - I dropped my old 3G onto a stone floor last year with a similar result. 

Unless you are very, very handy with taking apart, and more importantly, re- assemebling finely assembled electronic items, the DIY route looks like a very finickety & labourious job. 
I'd wait the 3 weeks to get it done properly, tbh.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Kanda said:


> 5 hours, 44 minutes from now



Ah the standard 6pm kick off, good good.


----------



## pboi (Apr 8, 2010)

I like the attention to detail


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> I feel your pain - I dropped my old 3G onto a stone floor last year with a similar result.
> 
> Unless you are very, very handy with taking apart, and more importantly, re- assemebling finely assembled electronic items, the DIY route looks like a very finickety & labourious job.
> I'd wait the 3 weeks to get it done properly, tbh.



It looks pretty easy as long as you have one of those levers thingy. There are a number of videos showing how.  If its under insurance, get clearance to get it fixed at an Apple shop.  They will do it there and then.

Whole lot, glass, lcd and digitizer and the tools are on ebay for about 30 quid total if you want to DIY.


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 8, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ah the standard 6pm kick off, good good.



Actually 10am PST is 7pm BST


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2010)

http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/

it is currently 06:04 in San Francisco. It will be 10:00 in just under 4 hours, ie 18:00 in the UK

They have daylight saving in the USA too 

10am P*D*T is 6pm B*S*T


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 8, 2010)

Crispy said:


> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/
> 
> it is currently 06:04 in San Francisco. It will be 10:00 in just under 4 hours, ie 18:00 in the UK
> 
> ...


Oh, it's happening a bit sooner than I thought. 

I was just going by what turned up on a Google search for "10am pst in  bst".


----------



## belboid (Apr 8, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> I was just going by what turned up on a Google search for "10am pst in  bst".



tut tut, what's wrong with using the iphone app, eh?


----------



## grit (Apr 8, 2010)

So other than multi tasking, what are people guessing will be announced?


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2010)

grit said:


> So other than multi tasking, what are people guessing will be announced?


 
We've had GPS.
We've had a compass.

Next logical step is a built in Barometer. So software for the 4G to run that.

Plus support for Flash, Web 3.0 and Animated Ap Icons.


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 8, 2010)

belboid said:


> tut tut, what's wrong with using the iphone app, eh?



Which app?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Apr 8, 2010)

I heard the new iPhone OS will come with a unicorn app.

And ponies...


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> I heard the new iPhone OS will come with a unicorn app.
> 
> And ponies...


 
One or the other but surely not both!


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2010)

Some sort of improved file-sharing scheme than the over-complicated itunes-based method the ipad uses
Network/bluetooth printing

I suspect multitasking will not be the 'true' kind, but a combination of "state save and restore" and specialised APIs for limited functions like playing a music stream or listening to a chatroom.


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I suspect multitasking will not be the 'true' kind, but a combination of "state save and restore" and specialised APIs for limited functions like playing a music stream or listening to a chatroom.


Anything's got to be better than the endless close app/open new app/close app/reopen original app farrago. At the moment, my ancient Treo 650 manages it better!

Oh, and the hotly tipped big news today appears to be the launch of an Apple advertising platform. Whoppee.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...to-introduce-mobile-advertising-platform.html


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> It looks pretty easy as long as you have one of those levers thingy. There are a number of videos showing how.



No it doesn't - it looks like a patience stretching nightmare! 
It looks like you'll never get the fucker back together properly again - that's what it looks like 


etc etc

If you've got insurance to cover an official replacement, you'd be nuts to go the DIY route!


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> It looks pretty easy as long as you have one of those levers thingy. There are a number of videos showing how.  If its under insurance, get clearance to get it fixed at an Apple shop.  They will do it there and then.
> 
> Whole lot, glass, lcd and digitizer and the tools are on ebay for about 30 quid total if you want to DIY.



Hmm I'm with T-mobile netherlands - they are a bunch of fuckers so I doubt they'll let me use an Apple store. I'm tempted to do it myself as I'm pretty good at disassembling and reassembling. But I'm unemployed and brassic at the moment so I'll just put up with it for now (I want the new one anyway but that's a few month away ). An insurance form is on its way to me but I don't even have a crappy old phone to put my SIM in. I don't think they replace it Pie1, just repair it (probably put the crappy old battery back in too)

This website looks handy:
http://www.missionrepair.com/Mission_Repair_iPhone_Repair_Parts_s/343.htm
My LCD survived so only the glass and digitiser needed.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Anything's got to be better than the endless close app/open new app/close app/reopen original app farrago. At the moment, my ancient Treo 650 manages it better!
> 
> Oh, and the hotly tipped big news today appears to be the launch of an Apple advertising platform. Whoppee.
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...to-introduce-mobile-advertising-platform.html



When those ad's get more than the glimmer I get on the odd web site from time to time, I will jail break that phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

10 minutes until heaven shines on us mere mortals!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

Ahh dev access to the calendar, they are opening up the final features of the phone to dev's.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

And multitasking...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

"We weren't the first to this party, but we're going to be the best"

Heh good line...


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

No surprise there, its how its implemented and the UI that makes or breaks it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Ahh dev access to the calendar, they are opening up the final features of the phone to dev's.



Missed that, hopefully it means the excellent Agendus will now be possible?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

By the way where's a good live blog of this?


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

A reason to unjailbreak


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

ars, Kid_E

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/iphone-os-4-special-event-cupertino-liveblog.ars


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> By the way where's a good live blog of this?



http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/live-from-apples-iphone-os-4-event/?sort=newest&refresh=60


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Structaural said:


> ars, Kid_E
> 
> http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/iphone-os-4-special-event-cupertino-liveblog.ars



Cheers.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/live-from-apples-iphone-os-4-event/?sort=newest&refresh=60



thats what im on./


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

VOIP..... you can do that with skype anyway :/

Edit: Skype in the background.....


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

There is quite a lot to look forward to on that slide and this one too






Including down there in the bottom right in small, wake on wireless?  Eh?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Yep he mentioned somethig like 100 new additions...


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

sim667 said:


> thats what im on./



I'm on both now


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Wonder what iPod out means...?


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

I like the folder idea


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Yup pretty useful.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

wallpapers...... about fucking time.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Fuck wallpapers more than one exchange account!


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

tentpole is an unfortunate term...  though I guess that's what the high fivers will be having... Schwing!


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

fuck books


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Games!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

Jesus these guys have been hard at work.  

I think Fridgemagnets statement that the iPhone is now not the hotly developed item has just gone up in a puff of smoke.  Lots of additions and it still looks like the usability of the device hasn't been compromised.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

sim667 said:


> fuck books



yep I gave up reading books on my iPhone some time ago. irlBooks ftw


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Very good move going down the xbox live route, Nintendo, Sony and MS must be bricking it!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

I suppose if people want free apps then iAd gives developers the ability to offer them.  As long as its not something that isn't optional.  

I wonder if this is the way they will offer trial apps?

Fuck thats a seriously huge land grab by Apple in the ad stakes.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

iads?

I dont understand, and i dont want fucking adverts on my phone, i paid for the device ffs!


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm impressed, some great implementation there. Especially multi-tasking.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Very good move going down the xbox live route, Nintendo, Sony and MS must be bricking it!


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2010)

sim667 said:


> iads?
> 
> I dont understand, and i dont want fucking adverts on my phone, i paid for the device ffs!



Not even after looking at the Emotion / Interaction graph?


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

iAds - Flash is back but only for the shit stuff.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Not even after looking at the Emotion / Interaction graph?



i suppose ads is ok, if its optional...... i.e. not like pop ups on a browser.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

*iBored*


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Er seriously I don't think adverts counts as a cool new feature for my fucking iPhone!


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2010)

sim667 said:


> i suppose ads is ok, if its optional...... i.e. not like pop ups on a browser.



The power of graphs wins again.


----------



## grit (Apr 8, 2010)

"We figured out how to implement multitasking for third party apps and avoid those things. So that's what took so long".

Thats a piss poor excuse. Also a lot of this stuff is just bringing it on par with the jailbroken phones.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

So multitasking and multi exchange accounts plus gaming...hmmm


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

not for 3g and 2g is that?


----------



## grit (Apr 8, 2010)

More specifically the fluff stuff like wallpapers and things like that. I've only seen those summary graphics shots but a lot of it seemed pretty basic stuff.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

No multi-tasking for the 2G and 3G phones.

Not that I care, I'll have the iPhone Wizzy when that is released at about the same time.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Seems so but also they said pretty much everything will run on the 3gs, a hint there's some unnannounced stuff only the new iPhone will do?


----------



## grit (Apr 8, 2010)

looks like its 3gs only, thats going to piss a bunch of people off.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

grit said:


> "We figured out how to implement multitasking for third party apps and avoid those things. So that's what took so long".
> 
> Thats a piss poor excuse. Also a lot of this stuff is just bringing it on par with the jailbroken phones.



No what took them time was to write a whole mobile OS from scratch get it reliable and the hardware to run it on.  

This is really starting to mature as a platform now.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

if there's no multitasking on my 3g then there's no point upgrading, i dont play games, i dont read books on my phone, i certainly dont want advertising direct to my handset and it wont be able to multitask..... so there is literally no benefits.


----------



## grit (Apr 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> No what took them time was to write a whole mobile OS from scratch get it reliable and the hardware to run it on.
> 
> This is really starting to mature as a platform now.



Their updates have also been miles apart. Just seemed like a weak excuse.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

grit said:


> looks like its 3gs only, thats going to piss a bunch of people off.



All those original iPhone owners on two year contracts will probably just get the new one...


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2010)

grit said:


> looks like its 3gs only, thats going to piss a bunch of people off.



2G None
3G Some multitasking
3Gs Full multitasking

Thats how I've read it.


----------



## grit (Apr 8, 2010)

sim667 said:


> if there's no multitasking on my 3g then there's no point upgrading, i dont play games, i dont read books on my phone, i certainly dont want advertising direct to my handset and it wont be able to multitask..... so there is literally no benefits.



Yeah, i was hoping i could take the iphone out of the drawer and have a play with the new update :/

E2A: I think im actually just going to wait until a full wrap up has come out, its too sketchy getting bite size chunks from loads of different sources.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

Gromit said:


> 2G None
> 3G Some multitasking
> 3Gs Full multitasking
> 
> Thats how I've read it.



Ive read it as no multitasking at all for 3g/2g

everything for 3gs.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm not really interested in running it on my current iPhone, I need a new gadget.

There are a stack of things there that will make the dev community happy and that will in turn make for better applications.  Hardware accelerated maths is an interesting one for physics games.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

boo going to have to buy a new phone, I was expecting to be able to download that today as well...

Still good stuff, nothing really amazing..., more stuff we've wanted for some time, but well implemented. They move again to the top of the smartphone OS pile I reckon.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 8, 2010)

Q: can you go back on the 1 billion ad impressions and talk about how large mobile advertising is?

What suckup asked this? 

As its obviously all Steve wants to talk about and has gone on and on about already!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

I don't mind iAd being there as long as its 100% optional.  If there a movie or Nike create a cool application, thats fine, but if I unlock my phone and I am presented with a 10 second ad, then its Jail broken the moment the moment I can.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

Just been looking at the list of features

as soon as the new version is jailbroken and backgrounder installed the 3g wont do anything the 3gs cant do tbh.....

not quite as miffed now.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

Structaural said:


> boo going to have to buy a new phone, I was expecting to be able to download that today as well...
> 
> Still good stuff, nothing really amazing..., more stuff we've wanted for some time, but well implemented. They move again to the top of the smartphone OS pile I reckon.



The 3G and the 3GS are nearly the same phone, the 3GS has a bit more memory and a faster CPU but essentially nothing very new.

The next phone with all those extra features and faster hardware when upgrading from the 3G will be a very noticeable step, the 3GS just wasn't and I doubt that a 3GS owner will want to upgrade to the next phone, as there won't be enough to make them jump.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

> Ryan Block from GDGT: What about running unsigned apps? Steve: You know, there's a porn store for Android. Anyone can download them. You can, your kids can. That's just not a place we want to go.



I want porn dammit! Apple clearly isnt listening to its customers 

iMuff ftw!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

There are some things they didn't discuss, in App SMS, so people can finally write a super decent SMS application.

The only really weird thing they haven't got rid of yet is the notifications.  Talk about primitive, it looks so totally out of place on such a sophisticated device yet they have left it unchanged.  

Just buy Palm and then use their notification system.  Use something other than that daft system that can get totally out of hand with lots of notifications.

I wonder if anyone can come up with a proper keyboard that will be better over the touch one and not make it chunky.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> The 3G and the 3GS are nearly the same phone, the 3GS has a bit more memory and a faster CPU but essentially nothing very new.
> 
> The next phone with all those extra features and faster hardware when upgrading from the 3G will be a very noticeable step, the 3GS just wasn't and I doubt that a 3GS owner will want to upgrade to the next phone, as there won't be enough to make them jump.



Yep, the two year wait will be worth it, I expect a new iPhone at the WDC in June *looks at busted iphone*, I'm getting a normal cheap phone until then. Might get some gardening and learning done instead of surfing the net and checking my emails all the time  

It better have a thermometer like my mates casio watch did in 4th year (not sure if it beat my melody alarm casio watch 'cause that was way more annoying in class - but that got drapesd anyway...) 

time for more beer



Sunray said:


> I wonder if anyone can come up with a proper keyboard that will be better over the touch one and not make it chunky.



speech recognition has got to be the next leap, get that shit working, with a scroll dial to modify drunkeness and shouting


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 8, 2010)

sim667 said:


> fuck books


What's wrong with books?  I've found reading books on my iPhone quite pleasurable. What will happen to current books apps with the launch of iBooks on the iPhone is what I want to know.


sim667 said:


> iads?
> 
> I dont understand, and i dont want fucking adverts on my phone, i paid for the device ffs!


I don't think it's giving you anything that isn't there already (some apps already have ads), but instead of opening them up in Safari like it does atm, they will open within the app.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2010)

Exactly how I said they'd do it  Save state for frozen apps and custom APIs for background tasks

xbox live-style gaming network will be huge


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Jesus these guys have been hard at work.
> 
> I think Fridgemagnets statement that the iPhone is now not the hotly developed item has just gone up in a puff of smoke.  Lots of additions and it still looks like the usability of the device hasn't been compromised.



Mais non. I predicted that there wouldn't be any significant development in iPhone hardware at all and that it would all be software. Which this is.

Everything is proceeding as I had foreseen.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> What's wrong with books?  I've found reading books on my iPhone quite pleasurable. What will happen to current books apps with the launch of iBooks on the iPhone is what I want to know.
> 
> I don't think it's giving you anything that isn't there already (some apps already have ads), but instead of opening them up in Safari like it does atm, they will open within the app.



If i want books, ill buy them of amazon for 3 quid each...... not strain my eyes reading it off a backlit screen.

Yeah its not giving you anything that isnt there, but it is encouraging it.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 8, 2010)

Can anyone be arsed to do a bullet point summary of the new good stuff?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 8, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Can anyone be arsed to do a bullet point summary of the new good stuff?


http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/apple-announces-multitasking-and-more-for-iphone-os-40.ars

Multitasking
Better enterprise support
iBook store
email improvements (including threading and unified inbox)
API opening up (inc. photos and calendar)
Gaming social network - like xbox live
Better app organisation


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Can anyone be arsed to do a bullet point summary of the new good stuff?




Multitasking (3gs only)
voip
iphone gaming live (like xobx live basically)
UI changed to include app folders
ibooks
changeable wallpaper
something about a tentpole


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Mais non. I predicted that there wouldn't be any significant development in iPhone hardware at all and that it would all be software. Which this is.
> 
> Everything is proceeding as I had foreseen.



This wasn't about hardware, it was about the new OS.  The new hardware will probably be announced in June.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

Crispy said:
			
		

> Exactly how I said they'd do it  Save state for frozen apps and custom APIs for background tasks
> 
> xbox live-style gaming network will be huge



Yup the gaming thing is not to be underestimated...


----------



## ooo (Apr 8, 2010)

No flash nor java still.


----------



## ooo (Apr 8, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Multitasking (3gs only)
> voip
> iphone gaming live (like xobx live basically)
> UI changed to include app folders
> ...



The wallpaper bit is just embarrassing.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 8, 2010)

ooo said:


> No flash nor java still.



Neither will ever happen...


----------



## pboi (Apr 8, 2010)

so nothing to worry Android apart from the gaming thing.


----------



## elbows (Apr 8, 2010)

There isnt going to be any flash support unless Apples market share plummets and the device seems doomed.

Todays stuff is pretty good news really, especially when developers work their magic with it. The approach to multitasking is sensible but probably has a downside or two.

The lack of support for all features on older hardware is not very surprising, but still quite disappointing in a number of areas and will cause some people to get upset. Whether it ends up annoying me depends on detail regarding the new iphone hardware spec later this year, as I'll be due for an upgrade about then anyway, although I will be exploring Android phones at the time as well, to see if there is any merit to switching. This is where another aspect of the app store comes into play though - if Ive spent a significant amount on apps then thats another reason to stick with the same platform.

The model-specific detail of this OS release, along with things like the ipad and the new iphone hardware that we dont know anything about yet, realy starts to make it clear that one of the iphone advantages for developers if fading out, as it inevitably would. That being how much simpler it is to code sophisticated apps for a platform where there isnt much variation in hardware spec & os features. It becomes somewhat of a pain in the ass to have to allow for a variety of resolutions, OS versions, cpu speeds & ram, different API availablility. But like I said this is rather inevitable and was never an advantage the iphone platform could maintain without standing still.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 8, 2010)

pboi said:


> so nothing to worry Android apart from the gaming thing.



And seeing as I couldn't give a fuck about gaming I'll be quite happy sticking with Android...


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

No multitasking until the end of 2010?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> No multitasking until the end of 2010.



Eh? How is summer the end of 2010? Given that the 3gs came out June 17th it's likely the new OS hardware will be around a similar time.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 8, 2010)

Current fuss seems to be on the subject of cross-compilers under the 4.0 SDK T&Cs e.g. http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/iphone_agreement_bans_flash_compiler



> 3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).



While it's often being portrayed as being about Flash - rather lazily IMO, "oooh iPhones Apple Flash oooh" - it theoretically bans quite a few different dev kits which don't produce Obj-C, C, C++ or JS code for compilation as output. The two which I am interested in personally (Unity and Cocos2D) aren't affected but even so, it's a bit hmm.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

Yeah, two years will be July, so it only took a month for me to buy one after they announced it.  I think I got a 3G 3 days after launch in the UK.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 8, 2010)

The really don't want flash apps to pollute the iPhone in any way.  Apple really are on a anti-flash mission.


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Yeah, two years will be July, so it only took a month for me to buy one after they announced it.  I think I got a 3G 3 days after launch in the UK.



2 years?


----------



## editor (Apr 8, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Eh? How is summer the end of 2010? Given that the 3gs came out June 17th it's likely the new OS hardware will be around a similar time.


I thought reports were saying "end of the year," but I could be wrong as I'm dashing out to do Offline.

Either way it was one hell of an anti-climax. Anyone want to swap my iPhone for a Desire?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> I thought reports were saying "end of the year," but I could be wrong as I'm dashing out to do Offline.
> 
> Either way it was one hell of an anti-climax. Anyone want to swap my iPhone for a Desire?



Oh right. Nah the ipad gets it in the autumn...


----------



## elbows (Apr 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Either way it was one hell of an anti-climax.



What were you expecting or hoping for that made this an anti-climax? I think its very rare that device or software announcements by anybody turn out to be amazing wow moments, especially when many of the rumours turn out to be true or the features have been anticipated for ages/seen as great omissions in past versions.

To me it sometimes comes across like you want to have your cake and eat it, and its very easy to play a game where Apple are damned if they do and damned if they dont. There was not extreme and excessive hype about iphone os 4 ahead of time, lack of multitasking has long been a gripe, I cant think of too many things that people thought or dreamed would be in version 4 that it turns out arent (who actually thought flash would be included?). How can anyone who does not expect great wonders from Apple in general, knows only too well their faults, has a distaste for the hype and all the ludicrous expectations and emotions that such hype can generate, still claim to feel an anti-climax?

In the next few years I really cant think of many things Apple can do to their mobile phone platform that would constitute such an amazing leap of progress that would even come close to the original iphone launch. There is some room for software innovation and fixing previous omissions and flaws, but I dont imagine it being describable as happening in leaps and bounds. Other form factors such as the ipad are the closest they can get to innovating massively in a single bound, whilst meaningful new functionality that lots of people will really get into in a big way will mostly be generated by 3rd party developers finding great new uses for the platforms.


----------



## paolo (Apr 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> The really don't want flash apps to pollute the iPhone in any way.  Apple really are on a anti-flash mission.



The best flash blocker in the world. 100% success rate.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> Either way it was one hell of an anti-climax.



what a surprise...


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> what a surprise...


Did you get all excited by the thrilling news about half-arsed multi-tasking and the ability to make folders and your own wallpaper, then? Sorry, but I found it all rather underwhelming and very disappointing as an iPhone user.


> For fans of Apple's iPhone, the unveiling of the new iPhone OS 4.0 is a big deal. It's the first time, after all, iPhone users will be able to do basic things like multitasking, setting their own wallpapers, and placing folders on their home screens.
> 
> For the rest of the smartphone world, however, these features are old news. The truth about Apple's iPhone 4.0 update is that -- despite Steve Jobs' tendency to describe it with words like "amazing," "wonderful," and "delightful" -- it doesn't offer anything substantial that Android-powered devices haven't offered for quite some time.
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/193857/apples_iphone_os_40_no_threat_to_android.html


It seems that even the multi tasking is a bit of a bodge too - and it still falls far short of what webOS can do. Will you even be able to play streamed music from a web browser while you check email etc?


> The big one, though, is 'multitasking,' and yes, we have our snark fully on with the scare quotes. What Apple is doing instead of 'true' multitasking is offering seven different OS-level services that apps can take advantage of in lieu of actually running in the background: audio, VOIP, location, push notifications, local notifications, task finishing, and fast app switching. To switch to a recently opened app, you double-tap the home button and a dock of your recent apps pops up. When you think about it, it's actually a very elegant solution for maintaining the maximum amount of battery life and speed on a device - albeit by sacrificing certain things.
> 
> So why would a non-charitable person call this 'multitasking-lite?' Such a gadfly might point out that the UI here isn't as elegant as webOS; that it requires developers to revisit their apps to add multitasking support; that there's no 'closing' apps because in most cases technically they're not running in the background, they're just frozen and the OS is providing services for them; that there might be background services that developers would want that aren't in Apple's list of seven; that worst of all Apple is making developers spend more and more time on iPhone-only code instead of code that could potentially work cross-platform, thereby increasing lock-in.
> http://www.precentral.net/apple-plays-its-multitasking-card-its-no-ace


I've committed to the iPhone platform, and to be honest, I was hoping for more.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> I've committed to the iPhone platform, and to be honest, I was hoping for more.



Here's hoping you give up your iPhone for something else.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Apr 9, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Here's hoping you give up your iPhone for something else.



Oh come on. It's a disappointing feature set. Let's be honest. It gives you nothing that jailbreaking didn't do ages and ages ago. Gaming network aside.


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2010)

The multitasking stuff I find rather elegant in certain ways but in other ways  there are things it wont enable so there is something real to be disappointed about here.

The probable screwing of Adobes 'compile flash apps to iphone' may turn out to be the bigger story, still a bit early to be completely sure but certainly sounds like a recipe for further controversy.


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2010)

Oh and when I say the flash developer stuff could be the bigger story, I dont mean that its bigger issue for users, as its mostly flash developers who may feel screwed.

The 'stream music off the net whilst doing other stuff' does seem like a fair example of the multitasking limitations, although I suppose its possible that clever application of the functionality that is available may overcome some of the multitasking limitations.


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The two which I am interested in personally (Unity and Cocos2D) aren't affected but even so, it's a bit hmm.



Its too early to be sure that the likes of Unity are not affected by this, they well might be.

Enough moves like this from Apple over time could be enough to turn a lot more developers off from their platform, but Apple knows that as long as they have a platform with lots of users that download apps, developers still have compelling reasons to stick with the platform despite the crap.

Im just glad I am a web developer so anything I do for the iphone will be via the browser and it will be much easier to make the stuff work on other platforms should I decide to run far away from Apple in the future.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 9, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Oh come on. It's a disappointing feature set. Let's be honest. It gives you nothing that jailbreaking didn't do ages and ages ago. Gaming network aside.



disappointing? what where you expecting?

as for JB - any MT done was always at the sacrifice of performance.

And I think the ed should ditch his iPhone, it sounds like he has too much of a masochistic relationship going on there, can't be healthy for the guy.


----------



## elbows (Apr 9, 2010)

Well we may as well start getting people ready to be 'disappointed' by the next iphone hardware.

Plausible rumours are that it will have a higher screen resolution, front facing camera and video conferencing. Maybe it will be a bit faster. Im not expecting much else, what are others looking for?


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> Did you get all excited by the thrilling news about half-arsed multi-tasking and the ability to make folders and your own wallpaper, then? Sorry, but I found it all rather underwhelming and very disappointing as an iPhone user.
> It seems that even the multi tasking is a bit of a bodge too - and it still falls far short of what webOS can do. Will you even be able to play streamed music from a web browser while you check email etc?
> I've committed to the iPhone platform, and to be honest, I was hoping for more.



Its pretty hack and slash alright, and to be honest Jobs blaming the long time between updates on them implementing that is weak. 

Editor, I'm pretty sure audio while browsing will be possible, they way its going to be done from a developers point of view wont be nice to work with from what I understand so far.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

I think I prefer allowing a tightly controlled set of background tasks rather than a free-for-all. Coupled with save-states, that covers every sort of task-switching/multitasking that I've ever needed on the platform. No complaints here.

Restricting the development tools is a nasty trick though.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 9, 2010)

Having played with the jailbroken backgrounding on my 3G, I can see why they want the multitasking somewhat restricted - the device just does not have guts. If you leave say, the Facebook App open in the background, it pretty much slows the phone down beyond the point where it's reasonable to use.

I had a go with a 3GS this weekend, and whilst it was marginally better, it still didn't really have the power to run more than a couple of intensive apps at the same time at anything much more than I found to be a frustrating speed.


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

Oh they are really giving adobe the finger now. Your no longer allowed to use a cross compiler so all original code needs to be C,Obj-C or C++.

Flash's main selling point in CS5 was going to be allowing it to compile flash straight to the platform. Adobe are going to be really annoyed!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Apr 9, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Having played with the jailbroken backgrounding on my 3G, I can see why they want the multitasking somewhat restricted - the device just does not have guts. If you leave say, the Facebook App open in the background, it pretty much slows the phone down beyond the point where it's reasonable to use.
> 
> I had a go with a 3GS this weekend, and whilst it was marginally better, it still didn't really have the power to run more than a couple of intensive apps at the same time at anything much more than I found to be a frustrating speed.



I really haven't noticed any slowdown when running FB, Angry Birds and an 8 tab browser session all the time.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 9, 2010)

*shrug*

Magic phone, or something.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 9, 2010)

Just so people are one the same page, this is what it brings to the iPhone.

*
Notable new features for users ("tentpoles" are in bold):* 

*Multitasking.*
Spell check (like on the iPad).
Bluetooth keyboard support (again, on the iPad).
User-defined wallpaper (a jailbreak favorite).
Tap to focus when recording video, just like with photos, and a 5x digital zoom for the camera.
Playlist creation and nested playlists.
*App folders* for sorting apps! You can even put an app folder in the dock.
*Enhanced Mail!* You can have a merged inbox view, switch between inboxes quickly, and sync to more than one Exchange account. There's also threaded messaging (at last!) and in-app attachment viewing.
*iBooks*, just like on iPad, only smaller. You can wirelessly sync books between platforms, a la Kindle.
*Enterprise* features, including remote device management and wireless app distribution.
*Game Center*. It's like Xbox Live, but for iPhone games. Includes achievements, leaderboards, and match making. It will be available as a "developer preview," and out for consumers later this year.
 
*Developers are getting plenty of new tricks too:* 

New SDK, available today.
1,500 new APIs.
Background audio (think Pandora and Spotify).
Background VoIP (think Skype).
Background location data, both with live GPS for backgrounded turn-by-turn, and cell tower-based for lower power draw.
Local notifications. Like push notifications, but sends a notification straight from the app without needing a push notification server, perfect for an alarm, for instance.
Fast app switching. Saves the state of an app and resumes it from where you left off, without dwelling in memory.
*iAd*. Apple says it's for keeping "free apps free." The ads keep you in the app, while also taking over the screen and adding interactivity -- using HTML 5 for video -- up to simple gaming in-ad. Apple will offer a 60 / 40 split on revenue, and users can even buy apps straight from an ad.
In-app SMS.
Map overlays.
Quick look for previewing documents.
Photo Library access.
Calendar access.
Full access to the camera.
Video playback and capture.
Date and address "data detectors."
Automated testing and performance / power analysis (the same tools Apple uses).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 9, 2010)

In other words, it's brought them up to date with Android


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

Good thing too!


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Here's hoping you give up your iPhone for something else.





sunnysidedown said:


> And I think the ed should ditch his iPhone, it sounds like he has too much of a masochistic relationship going on there, can't be healthy for the guy.


Can you STFU with your endless personal stuff please and argue the topic instead? Thanks.

Back on topic, some fanboy sites went to extraordinarily lengths to cover this 'event.' One was blogging videos of people hanging about outside the building, and then inside having a cup of coffee. And then in the hallway. Etc etc.

Here's Engadget's take on the iPhone OS 4 beta SDK banning the use of Adobe’s Flash-to-iPhone Compiler:


> Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs. Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
> 
> What does that mean, exactly? Well, it means that technologies like Adobe's iPhone compiler in Flash CS5 won't be allowed, simply because the source code of the app that you're writing isn't in a language Apple's comfortable with. The compiler had been seen as a potential boon for Flash devs that had already been blocked out of the iPhone ecosystem for lack of a true Flash player, but Apple's found a way to block even this workaround -- technically you don't need to be using Apple's own tools, but you've got be using one of three variants of a single programming language. It's hard to say why Apple cares, exactly, but we suspect that the company would have to analyze your app pretty closely to detect variances in how the compiler produced your machine code in order to determine that you'd violated the rule.
> 
> ...



More: http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/iphone_agreement_bans_flash_compiler

Edit to add: hands-on-video here - http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/08/iphone-os-4-hands-on/


----------



## TopCat (Apr 9, 2010)

Apples announcement that it will be installing in app adverts is so revolutionary and exciting. Imagine being able to watch the latest guff for Apple and other companies  as you await your apps to load! Fuck Nokia, Apple is where it's at man. 

<high fives and claps a lot>


----------



## Sunray (Apr 9, 2010)

The ads they are talking about are actual apps you would have to download or free apps that are ad supported.  This is up to the developer of those apps to have ads in them. If you want to try it out for free seems OK to me.  If you don't want ads in your apps then just buy them.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 9, 2010)

Sunray said:


> If you want to try it out for free seems OK to me.  If you don't want ads in your apps then just buy them.



This is how a lot of Android apps work, seems a reasonable way of doing things.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 9, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> In other words, it's brought them up to date with Android



I've use Android and its OK at best so no.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

TopCat said:


> Apples announcement that it will be installing in app adverts is so revolutionary and exciting. Imagine being able to watch the latest guff for Apple and other companies  as you await your apps to load! Fuck Nokia, Apple is where it's at man.
> 
> <high fives and claps a lot>


It's just an official method for devs to include ads in their applications. Like they already do. If you don't like ads in your apps, buy the full versions, or use alternatives that don't have ads.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Ooh! Controversial!



> *Now Apple is behaving like mid-90s Microsoft*
> iPhone OS 4.0 is all about hurting Adobe and Google
> 
> Apple's iPhone OS dominates the smartphone market, and it's on 80-plus-million devices. Apple makes each one of those devices. It makes the operating system for those devices. Unless you jailbreak them, Apple's software shop is the only place you can get applications for those devices.
> ...


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

mid-90's microsoft had 90% of the PC market, apple has 25% of the smartphone market at best (RIM is still miles ahead)

their behaviour is suspect in many ways, but 'monopolistic' is inaccurate.


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> mid-90's microsoft had 90% of the PC market, apple has 25% of the smartphone market at best (RIM is still miles ahead)
> 
> their behaviour is suspect in many ways, but 'monopolistic' is inaccurate.



Exactly its a ridiculous comparison.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I think I prefer allowing a tightly controlled set of background tasks rather than a free-for-all. Coupled with save-states, that covers every sort of task-switching/multitasking that I've ever needed on the platform. No complaints here.
> 
> Restricting the development tools is a nasty trick though.



Nail on the head, and I think the benefits of your last comment will _eventually_ be worth it.



editor said:


> Can you STFU with your endless personal stuff please and argue the topic instead? Thanks.



lol - you mentioned your iPhone, I gave you a friendly suggestion... (i would say that was on topic)

btw, have you JB'd yours ed?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 9, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I've use Android and its OK at best so no.



My HTC dream has just been delivered, sorry, it makes the iPhone OS look _ancient_...


----------



## Sunray (Apr 9, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> My HTC dream has just been delivered, sorry, it makes the iPhone OS look _ancient_...



The dream Android experience is nearly identical to the G1's, its still Android with that daft clock that looked daft when it was released and its still there.

Hows the cut and paste coming along then?


----------



## sim667 (Apr 9, 2010)

Ive got 4.0 beta to install when i get home...... soon after its done im going to get my freinds to line up down the road so i can run down them whooping and giving hi fives....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Oh come on. It's a disappointing feature set. Let's be honest. It gives you nothing that jailbreaking didn't do ages and ages ago. Gaming network aside.



Can you have multiple exchange accounts via jailbreaking? (genuine question)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2010)

elbows said:


> Well we may as well start getting people ready to be 'disappointed' by the next iphone hardware.
> 
> Plausible rumours are that it will have a higher screen resolution, front facing camera and video conferencing. Maybe it will be a bit faster. Im not expecting much else, what are others looking for?



I'd like at least a 30% improvement on battery life, wouldn't mind the device being a bit thinner too...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> mid-90's microsoft had 90% of the PC market, apple has 25% of the smartphone market at best (RIM is still miles ahead)
> 
> their behaviour is suspect in many ways, but 'monopolistic' is inaccurate.



Yep but then the anti Apple brigade don't appreciate the concepts of proportion and objectivity...


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'd like at least a 30% improvement on battery life, wouldn't mind the device being a bit thinner too...



So 30% more juice in a smaller form factor, that aint going to happen.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

this year's iphone will have the A4 processor, flash for the camera and _maybe_ a forward facing camera. As for the 2x resolution screen, I doubt it. There's nobody making panels of that pixel density in that size right now and there would be rumours from the SE asian manufacturures by now if such a part existed.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> lol - you mentioned your iPhone, I gave you a friendly suggestion... (i would say that was on topic)
> 
> btw, have you JB'd yours ed?


(a) Seeing I don't believe you're capable of independent critical thought on this matter, I'm not interested in your 'friendly suggestions' about my choice of  handset, thanks.

(b) No. I don't buy phones to then embark on an endless cycle of jailbreaking.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep but then the anti Apple brigade don't appreciate the concepts of proportion and objectivity...


Do you believe the writer of that piece to be part of this bizarre "anti Apple brigade" that you're endlessly banging on about? And do you think his points are all totally invalid?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> Do you believe the writer of that piece to be part of this bizarre "anti Apple brigade" that you're endlessly banging on about? And do you think his points are all totally invalid?



I think I've used the term only a handful of times in the last five years so I don't think it's fair to say I'm endlessly banging it...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 9, 2010)

Sunray said:


> The dream Android experience is nearly identical to the G1's, its still Android with that daft clock that looked daft when it was released and its still there.



Errrr, it's rather improved on the G1. You do seem rather hung up on a clock though. It's a widget, you don't have to have it.

Speaking of Widgets, they make using the phone so much easier, having my calendar, facebook status feed, weather etc right there on the screen is fab.



> Hows the cut and paste coming along then?



On the Dream?  It's fantastic, not sure what your point is...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 9, 2010)

Follow up piece by Gruber on the dev toolkit t&c changes: http://daringfireball.net/2010/04/why_apple_changed_section_331

This has clear predictions of which groups will be affected and why, which I would broadly agree with. For most iPhone developers it won't make much difference. For flash developers it will make a lot of difference. For users, it probably won't matter.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 9, 2010)

The components that make these phones are commodity parts these days.  Everyone phone maker is using them.  When the iPhone 3G was released, if you broke the screen it would cost > 100 quid to replace it all.  I looked the other day and the whole lot was 30 including all the tools you needed.  I doubt there is much they could add to it to be frank.

I think its just going to be very similar to the 3GS but with the iPad A4 processor (which x-rays have unveiled to be similar to the Cortex A8 CPU) and perhaps a better IPS screen?  Unless they go mad and put an AMOLED screen in there but the tech for that working well outdoor has only really been released this year so its unlikely.  This would improve the battery.

Swappable battery, but that's very minor issue from my experience of using it.  Mine is still going along just fine and its nearly two years old.

I would like some buttons for game playing, or some low profile add on to allow me to game play games without touching the screen.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I think I've used the term only a handful of times in the last five years so I don't think it's fair to say I'm endlessly banging it...


You must have big hands  

So, back to the point. Do you believe the writer of that piece to be part of this bizarre "anti Apple brigade"? And do you think his points are all totally invalid?


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> (a) Seeing I don't believe you're capable of independent critical thought on this matter



really? and why is that?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> (b) No. I don't buy phones to then embark on an endless cycle of jailbreaking.



I resisted jailbreaking mine until it was at least out of warranty.

However, it was very easy and totally painless to do.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> really? and why is that?


That's my personal opinion based on your posts here. I don't want to hear your "suggestions" about what phone I should be using, thanks. End of.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 9, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> My HTC dream has just been delivered, sorry, it makes the iPhone OS look _ancient_...



Other than the keyboard, what so good about it? Their website is extolling the virtues of google search and streetmaps, hardly ground breaking stuff.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Other than the keyboard, what so good about it? Their website is extolling the virtues of google search and streetmaps, hardly ground breaking stuff.



I was wondering that...for me to dump the iPhone the apps have to be shit hot, music has to be easy to sync, and it needs to equal my mobile web experience.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 9, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Errrr, it's rather improved on the G1. You do seem rather hung up on a clock though. It's a widget, you don't have to have it.
> 
> Speaking of Widgets, they make using the phone so much easier, having my calendar, facebook status feed, weather etc right there on the screen is fab.
> 
> ...



You pointed out that the update brought it up to Android when actually you can paste from one app to another unless it supports it.  

I can paste images from Safari to the SMS and MMS them to you.  Been able to do that for ages.   

Still waiting for android.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Other than the keyboard, what so good about it? Their website is extolling the virtues of google search and streetmaps, hardly ground breaking stuff.


Massively bigger screen, much better camera plus flash, Flash support (huzzah!) and FM radio for starters.


http://www.esato.com/phones/compare.php?phone=604&cp=460


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 9, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> I gave you a friendly suggestion...



I'm afraid that's known as an 'unprovoked personal attack' round these parts. Do keep up


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I can paste images from Safari to the SMS and MMS them to you.  Been able to do that for ages.


How many times have you actually done that though? For me = 0.

I'd find a bigger screen/Flash support and a FM radio far more useful.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> I'm afraid that's known as an 'unprovoked personal attack' round these parts. Do keep up


Oh look, the resident shit stirrer's back!

Nothing useful to add, of course, but always ready to have a pop.

You need to get over it, really.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 9, 2010)

I was just looking at HTC sense add on for Android, its a got full cut and paste.  How does it work?  *Exactly* like the iPhones.  No bones about it, direct rip.  Hold for magnifier let go, for up and down drag sticks.

Got to love the Taiwanese.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> That's my personal opinion based on your posts here. I don't want to hear your "suggestions" about what phone I should be using, thanks. End of.



you didn't hear any suggestion from me about what phone you _should_ be using, because I didn't make one...

you said that I wasn't capable of independent critical thought on this matter, I think that's a tad unfair tbh - but it's your _personal_ opinion which you are welcome to, I mean afaic you are incapable of adding anything _constructive_ to the majority of discussions regarding Apple products, and instead turn up with your arms full of cut & paste articles bemoaning this and that, which you then appear to hide behind repeating ad nauseum - my _own personal opinion based on your posts of course_


----------



## Sunray (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> How many times have you actually done that though? For me = 0.
> 
> I'd find a bigger screen/Flash support and a FM radio far more useful.



Quite a lot.  Its kinda fun when a quirky picture says it better.

Bigger screen makes it bigger in my pocket and I don't want that, its already pushing it in the size stakes.  FM radio I will never use.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 9, 2010)

Was this thread merged with the Desire one or something?


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> Oh look, the resident shit stirrer's back!


Err, Fuck You.



editor said:


> Nothing useful to add, of course


 "Bosh!"



editor said:


> You need to get over it, really.



You need to get over yourself, frankly.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Was this thread merged with the Desire one or something?


 Inevitable comparison, no? I believe the iPhone is also being discussed in the Desire thread too.


----------



## ooo (Apr 9, 2010)

I've just noticed the 'Rating' on top.
How come this thread has it and the others don't?


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

ooo said:


> I've just noticed the 'Rating' on top.
> How come this thread has it and the others don't?


It was an experimental feature we tried out. No one used it and we haven't  been arsed to turn it off.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> Massively bigger screen, much better camera plus flash, Flash support (huzzah!) and FM radio for starters.
> 
> 
> http://www.esato.com/phones/compare.php?phone=604&cp=460



Nothing particularly ground-breaking then. I was thinking more OS-wise than hardware wise. 
Not particular enamoured by increased dot pitch, doesn't really make much difference in practice (and depends on how well your OS does sub-pixel anti-aliasing), though I would expect the new iPhone to at least come up to the Dream's resolution.
Don't really want Flash on a phone (but I would want it on a netbook/ipad), FM radio isn't bad (though since moving abroad I never listen to the radio, I usually stream BBC Radio at home), though I hear rumours it may be incorporated into the new iPhone. Nah not really impressed, damn fugly fone too. But I am keeping an eye on the Android platform as its lack of walled-garden and respect of its developers is a good thing.

I have to say I'm a bit disappointed that notifications haven't been revamped in iPhone 4.0 - more could be shown on the lock-screen. Already if I get a notification from facebook it'll overwrite any SMS I may have missed.


----------



## Leafster (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> Massively bigger screen, much better camera plus flash, Flash support (huzzah!) and FM radio for starters.
> 
> 
> http://www.esato.com/phones/compare.php?phone=604&cp=460


Is that comparison 100% accurate? It says the 3GS isn't capable of voice-dialling but I discovered yesterday it can. 

It also says the 3GS doesn't do voice-memos when it can.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 9, 2010)

Leafster said:


> Is that comparison 100% accurate? It says the 3GS isn't capable of voice-dialling but I discovered yesterday it can.
> 
> It also says the 3GS doesn't do voice-memos when it can.



I noticed that, it seems to be compared to the 3G not the 3GS


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Was this thread merged with the Desire one or something?



Nah there's just been a moderation break down...


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> Massively bigger screen, much better camera plus flash, Flash support (huzzah!) and FM radio for starters.
> 
> 
> http://www.esato.com/phones/compare.php?phone=604&cp=460


erratum:

the iphone geotags its photos
the iphone has a voice memo recorder

anyway, as sunray says, the hardware's all the same these days - a hires screen, a battery, an ARM processor and 16+GB of storage. All the difference is in the software.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> an ARM processor


 
Running at 600MHz to the Desire's 1Ghz.

Its capable if 1Ghz according to the web. Which makes me go hmm has anyone overclocked a 3GS?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

no idea

raw MHz isn't particularly important either, depending on the software


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> no idea
> 
> raw MHz isn't particularly important either, depending on the software



If its comparisons of the same chipset, it certainly is.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

grit said:


> If its comparisons of the same chipset, it certainly is.


but really, so long as the machine responds and behaves smoothly, who cares what mega-wotsits it has? you can make shitty software run like crap on a 3GHz Core 2, or you can make lean optimised software run silky smooth on a 600MHz ARM. It's the experience that matters.


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> but really, so long as the machine responds and behaves smoothly, who cares what mega-wotsits it has? you can make shitty software run like crap on a 3GHz Core 2, or you can make lean optimised software run silky smooth on a 600MHz ARM. It's the experience that matters.



Yes I get your point, but the lower mhz will cause issues for possible innovations down the line. Just because right now there isint an issue that has no bearing on the future.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

grit said:


> Yes I get your point, but the lower mhz will cause issues for possible innovations down the line. Just because right now there isint an issue that has no bearing on the future.


Fair point, I suppose. Mobile phones go through a pretty quick upgrade cycle though, so not too critical


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Fair point, I suppose. Mobile phones go through a pretty quick upgrade cycle though, so not too critical



2 years is not that quick.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 9, 2010)

Its a balance, future proofing but not over-doing it because the industry encourages the upgrade cycle of future product consumption.

Apple seem to sell lower future proofed specs but lock people into longer contracts. You are desperate for their next phone by the time you are allowed to buy one.


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Its a balance, future proofing but not over-doing it because the industry encourages the upgrade cycle of future product consumption.
> 
> Apple seem to sell lower future proofed specs but lock people into longer contracts. You are desperate for their next phone by the time you are allowed to buy one.



Having lower powered hardware is like an Apple design feature at this stage.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 9, 2010)

600MHZ was near the top of the pile when the 3GS launched, and an A4 an 1GHZ will be comparably well equipped, won't it? It's only a couple of months away. Will there be anything faster at launch?


----------



## Gromit (Apr 9, 2010)

Crispy said:


> 600MHZ was near the top of the pile when the 3GS launched, and an A4 an 1GHZ will be comparably well equipped, won't it? It's only a couple of months away. Will there be anything faster at launch?


 
It can run at 1Ghz though. So they deliberately nerfed the speed instead of maxing it. So that later they could release they woo even faster 1Ghz version, despite it being the same chip.

However their plan has been foiled by someone else going 1Ghz first.


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

iPhone blog lists what it thinks is missing from v4.0.

I *really* miss the notification system of webOS. 

http://www.tipb.com/2010/04/09/iphone-40-missing


----------



## Structaural (Apr 9, 2010)

grit said:


> 2 years is not that quick.



They've upgraded the iPhone on a pretty much yearly basis. The reason for the underclocking is to preserve battery power - the iPod Touch is clocked higher for instance as battery preservation isn't such an issue.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> iPhone blog lists what it thinks is missing from v4.0.
> 
> I *really* miss the notification system of webOS.
> 
> http://www.tipb.com/2010/04/09/iphone-40-missing



Yeah they would have been very cool for the iPhone, no idea why they don't. There's already something similar, when you are in a call and push home the call is reduced to a glowing green strip, why can't they have notifications use a similar visual style?


----------



## Structaural (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> iPhone blog lists what it thinks is missing from v4.0.
> 
> I *really* miss the notification system of webOS.
> 
> http://www.tipb.com/2010/04/09/iphone-40-missing



Should be some great jailbroken apps/widgets coming up, but yeah Apple could have done a lot more with the lockscreen/widget/SBSsettings type thing. You can't even page back through the notifications you get, which is a bit crap when it's such a big part of their low-power multi-tasking.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 9, 2010)

editor said:


> iPhone blog lists what it thinks is missing from v4.0.
> 
> I *really* miss the notification system of webOS.
> 
> http://www.tipb.com/2010/04/09/iphone-40-missing



All about priorities.

The next update might well fix it, might come sooner than that one, because that was a bemoth of an update.  Might not be obvious to users but its a massive amount of work to get all that done and dusted.  Quite possibly why its not come with the iPad.


----------



## grit (Apr 9, 2010)

Regarding how developers have gotten fucked about with the announcements this is a great summary.

http://whydoeseverythingsuck.com/2010/04/steve-jobs-has-just-gone-mad.html

"If you need to "originally" write your code in Swahili, while listening to Milli Vanilli, while reclining in a patch of mud, and then you need fifty oompa loompas to translate the Swahili into C, that is none of Steve Jobs fucking business."


----------



## editor (Apr 9, 2010)

grit said:


> Regarding how developers have gotten fucked about with the announcements this is a great summary.
> 
> http://whydoeseverythingsuck.com/2010/04/steve-jobs-has-just-gone-mad.html
> 
> "If you need to "originally" write your code in Swahili, while listening to Milli Vanilli, while reclining in a patch of mud, and then you need fifty oompa loompas to translate the Swahili into C, that is none of Steve Jobs fucking business."





> This is akin to telling people what kind of desk people sit at when they write software for the iPhone. Or perhaps what kind of music they listen to. Or what kind of clothes they should be wearing. This is *INSANE*.


That's a great piece, and there's some interesting stuff in the reader comments too.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 10, 2010)

editor said:


> That's a great piece, and there's some interesting stuff in the reader comments too.



Great?

I agree though there is some interesting comments, like this one:

_All this does is prevent native code not compiled with Apple's tools - that's it. It doesn't prevent you from using a third party generator in order to spew out Objective C based on some other language, but that code must be compiled using Apple's development tools. If Adobe creates a tool that spits out an XCode project there is NO effective way for Apple to prevent you from compiling it.

What Apple is trying to do here is to enforce their ability to openly examine and manipulate the running code processes of your application from within their OS, and they need to do that in order to elegantly handle multitasking the way they want to. If you write a web application in JS and that application is running inside someone else's implementation of a native wrapper, executing calls to native code functions through some proprietary format that you invented, they can't do that. While I agree that this is a pain, I don't see this being the terrific slap in the face many people take it to be._


----------



## editor (Apr 10, 2010)

An Adobe employee is most definitely not happy about recent developments:



> This has nothing to do whatsoever with bringing the Flash player to Apple’s devices. That is a separate discussion entirely. What they are saying is that they won’t allow applications onto their marketplace solely because of what language was originally used to create them. This is a frightening move that has no rational defense other than wanting tyrannical control over developers and more importantly, wanting to use developers as pawns in their crusade against Adobe. This does not just affect Adobe but also other technologies like Unity3D.
> 
> http://mashable.com/2010/04/09/apple-adobe-flash-ban/





> Adobe and Apple has had a long relationship and each has helped the other get where they are today. The fact that Apple would make such a hostile and despicable move like this clearly shows the difference between our two companies. All we want is to provide creative professionals an avenue to deploy their work to as many devices as possible. We are not looking to kill anything or anyone. This would be like us putting something in our SDK to make it impossible for third-party editors like [Flash Development Tool] to work with our platform. I can tell you that we wouldn't even think or consider something like that.
> 
> Many of Adobe’s supporters have mentioned that we should discontinue the Creative Suite products on OS X as a form of retaliation. Again, this is something that Adobe would never consider in a million years. We are not looking to abuse our loyal users and make them pawns for the sake of trying to hurt another company. What is clear is that Apple most definitely would do that sort of thing as is evidenced by their recent behavior.



And it gets more heated:


> Now let me put aside my role as an official representative of Adobe for a moment as I would look to make it clear what is going through my mind at the moment. Go screw yourself Apple



Adobe blog post here: http://theflashblog.com/?p=1888

Ouch!


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 10, 2010)

Haha fun and games but Adobe aren't going to change Apple's mind so what's the point..?


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 10, 2010)

I'm just waiting for that _well used_ clip of hitler to turn up...


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## editor (Apr 10, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> I'm just waiting for that _well used_ clip of hitler to turn up...


You might be in for a long wait because I'm pretty sure that most of us here are more interested in talking about developments related to the phone.

Least I am...


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 10, 2010)

> Many of Adobe’s supporters have mentioned that we should discontinue the Creative Suite products on OS X as a form of retaliation.


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## editor (Apr 10, 2010)

And back on topic, Apple's latest move seems to be upsetting more and more people:



> *Apple's New iPhone App Policy: Unreasonable and Unjustifiable*
> 
> Joe Hewitt, who programmed the iPhone's Facebook application, lashed out against the updated   developer's agreement on his Twitter stream.
> 
> ...


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 10, 2010)

editor said:


> You might be in for a long wait because I'm pretty sure that most of us here are more interested in talking about developments related to the phone.
> 
> Least I am...



good for you squire.

you do know the clip I refer to? the one trotted out every other week showing old aldof kicking off (complete with _humorous_ subtitles referring to some sport/political/... news item?) It won't be long till there is one featuring hitler as the CEO of Adobe hearing about OS 4.0.

although having already seen a few variations of these myself, the humour factor has worn a little thin...


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 10, 2010)

Oh god the world does NOT need another fucking Downfall 'parody'...


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 10, 2010)

editor said:


> An Adobe employee is most definitely not happy about recent developments:
> 
> And it gets more heated:
> 
> ...



that's a rather embarrassing rant there, looks like Adobe has stepped in and told him to delete/change a few things.



> Comments disabled as I’m not interested in hearing from the Cupertino Comment SPAM bots.



Someone give him his milkshake back.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 10, 2010)

Twitter have just bought Tweetie, it'll become free and be renamed Twitter for iPhone.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 10, 2010)

good break down of OS 4.0 here

I'm sure some keen eyed folk will notice the change from 'google' to 'search'.


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## hendo (Apr 10, 2010)

I don't know much about computing languages but it does seem to me that restricting technical freedoms cripples the ability to innovate. And despite Apple's brilliance this strategy will eventually bite them on the bum when someone else comes up with better phones and gadgets.


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## editor (Apr 10, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> you do know the clip I refer to? the one trotted out every other week showing old aldof kicking off (complete with _humorous_ subtitles referring to some sport/political/... news item?) It won't be long till there is one featuring hitler as the CEO of Adobe hearing about OS 4.0.
> 
> although having already seen a few variations of these myself, the humour factor has worn a little thin...


Why are you banging on about a clip that apparently hasn't even been made?


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 10, 2010)

editor said:


> Why are you banging on about a clip that apparently hasn't even been made?



what? the 'computers, OSs, phones & gadgets' forum has a fair amount of threads banging on about things that haven't yet been made 

Ars gets the boot into Apple here


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## editor (Apr 10, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> what? the 'computers, OSs, phones & gadgets' forum has a fair amount of threads banging on about things that haven't yet been made
> 
> Ars gets the boot into Apple here


What do you think of the article's conclusion? It's more or less what I've been saying for ages.


> Apple's current—and in our opinion, objectionable—position is now close to the complete opposite of its initial stance.
> 
> From promoting openness and standards, the company is now pushing for an ever more locked-down and restricted platform. It's bad for competition, it's bad for developers, and it's bad for consumers.
> 
> I hope that there will be enough of a backlash that the company is forced to reconsider, but with the draw of all those millions of iPhone (and now, iPad) customers, I fear that Apple's developers will, perhaps with some reluctance, just accept the restriction and do whatever Cupertino demands.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 10, 2010)

editor said:


> What do you think of the article's conclusion? It's more or less what I've been saying for ages.



well it certainly makes for better reading than that crazy Adobe guy's blog post.

The thing is I'm actually in favour of Apple's decision here _in the long run_, I do however feel just a little bit of sympathy for Adobe due to the timing of this and CS5 - at the same time we are dealing with the _mobile_ market here which is a totally different beast. Of course devs and users have the luxury of choice here and can go and use Android for instance if Apple's practices leave a nasty taste in their mouths, I for one prefer Apples model - that doesn't mean I think it's perfect, far from it, I've had many, many issues with Apple and their choices/decisions over the years!

The Ars piece mentions how this will hurt Android, but one of the posts on that article makes a good point :



> I'll preface this a bit. I do mobile games for a major game company, so my experience is with games and not application development.
> 
> I now do almost all our work in C++ only, we use external C functions to filter out any necessary OS based calls and languages (like Objective C which wont compile with straight C++ files). With this approach, we generally only have 5 areas that change between platforms. Graphics, File I/O, Sound, Main App/Window creation, and our internal Image class.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Apr 10, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> The thing is I'm actually in favour of Apple's decision here _in the long run_, I do however feel just a little bit of sympathy for Adobe due to the timing of this and CS5 - at the same time we are dealing with the _mobile_ market here which is a totally different beast.


Really? You're an advocate for an even more locked-down and restricted platform?


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 10, 2010)

editor said:


> Really? You're an advocate for an even more locked-down and restricted platform?



the main thing here is user experience, apple knows that if all apps are compiled to their spec then they are not going to get any _potential_ issues arising from wrapped applications after a software update (for instance), and yes it's about restricting to a degree, which is not necessarilly a bad thing in my book.

I am looking forward to watching the development of a more open system like Android, that should be interesting to compare as seperate models.


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## magneze (Apr 10, 2010)

It's a stupid restriction, you can write shit code in Objective C in the same way you can write it in any language. Restricting development like this is short-sighted and fast tracks the iPhone to a Mac-like niche market. Apple have made the mobile market all about the apps - Android already makes it loads easier to develop apps, now Apple makes it even harder to develop on their own platform? I can imagine the scenes in Apple tbh - loads of devs going "wtf, this is stupid", with execs going "yeah, this will show Adobe et al". Guess who really knows what they're talking about though.


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## Structaural (Apr 10, 2010)

> If we’re going to ban inefficient code that’s the product of a poor cross-platform porting framework and results in a goddamn awful app, Apple could have the decency to ban their own Windows port of iTunes.




from the comments on this article


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 10, 2010)

magneze said:


> It's a stupid restriction, you can write shit code in Objective C in the same way you can write it in any language. Restricting development like this is short-sighted and fast tracks the iPhone to a Mac-like niche market. Apple have made the mobile market all about the apps - Android already makes it loads easier to develop apps, now Apple makes it even harder to develop on their own platform? I can imagine the scenes in Apple tbh - loads of devs going "wtf, this is stupid", with execs going "yeah, this will show Adobe et al". Guess who really knows what they're talking about though.



but shit code in Obj C will still be nativelly compiled (with all those benefits) and _future proof_. if you're meaning that the app may look like a piece of shit then fair enough 

If OS 4.0 results in cleaning up all the shovelware currently stacked up in the app store, and moves all the potential Flash wrappers/converters to other platforms, I think that will be a good thing. There is a lot of faux emotion doing the rounds at the moment and if the result is certain devs moving away from the iPhone then fair enough - it's about quality not quantity, and if that means missing out on some potentially great apps then thats a risk that has to be taken.

But it's early days still.


----------



## grit (Apr 10, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> but shit code in Obj C will still be nativelly compiled (with all those benefits) and _future proof_. if you're meaning that the app may look like a piece of shit then fair enough
> 
> If OS 4.0 results in cleaning up all the shovelware currently stacked up in the app store, and moves all the potential Flash wrappers/converters to other platforms, I think that will be a good thing. There is a lot of faux emotion doing the rounds at the moment and if the result is certain devs moving away from the iPhone then fair enough - it's about quality not quantity, and if that means missing out on some potentially great apps then thats a risk that has to be taken.
> 
> But it's early days still.



This is all about raising the barriers of entry to produce applications for the iPhone OS. Whats the count on the app store 150,000? something like that. 

They need a way to filter out some of the less professional developers and hopefully improve the quality of the applications.


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## Sunray (Apr 10, 2010)

magneze said:


> It's a stupid restriction, you can write shit code in Objective C in the same way you can write it in any language. Restricting development like this is short-sighted and fast tracks the iPhone to a Mac-like niche market. Apple have made the mobile market all about the apps - Android already makes it loads easier to develop apps, now Apple makes it even harder to develop on their own platform? I can imagine the scenes in Apple tbh - loads of devs going "wtf, this is stupid", with execs going "yeah, this will show Adobe et al". Guess who really knows what they're talking about though.



Yeah but its way easier to developer for the iPhone because there is just the one screen size and cpu and input technology.

Android has busted this out to multi-platform hell, with every combination possible plus add on skins that do stuff like the droid and the sense UI from Motorola and HTC.


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## magneze (Apr 10, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> but shit code in Obj C will still be nativelly compiled (with all those benefits) and _future proof_. if you're meaning that the app may look like a piece of shit then fair enough
> 
> If OS 4.0 results in cleaning up all the shovelware currently stacked up in the app store, and moves all the potential Flash wrappers/converters to other platforms, I think that will be a good thing. There is a lot of faux emotion doing the rounds at the moment and if the result is certain devs moving away from the iPhone then fair enough - it's about quality not quantity, and if that means missing out on some potentially great apps then thats a risk that has to be taken.
> 
> But it's early days still.


That's my point though, it's not going to do anything about quality.


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## magneze (Apr 10, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Yeah but its way easier to developer for the iPhone because there is just the one screen size and cpu and input technology.
> 
> Android has busted this out to multi-platform hell, with every combination possible plus add on skins that do stuff like the droid and the sense UI from Motorola and HTC.


Just developing for a single platform is pretty limiting though, unless you're sure it's going to become the dominant platform. The restrictions about using non-Apple hardware to develop the app on had already turned me off looking at it as a dev platform. This new restriction only reinforces that decision for me. I can see it being quietly reversed tbh.


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## grit (Apr 10, 2010)

magneze said:


> Just developing for a single platform is pretty limiting though, unless you're sure it's going to become the dominant platform. The restrictions about using non-Apple hardware to develop the app on had already turned me off looking at it as a dev platform. This new restriction only reinforces that decision for me. I can see it being quietly reversed tbh.



Yeah, but if your target market is consumers you have to support it. Fragmentation is the cost of doing business.


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## magneze (Apr 10, 2010)

grit said:


> Yeah, but if your target market is consumers you have to support it. Fragmentation is the cost of doing business.


I don't think you have to. If it had >50% market share then you might be able to make that argument, but it's 25% and dropping.


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## editor (Apr 10, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> the main thing here is user experience,  apple knows that if all apps are compiled to their spec then they are  not going to get any _potential_ issues arising from wrapped  applications after a software update (for instance), and yes it's about  restricting to a degree, which is not necessarilly a bad thing in my  book.


Funny thing is, I don't see people suffering so terribly on  platforms that aren't so ridiculously closed as Apple's.


sunnysidedown said:


> If OS 4.0 results in cleaning up all the shovelware currently stacked up in the app store,...


How's it going to do that then? Apple seems very keen to trumpet the amount of apps available at every opportunity, even if a substantial amount of them are of very dubious merit.


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## elbows (Apr 10, 2010)

grit said:


> This is all about raising the barriers of entry to produce applications for the iPhone OS. Whats the count on the app store 150,000? something like that.
> 
> They need a way to filter out some of the less professional developers and hopefully improve the quality of the applications.



I dont think thats the primary aim. More likely they want lots of software exclusives for the iphone and dont want it to be too easy for developers to port their apps to other platforms. Even that isnt the only factor, Ive droned on about all the other reasons Apple dont like flash etc several times before.


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## elbows (Apr 10, 2010)

But having said that they did do some other stuff recently to weed out a range of apps that were very basic and knocked together via 3rd party 'app template' type systems.


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## Sunray (Apr 10, 2010)

I don't see what there is to complain about?  The iPhone does x things and Apple have y restrictions.

If you don't like x and y there is plenty of other phones out there that are supposedly as good or better.  Work with them and make those platforms more attractive than the iPhone.  

The iPhone still wins for me because Apple are putting a lot of effort into developing the platform.


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## grit (Apr 10, 2010)

magneze said:


> I don't think you have to. If it had >50% market share then you might be able to make that argument, but it's 25% and dropping.



Its not just raw numbers, iPhone owners are the demograph that have proven themselves to make purchases. The average iPhone owner is interested in and willing to pay for applications.


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## OneStrike (Apr 10, 2010)

Just to add a little sub topic, never get your iphone wet, even in rain, it broke mine and liquid damage voids your warranty grrrr.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Funny thing is, I don't see people suffering so terribly on  platforms that aren't so ridiculously closed as Apple's.



I don't think anyone is really suffering anywhere so whats the problem? people have a choice between platforms and what works best for them.

If you're referring to Adobe to Adobe suffering and it's Flash users who want to wrap up there stuff for the iPhone then it isn't going to happen, it's not as if Flash has been available on the iPhone anyway - all it means is that one export option from one particular Adobe application will not work on one particular mobile platform - a platform which makes up for what? 28% of the market (forgive me if i'm off the mark here).

Obviously there will be those caught in the cross-fire, but they too have a choice, and we still need to see how this pans out - also this new clause is a more defined rewording of a previous clause, and as elbows (i think)  has mentioned, Apple have already been pulling wrapped apps from the store.



editor said:


> Apple seems very keen to trumpet the amount of apps available at every opportunity, even if a substantial amount of them are of very dubious merit.



For the time being yes, of course they want to show the App store as being a success and let everyone know how many applications there are... but long term it's not about the numbers, they've reached saturation point already and this is a move to start rectifying the situation.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 11, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I don't see what there is to complain about?  The iPhone does x things and Apple have y restrictions.
> 
> If you don't like x and y there is plenty of other phones out there that are supposedly as good or better.  Work with them and make those platforms more attractive than the iPhone.
> 
> The iPhone still wins for me because Apple are putting a lot of effort into developing the platform.



exactly.

the internet is awash with people pissing in their knickers over this - even Arstechnica have joined in on the hysteria.


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## elbows (Apr 11, 2010)

There are obviously some things worth complaining about. Not everyone shares those complaints, fine. That doesnt mean those that do have concerns or complaints can be brushed off as irrelevant. There are legitimate reasons for concern, especially from some developers. I wouldnt go as far as to call it hysteria but yes it does get a lot of attention, with both the good and bad of apple and the iphone getting more attention than is really needed in recent years. But it is a high profile device, with games being played by a variety of corporations and the stakes are high.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 11, 2010)

elbows said:


> There are obviously some things worth complaining about. Not everyone shares those complaints, fine. That doesnt mean those that do have concerns or complaints can be brushed off as irrelevant.



I'm not saying it's irrelevant for devs (i'm not concerned for Adobe and it's wrappers), I'm interested in how this pans out for the devs themselves, but there will be choices to make ahead, and that is not necessarily a bad thing.

This is not exactly a new modus operandi for Apple, they have been like this since the 80's - if you don't like their methods, go someplace else. (that's not aimed at you btw)



elbows said:


> There are legitimate reasons for concern, especially from some developers.



Apple is not going to allow code that has not been compiled to their spec on their OS on their device, how you get to that point is the issue, and we have yet to see what effects this will have (besides the obvious). 
If Apple's intention is to get dedicated iPhone devs producing applications to their spec on their platform, I think that would be of great benefit to the end user.

An example - there has always been a huge amount of more software available on the Windows platform than on the Mac, this has not stopped dedicated Mac software developers creating some wonderful applications that I could not honestly live without and which are not available on any other platform. On windows you may find over a dozen apps tailored to one specific task, on the mac 3 or 4, this to me is a good thing, I know that I can spend a week or so testing a couple of these to find the one that best suits me, instead of trying to test over half a dozen of them. Obviously this will not suit everyone, that does not surprise me, what does surprise me is the huge outcry going on in comment sections all over the net.* (and the annoying thing here is that the majority of negative posts are just the usual shit slinging anti-Apple crap that gets brought up all the time, instead of informative and constructive criticism by actual devs, who are the only people this will effect).

* actually that does not surprise me anymore these days...


----------



## editor (Apr 11, 2010)

Interesting discussion from devs - and some responses fromJ obs - here: http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/



> The Mac has only been helped by the fact that Firefox, Ableton Live, and hundreds of other high-quality applications can run on it thanks to the fact that developers have a choice as to what tools they can use on it.
> 
> Crappy developers will make crappy apps regardless of how many layers there are, and it doesn’t make sense to limit source-to-source conversion tools like Unity3D and others. They’re all building apps through the iPhone developer tools in the end so the situation isn’t even comparable to the Mac where applications can completely avoid using Apple’s frameworks by replacing them with others.
> 
> In my opinion, 3.3.1 only serves to make the platform less attractive to legitimate developers, giving them reason to write their software for competing platforms instead.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Interesting discussion from devs - and some responses fromJ obs - here: http://www.taoeffect.com/blog/2010/04/steve-jobs-response-on-section-3-3-1/



he misses the point when talking about Mac software development, we are discussing the _mobile_ platform here & it's OS, it is a completely different beast to the desktop platform and it's OS.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 11, 2010)

I think the Jobs comment about Grubers post being insightful is interesting.

here's a bit of that post: 



> I don’t think Apple even dreams of a Windows-like share of the mobile market. Microsoft’s mantra was (and remains) “Windows everywhere”. Apple doesn’t want everywhere, they just want everywhere good. The idea though, is to establish the Cocoa Touch APIs and the App Store as a de facto standard for mobile apps — huge share of both developers and users.
> 
> So what Apple does not want is for some other company to establish a de facto standard software platform on top of Cocoa Touch. Not Adobe’s Flash. Not .NET (through MonoTouch). If that were to happen, there’s no lock-in advantage. If, say, a mobile Flash software platform — which encompassed multiple lower-level platforms, running on iPhone, Android, Windows Phone 7, and BlackBerry — were established, that app market would not give people a reason to prefer the iPhone.
> 
> ...



rest here


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 11, 2010)

good article here on the Apple v Adobe Flash Myths.


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## paolo (Apr 11, 2010)

It amuses me to note that, in all of this, the urban forums are pleasantly free of irritating 'enhanced' content. Users aren't free to post videos, avatars, sigs and all that other dross that drags down (for me) other forum sites.

And I doubt a "post conversion tool" (that would - say - copy ones posts from another forum) would get much truck here either.

Editor's unwavering views on how a forum _should_ be done is a huge asset. But perhaps he should also see a little of Jobs in himself. He'll hate that observation, but I mean it as compliment, not a point-score.


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## magneze (Apr 11, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> he misses the point when talking about Mac software development, we are discussing the _mobile_ platform here & it's OS, it is a completely different beast to the desktop platform and it's OS.


How is it different? I really don't think it is. It's less mature that's all.


----------



## elbows (Apr 11, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> good article here on the Apple v Adobe Flash Myths.



That article is a tad over the top in several places but it does have some points.  The one I most agree with is that there has been no really good mobile version of flash, this is changing but its well overdue and thats nobodies fault but Adobe. OK its also because mobile hardware didnt have enough grunt till recent years but Adobe still failed to position itself to be able to take advantage of new developements in hardware quickly enough.

There have been many occasions in the last 10 years when I've toying with going with flash, but either the tools or the results put me off before I got through the 30 day trial. The rendering quality from flash always annoyed me, along with sluggishness in certain areas that left me underwhelmed. That hasnt stopped lots of people from doing good things with flash, but there has long been an opportunity to usurp flash by doing things better.

Its not like Apple are Adobes only cause of concern either. While Google may be supporting flash in all sorts of ways, they have also been doing things that may kill flash by offering better alternatives. The Quake 2 demo that uses WebGL & an assortment of HTML5 features is a good example. And years before any of these things, AJAX was offering a more dynamic web without the downsides of flash, stuff that devs could have done using flash for years but didnt because either the development experience/cost or end-user experience was not good enough. I see Apples stance as accelerating a trend that was already happening - it inconveniences some users along the way but it probably gets web developers & users to a better place more quickly than would otherwise have happened.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 11, 2010)

elbows said:


> I see Apples stance as accelerating a trend that was already happening - it inconveniences some users along the way but it probably gets web developers & users to a better place more quickly than would otherwise have happened.



someone buy this man a drink


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## editor (Apr 11, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Editor's unwavering views on how a forum _should_ be done is a huge asset. But perhaps he should also see a little of Jobs in himself. He'll hate that observation, but I mean it as compliment, not a point-score.


I'll take it as intended, but it's hardly a valid comparison: users are often asked what features they want and their response guides what features the site gets. Changes and possible new features are then discussed by the mods and any technical considerations weighed up - and I certainly don't always get my way either! And the biggest difference is of course, that no one has to pay to access the forums.

FYI, the only reason we haven't got embedded YouTube videos on some forums is because it's not technically possible to selectively implement that feature at the moment. 

Elsewhere, the inevitable anti-Apple pro-Adobe Facebook group has been spawned:


> The recent war between Adobe and Apple reached a breaking point on April 8, 2010, when Steve Jobs not only recommitted to never allowing Flash to run on the iPhone or iPad, but even banning Adobe's new Flash-to-iPhone C compiler which was to go on sale Saturday, April 10.
> 
> There is no longer any debate as to who the "bad guy" is in this story -- Apple has proven themselves to be anti-competition, anti-developer, and anti-consumer.
> 
> I stand with Adobe.


http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&ref=search&gid=113492765344092


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## editor (Apr 11, 2010)

elbows said:


> I see Apples stance as accelerating a trend that was already happening - it inconveniences some users along the way but it probably gets web developers & users to a better place more quickly than would otherwise have happened.


Except Android is growing far faster than Apple _without_ the need for such hands-on restrictions.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 11, 2010)

magneze said:


> How is it different? I really don't think it is. It's less mature that's all.



to see it as less mature I think is getting off the track a bit, it's not about becoming OS X, it's about becoming something even better.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Elsewhere, the inevitable anti-Apple pro-Adobe Facebook group has been spawned:
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?v=info&ref=search&gid=113492765344092



I don't know if I should laugh or cry... did that Flash evangelist plonka set this up?

Adobe is a company that has fucked Apple and it's users over numerous times, never mind the creative industry with what it did (or indeed didn't do) with Macromedia.


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## editor (Apr 11, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Adobe is a company that has fucked Apple and it's users over numerous times, never mind the creative industry with what it did (or indeed didn't do) with Macromedia.


Seeing as Adobe has provided high end, world leading tools like Photoshop, Illustrator and Dreamweaver to the Mac platform, could you elaborate on your no-doubt fascinating and not even slightly biased theory about how they have "fucked" Apple?


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Seeing as Adobe has provided high end, world leading tools like Photoshop, Illustrator and Dreamweaver to the Mac platform, could you elaborate on your no-doubt fascinating and not even slightly biased theory about how they have "fucked" Apple?



dreamweaver? I don't think many web designer/devs on the Mac use that piece of shit (I'm generalising of course). And Freehand was always way better than Illustrator (until Adobe fucked Macromedia up), as for Photoshop well yes, is was a great app up until CS2, now it is a bloated beast (like all the rest of their stuff). And I did switch over a place I once worked at to InDesign (they were using Quark) back in 2001 or so, so i'm not perfect... - but, back to your question - Adobe pulled Premier from the Mac platform back in the late nineties, this fucked Apple up a fair bit as you could imagine (there was no other video software on the platform), the upside of this is that Apple dug deep and produced Final Cut, which as we know ened up going toe to toe with Avid.

Flash has always been the bane of Mac users, Adobe have never bothered their arse's sorting out the badly optimised shit fest that is Flash on the Mac, they have had _years_ to do something about that - and back in the day when the majority of Adobes products were being used on the Mac (and hence their revenue stream), Adobe used a PC on their website to advertise the (then) latest Photoshop (this may seem trivial to some, but it was an obvious display of where Adobe was concentrating its time and resources) - there's plenty more things that have arose over the years and it's clear to most Mac users that Adobe's focus (for a few years now) has been on the PC market.


----------



## editor (Apr 11, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> dreamweaver? I don't think many web designer/devs on the Mac use that piece of shit (I'm generalising of course).


You're talking out of your arse. Dreamweaver is the industry standard*. As is Photoshop. 

And Apple have benefited _massively_ by having these class leading tools on their platform. In fact, for some users, it's the reason they bought a Mac in the first place.



*I prefer Homesite, btw.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 11, 2010)

editor said:


> You're talking out of your arse. Dreamweaver is the industry standard*. As is Photoshop.
> 
> And Apple have benefited _massively_ by having these class leading tools on their platform. In fact, for some users, it's the reason they bought a Mac in the first place.
> 
> ...



I would say that it was Adobe that has benefited _hugely_ from Apple, it was the Apple platform that they used to develop both Illustrator & Photoshop at a time that the Mac was already widespread accross publishing/DTP areas (with Quark and Aldus - and people were using AutoCAD on Mac's before Illustrator came along), and eventually Adobe purchased Aldus Pagemaker, some 10 years after it was first released on the Mac (which then became InDesign).

Photoshop is pretty unique in the world of software I agree, but there have been no _real_ improvements to that application for years, certainly not to warrant the kind of pricing structure Adobe has been charging for it's software suite upgrades.

And I can only speak for the people I know who are web devs, none of which use Dreamweaver - again, this was a good app when it was under Macromedia, but today there are far better options (esp for coding).


----------



## elbows (Apr 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Except Android is growing far faster than Apple _without_ the need for such hands-on restrictions.



I was talking about a trend away from using flash on the web, not how rapidly the different mobile platforms are growing. Its certainly true that you dont have to impose such restrictions in order to get some progress, and that Apple have a variety of other motivations for doing so. But at the moment Apples stance provides a compelling reason for sites to dump Flash far sooner than they would have, they are responsible for pushing for several of the flash-killing technologies to end up in the html5 & css3 spec, and the iAd stuff is another example of them pushing adoption of html5. Its almost a shame that proper native iphone app support came out before developers got a chance to push webapps beyond the previous limits. And if palm had been more successful with webOS then I would also go on about them a lot more because they pretty much put html5 at the heart of their OS development platform.


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## elbows (Apr 11, 2010)

Adobe and Apple had a mutually beneficial relationship for many years, of very great benefit to both. Apple simply dont need Adobe as much as they used to.


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 11, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Photoshop is pretty unique in the world of software I agree, but there have been no _real_ improvements to that application for years



Sorry, but you are talking out of your arse. 
There have been huge improvements & specific inovations that professional users of PS, like myself, benefit from every day.


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## editor (Apr 11, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Photoshop is pretty unique in the world of software I agree, but there have been no _real_ improvements to that application for years, certainly not to warrant the kind of pricing structure Adobe has been charging for it's software suite upgrades.
> 
> And I can only speak for the people I know who are web devs, none of which use Dreamweaver - again, this was a good app when it was under Macromedia, but today there are far better options (esp for coding).


You really are talking shite. 

Dreamweaver is by far the most popular, high end web building software and Photoshop continues to be at the absolute forefront of graphics editing software, with each version seeing significant upgrades.


----------



## editor (Apr 11, 2010)

elbows said:


> And if palm had been more successful with webOS then I would also go on about them a lot more because they pretty much put html5 at the heart of their OS development platform.


Except Palm have _welcomed _Flash on to their phones, there's no restrictions on its use, they don't care what tools their apps are written with and there's already a Adobe Flash Player for webOS.


----------



## elbows (Apr 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Except Palm have _welcomed _Flash on to their phones, there's no restrictions on its use, they don't care what tools their apps are written with and there's already a Adobe Flash Player for webOS.



Maybe I am not putting my points about html5 across very well, I am talking about more than one thing here. In order for it to succeed and displace flash, it needs a variety of things to happen, such as lots of devices supporting it, and some cheerleaders for it, showing off what it can do,building stuff on top of it, offering tools. Quite a lot of corporations are doing this to varying extents, including Google, Palm and Apple, perhaps even Adobe too (will see what Dreamweaver CS5 offers soon enough). 

Apple also happen to be encouraging html5 adoption by making devices with buzz that developers & content providers want to support, but that doesnt support flash. This, in my opinion, is likely to accelerate the rise of html5 because it gives people a reason to switch to it quickly. It has a downside which has been discussed here a lot.

I was talking about both of these approaches in previous posts, because both are a threat to Flash dominance in the longterm, and therefore even devices that are supporting flash can still play a part in the erosion of flash's web presence.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 12, 2010)

editor said:


> You really are talking shite.
> 
> Dreamweaver is by far the most popular, high end web building software and Photoshop continues to be at the absolute forefront of graphics editing software, with each version seeing significant upgrades.



Dreamweaver is popular because it is part of the CS workflow, that doesn't mean it is good or that there are not better alternatives to people with their heads screwed on.

And I did say there is nothing really touching Photoshop at the moment - but if you think there has been _significant_ upgrades since CS2 for instance, I would disagree - there is nothing there that has improved/changed my work flow - if there's something snazzy they've introduced that you couldn't live without, then good for you.


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> Dreamweaver is popular because it is part of the CS workflow, that doesn't mean it is good or that there are not better alternatives to people with their heads screwed on.


Ah right. So there's stupid people using Dreamweaver now because they can't work out any 'better alternatives'?



Not everyone uses Dreamweaver as 'part of the CS workflow' and it is a perfectly capable standalone product. That's why it's so popular. Industry standard, in fact,

I really think you should consider the "stop digging" option here.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 12, 2010)

editor said:


> Ah right. So there's stupid people using Dreamweaver now because they can't work out any 'better alternatives'?



I didn't say that, as far as WYSIWYG web apps go Adobe has the monopoly with DW, and it's 'popularity' is helped along by it's inclusion in the CS suite. In pretty much all the graphics places I've worked it is the only app they know and/or have. (esp now that Adobe's GoLive has ceased).

But IME actual web developers are opting for leaner alternatives to dreamweaver.



editor said:


> Not everyone uses Dreamweaver as 'part of the CS workflow' and it is a perfectly capable standalone product. That's why it's so popular. Industry standard, in fact,



It's industry standard because Adobe pretty much has the monopoly on the graphics/creative content industry, that still doesn't mean that Adobe haven't messed DW up since they aquired it.


----------



## grit (Apr 12, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> But IME actual web developers are opting for leaner alternatives to dreamweaver.



Most of the front end guys that I know use it (however never in design view). It provides syntax highlighting and some good auto completion for a lot of web langauges/frameworks.

People who dont do all front end work prob use something similar to notepad++


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> I didn't say that, as far as WYSIWYG web apps go Adobe has the monopoly with DW, and it's 'popularity' is helped along by it's inclusion in the CS suite. In pretty much all the graphics places I've worked it is the only app they know and/or have. (esp now that Adobe's GoLive has ceased).
> 
> But IME actual web developers are opting for leaner alternatives to dreamweaver.
> 
> ...


Seeing as you're keen to keep digging and are hell bent on ignoring what everyone is telling you, could you explain the difference between a web developer using DW and an "actual web developer"?

And how has Adobe got a "monopoly" with DW? There's a vast choice of web editing tools available, but DW has become the most popular on account of it s versatility and feature set. 

I've also used DW since v1 and I fail to see how Adobe has "messed it up." In fact, it's become a far better product, so could you support your claim with some substance, please?

Your attempts to keep damning Adobe for providing an industry standard program really are quite strange to be honest.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 12, 2010)

editor said:


> Seeing as you're keen to keep digging and are hell bent on ignoring what everyone is telling you, could you explain the difference between a web developer using DW and an "actual web developer"?
> 
> And how has Adobe got a "monopoly" with DW? There's a vast choice of web editing tools available, but DW has become the most popular on account of it s versatility and feature set.
> 
> ...



we are getting way off topic with this stuff, but I'll chuck one more post in.

BTW, Adobe are showing off CS5 later, - check out that groovy content aware fill.

I'm not damning Adobe, I've used their stuff for _years_, I'm just into finding alternatives to their products, for a number of reasons. (which granted, in some cases is damn hard).

And I can only talk about my experience with working in environmets with DW, it _tends_ to be used in a CS workflow where people bring in page designs etc from PS or ID and carve them up in DW. 

And this also explains why DW is popular in the type of places I refer to, it comes with the suite and is integrated with it - why would anyone who's spunked a load of cash on PS, ID, Illustrator etc, go and purchase a totaly different web application? 

The few coders that I know don't use DW, they mostly use Coda (which of course like most software still has it's erks).

I am somewhat looking forward to seeing what CS5 brings to the table though, but my main software these days is Final Cut Pro & ProTools.


----------



## grit (Apr 12, 2010)

Adobe did give Apple the finger when they announced that Windows would be their primary platform, I imagine this fueled Job's fire.

http://innerdaemon.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/sorry-adobe-you-screwed-yourself/


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## editor (Apr 12, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> I'm not damning Adobe, I've used their stuff for _years...._


Yes, you are. 

You've made a series of ill-educated comments about their software. You've repeatedly claimed that Adobe "messed it up" Dreamweaver (I'm still waiting to hear how they managed that) and declared that they've made "no real improvements" to Photoshop "for years."

Do you still stand by those comments, or will you just admit that you were talking shite?


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2010)

grit said:


> Adobe did give Apple the finger when they announced that Windows would be their primary platform, I imagine this fueled Job's fire.
> 
> http://innerdaemon.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/sorry-adobe-you-screwed-yourself/


Not sure if it was a case of "giving Apple the finger" or just electing to develop for the larger market first. 

That argument looks even weaker when you consider that the new CS5 suite is coming out on_ both platforms at the same time _.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 12, 2010)

grit said:


> Adobe did give Apple the finger when they announced that Windows would be their primary platform, I imagine this fueled Job's fire.
> 
> http://innerdaemon.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/sorry-adobe-you-screwed-yourself/



thanks for posting that, I was refering to some of this stuff back up there^, but that post gives a good time-line & quotes.


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## grit (Apr 12, 2010)

editor said:


> Not sure if it was a case of "giving Apple the finger" or just electing to develop for the larger market first.
> 
> That argument looks even weaker when you consider that the new CS5 suite is coming out on_ both platforms at the same time _.



Well when a developer republishes benchmarks to show their applications running faster on Windows than on Mac. Its making a statement.

In summary, the iPhone situation is just another thread in a long running argument/debate/discussion whatever you want to call it. There are big political things between these two that is the source of the friction. I think we are losing perspective not looking at the big picture.


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## editor (Apr 12, 2010)

sunnysidedown said:


> thanks for posting that, I was refering to some of this stuff back up there^, but that post gives a good time-line & quotes.


Yes. From 2001, with the most recent quote being _four years old_. It's a pretty awful article too.

Perhaps you might articulate how Apple developers have _actually_ suffered from this decision because as far as I can see, CS5 is every bit as good and as as competitive as the Windows version, and it was the same story for CS4.

Now, about your claim that Adobe had "messed it up" Dreamweaver and made "no real improvements" to Photoshop "for years"....


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 12, 2010)

editor said:


> will you just admit that you were talking shite?



I'm always talking shite 



editor said:


> You've made a series of ill-educated comments about their software. You've repeatedly claimed that Adobe "messed it up" Dreamweaver (I'm still waiting to hear how they managed that) and declared that they've made "no real improvements" to Photoshop "for years."



I have used their software for years, I can make whatever comments I like.

This _series_ you refer to was actually only 2 comments:

1. I don't think the *improvements* to PS over the years are enough to warrant the cost of what Adobe has been charging for upgrades, speaking from my own use of the software.

2. DW (I'm refering to CS3 & CS4 here) is just horrible to use from my (yes, limited) use of it (I actually used DW a bit when it first came out and got quite into it for a while), but I feel it has become a convoluted mess of a programme. My discusions with a few friends of mine who make a living from web development tend to feel the same way - and have chosen other alternatives.

If you dig DW that's fine & dandy.


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 12, 2010)

editor said:


> Yes. From 2001, with the most recent quote being _four years old_. It's a pretty awful article too.



What? it gives _history_ to this whole issue, as for awful, it's about the facts & quotes not the little bits of writting inbetween.



editor said:


> Perhaps you might articulate how Apple developers have _actually_ suffered from this decision because as far as I can see, CS5 is every bit as good and as as competitive as the Windows version, and it was the same story for CS4.



CS5 should indeed be _every bit as good_ as the windows version, if that's the case then all I can say is that it's taken them long enough - maybe the lure of the iPhone gravy train made them pull their socks up a bit.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 12, 2010)

Man alive this is the most boring shite ever..!


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## grit (Apr 12, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Man alive this is the most boring shite ever..!



I'm behaving myself ok?


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## elbows (Apr 12, 2010)

Well none of the Dreamweaver CS5 info released today mentions HTML5 or CSS3, although thats not to say they cant be used with it.

When going on about HTML5 and Flash & Adobe before I forgot to mention that they do support HTML & AJAX stuff in Adobe Air in addition to Flash, so Adobe are not beyond supporting tech that competes with Flash when they feel they have to.


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## editor (Apr 12, 2010)

elbows said:


> Well none of the Dreamweaver CS5 info released today mentions HTML5 or CSS3, although thats not to say they cant be used with it..


Apparently, there is some support to be found.



> Over the past three days Adobe has quietly released several “preview” videos of future technology in Dreamweaver… Now just as with the sneak-peak Photoshop videos posted last week, there are no assurances on exactly which version of Dreamweaver or when – but considering that CS5 could be coming out fairly soon, we could be seeing some of these new technologies in CS5. But even if not, they are rather impressive…...
> 
> The second one delves into support for multiscreen authoring with HTML5 and CSS3, and so might be considered more in the “emerging” department
> 
> http://prodesigntools.com/three-dreamweaver-cs5-sneak-peek-videos.html


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## elbows (Apr 12, 2010)

The video they mentioned didnt show much really, jsut support for css screen stuff so that you can preview your site how it would look on devices with varying screen sizes, using different css files for each screen type.

Anyway I stumbled around the web a bit and found something far more dramatic, the ability to export Flash animations to HTML5 canvas for playback in modern browsers without needing flash:

http://www.9to5mac.com/Flash-html5-canvas-35409730

The devil is in the detail on this one, it certainly shouldnt be seen as a way to convert fancy flash sites, apps, games to html canvas & javascript, because it cant do that. But its a good start and will at least enable flash banner advert type animation stuff to be exported in a way that will work with iphones & ipads. A pretty clear sign that Adobe arent going to let the flash war hamper their ability to provide tools that are relevant for tomorrows world.


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## WWWeed (Apr 12, 2010)

it appears there are a few floating around in London (but not for sale as I'm sure you know). 

I had a quick play on one today! Only really messed around on the web seeing how broken the web is. The bbc have a beta ipad site I tryed.

But apart from that I hate to say it was quite good! The screen is much much more responsive and sharper than the iphone! This makes typing a pretty good experience! They are also a bit heaver than I expected, but I'm told the battery is massive and is basically the whole back cover so it should hopefully have a decent life. 

Google Maps Street view is also very smooth. In fact scrolling around in streetview seems much smoother than on any other device I've seen (mobile or desktop).

Also the youtube client is quite good too!

all in all pretty nice but I still dont think its worth the money. I wont be wasting my cash, especially if they are going for £400 for the basic wifi model!


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## sunnysidedown (Apr 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Man alive this is the most boring shite ever..!



sorry about that, I had too much time on my hands the last couple of days. 

this will be my _final_ mention of the Apple v Adobe malarky.

this article is well worth a read.



> The reason is that I think Adobe holds much more of the blame. Adobe is a large company with a significant, and complicated, relationship with Apple. They have frequent high level contacts and meetings. Adobe has known for quite some time about Apple's desire not to have Flash on the iPhone. There is no doubt in my mind that if they asked Apple to bless this they were rebuffed, and if they didn't ask the only reason they didn't was because they knew Apple would say no. In either event, they announced the product to their customers and sold them on an idea they were not in a position to deliver, hoping Apple would be unwilling to piss off developers by not fulfilling Adobe's promises. They tried to force Apple's hand by putting Apple in a position where in order stop the Flash they would have to do it publicly in front of Adobe's users. That was a bad call on Adobe's part.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 13, 2010)

No worries, anyway some good news: Opera mini has been approved and will be available for free in the next 24!

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/12/opera-mini-for-iphone-approved-will-be-available-for-free/?icid=engadget-iphone-url


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 13, 2010)

Cool it's available, trying it now.


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## editor (Apr 13, 2010)

It's fast! Very fast!

http://www.wirefresh.com/apple-iphone-gets-the-opera-mini-5-and-its-fast/


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## Sunray (Apr 13, 2010)

editor said:


> It's fast! Very fast!
> 
> http://www.wirefresh.com/apple-iphone-gets-the-opera-mini-5-and-its-fast/



Compared to the Safari experience its quite poor.  Too jumpy, this site is reformatted so you can't zoom it, zoom is only two levels.  

This means that you spend more time panning than is really necessary.


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## editor (Apr 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Compared to the Safari experience its quite poor.  Too jumpy, this site is reformatted so you can't zoom it, zoom is only two levels.
> 
> This means that you spend more time panning than is really necessary.


It's a bit clunky to navigate, but if you want to, say, read the news quickly it canes Safari's arse.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 13, 2010)

It is very fast but I don't mind waiting and having a better user experience. The choppyness is irritating...


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## editor (Apr 13, 2010)

I know which one I'll be using when I want to check the footie scores


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## Lazy Llama (Apr 13, 2010)

iFooty?


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## Sunray (Apr 13, 2010)

Just goes to show, speed isn't everything.  

Do remember how it works, its not a HTML renderer like safari, its just a simpler display tool.  The HTML is compiled on Opera's servers, compressed till the pips squeak and then sent as OBML.  That's why there is an initial pause and then it all appears really quickly.

This technique has some limitations.


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## Kanda (Apr 13, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> iFooty?



Or Sky Sports Score Center.


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## editor (Apr 13, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Or Sky Sports Score Center.


I already use that but prefer the BBC's text commentary. I also like to use as few Sky products as is humanly possible.


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## Crispy (Apr 13, 2010)

How do dynamic sites like gmail.com perform? all that javascript - do the popups pop up? menus etc. all work properly?


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## Lazy Llama (Apr 13, 2010)

Definitely try iFooty then if you haven't already. Uses the BBC text but is easier to navigate, IMO.


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## editor (Apr 13, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> Definitely try iFooty then if you haven't already. Uses the BBC text but is easier to navigate, IMO.


Just downloaded. I like it!  

*shows Sky Sports the red card.


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## Pie 1 (Apr 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It is very fast but I don't mind waiting and having a better user experience. The choppyness is irritating...



This.
There's no denying the speed, but I've just had a good play around with it & that 2 level only zoom and the jumpiness of the scrolling is doing my head in a bit already.


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## maximilian ping (Apr 13, 2010)

editor said:


> Just downloaded. I like it!
> 
> *shows Sky Sports the red card.



i had this but then it disappointed. didnt have my team's non Premier League games and there were a few other frustrating things i've forgotten - so i ditched it. Also ditched the Sky Footie one because the live text commentary thing was awful and kept on getting muddled. so now i just have normal BBC pages when a game's on.


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## editor (Apr 13, 2010)

maximilian ping said:


> i had this but then it disappointed. didnt have my team's non Premier League games and there were a few other frustrating things i've forgotten - so i ditched it. Also ditched the Sky Footie one because the live text commentary thing was awful and kept on getting muddled. so now i just have normal BBC pages when a game's on.


Sky Football occasionally completely screws up - at one point if was showing me stats for a completely different game!

It's off my phone now, so I'll see if this iFooty thing is any better.


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## Gromit (Apr 13, 2010)

iFooty piggybacks BBC data but isn't allowed to display fixture data.

I have both on mine. Why delete when you can switch between if one or the other is playing up? They don't exactly take up a lot of memory space.


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## editor (Apr 13, 2010)

Gromit said:


> iFooty piggybacks BBC data but isn't allowed to display fixture data.
> 
> I have both on mine. Why delete when you can switch between if one or the other is playing up? They don't exactly take up a lot of memory space.


BBC text updates on opera and iFooty should cover it, I reckon.


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## Gromit (Apr 13, 2010)

iFooty piggiebacks the BBC match updates So you can view em via the app rather than browser if you want. .


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## FridgeMagnet (Apr 13, 2010)

I'm distinctly underwhelmed with Opera. It isn't faster at all for me on 3G - the rendering is of course but it was taking me ten or twenty seconds a page to even start, on Urban just now (on Safari at the moment it's a few seconds). Sometimes longer. Plus, there's no autocorrect when making entries in text fields - which is a deal breaker - and when I submitted a post just now with it, it didn't actually post it.


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## teuchter (Apr 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Compared to the Safari experience its quite poor.  Too jumpy, this site is reformatted so you can't zoom it, zoom is only two levels.
> 
> This means that you spend more time panning than is really necessary.



Try setting it to "mobile view" (in the settings) and see how you find that.

From the beginning (when smaller non-touch screens were the norm) Opera mini's strength has been in getting as much information onto the screen as quickly as possible and in an easily navigable way. In "mobile view" this means formatting all the content into a single column - which means what you see doesn't look like what you'd see on a desktop...but then again you aren't on a desktop, and panning and zooming around pages is a silly way to do things on a small screen.

Using "mobile view" you never have to pan or zoom - just scroll up or down (very handy if done with a couple of shortcut keys when using a phone one-handed).

The downside is that occasionally it will format something in a weird way but usually it does surprisingly well.

Of course to people used to using Safari on an iphone this probably all seems a strange way of doing things - but to those used to Opera Mini, trying to view the full desktop version of a website on a small screen seems a strange way of doing things.

Opera Mini speed can be a bit hit and miss though... sometimes super fast and some days not - I guess it probably depends on how much load there is on the servers and stuff like that.


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## Kanda (Apr 13, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Try setting it to "mobile view" (in the settings) and see how you find that.



Attrocious. Like reading a webpage on a 6 year old Sony Ericsson.


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## grit (Apr 13, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Attrocious. Like reading a webpage on a 6 year old Sony Ericsson.



Exactly Opera Mini was originally created to solve a problem, that doesn't exist on smartphones.


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## Gromit (Apr 13, 2010)

I have no intention of using any other browser than Safari on my iPhone. It does the job very very well so why change.

Many websites code to go to mobile versions for smartphones. 
This pisses me off. Especially Facebook which because of this no longer allows me to access certain pages on my phone. Only via PC. Because if I try on the phone it switches every time to the mobile version of certain pages which do not have what I want on em grrrr. Even though i'd switch to the full site, which then shows me the main page once again not the full page of the page i was on grr.


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## teuchter (Apr 13, 2010)

grit said:


> Exactly Opera Mini was originally created to solve a problem, that doesn't exist on smartphones.



Not entirely true.

How easy is it to navigate around a non-mobile-optimised website on something like Safari using only one hand?




(The existence of those applications like the one that reads vBulletin boards, that everyone got so excited about recently, demonstrates that using Safari has its limitations)


----------



## Gromit (Apr 13, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Not entirely true.
> 
> How easy is it to navigate around a non-mobile-optimised website on something like Safari using only one hand?


 
As a habitual masturbater I'd have to say very easy thankfully.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 13, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Not entirely true.
> 
> How easy is it to navigate around a non-mobile-optimised website on something like Safari using only one hand?



Erm.. really fucking easy. I just done it with the BBC site.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 13, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Not entirely true.
> 
> How easy is it to navigate around a non-mobile-optimised website on something like Safari using only one hand?
> 
> (The existence of those applications like the one that reads vBulletin boards, that everyone got so excited about recently, demonstrates that using Safari has its limitations)


Easy. double tap to zoom in and out, swipe to scroll

But yes, you're right it's still not optimal. Opera Mini makes forums completely unintelligable, though.


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## teuchter (Apr 13, 2010)

> Opera Mini makes forums completely unintelligable, though.









I find it works pretty well if you use the mobile skin on U75.


----------



## grit (Apr 13, 2010)

teuchter said:


> How easy is it to navigate around a non-mobile-optimised website on something like Safari using only one hand?



A shit load easier than using Opera


----------



## teuchter (Apr 13, 2010)

grit said:


> A shit load easier than using Opera



In what way?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 13, 2010)

Been using it all day and have decided I don't like it. It's just too choppy and hyper active. Not smooth at all...


----------



## Sunray (Apr 14, 2010)

Crispy said:


> How do dynamic sites like gmail.com perform? all that javascript - do the popups pop up? menus etc. all work properly?



One of the limitations is to the Javascript.  

Check out the wikipedia entry on how it works.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 14, 2010)

teuchter said:


> In what way?



Its very like using a desktop browser.  I can post on here without much extra effort than I would using my desktop.  The app makes things even easier but its not like Safari was pissing me off.  I've forgotten about that app, so i'd gone back to Safari.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 14, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Its very like using a desktop browser.  I can post on here without much extra effort than I would using my desktop.  The app makes things even easier but its not like Safari was pissing me off.  I've forgotten about that app, so i'd gone back to Safari.



I've recently moved to a phone with a browser very much like a desktop browser; arguably more so than safari/iphone.

It's great but I still miss Opera Mini in some situations. Normally when I'm on the move and trying to look at something one-handed. Particularly large pages with a lot of images. All the panning around and waiting for stuff to load is a pain if you just want to find stuff out quickly.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 14, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I've recently moved to a phone with a browser very much like a desktop browser; arguably more so than safari/iphone.
> 
> It's great but I still miss Opera Mini in some situations. Normally when I'm on the move and trying to look at something one-handed. Particularly large pages with a lot of images. All the panning around and waiting for stuff to load is a pain if you just want to find stuff out quickly.



Dunno what phone you have but, no, no experience of that.  Things run slow in shit coverage, things run fast in good coverage, bugger all to do with the phone really...


----------



## editor (Apr 14, 2010)

Bish bosh! Law suit ahoy!


> Adobe is allegedly set to sue Apple over changes in its iPhone software development kit, as the row over the lack of Flash support on the iPhone, iPod touch and iPad escalates.
> 
> Technology website IT World quotes sources close to Adobe as saying that they will be filing a lawsuit against Apple "within a few weeks". The software company is incensed at recent changes to the iPhone software development kit, which have banned the use of cross-compilers to build applications for the platform.
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Apr 14, 2010)

Meanwhile I keep hearing that full mobile flash plugins for the likes of WebOS keep getting delayed. Ive been unable to get to the bottom of this matter yet - is there a mobile version of flash for any platform that has the same features as the desktop version and runs at an acceptable speed?


----------



## Sunray (Apr 14, 2010)

elbows said:


> Meanwhile I keep hearing that full mobile flash plugins for the likes of WebOS keep getting delayed. Ive been unable to get to the bottom of this matter yet - is there a mobile version of flash for any platform that has the same features as the desktop version and runs at an acceptable speed?



There was one for a phone out there, I can't remember but its was akin to pouring treacle in use plus it didn't address the touch input issue.

Was it the G1?  Not sure.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 14, 2010)

Flash seems to work OK on my HTC Desire, no idea what sort of version/how "complete" it is though.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 14, 2010)

elbows said:


> Meanwhile I keep hearing that full mobile flash plugins for the likes of WebOS keep getting delayed. Ive been unable to get to the bottom of this matter yet - is there a mobile version of flash for any platform that has the same features as the desktop version and runs at an acceptable speed?



Flash 9.4 runs fine on Maemo 5 / Nokia N900 native browser.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 15, 2010)

The silver vollume knobs thingie has fallen off my phone somewhere. 

Gives me an excuse to look at a new phone before the next iPhone comes out. Tired of waiting and the Desire looks tasty.


----------



## gabi (Apr 15, 2010)

What exactly is the beef between apple and adobe about? I heard it might be as petty as a personal beef between Jobs and his opposite number?


----------



## grit (Apr 15, 2010)

gabi said:


> What exactly is the beef between apple and adobe about? I heard it might be as petty as a personal beef between Jobs and his opposite number?



Thats a hugely complex answer, its essentially two rival, powerful companies that have been competition for over (?) 20 years. There may be slight personal issues, however the whole thing is driven by money.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 15, 2010)

gabi said:


> What exactly is the beef between apple and adobe about? I heard it might be as petty as a personal beef between Jobs and his opposite number?



I think this needs to be discussed in depth. I feel it has not been discussed enough on here yet.


----------



## magneze (Apr 15, 2010)

Jobs called Flash "butters", it all went down from there.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 15, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I think this needs to be discussed in depth. I feel it has not been discussed enough on here yet.



That's nothing compared to the utter neglect we've shown to scrutinising the app approval process.


----------



## editor (Apr 16, 2010)

I'm sure most of you will just shrug your shoulders and say "so what?" at the news that Apple have banned a Pulitzer Prize winning cartoonist from the app store for "ridiculing public figures."

Such moves worry me though, so I'm sorry to say I'll keep commenting, whether you like it or not because it's very relevant to the phone in your (and my) hand.





> Mark Fiore made a little online history this week by being the first web-only journalist to win a Pulitzer Prize. His editorial cartoons, though, were rejected from the App Store for violating Apple's anti-satire provisions. That's a dangerous precedent.
> 
> ...Apple's walled garden approach to App Store content means they can exclude pretty much whomever they want. But can and should are obviously entirely different things. And if they're sincere about the iPad being the future of media, they're going to need to accept that satirical—even controversial—voices are an essential part of the information landscape. Otherwise, the future might a pretty bleak place.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5517890/apple-blocks-pulitzer-prize+winning-cartoonist-from-app-store


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 16, 2010)

What does it change though? We all know this and yet still own iPhones you included, all you're doing is telling us nothing new. Over and over and over again.


----------



## editor (Apr 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What does it change though? We all know this and yet still own iPhones you included, all you're doing is telling us nothing new. Over and over and over again.


*shrugs. 

It's seen as interesting enough news to be be reported elsewhere. Maybe it might influence some people's future buying decisions too.


----------



## g force (Apr 16, 2010)

Maybe...Apple's control freakery does make me think i'd move away from the iPhone in a year's time but that is also a decision based on how good the competing handsets are now


----------



## editor (Apr 16, 2010)

g force said:


> Maybe...Apple's control freakery does make me think i'd move away from the iPhone in a year's time but that is also a decision based on how good the competing handsets are now


I kinda hoped they'd become _less_ restrictive as time wore on but they seem to be continuing in the opposite direction. 

Wired has run a big feature on the ban, and raises some interesting points:





> Fiore’s rejection may be especially disconcerting to news and media organizations, many of which are betting heavily on iPad apps as a way to get users to pay to read magazines and newspapers, and to get advertisers to pay print-ad prices for online content. (Online ads cost a small percentage of what ads in glossy magazines cost, in no small part because the net has almost infinite advertising space.)
> 
> Apple has built a little slab of Disneyland with its iPad, which is meant to be an experience unsullied by provocative or crude material. It’s beautiful and enticing — the company has already sold more than a half million of them in the first two weeks it’s been available — but it’s not the real world.
> 
> ...


----------



## pboi (Apr 16, 2010)

This just in from our news desk.

Today Bill Gates made the unprecedented announcement that Apple’s iTunes is banned from the Windows OS.

Our roving reporter was lucky enough to catch up with Bill and ask him why Microsoft had made this astonishing announcement. Bill had the following to say on this subject…

“In the first place we were happy that they (Apple) deployed iTunes to Windows; we got a lot of new customers just because of that one app, but, then we heard from an inside source that they (Apple) used the EXACT SAME code-base for iTunes Mac as for Windows.

On closer inspection we noticed that iTunes didn’t even use the real windows API! They make their own scroll system and their own chrome COMPLETELY bypassing our fantastic Windows OS. So, we’ve decided enough is enough. We’ll allow iTunes back into Windows when they (Apple) make the following changes.

    * Apple MUST write a specialised version of  iTunes on Windows and use Windows compilers and Windows languages ONLY
    * Apple MUST use native windows controllers such as our in built Windowing system and scroll objects.
    * Apple MUST lose this RIDICULOUS attitude of writing code once and deploying to multiple operating systems. Just don’t go there.

If they (Apple) can follow those few simple rules, then we (Microsoft) will be happy to allow them back on Windows.”

Update:
Just to be clear this is a Thought Experiment article parodying the double standards that came from Apple’s 3.3.1 T&C clause. Also, the author (Me) is a huge fan of Apple and ironically purchased a Mac Book Pro the very day this article was written!

Update 2:
You should follow me on Twitter! @justinvincent


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What does it change though? We all know this and yet still own iPhones you included, all you're doing is telling us nothing new. Over and over and over again.



Actually I'm with editor on this particular one - It's bollocks KE - I didn't know that Apple would start effectively censoring editorial content when I bought an iphone & it makes me feel quite uncomfortable tbh. 
How would you feel if say the Guardian app was banned because it inculded Steve Bell cartoons?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 16, 2010)

Pie 1 said:
			
		

> Actually I'm with editor on this particular one - It's bollocks KE - I didn't know that Apple would start effectively censoring editorial content when I bought an iphone & it makes me feel quite uncomfortable tbh.
> How would you feel if say the Guardian app was banned because it inculded Steve Bell cartoons?



I agree with the Ed for the most part but that wasn't my point. We all know this so repeating the same point over and over again doesn't add anything imv to the thread...


----------



## editor (Apr 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I agree with the Ed for the most part but that wasn't my point. We all know this so repeating the same point over and over again doesn't add anything imv to the thread...


But I'm not repeating anything. This is the first time a Pulitzer Prize winning satirist has had their work rejected by Apple, and it's a move that sites like Wired clearly think is worth having further discussion on.


----------



## grit (Apr 16, 2010)

editor said:


> But I'm not repeating anything. This is the first time a Pulitzer Prize winning satirist has had their work rejected by Apple, and it's a move that sites like Wired clearly think is worth having further discussion on.



Oh ffs these are essentially the same articles just featuring a different app.

We know, that you know etc.


----------



## editor (Apr 16, 2010)

grit said:


> Oh ffs these are essentially the same articles just featuring a different app.
> 
> We know, that you know etc.


So you think it shouldn't be mentioned here, even though other larger tech sites are reporting it as a newsworthy development?

I'm posting iPhone-related news on an iPhone-related thread, so what's _your point?_


----------



## grit (Apr 16, 2010)

editor said:


> So you think it shouldn't be mentioned here, even though other larger tech sites are reporting it as a newsworthy development?



I'm more of the view that forums should be more discussion orientated rather than just posting links to stories that for the purposes of the discussion dont add anything new.


----------



## belboid (Apr 16, 2010)

I had no idea that apple banned satire, so it's new to me at least.  Not all of us bother to devour every item of apple related news y'know


----------



## grit (Apr 16, 2010)

belboid said:


> I had no idea that apple banned satire, so it's new to me at least.  Not all of us bother to devour every item of apple related news y'know



They ban so many things at this stage that , for me personally (im pretty sure a bunch of other people) that the story is not really newsworthy, more a by the way sort of thing.


----------



## belboid (Apr 16, 2010)

aah, so nothing should be posted without checking you think its newsworthy enough?  Do me a fucking favour.  If you find it dull, how about you just ignore it?  Cant be that hard, can it?


----------



## editor (Apr 16, 2010)

grit said:


> They ban so many things at this stage that , for me personally (im pretty sure a bunch of other people) that the story is not really newsworthy, more a by the way sort of thing.


So ignore it, then. Some people find it interesting. For example: 


belboid said:


> I had no idea that apple banned satire, so it's new to me at least.  Not all of us bother to devour every item of apple related news y'know


----------



## editor (Apr 16, 2010)

grit said:


> I'm more of the view that forums should be more discussion orientated rather than just posting links to stories that for the purposes of the discussion dont add anything new.


It's certainly attracted a lot of user comments on tech news sites and there's been a fair bit of discussion on related boards, so just because _you_ decide that a story is not newsworthy,  that doesn't mean _it is._

If you don't want to discuss it or if you find the topic too dull for your tastes, then jog on. News stories often form the basis of interesting debates here, btw.


----------



## grit (Apr 16, 2010)

belboid said:


> aah, so nothing should be posted without checking you think its newsworthy enough?  Do me a fucking favour.  If you find it dull, how about you just ignore it?  Cant be that hard, can it?



Bit of an over reaction? I never suggested I should be consulted before links are posted 

Your obviously more upset than I am


----------



## grit (Apr 16, 2010)

editor said:


> If you don't want to discuss it or if you find the topic too dull for your tastes, then jog on. News stories often form the basis of interesting debates here, btw.



Yeah just never ones about apple app store rejections


----------



## wordie (Apr 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What does it change though? We all know this and yet still own iPhones you included, all you're doing is telling us nothing new. Over and over and over again.



Personally, and as an Apple fan who has clashed with the Ed on more than one occasion, what the Ed says here, bears repeating! There needs to be someone standing up and illuminating the slow erosion of society's freedom of speech by a mere technology company... 

Don't criticise him; applaud him!


----------



## Structaural (Apr 16, 2010)

I agree, piss off to Appleinsider if you want constant clap-happy apple stories and everyone in basic agreement of how wonderful apple is.
Personally I'm fucked off that apple seem to be upping their control into areas they shouldn't. From this latest attack on developers (those who love 3D games might want to watch that space as technically a lot of games librariers are in now in breach of the SDK), to banning a cartoonist. Bloody ridiculous.


----------



## grit (Apr 16, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I agree, piss off to Appleinsider if you want constant clap-happy apple stories and everyone in basic agreement of how wonderful apple is.
> Personally I'm fucked off that apple seem to be upping their control into areas they shouldn't. From this latest attack on developers (those who love 3D games might want to watch that space as technically a lot of games librariers are in now in breach of the SDK), to banning a cartoonist. Bloody ridiculous.



Then dont use their fucking products.


----------



## belboid (Apr 16, 2010)

no right to complain about anything apple do?  what a silly notion


----------



## grit (Apr 16, 2010)

belboid said:


> no right to complain about anything apple do?  what a silly notion



You lose credibility complaining if you continue to supprort them.


----------



## belboid (Apr 16, 2010)

d'oh!  Of course, I should simply ignore my contract or stay schtum.  Such marvellous alternatives, excuse me if I dont follow your advice.


----------



## grit (Apr 16, 2010)

belboid said:


> d'oh!  Of course, I should simply ignore my contract or stay schtum.  Such marvellous alternatives, excuse me if I dont follow your advice.



Please carry on, I'm sure it will have precisely the same effect as it has had previously, which is obviously a far superior alternative.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 16, 2010)

grit said:


> Then dont use their fucking products.



whoop dere it is: *Fanboi response no.1™*, to any criticism.

That's obviously what I'd fucking do, mate, as that's the only power consumers have.

But as a user of their products (desktops mainly) since '84 I think I'm entitled to a moan about a company I've spent a fair bit of money on, on a thread about iPhones, about the iPhone. It changes fuck-all but it gets it off my chest. 

I guess some people are completely happy with a platform that is slowly turning into some sort of PTA run, closed shop to those who don't wish to kow-tow to unreasonable restrictions (or learn how to make a game engine from scratch in Xcode). 

As to losing credibility when complaining about something you've paid for, really, that's what you think? I can't complain about a film I just saw? I can't unsee it. 
I can't complain about a car I just bought? even though it might do everything I want pretty well? We should just accept all things as is, or not use them? 
I'd actually have more credibility complaining about a product I didn't use and had no knowledge of?


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 16, 2010)

wordie said:


> Personally, and as an Apple fan who has clashed with the Ed on more than one occasion, what the Ed says here, bears repeating! There needs to be someone standing up and illuminating the slow erosion of society's freedom of speech by a mere technology company...
> 
> Don't criticise him; applaud him!



"Eroding society's freedom of speech"?  Hardly.  The iPhone is apple's product and they have every right to decide what software runs on it or not.  If you want true freedom of speech there are plenty of other avenues to get it.


----------



## grit (Apr 16, 2010)

Structaural said:


> whoop dere it is: *Fanboi response no.1™*, to any criticism.



Yeah your logic fails there as I run an _*Android*_ device for some of the reasons being moaned about in this thread. I put my money where my mouth is.



Structaural said:


> As to losing credibility when complaining about something you've paid for, really, that's what you think? I can't complain about a film I just saw? I can't unsee it.
> I can't complain about a car I just bought? even though it might do everything I want pretty well? We should just accept all things as is, or not use them?
> I'd actually have more credibility complaining about a product I didn't use and had no knowledge of?



No, you lose credibility when you _*continue*_ to support their product. If your a long time apple customer, you knew what you were buying into.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 16, 2010)

vaguely attempting to steer the thread away from turning into Gizmodo's comment section ("omg steve jobs has banned satire on the iphone so people don't insult him") there are a few points:

1. this indicates that all the old App Store inconsistent approval fuckups are still taking place, as there are loads of political cartoon apps already there, and all this seems to be is a syndicator for one particular cartoonist;

2. it's an indication of a high level of risk aversion on Apple's part. Though this isn't anything new really. They clearly pre-approve App Store content and so don't have immunity on a "common carrier" basis, and they are apparently taking absolutely no chances on either the app store's image or potential legal threats in assorted jurisdictions. Given that they're displaying this, and the App Store business model isn't going to change:

3. the whole model that many people have been using of distributing content in specialised apps, rather than having apps access and display content, just isn't looking like a good idea.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 16, 2010)

as a followup, according to the NYT Steve Jobs has said it was a mistake and going to be corrected - http://mediadecoder.blogs.nytimes.c...-a-mistake-in-rejecting-pulitzer-winners-app/ - though if true that doesn't really change the above. App Store fuckups are taking place, and risk aversion policies must be OTT if they're resulting in approvers interpreting them to denying approval to this sort of app.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 17, 2010)

grit said:


> Yeah your logic fails there as I run an _*Android*_ device for some of the reasons being moaned about in this thread. I put my money where my mouth is.



ah just trolling then. I guess you have zero to complain about otherwise you'd have to abandon that platform too.

Well  personally I can't run out and buy the latest thing because I have a few complaints about my current device. And that probably goes for most people.



> No, you lose credibility when you _*continue*_ to support their product. If your a long time apple customer, you knew what you were buying into.



What a load of bollocks. So all the tech you buy you are 100% happy with it?
Like most stuff we choose, it does 80-90% well and we complain about the other 10%. Making a noise has often changed vendors attitudes to their customers, taking your dollar to the competition isn't the only option (or often affordable). I have problems with my mac pro, doesn't mean I going to get a windows box as the positives outweigh the negatives. 
For instance when the 8800GT upgrade for macpros came out they wouldn't support the old 2007 mac pro. We made a load of noise and Apple ended up writing the needed drivers themselves because of one thread on MacRumours. So complaining can often work. And not everyone can afford to go buy a competitors product because they have problems with their current one. 
As pointed out Apple have already retracted their banning of that cartoonist because of negative press.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 17, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> "Eroding society's freedom of speech"?  Hardly.  The iPhone is apple's product and they have every right to decide what software runs on it or not.  If you want true freedom of speech there are plenty of other avenues to get it.



So when a device like the ipad which has been hyped as the future of publishing, limits what can be published on, that's no cause for concern? 


Because other companies never follow what apple do?


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 17, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> So when a device like the ipad which has been hyped as the future of publishing, limits what can be published on, that's no cause for concern?
> 
> 
> Because other companies never follow what apple do?



If you choose to use someone someone else's medium to spread your message you have to follow their rules.   Even this forum has rules about what you can and cannot say.

I fail to see how ONE company restricting content on its devices is "eroding soceity's freedom of speech".  Maybe if they were the only option, but they're not.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 17, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> If you choose to use someone someone else's medium to spread your message you have to follow their rules.   Even this forum has rules about what you can and cannot say.
> 
> I fail to see how ONE company restricting content on its devices is "eroding soceity's freedom of speech".  Maybe if they were the only option, but they're not.




Its more I see it as a worrying trend. How would you feel if all the major players did it?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 17, 2010)

Anywaaaaay, let's get back to what makes this thread fun, speculation!

Is this the new iPhone?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/7598828/Leaked-photos-show-iPhone-4G.html


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 17, 2010)

Have there ever in the history of anything been any leaked photos of Apple products that were real? I can't think of any offhand.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 17, 2010)

Yep the new nano shots that came out before launch were pretty on the money...

That image is fake however according to MacRumours. Would look nice like that though..!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 18, 2010)

No, I mean "of an actual pre release product" rather than "the Photoshop looked lots like what came out in the end" - eventually people get that right.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 18, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:
			
		

> No, I mean "of an actual pre release product" rather than "the Photoshop looked lots like what came out in the end" - eventually people get that right.



I'm sure there was actual photos of the nano before it was confirmed...


----------



## elbows (Apr 18, 2010)

Those photos dont exactly show the kind of curvy hardware we have come to expect from Apple.


----------



## editor (Apr 18, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> as a followup, according to the NYT Steve Jobs has said it was a mistake and going to be corrected -


More like a _PR_ mistake that's now being hastily airbrushed.

Good user comment in that article:



> Until [Apple] can and does commit to a public, transparent, clear, and logical policy describing a reasoned approach to censorship of apps based upon content, SJ's statement is meaningless.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 18, 2010)

elbows said:
			
		

> Those photos dont exactly show the kind of curvy hardware we have come to expect from Apple.



It's been deemed a fake but the design shift post new iMacs and iPad  wouldn't surprise me...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 18, 2010)

editor said:


> More like a _PR_ mistake that's now being hastily airbrushed.
> 
> Good user comment in that article:



What would it look like if it was some other sort of mistake?

The App Store has plenty of political cartoon apps already, so "Apple bans satire" is clearly untrue. It also has what seems to be a disorganised and inconsistent app approval process, as has been indicated quite a few times already.


----------



## editor (Apr 18, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> What would it look like if it was some other sort of mistake?


Neither of us will know what really happened but that's my take on it. I'm pretty sure that if he hadn't been famous and attracted so much press, his app would still be residing in the 'banned and we don't give a fuck' department - just like loads of other apps by lesser authors booted out for vague reasons.

Here's the original reason Apple banned the app:


> According to a Dec. 21 e-mail reprinted by Neiman, Apple rejected his app because it “contains content that ridicules public figures and is in violation of Section 3.3.14 from the iPhone Developer Program License Agreement which states: Applications may be rejected if they contain content or materials of any kind (text, graphics, images, photographs, sounds, etc.) that in Apple’s reasonable judgment may be found objectionable, for example, materials that may be considered obscene, pornographic, or defamatory.”


The app still ridicules public figures as far as I can see, so what else has changed?


----------



## elbows (Apr 18, 2010)

Iant ther some clause about apps that 'ridicule public figures?'


----------



## Crispy (Apr 19, 2010)

I held off posting about this earlier, as it all looked too circumstantial or fake, but it really does look like an apple engineer forgot to pick up their 4G iphone 

http://gizmodo.com/5520164/this-is-apples-next-iphone - loads of pics and analysis (hi res screen, front camera, flash (the camera kind!), plastic back)


----------



## grit (Apr 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I held off posting about this earlier, as it all looked too circumstantial or fake, but it really does look like an apple engineer forgot to pick up their 4G iphone
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5520164/this-is-apples-next-iphone - loads of pics and analysis (hi res screen, front camera, plastic back)



Was just reading that, on first glance my thought was "bollocks" but it actually looks legit.


----------



## gabi (Apr 19, 2010)

Someone's head will be rolling


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 19, 2010)

Unless it's an exceptionally detailed hoax, it looks real - I'm a bit sceptical about this "left it in a bar" thing though. Apple engineers are allowed to take high security products out of the lab, and not only that, to bars, now?


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

It looks like a flattened MacBook! 

 If it is a hoax, someone's put in an awful lot of work, but it's an nice looking phone alright, albeit a little less less distinctive with its chunky body.


----------



## grit (Apr 19, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Unless it's an exceptionally detailed hoax, it looks real - I'm a bit sceptical about this "left it in a bar" thing though. Apple engineers are allowed to take high security products out of the lab, and not only that, to bars, now?



Its a corporate handset that can be killed remotely so I dont find it too far fetched that employees are using them as their primary handset. I've met several RIM execs who all were carrying at that time unreleased handsets.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 19, 2010)

CVG reckon it's real, whatever that means...


----------



## g force (Apr 19, 2010)

On first glance it looks distinctly average compared to the current version. Quite how the got hold of it is really more intriguing than that brick-shaped phone


----------



## Structaural (Apr 19, 2010)

It also appears in this old shot of the iPad prototype:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/18/iphone-4g-proof/

Apple also filed a patent in 2006 for a ceramic material that was wifi transparent.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 19, 2010)

I like the new look myself. All-over curves are so 00's (or 90's even!)


----------



## Structaural (Apr 19, 2010)

I do too, nice bit of design.


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I like the new look myself. All-over curves are so 00's (or 90's even!)


It looks more like some of the recent Android handsets, and those round buttons on the side keep reminding me of my old Sony Ericsson T610!


----------



## Crispy (Apr 19, 2010)

Ah that was a marvellous bit of design  I only just dumped mine


----------



## Structaural (Apr 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Ah that was a marvellous bit of design  I only just dumped mine



my gf still uses my old one, battery lasts for aaages.


----------



## grit (Apr 19, 2010)

I'm starting to think Apple leaked this themselves. Today is the same day that pre orders start for the droid incredible from htc.


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

grit said:


> I'm starting to think Apple leaked this themselves. Today is the same day that pre orders start for the droid incredible from htc.


There's always that likelihood because this whole 'left in a bar' story really, really does sound unlikely.


----------



## spacemonkey (Apr 19, 2010)

editor said:


> There's always that likelihood because this whole 'left in a bar' story really, really does sound unlikely.



There's_ no way_ Apple leaked this on purpose. 

The idea of leaking stuff is to give the consumers little drips of information, which generates huge amounts of discussion on the web. Look at how much speculation there was on the iPad on urban alone! They kept everyone guessing right up to the last min.

You don't leak the entire freaking phone for some geek to hack to pieces in his bedroom!  

Marketing execs lie awake at night fearing these kind of fuck-ups.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 19, 2010)

absolutely. this lets all their competitors get a 2 month lead on the specs of the new model. they keep that stuff secret for a reason.


----------



## spacemonkey (Apr 19, 2010)

Just saw this on reddit.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 19, 2010)

There is no such thing as bad publicity.

Heads will roll, but they will carry on as if it never happened.

I have to say I do really like that look.  They can't boot it, so we still don't know what extra it can do apart from 3g video calls.  I'd rather they hadn't of bothered with that.  Has anyone seen a 3G video call, what a load of pants they are.


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> absolutely. this lets all their competitors get a 2 month lead on the specs of the new model. they keep that stuff secret for a reason.


But it's never been just about the specs with the iPhone, which traditionally always lags behind the current high end features found elsewhere. It's the software and OS that matters, and that's been disabled.


----------



## grit (Apr 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> absolutely. this lets all their competitors get a 2 month lead on the specs of the new model. they keep that stuff secret for a reason.



From what I understand they dont have the phone actually running, its just a brick. We cant even get a screen resolution, its a very carefully managed leak imho.


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I have to say I do really like that look.  They can't boot it, so we still don't know what extra it can do apart from 3g video calls.  I'd rather they hadn't of bothered with that.  Has anyone seen a 3G video call, what a load of pants they are.


If Apple succeeds in popularising video calls (and if anyone can do it, it'll be them), the networks will just turn into one almighty facepalm as bandwidth vanishes quicker than a bikini app from the AppStore.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 19, 2010)

editor said:


> If Apple succeeds in popularising video calls (and if anyone can do it, it'll be them), the networks will just turn into one almighty facepalm as bandwidth vanishes quicker than a bikini app from the AppStore.




What can you do to make the user experience better? I've had on at least six phones now and even when I got free/inc video calls, didn't bother with them much. 

Whilst Apple have made using things like the net on your mobile much easier, it didn't come much simpler then on the first nokia I owned that did years ago.


----------



## grit (Apr 19, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> What can you do to make the user experience better? I've had on at least six phones now and even when I got free/inc video calls, didn't bother with them much.
> 
> Whilst Apple have made using things like the net on your mobile much easier, it didn't come much simpler then on the first nokia I owned that did years ago.



3G video calling has never taken off, there is no reason that would change with iPhones, its a user problem. A lot of the time people just dont want the other person seeing them, myself included.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 19, 2010)

grit said:


> 3G video calling has never taken off, there is no reason that would change with iPhones, its a user problem.



I don't understand why they still bother to include them, I guess because they are so cheap and it was always perceived as being the future. 

What I find intresting is looking the mostly US based tech blogs, I suspect its not something that has been common over there, people seem excited about and predicting dire things will happen to the networks with all the data, whereas most Europeans are meh about the whole thing.


----------



## grit (Apr 19, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> What I find intresting is looking the mostly US based tech blogs, I suspect its not something that has been common over there, people seem excited about and predicting dire things will happen to the networks with all the data, whereas most Europeans are meh about the whole thing.



Asia is the only place where the market developed at all.


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

I imagine Da Yoof demographic would love video calling if it was cheap enough. It would make gigs unbearable though.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 19, 2010)

The major reason it didn't take off, apart from talking being good enough in most conversations, 50p per minute when it started. 

The premium didn't match what the extra feature could offer.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> The major reason it didn't take off, apart from talking being good enough in most conversations, 50p per minute when it started.
> 
> The premium didn't match what the extra feature could offer.



Specially when if you just wait till your both at home you can webcam as long as you like for free.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 19, 2010)

I can think of only two reasons to see the other end of a conversation.  

1. To show someone what is going on, e.g. 'Look baby has learnt to walk!'
2. To get directions from someone who knows the area.

Neither need a front facing camera.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> The major reason it didn't take off, apart from talking being good enough in most conversations, 50p per minute when it started.
> 
> The premium didn't match what the extra feature could offer.



I don't think it was just that, for a few years myself and mates had bundled mins and once we tried it for the novelty, didn't really bother again. like you say Voice is good, and you don't have to worry if you look rough or have to hold a phone in front of your face.


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I can think of only two reasons to see the other end of a conversation.
> 
> 1. To show someone what is going on, e.g. 'Look baby has learnt to walk!'
> 2. To get directions from someone who knows the area.
> ...


"Here I am in front of a big tourist attraction"
"Here I am in front of our family in Australia"
"Here I am in having a great time in the pub"
"Here I am with my fave teen idol playing in the background etc etc"

It's got zero attraction to me, but I can see its appeal if it's cheap and easy to use.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 19, 2010)

I very sometimes use my webcam to talk to my parents and that's it. Never felt the need to use such a thing on the go.


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> I very sometimes use my webcam to talk to my parents and that's it. Never felt the need to use such a thing on the go.


Me neither. But I doubt if you send off 100 texts a day either.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 19, 2010)

they must think there's a market there, or that there isn't one because it hasn't been Done Right Yet


----------



## editor (Apr 19, 2010)

Crispy said:


> they must think there's a market there, or that there isn't one because it hasn't been Done Right Yet


If the quality's good enough, maybe TV journo's/doco makers etc could use it too?

I dunno.  I'm the same as you - I've no interest in cam chats on my phone.

(*obviously the porn industry will find lots of uses)


----------



## elbows (Apr 20, 2010)

Im not really interested in using it for chat but certainly there are some vldeobloggers who might enjoy using it for 'record yourself talking to the camera' stuff. There are the people into live streaming over the net to an audience as well. Not sure there are a large enough number of these people to make a difference to sales at the moment but these seem to be the sorts of features that lots of people moan about when they are absent, even if they dont end up using them much?

Having seen better photos and videos the design looks far more like a real apple one to me than my first impressions. Looks aside, I expect it will feel slightly different to hold but I suppose not so much as to make a large difference, time will tell I guess.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2010)

With phones having huge screens I imagine there's a fee deaf people who might find it useful.


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

So it seems that Gizmodo may have paid $10,000 for the found/stolen handset but here's a curious thing: why haven't Apple slammed them down already with a take down notice?

http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/19/iphone-hd-4g/

The Gizmodo article has now had three million hits!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2010)

Hmmm strategic 'mistake' by Apple?


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Hmmm strategic 'mistake' by Apple?


I can just about buy the 'lost in a bar' bit seeing as the phone looks so convincing, but Apple usually dish out take down notices within minutes for even the _tiniest_ leak. 

Yet the Gizmodo monster-king-size-uber-leak is still online for all the world to see a whole day later.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2010)

Indeed. And isn't this technically theft? Wouldn't they just call the law?


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

Gizmodo have posted up a picture of the Apple guy who lost the phone. Apparently it was weeks ago.
I'm finding this public naming ans shaming a little bit distasteful to be honest.

http://gizmodo.com/5520438/how-apple-lost-the-next-iphone

User comment: 


> You guys are pieces of shit for doing this to this guy. Jesus you're an asshole.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2010)

Lol that's one way to make sure they'll get no more exclusives! Who the hell will risk being a source for them now?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2010)

Reading through that story it sounds even more odd...something about all this really doesn't add up.


----------



## paolo (Apr 20, 2010)

In other (admittedly far less interesting) news:

Opera Mini

Here's a review I've just written:

It's spectacularly shit. Really utterly shit. Just about everything - from compatibility, through rendering, to touch behaviour. Shit.


----------



## paolo (Apr 20, 2010)

editor said:


> Gizmodo have posted up a picture of the Apple guy who lost the phone. Apparently it was weeks ago.
> I'm finding this public naming ans shaming a little bit distasteful to be honest.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5520438/how-apple-lost-the-next-iphone
> ...



yep. That's very wrong. It adds nothing to the tech story, and really fucks someone over for a mistake.


----------



## maldwyn (Apr 20, 2010)

editor said:


> ...Apple usually dish out take down notices within minutes for even the _tiniest_ leak.



It seems they've now asked for it back 



> "It has come to our attention that Gizmodo is currently in possession of a device that belongs to Apple. This letter constitutes a formal request that you return the device to Apple. Please let us know where to pick up the unit."



Guardian

Now get the T-shirt


----------



## ovaltina (Apr 20, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> It's spectacularly shit. Really utterly shit. Just about everything - from compatibility, through rendering, to touch behaviour. Shit.



Maybe it makes more sense on other handsets. I use it on my Nokia a lot, and find it much better and quicker than the default browser. But then my phone doesn't have a fancy pants touch screen


----------



## gabi (Apr 20, 2010)

Re video chat. I use it all the time and I'm not 'da yoof' or even Japanese. After the first coupla tries it gets far more natural. I think it's the best thing about the new iPhone. Besides the retro casing that is.. Which looks very cool indeed.


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 20, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Reading through that story it sounds even more odd...something about all this really doesn't add up.



I know. 
It smells worse than the inside of a North Sea fishing trawler in a heat wave, tbh.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 20, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> Maybe it makes more sense on other handsets. I use it on my Nokia a lot, and find it much better and quicker than the default browser. But then my phone doesn't have a fancy pants touch screen



I know...I even paid for it years ago for my Nokia when it wasn't free, only mobile app I've ever paid for.


----------



## grit (Apr 20, 2010)

Yawn, this is the apple marketing machine at work.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 20, 2010)

grit said:


> Yawn, this is the apple marketing machine at work.


really? has apple ever, since jobs has been in control, allowed a major apple product to fall into the hands of internet journalists 2.5 months before release?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2010)

Pie 1 said:
			
		

> I know.
> It smells worse than the inside of a North Sea fishing trawler in a heat wave, tbh.



Yep maybe it's just the way the story has been told but it feels iffy. Wonder  if this was a planned bit of corporate fucking over by a rival?


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> really? has apple ever, since jobs has been in control, allowed a major apple product to fall into the hands of internet journalists 2.5 months before release?



Possibility of apple 'loosing' a fake iPhone4?

It'd be very amusing if it turns out that Gizmodo have had their trousers yanked down & bent over the nearest table by Apple on this.


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

Whatever the story, all this intense media interest - at a time when Android is launching exciting products that are beginning to really hurt the iPhone - adds up to _priceless_ PR for Apple.

Ten million hits? That's not going to hurt.


----------



## grit (Apr 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> really? has apple ever, since jobs has been in control, allowed a major apple product to fall into the hands of internet journalists 2.5 months before release?



Its an extremely clever PR stunt, because Apple's marketing department are extrmely clever people.

If Apple didnt want this online, it wouldnt be online.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 20, 2010)

editor said:


> Gizmodo have posted up a picture of the Apple guy who lost the phone. Apparently it was weeks ago.
> I'm finding this public naming ans shaming a little bit distasteful to be honest.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5520438/how-apple-lost-the-next-iphone
> ...



well as long as people don't point links at the article, then at least the impact of the distastefulness can be contained somewhat


----------



## teuchter (Apr 20, 2010)

By the way the gizmodo 'leak' article is really badly written. You'd think they could splash out on a decent copywriter or proofreader if they can afford however many thousand dollars for the 'iphone'.
It's not as if reading that article has made me think 'oh this gizmodo website is pretty good - must remember to check it out again in the future'.


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

teuchter said:


> well as long as people don't point links at the article, then at least the impact of the distastefulness can be contained somewhat


LOL. It's all over the web now, mate, including the major news outlets. I don't think a link here is going to make the slightest tot of difference.

As for Gizmodo, it's usually Apple's #1 fanboy site (well, closely vying with Engagdet) so there may be tears before bedtime if Steve Jobs decides to slap them down for this episode.


----------



## gabi (Apr 20, 2010)

editor said:


> Android is launching exciting products



Surely a contradiction in terms?


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

gabi said:


> Surely a contradiction in terms?


The Droid Incredible sure looks exciting to me.


----------



## gabi (Apr 20, 2010)

Fair enough. haven't read much about it...

Are they totally redesigning their OS or something? Coz if not then I can't see em making much of an impact, based on my own brief usage of android.


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

gabi said:


> Fair enough. haven't read much about it...
> 
> Are they totally redesigning their OS or something? Coz if not then I can't see em making much of an impact, based on my own brief usage of android.


The Incredible uses HTC's superb Sense UI, and outguns the iPhone on just about every spec imaginable. How does an 8MP camera with flash and a 3.7″ 800×480 WVGA OLED capacitive display grab you?

The user experience may trail ever so slightly behind Apple's superslick offering, but it's the one to beat in my book.

http://www.wirefresh.com/htc-incredible-specs-leak-and-boy-are-they-juicy/


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

It's official: Apple "believes they have a moral responsibility" to keep porn off the iPhone.







http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/19/steve-jobs-android-porn/


----------



## Kanda (Apr 20, 2010)

Sony do the same with Blue-Ray.


----------



## grit (Apr 20, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Sony do the same with Blue-Ray.



There is tons of porn on blu ray?


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Sony do the same with Blue-Ray.


Does that make it alright then? Do you agree with Jobs' moralistic stance?

Besides, it's not true:


> Sony Corp. said it will not work with the adult film industry to help put its movies on its Blu-ray Disc format, although the company will not try to stop it completely.
> 
> The Blu-ray Disc Association, which oversees the licensing of the technology, says it has not banned anyone from using the format. "We look forward to working with any content providers interested in providing their audience with the best possible high definition home entertainment experience," the group said in a statement.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kanda (Apr 20, 2010)

editor said:


> Does that make it alright then? Do you agree with Jobs' moralistic stance?
> 
> Besides, it's not true:



I don't give a toss if porn is available or not on the iPhone, that's my stance. 

I thought Sony had tried to block porn, my mistake.


----------



## gabi (Apr 20, 2010)

How is he gonna stop 'folks' visiting the likes of youporn, once the flash situation is resolved?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 20, 2010)

There's already plenty of porn sites with iphone versions and h264


----------



## sunnysidedown (Apr 20, 2010)

Apple want the phone back.

http://gizmodo.com/5520479/a-letter-apple-wants-its-secret-iphone-back


I see Maldwyn mentioned this back up there ^


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I don't give a toss if porn is available or not on the iPhone, that's my stance.


OK. So it's fair to say you're ambivalent about corporate moral censorship - in some areas at least - when it comes to technology?


----------



## magneze (Apr 20, 2010)

According to that article the phone has a smaller screen than the 3GS but higher resolution. A smaller screen does seem incredibly unlikely if you ask me especially as much has been made of the size of the Nexus one and Desire screens.


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

magneze said:


> According to that article the phone has a smaller screen than the 3GS but higher resolution. A smaller screen does seem incredibly unlikely if you ask me especially as much has been made of the size of the Nexus one and Desire screens.


I'm quite happy with the resolution of my iPhone, so if they're going to make a higher res screen I'd prefer it to go on a slightly larger physical screen too (like the Desire etc).


----------



## Kanda (Apr 20, 2010)

editor said:


> OK. So it's fair to say you're ambivalent about corporate moral censorship - in some areas at least - when it comes to technology?



When it comes to porn? Yes. I really think it's a trivial matter. Porn is available anyway, via other means than apps.


----------



## grit (Apr 20, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm quite happy with the resolution of my iPhone, so if they're going to make a higher res screen I'd prefer it to go on a slightly larger physical screen too (like the Desire etc).



I was too, then I get the Nexus One and compared to it the iPhone screen is a piece of shit.


----------



## ooo (Apr 20, 2010)

editor said:


> Gizmodo have posted up a picture of the Apple guy who lost the phone. Apparently it was weeks ago.
> I'm finding this public naming ans shaming a little bit distasteful to be honest.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5520438/how-apple-lost-the-next-iphone
> ...



I'd be surprised if the guy didn't get sacked.
Unless he got authorisation to bring the phone out the lab.


----------



## elbows (Apr 20, 2010)

I want a job as an analyst, getting paid to talk a load of bollocks...



> Rob Enderle of the Enderle Group said "the problem for Apple is they are still in the very early stages of the iPad launch" and thinks this leaking of the iPhone takes the focus away from the iPad.
> 
> "It may mean some people might change their mind about buying an iPad and hold out instead for the iPhone which will be out in the summer."



http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/maggieshiels/2010/04/iphone_intrigue.html

OK yes Im sure there are a few reasons Apple didnt want the focus to be on the new iphone yet, but people not buying an iPad because of it? Different sort of device, duh.


----------



## grit (Apr 20, 2010)

ooo said:


> I'd be surprised if the guy didn't get sacked.
> Unless he got authorisation to bring the phone out the lab.



I wouldnt, its a PR stunt.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 20, 2010)

grit said:


> I wouldnt, its a PR stunt.


What makes you so sure?


----------



## grit (Apr 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> What makes you so sure?



If apple didnt want this online, it wouldnt be. They have whole teams dedicated to shutting this stuff down quickly and legally.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 20, 2010)

I'm not convinced, it'll be interesting to see if Apple do anything about Gizmodo. That'll help confirm that idea or not.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 20, 2010)

We'll they've asked for it back and Giz have spoken to the person who lost it.


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I'm not convinced, it'll be interesting to see if Apple do anything about Gizmodo. That'll help confirm that idea or not.


Love ZDNet's photo accompanying their article:

*How will Apple punish Gizmodo?*







Blimey - read this link from the article:


> Apple legal will subpoena Gizmodo’s ISP request all of its email for  three years so that it can find the leak. (No wait, Apple did that to  me.)




http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=6676


----------



## grit (Apr 20, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I'm not convinced, it'll be interesting to see if Apple do anything about Gizmodo. That'll help confirm that idea or not.



If it was going to happen it would have already.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 20, 2010)

They asked for it back, then they will carry on like nothing happened.

That's what I'd do.  Then make a joke about it at launch.  This stuff is very hard to stop sometimes so just have to shrug and get on with it.  Just try harder to make sure it doesn't happen again.

Its not like it not known that one is on the cards and people buying an iPhone and an iPad are very different markets.


----------



## grit (Apr 20, 2010)

Sunray said:


> .  This stuff is very hard to stop sometimes



Not to a company with billions and an army of lawyers.


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

Can I just add that the Lonely Planet city guide iPhone apps are all free at the moment, and the London one lists urban75 at the top of their new media section, describing the site as, "outstanding and original."

That is all.

*looks for smug smiley


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2010)

Free you say...? Weren't they like a fiver a piece before?


----------



## grit (Apr 20, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Free you say...? Weren't they like a fiver a piece before?



Its a nice marketing gimick for people stranded due to the ash.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 20, 2010)

grit said:


> Not to a company with billions and an army of lawyers.



*points at Gizmodo article*  

I must write to their lawyers and their bank balance to congratulate them on a job well done.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2010)

grit said:
			
		

> Its a nice marketing gimick for people stranded due to the ash.



I just downloaded 13 of em, at full price that lot would have cost me nearly 80 quid! Gimmick or not I'm pretty fucking happy.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 20, 2010)

they're not all free - I just spent a tenner by mistake!


----------



## grit (Apr 20, 2010)

Sunray said:


> *points at Gizmodo article*
> 
> I must write to their lawyers and their bank balance to congratulate them on a job well done.





your post doesn't make sense


----------



## spitfire (Apr 20, 2010)

it's just 13 that are free:

http://inside-digital.blog.lonelyplanet.com/2010/04/19/lp-volcano-rescue/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2010)

Crispy said:
			
		

> they're not all free - I just spent a tenner by mistake!



Lol how?? They're clearly marked!


----------



## Crispy (Apr 20, 2010)

well yes, so was the Low Doorway I banged my head on once. I'm not _made_ of perfect!


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

New Guardian piece which some may find of interest:


> *How Apple could bite the free press*
> Apple is hailed by many as saviour of the news industry, but its iPad and iPhone aren't entirely compatible with an open society
> 
> ...Journalists, meanwhile, might consider rethinking their love affair with a company that arrogates unto itself the right to act as judge, jury and executioner as to what it will make available to the public and what it won't.
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 20, 2010)

Crispy said:
			
		

> well yes, so was the Low Doorway I banged my head on once. I'm not made of perfect!



Lol!


----------



## Kanda (Apr 20, 2010)

Bit OTT really. Jobs has already said the Fiore thing was a mistake. Pretty sure he isn't going to censor an app by any major publisher, their content will get through fine if the app isn't a peice of shit.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 20, 2010)

That is probably the stupidest article I have yet to read, given that it completely confuses "the App Store" with "content on the iPad/iPhone" - it's not a typo, the author just doesn't have a fucking clue what any of this is about.


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2010)

I like this guy's writing better:



> On This Week in Google last night, I went too far slathering over the iPad and some of its very neat apps (ABC’s is great; I watched the Modern Family about the iPad on the iPad and smugly loved being so meta). I am a toy boy at heart and didn’t stop to cast a critical eye, as TWiG’s iPadless Gina Trapani did. This morning on Twitter, I went too far the other way kvetching about the inconveniences of the iPad’s limitations (just a fucking USB, please!) in compensation. That’s the problem with Twitter, at least for my readers: it’s thinking out loud.
> 
> http://www.buzzmachine.com/2010/04/04/ipad-danger-app-v-web-consumer-v-creator/


----------



## pboi (Apr 21, 2010)

Adobe throws in the towel on Flash for iPhone
Seth Weintraub | April 20, 2010 | iProducts 
Share
 Adobe is basically saying they've given up on Apple's iPhoneOS products. Principal Product Manager for developer relations for the Flash Platform at Adobe, Mike Chambers lays out the bad news for Flash developers who'd want an easy way to port their apps to iPhone. 

While CS5 will still export for the current iPhone, they are warning developers that Apple will probably pull their "100+ apps already built in Flash"from the App Store at some point in the future and, most importantly, Adobe have suspended all investments in Flash CS5's iPhone App export functionality.

What's interesting is Chambers says they are going to learn from their experience on the iPhone and put their energy behind Android phones and tablets.   He's excited about Android.  But Is Google excited about Flash?  Remember, it was Youtube that went to H.264-encoded MP4s (and made lack of Flash on the iPhone that much more bearable).  That wasn't because Google was head over heals for depending on Flash and their technology.

At this point in time, with Google being the underdog in the field, the Android folk are probably looking for differentiators to Apple's dominant iPhone platform.  Flash is definitely different and brings with it hundreds of thousands of ready-built apps.  Plus, it is better to have friends in the industry rather than enemies.  Speaking of which, no recent Adobe blog post would be complete without a jab at Apple:

To be clear, during the entire development cycle of Flash CS5, the feature complied with Apple’s licensing terms. However, as developers for the iPhone have learned, if you want to develop for the iPhone you have to be prepared for Apple to reject or restrict your development at anytime, and for seemingly any reason. In just the past week Apple also changed its licensing terms to essentially prohibit ad networks other than its own on the iPhone, and it came to light that Apple had rejected an application from a Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist on editorial grounds (which Apple later said was a “mistake”).


----------



## Structaural (Apr 21, 2010)

http://gizmodo.com/5520746/apple-didnt-leak-the-iphoneand-why-that-matters

Interesting, they were already on Apple's shitlist



> (It bears mentioning that Apple also will remove advertising from outlets that it is unhappy with, as they did with Gizmodo ever since we reported on Steve Jobs' health problems. Fortunately in organizations with a clear wall between edit and advertising—not perfect at Gawker, but as good or better as any other outlet I've ever worked for—it isn't a concern for the writing staff.)


----------



## Pie 1 (Apr 21, 2010)

editor said:


> the London one lists urban75 at the top of their new media section, describing the site as, "outstanding and original."



The also list XFM as "your best chance of hearing interesting music these days"


----------



## Crispy (Apr 21, 2010)

It's well out of date - 2008 is in the future according to LP!


----------



## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> It's well out of date - 2008 is in the future according to LP!


Don't spoil it for me!   

Back to Apple, that big ban stick just keeps on giving:

Apple Rejects Kid-Friendly Programming App
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/apple-scratch-app/


----------



## Crispy (Apr 21, 2010)

The rules (shitty though they may be) are very clear on the running of interpreted code


----------



## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> The rules (shitty though they may be) are very clear on the running of interpreted code


Let's see if Jobs pulls a few strings for his old pal and turns a blind eye once again, just like he did for Playboy and the corporate lads mags during his recent Puritanical purge.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 21, 2010)

I doubt it - the content bans are very handwavy and vague and open to interpretation, but the "no interpreters" rule is pretty straightforward, unless they change the rules to include only interpreters with certain functions.

Actually, I have seen an emulator for an old programmable calculator. Shhh! Nobody tell Steve!


----------



## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I doubt it - the content bans are very handwavy and vague and open to interpretation, but the "no interpreters" rule is pretty straightforward, unless they change the rules to include only interpreters with certain functions.


The no soft porn/no boobies'n'bikinis rule seemed pretty straightforward too.


----------



## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

So the cartoon app gets reinstated, but the author is more than a little cynical. He sounds like a decent chap.


> “It feels a little weird, it feels almost a little dirty, like I got preferential treatment because of the Pulitzer and press hubbub because of the rejection of my app,” Fiore told the SF Gate. “If it weren't for the Pulitzer, I wouldn’t be in the App Store. What I want to come out of this is to change this policy so people don’t have to make a stink to make decent political satire for the App Store.“
> 
> http://www.macworld.co.uk/mac/news/index.cfm?RSS&NewsID=3221143





> Technically, Fiore is still in violation of the developer agreement. He wants those restrictions to come down and said that even as a private firm, Apple has a responsibility as a media company to open its door to more content.
> 
> "I'm clearly in violation now of Apple's developer agreement," he said. "What I'm hoping this means is they're closer to altering the developer agreement."
> 
> ...


----------



## chintz (Apr 21, 2010)

Not sure if anyone is interested in this but iPhone Lonely Planet guides ( European) are free on the itunes store until Thursday (22) instead of the  9 quid they usually are


----------



## Kanda (Apr 21, 2010)

chintz said:


> Not sure if anyone is interested in this but iPhone Lonely Planet guides ( European) are free on the itunes store until Thursday (22) instead of the  9 quid they usually are



Look back a page


----------



## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

Anyone tried the dreadfully named Wozzon app? (what's on info)

http://itunes.apple.com/app/wozzon-for-whats-on-in-uk/id311921555?mt=8


----------



## chintz (Apr 21, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Look back a page



D'oh


----------



## Gromit (Apr 21, 2010)

chintz said:


> D'oh



Well i didn't know, until i read your post, missed the other one.

So ta anyways.


----------



## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

Veh nice:

The Cloud knock out Fast Connnect free Wi-Fi tool for iPhone/o2 customers
http://www.wirefresh.com/the-cloud-knock-out-fast-connnect-free-wi-fi-tool-for-iphoneo2-customers/


----------



## Gromit (Apr 21, 2010)

Free cloud abroad? Since when? 

Thats one thing i didn't consider swapping from O2 to T Mobile by buying a Desire.

My mobile internet is miiiiiiles better. But I've lost access to tons of free WiFi hospots.

Still Whetherspoon and MacDonalds should still be free yes?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 21, 2010)

editor said:


> Veh nice:
> 
> The Cloud knock out Fast Connnect free Wi-Fi tool for iPhone/o2 customers
> http://www.wirefresh.com/the-cloud-knock-out-fast-connnect-free-wi-fi-tool-for-iphoneo2-customers/



That'll be very handy, if it works, anyway. I've never been able to connect to any of the wifi I'm supposed to be able to with O2. Admittedly it's never been a serious issue with free data anyway but if I go abroad, that's very different.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 21, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That'll be very handy, if it works, anyway. I've never been able to connect to any of the wifi I'm supposed to be able to with O2. Admittedly it's never been a serious issue with free data anyway but if I go abroad, that's very different.



You have to register with them 1st.  Find a wifi spot like a station or a McDonalds and then look at the list for cloud or BT Openzone.  

Connect to that, its no secure.  When you do all you can browse to is the login page.  Enter your mobile number and wait a while. Took mine about 5 minutes before it came back.   Now I don't have to do anything.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 21, 2010)

Sunray said:
			
		

> You have to register with them 1st.  Find a wifi spot like a station or a McDonalds and then look at the list for cloud or BT Openzone.
> 
> Connect to that, its no secure.  When you do all you can browse to is the login page.  Enter your mobile number and wait a while. Took mine about 5 minutes before it came back.   Now I don't have to do anything.



Took me under thirty seconds when I did it...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 21, 2010)

I've registered, I do all the stuff on the connection page with the number and so on, nothing ever happens. Possibly there's some extra problem with PAYG. I'm not vastly fussed to be fair.


----------



## editor (Apr 21, 2010)

Fucking hell. Gizmodo are *still* going on and on and on about their 4G iPhone exclusive. Best user comment is the first one: 



> Should I keep milking it, Pa?
> 
> Yep, Son. That's pure gold you got there in your hands. Pure gold, boy.
> 
> http://gizmodo.com/5520772/its-not-about-the-iphone


----------



## Sunray (Apr 21, 2010)

I have seen a few rumors about Apple offering a fully connected TV, one that both looks cool as stuff from Apple generally does but might actually be quite easy to use and had full connectivity to iTunes.

I think that they might have a bit of a winner with that even in such a crowded market.

If hell froze over and make it divx compatible so I could play my stuff off the network or a NAS then I'd be well interested.


----------



## Kanda (Apr 21, 2010)

Sunray said:


> If hell froze over and make it divx compatible so I could play my stuff off the network or a NAS then I'd be well interested.



This ^^ won't happen till it's hacked.


----------



## themonkeyman (Apr 22, 2010)

Sunray said:


> You have to register with them 1st.  Find a wifi spot like a station or a McDonalds and then look at the list for cloud or BT Openzone.
> 
> Connect to that, its no secure.  When you do all you can browse to is the login page.  Enter your mobile number and wait a while. Took mine about 5 minutes before it came back.   Now I don't have to do anything.



Yeah, see I have done this and everytime I connect to a BT Openzone free wifi point it doesn't work, I have to turn off wifi and stick with 3g.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 22, 2010)

Tbh, I've usually found that 3g is as quick, or even quicker than most of the BTOpenzone/Cloud WiFi hotspots I've tried to use.

My 3g appears to have died a death this morning. The home button is completely dead. This, as you can imagine, is problematic.

I was hoping it would last, oh say... another couple of months.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 22, 2010)

Yeah btopenzone spots rarely work at all for me, its always the connection on the internet side is fooked rather than the wifi..... just stick with 3g.......

how long til wimax starts rolling out do we all think? Id liek to see this on the iphone in the future.


----------



## grit (Apr 22, 2010)

sim667 said:


> how long til wimax starts rolling out do we all think? Id liek to see this on the iphone in the future.



A long long time.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 22, 2010)

*currently desperately trying to install a soft home button app, via Cydia*


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 22, 2010)

sim667 said:


> how long til wimax starts rolling out do we all think? Id liek to see this on the iphone in the future.



I'd be more then happy with full speed 3g/HSDPA connections!


----------



## elbows (Apr 22, 2010)

Uh oh there are rumours that Apple may be interested in acquiring ARM - if they did that then they could really screw the competition and it could be very bad news. Hopefully its not true.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/stand...lame-with-takeover-talk-of-arm-and-xstrata.do


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 22, 2010)

It was in the reg yesterday as well.



> London's financial district is "aflame" with rumors of a possible takeover of ARM by a company that only yesterday announced that it was sitting on a cash reserve of $41.7bn: Apple.
> 
> With that amount of liquidity sloshing around, such a takeover would be by no means unrealistic for Jobs & Co.
> ...
> ...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 22, 2010)

That's going to be seriously shitty if they do


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 22, 2010)

Maybe it would encourage Intel to get more serious about the mobile chip market?


----------



## editor (Apr 22, 2010)

Android running on the iPhone!
http://www.wirefresh.com/android-runs-on-the-iphone-video-and-instructions/


----------



## editor (Apr 22, 2010)

The fallout from Gizmodo's unsavoury 4G exclusive continues with this damning piece from Daring Fireball



> I have two issues regarding Gizmodo’s actions regarding this story.
> 
> First, I’m fascinated by their apparently cavalier attitude regarding the legal implications of their actions. I’m not offended by their decision to obtain this unit and publish everything they were able to ascertain regarding it. It simply boggles my mind the stakes they have effectively wagered that Apple will not pursue this legally.
> 
> ...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 22, 2010)

That guy needs to get out more.


----------



## elbows (Apr 22, 2010)

I was pretty appauled by Gizmodos publishing of the guys name & photo, I would boycott them but I dont look at their site very often anyway.


----------



## grit (Apr 22, 2010)

editor said:


> The fallout from Gizmodo's unsavoury 4G exclusive continues with this damning piece from Daring Fireball



Daring fireball is an apple groupie, so I wouldnt expect anything less from him.

To longer this goes on with no legal action the more it supports the theory that its a PR stunt.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 22, 2010)

I've now managed to get an App installed which lets you configure the "shake" function to "return to home screen".

Hardware fault "fixed" with software!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 25, 2010)

IPhone makes you sexy, FACT!

http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/21/54-of-women-more-likely-to-date-men-with-iphones-says-iphone-retailer/

And lol about Palm Pre owners!





(note to Ed, I'm joking this is clearly bollox)


----------



## Lazy Llama (Apr 25, 2010)

Bit of a disclaimer on that press release  - http://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...es-are-more-attractive-to-women-91714409.html


----------



## Sunray (Apr 26, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Yeah btopenzone spots rarely work at all for me, its always the connection on the internet side is fooked rather than the wifi..... just stick with 3g.......
> 
> how long til wimax starts rolling out do we all think? Id liek to see this on the iphone in the future.



I keep pointing out to people WiMax is dead for lots of reason.

Even Clearwire in the US, the largest WiMax provider in the country have said so.  

http://www.von.com/news/clearwire-says-it-could-ditch-wimax-for-lte.html

Possibly expect LTE for the next one as Verizon are starting to roll out their LTE network.  

Forget about new phones and technology, get the operators to have full HSDPA across the country would be enough.  Its up to 7Mb/s which is plenty and that works with your 3G phone right now. Actually goes to 14Mbs but I think the 3GS only supports 7.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 26, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Forget about new phones and technology, get the operators to have full HSDPA across the country would be enough.  Its up to 7Mb/s which is plenty and that works with your 3G phone right now. Actually goes to 14Mbs but I think the 3GS only supports 7.



My phone can't render webpages that quickly, so I guess it will do. 

In the meantime I'd quite like a home connection that quick and 3g or Edge where I live.


----------



## editor (Apr 26, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I keep pointing out to people WiMax is dead for lots of reason.
> 
> Even Clearwire in the US, the largest WiMax provider in the country have said so.
> 
> ...


That article - which says they '_could_' ditch Wimax - is over six months old - but the company is still providing WiMax with the coverage growing.



> Several operators have announced upgrades to 4G broadband networks. CITI notes that by 2013, Verizon Wireless plans to roll out Long Term Evolution (LTE)—a 4G mobile broadband technology—to its entire footprint, which currently covers more than 285 million people.
> 
> AT&T has announced it will test LTE in 2010 and begin rollout in 2011. Through its partnership with Clearwire, Sprint plans to use WiMAX as its 4G technology. WiMAX has been rolled out in a few markets already, and Clearwire plans to cover 120 million people with WiMAX by the end of 2010.
> 
> http://broadbandbreakfast.com/2010/03/connecting-america-chapter-3-current-state-of-the-ecosystem/


----------



## Sunray (Apr 26, 2010)

OK, have a newer one then

http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/192307/sprint_clearwire_warm_up_to_lte.html

Remember that in the next couple of years, you will start to see LTE equipped phones on the shelves and in 5 years it will be the standard communication standard assuming that the networks roll it out fast enough.

Most all the big operators have stated they will be offering LTE. These things take a while to sort and make so the phone people need to be clear on what it going to be used in the future so they can make stuff that will work on it.


----------



## elbows (Apr 26, 2010)

That article says



> However, neither he nor Sprint CEO Dan Hesse exactly waved a white flag of surrender in the competition between WiMax and LTE.



and



> Still, Morrow said WiMax is far from dead. He said 600 million people around the world are within reach of a WiMax network and 1 billion will be by the end of this year. "That's a market that's big enough to be around for a long time," he said.



Hardly the same as WiMax being dead.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 26, 2010)

The CEO of the largest WiMax supplier in the US isn't going to be saying that the technology they are using is dead.

Its not dead for us in the UK, because that would imply that its there to be used and its not and never will be.  All the operators in the UK are currently engaged in adopting LTE.  

This is all an irrelevance because they can't even get their 3G networks up to speed with current technology.


----------



## grit (Apr 26, 2010)

Ok now I believe the gizmodo 4g phone was not a PR stunt. The cops just raided his house and seized his machines.


----------



## elbows (Apr 26, 2010)

Sunray said:


> The CEO of the largest WiMax supplier in the US isn't going to be saying that the technology they are using is dead.



Well Im not claiming the technology has a bright future but you were the one who claimed that Clearwire have said its dead.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 27, 2010)

For the doubters.









> The backstory of the lost fourth-gen iPhone prototype acquired by Gizmodo last week is certainly already the stuff of some legend, but hold on tight, because it just got even wilder: Giz editor Jason Chen's house was apparently raided by California's REACT computer crimes task force under the authority of a search warrant on Friday night and his computers and several other items were seized. That means a criminal investigation led by the San Mateo police and district attorney is almost certainly in full swing, which is, well, crazy.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 27, 2010)

grit said:


> Ok now I believe the gizmodo 4g phone was not a PR stunt. The cops just raided his house and seized his machines.



Possibly illegally too (the press have protection against that sort of thing)


----------



## grit (Apr 27, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Possibly illegally too (the press have protection against that sort of thing)



True, still cant find out why exactly he was raided. Its not beyond the bounds of possibility that it was actually for something else, but the timing obviously suggests its 4g related .


----------



## ooo (Apr 27, 2010)

grit said:


> True, still cant find out why exactly he was raided. Its not beyond the bounds of possibility that it was actually for something else, but the timing obviously suggests its 4g related .



Receiving a stolen good is illegal in california.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/pda/2010/apr/26/iphone-gizmodo-police-search-apple


----------



## grit (Apr 27, 2010)

ooo said:


> Receiving a stolen good is illegal in california.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/pda/2010/apr/26/iphone-gizmodo-police-search-apple



Of course! 

In all the excitement the boring legality of it didn't even enter my mind!


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2010)

grit said:


> True, still cant find out why exactly he was raided. Its not beyond the bounds of possibility that it was actually for something else, but the timing obviously suggests its 4g related .


It's Apple's revenge, part one.


----------



## grit (Apr 27, 2010)

editor said:


> It's Apple's revenge, part one.



I wonder if they contacted him with a cease and desist, he said fuck off.

Then they called in the big guns. Seems a heavy handed move (even for jobs!) to be the first step.


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2010)

And they're back to banning editorial cartoonists after Steve Jobs got his mate back on.



> Should newspaper editorial cartoonists be banned from drawing cartoons about some selected, famous people? Many believe we should not be allowed to draw the Prophet Muhammad – but how about banning us from drawing Tiger Woods? If Apple has its way, iPhone users won’t see cartoonists commenting about Tiger, and other topics that might ridicule selected public figures.
> 
> I distribute my own cartoons, and the work of dozens of other top editorial cartoonists from around the world to newspapers, Web sites and now to Apple’s iPhone and iPad. As the audience for news and opinion has grown on the iPhone, we’ve put more effort into developing editorial cartoon apps that show all the latest cartoons that the cartoonists draw on different topics.
> 
> ...


----------



## Gromit (Apr 27, 2010)

editor said:


> It's Apple's revenge, part one.


 
I'm not sure.

If you lose an item you are meant to report it to the police. If the police discover it was taken and not handed into the police but sold instead then they are obliged to launch a criminal investigation. 

Nine times out of ten they have no leads and the case ends.

This time evidence of the crime was plastered all over the internet and the news. Case open.

Nothing has happened here other than what should happen. Not to say that Apple won't be enjoying the fact that its happening.

Personally I think Gizmodo did Apple a favour. 

With the release of the Desire and no news of the next iPhone due for months they were going to lose customers to the latest phone/s available.

People may hold out for the iPhone release now that appitites have been wetted and now we know for sure that there really is a new phone. I was scared that we weren't going to see one any time soon and bought a Desire before all this broke.

If Apple had done an official early release people would have thought they were scare of the competition. This happening instead helps them with no lose of face.

Unfortunately for Gizmodo the court case will be publicity for Apple too. With their name being mentioned and there product being mentioned. So I can't see Apple refusing to press charges. Or if they do it won't be early in the process but later when they've had plenty of publicity first.


----------



## grit (Apr 27, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I'm not sure.
> 
> If you lose an item you are meant to report it to the police. If the police discover it was taken and not handed into the police but sold instead then they are obliged to launch a criminal investigation.
> 
> ...



It seems far too minor a case for the cops to be so proactive, they got a call.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 27, 2010)

grit said:


> It seems far too minor a case for the cops to be so proactive, they got a call.


 
Or you are the cop who logged the report. See the news and thinks shit if I don't follow this up and it escalates my arse will be in a sling. Questions will be asked why i did nothing.

Or someone higher up the police food chain sees a political opportunity.

Or someone higher up the police food chain is automatically protective of their major local going concern.

or a combination of these and / or a call.


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I'm not sure.


I am. Apple - who are very, very well acquainted with using the legal process to protect their assets -  wants to send out a nice loud message to anyone else thinking of running any future exclusives.

Don't forget, this is the company who wanted to make jailbreaking _your own phone _an* illegal* act!

http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/02/apple-says-jailbreaking-illegal


----------



## grit (Apr 27, 2010)

From talking to some of my American mates, the big problem is he paid 5k for it. This turns it from a misdemeanor into a felony.


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2010)

grit said:


> From talking to some of my American mates, the big problem is he paid 5k for it. This turns it from a misdemeanor into a felony.


The twats from Gizmodo behaved disgracefully - especially the despicable way they taunted the poor sod who lost his phone - but it's in Apple's clear interest to make sure everyone knows that whoever tries it again will get well and truly slapped down.

Again: this is the company who withdrew all advertising from that site because they didn't like a single article that was written about their boss, amongst the endless free fanboy publicity usually served up. 

They're free to do as they please of course, but it gives you some insight into their mindset.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 27, 2010)

grit said:


> From talking to some of my American mates, the big problem is he paid 5k for it. This turns it from a misdemeanor into a felony.



I've been wondering if IP laws have been broken too. Releasing spec of a product to Apple's competitors via press release is as damaging to them as much as if specs had been stolen by an industrial spy and sold to Nokia.


----------



## grit (Apr 27, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I've been wondering if IP laws have been broken too. Releasing spec of a product to Apple's competitors via press release is as damaging to them as much as if specs had been stolen by an industrial spy and sold to Nokia.



I think thats pushing it to be honest. They didnt release a spec and listing what the components are is not copyrighted.


----------



## Structaural (Apr 27, 2010)

editor said:


> The twats from Gizmodo behaved disgracefully - especially the despicable way they taunted the poor sod who lost his phone - but it's in Apple's clear interest to make sure everyone knows that whoever tries it again will get well and truly slapped down.
> 
> Again: this is the company who withdrew all advertising from that site because they didn't like a single article that was written about their boss, amongst the endless free fanboy publicity usually served up.
> 
> They're free to do as they please of course, but it gives you some insight into their mindset.



Hmm, Apple is on the steering committee for the REACT task force that raided Chen’s house. link


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Hmm, Apple is on the steering committee for the REACT task force that raided Chen’s house. link



Hmm indeed...





> In either case, it's hard to imagine — even if you grant that a theft may have occurred under California law, which requires people who come across lost items to make a good-faith effort to return them to their owner — how the loss of a single phone in a bar merits the involvement of an elite task force of local, state, and federal authorities devoted to "reducing the incidence of high technology crime through the apprehension of the professional organizers of large-scale criminal activities," as the REACT website motto characterizes its mission.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 27, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Unfortunately for Gizmodo the court case will be publicity for Apple too. With their name being mentioned and there product being mentioned. So I can't see Apple refusing to press charges. Or if they do it won't be early in the process but later when they've had plenty of publicity first.



I think it could be good publicitity for Giz as well. How many people have heard of them now who hadn't before? How many more will hear of them when this story hits the mainstream media. They're going to milk this for all its worth!


----------



## g force (Apr 27, 2010)

Gromit said:


> I
> Personally I think Gizmodo did Apple a favour.
> 
> With the release of the Desire and no news of the next iPhone due for months they were going to lose customers to the latest phone/s available.
> ...



I'm not so sure that's true because so many people are tied to 18-24 month contracts, esp those on the 3G/S that they can't swap phones without paying a hefty price. 1st Gen 2G users maybe but they'd likely be offered a decent upgrade to stick with the iPhone.

And if you've spent a fair whack on apps why would suddenly switch to Android?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 27, 2010)

Indeed. My 3g is slowly dying a death, but I'm going to hold out for the new one.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 27, 2010)

g force said:


> I'm not so sure that's true because so many people are tied to 18-24 month contracts, esp those on the 3G/S that they can't swap phones without paying a hefty price. 1st Gen 2G users maybe but they'd likely be offered a decent upgrade to stick with the iPhone.
> 
> And if you've spent a fair whack on apps why would suddenly switch to Android?


 
My 3G contract ran out January. I'm sure plenty of other 3G users are also out of contract. Like me they may be well miffed that they weren't offered a free upgrade to 3GS. We got one when we were 2G users.

I was hoping to hold out till June.

I didn't make it. Impatience and the fact me 3G was starting to show signs of age.

I've had to write off the aps I had. Well they aren't totally lost. I'm using the phone as an iPod touch atm.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 27, 2010)

grit said:


> I think thats pushing it to be honest. They didnt release a spec and listing what the components are is not copyrighted.


 
Size, shape, look, screen, front facing cam etc.

Its not a detailed spec but its info competitors will use to when deciding how to compete against future a Apple product where previously they only had pure speculation to go on.


----------



## grit (Apr 27, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Size, shape, look, screen, front facing cam etc.
> 
> Its not a detailed spec but its info competitors will use to when deciding how to compete against future a Apple product where previously they only had pure speculation to go on.



They couldn't tell fuck all about the screen no resolution was reported, the size and shape are not really relevant as pretty much everything now is around the same form factor.

The device was a brick pretty much the camera was the only give away. That said IP laws are retarded, so its possible


----------



## Sunray (Apr 27, 2010)

g force said:


> I'm not so sure that's true because so many people are tied to 18-24 month contracts, esp those on the 3G/S that they can't swap phones without paying a hefty price. 1st Gen 2G users maybe but they'd likely be offered a decent upgrade to stick with the iPhone.
> 
> And if you've spent a fair whack on apps why would suddenly switch to Android?



I'm well out of contract on my 3G.  I see nothing to challenge it for features once v4 comes out tbf.

I'm quite easy on the specs, faster CPU is what I am looking forward to most.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 27, 2010)

I'm in an 18 month but been given the option to upgrade early September instead of December. Will take a serious look at the options. Was hoping by then Palm would have a second WebOS device out too...


----------



## Crispy (Apr 27, 2010)

I wish they had just put a ruler on the thing, powered it up and taken a macro photo to get the pixel count


----------



## hendo (Apr 27, 2010)

grit said:


> From talking to some of my American mates, the big problem is he paid 5k for it. This turns it from a misdemeanor into a felony.



As a hack I'm fascinated by what's going on in the Gizmodo case. 

If the bloke wants to be thought of as a journalist a bit of rat-like cunning would have been a good idea.

He shouldn't have owned up to paying for the thing. The D Tel never did for the MPs expenses CDs although everyone said they did. It was still a stonking good story and so was Gizmodo's.

And they never should have named the hapless Apple bloke who left it in the bar; really that's almost the equivalent of burning a source.  

I think Gizmodo should simply have done the exclusive and let everyone else work out how they got it.    

The police have acted in a completely OTT manner and obviously this won't end here. The US is massively litigous and everyone seems to have enthusiastic lawyers.

And as for Apple they can stick their ipad if this is the kind of thing they sign off on. It is repressive. The company should disassociate itself or face a PR backlash.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 27, 2010)

It's easy to forget it when reading the gadget press but the majority of people aren't that interested in changing phones, let alone platforms, let alone platforms where it means that they'll lose stuff they've paid for. A certain number of neophiles might have been in the position where they were thinking "I'm not waiting to see what apple are doing for June, I'm going android now" but I suspect even in that group it would only be those who had other reasons anyway. People are still using 1st and 2nd gen iPhones, and I expect that I'll have my 3GS quite happily for at least two or three more years, unless I break it or something; by keeping additional hardware features to performance improvements and small features you ensure that the platform remains the primary point of the device. It is not like some Nokia where there's little reason not to get a Sony.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 27, 2010)

Fridge you are a sensible person and so can't comprehend the 'must have' market who have money to burn and do leap from product to product early purely cause its the very latest ting. 

Apple love this market. It's their target audience.


----------



## tarannau (Apr 27, 2010)

They've got a target market of over 30 million early-adopters for the iphone alone?

It's a tiny proportion of their market to be fair, nor is their simple marketing aimed at true techs. There are other manufacturers who offer more bleeding edge specs and functionality, but very few are as well designed and effective straight out of the box.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 27, 2010)

That I have a load of apps I'd have to buy again does seriously influence my decision to stay all things Apple.


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Fridge you are a sensible person and so can't comprehend the 'must have' market who have money to burn and do leap from product to product early purely cause its the very latest ting.
> 
> Apple love this market. It's their target audience.


I've changed OS four times in the last eighteen months or so: palm OS -> Android -> webOS -> iPhone.

I'll probably change again when I get chance.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 27, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Fridge you are a sensible person and so can't comprehend the 'must have' market who have money to burn and do leap from product to product early purely cause its the very latest ting.
> 
> Apple love this market. It's their target audience.



The thing is that I think that's the opposite of their target audience.

There are people who will buy every new apple product, but that's brand loyalty, and they have that market sewn up obviously. Apart from that, Apple do three things that make them crap for the compulsive early adopter market:

1. They don't release many products at all;
2. when they do, they don't release them across feature sets and price points, they just release a couple of models if that;
3. If there's any competition in whatever market they are releasing in, their products are arguably underfeatured. Gadget people like feature lists because that's pretty much all you can go on for a new device.

What they are good at though is creating consumer loyalty, through careful ui and general experience work, not locking out old devices, and increasingly now creating a walled but very comfortable for the actual software.

The gadget blogs go mad for new apple stuff because it's shiny gadget porn, but they forget next week because there's more shiny stuff around. The real gadget addicts are the ones in the comments saying "WTF are you doing talking about apple again?"


----------



## madamv (Apr 27, 2010)

So for my phone upgrade due in anytime but contract is up in July, should I convert to iphone?    I dont have an ipod, so I can see its good for that but it has a low pixel camera and no flash?   I use my phone for pics alot, but granted it is only snaps and mostly during the day....  Guide me oh phone geeks...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 27, 2010)

Well, the new model iPhone should be out in June anyway, so I'd just wait to see what it looks like and what deals you can get if you're thinking about it. That has a flash and better camera and better hardware generally.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 27, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's easy to forget it when reading the gadget press but the majority of people aren't that interested in changing phones, let alone platforms, let alone platforms where it means that they'll lose stuff they've paid for. A certain number of neophiles might have been in the position where they were thinking "I'm not waiting to see what apple are doing for June, I'm going android now" but I suspect even in that group it would only be those who had other reasons anyway. People are still using 1st and 2nd gen iPhones, and I expect that I'll have my 3GS quite happily for at least two or three more years, unless I break it or something; by keeping additional hardware features to performance improvements and small features you ensure that the platform remains the primary point of the device. It is not like some Nokia where there's little reason not to get a Sony.



Ime people generally don't care about changing phones but are loath to change networks. The amount of people that used to ask when the iPhone is coming out on other networks because they didn't want to change (even though moving your number barely takes more than 48 hours) was crazy.


----------



## madamv (Apr 27, 2010)

Thanks FM, and I agree Kid Eternity.  I am really happy with my provider and moved once and moved back after a year.  It was easy enough to change, but I find that the pricing isnt that different for the package I need, the coverage is superior and the staff really good.  Also, they give me discount every renewal so its a big incentive to stay...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 27, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ime people generally don't care about changing phones but are loath to change networks. The amount of people that used to ask when the iPhone is coming out on other networks because they didn't want to change (even though moving your number barely takes more than 48 hours) was crazy.



If you get good coverage with one provider and they reward your loyalty with better tariffs it can be a strong incentive to stay. 

The few times I've switched number, I've always ended up paying more for the month I switch, its almost impossible to line up when the old contract ends and the new one starts.


----------



## editor (Apr 28, 2010)

o2 have got shit coverage and that'll be a major incentive for me to switch networks and/or phones unless they've sorted it out.


----------



## Gromit (Apr 28, 2010)

editor said:


> o2 have got shit coverage and that'll be a major incentive for me to switch networks and/or phones unless they've sorted it out.



He's right. The O2 network sucks big time. Thats why they were so keen on getting the iPhone exclusively. As a selling point as their service isn't one.

Now they lost exclusively i can see lots of O2 iPhone customers jumping ship to their previous networks.


----------



## editor (Apr 28, 2010)

Another weird app rejection - this time for a writer for Vanity Fair:



> Apple has rejected an app version of this column—which, on a relatively frequent basis goes out of its way to analyze the odd behavior of Steve Jobs.
> 
> My last effort at putting Steve on the couch was on Friday, in a column that dealt with Jobs’ recently announced intention to police apps for violations of Apple’s new (and undisclosed) rules against porn. I suggested that Jobs was overreaching—and, maybe too, a little messianic and off his nut. (I did not know then that his cop mentality would soon enough involve actual police action.)
> 
> The stated reason for the rejection of my free app is that Apple requires "sufficient amounts of content to appeal to a broad audience." Putting aside the fact that this pretty much makes specialty content ineligible for iPhone or iPad apps, it’s also a pretty fudgy standard. For instance, I get a bigger readership for my online columns than I do for my Vanity Fair columns—so Vanity Fair shouldn’t make the cut?


Some may feel that these constant arbitrary rejections aren't worth discussing, but it's garnering a _lot_ of press now.


> Where we are is that Apple is now creating a distribution system for books and periodicals—in a sense, no different from a newsstand or bookstore—which it proposes to regulate as it sees fit, without explanation, recourse, or standards.
> 
> http://www.newser.com/off-the-grid/...o-read-this-or-will-break-down-your-door.html


----------



## Sunray (Apr 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Another weird app rejection - this time for a writer for Vanity Fair:
> 
> Some may feel that these constant arbitrary rejections aren't worth discussing, but it's garnering a _lot_ of press now.



I'm fairly sure that it amounts to a 1st amendment violation both freedom of speech and freedom of the press.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_the_United_States

Nobody seems to want to take them to court over it.


----------



## g force (Apr 28, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ime people generally don't care about changing phones but are loath to change networks. The amount of people that used to ask when the iPhone is coming out on other networks because they didn't want to change (even though moving your number barely takes more than 48 hours) was crazy.



That and 02 are shite and always will be shite


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 28, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I'm fairly sure that it amounts to a 1st amendment violation both freedom of speech and freedom of the press.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_the_press_in_the_United_States
> 
> Nobody seems to want to take them to court over it.



No it doesn't. Unless Apple has now become the US Congress.


----------



## editor (Apr 28, 2010)

Is there a decent French phrase book for the iPhone? I've spent ages trawling through the app store and most of them have shockingly bad reviews. How the fuck some of them got approved is anyone's guess.

I don't need audio files - just a simple, easy to use phrasebook. I don't mind paying a couple of quid, but if it's over a fiver I may as well buy a proper book.

Any tried'n'trusted suggestions?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 28, 2010)

Now, I've had no problems whatsoever with O2, coverage has been fine.

It's rubbish here at my desk (only Edge), but I've got a big old connection here.

Otherwise, it's mostly 3G, and I've _never_ been out of network range once in two years, including in remote rural Devon.

I've not particular attachment to any network, but I see no reason to move. Especially as Vodafone won't match what I'm getting and I'll never be an Orange customer again.


----------



## grit (Apr 28, 2010)

March saw Android overtake iPhone in Admobs stats, interesting 

http://techcrunch.com/2010/04/27/admob-android-passes-iphone-web-traffic-in-u-s/


----------



## stupid dogbot (Apr 28, 2010)




----------



## Gromit (Apr 28, 2010)

editor said:


> Is there a decent French phrase book for the iPhone? I've spent ages trawling through the app store and most of them have shockingly bad reviews. How the fuck some of them got approved is anyone's guess.
> 
> I don't need audio files - just a simple, easy to use phrasebook. I don't mind paying a couple of quid, but if it's over a fiver I may as well buy a proper book.
> 
> Any tried'n'trusted suggestions?


 
Be careful that all the phrases are part of the download rather than the ap requiring a web connection to access a database. I got caught that way with my Bulgarian ap.

I tended to use the Lastminute ones. They aren't comprehensive but better than nothing.


----------



## ooo (Apr 29, 2010)

Have you guys seen this?







http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/27/horus-coffee-table-ipod-dock-will-make-friends-question-your-san/

Love the headline 

*Horus coffee table/iPod dock will make friends question your sanity*


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 29, 2010)

Anyone posted this yet? Steve Jobs gives his thoughts on Flash:

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/


----------



## Crispy (Apr 29, 2010)

Broadly agree with him - Flash should be obsolete. But the transition will be painful.


----------



## editor (Apr 29, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Anyone posted this yet? Steve Jobs gives his thoughts on Flash:
> 
> http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/


Now, _that's_ what I call hyporcrisy!




			
				Steve Jobs said:
			
		

> Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary. They are only available  from Adobe, and Adobe has sole authority as to their future enhancement,  pricing, etc. While Adobe’s Flash products are widely available, this  does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe  and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a  closed system.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 29, 2010)

ed, to be fair, he does make mention of Apple's proprietary stuff, and compares it to what he's talking about with Flash. Of course he's not going to slag himself off in his own piece, but neither does he completely ignore it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Apr 29, 2010)

It's not hypocrisy: he then immediately says Apple has closed technology. It's counter to Adobe's bizarre PR that Flash is somehow some sort of "open system" and if you support open standards you must support it.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 29, 2010)

The quote in full:



> Adobe’s Flash products are 100% proprietary. They are only available from Adobe, and Adobe has sole authority as to their future enhancement, pricing, etc. While Adobe’s Flash products are widely available, this does not mean they are open, since they are controlled entirely by Adobe and available only from Adobe. By almost any definition, Flash is a closed system.
> 
> Apple has many proprietary products too. Though the operating system for the iPhone, iPod and iPad is proprietary, we strongly believe that all standards pertaining to the web should be open. Rather than use Flash, Apple has adopted HTML5, CSS and JavaScript – all open standards. Apple’s mobile devices all ship with high performance, low power implementations of these open standards. HTML5, the new web standard that has been adopted by Apple, Google and many others, lets web developers create advanced graphics, typography, animations and transitions without relying on third party browser plug-ins (like Flash). HTML5 is completely open and controlled by a standards committee, of which Apple is a member.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 29, 2010)

To support his claim, Another World JS plays on my iPhone.  Its a bit slow mind and no key support, but it does look perfectly fine.


----------



## editor (Apr 29, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's not hypocrisy: he then immediately says Apple has closed technology. It's counter to Adobe's bizarre PR that Flash is somehow some sort of "open system" and if you support open standards you must support it.


He's _every bit as bad _as the company he seeks to criticise, so that makes him a hypocrite in my book.

Here's an interesting user comment from Engadget:



> Actually Flash is most definitely an open format. In fact, here are the  specifications themselves:
> 
> http://www.adobe.com/devnet/swf/
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Apr 30, 2010)

Open can mean many different things. Adobe have opened up various aspects of flash in recent years, but it still falls short of being able to call flash an open standard - 1 company controls the spec, not a standards body.

Jobs does not talk about h.264 in the section where he is discussing open stuff, he talks about in a later section to try to refute Adobes '75% of web video is flash' argument, and also tries to make h.264 hardware decoding an issue. h.264 is partially open, in that it isnt one company with complete control over the spec, and there are plenty of opensource examples of how to use it. Where it isnt open is that its encumbered by patents and certain uses of it require a fee to be paid. 

Most companies that try to play the open card are on shaky ground from time to time. In my book Apple score very highly when it comes to promoting open web standards, obviously they do not score at all well when it comes to how open their mobile hardware/OS platforms are.


----------



## GoneCoastal (May 3, 2010)

Is anyone else using the latest version of tapatalk ? It seems to have removed the ability to remove thread titles before replying to a post again... anyone else got this ?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 3, 2010)

GoneCoastal said:
			
		

> Is anyone else using the latest version of tapatalk ? It seems to have removed the ability to remove thread titles before replying to a post again... anyone else got this ?



Eh?


----------



## editor (May 5, 2010)

Good piece on Engadget about h.264 licensing. It's quite complicated, but well worth a read.

http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/04/know-your-rights-h-264-patent-licensing-and-you/?s=t5


----------



## elbows (May 5, 2010)

editor said:


> Good piece on Engadget about h.264 licensing. It's quite complicated, but well worth a read.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/04/know-your-rights-h-264-patent-licensing-and-you/?s=t5



Hooray, a sensible article about H.264. As it points out the discussion on the net has gotten very silly recently, especially since Microsoft said that H.264 is the only HTML5 video format that IE9 will support, at least initially.


----------



## grit (May 5, 2010)

editor said:


> He's _every bit as bad _as the company he seeks to criticise, so that makes him a hypocrite in my book.
> 
> Here's an interesting user comment from Engadget:



Jobs didnt claim that H.264 is open.


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2010)

If flash is so open, why aren't there any 3rd party players for it?


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 5, 2010)

Adobe = good
Apple = bad

Simples.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2010)

LOL!


> Cupidtino: Dating Site for Apple Fanboys and Fangirls
> 
> We’re not sure if this is a joke or not, but Cupidtino is an upcoming dating site for fans of Apple products.
> 
> The site is currently in (closed) beta, but it has an active Twitter account which is (mostly) trying to convince people that the project is for real. From the site: “Diehard Mac & Apple fans often have a lot in common – personalities, creative professions, a similar sense of style and aesthetics, taste, and of course a love for technology. We believe these are enough reasons for two people to meet and fall in love, and so we created the first Mac-inspired dating site to help you find other Machearts around you.”



Cupidtino should launch in June 2010, and it’ll be (surprise) exclusively on Apple platforms, with some location-based social apps for the iPhone and iPad in the works. We’ll believe it when we see it.

http://mashable.com/2010/05/05/cupidtino/


----------



## Kanda (May 5, 2010)

There's a dating site for Furrys out there too.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 5, 2010)

editor said:


> LOL!
> 
> 
> Cupidtino should launch in June 2010, and it’ll be (surprise) exclusively on Apple platforms, with some location-based social apps for the iPhone and iPad in the works. We’ll believe it when we see it.
> ...



Wow, that's the one for me.

Apple girls, look out!


----------



## teqniq (May 5, 2010)

The iPhone gets flash whether Steve Jobs likes it or not:- 

Android on the iPhone

Probably for the seriously geeky and not for the faint-hearted I would imagine....


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 5, 2010)

Tread very, very carefully:



> EDIT: Apparently on some iPhones, the installation of openiboot appears to be failing (THIS MEANS IT WON'T BOOT UP AGAIN).


----------



## Sunray (May 5, 2010)

I don't know about people here, but the one computer I want to have near 100% reliability is my phone.  The uptime on my iPhone is amazing given how sophisticated and new it is. I must have reset it less than 10 times in two years and that was not because it had stopped working but to get CoPilot to run.

Quite why you would want to make it unstable is beyond me.


----------



## Gromit (May 5, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I don't know about people here, but the one computer I want to have near 100% reliability is my phone.


 
Its the one that runs my life support machine for me.


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 5, 2010)

My iPhone died. Tsk. Won't charge, but can't see any bent pins. Have to go to the fucking wank bar.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> My iPhone died. Tsk. Won't charge, but can't see any bent pins. Have to go to the fucking wank bar.


You have my sympathy.

Get ready to high-five! Or punch.


----------



## Crispy (May 5, 2010)

The one time I've seen the genius bar at work, there was no smugness, high fiving or that other nonsense, just excellent and polite service and the problem solved in less than 10 minutes. don't know what you guys have an issue with?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> The one time I've seen the genius bar at work, there was no smugness, high fiving or that other nonsense, just excellent and polite service and the problem solved in less than 10 minutes. don't know what you guys have an issue with?



The name for starters, it just shouts "wankers"


----------



## Lazy Llama (May 5, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> My iPhone died. Tsk. Won't charge, but can't see any bent pins. Have to go to the fucking wank bar.


Mine's gone like that a couple of times. 
Rebooted the machine I was charging it from and it started charging, no idea why.

Might be worth a go, though you may have already tried different charging mechanisms.

As for the Genius Bar, Microsoft have a Guru Bar in their shops which proves that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, Best Buy have a Geek Squad (I hear they have that over here now at the Lakeside branch), and PC World have "The Tech Guys". All a bit wanky if you ask me.


----------



## grit (May 5, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> My iPhone died. Tsk. Won't charge, but can't see any bent pins. Have to go to the fucking wank bar.



Hold down the power button for 30 seconds to a minute and try to charge it again.


----------



## paolo (May 5, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> Mine's gone like that a couple of times.
> Rebooted the machine I was charging it from and it started charging, no idea why.
> 
> Might be worth a go, though you may have already tried different charging mechanisms.
> ...



Wanky branding definitely.

But the idea that you can go and speak to someone who actually knows what they're talking about is great. A couple of years ago, you'd get laughed out of a shop if you went back asking for help.


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 5, 2010)

Thanks for the suggestions, gents, but I've already tried both after Googling the issue. No joy.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> As for the Genius Bar, Microsoft have a Guru Bar in their shops which proves that imitation is the sincerest form of flatter...


What Microsoft shops? I've never seen one.

Mind you, that's a wanky name too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2010)

Couldn't care a less what they call it, what matters is the standard of customer service. Ime Apple's is excellent.


----------



## Sunray (May 5, 2010)

Been brilliant.  Done everything I've ever asked without a peep. 

Might be a wanky name, but they don't staff it with people left over from PC World so no matter what you may think, its truly great service. If you own any other phone on the market where could you get your very slightly faulty screen replaced in 15 minutes, because that's what they did to mine.


----------



## Lazy Llama (May 5, 2010)

editor said:


> What Microsoft shops? I've never seen one.
> 
> Mind you, that's a wanky name too.


Microsoft have launched Apple-Store-alike shops in the States, using ex-Apple Store staff in some cases.

Guru Meditation anyone?


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 5, 2010)

Ah, I'm not questioning the service. Just the name. And the shop. And the brand.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> Microsoft have launched Apple-Store-alike shops in the States, using ex-Apple Store staff in some cases.


But that's only in the US where all that fucking bullshit shit goes down a treat.


----------



## Lazy Llama (May 5, 2010)

editor said:


> But that's only in the US where all that fucking bullshit shit goes down a treat.


Hadn't you heard? We're all wannabee-Merkins whether we like it or not....
Globalisation is really Americanisation.

They'll be here before you can say "Have A Nice Day!"

Oh for the days when we had a British computer industry...

Anyway, someone should drag us back on topic


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:
			
		

> Ah, I'm not questioning the service. Just the name. And the shop. And the brand.



Who cares, really? I couldn't give a damn if they called it the Uber Genius Tech Bastards! As long as the service is good...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 5, 2010)

It's (an attempt) to appeal to non-techies, people who might say "oh I don't understand this at all, I need some computer genius to sort it all out" - and I've heard that one a few times. So: here you go people, some computer geniuses who will sort it all out.

They're generally pretty good IME I have to say, and far more cheerful than I would be doing that sort of job. I can honestly say that the people I've talked to working in Apple Stores seem to actually like what they're doing in an unforced way, even if it's nearly 10pm and they're fixing people's iPhones. Also they do a lot of work they don't have to. Even if something is out of warranty, if it's something they can do in the shop they'll often just fix it anyway and not charge you.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2010)

I've no doubt that Apple staff are far more motivated, knowledgeable and interested than your average tech shop droog, but it's fair enough if people aren't comfortable with the uber-American, all-whoopin' high-fiving culture that accompanies it. I like their products, mind.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:
			
		

> It's (an attempt) to appeal to non-techies, people who might say "oh I don't understand this at all, I need some computer genius to sort it all out" - and I've heard that one a few times. So: here you go people, some computer geniuses who will sort it all out.
> 
> They're generally pretty good IME I have to say, and far more cheerful than I would be doing that sort of job. I can honestly say that the people I've talked to working in Apple Stores seem to actually like what they're doing in an unforced way, even if it's nearly 10pm and they're fixing people's iPhones. Also they do a lot of work they don't have to. Even if something is out of warranty, if it's something they can do in the shop they'll often just fix it anyway and not charge you.



Very true, they're great ime.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 5, 2010)

editor said:


> I've no doubt that Apple staff are far more motivated, knowledgeable and interested than your average tech shop droog, but it's fair enough if people aren't comfortable with the uber-American, all-whoopin' high-fiving culture that accompanies it. I like their products, mind.



I don't think it really does _here_ - though I have to say it's quite jarring for a Brit to meet people in a chain retail establishment who actually seem keen on their job. It's very suspicious, particularly when they're not even on commission.


----------



## paolo (May 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I don't think it really does _here_ - though I have to say it's quite jarring for a Brit to meet people in a chain retail establishment who actually seem keen on their job. It's very suspicious, particularly when they're not even on commission.



Yeah they do seem to be enjoying what they're doing, and I haven't had that sense of being bullshitted, which I expect from British tech stores.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I don't think it really does _here_ - though I have to say it's quite jarring for a Brit to meet people in a chain retail establishment who actually seem keen on their job. It's very suspicious, particularly when they're not even on commission.


Oh I dunno. Shops selling expensive gear often have more welcoming staff that ones selling cheaper stuff.


----------



## grit (May 6, 2010)

.


----------



## Pie 1 (May 6, 2010)

editor said:


> Oh I dunno. Shops selling expensive gear often have more welcoming staff that ones selling cheaper stuff.



You've never been shopping in Paris then?


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (May 6, 2010)

WTF I am constantly getting a pop-up on my iPhone asking me to login to iTunes. Is anyone else getting or know how to stop it? It's really annoying, I'm nowhere near iTunes when it happens, it pops up when I'm on the web, turn my phone on etc, etc. Grrr!


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 6, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Who cares, really? I couldn't give a damn if they called it the Uber Genius Tech Bastards! As long as the service is good...



Me. I feel violated going into Apple shops.


----------



## Crispy (May 6, 2010)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> WTF I am constantly getting a pop-up on my iPhone asking me to login to iTunes. Is anyone else getting or know how to stop it? It's really annoying, I'm nowhere near iTunes when it happens, it pops up when I'm on the web, turn my phone on etc, etc. Grrr!


It'll be something to do with an app. Can't you just sign in, that should make it go away...


----------



## Kanda (May 6, 2010)

lol...


----------



## editor (May 6, 2010)

elbows said:


> Well Im not claiming the technology has a bright future but you were the one who claimed that Clearwire have said its dead.






It's definitely not dead.


> ...is WiMAX available in my city? Well, buried inside the Clearwire financials is mention of the 19 additional cities scheduled for WiMAXing this summer, joining the 32 markets (pictured above) and 41 million people already served by its 4G network offering 3Mbps to 6Mbps average downloads with an occasional 10Mbps peak....



http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/06/clearwire-wimax-to-cover-120-million-prospective-htc-evo-4g-owne/


----------



## Sunray (May 6, 2010)

Yeah it is.  When they start rolling out LTE over the next few years it will become a footnote in the higher bit rate mobile internet.  Even Clearwire have said as much if you read between the lines.


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (May 8, 2010)

Crispy said:
			
		

> It'll be something to do with an app. Can't you just sign in, that should make it go away...



Tried that but still keeps doing it, not as often but still really annoying


----------



## editor (May 9, 2010)

When my weirdo stalker was bombarding me with calls (with a blocked caller ID), I thought I'd be able to just block all such calls off my iPhone, but it seems it's not possible because of Apple's rules. 

Should anyone find themselves in a similarly unfortunate situation, the only solution is to jailbreak your phone and install an app like Blacklist. In the end my nutjob's calls stopped, buy anyone looking to jailbreak their phone may find this guide useful:

http://gizmodo.com/5533921/how-to-jailbreak-any-iphone-ipod-touch-or-ipad


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 10, 2010)

Managed to fix mine without a trip to the genius bar - woohoo! Put it into restore mode, then restored. Didn't work when I tried last week, but seems to have done the trick this time. Had to restore though, of course, so goodbye jailbreak.


----------



## grit (May 11, 2010)

Looks like Apple are going to have some help from Android in the anti trust case.

http://mobile.venturebeat.com/2010/...phone-ranked-second-in-u-s-smartphone-market/


----------



## Biglittlefish (May 11, 2010)

I am about to finally put my old Nokia 1100 to rest(apart from a resurrection for glasto-the battery life is insane) and become an izomdie.

Newbie question - I am buying a phone on ebay then putting it on a tesco pay as you go contract. If the phone is locked to another network, will I have any hassle unlocking it?


----------



## grit (May 11, 2010)

Biglittlefish said:


> Newbie question - I am buying a phone on ebay then putting it on a tesco pay as you go contract. If the phone is locked to another network, will I have any hassle unlocking it?



Depends what phone it is.


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 11, 2010)

Right - all back up and running.

I get tired of gadgets very easily, but this has renewed my love for the iPhone. When jailbroken it is a very, very nice piece of kit.

Loving my new theme, too. Suave it's called. Snazzy.

Oh, and Football Manager is excellent!


----------



## Biglittlefish (May 11, 2010)

grit said:


> Depends what phone it is.



Eh? 3gs 16g


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 11, 2010)

I've also put a new theme onto mine with this new jailbreak, a snow leopard one. It's gorgeous. 

QuickDo has solved all of my home button woes, and I've even managed to do a restore point this time, using aptBackup!


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 11, 2010)

Biglittlefish said:


> Eh? 3gs 16g



Depends what version of the software n' all. The latest, 3.1.3, isn't so easy to unlock - especially with newer software.


----------



## Biglittlefish (May 11, 2010)

Ahh, sounds complicated.


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 11, 2010)

Biglittlefish said:


> Ahh, sounds complicated.



Not necessarily.

See the editors link a few posts ago on this thread. Could be quite simple!


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 11, 2010)

Jailbreaking and network unlocking aren't the same thing, mind.

You can use Pwnage for that, but from what I've heard, it doesn't always work and isn't the most stable thing in the world.


----------



## editor (May 11, 2010)

I'm enjoying playing with as Palm Pre again as it shows the strengths and weaknesses of the iPhone. For an all round smooth user experience the iPhone really is superb, but the Pre addresses so many of its annoying flaws. The notification system is nothing short of brilliant, as is the multi tasking card system, but the real strength of the iPhone lies in its apps, and I'm missing many of them already on the Pre.

I certainly don't think I could back to the Pre now, but then I'm not really judging like with like here.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 11, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> I certainly don't think I could back to the Pre now, but then I'm not really judging like with like here.



Wow.


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 11, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm enjoying playing with as Palm Pre again as it shows the strengths and weaknesses of the iPhone. For an all round smooth user experience the iPhone really is superb, but the Pre addresses so many of its annoying flaws. The notification system is nothing short of brilliant, as is the multi tasking card system, but the real strength of the iPhone lies in its apps, and I'm missing many of them already on the Pre.
> 
> I certainly don't think I could back to the Pre now, but then I'm not really judging like with like here.



If you jailbreak and get iRealSMS, backgrounder, and kirikadae (sp?) then you've got a nearly as good as the Pre solution to most of those issues. Being able to read the Guardian app whilst listening to last.fm is very gratifying. As is replying to texts when in an app.


----------



## editor (May 12, 2010)

Another iPhone 4G leak: http://www.wirefresh.com/and-another-apple-iphone-4g-leaks-out-video-and-pics/


----------



## g force (May 12, 2010)

Still doesn't make me want one....assuming the control freaks at Apple are actually 'leaving' these to be found


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 12, 2010)

Like a sort of marketing campaign to keep up public interest, you mean??


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 12, 2010)

I prefer the looks of the new one I have to say. I've never really got on with the rounded back of the 3GS; apart from looks it also has a tendency to slip out of pockets.


----------



## Sunray (May 12, 2010)

I'm liking the new look, I agree that it does look very Sony. Given that I expect a lot of Sony and Apple engineers are on sabbaticals from the other company its not surprising.  Long history of cooperation there. 

How it looks is pretty minor to what it offers that is new.  The Apple CPU is a great advance for me as its so much faster.


----------



## hendo (May 12, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I prefer the looks of the new one I have to say. I've never really got on with the rounded back of the 3GS; apart from looks it also has a tendency to slip out of pockets.



The faster chip, together with the promised multi tasking and increase in storage make me think this is probably the phone for me come the Autumn.


----------



## editor (May 12, 2010)

I hope they nick Palm's gesture system. Coming back to the iPhone after a day with the Pre really reminds you how incredibly useful and intuitive it it.

(*has to stop stroking the iPhone's plastic bezel to go back a page)


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 12, 2010)

hendo said:


> The faster chip, together with the promised multi tasking and increase in storage make me think this is probably the phone for me come the Autumn.



It'll need more than that to lure me back from my envious glances at the HTC Android line-up.


----------



## hendo (May 12, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> It'll need more than that to lure me back from my envious glances at the HTC Android line-up.



One problem is that the iphone now has docks all over the place, at work, on my alarm clock/radio etc. Means switching to HTC is a bigger step than just a new phone.


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 12, 2010)

hendo said:


> One problem is that the iphone now has docks all over the place, at work, on my alarm clock/radio etc. Means switching to HTC is a bigger step than just a new phone.



Yeah, their proprietary connectors have made them serious dollars.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 12, 2010)

I really like new look iPhone, couldn't agree more with the Ed above about nicking the Pre notification system. The iPhone is pretty crap at that right now...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 12, 2010)

This must be hitting iPhone sales already a bit, I would have thought - though how much more than the usual "wait until June", I don't know.


----------



## maldwyn (May 12, 2010)

There seems to be a strong migration towards the other phone, but I'm tempted to wait to see what g4 has to offer. My home hardware is Apple, plus ease of use is a big plus for me, I can't see the appeal of swiping through 7 home screens


----------



## Piers Gibbon (May 12, 2010)

I'm also suffering from iPhone iNertia and am unlikely now to migrate away from the iPhone anytime soon, certainly looks like I'll be upgrading to the new 4 iphone in June or whenever it comes out from my current jailbroken original iphone

A request - I'd like to have a "profile" on the iphone that means "I'm abroad and I pay my own data bill, stop leaking my money - ask me every time before up/downloading anything"

It was so easy on the old school unconnected Palm Treo..where I had the option to "only download the subject of emails"

On the iphone it seems really difficult to just dive online and collect just the data I want ie the headers of my emails

Each time I'm getting stuck in a hell loop of activating/deactivating email accounts and notifications and synching

Maybe I'm doing it worng


----------



## Piers Gibbon (May 12, 2010)

I'm definitely doing it worng


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 12, 2010)

You can turn off roaming in Settings somewhere I think.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (May 12, 2010)

yeah but it's not just that setting I think...maybe I'm wrong..or maybe what I'm saying is that I want to be able to use the online abilities of my iphone but in a strictly limited fashion. Whereas if I turn roaming back on for a quick email check...it seems to gives it permission to throw money away in a whole load of other ways..

..I just wish there was a single setting that put the whole thing on a data diet..but that allows me to check my email accounts..and allows me to go on safari TEXT ONLY for a quick look-up or whatever...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 12, 2010)

Not that I know of.

Mind you, the basic problem there is the absurd prices that you get charged for data roaming. Utterly ridiculous.


----------



## Sunray (May 13, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> yeah but it's not just that setting I think...maybe I'm wrong..or maybe what I'm saying is that I want to be able to use the online abilities of my iphone but in a strictly limited fashion. Whereas if I turn roaming back on for a quick email check...it seems to gives it permission to throw money away in a whole load of other ways..
> 
> ..I just wish there was a single setting that put the whole thing on a data diet..but that allows me to check my email accounts..and allows me to go on safari TEXT ONLY for a quick look-up or whatever...



Yeah Safari could do with a bit of work and some new options.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2010)

The next Android OS comes with full Flash support and USB tethering, so you can share your data connection with your laptop. That's going to tempt a few business users away from their iPhones, I reckon.


----------



## Gromit (May 13, 2010)

editor said:


> The next Android OS comes with full Flash support and USB tethering, so you can share your data connection with your laptop. That's going to tempt a few business users away from their iPhones, I reckon.



When are they going to hurry up and release it though?

The gossip sites keep given dates that keep passing.


----------



## Lazy Llama (May 13, 2010)

editor said:


> The next Android OS comes with full Flash support and USB tethering, so you can share your data connection with your laptop. That's going to tempt a few business users away from their iPhones, I reckon.


I can't see many business users being tempted by Flash support, and their iPhones already have USB (and Bluetooth) tethering.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 13, 2010)

But it's flash! FLASH!!!


----------



## editor (May 13, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> I can't see many business users being tempted by Flash support, and their iPhones already have USB (and Bluetooth) tethering.


I suspect most business users would _love_ to have Flash support seeing as loads of online business data is presented in that format - I could then read the stats for my site, for example.

I've no idea if the carriers will be able to block Android tethering, but the price of iPhone tethering is almost comically high in the UK (3GB for £14.68 per month, 10GB for £29.36).


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 13, 2010)

I suspect most people couldn't give a toss about flash.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> I suspect most people couldn't give a toss about flash.


Yeah, because it's not even slightly popular on the web is it?


----------



## g force (May 13, 2010)

Many 'business' users if anything are moving from RIM to HTC - iPhones are simply too expensive to support across a company of more than say 15 mobile users.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2010)

g force said:


> Many 'business' users if anything are moving from RIM to HTC - iPhones are simply too expensive to support across a company of more than say 15 mobile users.


Actually, there's been a huge take up of iPhones in the business sector.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 13, 2010)

editor said:


> Yeah, because it's not even slightly popular on the web is it?



Quick straw poll of iphone users (handset of choice for work phones in this office) suggests that there's not much interest in Flash.

In fact you're the only person I've ever heard go on (and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on ) about it.

So take your  and have a  in return, Mr SneeryWhinge.


----------



## Lazy Llama (May 13, 2010)

editor said:


> I've no idea if the carriers will be able to block Android tethering, but the price of iPhone tethering is almost comically high in the UK (3GB for £14.68 per month, 10GB for £29.36).


If the telcos can block it from the iPhone, I'd have thought they can block it from Android. For example, they block it on the Pre, if you don't have the bolt-on apparently.

The price is the same as O2's normal Mobile Broadband dongle pricing, give or take a few pennies. Mobile broadband in the UK is still silly money, as usual with anything that the telcos have control of.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Quick straw poll of iphone users (handset of choice for work phones in this office) suggests that there's not much interest in Flash.
> 
> In fact you're the only person I've ever heard go on (and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on ) about it.
> 
> So take your  and have a  in return, Mr SneeryWhinge.


Pick up your toys and stop acting so childishly. 

I'm just stating the facts and that is that Flash is _hugely_ popular on the web both as a means as delivering content and for games. That doesn't make me a fan of the technology, but the fact remains that it's used in more than 85 per cent of websites (including the BBC).

As for the iPhone users supposedly not wanting Flash, that statement would appear to become unstuck by the fact that 7 million iPhone users have tried to download Flash.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=28619


----------



## tarannau (May 13, 2010)

That's not that many really tbf. They sell more phones than that every quarter, and if I had a penny for every time you notice a flash link or reminder through general browsing. It's probably not the most helpful metric in isolation


----------



## editor (May 13, 2010)

tarannau said:


> That's not that many really tbf. They sell more phones than that every quarter, and if I had a penny for every time you notice a flash link or reminder through general browsing. It's probably not the most helpful metric in isolation


If iPhone users were offered a Flash plug in right now, how many do you think would download it? 

None (according to stupid dogbot's 'poll') or millions of users keen to access the full web content and the thousands of free games on their handset?


----------



## grit (May 13, 2010)

editor said:


> If iPhone users were offered a Flash plug in right now, how many do you think would download it?



I think the vast majority wouldn't even understand what it was.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 13, 2010)

editor said:


> Pick up your toys and stop acting so childishly.



Yeah, cos you come across as SO grown up, huh?   

Get. Fucked.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2010)

grit said:


> I think the vast majority wouldn't even understand what it was.


You think the 'vast majority' of iPhone users don't know what Flash is?

Seeing as the Opera Mini browser for the iPhone was downloaded _one million times in one day_ when it was launched, I'm pretty sure some iPhone users just might be able to work it out, you know.


----------



## elbows (May 13, 2010)

The people who have iphones at work dont actually browse the web all that much with them, they mostly use apps.

I would not deny that flash would be quite attractive to many people right now, although if this argument continues for a couple of years then I think it will become much less of a factor by the time the arguing is done, quite a lot of sites and services will be moving away from flash in the next 12-18 months.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 13, 2010)

editor said:


> The next Android OS comes with...USB tethering



I think my Desire already has this...


----------



## grit (May 13, 2010)

editor said:


> You think the 'vast majority' of iPhone users don't know what Flash is?
> 
> Seeing as the Opera Mini browser for the iPhone was downloaded _one million times in one day_ when it was launched, I'm pretty sure some iPhone users just might be able to work it out, you know.



I think the vast majority of them dont care. Sometimes we forget our little geek bubble doesn't represent the general consumer ya know?

To put it in perspective about a month ago Opera was pegged at about 1.02 million downloads, now lets contrast that with the estimated amount if iPhones in the wild as just over 50 million. 

Doesnt seem like such a big success does it? Thats because the average person on the street doesnt even know what the fuck a browser is (I think the daily show did a skit on this).

I'm not saying there are not a decent amount of iPhone users out there that really want flash, they are just not the majority.


----------



## g force (May 13, 2010)

editor said:


> Actually, there's been a huge take up of iPhones in the business sector.



Do you have any stats? When you have to pay a min of £50 per handset (as offered to our firm) vs free Blackberry or HTC most business will make the obvious choice esp when the majority of users need push email.

Plenty of business people use iPhones, yes. Many get their work email sent to their iPhone. But businesses buying iphones for their staff rather than RIM or HTC? I seriously doubt that.


----------



## elbows (May 13, 2010)

The only reason our business didnt switch to iphone is that we had not long got other handsets from the network supplier and they wanted too much money to switch. In the meantime a few managers got bored of waiting and got iphones for themselves at some personal cost.

The iphone does do push email now you know.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2010)

grit said:


> I think the vast majority of them dont care. Sometimes we forget our little geek bubble doesn't represent the general consumer ya know?


Actually, the vast majority of them use massively popular websites like Facebook and MySpace that are veritably stuffed to the gills with Flash-powered players, widgets and games.

As a promoter I can't even listen to a band's songs on my iPhone and that's fucking annoying.


----------



## elbows (May 13, 2010)

I think the missing flash annoyance reality sits somewhere in between these 2 extremes.

For example its possible to overstate how painful facebook is without flash, its just fine on the iphone for a lot of usage scenarios, but to suggest that most people dont care at all about flash being missing is not likely true either.


----------



## tarannau (May 13, 2010)

Loads of businesses buying the iphone ime, often driven by significant numbers employees buying their own iphones and demand building so much that even the IT bods give in.

From my company's point of view - information provision to the financial markets - the iphone versions of the (previously RIM only) software are increasingly remarkably rapidly as a proportion of subs.


----------



## grit (May 13, 2010)

editor said:


> Actually, the vast majority of them use massively popular websites like Facebook and MySpace that are veritably stuffed to the gills with Flash-powered players, widgets and games.



Exactly and even so it accounts for something like 50% of mobile traffic, even if the iPhone did have flash those games would not be playable. Now if we had examples of mobile optimised flash sites we could be talking a different story, but we dont, so we're not.

Its a chicken and egg situation no cares because they have not seen it and it cant gain traction without some compelling cases to point to. Therefore its not in the average users mind. 

If android gets a good implementation and really cool stuff is done with it the tide may change.


----------



## grit (May 13, 2010)

tarannau said:


> demand building so much that even the IT bods give in.



Give in??? WTF 

Their your fucking users, you decide what they can and cant do, thats madness.


----------



## tarannau (May 13, 2010)

Put it this way, if you have an obstructive IT team, trained predominantly through the Microsoft Accredited Blinkered school of using Microsoft products, coupled with a historical reliance on RIM, then IT teams aren't often that helpful towards things Apple. You might cut the design teams some slack, but...

However, if your CEO and a lot of the senior management team are iphone converts, your biggest clients are increasingly demanding iphone apps and iphone software sales are rising markedly higher than the others, then IT reluctance to entertain another platform tends to waver.


----------



## elbows (May 13, 2010)

II departments should listen to their users. Its a balancing act, unfortunately one I have not been able to pull off often in my role due to silly management.


----------



## grit (May 13, 2010)

tarannau said:


> However, if your CEO and a lot of the senior management team are iphone converts, your biggest clients are increasingly demanding iphone apps and iphone software sales are rising markedly higher than the others, then IT reluctance to entertain another platform tends to waver.



Ah yes thats a different story!

I just had visions of some sales droid demanding their iPhone is setup on the corporate network to sync with outlook.


----------



## Sunray (May 13, 2010)

editor said:


> If iPhone users were offered a Flash plug in right now, how many do you think would download it?
> 
> None (according to stupid dogbot's 'poll') or millions of users keen to access the full web content and the thousands of free games on their handset?



Everyone would consider it, and as Safari is so basic on the iPhone I'd pass.

If I could have it configured to run on more fine grained settings like I can on a proper browser, then I'd consider it.


----------



## tarannau (May 13, 2010)

That is essentially what's happening tbh. But it's a lot more than one 'sales droid,' including some far more senior droids who pushed the case. 

Too many IT departments are far too obstructive and complacent tbh, using terms like 'droid' to denote users. A little caution is of course understandable, but often it's about an unwillingness to look beyond the current MS certified setups imo


----------



## grit (May 13, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Too many IT departments are far too obstructive and complacent tbh, using terms like 'droid' to denote users. A little caution is of course understandable, but often it's about an unwillingness to look beyond the current MS certified setups imo



Its not that simple, ultimately IT are carrying out managements instructions on hot the infrastructure is supposed to be used. In general a valid business case and capex (if required) needs to be submitted for something to be considered. If it has genuine benefits to the business and the money is there it will be approved, if not, it wont.

Users shouldn't expect a say on how the services are provided.


----------



## tarannau (May 13, 2010)

Of course they should, and I say that as an IT bod atm (albeit Deployment side)

Business cases aren't black and white, as you well know, and too many IT departments have historically all too often lacked the expertise, knowledge and willingness to build accurate cost and TCO projections to entertain alternatives to their existing setups.

Users - and particularly the SMT here - have driven wider iphone adoption here. I suspect the IT would have dragged their feet far more if they weren't leaned on quite significantly


----------



## Badgers (May 14, 2010)

I use mine for work and personal. All I need is email really although I do keep some documents on it. If I had to have a seperate business phone I would probably get a Blackberry.


----------



## editor (May 14, 2010)

The lack of an integrated inbox on the iPhone drives me mad, so roll on OS v4. I like Blackberries too, but doubt if I'll ever get one.


----------



## Kanda (May 14, 2010)

elbows said:


> II departments should listen to their users. Its a balancing act, unfortunately one I have not been able to pull off often in my role due to silly management.



This is a bit of an old school approach. IT depts should listen to the needs of the business and see how they can adapt or improve their services in accordance with those needs. Not listening to users??? Bonkers these days.


----------



## editor (May 14, 2010)

Good piece about the hypocrisy of both Apple and Adobe as they try to 'out-open' each other:



> One can’t help but laugh that two of the most historically closed companies in technology are now in a proverbial pissing match over which company has embraced openness more.
> 
> People that know me know that I’m in favor of calling a spade a spade, so let me be clear: Apple and Adobe’s use of terms like “open market,” “freedom,” and “choice” are completely dishonest and mendacious. Claiming openness as a virtue in this debate is disingenuous on the part of both companies, and arguments about the technologies in question can stand on their own without “open” muddying the waters.
> 
> ...


http://mashable.com/2010/05/13/adobe-apple-open/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 14, 2010)

editor said:
			
		

> The lack of an integrated inbox on the iPhone drives me mad, so roll on OS v4. I like Blackberries too, but doubt if I'll ever get one.



Too true that and only being able to have one exchange account...blasted annoying.


----------



## elbows (May 14, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Too true that and only being able to have one exchange account...blasted annoying.



I think thats fixed in OS 4 too.


----------



## grit (May 14, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Not listening to users??? Bonkers these days.



No its their requests that are bonkers..


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 14, 2010)

elbows said:


> I think thats fixed in OS 4 too.



It is, cannot wait for 4.0...


----------



## paolo (May 16, 2010)

One thing I find completely infuriating is not being able to search my mail in the same way as I can in gmail native. i.e. just put a search term in and it searches *all* your mail. 

I suspect that IMAP and/or Exchange protocols don't support it, but it's still annoying. We need better client-server protocols. It's a massive annoyance for me.


----------



## editor (May 17, 2010)

Horray! Steve Jobs is bringing us "Freedom from porn"!

http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/357979/jobs-ipad-brings-freedom-from-porn


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 17, 2010)

I thought we'd already decided that holding the iPad in one hand was uncomfortable, anyway?


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 17, 2010)

I don't want freedom from porn. I want porn enslavery


----------



## Kanda (May 17, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> I thought we'd already decided that holding the iPad in one hand was uncomfortable, anyway?



We might as well merge the iPad and iPhone threads if all we're gonna get is duplicate posts covering the same stuff all the time


----------



## Crispy (May 17, 2010)

Porn is alive and well in Safari and there's fuck all steve can do about it


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 17, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I don't want freedom from porn. I want porn enslavery



You want to be enslaved by a porno-enabled mobile communications device?

You know what's coming, don't you? 

PERVERT!!


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 17, 2010)

What else is a mobile browser for, other than porn on the go? Apps schmapps.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 17, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> What else is a mobile browser for, other than porn on the go? Apps schmapps.



If the schoolkids on the back of the buses I used to catch are any guide, nowt.


----------



## Kanda (May 17, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Porn is alive and well in Safari and there's fuck all steve can do about it



Doesn't stop people kicking up a stink about a non-issue


----------



## editor (May 17, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Doesn't stop people kicking up a stink about a non-issue


If you make your living as a developer and you've just had your app booted off the AppStore because of _delicate_ Steve's arbitrary censorship policies it may be a little bit of an issue, you know.

Btw: am I going mad or has the iPad thread disappeared?


----------



## Lazy Llama (May 17, 2010)

editor said:


> Btw: am I going mad or has the iPad thread disappeared?


Mad  - http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=312721&page=55


----------



## Kanda (May 17, 2010)

editor said:


> If you make your living as a developer and you've just had your app booted off the AppStore because of _delicate_ Steve's arbitrary censorship policies it may be a little bit of an issue, you know.
> 
> Btw: am I going mad or has the iPad thread disappeared?



Poor porn app developers. As said, just go develop for something else.


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

editor said:


> If you make your living as a developer and you've just had your app booted off the AppStore because of _delicate_ Steve's arbitrary censorship policies it may be a little bit of an issue, you know.
> 
> Btw: am I going mad or has the iPad thread disappeared?



If your working with content from the adult industry you are well aware of the risks associated in distributing that content.


----------



## The Octagon (May 17, 2010)

First they came for the porn developers


----------



## editor (May 17, 2010)

grit said:


> If your working with content from the adult industry you are well aware of the risks associated in distributing that content.


But if you've gone through the official procedure, had your app approved and then it's unilaterally booted off on a censorial whim, while bigger content partners offering the same kind of material remains in the store...?


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

editor said:


> But if you've gone through the official procedure, had your app approved and then it's unilaterally booted off on a censorial whim, while bigger content partners offering the same kind of material remains in the store...?



Yes bit of a shit one for the developer, buy hey anyone writing for the app store that is aware of the game they have to play. 

Yet they still spend the money on development so the risk reward ratio must still be compelling even with the censorship.


----------



## editor (May 17, 2010)

grit said:


> Yes bit of a shit one for the developer, buy hey anyone writing for the app store that is aware of the game they have to play.


I trust you'll retain that same nonchalant, shoulder shrugging attitude if any of your work gets pulled under similarly arbitrary circumstances elsewhere.


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

editor said:


> I trust you'll retain that same nonchalant, shoulder shrugging attitude if any of your work gets pulled under similarly arbitrary circumstances elsewhere.



Pretty much, as I said in the line you didnt quote. There is a risk reward ratio thats evaluated prior to commencing development. The project stake holders review and decide if its still compelling. If it gets the green light, its done with the understanding that it could very well go tits up.

I'm not saying that I wouldn't be disappointed, but I wouldn't be upset/angry about it. That said I dont usually sign up to projects that have high risk factors, I've got a bank manager to keep happy.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 17, 2010)

If this was anywhere else on the boards, there's _no way_ Urban would dare be seen to be potentially supporting the porn industry. Won't someone think of the sex workers??


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (May 17, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:
			
		

> If this was anywhere else on the boards, there's no way Urban would dare be seen to be potentially supporting the porn industry. Won't someone think of the sex workers??



I don't think that is the issue (let's not de-rail a thread like this for that argument), it's just being used as the most public and obvious example. 

If Jobs & Co want to (fucking try) to impose this sort of control then what else and where does it end, what are their moral/business/corporate mates boundaries (this week). 

No blue apps (unless you're 'on the guest list'), what is next?

If anything, it's the thought of some fucking apple chumps trying to dictate what I access that will make me jailbreak n fuck em at the end of the day. Once I've done that if I'm honest I'll probably install some pirated software and then the developers who weren't so unlucky to end up on an arbitury ban will lose out too.

Bah


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> Once I've done that if I'm honest I'll probably install some pirated software and then the developers who weren't so unlucky to end up on an arbitury ban will lose out too.



Well isn't that lovely, getting behind apple in the queue to fuck the developer.


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (May 17, 2010)

grit said:
			
		

> Well isn't that lovely, getting behind apple in the queue to fuck the developer.



Ain't saying it's right at all, just pointing out the fact if apple go down this route they will encourage jailbreaking of their phones and when that happens, there is a tempation to install pirate software that you prob wouldn't buy but will install for free once jailbroken. 

It also fucks apples cut...

I'm trying to make the point that censorship by apple is counter productive to everyone. After all the iPhone is predominatley web based device and what they are trying to do is against the ethos of the web on which there device is founded. I'm not condoning or encourging peeps to rip off developers, merely pointing out that it will be an outcome of their stance. 

I'll give you an example, I don't want my access to apps or content dictated by anyone, if apple want to do this then I'll jailbreak. If I jailbreak my phone then I might install a pirate of tom tom uk, 60 bangers and I'd not buy it but if my phone was jailbroken I might well install for nowt. It ain't right but it's what lots of peeps will end up doing imo. 

Just cause and effect


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> Ain't saying it's right at all, just pointing out the fact if apple go down this route they will encourage jailbreaking of their phones and when that happens, there is a tempation to install pirate software that you prob wouldn't buy but will install for free once jailbroken.



Haha, no. Your now taking the openness debate and using it as a way to justify piracy.


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (May 17, 2010)

grit said:
			
		

> Haha, no. Your now taking the openness debate and using it as a way to justify piracy.



No I'm not, I can just see that one will lead to another imo. Can't you make that connection?


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> No I'm not, I can just see that one will lead to another imo. Can't you make that connection?



There is the connection that you need to jailbreak to install pirate applications but thats where it ends.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 17, 2010)

Nobody is going to jailbreak their phone to install a shitty soft porn app.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 17, 2010)

grit said:


> There is the connection that you need to jailbreak to install pirate applications but thats where it ends.



I can see it. Lots of apps are low priced, so even if you often pirate software, if its a ball ache to do it and they don't cost much, you're more likely to buy them.

Once you've gone to hassle of jailbreaking then it becomes a lot more tempting to pirate apps.


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> I can see it. Lots of apps are low priced, so even if you often pirate software, if its a ball ache to do it and they don't cost much, you're more likely to buy them.
> 
> Once you've gone to hassle of jailbreaking then it becomes a lot more tempting to pirate apps.



It damages your credibility if your then going to argue about openness as it makes you a hypocrite.


----------



## editor (May 17, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> If this was anywhere else on the boards, there's _no way_ Urban would dare be seen to be potentially supporting the porn industry. Won't someone think of the sex workers??


It's not just about soft porn (or, more accurately, the glamour industry) or even Pulitzer winning political satirists being arbitrarily hoofed off the AppStore on Jobbo's whim.

To me, it's about the wider debate of corporate moral censorship and unfair advantage given to big business pals. 

If that doesn't bother you, fine, but it's an issue worth debating, imo.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 17, 2010)

grit said:


> It damages your credibility if your then going to argue about openness as you are proving part of job's point.



I can see that, but I do think there is an argument that if you tempt people to jailbreak by being over restrictive, then you those same people may end up pirating software who wouldn't have before.


----------



## grit (May 17, 2010)

Global_Stoner said:


> I can see that, but I do think there is an argument that if you tempt people to jailbreak by being over restrictive, then you those same people may end up pirating software who wouldn't have before.



That defence is self serving and if anything shows that on some levels Job is correct to do what he does.


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (May 17, 2010)

I've nothing more to add really. Just pointing out a simple cause and effect as I see it. 

If censorship of any kind (and I'm pretty sure we're not all talking about porn (soft or hard) here) that those who find it both offensive in it's own right and oppressive (really, what's next?) then peeps will jailbreak as a fuck you to the man, and then (if any other pirating trends or current attitudes to software piracy prevail) it will hurt both apple and app developers. Seems like a no brainer to me


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 18, 2010)

editor said:


> It's not just about soft porn (or, more accurately, the glamour industry) or even Pulitzer winning political satirists being arbitrarily hoofed off the AppStore on Jobbo's whim.
> 
> To me, it's about the wider debate of corporate moral censorship and unfair advantage given to big business pals.
> 
> If that doesn't bother you, fine, but it's an issue worth debating, imo.



Well, let's not mistake a joke - however poor it may be - for saying "let's not talk about this", shall we?


----------



## g force (May 18, 2010)

Interesting snippet of news re: Enterprise space - Standard Chartered Bank and OCBC both offering them to staff...although it's unclear what the total numbers are.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTOE64G06A20100517?type=marketsNews


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 18, 2010)

Phone's been nicked. C**ts


----------



## Badgers (May 18, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Phone's been nicked. C**ts





Fuck, are you insured?


----------



## editor (May 18, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Phone's been nicked. C**ts


Damn! That must suck. Are you insured? Are you going to get another iPhone or will you be tempted to Android it up?


----------



## Crispy (May 18, 2010)

If I had an iphone and it got stolen, I'd be kicking myself for not shelling out for MobileMe with its Find My Phone feature


----------



## The Octagon (May 18, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Phone's been nicked. C**ts



My worst nightmare (brand new phone and no insurance), hope you're in a better position.


----------



## tarannau (May 18, 2010)

Bugger mate. Where the thieves get you and your iphone?


----------



## Sunray (May 18, 2010)

Sorry to hear that Chris.



Crispy said:


> If I had an iphone and it got stolen, I'd be kicking myself for not shelling out for MobileMe with its Find My Phone feature



I would never use it so its pretty expensive for that one feature.


----------



## editor (May 18, 2010)

Crispy said:


> If I had an iphone and it got stolen, I'd be kicking myself for not shelling out for MobileMe with its Find My Phone feature


I've been waiting 2 mins to try and access that page. Apple's website has to be one of the slowest on the web!


----------



## Crispy (May 18, 2010)

Loads instantly for me. must be your end.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 18, 2010)

Same here. Instant load.


----------



## Badgers (May 18, 2010)

Straight up for me, zero issues


----------



## tarannau (May 18, 2010)

Straight up here too. Router issue?

I actually have suckered myself into buying and retaining a .mac account since the early years. And I don't even have an iphone



In mitigation, while it's an expensive luxury, I'm too used to the email address and some of the convenience it offers. Bad value in the main mind, even if does offer a few nice features and massive convenience


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 18, 2010)

I took one look at the pricing for .mac/me.com when I got into Macs, had a sneery little laugh, and have never looked again.


----------



## Crispy (May 18, 2010)

rumour is it'll be free soon


----------



## tarannau (May 18, 2010)

I hope fucking so. I wince that I'm paying an inflated, if reduced from its worst excesses, price for services available elsewhere.

But it's priced at not that ridiculous a point to motivate me enough to lose the convenience and my email address of nigh on 10 years.


----------



## sim667 (May 18, 2010)

I use mobile me, think its great, there's been at least 3 occasions where i wouldnt have found my phone if it was for that....

Also the over air syncing (contacts + calendars), push email, idisk and gallery have been invaluable for me

you can get it cheaper on ebay


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 18, 2010)

I don't have phone insurance, but my home contents insurance covers it.

What with that and a stolen bike earlier in the year, next year's premium will be enormous 

If I don't get a like for like replacement (unlikely) then I'll probably get an HTC Desire.


----------



## editor (May 18, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Loads instantly for me. must be your end.


It works now, but it was the only site not loading earlier.


----------



## sim667 (May 18, 2010)

editor said:


> It works now, but it was the only site not loading earlier.



It does everynow and then spazz out a bit.


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 18, 2010)

You have to publically state your love for it if you want it to work properly.


----------



## Winot (May 18, 2010)

I use Plaxo to sync work PC and home Mac - used to be free but now about £45/year iirc.  Looks like Mobile Me has come down a bit - £59/year - might consider this once I've got an iPad to sync too.



tarannau said:


> But it's priced at not that ridiculous a point to motivate me enough to lose the convenience and my email address of nigh on 10 years.



Should have bought your own domain - same e-mail address no matter what ISP for £5/year...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 18, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:
			
		

> Phone's been nicked. C**ts



Ah that's just shitty...


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 18, 2010)

Uh oh. No insurance - bugger!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 18, 2010)

Android it is then..?


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 18, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Android it is then..?



Maybe... I can't really afford 2 x expensive contracts though. Might have to live with a basic Nokia for 9 months.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 18, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Maybe... I can't really afford 2 x expensive contracts though. Might have to live with a basic Nokia for 9 months.



Ah yeah fair point, I was thinking you buy one unlocked...


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 18, 2010)

I weakened and ordered the Desire on Vodafone. Good deal though, £25pm for 300 mins, unlimited text and 500MB data per month (I rarely got past 300mb on iphone due to wifi everywhere). 24 month contract mind.


----------



## Kanda (May 18, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I weakened and ordered the Desire on Vodafone. Good deal though, £25pm for 300 mins, unlimited text and 500MB data per month (I rarely got past 300mb on iphone due to wifi everywhere). 24 month contract mind.



So you'll be gutted when the new improved iPhone comes out and have how many contracts on the go?


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 19, 2010)

Kanda said:


> So you'll be gutted when the new improved iPhone comes out and have how many contracts on the go?



Was bored of the iPhone. and I can't see the 4G going too much further than the Desire, though I accept it's a possibility. 

Wouldn't be willing to pay for it, anyway. No chance it'll be free with a £25pm contract!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 19, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I weakened and ordered the Desire on Vodafone. Good deal though, £25pm for 300 mins, unlimited text and 500MB data per month (I rarely got past 300mb on iphone due to wifi everywhere). 24 month contract mind.



24 months? Ouch...can't bring myself  to get one of them...


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 19, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 24 months? Ouch...can't bring myself  to get one of them...



Yeah, it was a little painful in all honesty.


----------



## Kanda (May 19, 2010)

If I manage to upgrade without giving them my 3GS.. you can have it.


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 19, 2010)

Kanda said:


> If I manage to upgrade without giving them my 3GS.. you can have it.



 Heh!


----------



## exleper (May 19, 2010)

Quick iPhone question urban:

Should I wait for the 4G to come out next month or just get a 3GS?  I can upgrade on my current Vodafone contract - for a £60 fee for the handset, I can get a 16g 3GS for £30/month with 300mins and unlimited texts (I think).  The Vodafone chap I spoke to reckoned the 4G would be more expensive for everything.  But the leaked photos make it look like a very tempting prospect.  What do you reckon?   Would it be foolish to get an iPhone now?  

(BTW: I already have an iPod Touch, so this is a sort of upgrade for me - my heart is set on an iPhone, no need to persuade me otherwise...)


----------



## editor (May 19, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I weakened and ordered the Desire on Vodafone. Good deal though, £25pm for 300 mins, unlimited text and 500MB data per month (I rarely got past 300mb on iphone due to wifi everywhere). 24 month contract mind.


You might be interested in this well-written article by a tech writer who's just switched from the iPhone to Android:

Why I became an Android fanboy
http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20005011-264.html

The Desire is a great phone, btw.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 19, 2010)

exleper said:


> Quick iPhone question urban:
> 
> Should I wait for the 4G to come out next month or just get a 3GS?  I can upgrade on my current Vodafone contract - for a £60 fee for the handset, I can get a 16g 3GS for £30/month with 300mins and unlimited texts (I think).  The Vodafone chap I spoke to reckoned the 4G would be more expensive for everything.  But the leaked photos make it look like a very tempting prospect.  What do you reckon?   Would it be foolish to get an iPhone now?
> 
> (BTW: I already have an iPod Touch, so this is a sort of upgrade for me - my heart is set on an iPhone, no need to persuade me otherwise...)



If you got the cash I'd wait.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 19, 2010)

editor said:


> You might be interested in this well-written article by a tech writer who's just switched from the iPhone to Android:
> 
> Why I became an Android fanboy
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-20005011-264.html
> ...



The following doesn't inspire confidence:



> Where Android falls short
> Not all is smooth sailing:
> &bull; Probably the single biggest weakness of Android phones is application availability. There are lots, with more arriving steadily, but it's no match for Apple, especially when it comes to games. Note that iPhone games also run on the iPod Touch and now the iPad, so the incentive is powerful for developers to reach that market. No doubt Android will follow somewhat into those parallel markets, but for now, it's clearly not the top priority among mobile programmers. I find it baffling, for example, that there's no Yahoo application for using Flickr, though the Web-based mobile site is reasonable and it's simple to upload a photo via e-mail. I missed the Kindle application, but with the Aldiko reader app, I've discovered the glories of out-of-copyright books such as Grimm's fairy tales, "Tarzan," "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz," "Oliver Twist," "The Three Musketeers," "Moby Dick," and a bunch of Rudyard Kipling tales (I read aloud to my son a lot). (Update: Amazon said Tuesday that Kindle for Android will arrive this summer.)
> &bull; A user interface that's at times clumsy and/or incoherent. The worst example here is when filling out forms such as entering passwords or addressing e-mail. The virtual keyboard covers a lot of screen real estate, and navigating among the input fields can be awkward. Overall, the iPhone was just simpler and more direct to use. I'll cut Android a little slack here, since the iPhone can be obtuse with complicated actions such as e-mailing multiple photos.
> ...


----------



## maldwyn (May 19, 2010)

exleper said:


> Quick iPhone question urban:
> 
> Should I wait for the 4G to come out next month or just get a 3GS?



As it's just a matter of weeks I'd wait.

I've just sold my payg 3gs in readiness of the 4g release - though I'm kind of without a phone for the next month or so


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 19, 2010)

Hmmm, not a bad article, but I think he's getting various phones confused here:



> • Painful browser zooming. Double-clicking to get maximum width out of a column of text is nice, but if the animation can't be done right, it shouldn't be done at all. Here, the iPhone wins, hands down, and the feature is more than cosmetic, because it really does help you keep track of where you are spatially in a Web page.



Not sure what he's on about here, the pinch to zoom in/out is exactly the same as the iPhone IME.



> • Copy-and-paste is unpleasant, if it works at all. It's not trivially easy on the iPhone, but it's better.



Again, the system on the Desire is damn near identical to the iPhone.



> • And my single biggest gripe: Typing is just better on the iPhone's virtual keyboard. It's faster and more accurate for me. When I went back to an iPhone briefly after a couple months not using it, I experienced mild distress when I found my fingers flailing around looking for a back button--but when it came to typing, I breathed a sigh of relief. I hadn't known what I was missing.



I'm guessing he's refering to the Nexus One here, the HTC Sense keyboard is a lot better than the standard Android one, and IMO much better than the iPhones I've used.


----------



## Gromit (May 19, 2010)

I agree with the author. 

When it comes to typing on a screen the iPhone does it better. 
On the desire when I try to type an o I get an I 80% of the time. Something that never happened to me on the iPhone. I can't explain why this happens but it does and its the same for certain other parts of the virtual keyboard.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 19, 2010)

Gromit said:


> On the desire when I try to type an o I get an I 80% of the time. Something that never happened to me on the iPhone. I can't explain why this happens but it does and its the same for certain other parts of the virtual keyboard.



There's a calibration thingy you can do, might be worth a try?


----------



## Sunray (May 19, 2010)

That is rubbish.

For me Android is becoming a nightmare and heading for a slow lingering crash.  The desire has a new UI over the top to provide all those features. That cut and paste was created by Apple and now its on the Desire. The swipe left and right for apps?  Any takers on who invented that?

It will be fine for 'phone' software but that for me isn't what a smart phone is about.  Its about people being able to develop for it.  It might be free but its becoming a platform maze for developers as I am in that very position at work.


----------



## bmd (May 19, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There's a calibration thingy you can do, might be worth a try?



Completely agree. The typing accuracy got miles better after I'd calibrated the keyboard. 

That said I use Swype now and pecking away at a keyboard seems quite antiquated in comparison.


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> That is rubbish.
> 
> For me Android is becoming a nightmare and heading for a slow lingering crash.  The desire has a new UI over the top to provide all those features. That cut and paste was created by Apple and now its on the Desire. The swipe left and right for apps?  Any takers on who invented that?
> 
> It will be fine for 'phone' software but that for me isn't what a smart phone is about.  Its about people being able to develop for it.  It might be free but its becoming a platform maze for developers as I am in that very position at work.



Yeah, this is my concern with the platform. Too many types of hardware to contend with making it difficult for developers.


----------



## Crispy (May 19, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yeah, this is my concern with the platform. Too many types of hardware to contend with making it difficult for developers.


Check this shit out:

http://developer.android.com/guide/practices/screens_support.html

Bloody hell!

Although iphone 4 will be mixing things up too, with its hires screen (but if it's 640x960, it won't be quite as painful)


----------



## grit (May 19, 2010)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> Completely agree. The typing accuracy got miles better after I'd calibrated the keyboard.
> 
> That said I use Swype now and pecking away at a keyboard seems quite antiquated in comparison.



YAY for Swype, best thing I've ever installed.

Sunray what exactly are the problems you are having?


----------



## Sunray (May 19, 2010)

grit said:


> YAY for Swype, best thing I've ever installed.
> 
> Sunray what exactly are the problems you are having?



For instance, we are trying to make a Android compatible version of the web software we make.  The screen size variations make it a mare.

Then there is the issue of what version of Android we support?  Remember that not all phones that run Android will run later versions or ever be upgraded, but there are soon to be 5 versions.  The earlier versions are a bit on the buggy side.  One of our guys has an 1.6 Android phone and that does not report that its an Android phone in the UserAgent string. I'm not in the business of using a stack fingerprint to work it out.

Our software auto scales so it will work OK on an Android browser but we wanted to make it better than just a resize, but the screen size issue is proving a problem.  We can make it work, but the cost of doing that far outweigh the value anyone would get back from it.


----------



## ChrisFilter (May 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> For instance, we are trying to make a Android compatible version of the web software we make.  The screen size variations make it a mare.
> 
> Then there is the issue of what version of Android we support?  Remember that not all phones that run Android will run later versions or ever be upgraded, but there are soon to be 5 versions.  The earlier versions are a bit on the buggy side.  One of our guys has an 1.6 Android phone and that does not report that its an Android phone in the UserAgent string. I'm not in the business of using a stack fingerprint to work it out.
> 
> Our software auto scales so it will work OK on an Android browser but we wanted to make it better than just a resize, but the screen size issue is proving a problem.  We can make it work, but the cost of doing that far outweigh the value anyone would get back from it.



Yeah, iffy. But then for me, a great browser (mostly) makes up for a weaker app line up.


----------



## grit (May 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> For instance, we are trying to make a Android compatible version of the web software we make.  The screen size variations make it a mare.
> 
> Then there is the issue of what version of Android we support?  Remember that not all phones that run Android will run later versions or ever be upgraded, but there are soon to be 5 versions.  The earlier versions are a bit on the buggy side.  One of our guys has an 1.6 Android phone and that does not report that its an Android phone in the UserAgent string. I'm not in the business of using a stack fingerprint to work it out.
> 
> Our software auto scales so it will work OK on an Android browser but we wanted to make it better than just a resize, but the screen size issue is proving a problem.  We can make it work, but the cost of doing that far outweigh the value anyone would get back from it.



Yes unfortunately different screen configurations are the cost of doing business in mobile, I know your frustration. Is this a web application or native code? If its native code why would you care about the useragent?


----------



## editor (May 19, 2010)

All mobile OS's are going to support a lot more screen resolutions. OS's like the Android and webOS will be turning up in all sorts of devices - printers, tablets, TVs etc - and even Apple will soon have at least three screen resolutions on offer (iPad, 3G, 4G). 

The Android OS continues to grow massively, btw, and HP - who are mahoosive in the world of printers - have announced that they'll be running some on the webOS.

http://www.wirefresh.com/hp-to-release-webos-powered-slates-tablets-and-printers/


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 19, 2010)

As we're talking about Andriod, I had a look and play with my mate's Desire. Don't fancy it.

Nothing wrong with it, just a personal thing.


----------



## bmd (May 19, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> As we're talking about Andriod, I had a look and play with my mate's Desire. Don't fancy it.
> 
> Nothing wrong with it, just a personal thing.



You know that you're very weird, don't you?


----------



## teuchter (May 19, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I weakened and ordered the Desire on Vodafone. Good deal though, £25pm for 300 mins, unlimited text and 500MB data per month (I rarely got past 300mb on iphone due to wifi everywhere). 24 month contract mind.



Are you insane? Why not just buy a handset and carry on using your existing contract?


----------



## stupid dogbot (May 19, 2010)

Bob Marley's Dad said:


> You know that you're very weird, don't you?



Yep.


----------



## Sunray (May 19, 2010)

grit said:


> Yes unfortunately different screen configurations are the cost of doing business in mobile, I know your frustration. Is this a web application or native code? If its native code why would you care about the useragent?



Its a WebApp and it primarily used on larger screens but the new version supports mobile devices.

iPhone, no problem and the JS extensions they have allow for touch screen stuff.  The Android platform does as well but its just not as smooth.


----------



## grit (May 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Its a WebApp and it primarily used on larger screens but the new version supports mobile devices.
> 
> iPhone, no problem and the JS extensions they have allow for touch screen stuff.  The Android platform does as well but its just not as smooth.



I havnt checked but perhaps there is another header in the request that could help you identify the phone other than the user agent?

Can you give some specific examples of not as smooth?


----------



## Sunray (May 19, 2010)

grit said:


> I havnt checked but perhaps there is another header in the request that could help you identify the phone other than the user agent?
> 
> Can you give some specific examples of not as smooth?



When you swipe left and right, on the iPhone its got the ability to smoothly transition but on Android there was no easy way to do that bar writing a stack of JS so we had to just page flip rather than scroll. Its OK just doesn't look quite as good.

One day it will all converge so this sort of issue will be banished to history.


----------



## grit (May 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> When you swipe left and right, on the iPhone its got the ability to smoothly transition but on Android there was no easy way to do that bar writing a stack of JS so we had to just page flip rather than scroll. Its OK just doesn't look quite as good.
> 
> One day it will all converge so this sort of issue will be banished to history.



Haven't played with it for a while but have you looked at the Jqtouch lib?

Also the reason for the iPhone smooth transitions is that apparently some CSS animations are hardware accelerated.


----------



## Sunray (May 19, 2010)

grit said:


> Haven't played with it for a while but have you looked at the Jqtouch lib?
> 
> Also the reason for the iPhone smooth transitions is that apparently some CSS animations are hardware accelerated.



No, the point is that we don't deem the effort to be worth making for minimal gain for one platform that few if any of our customers use right now. 

We have more pressing issues.


----------



## grit (May 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> One day it will all converge so this sort of issue will be banished to history.



I really wish I shared your optimism.


----------



## elbows (May 19, 2010)

grit said:


> Haven't played with it for a while but have you looked at the Jqtouch lib?
> 
> Also the reason for the iPhone smooth transitions is that apparently some CSS animations are hardware accelerated.



The hardware acceleration of user interface elements in the os,native apps and  within the web browser via css transitions & transformations is certainly one of the key ingredients of the iphones 'magic'. Other companies are foolish if they skimp on this stuff, it matters.

Happily CSS transforms etc are being included in more browsers these days, although we've yet to see widespread hardware-acceleration of this stuff on the desktop, but it is coming. 

I dont know too much about Android but apparently even outside the browser there is not a lot of hardware-accelerated UI animation going on, unless this has been addressed in a more recent version. Developers that want to use 3D in an accelerated fashion have to use OpenGL ES directly.

The other thing which is coming is WebGL, which has a lot of potential and is being supported by Webkit, Chrome & Firefox on the desktop. Hopefully it comes to mobile devices soon too, it should do, its a pretty good fit and will be rather handy once people have done the hard work of developing javascript frameworks that make utilising WebGL a piece of cake for those of us that dont want to program on the complex OpenGL level.


----------



## Winot (May 19, 2010)

exleper said:


> Should I wait for the 4G to come out next month or just get a 3GS?



Does anyone have any gossip on the likely release date for the 4G?


----------



## elbows (May 19, 2010)

Winot said:


> Does anyone have any gossip on the likely release date for the 4G?



The gossip I heard is for it to be launched on June 22 but thats not to say that you'l actually be able to get your hands on one on that date.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 19, 2010)

It'll be around in June some time; I'd wait.

Hold on - sorry - I'm derailing this Android thread. If I want to talk about the iPhone I should start a thread about it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 19, 2010)

Winot said:


> Does anyone have any gossip on the likely release date for the 4G?



The past three generations have all come out in mid June to early July, safe bet it'll be the same this year....


----------



## Sunray (May 19, 2010)

Winot said:


> Does anyone have any gossip on the likely release date for the 4G?



A near certainly they will announce it and detail its new features on the 7th of June at about 6pm here. That is the start of the Worldwide Developers Conference at Apple.


----------



## Pie 1 (May 20, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Hold on - sorry - I'm derailing this Android thread. If I want to talk about the iPhone I should start a thread about it.


----------



## editor (May 26, 2010)

US Department of Justice has just launched another anti-trust investigation into Apple's practices - for the third time in a month, according to BGR.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/26/technology/26apple.html

Mind you, this is a classic "_I've actually got nothing useful to add and haven't got a clue what it's about but I'll say something anyway_" kind of interview:



> “Certainly if the Justice Department is getting involved, it raises the possibility of potential serious problems down the road for Apple,” said Daniel L. Brown, an antitrust lawyer at Sheppard Mullin Richter & Hampton.
> 
> “Without knowing what acts or practices they are targeting, it’s difficult to say exactly how big a problem this is,” Mr. Brown added. “But it’s probably something Apple is already concerned about.”


----------



## twistedAM (May 26, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It'll be around in June some time; I'd wait.
> 
> Hold on - sorry - I'm derailing this Android thread. If I want to talk about the iPhone I should start a thread about it.



Doh i just upgraded from an old Crokia to an iPhone and wish I had done it years ago. I'm amazed at MobileMe.


----------



## Badgers (May 31, 2010)

twistedAM said:


> Doh i just upgraded from an old Crokia to an iPhone and wish I had done it years ago. I'm amazed at MobileMe.



Google up FAAP (freeappaday) and subscribe to the daily email. You will some good apps reduced to free for a day. Mostly games but I have had some goods ones.


----------



## Badgers (May 31, 2010)

Also 'Appbox Pro' is 59p and I would recommend to all new users. Has lots of stuff


----------



## sim667 (Jun 1, 2010)

I will be buying a 4g as soon as i can (my iphone is knackered and really struggling these days, but its a 3g ive had since release day)....

the question is what will i do with my old one, i very much doubt anyone will want to buy it.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> I will be buying a 4g as soon as i can (my iphone is knackered and really struggling these days, but its a 3g ive had since release day)....
> 
> the question is what will i do with my old one, i very much doubt anyone will want to buy it.



Are you out of contract?

I always just toss Carphone Warehouse my old one, I've never waited to the end of a contract before upgrading. Cost me £100 last upgrade (3GS) and still had 6 months left on my contract.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> I will be buying a 4g as soon as i can (my iphone is knackered and really struggling these days, but its a 3g ive had since release day)....
> 
> the question is what will i do with my old one, i very much doubt anyone will want to buy it.



Mazuma or Envirophone will buy it.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> I will be buying a 4g as soon as i can (my iphone is knackered and really struggling these days, but its a 3g ive had since release day)....
> 
> the question is what will i do with my old one, i very much doubt anyone will want to buy it.



I bet you'd get more then you think on Ebay, if you can be bothered with the Nigerian scam artists. I've got around £30 a couple of times for broken Nokia's with people buying them for parts, so a working, if knacked iphone should fetch a fair bit more!


----------



## editor (Jun 1, 2010)

I'm going to try and shift my iPhone 3GS 16GB on eBay - if I get £350, I'd be chuffed, but I'm probably looking at £275-£300 or so, I reckon


----------



## paolo (Jun 1, 2010)

When the 3G first shipped, 2Gs were going for £250ish on eBay. 

So yep, you can get more than you might expect.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 1, 2010)

Mine has a broken home button. 

Apparently, still worth over £100, though.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 1, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Are you out of contract?
> 
> I always just toss Carphone Warehouse my old one, I've never waited to the end of a contract before upgrading. Cost me £100 last upgrade (3GS) and still had 6 months left on my contract.



Yeah ive been on a simplicity rolling tariff since january............ So no contractual obligation left......

I wouldnt sell a phone on ebay...... the avforums are really good, i sold my 2g unlocked and jailbroken on there for about £250 iirc.

I'd probably do the same with my 3g, although keeping it as just an ipod in my car is tempting too.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 1, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm going to try and shift my iPhone 3GS 16GB on eBay - if I get £350, I'd be chuffed, but I'm probably looking at £275-£300 or so, I reckon



Going to what phone? Desire/Android? Palm?


----------



## Badgers (Jun 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Yeah ive been on a simplicity rolling tariff since january............ So no contractual obligation left......
> 
> I wouldnt sell a phone on ebay...... the avforums are really good, i sold my 2g unlocked and jailbroken on there for about £250 iirc.
> 
> I'd probably do the same with my 3g, although keeping it as just an ipod in my car is tempting too.



Sell on Gumtree


----------



## editor (Jun 1, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Going to what phone? Desire/Android? Palm?


HTC Desire. Palm have given me a Palm Pre on semi permanent loan, and it's fallen a long way behind the Desire/iPhone now.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 1, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Sell on Gumtree



You reckon id get more there?

I do a fair bit of buying and selling on AV and know it reasonably well so thought id just go with the safe option.....


----------



## Badgers (Jun 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> You reckon id get more there?
> 
> I do a fair bit of buying and selling on AV and know it reasonably well so thought id just go with the safe option.....



Maybe not _more_ but...

I find Gumtree a bit easier for electrics than the 'distance selling' that is eBay due to the £ involved.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 4, 2010)

So the next apple WWDC starts on monday

Do you reckon we'll see any anouncements?


----------



## Kanda (Jun 4, 2010)

Yes


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 4, 2010)

I fucking hope so. My iPhone is now officially fucked.

In fairness, it's lasted 2 entire years, which isn't bad going at all.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 6, 2010)

Quick question: how easy is it to unlock an iPhone to work on other networks?


----------



## editor (Jun 6, 2010)

Under 3 mins and for £15 if you believe this site:
http://www.iphoneunlockuk.com/


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 6, 2010)

o2 will unlock a pay monthly at any time, for free.

http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/unlockmyiphone.html

Still have to complete your contract, though.


----------



## ooo (Jun 7, 2010)

AnySim?


----------



## sim667 (Jun 7, 2010)

Apple WWDC starts today...... should we be expecting anything?


----------



## Kanda (Jun 7, 2010)

sim667 said:


> So the next apple WWDC starts on monday
> 
> Do you reckon we'll see any anouncements?





sim667 said:


> Apple WWDC starts today...... should we be expecting anything?





http://www.macrumors.com/


----------



## sim667 (Jun 7, 2010)

Hardly worth a rolleyes and a facepalm is it???

The clue is in the name of that page...... 'macrumours'


----------



## Kanda (Jun 7, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Hardly worth a rolleyes and a facepalm is it???
> 
> The clue is in the name of that page...... 'macrumours'



You posted exactly the same on Friday so yeah, I think it is 

Clue is in the name of that page?? eh? 

Everything is rumour till it's announced and there's a list on that page of what is rumoured to be announced....


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 7, 2010)

Come on, Stevie! Sell us an iPhone... tonight!


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Come on, Stevie! Sell us an iPhone... tonight!


And it better meet with our expectations, otherwise I'll be having a closer look at the Desire.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 7, 2010)

Tbh, it'll have to be really, really shit to make me look at the Desire.

And let's face it, it won't be. Well, it certainly won't be enough for _some people_, but hey.


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2010)

I expect the new iPhone to have the delightful industrial looks that have been leaked all over the internet, and to offer a significantly improved user experience. It'll be priced far enough of the competition to make some users look to equally capable (and more versatile) alternatives like the HTC Desire, albeit at the expense of enjoying a slightly less wonderful interface, although some will buy it anyway because it's, well, a new iPhone.


----------



## grit (Jun 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I expect the new iPhone to have the delightful industrial looks that have been leaked all over the internet, and to offer a significantly improved user experience. It'll be priced far enough of the competition to make some users look to equally capable (and more versatile) alternatives like the HTC Desire, albeit at the expense of enjoying a slightly less wonderful interface, although some will buy it anyway because it's, well, a new iPhone.



Post bookmarked for when you sell your desire and buy the 4g


----------



## sim667 (Jun 7, 2010)

Kanda said:


> You posted exactly the same on Friday so yeah, I think it is



I cant remember what ive done from day today, let alone posted on a message board.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2010)

Better battery life, better camera, better screen, and OS4 would make me happy. Anything else would be a bonus...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 7, 2010)

I pretty much don't care about the camera, tbh.


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2010)

grit said:


> Post bookmarked for when you sell your desire and buy the 4g


That may happen if it's good enough!

As you know, I always buy what I consider to be the best phone for my needs, and don't have any of that weird fanboy allegiance to a single brand.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Jun 7, 2010)

I'll almost certainly be getting the new one..because I have an original iPhone and it's creaking
also..because of inertia - I don't want to spend any effort learning anything new on the phone or synch fronts

I don't like the sound of the adverts that will presumably pop up on the phone though


----------



## tarannau (Jun 7, 2010)

yes Ed, we know that you bought the i[hone through gritted teeth. We've had enough mention of the iborg, Herr Jobs and fanbois to last a lifetime. It's a bit grating tbh - do you consider many of the posters on here 'fanboys'


----------



## Kanda (Jun 7, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> I don't like the sound of the adverts that will presumably pop up on the phone though



I wouldn't worry, thats a crap rumour. Not gonna happen. In app advertising is possible though.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 7, 2010)

iAds is a framework for app developers to put advertising in their apps. This already happens, but in all sorts of haphazard ways. If you currently use a free app that's ad-supported, then it will continue to be so, maybe using iAds. If you currently see no ads, then you will continue to see no ads. The OS itself will not feature advertising.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> yes Ed, we know that you bought the i[hone through gritted teeth. We've had enough mention of the iborg, Herr Jobs and fanbois to last a lifetime. It's a bit grating tbh - do you consider many of the posters on here 'fanboys'



Everyone that buys Apple are fanbois... 

The other day I was reading Wirefresh and had a count up on the Apple page, 7 out of the 14 articles on the page were all started with quips about 'fanboys' 'high fivin' pisstakes.. it's boring.


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> yes Ed, we know that you bought the i[hone through gritted teeth. We've had enough mention of the iborg, Herr Jobs and fanbois to last a lifetime. It's a bit grating tbh - do you consider many of the posters on here 'fanboys'



tagline amended


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> yes Ed, we know that you bought the i[hone  through gritted teeth. We've had enough mention of the iborg, Herr Jobs  and fanbois to last a lifetime. It's a bit grating tbh - do you consider  many of the posters on here 'fanboys'


I am so deeply sorry that all the people you are representing in your post are finding my comments so dreadfully grating. It must be awful for you all. 


Kanda said:


> The other day I was reading Wirefresh and had a count up on the Apple page, 7 out of the 14 articles on the page were all started with quips about 'fanboys' 'high fivin' pisstakes.. it's boring.


Not sure what wirefresh has got to do with this thread or why you're sitting there counting things, but a simple browse through the Apple category reveals your claim to be total bollocks.

However, if you would like to comment on any wirefresh coverage, there's a handy feedback facility on every page, or you're more then welcome to submit your own article - just as self-confessed fanboy hendo did last week: http://www.wirefresh.com/so-i-bought-an-apple-ipad/



twistedAM said:


> tagline amended


----------



## sim667 (Jun 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> iAds is a framework for app developers to put advertising in their apps. This already happens, but in all sorts of haphazard ways. If you currently use a free app that's ad-supported, then it will continue to be so, maybe using iAds. If you currently see no ads, then you will continue to see no ads. The OS itself will not feature advertising.



thats what happens on JB apps anyway.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Not sure what wirefresh has got to do with this thread or why you're sitting there counting things, but a simple browse through the Apple category reveals your claim to be total bollocks.



I was simply reading Wirefresh a while back and was quite suprised at your constant pisstaking. That's all. Has the page got more on it now?

It's not utter bollocks either...



> We can’t say that we’re feeling particularly tempted to join the high-fivin’ Apple queues for the iPad
> 
> Apple has posted up prices for iPad accessories to go with the (ahem) “magical and revolutionary” iPad,
> 
> ...



That didn't take long did it... So yeah, it gets a bit boring hearing you tout the same old stuff. Just my opinion like, which I'm entitled to, as are you.


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I was simply reading Wirefresh a while back and was quite suprised at your constant pisstaking. That's all. Has the page got more on it now?
> 
> It's not utter bollocks either...
> 
> ...


It's rather sad you've had to trawl back months to find some of those quotes, and it's even sadder you're doing your best to try and cast aspersions on my work elsewhere,

There's hundreds of Apple related articles on wirefresh, most of them positive, and to suggest there's some sort of Anti-Apple campaign going on is both inaccurate and rather insulting.  

If I could be arsed, I could fill up *pages* here with examples of the fair and generally positive comments I've made about Apple products, but here's just an example from my most recent post:


> Of course, there are already other finger friendly input devices available (Wacom do a low cost range), but if Apple have sprinkled their magic all over this one, perhaps it could turn out to be a killer accessory.


Apple aren't beyond criticism and I will continue to report as honestly as I can on their products and business practices.

If that upsets a few sensitive souls so be it, but I'll continue to criticise and take the piss out of _any_ product/company when appropriate.

Besides, whatever I've said about Apple pales into insignificance compared to some of the all-out onslaughts I've had about things like Palm and Windows Mobile.

Funnily enough, no one seems to get too upset about them.


----------



## tarannau (Jun 7, 2010)

A few sensitive souls? FFS

People have commented on this before and with good reason too. I think you really are deceiving yourself here.


----------



## grit (Jun 7, 2010)

Kanda said:


> That didn't take long did it... So yeah, it gets a bit boring hearing you tout the same old stuff. Just my opinion like, which I'm entitled to, as are you.



I found a great solution to this, dont read his blog 

Editor, would you not save yourself the hassle and wait til the 4g hits?


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2010)

grit said:


> I found a great solution to this, dont read his blog





grit said:


> Editor, would you not save yourself the hassle and wait til the 4g hits?


I have to say that I love the look of the  new 4G (if it is indeed the same one that has been  leaked all over t'shop) but it's almost certainly going to be an expensive upgrade and I'm drawn to the HTC desire for a variety reasons.

Back on topic, I've been enjoying an app called QuickNews recently - it has a hideous icon, but it usefully displays the main UK newspapers in a format that - for me - makes it more enjoyable to use than the paid Guardian app.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 7, 2010)

Trawl through?? I replied six minutes after your post....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> I pretty much don't care about the camera, tbh.



I'm not hugely fussed but it would be nice to have a better one. Wouldn't mind a hardware button along the side so you can hold it sideways to take snaps...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2010)

editor said:


> That may happen if it's good enough!
> 
> As you know, I always buy what I consider to be the best phone for my needs, and don't have any of that weird fanboy allegiance to a single brand.



Well said.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 7, 2010)

I am no fanbois but the distinct cost of having to replace all the app's I've bought is enough for me to stay with this phone.  It nail's what I want to do with a phone just about perfectly so I see no point in moving just for the sake of it. 

The only think I am looking forward to, is a much faster CPU, and if the pad is anything to go by I am going to be pretty happy in that respect.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 7, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm not hugely fussed but it would be nice to have a better one. Wouldn't mind a hardware button along the side so you can hold it sideways to take snaps...



The last thing I want is more hardware buttons...


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> The last thing I want is more hardware buttons...


Maybe they'll nick Palm's gesture controls - spend a few minutes with a Pre and once you've got over how shitty most of the apps are and the duff quality of the casing, you realise that their UI and navigation is absolutely sublime snd streets ahead of the iPhone's one-button approach.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Maybe they'll nick Palm's gesture controls - spend a few minutes with a Pre and once you've got over how shitty most of the apps are and the duff quality of the casing, you realise that their UI and navigation is absolutely sublime snd streets ahead of the iPhone's one-button approach.


Double-tapping the home button to get at the task switcher for multitasking is especially  - tap too slowly and you get the homescreen. What should happen IMO:

You're in an app. You press Home. The switcher pops up, you can swipe it and choose a running task, or press on a big CLOSE button that sits above the task icons. If you press Home a second time, you get the Home screen.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Maybe they'll nick Palm's gesture controls - spend a few minutes with a Pre and once you've got over how shitty most of the apps are and the duff quality of the casing, you realise that their UI and navigation is absolutely sublime snd streets ahead of the iPhone's one-button approach.



I did have a look at the Pre when it came out, and there's definitely some ace stuff in the interface.

I remember someone saying when the 3g came out on here (Sunray?) that he was pissed off it had a hardware button for a primary function, though.

Sure enough, that's what's gone on mine.


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Double-tapping the home button to get at the task switcher for multitasking is especially  - tap too slowly and you get the homescreen. What should happen IMO:
> 
> You're in an app. You press Home. The switcher pops up, you can swipe it and choose a running task, or press on a big CLOSE button that sits above the task icons. If you press Home a second time, you get the Home screen.


The Palm webOS is even smoother: press home and the open app shrinks into a 'card' and then you can either open new apps or swipe between the cards (apps) to select the one you want, or just flick it off the screen to close it. 

Combine that with the 'back' and 'forward' off-screen gesture areas and you've got the best UI on any smartphone. It's wonderfully intuitive.

Shame about the rest of the phone's shortcomings though.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 7, 2010)

editor said:


> The Palm webOS is even smoother: press home and the open app shrinks into a 'card' and then you can either open new apps or swipe between the cards (apps) to select the one you want, or just flick it off the screen to close it.
> 
> Combine that with the 'back' and 'forward' off-screen gesture areas and you've got the best UI on any smartphone. It's wonderfully intuitive.
> 
> Shame about the rest of the phone's shortcomings though.



If you jailbreak your iPhone you can implement this. Works perfectly.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 7, 2010)

Yeah, I have to say QuickDo is a nice app. Apple should have recognised it's usefulness and incorporated it themselves.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Yeah, I have to say QuickDo is a nice app. Apple should have recognised it's usefulness and incorporated it themselves.



Multi billion company that sues the ass of anyone at the drop of a hat stealing the ideas of some small developer isn't going to happen.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 7, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Multi billion company that sues the ass of anyone at the drop of a hat stealing the ideas of some small developer isn't going to happen.



They usually just buy out the company, no?

I wasn't encouraging theft, per se. More that they look at what they haven't included in relation to what's out there...


----------



## Structaural (Jun 7, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Double-tapping the home button to get at the task switcher for multitasking is especially  - tap too slowly and you get the homescreen. What should happen IMO:
> 
> You're in an app. You press Home. The switcher pops up, you can swipe it and choose a running task, or press on a big CLOSE button that sits above the task icons. If you press Home a second time, you get the Home screen.



I agree, but would like double-tap to invoke Home - maybe it'll be toggleable in the Settings. 
The app switcher I use on my jailbroken phone lets you choose the home screen (Springboard as it's known).


----------



## Structaural (Jun 7, 2010)

What times the Apple thing today (our time), anyone know?


----------



## elbows (Jun 7, 2010)

Structaural said:


> What times the Apple thing today (our time), anyone know?



http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=326442 6pm


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 7, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I agree, but would like double-tap to invoke Home - maybe it'll be toggleable in the Settings.
> The app switcher I use on my jailbroken phone lets you choose the home screen (Springboard as it's known).



Try kiridekae (or whatever it's called) - you can set it so if you double the top bar it opens a cool switcher.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 7, 2010)

elbows said:


> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=326442 6pm



Cheers, for linkage too.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 7, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Try kiridekae (or whatever it's called) - you can set it so if you double the top bar it opens a cool switcher.



I use multiflow with single home tap to invoke, works very well, just wish I had more memory on this 3G...


----------



## internetstalker (Jun 8, 2010)

Got me one of these for £70

it's the mutts nuts


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 8, 2010)

So, as I'm new to the world of contract phones (I've had my 3GS for a year and I'm on a 2-year contract), how does upgrading work? I'm toying with the idea of shelling out for the new iPhone 4, depending on how much it costs - so how much did 3G users have to pony up to get a 3GS when it came out? Did they have to pay the full, unsubsidised price for the handset, £600-odd, or was it more reasonably-priced than that for current subscribers? And... do I actually own my phone yet, or does that not happen until next year? Can I flog my current handset on eBay to scare up the funds to upgrade?


----------



## grit (Jun 8, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> So, as I'm new to the world of contract phones (I've had my 3GS for a year and I'm on a 2-year contract), how does upgrading work? I'm toying with the idea of shelling out for the new iPhone 4, depending on how much it costs - so how much did 3G users have to pony up to get a 3GS when it came out? Did they have to pay the full, unsubsidised price for the handset, £600-odd, or was it more reasonably-priced than that for current subscribers? And... do I actually own my phone yet, or does that not happen until next year? Can I flog my current handset on eBay to scare up the funds to upgrade?



You do own the phone, they dont care if its actually the phone you are using to connect to the network, once you pay the bill.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 8, 2010)

elevendayempire said:


> so how much did 3G users have to pony up to get a 3GS when it came out?



I walked into Carphone Warehouse, had 6 months left on my 18 month contract, gave them £100 + my old 3G and walked out with a 3GS and a new 18 month contract.

I guess you could flog it, upgrade deals will be announced soon.


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## elevendayempire (Jun 8, 2010)

grit said:


> You do own the phone, they dont care if its actually the phone you are using to connect to the network, once you pay the bill.


Oh, right. 'Cause I thought the whole point of only paying £170-odd for the handset and then £xx a month on the contact was that you're part-paying for the handset over 18 months or 2 years. Which would, presumably, mean that you don't actually _own_ the handset until the contract period is up.

But if they don't give a shit, then eBay here I come!


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 8, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I walked into Carphone Warehouse, had 6 months left on my 18 month contract, gave them £100 + my old 3G and walked out with a 3GS and a new 18 month contract.


Ah, well if that's the sort of figures we're talking about, then I'll just do something similar. Well, apart from the fact that I've got a year on my contract.


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## paolo (Jun 8, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I walked into Carphone Warehouse, had 6 months left on my 18 month contract, gave them £100 + my old 3G and walked out with a 3GS and a new 18 month contract.



Blimey - was that their deal, £100 + £300 worth of handset? Eck!


----------



## Kanda (Jun 8, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Blimey - was that their deal, £100 + £300 worth of handset? Eck!



I'm on a £45/month contract. So paid nothing for the handset (obviously I know the cost is built into the contract but I use nearly all my texts/call allowance these days). I also had 6 months left on my contract... I just wanted the new one. Will hopefully do the same this time...


----------



## Structaural (Jun 8, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Blimey - was that their deal, £100 + £300 worth of handset? Eck!



Init, giving up a handset you've effectively paid for by then. Ouch.
I hope I can get the new phone from T-mobile (contract up by August) and get my old handset unlocked or at least transfer it to Ms S.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 8, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I'm on a £45/month contract. So paid nothing for the handset (obviously I know the cost is built into the contract but I use nearly all my texts/call allowance these days). I also had 6 months left on my contract... I just wanted the new one. Will hopefully do the same this time...


Ah, I see. Well, I guess I'll just have to wait and see what the trade-in deals are like for me....


----------



## paolo (Jun 8, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I'm on a £45/month contract. So paid nothing for the handset (obviously I know the cost is built into the contract but I use nearly all my texts/call allowance these days). I also had 6 months left on my contract... I just wanted the new one. Will hopefully do the same this time...



Ah yeah, I remember now. The deals on the 3G > 3GS upgrade were mean.

Back on the 2G > 3G, they were positively generous. I kept my 2G and paid nothing, just signed a new contract.

This time I should be out of contract, so hopefully not much handset cost.


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## Structaural (Jun 8, 2010)

Two months ago T-mobile offered me an upgrade to the 3GS for €89 plus another 2 year contract. I refused (waiting on the 4G), a month later they were offering new customers the 3GS for 29.99 with two year contract. The jokers. 
I can't say I'm holding out for anything special here, I just wish I had a choice of carriers, I'd like to leave T-mobile as they are shit.


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I'd like to leave T-mobile as they are shit.


They're loads better than o2.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2010)

editor said:


> They're loads better than o2.



In what way? O2 were shit in terms of reception up until early this year but now I find it's great and on par with my 3G experience of T Mobile...


----------



## grit (Jun 8, 2010)

editor said:


> They're loads better than o2.



Thats certainly not my experience.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 8, 2010)

editor said:


> They're loads better than o2.



Which makes them infinitely better than Orange. God, I miss O2... I get sod all data signal from about New Cross to Farringdon with Orange. The vast majority of the time I need a data connection is on my commute and that bit of my commute takes 40 mins or so. Very disappointed.


----------



## Winot (Jun 8, 2010)

So what are Vodaphone like?  Or are they all as bad as each other?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 8, 2010)

Winot said:


> So what are Vodaphone like?  Or are they all as bad as each other?



Vodafone are good.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 8, 2010)

grit said:


> Thats certainly not my experience.



Nor mine.


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## editor (Jun 8, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> In what way? O2 were shit in terms of reception up until early this year but now I find it's great and on par with my 3G experience of T Mobile...


I hated T Mobile with a passion, but I've had loads of sporadic problems connecting in central London via o2, and travelling to south Wales on the train recently left me without a data signal for vast chunks of the journey - something that never happened on T Mobile.


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## Crispy (Jun 8, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Vodafone are good.


Vodafone have lots of business contracts, so their coverage is apparently the best


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## stupid dogbot (Jun 8, 2010)

Meh, I got off the bike in the godforsaken middle of nowhere on Saturday, whipped out the phone and used Google maps to find the road I was looking for. At nice, fast speed.

Whereas, my T Mobile phones (oh, those were dark days) had problems making so much as a simple phone call. Anywhere.


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## editor (Jun 8, 2010)

I've certainly spent enough times signal-less while Vodafone pals are LOLing away at my useless network.


----------



## Winot (Jun 8, 2010)

So when I ditch my O2 iPhone 3G (out of contract) in favour of an iPhone 4 with Vodaphone will I just need to turn up at a store with my MAC number?


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## Structaural (Jun 8, 2010)

editor said:


> They're loads better than o2.



Not here in Holland they ain't - terrible coverage and service (though that could just be a dutch thing). Not sure if we have an o2... Vodafone were the best but the most expensive. No mention of iphone 4s anywhere here yet...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2010)

editor said:


> I hated T Mobile with a passion, but I've had loads of sporadic problems connecting in central London via o2, and traveling to south Wales on the train recently left me without a data signal for vast chunks of the journey - something that never happened on T Mobile.



Odd I never have any problems in Central London, there's a two minute black spot somewhere in Canary Wharf though. I've traveled out west to Bristol and Cardiff a good few times and not had any real issues...


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## Kanda (Jun 8, 2010)

Only have problems with O2 at the White Horse part of Brixton Hill and funnily enough, at my desk! If I move to the desk next to me, it works fine


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 8, 2010)

Yeah, here at my desk is the worst connection I've ever had on it. Oh noes!

Everywhere else, it's fine.


----------



## Winot (Jun 8, 2010)

I basically don't receive calls any more on O2 - it goes stright to voicemail no matter where I am (and that can take up to 4 hours to show on visual voicemail).


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## pinkmonkey (Jun 8, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Vodafone have lots of business contracts, so their coverage is apparently the best



Yep, I first had a company mobile with them over 10 years ago, was impressed and have stuck with them ever since.  We run our business from our boat using two of their dongles with no problems, can get a signal in 99% of places on the canal system. 

Their overseas data /roaming charges are pretty good (good enough to be cheaper than hotel wifi) and customer services is UK based and free to access.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 8, 2010)

My Vodafone dongle didn't work in my local pub so I got shot of it


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## elevendayempire (Jun 8, 2010)

Hm, maybe I'll wait 'til the end of my contract and switch over to Vodafone when the iPhone 5 comes out. As we all know it will.


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## sim667 (Jun 8, 2010)

Mines been pretty much perfect on 02

only place ive had probs is on a farm in the middle of the country over near brissle somewhere.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 8, 2010)

Weird. I live in Bristol, never had the remotest problem here or anywhere around. And I never go to Brixton. So I'm staying O2.


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## Winot (Jun 8, 2010)

From what I read, O2's problems are with insufficient 3G coverage in congested areas so I guess Bristol is less congested than Brixton.


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## editor (Jun 8, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Weird. I live in Bristol, never had the remotest problem here or anywhere around. And I never go to Brixton. So I'm staying O2.


Clearly, it's very much to do with where you are located.

The o2 reception I had back on the train to Cardiff was really awful though - far, far worse than T-Mobile's.


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## stupid dogbot (Jun 8, 2010)

Actually, I have taken my phone to Brixton, once. I got told off for walking down the street using it.

I guess that means it was working.


----------



## Xanadu (Jun 8, 2010)

My phone switches to UMA (basically making & receiving calls/texts over wi-fi), so I have 100% reception in my flat.  That's with Orange btw.


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## Sunray (Jun 8, 2010)

Not sure anyone realises this but Vodaphone and O2 share their networks.  Just not the back haul.  

I've done the journey to Cornwall many times and not had a problem apart from the usual spots from time to time.


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## RaverDrew (Jun 9, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Not sure anyone realises this but Vodaphone and O2 share their networks.  Just not the back haul.



Not so sure about that, but it seems you may be right. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/23/telefonica_vodafone_network/

How come my o2 dongle doesn't receive any signal at all, yet when I put my mum's vodafone sim in the same dongle I get perfect uninterrupted HSDPA signal ?


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## Structaural (Jun 9, 2010)

> Xcode 4: Released yesterday to developers at WWDC, the developer preview version of Xcode 4 is subject to Apple's non-disclosure policy for conference attendees, and thus only a few details have managed to leak out so far. Among the interesting claims coming out, however, is that Interface Builder has been integrated into Xcode, creating a single-window "unified interface" for the development environment.
> Xcode 4 Developer Preview is the revolutionary new development environment for building Mac, iPhone, and iPad applications. With it, you can write better code, faster. WWDC attendees can log in and download this new version of Apple's Integrated Development Environment.



link


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## g force (Jun 9, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Not so sure about that, but it seems you may be right. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/23/telefonica_vodafone_network/
> 
> How come my o2 dongle doesn't receive any signal at all, yet when I put my mum's vodafone sim in the same dongle I get perfect uninterrupted HSDPA signal ?



It's not a simple case of having masts whihc companies share it's about how you process the signal and the architecture behind that to deal with the data. Voda is acknowledged to have the best network in that regard.


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## Sunray (Jun 9, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Not so sure about that, but it seems you may be right. http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/23/telefonica_vodafone_network/
> 
> How come my o2 dongle doesn't receive any signal at all, yet when I put my mum's vodafone sim in the same dongle I get perfect uninterrupted HSDPA signal ?



You'll probably find that where the signal from both is considered strong enough, they'll not share.


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## Structaural (Jun 9, 2010)

Notifications may end up improved in 4.1 or something. Apple have acquired the Palm Notification guy: http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/09/palm-loses-webos-notifications-architect-to-apple/


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2010)

Would be about time, notifications on the iPhone are shit. Palm's WebOS is a superb way to do it...


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2010)

*iPhone 4 upgrade info ahoy!*

O2 just emailed with this:



> Pay Monthly customers upgrading to iPhone 4
> 
> If you're an existing Pay Monthly customer, we have a number of ways for you to upgrade to the new iPhone 4.
> 
> ...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 10, 2010)

I'm out of contract on the 8th of July anyway, so I'm going to upgrade to the iPhone4 then. Then him indoors can have my old one (3G), with a Simplicity tariff. I feel he's getting the better end of the deal 

I don't have that many problems with O2. Getting 3G can be a bit niggly at times - for example I rarely get it downstairs at home but do upstairs. But then I generally use wi-fi at home. The train journey between Stoke and Derby has a few black out spots where it utterly disappears, but generally it's fine. I'll stick with O2.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2010)

I think if you plotted a graph of the worst possible time to sell an iPhone, the time I chose would be right in the centre. Doh!


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## ChrisFilter (Jun 10, 2010)

editor said:


> I think if you plotted a graph of the worst possible time to sell an iPhone, the time I chose would be right in the centre. Doh!



I'll do you a straight swap for the Desire.


----------



## ooo (Jun 10, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I'll do you a straight swap for the Desire.



I'm using a Desire at the moment.
Liking it so far. But it only comes with a 4GB microSD card, comparing to 16GB on the iPhone.  Not enough for my on-the-go music collection.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 10, 2010)

Glad I sold my 3gs a month ago 

I'm now waiting to pre-order a payg on the 15th from apple - assuming they make it available then.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 10, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Not sure anyone realises this but Vodaphone and O2 share their networks.  Just not the back haul.
> 
> I've done the journey to Cornwall many times and not had a problem apart from the usual spots from time to time.



Since when have they been doing this?

I can get a vodafone signal at my Mum's in Wiltshire but never an O2 signal. Unless its changed recently that wouldn't make sense.


----------



## grit (Jun 10, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Not sure anyone realises this but Vodaphone and O2 share their networks.  Just not the back haul.
> 
> I've done the journey to Cornwall many times and not had a problem apart from the usual spots from time to time.



That really sounds unlikely, got a link to back it up?


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2010)

> Vodafone and Telefonica, which trades as O2 in the UK, have signed a massive network sharing deal to work together across Europe.
> 
> The two will share networks in Germany, Spain, Ireland and the UK
> 
> In the UK the two will concentrate on building new joint sites and consolidating existing 2G and 3G sites. The companies said: "The network electronics Nodes B (3G), BTS (2G) and the radio network controllers which are linked to the core network are to remain independent."



http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/23/telefonica_vodafone_network/


----------



## grit (Jun 10, 2010)

elbows said:


> http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/03/23/telefonica_vodafone_network/



Learn something new everyday. Looks like once O2 were taken over by telefonica this was brought in, so they are still using separate hardware in some places. Just any new erections (heh) will be joint ventures.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 10, 2010)

o2 tariff details http://shop.o2.co.uk/new-iphone/tariffs.html

e2a actually there's nothing there about the initial cost of the phone on the various tariffs.

e2a capped data as well. That's new for o2.


----------



## g force (Jun 10, 2010)

Needs to be seeing as their network is groaning already


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 10, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> e2a capped data as well. That's new for o2.



Yeah, I clocked that. Shame.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> o2 tariff details http://shop.o2.co.uk/new-iphone/tariffs.html
> 
> e2a actually there's nothing there about the initial cost of the phone on the various tariffs.
> 
> e2a capped data as well. That's new for o2.



And a fiver more expensive. The cap is because everyone else is so they can get away with it now...think I might leave O2 when my time is up...


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2010)

I expect every other network to follow in due course.


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2010)

I was shocked and impressed to see unlimited data in the first place, very sad that it was a trend that didnt last.


----------



## paolo (Jun 10, 2010)

elbows said:


> I was shocked and impressed to see unlimited data in the first place, very sad that it was a trend that didnt last.



Indeed.

I remember when the UK CEO first talked about the iPhone, and said something about 200mb per month.

The iPhone forums lit up. Everyone said it was crazy. A month later, O2 relented, and then became vague to the point of an implied 'probably no limit'. Surprisingly progressive for a telco.

Shame that the industry gold standard, for data caps, is now going backwards.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2010)

500Mb isn't a lot on a desktop, I reckon  I could cruise though that in a few days just on iPlayer and the BBC news site.


I've racked up 1.6Gb of data in 2 years on my iPhone.  Assuming that a factory reset does reset the stats so for me 500Mb isn't the end of the world.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 10, 2010)

I've got 378MB left on my iPad for 17 days.... 1GB/month plan.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 10, 2010)

Sunray said:


> 500Mb isn't a lot on a desktop, I reckon  I could cruise though that in a few days just on iPlayer and the BBC news site.
> 
> 
> I've racked up 1.6Gb of data in 2 years on my iPhone.  Assuming that a factory reset does reset the stats so for me 500Mb isn't the end of the world.



I did 1.2 gb a month the first month I got an iPhone.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 11, 2010)

Never looked into SD cards before, don't have a camera that takes them.  Now I understand why Apple doesn't include them.

Too many reasons why it might fail to work.  HD Video wouldn't work with many of the slower write devices.  Leaving it to having to have to copy to the device implementing a filing system which is absent but not noticeably absent.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 11, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I did 1.2 gb a month the first month I got an iPhone.



What were you doing?  I have a broadband connection at work and at home.  

The internet is better on a large screen and keyboard.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 11, 2010)

1.2gb a month?  

Fuck me, how much mobile porn can you stream?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 11, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I've racked up 1.6Gb of data in 2 years on my iPhone.  Assuming that a factory reset does reset the stats so for me 500Mb isn't the end of the world.


Similar to mine:

Sent: 330MB
Received: 1.7GB

Last Reset: 13/09/2008

I think a lot of images get squished down by the iPhone proxy in the network, which saves quite a bit of bandwidth.


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Never looked into SD cards before, don't have a camera that takes them.  Now I understand why Apple doesn't include them.
> 
> Too many reasons why it might fail to work.  HD Video wouldn't work with many of the slower write devices.  Leaving it to having to have to copy to the device implementing a filing system which is absent but not noticeably absent.


Can't say I've ever had problems with a SD card and I find it hard to understand why you'd argue against them bring used with phones because they're very useful things. 

Being able to slam in a card straight from my camera into my Palm Treo for editing was brilliant, and I used to keep another card stuffed full of music for when I was away.


----------



## Winot (Jun 11, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> Similar to mine:
> 
> Sent: 330MB
> Received: 1.7GB
> ...



mine are:

Sent 1.4GB
Received 2.0GB

I forward a lot of work stuff - presumably the data cap is two-way?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 11, 2010)

Plenty of cameras record HD video to SD cards no problem. The base rate for SD is 16Mbps, plenty for anything the iphone would want to write.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 11, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Plenty of cameras record HD video to SD cards no problem. The base rate for SD is 16Mbps, plenty for anything the iphone would want to write.



No its not.  You need to look at the Base write speed which for older SD cards is woeful. 900Ks.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital

For a detailed reason for not using SD cards in anything tbh. Too fragmented to make sense in consumer space.


----------



## editor (Jun 11, 2010)

Sunray said:


> No its not.  You need to look at the Base write speed which for older SD cards is woeful. 900Ks.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital
> 
> For a detailed reason for not using SD cards in anything tbh. Too fragmented to make sense in consumer space.


Eh? Zillions of cameras, camcorders, notebooks etc etc use SD cards and punters seem to have no problem using them.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 11, 2010)

1st gen SD cards were measured in megabytes and barely exist any more. I really don't think you've got a valid argument here


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> 1.2gb a month?
> 
> Fuck me, how much mobile porn can you stream?



In the first month, it's somewhere between 300-700 now. I was constantly watching you tube, and tv (news mainly) on my commute!


----------



## Sunray (Jun 11, 2010)

SD card problems are fairly common issues.

OK if you techy enough to understand the problem, but not if your not.

e.g.
http://camcorders.about.com/od/accessories/a/guide_to_SDHC_camcorder_cards.htm


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 12, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> In the first month, it's somewhere between 300-700 now. I was constantly watching you tube, and tv (news mainly) on my commute!



That'll be why they're limiting it, then - they specifically don't want you streaming over 3g.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 12, 2010)

Dear Apple, would you kindly hurry up and let us know the PAYG price on your sodding new phone, I'm a boy on a budget and need to make plans before Tuesday's pre-order.




Kid_Eternity said:


> In the first month, it's somewhere between 300-700 now. I was constantly watching you tube, and tv (news mainly) on my commute!





> "one streamed YouTube video has the same effect on the network as half a million text messages sent simultaneously, the equivalent of everybody in Newcastle sending a text at once."


http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/jun/11/mobile-data-unlimited-end


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2010)

Sunray said:


> SD card problems are fairly common issues.
> 
> OK if you techy enough to understand the problem, but not if your not.


I've been intensively using SD cards for _years on end_ with no problems at all. 

Not sure what the significance is of that link either.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2010)

So weird to have a long running debate about SD cards on an Apple thread like this one..!


----------



## Sunray (Jun 13, 2010)

editor said:


> I've been intensively using SD cards for _years on end_ with no problems at all.
> 
> Not sure what the significance is of that link either.



How many of those devices were HD camcorders that recorded in H.264?

That link has a paragraph explaining that not all SD cards will work with newer camcorders.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> How many of those devices were HD camcorders that recorded in H.264?
> 
> That link has a paragraph explaining that not all SD cards will work with newer camcorders.


H.264 is actually really good for writing to the storage, compared to MPEG or MPEG2 you're talking about fractions of the writes. Going from MPEG2 to H.264 cuts the bitrate in half.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2010)

Does this need its own SD card debate thread?


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2010)

Back on topic: FTC probe into Apple's mobile ad practices now official@


> the FTC is now preparing to review allegations that Apple is engaging in anti-competitive tactics to restrict rivals in the mobile-advertising market.


http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/pda/2010/jun/14/digital-media-apple


----------



## Crispy (Jun 14, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Dear Apple, would you kindly hurry up and let us know the PAYG price on your sodding new phone, I'm a boy on a budget and need to make plans before Tuesday's pre-order.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The comments are much better than the article in that link


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2010)

Bosh! And another confirmed today!
*Trade body investigating Apple after HTC complaint*
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/358618/trade-body-investigating-apple-after-htc-complaint

It's amazing to think that patents were originally invented to help people _share_ advances in technology!


----------



## Crispy (Jun 14, 2010)

editor said:


> Bosh! And another confirmed today!
> *Trade body investigating Apple after HTC complaint*
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/358618/trade-body-investigating-apple-after-htc-complaint
> 
> It's amazing to think that patents were originally invented to help people _share_ advances in technology!


that's just another Patent War lawsuit, not an independent investigation


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2010)

Crispy said:


> that's just another Patent War lawsuit, not an independent investigation


Errr.. 





> The United States International Trade Commission is an independent, quasijudicial Federal agency with broad investigative responsibilities on matters of trade


----------



## Crispy (Jun 14, 2010)

editor said:


> Errr..


But the case is being brought by HTC - the ITC is investigating. This has happened many times before

http://www.google.co.uk/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=ITC+patent+disputes


----------



## Sunray (Jun 14, 2010)

editor said:


> Bosh! And another confirmed today!
> *Trade body investigating Apple after HTC complaint*
> http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/358618/trade-body-investigating-apple-after-htc-complaint
> 
> It's amazing to think that patents were originally invented to help people _share_ advances in technology!



HTC just exist to rip off the likes of Apple and Palm and anyone else that has a good idea, it goes straight into their phones. Just look at the time lines and feature set.

I find it quite amusing they can be so blatant about it and then file suit.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jun 14, 2010)

Sunray said:


> HTC just exist to rip off the likes of Apple and Palm and anyone else that has a good idea, it goes straight into their phones. Just look at the time lines and feature set.
> 
> I find it quite amusing they can be so blatant about it and then file suit.



HTC were making touchscreen phones way before Apple brought out the iphone.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 14, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> HTC were making touchscreen phones way before Apple brought out the iphone.



Indeed. With most of the features of the iPhone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 14, 2010)

And I bet they were just as good to use, right?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 14, 2010)

Well, looking at Vodafone's pricing (which is gonna be the same all over, innit), I know this.

There is NO FUCKING WAY I am paying £250 for a phone.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 14, 2010)

Some leaked PAYG prices seem to be suggesting £570.00 

Will Apples pre-order lines open at 1am again.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 14, 2010)

For the 32GB or the 16GB?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 14, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And I bet they were just as good to use, right?



Not really the point.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 14, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> For the 32GB or the 16GB?



PAYG prices read on an Orange forum.
Payg 32gb £570
Payg 16gb £480
Payg 8gb 3GS £380

But all still rumor until confirmed tomorrow


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 14, 2010)

If those turn out to be close, I'll be better off getting a PAYG and cutting my SIM.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 14, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Well, looking at Vodafone's pricing (which is gonna be the same all over, innit), I know this.
> 
> There is NO FUCKING WAY I am paying £250 for a phone.



The 3GS cost £275 for 32gb version when it came out...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 14, 2010)

Whereas I paid £99 for my 8GB 3G. So...

I'm an upgrade user (they offered me a 3GS for nowt in January), but I doubt that'll make a shred of difference.

They've already announced that they'll be cutting the talktime on the plan I was on in half. I have no idea what benefit there'll be to me staying with o2, at this point.

I need a new phone (the 3G is rapidly becoming more and more fucked), but I'm not going to bend over and take it up the arse for one when I can get something nearly the same for a fraction of the price, I've got better things to spend money on.


----------



## grit (Jun 14, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> PAYG prices read on an Orange forum.
> Payg 32gb £570
> Payg 16gb £480
> Payg 8gb 3GS £380
> ...



They look like about what I'd expect.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 14, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Indeed.



Pah Apple had that shit years ago 

http://www.techeblog.com/index.php/tech-gadget/apple-touchscreen-phone-circa-1983

(it was never made)


----------



## kropotkin (Jun 14, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> The 3GS cost £275 for 32gb version when it came out...


No it didn't.
PAYGO was £340 for the 16gb, another £80 AFAIR for the 32g.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 14, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> HTC were making touchscreen phones way before Apple brought out the iphone.



Apple were making touch screen devices 10 years before HTC was founded.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jun 14, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Apple were making touch screen devices 10 years before HTC was founded.



Alexander Graham Bell patented the telephone.  Nokia, HTC, Apple et al should just pay up now.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 14, 2010)

RaverDrew said:


> Alexander Graham Bell patented the telephone.  Nokia, HTC, Apple et al should just pay up now.



Surely you've just nullified your argument... Lol


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 14, 2010)

kropotkin said:


> No it didn't.
> PAYGO was £340 for the 16gb, another £80 AFAIR for the 32g.



Oh didn't read back, wasn't talking about paygo was on about contract.


----------



## live_jayeola (Jun 15, 2010)

upgrade time at end of month. too many phones too little time.
- keyboard
- decent battery life
- email, emails, emails

wtf?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jun 15, 2010)

live_jayeola said:


> upgrade time at end of month. too many phones too little time.
> - keyboard
> - decent battery life
> - email, emails, emails
> ...



You're a linux geek right ?

N900


----------



## live_jayeola (Jun 15, 2010)

good point. a few of my mates do have them. only problem is that i'll be spending much time dicking around with it. BTW, who told you I use Linux?


----------



## live_jayeola (Jun 15, 2010)

grrr! ruddy o2 website is too busy. all of those iphone *ahem* suckers, eh?


----------



## RaverDrew (Jun 15, 2010)

live_jayeola said:


> good point. a few of my mates do have them. only problem is that i'll be spending much time dicking around with it. BTW, who told you I use Linux?



Just a guess from your posts like 

Like you, what put me off an N900 was knowing that I'd spend way too much time trying my best to brick it in order to unlock some relatively pointless feature.  Since I've heard you can overclock the processor my interest has picked up again.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 15, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> PAYG prices read on an Orange forum.
> Payg 32gb £570
> Payg 16gb £480
> Payg 8gb 3GS £380
> ...



Apple have it down as 499 and 599 to buy from them, black only.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 15, 2010)

Come on, o2, let's hear the damage. So I can walk away.

Honestly, it was almost constant updates for the first couple of days, but now, nothing for 5 days!!!


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 15, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Apple have it down as 499 and 599 to buy from them, black only.



That's for the unlocked version, kind of OK, though without the Orange/02 one year free data/wifi. 

The site crashed loads of times while trying to place an order.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 15, 2010)

O2 early upgrade offers are here: http://shop.o2.co.uk/new-iphone/earlyupgradeoffer.html


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 15, 2010)

According to that:

"Good news! When we launch iPhone 4 you may be able to upgrade at no additional cost"

"May"


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 15, 2010)

Finally received a confirmation email. All I need to do now is decide which network to hook my unlocked iPhone to.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 15, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> According to that:
> 
> "Good news! When we launch iPhone 4 you may be able to upgrade at no additional cost"
> 
> "May"



Mine is £120 as my Contract ends in Jan. They will however, give me £245 for my 3GS under their recycle scheme.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 15, 2010)

Link

Dunno if anyones interested, but thats the backdoor apple reserve address...... it still works even tho the store itself is down.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 15, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Mine is £120 as my Contract ends in Jan. They will however, give me £245 for my 3GS under their recycle scheme.



Reasonably sure they mean "we won't charge you to upgrade", not "we'll give you a free handset", though.

Fully expecting the phone to be £250.

Recycle suggests £120 for my BROKEN 3G... I'm interested to see if anyone gets back what o2 are quoting from recycle. You send the phone, they offer you ££. If you don't accept their offer, you pay them to return your phone... sounds... well.


----------



## editor (Jun 15, 2010)

The pricing is certainly keen enough to entice their target market to dip into their pockets for an early upgrade. It's a smart piece of marketing too, creating an early buzz about the product. 

I suspect if I'd asked about an early Palm upgrade, they would have LOLd in my face.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 15, 2010)

Early upgrade will cost me £380. Not gonna happen when I can get a PAYG 16GB for £480. 

I need to read more into this but currently I have unlimited data, texts and 1000 minutes per month for £35 on O2. Seems new contracts and upgrades will get a data cap. So if I pick up a PAYG, sell the 3GS and keep current contract I will be better off?


----------



## Kanda (Jun 15, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Link
> 
> Dunno if anyones interested, but thats the backdoor apple reserve address...... it still works even tho the store itself is down.



You can get to that link from the iPhone page. Store is down for Mac Mini upgrades.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 15, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Early upgrade will cost me £380. Not gonna happen when I can get a PAYG 16GB for £480.
> 
> I need to read more into this but currently I have unlimited data, texts and 1000 minutes per month for £35 on O2. Seems new contracts and upgrades will get a data cap. So if I pick up a PAYG, sell the 3GS and keep current contract I will be better off?



You will be until they send you the change of terms where by you can either cancel or accept.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 15, 2010)

Sunray said:


> You will be until they send you the change of terms where by you can either cancel or accept.



Possibly... Probably!


----------



## sim667 (Jun 15, 2010)

Kanda said:


> You can get to that link from the iPhone page. Store is down for Mac Mini upgrades.



OOps


----------



## live_jayeola (Jun 15, 2010)

I think I'm going to get a Blackberry.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 15, 2010)

Swapped my Desire for a 3GS. It's good to be back 

The screen is weak, the browser is limited, the camera is crap.... but.... it just works. And it's extremely usable. Simple as that really. 

Was constantly having to correct my typing on the Desire. And it slowed to a crawl at times. The app store was rubbish and the lack of apps was annoying.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 15, 2010)

I've been filling my app boots from Free App a day.  Todays is something I shall use over the glastonbury period to refine my friends pictures.. hehe


----------



## Crispy (Jun 15, 2010)

Chris, get icab mobile, it's a proper browser with tabs and things, but renders and scrolls just as well as safari
Let's you download files for offline viewing too


----------



## editor (Jun 15, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Was constantly having to correct my typing on the Desire. And it slowed to a crawl at times. The app store was rubbish and the lack of apps was annoying.


I have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised by how good the Android's app store is - just about everything I need is there!

What is frustrating is the lack of a decent calendar/agenda app. The one in the iPhone is really rubbish and the HTC's is only marginally better - and it's the same story for all the third party apps I've seen on all platforms. 

Why is it still so hard for someone to produce the kind of versatile calendar apps that Palm had_ five years ago?_

Agendus - which was ace on the Palm - has been thoroughly crippled by Apple's restrictions, and CalendarGoo on the iPhone was also very disappointing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 15, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Swapped my Desire for a 3GS. It's good to be back
> 
> The screen is weak, the browser is limited, the camera is crap.... but.... it just works. And it's extremely usable. Simple as that really.
> 
> Was constantly having to correct my typing on the Desire. And it slowed to a crawl at times. The app store was rubbish and the lack of apps was annoying.



Welcome back.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 15, 2010)

Crispy; said:
			
		

> Chris, get icab mobile, it's a proper browser with tabs and things, but renders and scrolls just as well as safari
> Let's you download files for offline viewing too



Wow - this is excellent. Cheers


----------



## Sunray (Jun 15, 2010)

editor said:


> I have to say that I've been pleasantly surprised by how good the Android's app store is - just about everything I need is there!
> 
> What is frustrating is the lack of a decent calendar/agenda app. The one in the iPhone is really rubbish and the HTC's is only marginally better - and it's the same story for all the third party apps I've seen on all platforms.
> 
> ...



They have removed those restrictions with iOS4


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 15, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Wow - this is excellent. Cheers



Is it really that great? Seems more of an iPad thing...?


----------



## editor (Jun 15, 2010)

Sunray said:


> They have removed those restrictions with iOS4


If someone comes up with a proper calendar/scheduling app with full desktop support for the iPhone, then I may find myself being willingly pulled right back into the iBorg! 

It's a bit of a weird situation than despite all the lovely bells and whistles of my recent phones, they're all a bit crap compared to what I had on my Treo for diary functions - and it's the one thing I need more than anything else.


----------



## ooo (Jun 15, 2010)

I just use Google calendar.
Nowadays I don't even use Mail on my mac.


----------



## editor (Jun 15, 2010)

Google Calendar is pretty horrid on the desktop. Well, it is if you've got used to things like Agendus.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 15, 2010)

Any news on O2 prices for the new iPhone?


----------



## themonkeyman (Jun 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Any news on O2 prices for the new iPhone?



There were some details on the web about upgrading early:

http://shop.o2.co.uk/new-iphone/earlyupgradeoffer.html

Basically they will charge you £20 for every month you have left to go on your contract.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 16, 2010)

Crikey... anyone else played Chaos Rings? It's the iPhone exclusive Square RPG. Very impressed thus far


----------



## g force (Jun 16, 2010)

Damn I don't need to hear about RPGs....not after I got all the Final Fantasy game I could


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Any news on O2 prices for the new iPhone?



They've gone strangely silent, haven't they.

Considering their new tariffs are officially shit, it's perhaps no surprise.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 16, 2010)

Orange pricing released...

http://iphone.orange.co.uk/plans/#iPhonePAYM


----------



## boskysquelch (Jun 16, 2010)

http://bbcstreams.com/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 16, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> They've gone strangely silent, haven't they.
> 
> Considering their new tariffs are officially shit, it's perhaps no surprise.



Yeah I keep getting the stupid 'only X days to go' emails but no details of pricing...


----------



## Sunray (Jun 17, 2010)

Hard to believe it will any different to Orange, unless they are waiting to undercut the competition?  O2... not chance.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Hard to believe it will any different to Orange, unless they are waiting to undercut the competition?  O2... not chance.



Yeah I doubt it will bring any surprises...


----------



## grit (Jun 17, 2010)

So is anyone actually interested in getting one?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2010)

I wouldn't mind one.


----------



## grit (Jun 17, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I wouldn't mind one.



Either would I 

But thats a big difference to forking out 600 odd quid.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2010)

Too true..!


----------



## Kanda (Jun 17, 2010)

I'll be getting one if they have stock next Thurs.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 17, 2010)

Might be time for me to to upgrade from the iPhone 3G

Just need to work out where to get one from, might try the O2 shop at The O2.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2010)

grit said:


> So is anyone actually interested in getting one?


If the level of traffic on wirefresh is anything to go by, this one's going to sell like hot cakes. It's a fabulous looking handset.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 17, 2010)

grit said:


> So is anyone actually interested in getting one?



I'm scheduled to get one delivered on the 24th, but will probably have problems getting my hands on a microsim before then.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 17, 2010)

It's a nice machine, but I still like my phone droppable and not running out of battery


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I'll be getting one if they have stock next Thurs.



Ditto. Although I may yet move networks.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 17, 2010)

o2 handset pricing


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 17, 2010)

For my usage of 300minutes and 500mb data it's cheaper to buy PAYG iphone and get a simplicity contract.


----------



## live_jayeola (Jun 17, 2010)

i've seen a few videos both officia and otherwise and it does look __smashing__... blackberry/iphone
blackberry/iphone
blackberry/iphone
blackberry/iphone??


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 17, 2010)

Is it just me or are those o2 prices a bit bonkers?

The phone is more expensive on a 24month contract than it is on an 18month contract? So why would anyone go for a 24 month contract?


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2010)

live_jayeola said:


> i've seen a few videos both officia and otherwise and it does look __smashing__... blackberry/iphone
> blackberry/iphone
> blackberry/iphone
> blackberry/iphone??


What about blackberry/iphone/htc desire?

Blackberry still rule the roost for some things, but if you're after HD video, then it's got to be the iPhone.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 17, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> Is it just me or are those o2 prices a bit bonkers?
> 
> The phone is more expensive on a 24month contract than it is on an 18month contract? So why would anyone go for a 24 month contract?



Where is that? It looks the other way round to me.

e2a actually I see it now, only on the 100 minutes contract. v odd. A typo perhaps?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2010)

Bye, O2.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 17, 2010)

Is anyone else cheaper though? Orange aren't, for me.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 17, 2010)

How about tesco, bleak thought but they do use o2's network.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 17, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> How about tesco, bleak thought but they do use o2's network.



*shudder*


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 17, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> *shudder*


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 17, 2010)

Nothing on tesco website yet.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2010)

fen_boy said:
			
		

> Is anyone else cheaper though? Orange aren't, for me.



It's the cut from 600 to 300 minutes that kills it for me. To get what I have now will cost me £440 more than the last iPhone did.

Strictly speaking, I could afford that. But fuck them. I can get a Desire on another network for £30.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2010)

Orange do still have an 18 month, 600 minute, £35 monthly plan, so they would be cheaper for me...

But I won't use them on principal.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 17, 2010)

After a little bit of maths:

If I bought the iPhone 4 32GB from Apple and got an O2 Simplicity tariff (£15/mo for 12 months), it would cost me £869 (factoring in the 18mo equivalent of the Pay Monthly contract).

If I went for an upgrade through O2, on the £35/mo tariff, it would cost me £909.

Not a huge difference, but £40 is £40. Plus the option to change to a different contract after 12 months instead of 18, potentially saving some more money should my needs change. I'm going to hold fire on what O2 is selling the iPhone for re: Simplicity tariffs (I can't find that info anywhere on their site, I'm assuming it hasn't been announced yet), but it's likely I'll go down that route rather than the slightly more expensive 18mo option.

Either way, bloody expensive. But that's what you get for being a twat who likes shiny things.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 17, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> After a little bit of maths:
> 
> If I bought the iPhone 4 32GB from Apple and got an O2 Simplicity tariff (£15/mo for 12 months), it would cost me £869 (factoring in the 18mo equivalent of the Pay Monthly contract).
> 
> ...



This is exactly the same calculation process that I've just been through.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 17, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> This is exactly the same calculation process that I've just been through.



I imagine lots of people are adding up the numbers on their current iPhone calculator atm 

I'm assuming the price of the iPhone for PAYG O2 customers will be the price you'll buy it at for the Simplicity tariffs? I can't find anything on their site with handset prices apart from the standard 18/24mo tariffs atm.

Him indoors is having my current 3G on the O2 £15/mo simplicity tariff once I get the iPhone 4. His current phone still has one of those small green displays


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2010)

They're not doing PAYG until after launch.


----------



## pesh (Jun 17, 2010)

i'm on a simplicity tariff, £20 a month, 300mins unlimited data and texts. i'm thinking buying a PAYG and sticking with my old contract makes the most sense, then presumably jailbreaking the new phone to enable the tethering.

as much fun as the phones are it's the tethering that i use the most.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 17, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> They're not doing PAYG until after launch.



Ah, okay. What's O2's form? Do they tend to offer the handsets any cheaper than Apple? In other words, would it be worth waiting until they release their PAYG handset prices, buying one and getting a Simplicity tariff, or getting the handset from Apple and a Simplicity tariff? 

Currently, I know it would be cheaper doing the latter rather than opting for the Pay Monthly O2 option, but don't want to miss out on a few extra £s savings for the sake of holding off for a couple of weeks.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 17, 2010)

Bah ive just dropped my 3g and borked it......
no phone calls, no screen....... bugger


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Ah, okay. What's O2's form? Do they tend to offer the handsets any cheaper than Apple? In other words, would it be worth waiting until they release their PAYG handset prices, buying one and getting a Simplicity tariff, or getting the handset from Apple and a Simplicity tariff?
> 
> Currently, I know it would be cheaper doing the latter rather than opting for the Pay Monthly O2 option, but don't want to miss out on a few extra £s savings for the sake of holding off for a couple of weeks.



They'll be the same price as Apple, I expect. Hard to say for definite, though.

All I know is that for me to get the same deal as I have now with the new iPhone will cost an extra £440 over last time. Never gonna happen.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2010)

On the plus side, if I get a Desire for free off Vodafone, I can get an iPad.


----------



## elbows (Jun 17, 2010)

Initial demand seems high and my wallet seems empty so I guess I will carry on with my old iPhone 3G for a good few months yet. Something to look forward to.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 17, 2010)

I reckon the desire to have one for me will drop a bit once iOS4 is up and running on my 3GS...


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 17, 2010)

I'm considering queuing at the apple store at midnight, just to see what it's like.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> I'm considering queuing at the apple store at midnight, just to see what it's like.


You'll find no shortage of videos online documenting the 'fun' to be had standing in line for an expensive consumer gadget. Why not take a look at them and see if it's for you?


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 17, 2010)

Nothing like experiencing something first hand though.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 17, 2010)

Just called O2 to get my PAC code... they offered me a massive 100 extra minutes a month (ie, 400 instead of 300) to stay.

I explained to them that this is STILL a worse deal than last time. 

She tried to justify it, but to be honest, I don't think they're expecting to be able to retain anyone.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 17, 2010)

How long till iPhone 5 then?


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 17, 2010)

Badgers said:


> How long till iPhone 5 then?



They're probably already working on it; next summer could see an iPhone 4g (4g as in network) or we might see a 64G iPhone 4s -  I doubt we'll see as huge an advance as we're seeing this year.

As always with Apple who knows?


----------



## Sunray (Jun 18, 2010)

I doubt they will do much more with the hardware.  The software will continue to evolve as it has as its a device that is filling the Apple coffers like nothing they have ever sold.  This phone is set to be huge.

600,000 pre-orders crashing the Apple ordering system for a phone that cost more than a decent laptop?

The maths come out at very similar what every you do, I think I'll upgrade on the 18 month deal spread the payments out for 40 quid interest.


----------



## grit (Jun 18, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I doubt they will do much more with the hardware.  The software will continue to evolve as it has as its a device that is filling the Apple coffers like nothing they have ever sold.  This phone is set to be huge.
> 
> 600,000 pre-orders crashing the Apple ordering system for a phone that cost more than a decent laptop?
> 
> The maths come out at very similar what every you do, I think I'll upgrade on the 18 month deal spread the payments out for 40 quid interest.



Yeah it will go the same way as before, the next version will have incremental upgrades like more storage. This is the iPhone platform for the next two years(ish?).

600k, is a crazy number, people just cant get enough of smartphones


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2010)

This looks a great app:



> If you’ve ever had that sinking feeling at the end of a long night when you discover your precious iPhone has iLegged it somewhere, then Apple’s new Find My iPhone app could be just the ticket.
> 
> The free app – currently available on the iTunes App Store – will locate your iPhone or iPad or iPod touch should it slip down the back of a sofa or be purloined by a sneaky ne’er do well.



http://www.wirefresh.com/apples-find-my-iphone-free-app-helps-track-wayward-handsets/


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2010)

You can already do this via the MobileMe website, and of course you need a £59/year MobileME subscription for either method to work.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You can already do this via the MobileMe website, and of course you need a £59/year MobileME subscription for either method to work.



If I lost my iPhone I reckon 59 quid would be the least of my problems...


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> If I lost my iPhone I reckon 59 quid would be the least of my problems...


You'd have to have the subscription already, anyway.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 18, 2010)

I think I'll probably get an iPhone 4 for Xmas this year.


----------



## tarannau (Jun 18, 2010)

Hold on, didn't you just buy a HTC?

The Apple-disliking bloke at work manager to pre-order his iphone4 yesterday. This is in addition to his ipad and 3gs. He's grudgingly only just admitting that he's an early adopter.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You can already do this via the MobileMe website, and of course you need a £59/year MobileME subscription for either method to work.


Ah, that takes the shine off it.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 18, 2010)

editor said:


> Ah, that takes the shine off it.



You owe all of us £59 each


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2010)

Badgers said:


> You owe all of us £59 each


Bill it to Steve Jobs. He's got plenty of cash to spare.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 18, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Hold on, didn't you just buy a HTC?
> .



I did, and then I realised I preferred the iPhone and swapped it for one.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2010)

I had another play with the Desire this morning...

Maybe I'd be impressed if I'd never had the iPhone.

I might just get a £15 prepay.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2010)

Crispy said:


> You'd have to have the subscription already, anyway.



Oh is it? You can't sign up for it after losing and then find your phone?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 18, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh is it? You can't sign up for it after losing and then find your phone?



No, because the phone has to have your mobileme details entered into it first.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No, because the phone has to have your mobileme details entered into it first.



Lame...


----------



## grit (Jun 18, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lame...



How else could they identify the handset?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 18, 2010)

grit said:


> How else could they identify the handset?



IMEI?


----------



## grit (Jun 18, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> IMEI?



How do they link that to you?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2010)

http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/iphone/pricing.html

Essentially the same as o2. £10 more for the handset.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 18, 2010)

The Apple website has pushed back shipping dates even further. It seems there are display ordering issues from LG, and that coupled with the frenzied rush of pre-orders has meant they simply do not have enough.

I'm holding off on ordering, and will possibly saunter into my local reseller Thursday morning on the very, very slight off chance they may have stock.

Perhaps.

I haven't decided yet.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 18, 2010)

Turns out, if you want to have a Simplicity tariff and buy the handset outright, you will be able to do that in an O2 shop on the 24th (stock permitting, yadda yadda), but they still don't have the handset prices for that option yet.

So you can't buy the handset and get a PAYG tariff on the day, but you can buy the handset and get a Simplicity tariff on the day 

And, of course, you have to be an existing O2 customer to buy it as soon as it comes out. They just announced that today, I believe.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 18, 2010)

Guardian article has a graph and link to spreadsheet of iPhone 4 pricing, though the spreadsheet seems to make the mistake of ignoring the O2 statement that:


> All our smartphone tariffs for iPhone include Visual Voicemail, up to 1GB of UK data and unlimited Wi-Fi.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 18, 2010)

I tend to use the 3g over the free wifi, tbh. Because it's utterly, utterly shit.

So, on that basis, my choice to go back to Voda seems a good 'un. Which considering as it was made on the basis of "fuck o2" makes me


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 19, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> Guardian article has a graph and link to spreadsheet of iPhone 4 pricing, though the spreadsheet seems to make the mistake of ignoring the O2 statement that:



Very useful graph, that. Cheers LL.

I'll be sticking with my plan to buy the handset and get a Simplicity tariff. Now just got to decide between the 16GB and the 32GB. I've got a 16GB 3G, and it's only half full, but I've not put all my music on there, and with the better camera quality and HD video on the new phone I can see it filling up far quicker. I think I'll plump the extra for the 32GB. Maybe.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 19, 2010)

I've got a 32gb 3GS with only 6 gigs space less so it's got to be 32gb for me...

Think I'm gonna wait till the end of the year and upgrade on a 18 monther then (assuming nothing amazing comes out or the 3GS doesn't kick the bucket!) which will mean it will finish in time for the new 2012 iPhone...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 19, 2010)

Yeah, I'm almost certain I'll get the 32gig. What's £100 between friends?

I'm armed with phone numbers to my local O2 shops, which I plan to call on Monday to ask if they've ever had queues on iPhone Day™ I'm in the back of beyond (sort of), so I'm hoping that means there won't be nobbers sat outside all night. I'm not desperate to get it on the day, but because my contract runs out on the 8th July, and it's likely to sell out and go on backorder, I don't want to be paying over the odds on my tariff while I'm waiting for one to arrive (Apple store now says 14th July shipping, which is an improvement on the 20somethingth July, yes, July not June, that it said yesterday).

This will be my first ever time as an 'early adopter'. Let's all watch it backfire


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 19, 2010)

Also, why would someone want the white one? *vom*


----------



## Sunray (Jun 19, 2010)

I'm in Glastonbury on Thursday so unless I get up early and see if the O2 shop in Glastonbury town has one or I stay up all night and queue, reckon I can wait till July, its not the end of the world. 

Gonna take my handy cam to Glastonbury this year see what I can take.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2010)

So...iOS4 rocks into town tomorrow. Must say I'm looking forward to it; unified email inbox and better exchange support are both welcome. 

Oh and that little desired multitasking thing looks nice too.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 20, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So...iOS4 rocks into town tomorrow. Must say I'm looking forward to it; unified email inbox and better exchange support are both welcome.
> 
> Oh and that little desired multitasking thing looks nice too.



I've heard it's disappointing. A mate of mine has rolled his back to 3.1.3. But then like me he's jailbroken his phone and has a lot of the features OS4 offers. In some cases, multitasking for example, what OS4 offers isn't as good as the jailbreaking option.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I've heard it's disappointing. A mate of mine has rolled his back to 3.1.3. But then like me he's jailbroken his phone and has a lot of the features OS4 offers. In some cases, multitasking for example, what OS4 offers isn't as good as the jailbreaking option.



How's the multitasking work on a jailbroken iPhone compared iOS4? Also, what's the impact on battery life?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 20, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How's the multitasking work on a jailbroken iPhone compared iOS4? Also, what's the impact on battery life?



Loads of different options. One like the Pre's card system, for example. I'm using kirikae which I've set to activate by sliding my finger across the top of the screen. I'm then presented with a list of running apps which I can open or close from there. Not dissimilar to OS4, just a bit slicker and doesn't use hardware button. 

Slide my finger the other way across the top and it opens sbsettings - a sort of quick access control panel.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I've heard it's disappointing.


A view shared by this writer:





> *Phone 4 multitasking will disappoint*
> 
> 
> People who expect to be able to run any  application in the background on the upcoming iPhone iOS 4 are going to  be disappointed. Apple is keeping a tight leash on application  multitasking, with only a very limited range of capabilities allowed to  run in the background.
> ...



http://blogs.computerworld.com/16307/iphone_4_multitasking_will_be_disappointing

Palm are the only people to have nailed this properly. Using lovelier phones like the iPhone and Desire still feels like a step back after any amount of time on the webOS.

As an aside, it sure seems a crazy situation that developers have to live in fear of getting on the wrong side of Apple: _"When we spoke to a number of developers, that aren't keen to be named in this article for fear of backlash from Apple..."_


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Loads of different options. One like the Pre's card system, for example. I'm using kirikae which I've set to activate by sliding my finger across the top of the screen. I'm then presented with a list of running apps which I can open or close from there. Not dissimilar to OS4, just a bit slicker and doesn't use hardware button.
> 
> Slide my finger the other way across the top and it opens sbsettings - a sort of quick access control panel.



Ah right, and what about battery life?


----------



## Sunray (Jun 21, 2010)

Power is a precious resource in these type phones. Everything is a compromise. People had got use to long standby times with candy bar phones, switching people back to daily charges was about all they could get away with and while most took it on the chin it, most grumbled about it, but what it gave you over the old phone was enough to offset the complaints.

What Apple can do is to stick a power gauge onto all the key bits of the system to work out what take the most power and when. These phones have a fairly limited battery 1100mAh or so, so anything that impacts the power significantly had to be neutered to some degree.  

Apple really don't like 3rd party stuff impacting on their products, look at Jobs problem with Adobe as a good case in point. To understand why, consider the Microsoft problem. They had to deal with lots of complaints with the blue screen of death.  This was nearly always caused by the graphics card manufactures and their near constant beta drivers yet MS got the blame.  Windows NT itself was very stable.  In my old work we had the DEC Alpha version of windows NT 3.51, in the 11 years it was in service 24 hrs a day, it never crashed once.  

Its a compromise, but this form of MT will prevent dodgy apps from crashing in the background and then tight looping your battery to zero in 1 hour, while its in your pocket.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Its a compromise, but this form of MT will prevent dodgy apps from crashing in the background and then tight looping your battery to zero in 1 hour, while its in your pocket.


Can't say that ever happened with my Palm, but I very much appreciated being able to have an app or a website stream music in the background while I worked on something else, or keeping an IM window open.

I'm a big boy, so I like to decide for myself how I want to use up my battery life.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 21, 2010)

editor said:


> Can't say that ever happened with my Palm, but I very much appreciated being able to have an app or a website stream music in the background while I worked on something else, or keeping an IM window open.
> 
> I'm a big boy, so I like to decide for myself how I want to use up my battery life.




So you think you know better than Apple as to how to write mobile phone operating systems?

I fail to see that Apple are imposing these restrictions for anything other than engineering principals.

That was quite probably because all the applications were written in Javascript or by Palm and therefore reasonably reliable. I've one app on my phone thats I quite like but holy crap it crashes a lot.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 21, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Ah right, and what about battery life?



No different.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 21, 2010)

Heh.

http://apfelblog.ch/iphone/das-etwa...ed&utm_campaign=Feed:+apfelblogch+(ApfelBlog)


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2010)

Sunray said:


> So you think you know better than Apple as to how to write mobile phone operating systems?
> 
> I fail to see that Apple are imposing these restrictions for anything  other than engineering principals.


What a strange post. 

Palm have managed to make multi-tasking work perfectly well with multiple apps from multiple authors, so I'm curious as to why you think it's impossible just because (you presume) Apple are saying that's the case.


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Apple really don't like 3rd party stuff impacting on their products, look at Jobs problem with Adobe as a good case in point. To understand why, consider the Microsoft problem. They had to deal with lots of complaints with the blue screen of death.  This was nearly always caused by the graphics card manufactures and their near constant beta drivers yet MS got the blame.  Windows NT itself was very stable.  In my old work we had the DEC Alpha version of windows NT 3.51, in the 11 years it was in service 24 hrs a day, it never crashed once.
> 
> Its a compromise, but this form of MT will prevent dodgy apps from crashing in the background and then tight looping your battery to zero in 1 hour, while its in your pocket.



WTF? The adobe issue is not over power consumption. Also, MS have no relevance in this discussion.

As mentioned Android and Palm pull this off without any issues, so its not engineering.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 21, 2010)

Just been reading up on new features of iOS4, and one that editor will like is full access to the Calendar database - should finally allow decent calendar apps.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Just been reading up on new features of iOS4, and one that editor will like is full access to the Calendar database - should finally allow decent calendar apps.


That could be enough to drag me back if stuff like Agendus emerges. I'm still missing a decent calendar app, even if Android does a better job of it than the current contenders.


----------



## elbows (Jun 21, 2010)

grit said:


> WTF? The adobe issue is not over power consumption. Also, MS have no relevance in this discussion.
> 
> As mentioned Android and Palm pull this off without any issues, so its not engineering.



One of the many issues relating to Flash is power consumption. I wait with interest to see if the Android flash stuff turns out to be any good, initial reports seem to be rather mixed at best.

As for Apples 'multitasking', its certainly going to be a pain if people are expecting full multitasking or lots of apps dont update to take advantage of the stuff Apple has added to iOS 4. In a few senses its actually quite an elegant solution, with engineering principals at its heart, engineering that is trying to deliver what Apple believe is appropriate. As well as power consumption I think Apple are rather keen not to have a background app slow down other apps in a noticeable way, but I can certainly see why people arent impressed and I shall just wait and see what the reality turns out to be. Given time I believe it will be fine for many of the applications people want to multitask, but its too early to be sure.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 21, 2010)

In most cases, "multitasking" means "fast task switching" - which iOS4 supports. If you get back to exactly where you left off, without waiting for the app to reinitialise, then it doesn't matter if it's actually running in the background in the meantime.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 21, 2010)

Today I have the chore of trying to find a top-up payg microsim in readiness for Thurday.

Just finished speaking with o2 CS and they tell me if I turn up to any of their shops with a printout of my Apple pre-order they'll give me one for free, without being hassled to sign up for a monthly contract or needing to be a preexisting o2 customer (allocation of their stock of iPhone 4 will be restricted to current customers).


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Today I have the chore of trying to find a top-up payg microsim in readiness for Thurday.
> 
> Just finished speaking with o2 CS and they tell me if I turn up to any of their shops with a printout of my Apple pre-order they'll give me one for free, without being hassled to sign up for a monthly contract or needing to be a preexisting o2 customer (allocation of their stock of iPhone 4 will be restricted to current customers).



Just get a regular sim and cut it to size.


----------



## elbows (Jun 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> In most cases, "multitasking" means "fast task switching" - which iOS4 supports. If you get back to exactly where you left off, without waiting for the app to reinitialise, then it doesn't matter if it's actually running in the background in the meantime.



Yeah, some apps are starting to include this, just noticed an update for the NYTimes app that mentions this.

Beyond that, I guess there are some radio, music & VOIP apps that will benefit from doing substantial things in the background.

Not that it really matters to me right now because Ive only got an iPhone 3G.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 21, 2010)

grit said:


> Just get a regular sim and cut it to size.


But how bloody annoying is that, I know it's supposedly a simple thing to do. But I'd rather have the real thing. 

The Angel o2 shop turned me down earlier saying they were saving their microsims for existing customers (over estimating the number of iPhone4's  they'll have to sell on Thursday) and I should call back Saturday to see if there are any spare.


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> But how bloody annoying is that,



As you have seen, far less annoying then trying to find a real one


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> In most cases, "multitasking" means "fast task switching" - which iOS4 supports. If you get back to exactly where you left off, without waiting for the app to reinitialise, then it doesn't matter if it's actually running in the background in the meantime.



No in the Apple case multitasking is interchangable with fast task switching. 

There is  a fucking huge difference between the app's state being frozen and it actually still processing in the background.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 21, 2010)

grit said:


> As you have seen, far less annoying then trying to find a real one



very good point (though I suspect there will be a significant number left sim-less come Thursday - still. at least we'll have a new shiny iPod-touch to play with.)


----------



## Crispy (Jun 21, 2010)

grit said:


> No in the Apple case multitasking is interchangable with fast task switching.
> 
> There is  a fucking huge difference between the app's state being frozen and it actually still processing in the background.


Of course there is, but the number of tasks you actually _need_ to have running in the background is small. It's larger than the number of specific tasks that Apple have provided for, IMO, so hopefully they'll add capability for more use cases in the future.


----------



## Winot (Jun 21, 2010)

Have just ordered three for work, being delivered Thursday, porting on Monday.  Can't wait.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

Advise me, oh sages of Urban.

I've bitten the bullet and pre-ordered from Apple. It's not due for delivery until mid-July.

I want to get the O2 £15/mo Simplicity tariff. I'm assuming I can get a micro-sim on 8th July from my local shop, put it in my current iPhone 3G, start using that tariff that day, then cut it down/pop it out, or whatever it is one does to these newfangled micro-sims, and pop it into the new iPhone once it arrives? 

Or, can I get a micro-sim this week from the O2 shop (with my Apple order confirmation) that uses my current tariff, then keep that sim but change the tariff associated with it on the 8th, again then transferring the sim to the new phone when it arrives on 14th?

And what about keeping my number? Because I want to do that.

I'm so confused.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 21, 2010)

A SIM is a SIM is a SIM. The only thing that changes is the amount of plastic surrounding the actual chip in the middle (the gold bit).

So, if you want to use a Regular SIM in your current 3G, it needs no modification. You can then cut it down to size to fit in the 4G. You cill not be able to use a Micro SIM in your 3G unless you somehow add the missing plastic back on.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> A SIM is a SIM is a SIM. The only thing that changes is the amount of plastic surrounding the actual chip in the middle (the gold bit).
> 
> So, if you want to use a Regular SIM in your current 3G, it needs no modification. You can then cut it down to size to fit in the 4G. You cill not be able to use a Micro SIM in your 3G unless you somehow add the missing plastic back on.



I thought I saw the micro-sims had the extra plastic there and you could pop the smaller size out of it. But obv can't then make it back to normal sim size.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I thought I saw the micro-sims had the extra plastic there and you could pop the smaller size out of it. But obv can't then make it back to normal sim size.


Oooh, I think you might be right - my ipad one came like that. In which case yes, you could use it in your 3g then pop it out to the smaller size afterwards


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Of course there is, but the number of tasks you actually _need_ to have running in the background is small. It's larger than the number of specific tasks that Apple have provided for, IMO, so hopefully they'll add capability for more use cases in the future.



I'd imagine my use cases are pretty common, and the apple approach would be pretty shit for me. On the tube, listening to spotify, chatting on IM and reading RSS (while updating). 

Hardly groundbreaking stuff, but not really possible with the apple model.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 21, 2010)

grit said:


> *On the tube*, listening to spotify, chatting on IM and reading RSS (while updating).





But seriously, IM is the only one of those that you actually need to worry about. Spotify will be updated for background audio, RSS can update when you return to the app from elsewhere.

As for IM, I'm not clear on exactly how they work, but aren't Push notifications exactly for this?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Oooh, I think you might be right - my ipad one came like that. In which case yes, you could use it in your 3g then pop it out to the smaller size afterwards



So, my original question really pertained to the best/easiest way to go about it. 

I could go into the shop tomorrow, with the print out of my Apple order confirmation, and get a new micro-sim (that still has the plastic around it to fit in my current 3G). I could put it in my current phone, wait for it to activate (this seems to take about an hour for calls/texts, a bit longer for internet etc.). I would still be on my current tariff. 

Then, on 8th July, when my current contract expires, I could call O2, or go to the shop, and ask to be put onto the Simplicity tariff. Would they simply apply that without needing yet another sim change? 

Then, come 14th/15th, when my iPhone 4 arrives, I would just need to trim down the micro-sim of its excess plastic, pop it in the new phone, and as soon as iTunes has worked its mojo it'll be good to go?

OR:

Do I wait until my contract expires, THEN go to an O2 shop and ask for a Simplicity tariff but with a micro-sim (w/extra plastic), which I can then transfer to the new phone when it arrives? This seems easier, as it cuts out one step, but people are already wibbling about stores that only have enough sims for the amount of phones they've got on order. I'd rather get the new sim in my hands now.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 21, 2010)

The stores should have enough SIMS in by the time your phone turns up - and besides, even if they don't, you could just get a regular one on the same tariff and cut it up


----------



## Structaural (Jun 21, 2010)

dunno if this has been posted - looks like the iphone 4 will have 512MB of RAM: http://www.appleinsider.com/article...one_4_has_512mb_ram_doubling_ipad_report.html


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> The stores should have enough SIMS in by the time your phone turns up - and besides, even if they don't, you could just get a regular one on the same tariff and cut it up



Yes. I think I'm worrying too much. Read the posts of squeeing fanbois for long enough and you'll start to believe the sky will fall if you're not in a tent on the high street by tomorrow evening at the latest


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw, can't you just turn up to an o2 store on the 24th June and get the whole lot, or are you not with o2 currently? That's what I was going to do.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 21, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm not sure you can compare like with like regarding Palm apps and iPhone apps?



Yeah, you probably can. Palm and Android prove the mobile multi-tasking concept. If they can do it without draining batteries in an instant, so can iPhone OS.

Truth is, multi-tasking isn't important enough to the bulk of iPhone users and so the multi-tasking conundrum isn't being properly tackled.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Just been reading up on new features of iOS4, and one that editor will like is full access to the Calendar database - should finally allow decent calendar apps.



Not just the Ed, me too. I loved Agendus on the Palm Centro, great calendaring app. I clocked the calendar access thing at the keynote and have been hoping since then we'd see Agendus but no announcement yet it seems...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yeah, you probably can. Palm and Android prove the mobile multi-tasking concept. If they can do it without draining batteries in an instant, so can iPhone OS.
> 
> Truth is, multi-tasking isn't important enough to the bulk of iPhone users and so the multi-tasking conundrum isn't being properly tackled.



I withdrew the comment, was thinking about the Centro etc, forgot there was the Pre...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Vintage Paw, can't you just turn up to an o2 store on the 24th June and get the whole lot, or are you not with o2 currently? That's what I was going to do.



I am with them, yes.

Actually, as usually happens, after posting daft questions on teh internets, I've actually phoned them and asked 

I've already ordered the phone from Apple, so no worries about the shop having stock or not. It won't arrive until 14/15th July though. (I want a Simplicity tariff, and, despite what I posted previously, the O2 shop dude told me I wouldn't be able to buy the handset from them on Thursday for use with a Simplicity tariff because it's essentially a payg handset, which they are, indeed, not doing yet.)

In the meantime, I'm going into the O2 shop tomorrow, with my order confirmation from Apple, and they will give me a new micro-sim that I can pop in my current iPhone and activate. Then, on 8th July when my current contract runs out, I can call O2, who will switch me to the Simplicity tariff I want. I'll keep my number, keep that new micro-sim, etc. Then, when the new phone arrives, I just pop out the micro- bit of the new sim, and pop it in the new phone, and it carries on as normal.

The only thing complicating it was the change in contract half way through the process. I haven't swapped a sim before without having a whole new contract, so I wasn't sure how it worked.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

As regards iOS4, some people on teh internets have reported it slowing things down on a 3g, so it might be wise to hold off on upgrading to it until more reports are in. I think this has been based on the beta, but I could be wrong.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> As regards iOS4, some people on teh internets have reported it slowing things down on a 3g, so it might be wise to hold off on upgrading to it until more reports are in. I think this has been based on the beta, but I could be wrong.



That's to be expected, the 3GS should handle iOS4 better...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's to be expected, the 3GS should handle iOS4 better...



I know. Worth noting for those with a 3g though. It won't be obvious to everyone.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 21, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I withdrew the comment, was thinking about the Centro etc, forgot there was the Pre...



Aha!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Aha!



Yeah I just don't ever think of the Pre when people ask me about smartphones (it's normal Blackberry, Android or iPhone...).


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I am with them, yes.
> 
> Actually, as usually happens, after posting daft questions on teh internets, I've actually phoned them and asked
> 
> ...



Right, so they won't sell you a phone in an o2 shop on the 24th if you want a simplicity tariff? That's what I wanted. I won't bother going if that's the case.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

Anyone have an idea what time iOS4 will be available for download?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 21, 2010)




----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Right, so they won't sell you a phone in an o2 shop on the 24th if you want a simplicity tariff? That's what I wanted. I won't bother going if that's the case.



Nope. Well, I've heard 2 different things.

I called O2 and they said yes, I would be able to. Then I called my local shop, and he said no, I wouldn't be able to. I'm going to trust him, because he sounded significantly more clued-up than the person in the call centre. 

I'd call your local shop to make sure, if I were you. To make sure.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


>



Hmmm, maybe I won't, if it's all the same.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Nope. Well, I've heard 2 different things.
> 
> I called O2 and they said yes, I would be able to. Then I called my local shop, and he said no, I wouldn't be able to. I'm going to trust him, because he sounded significantly more clued-up than the person in the call centre.
> 
> I'd call your local shop to make sure, if I were you. To make sure.



It's near enough for me to just chance it.


----------



## elbows (Jun 21, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Anyone have an idea what time iOS4 will be available for download?



Dunno exactly, it tends to be the evening in the UK though, once San Fran has woken up for a while.


----------



## elbows (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> As regards iOS4, some people on teh internets have reported it slowing things down on a 3g, so it might be wise to hold off on upgrading to it until more reports are in. I think this has been based on the beta, but I could be wrong.



Well the final version has been available to devs for a few weeks so these observations might not be based on an earlier beta.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

elbows said:


> Well the final version has been available to devs for a few weeks so these observations might not be based on an earlier beta.



Didn't know that. I guess when substantial numbers of people dl it a truer picture of performance will emerge.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 21, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Anyone have an idea what time iOS4 will be available for download?



I'd forgotten that. Better work out how to backup my 3.1.3 install, or my phone will be useless. It'd be just typical of it to go into restore mode today!


----------



## sim667 (Jun 21, 2010)

When i go an buy a new iphone they wont want my 3g back will they? so i can sell it now yeah?

Its broken and i cant be arsed to get it fixed.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 21, 2010)

Depends where you're going with it. I'm planning to trade mine in, and not mention its foilbles.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

sim667 said:


> When i go an buy a new iphone they wont want my 3g back will they? so i can sell it now yeah?
> 
> Its broken and i cant be arsed to get it fixed.



Are you still in contract? If so, you'll have to buy out your contract. But no, they won't want the phone. You've paid for it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> I'd forgotten that. Better work out how to backup my 3.1.3 install, or my phone will be useless. It'd be just typical of it to go into restore mode today!



Heh yeah I remembered over the weekend and did a back up in preparation.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 21, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh yeah I remembered over the weekend and did a back up in preparation.



So you could restore to 3.1.3?

Got a link to instructions - it's the avoiding the update I need to do...??

And once iTunes knows it exists, it won't let you restore without updating.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

iOS4 is available.

Anyone who's installing it to a 3g, could you let us know if there's any appreciable difference in performance please? Ta


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> So you could restore to 3.1.3?
> 
> Got a link to instructions - it's the avoiding the update I need to do...??
> 
> And once iTunes knows it exists, it won't let you restore without updating.



I always back up before any proper software update.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Are you still in contract? If so, you'll have to buy out your contract. But no, they won't want the phone. You've paid for it.



Ive got a simplicty iphone, the rolling 30 day one....... tariff but the sim works in an old phone so im still using it


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Anyone who's installing it to a 3g, could you let us know if there's any appreciable difference in performance please? Ta


I've seen a few reports this evening that it's sloooow on a 3G.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> I've seen a few reports this evening that it's sloooow on a 3G.



I'd heard this too.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2010)

Here's one article suggesting people with the 3g hold fire: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/ios-4-performance-on-older-devices/7262

I think it's pretty crap that that's it now for software updates for the 3g. As app developers start creating apps optimised for iOS4 the pool of new, innovative apps will decline for older gen owners. It will become impossible to update to protect against bugs or exploits. You're kinda being told, well yeah, thanks for giving us your money 2 years ago, now give us a load more or fuck off.

Or maybe I'm being over dramatic.


----------



## Winot (Jun 21, 2010)

Started updating my 3G at about 8pm and it's still not finished.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 21, 2010)

Took forever on my 3GS.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Here's one article suggesting people with the 3g hold fire: http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/ios-4-performance-on-older-devices/7262
> 
> I think it's pretty crap that that's it now for software updates for the 3g. As app developers start creating apps optimised for iOS4 the pool of new, innovative apps will decline for older gen owners. It will become impossible to update to protect against bugs or exploits. You're kinda being told, well yeah, thanks for giving us your money 2 years ago, now give us a load more or fuck off.
> 
> Or maybe I'm being over dramatic.



It doesn't surprise me really, it's in Apple's interest to force older users to update their phones...


----------



## grit (Jun 21, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It doesn't surprise me really, it's in Apple's interest to force older users to update their phones...



its always only about the new shiny


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

grit said:


> its always only about the new shiny



Pretty much. 

Downloading iOS4 now, will report back once it's sorted.


----------



## Winot (Jun 21, 2010)

Has finished now - am loving the new e-mail reader, particularly the 'threads' feature.

App sorting seems a bit clunky but I'm sure I'll get used to it.

It's taken up a fuck-load of storage memory though - an extra 2.5GB by the look of it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

First post from my newly iOS4 enabled 3GS. 

Is it me or is going back to the home page from an app smoother? Multitasking works very nicely. Having a play around and not noticing any slow down.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2010)

Folders are sweeeet! Just gone from 7 pages down to three thanks to them, everything nicely organised. Apps seems to be working ok apart from 2Do which won't start. Just checked on their Facebook page and someone else has the same problem so I reckon an iOS4 update will appear for that...


----------



## Structaural (Jun 22, 2010)

http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2010/06/ars-reviews-ios-4-whats-new-and-notable.ars


----------



## g force (Jun 22, 2010)

Folders is a nice idea badly executed...be better if you could have a folder image to distinguish them all at a glance. But i'll just have to get use to it. Other than that first impressions are good.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 22, 2010)

Doesn't seem worth the upgrade on 3G (especially a jailbroken one), no multitask and no wallpapers. I'll stick with my implementation of multi-tasking until I can afford a iPhone 4.


----------



## grit (Jun 22, 2010)

Structaural said:


> http://arstechnica.com/apple/reviews/2010/06/ars-reviews-ios-4-whats-new-and-notable.ars



I've been secretly hoping that I'm going to come across something with all the new apple iPhone announcements, that make me go fuck it and buy one contract free. 

I cant see it yet, those OS4 upgrades are pretty underwhelming and well I suppose stuff like swype never happening doesn't help its case.

Anyone else feel a bit disappointed with the changes/new hardware?

Edit: Not surprised it doesn't like a jailbroken phone, you will need to restore to stock I'd say.


----------



## Winot (Jun 22, 2010)

Does anyone else find it awkward moving icons across pages?  Other than that, once set up, folders seem great.

It's battering my 3G's system memory though - have had a few crashes already.  Roll on 4.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 22, 2010)

Winot said:


> Does anyone else find it awkward moving icons across pages?  Other than that, once set up, folders seem great.
> 
> It's battering my 3G's system memory though - have had a few crashes already.  Roll on 4.



Yep, although you can organise them in iTunes very easily as well.
Folders are great, multitasking seems to work well & the mail update is really nice.
Not noticed any performance issues yet on my 3GS, & the apps I've used so far this morning seem fine with it all.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm not upgrading to iOS4. Him indoors is having this 3G when I get my iPhone 4 next month, and being insufferably technically inept he simply won't be able to cope with things like lag and crashes and so on.


----------



## Winot (Jun 22, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'm not upgrading to iOS4. Him indoors is having this 3G when I get my iPhone 4 next month, and being insufferably technically inept he simply won't be able to cope with things like lag and crashes and so on.



How's your battery life on the 3G?  Mine is about half a day so am not even bothering passing on to her indoors.  Will either flog if I can or give to kids as iPod Touch.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 22, 2010)

Winot said:


> How's your battery life on the 3G?  Mine is about half a day so am not even bothering passing on to her indoors.  Will either flog if I can or give to kids as iPod Touch.



It's not too bad, generally. Probably 3 days if not used much at all. Less than a day if used intensively for games, internet, and so on. It'll still be a culture shock to him indoors: his candy bar, green screen phone can go forever, and he still forgets to charge it  He'll grumble, moan, and kick up a stink, until we have an argument and I finally get it through to him that if he wants to play like all the other kids he's got to accept compromise


----------



## magneze (Jun 22, 2010)

Seems that IOS4 isn't smooth going for everyone..

http://www.reghardware.com/2010/06/22/apple_ios4_upgrade_issues/


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 22, 2010)

magneze said:


> Seems that IOS4 isn't smooth going for everyone..
> 
> http://www.reghardware.com/2010/06/22/apple_ios4_upgrade_issues/



Yeah, loads of people on Twitter saying it's borked their phones.

Out of interest, my 2 year old 3g has pretty much the same battery life as it always did.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 22, 2010)

Managed to get my hands on an o2 *pay & go iPhone microsim *after having visited 4 o2 shops and being told by 3 of then only monthly plan microsims were available until late July.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 22, 2010)

magneze said:


> Seems that IOS4 isn't smooth going for everyone..
> 
> http://www.reghardware.com/2010/06/22/apple_ios4_upgrade_issues/



Not gonna touch it with a bargepole.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 22, 2010)

I can't touch it, until:

a) I have the new phone or
b) There's a jailbreak available

But to be honest, I can see it being pointless on the 3g, anyway.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2010)

Two apps don't work but apart from that mines working fine. The camera's shutter speed is faster now too!


----------



## grit (Jun 22, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> But to be honest, I can see it being pointless on the 3g, anyway.



My 3g has been sitting in a drawer since January, I was going to fire it up for this, but it doesn't seem worth it at all.


----------



## elbows (Jun 22, 2010)

grit said:


> I cant see it yet, those OS4 upgrades are pretty underwhelming and well I suppose stuff like swype never happening doesn't help its case.
> 
> Anyone else feel a bit disappointed with the changes/new hardware?



Not really, Ive currently got the 3G and the new phone looks rather nice. Im not sure what else they could add, hardware wise, that would make it more of a desirable upgrade than it already is?

Software-wise I am sad that iOS 4 is so slow on the iPhone 3G.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 22, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I always back up before any proper software update.



Right, so how did you save the blobs?

Or are you just talking about an iTunes backup? If so, fuck all use to me...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2010)

Winot said:


> Does anyone else find it awkward moving icons across pages?  Other than that, once set up, folders seem great.
> 
> It's battering my 3G's system memory though - have had a few crashes already.  Roll on 4.



Yeah I'm finding moving apps about a bit fiddly now, they keep wanting to merge into a folder. Taking phone dexterity to a whole new level!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 22, 2010)

Righto, I think I've managed to backup my 3.1.3 installation so I can restore without upgrading, should my phone crash this week (as it does every week).

Instructions (for OSX) in case any one else is interested.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Right, so how did you save the blobs?
> 
> Or are you just talking about an iTunes backup? If so, fuck all use to me...



Blobs?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 22, 2010)

That's what I thought. 

If you want to revert to a previous firmware version, you're going to have fun... At best, you'd have to use someone else's custom firmware.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2010)

Well...the easiest thing I can do is sync the iPhone with my Windows laptop (which contains all the same apps, music, contacts etc as my MBP) which would take me back to the earlier version in theory?


----------



## elbows (Jun 22, 2010)

Syncing doesnt do anything to firmware.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2010)

elbows said:


> Syncing doesnt do anything to firmware.



Is it? Even with a system restore?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2010)

Yikes, Random One was just updating hers and it looks like it's borked her iPhone (it's a 32gb 3GS bought a week after I bought mine last year).


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 22, 2010)

elbows said:


> Syncing doesnt do anything to firmware.



No.

However, once the phone goes into restore mode (which mine does every 10 days or so), the only option in iTunes is "restore and update"...

Which would leave me a problem, because with the broken home button I need to jailbreak to be able to use it. 

Gonna try the blobs thing now...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 22, 2010)

Doh. Gotta put the phone into restore mode to do that, which I can't do.

Still, in case I can't get a handset this week and it does die on me again, at least I should be able to backup and restore the current firmware and jb.


----------



## grit (Jun 22, 2010)

As an innocent bystander this update looks to be a disaster?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 22, 2010)

If I ever get to see it, I'll let ya know.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 22, 2010)

Updated overnight on my 3G. Took ages as it moves all the content off the phone and then restores it.

Only problem so far is that it's triplicated all my Notes.
Seems a tiny bit slower, but not massively so.

App folders are nice, but that's about non-cosmetic the only thing of note for me.
No home screen wallpaper, no multitasking for the 3G. 

I only use a single mail account so no change there for me.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 22, 2010)

grit said:


> As an innocent bystander this update looks to be a disaster?



Not quite.
If you're innocently by standing next to someone with a 3G, then I can see that conclusion being reached.

On the other hand, my 3GS updated just fine & dandy & I've had no issues as yet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2010)

Sorted ROs iPhone by connecting it to my machine, it updated to iOS4 with no problem and is working now.

One annoying thing is there doesn't appear to be any way to turn off the background wallpaper...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 22, 2010)

grit said:


> As an innocent bystander this update looks to be a disaster?



I've had no issues at all and nobody I know has.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2010)

EA are having a 48 hour sale, just picked up c&c red alert and sim city for 59p each.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 22, 2010)

The 'places' function in Photos is pretty cool.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> The 'places' function in Photos is pretty cool.



Heh yeah I like that. It'd be nice if you could organise photos though...


----------



## Winot (Jun 22, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> I only use a single mail account so not change there for me.



You do get the conversations feature.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 22, 2010)

Winot said:


> You do get the conversations feature.


Ah yes. 

For some reason I'm also getting two "No Sender - No Subject" messages dated 01/01/1970 as the last two messages displayed in my inbox top 50.


----------



## neonwilderness (Jun 22, 2010)

Bit of a nightmare upgrading my 3GS, ended up the phone being stuck in recovery mode last night (dud firmware download I think).  Luckily managed to roll back OS3 on another computer and did the upgrade again.

Looking good so far with some nice new features.  Archive in Mail for Gmail is useful, as are folders.


----------



## metalguru (Jun 22, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> Ah yes.
> 
> For some reason I'm also getting two "No Sender - No Subject" messages dated 01/01/1970 as the last two messages displayed in my inbox top 50.



Isn't that year zero in Unix?

I had that as well and - picking up a suggestion on the internet - turned off email in settings and then turned it on again and the empty emails were gone.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 23, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh yeah I like that. It'd be nice if you could organise photos though...



Also, it doesn't copy the location metadata to an image that you post process in say, PS mobile - so you don't get those pics showing up, just the originals if you keep them - which I don't once I've got it how I want it.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 23, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I've had no issues at all and nobody I know has.



This ^^

Probably have another 10 or so people come in today that upgraded overnight.


----------



## grit (Jun 23, 2010)

metalguru said:


> Isn't that year zero in Unix?



Correct its the Unix epoch.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 23, 2010)

Shipped on: Jun 23, 2010


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2010)

Nice. I'm still mulling over whether to bother...


----------



## elbows (Jun 23, 2010)

Having seen how much I can probably still sell my 16GB 3G for, I am now fairly tempted to lurk outside the local O2 store tomorrow when they open at 8.02am.


----------



## grit (Jun 23, 2010)

elbows said:


> Having seen how much I can probably still sell my 16GB 3G for, I am now fairly tempted to lurk outside the local O2 store tomorrow when they open at 8.02am.



What is the going rate? I've got one that I'd flog.


----------



## elbows (Jun 23, 2010)

grit said:


> What is the going rate? I've got one that I'd flog.



Well Im not sure exactly, I just looked on ebay for about 10 minutes and there seemed to be 8GB ones going for anywhere between £100 and £300. I dont want to rip anyone off so Im thinking I might try to sell mine for £150, though I suspect I could get at least £200 for it if I tried.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 23, 2010)

Check the O2 website and their recycle amount. They'd give me £245 for my 3GS


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 23, 2010)

Those prices are going to come crashing down tomorrow, when EVERYBODY suddenly trades in their 3G/3GS...


----------



## Structaural (Jun 23, 2010)

Bit of video from the new iPhone:



terrible rolling shutter and stability but that's to be expected. Damn good for a phone. I wonder if the iMovie app will have stabilisation like the the desktop app.


----------



## elbows (Jun 23, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Check the O2 website and their recycle amount. They'd give me £245 for my 3GS



Blimey, cheers, it seems I can get £185 for my 16GB 3G.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Those prices are going to come crashing down tomorrow, when EVERYBODY suddenly trades in their 3G/3GS...



Probably, you could get 280 via the recycle option on O2 a couple weeks back for a 32gb 3GS...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 23, 2010)

I spoke to CPW about it this week, and the offered me £150 for mine then and there, but warned I'd be lucky to get half that from tomorrow onwards.


----------



## Winot (Jun 23, 2010)

Decided to revert to 3.1.3 on my 3G.  Tried to downgrade from here.  Didn't work.  Back to iOS4.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2010)

Nice update to the TVGuide app, you can now save programmes via it in your calendar (with push notification for reminders) and also control your Sky Plus stuff too.

Really hoping Agendus does an iOS4 update now they have calendar access...


----------



## sim667 (Jun 23, 2010)

sent my broken one of to fonebank today.... glasto for a few days and i hope to pick up a 4g next week


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2010)

Tesco iPhone 4 details are out. Must say they look good compared to the others, more minutes, better data deal, 12 month contract and for only an extra 20 quid for a 32gb...


----------



## Callum91 (Jun 23, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Tesco iPhone 4 details are out. Must say they look good compared to the others, more minutes, better data deal, 12 month contract and for only an extra 20 quid for a 32gb...



My friend works for Tesco and got a 3GS on contract when they first came out. Cheap but the network is utter shite ( according to him ). He ended up cancelling the contract. Could be a localised issue though


----------



## Kanda (Jun 24, 2010)

Just walked by the people camping out at the Apple store. round the corner already...!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 24, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Just walked by the people camping out at the Apple store. round the corner already...!



Oh man don't post that, the Ed will have an apoplectic fit!


----------



## Kanda (Jun 24, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh man don't post that, the Ed will have an apoplectic fit!



Thought I'd give him something to get wound up about before he goes to bed


----------



## editor (Jun 24, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh man don't post that, the Ed will have an apoplectic fit!


I love it


----------



## Kanda (Jun 24, 2010)

Surely that's iLove?


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 24, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Surely that's iLove?




I need to change my status to fanboI


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 24, 2010)

I see The Guardian have commisioned Fry to mastubate in public again 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2010/jun/23/iphone4-first-review-stephen-fry

What's the point? It's like getting a 2 year old to review a fucking lollipop.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 24, 2010)

TNT delivered at 9.35am 

<off to play>


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 24, 2010)

Round the corner from the Apple store on Regent St at 9 this morning.  The queue goes all the way down Hanover St, and halfway round Hanover Square.  At least 1000 people.  Apparently they had 4,500 and they've all been preordered or accounted for.  

Cycled down Oxford St, and there were queues outside all of the phone shops, me reckons they'll be all sold out very shortly.


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jun 24, 2010)

I just had a wander over there, amusingly the people that queued and didnt pre order have been pushed to the back of the queue, one guy had been queuing for two days.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 24, 2010)

Crazy...has anyone seen the growing list of people with defects? The two that jump out are yellowish screen blotches at the top or bottom of the screen and (this one cracked me up) call reception dropping to almost nothing when people pick the phone up! As we all know the metal strips around the phone are the ariels, there's a video I saw last night which shows the reception bars dropping to nothing when picked up and going back up again when laid flat on a table. 

If this is happening enough to make headlines Apple might be facing a recall...


----------



## elbows (Jun 24, 2010)

If as bad as suggested, those defects could certainly be a disaster.

I decided not to bother trying to get a new iphone today as I didnt fancy queuing, getting out of bed early, or being distracted from the iPad.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 24, 2010)

elbows said:


> If as bad as suggested, those defects could certainly be a disaster.
> 
> I decided not to bother trying to get a new iphone today as I didnt fancy queuing, getting out of bed early, or being distracted from the iPad.



Yeah I've all but decided to wait till September to upgrade, think I'm going to treat myself to the new Xbox instead.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 24, 2010)

Got mine, I queued outside the o2 shop for 3 hours from 7am this morning. I literally hate myself.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 24, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Got mine, I queued outside the o2 shop for 3 hours from 7am this morning. I literally hate myself.



I'd suggest calling Samaritans, but then you won't be able to pick the phone up AND speak


----------



## grit (Jun 24, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Got mine, I queued outside the o2 shop for 3 hours from 7am this morning. I literally hate myself.



Did you have a pre order?


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 24, 2010)

grit said:


> Did you have a pre order?



No. o2 didn't take pre-orders at all. You had to already be an o2 customer to get one.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 24, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> No. o2 didn't take pre-orders at all. You had to already be an o2 customer to get one.



Had any problems with reception or the screen?


----------



## g force (Jun 24, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Got mine, I queued outside the o2 shop for 3 hours from 7am this morning. I literally hate myself.



Good job because that's a twatty thing to do. "oh look at me everyone I have a new shiny thing"


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 24, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Had any problems with reception or the screen?



No none, it's fine so far.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 24, 2010)

g force said:


> Good job because that's a twatty thing to do. "oh look at me everyone I have a new shiny thing"



I'm afraid I can't argue with that. If I'd sorted out my pre-order with Apple I wouldn't have done it.


----------



## elbows (Jun 24, 2010)

Regarding the issues, if it's anything like previous release issues, it will turn out to be only a minority of people affected, but time will tell


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 24, 2010)

dogmatique said:


>



I know we've done it to death, but this malarkey genuinely baffles me. 

It's a fucking phone - it'll do pretty much the same things that your old one did with a few new whizzes & bangs and a new case that you'll get over by tomorrow and you'll be able to stroll into a store & buy one in 5 mins next week.
Why

(It's actually quite depressing)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 24, 2010)

It really doesn't bother me, in fact I find people's negative reactions to this weirder than the people in the line. People like to get things on release day, people go to opening nights of films, plays etc. Smartphones aren't just phones anymore, they're a critical part of people's daily lives in a number of ways...


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 24, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Had any problems with reception or the screen?



I've noticed a slight problem if I'm touching the bottom left hand corner I lose my o2 connection. 

I need to take it out and about to test signal strength.

Other than that I'm loving it.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 24, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> I've noticed a slight problem if I'm touching the bottom left hand corner I lose my o2 connection.
> 
> I need to take it out and about to test signal strength.
> 
> Other than that I'm loving it.





> What's more annoying than spending hours lining up for a shiny new gadget? Learning that your precious phone can't actually connect to the network. Well, depending on how you hold it -- word has it that the iPhone 4's bottom-left corner isn't playing nice with your skin. If you recall from the keynote, that's where the Bluetooth / WiFi / GPS antenna meets its GSM / UMTS counterpart. So we decided to test on two brand new iPhone 4 handsets purchased today in the UK.
> 
> One iPhone 4 demonstrated the issue everytime it was held in our left hand (as a right-handed person is apt to do) so that our palm was essentially bridging the two antennas. You can see that in the video after the break. Bridging the two with a finger tip, however, didn't cause any issues with the reported reception. If we had to guess, we'd say that our conductive skin was acting to detune the antenna -- in fact, we've already managed to slowly kill two calls that way so it's not just an issue with the software erroneously reporting an incorrect signal strength.



Link


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 24, 2010)

I can't get mine to do that at all. Doesn't matter how I hold it I get 5 bars the whole time. I'll see if it's still OK when I get home as the signal is weaker there.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 24, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I find people's negative reactions to this weirder than the people in the line. People like to get things on release day, people go to opening nights of films, plays etc. Smartphones aren't just phones anymore, they're a critical part of people's daily lives in a number of ways...



Not convinced. 
Your analogy to culture is also very tenuous.


----------



## editor (Jun 24, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> What's the point? It's like getting a 2 year old to review a fucking lollipop.


Indeed. But there again, the Guardian have a nice cosy little relationship going with Apple, as commented on in Private Eye this week. 


Pie 1 said:


> I know we've done it to death, but this malarkey genuinely baffles me. ...
> (It's actually quite depressing)


Me too. And some twat flew all the way from Dubai _just to stand in an iPhone queue_ in London.


----------



## elbows (Jun 24, 2010)

Well even an age of conspicuous consumption has its limits, and some of the cult-like attributes, queuing etc clearly overstep the mark for some people. Personally Im a bit conflicted with this stuff because on the one hand I appreciate good technology & design rather a lot, and I had practice being a fan of one particular type of computer by growing up as a Speccy fan, on the otherhand Im not exactly a lover of shopping, brands & corporations.


----------



## grit (Jun 24, 2010)

elbows said:


> Well even an age of conspicuous consumption has its limits, and some of the cult-like attributes, queuing etc clearly overstep the mark for some people. Personally Im a bit conflicted with this stuff because on the one hand I appreciate good technology & design rather a lot, and I had practice being a fan of one particular type of computer by growing up as a Speccy fan, on the otherhand Im not exactly a lover of shopping, brands & corporations.



They dont ask for your soul as payment, its a fucking phone.


----------



## hendo (Jun 24, 2010)

I was in the ipad queue in Westfield a few weeks ago, and I have to say I rather enjoyed it. It was fun being part of a group of people who wanted to see the new device Apple had come up with. People were chatting away and having a bit of a laugh and there was a real air of excitement. Mad really. But genuinely slightly exciting and having an ipad on its first day was great. I can see why people line up.   It's a sort of social event, not just sheep-like consumerism.


----------



## elbows (Jun 24, 2010)

grit said:


> They dont ask for your soul as payment, its a fucking phone.



I dont sit around full of pointless guilt about being a consumer of Apple products, I do ponder what I think are the multiple real consequences of such things. I complain about some of their platform control-freakery, and I also defend them against what I consider unfair criticism.

All Im talking about is the various mixed and sometimes extreme responses that Apple & its users generate. Apple this century is a phenomenon that elicits no end of opinions, and all Im saying is that I can see where most stances are coming from and some of the factors at work. I find it interesting because differing computing platforms seem to trigger some of the classic tribal thinking and behaviour that we've sen from humans in many other ways throughout history. And we know from the past that such things can be powerful forces with unintended consequences. It would be mostly stupid to compare platform wars with racism, because the stakes are not so high and there arent victims in the way there are victims of racism. But all the same its kind of related by virtue of this whole sense of self, belonging, identity and attachment stuff, and I really dont think computing platforms or other types of goods, tools, clothes etc are immune.


----------



## elbows (Jun 24, 2010)

hendo said:


> I was in the ipad queue in Westfield a few weeks ago, and I have to say I rather enjoyed it. It was fun being part of a group of people who wanted to see the new device Apple had come up with. People were chatting away and having a bit of a laugh and there was a real air of excitement. Mad really. But genuinely slightly exciting and having an ipad on its first day was great. I can see why people line up.   It's a sort of social event, not just sheep-like consumerism.



Being with other people and having the sense of a shared voyage, becoming part of something big an important happening, certainly tends to appeal to some part of the human psyche. I didnt really get this from my experience of queuing for Leopard to come out at the Apple Bullring store. But I did get a twinge of it from participating in a 100+ page forum post elsewhere, tracking ipad deliveries when it first came out in the UK. In some ways it is all shallow and pretend, on another it fulfils some need within a social animal. I do it because I am a geek with far too much time dedicated to typing on the net, and I am socially undernourished. But really a good festival satisfies the need about a million times more effectively for me.


----------



## editor (Jun 24, 2010)

elbows said:


> Being with other people and having the sense of a shared voyage


It's a queue to buy an expensive consmer item in a shopping mall, not a fucking "voyage!"


----------



## themonkeyman (Jun 24, 2010)

lol at the antenna problems.  I'll wait till the iPhone 5 comes out next year.


----------



## elbows (Jun 24, 2010)

editor said:


> It's a queue to buy an expensive consmer item in a shopping mall, not a fucking "voyage!"



But Im not talking about how people who arent part of the experience are feeling, Im talking about certain feelings that humans can have towards events that they are a part of. My use of grandiose and excessive language is deliberate, it reflects quite how much even relatively mundane events can come to mean to people, at least at the time that they are fully immersed in the environment. 

A certain state of mind enables people to go on all sorts of powerful voyages, experiences, adventures, etc, when the cold external reality suggests they arent doing anything even remotely important or impressive at all.  Im not attacking or defending the phenomenon, but I am suggesting that it is largely immune to the opinions of those who are not a part of it. One mans stupid pointless waste of time is anothers deep joy, and it really isnt very important whether there is any underlying substance, as the power of religious belief and shared congregation demonstrates.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 24, 2010)

themonkeyman said:


> lol at the antenna problems.  I'll wait till the iPhone 5 comes out next year.



It's a slight irritation and easy to work around - I don't what it replaced just yet


----------



## sim667 (Jun 24, 2010)

one of the students at work had one and he'd read about the antennae problem previously, and reckoned having a bumper on it would sort it out.


----------



## elbows (Jun 24, 2010)

There are indeed reports coming in that bumpers & other sorts of cases get rid of the problem.


----------



## Callum91 (Jun 24, 2010)

elbows said:


> There are indeed reports coming in that bumpers & other sorts of cases get rid of the problem.



How conveiniant , buy a £600 phone then have to shell out another £25 just to make it work  , how very Apple


----------



## Dr. Furface (Jun 24, 2010)

hendo said:


> I was in the ipad queue in Westfield a few weeks ago, and I have to say I rather enjoyed it. It was fun being part of a group of people who wanted to see the new device Apple had come up with. People were chatting away and having a bit of a laugh and there was a real air of excitement. Mad really. But genuinely slightly exciting and having an ipad on its first day was great. I can see why people line up.   It's a sort of social event, not just sheep-like consumerism.


Queueing. Like - Wow! Gimme that over being at a World Cup Final any day!


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 24, 2010)

Callum91 said:


> How conveiniant , buy a £600 phone then have to shell out another £25 just to make it work  , how very Apple



Jaysus!  25 quid for a rubber band!


----------



## elbows (Jun 24, 2010)

If the problem turns out to be widespread then its likely one of the most stupid design errors Apple have made for quite some time. I suppose its possible that certain hands could be the issue rather than certain devices, eg it only affects people who have a certain level of conductive potential within the skin of their hand, and Apple didnt test for this, I dunno.

There are some indications that the 'yellow spots' screen problem goes away given a little time using the screen, though still a tad too early to be sure.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 24, 2010)

Wrong kind of hands, eh?  I wonder if I have the wrong kind of "conductive potential" You couldn't make it up! - Oh, you just did! 

Sounds more like a manufacturing flaw - Fenboy didn't have a problem, not everyone is, and it would have been noticed earlier - Engadget didn't have any issues with their review one, and neither do many other people.  But still - sounds like roulette at the moment.


----------



## hendo (Jun 24, 2010)

Dr. Furface said:


> Queueing. Like - Wow! Gimme that over being at a World Cup Final any day!



Look I'm not saying this wasn't absurd. I'm just describing how it felt.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 24, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Not convinced.
> Your analogy to culture is also very tenuous.



For you maybe but it does carry weight. These things are no longer simply a phone.


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> For you maybe but it does carry weight. These things are no longer simply a phone.


My iPhone was just a rather good (smart) phone to me. What else should it have been?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2010)

editor said:


> My iPhone was just a rather good (smart) phone to me. What else should it have been?



For someone who once boasted they wrote a whole article on their Treo 650 that's quite an incredible post...


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> For someone who once boasted they wrote a whole article on their Treo 650 that's quite an incredible post...


I don't believe that at any point in that article did I claim it was anything other than a smartphone, and parts were quite critical too.  

Oh, and I was paid to write the article and I don't recall "boasting" about it when it was published. FOUR years ago.

So what is your point here?


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

It seems that Apple have acknowledged the reception issues - and it's the user's fault for holding it the wrong way! 

Apple official statement:


> Gripping any mobile phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance, with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your iPhone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases.


http://gizmodo.com/5572279/apples-acknowledges-iphone-4-reception-issues-says-dont-hold-it-like-that

Good piece on Gizmodo about Facetime which more or less chimes with my own opinion


> Making a call on FaceTime is very cool, at first. You see who you're talking to! You talk about what you are doing, that being using a videocalling system built right into a phone. How cool! You can do neat things like flick the little thumbnail of yourself from corner to corner and flip between the front and back cameras. It's just neat.
> 
> But then, once you have fiddled with it and both acknowledged how neat it is, once you have showed off your surroundings, once you move onto a conversation about something other than FaceTime, things get a little weird.
> 
> ...



http://gizmodo.com/5572045/test-notes-facetime


----------



## teuchter (Jun 25, 2010)

> I can't call my buddies and show off a gigantic cheeseburger I'm about to eat at a restaurant.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 25, 2010)

editor said:


> It seems that Apple have acknowledged the reception issues - and it's the user's fault for holding it the wrong way!
> 
> Apple official statement:
> 
> ...



Why is this news? We've been able to do this for at least 5 years now and nobody bothers. Apple does it and its like they invented it or something!


----------



## teuchter (Jun 25, 2010)

G_S said:


> Why is this news? We've been able to do this for at least 5 years now and nobody bothers. Apple does it and its like they invented it or something!



Yeah and not restricted to wifi either.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 25, 2010)

dogmatique said:


> Jaysus!  25 quid for a rubber band!




Which in turn, makes it look like a 3GS phone that you've just queued for hours to replace


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 25, 2010)

mines been dropping calls all yesterday I assumed that the network was also somewhat overloaded until i swapped the sim back to my old iphone and it worked perfectly...

not happy will be seeing what O2 intend to do about it as the phone part of the phone doesn't work.

I'm expecting that there'll be enough of a user problem to force a recall or like nintendo and the wii-mote they'll force apple to issue protective covers or face a class action suit in the states.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 25, 2010)

Still not had any problems with mine at all. Calls fine, sound quality fine, signal fine, everything fine. Very happy with it so far.
Worried about dropping it, but refuse to pay £25 for the bumper thing. Currently keeping it in a sock.


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Worried about dropping it, but refuse to pay £25 for the bumper thing. Currently keeping it in a sock.


Looks like a case might be essential if you're prone to dropping your phone:



> Land it flat on the ground, and it will smash. We have evidence. Before i show you the evidence, I am going to point out a design flaw that will bite them in the future. On the new iPhone, the glass basically sits on top of the aluminum frame. On the old iphone, it was recessed and protected by a chrome bezel.



http://www.ifixyouri.com/blog/?p=59


----------



## themonkeyman (Jun 25, 2010)

elbows said:


> There are indeed reports coming in that bumpers & other sorts of cases get rid of the problem.



yeah, buy a bumper.

How about testing a mass consumer product properly before it is launched to the market.

That's poor from Apple, poor.


----------



## g force (Jun 25, 2010)

Just found one very annoying thing with iOS4 on the 3GS - while verything has worked perfectly and I liek the new fixes in the iPod, the folder etc...all of my old photos in the "library" (ie not those taken with the phone camera) have lost their quality and become slightly pixelated.


----------



## elbows (Jun 25, 2010)

themonkeyman said:


> yeah, buy a bumper.
> 
> How about testing a mass consumer product properly before it is launched to the market.
> 
> That's poor from Apple, poor.



Well Im certainly not trying to defend them on this one, I was just pointing out what users were reporting about the problem.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2010)

g force said:


> Just found one very annoying thing with iOS4 on the 3GS - while verything has worked perfectly and I liek the new fixes in the iPod, the folder etc...all of my old photos in the "library" (ie not those taken with the phone camera) have lost their quality and become slightly pixelated.



I read somewhere that happened to a couple of 3GS owners. Nothing like  that has happened to me, reckon I must be one a few who've had no real problems since upgrading to iOS4...


----------



## sim667 (Jun 25, 2010)

how the fuck can you lot argue about a phone so much?

You either like it or dont, if you dont, buy something else......


----------



## Cid (Jun 25, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> mines been dropping calls all yesterday I assumed that the network was also somewhat overloaded until i swapped the sim back to my old iphone and it worked perfectly...
> 
> not happy will be seeing what O2 intend to do about it as the phone part of the phone doesn't work.
> 
> I'm expecting that there'll be enough of a user problem to force a recall or like nintendo and the wii-mote they'll force apple to issue protective covers or face a class action suit in the states.



You sure it just hasn't activated yet? Presuming by swapping your sim you mean using your old one (since the iphone 4 doesn't take the same kind of sim)... If that's the case that would be the problem, your old sim will stop working when the new phone is activated.

Everything works fine on mine, but took a while for them to connect it to the network. 

Haven't used it much yet, but like the improvement in the camera... It's actually somewhat useful for me now. Generally a nice design, not entirely sure it's worth it, but does seem to offer some significant improvements over my 3G that iOS 4 wouldn't have done (never had a 3GS).


----------



## Gromit (Jun 25, 2010)

themonkeyman said:


> yeah, buy a bumper.
> 
> How about testing a mass consumer product properly before it is launched to the market.
> 
> That's poor from Apple, poor.


 
They did test them, in the real world, but if we remember the Gizmodo report...

They encased the phones in casing that made it look like a 3Gs phone so that people wouldn't realise that person using over a phone over there is in fact using an unreleased product in a live environment.

The casing hid the flaw from the testers.

They have my sympathies because if they tested the phone in the wild undisguised then details would have been leaked even earlier.


----------



## grit (Jun 25, 2010)

Gromit said:


> The casing hid the flaw from the testers.



Thats ridiculous, I'd nearly go to say as far as not possible. Its far more likely a manufacturing fault.


----------



## g force (Jun 25, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I read somewhere that happened to a couple of 3GS owners. Nothing like  that has happened to me, reckon I must be one a few who've had no real problems since upgrading to iOS4...



Yeah I mean it's a slight annoyance that requires me synching to another photo album i'll create in iPhoto. The rest of the OS improvements are great


----------



## elbows (Jun 25, 2010)

grit said:


> Thats ridiculous, I'd nearly go to say as far as not possible. Its far more likely a manufacturing fault.



Given that cases do workaround the fault, why do you think it is ridiculous?


----------



## Gromit (Jun 25, 2010)

grit said:


> Thats ridiculous, I'd nearly go to say as far as not possible. Its far more likely a manufacturing fault.


 
It acted like the bumpers that everyone else is recommending to circumvent the problem.

Manufacturing fault?

Apple designed it so gap would be top right not bottom left and the stupid chinese got it wrong. You could be right.

I'm thinking that its more likely a design fault though. Typical designer thinking about what looks pretty and not thinking how will this work in practice.

We'll have the aerial wrapped around the edge, its not like people hold their phones in such a way that they'll touch it, duh!


----------



## elbows (Jun 25, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Apple designed it so gap would be top right not bottom left and the stupid chinese got it wrong. You could be right.



Thats not very likely. Chinese manufacturers are going to work to Apples designs, not get things upside-down. 

There is either a manufacturing/assembly flaw that only affects some models, or else it is a general Apple design fault rather than a Chinese booboo.

Also:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/25/iphone-4-antenna-woes-contextualized-by-dude-in-the-know/



> Spencer Webb runs AntennaSys, a company that designs tailormade RF solutions, and has himself worked on making quad-band transceivers for AT&T. As he tells it, almost all phone makers have now transitioned to locating their antennae at the bottom of the phones. This has been in order to move radio wave emissions away from the head (a shortcoming that a top-mounted aerial would incur), which the FCC has been quite demanding about with its SAR standards


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 25, 2010)

elbows said:


> Thats not very likely. Chinese manufacturers are going to work to Apples designs, not get things upside-down.



He was joking, I think.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 25, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> He was joking, I think.


 
Well sarcasm. The lowest form of wit rather than an actual joke.


----------



## elbows (Jun 25, 2010)

Oops I hadnt got my sarcasm radar turned on, or my hand was interfering with this part of my brain as I held it in my hands.


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

"Don't upgrade your iPhone 3G to iOS 4" says tech site
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone.../don-t-upgrade-your-iphone-3g-to-ios-4-698990


----------



## grit (Jun 25, 2010)

Gromit said:


> It acted like the bumpers that everyone else is recommending to circumvent the problem.
> 
> Manufacturing fault?
> 
> ...



that would have been caught by QA


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 25, 2010)

I'm at the Regent Street store about to buy a bumper to counteract the areial issue, had a whine about it with the assistant and they gave me it for FREE!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 25, 2010)

editor said:


> "Don't upgrade your iPhone 3G to iOS 4" says tech sitehttp://www.techradar.com/news/phone.../don-t-upgrade-your-iphone-3g-to-ios-4-698990


But they do it anyway:


> As I write this I'm upgrading my wife's iPhone 3G to iOS 4


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 25, 2010)

Ooh, I made it do the signal dropping thing. If you cup it tightly in your left hand and press the fleshy bit of your palm/thumb into the black strip on the side it does indeed drop signal.

It doesn't do it when I'm on a call, because I don't hold the phone in the specific way required to get it to drop signal, so it's not really a problem for me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2010)

g force said:


> Yeah I mean it's a slight annoyance that requires me synching to another photo album i'll create in iPhoto. The rest of the OS improvements are great



Yep I wise they'd sort it out. I'm hoping for things like Flixster having cinema bookings which then add straight to your calendar too.


----------



## live_jayeola (Jun 25, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Ooh, I made it do the signal dropping thing. If you cup it tightly in your left hand and press the fleshy bit of your palm/thumb into the black strip on the side it does indeed drop signal.
> 
> It doesn't do it when I'm on a call, because I don't hold the phone in the specific way required to get it to drop signal, so it's not really a problem for me.



Steve says that you are holding it wrong!
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/apple-responds-over-iphone-4-reception-issues-youre-holding-th/


----------



## grit (Jun 25, 2010)

live_jayeola said:


> Steve says that you are holding it wrong!
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/24/apple-responds-over-iphone-4-reception-issues-youre-holding-th/



Its a disgrace of a response to users, I'm so fucking glad I didnt cave at the last minute.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2010)

They fucking knew about it too with the release of those stupid band 'covers' for it...


----------



## grit (Jun 25, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They fucking knew about it too with the release of those stupid band 'covers' for it...



I dont follow, was there apple covers at launch to resolve the issue?


----------



## elbows (Jun 25, 2010)

I doubt the covers were a response to the issue.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 25, 2010)

editor said:


> "Don't upgrade your iPhone 3G to iOS 4" says tech site
> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone.../don-t-upgrade-your-iphone-3g-to-ios-4-698990



Yeah, I'm not gonna bother.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 25, 2010)

Just done the speedtest.net test on 3g with full signal bars and then reduced signal bars and it made no difference to connection speed, 2Mb up and down.

Also made a couple of calls with reduced signal bars and no change in call quality and no dropout. Obviously this isn't an extensive sample of calls.

I really have to grasp it in my fist like an ape to get it to do it - it's just not how I hold my phone. When I'm using any apps or whatever I hold it in my right hand and prod at it with my left fingers.

Pretty much a non issue for me. It wouldn't put me off buying one, but then I'm bound to say that.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 25, 2010)

elbows said:


> I doubt the covers were a response to the issue.


 
Bumpers rather than covers. However I tend to agree, even though they are a bit out of the norm I see them as a solution to protect what Apple is claiming the only vulnerable part of the phone now. The glass is supposed to be uber tough but the metal strip is the most likely part to impact the ground if the phone is dropped.


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> But they do it anyway:


Yes. It seems that he's happy to  "suffer a slower phone" in order to have the new features.

I don't think I'd bother myself (if I still had an iPhone). I know memespring's phone was markedly slower in some respects after the 'upgrade'.


elbows said:


> I doubt the covers were a response to the issue.


You're probably right but it did strike me as a slightly unusual official accessory for the launch.


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

There could be mileage  in the suggestion that the bands are an acknowledgement by Apple that there is a problem:


> Or, in Apple's official statement - which is only being passed out to news organisations which ask for a statement on the problem, rather than sent out (as happens with iPad or iPhone sales figures): "Gripping any phone will result in some attenuation of its antenna performance with certain places being worse than others depending on the placement of the antennas. This is a fact of life for every wireless phone. If you ever experience this on your Phone 4, avoid gripping it in the lower left corner in a way that covers both sides of the black strip in the metal band, or simply use one of many available cases."
> 
> The problem emerged within hours of the first iPhone 4 devices being delivered to customers in the US, with dozens posting videos to YouTube showing mobile reception dropping off dramatically when they picked up the phone. Some users wondered why Apple had not spotted the problem during its testing of the iPhone 4 before its launch, and wondered whether the £25 "bumpers" that Apple sells to go around the casing - and protect the metal antennas - was an implicit acknowledgement of the problem. Apple had no comment on Friday on whether it had discovered the problem during testing, or only after the phone went on sale.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/jun/25/iphone-reception-problems-solved


Perhaps they should give away those bumpers for free - but them I guess it won't look quite so stylish.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 25, 2010)

editor said:


> Perhaps they should give away those bumpers for free - but them I guess it won't look quite so stylish.


I got one for free today after making a complaint the thing has solved my ariel problems and it kind of looks OK.


----------



## grit (Jun 25, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> I got one for free today after making a complaint the thing has solved my ariel problems and it kind of looks OK.



I'd go fucking spare at them if they tried to charge for the cover to fix that problem.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 25, 2010)

grit said:


> I'd go fucking spare at them if they tried to charge for the cover to fix that problem.


There were lots of people buying them though. I think I was lucky getting the assistant I got, after hearing me whine for two minutes he put it through the till as a credit. Didn't ask to see my phone or a receipt.


----------



## WWWeed (Jun 25, 2010)

grit said:


> I'd go fucking spare at them if they tried to charge for the cover to fix that problem.



Too right! It looks like this reception problem is quite bad!

Look at this video my mate made:


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 25, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> Too right! It looks like this reception problem is quite bad!
> 
> Look at this video my mate made:



Mine's nowhere near as bad as that. I can't get it to do it again now.


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 25, 2010)

Yeah, just tried for 5 minutes and I can't get the signal to drop at all now.


----------



## editor (Jun 25, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> Too right! It looks like this reception problem is quite bad!
> 
> Look at this video my mate made:


That's pretty dramatically shit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 25, 2010)

You have a 3GS?


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 26, 2010)

editor said:


> Indeed. But there again, the Guardian have a nice cosy little relationship going with Apple, as commented on in Private Eye this week.



Would like to see that piece, but can't find it.
The CiF lot are getting increasingly very pissed off with the paper's absolute silence/refusal on disclosing the exact nature of the love in with Apple.


----------



## WWWeed (Jun 26, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Yeah, just tried for 5 minutes and I can't get the signal to drop at all now.



It seems to effect all iphone 4s

the antennae are not being blocked by a mass of flesh and bone (head/hand) - it's just a small electrically conductive object that is connecting the two antennae segments together. And when you have a sweaty hand holding the phone in that area I'm pretty sure it will do a fairly passable impression of an electrical conductor.

The head and hands do block the radio signals on all phones, this is true, however the iPhone 4 is the only one designed with the metal aerials on the outside. The bluster from Apple about hands blocking the signal is pure smoke screen - it's not the problem, the design is the problem.

However some lacquer on the exterior of the antennae would solve the problem - nail varnish would also do the job for those already with an iPhone 4 - in which case this problem should be addressed as a manufacturing flaw/defect.

Just look at this youtube video where this guy demonstratives this issue with a key:


This guy reckons he has tried it on half a dosen handsets and they all have this problem........


----------



## ovaltina (Jun 26, 2010)

They're going to have to find a slogan to replace 'it just works'.


----------



## Callum91 (Jun 26, 2010)

Why would anyone want to put nail varnish on their expensive , shiny new phone?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 26, 2010)

my boss keeps sending me anti andriod stories*


but then again he does own apple shares


* ok not quite  but there is an agenda there


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 26, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> It seems to effect all iphone 4s
> 
> the antennae are not being blocked by a mass of flesh and bone (head/hand) - it's just a small electrically conductive object that is connecting the two antennae segments together. And when you have a sweaty hand holding the phone in that area I'm pretty sure it will do a fairly passable impression of an electrical conductor.
> 
> ...




Mine does do it, see earlier in the thread, just I couldn't get it to do it last night. And even when it does do it, it's making no difference to my 3g connection speed or call quality.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 26, 2010)

Mine is still doing it despite the bumper, though only on extended calls - I think there's something going on with o2's signal too (I have a mate on orange and he has no problems).

Despite the hassle, it's a really impressive bit of kit and there's no way I want to return it


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 26, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Yeah, I'm not gonna bother.



i upgraded and i really like the folders things.

Two of my apps just won't work though but they were shit apps anyway so i replaced the crappy ITV World Cup one with SSN and I never listened to XFM much anyway.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 26, 2010)

So far only two apps aren't working but updates will sort that I reckon. iOS4 runs very nicely on my 3GS...


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 27, 2010)

Jobs says "We may have to recall the new iPhone"

Daily Fail


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 27, 2010)

twistedAM said:


> i upgraded and i really like the folders things.



I've had the folders thing, but better, for ages 'cos I jailbroke my phone.

The only feature that jailbreaking hasn't offered (but better) for time is unified inbox. But then I want to keep work and personal separate anyway.


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 27, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Jobs says "We may have to recall the new iPhone"
> 
> Daily Fail



That was posted on a fake Steve Jobs Twitter account. 

Apple are still refusing to address the issue.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 27, 2010)

maldwyn said:
			
		

> That was posted on a fake Steve Jobs Twitter account.



Excellent!
Good to see the Fail keeping it's journalistic standards so high


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 27, 2010)

twistedAM said:


> i upgraded and i really like the folders things.
> 
> Two of my apps just won't work though but they were shit apps anyway so i replaced the crappy ITV World Cup one with SSN and I never listened to XFM much anyway.



They've updated the ITV app to work with os4 now.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 27, 2010)

Pie 1 said:


> Would like to see that piece, but can't find it.
> The CiF lot are getting increasingly very pissed off with the paper's absolute silence/refusal on disclosing the exact nature of the love in with Apple.



iTOLD YOU SO
"We have no commercial arrangement with Apple other than as a registered app developer like many others."  So a spokeswoman for the Guarniad assured the Eye a fortnight ago, when we asked about the paper's endless column inches devoted to the iPad and the prominent use of its website in Apple's own billboard advertising campaign for the new gadget.

Curious then, that just days after we were told this, the Guardian's director of consumer media Adam Freeman invited all editorial staff to "an informal update on recent marketing activity across the Guardian and Observer" at which he primised to fill them in on how "over recent months we have seen increased marketing activity during the election, in partnership with Apple and Nike, and of course our own campaign in preparation for the World Cup."

Good job my copytyping skills are up to scratch!  You're welcome.


----------



## editor (Jun 27, 2010)

I had a play with an iPhone 4 over the weekend. 

I like the redesign a lot (although it curiously makes it feel a bit chunkier in the hand than the 3GS) and the new screen was very nice - but nowhere near nice as I was expecting. Maybe that's because I've got used to the HTC Desire's screen? 

The camera was a huge improvement on the 3GS - the LED light is a *massive* improvement - but, again, there didn't seem much difference in quality to my HTC and I'm not sure if I'd be rushing out to upgrade if I still had my iPhone.

Oh, and I had no problem reproducing the dodgy antennae issue, and that was when handling the phone in a normal way.


----------



## RaverDrew (Jun 27, 2010)




----------



## Callum91 (Jun 27, 2010)

editor said:


> I had a play with an iPhone 4 over the weekend.
> 
> I like the redesign a lot (although it curiously makes it feel a bit chunkier in the hand than the 3GS) and the new screen was very nice - but nowhere near nice as I was expecting. Maybe that's because I've got used to the HTC Desire's screen?
> 
> ...



I had a play with one in an O2 store today and I have to agree with you there Ed , the screen is nice but nowhere near as ''revolutionary'' as I was expecting ( plus at arms length you can't really tell , I had to get about 3 inches from the screen and got a weird look from the sales assistant ).


----------



## DG55 (Jun 28, 2010)

Hate the new design, looks unfinished on the edge, like its missing something, like the edges have fallen off.

Wait, it is missing something, the _bumper_, which by design it does not function without. Then charge you £25 for the privilege.

What the fuck.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 28, 2010)

OMG YOU CAN'T USE THE IPHONE 4 BECAUSE IT SAID IT IN ENGADGET

and also it looks shit because of something I made up after I saw that thing in the press




yeah


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> OMG YOU CAN'T USE THE IPHONE 4 BECAUSE IT SAID IT IN ENGADGET
> 
> and also it looks shit because of something I made up after I saw that thing in the press
> 
> ...



well here's my quick 30 second review.

O2 are a pack of cunts who've royally fucked up my order and not sorted out my second handset, however it does allow a like for like comparison here goes...

on the subject of the phone it has less signal compared to the 3 g in a side by side comparison in my flat it cuts off calls all to readily as I've done several times now but more importantly than any of this no one can hear me on the fucker at all even the cretinous O2.

Equally apple have missed a massive trick with this phone making the upgrade procedure so simples.  As a result all that happens is that you upgrade restore your old phone to it and then oh wait it's now just my old phone with a touch more real time speed and a little nicer screen and camera... 

other than the design which is monumentally flawed as has been discussed it's just your old phone in a new case.  All the usual new tech joy is then superseded by the but it's not actually that different...  in fact it's pretty much the same...

I give it 9 months before they release a 4 S which has a revised antenna and also change the mic inputs to make it work as a phone...


----------



## Pie 1 (Jun 28, 2010)

dogmatique said:


> Good job my copytyping skills are up to scratch!  You're welcome.



Cheers


----------



## Winot (Jun 28, 2010)

In other news, I have just discovered what I suppose I should have guessed, namely that the new iPhone doesn't fit in the old iPhone dock


----------



## Callum91 (Jun 28, 2010)

Winot said:


> In other news, I have just discovered what I suppose I should have guessed, namely that the new iPhone doesn't fit in the old iPhone dock



Shock horror. I'm surprised Apple didn't invent their own brand of electricity to charge the damn thing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 28, 2010)

Not even really sure what I was on about there to be quite honest.

I'm finding that my phone is turning itself off with a much higher battery life than it used to with OS4. Before you could keep going down to just a few percent. Now, around 20%, bang that's your lot. Which is annoying.


----------



## grit (Jun 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Not even really sure what I was on about there to be quite honest.
> 
> I'm finding that my phone is turning itself off with a much higher battery life than it used to with OS4. Before you could keep going down to just a few percent. Now, around 20%, bang that's your lot. Which is annoying.



Condition the battery.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Jun 28, 2010)

Winot said:


> In other news, I have just discovered what I suppose I should have guessed, namely that the new iPhone doesn't fit in the old iPhone dock



now this really annoys me - I just bought a new panasonic shaver that is a mild upgrade to the previous model..and the charger is exactly the same - apart from a stupid new flange to stop me using the old one... grrrrr

given that you get a new charger with the new shaver - and they aren't interested in selling spare chargers - can anyone explain what advantage this kind of behaviour has for manufacturers?

At least my macbook/and pro chargers all work with each other


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 28, 2010)

grit said:


> Condition the battery.



You can't condition a lithium battery.... why it works on the Desire I don't know.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 28, 2010)

It occurred immediately after upgrading to OS4, and it never happened before OS4. Which means one or more of:

1. OS4 deliberately turns the battery off much earlier than 3 did;
2. OS4 is reporting my battery % wrong, and is showing 20% when actually it should be 1%, but legitimately turning the phone off when it's nearly out of charge (seems unlikely as it takes about the same time to get down to 20% as before);
3. OS3 was showing my battery % wrong, and both OS versions try to turn the phone off when it has low but not almost zero charge (seems very unlikely as there are two low battery alerts, one at 20% and one at 10%);
4. I dunno, some weird bug or something.

I could do a software restore from before upgrading I suppose but that would be a pain.


----------



## grit (Jun 28, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> You can't condition a lithium battery.... why it works on the Desire I don't know.



Its probably not actually the battery thats being conditioned but the old thing of doing full charges and completely emptying the battery (several times in a row), provides a far more accurate read on battery state that might help resolve the issue.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 28, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It occurred immediately after upgrading to OS4, and it never happened before OS4. Which means one or more of:
> 
> 1. OS4 deliberately turns the battery off much earlier than 3 did;
> 2. OS4 is reporting my battery % wrong, and is showing 20% when actually it should be 1%, but legitimately turning the phone off when it's nearly out of charge (seems unlikely as it takes about the same time to get down to 20% as before);
> ...


the 4 has significantly less battery life than the 3g as well... 1 call longer than 10 mins will trash the battery to buggery too...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 28, 2010)

What you changing it for, then?


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 28, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> the 4 has significantly less battery life than the 3g as well... 1 call longer than 10 mins will trash the battery to buggery too...


Really? I'm only needing to charge my iP4 once every two days. whereas my 3gs was once a day.


----------



## dogmatique (Jun 28, 2010)

General opinion seems to be that the iphone 4 battery is about 20% better than the 3GS...  Only going on anecdotal evidence though...


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2010)

dogmatique said:


> General opinion seems to be that the iphone 4 battery is about 20% better than the 3GS...  Only going on anecdotal evidence though...


Well it's physically 16% bigger so that would be about right.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 28, 2010)

The question is then how much more power it uses. I'd not expect that to be 20% though to be fair, unless you use the flash a lot.


----------



## Callum91 (Jun 28, 2010)

If the battery is 16% bigger and it uses 20% more power , what's the point in it?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 28, 2010)

Callum91 said:


> If the battery is 16% bigger and it uses 20% more power , what's the point in it?



To keep battery life roughly in line with the 3GS, obviously.


----------



## Callum91 (Jun 28, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> To keep battery life roughly in line with the 3GS, obviously.



Why not just get a 3GS then? The iPhone 4 is hardly ''revolutionary'' enough to really warrant an upgrade. Retina is nice but not THAT nice.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jun 28, 2010)

Callum91 said:


> Why not just get a 3GS then? The iPhone 4 is hardly ''revolutionary'' enough to really warrant an upgrade. Retina is nice but not THAT nice.



Well, that's a fair point, but the 4G was never sold on superior battery life.


----------



## Callum91 (Jun 28, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Well, that's a fair point, but the 4G was never sold on superior battery life.



What is it sold on then? Personally I'm struggling to see what Apple were really wanting to achieve with the iPhone 4. Seems a tad rushed.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 28, 2010)

There's a lot more difference between the 4 and the 3GS than there was between the 3GS and the 3G. I'd definitely go for one were I in the position of buying a new phone.


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2010)

The inevitable class action lawsuit seems to rumbling on the horizon in the US. Is there _nothing _they won't try and sue for over there?
http://mashable.com/2010/06/28/iphone-4-lawsuit


----------



## maldwyn (Jun 29, 2010)

editor said:


> The inevitable class action lawsuit seems to rumbling on the horizon in the US. Is there _nothing _they won't try and sue for over there?
> http://mashable.com/2010/06/28/iphone-4-lawsuit


Perhaps they don't have the 14 day no quibble return like wot we do.


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2010)

Looks like there might be issues with the proximity sensor too:

"Another Apple iPhone 4 flaw: A glitchy proximity sensor
Many users report the new handset's proximity sensor is causing the screen to activate during phone calls."
http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?olo=rss&NewsID=3228505

Apple thread: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2475509&start=0&tstart=0


> So glad I found this thread. I thought I was going crazy. In a 20 min call to my parents I muted them twice, initiated Facetime once, started dialing other numbers numerous times and hung up on them twice. Thank goodness they were understanding.
> 
> My ear has initiated some "feature" in every call I have made so far. While I love the capabilities the apps give me, I bought this primarily as a phone and it isn't cutting it. I have tried resetting the phone and that didn't change anything


----------



## Callum91 (Jun 29, 2010)

editor said:


> Looks like there might be issues with the proximity sensor too:
> 
> "Another Apple iPhone 4 flaw: A glitchy proximity sensor
> Many users report the new handset's proximity sensor is causing the screen to activate during phone calls."
> ...



Glad I chose to go for the HTC Desire. All praise Android!


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 29, 2010)

Hasn't done the proximity thing to me at all.

Thought I had a problem with Wi-Fi speed this morning, I was getting 512Kb where as the wife was getting 7800Kb on her 3GS. But, at work the speed is fine. I think it's more than likely my o2 router playing silly buggers.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 29, 2010)

I am spending too much time playing Godfinger


----------



## Sunray (Jun 29, 2010)

editor said:


> I had a play with an iPhone 4 over the weekend.
> 
> I like the redesign a lot (although it curiously makes it feel a bit chunkier in the hand than the 3GS) and the new screen was very nice - but nowhere near nice as I was expecting. Maybe that's because I've got used to the HTC Desire's screen?
> 
> ...



That display will only make a difference for applications that use it.  Its precisely double the resolution because it allows existing applications to work.

The biggest thing for me as a 3G owner is the improved speed.  The 3G is quite slow.

This also sounds like the 3G release all over again, annoying issues here and there.  The sorted them out in a few months.

I can't get one for the time being, my 3G is just fine as it is, so I'll leave v3 on it till some of the issues get ironed out.


----------



## editor (Jun 30, 2010)

It won't be online for long, but the inevitable 'Hitler Reacts to the iPhone 4 Antenna Issues' video has been released. 
It's quite a funny one too: 

Here's what's claimed to be the official line about the exact procedures AppleCare reps must follow when dealing with any reception complaints regarding the iPhone 4:
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010...-iphone-4-antenna-troubleshooting-procedures/

And it looks like no more free bumpers:


> Interestingly, they agree that bumpers might fix the problem, but they're emphatic in saying that they "ARE NOT appeasing customers with free bumpers – DON'T promise a free bumper to customers." And yes, that statement is complete with caps and bold in the source document, so they mean business, it would seem.
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/29/apple-telling-reps-to-smooth-over-iphone-4-reception-complaints/


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 30, 2010)

Mine'll be here Friday. Yay.


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 30, 2010)




----------



## WWWeed (Jun 30, 2010)

editor said:


> Here's what's claimed to be the official line about the exact procedures AppleCare reps must follow when dealing with any reception complaints regarding the iPhone 4:
> http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010...-iphone-4-antenna-troubleshooting-procedures/
> 
> And it looks like no more free bumpers:



If that is true then that is outrageous! 

I swear this is starting to get ridiculous now.



> FRUIT LOGO TOYMAKER Apple's Iphone for right-handed people seems to have yet another flaw.
> 
> Apparently coming up with a phone that disconnects you from your provider when you use it in your left hand is not enough. It seems that Apple's geniuses forgot to test the Imovie software.
> 
> ...



taken from http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/1719875/another-iphone


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jun 30, 2010)

I wonder if the web editor for that site ever reads El Reg...


----------



## editor (Jun 30, 2010)

Apple hiring iPhone antenna engineers for some reason
http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/30/apple-hiring-iphone-antenna-engineers-for-some-reason/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 30, 2010)

Heh I'm glad I decided to wait till December before upgrading...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 30, 2010)

editor said:


> Apple hiring iPhone antenna engineers for some reason
> http://www.engadget.com/2010/06/30/apple-hiring-iphone-antenna-engineers-for-some-reason/



Considering you've been able to touch radio or tv antennas for decades and affect signal, I'm surprised at peoples surprise...


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Considering you've been able to touch radio or tv antennas for decades and affect signal, I'm surprised at peoples surprise...


I think people are more surprised that a company as big as Apple should make such a schoolboy error, to be honest.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 1, 2010)

editor said:


> I think people are more surprised that a company as big as Apple should make such a schoolboy error, to be honest.



True. I've held off so far but played with a few and not been able to re-create it, so mine now arrives tomorrow... I'll keep you updated. (I'm left handed )


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

Kanda said:


> True. I've held off so far but played with a few and not been able to re-create it, so mine now arrives tomorrow... I'll keep you updated. (I'm left handed )


I had a go on an iPhone 4 on the weekend and had no problem recreating the problem.

I don't think it's a deal-buster though - if I really wanted a new iPhone I'd still go out and buy one and maybe fork out for one of those daft 'bumpers' -  although I'd probably be a little bit miffed by Steve Jobs' arrogant attitude over the whole thing.

But Apple fans tend to be a forgiving lot anyway so I doubt if it's going to affect sales too much regardless.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 1, 2010)

Jobs is best ignored.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 1, 2010)

A decent article worth reading on AnandTech here regarding the antenna _hysteria_.

First film shot & edited on iPhone 4  (not bad)


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

Interesting piece from a bloke in Cardiff University that seems to further expose the dodginess of Apple's policy of denying there's a problem:


> Richard Gaywood—Ph.D in wireless network planning from Cardiff University—has tested the iPhone 4 communications problem. Before, he thought there were no problems. Now, his conclusion is clear: "The iPhone 4 is a fantastic device but a lousy phone."
> 
> ...The resulting data was clear under both situations: There is a performance penalty when you hold your iPhone with your bare hand, independently of the bars displayed. When the signal is very strong, the impact is less noticeable. When the signal is weaker (chart above), the problem could stop communications altogether, like have been demonstrated already for both internet access and voice calls.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 1, 2010)

Ahh, I see the issue, because the aerial is metal, your hand is earthing the thing to some degree, thats why the bumper thing they offer works like it does.  I wonder if your choice of footwear has any bearing?

The solution is simple, just use the headphones and the problem goes away.  I generally do over holding it anyway.


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 1, 2010)

Fixed my slow wifi problem by switching my router to work in g mode rather than b/g/n - probably a software problem on the iphone, but the workaround is fine for me as all my wireless devices are g anyway. e2a I guess it could also be a problem with the o2 wireless iii router.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 1, 2010)

Decision time:

Do I return my IP4 (within the no quibble return 14 day window) get a refund and wait for iP4s or go for a replacement in the hope it solves my aerial issues (unlikely as it's probably a design issue).

I'm using the bumper and it seems to help if I have a strong signal to start with, but anything less than 3 bars and I'm still cut off.

I text a lot so restricting myself to headphones isn't a solution.

The person I call the most also has an iP4 so unless we both are holding our phones correctly it's double the chance of being disconnected. 

Apple's silence on the issue isn't helping. 

Oh, the angst of it


----------



## Sunray (Jul 1, 2010)

I wonder if they will spray the metal band with a glossy plastic or something like that?

I'm sticking with my v3 OS 3G for the time being, its rock solid.


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

Sunray said:


> The solution is simple, just use the headphones and the problem goes away.


That's not a practical solution - that's a ridiculous bodge for the vast majority of users who don't use headphones, nor want to have to stick them on just to make a ruddy call.

Meanwhile, the first of the inevitable class action suits has been filed against Apple in the US:  http://gizmodo.com/5577010/


----------



## g force (Jul 1, 2010)

I was tempted to upgrade early but TBH OS4 on my 3GS is working just fine and improved minor niggles so I think i'll stick with it until my contract is up then see what's available (Apple and non-Apple).


----------



## sim667 (Jul 1, 2010)

I spoke to someone who works at apple, and there's rumours of a recall......


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> I spoke to someone who works at apple, and there's rumours of a recall......


I'd be amazed if that happens. 
It would be a total PR disaster for Apple.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 1, 2010)

and damn expensive to boot.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 1, 2010)

first rule of apple, never admit to a mistake.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> I spoke to someone who works at apple, and there's rumours of a recall......



Can't see this....

Daily Mail fooled by fake Steve Jobs tweet on iPhone 4 recall


----------



## Ranbay (Jul 1, 2010)

just had a go on one... rather nice and quick etc.. the folders are cool...

wont be getting one tho.... sticking with my 3G as it's jailborked etc...


----------



## revol68 (Jul 1, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Decision time:
> 
> Do I return my IP4 (within the no quibble return 14 day window) get a refund and wait for iP4s or go for a replacement in the hope it solves my aerial issues (unlikely as it's probably a design issue).
> 
> ...



Why not stop being an Apple wanker, take refund and get yourself a HTC desire or Samsung galaxy s for much cheaper and on a better contract?


----------



## sim667 (Jul 1, 2010)

editor said:


> I'd be amazed if that happens.
> It would be a total PR disaster for Apple.



I'd be surprised too..... tbh

the logistics of recalling that many units would be insane


----------



## Gromit (Jul 1, 2010)

Well I'm still arguing the toss with HTC over my broken phone (after only 1 month). I contacted them first on the 17th and am still waiting for a resolution.

My collegue has also had problems with hers where it won't charge via the cable.

All this has made me wish I'd stuck with Apple despite the iPhone 4's reported issues.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 1, 2010)

revol68 said:


> Why not stop being an Apple wanker, take refund and get yourself a HTC desire or Samsung galaxy s for much cheaper and on a better contract?


I like the Android platform and the HTC Desire looks to be a good phone - it's not massively cheaper (£100?) and at the moment I'm contract phobic.

The reason I'm such a "Apple wanker" is their accessibility - in my case, I'm partially sighted - few companies can match them on this.

I actually really like the iP4 and as a device it's ace, but it's actually a phone I need and on that score, at the moment, it's simply not delivering.


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

Gromit said:


> My collegue has also had problems with hers where it won't charge via the cable.


Does it charge from the mains charger? If so, it's most likely the PC at fault.

(Please respond in the HTC Desire thread to avoid going too far off topic here!)


----------



## Winot (Jul 1, 2010)

Winot said:


> In other news, I have just discovered what I suppose I should have guessed, namely that the new iPhone doesn't fit in the old iPhone dock



Turns out the iPhone 4 fits nicely in my old white iPod charger.  I get a notification saying that it's not optimised for the iPhone and there may be cellular interference etc. but I think I can live with that.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 1, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> The reason I'm such a "Apple wanker" is their accessibility - in my case, I'm partially sighted - few companies can match them on this.



There's a zoom function on the iphone if you do a treble fingered tap or something isnt there?

I remember doing it toe mine by mistake, then not knowing how to get it out of zoom.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> There's a zoom function on the iphone if you do a treble fingered tap or something isnt there?


yeah, that's one of the features. 
http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 1, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> I like the Android platform and the HTC Desire looks to be a good phone - it's not massively cheaper (£100?) and at the moment I'm contract phobic.
> 
> The reason I'm such a "Apple wanker" is their accessibility - in my case, I'm partially sighted - few companies can match them on this.
> 
> I actually really like the iP4 and as a device it's ace, but it's actually a phone I need and on that score, at the moment, it's simply not delivering.



Sorry if I've missed this elsewhere in the thread, but is it still cutting out while using a bumper? 

It is mind-boggling this issue wasn't flagged up as a potential problem before release. Apple might inspire tribalism from some, but at the end of the day the power of consumers comes from their loyalty to their own purchasing power first and foremost. The media and more outspoken and loud consumers can turn on companies, and Apple would be shortsighted to not realise this. They are not made of teflon, even if they have proven to be more non-stick than other companies in the past. 

I've still got one on order, not due to come for another 2 weeks. There are still thousands of very happy customers. Best thing to do is keep your ear to the ground and stay informed if you're thinking of getting one. 

(Incidentally, I'd ordered a bumper when I placed my original order, simply because I always buy a case to protect my phones. So if it also fixes this reception issue, I don't feel out of sorts that I've been forced to spend extra money.)


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 1, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Sorry if I've missed this elsewhere in the thread, but is it still cutting out while using a bumper?


Even with the bumper It helps if you have a strong signal, anything less than 3 bars and I still lose service.

I got a free bumper from the Regent Street store on the 25th June - just by whining at the till, asking why do I need this to make the phone work properly, who I should contact for a refund, etc.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 1, 2010)

Gromit said:


> Well I'm still arguing the toss with HTC over my broken phone (after only 1 month). I contacted them first on the 17th and am still waiting for a resolution.
> 
> My collegue has also had problems with hers where it won't charge via the cable.
> 
> All this has made me wish I'd stuck with Apple despite the iPhone 4's reported issues.



They may not charge of USB 1.1, probs only 2......


----------



## sim667 (Jul 1, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> yeah, that's one of the features.
> http://www.apple.com/accessibility/iphone/vision.html



It really fucking confused me for about 20 mins.....

I turned the phone off and on again iirc, before someone told me how to zoom and unzoom


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

If this is email exchange is the real thing, Steve Jobs sure seems to be coming over as incredibly arrogant:



> Original mail
> [Apple engineer name redacted],
> 
> When we spoke, you would not tell me that there is a fix for this phone?
> ...




http://gizmodo.com/5577316/steve-jobs-to-angry-iphone-4-user-relax-its-just-a-phone


----------



## Crispy (Jul 1, 2010)

editor said:


> Steve Jobs sure seems to be coming over as incredibly arrogant:



 Say it aint so!


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Say it aint so!


He's always been arrogant of course, but Apple usually manages this kind of thing much better - which kind of suggests that the phone really has shipped with a serious fault and he's not every good at admitting it and saying sorry.

Least that's how it reads to me.


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 1, 2010)

I don't believe that that exchange is real.


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> I don't believe that that exchange is real.


BGR think it is, and they're usually pretty reliable (but not infallible, obviously).



> We have verified the email headers and information, and believe this exchange to be 100% legitimate.



http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010...-steve-jobs-on-the-iphone-4-antenna-problems/


----------



## Kanda (Jul 1, 2010)

> *Our reader again:*
> Stop with jackass comments. I have has every iphone made. They all had a bad signal but this is the so much worse X3. The whole country is is in a “low signal strength” in reality… all but apple campus and your house it seems? AT&T maps are a joke. I am in “excellent” to “good” coverage and on my iPhone 1, Iphone 3G, and my iPhone 3Gs, I could  at least make a telephone call. After all, it is a phone. Iphone 4…. 5 bars….. touch the phone… ZERO bars call drops.
> Steve. IT DOES NOT WORK! Geezzz I hope this this is not really you. Are we on a different MHz? I have yet to see an iPhone [4] work in Richmond when you hold it in your hand. It is not “isolated”. I was a big fan. But I am done.
> 
> ...



lol


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 1, 2010)

revol68 said:


> Why not stop being an Apple wanker, take refund and get yourself a HTC desire or Samsung galaxy s for much cheaper and on a better contract?



Because Android isn't yet as good as iPhone OS. I know, I had a Desire and swapped it for a 3GS as I much prefer it.


----------



## tarannau (Jul 1, 2010)

Weirdly fwiw, we've got plenty of iphone 4's being tested globally, with not one tester reporting this reception fault prior to this hoo-ha. 

Clearly a fault does exist and we can recreate the issue with a little effort, but there does seem to be more than a little hyperbole floating about. The testers and handful of early adopters I know seem happy enough. Difficult - amongst the usual near hysterical suspects - to sort the wood from the trees really.


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Because Android isn't yet as good as iPhone OS. I know, I had a Desire and swapped it for a 3GS as I much prefer it.


*cough!
I beg to differ, squire!


----------



## sim667 (Jul 1, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Weirdly fwiw, we've got plenty of iphone 4's being tested globally, with not one tester reporting this reception fault prior to this hoo-ha.
> 
> Clearly a fault does exist and we can recreate the issue with a little effort, but there does seem to be more than a little hyperbole floating about. The testers and handful of early adopters I know seem happy enough. Difficult - amongst the usual near hysterical suspects - to sort the wood from the trees really.



I was having a play with a couple of freinds iphones the other day, and on all of them i could only get the reception to drop if i bridge the gaps between all 3 antennae with my fingers....... tbh ive not seen many people in the UK complain about it at all.....

maybe its something to do with the american diet


----------



## Kanda (Jul 1, 2010)

editor said:


> *cough!
> I beg to differ, squire!



People having different opinions shocker...


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Clearly a fault does exist and we can recreate the issue with a little effort, but there does seem to be more than a little hyperbole floating about. The testers and handful of early adopters I know seem happy enough. Difficult - amongst the usual near hysterical suspects - to sort the wood from the trees really.


Have you tried it yourself? I had no problem recreating the error, and there certainly seems to be enough credible sources reporting the problem as being widespread, as well as several suitably qualified engineers identifying the design as the problem.


----------



## tarannau (Jul 1, 2010)

FWIW I can affect the signal on the iphone4s behind me, but no way can I get them to drop a call. <shrugs> 

We're in a good strength area admittedly, but maybe you need a combination of situation and ropey hardware.


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

Kanda said:


> People having different opinions shocker...


Pointless post is pointless post shocker.


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 1, 2010)

This Anandtech review of the iPhone is the best one I've read.
It has a really thorough investigation of the signal attenuation problems and explains why you don't see it so much in high signal areas and why the drop in signal bars is misleading.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 1, 2010)

editor said:


> *cough!
> I beg to differ, squire!



Now there's a shock.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 1, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Now there's a shock.



Before the ed-hate kicks in, it was a little joke between us as I swapped my Desire for his 3GS.


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Before the ed-hate kicks in, it was a little joke between us as I swapped my Desire for his 3GS.


Indeed. And it was a win-win all round as I wanted to get rid of the iPhone and you wanted to get rid of the HTC!


----------



## Sunray (Jul 2, 2010)

A lot of the US isn't in good signal strength due to its general size, so it may well be much more of a problem there than here.

I'll leave the people to suffer the problems, perhaps wait till next year when they will release a new re-engineered version without the issue.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 2, 2010)

Kanda said:


> People having different opinions shocker...



And on urban75 too, who'd thunk it!?


----------



## Kanda (Jul 2, 2010)

editor said:


> BGR think it is, and they're usually pretty reliable (but not infallible, obviously).
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010...-steve-jobs-on-the-iphone-4-antenna-problems/



Turns out it's fake.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 2, 2010)

My 3g has just moved to "No Service".

I'm guessing this means it's ready for the port.


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2010)

Yep. Mind you it's funny that people are now having trouble working out the real stroppy Jobs emails from the fake ones.

Engadget highest ranked  user comment: "So all the older snarkey, smug ones are [fake] too?"


----------



## internetstalker (Jul 2, 2010)

Had my iPhone a few weeks now

and have to say it's amazing


----------



## Kanda (Jul 2, 2010)

Software update for iPhone signal bar issues due: http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/02...th-display-issue-only-software-update-coming/



> We have discovered the cause of this dramatic drop in bars, and it is both simple and surprising.
> 
> Upon investigation, we were stunned to find that the formula we use to calculate how many bars of signal strength to display is totally wrong. Our formula, in many instances, mistakenly displays 2 more bars than it should for a given signal strength. For example, we sometimes display 4 bars when we should be displaying as few as 2 bars. Users observing a drop of several bars when they grip their iPhone in a certain way are most likely in an area with very weak signal strength, but they don’t know it because we are erroneously displaying 4 or 5 bars. Their big drop in bars is because their high bars were never real in the first place.


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Software update for iPhone signal bar issues due: http://www.macrumors.com/2010/07/02...th-display-issue-only-software-update-coming/


Engadget's response:



> Sure, the odd way Apple calculates bars has been noted  before, but what's troubling is that this is the second  time Apple has blamed signal  strengh / reception issues on software and it doesn't fully explain  calls dropping and data degradation when the iPhone 4 is held in a very  particular (but  common) way. It's also worth noting that Apple in no way admits to  an antenna design flaw.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 2, 2010)

What a bloody fudge.

Can you now explain to me why my 3Gs reads 5 five bars without dropping to "service not available" ?

Incidentally, my neighbour asked me if I had a new phone, she can he me shouting into iP4.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 2, 2010)

Mine is in my grubby little hands. 

I'm not going to activate it yet (work computer n'all that), but it's quite aesthetically pleasing.

Our network manager just managed to drop the box, spilling everything all over the floor. The look on his face was priceless.

Thankfully, I'm not going to kill him.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 2, 2010)

Mine arrived at home today, Moonpig is charging it for me.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 2, 2010)

Sweet. Hope she hasn't dropped it...


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2010)

Bah the thought did cross my mind earlier this week that they might release a software 'fix' that only addresses the bar display rather than actual reception issues. If Id posted this thought before the announcement then I would be able to tout my amazing powers of prediction.

I am finding it hard to judge quite how bad the signal issue is, I guess I will play a waiting game and see how much the dust settles before deciding whether to get one or not.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 2, 2010)

Mmmm


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2010)

Is anyone totally convinced by Apple's explanation?  CNet don't seem too impressed:


> So Apple's explanation--that it is changing the way it calculates the bars--is somewhat misleading. If calls are being dropped, then rejiggering the calculations for the display will not change the outcome of that event.
> 
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20009564-266.html


Neither are the lawyers doing that daft class action thang: http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/02/class-action-apple-iphone-4/

And Gizmodo have posted an article called: Why Apple's iPhone 4 Update Won't Fix Your Reception Problem
http://gizmodo.com/5577812/why-apples-iphone-4-update-wont-fix-your-reception-problem

That said, the iPhone 4 apparently works fantastically well when it does get a strong signal (and users aren't holding the phone the 'wrong' way, of course!).

I'd probably still get it if I was in the market for a new phone and had the dosh. I don't make that many calls, the screen looks ace, the camera a huge improvement and there's a load of very cool stuff on the phone, so I'd probably be happy to live with the compromise.

The handset does look lovely too, although I might worry about how fragile that glass is.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2010)

Isn't the glass supposed to be tougher than the last lot? Not sold on the idea of having it raised above the rest of the case, front and back, though.

I've dropped my 3G on concrete precisely once in the 18 mos I've had it. Luckily, it was in a case, so no damage done. It only comes out of its case at home, and even then not very often. I haven't seen one of those bumpers up close yet, so I'm not entirely sure it'll provide much protection (probably very little), but it'll do until more 3rd party cases make it onto the market.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 2, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Isn't the glass supposed to be tougher than the last lot? Not sold on the idea of having it raised above the rest of the case, front and back, though.



Hope so, because it seems to clatter on my earrings more than the last one...  

Two calls, so far. No signal problems. Must be holding it wrong.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Hope so, because it seems to clatter on my earrings more than the last one...
> 
> Two calls, so far. No signal problems. Must be holding it wrong.



You're not anyone these days unless you can 'recreate' the signal problem.


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> You're not anyone these days unless you can 'recreate' the signal problem.


It's not hard to do. Least not with my one go with the thing.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 2, 2010)

I'm not for a moment suggesting it doesn't happen.

But I think cos I hold the phone at the top, it won't be an issue. Not so far, anyway.

Very, very slick. My biggest single gripe from the 3g - the (total lack of) speed when hitting a search window, the keyboard appearing and then the letters showing up - is gone. Fast.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2010)

I've just 'practiced' holding my 3G, to see how I hold it. It seems I actually just press it against my ear by touching my fingers to the back of the case, with my right thumb approx. 1/3 of the way up the right side. Looks like I won't need my fingers amputating after all


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 2, 2010)

I did that last week.


----------



## yardbird (Jul 2, 2010)

First thing I'm not tech in any way.
I've got an HTC Touch HD
I also may have missed if anyone else has said this.

But a massive PR fuck up by Apple - no?


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2010)

I think I'd be more at risk of using the 'grip of death' if I was using the phone on hands free (which I do a lot).


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 2, 2010)

editor said:


> I think I'd be more at risk of using the 'grip of death' if I was using the phone on hands free (which I do a lot).



Yeah. I've not really done that much apps wise with it yet, but I can see that being different, because I'm fairly sure I hold it closer to the bottom.

Will report further, but I'm just basking for a moment.


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Yeah. I've not really done that much apps wise with it yet, but I can see that being different, because I'm fairly sure I hold it closer to the bottom.
> 
> Will report further, but I'm just basking for a moment.


Enjoy your new phone - you've got yourself a lovely handset!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2010)

If I was a left-handed texter I'd be covering The Spot of Doom™

But I'm not.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 2, 2010)

yardbird said:


> But a massive PR fuck up by Apple - no?


It's not so much a PR fuck up - something like 70% of people buying iP4 were already iPhone owners - it's more of a trust thing. What's the point of being an early-adopter if Apple won't acknowledge the problems being pointed out to them.


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> If I was a left-handed texter I'd be covering The Spot of Doom™
> 
> But I'm not.


Beware of the Antenna Of Angst! 

Watch out for Antennageddon!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2010)

editor said:


> Beware of the Antenna Of Angst!
> 
> Watch out for Antennageddon!





Not quite got the ring of 'hamdemic', though.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 3, 2010)

editor said:


> Beware of the Antenna Of Angst!
> 
> Watch out for Antennageddon!



:d


----------



## Kanda (Jul 3, 2010)

editor said:


> It's not hard to do. Least not with my one go with the thing.



Not managed it yet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 3, 2010)

Is the reception problem mostly hype?

http://bit.ly/cwV0W9

Wouldn't surprise me if it was tbh; there's nothing the anti apple brigade loves more than some 'killer defect' in an Apple product to bleat on about ad nauseam...


----------



## dlx1 (Jul 3, 2010)

As this is a iphone thread 

Does iphone resize a attached image send by email.
Or I have to send image less then 500px. 

Don't see why he don't use a laptop then a phone to read email. 

ta


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 3, 2010)

iOS4 gives you size options when emailing I believe...


----------



## sim667 (Jul 3, 2010)

Got a 4g today, liking it a lot, but tbf I have been using a nokia 3310 for the last month....

No obvious signal probs to report but it is in a case


----------



## revol68 (Jul 3, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is the reception problem mostly hype?
> 
> http://bit.ly/cwV0W9
> 
> Wouldn't surprise me if it was tbh; there's nothing the anti apple brigade loves more than some 'killer defect' in an Apple product to bleat on about ad nauseam...



the killer defect with Apple isn't anything technological it's their marketing and the type of cunts who buy their overpriced shit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 3, 2010)

revol68 said:


> the killer defect with Apple isn't anything technological it's their marketing and the type of cunts who buy their overpriced shit.



Lol!


----------



## elbows (Jul 3, 2010)

Futurama to the rescue:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/02/futurama-critiques-gadget-and-social-media-obsession-using-1950s/


----------



## Sunray (Jul 4, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> This Anandtech review of the iPhone is the best one I've read.
> It has a really thorough investigation of the signal attenuation problems and explains why you don't see it so much in high signal areas and why the drop in signal bars is misleading.



The man says its fine and its actually better reception than the 3G which means that its all a load of hyped bollox.  I trust no other hardware reviewer quite like Anand Li Shimpy.

I have the 32Gb version coming sometime in the week.

I look forward to the 1st app that does steady cam on the phone.  Might be fast enough?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 4, 2010)

Two days in now, and I'm liking it a lot.

Most of the niggles are solved. Calls are good.

I can generate the problem if I grip the phone at the bottom, say whilst browsing staring at it... but again, as with the calls I don't hold it that way.

Video camera is awesome.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 4, 2010)

Seems to me the reception problems happen most when people try to create them. In the real world does anyone use the phone in that way?


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Seems to me the reception problems happen most when people try to create them. In the real world does anyone use the phone in that way?


I imagine the people who have suffered dropped calls do.

I certainly might hold the phone that way if I was using the speaker phone. Either way, it's a design flaw that should have been addressed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 4, 2010)

I've never held a phone like that on a call and the torrent of posts seem to be purposely trying to recreate it. 

It is a flaw but not a big one given the insane number of sales...


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've never held a phone like that on a call and the torrent of posts seem to be purposely trying to recreate it.
> 
> It is a flaw but not a big one given the insane number of sales...


It's been blown out of all proportion - the class action lawsuits are ridiculous, if you ask me - but it may certainly prove a very real and annoying flaw for some users, who perhaps have got a little more annoyed by Steve Jobs' dismissive attitude.

It wouldn't stop me buying one, but I'd expect a bumper to be thrown in for free.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 4, 2010)

editor said:


> It's been blown out of all proportion - the class action lawsuits are ridiculous, if you ask me - but it may certainly prove a very real and annoying flaw for some users, who perhaps have got a little more annoyed by Steve Jobs' dismissive attitude.
> 
> It wouldn't stop me buying one, but I'd expect a bumper to be thrown in for free.



Yep pretty agree with all the above right down to demanding a free bumper too.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 4, 2010)

editor said:


> I imagine the people who have suffered dropped calls do.
> 
> I certainly might hold the phone that way if I was using the speaker phone. Either way, it's a design flaw that should have been addressed.



Anandtec has said its actually more sensitive and give you better reception than the 3G by managing to hack the 4 so that it displays the signal strength.  He's verging on autistic in his attention to detail so I'd say that its people talking bollocks.

They have always dropped calls, the 3G did it and this is no different.

I've dropped a few on the release of the phone and v2.0.0 of the software.  After a few hurried point releases, I've never dropped a call.  I'd say my 3G is quite easily the most reliable phone I have ever owned.


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Anandtec has said its actually more sensitive and give you better reception than the 3G by managing to hack the 4 so that it displays the signal strength.  He's verging on autistic in his attention to detail so I'd say that its people talking bollocks.


You may be quick to dismiss it as people "talking bollocks" but there seems to be no shortage of antenna experts, other tech sites and regular users experiencing the problem. 


I don't think they're all making it up.


----------



## ovaltina (Jul 4, 2010)

editor said:


> It wouldn't stop me buying one, but I'd expect a bumper to be thrown in for free.



Corporate buyers will steer clear and go for blackberries instead


----------



## Winot (Jul 4, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> Corporate buyers will steer clear and go for blackberries instead



We didn't.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 4, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> Corporate buyers will steer clear and go for blackberries instead



I seriously doubt it will have any impact.


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2010)

I think a lot of people would still buy an iPhone if a big spring sporadically boing'd out the back.


----------



## g force (Jul 5, 2010)

Many corporates will stick with RIM because it does what it needs to - send/receive email better than any other phone and the hardware is cheaper.

But the 'issues' won't affect the buying decision. It comes down to ability to support hardware and cost.


----------



## grit (Jul 5, 2010)

g force said:


> Many corporates will stick with RIM because it does what it needs to - send/receive email better than any other phone and the hardware is cheaper.
> 
> But the 'issues' won't affect the buying decision. It comes down to ability to support hardware and cost.



Enterprises use Blackberry more for BES rather than anything else. Stuff like remote wipe and the like are the compelling reasons.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2010)

BGR are _insisting_ that those Steve Jobs emails were real and are calling Apple liars!



> Now BGR has posted a followup story maintaining that the email exchange was real, save for that one misattributed message, and they’re basically calling Apple’s PR team liars. In the post, BGR founder Jonathan Geller details how he had the relevant Email headers analyzed and has looked through Burford’s Google Apps account himself (with permission). *And he says that despite what Apple claims, the emails check out.





> What*is interesting is the allegation that Apple PR lied on the record to multiple press outlets about the authenticity of the story. *It’s not unusual for PR teams — especially Apple’s — to ignore or give vague or even misleading statements to the press. *But it would be crossing a line to give a statement that is demonstrably false. *We’ve reached out to Apple PR to ask them if they have a response to the new BGR piece.



http://techcrunch.com/2010/07/03/bgr-apple-jobs-email/

Edit: here's the BGR article: http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/03/the-entire-steve-jobs-email-story-its-real/


----------



## grit (Jul 5, 2010)

editor said:


> BGR are _insisting_ that those Steve Jobs emails were real and are calling Apple liars!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Email headers as proof? Thats weak. Anyone could sit down and write those headers from scratch easily.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2010)

grit said:


> Email headers as proof? Thats weak. Anyone could sit down and write those headers from scratch easily.


Have you read the BGR piece?


----------



## Winot (Jul 5, 2010)

g force said:


> Many corporates will stick with RIM because it does what it needs to - send/receive email better than any other phone



Are up to date Blackberrys any cop at reading attachments?  The iPhone is superb at that - much better than older Blackberrys - don't know about the newer ones.


----------



## grit (Jul 5, 2010)

Winot said:


> Are up to date Blackberrys any cop at reading attachments?  The iPhone is superb at that - much better than older Blackberrys - don't know about the newer ones.



Sure, they open microsoft office attachments and the like without issue.


----------



## grit (Jul 5, 2010)

editor said:


> Have you read the BGR piece?



I'm not interested in the piece, just the use of email headers as "proof" (which is ridiculous).


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 5, 2010)

Playing with my iPhone 4.
Disappointed.


----------



## Callum91 (Jul 5, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Playing with my iPhone 4.
> Disappointed.



Not exactly ''revolutionary'' is it?


----------



## grit (Jul 5, 2010)

Callum91 said:


> Not exactly ''revolutionary'' is it?



Well it is, its just spurring on the Android revolution


----------



## Sunray (Jul 5, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Playing with my iPhone 4.
> Disappointed.



If you were happy with the older models or another phone, then why did you get a iPhone 4?

Are you a lemming?

There is only one reason I want it, screen, video etc etc all irrelevant to me.  The one big feature over a 3G is the speed.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 5, 2010)

It's a phone, were you expecting a profound life changing experience?


----------



## sim667 (Jul 5, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> It's a phone, were you expecting a profound life changing experience?



Ive found some nifty little features i really like on mine.........


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 5, 2010)

Me too. But it's still just a toy, and a device for making phone calls.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 5, 2010)

Sunray said:


> If you were happy with the older models or another phone, then why did you get a iPhone 4?
> 
> Are you a lemming?
> 
> There is only one reason I want it, screen, video etc etc all irrelevant to me.  The one big feature over a 3G is the speed.



My iphone 3G died on me, and for the last 4 months I've been using a £5 LG phone - no camera, picture screen, no internet. And tbh, I liked the idea of a no-frills phone. The battery lasts for longer and I'm not fiddling with iMobster/ killing zombies every other hour of the day.

But I do miss having an iPod...The cost of replacing my broken 3G is £50.
For £90, I could get the iPhone 4. So I went with the iPhone 4.

Speed? Yeah that's good.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 5, 2010)

So you're dissapointed you now have an Phone that has an iPod built in cos you missed your iPod?


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 5, 2010)

Callum91 said:


> Not exactly ''revolutionary'' is it?



It feels...clunky.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 5, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Me too. But it's still just a toy, and a device for making phone calls.



exactly..... i use mobileme, have all mac at home, am used to the iphone and really like it as a device and interface......

but still the hattorz keep on hating.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 5, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> It feels...clunky.



Compared to a 3G?

Can I have some of what you're sniffing, please.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 5, 2010)

Kanda said:


> So you're dissapointed you now have an Phone that has an iPod built in cos you missed your iPod?



pretty much.
but i must confess that i did follow the herd a little (similar to voting lib dem during the last election).


----------



## Winot (Jul 5, 2010)

Buying an iPhone 4 = voting Conservative


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 5, 2010)

We got 6 delivered to work today.  We haven't been able to replicate the signal problem on any of them so far...  Am a bit suspicious about wifi signal strength though.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 5, 2010)

Winot said:


> Buying an iPhone 4 = voting Conservative



I thought you'd bought one... are you trying to tell us something?


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2010)

Charlie Brooker on the Jabscreen:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/jul/05/iphone-4-apple-new


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 5, 2010)

Annoyingly it appears none of the older iphone cables fit the new phone if it's wearing a bumper. Gah.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 5, 2010)

(source)


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 5, 2010)

dogmatique said:


> Annoyingly it appears none of the older iphone cables fit the new phone if it's wearing a bumper. Gah.



I thought it was only 3rd party cables?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 6, 2010)

Mmmm, FaceTime.

Very


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 6, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> I thought it was only 3rd party cables?



Fraid not - the cables with the fatter connector and squeeze-locks don't click in when wearing a bumper.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 6, 2010)

dogmatique said:


> Annoyingly it appears none of the older iphone cables fit the new phone if it's wearing a bumper. Gah.



Erm.. yeah they do.

I've got cables at work on 2 different floors, at home in 3 different rooms... I haven't taken the cable out of the iPhone 4 box yet.... they're all old ones.

E2A: missed the bit about squeeze locks.. will check.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 6, 2010)

Anyone know of any cheapish car holders for a 4g? it wont fit in my griffin one


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 6, 2010)

Fuck, iPhone 4 has terrible reception. 
Had to go on the roof just to make a call.

Camera and HD vid is impressive.
Batter too.
Speed, can't tell yet - it appears to be the same as the 3GS but I like the multiple processing thingy.

I don't like the clunky design still.
Feels heavy.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 6, 2010)

It's resolved my 'no signal at desk' issue, I now have 5 bars lol...


----------



## Cm7 (Jul 6, 2010)




----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 6, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Fuck, iPhone 4 has terrible reception.
> Had to go on the roof just to make a call.



Again, mine's been ace everywhere so far.

Much, much better on Voda than o2 was, and o2 weren't bad.

Perhaps you're holding it wrong...


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 6, 2010)

Cm7 said:


>






			
				stupid dogbot said:
			
		

> Again, mine's been ace everywhere so far.
> 
> Much, much better on Voda than o2 was, and o2 weren't bad.
> 
> Perhaps you're holding it wrong...



Yeah I read Jobbs saying that...I should have done my research before signing up


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 6, 2010)

In fairness and _jokes_ aside, I've never had mobile reception problems where I live, no matter what handset I've had.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 6, 2010)

no probs with mine at all...... but it is in a case, so that'll be why.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 6, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Mmmm, FaceTime.
> 
> Very



How have you found the picture quality?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 6, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How have you found the picture quality?



It was really, really good. Very impressed.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 6, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> It was really, really good. Very impressed.



me too

although we've had a problem on some wifi connections i.e. my mates, but its shoddily set up, he has no concept of port forwarding or what the difference between what b,g,n all means.....

on mine its been fine and dandy.


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (Jul 6, 2010)

I have upgraded to iOS4 on my 3Gs without any problems but think the music volume on the iPod through earphones seems quieter, anyone else noticed/thought this? It could just be my age/imagination


----------



## grit (Jul 6, 2010)

sim667 said:


> me too
> 
> although we've had a problem on some wifi connections i.e. my mates, but its shoddily set up, he has no concept of port forwarding or what the difference between what b,g,n all means.....
> 
> on mine its been fine and dandy.



I've never used a new iphone, but it seems crazy that it would require any configuration on the router side?


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 6, 2010)

I had to add it's MAC address to my router to get it to connect at home - just won't connect at all at work.  Similar issue with any iPads that come into the office too.  Old router there, mind.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2010)

Can any of you reproduce this quirk on your iPhones?


Edit: it looks like the software update isn't going to fix the antenna problem: http://gizmodo.com/5580587/applecare-the-iphone-4-update-wont-solve-the-antenna-problem


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 6, 2010)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> I have upgraded to iOS4 on my 3Gs without any problems but think the music volume on the iPod through earphones seems quieter, anyone else noticed/thought this? It could just be my age/imagination



I was wondering the very same thing today..!


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 6, 2010)

editor said:


> Can any of you reproduce this quirk on your iPhones?
> 
> 
> Edit: it looks like the software update isn't going to fix the antenna problem: http://gizmodo.com/5580587/applecare-the-iphone-4-update-wont-solve-the-antenna-problem




Anecdotally, out of the six iphone 4's we recieved on Monday, none of them display this issue when in the office - which is in the West End, and has a strong 3G signal. And we really did try - on all of them.  I was expecting the signal to just drop, but it didn't. However - it now transpires that at home, one person who admits that his 3G signal is weak there can replicate it.

So it would appear that in an area of strong 3G signal, it doesn't appear to make a difference - if your signal is weak, however, it does affect it.

Common sense would suggest that putting a metal antenna on the outside of a phone without shielding is a bad idea.

As is having an* unprotected glass front and back* FFS - what were they thinking? There is no way I would walk round with the new one without a bumper.  Insane design!


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 6, 2010)

dogmatique said:


> As is having an* unprotected glass front and back* FFS - what were they thinking? There is no way I would walk round with the new one without a bumper.  Insane design!



It's not any old glass.  It's a special toughened glass.  Here's the blurb about it from Apple's website:




			
				Apple said:
			
		

> Engineered Glass
> 
> All the breakthrough technology in iPhone 4 is situated between two glossy panels of aluminosilicate glass — the same type of glass used in the windshields of helicopters and high-speed trains. Chemically strengthened to be 20 times stiffer and 30 times harder than plastic, the glass is ultradurable and more scratch resistant than ever. It’s also recyclable.


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 7, 2010)

Its still fuckin glass.  Glass breaks, chips and splinters when encountering shock. Shit idea.  Not so bad when protected by the bezel, but exposed?


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> It's not any old glass.  It's a special toughened glass.  Here's the blurb about it from Apple's website:


Here's how that extra toughened super-fab extra-amazing glass _might_ look like after a drop from your pocket.







http://gizmodo.com/5559977/first-broken-iphone-4-shows-new-glass-isnt-that-resistant


----------



## Sunray (Jul 7, 2010)

Just have to be careful with a 500-600 quid device.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 7, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Just have to be careful with a 500-600 quid device.



As you would with anything of that value.... what do people expect? Panasonic Toughbook levels of sturdiness?

(Even though they are shit too!)


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (Jul 7, 2010)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> I have upgraded to iOS4 on my 3Gs without any problems but think the music volume on the iPod through earphones seems quieter, anyone else noticed/thought this? It could just be my age/imagination





Kid_Eternity said:


> I was wondering the very same thing today..!



Maybe not just my imagination then. I always have the volume on full and I'm sure the volume is now quieter after the OS upgrade


----------



## grimble (Jul 7, 2010)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> Maybe not just my imagination then. *I always have the volume on full *and I'm sure the volume is now quieter after the OS upgrade



Ah, I think I sat next to you on the tube this morning.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 7, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Do I return my IP4 (within the no quibble return 14 day window) get a refund and wait for iP4ss (signal sorted) or go for a replacement in the hope it solves my aerial issues (unlikely as it's probably a design issue).
> Oh, the angst of it


Today is the 14th day. I've decided to hang on to it for the time being and get it replaced once the supply issue is sorted.


editor said:


> I think a lot of people would still buy an iPhone if a big spring sporadically boing'd out the back.


Sad to say, I'm afraid so. I need my head testing


----------



## Structaural (Jul 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Here's how that extra toughened super-fab extra-amazing glass _might_ look like after a drop from your pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This dude broke the back of it:

http://tnerd.com/2010/06/30/iphone-4-glass-its-not-hardstiff-enough-if-it-breaks/

$199 replacement fee! Get a cover. Though they are replacing for free sometimes.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jul 7, 2010)

Structaural said:


> This dude broke the back of it:
> 
> http://tnerd.com/2010/06/30/iphone-4-glass-its-not-hardstiff-enough-if-it-breaks/
> 
> .



What did he do? Throw it at a brick wall or stamp on it wearing builders boots?!!


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 7, 2010)

Nah, 18 inches from a sitting position to shag pile carpet.


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

I don't think the new iPhone is like a delicate vase or anything and I suspect it needs to be hit at certain angles for catastrophe to strike, but surely any phone made of glass is going to be more vulnerable than solid plastic.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jul 7, 2010)

dogmatique said:


> shag pile carpet.



Deserves everything he gets then.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I don't think the new iPhone is like a delicate vase or anything and I suspect it needs to be hit at certain angles for catastrophe to strike, but surely any phone made of glass is going to be more vulnerable than solid plastic.



Plastic will break if you hit it hard enough, and Apple claim the glass used in the iPhone 4 is stronger than plastic.  I wonder how many of those iPhones where the glass has broken would have broken anyway even if plastic had been used.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 7, 2010)

dogmatique said:


> Nah, 18 inches from a sitting position to shag pile carpet.



Seriously unlucky, then. I've already chucked mine further than that, and missed the sofa, leading to a 3ft fall onto very thin carpet.

Not even a scratch.


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 7, 2010)

I was being sarcastic - but having said that, I've been with a mate in a beer garden, and his 3G fell out of his pocket whilst he was sitting down, falling onto a flagstone less than 2 feet down, and smashed to bits.

My iPhone 1 smashed falling out of the car when I opened the door - less than a foot.

This new one's glass is exposed all the way round - any sudden shock will inevitably chip or crack it, regardless of how "hard" it is.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 7, 2010)

I wonder if there is a market for bungie cords on phones like some people do with keys.

Drop your phone? No worries as it springs back up after narrowly missing the floor. Tragedy averted. Just $9.99 in all good stores.

Dragon's Den here i come.


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (Jul 7, 2010)

grimble said:


> Ah, I think I sat next to you on the tube this morning.



Nope.

A. I'm at home
B. I use in ear headphones which don't leak sound and annoy other peeps 

TBH The sound on my iPhone was never that loud imo hence the full volume but now it seems painfully low so I can hear outside noise above my music even full volume and in ear headphones 

Anyone know if I can do anything either on the iPhone or in my iTunes library to inrease the volume on my iPhone?


----------



## dogmatique (Jul 7, 2010)

Some drop testing.  Didn't take long to break it:


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 7, 2010)

So don't buy one, then.


----------



## grit (Jul 7, 2010)

I've dropped my 3g onto the pavement once or twice while walking, not a bother on it.


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

dogmatique said:


> Some drop testing.  Didn't take long to break it:


It's a bit surprising how easy it was to smash the screen - the drop that trashed the screen was the kind of thing most of my old phones have emerged intact from.

Seeing as they were sacrificing a brand new expensive phone, you'd think that they'd get a decent mic on their camera too.


----------



## Private Storm (Jul 7, 2010)

Fixed


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 7, 2010)

editor said:


> It's a bit surprising how easy it was to smash the screen - the drop that trashed the screen was the kind of thing most of my old phones have emerged intact from..


It was smashed on the 4th drop, plus the phone wasn't activated. 

Was it filmed on an iPhone during a hurricane?

And if they did use an iP4 - top tip, for best results when using the camcorder hold it/film in landscape.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 7, 2010)

God this thread is now as boring as it is when we end up arguing over the app approval system...


----------



## Sunray (Jul 7, 2010)

My ip4 is sitting in the shop.  Will get it tonight.  Did that liven up the thread?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 7, 2010)

Sunray said:


> My ip4 is sitting in the shop.  Will get it tonight.  Did that liven up the thread?



Yes!


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

Is this interesting enough for you, or will you mark it down as boring because it's not positive enough?

Android ‘demolishes’ iPhone in Javascript benchmark test
http://www.wirefresh.com/android-demolishes-iphone-in-javascript-benchmark-test/


----------



## grit (Jul 7, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> God this thread is now as boring as it is when we end up arguing over the app approval system...



This is far worse


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Is this interesting enough for you, or will you mark it down as boring because it's not positive enough?
> 
> Android ‘demolishes’ iPhone in Javascript benchmark test
> http://www.wirefresh.com/android-demolishes-iphone-in-javascript-benchmark-test/



It's nothing to do with it not being 'positive' it's like the reception thing; in the real world we don't go around grasping our phones with two full hands or flinging it against every available hard surface! Yet this *trivial* stuff takes up pages and pages of boring as shite 'opinion' about it all...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 7, 2010)

grit said:


> This is far worse



I'm beginning to agree...


----------



## tarannau (Jul 7, 2010)

Seems a little short-sighted to only feature one of a bank of tests though, particularly when others show other competitors in a better light.

Here's one example:







Deliberate/selective omission or incomplete second-hand reporting of sources? More tests here, in a much more compelling and useful package

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3794/the-iphone-4-review/12


----------



## Sunray (Jul 7, 2010)

editor said:


> Is this interesting enough for you, or will you mark it down as boring because it's not positive enough?
> 
> Android ‘demolishes’ iPhone in Javascript benchmark test
> http://www.wirefresh.com/android-demolishes-iphone-in-javascript-benchmark-test/


 
Safari and the Android web browser are based upon the same technology and at some point that JavaScript tech will be incorporated into Safari as Apple are a major contributor to webkit after essentially creating it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WebKit


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Deliberate/selective omission or incomplete second-hand reporting of sources? More tests here, in a much more compelling and useful package


I've always rated Ars Technica as an excellent resource, but feel free to offer your criticisms of their piece:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2010/07/android-22-demolishes-ios4-in-javascript-benchmarks.ars

Talking of deliberate/selective omission, how come you missed out all these from your same source? Amazingly, they all back up Ars Technica's findings!


----------



## tarannau (Jul 7, 2010)

Clearly because I was pointing out the selectiveness and effective futility of only choosing one graph out of many . I provided an obvious link straight after to the bank of tests as clearly as I could fwiw. 

That Wirefresh article reads as if it's triumphantly, gratefully crowing that the iphone has been 'demolished' in one particular, limited area of Java Implementation. The Anandtech one manages to sound balanced, inquisitive and genuinely interested in comparing the phones's capabilities rather than scoring points and reinforcing existing preferences. Which is telling in itself, wouldn't you say?


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> That Wirefresh article reads as if it's triumphantly, gratefully crowing that the iphone has been 'demolished' in one particular, limited area of Java Implementation. The Anandtech one manages to sound balanced, inquisitive and genuinely interested in comparing the phones's capabilities rather than scoring points and reinforcing existing preferences. Which is telling in itself, wouldn't you say?


Actually, it's accurately reflecting the tone of the original article. Have you bothered to read it? 

The title of their piece is, "*Android 2.2 demolishes iOS4 in JavaScript benchmark*," adding, "The results show that the Android device delivers significantly faster JavaScript execution than the iPhone, scoring over three times better on V8 and almost twice as fast on SunSpider. Apple has some work to do it if wants mobile Safari to retake the crown as the fastest mobile browser."

The Anandtech article merely reinforces Ars Technica's findings too, despite your wonderful example of what a piece of "deliberate/selective omission" really looks like.

Quite why you get so worked up about all this is beyond me. I'm happy to read and write criticism about products I own, yet you always seem to charge into full-on defensive mode.


----------



## tarannau (Jul 7, 2010)

And your motivation for cutting and pasting someone else's article on here and Wirefresh is?

Clearly it's all about the dispassionate spread of information and not at all to do with your usual shenanigans on picking at minor concerns for the bulk of users.


----------



## grit (Jul 7, 2010)

I dont care about this javascript argument. However Editor do you request permission from Ars to reproduce parts of their content?


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> And your motivation for cutting and pasting someone else's article on here and Wirefresh is?
> 
> Clearly it's all about the dispassionate spread of information and not at all to do with your usual shenanigans on picking at minor concerns for the bulk of users.


I can't be arsed with another bout of your ad hominems. I posted up iPhone related information on an iPhone related thread, so why not focus on that?

Elsewhere and back on topic:


> The Apple iPhone 4 does suffer from a less sensitive proximity sensor than the iPhone 3GS, an independent lab test of the iPhone 4 has confirmed.
> 
> iPhone 4 users have been complaining that the proximity sensor on Apple’s new iPhone 4 is less sensitive than previous models – leading to the screen remaining active during calls when the iPhone 4 is held up to the face. The result, claim some users, is the accidental activation of on-screen buttons leading to calls being hung up, placed on speaker phone, new calls being made, or the switching on of Apple’s FaceTime video-conferencing feature.
> 
> http://www.which.co.uk/news/2010/07/which-tests-show-iphone-4-proximity-problems-219863


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 7, 2010)

Won't the iPhone just get the same javascript improvements in a software update. Both browsers are based on the same platform, are they not?


----------



## tarannau (Jul 7, 2010)

Well that's my thoughts, but it's clearly worth a multi pronged mention and special feature to some.

As for Ad Hominen, given the past track record of the Ed on this subject, wearily pointed out by many a poster here, I'd urge folks to look up a dictionary definition of this term and consider whether this was in any way a fallacious accusation. I think it's legitimate and relevant context to the posting myself.


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 7, 2010)

Is this the thread for posting about apps?


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

grit said:


> However Editor do you request permission from Ars  to reproduce parts of their content?


FYI, such use comes under 'fair use' in the US, and you'll find it's very _very_  common on tech sites - even the big ones (indeed, the AT article has already been reproduced on a host of other sites). Quite a bit of my stuff has been similarly reproduced, and so long as it's on a bona fide tech site, correctly attributed and a link back added, I'm not bothered at all. In fact, it's the kind of thing that drives traffic to sites and helps promote them - and boost search engine rankings. I'm happy to discuss this in further detail if you're interested, but maybe not on this thread, yes?  

And back on topic - how's this for an impressive technology demo?!


> The enjoyment factor of GunRange does not stem from the fact that you are destroying targets, it comes form the amazing control offered by the iPhone 4 gyroscope. It literally “feels” like you are holding the weapon in your hands and where ever you aim your iPhone, the cursor hovers over the target. This level of control is unprecedented in previous iPhone efforts till now. It is simply a tease of what is to come.



http://www.tipb.com/2010/07/07/eliminate-gunrange-iphone-4-app-review/

*ignores tarannau's latest personal attack


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 7, 2010)

The android browser and safari may both use webkit, but they certainly don't have the same JavaScript engine, and they won't; Apple and Google are each developing their own, same as for the desktop.

They both get better all the time so it isn't something that bothers me; sometimes theres a lag but it tends to only be temporary. The google engine, V8, also performs better on some tasks than Apple's but worse on others. Both companies have a lot invested in JavaScript tech so they both have the motivation to make their software as efficient and competitive as possible - win for the consumer really.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 7, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Clearly because I was pointing out the selectiveness and effective futility of only choosing one graph out of many . I provided an obvious link straight after to the bank of tests as clearly as I could fwiw.
> 
> That Wirefresh article reads as if it's triumphantly, gratefully crowing that the iphone has been 'demolished' in one particular, limited area of Java Implementation. The Anandtech one manages to sound balanced, inquisitive and genuinely interested in comparing the phones's capabilities rather than scoring points and reinforcing existing preferences. Which is telling in itself, wouldn't you say?



Yeah well you know now that the iPhone has been demolished the tens of millions round the world will be charging to their nearest phone shop to buy a google phone...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 7, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Is this the thread for posting about apps?



Who knows? It's got so tedious I reckon it'd be more fun to throw myself under a train at this point...


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Who knows? It's got so tedious I reckon it'd be more fun to throw myself under a train at this point...


Why don't you post something of interest instead of just whining, then?

What do you think of that iPhone game demo using gyroscopes that I posted up, for example?


----------



## grit (Jul 7, 2010)

I've failed as an android head, my mother just sent me a text from her new iPhone


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 7, 2010)

grit said:


> I've failed as an android head, my mother just sent me a text from her new iPhone



Heh.


----------



## Xanadu (Jul 7, 2010)

Can't wait for that screen to be seen on more phones!


----------



## Winot (Jul 7, 2010)

Crispy; said:
			
		

> Chris, get icab mobile, it's a proper browser with tabs and things, but renders and scrolls just as well as safari
> Let's you download files for offline viewing too



Am loving the 'scroll to the bottom' module for reading bulletin boards, but there doesn't seem much difference (on the iPhone) between multiple tabs and multiple pages.  Also it seems slow to refresh a page because it first renders the page as it last appeared then you need to refresh.


----------



## elbows (Jul 7, 2010)

Here is my criticism of the javascript story from a web dev perspective.

Javascript performance matters, so do a variety of other browser speed things. 

There is nothing at all wrong with highlighting the clearly superior javascript performance of a particular platform/device.

It is misleading to base 'fastest mobile browser' on javascript performance alone. Ars come close to misleading in this way by mentioning Apple needing to do work to retake the fastest mobile browser crown, but so long as they dont simply give the crown to Android 2.2 they can get away with it in my book. Taking all the data in the article into account, it is clear that neither platform can claim the crown at this stage, for some pages will load faster on Apples kit and some faster on Android 2.2 on Nexus One. From a users perspective it doesnt really matter as long as pages arent loading so slowly on either device that there is a noticeable downside to owning either.

Javascript performance will certainly become more important in future assuming we get richer webapps. But some of the things that CSS3 offers may well reduce the need for javascript to be used so much on a lot of websites for animation and so forth, so hardware acceleration of these CSS3 things will be increasingly important part of the browser performance mix. Android remains well behind on this as far as I know, I hope they sort it out especially as Android tablets emerge.


----------



## grit (Jul 7, 2010)

elbows said:


> Here is my criticism of the javascript story from a web dev perspective.
> 
> Javascript performance matters, so do a variety of other browser speed things.
> 
> ...



Yeah hardware css3 is nice, still just seems like a weak substitute for a native ui.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 7, 2010)

Heh this is cool!


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Heh this is cool!


Except it can't be animated like an Android screen which kind of reduces the coolness if that's the kind of thing you like (I don't).

*slightly off topic






Have to say I'm loving the look of the MobileMe iPad/browser/Cloud Calendar, btw.
http://mashable.com/2010/07/07/mobileme-calendar-idisk


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 8, 2010)

Not at all, it's very cool and I don't care that it's not moving (and neither are the people who emailed me for a copy)! We like not having our battery life drained with pointless animations.


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 8, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Is this the thread for posting about apps?



I'm going to post about an app anyway.

Planisphere - it's a planisphere, for looking at stars and that and it's cheap at £0.59. It's brilliant - does exactly what you need it to. It has a night vision mode (makes everything red) so you don't fuck your night vision when you're using it. It uses the compass and accelerometer so you can get a pretty accurate representation of what you're looking at in the sky on your phone.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jul 8, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> I'm going to post about an app anyway.
> 
> Planisphere - it's a planisphere, for looking at stars and that and it's cheap at £0.59. It's brilliant - does exactly what you need it to. It has a night vision mode (makes everything red) so you don't fuck your night vision when you're using it. It uses the compass and accelerometer so you can get a pretty accurate representation of what you're looking at in the sky on your phone.



Better than Google Sky?

(eta...is Google Sky available on iPhone?)


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 8, 2010)

mwgdrwg said:


> Better than Google Sky?
> 
> (eta...is Google Sky available on iPhone?)



errr, I didn't know about Google Sky. 

e2a I don't think you can get it on iphone.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 8, 2010)

Just bought a case with a strange acidic smell. 
Reception is good now.

anyone recommend some jailbreak software for new platform?


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 8, 2010)

Interesting, I just received an email from Apple asking me to complete a questionnaire on my recent iphone purchases - it abruptly ended after I ticked the 'unsatisfied' box on question 4.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 8, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Interesting, I just received an email from Apple asking me to complete a questionnaire on my recent iphone purchases - it abruptly ended after I ticked the 'unsatisfied' box on question 4.



I got that email too.  The thing is though my iPhone isn't due to be sent out until next Friday!


----------



## grit (Jul 8, 2010)

Any suggestions on how to wipe everything on a 3G without restoring the software (its jailbroken).

I want to delete all contacts,photos,applications etc


----------



## Sunray (Jul 8, 2010)

All the negativity about the iPhone 4 there has been something missing from many of the reviews I've read and the impression I have of this phone now I own one.  It was pretty easy to get, I just saw a sign in the Tottenham court road branch of carphone warehouse saying they were available.  When I asked they said they had sold all the stock they had but they were getting some more on Wednesday and I could have one of those if I wanted.  I reckon the Apple store in Regent st has a daily consignment.

As an owner of a 3G from the start together with all the current negativity surrounding this phone I had forgotten quite how much of an upgrade the 4 is from a 3G.  Lets say this straight, this is an utterly awesome gadget.  

It looks amazing, the design is a lovely rework of what has become an iconic device.  The screen is insane. I can clearly read urban fully zoomed in portrait. The maps look amazing. The colours are rich and the black is so black, in shadow its hard to tell the screen from the bezel even when its on. The glass does not pick up finger prints like the 3G although its not totally immune.  I'm undecided if I want to put a screen protector on it yet. 

Then there are all the little upgrades that iOS4 brings and the ones that were on the 3GS like the compass, the voice control...'what is the time'.... and the speed.  Not many realise that the 3GS introduced some solid universal access (accessibility) features.  Things like 3 finger hold to zoom the icons to 2x2 for instance.

Crikey  its so so much faster than a 3G.  People forget that the 3G originally came with what was a pretty basic OS and it got roundly criticised for lacking features.  But the features it had worked and worked well.  Time has moved on and iOS4 compared to v2.0?  Different game and the 3G was starting to wheeze at what it was being asked to do. The iPhone 4 on the other hand is so silky smooth in operation it makes oil look rough.  

Multi tasking seems to work well, not many apps support it right now see how it goes. 

Loving the app grouping, 6-7 pages of apps was really getting cumbersome.

I can see that it might get damaged if you were to drop it at an angle onto something hard.  Simple answer is don't.  For the more clumsy, I have no doubt that a plethora of covers are being churned out in China as I am typing this. 

The ease of which I just moved all my data from my old phone to the new one shows that iTunes is better than some make out. e.g.  I plugged the new phone in and it asked if I wanted to copy all my data to it. Though Apple should really make it a proper Windows application...

The box is even smaller than the last one, which was pretty minimalist.  The PSU is stupid tiny, so little waste there. Not universal like the last one though, purely a UK PSU, I think it says 100-240v, its so tiny I can't read it so work with a converter of your choice.


----------



## pengaleng (Jul 9, 2010)

With all the minor faults, and they really are minor, I love mine, the display is fucking amazing.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 9, 2010)

Gaaaah, the little 3G dock I have doesn't quite fit but its agonisingly close, 0.1 of a mm and it would make contact.

The 4G dock, 25 quid for a lump of plastic. Isn't selling the most expensive phone in the world enough?


----------



## pengaleng (Jul 9, 2010)

Get a Stanley knife or similar and whittle it down a bit, I presume it's plastic?


----------



## Winot (Jul 9, 2010)

grit; said:
			
		

> Any suggestions on how to wipe everything on a 3G without restoring the software (its jailbroken).
> 
> I want to delete all contacts,photos,applications etc



There's a wipe all data option within the reset menu on the phone itself.  Takes about 2 hours.


----------



## grit (Jul 9, 2010)

Winot said:


> There's a wipe all data option within the rest menu on the phone itself.  Takes about 2 hours.



Thats exactly what I was looking for, cheers


----------



## Winot (Jul 9, 2010)

grit said:


> Thats exactly what I was looking for, cheers



No problem.  for 'rest' read 'reset'.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 9, 2010)

Sunray said:


> All the negativity about the iPhone 4 there has been something missing from many of the reviews I've read and the impression I have of this phone now I own one.  It was pretty easy to get, I just saw a sign in the Tottenham court road branch of carphone warehouse saying they were available.  When I asked they said they had sold all the stock they had but they were getting some more on Wednesday and I could have one of those if I wanted.  I reckon the Apple store in Regent st has a daily consignment.
> 
> As an owner of a 3G from the start together with all the current negativity surrounding this phone I had forgotten quite how much of an upgrade the 4 is from a 3G.  Lets say this straight, this is an utterly awesome gadget.
> 
> ...



Cheers Sunray - this the review I was looking for - 3G user to 4 user, definitely worth the upgrade (4x screen, 4x memory and probably 4x the speed).

Now will they hurry up and get over here in Holland, we're in the World Cup Final but you can't get a bloody iPhone 4 'coming soon', 'coming soon'...

How much did you pay, if you don't mind me asking? I might just get a new unlocked one, but get someone in England to buy it as it will be cheaper. Was your old 3G jailbroken? Did you restore it before sorting out the 4?


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 9, 2010)

Structaural said:


> How much did you pay, if you don't mind me asking?


Unlocked from the Apple shop 16GB = £499, 32GB = £599


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 9, 2010)

Sunray said:


> All the negativity about the iPhone 4 there has been something missing from many of the reviews I've read and the impression I have of this phone now I own one.  It was pretty easy to get, I just saw a sign in the Tottenham court road branch of carphone warehouse saying they were available.  When I asked they said they had sold all the stock they had but they were getting some more on Wednesday and I could have one of those if I wanted.  I reckon the Apple store in Regent st has a daily consignment.
> 
> As an owner of a 3G from the start together with all the current negativity surrounding this phone I had forgotten quite how much of an upgrade the 4 is from a 3G.  Lets say this straight, this is an utterly awesome gadget.
> 
> ...



Spot on.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 9, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Unlocked from the Apple shop 16GB = £499, 32GB = £599



Cheers, so is that direct dollar to pound usual Apple conversion?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 9, 2010)

Greater user review Sunray, very nice to see some actual real world experience of the phone rather than just a opinion formed on reports of other people's experience.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 9, 2010)

Winot said:


> There's a wipe all data option within the rest menu on the phone itself.  Takes about 2 hours.



or just restore it, and use spirirt to jailbreak it, spirit takes about 2 mins to jailbreak. plug it in, click go


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 9, 2010)

Oh, I've relented and bought a bumper for mine. Not because of signal problems, but because I'm spectacularly cack-handed and have already dropped it about 150 times. 

Fits nicely, and stops the phone sliding about on slightly sloping surfaces.


----------



## Winot (Jul 9, 2010)

sim667 said:


> or just restore it, and use spirirt to jailbreak it, spirit takes about 2 mins to jailbreak. plug it in, click go



grit didn't want to restore


----------



## Sunray (Jul 9, 2010)

On reflection if you have a 3GS, I doubt that this would really be worth it unless you really had to have the latest kit.  I can't get the signal to drop no matter how I squeeze it.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 9, 2010)

I tested a few things yesterday (well, just observed really as it pinged in my pocket at the bottom of the excalators in Brixton)

So, it get's signal at the bottom of the escalators in Brixton, previously it was at the entrance to the tube.
I now get no drop of 3G signal on the way up Brixton Hill on a bus whereas before I only got Edge signal between The Fridge and the White Horse.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 9, 2010)

I find if I hold it for browsing, facing me, with my hand on the bottom left, it drops a bar sometimes.

But that's not my natural position of holding it like that, so I could give a crap, tbh. No calls dropped in a week.

Oh, and Voda's 3G is way better than o2's was.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 9, 2010)

Sunray said:


> On reflection if you have a 3GS, I doubt that this would really be worth it unless you really had to have the latest kit. I can't get the signal to drop no matter how I squeeze it.


 
I'm forever being asked by people should i get this phone or the iPhone4.

I'm seen as the gadget man and former iPhone user and so in the know.

I've been telling people that unless they are really desperate to have the very latest iPhone and have money to burn.. buy the 3GS. 

If they can't afford one of them then buy the HTC Desire but get insurance for it.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 9, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Cheers, so is that direct dollar to pound usual Apple conversion?



As far as I'm aware you can't buy it unlocked in America (only with an AT&T contract), so there's not really a price to compare ours with.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 9, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> As far as I'm aware you can't buy it unlocked in America (only with an AT&T contract), so there's not really a price to compare ours with.



Cheers, I wish more than t-mobile carried it here in Holland, they are toilet.


----------



## g force (Jul 9, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> .
> 
> Oh, and Voda's 3G is way better than o2's was.



Yep way, way better.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 9, 2010)

I never really felt much need to complain about 02s tbh - but Voda's is just _better_.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 9, 2010)

Anyone notice the new mobile youtube, much better than the youtube app:

http://m.youtube.com


----------



## g force (Jul 9, 2010)

Also should say great review Sunray - confirms most of what i've heard from others. A a 3GS owner with OS4 there's little point in me upgrading but for 3G owner the difference is immense.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 9, 2010)

I find the screen well worth the upgrade from my 3Gs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 9, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Anyone notice the new mobile youtube, much better than the youtube app:
> 
> http://m.youtube.com



Yeah that's very nice, using that as a webapp now instead of the main app.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 9, 2010)

g force said:


> Also should say great review Sunray - confirms most of what i've heard from others. A a 3GS owner with OS4 there's little point in me upgrading but for 3G owner the difference is immense.



It is a great post, in fact I'd say if it was fleshed out a bit it'd be a good one for Wirefresh (balance out the coverage of the i4 a bit too).


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah that's very nice, using that as a webapp now instead of the main app.


If you're on an iPhone the web site is way better than the built in iPhone YouTube app.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 9, 2010)

editor said:


> If you're on an iPhone the web site is way better than the built in iPhone YouTube app.



Yup. The new site is great.


----------



## elbows (Jul 9, 2010)

My boss finally got an iphone, on orange business. I could not experiment with the reception issue as the sim hadnt been activated when I had it. He thinks he prefers the look & feel of the older iphones (although he never owned one before), and I can see what he means, I am still undecided about the new design. As expected the screen is really very nice. I remain in no particular rush to get one even though the speed of my 3G with iOS 4 is quite tedious.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 9, 2010)

I swapped sim this morning and it took less than one minute on O2. Weird to watch 3G then 2G disappear and then the new phone start working.


----------



## grit (Jul 10, 2010)

fuck you jobs you dirty bearded cunt.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2010)

Er, ok?


----------



## grit (Jul 10, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Er, ok?



Soz came home drunk to find the iphone 3g im selling tomorrow has totally crashed and wont recover. So i guess it should be the phone I WAS selling but am not anymore.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2010)

Lol ok!


----------



## grit (Jul 10, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol ok!



.


----------



## grit (Jul 10, 2010)

.


----------



## grit (Jul 10, 2010)

Ok I really really need to find a way to unlock an iPhone 3g.


----------



## Cpatain Rbubish (Jul 10, 2010)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> I have upgraded to iOS4 on my 3Gs without any problems but think the music volume on the iPod through earphones seems quieter, anyone else noticed/thought this? It could just be my age/imagination





Kid_Eternity said:


> I was wondering the very same thing today..!





Cpatain Rbubish said:


> Maybe not just my imagination then. I always have the volume on full and I'm sure the volume is now quieter after the OS upgrade





grimble said:


> Ah, I think I sat next to you on the tube this morning.





Cpatain Rbubish said:


> Nope.
> 
> A. I'm at home
> B. I use in ear headphones which don't leak sound and annoy other peeps
> ...



Sorted out my volume issues after the iOS4 upgrade. Set iTunes to 'Sound Check' my library, did the same on my iPhone 3Gs and now volume levels are restored


----------



## Sunray (Jul 10, 2010)

grit said:


> Ok I really really need to find a way to unlock an iPhone 3g.



Its O2, just go here.

http://shop.o2.co.uk/update/unlockmyiphone.html


----------



## Sunray (Jul 10, 2010)

Cpatain Rbubish said:


> Sorted out my volume issues after the iOS4 upgrade. Set iTunes to 'Sound Check' my library, did the same on my iPhone 3Gs and now volume levels are restored



There is a new setting (perhaps its on the 3GS), 'volume limit' in the ipod section of the settings.  You can set the max volume.  

Sure that wasn't set low?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2010)

Yeah checked all that, mine was off. It might just be that the phone is getting on a bit...?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 10, 2010)

Sunray said:


> All the negativity about the iPhone 4 there has been something missing from many of the reviews I've read and the impression I have of this phone now I own one.  It was pretty easy to get, I just saw a sign in the Tottenham court road branch of carphone warehouse saying they were available.  When I asked they said they had sold all the stock they had but they were getting some more on Wednesday and I could have one of those if I wanted.  I reckon the Apple store in Regent st has a daily consignment.
> 
> As an owner of a 3G from the start together with all the current negativity surrounding this phone I had forgotten quite how much of an upgrade the 4 is from a 3G.  Lets say this straight, this is an utterly awesome gadget.
> 
> ...



Thanks so much for that review. My current phone is a 3G, and I've got a 4 coming from the Apple store. (It's apparently been dispatched, but only to 'merge in transit' with the bumper, and I don't have proper tracking info yet.)

Can someone explain to me what the different reception symbols mean please? 3G clearly means 3G, E means Edge, what does ° mean? Is that 2G when 3G drops out? I get solid 3G upstairs in my house, but downstairs it often drops to °. I only get E at certain points when on the train between Stoke and Derby where it all be countryside


----------



## paolo (Jul 10, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> what does ° mean? Is that 2G when 3G drops out?



Yep. Basic GPRS.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 10, 2010)

I'm at the point of demanding a 3gs replacement for my 4 now I'm fucking livid with the way it drops calls it's now after the last o2 carrier update it's now doing the sodding hang up mute face time bollocks...

It's getting more crippled by the week in terms of it's use as a phone it's a great gadget it's such a shit phone and tbh I'm not happy to use a gadget for it's gadgetness if the fundamental part (you know the phone in iPhone) isn't working I could have got a new touch if I'd wanted a new gadget...


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 10, 2010)

The iphone4 aerial issue has become so exaggerated its become folklore,  I've began to use the excuse of dropped calls to my advantage, particularly when talking to my bosses. 

I can recreate the 'death grip' on my iP4 and it's now lessened with the bumper, but I feel some of my difficulties are due to o2's coverage. When I have a strong signal I have fewer problems.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> The iphone4 aerial issue has become so exaggerated its become folklore,  I've began to use the excuse of dropped calls to my advantage, particularly when talking to my bosses.
> 
> I can recreate the 'death grip' on my iP4 and it's now lessened with the bumper, but I feel some of my difficulties are due to o2's coverage. When I have a strong signal I have fewer problems.



Out of the 1 million or so units sold how many have had this problem? Very few from what I can tell so yeah the press have little else to write about with Apple so they're writing about this. Wouldn't surprise if the leak about the new touch pad thing is designed to move the conversation onto something else tbh...

E2A:

Producing speculation like this:


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 10, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Out of the 1 million or so units sold how many have had this problem? Very few from what I can tell so yeah the press have little else to write about with Apple so they're writing about this. Wouldn't surprise if the leak about the new touch pad thing is designed to move the conversation onto something else tbh...
> 
> E2A:
> 
> Producing speculation like this:



if however you have the problem it's infuriating and in no way exagerated as both phones are doing this and neither of the previous generations did it then it's a problem...

but hey if you don't have it feel free to gloat...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 10, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> if however you have the problem it's infuriating and in no way exagerated as both phones are doing this and neither of the previous generations did it then it's a problem...
> 
> but hey if you don't have it feel free to gloat...



Who's gloating? I'm just saying the noise over this isn't proportionate to the reality. I'm sorry to hear you're having problems, I know you're a real tech guy but shouting bloody murder about it on the internet aint really going to do much for you is it?


----------



## pootle (Jul 11, 2010)

I think the ifonefour is a marvellous, marvellous thing.
If it wasn't for the ifonefour I wouldn't have a lovely 3g. I know I'm a bit late to the party but Jesus and the mary chain! Is this the best thing ever invented or what? An iPod with a phone? And an iPod with a phone with the internet? All in my pocket? Why did no one tell me about this sooner? 

Btw this is my 1st posting from my ipizzle. Thought it was only right it should be here!


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> The iphone4 aerial issue has become so exaggerated its become folklore,  I've began to use the excuse of dropped calls to my advantage, particularly when talking to my bosses.
> 
> I can recreate the 'death grip' on my iP4 and it's now lessened with the bumper, but I feel some of my difficulties are due to o2's coverage. When I have a strong signal I have fewer problems.


I had no problem reducing the coverage on Sunray's iPhone 4 from three bars to zero with a quick bit of death-grippery.

It's still a really lovely phone and I think that if Jobs had just said from the start: "alright we fucked this up a little bit but it's not a massive thing and we'll throw in a free bumper for anyone having problems" I think it would have got far less of a reaction.

Sadly, Jobs doesn't generally "do" apologies or admit to a flawed design.


----------



## Reno (Jul 11, 2010)

I've been trailing a few pages back, but as a newby I can't find much of an introduction. 

Anyway, I'm thinking of taking the plunge and getting an iPhone 4. It's the lomo app that finally convinced me. All I've ever had is a cheapo pay-as-you-go mobile, so I don't know anything about contracts. 

I'm not a heavy phone user, so I'm thinking of getting a £25 contract from Orange. Is that the best way to do it ? Any advice ?


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2010)

Reno said:


> Anyway, I'm thinking of taking the plunge and getting an iPhone 4. It's the lomo app that finally convinced me.


FYI, the Lomo app works on the iPhone 3G/S too so you could save yourself a few quid and pick up an older model - or you could consider getting an Android phone as there's Lomo-like apps available on that platform too.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 11, 2010)

What ed said, Reno. There are still loads of lomo-style apps available for the 3G/3GS, and the price has dropped on those handsets now. You're not going to get the flash, but having used the 3G camera for 18 months I've not really missed it. I'd go for the 3GS over the 3G, mainly because of the improved camera, and because you'll have better luck running iOS4 (allegedly terrible on the 3G, I haven't upgraded mine to it because of it). 

If you're prepared to buy the handset outright, then you can get cheaper contracts, or indeed use PAYG. You also won't need to be tied into a longer contract, as O2 does 12 month or rolling 1 month contracts for the iPhone, and I'm sure other carriers must do something similar.

Saying that, the thing I'm most looking forward to when my iP4 comes (hopefully next week) is the camera. It'll be a substantial upgrade from my 3G, and there are already a couple of nifty new camera apps that only work with the iP4 (like http://incredibooth.com/ from the makers of Hipstamatic).

In terms of good photo apps, I've got loads, and many do similar things. In terms of 'lomo', there is Hipstamatic, which produces a good variety of different, retro styles. An oldy but a goody is CameraBag. Yesterday I stumbled across 2 really fabulous ones for the first time: Plastic Bullet - which randomly produces 4 lomo-esque versions of your picture for you to choose from, and if you don't like them you just reload a new 4. And Photo FX, which is just WOW. There are loads and loads of filters to choose from, and you can build them up like layers, and control the amount of each one. Another great app is Lo-Mob, which produces maybe 20-25 different lo-fi versions of your picture to choose from. All these work great on my 3G.


----------



## Reno (Jul 11, 2010)

I don't have a digital camera at the moment and what tempts me about the iPhone 4 is that the camera is supposed to be really good. If the contract is £25 a month then that's not too bad as I probably use up £15-20 on my mobile phone anyway. That also includes unlimited wifi, right ? It doesn't seem such a bad deal.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 11, 2010)

Methinks you've already convinced yourself  G'wan, go for it


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 11, 2010)

Also, great blog to look at for all things relating to iphone photography: http://lifeinlofi.com/


----------



## Reno (Jul 11, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Methinks you've already convinced yourself  G'wan, go for it



I probably have and I'm having a major gadget craving.  



Vintage Paw said:


> Also, great blog to look at for all things relating to iphone photography: http://lifeinlofi.com/



Cheers !


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 11, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> ...I'd go for the 3GS over the 3G, mainly because of the improved camera, and because you'll have better luck running iOS4 .


Apple have now discontinued the 3G.

I'm contract phobic and much prefer PAYG 

If you have the cash to buy new from an Apple shop  I'd go for the 16GB iP4 at £499 (compared to the 3GS at only 8GB for £419 ) 

Alternatively, there's loads of 2nd hand 3GS's floating about.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2010)

Reno said:


> I don't have a digital camera at the moment and what tempts me about the iPhone 4 is that the camera is supposed to be really good. If the contract is £25 a month then that's not too bad as I probably use up £15-20 on my mobile phone anyway. That also includes unlimited wifi, right ? It doesn't seem such a bad deal.


If you're hellbent on an iPhone, go for it, but you'll be able to get other handsets with cameras as good as - if not better - for a whole load less, and run near identical apps giving you the features you want. 

But if you've taken a shine to the iPhone, then go for it.  

On a related note, Google and Apple are at each other's throats again, with Google being miffed at Steve Jobs' "revisionist" take on the platform's history - http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2010/07/09/larry-page-jobs-is-rewriting-history/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 11, 2010)

Competitors say nasty things about it each other shocker...no surprise really. With Android looking serious in the market place it was only time before Google started making some noises like this.


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2010)

Apple's cheesiest ever adverts?
http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/34236/video-apples-cheesy-facetime-ads

Ad this looks a little, well, cult like, no?







http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/photo/2010-07/10/c_13393451_3.htm


----------



## Callum91 (Jul 12, 2010)

editor said:


> Apple's cheesiest ever adverts?
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/34236/video-apples-cheesy-facetime-ads
> 
> Ad this looks a little, well, cult like, no?
> ...



That advert is alittle...much.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 12, 2010)

Don't like the content much but like the style, more to the point the move away from the apple voice, iPhone and application adverts they usually do.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 12, 2010)

Fuck me, that Shanghai store is epic.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 12, 2010)

Callum91 said:


> That advert is alittle...much.



They just need to ensure that everyone goes round it clockwise and have a shrine with a small stone version of um, dunno, Apple Newton or something that everyone kisses when they enter the store.

Tip: Do not go to the Apple shop on a Saturday afternoon.   Stupid me forgot about that rule.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 12, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Who's gloating? I'm just saying the noise over this isn't proportionate to the reality. I'm sorry to hear you're having problems, I know you're a real tech guy but shouting bloody murder about it on the internet aint really going to do much for you is it?



fecking complaining to apple and o2 is going to do even less tbh...

their stock response is do you want a 3gs then or a new 4... not oh we've sold you summit which actually doesn't work would you like a refund and a phone which works?

They have also claimed they've not had any complaints or indeed heard of any issues ... which is patently a lie.

They also claim it'll be sorted with a software fix which is also a lie.

I'm currently wondering if the OFT will get involved... anyone with these phones who is having this issue in the uk would be covered under the un-merchantable goods legislation and would be entitled to a full refund or replacement.  At present O2 are flat refusing refunds and only offering replacements like some shoddy phone version of dixsons...


----------



## Sunray (Jul 12, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> fecking complaining to apple and o2 is going to do even less tbh...
> 
> their stock response is do you want a 3gs then or a new 4... not oh we've sold you summit which actually doesn't work would you like a refund and a phone which works?
> 
> ...



Have you had it replaced?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 12, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Have you had it replaced?



what both of them doing identical things?

It's not going to be a bad batch as one is 3 weeks older than the other so are bound to be from different batches it's the phone.

also doing a like for like (3 3gs and 4) comparison on the same spots it's defo the 4 which is the issue. the older two are fine which knocks the software recalibration will fix it into a cocked hat really as they all have os4 on them...

it's either o2's signal or the phone or a combination of the two would like to see how a vodaphone or orange 4 behaved tho before giving up on it totally.

but replacement isn't going to cut it.

I love it as a gadget but as a phone it's soo shite...


----------



## editor (Jul 12, 2010)

Seems little debate that the phone has an inherent fault  now:



> After initially saying that the iPhone 4's reception issues were no big deal, Consumer Reports has changed its tune, recognizing that the software fix won't help things, and retracting their recommendation. They just got around to testing it, you see.
> 
> Their engineers have apparently just completed testing of the phone and have discovered it has the reception issues everyone else has known about for weeks:
> 
> ...


http://gizmodo.com/5584887/consumer-reports-changes-its-mind-retracts-iphone-4-recommendation-over-reception-issues

*edit: Engadget have done their own tests which also show that the signal strength issue affects all iPhones
http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/12/consumer-reports-confirms-iphone-4-antenna-problems-and-so-do/


----------



## Sunray (Jul 13, 2010)

I can reproduce the issue, but only if I hold it very awkwardly and the calls I've made and received have been crystal clear, so much better sounding than my old 3G and none has dropped.

Don't make that many calls on it so I am unsure that it will effect me at all.  

I also think that there is a lot Apple could do to help with the problem in software, telling people that it cannot be fixed at all in software is somewhat lacking in imagination.  With the engineering set up that Apple will have available to debug the issue will allow them to do all sorts of interesting things.  Perhaps none will help but I remember that the 3G was a bit flaky with dropped calls when I got that.  They fixed that pretty quickly.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

Is it a really a serious fault if you have to artificially reproduce it and by artificially I mean hold it in a way you do not naturally hold the iPhone?


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I can reproduce the issue, but only if I hold it very awkwardly and the calls I've made and received have been crystal clear, so much better sounding than my old 3G and none has dropped.
> 
> Don't make that many calls on it so I am unsure that it will effect me at all.
> 
> I also think that there is a lot Apple could do to help with the problem in software, telling people that it cannot be fixed at all in software is somewhat lacking in imagination.  With the engineering set up that Apple will have available to debug the issue will allow them to do all sorts of interesting things.  Perhaps none will help but I remember that the 3G was a bit flaky with dropped calls when I got that.  They fixed that pretty quickly.



Its a component placement issue, the software fix is essentially a smoke screen regarding the algo used to calculate the signal bars.

These guys did tests in a RF isolation chamber.

http://blogs.consumerreports.org/el...m-issues-signal-strength-att-network-gsm.html

tl;dr its b0rked, bigtime.


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is it a really a serious fault if you have to artificially reproduce it and by artificially I mean hold it in a way you do not naturally hold the iPhone?



You sure the word you mean is artificially, because nothing in your post is describing something artificial.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 13, 2010)

grit said:


> Its a component placement issue, the software fix is essentially a smoke screen regarding the algo used to calculate the signal bars.
> 
> These guys did tests in a RF isolation chamber.
> 
> ...



You can do all the tests you like in an RF chamber but they are not sitting there with the full engineering development suite hooked up to the iPhone are they?  I can imagine that is what is going on at Apple right now.

With that a suite like that can do is show every last value worth knowing and allow adjustment of those values to see their results.


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> You can do all the tests you like in an RF chamber but they are not sitting there with the full engineering development suite hooked up to the iPhone are they?  I can imagine that is what is going on at Apple right now.
> 
> With that a suite like that can do is show every last value worth knowing and allow adjustment of those values to see their results.



What? it doesn't matter if they dont have internal apple tools. The antenna is where it is, end of. You cant code away that fact.

This is something that was bound to happen at some stage with how the fashion of handsets moved away from an external antenna.


----------



## editor (Jul 13, 2010)

Apple are really losing the plot on this one: they've now started deleting _all mentions_ of the Consumer Reports article from their support forums: 


> Apple drops Consumer Reports/iPhone 4 discussion threads down memory hole
> 
> If you were looking for a message thread on Apple's support forums pointing to Consumer Reports' article 'not recommending' the iPhone 4, it's not there any more. Apple's support forum moderators deleted the thread. Bing cached it.
> 
> ...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 13, 2010)

editor said:


> Seems little debate that the phone has an inherent fault  now:



And little debate that the bulk of consumers don't give a toss.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 13, 2010)

My iPhone 4 has a major problem.

Everytime I dial out or receive a call, the keypad screen blacks out. 
Meaning I can't finish no calls or type in a number if I call automated switchboards (like calling the bank, BT).

Fuckin' taking this back to the shop over the w/end.
Just don't have time for this kinda shite...

http://www.ismashphone.com/2010/07/...problems-with-iphone-4s-proximity-sensor.html


----------



## Sunray (Jul 13, 2010)

grit said:


> What? it doesn't matter if they dont have internal apple tools. The antenna is where it is, end of. You cant code away that fact.
> 
> This is something that was bound to happen at some stage with how the fashion of handsets moved away from an external antenna.



So what your saying is that its 100% certain not a bug with the phones software and cannot in anyway be improved by altering the settings and software of the phone?

Clearly a ridiculous position to take esp as I am having no issue with the phone and some other people are.


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 13, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> My iPhone 4 has a major problem.
> 
> Everytime I dial out or receive a call, the keypad screen blacks out.
> Meaning I can't finish no calls or type in a number if I call automated switchboards (like calling the bank, BT).
> ...



Stupid question, does it come back on if you tap the screen?


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 13, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Stupid question, does it come back on if you tap the screen?



Nope.
It's black but the call is still active.
I tilt the screen and the screen comes back on for a split second before disappearing again.

Oh well, more queueing in the Apple Store for this w/end.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 13, 2010)

Perhaps you've found the magic Apple ticket handset!

You'll get a free tour of Stevie Jobs Chocolate phone factory!


----------



## editor (Jul 13, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> And little debate that the bulk of consumers don't give a toss.


Like I said before, a big spring could sporadically boing out the back and it would probably still sell by the bucketload, but it would be foolish to think that this problem is having zero adverse effect in the minds of consumers. 

Having an independent magazine with 7.3 million subscribers tell people that they can't recommend Apple's flagship product because of a design fault can't be good business.

If only Jobs would just admit that there's a relatively small problem with the handset and give away free bumpers this PR disaster could have been nipped in the bud long ago.

Edit to add: even MacWorld is unimpressed - Apple's arrogance and the iPhone 4 antenna debacle
http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?olo=rss&NewsID=3230555


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 13, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Perhaps you've found the magic Apple ticket handset!
> 
> You'll get a free tour of Stevie Jobs Chocolate phone factory!



Yeah yeah yeah...

oh, and unlike the 3G/GS, this one chips real easy.
Dropped it (slipped out of the case) onto the street the other day.
Has a massive chip on the side - so I suppose, I'll get a replacement this w/end (for all the troubles!)


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 13, 2010)

Oh well. Mine's fine.


----------



## ovaltina (Jul 13, 2010)

A saw a friend last night whose old iphone was nicked on holiday. Now she's got a new Iphone4, and in her words "the fucking poxy piece of shit won't sync with my computer coz I've got the wrong osx, so now I've got no fucking phone numbers". Anyone else had this? Is there a free fix?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 13, 2010)

Trying to upgrade 3GS software to 4 at the moment. 
It keeps saying the thing is not synced so I will lose stuff.
So sync again and it says the same thing. 
Reset the sync history, ran the sync again and it is still saying the same thing.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 13, 2010)

Surely it's the correct version of iTunes? She just needs to upgrade iTunes.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 13, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Trying to upgrade 3GS software to 4 at the moment.
> It keeps saying the thing is not synced so I will lose stuff.
> So sync again and it says the same thing.
> Reset the sync history, ran the sync again and it is still saying the same thing.



How about backing up the 3GS. Right click it and select backup?


----------



## ovaltina (Jul 13, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Surely it's the correct version of iTunes? She just needs to upgrade iTunes.



Dunno - she was moaning about it in the pub but she said it's because she's got osx11 or something  I'll send her an email and suggest upgrading itunes.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> A saw a friend last night whose old iphone was nicked on holiday. Now she's got a new Iphone4, and in her words "the fucking poxy piece of shit won't sync with my computer coz I've got the wrong osx, so now I've got no fucking phone numbers". Anyone else had this? Is there a free fix?


It's possible that she's on a very old version of OSX (would have to be an out-of-date version of 10.4, in which case system update will fix it. Or 10.3 in which case, she really really really should upgrade to 10.5)

Running system update and installing everything is the first port of call.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 13, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> Dunno - she was moaning about it in the pub but she said it's because she's got osx11 or something  I'll send her an email and suggest upgrading itunes.



Same req's as a 3GS..



> Mac system requirements
> Mac computer with USB 2.0 port
> Mac OS X v10.5.8 or later


----------



## ovaltina (Jul 13, 2010)

Thanks for the advice, I'll pass it on


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

grit said:


> You sure the word you mean is artificially, because nothing in your post is describing something artificial.



I disagree but perhaps contrive is a better term.


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I disagree but perhaps contrive is a better term.



Its not if your left handed, or like me as a right handed person regularly hold the phone in your left hand while doing something else with the right.


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> So what your saying is that its 100% certain not a bug with the phones software and cannot in anyway be improved by altering the settings and software of the phone?
> 
> Clearly a ridiculous position to take esp as I am having no issue with the phone and some other people are.



Yes, the issue is caused by the placement of hardware components in the device. The software change apple has made(is making?) is to change how the signal strength bars are calculated.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 13, 2010)

editor said:


> Apple are really losing the plot on this one: they've now started deleting _all mentions_ of the Consumer Reports article from their support forums:



They've always done this censorship of their forums, the fuckers. That's why most people go to MacRumors.

Well there's already a class-action suite against Apple in motion, this reception problem may trigger another one.


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Structaural said:


> They've always done this censorship of their forums, the fuckers. That's why most people go to MacRumors.
> 
> .



FWIW a lot of companies do this.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 13, 2010)

grit said:


> Yes, the issue is caused by the placement of hardware components in the device. The software change apple has made(is making?) is to change how the signal strength bars are calculated.



I will be surprised that some changes to the software and baseband code, like they did on the 3G when it was released will not make at more reliable.

I'm not saying that I am a RF engineer (which people seem to have instantly become) but with the correct people and test equipment and some tweaking I expect Apple to effect an improvement with a software update.


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I will be surprised that some changes to the software and baseband code, like they did on the 3G when it was released will not make at more reliable.
> 
> I'm not saying that I am a RF engineer (which people seem to have instantly become) but with the correct people and test equipment and some tweaking I expect Apple to effect an improvement with a software update.



The signal bars will be far more accurate. There is no requirement to be a RF engineer. Its really basic stuff, the antenna is being covered and shorted by the placement of the hand. Mobile phones in general have suffered loss of signal since the fashion of having an external antenna went away. This is just a very extreme case.

In the case of the 3g is what the software's requirements for a signal that it deemed required to make a call was artificially high, that could be fixed by software. This is an unrelated issue.


----------



## WWWeed (Jul 13, 2010)

Looks like another faulty apple product:



> Despite the fact that loads of people have been clogging up the internet pipes moaning about how shitty Apple’s Time Capsule wireless storage thingy, Apple themselves have only just decided to acknowledge that, indeed, there is a problem with it.
> 
> Thousands of people saw valuable data vanish when the devices failed to power up. Now, Apple is offering free replacements… but there’s a catch.
> 
> ...


taken from http://www.bitterwallet.com/apple-finally-notices-that-their-time-capsule-is-bobbins/31992


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

grit said:


> Its not if your left handed, or like me as a right handed person regularly hold the phone in your left hand while doing something else with the right.



Lefties? Really does anyone care about them?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> And little debate that the bulk of consumers don't give a toss.



Yep, and therein lay the end of the story for normal people...



editor said:


> Like I said before, a big spring could sporadically boing out the back and it would probably still sell by the bucketload, but it would be foolish to think that this problem is having zero adverse effect in the minds of consumers.
> 
> Having an independent magazine with 7.3 million subscribers tell people that they can't recommend Apple's flagship product because of a design fault can't be good business.
> 
> ...



I'll make a prediction, this will have no affect on iPhone sales, in fact sales of the iPhone will continue to go up.


----------



## ovaltina (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'll make a prediction, this will have no affect on iPhone sales, in fact sales of the iPhone will continue to go up.



That's the sort of thinking that got British Leyland where it is today!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 13, 2010)

I had an Allegro once. It was nothing like my iPhones...


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, and therein lay the end of the story for normal people...
> 
> 
> 
> I'll make a prediction, this will have no affect on iPhone sales, in fact sales of the iPhone will continue to go up.



I agree, however I think this is going to lose them the nerd vote so to speak. The regular consumer on the street will not give a fuck. 

This is another boost for android


----------



## Kanda (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lefties? Really does anyone care about them?



I'm left handed and can't even fucking re-create the problem!!


----------



## Sunray (Jul 13, 2010)

grit said:


> The signal bars will be far more accurate. There is no requirement to be a RF engineer. Its really basic stuff, the antenna is being covered and shorted by the placement of the hand. Mobile phones in general have suffered loss of signal since the fashion of having an external antenna went away. This is just a very extreme case.
> 
> In the case of the 3g is what the software's requirements for a signal that it deemed required to make a call was artificially high, that could be fixed by software. This is an unrelated issue.



Shorted?  Dunno about you but my fingers aren't made of metal.  They are conductive but its got to be M ohms resistance.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 13, 2010)

Has updated now


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Shorted?  Dunno about you but my fingers aren't made of metal.  They are conductive but its got to be M ohms resistance.



Sorry that was the incorrect word to use.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 13, 2010)

Downloaded and feels good but hard to spot differences at the moment. 
How do I set up the folders to store apps?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

grit said:


> I agree, however I think this is going to lose them the nerd vote so to speak. The regular consumer on the street will not give a fuck.
> 
> This is another boost for android



And the regular punter on the street out number the nerd by about 10000:1. I'm pretty sure Apple won't lose any sleep over losing that bunch of wingers...



Kanda said:


> I'm left handed and can't even fucking re-create the problem!!



Oh man, you must have something wrong with you! Everyone knows this can be replicated with the easiest weird ass way of holding your iPhone!


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And the regular punter on the street out number the nerd by about 10000:1. I'm pretty sure Apple won't lose any sleep over losing that bunch of wingers...



So? Doesn't change the fact the phone is faulty by design.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 13, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Downloaded and feels good but hard to spot differences at the moment.
> How do I set up the folders to store apps?



Get them all wiggling by holding and then drag one onto another.  It guesses the name from the type of the app you drag onto the other app, but you can change it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

grit said:


> So? Doesn't change the fact the phone is faulty by design.



Faulty if you hold it in an artificial manner.


----------



## editor (Jul 13, 2010)

It's actually quite easy to replicate the problem if you're (a) left handed or (b) on speakerphone or (c) holding in a fairly normal manner and those affected have legitimate cause to complain about what has been proven to be a design defect. 

For some it may not be an issue at all, but trying to dismiss or belittle anyone suffering this problem really is rather bizarre behaviour.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 13, 2010)

grit said:


> So? Doesn't change the fact the phone is faulty by design.



Indeed.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Faulty if you hold it in an artificial manner.



Don't be silly. A faulty product is a faulty product. If this was anything other than Apple you'd see that.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 13, 2010)

> That said, if you want your data to be saved, then you’ll need to go to one of those horrible Apple Stores where meek people in linen trousers all silently grin at each other.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

editor said:


> It's actually quite easy to replicate the problem if you're (a) left handed or (b) on speakerphone or (c) holding in a fairly normal manner and those affected have legitimate cause to complain about what has been proven to be a design defect.
> 
> For some it may not be an issue at all, but trying to dismiss or belittle anyone suffering this problem really is rather bizarre behaviour.



LOL! Suffering is starving in some 'developing' nation not not being able to make a call on your 500 pound phone! 

It is trivial because it's not the majority experience, millions of units have been sold, how many actual complaints based on real world experience (as opposed to a bunch of geeks trying to replicate it so they can hate Apple more!)?? 

I doubt the numbers even make a percentage point...


----------



## Kanda (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh man, you must have something wrong with you! Everyone knows this can be replicated with the easiest weird ass way of holding your iPhone!



I've literally followed all the tutorial videos and can't! Maybe I am non-conductive or something  I'm even left handed!!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Don't be silly. A faulty product is a faulty product. If this was anything other than Apple you'd see that.



Oh man I can't believe you're foolish enough to buy into that narrative...I aint defending Apple I'm questioning the hysterical outcry over this. 

In the greater scheme of things, ie the millions who are using their phones with no problem, this matters little. It's called gaining a perspective...


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> LOL! Suffering is starving in some 'developing' nation not not being able to make a call on your 500 pound phone!


What?  WTF are you on about?  His use of the word was perfectly acceptable.

I have an iPhone 4 on the way btw.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I've literally followed all the tutorial videos and can't! Maybe I am non-conductive or something  I'm even left handed!!



There has to be something wrong with you! Maybe your sickening level of fanboism has given you a protective field, a distortion field if you will...


----------



## twistedAM (Jul 13, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Downloaded and feels good but hard to spot differences at the moment.
> How do I set up the folders to store apps?



From Apple site; worked for me.



> To create a folder, you simply touch and hold an app until it wiggles, then drag it on top of another. iOS 4 automatically assigns a name to your folder based on the category of the apps inside it, or you can choose your own name.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> What?  WTF are you on about?  His use of the word was perfectly acceptable.
> 
> I have an iPhone 4 on the way btw.



Suffering is a ridiculous word to use for a phone dropping calls. 

Toward the end of my Palm Centro the thing would drop calls, go silent so people couldn't hear or just not make calls something like 60% of the time. I didn't suffer, I found it irritating and went and got a new phone. 

Real suffering doesn't come from bad phone reception.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Suffering is a ridiculous word to use for a phone dropping calls.
> 
> Toward the end of my Palm Centro the thing would drop calls, go silent so people couldn't hear or just not make calls something like 60% of the time. I didn't suffer, I found it irritating and went and got a new phone.
> 
> Real suffering doesn't come from bad phone reception.



It's you that's being ridiculous.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 13, 2010)

Faulty would imply that it didn't work as a phone, but even though I can easily reproduce the issue, what I can't do is stop the phone working.

This might be because of where I am.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Suffering is a ridiculous word to use for a phone dropping calls.
> 
> Toward the end of my Palm Centro the thing would drop calls, go silent so people couldn't hear or just not make calls something like 60% of the time. I didn't suffer, I found it irritating and went and got a new phone.
> 
> Real suffering doesn't come from bad phone reception.



I think suffering is a perfectly fine word to use in this instance. There are, of course, various degrees of suffering and so a direct comparison between starving to death and losing phone calls due to a design fault can't be drawn, but it doesn't mean the same word can't be used.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh man I can't believe you're foolish enough to buy into that narrative...



What narrative? 

Yep, the flaw has been massively over-hyped, but it doesn't stop it being a design fault.


----------



## WWWeed (Jul 13, 2010)

I swear the iPhone could be made from the blood of orphan puppies and require a human sacrifice in order to receive a call, and people will still buy it. If it was my money I'd be pretty annoyed, especially when apple haven't actually acknowledged an a hardware problem (they are still blaming software). 

It looks like apple are removing threads about the Consumer Reports findings:


> The iPhone 4 antenna debacle has upped the paranoia levels in Apple's support forums as moderators reportedly nix any mention of Consumer Reports' volte face on the talking light slab.
> 
> Consumer Reports had previously given its blessing to the iPhone 4, but did a U-turn yesterday.
> 
> ...



http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/07/13/iphone_support/


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Faulty would imply that it didn't work as a phone, but even though I can easily reproduce the issue, what I can't do is stop the phone working.
> 
> This might be because of where I am.



No, me neither.

But let's not stop the hysterical shrieking on the internet! Apple iz raping their customers, man! Fight the powerz!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 13, 2010)

Let me put it like this.

I bought my iPhone 4 knowing all about this "major design flaw". And it's fine. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I suspect not.

I feel for you if yours isn't, but if you knew, who's fault is it? It's a _phone_. If it's that bad, take it back, get a different handset, get the fuck over it...


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 13, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Let me put it like this.
> 
> I bought my iPhone 4 knowing all about this "major design flaw". And it's fine. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I suspect not.
> 
> I feel for you if yours isn't, but if you knew, who's fault is it? It's a _phone_. If it's that bad, take it back, get a different handset, get the fuck over it...



You also appear to have missed the point.

A major product has a flaw that to a percentage of people is a problem. Not a massive deal, it happens all the time. The hoo haa is because of Apple's 'so what?' response. Not because of the flaw.

And bollocks to the "it's only a phone, get over it" line. It's an expensive product that sells itself on exceptional user experience.


----------



## ovaltina (Jul 13, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> If it was my money I'd be pretty annoyed, especially when apple haven't actually acknowledged an a hardware problem (they are still blaming software).



Me too. I spent £200 on one of Sony's notoriously bad early MP3 players (NWA3000) a few years ago and was so annoyed by its crapness, and the company's indifference, that I decided never to buy Sony again. At the time I wasted countless hours on the internet trying to find software that would make the thing work, and came across a lot of other people who were furious at Sony.

Then I bought an Xbox 360, again for about £200, and had similar problems with Microsoft. I won't be buying their shit again either.

All companies make mistakes - look at Toyota - but if they refuse to do anything about it, surely they should expect their customers to go elsewhere.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 13, 2010)

Apple have said they'll take any phone back up to 30 days after sale.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 13, 2010)

ovaltina said:


> All companies make mistakes - look at Toyota - but if they refuse to do anything about it, surely they should expect their customers to go elsewhere.



Exactamundo!

The Xbox being a good example... when MS realised it was failing at an unacceptable rate they offered replacements and extended the warranty for that error.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 13, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Apple have said they'll take any phone back up to 30 days after sale.



Not really the point. That falls into the "So, just return it if you don't want it" category. 

They should be offering free bumpers to affected users, or even boxing them with them.


----------



## tarannau (Jul 13, 2010)

Only the iphone isn't failing in anything like the 30% of the XBox. Something like 70 testers we have on the iphone4 worldwide, with not one reporting this issue either prior of after this furore. They're hardly melting down internally or displaying a glowing red ring of death

I still can't even replicate the issue in this office! I must have the wrong type of hands


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 13, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> You also appear to have missed the point.
> 
> A major product has a flaw that to a percentage of people is a problem. Not a massive deal, it happens all the time. The hoo haa is because of Apple's 'so what?' response. Not because of the flaw.
> 
> And bollocks to the "it's only a phone, get over it" line. It's an expensive product that sells itself on exceptional user experience.



Yawn. Dullard.

You aren't even remoted affected, but don't let that stop you having a good old moan, expressing the depth of your _outrage_!

As you can see, people are deeply interested in being condescended to by the likes of you.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 13, 2010)

Just lick your fingers and place them over the bottom two cuts in the metal and wait a minute or two.  The bars will go down.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 13, 2010)

tarannau said:


> I still can't even replicate the issue in this office! I must have the wrong type of hands



How DARE you attempt to demean this _incredibly serious_ issue with humour?


----------



## WWWeed (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And the regular punter on the street out number the nerd by about 10000:1. I'm pretty sure Apple won't lose any sleep over losing that bunch of wingers...
> 
> Oh man, you must have something wrong with you! Everyone knows this can be replicated with the easiest weird ass way of holding your iPhone!



Given the average apple user has difficulty setting a VCR, how are they going to know about these issues unless they are told this? I mean apple arent going to advertise these issues, and after all who genrally posts on message boards? nerds, thats who! Do you really expect people to put up and shut up?

The signal issue has a number of variables that come into play, for example signal strength and the conductivity (i.e sweatiness) of your hand. I'll admit the issue isn't the end of the world, but if I missed an important call because of it I know I wouldn't be happy. I will explain the issue more when I have some time.



stupid dogbot said:


> No, me neither.
> 
> But let's not stop the hysterical shrieking on the internet! Apple iz raping their customers, man! Fight the powerz!



stop the fanboizm and we'll stop posting the bitchy apple stories. 



stupid dogbot said:


> Let me put it like this.
> 
> I bought my iPhone 4 knowing all about this "major design flaw". And it's fine. Maybe I'm just lucky, but I suspect not.
> 
> I feel for you if yours isn't, but if you knew, who's fault is it? It's a _phone_. If it's that bad, take it back, get a different handset, get the fuck over it...



well quite. But don't go around saying its the best phone out there when it has problems (admittedly only in certain situations) making phone calls.

As a mobile software developer the iphone has been really very interesting. It seems people would rather prittyness and ease of use over functionality and reliability, something to bear in mind in future app design....


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 13, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Apple have said they'll take any phone back up to 30 days after sale.


Isn't that just in the US?



ChrisFilter said:


> They should be offering free bumpers to affected users, or even boxing them with them.


Have you tried asking for one?

I got mine for free.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 13, 2010)

I've not said anything remotely regarding it being the best phone out there, nor even to the best of my knowledge suggested any comparison. For a start, I know nothing about any of the other handsets.

All that really matters to me is that I have a fully working handset again. Fully. 

Tbh, I couldn't care less if you continue to post bitchy stories. I'd suggest you do, because you won't ever stop me or anyone else much buying Apple gear, but it's amusing seeing the collective seething of a few folks on the internet*. Have fun searching the blogsphere for exciting little vignettes of poor, abused users not getting what they expected. Must be hella rewarding. 

*ie, here on Urban, not the entire internet


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Faulty if you hold it in an artificial manner.



There we go again, that word doesn't mean what you think it means. 

Either way it seems a far assumption that a handheld device such as a phone should be capable of functioning correctly however it is held.


----------



## grit (Jul 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Faulty would imply that it didn't work as a phone, but even though I can easily reproduce the issue, what I can't do is stop the phone working.
> 
> This might be because of where I am.



The tests I've seen and read about conclude that in a area of strong signal it will not drop the call, the issue occurs when in an area with less than optimal signal.


----------



## tarannau (Jul 13, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> Given the average apple user has difficulty setting a VCR, how are they going to know about these issues unless they are told this? .



Jesus christ, I know you've got some unhealthy obsession and bugbear about Apple and their users, but do you have to write such uninformed, random bullshit. Why the hell are you stuck in 1985 and talking about VCRs for a start? Feel free to provide some stats to back this remarkable assertion up, or frankly grow up a little.

Strangely enough some people who buy Apple are ever bit, if not more, tech adept than yourself. They may even manage to sound a little more relevant and less obsessed.

As for your last line it's laughable - we have no idea of the iphone 4's long term reliability, nor does this issue affect functionality in the vast majority of users that I've talked to, both personally and at work. Leave the moralising guesswork and inaccuracies at the door for a change, please. You come across like a right flapjack


----------



## Kanda (Jul 13, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Just lick your fingers and place them over the bottom two cuts in the metal and wait a minute or two.  The bars will go down.



Still can't re-create!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 13, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> Given the average apple user has difficulty setting a VCR



Lol, said a self-professed coder.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 13, 2010)

Feel free to make a disparaging remark about network engineers in return, btw.


----------



## Pie 1 (Jul 13, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> Given the average apple user has difficulty setting a VCR,



Cock.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 13, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Yawn. Dullard.
> 
> You aren't even remoted affected, but don't let that stop you having a good old moan, expressing the depth of your _outrage_!
> 
> As you can see, people are deeply interested in being condescended to by the likes of you.



I haven't expressed any outrage - in fact, this is the first time I've commented on it 

I was driven to by the "Ah well, it's only a phone, who cares?" comments which made me think "Er... hold on a minute."

The point stands that denying and evading faults with your product set isn't cool and shouldn't be passed off with a "Who cares?" dismissal.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jul 13, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> How DARE you attempt to demean this _incredibly serious_ issue with humour?



I haven't ever claimed it's 'incredibly serious' either, monkey man 

You forget I'm an iPhone fan. I just think Apple's handling of it has been worthy of note.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> Given the average apple user has difficulty setting a VCR, how are they going to know about these issues unless they are told this?



Yep hence my posts about people needing to get a grip. But you know the anti apple brigade love nothing more than to complain about everything Apple does. 

To be clear Apple have handled this badly, they should have just offered the bumper free with each purchase, they shouldn't be deleting all reference to the reception thing on their forums. But neither should an issue that affects a tiny proportion of the millions who own the device should be reported or commented on as if it's wide spread causing suicide provoking misery. 

It's getting so silly I expect there will be calls for a UN resolution against Apple soon...


----------



## Crispy (Jul 13, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep hence my posts about people needing to get a *grip*.



Arf!


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 13, 2010)

100% masahiko said:


> Nope.
> It's black but the call is still active.
> I tilt the screen and the screen comes back on for a split second before disappearing again.
> 
> Oh well, more queueing in the Apple Store for this w/end.



I'm as slow as a fish.
Tech support said it was my case, that it covered the sensor on top of the ear piece - and not the phone. He was right.

Feel stupid


----------



## WWWeed (Jul 13, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Jesus christ, I know you've got some unhealthy obsession and bugbear about Apple and their users, but do you have to write such uninformed, random bullshit. Why the hell are you stuck in 1985 and talking about VCRs for a start? Feel free to provide some stats to back this remarkable assertion up, or frankly grow up a little.
> 
> Strangely enough some people who buy Apple are ever bit, if not more, tech adept than yourself. They may even manage to sound a little more relevant and less obsessed.
> 
> As for your last line it's laughable - we have no idea of the iphone 4's long term reliability, nor does this issue affect functionality in the vast majority of users that I've talked to, both personally and at work. Leave the moralising guesswork and inaccuracies at the door for a change, please. You come across like a right flapjack



Just because I post something you don't agree with doesn't mean its bullshit. In fact maybe you can point out what I have posted that is bullshit (other than the VCR comment obviously). 

I dont feel I have unhealthy obsession and bugbear about Apple, in fact going on the number of posts in this topic I'd say you have more of an unhealthy obsession than me  



Pie 1 said:


> Cock.



 Have I touched a nerve?

Fair enough its a cheap dig but I've had enough. Maybe I went overboard with the VCR comment 

As a software developer I think I have a reason to hate them. Have a look at there draconian developer agreement.

Apple prohibits any kind of reverse engineering of the SDK or iPhone OS, including what the EFF claims are "the kinds of reverse engineering for interoperability that courts have recognized as a fair use under copyright law".

Then there's the edict that a dev cannot "disable, hack, or otherwise interfere with" not just the iPhone OS and SDK, but also "any services or other Apple software or technology". This means Apple has made efforts to prevent Apple devices from interoperating with a lot of open source software.

But wait, there's more. In the Agreement's "Limitation of Liability" section, Apple states that it can never be held liable for damages - other than those involving personal injury - that "exceed the amount of fifty dollars". In other words, if the App Store police decide to axe your app for any reason, all damages resulting from your loss of development, marketing, and other expenses can't amount to more than what the EFF calls "the cost of a nice dinner for one in Cupertino".

The runaway popularity of the iPhone and the promise of an equally game-changing iPad provide Apple with the muscle it needs to exert draconian control over developers. If you want to get aboard Apple's gravy train, you have no option other than to agree to the Agreement - and even if you follow Apple's directives to the letter, Apple may, in the words of the Agreement, "reject Your Application for distribution for any reason, even if Your Application meets the Documentation and Program Requirements".

This means I could spend 1000s of pounds and man hours developing an application only for them to reject my application without reason. And this is before we get to the design flaws that apple wont acknowledge.

The reasoning behind Apple's seeming arbitrariness and demonstrable capriciousness was explained over 30 years ago by comedienne Lily Tomlin when she lampooned "the Phone Company" with a mocking summary of their attitude to customer service: "We don't care. We don't have to."

and yes I'm sorry if I despise apple users for encouraging this behaviour by letting apple constantly shaft them.


----------



## WWWeed (Jul 13, 2010)

WWWeed said:


> Just because I post something you don't agree with doesn't mean its bullshit. In fact maybe you can point out what I have posted that is bullshit (other than the VCR comment obviously).



In fact don't worry. It wasn't my intention to piss people off but to provide facts and let people make there own decision. 

I'm not gonna read this thread any more because I'm just going to piss people off.......


----------



## tarannau (Jul 13, 2010)

Yeah, give us more facts like the VCR comment and talk about reliability issues, despite almost certainly having no indication of long term repair or return rates.

Facts eh. Don't deceive yourself.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 13, 2010)

I agree that most Apple users can't set a VCR - fact.



_Posted from my employer's Powermac G5_


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 13, 2010)

What's a VCR - is it like a slide rule?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 13, 2010)

I've been playing a few games I've got from FAAD and two have really been annoying me and are addictive as anything.

Dreamscape and Tilt to Live.  

Both are great games and are well worth their sale price, esp Dreamscape.  Real tube time time wasters.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Arf!





The irony is lost on them...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 13, 2010)

"I think there's something wrong with this phone, but I can't quite put my finger on it."


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

Was Consumer Reports study flawed:

http://www.tipb.com/2010/07/13/consumer-reports-iphone-4-antenna-problem-study-flawed/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2010)

Greenpeace feeling the Apple love, slates Dell:



> Greenpeace — the fly in the ointment for tech firms — is lauding Apple while chastising Dell this morning. The do-gooders sent out a note pointing out that, while Apple’s wildly popular iPhone’s are free of PVC plastic and brominated flame retardants (BFRs) (two nasty chemicals), Dell still hasn’t implemented its previous commitment to eliminate the two chemicals by the end of 2009.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 14, 2010)

Here are some extra words on the signal issue...

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/13/yes-the-iphone-4-is-broken-no-the-iphone-4-is-not-broken/

Seems like its dependant on your reception and the phone, if its shit reception and you hold it funny and the phone doesn't like how you look your in big trouble.


----------



## editor (Jul 14, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Greenpeace feeling the Apple love, slates Dell:


Nice selective spin there, but Apple have actually gone *down *in their ratings and remain in fifth place, far behind leaders Nokia, who managed to _improve_ on their previous performance.

For the largest technology company on the planet, they're not exactly leading by example, are they?

Dell, on the other hand, have managed a substantial improvement, moving up from 14th to 10th place, and only 0.6 points behind Apple.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 14, 2010)

What's the current best alternative to the iPhone 4 (not for me, for a friend)?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 14, 2010)

Structaural said:


> What's the current best alternative to the iPhone 4 (not for me, for a friend)?


iphone 3GS


----------



## Structaural (Jul 14, 2010)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 14, 2010)

editor said:


> Nice selective spin there, but Apple have actually gone *down *in their ratings and remain in fifth place, far behind leaders Nokia, who managed to _improve_ on their previous performance.
> 
> For the largest technology company on the planet, they're not exactly leading by example, are they?
> 
> Dell, on the other hand, have managed a substantial improvement, moving up from 14th to 10th place, and only 0.6 points behind Apple.



Hey I didn't write the article! I notice that Lenevo are rock bottom with Nintendo...


----------



## pesh (Jul 14, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I agree that most Apple users can't set a VCR - fact.


because they threw it out at the end of the 90s


----------



## Sunray (Jul 14, 2010)

pesh said:


> because they threw it out at the end of the 90s


 
That late?


----------



## pootle (Jul 14, 2010)

Right, so I've downloaded and installed (I think) ISO4 for my 3g...but I can't tell any difference.

What's the point of it then?


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 14, 2010)

pootle said:


> Right, so I've downloaded and installed (I think) ISO4 for my 3g...but I can't tell any difference.
> 
> What's the point of it then?



A lot of the new features aren't available on the the 3G (like multitasking), but one new one that is is folders; drag one app over another one and they get put into a folder - useful for keeping things tidy if you've got pages and pages of apps.


----------



## pootle (Jul 14, 2010)

pesh said:


> because they threw it out at the end of the 90s



Yo! Pesh! Hullo!


----------



## pootle (Jul 14, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> A lot of the new features aren't available on the the 3G (like multitasking), but one new one that is is folders; drag one app over another one and they get put into a folder - useful for keeping things tidy if you've got pages and pages of apps.



Really? Where are these folders?  Are they on the home screen type thingy or whatever it is.

And multitasking? You mean I could for example on one screen have both a text message open whilst playing a game?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 14, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> A lot of the new features aren't available on the the 3G (like multitasking), but one new one that is is folders; drag one app over another one and they get put into a folder - useful for keeping things tidy if you've got pages and pages of apps.



Thank you.
I was trying to work this out.

Also where is my camera zoom?


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 14, 2010)

pootle said:


> Really? Where are these folders?  Are they on the home screen type thingy or whatever it is.


Just click and hold an app icon until they all start to wiggle, then drag one over another and you'll see what I mean



> And multitasking? You mean I could for example on one screen have both a text message open whilst playing a game?


There's an explanation of it here.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 14, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Thank you.
> I was trying to work this out.
> 
> Also where is my camera zoom?



Is there no zoom on the 3g under iOS 4?  There is on my iPhone 4.

There is an app that gives you digital zoom, it's called Camera Plus.  It also gives you a "flash" (by tweaking the picture).


----------



## editor (Jul 14, 2010)

Digital zoom is rubbish on any device you care to mention, and the 'flash' effect just ramps up the ISO to give you a fairly horrid image full of grain.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 14, 2010)

ALWAYS disable digital zoom.


Zoom it on a rip off copy of PaintShop Pro and the like back at home on your PC and the quality will be far superior.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 14, 2010)




----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 14, 2010)

editor said:


> Digital zoom is rubbish on any device you care to mention, and the 'flash' effect just ramps up the ISO to give you a fairly horrid image full of grain.





Gromit said:


> ALWAYS disable digital zoom.


The iPhone doesn't have an adjustable lens, so it's digital zoom or nothing.



> Zoom it on a rip off copy of PaintShop Pro and the like back at home on your PC and the quality will be far superior.


Of course that's always an option.


----------



## editor (Jul 14, 2010)

Looks like the antenna issues are starting to have an impact in the real world now too, with the Telegraph reporting: "There are bad reviews and then there are bad reviews. Apple, the technology company, has seen over £6.5bn wiped off its value after an influential US magazine criticised the latest version of its iPhone."

Apple really needs to do _something_ over this issue as even Mac sites think it's a disaster:

Apple's iPhone 4 Fiasco: There's no good way out
http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?olo=rss&NewsID=3230809

*Update*: "It appears as though Apple will be holding a press conference this Friday, June 16th, at 10AM Pacific Time to finally — officially – address the iPhone 4 antenna circus issue."
http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/14/apple-press/

Oh, and it looks like the OS 4.1 update doesn't fix anything - http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/07/14/nope-ios-4-1-doesnt-fix-the-death-grip-antenna-issue/


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 15, 2010)

Apple is to hold news conference at its HQ tomorrow over its problematic iPhone 4, I just heard

EDIT..oops just saw Ed already mentioned.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 15, 2010)

I seem to have managed to scratch the back of this phone! Which means I am nervous about the front but there isn't anything out there to protect it yet.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 15, 2010)

All phones had an often underused secret zoom feature.

Get closer.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 15, 2010)

Screen protector films for the old models should fit this one shouldn't they? Worth getting for any gadget beyond the cheapest.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 15, 2010)

*Apple news conference tomorrow*


----------



## g force (Jul 15, 2010)

The most astounding issue is not that there's a problem, clearly there is a very real problem for some users even if it is a small number. Its that such a PR and marketing savvy company like Apple has completely and utterly fucked this up from day one in its approach.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 15, 2010)

Folders are good on the 4 software but I really wish that it was easier to move the app buttons about on the phone or in iTunes


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 15, 2010)

According to the BBC the Apple briefing is today (15th)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10641910



Badgers said:


> Folders are good on the 4 software but I really wish that it was easier to move the app buttons about on the phone or in iTunes



How is it not easy?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 15, 2010)

My iPhone 4 arrived this morning. (Apple's attempt at allowing me to track it was laughable, but I have it now.)

Restoring and syncing my old settings now. New sim activated within minutes, super speedy. I guess it's because not every O2 user was trying to do the same at the same time.

Phone is heavier than the 3G. The bumper is less than inspiring, but will be firmly attached to the phone until I get one of the new incase cases when they come out later this month. Haven't used it for a call or text yet. wi-fi connection is strong. First thing I did was realised I grabbed it with my left hand covering the black strip  Nothing drastic happened. 

It's very pretty. Glass doesn't attract smudges anywhere near as much as the old one - they still happen, just not as annoyingly so. 

Can't wait to get a proper case. My 3G was never out of one, so I feel antsy.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 15, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> My iPhone 4 arrived this morning. (Apple's attempt at allowing me to track it was laughable, but I have it now.)


Did they send it via TNT like they did mine?  I just logged onto TNT's website and entered the delivery reference number Apple gave me and full tracking info was available.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 15, 2010)

Despite having been able to reproduce the signal drop a couple of times, I was demoing my phone yesterday for a colleague who asked to see it can could not get it to drop signal at all.

Before anyone has a conniption, btw, I made sure he was aware of there being other choices.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 15, 2010)

The _4_ is a mere 2 grams heavier than the _3GS_ (137g vs 135g)

It seems heavier because it's packed tighter, but if both models were handed to you in sealed boxes, you wouldn't be able to tell the difference


----------



## editor (Jul 15, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> According to the BBC the Apple briefing is today (15th)
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-10641910


No, it's Friday and that article also says the 16th. It's going to be fun seeing how Apple get out of this one. 

Free bumpers? Gift vouchers? More denial?  I can't see a product recall happening, but with the antenna issue making the mainstream news internationally, it's got to start hurting sales soon - or at least putting a seed of doubt in people's minds.

It's all very un-Apple-like.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 15, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Can't wait to get a proper case. My 3G was never out of one, so I feel antsy.



Yes, invest in a case ASAP.
I dropped mine once, and the side is chipped


----------



## Structaural (Jul 15, 2010)

could be they're coating newer iPhones:

http://gizmodo.com/5587029/iphone-4-silent-recall-some-readers-confirm


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 15, 2010)

editor said:


> No, it's Friday and that article also says the 16th.


They've changed it.  When I posted it said the 15th.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 15, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> Did they send it via TNT like they did mine?  I just logged onto TNT's website and entered the delivery reference number Apple gave me and full tracking info was available.



No, UPS.

I got an email on 7th from Apple saying they'd shipped it, with a link to track it. It took me to my order. Which had another link that said 'track this shipment'. When I clicked on that I got a page that said it shipped on 7th, del. estimate was 20th, carrier details to be updated shortly. 

It still said carrier details to be updated shortly last night when I checked again, and it mysteriously turned up this morning. It now, obv., says delivered, and carrier details have been updated to UPS. All pretty pointless and annoying.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 15, 2010)

I was in bed when the delivery man knocked on the door. I looked frightfully grotesque when I answered


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 15, 2010)

In other news, why can't I move my folders around like I can normal apps? Grr. I've spent all this time creating lovely folders, and now they're stuck on a fucking page all by themselves. Only way to move them all to the front page it would seem is to take everything back out and make sure when I start the folder again it's where I want it to be.

/rage


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 15, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> In other news, why can't I move my folders around like I can normal apps? Grr. I've spent all this time creating lovely folders, and now they're stuck on a fucking page all by themselves. Only way to move them all to the front page it would seem is to take everything back out and make sure when I start the folder again it's where I want it to be.
> 
> /rage



I can move them about fine.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 15, 2010)

Then why can't I? They won't move like apps. They wiggle. But they won't move.

Ignore me. It works now. Grr.

I've managed to get everything on one page, except 1 fucking thing. That's going to fuck me off no end


----------



## g force (Jul 15, 2010)

editor said:


> No, it's Friday and that article also says the 16th. It's going to be fun seeing how Apple get out of this one.
> 
> Free bumpers? Gift vouchers? More denial?  I can't see a product recall happening, but with the antenna issue making the mainstream news internationally, it's got to start hurting sales soon - or at least putting a seed of doubt in people's minds.
> 
> It's all very un-Apple-like.



A product recall won't happen. Simply won't.

Best guess would be free bumpers to any iPhone 4 owner at any Apple store (have to go their physically to collect). Be nice gesture to maybe also give free iTunes/App Store downloads - on iTunes where it recognises you have an iPhone 4 and gives you automatic £10 credit for whatever you want to use it for.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 15, 2010)

editor said:


> No, it's Friday and that article also says the 16th. It's going to be fun seeing how Apple get out of this one.
> 
> Free bumpers? Gift vouchers? More denial?  I can't see a product recall happening, but with the antenna issue making the mainstream news internationally, it's got to start hurting sales soon - or at least putting a seed of doubt in people's minds.
> 
> It's all very un-Apple-like.



The kind of people that buy iphones aren't really going to be put off by something like this.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 15, 2010)

It's all just another reason why nobody should ever get an expensive new bit of kit until its been out for a while. Let the fanboys rant about the problems, and just sit back a few weeks while it quietly gets sorted out - then buy a model that works.

Common sense. Simple common sense.


----------



## editor (Jul 15, 2010)

teuchter said:


> The kind of people that buy iphones aren't really going to be put off by something like this.


I'd normally agree, but when the issue attracts massive media coverage and even gets ridiculed on mainstream comedy shows in the US, there's a chance that some potential purchasers may be prompted to look at alternative handsets while the issue remains unresolved.

Apple's whole USP is ease of use and 'it just works.' It isn't working out too good for them at the moment.





skyscraper101 said:


> It's all just another reason why nobody should ever get an expensive new bit of kit until its been out for a while. Let the fanboys rant about the problems, and just sit back a few weeks while it quietly gets sorted out - then buy a model that works.
> 
> Common sense. Simple common sense.


A lot of Apple fans aren't usually the type to wait for new products. Some like to queue. And high five.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Folders are good on the 4 software but I really wish that it was easier to move the app buttons about on the phone or in iTunes



How do you mean?


----------



## Structaural (Jul 15, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> It's all just another reason why nobody should ever get an expensive new bit of kit until its been out for a while. Let the fanboys rant about the problems, and just sit back a few weeks while it quietly gets sorted out - then buy a model that works.
> 
> Common sense. Simple common sense.



Old but pertinent:


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 15, 2010)

Well I'm mostly enjoying playing around with it so far. Display is very sharp, we all know that though. Camera seems to be a massive improvement over my 3G. Video! (Only used for videoing the cat yowling mercilessly because he wants feeding.) That quick switching malarkey is swish. 

Have put the bumper on it. It stops the fucker slipping off the arm of the sofa, at least 

This is a fun little app: http://incredibooth.com/ and on a related note, swankolab, which I had previously discounted because it takes so long to use, is much quicker. Not instant, but I guess that's part of the point of it. Having been used to the 3G camera, I'm more than happy with the quality of the digital zoom.

I'll feel much better when I've got a good case though. The bumper's okay (massively overpriced), but I'd like that back glass panel protected.


----------



## grit (Jul 15, 2010)

The media in the states are really taking the piss out of it now.

Letterman's 10 ways you know you bought a bad iPhone (number 1 was actually kinda funny).

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/07/1...-top-10-signs-youve-purchased-a-bad-iphone-4/


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 15, 2010)

iOS 4.0.1 for iPhone is now available via iTunes.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> iOS 4.0.1 for iPhone is now available via iTunes.



What's new?


----------



## editor (Jul 15, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's new?


All-new, all-bigger "improved" signal bars (really!). 







[more]


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2010)

editor said:


> All-new, all-bigger "improved" signal bars (really!).



Er, what?!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 15, 2010)

> Improves the formula to determine how many bars of signal strength to display



http://www.tuaw.com/2010/07/15/ios-4-0-1-software-update-is-available-for-download/


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 15, 2010)

A snip at 579MB to display fewer bars....


----------



## editor (Jul 15, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> http://www.tuaw.com/2010/07/15/ios-4-0-1-software-update-is-available-for-download/


Some eyebrows have been raised at this formula rebaking, prompting New York Senator Charles Schumer to write an open letter to Steve Jobs:





> I further urge Apple to issue a written explanation of the formula it uses to calculate bar strength, so that consumers can once again trust the product that they have invested in
> 
> http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010/07/15/schumer-letter-jobs/



As an aside, I've been writing about tech stuff for something like 15 years now, and this has to be one of the worst managed PR episodes I've ever seen from a major company.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 15, 2010)

editor said:


> Some eyebrows have been raised at this formula rebaking, prompting New York Senator Charles Schumer to write an open letter to Steve Jobs:


The Senator could do worse than look at the Anandtech review which gives a signal strength to bar mapping.

But then he wouldn't get the PR coverage and would have to learn to use Google.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 15, 2010)

Hasn't the New York senator got anything better to do, then?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 15, 2010)

Anandtech's latest article on the 4.0.1 update: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/iphone-4-redux-analyzing-apples-ios-41-signal-fix

Actually a very balanced article. As always.


----------



## paolo (Jul 15, 2010)

I'm thinking about getting an iPhone 4, but having read some reports here, I'm now worried I won't be able to drop calls.

Can anyone recommend tutorial on how to do it? I know Kanda tried and failed. I always thought he was a savvy user, but he had to get someone else to do it for him.

This is all seems to be going against the "it just does" idea. I expect to get the widely perceived user experience - but am really concerned it's all been hyped up, typical of those PR people.

I have this horrible worry that, unlike everyone else, I won't get the typical user experience.

Can anyone put my mind at rest?

[Also interested in the giant spring. But you don't catch me out with your wonderful rumours!]


----------



## editor (Jul 15, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Anandtech's latest article on the 4.0.1 update: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3821/iphone-4-redux-analyzing-apples-ios-41-signal-fix
> 
> Actually a very balanced article. As always.


Good piece, but as they say themselves, no amount of fiddling about with the signal bar display is going to make the physical problem of the antenna design go away. Their press conference tomorrow should be interesting.  


> While the software update obviously does not and cannot address the  design of the antenna itself - or make the drop from holding the phone  any less - it does change the way the issue is perceived among users.  The result is that most iPhone users will see fewer bars disappear when  they hold the iPhone 4 in a bare hand...
> 
> Interestingly enough, Apple has indeed changed the heights of bars 1, 2, and 3. They’re taller, and the result is that the relative heights are no longer linear, but rather a tad exponential looking. It’s a mind trick that Apple no doubt hopes will make the signal look better. If the bars are taller, they must denote stronger signal, right?


P99: so long as you buy a bumper - and are perhaps a little bit more careful with the phone than you might usually be - you'll have an excellent handset in your hands. If you can afford it, of course. Oh, and ho ho.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 15, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> I'm thinking about getting an iPhone 4, but having read some reports here, I'm now worried I won't be able to drop calls.
> 
> Can anyone recommend tutorial on how to do it? I know Kanda tried and failed. I always thought he was a savvy user, but he had to get someone else to do it for him.
> 
> ...



Surely if you get one that won't drop calls, you can take it to a Genius and get it fixed, or replaced with one that does?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm finding this quite hilarious. People that don't actually own an iPhone are complaining about a issue that isn't really much of a real world problem.  Ok I managed to get it to degrade to just about no signal and start having connectivity issues this evening by doing what I know will slap the signal.

What I don't find though, is that you'd notice is in real world usage.  Its a flaw but a fairly trivial one and certainly not one that will make me jump to another platform. This is the best mobile OS out there in my opinion, having used all of them to one extent or another.

My only complaint is that running apps are harder to kill than is really necessary.  Palm still wins on that front, but one feature does not make a phone.


----------



## paolo (Jul 16, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Surely if you get one that won't drop calls, you can take it to a Genius and get it fixed, or replaced with one that does?



That's what I was hoping.

I've heard stories that these experts, if they can't get it drop calls, go the extra mile and smash the phone with a hammer.

There's also, I think, some kind of "cult like" customer ceremony, where the staff all raise their hands in the air, and - as the customer leaves - run around going "OMG! OMG! This Phone Has Ruined Your Life!". The customer is encouraged to join in.

Then the staff go home and write tech blogs.

I've not got one yet, but pleasingly, I can sense my life being ruined. I'm so excited!!!!


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I'm finding this quite hilarious. People that don't actually own an iPhone are complaining about a issue that isn't really much of a real world problem.


You're missing the point. 

The real issue is not the relatively minor defect. It's the way that a mega-rich corp like Apple - who normally boast the super slickest PR machine on the planet - has handled it so spectacularly badly and ended up digging such a huge hole for themselves.

If they'd just admitted there was a minor problem at the beginning and given away free bumpers, the issue would probably have been all-but forgotten by now.

Instead, the company's off hand attitude to its customers and its weird denials have turned the issue into an immense PR catastrophe - so much so that billions were wiped off the company's value leading them to call an emergency press briefing today.

That's pretty much unprecedented for Apple, and that's the story.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

So...378mbs and one small firmware update later and my 3GS is exactly the same...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I'm finding this quite hilarious. People that don't actually own an iPhone are complaining about a issue that isn't really much of a real world problem.  Ok I managed to get it to degrade to just about no signal and start having connectivity issues this evening by doing what I know will slap the signal.
> 
> What I don't find though, is that you'd notice is in real world usage.  Its a flaw but a fairly trivial one and certainly not one that will make me jump to another platform. This is the best mobile OS out there in my opinion, having used all of them to one extent or another.
> 
> My only complaint is that running apps are harder to kill than is really necessary.  Palm still wins on that front, but one feature does not make a phone.



Yup the power of media to induce mass hysteria is well documented. Apples rivals must be loving this...


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup the power of media to induce mass hysteria is well documented..


That's usually Apple's modus operandi! I guess sometimes the dog bites back.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 16, 2010)

editor said:


> You're missing the point.
> 
> The real issue is not the relatively minor defect. It's the way that a mega-rich corp like Apple - who normally boast the super slickest PR machine on the planet - has handled it so spectacularly badly and ended up digging such a huge hole for themselves.
> 
> ...



But only because people that don't own an iPhone 4 or any Apple product for that matter have been bleating on about it, really hard for ages.  I am wondering if there isn't some dirty tricks by competing manufacturers going on here because as a iPhone 4 owner its not even an issue for me.  Surely its current owners having problems that should be complaining to Apple and not the world and his dog?

From where I am standing, owning one of these 'faulty' devices that seems to be working most all the time, I can't see how Apple could do if different? 

They sold a couple of million of these but it appears that the entire world is complaining about problems they can't be having has they don't own one.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 16, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> That's what I was hoping.
> 
> I've heard stories that these experts, if they can't get it drop calls, go the extra mile and smash the phone with a hammer.
> 
> ...



I think you need to start a tech blog on this issue, and link it to lots of other tech blogs, and make sure you blog about the other blogs blogging about the latest developments, and of course once you have got a phone, blog about your efforts to drop calls and any mods you have discovered that improve the call-dropping performance.


----------



## Winot (Jul 16, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> I'm thinking about getting an iPhone 4, but having read some reports here, I'm now worried I won't be able to drop calls.
> 
> Can anyone recommend tutorial on how to do it? I know Kanda tried and failed. I always thought he was a savvy user, but he had to get someone else to do it for him.
> 
> ...



If you decide not to fork out for the new phone, there are apparently some neat jailbreaks out there for the 3G and 3GS which recreate the lost signal experience.

And when the iPhone 5 is eventually launched there will be a healthy market in 'lost signal emulators' for retro-phoning fans.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> But only because people that don't own an iPhone 4 or any Apple product for that matter have been bleating on about it, really hard for ages.  I am wondering if there isn't some dirty tricks by competing manufacturers going on here because as a iPhone 4 owner its not even an issue for me.  *Surely its current owners having problems that should be complaining to Apple and not the world and his dog?*.


Some of us have been and a free bumper didn't resolve it for me, but was a significant improvement. I'm still left with a temperamental phone.

Today's press conference will be interesting.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 16, 2010)

Yup, big day for the uberlords. 

These gadgets own us don't they? It is facepalmtastic


----------



## Fingers (Jul 16, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> In other news, why can't I move my folders around like I can normal apps? Grr. I've spent all this time creating lovely folders, and now they're stuck on a fucking page all by themselves. Only way to move them all to the front page it would seem is to take everything back out and make sure when I start the folder again it's where I want it to be.
> 
> /rage



What you do is, move one of the items (eg ipod) from the bottom bar onto the main area. Place the item you want to move onto the spare palce on the bottom bar. Go the the first page and move the item from the bottom bar onto the page. Replace the original item you moved back on the bottom bar.  There must be an easier way but this worked for me.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 16, 2010)

Far easier to do it in itunes while the phone's plugged into the computer, surely?


----------



## Fingers (Jul 16, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Far easier to do it in itunes while the phone's plugged into the computer, surely?



Ah didn't know you could do it that way. I only upgraded to IOS4 yesterday and spent a considerable amount of time baffled and came up with that solution.  Will try it when I get home.

I have found with ISO4 on my 3G, it takes a lot longer to wake up when locked and sometimes to close apps down.  Anyone else found this?  No a major problem though.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> But only because people that don't own an iPhone 4 or any Apple product for that matter have been bleating on about it, really hard for ages.  I am wondering if there isn't some dirty tricks by competing manufacturers going on here because as a iPhone 4 owner its not even an issue for me.


Err, many of the people 'bleating on about it' are in fact iPhone 4 users (check out Apple's own support forms if they haven't deleted the threads) and much of the coverage has been on Apple-related/fan websites.

There's no widespread 'dirty tricks' going on here and most of the bad press is entirely down to Apple's response.

Edit to add - here's an interesting new article in MacWorld:





> "Apple better give iPhone 4 owners free cases, say crisis experts"
> 
> Facing mounting public relations troubles over the iPhone 4, Apple must act swiftly to quell customer complaints about poor reception by giving away free cases, crisis communication experts say.
> 
> ...


This quote is amazing:


> "I think this has been made into a mountain from a molehill," said Jim Lukaszewski of The Lukaszewski Group, a crisis management consultancy. "*Apple is a brand we trust, and consumers are hungry to buy its products whether they work or not*. People will buy Apple's products until the cows come home."


What?!!   These 'crisis management' Charlies are a hoot.

http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?olo=rss&NewsID=3232186


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 16, 2010)

editor said:


> Err, many of the people 'bleating on about it' are in fact iPhone 4 users (check out Apple's own support forms if they haven't deleted the threads) and much of the coverage has been on Apple-related/fan websites



Not on here.


----------



## elbows (Jul 16, 2010)

Well he is right in so much as the demand for iphones 4's has been rather high despite the problems.

I wait with interest to see what happens today. This sort of crisis was always going to happen to Apple one day,given their status these days, and their attitude towards information & communication. If they have a suitable solution that can be delivered within a reasonable timeframe then they will probably survive relatively unscathed, but the potential is there for more self-inflicted damage.

One reason why its hard to assess the real damage done is that, in addition to those who actually own the device and are suffering, a lot of the noise is coming from peple who have learnt to hate apple over a long period of time and this is their opportunity to give apple a good kicking.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 16, 2010)

Fingers said:


> Ah didn't know you could do it that way. I only upgraded to IOS4 yesterday and spent a considerable amount of time baffled and came up with that solution.  Will try it when I get home.
> 
> I have found with ISO4 on my 3G, it takes a lot longer to wake up when locked and sometimes to close apps down.  Anyone else found this?  No a major problem though.



I'm sticking to my jailbroken 3.1.2 on the 3G, mainly as I want to properly unlock it when I get the 4. My missus needs an upgrade on her ericsson t610 

I've a memory indicator on the top bar, the 3G really struggles with memory, I can't run Spotify and run a browser for instance, well I can but eventually Safari will cause Spotify to quit. I look forward to the 4 coming out here in Holland - hopefully with that alleged coating on the antenna.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2010)

Does Spotify properly multitask on the new iPhone? I had it on my iPhone 3GS but it was a total waste of time.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 16, 2010)

Structaural said:


> I'm sticking to my jailbroken 3.1.2 on the 3G, mainly as I want to properly unlock it when I get the 4. My missus needs an upgrade on her ericsson t610
> 
> I've a memory indicator on the top bar, the 3G really struggles with memory, I can't run Spotify and run a browser for instance, well I can but eventually Safari will cause Spotify to quit. I look forward to the 4 coming out here in Holland - hopefully with that alleged coating on the antenna.



OK. mine is not that bad but it is noticable. I am willing to trade off for the folders though.

A word of advice if you are giving you phone to your missus and it is on 02 - O2 take two weeks to unlock it  (which I did not know at the time) so I have spent £150 on a phone I cannot make phone calls on for the next two weeks (though I can do everything else by WIFI if it is availiable)

Edited to say, just noticed you are on a Dutch network


----------



## Fingers (Jul 16, 2010)

Oh and I spent five hours trying to jailbreak my 3G yesterday using Sn0w soemthing or other, only to be faced each time with an itunes message (1604 - Error unknown) WTF? How can the error be unknown? 

Gave up int he end


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 16, 2010)

5 hours?



http://spiritjb.com/


----------



## grit (Jul 16, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> 5 hours?
> 
> 
> 
> http://spiritjb.com/



Thats not a carrier unlock though, which is the reason a lot of people jailbreak.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 16, 2010)

editor said:


> Does Spotify properly multitask on the new iPhone? I had it on my iPhone 3GS but it was a total waste of time.



I know - they should have put in a browser like TuneIn Radio. But yeah it should work fine on OS 4 on a 3GS or better.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 16, 2010)

Fingers said:


> OK. mine is not that bad but it is noticable. I am willing to trade off for the folders though.
> 
> A word of advice if you are giving you phone to your missus and it is on 02 - O2 take two weeks to unlock it  (which I did not know at the time) so I have spent £150 on a phone I cannot make phone calls on for the next two weeks (though I can do everything else by WIFI if it is availiable)
> 
> Edited to say, just noticed you are on a Dutch network



I'm going to do it myself - I want it to stay OS 3.1 as it works so well, I'm not even sure T-mobile will unlock it, if they do they'd probably upgrade it to 4...
Though I'm not sure how I'm going to sync it to her computer.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2010)

If you're on a 3GS maybe you should hold back from updating as it looks like things are going a bit wonky:



> Apple fixes one iPhone bug as another appears
> 
> Apple has issued a fix for one problem with the iPhone as reports start to emerge of another bug.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

editor said:


> Does Spotify properly multitask on the new iPhone? I had it on my iPhone 3GS but it was a total waste of time.



In the app store it says it's iOS4 tested so I guess it does?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

editor said:


> If you're on a 3GS maybe you should hold back from updating as it looks like things are going a bit wonky:



My 3GS updates fine with no issues...


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2010)

This has to be a 'must have' download if you're a Firefox user: http://www.wirefresh.com/firefox-home-for-the-iphone-keeps-your-desktop-browser-in-sync/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

editor said:


> This has to be a 'must have' download if you're a Firefox user: http://www.wirefresh.com/firefox-home-for-the-iphone-keeps-your-desktop-browser-in-sync/



That's pretty neat, would be nice to have one for Chrome...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

Been thinking about this iPhone 4 reception press conference today, really can't see what they're going to do. Announcing a recall seems too far fetched but giving the bumper away free seems to small a gesture...


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Been thinking about this iPhone 4 reception press conference today, really can't see what they're going to do. Announcing a recall seems too far fetched but giving the bumper away free seems to small a gesture...


I suspect bigger hole will be dug. 

What would be nice is if they said yes we fucked up, sorry to have pissed you about, here's a bumper and £100 voucher and if you're still having problems come in a swap it for a replacement once the lacquer has dried.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 16, 2010)

On what planet would they ever say that?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 16, 2010)

How much publicity does Apple actually need?


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2010)

Fingers said:


> What you do is, move one of the items (eg ipod) from the bottom bar onto the main area. Place the item you want to move onto the spare palce on the bottom bar. Go the the first page and move the item from the bottom bar onto the page. Replace the original item you moved back on the bottom bar.  There must be an easier way but this worked for me.


Why do you need to go through all that palaver?   Just drag them to where ever you want them to be!



Crispy said:


> Far easier to do it in itunes while the phone's plugged into the computer, surely?


Yes, or do what I said above.


Fingers said:


> OK. mine is not that bad but it is noticable. I am willing to trade off for the folders though.
> 
> A word of advice if you are giving you phone to your missus and it is on 02 - O2 take two weeks to unlock it  (which I did not know at the time) so I have spent £150 on a phone I cannot make phone calls on for the next two weeks (though I can do everything else by WIFI if it is availiable)
> 
> Edited to say, just noticed you are on a Dutch network



When I got O2 to unlock my previous iPhone which I bought on eBay it only took a few days.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> How much publicity does Apple actually need?



It's a corporation, like all corporations it's never enough...


----------



## Fingers (Jul 16, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> 5 hours?
> 
> 
> 
> http://spiritjb.com/



Cheers, though I wanted to do it so I could unlock the carrier so I don't have to wait two weeks for those arseholes at o2 to do it.  Can you point me in the right direction (not int he direction of that sn0w crap)

3g running IOS4

Cheers


----------



## grit (Jul 16, 2010)

Fingers said:


> Cheers, though I wanted to do it so I could unlock the carrier so I don't have to wait two weeks for those arseholes at o2 to do it.  Can you point me in the right direction (not int he direction of that sn0w crap)
> 
> 3g running IOS4
> 
> Cheers



I'm also looking to find this out.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 16, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> Why do you need to go through all that palaver?   Just drag them to where ever you want them to be!
> 
> 
> Yes, or do what I said above.
> ...



Hi  Bungle, mine does not seem to let you drag the item from one page to another.  I take it this is not normal?

RE:- O2 perhaps there is  hope that they will do it sooner then. I will try swapping the sims again


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2010)

Fingers said:


> Hi  Bungle, mine does not seem to let you drag the item from one page to another.  I take it this is not normal?
> 
> RE:- O2 perhaps there is  hope that they will do it sooner then. I will try swapping the sims again



You just drag them right to edge of the screen and it should automatically scroll to the next page.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 16, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> You just drag them right to edge of the screen and it should automatically scroll to the next page.



Shit! You are right, I couldn't for the life of me do that yesterday!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 16, 2010)

Fingers said:


> Cheers, though I wanted to do it so I could unlock the carrier so I don't have to wait two weeks for those arseholes at o2 to do it.  Can you point me in the right direction (not int he direction of that sn0w crap)
> 
> 3g running IOS4
> 
> Cheers



Oh, god. It's a bugger. 

Carrier unlocks are a whole different story to simple jailbreaks, I'm afraid.


----------



## Fingers (Jul 16, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Oh, god. It's a bugger.
> 
> Carrier unlocks are a whole different story to simple jailbreaks, I'm afraid.



Yeah I am going to wait until O2 unlock it. I didn't realize you had to do a restore before it is unlocked.  Will try a restore later.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 16, 2010)

Tbh, unless you did a backup of your SHSH blobs before you upgraded to OS 4, that's probably the best way.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2010)

OMG! Whoopi Goldberg says her iPhone 4 was so bad that she had to "murder" it!

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/16/whoopi-goldberg-iphone-4_n_648775.html


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 16, 2010)

She probably used it to phone Gibson.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> She probably used it to phone Gibson.


Perhaps God was blocking the calls.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

editor said:


> OMG! Whoopi Goldberg says her iPhone 4 was so bad that she had to "murder" it!
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/07/16/whoopi-goldberg-iphone-4_n_648775.html



She needs help, anyone that loses it like that with a phone has issues...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

So...30 minutes till this super special surprise Apple press conference then...


----------



## g force (Jul 16, 2010)

Cheers...will avoid trying to use Twitter then. Fail Whale ahoy!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

Yeah Twitter will be filled to the brim with this...it's about to start apparently...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

Heh they started with this:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)




----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2010)

I can almost feel the waft of the spin from here.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 16, 2010)

http://www.engadget.com/2010/07/16/live-from-apples-iphone-4-press-conference/


----------



## Sunray (Jul 16, 2010)

See that room, that's is a serious bit of high tech testing gear.

Its also mega  looking


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

editor said:


> I can almost feel the waft of the spin from here.



He's going for the 'get a grip people' strategy it seems.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> See that room, that's is a serious bit of high tech testing gear.



100 million dollars, crazy looking thing too!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

And now the figures about calls regarding it from the real world:



> Some really important data from AppleCare. In addition to us solving their problem, their problems are solved. We asked ourselves: Whats the percentage of all iPhone 4 users who have called about antenna or reception?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

> "In the early days of the iPhone 3GS return rates were 6%... below the average, we were happy with that... so for the iPhone 4? You think half the people must be returning their phones with what you read online... well it's 1.7% -- less than a third of the 3GS returns."








This is a well put together presentation but I doubt it'll do much to curtail the anti Apple brigades reasoned and proportionate critiques...


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 16, 2010)

> So what percentage have called AppleCare? 0.55% Just one half of one percent."


That's the problem sorted then, because unless they've called applecare there can't be a problem. 
When the boss says your 'holding the phone wrong' is there really any point in calling applecare?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

Heh this is amusing the line is going to be 'People don't like change'. Heh.


----------



## grit (Jul 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And now the figures about calls regarding it from the real world:



So in summary the response is tough shit deal with it. Doesn't appear to be any mention of a fix.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

grit said:


> So in summary the response is tough shit deal with it. Doesn't appear to be any mention of a fix.



Nothing yet. No recall for sure...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

Free bumper cases for all iPhone 4 users, those who bought one get a refund. Cost will be far less than the speculated 1.6 billion for a recall...


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 16, 2010)

> "We're going to send you a free case. We can't make enough bumpers. No way we can make enough in the quarter. So we're going to source some cases and give you a choice."


What kind of case.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

Awwwww....







Group hug everyone!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2010)

I'm off for a fanwank.

But seriously, as KE (I think) said earlier, nothing short of announcing he would give a whole year's profits away to iPhone users would stop some people hating.

Yeah, I said hating.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 16, 2010)

> "So the heart of the problem is, smartphones have issues, and we made it easy to exploit the issue by showing people where to hold the phone to cover the antenna. But the data supports the fact that the iPhone 4 is the best smartphone in the world, and there is no Antennagate..


Well, I've got 7 days to return my phone


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I'm off for a fanwank.
> 
> But seriously, as KE (I think) said earlier, nothing short of announcing he would give a whole year's profits away to iPhone users would stop some people hating.
> 
> Yeah, I said hating.



The hype over this has got out of control but you know back in the real world millions of people have bought it and aren't returning their phones so can't see that the issue is as big a problem as some bloggers would have you believe. 

Anyone with an xbox360 knows the difference between a problem that's recreated through trying and one that happens in every day use and thus erodes your enjoyment of a product.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2010)

My 360 hasn't red ringed (yet) either. I'm fully prepared for the fact that it will one day, but it won't stop me buying another one. The benefits outweigh the (possible) negatives.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2010)

I very much like that he just said he doesn't owe investors an apology heh.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Awwwww....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sickbag!


----------



## grit (Jul 16, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I very much like that he just said he doesn't owe investors an apology heh.



No, just the customers.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

editor said:


> Sickbag!



I know, I was taking the piss. I don't go for this hippy bullshit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

grit said:


> No, just the customers.



Don't see them complaining in significant numbers, the investors have given the amount wiped off Apple share value. Be interesting to see what the price of the stock does now.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 16, 2010)

Standard stuff these days, if you don't like it you can take it back within 28 days for a full refund and cancellation and refund of the contract.

That's standard consumer law now.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Don't see them complaining in significant numbers, the investors have given the amount wiped off Apple share value. Be interesting to see what the price of the stock does now.


Went up and then down a bit according to this:

http://www.google.co.uk/finance?client=ob&q=NASDAQ:AAPL


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 16, 2010)

Hasn't anyone told the smug git it's a major hassle returning a phone - contracts, sudden lack of phone etc etc.

This sums up his attitude: 



> Q: On the September 30th date, is that to let people know that you'll have to buy a case?
> Steve: Not really, we'll reevaluate then. Maybe we'll have a better idea. Maybe Eminem will come out with a band-aid that goes over the corner and everyone will want that.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 16, 2010)

I found that quite funny, if I'm honest. But then I haven't got a problem with my phone, so I guess I don't feel the pain like you atm.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 16, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Hasn't anyone told the smug git it's a major hassle returning a phone - contracts, sudden lack of phone etc etc.
> 
> This sums up his attitude:


You can get a full refund on the phone or a free case, what else do you expect them to do?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 16, 2010)

I bought a bumper last week!


----------



## Crispy (Jul 16, 2010)

You can get a refund if you already bought one


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 16, 2010)

Hooray!

It stops the phone sliding about on the sofa.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 16, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> You can get a full refund on the phone or a free case, what else do you expect them to do?


I’d of liked Apple to put their hands up and admit there is a problem with iP4, instead of putting the blame on smartphones in general. It was disappointing to hear him say "There is no antennagate".

My advice to those with issues would be to go for a refund now and buy again in September - by that time the sneaky buggers would've engineered a fix.

What’s the betting those people that says they don’t have a problem with the signal are the first in the line for a free bumper.


----------



## grit (Jul 16, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> It was disappointing to hear him say "There is no antennagate".



Exactly what a fucking ridiculous comment considering it was during a PR event specifically created to tackle the issue.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 16, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Id of liked Apple to put their hands up and admit there is a problem with iP4, instead of putting the blame on smartphones in general. It was disappointing to hear him say "There is no antennagate".
> 
> My advice to those with issues would be to go for a refund now and buy again in September - by that time the sneaky buggers would've engineered a fix.
> 
> Whats the betting those people that says they dont have a problem with the signal are the first in the line for a free bumper.



Heh September is the earliest I can upgrade...


----------



## editor (Jul 17, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This is a well put together presentation but I doubt it'll do much to curtail the anti Apple brigades reasoned and proportionate critiques...


It certainly didn't impress this journalist. No doubt you'll have her as a signed up member of this bizarre "anti Apple brigade" that you're always banging on about:



> After a long-winded spiel about the universal antenna problem within the cell phone industry, the iPhone 4′s successful sales records, and the low number of antenna-related AppleCare complaints, it felt like “Antennagate” was something dreamed up by the press. I wish all of the dropped calls I’ve experienced were just a dream. And you can be certain that the personal iPhone 4 hell my colleague Melissa Perenson experienced with her three units (she’s on her fourth handset now) was not just a figment of her imagination....
> 
> I had a moment of panic during the press conference when I thought that Jobs wasn't going to bring up the iPhone 4's faulty proximity sensor. This issue has been overshadowed in the media by the antenna issue, but for me, personally, it is my biggest problem with the phone. On six different occasions, I have pulled up Gmail and began an e-mail to a job that I applied to three years ago. Only once did it actually send. Worst nightmare, much? How in the world could this happen? In other instances, I've hung up on various people with my cheek and started FaceTime.
> http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?olo=rss&NewsID=3232282



Nokia and RIM weren't too chuffed with Apple's conference either: http://www.wirefresh.com/nokia-and-rim-respond-angrily-to-apples-antenna-statements/ and this BBC  video feature remains unimpressed: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/8830747.stm


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2010)

Looks like a score for Apple if Nokia and RIM have taken such an obvious bait!


----------



## pesh (Jul 17, 2010)

> One thing is for certain, RIM’s customers don’t need to use a case for their BlackBerry smartphone to maintain proper connectivity.


their leading rival making that statement is a score for apple how exactly


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 17, 2010)

So, you have a slick, sexy, gorgeous bit of (flawed) design, and you fix it by adding an ugly rubber bumper around it.

Genius.


----------



## Callum91 (Jul 17, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, you have a slick, sexy, gorgeous bit of (flawed) design, and you fix it by adding an ugly rubber bumper around it.
> 
> Genius.


 
Amazing isn't it?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 17, 2010)

Of course, to those of us who use cases to protect the phone anyway, that isn't the issue those who don't even own the phone make it out to be. But I understand the sentiment.


----------



## elbows (Jul 17, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like a score for Apple if Nokia and RIM have taken such an obvious bait!


 
lol I think not. Sure it is a very easy and obvious response to Apples paintful spin about smartphones and poor reception in general, but its hardly some cunning bait left by Apple to ensnare others, its just a really crappy excuse for the mistakes they have made with the iphone 4 phone. These other companies only have something to lose by getting into this if it turns out the reception on their handsets sucks, but even then its Apples flaw that has all the media & public attention right now and just as other manufacturers were not treated to such attention in the media as Apple when things go well, they will probably get less scrutiny over flaws.

The nature of Apples brand, marketing and communication style has long lead to concern or bemusement over their, and especially Steve Jobs, ability to employ a reality distortion field. It usually serves them well but it does mean that they have inherent weaknesses when trying to deal with a situation like this, their instinct to deny engineering faults etc can backfire.

I'll be interested to see what happens going forwards. I expect them to still try to make the iphone 4 better via software or hardware changes, but if its a hardware change they might try to keep quiet about it and we may get another backlash from existing users at some point, dunno.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 17, 2010)

I thought Jobs was rather quiet on the hardware issue. I honestly think they'll be working on possible hardware modifications leading up to this 30th Sept bumper cut-off/reassessment date.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 17, 2010)

elbows said:


> lol I think not. Sure it is a very easy and obvious response to Apples paintful spin about smartphones and poor reception in general, but its hardly some cunning bait left by Apple to ensnare others, its just a really crappy excuse for the mistakes they have made with the iphone 4 phone. These other companies only have something to lose by getting into this if it turns out the reception on their handsets sucks, but even then its Apples flaw that has all the media & public attention right now and just as other manufacturers were not treated to such attention in the media as Apple when things go well, they will probably get less scrutiny over flaws.
> 
> The nature of Apples brand, marketing and communication style has long lead to concern or bemusement over their, and especially Steve Jobs, ability to employ a reality distortion field. It usually serves them well but it does mean that they have inherent weaknesses when trying to deal with a situation like this, their instinct to deny engineering faults etc can backfire.
> 
> I'll be interested to see what happens going forwards. I expect them to still try to make the iphone 4 better via software or hardware changes, but if its a hardware change they might try to keep quiet about it and we may get another backlash from existing users at some point, dunno.



Not meaning that it was a clever plan as such just that they are a bit stupid for commenting on it. It'll play into Apple's pr plan which seems to be if you're in the shit make sure you spread it about so everyone stinks to high heaven!


----------



## Sunray (Jul 17, 2010)

*Poor quality iPhone 4 feature*

The multi-tasking technology that the iPhone offers developers is very ingenious implementation of MT for a battery powered device.

Some may take issue with the restrictions but I suggest that before you do that, consider what full OS multi-tasking actually is and what it allows errant programs to do to your battery.  Its mathematically impossible for one program to work out what another is doing*, so if a program goes into a tight loop you could wave your battery good bye in an hour or two, the OS can't know if what its doing is good or bad.  So Apple have changed the scheduler so it doesn't do it like a full OS would to prevent this issue.

Like I say its all very nice tech, unfortunately the user interface they have come up with for all that nice tech is pants. They got the new intern or the cleaner to dev that in a day or two and ran with it. 

*Alan Turning, Halting problem


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 17, 2010)

What would it look like better implemented?

I don't ask to be confrontational, I ask simply because I have no other experience of multitasking on a phone, so this MT in iOS4 is my only frame of reference (and seeing as though I know no different, it works fine for me).


----------



## G. Fieendish (Jul 17, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> I thought Jobs was rather quiet on the hardware issue. I honestly think they'll be working on possible hardware modifications leading up to this 30th Sept bumper cut-off/reassessment date.


 
According to a item in The Register, Apple may have already fixed the hardware problem, but dare not publicly say so, for liability issues in the U.S...
_(Apparently, some of the very latest i Phone 4's that do not have the signal dedregration problems, have a slightly duller metal rear casing, then ones that do, thus inferring that Apple has slightly changed the metallic composition of the rear casing in order to reduce/eliminate this problem )._


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> What would it look like better implemented?
> 
> I don't ask to be confrontational, I ask simply because I have no other experience of multitasking on a phone, so this MT in iOS4 is my only frame of reference (and seeing as though I know no different, it works fine for me).


 
WebOS is the best ui for multi-tasking I've seen. The card system is excellent.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2010)

Heh Apple have a page with dedicated to the issue of phone reception too: http://www.apple.com/antenna/

That reception testing room they showed was something else, never imagine things like that would look so futuristic, reminded me of Cerebo from the Xmen films.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 18, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That reception testing room they showed was something else, never imagine things like that would look so futuristic, reminded me of Cerebo from the Xmen films.


Hilarious the way they spend $100 million on testing rooms then use what looks like a rubber band dropped by a postie to secure the phone. 







(I took a screenshot from this Apple video http://www.apple.com/antenna/testing-lab.html)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2010)

Heh crazy I can get my 3GS to drop it's bars from 5 to 2 doing the 'death grip'!


----------



## grit (Jul 18, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> What would it look like better implemented?
> 
> I don't ask to be confrontational, I ask simply because I have no other experience of multitasking on a phone, so this MT in iOS4 is my only frame of reference (and seeing as though I know no different, it works fine for me).


 
It would actually multi task, i.e several applications running at once rather than freezing them on the switch its an important distinction. 

Android does it fine.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 18, 2010)

grit said:


> It would actually multi task, i.e several applications running at once rather than freezing them on the switch its an important distinction.
> 
> Android does it fine.


 
What's the comparison on battery life between an android phone and a iOS4 device?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 18, 2010)

grit said:


> It would actually multi task, i.e several applications running at once rather than freezing them on the switch its an important distinction.
> 
> Android does it fine.



What benefits would that bring?


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> What benefits would that bring?


 
Loads. With the Palm I could have a music streaming website open and playing music, have several active IM windows open, take a call in the middle of a game and go straight back (or receive mail/text notification within the game and keep on playing), have websites open and updating, Twitter updates etc etc.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 18, 2010)

grit said:


> It would actually multi task, i.e several applications running at once rather than freezing them on the switch its an important distinction.
> 
> Android does it fine.



You show up your lack of knowledge in operating system design.  NT is a purely event driven system. When a process has nothing to do the scheduler will never schedule it, not one of its instructions will get executed. If this situation persists it will get removed from memory, all that will be left is the process handle and its stack.

What Apple have done is make this process less transparent to the Application.

Unrestricted MT would leave the battery life open to destruction by 3rd party.  I refer you to the problems MS had with NT4 over NT3.51.  My last job had a 3.51 box and that ran for 11 years straight without the need to reboot.  For performance reasons they moved the graphics card drivers into ring 0 of the OS in NT 4.  This meant that dodgy graphics card drivers could crash the OS.  Of course that is exactly what they did.  

Who got the blame?

I would make running applications icons a different shape like round or star like with the cross to kill them off. Wave goodbye to the task bar.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 18, 2010)

editor said:


> Loads. With the Palm I could have a music streaming website open and playing music, have several active IM windows open, take a call in the middle of a game and go straight back (or receive mail/text notification within the game and keep on playing), have websites open and updating, Twitter updates etc etc.


 
Isn't the point of iOS4's MT that you can do that too? In terms of taking a call in the middle of a game and going right back, for example, I've been doing that. Streaming music while browsing online, well I know the iPod bit can do that now, and I'm waiting for my fave streaming app to release an update that supports that, but once they do I'll be able to. All my photo apps now support (or are developing updates to support) background uploading and processing. 

Honestly, I'm not trying to say 'Apple does it all just as well' because I don't have any experience of other MT phones, but from my limited use of iOS4 so far, and for what I use it for, I'm struggling to see how it's failing me in any way.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 18, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I would make running applications icons a different shape like round or star like with the cross to kill them off. Wave goodbye to the task bar.



The only problem with that is that now people are utilising folders, you'd have to 'drill down' into a folder to find the app to close anyway.

Is it necessary to fully close the apps? I've been occasionally going to the task bar and closing ones I'm not likely to use again for a while, but I've probably got 8 in there at any one time. I'm not noticing a rapidly decreasing battery. I thought the idea was that it was on pause until you needed it again?


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Isn't the point of iOS4's MT that you can do that too?


The iPhone's multi tasking is seriously limited compared to the webOS:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/198688/iphone_multitasking_were_still_waiting.html


----------



## grit (Jul 18, 2010)

Sunray said:


> You show up your lack of knowledge in operating system design.  NT is a purely event driven system. When a process has nothing to do the scheduler will never schedule it, not one of its instructions will get executed. If this situation persists it will get removed from memory, all that will be left is the process handle and its stack.
> 
> What Apple have done is make this process less transparent to the Application.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, if the process doesn't have anything to do it wont be scheduled, so what?

Its obviously not all doom and gloom to not restrict 3rd party developers so much, somehow amazingly through some feat that defies all logic and engineering principles other mobile operating systems manage to do it.

You are also putting the blame in the wrong place regarding your comparison (which is apples and oranges anyway), the issue is a poorly developed driver not the architecture its plugging into.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 18, 2010)

editor said:


> The iPhone's multi tasking is seriously limited compared to the webOS:
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/198688/iphone_multitasking_were_still_waiting.html


 
That article didn't really explain the differences between iOS4 and webOS, but, despite its rather combative tone, I take on board what the author is saying. However, as I said earlier, I'm yet to experience any feeling that iOS4 MT is failing me in any way. App switching is fantastic. So what if it's paused? I'd rather that than the battery drain while it runs in the background while I'm not using it. I'm never going to want to be able to physically play a game while looking up train times - it's a physical impossibility to do both at the same time. I can switch instantly between the two. I can also play music while I do either. I can have my photos upload or process in the background while I'm playing a game. I don't expect to be able to take photos while I'm playing a game. Why would I? It provides all the MT I could ever want. 

I'm happy to accept others might want more.


----------



## Structaural (Jul 18, 2010)

editor said:


> The iPhone's multi tasking is seriously limited compared to the webOS:
> http://www.pcworld.com/article/198688/iphone_multitasking_were_still_waiting.html


 
That article was meaningless, it's biggest problem seemed to be the fact that devs would actually (shock horror) have to update their apps for a new operating system.

As mentioned before, all the things you used to do can be done with the OS 4 multi-tasking implementation - it's just allowing more of the Unix core to run with liberal use of the suspend command. What exactly do you need to do in the background that isn't implemented here?

WebOS was java based, all apps were essentially widgets, much easier to make work than managing full on C compiled apps.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 18, 2010)

grit said:


> Yes, if the process doesn't have anything to do it wont be scheduled, *so what*?
> 
> Its obviously not all doom and gloom to not restrict 3rd party developers so much, somehow amazingly through some feat that defies all logic and engineering principles other mobile operating systems manage to do it.
> 
> You are also putting the blame in the wrong place regarding your comparison (which is apples and oranges anyway), the issue is a poorly developed driver not the architecture its plugging into.


 
They don't want their iPhone image tarnished by third parties.  Apple are a very image focused company.

It will MT as well as any other phone.  Those OS are just using the standard scheduler approach which IMO is a bit lazy on a battery device.  Android batteries are a bit on the short side or have huge batteries.

I am well impressed by the battery life of my iPhone 4.  Three days light use and it finally got to the 20% screen.


----------



## grit (Jul 18, 2010)

Sunray said:


> They don't want their iPhone image tarnished by third parties.  Apple are a very image focused company.
> 
> It will MT as well as any other phone.  Those OS are just using the standard scheduler approach which IMO is a bit lazy on a battery device.  Android batteries are a bit on the short side or have huge batteries.
> 
> I am well impressed by the battery life of my iPhone 4.  Three days light use and it finally got to the 20% screen.


 
Android's battery life, in fact most smartphone batteries are reasonably similar to performance (iphone 4 may have upped the game but that just means the next HTC generation will be at the same level). 

The decision by Apple is essentially misplaced distrust in developers, we know not to have unnecessary processes running.


----------



## Sunray (Jul 18, 2010)

grit said:


> Android's battery life, in fact most smartphone batteries are reasonably similar to performance (iphone 4 may have upped the game but that just means the next HTC generation will be at the same level).
> 
> The decision by Apple is essentially misplaced distrust in developers, we know not to have unnecessary processes running.


 
MS put all their trust into developer and got the shit kicked out of them for it.  I can understand Apples reluctance.  Developers are generally pretty shit when it comes down to it.


----------



## grit (Jul 18, 2010)

Sunray said:


> MS put all their trust into developer and got the shit kicked out of them for it.  I can understand Apples reluctance.  Developers are generally pretty shit when it comes down to it.


 
Its a different eco system, comparisons with windows are outdated and don't appreciate the differences. Its also a bit dramatic to say Microsoft got the shit kicked out of them for it, whats the most dominant OS today?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 19, 2010)

grit said:


> Its a different eco system, comparisons with windows are outdated and don't appreciate the differences. Its also a bit dramatic to say Microsoft got the shit kicked out of them for it, whats the most dominant OS today?


'Blue screen of death' is something that Microsoft got accused of causing from the advent of NT4 till the release of XP.

Nothing to do with the eco system.  Its about learning from other peoples past mistakes, understanding developer behaviour and not being plugged into the wall.  No developer will do more than have a passing interest in battery life, they are much happier to leave it to Apple to sort out.  Apple are in a much better place to do it. 

There a fairly limited number of full operating systems on the planet, even fewer successful ones, they are design patterns so you can't really deviate from them too much and if you.  I think this deviation is a clever one.  The implementation means that a dodgy app (and I've have a fair few crappy ones) cant tight loop in the background and kill the battery.


----------



## grit (Jul 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> No developer will do more than have a passing interest in battery life, they are much happier to leave it to Apple to sort out.



You should head down to some of the London mobile developer meetups and say that lol 

Have you actually ever done any mobile development?

Regarding microsoft's relationship with developers, watch steve ballmers famous video


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 20, 2010)




----------



## grit (Jul 21, 2010)

Someone did the maths on the % responses Apple are getting over the antenna issue. Looks to be about 700 a day! http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...-has-400x-higher-complaint-rate-than-htc.aspx


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2010)

*Apple profits top $3bn for third quarter*

Apple are raking it in:



> The company reported net income for the three months to 26 June of $3.25bn (£2.1bn), or $3.51 a share, up from $1.83bn for the quarter last year.
> 
> Analysts were expecting earnings of about $3.11 a share.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 23, 2010)

Very nice free news app from CNN just released. Well worth getting if you a good spread of news.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 26, 2010)

If anyone does have an iPhone 4 and they want their free case/bumper:

go to the App Store
search for "iPhone 4 case program" 
Download free Apple app.
Install the app
Open it on your iPhone
enter your Apple Store ID and password
a list of case/bumper options appears along with a gallery of photos for each and an estimated availability time.
Select a case
Confirm delivery address
All done


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 26, 2010)

Don't do what I did and change your mind* then cancel the case you ordered, because the app won't allow you to order a replacement 


* eight week delivery time

Bumpers only available in black - I wanted orange.

Plus I was handed a free bumper by store staff on the 25/6, so not too fussed about getting another


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

Apple appear to be busy censoring erotic literature from their Top Ten lists now: http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?olo=rss&NewsID=3233368
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...erotic-fiction-removed-10-chart.html?ITO=1490
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...ter-porn-disappears-from-iPad-book-chart.html


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 27, 2010)

Oh noes, whatever will some people do for mild titillation on the bus now??


----------



## teuchter (Jul 27, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> If anyone does have an iPhone 4 and they want their free case/bumper:
> 
> go to the App Store
> search for "iPhone 4 case program"
> ...


 
You have to actually _install an app_ just to order a case? Bizarre. What's wrong with a simple web page?


----------



## Sunray (Jul 27, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> If anyone does have an iPhone 4 and they want their free case/bumper:
> 
> go to the App Store
> search for "iPhone 4 case program"
> ...


 
I went for the Griffin Etch which looked OK.  Probably never use it as I am waiting for the Power Support crystal film for the iphone 4 to come out.  

One small scratch on the back now, slightly annoying.


----------



## maldwyn (Jul 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> You have to actually _install an app_ just to order a case? Bizarre. What's wrong with a simple web page?


 
I suppose it's a way of confirming you own an iP4 by checking against the serial number - who knows, it's difficult trying to second guess Apple.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 27, 2010)

I'd imagine that's _exactly_ what it is - without having to verify millions of proofs of purchase from loads of different sources.

I'm getting a refund, automatically processed apparently. I don't need to do anything. Wow. Course, it would be much, much better with a Nokia*. 

*Sorry, not actually read Mr Wibbly's post, but that's what they normally say.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 27, 2010)

It checks the IEMI Number.


----------



## Giles (Jul 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Apple appear to be busy censoring erotic literature from their Top Ten lists now: http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?olo=rss&NewsID=3233368
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...erotic-fiction-removed-10-chart.html?ITO=1490
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...ter-porn-disappears-from-iPad-book-chart.html


 
Reading the Telegraph article , it says they removed "Blonde and Wet, the Complete Story" and substituted Peter Mandelson's new book! 

Which is worse?!

Giles..


----------



## pengaleng (Jul 28, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Oh noes, whatever will some people do for mild titillation on the bus now??


 
Safari porn? Who the fuck even reads erotic literature? 

In regards to scratches a day on the beach has left my mams phone scratched to fuck, toughened glass my cunthole, I have a coupleof scratches on the back of mine, gonna see if I can buff them out with toothpaste and keep the fucker in a sock til I can get a case that's not fucking ugly. If not I'll be contacting o2 for a replacement.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 28, 2010)

Who would have thought that sand would scratch glass!!!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 28, 2010)

I wonder if we'll ever get to a stage where scratched and worn out tech toys look cool like beat-up old guitars and 'distressed' looking t-shirts etc.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 29, 2010)

Bonkers queues out of store tonight, apparently it was for iPhone and iPad stock they just got in...!


----------



## sim667 (Jul 30, 2010)

Is it just me or is there no way to listen to an album properly on the iPhone if each track is by different artists? I.e same album name but each track by a different producer (compilations).

It doesn't show up in compilations either, I can make it into a playlist but it won't mix properly (Tekno mix complilation specifically)


----------



## editor (Jul 30, 2010)

Completely bonkers!


> How the iPhone Became Divine: New Media, Religion and the Intertextual Circulation of Meaning
> Texas A&M University
> 
> This article explores the labeling of the iPhone as the ‘Jesus phone’ in order to demonstrate how religious metaphors and myth can be appropriated into popular discourse and shape the reception of a technology. We consider the intertextual nature of the relationship between religious language, imagery and technology and demonstrate how this creates a unique interaction between technology fans and bloggers, news media and even corporate advertising. Our analysis of the ‘Jesus phone’ clarifies how different groups may appropriate the language and imagery of another to communicate very different meanings and intentions. Intertextuality serves as a framework to unpack the deployment of religion to frame technology and meanings communicated. We also reflect on how religious language may communicate both positive and negative aspects of a technology and instigate an unintentional trajectory in popular discourse as it is employed by different audiences, both online and offline.


http://nms.sagepub.com/content/early/2010/05/11/1461444810362204.abstrac

I don't think I ever met anyone in the real world who called their iPhone a Jesus Phone, so fuck knows what this paper is going to be about.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Jul 30, 2010)

After much gnashing of teeth over which phone to get with my upgrade, & thorough reading of the threads on here. I've plumped for the iPhone 4.  MrD has a 3Gs, the baby likes some of the apps, by likes I mean stops her crying  I also reckon if I don't get on with it, if I sell it I should get a fair amount back.

I think I've bolloxed up my phone number change over by not taking my sim card out of the old card 1st, *impatient emoticon*, but I'm gonna ring O2 up about that later. 

My main problem is with iTunes & I was hoping someone might be able to help me.  I have an oldish toshiba laptop that has 2 hard drives C & E. C is pretty much filled to the limit & E is just over half full. I thought I'd installed iTunes to the E drive, there is certainly a folder there & when I click the itunes icon there it initiates it. I noticed when I was syncing MrD's phone the other week, it made the tiny amount of memory left on the C drive even tinier & stopped doing other things, i.e. it reverted the windows colour scheme back to basic & I had to delete tons of stuff.  It already has an updated version of software/itunes it wants to download, but there isn't space on my C drive. I can't seem to get it to download onto my E drive, it doesn't give me any option . . .  & I don't know what to do . . . if anyone could point me in the right direction please?  

I'd happily remove MS Works of the C drive, if anyone knows how . . . & any other superfluous windows stuff I don't need.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 30, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Is it just me or is there no way to listen to an album properly on the iPhone if each track is by different artists? I.e same album name but each track by a different producer (compilations).
> 
> It doesn't show up in compilations either, I can make it into a playlist but it won't mix properly (Tekno mix complilation specifically)


 In iTunes, make sure that you have the Compilation and Continuous Play options selected on the Options tab for the album. 
After you've done that it should appear in the Compilations list and segue properly.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 30, 2010)

editor said:


> Completely bonkers!
> 
> http://nms.sagepub.com/content/early/2010/05/11/1461444810362204.abstrac
> 
> I don't think I ever met anyone in the real world who called their iPhone a Jesus Phone, so fuck knows what this paper is going to be about.



Probably spurned on by...




			
				editor said:
			
		

> Actually, loads of tech websites, self declared fanboys and bloggers who loved the phone called it that. Here's two examples:


----------



## Structaural (Jul 30, 2010)

editor said:


> Completely bonkers!
> 
> http://nms.sagepub.com/content/early/2010/05/11/1461444810362204.abstrac
> 
> I don't think I ever met anyone in the real world who called their iPhone a Jesus Phone, so fuck knows what this paper is going to be about.



That's one for:


----------



## Structaural (Jul 30, 2010)

Well I went down T-mobile yesterday afternoon (after my mate was showing off his Samsung Galaxy S - very nice phone, I couldn't see the pixels on that one either), they'll unlock my old phone and sell me an iPhone 4 for 90 euros, not the greatest deal but fuck it. Up to an 8 week bloody wait for it though (the iPad only came out over here last week). 

I just want to run Spotify in the background while I browse, this is what I'm most looking forward to. That and more speed.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 31, 2010)

wicked, thanks


----------



## miniGMgoit (Aug 2, 2010)

Ok, did a search in the forum for '4.0.1' and it didn't show this up so I'm adding it. Sorry if its already been spoken about.
There are massive amounts of people now without a phone due to the new update with me being one of them. The new update has totally fucked my phone and countless others as well. It just gets stuck whie updating and then can't be started again. Its stuck in some sort of loop. I have tried everything advised on the Mac Forums and have even gone to the trouble of reinstalling iTunes and it won't fix itself. Just got off the phone with the provider and am taking my phone in to the shop tomorrow. Looks like i'll be getting a new one, again. I'm almost out of contract so am wondering whether I should barter a bit and get an upgrade. I'm also considering leaving the iPhone. I've had one for 2 years now and feel like I could do with something else.
But think twice before updating and check the Mac Forums for information on it.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Aug 2, 2010)

are you updating a 3g or 3gs?


----------



## editor (Aug 2, 2010)

miniGMgoit said:


> I've had one for 2 years now and feel like I could do with something else..


if you fancy a change, I don't imagine you'll be disappointed with the HTC Desire.

You've probably already seen this, but there's some chat and possible solutions about your iphone issue here:
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2477870&tstart=45have 
http://appletoolbox.com/2010/06/ios-4-0-update-stuck-on-backup-extremely-slow/


----------



## miniGMgoit (Aug 2, 2010)

I'm updating a 3g (I know, it hardly seems worth it, the poor thing  ).
Thanks for the heads up. I have tried all those ideas accept turning off the internet while its updating. Sound strange enough to work 
And yes Ed, I've just been reading the HTC Desire thread , it looks good. Interestingly Android phones are only available through Telstra down here. Anywhere else in Australia this would be a bad thing but up here in the wilds Telstra are by far the best provider and have way more coverage than anyone else.
Its definatly worth a look. Apple have really pissed me off with this. I'm sure I'll be 2 weeks with out a phone again now (I washed mine about 12 months ago). I'm beginning to feel slightly uneasy about all the iPhones I see everywhere. Its a bit weird. What did you call it in the other thread? iBorg? LOL


----------



## miniGMgoit (Aug 2, 2010)

Saying all that though, I do get a slight sense of fear of having a phone thats not an iPhone 

Just rechecked the website you suggested but it was about updating from 3 - 4. My problem is 4.0.0 to 4.0.1. Never mind though. I think that a few days with out a phone could do me some good.


----------



## Structaural (Aug 2, 2010)

editor said:


> if you fancy a change, I don't imagine you'll be disappointed with the HTC Desire.
> 
> You've probably already seen this, but there's some chat and possible solutions about your iphone issue here:
> http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2477870&tstart=45have
> http://appletoolbox.com/2010/06/ios-4-0-update-stuck-on-backup-extremely-slow/



Looks like they've deleted the first link....


----------



## Structaural (Aug 2, 2010)

miniGMgoit said:


> I'm updating a 3g (I know, it hardly seems worth it, the poor thing  ).
> Thanks for the heads up. I have tried all those ideas accept turning off the internet while its updating. Sound strange enough to work
> And yes Ed, I've just been reading the HTC Desire thread , it looks good. Interestingly Android phones are only available through Telstra down here. Anywhere else in Australia this would be a bad thing but up here in the wilds Telstra are by far the best provider and have way more coverage than anyone else.
> Its definatly worth a look. Apple have really pissed me off with this. I'm sure I'll be 2 weeks with out a phone again now (I washed mine about 12 months ago). I'm beginning to feel slightly uneasy about all the iPhones I see everywhere. Its a bit weird. What did you call it in the other thread? iBorg? LOL



You could try a restore (after syncing and creating a backup) and then copy everything back- I hear this is a better way to do it as some people have had problems with battery from an update...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 2, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Looks like they've deleted the first link....


 
Extraneous characters at the end of the link. It should be http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2477870&tstart=45


----------



## Bungle73 (Aug 2, 2010)

Anyone here had the "No SIM Card is installed " iPhone 4 error (Google it)?  Phone's been fine for 3 weeks, and I just started having it today


----------



## miniGMgoit (Aug 2, 2010)

I have no other options other than restore & update. The phone is stuck in recovery mode. Its fucked.


----------



## miniGMgoit (Aug 3, 2010)

Ok, took it to the Optus shop (provider out here in Oz) and they got it sorted. They said if it happens again uninstall iTunes and it should be right. I don't fucking want to uninstall iTunes. They clearly have no idea about how long it takes sort out iTunes with 120GB of music that has to be sorted, art worked, genius'd etc. Piss off Apple. HTC's looking better by the day.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Aug 3, 2010)

Reinstall?

It keeps its settings.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 3, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Reinstall?
> 
> It keeps its settings.


 
This ^^

Or back up the neccessary .itl and .xml files if you're that paranoid. There's info on Apple Support site of how to do this painlessly.


----------



## editor (Aug 3, 2010)

miniGMgoit said:


> Ok, took it to the Optus shop (provider out here in Oz) and they got it sorted. They said if it happens again uninstall iTunes and it should be right. I don't fucking want to uninstall iTunes. They clearly have no idea about how long it takes sort out iTunes with 120GB of music that has to be sorted, art worked, genius'd etc. Piss off Apple. HTC's looking better by the day.


 
I had a turgid time getting my iPhone to sync with the bag of cack that is iTunes, and Apple's email support was rubbish. I finally got things back to normal again by reinstalling everything but ended up having to pay for some apps (I'd been sent review copies, but Apple's procedure for installing them is so ludicrously fiddly I just gave up).


----------



## Structaural (Aug 3, 2010)

I heard updating iTunes sorted a few problems out, but I agree on the reinstall - right pain in the arse, I had to do it recently and lost all my starred songs, album artwork etc.

Spotify on the phone is annoying - if you use the remote mic to pause the tune then it opens the iPod and starts playing a tune.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 3, 2010)

It's also very easy to backup your starred songs/playlists etc etc...  Surely it's just like any other app and wanting to retain preferences????


----------



## Structaural (Aug 3, 2010)

Nah, mine had started to corrupt its database - files pointed to random system files so I had to move and reimport my library and I couldn't get the XLM data to work.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 3, 2010)

I'm always puzzled how these things happened. Ed's story above about iTunes is more baffling, iTunes is the easiest thing in the world, moving to a new machine I just dragged and dropped all my content over...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 3, 2010)

This is probably a stupid question, but I'm a stupid person, so here goes:

I'm going to get a Simplicity sim for him indoors to use my old 3G. I never updated it to iOS4 and have no intention of doing so (I'll be the one maintaining the phone for him because he's got absolutely no idea about technology - even less so than me). It's still got all my old settings on it from before I swapped the sim over to my new iPhone4. When I put the new sim in for him, what will happen? I imagine I'll have to plug it into iTunes as per a new phone? Or will it just accept the new sim and not need any computer jiggery-pokery? Will it wipe my data (this is fine - I'd probably restore to factory settings anyway so it's nice and new for him)? Will it try to install the new OS (this is not fine)? Under no circumstances do I want it to force an upgrade of OS. And of course, I want to know in advance because if there's no way around it I'm not buying the new contract.


----------



## Structaural (Aug 3, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> This is probably a stupid question, but I'm a stupid person, so here goes:
> 
> I'm going to get a Simplicity sim for him indoors to use my old 3G. I never updated it to iOS4 and have no intention of doing so (I'll be the one maintaining the phone for him because he's got absolutely no idea about technology - even less so than me). It's still got all my old settings on it from before I swapped the sim over to my new iPhone4. When I put the new sim in for him, what will happen? I imagine I'll have to plug it into iTunes as per a new phone? Or will it just accept the new sim and not need any computer jiggery-pokery? Will it wipe my data (this is fine - I'd probably restore to factory settings anyway so it's nice and new for him)? Will it try to install the new OS (this is not fine)? Under no circumstances do I want it to force an upgrade of OS. And of course, I want to know in advance because if there's no way around it I'm not buying the new contract.



I take it it's an unlocked phone or you have unlocked it? (not jailbroken - unlocked)


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 3, 2010)

It was O2 originally, and it will be O2 with the new contract. Does it still need to be unlocked? I thought unlocking was for using different carriers or switching between contract and PAYG.

I got a micro-sim before the iPhone 4 came out, activated it in the 3G. Then swapped it to the 4 when I got that, turned off the 3G and it's been in its box ever since.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Aug 3, 2010)

SIM in, plug it in, select the option to not restore it from a backup, should set it up as new phone.


----------



## Structaural (Aug 3, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> It was O2 originally, and it will be O2 with the new contract. Does it still need to be unlocked? I thought unlocking was for using different carriers or switching between contract and PAYG.
> 
> I got a micro-sim before the iPhone 4 came out, activated it in the 3G. Then swapped it to the 4 when I got that, turned off the 3G and it's been in its box ever since.


 
Oh right, same carrier - it's probably worth giving them a call to make sure, it'll either work, they'll unlock it or allow it to work with the new SIM. The carrier is in charge of the unlocking basically.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 3, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> SIM in, plug it in, select the option to not restore it from a backup, should set it up as new phone.



Ta. And it won't force an upgrade to the new OS? Because that's the bit I'm most worried about tbh. I know you can choose not to whenever you plug it into itunes, but it's jut because it's a new sim/new restory thingy 



Structaural said:


> Oh right, same carrier - it's probably worth giving them a call to make sure, it'll either work, they'll unlock it or allow it to work with the new SIM. The carrier is in charge of the unlocking basically.


 
We're going to go down to the shop anyway, so I guess they'll tell us that there. Cheers.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Aug 3, 2010)

Vintage Paw said:


> Ta. And it won't force an upgrade to the new OS? Because that's the bit I'm most worried about tbh. I know you can choose not to whenever you plug it into itunes, but it's jut because it's a new sim/new restory thingy



Nope, you've got to specifically tell it to upgrade a 3g, because OS4 isn't a recommended update for that handset.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 3, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Nope, you've got to specifically tell it to upgrade a 3g, because OS4 isn't a recommended update for that handset.



This is indeed excellent news. Thank you very much


----------



## miniGMgoit (Aug 4, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm always puzzled how these things happened. Ed's story above about iTunes is more baffling, iTunes is the easiest thing in the world, moving to a new machine I just dragged and dropped all my content over...


 
As a music player, your right, it is very easy to use. However they have integrated the iPhone into it and my post regarding it fucking up my iPhone should surely have been enough to make you at least think that there could be problems. I'm guessing you don't have an iPhone or at least if you do, don't update it very often. Ultimately my iPhone data is not stored within iTune but online somewhere (else how can they encourage us to uninstall iTunes and reinstall it again). The library file apparently becomes corrupted and this is why the whole thing has to go when it messes up. Why you can't just plug it in and it sorts its self out without going into iTunes is well, a bit weird really, forcing you to use iTunes. Also, I don't know if you have downloaded iTunes lately but the program is rapidly becoming massive. When you add on to it the iPhone additions that come out you can easily be downloading a shit load of stuff that you don't want or need, also I'm living in Darwin which only has ADSL1. The last time I updated iTunes and my phone it took all night to get the updates. Not Apples fault I know but they do seem to be quickly going the way of windows these days when it comes to bloat ware.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 4, 2010)

yep itunes is getting very bloated now. I wish they'd spin off the iphone/touch/pad sync stuff into a seperate app


----------



## g force (Aug 4, 2010)

Agreed....or you should get an option of what you want to access. I have zero interest in music videos, TV shows and films. Or indeed Celebrity Playlists


----------



## maldwyn (Aug 4, 2010)

I hate the way it syncs my phone and touch with the same shit - why o why can't it remember gaga on the phone carpenters on the touch


----------



## Crispy (Aug 4, 2010)

it should do - you get seperate management panes for each device


----------



## maldwyn (Aug 4, 2010)

I'll have another play and see if I can identify the separate panes but so far it's been syncing identical stuff on each device - apps (incl phone apps on the touch), music, books, photos etc

Perhaps if I plugged them both in at once and switched between devices identified  I might be able to see a difference.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 4, 2010)

miniGMgoit said:


> As a music player, your right, it is very easy to use. However they have integrated the iPhone into it and my post regarding it fucking up my iPhone should surely have been enough to make you at least think that there could be problems. I'm guessing you don't have an iPhone or at least if you do, don't update it very often. Ultimately my iPhone data is not stored within iTune but online somewhere (else how can they encourage us to uninstall iTunes and reinstall it again). The library file apparently becomes corrupted and this is why the whole thing has to go when it messes up. Why you can't just plug it in and it sorts its self out without going into iTunes is well, a bit weird really, forcing you to use iTunes. Also, I don't know if you have downloaded iTunes lately but the program is rapidly becoming massive. When you add on to it the iPhone additions that come out you can easily be downloading a shit load of stuff that you don't want or need, also I'm living in Darwin which only has ADSL1. The last time I updated iTunes and my phone it took all night to get the updates. Not Apples fault I know but they do seem to be quickly going the way of windows these days when it comes to bloat ware.


 
Apologies didn't mean to cause offense, it was a genuine point. I had an ipod from 2005 to 2009, then an iPhone, I've recently also moved from a windows laptop to a Macbook Pro. None of my experience of moving music or syncing across those devices or platforms have been anywhere near as complicated as yours.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 4, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apologies didn't mean to cause offense, it was a genuine point. I had an ipod from 2005 to 2009, then an iPhone, I've recently also moved from a windows laptop to a Macbook Pro. None of my experience of moving music or syncing across those devices or platforms have been anywhere near as complicated as yours.



This, I've had an iPod since 2000, and while I have the odd issue with iTunes, 1st off there are other sync apps available, 2nd its always worked well for me.

Are you sure your disk isn't corrupt in anyway?


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2010)

Sunray said:


> This, I've had an iPod since 2000, and while I have the odd issue with iTunes, 1st off there are other sync apps available, 2nd its always worked well for me.
> 
> Are you sure your disk isn't corrupt in anyway?


Is this the same as "you're holding it wrong"?  

FYI, I had similar problems with my iTunes/iPhone installation and had to reset everything - and there was no shortage of people online who had suffered the same thing.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 4, 2010)

thousands of pm's supporting me PMSL


----------



## editor (Aug 4, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> thousands of pm's supporting me PMSL


I can see what you're trying to do here, but I'm afraid you've just faceplanted into a muddy pool of fail.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 4, 2010)

editor said:


> I can see what you're trying to do here, but I'm afraid you've just faceplanted into a muddy pool of fail.


 
It was merely you rather lazy justification for it it's ok you know you're allowed to hate pietunes and it's bloaty methodology without going in to mega defense mode... 

Personally I think it's a bag'o shite program on doze and an ok and much better behaved program on macs but it's still a touch sucky that it's the only way to synch your piefone up and also that since os4 updates it regularly kills off your contacts corrupts and any number of other things including killing your apps etc...

it's not a just works part of the whole piefone experience... (however neither the piefone 4 as far as I'm concerned...)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 4, 2010)

editor said:


> Is this the same as "you're holding it wrong"?
> 
> FYI, I had similar problems with my iTunes/iPhone installation and had to reset everything - and there was no shortage of people online who had suffered the same thing.


 
Yep funny how you don't like and it has problems for you.


----------



## g force (Aug 5, 2010)

On a Mac it works pretty well - still some annoyances but it's a thousand times better than the PC version which began as a half decent bit of software and rapidly descended into a bloated mess.

One minor annoyance, that Apple in fairness did sort out after much emailing, was d/l tracks via itunes on the iphone, iTunes on the MacBook wouldn't recognise them and sync them over and when I upgarded to OS4 it 'lost' some albums and random tracks on the phone and I didn't have them backed up on the Macbook. Even Apple couldn't explain why...and eventually gave me a free dowload of the material.

In fairness one album was Vamprie Weekend so it wasn't about the music...more the principle


----------



## Sunray (Aug 5, 2010)

g force said:


> On a Mac it works pretty well - still some annoyances but it's a thousand times better than the PC version which began as a half decent bit of software and rapidly descended into a bloated mess.
> 
> One minor annoyance, that Apple in fairness did sort out after much emailing, was d/l tracks via itunes on the iphone, iTunes on the MacBook wouldn't recognise them and sync them over and when I upgarded to OS4 it 'lost' some albums and random tracks on the phone and I didn't have them backed up on the Macbook. Even Apple couldn't explain why...and eventually gave me a free dowload of the material.
> 
> In fairness one album was Vamprie Weekend so it wasn't about the music...more the principle


 
iOS4 has issues, its probably a bug in that.  There are quite a few.

Someone called me last night but that made it spaz out telling me that it had over heated and it needed to cool down.  I reset it and it had messed my wall papers about.  

iOS4 Definitely needs some work to get to the rugged reliability of v3.


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Someone called me last night but that made it spaz out telling me that it had over heated and it needed to cool down.  I reset it and it had messed my wall papers about.


Looks like quite a few people have had this overheating handset problem:

http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/06/29...erheating-warnings-on-otherwise-cool-iphones/
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=975816
http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-4-overheating-is-your-apple-handset-toasty-2992045/


----------



## Structaural (Aug 5, 2010)

Sunray said:


> iOS4 has issues, its probably a bug in that.  There are quite a few.
> 
> Someone called me last night but that made it spaz out telling me that it had over heated and it needed to cool down.  I reset it and it had messed my wall papers about.
> 
> iOS4 Definitely needs some work to get to the rugged reliability of v3.


 
Reseating the SIM might help, it has solved the problem for a couple of users...

I'm about to attempt a replacement of my 3G front panel, didn't know I needed a heatgun/hairdryer to complete it, hopefully I won't bork it, takes between 1 and 3 hours :-(


----------



## Sunray (Aug 5, 2010)

editor said:


> Looks like quite a few people have had this overheating handset problem:
> 
> http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/06/29...erheating-warnings-on-otherwise-cool-iphones/
> http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=975816
> http://www.slashgear.com/iphone-4-overheating-is-your-apple-handset-toasty-2992045/


 
Its just a bug.  v2 had a quite a few, v3 was quite good but still had issues. v4 is their worst, but its their most complex so not doing too badly. 

It will get better with time, they always have.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2010)

Proof the anti Apple brigade exists: 

http://bit.ly/ajyiKz

What a fucking tool!


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Proof the anti Apple brigade exists:
> 
> http://bit.ly/ajyiKz
> 
> What a fucking tool!


That's one idiot, not a "brigade"!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2010)

Tip of the iceberg.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 6, 2010)

New store opening in Covent Garden will have them froffing at the mouth.......


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> New store opening in Covent Garden will have them froffing at the mouth.......


 
Indeed...


----------



## Kanda (Aug 6, 2010)

Ha, it seems it was pre-empted seeing as Ed's off to Endorset, he posted it the other day: http://www.wirefresh.com/apple-covent-garden-store-opens-saturday-live-over-excited-previews-now/


----------



## maldwyn (Aug 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Ha, it seems it was pre-empted seeing as Ed's off to Endorset, he posted it the other day: http://www.wirefresh.com/apple-covent-garden-store-opens-saturday-live-over-excited-previews-now/


 
Was that a momentary lapse or has he always been so reserved. 

Yesterday I was in the Regent St store getting my iP4 replaced when it  occurred to me that might be my last visit - Covent Garden will be more convenient for me  - though walking through any apple door always gives me Bg spike.


----------



## paolo (Aug 6, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Ha, it seems it was pre-empted seeing as Ed's off to Endorset, he posted it the other day: http://www.wirefresh.com/apple-covent-garden-store-opens-saturday-live-over-excited-previews-now/


 
Hype and Hysteria, they go hand in hand round these parts.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Aug 8, 2010)

I've got a jailbroken 2g iphone and was about to buy an iP4...a friend who has one said I'd be better off buying an unlocked 3gs and waiting for the next gen iPhone next june...

is that madness?


----------



## nick (Aug 8, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> walking through any apple door always gives me Bg spike.


 
Having taken the kids to the transport museum yesterday afternoon, I thought it would be handy to pop into the new Apple store to see if I could get a phone case. It was 6pm, so wouldn't be so busy right?

Wrong: Still a huge queue out of the door for phones and, even after it had been open for 8 hours. I had to steel myself to run the gauntlet of the blue shirted whoopers. 
Despite my grimace they still insisted in doing it - neither they or I realising the impact that 20 yelling, high-fiving, pizza fed apple geeks would have on a 4 year old girl. 

It was with grim satisfaction that I then blocked the entrance to the store whilst I tried to stem the tears from a confused and frightened girl for a few minutes. 
She didn't like the store after that and I left without buying anything. I thing she may grow up to be a windows fan


----------



## paolo (Aug 8, 2010)

I went yesterday, to get a new iPhone. And, erm, an iPad. It was indeed mental. Got suckered by a queue that wasn't too long, but then fed another queue. Took about an hour and half. When i got to the front, I managed to put on a glazed look that seemed to quell the awful whooping.

The service was pretty good. They sit you down and offer to do any set up stuff you want. Amazingly, the whole number transfer thing went through before I'd even stood up to leave. Phone came alive and had voicemail there waiting. It's been trouble free so far. The iPad however is having WiFi glitches. Hmm.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 8, 2010)

What kind of glitches is the iPad having?


----------



## paolo (Aug 8, 2010)

Network (WiFi) stops responding.

WiFi connectivity still shows ok.

If I bounce it - flip to Airplane mode and back - it comes back to life. Very odd. I've had this on older iPhones, but not seen it at all on the 4 so far.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 8, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Network (WiFi) stops responding.
> 
> WiFi connectivity still shows ok.
> 
> If I bounce it - flip to Airplane mode and back - it comes back to life. Very odd. I've had this on older iPhones, but not seen it at all on the 4 so far.


 
I had it as well - very annoying it was too. It's router-related though, I think. It doesn't happen on OS4, but it was happening on the iPad with my old router. I've got a new router since then and now I have no trouble at all.

It's not an iPad issue certainly, it's an OS + router one.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 8, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Network (WiFi) stops responding.
> 
> WiFi connectivity still shows ok.
> 
> If I bounce it - flip to Airplane mode and back - it comes back to life. Very odd. I've had this on older iPhones, but not seen it at all on the 4 so far.


 
Ah right, have never managed to get onto the wifi net at home with my iPhone but then Orange Livebox is generally shite...


----------



## paolo (Aug 8, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I had it as well - very annoying it was too. It's router-related though, I think. It doesn't happen on OS4, but it was happening on the iPad with my old router. I've got a new router since then and now I have no trouble at all.
> 
> It's not an iPad issue certainly, it's an OS + router one.


 
Ah ok. I thought it could be that. I'm moving this week, so I'll see how it gets on with the router at the new place.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 8, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Ah ok. I thought it could be that. I'm moving this week, so I'll see how it gets on with the router at the new place.


 
FWIW the old router (which didn't work) was an old Sitecom one, and the new one is the one that came with my new O2 broadband. It's probably a standards or protocol thing.


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2010)

Kanda said:


> New store opening in Covent Garden will have them froffing at the mouth.......


Here's a video of it.



Do you wish you'd gone along and joined in?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 9, 2010)

I wonder how much the staff discount is for Apple store staff..?

(e2a: oh man this is fucking sweet, the embedded video keeps playing when you add a quick post!)


----------



## Kanda (Aug 10, 2010)

editor said:


> Do you wish you'd gone along and joined in?


 
Not at all. Why would I??


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 11, 2010)

editor said:


> Do you wish you'd gone along and joined in?


 
OMG. I'm with Ed on this. Its just embarrassing stuff all that faux wooping and cheering.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 11, 2010)

What did they do to those people? How do they make them like that?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 11, 2010)

teuchter said:


> What did they do to those people? How do they make them like that?


 
Like I asked above about staff discount, retail pay ain't great so they must have wicked discount on Apple products to bring themselves to act like that..!


----------



## editor (Aug 11, 2010)

Kanda said:


> Not at all. Why would I??


You normally get new the latest shiny Apple products just about as soon as they become available, so I thought you may have been equally keen to check out what is their biggest store in the known universe.

Did you watch the video, btw? What do you think of it?



Kid_Eternity said:


> Like I asked above about staff discount, retail pay ain't great so they must have wicked discount on Apple products to bring themselves to act like that..!


If I was expected to whoop, clap, chant, hug and high five like that in public, I'd want the products for_ free!_

Oh, and apparently Apple employees are not allowed to talk about their discounts as part of their employment contract, but there's an outdated guide here.


----------



## elbows (Aug 11, 2010)

Argh its like being trapped in a recurring nightmare. Get some new material, like I dont when I repeat myself endlessly about peak oil etc.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 11, 2010)

editor said:


> You normally get new the latest shiny Apple products just about as soon as they become available, so I thought you may have been equally keen to check out what is their biggest store in the known universe.
> 
> Did you watch the video, btw? What do you think of it?



No, have no interest in going to see a new store opening. I don't need to watch the videos either, they're all a bit ridiculous. Nor do I get so heated about it and feel a need to pre-empt a store opening and post about it on my website a few days earlier because I'm likely to be at a festival when it opens 

Sure, I got an iPad on release, happy I did. I haven't ever queued for anything else. I've not got any generation iphone on release day either.... 

You seem more interested in the store opening than I to be honest.


----------



## editor (Aug 11, 2010)

Kanda said:


> You seem more interested in the store opening than I to be honest.


LOL. I made no mention of it here. You brought it up in post #7930 and then went on about it again two posts later just to mention something I'd written _on another website!_ 

Seeing as you seemed so interested, I thought you'd like to see the video.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 11, 2010)

No harm in funny it funny you posting up about a store opening before it had opened. With all the same cliches as usual, just cos you were at a festie when it opened.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 11, 2010)

editor said:


> You normally get new the latest shiny Apple products just about as soon as they become available, so I thought you may have been equally keen to check out what is their biggest store in the known universe.
> 
> Did you watch the video, btw? What do you think of it?
> 
> ...


 
They're not allowed to talk about it!?


----------



## Kanda (Aug 11, 2010)

I'm contractually bound to not talk about my compensation package too, not a big deal is it?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Aug 11, 2010)

Fairly standard in most employment contracts, surely.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 11, 2010)

Kanda said:


> I'm contractually bound to not talk about my compensation package too, not a big deal is it?


 
Staff discounts? Nope never known any friends who've worked retail having to sign a nda.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 11, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Staff discounts? Nope never known any friends who've worked retail having to sign a nda.


 
We did at Sega...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 11, 2010)

Kanda said:


> We did at Sega...


 
SEGA had retail outlets?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 12, 2010)

Did you all have to sing "SEGA" when the store opened each day?


----------



## Kanda (Aug 12, 2010)

Everyone used to get roped into shit, Sonic Outfits etc etc


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 13, 2010)

editor said:


> Oh, and apparently Apple employees are not allowed to talk about their discounts as part of their employment contract, but there's an outdated guide here.


 
which is not only outdated but utterly irrelevant in the UK as we're covered by European and UK employment law not US ... so what has this got to do with the thread or the current topic of conversation at all in relation the the CG store?


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> ... so what has this got to do with the thread or the current topic of conversation at all in relation the the CG store?


Ask Kid Eternity, because earlier on he posted:


> I wonder how much the staff discount is for Apple store staff..?


I was answering that question.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 13, 2010)

Yep, I asked because it was the only thing I could rationally think would make doing that high fiving stuff bearable.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 13, 2010)

When I bought the iPad I asked the guy in the store about it. He said they enjoy it and volunteer for it. It makes a change to the usual day, bit of fun etc... bonkers!


----------



## elbows (Aug 13, 2010)

Well a lot of people do put up with far worse at work, especially working in retail. I really couldnt face doing it myself but there are plenty of other personality types that probably could. Heck if I was much younger maybe I could have just about stomached it, hard to say.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 15, 2010)

4.0.2 out this weekend it seems.... wonder if it'll fix the signal issues....


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 15, 2010)

4.0.2 just fixes the PDF security flaw as far I know.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 15, 2010)

it's taking an absolute age to connect to the confirmation server that's for sure...


----------



## Sunray (Aug 16, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, I asked because it was the only thing I could rationally think would make doing that high fiving stuff bearable.


 
Its not the high fives I have a problem with, its the clapping.  Its totally vacuous and empty.  Clapping is a human response to signal you've enjoyed something, a quality tackle, a well delivered performance whatever.  Standing clapping for no obvious reason for ages is weird to watch and much be even stranger to actually do.  Bit like saying a word over and over, quite quickly it loses all meaning.


----------



## grit (Aug 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Its not the high fives I have a problem with, its the clapping.  Its totally vacuous and empty.  Clapping is a human response to signal you've enjoyed something, a quality tackle, a well delivered performance whatever.  Standing clapping for no obvious reason for ages is weird to watch and much be even stranger to actually do.  Bit like saying a word over and over, quite quickly it loses all meaning.


 
The clapping is a response to enjoying the apple products?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 17, 2010)

grit said:


> The clapping is a response to enjoying the apple products?


 
is it... or is it that they like many other cults have been whipped up in to a mass hysteria?


----------



## Sunray (Aug 17, 2010)

Couple of games of note that I have stumbled across on free app a day.  http://www.freeappaday.com/ if you didn't already know.  

DreamScape and Tilt to live.  Both are very simple ideas executed well and are pretty addictive.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 17, 2010)

Get all my games from FAAP. Keep only about 10% of them but it is a great little app for sure.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 17, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> is it... or is it that they like many other cults have been whipped up in to a mass hysteria?


 
Not sure clapping is the Apple staff whipped up into hysteria.  I don't want to imagine what they are capable of if they got one of those American 'Motivational' dudes to actually get them all going before hand. Perhaps they do, just all us Brits can manage is a bit of clapping.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 17, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Get all my games from FAAP. Keep only about 10% of them but it is a great little app for sure.



I've stopped using it so much now, the novelty of endless free games started to wear off after I realised I had 'Games V' folder.  

Oh one other I got was a proper old school RTS, quite like a fired up C&C clone.  Surprisingly good. Err..ahh Warfare Inc.


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Not sure clapping is the Apple staff whipped up into hysteria.  I don't want to imagine what they are capable of if they got one of those American 'Motivational' dudes to actually get them all going before hand. Perhaps they do, just all us Brits can manage is a bit of clapping.


Have you not watched the video all the way through? They do a whole lot more than just clap - they hug, they whoop, they shout, they chant and high-five each other while beaming with joy - and it would be an understandable mistake for a passer by to assume that they were some sort of cult whipped up into a form of quasi-religious hysteria.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Not sure clapping is the Apple staff whipped up into hysteria.  I don't want to imagine what they are capable of if they got one of those American 'Motivational' dudes to actually get them all going before hand. Perhaps they do, just all us Brits can manage is a bit of clapping.


 
I think that's what passes for hysteria in the UK mate...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 17, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I've stopped using it so much now, the novelty of endless free games started to wear off after I realised I had 'Games V' folder.
> 
> Oh one other I got was a proper old school RTS, quite like a fired up C&C clone.  Surprisingly good. Err..ahh Warfare Inc.


 
Yeah WI is pretty cool, first played it on the Palm Centro!


----------



## Will2403 (Aug 18, 2010)

Any good iphone friendly p&g deals out there at the moment. o2 have pretty much cut us off, orange's dolphin tariff allows a max of 100mb per month.. havent checked the other 3 yet as i doubt there is anything better than o2's crappy simplicity tariff.

apart from turning off push notifications and not using safari so much what else can i do to cut down my usage?  can you prevent safari from loading images?

according to my phone i've received 15.5GB in a year and sent 870mb.  I think its a year, although the phone did crash back to factory settings back in february.  i got this message from them a few weeks ago...



> O2: Your data usage is exceptionally high and is affecting the service for other customers. This is against our excessive use policy. To comply with our policy you need to dramatically & immediately reduce your usage. One way to do this is ...by using your home broadband Wi-Fi or public Wi-Fi hotspots such as BT Openzone and The Cloud. Don't forget you get unlimited Wi-Fi on all our data tariffs. Please go to o2.co.uk/datainfo for more information. If you do not immediately moderate your usage we will have to stop you from using data on your mobile.


----------



## Will2403 (Aug 18, 2010)

also are o2 p&g iphones automatically unlocked after a year or do i have to call them up?


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Aug 18, 2010)

it might be worth looking at this guide to all the iphone deals out there..though I'm STILL dithering!

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/deals/cheap-iphone


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 18, 2010)

Wow, Will, how the fuck did you download 15GB in 6 months over a data connection?!

That's some serious porn browsing!


----------



## stupid dogbot (Aug 18, 2010)

Will2403 said:


> also are o2 p&g iphones automatically unlocked after a year or do i have to call them up?


 
They charge £15 to unlock a prepay...


----------



## Sunray (Aug 18, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Wow, Will, how the fuck did you download 15GB in 6 months over a data connection?!
> 
> That's some serious porn browsing!


 
This, on an iPhone its difficult to imagine what your doing apart from no-stop YouTube and streaming tv and radio and downloading endless applications.


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2010)

This looks awesome if you're a guitarist.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2010)

editor said:


> This looks awesome if you're a guitarist.


 
That's pretty impressive.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 18, 2010)

I didn't understand any of what he said so i'm so obviously not a guitarist. Still it was impressive. Turned your iPhone into a magic box of music tricks.


----------



## paolo (Aug 18, 2010)

editor said:


> This looks awesome if you're a guitarist.




It doesn't look anything if you're reading this thread on an iThing. 

(Maybe I should post in the feedback / new forum software thread. Video embeds don't render anything in mobile safari).


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> It doesn't look anything if you're reading this thread on an iThing.
> 
> (Maybe I should post in the feedback / new forum software thread. Video embeds don't render anything in mobile safari).


That's got nothing to do with us, but everything to do with the overlords at Apple banning Flash off all iPhones and iPads forever. 

I see a link to the YouTube app or the browser, both of which plays the clip fine on my Android/Tapatalk phone, btw. 

http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...sons_why_Flash_isn_t_going_away?taxonomyId=18


----------



## paolo (Aug 19, 2010)

editor said:


> That's got nothing to do with us, but everything to do with the overlords at Apple banning Flash off all iPhones and iPads forever.
> 
> I see a link to the YouTube app or the browser, both of which plays the clip fine on my Android/Tapatalk phone, btw.
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...sons_why_Flash_isn_t_going_away?taxonomyId=18



Out of interest, if someone embeds a YouTube video here, does it work? YouTube works on iPhones etc. Not as an embed of course, but if vBulletin rendered a link, it would be usable.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 19, 2010)

I think it's an issue with vbulletin. youtube embeds work everywhere else on my ipad


----------



## Winot (Aug 19, 2010)

Quick question if I may - I have an unlocked iPhone 3G (out of contract).  Can Mrs Winot use it with a pre-pay sim and port her existing Vodafone payg number?  Would the pre-pay sim have to be from Vodafone?  And how does it work - do you load it with cash like a payg Oyster card?

Thanks.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 19, 2010)

Have Spotify Premium now
It is really, really good and I have not once used iTunes since upgrading it. 
Spotify is better sound quality and twice the volume as iTunes too. 
You can run Spotify in the background while using other apps.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 19, 2010)

editor said:


> That's got nothing to do with us, but everything to do with the overlords at Apple banning Flash off all iPhones and iPads forever.
> 
> I see a link to the YouTube app or the browser, both of which plays the clip fine on my Android/Tapatalk phone, btw.
> 
> http://www.computerworld.com/s/arti...sons_why_Flash_isn_t_going_away?taxonomyId=18


 


Crispy said:


> I think it's an issue with vbulletin. youtube embeds work everywhere else on my ipad


 
So, which is it??


----------



## Kanda (Aug 19, 2010)

HTML5 Continuing to Gain Ground With Yahoo! Mail for iPad, Vimeo Embedding


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 19, 2010)

Kanda said:


> So, which is it??


 
Youtube embeds normally work fine for me too, with a linking placeholder; I just checked one I posted myself elsewhere over a year ago, so it's not some modern thing. The vbulletin module must be doing something odd to put them in.


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2010)

Kanda said:


> HTML5 Continuing to Gain Ground With Yahoo! Mail for iPad, Vimeo Embedding


 "Gaining ground" isn't much help when you want to view Flash content today though is it? No matter how you spin it, not being able to access vast amounts of web content is a pain in the arse, especially on the iPad.

There's still a fair way to go before HTML can replace Flash too: http://www.mediabistro.com/webnewse...rs_worried_about_html5_development_170788.asp


----------



## Will2403 (Aug 19, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> Wow, Will, how the fuck did you download 15GB in 6 months over a data connection?!
> 
> That's some serious porn browsing!


 
haha rumbled. yes, fair to say I've watched one or two (hundred) spankwire vids.
Was in a psych ward for 3 months and there was fuck all else to do. 





Lots of Youtube, Facebook, websites, quite a few apps... I guess it all adds up.
I think it was over the whole year rather than 6 months as the reset stats should show a reset even if its a factory reset no?

I'm gonna try o2 text n web and see how I go.


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2010)

The new way to embed youtube videos makes use of an iframe and it then decides whether to serve flash or html5 based on the browser & device. The old way, which this forum seems to use and so doesnt work on ipad etc, is to embed/use object of type application/x-shockwave-flash which clearly isnt going to work on the ipad. It could take some time for various web software plugins to use the new method.

A blog post from youtube explaining this new way to embed:

http://apiblog.youtube.com/2010/07/new-way-to-embed-youtube-videos.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 19, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Have Spotify Premium now
> It is really, really good and I have not once used iTunes since upgrading it.
> Spotify is better sound quality and twice the volume as iTunes too.
> You can run Spotify in the background while using other apps.


 
Been really getting back into this, loving browsing friends playlists, tempted to get a premium account.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Aug 20, 2010)

Advice required please- I may be being really thick, but how do I get photo's off my iPhone 4, so that portrait photo's are portrait?

I imported lots of photo's last night, but they are all landscape. If I view them through my camera software they are portrait, but when I upload to facebook they are landscape. I got the photo's off the phone via cut & paste, haven't worked out how to do it on itunes.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 20, 2010)

elbows said:


> The new way to embed youtube videos makes use of an iframe and it then decides whether to serve flash or html5 based on the browser & device. The old way, which this forum seems to use and so doesnt work on ipad etc, is to embed/use object of type application/x-shockwave-flash which clearly isnt going to work on the ipad. It could take some time for various web software plugins to use the new method.
> 
> A blog post from youtube explaining this new way to embed:
> 
> http://apiblog.youtube.com/2010/07/new-way-to-embed-youtube-videos.html


 
I've implemented this, does it work now?


----------



## paolo (Aug 20, 2010)

Post a video and I'll tell you


----------



## Crispy (Aug 20, 2010)




----------



## paolo (Aug 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


>




Very good. Watching on the bus. 

A little less hysteria mr Ed.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 20, 2010)

elbows said:


> The new way to embed youtube videos makes use of an iframe and it then decides whether to serve flash or html5 based on the browser & device. The old way, which this forum seems to use and so doesnt work on ipad etc, is to embed/use object of type application/x-shockwave-flash which clearly isnt going to work on the ipad. It could take some time for various web software plugins to use the new method.
> 
> A blog post from youtube explaining this new way to embed:
> 
> http://apiblog.youtube.com/2010/07/new-way-to-embed-youtube-videos.html


 
Odd. The embed I C&Ped from the youtube vid (over a year ago which works on the iPad) doesn't do either; it's an application/futuresplash object.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 20, 2010)

DIMPLES1 said:


> Advice required please- I may be being really thick, but how do I get photo's off my iPhone 4, so that portrait photo's are portrait?
> 
> I imported lots of photo's last night, but they are all landscape. If I view them through my camera software they are portrait, but when I upload to facebook they are landscape. I got the photo's off the phone via cut & paste, haven't worked out how to do it on itunes.


 

that's the only way the only other thing to do is to get hold of a second and better digital camera and take a photo of the photos on the iPhone with that then downloading those to your computer.  This also allows you too increase the megapixel ratio in the image as the iPhone only has a tiny megapxiel camera so you can in effect get better photos this way ... it's an apple feature...


----------



## Crispy (Aug 20, 2010)

iphone presents a DCIM folder to your computer, so any decent photo management software should see it and interpret the orientation data and display the images correctly. Try Picasa.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Aug 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> iphone presents a DCIM folder to your computer, so any decent photo management software should see it and interpret the orientation data and display the images correctly. Try Picasa.


 
or there's that...


----------



## Crispy (Aug 20, 2010)

Ah, I see your "photo software" already displays the images correctly, but it's facebook with the issue. You'll have to use your photo software's Export function to write out copies of the images. Or use Picasa, which has a plugin for facebook uploads http://apps.facebook.com/picasauploader/


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Aug 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Ah, I see your "photo software" already displays the images correctly, but it's facebook with the issue. You'll have to use your photo software's Export function to write out copies of the images. Or use Picasa, which has a plugin for facebook uploads http://apps.facebook.com/picasauploader/


 

Yes. Yes. Yes.

It works.  Thank you very much


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 22, 2010)

Game recommendation for War of Eustrath. It's a sorta anime rpg/turn-based strategy game with some appalling Engrish which only adds to the game. 

I love it. 

£3.49 mind. 

There's an HD version for the iPad, which is making me want an iPad.


----------



## Me76 (Aug 22, 2010)

Quick question:  After obsessing for months I am now looking on e-bay to get a 16gb 3gs handset.  I need to check though - as long as I get it unlocked or on O2, will I be able to put in my PAYG Text and Web sim and use the phone ok?


----------



## kropotkin (Aug 22, 2010)

Yea that's fine


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 22, 2010)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/08/20/apple_jailbreak_patent/


----------



## Vintage Paw (Aug 22, 2010)

Him indoors now has my 3G set up. It's like watching a child take their first steps. This is his first colour screen phone. He even tweeted while out shopping earlier. And on Friday he took a photo of his kettle in his office.

Bless him.


----------



## elbows (Aug 23, 2010)

Im happy to hear via the usual 'Steve Jobs email published to the net' channel that a fix for the dreadful iOS 4 performance on older iphones sounds like it is coming soon.


----------



## elbows (Aug 23, 2010)

Oh and thanks Crispy for the iOS youtube video embeds fix, Ive not had a chance to try yet, trying to do too many things at once again.


----------



## Structaural (Aug 25, 2010)

Just setup my iphone 4, crispy init?

*plays*


----------



## ash (Aug 25, 2010)

This probably sounds a stupid question but here goes.  I have an itunes on my computer with stuff on it.  I have also downloaded stuff on my ipod touch.  If I connect my ipod to the computer and it synchs will the tracks on my ipod go onto my itunes account?  I am worried that the synching will delete the stuff I have downloaded directly onto the ipod and replace it with the stuff in my itunes library.  Help??


----------



## Crispy (Aug 25, 2010)

yes, it will copy your purchases onto your computer


----------



## ash (Aug 25, 2010)

I will give it a go


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Aug 26, 2010)

I'm thinking of getting an iPhone, have they sorted out the signal problems now?


----------



## Structaural (Aug 26, 2010)

Okay this is the mutt's nutts. I'm well impressed with iOS4 multitasking and the speed of this phone, wifi gives me about 6500kb d/l (t-mobile nederlands still give unlimited 3G too). Resolution is stunning. Build is quality. Running Spotify or TuneIn Radio while surfing or playing games is just perfect. Haven't had any antennae problems yet - but then I've put a cover on it already. Gyroscope app shows how well the new widget works btw.

I'll stop there - a very nice bit of kit.

How do I put PDFs into iBook? (and why is the iBook store so crap - can I put books from other sources into it?)


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 26, 2010)

Structaural said:


> How do I put PDFs into iBook? (and why is the iBook store so crap - can I put books from other sources into it?)


Open it in Mail or Safari and it'll give you the option to "Open in iBooks"


----------



## Crispy (Aug 26, 2010)

OR, drag it onto iBooks' file upload box in iTunes on your computer.


----------



## maldwyn (Aug 26, 2010)

Structaural said:


> How do I put PDFs into iBook? (and why is the iBook store so crap - can I put books from other sources into it?)


 
I drag books (from any source) onto iBooks in iTunes (as Crispy explained) but to get my PDF's on my bookshelf  I drag and drop into Purchased then sync my iphone.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 26, 2010)

Or get goodreader, it's much better.


----------



## Structaural (Aug 26, 2010)

Cheers everyone. (at 79¢ for goodreader, I'd better take a look)


----------



## Crispy (Aug 26, 2010)

I use Cloudreader which is free I think


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Aug 26, 2010)

I use Stanza as a free book reader..very nice, you can download gutenberg freeby books within the app


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 26, 2010)

Forgot to say, in goodreader you can do USB transfer.


----------



## Structaural (Aug 26, 2010)

I've bought goodreader to check out when I get home. I've got Stanza from years ago - does it no longer have it's own desktop app? (I get a 404 when I try and get it).

Does the iPhone allow sharing of App specific docs like on the iPad?


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Aug 26, 2010)

never heard nothing about a desktop version of stanza

I now have a shiny new ip4..enjoying it very much, it's quite a jump from my original iphone 2g


----------



## Structaural (Aug 26, 2010)

I went from a 3G (same as a 2g but with 3G chip), it is quite a difference, like going from pentium 4 to quad-core.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 26, 2010)

yes it does


----------



## Crispy (Aug 26, 2010)

Yet more accidental thread closure. Sorry!


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Aug 26, 2010)

None of you people answered my bloody question 
I'm thinking about getting an iPhone as I'm about to upgrade and could get the 16GB one really cheap but is that enough memory? I can imagine I'll want to take pictures a lot and will probably fill that up quite fast, plus I have about 12GB of music on my iPod and that's not nearly half of what I want on it... Oh yes, and the reception thing, is it rubbish or what?
I'm dithering.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 27, 2010)

Get it, you wont regret it, the reception stories are just the Editor's overactive anti apple imagination...


----------



## editor (Aug 27, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Get it, you wont regret it, the reception stories are just the Editor's overactive anti apple imagination...


You really, *really* need to get over your weird obsession with this "anti-Apple" stuff, and I've no idea why you're dragging me into this.

The reception problems with the iPhone 4 are very well documented indeed (why do you think Apple dished out free bumpers?) but as I've already said, for many users it won't pose much of a problem, if at all.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 27, 2010)

I've had no issues with reception, like about 98% of other iPhone users. Even the small amount that have had issues, a case sorts it. I don't know anyone that uses any iPhone without a case, it's quite an expensive device.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 27, 2010)

editor said:


> You really, *really* need to get over your weird obsession with this "anti-Apple" stuff, and I've no idea why you're dragging me into this.
> 
> The reception problems with the iPhone 4 are very well documented indeed (why do you think Apple dished out free bumpers?) but as I've already said, for many users it won't pose much of a problem, if at all.



Relax it was just a stupid joke, nobody honestly believes you made up all those reception stories to get at Apple...


----------



## maldwyn (Aug 27, 2010)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> None of you people answered my bloody question
> I'm thinking about getting an iPhone as I'm about to upgrade and could get the 16GB one really cheap but is that enough memory? I can imagine I'll want to take pictures a lot and will probably fill that up quite fast, plus I have about 12GB of music on my iPod and that's not nearly half of what I want on it... Oh yes, and the reception thing, is it rubbish or what? I'm dithering.


You've more-or-less answered your own question regarding memory, go for the max 32GB - the video cam is good too and will take up a lot of memory.

I'm one of the few with reception issues and it can be a little irritating if I forget and have my hand cover the bottom left hand corner in a poor signal area, even with the bumper on, however this is easily remedied by repositioning my hand and I don't make enough calls for it to bother me

No regrets. I'd say go for it.

If I didn't have the iP4, I'd probably be looking at the blackberry touch.


----------



## Me76 (Aug 28, 2010)

I just won a 16gb 3gs from ebay - very excited now!


----------



## Structaural (Aug 28, 2010)

Crispy said:


> OR, drag it onto iBooks' file upload box in iTunes on your computer.


 
For some reason iBook isn't showing in the upload bit, so I've been using Goodreader (nice auto scroll for reading).


----------



## kropotkin (Aug 30, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> I use Stanza as a free book reader..very nice, you can download gutenberg freeby books within the app


 
Yeah, Stanza with the drinkmalk.com ebook source added.
Goodreader is the best for pdfs as butchers says, but they aren't very good on the iphone. The best way to view that sort of content is to get it into an offline reader such as instapaper.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 1, 2010)

Recommend me some games/apps please! Ones that show off the 3GS/4 if possible. (I'm already downloading Osmos)

I'm a bit out of touch and my Applestore is full of dutch stuff.


----------



## elbows (Sep 1, 2010)

Automatic HDR photo capture coming today with iOS 4.1 looks quite nice.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 1, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Recommend me some games/apps please! Ones that show off the 3GS/4 if possible. (I'm already downloading Osmos)
> 
> I'm a bit out of touch and my Applestore is full of dutch stuff.


 
Just keep going to www.freeappaday.com every day and over a few weeks your gaming boots will get filled.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 2, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Just keep going to www.freeappaday.com every day and over a few weeks your gaming boots will get filled.


 
Cheers mate. That demo of Epic Citadel is well impressive (from yesterday's mac thingey) - full res unreal engine.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 7, 2010)

went to a forum on my iphone today and it auto-recommended tapatalk...any idea what's the current best app for using u75 on an iphone?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 7, 2010)

I was using Tapatalk (the paid version), but it's gotten worse and worse, more and more buggy and crashy with each update, so I ditched it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 7, 2010)

I have TouchBB - it seems to work fairly well. Used to be crashy and buggy for a bit but now seems much better (lots of apps were crashy at first with iOS 4). You can do most things, though I have to switch to Safari when I want to ban people. If. If I want to ban people. Also you can't quote posts in replies, well you can but you have to do it manually.


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2010)

I wish we had the skills to write an proper dedicated urban75 app....


----------



## magneze (Sep 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I wish we had the skills to write an proper dedicated urban75 app....


Many of the "dedicated" apps for forums that I've seen are actually based on Tapatalk.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> I was using Tapatalk (the paid version), but it's gotten worse and worse, more and more buggy and crashy with each update, so I ditched it.


 
Weird I've been using the paid version since it came out and it's only got better and better. Very stable now...


----------



## Badgers (Sep 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> I was using Tapatalk (the paid version), but it's gotten worse and worse, more and more buggy and crashy with each update, so I ditched it.


 


Kid_Eternity said:


> Weird I've been using the paid version since it came out and it's only got better and better. Very stable now...


 
Yup, my paid version is fine 90% of the time


----------



## teuchter (Sep 7, 2010)

editor said:


> I wish we had the skills to write an proper dedicated urban75 app....


 
The effort would be better spent creating a decent touch-optimised mobile skin.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 7, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Yup, my paid version is fine 90% of the time


 
no probs with mine either


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 7, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Weird I've been using the paid version since it came out and it's only got better and better. Very stable now...


 


Badgers said:


> Yup, my paid version is fine 90% of the time



Both got 3GSes, no?

Mine's a 4, perhaps that's what caused it...?

Anyway, it was definitely app problems.


----------



## Leafster (Sep 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Both got 3GSes, no?
> 
> Mine's a 4, perhaps that's what caused it...?
> 
> Anyway, it was definitely app problems.


I use the paid for Tapatalk app on my 3GS and it seems to work OK although I might not use it enough to pick up any possible problems.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 7, 2010)

It was always ok on my 3G (hence me buying it).

Only piece of software I've ever seen crash the UI completely on the 4, however.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Both got 3GSes, no?
> 
> Mine's a 4, perhaps that's what caused it...?
> 
> Anyway, it was definitely app problems.



Have 3GS but running the 4 software


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Both got 3GSes, no?
> 
> Mine's a 4, perhaps that's what caused it...?
> 
> Anyway, it was definitely app problems.


 
3GS running iOS4.


----------



## grit (Sep 7, 2010)

teuchter said:


> The effort would be better spent creating a decent touch-optimised mobile skin.


 
Absolutely


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 7, 2010)

Does anyone know of any good contract deals on the iPhone at the moment?
I asked my current provider and the best they could do was a 24month contract @£45/month with the phone costing £139. meh. they're not giving me any discount on phone or tarriff for an upgrade which I reckon is *shit*. 
i've never paid for a phone before, never had a 24month contract and they've always given me some incentive to stay with them. bastards.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 7, 2010)

£1.219.00 wtf?


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 7, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> £1.219.00 wtf?


 
Yeah I know, I just added it up and thought


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 7, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 3GS running iOS4.


 
So NOT the same.


----------



## elbows (Sep 7, 2010)

You wont get the same deals with an iphone that you do on many other sorts of phones, especially non-smart phones. So it is a bit of a shock how much they end up costing.

I havent shopped around so dont know the very best deal but with the likes of o2 you can also get one for £30 a month on a 18 month contract but you would have to stump up £229 or £329 upfront depending on which capacity you go for (16GB or 32GB). This is much cheaper overall than the 24 month option you mention, but thats also because with the £45 24 month option you mention, you get 1200 minutes a month as opposed to 100 minutes.

Pay and go options have the handset at around the £500 mark.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> So NOT the same.


 
Can't see how it'd be any different, the app runs based on the OS, iOS4 runs largely the same on the 3GS as it does on the iPhone 4...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 7, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Can't see how it'd be any different, the app runs based on the OS, iOS4 runs largely the same on the 3GS as it does on the iPhone 4...



Oh, well naturally I'll re-install it based on your supposition say-so!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Oh, well naturally I'll re-install it based on your supposition say-so!


 
Um...ok...no idea why you're being weird about this, just saying that the app is running ok for me and pretty much always has done...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 7, 2010)

Opinions may differ. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## Me76 (Sep 7, 2010)

I have just downloaded the free version to have a look at this. It is very different. I will use it for a day or so before I pay for it. It is ridiculous how tight I am when it is coming to apps. I wouldn't think twice about spending £1.79 in real life but it seems like a huge investment in the app store!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Opinions may differ. Thanks for sharing.


 
Couldn't agree more, hope you feel better.


----------



## elbows (Sep 10, 2010)

It been a great week for developers who want flexibility when it comes to development tool choices:

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/09/09...evelopment-tools-publishes-review-guidelines/



> In particular, we are relaxing all restrictions on the development tools used to create iOS apps, as long as the resulting apps do not download any code. This should give developers the flexibility they want, while preserving the security we need.



This leads to Adobe resuming work on the flash->iOS thing.



> Apple’s announcement today that it has lifted restrictions on its third-party developer guidelines has direct implications for Adobe’s Packager for iPhone, a feature in the Flash Professional CS5 authoring tool. This feature was created to enable Flash developers to quickly and easily deliver applications for iOS devices. The feature is available for developers to use today in Flash Professional CS5, and we will now resume development work on this feature for future releases.



They have also relaxed their rules about collection of analytical data. Methinks they smelt legal trouble coming.

These developments meanthat I will seriously consider switching my dev plans away from web-based stuff, and an investment in Unity 3D seems likely for me. Hooray.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Both got 3GSes, no?
> 
> Mine's a 4, perhaps that's what caused it...?
> 
> Anyway, it was definitely app problems.



Im on a 4g...... no problems.

maybe delete it and re-sync it back on?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 12, 2010)

Already done all that.

I'm going to stick with it just being a shitty piece of software.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 12, 2010)

Hmmm.....

anyone dont the 4.1 update? I really havent noticed that much difference between normal photos and HDR photos.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 12, 2010)

It's an odd update.

I've noticed a little improvement with HDR, in the right lighting.

The games center doesn't seem to have any games available 

The proximity sensor now glows and supposedly bluetooth is improved.

And not forgetting Ping.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> It's an odd update.
> 
> I've noticed a little improvement with HDR, in the right lighting.
> 
> ...



Haven't bothered with Ping, not sure what to make of the Game Centre given how crappy it was at letting me sign in and as you say there's not many games just yet...


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 13, 2010)

on iphone4 i notice a big difference in the photos with HDR...


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 13, 2010)

I got thew phone and it's very good, I like the cameras very very much 
HOWEVER
I'm now having problems with the mail app.... 
edit: i've fixed it now because i'm a wizard 

Oh yeah, I got a bit lost using the maps thing the other day  had a tutorial from a pro though so I now know that you've got to shake it or something for it to find your location. I've ordered my free bumper too because I love a freebie


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 13, 2010)

Argh, no idea what I've done, was syncing my iphone 4 last night - don't know if it had finished or not & now it is frozen on a screen with a picture of the itunes logo, an arrow & the usb cable . . . . if I plug the phone into the computer it doesn't register it. If I turn the phone on & off it goes straight back to this frozen screen after a brief flash of the apple. 

Any ideas of what to do please?


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 13, 2010)

Go into itunes and try to sync the device maybe?


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 13, 2010)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Go into itunes and try to sync the device maybe?


 
the computer isn't registering the phone, so I can't


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 13, 2010)

Oh. Is there an apple support phoneline?


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 13, 2010)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Oh. Is there an apple support phoneline?


 
I've no idea. I have got full CPW insurance on it, but never received the welcome pack. I'll go down to a shop later.


*weeps*


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 13, 2010)

Have you tried resetting the iPhone?  To reset, press and hold the Sleep/Wake button and the Home button together for at least ten seconds, until the Apple logo appears.

Mac, iPhone, iPod and iPad customers within 90 days of ownership are eligible for complimentary phone support — one support incident per iPod and unlimited incidents per Mac and iPad.

U.K. iPhone, iPod, Mac and iPad technical support: 0844 209 0611


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 13, 2010)

Lazy Llama said:


> Have you tried resetting the iPhone?  To reset, press and hold the Sleep/Wake button and the Home button together for at least ten seconds, until the Apple logo appears.
> 
> Mac, iPhone, iPod and iPad customers within 90 days of ownership are eligible for complimentary phone support — one support incident per iPod and unlimited incidents per Mac and iPad.
> 
> U.K. iPhone, iPod, Mac and iPad technical support: 0844 209 0611


 
I've tried resetting it. It just goes back to the same screen.

Thanks for the number, definitely had it less than 90 days.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 13, 2010)

Are you able to restore it in itunes?

does itunes bring it up as a device?


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 13, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Are you able to restore it in itunes?
> 
> does itunes bring it up as a device?


 
the computer doesn't register the phone is attached, i.e. I don't get windows asking what I want to do with the device, let alone itunes. I synced MrD's iphone earlier, so its not the computer :-(

not had chance to ring anyone or owt yet, will have to be tomorrow now


----------



## Sunray (Sep 14, 2010)

DIMPLES1 said:


> the computer doesn't register the phone is attached, i.e. I don't get windows asking what I want to do with the device, let alone itunes. I synced MrD's iphone earlier, so its not the computer :-(
> 
> not had chance to ring anyone or owt yet, will have to be tomorrow now



try plugging it into a different usb port.


----------



## OneStrike (Sep 14, 2010)

Dimples1, are you 100% sure that your phone hasn't been exposed to liquid?  your symptoms are the same as mine after trying all of the recommended actions, turns out i had got it wet somehow and fried it.  £140 down the pisser that was.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 14, 2010)

try this, it may or not work:

DFU mode and restore:.
INSTRUCTIONS
Step 1. Turn off iPhone

Step 2. Hold down the power and home button.

Step 3. When you see the Apple logo, release the power button but continue holding the home button down.

Step 4. Open iTunes and wait for it to tell you that it’s in restore mode.

Alternative Method: 

Step 1. Connect iPhone to USB then listen to the sound when it connect and disconnect.

Step 2. Hold the home and power buttons until hear the disconnect sound then release power button.

Step 3. Wait until you hear another sound then release home button.


That should get you done and back working.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 14, 2010)

DP


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Smurker said:


> Dimples1, are you 100% sure that your phone hasn't been exposed to liquid?  your symptoms are the same as mine after trying all of the recommended actions, turns out i had got it wet somehow and fried it.  £140 down the pisser that was.


 
99.9% sure, it was on the sofa, next to teh laptop & nothing was wet

0.1% chance of baby getting it wet without me noticing


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Structaural said:


> try this, it may or not work:
> 
> DFU mode and restore:.
> INSTRUCTIONS
> ...



Nope, still the same frozen screen.

I have used a different USB port.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Structaural said:


> try this, it may or not work:
> 
> 
> Alternative Method:
> ...



I can't hear anything, but I am partially deaf. Will let MrD have a go when he wakes up. I can also ring the apple number & CPW then too.

I've also made an appt at the Apple store in manchester on Thursday.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 14, 2010)

weird, sounds borked


----------



## Sunray (Sep 14, 2010)

Is the connector getting fully inserted?

One of the 1st things the apple guys will do after checking the moisture sensor is to clean out the connector with a pin. The socket does pick up pocket fluff and can prevent the connector from fully seating.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 14, 2010)

I've spoken to the Apple person. He got me to hold the home button when connecting to the computer, which did nowt. Then did the same thing with a new itunes, i.e. setting up from scrath under a new windowss account, which did nowt.

He was locating my nearest store when I said I already have an appointment for Thursday afternoon.

He said they should be able to restore it or replace it, on the spot if they have stock in.

*fingers crossed*

Thanks for everyone's help  *sobs*


----------



## Sunray (Sep 14, 2010)

Nothing to worry about, once its sync'd a new one will be like the old one.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 14, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Nothing to worry about, once its sync'd a new one will be like the old one.


 
Yeah, but I'm gonna lose some photo's & videos of the little un, I hadn't backed it up in over a few weeks, for a variety of reasons.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 14, 2010)

Monkey Island 2 is only 59p at the moment. Well worth it if you like that sort of thing


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 14, 2010)

I wouldn't bother with it if it was free tbh...


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 14, 2010)

> I hadn't backed it up in over a few weeks, for a variety of reasons.



A lesson for us all

iPhone and iPod touch: About backups


----------



## Badgers (Sep 15, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I wouldn't bother with it if it was free tbh...


 
I like it


----------



## Structaural (Sep 15, 2010)

Those folders are quite handy. I've got one called Crap on my last page, with Weather, Stocks, Youtube and GameCentre in it.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 15, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I wouldn't bother with it if it was free tbh...


Like your mum


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 15, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Like your mum


 
Heh back to school with the cusses yo!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 15, 2010)

dp


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 15, 2010)

How can I disable the voicemail on my iphone? I hate voicemail and I don't want it, switched it off on my old phone so surely it's possible on this one. Ideas please


----------



## Sunray (Sep 15, 2010)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> How can I disable the voicemail on my iphone? I hate voicemail and I don't want it, switched it off on my old phone so surely it's possible on this one. Ideas please


 
Surely the visual voice mail makes it a lot easier to use so its not so much of an issue?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 15, 2010)

*White iPhone 4's*

These are still unavailable.  Friend wants one and was suggesting that Apple are going to launch an aerial fixed version when they release it so doesn't want to buy one right now.

Its just a couple of bit of plastic so its puzzling its not available.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 16, 2010)

Structaural said:


> Those folders are quite handy. I've got one called Crap on my last page, with Weather, Stocks, Youtube and GameCentre in it.


 
Yup. GameCentre can piss off 

Downloaded an fee app called iStart Spanish from FAAD today. Not had a look yet.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 16, 2010)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> How can I disable the voicemail on my iphone? I hate voicemail and I don't want it, switched it off on my old phone so surely it's possible on this one. Ideas please


 
The results I got from googling your question (o2 forums)...



> If you want to switch of your voice mail dial 1760.
> Switching vouice mail back on you need to dial 1750.
> 
> If you want a miss call alert (So you receive a text to let you know that some one has tried to dial you and you didnt answer, you wernt in range, phone switched of or you was on another call then dial 1710 (Remember changing to miss call alert will automaticaly switch voice mail of.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> These are still unavailable.  Friend wants one and was suggesting that Apple are going to launch an aerial fixed version when they release it so doesn't want to buy one right now.
> 
> Its just a couple of bit of plastic so its puzzling its not available.


 
This is an interesting rumour...I wondered about this myself and I think it is not just the antenna that needs a rethink

My ip4 now has a small crack in the front glass, not dropped it and it was inside an Otterbox Defender case at all times (the most macho and ugly case on the market...
I'm taking it to a genius on saturday, we'll see what they say
I'm still loving its speed and camera etc etc but I think the design is a bit silly and impractical...

Oh and I highly recommend getting the larger memory size if you can afford it


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 16, 2010)

I read a few weeks back that the reason for the delay with the white iPhone for was they had problems with light leaking out in the wrong places...


----------



## DarthSydodyas (Sep 16, 2010)

Getting the IP4 tommorow.


----------



## Structaural (Sep 16, 2010)

Anyone else have this weird problem: 

When I type an SMS, often, when I press space I get a linebreak and it switches to caps. Really annoying (I do have double space set to fullstop and space, so it's not that).


----------



## grit (Sep 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> These are still unavailable.  Friend wants one and was suggesting that Apple are going to launch an aerial fixed version when they release it so doesn't want to buy one right now.
> 
> Its just a couple of bit of plastic so its puzzling its not available.


 
I dont think there is a "aerial fixed" version coming, apple's line is that there is no problem.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 16, 2010)

grit said:


> I dont think there is a "aerial fixed" version coming, apple's line is that there is no problem.



Err, I beg to differ, at some point I am getting a case to fix the problem.  They hired some rf engineers around the same time. 

I don't expect it, but Apple have surprised us in the past like this.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 16, 2010)

Am ready to cry now.

The guy in the Apple store did a different restore, on a Mac & uploaded a new version of software, 4.1 I think.

He said to remove itunes & all the the other stuff, quicktime etc off my computer. He said to google how to do it. Have done all that & restored. 

So how the fuck do I get my apps etc back on my phone?

The baby is trying to be all over the laptop, so not got much time to search the web etc.

*prays there is an easy solution & just being to thick/stressed to work it out*


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2010)

DIMPLES1 said:


> Am ready to cry now.
> 
> The guy in the Apple store did a different restore, on a Mac & uploaded a new version of software, 4.1 I think.
> 
> ...


You'll have to go into the app store and download them, one by one. It will remember if you bought them or not.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 16, 2010)

editor said:


> You'll have to go into the app store and download them, one by one. It will remember if you bought them or not.


 
Oh for fucks sake. Surely not. It already cost us £14 to get there today. Why didn't the guy instore tell us both that - went with MrD for babycare -I stated we both used the same itunes on the computer. . . .

Hang on - do you App Store, not Apple Store?

SORRY really hassled & stressed :-(


----------



## elbows (Sep 16, 2010)

The virtual online appstore, not the physical apple store.

Although to be honest Im not 100% sure it will download your apps again, but fingers crossed eh.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2010)

elbows said:


> The virtual online appstore, not the physical apple store.
> 
> Although to be honest Im not 100% sure it will download your apps again, but fingers crossed eh.


It should remember them all, although it takes a while to get them all back on your phone.  

I lost over £30's worth of apps when my iPhone bombed out, on account of Apple's fucking annoying insistence of me having two iTunes accounts (US/UK) just to get review apps.


----------



## elbows (Sep 16, 2010)

Yeah I just dida bit of research on this. So you have to remember allthe apps you had and then manually find them in the app store and then press buy and it will tell you you already bought it and can download it again for free? Wow thats a large pain in the bum if you have a lot of apps.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Sep 16, 2010)

editor said:


> It should remember them all, although it takes a while to get them all back on your phone.
> 
> I lost over £30's worth of apps when my iPhone bombed out, on account of Apple's fucking annoying insistence of me having two iTunes accounts (US/UK) just to get review apps.


 


Yay. Looks like its working. Baby swapped interest to the pen & paper I was using to write down the apps off MrD's phone, which made things a lot, lot easier too. 

Have realised I'm gonna have to start Angry Birds from scratch *holds back tears*

Thank you very much. 
& everyone else that helped


----------



## grit (Sep 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Err, I beg to differ, at some point I am getting a case to fix the problem.  They hired some rf engineers around the same time.
> 
> I don't expect it, but Apple have surprised us in the past like this.


 
I'm not saying there is not going to be another refresh of the iphone lineup! I cant see them producing essentially the same phone with a different aerial.


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 16, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> it was inside an Otterbox Defender case at all times...the most macho and ugly case on the market...
> I'm taking it to a genius on saturday, we'll see what they say


Good to know I'm not the only one using the otterbox defender as a daily case. I love it, particularly when Apple design purist go ape shit when they see it - plus I like having the option of dropping/throwing my phone should the need arise.:


----------



## Sunray (Sep 16, 2010)

grit said:


> I'm not saying there is not going to be another refresh of the iphone lineup! I cant see them producing essentially the same phone with a different aerial.


 
I just get this sneaking suspicion that they will start supplying them with a coating on the band....


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 16, 2010)

Kanda said:


> The results I got from googling your question (o2 forums)...


 
I did google but i'm on tmobile


----------



## Sunray (Sep 16, 2010)

elbows said:


> Yeah I just dida bit of research on this. So you have to remember allthe apps you had and then manually find them in the app store and then press buy and it will tell you you already bought it and can download it again for free? Wow thats a large pain in the bum if you have a lot of apps.


 
The iTunes will give you a list if you care to look.  Click Store->View My Account->Show Purchases and it will show you a list of everything you have downloaded ever in a paged format.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 16, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Surely the visual voice mail makes it a lot easier to use so its not so much of an issue?


 
Firstly, I'm not familiar with that feature but more importantly I don't want it. I used to miss lots of calls while rummagibng around in my bag for my phone, until I turned it off and people let it ring for longer so that I can get to it.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 16, 2010)

I suggest that you explore the feature as it makes it very easy to use.

Plus, you can ring your operator and get them to increase the time that it takes before it switches over to the voice mail.  I've got it set to the max of 30 seconds.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 17, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Good to know I'm not the only one using the otterbox defender as a daily case. I love it, particularly when Apple design purist go ape shit when they see it - plus I like having the option of dropping/throwing my phone should the need arise.:


 
How are the otterboxes? Im very tempted to get one as im clumsy as hell.....

do you get bubbles between the screen and the protector? Thats the one thing i hate


----------



## Badgers (Sep 17, 2010)

I am getting the Otter things for us month end. They are pretty cheap on Amazon, about £7.50 each delivered. 

Not read bad things


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 17, 2010)

otterbox defender cases are around 40 quid or something..the ones on amazon will be another model i guess

there are no bubbles between screen and protector...I like the case very much, I just wish my iphone hadn't got cracked inside it

hey maldwyn..yes it is fun when people see you have reduced the sleek ip4 into a boxy ugly lump 'o plastic..to be honest that is why I like it - feel less conspicuous when using it in public


----------



## sim667 (Sep 17, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> otterbox defender cases are around 40 quid or something..the ones on amazon will be another model i guess
> 
> there are no bubbles between screen and protector...I like the case very much, I just wish my iphone hadn't got cracked inside it
> 
> hey maldwyn..yes it is fun when people see you have reduced the sleek ip4 into a boxy ugly lump 'o plastic..to be honest that is why I like it - feel less conspicuous when using it in public


 
you phone got cracked inside it meaning the protection isnt up to much, or you cracked it before you put it in the otterbox?


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 17, 2010)

it got cracked inside the case..as detailed in my post above

I blame the design of ip4 more than the case though...there's only so much protection you can put in front of a glass computer screen before it becomes unusable

if anyone can point me to a more ugly and more protective case I'm all ears...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 17, 2010)

Weird, mine's only got a bumper on and I chuck it around like no one's business, and it's not got so much as a scratch.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 17, 2010)

sigh..

that does seem a little unfair..


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 18, 2010)

Well the iPhone genius decided my phone should not have cracked like that so he swapped it for a new one... Yay for applecare

For a whole two hours I kept it in a sleek bumper... But now its back in the fugly Otterbox....


----------



## Sunray (Sep 18, 2010)

I can't be doing with cases.  It looks shit in one, my Griffin Motif for iPhone 4, free courtesy of Apple arrive this morning and its naff.

Solves a problem I don't have.  Into the drawer to be forgotten.   I use Power Support Crystal Film things, 28 quid but very invisible.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 18, 2010)

It's the edges you want to be careful with. If it gets an impact on one of the edges, that's much more likely to break something than if it hits more flatly, because the pressure is higher. (Screen scratches being a separate issue.) All you really need IMO is something that buffers the sides of the phone, and really, the most important parts there are the corners.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 19, 2010)

I think the ip4 has an inherently weak design - those glass edges are vulnerable..my original iphone seems much tougher

am still happy with the phone..did my first video upload to twitter yesterday and can really see myself doing a lot of wifi uploading of videos when filming a tv series next year

I think it is noticeably faster with the new processor


----------



## Sunray (Sep 19, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> I think the ip4 has an inherently weak design - those glass edges are vulnerable..my original iphone seems much tougher
> 
> am still happy with the phone..did my first video upload to twitter yesterday and can really see myself doing a lot of wifi uploading of videos when filming a tv series next year
> 
> I think it is noticeably faster with the new processor


 
Its not designed for ruggedness, its designed for looks.  They rarely co-exist.

Check out rugged mobiles http://www.mphone.co.uk/rugged_tough_phone.html people like builders use.  I don't think any of those is going to win best looking phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> I think the ip4 has an inherently weak design - those glass edges are vulnerable..my original iphone seems much tougher
> 
> am still happy with the phone..did my first video upload to twitter yesterday and can really see myself doing a lot of wifi uploading of videos when filming a tv series next year
> 
> I think it is noticeably faster with the new processor


 
I used one side by side with my 3GS recently, have to say the speed increase wasn't that apparent. Good looking screen though and better battery life would be very nice.


----------



## pk (Sep 19, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Its not designed for ruggedness, its designed for looks.  They rarely co-exist.
> 
> Check out rugged mobiles http://www.mphone.co.uk/rugged_tough_phone.html people like builders use.  I don't think any of those is going to win best looking phone.


 
Seen this?? LOL


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2010)

Looks like Mr Jobs (if it was him) was in a veh bad mood last night.



> Steve Jobs: not what you'd call helpful to a trainee journalist
> The text of emails seen by the Guardian show the chief executive of Apple in profoundly unhelpful mood when a college student got no help from its PR department
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/sep/20/steve-jobs-emails-journalist-response


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Sep 20, 2010)

editor said:


> Looks like Mr Jobs (if it was him) was in a veh bad mood last night.


 
I'm torn on that, on the one hand the student clearly was lacking any investigative ability (everything the PR team will tell you is already on the web somewhere). While on the other hand the PR team at apple aren't particularly helpful and Jobs can be an arse.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Sep 20, 2010)

editor said:


> Looks like Mr Jobs (if it was him) was in a veh bad mood last night.


 
I'm torn on that, on the one hand the student clearly was lacking any investigative ability (everything the PR team will tell you is already on the web somewhere). While on the other hand the PR team at apple aren't particularly helpful and Jobs can be an arse.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 21, 2010)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I'm torn on that, on the one hand the student clearly was lacking any investigative ability (everything the PR team will tell you is already on the web somewhere). While on the other hand the PR team at apple aren't particularly helpful and Jobs can be an arse.


 
Some student wants answers from Apple for nothing other than personal gain.  I think you'd need to be more than a nobody to get answer from the Apple PR team who I expect get enough shit from the major newspapers and media outfits from all around the world.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 21, 2010)

My flatmate, who works across the road from the Covent Garden Apple shop, was wondering why there are 500 Indian and Arab people queued up out side the shop every morning.

It appears that all the contract free iPhones 4's in the shops are being sold to the rest of the world where they are sold for 400 quid more than the list price.  

Mate tried to buy one and was threatened and had to really stand his ground yesterday morning and still didn't get one.  70 quid for each phone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencet...ed-couldn-t-Apple-iPhone-4-Here-s-answer.html


----------



## maldwyn (Sep 21, 2010)

editor said:


> Looks like Mr Jobs (if it was him) was in a veh bad mood last night.


 
I'm not his biggest fan but thought he reaction was right, plus she sent her emails from a blackberrry ffs.


----------



## madamv (Sep 22, 2010)

Anyone around to tell me how to get contact from existing iphone onto new iphone 4?

Trying to do it in itunes and mobile me, but all they seem to be interested in is outlook?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 22, 2010)

Sync old iPhone. Plug in new iPhone. Restore from backup


----------



## madamv (Sep 23, 2010)

Thanks Crispy...  We did exactly that and got so into what was going on I forgot my manners...

You came to my rescue once again x


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 26, 2010)

now my ip4 is up and running I want to give my jailbroken iphone original to a friend

so I pressed Delete Everything...and now it is in a permanent cycle of rebooting between jailbreaky cydia's pineapple and the apple logo

Any ideas on how to get iTunes to recognise and restore it?

(It turns out I didnt have to jailbreak - could have got an unlock code from 02...)


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 26, 2010)

My old one's the same.

Repairer, apparently.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 26, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> now my ip4 is up and running I want to give my jailbroken iphone original to a friend
> 
> so I pressed Delete Everything...and now it is in a permanent cycle of rebooting between jailbreaky cydia's pineapple and the apple logo
> 
> ...


 
Can you just not restore it?

Or sync from a backup then restore it?


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 26, 2010)

thanks all..

iTunes does not recognise it..it is in a never ending reboot cycle


----------



## Sunray (Sep 26, 2010)

* Turn the device completely off and disconnect it from cable/dock.
        * Hold down the home button.
        * While holding down the home button connect to a computer with a cable (easiest) or dock.
        * Keep holding down the home button until you see a connect-to-iTunes screen You are now in recovery mode.

Then connect to the computer.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 27, 2010)

That won't work on mine. Home button is broken.

Not that I really need it anymore, anyway. I just feel bad binning it.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Sep 27, 2010)

thanks sunray - that worked sort of..my jailbroken phone had a picture of steve jobs with a russian speech bubble for a bit..

but now it is back to the endless reboot cycle...no apple logo..just a pineapple

does anyone have any other ideas? many thanks


----------



## sim667 (Sep 27, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> That won't work on mine. Home button is broken.
> 
> Not that I really need it anymore, anyway. I just feel bad binning it.


 
send it off to envirofone or someone


got £85 for mine, and the screen didnt even work


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 27, 2010)

Really? 

Oh, might do that, then.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 27, 2010)

http://www.o2recycle.co.uk/

Apple IPhone 3G S 32GB £232.50, that's where I'm going to sell my old one!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 27, 2010)

Kanda said:


> http://www.o2recycle.co.uk/
> 
> Apple IPhone 3G S 32GB £232.50, that's where I'm going to sell my old one!


 
Unsurprisingly the website is blocked at work 

do they take borked ones?


----------



## Kanda (Sep 27, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Unsurprisingly the website is blocked at work
> 
> do they take borked ones?


 
C&P From that page:



> Your device
> 
> Each device sold by you should match the make and model stated when registering your order and meets the following conditions:
> 
> ...


----------



## stupid dogbot (Sep 27, 2010)

Meh, £131 - 75% = not much.

Probably less than the effort to sort it out, which is why it's still under my bed.


----------



## pootle (Sep 27, 2010)

I've finished Angry Birds for now (another level coming soon) so what do people recommend to fill the gap in terms of brilliant yet simple and completely addictive games?


----------



## gabi (Sep 27, 2010)

Doom is good. Best port i've seen.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 27, 2010)

I've  been playing StarDunk, its so so simple and yet so so hard....


----------



## pootle (Sep 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Doom is good. Best port i've seen.


 
Port? What's that? Isn't Doom some sort of rpg?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 27, 2010)

pootle said:


> Port? What's that? Isn't Doom some sort of rpg?


 
Doom is a first person shooter.....

port : 'been ported' is taking software/game from one platform to another, in this instance PC/console to iphone


----------



## danski (Sep 27, 2010)

pootle said:


> I've finished Angry Birds for now (another level coming soon) so what do people recommend to fill the gap in terms of brilliant yet simple and completely addictive games?


 
Doodle Jump?


----------



## alan2001 (Sep 28, 2010)

pootle said:


> I've finished Angry Birds for now (another level coming soon) so what do people recommend to fill the gap in terms of brilliant yet simple and completely addictive games?


 
maybe Fragger? 

i've also just got Virtual City, which is very much like SimCity.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 29, 2010)

alan2001 said:


> maybe Fragger?
> 
> i've also just got Virtual City, which is very much like SimCity.


 
The "real" SimCity is available in the App Store.  So are Money Island 1 and 2, they were on special offer abut a week ago; 59p each so I snapped them up!


----------



## Badgers (Sep 29, 2010)

pootle said:


> I've finished Angry Birds for now (another level coming soon) so what do people recommend to fill the gap in terms of brilliant yet simple and completely addictive games?


 
Have you cleared EVERY level with three stars?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 29, 2010)

pootle said:


> I've finished Angry Birds for now (another level coming soon) so what do people recommend to fill the gap in terms of brilliant yet simple and completely addictive games?


 
Cat Physics.


----------



## g force (Sep 29, 2010)

Yes Cat Physics is great. Def worth a go.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 4, 2010)

I'm really enjoying the LJP..London Journey Planner app..basically a nifty front end for the tfl website thingy

it's cheap and works better for me than using the TFL website on my laptop, it seems to get regular updates and the dev listens to waht people want....he might be integrating borisbikes into the system soon which would be great (although there are plenty of standalone apps that do borisbikes it would be great to get it all in one app)

In fact it's becoming a theme for me - I enjoy using ip4 so much that I am firing up the laptop a LOT less


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> In fact it's becoming a theme for me - I enjoy using ip4 so much that I am firing up the laptop a LOT less



I noticed that since getting an iPhone something like 80% of all my Twitter and Facebook time is on it and not a computer...same for reading the news too...


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2010)

I find both Twitter and Facebook faster on my phone.


----------



## Me76 (Oct 4, 2010)

I definitely don't use the laptop as much since getting the phone.  No need to wait for it to fire up etc.  I only really use the laptop when I know I have things to do on documents.  Anything that is web only - phone it is.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 4, 2010)

I much prefer this forum on my MBP than my iP4.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 4, 2010)

and I prefer it on my ipad so ner


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2010)

Forget AntennaGate and make way for _Glassgate!_

http://gizmodo.com/5658352/iphone-4-design-flaw-could-lead-to-epidemic-of-cracked-iphones
http://gdgt.com/discuss/with-antennagate-over-is-glassgate-next-iphone-ani/


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 7, 2010)

Gizmodo, really?


----------



## Sunray (Oct 7, 2010)

I really like the current design, it be a shame to lose something quite as beautifully engineered.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Gizmodo, really?


 
Haha I thought that too, can't trust them on Apple...


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> Gizmodo, really?


Actually, the original article - which I linked to - was written by Ryan Block for gdgt.com. I guess you didn't bother reading it.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Actually, the original article - which I linked to - was written by Ryan Block for gdgt.com. I guess you didn't bother reading it.


I read both, the Gizmodo rehash was given priority in your links.

A poster on this thread had an issue with a cracked phone while housed in a Otterbox Defender case.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> I read both, the Gizmodo rehash was given priority in your links.


Err, and the first paragraph in the Gizmodo article credits Ryan Block and links to the article on gdgt.com.  I posted it first as it acted as a brief summary and didn't notice any glaring inaccuracies in their reporting, although I'm not a fan of the site.

Anyway, has anyone else noted third party cases disappearing from Apple stores, as Ryan claims? And could the inexplicably long delay for the white iPhone4 be linked to this?


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 8, 2010)

I didn't notice any third party cases on my last visit (mid Sept) and assumed it was because they were already giving iP4 owners an option of a free case - most third party. 

Are they now about to get millions of returned phones due to grit getting caught between the case and glass back? I just give my phone a quick wipe once a week.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2010)

I wonder if the iPhone 5 will continue with the glass back? It looks lovely but there's no question that it's more vulnerable than the 3GS.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> it be a shame to lose something quite as beautifully engineered.


 
I'd argue that the various issues it's faced suggest that while it's beautifully designed, it's engineering is rather poor


----------



## Kanda (Oct 8, 2010)

iPhone 4 cases were taken off the shelves during 'antennagate' as they were knocking them out for free.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2010)

Not sure how they can top the design of iP4 if they dump the glass back...Perhaps they should just move to some kind of clear plastic?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 8, 2010)

The design as it is now is ultimately pointless though. Yes, it looks fantastic, but I can't think of a single person I know that owns one that doesn't keep it in a case.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 8, 2010)

I don't keep it in a case.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 8, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd argue that the various issues it's faced suggest that while it's beautifully designed, it's engineering is rather poor



It works just fine and its in fine condition with no protection at all till the other day when I got film protectors for it. I've owned it nearly 4 months now.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 8, 2010)

Sunray said:


> I don't keep it in a case.



There's always bloody one


----------



## paolo (Oct 8, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There's always bloody one


 
Me neither.

And also plenty of naked ones at work too.


----------



## Me76 (Oct 9, 2010)

On  the games front - I have just downloaded Trainyard Express for free which is keeping me entertained.


----------



## spacemonkey (Oct 9, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Me neither.
> 
> And also plenty of naked ones at work too.


 
No case here either, hate them!


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2010)

According to this study the iPhone 4 has already proved to be 82 per cent 'more breakable' than the 3GS: http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/iphone4-glass-study


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 13, 2010)

> With just 4 months of data, it's clear that the iPhone 4 is significantly more prone to physical damage than its predecessor. The aluminosilicate glass seem to crack at least as often as the old glass, and there is now twice as much surface area to break.
> Despite this troubling increase, it's important to take the accident rate into perspective. Overall, the iPhone is still a very well constructed device, with a non-accident malfunction rate much lower than most other consumer electronics.


So is it 82% more breakable because there is twice the amount of glass?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Oct 13, 2010)

editor said:


> According to this study the iPhone 4 has already proved to be 82 per cent 'more breakable' than the 3GS: http://www.squaretrade.com/pages/iphone4-glass-study


 
Well, my last one lasted 26 months of heavy usage and chucking around, so by my reckoning, this one is 18% more likely to last at least that long.


----------



## hendo (Oct 13, 2010)

I did drop my iphone 4 onto stone flags the other day. It didn't break, it's a sturdy little number. No, it's water I'm most afraid of as far as the iphone goes.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Oct 13, 2010)

Ahh, water. The natural enemy of electronics.

I dropped mine the other day in a shopping centre. It bounced along and landed in front of a gaggle of pretty girls.

Nothing was damaged, except of course, my pride.


----------



## paolo (Oct 13, 2010)

4 drops so far. Each one a total wince moment, but thankfully all good.

I've just taken a close look. There's two barely visible 3mm scuffs where you can see that the point of impact has been both metal and glass. The lack of any visible damage is quite impressive. It could easily be sold 'As New'.

A far cry from those early iPod Nanos... remember them? They scratched each time you blinked.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 13, 2010)

I keep mine in a case, but I did my 3g, and I would any phone I paid a hefty amount of money for, regardless of design. I've dropped it onto concrete once, and the bumper case has a nice chunky scuff mark on one corner and a bit of a hairline crack as a result. Phone itself is as new.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2010)

Is this the smuggest face you've ever seen?







It's Stephen Fry telling people that he's holding, "the only white iPhone 4 currently in Europe”.

http://www.tipb.com/2010/10/14/stephen-fry-teases-white-iphone-4-t3-awards/


----------



## spitfire (Oct 15, 2010)

editor said:


> Err, and the first paragraph in the Gizmodo article credits Ryan Block and links to the article on gdgt.com.  I posted it first as it acted as a brief summary and didn't notice any glaring inaccuracies in their reporting, although I'm not a fan of the site.
> 
> Anyway, has anyone else noted third party cases disappearing from Apple stores, as Ryan claims? And could the inexplicably long delay for the white iPhone4 be linked to this?


 

I spend a large amount of time in Apple stores for work. I have been in 3 in the last week. There are just as many cases for the iPhone 4, 3rd party or otherwise, as there was before.

And no, i do not work for Apple. Them's the facts.

As an aside, i've dropped my iPhone 4 several times from some height onto concrete, wood, tiles etc. and had no problem at all (yet!).


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 15, 2010)

I'd like to buy an unlocked 3gs. Ebay is one option of course.. But does anyone know of any physical or online stores that sell these regularly?


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 15, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> I'd like to buy an unlocked 3gs. Ebay is one option of course.. But does anyone know of any physical or online stores that sell these regularly?


 
Apple themselves, but they only offer the 8GB version.  Why not get the 4?


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 15, 2010)

I've got a locked 4, thinking of getting an unlocked secondhand 3gs for when i am abroad...cheaper!


----------



## sim667 (Oct 15, 2010)

Piers Gibbon said:


> I've got a locked 4, thinking of getting an unlocked secondhand 3gs for when i am abroad...cheaper!


 
Just get you iphone 4 unlocked and change sims surely?

I dont know anywhere that sells unlocked 3gs's as a store...... but you tend to see them on the avforums classifieds quite a lot.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 15, 2010)

thanks

When I'm abroad I kind of have to leave my normal sim in the iphone so I can get calls on my normal number

But how easy is it to unlock an ip4 running the latest iOS?


----------



## Sunray (Oct 16, 2010)

Not sure that they are unlocking them at the moment to stop people buying them for resale in places where they are unavailable.  Check out they queues outside the Apple shops in the morning.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 16, 2010)

.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Oct 17, 2010)

Argh 
My email and internet keep freezing. Have tried rebooting it and turning it off and on again but it still happens regularly. Why is it doing this and do I need to restore it and if I do will I lose stuff that I've got on it?


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 17, 2010)

Have you tried switching to 'Airplane' mode and back again, it usually works for me.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Oct 17, 2010)

ah yes, that works. cheers


----------



## madamv (Oct 19, 2010)

Mr V is convinced we signed up to some site to help him transfer his contacts from his old iphone to his 4.    The only thing is, he remembers that the site will charge us £60 if we dont cancel the contract within 30 or 60 days.

I have absolutely no fucking idea what site it was....   Has anyone got ANY idea what it could have been?    Long shot I know....


----------



## Crispy (Oct 19, 2010)

I have no idea. All he has to do is sync his old phone wi iTunes then pug the new phone into the same computer...
Never heard of such a pay ssrvice though...


----------



## elbows (Oct 20, 2010)

Find it through your browsers history?


----------



## Winot (Oct 20, 2010)

madamv said:


> Mr V is convinced we signed up to some site to help him transfer his contacts from his old iphone to his 4.    The only thing is, he remembers that the site will charge us £60 if we dont cancel the contract within 30 or 60 days.
> 
> I have absolutely no fucking idea what site it was....   Has anyone got ANY idea what it could have been?    Long shot I know....



Apple's MobileMe ?


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 20, 2010)

I agree with Winot  it sounds like Mobilme's free trail, before charging your credit card.


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2010)

I'm liking the look of these metal backs for iPhone 4s....







Veh stylish.

http://www.unplggd.com/unplggd/how-to/add-a-metal-back-to-your-iphone-4-129754


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 20, 2010)

That's how the phones should have been made imho


----------



## stupid dogbot (Oct 20, 2010)

That's tidy, that.


----------



## electroplated (Oct 20, 2010)

mmm nice - are they for sale in the uk yet?

eta - just ordered one from hong kong, but they seem to be out of stock so not sure when it'll turn up


----------



## paolo (Oct 20, 2010)

Very nice looking.

Adds depth though, and I wonder if there's any effect on antennas? (Negative or positive  )


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2010)

On a related note, here's 'six of the best' iPhone cases:

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...-phones/iphone-4-cases-six-of-the-best-901607


----------



## madamv (Oct 20, 2010)

Thanks Winot it was mobile me...   I found an email, because I had posted a question on this thread on the same day, which Crispy answered...

Panic over!


----------



## elbows (Oct 28, 2010)

It seems increasingly likely that the white iPhone 4 isnt going to happen, its been pushed back to next spring which probably means that it wot be an iphone 4 at all, but rather an iphone 5.

The latest rumour as to why they failed to get the white iphone 4 working is that light leaks into the device and prevents the camera from working. Oops!


----------



## teuchter (Oct 28, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm liking the look of these metal backs for iPhone 4s....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I don't think the bevel is good. Does that mean it's thicker than a glass one?


----------



## Badgers (Oct 29, 2010)

Hmmm...

My 3GS has started freezing up. Has happened three times this week. Can't power it off, just have to leave it for 10-20 minutes and it reboots. Not ideal, I think it is now 10-11 months old. Will call O2 in a bit.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 29, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Hmmm...
> 
> My 3GS has started freezing up. Has happened three times this week. Can't power it off, just have to leave it for 10-20 minutes and it reboots. Not ideal, I think it is now 10-11 months old. Will call O2 in a bit.



Take it to the Apple shop, they will fix it/replace it.  Cut out the middle man.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 29, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Take it to the Apple shop, they will fix it/replace it.  Cut out the middle man.


 
Yeah? 

Will it matter if there is some light sign of small dropping?


----------



## sim667 (Oct 29, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Yeah?
> 
> Will it matter if there is some light sign of small dropping?


 
Is it cracked? or just a scratch?

The only thing they're really anal about are the water sensors iirc.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 29, 2010)

Nothing nasty looking. Will give them a try shortly, is it just the Oxford St one?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 29, 2010)

There's ones on Regent Street, Covent Garden, Brent Cross and White City (westfield)


----------



## paolo (Oct 30, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Yeah?
> 
> Will it matter if there is some light sign of small dropping?



FWIW:

My 2G got a crack in the glass plus a few 'bounce' marks on the metal. Sometime later the touch sensor failed. I got a replacement free of charge about 3 days after taking it in.

And this done by an O2 shop, even though the phone was bought at CPW.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 30, 2010)

Need to book an appointment at the apple shop on the Apple website.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2010)

If you want VLC for iPhone or the iPad, it seems you'll have to get it quick because it's about to ulled off the App Store, according to this site:
http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/ne...oper-claims-app-store-infringing-vlc-license/

http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010...t-papers-vlc-app-to-disappear-into-the-ether/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 31, 2010)

What's special about VLC?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 31, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's special about VLC?


 
It plays every video file that works at all, and even adds subtitles. It's far better than any other video playing app on the iWotsit platform.

Rémi Denis-Courmont sounds like a bit of a cock to be honest. This is why people hate open-source purists.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 1, 2010)

editor said:


> If you want VLC for iPhone or the iPad, it seems you'll have to get it quick because it's about to ulled off the App Store, according to this site:
> http://www.ilounge.com/index.php/ne...oper-claims-app-store-infringing-vlc-license/
> 
> http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2010...t-papers-vlc-app-to-disappear-into-the-ether/



Just got it, its still there


----------



## sim667 (Nov 1, 2010)

Oh yeah did anyone elses alarms on their phone go off an hour late?

I have my alarm set for 6.45, and the clock automagically update itself on my iphone on saturday night/sunday morning.....

then come this morning, the alarm went of at 7.45...... luckily i naturally woke up at 6.45 anyways so wasnt late for work.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Oh yeah did anyone elses alarms on their phone go off an hour late?
> 
> I have my alarm set for 6.45, and the clock automagically update itself on my iphone on saturday night/sunday morning.....
> 
> then come this morning, the alarm went of at 7.45...... luckily i naturally woke up at 6.45 anyways so wasnt late for work.



Yup, both of ours did today and it was confusing!!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Oh yeah did anyone elses alarms on their phone go off an hour late?
> 
> I have my alarm set for 6.45, and the clock automagically update itself on my iphone on saturday night/sunday morning.....
> 
> then come this morning, the alarm went of at 7.45...... luckily i naturally woke up at 6.45 anyways so wasnt late for work.



Mine didn't at all, bloody lucky I woke up naturally!


----------



## sim667 (Nov 1, 2010)

Im glad its not just me, my iphone 4 owning mates are saying im mad and refusing to believe me.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Im glad its not just me, my iphone 4 owning mates are saying im mad and refusing to believe me.


 
You are mad. 
Just mad and correct for a change


----------



## gabi (Nov 1, 2010)

this bug was first noticed a few weeks ago when New Zealand switched to summer time. a week later the aussies got it...

dunno if there's a fix, but its fucking annoying!


----------



## sim667 (Nov 1, 2010)

Badgers said:


> You are mad.
> Just mad and correct for a change


 


Im assuming that it should be ok now. I deleted all the alarms and set them up again.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Oh yeah did anyone elses alarms on their phone go off an hour late?
> 
> I have my alarm set for 6.45, and the clock automagically update itself on my iphone on saturday night/sunday morning.....
> 
> then come this morning, the alarm went of at 7.45...... luckily i naturally woke up at 6.45 anyways so wasnt late for work.



Yeah.

Thankfully, I was already up.


----------



## gabi (Nov 1, 2010)

http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/gadgets/4170853/Daylight-savings-glitch-for-iPhones


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 1, 2010)

My alarm went off an hour late too.


----------



## gabi (Nov 1, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Im assuming that it should be ok now. I deleted all the alarms and set them up again.


 
Nope. Like most people mine's set for 'weekdays' which now wont work. Bit of a pain in the ass.



> Update: Deleting and re-adding the alarms will NOT fix the issue. We've now tested a number of scenarios under iOS 4.1 for ourselves. The bug appears when using a repeating alarm for anything other than "every day." So for example, your alarm will go off an hour late if it's set for "weekdays," or "weekends," or every "Monday." The following alarms are not affected by the bug:
> •An alarm that doesn't repeat (repeat set to "never")
> •An alarm set to repeat "every day"
> You can test yourself by creating a repeating alarm (but not every day) to go off one minute in the future and 59 minutes in the past.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 1, 2010)

gabi said:


> Nope. Like most people mine's set for 'weekdays' which now wont work. Bit of a pain in the ass.


 
So i need to set an individual alarm for each day and remember to set it before bed each night?

what a pile of fucking ballhang.


----------



## gabi (Nov 1, 2010)

you can set it to 'every day' but just have to remember to unset it on the weekends i guess


----------



## gabi (Nov 1, 2010)

its also a bit shit that Apple have so far refused to acknowledge the problem since it first came to light in september.


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 1, 2010)

My wife's 3GS alarm was fine though. She's updated to iOS 4, but not sure if she's updated to 4.1


----------



## elbows (Nov 1, 2010)

If you want to use 'weekdays' repeat mode before Apple fix this bug, just set the alarm for an hour earlier!

Its pretty crappy that Apple didnt fix this or warn people given that they knew about the issue before it happened to us. People are now wondering if they will bother to fix it before clocks change in the USA.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 1, 2010)

Mine was fine but I'm still on IOS3.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 2, 2010)

Deleted alarms
Put alarms back on
Still not working
Will put them back an hour


----------



## Sunray (Nov 2, 2010)

Why do people use their iPhones as an alarm clock?  The fact that it doesn't work when its switched off means I wouldn't rely on it.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 2, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Why do people use their iPhones as an alarm clock?  The fact that it doesn't work when its switched off means I wouldn't rely on it.


 
It does.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 2, 2010)

Alarms aside... 

The UKParaPack app is reduced from £14.99 to £0.00 today. 



> With the consent of The Ambulance Services Association (ASA) and The Joint Colleges Ambulance Liason Committee (JRCALC). UKParaPack Ltd has used the latest UK Ambulance Service Clinical Practice Guidelines



That looks pretty damn good to me!!!


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 2, 2010)

sim667 said:


> It does.



Sort of. In standby.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 2, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Why do people use their iPhones as an alarm clock?  The fact that it doesn't work when its switched off means I wouldn't rely on it.


 
It does.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 2, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Sort of. In standby.


 
No. It just does, alarm works as normal when off. I dont really turn mine off ever tbh anyway.

On another note, the alarms i deleted yesterday are still going of today


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 2, 2010)

No, if you put it into sleep by pressing the top right button, then the alarm works.
If you hold that button down and then swipe the red slider to turn the phone off the alarm doesn't work.


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 2, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Alarms aside...
> 
> The UKParaPack app is reduced from £14.99 to £0.00 today.


 
Thanks for that.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 2, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> No, if you put it into sleep by pressing the top right button, then the alarm works.
> If you hold that button down and then swipe the red slider to turn the phone off the alarm doesn't work.


 
Mine used to on my 2g, I havent tried it since, but I'm very surprised if it doesnt.....

Just stick it into airplane if you dont want calls overnight..... If anyone calls me i just get really grumpy and tell them to fuck off, so everyones well aware calling me in the middle of the night is a baaaaad idea.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 2, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Alarms aside...
> 
> The UKParaPack app is reduced from £14.99 to £0.00 today.
> 
> ...


 
Downloaded it, no idea what ill ever do with it.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 2, 2010)

sim667 said:


> Downloaded it, no idea what ill ever do with it.


 
Wait till someone is dying and fire it up.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 2, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Wait till someone is dying and fire it up.


 
"Oh Hai, i think youz having a heart attack"

*Fires up app, "Do not use my location" etc etc

that type of thing?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 2, 2010)

sim667 said:


> "Oh Hai, i think youz having a heart attack"
> 
> *Fires up app, "Do not use my location" etc etc
> 
> that type of thing?


 
Heh that actually made me laugh out loud!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 2, 2010)

Any know of a good app for Google Analytics?


----------



## handyman121 (Nov 2, 2010)

Badgers said:


> Alarms aside...
> 
> The UKParaPack app is reduced from £14.99 to £0.00 today.


 
Still €19.99 here in France ?


----------



## elbows (Nov 2, 2010)

handyman121 said:


> Still €19.99 here in France ?


 
I think they changed the price again already, Ive got a uk account and its showing £14.99 now.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Nov 2, 2010)

Have you all got apps for alarms then? I tried an app which was rubbish so I've gone back to my alarm clock.


----------



## elbows (Nov 2, 2010)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Have you all got apps for alarms then? I tried an app which was rubbish so I've gone back to my alarm clock.


 
Alarms are built into the device via the Clock application.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Nov 2, 2010)

Ive never even looked at that...


----------



## Sunray (Nov 3, 2010)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Ive never even looked at that...


 
http://manuals.info.apple.com/en/iphone_user_guide.pdf


----------



## Badgers (Nov 3, 2010)

Have the 'alarm clock night stand' as well which is working fine.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2010)

Is there a fix for this? My bloody alarm is going off an hour after the time it's set for...


----------



## Crispy (Nov 3, 2010)

Set your alarm an hour early.


----------



## gabi (Nov 3, 2010)

just set it back one hour. that worked this morning for me. no fix as yet.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 3, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Set your alarm an hour early.


 
That's a _pathetic_ fix, though.

Apple haven't even acknowledged this, have they?


----------



## gabi (Nov 3, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> That's a _pathetic_ fix, though.
> 
> Apple haven't even acknowledged this, have they?


 
yeh they kinda did. didnt offer a solution, but did acknowledge it.

the US switches this weekend tho so i assume they'll fix by then.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 3, 2010)

Really?

Cos all the news reports say "Apple spokespersons were not available for comment" or similar, and I can't see anything on the Apple site...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> That's a _pathetic_ fix, though.
> 
> Apple haven't even acknowledged this, have they?


 
It's what I've been doing but yeah it is a stupid thing to have to do, Apple should just fix it.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 3, 2010)

I've been setting a non-repeating alarm every morning. Seems to work.

But still, complete shit.

They more popular they get, the more they fuck up...


----------



## elbows (Nov 3, 2010)

Apple have never been beyond these sorts of mistakes, its just the more popular they get the more people there are to notice.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 3, 2010)

Was more of a throwaway whinge than an actual serious comment, but even so... this is really, really poor.

If it was MS, they'd have patched it by now...


----------



## gabi (Nov 3, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Really?
> 
> Cos all the news reports say "Apple spokespersons were not available for comment" or similar, and I can't see anything on the Apple site...


 
yeh i dunno where exactly they made this acknowledgement, but apparently they did..

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/nov/01/iphone-dst-alarm-bug-europe

apple are shitbags.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 3, 2010)

> Apple has been contacted but hadn't responded to me at the time of writing.


----------



## gabi (Nov 3, 2010)

at the top of the article...



> owing to a bug acknowledged by Apple more than three weeks ago when it affected users in Australia and New Zealand (where Daylight Saving began, of course, three weeks ago).


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2010)

gabi said:


> yeh i dunno where exactly they made this acknowledgement, but apparently they did..
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/blog/2010/nov/01/iphone-dst-alarm-bug-europe
> 
> apple are shitbags.


I'm sure Steve Jobs will be along soon to tell you that it's your fault because you're actually working the wrong hours.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Was more of a throwaway whinge than an actual serious comment, but even so... this is really, really poor.
> 
> If it was MS, they'd have patched it by now...


 
Well Steve Jobs stood up in public and said he loved you and that your user experience is what drives Apple. I reckon he owes you big time...


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well Steve Jobs stood up in public and said he loved you and that your user experience is what drives Apple. I reckon he owes you big time...


He's surely got a lot of love to share. And money too, although he doesn't seem so keen on sharing that.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2010)

editor said:


> He's surely got a lot of love to share. And money too, although he doesn't seem so keen on sharing that.


 
You know many billionaires that do? Bill Gates aside.


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You know many billionaires that do? Bill Gates aside.


Not personally, but here's 25 to start off with: http://online.barrons.com/article/SB125935466529866955.html#articleTabs_panel_article=1

Interesting piece here: http://www.cultofmac.com/does-steve-jobs-care-about-global-poverty


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 3, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well Steve Jobs stood up in public and said he loved you and that your user experience is what drives Apple. I reckon he owes you big time...


 
Ewww.



I'll settle for a working repeat alarm clock.

Although, the settings reset some people advised DOES seem to have caused the battery issue (lasting only 8hrs on standby!!!) that seemed to be setting in on my 3 month old phone to go away...

So, small mercies.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 3, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Was more of a throwaway whinge than an actual serious comment, but even so... this is really, really poor.
> 
> If it was MS, they'd have patched it by now...


 
Yeah right, they have taken weeks to fix known critical security exploits on Windows.   One where if you browse to a web site it can take control of your machine.

An alarm bug?  Your on another planet


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 3, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Yeah right, they have taken weeks to fix known critical security exploits on Windows.   One where if you browse to a web site it can take control of your machine.
> 
> An alarm bug?  Your on another planet


 
Can you not relate the first sentence to the second, or something? Or are you just so snobbily superior you have to sneer down at _everything_?

Prick.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 3, 2010)

OK since the new 4.x software release my 3G iphone has been running like a dog.  Have Apple got any plans to rectify borking 3G phones, if not I shall not touch their products with a shitty stick again.


----------



## elbows (Nov 3, 2010)

Fingers said:


> OK since the new 4.x software release my 3G iphone has been running like a dog.  Have Apple got any plans to rectify borking 3G phones, if not I shall not touch their products with a shitty stick again.


 
Performance is poor on the 3G with newer software. People moaned when iOS 4 first came out, Apple/Jobs made some quiet noises about making it better, a later update made it faster again in some places but in other areas it is still painfully slow. My guess would be that they arent going to do anything more to rectify this, indeed whilst I dont think they have deliberately made it slow on the old handsets, they probably dont care that much and figure it will encourage people to get a newer model. You never know though, version 4.2 will be out fairly soon but I really am not expecting any improvement from it but could get lucky I suppose.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2010)

elbows said:


> Performance is poor on the 3G with newer software. People moaned when iOS 4 first came out, Apple/Jobs made some quiet noises about making it better, a later update made it faster again in some places but in other areas it is still painfully slow. My guess would be that they arent going to do anything more to rectify this, indeed whilst I dont think they have deliberately made it slow on the old handsets, they probably dont care that much and figure it will encourage people to get a newer model. You never know though, version 4.2 will be out fairly soon but I really am not expecting any improvement from it but could get lucky I suppose.


The inevitable daft class action suit has started up in the states over this, with a Biana Wofford "accusing Apple of using the iOS 4 upgrade to maliciously cripple the iPhone 3G, boosting sales of the iPhone 4."



> Even though Apple has actual knowledge of thousands of complaints from iPhone 3G/3GS consumers, Apple does not allow for those same users/consumers of third generation devices to download and re-install earlier and optimized iOS3.x operating system without resorting to 'hacker' tactics that will void Apple warranties and violate iPhone user agreements



http://gizmodo.com/5680981/iphone-3g-brickgate-lawsuit-makes-one-very-good-point


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2010)

The Skyfire web browser has been allowed into the App Store. It sort of lets you play Flash courtesy of routing requests through their own servers and transcoding Flash to iOS-friendly H.264 on the fly.

Apparently Flash games don't work which rather takes the shine off the thing.

http://www.tipb.com/2010/11/03/skyfire-web-browser-day-early/


----------



## paolo (Nov 4, 2010)

I'm not sure iPhone owners give much of a shit about Flash games, tbf.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> I'm not sure iPhone owners give much of a shit about Flash games, tbf.


You're sure doing a lot of assumin' for an awful lot of people there, squire.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 4, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> I'm not sure iPhone owners give much of a shit about Flash games, tbf.


 
Yep, plenty of people who aren't techy geeks like us really don't give a shit about this stuff...


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, plenty of people who aren't techy geeks like us really don't give a shit about this stuff...


And they're precisely the sort of people who would love to play Flash games on their phones. Think: Facebook games.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 4, 2010)

editor said:


> And they're precisely the sort of people who would love to play Flash games on their phones. Think: Facebook games.


 
They don't care about doing that on their mobile and if they did: think>> apps


----------



## Sunray (Nov 4, 2010)

Its going to be a while before a phone can run full flash to play a decent game on a phone.  1Ghz low power cpu's are fast but not really up to the job that I've seen.  

The new dual core ARM models might be better.

What people are also forgetting is the interface mapping and that isn't trivial.  Many flash games require a keyboard that many new phones don't have and full Flash was never designed for mobile so developers are assuming what its running on has all these interface options.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 4, 2010)

editor said:


> The Skyfire web browser has been allowed into the App Store. It sort of lets you play Flash courtesy of routing requests through their own servers and transcoding Flash to iOS-friendly H.264 on the fly.
> 
> Apparently Flash games don't work which rather takes the shine off the thing.
> 
> http://www.tipb.com/2010/11/03/skyfire-web-browser-day-early/


It's not available any more.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 4, 2010)

Pulled by the developers - it was too popular and overloaded their transcoding backend


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Pulled by the developers - it was too popular and overloaded their transcoding backend


That'll be all those people wanting Flash on their iPhones!


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 4, 2010)

There is another browser that allows you to play Flash using the same technique, but it's only available in the US App Store.  I don't recall what it's called.

There's also Frash, but that won't play videos, and needs a jailbroken phone.


----------



## electroplated (Nov 4, 2010)

Sunray said:


> What people are also forgetting is the interface mapping and that isn't trivial.  Many flash games require a keyboard that many new phones don't have and full Flash was never designed for mobile so developers are assuming what its running on has all these interface options.


 
This is a very very important point, for any touchscreen device (iphone, other smartphone, kiosk, whatever) - flash games make heavy use of code along the lines of: onRollOver, onRollOut type actions of the mouse, which simply doesn't translate to touchscreens without some extra development work when building the game.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2010)

The Guardian has started charging loads more for its iPhone app: £2.99 for six months or £3.99 for an annual subscription.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/04/guardian-iphone-app


----------



## ChrisFilter (Nov 4, 2010)

editor said:


> Apparently Flash games don't work which rather takes the shine off the thing.



I never found a flash game that worked on Android, tbf.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 4, 2010)

editor said:


> The Guardian has started charging loads more for its iPhone app: £2.99 for six months or £3.99 for an annual subscription.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/04/guardian-iphone-app


 
I am not so sure that is a large amount of money for a year. does it let you download the lot before you go out like the Indie and the Daily Heil apps?


----------



## Fingers (Nov 4, 2010)

by the way, the newly released daily heil app as pretty awesome, shame about the content though


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 4, 2010)

editor said:


> The Guardian has started charging loads more for its iPhone app: £2.99 for six months or £3.99 for an annual subscription.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/04/guardian-iphone-app


 
Hmmm not sure I'll be doing that...


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2010)

ChrisFilter said:


> I never found a flash game that worked on Android, tbf.


That'll be because you were running Android 2.1. There's _hundreds_ of games that work just fine - e.g. http://m.kongregate.com/


----------



## handyman121 (Nov 4, 2010)

editor said:


> The Guardian has started charging loads more for its iPhone app: £2.99 for six months or £3.99 for an annual subscription.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/04/guardian-iphone-app


 
Just use the browser and go to     http://m.guardian.co.uk   its free.


----------



## Badgers (Nov 4, 2010)

Just found a sausage recipe app for 59p but no reviews. Not sure about it yet but maybe after a couple more ciders. Review to follow.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 4, 2010)

Eh?  Surely just use BigOven which is free and has millions of sausage recipes.


----------



## Me76 (Nov 6, 2010)

Loving the latest update on tapatalk which shows me who is online and also takes me to my first unread post in threads I have been on before.


----------



## Leafster (Nov 7, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Is there a fix for this? My bloody alarm is going off an hour after the time it's set for...


 


Crispy said:


> Set your alarm an hour early.


 


gabi said:


> just set it back one hour. that worked this morning for me. no fix as yet.


I don't often use the alarm on my phone but I had to get up at 4:00 this morning so I tested it yesterday and yes, in order to get it to work properly I had to set it an hour early. This morning, it went off at the correct time of three o'clock!


----------



## dlx1 (Nov 7, 2010)

daily mail launching iPhone app if anyone interested


----------



## cybertect (Nov 7, 2010)

Fingers said:


> I am not so sure that is a large amount of money for a year. does it let you download the lot before you go out like the Indie and the Daily Heil apps?


 
Apparently it does. Well, you can pick the sections you want to download, so I suppose you could grab the lot.


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 8, 2010)

So after the alarm fiasco I went to Paris at the weekend and on my return, despite the world clock telling me it's the correct time in London, my iphone is staying resolutely on Paris time. Now at least my alarm goes off at the correct time in the morning, but the clock is an hour in the future. Did I mention I went to Paris?


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 8, 2010)

I've fixed that now by switching 'Set date and time automatically' off and on again. Bet my alarm is wrong again now though.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2010)

You can get two alarm clocks for just 99p from the 99p store if you want to get an alarm back up while Apple are sorting it out. I'm sure there'll be a class action suit starting up in the States soon, where someone will try and sue them for $789m for missing a plane or something.


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 8, 2010)

I have a 5 year old and a 3 year old as backup alarm clocks.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> I have a 5 year old and a 3 year old as backup alarm clocks.


Don't they go off at times even more unpredictable than the iPhone?


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 8, 2010)

editor said:


> Don't they go off at times even more unpredictable than the iPhone?



Yes, but it's always before my iPhone alarm.


----------



## elbows (Nov 9, 2010)

elbows said:


> You never know though, version 4.2 will be out fairly soon but I really am not expecting any improvement from it but could get lucky I suppose.


 
There is now a rumour that iOS 4.2 does improve performance somewhat on 3G devices.

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/11/08/ios-4-2-to-bring-more-performance-improvements-to-iphone-3g/


----------



## kittyP (Nov 10, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> I've fixed that now by switching 'Set date and time automatically' off and on again. Bet my alarm is wrong again now though.


 
I did this and it fixed the alarm in the pm but it was still going off an hour late in the am, which is when you generally bloody need it.

However, this morning it went off at 4am, which is what I had set it too to go off at 5....
Any one know if it's fixed over all or just a one off?


----------



## Sunray (Nov 11, 2010)

Version 4.2 of iOS is due out this month which I expect will fix it and probably why Apple haven't issued small fix.


----------



## elbows (Nov 11, 2010)

4.2 seems very close to release now.


----------



## Me76 (Nov 12, 2010)

I have a really basic/stupid question. How do I get photos from my iPhone on to my computer?


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 12, 2010)

Me76 said:


> I have a really basic/stupid question. How do I get photos from my iPhone on to my computer?


 
Just go into your phone from "My Computer" and they are all  there.


----------



## Me76 (Nov 12, 2010)

Thank you. And also for not taking the piss. 
I have been trying from ITunes. Doh!


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 12, 2010)

I think you can do it through iTunes as well, but I've always found it easier to use My Computer.


----------



## electroplated (Nov 18, 2010)

Iphone to get hardware keyboard via a nifty add-on
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





http://www.reghardware.com/2010/11/18/boxwave_keyboard_buddy_iphone_4/


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2010)

Could Apple's control freakery be going too far for European carriers?



> European Carriers Not Happy about Apple’s Proposed Built-In SIM
> 
> European carriers are reportedly warning Apple that if Apple goes ahead with plans for custom, built-in SIM cards for future generations of the iPhone. the carriers may refuse to subsidise the iPhone altogether.
> 
> ...


----------



## paolo (Nov 20, 2010)

I'm not sure I understand.

You get the phone, and then what? It's locked to the first carrier you use? Forever, or to the end of a contract? Rolling monthly deals are or are not possible?


----------



## paolo (Nov 20, 2010)

Ok, have now found this on the FT site:

"Closer to the operators’ hearts, it could allow customers to switch more easily from one to another or insist on shorter-term contracts."

That's excellent. The sooner the better.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2010)

You want Apple to dictate terms on what networks you can use? Again.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 20, 2010)

electroplated said:


> Iphone to get hardware keyboard via a nifty add-on
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Don't see the point, it adds too much bulk and if having a hardware keyboard is that important getting an iPhone isn't very clever.


----------



## paolo (Nov 20, 2010)

editor said:


> You want Apple to dictate terms on what networks you can use? Again.


 
You'd like not to be able to move between networks more freely?

To be honest, until we know what this actually means, who knows whether it's good or bad for consumers. It's not like carriers are saints. Vodafone, for example, are pretty good at control freakery when it comes to paying tax.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 20, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> You'd like not to be able to move between networks more freely?
> 
> To be honest, until we know what this actually means, who knows whether it's good or bad for consumers. It's not like carriers are saints. Vodafone, for example, are pretty good at control freakery when it comes to paying tax.


 
Well said.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 20, 2010)

I read they were going to embed a generic SIM, although where I read that I can't remember.  It was discussing the latest SIM tech rather than Apple iPhone 5, with regard to the ability to program the carrier into a SIM and therefore the actual electronics could be embedded and set up by Apple/Operator at the point of purchase?

This makes perfect sense to me.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 20, 2010)

Eventually, the operator-subsidised and network tied phone model will be history I think. You aren't tied to a data service when you buy a computer so why should you be when you buy a pocket computer? What I really want to see is a universal data bill - landline, wifi, cellular. All in the same service plan, agnostic of device.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Eventually, the operator-subsidised and network tied phone model will be history I think.


I don't think so.  How many people would by an iPhone if they had to pay the full price up front?


----------



## paolo (Nov 20, 2010)

Aren't there already providers that offer all media? (Your point probably isn't simply that)


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 20, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> I don't think so.  How many people would by an iPhone if they had to pay the full price up front?


 
I did, and it was a very good move, too - I've saved several hundred quid. Subsidised phones are really just a finance plan organised by the phone company and usually not to the consumer's benefit at all. All that you need is another type of finance plan.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 20, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I did, and it was a very good move, too - I've saved several hundred quid. Subsidised phones are really just a finance plan organised by the phone company and usually not to the consumer's benefit at all. All that you need is another type of finance plan.


 
So did I, but only because I didn't want a contract and hardly make any calls.  Most people balk at the £500 cost for a SIM free iPhone and prefer to pay the much cheaper price they can get it for if they take out a contract......even if it means paying more in the long run.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Eventually, the operator-subsidised and network tied phone model will be history I think. You aren't tied to a data service when you buy a computer so why should you be when you buy a pocket computer? What I really want to see is a universal data bill - landline, wifi, cellular. All in the same service plan, agnostic of device.


 
Yeah that and xbox owners being able to play with PS3 gamers online too would be nice.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Nov 20, 2010)

Help.  The power on MrD's iphone has just gone & it won't turn back & it doesn't look like its charging. I've plugged it onto the computer with itunes open, but as there's no power it isn't registering. He didn't get the 20% or 10% battery warnings, it seems to have just gone.  Any ideas, please folks???

NO WORRIES - got it working. MrD's panic is over


----------



## Crispy (Nov 20, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> I don't think so.  How many people would by an iPhone if they had to pay the full price up front?


 
See fridge's post - the minimum monthly contract is really a repayment plan for the phone. The actual cost of providing the service is quite a bit lower.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 20, 2010)

Crispy said:


> See fridge's post - the minimum monthly contract is really a repayment plan for the phone. The actual cost of providing the service is quite a bit lower.


 
See my previous post.

BTW does anyone know WTF they've removed info for Southeastern services to/from St. Pancras International from the National Rail Enquires app in the latest update?  This is very annoying since I use these services.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 21, 2010)

Yeah, but the point is that the network's credit is at a crappy rate.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 21, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Yeah, but the point is that the network's credit is at a crappy rate.


 
Lots of people obviously don't care about that, otherwise they'd all be buying their phones SIM free at full price.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 21, 2010)

Bungle73 said:


> So did I, but only because I didn't want a contract and hardly make any calls.  Most people balk at the £500 cost for a SIM free iPhone and prefer to pay the much cheaper price they can get it for if they take out a contract......even if it means paying more in the long run.


 
You're just restating the same point though.

People balk at the cost, and they can get a crap finance plan on the contract, so they go to that so they don't have to put up so much money up front. So all you have to do if you want to offer a phone off contract is to offer them another type of finance plan for their phone.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 21, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I did, and it was a very good move, too - I've saved several hundred quid. Subsidised phones are really just a finance plan organised by the phone company and usually not to the consumer's benefit at all. All that you need is another type of finance plan.


 
I've found the opposite to be true away from the iphone. Look at the cost of something like a Desire HD unlocked, then cost of contracts with it and the sim only ones.

Phone works out to be about £200 to £250 by buying through a contract I worked out.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 21, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You're just restating the same point though.
> 
> People balk at the cost, and they can get a crap finance plan on the contract, so they go to that so they don't have to put up so much money up front. So all you have to do if you want to offer a phone off contract is to offer them another type of finance plan for their phone.


 
and - crucially, sign a seperate agreement for network services,


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 21, 2010)

Well, that's part of the difference in the finance plans; it divorces the financing aspect from the service aspect, though network operators would be free to offer their own deals I presume involving both.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2010)

Looks like Apple's plans have been well and truly scuppered (although iPads may get the new SIM).



> The Sunday Telegraph understands that Apple has given up on its plan to bypass operators after they warned that they would refuse to continue subsidising the cost of the expensive phones. At present mobile operators pay Apple the full £375 cost of the phone, which they pass on to consumers for free if they sign up for 24-month contracts.
> Apple had wanted to exclude operators, such as Vodafone and O2, from the sale process in order to build a more direct relationship with customers. The Californian technology giant had been working on plans to create an integrated SIM card so that consumers could buy the phone without having to sign up to operators' long-term contracts.
> A senior source at a mobile operator said: "Apple has long been trying to build closer and closer relationships and cut out the operators. But this time they have been sent back to the drawing board with their tails between their legs."
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...898/Apples-iPhone-SIM-card-plan-thwarted.html


----------



## paolo (Nov 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Looks like Apple's plans have been well and truly scuppered (although iPads may get the new SIM).


 
The operators win.

Do consumers? I guess we'll never know. For now, the existing model remains unchanged.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> The operators win.
> 
> Do consumers? I guess we'll never know. For now, the existing model remains unchanged.


I'm not sure, but one thing I am pretty sure about: if their track record is anything to go by, Apple definitely weren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts in a selfless quest to provide greater choice and freedom for consumers.


----------



## paolo (Nov 22, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm not sure, but one thing I am pretty sure about: if their track record is anything to go by, Apple definitely weren't doing this out of the goodness of their hearts in a selfless quest to provide greater choice and freedom for consumers.


 
And the operators motives?


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> And the operators motives?


Do you want the phone manufacturer to dictate which network you can connect to Y/N?

I don't like any of the networks much, but at least I can choose which one I go with - and there's competition between them.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2010)

Interesting piece:



> The GSMA is to create a new standard for manufacturers who don't want their products sullied by an operator's SIM, taking Apple a step closer to world domination.
> 
> Not that Apple is a member of the new Task Force which will be defining the standard for software SIMs, but the hand of Steve Jobs is clearly visible among the promises for greater flexibility and additional functionality that doing away with the removable SIM is supposed to provide....
> 
> ...


----------



## paolo (Nov 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Do you want the phone manufacturer to dictate which network you can connect to Y/N?
> 
> I don't like any of the networks much, but at least I can choose which one I go with - and there's competition between them.


 
What I'd like to see is the breaking of the tie between operators and handset ownership.

Manufacturers should be able to compete directly with each other, without any influence from operators.

Operators should compete with each other on the basis of being a supplier of a commodity service.

Consumers should be able to switch operators without changing handset.

They should be able to switch handsets without being disadvantaged by their operator.

I don't care who instigates this shift in market behaviour. It could be a handset manufacturer, an operator, or pixies. I've no axe to grind.


----------



## paolo (Nov 22, 2010)

The GSMA taskforce for the new SIM include:

AT&T, China Mobile, Deutsche Telekom, France Telecom Orange, KT, NTT DOCOMO, SK Telecom, Telecom Italia, Telefónica, Verizon Wireless and Vodafone.

Being controlled "by the hand of Steve Jobs"?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 22, 2010)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...898/Apples-iPhone-SIM-card-plan-thwarted.html

Apple's custom iphone SIM plans canceled.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2010)

Crispy said:


> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...898/Apples-iPhone-SIM-card-plan-thwarted.html
> 
> Apple's custom iphone SIM plans canceled.


*coughs loudly and points back up the page.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 22, 2010)

oops!


----------



## Sunray (Nov 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Interesting piece:


 
That was the bit I mentioned before. On the face of that, it does nothing to the Phone/Operator contract.  Just moving away from physical SIM's which I think are a bit old tech.


----------



## paolo (Nov 22, 2010)

Sunray said:


> That was the bit I mentioned before. On the face of that, it does nothing to the Phone/Operator contract.  Just moving away from physical SIM's which I think are a bit old tech.


 
It would make switching easier for some customers.

If you want to switch supplier of other services (energy etc) you can do it all online. No special supplier widget needed.


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2010)

There's some good comment on the Engadget site:





> I don't know exactly the situation in the US, but there's a vast amount more competition in the phone markets in Europe. I can choose any one of six or seven carriers and get good coverage across 98% of the country.
> 
> In other words - the carriers aren't a problem here. Switching carriers is easy, as is porting your number. Thus, giving Apple another level of control (in this case between consumer and carrier) can only a bad thing for the consumer.



http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/22/apple-reportedly-abandons-supposed-push-for-integrated-sims-in-t/


----------



## paolo (Nov 22, 2010)

Whereas the FT said:

"Closer to the operators’ hearts, it could allow customers to switch more easily from one to another or insist on shorter-term contracts."


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2010)

I don't see how an integrated SIM would have changed much in the UK. Anyone can already buy an unlocked iPhone and use which ever carrier and contract they wish.


----------



## paolo (Nov 22, 2010)

Let's paint a picture further into the future.

You not only have no contract, you have no specific operator. At the point of dialling, your phone interrogates the available operators, and places the call according to your criteria. Which may simply be 'cheapest'.

The operators do not want to move a single inch towards this type of idea. It would reduce them to being commodity suppliers and compress margins dramatically.

One may dismiss the idea of such functionality as far-fetched, but it's not been too far-fetched for Google to patent it.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 22, 2010)

Version 4.2 is now available, just updating my phone now.

Supposedly a little quicker for 3G owners.  I think this is really more for the iPad.


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 23, 2010)

A bit mean of them not to extend the free version of findmybloodymobile to all users, and what's to stop some ne'er-do-well from switching it off in settings anyway?

I generally always use passcode, remote lock really isn't a substitute - but perhaps now I can have it on 4 hour delay rather than my usual 15 mins.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 23, 2010)

paolo999 said:


> Let's paint a picture further into the future.
> 
> You not only have no contract, you have no specific operator. At the point of dialling, your phone interrogates the available operators, and places the call according to your criteria. Which may simply be 'cheapest'.
> 
> ...


 
That sounds a good idea...I've been envious of the Chinese with their duel sim phones for a while. I'd like to have a couple of pay as you go accounts for when I'm in remote places and can't get reception with who my contract is with.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 23, 2010)

Sunray said:


> Version 4.2 is now available, just updating my phone now.
> 
> Supposedly a little quicker for 3G owners.  I think this is really more for the iPad.



Apart, of course, from the extra text tones, AirPrint/AirPlay (woo hoo!  ) and the phone finder.

Well, I was excited.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 23, 2010)

I am tempted to pick up an old airport express now.


----------



## Winot (Nov 23, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Apart, of course, from the extra text tones, AirPrint/AirPlay (woo hoo!  ) and the phone finder.
> 
> Well, I was excited.


 
I'd like extra e-mail alert tones please.


----------



## Me76 (Nov 23, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Apart, of course, from the extra text tones, AirPrint/AirPlay (woo hoo!  ) and the phone finder.
> 
> Well, I was excited.


 
What do these things do please?  Apart from text tones - I think I know that one.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 23, 2010)

Airplay is to stream to/from AppleTV, Print the same with WiFi printing, phone finder plots your iphone's location on a map.

http://www.apple.com/ios/


----------



## stupid dogbot (Nov 23, 2010)

Winot said:


> I'd like extra e-mail alert tones please.


 
I'll get right on that...


----------



## Me76 (Nov 23, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> Airplay is to stream to/from AppleTV, Print the same with WiFi printing, phone finder plots your iphone's location on a map.
> 
> http://www.apple.com/ios/


 
Thanks.  Once I work out why the hell my iTunes isn't opening I shall be updating


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 23, 2010)

Follow the steps below to set up the free Find My iPhone feature.

And download the App too.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 23, 2010)

I'm glad that I can finally search within a page in Safari. (Done via the Google box in a bit of counter-intuitivity)


----------



## Sunray (Nov 23, 2010)

maldwyn said:


> A bit mean of them not to extend the free version of findmybloodymobile to all users, and what's to stop some ne'er-do-well from switching it off in settings anyway?
> 
> I generally always use passcode, remote lock really isn't a substitute - but perhaps now I can have it on 4 hour delay rather than my usual 15 mins.


 
You need to go into your mobile me account to switch it off, so that would require them to know your Apple ID or MobileMe password.


----------



## maldwyn (Nov 23, 2010)

Sunray said:


> You need to go into your mobile me account to switch it off, so that would require them to know your Apple ID or MobileMe password.


 
It's possible to switch off MobileMe via Settings - Mail,Contacts,Calendars - accounts - MobileMe - Find My iPhone toggle to off postion.

Just tried it and it definitely works


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 2, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I don't think the bevel is good. Does that mean it's thicker than a glass one?


I recently got a couple of these full metal backs. They are indeed slightly thicker than the glass one (less than a millimetre thicker, I'd say), meaning that tight fitting cases don't quite fit.

They do look good though, and are very easy to fit. Got mine for about £12 each inc shipping from HK.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 2, 2010)

Stuff having a case, it'll only break if you worry about it.


----------



## handyman121 (Dec 2, 2010)

I've had a strange problem with my recently acquired Iphone all day today. It kept making a strange beep every 15 mins or so, a noise I didn"t recognise. I checked everything. no alerts, no mails or messages waiting.  It didn't do it when I was out this afternoon though. This evening when I came home it started again. I have just discovered that it is my old Nokia on my desk about to run out of battery.  Doh !


----------



## stupid dogbot (Dec 3, 2010)

handyman121 said:


> I've had a strange problem with my recently acquired Iphone all day today. It kept making a strange beep every 15 mins or so, a noise I didn"t recognise. I checked everything. no alerts, no mails or messages waiting.  It didn't do it when I was out this afternoon though. This evening when I came home it started again. I have just discovered that it is my old Nokia on my desk about to run out of battery.  Doh !


 
Awesome.


----------



## maximilian ping (Dec 7, 2010)

My iphone ipod keeps on deleting any new playlist i make. i've tried deleting old ones, but every time i make a new playlist its stays for about 3 days then suddenly it's gone. is my phone thowing a hissy fit at my recent taste in music or what?


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2011)

The good news for US users is that the iPhone 4 is now available on Verizon and comes with Wi-Fi tethering,like earlier Android phones. 
The bad news is that Verizon's network doesn't support simultaneous data and voice, which is quite _awesomely_ crap.

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...ering_but_no_simultaneous_data_and_voice.html

Here's an infographic showing the differences between the networks:

http://mashable.com/2011/01/11/iphone-comparison-infographic/


----------



## Kanda (Jan 12, 2011)

Really really weird thing started happening to mine. Recently, if I out it on my bedside table at night, it will fully drain the battery before I wake up. Anywhere else in the house, it's fine overnight and through the next day. Really strange!

I've put some wifi speakers in my bedroom recently, could interference from them cause it???


----------



## Crispy (Jan 12, 2011)

editor said:


> The bad news is that Verizon's network doesn't support simultaneous data and voice, which is quite _awesomely_ crap.
> http://mashable.com/2011/01/11/iphone-comparison-infographic/


 
CDMA is absolutely laughable, even in its '3G' modes. I believe Verizon's '4G' network will be a GSM variant, at last.


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Really really weird thing started happening to mine. Recently, if I out it on my bedside table at night, it will fully drain the battery before I wake up. Anywhere else in the house, it's fine overnight and through the next day. Really strange!
> 
> I've put some wifi speakers in my bedroom recently, could interference from them cause it???


I really wouldn't think so.  Are you turning it off at night? If it's on it might just be that it's struggling to find a 3G connection and that's what's draining the battery.


----------



## alan2001 (Jan 12, 2011)

yeah that shouldn't be happening. do you have 'auto-lock' set to 1 minute?


----------



## Kanda (Jan 12, 2011)

Auto lock is one minute. It's been fine since I got it, odd that it's just started now (I don't turn it off at night)


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Auto lock is one minute. It's been fine since I got it, odd that it's just started now (I don't turn it off at night)


Have you got a variable signal in your bedroom?


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2011)

Crispy said:


> CDMA is absolutely laughable, even in its '3G' modes. I believe Verizon's '4G' network will be a GSM variant, at last.


That's not expected until the end of the year - and, of course, the phone will be useless in Europe.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 12, 2011)

editor said:


> Have you got a variable signal in your bedroom?


 
No, not normally. As said, it's been fine for months. Unless they've moved an antenna locally...


----------



## elbows (Jan 12, 2011)

Oh I just read about new Safari stuff in iOS 4.2. From a webapp developers point of view this is excellent news:

http://www.mobilexweb.com/blog/safari-ios-accelerometer-websockets-html5

Android on the other hand seems not to be advancing with this stuff at a rate that keeps webapp devs happy:

http://www.mobilexweb.com/blog/android-2-3-gingerbread-the-browser

Boo, I want both these platforms to work well so that I can actually bring myself to do crossplatform webapp stuff without too much pain.


----------



## alan2001 (Jan 12, 2011)

i don't suppose you have 'Copilot Live' installed, do you?


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2011)

Apple is catching up with Android to offer the handy wi-fi personal hotspot feature in iOS 4.3 - subject to carrier approval of course.

http://www.bgr.com/2011/01/12/confirmed-personal-hotspot-feature-coming-to-all-iphones-in-ios-4-3/


----------



## ChrisFilter (Jan 13, 2011)

editor said:


> Apple is catching up with Android to offer the handy wi-fi personal hotspot feature in iOS 4.3 - subject to carrier approval of course.
> 
> http://www.bgr.com/2011/01/12/confirmed-personal-hotspot-feature-coming-to-all-iphones-in-ios-4-3/


 
The handset can certainly handle it - been using MyFi for ages from the Cydia store.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 13, 2011)

alan2001 said:


> i don't suppose you have 'Copilot Live' installed, do you?


 
I do.


----------



## grit (Jan 14, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> The handset can certainly handle it - been using MyFi for ages from the Cydia store.


 
Its really not in the carriers interest to do it though.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 14, 2011)

Its would be the same added cost you incur for tethering, it limited to 3Gb month, so if its shared or not they don't care, long as your paying.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2011)

If I had an iPhone, I think this would be going straight on it!









> Multifl0w was recently updated in Cydia and brings a WebOS-like “Cards” (or Mobile Safari “Pages” if you’re Apple-centric) interface to iPhone, iPod touch, and iPad multitasking system.
> Multifl0w has been available in Cydia for some time now, but previously only allowed for an exposé display of apps (up to 9 at a time) running in the background. The mod features smooth animations and is low on system resources, and also packs full Activator integration for gesture support. If you’ve ever used ProSwitcher in the past then you’ll be familiar with the way Multifl0w handles app switching.
> I prefer Multifl0w over the stock iOS app-switcher dock and have been using it on both my iPhone and iPad for the past day or so with no crashes or hiccups. Multifl0w is available in the Cydia Store now for $4.99.
> 
> http://www.tipb.com/2011/01/14/multifl0w-update-brings-webos-cards-multitasking-ios-jailbreak/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 15, 2011)

Not sure I'd want to pay for the privilege...


----------



## alan2001 (Jan 15, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I do.


 
sorry, that was directed at Kanga. (re CoPilot Live.) it used to be a terrible battery sucker before a recent upgrade because there was no way to switch it off.


----------



## Kanda (Jan 15, 2011)

alan2001 said:


> sorry, that was directed at Kanga. (re CoPilot Live.) it used to be a terrible battery sucker before a recent upgrade because there was no way to switch it off.


 
Oh, was it? 

No, I don't have it installed.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 15, 2011)

editor said:


> If I had an iPhone, I think this would be going straight on it!


 
This is sort of being implemented by Apple, I think that stroke up instead of double click the home button is coming in 4.3, stroke up and then and left and right for apps from the home screen.

Will see if they expand on this in forth coming releases.  There is suggestion of removal of the home button, that would allow them to make it smaller.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2011)

The combination of the gesture area underneath the screen and the 'card view' multi-tasking still makes Palm's webOS the slickest I've ever used.


----------



## kropotkin (Jan 15, 2011)

I was using that for a year before ios4 introduced a much less comprehensive app-switching system. I didn't realise it still worked. The interface on multiflow is very very good, far superior to the Apple version.
The latter has a clever system of background resource allocation that automatically closes programs if they aren't being used and take up too much processor time- if multiflow just sits on top of it and doesn't set up a parallel system for keeping apps open them I'm all for it again.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 16, 2011)

I firmly believe that while the GUI for the task switch is ropey,  Apple multi tasking is the best on any mobile.  It does exactly what you expect without ever being a resource or battery drain.    Clever take on a very old concept.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I firmly believe that while the GUI for the task switch is ropey,  Apple multi tasking is the best on any mobile.  It does exactly what you expect without ever being a resource or battery drain.    Clever take on a very old concept.


I've had an iPhone. I've got an Android. I've got a Palm Pre. The webOS's multi tasking remains the best of the lot. Shame about everything else on the phone though.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 16, 2011)

Did you read my post?  I'm not talking about the GUI.  GUI with that double click, is quite poor. Does a job, no more.  I think its being replaced.

The underlying technology is what I find interesting and is a very clever implementation of task management for limited resource devices.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2011)

Sunray said:


> The underlying technology is what I find interesting and is a very clever implementation of task management for limited resource devices.


The Palm Pre was able to multitask with 50 simultaneous apps. I'd call that pretty clever myself. 

http://www.engadget.com/2010/01/21/palm-pre-plus-shows-off-multitasking-upgrade-with-50-simultaneou/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 17, 2011)

I call that pretty meaningless really; there's no way in the real world you'd need even half that number running at any one time...


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I call that pretty meaningless really; there's no way in the real world you'd need even half that number running at any one time...


But it illustrates that the webOS implementation of 'task management for limited resource devices' was very, very good indeed.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 17, 2011)

I just checked and right now I have 32 applications running on my iPhone, it doesn't either slow down or waste battery life and this is for directly compiled applications. I have 8 games running.  

WebOS can do what it does because those apps are all JavaScript which isn't quite the same thing. Its sand boxed and they are very resource light apps from the start.  WebOS does nothing special from the well defined MT that was invented 50 years ago.  

Apple's implementation is a 7 prong attack at the issue and goes to prove they have some clever people working there and aren't afraid to let them work.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jan 17, 2011)

WebOS also runs on piss poor hardware.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 17, 2011)

HP are unveiling their new webos devices on 9th February, so that should change soon. A tablet running webos would be particularly interesting


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I just checked and right now I have 32 applications running on my iPhone, it doesn't either slow down or waste battery life and this is for directly compiled applications. I have 8 games running.
> 
> WebOS can do what it does because those apps are all JavaScript which isn't quite the same thing. Its sand boxed and they are very resource light apps from the start.  WebOS does nothing special from the well defined MT that was invented 50 years ago.
> 
> Apple's implementation is a 7 prong attack at the issue and goes to prove they have some clever people working there and aren't afraid to let them work.


I'm not even using a Palm phone any more, so I've got nothing to prove here, but the webOS really is the most elegant mobile OS of the lot. The way it handles notifications, for example, is miles ahead of Apple's clunky system. And this site agrees:



> WebOS is often considered the best OS for mobile. The Palm company was acquired by HP and we are expecting webOS beeing developed in the future because HP says the OS is the main reason for the acquisition and want to use it on netbooks too.
> 
> Based on Linux, webOS supports most of the tools for Linux such as SDL for games. WebOS supports HTML 5, JavaScript, CSS. It is multitasking.
> The PDK allows to add native code, written in C or C++ to applications. The SDK includes a simulator to test applications under Windows or Linux, and Mojo, an Ajax framework that includes widgets. You can add your own widgets.
> ...


Shame that the hardware and apps couldn't match the excellent OS.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 17, 2011)

Crispy said:


> HP are unveiling their new webos devices on 9th February, so that should change soon. A tablet running webos would be particularly interesting


 
I'm more interested in Android 3.0 than WebOS as a platform.

The sneak previews on the engadget site have caught my eye and lift the android platform away from clunky with that odd long press concept which is essentially double click in sheeps clothing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 17, 2011)

I have to say that we've been looking at doing mobile apps for a while now - as add ons and different interfaces to other systems we write, not as a mobile contractor or anything - and I'm not interested in platform-specific stuff at all any more. If we do anything in-house (basically meaning "written by me", it isn't exactly a big company) it's going to be device-aware HTML5. No faffing with apple store approval, no cross platform compilation issues, the same app can work on desktop and mobile... I just don't have the spare time to mess about. The Unity guys can compile fancy 3d stuff for platforms if we want that.


----------



## elbows (Jan 17, 2011)

With HTML5/CSS3 dev I only got as far as doing some tests on the iphone & ipad and the hardware accelerated CSS transforms were good, just as smooth as the native user interface. I wouldnt have wanted to try to make a 2D game or overly layered/complex 2d animation with them as there were glitches here and there but for even fancy UI stuff things were very impressive. If your app is of the type that would work fine as a webapp then it is a fine option, especially as access to various mobile hardware features (accelerometer, gps, compass etc) becomes the norm.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 17, 2011)

elbows said:


> With HTML5/CSS3 dev I only got as far as doing some tests on the iphone & ipad and the hardware accelerated CSS transforms were good, just as smooth as the native user interface. I wouldnt have wanted to try to make a 2D game or overly layered/complex 2d animation with them as there were glitches here and there but for even fancy UI stuff things were very impressive. If your app is of the type that would work fine as a webapp then it is a fine option, especially as access to various mobile hardware features (accelerometer, gps, compass etc) becomes the norm.


 
This requires the use of JavaScript.  The worst abomination of a computer language since the beginning of time.  

All the development of OO languages and software engineering concepts over the last 50 years pretty much throw on the bonfire with that language.  There are essentially bugs in there that are now part of the language because Microsoft sat on the JS development committee and realised if they weren't in there, their own websites would fail, so insisted on it staying.


----------



## elbows (Jan 18, 2011)

Javascript is far from the perfect language but it does many things just fine. So once again, for approximately the 8 billionth time, I find myself at odds with your opinions on all things IT.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 18, 2011)

Its hardly an opinion.  There is the concept of functional equivalence in type 3 languages so it can do anything.   

But that does not mean its good, its resoundingly crap.  Its lack of basic type checking is crazy, even weirder though is it's propensity to, on occasion, throw type errors leaving me 

People are constructing huge applications in this crappy language and then wondering why its taking so long and they are so buggy.

Google have written a Java to JavaScript converter.  This shows how crap the language is, although translating one interpreted language to another is


----------



## elbows (Jan 18, 2011)

Of course its an opinion, this mistake is the reason I so seldom agree with you, you continue to believe that your own opinion is the be-all and end-all of IT wisdom and established fact. Its not. Neither is mine.

Javascript is like anything else, it has strengths and weaknesses. Peoples opinions of it will vary depending on what factors are rating it, and what struggles or successes they may have had with it personally.

Im sure Google also had other motivations for the Java->Javascript stuff beyond what you are talking about, such as enabling the existing pool of Java developers to do stuff in javascript environments.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 19, 2011)

elbows said:


> Of course its an opinion, this mistake is the reason I so seldom agree with you, you continue to believe that your own opinion is the be-all and end-all of IT wisdom and established fact. Its not. Neither is mine.
> 
> Javascript is like anything else, it has strengths and weaknesses.* Peoples opinions of it will vary depending on what factors are rating it, and what struggles or successes they may have had with it personally.
> *
> Im sure Google also had other motivations for the Java->Javascript stuff beyond what you are talking about, such as enabling the existing pool of Java developers to do stuff in javascript environments.


 
I can develop anything in any type 3 language I am given and I have a 15 year track record of continued unbroken success in doing just that.  JavaScript is crap if you have the smallest ounce of common sense and are familiar with fully fledged 2 and 3 pass compiled languages.

I would suggest that Google felt that using a very well engineered and mature object orientated language with full type checking, consistent behaviour and decent development environments to get things done quicker would be a sensible reading of the need for a Java->JS converter.

It's totally baffling that all the basic computer science principals that have given us languages such as C++, C# and Java, Ruby on Rail and functional languages like SML have been practically ignored in the development of JavaScript. Its like 30 years of computer language development ceased to exist in the development of JS.  

Its become popular because that is all there was and it was easy to do what you wanted.  But now its being used for full blown client applications which is insanity, the side effect of which is that its here to stay which makes me


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 19, 2011)

Er, yeah, ok, whatever.

*steps away*

_somebody_ has an _issue_


----------



## Sunray (Jan 19, 2011)

Yeah, JavaScript, its _really quite shit_


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 19, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Er, yeah, ok, whatever.
> 
> *steps away*
> 
> _somebody_ has an _issue_


 
I'm struggling to relate all this so Apple's iPhone...


----------



## Sunray (Jan 23, 2011)

Dragon Dictate, its free and it works unbelievably well and you can use it to text people instead of using the keyboard.


----------



## Sunray (Jan 23, 2011)

Even more amazingly using touchbb I can dictate this message onto the boards. Interestingly this is making entering text harder and easier at the same time but I'm not sure after editing the text the amount of time you spend editing whether just typing it would be quicker.


----------



## dlx1 (Jan 23, 2011)

^ found as Dragon Dictation  copy & past  Ta for that.

I like Type n Talk.  I type i.e someone name, And the name is played out load.

Dictionary.com  Really the best it got a Voice button (speck your Word looking to spell) it played out load word to like TnT and has description. 

Down side for me don't have wifi all the time to recover word it has to go to databases.
_
Is that better cuntchops _
KE


----------



## kropotkin (Jan 28, 2011)

I assume that message was dictated? Not a great advert if so


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 28, 2011)

Either that or the dyslexia...


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 1, 2011)

*ahem*

Recommended/desireable iPhone Apps thread? I get a shiny new iPhone4 today (YAY!), hopefully still slick with the blood of Chinese kiddies, but I suspect those killjoys at Apple don't allow that and instead it will just be shiny.

Anyway, recc apps thread?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 2, 2011)

Apple are aggressively pursuing their profit margins (feeling the heat from Android?) with this latest move which is sure to have the anti Apple brigade frothing at the mouth with outrage:



> Apple clarified on Tuesday that it was still allowing customers to read e-books they bought elsewhere within apps. (The New York Times reported earlier that Apple had told developers that content purchased outside of the App Store would no longer be viewable in apps.) For example, a Sony app could still access books the customer bought earlier from Sony’s store.
> 
> But Steve Haber, president of Sony’s digital reading division, said on Monday that Apple had told his company that from now on, all in-app purchases would have to go through Apple.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Feb 2, 2011)

I would suggest that that is the end of e-book readers on the iOS platform.


----------



## elbows (Feb 2, 2011)

I wouldnt go that far, this move sucks and has pissed me off but it sounds like you will still be able to view content purchased elsewhere, its just that actually purchasing such content on the ipad and then viewing it will become nowhere near as seamless as it is now.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 2, 2011)

The NYT article is just based on Sony's press release, and it is not the case that they're banning browser-purchased content. What seems to have happened is that Apple are invoking a clause which says that if you offer content via an app that's paid for outside of the app, you also have to offer that same content from within the app using an app store payment.



> “We are now requiring that if an app offers customers the ability to purchase books outside of the app, that the same option is also available to customers from within the app with in-app purchase.”


http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20110201/apple-on-sony-reader-we-have-not-changed-our-guidelines/


----------



## Crispy (Feb 2, 2011)

ie. so that they can get their 30%


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 2, 2011)

well yeah

I said it when the "charity donations" and "newspaper subscriptions" stuff was going around, and it's the same issue this time - the big hole in the App Store model is when you have people distributing free apps with functionality that can be unlocked via payments elsewhere that doesn't go through Apple. Then, all the App Store is is a medium for distributing other people's paid content and doesn't make a bean. Obviously they want to avoid that.

Still, based on sales it doesn't make a vast amount of money relative to Apple's profits. The benefit of it for Apple is mostly promotional for the iP[od|hone|ad], it makes the devices much more attractive. They may well not go through with enforcing every clause in their vast Ts&Cs if it means they lose big popular apps like Kindle.


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 2, 2011)

Mr Fridgey/Crispy, since VLC has been removed from the Appstore, do you have a recc for another meejah player?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 3, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> Mr Fridgey/Crispy, since VLC has been removed from the Appstore, do you have a recc for another meejah player?


 
Not really - I don't think there's another one that does the same. Which is a shame.


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 3, 2011)

Arses. Looks like Oplayer & some kind of converter for me then


----------



## Crispy (Feb 3, 2011)

CineXplayer


----------



## dlx1 (Feb 3, 2011)

> ince VLC has been removed from the Appstore


 wankers

when sinking up will Appstore delete app from  iphonetouch ?
Possible to copy off iphonetouch to backup?


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 3, 2011)

It was removed following a complaint from one of the coders who wrote VLC that the appstore agreement violated the original terms of distribution of VLC.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 3, 2011)

No, once you've bought an app, it's yours. I have several 'discontinued' apps on my touch and it's fine.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 3, 2011)

It was removed because of a Nokia employee insisting that it broke the GPL (which it did, in the same way that any app on the AppStore has to by implementing DRM for security signing purposes).

It's available via Cydia on jailbroken iOS devices, and hasn't been deleted for those who have already downloaded from the AppStore.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 3, 2011)

someone here might know this

what kind of percentage is  ios3 vs ios4   i'm doing an article on html5 video  and would like to get some figures on  video support (ios3 has a bug in it meaning the video tag isn't properly implemented)


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 3, 2011)

There was a recent article about that - http://www.readwriteweb.com/mobile/2011/01/what-percentage-of-iphone-owners-are-on-ios4.php

So from the sample surveyed (who may not be representative) 89.73% of iOS users are on 4.x

(Similar survey for Android, if anyone is interested - http://www.readwriteweb.com/mobile/2010/12/data-android-fragmentation.php )


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 3, 2011)

i wonder what it's like on the ipad... my boss who has one says  he end up never syncing it


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 3, 2011)

I rarely sync my ipad, but that's because it doesn't charge if you leave it hooked to the computer like the phone does (also there's not really space on my desk).

You can generally assume that people are using the latest iOS, and if they aren't, you can say "use the latest iOS".


----------



## elbows (Feb 4, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I rarely sync my ipad, but that's because it doesn't charge if you leave it hooked to the computer like the phone does (also there's not really space on my desk).


 
It should charge, albeit not as quickly as with the supplied power adaptor. Perhaps certain USB ports dont have the juice to charge it.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2011)

elbows said:


> It should charge, albeit not as quickly as with the supplied power adaptor. Perhaps certain USB ports dont have the juice to charge it.


Yep: http://www.tipb.com/2010/04/03/ipad-charging-usb-highpower-port/


----------



## sim667 (Feb 4, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> Mr Fridgey/Crispy, since VLC has been removed from the Appstore, do you have a recc for another meejah player?


 
Ive just started using plex, that will stream from your comp, or will play most video formats from the phone memory.....

 Plex

My main issue now is that i have to rename my files to the plex format, so it can download all the details for them


----------



## strung out (Feb 8, 2011)

is the £505 on the o2 website likely to be the cheapest i can get a contract free iphone 4 for?


----------



## maldwyn (Feb 8, 2011)

Assuming you're talking about the 16GB, why not pay an extra fiver and get it SIM-free direct from Apple for £510?


----------



## strung out (Feb 8, 2011)

oh yeah, for some reason i thought it was more expensive


----------



## WWWeed (Feb 11, 2011)

*Hack reveals passwords from locked iPhones and iPads*



> Researchers have devised a method for stealing passwords stored on locked iPhones and iPads that doesn't require cracking of the device's passcode.
> 
> The technique, disclosed on Thursday by members of the Fraunhofer Institute for Secure Information Technology, requires physical access to the targeted iPhone or iPad, so remote attacks aren't possible. But it takes less than six minutes and carry out, and the after effects are easy to conceal, making it ideal to carry out on devices that are lost, stolen or temporarily unattended.
> 
> ...




taken from http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/02/10/iphone_password_retrieval_hack/

I cant believe the iphone/ipad stores sensitive data such as network passwords in plain text!


----------



## editor (Feb 11, 2011)

Now this *is* funny:



Verizon iPhone launches to humiliating disinterest in Minneapolis
http://www.wirefresh.com/verizon-iphone-launches-to-humiliating-disinterest-in-minneapolis/


----------



## Kanda (Feb 11, 2011)

Wasn't the massive dump of snow and freezing temperatures a factor?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 11, 2011)

In fairness, there was another big launch party in Minneapolis last night, too.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 11, 2011)

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/10/verizon-iphone-launches-to-short-lines-cold-temperatures/


----------



## editor (Feb 11, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Wasn't the massive dump of snow and freezing temperatures a factor?


Seeing as all the Apple staff managed to make it in, I wouldn't say it was a huge factor - low turn outs were reported elsewhere too.

This isn't some piddling little hicktown shopping mall either - it's the biggest mall in America!


----------



## editor (Feb 11, 2011)

Kanda said:


> http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/10/verizon-iphone-launches-to-short-lines-cold-temperatures/





> A similar situation was seen in San Francisco, where cold temperatures couldn't be blamed for low turnout. According to CNET, only two people were in line at Apple's Stockton Street flagship store just minutes before opening, with "literally more Apple Store employees, police officers and reporters--each--than people in line to buy iPhones."


----------



## Kanda (Feb 11, 2011)

editor said:


>


 
Why are you facepalming? I was supporting what you said when I found that article. I'd seen the line you quote.

fucksake....


----------



## editor (Feb 11, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Why are you facepalming? I was supporting what you said when I found that article.
> 
> fucksake....


Fuck me you're touchy! I was facepalming _the laughable flop of a launch_, but now you've earned your own facepalm. And here it is, especially for you:


----------



## Kanda (Feb 11, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> In fairness, there was another big launch party in Minneapolis last night, too.


 
what was that?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 11, 2011)

New Sims record, innit*.

Tbh, this was hardly a _new_ product launch, was it? It was the 4 being available on Verizon. Perhaps everyone just already has one...

*Obviously, I'm not actually serious...


----------



## sim667 (Feb 11, 2011)

Why is having iphone on verizon being pushed as such a big thing?


----------



## editor (Feb 11, 2011)

Is there a smaller iPhone in the works to ward off the explosive growth of Android?

I don't think so, but it'd another rumour:
http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...umour-apple-developing-budget-iphone-5-927923


----------



## Sunray (Feb 11, 2011)

I would be surprised if Apple came up with anything cheap.


----------



## editor (Feb 11, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I would be surprised if Apple came up with anything cheap.


Me too, but they must be looking at what's happening with Android which registered an astonishing 888.8% growth in 2010.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 11, 2011)

Depends on whether they care about volume or profits. I think they'd be quite happy making good money on a smaller market share (which still represents year-on-year growth, just not as fast as the rest)

There's never been a cheap cut-down apple laptop, and I doubt there will be a cheap cut-down apple phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 11, 2011)

editor said:


> Fuck me you're touchy!


 
 Pot/Kettle.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 11, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I would be surprised if Apple came up with anything cheap.


 
I'm not so sure, they introduces a cheaper iPod with the mini after the iPod hit it's fourth gen, so it'd be about time if they are going this route again...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 11, 2011)

Apparently of prostitutes that own a smartphone, 70 per cent have BlackBerries while just 11 per cent own iPhones.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 11, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Apparently of prostitutes that own a smartphone, 70 per cent have BlackBerries while just 11 per cent own iPhones.


 
This a recent study you've undertaken?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 11, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This a recent study you've undertaken?


 
It was hard work, but someone had to do it. 

Nah I forgot the link


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 11, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> It was hard work, but someone had to do it.
> 
> Nah I forgot the link


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 11, 2011)

On a serious note, that's a strange data set to read...never really think about the impact of technology and social media on industries like that...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 11, 2011)

I'm surprised there isn't an app for it tbh.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 11, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> I'm surprised there isn't an app for it tbh.


 
Oh man...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 12, 2011)

It would be making the best use of location based services.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 12, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> It would be making the best use of location based services.


 
In app purchases, user reviews...this is so wrong.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> In app purchases, user reviews...this is so wrong.


 
Apple could become the biggest pimps in the world.


----------



## Winot (Feb 12, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Apple could become the biggest pimps in the world.


 
Obviously they would have to be vetted by Steve Jobs personally to ensure they complied with Apple's standards.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 14, 2011)

So the latest rumour is of a smaller, less featured "iphone nano" - can Apple compete in the feature phone market?


----------



## tarannau (Feb 14, 2011)

Be nice to see, but this rumour's been going for a while. There seem some notable compromises to be crossed, but it's certainly possible.

Personally I'd love to see a smaller, cheaper smartphone design that worked half as well. As good as all this technology is, I still prefer a smaller pocketable phone with a less vulnerable screen.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2011)

Can't see it myself. A smaller, less capable, cheapo iPhone hardly seems to fit with Jobs' philosophy. A smaller iPod is one thing, but a hugely compromised iPhone?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 14, 2011)

I might buy one, if it meant a longer battery life.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 14, 2011)

Hmmmm, would be interesting to see how they approached app compatibility on a different screen res...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 14, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I might buy one, if it meant a longer battery life.


 
Is that such an issue though? Just charge your phone each night, problem solved.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I might buy one, if it meant a longer battery life.


Unless it's got a really tiny screen, that battery's still going to have to be pretty big to offer anything other than a unpleasantly compromised battery life, and the CPU would also have to be pegged back too. 

Apple make great smartphones that stand up - or surpass- the best of the rest - I really can't think of a compelling argument why they'd suddenly start releasing less sexy new models with a smaller screen, slower CPU and crippled battery life which, presumably, wouldn't be able to run all the latest games.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Is that such an issue though? Just charge your phone each night, problem solved.


 Removable battery solves the problem twice over!


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 14, 2011)

TBH for me the one place all the 'i' objects of desire fall down is the lack of a n easily)removable/replaceable battery.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 14, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Hmmmm, would be interesting to see how they approached app compatibility on a different screen res...


 
I think it would have to be it's own new category. It would match with the strategy they took with the ipod, when they released the mini.

The only time I ever owned a spare battery for a phone, it was such a pain in the arse keeping both batteries charged, that I usually never bothered.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I think it would have to be it's own new category. It would match with the strategy they took with the ipod, when they released the mini.


It's not really comparable to the iPod mini though. People expect a lot more from a phone, and unless ALL the apps in the App Store work on this new mini phone it's going to look a bit of a confused offering.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 14, 2011)

People expect a lot more from a _smart_phone. The vast majority of phones out there are still 'feature' phones. Free on contract. 50 quid PAYG. This is what I asked my original question about: can Apple compete in this market?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 14, 2011)

editor said:


> It's not really comparable to the iPod mini though. People expect a lot more from a phone, and unless ALL the apps in the App Store work on this new mini phone it's going to look a bit of a confused offering.


 
You can say the same thing about the Palm Veer.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 14, 2011)

Mini Meh.

I wouldn't buy one.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2011)

Crispy said:


> People expect a lot more from a _smart_phone. The vast majority of phones out there are still 'feature' phones. Free on contract. 50 quid PAYG. This is what I asked my original question about: can Apple compete in this market?


 Feature phones are fast being displaced by smartphones, and I can't think of any reason why Apple would now want to offer a feature-stripped contribution to such a fast-disappearing market.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 14, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You can say the same thing about the Palm Veer.


 
Yep. That thing tempts me too.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You can say the same thing about the Palm Veer.


Different philosophy really as it's still a fully featured webOS phone, just in a smaller package.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 14, 2011)

editor said:


> Feature phones are fast being displaced by smartphones, and I can't think of any reason why Apple would now want to offer a feature-stripped contribution to such a fast-disappearing market.


 
Entry into less developed markets?


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 14, 2011)

Would Appuhl want to start making inroads into the markets where feature phones _are_ still growing tho? It's where Nokia have been chopped off at the thighs - can't sell smartphones, and the markets for their feature phones are being swamped by lo-cost, lo-tech manufacturers in the home markets.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> Would Appuhl want to start making inroads into the markets where feature phones _are_ still growing tho? It's where Nokia have been chopped off at the thighs - can't sell smartphones, and the markets for their feature phones are being swamped by lo-cost, lo-tech manufacturers in the home markets.


It's not a market Apple traditionally go for and I can't see much incentive for them to start now, tbh.


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 14, 2011)

My thinking too - too late an entry, not enough brand recognition (despite the iPod), too many competitors who are probably nimbler & quicker reacting in that market. Apple's approach seems to be geared toward taking itself 'outside' the commodity market process, so it will be interesting to see how it copes when the smartphone market goes that way since they won't have the technology differentiation the desktops have.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 14, 2011)

I saw this incredible graph the other day, showing profit/unit versus units sold (so the area of each bar on the chart was total profit) - Nokia makes a wide, shallow slab - massive volume, hairline margins. Apple's is a soraing tower - restricted number of units sold but massive profit per unit. I've always argued that this is Apple's natural market, but the success of the cheap ipods proves they're not afraid of the mass market. They just hate putting out an inferior product.


----------



## editor (Feb 14, 2011)

Here's a hugely unconvincing mock up that looks pretty awful. Who'd want to type on that tiny screen?







Article: http://www.9to5mac.com/51850/iphone-nano-and-major-mobileme-overhaul-this-summer


----------



## strung out (Feb 14, 2011)

the screen looks about the same size


----------



## Crispy (Feb 14, 2011)

Nah, that's not what I'd expect. Not enough differentiation from the fat model. What does it doesn't it do that the other doesn't/does? How could it be any cheaper?

_If_ this thing exists, I expect it to be completely incompatible with existing apps. Screen the same width as existing (for the keyboard), but shorter - maybe square, or landscape. It will look and feel like an iphone, anyone who uses one will be able to work the other, but it will have everything but the very basics trimmed off it to get the price down.

That's only _if_ Apple wants to get into this market. Might make more sense in China or similar.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 14, 2011)

strung out said:


> the screen looks about the same size


 
Indeed, it's the surrounds with the hardware button and speaker that're missing...


----------



## Kanda (Feb 14, 2011)

I read something a while back that Jobs was against having the hardware button from the off.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 14, 2011)

Kanda said:


> I read something a while back that Jobs was against having the hardware button from the off.


 
See also: Recent iOS betas that have multi-finger gestures to replace it. I personally like the home button and reckon there should be another one (Task Switcher)


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 14, 2011)

Crispy said:


> See also: Recent iOS betas that have multi-finger gestures to replace it. I personally like the home button and reckon there should be another one (Task Switcher)


 
Agreed.



> That's only if Apple wants to get into this market. Might make more sense in China or similar.



Or, sit back, get a huge wedge in with the no-doubt booming (or soon to be booming) Chinese creative industries and early adopter class (which is probably about the same size as the whole UK market  ) to set the Apple brand up as being 'better, just because...' and wait until they all start buying smartphones, which will probably be sometime in May or something.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 14, 2011)

Kanda said:


> I read something a while back that Jobs was against having the hardware button from the off.


 
Seeing as that was the bit of my last one that failed, I'd agree. Stupid inclusion anyway, imo. The gestures you get with things like QuickDo are way better.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 14, 2011)

editor said:


> Feature phones are fast being displaced by smartphones, and I can't think of any reason why Apple would now want to offer a feature-stripped contribution to such a fast-disappearing market.


 
Why would HP? It looks quite cute the Veer but dunno if I'd want something that small again, much like the much touted iPhone nano really...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 14, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Nah, that's not what I'd expect. Not enough differentiation from the fat model. What does it doesn't it do that the other doesn't/does? How could it be any cheaper?
> 
> _If_ this thing exists, I expect it to be completely incompatible with existing apps. Screen the same width as existing (for the keyboard), but shorter - maybe square, or landscape. It will look and feel like an iphone, anyone who uses one will be able to work the other, but it will have everything but the very basics trimmed off it to get the price down.
> 
> That's only _if_ Apple wants to get into this market. Might make more sense in China or similar.


 
This makes perfect sense. I can't see apple releasing a half arsed ibudget phone, but expect a massively cut down model that does simple tasks very well.


----------



## Me76 (Feb 14, 2011)

With the iPhone 5, is it realistically going to be here in the Summer?  

I thought I had got a 3 gs from eBay but the other day found out it is actually a 3G.

I am very much trying to remember that I have loved it muchly for the last 5 months but am also looking at 4s very enviously. 

If I get a job soon I may well have redundancy money to spend that hasn't gone on bills. But if it is a case of only waiting 5 months for 5 to come out I will wait for 4 to drop in price.


----------



## tiki (Feb 14, 2011)

Apples cycle of releases points to late June or early July. 95% guaranteed.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 14, 2011)

If they didn't get that aerial thing at the start, I reckon the 4 could go for 2 years, its really lacking very little hardware wise.

But I can see Apple want rid of that tag so 100% certain a new phone will be out in the summer.


----------



## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

Here's another daft rumour, no doubt propagated by websites keen to drive up traffic.







http://www.bgr.com/2011/02/14/apple...dels-including-one-with-a-slide-out-keyboard/


----------



## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

Not a chance in hell


----------



## Sunray (Feb 15, 2011)

Steve jobs would take over from his death bed and cancel that project before someone at Apple even thought it up.

Its interesting that I've got the orientation lock on most of the time.  The only time I ever go landscape is for safari, sat nav and the odd game.

Nothing else requires me to go landscape so a landscape keyboard would be super shit and something Blackberry and Palm realised forever ago.


----------



## RaverDrew (Feb 15, 2011)

Why ?


----------



## magneze (Feb 15, 2011)

It's not that much of a silly idea. Kids love the Blackberry because of its easy texting via the keyboard. When you look at what these potential future phone customers actually use or aspire to use, it isn't a touchscreen atm.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Nothing else requires me to go landscape so a landscape keyboard would be super shit and something Blackberry and Palm realised forever ago.


 
I'm the opposite, any time I want to type I naturally turn the phone to landscape, just seems to fit in my hands better and makes for faster "two thumb" typing that way.


----------



## electroplated (Feb 15, 2011)

editor said:


> Here's another daft rumour, no doubt propagated by websites keen to drive up traffic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that's a hardware add on that was posted a while back - it's real, but it is a non apple accessory for the iphone 4
http://www.reghardware.com/2010/11/18/boxwave_keyboard_buddy_iphone_4/


----------



## Sunray (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> See also: Recent iOS betas that have multi-finger gestures to replace it. I personally like the home button and reckon there should be another one (Task Switcher)


 
Are you mental. I want rid of that button.  I see it as outdated and pointless. One more thing to go wrong.

I look forward to the new gestures in 4.3, the task switcher is going to become a bit more user friendly.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

The home button is very user friendly. No matter what the screen is doing, what app you're in, pressing that button gets you safe. I think it's fundamental to the iphone's design philosophy.


----------



## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

I liked the hardware iphone button too, In fact, I prefer the four Android buttons even more (home - menu - back - search) although the Palm webOS gesture area is the best UI implementation I've seen so far.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

I really don't like the idea of gestures for core UI functions. They're invisible UI elements, which is pretty much a Bad Thing.

Good article on the topic here: http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/gestural_interfaces_a_step_backwards_in_usability_6.html

I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of iphone users don't know that you swipe left to delete an email.


----------



## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> I really don't like the idea of gestures for core UI functions. They're invisible UI elements, which is pretty much a Bad Thing.
> 
> Good article on the topic here: http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/gestural_interfaces_a_step_backwards_in_usability_6.html


Only inconsistent ones. 





> The new devices are also fun to use: gestures add a welcome feeling of activity to the otherwise joyless ones of pointing and clicking.
> 
> But the lack of consistency, inability to discover operations, coupled with the ease of accidentally triggering actions from which there is no recovery threatens the viability of these systems.*


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 15, 2011)

No hardware buttons at all is shit imo.

The problem with all these gestures is that one persons "intuitive" is another's "wtf".

A couple of core buttons (home, menu etc) makes for a much easier to learn UI.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The home button is very user friendly. No matter what the screen is doing, what app you're in, pressing that button gets you safe. I think it's fundamental to the iphone's design philosophy.


 
Until the little plastic bit breaks, and you're fucked.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> Until the little plastic bit breaks, and you're fucked.


 
A push button is a very very simple machine. It should be possible to engineer one that lasts for ever.
A software back-up would be nice I suppose, but only if it's omnipresent like the hardware one. And definitely not a gesture.


----------



## kyser_soze (Feb 15, 2011)

There's something reassurnginly physical about having to actually press a button to make something happen.


----------



## editor (Feb 15, 2011)

Looks like teensy phones are all the rage now, so maybe Apple better get on the bandwagon before it leaves town:






http://news.cnet.com/2300-1035_3-10006675.html


----------



## ovaltina (Feb 15, 2011)

kyser_soze said:


> Agreed.
> 
> 
> 
> Or, sit back, get a huge wedge in with the no-doubt booming (or soon to be booming) Chinese creative industries and early adopter class (which is probably about the same size as the whole UK market  ) to set the Apple brand up as being 'better, just because...' and wait until they all start buying smartphones, which will probably be sometime in May or something.



Too late - ZTE (a Chinese firm) is already outselling Apple worldwide, and using Android as its OS for new models coming out this year.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 15, 2011)

Crispy said:


> A push button is a very very simple machine. It should be possible to engineer one that lasts for ever.



Well, it's a shame they didn't.

You have to replace the entire screen assembly on the current ones, a mere £60 even if you know what you're doing with that sort of thing. Much more if not.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

Well, that's bad engineering, not bad UI design


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 15, 2011)

I'm sure that'll make people with broken handsets feel _much_ better.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 15, 2011)

If I wanted to do that I'd have bought them a box of chocolates


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 15, 2011)

I've lost direction, here. Tbh, I thought we were talking about Apple.

Had I known that YOU were responsible for hardware buttons on iPhones, I'd have persecuted you with much more vigour.


----------



## hendo (Feb 16, 2011)

I didn't know you could swipe left to delete. I should come here more often.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 16, 2011)

There are now rumours of a 4" screen on the new iphone. In order not to break existing apps or pixel density, here's what I think might happen:







A software home button, multitasking and notifications area. Only certain apps/functions would be able to use this area (eg. video playing) - otherwise, all apps are restricted to the top portion, which is identical in size to the existing screen.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 16, 2011)

Anyone else starting to think the flood of crazy rumours might be more to do with Apple trying to keep people talking about them rather than all the shiny new devices coming out?


----------



## editor (Feb 16, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Anyone else starting to think the flood of crazy rumours might be more to do with Apple trying to keep people talking about them rather than all the shiny new devices coming out?


Yep. And the press knock out this stuff like grateful puppies.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 16, 2011)

editor said:


> Yep. And the press knock out this stuff like grateful puppies.


 
More like crackheads desperate for a fix than puppies if you ask me..!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 16, 2011)

Crispy said:


> There are now rumours of a 4" screen on the new iphone. In order not to break existing apps or pixel density, here's what I think might happen:
> 
> A software home button, multitasking and notifications area. Only certain apps/functions would be able to use this area (eg. video playing) - otherwise, all apps are restricted to the top portion, which is identical in size to the existing screen.


 
Hmmm, that would work but it just seems a bit of a bodge to me, not very Apple...


----------



## magneze (Feb 16, 2011)

Crispy said:


> There are now rumours of a 4" screen on the new iphone. In order not to break existing apps or pixel density, here's what I think might happen:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a cool idea. Makes more sense than most of the rumours flying about.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2011)

Rather unamazingly, the 'smaller iPhone' rumour is now being put to bed. 



> Bloomberg and the Wall Street Journal seemed pretty sure that an iPhone nano was inbound, but the New York Times' anonymous sources dispute that tale -- the paper writes that "Apple is not currently developing a smaller iPhone," and that the company is "not planning to introduce a smaller iPhone anytime soon." While the publication doesn't outright deny the existence of such a device at any point in the story, it does quote an anonymous Apple executive as saying that it doesn't make sense for the company to create multiple iPhone form factors at any given time, and an anonymous Apple engineer as saying that cheaper components, not a smaller size, would make for a cheaper overall price.
> 
> http://www.engadget.com/2011/02/17/nyt-apple-considering-a-cheaper-iphone-but-not-a-smaller-one-r/


So there you have it. Another load of Apple nothing being endless regurgitated by the usual sites.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 18, 2011)

Yep the rumour now is it'll be cheaper, possibly through reduced components (smaller storage and/or low pixel count on the camera?)...wonder what the next rumours will be?


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep the rumour now is it'll be cheaper, possibly through reduced components (smaller storage and/or low pixel count on the camera?)...wonder what the next rumours will be?


It's going to be powered by stars, be the size of a thimble but project apps on to the Moon.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 18, 2011)

editor said:


> It's going to be powered by stars, be the size of a thimble but project apps on to the Moon.


 
Keep us updated on the latest rumours... cheers


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2011)

Looks like the death grip issues that affected the iPhone 4 haven't been improved by the Verizon iPhone 4, despite it coming eight months after the original launch.



> Bottom line: The Verizon iPhone 4 closely resembles the original AT&T iPhone 4 in many positive respects, including offering great multimedia functionality, a sharp screen, and the best MP3 player we've seen on a phone. Unfortunately, it also shares with its sibling the possibility of compromised performance in low-signal conditions when used without a bumper or case.
> 
> As noted earlier, there have not been widespread reports of reception difficulties with the Verizon iPhone 4, and Verizon's network, unlike AT&T's, has received above-average scores from our readers for the reliability of its voice service in the past. (Those scores reflect data gathered before the launch of the Verizon iPhone 4.) But given our findings, we believe the possibility exists for individual users to experience the problem since low signal conditions are unavoidable when using any cell-phone network.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Feb 25, 2011)

What a load of bunk.   Because a problem that *nobody is reporting* might exist?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 26, 2011)

Death grip? Jesus...almost as bad a term as calling a high speed connection 'Thunderbolt'!


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Death grip? Jesus...almost as bad a term as calling a high speed connection 'Thunderbolt'!


Or the 'Jesus phone'


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 26, 2011)

editor said:


> Or the 'Jesus phone'


 
Couldn't agree more!


----------



## elbows (Feb 26, 2011)

I thought the term jesus phone was a deliberate piss take term from day one, mocking the excessive praise and joy of the original iphone launch.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Feb 26, 2011)

It was.


----------



## editor (Feb 27, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> It was.


Nope, it really wasn't. It was what hyperventilating fanboys were declaring the upcoming handset at the time.



> The much anticipated Apple iPhone is scheduled to release on June 29th...
> Bloggers have dubbed it the “Jesus phone;” some analysts have named it the “most anticipated consumer product in the history of time.” Though Apple is venturing into the competitive wireless market, investors are confident in the move.
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19297486/ns/business-cnbc_tv/





> THE blogosphere had already christened the iPhone, an allegedly revolutionary handset made by Apple, the “Jesus phone” weeks before it went on sale. The actual launch day, June 29th, became known as “iDay” among Apple cultists.
> http://www.economist.com/node/9443542?story_id=9443542


----------



## Sunray (Feb 27, 2011)

The stupidest name from deluded stupid people.


----------



## elbows (Feb 27, 2011)

Just because the name stuck and got widely reused in all sorts of contexts, does not mean the origins of the name was not taking the piss out of the hype, fervour etc, often in a self-mocking way by those who were keen on the phone but could recognise the absurdity of the hype and anticipation.

How can anyone possibly think the name is supposed to be serious.


----------



## editor (Feb 27, 2011)

elbows said:


> Just because the name stuck and got widely reused in all sorts of contexts, does not mean the origins of the name was not taking the piss out of the hype, fervour etc, often in a self-mocking way by those who were keen on the phone but could recognise the absurdity of the hype and anticipation.








I'm glad you can read everyone's minds on this, but  Sunray got it right. Some people really did get that deluded. But it's not that important now.


----------



## ovaltina (Feb 27, 2011)

I remember seeing some bloke on tv who had plastic surgery on his fingers to make it easier to type on the first iphone. That's dedication! Or psychosis.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 27, 2011)

I just wish people would stop using idiotic terms like 'death grip' tbh. They're as stupid as jesus phone (whatever it's varying contexts).


----------



## editor (Feb 27, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I just wish people would stop using idiotic terms like 'death grip' tbh. They're as stupid as jesus phone (whatever it's varying contexts).


Well it can kill the phone's data connection/call, so at least it makes some sort of sense.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 27, 2011)

editor said:


> Well it can kill the phone's data connection/call, so at least it makes some sort of sense.


 
So reception disruption would be a better less stupid sounding term? The point is can't we discuss these products without all the infantile shite?


----------



## editor (Feb 27, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So reception disruption would be a better less stupid sounding term? The point is can't we discuss these products without all the infantile shite?


I didn't realise that the phrase 'death grip' to describe holding the phone in such a manner as to kill the signal was "infantile shite," to be honest. It seems quite an apt description to my eyes.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 27, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> I remember seeing some bloke on tv who had plastic surgery on his fingers to make it easier to type on the first iphone. That's dedication! Or psychosis.


 Why would plastic surgery make it easier to type on an iPhone?


----------



## ovaltina (Feb 27, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Why would plastic surgery make it easier to type on an iPhone?


 
Whittling apparently... 
techgadgets.in/mobile-phones/2007/13/man-alters-his-finger-to-use-iphone-more-efficiently/


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 27, 2011)

ovaltina said:


> Whittling apparently...
> techgadgets.in/mobile-phones/2007/13/man-alters-his-finger-to-use-iphone-more-efficiently/


 
Just as I thought.  Complete rubbish.

http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/iphonethumb.asp


----------



## elbows (Feb 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Some people really did get that deluded.


 
What, deluded enough to think the phone was really the 2nd coming of Christ? No, rather plenty of people got overexcited about the phone hence the term Jesus Phone which takes the piss out of this phenomenon.


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2011)

elbows said:


> What, deluded enough to think the phone was really the 2nd coming of Christ? No, rather plenty of people got overexcited about the phone hence the term Jesus Phone which takes the piss out of this phenomenon.


Give it a rest, FFS.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 28, 2011)

editor said:


> I didn't realise that the phrase 'death grip' to describe holding the phone in such a manner as to kill the signal was "infantile shite," to be honest. It seems quite an apt description to my eyes.


 
It's no less hyperbolic than "Jesus Phone", tbh.

9 months and counting and not a connection drop in sight.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 28, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> It's no less hyperbolic than "Jesus Phone", tbh.
> 
> 9 months and counting and not a connection drop in sight.



Exactly, the main problem was buggy software cutting out when it thought it had lost the signal when it hadn't.  This was fixed.  Its still a technical issue if you lick your fingers squeeze in the points recommended to cause the issue but their position means it that does not happen very often.  People with really sweaty palms are the ones it might effect more.


----------



## elbows (Feb 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Give it a rest, FFS.


 
With pleasure.


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> 9 months and counting and not a connection drop in sight.


If you're in an area with low coverage the effect is very real. That's why the biggest non-profit, independent consumer testing site in the US still can't recommend the iPhone 4 to consumers. There's also ample real world reports of people suffering dropped calls because of this design flaw.


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2011)

Charlie Brooker doesn't like iTunes very much:


> They make you feel good, Apple products. The little touches: the rounded corners, the strokeable screens, the satisfying clunk as you fold the Macbook shut – it's serene. Untroubled. Like being on Valium.
> 
> Until, that is, you try to do something Apple doesn't want you to do. At which point you realise your shiny chum isn't on your side. It doesn't even understand sides. Only Apple: always Apple.
> 
> ...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 28, 2011)

Yep, he's spot on there.

I'm starting to lean towards wanting an iPad for work as there's an awful lot of rather clever pro audio apps coming out at the moment, but it's the thought of having to use iTunes that's putting me off.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 28, 2011)

editor said:


> If you're in an area with low coverage the effect is very real. That's why the biggest non-profit, independent consumer testing site in the US still can't recommend the iPhone 4 to consumers. There's also ample real world reports of people suffering dropped calls because of this design flaw.


 
Same old "rarr, rarr, rarr".

I'll take your internet link over my own experience when the moon's made of cheese, tbh.


----------



## paolo (Feb 28, 2011)

No problems for me either. And does anyone here give a flying f about Verizon handsets?


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> Same old "rarr, rarr, rarr".
> 
> I'll take your internet link over my own experience when the moon's made of cheese, tbh.


Your phone may work fabulously well but it's a bit weird to suggest that no one else on the planet is suffering this well documented and scientifically proven phenomenon.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 28, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep, he's spot on there.
> 
> I'm starting to lean towards wanting an iPad for work as there's an awful lot of rather clever pro audio apps coming out at the moment, but it's the thought of having to use iTunes that's putting me off.


 
You don't have to really use iTunes. Unless you want to back it up. I rarely plug mine in, apart from for backups. I get all my apps and stuff over wifi.


----------



## fen_boy (Feb 28, 2011)

I've not had signal problems with mine either.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Your phone may work fabulously well but it's a bit weird to suggest that no one else on the planet is suffering this well documented and scientifically proven phenomenon.


 
Why bother to listen to the loads people you know telling you about their experiences (at least 3 right there!), when you can get reports from strangers who may have agendas off the internet, eh?

Fucking consipraloons, believe any old thing.


----------



## Kanda (Feb 28, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> I've not had signal problems with mine either.


 
Nor have I. But we've all said this before, we've all had this argument, why the fuck is it coming up AGAIN? Over a Verizon handset? 

and as said:



Sunray said:


> What a load of bunk.   Because a problem that *nobody is reporting* might exist?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 28, 2011)

iTunes badly needs a rewrite/redesign. It's doing far too many tasks, and is version billion of rather old software. It is one of the few remaining apps for OSX that still uses the Carbon API (the one that made it easier to port OS9 apps over) instead of Cocoa (the nice new one) and still has all that cruft from when it was an OS9 app, which translates to the windows version which is just OSX itunes in a carbon wrapper. They need to seperate out the iDevice management and music library parts and make them separate apps IMO.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 28, 2011)

Kanda said:


> why the fuck is it coming up AGAIN? Over a Verizon handset?



Oh, _I wonder_...?


----------



## Crispy (Feb 28, 2011)

Kanda said:


> You don't have to really use iTunes. Unless you want to back it up. I rarely plug mine in, apart from for backups. I get all my apps and stuff over wifi.


 
This is true. I have plugged my ipad into my computer less than 20 times.


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> Why bother to listen to the loads people you know telling you about their experiences (at least 3 right there!), when you can get reports from strangers who may have agendas off the internet, eh?
> 
> Fucking consipraloons, believe any old thing.


Yes! They're all liars. The tests were faked. The user complaints are all false. The videos falsified. America's biggest independent consumer website is in on it too as is every other website that reported on the problem.

Because if unless something personally happens to you *it can not exist*.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 28, 2011)

Crispy said:


> This is true. I have plugged my ipad into my computer less than 20 times.


 
Hmmm, maybe I need to look again then, but by the very nature of what I'd need to do with one I'd be moving audio files on and off it all the time.

Why couldn't I just drag and drop stuff? It seems like such a pointless pile of shite doing it via another program, especially one as bloated as iTunes. I hate software that does too many things. One application per task is the way things should be done in my world


----------



## spacemonkey (Feb 28, 2011)

And underappreciated benefit of paying for spotify premium on the iPhone is that you _never_ have to use iTunes. Well worth £10/month.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Yes! They're all liars. The tests were faked. The user complaints are all false. The videos falsified. America's biggest independent consumer website is in on it too as is every other website that reported on the problem.
> 
> Because if unless something personally happens to you *it can not exist*.



Nice choice of words to put into my mouth. Well done, that's _exactly_ what I was saying, brains!  

And again, nice job of coming across as independent and unbiased. I bet it really comes across in your other writing, too...


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> And again, nice job of coming across as independent and unbiased. I bet it really comes across in your other writing, too...


I can see you're losing the argument here - after all, the only link I've posted up is to the US's biggest independent, non profit consumer site - but I'm quite surprised to see you stooping so low as to infer that I'm incapable of writing balanced articles professionally. And that's quite shameful stuff, really, so I'll leave you to it.


----------



## fractionMan (Feb 28, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/28/charlie-brooker-pfroblem-with-macs

lol


----------



## Kanda (Feb 28, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/feb/28/charlie-brooker-pfroblem-with-macs
> 
> lol


 
You missed Editor posting this on the previous page?


----------



## fractionMan (Feb 28, 2011)

I couldn't bear to read the smug iShit that's undoubtedly all over this thread


----------



## elbows (Feb 28, 2011)

I have no problems with itunes myself, but I've run into plenty of people at work who fall foul of the syncing rules and get very confused about what is happening. Sadly I would think that the success of itunes store and app store make Apple unlikely to switch to a more progressive strategy of enabling device to show up as a standard storage device & let people drag&drop whatever they like.

Inability to sync itunes wirelessly sucks. Method for uploading/downloading files within itunes that other iOS apps can use is well clunky. Expect Apple to eventually improve some of this stuff but quite possibly via some cloud-based itunes stuff which will come with its own drawbacks.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 28, 2011)

Er..... I never had any problems with my iPhone when i got a new mac 

But Ill tell you what, lets all sit around and slate a company because we've failed to ensure we have basic computer knowledge or done the research into the limitations of the hardware or the software that we're planning to use. I see this every day at work, on both mac and PC and it really grinds my gears.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 28, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> Same old "rarr, rarr, rarr".
> 
> I'll take your internet link over my own experience when the moon's made of cheese, tbh.



Indeed or the many people I've known with iPhone 4 who've had not one problem.



paolo999 said:


> No problems for me either. And does anyone here give a flying f about Verizon handsets?


 
Well quite, we seem to spend a lot of time talking about US consumer experience on here...


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 28, 2011)

I've plugged my iPhone into new computers and iTunes has never insisted that everything on the phone is deleted (on a PC, but I see no reason why a Mac would be different). As long as you're using the same account it should work fine. 

As for the word "sync", what else would you call it? 

I don't think iTunes is as bad as some people make out. I've used it for a while now and hardly ever had a problem


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 28, 2011)

That Brooker article reminds me of things a certain poster who used to frequent these boards used to write. Again and again and again.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 28, 2011)

Is it similar to his last whingey one, that transpired to be that he's a cack-handed _user_?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 28, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> Is it similar to his last whingey one, that transpired to be that he's a cack-handed _user_?


 
Yeah, it's all "oh what does sync mean, nobody says sync" and some other pedestrian stuff you've heard before that I can't even be bothered commenting on. It's along the lines of his other recent work, tbh, in terms of being "will this do" semi-outrage on topics other people did years ago and also funnily.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Feb 28, 2011)

Thought so.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 28, 2011)

Brooker's always been pretty much average imo so this shit is nothing new...


----------



## Sunray (Feb 28, 2011)

Crispy said:


> iTunes badly needs a rewrite/redesign. It's doing far too many tasks, and is version billion of rather old software. It is one of the few remaining apps for OSX that still uses the Carbon API (the one that made it easier to port OS9 apps over) instead of Cocoa (the nice new one) and still has all that cruft from when it was an OS9 app, which translates to the windows version which is just OSX itunes in a carbon wrapper. They need to seperate out the iDevice management and music library parts and make them separate apps IMO.



This is the sort of statement that means that its probably going to happen sooner rather than later.  All the updates of recent times have been very little apart from that instantly forgettable social music thing.


----------



## tarannau (Feb 28, 2011)

Charlie Brooker's ranted about macs and Apple for as long as I can remember. It's more surprising that someone (or two) tripped over themselves in the haste to post up the link to tirade no.x here

Actually, it's not surprising at all is it?


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2011)

tarannau said:


> Charlie Brooker's ranted about macs and Apple for as long as I can remember. It's more surprising that someone (or two) tripped over themselves in the haste to post up the link to tirade no.x here
> 
> Actually, it's not surprising at all is it?


It was an entertaining Mac-related article that was linked to on a Mac-related thread here, so I'm sure how anyone has been 'tripped up.' Perhaps you might explain? 

Oh, and you are aware that he uses a MacBook as well as an iPhone, yes? Mind you, he has a valid point about iTunes.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 28, 2011)

I opened iTunes tonight, dragged and dropped two albums in, synced my iPhone (which updated my podcasts and apps) with zero issue. *shrugs* iTunes isn't amazing but it's not as complicated as made out at times...


----------



## grit (Mar 1, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Nor have I. But we've all said this before, we've all had this argument, why the fuck is it coming up AGAIN? Over a Verizon handset?


 
This should be completely fucking obvious, and it is the reason I dont really participate in these threads any more.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 1, 2011)

editor said:


> Oh, and you are aware that he uses a MacBook as well as an iPhone, yes? Mind you, he has a valid point about iTunes.


 
Perhaps he should go buy a PC and an THC (*cough*  ), then.

iTunes is difficult to use. If you're brain-damaged, perhaps... If you can't multi-select and drag n drop, computers probably aren't for you.


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> iTunes is difficult to use. If you're brain-damaged, perhaps... If you can't multi-select and drag n drop, computers probably aren't for you.


Ah, so it can _only_ be the user's fault, yes? I wish I'd had some of this infallible software because my iTunes fucked up as well.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 1, 2011)

Whilst I'm just _positive_ that you're simply far beyond making even the rarest of mistakes (   ), I'm actually talking about the sneery chap who wrote the article and has (as discussed on this very thread) previously demonstrated he's not the best at this...


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> Whilst I'm just _positive_ that you're simply far beyond making even the rarest of mistakes (   ), I'm actually talking about the sneery chap who wrote the article and has (as discussed on this very thread) previously demonstrated he's not the best at this...


I can see where you're coming from now. You like to dismiss or make sneery comments about anyone posting up anything less than positive experiences, if anything goes wrong it must be their fault, or they can be waved away as _haterz_ or liars, even when they've spent considerable amounts of money on their products.


----------



## elbows (Mar 1, 2011)

Apples traditional reputation for making stuff that is intuitive and easier to use was always overblown, but its another good reason why the 'users are thick/not fit to compute' line of defence is misplaced and bogus.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 1, 2011)

This thread has got a little OCD in terms of the iTunes discussion...can we perhaps move on? It's not like we don't know each others opinions inside out by now is it?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 1, 2011)

editor said:


> I can see where you're coming from now.



I seriously doubt that.



> You like to dismiss or make sneery comments about anyone posting up anything less than positive experiences



You _utter fucking hypocrite_!!   

Do you ever even read your posts? 



> if anything goes wrong it must be their fault, or they can be waved away as _haterz_ or liars, even when they've spent considerable amounts of money on their products.


 


Ignore what I've actually said ("I'm talking specifically about Booker") and plaster your conceited, condescending opinion all over it again, why don't you?


----------



## sim667 (Mar 1, 2011)

1. Make iPhone playlist
2. Put tunes for iPhone in playlist
3. Plug in iPhone
4. Select playlist to sync under 'music' tab
5. Press sync button

I suppose you might find that hard if you were illiterate or had no hands.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 1, 2011)

I rest my case.


----------



## elbows (Mar 1, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I suppose you might find that hard if you were illiterate or had no hands.


 
People who are not extremely computer literate are often used to the concept of having devices appear as drives, and of dragging & dropping stuff from one drive to another. Anything different to that is going to confuse some of them.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Mar 1, 2011)

Perhaps they could try reading the instructions...

Nah, probably not.


----------



## elbows (Mar 1, 2011)

Part of being intuitive means using paradigms that are well established, that people are used to.

In any case itunes has a few too many different ways of setting up syncing of stuff, eg automatic, only stuff you tick, stuff you drag&drop, etc. Throw in the account issues that are there for reasons of anti-piracy and the picture starts to get a tad messy. Its not an insanely huge problem, but its a real thing and I wont dismiss it.


----------



## editor (Mar 1, 2011)

stupid dogbot said:


> Ignore what I've actually said ("I'm talking specifically about Booker") and plaster your conceited, condescending opinion all over it again, why don't you?


edit: I can't be arsed with this liar.


----------



## gabi (Mar 1, 2011)

Brooker's on the money there.. itunes is a heap of stinking shit.. i watched a friend of mine who's not particlarly tech literate try and use it and she almost shat herself thinking all her files were being wiped. for the rest of us geeks its not really an issue but intutitive design is sposed to be apple's USP.

my biggest beef with apple though (besides the weird pettiness about Flash) is finder..... why?? file management is the one thing windows wins hands down at. when are they gonna sort that one out?


----------



## Crispy (Mar 1, 2011)

I can see where the itunes dseign philosophy comes from - don't worry about files and folders. It's just "your music, don't worry we'll take care of it" - unfortunately, this concept is in direct opposition to the mindset that most people have already built up about what a file is and where things 'live' on their computer.

It's taken to the extreme on the iDevices. There is no file explorer at all. There are apps and they have libraries - the data itself is completely abstracted. I think Apple would like for the data to be abstracted on the desktop too, but that's not how millions of people have learned how a desktop works.

The intrinsic dis/advantages of the two approaches is a separate argument, however.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 1, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The intrinsic dis/advantages of the two approaches is a separate argument, however.



Ideally it'd be a different thread two so it stops contaminating this one with tedious merry go round 'debate'...


----------



## Bungle73 (Mar 1, 2011)

I think I've worked out this Charlie Booker iTunes wanting to delete everything off his iPhone on a new PC thing happened.  He probably didn't backup his iTunes folder on the old PC and transfer it onto the new one, telling iTunes where to find it. I've always done this when moving PCs and never had the problem he reported.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 3, 2011)

*AnandTech research shows Verizon iPhone 4 'death grip' reports are overblown*

I doubt we'll see this being hyped up by the anti apple brigade...



> Consumer Reports tested the Verizon iPhone 4 using the same methodology as the original GSM version, and with the same results: signal strength drops if the iPhone 4 is gripped in a certain fashion, commonly known as the "death grip." As a result of its testing, Consumer Reports decided it couldn't recommend the Verizon iPhone 4, either.
> 
> Similar testing done by AnandTech throws some cold water on Consumer Reports' findings, however. Not long after the Verizon iPhone 4's launch, AnandTech found the Verizon iPhone 4's "death grip is essentially mitigated."



And what's this?



> As for the *"held naturally"* numbers, the average signal loss among the other models was 7.4 dB compared to 15.5 dB for the Verizon iPhone 4. AnandTech notes that the average dB loss gets skewed downward because of relatively low signal degradation in the Nexus S and two Droid models


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2011)

But then again:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/03/01/death_grip_research/



> The so-called 'death grip' effect, in which a user's hand touching a smartphone antenna degrades its radio connections - a major issue for the iPhone 4 with its external antennae - is real and is a serious problem, according to British boffins researching the matter.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 3, 2011)

The key issue of real world usage doesn't appear to be accounted for going by that article. Which is kinda the point, you can get all kinds of wacky results when you're studying something but how it works in the real world is another matter. More to the point, if this reception issue was a great as it's been covered how did the phone still sell millions and not have tons returned (and I'm talking 100000s not twenty)?

With the xbox 360 the failure rate in the real world was very real and the reputation for failure deserved, I still don't see that the reception is really that big a deal beyond the usual anti apple types or idiot bloggers seeking to raise their traffic through the roof.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 3, 2011)

It's not a paper about the iPhone anyway, it's about interference between the type of antenna and flesh - which can occur with all sorts of phones of course. Obviously it's been spun to appear to be about the iPhone though.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 3, 2011)

I think it's a great example of investigations getting the results wanted, from both sides


----------



## cybertect (Mar 3, 2011)

editor said:


> Charlie Brooker doesn't like iTunes very much:



mrs c read out that article to me a couple of days ago. My ears pricked up when I heard this passage.




			
				Charlie Brooker said:
			
		

> Apple continually attempts to scrape even more money from anything that might conceivably pass through iTunes' tight, leathery anus. Take ebooks. Apple's own iBook reader app may be nauseatingly pretty, but it's not a patch on Amazon's Kindle, which, far from being just a standalone machine, is a surprisingly nifty cross-platform "cloud" system that lets you read books on a variety of devices, including the iPhone and iPad. It even remembers what page you were on, regardless of whichever machine you were reading it on last. (It does that by "syncing" – but we'll forgive it that, because a) it happens seamlessly and b) *you never, ever lose any of your purchases*.)
> 
> ...
> 
> So I no longer hate Apple products. In fact I use them every day. *But I never feel like I own them. More like I'm renting them from Skynet.*



I guess he didn't hear about Amazon's disappearing _Orwell_ event?

Amazon vanishes 1984 from citizen Kindles




			
				The Register said:
			
		

> In an irony-filled moment that underlines the flaws of our increasingly digital society, Amazon has removed George Orwell's 1984 from America's Kindle ebook readers.
> 
> As noticed by one loyal Reg reader - and by the ebullient David Pogue of The New York Times - Amazon vanished the Kindle incarnations of both 1984 and Animal Farm after their copyright holder notified the company that the books were being been sold without its permission.
> 
> ...


----------



## sim667 (Mar 3, 2011)

sim667 said:


> 1. Make iPhone playlist
> 2. Put tunes for iPhone in playlist
> 3. Plug in iPhone
> 4. Select playlist to sync under 'music' tab
> ...


 
Infact I had to sync someones ipod last night, and she's got a smaller library than her ipod and the steps were even simpler (fuck knows how she didnt work it out, I think she just started panicing because she didnt know what 'sync' meant....... but tbf she didnt know you could right click on stuff til last night either (windows not mac)).....

Anyway the steps for this were.
1. Plug iPod in
2. When asked if you would like to sync, click 'Yes'

If worst came to worst, you could probably get through that process by continuously mashing the return button with your face.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Mar 5, 2011)

Can I moan?
I'm really truly sick to death of the shitty shitty earphones that came with my iPhone. They are amongst the worst earphones I've ever had; poor quality, shitty sound, bad shape and they keep falling out. I've had it with them and am going to buy a decent pair of in ear ones but I don't see why I should fucking have to when I paid a lot of money for the stinking stuff. grumblegrumblegrumble 
Also, apple's in ear ones cost £70, admittedly they have the hands free( which doesn't interest me as I'm old fashioned) but for that money you coukd buy a set of Bose and get much better quality of sound.


----------



## grit (Mar 5, 2011)

cybertect said:


> mrs c read out that article to me a couple of days ago. My ears pricked up when I heard this passage.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Apples and bowling balls.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 5, 2011)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Bose... quality of sound



Bose make bloody awful sounding products, you can far far better for the money.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Mar 5, 2011)

Every review I've seen says they're really good quality but I'd be sure to try them out first of course


----------



## paolo (Mar 5, 2011)

Sennheisser (sp?) in-ear are fab.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 6, 2011)

Yup they are the best at their price point IMO.


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2011)

These are the best iPhone/mobile headphones I've ever used. http://www.wirefresh.com/v-moda-remix-remote-earphones-for-the-iphone-3gsipod-review/

And I frigging well lost them


----------



## Crispy (Mar 6, 2011)

Sennheiser cx400. Do it. Do it now.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 6, 2011)

I've had Sennheisers, V-Modas and Sony but now use Klipsch S2's. 
They go deep into the ear and sound great. Much less likely to fail than the V-Modas, 3 pairs of which all failed within 3 months of purchase. 
The S2's can be had for around £20.


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> I've had Sennheisers, V-Modas and Sony but now use Klipsch S2's.
> They go deep into the ear and sound great. Much less likely to fail than the V-Modas, 3 pairs of which all failed within 3 months of purchase.
> The S2's can be had for around £20.


My V-Modas were ruddy ace until I lost 'em. I tried out the Audio-Technica ATH-CK400i in-ear headphones and they were really awful. I'm now back to using the Sennheiser CX550 MkII headphones with a slightly bulky Griffin adapter.

I see the Klipsch S2s are £27 on Amazon. Hmmm...
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=0ZX71P1W31BVAXPB8EVJ

These look lovely for £80:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=0ZX71P1W31BVAXPB8EVJ


----------



## fen_boy (Mar 6, 2011)

There are a lot of dodgy fake Sennheisers about. Get them from somewhere reputable (not amazon marketplace or ebay)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 6, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Sennheiser cx400. Do it. Do it now.


 
Yep these are great.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 6, 2011)

editor said:


> My V-Modas were ruddy ace until I lost 'em. I tried out the Audio-Technica ATH-CK400i in-ear headphones and they were really awful. I'm now back to using the Sennheiser CX550 MkII headphones with a slightly bulky Griffin adapter.
> 
> I see the Klipsch S2s are £27 on Amazon. Hmmm...
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/...m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=0ZX71P1W31BVAXPB8EVJ
> ...


 
Well done on the SEO, searching for Sennheiser CX550 MkII gives you the Wirefresh article as the first result.


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well done on the SEO, searching for Sennheiser CX550 MkII gives you the Wirefresh article as the first result.


After being slammed hard by the Google Algorithm-bomb last week, I'm grateful for any small remaining victories


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 6, 2011)

editor said:


> After being slammed hard by the Google Algorithm-bomb last week, I'm grateful for any small remaining victories


 
I hear ya. I've been watching the web site I manages' traffic like a fucking hawk all week to see if the changes have had any negative affect too...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 6, 2011)

Custom moulded Ultimate Ears in ear monitors ftw


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 6, 2011)

Tbh I find in-ear headphones a bit annoying. I have some but I never use them, they feel alien and squidgy in my ears and I get every footstep I make echoed up into the music. I'd actually prefer a good set of buds.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 6, 2011)

I must have near ninja like ability then, I'm 6 foot 3, heavy set and clump like a Rhino when I walk and never hear my footsteps...


----------



## sim667 (Mar 7, 2011)

Has anyone had a problem with the itunes 10.2 release? Upgraded, plugged into my phone to update, and the phone charges but is not recognised as a device in itunes.

E2a: Resolved, install itunes from the .dmg rather than software updater.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2011)

*New notification system for iPhone/ iOS*

Interesting idea. Was thinking just the other day that I never use the Spotlight thing and it's taking up a whole screen that could be used in another more useful way...



> Now, mock-ups of how the notification system should work on iOS are nothing new. But the system Shawn Hickman has mocked up on his site today looks damn near perfect given how I use the iPhone. Gone are the lame, text-message like Push Notification pop-ups. They’re replaced by a new notification bar that appears at the bottom of the screen when a new notification comes in.
> 
> Okay, you might think: the last thing the iPhone needs is a #dickbar. But it’s much more than that — and it actually contains useful information, unlike the #dickbar. While bottom notification alert gives the latest notification coming in, the real key is the new left-most screen, where all of the recent notifications are held for you to go through. Yes, Hickman’s idea is to replace the Spotlight Search area with in iOS this new Notifications area. “Spotlight is a cool feature that I rarely use. That space can be used much more effectively,” Hickman writes. I totally agree.












Wouldn't surprise me if Apple announce a new notification along with the next iPhone.






Oh yeah if you fancy getting your blood pressure rising in outrage over yet another Apple device rumour, check out this one about the iPhone 5! Funny enough I was talking about the idea of having a metal back but using the logo as the reception point a little while ago...


----------



## Sunray (Mar 7, 2011)

That identical to the original iPhone, so I doubt it.


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

Apple hired the bloke who did the class-leading webOS notification system, so no doubt they'll be nicking, sorry _adapting_ that soon.
Notifications really are rubbish on iOS.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 7, 2011)

Sunray said:


> That identical to the original iPhone, so I doubt it.


 
Damn, where's your outrage??


----------



## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh yeah if you fancy getting your blood pressure rising in outrage over yet another Apple device rumour, check out this one about the iPhone 5! Funny enough I was talking about the idea of having a metal back but using the logo as the reception point a little while ago...





> A complete case redesign for the iPhone 5 isn't beyond the realm of possibility, but personally, I'll remain skeptical until there are corroborating reports from at least one other source.


Translates into, "I really haven't a fucking clue what I'm posting here, but it'll probably drive some traffic my way."


----------



## sim667 (Mar 8, 2011)

Has anyone read about how they're planning on charging for personal hotspot data on o2?

Im tempted to get it for my ipad.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 8, 2011)

I can only assume its the same as tethering.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 8, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I can only assume its the same as tethering.


 
£15 for 3 gb iirc.


bugger that.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 8, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Tbh I find in-ear headphones a bit annoying. I have some but I never use them, they feel alien and squidgy in my ears and I get every footstep I make echoed up into the music. I'd actually prefer a good set of buds.


 
I can't wear them, they hurt my right ear for some reason, and I must have super-sensitive hearing because I can hear every pulse in my veins, never mind booming footsteps!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 8, 2011)

Charging to use the hotspot feature? Fuck that.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 8, 2011)

Can anyone recomend any cool looking iphone4 cases? I seem to have split mine.

Tempted by a capsule rebel nude.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 9, 2011)

iPhone with 64gb storage? Yes please!!

Link


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 9, 2011)

iOS 4.3 is out...and it's 423 mbs!


----------



## Sunray (Mar 10, 2011)

sim667 said:


> £15 for 3 gb iirc.
> 
> 
> bugger that.


 
Its 7.66 for a paltry 500Mb.  500Mb is nothing if you use a laptop to browse.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 10, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Its 7.66 for a paltry 500Mb.  500Mb is nothing if you use a laptop to browse.


 
I was thinking for laptop, ipad etc.....

ill find a cheaper solution


----------



## Sunray (Mar 10, 2011)

I see that with the release of iOS 4.3, the iPhone 3G has officially been dropped into the Apple archives.

16Gb Still go for the 160 quid mark on ebay


----------



## sim667 (Mar 10, 2011)

Has anyone actually got home sharing working on 4.3? It wont do it for me


----------



## elbows (Mar 11, 2011)

Yay the iOS 4.3 itunes home sharing stuff is as handy as it promised to be, so overdue.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 11, 2011)

Anyone got a 3GS and running 4.3? How's your phones performance been?


----------



## editor (Mar 15, 2011)

Looks like you're going to have to pay more to use the tethering.

http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...i-hotspot-which-networks-make-you-pay--934765


----------



## Cid (Mar 15, 2011)

On the earphones subject Shure have a very tempting new model coming out... At £100 it's probably at the top of what anyone here would conceive of paying (except the Groke iirc), but it's low-mid price in their range. Certainly interesting to see a detachable cable for that price (or it is for me, I wear earphones all day in the workshop which makes cables a weak point) and the sound isolation on Shures is phenomenal (again, possibly not so relevant if you're not in a workshop)... Cable can also be moulded to ear shape so should be really comfortable. Dynamic driver so probably good for bass... I've generally been impressed with Shure sound quality anyway.







Also available in clear, but I reckon that might start to get a bit skanky looking. You need to buy a separate cable for smart phones too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 15, 2011)

editor said:


> Looks like you're going to have to pay more to use the tethering.
> 
> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...i-hotspot-which-networks-make-you-pay--934765



Fucking networks...this should just run on your data tariff...


----------



## editor (Mar 15, 2011)

Cid said:


> Also available in clear, but I reckon that might start to get a bit skanky looking. You need to buy a separate cable for smart phones too.


Love the idea, but it looks like you might end up with a mile of cable...


----------



## Cid (Mar 15, 2011)

The old models have a mini jack where the cable splits so you can change the cable length. Not sure if these ones do.


----------



## editor (Mar 15, 2011)

What's the lumpy bit in the lead (half concealed in the coil?) And does the control lead only sit on the one cable?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 15, 2011)

Lump looks like where the two sides join, with the control only being on one side.


----------



## editor (Mar 15, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> Lump looks like where the two sides join, with the control only being on one side.


 Not sure that I like the look of that arrangement The control bit looks quite bulky to be dangling from one lug 'ole.


----------



## Cid (Mar 16, 2011)

Yeah, I did wonder about that myself... One of those things you can't really tell until you've tried it I suppose.


----------



## dlx1 (Mar 20, 2011)

*?* Anyway to get VLC app back on Itouch.
didn't sink with apps with itunes. Didn't know


----------



## Sunray (Mar 21, 2011)

Eh?

If you have an app it will continue to be on there until you actually delete it from the phone or itunes wipes the phone.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 21, 2011)

Just got my iphone 4


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2011)

How are you finding the rampant issues of bad reception?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 21, 2011)

not stuck it on yet, still backing up the 3G... taking fucking ages 

use my work phone mostly for calls anyway, this will be for playing games in the loo etc... lol


----------



## sim667 (Mar 21, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How are you finding the rampant issues of bad reception?


 
Is this the antennae issue that ive never met anyone it effects?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Is this the antennae issue that ive never met anyone it effects?


 
Yep the one and the same, I know quite a few people with an iPhone 4 and not one has had an issue. In fact I don't even ask them now as the odd looks I get got a little embarrassing.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 21, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep the one and the same, I know quite a few people with an iPhone 4 and not one has had an issue. In fact I don't even ask them now as the odd looks I get got a little embarrassing.


 
I've tried to recreate it too, had no problems......


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I've tried to recreate it too, had no problems......


 
I did the same with a friends and had no issue either.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 21, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I've tried to recreate it too, had no problems......


 
I find wrapping your hands around any phone tends to work.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 30, 2011)

Heh this is neat, no need to buy an iPhone 4 if you want to edit video on your iPhone!









> Vimeo has released an iPhone app that allows you upload, edit, manage and watch your videos right from your iPhone. Here are some of the highlights:
> 
> Capture video with focus control and grid alignment
> Combine, edit, and trim your videos
> ...


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2011)

It's clever alright and I'm sure it's capable of producing great results if you can be arsed, but I wouldn't particularly fancy trying to edit a movie on any phone.


----------



## Crispy (Mar 30, 2011)

I'm more excited about being able to browse and play Vimeo content in an app. If you can browse by playlist/channel then that's fantastic. There are some very well curated playlists out there and some really good content. Vimeo is youtube with Standards


----------



## Sunray (Mar 30, 2011)

editor said:


> It's clever alright and I'm sure it's capable of producing great results if you can be arsed, but I wouldn't particularly fancy trying to edit a movie on any phone.


 
I suggest you have a go at iMovie, its quite good given the small real estate.  Not exactly bristling with features though.


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I suggest you have a go at iMovie, its quite good given the small real estate.  Not exactly bristling with features though.


I've had a go at iMovie and I wouldn't like to do anything but the most basic of video edits on it - and even then only if I couldn't get to a laptop/desktop.


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2011)

Well I'm finally getting to see how smartphones like the iphone 4 go down with people I know who would not normally be interested in a smartphone at all. My place of work finally managed to get a load of iphones via their business contract with Orange, and I have been rushing around setting them up for days now. Too early to judge how this great test will go, although I am pleased to hear that many users with kids are confident that their children will be able to provide a lot of the technical support


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 5, 2011)

elbows said:


> Well I'm finally getting to see how smartphones like the iphone 4 go down with people I know who would not normally be interested in a smartphone at all. My place of work finally managed to get a load of iphones via their business contract with Orange, and I have been rushing around setting them up for days now. Too early to judge how this great test will go, although I am pleased to hear that many users with kids are confident that their children will be able to provide a lot of the technical support


 
Look forward to hearing more, I'm interested in how an iPhone deployment like this pans out...


----------



## Cid (Apr 13, 2011)

Cid said:


> On the earphones subject Shure have a very tempting new model coming out... At £100 it's probably at the top of what anyone here would conceive of paying (except the Groke iirc), but it's low-mid price in their range. Certainly interesting to see a detachable cable for that price (or it is for me, I wear earphones all day in the workshop which makes cables a weak point) and the sound isolation on Shures is phenomenal (again, possibly not so relevant if you're not in a workshop)... Cable can also be moulded to ear shape so should be really comfortable. Dynamic driver so probably good for bass... I've generally been impressed with Shure sound quality anyway.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Turned up today... First impressions are very good.

Build quality is excellent, it's exactly the same as their top-end model (535, sells for around £350). Some reviews suggest that replaceable cables (on other brands, the Shures haven't really been out long enough to be fully tested) wear faster than those directly wired to the ear piece but my SE210s were fucked after 4 years of regular use (warranty is only 2 years) and the quality of these cables seems significantly higher. The place where I can see potential for damage is at the Y bit which on the SE210s was a minijack (so any jerk would just release that)... Only time will tell. The Kevlar ends aren't bad, they're never going to be as convenient to put in your ears as your basic apple earphones though... However this is not really the point, the fit is really good with the body sitting flush to the ear so you can comfortably lie down with them in. The ones I have are the same translucent black as above, quite nice to be able to look inside.

Sound is provided by a single dynamic driver which gives phenomenal bass... It falls down slightly on higher frequencies and with more congested music, but that's not surprising given the technology. Personally not tried anything from higher price brackets but most reviews suggest they perform above the price bracket. The effectiveness of the sound isolation might actually put some people off, it seems even better than the 210s (although, as I said, my 210s are a bit fucked, so that might be part of it). If you want to cut yourself off from the world around you they're about as good as it gets though. Quality listening through one ear isn't bad mind you, so that's an option.

They come with a selection of sleeves for your ear, same as these:






You can also get custom ones which are extremely expensive... Personally use the foam ones which give a really good acoustic seal. Actually the rubber ones might give slightly better attenuation with your environment, might give them a try at some point. They also come with an incredibly exciting pouch and cleaning stick (which is easy to loose). I don't have the smart phone cable.

Overall happy with them, they cost me £86.95 iirc which is a lot for some people, but worth it if you work in loud environments/travel a lot and don't need attenuation. Also probably appreciated by fellow commuters in that they are pretty much silent.


----------



## kittyP (Apr 13, 2011)

Gah! Help please? 

I have the facebook app for my iphone but I don't like it, I much prefer browsing it as desktop in safari. 
It always changed to mobile function when I clicked 'home' but there was a little option right at the bottom to view back as desktop. 
Now it's gone and I don't know how to fix it back. 

Any help greatly appreciated


----------



## dlx1 (Apr 14, 2011)

*Question *
My iTouch doesn't last a day battery dead Im playing music and games not using it all day every hour and I not got lots of apps running.
Its a new one this year iTouch4 think it called. 

ANYWAY are  the new iphone do there battery last longer new improved ? 
Also looking at Samsung Galaxy Ace lot cheaper then Iphone are all smart phone battery life crap now?


----------



## pk (Apr 14, 2011)

BBC News has just decided to issue iPhone 4 handsets to all journo staff, for shooting & filing stories.

Negotiated some deal with Apple. Great news for everyone except actual trained camera crews, given the HD video apps that are perfectly capable of shooting broadcast footage.

This is huge!!


----------



## pk (Apr 14, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Is this the antennae issue that ive never met anyone it effects?


 
Maybe it's a Yank thing. Never had a problem with mine, and only ever used it without a case so far (six months).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 14, 2011)

pk said:


> BBC News has just decided to issue iPhone 4 handsets to all journo staff, for shooting & filing stories.
> 
> Negotiated some deal with Apple. Great news for everyone except actual trained camera crews, given the HD video apps that are perfectly capable of shooting broadcast footage.
> 
> This is huge!!


 
That's pretty big...be interesting to see if Apple gets it's devices into other media orgs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 14, 2011)

*iOS gains ad share from Android in March, remains hottest app platform*

Interesting that despite losing market share Apple is actually increasing is ad share...








> Android smartphones still lead iOS devices in terms of market share, with the bad robot now accounting for 48% of the market and Apple devices picking up 31%. Advertisers seem to be happier with iOS devices, since Apple's ad impressions are now growing at 29% month-to-month compared with 23% for Android.
> 
> Apple's iOS platform generated 47% of total revenues from application sales, with Android falling behind at 36%. RIM's BlackBerry trailed well behind the pack at a paltry 7% of total revenues. Gaming apps led the way for all platforms with 37% of total app sales


----------



## Sunray (Apr 14, 2011)

pk said:


> BBC News has just decided to issue iPhone 4 handsets to all journo staff, for shooting & filing stories.
> 
> Negotiated some deal with Apple. Great news for everyone except actual trained camera crews, given the HD video apps that are perfectly capable of shooting broadcast footage.
> 
> This is huge!!


 
I fully hope its post processed anti-shaky cam.  The iP4 gets it quite bad and I think its nearly unwatchable at times.


----------



## Badgers (Apr 15, 2011)

Sorry if it has been asked/posted before but easiest way to unlock iPhone 4 from Three network


----------



## sim667 (Apr 15, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Sorry if it has been asked/posted before but easiest way to unlock iPhone 4 from Three network


 
I've not tested this, but it probably works fine



Jail breaking with spirit is what I've found to be the easiest


----------



## Bungle73 (Apr 15, 2011)

JailbreakMe.com doesn't work if you're running the latest version of iOS.  You need to do this to jailbreak: http://www.youtube.com/user/lockergnome#p/u/7/43TJPqZTe7o


----------



## Badgers (Apr 15, 2011)

Cheers, will have a look


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 16, 2011)

pk said:


> the HD video apps that are perfectly capable of shooting broadcast footage.


 
Are they fuck.

If you stick it on one of these however:

http://www.creativevideo.co.uk/inde...ty+HD+acquisition+on+Apple+iPhone+4//autoplay


----------



## Sunray (Apr 17, 2011)

Why the fuck would you want to do that!!!!????

That surely is an old April fools video.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 17, 2011)

Instant solid state camera, can do basic edit with imovie if required or just upload straight to the newsroom where they can edit quicker and get to screens faster. Makes sense to me.


----------



## Sunray (Apr 17, 2011)

Have you seen the vids that an iphone4 makes?  Its got this unique shake i find quite annoying.


----------



## editor (Apr 26, 2011)

The white Apple iPhone4 is about to go on sale zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/26/apple-gets-its-white-iphone-4-ducks-in-a-row-ahead-of-launch/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 26, 2011)

Er ok. What's good about it?


----------



## fen_boy (Apr 26, 2011)

It's white and errrrr, that's it.


----------



## editor (Apr 26, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Er ok. What's good about it?


It's an IPHONE! And OMG! It's in WHITE!!!!!!

*order tent from Milletts ready for three day queue outside store. 
*toughens hands for in-shop high fives


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 26, 2011)

It's white. Man I don't even know why we're even posting about it...let alone why this is news....


----------



## elbows (Apr 26, 2011)

Its newsworthy because of how amusingly late it is. In the hyper-accelerated world of smartphone evolution it feels like its years late, though of course it isnt really that long.


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Er ok. What's good about it?


This fanboy prick managed to froth a whole page's worth of iJoy after finding himself in a restaurant CLOSE TO A WHITE iPHONE!!!! OMG!! 

Look! An eight month phone that now comes in a different colour plastic sleeve!!!! Well worth a sneaky picture.

http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/27/white-iphone/


----------



## TitanSound (Apr 27, 2011)

editor said:


> This fanboy prick managed to froth a whole page's worth of iJoy after finding himself in a restaurant CLOSE TO A WHITE iPHONE!!!! OMG!!
> 
> Look! An eight month phone that now comes in a different colour plastic sleeve!!!! Well worth a sneaky picture.
> 
> http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/27/white-iphone/


 
He should not be let loose on a tech site like that. Worst article I have ever seen!


----------



## Sunray (Apr 27, 2011)

I could have had a white phone ages ago and I expect that you'd not be able tell the difference. Just need to rip the phone apart and buy the right bits.

I actually would like a red or purple one and this may well happen post guarantee.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 27, 2011)

Some guy bought the white component paint which and was doing custom white phones ages ago. If I recall Apple (unsurprisingly) didn't like it.

Personally I'd like a silver brushed aluminium look. White is a bit toy-like no?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 27, 2011)

skyscraper101 said:


> Some guy bought the white component paint which and was doing custom white phones ages ago. If I recall Apple (unsurprisingly) didn't like it.
> 
> Personally I'd like a silver brushed aluminium look. White is a bit toy-like no?


 
Yep I've never liked the white iPhone, and agree a brushed metal one would probably look the nicest (and fit design wise with the iMac, iPad look)...


----------



## Hollis (Apr 27, 2011)

Any opinions on the Samsung Galaxy Ace versus HTC Desire - both on offer on Virgin.. 

Also how much mobile web does one get through in a month - would 500 MB be enough assuming one is only using for "social networking" purposes, and not downloading loads of movies/music.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 27, 2011)

Those are not iphones


----------



## Hollis (Apr 27, 2011)

I give up!  What the hell are they then?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 27, 2011)

Android phones.


----------



## Hollis (Apr 27, 2011)

What's that mean?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 27, 2011)

Hollis said:


> What's that mean?


 
The software that runs the phone is made by Google, it's called Android...


----------



## Hollis (Apr 27, 2011)

Okay - thanks I now understand the difference between iphones, android phones and 'smartphones' and will fuck off.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 27, 2011)

Hollis said:


> Okay - thanks I now understand the difference between iphones, android phones and 'smartphones' and will fuck off.


 
Heh no probs, happy phone hunting.


----------



## Hollis (Apr 27, 2011)

yeah - I feel 10 years younger all ready..


----------



## editor (May 4, 2011)

There ain't 'alf a lot of iPhone adverts appearing on TV at the moment. Maybe they're feeling the heat from the competition?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 4, 2011)

There are? Haven't really noticed a rise tbh, I have noticed that the iPad seems to be advertised in every single bloody break though!


----------



## TitanSound (May 4, 2011)

editor said:


> There ain't 'alf a lot of iPhone adverts appearing on TV at the moment.


 
"If you don't have an iPhone, well, you don't have an iPhone"

Fuck off. I know I don't have one. I don't want one you smug bastard.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 5, 2011)

Interesting iphone only (at the moment) app for saving on data while abroad

http://www.independent.co.uk/travel...osts-for-international-travelers-2278765.html


----------



## sim667 (May 5, 2011)

TitanSound said:


> "If you don't have an iPhone, well, you don't have an iPhone"
> 
> Fuck off. I know I don't have one. I don't want one you smug bastard.


 
I thought that when i saw the advert and i do have an iPhone!


----------



## Lazy Llama (May 5, 2011)

iOS 4.3.3 is available through iTunes in case anyone missed the news stories

Contains the "LocationGate" fixes.


----------



## editor (May 9, 2011)

In case you've ever wondered, here's what goes into iTunes ludicrously long 56 page terms and conditions that you say 'yes' to:
http://www.wirefresh.com/apples-ludicrously-long-56-page-itunes-legal-terms-analysed/


----------



## fractionMan (May 9, 2011)

Which second hand iphone should I buy.  Looking for the cheapest not shit option.


----------



## Crispy (May 9, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> Which second hand iphone should I buy.  Looking for the cheapest not shit option.


 
3GS is the "not shit" model. 3G doesn't get some modern iOS features and won't run some apps due to its lack of power.


----------



## fractionMan (May 9, 2011)

hmm.  look about 240 average price second hand on ebay.

I think I can sell my HTC desire for 160 quid.

(the iphone just plays louder!)


----------



## editor (May 9, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> hmm.  look about 240 average price second hand on ebay.
> 
> I think I can sell my HTC desire for 160 quid.
> 
> (the iphone just plays louder!)


That sure seems a hell of a lot to pay for a second hand phone with a design that's nearly two years old.


----------



## fractionMan (May 9, 2011)

I'm amazed how much my desire is worth too tbh.

I just want a phone that can run apps with a LOUD headphone output (and the possiblity of line level via an adaptor).  Like the iPhone.


----------



## editor (May 9, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> I'm amazed how much my desire is worth too tbh.
> 
> I just want a phone that can run apps with a LOUD headphone output (and the possiblity of line level via an adaptor).  Like the iPhone.


I'm pretty sure you just have a defective unit as my Desire is plenty loud. Either way I'm sure there's plenty of new handsets with LOUD outputs - if you buy secondhand you're fucked if the thing goes wrong three months in.


----------



## fractionMan (May 9, 2011)

No, my HTC is plenty loud too when compared to other phones and mp3 players.

But the iPhone is _louder_ when played through a lepai tripath TA2020 amplifier, which is what's important to me right now.

The thing is, all I can go on is what I've seen (well heard), and so far the iPhone is the only thing  louder than the HTC I've heard.


----------



## editor (May 9, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> No, my HTC is plenty loud too when compared to other phones and mp3 players.
> 
> But the iPhone is _louder_ when played through a lepai tripath TA2020 amplifier, which is what's important to me right now.
> 
> The thing is, all I can go on is what I've seen (well heard), and so far the iPhone is the only thing  louder than the HTC I've heard.


Edit: it seems mad changing an expensive phone for the sake of a dirt cheap amp.


----------



## fractionMan (May 9, 2011)

It may be a dirt cheap amp but it has the highest efficiency and one of the best sound qualities of all amps on the market.

It's about getting the most noise for the longest duration at the best quality out of 10AA batteries in an easily portable box.


----------



## Badgers (May 9, 2011)

Quick question, probably a stupid one..... 

Currently have 3G iPhone which is running very slowly, due (I think) to the fact I am running the latest (4.2.1) version of the software on it. 
I have my contacts backed up on outlook and obviously apps/music are backed up okay on the PC. 
Made a copy of the photos already. 
Anything else to do? 

If I do a 'reset' to put the phone back to it's original settings should I do this via iTunes or on the handset itself?


----------



## Kanda (May 9, 2011)

Handset


----------



## editor (May 9, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> It may be a dirt cheap amp but it has the highest efficiency and one of the best sound qualities of all amps on the market.
> 
> It's about getting the most noise for the longest duration at the best quality out of 10AA batteries in an easily portable box.


It still seems a bit like the tail wagging the dog here. Why not buy a cheap MP3 player with a loud output and save yourself a load of dosh and hassle?


----------



## Badgers (May 9, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Handset



Cheers Kanda. 
So if I go ahead and reset via the handset then sync to put the contacts/apps back on the software will be fine as long as I don't go for the latest?


----------



## fractionMan (May 9, 2011)

editor said:


> It still seems a bit like the tail wagging the dog here. Why not buy a cheap MP3 player with a loud output and save yourself a load of dosh and hassle?


 
I would do if I knew of any.  Most cheap mp3 players have feeble outputs for low impedance headphones.


----------



## Badgers (May 11, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Quick question, probably a stupid one.....
> 
> Currently have 3G iPhone which is running very slowly, due (I think) to the fact I am running the latest (4.2.1) version of the software on it.
> I have my contacts backed up on outlook and obviously apps/music are backed up okay on the PC.
> ...


 


Kanda said:


> Handset


 
I can't seem to get rid of the latest (4.2.1) version of the software. 
Reset on the handset and in iTunes but no avail.


----------



## Kanda (May 11, 2011)

http://lifehacker.com/5572003/how-to-downgrade-your-iphone-3g[s]-from-ios-4-to-ios-313

Doh! Somehow missed you wanted to downgrade... 

Dunno if that's the version you want to downgrade to but there's plenty of guides out there.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 11, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> I just want a phone that can run apps with a LOUD headphone output



Quite right. I've cancelled my Spotify Pro account now over the pathetically quiet sound from my orange san francisco. My iPod is 3 times louder.


----------



## editor (May 11, 2011)

One very unhappy app developer leaves Apple's iOS  - and perhaps the Kindle and Nook may follow afterwards, thanks to their new rules....



> Apple has decided that it wants all of the ebook business in iOS for itself and it has has made mid-game rule changes that make it impossible for anyone but Apple to sell ebooks at a profit on iOS..
> 
> Five of us spent nearly a year and a half of our lives and over a million dollars in cash and sweat equity developing the iFlowReader app...What sounds like a reasonable demand when packaged by Apple's extraordinary public relations department is essentially an eviction notice to all ebook sellers on iOS...We put our faith in Apple and they screwed us...It was the American dream that we all strive for. Sadly, the America that we thought we were working in turned out to be a totalitarian regime and the dictator decided that he wanted all of what we had. Our dream is now over.
> 
> https://www.iflowreader.com/Closing.aspx




http://news.cnet.com/as-iflowreader-app-closes-harsh-words-for-apple/8301-17938_105-20061802-1.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 11, 2011)

> Sadly, the America that we thought we were working in turned out to be a totalitarian regime and the dictator decided that he wanted all of what we had.



LOL!


----------



## Structaural (May 12, 2011)

New iPhone ad: http://youtu.be/kTfy96gb2KI


----------



## editor (May 12, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> I would do if I knew of any.  Most cheap mp3 players have feeble outputs for low impedance headphones.


How about this: http://androidforums.com/evo-4g-tip...r-answer-evo-low-audio-output-headphones.html


http://www.astroplayer.com


----------



## editor (May 23, 2011)

iPhone users! The best Scrabble type app has arrived - and now you can take on Android users!
http://www.wirefresh.com/wordfeud-comes-to-the-iphone-android-vs-fanboy-word-offs-anticipated/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 23, 2011)

That'd be great news if scrabble games didn't bore the hell out of me!


----------



## Badgers (May 24, 2011)

Odd question.... 

Is there an app that you can turn on to interfere with a phone call on the iPhone? 
So if someone you do not want to speak to called you can switch it on?


----------



## Kanda (May 24, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Odd question....
> 
> Is there an app that you can turn on to interfere with a phone call on the iPhone?
> So if someone you do not want to speak to called you can switch it on?



Just use the button at the bottom that says: End Call.


----------



## Badgers (May 24, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Just use the button at the bottom that says: End Call.


 
Not for me, it is more of a curiosity. 
Oddly when I call people that owe me money they ALWAYS hit a bit signal.


----------



## sim667 (May 24, 2011)

editor said:


> iPhone users! The best Scrabble type app has arrived - and now you can take on Android users!
> http://www.wirefresh.com/wordfeud-comes-to-the-iphone-android-vs-fanboy-word-offs-anticipated/


 
I've downloaded this and need people to play against.

Same username as here.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 24, 2011)

Some nice visualisations of how a widget could work on iOS. Not a big fan of widgets tbh, either on deskop or phones, they just feel a little gimmicky to me...


----------



## Me76 (May 25, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I've downloaded this and need people to play against.
> 
> Same username as here.


 
I'm on. Username nuttacat. Going off to find you now.


----------



## editor (May 25, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Some nice visualisations of how a widget could work on iOS. Not a big fan of widgets tbh, either on deskop or phones, they just feel a little gimmicky to me...


Some of the widgets on my Android phone are *very* useful indeed. The iPhone OS feels really limited without them.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 25, 2011)

I've played around with a fair few on android phones and not once has iOS felt limited after...*shrugs*


----------



## editor (May 26, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've played around with a fair few on android phones and not once has iOS felt limited after...*shrugs*


Have you used, for example, Cycle Hire Widget? Or a music player widget? Or a weather widget? Or a facebook/Twitter widget? There's a very good reason why they're so popular and rumour is that Apple will be adopting them soon.


----------



## teuchter (May 26, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Odd question....
> 
> Is there an app that you can turn on to interfere with a phone call on the iPhone?
> So if someone you do not want to speak to called you can switch it on?



http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3e4bx_the-fonejacker-car-sale_fun


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 26, 2011)

editor said:


> Have you used, for example, Cycle Hire Widget? Or a music player widget? Or a weather widget? Or a facebook/Twitter widget? There's a very good reason why they're so popular and rumour is that Apple will be adopting them soon.


 
Apart from the cycle hire yep to all the above. Gimmicks usually are popular...fine that they're coming to iOS as long as we can turn them off.


----------



## editor (May 26, 2011)

Why is being able to see useful information instantly a 'gimmick '?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 31, 2011)

*Apple release iWork for iPhone*

Didn't see this coming ahead of next weeks big announcements...iWork for iPhone:


















> “Now you can use Keynote, Pages and Numbers on iPhone and iPod touch to create amazing presentations, documents and spreadsheets right in the palm of your hand,” said Philip Schiller, Apple’s senior vice president of Worldwide Product Marketing. “The incredible Retina display, revolutionary Multi-Touch interface and our powerful software make it easy to create, edit, organize and share all of your documents from iPhone 4 or iPod touch.”
> 
> Keynote, Pages and Numbers import and export documents from iWork for Mac and Microsoft Office; print wirelessly using AirPrint™; and include beautiful Apple-designed themes and templates. All iWork apps now include improved document management with thumbnail images that let you find your files quickly, organize them and group them into folders using intuitive gestures. From the Tools button in the toolbar, you can easily share any presentation, document or spreadsheet without leaving the app.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2011)

I don't think the text is small enough in those screen grabs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 31, 2011)

editor said:


> I don't think the text is small enough in those screen grabs.


 
LOL!


----------



## Yata (Jun 2, 2011)

Just got my iPhone onto GiffGaff, fiver a month goodybag (unlimited txts and internet) and ten credit for calls cause i dont make that many to be honest. 
Seems too good to be true.. anyone else using GiffGaff??


----------



## sim667 (Jun 2, 2011)

Me76 said:


> I'm on. Username nuttacat. Going off to find you now.


 
Never received an invite. Ive been all over it like scrabble bukkake though....

Ill send you one through.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 2, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Didn't see this coming ahead of next weeks big announcements...iWork for iPhone:


 
Having installed these apps on my iPod, tbh they're a bit of a chuffing joke. 

As - I think - you posted on t'other thread, they do have the potential to be useful for a bit of editing. But the couple of times I've fired up Pages (following a reset, with all other apps closed) on my iPod 4th gen, the processor has very rapidly died on it's arse. Skittery screen, lags aplenty, and a pretty hopeless interface. You can kinda get away with Pages on the iPad, because you can have (in portrait) an A4 view, and in landscape it's pretty much A4 width (though I still need to revert to thumbnail view in order to get a better idea of page setup / borders). But... the close-up typing screen on the ipod is just a bit of a joke. Way too zoomed in to be very much use at all. Don't think it does landscape.

Haven't tried Numbers / Keynote yet, but amn't expecting anything particularly functional.

The one major MAJOR advantage from this most recent update - IMO - is that it's now possible to link a keynote presentation with 'keynote remote' on an iPod. Meaning I can use my ipod to control an iPad / projected Keynote presentation, whilst also being able to see all my slide notes (on the ipod).

Which is a very nice touch, tbf.



e2a: yeah, at a guess (and after checking the specs), I'd hazard that these're only really suited to the iPhone 4. With double the RAM of the iPod.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 2, 2011)

Right then that makes sense...but yeah I did say I see them as more a compliment to the main use on the iPad etc. I expect iCloud to link up Pages use from your Mac to iPad to iPhone nicely...


----------



## Kanda (Jun 3, 2011)

Speedball 2 is currently available for free in the App store...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 3, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Speedball 2 is currently available for free in the App store...


 
Nice! Picked that up for 59p a few weeks back, SO GREAT! Still so much fun and a brilliant port.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jun 3, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Right then that makes sense...but yeah I did say I see them as more a compliment to the main use on the iPad etc. I expect iCloud to link up Pages use from your Mac to iPad to iPhone nicely...


 
Yeah, service certainly ain't there at the moment. 

Can upload / DL everything from an iDisk, but there's nowt that allows syncing.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 4, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Speedball 2 is currently available for free in the App store...


 
Please please let this come to android. It was one of my favourite games on the amiga!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 4, 2011)

I hope it does everybody should get to share in the retro love! It was one my faves on the Amiga too. "Ice cweam, ice cweam."


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2011)

iOS 5 dev-build hands on review here with lots of screengrabs:






http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/40432/ios-5-developer-build-hands-on


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2011)

The more i think about iOS5 and the cloud stuff the more the notifications and iMessage interest me, the smaller updates seem more exciting than the stuff that's meant to be exciting.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2011)

Now this is a very nice little app: Songkick is free and uses your location to tell you about bands that are playing for all your impromptu gigging needs. Just downloaded it and the first thing it asks is to scan your music collections to build a profile to recommend you stuff. Very nice!


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2011)

This article nails it:

"Apple’s iOS 5 notifications are great, but webOS is still better"
http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/08/apples-ios-5-notifications-are-great-but-webos-is-still-better/

Shame Palm/HP fucked up so much and their hardware was so shonky, although I'm still waiting for something half as elegant as their Touchstone charger to come out on another platform.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2011)

Yeah read that thought it was a fairly pointless thing to say tbh. Palms so unknown now by your average user that they ain't gonna use iOS notifications and think 'Man I wish this was as good as WebOS'! They'll be all 'Wow notifications don't suck on my iPhone now!'. 

It's not for a phone but there's a brilliant touchstone style charger for the Apple mouse. Really don't know why this style of charging hasn't taken off tbh...


----------



## sim667 (Jun 9, 2011)

How much does a dev subscription to apple cost? Im almost tempted. I wanna try my hand at writing iOS apps.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2011)

editor said:


> This article nails it:
> 
> "Apple’s iOS 5 notifications are great, but webOS is still better"
> http://www.bgr.com/2011/06/08/apples-ios-5-notifications-are-great-but-webos-is-still-better/
> ...


 
Splitting hairs tbf.  Very little in it and that is a review of a dev version of software that isn't due for release for 5 months?  Its just notifications, its million times better than it was.  Its now a forgotten feature, in with there with cut and paste, mms and a whole load of stuff people used to moan about.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2011)

It's more than splitting hairs, means almost zero in the real world...


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's more than splitting hairs, means almost zero in the real world...


But this is the tech forum where even more minor details are regularly discussed and dissected at length! Besides, Apple could still learn from the webOS notification system, like they so obviously learnt from Android's.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jun 9, 2011)

sim667 said:


> How much does a dev subscription to apple cost? Im almost tempted. I wanna try my hand at writing iOS apps.


It's free to get access to the tools, presuming you already have a Mac. 
http://developer.apple.com/programs/register/

You have to pay $99/yr to register as an iOS Developer which gets you access to beta codes for testing, ability to test on real devices etc


----------



## sim667 (Jun 9, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> It's free to get access to the tools, presuming you already have a Mac.
> http://developer.apple.com/programs/register/
> 
> You have to pay $99/yr to register as an iOS Developer which gets you access to beta codes for testing, ability to test on real devices etc



Hmmmmm....... im already and apple developer program, mainly cus I needed xcode for something....

$99 is just a bit more than i want to pay for that. I do wanna try some ios programming though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2011)

editor said:


> But this is the tech forum where even more minor details are regularly discussed and dissected at length! Besides, Apple could still learn from the webOS notification system, like they so obviously learnt from Android's.


 
Yeah and we both know how much there is to be had with that at times..!


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2011)

editor said:


> But this is the tech forum where even more minor details are regularly discussed and dissected at length! Besides, Apple could still learn from the webOS notification system, like they so obviously learnt from Android's.


 
What is also forgotten is that Apple push notification system works for ALL apps that want notifications, would the WebOS cope with 30 different notifications all the same time? Speedball 2 asked to send me notifications!  It clearly only has the basic apps that do on webOS.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 10, 2011)

I think Apple's implementation still lacks - I don't want a banner covering my app, I reckon they could make more use of sounds. But I like the slide down thing (which is from SBSettings in the jailbreak community, (predating Android) which is where Apple nick most of their ideas)


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2011)

Sunray said:


> What is also forgotten is that Apple push notification system works for ALL apps that want notifications, would the WebOS cope with 30 different notifications all the same time? Speedball 2 asked to send me notifications!  It clearly only has the basic apps that do on webOS.


Have you ever actually used a webOS phone? There's a reason why so many people rate its notifications system the best, and there's a reason why Apple hired the guy that invented them.



> The iOS 5 notification system is, without question, leaps and bounds better than the old iOS notification system. Let’s face it, though — as horrible as iOS notifications have been until now, anything would be better. The system still has plenty of room for improvement however, and unlike Apple’s cut, copy and paste implementation, iOS 5 notifications are not class-leading. Instead, the two-year-old notification UI found in webOS is still iOS’ superior.
> 
> WebOS removes the additional layer of complication introduced by the Notification Center, and Android’s notification pane before it. Notifications are represented by a single row of small icons at the bottom of the display. To view a notification after it has been displayed and minimized, the user simply taps the icon. The message then reappears and the user can either open the relevant app by tapping the notification, or dismiss it by swiping the message off the screen to the left or right. The system is incredibly simple, extremely logical and, to quote one Steven P. Jobs, “it just works.”
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2011)

editor said:


> Have you ever actually used a webOS phone? There's a reason why so many people rate its notifications system the best, and there's a reason why Apple hired the guy that invented them.


 
Thats not answering my question.  Its just saying the same thing over and over.   iOS allows *all* apps to notify, which I don't think webOS does, would it cope if it had 30-40 apps pushing up notifications.  Surely if it squeezes the screen, 40 notification will put the screen your working on off the top?


----------



## Structaural (Jun 10, 2011)

Moving on from WebOS obsessives...

Some compelling iOS 5 features:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/06/more-upcoming-ios-5-features-our-top-picks.ars


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Thats not answering my question.  Its just saying the same thing over and over.   iOS allows *all* apps to notify, which I don't think webOS does, would it cope if it had 30-40 apps pushing up notifications.  Surely if it squeezes the screen, 40 notification will put the screen your working on off the top?


In what possible scenario would you have - or even _want_ - 40 different apps all pushing notifications all at the same time? It's a ridiculous argument.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2011)

editor said:


> In what possible scenario would you have - or even _want_ - 40 different apps all pushing notifications all at the same time? It's a ridiculous argument.


 
This is what iOS allows.  I currently have about 13 apps that can push notification to me all but a few are switched off as the notification system was broken.  Its fixed now so I'll switch all 13 on when they do the update.  Lots of new stuff wants to notify these days.


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2011)

editor said:


> In what possible scenario would you have - or even _want_ - 40 different apps all pushing notifications all at the same time? It's a ridiculous argument.


 
Err, what? Its perfectly plausible that people may have quite a large number of apps that are capable of sending push notifications. When it comes to the example of 40 notifications sitting there, it depends over what time period these have gathered as to whether this number is realistic. Generally I doubt that too many people have that many notifications accumulate in between uses of the phone, but you never know.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> Err, what? Its perfectly plausible that people may have quite a large number of apps that are capable of sending push notifications. When it comes to the example of 40 notifications sitting there, it depends over what time period these have gathered as to whether this number is realistic. Generally I doubt that too many people have that many notifications accumulate in between uses of the phone, but you never know.


But _all at the same time_ from_ 40 different apps?!_ When would this ever happen?

The iOS5 system is basically a rip off of the Android system, and as someone who has owned all three phones, I'm not surprised that writers are commenting that the webOS remains the superior system.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 10, 2011)

Structaural said:


> I think Apple's implementation still lacks - I don't want a banner covering my app, I reckon they could make more use of sounds. But I like the slide down thing (which is from SBSettings in the jailbreak community, (predating Android) which is where Apple nick most of their ideas)



Agreed, I think the jailbreak community is actually invaluable for apple developers. The new OS notifications system is undoubtedly a hybrid between SBSettings and LockInfo.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 10, 2011)

In answer to sunray's question: Yes, webOS has support for 3rd party notifications that work just like the 1st party ones. Source


----------



## Structaural (Jun 10, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Agreed, I think the jailbreak community is actually invaluable for apple developers. The new OS notifications system is undoubtedly a hybrid between SBSettings and LockInfo.


 
Indeed.


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2011)

editor said:


> But _all at the same time_ from_ 40 different apps?!_ When would this ever happen?


 
Depends whether 'at the same time' really means that. I dont think people are likely to receive that many at the same precise moment, but if we are talking about this many notifications building up during a period that the device is not touched, thats not so hard to believe.

Anyway Im not sure this strand of argument has any relevance anymore since it sounds like both these mobile operating system can (or will with next version) deal with all this stuff in a more than acceptable way, whatever the volume of notifications.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 10, 2011)

I was ensuring that people compare like with like.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2011)

elbows said:


> Depends whether 'at the same time' really means that. I dont think people are likely to receive that many at the same precise moment, but if we are talking about this many notifications building up during a period that the device is not touched, thats not so hard to believe.
> 
> *Anyway Im not sure this strand of argument has any relevance anymore since it sounds like both these mobile operating system can (or will with next version) deal with all this stuff in a more than acceptable way, whatever the volume of notifications.*



Indeed, it'll go the way of all that bleating about the fall of civilisation because the iPhone didn't have copy and past years ago...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 11, 2011)

.


----------



## maximilian ping (Jun 14, 2011)

Any news on when iphone 5 is out? My iphone 3GS contract runs out in Nov so its enough time for release, then glitches ironed out, then get it. Someone told me rumour it was going to be a kind of simpler version of iphone 4, which sounds strange


----------



## editor (Jun 14, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> Any news on when iphone 5 is out?


There's only guesswork online, but the tech consensus seems to be that the the iPhone 5 is going to be more of an incremental upgrade rather than a big leap and will be coming out in a few months. But there again, that consensus could be totally wrong too and a massively improved new phone could be coming out next week!

So, in short, no one has any real idea.


----------



## maximilian ping (Jun 14, 2011)

ta. if guesses are correct, risky strategy, esp with competition getting tougher: could mean people migrate to flashier climes


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 14, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> ta. if guesses are correct, risky strategy, esp with competition getting tougher: could mean people migrate to flashier climes


 
A look at the new os should give you an idea of features, so that plus a hardware upgrade.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 14, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> Any news on when iphone 5 is out? My iphone 3GS contract runs out in Nov so its enough time for release, then glitches ironed out, then get it. Someone told me rumour it was going to be a kind of simpler version of iphone 4, which sounds strange


 
You'll be well placed for the launch going by the majority of leaks.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Jun 18, 2011)

*Ebay app*

*Has anyone had any problems when bidding using the Ebay app?*

I used it for the first time this week. This is what happened:-

The auction had been at £41 for days. In the last 2 minutes I put in a bid for £50, expecting it to go to £42 but it went to you have been outbid. So I thought someone else must have put a higher bid in already.

I was a bit dosey, having just woken up so I didn't think it was strange that it said highest bid £50.

I quickly put in £51, just in case.

Well it said exactly the same thing as last time, but I'd put it in at about 2 seconds to go, so it also said ended.  Here is a photo of the screen







As you can see, again, it is asking me to bid again.

We'd been umming & arring over whether to bid or not, so I wasn't really bothered.

Imagine my surprise when I check my emails & I've won the auction 

I messaged the seller & asked him if someone had pulled out, he said not. I explained what had happened & asked if anyone else had bid.  He said, it was telling him someone else had bid, but he couldn't work out where 

The minimum bid was £1.

Basically the app asked me to bid, on my own bid, pushing up the sale price. If I'd have bid on my PC I would have got the auction for £42.

I couldn't see anyone moaning about it on the the iTunes review thingy.

I'm very  and 

So am I the only one?


----------



## Sunray (Jun 18, 2011)

Odd behaviour. 

Its ebays software so I'd go onto their message boards and ask there.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 18, 2011)

I've not seen that, though to be fair I avoid eBay on iOS because it's like giving an alcoholic a hipflask.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 18, 2011)

Never had that problem, and agree with FridgeMagnet above!


----------



## Crispy (Jun 18, 2011)

Hold the power button and press the home button to take a screenshot btw


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2011)

Crazy!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2011)

*iPhone 4 Becomes The Most Popular Camera On Flickr*

Not a surprise as this was on the cards for a while now but it's official, the iPhone 4 is now the most popular camera on Flickr. Makes sense given the high number of quality photography apps for tweaking and sharing (I'm a big fan of Instagram and PhotoToaster) via social media sites.


----------



## editor (Jun 22, 2011)

Bloomberg are insisting that the iPhone 5 will be arriving this September. No doubt it will "change everything" all over again like the, err, iPhone 4 apparently did.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-06-22/apple-said-to-prepare-faster-iphone-for-september.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2011)

September doesn't sound far fetched tbh. As for your typical petulance regarding Apple's marketing I'd say 'meh', hardware isn't that far away from becoming no big deal, software is where's at.


----------



## editor (Jun 22, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> As for your typical petulance regarding Apple's marketing I'd say 'meh', hardware isn't that far away from becoming no big deal, software is where's at.


Pardon? I just commented that despite their boasts, I don't think the iPhone 4 "changed everything. again". 

It's a good phone, but I don't think anyone seriously thinks it really changed _everything_, do they?


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2011)

Apple take down anti-Israeli app in 24 hours, a decision which has been widely reported:


> Once again, Apple has fallen back on its developer guidelines as a reason for pulling an app that caused a public-relations catastrophe.
> 
> In just about 24 hours after a letter of complaint from an Israeli minister, it removed the Third Intifada app from the iTunes store.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2011)

editor said:


> Pardon? I just commented that despite their boasts, I don't think the iPhone 4 "changed everything. again".
> 
> It's a good phone, but I don't think anyone seriously thinks it really changed _everything_, do they?


 
Are you really stupid enough to think a company is gonna release a phone with the slogan 'this changes nothing'?! It's marketing, getting bent out of shape over it is infantile to the extreme.


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Are you really stupid enough to think a company is gonna release a phone with the slogan 'this changes nothing'?! It's marketing, getting bent out of shape over it is infantile to the extreme.


There are a large selection of other, less boastful, slogans available, you know. 

Oh, and this small observation was neither "infantile" or "stupid," so please calm down.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2011)

editor said:


> Apple take down anti-Israeli app in 24 hours, a decision which has been widely reported:


 
Their app store, their corporate right. *shrugs* On a political level I can see this causing some consternation amongst my pro-Palestine friends but in consumer terms I doubt it'll have much impact.


----------



## elbows (Jun 23, 2011)

Why do I keep reading about marketing here? Marketing sucks, I go out of my way to avoid it, its all bollocks, who cares if Apple lay it on thick, its all shit at the end of the day, no matter how you spread it.


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2011)

elbows said:


> Why do I keep reading about marketing here? Marketing sucks, I go out of my way to avoid it, its all bollocks, who cares if Apple lay it on thick, its all shit at the end of the day, no matter how you spread it.


Marketing has played a _massive_ part in Apple's success, so I'd say it's a relevant topic for discussion.


----------



## Kanda (Jun 23, 2011)

Is it really worth discussing the merits of particular marketing slogans though?? 

Maybe start a new thread about wanky marketing terms encompassing all companies. I'm sure it's not Apple specific...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 23, 2011)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2011)

elbows said:


> Why do I keep reading about marketing here? Marketing sucks, I go out of my way to avoid it, its all bollocks, who cares if Apple lay it on thick, its all shit at the end of the day, no matter how you spread it.


 
Because some people see marketing as a character trait rather than what it is, a business practice...


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Is it really worth discussing the merits of particular marketing slogans though??
> 
> Maybe start a new thread about wanky marketing terms encompassing all companies. I'm sure it's not Apple specific...


It was just a passing comment that KE seemed to get all worked up about.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


>


 
LOL! If only...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Is it really worth discussing the merits of particular marketing slogans though??
> 
> Maybe start a new thread about wanky marketing terms encompassing all companies. I'm sure it's not Apple specific...


 
Indeed, but you know the weird comments about Apple's marketing continue. It's just a corporations way of making money, not that the anti Apple brigade understand that of course!


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> the anti Apple brigade


Can I just say that you seem a little bit obsessed with this bizarre "anti Apple brigade." Who _are_ these people you keep going on about?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 23, 2011)

He's obsessed with you're obsessed with he's obsessed with you're obsessed with he's obsessed with
SHUT UP!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2011)

Crispy said:


> He's obsessed with you're obsessed with he's obsessed with you're obsessed with he's obsessed with
> SHUT UP!


 
LOL! You don't even have to mention the Editor and his paranoia runs riot.  Like I said this is just silly always commenting on marketing, it's an fixation that people who hate something have. You don't see me or any other normal person banging on about HTCs marketing in this manner. Funny that.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 23, 2011)

That was for both of you, btw. It's obvious you're just ing to wind him up, and both your records have been worn flat through repeated plays. It ruins every apple thread.


----------



## g force (Jun 23, 2011)

I'd take Apple's High Fiving over HTC's faux graffiti stencil ads on Brick Lane shutters any day of the week.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2011)

Crispy said:


> That was for both of you, btw. It's obvious you're just ing to wind him up, and both your records have been worn flat through repeated plays. It ruins every apple thread.


 
He started it.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 30, 2011)

Does anyone know if there's any apps jailbroken or non jailbroken that will automatically forward texts to another number? There's a bit in option in iOS for phone calls but not for texts.


----------



## Structaural (Jun 30, 2011)

Yes, BiteSMS on jailbroken phones will do this. And change your bloody SMS sound too!


----------



## sim667 (Jun 30, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Yes, BiteSMS on jailbroken phones will do this. And change your bloody SMS sound too!


 
Brill thanks. Ill probes rejailbreak me phone for the summer then.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jun 30, 2011)

ITV Player is now in the App Store!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 30, 2011)

Nice!!


----------



## Ozric (Jun 30, 2011)

Where do I sign up for this Anti-Apple brigade?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 30, 2011)

Ozric said:


> Where do I sign up for this Anti-Apple brigade?


 
You join via FandroidsRus.com.


----------



## Ozric (Jun 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You join via FandroidsRus.com.



Already paid up for that 

I'm not a purest Anti-Apple though, they have great ideas but I prefer not to pay as much for them and for the writers of music and software not to give too much royalties away to them. 
Competition is good so long may the competition go on.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 30, 2011)

Ozric said:


> Already paid up for that
> 
> I'm not a purest Anti-Apple though, they have great ideas but I prefer not to pay as much for them and for the writers of music and software not to give too much royalties away to them.
> Competition is good so long may the competition go on.



Indeed, I've never been brand loyal, couldn't give a fuck about the corporation that makes the products I use, never seen any reason to think differently on this.


----------



## Biglittlefish (Jul 5, 2011)

Don't know if this is the right place for this question but...

I'm trading in my old nokia and thinking about the iphone route. Any recommendations for the best deal? Three through phones4u have £35 a month for 2000mins 5000txts and unlimited web which seems good but I've heard three's signal is shit?


----------



## 100% masahiko (Jul 5, 2011)

Biglittlefish said:


> Don't know if this is the right place for this question but...
> 
> I'm trading in my old nokia and thinking about the iphone route. Any recommendations for the best deal? Three through phones4u have £35 a month for 2000mins 5000txts and unlimited web which seems good but I've heard three's signal is shit?


 
3 is generally shit.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 5, 2011)

I'm on 3.  I find them OK, although I did have a bit of trouble when I first tried to sign up to them though.


----------



## Biglittlefish (Jul 5, 2011)

They're cheap but I'm apprehensive about getting into a long contract with them.


----------



## Private Storm (Jul 5, 2011)

Biglittlefish said:


> Don't know if this is the right place for this question but...
> 
> I'm trading in my old nokia and thinking about the iphone route. Any recommendations for the best deal? Three through phones4u have £35 a month for 2000mins 5000txts and unlimited web which seems good but I've heard three's signal is shit?



This is a good page for comparing iPhone deals

http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/deals/cheap-iphone


----------



## Biglittlefish (Jul 5, 2011)

Private Storm said:


> This is a good page for comparing iPhone deals
> 
> http://www.moneysavingexpert.com/deals/cheap-iphone


 
Thanks!


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2011)

Biglittlefish said:


> They're cheap but I'm apprehensive about getting into a long contract with them.


My last iPhone contract was the longest I've ever had at 18 months, and after that I've vowed to never go back on such a long deal.


----------



## Biglittlefish (Jul 5, 2011)

Most contracts seem to be 24 months now. Why don't you want to be on a long contract? I would like to be flexible but the long contract rates seem cheaper overall.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2011)

Biglittlefish said:


> Most contracts seem to be 24 months now. Why don't you want to be on a long contract? I would like to be flexible but the long contract rates seem cheaper overall.


1. Can't change phone for two years
2. Network coverage can worsen
3. New technology could leave me with a pup of a handset
4. Phone/data rates could crash but I'd still be tied into an artificially inflated contract
5. Far better deals on new networks could emerge
etc etc


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 5, 2011)

iPhone 5 (although it could be called iPhone 4S) to ship in September:  http://blogs.computerworld.com/18566/iphone_5_enters_production_ships_september?source=rss_blogs


----------



## Sunray (Jul 5, 2011)

Biglittlefish said:


> Most contracts seem to be 24 months now. Why don't you want to be on a long contract? I would like to be flexible but the long contract rates seem cheaper overall.


 
I think that O2 have moved back to 12 month contracts.


----------



## Biglittlefish (Jul 6, 2011)

I've found some decent 12 month sim only deals on vodafone.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2011)

Biglittlefish said:


> I've found some decent 12 month sim only deals on vodafone.


But why go on Vodafone's crappy network when you can get much cheaper deals on GiffGaff?


----------



## Biglittlefish (Jul 6, 2011)

Ah, that's pretty cool!


----------



## Kanda (Jul 6, 2011)

It wasn't too long ago everyone was slating O2's network, which GiffGaff sits on...  

I used to defend O2 like mad but can now say they are fucking shit where I live, I struggle to get a 3G signal at home these days whereas it used to be great.


----------



## Biglittlefish (Jul 6, 2011)

Been on o2 for years (not 3g) and their coverage is the one part I can't fault. That said I rarely use my phone outside London.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2011)

Kanda said:


> It wasn't too long ago everyone was slating O2's network, which GiffGaff sits on...


Maybe that's because o2 have since invested heavily in their network?


----------



## Kanda (Jul 6, 2011)

editor said:


> Maybe that's because o2 have since invested heavily in their network?


 
...but it's got worse where I live the fuckers


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2011)

Kanda said:


> ...but it's got worse where I live the fuckers


I'd take that personally if I were you!  

Can't you change networks or are you on an iPhone Eternity contract?


----------



## Kanda (Jul 6, 2011)

editor said:


> I'd take that personally if I were you!
> 
> Can't you change networks or are you on an iPhone Eternity contract?


 
Got a couple of months left. Could be my phone though, the iPad seems to pick up 3G easier.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 6, 2011)

Biglittlefish said:


> I've found some decent 12 month sim only deals on vodafone.


 
Vodafone have fantastic network coverage, they have some ok rolling monthly sim only deals too. Customer service is fairly good and far better than O2 ime.


----------



## sim667 (Jul 7, 2011)

I never have a problem with o2 coeverage, but then i think i live and work somewhere with decent reception

Im still on unlimited data with them too, so im clinging on to that, but it does mean I cant take out the data bolt on to use the personal wifi for me ipad.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 27, 2011)

So this Autumn's new iphone (whatever they decide to call it) will be quite a different look. A return to the rounded back, a larger screen, and a larger home button - or maybe a gesture area, given the horizontal shape?

As before, it's a leaked case design that gives the game away (these have been pretty reliable in the past)


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Jul 27, 2011)

and I read somewhere that it might be moving to a universal mini usb charger..but that case seems to have a wide gap for a normal iphone sized charger...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 27, 2011)

Piers Gibbon said:


> and I read somewhere that it might be moving to a universal mini usb charger..but that case seems to have a wide gap for a normal iphone sized charger...


 
Haven't read that but it be very fucking useful if they did.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 27, 2011)

They'll include a dongle for it, to comply with new EU regs on standardised chargers, but keep the dock socket as normal.


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2011)

The usual click-hungry tech sites are currently getting all excited about this non-story of what is supposed to the the iPhone 5, if anyone's interested.







http://www.bgr.com/2011/07/28/iphone-5-image-supposedly-surfaces/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 29, 2011)

Dunno what to make of that grainy photo other than to say it wouldn't surprise me if this was staged...


----------



## MBV (Jul 29, 2011)

Someone will probably leave one in a cafe soon


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 29, 2011)

Another day, another alleged shot of the new iPhone 5...this doesn't look really to me, just looks too ugly for an Apple product.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 30, 2011)

That screen shows a different number of apps from any other iPhone, 20+dock instead of 16+dock.


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 30, 2011)

And why the scratch protectors?! Things that Apple condemns?!

And the rear hatch?!


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2011)

Here. have another 'iPhone 5' photo or two:











http://www.bgr.com/2011/08/01/do-these-photos-reveal-apples-new-iphone-5-design/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 1, 2011)

Seems odd that they would go back to the 3GS style after making such a big deal about the iPhone 4s design...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 1, 2011)

Laughably fake clone.

"Designed by Apolle in California. Assemeaded in USA"

"Modle A1332"


----------



## Crispy (Aug 1, 2011)

Can I have an aseemeaded phone please?


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> Laughably fake clone.


Of course - the article says that it's a fake, but it seems that sometimes case manufacturers manage to reverse-engineer something that ends up bearing a passing resemblance to the actual product. 



> The sleek, slender smartphone pictured above is absolutely not Apple’s next-generation iPhone. It is entirely possible, however, that the iPhone 5 could feature the same design. Images of a fake iPhone 5 were published this past weekend by gizchina.com, and they show a strikingly thin 7mm-thick handset that has all the makings of an Apple design. The device itself is certainly not built of the same high-quality materials or components Apple would use, but as has been noted by several sites that picked up the story, it is possible — perhaps even likely — that the above clone is based on Apple’s actual iPhone 5 design.
> 
> Manufacturing has probably begun at this point, and employees of Apple’s manufacturing partners leak parts and information left and right. So, a Chinese iPhone clone maker obtaining Apple’s designs (or even a working device) and building a clone is hardly far fetched


It looks rather like some Android designs, to my eyes.



Kid_Eternity said:


> Seems odd that they would go back to the 3GS style after making such a big deal about the iPhone 4s design...


That seems to be a recurring theme on many of  the rumour sites.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 1, 2011)

So the justification for this story is that this badly-made iPhone 3 fake might fit a case that might be for the iPhone5.

Or it might fit inside a furry pouch, indicating that it could be representative of the forthcoming Jo-E - the Kangaroo2.

Link bait is, I believe, the term.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 1, 2011)

Diversion leaks by Apple to keep people of the scent? The number of stupid leaks or 'sources' seems far higher this year...


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> So the justification for this story is that this badly-made iPhone 3 fake might fit a case that might be for the iPhone5.
> 
> Or it might fit inside a furry pouch, indicating that it could be representative of the forthcoming Jo-E - the Kangaroo2.
> 
> Link bait is, I believe, the term.


 It's all bollocks. Why some people and some websites get themselves worked into such a froth over almost random Apple speculation is one of life's great mysteries to me.


----------



## ska invita (Aug 1, 2011)

i saw a guy today with his iphone using it as a mirror to correct his carefully moused hair


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2011)

ska invita said:


> i saw a guy today with his iphone using it as a mirror to correct his carefully moused hair


I hope he was wearing tight trousers.


----------



## Kanda (Aug 2, 2011)

So, round 5 of the dull as fuck speculation of a new iPhone... you guys whinge about it then feed it. It's like feeding the trolls


----------



## Sunray (Aug 4, 2011)

editor said:


> It's all bollocks. Why some people and some websites get themselves worked into such a froth over almost random Apple speculation is one of life's great mysteries to me.


 
Mana from heaven for Apple marketing department.  Constant free advertising.   No wonder they have so much cash.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 4, 2011)

Sunray said:


> Mana from heaven for Apple marketing department.  Constant free advertising.   No wonder they have so much cash.


 
Totally.


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2011)

Giant facepalm needed.



> Rob Shoesmith, by day a marketing and PR executive for a smartphone app development firm, is prepared to camp out outside the Apple Store in Covent Garden, London, to be sure of getting himself an iPhone 5 on launch day.
> 
> Big deal, you might say. Well, here's what makes it interesting - Shoesmith is prepared to spend up to a month waiting outside the store for launch day and plans to get there on the day Apple officially announces the new handset.
> 
> http://www.macworld.co.uk/ipod-itunes/news/index.cfm?newsid=3305342


Oh, and the latest rumourzzzz is Oct 4th for an iPhone 4S.


----------



## elbows (Sep 22, 2011)

Such antics may make sense for someone like him because its a stunt for the company, not just a human being a sad case for the sake of it.

Its really not clear that there is going to be an iPhone 5 in the near future though, the iPhone 4S might be it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 22, 2011)

Wouldn't be an Apple launch without some idiot camping out for it and someone bitching about it online..!


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 24, 2011)

editor said:


> Giant facepalm needed.


Until you read the finer detail... It looks like one massive stunt that's going to bring him a pretty interesting and ridiculously sponsored month. Without him spending any of his own money - might even save enough to cover the cost of an iPhone!

The whole shennanigans look more like a hat to hang a decent publicity stunt from than anything specifically i-Phoney.


> What's more, he can't spend any money. Everything he requires for the duration of his stay will have to be provided by others - shelter, food, outdoor clothing - as well as all the entertainment he needs to keep boredom at bay as he waits.
> 
> He's been busily preparing the ground already - metaphorically speaking, at least. Several companies have pledged to provide him with various products including toilet paper and contraptions that he can actually use for going to the toilet in, not to put too fine a point on it.
> 
> ...


----------



## miniGMgoit (Sep 25, 2011)

I'm browsing the boards using the tap talk app. It's a great app and everything is loading super fast. A really nice way to use the boards. Some of the functions are missing but I rarely use them anyway. Good app though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2011)

Yup great app for urban.


----------



## Winot (Sep 25, 2011)

miniGMgoit said:


> I'm browsing the boards using the tap talk app. It's a great app and everything is loading super fast. A really nice way to use the boards. Some of the functions are missing but I rarely use them anyway. Good app though.



Mine is great over WiFi but won't work on 3G. Emailed support but no reply.


----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 26, 2011)

about to order ipad2......


----------



## pianissimo (Sep 26, 2011)

iPad 3 will be launched in October.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 26, 2011)

iphone thread


----------



## 100% masahiko (Sep 26, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> iPad 3 will be launched in October.



What?


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 26, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> iPad 3 will be launched in October.


I doubt it. Most probably a year after the 2. That's their usual MO.


----------



## gabi (Sep 28, 2011)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/business/apple-stores-covered-in-jizz-201109284358/


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2011)

Great fake iPhone 5 video here:


----------



## Sunray (Sep 29, 2011)

We shall see it revealed on the 4th.

I would have said its the 4S but 5 might be out now given the aerial issue they had.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2011)

Ariel issue?


----------



## Structaural (Sep 30, 2011)

What's the little mermaid got to do with it?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 30, 2011)

Any new iPods in the pipeline? I hope so. I want a new Nano which is shaped like they used to be, not this square touchscreen shit.


----------



## editor (Sep 30, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> Any new iPods in the pipeline? I hope so. I want a new Nano which is shaped like they used to be, not this square touchscreen shit.


One of the rumours is that the iPod Shuffle and iPod Classic will be scrapped.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...and-iPod-Classic-to-be-scrapped-by-Apple.html


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 30, 2011)

editor said:


> One of the rumours is that the iPod Shuffle and iPod Classic will be scrapped.
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technolo...and-iPod-Classic-to-be-scrapped-by-Apple.html



Hmm, that leaves the iPod Touch and the tiny touchscreen Nano...neither of which I want to be honest.


----------



## maximilian ping (Sep 30, 2011)

Last night I smashed my iphone while pissed. Very enjoyable at the time. Been wanting to do it for a while and contract ends next week. Anyway, starting to regret it now because I've basically lost my second brain. Anyone know whether if i put the sim card in someone else's phone i will get calender/phone numbers or is that all attached to handset itself?


----------



## editor (Sep 30, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> Last night I smashed my iphone while pissed. Very enjoyable at the time. Been wanting to do it for a while and contract ends next week.


Blimey!

If you use GMail all your mail will be safe, same applies to their calender, contacts etc.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 30, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> Last night I smashed my iphone while pissed. Very enjoyable at the time. Been wanting to do it for a while and contract ends next week. Anyway, starting to regret it now because I've basically lost my second brain. Anyone know whether if i put the sim card in someone else's phone i will get calender/phone numbers or is that all attached to handset itself?



Handset mainly. There may be a few on SIM. Don't you have a synced backup??


----------



## Crispy (Sep 30, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> Last night I smashed my iphone while pissed. Very enjoyable at the time. Been wanting to do it for a while and contract ends next week. Anyway, starting to regret it now because I've basically lost my second brain. Anyone know whether if i put the sim card in someone else's phone i will get calender/phone numbers or is that all attached to handset itself?



Nothing is stored on SIM with the iphone.
Is it utterly fucked? Have you tried plugging it in?
Otherwise, the only backup will be from when you last plugged it into itunes.


----------



## editor (Sep 30, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Handset mainly. There may be a few on SIM. Don't you have a synced backup??


Depends how you use your phone. None of my numbers are on my SIM.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 30, 2011)

editor said:


> Depends how you use your phone. None of my numbers are on my SIM.



There should really be none on it. There's no means to copy to SIM on the iPhone as Crispy implied above.


----------



## maximilian ping (Sep 30, 2011)

I'm a knob head. I rarely sync'd my iphone with my mac because i hate the word 'sync'. I certainly never sync'd it with this laptop because i bought it a weeka go. I will have to rummage in the bin and see if i can get it working, although i seem to remember it was very mangled.

I think I smashed it because my human brain was rebelling against my iphone brain. my human brain used the fact that I ws pissed to take over my body and throw phone against kitchen wall


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> Hmm, that leaves the iPod Touch and the tiny touchscreen Nano...neither of which I want to be honest.



Yep does look like the other ipods are going the way of the white macbook...makes sense really, they have no real value in this touch/app crazy world we now live in...


----------



## Sunray (Sep 30, 2011)

If you have plugged in into your mac then the mac has a SQLLite database of all your stuff from the last time you did.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 30, 2011)

iPhone Explorer app on the Mac might help you out too.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 30, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> I'm a knob head. I rarely sync'd my iphone with my mac because i hate the word 'sync'. I certainly never sync'd it with this laptop because i bought it a weeka go.


I think you are fucked then. Sorry.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 1, 2011)

mwgdrwg said:


> Hmm, that leaves the iPod Touch and the tiny touchscreen Nano...neither of which I want to be honest.



I actually think they are crazy to get rid of the classic. A 160Gb touch would be super expensive,  based on the cost 64Gb touch, it'd be 700 quid or so.  It might not be a massive seller but it will always have a market to the obsessive and the traveller.


----------



## Me76 (Oct 1, 2011)

I love my classic. Even though the hard drive is slightly fucked at the mo.  

When it dies completely I am not sure I'd be happy paying apple money for the other choices.


----------



## electroplated (Oct 1, 2011)

oops - wrong thread


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 3, 2011)

Went into O2 store because my contract runs out next week and i have no phone now, was asking about new iphone date. lady says next one out will be iphone 4.5, and that in UK it could be anytime over next 3 months.

not sure if this is news to anyone.


----------



## Kanda (Oct 3, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> Went into O2 store because my contract runs out next week and i have no phone now, was asking about new iphone date. lady says next one out will be iphone 4.5, and that in UK it could be anytime over next 3 months.
> 
> not sure if this is news to anyone.



The announcement is tomorrow. O2 lady probably being as speculative as everyone else...


----------



## Sunray (Oct 6, 2011)

I'm looking forward to iOS 5.

Been so long since it was announced that its been forgotten that its not actually installed on the main user base and all the features it comes with. I'm looking forward to the new notification if nothing else.


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 11, 2011)

iTunes 10.5 available for download right now!

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/hardware/itunes-105-available-for-download-now/15333


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 11, 2011)

Yup, downloaded although it doesn't do much without iOS5!


----------



## Callum91 (Oct 12, 2011)

What time is iOS5 expected to be ready for download?


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 12, 2011)

Callum91 said:


> What time is iOS5 expected to be ready for download?


I wondered that too so I tried Gooling it.  Seems people expect it at 6pm UK time.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 12, 2011)

Yeah, 6pm is 9am on the west coast.  We shall get to see how well all the cloud computing is performing.


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 12, 2011)

So much for 6pm.


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 12, 2011)

It's out!!


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 12, 2011)

Needs iTunes updated before download


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 12, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> Needs iTunes updated before download


Why didn't you update it before?


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 12, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> Why didn't you update it before?




Wasn't thinking and now their servers are dead slow (5 hours update time ) that'll learn me!


----------



## Sunray (Oct 12, 2011)

'It might take up to an hour to complete'

Blimey, are they doing that for dramatic license?


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 12, 2011)

Seems there's 3200 errors galore.


----------



## elbows (Oct 12, 2011)

I've been unable to update a iPhone 4 that I've got on temporary loan from work, had errors which I assume are due to overloaded apple servers at the checking/authorising stage. Unfortunately I wondered whether the download may have ben corrupt, so I deleted it and doomed myself to a multi-hour wait for it to download all over again, slower than when I first downloaded earlier in the evening. Oops.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 12, 2011)

I got a corrupted download and had to restart. What I find a tad odd is there is now an extra 5G of memory used logged in yellow as 'other' on my info strip I can't account for - iCloud wouldn't reserve its own partition, would it?

Shit I hope this doesn't mean I have to reset and reload.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 12, 2011)

What's everyone's impression of it so far?


----------



## OneStrike (Oct 12, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> What's everyone's impression of it so far?



still 38 mins remaining.  1st impression is that the minutes aren't based on a presumed number of seconds.


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 12, 2011)

Downloading the update is the easy bit.  It's getting it to install that's hard.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 13, 2011)

Oops. Think I just posted on the wrong thread :S

I can't newsstand in a folder which is bugging me & I thought there was supposed to be a camera icon on the standby slider screen. 

Not tried any of the cloud stuff yet or had any notifications either.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 13, 2011)

& I've made a big list of to do stuff, in the Reminders app, which I will no doubt never complete


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 13, 2011)

DIMPLES1 said:


> ... I thought there was supposed to be a camera icon on the standby slider screen...


Double click the home button to bring it up.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 13, 2011)

what a fucking palaver it's enough to make me consider switching phones actually...

So update Itunes... ok then hit the update button...

download install... fail...

why cos apperntly even though I've got the 64bit itunes installed the update changes this to the 32 bit version ... nice apple really nice...

so have to hunt down a new copy of itunes64 on the oh so helpful and intuitive apple site...

then itunes won't uninstall properly and I need to manually uninstall ....

Then Itunes won't back up my phone... apparently it cannot back up to this computer ... find out this means it's not properly deleted the old back files and is now rewriting to the same temp directory have to delete backups to get it working again....

Then itunes won't see the phone denys it's there...

switch ports and finally it see's the damn thing it does it's usual back up sync etc then downloads the ios5 update...

it then does another back up which hangs and crashes itunes... (quick question apple why does the back up in itunes take 4 mins and the back up for an update not use the same fucking procedure and why have you removed the option to skip the back up if I've just done a fucking backup... )

so after 7 hours of trying to update to ios5 and getting no joy I'm giving up fuck it I'll buy a 5 maybe when they come out but frankly apple I might get something which fucking works without some tethering POS program you can't even get to auto update to the right version....

Seriously apple with software this bad you're in danger of becoming sony... and look how well mini disks survived...


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 13, 2011)

I had to do a factory reset to reclaim 5.4GB of memory that had inexplicable been used by the update, left it overnight to reload my content and it's now working perfectly (seemingly).

What a palaver, bet this shit don't happen on an android


----------



## Crispy (Oct 13, 2011)

Reader in safari is fantastic. Turns any ad-filled, multi-page article into a cleanly laid out column of text and images. Combined with proper tabs, I can stop using iCab.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 13, 2011)

still restoreing finally got the fucking thing to do the update wish I hadn't now I have to go to work... this is totally not practical for a phone.  apple you need to work out a better way of doing this before the 5 or I'm gone I'm an adult I have things to do which doesn't involve spending 12 hours updating my sodding phone...


----------



## sim667 (Oct 13, 2011)

Managed to get my ipad done last night.

New safari is great, and liking the notifications.

COuldnt get my phone done last night, so gonna do it tonight and play with the camera etc.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 13, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Reader in safari is fantastic. Turns any ad-filled, multi-page article into a cleanly laid out column of text and images...


Nicely accessible too with font size options.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> still restoreing finally got the fucking thing to do the update wish I hadn't now I have to go to work... this is totally not practical for a phone. apple you need to work out a better way of doing this before the 5 or I'm gone I'm an adult I have things to do which doesn't involve spending 12 hours updating my sodding phone...



They have, its one of the features in iOS5. Future updates will be downloaded & installed by the device itself, you won't need a computer to update it.


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 13, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> still restoreing finally got the fucking thing to do the update wish I hadn't now I have to go to work... this is totally not practical for a phone. apple you need to work out a better way of doing this before the 5 or I'm gone I'm an adult I have things to do which doesn't involve spending 12 hours updating my sodding phone...


You won't need iTunes to do the next update.  iOS 5 lets you do it from your device.  In fact with iOS 5 you don't require a computer to sync with at all!


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 13, 2011)

I hate iTunes with a passion. It really fucked up the data storage on my crappy laptop. One of the reasons we decided to update to a mac mini & iPad. My phone updated easily, just took a few hours. Left MrD's overnight, gonna check on it shortly.  I hope the pad & pod go smoothly too.

I liked my notifications when I woke up this morning.

Still updating some of my apps for cloud comparability. I'm very excited about the Pages & Numbers auto updated on all devices.

How did everybody else set their new setting?

I was unsure about daily backup to cloud or computer. Went for cloud.


----------



## DIMPLES1 (Oct 13, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> Double click the home button to bring it up.



Brilliant. Thanks a lot. Gonna be using this one a lot


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

I am sticking to backing up on my computer for now, but am using the rest of the iCloud.

With the exception of photo stream which we are moaning about on another thread, I really like everything that comes with iOS5. I was tired by the time I got the update on, but I was slightly surprised that the 'reminder by location' stuff is kind of tucked away quite deeply inside the Reminders app. I guess it will be more instantly accessible with the iPhone 4s when using the voice thingy.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

The double-click home button to get to camera quickly, and the use of volume up button to take a shot, is indeed as handy as it sounds.

Find my friends app is a little bit freaky but I can think of a few scenarios where it will be bloody useful, and the ability to share location with others for a limited period of time stops this stuff from being a complete nightmare.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 13, 2011)

Im actually pretty fucked off. Ive lost loads of photos and videos off my phone...... I had syncd and backed up, but the backup kept failing GRRRR!


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 13, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Im actually pretty fucked off. Ive lost loads of photos and videos off my phone...... I had syncd and backed up, but the backup kept failing GRRRR!


I lost a lot of stuff too, including stuff from my back-up - fortunately I'd inadvertently activated iCloud before my update so got it all back.


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

Oh dear thats not good, one of the worst faults that can happen.

I'll be assisting with at least 10 upgrades at work in the coming days, all of them using windows. So I fear there is a good chance I may see this problem myself. Im presently too tired as to hazard a guess as to whats causing it, whether there is a way to avoid it, etc.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 13, 2011)

I can't install iOS5 at the moment because I don't have the disk space to fully back up my phone and would lose all the media off it if I did.

Well, I actually do have the space as I've moved my user folder via a hard link off my ssd onto a 2Tb disk.  iTunes does a check and can't know this so says there isn't enough space and just offers to delete all my media to upgrade it.  I'm not so keen on that.

The main issue is that iTunes does not let you move the back up location.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 13, 2011)

elbows said:


> I am sticking to backing up on my computer for now, but am using the rest of the iCloud.
> 
> With the exception of photo stream which we are moaning about on another thread, I really like everything that comes with iOS5. I was tired by the time I got the update on, but I was slightly surprised that the 'reminder by location' stuff is kind of tucked away quite deeply inside the Reminders app. I guess it will be more instantly accessible with the iPhone 4s when using the voice thingy.



Haven't worked that out yet. Oh yeah where is the find my friends app? Really like the Cards app, very very clever. Reckon that'll be a big success...


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh yeah where is the find my friends app?



You have to download it via the app store.


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 13, 2011)

It shares the same horrendous faux stitching as iCal


----------



## sim667 (Oct 13, 2011)

maldwyn said:


> I lost a lot of stuff too, including stuff from my back-up - fortunately I'd inadvertently activated iCloud before my update so got it all back.


I had luck and got a £3 app that retrieve all my photos out of the back up.

I need to check whether vids ate there tho, but there's only 3 or 4 of those


----------



## sim667 (Oct 14, 2011)

Its also saying my iphone capacity is only 28 gig..... surely IOS 5 cant use 4 gig of storage?


----------



## Structaural (Oct 14, 2011)

My internet went down on Monday, I'll have to watch from the sidelines...


----------



## maximilian ping (Oct 14, 2011)

Just got the new iphone4S with O2. they gave 16GB handset to me free with 2 year contract, £42 a month, 900 mins, free texts and 500MB bolt on. Chained like a dog, but hay-ho, better than a kick in the balls.

I haven't taken out O2's £12.50 monthly insurance or bought any cases/bumpers/screen films. Is there any way of getting cheaper insurance, cos that's way too much, and anyone know of some good, non-Apple handset protectors?


----------



## maldwyn (Oct 14, 2011)

Steep, that's £1008.00 over two years.

You may be able to add the phone to your household insurance for a small fee, well worth checking.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 14, 2011)

Out fanboying everyone else in line for the iPhone 4s...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 14, 2011)

That's er a little odd but strangely very talented work if that's a haircut!


----------



## Sunray (Oct 16, 2011)

maximilian ping said:


> Just got the new iphone4S with O2. they gave 16GB handset to me free with 2 year contract, £42 a month, 900 mins, free texts and 500MB bolt on. Chained like a dog, but hay-ho, better than a kick in the balls.
> 
> I haven't taken out O2's £12.50 monthly insurance or bought any cases/bumpers/screen films. Is there any way of getting cheaper insurance, cos that's way too much, and anyone know of some good, non-Apple handset protectors?



Thats how much it tends to be, mainly because to replace it its 500 quid. 150 quid a year for insuring it is about what it costs. I get it as part of my bank package which costs me that, do you pay for your bank services?


----------



## sim667 (Oct 17, 2011)

Box.net are doing free 50gb accounts if you sign up through their iOS app within 50 days (from the 15th of October). iOS only.

Good replacement for those losing their iDisks when me.com gets switched off next year


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 18, 2011)

I'm not sure about that, I've seen a few things which suggest to get decent use out of it you have to have their desktop client which you pay for...


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2011)

Security expert finds that Apple's app store is not immune to malware. Expert then booted off the Apple developer program.


> A few hours after Mr Miller disclosed the flaw, he received an email from Apple which said he was barred from the iOS developer program for violating its terms and conditions.
> 
> He wrote on Twitter: "First they give researchers access to developer programs, (although I paid for mine) then they kick them out.. for doing research. Me angry."
> 
> ...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15635408


----------



## Crispy (Nov 8, 2011)

Well he _did_ create and upload to the store an app that bybassed security and could transmit user data to his private server. That's against the T&C's. Not very clever really.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Well he _did_ create and upload to the store an app that bybassed security and could transmit user data to his private server. That's against the T&C's. Not very clever really.


How else could he proved that the flaw existed?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 9, 2011)

editor said:


> How else could he proved that the flaw existed?


Describing it in detail would be enough. Apple engineers would be able to test it.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Describing it in detail would be enough. Apple engineers would be able to test it.


Because Apple's interest in talking swiftly, directly and openly to developers is, of course, legendary.


----------



## Kanda (Nov 9, 2011)

There's a whole submitting your app process, where the developer could quite easily have pointed it out/raised awareness.


----------



## elbows (Nov 9, 2011)

You are simply wrong on this one editor, Apple take security flaws seriously.


----------



## souljacker (Nov 9, 2011)

editor said:


> How else could he proved that the flaw existed?


There is an accepted way of doing this that usually involves telling the company about the flaw, waiting 30 days, then announcing the flaw to the press. What this chap did is not the way to go about things.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2011)

> Charlie Miller, a longtime Mac hacker, has earned himself a bit of notoriety this week by revealing a security hole in iOS and losing his Apple Developer Program license in the process. He managed to identify an exception introduced from iOS 4.3 onwards that allows the browser to run unsigned code in memory, which he then expanded to include other apps, thereby skipping the code-signing check that is fundamental to iOS security. The result, as demonstrated in the video below, is that seemingly benign apps can make use of that exception to download and run unchecked and unauthorized code through the system. ..
> 
> Needless to say, this is a pretty major vulnerability in the typically ironclad App Store defenses, and Charlie's decided to keep the particulars of the flaw under wraps until the SyScan conference in Taipei in order to give Apple time to patch the problem. The first response from Cupertino, however, has been to yank Charlie's app from the App Store — understandable, since it is a form of malware — and his name from its Developer Program. The latter move is likely motivated by the fact Charlie opted to publish his findings in app form (and thereby clearly breaking Apple's rules for developers), but it still strikes us as draconian when the man's trying to alert Apple to the problem instead of exploiting it for his own gain.
> http://www.theverge.com/2011/11/8/2...-an-ios-app-vulnerability-loses-his-developer



The app contained no malicious code, btw.


----------



## 2hats (Nov 9, 2011)

elbows said:


> Apple take security flaws seriously.



They take bad PR seriously.

They don't appear to take security so seriously (a bit like most of their traditional customer base). They make M$ security look competent these days.

For example, they didn't revoke the DigiNotar Root CA compromised certificates in OSX for 10 days (when others revoked them pretty much immediately). They didn't revoke them in iOS for over 6 weeks. Mozilla and M$ revoked them within 24 hours.

Holes have festered in OSX for months, when the patches, to what are at their core open source packages, have long since been produced by others (cache poisoning holes in BIND, CVE-2008-1447, buffer overflows in CUPS, CVE-2009-0163, are but two that come to mind).

They've created their own holes (or re-introduced old ones) - for example the recent LDAP authentication debacle in Lion, CVE-2011-3435 (which only took them some 6 weeks to fix - what ever happened to QA testing before throwing these things out the door?).

Apache's CVE-2011-3192 is another. 7 weeks to fix when solutions were available in hours, the 'official' fix release in 14 days.

It would appear that they dropped the security ball some time ago. Probably about the time that Apple Computer Inc., became Apple Inc. and decided to focus on the shiny, shiny phones (and then tablets).


----------



## elbows (Nov 9, 2011)

Well perhaps they have become somewhat complacent due to a lack of malware targeting their systems. Perhaps they will learn the hard way, perhaps its not much of an issue in the wild.


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 9, 2011)

I have a 2year-old 3GS and want to sell it for a 4 or 4s.  With view to having a phone for a year, until the 5 comes out, I'm guessing my best option is to get a black 16gb 4S sim free from Apple (499pound) - because I can't see a 16gb 4 on the Apple site? - and shove in a giffgaff sim...unless Orange, who have better 3G coverage are doing a better deal?  I'm a valued o2 customer if that helps, but given their charging for data coverage, I hope to leave unless customers know how I can bag 1gb/unlimited data allowance with a new phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 9, 2011)

Kanda said:


> There's a whole submitting your app process, where the developer could quite easily have pointed it out/raised awareness.



Yeah but that wouldn't give the screaming ninnies something to complain about though would it?


----------



## 2hats (Nov 9, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah but that wouldn't give the screaming ninnies something to complain about though would it?



Certainly a lot harder to investigate if Apple PR have buried or spun it away.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 9, 2011)

2hats said:


> Certainly a lot harder to investigate if Apple PR have buried or spun it away.



How would they do that if the guy that discovered it could just go public anyway?


----------



## 2hats (Nov 9, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> How would they do that if the guy that discovered it could just go public anyway?



If he spelled the security issue out to them, assuming the penny dropped, then they could claim they would have vetted the app and not permitted it in the iOS app store.

But they didn't. He submitted his app to them. Apple approved it and put it in the store.

They let it in. Which really was the point of the exercise.

It gets more interesting though.

It appears he actually did notify Apple of the iOS security flaw that the app itself exploited back on 14th October (he mentions this on his twitter account and it's reported in coverage of the story by various news outlets)...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 9, 2011)

Seriously when you have reams of coverage for a battery issue that doesn't even affect 1% of owners anything negative about Apple security would be leapt on.


----------



## 2hats (Nov 9, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> anything negative about Apple security would be leapt on.



Yes, it has been:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2011/11/08/apple_excommunicates_charlie_miller/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-15635408

Unfortunately other lax security practices of Apple, not so directly or so obviously associated with the shiny, shiny, don't tend to attract the same degree of publicity.


----------



## RaverDrew (Nov 10, 2011)

New iOS 5.0.1 Update ‘Nothing Short of Amazing’


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2011)

RaverDrew said:


> New iOS 5.0.1 Update ‘Nothing Short of Amazing’


...said some Wired reader.

Apparently the phone now defies the laws of physics:

_“Frankly the difference is nothing short of amazing,” said Wired reader Donald Kuntzman, who downloaded the update on his Verizon iPhone 4. “To go almost an entire day without a change in the meter reading seems unbelievable. Where before I could almost watch the battery drain, now it doesn’t move at all.”_

I wish my phone could go 'almost an entire day' without _any_ change in the meter reading. His phone must be powered by pixies now. Or air-borne plankton.


----------



## elbows (Nov 10, 2011)

Or your negativity. Its feeding off the bad vibes man.


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> Or your negativity. Its feeding off the bad vibes man.


If I get really negative, perhaps the phone will actually start to recharge itself. In my bare hands!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 10, 2011)

editor said:


> If I get really negative, perhaps the phone will actually start to recharge itself. In my bare hands!


as any fule noe positivity charges things negativity is draining...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 10, 2011)

RaverDrew said:


> New iOS 5.0.1 Update ‘Nothing Short of Amazing’



Wow that will keep the fandroids busy.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 10, 2011)

Well I've returned to Apple after my 18 month fling with Android on the Desire. 

I'm loving having all my old iPhone apps back and their new and improved versions. 
Loving many of the new apps I've downloaded. 

I was severely limited by the Bravo's internal memory as to how many apps I could have. Now I'm in quality app heaven. 

I must admit though that I miss being able to turn mobile browsing off. But what if I don't want the mobile site but the full site!? Grrr. 

And I'm missing the way my Android browsing squeezed all the text onto the screen so you didn't have to scroll. 

Otherwise I'm lovin my 4S.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 10, 2011)

If you use a 3rd party browser like iCab, you can change your browser ID to desktop safari and get the full version every time.
Although iphone Safari does have the Reader function now, which is excellent for removing all the extraneous guff around an article.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 10, 2011)

iOS5.1 has been released. I guess the millions that where affected by the battery issue will be happy to hear that.


----------



## elbows (Nov 10, 2011)

Thats 5.0.1, Im glad its available a an over-the-air update since I have numerous devices to support at work and now hopefully users will just do it for themselves.


----------



## editor (Nov 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> Thats 5.0.1, Im glad its available a an over-the-air update since I have numerous devices to support at work and now hopefully users will just do it for themselves.


Judging by the Apple support forums, the update isn't working for everyone. There's some angry folks on there!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> Thats 5.0.1, Im glad its available a an over-the-air update since I have numerous devices to support at work and now hopefully users will just do it for themselves.



For some reason it never showed up on my phone so had to update the old fashion way. 800mbs later...and er it's still working great!


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 11, 2011)

What do you know.  They updated Stanza!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 19, 2011)

Interesting new iPhone 4S related experience. A family member just got one (they've always had normal Nokia style phones and never had any interest in smartphones), had text messages all week asking how to do stuff! Looks like the 4S is a little more feature packed for the novice than iPhones used to be...


----------



## editor (Nov 22, 2011)

Turn your iPhone into the ugliest camera around with this ludicrous attachment:







http://www.wirefresh.com/turn-your-...om-camera-with-this-249-lens-dial-attachment/


----------



## Me76 (Nov 22, 2011)

$250!!!   That is hysterical!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 22, 2011)

The 4S has a fantastic camera but this is just plain nuts! Can't even see your average camera geek wanting something this absurd...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 22, 2011)

Haha had my iPhone 4S for just over five weeks and have used 3.8 gigabytes of data in downloads! All you can eat data from 3 is sweeeeet!


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2011)

You can also get some gizmo for the iPhone that lets you attach SLR lenses to it.....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 25, 2011)

Oh yeah seen that one! Personally I've found the camera on the 4s fucking great so much so that I never bring my point and shoot out with me anymore but if I needed anything more I'd buy a camera not get some odd attachment...


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 28, 2011)

Finally got a 4 from ebay after having my 3gs for a couple years.

Cancelled my exisiting 02 rolling and opted for a giffgaff thing for the 4, till something better comes out next year or whenever.

I would like to

1) save all my 3gs content onto my computer
2) plug in my 4 to the laptop, to download the latest update, BUT want nothing, including my contacts, from the 3gs to be on my 4
3) delete all content from my 3gs so I can sell it on

I don't plug in my iphone too often to the laptop, so don't have much of a clue

So, do I plug my 3gs, drag and drop all pics, music to my laptop, then delete the old itunes.  Then plug in my 4 afresh, let the new itunes download and new software update?  Then somehow factory reset the 3gs?

Clueless, as you can tell, please help!


----------



## sim667 (Nov 28, 2011)

plug in your 4, when prompted 'do you want to set this up as a new phone' click 'yes'

plug in 3gs and click restore. Just restore it as a new phone, not from backup.

As for backing up all of your 3gs content, syncing with the computer *should* save all your pics and contacts, apps, and purchased music to your computer.........

I think thats right anyway, I've been on icloud/mobileme for a good couple of years so not 100% sure about contacts etc.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 28, 2011)

Why do you want to back up your 3GS if you're not going to transfer that info to the 4?


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 28, 2011)

Sorry, just to add, I want to ONLY transfer the apps from the 3gs to the 4.  So how would the above process differ please, sim667, or anyone?

Crispy, just want to back up old pics mainly, which I don't want transferring to the new device, just the laptop.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 28, 2011)

The apps are linked to the iTunes account registered for that phone, rather than specifically phone data.

If you want to transfer the _data connected to those apps_ - saved games, scores, documents, settings etc - then I think you will have to restore the new phone from the backup of the old one, and then delete everything you don't want on it afterwards.


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 28, 2011)

Basically I want to do it this way incase the 4 remembers any autofill data, eg email addresses, contacts, etc from the 3gs, which I do not require it to.

So will restoring the new phone from the 3gs back, remember some of the pointless autofill etc?

If it doesn't backup the autofill, then I don't mind doing that, and then manually deleting some of the old pictures, data etc that I want to get rid of on the new phone.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 28, 2011)

I'm not sure, but if sync the phone as your old one, then turn off all the stuff you don't want, that should sort it

Why don't you want passwords and everything?


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 30, 2011)

Don't mind keeping passwords, purchased apps, even some music and pictures to the new device.  Need to get rid of some contacts too.

But I received unsolicited emails, which seem to be saved in autofill, which I hate in general, and despite not responding to the emails and having just read them, they still, for some reason, appear in autofill.

So will restoring the new phone from the back up of the old one then get rid of the autofill?

If not, what's the best way round it?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Nov 30, 2011)

google.


----------



## kazza007 (Nov 30, 2011)

Google has ALLLLLLLLLLLL the answers 

Apple iPhone thread on one of the most busy forums on the Internet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 3, 2011)

Yep. Someone I know bought a 3GS recently, incredible that a 2 and a half year old phone still is selling...


----------



## Sunray (Dec 6, 2011)

Was it a man or woman? I had fairly heated discussion about the shape of the 3G/3GS being more attractive to woman,  the 4 being a more manly design with its architectural sharp edges.

3GS can handle iOS5.  Just don't use a 4 before you get one. The 3GS screen looks like a retro video game compared.

I was wondering about the original competitors to the 3G and I found this

http://www.mobilewhack.com/top-ten-list-of-iphone-3g-competitors/

Made me chuckle. The 3G still looks good I reckon, uncommon in tech devices to continue to look good years after its release, testament to Jonathan Ives skill. Compared to the rabble of crappy hardware and software that was pitched against it at the time, it looks a masterpiece.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2011)

Female, that's an odd one, I've not noticed any significant gender issue when choosing tbh...


----------



## sim667 (Dec 6, 2011)

I was lookin at switching my iPhone 4 to giffgaff but it looks like you can't use the personal hotspot with them ..... Does anyone know any work around??


----------



## editor (Dec 6, 2011)

sim667 said:


> I was lookin at switching my iPhone 4 to giffgaff but it looks like you can't use the personal hotspot with them ..... Does anyone know any work around??


I've been using my phone as a hotspot on GiffGaff with no probs, but that's only occasionally.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 6, 2011)

editor said:


> I've been using my phone as a hotspot on GiffGaff with no probs, but that's only occasionally.


don't u have a galaxy or something though??


----------



## editor (Dec 6, 2011)

sim667 said:


> don't u have a galaxy or something though??


Sorry, I forgot - Apple have blocked the network for tethering. There was some posts about this earlier somewhere.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 6, 2011)

They haven't blocked it, they haven't released a carrier file for it, however as giffgaff piggybacks of o2 I'm wondering whether its possible to edit the carrier file to allow it to work.


----------



## editor (Dec 6, 2011)

sim667 said:


> They haven't blocked it, they haven't released a carrier file for it, however as giffgaff piggybacks of o2 I'm wondering whether its possible to edit the carrier file to allow it to work.


It's locked out by Apple because GiffGaff aren't one of their "official carriers." Android and other users don't have this trouble.

More: http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Co...on/iPhone-Personal-Hotspot/td-p/508475/page/3


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

editor said:


> It's locked out by Apple because GiffGaff aren't one of their "official carriers." Android and other users don't have this trouble.
> 
> More: http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Co...on/iPhone-Personal-Hotspot/td-p/508475/page/3


sorry are you attempting to blame apple for giffgaff offering a service for handsets they don't support...

GiffGaff should cease selling sim cards for phones they don't support on their network it's not like any other phone uses a micro sim yet so its not like they are using a default sim or something which is industry standard...


----------



## editor (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> sorry are you attempting to blame apple for giffgaff offering a service for handsets they don't support...


To repeat: It's locked out by Apple *because GiffGaff aren't one of their "official carriers."*

I'm just stating the facts.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

editor said:


> To repeat: It's locked out by Apple *because GiffGaff aren't one of their "official carriers."*
> 
> I'm just stating the facts.


To repeat.  Apple lock out all partners who have not signed their deal to provide certain service levels.  So GIFFGAFF are selling a service they know they cannot support.

How is this Apples fault?

and you're not just reporting it, otherwise you would have said GiffGaff don't support tethering on their network not Apple have locked it out which isn't true as this is the case for all carriers who haven't signed up to the Apple TOS.

You are putting a spin on it to support your standard defacto anti apple sentiment...

So no you're not stating facts you are spinning something to portray it as such...

which in most circles would be considered dishonest...


----------



## editor (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> To repeat. Apple lock out all partners who have not signed their deal to provide certain service levels. So GIFFGAFF are selling a service they know they cannot support.


I'm not 'blaming' Apple and Giffgaff aren't 'selling the service' either.

I'm just stating the _facts_, annoying though they may be for iPhone users wanting to take advantage of GiffGaff's generally excellent service.
Now calm down and stop making a twat of yourself.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

so there's no specific micro sim for Iphones then... no giffgaff goodiebags etc... nothing being sold etc...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> To repeat.  Apple lock out all partners who have not signed their deal to provide certain service levels.  So GIFFGAFF are selling a service they know they cannot support.
> 
> How is this Apples fault?
> 
> ...



You should stop this Garf, you and Editor's constant fighting is ruining threads, it's only you two that engage in this, no one else proving you're at fault! You're both like two sides of the same stuck record. Etc etc...


----------



## editor (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> so there's no specific micro sim for Iphones then... no giffgaff goodiebags etc... nothing being sold etc...


You an use unlocked iPhones on GiffGaff.
http://support.giffgaff.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/155/~/will-an-iphone-work-on-giffgaff?

There's even a printable A4 leaflet showing iPhone users how to use the service.
http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Le...de-to-iPhone-4/m-p/52685/highlight/true#M1517


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You should stop this Garf, you and Editor's constant fighting is ruining threads, it's only you two that engage in this, no one else proving you're at fault! You're both like two sides of the same stuck record. Etc etc...


oh stop being so sensative.  The editor and I disagree on many things but there's no written law that he has to agree with me...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

editor said:


> You an use unlocked iPhones on GiffGaff.
> http://support.giffgaff.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/155/~/will-an-iphone-work-on-giffgaff?
> 
> There's even a printable A4 leaflet showing iPhone users how to use the service.
> http://community.giffgaff.com/t5/Le...de-to-iPhone-4/m-p/52685/highlight/true#M1517


I know but in order for me to use a 4s on their service I still need a specific sim, ditto for the 4.

They know that they can't offer this service as they aren't an authorised supplier, they've not signed up to the TOS for the iphone.

Now I'm happy to admit this is barbaric walled garden and despicable behaviour from apple to lock out a paid for consumer handset based on whether or not they've paid a fatted cow fee to apple.

the fact is they can't say they support a phone model which they actually don't so why provide the the sim for them?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> oh stop being so sensative.  The editor and I disagree on many things but there's no written law that he has to agree with me...



Lol I ain't being, it was sarcasm.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol I ain't being, it was sarcasm.


which works so well in text uh huh????


----------



## sim667 (Dec 6, 2011)

Its not to do with giffgaff, they're selling a sim only service......

And its pointless giffgaff agreeing to service standards for handsets when they don't even sell handsets.....

Its my choice to put a giffgaff sim in an iPhone.... because its £10 a month for what I currently pay £45 a month for....... The only drawback is the personal hotspot, which is still nothing a jailbreak wouldn't solve.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

dude it's totally a carrier issue.

they are giving out a sim for a phone which won't work on them with a full gammut of services.

as this is a specific sim for specific phone why bother giving them out at all?


----------



## RaverDrew (Dec 6, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Its not to do with giffgaff, they're selling a sim only service......
> 
> And its pointless giffgaff agreeing to service standards for handsets when they don't even sell handsets.....
> 
> Its my choice to put a giffgaff sim in an iPhone.... because its £10 a month for what I currently pay £45 a month for....... The only drawback is the personal hotspot, which is still nothing a jailbreak wouldn't solve.



3mobile do a similar deal on payg but allow tethering


----------



## Structaural (Dec 6, 2011)

Do completely unlocked iPhones allow tethering? I guess they should as they are carrier independent, but do they?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> which works so well in text uh huh????



Yup, yours came through loud and clear.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Do completely unlocked iPhones allow tethering? I guess they should as they are carrier independent, but do they?



No idea. Apparently you can tether if your on 3's unlimited data tariff although not tried it out yet...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup, yours came through loud and clear.


well obviously that's cos my prose is more scintillating than yours...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> well obviously that's cos my prose is more scintillating than yours...



Indeed it is, you're well known for it in fact.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 6, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed it is, you're well known for it in fact.


oh a witty retort from a debonair gent...


----------



## sim667 (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> dude it's totally a carrier issue.
> 
> they are giving out a sim for a phone which won't work on them with a full gammut of services.
> 
> as this is a specific sim for specific phone why bother giving them out at all?


it's not s specific sim for the iPhone, it's a generic sim


----------



## sim667 (Dec 6, 2011)

RaverDrew said:


> 3mobile do a similar deal on payg but allow tethering


but then I'd have to be on 3 again


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2011)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> oh a witty retort from a debonair gent...


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 7, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> No idea. Apparently you can tether if your on 3's unlimited data tariff although not tried it out yet...



I can do it on 3 PAYG (non unlimited).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 7, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> I can do it on 3 PAYG (non unlimited).



Ah very cool. Yeah I've heard 3 is pretty good for this but so far I've not needed to tether so haven't tested it. Anyone tethered their iPhone with their iPad on 3 out of curiosity?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 7, 2011)

sim667 said:


> it's not s specific sim for the iPhone, it's a generic sim


name a product outside of apple products which currently uses micro sims... nope times up... answer there aren't any on the market... ergo it's a phone specific sim...


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 8, 2011)

Tell me, the iphone 4s, can you use it as a wireless hotspot like I can currently with my HTC desire?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 8, 2011)

Boris Sprinkler said:


> Tell me, the iphone 4s, can you use it as a wireless hotspot like I can currently with my HTC desire?


yes you can technically use it as a wifi hotspot no you cannot use it as the HTC desire because of the way the carriers in the UK have requested the data functions to be limited... technically they are the same implamentations these restrictions are carrier specific.

For example on O2 tethering a desire to use it's wifi etc and hotspot = no addtional fees or software it does it out of the box.
Iphone on 02 with the equiverlent package  no tethering allow = Tethering avaialble as a £15.99 bolt on for precisely the same data package... the phones capable the phone companies are blocking them...  turning it into a paid service.

Added to which buy any unlocked desire and use it for tethering on any network buy an unlocked Iphone and be limited by the networks citing apple contracts...


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm not in the UK. They can't get away with shafting us like that here - contracts are maximum 6 months for instance. I was just wondering if it was capable. Since I don't have internet at home, I just use my desire S's connection, which is plenty fast enough, with enough data transfer.
It's just I would like a new phone soon, and I like the look of the iphone 4s. THe galaxy S 2 or the nexus are just not looking good in my opinion.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Dec 8, 2011)

I mean technically you can and it's a free service via verzion in the states so see what your local carriers will or won't do as part of the package...


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Dec 8, 2011)

that's cool. Cheers.


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 8, 2011)

Flipboard is now out for iPhone!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 8, 2011)

And it's fucking GREAT!


----------



## sim667 (Dec 8, 2011)

Fucksake, I've come across a permissions error with the dcim folder on my iPhone and I can't take pics 

Restore it is then


----------



## editor (Dec 8, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Fucksake, I've come across a permissions error with the dcim folder on my iPhone and I can't take pics
> 
> Restore it is then


Does this work: Right click on the DCIM folder and select Properties.

You will see a window. In the middle of the window you will see the permissions. In the “octal” box replace the existing numbers with 0750.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 9, 2011)

Well the software I've got to look doesn't have a properties box.

It's called iexplore

I did actually delete the dcim, but it rebuilt it with the same problem. I cleared out whatever plists I thought might have been keeping a cache of the camera roll too


----------



## editor (Dec 9, 2011)

Sorry, the bit I missed out was that you must first connect your iPhone to your computer through Wi-Fi using SSH - http://www.gev.com/2011/12/how-to-connect-to-your-iphone-through-ssh-using-wi-fi/

Apols for missing that bit out.


----------



## Structaural (Dec 9, 2011)

That only works on Jailbroken phones btw.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 9, 2011)

editor said:


> Sorry, the bit I missed out was that you must first connect your iPhone to your computer through Wi-Fi using SSH - http://www.gev.com/2011/12/how-to-connect-to-your-iphone-through-ssh-using-wi-fi/
> 
> Apols for missing that bit out.



Yeah I'm not jail broken, you can only connect through ssh when your j/b

Then I could just ssh into it and run a sudo chmod command on the dcim folder through terminal.

Oh well, restore.

If I sync it to my computer first and then restore from backup that should sort it yeah? Or will that just restore the dcim folder with the wrong permissions??


----------



## sim667 (Dec 9, 2011)

And now to top it all off I can't listen to my fucking music. Wtf are these poindexters doing with this update?

Id hate to be the customer service representative that has to talk to me on the phone later if a restore doesn't sort it. Especially pissed off as they've been essentially ignoring me regarding a problem with my mac pro that only came about after upgrading to lion


----------



## sim667 (Dec 10, 2011)

Phone sorted, restored as a new phone and resync'd..... Once I know it's all fine I'll switch back to iCloud backups.

I discovered Siri couldn't answer the question 'what is consciousness?'...... It's clearly not as good as its be made out


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2011)

A mate for the 4S the other day, he was talking excitedly about Siri to me this afternoon, seems to think it's very cool but is actually quite useful. He's by no means a geek at all so it's interesting to see what a 'normal' person makes of things like this.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 11, 2011)

I've edited my backup so that the panoramic should be enabled now, but I've just realised, restoring from it will mean waiting for my songs to copy over again doesn't it? That takes aaaaaaaagggggeeeeeeessssss!

I've just realised holding my keys down on my mac brings up letter selection like on the iPhone, why has no one ever told me that before?!?


----------



## Structaural (Dec 12, 2011)

Only started with Lion, that.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 12, 2011)

Structaural said:


> Only started with Lion, that.



Ah, thats why Id missed that.

I can do my ACSP exam for Lion online, but im worried about cocking it up without having some kind of training, kinda for that reason.


----------



## editor (Dec 18, 2011)

Just an update on iPhones on Giffgaff:


> The community focus makes pretty good sense, and has produced several handy things – a forum full of helpful people, and an iPhone app for keeping track of my balance.
> 
> The handiest thing about it though involves SIM cards. Giffgaff doesn't provide the Micro-SIMs used by the iPhone 4, but it does reward people for sending cards to people. The result? A cottage industry of users who cut and mail them to new users, completely free.
> http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...he-30-smartphone-tax-1045342?src=rss&attr=all


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 18, 2011)

Cute.


----------



## kazza007 (Dec 25, 2011)

Set up my 4 now, I'm guessing with the latest software.  I noticed from my 3gs, that now my hotmail on the iphone displays all my laptop hotmail folders.  I didn't have this before and don't really need it now.

How do I go about not having this on my 4 please?


----------



## sim667 (Dec 25, 2011)

kazza007 said:


> Set up my 4 now, I'm guessing with the latest software.  I noticed from my 3gs, that now my hotmail on the iphone displays all my laptop hotmail folders.  I didn't have this before and don't really need it now.
> 
> How do I go about not having this on my 4 please?


I think if you set it up as a pop3 account rather than an imap one that will stop it


----------



## kazza007 (Dec 26, 2011)

I don't really know what pop or imap are, and can't find any of those in the settings?  But I set the phone up in the same usual manner as my 3gs, and wondered then, how I can set it up as pop3 to avoid all these private folders on display. TY


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 28, 2011)

Not sure they can be changed on the phone, with Gmail I had to go into it on the web to change the forwarding settings when I first set up Gmail on my iPhone...


----------



## sim667 (Jan 2, 2012)

Right all my other iPhone problems are sorted, but now it won't let me put some new mp3's on my phone. It says it can't convert them (i have the convert to 128kbps option switched on)

There's plenty of room on my phone, and the originals are all mp3


----------



## sim667 (Jan 3, 2012)

Also I need to change my tariff, im still on the unlimited o2 one. I wanted to change to simplicity, but then I lose my unlimited data. I can keep unlimited date if i change to giff gaff, but then i cant use visual voicemail or personal hotspot.....

Does anyone know of any rolling contracts I could go onto to keep my phone running until i go onto a new contract when a model that isnt the 4s comes out?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2012)

3 do a sim only with unlimited data I think...


----------



## editor (Feb 19, 2012)

Good news if you're a US iPhone 4 user:


> *You Can Have $15 or a Bumper Case from Apple’s Antennagate Settlement*
> 
> Apparently, the "you're holding it wrong defense" didn't work as well as Apple had hoped. The company has agreed to settle a class-action lawsuit and will give US iPhone 4 buyers their choice of $15 or a bumper case.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 19, 2012)

Lol what a great settlement, £11 or a crap bit of rubber!


----------



## editor (Feb 21, 2012)

Completely fake, non working Pokemon app somehow ends up in the App Store and despite picking up endless poor reviews saying it doesn't work it rises to be the #2 best selling app. 





> That's why most will likely be surprised to take a look at the iTunes App Store charts right now, with a Pikachu-adorned Pokemon Yellow app sitting pretty at number 2 as of this writing. The app description really does try to pass the game off as an iPhone version of the monster-collecting RPG, with "press quotes" claiming the game is "just like the original," albeit with "full high-resolution Retina Display graphics." The app doesn't work at all, though, crashing on start for seemingly everyone, and unsurprisingly the reviews are full of disappointed customers who want their 99 cents back. The real question is how on earth this managed to get past Apple's supposedly stringent manual review process.
> 
> http://www.theverge.com/2012/2/20/2812849/psa-fake-pokemon-yellow-app-store-iphone


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 21, 2012)

Yeah but anyone willing to download a Pokemon app gets what they deserve, real or not.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 23, 2012)

Phone mock ups are always fun...but this one? Not sure what I think of the design tbh...












Read the full article.


----------



## editor (Feb 23, 2012)

Looks ridiculous, like a Palm Pre colliding with a block of aluminium.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 23, 2012)

It's very uninspired, basically it's just "Hey lets flatten the mouse and make it look like an iPhone'. Plus the headphone jack is in a stupid place.


----------



## maldwyn (Feb 23, 2012)

5 buttons - this would have Mr Jobs spinning in his grave.


----------



## souljacker (Feb 23, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> 5 buttons - this would have Mr Jobs spinning in his grave.


 
iphones have got 5 buttons


----------



## editor (Feb 23, 2012)

souljacker said:


> iphones have got 5 buttons


They must be the right sort of buttons.


----------



## maldwyn (Feb 23, 2012)

Four and a toggle like switch


----------



## souljacker (Feb 23, 2012)

maldwyn said:


> toggle like switch


 
The shittest thing on the whole phone IMO.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 23, 2012)

souljacker said:


> The shittest thing on the whole phone IMO.


 
Never understood why it couldn't just be a button tbh...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 23, 2012)

My sources in Chinese factories, who've proved to be right many times in the past, tell me that the next iPhone will look like a lobster. I'd post the photographic evidence but my Blender guy isn't quite finished yet.


----------



## Winot (Feb 24, 2012)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 24, 2012)

Seems legit.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 25, 2012)

Expect to see the Samsung Crayfish launched a few months afterwards. "Doesn't look anything like it guv, don't know what you're talking about."


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 25, 2012)

Lol!


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 26, 2012)

souljacker said:


> The shittest thing on the whole phone IMO.





Kid_Eternity said:


> Never understood why it couldn't just be a button tbh...


If it were a button how would you be able to instantly tell if it was on or off? A toggle switch accomplishes that.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 26, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> If it were a button how would you be able to instantly tell if it was on or off? A toggle switch accomplishes that.



Would it be that hard to click it and see?


----------



## souljacker (Feb 26, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> If it were a button how would you be able to instantly tell if it was on or off? A toggle switch accomplishes that.


 
An icon on the phone screen, like every other phone since about 1992. As it is, you need to look at the side of the phone to see if you can see the bit of orange.

It always struck me as an afterthought, to be honest.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 26, 2012)

You don't need to look at it, you can feel it - and you can immediately set the phone to silent or loud with it as soon as you have your finger on it, too, just by moving it up or down. I think it's a great design personally; silent or not is the function I find myself using easily the most often in situations where I want no other interaction with the phone, since it mostly affects alerts. I always hated scrabbling around and unlocking phones just to set them to silent; I'd turn them off instead, it was faster.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 26, 2012)

I tend to not forget if I've switched mine to silent or not...


----------



## Leafster (Feb 26, 2012)

souljacker said:


> An icon on the phone screen, like every other phone since about 1992. As it is, you need to look at the side of the phone to see if you can see the bit of orange.
> 
> It always struck me as an afterthought, to be honest.


I've had mine over two years and having read your comment I had a closer look for the orange bit as I'd never noticed it! 



FridgeMagnet said:


> You don't need to look at it, you can feel it - and you can immediately set the phone to silent or loud with it as soon as you have your finger on it, too, just by moving it up or down. I think it's a great design personally; silent or not is the function I find myself using easily the most often in situations where I want no other interaction with the phone, since it mostly affects alerts. I always hated scrabbling around and unlocking phones just to set them to silent; I'd turn them off instead, it was faster.


 
Exactly!


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 26, 2012)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Would it be that hard to click it and see?


Isn't it better to be able see (or feel) instantly? You have no sound, you click the button, still no sound, volume too low (assuming there was nothing wrong with the phone). With the switch you know straight away whether it was the problem.


souljacker said:


> An icon on the phone screen, like every other phone since about 1992. As it is, you need to look at the side of the phone to see if you can see the bit of orange.


So, an icon on the screen that you have to wake up the phone to see is better than an instantly available switch is it?



> It always struck me as an afterthought, to be honest.


It's an excellent piece of design imo. I doubt, given how much they put into design, anything on an Apple product is an after-thought.


----------



## editor (Feb 26, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You don't need to look at it, you can feel it - and you can immediately set the phone to silent or loud with it as soon as you have your finger on it, too, just by moving it up or down.


They nicked that directly from Palm and it's a great design feature. The biggest ommission with the iPhone (and my own S2) is the lack of a LED to tell you if you've missed a call/text etc.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 26, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> Isn't it better to be able see (or feel) instantly? You have no sound, you click the button, still no sound, volume too low (assuming there was nothing wrong with the phone). With the switch you know straight away whether it was the problem.
> 
> So, an icon on the screen that you have to wake up the phone to see is better than an instantly available switch is it?
> 
> ...



Don't get me wrong I don't expect this anytime soon. Perhaps a button on could have a dim pulse light (similar to the sleep light on MBP)? Or an on screen speaker with a strike through icon on the top bar next to the screen lock icon?


----------



## elbows (Feb 27, 2012)

I do like that part of the design, its a perfect use of a toggle switch if ever there was one.


----------



## sumimasen (Feb 27, 2012)

On an unrelated note, Apple are about to pull the very good Evi app from its store. Why? Pornographic? Racist? Illegal? 

No. It's because it's too similar to Siri. 

FACEPALM.


----------



## Bungle73 (Feb 27, 2012)

sumimasen said:


> On an unrelated note, Apple are about to pull the very good Evi app from its store. Why? Pornographic? Racist? Illegal?
> 
> No. It's because it's too similar to Siri.
> 
> FACEPALM.


Why did they approve it then?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 27, 2012)

sumimasen said:


> On an unrelated note, Apple are about to pull the very good Evi app from its store. Why? Pornographic? Racist? Illegal?
> 
> No. It's because it's too similar to Siri.
> 
> FACEPALM.



Apparently Apple aren't pulling it now. Have to say I think the general policy though is stupid; I'd love nothing more than a bunch of Siri wannabes to be on the app store to provide some much needed competition in the voice activated assistant space...


----------



## elbows (Feb 27, 2012)

Well if they aren't pulling it then what is the general policy, how can you say its stupid if they aren't doing it?

In terms of their motivation, I expect they are especially sensitive about this right now as its quite plausible they will bring Siri to the iPad 3 and will want to market that feature as a reason to get the latest shiny thing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 27, 2012)

Feels like a promo campaign for Evi more than anything tbh.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 28, 2012)

Wouldn't surprise me...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 28, 2012)

elbows said:


> Well if they aren't pulling it then what is the general policy, how can you say its stupid if they aren't doing it?
> 
> In terms of their motivation, I expect they are especially sensitive about this right now as its quite plausible they will bring Siri to the iPad 3 and will want to market that feature as a reason to get the latest shiny thing.



That's why I said general policy rather than in this instance. They don't allow a proper full blown browser which I think is crap, I'd love to be able to sync my Chrome bookmarks and have them available on my iPhone...


----------



## editor (Feb 28, 2012)

Look how tiny the earpiece speaker is!







http://www.imore.com/2012/02/28/weekly-mod-replace-earpiece-speaker-iphone-3g-3gs/


----------



## bignose1 (Mar 27, 2012)

Ive just upgraded from a Blackberry curve to an iphone4 on o2 contract.However when I was setting it up for icloud/email etc so I can get apps I entered wrong email address. Ive tried get rid of that one but now I think Ive got password wrong. Its sending me emails I cant read as Ive forgotten/enter wrong password. Im in a mess, what I want to do is erase the email/icloud address..start afresh with old email address and set up new password.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 27, 2012)

i think to change an icloud address you have to change it on itunes and re-sync.


----------



## peterkro (Mar 27, 2012)

I'm not entirely sure I understand the problem and I'm a bit pissed but if your referring to the Apple ID you need to download apps just go to your system preferences and put in your email address and then click forgotten password,they'll send you another.If however I'm talking shit and it's something else altogether just ignore me.Be aware once you get an Apple ID it's a bit tricky to get another although if you've not download anything it should;'t be a problem.


----------



## bignose1 (Mar 28, 2012)

Thanks for the above ...Ill set to it later....just not great in these areas...ta


----------



## Supine (Mar 30, 2012)

So, does the iPhone really have GPS? If yes, why does it need a phone signal to know where it is?


----------



## sim667 (Mar 30, 2012)

Supine said:


> So, does the iPhone really have GPS? If yes, why does it need a phone signal to know where it is?


 
I think its assisted GPS iirc, uses gps, but then triangulates with phone masts for increased accuracy.


----------



## 2hats (Mar 30, 2012)

sim667 said:


> I think its assisted GPS iirc, uses gps, but then triangulates with phone masts for increased accuracy.


 
AGPS is the other way round. Gets positional/timing clues from cell data/wifi geolocation to get an initial position estimate that can then in turn be used to converge the GPS solutions faster (and more approximately) whilst more GPS fixes are acquired (which in turn narrow down the circle of error).

e2a: you can see this if you open (eg) Google Maps from a cold start. The blue 'circle of uncertainty' representing your position initially starts off quite wide (data from geocoding of wifi signals), then gradually narrows as mobile phone data, initial GPS and finally steady GPS lock (of several satellites) is obtained - the circle collapses to the blue dot (you are here).


----------



## sim667 (Mar 30, 2012)

2hats said:


> AGPS is the other way round. Gets positional/timing clues from cell data/wifi geolocation to get an initial position estimate that can then in turn be used to converge the GPS solutions faster (and more approximately) whilst more GPS fixes are acquired (which in turn narrow down the circle of error).
> 
> e2a: you can see this if you open (eg) Google Maps from a cold start. The blue 'circle of uncertainty' representing your position initially starts off quite wide (data from geocoding of wifi signals), then gradually narrows as mobile phone data, initial GPS and finally steady GPS lock (of several satellites) is obtained - the circle collapses to the blue dot (you are here).



Nearly had it


----------



## 2hats (Mar 30, 2012)

Another lawsuit against Siri. But the most interesting thing (that article led me to) were the comments from Woz regarding his experiences with it, which I hadn't seen before:



> “I used to ask Siri, ‘What are the five biggest lakes in California?’ and it would come back with the answer. Now it just misses. It gives me real estate listings. I used to ask, ‘What are the prime numbers greater than 87?’ and it would answer. Now instead of getting prime numbers, I get listings for prime rib, or prime real estate,” Woz says.
> 
> Worse, a lot of the time Siri says it can’t make a connection to the back-end servers that power the system. “With the iPhone 4 I could press a button and call my wife. Now on the 4S I can only do that when Siri can connect over the Internet. But many times it can’t connect. I’ve never had Android come back and say, ‘I can’t connect over the Internet.’”
> 
> ...


----------



## Sunray (Jul 16, 2012)

Resurrecting a thread. 

Got a replacement to my still working iPhone 4, after its second dip in water.  Apple do it for 119 quid p/x for a recon unit.  For what seems like a brand new phone, good price.  Mine was very battered and scratched.

Interestingly, this phones reception is much more sensitive to the grip of death. The last one in addition to being super rugged, surviving repeated dropping and being submerged in water twice, had no issues with reception however I held it. 

This appears more touchy, but the home button works which was starting to get very annoying on the old one.


----------



## editor (Jul 20, 2012)

Cause for concern here:


> Bitdefender looked at some 65,000 iOS apps up on Apple’s App Store, coming to the conclusion that around 41 per cent of those apps could be tracking the location of their users without asking or letting them know. Even worse, around 18 per cent granted themselves the ability to look through personal address book data, also without asking to do so.


 
41 per cent of iPhone apps can track your location without approval

18 Per Cent of iPhone Apps Rifle Through Your Address Book Without Permission


----------



## Bungle73 (Jul 20, 2012)

I don't know where this "track without approval" comes from.  Any app the requires access to location services has to be approved by the user.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 20, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> I don't know where this "track without approval" comes from.  Any app the requires access to location services has to be approved by the user.



Yup. Wonder what these numbers are like in the context of the smartphone industry as a whole?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 20, 2012)

It all seems to stem from this: http://www.bitdefender.co.uk/news/b...cy-app-removed-from-apple-app-store-2526.html


----------



## elbows (Jul 20, 2012)

Some more context & detail here: http://www.pcworld.com/article/259527/privacy_monitoring_app_clueful_booted_from_ios_app_store.html

These issues bother me but Im not a huge fan of bitdefenders approach really, databases of app capabilities based on analysis not done on the users device isnt ideal, and can suffer from notable omissions or out-of-date info. Better than nothing for sure, but the greater degree of privacy control in iOS 6 is what Im looking forward too.

Whatever solutions are put in place, user complacency or lack of understanding of the issues in detail is going to keep privacy woes on the radar on all platforms.


----------



## editor (Jul 21, 2012)

The hack now works for OSX apps too:
http://gizmodo.com/5927958/that-in+app-purchase-hack-now-works-for-os-x-apps-too


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2012)

Very bad news this. And one that sadly looks to not being going away any time soon...


----------



## mrs quoad (Jul 22, 2012)

editor said:


> The hack now works for OSX apps too:
> http://gizmodo.com/5927958/that-in app-purchase-hack-now-works-for-os-x-apps-too


Impressive; though I'm not entirely sold on DLing an unknown third-party app which requires my iTunes ID / login credentials, which - in turn - are linked straight to my debit card 

This sounds like something that a small group of people're either going to get away with spectacularly; or else it's going to bite them _very hard _on the backside.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2012)

I don't think you have to input your own details.


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## Bungle73 (Jul 22, 2012)

FFS, why do some people think they have a right to get for free what other people have put a lot of work into creating?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 31, 2013)

Will Apple release a huge screen phone? This lot seem to think so:


----------



## sim667 (Feb 1, 2013)

One of my students has one of them massive screen phones, its ridiculous, he can barely fit it in the pocket of his skinny jeans


----------



## editor (Feb 1, 2013)

Q. Hey, how do I generate traffic to my website when I've got no actual news?
A. Easy! Just knock out some artist impressions of made up iPhone designs and wait for people to post them up all over the place!


----------



## sim667 (Feb 1, 2013)

editor said:


> Q. Hey, how do I generate traffic to my website when I've got no actual news?
> A. Easy! Just knock out some artist impressions of made up iPhone designs and wait for people to post them up all over the place!


B. Buy facebook pages with lots of followers apparently?

I've 4 or 5 offers for mine now ranging from $50 to $2000


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## FridgeMagnet (Feb 1, 2013)

"Pull some figures from somewhere, draw a statistically incoherent graph and use it to claim victory/death of company X/product Y in the next six months, in an article beginning with the words 'Industry analysts predict...'" is always popular. Industry analysts predict that in 2014 102% of blog posts will be like this.


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## editor (Feb 1, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> "Pull some figures from somewhere, draw a statistically incoherent graph and use it to claim victory/death of company X/product Y in the next six months, in an article beginning with the words 'Industry analysts predict...'" is always popular. Industry analysts predict that in 2014 102% of blog posts will be like this.


Yes, but they at least have to hold on to some grasp of reality, no matter how remote. Some of these artists impressions of 'upcoming iProducts' are the stuff that may as well go in sci-fi graphic novels.


----------



## peterkro (Feb 4, 2013)

Evasi0n jailbreak released,servers getting hammered,all iOs devices except Apple TV3.

Very elegant JB 5mins, now to find stupid micro usb cable to JB Apple TV2.

Actual Evasi0n doesn't work on Apple TV2 but Seas0npass will release JB very soon.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 4, 2013)

sim667 said:


> One of my students has one of them massive screen phones, its ridiculous, he can barely fit it in the pocket of his skinny jeans


 
I've big hands and even I find them huge. But each to their own, I can see a semi tablet value in them...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 5, 2013)

I got a new 5 this afternoon as my 3GS has really been playing up, and I have to say that the panorama thing is really well done. I was quite surprised, I thought it would be just a low quality toy, but it works excellently.

I'm aware that it is an option on many other devices btw, as I have been told this, but always in the form of "oh yes my Samsung does that too, no idea how I use it though". But then you can talk to people in RL about phones without them feeling that they have to defend their faction to the death.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 5, 2013)

The extra screen length is pointless though. Really. Maybe they only put it in to fuck with developers.

Siri is a _lot_ better than it used to be.


----------



## souljacker (Feb 5, 2013)

Siri must have been fucking shite before then! It never gets anything I ask. What are the championship scores siri? Would you like me to search the web for "What the championship school?". Its shit and a total waste of time.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 5, 2013)

Siri has a bunch of things that the US had for a while and newer stuff like sport scores etc.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 5, 2013)

Ign are giving need for speed for iOS away via their website.

If you fancy fairly decent  driving game go to the ign website. It's normally 2.99. 

If you want to have a bit of fun wiping out the entire planet plague is decent for 69p. There is something disturbingly satisfying at causing humanity's extinction.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 6, 2013)

...and today IGN are listing the Tiny Bang Story, Geared (bit old, but ay), and Ticket to Ride for free.

All of which, IMO, are excellent.

I'd also be really up for recommending Optia atm - it's a lasers / mirrors game, but IMO it's really well implemented, and it's certainly given me a few solid hours of gameplay / puzzles so far.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 7, 2013)

Got a couple, ta


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Feb 7, 2013)

anyone else using a battery pack/case unit for the iphone?

On my ip4 I am using an ijackit sleek which I got given - yay! Had been meaning to research and buy one for years but got purchase/research/options inertia

so this is it

http://www.powerjackits.com/product/ijackit-sleek/

It's great...and a savage reminder of just how crap the battery life is on iphones...the ijackit makes me realise how battery paranoid I had become, off for a full days work elsewhere I'd be on the bus in - reducing screen brightness, quitting apps and turning off wifi and STILL running out of juice at the end of the day

whereas a full ijacket charge kept me going for a whole long weekend away from home..unheard of!

The only problem I am having with the ijackit is the charging socket - sometimes chargers meant for blackberries work perfectly, some don't, some charge the jackit but not the phone and some do both - for a bit and then the iphone comes up with that stupid message about "this accessory is not designed for charging"

...and their website has some baffling advice about NOT using a "general wall style socket" - which is exactly what I want to find

"We recommend connecting your PowerJackit to a power source using the included USB cable. PowerJackits can be plugged in to your computer or any “Made for iPhone” wall-plug style power source. You can charge your PowerJackit with the iPhone inserted or charge them separately.
We recommend you do not use a general wall-style power source to charge your PowerJackit."


It all reminds me depressingly of the crap I got from my powermonkeys (another attempt to extend the iphone battery life silliness) where their iphone adaptors just stopped working...intermittently and then all seven of them eventually. I must send those back, again.... Grrrr, just give us better battery life Apple.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Feb 8, 2013)

Piers Gibbon said:


> anyone else using a battery pack/case unit for the iphone?
> 
> On my ip4 I am using an ijackit sleek which I got given - yay! Had been meaning to research and buy one for years but got purchase/research/options inertia
> 
> ...


 
I use one of these: whttp://www.atcbattery.com/eng/itemdetails.asp?id=EA-501&rec=0&SpecialOffer=&ItemClass1=Charger+%26+Gadgets&ItemClass2=Portable+Power&ItemClass3=PowerBank&ItemClass4=-&viewresult=&viewresult2=&type=&searchword=&PriceCurrency=1ith (scroll down the image to read the tech data. I don't use it with an iphone but they are compatible with iphones and only cost £25.00 from Maplin. They are rated at 1800mAh Input DC 5 volts 500mA output DC 5 volts 1000mA. Not sleek and slim like the one you have but at less than half the price you can carry 2 if you really want to extend your phone use. I use mine when watching Catchup TV with the phone on a table and the charger sitting next to it. I stops the phone battery from being depleted so quickly.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 8, 2013)

A badgers thread on power packs, containing a variety of options: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/portable-charger.299437/

e2a: I've been meaning to get one, tbh!


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 8, 2013)

Gotta admit, looking at Amazon I'm unsure whether to get a mini / sleek 2,000 mAh case (which'd probably fit pretty well in my current faux leather wallet-style case and could probably be used pretty much constantly) or a big fat 12,000mAh hoofer that needs connecting with a wire.

e2a: the big fat hoofer would have the added advantage of providing a backup for my iPad whilst on field trips  Which is definitely the more work-capable device


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 8, 2013)

Also - I've only just discovered the Sky Sports TV app, @ £5 p/m. I could properly never justify a Sky subscription and, tbh, I wouldn't be allowed to watch anything at home, either  But I enjoy cricket and both flavours of rugby. And at £5 it's definitely worth a punt.

I'm streaming the Australia / West Indies ODI as I type - great stuff. And *actually* affordable.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 8, 2013)

Don't forget that full screen tv is just a (bit pricey) cable away.  Expect there are cheap ones from china on ebay.


----------



## peterkro (Feb 8, 2013)

mrs quoad said:


> Also - I've only just discovered the Sky Sports TV app, @ £5 p/m. I could properly never justify a Sky subscription and, tbh, I wouldn't be allowed to watch anything at home, either  But I enjoy cricket and both flavours of rugby. And at £5 it's definitely worth a punt.
> 
> I'm streaming the Australia / West Indies ODI as I type - great stuff. And *actually* affordable.


I've had it for quite a while to watch the footy,if you're jailbroken and have the correct leads you can watch on a big screen,not ideal for sports but definitely watchable.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 8, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Don't forget that full screen tv is just a (bit pricey) cable away.  Expect there are cheap ones from china on ebay.


a) that'd be verboten chez nous. We're allowed to watch Waterloo Road. We're not allowed to watch snooker, cricket, rugby etc 
b) can't believe streaming is allowed without jailbreak, even if a) didn't apply!


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 8, 2013)

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Po...4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1360337626&sr=1-4

^ ^ ^ a £239,999 charger, for those who're keen! 7 left in stock. £1.05 postage and packaging.

3,000 mAh.

e2a: and a £2,100 one with only 2,200 mAh 

I can, at least, understand that one. £21.00 mis-spelt, or with a European using commas instead of points.

The £239,999 one, though... 

e2a: I've plumped for a £20 2,200 mAh case, on the basis that if I want something the size of a small rock, then I might as well plug it into my laptop anyway. It's the constant power charge that I'm interested in and, hopefully, protecting the life of my phone's internal battery as a consequence. That being the case, a strap-on remote brick seems to be a bit beside the point


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 9, 2013)

Um that's a little pricey.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Um that's a little pricey.


For what?

What'd you suggest as an alternative?

e2a: ahhhh, unless you're referring to the tens / hundreds of thousands of pounds ones


----------



## peterkro (Feb 10, 2013)

mrs quoad said:


> b) can't believe streaming is allowed without jailbreak, even if a) didn't apply!


It's the Sky apps that don't allow tv out,I not aware of any app in the Apple store which can change this but a Cydia app TVOutTVMirror does.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 10, 2013)

peterkro said:


> It's the Sky apps that don't allow tv out,I not aware of any app in the Apple store which can change this but a Cydia app TVOutTVMirror does.


OK  Cheers, but I'm ok watching on my phone. Or even, potentially, iPad. It wouldn't be allowed on our TV anyhows, and tbh I'm not interested in sport *quite* enough to make a jailbreak (or big screen, tbh) worth it!


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 13, 2013)

mrs quoad said:


> e2a: I've plumped for a £20 2,200 mAh case, on the basis that if I want something the size of a small rock, then I might as well plug it into my laptop anyway. It's the constant power charge that I'm interested in and, hopefully, protecting the life of my phone's internal battery as a consequence. That being the case, a strap-on remote brick seems to be a bit beside the point


Bulky, quite heavy, and made of arse-end felt-type substitute and plastic. But, tbh, it fits well and seems to hold a decent charge. Can't see myself using it constantly, but it's looking useful for days / weeks of fieldwork.


----------



## g force (Feb 15, 2013)

Anyone else experiencing issues since the iOS update? App Store tells me there are 5 updates but when I got to the page nothing...just a grey background.

It's not the network or the handset (different story as i'm now on my third iPhone 5 this year - last two had irreparable hardware failures!)


----------



## peterkro (Feb 15, 2013)

g force said:


> Anyone else experiencing issues since the iOS update? App Store tells me there are 5 updates but when I got to the page nothing...just a grey background.
> 
> It's not the network or the handset (different story as i'm now on my third iPhone 5 this year - last two had irreparable hardware failures!)


No not had any problems ,presumably you've tried restarting?


----------



## g force (Feb 15, 2013)

I've tried everything...re-installed iOS, hard re-boot. Nothing. Probably another Fb update I don't need but still annoying.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 15, 2013)

g force said:


> Anyone else experiencing issues since the iOS update? App Store tells me there are 5 updates but when I got to the page nothing...just a grey background.
> 
> It's not the network or the handset (different story as i'm now on my third iPhone 5 this year - last two had irreparable hardware failures!)


 
I've had that quite a lot...... Im pretty sure its when the app store is very busy.

Tends to work more reliably over wifi for me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 15, 2013)

g force said:


> Anyone else experiencing issues since the iOS update? App Store tells me there are 5 updates but when I got to the page nothing...just a grey background.
> 
> It's not the network or the handset (different story as i'm now on my third iPhone 5 this year - last two had irreparable hardware failures!)


 
No problems at all, noticed that my iPhone finds reception noticeably faster than before and tends to drop bars less...


----------



## souljacker (Feb 15, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> No problems at all, noticed that my iPhone finds reception noticeably faster than before and tends to drop bars less...


 
Still got shit wifi though.


----------



## editor (Feb 15, 2013)

g force said:


> Anyone else experiencing issues since the iOS update? App Store tells me there are 5 updates but when I got to the page nothing...just a grey background.
> 
> It's not the network or the handset (different story as i'm now on my third iPhone 5 this year - last two had irreparable hardware failures!)


If I had two phones screw up on me, and then have the third one start to wobble I think I'd be looking at getting a different phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Feb 15, 2013)

souljacker said:


> Still got shit wifi though.


 
That had a few issues back in October but it was sorted by the OS update...


----------



## Sunray (Feb 15, 2013)

There was an exchange sync bug that 6.1.1 fixed. Interesting how one slight flaw can bring an operator down. It blows their 80:20 rule big style. You'd imagine they could handle phone flaws better.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Feb 16, 2013)

I'm running out of space on my ip4 ...I have deleted a load of free apps but still need to make space for the mahoosive tomtom europe update....

I also have tomtom Australia (don't laugh it never left me stranded in the outback) which I am obvs not going to use for another year. What's the best strategy for deleting an app from the phone but NEVER losing it off itunes on the Mac. Or if I delete it does the App store always know I have the right to download it for free again??


----------



## peterkro (Feb 16, 2013)

Piers Gibbon said:


> I'm running out of space on my ip4 ...I have deleted a load of free apps but still need to make space for the mahoosive tomtom europe update....
> 
> I also have tomtom Australia (don't laugh it never left me stranded in the outback) which I am obvs not going to use for another year. What's the best strategy for deleting an app from the phone but NEVER losing it off itunes on the Mac. Or if I delete it does the App store always know I have the right to download it for free again??


Both,untick it from apps to sync in iTunes then delete off the phone.The store will remember you've bought it and will allow free download if you lose it altogether.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 16, 2013)

Should also choose not to sync / reload it if you just delete the bugger off your phone. 

Also, if iTunes indicates a tonne of "other" memory in use, it may be worth purging your messages / mail. Thanks to Bandwidth, my imessages thread with artichoke somehow bumped up over 6gb before I finally twigged where all that memory had gone....


----------



## g force (Feb 18, 2013)

editor said:


> If I had two phones screw up on me, and then have the third one start to wobble I think I'd be looking at getting a different phone.


 
Once the contract is up I will...right now they're all being replaced for free so it's only costing me time at the Apple store. So far the handset is fine it's the app update issue and I think that it app store related.


----------



## Sunray (Feb 18, 2013)

All the messages are backed up to a sqllite database on the pc. You can download sql lite and query messages e.g.  Select all messages sent when drunk (as long as you know when that was) for a cringe/laugh.


----------



## sim667 (Feb 18, 2013)

souljacker said:


> Still got shit wifi though.


 
My wifi is fine since the update


----------



## TitanSound (Feb 18, 2013)

Halp.

GF got a 5 yesterday and just sent me this



> since I set up my work mail account on my iphone my emails haven't been received on my work pc.
> This did not happen with the blackberry.
> Any thoughts?


----------



## electroplated (Feb 18, 2013)

sounds like it's been setup as a POP account instead of IMAP perhaps?


----------



## souljacker (Feb 18, 2013)

sim667 said:


> My wifi is fine since the update


 
Mine isnt. Slow to connect, can't see networks right next me even though my laptop and android can. 

There was nothing in the release notes saying there was a wifi fix either. Maybe I've got a faulty one.


----------



## TitanSound (Feb 18, 2013)

electroplated said:


> sounds like it's been setup as a POP account instead of IMAP perhaps?


 
Indeed. Turns out she is trying to connect to an old school pop3.demon.co.uk server.

Just found an article on Google on how to set it up. What a faff.

http://www.farpoint.co.uk/index.php/knowledge/article/setting_up_demon_email_in_mail._the_right_way


----------



## sim667 (Feb 18, 2013)

souljacker said:


> Mine isnt. Slow to connect, can't see networks right next me even though my laptop and android can.
> 
> There was nothing in the release notes saying there was a wifi fix either. Maybe I've got a faulty one.


 
Yeah maybe..... im on 6.1.1 and have no wifi probs now.


----------



## mrs quoad (Feb 18, 2013)

TitanSound said:


> Indeed. Turns out she is trying to connect to an old school pop3.demon.co.uk server.
> 
> Just found an article on Google on how to set it up. What a faff.
> 
> http://www.farpoint.co.uk/index.php/knowledge/article/setting_up_demon_email_in_mail._the_right_way


God. Demon, ay?

My mum's been having similar struggles. afaict, it's pretty much the only mainstream mail provider that's a total f***ing pain in the arse. (Or, at least, I've set up hotmail, googlemail and my university's webmail with no troubles at all. Three of us've tried to get Demon working using multiple websites / resources, as of yet to no avail... I've ended up setting my mum up with a me.com website, to save fucking around and to get something (anything!) working.)


----------



## Sunray (Apr 10, 2013)

The journey down 

Free point and click on the App Store. Great on ipad.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 10, 2013)

Yeah? Was never a fan of PaC games but on a touch screen it could work nicely...


----------



## Bungle73 (May 8, 2013)

Field Agent: an app that PAYS you to use it. Basically you get a list of "jobs" that need doing within a specified radius of your location, you pick one and they pay you for doing it. They usually involve going to a shop or something, answering a few questions and taking a photo or two. Sometimes you might have to make a purchase, like a newspaper or some drinks in a bar, but you get compensated for it. Sometimes jobs come up that can be done at home. I've already made about £20 in the past three weeks!


----------



## sim667 (May 10, 2013)

So discovered today that if you have an exchange account set up on your iphone, you can remotely wipe your iphone with it (may have to be an admin).

As I had 2 work accounts on my iphone, I decided I didnt want an overzealous IT dept remotely wiping my iphone for shits and giggles, so have deleted them both.

Just a heads up for anyone who's a bit prang about stuff like that.


----------



## Lazy Llama (May 10, 2013)

Same goes for iPads, and I believe Android and Blackberry too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 10, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Field Agent: an app that PAYS you to use it. Basically you get a list of "jobs" that need doing within a specified radius of your location, you pick one and they pay you for doing it. They usually involve going to a shop or something, answering a few questions and taking a photo or two. Sometimes you might have to make a purchase, like a newspaper or some drinks in a bar, but you get compensated for it. Sometimes jobs come up that can be done at home. I've already made about £20 in the past three weeks!


 
That's pretty neat! I can see how you could create a charity version of that...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 10, 2013)

sim667 said:


> So discovered today that if you have an exchange account set up on your iphone, you can remotely wipe your iphone with it (may have to be an admin).
> 
> As I had 2 work accounts on my iphone, I decided I didnt want an overzealous IT dept remotely wiping my iphone for shits and giggles, so have deleted them both.
> 
> Just a heads up for anyone who's a bit prang about stuff like that.


 
Good to know but given I have a big hand in IT I doubt it'll be an issue for me...


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2013)

This article raises a few good points:
Skeuomorphism Isn’t iOS’s Biggest Problem


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 9, 2013)

I can't see there being massive changes to iOS, it's become the Volvo of smartphone/pad OS's and I suspect Apple are happy enough with that boring position. 

And I've learnt to love 'skeuomorphism', they better not mess with the yellow note pad.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 9, 2013)

I very much doubt we'll see big changes, they'd have to re-write the entire OS from the ground up which aint gonna happen in a year (assuming any real change comes post Forstal). It'll be simpler looking icons, maybe a few tweaks to the notification centre (easy access to wifi toggles), perhaps something like easy reply for messaging and maybe a little more openness on app API's. Not expecting iOS to suddenly become as interesting as WebOS for instance...


----------



## elbows (Jun 9, 2013)

There are few changes that would necessitate a complete rewrite of an OS from the ground up. You could change a lot as far as users are concerned without anything even remotely approaching such an effort.

Rather I suspect the main reason they wouldnt change too much in one go is not wanting to too radically change users familiarity with the system. That and not necessarily having too many wonderful ideas about how to make the OS substantially better than it is already.

I do not have high hopes for what new stuff we will get, but I think that ideally Apple would like to introduce several things that get people talking in a positive way and make it seem like they can still innovate and provide useful features. If they can pull something out of the hat, this would be a good year to do it given their Maps flop and other negative or stagnant stuff thats taken the shine off them. I've not seen any rumours that suggest they willcome out with something huge, but I would be moderately surprised if the WWDC passes without at least one thing being unveiled that gets people talking about more than icons & other UI changes, though not necessarily in a positive way.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 11, 2013)

I'm not sure about the shape of the new Mac Pro, but the specs look good.

I always thought mac pros were apples best designed product, and I think this looks like a good follow up, I understand why they've made it that shape. It may grow on me


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Jun 12, 2013)

just a quick update...I raved on this thread about the ijackit case that gave extra power to my ip4...well it turned out to be crap, first the recharging cable and all replacements were on/off permadodgy. Then it stopped charging the ip4 even when it had a charge. Fail.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2013)

The new icons really are a mixed bag, some are very nice and better than the originals others...not.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2013)

Flat icons, eh? Who would have thought of such a thing!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2013)

Not quite the point I was making but there you go...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2013)

Looking at the design, typography etc of iOS7 I find much to like but the colours. Really find them too fluorescent....


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2013)

Those icons are horribly inconsistent. They look rushed and some look totally out of place. It's like they had a team of designers all doing their own thing.


----------



## mauvais (Jun 13, 2013)

They don't look good, do they. The ones that do look like something else - Windows probably.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 13, 2013)

Apparently, the icon work was farmed out to Apple's marketing department in order to meet the deadline. Remember this is a developer release and it's only had 8 months work. Expect much more polish and better looking icons in the final version.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Apparently, the icon work was farmed out to Apple's marketing department in order to meet the deadline. Remember this is a developer release and it's only had 8 months work. Expect much more polish and better looking icons in the final version.


 
But come on: there's loads and loads of third party icon sets that look far more polished and complete than this rag tag collection. And we are talking about the richest tech company in the universe with near unlimited resources and a reputation for the very best design,

If they're having trouble allocating enough time and resources to working out something as basic as the design of a straightforward icon set, then alarm bells really should be ringing, especially seeing as what we've got so far is so obviously influenced by their competitors.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 13, 2013)

I don't think those are final icons either. They're too inconsistent.

That chart is from Mashable btw in case anybody was wondering.


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2013)

I would expect some of the icons to change before final release, but I would not be surprised if quite a lot of them remain the same. 

I'm not sure I totally understand the consistency point, since the original ones were not exactly all utterly uniform in all important characteristics. Nor are their competitors.

And no, the icons do not set off my alarm bells. Nor am I surprised that some aspects of the design of iOS 7 resemble competitors. It's somewhat inevitable given that Apple do not operate in their own universe, boldly leading the way. They take many design cues from much broader design fashions of the day. They didn't invent the rounded rectangular buttons, drop shadows, gloss etc that featured in prior iOS versions and now look dated. 

For me the story is not about Apple copying others in incorporating current trends into iOS, its that they've done it so late. They should have done it at least a year ago but they dropped the ball then and had to play catch-up, which involved needing to ditch someone high up in order to finally get with the times.  

From what I have seen so far they have broadly done it right, and just need to tweak a few bits and bobs in order to maximise consistency. Many of the changes do resemble what Android in particular has done in recent years, but their greater control freakery & less fragmentation offers them the opportunity to ultimately get more consistency out of the look once the dust settles. They've also pushed a number of animations and interactions somewhat further than Android has, which will probably pay off just enough to allow them to hold onto the sizzle they need in order to sell premium products, no matter what the critics say right now.

Most of it is not innovative but I really don't expect Apple to seriously innovate more than a couple of times a decade. Like almost everyone else they suffer from a lack of ideas about what else to add to a now well established set of form factors. Don't believe the hype, just because they managed to crack the multitouch smartphone & tablet UI's before their competitors doesn't mean they can somehow repeat such tricks. Especially as much of that success was about their competitors sucking and stagnating as much as it was about Apple innovating - they had a wide open goal at the time and those days are gone. Nothing in iOS 7 seems to change the pattern of Apple failing to do certain services/data stuff as well as Google can, with both Siri and the 'Today' stuff they've added still failing to match up to what Google Now can do if you like that sort of thing.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2013)

One thing: I know loads of people with Android phones. I've never heard _any of them_ go on about fragmentation. I doubt if many people even know what it is, let alone why they're supposed to be so put out by it.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 13, 2013)

editor said:


> One thing: I know loads of people with Android phones. I've never heard _any of them_ go on about fragmentation. I doubt if many people even know what it is, let alone why they're supposed to be so put out by it.


they might complain about how iOS tends to get more high powered apps, which is due in part to the simpler development process when targeting a narrow range of hardware, the majority of which is running the latest version of the OS. It's something that developers complain about loudly, but consumers might grumble lightly about the symptoms if pressed.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 13, 2013)

I had a play on a phone running iOS7 yesterday, it looks a lot better in real life than the pics suggest


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2013)

editor said:


> One thing: I know loads of people with Android phones. I've never heard _any of them_ go on about fragmentation. I doubt if many people even know what it is, let alone why they're supposed to be so put out by it.


 
Well I would not suggest that fragmentation is as much of an issue as the likes of Apple tried to make out in their keynotes speech.

However you do pretty consistently refuse to get one of the main issues with OS fragmentation. It has quite an impact on how rapidly developers, and therefore apps, rush to take advantage of a wide variety of changes that are brought in with new OS versions. This is hardly the end of the word, nor does it prevent people writing decent apps. But it does make a difference. When coupled with greater variety of hardware configurations to support, it can for example have quite an effect on how quickly updated UI design considerations that the OS creator would like apps for the platform to rapidly adopt, actually do so. There is no doubt at all in my mind that this hampered Google as they sought to correct previous Android shortcomings, most notably with tablet apps. Google were not afraid to make pretty hefty changes to some fundamental UI elements, and their frustration at how slowly these things caught on was quite palpable at times.

Like I said, its hardly the end of the world and the scope of the issues it creates will vary depending on what sort of OS-level changes are taking place during a particular era. e.g. the example I just gave of some tablet UI stuff is gradually going to become a non-issue, especially as android tablet sales were fairly feeble during the era when some parts of the android OS UI was not exactly a perfect fit for tablets. All the same I have no doubt at all that this stuff contributed to a slow start for quality, polished android apps, but as you went to great lengths to pretend that app quality & quantity issues were largely a figment of my imagination I do not expect to convince you. So this is one of the few times I will bother to go there again these days, especially as these issues have gradually faded away. The point really is that they faded far more slowly than any comparable issues with iOS, more slowly than Google would have liked, but I assume its no longer an issue of critical concern to Google since they've done enough to ensure Android is no longer a turkey for tablets.


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I had a play on a phone running iOS7 yesterday, it looks a lot better in real life than the pics suggest


 


I think quite a part of that is the animations. They have done enough with layers to ensure that those potential & repeat customers who must not be too disappointed with iOS in order to ensure decent enough profits for Apple will largely be happy.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2013)

Crispy said:


> they might complain about how iOS tends to get more high powered apps, which is due in part to the simpler development process when targeting a narrow range of hardware, the majority of which is running the latest version of the OS.


 
They might, but I can't say I've ever heard it among non techie folks. Most people don't buy regular smartphones for 'high powered apps' - so long as it plays videos, does Facebook, Twitter etc etc and has a decent camera for taking snaps, that's usually more than enough.

And those who do fork out for a high end phone like the S4 have got an ample choice of those 'high powered apps.'


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2013)

elbows said:


> Well I would not suggest that fragmentation is as much of an issue as the likes of Apple tried to make out in their keynotes speech.


Indeed it's not. Techies and fanboys may get their knickers in a twist over it but for most people it's meaningless.

And the figures can be skewed and twisted any way you like, but I doubt if many consumers give a fuck.

Here's an example: iOS More Fragmented in North America than Samsung Android Devices, Report Suggests


----------



## RedDragon (Jun 29, 2013)

Remember the chap who found the prototype of the iPhone4 in a bar, a couple of days ago he did an 'ask me anything (AMA)' on Reddit, poor sod got screwed by Apple, Gizmodo, ditched by his girlfriend, spied on by his flat mate and saddled with high legal fees.

Link


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 29, 2013)

Yeah I saw that. Not sure I have much sympathy for him though, he knew what he was doing when he tried to sell an item that clearly wasn't available for consumer purchase. I chalk that up to a you takes your chances kinda thing and it just backfired.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 11, 2013)

Just got this for £120 as the only one they had was in an open box.

http://www.currys.co.uk/gbuk/audio/...5-pdt.html?intcmpid=display~RR~Audio~13828815


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 14, 2013)

Nice. Good sound?


----------



## RedDragon (Aug 11, 2013)

AllthingsD and others now saying September 10th is the launch date - rumours strong enough for tech pundits to book their air tickets.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 11, 2013)

Tech pundits don't have much else to do with their time.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2013)

Yup although this 'feels' a little different to the usual chatter. The speed at which everyone has just got in line behind it is interesting...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2013)

Looks like the September 10th iPhone event is all but confirmed. The Loop has given its customary "Yep" in response to the ATD article.

So iPhone 5S and iPhone 5C launching in less than four weeks with iOS 7 available in five?


----------



## Dr Smith (Aug 12, 2013)

I wish there were still vocal iPhone haters who called it the Jesus Phones. Those were good time, no? Nowadays, you're just expected to stand on line and buy one, and to feel grateful to be alive.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2013)

No sane person gives a shit about that stuff anymore...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2013)

Well...it looks like there's a fair chance the gold rumours are true...


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2013)

A gold phone? That's truly _revolutionary. _Really important news.

This surely changes everything. Again.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2013)

Amazing, there's now unboxing videos for product 'leaks'! Incredible...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2013)

A champagne coloured iPhone is the least interesting thing about the 5S. Bigger storage would be very nice but greater than that would be a dramatic rise in battery...


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Amazing, there's now unboxing videos for product 'leaks'! Incredible...


I'm not sitting through 6.15 minutes of some twat unboxing a bag of fucking cases that are probably fakes anyway.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 22, 2013)

Think I'll hold out for the transparent edition.


----------



## RedDragon (Aug 22, 2013)

Dr Smith said:


> ...Nowadays, you're just expected to stand on line and buy one, and to feel grateful to be alive.


I think the standing in-line days are over, the market is much more fractured than it was way back then.

It's odd the 'buzz' has all but gone but you can bet this Champaigned twist will be their best selling phone ever.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 22, 2013)

The next model is definitely going to be built into a unicorn. I saw it on Engadget.


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2013)

Here's the advertising for the game changing new phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> Think I'll hold out for the transparent edition.


 

Pfft I'm waiting for the hard light holographic edition.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 22, 2013)

TBH I'd be more excited about a Galaxy Note sized iPhone. Those small screens just don't do it for me.


----------



## RedDragon (Aug 22, 2013)

There's the new i.d verification thing to look forward to, piss on it and it unlocks via your DNA signature.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 22, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> There's the new i.d verification thing to look forward to, piss on it and it unlocks via your DNA signature.


 

A whole new genre of porn will explode.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 2, 2013)

All balls, posted on the wrong thread...anyway...as I was saying...the iPhone 5C is all but confirmed it seems...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 2, 2013)

Have any of these leaks ever been right though?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 2, 2013)

From this site or generally? iPad mini leaks were spot on last year despite some serious incredibility on here (Crispy still owes us a hat eating).


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 6, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Have any of these leaks ever been right though?


The infamous iPhone 4 leak.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 6, 2013)

Heh that wasn't a leak as much as a royal fuck up by an engineer!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 6, 2013)

The colourful cheap versions look nice. I think they'll have a strong appeal to the more cost conscious and younger market. I'm more about phablet sized devices personally but I can see the appeal of one of these, at the right price/specs.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 6, 2013)

Think cheap iPhones in colors will sell shit loads, probably more than the higher priced ones...


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 7, 2013)

Any details of spec comparisons between the S and the C? Surely if the C runs iOS 7 just as smoothly there's no point shelling out for the S?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> Any details of spec comparisons between the S and the C? Surely if the C runs iOS 7 just as smoothly there's no point shelling out for the S?



It's all rumors but I'd bet it'd be roughly 4S in specs as it looks like the 5 is sticking around.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 8, 2013)

Will Apple drop an advantage bomb when it holds its Beijing press conference  on the 11th, a deal with China Mobile?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2013)

That announcement was a bit out of the blue, if they've struck a deal with a carrier they has 700 million customers they might be about to make a fair bit of money in China...


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2013)

Look at these sad fucks.









> First customers already in line for new iPhones Apple has yet to announce
> http://appleinsider.com/articles/13...ine-for-new-iphones-apple-has-yet-to-announce



And the ridiculous iHype lives on elsewhere: a whole article speculating on whether the new iPhone will have a _bit of silver around the home button or not:_
http://gizmodo.com/will-there-be-one-ring-to-rule-them-all-around-the-5s-h-1272881602


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 8, 2013)

They're going to be disappointed when they realise queuing for four days wasn't necessary as anyone who wants one will be able to walk-in off the street and buy it, phones aren't where 'its' at.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 8, 2013)

At this point they are literally as sad as the people who complain about them year in year out.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

If the phone looks like this, I shall be most LOL-full.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> At this point they are literally as sad as the people who complain about them year in year out.


Complaining? I'm just laughing at the sad fucks.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Have any of these leaks ever been right though?


yes. The manufacturing chain is now so big that it's impossible for apple to maintain the sort of secrecy they used to. We've been seeing parts for the new phones for months.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 10, 2013)

Where the hell is my new iPod Classic? That's all the news anyone should care about.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

mauvais said:


> Where the hell is my new iPod Classic? That's all the news anyone should care about.



Haha! Wouldn't surprise me if that's unceremoniously dumped this year...


----------



## mauvais (Sep 10, 2013)

Let's hope so. Who knows what would happen if they actually made a tangible improvement to anything?


----------



## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

Anyone tried the Mophie juice pack (case + battery extender)?

http://www.mophie.com/shop/iphone-5


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Haha! Wouldn't surprise me if that's unceremoniously dumped this year...


Would be a shame, it's still the best mp3 player available. A 128 gig solid state model would be cool.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Would be a shame, it's still the best mp3 player available. A 128 gig solid state model would be cool.


 
I'd be tempted to buy one for my entire itunes library for my car.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Would be a shame, it's still the best mp3 player available. A 128 gig solid state model would be cool.



In storage terms it is for sure but it's of another era now. Plus their choice to move to a new cable/power adapter means either investing support in the classic (a device with declining sales) or dumping it and focusing on getting a 128 gig iPod touch to market...


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Winot said:


> Anyone tried the Mophie juice pack (case + battery extender)?
> 
> http://www.mophie.com/shop/iphone-5


I've reviewed one of those things. It's a clever solution but they add an unsatisfying amount of bulk to the phone and the concept remains hugely inferior to being able to just swap out batteries.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Very useful device for those of us that travel for work or need and all day battery for social media updates at conferences.


----------



## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

Interesting take on Apple's iPhone 'versioning' strategy:

http://www.digitopoly.org/2013/09/09/apples-iphone-versioning/


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2013)

Have they anounced and IOS 7 release date yet?


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Have they anounced and IOS 7 release date yet?


expecting it tonight - press event kicks off 6pm usual suspects covering it live.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 10, 2013)

Time to get fappling.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

Live streaming countdown
*
live blog*

Apple Insider - http://live.appleinsider.com/#AllEvents

CNET - http://live.cnet.com/Event/CNETs_Apple_Sept_10_event_live_blog

Engadget - http://www.engadget.com/2013/09/10/apple-iphone-liveblog-2013/

Gizmodo - http://live.gizmodo.com/

Macworld - http://live.macworld.com/2013/09/iPhoneEvent/index.php

The Verge - http://live.theverge.com/apple-iphone-5s-liveblog/

*And This Week In Tech'*s usual Irreverent live commentary from about 5.30pm with an after event discussion on TWiT TV


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

One day this over-hyped parade of ever diminishing returns will surely end.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Live streaming countdown
> *live blog*
> 
> Apple Insider - http://live.appleinsider.com/#AllEvents
> ...



Blimey, that's er quite a list.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> One day this over-hyped parade of ever diminishing returns will surely end.


Don't be a meanie, for some of us it's the equivalent of a spiritual festival.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Don't be a meanie, for some of us it's the equivalent of a spiritual festival.



He's just the other side of the hype coin, it works because there's a bunch of bloggers loving it and a bunch that hate it.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

I don't hate it at all. I find it funny. People camping out for days on end for a product that hasn't even been announced! Priceless hilarious twattery!


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

88 minutes to set-up my deckchair and sort a jacket potato with caviar.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> 88 minutes to set-up my deckchair and sort a jacket potato with caviar.


Don't forget to whoop on cue!


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Don't forget to whoop on cue!


I'll be watching the TWiT commentary and those guys don't give it the respect it deserves, damn it!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

TWiT are a great watch, for whatever the topic, great show!


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

I've just been sent a press release for a new iPhone 5C case. Looks like the press source released it a bit early!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Fugly.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

The Guardian should really spin off their many many live blogs into another site, they do so many...


http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/10/iphone-5s-and-iphone-5c-launch-ios-7-live-mbm


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

So, iOS7 on September 18th...


----------



## Kanda (Sep 10, 2013)

Has anyone made the comment: 'The Apple stores are down yet wtf thats so shit'  yet?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Kanda said:


> Has anyone made the comment: 'The Apple stores are down yet wtf thats so shit'  yet?



Heh I was expecting that too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Those cases are really weird.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Gold...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

64 bit A7?


----------



## elbows (Sep 10, 2013)

64-bit as marketing parp again.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Now this is interesting...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 10, 2013)

If I see one more tweet about fucking fitbit I will go round to the tweeter's house and force them to smoke a hundred fags and eat some deep fried cheese.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

The what?


----------



## xenon (Sep 10, 2013)

Can someone summarise please. i.e.

5S faster, fingerprint scanner. Anything else significant?

5C?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

The finger print reader looks cool.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

So is it looking like yet another almighty anti-climax, with the usual string of already-invented technologies, regurgitated innovation from elsewhere, oh, and some pretty case colours?

Or have I missed something really amazing? Please advise.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

It's going to be usable to buy apps, how long before Back to the Future 2 like 'thumb' purchases?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> So is it looking like yet another almighty anti-climax, with the usual string of already-invented technologies, regurgitated innovation from elsewhere, oh, and some pretty case colours?
> 
> Or have I missed something really amazing? Please advise.



Yup and it won't stop them selling tens of millions of devices either. Consumers are funny things...


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> So is it looking like yet another almighty anti-climax, with the usual string of already-invented technologies, regurgitated innovation from elsewhere, oh, and some pretty case colours?
> 
> Or have I missed something really amazing? Please advise.


I'm not sure what you were expecting? TBH Apple could announce the second coming and you still wouldn't be impressed.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

OMG! Apple have just invented the fingerprint scanner and in doing so have managed to uninvent the Motorola one from 2011!
This changes everything. Again.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> I'm not sure what you were expecting? TBH Apple could announce the second coming and you still wouldn't be impressed.



Well quite. Pretty boring at this point to see the same tedious comments and attempts at humour every year.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> I'm not sure what you were expecting? TBH Apple could announce the second coming and you still wouldn't be impressed.


That's not true at all. I can remember being really impressed with some of Apple's innovation in the past, but seeing as their whole PR strategy is about puffing up their launches into some kind of earth-shattering event, I've every right to express disappointment when it fails to live up to the ludicrous levels of pre-hype.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Pricing:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> That's not true at all. I can remember being really impressed with some of Apple's innovation in the past, but seeing as their whole PR strategy is about puffing up their launches into some kind of earth-shattering event, I've every right to express disappointment when it fails to live up to the ludicrous levels of pre-hype.



Mate that's horseshit, you used to bitch about the lack of hardware keyboard and call it the jesus phone from day one, you occasionally dangle a fig leaf with a vague comment on design of hardware but that's about it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Hmmm the iPhone 5C looks like it's made with the Duplo design team:


----------



## xenon (Sep 10, 2013)

Personlly I rather like my IPhone 5. I'm not gonna watch a launch thing for a new phone though cos I don't need one. Just curious enough to want to read a spec list.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

xenon said:


> Personlly I rather like my IPhone 5. I'm not gonna watch a launch thing for a new phone though cos I don't need one. Just curious enough to want to read a spec list.



The 5 has a nicer colour for the black one, the new one doesn't look great really...faster phone, better battery, nothing on camera other than a lot of stuff about lenses...


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Mate that's horseshit, you used to bitch about the lack of hardware keyboard and call it the jesus phone from day one, you occasionally dangle a fig leaf with a vague comment on design of hardware but that's about it.


I could embarrass you and pull out all sorts of quotes that would prove you to be very wrong, but I really can't be arsed. Besides, your iBubble is pretty much impenetrable to reality these days. Anyway, don't let me get in the way of your fapping - let's see more pics of the revolutionary update!


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

Elvis


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Elvis



Bit random.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Not exactly a great marketing shot is it?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Well...roll on October and the new operating system (and Mac Pro for those with deep pockets).


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

xenon said:


> Personlly I rather like my IPhone 5. I'm not gonna watch a launch thing for a new phone though cos I don't need one. Just curious enough to want to read a spec list.



Here you go, the specs page is live: http://store.apple.com/uk/iphone/family/iphone/compare


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> That's not true at all. I can remember being really impressed with some of Apple's innovation in the past, but seeing as their whole PR strategy is about puffing up their launches into some kind of earth-shattering event, I've every right to express disappointment when it fails to live up to the ludicrous levels of pre-hype.


There isn't really much room for "innovation" as far as smart phones go these days.  Everything "amazing" has already been done.  Apple took what they had and made improvements; why expect anything else?


Kid_Eternity said:


> The 5 has a nicer colour for the black one, the new one doesn't look great really...faster phone, better battery, nothing on camera other than a lot of stuff about lenses...


The camera has a larger sensor which should make for better quality images, and it also has image-stabilisation and some other stuff. Sounds good to me.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

It's like they were  constipated and just needed to squeeze two out as quickly as possible.  Although S bumps have never been that riveting, the finger print reader was neatly done.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> There isn't really much room for "innovation" as far as smart phones go these days.  Everything "amazing" has already been done.  Apple took what they had and made improvements; why expect anything else?


It's not me that hyper-inflates the launch of a new, slightly improved phone using already-seen technology into some global 'hold-the-front-page' mega event that must be simultaneously streamed across multiple channels, with film crews preparing to video people stood in queues.

There was a time when Apple launches really did pull some punches and provide some real surprises. Now we get just the same amount of hype as before but with very little substance behind it.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> The camera has a larger sensor which should make for better quality images, and it also has image-stabilisation and some other stuff. Sounds good to me.


How do you think it might compare to the Xperia Z1 and Lumia 1020?


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Blimey. It's not cheap, is it?
16GB £549
32GB £629
64GB £709


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

Poor buggers are going be standing in those queues for a rather long time.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> It's not me that hyper-inflates the launch of a new, slightly improved phone using already-seen technology into some global 'hold-the-front-page' mega event that must be simultaneously streamed across multiple channels, with film crews preparing to video people stood in queues.
> 
> There was a time when Apple launches really did pull some punches and provide some real surprises. Now we get just the same amount of hype as before but with very little substance behind it.



It is you that repeats this sort of thing all the time though


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Blimey. It's not cheap, is it?
> 16GB £549
> 32GB £629
> 64GB £709



How much is the 5c?


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Sep 10, 2013)

Jesus - the prices on the plastic phone are a touch high.

I was hoping it'd more entry level


----------



## Kanda (Sep 10, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> How much is the 5c?



From DM: It will cost $199 for 16GB, $299 for 32GB and $399 for 64GB


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

5C £469 16GB, £549 32GB


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 10, 2013)

Throbbing Angel said:


> Jesus - the prices on the plastic phone are a touch high.
> 
> I was hoping it'd more entry level


How much?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> 5C £469 16GB, £549 32GB


Pmsl


----------



## elbows (Sep 10, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> There isn't really much room for "innovation" as far as smart phones go these days.  Everything "amazing" has already been done.  Apple took what they had and made improvements; why expect anything else?



I don't know anyone who expects anything else. I'm sure editor doesn't either, and is simply content as ever to spit apples own propaganda from years ago back in their face every time. Which is somewhat redundant at this point since most people were only going to parrot the apple propaganda about innovation on occasions where Apple were actually innovating to an extent recognised as at least somewhat significant.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> 5C £469 16GB, £549 32GB


Mental high pricing.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Sep 10, 2013)

aye


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

So if I were to become unconscious can someone get into my phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> So if I were to become unconscious can someone get into my phone.



Yeah but you're safe if they cut it off..!


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 10, 2013)

I think those plastic ones are horrid. They are garish and are the closest thing I've seen to a children's phone.
I do like the gold 5s. not paying seven hundred quid for one however. i'll either get an iphone 5 or stick with my cracked 4 with the dodgy home button.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Can we all agree that the plastic case for the plastic phone sure is mighty fugly? It looks like a dust magnet too.





$29!


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> I think those plastic ones are horrid. They are garish and are the closest thing I've seen to a children's phone.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 10, 2013)

I think they are vile.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> I think they are vile.


Normally the one thing Apple always gets right - and in some considerable style - is design, but these look like some sort of knock off covers you'd find in Poundland.

This guy is particularly unimpressed: http://gizmodo.com/apples-iphone-5c-case-looks-like-a-cheese-grater-made-1285565207/1285964254


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 10, 2013)

Hmmmm, so the "budget" iPhone is anything but.

Not quite are I see the point of it tbh, spec wise it's almost identical to the new "proper" one.

Looking forward to iOS7 though, I've played with it a fair bit on a developer mates phone, it makes Android seem rather clunky in comparison. 

I still think I'm gonna ditch a smartphone though, just haven't got the need for one, my ipad has taken those tasks over.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> So if I were to become unconscious can someone get into my phone.



According to my 14-year-old friend on Facebook who's currently raving about fingerprint unlocking, you can dial emergency services without unlocking"duh"


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Can we all agree that the plastic case for the plastic phone sure is mighty fugly? It looks like a dust magnet too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Look how teenagers and hipsters dress these days, they'll buy them by the bucketload...


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Nokia reacts to Apple's new designs. 

 

https://twitter.com/NokiaUS/status/377486843178418176/photo/1


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Look how teenagers and hipsters dress these days, they'll buy them by the bucketload...


They'll sell because they're Apple, not because of that case design, which is awful.


----------



## elbows (Sep 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Hmmmm, so the "budget" iPhone is anything but.
> 
> Not quite are I see the point of it tbh, spec wise it's almost identical to the new "proper" one.



Depends which spec you are interested in. CPU, OpenGL, 74-bit etc-wise its not the same as the new one, its basically the same as the 5.

As best I can tell the price is also around about what they would have started selling the 5 for after the 5S came out, if they were still sticking to that old way of offering cheaper ones rather than having made this new colour one instead of keeping the 5 around.

I don't like the price, but I'll wait and see how the new CPU etc perform in the 5S before judging whether it still makes any sense to consider the 5C at all.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> According to my 14-year-old friend on Facebook who's currently raving about fingerprint unlocking, you can dial emergency services without unlocking"duh"


Knowing some of my 'friends' they'll be using my finger to shop online at the Apple store.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 10, 2013)

I'm still opting for a JCB phone then


----------



## Epico (Sep 10, 2013)

Relying on different coloured cases just shows how the advancements are plateauing. 

The fans will keep lining the streets for the time being but Apple, Samsung et al will face an ongoing  battle in convincing regular consumers that model 'X' is any different from not only their competitors models but from what they released six months previously.

If the iPhone 6, can make my coffee in the morning, or do the ironing, I'll join the queue. Otherwise, I'll look to downgrade and save money when my contract is up.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

I'd like to see a phone that's easily pull apart-able with updates as a component plug-in/replacement. The days of buying a completely new device every couple of years is evnviromenmaly unsustainable .


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

To me this biggest advances are in things like Google Now rather than ever increasing high-end tech. I barely use any of the whizzo features on my phone. The iPhone camera has always been good, so that's about the only thing I can see of any real interest in this update.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 10, 2013)

So, did they announce anything else, or was this one phones only?


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, did they announce anything else, or was this one phones only?


Two phones. The 5s and the plasticky (guffaw)  'budget' 5C.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

Just the phones and IOS7


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 10, 2013)

I don't give a shit about the rest of it but the 5C strikes me as a bad sign. That sort of pointless stuff dilutes the brand, and Apple used to recognise this. "I would buy an iPhone but they only come in black or white and I couldn't imagine using a cover" said nobody ever.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Hmmmm, so the "budget" iPhone is anything but.
> 
> Not quite are I see the point of it tbh, spec wise it's almost identical to the new "proper" one.
> 
> ...



Have to admit been feeling this past year I may be moving on from smartphones too, if there was a retina iPad mini I'd be tempted to go data only and not bother with having a phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Epico said:


> Relying on different coloured cases just shows how the advancements are plateauing.
> 
> The fans will keep lining the streets for the time being but Apple, Samsung et al will face an ongoing  battle in convincing regular consumers that model 'X' is any different from not only their competitors models but from what they released six months previously.
> 
> If the iPhone 6, can make my coffee in the morning, or do the ironing, I'll join the queue. Otherwise, I'll look to downgrade and save money when my contract is up.



Indeed, Samsungs big innovation appears to be releasing a hundred variants of screen size, Apple is adding colour. Certainly smartphones are no longer a new frontier...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Curious as to why they kept the 4S, it makes more sense for them to dump it and just have two phones with lightening cables...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Thinking about tech one lesson you see time and time again is it doesn't matter who did first or how long ago. All that matters to consumers is who is doing it now and how well...fickle bastards!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 10, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I don't give a shit about the rest of it but the 5C strikes me as a bad sign. That sort of pointless stuff dilutes the brand, and Apple used to recognise this. "I would buy an iPhone but they only come in black or white and I couldn't imagine using a cover" said nobody ever.


If the 5C had been a genuine budget offering I could see the point, but as it is? Nope.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

I suppose the budget bit will come into play when offered on contract - I think the youth will be pestering their parents for this to be added to the family plan.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Is anyone here seriously thinking that either of these phones are a bit of a must-buy?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I suppose the budget bit will come into play when offered on contract - I think the youth will be pestering their parents for this to be added to the family plan.



Perhaps, they certainly are colorful and the hipster comment earlier is spot on. Those fuckers love that bollox.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

So the main selling point of the non-budget budget 5c phone is the rubbery case with holes in because hipsters supposedly love brightly coloured things that look like they were designed for the nursery?

Oh, OK.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Is anyone here seriously thinking that either of these phones are a bit of a must-buy?


I can't see _any_ new phone being that. Until battery technology gets better we've reached a point where there isn't really anything left to do.


----------



## pesh (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> So the main selling point of the non-budget budget 5c phone is the rubbery case with holes in because hipsters supposedly love brightly coloured things that look like they were designed for the nursery?
> 
> Oh, OK.



basically yeah, but i'd say they were aimed more at kids than hipsters... ramp up the pester power for the spoilt offspring of the iFamily... big market etc.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I can't see _any_ new phone being that. Until battery technology gets better we've reached a point where there isn't really anything left to do.



No phone is a must have these days, anyone that tells you that either is selling you it or a right sad twat.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

^ Weirdly abusive post.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> ^ Weirdly abusive post.



Eh?????


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Kanda said:


> Eh?????


"Right sad twat" seemed to have come a bit out of nowhere, no?


----------



## Kanda (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> "Right sad twat" seemed to have come a bit out of nowhere, no?



No. Don't see where you're coming from on this one tbh


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Kanda said:


> No. Don't see where you're coming from on this one tbh


Well, it's no big deal, is it? Lots more interesting things to talk about. Any opinions on the new phones?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Kanda said:


> No. Don't see where you're coming from on this one tbh



Me either, the Ed's clearly on the paranoid pills again.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Is anyone here seriously thinking that either of these phones are a bit of a must-buy?


I'm not, but then my immediate needs in a phone have changed  so If I were to buy today I'd be looking at a larger screen (probably a samsung) the only thing I'd be anxious about is losing the current seamless integration I have between all my Apple stuff. I kind of like Kid_Eternity idea of a retina (all-you-can-eat-data) ipad mini and ditching the phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I'm not, but then my immediate needs in a phone have changed  so If I were to buy today I'd be looking at larger screen (probably a samsung) the only thing I'd be anxious about is losing the current seamless integration I have between all my Apple stuff. I kind of like Kid_Eternity idea of a retina (all-you-can-eat-data) ipad mini and ditching the phone.



Just have this growing feeling the age of the phone is coming to an end for me...


----------



## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Is anyone here seriously thinking that either of these phones are a bit of a must-buy?



If I was on the 4S I'd spring for the 5S.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Winot said:


> If I was on the 4S I'd spring for the 5S.



Makes sense if you have other Apple devices but if the 4S was the only one you'd be better off having a good look at either HTC Ones or Nexus 4s...


----------



## electroplated (Sep 10, 2013)

I'm on the 4s and definitely will be waiting for the 6 or beyond unless I lose or break this one and have a cheap upgrade option


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

electroplated said:


> I'm on the 4s and definitely will be waiting for the 6 or beyond unless I lose or break this one and have a cheap upgrade option



Why?


----------



## spacemonkey (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I'd like to see a phone that's easily pull apart-able with updates as a component plug-in/replacement. The days of buying a completely new device every couple of years is evnviromenmaly unsustainable .



Pull apart-able/upgradable phones are never going to happen. 

And on the list of fucked up unsustainable things about modern society, I don't think smartphones are a big contributor. If anything, if they stop people firing up massive home computers to browse the internet/check e-mail etc, they're a massive environmental gain. It costs about 46p to charge a smartphone for a year.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Winot said:


> If I was on the 4S I'd spring for the 5S.


At those prices? You must be _minted_, sir!


----------



## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Makes sense if you have other Apple devices but if the 4S was the only one you'd be better off having a good look at either HTC Ones or Nexus 4s...



Lazily, I'm Apple-only.


----------



## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> At those prices? You must be _minted_, sir!



Well, I might get work to buy it.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

Winot said:


> Well, I might get work to buy it.


£709 for the 64GB iPhone. £709!!!! Like I said, you must be minted!


----------



## Winot (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> £709 for the 64GB iPhone. £709!!!! Like I said, you must be minted!



iPhone 5 was about that I think. 

You're right it's a stack of cash.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2013)

Winot said:


> Well, I might get work to buy it.



With a cheapo sim only deal you'd probably end up saving money.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 10, 2013)

spacemonkey said:


> ...And on the list of fucked up unsustainable things about modern society, I don't think smartphones are a big contributor. If anything, if they stop people firing up massive home computers to browse the internet/check e-mail etc, they're a massive environmental gain. It costs about 46p to charge a smartphone for a year.


130 million mobile phones thrown away each year of which about 8% are recyclable that's a significant negative contribution towards a fucked up environment  not to mention the war zone mining for manufacturing components. There's quite a lot of research out there, well worth a read.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> 130 million mobile phones thrown away each year of which about 8% are recyclable that's a significant negative contribution towards a fucked up environment  not to mention the war zone mining for manufacturing components. There's quite a lot of research out there, well worth a read.


Ricoh introduced a clever system where it was possible to upgrade both the sensor and the lens in a compact camera, effectively future proofing it for decades. It didn't sell well. As long as people are happy to join in with the new-phone-every-year bandwagon, this problem isn't going away for a long time.

And yes, it is madness, and most of us are all as guilty as hell too.

*puts hands up


----------



## xenon (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> £709 for the 64GB iPhone. £709!!!! Like I said, you must be minted!



Depends if you're on a contract, when it's up and erm... Well I didnt' have to pay anything to go from a Nokia E52 to my Iphona 5 up front and have somehow managed to go to a lower monthly tariff.

No way I'd buy any premium smart phone out right though.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

xenon said:


> Depends if you're on a contract, when it's up and erm... Well I didnt' have to pay anything to go from a Nokia E52 to my Iphona 5 up front and have somehow managed to go to a lower monthly tariff.
> 
> No way I'd buy any premium smart phone out right though.


Pretty sure there won't be free upgrades to the 5s unless you're already on an _almighty_ monthly tariff.  I bought my my equally capable smartphone for £420 with a £10/month rolling deal. I'd feel pretty uncomfortable paying much more than that.


----------



## xenon (Sep 10, 2013)

editor said:


> Pretty sure there won't be free upgrades to the 5s unless you're already on an _almighty_ monthly tariff.  I bought my my equally capable smartphone for £420 with a £10/month rolling deal. I'd feel pretty uncomfortable paying much more than that.




Sure. But I don't think many people pay out for bran new phones that often... Well obviously some people do. But It seems more the case newer models are the ones you try and angle for when your upgrade's due. I know plenty of people still using "dumb" phones on PAYG.

Not sure what my point is now. Just not everyone with a new-ish smart phone necessarily has to pay a wack up front.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2013)

xenon said:


> Not sure what my point is now. Just not everyone with a new-ish smart phone necessarily has to pay a wack up front.


Of course not, but they still end up paying the full whack eventually!


----------



## mauvais (Sep 11, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Haha! Wouldn't surprise me if that's unceremoniously dumped this year...


Well, the iPod Classic lives on. It's the future of all Apple products - the slowly dwindling cash cow.


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2013)

editor said:


> At those prices? You must be _minted_, sir!



Apples storage capacity costs are an ugly premium, but iPhones are hardly the only phone that costs a pretty penny. Just browsing around the o2 site at pay-as-you-go prices, not updated to reflect new iPhones yet, and the Samsung Galaxy S4 is £549 compared to £559 for the 4S 32GB and £620 for the 32GB iPhone 5. On apples own store the 5S 16GB is £549, so if storage capacity isn't a big issue for someone then I hardly think the iPhone is in a totally different universe of pricing. Certainly not to the extent that someone who really wanted one would be instantly and utterly dissuaded.

Personally, having switched to the Galaxy Nexus nearly 2 years ago after getting pissed off with Apple for slowing down my iPhone 3G too much with an iOS update, I am ready to switch back. I am rather poor at the moment so I cannot. Should a time come when I can afford it, I'll have to ask myself whether the somewhat cheaper 4S or 5C make any sense given that the 32GB 5C costs the same as the 16GB 5S. Since I don't need much storage I think the numbers may not add up, if I'm going to spend anything like £4500 for a phone I may as well get the best CPU etc available at the time since I'm certainly not someone who upgrades every year. The exception to this will be if I can find a bargain 2nd-hand iPhone 4S.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 11, 2013)

elbows said:


> if I'm going to spend anything like £4500 for a phone


Does it have four wheels and an engine attached?


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

elbows said:


> Apples storage capacity costs are an ugly premium, but iPhones are hardly the only phone that costs a pretty penny. Just browsing around the o2 site at pay-as-you-go prices, not updated to reflect new iPhones yet, and the Samsung Galaxy S4 is £549 compared to £559 for the 4S 32GB and £620 for the 32GB iPhone 5. On apples own store the 5S 16GB is £549, so if storage capacity isn't a big issue for someone then I hardly think the iPhone is in a totally different universe of pricing.


I picked up my 16GB S4 for £420 off Amazon and bought a 64GB card for £38.

So that's £458 for the S4 + 80GB of storage. Sure seems a keener deal than £709 for the 64GB iPhone 5s.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2013)

editor said:


> Ricoh introduced a clever system where it was possible to upgrade both the sensor and the lens in a compact camera, effectively future proofing it for decades. It didn't sell well. As long as people are happy to join in with the new-phone-every-year bandwagon, this problem isn't going away for a long time.
> 
> And yes, it is madness, and most of us are all as guilty as hell too.
> 
> *puts hands up



Not me, I recently discovered all my old phones dating back 10 years in a drawer the other day.

I still haven't binned them 

(My old iPhones weren't there though, I've always sold those)


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Not me, I recently discovered all my old phones dating back 10 years in a drawer the other day.


But that's just as bad, perhaps even worse. If you gave away/sold your old phones then at least the technology and materials are still in use. But I'm just as bad. I've still got my old Nokia from 1993. I'm waiting for the retro revival and then I'll be riding that wave, baby,


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2013)

editor said:


> I picked up my 16GB S4 for £420 off Amazon and bought a 64GB card for £38.
> 
> So that's £458 for the S4 + 80GB of storage. Sure seems a keener deal than £709 for the 64GB iPhone 5s.



Yes it is a better deal, Apples storage prices suck as I acknowledged.

In any case my point remains that despite the continued emphasis on premium prices, the iPhone of certain storage sizes and models is not in a completely different universe of pricing to other premium smartphones. Apple probably do some calculations to estimate what percentage of potential owners are put off by the price, and how changing the equation slightly would alter their profits. And since there are some customers who would not want to be Apple customers at almost any price, I doubt they've got it all badly wrong.

The 5C pricing does still leave me scratching my head. Perhaps it will make more sense in a year, when presumably either the price will drop or there will be a 6C and the 5C price falls to the level they are now going to sell the 8gb 4S at. Or perhaps they are leaving some room to cut the price in 6 months or something to try to boost sales at a time when they tend to drop off.

One thing I can say about the new line-up is that finally there is an iPhone at a price that starts to make some vague sense for my mum. I wasn't very keen on the iPhone 4, so now the 4S is the 'budget' model I am happier. Or at least I would be if I could afford to buy her one to replace her hideous old mobile and tired kodak compact camera.


----------



## pesh (Sep 11, 2013)

editor said:


> I picked up my 16GB S4 for £420 off Amazon and bought a 64GB card for £38.
> 
> So that's £458 for the S4 + 80GB of storage. Sure seems a keener deal than £709 for the 64GB iPhone 5s.



blimey. it seems like Apple stick a premium on their phones. who knew.


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2013)

pesh said:


> blimey. it seems like Apple stick a premium on their phones. who knew.



Another side effect of a lack of innovation on Apples part. Without something genuinely new to sneer at, editors shtick is getting old. Goading people into saying they want one then sneering 'you must be minted' at them, I'm sure this isn't the first time he's pulled that one but hey, must still be entertaining himself with it so who am I to complain?


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2013)

About the disgusting looks of the 5C with those Apple cases:

My god they do look hideous to me. But for some years I've been confused about modern colour 'trends'. For example I started seeing people on telly etc wearing what looked to me like the most ludicrous, cheap garish plastic glasses/sunglasses. And I started seeing things that reminded me of some luminous green socks I had in 1989. So I have to ask, whats occurring out there? At first I thought people were being ironic but now I'm just confused.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

elbows said:


> Another side effect of a lack of innovation on Apples part. Without something genuinely new to sneer at, editors shtick is getting old. Goading people into saying they want one then sneering 'you must be minted' at them, I'm sure this isn't the first time he's pulled that one but hey, must still be entertaining himself with it so who am I to complain?


That's quite a dishonest spin you're putting on my comments there. Anyone who can afford £709 on a phone really is truly minted in my eyes. That's my honest opinion.

I think the iPhone 5s will be a splendid phone. The interface is super-slick and like just about all Apple products it will be wonderfully made. It's probably the best made phone you can buy. But there comes a time when it really is worth questioning the cost of these things.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 11, 2013)

The holes on the back of the cover only partly covering up the text is baffling to me. Steve Jobs would've had a fit at whoever let that out.


----------



## electroplated (Sep 11, 2013)

electroplated said:
			
		

> ↑
> I'm on the 4s and definitely will be waiting for the 6 or beyond unless I lose or break this one and have a cheap upgrade option





Kid_Eternity said:


> Why?



because I'm perfectly happy with the performance of the 4s, it's in good nick and nothing about the 5 or 5s tempts me to splash out on an upgrade yet. If IOS7 runs terribly on it that might force my hand slightly but I'm currently under the impression that shouldn't be a problem. I'll find out when I upgrade the OS!


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

Crispy said:


> The holes on the back of the cover only partly covering up the text is baffling to me. Steve Jobs would've had a fit at whoever let that out.


That really is the oddest design decision. And now it spells 'non'. It looks like a cheapo third party Poundland special. 







http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/10/do-i-like-the-iphone-5c-case-non/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2013)

Crispy said:


> The holes on the back of the cover only partly covering up the text is baffling to me. Steve Jobs would've had a fit at whoever let that out.


Yeah, they look like the sort of thing you'd pick up at a motorway service station for a fiver


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

£1 Poundland case unboxing video!


----------



## pesh (Sep 11, 2013)

editor said:


> That's quite a dishonest spin you're putting on my comments there. Anyone who can afford £709 on a phone really is truly minted in my eyes. That's my honest opinion.



likewise there will be a lot of people out there to whom the idea of spending over £90 on a pair of earbuds would imply you were minted. as would spending over £450 on a new phone when you have a perfectly good phone already.


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2013)

editor said:


> That's quite a dishonest spin you're putting on my comments there. Anyone who can afford £709 on a phone really is truly minted in my eyes. That's my honest opinion.



I don't doubt its your opinion, but I don't think my spin is dishonest. After all you are the one who leapt straight for the 64GB models price so you could start throwing a price of over £700 around. No doubt those who go for the 64GB models of Apple stuff are either well off, get work to buy it, have an important need for such capacity or have problems with budgeting or restraining their purchasing impulses. But such things were not enough to prevent my mind from going 'oh I've seen editor pull this one before' when I read your posts. You are perfectly entitled to your opinions and to voice your criticisms of Apple, I'm mostly moaning because I am bored of this, and I've been bored of it for years. It is not 2007 or 2008.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

pesh said:


> likewise there will be a lot of people out there to whom the idea of spending over £90 on a pair of earbuds would imply you were minted. as would spending over £450 on a new phone when you have a perfectly good phone already.


Oh dear. This is turning into one of those 'let's try and dig up something that has nothing to do with the argument but I may be able to score a cheap personal point by mentioning it' arguments. 

The iPhone 5s is - as far as I know - by far the most expensive regular consumer handset money can buy, so it's fair to say that anyone shelling out such a considerable sum won't be short in the cash department.

What people do or do not spend on headphones is gloriously irrelevant to that point.


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2013)




----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

elbows said:


> I don't doubt its your opinion, but I don't think my spin is dishonest. After all you are the one who leapt straight for the 64GB models price so you could start throwing a price of over £700 around. No doubt those who go for the 64GB models of Apple stuff are either well off, get work to buy it, have an important need for such capacity or have problems with budgeting or restraining their purchasing impulses. But such things were not enough to prevent my mind from going 'oh I've seen editor pull this one before' when I read your posts. You are perfectly entitled to your opinions and to voice your criticisms of Apple, I'm mostly moaning because I am bored of this, and I've been bored of it for years. It is not 2007 or 2008.


But you thought you'd still keep on posting up multiple times about it, and keep picking at the scab by posting up amusing videos? Nice one.


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2013)

I can post a couple of times, several times a year about it, and its still a long way away from the lengthy battles of the past. I am relatively restrained these days, mostly as a result of having seen quite enough of your debating tactics and your hilarious levels of self-awareness.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

elbows said:


> I can post a couple of times, several times a year about it, and its still a long way away from the lengthy battles of the past. I am relatively restrained these days, mostly as a result of having seen quite enough of your debating tactics and your hilarious levels of self-awareness.


So you thought you'd just add one more post on the topic and throw a little unpleasant ad hominem into the mix too. Great work.


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Sep 11, 2013)

editor said:


> £1 Poundland case unboxing video!




I thought this was going to be a wind up, but the fellah is dead serious!


----------



## mauvais (Sep 11, 2013)

Crispy said:


> The holes on the back of the cover only partly covering up the text is baffling to me. Steve Jobs would've had a fit at whoever let that out.


Says 'heat dissipation problem' to me.


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2013)

editor said:


> So you thought you'd just add one more post on the topic and throw a little unpleasant ad hominem into the mix too. Great work.



There is something about the lameness of your moral high horse that makes it kinda hard to resist.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

This guy's not getting a bit carried away. No sir. 
iOS 7's iBeacons could solve indoor mapping, make shopping better, and kill NFC


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

elbows said:


> There is something about the lameness of your moral high horse that makes it kinda hard to resist.


Can you just stop with the ad hominems now please? Ta.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

Here's a curiously downbeat video for the 5c. Ive sounds tired.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 11, 2013)

Is he 'beautifully, unapollogetically tired'?


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> Is he 'beautifully, unapollogetically tired'?


His voiceover seems to flit between little bursts of enthusiasm, bouts of tiredness and sounding like he's trying out for a job in the porn industry.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 11, 2013)

pesh said:


> blimey. it seems like Apple stick a premium on their phones. who knew.


Compered to the 32GB iP4, there's been a £30 increase which does seem rather unnecessary.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 11, 2013)

editor said:


> Ive sounds tired.


It sounds like he's caught in a parody loop - will the real Jony Ive please stand up.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2013)

This is a good commentary on the whole mobile industry: 



> *Apple's iPhone 5S, 5C debut: We live in boring times*
> Marketers will do their best to convince you otherwise, but smartphones now belong to a maturing industry with little sizzle.
> http://news.cnet.com/8301-13579_3-57602323-37/apples-iphone-5s-5c-debut-we-live-in-boring-times


/


----------



## Winot (Sep 11, 2013)

editor said:


> I think the iPhone 5s will be a splendid phone. The interface is super-slick and like just about all Apple products it will be wonderfully made. It's probably the best made phone you can buy. But there comes a time when it really is worth questioning the cost of these things.


 
Nothing wrong with questioning the cost - it is very high and whether it's worth going for 32GB over 16GB or for a different phone that costs 'only' £450 really is a #firstworldproblem.

However, there are a few complexities which lie behind questions of cost.  For example, does any of us know how many people out there are sufficiently 'minted'?  Perhaps there are even more people prepared to spend £704 on a phone than were prepared to spend £699 (from memory) on the last model (or did the iPhone 5 bomb?)  Or maybe some of those 'minted' individuals are going to sell their iPhone 5 for somewhere between £420-£575 in order to trade up.

Heck, it's complicated isn't it, the economics of the high-end mobile phone market?  D'you know what, after a bit of thought, I'm not sure I'm really in a position to express a strong opinion one way or the other.  I just hope _Apple's_ done some kind of research.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2013)

editor said:


> But that's just as bad, perhaps even worse. If you gave away/sold your old phones then at least the technology and materials are still in use. But I'm just as bad. I've still got my old Nokia from 1993. I'm waiting for the retro revival and then I'll be riding that wave, baby,



I know, but I just always chuck stuff in a drawer and forget about it, im a bit of a secret hoarder.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2013)

electroplated said:


> because I'm perfectly happy with the performance of the 4s, it's in good nick and nothing about the 5 or 5s tempts me to splash out on an upgrade yet. If IOS7 runs terribly on it that might force my hand slightly but I'm currently under the impression that shouldn't be a problem. I'll find out when I upgrade the OS!



I hear ya, I'm on the 4S but the battery life isn't what it was and that's a big deal for my line of work. My not bother updating to iOS7 until I read about the 4S users experience...


----------



## pinkychukkles (Sep 11, 2013)

I use an iphone 4 on Three - I have noticed that they are offering:


> *Faster internet, without the hefty price tag.*
> 
> We think everyone should enjoy the wonders of 4G, with no catches. So when we start rolling out 4G, we'll nudge up our customers who have a 4G Ready device at no extra cost. No hefty price tag. No extra charges. No expensive new phones or contracts. And no fuss. Great news.
> 
> http://www.three.co.uk/Discover/Built_for_internetting?site=d



The devil in the detail being that you have to possess a 4G compatible device _before_ they roll out the service wherever you are in order to qualify for the 'free' upgrade. Currently pay £10/pm for a sim-only deal, so makes for a luring enticement to get a 4G-ready phone.

I would like to upgrade but can't afford or therefore justify it in the near future atm. It's all a bit _meh_ to be honest, it may be wise to wait until spring next year to see if these fingerprint readers last in The Real World or if it will be another Antenna-gate or rather Finger-gate   ...

Eye-watering price but then again, if the camera's good enough for your needs then you won't be buying a separate digital camera and again, if you use it to listen to music then you won't be getting a separate digital music player either.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 11, 2013)

I was reading somewhere the finger scans would start to fail after 500 reads or 6 months of use - golden rule of Apple applies: Never be an early adopter/wait for the update.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 11, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I was reading somewhere the finger scans would start to fail after 500 reads or 6 months of use - golden rule of Apple applies: Never be an early adopter/wait for the update.


That would be a terrible flaw. It should stop working the day after the warranty expires like other computer kit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> That would be a terrible flaw. It should stop working the day after the warranty expires like other computer kit.



If that was true that'd be a massive PR disaster waiting to happen and demonstrates they'd learned nothing from the map issues of iOS 6...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2013)

Wow. I've read some pro Apple contortions in the past but is something else!


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 11, 2013)

I don't what I was expecting but I'm disappointed with the new iPhones. 

I get a new iPhone every 18 months or so and I don't expect I'll change the pattern but there is no excitement now waiting for he new iphone like I had waiting for the 3G and then the 4. 

From a cost point of view it works out about €25 per month to have a new phone every 18 months and I tend to think for the amount of use I get out of it, it's pretty good value.


----------



## elbows (Sep 11, 2013)

Failure after 500 reads is simply not anywhere close to a viable option. There are certain usage patterns where you could do that many scans in just a few weeks.

Apple are certainly not immune to making mistakes, but nobody would normally release a product that failed that quickly. The scanner is certainly something that may fail early in some units, but not for everyone. I think the 500 number is bullshit based on some other historical version of the technology, and the most obvious way that Apple have tried to introduce some longevity into the feature is by the use of sapphire.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 11, 2013)

elbows said:


> Failure after 500 reads is simply not anywhere close to a viable option. There are certain usage patterns where you could do that many scans in just a few weeks.


Come on I read it in the Guardian its gotta be true.  I had to back through my browser history to find where I read the 500 readings and bust comment, it was just a curious snippet that stuck with me.



> ...For example, a rumoured 500-scan limit "could be used up in only six months, based on users accessing multiple accounts three times a day. This would render the scanner useless for the remainder of a typical mobile phone contract, potentially 18 months," according to research by David Webber, managing director of Intelligent Environment, a specialist in the financial security field...
> Guardian


----------



## xenon (Sep 11, 2013)

The fingerprint reader unlocks the phone. I'd estimate 500 reads would be about 2 months for me. Probably a quicker. Gets used as an ebook reader, browser, watch, radio / podcast player, sometimes I even phone people...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 12, 2013)

The 500 reads things is quite clearly bollocks.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 12, 2013)

I read an poll somewhere (can't find it now) saying something (roughly from memory) like....

20-30% of current iPhone owners want to upgrade
30%+ of Blackberry owners want to change to iPhone 5
5-20% of Android owners want to change to iPhone 5


----------



## magneze (Sep 12, 2013)

It's the first iPhone I'd consider buying. The fingerprint unlock is a great idea and iOS no longer looks like a child's toy. Home screen widgets are still missing though. Having said that, I'm quite happy with my Nexus 4 which was about half the price.

I wonder if the fingerprint reader works through plastic - for example, if you have it in an armband for running.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

Badgers said:


> I read an poll somewhere (can't find it now) saying something (roughly from memory) like....
> 
> 20-30% of current iPhone owners want to upgrade
> 30%+ of Blackberry owners want to change to iPhone 5
> 5-20% of Android owners want to change to iPhone 5


When the Palm Pre was announced, I recall a poll declaring that a phenomenal amount of people saying that they were absolutely certainly 100% going to buy the thing, yes sir. These polls are bollocks.


----------



## devit (Sep 12, 2013)

A useful introduction to the 'new' features of the 5c & 5s


----------



## sim667 (Sep 12, 2013)

magneze said:


> It's the first iPhone I'd consider buying. The fingerprint unlock is a great idea and iOS no longer looks like a child's toy. Home screen widgets are still missing though. Having said that, I'm quite happy with my Nexus 4 which was about half the price.
> 
> I wonder if the fingerprint reader works through plastic - for example, if you have it in an armband for running.


 
I've never understood the point of widgets, if your apps work properly and quickly widgets become moot no?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> I've never understood the point of widgets, if your apps work properly and quickly widgets become moot no?


You're missing the point. With widgets you don't have to keep on opening up individual apps to find out information (bus times, weather, news, twitter updates etc), and can access everything you need from the home screen. They're a brilliant idea.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 12, 2013)

editor said:


> You're missing the point. With widgets you don't have to keep on opening up individual apps to find out information (bus times, weather, news, twitter updates etc), and can access everything you need from the home screen. They're a brilliant idea.


 
er.... so the same as the notifications pull down on ios then.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> er.... so the same as the notifications pull down on ios then.


Err, no.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 12, 2013)

editor said:


> Err, no.


 
so whats the difference? I can't visualise it?

edit.... I just googled, like widgets on mac osx.... which i never use


----------



## magneze (Sep 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> I've never understood the point of widgets, if your apps work properly and quickly widgets become moot no?


A desktop is different from a mobile. Bus times, weather and calendar widgets I use all the time. I just look at my phone and can see them all at a glance.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 12, 2013)

magneze said:


> A desktop is different from a mobile. Bus times, weather and calendar widgets I use all the time. I just look at my phone and can see them all at a glance.


 
Im not convinced id ever actually use them....

Not that it matters, there's no chance of me moving to android anyway.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Not that it matters, there's no chance of me moving to android anyway.


That's fine but if you're going to try and dismiss a feature that really is rather good, it might be an idea to actually try it out first.


----------



## pesh (Sep 12, 2013)

i've got about 6 or 7, BBC News, Poweramp, Tunein, Keep, Weather etc... very exciting at first for someone who had just moved over from iOS. i don't really use them any more, other than glancing at the weather occasionally, and thats normally built into the homescreen of most phones isn't it?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

pesh said:


> i've got about 6 or 7, BBC News, Poweramp, Tunein, Keep, Weather etc... very exciting at first for someone who had just moved over from iOS. i don't really use them any more, other than glancing at the weather occasionally, and thats normally built into the homescreen of most phones isn't it?


The Aix and BBC weather widgets are superb, and the Keep widget is particularly fantastic.

When I turn on my phone I can see upcoming calendar events, the weather, the time, the date and the BBC headlines all on one single screen. I can't imagine going back to any other OS that can't do that.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 12, 2013)

editor said:


> That's fine but if you're going to try and dismiss a feature that really is rather good, it might be an idea to actually try it out first.


 
Dont be silly, I doubt any tories have tried, JSA, DSA etc being dismissing it...... and they're clearly the people we should be presenting as inspirational people to our yoot.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 12, 2013)

tbf my widget is superb and no-one ever tries it out


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Dont be silly, I doubt any tories have tried, JSA, DSA etc being dismissing it...... and they're clearly the people we should be presenting as inspirational people to our yoot.


Um, OK.


----------



## magneze (Sep 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> tbf my widget is superb and no-one ever tries it out


Is it touch-enabled?


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 12, 2013)

I quite like the 5C and if I was going to buy an iPhone that's what I'd get. Criticizing it based on the case seems a bit silly to me. But the price? Sure.


----------



## xenon (Sep 12, 2013)

The 5C is basically the 5 in a new case isn't it? The 5 itself being discontinued. Shame they've gotten rid of the 16GB 4s too. Makes sense from Apples PoV of course.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

Badgers said:


> I read an poll somewhere (can't find it now) saying something (roughly from memory) like....
> 
> 20-30% of current iPhone owners want to upgrade
> 30%+ of Blackberry owners want to change to iPhone 5
> 5-20% of Android owners want to change to iPhone 5



Heh posting stuff like that on here is a red flag/bull move matey.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

xenon said:


> The 5C is basically the 5 in a new case isn't it? The 5 itself being discontinued. Shame they've gotten rid of the 16GB 4s too. Makes sense from Apples PoV of course.



I can see the 8gig 4S free on cheaper contracts doing well, I've known a few parents who got the 3GS last year who would love a 4S due to better battery and camera.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2013)

xenon said:


> The 5C is basically the 5 in a new case isn't it?



Yes.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

elbows said:


> Yes.


That changes_ everything._


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

elbows said:


> Yes.



Apparently it's unapologetically plastic.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2013)

editor said:


> That changes_ everything._



As far as I know that particular piece of silly hyperbole is 3 years and 3 months old.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm still laughing that people honestly thought Apple would release a ''budget'' phone and not continue down their well beaten path of ''premium'' product sales. Must be lots of tech bloggers crying into their frappucinos.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

elbows said:


> As far as I know that particular piece of silly hyperbole is 3 years and 3 months old.


Oh, there's lots more new daft stuff to choose from:
"The biggest thing to happen to iPhone since iPhone"
"Loving it is easy. That's why so many people do."


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apparently it's unapologetically plastic.


Unapologetic plastic is so much better than regular plastic.

I bet the tech labs at Samsung are busy right now trying to create their own brand of plastic which simply _refuses to apologise_.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 12, 2013)

To be fair I bet the 5C feels much less plasticky than any Samsung phone does. Of course that's probably reflected in the price, premium price for premium plastic?


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 12, 2013)

The metal frame would add to the heft too.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> To be fair I bet the 5C feels much less plasticky than any Samsung phone does.


That's because they don't use unapologetic plastic (not that my S4 feels even slightly plasticky). I imagine it's no better than the plastic used in the Lumia design they were so inspired by.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> To be fair I bet the 5C feels much less plasticky than any Samsung phone does. Of course that's probably reflected in the price, premium price for premium plastic?



That wouldn't be hard, Samsung makes some of the cheapest feeling phones I've ever come across.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> The metal frame would add to the heft too.



And probably weight thinking about it...


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

The iPhone 5c weighs about the same as the Samsung S4 (4.65 ounces vs 4.59 oz)
The 5s weighs 3.95oz.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

One of the more interesting posts on the new 64bit chip inside the 5S:



> As Schiller alluded to on stage, the move to 64-bit isn't unique to iOS. Your desktop computer almost certainly runs a 64-bit OS. Windows enabled 64-bit home computing back in 2005, while Apple's big push came with OS X Snow Leopard in 2009. Although the desktop space is still transitioning to 64-bit — many Windows and OS X apps still operate at 32-bit — iOS should be able to move over in record time thanks to Apple's supreme control over its mobile OS and development tools.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

Touch ID looks pretty damn fast:


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

Damning piece about the supposed benefits of a 64 bit phone. 



> While the new A7 chip is indeed faster than the previous A6 chip, having a 64-bit architecture does not offer any actual performance boost. There’s a reason why other companies like Samsung and HTC haven’t launched 64-bit enabled phones yet (Android doesn't support 64-bit so they couldn't but that’s not the only reason).
> 
> Having a 64-bit CPU along with more than 4 gigabyte of physical memory on a smartphone is practically pointless and will substantially decrease the battery life. Unless all the iOS apps are recompiled and optimized for 64-bit (something that will take years), there is no benefit of having a 64-bit CPU, other than to showoff.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

Another interesting piece on security and the fingerprint sensor:



> *Why is this so important?* -- Apple isn’t the first company to add a fingerprint reader to a phone. I’ve tested laptops with fingerprint readers and seen phones with embedded readers. The real excitement is that the company will make this technology accessible to many millions of consumers.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 12, 2013)

editor said:


> Damning piece about the supposed benefits of a 64 bit phone.
> "There’s a reason why other companies like Samsung and HTC haven’t launched 64-bit enabled phones yet"



Samsung appear to think it's worthwhile:
"The co-CEO implied that upcoming Samsung Galaxy-branded smartphones will be more powerful and faster by confirming that they would have 64-bit processing capability"


http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2013/09/133_142604.html


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

peterkro said:


> Samsung appear to think it's worthwhile:
> "The co-CEO implied that upcoming Samsung Galaxy-branded smartphones will be more powerful and faster by confirming that they would have 64-bit processing capability"
> 
> 
> http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2013/09/133_142604.html


It's the megapixel war all over again.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 12, 2013)

Anyone get to hear what went down at the China press presentation?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 12, 2013)

editor said:


> Um, OK.



Obscure humor fail


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

peterkro said:


> Samsung appear to think it's worthwhile:
> "The co-CEO implied that upcoming Samsung Galaxy-branded smartphones will be more powerful and faster by confirming that they would have 64-bit processing capability"
> 
> 
> http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/tech/2013/09/133_142604.html



Indeed although they said it won't be for a while, I think HTC said they're going 64bit too. It's a big shift for mobile, and has some pretty interesting implications for the future of mobile computing too. Trivial this ain't.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 12, 2013)

An Apple rip off that doesn't effect me but manages to irritate me nonetheless is when you buy an iPhone you only get 5GB free iCloud storage. If you want 50GB it's €80 a fucking year.

I guess 5GB is more than enough for the most but for example if you want to back up the photos to iCloud from the camera they spent a whole lot of their presentation horseshitting about you're going to have to pay for it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

Mr Retro said:


> An Apple rip off that doesn't effect me but manages to irritate me nonetheless is when you buy an iPhone you only get 5GB free iCloud storage. If you want 50GB it's €80 a fucking year.
> 
> I guess 5GB is more than enough for the most but for example if you want to back up the photos to iCloud from the camera they spent a whole lot of their presentation horseshitting about you're going to have to pay for it.



Never heard anyone complain about it only being 5gigs tbh, if you really need more than that you use another service or pay.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

The fingerprint sensor really has got people talking, this piece is about why it's not like the ones used on laptops previously?



> Most of the concerns are only relevant to older fingerprint sensors. What we’re seeing in the iPhone -- and will see in other devices soon -- uses a new generation of technology.
> 
> Although Apple bought Authentec, who put those annoying finger-graters onto a large proportion of laptops (complete with irritating software for mapping your fingerprints to your Windows password, web site passwords, and even launching different apps by swiping different fingers), the fingerprint reader on the iPhone 5S isn't going to be like that.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 12, 2013)

I am glad that Apple hasn't given up in the Smartphone market. I think their phones are cute little things even if they are a bit too expensive.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

I only wish there were more players than Apple and Google making a big splash, the market really needs a third or even a third platform.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 12, 2013)

Apple's shares fall on emerging market concerns
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24058630


> Apple's shares fell more than 5% as investors worried that the firm's latest iPhone models may not help it increase its share in emerging markets.


 
Even the cheap variant of the new phone is way way more money than the competing smart phones. I doubt they will sell many in China. Perhaps they don't want to.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)




----------



## weltweit (Sep 12, 2013)

Do I understand it right, they are going to continue selling the 4 and 4S ?

I now have a 4S and it seems fine to me.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 12, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Apple's shares fall on emerging market concerns
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-24058630
> 
> 
> Even the cheap variant of the new phone is way way more money than the competing smart phones. I doubt they will sell many in China. Perhaps they don't want to.


Apple shares always drop after releases of whatever type.The capitalists say "buy on the rumour sell on the release".


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Do I understand it right, they are going to continue selling the 4 and 4S ?
> 
> I now have a 4S and it seems fine to me.



They'll keep the 4S but in China they'll also keep the 4.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 12, 2013)

peterkro said:


> Apple shares always drop after releases of whatever type.The capitalists say "buy on the rumour sell on the release".


 
Surely that should be "buy on the rumour sell just before the release!"


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 12, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Do I understand it right, they are going to continue selling the 4 and 4S ?
> 
> I now have a 4S and it seems fine to me.


They don't sell the iPhone 4 any more, just the 5s, 5c and the 4s.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 12, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They'll keep the 4S but in China they'll also keep the 4.


No sign of the 4 on the Apple China website - http://www.apple.com/cn/iphone/compare/


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> No sign of the 4 on the Apple China website - http://www.apple.com/cn/iphone/compare/



http://appleinsider.com/articles/13...y-available-in-china-after-iphone-5s-5c-debut


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed although they said it won't be for a while, I think HTC said they're going 64bit too. It's a big shift for mobile, and has some pretty interesting implications for the future of mobile computing too. Trivial this ain't.



As far as users are concerned it really is trivial for some years to come. It certainly means that 64 bit won't have as protracted a birth on mobile as it did on the desktop, but in many ways so what? And even from a marketing point of view its a tad hollow for Apple in particular as so far they've decided never to dwell on the RAM spec of their iOS devices.

It's something they may as well do, but I can't think of any reasons to be at all impressed or excited about it in 2013. For many of the apps of the next few years, especially games, stuff like OpenGL ES3.0 is going to yield far more tangible improvements.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2013)

weltweit said:


> Do I understand it right, they are going to continue selling the 4 and 4S ?
> 
> I now have a 4S and it seems fine to me.


It is fine. The difference between the 4S and the 5 is minimal (having owned both) and the difference between each future model will be even less.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It is fine. The difference between the 4S and the 5 is minimal (having owned both) and the difference between each future model will be even less.


We're well into the law of diminishing returns as far as high end smartphones are concerned. Cameras can only get so good on account of the tiny sensors and lens, and CPUs are already more or less pointlessly powerful for the task in hand.


----------



## pesh (Sep 12, 2013)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

pesh said:


>



Haha!!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

elbows said:


> As far as users are concerned it really is trivial for some years to come. It certainly means that 64 bit won't have as protracted a birth on mobile as it did on the desktop, but in many ways so what? And even from a marketing point of view its a tad hollow for Apple in particular as so far they've decided never to dwell on the RAM spec of their iOS devices.
> 
> It's something they may as well do, but I can't think of any reasons to be at all impressed or excited about it in 2013. For many of the apps of the next few years, especially games, stuff like OpenGL ES3.0 is going to yield far more tangible improvements.



You obviously didn't read what I said, it has implications for the future in this future users will notice.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2013)

A professional photographer shares his views on the new camera in iPhone 5S:



> Unfortunately, cameras from many other phone companies like Samsung and Motorola simply don’t match up to the quality of images coming out of the iPhone. I’ve tried many, many different Android devices over the years which promised better images but none have delivered. The only real smartphone contender in the camera space is Nokia, which is doing some great stuff with the Lumia line. But where Nokia is pushing the pixel-count boundaries with the 41 megapixel Lumia 1020, Apple has chosen to go in a different direction.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2013)

There's been ample comparisons between the major smartphone makers, and the general consensus is always that all have their strengths and weaknesses with no runaway leader, regardless of what this "reformed photographer" (?) says. 

Sony's new camera is supposed to be a decent rival to the new Lumia, which many are touting as the best currently available.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2013)

Burberry to use iPhone 5S exclusively to film and shoot their London fashion show next week:



> Apple and fashion retailer Burberry have announced that Burberry’s London-based fashion shownext week will be captured entirely with the new iPhone 5s. Apple’s iPhone 5s, which was announced earlier this week, includes major camera enhancements with an improved aperture, dual-LED flash, and new camera software like slow-motion and burst modes.
> 
> “iPhone 5s makes it even easier to take great photos with the world’s most popular camera,” said Greg Joswiak, Apple’s vice president of iPhone & iOS Product Marketing. “We’re thrilled to see the amazing photos and HD video Burberry has captured with the incredible all-new iSight camera.”
> 
> While the iPhone 5s will officially hit stores on Friday, September 20th, Burberry’s show is on September 16th, so they will be getting early access to the device for this special partnership.



Was speaking with someone recently about how the BBC are using iPhone's to shoot packages more and more too.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Burberry to use iPhone 5S exclusively to film and shoot their London fashion show next week:


As yes, Burberry. Lovely people.

I wouldn't get too excited about this minor photo shoot either - it's standard marketing practice these days for a phone manufacturer. I'm going to a Lumia 1020 event next week and they've managed to get the rather more impressive duo of Bruce Weber and David Bailey to take pictures with the phone.

And here's the kind of press it brings:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...ps-using-SMARTPHONES-theres-selfie-sight.html


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You obviously didn't read what I said, it has implications for the future in this future users will notice.



What are the interesting implications then? I struggle to find the prospect of smartphones and tablets one day having more than 4GB of RAM to be interesting, nor do I see what future implications for users are suddenly unlocked by it. Attempts to provide one in articles mostly consist of fairly meaningless drivel about the post-pc era. Hell there are still many scenarios where I don't get to make good or interesting use of more than 4GB on the desktop, so I think it will be a long time before it matters much for mobiles. Not to mention that solid state storage has somewhat reduced the performance implications of having stuff sitting waiting in ram as opposed to having to load it from storage when needed.


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> One of the more interesting posts on the new 64bit chip inside the 5S:



The following from that article is laughable bullshit that demonstrates the authors lack of understanding.



> The company's development software, Xcode, will likely make 64-bit the default for developers, dispelling any fear that iOS will suddenly become a difficult OS to program for.



Actually there are a number of issues that developers have to be aware of when targeting 64-bit, and some apps are almost bound to introduce bugs or things that actually reduce performance & increase device memory use while devs at various levels of understanding get their heads round this stuff. Compared to actually writing code, the default targets set by Xcode are a trivial part of the mix.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2013)

The iPhone 5s is now on pre order on Vodafone. 

12 month deals: iPhone 5c 32GB  for £249 plus £52/month, or £149 upfront and £62/month.
http://www.techdigest.tv/2013/09/vodafone_uk_iph.html


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 13, 2013)

editor said:


> The iPhone 5s is now on pre order on Vodafone.


5c rather than 5s.

O2 have the 5c on pre-order too. https://www.o2.co.uk/shop/phones#search=5c&page=1


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> 5c rather than 5s.
> 
> O2 have the 5c on pre-order too. https://www.o2.co.uk/shop/phones#search=5c&page=1


Apols for typo. £62/month is one of the highest tariffs I've seen in a long time so I dread to think what the 5s is going to be.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 13, 2013)

As always it depends which deal you pick.
£62/mo is the 12 month 4G 8GB tariff - i.e. the most expensive option possible.

The 16GB Galaxy S4 is also £62/mo on that tariff, but you only pay £49 up front for that.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2013)

£62 a month is fucking daft, no matter what it is.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2013)

Gold Master of iOS7 running on iPhone 4, impressive speeds for a three year old phone: 

[media]http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=.../watch?v=J_b7pmR7dnY&feature=youtu.be[/media]


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 13, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Gold Master of iOS7 running on iPhone 4, impressive speeds for a three year old phone:


That's a good result on an old phone, along with the How To Install iOS7 video things are looking good.


Spoiler


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> That's a good result on an old phone, along with the How To Install iOS7 video things are looking good.
> 
> 
> Spoiler




Indeed, far better than how iOS 5 ran on my 3GS for the couple weeks I had it before getting the 4S...


----------



## Kanda (Sep 13, 2013)

Might breathe some life into my 4S, seems really slow these days.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2013)

Kanda said:


> Might breathe some life into my 4S, seems really slow these days.



Mine is slower but not annoyingly so but it's the battery life I'm missing, it now barely gets me through two thirds of a moderate day where it used to get me through the entire day with about 10-15% left on it...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2013)

Microsoft have clearly hired some world class comedians for their latest parody ad:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2013)

64bit iOS7 seems to have got a few people curious...



> One of the most peculiar announcements yesterday was that iOS 7 was now 64-bit. Apple seems to have left out that announcement at WWDC, possibly to avoid revealing that the A7 chip(and hence the next iPhone) would be 64-bit capable. Many seem to have assumed that this is just Apple preparing for the eventual transition. I think there's more to it than that.
> 
> Apple made a similar full-scale transition to 64-bit on the Mac with Snow Leopard in 2009. At the time, Macs were already at the point of reaching 4GB and above memory capacities. This isn't the case with the 5S today, or even for the majority of Android phones.



Full article


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 13, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Microsoft have clearly hired some world class comedians for their latest parody ad:


As a YT comedy sketch it's marginally clever/funny, but to have been released by MS then it's truly tragic.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 13, 2013)

Tbh I think iOS7 is a bigger deal than the 5s. The 5c is a pisstake, just the 5 in a plastic body for about the same price as the 5. 

iOS7 will be of much more significance, there's becoming less and less reasons to upgrade to the latest iPhone. Steve Jobs would be fucking fuming about the 5c and those revolting cases IMO 

Meh.. Happy with my Nexus 4 for the time being.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2013)

Would be inclined to agree that iOS7 is a bigger deal than the hardware for them...think the 64bit move is very significant. Apple certainly have taken the industry by surprise on that one. Wondering if it relates to some kind of dual Mac OSX/iOS merge at some point over the next few years too...


----------



## elbows (Sep 13, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> 64bit iOS7 seems to have got a few people curious...
> 
> Full article



I dispute a lot of the premises in this article as well.

It would not surprise me if Apple were working on some kind of successor to the Apple TV that has a gaming focus, but I depute the idea that this necessitates 8GB of RAM just because the next gen consoles have that much. If they were really to attempt to compete against such consoles, there are many other parts of the mix required. Far more CPU & GPU grunt than any of their iOS devices have, and graphics that go beyond what OpenGL ES 3.0 can provide. Plus if they are going to build something of next-gen console spec then given Apples traditions the price will absolutely suck. And the sort of games people run on high-end consoles are not exactly comparable to the titles people have developed for iOS to date.

Nope, it doesn't add up for me, not at this moment in time anyway. I would not be at all shocked if they came out with something that lets you play games on the telly, but I suspect it would be more like PS Vita spec than PS 4 spec. And that means more like 512MB-1GB of RAM than 8GB.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2013)

I've read an awful lot of immense toilet on the subject of the 64-bit chip today, a lot of it based around the dead idea of device convergence, everything is going to be running the same OS in the same brand, that we'll all have one device that we take out and plug into a screen and keyboard when we get home etc. Did I mention it was a dead idea? It's a dead idea. Nobody who knows shit about how real people use technology has believed that for a good decade. It's been proved completely duff time and time again (hello iOS & OS X, hello Windows 8 arf) yet it still keeps coming out. _Shut up with that._


----------



## xenon (Sep 13, 2013)

There's 2 broad cattogries of devices I reckon. Personal and installed. That is phones, tablets laptops to an extent on one side. TV's desktops games consols on the other. 

I mean, you're not gonna take a private call on your home entertainment system when it interrupts the film your watching and everyone can see who's calling. Your not gonna play a visually emercive game or write a novel on your phone.


----------



## elbows (Sep 14, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I've read an awful lot of immense toilet on the subject of the 64-bit chip today, a lot of it based around the dead idea of device convergence, everything is going to be running the same OS in the same brand, that we'll all have one device that we take out and plug into a screen and keyboard when we get home etc. Did I mention it was a dead idea? It's a dead idea. Nobody who knows shit about how real people use technology has believed that for a good decade. It's been proved completely duff time and time again (hello iOS & OS X, hello Windows 8 arf) yet it still keeps coming out. _Shut up with that._



The idea of one device is pretty dead, and its not in the corporations interests anyway since they want you to buy multiple devices. And phablets seem to be a small niche.

The cloud & services provided by companies that also make the OS platforms, along with OS-specific app stores, keeps a modern version of the idea around a bit, but its not the phenomenon its blown up to be. It makes sense for some people to have the same OS on their phone, tablet & perhaps TV box, and we hear comments bout this stuff expressed negatively via phrases like 'being locked into Apples ecosystem'. I feel the pull of this only to the extent that I would like to share some apps between my phone and tablet without paying again, and I do have my music stored in Apples cloud due to the premium storage costs on iOS devices and the fact I put a relatively small SSD in my laptop.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2013)

Watch iOS 6 Morph Into iOS 7 in One GIF


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 15, 2013)

You can _almost quite _tell the difference. Perhaps if you squint and unfocus your eyes, like a magic eye picture.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 15, 2013)

It's far too weird to contemplate, a farting orgasm face.

In other news, MS withdraws its parody vids.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 15, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> It's far too weird to contemplate, a farting orgasm face.
> 
> In other news, MS withdraws its parody vids.



Yeah I read that but didn't see why, any idea?


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 15, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah I read that but didn't see why, any idea?


I'm guessing people are getting tired of the attack ads, a lot of tech-heads gave it the thumbs down - although not much was said about Apple's veiled dig (Samsung watch?) with the 'inventing technology for technology sake' quip at the iP5s launch.


----------



## elbows (Sep 15, 2013)

Apparently some people got the hump because they thought one of the characters looked a bit like Steve Jobs, so that was probably an additional factor in Microsoft yanking the video.


----------



## elbows (Sep 15, 2013)

But I expect the main reason was how cheap it seemed, and even by geek ad standards the level of humour was sub-par. It made Samsungs wacky adverts seem like a million dollar laugh riot by comparison.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 15, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I'm guessing people are getting tired of the attack ads, a lot of tech-heads gave it the thumbs down - although not much was said about Apple's veiled dig (Samsung watch?) with the 'inventing technology for technology sake' quip at the iP5s launch.



Ah thought it might have been a legal thing not a 'dear god that is crap' kinda thing.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 17, 2013)

iOS7 is out today.  I think its a better upgrade for my iPad than its going to be for my old 4 which is still going strong.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2013)

Sunray said:


> iOS7 is out today.  I think its a better upgrade for my iPad than its going to be for my old 4 which is still going strong.


Tomorrow, isn't it?


----------



## peterkro (Sep 17, 2013)

Usual warning to jailbreakers stay away.Planetbeing has said they've already made some progress,here's to a JB before Xmas.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 17, 2013)

I think I'll leave the update for a few days, so how it beds in with braver users.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2013)

Interesting piece in the Guardian looking at post-Jobs Apple and innovation. 


> That's one big change to the Apple business model. The other is structural. In the early days, Jobs laid a lot of emphasis on making his goods in the US. That's barely the case now: Apple has morphed into a design and retail business that orders in its manufactures from a network of more than 150 companies, usually based abroad. That makes it a more profitable enterprise but it also means that Apple is effectively outsourcing its thinking about production and components to others. In 1999, a pair of organisational academics noted that there was something curious about Jobs's employees: "People were recruited to Apple with the idea that they would be helping to change the world. Apple was more than a company; it was a cause." But what happens to a cause when most of its parts and its software come in from a variety of points scattered far, far away from the Cupertino HQ?
> 
> None of these changes happened overnight in the summer of 2011. It was under Jobs that Cook came to prominence. What seems to be happening to Apple now is a culmination of trends that have been in play for years, and which are no longer being offset.
> 
> ...


----------



## sim667 (Sep 17, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Tomorrow, isn't it?


 
I thought that too.

Some people seem to have major battery life problems, with it, some dont.

I cant decide whether to jump in and upgrade straight away.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 17, 2013)

I think I am getting confused with GTA V


----------



## Sunray (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> Interesting piece in the Guardian looking at post-Jobs Apple and innovation.



Perhaps, but they redefined personal computing with the iPad only a few years ago. 

These things take a long time to make well and Apple do make nice kit.  They have only created three new things in 13 years. 

Its folly to predict they aren't going to do it again?


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Perhaps, but they redefined personal computing with the iPad only a few years ago.


Not for me they didn't.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> Not for me they didn't.




I'm a stickle for my laptop, I can't remember the last time I touched my iPad other than to pass to the other half.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> Not for me they didn't.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 17, 2013)

I am myself watching Apple's recent activities and design direction with a frown, but not because of the 5S "lacking innovation". Seriously. "Oh it didn't have any timewasting features that Engadget can write about and then forget in a month, Samsung has a phone that knows what colour your pants are, SELL APPL". If anything it encourages me to think that Apple aren't cocking about with pointless shit on what is a solid brand. Okay, apart from the fingerprint lock.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I am myself watching Apple's recent activities and design direction with a frown, but not because of the 5S "lacking innovation". Seriously. "Oh it didn't have any timewasting features that Engadget can write about and then forget in a month, Samsung has a phone that knows what colour your pants are, SELL APPL". If anything it encourages me to think that Apple aren't cocking about with pointless shit on what is a solid brand. Okay, apart from the fingerprint lock.


But there has been interesting and genuinely useful innovation elsewhere - Google Now, NFC, larger screen sizes, widgets etc - that Apple have either largely chosen to ignore or just to quietly steal (Android notifications, Palm OS cards, Windows flat look etc).


----------



## Sunray (Sep 17, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I'm a stickle for my laptop, I can't remember the last time I touched my iPad other than to pass to the other half.



I was a big skeptic on iPads.  The full iPads are just too heavy. They made it perfect when they made the mini.  Use it all the time.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 17, 2013)

Sunray said:


> I was a big skeptic on iPads.  The full iPads are just too heavy. They made it perfect when they made the mini.  Use it all the time.


I have a MBP retina and an iPad retina - but what would be ideal would be the iPad-mini retina


----------



## Sunray (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> But there has been interesting and genuinely useful innovation elsewhere - Google Now, NFC, larger screen sizes, widgets etc - that Apple have either largely chosen to ignore or just to quietly steal (Android notifications, Palm OS cards, Windows flat look etc).



None of that is innovation.


RedDragon said:


> I have a MBP retina and an iPad retina - but what would be ideal would be the iPad-mini retina



I don't wait for stuff that doesn't exist.  If and when comes out, i'll buy one, but until that point, I'll enjoy my Mini which both exists and I own.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2013)

Sunray said:


> None of that is innovation.


Er, yes it is. Google Now is genuinely useful and although not fully formed is far more of an advance than changing the icon colours around a bit or creating even more high powered, battery-sucking CPUs.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2013)

Sunray said:


> I was a big skeptic on iPads.  The full iPads are just too heavy. They made it perfect when they made the mini.  Use it all the time.


Thank goodness Apple saw sense after Jobs died and copied what their competitors were doing. Smaller tablets are far more flexible than thumping great heavy 10 inch ones.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> Not for me they didn't.



You wouldn't have your nexus 7 if it wasn't for the iPad.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> Thank goodness Apple saw sense after Jobs died and copied what their competitors were doing. Smaller tablets are far more flexible than thumping great heavy 10 inch ones.


 
I'd disagree with that.

Saw my first ipad mini today, not stoked. Much prefer my ipad 4.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> Interesting piece in the Guardian looking at post-Jobs Apple and innovation.



I agree with this article somewhat. In the without-Jobs decline period of the '90s, it was a company that seemed to want to become some giant IBM like behemoth, which was all about share prices and having products for every sector of the IT space (including some weird home user stuff too). When Jobs returned, he streamlined it all and began the Johnny Ive era of slick products and slick marketing that meant they could actually justify to consumers the high prices and margins.

Now he's gone and all the talk is about stock prices, share buyouts and the like.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2013)

souljacker said:


> You wouldn't have your nexus 7 if it wasn't for the iPad.


Ah, the Reality Distortion Field in action!


----------



## souljacker (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> Ah, the Reality Distortion Field in action!



What do you mean?


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2013)

souljacker said:


> What do you mean?


Apple refined the concept, but tablets were around long before the iPad and technology was already moving in that direction. To suggest that no tablet would exist today if it wasn't for Apple is a nonsense.

Look - here's an tablet concept from _1968._


----------



## souljacker (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> Apple refined the concept, but tablets were around long before the iPad and technology was already moving in that direction. To suggest that no tablet would exist today if it wasn't for Apple is a nonsense.



I didn't suggest that at all. But they created the mass market of tablets. If you can't admit that then you are being stubborn.

Name one tablet from before the iPad and then tell me if it was any good. If you can, I'll give you a biscuit.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2013)

souljacker said:


> I didn't suggest that at all. But they created the mass market of tablets. If you can't admit that then you are being stubborn.
> 
> Name one tablet from before the iPad and then tell me if it was any good. If you can, I'll give you a biscuit.


That's not what you were arguing. You were claiming that no other tablets _wouldn't exist today_ if it wasn't for the iPad.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> That's not what you were arguing. You were claiming that no other tablets _wouldn't exist today_ if it wasn't for the iPad.



No I didnt. I said you wouldn't have a nexus 7 if it weren't for the iPad.


----------



## magneze (Sep 17, 2013)




----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2013)

souljacker said:


> No I didnt. I said you wouldn't have a nexus 7 if it weren't for the iPad.


Oh right. So you're arguing that _one specific tablet_ wouldn't exist if the iPad hadn't been invented?


----------



## souljacker (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> Oh right. So you're arguing that _one specific tablet_ wouldn't exist if the iPad hadn't been invented?




Come on, its not rocket science. I'm arguing that home user consumer grade tablets would not exist if it wasn't for the iPad. Or, if they did exist, they would still be a rather shit niche product. 

Did you ever get a go on some of the shite 'tablets' that were around pre-iPad? They were comically bad.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2013)

souljacker said:


> Come on, its not rocket science. I'm arguing that home user consumer grade tablets would not exist if it wasn't for the iPad. Or, if they did exist, they would still be a rather shit niche product.


I didn't realise Apple were such visionaries. The tablet form factor had already entered the mainstream thanks to the Kindle (released 2007) and several other manufacturers were working with the format. Apple refined it and certainly accelerated consumer interest with their superslick offering but if you're arguing that tablets _would never have happened to this day_ (as in the Nexus) without the iPad, then I disagree very strongly indeed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2013)

Sunray said:


> iOS7 is out today.  I think its a better upgrade for my iPad than its going to be for my old 4 which is still going strong.



Tomorrow? Also, is it coming out for iPad? They didn't make a big deal about it at the keynote last week...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I think I'll leave the update for a few days, so how it beds in with braver users.



Yeah also the servers will get caned tomorrow evening so updating will probably be a right arseache...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> I didn't realise Apple were such visionaries. The tablet form factor had already entered the mainstream thanks to the Kindle (released 2007) and several other manufacturers were working with the format. Apple refined it and certainly accelerated consumer interest with their superslick offering but if you're arguing that tablets _would never have happened to this day_ (as in the Nexus) without the iPad, then I disagree very strongly indeed.


OK, the Nexus in its current form wouldn't exist.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I've read an awful lot of immense toilet on the subject of the 64-bit chip today, a lot of it based around the dead idea of device convergence, everything is going to be running the same OS in the same brand, that we'll all have one device that we take out and plug into a screen and keyboard when we get home etc. Did I mention it was a dead idea? It's a dead idea. Nobody who knows shit about how real people use technology has believed that for a good decade. It's been proved completely duff time and time again (hello iOS & OS X, hello Windows 8 arf) yet it still keeps coming out. _Shut up with that._



Nah you're wrong.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2013)

editor said:


> I didn't realise Apple were such visionaries. The tablet form factor had already entered the mainstream thanks to the Kindle (released 2007) and several other manufacturers were working with the format. Apple refined it and certainly accelerated consumer interest with their superslick offering but if you're arguing that tablets _would never have happened to this day_ (as in the Nexus) without the iPad, then I disagree very strongly indeed.



It's impossible to say for sure where tablets would have been by 2013 without the iPad. Even with smartphones it's impossible to guess where they would have been by now without the iPhone, since touch-screen phones already existed when the iPhone came out but they were mostly crap for a number of reasons. It's hard to say how quickly others may have risen to the challenge of putting together a multitouch screen and mobile OS that wasn't annoying and had great developer & user momentum behind it. Have to imagine that others would have got there eventually, and apple accelerated things not by being especially innovative, but by simply making products that consisted of a different set of compromises to those other manufacturers chose at the time.

We can say that a few android tablets that were not very good existed before the iPad, e.g. by the likes of Archos.

And as I suggested at the time, the Nexus 7 was probably a response to a number of things:

Amazon somewhat spoiling Googles entire reason for making Android (to get people using Google services etc).
To try and improve the state of android tablet apps.
Non-Amazon android tablets costing too much money, and not enough of them being sold.

We can also look back at the first 30 or so pages of the first u75 iPad thread to see what people were really thinking at the time. Its a very mixed bag, and no surprises that people like editor were skeptical, although he did wonder if he would look back in 6 months and kick himself for not realising what a soaraway success the iPad was destined to be.

Anyway rather than indulge in the usual arguments I will attempt once again to put all of this stuff not in terms of innovation, but simply different sets of compromises. If we look at the set compromises that arguably were part of the design that made the iPad and the iPhone successes, we can see that some limitations became the accepted norm that helped enable competing products to come to fruition, but others provided room for competitors to differentiate themselves from Apple. Here are some of the most obvious examples:

Limitations mostly accepted and also present in most competing devices:

Lack of Adobe Flash support.
Lack of removable battery.
App Stores.
Not the same versions of apps that we are used to running on desktops etc.

Compromises not so often present in Android etc:

Lack of external storage (usb & memory cards)

Obviously its more complicated than that, with degrees of flexibility in terms of choice of App stores, and Samsung in particular trying to bring back some stuff in some of their niche devices that Apple threw away such as multitasking with more than one app on the screen at once, stylus, etc.

I place no bets as to whether Apple will succeed many years into the future, but I certainly don't think they need to innovate as often as some seem to think they do. They can live with quite a lot of competition and loss of market share, and slow incremental upgrades to product spec. And they set the scene for us all to have lots more decent phones & tablets to choose from by giving these segments a kick up the arse back in the day. Efficient mobile OS, good use of multitouch-screen and App Stores were the solid foundation that we got earlier than we would have done without Apples iOS gamble.

And I do believe that even if Steve Jobs hadn't died, they would have done an iPad mini eventually. Perhaps a little later than they did without Jobs, but when alive he wasn't afraid to contradict himself just a few years later, and I see no reason why it would have been any different with smaller tablets.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2013)

It's called Apple iPhone...and yet again another thread has been derailed by this boring repeat of the Editors apple psychosis...


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2013)

Its hardly a psychosis. Though if you'd like to ramp the hyperbole up to that level then its probably fair game to call you a sociopath.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 17, 2013)

I forget which Apple thread I'm posting on they're all so homogenised.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I forget which Apple thread I'm posting on they're all so homogenised.



Usually due to the fact that any news added to them gets the same tired responses...


----------



## souljacker (Sep 18, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's called Apple iPhone...and yet again another thread has been derailed by this boring repeat of the Editors apple psychosis...



Its called apple iphone and related items. I reckon that covers iPads, iOS and various discussions about Apple.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 18, 2013)

tbf all the above do have their own specific threads.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 18, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> tbf all the above do have their own specific threads.



True. I was merely pointing out that its a perfectly acceptable place to discuss iPads. I don't know why I bother though. KE just uses all these threads to have pathetic digs at editor anyway and editor responds by being stubborn and arrogant.

Anyway, back in the real world, has anyone seen the update become available for iOS 7? Its not shown up on my iPhone or iPad yet.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 18, 2013)

I reckon we'll have to wait until 5 or 6pm for iOS7


----------



## souljacker (Sep 18, 2013)

My iPhone is a work one so I can't really risk a new OS until I'm happy its not a bug ridden mess so I'll wait anyway. The upgrade to v6 lost a load of settings for our corporate wifi access and I cant take that risk again.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 18, 2013)

I think I'll wait until late Friday evening before attempting it - luckily I can practice on my partner's phone.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 18, 2013)

Why the new phone is 64 bit and why it matters:

ARM is going through the same 32-64 bit transition that X86 did ten years ago. The new V8 ARM designs are the first 64 bit chips from the company. The instruction set is all new, allowing them to drop all the cruft built up over the last 20 years of 32 bit ARM chips, allowing for a more power efficient design. The new chips are faster not because they are 64 bit (like for like, 64 bit is actually slower, as it must shift larger chunks of data around at any one time). They are faster because they are a clean slate design.

The other advantage that 64 bit chips bring is being able to address >4GB of RAM. This is not wanted now, but in a few years time, when it is, iOS will have made the transition already, with all apps and OS services running in the new architecture. 

If you can stomach John Gruber's fanboyism, his review of the new phones has the benchmarks. The 5S is twice as fast as the previous 5. It is faster than any android phone or tablet on the market, by some margin. This is thanks to the clean-slate V8 ARM core.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2013)

Crispy said:


> If you can stomach John Gruber's fanboyism, his review of the new phones has the benchmarks.


He seems to have gone more fanboyish with each and every (generally underwhelming) Apple update. I can't take him seriously any more.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 18, 2013)

People are always saying that Apple launches are underwhelming though, it's only with time you see how ahead their stuff can be. iPhone? Meh, didn't have 3G. iPad? Meh, just a big iPhone. Air? Meh, just a thin laptop etc. Yet look at how they've set the bar for their respective fields.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2013)

Launching being exciting are fairly irrelevant at this point. Interesting that as levels of tech blog mehness rises so does sales, perhaps consumers aren't that interested in keynote speeches?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2013)

On a more specific note: anyone got any good links to video showing iOS 7 running on iPhone 4S?


----------



## EastEnder (Sep 18, 2013)

Official crackdown on Apple fanboi 'shanty town' ahead of London iPhone launch
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2013/0...n_fanbois_shanty_town_ahead_of_iphone_launch/







> Apple staff have told the two fanbois that they are trying to reach Tim Cook himself to help persuade Westminster Council to give the pair the license they need to keep dry whilst they wait to get their latest iPhone hit.



Probably inconsequential, but bearded twatboi has suspiciously perky tits....


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2013)

EastEnder said:


> Official crackdown on Apple fanboi 'shanty town' ahead of London iPhone launch


An estate agent pleads to Tim Cook: "let us clutter up the streets with our weird obsession". Jeez.


> Apple staff have told the two fanbois that they are trying to reach Tim Cook himself to help persuade Westminster Council to give the pair the license they need to keep dry whilst they wait to get their latest iPhone hit.
> 
> Michael Roberts, a 23-year-old estate agent from Hampton Court who bears a striking similarity to Henry VIII, has waited outside the Apple store for several days before the launch of every mobe since the iPhone 4. He arrived at the Apple Store yesterday and is waiting in line just behind his chum Noah Green, a 17-year-old student from Hampstead.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> People are always saying that Apple launches are underwhelming though, it's only with time you see how ahead their stuff can be. iPhone? Meh, didn't have 3G. iPad? Meh, just a big iPhone. Air? Meh, just a thin laptop etc. Yet look at how they've set the bar for their respective fields.


What 'bar' was set by the iPhone 5 exactly?


----------



## Winot (Sep 18, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I reckon we'll have to wait until 5 or 6pm for iOS7



I'm getting an error trying to connect - anyone else?


----------



## Kanda (Sep 18, 2013)

Winot said:


> I'm getting an error trying to connect - anyone else?



Lots and lots of people it seems. Bound to be overloaded bang on 6


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2013)

Kanda said:


> Lots and lots of people it seems. Bound to be overloaded bang on 6



Yeah I doubt there are many sites in the world that can deal with a 100 million + people turning up at once.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 18, 2013)

overload is massive - some download times are saying 4 hours


----------



## spacemonkey (Sep 18, 2013)

I just installed it over Wifi 35mins after it was launched. Not bad!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> overload is massive - some download times are saying 4 hours



Bloody hell.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 18, 2013)

Mines done, took about 90 mins in total.


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 18, 2013)

Installing to phone and ipad now.  I might pop over to Facebook to troll anyone raging about not being able to get the download to start


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Mines done, took about 90 mins in total.



First impressions of it?


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 18, 2013)

Quite liking it on my phone so far.  The new control centre is quite handy, finally an in built torch function


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2013)

Which model?


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 18, 2013)

5

Just loading on my ipad mini now


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2013)

Aha.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 18, 2013)

It's looking snazzy so far. Really like how clean it all looks. Given up trying to update it on my iPad, however. It was telling me it was going to take 9 hours to download, so fuck that until tomorrow.


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 18, 2013)

Yeah, control centre and task manager seem much slicker


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2013)

Good new features (awaits the usual cliched post about how some other company had those features in 1896).


----------



## pinkychukkles (Sep 18, 2013)

Gonna wait to see how it beds in with the early downloaders...
I have 2+ yr old iphone 4, wonder how it will impact it's performance? Anyone else updating an iphone 4 to iOS7, lemme know.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 18, 2013)

The well known Apple sceptic, Charles Arthur, gives his review on the update. Guardian


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 18, 2013)

I don't actually like how it looks. Though I expect in a few months I'll have forgotten what it used to look like. But too many of the icons look crap and it just feels... cluttered, much more so than it used to with exactly the same number of icons and groups. I'll work out why it feels like that.


----------



## dogmatique (Sep 18, 2013)

Just waiting for my install to finish - anyone who gets to the end of the download process and gets an "unavailable at this time" message - it's just the verification servers taking a hammering.  Quit the update process and go back in, hit install again and it will re-query the verification server.  Mine got it on the third attempt. No biggie.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 18, 2013)

I've got the download but haven't been able to get the verification bit done for over half an hour now.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 18, 2013)

I like so far, nice sleek design, like the dynamic wallpapers, but hope they'll become customizable.

One beef I have is that now it shows all unread mail on the server, rather than just syncing the last year or so...... I've now got 400 unread emails.

I'll be interested to see how my battery life does with it


----------



## sim667 (Sep 18, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've got the download but haven't been able to get the verification bit done for over half an hour now.



I had that problem on my wifi, but then it worked first time over my iPhones 3G (with personal hotspot installing ios 7 on my ipad).

I think the servers are just getting hammered.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 18, 2013)

I do like the fact that all you tabs and iCloud tabs are one list now on the iphone


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 18, 2013)

Got it installed on my iPad. First thought: fucking hell this shit is bright! Everything is just bright. Need to turn down screen brightness another 20% I reckon...


----------



## electroplated (Sep 18, 2013)

verification took many attempts, then I tried restarting the phone instead and that kicked in the install of the (already downloaded) update.

Initial thoughts are it'll take some getting used to aesthetically, but the new features are all going to be handy, some much more than others no doubt.

Animations when coming in and out of screens are a touch slow. Possibly not an issue on newer models than my 4s...

Overall, glad I updated.


edit - it thinks I'm in a different time zone...15:01 apparently


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 18, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> But too many of the icons look crap and it just feels... cluttered, much more so than it used to with exactly the same number of icons and groups.


It does look quite busy. It seems you can now add more icons to folders which might be useful, but it might make it harder to find apps that are hidden away on the second page


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 18, 2013)

The grey background for icon folders looks crap - it is borderless and also too light and obtrusive, in contrast to icons for apps which were designed with dark backgrounds in mind.


----------



## dogmatique (Sep 18, 2013)

They've certainly got some work to do on the usability of the UX - though it's a lot better than some of the earlier iterations - they've fattened some of the fonts and changed the backgrounds.  That said, I'm still quite surprised about how... unintuitive some of the simple actions are, now that they've taken away the defined swipes and stuff.  I'm sure the much maligned Scott Forstall is having an interesting day looking at the feedback... There was reason for font shadows, outlines and the like - Usability!


----------



## xenon (Sep 19, 2013)

I'll give it a few weeks. That's always annoyed me about iOS, not being able to roll back to previous version. iOS 5 has made my Ipod 3G frustratingly slow. Still gets used as a media thingy plugged into stereo.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

The default Calendar and Reminder is still no match for Cal and Any Do. Far too fiddly and lacking the simple ease of use of C and A...the default Weather doesn't come close to the excellent Yahoo weather either.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 19, 2013)

Only took 20 mins to download on the iPad this morning, hooray!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 19, 2013)

dogmatique said:


> They've certainly got some work to do on the usability of the UX - though it's a lot better than some of the earlier iterations - they've fattened some of the fonts and changed the backgrounds.  That said, I'm still quite surprised about how... unintuitive some of the simple actions are, now that they've taken away the defined swipes and stuff.  I'm sure the much maligned Scott Forstall is having an interesting day looking at the feedback... There was reason for font shadows, outlines and the like - Usability!


What do you mean about taking swipes away? As far as I can tell they're all still the same.

I quite like it, the folder backgrounds is slightly odd at first but seems very dependant on the wallpaper you have as they react to the colour behind the,. A few I tried look awful, but others look great.

Also, airdrop, yes. This will be a very useful thing for me.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 19, 2013)

Also, it's instantly made any app that hasn't updated to the new UI look horribly clunky and outdated.


----------



## aqua (Sep 19, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I don't actually like how it looks. Though I expect in a few months I'll have forgotten what it used to look like. But too many of the icons look crap and it just feels... cluttered, much more so than it used to with exactly the same number of icons and groups. I'll work out why it feels like that.


this, I fucking hate how it looks. did a 7 year old design it?


----------



## aqua (Sep 19, 2013)

In fact the calendar is now almost impossible for me to read properly because it's muted all the calendar colours and made everything really white

fucking genius apple, well done, for those of us with reading issues this is JUST what I didn't need 

e2a - the new evernote looks really fucking shit too  - jesus christ


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

Yeah you're right about Evernote, not happy with it at all.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Also, it's instantly made any app that hasn't updated to the new UI look horribly clunky and outdated.



Yeah it's really jarring isn't it?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2013)

Stop zooming about all over the shop, you cunt!


----------



## aqua (Sep 19, 2013)

AND why can't I pinch out of newstand anymore?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2013)

And while I'm at it, while folders are now multi paged, each page is smaller, and I organised my folders on the basis that everything in them would be visible when opened, not that I'd have to swipe again to get to them. If you see what I mean. Anyway, cunts.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 19, 2013)

pinkychukkles said:


> Gonna wait to see how it beds in with the early downloaders...
> I have 2+ yr old iphone 4, wonder how it will impact it's performance? Anyone else updating an iphone 4 to iOS7, lemme know.



Ars Technica have tested it http://arstechnica.com/apple/2013/09/new-lease-on-life-or-death-sentence-ios-7-on-the-iphone-4/

Short version: Only do it if you really must have one of the new features (and the iPhone 4 misses out on quite a few of them anyway)


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2013)

aqua said:


> In fact the calendar is now almost impossible for me to read properly because it's muted all the calendar colours and made everything really white
> 
> fucking genius apple, well done, for those of us with reading issues this is JUST what I didn't need
> 
> e2a - the new evernote looks really fucking shit too  - jesus christ


 
Have you tried going into Settings>General>Accessibility and toggling the "increase contrast" slider. I think it increases the contrast for people who have difficulty reading muted colours on the white background.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> And while I'm at it, while folders are now multi paged, each page is smaller, and I organised my folders on the basis that everything in them would be visible when opened, not that I'd have to swipe again to get to them. If you see what I mean. Anyway, cunts.


 
You could only fit so many icons on the screen at a time though.... lets say you've got fifty icons in a folder..... how would they possibly display all of those on just one screen without making it into a list, which people would then say is too fiddly to tap on properly


----------



## aqua (Sep 19, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Have you tried going into Settings>General>Accessibility and toggling the "increase contrast" slider. I think it increases the contrast for people who have difficulty reading muted colours on the white background.


Yep tried it and makes no real descernible difference. I normally love updates but this one is just fucking shit.

Can someone recommend me a new calendar app please because I genuinely can't use this one now


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2013)

sim667 said:


> You could only fit so many icons on the screen at a time though.... lets say you've got fifty icons in a folder..... how would they possibly display all of those on just one screen without making it into a list, which people would then say is too fiddly to tap on properly


You can fit more than 9 icons on a screen. Or at least you used to be able to. Now all my folders go onto two pages.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 19, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You can fit more than 9 icons on a screen. Or at least you used to be able to. Now all my folders go onto two pages.


Yeah, this is annoying.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 19, 2013)

aqua said:


> AND why can't I pinch out of newstand anymore?


I think this is a bug as every other app seems to work fine with that.


----------



## Winot (Sep 19, 2013)

aqua said:


> Yep tried it and makes no real descernible difference. I normally love updates but this one is just fucking shit.
> 
> Can someone recommend me a new calendar app please because I genuinely can't use this one now



UtiliTap Week Calendar. 

Is it my imagination or has one of the views disappeared from iCal? Anyway, agree it's even worse than before. 

I'll reserve judgement on the design for a few weeks. Like Control Centre. Don't like transitions - feel queasy.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 19, 2013)

All the transition animations have certainly slowed the feel of the phone down for me (iPhone 5). Gestures on the iPad 3 also feel sluggish and somewhat buggy. I still find having to physically double press a button to close apps/switch between them is very annoying, it needs a gesture of some sort. I never used it in the old versions of iOS and I'm not going to use it now, so much easier to just press the home button and launch the app you want again from the home screen. Unless I'm missing some sort of trick? The Palm Pre had it right with the whole gesture area below the touchscreen, pressing buttons is so much like hard work


----------



## elbows (Sep 19, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> All the transition animations have certainly slowed the feel of the phone down for me (iPhone 5). Gestures on the iPad 3 also feel sluggish and somewhat buggy. I still find having to physically double press a button to close apps/switch between them is very annoying, it needs a gesture of some sort. I never used it in the old versions of iOS and I'm not going to use it now, so much easier to just press the home button and launch the app you want again from the home screen. Unless I'm missing some sort of trick? The Palm Pre had it right with the whole gesture area below the touchscreen, pressing buttons is so much like hard work



You can, on the iPad at least. Go into settings and make sure you have 'Multitasking Gestures' switched on. It tells you what gestures are then available to close an app, switch between apps, bring up the task manager.


----------



## elbows (Sep 19, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The grey background for icon folders looks crap - it is borderless and also too light and obtrusive, in contrast to icons for apps which were designed with dark backgrounds in mind.



Is that on a device which doesn't support the translucent background/colours stuff? Because on my iPad it isn't grey, its based on whatever my wallpaper is set to. Granted this does not eliminate all of your criticisms, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.


----------



## aqua (Sep 19, 2013)

elbows said:


> Is that on a device which doesn't support the translucent background/colours stuff? Because on my iPad it isn't grey, its based on whatever my wallpaper is set to. Granted this does not eliminate all of your criticisms, but I thought I'd mention it anyway.


I have the retina display ipad and yes it coordinates it's shitty background to the wallpaper but it's still shit


----------



## elbows (Sep 19, 2013)

Personally I love the new look, with only a couple of exceptions.

Yes there is a too much white in places on the iPad, although turning down the brightness should be good for battery. I think they should have thought more about this aspect of the design though.

The most stupid colour combination I've seen so far is in the note app. email addresses, phone numbers etc put into a note are shown using that orangey yellow colour, which on a white background is absolutely stupid.


----------



## aqua (Sep 19, 2013)

elbows said:


> Personally I love the new look, with only a couple of exceptions.
> 
> Yes there is a too much white in places on the iPad, although turning down the brightness should be good for battery. I think they should have thought more about this aspect of the design though.
> 
> The most stupid colour combination I've seen so far is in the note app. email addresses, phone numbers etc are shown using that orangey yellow colour, which on a white background is absolutely stupid.


It's the colouring for me too mainly - too white, which for someone with dyslexia is just fucking dumb


----------



## Kanda (Sep 19, 2013)

Quite like it. Quicker than iOS 6.x on my iPhone 4S


----------



## elbows (Sep 19, 2013)

Not sure if everyone is aware of this feature so thought I would mention it:

Swipe right from the very left edge of the screen to go back, and left from the right edge of the screen to go forwards. Especially handy in Safari.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You can fit more than 9 icons on a screen. Or at least you used to be able to. Now all my folders go onto two pages.


 
Ive got folders with 30 apps in now though. Where as before I'd have to have folders with the same name, but call them "reference 1", "reference 2" etc.... Now i can just have one big reference folder.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2013)

aqua said:


> Yep tried it and makes no real descernible difference. I normally love updates but this one is just fucking shit.
> 
> Can someone recommend me a new calendar app please because I genuinely can't use this one now


 
What about inverting colours in accessibility?


----------



## xenon (Sep 19, 2013)

3 GB. FFS.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Ive got folders with 30 apps in now though. Where as before I'd have to have folders with the same name, but call them "reference 1", "reference 2" etc.... Now i can just have one big reference folder.


Oh, it's better to have multi-page folders rather than non-multi-page folders, certainly, but they could have done it while keeping the page size the same.

It's a small thing compared to the damn zooming though - I think that will be the bit that persistently annoys me.


----------



## Winot (Sep 19, 2013)

Ooh - I like the switch between pages on Safari.  And private browsing easily accessible for those - ahem - private needs.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh, it's better to have multi-page folders rather than non-multi-page folders, certainly, but they could have done it while keeping the page size the same.
> 
> It's a small thing compared to the damn zooming though - I think that will be the bit that persistently annoys me.


 
Oh I see.. Still think its pennicity (sp?) though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> All the transition animations have certainly slowed the feel of the phone down for me (iPhone 5). Gestures on the iPad 3 also feel sluggish and somewhat buggy. I still find having to physically double press a button to close apps/switch between them is very annoying, it needs a gesture of some sort. I never used it in the old versions of iOS and I'm not going to use it now, so much easier to just press the home button and launch the app you want again from the home screen. Unless I'm missing some sort of trick? The Palm Pre had it right with the whole gesture area below the touchscreen, pressing buttons is so much like hard work



I know what you mean but haven't been able to work out if it's actually slower or I'm just paying so much attention to everything because it's all new and slightly novel.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 19, 2013)

I am really liking this update, all the moaning on here had me a bit worried. 

This has made it far more usable and got rid of some real annoyances for me.  The wifi switch was one of them. 

Lots and lots of really great updates.  Like the rip off of the card system from Palm, though they didn't need to, I've thought of a better and faster system. 

The photo app is great. 

My only annoyance is the clock on the lock screen, I have a very light photo on my lock screen so a drop shadow or something to highlight it would have been nice.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 19, 2013)

Have you noticed the new Clock app icon shows the actual time?

I don't know why they didn't add a Location Services switch to the Control Centre, as it something that I switch on an off all the time, and doing through Settings is a right pita.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 19, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Have you noticed the new Clock app icon shows the actual time?
> 
> I don't know why they didn't add a Location Services switch to the Control Centre, as it something that I switch on an off all the time, and doing through Settings is a right pita.



Put it into feedback on the apple site.  I have got everything I have suggested, including the iPhone which I suggested they make in 2005.  If you don't tell them they won't know.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 19, 2013)

Surprised mobile data isn't in control centre either. Rather have that over Bluetooth/lock orientation.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 19, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> Surprised mobile data isn't in control centre either. Rather have that over Bluetooth/lock orientation.



Apart from when I land in another country (and return) I never need to touch that setting?    What are you doing you need an easily accessible switch for it.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 19, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Apart from when I land in another country (and return) I never need to touch that setting?    What are you doing you need an easily accessible switch for it.


Turning 3/4G on/off? Something I imagine most people do quite a few times a day.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 19, 2013)

Well, no. Can't remember the last time I turned 3G off (apart from when going to another country, as mentioned above). Why would you? Wifi, sure.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 19, 2013)

I don't see the point having it turned on if I'm not using it, so it remains off until needed.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 19, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> Turning 3/4G on/off? Something I imagine most people do quite a few times a day.


Most  people?  I don't.


Callum91 said:


> I don't see the point having it turned on if I'm not using it, so it remains off until needed.


What for?


----------



## Kanda (Sep 19, 2013)

I do like automatic updating of apps


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 19, 2013)

It's simple. I'm on wifi 99% of the time, therefore 3/4G remains off. When I go out, it goes on. I come back home, it goes off and wifi on. Everyone I've ever met has done this. You're all the freaks I tells ya!


----------



## Kanda (Sep 19, 2013)

It automatically switches to WiFi (known networks) if in range... you weirdo!


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 19, 2013)

Kanda said:


> It automatically switches to WiFi (known networks) if in range... you weirdo!


I know, I'm a manual sort of chap. Can't let the machines dictate everything.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 19, 2013)

You probably alone in doing that.  It would be a button with your name under it.

Biggest gripe is wall papers and the new font bold or not.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 19, 2013)

Sunray said:


> You probably alone in doing that.  It would be a button with your name under it.
> 
> Biggest gripe is wall papers and the new font bold or not.



Do you never answer your phone or something?


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 19, 2013)

Sunray said:


> You probably alone in doing that.  It would be a button with your name under it.
> 
> Biggest gripe is wall papers and the new font bold or not.


Can't you just change your wallpaper?  A busy wallpaper has never looked very good.


souljacker said:


> Do you never answer your phone or something?


I hardly ever even use my phone as a phone, so I've shifted the Phone icon from the dock completely and moved it elsewhere.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 19, 2013)

I've changed my wallpaper, a sort of blue colour with white speckles as it just didn't work well. Similarly I've changed my lock screen as the time/date wasn't clear. A bit of rejigging moved the lighter section of the image to the bottom 

And to be honest I think it all looks much better now. Wasn't sure at first, but after a couple of hours of using it I'm pretty much used to it. I like having CC at hand without interrupting the current app.

Doesn't seem any slower than iOS 6 on my iPhone 4.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 19, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> Soesn't seem any slower than iOS 6 on my iPhone 4.


Mine neither, nor on my iPad 2.

BTW on the more recently devices you can choose a "dynamic" wall paper, which is pretty cool.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 19, 2013)

And you get a sort of 3D effect with normal wallpapers, which I'm sure you've seen. Not on the iPhone 4 though.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 19, 2013)

Yeah, saw those on a mate's 5 running the beta. 
Can't say they're deal breakers 
My phone's getting on a bit so I might get a replacement at some point.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 19, 2013)

Got them on my iPad.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 19, 2013)

The URL bar at the top of Safari on the iPad is alittle too large for my liking. Unless it's optical trickery and it's the same size as it's always been?


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2013)

Sunray said:


> You probably alone in doing that.  It would be a button with your name under it.
> 
> Biggest gripe is wall papers and the new font bold or not.


That's not what I would call an attractive home screen.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 19, 2013)

Sunray said:


> You probably alone in doing that.  It would be a button with your name under it.
> 
> Biggest gripe is wall papers and the new font bold or not.


You do know you probably don't need all those "Games 1,2,3" etc. folders now, as folders can hold a lot more apps than they could before?


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2013)

There's an interesting commentary on the changes here:
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/blogs/2013/0...-ipad-2-life-on-the-edge-of-apples-lifecycle/


----------



## Sunray (Sep 19, 2013)

Only just installed it, still exploring.

It needs a proper tidy as I don't play many of them any more.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 19, 2013)

editor said:


> That's not what I would call an attractive home screen.



Its a picture I really like looks fine on the lock screen.  I have removed it from the wall paper and chosen one of the nice Apple ones.  Much better.


----------



## elbows (Sep 19, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You can fit more than 9 icons on a screen. Or at least you used to be able to. Now all my folders go onto two pages.



Well this does demonstrate one of the pitfalls of the new design philosophy - whenever there is a battle between some visual design they are wedded to, and some functionality, design now wins.

By this I mean that the reason folders only have 9 icons is because of the design of the icon that represents folders, and the way it zooms when you click on it. This wouldn't work if there were more than 9 icons per folder page.

Given that you also hate the zoom, this explanation is probably going to make you even more angry. It doesn't bother me because I hated the old folders so I didn't have a load of existing folders with 12 apps in when I updated. And I really like the zoom animations.  But I can see why others may be unhappy about this change.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

I don't know why we can't config what goes in the control centre....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

Kanda said:


> I do like automatic updating of apps



Oh yeah that is awesome! Nice to wake up and have a notification like some primitive Jarvis saying I've updated your apps for you.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

Ive talks about creating iOS7 (interesting throwaway comment that it started last November, Forstal was gone a little while before that):



> "So there was an incredible liberty in not having to reference the physical world so literally. We were trying to create an environment that was less specific. It got design out of the way."



Read the full interview here.


----------



## elbows (Sep 19, 2013)

Well that was a tedious, fawning interview. And I'm not sure why that comment is supposed to be interesting, since Forstals love of skeuomorphic design, his fall from power, and Ive taking over as head of human interface stuff was all well reported at the time and was obviously going to have a big impact on iOS 7.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

Starting wonder if the Apple execs have been rolled out due to rumours of bad sales of iPhone 5C given how friendly the coverage is:



> “There’s a segment of the market that really wants a product that does a lot for them, and I want to compete like crazy for those customers,” he says. “I’m not going to lose sleep over that other market, because it’s just not who we are. Fortunately, both of these markets are so big, and there’s so many people that care and want a great experience from their phone or their tablet, that Apple can have a really good business.”



Read the full article here.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 19, 2013)

Weren't you winging about Samsungs use of plastic on another thread recently?


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2013)

elbows said:


> Well that was a tedious, fawning interview. And I'm not sure why that comment is supposed to be interesting, since Forstals love of skeuomorphic design, his fall from power, and Ive taking over as head of human interface stuff was all well reported at the time and was obviously going to have a big impact on iOS 7.


Jeez. 





> He picks up his iPhone and slides the Notifications Center into place; it appears like information attached to a frosted shower door, where the world behind it is still visible.
> 
> "Look at that," says Ive. "The lovely thing about translucency is you're not sitting there going, 'Where have I just been taken?' because your world is still there."
> 
> Federighi nods. "You didn't just get walled off," he says. "It's about a different philosophy."


There is nothing fucking new about translucent screens. "Different philosophy," my arse.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 19, 2013)

Apple's plastic is different, it's 'unapologetic'.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Weren't you winging about Samsungs use of plastic on another thread recently?



Eh?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Apple's plastic is different, it's 'unapologetic'.



Haha!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

> *iOS7 and War Crimes*
> 
> *How’s that for a headline? *First off, this is not going to be a bashing of iOS7 where I childishly compare it to an actual world problem.
> 
> No, I’m going to group two seemingly unrelated topics and then join them together in the end as if by magic. So let’s dig in.



Best. Headline. EVAH!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

On the experience of using iOS7, something that's been really bothering me is the keyboard. For some reason it's so white, bright and spacious I keep fucking up while typing, it just isn't as simple to judge taps as it was before...either that or the almost garish feel of iOS7 is just too damn distracting.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 19, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> On the experience of using iOS7, something that's been really bothering me is the keyboard. For some reason it's so white, bright and spacious I keep fucking up while typing, it just isn't as simple to judge taps as it was before...either that or the almost garish feel of iOS7 is just too damn distracting.


I've found the opposite, love the new keyboard (still making about the same amount of mistakes as before, though) and finding it a pain in the arse going from the new keyboard in the updated apps and the old style keyboard in apps that have yet to update to iOS 7. Would still like the comma to be on the first keyboard, though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> I've found the opposite, love the new keyboard (still making about the same amount of mistakes as before, though) and finding it a pain in the arse going from the new keyboard in the updated apps and the old style keyboard in apps that have yet to update to iOS 7. Would still like the comma to be on the first keyboard, though.



Weird. I could almost touch type on the old one...this one is odd.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 19, 2013)

Curious thought.



> Imagine a museum: you stand in front of a painting and you get detailed information of each picture, right on your phone or a tablet you rent in the museum. Every painting could have its own beacon.


----------



## Winot (Sep 19, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> On the experience of using iOS7, something that's been really bothering me is the keyboard. For some reason it's so white, bright and spacious I keep fucking up while typing, it just isn't as simple to judge taps as it was before...either that or the almost garish feel of iOS7 is just too damn distracting.



Yes, I'm finding the same thing. Not sure if it's the change in colour... It almost feels like the keys are closer together - also getting the same feeling about icons on the home screen - presumably they are not, it's just a result of the change in design.


----------



## aqua (Sep 19, 2013)

sim667 said:


> What about inverting colours in accessibility?


Nah that won't work either because the. EVERYTHING gets inverted and that does my head in too


----------



## aqua (Sep 19, 2013)

Winot thanks for the cal suggestion, that's ace x


----------



## sim667 (Sep 19, 2013)

Is it not that the space bar is smaller? I noticed I kept hitting the full stop earlier.

But typing this in tapatalk it seems it's a different keyboard


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 19, 2013)

I've noticed that phone apps on the ipad are now full screen and they look slightly better than using the 2x option on older ios. 

Annoyingly the non-apple charging cable I have now pops up an alert saying it's incompatible, although it still seems to be working


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 19, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Eh?



Note 3 thread. 

Btw I agree.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Sep 19, 2013)

Hmm. I dont think I will update my phone (iphone 4) as I like my bdark background and get sore eyes when it is really bright. Is this update for the ipad too? I might update one my boy's ipod, see if i like it and then decide whether to change my ipad. I can't see any revolutionary feature though, not sure its worth the bother.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Note 3 thread.
> 
> Btw I agree.



No,I don't get how that relates to just saying that they're putting a comms plan into play to distract from possible bad sales.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2013)

Looks like the iOS controllers are coming:


----------



## Sunray (Sep 20, 2013)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Hmm. I dont think I will update my phone (iphone 4) as I like my bdark background and get sore eyes when it is really bright. Is this update for the ipad too? I might update one my boy's ipod, see if i like it and then decide whether to change my ipad. I can't see any revolutionary feature though, not sure its worth the bother.



Its great. So many features and touches that make the whole experience way better.  iOS6 had got lots of features but this takes those features and makes them work really well together.

Its a must have download.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2013)

Not on a 4, I reckon it'd be a sluggish at best.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 20, 2013)

neonwilderness said:


> I've noticed that phone apps on the ipad are now full screen and they look slightly better than using the 2x option on older ios.


The one phone app I've got on my ipad (mixcloud) is exactly the same as it used to be


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 20, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Best. Headline. EVAH!


This week also saw images of an iPad being utilised by Syrian rebels.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 20, 2013)

Need to fire rockets at your enemy? There's an app for that...


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 20, 2013)

He's probably just playing Angry Birds whilst his pal get's more mortar rounds.


----------



## mack (Sep 20, 2013)

The new phone is out today isn't it?

All the phone shops are open...but completely empty?


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 20, 2013)

mack said:


> The new phone is out today isn't it?
> 
> All the phone shops are open...but completely empty?


The Apple effect died along with Steve Jobs. Downhill from here...


----------



## mack (Sep 20, 2013)

Maybe some people updated their phones with the new os and don't need to upgrade.

I watched that (terrible) Jobs movie the other night..visionary guy and perfectionist.. Can see why Apple seem a bit lost these days.


----------



## white rabbit (Sep 20, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Need to fire rockets at your enemy? There's an app for that...


It's probably something to measure the angle. Like a spirit level.

E2a: like this


----------



## white rabbit (Sep 20, 2013)

iOS7 is rather pleasant. It's different enough that it's like getting a new device.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 20, 2013)

mack said:


> The new phone is out today isn't it?
> 
> All the phone shops are open...but completely empty?


Maybe they've restricted release to regular phone outlets in the hope of whipping-up a lacklustre queue at their stores.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2013)

OOooop Ive found the itunes store app to be a bit sketchy.

Downloaded a tune this morning, tried three times, and then it downloaded the wrong one.

So i ended up buying 2 alborosie tunes


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2013)

white rabbit said:


> iOS7 is rather pleasant. It's different enough that it's like getting a new device.



It certainly feels novel but not sure how deep that goes tbh.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 20, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Maybe they've restricted release to regular phone outlets in the hope of whipping-up a lacklustre queue at their stores.


This sounds like a more feasible explanation of the ''shortage'' to me.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2013)

Does anyone have a good link to a spreadsheet with all UK deals?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 20, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Not on a 4, I reckon it'd be a sluggish at best.



Nope.  I have a 4 and I think iOS7 is faster than iOS6.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Nope.  I have a 4 and I think iOS7 is faster than iOS6.



Really?? My 4S is running well but noticeably not as slick as on iOS 6.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes, I'm very happy with the upgrade indeed.

Perhaps iOS6 had got slow for some reason and this fixed it?


----------



## Winot (Sep 20, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Maybe they've restricted release to regular phone outlets in the hope of whipping-up a lacklustre queue at their stores.


 
Wandered past Regent St Apple store just now and they have a sign up saying they've sold out.


----------



## electroplated (Sep 20, 2013)

anyone experiencing choppy/slow animations should try turning up the contrast - made everything smoother for me, no idea why, just saw the tip elsewhere

Settings > General > Accessibility > Increase contrast > On


----------



## spacemonkey (Sep 20, 2013)

electroplated said:


> anyone experiencing choppy/slow animations should try turning up the contrast - made everything smoother for me, no idea why, just saw the tip elsewhere
> 
> Settings > General > Accessibility > Increase contrast > On



Reddit?


----------



## Me76 (Sep 20, 2013)

I've been meaning to do a reset on my iphone4 for a while cos of issues with the sound on videos and music without headphones. I'm not going to be able to do that now without updating iOS am I?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 20, 2013)

Yes. Its optional.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 20, 2013)

Just upgrade, it works fine on my 4.  And the Control Centre is handy.


----------



## Me76 (Sep 20, 2013)

Thanks guys. I've been meaning to do this for three months. So it's likely to be a while anyway


----------



## electroplated (Sep 20, 2013)

spacemonkey said:


> Reddit?


busted!


----------



## Sunray (Sep 20, 2013)

Me76 said:


> Thanks guys. I've been meaning to do this for three months. So it's likely to be a while anyway



With the iPhone, its actually quite difficult to wipe nowadays.  Even having a new phone, as soon as you enter your apple ID, you will have all your contacts and messages restored in an instant.

Plug into iTunes and it will do a restore and its like it was before you fully wiped it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2013)

electroplated said:


> anyone experiencing choppy/slow animations should try turning up the contrast - made everything smoother for me, no idea why, just saw the tip elsewhere
> 
> Settings > General > Accessibility > Increase contrast > On



Weird that actually slowed my 4S down! Turned it back off straight away...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 21, 2013)

Managed to find a spreadsheet of tarrifs and costs over time: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AtiUCEczA3ZWdHJLRGdpb3VMZ1VvNldhRnczZC14bHc&output=html

But it's incomplete, anyone got anything better?


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2013)

DPreview have posted up their first comparison photos showing off the 5s camera against others. 
 

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/2170241431/iphone-5s-studio-comparison


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 22, 2013)

Just shows how little there is in between modern phone cams in studio settings (though the Xperia seems noticeably worse).

The two points that make most difference these days IMO are

(a) dynamic range - phones are mostly pretty awful and anything bright is clipped;
(b) high ISO performance, probably the most useful thing for a phone and an area where they tend to do badly with their tiny sensors.


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2013)

If I had to have one phone just for use as a camera, I'd take the Lumia, then the Xperia.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 22, 2013)

editor said:


> If I had to have one phone just for use as a camera, I'd take the Lumia, then the Xperia.


The Lumia looks nice but the Xperia comes out horrible in that test!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 22, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Just shows how little there is in between modern phone cams in studio settings (though the Xperia seems noticeably worse).
> 
> The two points that make most difference these days IMO are
> 
> ...



Funny how some we're touting the Xperia has an amazing camera too. Just goes to show really...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 22, 2013)

Talking about cameras one thing I must say I really like about iOS 7 is the live filter view when taking a photo. Very handy and some of the filters are actually very nice (really like Tonal for the vintage 1960s black n white look)!


----------



## editor (Sep 22, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The Lumia looks nice but the Xperia comes out horrible in that test!


I wouldn't judge its capabilities on that one limited test. It's got one of the very best cameras on any mobile.
http://thenextweb.com/gadgets/2013/...est-camera-phone-but-not-the-best-smartphone/


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2013)

Germany's Chaos Computer Club have managed to hack the fingerprint sensor, but I don't think the average user should be worried!

The author comes out strongly against fingerprint security though: 


> "This demonstrates – again – that fingerprint biometrics is unsuitable as access control method and should be avoided," said the Chaos Club's blogpost author, "Starbug". "In reality, Apple's sensor has just a higher resolution compared to the sensors so far. So we only needed to ramp up the resolution of our fake. As we have said now for more than years, fingerprints should not be used to secure anything. You leave them everywhere, and it is far too easy to make fake fingers out of lifted prints."


http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/sep/22/apple-iphone-fingerprint-scanner-hacked


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2013)

Curious that Apple announces 9 million units sold in just three days but doesn't give a breakdown.

The news about iOS 7 take up is incredible though. Never has there been such rapid and widespread updating of an OS...apparently produced a 116% rise in internet traffic too.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 23, 2013)

Apple don't ever break down their iPhones sales, as far as know.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 23, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> Apple don't ever break down their iPhones sales, as far as know.



They did in the past, they'd talk about how many of the latest iPhone has sold not how many had sold overall. It wouldn't surprise me if iPhone 5S has sold significantly less than expected...


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 23, 2013)

Plus you were allowed to pre-order the 5c. Wasn't there a US guy who queued for days for a gold 5s only to be told they didn't have any in stock.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 23, 2013)

Well I doubt they sold that many 4s' over the weekend so the vast majority would be 'the new iPhone'.
Guesses I've seen put the 5s at over 3 times the demand for 5c, which would put sales of the 5s at about 6m in the first few days. But it's all guesses so ultimately pointless.

Apple have told the stock market that earnings are expected to be at the upper end of their previous forecast range, so they won't be losing any sleep about lost "market share" or guesses of lower demand.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 24, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> Apple don't ever break down their iPhones sales, as far as know.


 
They've been unable to do maths since jobbs died


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2013)

Oh dear!









> It seems that a spoof advert promoting new waterproofing features in iOS 7 has resulted in some gullible iPhone owners testing their devices, and coming to a sticky end.
> 
> The advert looks to have originated form the 4Chan bulletin board, along with a Apple-style advert that promotes the new waterproofing feature, reading "Update to iOS 7 and become waterproof."
> 
> ...


----------



## sim667 (Sep 24, 2013)

Thats brilliant.

The levels of debate over the smallest things in ios 7 on the macrumors forum is actually nauseating too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2013)

sim667 said:


> They've been unable to do maths since jobbs died



Yeah more evidence of them being doomed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2013)

Good video of iOS7 running on iPhone 4S. Must say mine isn't quite as slick as this but's pretty close:


----------



## Sunray (Sep 24, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Curious that Apple announces 9 million units sold in just three days but doesn't give a breakdown.
> 
> The news about iOS 7 take up is incredible though. Never has there been such rapid and widespread updating of an OS...apparently produced a 116% rise in internet traffic too.



More in three days than Blackberry did in the last three months. How the mighty fall.  

Today Apple was blamed for Blackberry's demise.

Love that sentence.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2013)

Sunray said:


> More in three days than Blackberry did in the last three months. How the mighty fall.
> 
> Today Apple was blamed for Blackberry's demise.
> 
> Love that sentence.



Well it's partly true, Apple basically kicked off the smartphone market as it is today which killed off those companies who were successful in the earlier smartphone era (Palm, Microsoft and Blackberry)...


----------



## Sunray (Sep 24, 2013)

Given an apple's size, it wasn't much of a competition unless blackberries ganged up on them en-mass.

Then it would be a blackberry crush. Ohh Mmmmm.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 24, 2013)

blackberry crumble @ apple squash(ed)


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2013)

It wasn't Apple that killed Palm. Palm did that all on their own.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 24, 2013)

The death of Palm hurts me more than the death of Blackberry does. God I loved Palm devices.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> The death of Palm hurts me more than the death of Blackberry does. God I loved Palm devices.



They couldn't compete in the new era that Apple kick started and didn't help themselves by making some stupid mistakes (Foleo being a waste of time and money).


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 24, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They couldn't compete in the new era that Apple kick started and didn't help themselves by making some stupid mistakes (Foleo being a waste of time and money).


And the Pre, although fantastic, was an utter marketing disaster. That finished them.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 24, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> And the Pre, although fantastic, was an utter marketing disaster. That finished them.


It wasn't just marketing though, the build quality wasn't up to the standards of their competitors from what I've read.
Lots of returns, which in turn got them a bad reputation with retailers who then weren't keen to sell.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> And the Pre, although fantastic, was an utter marketing disaster. That finished them.



Yup, the Pre is the reason I have an iPhone. They dicked about so much with the launch that I couldn't wait (my Palm Centro had effectively died and I needed a solid reliable smartphone for work, Android had terrible hardware at the time and not much in the way of apps) and got the iPhone 3GS...ended up being a great decision given what happened to Palm next.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 24, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> It wasn't just marketing though, the build quality wasn't up to the standards of their competitors from what I've read.
> Lots of returns, which in turn got them a bad reputation with retailers who then weren't keen to sell.



It was cheap and plasticky but felt in ergonomics terms very very nice in the hand. The OS was superb and I've yet to see anyone pull off the Synergy feature as well as they did...


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 25, 2013)

Samsung decide to do a gold Galaxy S4


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2013)

They announced another gold phone back in August.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 25, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Samsung decide to do a gold Galaxy S4


Probably cheaper than the previous version which was the same price as the gold iPhone 5, and entirely for those with more money than taste.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Samsung decide to do a gold Galaxy S4



Remarkable innovation.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 25, 2013)

I like the way panoramic photo's work as lock screen and home screen photo's now...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2013)

Kanda said:


> I like the way panoramic photo's work as lock screen and home screen photo's now...




Neat little trick but iPhone 5 onward only by the look of it..


----------



## Kanda (Sep 25, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Neat little trick but iPhone 5 onward only by the look of it..



Well yeah, iPhone's prior to 5 couldn't take panoramic.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Sep 25, 2013)

Didn't work on my g/f's iphone5 - is it a 5s feature only or has anyone got it working on their 5?

Upgraded to iOS7 on my IP4 and doesn't seem too bad, a bit laggy (rendering web pages for example) but much the same as before from what I can discern; prefer the look of the new iOS to iOS6.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2013)

Kanda said:


> Well yeah, iPhone's prior to 5 couldn't take panoramic.



My iPhone 4S can but won't do the panoramic wallpaper thing...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2013)

pinkychukkles said:


> Didn't work on my g/f's iphone5 - is it a 5s feature only or has anyone got it working on their 5?
> 
> Upgraded to iOS7 on my IP4 and doesn't seem too bad, a bit laggy (rendering web pages for example) but much the same as before from what I can discern; prefer the look of the new iOS to iOS6.



No idea...yeah it's running ok on my iPhone 4S so far. Not has any issue with Safari but Spotlight is a little jittery upon first open.

Got quite used to it now and it doesn't feel quite as bright but there's some very nice touches ad intuitive things I like about it.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2013)

Looks like those gimmicky zoom animations aren't working out for some users. And they can't be turned off 


> Apple's new design style in iOS 7 has had plenty of detractors, but some may have genuine cause for complaint: the zooming and parallax animations across the new operating system have been giving some users bad cases of motion sickness. "The zoom animations ... are literally making me nauseous and giving me a headache," Apple forum user Ensorceled writes. "It's exactly how I used to get car sick if I tried to read in the car." Other forum users are reporting feelings of illness, eye pain, and dizziness as well.
> http://www.theverge.com/2013/9/25/4...ons-causing-reports-of-severe-motion-sickness



https://discussions.apple.com/thread/5322295?start=0&tstart=0


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 25, 2013)

Some people need to get out more if they're staring at their screens that much...


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2013)

Of course! It's the customers fault!


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The Lumia looks nice but the Xperia comes out horrible in that test!


Here's how good the Lumia can be: 






http://www.digitaltrends.com/photography/national-geographic-photographer-stephen-alvarez-qa/


----------



## sim667 (Sep 26, 2013)

editor said:


> Of course! It's the customers fault!


 
You do have to questions how long people are staring at their screens to get motion sickness


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2013)

sim667 said:


> You do have to questions how long people are staring at their screens to get motion sickness


Or question why Apple would introduce such a pointlessly gimmicky feature and not let users turn it off.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 26, 2013)

editor said:


> Or question why Apple would introduce such a pointlessly gimmicky feature and not let users turn it off.


 
A kid spends all day eating haribo and then chucks up.

Haribo should make it so their sweets are less sickly.

That's logic.

I'm sure they'll enable turning it off in an update, but please do remember that stories like this tend to ignore things like "has the user been staring at the screen for 9 hours solidly, in a binge of iOS 7 euphoria".

Edit: Its not even a story, its a discussion thread. I very rarely trust what people say on the apple discussion forums.... Only the rated contributors.

I've also never been travel/seasick in my life, so the idea of being made ill by a phone animation just blows my mind.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 26, 2013)

Doesn't ''reduce motion'' under the accessibility settings turn it off?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 26, 2013)

Callum91 said:


> Doesn't ''reduce motion'' under the accessibility settings turn it off?


 Apparently not.


----------



## Callum91 (Sep 26, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Apparently not.


Curious. Unless I violently move my phone around I can barely tell there's any movement anyway. Some people must have literally been sat there for hours shaking and staring at the phone screen, nutters.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 26, 2013)

The "Reduce Motion" turns the parallax animation off.

I fail to see how these features could cause motion sickness, unless one is staring at the screen and moving the screen about and opening and closing apps/folders every few seconds for ages.


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> The "Reduce Motion" turns the parallax animation off.
> I fail to see how these features could cause motion sickness, unless one is staring at the screen and moving the screen about and opening and closing apps/folders every few seconds for ages.


This explanation from the 9 page thread on Apple's forums might help:





> Of course this is a real issue, and I'm not at all surprised it exists, given how psychedelic things look even in some of Apple's press photos. Visually induced motion sickness (VIMS) and visual stress (http://www.lucid-research.com/visualstress.htm) have become very active fields of research because of the implications in applications ranging from (FPS) video games to jet and airline pilot training through alleviating reading problems in dyslexics and enjoying contemporary art. And it happens to be one of my fields of research.
> 
> What IS surprising is that Apple neither foresaw it nor identified the issue from beta tester feedback (or worse, failed to take that seriously). I can understand an industrial designer like Ive more used to working on physical objects could be unaware of the effects visual displays can have on people, especially if they move, but surely he must have had computer graphics experts in his team...
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 26, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> The "Reduce Motion" turns the parallax animation off.
> 
> I fail to see how these features could cause motion sickness, unless one is staring at the screen and moving the screen about and opening and closing apps/folders every few seconds for ages.



Yup. Sounds like the usual media attempt to whip up a non story...


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2013)

Except the story appears to have been "whipped up" on Apple's own site by its own customers.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 26, 2013)

Motion sickness is a real thing, and people do get it from playing computer games, so there's no reason to think they wouldn't get it from this too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 26, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Motion sickness is a real thing, and people do get it from playing computer games, so there's no reason to think they wouldn't get it from this too.



I can't find it at the mo but there was a great article a few years back which pointed out that it's bollox that you can get it from playing video games. It's just another version of receptiongate, the media love a good tech scare/controversy story and after the finger print hack didn't appear to cause two weeks of front page news they're moving on to this.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 26, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Motion sickness is a real thing, and people do get it from playing computer games, so there's no reason to think they wouldn't get it from this too.


But that's sitting in front a computer screen with moving images for hours, this is an animation that only happens when you click on an icon and only lasts for about a second.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 26, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I can't find it at the mo but there was a great article a few years back which pointed out that it's bollox that you can get it from playing video games. It's just another version of receptiongate, the media love a good tech scare/controversy story and after the finger print hack didn't appear to cause two weeks of front page news they're moving on to this.


It's not bollocks. I've met people who get it. The concept is very simple - your sense of motion is an integration of vision and inner-ear balance. When the two don't agree, it can cause an unpleasant sensation. Some people are particularly sensitive.


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> But that's sitting in front a computer screen with moving images for hours, this is an animation that only happens when you click on an icon and only lasts for about a second.


Do you think all the people posting up on Apple's site are making it up then?


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 26, 2013)

It's obvious people are using the wrong sort of looking, just like antennagate disciples  must learn to adapt if they wanna be on the bleeding-edge of technology.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 27, 2013)

Just threatened to leave TMobile.

Got offered a free 5s 16gig on 4G, with 20 gig of data/month and unlimited calls and txts, plus tethering, all for the same as I was currently paying.

Go on then


----------



## Crispy (Sep 27, 2013)

Fuck me!


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just threatened to leave TMobile.
> 
> Got offered a free 5s 16gig on 4G, with 20 gig of data/month and unlimited calls and txts, plus tethering, all for the same as I was currently paying.
> 
> Go on then


What are you currently paying and how long is the new contract for?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 27, 2013)

editor said:


> What are you currently paying and how long is the new contract for?


2 year contract and I'll be paying £32.50/month. I think the deal I'm getting is usually something like £50/month.

The 2 year bit is annoying but, fuckit, having the fast 4G plus tethering will save me literally hundreds of pounds a year in hotel wifi access fees.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 27, 2013)

Careful with that 16GB, mind. It's not a lot these days.


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 27, 2013)

There's another update to iOS out: 7.0.2


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 27, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Careful with that 16GB, mind. It's not a lot these days.


Nah, it'll be fine. I won't have any music on there or any games.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 27, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just threatened to leave TMobile.
> 
> Got offered a free 5s 16gig on 4G, with 20 gig of data/month and unlimited calls and txts, plus tethering, all for the same as I was currently paying.
> 
> Go on then


That's such a good deal it makes me wanna put you on ignore.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 27, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> That's such a good deal it makes me wanna put you on ignore.


I think's it's because I've been with them for something like 8 years and have always been on a reasonably high tariff due to work demands. I've also done the sound at a few of their staff training conferences, so know how paranoid they are about losing long term customers and thus what to say. Threaten to leave, if you don't get a good deal offered at that point ask to speak to a senior member of the customer retention team, et voila


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 27, 2013)

I was also imagining you got through to a sales person who thought "This guy wants to leave, we'll soon see about that"


----------



## spacemonkey (Sep 27, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I think's it's because I've been with them for something like 8 years and have always been on a reasonably high tariff due to work demands. I've also done the sound at a few of their staff training conferences, so know how paranoid they are about losing long term customers and thus what to say. Threaten to leave, if you don't get a good deal offered at that point ask to speak to a senior member of the customer retention team, et voila



I tried that exact thing with 02 after being with them for 13 years. They couldn't beat my offer from 3 and didn't even try. So long!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 27, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just threatened to leave TMobile.
> 
> Got offered a free 5s 16gig on 4G, with 20 gig of data/month and unlimited calls and txts, plus tethering, all for the same as I was currently paying.
> 
> Go on then



Bloody hell! I didn't think networks actually fell for that shit these days..!!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 27, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Careful with that 16GB, mind. It's not a lot these days.



Very true, there's no point me getting anything less than 64gb given my needs...


----------



## Bungle73 (Sep 27, 2013)

And no one seems to have noticed this, for the people who were moaning about it before, one can now put the Newsstand icon into a folder.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 27, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Very true, there's no point me getting anything less than 64gb given my needs...


Cloud and streaming all the way for me


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 27, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> And no one seems to have noticed this, for the people who were moaning about it before, one can now put the Newsstand icon into a folder.



Ah yeah clocked that, very nice.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 27, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Cloud and streaming all the way for me



Cloud still requires local storage, streaming is reliant on good reception. I take A LOT of photos too and play games which take up gigs upon gigs...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 27, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Cloud still requires local storage, streaming is reliant on good reception. I take A LOT of photos too and play games which take up gigs upon gigs...


Dropbox on a mobile device doesn't pull everything down, just what you ask for.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 27, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Dropbox on a mobile device doesn't pull everything down, just what you ask for.



Oh right you mean using Cloud as storage rather than device agnostic syncing...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 27, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh right you mean using Cloud as storage rather than device agnostic syncing...


Yeah, everything I need for work, manuals, documents, cad plans, show files etc. goes into Dropbox. Then I can just grab them as and when I need them on any device I own. Music wise I stream everything now and I games aren't really my thing. 

So, local storage requirements aren't that much, 16 gig will be more than enough


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 1, 2013)

Bah, a good deal it may have been, what they didn't say was that the "in stock" bit was actually a complete lie 

Might have to wait up to 30 days to get it


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Bah, a good deal it may have been, what they didn't say was that the "in stock" bit was actually a complete lie
> 
> Might have to wait up to 30 days to get it



Yup Three did exactly the same thing to me, sold me an in stock iPhone then emailed a day later saying er sorry but we don't have your phone and don't know when we will.


----------



## Winot (Oct 2, 2013)

Anyone else have problems with iMessage hanging? If this happened in iOS6 the message automatically (and quickly) reverted to a text message. Now it just seems to keep trying until you click on it and tell it to send as text. Very irritating.

ETA - looks like a common problem
http://www.macrumors.com/2013/09/30...tings-may-fix-imessages-not-working-in-ios-7/


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 2, 2013)

Winot said:


> Anyone else have problems with iMessage hanging? If this happened in iOS6 the message automatically (and quickly) reverted to a text message. Now it just seems to keep trying until you click on it and tell it to send as text. Very irritating.


Check under Settings > Messages > Send as SMS as that setting seemed to have reverted to Off when I looked.


----------



## Winot (Oct 2, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> Check under Settings > Messages > Send as SMS as that setting seemed to have reverted to Off when I looked.



You are right, it did!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 2, 2013)

It would appear there's a more general issue for some people with Messages on iOS 7 so it might be worth keeping an eye on it.
http://appleinsider.com/articles/13...sing-imessage-issues-says-fix-is-in-the-works


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> It would appear there's a more general issue for some people with Messages on iOS 7 so it might be worth keeping an eye on it.
> http://appleinsider.com/articles/13...sing-imessage-issues-says-fix-is-in-the-works



Yeah iMessage has been a clusterfuck.

I sorted mine out by turning iMessages and FaceTime off, removing the email address from the receive option, restarted the phone and then turned FaceTime and iMessages back on


----------



## Sunray (Oct 3, 2013)

Yeah, its been giving me problems, clearly a bug.  Just switch it totally off till they fix it.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 3, 2013)

I just noticed they have added a blocking function to the phone.  That was a long time coming.


----------



## trashpony (Oct 3, 2013)

I've not upgraded to ios 7 because I've heard Bad Things. 

Should I do it?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 3, 2013)

trashpony said:


> I've not upgraded to ios 7 because I've heard Bad Things.
> 
> Should I do it?


Yes, it's great.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2013)

trashpony said:


> I've not upgraded to ios 7 because I've heard Bad Things.
> 
> Should I do it?



Bad things? Other the iMessage issue this week it's been fine ime.


----------



## trashpony (Oct 3, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Bad things? Other the iMessage issue this week it's been fine ime.


I've just read loads of 'it doesn't work right/I don't like the way it looks/feels/works' stuff. I haven't done the last update either


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 3, 2013)

trashpony said:


> I've not upgraded to ios 7 because I've heard Bad Things.
> Should I do it?
> ... I haven't done the last update either


updating isn't compulsory and if you're happy with what you have then that's fine.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2013)

trashpony said:


> I've just read loads of 'it doesn't work right/I don't like the way it looks/feels/works' stuff. I haven't done the last update either



Ah I thought you meant real problems like glitches and bugs!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 3, 2013)

Apple apparently have bought Cue, a personal assistant app:



> _With Cue, you can spend more time enjoying your life and less time shuffling through your accounts and apps for the things you need. Cue intelligently ties together and surfaces useful information at the right time across all your accounts. From email, contacts and calendars to Facebook posts, Dropbox files and LinkedIn — Cue makes it easy to contact the people you care about, get to where you are going, and to know what’s next._



Sounds like Apple is looking to take Palm's synergy idea to the next level.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 3, 2013)

trashpony said:


> I've just read loads of 'it doesn't work right/I don't like the way it looks/feels/works' stuff. I haven't done the last update either



People write bad shit on the internet about breathing.  
The rest of the planet breaths just fine and doesn't feel the need to post how great it is.

Do you believe what you read on the internet?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2013)

Sunray said:


> People write bad shit on the internet about breathing.
> The rest of the planet breaths just fine and doesn't feel the need to post how great it is.
> 
> Do you believe what you read on the internet?



This is literally the best post I've read on urban75 in the last month.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2013)

My imessage issue came back. But turning imessage and facetime off then resetting the network settings seems to have resolved it, then factime and imessage back on seems to have resolved it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 4, 2013)

Yeah that worked for me too.


----------



## Winot (Oct 5, 2013)

Didn't work for me.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 8, 2013)

Winot said:


> Didn't work for me.


 
Did you restore the network settings?

What provider are you on?


----------



## Winot (Oct 8, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Did you restore the network settings?
> 
> What provider are you on?



Yes. On Vodafone. Didn't switch off FaceTime though, only iMessage. Will try doing both.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 8, 2013)

Winot said:


> Yes. On Vodafone. Didn't switch off FaceTime though, only iMessage. Will try doing both.


 
Maybe a vodafone network problem also
Im on three.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2013)

The 5S is like the 5 in how shockingly light it is compared to the 4S!


----------



## sim667 (Oct 9, 2013)

I did like the weightiness of the 4 though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2013)

Yeah kinda got used to it too....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 11, 2013)

Have to say buying stuff with the finger print scanner is fucking awesome!


----------



## Sunray (Oct 14, 2013)

iOS7 has lots of features that drain the battery.  

Its been dying well early recently but I've switched a lot of the bad boys off.  Will see how it goes.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 14, 2013)

I've got loads on and it still has nearly 20% at the end of the work day...


----------



## spacemonkey (Oct 14, 2013)

Just started using facetime audio recently, why hasn't this been hyped as a big feature? I've been using it to call family in Canada and the quality is incredible. HD audio, absolutely no interruptions on 3g. 

Think I'll use it when calling anyone with an iPhone from now on.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

I was thinking that too, it's actually very good as a feature.

Anyway...this is clever:


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 15, 2013)

spacemonkey said:


> Just started using facetime audio recently, why hasn't this been hyped as a big feature? I've been using it to call family in Canada and the quality is incredible. HD audio, absolutely no interruptions on 3g.



Not used facetime, but I've found 3g is to flakey in most places to guarantee decent call quality using VOIP. You don't notice if the odd web page takes another 1/2 second to load, but you do on a voice call.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 15, 2013)

OK my phone has now got 83% left and I charged it yesterday afternoon.  

This is a lot better to the totally flat that I was getting.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Not used facetime, but I've found 3g is to flakey in most places to guarantee decent call quality using VOIP. You don't notice if the odd web page takes another 1/2 second to load, but you do on a voice call.



I use FT regularly and it works fine, I also use Skype which works well but FT is just built in so it's more convenient. Not really noticed any difference in call audio quality between the two over 3G tbh...


----------



## Crispy (Oct 15, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I was thinking that too, it's actually very good as a feature.
> 
> Anyway...this is clever


Very cute , but only a true moron can lose a game of connect four on a 5x5 grid. Every game will be a draw.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Very cute , but only a true moron can lose a game of connect four on a 5x5 grid. Every game will be a draw.



Hehe innit just thought it was an interesting take on hardware/software. Reminded me of the Evernote peek app that came out just after the smart cover in terms of cleverness.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2013)

This article suggests that the new iPhones aren't proving such a big hit as previous models/



> Apple's Latest iPhones Could Be the Most Disappointing in the Company's History
> 
> After Apple debuted its two new iPhones last month (the 5s and 5c) shares sold off. Evidently, investors didn't have much faith in Apple's new devices -- and now it's looking increasingly likely that they're right.
> 
> ...


Anyone suffered this?


> Apple may have destroyed its biggest selling point
> But more than iPhone 5c sales, reports of an unstable iPhone 5s could be greater cause for concern. Many consumers may purchase Apple's iPhone over a competing Samsung because of its unparalleled system stability -- well, maybe not for much longer.
> 
> There are reports that Apple's iPhone 5s is prone to the so-called "blue screen of death" -- the dreaded system crash that plagued Windows users for years. Analytics firm Crittercism claims that, according to its data, apps running on the iPhone 5s crash twice as often compared to earlier models.
> ...



http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/10/13/apples-latest-iphones-could-be-the-most-disappoint/


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2013)

Looks like stability really has become an issue which is unusual given Apple's usual rock-solid performance: Apps on iPhone 5s Crashing at Twice the Rate as on Other iPhone 5 Models


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 15, 2013)

New OS, new 64 bit processor. Developers will update, problem will go away. Blog writers will scrabble around for something else to fill their pages with "OMG Apple has lost it and is totally doomed" type stories. Apple will continue to sell millions of phones at a premium price to willing consumers and be the richest company on the planet.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 15, 2013)

i'm trying to decide between 5s and 5c...I love the idea of a faster processor but...


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> New OS, new 64 bit processor. Developers will update, problem will go away. Blog writers will scrabble around for something else to fill their pages with "OMG Apple has lost it and is totally doomed" type stories. Apple will continue to sell millions of phones at a premium price to willing consumers and be the richest company on the planet.


I don't think anyone is saying that they're doomed, but you can't deny there have been some very _un-Apple _like developments of late.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 15, 2013)

The 5s has sold more in the last 4 weeks than the 5 did in its first two months. I don't think it's "the Most Disappointing in the Company's History"

As for the bluescreen, let's see how that gets addressed. If it's fixable in software, then it will be a blip and soon forgotten. If it's a hardware issue, then it's more serious.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 15, 2013)

I do not do gaming but I love the idea of everything being faster on the 5s than the 5c....and tomtom etc using the new processor and gyrowhizzery eventually??

There is also a tiny issue of my old "Oxford English Dictionary with audio" app which was orphaned and unsupported about three years ago...it works fine in ios7...is that the sort of thing that might get broken by 64 bittiness?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 15, 2013)

A shiny pound says it's software. Developers get access to the OS before it's released but not the hardware. Give it a month or so for them all to update and the problem will have gone.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 15, 2013)

Crispy said:


> The 5s has sold more in the last 4 weeks than the 5 did in its first two months.


I'm still fucking waiting for mine


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2013)

Crispy said:


> The 5s has sold more in the last 4 weeks than the 5 did in its first two months. I don't think it's "the Most Disappointing in the Company's History"


Wasn't that was referring to the 5c sales which are reportedly 'dismal'?

I'm not surprised if its true, considering the stupid price.


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 15, 2013)

A software update will soon sort the 'blue screen' app switching glitch.

My only other thought on the issue is were they being ironic with choice of blue.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 15, 2013)

editor said:


> Wasn't that was referring to the 5c sales which are reportedly 'dismal'?
> 
> I'm not surprised if its true, considering the stupid price.



No, just the 5s, compared to the 5

http://www.statisticbrain.com/iphone-5-sales-statistics/

Total number of iPhone 5s units sold	6,500,000
Number of iPhone 5 units sold in the first two months	5,150,000

The 5s went on sale on 20/09/13

You're right about the 5c, which is doing much less well

Total number of iPhone 5c units sold	2,600,000


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 15, 2013)

Yeah, I don't quite get the point of the 5c, considering that they still sell the 4s. If they'd ditched that and had the 5c as the cheaper/entry phone it would have made more sense.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> New OS, new 64 bit processor. Developers will update, problem will go away. Blog writers will scrabble around for something else to fill their pages with "OMG Apple has lost it and is totally doomed" type stories. Apple will continue to sell millions of phones at a premium price to willing consumers and be the richest company on the planet.



Crash rate from 1 to 2 % from what I last read. Anything under 5% is considered within industry standards of acceptable failure...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

Piers Gibbon said:


> i'm trying to decide between 5s and 5c...I love the idea of a faster processor but...



Get the 5S, it's not worth buying last years phone if you can afford this years.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 15, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Crash rate from 1 to 2 % from what I last read. Anything under 5% is considered within industry standards of acceptable failure...


5% would be far too much for an Apple product though. One of the reasons people are prepared to pay the premium is for the "it just works" factor.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> 5% would be far too much for an Apple product though. One of the reasons people are prepared to pay the premium is for the "it just works" factor.



Think that's a very fair point, just figure a little perspective on these things are helpful.


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2013)

editor said:


> I don't think anyone is saying that they're doomed, but you can't deny there have been some very _un-Apple _like developments of late.



I certainly can deny that. Because I do not recognise an image of Apple where there was some magic period where they never made mistakes, had stability issues or sold product for the wrong price.

I will be trying to monitor the app crashing issues but it won't be easy, relying on 3rd party metrics that may not give me all the detail I need. Both in terms of judging the reality and how it may affect user happiness, I will need to know whether the additional crashes are being caused by a handful of widely used apps, or a broader range of apps. And whether its affecting specific hardware (i.e. 5S) or iOS 7 devices in general. Also whether its mostly down to apps that haven't received any updates to take account of iOS 7 yet.

If its a certain set of apps that are causing the issues then users may be inclined to blame those apps rather than Apple, and much will come down to how quickly those apps are updated to fix issues. Or whether the issues can be fixed at that level as opposed to it being a cockup on the OS level that Apple will need to fix. Worst case for Apple would be if there is a hardware issue they can't work around quickly, but I don't think I've seen anything that pointed in that directions specifically yet.

I haven't spent much time delving into the detail yet so its possible some of the above questions have already been answered, anyone know?

As for sales, as others have pointed out the 5S sold real well and its stupid to spin that into anything but a success. Not so for the 5C which hit no sweet spot for price, even in Apples universe of pricing.


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2013)

elbows said:


> I certainly can deny that. Because I do not recognise an image of Apple where there was some magic period where they never made mistakes, had stability issues or sold product for the wrong price.


Come on: Apple maps was one of the worst pieces of software they've ever released and made them a laughing stock.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

elbows said:


> I certainly can deny that. Because I do not recognise an image of Apple where there was some magic period where they never made mistakes, had stability issues or sold product for the wrong price.
> 
> I will be trying to monitor the app crashing issues but it won't be easy, relying on 3rd party metrics that may not give me all the detail I need. Both in terms of judging the reality and how it may affect user happiness, I will need to know whether the additional crashes are being caused by a handful of widely used apps, or a broader range of apps. And whether its affecting specific hardware (i.e. 5S) or iOS 7 devices in general. Also whether its mostly down to apps that haven't received any updates to take account of iOS 7 yet.
> 
> ...



You don't recognize it because it's a lie, a mythology. Apple have always made products which haven't been amazing and occasionally crap under jobs and under others. 

It's just that they've been extremely successful with a very small number of products that people forget (and conveniently for those with an unhealthy dislike of Apple) that fact.


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2013)

editor said:


> Come on: Apple maps was one of the worst pieces of software they've ever released and made them a laughing stock.



That doesn't mean the idea that they have somehow become un-apple like of late has plenty of merit. If by 'of late' you mean since Jobs died, I can provide a number of examples of shit they did when he was alive.

MobileMe was pants. Siri was something Jobs nurtured but it came nowhere close to living up to the hype. Final Cut Pro X went down rather badly with pro's.

And in terms of high-profile iPhone device issues, who can forget the reception/antenna issues that plagued the original iPhone 4 and caused Jobs to have to offer free bumper cases to users? Surely that design mistake had as much or more potential to cause reputation damage to the iPhone than some increases in crashing?

In my opinion the test of whether the loss of Jobs will badly harm Apple is yet to come. Its when we move on from incremental improvements of the current crop of devices and towards whole new types of devices. Wearable computing may be an early indicator, or it may take longer, but still too early to tell in my opinion.

What certainly does not give us a proper clue is stuff like market share or whether mature platforms & form factors lack 'innovation'. Apples pricing structure, brand and target markets mean they should only ever have a dominant market share in the early days, prolonged only if the competition continue to lag way behind. That was never going to last, with or without Jobs.


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2013)

Plus when it comes to the laughing stock that is Apple Maps, its far from clear that it wouldn't have happened under Jobs. It's not like the app or the UI suck. Its all about data, and I don't think Apple under Jobs had much of a track record for excellence in regards to data or online services.

Its the real driving experience vs the map data, and the local knowledge of the user that exposes Apple Maps to ridicule, and its far from obvious that Jobs would have put anything in place to catch that and delay the launch as a result. And given how his attitude towards Google evolved in response to Android, he was likely a driving force behind starting the maps project and wanting it done quickly.

If I had to guess, I'd say he would have caught one of the comedy problems with Apple maps (probably the wobbly 3d bridges) but let the rest through.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

elbows said:


> Plus when it comes to the laughing stock that is Apple Maps, its far from clear that it wouldn't have happened under Jobs. It's not like the app or the UI suck. Its all about data, and I don't think Apple under Jobs had much of a track record for excellence in regards to data or online services.
> 
> Its the experience and the local knowledge of the user that exposes Apple Maps to ridicule, and its far from obvious that Jobs would have put anything in place to catch that and delay the launch as a result. And given how his attitude towards Google evolved in response to Android, he was likely a driving force behind starting the maps project and wanting it done quickly.



Clearly MobileMe is a good example of how the maps problems could have easily happened under Jobs. Apple are known for not doing data orientated products as well as Google.

Like I said its a false narrative that people who don't know any better or those who have emotionally invested in hating Apple buy into...


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2013)

There is another timing factor - the press and others like to gush over success stories and build them up, then eventually they get bored and start looking for the story of their downfall. In the case of Apple, this desire coincided with the competition getting their act together with smartphones and tablets, and jobs dying. And the phenomenon was heavily amplified in both directions, in part due to prior anomalous dominance that Apple had with the iPod.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

elbows said:


> There is another timing factor - the press and others like to gush over success stories and build them up, then eventually they get bored and start looking for the story of their downfall. In the case of Apple, this desire coincided with the competition getting their act together with smartphones and tablets, and jobs dying. And the phenomenon was heavily amplified in both directions, in part due to prior anomalous dominance that Apple had with the iPod.



Very good point, particularly about the press and their usual game of build up/take down...


----------



## souljacker (Oct 15, 2013)

I've just bought the Mrs a 5c. The salesman in the shop was falling over himself to give me a good deal but wasn't anywhere near as keen to sell me a 4s or 5. They've clearly not sold any.

That means the prices are pretty good. 36/month for unlimited calls and texts plus 1.5gb of data on EE 4G. No charge for the phone, waived an early upgrade fee of £69 and offered £40 for her old lumia 820.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 15, 2013)

Given that my iPhone has never crashed, since I've owned an iPhone. I'm unsure how to take 'double' the number of crashes? 

0x2=....

Even this 1st release of iOS7 is proving to be remarkably stable, had a couple of critical issues which  they fixed in a week. 

Its proved Apple have a very capable QA team indeed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Given that my iPhone has never crashed, since I've owned an iPhone. I'm unsure how to take 'double' the number of crashes?
> 
> 0x2=....
> 
> ...



I'll have to dig it out but I'm sure it's gone from 1% to 2% which is far lower than the hysteria would suggest.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2013)

souljacker said:


> I've just bought the Mrs a 5c. The salesman in the shop was falling over himself to give me a good deal but wasn't anywhere near as keen to sell me a 4s or 5. They've clearly not sold any.
> 
> That means the prices are pretty good. 36/month for unlimited calls and texts plus 1.5gb of data on EE 4G. No charge for the phone, waived an early upgrade fee of £69 and offered £40 for her old lumia 820.



Heh that's useful to know!


----------



## sim667 (Oct 15, 2013)

£36 for 1.5gb of data seems extortionate to me.

iirc I'm on £40 for 2000 mins, 5000 texts, 250 MMS(which I never use) and unlimited data with tethering and a £69 iphone 5 64gb.


----------



## elbows (Oct 15, 2013)

4G data isn't as cheap as 3G though is it? Not that I would know since I've had no experience of 4G or shopping for it yet, can someone spill the beans on this assumption of mine?


----------



## sim667 (Oct 15, 2013)

elbows said:


> 4G data isn't as cheap as 3G though is it? Not that I would know since I've had no experience of 4G or shopping for it yet, can someone spill the beans on this assumption of mine?


 
No its not....... but its also no where near as reliable afaik.

My housemate always whinges about his 4g.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 20, 2013)

Looks like iPhone 5S has pushed the bar on benchmarks:









> Apple's sixth generation iPhone uses the new 64-bit A7 system on a chip (SoC), featuring a dual-core processor. The A7 chip integrates an M7 motion coprocessor, which gathers data from the accelerometer, gyroscope and compass to offload work from the A7 for improved power efficiency.
> 
> New benchmark tests conducted by Which? lab reveal that the iPhone 5s has broken all the records in the processor benchmark and the device is about twice as fast as its predecessor. This matches Apple's official  claims that the iPhone 5s delivers twice the CPU and graphics performance of the previous model. The new iPhone is also 50% faster than Samsung's fourth generation Galaxy S smartphone, Galaxy S4.



*Full article.*














Of course some people who previously relied on such stats will obviously dismiss them now it's Apple doing well out of them...


----------



## Sunray (Oct 20, 2013)

Another Apple event this week, 22nd, in the evening here.  iPod/iPad and new Mac are all rumoured to be demo'ed.

I am really hoping for a faster retina mini.  Loving my current version but if I have the choice, I will just upgrade.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Oct 20, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Of course some people who previously relied on such stats will obviously dismiss them now it's Apple doing well out of them...


To be fair Apple haven't been seen to be playing games on benchmarks.

On the other hand managing to get a single core score of 1500 compared to everyone else's 800 or less is suspicious. Also the 5c is half that, using what is basically last year's chip. No one, in the history of micro processors, has ever managed to double single threaded operation in a single generation. To do it without raising clocks by a power-sapping margin is nigh on impossible.
I'm betting that the speed improvements are real and measurable but they stem from better integration of CPU and OS more than they come from any inerrant advantage of the A7 over all the other ARM chips in use. It's always been one of the key advantages of Apple that they manage hardware and software together so tightly. Android is a more flexible OS and so has to be less tightly coupled/less optimised.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 20, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Another Apple event this week, 22nd, in the evening here.  iPod/iPad and new Mac are all rumoured to be demo'ed.
> 
> I am really hoping for a faster retina mini.  Loving my current version but if I have the choice, I will just upgrade.



Reckon a retina Mini and iPads with Touch ID's would be about right at this stage...


----------



## Badgers (Oct 20, 2013)

Sunray said:
			
		

> Another Apple event this week, 22nd, in the evening here.  iPod/iPad and new Mac are all rumoured to be demo'ed.
> 
> I am really hoping for a faster retina mini.  Loving my current version but if I have the choice, I will just upgrade.



Must be Christmas soon then


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 21, 2013)

Well, my 5s arrived the other day. It's the first iPhone I've owned and while not without the odd flaw it's the best phone I've ever owned and then some.

The Good

It's beautifully made. Makes everything else I've tried feel cheap. Only exception is the HTC One, which has a similar quality feel.
It's fast. Almost impossibly so. Load times for everything are to all practical extents instant. The time it takes for the zoom animation is the time it takes to load an app.
Apps. There's just more choice of quality apps than I got with Android.
iOS7. Overall it's lovely. Apps that haven't been updated to the new look already feel old and clumsy. However, see below.
4G. Holy shit it's fast. I'm going to save £££'s in hotel wifi fees.
Battery life. I'm getting a full day easily, using it at levels that would have needed at least one full recharge on my old HTC.
Call quality. Much better than anything else I've owned.
The camera, particularly the 120fps slow motion video feature 


The Bad

iOS7. It's better on an iPad somehow. The calendar app is particular is, for my needs at least, utterly unusable in the phone version. They've put form before function. The music player looks bloody awful as well.
The keyboard. It's OK, but not as accurate as the stock Android one, for my fingers at least. Maybe I need to adjust, I dunno.
I miss the smartdial feature from HTC sense.
The weight. It's almost too light. Feels a bit odd in your hand because of this. Maybe I'll get used to it though, time will tell.
The fact that a case isn't really an option. All that lovely design will have to be hidden away for fear of breaking it.


But these are all pretty small niggles in the overall scheme of things


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 21, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, my 5s arrived the other day. It's the first iPhone I've owned and while not without the odd flaw it's the best phone I've ever owned and then some.


Wow, careful, heading towards fanboi territory


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 21, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Wow, careful, heading towards fanboi territory


*shrugs*

As I said, it's not perfect. But if there's a better overal hardware/software package in a phone I'd love to see it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 21, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, my 5s arrived the other day. It's the first iPhone I've owned and while not without the odd flaw it's the best phone I've ever owned and then some.
> 
> The Good
> 
> ...



The weight is simply crazy, you're right about it being a snappy fucker too. The camera has taken some great low light shots too, better than my mates 300 six month old Canon point and shoot!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 21, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Wow, careful, heading towards fanboi territory



Heh yeah all it take on urban is you to express an honest opinion about using a Apple devices before the pitchfork brigade are banging on your door!


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2013)




----------



## hendo (Oct 22, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, my 5s arrived the other day. It's the first iPhone I've owned...
> 
> The Bad
> 
> ...



I agree with you about the Calendar and the Music Player, they need completely rethinking; the Calendar isn't as good as io6, but it's a bit better on the ipad.
There are other calendars to buy off the app store which are allegedly better but the default one should be excellent by now. Annoying.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 22, 2013)

hendo said:


> I agree with you about the Calendar and the Music Player, they need completely rethinking; the Calendar isn't as good as io6, but it's a bit better on the ipad.
> There are other calendars to buy off the app store which are allegedly better but the default one should be excellent by now. Annoying.


I went with this one - http://readdle.com/products/calendars5/ 

The Apple one is useless on the phone because in month view all you get is a circle to show you have an event on that day, with no indication as to what particular calendar it's from or whether it spans on to other days. It works on the ipad because they use colour and text to show you the information.

iPhone:






iPad:


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2013)

Interesting thoughts on computer calendars and why the stubborn persistence of real-world metphors hurts their usefulness:

http://www.marco.org/2010/03/28/more-ideas-than-time-logarithmic-calendar-view
response and mockup:
http://verbalshadow.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/the-logarithmic-calendar-view/
even better mockup:
http://i43.tinypic.com/zu2m2d.png


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 22, 2013)

I'd just like a month style view as above but with a continuous scroll, rather than a jump to a new page for each month...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 22, 2013)

The calendar interface I like best is in Fantastical, which is based around your agenda, with the week or month display following where you are on that. (It also has a natural language interface for entering events, which is so so on phones given typing speed, but really shines on a Mac - you can hit the hotkey, type "meet bill at 4pm next Saturday at the pony show for 2h", press enter and it's in there, as opposed to fucking about in Calendar.)

I don't have a lot on my calendar though and rarely need to look at the temporal relation between events, just know when and what they are individually.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

Looks like there's a live video for the iPad event tonight...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 22, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Looks like there's a live video for the iPad event tonight...


Link?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

Use Safari and the US site: apple.com


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2013)

Off to the apple store I go to bolster Apples massive profits.

One iPad mini retina please.  Hmm did it say anything about he weight...*Goes off to look

Well I can't see anything on that. The extra CPU and GPU are very welcome. The screen is crazy for its size.


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 22, 2013)

I'm not temped by the first generation iPad mini retina 


unavailable for preorder until november.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Off to the apple store I go to bolster Apples massive profits.
> 
> One iPad mini retina please.  Hmm did it say anything about he weight...*Goes off to look*



No mention which means it's the same or heavier....curious move to change the name of the iPad...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

Anyone else clock that Gizmodo are now back from Coventry?


----------



## peterkro (Oct 22, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> No mention which means it's the same or heavier....curious move to change the name of the iPad...


It's heavier 341 grams vs 312 grams.


----------



## tombowler (Oct 22, 2013)

I am thinking of buying an Iphone (I currently have no phone due to an ongoing dispute with Vodaphone Cz regarding a HTC desire 200) I would get the last years model from the apple store, 
What I need to be sure of is that I can use Google calendar and a minimum of two gmail accounts on it Possibly up to 5 currently. Will an I phone do this as well as an android phone?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 22, 2013)

tombowler said:


> I am thinking of buying an Iphone (I currently have no phone due to an ongoing dispute with Vodaphone Cz regarding a HTC desire 200) I would get the last years model from the apple store,
> What I need to be sure of is that I can use Google calendar and a minimum of two gmail accounts on it Possibly up to 5 currently. Will an I phone do this as well as an android phone?


Yep, there's a GMail app.


----------



## tombowler (Oct 22, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep, there's a GMail app.


thanks 350 quid is a big investment for me so I have to be sure it does this as we use Gmail for business and calender so I know where the hell i should be and when


----------



## sim667 (Oct 22, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep, there's a GMail app.



I use gmail in my standard iphone mail app and it gives you the option to sync mail, contacts, calendars and notes. I have 8 email accounts in total set up on my phone..... it used to be 10, but I removed my work ones on discovering that would enable my work to remotely wipe my phone.


----------



## magneze (Oct 22, 2013)

Another interesting revision to an Apple product. I originally hated the size and weight of the iPad. This would seem to be better. Glad they're listening.


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2013)

Is this commentator's analysis accurate?


> iPad 'Air' = Thinner/lighter/New SoC, yet still runs the same apps and has the same functionality/features.
> 
> iPad 2 = Same device many have owned and liked for some 3 years now, though this time it won't likely see another major OS update due to its limited SoC/RAM.
> 
> ...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

iOS update is out by the look of it, fixes a few things.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

tombowler said:


> I am thinking of buying an Iphone (I currently have no phone due to an ongoing dispute with Vodaphone Cz regarding a HTC desire 200) I would get the last years model from the apple store,
> What I need to be sure of is that I can use Google calendar and a minimum of two gmail accounts on it Possibly up to 5 currently. Will an I phone do this as well as an android phone?



You'd have to use the Gmail app I think. Google have stopped supporting a type of push so the standard mail app won't give you it now...


----------



## spacemonkey (Oct 22, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I went with this one - http://readdle.com/products/calendars5/
> 
> 
> iPhone:



God that new calendar app is fucking shit. What the fuck were they thinking?? Surely all the guys designing it use iPhones and therefore the calendar app. Did nobody stop and say...."Uhhh guys you can't see what you have coming up on each day without clicking in and opening the entire day and then having to scroll around to find the exact time".


----------



## souljacker (Oct 22, 2013)

£319 for an ipad mini! Fuck that shit!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

souljacker said:


> £319 for an ipad mini! Fuck that shit!



Just clocked that, that's a silly bump in price for what is meant to be a cheaper line. For a little more you can get a full size bloody iPad!


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 22, 2013)

iOS 7.03 update fixes the blue screen and other stuff.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

Yup.


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 22, 2013)

souljacker said:


> £319 for an ipad mini! Fuck that shit!


Although it is quite an update. There really isn't much between the mini and iPad air other than size.

The iPad 2 is now cheaper and presumably the go to device for schools and corporate


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 22, 2013)

iPad mini is a fiver more than a retina iPad 3rd gen in the refurb store!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> iPad mini is a fiver more than a retina iPad 3rd gen in the refurb store!



That's bonkers.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 22, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Although it is quite an update. There really isn't much between the mini and iPad air other than size.
> 
> The iPad 2 is now cheaper and presumably the go to device for schools and corporate



Yeah I was wondering why the hell you'd want iPad 2...but I guess mass deployment makes sense...


----------



## souljacker (Oct 22, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> iPad mini is a fiver more than a retina iPad 3rd gen in the refurb store!



The lowest price Air comes in at only £80 more. If you keep an eye out for vouchers at Tesco at Christmas, you can probably get £20 off that price.

Ludicrous pricing IMO.


----------



## souljacker (Oct 22, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah I was wondering why the hell you'd want iPad 2...but I guess mass deployment makes sense...



We are doing a lot of wifi business with schools who want the airgroup functions. Great for teaching.

I'd imagine that the production line for the v2 is now pretty efficient and chip prices must have come down. So I suspect its considerably cheaper to make than its £329 price suggests. So either Apple are taking the piss or they are looking to sell tons to schools at a hefty discount. I reckon both are true.


----------



## RedDragon (Oct 22, 2013)

They really should've priced it at £299


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Oct 22, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> They really should've priced it at £299



aye


----------



## elbows (Oct 22, 2013)

editor said:


> Is this commentator's analysis accurate?



Just dealing with the bit you quoted for now:



> iPad 'Air' = Thinner/lighter/New SoC, yet still runs the same apps and has the same functionality/features.



There are some rather minor feature improvements barely worth mentioning, like the dual mics. And although I don't think they mentioned it or have confirmed it, the photos of it gives the impression that it may finally have stereo speakers.



> iPad 2 = Same device many have owned and liked for some 3 years now, though this time it won't likely see another major OS update due to its limited SoC/RAM.



Depends what you call a major OS update and what exactly Apple want to do in the next version. For example, since there is plenty of not terribly old non-64 bit Apple iOS hardware out there and still being sold, it is not like they will move aggressively to make the next major release of iOS 64-bit only. That will happen one day, but not for a few years at least. That both the iPad 2 and the original iPad mini remain in their lineup after today, and that they made iOS 7 work on this class of device, means that its probably safe for a good few years of further iOS updates. Unless they desperately want to do something in the next iOS that cannot handle something like the memory limit of the iPad 2, but I think their present product lineup means they have real reasons to avoid that for now. And Apple can always choose to disable specific software functionality on certain devices if they aren't up to it, or its a feature apple only want to give to customers of the latest devices due to the dark arts of sales/marketing.



> iPad Mini 2 = Better display, current SoC same design, functionality and features with a serious price hike.



My brain hasn't decided how serious a price hike this is, because in the world of Apple the price often fails to match what people are hoping for, but they often manage to sell shitloads in spite of this. There is some evidence they damaged iPhone 5C sales (relative to their own likely sales expectations) with the pricing choice made on that one, and its always possible they will do so again with another product. Not convinced they have in this case though. If they managed to create demand for the original iPad mini that had underwhelming tech spec in several important areas, and they did, they can probably squeeze plenty of people for more money for the retina one. 

Personally I'll be interested to see how it benchmarks against the iPad Air before making any purchasing decisions. 



> iPad Mini = Same device with (perplexingly) a mere US 30.00 price drop.



That modest drop isn't too perplexing when the price of many other of their products is taken into account. As I droned on about when the first iPad mini pricing was being debated, they likely don't want the price of their cheapest tablets to start to merge too obviously with some of their iPod touch prices. Or for the mini's to clash with the larger iPads in certain ways. As they've added more devices, some of the numbers do clash awkwardly at times, especially due to their usual chunky premiums for higher storage capacities. But its the usual Apple premium pricing strategy, where even their 'cheap end' still comes with luxury price tag, and discounts when they happen tend to be modest.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 22, 2013)

Why do people discuss and get so worked up at Apples pricing?  

Since as long as I can remember, Apple have made expensive kit and they don't think about racing to the bottom. They are unapologetic about it, Cook has gone on record saying he likened Apple to Mercedes and Porche?  There are many products out there that are cheaper.

Why should the iPad mini be 299?  It was 279 before and now its 319 for quite a major upgrade from a CPU/GPU/Display perspective.  The few extra grams are minor. I doubt i'd notice them.

I have an original mini and its been a great thing to own, arguably Apples best product.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 22, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Since as long as I can remember, Apple have made expensive kit and they don't think about racing to the bottom. They are unapologetic about it, Cook has gone on record saying he likened Apple to Mercedes and Porche?  There are many products out there that are cheaper.


Apple are like BMW in a world with no Mercedes, Porsche, Lexus or Bentley. They have the whole of the top end of the market to themselves and are laughing all the way to the bank.


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Apple are like BMW in a world with no Mercedes, Porsche, Lexus or Bentley. They have the whole of the top end of the market to themselves and are laughing all the way to the bank.


They're lost their grip on the top end of the smartphone market though.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2013)

That was always going to happen.  

The only reason they ever owned it and they owned it for far too long, was because the competition was totally shit.  

After being handed their arse many times over, the phone manufacturers finally got round to competing.


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 23, 2013)

Sunray said:


> That was always going to happen.
> 
> The only reason they ever owned it and they owned it for far too long, was because the competition was totally shit.
> 
> After being handed their arse many times over, the phone manufacturers finally got round to competing.



Thats the benefit of the free market for you


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2013)

Sunray said:


> That was always going to happen.
> 
> The only reason they ever owned it and they owned it for far too long, was because the competition was totally shit.
> 
> After being handed their arse many times over, the phone manufacturers finally got round to competing.


Android phones have been 'competing' for years. My S2 was far from 'shit' - in fact even that outsold the iPhone.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 23, 2013)

The S2 came out 4 years after the iPhone and Samsung needed Google to compete.  Their own OS implementations were terrible iPhone copies before they got Android.

I see that the retina Mini is 'Later in November'.  Its essetially an iPad Air but smaller and cheaper and not a great deal more than the Mini.

I can't see how they will sell many more of the 1st gen Mini's, I suppose Apple are just draining down existing stock.


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 23, 2013)

editor said:


> They're lost their grip on the top end of the smartphone market though.


How many different Android phones there; how many different iOS phones?  Exactly.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 23, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> How many different Android phones there; how many different iOS phones?  Exactly.



You have to wonder if they lost their grip or if the market just got bigger...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 23, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Apple are like BMW in a world with no Mercedes, Porsche, Lexus or Bentley. They have the whole of the top end of the market to themselves and are laughing all the way to the bank.



One way to look at it I guess....


----------



## gabi (Oct 24, 2013)

Anyone know why an iPhone would suddenly be unable to spot any wi-fi networks? Just does the whirring searching wheel thing. Tried factory reset and also upgraded the OS... Can't seem to fix it. Is it fucked?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 24, 2013)

gabi said:


> Anyone know why an iPhone would suddenly be unable to spot any wi-fi networks? Just does the whirring searching wheel thing. Tried factory reset and also upgraded the OS... Can't seem to fix it. Is it fucked?



No idea...you had this for a while or after updating to iOS 7?


----------



## Sunray (Oct 25, 2013)

gabi said:


> Anyone know why an iPhone would suddenly be unable to spot any wi-fi networks? Just does the whirring searching wheel thing. Tried factory reset and also upgraded the OS... Can't seem to fix it. Is it fucked?



If you factory reset it and didn't apply the back up and it still didn't work, yes the wifi may well have stopped working.


----------



## elbows (Oct 26, 2013)

Pictures leaked of another manufacturers upcoming gamepad for iPhone. This one has dual sticks:

https://twitter.com/evleaks/status/393730574298251264/photo/1


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 26, 2013)

Dual sticks = yay!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 1, 2013)

More thoughts after having used my 5s for a couple of weeks now...



I still can't get on with the keyboard. It comes out with gibberish from time to time that seemingly bears no relation to what I tried to type.
One area where Android is streets ahead is sharing stuff. Trying to attach things to an email is a (often impossible) joke in iOS. 
The screen is better than any other phone I've seen/used. Forget meaningless pixel density scores, the way things seem to almost "float" on top of the glass (iirc it's something to do with the way they bond the screen to it?) is lovely.
iMessage is brilliant. Start a conversation on my phone continue it on my laptop etc. Very handy.
The fingerprint thing isn't a gimmick. It's a great feature, done right. See the new HTC for an example of getting it very wrong.
Battery life is amazing (for a smartphone at any rate). I've been using it heavily every day (aka the "shiny new toy effect"  ) and have yet to see anything less than 20% left by the time I go to bed. Apples claims of optimising code etc seem to be working.
Sharing stuff. I'll mention it again because it's so fucking shit. A great example of the Apple way not being the right one. I know it's for security/app stability etc but come on, there has to be a better solution.
Apple maps isn't anything like as bad as it's made out to be.


----------



## elbows (Nov 1, 2013)

Security is only one of the reasons for the sharing/files mess. Its also because Apple had some wacky ideas about eliminating file structures from the minds of its users.

People have some ways to try to work round these limitations, including using something like dropbox & apps that support it. But this is not a comprehensive solution.

In the world of music-making software there are some 'audio clipboard' standards that people use to move sounds between apps that support that stuff, but its still rather clunky.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 1, 2013)

I can't even attach a pdf from Dropbox to an email*, it's daft.




*unless I'm missing something daft, which is entirely possible


----------



## Crispy (Nov 1, 2013)

Yep, it remains the biggest flaw in iOS. Desperately needs a top-down rethink.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 1, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Apple maps isn't anything like as bad as it's made out to be.


Maps has improved massively, although the other day I was being told there's a Blackpool near Brighton - perhaps there is, but it did get me thinking.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 1, 2013)

I'm not sure if its just me but I kind of prefer the look and feel of the 5C to the 5S. I quite like phones to feel light and plasticy as long as they perform well under the bonnet, and (maybe strangely subconsciously) it doesn't feel so bad after many months of being chucked about if its got a slight scuff or smudge either. I'm less likely to feel the need to buy all kinds of protective addons and worry about the phone looking nice and shiny.

Also the 5S has those 'precision cut' sharp edges. I like the smooth plastic on the SC. Nicer on the hands when retrieving multiple times from ones pocket.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 1, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm not sure if its just me but I kind of prefer the look and feel of the 5C to the 5S. I quite like phones to feel light and plasticy as long as they perform well under the bonnet, and (maybe strangely subconsciously) it doesn't feel so bad after many months of being chucked about if its got a slight scuff or smudge either. I'm less likely to feel the need to buy all kinds of protective addons and worry about the phone looking nice and shiny.
> 
> Also the 5S has those 'precision cut' sharp edges. I like the smooth plastic on the SC. Nicer on the hands when retrieving multiple times from ones pocket.



Can't find the article, but a chap from the register said he much prefered it as well and wanted the 5S guts in a 5C.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> More thoughts after having used my 5s for a couple of weeks now...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Spot on and agree with every point. The keyboard has been annoying the hell out of me too.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 1, 2013)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm not sure if its just me but I kind of prefer the look and feel of the 5C to the 5S. I quite like phones to feel light and plasticy as long as they perform well under the bonnet, and (maybe strangely subconsciously) it doesn't feel so bad after many months of being chucked about if its got a slight scuff or smudge either. I'm less likely to feel the need to buy all kinds of protective addons and worry about the phone looking nice and shiny.
> 
> Also the 5S has those 'precision cut' sharp edges. I like the smooth plastic on the SC. Nicer on the hands when retrieving multiple times from ones pocket.



The 5C (like the 3GS) feels much nicer in the hand but the 5S feels snappier to use iyswim.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 3, 2013)

A mate has dumped Blackberry (8 years with them) and bought iPhone 5S (despite my best efforts to persuade him to get a good Android phone), got a text from him the other night saying how great it was. Made me laugh after.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 4, 2013)

I think the file sharing thing is down to the brief that iOS was a content consumption device rather than creation, but I agree with Crispy, it needs some focus on interoperability between applications.  

I don't have the issue but I don't use it for work, but they dish them out for enterprise sales so I think it will get some more attention at some point.


----------



## Mojofilter (Nov 5, 2013)

Android really does have sharing nailed compared to iOS.
So much so that if I want to share something that's on my iPad I usually end up finding it in my Android phone and sharing it from there.

Not so much annoying as it is ridiculous.


----------



## souljacker (Nov 8, 2013)

Anyone having issues with the proximity sensor? I keep cutting people off with my cheek. Apparently 7.0.3 fixes it (for some) so I'm downloading it now. It bloody better fix it because it is pissing me right off.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 12, 2013)

Anyone know of any good ios apps that will aggregate updates from various blogs/wordpress sites etc?

Like flipboard does?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 14, 2013)

IOS 7.0.4 has been released - only significant thing seems to be tightening up security for iTunes Store App/In-App purchases.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1222


----------



## sim667 (Nov 14, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> IOS 7.0.4 has been released - only significant thing seems to be tightening up security for iTunes Store App/In-App purchases.
> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1222



Fuck everything else they need to fix the 7.0.3 ios and 11.1.3 iTunes music sync incompatibility


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 14, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> IOS 7.0.4 has been released - only significant thing seems to be tightening up security for iTunes Store App/In-App purchases.
> http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1222



Cheers for the heads up.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Nov 28, 2013)

I've fucked my phone up 
I had already dropped it and carcked the back cover a little on one side, it still worked and was well out of warranty so I just carried on using it. Then the other day I dropped it onto my iPad which not only further damaged my phone but also cracked the screen of my iPad  I was so pissed off.
I'm going to take them both to an apple shop and see if they can be repaired. Can they? Both are out of warranty but d'you reckon they might give me a discount if I buy a new phone and/or iPad?


----------



## mrs quoad (Nov 28, 2013)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> I've fucked my phone up
> I had already dropped it and carcked the back cover a little on one side, it still worked and was well out of warranty so I just carried on using it. Then the other day I dropped it onto my iPad which not only further damaged my phone but also cracked the screen of my iPad  I was so pissed off.
> I'm going to take them both to an apple shop and see if they can be repaired. Can they? Both are out of warranty but d'you reckon they might give me a discount if I buy a new phone and/or iPad?


My iPad 2 was out of warranty when it died. Total blackout. No response. I'd set myself to expect fuck all and a full purchase of an iPad 3; but they replaced it with a brown box (ie full apple refurb / warranty replacement) model at my "nothing to lose" Genius Bar appointment. I can't remember if they charged for it; it may have cost £80-100 (64gb wifi only). It was my second brown box replacement; I got the first bc the screen had a substantial scratch on it within one month; I'd been actively discouraged from buying a screen protector and had kept it properly well protected (smart screen and 2nd foam case at all times.) So felt my grievance was reasonable. 

My iPhone was <1 week old when I walked into a bollard in Paris, and bent it. Full new replacement £180 (that's the "you're entirely culpable" replacement price.)

Long story short, it is well worth a try. Though it may be a replacement unit instead of a replacement screen (other unofficial places May, imu, be better able to do a straightforward screen replacement.)


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Nov 28, 2013)

Well my home button is broken and was broken long before I started dropping it all over the place so I'd need that repaired too.
The ipad still works and it's mainly for ShiftyJunior to play minecraft on so I doubt I'll replace that, unless it's super cheap of course.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Nov 28, 2013)

Do I need to book an appointment to see them about this then or can I just go to the shop?


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 28, 2013)

Go to their london (or what's local to you) website and book an appointment with the genius bar.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 30, 2013)

EURGH, just rang up 3 as my iphone charger port is becoming lose and even the minutest brush against the cable stops it charging (happens on all 3 of my charging cables)

3 said they couldn't do anything and passed me to apple, apple said it would cost £216 to replace despite the fact I'm mid term in a 2 year contract, because it's out of its 1 year warranty.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 30, 2013)

sim667 said:


> EURGH, just rang up 3 as my iphone charger port is becoming lose and even the minutest brush against the cable stops it charging (happens on all 3 of my charging cables)
> 
> 3 said they couldn't do anything and passed me to apple, apple said it would cost £216 to replace despite the fact I'm mid term in a 2 year contract, because it's out of its 1 year warranty.


Tell them that the "1 year warranty" is meaningless, as under UK law goods are required to last a "reasonable" amount of time. What exactly "reasonable" is isn't defined, but I'm sure most people would agree that it is more than 1 year.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 30, 2013)

sim667 said:


> EURGH, just rang up 3 as my iphone charger port is becoming lose and even the minutest brush against the cable stops it charging (happens on all 3 of my charging cables)
> 
> 3 said they couldn't do anything and passed me to apple, apple said it would cost £216 to replace despite the fact I'm mid term in a 2 year contract, because it's out of its 1 year warranty.


How do you mean "charger port coming lose"?

Something similar happened to my phone where my charger male port wouldn't fully fit into the female port so wouldn't properly charge - I got a thin long sawing needle and ran it down the edges of the female port only to discover loads of compacted pocket felt, once I carefully removed this the male port fit snuggly again - problem solved.


----------



## Me76 (Nov 30, 2013)

sim667 said:


> EURGH, just rang up 3 as my iphone charger port is becoming lose and even the minutest brush against the cable stops it charging (happens on all 3 of my charging cables)
> 
> 3 said they couldn't do anything and passed me to apple, apple said it would cost £216 to replace despite the fact I'm mid term in a 2 year contract, because it's out of its 1 year warranty.


My phone was doing the same as yours a little while ago and a factory reset mostly sorted it. Every now and then it will still come up with a message saying charging not supported with this accessory but unplugging and plugging back in sorts it.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 30, 2013)

There's quite a lot of movement side to side when it's plugged in, if it slides too much the power pops in and out from the cable


----------



## Mojofilter (Dec 1, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> How do you mean "charger port coming lose"?
> 
> Something similar happened to my phone where my charger male port wouldn't fully fit into the female port so wouldn't properly charge - I got a thin long sawing needle and ran it down the edges of the female port only to discover loads of compacted pocket felt, once I carefully removed this the male port fit snuggly again - problem solved.



This. I must have very linty pockets or something because I've had to do it a couple of times a year with every phone that I've ever owned.


----------



## Mojofilter (Dec 1, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Tell them that the "1 year warranty" is meaningless, as under UK law goods are required to last a "reasonable" amount of time. What exactly "reasonable" is isn't defined, but I'm sure most people would agree that it is more than 1 year.




Yep, I get a free legal advice helpline with my job. According to them a "reasonable" amount of time when you're on a 2 year contract is 2 years at the very minimum.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 1, 2013)

Ok, worked it out..... Here's the long story

Rang 3 yesterday, palmed me off onto apple who quote me £216 for repair. Rang apple this morning to see if I could a genius bar appointment, they could only do weekdays (because we've all clearly got enough time in our working lives to dedicate a day off to go to the apple store  ). Went to the three store today to see if we could reach any resolution (the one in crawley for reference), the manager just cunted me off "I've got no technical train, but this is clearly damage cause by misuse" - I hadn't even taken my phone out of my pocket by that point, he just continued spewing the company line, "you need to take it to apple", when I mentioned this eu law he just repeatedly said "I've worked at o2, I've worked at t-mobile, you only ever get a one year warranty. Thats why you should only buy samsung's, they come with a 2 year warranty"...... Anyway he offered me a loan phone for £30, and offered a sim adapter for free (which he didn't have to do I understand), but actually by this point I was fuming enough to kick off in the shop, so left before I made a twat of myself.

So I got home and rang apple, and told them I knew about this law, and the chap on the phone said it has to go through three, but you have to specifically say you're making an "EU Wide Consumer legal claim". So I rang three back, said that, and they said "No problem, you organise and pay for the repair, and we'll credit you 50% of the repair cost", at this point I literally said "No, its got to be 100%". She went to check with her boss and it was agree no problem.

So apple repair is organised, it does mean I'll spend a week without a phone, but it might do me good to have a break, people complain I constantly have my phone in my hand. I do need and alarm clock though. 

This has got a chart with all the warranties you have on it
http://www.apple.com/legal/


----------



## Winot (Dec 2, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> How do you mean "charger port coming lose"?
> 
> Something similar happened to my phone where my charger male port wouldn't fully fit into the female port so wouldn't properly charge - I got a thin long sawing needle and ran it down the edges of the female port only to discover loads of compacted pocket felt, once I carefully removed this the male port fit snuggly again - problem solved.


 
Or you can buy a can of compressed air from Maplins for about £10 which gets rid of the dust safely.


----------



## peterkro (Dec 2, 2013)

Just as a thought and no interest at all really I updated my iPhone to 7.04 yesterday (lost my jailbreak but I'm confident the devteam will break 7.1) those who said the GUI was worse than 6.0, surely not it's great kudos to Jonathan Ives.


----------



## RedDragon (Dec 2, 2013)

Winot said:


> Or you can buy a can of compressed air from Maplins for about £10 which gets rid of the dust safely.


Tried that and it didn't work. I'm talking about a build-up of months of pocket lint as well as it being compacted whenever the charger was connected.


----------



## Supine (Dec 5, 2013)

So, ios7 makes the iPhone waterproof!

http://www.techweekeurope.co.uk/news/ios-7-waterpoof-iphone-5s-apple-127820

Doh!!!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 11, 2013)

Jesus the smartphone market really is nowhere as diverse as it used to be...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 12, 2013)

Nokia now make the Galaxy SIII mini?


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Nokia now make the Galaxy SIII mini?


Clearly a real high quality, well researched source there.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 12, 2013)

Nokia still exist?

I thought they gave up when people stopped playing snake.

Has anyone else not been able to sync music to their iphone using itunes, for literally months now?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Has anyone else not been able to sync music to their iphone using itunes, for literally months now?


Works fine for me.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Nokia still exist?


Just a bit. Their Lumia phones are excellent.

Nokia Lumia sales hit record 8.8 million in Q3, North America doubles


----------



## sim667 (Dec 12, 2013)

editor said:


> Just a bit. Their Lumia phones are excellent.
> 
> Nokia Lumia sales hit record 8.8 million in Q3, North America doubles



Oh thinking about, my friend had a nokia..... it had that windows OS with the green slidey things on it..... I wasn't that impressed (the OS, not the hardware).


----------



## sim667 (Dec 12, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Works fine for me.



I haven't since september I don't think.....

Gonna restore my phone and all that to see if I can get it working....... but a quick google shows its quite a common problem.


----------



## editor (Dec 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Oh thinking about, my friend had a nokia..... it had that windows OS with the green slidey things on it..... I wasn't that impressed (the OS, not the hardware).


I had a review model of the 1020. It was just a few apps short of being a really great phone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 12, 2013)

sim667 said:


> Nokia still exist?
> 
> I thought they gave up when people stopped playing snake.
> 
> Has anyone else not been able to sync music to their iphone using itunes, for literally months now?



Apparently they do. Was talking to someone today who was complaining about their windows Nokia phone. They're getting an iPhone next...


----------



## editor (Dec 13, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Apparently they do. Was talking to someone today who was complaining about their windows Nokia phone. They're getting an iPhone next...


Oh well, if one anonymous person you supposedly met says that, then of course that must be true for the entire industry, regardless of what the rising sales figures, growing customer satisfaction studies and reviews say.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 13, 2013)

Yeah because that's what I claimed... </bored of fan droid idiocy>


----------



## sim667 (Dec 13, 2013)

editor said:


> Oh well, if one anonymous person you supposedly met says that, then of course that must be true for the entire industry, regardless of what the rising sales figures, growing customer satisfaction studies and reviews say.



In all fairness the freind I suddenly realised had a nokia also switched back to iPhone, but he said it wasn't because of the phone itself, he just liked the way it all integrated with his iMac etc.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 13, 2013)

sim667 said:


> In all fairness the freind I suddenly realised had a nokia also switched back to iPhone, but he said it wasn't because of the phone itself, he just liked the way it all integrated with his iMac etc.



My friend did mention that she didn't like that Nokia didn't sync with her iPad but the UX was the thing that pushed her in the iPhone direction....


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 15, 2013)

Has a new one today, someone I know actually chose to get a 5C...little puzzled have to say...


----------



## sim667 (Dec 19, 2013)

So three finally coughed up for my out of warranty repair. 

Morale of the story, it's a bastard to get, but the European warranty claim essentially renders AppleCare worthless.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 19, 2013)

And any extended warranty on any electronic goods to be fair


----------



## spacemonkey (Dec 19, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Has a new one today, someone I know actually chose to get a 5C...little puzzled have to say...



3 of my housemates bought them. They were cheaper on contract, and they're all very much 'meh, it's an iphone'. I can see why they're selling.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2013)

Fair enough. Maybe the prices have shifted downward recently..?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 20, 2013)

A company I know got 5c's for all their staff. I guess the saving on one phone compared to a 5s isn't that great, but when you buy a hundred or so it becomes more significant.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A company I know got 5c's for all their staff. I guess the saving on one phone compared to a 5s isn't that great, but when you buy a hundred or so it becomes more significant.



Ah now there I can see a point, I know a few organisations that deployed the 3GS and then the 4 for their staff, they're the likely ones to get the 5C...


----------



## pesh (Dec 20, 2013)

deployed 
it's a fucking phone, not an aircraft carrier.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 20, 2013)

pesh said:


> deployed
> it's a fucking phone, not an aircraft carrier.


That's just an IT term though, isn't it? It's often not as simple as handing them out to people, you need to make sure everything is configured properly, often have to do user training etc


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 20, 2013)

pesh said:


> deployed
> it's a fucking phone, not an aircraft carrier.


"Deploy" isn't a military-specific word you know?



> *deploy*
> verb [T]   /dɪˈplɔɪ/ › to use something or someone, especially in an effective way: The company is reconsidering the way in which it deploys its resources/staff. My job doesn't really allow me fully to deploy my skills/talents.



http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/british/deploy?q=deploy



beesonthewhatnow said:


> That's just an IT term though, isn't it?


Not specifically no.

Nothing wrong with this use of English.


----------



## diond (Dec 20, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> "Deploy" isn't a military-specific word you know?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think from the get-go, when you drill down and touch base, you will see through blue sky thinking, that the lifting and shifting and eventual deploying and cascading of said iphones will mean, that moving forward, this should incentivise staff 110%.


----------



## Me76 (Dec 20, 2013)

I've got a 5c for work. Posting on it now in fact. I prefer the feel of it in my hand without a case to the 5s. There are a few if them at work but the hardware allowance was running out which is why I got mine.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> "Deploy" isn't a military-specific word you know?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very weird reaction, it's what they call it when they give equipment to their workers.


----------



## pesh (Dec 21, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> "Deploy" isn't a military-specific word you know?
> Nothing wrong with this use of English.


no, but a good example of twatspeak


----------



## diond (Dec 21, 2013)

pesh said:


> no, but a good example of twatspeak


Much more eloquently put than myself.


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 21, 2013)

pesh said:


> no, but a good example of twatspeak


Not it's not. So what word you have used......?


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 21, 2013)

"...gave the 3GS then the 4 to their staff"

Obviously


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 21, 2013)

twentythreedom said:


> "...gave the 3GS then the 4 to their staff"
> 
> Obviously


Except "gave" is not very accurate. "Gave" implies some sort of gift.  They were not gifts, they were tools for work.  Therefore the word "deploy" is more fitting.


----------



## peterkro (Dec 21, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Except "gave" is not very accurate. "Gave" implies some sort of gift.  They were not gifts, they were tools for work.  Therefore the word "deploy" is more fitting.


That's not true,"Dave gave me the hammer to flatten the boss".PP of give.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 21, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Except "gave" is not very accurate. "Gave" implies some sort of gift.  They were not gifts, they were tools for work.  Therefore the word "deploy" is more fitting.



These people clearly have no clue, this reaction is beyond weird.


----------



## diond (Dec 22, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Except "gave" is not very accurate. "Gave" implies some sort of gift.  They were not gifts, they were tools for work.  Therefore the word "deploy" is more fitting.


I am given work to do on a daily basis - it certainly doesn't feel like a gift to me. There is nothing wrong with saying, "I know a few organisations that gave staff the 3GS, and then the 4, for work." The word 'gave' makes perfect sense, has been used in this way for many years, and, more importantly, doesn't make you sound like a twat.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 23, 2013)

You're not given work you're paid to do work. Big difference. Deploy is the correct term for this, you're being very weird about a term that's well known and established.


----------



## peterkro (Dec 24, 2013)

I don't see this mentioned elsewhere.Evasi0n have released the iOs jailbreak about to do it now.I wasn't expecting  a Xmas present that is actually useful.


----------



## diond (Dec 28, 2013)

Kid_Eternity said:


> You're not given work you're paid to do work. Big difference. Deploy is the correct term for this, you're being very weird about a term that's well known and established.


You're given work to do and then you're paid for completing it. It would be very weird and unusual if my boss said, "Can I deploy this piece of work to you?" That would be twatish speak. Most none weird people would say that they're "giving" you mobiles, rather than deploying them - particularly as that's the most well known and established term of phrase.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 28, 2013)

Infinity Blade II is currently free on the App Store at the moment. 

Great game.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 28, 2013)

Nice.


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 28, 2013)

Sunray said:


> Infinity Blade II is currently free on the App Store at the moment.
> 
> Great game.


Says £4.99.


----------



## Bungle73 (Dec 28, 2013)

III is on special offer for £1.99.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 28, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Says £4.99.



Soz, its IGN's game of the month, should have posted the link, 

http://uk.ign.com/prime/promo/infinity-blade-2-free

Only got a few days left so hurry up!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 29, 2013)

Aha.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Jan 3, 2014)

I'm still dithering about new iphone 5s (currently on o2 with an old 4)

I remember reading (maybe on u75 or moneysavingexpert.com) that if you can possibly afford to buy it outright from apple then that is always financially better in the long run  (perhaps especially as I'm a VAT registered business?)... rather than get an upgrade from 02 or whoever

(….and then negotiate a really good cheap monthly deal - for me it would need a tonne of data but just a few hundred texts and minutes)

I always thought that the world of commerce works like that..it's part of the so called "poverty premium" ie you pay more in the long term if you haven't got the capital up front

Is that still the case?

My girlfriend's instinct is that a 5S with a lot of memory is such a heck of a lot of money up front…700 quid ffs!..that an upgrade is cleverer even if you have the capital


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 3, 2014)

Any advice on parental controls for iPad?

My daughter has a new iPad Air, and is using my Apple account as she is too young to get one. 

e2a: she will be old enough for an Apple ID in a few weeks.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 3, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> Any advice on parental controls for iPad?
> 
> My daughter has a new iPad Air, and is using my Apple account as she is too young to get one.
> 
> e2a: she will be old enough for an Apple ID in a few weeks.



My advice: turn them on.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 4, 2014)

Piers Gibbon you've got to do the sums. Compare their sim only tariff vs the contract price and take it from there. Of course they don't always make them like for like to make comparisons harder, but worked out cheaper for me last upgrade to go contract. 

It's a lot harder to negotiate these days on upgrades then it was, but if you're a business user with a decent sized monthly bill it may be easier.


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Jan 4, 2014)

Oh god not the sums! Thanks…was so much hoping to avoid the sums and the comparing of apples with oranges on different contracts…and sadly my monthly use is low so I am not all that attractive, as a customer ;-)	 ok sums it is


----------



## RedDragon (Jan 10, 2014)

Astonishing to think it was only 7 years ago yesterday Jobs introduced the iPhone MacRumours,


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 10, 2014)

Have you read anything about the drinking game the engineers played while sitting in the audience for that? Or about the golden path?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 10, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Have you read anything about the drinking game the engineers played while sitting in the audience for that? Or about the golden path?


I've read that a lot of people were shitting themselves because it was a dodgy prototype that was still buggy as hell.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 11, 2014)

Yup basically it wasn't really a working phone but a massive blag. You had to use certain features in order otherwise it'd crash.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 11, 2014)

Full article about the iPhone development and launch. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/magazine/and-then-steve-said-let-there-be-an-iphone.html


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 11, 2014)

Lazy Llama said:


> Full article about the iPhone development and launch.
> 
> http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/magazine/and-then-steve-said-let-there-be-an-iphone.html



Yup that's an excerpt from the book 'Dogfight: How Apple and Google Went to War and Started a Revolution'. Just finished reading it, very interesting and almost fair account of both Google and Apple's early fight in mobile...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 11, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yup that's an excerpt from the book 'Dogfight: How Apple and Google Went to War and Started a Revolution'. Just finished reading it, very interesting and almost fair account of both Google and Apple's early fight in mobile...


I've read a couple of articles that said Google pretty much threw Android in the bin and started again when they saw the iPhone.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 11, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've read a couple of articles that said Google pretty much threw Android in the bin and started again when they saw the iPhone.



Read the book, it's a seemingly fair account of just how duplicitous both sides were.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 19, 2014)

The 8GB version of the iPhone 5C is available, I was wondering who this was aimed at...youngsters that just use streaming services?

Also, how much actual storage space is available once you've got the OS and default applications installed? Does anyone have an 8GB iPhone?


----------



## sim667 (Mar 19, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> The 8GB version of the iPhone 5C is available, I was wondering who this was aimed at...youngsters that just use streaming services?
> 
> Also, how much actual storage space is available once you've got the OS and default applications installed? Does anyone have an 8GB iPhone?


 
iOS probably kills off 1.6 ish gb.

To me its pointless, but there are a lot of people who just use iphones as phones/web on the go and the odd photo.

So it probably suits them.... Im currently deleting stuff as my 64GB iPhone is full


----------



## RedDragon (Mar 19, 2014)

I'm forever having to Sophie's choice what I keep on my 64GB, whereas my partner barely clocks-up 16GB.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 19, 2014)

Its getting time for another Apple announcement, the iPhone 6 if nothing else. Though if I was them I'd ditch the numbering and change to calling them like cars, the iPhone GTi SE.


----------



## RedDragon (Mar 19, 2014)

I wish they'd hurry up and finishing copying Samsung's 5.7" screen and announce iPhone6


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 19, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> The 8GB version of the iPhone 5C is available, I was wondering who this was aimed at...youngsters that just use streaming services?
> 
> Also, how much actual storage space is available once you've got the OS and default applications installed? Does anyone have an 8GB iPhone?



I know two people it's perfect for, both older people who like the ease of the iPhone but don't need the huge amounts of storage (they have 3GSs at the mo)...


----------



## Mr Retro (Mar 20, 2014)

I got an iPad Air yesterday. I can't believe the quality of the screen. I just keep browsing around in awe.


----------



## elbows (Mar 20, 2014)

Sunray said:


> Its getting time for another Apple announcement, the iPhone 6 if nothing else. Though if I was them I'd ditch the numbering and change to calling them like cars, the iPhone GTi SE.



I've seen nothing to indicate that they are about to change their announcement and launch schedule for iPhones, so there are many months to go till the iPhone 6 is official previewed. 

If you think a new iPhone should be mentioned this soon after the last one, its another indication that Apple messed up by taking one if not two years longer than they should of in coming up with a version with a substantially larger screen. Personally I have had enough of android, am out of contract and would like to get an iPhone again, but the screen size of the present ones makes me extremely tempted to keep waiting.


----------



## Sunray (Mar 20, 2014)

They usually have two announcements per year one about now and one in the autumn.  This one has been to showcase software rather than hardware though.


----------



## elbows (Mar 20, 2014)

Yeah but not that soon for the same line of products, that doesn't offer them as much return on their design & manufacturing investment as they want, and upsets owners (as happened when the iPad 4 came out so soon after the iPad 3). Plus there is a relationship between major versions of iOS being announced in detail (so 3rd party devs can get stuff ready) and the first new iOS hardware that will ship with that version coming out.

This time of year is when iPads used to be announced, but they shifted the timing of that significantly last year (or the year before with the aforementioned iPad 4, I forget) and I've seen nothing to suggest they will switch back to this part of the year again for iPad stuff.

I would say Apple rumours are in an especially confused state this year. There are quite low levels of certainty about things like timescale for a smart watch, the rumours about a television have been going for so many years that their credibility will remain shot unless something more concrete emerges, and initially confident reports about some kind of 'pro' iPad with larger screen recently wobbled in their confidence.

If they are to announce anything more significant than incremental computer hardware upgrades at this point in the year, I suppose my money would be on the more powerful version of the apple tv box that was rumoured recently. Or the smart watch, which I suppose I expect to be announced any day this year.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 20, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> I wish they'd hurry up and finishing copying Samsung's 5.7" screen and announce iPhone6


No no no. A huge screen would be bloody awful.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 21, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> I got an iPad Air yesterday. I can't believe the quality of the screen. I just keep browsing around in awe.



Got one recently the weight is as shocking as the iPhone 5S! And how snappy is the fucker??


----------



## RedDragon (Mar 21, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No no no. A huge screen would be bloody awful.


They'd still have the regular size option - I read a survey somewhere  which stated a significant number of users wanted a phone shoved into the iPad-mini.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 21, 2014)

Apple would be foolish not to copy Samsung's "make a phone of every size imaginable" line-up. It's been a massive success because, this might shound crazy, people want different sized phones for different sized hands and different situations


----------



## Sunray (Mar 21, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> They'd still have the regular size option - I read a survey somewhere  which stated a significant number of users wanted a phone shoved into the iPad-mini.



vaguely tempting, but just a bit too big to carry about like a phone.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 24, 2014)

I don't know if this article is of interest to anyone

Edit

Wrong article
http://www.cultofmac.com/271225/app...SZxx45RfFKRXrIa2c59gap1Z8#BZt2zmloqkSecRmT.99


----------



## Sunray (Apr 3, 2014)

Thats very interesting but privacy issues would mean it'd be switched off, making it a bit useless.

Just noticed the Apple WWDC keynote is on the 2nd of June.   Be interesting to see what Apple are making.


----------



## editor (Apr 3, 2014)

sim667 said:


> http://www.cultofmac.com/271225/app...SZxx45RfFKRXrIa2c59gap1Z8#BZt2zmloqkSecRmT.99


That title is classic fanboy hysteria, "How an Under-Appreciated iOS 7 Feature Will Change the World".

Change  the world, _my arse.   _


----------



## pesh (Apr 4, 2014)

sim667 said:


> http://www.cultofmac.com/271225/app...SZxx45RfFKRXrIa2c59gap1Z8#BZt2zmloqkSecRmT.99





sounds very interesting to me, with a lot more potential than smartwatches,  headsup displays and all the other stuff people seem to be interested in at the moment.


----------



## RedDragon (Apr 4, 2014)

I think it'll only change the world once it's copied by Samsung.

Interesting nonetheless.


----------



## editor (Apr 4, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> I think it'll only change the world once it's copied by Samsung.
> 
> Interesting nonetheless.


It's not even Apple's idea to copy.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 4, 2014)

I cant even remember what its about now, and i cant even look as its blocked at work


----------



## RedDragon (Apr 4, 2014)

editor said:


> It's not even Apple's idea to copy.


I'm not entirely sure what the concept is, boffins please explain, other than thinking of it as a messaging relay system using something like bluetooth, in which case it could have massive implications for people needing a free method of communication (in addition to the hardware).


----------



## editor (Apr 4, 2014)

sim667 said:


> I cant even remember what its about now, and i cant even look as its blocked at work


The tech was created by these people: https://opengarden.com/


> Fixing the mobile Internet. Together.
> More than 3M people use Open Garden today. By joining Open Garden, you are joining forces to make the Internet better, faster and more reliable – for everyone, including yourself. Open Garden allows all devices (including smart phones, tablets, laptops and “wearables”) to work together and find the best connections at any time. The more people use it, the better it gets


----------



## sim667 (Apr 4, 2014)

editor said:


> The tech was created by these people: https://opengarden.com/


 
Oh yeah I remember now.

Wait for the amount of stolen credit card details to go through the roof.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Apr 4, 2014)

Installed the app, thought it would be a way to have some sort of internet connectivity when in a area of poor coverage (but where there's still a reasonable density of people) but just saw a screen of scrolling inane chat and, although it may be coincidence, had a rather bad case of battery drain whilst I had it installed as well - deleted and all was well again.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 31, 2014)

Bump as WWDC 2014 is this Monday...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 2, 2014)

So, not many versions left until iOS and OS X merge then...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 2, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So, not many versions left until iOS and OS X merge then...


I don't think so. They're going for a consistent "feel" and data integration, but I got the impression they still see them as different products. It's about deepening the ecosystem, getting users to buy into more devices.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 2, 2014)

Posted on the other Apple thread but I think this is worth re-mentioning:

Swipe texting and 3rd party keyboards at last!







http://www.engadget.com/2014/06/02/apple-ios8-third-party-keyboards-swiftkey/

This has literally been my single biggest gripe with iOS.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 2, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So, not many versions left until iOS and OS X merge then...


Highly unlikely. Will stake my reputation (!) on it.


----------



## Bungle73 (Jun 2, 2014)

Looks like this going the first update that is not available to me (iPhone 4).

Edit: Actually, I'll have it on my iPad 2. Why iPad 2 and not iPhone 4?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 2, 2014)

Shazam integration with Siri. Not having to fire up that bloat crap everytime will be so much nicer.


----------



## editor (Jun 2, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> Posted on the other Apple thread but I think this is worth re-mentioning:
> 
> Swipe texting and 3rd party keyboards at last!
> 
> ...


They've finally caught up/copied Android. Three years later.


----------



## elbows (Jun 3, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Highly unlikely. Will stake my reputation (!) on it.



Indeed. Never say never, but certainly not for now. They didn't design that Mac Pro to then upset 'power users' by dumbing things down on the desktop.

If they want to mess around with products that sit somewhere between powerful x86 laptops and ARM tablets & phones, they can do that with new classes of hardware. And its certainly no surprise to find them unifying services and UI design where deemed appropriate. None of it implies an imminent or even not-so imminent merger of operating systems.


----------



## neonwilderness (Jun 3, 2014)

Nice to see they are going to make iCloud useful at last


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 3, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Highly unlikely. Will stake my reputation (!) on it.



Lol ok.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 3, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol ok.


In five years time, Apple will still sell desktop computers that run OSX and portable devices that run iOS. The two product lines will be differentiated by their input methods and typical workloads. It is highly likely to still be the case 10 years from now.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 4, 2014)

Crispy said:


> In five years time, Apple will still sell desktop computers that run OSX and portable devices that run iOS. The two product lines will be differentiated by their input methods and typical workloads. It is highly likely to still be the case *10 years from now*.



You can't predict 10 years into the future of technology.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 4, 2014)

Sunray said:
			
		

> You can't predict 10 years into the future of technology.



Jet packs?


----------



## neonwilderness (Jun 4, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Jet packs?


iJet


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2014)

Crispy said:


> In five years time, Apple will still sell desktop computers that run OSX and portable devices that run iOS. The two product lines will be differentiated by their input methods and typical workloads. It is highly likely to still be the case 10 years from now.



In five years time they'll have one OS and tablets, phones, wearables, and 'desktop' hardware. That's my bet.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> Shazam integration with Siri. Not having to fire up that bloat crap everytime will be so much nicer.



Agreed, the downside is I prefer SoundHound as that has better Spotify integration and is quicker at tune ID ime...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I don't think so. They're going for a consistent "feel" and data integration, but I got the impression they still see them as different products. It's about deepening the ecosystem, getting users to buy into more devices.



I think that's just a transition, they're rumoured to be working on using the same chipset in iOS devices in a MacBook Air, they're clearly tying everything together now they've woken up to the fact that they have to compete just like every other company so the logical step of ecosystem and tight integration is to remove the final barrier between the hardware: the operating system. 

I'm telling you, it'll happen within the next five years...


----------



## Crispy (Jun 7, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> In five years time they'll have one OS and tablets, phones, wearables, and 'desktop' hardware. That's my bet.


Not a chance. £10 to the server fund?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Not a chance. £10 to the server fund?



I'll give a £100 to the server fund if by this exact date in five years Apple don't have a single OS running all their hardware.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 7, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'll give a £100 to the server fund if by this exact date in five years Apple don't have a single OS running all their hardware.


I'm only putting a tenner in, but quoted for posterity 
I've put a reminder in my calendar for 2019


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2014)

Crispy said:


> I'm only putting a tenner in, but quoted for posterity
> I've put a reminder in my calendar for 2019


Where's your commitment and belief, man? Make it a grand. Go on!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2014)

Crispy said:


> I'm only putting a tenner in, but quoted for posterity
> I've put a reminder in my calendar for 2019



Lol ok, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is.


----------



## elbows (Jun 8, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I think that's just a transition, they're rumoured to be working on using the same chipset in iOS devices in a MacBook Air, they're clearly tying everything together now they've woken up to the fact that they have to compete just like every other company so the logical step of ecosystem and tight integration is to remove the final barrier between the hardware: the operating system.
> 
> I'm telling you, it'll happen within the next five years...



In what universe could we possibly think that Microsofts Windows 8 disaster would cause Apple to 'wake up' and stumble down broadly the same path?

I'm pretty sure they also like having 2 operating systems because that allows clear differentiation when it comes to marketing and setting price points. If your far more expensive laptop or desktop runs the same OS as cheaper tablets and phones, some of the justification for buying them is lost. And this is a company thats made a lot of money selling Apple laptops & desktops to people who wish to develop for iOS.

I think its becoming obvious that Apples vision of deep integration exists, but it doesn't require OS unification. Rather it simply requires unification of services, and wherever possible making the technologies that developers use to put things together as similar as possible on both OS's.

I consider Apple to be awake and on the ball this year for two reasons: They have a vision for harnessing the potential of 'the internet of things' by integrating them all in ways that could increase their usefulness. And they are doing lots of things to encourage developers, especially new developers, to be able to develop for their platforms. The swift language, continued work on higher level things like SpriteKit, SceneKit and now AVAudioEngine, along with a range of interesting Xcode tools, are really good and enough to get me to finally jump onboard. If they carry on at that rate then the only significant development barrier that will remain is having to buy hardware that runs OS X to develop, a situation that makes Apples wallet happy.


----------



## Quartz (Jun 10, 2014)

The problem:







The solution: iOS 8 now blocks casual location tracking.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 12, 2014)

I like that anti location tracking thing.


----------



## gabi (Jun 13, 2014)

Sunray said:


> You can't predict 10 years into the future of technology.



I can.

In ten years time Suzuki or whoever is flogging android devices will produce something called a 'laptop'. A miraculous combination of a screen and a keyboard. It'll change the fucking world.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 13, 2014)

gabi said:


> I can.
> 
> In ten years time Suzuki or whoever is flogging android devices will produce something called a 'laptop'. A miraculous combination of a screen and a keyboard. It'll change the fucking world.



Yeah right and we'll all be clones on jet bikes..


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2014)

I think its quite widely acknowledged that game controllers for iOS have been quite rubbish so far, with the retail price not being in tune with the quality for a start.

Apparently a slew of new controllers were on show at E3, and this one could be the best of the bunch.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 13, 2014)

Doesn't really matter while they're so badly supported


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 13, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Doesn't really matter while they're so badly supported



Spot on. Until Apple actually push gaming dev teams won't bother...


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Doesn't really matter while they're so badly supported



True, but thats a chicken and egg situation that can at least be slightly aided by having some decent controllers on offer.

I'm not suggesting that this on its own will be enough to escape the chicken and egg situation though.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2014)

It's certainly on its way, but if you're really impatient, there's a Chinese knock off already available, based on some of the 'leaked' possible new designs. 

Unlike most of the clickbait 'rumours' this thing actually exists, even if it is apparently running a modified version of Android! 



http://androidcommunity.com/iphone-6-clone-demo-leaks-running-on-android-kitkat-20140716/


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2014)




----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 16, 2014)

This is excellent news


----------



## magneze (Jul 16, 2014)

I've just wet myself.


----------



## belboid (Jul 16, 2014)

Love the music!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 16, 2014)

And so we kick of the new thread with a clone that we'll probably never see in the UK. 

If they do two sizes as has been rumored I wonder how many iphone fans who've told me how happy they are with the size of their devices will buy the bigger one?


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Jul 16, 2014)

What is point, clone phone? What is point?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 16, 2014)

All the rumours point to it being a bit bigger (4.7" instead of 4"), which is rubbish but probably just about OK to use. If they go over 5" I have zero interest in it.


----------



## editor (Jul 16, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> All the rumours point to it being a bit bigger (4.7" instead of 4"), which is rubbish but probably just about OK to use. If they go over 5" I have zero interest in it.


4" to 4.7" is more than a "bit bigger", to be honest.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 16, 2014)

editor said:


> 4" to 4.7" is more than a "bit bigger", to be honest.


Well, yeah. It kinda looks inevitable that they will increase it but because of that the rest of it would have to be significantly better to get me to upgrade. 4" is plenty big enough for all the tasks I use it for.


----------



## elbows (Jul 16, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, yeah. It kinda looks inevitable that they will increase it but because of that the rest of it would have to be significantly better to get me to upgrade. 4" is plenty big enough for all the tasks I use it for.



Which one have you got at the moment?

The Galaxy Nexus that I am hoping to ditch has decided to make my final months with it extra torturous by becoming somewhat sluggish and slow to respond, and I haven't got the time to find out why at the moment. The minimum I am waiting for before deciding what my next phone will be is the iPhone announcement, but as per my blithering on some other thread, I also feel like I should wait to see whats going to happen with Apple on the smart watch front before deciding on my next phone.


----------



## Supine (Jul 16, 2014)

Technically, wouldn't the iPhone be a clone of the clone if it was released second?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 16, 2014)

elbows said:


> Which one have you got at the moment?
> 
> The Galaxy Nexus that I am hoping to ditch has decided to make my final months with it extra torturous by becoming somewhat sluggish and slow to respond, and I haven't got the time to find out why at the moment. The minimum I am waiting for before deciding what my next phone will be is the iPhone announcement, but as per my blithering on some other thread, I also feel like I should wait to see whats going to happen with Apple on the smart watch front before deciding on my next phone.


5s.


----------



## Winot (Jul 17, 2014)

belboid said:


> Love the music!



It sounds like the music you find playing on the TV when you first check into a hotel room, accompanied by a series of photos of the hotel restaurant, lobby etc.


----------



## dweller (Jul 17, 2014)

woo hooo wave those suicide nets!!!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 21, 2014)

The worlds easiest bet: new iPhone in the autumn.


----------



## miniGMgoit (Aug 15, 2014)

Lots of rumors about a September release. I currently have a 4, not a 4s but a 4. It's so old now and clunky and worn out. I nearly upgraded today but thought I'd wait till I got home and do some research first. I think I'll just wait until the 6 comes out now.


----------



## editor (Aug 15, 2014)

They're going to invent bigger screen phones like no one HAS EVER SEEN BEFORE!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 17, 2014)

miniGMgoit said:


> Lots of rumors about a September release. I currently have a 4, not a 4s but a 4. It's so old now and clunky and worn out. I nearly upgraded today but thought I'd wait till I got home and do some research first. I think I'll just wait until the 6 comes out now.



It'll have a bigger screen, they'll talk about it. Everyone who doesn't like Apple will have a fit, everyone that does will have a fit. The majority of normal humans won't know what's going and won't be bothered they don't...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 17, 2014)

It'll be thinner, lighter, faster and run iOS8.  I can't see what else it could do other than that tbh


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 17, 2014)

I have a 5s, and really, it's a shade too big. I have to shift it around in my hand to get my thumb up to top left etc, when using one-handed. 

If they do go two-sizes I'll be happy to go for the smaller... Unless...

With the 5s/5c launch, I'd have gone for a 5c, but the cheaper one has rounded edges and so can't be stood on its side.   I liked my old 4s balancing on its side to act as a clock etc, so I ended up getting the 5s for its nice flat edges.


----------



## Sunray (Aug 18, 2014)

miniGMgoit said:


> Lots of rumors about a September release. I currently have a 4, not a 4s but a 4. It's so old now and clunky and worn out. I nearly upgraded today but thought I'd wait till I got home and do some research first. I think I'll just wait until the 6 comes out now.



I'm still very happy with my 4, 4 years old in July.  Does everything I want it to do very well.  Could be a bit faster but that's going to cost me 500 quid.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2014)

Sunray said:


> I'm still very happy with my 4, 4 years old in July.  Does everything I want it to do very well.  Could be a bit faster but that's going to cost me 500 quid.


It won't run ios8 when it comes out though...


----------



## Sunray (Aug 18, 2014)

A good thing as It'd run too slowly.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2014)

Sunray said:


> A good thing as It'd run too slowly.


Not tempted to upgrade at all then?


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 18, 2014)

Got a mate who works at Apple, he and a lot of his London-based colleagues have just flown out to spend 3 weeks in Cupertino.

I asked him what they were doing with a sly smile and the knobjockey still wouldn't tell me for fear of being fired


----------



## Sunray (Aug 18, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Not tempted to upgrade at all then?



The only thing is the speed, faster would be nice, but mine is not going to change unless Apple put a slow down loop in the code.  And its not like I'm waiting ages.

The seamless interface for connectivity between devices is very nice but its a single feature.  That'd be like buying a new phone because it can send pictures in messages.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2014)

Sunray said:


> The only thing is the speed, faster would be nice, but mine is not going to change unless Apple put a slow down loop in the code.  And its not like I'm waiting ages.
> 
> The seamless interface for connectivity between devices is very nice but its a single feature.  That'd be like buying a new phone because it can send pictures in messages.


There's lots in ios8/Yosemite that looks good, but I can't see myself ditching my 5s any time soon, unless they have something amazingly new in the 6. Which they won't


----------



## Sunray (Aug 18, 2014)

Will see if the feature set is compelling enough for me to upgrade.


----------



## xenon (Aug 18, 2014)

I can't upgrade til next year anyway. But I don't like this apparent feature of iOS 8 whereby you can just use Siri with out pressing the home button. I might skip it on my Iphone 5.

So basically it's listening all the time. Obviously, it's a mobile phone by it's nature it tracks your location. All the privacy leaking apps, software bugs, warnings about possibility of remotely activating the microphone etc. OK, yes, the strongly privacy concerned aren't likely to use an Iphone. But actually listening all the time in case you utter "Hey Siri." That's fucked up.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2014)

Just turn it off, it's hardly the end of the world.


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2014)

If the iPhone 6 turns out to have - as expected - a larger screen I can't wait to hear the justification of upgraders who had previously been _adamant_ that anything larger than the current iPhone screen would be a terrible idea.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2014)

editor said:


> If the iPhone 6 turns out to have - as expected - a larger screen I can't wait to hear the justification of upgraders who had previously been _adamant_ that anything larger than the current iPhone screen would be a terrible idea.


I don't want a bigger screen. But I do want an iPhone. So as and when I do want/need to upgrade I won't have much choice


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I don't want a bigger screen. But I do want an iPhone. So as and when I do want/need to upgrade I won't have much choice


I doubt very much that Apple will only offer a large screen model.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2014)

editor said:


> I doubt very much that Apple will only offer a large screen model.


Well, if all the rumors are true the smallest option will be 4.7". Which is still an increase from the perfectly fine 4" it is now.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2014)

I also hope that if they do release a larger one it is identical in spec other than battery life. Having to chose between performance and size would be fucking shite.


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I also hope that if they do release a larger one it is identical in spec other than battery life. Having to chose between performance and size would be fucking shite.


Ah, so that'll be your excuse. A minor spec improvement


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2014)

editor said:


> Ah, so that'll be your excuse. A minor spec improvement


Nah, it'd have to be something significant. And I can't even think of what that could possibly be. Everything I run on my 5s runs fast and loads instantly. So can't see much need for extra speed. I don't want the bigger screen. So, not much left really...


----------



## xenon (Aug 18, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just turn it off, it's hardly the end of the world.



Assuming it has the option to. I like using Siri. But I don't want it listening with out me explicitly using it.


----------



## pesh (Aug 19, 2014)

editor said:


> If the iPhone 6 turns out to have - as expected - a larger screen I can't wait to hear the justification of upgraders who had previously been _adamant_ that anything larger than the current iPhone screen would be a terrible idea.


i don't particularly like or want a massive phone, but after 18 months with a Samsung S3 i'd buy the new iPhone even if it was the size of a brick. shut up and take my money, let me back in your walled garden. Thanks Android, i really wanted to like you but it's been fucking horrible.


----------



## elbows (Aug 19, 2014)

I'll have been stuck with android for almost 3 years by the time I get an iPhone, because Apple didn't make the iPhone large enough last year so I decided to wait. And of course my phone decided to be extra crap this year, just to add to the pain.


----------



## souljacker (Aug 19, 2014)

pesh said:


> i don't particularly like or want a massive phone, but after 18 months with a Samsung S3 i'd buy the new iPhone even if it was the size of a brick. shut up and take my money, let me back in your walled garden. Thanks Android, i really wanted to like you but it's been fucking horrible.



Don't let samsung put you off. They are wankers and their phones are shit. Unaltered Android on a nexus is the best os out there at the moment.


----------



## Mojofilter (Aug 20, 2014)

pesh said:


> i don't particularly like or want a massive phone, but after 18 months with a Samsung S3 i'd buy the new iPhone even if it was the size of a brick. shut up and take my money, let me back in your walled garden. Thanks Android, i really wanted to like you but it's been fucking horrible.



The S3 is easily the worst smartphone I've ever owned - I still marginally prefer Android though. 

I'm not a fan boy and quite like Apple products, I just don't think that they do anything to justify the extra cost. 
The best phone Iver ever owned is my current one - HTC One, closely followed by iPhone 4 (at the time). 

All I'm saying is that writing off Android because you don't like your S3 is like writing off Windows because you had a particular laptop that was shite.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 20, 2014)

souljacker said:


> Don't let samsung put you off. They are wankers and their phones are shit. Unaltered Android on a nexus is the best os out there at the moment.



Still give you the option of removable batteries and the ability to add lots of memory cheaply. Construction could be better, but all my phones go straight in a solid case so less of an issue. 

A launcher like Nova makes them seem nicer if you don't like the idea of rooting.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 20, 2014)

pesh said:


> i don't particularly like or want a massive phone, but after 18 months with a Samsung S3 i'd buy the new iPhone even if it was the size of a brick. shut up and take my money, let me back in your walled garden. Thanks Android, i really wanted to like you but it's been fucking horrible.


 


Mojofilter said:


> The S3 is easily the worst smartphone I've ever owned - I still marginally prefer Android though.


 
I've just traded up from an S3 to an S5 purely because the S3 was the best phone I've owned, it literally did everything I could think of that was required.

Genuinely curious, why didn't you get on with it?


----------



## Mojofilter (Aug 20, 2014)

The Octagon said:


> I've just traded up from an S3 to an S5 purely because the S3 was the best phone I've owned, it literally did everything I could think of that was required.
> 
> Genuinely curious, why didn't you get on with it?



Mainly the lag - I found that very frustrating and it seemed to crash quite a lot.


----------



## RedDragon (Aug 20, 2014)

Here's what's believed to be the mute switch, volume  buttons and power button of the iP6







Calm yourselves! 

MacRumours


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 20, 2014)

Is there a torrent client for an iPhone yet?
Or a good SSH client?


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2014)

Mojofilter said:


> Mainly the lag - I found that very frustrating and it seemed to crash quite a lot.


A hard reset usually fixes that. I'll amost certainly get a Nexus one next time. I'm fed up with all the shite that Samsung burden their phones with.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 20, 2014)

Ah, I never had a lag or crash on mine in the 2 and a bit years I had it, that would be annoying tho.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2014)

I'm having trouble recalling the last time my S4 crashed to be honest. Android appears to be generally more stable anyway.


----------



## Mojofilter (Aug 20, 2014)

editor said:


> A hard reset usually fixes that. I'll amost certainly get a Nexus one next time. I'm fed up with all the shite that Samsung burden their phones with.



Ah well, it's gone now... 

I think they've gotten better recently - they were discussing it on the CNET podcast and the my new Galaxy Tab S 8.4 doesn't seem to suffer too badly - it's still there but doesn't seem to slow it down. Plus the eye detection thing actually seems to work this time around.


----------



## TitanSound (Aug 20, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Here's what's believed to be the mute switch, volume  buttons and power button of the iP6
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*Rubs thighs*


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 20, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm having trouble recalling the last time my S4 crashed to be honest. Android appears to be generally more stable anyway.


That's interesting, coz my iPhone has never crashed. Ever. The only time I've even rebooted it is when I've had to due to installing OS upgrades. Whereas my last Android handset was a buggy, crash-tastic heap of crap. I guess a lot of it might be down to particular (shit) apps, if you can avoid them you'll be OK on either platform...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 20, 2014)

TitanSound said:


> *Rubs thighs*


OMG LOOK AT THE MUTE SWITCH IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME AS BEFORE!!!!!


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> OMG LOOK AT THE MUTE SWITCH IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME AS BEFORE!!!!!


Let me write seven 'rumour' articles about that right now.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 20, 2014)

editor said:


> Let me write seven 'rumour' articles about that right now.


That mute switch will change _everything_.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That's interesting, coz my iPhone has never crashed. Ever. The only time I've even rebooted it is when I've had to due to installing OS upgrades. Whereas my last Android handset was a buggy, crash-tastic heap of crap. I guess a lot of it might be down to particular (shit) apps, if you can avoid them you'll be OK on either platform...


Crashes are so rare on my phone that it's not something I ever really think about, but individual experiences may be different. My iPhone 3 was a crock of fucking shit, for example.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 20, 2014)

The Octagon said:


> I've just traded up from an S3 to an S5 purely because the S3 was the best phone I've owned, it literally did everything I could think of that was required.
> 
> Genuinely curious, why didn't you get on with it?



Mine was so fucking slow at connecting to the internet that in the end I didn't bother. My fault for working in such a remote location as WC2 I guess. For shits Stella and I used to race to open pages, her iphone was always at least 4 times faster - same network too. Fuck Samsung, (phones that is, TV's and laptops are pretty good).


----------



## pesh (Aug 20, 2014)

yep, i hate the S3 for most of the above reasons and plenty more, crashing, slow and getting slower, SD card corrupting / needing to be reseated, worse reception on the same network in the same locations to my old phone, the last update seems to have halved the life of my battery, fucking Kies, last week it decided to wipe all my playlists, the headphone output level is far lower than pretty much anything else i've ever owned. i'm sure there are more things i've forgotten.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 20, 2014)

I've seen loads of android phones crash and reboot. I don't recall seeing an iPhone do that.
The majoirty of my friends have iPhones, too


----------



## pesh (Aug 20, 2014)

oh yeah, it's so slow accessing the camera function i've basically given up using it to take pics spontaneously.
we did a comparison between an iPhone 4s and my s3 to get into the camera app from the lock screen, his was under 2 seconds mine was just under 20 seconds.


----------



## xenon (Aug 20, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> Is there a torrent client for an iPhone yet?
> Or a good SSH client?



Don't know about torrenting but I use Prompt as an SSH client now and then. Seems alright to me. Prefer typing on a proper keyboard but set up loads of three letter aliases for when I use Prompt. Granted not doing anything major, just looking at logs on my own stuff.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 20, 2014)

There are no torrent clients for non-jailbroken iphones.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 20, 2014)

Crispy said:


> There are no torrent clients for non-jailbroken iphones.


thats annoying.
I do use it on my phone occasionally.

Do they allow other video players? I've seen apple products struggle to play certain video in the past.


----------



## peterkro (Aug 20, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> thats annoying.
> I do use it on my phone occasionally.
> 
> Do they allow other video players? I've seen apple products struggle to play certain video in the past.


VLC there are probably others but VLC will play most things and is free.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 20, 2014)

peterkro said:


> VLC there are probably others but VLC will play most things and is free.


good stuff.


----------



## elbows (Aug 20, 2014)

VLC on iOS isn't perfect (it does crash for me on occasion) but it does work nicely for stuff like watching films that are just sitting as normal files on a NAS device on my local network (rather than being streamed or served in a special way).


----------



## elbows (Aug 20, 2014)

As for iOS crashes, they are rare enough that people freak out at work when their iPhone freezes for the first time and they don't know how to switch it off/restart it (e.g. by holding sleep and home buttons), but just common enough that I've had to show people this on several occasions within recent memory.


----------



## moon (Aug 20, 2014)

I recently got my first iphone, the 5c in green..
Its soo cute, and works perfectly.. So pleased i didnt get the lumia1020 i had originally intended to buy.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 21, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It'll be thinner, lighter, faster and run iOS8.  I can't see what else it could do other than that tbh



Indeed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 21, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, if all the rumors are true the smallest option will be 4.7". Which is still an increase from the perfectly fine 4" it is now.



It's a false narrative the only people who go on about iPhone users not wanting bigger screens are android users.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 21, 2014)

can I copy files on to an iPhone? or do they have to be specific media types, via fucking iTunes?


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 21, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's a false narrative the only people who go on about iPhone users not wanting bigger screens are android users.


the over growing android screen is one of the main reasons I am thinking about becoming an iPhone user.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 21, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> can I copy files on to an iPhone? or do they have to be specific media types, via fucking iTunes?


Have a guess


----------



## elbows (Aug 21, 2014)

Although iTunes was the original method for copying files to/from iOS devices, its not the only way and not the only issue.

The real issue is that iOS doesn't expose the filesystem, and apps have their own sandboxes for files. So when you copy files to the device, where you put them determines which single app is going to be able to open them. There may be some slight exceptions to this, but thats mostly how I understand it.

Cloud stuff is the main way to deal with this issue with as little pain as possible, whether it be iCloud, dropbox, some other service or your own NAS on your local network. But you need to make sure whatever app you want to use to open that sort of file is compatible with whatever cloud/storage option you are using.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 21, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Have a guess





elbows said:


> Although iTunes was the original method for copying files to/from iOS devices, its not the only way and not the only issue.
> 
> The real issue is that iOS doesn't expose the filesystem, and apps have their own sandboxes for files. So when you copy files to the device, where you put them determines which single app is going to be able to open them. There may be some slight exceptions to this, but thats mostly how I understand it.
> 
> Cloud stuff is the main way to deal with this issue with as little pain as possible, whether it be iCloud, dropbox, some other service or your own NAS on your local network. But you need to make sure whatever app you want to use to open that sort of file is compatible with whatever cloud/storage option you are using.


So I can't save an attachment from an email, and use the files in it?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 21, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> So I can't save an attachment from an email, and use the files in it?


If they are files that an app on your phone understands, you can open them in the app. (In fact the mail client natively reads a lot of stuff anyway, so you can read word docs for example without having to open anything else.) The file is imported into the app and saved via whatever method the app supports. Cloud drive apps often claim to understand everything so that you can save it to whatever drive it is.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 21, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> If they are files that an app on your phone understands, you can open them in the app. (In fact the mail client natively reads a lot of stuff anyway, so you can read word docs for example without having to open anything else.) The file is imported into the app and saved via whatever method the app supports. Cloud drive apps often claim to understand everything so that you can save it to whatever drive it is.


hmm. doesn't sound right.
I often get emailed zip files full of all sorts of config files, keys, and binaries that need to be sent elsewhere by several different methods. 
Not the sort of file that has any identification to it that links it to any specific app.


----------



## xenon (Aug 21, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> So I can't save an attachment from an email, and use the files in it?



You can, sorta.

I have a shit load of ebooks on my NAS and either email them to my phone or have an FTP client on it to download. As long as you have an app on the phone that supports the file format, you can open it in it. I haven't bothered trying sending MP3s this way. There's an app for my NAS for streaming.

Itunes on Windows is fucking awful. People say it's better on Mac. I don't care, I hate using software that wants to manage my media and won't let me transfer with simple drag and drop from the desktop OS. SO I rarely bother syncing.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 21, 2014)

xenon said:


> You can, sorta.
> 
> I have a shit load of ebooks on my NAS and either email them to my phone or have an FTP client on it to download. As long as you have an app on the phone that supports the file format, you can open it in it. I haven't bothered trying sending MP3s this way. There's an app for my NAS for streaming.
> 
> Itunes on Windows is fucking awful. People say it's better on Mac. I don't care, I hate using software that wants to manage my media and won't let me transfer with simple drag and drop from the desktop OS. SO I rarely bother syncing.


what if the file doesn't have an extension or a standard format, but I want to then sftp it somewhere, or copy it to an smb share?


----------



## xenon (Aug 21, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> hmm. doesn't sound right.
> I often get emailed zip files full of all sorts of config files, keys, and binaries that need to be sent elsewhere by several different methods.
> Not the sort of file that has any identification to it that links it to any specific app.




I haven't tried this TBF. But maybe using Dropbox, it might be possible to email arbitrary filetypes as attachments from it. Just guessing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 21, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> hmm. doesn't sound right.
> I often get emailed zip files full of all sorts of config files, keys, and binaries that need to be sent elsewhere by several different methods.
> Not the sort of file that has any identification to it that links it to any specific app.


In that case you would need an app that reads zip files (of which there are lots). That would open the zip file and you could then do stuff with the contents with other apps, like emailing them.

Depending on the details it might be a huge pain in the arse. This is one of both the pros and cons of iOS, the heavy sandboxing. Terrific for security obviously but file access is basically by passing files from one app to another. A lot of apps use cloud drive APIs to bypass this, so you could save a document to Dropbox and then open it from an app.


----------



## xenon (Aug 21, 2014)

I use FTP2Go as an FTP client. I'll try downloading and uploading a zip file later.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 21, 2014)

no, I don't want to ftp a zip file, or email the contents of one.

most likely i would want to transfer an individual file from a compressed archive, using sftp or a smb share. 

It seems like iOS can't do the things I need. 
Which is a shame as they are nice well built phones. (and aren't stupidly huge).


----------



## xenon (Aug 21, 2014)

Just seen Fridge's reply.

I'm being thick, can't work out how to upload with FTP2Go. Can download and unzip files to the phone though. But yeah, drop box type app probably more straight forward.

e2a The app I'm using does FTPS and SFTP too. Searching for a samba 
client brings up a free file viewer app but CBA to try it ATM.

A proper Linux phone would be good. Shame that Ubuntu one never got off the ground.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 21, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> no, I don't want to ftp a zip file, or email the contents of one.
> 
> most likely i would want to transfer an individual file from a compressed archive, using sftp or a smb share.
> 
> ...


You can certainly do that. Open the zip file with an unzipper app. Send one of the component files with an sftp app. I expect some sftp apps can do the unzipping themselves.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 21, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You can certainly do that. Open the zip file with an unzipper app. Send one of the component files with an sftp app. I expect some sftp apps can do the unzipping themselves.


i'm not sure how that works. 
does the file magically appear in the local file system that the sftp client has access to?


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 21, 2014)

i'm going to have to borrow one and have a play around.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 21, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> i'm not sure how that works.
> does the file magically appear in the local file system that the sftp client has access to?


It's all passing files between apps, that's the paradigm. I get a zip file in the mail app. I pass that file to the unzipper app which unzips it. I pass a file from the zip to the sftp app or the word processor or whatever.


----------



## xenon (Aug 21, 2014)

I think as elbows says, the apps are sandboxed. When I download stuff using FTP, those files are visible within the FTP app. If I tap on one and the filetype is recognised, one of the options is to open it in xyz, another is send by email.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 21, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's all passing files between apps, that's the paradigm. I get a zip file in the mail app. I pass that file to the unzipper app which unzips it. I pass a file from the zip to the sftp app or the word processor or whatever.


makes sense.
its a lot more hoops to jump through. but i can see why.


----------



## xenon (Aug 21, 2014)

Argh cross posting.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 21, 2014)

xenon said:


> I think as elbows says, the apps are sandboxed. When I download stuff using FTP, those files are visible within the FTP app. If I tap on one and the filetype is recognised, one of the options is to open it in xyz, another is send by email.


so you only get a list of specific apps, not all?
surely the sftp app will be available for all files?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 21, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> makes sense.
> its a lot more hoops to jump through. but i can see why.


It's generally possible to do pretty much anything, just it may take longer sometimes than if you didn't have sandboxing.

Personally I happily admit that my main business use of my iPhone is saying "fuck off I'll do it when I'm back in the office / when I have time / when it isn't the bloody weekend / just fuck off". I rarely need to even switch apps to do that.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 21, 2014)

Oh, and telling people I'll be late for work because "the trains are terrible"


----------



## xenon (Aug 21, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> so you only get a list of specific apps, not all?
> surely the sftp app will be available for all files?




The FTP app I use can download anything to it's own download space. If the file's a pdf, I can open it in the ebook app I use. If it's a zip file, I can unzip it within the FTP app. If it's a filetype that I don't have an app for, it just sits in the download space but you can email or upload it elsewhere.

It's not like a regular OS where you can open or send any file to any program and have complete access to the filesystem. The sharing between apps such as above, has to be written into them.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 21, 2014)

xenon said:


> You can, sorta.
> 
> I have a shit load of ebooks on my NAS and either email them to my phone or have an FTP client on it to download. As long as you have an app on the phone that supports the file format, you can open it in it. I haven't bothered trying sending MP3s this way. There's an app for my NAS for streaming.
> 
> Itunes on Windows is fucking awful. People say it's better on Mac. I don't care, I hate using software that wants to manage my media and won't let me transfer with simple drag and drop from the desktop OS. SO I rarely bother syncing.


Thing is, iTunes is drag and drop. If I want a tune on my phone I just drag it into a a playlist. Job done.


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2014)

I can't wait for everything to be changed again.


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Thing is, iTunes is drag and drop. If I want a tune on my phone I just drag it into a a playlist. Job done.


iTunes was the worst piece of music software I have ever installed in my life.


----------



## xenon (Aug 21, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Thing is, iTunes is drag and drop. If I want a tune on my phone I just drag it into a a playlist. Job done.




I spose. But I hate using Itunes. I find it just gets in the way.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 21, 2014)

I haven't used iTunes to transfer files to apps on my phone for... well actually I can't remember the last time. Maybe some huge movie file to go to VLC.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 21, 2014)

editor said:


> iTunes was the worst piece of music software I have ever installed in my life.


That's because you made the mistake of putting it on a PC 

It's a lot better on a mac. It does desperately need a complete overhaul though IMO.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 22, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That's interesting, coz my iPhone has never crashed. Ever. The only time I've even rebooted it is when I've had to due to installing OS upgrades. Whereas my last Android handset was a buggy, crash-tastic heap of crap. I guess a lot of it might be down to particular (shit) apps, if you can avoid them you'll be OK on either platform...



My first iPhone (3) froze very occasionally.  Maybe three times in two or so years.  Got a bit buggy at the end, occasionally closing apps I was using.  

My 4s, otoh, was a total lemon after about 15 months.  It didn't just crash, it wiped the whole thing to factory settings every few weeks.  I was counting down the days until upgrade.  

My 5s is splendid, so far (6 months).  No crashes, lags...


----------



## souljacker (Aug 22, 2014)

Anyone who slags off iTunes should be thankful they don't need to use Kies.


----------



## editor (Aug 22, 2014)

souljacker said:


> Anyone who slags off iTunes should be thankful they don't need to use Kies.


Good news is that you don't have to use Kies. You don't even have to install it.


----------



## souljacker (Aug 22, 2014)

true


----------



## Mojofilter (Aug 24, 2014)

Isn't the same true of iTunes though? What do you actually have to use it to do? 

Can't you use something like Google Music for transferring music and Dropbox / Google Drive etc... for everything else?

I don't think that I've physically connected my phone to computer with a cable since my first iPhone (3G).

Edited to add - just remembered that you can sync with Wifi. Not done that either... Never had the need.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 27, 2014)

souljacker said:


> Anyone who slags off iTunes should be thankful they don't need to use Kies.


 
Or winamp. Now that was shit.


----------



## elbows (Aug 28, 2014)

editor said:


> I can't wait for everything to be changed again.



The long wait for you to actually get an Apple product launch and subsequent hype that actually matches your gripes may well be over this year.

Because lets face it, beyond Apples own 'one liner' marketing claims, the main sell and the gushing from the tech media etc has in recent years not really come close to the 'giddy years' that wound you up so much.

If, as the latest rumours suggest, something about their new wearable device(s) will actually feature in the September 9th Apple launch thing, then you'll certainly have plenty of horrible bullshit to get your teeth into.

And even if that doesn't happen, there are signs they will try to make a very big deal about HomeKit and HealthKit, which coupled with the size changes to the iPhone and the prospect of NFC finally being included will lead to more than enough hype.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 28, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Or winamp. Now that was shit.


It really whipped the llama's ass though. Allegedly. Nothing was proven.


----------



## Fez909 (Aug 28, 2014)

Winamp was a great piece of software.


----------



## elbows (Aug 28, 2014)

Its all relative to what else was around at the time. In the infancy of mp3's winamp seemed great to me. And since I moved to a mac a decade ago, I never really had to go through the pain of itunes sucking on windows, or working out what other app might be a suitable alternative to itunes or winamp.


----------



## Fez909 (Aug 28, 2014)

elbows said:


> Its all relative to what else was around at the time. In the infancy of mp3's winamp seemed great to me. And since I moved to a mac a decade ago, I never really had to go through the pain of itunes sucking on windows, or working out what other app might be a suitable alternative to itunes or winamp.


What's the difference between iTunes on Windows and OS X?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 28, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> What's the difference between iTunes on Windows and OS X?



It's not buggy as fuck and Mac users complain less about being forced to install quick time. It may have got better in the last six years since it was on one my machines.


----------



## Fez909 (Aug 28, 2014)

Global Stoner said:


> It's not buggy as fuck and Mac users complain less about being forced to install quick time. It may have got better in the last six years since it was on one my machines.


The complaining thing is nonsense, but fair enough on the bugs. I always thought it was iTunes' 'managing' your files that people objected to and never understood why that made Window's version worse.

Cheers.


----------



## slainte (Aug 30, 2014)

Hmm itunes..amazing that over 10 Years they (Apple) have'nt really got the fact that people whom can afford their products also can afford to buy NAS systems..its utter shit with an NAS even if you tell it not to organise your music it cannot help itself but try. 
Completely messed up the directory. Now I use google music installed the app to upload from the itunes libary and now just use that..as it does'nt try to overwrite all the bloody time my file structure etc. its in the cloud and I can listen from there.
And 25000 songs free...apple go f**k yourself with itunes match..that waay expensive if you have a decent large music collection.


----------



## xenon (Aug 30, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Or winamp. Now that was shit.




Still use it, still like it. I don't use Library functions or any of that crap.


----------



## xenon (Aug 30, 2014)

Global Stoner said:


> It's not buggy as fuck and Mac users complain less about being forced to install quick time. It may have got better in the last six years since it was on one my machines.



It hasn't really. It seems slightly less sluggish but I avoid using it as far as possible.


----------



## xenon (Aug 30, 2014)

slainte said:


> Hmm itunes..amazing that over 10 Years they (Apple) have'nt really got the fact that people whom can afford their products also can afford to buy NAS systems..its utter shit with an NAS even if you tell it not to organise your music it cannot help itself but try.
> Completely messed up the directory. Now I use google music installed the app to upload from the itunes libary and now just use that..as it does'nt try to overwrite all the bloody time my file structure etc. its in the cloud and I can listen from there.
> And 25000 songs free...apple go f**k yourself with itunes match..that waay expensive if you have a decent large music collection.



What NAS do you use? I use the Synology DS and Iphone app. Works well for me. I only want to tstream stuff, browse folders etc. Don't need my media being organised for me.


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## slainte (Aug 30, 2014)

I have a qnap TS419P it has an itunes server on it its okay but doesn't serve out the video media but there is other apps I can download onto it for media sharing. Basically transferring as much audio and video as I can to it and reduce the requirements for space for saving stuff.
Qmusic inbuilt is fine..anyway I would have thought with apple partnering and selling thunderbolt NAS as well that they would have some direct functionality with NAS per see to stream stuff from...but no....


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 2, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...iphone-6-visa-mastercard-amex-mobile-payments



> The three big credit card companies – MasterCard, Visa and American Express – have signed deals with Apple and its iPhone 6 contactless payments plan, reports indicate.
> 
> Apple plans to turn its smartphone into a mobile wallet capable of paying for goods using a similar system to the contactless payment technology built into most British credit and debit cards, which allows users to pay for goods up to £20 without having to swipe, insert the card into a reader or enter a pin.
> 
> The partnership with the big three card companies, as reported separately by Bloomberg and Recode, would allow Apple to use its large database of 800m credit card details attached to iTunes accounts for music, app, books and video purchases.



This is the sort of thing that would actually make me more interested in an upgrade. I assume they'd incorporate the fingerprint reader for the security.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> This is the sort of thing that would actually make me more interested in an upgrade. I assume they'd incorporate the fingerprint reader for the security.


I think I'd rather use my card myself and save the battery life of my phone (and not have to pull it out when I'm listening to music which can be a faff with the cables). I certainly wouldn't see it as a reason to upgrade. I doubt if it would use the fingerprint reader because the current card system doesn't requite any additional security.


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## joustmaster (Sep 2, 2014)

My android phone has a contactless payment option. I haven't tried to set it up yet though.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 2, 2014)

editor said:


> I think I'd rather use my card myself and save the battery life of my phone (and not have to pull it out when I'm listening to music which can be a faff with the cables). I certainly wouldn't see it as a reason to upgrade. I doubt if it would use the fingerprint reader because the current card system doesn't requite any additional security.


The battery life would be a key part of the success of any system, yeah. I never listen to music on my phone when out and about though so that's not an issue for me.

Even if the current system doesn't use any further security I'd be surprised if this (supposed) payment system doesn't use it. By using the extra security of a fingerprint as part of the marketing they might be able to convince more people to use it.

A decent mobile payment system would be pretty nifty imo. I already use my phone for banking, flight tickets and hotel vouchers in passbook etc. Making it a "wallet" seems a natural progression from that.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The battery life would be a key part of the success of any system, yeah. I never listen to music on my phone when out and about though so that's not an issue for me.
> 
> Even if the current system doesn't use any further security I'd be surprised if this (supposed) payment system doesn't use it. By using the extra security of a fingerprint as part of the marketing they might be able to convince more people to use it.
> 
> A decent mobile payment system would be pretty nifty imo. I already use my phone for banking, flight tickets and hotel vouchers in passbook etc. Making it a "wallet" seems a natural progression from that.


It wouldn't exactly be very convenient if you have to first get the phone out of your pocket and then swipe your fingerprint over it every time you want to make a small payment.


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## Winot (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> It wouldn't exactly be very convenient if you have to first get the phone out of your pocket and then swipe your fingerprint over it every time you want to make a small payment.



No worse than getting out your wallet.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 3, 2014)

Why would you need to scan your fingerprint?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> It wouldn't exactly be very convenient if you have to first get the phone out of your pocket and then swipe your fingerprint over it every time you want to make a small payment.


You don't have to "swipe" your finger. You press the home button. That's it. This is why the Apple fingerprint reader is good and all the other ones are shit.

And how is taking your phone out of your pocket any different to getting your wallet out? It's arguably a lot quicker as I have something like 5 cards to go though in my wallet...


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## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

I'm considering iphone after the shit I've had with my s3. I was actually planning on not upgrading  and getting a sim only contract. Cheers Samsung.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> My android phone has a contactless payment option. I haven't tried to set it up yet though.



That's cos nobody supports it!


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

Global Stoner said:


> That's cos nobody supports it!


Exactly. There were ways of buying mp3's before iTunes, there were smartphones before the iPhone etc. But nobody used them.

Of course, this could all turn out to be the usual rumour mill bullshit


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> You don't have to "swipe" your finger. You press the home button. That's it. This is why the Apple fingerprint reader is good and all the other ones are shit.
> 
> And how is taking your phone out of your pocket any different to getting your wallet out? It's arguably a lot quicker as I have something like 5 cards to go though in my wallet...


Have you ever actually used a contactless card? You don't have to "go through" any cards. You just put the wallet next to the reader, like you can do with an Oyster card.

Sure seems easier than getting your phone out (and battling with your headphone lead) and then having to press the fingerprint scanner as you swipe it.

To suggest that this feature is worth upgrading an entire phone for really is rather daft. The bank will give you a suitable card for free and it's not like I use my contactless card that many times a day anyway, Even if my phone did it, I'd still use the card.


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## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Have you ever actually used a contactless card? You don't have to "go through" any cards. You just put the wallet next to the reader, like you can do with an Oyster card.
> 
> Sure seems easier than getting your phone out (and battling with your headphone lead) and then having to press the fingerprint scanner as you swipe it.
> 
> To suggest that this feature is worth upgrading an entire phone for really is rather daft. The bank will give you a suitable card for free and it's not like I use my contactless card that many times a day anyway, Even if my phone did it, I'd still use the card.


A lot of people have more than one contactless card. Which makes using your phone easier.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 3, 2014)

Have they confirmed you have to scan your fingerprint everytime you want to use it, or is it just speculation?


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## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

Global Stoner said:


> That's cos nobody supports it!


I think a few different suppliers support it. 
But nothing thats leading the way yet.


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## pesh (Sep 3, 2014)

I've stuck my oyster card in my phone case to avoid the contactless clusterfuck that is my wallet


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Have you ever actually used a contactless card? You don't have to "go through" any cards. You just put the wallet next to the reader, like you can do with an Oyster card.


Fine if you have one card. No so good if you have several.



> Sure seems easier than getting your phone out (and battling with your headphone lead) and then having to press the fingerprint scanner as you swipe it.


No headphones here. And, as I've said, all you have to do is press the home button. Hardly difficult.



> To suggest that this feature is worth upgrading an entire phone for really is rather daft.


I'm not saying this feature alone would be a reason to upgrade. Merely that it is something that would make me consider it. Add in some of the other cool stuff Apple seem to heading towards (the home automation things, the integration with Yosemite etc) and it all looks quite nice.

But, lets face it, Apple could release a phone that gave you £5 every time you made a call and you still wouldn't like it


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> But, lets face it, Apple could release a phone that gave you £5 every time you made a call and you still wouldn't like it


The actual fact is that you're just using a piss weak excuse to justify spending £600. Do you actually use contactless cards? How often do you use them? You are aware that you don't even have to take them out of your wallet? In fact you don't even have to take the wallet out of the bag if you can't be arsed.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> A lot of people have more than one contactless card. Which makes using your phone easier.


Oh, you've already been using your phone for this then? How often do you use it?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> The actual fact is that you're just using a piss weak excuse to justify spending £600.


Oh ffs. I've said it would be a feature that would interest me. Nothing more.



> Do you actually use contactless cards? How often do you use them? You are aware that you don't even have to take them out of your wallet? In fact you don't even have to take the wallet out of the bag if you can't be arsed.


If you can explain to me how a shop is meant to know which card in my wallet I wish to use without me taking it out then I'm all ears.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Oh, you've already been using your phone for this then? How often do you use it?




It's perfectly clear what was meant by that post.


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## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Oh, you've already been using your phone for this then? How often do you use it?


No. I don't use my phone. as mentioned above, its not really rolled out fully yet.

But getting a card out of my wallet is obviously more effort than just slipping my phone out of my pocket.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

Just what would Apple have to do to stop you doing this? You've been vocal enough before about their lack of innovation etc. So. Here we have a (potential) feature that is genuinely new and could have quite an impact on how people use their phones. And still you knock it. It's ridiculous...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> I think a few different suppliers support it.
> But nothing thats leading the way yet.



It's like contactless cards. I've had one for many years, but it's only recently that I've been able to find places to use it other then drive through McDonald's (which is great use of the tech)


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## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

Global Stoner said:


> It's like contactless cards. I've had one for many years, but it's only recently that I've been able to find places to use it other then drive through McDonald's (which is great use of the tech)


In that London... I've started using mine more than the traditional pin way of using it.

So much so that I look a right bellend when i just hold my card against an old fashioned POS device and the person at the till has to tell me how to insert my card.


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## sim667 (Sep 3, 2014)

Men on the internet in arguing about phones shocker


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> No. I don't use my phone. as mentioned above, its not really rolled out fully yet.


So how do you know it's going to be easier?


joustmaster said:


> But getting a card out of my wallet is obviously more effort than just slipping my phone out of my pocket.


Don't you understand how this works? You don't have to take the card of your wallet. In fact, if your jacket is undone you don't even need to take the wallet out of your jacket! How can that be easier that pulling out your phone and - according to bees - then finding the fingerprint scanner and pressing that?

Don't get me wrong though - I think phones with contactless  tech will be _really_ useful things indeed - but I was responding to bee's claims that bolting the tech on to a phone will suddenly provide any kind of compelling reason to upgrade an entire phone.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just what would Apple have to do to stop you doing this? You've been vocal enough before about their lack of innovation etc. So. Here we have a (potential) feature that is genuinely new and could have quite an impact on how people use their phones. And still you knock it. It's ridiculous...



It's not new. My last two phones have had it.

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/12/visa-certifies-nfc-equipped-android-blackberry-smartphones-for/

Though I must add, I always thought it would never take off until Apple 'invented' nfc paymments.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just what would Apple have to do to stop you doing this? You've been vocal enough before about their lack of innovation etc. So. Here we have a (potential) feature that is genuinely new and could have quite an impact on how people use their phones. And still you knock it. It's ridiculous...


I'm not knocking it, but I was knocking the way you're using it as a justification to upgrade.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Don't you understand how this works? You don't have to take the card of your wallet. In fact, if your jacket is undone you don't even need to take the wallet out of your jacket!


SOME OF US HAVE MORE THAN ONE FUCKING CARD.

Fucks sake, how many times?


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm not knocking it, but I was knocking the way you're using it as a justification to upgrade.


How else do you consider whether to upgrade or not, other than looking at new features


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> SOME OF US HAVE MORE THAN ONE FUCKING CARD.
> 
> Fucks sake, how many times?


How often do you use these fucking cards? What are they? And how do you know that the iPhone solution will be any easier given that IT HASN'T BEEN ACTUALLY ANNOUNCED YET?



beesonthewhatnow said:


> http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...iphone-6-visa-mastercard-amex-mobile-payments
> This is the sort of thing that would actually make me more interested in an upgrade. I assume they'd incorporate the fingerprint reader for the security.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> So how do you know it's going to be easier?
> Don't you understand how this works? You don't have to take the card of your wallet. In fact, if your jacket is undone you don't even need to take the wallet out of your jacket! How can that be easier that pulling out your phone and - according to bees - then finding the fingerprint scanner and pressing that?
> 
> Don't get me wrong though - I think phones with contactless  tech will be _really_ useful things indeed - but I was responding to bee's claims that bolting the tech on to a phone will suddenly provide any kind of compelling reason to upgrade an entire phone.


I've just looked in my wallet.
I have 5 contactless cards in it.


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## pesh (Sep 3, 2014)

from Wiki



> Card clash
> When two or more contactless cards are in close proximity the system may have difficulty determining which card is intended to be used. The card-reader may charge the incorrect card or reject both.[11]



if you have more than one contactless card, you have to take your wallet out, select the correct card and so on...


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> I've just looked in my wallet.
> I have 5 contactless cards in it.


Use them all often, do you?


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

pesh said:


> if you have more than one card, you have to take your wallet out, select the correct card and so on...


How might the iPhone solution automatically select which card you wish to use, I wonder?


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## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Use them all often, do you?


Yes.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> Yes.


Contactlessly?


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## pesh (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> How might the iPhone solution automatically select which card you wish to use, I wonder?


thats not what you're arguing about, you were going on about not even removing your wallet from your jacket while everyone else was saying they have more than 1 card so they do have to. i think it relates to some point scoring thing a page or so back about wallets or phones being the quickest to get out of a pocket or something.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> How often do you use these fucking cards? What are they? And how do you know that the iPhone solution will be any easier given that IT HASN'T BEEN ACTUALLY ANNOUNCED YET?


I don't, I'm speculating. It's what we spend half our days doing in this forum, remember?


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## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Contactlessly?


yes. except for the work credit card. but that has the ability.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I don't, I'm speculating. It's what we spend half our days doing in this forum, remember?


Ah, OK, then.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

this argument is so fucking pointless.
its like arguing with a religious nutter who isn't willing to accept simple basic points.

taking a wallet out of your pocket and taking a card out of the wallet is easier than taking a phone out of your pocket.
if you can't accept that then we are going nowhere.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

The security if I lost my phone would be another plus - if I lose my wallet I have to ring round god knows how many card providers and cancel them. Lose my phone all I have to do is remotely lock it.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

Whenever I've paid with a contactless card the bar person takes the card and holds it to the reader. I then have to ask them for a receipt; fuck letting it work on a trust basis.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> taking a wallet out of your pocket and taking a card out of the wallet is easier than taking a phone out of your pocket.


You haven't yet explained how the phone is going to automatically know which card of the many you wish to use for a particular transaction. Perhaps - inbetween throwing around unpleasant accusations of "religious nutters" - you might explain how this might work, and then elaborate on how you can be so sure that one system is better than the other, given that the other DOESN'T PRESENTLY EXIST and HASN'T EVEN BEEN ANNOUNCED.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

I imagine card selection would be done with the earth shatteringly innovative method of pressing a pretty picture with your finger. Maybe it could even have a "default" option to save you having to do this for the most used one.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> You haven't yet explained how the phone is going to automatically know which card of the many you wish to use for a particular transaction. Perhaps - inbetween throwing around unpleasant accusations of "religious nutters" - you might explain how this might work, and then elaborate on how you can be so sure that one system is better than the other, given that the other DOESN'T PRESENTLY EXIST and HASN'T EVEN BEEN ANNOUNCED.


you're an idiot.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I imagine card selection would be done with the earth shatteringly innovative method of pressing a pretty picture with your finger. Maybe it could even have a "default" option to save you having to do this for the most used one.


So, you've got to take your phone out of your pocket, turn it on, select the app, select the card you wish to use, and then do the fingerprint authentication before you can make the payment?   Speedy!


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> you're an idiot.


If you're unable to construct a decent argument, best zip it, because your personal abuse tantrums do you  no favours.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Whenever I've paid with a contactless card the bar person takes the card and holds it to the reader. I then have to ask them for a receipt; fuck letting it work on a trust basis.


I have to say that's never happened with me, but then the only time I've ever used it is at WH Smith and a handful of other outlets. Curiously, Superdrug took away the contactless option a while ago.


----------



## gabi (Sep 3, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Men on the internet in arguing about phones shocker



It really is fucking weird. It's like some sort of warped version of Top Gear.

They're phones, guys. Phones. I actually wonder how often some of the people on these threads would actually ever require the use of a phone.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 3, 2014)

Steve Jobs was a cunt


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I have to say that's never happened with me, but then the only time I've ever used it is at WH Smith and a handful of other outlets. Curiously, Superdrug took away the contactless option a while ago.


I've only really used it in pubs  Not sure if it'd work whilst still in the wallet as I have various work related fobs in there too.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

gabi said:


> It really is fucking weird. It's like some sort of warped version of Top Gear.
> 
> They're phones, guys. Phones. I actually wonder how often some of the people on these threads would actually ever require the use of a phone.


It's not like you ever get really obsessed about anything, and go on and on and on about it here, is it?


----------



## magneze (Sep 3, 2014)

A phone (any phone, not just a fruity one) could actually sort out the mess of contactless payments. As people have said, they have wallets full of contactless cards. Oyster gates now take contactless. Double charging and confused readers abound. Meanwhile, the users have to sort through their cards to find the one they want to actually use for contactless payments. No-ones really thought it through, the consumer just has to live with the mess at the moment.

If you could just set up your phone with a single contactless payment provider then it'd be shit-loads more convenient than the current system. Assuming that there was no need to fingerprint auth or unlock at all. Get our your phone, bonk. You're done.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> If you're unable to construct a decent argument, best zip it, because your personal abuse tantrums do you  no favours.


"you're an idiot" is the most sensible argument that could possibly derived from your posts, i'm afraid.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

gabi said:


> They're phones, guys. Phones. I actually wonder how often some of the people on these threads would actually ever require the use of a phone.


My phone is:

A phone
My diary / calendar
My email
The remote control for my home TV/media player
My satnav
My daily newspaper
My boarding pass when I get on a plane
My banking organiser
A remote control for various mixing desks
My to do lists
A data store for various documents
A portable music player
My alarm clock
The controller for my NAS box



And god knows what else. They stopped being merely "phones" quite a long time ago. Mine is an essential part of how I live and work nowadays.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

magneze said:


> If you could just set up your phone with a single contactless payment provider then it'd be shit-loads more convenient than the current system. Assuming that there was no need to fingerprint auth or unlock at all. Get our your phone, bonk. You're done.


Where it would really work is if it also sorted out loyalty cards as well. This was touted years ago, but has never really happened. But for it to be actually useful it can't involved fucking about with fingerprint readers as that defeats the whole point of contactless payments (although there's still the tricky problem of finding yourself truly fucked if your phone runs out of juice miles from home).

Of course, where it would work even better is if smartwatches used the tech. I'd much rather tap the reader with a watch than have to get out my phone.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> So, you've got to take your phone out of your pocket, turn it on, select the app, select the card you wish to use, and then do the fingerprint authentication before you can make the payment?   Speedy!


I'd be willing to bet I could do all that a hell of a lot quicker than the time it takes me to find stuff in my wallet.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

gabi said:


> It really is fucking weird. It's like some sort of warped version of Top Gear.
> 
> They're phones, guys. Phones. I actually wonder how often some of the people on these threads would actually ever require the use of a phone.


people aren't really talking about a traditional phone. they are talking about a new payment method. its quite an interesting development.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> "you're an idiot" is the most sensible argument that could possibly derived from your posts, i'm afraid.


Stop now please as your personal abuse is disrupting this thread.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd be willing to bet I could do all that a hell of a lot quicker than the time it takes me to find stuff in my wallet.


That's a bit of silly argument. You may have the world's biggest wallet for all I know, but that won't be the same for everyone else. Some people prefer to keep their phones deep in their bags, for example. Crazy, I know, but there you go.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Where it would really work is if it also sorted out loyalty cards as well. This was touted years ago, but has never really happened. But for it to be actually useful it can't involved fucking about with fingerprint readers as that defeats the whole point of contactless payments (although there's still the tricky problem of finding yourself truly fucked if your phone runs out of juice miles from home).
> 
> Of course, where it would work even better is if smartwatches used the tech. I'd much rather tap the reader with a watch than have to get out my phone.


ARGH. You don't have to "fuck about" with the iPhone fingerprint reader. That's why it is so good. You press the home button. That's it. This is why every other reader out there has failed, they add another step to things and in some cases require you to change your grip etc (HTC even put one on the back ffs)

Using it on an iPhone requires you to do nothing that you weren't already doing. It is a brilliant implementation of the idea.

As for the smart watch thing - well, it's not like we're lacking in those rumours either


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

Why would you keep your phone somewhere you can't answer it quickly?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> That's a bit of silly argument. You may have the world's biggest wallet for all I know, but that won't be the same for everyone else. Some people prefer to keep their phones deep in their bags, for example. Crazy, I know, but there you go.


Quite. Which brings us back to my saying this is a feature that *I* would be interested in.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Stop now please as your personal abuse is disrupting this thread.


nonsense. you're the one acting like a bellend with your ridiculous claims.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> ARGH. You don't have to "fuck about" with the iPhone fingerprint reader. That's why it is so good. You press the home button. That's it. This is why every other reader out there has failed, they add another step to things and in some cases require you to change your grip etc (HTC even put one on the back ffs)
> 
> Using it on an iPhone requires you to do nothing that you weren't already doing. It is a brilliant implementation of the idea.


It's a shit idea for contactless payments. And you're getting a little carried away with your iLove.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Where it would really work is if it also sorted out loyalty cards as well


There's already the passbook app in iOS. It works really well, but there isn't exactly a huge range of companies using it yet. British Airways, a couple of hotel chains and Starbucks are the only ones I have in there.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> nonsense. you're the one acting like a bellend with your ridiculous claims.


Stop now or be banned.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 3, 2014)

The Octagon said:


> I've just traded up from an S3 to an S5 purely because the S3 was the best phone I've owned, it literally did everything I could think of that was required.
> 
> Genuinely curious, why didn't you get on with it?


Me too. The s3 is a great device. Obviously you need to root and update the Rom to something without all the crap, but after that, the quality of the hardware shines through.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> My phone is:
> 
> A phone
> My diary / calendar
> ...


 
And porn on the move.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There's already the passbook app in iOS. It works really well, but there isn't exactly a huge range of companies using it yet. British Airways, a couple of hotel chains and Starbucks are the only ones I have in there.


Google had the same thing and that failed to get much adhesion for the same reason. It really has to be an 'everything' solution for it to have any chance of working, otherwise you end up still carrying around a mix of cards and your phone.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> It's a shit idea for contactless payments. And you're getting a little carried away with your iLove.


From your own link:



> Touch ID works better than the Tab S scanner. It's quicker and more responsive; you just need to tap a finger to the sensor to unlock, as opposed to swiping your finger. Touch ID also works in any orientation, so you can hold your device sideways or upside down and it still works.


 

The rest of the review is outdated as the fingerprint reader has been opened up for iOS8.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 3, 2014)

Im actually thinking about fucking off having a smartphone. It depresses me how bloody dependent I am on it now.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Stop now or be banned.


a pitiful way to deal with an argument, and poor way of running a forum.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

The Octagon said:


> I've just traded up from an S3 to an S5 purely because the S3 was the best phone I've owned, it literally did everything I could think of that was required.
> 
> Genuinely curious, why didn't you get on with it?


There's an issue where it switches itself off and flashes its logo until it decides it wants to be on again which can last anywhere between a few seconds and many hours. Apart from that its great.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Google had the same thing and that failed to get much adhesion for the same reason. It really has to be an 'everything' solution for it to have any chance of working, otherwise you end up still carrying around a mix of cards and your phone.


Which is exactly why I'm looking forward to see what/how/if the apple system is. A unified, secure digital wallet would be a genuinely innovative and useful thing.

The possibilities are actually really cool - my phone knows where I am thanks to the gps/wifi. So it could know if I have a store/loyalty card for a particular location. It would also know the card I usually/always use there. So when I come to pay they are already preselected. All I have to do is take out my phone, turn it on ad click the pay app. Money goes from my account, loyalty points are added. Would be great.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> From your own link:
> 
> 
> 
> The rest of the review is outdated as the fingerprint reader has been opened up for iOS8.


I'm not going to bother selectively quoting from that article and you should really ask yourself why you've just done that.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> a pitiful way to deal with an argument, and poor way of running a forum.


Given the example you're presenting, I don't care about your opinion on how to run a forum.

All you're doing is ignoring any points raised and just posting up nasty abuse. It's disruptive and unpleasant, so stop now.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 3, 2014)

sim667 said:


> And porn on the move.


The train/bus wank was a tiresome affair before the advent of mobile internet.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

Urban runs on unpleasantness and abuse though.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm not going to bother selectively quoting from that article and you should really ask yourself why you've just done that.


It's the conclusion. The synopsis. The summary. The point.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Given the example you're presenting, I don't care about your opinion on how to run a forum.
> 
> All you're doing is ignoring any points raised and just posting up nasty abuse. It's disruptive and unpleasant, so stop now.


I think i've been pretty clear on my points. if anything you have been purposely obtuse with points presented to you.
your anti apple agenda is really showing.
and to be clear - I am not a fan of apple.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 3, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Urban runs on unpleasantness and abuse though.


That thread about people having no friends was illuminating. So many urbans were angry loners.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's the conclusion. The synopsis. The summary. The point.


It also says a lot more and gives various benefits to the Samsung one which it describes as being rather good. But whatever.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> you're anti apple agenda is really showing.
> and to be clear - I am not a fan of apple.


Editor's anti apple agenda is funny. Mainly because he denies it. Getting upset about it is daft.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> I think i've been pretty clear on my points. if anything you have been purposely obtuse with points presented to you.
> you're anti apple agenda is really showing.
> and to be clear - I am not a fan of apple.


Stop making posts containing nothing other than random unprovoked abuse and we'll all get on fine.
Keep it up and you'll be banned. Same applies to all posters here.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

Idaho said:


> Editor's anti apple agenda is funny. Mainly because he denies it. Getting upset about it is daft.


OMG! Anti-Apple?! BURN HIM!!!


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

Idaho said:


> Editor's anti apple agenda is funny. Mainly because he denies it. Getting upset about it is daft.


i'm not upset, just exasperated.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

Idaho said:


> That thread about people having no friends was illuminating. So many urbans were angry loners.


Link?


----------



## Idaho (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> OMG! Anti-Apple?! BURN HIM!!!


I am openly anti apple. I can't stand their whole technology-as-premium-priced-fashion bullshit.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 3, 2014)

Someone saying you've got an anti apple agenda is abuse? Well fuck me sideways.

I hate sardines, if one of you said I had an anti sardine agenda I wouldn't consider it abusive.

And to be honest ed even if you don't have an "anti apple agenda", it honestly really does come across like you do sometimes.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

Idaho said:


> I am openly anti apple. I can't stand their whole technology-as-premium-priced-fashion bullshit.


I can't stand that either. But their technology-that-works-with-me-having-to-think-about-it bit is great.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Stop making posts containing nothing other than random unprovoked abuse and we'll all get on fine.
> Keep it up and you'll be banned. Same applies to all posters here.


i think my posts are relevant to the discussion. they are about your posts being nonsense.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

sim667 said:


> And to be honest ed even if you don't have an "anti apple agenda", it honestly really does come across like you do sometimes.


I am truly ashamed of myself sometimes.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I can't stand that either. But their technology-that-works-with-me-having-to-think-about-it bit is great.



I don't mind thinking


----------



## sim667 (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I am truly ashamed of myself sometimes.


 
No need to be sarcy now....


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> i think my posts are relevant. they are about your posts being nonsense.


Just in case this isn't sinking in: if you carry on posting up posts containing nothing other than unprovoked personal abuse you will be banned. There's no reason why I should have to put up with such constant abuse.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 3, 2014)




----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Just in case this isn't sinking in: if you carry on posting up posts containing nothing other than unprovoked personal abuse you will be banned. There's no reason why I should have to put up with such constant abuse.


to be clear - am i not allowed to say that i think your posts are nonsense? given that I have already posted a couple of posts detailing why.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> to be clear - am i not allowed to say that i think your posts are nonsense? given that I have already posted a couple of posts detailing why.


That's not what you said though, is it?


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

Crispy said:


>



Always good for a stir, eh?! Well done!


----------



## Winot (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Where it would really work is if it also sorted out loyalty cards as well. This was touted years ago, but has never really happened.



Also membership cards, which would be pretty easy (they could presumably just be added to Passbook on iPhones). My wallet is clogged up with membership cards for galleries and the like.


----------



## Idaho (Sep 3, 2014)

Why do the worst arguments on urban occur in threads about irrelevant shit?


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

Idaho said:


> Why do the worst arguments on urban occur in threads about irrelevant shit?


Because it's urban! It's what we do.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> That's not what you said though, is it?


pretty much..
my previous post was saying just that. then you quoted that and threatened to ban me.

just want to be clear on where you stand.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> pretty much..
> my previous post was saying just that. then you quoted that and threatened to ban me.
> 
> just want to be clear on where you stand.


I think you need to go back and follow the thread, and note it all started when you started hurling around personal abuse. I asked you to stop, you carried on. I asked you to stop again, and you carried on. And again. Only then did I threaten to ban you if you continued, as I would with any poster acting in such a disruptive and unpleasant manner.

I hope that makes it nice and clear for you.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I think you need to go back and follow the thread, and note it all started when you started hurling around personal abuse. I asked you to stop, you carried on. I asked you to stop again, and you carried on. And again. Only then did I threaten to ban you if you continued, as I would with any poster acting in such a disruptive and unpleasant manner.
> 
> I hope that makes it nice and clear for you.


so I'm not allowed to say your posts are nonsense?


----------



## Crispy (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Always good for a stir, eh?! Well done!


Oh excuse me for interrupting this serious and sober debate


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)




----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> so I'm not allowed to say your posts are nonsense?


By fuck, you're dishonest.
Example #1.  There's loads more.


joustmaster said:


> you're an idiot.


etc etc.
The rest are all there and it's not the first time you've just thrown around abuse.
Anyway. I'm not arguing any more.


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 3, 2014)

When I saw the number of pages on this thread had shot up I thought there might be something interesting happening 

It should be interesting to see what is actually announced next week. If they release a version with a larger screen straight away I might be tempted to upgrade.


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> By fuck, you're dishonest.
> Example #1.  There's loads more.
> etc etc.
> The rest are all there and it's not the first time you've just thrown around abuse.
> Anyway. I'm not arguing any more.


So I can't call you an idiot, but I can say your posts are nonsense? 

Do these rules apply to everyone? Can I still call Stanley a dick head?


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 3, 2014)

neonwilderness said:


> When I saw the number of pages on this thread had shot up I thought there might be something interesting happening


Welcome to pre-launch woffle week


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Welcome to pre-launch woffle week


urban75: reinventing pre-launch woffle week.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 3, 2014)

Why don't you both just compare dicks at the next offline and have done with it?


----------



## gabi (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> Stop now or be banned.



That's fucking nuts. What's wrong with you? 

Someone disagrees with you so you threaten to pull rank? It's a PHONE.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

gabi said:


> Someone disagrees with you so you threaten to pull rank? It's a PHONE.


That's not what happened so sssch.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Why don't you both just compare dicks at the next offline and have done with it?


I can see you're hoping to get some extra bunfight mileage here, but I've moved on, sorry!

It's a good 8" by the way.


----------



## Winot (Sep 3, 2014)

The rumour is that dicks are going to come in two sizes.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

Have any idiots started queuing yet?


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

The one that comes first will be released prematurely.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 3, 2014)

editor said:


> I can see you're hoping to get some extra bunfight mileage here, but I've moved on, sorry!
> 
> It's a good 8" by the way.



Not really, it was simply a crass solution to how you could realistically put an end to the digital willy waving.


----------



## elbows (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Have any idiots started queuing yet?



Given that there is often a fair old delay between official announcement and product availability, even the idiots aren't quite ready to get out their pavement tents just yet.

On the other hand the preaching from editor about what factors should make a particular individual keen to upgrade their phone seems to have started early this iPhone season. How tedious and predictable, as is me pointing this out, and the response it will likely generate. 

So now I will attempt to repent by speculating wildly about a 'large structure' that Apple are said to be constructing next to the building where the Sep 9th event will be held. Given a probably emphasis on HomeKit, I wonder if they've mocked up a 'house of the future, today!' so they can demonstrate all sorts of wacky smart/couch potato possibilities.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

How are iPhones on the tethering and battery life front? If crap on either I'll stick with Samsung's infuriating idiosyncrasies.


----------



## elbows (Sep 3, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> How are iPhones on the tethering and battery life front? If crap on either I'll stick with Samsung's infuriating idiosyncrasies.



Probably need to discuss specific models and use-cases to do a proper comparison of battery life.

Its also historically tended to vary a bit depending on iOS version. Especially in the period immediately after a new major iOS version comes out, there usually seems to be some proportion of users who are unlucky enough to be suffering from a bug in the new version that makes their battery experience different to how it used to be. Such talk usually goes away after a while, presumably due to bugs getting squashed or dodgy hardware getting replaced by Apple.

One area where things are changing over time is when it comes to rogue apps that suck battery too much in the background. Historically Apples approach was to limit multitasking to not really be true multitasking at all, whereas the likes of Google tend to tackle the issue by giving users good tools to monitor which of their apps or phone hardware elements has been consuming their power the most over time. Apple are steadily moving towards this approach too now.


----------



## elbows (Sep 3, 2014)

elbows said:


> Given that there is often a fair old delay between official announcement and product availability, even the idiots aren't quite ready to get out their pavement tents just yet.



I underestimated the idiots. Although to be fair they have a range of alternative motives for being there, don't think that anyone who just really wants a new iPhone is there yet.

http://www.macrumors.com/2014/09/03/campers-waiting-for-iphone-6/


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 3, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> How are iPhones on the tethering and battery life front? If crap on either I'll stick with Samsung's infuriating idiosyncrasies.


Battery life for me on a 5s is one day. Always have to charge it overnight but very rarely need a top up during the day. Tethering is fine, just depends on your data plan.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

elbows said:


> On the other hand the preaching from editor about what factors should make a particular individual keen to upgrade their phone seems to have started early this iPhone season.


Yes. This was definitely me, earlier.


----------



## elbows (Sep 3, 2014)

That image doesn't like being embedded, I had to open it in another window to see it, preacher man


----------



## xenon (Sep 3, 2014)

Missed some pages here. I eschewed the contactless card when mine came up for renewal. Bit of security paranoia. I'm not gonna wave my phone around to buy stuff either. It's not for me. Or rather, that isn't something I'd choose to upgrade to an Iphone 6 for.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

elbows said:


> That image doesn't like being embedded, I had to open it in another window to see it, preacher man


Always worth a click, I reckon. 



Back on topic:


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Battery life for me on a 5s is one day. Always have to charge it overnight but very rarely need a top up during the day. Tethering is fine, just depends on your data plan.


My data plan is currently ridiculous money a month (I jumped on 4g too quickly) so I can't envisage anything being worse. I do tend to hammer battery. The plus side of Samsung is you can buy third party beast batteries (that are good for about 3 months) the downside is they may have contributed to the grief I've been getting.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> My data plan is currently ridiculous money a month (I jumped on 4g too quickly) so I can't envisage anything being worse. I do tend to hammer battery. The plus side of Samsung is you can buy third party beast batteries (that are good for about 3 months) the downside is they may have contributed to the grief I've been getting.


I've got a pile of cheapo batteries (some Samsung/some Anker) and they all seem pretty good. The good thing is that they're so small I can just leave one in my back pocket if I'm out for a long day/night.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

Ive never bought second batteries  for starters I only really get the opportunity to recharge one once a day. My beast battery that ran for three days solid even when hammered was good for a few months. I suppose the downside of apple is neither of those options are available, however good or bad they prove to be.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

I am forgetting about the shit side of apple though. A book I've paid for for my oh's daughter won't download as the cloud is full (with daft photos and videos she took) so I need to 'sort' storage which presumably means paying a monthly fee that can be filled with more crap. Give me sd cards please.


----------



## xenon (Sep 3, 2014)

I've got one of those Igo charger things in my bag. Though the charge on that doesn't last long itself. Otherwise I borrow a USB socket somewhere. But yeah, I think most smart phone owners would want improved battery life over some new nische feature.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2014)

It's because they want to give you powerful hand held computers in a sleek aerodynamic package. I'm with reality here. I want battery life so give me the brick version please. I don't give a shit what I look like on a weekend in the Slug and Lettuce.


----------



## xenon (Sep 4, 2014)

Yeah I don't need my Iphone to be thinner. It's in a shell case anyway. A few mil thicker for increased battery size would be a fair trade off in a future model


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Ive never bought second batteries  for starters I only really get the opportunity to recharge one once a day. My beast battery that ran for three days solid even when hammered was good for a few months. I suppose the downside of apple is neither of those options are available, however good or bad they prove to be.


I got myself one of these bad boys to charge up spare batteries, easy peasy, like.


Spoiler: A pic of a charger


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 4, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Have any idiots started queuing yet?



yep...

_Campers waiting outside the 5th Avenue Apple Store, via CNBC_






http://www.macrumors.com/2014/09/03/campers-waiting-for-iphone-6/

twats


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

xenon said:


> Yeah I don't need my Iphone to be thinner. It's in a shell case anyway. A few mil thicker for increased battery size would be a fair trade off in a future model


I think most normal people would prefer a slightly thicker phone for a longer battery life but then fanboys can't cream their pants into a frothy fountain of man juice over the fact that their new expensive phone is - OMG! - 0.01" thinner than its rival/previous model .


----------



## gabi (Sep 4, 2014)

tbf, users of other phones get quite needlessly pumped about other brands of phones being launched. 

i managed to lose my samsung galaxy over the weekend. pissed off coz it set me back a fair wedge a year ago, but it was pretty shit to use. i barely used it anyway i guess as there's wifi pretty much everywhere here so i use the ipad. any recommendations for a bog standard, cheap phone? doesnt even need to be 'smart'.


----------



## gabi (Sep 4, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> yep...
> 
> _Campers waiting outside the 5th Avenue Apple Store, via CNBC_
> 
> ...



6 days ahead of its release? those guys are gonna get *really* sick of each other. I'm sick of them just looking at them.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 4, 2014)

gabi said:


> tbf, users of other phones get quite needlessly pumped about other brands of phones being launched.
> 
> i managed to lose my samsung galaxy over the weekend. pissed off coz it set me back a fair wedge a year ago, but it was pretty shit to use. i barely used it anyway i guess as there's wifi pretty much everywhere here so i use the ipad. any recommendations for a bog standard, cheap phone? doesnt even need to be 'smart'.


Moto G


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 4, 2014)

gabi said:


> 6 days ahead of its release? those guys are gonna get *really* sick of each other. I'm sick of them just looking at them.



Well with rumours suggesting that the actual release date could be anywhere between 6 to 10 days after the announcement on the 9th, that could mean half a month camped out on 5th Ave. What a bunch of idiots


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 4, 2014)

I was in NY outside that store on the day of the first iphone release.. the lines stretched back for blocks all the way down past Madison Ave. There was actually a guy selling his space for $5 grand and had turned down an offer of $4 grand. For an iPhone 1


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2014)

gabi said:


> tbf, users of other phones get quite needlessly pumped about other brands of phones being launched.
> 
> i managed to lose my samsung galaxy over the weekend. pissed off coz it set me back a fair wedge a year ago, but it was pretty shit to use. i barely used it anyway i guess as there's wifi pretty much everywhere here so i use the ipad. any recommendations for a bog standard, cheap phone? doesnt even need to be 'smart'.


Moto G. Incredible value.
http://www.trustedreviews.com/motorola-moto-g_Mobile-Phone_review

Or even cheaper: Moto E. Both are just as capable of everyday phone functions as an iPhone/Samsung/HTC/whatever. 
http://www.trustedreviews.com/motorola-moto-e_Mobile-Phone_review


----------



## Crispy (Sep 4, 2014)

gabi said:


> tbf, users of other phones get quite needlessly pumped about other brands of phones being launched.
> 
> i managed to lose my samsung galaxy over the weekend. pissed off coz it set me back a fair wedge a year ago, but it was pretty shit to use. i barely used it anyway i guess as there's wifi pretty much everywhere here so i use the ipad. any recommendations for a bog standard, cheap phone? doesnt even need to be 'smart'.


Any old Nokia, eg. the 106. Makes calls. Sends texts. Ten quid.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 4, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Any old Nokia, eg. the 106. Makes calls. Sends texts. Ten quid.


I bought one of them when I broke my Nexus recently. Battery lasts a week


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

If this is a fake video, it's the best ever fake video. 



> The video was uploaded on Saturday 6 September, though the recording date is not given. While there have been a number of leaks of parts of the forthcoming iPhones over the summer, the video showing a functioning phone is one of the first showing it running iOS 8 – recognisable by the presence of the Health app icon in the main screen, a “predictive text” keyboard and a timer on the camera for taking selfies.
> 
> A number of manufacturers in China’s Shenzhen area make good copies of iPhones but load them with “skinned” versions of Google’s Android that have giveaway flaws in their icons and fonts. This model however functions smoothly, especially with the “static” fingerprint unlocking of TouchID where the finger is placed on the home button. No other manufacturer uses the same method for unlocking
> http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...arge-screened-phone-running-ios-8-and-touchid





Looks like one of many current Android phones then.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> Looks like one of many current Android phones then.


Yep. Poor old Apple, reduced to copying Android.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 9, 2014)

That camera jutting out is very un-Apple, but I guess if they've made the thing bigger then they can flatten the battery out and get the World's Thinnest Smartphone* award again.

*at thinnest point.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 9, 2014)

Back on the contactless card thing... I temped for Barclaycard many years ago and had no access to the net. Out of sheer boardem I ended up reading things on their intranet, totally unrelated to what I did.

One thing I read that strikes true for me is that most people will realise they've lost a phone far quicker then a wallet.

If my Samsung could have as good a finger print reader as an Apple, I'd quite like to do contactless that way. Choose from the list of Cards and with an added layer of security. Plus I could lose/forget my wallet and still be able to pay for stuff.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep. Poor old Apple, reduced to copying Android.


They have certainly copied Android on some features, just like Android has copied Apple on some features. I do hope you're not going to go into some weird denial about that because that would be really daft.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> That camera jutting out is very un-Apple, but I guess if they've made the thing bigger then they can flatten the battery out and get the World's Thinnest Smartphone* award again.
> 
> *at thinnest point.


I don't usually bother with these "OMG LEAKED VIDEO!" but this one does look very convincing indeed.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 9, 2014)

editor said:


> I don't usually bother with these "OMG LEAKED VIDEO!" but this one does look very convincing indeed.


I agree. I think it's genuine.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> I agree. I think it's genuine.


The touch ID would be pretty difficult to fake, so yeah, seems to be legit.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Sep 11, 2014)




----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 11, 2014)

I do love how sad and pathetic people who hate apple and love apple get over every release. Each year both groups drool and gnash their teeth in equal measure ready to trot out the same tired old arguments.


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2014)

Waiting for the o2 online shop to come back so I can pre-order. Got really tempted by the larger version but I think I'll have to play it safe and go for the smaller one, despite the additional draw of optical image stabilisation for the camera on the larger one.

Given the rapid advances over a number of years in smartphone tech, I'm quite pleased with myself for managing to get by with just 2 different phones in the last 6 years. Wonder how long I can make this one last.


----------



## neonwilderness (Sep 12, 2014)

I think I'm leaning towards the plus too. Waiting to see what the EE prices are like before deciding whether to upgrade or pay for it up front.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Sep 12, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I do love how sad and pathetic people who hate apple and love apple get over every release. Each year both groups drool and gnash their teeth in equal measure ready to trot out the same tired old arguments.



I dont hate Apple, in fact i only posted the above because i was genuinely surprised that such a premium device doesn't already have those features. As you can tell, i dont slavishly follow mobile phone technology.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

Can't iPhones install apps from your browser? And can you get an automatic refund if the app turns out to be not what you wanted?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2014)

You can although it will redirect to iTunes or the App store depending on what you are viewing it with.  

All sales are final on the App store but you can complain about it, such as it crashing and if they agree they will refund you.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

Sunray said:


> All sales are final on the App store but you can complain about it, such as it crashing and if they agree they will refund you.


Bit of a big faff that.


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2014)

Been a while so people seem to have forgotten the feature are all really in iOS8 coupled with the new hardware make for a compelling upgrade package, especially for people like me on a iPhone 4.

This is especially true for the integration of iOS8 and multiple Apple devices.  No more fiddling about switching on personal hotspot on the phone and then connecting to it on the iPad.  Fully automatic as is the seamless doc editing thing.  Software is where its at.


----------



## Me76 (Sep 12, 2014)

Does anyone know whether iOS 8 will work on a 4s and what the actual benefits are?


----------



## Sunray (Sep 12, 2014)

Yes iOS8 will work on the 4S but there are restrictions on some features.  Need to look at the Apple website for the low down.  

It will be the last iOS upgrade for the 4S. Very tempting to get a 4S as they are fairly cheap but if I want to spend out on an upgrade I am tempted to go all the way to the top.  Its a massive hike in features.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 12, 2014)

elbows said:


> Waiting for the o2 online shop to come back so I can pre-order. Got really tempted by the larger version but I think I'll have to play it safe and go for the smaller one, despite the additional draw of optical image stabilisation for the camera on the larger one.
> 
> Given the rapid advances over a number of years in smartphone tech, I'm quite pleased with myself for managing to get by with just 2 different phones in the last 6 years. Wonder how long I can make this one last.


Looks like O2 are offering me free phone on the same tariff with 12months lock in (16Gb smaller one) not a bad deal (business tariff).


----------



## elbows (Sep 12, 2014)

The main thing missing from iOS 8 on the iPhone 4S is continuity/handshake stuff, which enables very easy switching of a task you are in the middle of from one device to another, and sharing things like calls, text messages and internet connectivity between iPhones, iPads and macs. Its mostly missing from some devices because of the kind of bluetooth the hardware needs to have to support this feature.

A lot of the new stuff is going to take 3rd party developers to embrace it before it becomes really useful, such as 3rd party notification bar stuff, custom keyboards. Or additional hardware such as smart home devices and health-related sensors.

There are some other bits and bobs too but I am mostly looking forward to the above, and also the ability to send little audio messages from the standard messages app.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 15, 2014)

Barking_Mad said:


>


 
Thats actually quite misleading, as many of the features it lists as "new" on the iphone, have been on previous incarnations for a number of years. Such as notification icons, cross app communication, typing suggestions, cloud backup.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 15, 2014)

To my shame, I have actually ordered an iphone 6.... true fanboi .


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Thats actually quite misleading, as many of the features it lists as "new" on the iphone, have been on previous incarnations for a number of years. Such as notification icons, cross app communication, typing suggestions, cloud backup.


The cross app stuff has always been shit on the iPhone though.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 15, 2014)

editor said:


> The cross app stuff has always been shit on the iPhone though.



But it was there.

The image is misleading, that's my point, as are most images that do the rounds that are anti apple when they launch a new product.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2014)

editor said:


> The cross app stuff has always been shit on the iPhone though.


Yeah, that's one area where Android has always been way ahead. They've said that iOS8 will be a big step forward though, not long to wait and see now.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 15, 2014)

Couple of questions about the 5C (daughter wants one for Christmas).

Is iOS 8 coming to the 5C, and how long is the 5C likely to be supported.

Apple only do an 8GB version now. Is this actually practical and of any use as a device (I have 16GB + an 8GB micdo SD card in my phone)


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 15, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> Apple only do an 8GB version now. Is this actually practical and of any use as a device (I have 16GB + an 8GB micdo SD card in my phone)



Talk about artificially crippling a device! 

You can of course get by with 8gb, it depends how many apps/games/music you want to store on the phone.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 15, 2014)

Global Stoner said:


> Talk about artificially crippling a device!
> 
> You can of course get by with 8gb, it depends how many apps/games/music you want to store on the phone.



It's not for me, but from her iPad use, I'm guessing there would be music and a few games, plus snapchat etc.

Seems like way too little memory!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 15, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> Couple of questions about the 5C (daughter wants one for Christmas).
> 
> Is iOS 8 coming to the 5C, and how long is the 5C likely to be supported.
> 
> Apple only do an 8GB version now. Is this actually practical and of any use as a device (I have 16GB + an 8GB micdo SD card in my phone)


 
iOS 8 will be compatible.... generally speaking hardware is supported for about 3 years. The earliest iphone iOS 8 will support is the iphone 4s, which came out in 2011

As far as will 8GB of storage be enough, thats a bit like asking how long is a piece of string..... will should want music/videos etc etc on there..... if so then probably not, if not then probably yes..... I struggle with anything under 64gb because I like to have a fuckton of music on it.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 15, 2014)

Remember the OS takes up about 3-4gb iirc. An 8GB is really just for someone who wants a phone with a couple of games and a bit of facebook.


----------



## Mojofilter (Sep 15, 2014)

They make 8GB iPhones? Wtf? I bet 8GB of extra storage costs Apple a matter of pence. 

Their storage options really do take the piss.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 15, 2014)

I thought the smallest was 16gb..... there ya go, learn something new everday i guess.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 15, 2014)

Mojofilter said:


> They make 8GB iPhones? Wtf? I bet 8GB of extra storage costs Apple a matter of pence.
> 
> Their storage options really do take the piss.


Only for the "cheap" range, ie. the 5C


----------



## Mojofilter (Sep 15, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Only for the "cheap" range, ie. the 5C



It's interesting & slightly baffling that someone with such (presumably) basic requirements would even consider spending the amount of money that you'd need to, to get even the most basic iPhone.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 15, 2014)

Mojofilter said:


> It's interesting & slightly baffling that someone with such (presumably) basic requirements would even consider spending the amount of money that you'd need to, to get even the most basic iPhone.


"Free" on contract


----------



## Mojofilter (Sep 15, 2014)

Crispy said:


> "Free" on contract



That's still over £20 a month more than / nearly 3 times the price of my Mum's Moto G.

Madness :/


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2014)

Mojofilter said:


> That's still over £20 a month more than / nearly 3 times the price of my Mum's Moto G.
> 
> Madness :/


£32/month for _two years_. Crazy. And its £320 unlocked, 

It's fair to say that there is no way on earth that is three times better than the Moto or that it can do three times as much (the same applies when compared to premium Android phones too).


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 15, 2014)

U2 Removal Tool


> As of tonight, iTunes users can delete the tracks more easily by clicking on this link, which takes them to a dedicated removal page for Songs of Innocence:
> Guardian


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 15, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> U2 Removal Tool


Came here to post that. Fucking hilarious


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 17, 2014)

Charles's usual 5* impartial hands on review Guardian


----------



## TitanSound (Sep 17, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Charles's usual 5* impartial hands on review Guardian



Only one con? And that's the price? Fucking hell


----------



## mack (Sep 17, 2014)

T'net is awash with 5* reviews today - i just cannot believe how amazing this phone is!


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Charles's usual 5* impartial hands on review Guardian


The guy's an embarrassment.

The comments are, as ever, the best place to look in one of his ludicrously biased Apple product 'reviews':


> am literally stunned that an Apple device gets a 5 star review from Charles Arthur.





> "Anyone with smaller hands may disagree, and struggle with the width of the handset - in which case the smaller iPhone 5S and 5C are still on sale."
> 
> Shameless!





> This is ridiculous - five articles on the front page of The Guardian website on iPhone 6. This might be a good, or even a great phone, but honestly, this is shameful marketing overkill. The Guardian is a Pullitzer Prize winning newspaper, not the local free-sheet. Absolutely shameful.





> This is why I love the Guardian, gushing reviews about phones and outfits costing £600 alongside articles about poverty and hunger.


----------



## belboid (Sep 17, 2014)

editor said:


> The guy's an embarrassment.


what do you mean?  It's clearly the bestest phone ever. Cos it's got, uhhh, really nicely rounded edges.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2014)

belboid said:


> what do you mean?  It's clearly the bestest phone ever. Cos it's got, uhhh, really nicely rounded edges.


_Rounded edges_ you say? Oh, I take it all back. That's real innovation.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 17, 2014)

mack said:


> T'net is awash with 5* reviews today - i just cannot believe how amazing this phone is!


There's obviously been an embargo on early reviews being released (signed agreement?) - those journalist complying should say so in their articles.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2014)

Looks like that OMG amazing-extended-awesome battery life might be actually worse than the iPhone 5.
http://www.timesunion.com/technolog...ke-Battery-Life-Might-Still-Be-An-5760663.php


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2014)

Variations in battery life reviews are quite understandable given different testing methodologies. It is useful to do a test with the screen on 100% brightness, but it's not the only metric that should be used.

For example from the Wall Street Journal article that article you linked to mentions:

http://online.wsj.com/articles/ipho...id-envy-1410915695?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories



> The iPhone 6's biggest drawback is its battery. It isn't a deal-breaker—I was able to make it through the day on a single charge. But when I stress-tested the handsets by cranking up screen brightness to 100% and streaming video, the iPhone 6 battery died just before my iPhone 5S's did.
> 
> The iPhone 6 Plus, with its larger battery, lasted about 15% longer than its sibling. But Samsung's Galaxy S5 blew away the competition, lasting 40% to 50% longer than the iPhone 6. (Plus, you can also replace the Galaxy battery any time. Apple's are sealed inside.)
> 
> In tests with all the phones' brightness set to automatic, the new iPhones were more conservative in their power usage and managed to match or beat their predecessor and arch rival.



In my opinion they shouldn't really compare it seriously to an iPhone 5S unless they have iOS 8 on their iPhone 5S, especially when auto-brightness is on. iOS 8 might not make much difference, but thats certainly not a safe assumption to make at this stage.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 17, 2014)

Mr Fry, all this fence sitting will result in arse splinters. 


> ..I believe them to be, the best and most beautiful mobile telecom technology ever yet produced...
> Guardian


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 17, 2014)

Mojofilter said:


> That's still over £20 a month more than / nearly 3 times the price of my Mum's Moto G.
> 
> Madness :/



Or £7 a month more then my Note 2, which also comes with unlimited data (I know that's not cutting edge any more, but I've had it 18 months now)


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Mr Fry, all this fence sitting will result in arse splinters.


Will they have been celebs with a cosy relationship with the manufacturer frothing and swooning over new products by other manufacturers?

No, of course not.

This comment sums up the fawning advertorial well:


> Exquisite.
> Ravishing.
> Utterly gorgeous.
> 
> Utterly embarrassing.


And..


> Good grief. It's like getting a Ford driving, Ford employed executive to review a Ford Fiesta.
> 
> What's the point? Really, it's utterly pointless to hear - yet again - Fry wax lyrical about the latest Apple product. It adds nothing, absolutely nothing.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2014)

If you get bored you should have a look at what chunks of the 'fashion press' appear to have been saying about the apple watch as well. Not as universally gushing as the tech press when it comes to Apple, but some indications that the same sort of shit may be going on with this new arena.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 19, 2014)




----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2014)

How the fuck is some cash laden consumer buying an expensive consumer _news_ anyhow?


----------



## gabi (Sep 19, 2014)

They brought them around our office today. It was like kids in a fucking candy shop. I assume we weren't the only office being treated to an 'exclusive' chance to be amongst the first to own this fucking thing. Yes, it was beautiful, but fucking hell. 600 quid or something, way more for the golden one.

It's a phone. Unfortunately I live in a country where people actually judge you on what handset you tap away on while sitting opposite your friends. Gah.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 19, 2014)

This morning my poor iP4 became even more downgraded - hope I don't breakout in a status anxiety rash


----------



## elbows (Sep 19, 2014)

gabi said:


> They brought them around our office today. It was like kids in a fucking candy shop. I assume we weren't the only office being treated to an 'exclusive' chance to be amongst the first to own this fucking thing. Yes, it was beautiful, but fucking hell. 600 quid or something, way more for the golden one.



The gold colour option doesn't affect the price of the iPhone. The 'really gold' watch on the other hand will give people good cause to moan.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2014)

Me76 said:


> Does anyone know whether iOS 8 will work on a 4s and what the actual benefits are?



I've read a few things that say to not put it on 4S as it really doesn't run well. It works very well on my 5S (better than 7) and some things are actually faster (spotlight is lightening quick and doesn't judder). The big thing for this one is it really feels like an incremental change, there's so few things that I found myself going 'ah that's quite useful'. I'm no fan of widgets, and Apple's solution is as boring as any other. The in notification reply stuff is ok for text, being able to see photos you've shared in iMessage history? Big deal. 

Think the key thing is this is partly half a release as all the big features that I really like the look of require the new OS X (answering calls on my MacBook Pro or the hand off thing are very neat)...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 20, 2014)

Oh actually there's is two things I do find useful:


1 Password Touch ID opening!
Evernote clipping in Safari (finally!)
...


----------



## Me76 (Sep 20, 2014)

I held a 6 yesterday.  Too light, thin and big for me.


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Oh actually there's is two things I do find useful:
> 
> 
> 1 Password Touch ID opening!
> ...



Yeah, even for those that don't find widgets useful, there is a lot else in this release that requires 3rd party devs to make the most of.


----------



## editor (Sep 20, 2014)

A little counterbalance:
Chinese workers make $17 a day building the iPhone 6, but it’ll cost them $4,000 to buy one


----------



## elbows (Sep 20, 2014)

I'm not really sure what that is counterbalancing exactly? Nor does that article mention that iPhone 6's aren't officially available in China yet because their regulator hasn't finished approving them. Plus blackmarket prices there appear to start from $1303. (e.g. see http://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-6-delay-in-china-triggers-black-market-sales/ )

The plight of poorly paid Chinese workers whose conditions of employment often suck is always worth focusing on. But I'm not really sure what comparing their wages to stupidly over-inflated blackmarket prices actually achieves.


----------



## dweller (Sep 20, 2014)

editor said:


> How the fuck is some cash laden consumer buying an expensive consumer _news_ anyhow?



Did you read Stephen Fry's advertorial in the Guardian? It was a barf a minute.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 20, 2014)

elbows said:


> I'm not really sure what that is counterbalancing exactly? Nor does that article mention that iPhone 6's aren't officially available in China yet because their regulator hasn't finished approving them. Plus blackmarket prices there appear to start from $1303. (e.g. see http://www.cnet.com/news/iphone-6-delay-in-china-triggers-black-market-sales/ )
> 
> The plight of poorly paid Chinese workers whose conditions of employment often suck is always worth focusing on. But I'm not really sure what comparing their wages to stupidly over-inflated blackmarket prices actually achieves.



Indeed. It would hit home harder if they had the cost or retail as it will still be a massive difference.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 22, 2014)

I got to play with the 6+ earlier: it's a big iPhone and not a small iPad - I'm still waiting for the perfect hybrid


----------



## elbows (Sep 22, 2014)

Some benchmarks and battery life stuff for both models from Anandtech:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/8559/iphone-6-and-iphone-6-plus-preliminary-results


----------



## gabi (Sep 23, 2014)

editor said:


> A little counterbalance:
> Chinese workers make $17 a day building the iPhone 6, but it’ll cost them $4,000 to buy one



What kind of phone do you use out of interest? I gather samsungs are made in the same factories. Not sure why you're singling out apple here.


----------



## Winot (Sep 23, 2014)

Me76 said:


> I held a 6 yesterday.  Too light, thin and big for me.



Had a quick look at them in the Apple store in Regent St - the 6 Plus is *huge*!

(Couldn't get close enough to the desk to actually hold one mind).


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2014)

gabi said:


> What kind of phone do you use out of interest? I gather samsungs are made in the same factories. Not sure why you're singling out apple here.


Maybe because they make more money than anyone else, they're seen as the coolest, most aspirational brand of all, they're the richest tech company on the planet and they've give less back to charitable causes than any of their peers? And, worst of all, they gave $100bn to fellow tax dodgers fucking U2.


----------



## elbows (Sep 23, 2014)

editor said:


> Maybe because they make more money than anyone else, they're seen as the coolest, most aspirational brand of all, they're the richest tech company on the planet and they've give less back to charitable causes than any of their peers? And, worst of all, they gave $100bn to fellow tax dodgers fucking U2.



I don't think they gave them 100 billion!


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2014)

elbows said:


> I don't think they gave them 100 billion!


It's $100m but $100bn's worth of hurt.


----------



## tony heath (Sep 23, 2014)

editor said:


> they gave $100bn to fellow tax dodgers fucking U2.


 boy oh  boy


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 23, 2014)

20p a download


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 24, 2014)

Welcome to bent-gate


----------



## pesh (Sep 24, 2014)




----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 24, 2014)

So, people sit on their phones then moan that its bent. Genius


----------



## Crispy (Sep 24, 2014)

No sympathy


----------



## bmd (Sep 24, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, people sit on their phones then moan that its bent. Genius



If I paid £700 for my phone I'd want to be able to put skateboard wheels on it and ride it. That's not unrealistic, is it?


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, people sit on their phones then moan that its bent. Genius


It's the funnest, thinnest, most bendiest phone ever.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2014)

Interesting: the Note 3 can survive the same tough test that turned the iPhone 6 into a bendy blob of uselessness.



http://androidcommunity.com/galaxy-note-3-pitted-against-iphone-6-plus-in-bendgate-test-20140924/


----------



## Sunray (Sep 24, 2014)

The plus still worked, so not a block of uselessness, just bent.  The Note is made of plastic, the 6 is made of aluminium. 

What do you expect to happen?

Had a go on a work colleague's 6 today.  Very very nice bit of kit.   Expensive but very nice.  Screen looks amazing, the size is perfect. Speed is lighting.  Camera takes amazing shots including slo-mo video which is super cool.

I am sorely tempted to upgrade my 4 to the 6.


----------



## spacemonkey (Sep 24, 2014)

I held an iPhone 6+ for the first time today. I'm convinced it's the first mass produced product in the history of the world designed to be used by massive tall people*. I have huge hands and it felt really comfortable, I can actually reach all parts of the screen quite easily. 

Why anyone with regular, non-freak hands would buy it baffles me. 


*yes I know the note has been out for a while


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 24, 2014)

Sunray said:


> ...Had a go on a work colleague's 6 today.  Very very nice bit of kit.   Expensive but very nice.  Screen looks amazing, the size is perfect. Speed is lighting.  Camera takes amazing shots including slo-mo video which is super cool.
> 
> I am sorely tempted to upgrade my 4 to the 6.


I think the jump from a 4 to 6 is huge, and if I had the dosh I'd upgrade - I can see the 6plus being popular in markets where it'll be a persons principal device but I view a screen that large without android-like self-curated animated widgets as a waste of real-estate. Let face it iOS home screen is a little dull.


----------



## Mojofilter (Sep 25, 2014)

Sunray said:


> The plus still worked, so not a block of uselessness, just bent.  The Note is made of plastic, the 6 is made of aluminium.
> 
> What do you expect to happen?
> 
> ...




To be fair if you try and bend a metal phone the it's probably going to bend, so I'm not sure what that video really proves. 

Although I'd be mightily pissed off it it got bent from being in my pocket - which seems to be the case for many people.


----------



## Mojofilter (Sep 25, 2014)

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...about-with-it-enough-says-apple-2014092591063


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

Mojofilter said:


> http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/...about-with-it-enough-says-apple-2014092591063


It certainly seems more bendable than many other comparable phones. It certainly screws up easier than a Note 3, for example, thanks to Samsung using more flexible plastics rather than going for fashionable slim aluminium.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 25, 2014)

A lot of the articles about bendgate I think have been a bit misleading...... The video in that post clearly says that the iphone 6 plus is the one thats bendy, but a lot of articles are just using "iphone 6" in the headlines and articles... which the vid is showing doesn't really bend in quite the same way and isn't much worse than the other phones on test.


----------



## Mojofilter (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> It certainly seems more bendable than many other comparable phones. It certainly screws up easier than a Note 3, for example, thanks to Samsung using more flexible plastics rather than going for fashionable slim aluminium.




There's a big difference though between bending because you've deliberately tried to bend it and bending because it's been in your pocket.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

Mojofilter said:


> There's a big difference though between bending because you've deliberately tried to bend it and bending because it's been in your pocket.


For sure, but there seems to be quite a few people saying that it has indeed bent in their pockets.


----------



## pesh (Sep 25, 2014)

turns out metal bends. who knew...
http://www.cultofmac.com/297404/get-bent-shocking-history-bent-smartphones/















never been a fan of thin phones anyway, would far rather they stuck in chunkier battery that would do several days.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 25, 2014)

I reckon I could snap my s3 clean in half with a minimal bit of effort.


----------



## Mojofilter (Sep 25, 2014)

editor said:


> For sure, but there seems to be quite a few people saying that it has indeed bent in their pockets.



Well yeah, if that's the case then it's properly shit. 

I just don't think these videos popping up everywhere of people deliberately bending phones says anything about real world use.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 25, 2014)

The perils of large phones and hipster tight jeans


----------



## TitanSound (Sep 25, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The perils of large phones and hipster tight jeans



This was my exact thought when I saw the first one. Wear proper jeans and your phone won't bend


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 25, 2014)

TitanSound said:


> This was my exact thought when I saw the first one. Wear proper jeans and your phone won't bend


"You're wearing your jeans wrong" is 2014's "you're holding it wrong"


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The perils of large phones and hipster tight jeans


And Apple's slim aluminium build. The similarly sized Samsung Note 3 is far more robust.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2014)

Apple has now offered to replace bent phones, which would suggest it's  not the user's fault. 

http://www.zdnet.com/apple-to-replace-bent-iphone-6-plus-models-7000034040/


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 26, 2014)

A $23 billion drop in share price would probably be the main reason.


ustodaymoney


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 26, 2014)

How many have they sold? How many have actually had this problem?


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 26, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> How many have they sold? How many have actually had this problem?


Over 10 million (6 and 6 plus), 9 reported bends.


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2014)




----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> Over 10 million (6 and 6 plus), 9 reported bends.


That's what Apple claims so forgive me if I don't take their figure as absolute proof.


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2014)

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1787302&highlight=bent

Zillions of threads about bent phones here: http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=42085869


----------



## pesh (Sep 26, 2014)

some really good ones too 

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1787079&highlight=bent


----------



## Sunray (Sep 26, 2014)

I think apple missed a trick by not making the back very slightly curved so the lens can be flush to the body.

Not going to put me off getting one, just seems a strange thing to do on such expensive phones.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 26, 2014)

pesh said:


> some really good ones too
> 
> http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1787079&highlight=bent


How can they not of known about the protruding lens, I'm amazed they worked out how to register a macrumour account


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2014)

This guy's still banging on about the bendy iPhone 6 Plus:



Consumer Reports have done a more scientific test:


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2014)

The (not so smart) kids are a-bending t'ings!


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 29, 2014)

editor said:


> This guy's still banging on about the bendy iPhone 6 Plus:


Probably because his original bendy 6 plus video got 45 million views.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2014)

editor said:


> View attachment 61655
> http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1787302&highlight=bent
> 
> Zillions of threads about bent phones here: http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=42085869


 
There's also zillions of threads on that forum about why arming teachers in American schools will stop high school massacres and that the best way to combat the high murder rate in america is to encourage "responsible gun ownership", yet when you question it most of them believe that 5 or 6 is a totally resonsible age to have your first gun.

Just for context, its basically where kneejerkers go to hang out.


----------



## peterkro (Oct 2, 2014)

sim667 said:


> There's also zillions of threads on that forum about why arming teachers in American schools will stop high school massacres and that the best way to combat the high murder rate in america is to encourage "responsible gun ownership", yet when you question it most of them believe that 5 or 6 is a totally resonsible age to have your first gun.
> 
> Just for context, its basically where kneejerkers go to hang out.


Hope you are not putting me in that category .
I drop in from time to time just to wind the fuckers up.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2014)

peterkro said:


> Hope you are not putting me in that category .
> I drop in from time to time just to wind the fuckers up.


 
I do notice that..... I like winding them up a bit too.

Some of them are just fucking mental though... I had one telling me to withdraw my statement the other day.... I was half expecting him to send me a PM threatening to sue


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Oct 2, 2014)




----------



## gosub (Oct 2, 2014)

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/1...nder_after_the_release_of_iphone_video_nasty/


----------



## pocketscience (Oct 7, 2014)

Now it's Beardgate/Hairgate:


> Bearded iPhone users have jumped on the bandwagon complaining that their facial hair gets yanked during calls, leading to spats over whether to treat #beardgate as a separate trend, or simply as a subset of #hairgate.



http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/10/07/us-apple-iphone-hair-idUSKCN0HW1MA20141007


----------



## mack (Oct 7, 2014)

My old HTC legend used to do that, it fuckin hurts!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 10, 2014)

Tech scandals have really lost their innovation in recent years. I remember the old days when it was about whether your phone would drop calls etc. Now it's all 'if you sit on a big slim phone it'll bend'. Shocking insight.


----------



## editor (Nov 3, 2014)

"With normal use a bend in iPhone is extremely rare, a total of nine customers have contacted Apple with a bent iPhone 6 - Apple"

Here's 300 more:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 4, 2014)

Seeing surprising few iphone 6' in the wild. By this time last year I saw the 5S all over the shop.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 4, 2014)

There still seems an awful lot of iP6 queuing going on, why not just order on-line


----------



## Crispy (Nov 4, 2014)

My boss got one. It's got the nicest hand-feel of any phone I've ever held. So smooth and thin and light. The tolerances in the manufacture are amazing.


----------



## Winot (Nov 5, 2014)

It's very nice indeed. The only thing I don't like is the location of the on/off button on the side. Because it's opposite the volume up button I find myself pressing both when trying to put it to sleep.


----------



## mack (Nov 5, 2014)

Bought a 6 for the missus - setting it up was easy enough coming from an Android device, it's a beautiful piece of tech, very light and feels really nice in the hand.

I'm very tempted myself but I think I'll stick with Android for now


----------



## sim667 (Nov 5, 2014)

Yeah the lock button on the side still catches me out.... Its probably cus ive got a massive case on mine though


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 6, 2014)

got an 128gb one this morning, it is really fast , feels slick and the screen is great

but i agree about the lock button , but im sure after a few months i wont care


----------



## pesh (Nov 7, 2014)

got one a couple of days ago, after spending 2 years with Samsungs dire attempt at Android IOS feels dull but perfect. very happy with it as a phone, tempted to get an pure android tablet for non phone things.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Nov 7, 2014)

I'm waiting for an iPhone 6s - then i'll preorder or whatever o2 lets you do


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 10, 2014)

A mate just got one. Have to say it doesn't look much better in reality...


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 10, 2014)

I'd rather struggle on for another 11 months with my 4 and wait and see what next year brings


----------



## Sunray (Nov 12, 2014)

RedDragon said:


> I'd rather struggle on for another 11 months with my 4 and wait and see what next year brings



I am doing this too, struggling to justifying the 600 quid the phone costs. But I think there will be a moment I do crack, its a massive upgrade.


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2014)

Sunray said:


> I am doing this too, struggling to justifying the 600 quid the phone costs. But I think there will be a moment I do crack, its a massive upgrade.


The only thing that would really make me want to upgrade my phone would be a massive increase in battery life (and maybe a better camera). I don't care much for having an extra-extra thin phone or any of the pointless gimmicks I'll only ever use once, like slo-mo cameras and the daft stuff Samsung shovel onto phones.

And even then, I'd never spend over £500 on it.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 13, 2014)

Im quite willing to spend a fair amount on a phone as its the main device I use day to day. Its always with me wherever I go.

After that its my laptop and ipad, but both of those rarely leave the house.


----------



## pesh (Nov 13, 2014)

editor said:


> The only thing that would really make me want to upgrade my phone would be a massive increase in battery life (and maybe a better camera). I don't care much for having an extra-extra thin phone or any of the pointless gimmicks I'll only ever use once, like slo-mo cameras and the daft stuff Samsung shovel onto phones.
> 
> And even then, I'd never spend over £500 on it.


what did you pay for your S4? they were £630 for the 16gb at launch...


----------



## Sunray (Nov 13, 2014)

Features I'd get really can't be counted as gimicks

Massive speed bump
8MP impressively good camera,
Finger print login
Seamless auto detection of other iDevices (Super fiddly on the 4), 
Much bigger screen
32Gb storage boost.
+ other stuff I don't know as I don't own one. 

Its a worthwhile but costly upgrade.  Current phone has lasted 4 years, Apple's kit is expensive but well made so I'd hope the 6 to be the same.


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2014)

pesh said:


> what did you pay for your S4? they were £630 for the 16gb at launch...


£430/16GB  unlocked.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 14, 2014)

pesh said:


> what did you pay for your S4? they were £630 for the 16gb at launch...



Prices seem to drop on Samsung devices much quicker on contract and upfront. I only pay £25 a month for Note 2 for example. I suspect that when the contract expires early next year, with a bit of shopping around online I'll be able to find similar on a Note 4.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 14, 2014)

Who cares about price? When it comes down to it people buy what they like...


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 15, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Who cares about price? When it comes down to it people buy what they like...



Quite a lot of people I suspect.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 20, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30121593

Let's not forget about dre



> Apple is planning to push its Beats music streaming service to every iPhone in the new year, according to a report in the Financial Times newspaper.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Nov 29, 2014)

My other half just got the six, have to say it feels bloody massive!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 29, 2014)

A mate has a 6 plus. It's ridiculous.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A mate has a 6 plus. It's ridiculous.


I saw one today. Looked daft.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 2, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A mate has a 6 plus. It's ridiculous.



It's big!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 2, 2014)

Hasn't stopped the Note becoming very popular though...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 10, 2014)

Yeah but still it huge! Another mate got one, it's basically a small ipad.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 15, 2014)

I bet you're all going to think I'm mad for trying this, but I found a 10 page thread on a Mac forum about an unsigned app you can install via your browser, anyway I installed it.

It turns out there's fuck tons of films on there to watch all free, bar the occasional App Store popping up 

Name not posted because it'd look proper spammy. But crazy they've worked out how to install an app unsigned via a browser


----------



## Fez909 (Dec 15, 2014)

sim667 said:


> I bet you're all going to think I'm mad for trying this, but I found a 10 page thread on a Mac forum about an unsigned app you can install via your browser, anyway I installed it.
> 
> It turns out there's fuck tons of films on there to watch all free, bar the occasional App Store popping up
> 
> Name not posted because it'd look proper spammy. But crazy they've worked out how to install an app unsigned via a browser


The app I'm testing at work is installed via a website. I'm not sure how it works, but you just go to the site, click install, and that's it. The site is called diawi.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 15, 2014)

Fez909 said:


> The app I'm testing at work is installed via a website. I'm not sure how it works, but you just go to the site, click install, and that's it. The site is called diawi.


Yeah this worked on the same basis

Looks like the walls on apples garden could be falling.


----------



## paolo (Dec 20, 2014)

You can install an iOS app from a (random) website?

If so, that's a huuuge story. More info needed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 21, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Yeah this worked on the same basis
> 
> Looks like the walls on apples garden could be falling.



Pm me the details.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2014)

iPhone 6 plus delivered this afternoon. It's a massive bloody phone, feel almost like Dom Joly holding it...![emoji16]


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 22, 2014)

What made you choose the supersize one then?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2014)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> What made you choose the supersize one then?



The iPad mini 3 being an expensive waste of time. 

I was going to sell my iPad 3rd gen to get on but when Apple updated it and basically charged 100 quid for a finger print scanner I figured fuck that. 

Then realized that getting a six plus solved two problems: I get a near tablet experience and only one device to carry around with me.


----------



## Gone Girl (Dec 30, 2014)

Kid_Eternity said:


> iPhone 6 plus delivered this afternoon. It's a massive bloody phone, feel almost like Dom Joly holding it...![emoji16]



I just got the same and yes it is so huge!!

It is like a mini tablet and now my friends have seen it, they all want one now 

Mine is the gold colour type and 64gbs


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2014)

Gone Girl said:


> I just got the same and yes it is so huge!!
> 
> It is like a mini tablet and now my friends have seen it, they all want one now
> 
> Mine is the gold colour type and 64gbs



Heh its phabulous!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 30, 2014)

Large phones are ace. 

It doesn't take long until everything else just seems tiny and you wondered how you go by.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 4, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> Large phones are ace.
> 
> It doesn't take long until everything else just seems tiny and you wondered how you go by.



Indeed. Was holding an old iPhone 3GS today and just grinning at how cute it was!


----------



## paolo (Jan 5, 2015)

Have to say I like the size of the 5/5S. For my size hands, perfect... I use the phone one-handed.

I'm not in a rush to upgrade my 5S, but when the time comes I'd like something the same size. I've heard a few others out there saying the same thing... give us the old size but latest tech.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 5, 2015)

There are rumours on all the usual fanboi sites that a 4" 6s mini might be happening this year. I hope they're true...


----------



## danski (Jan 5, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> There are rumours on all the usual fanboi sites that a 4" 6s mini might be happening this year. I hope they're true...


Yes and no. Only 3 months into a 2 year 5s contract


----------



## editor (Jan 5, 2015)

danski said:


> Yes and no. Only 3 months into a 2 year 5s contract


TWO years? Blimey. No phone is worth that kind of commitment in my world!


----------



## danski (Jan 5, 2015)

editor said:


> TWO years? Blimey. No phone is worth that kind of commitment in my world!


Don't rub it in


----------



## editor (Jan 5, 2015)

danski said:


> Don't rub it in


Sorry! I once had an 18 month contract on my iPhone. I fell out of love with the phone fairly sharpish and waiting for the contract to run out proved a painful business, so you have my sympathy. Ever since then I've always bought a phone outright.


----------



## danski (Jan 5, 2015)

editor said:


> Sorry! I once had an 18 month contract on my iPhone. I fell out of love with the phone fairly sharpish and waiting for the contract to run out proved a painful business, so you have my sympathy. Ever since then I've always bought a phone outright.


I love the phone (had a 3gs/4s and have had Macs for years (since OS9) and I find Windows daunting ), just not so keen to be anyone's bitch for so long. I did weigh up getting it outright but just couldn't quite stretch at that time when I really needed a new phone. Next time....


----------



## editor (Jan 5, 2015)

danski said:


> I love the phone (had a 3gs/4s and have had Macs for years (since OS9) and I find Windows daunting ), just not so keen to be anyone's bitch for so long. I did weigh up getting it outright but just couldn't quite stretch at that time when I really needed a new phone. Next time....


Well I would suggest looking at some of the Android handsets - like the Z3 Compact I'm using - that cost about half the price of the iPhone and are pretty much the same.


----------



## danski (Jan 5, 2015)

editor said:


> Well I would suggest looking at some of the Android handsets - like the Z3 Compact I'm using - that cost about half the price of the iPhone and are pretty much the same.


Cool, thanks. Will have a shufty


----------



## sim667 (Jan 6, 2015)

paolo said:


> You can install an iOS app from a (random) website?
> 
> If so, that's a huuuge story. More info needed.


 
Yes you can. It seems they're somehow spoofing the app store signature for installation


----------



## paolo (Jan 7, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Yes you can. It seems they're somehow spoofing the app store signature for installation



You click on a link and an app just installs?

And this isn't *all over* the blogs?

Sceptical on the veracity of this one sim


----------



## paolo (Jan 7, 2015)

editor said:


> TWO years? Blimey. No phone is worth that kind of commitment in my world!



Yep danski, buy the phone.

It's a brief ouch, but then you can go to SIM only rolling monthly. Better deals appear several times a year, and you can hop when you see you the deal you want. Or even better, your existing provider will deal-match to keep you.

When the phone is yours, and you don't lock in, you have the bargaining power.


----------



## editor (Jan 7, 2015)

paolo said:


> Yep, buy the phone.
> 
> It's a brief ouch, but then you can go to SIM only rolling monthly. Better deals appear several times a year, and you can hop when you see you the deal you want. Or even better, the provider will deal-match to keep you.
> 
> When they phone is yours, and you don't lock in, you have the bargaining power.


I guess with the new iPhones it's a much bigger ouch than most but without trying to get into the whole phonewars thing, I honestly believe that some cheaper handsets (be it Android/WM) will do absolutely everything a regular punter wants because the differences are pretty much negligible now. But if someone has heavily invested in Apple - or just loves the OS - then they'll have to decide whether its worth the hefty outlay. 

My new phone cost me £320. I don't think I'd want to pay much over that.


----------



## paolo (Jan 7, 2015)

editor said:


> I guess with the new iPhones it's a much bigger ouch than most but without trying to get into the whole phonewars thing, I honestly believe that some cheaper handsets (be it Android/WM) will do absolutely everything a regular punter wants because the differences are pretty much negligible now. But if someone has heavily invested in Apple - or just loves the OS - then they'll have to decide whether its worth the hefty outlay.
> 
> My new phone cost me £320. I don't think I'd want to pay much over that.



Android has done something that Apple could never have done - democratised smartphones. The prices for a low end Android phone are now at the point where old school phones are dead.

In fact, the idea of 'smartphones' being a separate (premium) segment is almost gone. They're just phones now. This is a *good* thing imho


----------



## sim667 (Jan 7, 2015)

paolo said:


> You click on a link and an app just installs?
> 
> And this isn't *all over* the blogs?
> 
> Sceptical on the veracity of this one sim


 
Nope genuinely, it works

http://thenextweb.com/apple/2013/01/01/low-down-dirty-iphone-app-pirates/

I've not pirated apps this way, but I did install moviebox which allows you to stream a plethora of films, some of which are in the cinema still etc.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 7, 2015)

editor said:


> Sorry! I once had an 18 month contract on my iPhone. I fell out of love with the phone fairly sharpish and waiting for the contract to run out proved a painful business, so you have my sympathy. Ever since then I've always bought a phone outright.



I'm not sure about iphones, but sometimes with Android headsets its cheaper to buy them on contract. When I got my Note, I did the sums and couldn't have bought it as cheaply once I factored in the cost of an equivalent SIM only contract.


----------



## Winot (Jan 25, 2015)

Random iPhone question: when my phone picks up a Wi-Fi signal it already knows and the internet behind the Wi-Fi is down, will the phone switch to 3/4G (if available) so that I can download data, or is the mobile data disabled because the phone is connected to Wi-Fi?

I suspect it's the latter, which is a bit shit.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 9, 2015)

Anyone else' iPhone 6+ got a whole load snappier since iOS 8.3??


----------



## editor (May 27, 2015)

Ooer.




The iPhone bug that lets anyone crash your phone with a text message

Read more (and see the message) here: http://www.iclarified.com/49403/this-text-message-can-crash-any-iphone-video

Fiddly to fix too: 



> If you're stuck with your Messages app constantly crashing after receiving the text there are a couple of fixes. Most involve sending a message outside of the messages app (through Share sheets or through Siri). Below are two examples of ways to solve the issue:
> 
> 1) Launch the photos app, send a random photo to the person who sent you the text, then go into iMessage and delete the conversation.
> 
> 2) Use Siri to send a message to the person who just sent you the string. After Siri confirms and sends the message, open the Messages app and the problem should be resolved.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 29, 2015)

Who the hell uses the messages app these days?! Everyone I know is on WhatsApp, FB Messenger or Snapchat...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 30, 2015)

I do.


----------



## pesh (May 30, 2015)

I do


----------



## hendo (May 31, 2015)

And I. It's the app I know everyone has, or it defaults to a text, so I use it at work all the time.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 2, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Who the hell uses the messages app these days?! Everyone I know is on WhatsApp, FB Messenger or Snapchat...



I can't stand whatsapp..... or snapchat.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 2, 2015)

Anyone using Vshare on their iPhone?

Its like an unofficial app store..... obviously some of it will be iffy, but it seems worth checking out to me..


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 2, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Anyone using Vshare on their iPhone?
> 
> Its like an unofficial app store..... obviously some of it will be iffy, but it seems worth checking out to me..


Errr, no thanks.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Anyone using Vshare on their iPhone?
> 
> Its like an unofficial app store..... obviously some of it will be iffy, but it seems worth checking out to me..


I'll have a look.  Got my 6 this morning, not sure if I dare use it till my cover turns up too, it feels so incredibly lightweight and liable to break.  The camera looks nice, not done owt else with it yet


----------



## sim667 (Jun 2, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Errr, no thanks.



Yeah, i guess its a case of how much hassle you're willing to accept if it goes wrong


----------



## sim667 (Jun 2, 2015)

belboid said:


> I'll have a look.  Got my 6 this morning, not sure if I dare use it till my cover turns up too, it feels so incredibly lightweight and liable to break.  The camera looks nice, not done owt else with it yet



If I had a brand new iPhone 6, I'd probably be wanting to try vshare on an iPod or an older iPhone tbh.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 2, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Yeah, i guess its a case of how much hassle you're willing to accept if it goes wrong


I like my phone to be nasty free thank you very much


----------



## sim667 (Jun 2, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I like my phone to be nasty free thank you very much


 To be fair I've jailbroken quite a few times and never had a problem..... but again i certainly know its not risk free.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2015)

sim667 said:


> If I had a brand new iPhone 6, I'd probably be wanting to try vshare on an iPod or an older iPhone tbh.


that is kinda what I meant!  Wouldn't use it  on a phone I actually _require. _The new 6 is only worth mentioning because otherwise I wouldn't be reading the thread


----------



## sim667 (Jun 2, 2015)

belboid said:


> that is kinda what I meant!  Wouldn't use it  on a phone I actually _require. _The new 6 is only worth mentioning because otherwise I wouldn't be reading the thread



Ah gotcha.


----------



## Coolfonz (Jun 7, 2015)

If I buys an iphone 6 somewhere in foreign land will it be unlocked and can i make it work in English?


----------



## dynamicbaddog (Jun 20, 2015)

paolo said:


> Have to say I like the size of the 5/5S. For my size hands, perfect... I use the phone one-handed.
> 
> I'm not in a rush to upgrade my 5S, but when the time comes I'd like something the same size. I've heard a few others out there saying the same thing... give us the old size but latest tech.


yeah I was happy enough with my 5s. However a week ago it refused to charge. As its insured and I was only a year into my 2 year contract I thought I could just take it to the o2 shop  and they would sort the problem out for me. However after testing it on one of their chargers they sent me up the Apple store in Stratford where after waiting ages to be seen by someone I was told it was either a software fault or the charging port needed replacing, they also informed me they couldn't fix/replace it for free as I was a week outside of the phones  one year warranty. They told me to go back to the o2  shop and try to claim on the insurance, however when I did that  they said I was not covered as the insurance only covers accidental  damage such as dropping it or getting water in it.  They said my only option was to buy out of contract and upgrade to the iphone 6. So I paid £240 to do that and now have just began another 2 year contract.
The next day my mate came round, blew into the charging port, plugged it into the  charger and it came back to life! I managed to sell it back to o2 for £187 so recovered some of the money spend on buying out of the contract.  Getting used to the larger screen now and I suppose the extra battery life and improved camera quality  is a bonus..


----------



## Sunray (Jun 20, 2015)

Coolfonz said:


> If I buys an iphone 6 somewhere in foreign land will it be unlocked and can i make it work in English?



If you buy it off contract then yes.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 20, 2015)

dynamicbaddog said:


> .....The next day my mate came round, blew into the charging port...



All the Apple shop people I've shown my phone to, have a small torch and a defluffing pin on a lanyard.  First thing they they always do is defluff the port.  Odd it didn't work for them or they didn't do it.


----------



## dynamicbaddog (Jun 20, 2015)

Sunray said:


> All the Apple shop people I've shown my phone to, have a small torch and a defluffing pin on a lanyard.  First thing they they always do is defluff the port.  Odd it didn't work for them or they didn't do it.


yes, he used the defluffing pin on it and plugged it into one of the instore chargers and still nothing happened.


----------



## sim667 (Jun 22, 2015)

dynamicbaddog said:


> yeah I was happy enough with my 5s. However a week ago it refused to charge. As its insured and I was only a year into my 2 year contract I thought I could just take it to the o2 shop  and they would sort the problem out for me. However after testing it on one of their chargers they sent me up the Apple store in Stratford where after waiting ages to be seen by someone I was told it was either a software fault or the charging port needed replacing, they also informed me they couldn't fix/replace it for free as I was a week outside of the phones  one year warranty. They told me to go back to the o2  shop and try to claim on the insurance, however when I did that  they said I was not covered as the insurance only covers accidental  damage such as dropping it or getting water in it.  They said my only option was to buy out of contract and upgrade to the iphone 6. So I paid £240 to do that and now have just began another 2 year contract.
> The next day my mate came round, blew into the charging port, plugged it into the  charger and it came back to life! I managed to sell it back to o2 for £187 so recovered some of the money spend on buying out of the contract.  Getting used to the larger screen now and I suppose the extra battery life and improved camera quality  is a bonus..



My charger port went on my iPhone 5 after 14 months..... i.e. 2 months out of contract. 3 were absolute dicks about it, but apple were quite handy.

Because I was on a 2 year contract apple told me that I could consider the device not fit for purpose, and that I could get it repaired by 3 under the european warranty law. Which is what I did..... I rang 3, told them I was filing a claim, and that I'd been quoted £212 to have it repaired by apple. 3 offered me 50% of the repair, which I rejected and told them I wanted the full amount. We settled on something like £207 in the end. So I had to pay apple for the repair and 3 refunded my bills for the next few months until the agreed amount was settled on.

I didn't half give the bloke in the 3 shop in crawley a rough time. He was a fucking prick though.

There seriously needs to be a law in place that means a phone should be under warranty for the duration of its contract.

Edit:

Actually Im just going to go an see three about my iPhone 6 now. I keep getting an intermittent problem where the volume up button gets stuck, it will happen for no reason in my pocket and is going to bloody deafen me if it keeps happening.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 15, 2015)

Used Apple Pay on my iPhone 6 plus yesterday. Have to say it was an incredibly slick and quick experience! So much so that the girl serving me asked on how to set it up and I ended up giving her a tutorial![emoji16]


----------



## Mr Retro (Jul 23, 2015)

I've set it up but not used it yet because I'm in the habit of using my card all the time. I travel a lot and I like the idea of a backup in case I lose my wallet or have it nicked. Which, to be fair has never happened


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm due an upgrade and could get a 6 for nowt, but I assume it can't be long till the (presumably) 6s arrives so I might hang on a bit


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 24, 2015)

Announced in September, available early to mid October if recent history is anything to go by...


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 24, 2015)

any more news on there being a 'mini' version?


----------



## elbows (Jul 25, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> any more news on there being a 'mini' version?



Rumours persist that there will be a 4 inch successor to the iPhone 5c. Some suggest it will have a metal case rather than plastic. However some of the rumours suggest it won't be this year, but rather next year.

I dont place too much weight on rumours unless photos of parts start showing up, and as far as I know that hasn't happened on the 'mini' front yet.


----------



## editor (Jul 25, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I do.


Me too.


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 25, 2015)

elbows said:


> Rumours persist that there will be a 4 inch successor to the iPhone 5c. Some suggest it will have a metal case rather than plastic. However some of the rumours suggest it won't be this year, but rather next year.
> 
> I dont place too much weight on rumours unless photos of parts start showing up, and as far as I know that hasn't happened on the 'mini' front yet.


Thanks.  True to form, my 5s is getting buggy, but it's about 5mm longer than my thumb can reach already.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 25, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> Thanks.  True to form, my 5s is getting buggy, but it's about 5mm longer than my thumb can reach already.


Really? One of the things I love about mine is that it's as rock solid today as the day I got it. Is it one app in particular or more widespread?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 25, 2015)

elbows said:


> Rumours persist that there will be a 4 inch successor to the iPhone 5c. Some suggest it will have a metal case rather than plastic. However some of the rumours suggest it won't be this year, but rather next year.
> 
> I dont place too much weight on rumours unless photos of parts start showing up, and as far as I know that hasn't happened on the 'mini' front yet.


Yeah, I'm resigned to having to get a bigger one (but there's no way on earth I'd get the stupidly sized plus). Just wish they'd not bothered going larger, big screen phones are daft.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 25, 2015)

Thread title needs modifying, the iPhone 7 is on its way I believe!


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 25, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Really? One of the things I love about mine is that it's as rock solid today as the day I got it. Is it one app in particular or more widespread?


facebook - but that and safari are by far the most-used apps.  ite recently it's been refusing to connect to the internet when 3g/4g becomes newly re-available after a signal blackout, or when it picks up a wifi connection - requiring a switching off and on.


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 25, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Thread title needs modifying, the iPhone 7 is on its way I believe!


6s, surely.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 25, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> facebook - but that and safari are by far the most-used apps.  ite recently it's been refusing to connect to the internet when 3g/4g becomes newly re-available after a signal blackout, or when it picks up a wifi connection - requiring a switching off and on.


I assume you've tried deleting and reinstalling Facebook? And are up to date with OS upgrades etc?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 25, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> 6s, surely.


A lot of the "analysts" (ie over excitable bloggers making things up) have decided it will be called the 7. Or simply The iPhone. Or the iPhone Air. Or maybe they'll call it Brian. The truth is only people at Apple actually know, everything else is pure speculation.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 25, 2015)

Whatever it is called, if it doesn't have 3-4 days battery life, it won't be for me.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 25, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Whatever it is called, if it doesn't have 3-4 days battery life, it won't be for me.


Is there _any_ smartphone available that can do this?


----------



## weltweit (Jul 25, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Is there _any_ smartphone available that can do this?


I have a phone that can but it is a Nokia !!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 25, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yeah, I'm resigned to having to get a bigger one (but there's no way on earth I'd get the stupidly sized plus). Just wish they'd not bothered going larger, big screen phones are daft.



I thought that until I got the plus. Now smaller phones feel tiny to me. The plus has become so central that I've actually got rid of my iPad too...


----------



## twentythreedom (Jul 25, 2015)

I've got a hand-me-down 5 that I wiped and now use mainly just in car or boat, just for music, camera and with my Gopro. Works brilliantly. Actual phone is a nexus 5, wouldn't want anything bigger than that tbh.

I can see apple keeping new but 'classic' style iPhone in the range beside the newer, bigger, fancier ones. If it ain't broke etc.


----------



## Fez909 (Jul 26, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Is there _any_ smartphone available that can do this?


If you were a light user, the Xperia Z3 Compact could last three days on a single charge.


----------



## weltweit (Jul 26, 2015)

I had a 4S for a year but didn't really get into it. I could check my work and personal email on the phone, the weather, news, LinkedIn and the like but actually I don't want things like email to be that intrusive that I am forever checking it when I shouldn't be working.

Wondering what apps people find so compelling that they HAVE to have them always available?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 28, 2015)

Evernote is a must have for me...


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2015)

Just an update for you Apple folks: the fabulous Keep is now available 
http://www.theverge.com/2015/9/24/9393065/google-keep-ios-announced


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2015)

Shameful piece of non-news fluff on the Guardian which bothers to interview the handful of fuckwits queuing up to buy an iPhone. I've seen bigger queues on street stalls. 

Apple fans (and a robot) among first to buy new iPhone 6s – video


----------



## sim667 (Sep 25, 2015)

editor said:


> Shameful piece of non-news fluff on the Guardian which bothers to interview the handful of fuckwits queuing up to buy an iPhone. I've seen bigger queues on street stalls.
> 
> Apple fans (and a robot) among first to buy new iPhone 6s – video



I don't know why you feel the need to comment on how short the queue is to buy one. You'd give them stick if there was a massive queue, and now you're giving them stick because theres a tiny queue......


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2015)

sim667 said:


> I don't know why you feel the need to comment on how short the queue is to buy one. You'd give them stick if there was a massive queue, and now you're giving them stick because theres a tiny queue......


Because the whole news story is about, eerr, the queue. Except there isn't one; therefore the news story is not a news story. It's actually yet more fanboy fluff from The Guardian to keep their pals at Apple happy. That is the story.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 25, 2015)

editor said:


> Because the whole news story is about, eerr, the queue. Except there isn't one; therefore the news story is not a news story. It's actually yet more fanboy fluff from The Guardian to keep their pals at Apple happy. That is the story.



Fuck knows why anyone would queue up to buy an electronic product..... have our lives become so vacuous and empty that we really feel the need to queue up to spend hundreds of pounds on something that really makes little difference to our lives on a day to day basis?

Its fucking painful tbh.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 25, 2015)

but don't forget it does have force touch


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> but don't forget it does have force touch


That changes everything. Again.

*looks at current phone in disgust


----------



## Diamond (Sep 25, 2015)

Had mine for two weeks now having shifted across from Samsung and not really very impressed - maybe it takes a while to get used to the new interface...

It's already bent as well.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2015)

Diamond said:


> Had mine for two weeks now having shifted across from Samsung and not really very impressed - maybe it takes a while to get used to the new interface...
> 
> It's already bent as well.


How the heck have you bent it?!


----------



## joustmaster (Sep 25, 2015)

What do they do, in terms of battery life?


----------



## Diamond (Sep 25, 2015)

editor said:


> How the heck have you bent it?!


 
No idea.

It's not a major bend - maybe a milimetre or two - but I just took it out of my pocket having got into work this morning and it's definitely bent.

Currently have it under three very heavy books which seem to be gradually reshaping it but it's a bit disappointing...


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2015)

Diamond said:


> No idea.
> 
> It's not a major bend - maybe a milimetre or two - but I just took it out of my pocket having got into work this morning and it's definitely bent.
> 
> Currently have it under three very heavy books which seem to be gradually reshaping it but it's a bit disappointing...


If I'd spent that kind of money I don't think I'd put up with having to place the phone under a pile of books! Take it  back!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 25, 2015)

The 6S Plus's are less prone to #bendgate apparently

iPhone 6s Plus - Bend Test


----------



## Diamond (Sep 25, 2015)

editor said:


> If I'd spent that kind of money I don't think I'd put up with having to place the phone under a pile of books! Take it  back!


 
Yep - it was part of a contract renewal though so not sure where I stand with that.

If it persists though I'll definitely raise it with the network.

Ridiculous really - I thought all this stuff around iPhones bending was complete nonsense or because people had stuck them in their back pockets and sat on them (which is moronic quite frankly) but this one was just in one of my front pockets as I got the bus and then walked in to work.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 25, 2015)

Diamond said:


> Yep - it was part of a contract renewal though so not sure where I stand with that.
> 
> If it persists though I'll definitely raise it with the network.
> 
> Ridiculous really - I thought all this stuff around iPhones bending was complete nonsense or because people had stuck them in their back pockets and sat on them (which is moronic quite frankly) but this one was just in one of my front pockets as I got the bus and then walked in to work.


memo to diamond: don't put your trousers on backwards again.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 25, 2015)

Had an iphone 6 for a year now, no bends and still very happy with it. Having previously had Samsungs and Blackberrys I do much prefer the iphone. Not enough to queue for one, but enough to drive to Basingstoke tomorrow to get a 6S for Frau Bahn. And a trip to Basingstoke is never undertaken lightly.

Oh and a press release that may be of use to Diamond:

*APPLE has admitted its new iPhone will bend if you are determined to bend it.*

The company has been inundated with complaints from iPhone customers, but stressed it was impossible to make something that does not, ultimately, bend.

A spokesman said: “If you don’t want it to bend then don’t fucking sit on it. How’s about that?

“And, actually, if it didn’t bend then the screen might crack and you’d end up with tiny shards of glass up your back passage. That’s no picnic.”

The spokesman added: “Tell you what, shall we just put a sticker on the front that says ‘not for sitting on’? Would that help, you fucking idiots?”


----------



## 8den (Sep 25, 2015)

Force touch, and Gifs. FFS, the only way I am buying a new phone is if it has a battery than can last 24 hrs on a single charge.


----------



## editor (Sep 25, 2015)

8den said:


> Force touch, and Gifs. FFS, the only way I am buying a new phone is if it has a battery than can last 24 hrs on a single charge.


Sony Xperia z5 Compact for the win, then.


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2015)




----------



## Mojofilter (Sep 27, 2015)

I wonder with these things how much people are there because they are OMG SUPER EXCITED ABOUT THE NEW I THING!!!! Or if it's just become a 'thing' now.

I'd never be part of the former but to be completely honest if I lived close to an Apple Store, was going to buy a new iPhone anyway and had an afternoon to kill (as I often did in my mid 20's - I'd kill for that now) I'd probably go for the LOLZ.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 28, 2015)

Mojofilter said:


> I wonder with these things how much people are there because they are OMG SUPER EXCITED ABOUT THE NEW I THING!!!! Or if it's just become a 'thing' now.
> 
> I'd never be part of the former but to be completely honest if I lived close to an Apple Store, was going to buy a new iPhone anyway and had an afternoon to kill (as I often did in my mid 20's - I'd kill for that now) I'd probably go for the LOLZ.



There does seem to be an expectation (from within Appledom *and* without) that purchasers should succumb ever-so-slightly to mania.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2015)

It's like a fucking cult. Go to 1.41 for the brainwashing stuff.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 28, 2015)

Mojofilter said:


> I wonder with these things how much people are there because they are OMG SUPER EXCITED ABOUT THE NEW I THING!!!! Or if it's just become a 'thing' now.
> 
> I'd never be part of the former but to be completely honest if I lived close to an Apple Store, was going to buy a new iPhone anyway and had an afternoon to kill (as I often did in my mid 20's - I'd kill for that now) I'd probably go for the LOLZ.



Its just a "thing" innit.

I went and queued up for the iPhone 3 i think it was, solely because i'd broken my previous one and hadn't had a phone for a week, plus it was just at the local o2 shop in my town....... I felt like such a bell end..... But i was surprised at the variety of people doing it, it wasn't just apple fanboys.

Its not just apple products though, computer games draw the same level of mania, but just don't happen with as much fanfare as apple, and increasingly over tech companies make.


----------



## Mojofilter (Sep 29, 2015)

I dunno, maybe it's that but from that video it could just as easily be a bunch of people who know that they're being a bit silly and just going with it.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

Just got myself a 64gig 6s for free


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just got myself a 64gig 6s for free


Stolen?


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

Mojofilter said:


> I dunno, maybe it's that but from that video it could just as easily be a bunch of people who know that they're being a bit silly and just going with it.


And the hired hysterics from Apple, of course.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Sep 29, 2015)

Due to the fact that I had my phone nicked yesterday I now need to go buy a new iPhone... 

it's a bit of parlour. You have to reserve one to be picked up instore, but you can only reserve at certain times of day. I was told that for Stratford I have to do it at 6 in the morning


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Stolen?




50 gig data/month, unlimited texts and calls, £36 a month, free phone, result


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

iPhone 6s Performance: New benchmarks are incredibly impressive | BGR

Who needs 4 gig of RAM and 8 cores anyway?


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> 50 gig data/month, unlimited texts and calls, £36 a month, free phone, result


So not actually free then, given that you're paying a shitload of money every month. How long is your contract for?


----------



## 8den (Sep 29, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> 50 gig data/month, unlimited texts and calls,* £36 a month*, free phone, result



You read the contract right? You have to pay them, not vice a versa?

ETA Damnit Editor


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> So not actually free then, given that you're paying a shitload of money every month. How long is your contract for?


Well, yeah, obviously. But no more than I've been paying up to now so it will make zero difference to my finances. And having such a huge amount of data per month saves me a fortune in hotel wifi fees.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> not actually free then, given that you're paying a shitload of money every month. How long is your contract for?


I'm guessing 24 months meaning free equals £720


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 29, 2015)

Harry Smiles said:


> I'm guessing 24 months meaning free equals £720



Or even £864 

e2a, a phone would cost £539 from the Apple Store. So £13.54 a month for the service...that amount of data and unlimited calls is a pretty good deal!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Or even £864
> 
> e2a, a phone would cost £539 from the Apple Store. So £13.54 a month for the service...that amount of data and unlimited calls is a pretty good deal!


Exactly


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

Blimey: China's 'fake' Apple stores thrive ahead of new iPhone launch


----------



## 8den (Sep 29, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Or even £864
> 
> e2a, a phone would cost £539 from the Apple Store. So £13.54 a month for the service...that amount of data and unlimited calls is a pretty good deal!



£864 is not free.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

8den said:


> £864 is not free.


Well, no upfront cost to me and it is costing no more than I was already paying. Net changes to my finances = zero. A phone will appear in the post tomorrow and I haven't had to find any cash for it. That'll do me.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

8den said:


> £864 is not free.


It's a shit load of money - especially given the fact that you're lumbered with the deal (and the phone) for two years.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> It's a shit load of money - especially given the fact that you're lumbered with the deal (and the phone) for two years.


If you can find me a better deal than that I'm all ears 

Needs to have 50 gig data (or unlimited), unlimited calls and texts, tethering and european roaming. And a 64 gig iPhone 6s.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> If you can find me a better deal than that I'm all ears
> 
> Needs to have 50 gig data (or unlimited), unlimited calls and texts, tethering and european roaming. And a 64 gig iPhone 6s.


A gleaming 7G-connected bar of gold with a holographic screen and 6 month battery life could never compete with a 64 gig iPhone 6s in your eyes, so showing you equally capable alternatives for far better prices would be a fruitless exercise


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 29, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> If you can find me a better deal than that I'm all ears
> 
> Needs to have 50 gig data (or unlimited), unlimited calls and texts, tethering and european roaming. And a 64 gig iPhone 6s.



Have you considered an Android phone?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> A gleaming 7G-connected bar of gold with a holographic screen and 6 month battery life could never compete with a 64 gig iPhone 6s in your eyes, so showing you equally capable alternatives for far better prices would be a fruitless exercise


So, that's a no then?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Have you considered an Android phone?


Had them for years. Had the very first Android phone in fact. Then 3 more after that. Jumped platforms due to various bits of software I need for work being OS X/iOS only. If that changes I'd consider a switch back, but I can't see it happening any time soon.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, that's a no then?


It's a "there's no point attempting a rational discussion about the merits of alternative handsets to a star crossed Apple lover.'


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 29, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Had them for years. Had the very first Android phone in fact. Then 3 more after that. Jumped platforms due to various bits of software I need for work being OS X/iOS only. If that changes I'd consider a switch back, but I can't see it happening any time soon.



I was taking the piss


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> It's a "there's no point attempting a rational discussion about the merits of alternative handsets to a star crossed Apple lover.'


See previous post. Apple kit for me is nothing more than the best available for me to do my job. Show me a better tool and I'll switch. There simply isn't any.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> See previous post. Apple kit for me is nothing more than the best available for me to do my job. Show me a better tool and I'll switch. There simply isn't any.


That's like a Jehovah's Witness saying, " Show me a better religion and I'll switch"


----------



## souljacker (Sep 29, 2015)

Sounds like bees got quite a good deal if you ask me. A similar deal for a Samsung s6 edge comes in at 39£ a month plus £129.99 upfront.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> That's like a Jehovah's Witness saying, " Show me a better religion and I'll switch"



Not really.....


----------



## Johnny Doe (Sep 29, 2015)

8den said:


> £864 is not free.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 29, 2015)

mwgdrwg said:


> Or even £864
> 
> e2a, a phone would cost £539 from the Apple Store. So £13.54 a month for the service...that amount of data and unlimited calls is a pretty good deal!



The 64GB model is £619...... so its about £10.21 a month for the service.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 29, 2015)

8den said:


> £864 is not free.


£864 wasn't the cost of the phone though was it?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 29, 2015)

Harry Smiles said:


>



Why did you  that?

It's a moronic post.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 29, 2015)

sim667 said:


> The 64GB model is £619...... so its about £10.21 a month for the service.



A cracking deal!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> That's like a Jehovah's Witness saying, " Show me a better religion and I'll switch"


Or, more accurately, it's like someone saying they'll switch if something better and more suitable comes along.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Sep 29, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> Why did you  that?
> 
> It's a moronic post.



I 'd the wrong post. I was meant to be ing the correction of my shit maths.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> It's a "there's no point attempting a rational discussion about the merits of alternative handsets to a star crossed Apple lover.'



You'll pay similar for a top end Android handset. Certainly it's only a bit more then I pay for my Note and with a lot more data. Seems good deal for almost unlimited data, if that's the phone you want.


----------



## xenon (Sep 29, 2015)

The fingerprint scanner on the 6s is instant. Don't like the camera lense sticking out.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 29, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> You'll pay similar for a top end Android handset. Certainly it's only a bit more then I pay for my Note and with a lot more data. Seems good deal for almost unlimited data, if that's the phone you want.


Quite. The deal I found for a galaxy 6 edge was 5gb of data. It's £50 a month for 50gb!


----------



## elbows (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> That's like a Jehovah's Witness saying, " Show me a better religion and I'll switch"



This is what I really object to from you. Sometimes someone gives you a perfectly reasonable explanation for why they've chosen Apple kit, and you just ignore it or sneer at it or carry on bleating about some unrelated unsavoury aspect of Apple.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

elbows said:


> This is what I really object to from you. Sometimes someone gives you a perfectly reasonable explanation for why they've chosen Apple kit, and you just ignore it or sneer at it or carry on bleating about some unrelated unsavoury aspect of Apple.


I think you need to reboot your humour app.


----------



## xenon (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> I think you need to reboot your humour app.


Theres probably an Android perspective app. Maybe you have to side load it though.
Seriously nornal people who own Iphones dont gve a shit about the hype they just buy them as and when.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> That's like a Jehovah's Witness saying, " Show me a better religion and I'll switch"


Tbf, that's why I fucked off Android and Windows, after 2 & 12 years respectively 

It has been lovely to have both a laptop and phone that don't work like a wet sack of shit that someone's thrown up on, lots.

Though I appreciate that my particular experiences of Windows, over the 1.2 decades, and Android, over the 0.2, are clearly not cosmologically representative.

And should iOS / OS X ever turn into the wet sack of shit that was my experience of android / Windows, rest assured it'll be back to the whole conversion experience 

Wet sacks of shit have, ime, been remarkably effective conversion tools. (Only I there, obv). I keenly look forward to experiencing one half as bad as the daily / weekly shit I used to experience, on my current not-yet-a-sack-of-warm-shit systems of preference


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

mrs quoad said:


> Tbf, that's why I fucked off Android and Windows, after 2 & 12 years respectively
> 
> It has been lovely to have both a laptop and phone that don't work like a wet sack of shit that someone's thrown up on, lots.
> 
> ...


Each to their own. I had a Palm Pre that started off brightly and then went completely off the rails. Then I had an iPhone 3S and that was truly a sack of fucking shit. I had a Windows Phone for as bit - great but no apps - and since then have swapped brands as the fancy takes me. If you're happy with Apple, that's great, it's a mighty fine system - it's only when people who haven't got a fucking clue start telling me that I am in fact burdening myself with a supposedly inferior OS that I get miffed - particularly if they're mixing in liberal levels of unwarranted smugness in their clueless pontifications. 

Amen.


----------



## elbows (Sep 29, 2015)

Well then perhaps reflect on the idea that you generate similar miff levels in others when you do things such as sneer about how they must have money to burn.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

elbows said:


> Well then perhaps reflect on the idea that you generate similar miff levels in others when you do things such as sneer about how they must have money to burn.


I'll have to run that through a translator.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 29, 2015)

there's an app for that


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> there's an app for that


Bet the iOS version looks nicer.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Bet the iOS version looks nicer.


Cost twice as much though.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 29, 2015)

editor said:


> I think you need to reboot your humour app.



Tbf I've not seen a vast amount of humor.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> Tbf I've not seen a vast amount of humor.


Sorry about that, Monsier Po Face.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 29, 2015)

xenon said:


> The fingerprint scanner on the 6s is instant. Don't like the camera lense sticking out.


But some times I prefer to see the lock screen, especially if I'm only checking the time.


----------



## pesh (Sep 30, 2015)

press the power button then


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 1, 2015)

So, first impressions of the 6s.

It's fast. Very, very fast. Everything is instant, animations are utterly fluid and web pages in safari load as fast as you can click on them.

The fingerprint reader is instant. No lag whatsoever. To the point where it is now almost impossible to access the lock screen using the home button.

Force/3D touch isn't just a gimmick. It's already useful and will only get more so as developers find new things to do with it. I expect to see versions of it on Android phones soon, it's too good not to copy.

I'd still rather it had a 4" screen. It's now ever so slightly uncomfortable for me to use one handed, compared to my old 5s.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Force/3D touch isn't just a gimmick. It's already useful and will only get more so as developers find new things to do with it. I expect to see versions of it on Android phones soon, it's too good not to copy.


Err, it's already on an Android phone 
Huawei Mate S is the first Android phone to offer Force Touch commands | Stuff


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 1, 2015)

editor said:


> Err, it's already on an Android phone
> Huawei Mate S is the first Android phone to offer Force Touch commands | Stuff


Ah, hadn't spotted that. I assume that's an add on by Huawei though, rather than built in to the OS? Or has Android got support for it now?

Either way, just an hour or so of playing has convinced me of its merits


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2015)

editor said:


> Each to their own. I had a Palm Pre that started off brightly and then went completely off the rails. Then I had an iPhone 3S and that was truly a sack of fucking shit



The iPhone 3S never existed  [/pedant]

edit: don't take this as being uppity by the way.... its a joke


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2015)

There's been a problem with 6s phones shutting themselves down inexplicably, I guess you've not noticed that beesonthewhatnow ?


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2015)

The Guardian - which normally works itself into a hyperbolical froth whenever a new Apple product hoves into view - isn't so enamoured with the new iPhone 6s, and they're not so impressed with 3D Touch either:



> Apple’s new pressure sensitive screen is the marquee feature for the iPhone 6S Plus. It allows more gestures based on how hard you press the screen.
> 
> Apple’s peek and pop gestures allow you to preview an email without opening it by pressing slightly harder, or enter the email fully by releasing that increased pressure and doing it again. A similar thing can be done with messages, images, links in Safari, contacts in the phone app and so on.
> 
> ...





> The iPhone 6S Plus is the best phablet Apple has ever made, but only just. It is not a significant upgrade over last year’s 6 Plus, with most of its new features take it or leave it affairs.
> 
> It is also not the best phablet available, but most prospective buyers will be upgrading from an existing iPhone and so are unlikely to consider the Android competition.


iPhone 6S Plus review: barely better than the iPhone 6 Plus


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2015)

I can't think of an iPhone 6s feature that would make any difference to my day to day iPhone usage.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 2, 2015)

sim667 said:


> There's been a problem with 6s phones shutting themselves down inexplicably, I guess you've not noticed that beesonthewhatnow ?


Not yet, no.

The overriding consensus from the reviews I've seen is that if you have a 6 the upgrade isn't worth it. From anything older though it's well worth it.


----------



## xenon (Oct 2, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, first impressions of the 6s.
> 
> It's fast. Very, very fast. Everything is instant, animations are utterly fluid and web pages in safari load as fast as you can click on them.
> 
> ...



I upgraded and this is the first phone I've had with the fingerprint scanner. You don't notice you're even triggering it. I keep using my other fingers to check it's actually working. 

3D Touch. It will undoubtably get more useful. I'm using it with Voiceover, - it's a little tricky with that but I like the web preview thing if you press on a link. 

Just started trying Purify ad blocker now.

So for me, I wouldn't have gone from a 6 to a 6s but over my previous Iphone 5, I'm getting a lot of new features and the obvious performance upgrade.


----------



## xenon (Oct 2, 2015)

iOS 9.0.2 just out. Installed earlier.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Oct 2, 2015)

Work bought me a 6 Plus earlier this year. I'd been Android since the 3GS. I hated it at first, but now I wouldn't go back to Android.

Anyway, as you were.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 2, 2015)

xenon said:


> iOS 9.0.2 just out. Installed earlier.


Been out for a couple of days hasn't it?

I stuck iOS 9 on mine on wednesday and it was 9.0.2.


----------



## xenon (Oct 2, 2015)

Yeah, you're right. Only noticed this morning.


----------



## souljacker (Oct 2, 2015)

ChrisFilter said:


> Work bought me a 6 Plus earlier this year. I'd been Android since the 3GS. I hated it at first, but now I wouldn't go back to Android.
> 
> Anyway, as you were.



You fear CHANGE!!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Oct 2, 2015)

I'm definitely going to be upgrading from my iPhone 4 in the next couple of months. My home button hasn't worked properly for a long time (a common problem with this model, I think) - I have to stab at it over and over to get it to register, which is particularly annoying when you're trying to get it to register two presses in quick succession so you can close open apps.

I'm not sure whether to get a cheaper 6 or a 6s. I'll leave it a bit and see how the 6s beds in with everyone else first.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 2, 2015)

Just used Apple Pay for the first time, in an Apple shop, buying an Apple product.

I feel like I should high five myself or something.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 5, 2015)

Did my iPad to 9.0.2 the other day.

It restarted itself randomly last night


----------



## Diamond (Oct 8, 2015)

I cannot overstate how shit this phone is.

I was supposed to "upgrade" from a Samsung S3 for fucks sake to this piece of shit...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 8, 2015)

Diamond said:


> I cannot overstate how shit this phone is.
> 
> I was supposed to "upgrade" from a Samsung S3 for fucks sake to this piece of shit...


What is it?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 8, 2015)

Just bought beer in a pub with my phone.

This is the future


----------



## fishfinger (Oct 8, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Just bought beer in a pub with my phone.
> 
> This is the future


Surely, your phone is worth more than the price of a beer?


----------



## sim667 (Oct 9, 2015)

Been using the news app on this a lot, had a surprising amount of content too considering its just out.......


----------



## Winot (Oct 11, 2015)

Winot said:


> Random iPhone question: when my phone picks up a Wi-Fi signal it already knows and the internet behind the Wi-Fi is down, will the phone switch to 3/4G (if available) so that I can download data, or is the mobile data disabled because the phone is connected to Wi-Fi?
> 
> I suspect it's the latter, which is a bit shit.



The latest iOS update has included a fix to this problem.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 11, 2015)

My android has done this for ages. Except at work the mobile network is shit as well. 

Have they given you the option to use both wifi and 4g for very fast downloading?


----------



## Winot (Oct 11, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> My android has done this for ages. Except at work the mobile network is shit as well.
> 
> Have they given you the option to use both wifi and 4g for very fast downloading?



Haven't seen any reference to that.


----------



## mauvais (Oct 11, 2015)

Winot said:


> Haven't seen any reference to that.


No normal phone uses both Wi-Fi and mobile data simultaneously. It'd be a mess in technical networking terms, and would sap the battery immediately.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 11, 2015)

My Note 4 does

,


----------



## mauvais (Oct 11, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> My Note 4 does
> 
> ,


Are you sure? Why?

Edit: missed the link, fair enough. It's a set piece for a very specific context though, and not something you'd use more widely. I suspect it fails quite a lot too


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 11, 2015)

Tbf I don't really use it as I don't download large files and have a data cap, so can't comment how well it works. It seemed a neat idea though if you had unlimited data.


----------



## mauvais (Oct 11, 2015)

I used to do R&D involving a similar feature, which would switch bearer (WiFi or mobile) based on what you were doing. It worked but it goes against a bunch of how the operating system works, and that was one bearer for one download, not two bearers at once. The whole thing from pretty low down is set up to route everything down one pipe at once. It also goes against how much of the internet expects you to behave.


----------



## xenon (Oct 14, 2015)

ApplePay though. Really what's the point. Specifically no point whatsoever in the UK where we have contactless cards. Why would you wave your phone about, when it's easier and more convenient to just use your card. Don't you also have to reply to a text to confirm the purchase? Even so, got no intention of using it myself.


----------



## xenon (Oct 14, 2015)

mauvais said:


> No normal phone uses both Wi-Fi and mobile data simultaneously. It'd be a mess in technical networking terms, and would sap the battery immediately.



I don't know how it works exactly from a technical PoV but guessing where in use, it reconstructs the streams from each connection and passes them back up the TCPIP stack. I mean, you can get mobile routers that combine 2 or more celliar connections for bandwidth agrogation. E.g. The Mushroom Networks products.

Have turned off Wifi Assist for now anyway.


----------



## xenon (Oct 14, 2015)

But yeah, Wifi Assist may just be working as failover rather than agrogation. (Sp?)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 14, 2015)

xenon said:


> ApplePay though. Really what's the point. Specifically no point whatsoever in the UK where we have contactless cards. Why would you wave your phone about, when it's easier and more convenient to just use your card. Don't you also have to reply to a text to confirm the purchase? Even so, got no intention of using it myself.


I use it wherever I can now, it's way quicker than getting my wallet out and finding the card I want to use.

As for replying to a text? Errr, no. Take phone out of pocket, double click home button, touch to reader. Done.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 14, 2015)

xenon said:


> agrogation. (Sp?)



Aggregation


----------



## FunkyUK (Oct 14, 2015)

xenon said:


> ApplePay though. Really what's the point. Specifically no point whatsoever in the UK where we have contactless cards. Why would you wave your phone about, when it's easier and more convenient to just use your card. Don't you also have to reply to a text to confirm the purchase? Even so, got no intention of using it myself.



Apple Watch saves you getting your wallet (or phone) out.  Proper space age shit.... you know, it will save me carrying a wallet, and 4 contactless cards (card clash on the tube, dont get me started)

... and my phone is in my hand far more often than my wallet.  shit, they've done it again.

i hate apple


----------



## xenon (Oct 14, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I use it wherever I can now, it's way quicker than getting my wallet out and finding the card I want to use.
> 
> As for replying to a text? Errr, no. Take phone out of pocket, double click home button, touch to reader. Done.



Each to there own I spose. I only tend to use one card out and about.


----------



## xenon (Oct 14, 2015)

Apple Watch. More pointless. IMO


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 15, 2015)

FunkyUK said:


> Apple Watch saves you getting your wallet (or phone) out.  Proper space age shit.... you know, it will save me carrying a wallet, and 4 contactless cards (card clash on the tube, dont get me started)
> 
> ... and my phone is in my hand far more often than my wallet.  shit, they've done it again.
> 
> i hate apple



This is what I've found, look at most queues and people are head down in their phones, far quicker to pay with Apple Pay than to go get wallet, take out card, pop in reader, wait for it to register it, add pin, wait for approval to remove card....


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 24, 2015)

9.1 is out. News app seems to be the main thing.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 25, 2015)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> 9.1 is out. News app seems to be the main thing.



Yep and it's vanilla at best. No way I'm giving up the excellent Flipboard for this..!


----------



## editor (Dec 8, 2015)

Here's that ugly crock of shit you're going to need for a decent battery life.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 8, 2015)

editor said:


> Here's that ugly crock of shit you're going to need for a decent battery life.




I used 25% battery yesterday from 8AM to 12PM.....

So its not something you *need* for a decent battery life, when my iPhone 6 has a pretty decent battery life in the first place....

iirc the 6s has a better battery life than the 6 too.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 8, 2015)

I never worry about getting through a day with my 6s, there's usually at least 20% or so left by the time I go to bed. That'll do.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 8, 2015)

Mine lasts for 2 days of regular use. More than I find necessary but handy if I forget to charge it of an evening.

I'm rarely away from a charging source for more than a few hours, and almost never for more than a day, so I couldn't give a toss about battery life beyond that.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 8, 2015)

My battery life has improved enormously since deleting the Facebook app.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 8, 2015)

That case is fugly! Steve Jobs would never have cleared such an unstylish piece of crap. 

I have a portable emergency battery. Charges a phone about 4 full charges. 
I'd rather that than some stupid case.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 8, 2015)

My 6S plus has amazing battery I regular go 8am till 7pm with moderate to heavy use and still have 25/30% left on battery.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 8, 2016)

Finally bit the bullet and have a 6s arriving tomorrow (is there a thread just for the 6s? Couldn't see one). My iPhone 4 started having one too many tantrums and is a pain in the arse to use now (the home button has been almost-broken for years).

I don't have itunes installed (I've had 3 different computers in the time I've had this phone, and can't be arsed with the syncing bullshit). Anyone know of decent software that will let me transfer my data over to the new one? Don't really fancy typing out all my notes and calendar and address info.

Got a Rhinoshield Playproof case coming too. Not sure whether I'll get a screen protector. I don't know what the deal is with the touch screen and gesture stuff on these newer models. Is it hampered by a protector?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 8, 2016)

Is it still the case that connecting to itunes with a phone you haven't previously synced will erase the content? That used to be the case back in the day, I seem to remember.

Years since I used the awful thing.

I see I can back up to the cloud and restore the data on the new phone. I expect syncing from itunes would be quicker? If it won't erase everything first...


----------



## xenon (Mar 8, 2016)

Don't know about iTunes, I hate it, don't use it.  But if your old phone is backing up contacts etc to Icloud,  assuming you are using the same Apple ID,  you can copy that stuff to the new phone without touching a PC.  All your apps to.


----------



## xenon (Mar 8, 2016)

Actually I think it copied the music too.  I don't think I've even plugged this phone into Itunes.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 8, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Finally bit the bullet and have a 6s arriving tomorrow (is there a thread just for the 6s? Couldn't see one). My iPhone 4 started having one too many tantrums and is a pain in the arse to use now (the home button has been almost-broken for years).
> 
> I don't have itunes installed (I've had 3 different computers in the time I've had this phone, and can't be arsed with the syncing bullshit). Anyone know of decent software that will let me transfer my data over to the new one? Don't really fancy typing out all my notes and calendar and address info.
> 
> Got a Rhinoshield Playproof case coming too. Not sure whether I'll get a screen protector. I don't know what the deal is with the touch screen and gesture stuff on these newer models. Is it hampered by a protector?


I would honestly just use iTunes. When I moved from a 5s to a 6s it made it easy. Made a backup of the old phone, plugged the new one in and within minutes everything was there.


----------



## chilango (Mar 8, 2016)

Last week I moved from a 4s to a 6s. When setting up the new phone I was prompted to use a back up of my old phone from iCloud, so everything (and I mean everything) from my old phone (or least the most recent iCloud backup) was put on the new phone: contacts, apps, photos, bookmarks, saved passwords, the lot. Took moments. Plugged it into iTunes to put a bit of new music on it, zero hassle surprisingly. All very smooth a easy.

Loving the 6s fwiw.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 8, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Finally bit the bullet and have a 6s arriving tomorrow (is there a thread just for the 6s? Couldn't see one). My iPhone 4 started having one too many tantrums and is a pain in the arse to use now (the home button has been almost-broken for years).
> 
> I don't have itunes installed (I've had 3 different computers in the time I've had this phone, and can't be arsed with the syncing bullshit). Anyone know of decent software that will let me transfer my data over to the new one? Don't really fancy typing out all my notes and calendar and address info.
> 
> Got a Rhinoshield Playproof case coming too. Not sure whether I'll get a screen protector. I don't know what the deal is with the touch screen and gesture stuff on these newer models. Is it hampered by a protector?



Did you have the 4 set up with iCloud? If so it should download everything from the cloud to your new phone when you sign in on the 6s.

Except music and books (unless you bought them off apple) iirc.


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 8, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I would honestly just use iTunes. When I moved from a 5s to a 6s it made it easy. Made a backup of the old phone, plugged the new one in and within minutes everything was there.


Couple of hours for a 128gb dump, IME


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 8, 2016)

I haven't been using iCloud, but if it's the easiest option I could sign in and make a backup now. I still have my old phone working at the moment. The 6s and new sim just arrived a couple of hours ago but I've done nothing with them yet. 

Can I make a backup with itunes even though I've never synced to itunes before? There's a check box telling it not to sync, isn't there? I presume I check that first, and then do a full backup?

I have quite a bit of music (probably all of it) on there that I didn't purchase through Apple. I probably have a backup somewhere, on an old external or an old laptop, so that's not a massive problem.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 8, 2016)

Of course I've already authorised 5 computers. Of course I have.



I hate itunes.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 8, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Of course I've already authorised 5 computers. Of course I have.
> 
> 
> 
> I hate itunes.



You need to deauthorise them, you can sign into iCloud and do it on the web


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 8, 2016)

I have deauthorised all of them.

My contacts, calendars, notes, photos all synced with the cloud. Then I did a backup of everything else (which was essentially just apps) in itunes.

As soon as I'd set up the 6s all my contacts etc were there. Very nice. Didn't even have to wait for a download or anything.

Wrangling with itunes at the moment. It didn't want to update the phone to the latest ios from its end, so doing it via the phone instead.

Phone is very pretty. Don't want to get my finger prints on it 

Now, I'm with O2. I think I have to call them to tell them to do a 'sim swap' or something. idk. They sent me my new sim. My old phone is still working. Not sure if it just auto switches over once they see the new sim is in use, or if I have to tell them to. The person on the phone the other day wasn't too helpful. I don't think she understood just how little I understood about this


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 8, 2016)

Last time I got a new phone it was back in the day you had to jump through hoops to get them to let you keep your old number


----------



## sim667 (Mar 8, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> I have deauthorised all of them.
> 
> My contacts, calendars, notes, photos all synced with the cloud. Then I did a backup of everything else (which was essentially just apps) in itunes.
> 
> ...


Contacts are essentially csv files so very fast to transfer, but other media takes a while, things like photos and music etc.

Software update via the phone is a much better option, I rarely use my phone with my Mac these days. You know you can do a wifi sun where it syncs with your comp over wifi when the phone is plugged in to power.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 10, 2016)

Well, I'm getting used to it now. It's so very fast! And oh my, 4G is fast too. 

I very much like it. 

Still trying to get the hang of this 3D touch malarkey. 

The camera is miles better than any other camera I own in terms of MP fidelity 

And it's so fast!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 10, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Still trying to get the hang of this 3D touch malarkey.


It's worth doing, once you get used to it you can really speed up various common tasks.


----------



## chilango (Mar 10, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It's worth doing, once you get used to it you can really speed up various common tasks.



Yes it is, isn't it?


----------



## chilango (Mar 10, 2016)

... I just got a £75 voucher for the Apple Store for recycling my old 4s via the Apple website. Nice bonus.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 10, 2016)

O2 are willing to give me £26 for my 4. Apple have said thanks but no thanks because my home button is borked. It's their fault!!!


----------



## LeslieB (Mar 10, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> O2 are willing to give me £26 for my 4.



Such genourosity is something to behold.


----------



## chilango (Mar 11, 2016)

I also find myself using Siri finally.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 11, 2016)

I think £25 is about your tops, unless you can be bothered to get the button fixed and get it unlocked.


----------



## chilango (Mar 11, 2016)

sim667 said:


> I think £25 is about your tops, unless you can be bothered to get the button fixed and get it unlocked.



o2 were only offering £35 for a fully working 4s. So £25 for a 4 with a dodgy home button seems ok.


----------



## LeslieB (Mar 11, 2016)

Yeah, from ultimate object of desire to almost scrap in less than six years 

Doesn't the Iphone 4 screen look tiny now as well!


----------



## xenon (Mar 11, 2016)

Anyone else rrunning an adblocker? Have been using Purify since I got my 6s. Is great. Have blocked the social buttons on here too. To prevent the accidental "Share on Facebook."

There's a thread on all that in Computers anyway but Purify lets you add sites to Whitelists to support smaller blogs ad revenue if you wish.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 11, 2016)

xenon said:


> Anyone else rrunning an adblocker? Have been using Purify since I got my 6s. Is great. Have blocked the social buttons on here too. To prevent the accidental "Share on Facebook."
> 
> There's a thread on all that in Computers anyway but Purify lets you add sites to Whitelists to support smaller blogs ad revenue if you wish.


Put one on the instant it was possible and have had them on my laptop for years.

The odd time I get to use the net without one is fucking horrible


----------



## xenon (Mar 11, 2016)

yeah, makes browsing news sites, blogs in particular, much nicer. In the past, if I new a particular site tended to have agrovating obstructive ads, I just wouldn't visit again.


----------



## sim667 (Mar 11, 2016)

How does an adblocker on the iPhone work? Is it a browser in its own right, or will it block ads in safari?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 11, 2016)

sim667 said:


> How does an adblocker on the iPhone work? Is it a browser in its own right, or will it block ads in safari?


Blocks in safari. You install the app, then select it as an option in safari settings.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 11, 2016)

chilango said:


> I also find myself using Siri finally.



In what way do you use Siri?

I tried it out, but I feel like a right nob


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 11, 2016)

I didn't know there were ad blockers for phones. That's so useful. I'll take a look at purify.

My local rag is fucking awful with their ads. I don't even bother clicking on anything on my phone now because I know it'll be terrible.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 11, 2016)

The reviews are shit for purify. Anything January this year and onwards are saying it's deteriorated, makes safari really laggy, and loads of ads are getting through.

Has that been your experience, bees, xenon?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 11, 2016)

Oh, I see there's a version of Adblock Plus available. Anyone used that? It's always served me well on PC.


----------



## chilango (Mar 11, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> In what way do you use Siri?
> 
> I tried it out, but I feel like a right nob



When I want to find out something that I'd usually Google, or to convert units or quick calculations, stuff like that...


----------



## Gromit (Mar 13, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> In what way do you use Siri?
> 
> I tried it out, but I feel like a right nob



My mate keeps calling me lazy for using Siri as if taking longer to find the calculator on my phone and type in a sum is somehow better?!

Besides, how are we ever going to have robot butlers if we don't help advance voice recognition software through usage?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 13, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Well, I'm getting used to it now. It's so very fast! And oh my, 4G is fast too.
> 
> I very much like it.
> 
> ...



It has some very neat little uses, a fave of mine is deep press on the edge of the left side of the screen to pull up the multitask screen.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 13, 2016)

omg that's a thing! That's good. After my last home button debacle I don't like using it that much, especially for double clicks (irrational, I know), and now I don't have to 

In other news, this phone is too big. I had the hardest time trying to carry it around with me while also pushing a trolley at the supermarket the other day. (I have my shopping list on there.) It's huge. Thank fuck I didn't get the plus.


----------



## xenon (Mar 13, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> The reviews are shit for purify. Anything January this year and onwards are saying it's deteriorated, makes safari really laggy, and loads of ads are getting through.
> 
> Has that been your experience, bees, xenon?



Not noticed ads getting through. Some sites slow my phone  but I put that down to loads of JavaScript or something else going on. 

Re size of the 6, 6s, yeah.  It is definitely putting some people off.  My friend is due an upgrade and she is now put off another  iPhone because of the new size.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 13, 2016)

Don't get me wrong, when actually sat down using it, the size is lovely. Using photo apps is a far nicer experience because I can see more of what I'm doing. Same for games, even reading texts... that extra screen real estate is pleasant.

But carrying it around is a nightmare!

I need a lanyard


----------



## Vintage Paw (Mar 13, 2016)

I think I've inadvertently happened across what could be a great new trend.

A la Flava Flav, wearing your smartphone round your neck


----------



## Gromit (Mar 13, 2016)

I wanted a plus but when I walked into the store and they didn't have one. 

Then I tried one handed thumb typing with with the 6s and was so glad I didn't get the plus. I can hardly operate this phone one handed.


----------



## hendo (Mar 13, 2016)

If it wasn't for the fact that my other half is an Apple fangirl and my work systems only play nicely with Cupertino gear I'd have long since toddled off to Android land. That being said I lashed out on a 6S Plus a couple of months ago and it's a beautiful piece of technology. I really like it.
The camera is very good; it shoots in 4K so it's useful for my work, the chip is very quick and the battery lasts ages considering it's an iphone. I too am enjoying the screen real estate; I also have a 5S and it seems a bit squitty and fiddly in comparison. 
I was worried it wouldn't fit in my pockets but it does. I have to operate it two handed but I don't feel that's an issue.  
I also thought it might make my ipad redundant but it hasn't done this; the apps are different and when I travel without it I really miss it; it's still better for reading papers and books than the phone and remains sumptuous to watch TV on.  
I think it'll last a good three years by which doubtless something sexier will have come along; but it's ticking the boxes very nicely at the mo.


----------



## twentythreedom (Mar 21, 2016)

Graun bleating on about iPhone SE launch

Apple iPhone SE launch: key points at a glance

Thrilling so far:


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Mar 27, 2016)

hendo said:


> If it wasn't for the fact that my other half is an Apple fangirl and my work systems only play nicely with Cupertino gear I'd have long since toddled off to Android land. That being said I lashed out on a 6S Plus a couple of months ago and it's a beautiful piece of technology. I really like it.
> The camera is very good; it shoots in 4K so it's useful for my work, the chip is very quick and the battery lasts ages considering it's an iphone. I too am enjoying the screen real estate; I also have a 5S and it seems a bit squitty and fiddly in comparison.
> I was worried it wouldn't fit in my pockets but it does. I have to operate it two handed but I don't feel that's an issue.
> I also thought it might make my ipad redundant but it hasn't done this; the apps are different and when I travel without it I really miss it; it's still better for reading papers and books than the phone and remains sumptuous to watch TV on.
> I think it'll last a good three years by which doubtless something sexier will have come along; but it's ticking the boxes very nicely at the mo.



It's superb, I never thought it'd be useful but 3D Touch has turned out to be bloody great!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 29, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> The reviews are shit for purify. Anything January this year and onwards are saying it's deteriorated, makes safari really laggy, and loads of ads are getting through.
> 
> Has that been your experience, bees, xenon?


I use AdBlock Plus. Works perfectly as far as I can tell.


----------



## lizzieloo (Apr 11, 2016)

Total novice to ios, my husband has just got a new iphone (new to him, a 5s) I've just been through and set up all his sounds for notifications for stuff like WhatsApp and FB but there are no notification sounds actually happening. 

What am I doing wrong? 

I'm doing the set up cos he "doesn't do technology"


----------



## lizzieloo (Apr 11, 2016)

Blimey didn't think this would be a bump. Is there a more recent ios thread?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 11, 2016)

lizzieloo said:


> Total novice to ios, my husband has just got a new iphone (new to him, a 5s) I've just been through and set up all his sounds for notifications for stuff like WhatsApp and FB but there are no notification sounds actually happening.
> 
> What am I doing wrong?
> 
> I'm doing the set up cos he "doesn't do technology"


Obvious check, but is the little mute button on the side of the phone on?


----------



## lizzieloo (Apr 11, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Obvious check, but is the little mute button on the side of the phone on?



Thanks! It's not obvious when you've never had an iAnythingbefore


----------



## editor (Apr 27, 2016)

iPhone sales have fallen for the first time and it looks like the next one is unlikely to set the work alight as the law of diminshing returns cuts in. 


> For the first time since Apple launched its flagship smartphone in 2007, the company sold fewer iPhones than it did in the same quarter the previous year. Sales dropped 16 percent in the first quarter of the year—and an even more dramatic 32 percent from the last quarter of 2015. The world’s most valuable company still moved 51 million smartphones, more than anyone not named Samsung can boast. But that doesn’t soften the impact of a product that’s never gone any direction but up finally taking a dive. In fact, the iPhone’s so critical to Apple’s balance sheet that its fall led to a 13 percent drop in the company’s revenue.





> It’s not like iPhones have somehow gotten worse. Other phones, though? They’ve gotten a whole lot better. And they’re cheap. “The phones we have right now are good enough, to the point where I don’t need a premium phone to do everything I need to do,” says Gartner analyst Tuong Nguyen. “Even if I got a mid-tier phone, that’s probably more than I need.”
> 
> In truth, many affordable smartphones have moved beyond “good enough” and many, like the (currently discounted) $300 Nexus 5X, are excellent. This shift comes as US carriers abandon the two-year contracts that long masked the true cost of phone ownership. An entry-level iPhone 6S costs $650, and buyers feel every penny of that, either up front or through monthly installments.
> 
> Dawson sees cheaper Android devices eating into high-end Android sales more than iPhone sales, especially in non-US markets. Even if Android and iPhone users tend to stay in their lanes, though, the price gap between the two creates a median that’s much harder to cross. An iPhone 6S may be better than a Nexus 5X, but is it $350 better? That’s a question Apple must answer to win converts.


Apple’s iPhone Sales Just Fell for the First Time—It Won’t Be the Last 

That said, the company is still phenomenally profitable so I don't think Apple execs will be too downhearted.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 27, 2016)

They must have totally saturated the market.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 27, 2016)

I can't be the only one happy with a 3 year old smartphone? It's an Android though (Sony Xperia Z1 compact). 

The urge to upgrade annually has gone completely. The market has to start shrinking, perpetual growth seems insane.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 27, 2016)

mwgdrwg said:


> I can't be the only one happy with a 3 year old smartphone? It's an Android though (Sony Xperia Z1 compact).
> 
> The urge to upgrade annually has gone completely. The market has to start shrinking, perpetual growth seems insane.



Im doubting whether ill bother upgrading mine at the end of the contract..... In some respects I'm almost tempted to dump the smartphone and just go old school and get a phone with snake.

What I really want is an iPhone, on an unlimited data only contract, and then I'd just get a phone number via Skype....... but I haven't found any companies that will do that.


----------



## discobastard (May 11, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It's superb, I never thought it'd be useful but 3D Touch has turned out to be bloody great!


I've had one for a couple of weeks now but haven't used it once - what do you find it useful for specifically?  Genuine question.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 22, 2016)

discobastard said:


> I've had one for a couple of weeks now but haven't used it once - what do you find it useful for specifically?  Genuine question.



Multitasking is a big one, pressing on the left of the screen/ bezel will take you into the card view. Very useful for snapping back and forth between things.

The sneak peak on links is bloody good too, and one of my favourite is using it on Slack to flick quickly between teams (very useful when you're in 6!).

There's a bunch of others (I discover a new one every so often) which slip my mind at the mo but will post when I remember!


----------



## discobastard (May 25, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Multitasking is a big one, pressing on the left of the screen/ bezel will take you into the card view. Very useful for snapping back and forth between things.
> 
> The sneak peak on links is bloody good too, and one of my favourite is using it on Slack to flick quickly between teams (very useful when you're in 6!).
> 
> There's a bunch of others (I discover a new one every so often) which slip my mind at the mo but will post when I remember!


Cheers - clicking on the bezel is a decent one I had no idea about - that's been quite useful.  I don't use Slack but I shall investigate it.

Peeking at links I don't really get because I'm happy looking at mails or messages anyway but I'm sure at some point it will evolve into something more intuitive - from what I've seen it just doesn't add much yet.

Thanks though.


----------



## chilango (May 26, 2016)

I do find myself using the 3D Touch a lot and I'm surprised to discover that I like the live photo thing.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 23, 2016)

Does anyone actually care if the next iphone ships without a standard headphone socket? People seem to be going nuts about it, but if it makes the phone thinner and maybe more waterproof then I don't see the problem, just use a little adaptor if you wantuse your existing headphones it's hardly going to be a dealbreaker.

Fans angry over 'missing' iPhone 7 headphone socket - BBC News


----------



## sim667 (Jun 23, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Does anyone actually care if the next iphone ships without a standard headphone socket? People seem to be going nuts about it, but if it makes the phone thinner and maybe more waterproof then I don't see the problem, just use a little adaptor if you wantuse your existing headphones it's hardly going to be a dealbreaker.
> 
> Fans angry over 'missing' iPhone 7 headphone socket - BBC News



It depends how much an adapter is and how robust they are.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 23, 2016)

Fans angry over 'missing' iPhone 7 headphone socket - BBC News

Rumours that Apple are ditching 3.5 jacks. 

Give me a removable battery and I won't complain but otherwise no. I need to be able to charge and plug in my headphones at the same time. 

That is how I watch movies on long train journeys and flights etc. Whilst it's charging.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 23, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Does anyone actually care if the next iphone ships without a standard headphone socket? People seem to be going nuts about it, but if it makes the phone thinner and maybe more waterproof then I don't see the problem, just use a little adaptor if you wantuse your existing headphones it's hardly going to be a dealbreaker.
> 
> Fans angry over 'missing' iPhone 7 headphone socket - BBC News



This is the iPhone 6 thread not iPhone 7. 

I've posted about this on the general iPhone thread:
Apple iPhone and related items (cont.)


----------



## 8den (Jun 23, 2016)

Gromit said:


> Fans angry over 'missing' iPhone 7 headphone socket - BBC News
> 
> Rumours that Apple are ditching 3.5 jacks.
> 
> ...



That rumour has been going on for a while now.

It's been a year since I bought a second hand 32gig 5s my first iphone. I recently had to go back to Samsung Galaxy for a little bit, and I have to admit I much prefer the iphone. That being said, I'd really need a compelling reason to upgrade. And the only thing I can think of is longer battery.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 23, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Does anyone actually care if the next iphone ships without a standard headphone socket? People seem to be going nuts about it, but if it makes the phone thinner and maybe more waterproof then I don't see the problem, just use a little adaptor if you wantuse your existing headphones it's hardly going to be a dealbreaker.
> 
> Fans angry over 'missing' iPhone 7 headphone socket - BBC News


Yes, I care. Means you won't be able to play music and charge at the same time.


----------



## 8den (Jun 23, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yes, I care. Means you won't be able to play music and charge at the same time.



Wireless Headphones cost from £15 upwards from Amazon. If you've splurged for a iphone7 spent another £15 on wireless headphones.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 23, 2016)

8den said:


> Wireless Headphones cost from £15 upwards from Amazon. If you've splurged for a iphone7 spent another £15 on wireless headphones.


I can't plug wireless headphones into a mixing desk


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2016)

Gromit said:


> This is the iPhone 6 thread not iPhone 7.
> 
> I've posted about this on the general iPhone thread:
> Apple iPhone and related items (cont.)


Let me merge them into an uber-thread


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yes, I care. Means you won't be able to play music and charge at the same time.


It's quite the stupidest decision ever. The humble headphone socket may be old school tech, but it's cheap, universal and works just fine.


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2016)

8den said:


> Wireless Headphones cost from £15 upwards from Amazon. If you've splurged for a iphone7 spent another £15 on wireless headphones.


If you want the added faff of having to charge your headphones and having to endure lower sound quality per buck.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 23, 2016)

Have they invented wireless earbuds that sound as good as "Sennheiser CX 300 II Precision Noise Isolating Earphones - Black" for under £30?

Ones that will last a 9 hour train journey without the need to charge?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 23, 2016)

editor said:


> It's quite the stupidest decision ever. The humble headphone socket may be old school tech, but it's cheap, universal and works just fine.


Yep. All in the name of making it 0.2mm thinner


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 23, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yes, I care. Means you won't be able to play music and charge at the same time.



People are idiots. Getting angry over nothing more than a rumour...[emoji23]


.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 23, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> People are idiots. Getting angry over nothing more than a rumour...[emoji23]
> 
> 
> .


As rumours go it seems fairly likely...


----------



## 1927 (Jun 23, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yes, I care. Means you won't be able to play music and charge at the same time.


I don't see why! I can charge and use a VGA lead at same time.


----------



## paolo (Jul 4, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep. All in the name of making it 0.2mm thinner



iPod touch is 1mm thinner and has a standard socket.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 4, 2016)

paolo said:


> iPod touch is 1mm thinner and has a standard socket.


Even more silly then


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 4, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> As rumours go it seems fairly likely...



Likely isn't the same as fact though...not going to lose sleep over rumors...


.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2016)

This is supposed to be the most likely candidates for the iPhone 7 Pro spotted alongside iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus. Not exactly lookers. 







iPhone 7 Pro spotted alongside iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus | TechRadar


----------



## discobastard (Jul 23, 2016)

editor said:


> This is supposed to be the most likely candidates for the iPhone 7 Pro spotted alongside iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus. Not exactly lookers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those articles are nothing but speculation. And some pictures of a 6S.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 23, 2016)

I can't wait for this phone to be released. Hopefully it'll be nice and thin with no mini jack, and have 32GB as base level storage. Really looking forward to replacing my 5S with something zippier with force touch and a better battery.

2 more months hopefully.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Those articles are nothing but speculation. And some pictures of a 6S.


Of course, but the days of Apple maintaining total secrecy over all the details of their iPhone updates are long over.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I can't wait for this phone to be released. Hopefully it'll be nice and thin with no mini jack, and have 32GB as base level storage. Really looking forward to replacing my 5S with something zippier with force touch and a better battery.
> 
> 2 more months hopefully.


Why on earth do you not want a mini jack?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 23, 2016)

editor said:


> Why on earth do you not want a mini jack?



Because it's a limiting factor in getting the thickness of the phone to a minimum. Also as I've discovered, they have a tendency to wear out after a lot of use and I'm forever having to twist the headphone into the mini-jack socket to get the sound to come out properly.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Because it's a limiting factor in getting the thickness of the phone to a minimum. Also as I've discovered, they have a tendency to wear out after a lot of use and I'm forever having to twist the headphone into the mini-jack socket to get the sound to come out properly.


Apart from the fact you're going to have to  throw away all your old headphones or get a clunky adaptor, why do you think these new leads/sockets won't go wrong too? And I'm not sure if a phone needs to get any thinner to be honest.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 23, 2016)

editor said:


> Apart from the fact you're going to have to  throw away all your old headphones or get a clunky adaptor, why do you think these new leads/sockets won't go wrong too? And I'm not sure if a phone needs to get any thinner to be honest.



I use the apple headphones, and every new phone I've got includes a pair so I'll just use the pair that come with the iPhone 7. Nobody can say that the leads/socks won't go wrong but my experience with mini-jacks is that they almost always do wear out over time, so I'm welcoming any developments which mean I won't be twisting the cable round in the socket to get stereo to come out. And sure nobody _needs_ a thinner phone but I tend to see improvements on making phones thinner as a good thing. I always add a case, so anything which keeps the bulk down is a good thing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 23, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I use the apple headphones, and every new phone I've got includes a pair so I'll just use the pair that come with the iPhone 7. Nobody can say that the leads/socks won't go wrong but my experience with mini-jacks is that they almost always do wear out over time, so I'm welcoming any developments which mean I won't be twisting the cable round in the socket to get stereo to come out. And sure nobody _needs_ a thinner phone but I tend to see improvements on making phones thinner as a good thing. I always add a case, so anything which keeps the bulk down is a good thing.


I use a pair of AKG K451 headphones now with my iPhone which have replaceable cables—I don't think I'd get a pair which didn't, nowadays. This really does get rid of the possibility of the "fucked cable so have to buy new 'phones" issue, not that I've had the issue with this model anyway as the cables seem to be pretty tough. (They also have a remote built in.)

The basic trouble with cables is that they get fucked at the socket end; I don't think a new connector type is going to change that.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2016)

Crucially, it's impossible to charge jack-less phones with battery packs and listen to music at the same time with wired headphones. Total fucking fail.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 23, 2016)

editor said:


> Crucially, it's impossible to charge jack-less phones with battery packs and listen to music at the same time with wired headphones. Total fucking fail.



Of all the concerns, this for me is probably the most important one. But does anyone actually know for sure yet that there won't be an easy solution to all this like a one in/two out adapter?


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Of all the concerns, this for me is probably the most important one. But does anyone actually know for sure yet that there won't be an easy solution to all this like a one in/two out adapter?


Who wants the burden of an adaptor to carry around/lose/forget?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 23, 2016)

editor said:


> Who wants the burden of an adaptor to carry around/lose/forget?



It really just depends on how you value it. I personally don't mind sacrificing a mini-jack socket if there will be a benefit of greater worth. For me, an even thinner phone with more reliable audio socket _may_ just be worth the small sacrifice of attaching a small adaptor to a power lead or a non-apple set of cans.

I already carry round an external battery and a charging lead these days because smartphones eat through battery life. I'm sure a little adaptor wouldn't be too much extra inconvenience and probably they'll be knocked out on eBay for a couple of quid within days.


----------



## paolo (Jul 23, 2016)

The iPod touch is about 15% thinner than the thinnest iPhone and still has a standard jack.

(Repeating myself  )


----------



## pesh (Jul 23, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Because it's a limiting factor in getting the thickness of the phone to a minimum. Also as I've discovered, they have a tendency to wear out after a lot of use and I'm forever having to twist the headphone into the mini-jack socket to get the sound to come out properly.


It's probably just full of fluff... Deploy the iPaperclip
Getting rid of the minijack is a fucking stupid idea.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 23, 2016)

It certainly seems to have a lot of people in distress.

I reckon like with every other tech shift which means a sacrifice of some sort, people will just get used to it.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> It certainly seems to have a lot of people in distress.
> 
> I reckon like with every other tech shift which means a sacrifice of some sort, people will just get used to it.


Not when it's providing something less useful for a lot of people and ends up costing them more.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 23, 2016)

I have a 6s. 

Like I did with my 4s I'm pretty much going to screw it into the ground before I replace it. 

The 8 or 8s will be out by then. I'll see how the world has responded to no Jack and if Apple does a u-turn.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 24, 2016)

Prediction: people will get used to it. Little adaptors will be available to those that really need a mini jack. The world will keep turning.


----------



## discobastard (Jul 24, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Prediction: people will get used to it. Little adaptors will be available to those that really need a mini jack. The world will keep turning.


Spot on [emoji1360]


----------



## xenon (Jul 24, 2016)

No one needs a thinner iphone ffs. This is still a stupid idea.


----------



## paolo (Jul 24, 2016)

The iPod touch is thinner and still has a mini jack.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 24, 2016)

One day phones will get so thin that you'll need wear a chain mail glove to hold one without slicing a finger off. 

Remember when phones were substantial enough to hold easily?


----------



## paolo (Jul 24, 2016)

Gromit said:


> One day phones will get so thin that you'll need wear a chain mail glove to hold one without slicing a finger off.
> 
> Remember when phones were substantial enough to hold easily?



The chamfered edge 4 thru SE is good. The 6 onwards rounded edge too easy to slip out of ones hand.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 24, 2016)

paolo said:


> The chamfered edge 4 thru SE is good. The 6 onwards rounded edge too easy to slip out of ones hand.


5 was too thin and slippery as well. I ended up buying a high-friction case after it went straight out of my pocket and smack onto a tiled floor several times. Like a bloody salmon that thing.

I don't actually have that problem with my 6S, I think because it's bigger so has trouble coming out of my pocket generally.


----------



## paolo (Jul 24, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> 5 was too thin and slippery as well. I ended up buying a high-friction case after it went straight out of my pocket and smack onto a tiled floor several times. Like a bloody salmon that thing.
> 
> I don't actually have that problem with my 6S, I think because it's bigger so has trouble coming out of my pocket generally.



Oh I was thinking of dropping from being held in the hand.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 24, 2016)

paolo said:


> Oh I was thinking of dropping from being held in the hand.


Ah right... never had much of a problem there. I think that a layer of spilled vanilla latte and crisp crumbs on your fingers really helps with phone retention.


----------



## 8den (Jul 24, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> 5 was too thin and slippery as well. I ended up buying a high-friction case after it went straight out of my pocket and smack onto a tiled floor several times. Like a bloody salmon that thing.
> 
> I don't actually have that problem with my 6S, I think because it's bigger so has trouble coming out of my pocket generally.



I cant understand why people dont invest in a decent shock proof case. Griffin technologies do one for under 20 quid,


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 24, 2016)

8den said:


> I cant understand why people dont invest in a decent shock proof case. Griffin technologies do one for under 20 quid,


Modern iPhones are basically bulletproof anyway. Dropping them does nothing, and I've literally taken a knife to the screen of a 5S and nothing happened.


----------



## Looby (Jul 24, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Modern iPhones are basically bulletproof anyway. Dropping them does nothing, and I've literally taken a knife to the screen of a 5S and nothing happened.


Not in my experience. I've smashed 3 or 4 screens in the last 18 months. I did run over one phone so it's not a surprise that it didn't survive that but the others were just drops.


----------



## paolo (Jul 24, 2016)

8den said:


> I cant understand why people dont invest in a decent shock proof case. Griffin technologies do one for under 20 quid,



Aesthetics for me.


----------



## 8den (Jul 24, 2016)

paolo said:


> Aesthetics for me.



You can get some nice looking leather holders. 

The griffin has a raised bevelled (spelling) border meaning aside from hitting it with something the screen is unlikely to crack.


----------



## xenon (Jul 24, 2016)

paolo said:


> The iPod touch is thinner and still has a mini jack.


You think someone might have brought this up before... 

I put one of those  slim armour cases on my 5 and 6S. The rear camera lense on the latter sticks out anyway. If there's room to make phones thinner, just give us another layer of battery or SDcard reader.

I spose they could make the new one thinner by getting rid of the celluar radio chips. Maybe call it a Iphone WiFi or something...


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2016)

I see loads and loads of smashed/cracked iPhone screens. I don't know what people are doing to them, but they sure seem to break easily enough.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 25, 2016)

Corning are dropping hints that Gorilla Glass 5 will be used on the next iPhone.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 25, 2016)

editor said:


> I see loads and loads of smashed/cracked iPhone screens. I don't know what people are doing to them, but they sure seem to break easily enough.



I see smashed screens of all makes and models. I think I was the only person on Koh Tao that never cracked or smashed a screen!!!


----------



## editor (Jul 25, 2016)

Kanda said:


> I see smashed screens of all makes and models. I think I was the only person on Koh Tao that never cracked or smashed a screen!!!


I don't think iPhones are any worse than any other make, but I'm surprised by the amount of people I see holding broken phones. It would drive me mad personally.


----------



## bi0boy (Jul 26, 2016)

Are there any benefits from buying an iPhone from an Apple shop as opposed to e.g. John Lewis (for the free two year warranty)?


----------



## bi0boy (Jul 26, 2016)

Well I ordered it from John Lewis in the end

OMG I'm getting a new phone! I'm so excited!!!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 27, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Those articles are nothing but speculation. And some pictures of a 6S.



Yep every year the same boring stuff and none of it matters until Apple unveil what they're doing. Then those who buy Apple will get them, those that don't won't (and a hardcore few will complain about it)...


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 27, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Because it's a limiting factor in getting the thickness of the phone to a minimum. Also as I've discovered, they have a tendency to wear out after a lot of use and I'm forever having to twist the headphone into the mini-jack socket to get the sound to come out properly.



I'm fairly relaxed about the headphone jack thing tbh. Personally I don't use my headphones on anything other than my iPhone (have a different set of cans for work stuff) so removing it and moving to lightening will have zero practical impact.


.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 27, 2016)

Oh, do you have an iPhone then?


----------



## souljacker (Jul 27, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Oh, do you have an iPhone then?



Nah, he just types that out for every post to annoy editor


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2016)

souljacker said:


> Nah, he just types that out for every post to annoy editor


He's been on ignore for ages so I don't get annoyed at all


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2016)

Looks like peak iPhone has long passed, with another drop in sales, although the company are still raking it in and giving little back, as usual.



> Demand for Apple's flagship product has been slowing since the second quarter when the firm reported the first drop in iPhone sales since their 2007 launch.
> The iPhone makes up for around two-thirds of Apple's sales and accounts for even more of its profits.
> The slowdown in iPhone sales sent profit down 27% to $7.8bn in the three months to 25 June, while revenues fell 14.6% to $42.4bn.
> 
> ...


Apple sees iPhone sales drop again but beats forecasts - BBC News


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 27, 2016)

People not upgrading their phones as often because they're not getting thin enough with each new release, clearly a sign the mini jack has to go


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> People not upgrading their phones as often because they're not getting thin enough with each new release, clearly a sign the mini jack has to go


That will CHANGE EVERYTHING. AGAIN.


----------



## paolo (Jul 27, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> People not upgrading their phones as often because they're not getting thin enough with each new release, clearly a sign the mini jack has to go



Except it's not about thinness, as proved by the iPod touch.

(I wonder how many times I can reword this same reply  )


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 28, 2016)

Possible iPhone 7 Lightning to 3.5 mm Adapter Surfaces in New Photos

LOOK at how clunky and burdensome it is!!


----------



## editor (Jul 28, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Possible iPhone 7 Lightning to 3.5 mm Adapter Surfaces in New Photos
> 
> LOOK at how clunky and burdensome it is!!


That is fucking ridiculous.


----------



## bi0boy (Jul 28, 2016)

editor said:


> That is fucking ridiculous.



I'm sure it will only be £25 so quit complaining


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

It's exactly how I imagined an adaptor will be. A nifty little thing you'd barely even notice was clipped onto your existing cans.

And I'd put money on them being available for less than a quid on ebay before long.


----------



## souljacker (Jul 29, 2016)

Presumably, it means you can't charge whilst listening to music though?


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> It's exactly how I imagined an adaptor will be. A nifty little thing you'd barely even notice was clipped onto your existing cans.
> 
> And I'd put money on them being available for less than a quid on ebay before long.


I'd certainly notice that clunky piece of crap stuck onto my earphones.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

souljacker said:


> Presumably, it means you can't charge whilst listening to music though?



This for me is a more important concern.

I suspect the answer is they'll overcome it with a nifty new new power cable that you can plug your headphones into while charging. And/or there'll be a little adaptor of some kind which will also be cheaply available on ebay.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

editor said:


> I'd certainly notice that clunky piece of crap stuck onto my earphones.



I really don't see how it could be described as anything even approaching 'clunky'. Come on, at worst it's a _minuscule_ extra bit of length which might not be the same colour as your old headphones.


----------



## pesh (Jul 29, 2016)

oh come on, its a fucking shit idea


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I really don't see how it could be described as anything even approaching 'clunky'. Come on, at worst it's a _minuscule_ extra bit of length which might not be the same colour as your old headphones.


It's a weirdly angled, easily lost needless extra that that adds a pointless complication to your phone. And you still can't charge the fucking thing at the same time.


----------



## magneze (Jul 29, 2016)

Why does it even have the cable bit? It doesn't need it and that'll be the bit that breaks. Kerching! Another £25 please.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

pesh said:


> oh come on, its a fucking shit idea



But shit why? Because it _may_ inconvenience people who want to stick their existing headphones into a new phone? I really think people will just get over it and forget that it was even an issue because that adaptor is not even anything like clunky.


----------



## magneze (Jul 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> But shit why? Because it _may_ inconvenience people who want to stick their existing headphones into a new phone? I really think people will just get over it and forget that it was even an issue because that adaptor is not even anything like clunky.


It is. Get over it.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

editor said:


> It's a weirdly angled, easily lost needless extra that that adds a pointless complication to your phone. And you still can't charge the fucking thing at the same time.



It's a bit of flexi cable barely any more than a couple of cm. It angles any way you want it to?!


----------



## magneze (Jul 29, 2016)

It is literally worse than Hitler.


----------



## pesh (Jul 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> But shit why? Because it _may_ inconvenience people who want to stick their existing headphones into a new phone? I really think people will just get over it and forget that it was even an issue because that adaptor is not even anything like clunky.


because there is a standard, that has been a standard since the beginning of time, which is going to remain the standard for everyone else in the whole fucking world and is better.
the only way to get the full functionality back is to carry round multiple expensive adapters, and there is literally no bonus in doing any of this.

as it happens i already have to carry round one of these things as the 2 part case my phone is in has a tiny hole for the headphone jack which won't let standard headphone or line in jacks fit through so i need to carry a slimline jack to socket around with me or take the case off each time i use it. its fucking shit and i never have one with me so end up having to dismantle the case...

it is worse than shitler.


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2016)

I remember when my Palm Treo had a non standard headphone socket. If ever I forgot my earphones before a long journey, there was zero chance of picking up another pair because no local store stocked them, and the adaptors were easy to lose and often got broken. It's a fucking shit idea.


----------



## pesh (Jul 29, 2016)

i remember when the major selling point of the iPhone 3 was a non-shit / usable / standard minijack socket. my how they cheered.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

editor said:


> I remember when my Palm Treo had a non standard headphone socket. If ever I forgot my earphones before a long journey, there was zero chance of picking up another pair because no local store stocked them, and the adaptors were easy to lose and often got broken. It's a fucking shit idea.



But that's the difference. Barely anybody used the Palm Treo and that's why it was a shit idea to have a non-standard port because nobody was going to stock their phone accessory store with adaptors. iPhones are obviously different and way more popular so you'll find the things in every mall, market, and high street pop up phone dispensary the world over.


----------



## bi0boy (Jul 29, 2016)

Wireless headphones and wireless charging please. Cables are annoying af


----------



## pesh (Jul 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> But that's the difference. Barely anybody used the Palm Treo and that's why it was a shit idea to have a non-standard port because nobody was going to stock their phone accessory store with adaptors. iPhones are obviously different and way more popular so you'll find the things in every mall, market, and high street pop up phone dispensary the world over.


yeah, but as it is you can find the correct connector on the bottom of the fucking phone and still charge it at the same time. no malls or expense required.


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> But that's the difference. Barely anybody used the Palm Treo and that's why it was a shit idea to have a non-standard port because nobody was going to stock their phone accessory store with adaptors. iPhones are obviously different and way more popular so you'll find the things in every mall, market, and high street pop up phone dispensary the world over.


It's weird that way you're trying to convince yourself that having to carry around a needless adaptor is actually a _good thing_. It's even weirder when you consider that with the said adaptor you won't be able to charge your phone as you listen to music, so in fact the technology is taking you backwards: extra bulk, less compatibility, more things to break and less functionality.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

pesh said:


> yeah, but as it is you can find the correct connector on the bottom of the fucking phone and still charge it at the same time. no malls or expense required.



Here's a wild thought. When the new phone is actually released, there may be a solution which actually takes this into account, and it may even come in the box already in the form of an all new cable for no extra expense or hassle.


----------



## pesh (Jul 29, 2016)

call me old fashioned, like every pair of headphones and audio cable i own, but i prefer when it came in the box and attached permanently to the phone.


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## bi0boy (Jul 29, 2016)

Did Apple actually announce this yet or is it all speculation?


----------



## pesh (Jul 29, 2016)

its all just speculation so far.
when they announce it for reals its going to kick the fuck off in here


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

editor said:


> It's weird that way you're trying to convince yourself that having to carry around a needless adaptor is actually a _good thing_. It's even weirder when you consider that with the said adaptor you won't be able to charge your phone as you listen to music, so in fact the technology is taking you backwards: extra bulk, less compatibility, more things to break and less functionality.



But as I keep saying, it depends on how you view it. I really don't see that little adaptor as anything approaching hassle. To me, it's a tiny, insignificant thing that'd most likely just clip onto my old headphones and stay on them, without getting lost or anything.

As for charging and listening - that is a much more valid concern - and I suspect with all those boffins and designer at Apple working on it, we'll see some kind of nifty new cable solution which let's you do both and it probably won't look all that bad either.


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> As for charging and listening - that is a much more valid concern - and I suspect with all those boffins and designer at Apple working on it, we'll see some kind of nifty new cable solution which let's you do both and it probably won't look all that bad either.


Nothing will be more 'nifty' than a universal jack cable and a standard USB charging/data port. Works everywhere, available everywhere and as cheap as chips.


----------



## bi0boy (Jul 29, 2016)

editor said:


> Nothing will be more 'nifty' than a universal jack cable and a standard USB charging/data port. Works everywhere, available everywhere and as cheap as chips.



How about a standard 2.5mm audio jack and the new standard USB-C port?


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> How about a standard 2.5mm audio jack and the new standard USB-C port?


I'm in no hurry whatsoever to change my current USB cables, but whatever is offered, I want a normal headphone socket please.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

For my money, the most potentially inconveniencing thing with lightning socket earbuds, is not being able to plug them into another device, including all the millions of apple devices with mini-jack ports.

So it actually wouldn't surprise me at all if Apple supply regular mini-jack headphones with an adaptor already in the box. So that people can still use their mini-jack ports on their iPad, Macbook etc to do audio and video. And people can also use their old cans with the new iphone without a separate purchase.


----------



## bi0boy (Jul 29, 2016)

Maybe they won't even release another iPhone. Why not just wait until they actually announce something.


----------



## Me76 (Jul 29, 2016)

No normal headphones socket will definitely put me off buying the phone.  

Apple headphones are shit for sound.  I have my own that I have invested money in and use to listen to my ipod.  When I need sound on my phone (listening to podcasts, a video, workout etc) I don't want to have to faff around looking for the adaptor I may have forgotten. Also, it's going to put annoying weight at the end of the cable that is going to pull at your headphones while walking.  

It's shit.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> Maybe they won't even release another iPhone. Why not just wait until they actually announce something.



Because this is urban.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

Me76 said:


> No normal headphones socket will definitely put me off buying the phone.
> 
> Apple headphones are shit for sound.  I have my own that I have invested money in and use to listen to my ipod.  When I need sound on my phone (listening to podcasts, a video, workout etc) I don't want to have to faff around looking for the adaptor I may have forgotten. Also, it's going to put annoying weight at the end of the cable that is going to pull at your headphones while walking.
> 
> It's shit.



I don't doubt there are people like you who will consider that that tiny flexi adaptor is too much change to handle.

But I'm also willing to bet that many more people won't really care, and will get over it because the benefits will outweigh the costs.


----------



## xenon (Jul 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I don't doubt there are people like you who will consider that that tiny flexi adaptor is too much change to handle.
> 
> But I'm also willing to bet that many more people won't really care, and will get over it because the benefits will outweigh the costs.



What benefits?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

xenon said:


> What benefits?



The benefits of owning and using a newer, shinier, faster, and slimmer iPhone with more base storage and better camera, for all the cost of a very tiny adjustment to a peripheral accessory.


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> The benefits of owning and using a newer, shinier, faster, and slimmer iPhone with more base storage and better camera, for all the cost of a very tiny adjustment to a peripheral accessory.


And spending more MONEY for a tiny, incremental improvement with the bonus of NO CHARGING and having none of your existing headphones being compatible! If you're that bothered by thinness, there's thinner Android phones on there.


----------



## bi0boy (Jul 29, 2016)

That's quite a bit of internal phone real estate. You could fit another camera in that space...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

editor said:


> And spending more MONEY for a tiny, incremental improvement with the bonus of NO CHARGING and having none of your existing headphones being compatible! If you're that bothered by thinness, there's thinner Android phones on there.



I reckon the presence of a mini-jack port is way down on the list of priorities when most people are spending money on a new phone. I think speed, storage, interface and aesthetics rate higher.

And the no charging while listening thing really hasn't been established yet. Personally I'd be amazed if Apple were to just let that slide without some kind of solution at launch.


----------



## editor (Jul 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I reckon the presence of a mini-jack port is way down on the list of priorities when most people are spending money on a new phone. I think speed, storage, interface and aesthetics rate higher.
> 
> And the no charging while listening thing really hasn't been established yet. Personally I'd be amazed if Apple were to just let that slide without some kind of solution at launch.


You're a bit lost in Apple. The reason why iPhone sales are dropping is because people realise there's no great benefit in even faster phones because they're plenty fast enough.

If someone is absolutely obsessed with having the thinnest phone ever, then Android has them, and when it comes to storage, once again Android wins because you can simply slide in a 128GB SD card into a phone that already has 64GB. Not that I reckon most people want that much anyway.

Oh and being able to plug in your favourite earphones is going to be pretty high on as lot of users' priorities. Who the fuck wants to use adaptors?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> That's quite a bit of internal phone real estate. You could fit another camera in that space...



The space freed up by no minijack could actually mean a beefier speaker, possibly stereo speakers. Maybe even bassier beats audio like the HTC One M7 had. I don't know. I'm sure there's some rational logic to getting rid.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2016)

editor said:


> You're a bit lost in Apple. The reason why iPhone sales are dropping is because people realise there's no great benefit in even faster phones because they're plenty fast enough.
> 
> If someone is absolutely obsessed with having the thinnest phone ever, then Android has them, and when it comes to storage, once again Android wins because you can simply slide in a 128GB SD card into a phone that already has 64GB. Not that I reckon most people want that much anyway.
> 
> Oh and being able to plug in your favourite earphones is going to be pretty high on as lot of users' priorities. Who the fuck wants to use adaptors?



I really like a lot of Android phones and I also agree there are many things about Android handsets that are appealing like SD card storage, water resistant handsets, and and much better battery on a lot of handsets.

Look I'm not saying people _want_ to carry an adapter. I'm just saying I think it will be such a minor development that most people will just accept it and carry on. Clearly if I'm wrong then Apple will have made a huge miscalculation here and people will be turning to Android sets in their droves. But like with many changes that seem like an inconvenience at first, I just think it won't register in most people's major grievances over time.

Eg. The lack of a removable battery. Something that used to tick me off something chronic about iPhones. Now its just normal across both iphone and android handsets to have a non-removable battery. Nobody wants to go to a specialist to change their ageing battery or carry round a charging cable and an external battery all the time. Chargers and external power packs are way more clunky and annoying to have to carry round. But its the new normal. People live with it. The world carries on.

And if I compare the inconvenience of carrying round an external battery pack with the inconvenience of a minuscule bit of added headphone length, I'd say the battery inconvenience rates way higher.


----------



## paolo (Jul 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> The space freed up by no minijack could actually mean a beefier speaker, possibly stereo speakers. Maybe even bassier beats audio like the HTC One M7 had. I don't know. I'm sure there's some rational logic to getting rid.



Yep, could be one of those. Or a little more battery space. Whichever it is it's not about being thinner. There's thinner devices that still have a standard socket.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jul 31, 2016)

souljacker said:


> Nah, he just types that out for every post to annoy editor



Nope it's a copy and paste from notes.[emoji12]


.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 1, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> .


FUCK OFF


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I really like a lot of Android phones and I also agree there are many things about Android handsets that are appealing like SD card storage, water resistant handsets, and and much better battery on a lot of handsets.
> 
> Look I'm not saying people _want_ to carry an adapter. I'm just saying I think it will be such a minor development that most people will just accept it and carry on. Clearly if I'm wrong then Apple will have made a huge miscalculation here and people will be turning to Android sets in their droves. But like with many changes that seem like an inconvenience at first, I just think it won't register in most people's major grievances over time.
> 
> ...


Until you lose the pointless shitty adaptor and then you're fucked. And that's progress, eh?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Aug 1, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> ...I'm sure there's some rational logic to getting rid.



Of course there is - money.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2016)

editor said:


> Until you lose the pointless shitty adaptor and then you're fucked. And that's progress, eh?



This conversation could easily have been about non-removable batteries a while back.. "yeah, non-removeable batteries. Great..  until you run out of battery and can't replace it! So NOW you need to carry round a burdensome charging chord everywhere. Which you might LOSE! Or a shitty, expensive, clunky external battery, which you have to remember to charge...and you might LOSE! The IDIOTS!"

But yet, most people just don't care about it enough to switch their handsets in droves and force a u-turn in design. And now its just normal. People who need them, carry round clunky annoying external chargers because that's the new normal.

Now take headphones. I'm willing to bet that most people just don't care enough about it enough to switch their phone usage over the type of connector they stick their headphones into. Because either 1) they barely ever use headphones or 2) they only use apple headphones with their iphone or 3) they only use their non-apple headphones with one device most of the time. So no reason to de-attach an adaptor.

So, the people who will be most inconvenienced are the people who use non-apple headphones in their iphone, and who think a tiny couple of cm of flexi cord a massive hassle to deal or will need to keep removing and attaching an adaptor. And then may lose it anyway.

And I just think that - vocal as they will undoubtedly be on the internet - this is just not that many people who will then switch phones on that basis.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2016)

mwgdrwg said:


> Of course there is - money.



Yes but specifically, more space in the iphone to put other stuff in.


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Now take headphones. I'm willing to bet that most people just don't care enough about it enough to switch their phone usage over the type of connector they stick their headphones into. Because either 1) they barely ever use headphones or 2) they only use apple headphones with their iphone or 3) they only use their non-apple headphones with one device most of the time. So no reason to de-attach an adaptor.


How do you explain the immense third party market for earphones then?

Enjoy your ridiculous adaptor.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2016)

editor said:


> How do you explain the immense third party market for earphones then?
> 
> Enjoy your ridiculous adaptor.



See point three. 

And if people really cared that much about clunkiness, then those ridiculous beats by dre cans people wander around with don't seem to be harming sales much. If they're not considered burdensome, then I really don't think a tiny weeny adaptor on the end of them will matter much either.


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> And if people really cared that much about clunkiness, then those ridiculous beats by dre cans people wander around with don't seem to be harming sales much.


Boy are you missing the point. Dr Dre cans are about style.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2016)

editor said:


> Boy are you missing the point. Dr Dre cans are about style.



Yeah, on top of your head! Nobody's checking out the last couple of cm at the bottom of the cord


----------



## pesh (Aug 1, 2016)

yeah, and if you forget the adapter you can still wear them and look cool as fuck.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2016)

pesh said:


> yeah, and if you forget the adapter you can still wear them and look cool as fuck.



But if your main device for music listening is your iPhone. Which I reckon, it probably is for most iPhone users, then you'd no reason to forget it because it'd be permanently attached to your Dre's.


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> But if your main device for music listening is your iPhone. Which I reckon, it probably is for most iPhone users, then you'd no reason to forget it because it'd be permanently attached to your Dre's.


And you'd be utterly fucked if you wanted to use them for anything else, like a DJ gig. Or plugging into a mate's device.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2016)

editor said:


> And you'd be utterly fucked if you wanted to use them for anything else, like a DJ gig. Or plugging into a mate's device.



Well no, because in those instances, you'd then _remove_ the adaptor and you'd have your regular minijack plug back again?


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Well no, because in those instances, you'd then _remove_ the adaptor and you'd have your regular minijack plug back again?


Hahaha. You really have no idea. Ask how many DJs are going to want to have to remember to bring along another adaptor to gigs.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2016)

editor said:


> Hahaha. You really have no idea. Ask how many DJs are going to want to have to remember to bring along another adaptor to gigs.



What are you talking about? You don't _need_ any more adaptors for DJing.

You_'_d only need an adaptor if you wanted to use your non-iphone DJ headphones on your iPhone 7.


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> What are you talking about? You don't _need_ any more adaptors for DJing.
> 
> You_'_d only need an adaptor if you wanted to use your non-iphone DJ headphones on your iPhone 7.


And if you've got your all-new extra expensive, iPhone-compatible Dr Dres complete with the really essential new-style adaptor and you arrive at the DJ gig...?

"Has anyone got a USB-C to mini jack adopter please?" LOL.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 1, 2016)

editor said:


> And if you've got your all-new extra expensive, iPhone-compatible Dr Dres complete with the really essential new-style adaptor and you arrive at the DJ gig...?
> 
> "Has anyone got a USB-C to mini jack adopter please?" LOL.



Wait wait.. we're talking at crossed wires here.

You're now describing some bespoke iphone 7 compatible Dr Dre headphones which don't have a mini-jack? And which require an adaptor to make them into a minijack? Where has this come from?

I'm talking about using regular style DJ cans with a mini-jack as standard (although most proper ones would have a 1/4 inch jack or an adaptor to make it so). Nobody's talking about making professional style DJ headphones with a lightning-only connector yet. I certainly won't be buying any.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 1, 2016)

It's virtually always valid to object to non-standard connections of any kind, in my opinion.

It doesn't really matter whether you can buy an adapter for 99p on ebay or in any phone stall [in a sufficiently sized urban centre and within local opening hours] in the world.

There are plenty of situations where buying via either of those methods is not possible within say the next 24 hours and those kinds of situations are often the same ones where not being able to use your phone or other gadget is highly inconvenient.

Life is much easier if, when you lose your phone charger, virtually anyone else in the world with a phone can allow you to borrow theirs until you are in the position to get a new one.

Likewise life is much easier if virtually any pair of headphones (or mixing deck or amp or mini speakers) will plug into virtually any device with an audio out facility.

Won't anyone think of hitch-hikers in the outer hebrides or people at parties at 3am?

I'm not an apple-hater but their insistence on (constantly changing) non-standard connections for just about everything is one of the things that annoys me the most.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 3, 2016)

editor said:


> Dr Dres complete with the really essential new-style adaptor and you arrive at the DJ gig...?



No self respecting DJ uses Dre Beats....... the build quality is terrible and the sound quality is terrible.


----------



## paolo (Aug 4, 2016)

teuchter said:


> It's virtually always valid to object to non-standard connections of any kind, in my opinion.



Here's the non-standard (and thankfully obsolete) 30 pin connector.

Translate the pin-outs into standard connectors.







Summarising, there's two line level stereo analog pairs, in and out. The standard connectors for those are RCA jacks. So we have four of those standard connectors.

S-Video standard connector is a mini din. There's another standard connector.

Firewire (you'll note the pins assigned to that) is another standard connector.

USB channels (again, you'll note the pins assigned to that) is another standard connector.


Just to facilitate the non Apple standard protocols, to make the 30 pin connector, "standard" connectors would mean:

4 x RCA Jacks (Arguably these could be reduced to an additional 2 x 3.5mm stereo pair line level jacks, in addition to the headphone jack)
1 x S-Video Mini Din
1 x Firewire Port
1 x USB

That's ALOT of standard connectors.

Which no phone ever made has ever had. Not by any manufacturer. Ever.


Of course the 30 pin connector is an outdated example. People complained about it being get rid of (owners, had to buy more accessories), and other people complained about it being introduced to begin with (non owners, not affected, got angry anyway).

There are several stories around "Apple just makes weird connectors" that don't quite pan out. The 30 pin connector shows that. It can't be translated into "standard connectors" without a myriad of "standard" sockets that no phone could accommodate.


(Personally, I think removing the 3.5mm headphone jack sucks, but that's a different than 'that's what they always do'. It just sucks.)


----------



## belboid (Aug 4, 2016)

Aren't we all on Bluetooth headphones anyway?


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2016)

sim667 said:


> No self respecting DJ uses Dre Beats....... the build quality is terrible and the sound quality is terrible.


But DJs absolutely definitely use them, 'self respecting' or not.



> I am going to recommend the new Beats Mixr Headphones to any DJ who wants an on-the-ear set of headphones specifically for DJ use. The Mixr headphones are a very capable set of headphones for the DJ booth and they can surely hold their own against the other DJ headphones on the market today.
> Beats By Dr. Dre Mixr Headphones Review


----------



## sim667 (Aug 5, 2016)

editor said:


> But DJs absolutely definitely use them, 'self respecting' or not.



Maybe in the US...... but I've never seen a DJ turn up to play with beats over here at all the events we've been involved in.

The Sennheiser HD 25-II seem to be the go to's


----------



## pesh (Aug 5, 2016)

editor said:


> But DJs absolutely definitely use them, 'self respecting' or not.


generally when you see someone DJing with a pair they are either a big name being paid a huge amount of money to pretend to use them or a muppet who's paid a huge amount of money for them and has no idea what they are doing or why everything is farting.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 5, 2016)

This is all academic because nobody has suggested they're making Beats By Dre headphones with a lightning only connection. The only thing I see rumoured is apple earbud headphones, and even then I wouldn't be surprised if they still had a mini-jack attachment with an adaptor.

Mixers the world over take 1/4 inch jack headphones and no serious DJ headphone manufacturer is going to start issuing lightning port only headphones. This has come out of nowhere.


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Mixers the world over take 1/4 inch jack headphones and no serious DJ headphone manufacturer is going to start issuing lightning port only headphones.


I'll quote you on that. You are aware that Apple owns Dr Beats, yes?


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2016)

pesh said:


> generally when you see someone DJing with a pair they are either a big name being paid a huge amount of money to pretend to use them or a muppet who's paid a huge amount of money for them and has no idea what they are doing or why everything is farting.


How do you 'pretend' to use the headphones that are on your head when you're DJing in front of a big crowd?


----------



## pesh (Aug 5, 2016)

the same way you pretend to use the crossfader


----------



## teuchter (Aug 5, 2016)

paolo said:


> Here's the non-standard (and thankfully obsolete) 30 pin connector.
> 
> Translate the pin-outs into standard connectors.
> 
> ...



If they introduce a new connector that replaces a load of "standard" connectors in one go, then that's progress, but it's only really progress if that can then become a new "standard" connector. But in that case it wasn't even standard within apple ... as you say it became obsolete.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 5, 2016)

editor said:


> I'll quote you on that. You are aware that Apple owns Dr Beats, yes?



I know they own beats headphones. But I've seen nothing to suggest they're making lightning port models.


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2016)

pesh said:


> the same way you pretend to use the crossfader


Ah right. So you're saying that David Guetta doesn't in fact DJ his gigs at all, but just dons a pair of sponsored headphones and pretends to and no one notices. And your evidence for this claim is?


----------



## sim667 (Aug 5, 2016)

editor said:


> Ah right. So you're saying that David Guetta doesn't in fact DJ his gigs at all, but just dons a pair of sponsored headphones and pretends to and no one notices. And your evidence for this claim is?



There's plenty of suggestions that David Guetta uses prerecorded mixes.


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2016)

sim667 said:


> There's plenty of suggestions that David Guetta uses prerecorded mixes.


So there must be loads of solid proof to back up the assertion that when he's wearing name headphones he's faking the whole thing. It wouldn't be hard to spot to anyone who has a clue about DJing.


----------



## pesh (Aug 5, 2016)

editor said:


> Ah right. So you're saying that David Guetta doesn't in fact DJ his gigs at all, but just dons a pair of sponsored headphones and pretends to and no one notices. And your evidence for this claim is?







this doesn't happen to EZ.


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2016)

That's not to say that I don't think he's an enormous bellend, mind. I'm sure lots of big name populist DJs get lazy sometimes and bung on some prerecorded segments , but 'pretend' headphones are pretty extreme.


----------



## sim667 (Aug 5, 2016)

editor said:


> So there must be loads of solid proof to back up the assertion that when he's wearing name headphones he's faking the whole thing. It wouldn't be hard to spot to anyone who has a clue about DJing.



I haven't made any claims that he uses either sponsored headphones, nor that there's "proof" he's faking being a DJ.

I don't think either suggestion is totally implausible, yes big name DJ's do get sponsored to use certain equipment, and yes big name DJ's provide spectacles which sometimes need to rely on automation.


----------



## editor (Aug 5, 2016)

sim667 said:


> I haven't made any claims that he uses either sponsored headphones, nor that there's "proof" he's faking being a DJ.


Sorry I was rolling with pesh's assertion, although I think I've already spent too long discussing the DJ bellend.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 5, 2016)

Regardless of Guetta being paid to wear these tacky things and whether he's pretending or not...

I really doubt making headphones with lightning only connections is by any means going after the proper DJ market. I haven't seen anything suggesting this is going to happen anyway, so this is all just pure speculation which has veered of the topic of earbuds and adaptors.

And, speaking as a DJ, I wouldn't be seen dead using these things. Lightning connector or not.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 5, 2016)

As Mr Guetta "had major input" on the creation of the mixr headphones, I suspect he's not buying his own off Amazon 
If they do drop the headphone socket on the iPhone, I wonder if they'll do the same on the MacBooks, Watch etc.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 5, 2016)

Lazy Llama said:


> If they do drop the headphone socket on the iPhone, I wonder if they'll do the same on the MacBooks, Watch etc.



Given how many people use their white earbuds for use on their ipads and macbooks it wouldn't surprise me if an adapter was thrown in with the new iphone so people can continue to share the earbuds, or even if regular mini-jack earbuds were continued to be supplied with a lightning adaptor for the iphone.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 8, 2016)

Looks like static home buttons with haptic feedback are going to be replacing the traditional depress button which is a welcome move and hopefully will bring with it some waterproof ability.

Report: iPhone 7 will get new touch-sensitive home button, killer camera


----------



## editor (Aug 8, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Looks like static home buttons with haptic feedback are going to be replacing the traditional depress button which is a welcome move and hopefully will bring with it some waterproof ability.
> 
> Report: iPhone 7 will get new touch-sensitive home button, killer camera


Apple changing everything. Again.


----------



## bi0boy (Aug 8, 2016)

editor said:


> Apple changing everything. Again.



New phone hardware in "slightly different" shocker.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Aug 12, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> FUCK OFF



[emoji12]

Sent from an amazing iPhone full of win using my fingers.


.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 29, 2016)

iPhone 7 event on... the 7th Sept.

Apple's iPhone 7 event is happening on September 7th


----------



## editor (Aug 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> iPhone 7 event on... the 7th Sept.
> 
> Apple's iPhone 7 event is happening on September 7th


Perhaps they'll finally produce a waterproof iPhone with a superior battery life with that wonderful curved Samsung glass. Or not.


----------



## mrs quoad (Aug 30, 2016)

Tuppence ha'penny says it'll have an FM chiplol. Lol.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 7, 2016)

So new Ipads coming out today or what?

just went to check price before going to buy one and nothing on the page price wise...


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 7, 2016)

well if anyone cares...

Apple Events - Keynote September 2016


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2016)

No head phone jack!!! How will the first world survive this disaster?!?


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2016)

editor said:


> Perhaps they'll finally produce a waterproof iPhone with a superior battery life with that wonderful curved Samsung glass. Or not.



I think most Samsung owners would settle for a phone that doesn't blow up.


.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 7, 2016)

fucking pricks put the price up on the older Ipads! 

went in to get a pro today, was told best hold out till tomorrow and now there £50 more... FFS


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 7, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> No head phone jack!!! How will the first world survive this disaster?!?
> 
> 
> .


I imagine they'll survive by not buying an iPhone. This will go down as huge mistake by Apple.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 7, 2016)

it comes with an adaptar for you to plug 3.5 jack into the bottom, so it will be fine.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 7, 2016)

Ranbay said:


> it comes with an adaptar for you to plug 3.5 jack into the bottom, so it will be fine.


And how shit is that?

One of the best things about Apple products is their design. Remember this?







Now you have the Mac pro which is a machine that looks pretty until you need more grunt then you have to add loads of external adaptors to it to attach additional video cards, etc. The Macbook with only one port...leading to this:






then the super thin iPhones, causing this monstrosity






And now _this_, for _headphones?!






:_confused_: :_thumbsdown_:
_


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Sep 7, 2016)

I didn't watch the Apple Event live but is it true that these new 'Airpods' are going to sell for $160?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 7, 2016)

Dead Cat Bounce said:


> I didn't watch the Apple Event live but is it true that these new 'Airpods' are going to sell for $160?



Yes.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 7, 2016)

but they come free with the new Iphone 7 i think? well not free but in the box


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 7, 2016)

Ranbay said:


> but they come free with the new Iphone 7 i think? well not free but in the box


No. You get the wired lightning connector ones in the box. The wireless ones are an (expensive) option.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 7, 2016)

Ranbay said:


> but they come free with the new Iphone 7 i think? well not free but in the box


Not the wireless ones.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 7, 2016)

Ranbay said:


> but they come free with the new Iphone 7 i think? well not free but in the box



No. You get the wired ones, which have a lightning connector. So you can't listen to music and charge your phone at the same time, and have to use a fiddly adapter with your existing headphones


----------



## Cid (Sep 7, 2016)

mwgdrwg said:


> No. You get the wired ones, which have a lightning connector. So you can't listen to music and charge your phone at the same time, and have to use a fiddly adapter with your existing headphones



Fucking hell that's stupid. Presumably there'll be an optional adapter with headphone and lightning slot, and it will cost about £60. I was thinking about getting a new iPhone, current one being 6 years old, but they're bloody expensive and the arrogance of Apple is breathtaking. No-one wants your shitty, expensive headphones; they're either content with shitty, cheap headphones or want expensive ones that are actually good.


----------



## 74drew (Sep 7, 2016)

> “The analogue headphone jack has been with us for a very long time. But the reason to move on is courage. The courage to move on and do something new that betters all of us.”


I'll just leave this here. Thanks Tim.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 7, 2016)

Dunno what all the fuss is about. Just keep the adapter (supplied) on the end of your headphone cable. I don't think I've ever needed to listen to music via plugged in headphones whilst charging my phone, and could certainly live without tunes for the 40 minutes it takes to charge. Everyone else will do it soon.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Sep 7, 2016)

Am I the only one who actually finds their headphones in their bag by scrambling around for the wire?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 7, 2016)

Cid said:


> Presumably there'll be an optional adapter with headphone and lightning slot, and it will cost about £60.


Included in the box - Lightning to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter

£9 if you buy a spare.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 7, 2016)

Quite good on the headphones issue 

Earth to Apple: wireless headphones are like a tampon without a string

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/07/apple-airpods-launch-problems-with-wireless-headphones


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2016)

Fez909 said:


> I imagine they'll survive by not buying an iPhone. This will go down as huge mistake by Apple.



I'll lay money it won't be.


.


----------



## Cid (Sep 7, 2016)

Lazy Llama said:


> Included in the box - Lightning to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter
> 
> £9 if you buy a spare.



I meant an adapter that allows you to use headphones and the lighting jack at the same time.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 7, 2016)

74drew said:


> I'll just leave this here. Thanks Tim.



I thought they made a mistake saying this, his second point about space being a premium was a far stronger one.


.


----------



## Cid (Sep 7, 2016)

On the other hand I will be really happy if it works with my iPad (4th gen) because the headphone jack isn't working properly and it would probably be ludicrously expensive to replace.


----------



## mhendo (Sep 8, 2016)

74drew said:


> I'll just leave this here. Thanks Tim.


It wasn't actually Tim who said this; it was Apple vice president Phil Schiller.

What a fucking knob.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 8, 2016)

Android was first, again  

Confirmed: T-Mobile G1 has no 3.5mm headphone jack


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 8, 2016)

I don't hear anyone complaining about having to use one of these in order for their super-cool headphones to work with their phone:


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2016)

Ranbay said:


> it comes with an adaptar for you to plug 3.5 jack into the bottom, so it will be fine.


Because everyone loves to have to drag an adapter about. Great move!


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 8, 2016)

editor said:


> Because everyone loves to have to drag an adapter about. Great move!


It's about 3 inches long and will be attached to the end of a cable. It'll make no difference whatsoever!

And you lost me a fiver.

I had a bet with someone that you would make that comment before midnight last night!


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 8, 2016)

editor said:


> Because everyone loves to have to drag an adapter about. Great move!



According to you I'd have to be "cursed with sensitive pockets" to tell the difference between an iPhone SE and an Sony Z5 compact, a difference of 25g. I reckon this adapter weighs a tenth of that. How sensitive are your pockets?


----------



## chilango (Sep 8, 2016)

I've had so many head phones over the years fail at the socket that a forceful nudge away from that is probably for the best.

But then, it's not like I can ever afford (or want) new phones till they've been out a couple years anyway. By then we'll see what the headphone landscape looks like. My current set will no doubt be knackered. 

So no big deal for me.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> It's about 3 inches long and will be attached to the end of a cable. It'll make no difference whatsoever!
> 
> And you lost me a fiver.
> 
> I had a bet with someone that you would make that comment before midnight last night!



I can't be the only one with more than one pair of headphones that I like switching between i.e.

Best (massive & comfy) headphones - keep at home for listening to music, or quiet gaming
Work - £20 pair of Sony headphones in the drawer
Gym bag - sweaty earbuds

Fuck having to think about an adapter.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 8, 2016)

mwgdrwg said:


> I can't be the only one with more than one pair of headphones that I like switching between i.e.
> 
> Best (massive & comfy) headphones - keep at home for listening to music, or quiet gaming
> Work - £20 pair of Sony headphones in the drawer
> ...


You're probably one of a handful of people that would be bothered by it. I've got a few of pairs of buds, one which I use more often than others which will have the adapter on, and two pairs of wireless phones which I use pretty much all the time. If I needed a wired connection on different gear, swapping the adapter across would be the least stressful thing that happened in my life that day. 

But yeah, as for "fuck having to think about an adapter", if you're that limited in what you're prepared to _think_ about, you probably should stick to other products!!!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 8, 2016)

I didn't expect the new iPhone to have RAW support for its images


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 8, 2016)

Headphone socket, meh. Nobody will care in 6 months time. However, if they go that way on the iPad as well I'll be fucked off as I won't be able to use one for work in the way I do (need audio + power at the same time on long shows).

That camera on the new 7 plus though... Looks superb. Still don't want such a huge phone though


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> You're probably one of a handful of people that would be bothered by it. I've got a couple of pairs of buds, one which I use more often than others which will have the adapter on, and two pairs of wireless phones which I use pretty much all the time. If I needed a wired connection on different gear, swapping the adapter across would be the least stressful thing I could possibly think of.
> 
> But yeah, as for "fuck having to think about an adapter", if you're that limited in what you're prepared to _think_ about, you probably should stick to other products!!!



I will stick to other products, and continue to enjoy adapter-free headphones.

Also, feel free to stick with your adapters if your mind is empty enough and you haven't got more important things to _think_ about. 

Good day to you, Sir!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 8, 2016)

Fez909 said:


> I imagine they'll survive by not buying an iPhone. This will go down as huge mistake by Apple.


What, just like dropping the floppy disk? Or optical drives? etc etc


----------



## discobastard (Sep 8, 2016)

sim667 said:


> I didn't expect the new iPhone to have RAW support for its images


What does this actually mean in practical terms for me as a user?


----------



## pesh (Sep 8, 2016)

you'll be able to take fairly naff photos with far larger file sizes that will sit on your phone wasting space till you delete them to free up some room to shoot some more.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 8, 2016)

discobastard said:


> What does this actually mean in practical terms for me as a user?


Raw is an uncompressed format, which produces higher quality (and bigger file sizes), but also has much more latitude in terms of post processing adjustments for things like exposure, colour correction, highlights, shadows etc..... On top of that it supports adjustment versioning and is a non  destructive file format.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 8, 2016)

sim667 said:


> Raw is an uncompressed format, which produces higher quality (and bigger file sizes), but also has much more latitude in terms of post processing adjustments for things like exposure, colour correction, highlights, shadows etc..... On top of that it supports adjustment versioning and is a non  destructive file format.


Quite good for the more serious amateur photographer then. 

And of like WAV vs MP3. 

Thanks


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

Those headphone adaptors will be available for a couple of quid on eBay before long.

If you got multiple old school headphones you could just attach a different one to each and not think about it. Job done. I don't get what all the fuss about ugliness and losing them is. It's an old technology that while perfect for the rest of the audio world is a space saving issue that was inevitable.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

I'd have more concerns about losing those air pods actually. They look neat sure, but for the money I'd be worried about misplacing them.

Also 5 hours battery is a bit whack. And they do look a bit 'please mug me for my iphone 7'


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Headphone socket, meh. Nobody will care in 6 months time. However, if they go that way on the iPad as well I'll be fucked off as I won't be able to use one for work in the way I do (need audio + power at the same time on long shows).



2-in-1 adaptors already exist for simultaneous charging and mini-jack audio via one lightning port.

Yet to be answered is if you can use lightning port earbuds and charge the device at the same time. I'd be surprised if that isn't eventually solved by a 2-in-1 an adaptor.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 8, 2016)

I'd be worried about losing an EarPod. The wired ones pop out occasionally, but get caught by the wire. With those there's nothing to stop them falling to the floor/down the nearest drain/crushed under your foot.

The key to all this will be whether Apple let other companies license the clever pairing chip thingy. A pair of decent Sennheisers with the wireless tech in and I'd be handing my money over


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 8, 2016)

How do you charge the ear pods, and do they both have to be charged separately?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 8, 2016)

twentythreedom said:


> How do you charge the ear pods, and do they both have to be charged separately?


Looks like you charge the case, which then tops them up as you're out and about.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 8, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Looks like you charge the case, which then tops them up as you're out and about.


There's a battery in the case? Do you charge the case separately from the phone? Sounds like a faff


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

twentythreedom said:


> There's a battery in the case? Do you charge the case separately from the phone? Sounds like a faff



Presumably yes. It does sound like a faff to me too.

What could've been cool was some kind of detachable airpods from a wired connection. That way they could charge and draw power from the main unit when you don't need wireless. And they could be clipped onto something that you're less likely to lose too.

Even without the paranoia of losing something so small and expensive, 5 hours is an annoyingly short lifespan for these things. That wouldn't get me through most of my flights, door to door. You'd have to carry a wired backup, and the charging case. It just seems like a lot of expensive hassle for such a minor improvement to save having a wire in front of you.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 8, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Quite good for the more serious amateur photographer then.
> 
> And of like WAV vs MP3.
> 
> Thanks



Yeah a bit like that, but its a bit more than just a mp3 vs wav..... The average person would love the ability to make all these adjustments but will just think its down to iOS, without realising the file format of the images makes that possible. It really does open up a lot of possibilities with the editing software they implement, but you will use up space a lot faster.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 8, 2016)

twentythreedom said:


> There's a battery in the case? Do you charge the case separately from the phone? Sounds like a faff


Quite like the idea of the case being the charger.  So it's always topped up when in storage. Then you only have to worry about charging the case every few days (saying it holds 24 hours worth of charge).


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Quite like the idea of the case being the charger.  So it's always topped up when in storage. Then you only have to worry about charging the case every few days (saying it holds 24 hours worth of charge).



Yeah but carrying about of a case everywhere and then the no listening while charging thing is irritating. So I'd end up carrying around a wired pair of headphones to guarantee I've got something that works. Which is even more hassle than just having one wired set of headphones.

Not to mention, big expense, easy to lose, 5 hours battery, a beacon for a mugging opportunity _and_ they'll make you look a bit...


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2016)

well got my Ipad, they kindly knocked off 5% as I complained I was going to buy one yesterday and was told to hold off!


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2016)

Everyone wants more things to charge and more things to run out of juice and more things that use precious energy and more things that can be easily lost and more things that need adaptors. Thank you Apple. This will change everything!


----------



## D'wards (Sep 8, 2016)

I wonder if, super-secretly, Apple make the iphone screens highly smashable, and the new earphones highly loseable, and the chargers highly breakable, cos they make so much money out of replacements?


----------



## mauvais (Sep 8, 2016)

sim667 said:


> Raw is an uncompressed format, which produces higher quality (and bigger file sizes), but also has much more latitude in terms of post processing adjustments for things like exposure, colour correction, highlights, shadows etc..... On top of that it supports adjustment versioning and is a non  destructive file format.


Only if the sensor has that increased latitude in the first place. In this case, it probably does have some, but nothing like a DSLR's extension of capability beyond its normal JPEG outputs.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

The beats x headphones which will have air pod tech built in actually look like a lot better alternative to the apple air pods. A lot less likely to be lost, a lot less likely to be a mugging target, cheaper, black, and they claim you can get 8 hours of use, and 2 hours of use from a 5 minute charge.

Beats X - beats-UK

If I was going to by any wireless headphones it would be something more like those.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 8, 2016)

editor said:


> Because everyone loves to have to *drag an adapter about.* Great move!




lol.


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> lol.


You'll be LOLing even more when you settle in for a long journey and find you're adaptorless. LOL.

Fuck earphones that need charging every 5 hours. That's not a step forward.


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 8, 2016)

editor said:


> Everyone wants more things to charge and more things to run out of juice and more things that use precious energy and more things that can be easily lost and more things that need adaptors. Thank you Apple. This will change everything!



Surely the cutting-edge 720p display more than compensates for all the pissing about.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 8, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Only if the sensor has that increased latitude in the first place. In this case, it probably does have some, but nothing like a DSLR's extension of capability beyond its normal JPEG outputs.


By definition of it being a raw over a jpeg there will be more latitude because a raw won't dispose of information in the way a jpeg does when its written to the memory.

But this is really quite a pedantic point


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 8, 2016)

editor said:


> You'll be LOLing even more when you settle in for a long journey and find you're adaptorless. LOL.



For long journeys I plug my ipod in to my car, AFAIK it's illegal to listen through headphones whilst driving anyway


----------



## mauvais (Sep 8, 2016)

sim667 said:


> By definition of it being a raw over a jpeg there will be more latitude because a raw won't dispose of information in the way a jpeg does when its written to the memory.
> 
> But this is really quite a pedantic point


Not really. Technically, what you describe is true - JPEG is a lossy format that throws away data. But whether RAW provides any tangible benefit (and I'm sure you could save as lossless formats like TIFF already) depends on the sensor. You could have a shit sensor, like early cameraphones, that didn't even utilise the extents of the JPG format. Or you could have one that captures a very wide gamut, only a small section of which makes into the standard rendered image.

DSLRs have had RAW formats since the beginning but what you can extract from them (e.g. bringing back blown highlights) depends on the camera - and is steadily improving over time.

It's a technical point, I know, but it influences whether phone camera RAW is really useful at this stage. We'll have to see I guess.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

IMO, Apple have compromised on battery for style on air pods. But the style isn't practical for me. I'd lose them in a heartbeat.

Beats x however is a much better design, has the same tech, and 8 hours of charge which I could probably live with especially as they have such a short charging up time. Powerbeats3 have 12 hours of charge which is also very reasonable.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 8, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> For long journeys I plug my ipod in to my car, AFAIK it's illegal to listen through headphones whilst driving anyway


It's not illegal per se. You might get done for DWDCA.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 8, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Not really. Technically, what you describe is true - JPEG is a lossy format that throws away data. But whether RAW provides any tangible benefit (and I'm sure you could save as lossless formats like TIFF already) depends on the sensor. You could have a shit sensor, like early cameraphones, that didn't even utilise the extents of the JPG format. Or you could have one that captures a very wide gamut, only a small section of which makes into the standard rendered image.
> 
> DSLRs have had RAW formats since the beginning but what you can extract from them (e.g. bringing back blown highlights) depends on the camera - and is steadily improving over time.
> 
> It's a technical point, I know, but it influences whether phone camera RAW is really useful at this stage. We'll have to see I guess.



In the context of the iPhone however it only offers raw vs jpeg. When you shoot a jpeg and its written it will discard data, when you edit the jpeg and its rewritten, it will discard data.

This won't happen with raw, so its latitude for the scope of editing will be preserved over time. 

Anyway, it doesn't really matter, the point is raw is better quality than jpeg, doesn't degrade with each write but has much bigger file sizes which is what the poster I was originally replying to needs to know.


----------



## Cid (Sep 8, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> The beats x headphones which will have air pod tech built in actually look like a lot better alternative to the apple air pods. A lot less likely to be lost, a lot less likely to be a mugging target, cheaper, black, and they claim you can get 8 hours of use, and 2 hours of use from a 5 minute charge.
> 
> Beats X - beats-UK
> 
> If I was going to by any wireless headphones it would be something more like those.



Fine, but £130 is a fairly high price for in-ear phones; that's Shure SE315s, decent Sennheiser or Bose stuff. But obviously they would be wired. I'm not averse to a move toward wireless phones, and those look vastly more sensible than the Apple ones. But it does mean more batteries, more chargers... Depends on compatibility with other stuff as well.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 8, 2016)

mauvais said:


> It's not illegal per se. You might get done for DWDCA.



It's not illegal to down 8 pints of Stella and get behind the wheel, per se


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

Cid said:


> Fine, but £130 is a fairly high price for in-ear phones; that's Shure SE315s, decent Sennheiser or Bose stuff. But obviously they would be wired. I'm not averse to a move toward wireless phones, and those look vastly more sensible than the Apple ones. But it does mean more batteries, more chargers... Depends on compatibility with other stuff as well.



Of course. I don't disagree with any of that. They're all very expensive for what they are. And I can't even comment on the sound quality because I haven't tried them. I'm just saying that if I did go wireless, I'd be more inclined to those ones because they're better designed to my needs.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 8, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> It's not illegal to down 8 pints of Stella and get behind the wheel, per se


Not if you do it evenly over the course of a week, no.

More seriously, lots of things are explicitly illegal in the RTA, like phone use, and that isn't one.


----------



## Cid (Sep 8, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Of course. I don't disagree with any of that. They're all very expensive for what they are. And I can't even comment on the sound quality because I haven't tried them. I'm just saying that if I did go wireless, I'd be more inclined to those ones because they're better designed to my needs.



I find the Apple ones bizarre - They could have used it as an interesting opportunity to design something that wraps around the ear, or a trendy white neckband or something. But no. Let's make them look like they've had the cable snipped off.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 8, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> What, just like dropping the floppy disk? Or optical drives? etc etc


Those were replaced by things that were objectively better at the job. Faster, more capacity, more convenient. The headphone socket already transmits sound information perfectly. It doesn't actually need replacing.

As for the "space for battery" argument it's just bollocks. The volume of a 3.5mm socket is about 5x5x15mm = 375mm³ which when spread over the entire back of the battery (dims source) equals 0.1mm extra thickness.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 8, 2016)

editor said:


> Fuck earphones that need charging every 5 hours. That's not a step forward.



That's the key point for me - I don't mind shelling out for kit that makes things better/easier/more useable. Airpods fail that test. 

They are easier to lose, they require constant charging, they add to the amount of shit you need to lug about. 

Also, the cost is a disgrace considering anyone wearing them is going to a) look like a knob b) be easy mugger pickings and c) is going to spend loads of money replacing lost Air Pods.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 8, 2016)

Crispy said:


> Those were replaced by things that were objectively better at the job. Faster, more capacity, more convenient. The headphone socket already transmits sound information perfectly. It doesn't actually need replacing.



Exactly.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 8, 2016)

I loathe cables. When I am using headphones on my phone, if I bend down the cable will inevitably get caught on something and rip the headphones out of my ears as I stand up. Not to mention entanglements, dodgy cables etc. 

Wireless headphones should be the norm, like optical mice replaced ball mice. This move by Apple should spur more innovation in the third party wireless headphone segment so before long there will hopefully be wireless headphones that satisfy everyone bar a handful of weirdos.


----------



## Cid (Sep 8, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> I loathe cables. When I am using headphones on my phone, if I bend down the cable will inevitably get caught on something and rip the headphones out of my ears as I stand up. Not to mention entanglements, dodgy cables etc.
> 
> Wireless headphones should be the norm, like optical mice replaced ball mice. This move by Apple should spur more innovation in the third party wireless headphone segment so before long there will hopefully be wireless headphones that satisfy everyone bar a handful of weirdos.



Optical mice may be the norm, but wireless mice aren't. On account of being more expensive and needing charging exactly when you don't want them to.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

Crispy said:


> As for the "space for battery" argument it's just bollocks. The volume of a 3.5mm socket is about 5x5x15mm = 375mm³ which when spread over the entire back of the battery (dims source) equals 0.1mm extra thickness.



I don't think they were saying that the space saving was about the battery capacity though IIRC. It was just space generally. And when the lightning port can do the same job and more, it was an inevitable move IMO.

Also I've had nuff devices with 3.5mm jack inputs that start to fail after a while, and the jack needs twisting about to get stereo to come out. My current iphone 5s is already doing this. They're imperfect connections and I won't miss it TBH.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 8, 2016)

Smokeandsteam said:


> That's the key point for me - I don't mind shelling out for kit that makes things better/easier/more useable. Airpods fail that test.
> 
> They are easier to lose, they require constant charging, they add to the amount of shit you need to lug about.
> 
> Also, the cost is a disgrace considering anyone wearing them is going to a) look like a knob b) be easy mugger pickings and c) is going to spend loads of money replacing lost Air Pods.



And apple headphones historically have been universally shit.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 8, 2016)

Cid said:


> Optical mice may be the norm, but wireless mice aren't. On account of being more expensive and needing charging exactly when you don't want them to.



There is not really a need for wireless mice as they tend to be used on desks and not on the move. Only if you have a really messy desk do they have any purpose. The proportion of wired mice users who report frustrations with the mice cable must be very low, but it sure is very high with headphone users.

The charging capacity will obviously be sorted in time.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 8, 2016)

sim667 said:


> And apple headphones historically have been universally shit.



I would be interested to learn how good they are for the money, given that they look exactly like the crap ones they put in the box with phone minus the wire.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 8, 2016)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I would be interested to learn how good they are for the money, given that they look exactly like the crap ones they put in the box with phone minus the wire.



They'll be the same ones, but wireless...

I.e. shit.


----------



## Cid (Sep 8, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> There is not really a need for wireless mice as they tend to be used on desks and not on the move. Only if you have a really messy desk do they have any purpose. The proportion of wired mice users who report frustrations with the mice cable must be very low, but it sure is very high with headphone users.
> 
> The charging capacity will obviously be sorted in time.



Why obviously? Battery technology has been stalled for ages now, or at least is only improving incrementally. Potential new technologies, but they all seem to be '5-10 years'.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 8, 2016)

sim667 said:


> And apple headphones historically have been universally shit.


The current crop of earpod style ones aren't _that_ bad.  I see an awful lot of people complaining about them (usually about the lack of bass) when they've put them in wrong. They don't go in flat against your ear, you're meant to push the pointy bit down into your ear. Not everyone seems to get this. Of course there's better things out there, but for an awful lot of users they're more than fine.

The original iPod/phone ones however, were rubbish


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 8, 2016)

Crispy said:


> Those were replaced by things that were objectively better at the job. Faster, more capacity, more convenient. The headphone socket already transmits sound information perfectly. It doesn't actually need replacing.


Wireless can also transit the sound perfectly, with the advantage of, errr, being wireless. 

This is just like a lot of other Apple stuff, the line in the sand that becomes the norm in a couple of years time. 12 months from now nobody will give a shit.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The current crop of earpod style ones aren't _that_ bad.  I see an awful lot of people complaining about them (usually about the lack of bass) when they've put them in wrong. They don't go in flat against your ear, you're meant to push the pointy bit down into your ear. Not everyone seems to get this. Of course there's better things out there, but for an awful lot of users they're more than fine.
> 
> The original iPod/phone ones however, were rubbish



True I don't actually mind the current ones. They're much better than the old ipod ones, the bass is fine for general listening, and they're a comfortable design.

And I'm very picky about earbud style earphones. Most of them are either uncomfortable or they block the ear up so much they make you lose spatial awareness and you hear yourself breathing. I think Apple have largely got it right on both counts.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 8, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> This is just like a lot of other Apple stuff, the line in the sand that becomes the norm in a couple of years time. 12 months from now nobody will give a shit.



Have you seen them? No way are they going mass market in 12 months. 

a) people will recognise that they look like knob heads 
b) the requirement to charge them will mean they will lie flat and unused in bags as people root around for their old ones and the adapter


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 8, 2016)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Have you seen them? No way are they going mass market in 12 months.
> 
> a) people will recognise that they look like knob heads
> b) the requirement to charge them will mean they will lie flat and unused in bags as people root around for their old ones and the adapter



They look exactly the same as the old ones, just without the wire  How is losing a dangling wire suddenly making someone look like a "knob head"


----------



## mauvais (Sep 8, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> This is just like a lot of other Apple stuff, the line in the sand that becomes the norm in a couple of years time. 12 months from now nobody will give a shit.


On the other hand, a lot of Apple design or product choices are a flop, but lost amongst the rest.

I dunno. I think three things:

- the specific Apple product of headphones will be a deserved failure
- adoption of wireless headphones may be a qualified success - could go either way
- removing the port will probably become unremarkable over time, though not necessarily copied

Either way it'll never reappear on iPhone.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 8, 2016)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Have you seen them? No way are they going mass market in 12 months.
> 
> a) people will recognise that they look like knob heads
> b) the requirement to charge them will mean they will lie flat and unused in bags as people root around for their old ones and the adapter



people were supposed to look like knobheads when using smartphones with massive screens in excess of four inches.

also, no one was going to be arsed to charge their phone every day were they.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 8, 2016)

mauvais said:


> On the other hand, a lot of Apple design or product choices are a flop, but lost amongst the rest.
> 
> I dunno. I think three things:
> 
> ...


I'm not sure they'll be a failure as such, purely because there's enough people out there you'll buy absolutely fucking  anything with an Apple logo on the box 

Wireless headphones have been on the rise for a while, along with portable speakers. If Apple license the easy connection tech to everyone (they'd be fucking mad not to) then that's just going to speed up the process.

Watch other manufactures follow suit on losing the 3.5mm jack. I'd put money on it.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Sep 8, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They look exactly the same as the old ones, just without the wire  How is losing a dangling wire suddenly making someone look like a "knob head"



Like this:


----------



## Cid (Sep 8, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> people were supposed to look like knobheads when using smartphones with massive screens in excess of four inches.
> 
> also, no one was going to be arsed to charge their phone every day were they.



Saying previous things have succeeded therefore these will be the norm proves nothing really. I mean there are things that have been left behind or just aren't quite there in tech terms (apple watch for example). I'd like wireless earphones (same reasons as you), but 8 hours of continuous use basically renders them pointless for me (5 hours on the Apple ones even more so); I'd have to carry my normal earphones around anyway. Tech isn't quite there.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 8, 2016)

Just caught up with the announcements, iPhone leaves me a bit cold, but tempted by an apple watch now they're waterproofed.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 8, 2016)

Cid said:


> Optical mice may be the norm, but wireless mice aren't. On account of being more expensive and needing charging exactly when you don't want them to.



Unless, of course, you own an iMac. Not only is it wireless, but the charging method renders the mouse impossible to use. Whoever thought that up is a fucking tool.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 8, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'm not sure they'll be a failure as such, purely because there's enough people out there you'll buy absolutely fucking  anything with an Apple logo on the box


Yeh, of course. Doesn't make a market though. Is Apple Watch a genuine success?



beesonthewhatnow said:


> Wireless headphones have been on the rise for a while, along with portable speakers. If Apple license the easy connection tech to everyone (they'd be fucking mad not to) then that's just going to speed up the process.


Portable speakers are a totally different proposition - different use case, very different hardware and capability. Large, closed, banded headphones are somewhere in between. Wireless earbuds aren't completely novel but have a load of new problems. Battery life, battery longevity, ease of loss, lack of ease of use overall, and cost compared to alternatives for a start.



beesonthewhatnow said:


> Watch other manufactures follow suit on losing the 3.5mm jack. I'd put money on it.


I wouldn't rule it out by any means, but I wouldn't be confident enough to bet on it either. Wired and wireless aren't mutually exclusive, for a start, so there's no compulsion to remove it even in the face of the things becoming popular.


----------



## Cid (Sep 8, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I don't think they were saying that the space saving was about the battery capacity though IIRC. It was just space generally. And when the lightning port can do the same job and more, it was an inevitable move IMO.
> 
> Also I've had nuff devices with 3.5mm jack inputs that start to fail after a while, and the jack needs twisting about to get stereo to come out. My current iphone 5s is already doing this. They're imperfect connections and I won't miss it TBH.



I've had one device where the socket itself failed. Funnily enough that was also apple...


----------



## Winot (Sep 8, 2016)

I've had every other iPhone since the 3. I think this'll be the first time I don't bother upgrading - I'm quite happy with the 6 and I'm not sure the 7 offers anything radical over that.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2016)

sim667 said:


> Just caught up with the announcements, iPhone leaves me a bit cold, but tempted by an apple watch now they're waterproofed.



The old one is once you update it to ISO 10


----------



## discobastard (Sep 8, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Yeah but carrying about of a case everywhere and then the no listening while charging thing is irritating. So I'd end up carrying around a wired pair of headphones to guarantee I've got something that works. Which is even more hassle than just having one wired set of headphones.
> 
> Not to mention, big expense, easy to lose, 5 hours battery, a beacon for a mugging opportunity _and_ they'll make you look a bit...


Yeah, but when you're packing the Wasp T12 Speechtool, who cares?  It's well weapon!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 8, 2016)

Not sure anyone's mention the price, £600 for the cheapest incarnation, knocking on a grand for the big one with lots of memory...

My 6's battery is turning to shit though, can it be replaced or must I get a new phone?


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 8, 2016)

also no 64GB?  32 not enough, 128 WAY TOO MUCH SPACE FFS


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

128 will probably be fine for me.

So, is anyone going to pre-order the iPhone 7? Pre-orders start at 8:01am tomorrow.

I want to be able to pick one up on launch day on Sept 16th before I go to the US on 17th. What's the best method here - pre-order online and collect in store? I want to finance it too which which I did last time with the 6. But that wasn't a pre-order. Anyone done this before?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 8, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> 128 will probably be fine for me.
> 
> So, is anyone going to pre-order the iPhone 7? Pre-orders start at 8:01am tomorrow.
> 
> I want to be able to pick one up on launch day on Sept 16th before I go to the US on 17th. What's the best method here - pre-order online and collect in store? I want to finance it too which which I did last time with the 6. But that wasn't a pre-order. Anyone done this before?




Why not get it in the US, they're loads cheaper there, will they not work in the UK or something?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Why not get it in the US, they're loads cheaper there, will they not work in the UK or something?



Not that much cheaper when you add in the state sales tax and the exchange rate. Also I want to finance it.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 8, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Not that much cheaper when you add in the state sales tax and the exchange rate. Also I want to finance it.



£700 for the 128, that's a lot of money for a phone...


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> £700 for the 128, that's a lot of money for a phone...



All the more reason to finance it. Works out to just under £30 a month over 24 months.


----------



## xenon (Sep 8, 2016)

Twats. Fuck arpods. I use headphones and charge  regularly. I dont need a waterproof phone. You cant use touchscreens in rain anyway.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 8, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Watch other manufactures follow suit on losing the 3.5mm jack. I'd put money on it.


Other manufacturers have already started dropping it. The Moto Z has a USB type C adaptor only: The Moto Z doesn't have a headphone jack


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

Jack, jack, ja jack, ja jack your body


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 8, 2016)

Belkin's $40 Lightning Adapter Lets You Listen to Music and Charge Your iPhone 7 at the Same Time


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 8, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Belkin's $40 Lightning Adapter Lets You Listen to Music and Charge Your iPhone 7 at the Same Time



That looks shit. Although as I'm mostly in the car listening to music and use Bluetooth, then it's not really an issue for me if the market goes this way.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 8, 2016)

editor said:


> You'll be LOLing even more when you settle in for a long journey and find you're adaptorless. LOL.
> 
> Fuck earphones that need charging every 5 hours. That's not a step forward.



Well you can stick an adapter on all of your 3.5 jacks, and nobody is making anyone buy the silly wireless buds. Bluetooth headsets will work just fine. Problems (if there were any) solved!

Let's face it, if Apple released a phone with a battery life of two years, a built in teleportation app, and a function which gave the best blow jobs in the world, you'd STILL slag it off!


----------



## Cid (Sep 8, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Well you can stick an adapter on all of your 3.5 jacks, and nobody is making anyone buy the silly wireless buds. Bluetooth headsets will work just fine. Problems (if there were any) solved!
> 
> Let's face it, if Apple released a phone with a battery life of two years, a built in teleportation app, and a function which gave the best blow jobs in the world, you'd STILL slag it off!



'The iSteve function is both really good and incredibly disturbing'.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)




----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 9, 2016)

Can't reserve a 7 Plus for store pickup on Sept 16 but can reserve a 7 

So I go to reserve a 7 and then at checkout it says I can't finance because you can only finance on pre-orders that are delivered to you house 

But you can finance on orders placed in store. But not if they're pickups for pre-orders. Agggh 

Fuck Apple.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Well you can stick an adapter on all of your 3.5 jacks, and nobody is making anyone buy the silly wireless buds. Bluetooth headsets will work just fine. Problems (if there were any) solved!


Have a chat with any DJs you know about the monumental pain in the arse it is when they forget their jack adaptor. And now Apple are making sure that everyone can join in with the fun with the added bonus of headphones that run out of battery after 5 hours. Genius!


Spymaster said:


> Let's face it, if Apple released a phone with a battery life of two years, a built in teleportation app, and a function which gave the best blow jobs in the world, you'd STILL slag it off!


If only Apple showed some innovation like that. They used to, but now they seem more interested in profit and copying other makes.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2016)

Here's what Apple could have done if they put their customers first: introduce the iPhone 7 with both USB-C and a headphone jack so the transition would be less painful (and expensive). An Android phone has already done this. Now that's thinking differently!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> Have a chat with any DJs you know about the monumental pain in the arse it is when they forget their jack adaptor. And now Apple are making sure that everyone can join in with the fun with the added bonus of headphones that run out of battery after 5 hours. Genius!



No proper DJ uses Apple headphones. That's a non issue.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> Here's what Apple could have done if they put their customers first: introduce the iPhone 7 with both USB-C and a headphone jack so the transition would be less painful (and expensive). An Android phone has already done this. Now that's thinking differently!


The_ whole point _was to get rid of the 3.5 jack.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> Have a chat with any DJs you know about the monumental pain in the arse it is when they forget their jack adaptor. And now Apple are making sure that everyone can join in with the fun with the added bonus of headphones that run out of battery after 5 hours. Genius!



I don't think Airpods are designed with DJ'ing in mind. Or any apple headphones to be honest.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2016)

sim667 said:


> I don't think Airpods are designed with DJ'ing in mind. Or any apple headphones to be honest.


The point being with that normal wired earphones you can use anything if push to comes to shove. I once DJd off my phone earphones. Not ideal but better than looking at headphones that won't plug into anything and that will run out of juice unless constantly charged.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> No proper DJ uses Apple headphones. That's a non issue.


It's all about how fucking inconvenient and easy to lose/forget adaptors are, whatever you're using them for.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> It's all about how fucking inconvenient and easy to lose/forget adaptors are, whatever you're using them for.


You are desperately trying to invent a problem that pretty much nobody will have. People who buy the i7 will either go wireless or stick adapters on all their 3.5 jacks. It's *really* no big deal. Anyone who is absolutely desperate to stick their old outdated plugs into their phones, and is too thick to use adapters efficiently has a myriad of other devices to choose from. Apple will survive without their business!


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> You are desperately trying to invent a problem that pretty much nobody will have. People who buy the i7 will either go wireless or stick adapters on all their 3.5 jacks. It's *really* no big deal. Anyone who is absolutely desperate to stick their old outdated plugs into their phones, and is too thick to use adapters efficiently has a myriad of other devices to choose from. Apple will survive without their business!


I'm pretty sure that what most people would like is earphones that *don't* require adaptors to work with existing headphones and just about every other audio device on the planet, or constant charging to work for a short period.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2016)

Yep. Definitely the way forward. 

Want to listen to an iPhone 7 and charge it simultaneously? That'll be £35


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm pretty sure that what most people would like is earphones that *don't* require adaptors to work with existing headphones and just about every other audio device on the planet, or constant charging to work for a short period.


How are you sure? What research have you conducted into the requirements of iPhone users?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> Yep. Definitely the way forward.
> 
> Want to listen to an iPhone 7 and charge it simultaneously? That'll be £35


 

Again, who fucking cares? Really????

I'm pretty sure that I've NEVER needed to do that. Anyone who does will likely wait a few weeks until those adapters start appearing on market stalls for £2.99. Personally I can live without music for the very little time it takes to charge my phone. 

You're struggling here matey!!!!


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> How are you sure? What research have you conducted into the requirements of iPhone users?


I believe the phrase "pretty sure" makes perfect sense. But if you like, let's commission a study together and ask if people prefer expensive earphones that only last 5 hours before they have to be recharged, need a special adaptor to work with other devices  and another if they want to charge the phone as they listen to music vs regular earphones.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2016)

LOL. 

Earth to Apple: wireless Airpod headphones are like a tampon without a string


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> But if you like, let's commission a study together and ask if people prefer expensive earphones that only last 5 hours before they have to be recharged ...


This is a complete canard. I'll be using my Sennheisers with mine and the battery last for about 12 hours which is more than enough. But If I need to plug in I'm perfectly confident in my ability to think. And adapt.



> .... if they want to charge the phone as they listen to music vs regular earphones.



  Dealt with. Got anything else?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> LOL.
> 
> Earth to Apple: wireless Airpod headphones are like a tampon without a string


You're brilliant. Never change!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 9, 2016)

I bet most people who use iphones, either don't use headphones at all, or will be happy using the ones which came with the phone, on that same phone. For everyone else who does use different headphones, the tiny little adaptor, provided free, just clips on at the end of your cans and you can forget about it.

I reckon that's about 99% of the iPhone market who'll now be satisfied that the iPhone 7 is not going to inconvenience their lives to any great extent.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2016)

I'm convinced. And just $159 a pop! Awesome.

Apple kills the headphone jack, launches mediocre wireless earbuds, and calls it ‘courage’ | ExtremeTech

Dear Apple, this is not how you start a wireless revolution


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I bet most people who use iphones, either don't use headphones at all, or will be happy using the ones which came with the phone, on that same phone. For everyone else who does use different headphones, the tiny little adaptor, provided free, just clips on at the end of your cans and you can forget about it.


Why doesn't Editor get this?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 9, 2016)

I agree that the wireless ear pods are whack. But nobody is being forced to buy those.

I don't agree that the lightning only port is such a big problem. They made the case for it. Space is at a premium with all the components they're trying to squeeze in, and lightning port can do the same job, and better. And an adaptor is free to everyone who wants one.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm convinced. And just $159 a pop! Awesome.
> 
> Apple kills the headphone jack, launches mediocre wireless earbuds, and calls it ‘courage’ | ExtremeTech
> 
> Dear Apple, this is not how you start a wireless revolution


You know what? They're not compulsory.

Most of us already have far better equipment that'll work just fine.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm convinced. And just $159 a pop! Awesome.
> 
> Apple kills the headphone jack, launches mediocre wireless earbuds, and calls it ‘courage’ | ExtremeTech
> 
> Dear Apple, this is not how you start a wireless revolution


I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that the only people who give a fuck about this are tech blog writers. And that they don't actually give a fuck, they just need to bash out a couple of paragraphs of bullshit to meet a deadline.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that the only people who give a fuck about this are tech blog writers. And that they don't actually give a fuck, they just need to bash out a couple of paragraphs of bullshit to meet a deadline.


Try talking to some of your friends and see what they think about it. Even my friends who are arse-clenchingly pro-Apple think these adaptors (and lack of simultaneous charging) are a really fucking shit idea.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

Of course they do!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> Try talking to some of your friends and see what they think about it. Even my friends who are arse-clenchingly pro-Apple think these adaptors (and lack of simultaneous charging) are a really fucking shit idea.


1 - place adapter on headphone cable
2 - never have to do anything else ever again

It really is that simple. It's a non issue. 

The charging/playback thing is an issue. For a very small percentage of users. Solutions, however inelegant*, are available. 

Literally nobody else cares. Most people will buy an iphone7, take the supplied buds out of the box and use them. Those with more money may go out and buy an alternative set, possibly even the new EarPod thingies. The world will turn, the sun will rise and not a single fuck more will be given.




*Although I've had a thought about this, as I'm one of those people. Right now, I'm sat in front of a mixing desk. My phone is attached to it for music playback, plus it's also plugged into a charger. Now, when I next go to catering I will have to unplug two cables if I want to take my phone with me, and on my return plug two back in. With that new Belkin adaptor I'd only have to unplug and plug one cable. My workplace efficiency has just doubled! Thanks Apple


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 9, 2016)

Have you ever been abroad and and used a UK -> Foreign sockets power adapter?

I have a lamp with a standard ES fitting for light bulbs. If I wanted to fit one of my bayonet bulbs I could buy a BC->ES adapter. Isn't life wonderful?

My Samsung TV doesn't have a SCART socket. I don't care but if I did I'd use a SCART -> HDMI adapter.

My PC only has one PS/2 port. I don't care but if I did I'd use a PS/2 -> USB adapter.

Adapters are part of life as things evolve. Perhaps we should have stuck to the early days of electrical wiring and telegraphy, then we could all splice the wires together whichever way suited us.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> I loathe cables. When I am using headphones on my phone, if I bend down the cable will inevitably get caught on something and rip the headphones out of my ears as I stand up. Not to mention entanglements, dodgy cables etc.
> 
> Wireless headphones should be the norm, like optical mice replaced ball mice. This move by Apple should spur more innovation in the third party wireless headphone segment so before long there will hopefully be wireless headphones that satisfy everyone bar a handful of weirdos.



This.

Sent from my iPhone just to annoy Fandroids


.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 9, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone just to annoy Fandroids
> 
> ...


You're a special kind of idiot.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2016)

sim667 said:


> Just caught up with the announcements, iPhone leaves me a bit cold, but tempted by an apple watch now they're waterproofed.



I like the look of the camera on the plus. It seems that instead of a watch and a phone apple now sell a camera and fitness device....

Sent from my iPhone because it knows you want it, hard.


.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 9, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Again, who fucking cares? Really????
> 
> I'm pretty sure that I've NEVER needed to do that. Anyone who does will likely wait a few weeks until those adapters start appearing on market stalls for £2.99. Personally I can live without music for the very little time it takes to charge my phone.
> 
> You're struggling here matey!!!!



I charge my phone and listen to music at the same time lots, mostly because I'm also using my phone for other things as well as listening to music so the battery will only last an hour or two. My phone takes ~2hrs to charge fully from flat, I don't want to stop listening to music for that much time, or even for 20/30 min to get some charge back in, as I'm generally on a train in those situations and really want to be listening to music.
Adaptors get lost all the time ime and the lack of standard headphone jack would send me to looking for a different android phone. I mean it's not like it's a disaster (although there have been times in my previous professional life I have been unable to plug in people's macbooks into my projector because they have lost the VGA/DVI adaptor, so often that I started carrying them myself to avoid disasters). It's not like needing an adaptor is an advantage or a good thing and I'm totally unconvinced of the benefits of dropping the 3.5mm jack.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

BigTom said:


> I charge my phone and listen to music at the same time lots, mostly because I'm also using my phone for other things as well as listening to music so the battery will only last an hour or two. My phone takes ~2hrs to charge fully from flat, I don't want to stop listening to music for that much time, or even for 20/30 min to get some charge back in, as I'm generally on a train in those situations and really want to be listening to music.
> Adaptors get lost all the time ime and the lack of standard headphone jack would send me to looking for a different android phone. I mean it's not like it's a disaster (although there have been times in my previous professional life I have been unable to plug in people's macbooks into my projector because they have lost the VGA/DVI adaptor, so often that I started carrying them myself to avoid disasters). It's not like needing an adaptor is an advantage or a good thing and I'm totally unconvinced of the benefits of dropping the 3.5mm jack.


Then, Tom, don't buy an i7! 

And what kind of phone have you got that takes 2 hours to charge?


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 9, 2016)

You'd think all phone manufacturers had agreed to remove the headphone socket from all existing phones effective immediately.

In actual fact there are a large number of smartphones to choose from that have headphone sockets.


----------



## BigTom (Sep 9, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Then, Tom, don't buy an i7!
> 
> And what kind of phone have you got that takes 2 hours to charge?



I won't be  If it was the only phone available I might be annoyed about this, as it is, I couldn't care less as I can get other phones that work just as well and have the headphone jack I want. I do think that lots of people charge whilst listening to music though.

Yotaphone 2 is my phone (andriod smartphone with an additional e-ink screen on the back) but that kind of time is what I remember my older smartphones needing to fully charge from flat too, has been a year or so though.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> You'd think all phone manufacturers had agreed to remove the headphone socket from all existing phones effective immediately.
> 
> In actual fact there are a large number of smartphones to choose from that have headphone sockets.


Some of them can even be charged whilst the headphones are being used.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2016)

mauvais said:


> You're a special kind of idiot.



Lol you weren't born with a sense of humour i take it?[emoji23]

Sent from my iPhone because it's ALIIIIVE!


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> You'd think all phone manufacturers had agreed to remove the headphone socket from all existing phones effective immediately.
> 
> In actual fact there are a large number of smartphones to choose from that have headphone sockets.



Indeed. The reaction to this feels more than a little forced if you ask me. People just need to be outraged by Apple it seems...

Sent from my iPhone because it knows you like reading irrelevant things...


.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 9, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Lol you weren't born with a sense of humour i take it?[emoji23]
> 
> Sent from my iPhone because it's ALIIIIVE!
> 
> ...


What's funny about you? You don't add anything, you're too stupid/wilfully annoying to actually turn off your signature, and then you add another one on top of that just to piss people off.

As OU once put it, 'fuck off'.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> The point being with that normal wired earphones you can use anything if push to comes to shove. I once DJd off my phone earphones. Not ideal but better than looking at headphones that won't plug into anything and that will run out of juice unless constantly charged.



For which you'd have to have been carrying an adapter, or at least borrowed one off someone no?


----------



## souljacker (Sep 9, 2016)

I think the thing that is annoying is that the 3.5mm jack was so good at what it did, which is why its been around for 100 odd years. SCART to HDMI gave you better video signals, PS/2 to USB worked better. 3.5mm to lightning doesn't give any benefits at all.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Indeed. The reaction to this feels more than a little forced if you ask me. People just need to be outraged by Apple it seems...


It always amuses me that it's people who are never going to use an Apple product who seem the most concerned about their supposed shortcomings.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2016)

souljacker said:


> I think the thing that is annoying is that the 3.5mm jack was so good at what it did, which is why its been around for 100 odd years. SCART to HDMI gave you better video signals, PS/2 to USB worked better. 3.5mm to lightning doesn't give any benefits at all.


It does open up the possibility of better audio. Whether that happens remains to be seen.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 9, 2016)

souljacker said:


> I think the thing that is annoying is that the 3.5mm jack was so good at what it did, which is why its been around for 100 odd years. SCART to HDMI gave you better video signals, PS/2 to USB worked better. 3.5mm to lightning doesn't give any benefits at all.



It was invented by Sony for the Walkman, prior to that people used 6.4mm jacks - I bet you'd love it if all phones had those.


----------



## xenon (Sep 9, 2016)

Anyway what I meant to say yesterday.

I use my phone a lot all day, with the headphones in. OK, I'm using VoiceOver, so want the privacy. I listen to music to drop off to sleep and obviously this being the end of the day, I need to charge my phone. I could risk leaving it til the next morning but since my phone is my alarm clock too...

TL/DR removing the headphone jack is a stupid, annoying, unwanted and arrogant, actively agrovating move by Apple.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 9, 2016)

xenon said:


> Anyway what I meant to say yesterday.
> 
> I use my phone a lot all day, with the headphones in. OK, I'm using VoiceOver, so want the privacy. I listen to music to drop off to sleep and obviously this being the end of the day, I need to charge my phone. I could risk leaving it til the next morning but since my phone is my alarm clock too...
> 
> TL/DR removing the headphone jack is a stupid, annoying, unwanted and arrogant, actively agrovating move by Apple.



They came to visit you and removed the headphone jack from your phone? Perhaps you should call the police.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

xenon said:


> TL/DR removing the headphone jack is a stupid, annoying, unwanted and arrogant, actively agrovating move by Apple.


Why are you getting so stressed about it? Are you going to buy an i7?

If not, don't worry about it.


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## mauvais (Sep 9, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> It always amuses me that it's people who are never going to use an Apple product who seem the most concerned about their supposed shortcomings.


For better or worse, what Apple does comes to affect us all in the end.

Plus it's not like you can avoid hearing about the damn things.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 9, 2016)

xenon said:


> Anyway what I meant to say yesterday.
> 
> I use my phone a lot all day, with the headphones in. OK, I'm using VoiceOver, so want the privacy. I listen to music to drop off to sleep and obviously this being the end of the day, I need to charge my phone. I could risk leaving it til the next morning but since my phone is my alarm clock too...
> 
> TL/DR removing the headphone jack is a stupid, annoying, unwanted and arrogant, actively agrovating move by Apple.



Of all the issues, the charging and listening is the only thing I can agree is a bit of a hassle. Solved by an adaptor though. But still it's another thing to buy. I also listen to my phone in bed with headphones so I may need to get one just for that.

I just don't agree that its such a big deal, or a mistake by Apple. Listening on headphones and charging in bed isn't something most people will want to do. So we are a tiny fraction of people who will be put out by this. But the way people are going on it's like it's the end of the world.


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## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

mauvais said:


> For better or worse, what Apple does comes to affect us all in the end.


See this editor?

Give up now.


----------



## xenon (Sep 9, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Why are you getting so stressed about it? Are you going to buy an i7?
> 
> If not, don't worry about it.




Well not actually stressed.  But it is a dum idea. Not buying an iphone for several years, got a 6S.


----------



## xenon (Sep 9, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Of all the issues, the charging and listening is the only thing I can agree is a bit of a hassle. Solved by an adaptor though. But still it's another thing to buy. I also listen to my phone in bed with headphones so I may need to get one just for that.
> 
> I just don't agree that its such a big deal, or a mistake by Apple. Listening on headphones and charging in bed isn't something most people will want to do. So we are a tiny fraction of people who will be put out by this. But the way people are going on it's like it's the end of the world.




It's change for changesake. Seriously, what use is a waterproof phone. Just don't drop it in the bog. You can't use it when the screen's wet anyway. The stereo speakers is a good move, I'll give them that though.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

xenon said:


> Seriously, what use is a waterproof phone.


Are you kidding?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 9, 2016)

ed's right, I've just lobbed all my i-phone 7's in the bin.

TAKE THAT APPLE


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 9, 2016)

xenon said:


> It's change for changesake. Seriously, what use is a waterproof phone. Just don't drop it in the bog. You can't use it when the screen's wet anyway. The stereo speakers is a good move, I'll give them that though.



Come on. How many people have fucked their iPhone up because it got wet. It's undoubtedly a good thing to have a waterproof phone.


----------



## xenon (Sep 9, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Are you kidding?



No. Does your touchscreen phone work when it's wet. or have they corrected / fixed how the capacitive screen works?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 9, 2016)

xenon said:


> No. Does your touchscreen phone work when it's wet. or have they corrected / fixed how the capacitive screen works?



It's not about making the screen work when it's wet. It's about making it not die when it drops in some water.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2016)

xenon said:


> No. Does your touchscreen phone work when it's wet. or have they corrected / fixed how the capacitive screen works?


What are you on about?

A water resistant phone would have saved me 2 phones. It is the singularly most useful feature of recently released smartphones, imo.


----------



## Fez909 (Sep 9, 2016)

xenon said:


> No. Does your touchscreen phone work when it's wet. or have they corrected / fixed how the capacitive screen works?


Mine does. Mine's a waterproof phone though. The iPhone is splashproof. Don't think you can take it swimming. It's not going to end well...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2016)

xenon said:


> Seriously, what use is a waterproof phone.


Yeah, I can't think of a single reason why having a waterproof phone is a good thing. Nothing at all.


----------



## xenon (Sep 9, 2016)

Is dropping phones in water that common then? Clumsy divs.  Done it once in 18 years. Nokia e52. It survived.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 9, 2016)

It's IP67 certified

“_Apple Watch is splash and water resistant but not waterproof. You can, for example, wear and use Apple Watch during exercise, in the rain, and while washing your hands, but submerging Apple Watch is not recommended.”_

IP67 vs IP68: Waterproof IP ratings explained


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 9, 2016)

I'd like a waterproof phone, not just from accidently dropping it in water, but when out walking in heavy rain.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 9, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I'd like a waterproof phone, not just from accidently dropping it in water, but when out walking in heavy rain.



I'd like one for swimming,


"I'm in the pool!, What? Sorry, some prat's splashing..."


----------



## belboid (Sep 9, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I bet most people who use iphones, either don't use headphones at all, or will be happy using the ones which came with the phone, on that same phone. For everyone else who does use different headphones, the tiny little adaptor, provided free, just clips on at the end of your cans and you can forget about it.
> 
> I reckon that's about 99% of the iPhone market who'll now be satisfied that the iPhone 7 is not going to inconvenience their lives to any great extent.


No chance.  Everyone I know uses the headphones, at least occasionally. Almost everyone I know replaces the apple headphones straight away, as the free ones are crap and uncomfortable. Adapters are just an other ting to lose, break, or forget, they're shit, and everyone knows it. In the medium to long term, wireless are clearly going to be the way forward, but they just aren't there yet - not enough battery life n a cheapish pair (altho 8 hours is fine for 99.9% of people), and the ones apple are showing look way too easy to lose. If you could charge them by plugging them into the lightning input, then that'll be fine as well.  They should have waited till iPhone 8, really.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 9, 2016)

editor said:


> LOL.
> 
> Earth to Apple: wireless Airpod headphones are like a tampon without a string


Yes even the Guardian sound like idiots here. 

It's *just* possible that they'll ship with a neck cord. 

And if they don't, then there will be lots to choose from from 3rd parties!


----------



## snadge (Sep 9, 2016)

xenon said:


> Is dropping phones in water that common then? Clumsy divs.  Done it once in 18 years. Nokia e52. It survived.




The amount of women I know that have dumped phones down the bog when going for a piss.

Disadvantages of having a phone in your back pocket and having to pull down yer jeans to sit down for a piss.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 9, 2016)

belboid said:


> No chance.  Everyone I know uses the headphones, at least occasionally. Almost everyone I know replaces the apple headphones straight away, as the free ones are crap and uncomfortable. Adapters are just an other ting to lose, break, or forget, they're shit, and everyone knows it. In the medium to long term, wireless are clearly going to be the way forward, but they just aren't there yet - not enough battery life n a cheapish pair (altho 8 hours is fine for 99.9% of people), and the ones apple are showing look way too easy to lose. If you could charge them by plugging them into the lightning input, then that'll be fine as well.  They should have waited till iPhone 8, really.




Never used my headphones.


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## souljacker (Sep 9, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> It was invented by Sony for the Walkman, prior to that people used 6.4mm jacks - I bet you'd love it if all phones had those.


I'm not sure that's true. It was definitely on those portable fm radios you could get in the early 70s.


beesonthewhatnow said:


> It does open up the possibility of better audio. Whether that happens remains to be seen.



How though? I know you can argue that, up to the point of the speaker vibrating, it's a digital stream. But I can't see how that makes a difference. And I've never heard anyone complaining about the TRS jack (that has been around for 100 years). I know it's a cliche that if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but it fits for this case. Or more accurately, if your fix adds nothing, it ain't broke.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 9, 2016)

souljacker said:


> I'm not sure that's true. It was definitely on those portable fm radios you could get in the early 70s.
> 
> 
> How though? I know you can argue that, up to the point of the speaker vibrating, it's a digital stream. But I can't see how that makes a difference. And I've never heard anyone complaining about the TRS jack (that has been around for 100 years). I know it's a cliche that if it ain't broke, don't fix it, but it fits for this case. Or more accurately, if your fix adds nothing, it ain't broke.


It opens up possibilities. Headphones that monitor the environment around you and apply DSP to correct the audio in real time for example.

Edit - DSP = digital signal processing


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> It always amuses me that it's people who are never going to use an Apple product who seem the most concerned about their supposed shortcomings.



Indeed, both amusing and baffling. Why on earth would you get so annoyed about something YOU WILL NEVER WILLINGLY OWN?![emoji23]


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 9, 2016)

mauvais said:


> What's funny about you? You don't add anything, you're too stupid/wilfully annoying to actually turn off your signature, and then you add another one on top of that just to piss people off.
> 
> As OU once put it, 'fuck off'.



Oh get a life. It was just a bit of silliness and if you can't see that you're clearly a life in need of less cuntness![emoji23]

Sent from my iPhone because it's laughing at humourless sad cunts like you.


.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 9, 2016)

Yeah. Fuck off.


----------



## strung out (Sep 9, 2016)

Just giving my opinion as someone who was seriously thinking of getting one of the new iPhones - I've never had one before, but I have got a Macbook, an iPad, an iPod nano, and a £200 Apple voucher for recycling my old iMac, burning a hole in my pocket.

Personally the headphone connector issue is genuinely annoying. I like to use my own headphones, and while I know an adaptor fixes the issue, it is such an inelegant solution that it just puts me off buying something as elegant as an iPhone. I like to use my headphones on other devices (such as my work PC to watch videos silently) and having to constantly attach/unattach adaptors, while not being an absolute game breaker, is a genuine annoyance.

Additionally they've discontinued the space grey colour, which was in my opinion the most stylish version they had, with black being too boring and the other colours way too garish (for my tastes).

Finally, even with the £200 voucher, the price of £700 for a decently sized iPhone is absolutely eye watering. I know some of the top end Android phones are pretty pricey too nowadays, but I don't know if I can justify that huge an outlay, for something that just isn't pressing my buttons in the way the 6 did when it came out.

Anyone want to buy a £200 Apple voucher off me btw?


----------



## mauvais (Sep 9, 2016)

An S7 is £475 now, and even the Edge is £560, so that is a bit extreme. Might drop off I guess and it's partly exchange rate.

As for the voucher, I'm considering a Mac Mini for app development but someone will have had it off you by the time I get around to that


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 10, 2016)

strung out said:


> Personally the headphone connector issue is genuinely annoying. I like to use my own headphones, and while I know an adaptor fixes the issue, it is such an inelegant solution that it just puts me off buying something as elegant as an iPhone. I like to use my headphones on other devices (such as my work PC to watch videos silently) and having to constantly attach/unattach adaptors, while not being an absolute game breaker, is a genuine annoyance.


This is more or less how I feel. I spend the majority of my working day hopping between Conf calls on my iPhone and Skype calls on my PC. I need to charge my phone while I talk and need to swap ear phones between the 2 devices. 

As you say probably not a deal breaker but having to use adaptors when I don't have to now seems a backward step. Wasn't going to upgrade until next years 8 anyway so will see how it goes.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

I think the main attraction here is not the argument about the merits of these easily-lost expensive headphones, but the way that Apple fans have managed to convince themselves that swapping one battery-free technology that works splendidly with just about every audio device on the planet for one that needs adaptors and constant, persistent recharging is something that has no drawbacks at all. None.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> swapping one battery-free technology that works splendidly with just about every audio device on the planet for one that needs adaptors and constant, persistent recharging is something that has no drawbacks at all. None.



You could apply that to mobile telephones tbf.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> I think the main attraction here is not the argument about the merits of these easily-lost expensive headphones, but the way that Apple fans have managed to convince themselves that swapping one battery-free technology that works splendidly with just about every audio device on the planet for one that needs adaptors and constant, persistent recharging is something that has no drawbacks at all. None.


The main attraction here is YOU!


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> You could apply that to mobile telephones tbf.


Err, what? Smartphones introduced a shitload of genuinely useful new functionality to old school mobile phones, and recently the battery life has been improving considerably. Now tell me what amazing benefits the average user gets by switching to Apple's more expensive, proprietary technology (and having yet another thing that needs to be charged - in this case every 5 hours),  and how those advantages are so immense that it's worth sacrificing the worldwide-standard, no-battery-needed wired earphones? Who the fuck wants extra adaptors? What audio gains do people get from all this?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> Err, what? Smartphones introduced a shitload of genuinely useful new functionality to old school mobile phones, and recently the battery life has been improving considerably. Now tell me what amazing benefits the average user gets by switching to Apple's more expensive, proprietary technology (and having yet another thing that needs to be charged - in this case every 5 hours),  and how those advantages are so immense that it's worth sacrificing the worldwide-standard, no-battery-needed wired earphones?


 Nothing's being sacrificed.


----------



## gosub (Sep 10, 2016)

Will there be queues to buy this thing?


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Nothing's being sacrificed.


Enjoy spending your money and all that lovely recharging! And, of course, losing them!

Don't Buy Apple's AirPods

Apple AirPods: Smart engineering meets shoddy design – Tech2

You're going to need 'courage' to wear Apple's goofy AirPods outside


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> Enjoy spending your money and all that lovely recharging! And, of course, losing them!


 How many times do you need to be told I WON'T BE BUYING THEM!

Anyone who wishes to use the i7 wirelessly has the option of using ANY of the thousands of other, non-Apple products. NOBODY IS BEING FORCED TO USE THE AIRPODS. 

But you're funny, so keep going!


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> How many times do you need to be told I WON'T BE BUYING THEM!
> 
> Anyone who wishes to use them wirelessly has the option of using ANY of the thousands of other, non-Apple products. NOBODY IS BEING FORCED TO USE THE AIRPODS.
> 
> But you're funny, so keep going!


It'll be even funnier when you're on a long journey and want to do something really crazy like charge your phone while you're listening to music.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> It'll be even funnier when you're on a long journey and want to do something really crazy like charge your phone while you're listening to music.


It'll be the end of my world I tell you! THE END OF MY WORLD!!!! 

Especially if I've forgotten my adapter!


----------



## ska invita (Sep 10, 2016)

belboid said:


> They should have waited till iPhone 8, really.


releasing something that immediately needs upgarding is no mistake, its the way apple business.


----------



## gosub (Sep 10, 2016)

ska invita said:


> releasing something that immediately needs upgarding is no mistake, its the way apple business.



Read something last month that it was to get the bitching out the way before Iphone 8


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 10, 2016)

They can just change the battery. Oh hang on.

Seriously though I'm not sure why you post so much on Apple threads editor. It's obvious your not going to buy one and yet millions will.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> They can just change the battery. Oh hang on.
> 
> Seriously though I'm not sure why you post so much on Apple threads editor. It's obvious your not going to buy one and yet millions will.


Actually, I had an iPhone once and I'm interested in technology. Apple have - in the past - produced some amazing stuff but it's weird seeing how some people are unable to accept any kind of criticism about their latest products. I still like to point out the obvious flaws in the company's 'courageous' (LOL) decisions though.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> I still like to point out the obvious flaws ...


No shit! I like the way that you make your own up as well.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> No shit! I like the way that you make your own up as well.


Adaptors! The way forward for fanboys!


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> Adaptors! The way forward for fanboys!


YEEEE HAAAA!


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

What do you think Apple's best current product is, editor ?


----------



## gosub (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> What do you think Apple's best current product is, editor ?


they do some state of the art accountancy stuff


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> What do you think Apple's best current product is, editor ?


The Macbook Air. Lovely machines (but now much harder to justify in the face of machines like the Chromebook Flip).


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> The Macbook Air.


What about phones, historically?


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> What about phones, historically?


What about them?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> What about them?


What are your favourite Apple phones?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Yeah. Fuck off.



[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> What are your favourite Apple phones?


None at the moment. I think they've overpriced. I liked the 3S enough to buy it with my own money but nothing has moved me much since for the prices they've been asking. 

I think the Xperia Compact z3 represents far better value and that's why I'm still using it. Can't see any reason at all to shell out loads more for any other phone, Android or Apple.

I trust that answers your question in full.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> Actually, I had an iPhone once and I'm interested in technology. Apple have - in the past - produced some amazing stuff but it's weird seeing how some people are unable to accept any kind of criticism about their latest products. I still like to point out the obvious flaws in the company's 'courageous' (LOL) decisions though.



Lol you had a 3GS for barely a month. Not sure exactly relevant experience in this day and age![emoji23]

Sent from my iPhone which is currently laughing at silly data points...


.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> I trust that answers your question in full.


Not quite. What did you like about the 3S?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 10, 2016)

The more I think about it the more those wireless earphones look pretty damn interesting. Think we will see some health related stuff from them...


.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Not quite. What did you like about the 3S?


It totally fucked up and I had terrible after sales service. And I hated Apple's controlling ways about music and other aspects of the phone.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> It totally fucked up and I had terrible after sales service. And I hated Apple's controlling ways about music and other aspects of the phone.


That's what you _liked_ about it?


----------



## mhendo (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Not quite. What did you like about the 3S?





editor said:


> It totally fucked up and I had terrible after sales service. And I hated Apple's controlling ways about music and other aspects of the phone.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> That's what you _liked_ about it?


It liked it until it fucked up and became a major pain in the arse. It was the most expensive phone I'd ever owned so I was seriously pissed off. Is that so hard to understand?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> It liked it until it fucked up and became a major pain in the arse. It was the most expensive phone I'd ever owned so I was seriously pissed off. Is that so hard to understand?


Well it's more understandable now that you've clarified your previous mistake. 

What fucked-up on the 3S?


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Well it's more understandable now that you've clarified your previous mistake.
> 
> What fucked-up on the 3S?


It was documented here if you're that fascinated.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

editor said:


> It was documented here if you're that fascinated.


Oh, fantastic, I'll be sure to look it up. Have you got a link? 

Tell me, what's so fantastic about the Macbook Air?


----------



## mauvais (Sep 10, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Oh, fantastic, I'll be sure to look it up. Have you got a link?
> 
> Tell me, what's so fantastic about the Macbook Air?


He's right about the Macbook Air. Like the best of Apple stuff, it pushes the boundaries for design across all brands.

Much as I disagree with editor regularly on consumer stuff, he is fundamentally right on this one. The significance might be overinflated but somewhere in there the point is right.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Much as I disagree with editor regularly on consumer stuff, he is fundamentally right on this one.


Don't be daft!


----------



## strung out (Sep 10, 2016)

mauvais said:


> He's right about the Macbook Air. Like the best of Apple stuff, it pushes the boundaries for design across all brands.
> 
> Much as I disagree with editor regularly on consumer stuff, he is fundamentally right on this one. The significance might be overinflated but somewhere in there the point is right.


I agree. While it's not the end of the world, the headphone socket/adaptor change is just shit. Annoying and shit.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 10, 2016)

Apple Plug: Our lightest product ever.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 12, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Come on. How many people have fucked their iPhone up because it got wet. It's undoubtedly a good thing to have a waterproof phone.



I used to work in a darkroom...... this would have saved numerous phones

A lot of ladies I know have dropped theres in the loo buy having it in the back pocket and it falling out as they drop their trousers to take a piss.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 12, 2016)

Worth reminding that this whole waterproofing business is only any use against fresh water. Drop your phone in the sea or some weird chemicals, don't rinse it off, and things like the connector contacts can still degrade. Or possibly even do something nasty quite fast.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 12, 2016)

Never ever broken, lost or water damaged a Iphone since I got a 3, had a 4,5 and now have a 6 (however I do have a decent case for the 6)


----------



## Winot (Sep 12, 2016)

Ranbay said:


> Never ever broken, lost or water damaged a Iphone since I got a 3, had a 4,5 and now have a 6 (however I do have a decent case for the 6)



Identical experience here.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 12, 2016)

Say that the number of people I see in work (3k people in this building) with broken screens and still using the phone does make me laugh.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2016)

mhendo said:


>



[emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 12, 2016)

Ranbay said:


> Apple Plug: Our lightest product ever.



Haha love it![emoji23]


.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2016)

$10 will get you a wire for your wireless AirPods

http://tcrn.ch/2cV2gaH


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2016)

Get this

Apple fans begin queueing for the new iPhone 7 FIVE DAYS early

"with *professional sitters *charging £2,500 a week to save a spot"


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2016)

I've actually seen this in the flesh, the queue in NY for the iPhone 1 stretching back blocks and blocks.

Some guy offering his spot for like $5k and I overheard him saying he'd already turned down $4k 

It's lunacy at best.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 13, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Get this
> 
> Apple fans begin queueing for the new iPhone 7 FIVE DAYS early
> 
> "with *professional sitters *charging £2,500 a week to save a spot"


Ill believe it when I see it in a paper that isn't the daily mail.


----------



## Winot (Sep 13, 2016)

I noticed that the Regent Street store is now completely closed for renovation (previously they had the basement open). Odd timing. Presumably the queue will be twice as long at the Covent Garden store.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2016)

On pre-order launch day there were no available iPhone 7's to pick up on release day in London except in Brent Cross when I looked.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2016)

Winot said:


> I noticed that the Regent Street store is now completely closed for renovation (previously they had the basement open). Odd timing. Presumably the queue will be twice as long at the Covent Garden store.


Probably the only way they can get anything approaching a less than modest queue of hysterical fanboys these days.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2016)

Just installed iOS 10. All seems to be working fine so far...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 13, 2016)

What no hysterical posts from Apple haters about the upgrade issues which were fixed in less than an hour?[emoji848]


.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 13, 2016)

Been sending dick pics all night *drawn ones that is* love it


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2016)

iPhone 7 review roundup: how big a problem is the absent headphone jack?

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/13/iphone-7-review-roundup-headphone-jack


----------



## sim667 (Sep 14, 2016)

Liking iOS 10 so far, haven't quite got my head around the in message app stuff, but I don't know anyone else who's upgraded yet.

Shame the raise to wake doesn't seem to working on iPhone 6


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 14, 2016)

editor said:


> iPhone 7 review roundup: how big a problem is the absent headphone jack?
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/13/iphone-7-review-roundup-headphone-jack


Answer - "not much, really"


----------



## chilango (Sep 14, 2016)

iOS 10 is a definite step forward, albeit in small ways. I like it so far!


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Answer - "not much, really"


I always love seeing the Reality Distortion Effect in action.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 14, 2016)

editor said:


> I always love seeing the Reality Distortion Effect in action.


The overwhelming consensus from reviews is that for the vast majority of users it simply won't be a big deal. There will be a minority of users for whom it will be a pain, and and even smaller set for which it will be a deal breaker. 

As usual, Ars Technica has the best take on it.

iPhone 7 and 7 Plus review: Great annual upgrades with one major catch


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 14, 2016)

The major downside is that so far Apple won't be licensing the W1 chip to outside manufactures. This seems incredibly short sighted.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The overwhelming consensus from reviews is that for the vast majority of users it simply won't be a big deal. There will be a minority of users for whom it will be a pain, and and even smaller set for which it will be a deal breaker.
> 
> As usual, Ars Technica has the best take on it.
> 
> iPhone 7 and 7 Plus review: Great annual upgrades with one major catch


"Major catch". That's MAJOR. A big thing.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 14, 2016)

editor said:


> "Major catch". That's MAJOR. A big thing.



A small thing actually:


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 14, 2016)

editor said:


> iPhone 7 review roundup: how big a problem is the absent headphone jack?
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/13/iphone-7-review-roundup-headphone-jack


Do you sit at your computer all day searching for negative Apple reviews?  

Don't you get bored after a while? I don't see what you get out of it.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 14, 2016)

editor said:


> "Major catch". That's MAJOR. A big thing.


It doesn't worry any users of the phone anywhere near as much as it does you!


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> It doesn't worry any users of the phone anywhere near as much as it does you!


Doesn't worry me in the slightest but it's always a joy to see the Fanboy Reality Shield in action. It amuses me no end. Must. Defend. The. Multi-billion. Corporate. No. Matter. What.

Pure comedy to me. Well, if I'm bored enough, and I'm on a train now so it's a perfect soupcon of entertainment.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 14, 2016)

editor said:


> Must. Defend. The. Multi-billion. Corporate. No. Matter. What.



Must argue against the user who has a bee in their bonnet about something more like.


----------



## Nivag (Sep 14, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> A small thing actually:


They'll make more profit selling these than the actual phone. 
It's a good way to make a large phone less likely to fit in someones pocket.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 14, 2016)

editor said:


> "Major catch". That's MAJOR. A big thing.


Read past the headline. Read all the other reviews.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Read past the headline. Read all the other reviews.


I read the entire article. The author even suggests that some users may want to message Apple over this issue. Perhaps you missed that bit, but I don't think it's something that site suggests very often.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 14, 2016)

Must admit I was a bit surprised at the negative vibes about it all from The Guardian, they're usually pretty gushing.

Then, right at the bottom "_The Guardian has not been provided with a review handset by Apple"

_


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 14, 2016)

My Samsung TV doesn't have a power button.

Remember the outrage when the first TV without a power button was released?


----------



## belboid (Sep 14, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> My Samsung TV doesn't have a power button.
> 
> Remember the outrage when the first TV without a power button was released?


I still think that's a shit idea too.  Sometimes I cant find the remote, or the battery's are fucked.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Must admit I was a bit surprised at the negative vibes about it all from The Guardian, they're usually pretty gushing.
> 
> Then, right at the bottom "_The Guardian has not been provided with a review handset by Apple"
> 
> _


So what you're saying is that all the frothing reviews in the past were due to Apple dishing out freebies galore, but now that they're no longer on the backslapping gravy train, their reviews can now be more honest?

That's good news all round I think. Some of their biased 'reporting' in the past was positively embarrassing.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2016)

belboid said:


> I still think that's a shit idea too.  Sometimes I cant find the remote, or the battery's are fucked.


Me too. I like having a power button.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 14, 2016)

editor said:


> So what you're saying is that all the frothing reviews in the past were due to Apple dishing out freebies galore, but now that they're no longer on the backslapping gravy train, their reviews can now be more honest?
> 
> That's good news all round I think. Some of their biased 'reporting' in the past was positively embarrassing.


That's one take on it. 

Sour grapes could quite easily be another


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That's one take on it.
> 
> Sour grapes could quite easily be another


It's really not unusual for tech mags to have to buy their own handsets for review, although there are reviewers that some suspect are kept in Apple's pocket in exchange for less critical, gushing reviews. Apple gives them the ad-revenue early exclusives, and the reviewer plays nice.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 14, 2016)

editor said:


> I like having a power button.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

Here's the kind of disappointing, non-critical promo fluff that gets written about Apple products. In this case the 'reviewer' hasn't actually got his hands on the phone. The comments section - as is often the case - proves to be far more enlightening.

Most popular comment:


> Why is there a need for an news article like this to "sell" people on the new iPhone 7? There hasn't been a similar article to try to and "sell" people on the merits of any other smartphone. Why does the iPhone 7 need and get this kind of editorial promotion/marketing? Just genuinely curious.



So, you don't care about the iPhone 7? Here are 10 reasons why you should


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 15, 2016)

Ah yes, no one writes that sort of article about non-Apple products:

Apple iPhone 7 Plus: 10 reasons to pick the Samsung Galaxy Note 7 instead | ZDNet

5 Reasons To Buy The Samsung Galaxy Note 7

11 Reasons Why You'll Love the Galaxy Note 7

Samsung Galaxy Note 7: 5 reasons it’s already better than the iPhone 7


----------



## pesh (Sep 15, 2016)

Apple remove the minijack and everyone literally looses their shit.
Samsung release an exploding phablet which sooner or later is going to kill someone, has been banned from the NYC subway and requested by the FAA not to be brought onto planes, gets away with it...

i think this is a great year not to upgrade.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2016)

pesh said:


> Apple remove the minijack and everyone literally looses their shit.
> Samsung release an exploding phablet which sooner or later is going to kill someone, has been banned from the NYC subway and requested by the FAA not to be brought onto planes, gets away with it.


Quite.

Can you imagine what it would be like the other way round?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> Ah yes, no one writes that sort of article about non-Apple products:
> 
> Apple iPhone 7 Plus: 10 reasons to pick the Samsung Galaxy Note 7 instead | ZDNet
> 
> ...


Awww, don't burst his bubble.

Editor on Apple is some of the best stuff on these boards. He's become a minor celebrity here and was getting passed around our office the other day. We have bets on him. I lost the one about the headphone jack because he let me down and waited a full day before slagging it off. That cost me a fiver. 

I got it back on Saturday though, by getting him to say this: 



			
				editor said:
			
		

> The Macbook Air. Lovely machines ...


That was a bet too.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 15, 2016)

pesh said:


> Apple remove the minijack and everyone literally looses their shit.
> Samsung release an exploding phablet which sooner or later is going to kill someone, has been banned from the NYC subway and requested by the FAA not to be brought onto planes, gets away with it...
> 
> i think this is a great year not to upgrade.


Yeah, but "explodes" is actually a design plus on a phablet.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Awww, don't burst his bubble.
> 
> Editor on Apple is some of the best stuff on these boards. He's become a minor celebrity here and was getting passed around our office the other day. We have bets on him. I lost the one about the headphone jack because he let me down and waited a full day before slagging it off. That cost me a fiver.
> 
> ...


What a sad place you inhabit.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, but "explodes" is actually a design plus on a phablet.


When you've spent a lot of money on some high end tech gear, you want to get noticed, and what better way than having a phone with built in pyrotechnics? KABOOM! Check out my Note!


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> Ah yes, no one writes that sort of article about non-Apple products:


That's a nice set of links, but the bit you appear to have missed completely was that the article appeared on a pro/semi-pro photography website_,_ with the author ruminating about the awesome imaging qualities of a phone he has yet to touch.

That was what the reader was commenting on, not whether such articles exist elsewhere.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The major downside is that so far Apple won't be licensing the W1 chip to outside manufactures. This seems incredibly short sighted.



It is a bit of a pain, that. So we won't be seeing any wireless Senheisers made for iPhone 7 anytime soon.

Obviously, they have licensed it to Beats By Dre who they own, who in my opinion already have a superior set of ear pods with the Beats X with a longer lasting battery (although I haven't heard the sound quality or tested the comfort yet)

WirelessRemastered


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 15, 2016)

editor said:


> That's a nice set of links, but the bit you appear to have missed completely was that the article appeared on a pro/semi-pro photography website_,_ with the author ruminating about the awesome imaging qualities of a phone he has yet to touch.
> 
> That was what the reader was commenting on, not whether such articles exist elsewhere.



Website for reviewing products says a product has some benefits. Oh the outrage of it.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2016)

editor said:


> What a sad place you inhabit.


You must be kidding. Manipulating you is one of the most satisfying things I do on the internet. It doesn't always work, tbf, but when it does it's like ... BOOM! 

You're currently subject to another (in play) bet too.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> Website for reviewing products says a product has some benefits. Oh the outrage of it.


OK, you're determined to miss the point or try to understand why that article received so many comments from its readers. Oh well....


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2016)

Looks like Apple are considering puling the headphone jack from MacBooks too

Apple Surveying MacBook Pro Users About Headphone Jack and Other Ports


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 15, 2016)

editor said:


> OK, you're determined to miss the point or try to understand why that article received so many comments from its readers. Oh well....



It appears to have so many comments because the iPhone is far more popular than any of the models of camera which they normally talk about.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> You must be kidding. Manipulating you is one of the most satisfying things I do on the internet. It doesn't always work, tbf, but when it does it's like ... BOOM!
> 
> You're currently subject to another (in play) bet too.


Back on mutual ignore you go, you weirdly obsessive little man.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> It appears to have so many comments because the iPhone is far more popular than any of the models of camera which they normally talk about.


Nothing to do with the claims being made about the phone's amazing camera which the author has never actually used, then? (have you even read the comments?)? OK. As you will.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> You're currently subject to another (in play) bet too.





editor said:


> Back on mutual ignore you go ...


BOOM!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2016)

Although the bunfights over this frankly, first world issue, are amusing to watch sometimes, it is a shame that it has to resort to mutual ignores. Over a phone.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Looks like Apple are considering puling the headphone jack from MacBooks too
> 
> Apple Surveying MacBook Pro Users About Headphone Jack and Other Ports


Honestly couldn't be fussed at all about losing it form my laptop. Losing the normal USB ports in favour of the new C types will mean buying another hub which would be a pain.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Although the bunfights over this frankly, first world issue, are amusing to watch sometimes, it is a shame that it has to resort to mutual ignores. Over a phone.



I'm still reading his stuff (and he's reading mine too  ) so we're still going to be able to place bets. I may need a posting proxy though. PM's on the way.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 15, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Honestly couldn't be fussed at all about losing it form my laptop. Losing the normal USB ports in favour of the new C types will mean buying another hub which would be a pain.


Why? Just buy a new cable. Unless you mean everything becomes C, in which case yeah eventually.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Although the bunfights over this frankly, first world issue, are amusing to watch sometimes, it is a shame that it has to resort to mutual ignores. Over a phone.


When individuals start taking these tech discussions into some weird, 'manipulated' off-line betting games, then it really has lost its way.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Honestly couldn't be fussed at all about losing it form my laptop. Losing the normal USB ports in favour of the new C types will mean buying another hub which would be a pain.


I'm really not having a go here but it's quite common for me to be working at my laptop at a cafe and something comes in that I want to watch, so I just plug in my phone earphones. Be a pain if that suddenly means needing an adaptor.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> BOOM!


I got a warning for this?


----------



## Reiabuzz (Sep 15, 2016)

Quick, dumb question. iPhone 6 or SE? Is the only difference basically the screen size? For 100 quid more?


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> Quick, dumb question. iPhone 6 or SE? Is the only difference basically the screen size? For 100 quid more?


Quick answer. Looks a far better deal. 


> The Apple iPhone SE has some pretty interesting specs for its £359 starting price.
> 
> It may look like the iPhone 5S but it has the processing and graphics power of the flagship iPhone 6S, as well as its rear camera, despite being almost £200 cheaper.
> 
> The iPhone SE is essentially a smaller version of the the iPhone 6S, minus 3D Touch and a couple of other features such as a higher resolution front-facing camera. For those after a smaller iPhone, you aren't comprising on much and you're saving on the pennies. Bigger is normally always better, but sometimes great things come in small packages too, which is exactly the case for the iPhone SE.



Apple iPhone SE vs iPhone 6S vs iPhone 6: What's the difference? - Pocket-lint


----------



## Reiabuzz (Sep 15, 2016)

Thanks, yes I saw that but I thought I might ask the uber apple geeks on here for a more hands on view. Given that it will be barely used as an actual phone I'm thinking the bigger screen although the price differential is pretty fucking ridiculous.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm really not having a go here but it's quite common for me to be working at my laptop at a cafe and something comes in that I want to watch, so I just plug in my phone earphones. Be a pain if that suddenly means needing an adaptor.


Yeah, can see it would be a change for others, but I can't remember the last time I used them on my mac. Any audio playback at home is Airplay streaming, and all my work stuff is via USB interfaces (hence the slight pain when it all goes to USB-C)...


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 15, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> Thanks, yes I saw that but I thought I might ask the uber apple geeks on here for a more hands on view. Given that it will be barely used as an actual phone I'm thinking the bigger screen although the price differential is pretty fucking ridiculous.



It's all about the size. I have the SE because I don't need the bigger screen and wanted something lighter and smaller.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> Thanks, yes I saw that but I thought I might ask the uber apple geeks on here for a more hands on view. Given that it will be barely used as an actual phone I'm thinking the bigger screen although the price differential is pretty fucking ridiculous.


The main bit you'll miss is 3D touch. I thought at first it would be a gimmick, but now find myself using it all the time and it's a genuinely useful thing. However, other people I know have said they barely use it, so your mileage may vary.

As for the screen size - in many ways I'd still prefer the smaller screen because occasionally it's awkward to hold and use a bigger one single handed. That said, it is easier to read webpages etc sometimes. 

For me the ideal phone would be all the tech of the latest model in the older, smaller size. Never going to happen though.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 15, 2016)

If I wanted a bigger screen the price differential from the SE to the regular 6s would mean I wouldn't get an iPhone.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> Quick, dumb question. iPhone 6 or SE? Is the only difference basically the screen size? For 100 quid more?



The iPhone SE has a better processor (A9) than the iPhone 6 which has an (A8). It's the same as the iPhone 6S. Also it has 2GB of RAM as opposed to 1GB. So if you want futureproofing, the SE is a better choice.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Sep 15, 2016)

I agree bioboy, but this is for my other half who has just had a disastrous first experience on a huawei android (on my recommendation too ) so that's that. It's apple or nothing,


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 15, 2016)

Massive level of Guardianness here: Apple's Messages app suggests My Little Pony porn gif. I love the detailed description of The GIF They Will Not Publish 



> The new feature is part of Apple’s big revamp of the Messaging app, to bring it in line with competitors such as Facebook Messenger. It allows users to search for gifs, share music and add features from third-party apps.
> 
> Searching for the word “butt” returns the gif – which the Guardian is choosing not to publish – depicting the female My Little Pony horse character called Fluttershy as the number one result. The anthropomorphised moving image shows Fluttershy bent over and pulling down her underwear. Her head is turned back towards the viewer displaying what looks like an expression of shame or embarrassment and which transforms into a coquettish smile once the underwear is down.



Cue millions of iPhone users trying to work out how to search for GIFs in iMessage.

Spoiler: in the cartoons, Fluttershy _isn't even wearing pants at all_


----------



## mauvais (Sep 15, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> huawei android (on my recommendation too ) so that's that. It's apple or nothing


Well, you've only yourself to blame for that. Why?


----------



## Reiabuzz (Sep 15, 2016)

Cool... yes, I think it's the best bet.

Another stupid question. Why is it cheaper to buy from a third party such as John Lewis rather than apple directly? Exactly the same product, 20 quid cheaper.

Edit, that was addressed to skyscraper


----------



## Reiabuzz (Sep 15, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Well, you've only yourself to blame for that. Why?



It was cheap and came recommended from all the geek sites for budget, decent smartphones. It lasted six months.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 15, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> (hence the slight pain when it all goes to USB-C)...


Again - you know that USB-C is just an interoperable standard for ports, right?

So all you need is... drumroll... an adapter 

No! _Too clumsy!_


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2016)

OH NO! NOT AN ADAPTER!!!


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Well, you've only yourself to blame for that. Why?


This bloke seemed happy enough with the handset. Huawei P9 long-term review | TrustedReviews

Never used one myself.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Again - you know that USB-C is just an interoperable standard for ports, right?
> 
> So all you need is... drumroll... an adapter
> 
> No! _Too clumsy!_


For my work it would be a slight pain (emphasis on slight), as rather than a single pair of headphones I could leave an adapter on all the time, I'm in and out of different venues, plugging into various different desks, interfaces, data drives etc. I'd need several adapters at once. I guess I'd just end up shelling out for a multi port hub type thingy.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 15, 2016)

chilango said:


> I've had so many head phones over the years fail at the socket that a forceful nudge away from that is probably for the best.



Headphones have sockets?


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> For my work it would be a slight pain (emphasis on slight), as rather than a single pair of headphones I could leave an adapter on all the time, I'm in and out of different venues, plugging into various different desks, interfaces, data drives etc. I'd need several adapters at once. I guess I'd just end up shelling out for a multi port him type thingy.


That's the ticket! Apple just love folks who buy their overpriced extras!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 15, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> What are you on about?
> 
> A water wine-resistant phone would have saved me 2 phones. It is the singularly most useful feature of recently released smartphones, imo.



CFY.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2016)

editor said:


> That's the ticket! Apple just love folks who buy their overpriced extras!


*shrugs*

If that's the price I have to pay to access all the software I need for work on a platform that has never once crashed on me in several years then so be it. I'm lucky enough that I've reached a point in my career where the price of a particular tool is not my primary concern anymore.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2016)

editor said:


> That's the ticket! Apple just love folks who buy their overpriced extras!


Did someone from Apple shoot your dog and burn your house down?


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> *shrugs*
> 
> If that's the price I have to pay to access all the software I need for work on a platform that has never once crashed on me in several years then so be it. I'm lucky enough that I've reached a point in my career where the price of a particular tool is not my primary concern anymore.


For the record, I have real trouble remembering when my laptop last crashed and I use it a lot. Most platforms are pretty damn stable these days.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 15, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow is a sound engineer though, which pretty much means he has to use ipads and macs for a lot of bits of his job.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

souljacker said:


> beesonthewhatnow is a sound engineer though, which pretty much means he has to use ipads and macs for a lot of bits of his job.


Loads of people have jobs that require rock-solid software and OSs that don't screw up. Even humble journos and photographers.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 15, 2016)

Sound engineers use macs and ipads though (most, not all do anyway)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2016)

editor said:


> For the record, I have real trouble remembering when my laptop last crashed and I use it a lot. Most platforms are pretty damn stable these days.


They are, but I had one too many issues back when I was using PC's. Being stood in the middle of an arena with 8000 people looking at you while you're rebooting a laptop is not a nice experience  Once bitten...

Also, well over half of the software I now use is mac only and won't ever likely make it to Windows so even if I wanted to jump back, I couldn't.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

souljacker said:


> Sound engineers use macs and ipads though (most, not all do anyway)


They do indeed, although I was surprised to see the engineer in a gig near me using a Samsung tablet in a fairly decent system. To be honest, I didn't think Android was up to the job, but he said it worked perfectly for him.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2016)

editor said:


> They do indeed, although I was surprised to see the engineer in a gig near me using a Samsung tablet in a fairly decent system. To be honest, I didn't think Android was up to the job, but he said it worked perfectly for him.


For playback only stuff Android devices are fine. It's when you have to route audio in and then back out again it all goes wrong, due to the utterly shite latency Android has. Fuck knows why Google don't fix this, all the hardware out there is more than capable of dealing with it properly, they just cripple the software. It would open up a whole world of cheaper alternatives for music making/processing.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Being stood in the middle of an arena with 8000 people looking at you while you're rebooting a laptop is not a nice experience  Once bitten...



Please share that story in full


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

If you're a superstar DJ you just smash up your gear when your laptop fails during a big gig.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Please share that story in full


Large corporate awards type thing. I have all the show stings/walkup tracks/FX loaded into a cart player on my laptop. Show caller in my earpiece "standby show open cue 1, sound, LX, video.... GO"

I press the button....fuck all. Laptop had completely frozen. I die inside and have the longest minute of my life as it reboots and I reload the show. All the time lots of very angry sounding people shouting in my ear as to what was going on and many people starting at me from all around.

Not fun. Not fun at all.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 15, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Large corporate awards type thing. I have all the show stings/walkup tracks/FX loaded into a cart player on my laptop. Show caller in my earpiece "standby show open cue 1, sound, LX, video.... GO"
> 
> I press the button....fuck all. Laptop had completely frozen. I die inside and have the longest minute of my life as it reboots and I reload the show. All the time lots of very angry sounding people shouting in my ear as to what was going on and many people starting at me from all around.
> 
> Not fun. Not fun at all.



That doesn't sound fun. Been in a similar position (though a lot smaller audience). I even ran tests directly before we went live to make sure no issues. Then, as we went live, right on Cue, it froze


----------



## spitfire (Sep 15, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Large corporate awards type thing. I have all the show stings/walkup tracks/FX loaded into a cart player on my laptop. Show caller in my earpiece "standby show open cue 1, sound, LX, video.... GO"
> 
> I press the button....fuck all. Laptop had completely frozen. I die inside and have the longest minute of my life as it reboots and I reload the show. All the time lots of very angry sounding people shouting in my ear as to what was going on and many people starting at me from all around.
> 
> Not fun. Not fun at all.




I have dreams like that sometimes....


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

All laptops can and will fuck up, regardless of the OS. If you're DJing, this is good advice

5 tips to follow if your DJ laptop crashes during a gig


----------



## paolo (Sep 15, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> It's all about the size. I have the SE because I don't need the bigger screen and wanted something lighter and smaller.



Similar here.

I use my phone one handed lots. The SE fits my hand size for that. The bigger ones are awkward. I specifically held out for the SE, for that reason. And I think aesthetically it's the best design they've done to date (the 4 thru 5S), although that was secondary.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 15, 2016)

editor said:


> All laptops can and will fuck up, regardless of the OS. If you're DJing, this is good advice
> 
> 5 tips to follow if your DJ laptop crashes during a gig


Bloody hell. 'Switch back to vinyl or CDs' isn't exactly a helpful tip of you are a laptop DJ!  

Bring your laptop, but also bring a shitload of records and CDs?!  

If bringing a headphones adapter is a pain in the ass then that is considerably more so [emoji1]


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Bloody hell. 'Switch back to vinyl or CDs' isn't exactly a helpful tip of you are a laptop DJ!


Bearing in mind that all tech fucks up sooner or later, it doesn't hurt to have your phone with some songs loaded up as an absolute last-gasp back up. It's happened to me when CD decks have fucked up and managed to bridge the gap while I fixed the CDs.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 15, 2016)

editor said:


> Bearing in mind that all tech fucks up sooner or later, it doesn't hurt to have your phone with some songs loaded up as an absolute last-gasp back up. It's happened to me when CD decks have fucked up and managed to bridge the gap while I fixed the CDs.


Yeah totally get that. I can play quite a decent set w Djay for iPhone/iPad. But going the other way isn't going to work so easily.  Couple of decent suggestions in there for in the moment problems but that particular one is basically piss poor journalism. 

Might as well say 'email goes down in the office?'  Make sure you have a fax machine on standby.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Yeah totally get that. I can play quite a decent set w Djay for iPhone/iPad. But going the other way isn't going to work so easily.  Couple of decent suggestions in there for in the moment problems but that particular one is basically piss poor journalism.
> 
> Might as well say 'email goes down in the office?'  Make sure you have a fax machine on standby.


Fancy writing a better article? I'll post in on urban75!


----------



## discobastard (Sep 15, 2016)

editor said:


> Fancy writing a better article? I'll post in on urban75!


Well, no, because I've never been in that situation. Like I said, there are some good suggestions there like don't panic, talk to the audience. But ensure you have a full backup and be skilled at using a totally different (and much harder to transport) format is not a helpful or relevant suggestion. 

The wording of the article title suggests those are things you should do in the moment. Which is not the case with regard to changing your whole way of doing things. 

And just because I call it out doesn't mean I should be able to write a better article. So that's not really a valid argument - I am merely commenting that what they've said is misguided and not strictly helpful. We *all*!legitimately do that here and because I can't write a better article doesn't mean my criticism is invalid!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 15, 2016)

You only need a single backup CD, with a few premixed tracks on it Bung that on, fix the problem, carry on.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2016)

Curious, no? Apple removed the iPhone 7 headphone jack for a speaker grille … but no speaker


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 16, 2016)

editor said:


> Curious, no? Apple removed the iPhone 7 headphone jack for a speaker grille … but no speaker


If The Guardian had read down to step 7:


> In place of the headphone jack, we find a component that seems to channel sound from outside the phone into the microphone... or from the Taptic Engine out. No fancy electronics here, just some well-designed acoustics and molded plastic.


iPhone 7 Plus Teardown - iFixit

So the mystery holes are to get sound in to the mic - the iPhone 6s only had a single hole.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 16, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> You only need a single backup CD, with a few premixed tracks on it Bung that on, fix the problem, carry on.



Or just bung the mix CD on to start with and relax while twiddling some knobs to look cool.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> Or just bung the mix CD on to start with and relax while twiddling some knobs to look cool.


And pointing. It always impresses when a DJ randomly points at people at the crowd.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 16, 2016)

editor said:


> Curious, no? Apple removed the iPhone 7 headphone jack for a speaker grille … but no speaker



It's probably an aesthetic thing. Or maybe it's setting up a design feature for a future speaker down there.

Personally, I think they need to revive the Beats Audio enhanced sound that was a major plus point of the HTC ONE M7 over 3 years ago but has now been shelved for current HTC phones. If anyone was going to do it again, I'd have thought their parent company Apple would have.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2016)

Barrel. Scraped. The guy who dropped an iPhone on live TV can't afford the new iPhone


----------



## elbows (Sep 16, 2016)

Someone at work got their iPhone 7 today. The haptic stuff on the home button is quite freaky - to me it felt like the whole device was clicking down, which is obviously not whats actually happened but it appears to fool the mind in that direction.

I've no reason to be excited about this phone or upgrade from the 6 except my brother seems desperate to buy my current phone off me so I guess I will oblige.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 16, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The overwhelming consensus from reviews is that for the vast majority of users it simply won't be a big deal. There will be a minority of users for whom it will be a pain, and and even smaller set for which it will be a deal breaker.
> 
> As usual, Ars Technica has the best take on it.
> 
> iPhone 7 and 7 Plus review: Great annual upgrades with one major catch



Pretty much yet those who never buy Apple products would have you believe it's the end of the world. In a year basically no one will be talking about it. Remember how much the Editor hated the lack of hardware keyboard when the original iPhone came out? Just like that he and others like him will come round in the end...


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 16, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Must admit I was a bit surprised at the negative vibes about it all from The Guardian, they're usually pretty gushing.
> 
> Then, right at the bottom "_The Guardian has not been provided with a review handset by Apple"
> 
> _



That's because their Apple arse kisser in chief Charles Arthur was demoted a couple years back from being tech editor so they've defaulted to their more objective sensibilities...


.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 17, 2016)

Do I win he saddo prize of frst person to post in this thread from an iphone7? 

Testing the 7 plus from Dixons Heathrow departures area. I like.

The haptic feedback home button was not quite how I expected. It doesn't feel so much like a 'buzz' on the button like I thought, but it actually feels like you're clicking the whole lower end of the phone down... A bit like an apple mouse clicker, if that makes sense?

I think the matte black 7 plus is going to be the one.

No stock though


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Sep 17, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's because their Apple arse kisser in chief Charles Arthur was demoted a couple years back from being tech editor so they've defaulted to their more objective sensibilities...



Tbh, I think he was happy to go freelance after his wife started making big bucks.


----------



## elbows (Sep 18, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> The haptic feedback home button was not quite how I expected. It doesn't feel so much like a 'buzz' on the button like I thought, but it actually feels like you're clicking the whole lower end of the phone down... A bit like an apple mouse clicker, if that makes sense?



Yeah thats exactly the thing I was trying to describe in my post. Freaky isn't it?


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

OMG Why are some iPhone 7s making hissing noises?

#endoftheworld #worsethanamagmanote7


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 19, 2016)

Another idea Apple borrowed from the Android world then. 
Samsung had hissing phones years ago, and their TVs hissed even before that!
#appledonothingoriginal #hissingate


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

Lazy Llama said:


> Another idea Apple borrowed from the Android world then.
> Samsung had hissing phones years ago, and their TVs hissed even before that!
> #appledonothingoriginal #hissingate


I need to upgrade. My phone neither bursts into flames or hisses. I am so uncool.


----------



## emanymton (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> I need to upgrade. My phone neither bursts into flames or hisses. I am so uncool.


My S7 neither hisses or busts into flames. 

Maybe I should return it for being faulty?


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 19, 2016)

For those missing out: Hiss Audio Sounds


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> For those missing out: Hiss Audio Sounds


I'll run that in the background on my phone and then set alight to it sporadically for the full modern phone effect.


----------



## BoxRoom (Sep 19, 2016)

My partner is getting an iPhone today. It's like I don't know who she is any more.
But I suspect I'll be checking Apple threads more often so I can remain useful to her.
She's going for the SE I believe, will see how she feels at the time. Is it okay?

I wish I could afford a new phone


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 19, 2016)

BoxRoom said:


> She's going for the SE I believe, will see how she feels at the time. Is it okay?



It's the best small phone that money can buy.


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> It's the best small phone that money can buy.


Weeellll, legions of Sony Xperia Compact users may disagree


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 19, 2016)

editor said:


> Weeellll, legions of Sony Xperia Compact users may disagree


They'd be wrong, obviously


----------



## editor (Sep 19, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They'd be wrong, obviously


_Au contraire _

iPhone SE vs Xperia Z5 Compact Review: Sony Crushes The iPhone

You can pick up a Sony for around £220 too. It's a bloody bargain.


----------



## gosub (Sep 22, 2016)

In May 2014, technology giant Apple Inc. made a bid for the Beats by Dre brand for a reported $3 billion. This makes the takeover Apple's most expensive purchase by far.

Think the let's get rid of head phone jacks, is cynical, but will probably pull the market.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 23, 2016)

The Jet Black 7 Plus seems to have a three month waiting list, must be cos no one wants it without the headphone jack...


----------



## paolo (Sep 23, 2016)

"The battery life just isn’t good enough to last one day"
- Samuel Gibbs, The Graun.

Is this true, or is he talking out of his arse? My SE goes all the way through - I'd be surprised if they'd suddenly made it really bad.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 23, 2016)

paolo said:


> "The battery life just isn’t good enough to last one day"
> - Samuel Gibbs, The Graun.
> 
> Is this true, or is he talking out of his arse? My SE goes all the way through - I'd be surprised if they'd suddenly made it really bad.



I always find claims like this meaningless. Under what circumstances? If I'm bored and post on urban for a few hours or watch a film that will make a decent size dent in any smartphone battery life. If I leave it in my pocket just waiting for phone calls I expect to last a while. Everyone uses their devices differently.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 23, 2016)

paolo said:


> "The battery life just isn’t good enough to last one day"
> - Samuel Gibbs, The Graun.
> 
> Is this true, or is he talking out of his arse? My SE goes all the way through - I'd be surprised if they'd suddenly made it really bad.


It's always a bit pointless when reviewers talk about a battery lasting a day or not. Obviously it depends how much you use it.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 23, 2016)

teuchter said:


> It's always a bit pointless when reviewers talk about a battery lasting a day or not. Obviously it depends how much you use it.


Portable battery packs have become a way of life for many phone users. 

My 6S never makes it to the end of the day without the need to be recharged at least once. More if I'm playing Pokemon that day.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I always find claims like this meaningless. Under what circumstances? If I'm bored and post on urban for a few hours or watch a film that will make a decent size dent in any smartphone battery life. If I leave it in my pocket just waiting for phone calls I expect to last a while. Everyone uses their devices differently.


It's never scientific, but it's useful as a guide, and there are sites that offer more robust testing. My Sony has noticeably superior battery life to any other smartphone I've used and can sometimes stretch to two days of reasonable use. My S4 would scuttle off and cry after about 7 hours of similar usage.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 23, 2016)

Gromit said:


> My 6S never makes it to the end of the day without the need to be recharged at least once. More if I'm playing Pokemon that day.


What are you doing on it?! Im normally on 40%-60% at the end of the day.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 23, 2016)

sim667 said:


> What are you doing on it?! Im normally on 40%-60% at the end of the day.


*Shudders*


----------



## Gromit (Sep 23, 2016)

sim667 said:


> What are you doing on it?! Im normally on 40%-60% at the end of the day.


Urban
Clash of clans
Clan Royale
News sites
Pokemon


----------



## sim667 (Sep 23, 2016)

Gromit said:


> Urban
> Clash of clans
> Clan Royale
> News sites
> Pokemon


Ah games.

Games on mobile devices just don't pique my interest...... except wordfeud and quizup


----------



## discobastard (Sep 23, 2016)

editor said:


> _Au contraire _
> 
> iPhone SE vs Xperia Z5 Compact Review: Sony Crushes The iPhone
> 
> You can pick up a Sony for around £220 too. It's a bloody bargain.


For balance:

https://recombu.com/mobile/article/...xperia-z5-compact-which-is-best-better-for-me


----------



## sim667 (Sep 23, 2016)

I notice the vast pixel difference between the two, I'd be interested to know how both companies measure there.

It can be very misleading as some companies measure via the X and Y axis, where as some measure the diagonals, the diagonal measurement obviously results in higher reported resolution.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Sep 23, 2016)

Anyone thinking of getting stuck in with with the Apple Upgrade Program? Probably won't myself, thought it would be a quick and painless way to easily get an iphone 8 next year , jus' thinking ahead here


----------



## sim667 (Sep 23, 2016)

pinkychukkles said:


> Anyone thinking of getting stuck in with with the Apple Upgrade Program? Probably won't myself, thought it would be a quick and painless way to easily get an iphone 8 next year , jus' thinking ahead here



I thought about, but I've also decided I can't be fucked with the whole smartphone game anymore..... they're basically overpriced devices which result in playing keeping up with the Jones's and having childish argument, and horrendously skewed comparisons.

Ill keep my iPhone 6 until it dies. Then by an old school phone where the battery life lasts 2 weeks.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 23, 2016)

editor said:


> _Au contraire _
> 
> iPhone SE vs Xperia Z5 Compact Review: Sony Crushes The iPhone
> 
> You can pick up a Sony for around £220 too. It's a bloody bargain.



I explained previously to you that the title of that article is highly misleading 

Here is a quote from the article:

"The Z3 Compact / iPhone 6 match-up was an easy performance win for Sony, but that’s reversed now. Apple’s handset has caught up with the compact line from Sony is with silicon. The SE moves up to 2GB of RAM from the iPhone 5S base, and the A9 chip is top of the line in terms of performance and battery efficiency. Multitasking is far more efficient, more information can be held in memory, and recalling information and apps from storage to start them running is faster and slicker. *The iPhone SE just feels better in day-to-day use.*

The SnapDragon 810 inside the Xperia Z5 Compact does the job, but switching between apps can sometimes see the smartphone stutter – it’s a small but noticeable pause as work is done behind the screen to get everything in place. Qualcomm has worked hard to iron out the design difficulties of the SnapDragon 810, but most flagships have now moved on to the 820. * the Z5 compact is six months out of step with the major chip advancements, and it shows.*

I’m talking about tiny differences at the edge of the envelope here, but the Z5 Compact has a much more ragged edge of performance. *Over the life of these devices the iPhone SE is the device that is going to retain its capability as it is updated.*"


Yes I am sure you can pick up one for £220, but then you can pick up an iPhone 5 for £130. I guess there is a market for outdated phones.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Sep 23, 2016)

sim667 said:


> I thought about, but I've also decided I can't be fucked with the whole smartphone game anymore..... they're basically overpriced devices which result in playing keeping up with the Jones's and having childish argument, and horrendously skewed comparisons.
> 
> Ill keep my iPhone 6 until it dies. Then by an old school phone where the battery life lasts 2 weeks.


Ha - yeah, been feeling much the same. I got an iphone 6+ a couple of months after it came out and it does what I need it to do. Sure, who wouldn't want a shiny new gadget but meh, I don't even have the time to use the phone I have to it's fullest capabilities, no need for a replacement.

I decided that when I took off the protective case and then sold the box it came it, recently I took off the screen protector as well with a view to putting a new one on and I couldn't be bothered! I usually do all this to preserve as much value as possible when selling it to offset the cost of getting the next new iteration.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 23, 2016)

pinkychukkles said:


> Ha - yeah, been feeling much the same. I got an iphone 6+ a couple of months after it came out and it does what I need it to do. Sure, who wouldn't want a shiny new gadget but meh, I don't even have the time to use the phone I have to it's fullest capabilities, no need for a replacement.
> 
> I decided that when I took off the protective case and then sold the box it came it, recently I took off the screen protector as well with a view to putting a new one on and I couldn't be bothered! I usually do all this to preserve as much value as possible when selling it to offset the cost of getting the next new iteration.



Its also the amount ill save contract wise...... £29 a month cheaper for the same tariff, but without getting a new phone every two years (not to mention paying £80 ish for the new phone)......

When it dies, I'll get a shit phone, and an nice iPod, and then just rely on wifi I think. Maps is handy, but I can read an actual map and would rather not lose that skill by simply never doing it.

I sit at a laptop all day every day for work too, so its not like I'll lose on on internet time either..... If I change to a job where thats not the case, then I'd reconsider, but the reality is the contract I'm working on is there for at least another year, and in that time I could save £360...... nearly the amount I want to save for a new bit of diving kit by this time in 2017.


----------



## editor (Sep 23, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> I explained previously to you that the title of that article is highly misleading


Ah, the selective quoting malarkey! I'll leave it thanks, but just put this here:



> So, still keeping off the Android vs. iOS debate, it is true that the iPhone SE has the style that most down-to-earth users will enjoy; however, *the Xperia Z5 Compact has some nifty additions that make it a much better option*.
> 
> Xperia Z5 Compact vs. iPhone SE – Is Sony Better than Apple?





> The Sony Z5 Compact is barely larger than an iPhone SE, and literally _tenths_ of an ounce heavier, but somehow equips a 4.7-inch display (the same size as the iPhone 6S) and a battery that’s a third larger. The Samsung Galaxy Alpha is almost as efficient, though it came out two years ago. Placing them next to the SE makes the age of its design obvious.
> 
> Both Android alternatives also come standard with 32GB of storage, which is the least any modern smartphone should have. The Android phones aren’t as quick, perhaps, but they’re more_modern. _And much cheaper than the $500 iPhone SE 64GB you really _have_ to buy, since the 16GB model is inadequate.
> 
> ...


What do I think? They're both very capable phones, but you're on thin ice if you're claiming that one is much better than the other.


----------



## editor (Sep 26, 2016)

> *Battery anxiety*
> Battery life, however, is poor. Using it as my primary device with three hours of app usage and browsing, hundreds of emails and push notifications, a couple of photos, five hours of music over Bluetooth headphones and the odd game of Jetpack Joyride during my one hour and 20 minute train commute to and from work, it lasted an average of just over 14 hours between charges, meaning it didn’t survive past 9.30pm.
> 
> Rather than having better battery life in my testing, the iPhone 7 has worse battery life than the iPhone 6S when new. No single app caused significant battery drain, I do not have the Facebook app installed and Low Power Mode made no appreciable difference in my testing when enabled at 20%.
> ...


So the battery life is pretty awful. Still at least you can add on a charger when you're listening to music on your commute. Oh no, wait 

And no fast charging or wireless charging too? T'is a poor show for such an expensive phone.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 28, 2016)

Here's a good site for checking world stock levels of the iPhone 7. 

iStockNow - Live iPhone Stock Map and Alerts

It looks like the 7 Plus is out of stock everywhere in the UK right now. Some handsets in France, Switzerland and Spain though.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 29, 2016)

For the people who can't get over the loss of the mini jack - this case looks pretty neat, and claims to double the battery life.

'Fuze' Case for iPhone 7 Aims to Bring Back the 3.5mm Headphone Jack


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> For the people who can't get over the loss of the mini jack - this case looks pretty neat, and claims to double the battery life.
> 
> 'Fuze' Case for iPhone 7 Aims to Bring Back the 3.5mm Headphone Jack


At the price of a hugely increased phone size. Looks shit too.

And this video is beyond barfworthy. Is the product even real?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 29, 2016)

editor said:


> At the price of a hugely increased phone size. Looks shit too.
> 
> And this video is beyond barfworthy. Is the product even real?




Video is a bit cringe. I wouldn't be in the market for one of these myself, but it's a solution at least to those who can't handle the little adaptor on the end of their non-apple headphones.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Video is a bit cringe. I wouldn't be in the market for one of these myself, but it's a solution at least to those who can't handle the little adaptor on the end of their non-apple headphones.


But it comes with one hell of a bulky pay off.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 29, 2016)

editor said:


> But it comes with one hell of a bulky pay off.



Sure but these battery pack cases usually do. That's nothing new.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sure but these battery pack cases usually do. That's nothing new.


Yes, but this is being sold on the virtue that it gets your headphone jack back.


----------



## bi0boy (Sep 29, 2016)




----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 29, 2016)

editor said:


> Yes, but this is being sold on the virtue that it gets your headphone jack back.



Yeah primarily, but also that it's battery-case too. And they're quite popular anyway - so while the bulk of the case may not be a great payoff for getting a minijack, at least you know you'll double the battery life into the bargain.

Like I said, it's not for me. But seems like a good idea if you're into those battery cases and not a fan of the minijack loss.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Yeah primarily, but also that it's battery-case too. And they're quite popular anyway - so while the bulk of the case may not be a great payoff for getting a minijack, at least you know you'll double the battery life into the bargain.
> 
> Like I said, it's not for me. But seems like a good idea if you're into those battery cases and not a fan of the minijack loss.


Or it might just be easier to get the iPhone 6 or another make of phone and save yourself all the extra expenditure and increased bulk


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 1, 2016)

One for the Apple haters. This guy didn't get a refund


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 2, 2016)

teuchter said:


> It's always a bit pointless when reviewers talk about a battery lasting a day or not. Obviously it depends how much you use it.



Yep, how many notifications, how much location services it uses, what content you consume on it amongst others have a massive impact. Just running a bunch of playing music for hours and waiting to see when the battery drains tests doesn't have much relevance in the real world...


.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 2, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, how many notifications, how much location services it uses, what content you consume on it amongst others have a massive impact. Just running a bunch of playing music for hours and waiting to see when the battery drains tests doesn't have much relevance in the real world...


Any views on iOS 10?  I have a 6S and am holding back as I've heard about battery issues.  As it is my battery is perfectly decent, charge every night and it always lasts with moderate use, always 30-40% left when I go to bed.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 2, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Any views on iOS 10?  I have a 6S and am holding back as I've heard about battery issues.  As it is my battery is perfectly decent, charge every night and it always lasts with moderate use, always 30-40% left when I go to bed.


I've put it on my 6s and its fine.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 2, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yep, how many notifications, how much location services it uses, what content you consume on it amongst others have a massive impact. Just running a bunch of playing music for hours and waiting to see when the battery drains tests doesn't have much relevance in the real world...
> 
> 
> .




Well though out benchmarks that put different phones through similar tests on the other hand are far more useful then useless phrases like it lasts two days.


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Well though out benchmarks that put different phones through similar tests on the other hand are far more useful then useless phrases like it lasts two days.


Indeed. And because all phones go through the same benchmarks, a site can provide a helpful rough outline about how good (or poor) a phone's battery life is. Certainly more accurate and useful than "it lasts for ages" or  "my phone is better than yours."


Benchmarks (Phone Arena)
Phones with the Best Battery Life: Who Lasts the Longest?


----------



## Winot (Oct 2, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've put it on my 6s and its fine.



Fine on my 6 too.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 3, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> One for the Apple haters. This guy didn't get a refund




I love the way he does it with a boule...... all he needed to go with it is a "vive la resistance" t-shirt, and a beret.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 3, 2016)

Winot said:


> Fine on my 6 too.


Me too..


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Well though out benchmarks that put different phones through similar tests on the other hand are far more useful then useless phrases like it lasts two days.



I don't think they are, they aren't real world tests and nobody by the testers experiences phones like that.


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Oct 6, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Any views on iOS 10?  I have a 6S and am holding back as I've heard about battery issues.  As it is my battery is perfectly decent, charge every night and it always lasts with moderate use, always 30-40% left when I go to bed.



It's the same every year nothing of course due the fact that shiny new means everyone uses their phone more thus caning battery.

I've been running ten on my 6s plus since it came out and there's no change in battery.


.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 6, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I don't think they are, they aren't real world tests and nobody by the testers experiences phones like that.
> 
> 
> .



What would you suggest instead?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 6, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I've put it on my 6s and its fine.



Fine on my 5s.  Quite like the new widgets.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 10, 2016)

Shiny thing arrives...


----------



## paolo (Oct 11, 2016)

Which black is that?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 11, 2016)

paolo said:


> Which black is that?



None.  None more black.


----------



## paolo (Oct 11, 2016)

8ball said:


> None.  None more black.



You're almost channelling Jony Ive, in his perpetual and infinite white room


----------



## 8ball (Oct 11, 2016)

paolo said:


> You're almost channelling Jony Ive, in his perpetual and infinite white room



I think I was channeling Nigel Tufnel..


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 11, 2016)

paolo said:


> Which black is that?



Matt black, the shiny black only comes on the one with more memory and a stiff breeze would scratch it.

Anyone know where the headphone socket's gone?


----------



## BoxRoom (Oct 18, 2016)

The Regent Street store is open again. Looks well swish.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 18, 2016)

8ball said:


> None.  None more black.



The iPhone 8 casing will be made from Vantablack, calling it now.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 18, 2016)

mwgdrwg said:


> The iPhone 8 casing will be made from Vantablack, calling it now.




iphone 8 details leaked already!


----------



## 5t3IIa (Oct 19, 2016)

Just got iOS 10.0.2 and can't swipe down to get rid of word suggestions in the typing box  

Is it 'Predictive' in Settings to turn it off? Or should I be able to swipe it down and away? 

Grr


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 19, 2016)

5t3IIa said:


> Just got iOS 10.0.2 and can't swipe down to get rid of word suggestions in the typing box
> 
> Is it 'Predictive' in Settings to turn it off? Or should I be able to swipe it down and away?
> 
> ...


Yes, "Predictive" will turn it off. 
Swiping down doesn't remove suggestions but I hadn't tried it before so don't know whether that's changed.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Oct 19, 2016)

Lazy Llama said:


> Yes, "Predictive" will turn it off.
> Swiping down doesn't remove suggestions but I hadn't tried it before so don't know whether that's changed.


Thank you. A 'hard' swipe down used to get rid of it, I'm sure


----------



## 5t3IIa (Oct 19, 2016)

Gone!


----------



## emanymton (Oct 22, 2016)

Not wanting to be outdone by Samsung, Apple have produced a phone that doesn't just set itself on fire, but your car as well. Apparently. 

iPhone 7 being investigated after surfer claims it set his car on fire


----------



## spitfire (Oct 23, 2016)

Cards on the table.

I'm an Apple user, always have been. Not a "fanboi" as I don't give a fuck what other people choose to use, most platforms have their advantages. I've just always used (and generally loved) Apple.

However. (and I waited until I got an iphone 7 to reach this conclusion).

Losing the 3.5mm audio jack is a fucking stupid idea.

3 times now I've been caught out without an adapter. I use my phone at work to generate audio for testing, first time I wanted it, bastard had disappeared. On the train last week, hadn't had a chance to replace it. So no headphones. Tonight, in the shed. Boringly have to go and hunt down the adaptor from my bag instead of just plugging the fucker in.

I am generally well equipped with adaptors, USB leads, splitters and anything else I can think of but not enough apparently. Clearly I will attempt to make sure this doesn't happen again. 

It may work out, they may have read the tea leaves for the future, but I reckon this is a stupid fucking idea and Apple can get to fuck with this one.


----------



## Cid (Oct 23, 2016)

spitfire said:


> Cards on the table.
> 
> I'm an Apple user, always have been. Not a "fanboi" as I don't give a fuck what other people choose to use, most platforms have their advantages. I've just always used (and generally loved) Apple.
> 
> ...



Yeah, agreed - I lost mine down the pub on Friday. No idea how, didn't lose earphones or phone and wasn't pissed (at that point). Had to walk into town with only shitty earpods... Better than the last earpods I had (which were the really shitty ones), but basically mediocre. It will go onto my systematic not losing stuff mental list, so should be ok in the future, but annoying. Also realise I have the phone plugged in (to desktop) more than I thought I did.

It will be the next leap in battery tech before I consider wireless... And battery tech leaps are rare, especially given the money that must be being ploughed into them at the moment (imagine cornering the entire battery market). I hope apple has got wind of some near-viable advance, but am skeptical. Perhaps more likely to see manufacturers refining the efficiency of their devices.


----------



## pesh (Oct 23, 2016)

i definitely wont be getting a 7, i'll either get a new battery in my 6 when it needs it or if its really fucked by then get an SE


----------



## 5t3IIa (Oct 24, 2016)

My safari bookmarks have gone and I can't create them again!!

Wot?


----------



## Cid (Oct 24, 2016)

pesh said:


> i definitely wont be getting a 7, i'll either get a new battery in my 6 when it needs it or if its really fucked by then get an SE



My last phone was an iPhone 4 (no 's'), so it was about time for an upgrade.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Oct 24, 2016)

5t3IIa said:


> My safari bookmarks have gone and I can't create them again!!
> 
> Wot?


OK I found'add bookmark' but where are they?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 24, 2016)

5t3IIa said:


> OK I found'add bookmark' but where are they?


Touch the bottom of the screen/web page, or the address bar and the toolbar should appear at the bottom with the little book icon being where your bookmarks are.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Oct 24, 2016)

Lazy Llama said:


> Touch the bottom of the screen/web page, or the address bar and the toolbar should appear at the bottom with the little book icon being where your bookmarks are.


It's gone! It's only got History, Shared Links and Reading List


----------



## 5t3IIa (Oct 24, 2016)

Oh, but that doesn't work. Just comes back to the web page I'm viewing...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 24, 2016)

Try restarting Safari (double-click home and flick the card upwards). 
That screen should say "Bookmarks" at the top above the icons - sounds like the Bookmarks are corrupted.
If you hit the edit button can you create a new folder?
Might be possible to do a restore from your last backup in iTunes?


----------



## 5t3IIa (Oct 24, 2016)

Lazy Llama said:


> Try restarting Safari (double-click home and flick the card upwards).
> That screen should say "Bookmarks" at the top above the icons - sounds like the Bookmarks are corrupted.
> If you hit the edit button can you create a new folder?
> Might be possible to do a restore from your last backup in iTunes?


Oh fgs, restarting safari fixed it  THANK YOU! <3


----------



## Me76 (Oct 25, 2016)

I use chrome rather than safari as I prefer it, but apple deciding one day that it would make all my notes disappear made me start using Evernote.  Even the back up was gone.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Oct 27, 2016)

Anyone here got an iPad Pro? Specifically any designers? I'm tempted to get one to replace my laptop but I'm a bit doubtful about using creative cloud on it as efficiently.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> Anyone here got an iPad Pro? Specifically any designers? I'm tempted to get one to replace my laptop but I'm a bit doubtful about using creative cloud on it as efficiently.


Loads of guys at my photography society have one...... they're nice, but I don't think they're a serious alternative for anyone who wants to edit/design images above and beyond home user dabbling.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Oct 27, 2016)

yeh, i thought so. do they address shortcuts in any way? i cant imagine laying out a mag or something without them.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 27, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> yeh, i thought so. do they address shortcuts in any way? i cant imagine laying out a mag or something without them.



Not in any way that differs to a standard iPad afaik.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Oct 27, 2016)

I really can't see the business sense of only allowing people to watch the keynote today through an apple device or safari. surely thats a classic case of preaching to the coverted.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 27, 2016)

Underwhelming so far


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 27, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> Anyone here got an iPad Pro? Specifically any designers? I'm tempted to get one to replace my laptop but I'm a bit doubtful about using creative cloud on it as efficiently.


People that I know who've used standard graphics tablets extensively seem to love them. Not so much designers as graphic artists. I guess it unifies the interface they prefer with the applications.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 27, 2016)

Who wants a quick summary of the keynote?

1. iPhone 7 is great innit. 
2. Our iOS update got rave reviews fam. 
3. We made an ap to make Apple TV a bit less confusing and to peddle content to you. 
4. Oh and Siri can do some stuff with your Apple TV. 
5. New laptops. Ain't they cool. 
6. They're thinner n stuff
7. They don't have function keys any more. 
8. Aside from the ones that still do.
9. Fingerprint scanner on the ones that don't. 

The end.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 27, 2016)

Pretty much it


----------



## Reiabuzz (Oct 28, 2016)

Well I'll always remember where I was when I woke up to this news in the guardian...

*Apple launches new MacBook Pro laptop with Touch Bar for instant emoji*


----------



## sim667 (Oct 28, 2016)

Do they still have USB ports?

Edit: no they don't...... cunts


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 28, 2016)

That's a bit special. I mean I can just about see   how you could justify headphones, but USB?


----------



## fishfinger (Oct 28, 2016)

sim667 said:


> Do they still have USB ports?
> 
> Edit: no they don't...... cunts


They're Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C, so you'll need an adapter for regular USB devices.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 28, 2016)

fishfinger said:


> They're Thunderbolt 3 / USB-C, so you'll need an adapter for regular USB devices.



I know.....

It just means that you have to buy loads of fucking adapters.


----------



## fishfinger (Oct 28, 2016)

USB-C is the future of USB. The socket is identical to Thunderbolt, and it's backwards compatible with older USB versions.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 28, 2016)

Are they ever going to make a new mac pro?


----------



## Reiabuzz (Oct 28, 2016)

Wait, so you need to buy an apple adapter just to use a usb? what was wrong with the old one?


----------



## Reiabuzz (Oct 28, 2016)

confused. hungover. long night last night. celebrating the instant emoji thing.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 28, 2016)

fishfinger said:


> USB-C is the future of USB. The socket is identical to Thunderbolt, and it's backwards compatible with older USB versions.



It is, but I'm worried about USB issues with my dj-ing software, it has problems with latency and power caused by USB.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 28, 2016)

Going forward with USB-C is fine. One standard connector that does everything makes sense.

It's just going to be a massive pain in the arse as everything swaps over, as it was with floppy discs, optical drives etc.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 28, 2016)

sim667 said:


> I know.....
> 
> It just means that you have to buy loads of fucking adapters.


Well, one. There's loads of little hubs with all sorts of different sockets on them available.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 28, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Well, one. There's loads of little hubs with all sorts of different sockets on them available.



When using DJ stuff its a good idea not to run multiple USB's through one port, it can cause latency/power issues, plus if the hub goes wrong it stops all of your stuff from working.

Source: experience.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Going forward with USB-C is fine. One standard connector that does everything makes sense.


Why does it 'make more sense' than a universal, works with everything, cheap as chips jack socket? Why? What benefit does the average punter gain in exchange for the lack of compatibility and need for adaptors?


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 28, 2016)

editor said:


> Why does it 'make more sense' than a universal, works with everything, cheap as chips jack socket? Why? What benefit does the average punter gain in exchange for the lack of compatibility and need for adaptors?



For the same reason my iPad doesn't have a parallel port or CD-ROM drive.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> For the same reason my iPad doesn't have a parallel port or CD-ROM drive.


That really, really doesn't follow at all.


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 28, 2016)

editor said:


> That really, really doesn't follow at all.



These things often don't make sense to the technologically backward, but given the passing of time they seem only natural.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 28, 2016)

TBF after I made that post it did dawn on me you can get usb to usb-c cables for next to nothing, so its less of an issue than I though.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 28, 2016)

editor said:


> Why does it 'make more sense' than a universal, works with everything, cheap as chips jack socket? Why? What benefit does the average punter gain in exchange for the lack of compatibility and need for adaptors?


We were talking about the new MacBooks. They have a headphone jack.  Calm down.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> These things often don't make sense to the technologically backward, but given the passing of time they seem only natural.


I'm sure that'll be of great comfort to those consumers who were quite happy with a headphone jack. After all, it's more £££ for Apple!


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2016)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> We were talking about the new MacBooks. They have a headphone jack.  Calm down.


*Checks thread title.


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 28, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm sure that'll be of great comfort to those consumers who were quite happy with a headphone jack. After all, it's more £££ for Apple!



Consumers who were quite happy with a headphone jack can continue to use the headphone jack on their devices. Late adopters have plenty of phones to choose from featuring a headphone jack should they later decide to purchase a new one.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> Consumers who were quite happy with a headphone jack can continue to use the headphone jack on their devices. Late adopters have plenty of phones to choose from featuring a headphone jack should they later decide to purchase a new one.


Only with an easily-lost clunky adaptor. Perhaps you prefer headphones that have to have one attached to work. I don't.


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 28, 2016)

editor said:


> Only with an easily-lost clunky adaptor. Perhaps you prefer headphones that have to have one attached to work. I don't.



No I said "Consumers who were quite happy with a headphone jack can continue to use the headphone jack on their devices." i.e. no one has stolen their headphone jacks or forcibly replaced their phones with iPhone 7s.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 28, 2016)

editor said:


> *Checks thread title.


"Related items"


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 28, 2016)

So why would someone who really wants a headphone jack and really hates using adapters buy an iPhone 7. 

This important point has not been addressed yet.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> So why would someone who really wants a headphone jack and really hates using adapters buy an iPhone 7.
> 
> This important point has not been addressed yet.


Why do iPhone fans update their phone every time a new one comes out even though the improvements are often marginal in every day use? Consumerism, is why.


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 28, 2016)

editor said:


> Why do iPhone fans update their phone every time a new one comes out even though the improvements are often marginal in every day use? Consumerism, is why.



Maybe they detest audio jacks.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 28, 2016)

editor said:


> Why do iPhone fans update their phone every time a new one comes out even though the improvements are often marginal in every day use? Consumerism, is why.



I'm not sure that's what most users do. I think most people will do it on the 2 year upgrade cycle, same as those who like any other shiny smartphones.


----------



## editor (Oct 28, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I'm not sure that's what most users do. I think most people will do it on the 2 year upgrade cycle, same as those who like any other shiny smartphones.


I said 'iPhone fans,' not 'most users.' They're the kind of people who stand in queues and whoop and highfive like fuckwits.


----------



## paolo (Oct 28, 2016)

Reiabuzz said:


> Well I'll always remember where I was when I woke up to this news in the guardian...
> 
> *Apple launches new MacBook Pro laptop with Touch Bar for instant emoji*



That was an odd headline.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 28, 2016)

QUOTE="editor, post: 14764629, member: 22"]I said 'iPhone fans,' not 'most users.' They're the kind of people who stand in queues and whoop and highfive like fuckwits.[/QUOTE]

Oh. You mean early adopters. I don't think they are limited to just Apple. I think most of us on this thread are probably guilty of consumerism for fwiw.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 31, 2016)

I queue up for the iPhone 4 (predominantly because I didn't actually have a phone, and had lasted a few days without, but was desperate to contact some friends).

My god, never again, the other people queuing up were such dicks.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 31, 2016)

editor said:


> Why do iPhone fans update their phone every time a new one comes out even though the improvements are often marginal in every day use? Consumerism, is why.



I upped from the 6 to 7+ cos the 6 was 2 years old and the battery life getting too short to last a day and for business reasons I need a phone that lasts all day. It's a company phone though, so get the VAT back and it's all offset against corporation tax anyway.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I upped from the 6 to 7+ cos the 6 was 2 years old and the battery life getting too short to last a day and for business reasons I need a phone that lasts all day. It's a company phone though, so get the VAT back and it's all offset against corporation tax anyway.


Seems a bit crazy to upgrade an entire phone just because the battery needs replacing. But - hey! - that's the way it is these days.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 31, 2016)

editor said:


> Seems a bit crazy to upgrade an entire phone just because the battery needs replacing. But - hey! - that's the way it is these days.



I put a new battery in the old one and passed it to my eldest. Don't tell the taxman though


----------



## pengaleng (Oct 31, 2016)

lots of whining on this thread, it well aint apple.


----------



## Me76 (Nov 4, 2016)

I am very excited that I have found out you can stop the automatic update thing telling me every five hours and me postponing it for days before I get bored and install the update just so it goes away.


----------



## pengaleng (Nov 6, 2016)

I dunno why everyones whining about 'losing an adaptor' when you'd just leave it attached to the end of your headphone cable cus wtf else are you gonna plug into your phone with a jack 

NOTHING. 

it's fucking dense.


----------



## souljacker (Nov 6, 2016)

pengaleng said:


> I dunno why everyones whining about 'losing an adaptor' when you'd just leave it attached to the end of your headphone cable cus wtf else are you gonna plug into your phone with a jack



But what about when you want to plug your headphones into something else?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 6, 2016)

Has any said what they think about adapters yet and losing the head phone socket?


----------



## discobastard (Nov 6, 2016)

souljacker said:


> But what about when you want to plug your headphones into something else?


Just unplug them from the adapter and put the adapter in your bag or pocket.  Then plug your headphones into destination device. 

You'll be fine.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 6, 2016)

In a year everything will be USB-C anyway.


----------



## souljacker (Nov 6, 2016)

discobastard said:


> Just unplug them from the adapter and put the adapter in your bag or pocket.  Then plug your headphones into destination device.
> 
> You'll be fine.



I'd lose that adapter in a week. My pockets are usually full of stuff and I'm always losing things that go in there. And my bag is like a black hole.

Although I'm not even sure why I'm getting involved in this. I've no intention of owning an iPhone for my personal device. I always get given them for work and I can just use the supplied headphones for conf calls anyway.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 6, 2016)

I've almost forgotten what the old iPhone plug looked like—you know, the one before they changed it and Apple Was Doomed.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> In a year everything will be USB-C anyway.


I predict that there'll still be plenty of people out there using the old 'unimproved' headphone socket. In fact they'll be in the majority by a huge margin.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 6, 2016)

editor said:


> I predict that there'll still be plenty of people out there using the old 'unimproved' headphone socket. In fact they'll be in the majority by a huge margin.


They'll have to lump it with an adaptor if they want a new phone. All the manufacturers will move to it. Of course, all the old phones will still be fine.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 6, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They'll have to lump it with an adaptor if they want a new phone. All the manufacturers will move to it. Of course, all the old phones will still be fine.



We've finally got to the point where chargers are near universal (well other then apple) and they change it again! 

Still I guess USB 3 will be good for a few years and if small laptops and other devices that need more power switch to it then it will be for the greater good I guess. 

Well until we have more fires from running more power down USB and cheap adapters from ebay.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> We've finally got to the point where chargers are near universal (well other then apple) and they change it again!
> 
> Still I guess USB 3 will be good for a few years and if small laptops and other devices that need more power switch to it then it will be for the greater good I guess.
> 
> Well until we have more fires from running more power down USB and cheap adapters from ebay.


Indeed. Just about every phone on the planet works with Micro USB apart from Apple's iPhones. Because they're so fucking special.


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They'll have to lump it with an adaptor if they want a new phone. All the manufacturers will move to it. Of course, all the old phones will still be fine.


Or just do something really wild and consumer friendly and offer USB-C _and_ a headphone socket. But then that might take up 0.2mm of precious phone space and everyone knows that absolute thinness and a pretty phone trumps a decent battery life and actual utility.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 6, 2016)

editor said:


> Indeed. Just about every phone on the planet works with Micro USB apart from Apple's iPhones. Because they're so fucking special.



Are you sure it's good for your blood pressure to keep posting on Apple threads?


----------



## editor (Nov 6, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Are you sure it's good for your blood pressure to keep posting on Apple threads?


Not sure why you think it impacts my blood pressure. I'm generally quite amused by the company and the responses of some of its more enthusiastic fans/'defenders.'

Incidentally, Android's market share now stands at an all time high of 87.6% while Apple has slumped to 11.7%. Windows Phone continues to vanish into obscurity.
IDC: Smartphone OS Market Share


----------



## sim667 (Nov 10, 2016)

Does anyone have bluetooth headphones for their iPhone 6? And how does it effect battery life?

I want to get some headphones with a mic (I accidentally bought ones without last time), and am wondering whether bluetooth is the way to go.

I do also worry that when the headphones are out of battery, they become useless though.

I'm thinking about trying these

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-...=8-3&keywords=taotronics+bluetooth+headphones


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 10, 2016)

Problem with buying earphones online is, unless you've tried them out before, it's impossible to get a true sense of sound and comfort. 

I find, for example that most in-ear headphones are designed with that rubber/silicone material on the end which blocks the ear so much I can hear myself breathing which I hate. Also, much like sunglasses, I find them incredibly easy to misplace or damage so anything much over £30 doesn't make sense for day to day use.

Hence why I tend to stick to just using apple's own white headphones which I actually rather like, except for the colour. The hard outer shell sits comfortably in the ear but doesn't bung it up, and the bass response it still pretty good.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 10, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Problem with buying earphones online is, unless you've tried them out before, it's impossible to get a true sense of sound and comfort.
> 
> I find, for example that most in-ear headphones are designed with that rubber/silicone material on the end which blocks the ear so much I can hear myself breathing which I hate. Also, much like sunglasses, I find them incredibly easy to misplace or damage so anything much over £30 doesn't make sense for day to day use.
> 
> Hence why I tend to stick to just using apple's own white headphones which I actually rather like, except for the colour. The hard outer shell sits comfortably in the ear but doesn't bung it up, and the bass response it still pretty good.



Ah ok. 

I like them right in my ear.... I can't stand the apple standard ones as they fall out all the time 

I've got a pair of these, which I love, but i keep getting tangled up in the cables when I'm at the gym.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Betron-Earphones-Headphones-Definition-BlackBerry/dp/B00S2P0M1C

I would still carry wired ones when I'm traveling and don't want my phone battery to run down so much, but for day to day usage as I'm at a desk and can plug in an charge stuff, I'm thinking bluetooth might be a good way to go


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 10, 2016)

sim667 said:


> Ah ok.
> 
> I like them right in my ear.... I can't stand the apple standard ones as they fall out all the time
> 
> ...



Yeah everyone's ears are different. I'm still upset that Sony don't still do the MDR-W08L model, which was basically perfect for my needs and slotted into my ear comfortably, and allowed me to sleep with them in, great bass, volume control, everything.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 25, 2016)

Just picked up a black 7 Plus. So far, so very zippy....


----------



## souljacker (Nov 25, 2016)

Got a new black 7 for work. Its a lovely little phone except I put it in my pocket with the my new Nexus 6p and the extruded camera lens has scratched the nexus screen. Fuck you Apple!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 25, 2016)

souljacker said:


> Got a new black 7 for work. Its a lovely little phone except I put it in my pocket with the my new Nexus 6p and the extruded camera lens has scratched the nexus screen. Fuck you Apple!


The sticky-out lens on my 6S has gotten cracked recently, which is the first time I've ever broken any glass part of an iPhone. It actually still works okay except if there's any bright light around that could flare, at which point you get massive curvy lines all over the shop, and have to shield it with your hand, which is both awkward and makes you look like a tit.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 28, 2016)

I used Apple Pay for the first time today. It's handy for retail but it's not fast enough for tubes and buses where speed is of the essence.

I've decided to just shove my oyster card on the back of the phone wedged inside the case which is way more efficient.


----------



## souljacker (Dec 1, 2016)

Just been on a conf call using my headphones. Battery was low when I started the call and it was dragging on and on and on until I was down to 3%. If only I could plug in my charger at the same time...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 1, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> I used Apple Pay for the first time today. It's handy for retail but it's not fast enough for tubes and buses where speed is of the essence.
> 
> I've decided to just shove my oyster card on the back of the phone wedged inside the case which is way more efficient.




Ive had no problem using the tube with apple pay..


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 1, 2016)

souljacker said:


> Just been on a conf call using my headphones. Battery was low when I started the call and it was dragging on and on and on until I was down to 3%. If only I could plug in my charger at the same time...



I guess you'll leap at the chance to upgrade to an iPhone 8 featuring wireless charging then


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 1, 2016)

souljacker said:


> Just been on a conf call using my headphones. Battery was low when I started the call and it was dragging on and on and on until I was down to 3%. If only I could plug in my charger at the same time...



As I predicted ages ago, you can get splitters which solve that issue for a couple of quid on ebay now

2 in 1 Splitter to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter Cable For iPhone 7 6S plus+  | eBay


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 1, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> Ive had no problem using the tube with apple pay..



It's just that fraction too long compared to an Oyster card for me. Fine if you're not in a rush but I'm often shuffling my way through rush hour tube crowds and, and the time it takes to recognise apple pay and then I have to position my thumb to register the touch ID can be annoying for me and others. Not to mention I'm suddenly aware of how twatty it looks in a crowd of people all using regular Oyster or contactless cards.

It's a good backup though.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 1, 2016)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Are you sure it's good for your blood pressure to keep posting on Apple threads?



He's always been a bit weird about Apple...


.


----------



## pesh (Dec 1, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> Ive had no problem using the tube with apple pay..


I've had a lot of problems with people in front of my trying to use it... If you can't work your phone please move out the way till you figure it out.


----------



## xenon (Dec 1, 2016)

Apple Pay is bullshit. Stop waving your phone round and just use your contactless card.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 2, 2016)

xenon said:


> Apple Pay is bullshit. Stop waving your phone round and just use your contactless card.


Except I haven't got a contactless card and my bank don't seem to want to give me one...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 2, 2016)

xenon said:


> Apple Pay is bullshit. Stop waving your phone round and just use your contactless card.


Far quicker to use my phone thanks.


----------



## Cid (Dec 4, 2016)

Well the lighting headphone adapter for mine has now gone kaput...


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 6, 2016)

xenon said:


> Apple Pay is bullshit. Stop waving your phone round and just use your contactless card.



Apple Pay is fantastic and much faster than getting your card out.


.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 6, 2016)

Apple Pay is useful when it comes to other apps. For instance, I paid for some Christmas family voyage train tickets with Apple Pay just now. The whole process of buying massively overpriced train tickets (OVER 70 QUID RETURN FFS I COULD LITERALLY GO ABROAD FOR THAT THIS WOULD BE CONSIDERED A DISGRACE IN ANY CIVILISED COUNTRY BUT NOOOOOO RIP OFF BRITAIN) is bad enough without having any extra hassles attached.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 6, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apple Pay is useful when it comes to other apps. For instance, I paid for some Christmas family voyage train tickets with Apple Pay just now. The whole process of buying massively overpriced train tickets (OVER 70 QUID RETURN FFS I COULD LITERALLY GO ABROAD FOR THAT THIS WOULD BE CONSIDERED A DISGRACE IN ANY CIVILISED COUNTRY BUT NOOOOOO RIP OFF BRITAIN) is bad enough without having any extra hassles attached.


I like being able to look in the wallet and see my last couple of transactions. 

So much quicker than logging into online banking when all you want is a quick reminder.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 6, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apple Pay is useful when it comes to other apps. For instance, I paid for some Christmas family voyage train tickets with Apple Pay just now. The whole process of buying massively overpriced train tickets (OVER 70 QUID RETURN FFS I COULD LITERALLY GO ABROAD FOR THAT THIS WOULD BE CONSIDERED A DISGRACE IN ANY CIVILISED COUNTRY BUT NOOOOOO RIP OFF BRITAIN) is bad enough without having any extra hassles attached.


In MacOS now too


----------



## souljacker (Dec 6, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> As I predicted ages ago, you can get splitters which solve that issue for a couple of quid on ebay now
> 
> 2 in 1 Splitter to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter Cable For iPhone 7 6S plus+  | eBay



That is shit though.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 7, 2016)

souljacker said:


> That is shit though.



It'll permanently sit on the end of my work desk charging cable and my bedside charging cable

It's really not a problem and I'm not bothered how neat it looks either.


----------



## souljacker (Dec 7, 2016)

It's bull shit though. Why should I have to pay extra and add additional shitty looking connectors just so I can make sure my phone doesn't run out of battery whilst on a call? It's fucking idiotic.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 7, 2016)

souljacker said:


> It's bull shit though. Why should I have to pay extra and add additional shitty looking connectors just so I can make sure my phone doesn't run out of battery whilst on a call? It's fucking idiotic.



You don't though, unless you decided to buy an iPhone 7, which would have been pretty silly given that you find this situation idiotic.


----------



## souljacker (Dec 7, 2016)

It's a work phone, I don't get a choice. Which makes it even more annoying as I'm not often on 3 hour conf calls with my personal phone.


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 7, 2016)

souljacker said:


> It's a work phone, I don't get a choice. Which makes it even more annoying as I'm not often on 3 hour conf calls with my personal phone.



Can't you just tell your employer that the phone is not capable of performing the required functions, get a replacement?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 7, 2016)

Gromit said:


> I like being able to look in the wallet and see my last couple of transactions.
> 
> So much quicker than logging into online banking when all you want is a quick reminder.



That's one of the things I like about Android Pay. Very handy. 

Lots of booze visits to the local Spar...confirmed!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 7, 2016)

souljacker said:


> It's a work phone, I don't get a choice. Which makes it even more annoying as I'm not often on 3 hour conf calls with my personal phone.



Tell them you need a Bluetooth headset.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 7, 2016)

xenon said:


> Apple Pay is bullshit. Stop waving your phone round and just use your contactless card.


Contactless cards are bullshit. Stop waving your card around and just enter four digits. Why is that so onerous that you'd want to save two seconds? Your time that valuable?


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 7, 2016)

Out of interest, this just occurred to me, can you use Apple Pay from your lock screen? Or do you have to unlock first...?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 7, 2016)

danny la rouge said:


> Out of interest, this just occurred to me, can you use Apple Pay from your lock screen? Or do you have to unlock first...?


Double tap the home button. Touch phone to reader. Done.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 14, 2016)

It still isn't fast enough plus having to do touch ID with one hand is still more of a pain with a 7 Plus size phablet phone, and makes me more prone to dropping it, than just getting out a regular contactless card. IMO.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 14, 2016)

I need a new iPhone 6 case..... I'm thinking of getting a waterproof tough one as I'm a clumsy bugger, but the best ones (life proof) are hideously expensive and a bit ugly....

Has anyone got any recommendations?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 14, 2016)

sim667 said:


> I need a new iPhone 6 case..... I'm thinking of getting a waterproof tough one as I'm a clumsy bugger, but the best ones (life proof) are hideously expensive and a bit ugly....
> 
> Has anyone got any recommendations?



Bigger cases are always more protective but if you need a compromise, consider a thinner case for the back and a glass screen protector for the front - this is what I do. It's always the front you want to protect the most.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 14, 2016)

sim667 said:


> I need a new iPhone 6 case..... I'm thinking of getting a waterproof tough one as I'm a clumsy bugger, but the best ones (life proof) are hideously expensive and a bit ugly....
> 
> Has anyone got any recommendations?



Waterproof ones are normally huge, but people I know who use them swear by Otterbox. Mine is not waterproof, but adds a fair bit of protection as it's a flip one. It's a tech 21. Judging by the state of the case the phone would be knackered if I didn't have it. 

Bear it mind Apple Pay won't work. The Android equivalent is certainly very hit and miss through mine.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 14, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> Bigger cases are always more protective but if you need a compromise, consider a thinner case for the back and a glass screen protector for the front - this is what I do. It's always the front you want to protect the most.



Just bought a 7 for Baby Bahn's birthday this weekend, have a ultra-thin clear case for the back and a glass screen protector for the front; they are great in that they crack and the screen doesn't. So all looks good to go! (Will she hate me cos she can't conference call on headphones whilst charging though???)


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 14, 2016)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> (Will she hate me cos she can't conference call on headphones whilst charging though???)



A £1.89 adaptor can solve that issue. 2 in 1 Splitter to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter Cable For iPhone 7 6S plus+  | eBay


----------



## pesh (Dec 14, 2016)

sim667 said:


> I need a new iPhone 6 case..... I'm thinking of getting a waterproof tough one as I'm a clumsy bugger, but the best ones (life proof) are hideously expensive and a bit ugly....
> 
> Has anyone got any recommendations?


Slim iPhone 6 Case | Survivor Slim
not waterproof, but gives a lot of protection, can be picked up for about £15-£20


----------



## souljacker (Dec 14, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> A £1.89 adaptor can solve that issue. 2 in 1 Splitter to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter Cable For iPhone 7 6S plus+  | eBay



That doesn't actually help though, what with the headphones needing the new connector as well. What you need is a 'daft iPhone connector splitter'.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Dec 14, 2016)

skyscraper101 said:


> A £1.89 adaptor can solve that issue. 2 in 1 Splitter to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter Cable For iPhone 7 6S plus+  | eBay




£1.89 on top of the £600 for the phone plus she'll have to 'cart it around' with her, grumble, grumble...

She'll be 13 on Sunday, she doesn't talk on the phone anyway, tis all about the texting.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 14, 2016)

souljacker said:


> That doesn't actually help though, what with the headphones needing the new connector as well. What you need is a 'daft iPhone connector splitter'.





Bahnhof Strasse said:


> £1.89 on top of the £600 for the phone plus she'll have to 'cart it around' with her, grumble, grumble...
> 
> She'll be 13 on Sunday, she doesn't talk on the phone anyway, tis all about the texting.



Sure sure.. its all a compromise, but it's a solution. And cheap.


----------



## editor (Dec 22, 2016)

$160 well spent then: 
Ouch: iFixIt slams Apple's AirPods as "low quality," unrepairable, and unrecyclable


----------



## bi0boy (Dec 22, 2016)

Yeah i bet no one has ever repaired or recycled headphones ever, nor expected them to have a high build quality.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 22, 2016)

Apple has never done accessories particularly well imho..... Their headphones have always been unusable. 

I've got a pair of bluetooth headphones for mine, which I picked up for £24.... they're cracking, and they're magnetic backed, so you can hoop them round your neck whilst not using them

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Earphones-TaoTronics-Headphones-Magnetic/dp/B017I9CBPC


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 2, 2017)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> In MacOS now too



Yup, and the Touch ID in the new MacBook Pro is a perfect accompaniment to that.


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 2, 2017)

Bought the wife a iPhone 7 for Christmas. Must say that black matte look is very nice and the haptic home button isn't as weird as I thought it'd be...!


.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 25, 2017)

Just updated my 7 Plus to iOS 10.2.1 and I swear the battery is draining faster now than before


----------



## Mojofilter (Feb 1, 2017)

I've moved over to the dark side after getting a 30% on my contract.

I'm pretty impressed, this is a solid device. 
iOS and Android are more similar than they are different IMO.


.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Feb 6, 2017)

I'm after an ad-blocker app for Safari on iPhone - anyone know or use one that does the job?


----------



## belboid (Feb 6, 2017)

Adblock Plus and (a little) more: Adblock Plus for iOS is finally here! Pssst, it's free!


----------



## discobastard (Feb 7, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> Just updated my 7 Plus to iOS 10.2.1 and I swear the battery is draining faster now than before


I have not yet updated because of your post (though I'll have to do so eventually). How's it going?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 7, 2017)

discobastard said:


> I have not yet updated because of your post (though I'll have to do so eventually). How's it going?



It seems to have gone back to normal. But for a while it was definitely draining more than usual.


----------



## Mojofilter (Feb 8, 2017)

I have to say that the battery life on my 7 Plus is phenomenal.

Over 3 hours of use and I've still got 78% left [emoji106]








.


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2017)

Mojofilter said:


> I have to say that the battery life on my 7 Plus is phenomenal.
> 
> Over 3 hours of use and I've still got 78% left [emoji106].


22% battery loss after just three hours really isn't that impressive at all, so whatever you had before must have been a really shitty phone!


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 8, 2017)

editor said:


> 22% battery loss after just three hours really isn't that impressive at all, so whatever you had before must have been a really shitty phone!



Not sure any phone could support the 13.5 hours of continuous screen time that those figures imply tbh. However one person's "continuous use" is very different from anothers


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Not sure any phone could support the 13.5 hours of continuous screen time that those figures imply tbh. However one person's "continuous use" is very different from anothers


Sony's phones are great for their optimistic estimates. Their battery life estimates on the various modes promises 58 hours or whatever. That said, the z3 is the only phone I've ever had that would actually last a full two days or regular usage.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 8, 2017)

editor said:


> 22% battery loss after just three hours really isn't that impressive at all, so whatever you had before must have been a really shitty phone!



It all depends what your doing with it.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 8, 2017)

Sony are reputedly the best for smartphone battery life. Not sure how they manage it where other maufacturers don't seem able to.

Battery life was a major reason I went for phablet size plus model iphone in the end.


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> Sony are reputedly the best for smartphone battery life. Not sure how they manage it where other maufacturers don't seem able to.
> 
> Battery life was a major reason I went for phablet size plus model iphone in the end.


On my z3 they decided to put in a 'lower' res screen not that I could tell the difference. Having ludicrously high res screens really is a bit of a waste of time and battery IMO (although Samsung seem to be able to use them and keep a big battery life)






Plus Smartphones With the Best Battery Life


----------



## Mojofilter (Feb 8, 2017)

editor said:


> 22% battery loss after just three hours really isn't that impressive at all, so whatever you had before must have been a really shitty phone!



Nexus 6P

And it's 3 hours of use - not just 3 hours after unplugging it.

.


----------



## souljacker (Feb 8, 2017)

I've got a 7 and a nexus 6p. Nexus won't last a day, iphone 7 lasts 2 days.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 8, 2017)

That chart above seems to suggest that Sony aren't the top dogs of the long battery life these days. Seems Sansung Galaxy S7s are the new dons? iPhone SE seems to be doing rather well too. No iPhone 7 Plus though.

Overall I'm pretty happy with the 7 Plus battery life. Apart from a bit of a wobble when I upgraded the other day, it seems to be back to its usual form.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Feb 21, 2017)




----------



## Cid (Mar 15, 2017)

editor you'll like this one; I am currently on my fifth (yep, fifth) jack-lighting cable. Lost the first one, the next three all failed within about 1.5 months of use. Granted it's more heavy use than normal (I probably listen to audio 8-10 hours/day), but fucking hell. Probably get slightly more abuse than normal too (catching on things and getting pulled type stuff), but on return there's no damage that would invalidate the guarantee and my earphones seem to endure.


----------



## discobastard (Mar 15, 2017)

Cid said:


> editor you'll like this one; I am currently on my fifth (yep, fifth) jack-lighting cable. Lost the first one, the next three all failed within about 1.5 months of use. Granted it's more heavy use than normal (I probably listen to audio 8-10 hohttps://www.amazon.co.uk/Bose-SoundSport-Bluetooth-Wireless-Headphones-x/dp/B01L7PSJFO/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489618580&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=bose+soundspporturs/day), but fucking hell. Probably get slightly more abuse than normal too (catching on things and getting pulled type stuff), but on return there's no damage that would invalidate the guarantee and my earphones seem to endure.


Apple earbuds are utter shit anyway.  Buy a pair of these (or some cheaper bluetooth 'phones) and it will change your life.

Bose SoundSport Bluetooth Wireless In-Ear Headphones: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics

(Yes they are expensive but you can buy much cheaper ones too, to bat away that particular criticism)

You can actually hear the music as it was meant to be heard rather than the leaky bass-free 'phones you get packaged with your device.  Best money I've ever spent on accessories.


----------



## Cid (Mar 15, 2017)

discobastard said:


> Apple earbuds are utter shit anyway.  Buy a pair of these (or some cheaper bluetooth 'phones) and it will change your life.
> 
> Bose SoundSport Bluetooth Wireless In-Ear Headphones: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
> 
> ...



No, I have decent earphones, the jack-lightning cable is the fail point.


----------



## discobastard (Mar 15, 2017)

Cid said:


> No, I have decent earphones, the jack-lightning cable is the fail point.


Bluetooth will remove that problem.

Admittedly it's bollocks if you have to spend more money, but I did and I can now forget about it.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 15, 2017)

Bluetooth audio is compressed, isn't it?

Also, then you have more batteries to run out.


----------



## discobastard (Mar 15, 2017)

teuchter said:


> Bluetooth audio is compressed, isn't it?
> 
> Also, then you have more batteries to run out.


They sound great to me.  At least the ones I have do as I finally have 'phones that fit in my ear and seal the sound in unlike any others.  I can hear dynamics in the music I listen to unlike I've been able to in any other 'phones I've ever used.

30 mins charge for 5 hours of play is pretty decent too.  Will never compare with wired if you don't want to charge but everything in life is a compromise is eh?

If you are looking for perfection then spend more, but I've used a lot of 'phones in my life and these are head and shoulders above any others.  And they twist beautifully and securely into your ears.


----------



## Cid (Mar 16, 2017)

discobastard said:


> They sound great to me.  At least the ones I have do as I finally have 'phones that fit in my ear and seal the sound in unlike any others.  I can hear dynamics in the music I listen to unlike I've been able to in any other 'phones I've ever used.
> 
> 30 mins charge for 5 hours of play is pretty decent too.  Will never compare with wired if you don't want to charge but everything in life is a compromise is eh?



Except when, as previously stated, they're used for 8-10 hours/day. I already have Shure se215s, which are I suppose high end consumer/entry level twat, I mean audiophile. They give me good sound isolation and fit my ears well. They also cost about £90 and aren't something I particularly want to trade in. At some point I might get some bluetooth ones, but battery life and price isn't there yet (and battery life may never be).


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 16, 2017)

Your Shure 215's will piss all over anything from Bose anyway


----------



## editor (Mar 16, 2017)

Only getting 5 hours of use out of a pair of headphones before I have to charge them sure sounds like a massive step backwards. All that hassle (and potential to be left without music) and a shittier sound just for the 'massive' bonus of not having a bit of cable.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 16, 2017)

Still talking about the headphone socket I see.

I had to charge my shaver this morning. I hear in the 1970s they came with power cords and there were sockets in bathrooms. Why can't things be like the old days.


----------



## Cid (Mar 16, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Still talking about the headphone socket I see.
> 
> I had to charge my shaver this morning. I hear in the 1970s they came with power cords and there were sockets in bathrooms. Why can't things be like the old days.



Still banging out the faulty comparisons I see.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 16, 2017)

Cid said:


> Still banging out the faulty comparisons I see.



I see you willingly chose to buy the only phone on the market without a headphone socket, and are now complaining about it.


----------



## Cid (Mar 16, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I see you willingly chose to buy the only phone on the market without a headphone socket, and are now complaining about it.



I don't particularly mind having to use an adaptor, it's the fact the adaptor is a piece of shit that costs £9 that bothers me.


----------



## gosub (Mar 21, 2017)

Apple denies all knowledge of Apple Watch


----------



## nuffsaid (Apr 24, 2017)

sim667 said:


> I need a new iPhone 6 case..... I'm thinking of getting a waterproof tough one as I'm a clumsy bugger, but the best ones (life proof) are hideously expensive and a bit ugly....
> 
> Has anyone got any recommendations?



You've probably bought one by now, but your post allows me to mention this ridiculous item:

Eye - Smart Android Case for iPhone

A case for your iPhone that includes an Android phone to add functionality to your case.....
Or you could just ducktape an iPhone and an Android phone together.....


----------



## Gromit (Sep 22, 2017)

Apple Sabotages Old IPhones To Sell Millions Of New Models, Harvard Study Suggests – Disclose.tv

One reason I don't automatically update.

The other is storage space for extra code that has no relevance to my device.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 23, 2017)

Gromit said:


> Apple Sabotages Old IPhones To Sell Millions Of New Models, Harvard Study Suggests – Disclose.tv
> 
> One reason I don't automatically update.
> 
> The other is storage space for extra code that has no relevance to my device.


I looked at that website and article, reckoned it looked well shoddy, and went to snopes.

FACT CHECK: Did a Harvard Study Prove That Apple Slows Down iPhones to Boost Sales of New Ones?


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 2, 2017)

Scathing review of the 8 Plus from The Guardian (of all places):

'Apple’s chunky phablet stands out like a sore thumb against its ever-more sleek rivals, and not even its decent camera and battery life can save it'

iPhone 8 Plus review: still massive – but not in a good way


----------



## editor (Oct 11, 2017)

Apple still haven't sorted out the battery life problems 

Battery Drain Tests show how fast each flagship phone's battery will last - Android Community


----------



## Piers Gibbon (Oct 15, 2017)

editor said:


> Apple still haven't sorted out the battery life problems
> 
> Battery Drain Tests show how fast each flagship phone's battery will last - Android Community



Interesting and a bit depressing. Also the article felt like it had been translated via babelfish so it made me feel even more stupiderer for sticking with iphone.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 2, 2017)

Should have posted this here really. If iOS device randomly restarting due to time based notifications. Update to iOS 11.2

Date Bug in iOS 11.1.2 Causing Crash Loop on iPhones as December 2 Hits [Updated]

Been a bad week for bugs for Apple.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 4, 2017)

Well mines alright this morning


----------



## cybershot (Dec 11, 2017)

This would tie in with my experiences of the iPhone 6 before I replaced the battery in it. Although I didn't change the battery until I had purchased the X. After a full reset and battery change, my Mother is now very pleased with my former phones performance!

Apple's Alleged Throttling of Older iPhones With Degraded Batteries Causes Controversy


----------



## nick (Dec 11, 2017)

Similar story to Cybershot: Iphone 6 on last legs - holds charge for 30 minutes max and earpiece wasn't working. Seriously weighing up the pros and cons of going for an iPhone X or an S8 (cheaper but the divorce from the apple ecosystem may be traumatic)
Today I got a battery replacement for £40. Mentioned the earpiece and he replaced that for £20 - so £60 all in and its good as new ( an outfit in Moorgate if anyone interested). Apparently most of the replacement parts are genuine. The one genuine part you can't get replaced is the screen - you may as well pay apple to fix that or accept a lower quality copy.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 11, 2017)

nick said:


> Similar story to Cybershot: Iphone 6 on last legs - holds charge for 30 minutes max and earpiece wasn't working. Seriously weighing up the pros and cons of going for an iPhone X or an S8 (cheaper but the divorce from the apple ecosystem may be traumatic)
> Today I got a battery replacement for £40. Mentioned the earpiece and he replaced that for £20 - so £60 all in and its good as new ( an outfit in Moorgate if anyone interested). Apparently most of the replacement parts are genuine. The one genuine part you can't get replaced is the screen - you may as well pay apple to fix that or accept a lower quality copy.



Following article may give you some good advice on how to get a better battery lifespan going forward. Been generally sticking to the advice of 40%-80% charge on my X except for when I know I'm going to be out and about away from a power source for a good while.

Check out out battery charging tips and tricks to make your device


----------



## nick (Dec 11, 2017)

Best advice would be not to rinse it by running processor intensive games non stop for 3 years, which I suspect is what did for mine


----------



## cybershot (Dec 11, 2017)

nick said:


> Best advice would be not to rinse it by running processor intensive games non stop for 3 years, which I suspect is what did for mine



Yup, that and the combination of the heat. Which was my problem as I used my 6 as a daily sat nav for 3 years for 1h30m a day!


----------



## sim667 (Dec 19, 2017)

I also changed my battery in my iphone 6, and obviously its made it a more usable phone...... that said batteries slow down after 2-3 years, so I wasn't really shocked my phone wasn't lasting long anymore


----------



## Virtual Blue (Dec 19, 2017)

cybershot said:


> Following article may give you some good advice on how to get a better battery lifespan going forward. Been generally sticking to the advice of 40%-80% charge on my X except for when I know I'm going to be out and about away from a power source for a good while.
> 
> Check out out battery charging tips and tricks to make your device



...but replacing iphone batteries isn't difficult, just removing the adhesive can be tricky.

my iphone x barely drops under 80%, thanks to wireless charging...


----------



## cybershot (Dec 19, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> ...but replacing iphone batteries isn't difficult, just removing the adhesive can be tricky.
> 
> my iphone x barely drops under 80%, thanks to wireless charging...



Not sure that's good for battery lifespan tbf, makes the phone hot, also wastes electricity, but if that's more convenient to you then jobs a good un.


----------



## nick (Dec 20, 2017)

In today's Times (sorry, think there is  paywall) there is a claim that recent versions of IOS throttle the speed of phones with end-of-life batteries to stop them going flat so quickly


> Users claim that merely replacing old batteries returns phones to their original performance.
> 
> By reducing the processing power, the phones should no longer power off when they’re supposed to have 40 per cent of battery life remaining.
> 
> ...


Granted it is only one analyst, so could equally be a cheap  attempt to fill a newspaper with click bait, rather than a rigorously researched expose*

* Please imagine there is an accent on the second "e"


----------



## nick (Dec 20, 2017)

Doh - just discovered that Cybershot has already posted on this, the guardian published it yesterday and Editor has got a whole thread on it.
Think I'll just go back to sleep


----------



## cybershot (Dec 20, 2017)

Apple addresses why people are saying their iPhones with older batteries are running ‘slower’


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

So I'm thinking about upgrading...... I can't decide whether I should just get an iphone 7 or splash out and get an 8


----------



## Winot (Jan 10, 2018)

sim667 said:


> So I'm thinking about upgrading...... I can't decide whether I should just get an iphone 7 or splash out and get an 8



Does the 7 have the haptic stuff? That was the biggest difference for me switching from the 6 to the 8 - I can now tell when I get a text when the phone is in my pocket.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

Winot said:


> Does the 7 have the haptic stuff? That was the biggest difference for me switching from the 6 to the 8 - I can now tell when I get a text when the phone is in my pocket.


Isn't haptic just vibrating?


----------



## Winot (Jan 10, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Isn't haptic just vibrating?



It is but it's different to the vibrate on the 6. I don't know why/how - it seems to vibrate the whole phone and it definitely makes a difference.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

The iPhone 8 also has wireless charging, which I like the idea of it, but I tend to put my phones in industrial cases so I don't break them, which I think would render that useless.

Basically I'm on a £20 a month mobile phone contract for a year, but its sim only. I would like a new phone, but I'm not prepared to pay more than £50 a month all in with a contract. If I get an iPhone 8 (with applecare) on finance for 24 months and deducted the value of my phone trade in across that, it works out at £29.30 a month, so, £49.30 a month all in (inc my contract). So its very tempting.

But then the iphone upgrade program is a little more pricey, but you pay the handset off in 20 months, and you're allowed to upgrade to a new model after 11 months..... That comes in at £55.15 a month all in inc contract, and you have to have apple care on that.

Or I can just bun off applecare and buy the phone over 24 months, offset against my trade in that would work out at £44 a month including contract


Doing similar things for an iPhone 7 is only a couple of quid cheaper a month, and the upgrade program isn't available.

Hmm..... decisions. Really I need to decide if applecare is worth it.


----------



## editor (Jan 10, 2018)

sim667 said:


> The iPhone 8 also has wireless charging, which I like the idea of it, but I tend to put my phones in industrial cases so I don't break them, which I think would render that useless.
> 
> Basically I'm on a £20 a month mobile phone contract for a year, but its sim only. I would like a new phone, but I'm not prepared to pay more than £50 a month all in with a contract. If I get an iPhone 8 (with applecare) on finance for 24 months and deducted the value of my phone trade in across that, it works out at £29.30 a month, so, £49.30 a month all in (inc my contract). So its very tempting.
> 
> ...


I love wireless charging - don't want a phone without it now - and it will work through some quite thick cases, although it would be worth checking for each one.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 10, 2018)

Due to the glass nature of the iPhone 8, it will slip off everything, so if you're going to go down the wireless charging route, get one that enables it stay in place.

The Belkin ones which Apple recommend are just flat. It does seem Belkin have however realised this problem with their latest design from CES: Belkin Launches a New Range of Wireless, Wall Chargers at CES 2018

Also, wireless charging brings the whole battery lifespan thing to the front again. It generates more heat, so will degrade your battery quicker, it also wastes energy if your the sort that gives any sort of hoot about the environment. Plus it has to be plugged in anyway to a place that probably would never be to far from where you wired cable would be anyway, so yeah...


----------



## pesh (Jan 10, 2018)

i've got a 3.5 year old iphone 6... works just fine, no noticeable lag using it and still get a day out of the battery but will definitely be getting a new one put in for £25.
don't really see any need to spend £700 - £800 just to have the headphone jack removed.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 10, 2018)

Don't know about the Apple system, but fine on my Samsung wireless charging is a fair bit slower then the cable.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 10, 2018)

pesh said:


> i've got a 3.5 year old iphone 6... works just fine, no noticeable lag using it and still get a day out of the battery but will definitely be getting a new one put in for £25.
> don't really see any need to spend £700 - £800 just to have the headphone jack removed.



I've got over the headphone jack since upgrading to an X. I have 2 sets of cheap wireless headphones, and they are fine. In fact it's liberating to not have wires going from my head to my pocket or wherever.

I'd agree that if your 6 is working well, there's not really much reason to upgrade unless you want the new camera features. I think the 8 has similar camera lenses to the X, whilst not worth the full cost on it's own however, the camera is stunning, and a well noticeable and worthwhile reason to upgrade.


----------



## editor (Jan 10, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I've got over the headphone jack since upgrading to an X. I have 2 sets of cheap wireless headphones, and they are fine. In fact it's liberating to not have wires going from my head to my pocket or wherever.
> 
> I'd agree that if your 6 is working well, there's not really much reason to upgrade unless you want the new camera features. I think the 8 has similar camera lenses to the X, whilst not worth the full cost on it's own however, the camera is stunning, and a well noticeable and worthwhile reason to upgrade.


I'd never get over losing a headphone jack. Wireless headphones are a fucking pain.


----------



## pesh (Jan 10, 2018)

wireless headphones are fucking ace in a lot of situations, and i  already use them with my 6, but the majority of the time my phone is being plugged into various sound systems via the jack connector... solid, reliable, fuck using bluetooth for that.

as for the camera side of things, the 6's camera is good enough for snappy snap crap and the LX100 i bought with the money i saved by not upgrading last year pisses on most smartphone camera offerings, if not all.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 10, 2018)

pesh said:


> wireless headphones are fucking ace in a lot of situations, and i  already use them with my 6, but the majority of the time my phone is being plugged into various sound systems via the jack connector... solid, reliable, fuck using bluetooth for that.



An adapter comes with the phone!


----------



## pesh (Jan 10, 2018)

a jack comes with my phone.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

I had the same thought about clinging onto my iphone 6 for as long as possible, and had a new battery put in it (a 3rd party one granted, because the apple deal wasn't available when I did it), however despite the improvement in battery I still regularly find my phone turning off due to low battery an hour or two before I go to bed, this is with me avoiding using apps that use battery life (although granted I use bluetooth headphones, which probably kills batteries, but then I don't want to use them if I'm going for a day out as I don't want it to kill my battery so I can use maps etc). I also noticed that my GF's iphone 7 uses 20-25% in the time mine uses 40-50%

Also I can see my iPhone getting ready to have hardware problems soon, just little things like, I can't listen to an album on Music, because it keeps skipping songs, or when I turn the phone back on I get messages coming through for about 15 mins afterward despite the fact I've already read them. Also the screen is starting to go purple in one corner, its barely noticeable right now, so if I trade it in, the person assessing probably wont notice it. In a couple of months, they definitely will. And I know there's other phones in the market, and actually some of those are probably more suited to stuff I use at home, like my google home. But apps wise, I'm heavily invested in the apple ecosystem, all my freinds use imessage and have iphones, so some of the iOS features are really handy.

So I'm now debating whether to save money and get an iPhone 7 (which I'd want the 128gb one), or the 64gb 8..... its not that I want the extra storage in the 7, its that I don't want to drop from what I currently use down to 32gb. I mean, really I think I'm pretty set on the iPhone 8..... but its just working out the cheapest way of getting it on a monthly payment plan, and weighing up the pros and cons of applecare. 

These are my workings out so far if anyones interested, although they don't take into account the cost of my contract.



> iPhone 6 trade in - £125
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

pesh said:


> wireless headphones are fucking ace in a lot of situations, and i  already use them with my 6, but the majority of the time my phone is being plugged into various sound systems via the jack connector... solid, reliable, fuck using bluetooth for that.



I mean at home, all except one of my speakers is wireless and I'm planning on changing that soon anyway. I use bluetooth headphones, and keep the charging cable for those in a little pouch attached to my keys, and there's plenty of room for both the adapted and a wired backup set of headphones. Plus I either use a little bluetooth adapted in my car, or the USB cable these days. So whilst a year ago I thought it was a pisstake, nowadays its not something that bothers me so much


----------



## cybershot (Jan 10, 2018)

sim667 said:


> keep the charging cable for those in a little pouch attached to my keys, and there's plenty of room for both the adapted and a wired backup set of headphones.



Interested in the size of this pouch please.

Any chance of a pic! DM it if you'd rather not side track the thread.

Thanks


----------



## pesh (Jan 10, 2018)

isnt the whole applecare on mobiles pointless? i thought they'd agreed that a phone has to be covered for 2 years anyway or its not fit for purpose, in this case lasting the length of your contract...


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Interested in the size of this pouch please.
> 
> Any chance of a pic! DM it if you'd rather not side track the thread.
> 
> Thanks



If you ever buy skull candy in ear headphones its just the standard one that comes with those. Its circular, 7cm diameter.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

pesh said:


> isnt the whole applecare on mobiles pointless? i thought they'd agreed that a phone has to be covered for 2 years anyway or its not fit for purpose, in this case lasting the length of your contract...



Yeah, I'm very much in two minds. But it does mean if you break the phone in your applecare period, its £79 just to get a replacement one, instead of faffing. Its also got reduced repair costs for accidental damage. So for £3-4 a month on top of my monthly payment, it seems fairly ok to me. I mean its a pint less a month really.


----------



## paolo (Jan 10, 2018)

pesh said:


> isnt the whole applecare on mobiles pointless? i thought they'd agreed that a phone has to be covered for 2 years anyway or its not fit for purpose, in this case lasting the length of your contract...



It’s the accidental damage cover that you’re buying. Plain old failure is indeed covered by statutory rights.


----------



## strung out (Jan 10, 2018)

sim667 said:


> The iPhone 8 also has wireless charging, which I like the idea of it, but I tend to put my phones in industrial cases so I don't break them, which I think would render that useless.
> 
> Basically I'm on a £20 a month mobile phone contract for a year, but its sim only. I would like a new phone, but I'm not prepared to pay more than £50 a month all in with a contract. If I get an iPhone 8 (with applecare) on finance for 24 months and deducted the value of my phone trade in across that, it works out at £29.30 a month, so, £49.30 a month all in (inc my contract). So its very tempting.
> 
> ...


Applecare on the upgrade program means you can afford to smash your phone screen twice over a 12 month period without having to pay shit loads for a replacement screen each time. Means you can bin off the massive case that stops wireless charging from working.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

Does anyone know whether the John Lewis 2 year guarantees are actually any good?

I'm going to ring up my home insurance, I'm pretty sure I've got personal item cover for accidental damage with them, and if I buy from John Lewis, then its 2 year guarantee anyway. I think they do finance too.

Edit. Ah no, its 14.9% APR on john lewis credit.

So thinking about it, if its covered on my home insurance for damage, loss, theft anyway, and the sale of goods act covers manufacturers faults, applecare seems pointless doesn't it?


----------



## cybershot (Jan 10, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Does anyone know whether the John Lewis 2 year guarantees are actually any good?
> 
> I'm going to ring up my home insurance, I'm pretty sure I've got personal item cover for accidental damage with them, and if I buy from John Lewis, then its 2 year guarantee anyway. I think they do finance too.
> 
> ...



This has been my outlook on it, but then I've never had to call onto it, and if I did, how much would it effect my home insurance going forward!

Also worth increasing the amount of cover for items you have on you when away from the house. I haven't increased mine since getting the X, which I should really do as that alone is worth more than what I've currently got it set at.

Also take your excess into consideration, if it's set to ~£300ish, is it worth claiming on for your phone?

I guess you'd still need to do the math.


----------



## spitfire (Jan 10, 2018)

cybershot said:


> An adapter comes with the phone!





pesh said:


> a jack comes with my phone.



Owing to the global supremacy of Sods Law the adapter goes missing just when you need it and the after market split charger/headphone jacks are utterly shit.

Worst thing Apple have ever designed into a phone. I use mine like pesh and it's a massive pain in the hole.

I'm a fanboi too. I'd be highly unlikely to buy anything else other than Apple. Other people can get what they like.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

spitfire said:


> Worst thing Apple have ever designed into a phone. I use mine like pesh and it's a massive pain in the hole.



There's a fair few companies implementing this in phones now. Its not long until its standard not to have one imo

Five phones without headphone slots


----------



## spitfire (Jan 10, 2018)

sim667 said:


> There's a fair few companies implementing this in phones now. Its not long until its standard not to have one imo
> 
> Five phones without headphone slots



I hate them all with equal passion. Bring back my jack!


----------



## editor (Jan 10, 2018)

sim667 said:


> There's a fair few companies implementing this in phones now. Its not long until its standard not to have one imo
> 
> Five phones without headphone slots


I hope not because having to charge up earphones just to get - what _five fucking hours_ - is absolutely fucking shit. It's pointlessly wasteful in resources and energy too.


----------



## editor (Jan 10, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Yeah, I'm very much in two minds. But it does mean if you break the phone in your applecare period, its £79 just to get a replacement one, instead of faffing. Its also got reduced repair costs for accidental damage. So for £3-4 a month on top of my monthly payment, it seems fairly ok to me. I mean its a pint less a month really.


Some banks offer cheap accidental damage phone cover too.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

editor said:


> I hope not because having to charge up earphones just to get - what _five fucking hours_ - is absolutely fucking shit. It's pointlessly wasteful in resources and energy too.



Mine last me a day off a 30 min charge roughly.... But bluetooth headphones could be better generally. The apple ones look like absolute shite.


----------



## editor (Jan 10, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Mine last me a day off a 30 min charge roughly.... But bluetooth headphones could be better generally. The apple ones look like absolute shite.


Mine last forever without a charge and sound better than any comparable cordless one for the price. 

And you're right about the Apple ones, They looking fucking ridiculous. I've  already seen one guy scrambling around the floor of a tube carriage trying to find the one that just fell out of his ear.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

editor said:


> Mine last forever without a charge and sound better than any comparable cordless one for the price.
> 
> And you're right about the Apple ones, They looking fucking ridiculous. I've  already seen one guy scrambling around the floor of a tube carriage trying to find the one that just fell out of his ear.


Thats amazing.....

I've got a set of these, really impressed with them for the price.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Earphones-TaoTronics-Headphones-Magnetic-Black/dp/B017I9CBPC


----------



## editor (Jan 10, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Thats amazing.....
> 
> I've got a set of these, really impressed with them for the price.
> 
> https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bluetooth-Earphones-TaoTronics-Headphones-Magnetic-Black/dp/B017I9CBPC


I wonder what the additional battery hit for the phone is when using Bluetooth headphones instead of wired ones?

5 Reasons not to buy Bluetooth headphones


----------



## sim667 (Jan 10, 2018)

editor said:


> I wonder what the additional battery hit for the phone is when using Bluetooth headphones instead of wired ones?
> 
> 5 Reasons not to buy Bluetooth headphones



Well I mean bluetooth will make a big difference, but my 6 is still chucking through regardless.

For example, I've just look at my phone, took it off charge at 8.20am, its now on 45% battery. I've made 2 short calls and sent quite a few messages. Maybe half hour of music via spotify. Thats about it.

Before I had the battery changed though, it would have been about 20% by now, and switching off in the next hour or so.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 10, 2018)

I’ve hardly noticed the hit at all on the x when using Bluetooth headphones and I also connect it to the car via Bluetooth. However the battery on the X for every day stuff is superb. I can get close to two days of a full charge. 

Also repeat that charging the headphones takes about 30 mins. Got a pc at work. use the USB port there. 

I must admit I recently purchased a plug adapter for my 4 way gangway that has 4 USB ports on it as switching around plugs or running out of space for stuff to charge bedside was getting ridiculous.


----------



## editor (Jan 10, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I’ve hardly noticed the hit at all on the x when using Bluetooth headphones and I also connect it to the car via Bluetooth. However the battery on the X for every day stuff is superb. I can get close to two days of a full charge.
> 
> Also repeat that charging the headphones takes about 30 mins. Got a pc at work. use the USB port there.
> 
> I must admit I recently purchased a plug adapter for my 4 way gangway that has 4 USB ports on it as switching around plugs or running out of space for stuff to charge bedside was getting ridiculous.


Yes, it's always brilliant when it's new! 

But using bluetooth when you don't have to is bound to cause a hit in battery life. 
Wireless headphones are just another thing that needs a charger/socket/cable for just precisely zero benefit to most people.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 11, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I must admit I recently purchased a plug adapter for my 4 way gangway that has 4 USB ports on it as switching around plugs or running out of space for stuff to charge bedside was getting ridiculous.



I'm seriously considering changing all the plug sockets in my house to ones with USB's fitted. USB Charging seems to be a bit of the norm now for gadgets.

Anyway, after looking at my options, what I thought was interest free from apple isn't actually interest free. So I've applied for a 30 month interest free credit card to buy it on instead, gonna buy from John lewis, and then buy applecare + with the money from the sale of my iphone six. Over 24 months should bring my monthly payments in at £29..... So with my contract, £49 a month for an iphone 8 on the equivalent of a 2 year contract. Damn sight better than about £65-70 which I'd have to pay 3 on contract.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 11, 2018)

sim667 said:


> I'm seriously considering changing all the plug sockets in my house to ones with USB's fitted. USB Charging seems to be a bit of the norm now for gadgets.
> 
> Anyway, after looking at my options, what I thought was interest free from apple isn't actually interest free. So I've applied for a 30 month interest free credit card to buy it on instead, gonna buy from John lewis, and then buy applecare + with the money from the sale of my iphone six. Over 24 months should bring my monthly payments in at £29..... So with my contract, £49 a month for an iphone 8 on the equivalent of a 2 year contract. Damn sight better than about £65-70 which I'd have to pay 3 on contract.



Are you sure?

Buying an iPhone 8? Here's our round-up of the best deals



> *Can't afford it upfront? Spread the cost interest-free with Apple*
> iPhone Payments is Apple's interest-free financing scheme – it's now available for the iPhone 8 and 8 Plus (and will be for the iPhone X too when it comes out). This allows you to buy the phone for Apple's standard price but pay only a small amount upfront and then the rest in 20 monthly instalments.
> 
> You'll be credit-checked and will need to be accepted for what's technically an interest-free loan, though. Here's what it costs:
> ...


----------



## sim667 (Jan 11, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Are you sure?
> 
> Buying an iPhone 8? Here's our round-up of the best deals



I could only find 24 month finance when you actually go to order though, which has 16.9% APR applied.

Anyway the credit card is a good shout for me. If I'm flush I can pay it off faster, if I'm poor, I've got six months leeway. If I suddenly walk into some money, I can pay it off without penalty.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 11, 2018)

sim667 said:


> I could only find 24 month finance when you actually go to order though, which has 16.9% APR applied.
> 
> Anyway the credit card is a good shout for me. If I'm flush I can pay it off faster, if I'm poor, I've got six months leeway. If I suddenly walk into some money, I can pay it off without penalty.



You have to do it in store, you can't do it online.

But yes, I'd probably have gone down the route your doing myself and pay it off quicker or have some flexibility for when real life happens, well, no probably. I did.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 11, 2018)

cybershot said:


> You have to do it in store, you can't do it online.



Ah, thats why then!


----------



## paolo (Jan 11, 2018)

Some of the Apple finance deals are hard to figure out what you’re actually getting. It’s not that they are bad per se, but needs a spreadsheet to work it all out.

A common misconception is that the “upgrade” programme gets you AppleCare for free. Which it totally does not. The standard AppleCare pricing is rolled into the loan.

And the “free upgrade”, is effectively these two things:
- A new loan (24 months)
- Old loan cancelled with offset of the value of the existing phone. (If it’s good enough, the old loan nets back to zero)
- Old AppleCare contract cancelled, new AppleCare contract started, and built in to the new loan.

It’s not a *bad* deal, but it’s not a *good* deal either.

Just free credit at the end of the day, but with temptations built in to keep you in the loop for as long as you like.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 11, 2018)

The upgrade program is good if you're heavily invested into the ecosystem, are keen to have a new phone all the time and are willing to spend the money to do so.

But I like to own my phones at some point, so when upgrade time comes I've got £150 to put into getting the new shiny shiny..... 

Its been 14 months since I've been eligible for an upgrade now though, so that 14 months reducing to a sim only contract has save me £500 ish, so it is possible to do stuff relatively cheap, if you're patient and willing to explore your options. But the time has come to upgrade my phone, especially considering how much I use it.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 11, 2018)

You need to pay admin fee plus Apple Care for the upgrade programme.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 17, 2018)

Siri’s news bulletin feature goes live in the UK and Australia


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Siri’s news bulletin feature goes live in the UK and Australia


Alexa does this but the novelty wore off in minutes.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 17, 2018)

My bet with myself that the first comment would be 'Alexa already does this' is a winner.


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2018)

cybershot said:


> My bet with myself that the first comment would be 'Alexa already does this' is a winner.


Well it's an obvious comment and not everyone has Alexa. I guess Google Home does it too, but it's not a particularly amazeballs feature.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 17, 2018)

What's the advantage of doing this as opposed to just asking to play your favourite news podcast?


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2018)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> What's the advantage of doing this as opposed to just asking to play your favourite news podcast?


None that I can see.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 17, 2018)

I have it with google home, I can either ask for the news summary, or when I get up in the morning I ask it about my day, and it will tell me the weather, whats on my calendar for the day, and then goes to the news, you can configure what news you want too....

I still haven't decided what news I really like so just default to the BBC.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 17, 2018)

I've finally decided to go for the iphone 8, picking it up afterwork.

Had a play with an x, lovely phone, and whilst I'm willing to spend good money on a phone I really like (I mean my current one has literally been everywhere with me for about 3.5 years), I just can justify the cost of the x.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 17, 2018)

Got it and all set up. Really liking Taptic and the Live Photo’s. it’s so ducking fast too, can actually keep up with my typing [emoji16]


----------



## cybershot (Jan 17, 2018)

Live Photos are really useful, but do take up a bit of storage.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 17, 2018)

Does anyone else have a wireless charging pad? If so, which one? Been eyeing up the Belkin one


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Does anyone else have a wireless charging pad? If so, which one? Been eyeing up the Belkin one


I've got a lovely super-slim flat Anker one in my office and a generic fast charge upright one by my bed. They cost around a tenner each. They're all much of a muchness I think.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 18, 2018)

So on the 10th January I use my Apple Support App to book a replacement battery for my 6s. 
Earliest appointment is 15th January. 
I go in 10 mins early and check in with a ‘specialist’.
After 20 mins someone comes to see me. 
What the issue I’m asked. 
I’ve booked a battery repair. 
What’s wrong with it I’m asked. 
I’ve had the phone ages. It’s time. 
Okay we’ll order one in and email you when it here. You won’t need to book, just turn up and it will take about an hour and a half. 

You knew I was coming in for a battery replacement. Why wasn’t one here. 

A consultant has to verify that you need one. 

I ordered one, I’ll be paying for one, it’s not like you are doing it for free, it’s been in the press, why the hell does it has to be verified? I’ve spent time and petrol to have a conversation with you that could have been done on the phone. Plus I answered a load of questions in the app to get to this stage. Was that all just a waste of time?

That’s the procedure sorry...
[Checks his iPad]
When did you buy the phone?
Years ago. 

You are in luck. Yours is one of a batch which had battery defects. Your replacement is free. 

So it looks like I didn’t have to wait for the price drop. Could have had this free previously. 
Waiting now for my come back in email.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 18, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Does anyone else have a wireless charging pad? If so, which one? Been eyeing up the Belkin one



I'd wait for the new Belkin ones with the 'slot' rather than just flat ones, there's no way a slippy iPhone 8/X is going to stay on one of those current Apple approved Belkin ones, and I don't like charging inside of a case due to increased heat = killing the battery lifespan.


----------



## cybershot (Jan 18, 2018)

Gromit said:


> You are in luck. Yours is one of a batch which had battery defects. Your replacement is free.



Since when is buying something defective, lucky!


----------



## strung out (Jan 18, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I'd wait for the new Belkin ones with the 'slot' rather than just flat ones, there's no way a slippy iPhone 8/X is going to stay on one of those current Apple approved Belkin ones, and I don't like charging inside of a case due to increased heat = killing the battery lifespan.


The belkin ones have got a rubber ring on them. My glass backed iPhone stays on it fine.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 18, 2018)

strung out said:


> The belkin ones have got a rubber ring on them. My glass backed iPhone stays on it fine.



I've got a case on my phone anyway.

iPhone 8 Armorbox Dual Layer Holster Case | i-Blason.com


----------



## editor (Jan 18, 2018)

And another



> Abug that can cripple an iPhone with a single text message has been discovered.
> 
> The so-called "text bomb" can crash, or re-start, a device upon receiving a text message containing a link to malicious code - and the victim does not even need to click to be affected.
> 
> The bug also slows Safari browser used to surf the internet on Macs and drain battery levels.



Apple 'text bomb' can crash iPhones with a single message


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jan 18, 2018)

Link is broken


----------



## cybershot (Jan 18, 2018)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Link is broken


He removed it. He said he'd disclosed this to Apple, so I'm assuming he's only gone public with it because it's been left unpatched after 180 odd days of letting them know, otherwise he's a divvy. Although to be fair, this does nothing other than be annoying.


----------



## Winot (Jan 25, 2018)

I'm having an odd problem with my iPhone 8 and Touch ID in that I quite often cannot unlock the phone *but* it works perfectly when using Apple Pay and going through tube barriers etc.

There's lots of advice on the web about fixing a general Touch ID problem (e.g. here) but I can't see why it wouldn't be working for unlock but works for everything else. 

Any ideas?


----------



## sim667 (Jan 25, 2018)

I sometimes have an issue if I've got damp hands.


----------



## Winot (Jan 25, 2018)

sim667 said:


> I sometimes have an issue if I've got damp hands.



Yeah but wouldn’t that effect unlock and Apple Pay equally?


----------



## cybershot (Jan 25, 2018)

Assume you've just wiped it completely from settings and re-enrolled.


----------



## Winot (Jan 25, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Assume you've just wiped it completely from settings and re-enrolled.



That’s what I’ll try if it persists.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 26, 2018)

Winot said:


> Yeah but wouldn’t that effect unlock and Apple Pay equally?


Ah yeah, good point.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 27, 2018)

Winot said:


> Yeah but wouldn’t that effect unlock and Apple Pay equally?


You'd think, but I also find that I can have a hard time unlocking the phone when other touch ID stuff goes through without problems. (On a 6S+ for the record.)


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 11, 2018)

Wow, MIND-BLOWING: Florida Man gets an earful from 'exploding Apple AirPod' bud

Could be fun if it was in your ear


----------



## editor (Feb 19, 2018)

Eek: Your iPhone has a new bug, and it could crash it entirely


----------



## sim667 (Feb 20, 2018)

editor said:


> Eek: Your iPhone has a new bug, and it could crash it entirely


Fix released for this last night.


Apple Releases iOS 11.2.6 With Fix for Telugu Character Bug That Causes iOS Devices to Crash


----------



## sky_blue (Feb 20, 2018)

Hmm... I didn't get the update still


----------



## sim667 (Feb 20, 2018)

sky_blue said:


> Hmm... I didn't get the update still


Installed fine on mine.

Do you have automatic updates on? It could have updated when you had it on charge last?


----------



## cybershot (Feb 22, 2018)

New Airpods & iPads incoming

Apple Plans Upgrades to Popular AirPods Headphones

Eurasian filings hint at two new iPad models coming soon


----------



## xenon (Feb 23, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You'd think, but I also find that I can have a hard time unlocking the phone when other touch ID stuff goes through without problems. (On a 6S+ for the record.)



Yeah, what's going on there? I've a few apps that are unlocked with Touch ID. They never fail. Unlocking the phone often does first / second time. Of course, to check the obvious, I've tried unlocking the apps with a non registered fingerprint and they dont' open.

I'd guess a hash of the successful fingerprint unlock is cashed so the apps just compare to that one and have a higher inaccuracy tolerance.


----------



## xenon (Feb 23, 2018)

cybershot said:


> New Airpods & iPads incoming
> 
> Apple Plans Upgrades to Popular AirPods Headphones
> 
> Eurasian filings hint at two new iPad models coming soon




The iPad line is just confusing and well, tablets are a bit meh anyway. Except the Kindle Fire 7, 40 quid. Still impressed by that.


----------



## sky_blue (Mar 6, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Installed fine on mine.
> 
> Do you have automatic updates on? It could have updated when you had it on charge last?


Yeah, I usually get a notification. I even went into the settings but couldn't find any current updates.


----------



## sky_blue (Mar 6, 2018)

xenon said:


> Yeah, what's going on there? I've a few apps that are unlocked with Touch ID. They never fail. Unlocking the phone often does first / second time. Of course, to check the obvious, I've tried unlocking the apps with a non registered fingerprint and they dont' open.
> 
> I'd guess a hash of the successful fingerprint unlock is cashed so the apps just compare to that one and have a higher inaccuracy tolerance.


That's exciting! Are you using them or actually has anyone tried them and are they worth it?


----------



## little_legs (Apr 5, 2018)

Good morning. I would appreciate some advice on the following situation: I was in Italy for a couple of days where I bought a Vodaphone tourist SIM card. It worked without any problems. On my return, I have inserted my UK SIM card in my iPhone 7, it’s a 3 Mobile SIM card, and for some reason the phone says ‘No SIM’. Does anyone have any idea what is going on? Thank you.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 5, 2018)

little_legs said:


> Good morning. I would appreciate some advice on the following situation: I was in Italy for a couple of days where I bought a Vodaphone tourist SIM card. It worked without any problems. On my return, I have inserted my UK SIM card in my iPhone 7, it’s a 3 Mobile SIM card, and for some reason the phone says ‘No SIM’. Does anyone have any idea what is going on? Thank you.



Is it locked to Vodafone? What SIM was in there before goint to Italy?


----------



## little_legs (Apr 5, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> Is it locked to Vodafone? What SIM was in there before goint to Italy?


I had a 3 Mobile pay as you go SIM card in the phone until last Friday, when I inserted it in the phone last night the phone said ‘No SIM’. The phone itself was an unlocked new phone bought from Amazon.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 5, 2018)

little_legs said:


> I had a 3 Mobile pay as you go SIM card in the phone until last Friday, when I inserted it in the phone last night the phone said ‘No SIM’. The phone itself was an unlocked new phone bought from Amazon.



I'm not sure how to help, but have you tried this?

If you get an alert about the SIM card in your iPhone

*If you get an alert about the SIM card in your iPhone*
If you get an alert that says Invalid SIM or No SIM Card installed, follow these steps.



Make sure that you have an active plan with your wireless carrier. 
Update your iPhone to the latest version of iOS.
Restart your iPhone.
Check for a carrier settings update. Go to Settings > General > About. If an update is available, you'll see a prompt to select OK or Update.
Remove your SIM card from the SIM card tray and then put the SIM card back. Make sure that the SIM tray closes completely and isn’t loose. If you use a SIM tray from a different model iPhone or from another phone manufacturer, it might not fit properly.
Try using another SIM card. If you don't have one, go to your carrier's retail store and ask them to test with another SIM card. You might need to replace your SIM card.
If you still see an alert about your SIM card, contact Apple support.

Learn what to do if you see a SIM not supported alert.


----------



## little_legs (Apr 5, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> I'm not sure how to help, but have you tried this?
> 
> If you get an alert about the SIM card in your iPhone
> 
> ...


Thanks for this. I’ll give it a try.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 14, 2018)

sim667 said:


> I've finally decided to go for the iphone 8, picking it up afterwork.
> 
> Had a play with an x, lovely phone, and whilst I'm willing to spend good money on a phone I really like (I mean my current one has literally been everywhere with me for about 3.5 years), I just can justify the cost of the x.



I’ve had the X for three months now, could never go back to buttons after using it. It’s just so fluid in it’s UX...


.


----------



## Me76 (Apr 22, 2018)

So I am trying out the switch to Android.  Luckily it's not costing me anything as a friend has given me his old HTC handset.  

Spent yesterday and today downloading and setting up apps.  Now for live testing.  

The only thing that's annoying me at the moment is not being able to double tap to get back to the top.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 24, 2018)

Me76 said:


> So I am trying out the switch to Android.  Luckily it's not costing me anything as a friend has given me his old HTC handset.
> 
> Spent yesterday and today downloading and setting up apps.  Now for live testing.
> 
> The only thing that's annoying me at the moment is not being able to double tap to get back to the top.



The dolphin browser allows you to jump to the top with a little arrow button that appears if you start scrolling up. However dolphin was becoming increasingly annoying and I recently changed to using firefox which doesn't seem to have anything similar. Is a feature I miss too.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 18, 2018)

Despite my initial reservations, I bought some airpods the other day and I'm very happy so far. The fact loads of other people are now walking around in them makes me feel less of a Nathan Barley twat now. My favourite use for them is going to sleep listening to music or radio and being able to listen with them while sleeping on my side.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 18, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Despite my initial reservations, I bought some airpods the other day and I'm very happy so far. The fact loads of other people are now walking around in them makes me feel less of a Nathan Barley twat now. My favourite use for them is going to sleep listening to music or radio and being able to listen with them while sleeping on my side.



I love mine, one of the best products Apple have made in the last 20 years imo.


.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jun 4, 2018)

...I must say, I listened to the Airpods over the weekend.
What is the fucking fuss about? For that amount, why not get Seinnheisers or Bowers&Wilkins?
I don't get it. And they look fucking stupid.

Anyone have em?


----------



## editor (Jun 4, 2018)

Virtual Blue said:


> ...I must say, I listened to the Airpods over the weekend.
> What is the fucking fuss about? For that amount, why not get Seinnheisers or Bowers&Wilkins?
> I don't get it. And they look fucking stupid.
> 
> Anyone have em?


No matter how brilliant they or may not sound they look absolutely fucking ridiculous. Worst piece of design Apple have come up with a long while.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jun 4, 2018)

editor said:


> No matter how brilliant they or may not sound they look absolutely fucking ridiculous. Worst piece of design Apple have come up with a long while.



Yes - they look like solidified sperm dangling from ear lobes.

I don't understand why they are so popular. They genuinely sound no better than a cheapie pair of Amazon buds. I was so disappointed when I heard them. Shocking at £159!!  £159!!

And when paired up with the Apple Watch, gee...that is the look of a true wanker.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 4, 2018)

I assumed that the airpod things were just a pisstake when they came out. There is no way to wear them without looking like a cock.


Anyway, iphone X2 plus is rumoured to be coming in September. Just how much could they try and price that up as? I will be in the market for a new phone in September too...


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jun 4, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I assumed that the airpod things were just a pisstake when they came out. There is no way to wear them without looking like a cock.
> 
> 
> Anyway, iphone X2 plus is rumoured to be coming in September. Just how much could they try and price that up as? I will be in the market for a new phone in September too...




Haha...to be fair the iPhone X isn't too bad, it isn't market leading but in no way is it shit.

I can't say the same for those who wear AirPods/ Applewatch - it's a look that screams 'I'm a tech savvy cunt but not really that tech savvy."


----------



## editor (Jun 4, 2018)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I assumed that the airpod things were just a pisstake when they came out. There is no way to wear them without looking like a cock.


Who wants to look like they've got two straws in their ears? Comically bad design.

And just 5 hours before you run out of battery? Fuck that.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 4, 2018)

I think that they are actually ripping the piss. Apple probably has a department staffed with people sacked from Ryanair for taking the piss too badly, airpods, £1000 x phone, X2plus I reckon will be knocking on £1500.

And I think back in the 80's/90's they knew they would end up taking the piss, so they had this as their slogan...


----------



## cybershot (Jun 4, 2018)

editor said:


> Who wants to look like they've got two straws in their ears? Comically bad design.
> 
> And just 5 hours before you run out of battery? Fuck that.



I've just been given an iPhone 8 by work (to replace my desk phone, seems my dept is going all facebook/google esque with us moving office and having laptop lockers, roaming hotdesks and all this overly American type crap) I asked for a bluetooth headset and a pair of Airpods have arrived!  (I have no idea where all this money is coming from suddenly, I'd prefer a payrise!)

I haven't used them yet, for fear of looking a knob, but will report back on quality when I do.

So now I'm proper target for muggers walking with 2 iPhones and bloody airpods!


----------



## sim667 (Jun 5, 2018)

The WWDC in 6 minutes.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 5, 2018)

Will be interesting to see how well the anti Facebook/others tracking stuff works.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jun 6, 2018)

.

Didnt realised how much i hated apple.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 7, 2018)

Since the introduction of iMessages into iCloud I'm sure Apple must be getting thousands if not millions of people suddenly subscribing to the 79p ($1) 50GB iCloud option, that could potentially bring in a huge income alone.

It's about time they upped the pathetic 5GB free to match Google and Microsoft's offerings.


----------



## Winot (Jul 1, 2018)

iPhone 8 keeps dropping connection to home Internet. Wifi is fine but no internet connection. However iPad mini in same room has stable fast connection. So it’s the phone not the internet/wifi.

Any ideas?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 1, 2018)

Do you have 2.4GHz and 5GHz Wi-fi? On separate SSIDs? Does the Mini do 5GHz?

I’ve found that I generally get poor connections on 5GHz but the 2.4GHz works more reliably.


----------



## Winot (Jul 1, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> Do you have 2.4GHz and 5GHz Wi-fi? On separate SSIDs? Does the Mini do 5GHz?
> 
> I’ve found that I generally get poor connections on 5GHz but the 2.4GHz works more reliably.



Just checked and I don't think 5GHz was turned on. Have now done so although it sounds like it's unlikely to make a difference.

IS it best to have separate SSIDs then?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jul 2, 2018)

I’m not sure there’s a “best”. 
Just that if I used the same SSID then I had less control over which devices tried to use the flakey 5GHz, so I separated them.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 2, 2018)

I'd separate them. To make life easier for your existing products, choose whichever one is the most compatible with your existing kit to have the existing SSID.

E.g. in my house, most kit supports 5GHz, So I made that SSID the same as what was already stored in my devices, with the same password.

The 2.4GHz network is renamed to VirginXXXXXX-2G.

Any devices that didn't support the 5GHz then dropped off the network, and had to be re-added to the new -2G SSID, whilst all the other kit, just happily carried on working.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 31, 2018)

Apple Reports 3Q 2018 Results: $11.5B Profit on $53.3B Revenue and 41.3M iPhones


----------



## 8ball (Jul 31, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Apple Reports 3Q 2018 Results: $11.5B Profit on $53.3B Revenue and 41.3M iPhones



That's looking pretty good considering the saturation of smartphones in the richer economies.


----------



## paolo (Aug 5, 2018)

The iPhone X is a flop. Riiiiiiiigght.

(jeez it's enormo expensive... but not really a flop. Apple are now worth more than a tiny micrometer of your London flat. Weep now, buy more phones.)

Apple's £999 iPhone X deemed a FLOP by experts – is it just too expensive?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Aug 5, 2018)

All flagships are flops.
Is Samsung's Galaxy S9 flagship a flop?

Absurd analyst says Google’s unannounced Pixel 2 and Pixel 2 XL are already a flop


----------



## paolo (Aug 5, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> All flagships are flops.
> Is Samsung's Galaxy S9 flagship a flop?
> 
> Absurd analyst says Google’s unannounced Pixel 2 and Pixel 2 XL are already a flop



Oh that’s too good.

It’s “a flop.”


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 13, 2018)

The most interesting part of yesterday’s announcement was the new watch. I think it’s the start of Apples first serious move into the health industry. 2 billion dollar company by 2025??


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2018)

You mean Trillion.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2018)

I see they’ve finally embraced dual sim, many years  too late.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2018)

I'd be tempted by the Xr, except it's bloody huge, about the size of an 8plus.

And face ID is shit. Touch ID was (is) just about perfect, losing it is stupid. No force touch either.

So, I'm gonna wait till they're released and get a cheap(er) 8 I think, to replace my now ageing 6s.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd be tempted by the Xr, except it's bloody huge, about the size of an 8plus.
> 
> And face ID is shit. Touch ID was (is) just about perfect, losing it is stupid. No force touch either.
> 
> So, I'm gonna wait till they're released and get a cheap(er) 8 I think, to replace my now ageing 6s.



Why not just get an 8 at it's reduced price now?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> Why not just get an 8 at it's now reduced price?


I'm assuming once the new ones are actually out the price will drop? Or has that already happened? I've not looked...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 13, 2018)

Was hoping they'd have something to replace the SE, but nope, all much larger and no Touch ID. 
Guess I'll stick with the SE for the time being. There's not much that it doesn't do.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> Was hoping they'd have something to replace the SE, but nope, all much larger and no Touch ID.
> Guess I'll stick with the SE for the time being. There's not much that it doesn't do.


I don't really want to get rid of my 6s as it's basically the perfect phone for me. But I'm aware it's now getting on a bit so feel I should trade it in while I can still get a decent amount for it...


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 13, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'm assuming once the new ones are actually out the price will drop? Or has that already happened? I've not looked...



I think it's happened. The 8 is £599 now.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd be tempted by the Xr, except it's bloody huge, about the size of an 8plus.
> 
> And face ID is shit. Touch ID was (is) just about perfect, losing it is stupid. No force touch either.
> 
> So, I'm gonna wait till they're released and get a cheap(er) 8 I think, to replace my now ageing 6s.



The xr is smaller than the XS Max, and the XS max is smaller than an 8 plus. *shrugs shoulders*

In terms of the always controversial topic of no headphone socket that's always popular on here, I see the new phones also do away with the lightning to jack converter, you'll now have to buy one if you don't already have one.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2018)

cybershot said:


> The xr is smaller than the XS Max, and the XS max is smaller than an 8 plus. *shrugs shoulders*


 

That's it next to an 8. Way too big.


----------



## Mrs D (Sep 13, 2018)

Lazy Llama said:


> Was hoping they'd have something to replace the SE, but nope, all much larger and no Touch ID.
> Guess I'll stick with the SE for the time being. There's not much that it doesn't do.



Maybe they want small-loving people to buy their watch instead of wait for a small phone.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 13, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> Maybe they want small-loving people to buy their watch instead of wait for a small phone.


Tried the watch. Didn't like it, took it back. And it's not a phone replacement so I'd still need to carry a phat-slab phone anyway.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

That notch remains extra-fugly. And if this is progress, I'm out.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2018)

Wired headphones? Get into the 21st century Grandad!

As for the notch Really, who cares?


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Wired headphones? Get into the 21st century Grandad!
> 
> As for the notch Really, who cares?


Do you use wireless headphones when you're sound engineering? If not why not? 
Why are you celebrating something that forces consumers to spend more money and that is more wasteful? Why are you celebrating something that gives consumers less choice and uses more energy? Oh yes. Apple.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Do you use wireless headphones when you're sound engineering? If not why not?


Because latency. Which is a non issue for listening to music on a phone. If I could get rid of the cable I trip over/walk away form the desk with it still attached to me every bloody gig (  ), I'd do so in a heartbeat.



> Why are you celebrating something that forces consumers to spend more money and that is more wasteful? Why are you celebrating something that gives consumers less choice and uses more energy? Oh yes. Apple.


I'm not exactly celebrating, it's just not really an issue for me with regards to listening to tines on my phone. If I want to use a wired pair I stick on the adapter. If not, the choice of wireless ones out there is pretty cool nowadays. No big deal.

*shrugs*


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Because latency. Which is a non issue for listening to music on a phone. If I could get rid of the cable I trip over/walk away form the desk with it still attached to me every bloody gig o), I'd do so in a heartbeat.
> 
> 
> I'm not exactly celebrating, it's just not really an issue for me with regards to listening to tines on my phone. If I want to use a wired pair I stick on the adapter. If not, the choice of wireless ones out there is pretty cool nowadays. No big deal.
> ...


The Apple Reality Distortion Effect lives on! Now - be REALLY honest here. Would you prefer it if iPhone came with USB-C *and* a headphone jack? And if so, why?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> The Apple Reality Distortion Effect lives on! Now - be REALLY honest here. Would you prefer it if iPhone came with USB-C *and* a headphone jack? And if so, why?


USB C, couldn't give a shit.The day I get excited about a charging connector I'll put a gun to my head 

Headphone jack - would make my life a tiny bit easier in that it would be one less adapter to have in my bag at work for the times I plug my phone in for background/test music. But as said bag contains audio adapters of pretty much every type imaginable and thus weighs a shitload as it is, carrying one tiny extra really isn't much of a deal.

For casual listening/wandering/travelling wireless headphones are the way to go.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Headphone jack - would make my life a tiny bit easier in that it would be one less adapter to have in my bag at work for the times I plug my phone in for background/test music.


So you _would_ prefer to have a headphone socket, but still feel obliged to call anyone else who expresses the same sentiment, 'grandad'.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> That notch remains extra-fugly. And if this is progress, I'm out.



Misleading picture on so many counts. Not a new model phone, battery is also much better on the X from last year than home button phones (Still lasts me at least one a half days almost 12 months later, admittedly not a massively heavy user) and user discretion if they want to lug a power block that size around with them. Much smaller ones will give a decent enough charge to the phone and also charge your wireless headphones, so in fact, you'd be carrying less and smaller wires with a more later phone, so some progress has been made! (unless you're an audiophile using wired £xxx headphones, then fair enough)


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Misleading picture on so many counts. Not a new model phone, battery is also much better on the X from last year than home button phones (Still lasts me at least one a half days almost 12 months later, admittedly not a massively heavy user) and user discretion if they want to lug a power block that size around with them. Much smaller ones will give a decent enough charge to the phone and also charge your wireless headphones, so in fact, you'd be carrying less and smaller wires with a more later phone, so some progress has been made! (unless you're an audiophile using wired £xxx headphones, then fair enough)


So you'd prefer your iPhone to_ not_ have a headphone socket?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Why are you celebrating something that gives consumers less choice and uses more energy? Oh yes. Apple.



The thing is, every decent Android phone will be going down this route sooner or later anyway. Only the cheapo models won't.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

cybershot said:


> The thing is, every decent Android phone will be going down this route sooner or later anyway. Only the cheapo models won't.


So the new Note and Samsung 9 aren't 'decent phones'?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> So you'd prefer your iPhone to_ not_ have a headphone socket?



It honestly doesn't bother me now I've got used to it, and wireless headphones are less restrictive when on the move, especially on trains and lugging bags around and the batteries are sufficient even on cheapo £15-£20 pairs to last a full working day listening to music. Pros and cons for both, but it's not a deal breaker on the phone I get.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> So the new Note and Samsung 9 aren't 'decent phones'?



Sooner or later means I am not comparing against current models.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> So you'd prefer your iPhone to_ not_ have a headphone socket?



what make and model headphones do you use when on the move, and how much is the RRP?


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

cybershot said:


> It honestly doesn't bother me now I've got used to it, and wireless headphones are less restrictive when on the move, especially on trains and lugging bags around and the batteries are sufficient even on cheapo £15-£20 pairs to last a full working day listening to music. Pros and cons for both, but it's not a deal breaker on the phone I get.


They're a lot more restrictive when they run out of juice and you're miles from home though.

Imagine a crazy world where you can have wireless headphones *and* a headphone jack for headphones that never ever run out of battery and sound better than their wireless equivalents? That world is possible, even if Apple don't want you to have it.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

cybershot said:


> what make and model headphones do you use when on the move, and how much is the RRP?


What on earth has that got to do with anything?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> They're a lot more restrictive when they run out of juice and you're miles from home though.
> 
> Imagine a crazy world where you can have wireless headphones *and* a headphone jack for headphones that never ever run out of battery and sound better than their wireless equivalents? That world is possible, even if Apple don't want you to have it.



We've all had this discussion numerous times in every other phone thread, so I'm not going to repeat myself on the pros and cons, or the very easy and very cheap workarounds for a scenario where you'll be listening to music endlessly, and also no doubt running out of juice on your phone anyway!


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> What on earth has that got to do with anything?



I want to know just how brilliant a quality of headphones you use so I can compare the quality against my cheap and nasty bluetooth ones. 

ETA: I mean sound quality, not build quality.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I want to know just how brilliant a quality of headphones you use so I can compare the quality against my cheap and nasty bluetooth ones.
> 
> ETA: I mean sound quality, not build quality.


Pound for pound, Bluetooth headphones clearly cost more because they need batteries/electronics etc on top of the drivers. That's rather obvious no?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2018)

To be really honest, having switched to Airpods now I really couldn't imagine a better phone to headphone experience. They sync virtually perfectly, and detect when I put them in and take them out of my ears, and the tapping function to skip back and forward is brilliant.

Most people, myself included, don't need monitor engineer levels of audio experience and zero latency when doing about their day. In fact I prefer not to have the outside world completely blocked out when I'm walking around the streets. The only time I ever want that is if I'm on a plane, and that is less than 0.5% of my life.

The lack of a headphone port has really just become a non issue, and even if I did want to plug in some wired cans, the little adaptor serves that purpose no sweat.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Pound for pound, Bluetooth headphones clearly cost more because they need batteries/electronics etc on top of the drivers. That's rather obvious no?



I don't care about cost. I will buy a pair and send them back under distance selling regs and do a multiple person sound test between those, a few pairs I have, including Airpods (work, don't ask..)


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2018)

cybershot said:


> I don't care about cost.


Lucky you.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> Lucky you.



Missed the bit, where I said I'd send them back! I'm not rich. I;m offering to do a sound quality experiment with real people who do and don't give a shit about music bit rates etc.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 13, 2018)

I don't listen to music through my phone, so Rumpole editor can drop that argument. Will be getting the XS Max for me and an XR for BB1's birthday pressie, she does use headphones and has never once expressed any concern about using the jack on her 7.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> So you _would_ prefer to have a headphone socket, but still feel obliged to call anyone else who expresses the same sentiment, 'grandad'.


Well, no, I think I was fairly clear in saying that I don't really give a shit anymore.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 13, 2018)

editor said:


> That notch remains extra-fugly. And if this is Apple, I'm out.


Fify.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 13, 2018)

When will they actually be in the shops?


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 13, 2018)

Anyone mentioned the 'top notch' of this new shit costs £1499? 

Who the fuck pays that? Besides cybershot obviously.

Watch out. I've just got a Samsung Galaxy S6 and I'm prepared to use it. 

Once I find out how it works.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 13, 2018)

Mr Retro said:


> When will they actually be in the shops?


Friday.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> Anyone mentioned the 'top notch' of this new shit costs £1499?
> 
> Who the fuck pays that? Besides cybershot obviously.



Wrong


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 13, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Wrong



No, the top notch of this shit definitely costs £1499. 

I done my research.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 13, 2018)

I’m more interested in the computational photography stuff they announced, though the details seemed a little vague.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2018)

planetgeli said:


> No, the top notch of this shit definitely costs £1499.
> 
> I done my research.



Wrong as in I’m not obviously paying.


----------



## planetgeli (Sep 13, 2018)

cybershot said:


> Wrong as in I’m not obviously paying.



Whoosh.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 15, 2018)

Had a problem with my phones WiFi and running out of charge that got way worse in the last few days. As I’m away travelling with work that’s a problem. Took it into an iStore and they gave me a new replacement phone straight away no argument. 

Was very impressed with the service


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 16, 2018)

Just upgraded to the SE. It's setting up now. Quite excited.

I bought my 5c outright when nobody wanted them anymore. It was so much better for me than the Android phone I switched from. I didn't have a good experience of Android.

But it had started to gum up and show signs of age. I've been deleting apps and stuff to make space, but when the new iPhone was released decided it was time to go to the model nobody wanted any more. This time I couldn't afford to buy a handset outright, so I got a good contract deal.

I'll let you know how I get on.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 16, 2018)

Fingerprint recognition doesn’t work. Lol.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 16, 2018)

The SE is probably the best phone they ever designed. It shall be missed.


----------



## purenarcotic (Sep 16, 2018)

I have an SE, it’s great. Dunno what I’ll do though when it dies eventually, the trend seems to be for huge phones and I have tiny hands so the size of the SE is perfect for me. Hopefully it’ll go for another few years.

The fingerprint recognition should work Danny, maybe take it back?


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 17, 2018)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I’m more interested in the computational photography stuff they announced, though the details seemed a little vague.



Happy with my iPhone X but yeah this looks very interesting.


.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 18, 2018)

iOS 12 is actually noticeably faster. Nice.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 18, 2018)

Some boring unscientific tests to prove its also the case for older hardware!

iOS 12 on the iPhone 5S, iPhone 6 Plus, and iPad Mini 2: It’s actually faster!


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 18, 2018)

purenarcotic said:


> The fingerprint recognition should work Danny


I suspect it’s a guitarist problem: I have callouses on my thumb that disrupt the whorls. 

It’s working more often now. I just have to position my thumb to avoid the knarly bits.


----------



## Shechemite (Sep 18, 2018)

Hmm. I was going to get an iPad. Was holding out to the announcement but not thing mentioned about the new ‘pro’. Considering getting the standard iPad instead of waiting for the new pro/x iPad to come out. Hmm


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 18, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I suspect it’s a guitarist problem: I have callouses on my thumb that disrupt the whorls.
> 
> It’s working more often now. I just have to position my thumb to avoid the knarly bits.


Do the setup bit several times, as if each time was a different finger, it makes it more accurate.


----------



## editor (Sep 18, 2018)

The consensus seems to be: meh.

iPhone Xs reviews are in — and tepid


----------



## Mrs D (Sep 18, 2018)

Anyone else finding ios12 has changed some kind of gamma or whiteness setting on their home screen and lock screen? It makes things harder to read, especially white text on a coloured background.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 18, 2018)

Mrs D said:


> Anyone else finding ios12 has changed some kind of gamma or whiteness setting on their home screen and lock screen? It makes things harder to read, especially white text on a coloured background.



Have you got it set to sun set - sun rise. With the sun vanishing much quicker now it comes on much earlier in the evening. Which if you’ve got bright lights on indoors can be a bit weird.


----------



## elbows (Sep 19, 2018)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Hmm. I was going to get an iPad. Was holding out to the announcement but not thing mentioned about the new ‘pro’. Considering getting the standard iPad instead of waiting for the new pro/x iPad to come out. Hmm



Its rather likely that new pro ipads will come in October, so wait if you can.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2018)

I’m enjoying my new SE. It’s running a late iOS 11. I like it so I’m nervous to update to 12.

One thing I’m not sure about is in photos it seems to do this Harry Potter thing of making slightly moving pics by default. Is there a way to take stills by default?


----------



## alex_ (Sep 22, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m enjoying my new SE. It’s running a late iOS 11. I like it so I’m nervous to update to 12.
> 
> One thing I’m not sure about is in photos it seems to do this Harry Potter thing of making slightly moving pics by default. Is there a way to take stills by default?



There is a button at the top of the camera screen you can click on it’s called Live Photo or something.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 22, 2018)

alex_ said:


> There is a button at the top of the camera screen you can click on it’s called Live Photo or something.


Found it! Cheers.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 24, 2018)

I've been having positive experiences of ios 12 so far, liking it a lot.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 24, 2018)

Sent from my iphone XS Max


Like it so far. Well worth £1100


----------



## paolo (Sep 27, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m enjoying my new SE. It’s running a late iOS 11. I like it so I’m nervous to update to 12.
> 
> One thing I’m not sure about is in photos it seems to do this Harry Potter thing of making slightly moving pics by default. Is there a way to take stills by default?



Mate at work has just installed iOS 12 on his SE and has found it faster.


----------



## danny la rouge (Sep 27, 2018)

paolo said:


> Mate at work has just installed iOS 12 on his SE and has found it faster.


I installed yesterday. Not noticed any speed difference. But the screen time widget is alarming!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 27, 2018)

paolo said:


> Mate at work has just installed iOS 12 on his SE and has found it faster.


Mines been much quicker and better on battery.


----------



## pesh (Sep 27, 2018)

It’s running noticeably faster on my 6


----------



## mod (Sep 27, 2018)

Anyone else's iPhone kep asking for the iCloud password a lot when opening apps? Very annoying


----------



## paolo (Sep 27, 2018)

mod said:


> Anyone else's iPhone kep asking for the iCloud password a lot when opening apps? Very annoying



No, both tablet and phone have been fine for me.

That sounds very weird. If Apple still do online chat based support, could be worth raising a support case.

(They fixed something for me on my Mac that was iCloud related, ages back.)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 27, 2018)

mod said:


> Anyone else's iPhone kep asking for the iCloud password a lot when opening apps? Very annoying


My phone does this occasionally, no idea why.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 27, 2018)

Apparently, the Xiaomi Mi8 is better in pretty much every respect, (including the camera) than the iPhone X. 
At about 1/3 of the price of the iPhone (or less), I think I'll be treating myself to one.
I was going to say Apple are falling behind and need to up their game but I reckon if they re-released the iPhone 1 and called it retro, their loyal fanboys customers would still be camping outside Apple stores to buy it.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 27, 2018)

Saul Goodman said:


> Apparently, the Xiaomi Mi8 is better in pretty much every respect, (including the camera) than the iPhone X.
> At about 1/3 of the price of the iPhone (or less), I think I'll be treating myself to one.
> I was going to say Apple are falling behind and need to up their game but I reckon if they re-released the iPhone 1 and called it retro, their loyal fanboys customers would still be camping outside Apple stores to buy it.


Great post.  [emoji1360]


----------



## discobastard (Sep 27, 2018)

Made fuck all difference to my 6S. It’s slower obv because it’s 3 generations old but it still works pretty good anyway. But can’t tell difference.


----------



## Hollis (Sep 29, 2018)

I got an iPad pro through work. It cost them about £650 I think. My first foray into Apple products. It's very nice.  But I'm struggling to see how it's really any better than my old Lenova tab2, which cost us £110.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2018)

Hollis said:


> I got an iPad pro through work. It cost them about £650 I think. My first foray into Apple products. It's very nice.  But I'm struggling to see how it's really any better than my old Lenova tab2, which cost us £110.


You need to look at the logo. That's why it cost so much!


----------



## paolo (Sep 29, 2018)

Hollis said:


> I got an iPad pro through work. It cost them about £650 I think. My first foray into Apple products. It's very nice.  But I'm struggling to see how it's really any better than my old Lenova tab2, which cost us £110.



Sounds like overkill for your needs.

(And mine too. I bought a new iPad mini the other day for £150.)


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 1, 2018)

Don’t think this has affected me, but:

Apple iOS 12 Has An Embarrassing Problem — Forbes Magazine

“The problem is iOS 12’s implementation of this feature* is merging threads with different contacts, thereby creating potentially embarrassing situations where your message can go to several people unintentionally.”



* a unified thread for iMessage contacts who have multiple phone numbers and emails.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 1, 2018)

That sounds like a stupid idea in the first place even if it works as intended because you might see your contact's different messages all in one thread but they won't, and they'd start to get replies to email by text and so on.

Just the other day I was talking to a friend with an iphone who didn't rrealise that if she sends a group text, non iphone users don't see it as a group message. Which explains why sometimes messages from her don't make any sense because I don't know who else is copied in.

I think apple are a bit stupid about this stuff, designing things for a fictional world where everyone has an iphone.


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Don’t think this has affected me, but:
> 
> Apple iOS 12 Has An Embarrassing Problem — Forbes Magazine
> 
> ...


That's quite the clusterfuck: 

iMessage - Two Contacts have merged/combi… - Apple Community


----------



## cybershot (Oct 8, 2018)

Apple Releasing iOS 12.0.1 With Fixes for Wi-Fi 2.4GHz Bug, Lightning Charging Issue [Update: Now Available]


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2018)

Mrs la rouge has up until now had a feature phone on which she only called or texted.

But she wanted to be able to FaceTime  our grown up daughters and be involved in group messaging. So she got an iPhone SE. 

She is extremely technophobic. She won’t even use computers. She has an email address but I open the account (because she won’t even allow me to tell her the password. Because that makes her panic), and she dictates them to me. She has online banking on the laptop, but gets me to operate it. (Again, she gets me - a dyslexic discalculic with a bad memory - to look after the passwords). She will come home from work and greet me with “I want to send an email to Jo”. (Her half sister).

But on getting the phone became enamoured with Apple News and a Feedly news app I set up with things that interest her (books, art, film, health, exercise etc). She’s been scrolling through these things like a teenager. 

Anyway. I went to walk the dog and returned to find she’d tried to install iOS 12. She doesn’t even know what it is. She just started following commands on the screen. She got half way through amd buggered up the Apple ID (because she doesn’t know it. Because she told me not to bother her with details like that, “just get it working”). 

Now I’ve got the same screen asking for Apple ID and I can’t move forward or backwards. The only device she has is her phone. Nothing else. 

Fuckety fuck. 

This has been a long moan about my partner of 25 years whom I love deeply but who drives me fucking nuts.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 11, 2018)

Get thee to an Apple store.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 11, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Mrs la rouge has up until now had a feature phone on which she only called or texted.
> 
> But she wanted to be able to FaceTime  our grown up daughters and be involved in group messaging. So she got an iPhone SE.
> 
> ...



She's probably blocked her account..... give them a call and see if they can unlock it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2018)

sim667 said:


> She's probably blocked her account..... give them a call and see if they can unlock it.


Just been at the Apple shop. The guy fixed it in two seconds.

“We’ve had hundreds of these in the last couple of weeks. We don’t know what’s happening”.

So it wasn’t her. I take it all back.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 11, 2018)

He seemed to believe it was a matter of logging on using a different WiFi. As it worked I don’t need to know any more than that.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2018)

Apple Leak Reveals Radical New iPhone Design

Looks like we should be seeing in-display fingerprint ID in the not too distant. It's evident that a lot of people hate Face ID, and this was always going to be the most ideal solution once the technology was ready.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apple Leak Reveals Radical New iPhone Design
> 
> Looks like we should be seeing in-display fingerprint ID in the not too distant. It's evident that a lot of people hate Face ID, and this was always going to be the most ideal solution once the technology was ready.


Apple innovates again! Oh, wait.....


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2018)

editor said:


> Apple innovates again! Oh, wait.....



As we both know, it's a misconception that Apple has ever really innovated anything. Everything they've ever done including the iPod and iPhone have just been well designed and better marketed versions of already existing tech. Their skill, historically, has been in capturing the largest share of the market in key territories (recently not as successfully, see the HomePod for example).

They're just in a bind now with iPhones because the smartphone market has matured and they can't apply any exciting new improvements to match their twice yearly upgrades. Indeed a lot of people hate FaceID and preferred the home button sensor. IMO it was always a fudge because the tech wasn't ready to do in-display fingerprint ID and anyway only geeks care enough about things like bezel and wireless charging to the point of buying an upgrade now. It's just not enough to get anyone excited anymore. Even the fanboys have stopped queuing outside the stores. Not to mention the price of the X is ridiculous for what it is. Xiaomi et al are proving that it's entirely possible to release good new smartphones for a quarter of the price, and _that_ is the most innovative thing out there right now.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 3, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> As we both know, it's misconception that Apple has ever really innovated anything. Everything they've ever done including the iPod and iPhone have just been well designed and better marketed versions of already existing tech. Their skill, historically, has been in capturing the largest share of the market in key territories (recently not as successfully, see the HomePod for example).
> 
> They're just in a bind now with iPhones because the smartphone market has matured and they can't apply any exciting new improvements to match their twice yearly upgrades. Indeed a lot of people hate FaceID and preferred the home button sensor. IMO it was always a fudge because the tech wasn't ready to do in-display fingerprint ID and anyway only geeks care enough about things like bezel and wireless charging to the point of buying an upgrade now. It's just not enough to get anyone excited anymore. Even the fanboys have stopped queuing outside the stores. Not to mention the price of the X is ridiculous for what it is. Xiaomi et al are proving that it's entirely possible to release good new smartphones for a quarter of the price, and _that_ is the most innovative thing out there right now.


Apple's genius is in user interface.
They take other people's ideas and make the user experience better through better interfaces.

MP3 players were great. It the wheel control on the iPod that led to the mainstream.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Apple's genius is in user interface.
> They take other people's ideas and make the user experience better through better interfaces.
> 
> MP3 players were great. It the wheel control on the iPod that led to the mainstream.



In a vast number of cases, that's true. Though I'd stop short in respect of iTunes which I had the misfortune to have to use yesterday. The faff to get a simple mp3 album loaded onto my phone from my computer was ridiculous.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 3, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> In a vast number of cases, that's true. Though I'd stop short in respect of iTunes which I had the misfortune to have to use yesterday. The faff to get a simple mp3 album loaded onto my phone from my computer was ridiculous.


You can download it straight to your phone from iTunes.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2018)

Gromit said:


> You can download it straight to your phone from iTunes.



What, my torrented audiobook? I doubt it


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2018)

Gromit said:


> Apple's genius is in user interface.
> They take other people's ideas and make the user experience better through better interfaces.
> 
> MP3 players were great. It the wheel control on the iPod that led to the mainstream.


iTunes and Quicktime were the two worst pieces of software from mainstream companies I have ever installed. Just awful.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 3, 2018)

editor said:


> iTunes and Quicktime were the two worst pieces of software from mainstream companies I have ever installed. Just awful.


iTunes was great when it first came out, in comparison to the other offers, which predominantly at the time was winamp (which was horrid, just horrid).

Its just gone downhill though.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2018)

Take nothing away from the ipod classic though. It was a brilliant device, far superior to virtually every other mp3 player before or since.


----------



## editor (Dec 3, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Take nothing away from the ipod classic though. It was a brilliant device, far superior to virtually every other mp3 player before or since.


It was indeed and rightly sold by the bucketload, although the Sansa Clip players offered better value and didn't force users to use crappy Apple software.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 3, 2018)

editor said:


> although the Sansa Clip players offered better value and didn't force users to use crappy Apple software.



Also true.


----------



## joustmaster (Dec 20, 2018)

Apple confirms some iPad Pros ship slightly bent, but says it’s normal



> Apple has confirmed to _The Verge_ that some of its 2018 iPad Pros are shipping with a very slight bend in the aluminum chassis. But according to the company, this is a side effect of the device’s manufacturing process and shouldn’t worsen over time or negatively affect the flagship iPad’s performance in any practical way. Apple does not consider it to be a defect.



Two grand for a bent tablet.


----------



## editor (Dec 20, 2018)

It bends like a tree in the wind!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 20, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> Apple confirms some iPad Pros ship slightly bent, but says it’s normal
> 
> 
> 
> Two grand for a bent tablet.





editor said:


> It bends like a tree in the wind!



Wow, that's pretty bad


----------



## joustmaster (Dec 20, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Wow, that's pretty bad


Isn't it.

It annoys me that they sat down and had a meeting and decided to tell people that this top of the line, high(est) end device is fine like that.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 21, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> Apple confirms some iPad Pros ship slightly bent, but says it’s normal
> 
> 
> 
> Two grand for a bent tablet.


Absolutely unbelievable! That's worse than their 'you have no signal because you're holding the phone incorrectly' bullshit.
But fanboys will still rush out to buy them, because Apple.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 25, 2018)

So a year with my Apple Air Pods and have to say they are without doubt one of the best products Apple have ever made!


.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 25, 2018)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Wow, that's pretty bad



That really is shit although I wonder how many are affected. I’ve seen a few recently and non had any issues...


.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 25, 2018)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So a year with my Apple Air Pods and have to say they are without doubt one of the best products Apple have ever made!
> 
> 
> .



Have to agree here. I wear them everywhere. I wear them to work, to bed, for lengthy phone calls. The years of wires and entanglement are over!

My pockets are now, wallet, phone, keys, travelcard, AirPods. Standard.

(eta and crucially, they aren’t those horrid rubbery type earbuds which block out all external sounds too)


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 25, 2018)

skyscraper101 said:


> Have to agree here. I wear them everywhere. I wear them to work, to bed, for lengthy phone calls. The years of wires and entanglement are over!
> 
> (eta and crucially, they aren’t those horrid rubbery type earbuds which block out all external sounds too)



Yeah they fit so well, the little pod case is just brilliant. Instant connection, works seamlessly on all my other Apple products. Very happy with them.


.


----------



## sim667 (Dec 26, 2018)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Yeah they fit so well, the little pod case is just brilliant. Instant connection, works seamlessly on all my other Apple products. Very happy with them.
> 
> 
> .


Are they comfy? I've always found the headphones that come with iphones won't stay in my ears, so assumed the airpods would be the same.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 26, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Are they comfy? I've always found the headphones that come with iphones won't stay in my ears, so assumed the airpods would be the same.



I find them fine but evidently they don’t fit for many so definitely try before you buy as they’re very similar to the wired ones.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 26, 2018)

editor said:


> It bends like a tree in the wind!



Someone needs to tell him you should cut away from yourself not towards yourself .


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 26, 2018)

sim667 said:


> Are they comfy? I've always found the headphones that come with iphones won't stay in my ears, so assumed the airpods would be the same.



Very comfy, and stay very well in place. Love little things like auto pausing if you remove one and being able to configure the double taps on them to do different things.


.


----------



## ash (Dec 26, 2018)

Help appreciated if anyone can advise. My Mum was gifting her old iPad to my niece for Xmas and had created an iTunes account for her and uploaded some money from an iTunes voucher. Turns out nieces mother has bought her an android tablet.
So my daughter has the iPad now and has her own sign in and iTunes account already.
The £25 is on the previous account, from what I can see I can’t gift that money to my daughters account or even gift apps. Apple seems to have it sewn  up even using family and friends wouldn’t work as my daughter would need to be the account manager so any apps bought could only be paid from her account and not the other (ghost) account.  
Can anyone think of or does anyone  know a solution to this?


----------



## 5t3IIa (Dec 30, 2018)

Finally worked out how to turn loops/bounce into gifs:

 

Send through WhatsApp then save again


----------



## B.I.G (Dec 30, 2018)

ash said:


> Help appreciated if anyone can advise. My Mum was gifting her old iPad to my niece for Xmas and had created an iTunes account for her and uploaded some money from an iTunes voucher. Turns out nieces mother has bought her an android tablet.
> So my daughter has the iPad now and has her own sign in and iTunes account already.
> The £25 is on the previous account, from what I can see I can’t gift that money to my daughters account or even gift apps. Apple seems to have it sewn  up even using family and friends wouldn’t work as my daughter would need to be the account manager so any apps bought could only be paid from her account and not the other (ghost) account.
> Can anyone think of or does anyone  know a solution to this?



Didn’t understand about the android bit. But gifting apps is done as linked Send App Store & iTunes Gifts via email


----------



## ash (Dec 30, 2018)

B.I.G said:


> Didn’t understand about the android bit. But gifting apps is done as linked Send App Store & iTunes Gifts via email


Thanks for the reply however you can’t gift apps or a gift card using funds that have been downloaded from a gift card. We have an account that no one is using (or will use) with the £25 on it.


----------



## B.I.G (Dec 30, 2018)

ash said:


> Thanks for the reply however you can’t gift apps or a gift card using funds that have been downloaded from a gift card. We have an account that no one is using (or will use) with the £25 on it.



Its possible to buy an app then switch back to the original id. It just asks for the password to update it.


----------



## ash (Dec 30, 2018)

B.I.G said:


> Its possible to buy an app then switch back to the original id. It just asks for the password to update it.


Oh that’s an idea I will try that... thanks ... would this work even if it’s downloaded on one iTunes account and then opened on another. The other option we thought was using it in the Mac and just having a separate log in for the specific game/games.


----------



## B.I.G (Dec 30, 2018)

ash said:


> Oh that’s an idea I will try that... thanks ... would this work even if it’s downloaded on one iTunes account and then opened on another. The other option we thought was using it in the Mac and just having a separate log in for the specific game/games.



I think so. We download work apps on a word id and people download apps on a personal id. I’d use it for as few apps as posible to avoid inconvenice and preferably games etc that will be played and then discarded when done.


----------



## teqniq (Jan 5, 2019)

Apple Removes iPhone 7 and 8 From German Stores


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 10, 2019)

This is grim. He was only 17 at the time and used the money to buy an iPhone 7, which will probably become obsolete in 2020 because it will no longer be compatible with the latest version of iOS.

Apple fan reveals the grim effect of swapping his kidney for an iPhone | Metro News


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 10, 2019)

Article is all over the place. Says that he used the money from the op in 2011 to buy an iPhone 7 (which came out in 2016), then says he bought an iPhone 4.


> Judges awarded Wang and his family £169,000 (1.47 million yuan) in compensation.


He'll be alright for an upgrade then....

If the black market price is correct, he can buy 6 more kidneys too.....


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 24, 2019)

Has anyone tried the AirPods Live Listen feature yet? Nifty little function if you're in any way hard of hearing or just want to pretend you're a secret agent.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 27, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Has anyone tried the AirPods Live Listen feature yet? Nifty little function if you're in any way hard of hearing or just want to pretend you're a secret agent.




That’s very cool, can see that being useful for some people.


.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 28, 2019)

Got the latest iWatch on Saturday. Will be using it for work and excercise. Love it so far.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 28, 2019)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That’s very cool, can see that being useful for some people.
> 
> 
> .



I tried it the other day. I can see the potential use, but I only then realised it turns the phone into the mic, not the airpods. I thought they'd be creating their own little hearing aid kind of thing. So, it's more useful for spying than for improving hearing.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Jan 29, 2019)

For those who may use it but not read much of the news...


> Apple has made the group functionality on its FaceTime application temporarily unavailable as it rushes to fix a glitch that allowed users to listen in on the people they were calling when they did not pick up the call. Under certain circumstances, the glitch also allowed callers to see video of the person they were calling before they picked up.
> 
> Apple rushes to fix FaceTime bug that let users eavesdrop on others


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2019)

pinkychukkles said:


> For those who may use it but not read much of the news...


That is a really fucking awful privacy cock up.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jan 29, 2019)

Despite from this obviously massive screw up, Facetime Audio is still my go to app for lengthy calls with my family. Not only is it free but the call quality is superb as long as you have sufficient wifi on either side. Regular cellular calls sound like something from the last century by comparison.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2019)

it really is a spectacularly leaky bug:



> Here’s how to do the iPhone FaceTime bug:
> 
> 
> Start a FaceTime Video call with an iPhone contact.
> ...


----------



## cybershot (Mar 20, 2019)

Apple's new AirPods offer longer battery life and wireless charging case


----------



## elbows (Mar 29, 2019)

The much delayed AirPower is officially dead.

Apple Officially Cancels AirPower


----------



## cybershot (Mar 29, 2019)

They will get flack, but fair play, not wanting to release something that doesn't do the job.


----------



## Virtual Blue (May 30, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Apple's new AirPods offer longer battery life and wireless charging case



got these through work.
they're amazing for connectivity - not dropped signal once.
but for music, they're average.
for calls - amazing.

strange one this as i have never used headphones other than to listen to music.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 7, 2019)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'll give a £100 to the server fund if by this exact date in five years Apple don't have a single OS running all their hardware.


Ahem


----------



## elbows (Jun 7, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Ahem



They even renamed the ipads os just to rub it in


----------



## teuchter (Jun 7, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Ahem


Did you set an alarm in your calendar for this date, 5 years ago?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 7, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Did you set an alarm in your calendar for this date, 5 years ago?


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2019)

Crispy said:


> Ahem


What was the bet you had about bezel less phones?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 7, 2019)

editor said:


> What was the bet you had about bezel less phones?


That was about tablets iirc


----------



## Crispy (Jun 7, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Did you set an alarm in your calendar for this date, 5 years ago?


You've known me for at least that long and need to ask?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 7, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That was about tablets iirc


Yep. Ipads still have bezels, despite it being technologically trivial to do away with them.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 7, 2019)

editor said:


> What was the bet you had about bezel less phones?



And the one about keyboard docks for ipads


----------



## elbows (Jun 13, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> And the one about keyboard docks for ipads



Apple were not at all keen on the mouse part of that. They have actually added bluetooth mouse support to ipadOS, but as an accessibility feature with accessibility cursor rather than standard pointer, and its not something they are promoting to the masses, they kept pretty quiet about it.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2019)

Oops! https://www.androidauthority.com/samsung-apple-display-penalty-1001280/


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 21, 2019)

OLED screens in laptops would be lovely. Even if I can't afford one.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 3, 2019)

Thought this was interesting.

Attention Correction Feature in iOS 13 Beta Enables Appearance of Eye Contact During FaceTime Calls - AIVAnet


----------



## editor (Jul 3, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Thought this was interesting.
> 
> Attention Correction Feature in iOS 13 Beta Enables Appearance of Eye Contact During FaceTime Calls - AIVAnet



Well, there's a feature I've never been waiting for. I imagine this bit of pointless tech will do its bit to further reduce battery life too.

*That said, it is slightly impressive. even if this is a fairly nonsense implementation.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 9, 2019)

It’s back! 

Apple’s Texas Hold’em game returns to the iPhone to celebrate 10 years of the App Store


----------



## cybershot (Jul 24, 2019)

Apple just released an iOS update for older phones such as the 4S. Yes it;s just a GPS fix, but when was the last time Google sent an update out for a phone that was released in 2011?

Apple releases update for old iPhones and iPads to fix GPS bug


----------



## cybershot (Jul 25, 2019)

Apple to Acquire Majority of Intel’s Smartphone Modem Business | Intel Newsroom


----------



## cybershot (Aug 30, 2019)

New but not very exciting iPhones unless you’re in it for camera improvements are announced on September 10. Rumours of new watch as well have surfaced in recent weeks, main reason for no big rumours about those is probably due to the form factor remaining pretty much the same as the series 4 so accessory makers haven’t had anything new to go on.

Personally don’t see the point in spending close to grand on a new phone that won’t support 5G, especially as we want our phones to last much longer these days and many of us happy to do battery swaps instead when the time comes. I also doubt the camera will be as good as anything we see on the huawei phones currently. Hopefully 2020 lineup will be more exciting. 

Apple Invites Media to September 10 Event at Apple Park: 'By Innovation Only'


----------



## editor (Aug 30, 2019)

Yowch! 

iPhone Attack Shock: Google Issues 1 Billion Apple Users With Critical Security Warning


----------



## elbows (Aug 30, 2019)

Thats a pretty stupid headline really. The latest of those vulnerabilities were patched and disclosed in February. The new report is all the nerdy detail about 5 different attack chains that made use of various vulnerabilities, and it certainly isnt the sort of information a billion people are expected to look at.

Its still a very serious business that is worthy of press attention, I just wish the article covered more of the actual intent of this latest detailed report, and not make up their own hyperbole about a billion users. Especially as Ian Beer of Project Zero, in his preamble, wants to draw attention to certain things that the Forbes article apparently does not.

Project Zero: A very deep dive into iOS Exploit chains found in the wild

The Forbes article only goes as far as to quote 'This indicated a group making a sustained effort to hack the users of iPhones in certain communities over a period of at least two years.'

Well, the phrase 'certain communities' is a big part of the reason why i decided to have a closer look. Let me add the other quotes from Ian Beer that are relevant:



> "To be targeted might mean simply being born in a certain geographic region or being part of a certain ethnic group."
> 
> I hope to guide the general discussion around exploitation away from a focus on the the million dollar dissident and towards discussion of the marginal cost for monitoring the n+1'th potential future dissident. I shan't get into a discussion of whether these exploits cost $1 million, $2 million, or $20 million. I will instead suggest that all of those price tags seem low for the capability to target and monitor the private activities of entire populations in real time.



So yeah, Forbes had their own story they wanted to tell, one that wasnt about dissidents and potential dissidents and broader public in 'sensitive regions' being targeted.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 6, 2019)

Apple politely tell google to fuck off. 

A message about iOS security


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Apple politely tell google to fuck off.
> 
> A message about iOS security


Not sure why you should believe either of 'em.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 10, 2019)

It’s iPhone announcement day. Not a whole lot of innovation going on. Just the usual here’s something someone else has already done but we’ll do a better job of it.

Apple Arcade, Apple TV+ which if UK prices are to match US will be £4.99 a month for the whole family, which could start a price war in the states with other content providers so on the flip that’s kinda good news especially after Netflix price rises. Apple TV+ is also free for a year with any new product purchase.

New iPad and iPad os.

New watch. Nothing major, which is always telling when the previous years model gets withdrawn from sale because it basically means it’s just as good so we can’t continue selling it for cheaper. Only major improvement is the display will remain on and this apparently doesn’t effect battery performance. One assumes you can turn it off to get better battery but who knows?

New iPhones nothing exciting other than better battery life like every year and improved cameras. I’ll keep my iPhone X for another year. Can’t really see why anyone would want to spend £699+ (From £399 with an iPhone 8 trade in, usually no good to me as my current phone usually ends up being handed down to my mum, so she’ll be gutted as she’s been eyeing up mine since I had it) on a new phone in 2019 that doesn’t support 5G. The low light camera looks great but yeah. Just basically doing what everyone else has already been doing. Be interesting to see where the camera ends up on dxomark to see if it’s outdone the others.

iOS 13 available from the 19th.

What didn’t get announced that we expected. A baked in sleep app for the watch, no shatter resistant screens (although looked a hint of it in a video that showed people throwing around iPhones, maybe they forgot to cut that bit out) no charging other devices from the phone a la Samsung.

If you want to here more from a non Apple biased view check out the verge.

Apple

Next years rumour mill already sounds much more exciting with return of Touch ID anywhere on the screen and 5G.  Two major killer features along with hopefully even better cameras that would probably make me think about a pre-order. Cash flow withstanding.

Also. ‘Still’ no improvements on the pathetic 5Gig of free space in iCloud. Which is a now becoming a  bit of a running joke.


----------



## Supine (Sep 10, 2019)

No 5G. They really missed the boat on this one


----------



## cybershot (Sep 10, 2019)

Supine said:


> No 5G. They really missed the boat on this one



They’ve always been slow to adopt new network types. It’s the same with every other ‘innovation’ from them these days. Others may beat them to the punch but they won’t release it until it actually works properly and the masses can access it. While it’s still new they won’t go near it so they can’t be blamed when it don’t work. 

You can already see next years headlines, when they take the glory for mass 5G adoption.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2019)

Is there anything in these new iPhones that hasn't already been done elsewhere? 
From what I've read so far, I think those tragic fanboy queues will be shrinking even more for this lot.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 10, 2019)

editor said:


> Is there anything in these new iPhones that hasn't already been done elsewhere?
> From what I've read so far, I think those tragic fanboy queues will be shrinking even more for this lot.



It's been the case from day 1 though really hasn't it? They just do existing tech well for the people who like it.

Harder of course these days when the competition is slicker.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 10, 2019)

editor said:


> Is there anything in these new iPhones that hasn't already been done elsewhere?
> From what I've read so far, I think those tragic fanboy queues will be shrinking even more for this lot.



Well, the underlying hardware and software is probably a ton better than what’s already out there to do the stuff on. No doubt the AI stuff for the camera will be exceptional otherwise they wouldn’t have bothered spending time on it during the demonstration. Looking forward to the dxomark review to see where it ends up.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 10, 2019)

editor said:


> Is there anything in these new iPhones that hasn't already been done elsewhere?
> From what I've read so far, I think those tragic fanboy queues will be shrinking even more for this lot.


Phone industry has reached peak innovation.
Just like the PC industry did.

Phones pretty much do what you need em to do now at more than sufficient speed and quality.

I don't need to fire lasers from my phone so it doesn't need a high energy laser array.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 10, 2019)

Gromit said:


> Phone industry has reached peak innovation.
> Just like the PC industry did.
> 
> Phones pretty much do what you need em to do now at more than sufficient speed and quality.
> ...



Indeed. I look forward to OLED filtering down a bit more, but yeah, I need no new features.

P30 has shown that decent battery life is getting there. I'd have loved an S10 for the screen, but a combo of price and battery swung it.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 10, 2019)

p.s. I think the main need now is battery life and technology to prolong it.

Apple do have an advantage on the prolonging tech side. Namely the chip doesn't have to worry about the different needs of wide variety of hardware and software products. Just Apple products.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 10, 2019)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Indeed. I look forward to OLED filtering down a bit more, but yeah, I need no new features.
> 
> P30 has shown that decent battery life is getting there. I'd have loved an S10 for the screen, but a combo of price and battery swung it.


They are trying their best to create new needs.
Like the Bothie. Pic from front and back spliced together. 
Now the slomo selfie.
I'm sure I remember someone else trying to push a new selfie type feature this year.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2019)

No wonder Trump banned Huawei if this is all the innovation Apple can offer.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 10, 2019)

editor said:


> No wonder Trump banned Huawei if this is all the innovation Apple can offer.


It's not Apple's fault that no one else has innovated anything worth stealing and relaunching as their own later on.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2019)

Gromit said:


> It's not Apple's fault that no one else has innovated anything worth stealing and relaunching as their own later on.


That doesn't even make sense. There's been plenty of innovation on other platforms, with Apple notably being 'inspired' by it.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2019)

No 5G is a killer for me.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 11, 2019)

Very odd that they are putting in 802.11ax wifi but not 5g. If the US carriers had been slow at adopting it I might understand but it looks like the big 4 over there have rolled it out in quite a few cities.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2019)

sim667 said:


> No 5G is a killer for me.


Genuinely, why? You can quite happily stream HD content on a normal 4G connection, what’s the need right now for anything faster? 

As for new phones? Meh. I’ve still got a 6s that does everything I need as quickly and smoothly as the day I bought it. It will run IOS13 plus it has Touch ID _and_ force touch. No reason at all for me to upgrade.

As for innovation in phones? That ship sailed ages ago. Until battery tech takes a leap forward it’s all just garnish. We can instantly access pretty much the entirety of human knowledge from the palm of our hands. Not much else to do after that.


----------



## souljacker (Sep 11, 2019)

5G isn't just about raw bandwidth. The latency is lower, connection time is quicker, there should be less contention in busy areas and battery consumption will be lower.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2019)

souljacker said:


> 5G isn't just about raw bandwidth. The latency is lower, connection time is quicker, there should be less contention in busy areas and battery consumption will be lower.


Lower battery consumption would be good. But the rest I can honestly say has never been a problem  Latency and connection time? To what?


----------



## souljacker (Sep 11, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Lower battery consumption would be good. But the rest I can honestly say has never been a problem  Latency and connection time? To what?



The contention thing affects most people at some point but the latency and faster connections wouldn't be noticed, no.

Either way, if I'm buying a new phone that I expect to last 2 years or more, I want the latest tech on it. Especially for over a grand!


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2019)

souljacker said:


> The contention thing affects most people at some point but the latency and faster connections wouldn't be noticed, no.
> 
> Either way, if I'm buying a new phone that I expect to last 2 years or more, I want the latest tech on it. Especially for over a grand!


Happily there's loads of alternative phones with comparable/better technology for less than a grand.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2019)

Gromit said:


> Phone industry has reached peak innovation.


No it hasn't. The stunning night camera mode introduced on the Pixel and vastly improved on the Huawei P30 Pro, plus the addition of multiple lens (including the innovative periscope telephoto on the P30) are signs of real, useful innovation. For the first time _ever,_ I now use a mobile phone camera more than my 'pro' cameras.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 11, 2019)

editor said:


> No it hasn't. The stunning night camera mode introduced on the Pixel and vastly improved on the Huawei P30 Pro, plus the addition of multiple lens (including the innovative periscope telephoto on the P30) are signs of real, useful innovation. For the first time _ever,_ I now use a mobile phone camera more than my 'pro' cameras.



I agree, but tend to think of it as evolution rather innovation. As I mentioned already I also think OLED screens are great step forward. 

Last new feature on a phone I use regularly was NFC to pay for stuff.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 11, 2019)

I think the best thing is (and some other phones have this ) is the esim and seperate nano sim which means you can effectively have a private phone and business phone in one.So far EE is the only provider to offer esims but O2 announced yesterday they will be available in a week or so.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2019)

Oh great. Slo-mo selfies. Essential!


----------



## sim667 (Sep 11, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Genuinely, why? You can quite happily stream HD content on a normal 4G connection, what’s the need right now for anything faster?
> 
> As for new phones? Meh. I’ve still got a 6s that does everything I need as quickly and smoothly as the day I bought it. It will run IOS13 plus it has Touch ID _and_ force touch. No reason at all for me to upgrade.
> 
> As for innovation in phones? That ship sailed ages ago. Until battery tech takes a leap forward it’s all just garnish. We can instantly access pretty much the entirety of human knowledge from the palm of our hands. Not much else to do after that.


Whats the point in spending nearly a grand on a phone that has very little benefits and isn't even ready for the next generation of network?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 11, 2019)

A better camera isn’t innovation. We’ve had cameras on phones for what, 20 years? They’re always going to get better, that’s just tech.

Innovation is that _first_ camera, the first decent mobile browser, the first mobile payment etc etc 

There is fuck all innovation right now. Folding screens! Woooooo!


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 12, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A better camera isn’t innovation. We’ve had cameras on phones for what, 20 years? They’re always going to get better, that’s just tech.
> 
> Innovation is that _first_ camera, the first decent mobile browser, the first mobile payment etc etc
> 
> There is fuck all innovation right now. Folding screens! Woooooo!



Tbf I think folding screens are ground breaking. But we are years away from them just being expensive, fragile toys


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> A better camera isn’t innovation. We’ve had cameras on phones for what, 20 years? They’re always going to get better, that’s just tech.


No, you're quite wrong. The machine learning AI on the Huawei/Google phones is real innovation that opens up new creative possibilities that simply weren't there before. For the first time, phones can take better pictures at night than many 'proper' cameras and that is no small achievement.

I always used to take a camera with me when I went out at night, but I don't bother most of the time now. And I'm a photographer. I'd call that innovation.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2019)

sim667 said:


> Whats the point in spending nearly a grand on a phone that has very little benefits and isn't even ready for the next generation of network?


Because_ Apple. _


----------



## Gromit (Sep 12, 2019)

I’m glad it doesn’t have 5g. No temptation to upgrade from my 10Xs.


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 12, 2019)

Have they fixed the issue with geting stuff off the phone with a USB lead? beucase if not i wont get another one.

fucking alwyas been shit for that.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 12, 2019)

Ranbay said:


> Have they fixed the issue with geting stuff off the phone with a USB lead? beucase if not i wont get another one.
> 
> fucking alwyas been shit for that.



Do people even still plug smart phones into a computer anymore?


----------



## sim667 (Sep 12, 2019)

editor said:


> Because_ Apple. _



Annoying, I would like a new phone, I'm heavily invested in the apple eco system and don't want to fuck around and lose all my apps and stuff....... but my network is also going to offer 5G very soon, so there's no point in getting a new phone or paying extra for 5G until the phone I want comes out.

I guess I may end up getting one eventually, but I'm not rushing to.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2019)

sim667 said:


> Do people even still plug smart phones into a computer anymore?


I do to transfer images off my phone (to supplement the auto cloud backup).


----------



## Ranbay (Sep 12, 2019)

sim667 said:


> Do people even still plug smart phones into a computer anymore?



Yeah,. me when i back up the photo's of your mum.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 13, 2019)

editor said:


> I do to transfer images off my phone (to supplement the auto cloud backup).


I just have flickr auto upload tbh.


----------



## Winot (Sep 13, 2019)

sim667 said:


> Do people even still plug smart phones into a computer anymore?



Yes. Means I've got a backup of preferences/passwords on various apps. Have had phone go down before and although it can be restored without a computer backup you do lose a lot of info which needs to be re-entered.


----------



## pinkychukkles (Sep 13, 2019)

Or, like me, you're too tight to pay Apple for the increased Apple ID storage space over 5GB, otherwise I would happily back up to 'the Cloud' but instead just plug my iPhone in to backup roughly every 1-2 months when I remember to.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2019)

pinkychukkles said:


> Or, like me, you're too tight to pay Apple for the increased Apple ID storage space over 5GB, otherwise I would happily back up to 'the Cloud' but instead just plug my iPhone in to backup roughly every 1-2 months when I remember to.


If you're backing up photos, you can automatically upload unlimited high quality pictures to Google Photos for _nuppence_.


----------



## nick (Sep 13, 2019)

which begs the question - what is the best / cheapest way to manage and backup your photos for piece of mind?

I'm adding to this thread as I currently use iphoto / photo with a timemachine backup onto 2 rotated external HDDs (im on a Mac).
Problem is that apple photo is an unwieldy piece of shit and I can never feel comfortable that it is capturing all of the photos that me and mine take from our various iDevices +camera plugged into the MBP


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2019)

nick said:


> which begs the question - what is the best / cheapest way to manage and backup your photos for piece of mind?
> 
> I'm adding to this thread as I currently use iphoto / photo with a timemachine backup onto 2 rotated external HDDs (im on a Mac).
> Problem is that apple photo is an unwieldy piece of shit and I can never feel comfortable that it is capturing all of the photos that me and mine take from our various iDevices +camera plugged into the MBP


I'd install Google Photos as a matter of course. It's free for high quality images but if you want to upload monster sized files there's the option of buying extra storage - 200GB for £25/year or 2TB for £80 a year. I'm thinking of going for the 2TB option as Google's smart AI lets me search images by location, names, or by typing in random things like 'pub.'

I've also got Amazon Prime and that lets you back up your full size images for no extra cost although the search interface isn't as good.

At home I've also got a 5TB backing up pics and when I get the fucking Synology server to work again, I'll back up on there too. belt and bracers all the way for precious photos!


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2019)

nick said:


> which begs the question - what is the best / cheapest way to manage and backup your photos for piece of mind?
> 
> I'm adding to this thread as I currently use iphoto / photo with a timemachine backup onto 2 rotated external HDDs (im on a Mac).
> Problem is that apple photo is an unwieldy piece of shit and I can never feel comfortable that it is capturing all of the photos that me and mine take from our various iDevices +camera plugged into the MBP



Ah backups. Never simple once you put your mind to it and certainly never cheap if you need a robust solution. 

I pay the 79p a month or whatever it is 50GB iCloud. It hardly breaks the bank and is seamless between all your idevices where you’re logged in with your Apple ID. Flip is that iCloud is obviously a sync service and not a backup service. Delete the pic from camera roll and it’s gone once you delete your ‘deetes items’ or it goes past the 30 days recycle option. 

I’d probably then say to stick to your time machine routine as well so you have a physical backup. I use a NAS instead of external storage but that’s also backed up to external storage as well which is kept at my other half’s house should the worse happen and the house goes up in flames. The external device gets synced with the NAS about every 3 weeks. 

Once we move in together hopefully next year I’ll have to figure out a new off site backup solution! I’ll probably just go back to keeping it at work instead.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 13, 2019)

Winot said:


> Yes. Means I've got a backup of preferences/passwords on various apps. Have had phone go down before and although it can be restored without a computer backup you do lose a lot of info which needs to be re-entered.



Worth checking the iCloud part of settings. A lot of apps will now sync settings and what not to iCloud so if you need to restore the app it will restore your settings and log in info. Don’t think I’ve physically backed up an iPhone to a device or iCloud for that matter since the 4s. I happily just set back to factory and restore my apps. 

Although I’d stick with the physical backups until you’ve tried and/or trust another method.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 17, 2019)

The reviews are trickling in, I'll keep editing this post rather than adding new ones. If I can be bothered!

*Apple iPhone 11 review: So good you (probably) don’t need the Pro*

*Apple iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max review: Better, but not groundbreaking*

Apple iPhone 11 review: the phone most people should buy

Apple iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max review: the battery life is real

Review of the iPhone 11 and iPhone 11 Pro and iPhone 11 Pro Max at Disneyland – TechCrunch

The camera looks fab on all models, the Pixel maybe still has them with the night mode. Now wheres the DXOMark review!


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

Comparison between the night modes as Apple tries to catch up with the competition. There's still no night mode on the front facing camera though.

Apple iPhone 11 Pro Max vs Pixel 3 XL vs Huawei P30 Pro night mode camera comparison

And whatever happened to Appler's sleek design?







Another review:
*Apple iPhone 11 Pro and Pro Max review: Better, but not groundbreaking*
Engadget is now a part of Oath


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 17, 2019)

No 5G was expected. Shame though, as that would've swung it for me.

Hopefully my 7 Plus will hold out for another year anyway.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 17, 2019)

editor said:


> And whatever happened to Appler's sleek design?


Steve Jobs died.

Steve Jobs always insisted customers didn't want big screens and longer battery life over sleek pocket sized phones.

Once he died Apple suddenly started doing bigger screens and using standard (and cheaper) battery sizes.

The bendy iPhone 6 fiasco couldn't have helped either.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

Gromit said:


> Steve Jobs died.
> 
> Steve Jobs always insisted customers didn't want big screens and longer battery life over sleek pocket sized phones.
> 
> ...


Steve Jobs was completely wrong about many, many things.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2019)

And he was usually prepared to quietly change his mind on stuff later, so his proclamations dont offer many clues about what directions Apple would have gone in if he was still alive.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2019)

Or to put it another way, those sort of 'forceful personalities' (domineering, control freak scum) can be capable of speaking in a believable and passionate manner about all manner of things that you might be forgiven for thinking are deadly held convictions of theirs. But usually its just part of the reality distortion field, just part of the sell for the latest product, their latest reality. If, 3 years later, they were releasing a product with a very different emphasis and set of compromises, then the message from the likes of Jobs would change to fit, even if it completely contradicted his earlier utterances.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2019)

Just one example. When the first iphone was announced, there was no app store. Jobs wanked on and on about how web apps would be good enough. Few believed him, and its unlikely he believed that himself, it was just some bullshit to cover the timing gap, while they worked on the app store and the things developers need to develop apps for an OS.


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## skyscraper101 (Sep 17, 2019)

Also worth remembering that when the iPhone first launched it only had 4Gb storage (pithy even back in '07), didn't have 3G, didn't even have the ability to copy/paste text, and was exclusive to only one operator in the UK. It also entered the market at a time when there was huge skepticism about virtual keyboards which turned many people off owning one for a long while (myself included). They nevertheless managed to join together enough elements of both mass market and business needs and design desirability to make it the most lucrative model of phone on the market.

Being months behind their rivals with 'innovative' features is nothing new. Nor as elbows said, are they averse to changing their mind on things (remember how Jobs hated the idea of a stylus). What they've always done well is bringing existing tech to larger audiences who don't routinely frequent the pages of TechCrunch et al.


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## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Being months behind their rivals with 'innovative' features is nothing new. Nor as elbows said, are they averse to changing their mind on things (remember how Jobs hated the idea of a stylus). What they've always done well is bringing existing tech to larger audiences who don't routinely frequent the pages of TechCrunch et al.


Except their sales continue to fall while truly innovating tech firms like Huawei expand at an exponential rate (well, until the the madman in charge of the US Govt decided to screw them over with no evidence). 

Apple will continue to thrive as they've locked in so many users into their walled garden, but the days of the company producing class-leading products have long gone.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2019)

Well I could argue that they hardly ever made class-leading products, there were a few big exceptions that caused no end of gushing praise from the tech and business press, but those things were always the exception and not the rule. 

They had an early important role in home computers, that we were not terribly well placed to witness in the UK.
They had the ipod.
The iphone.
The ipad.

And those last 3 are quite closely linked. I suppose I could shoehorn a few more in, like 'a home computer for the 2000's that isnt ugly and beige' but I dont really think that turned the tech world upside down. There were other products that were popular, but not really innovative. Or a few that were bold back in the day, but were not really ripe and were not big hits at all (eg Newton).

The reasons I will occasionally buy Apple products are much the same as they were 15 years ago. I like the operating systems. I like the fonts. And stemming from that, I like a lot of the apps.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 17, 2019)

editor said:


> Except their sales continue to fall while truly innovating tech firms like Huawei expand at an exponential rate (well, until the the madman in charge of the US Govt decided to screw them over with no evidence).
> 
> Apple will continue to thrive as they've locked in so many users into their walled garden, but the days of the company producing class-leading products have long gone.



Agree with all that. Sales falling mainly owing to lack of innovation, and market evening out with top Android products out-competing them in many areas (including price), but they still have a high perch to fall from, and enough resources and retention that waiting for things like 5G and bendy screens to mature (or not) is a luxury they can afford.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

elbows said:


> Well I could argue that they hardly ever made class-leading products, there were a few big exceptions that caused no end of gushing praise from the tech and business press, but those things were always the exception and not the rule.


I think the Apple Watch is probably the best smartwatch currently available although that square shpe is fuckng ugly and there's plenty of far cheaper alternatives that are good enough. They have had class-leading tech - the MacBook Air almost tempted me - but the iPhone has lagged behind for ages while their Android rivals have overtaken in terms of performance/price/tech. The fact that Apple still charges such eye watering prices just makes the less competitive to potential buyers. That said, in the history of tech, the iPhone still sits near the top of game-changers.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2019)

I expect they think the next big opportunity to define and temporarily claim some new corner of the IT world for their own will be AR. 

I've no idea if they will succeed, and its a slow mission. And, rather than in the past where they've often completely ignored certain tech until they consider it ripe enough to turn into a killer product, this one is being done incrementally with their 3rd party developers along for the ride. So they are putting various rudimentary AR building blocks in place on iOS, and eventually it is assumed there will be a wearable product that takes this to a different level where evangelising may then begin in earnest. I dont fancy trying to expand much on this prophecy before such a device actually exists though, and if all the pieces dont fall into place it could be a long wait.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2019)

editor said:


> I think the Apple Watch is probably the best smartwatch to currently available although that square shpe is fuckng ugly and there's plenty of far cheaper alternatives that are good enough. They have had class-leading tech - the MacBook Air almost tempted me - but the iPhone has lagged behind for ages while their Android rivals have overtaken in terms of performance/price/tech. The fact that Apple still charges such eye watering prices just makes the less competitive to potential buyers. That said, in the history of tech, the iPhone still sits near the top of game-changers.



The Watch seems quite good, I am completely out of touch with the alternatives so thats why I dont want to make any claims about how the Apple Watch compares.

I dont go on about their prices because its always been their business model, they wont ever change it unless consumers available in those price brackets are somehow wiped out.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

elbows said:


> I expect they think the next big opportunity to define and temporarily claim some new corner of the IT world for their own will be AR.


You think so? I can't see AR being that big amongst the masses.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 17, 2019)

editor said:


> You think so? I can't see AR being that big amongst the masses.



Could make for awesome sat nav.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Could make for awesome sat nav.


If you're keen to crash the car.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 17, 2019)

editor said:


> If you're keen to crash the car.



How so? You'd be taking your eyes of the road less, rather then more. Would need to be in a windscreen rather as something you wear though.


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## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> How so? You'd be taking your eyes of the road less, rather then more. Would need to be in a windscreen rather as something you wear though.


AR is totally distracting and more immersive. The last thing I want ti drivers gazing at 3D maps as they speed along.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2019)

editor said:


> You think so? I can't see AR being that big amongst the masses.



I consider it inevitable that it will become completely ubiquitous at some stage. But I cant be sure which gen of tech, or exactly what form of hardware, will be the winning proposition. It wont take too much to set some aspects back a generation, especially if we are talking about wearable stuff. (eg glasshole-related doom)

Perhaps the term AR is too narrow. I suppose my prediction about ubiquity is more about taking the world of networks, data, services and machine learning and adding a bunch of spatial computing stuff to the mix. Maybe it will go in a different direction to what I would imagine in 2019 when talking about AR, I dont know.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 17, 2019)

The watch is great. Best gadget I’ve bought in years. Just wish the battery could go 48 hours at least. 

Phone sales are dwindling but you have to tip your hat to them, that they continue to support phones that are getting on for 5 years old,which most people overlook when looking at sales charts. If a device does all a person needs it to do there’s no point in upgrading, so if you do manage to keep the device for 5 years even with a battery change you’ve got decent mileage out of it. My mum is more than happy with her 6 for example. 

FWIW the iPhone 11 also costs less than the XR so prices have actually come down. Again. Rarely mentioned, although the pro costs more XS so flashy gits will pay more. 

Also phone networks are desperate to keep customers. My other half whose contact is about to end spent Friday on live chat to Vodafone, it took a while but she got an iPhone 11 for no upfront cost and the same price a month as she was paying for her 6s. Which wasn’t the latest handset when she got it. She only has 5GB data but rarely gets close. £40 a month. Over 24 months (with option to upgrade again in 12 months) that actually works out cheaper than buying the phone out right and finding a sim only contract for £10 a month. So if you are a person that gets handsets direct from the network. Hold them to ransom. There’s deals to be had.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

elbows said:


> I consider it inevitable that it will become completely ubiquitous at some stage. But I cant be sure which gen of tech, or exactly what form of hardware, will be the winning proposition. It wont take too much to set some aspects back a generation, especially if we are talking about wearable stuff. (eg glasshole-related doom)


I think it will be ubiquitous too, but I can't see it crossing over into the mums'n'dads/family mainstream like phones have. It's like when you see sci-fi films and people have to wave their arms around in the air to get the simplest tasks done. It's silly.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 17, 2019)

I’d have thought holographic/projecting screens would be the next game changer over AR. Which could make folding screens a short lived fad.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

cybershot said:


> I’d have thought holographic/projecting screens would be the next game changer over AR. Which could make folding screens a short lived fad.
> 
> View attachment 184404


But why would you want to have to lift your finger and stab the air? Why do you think physical keyboards are still better for any kind of serious work?

And for that thing above to work in daylight, there's going to be battery-sucking graphics.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 17, 2019)

Serious work. (Who even uses their phone now for serious work) Of course not.  Browsing urban75 while while watching the footy and barely having to move my eyes away from the tv screen.  Take my money.


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## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Serious work. (Who even uses their phone now for serious work) Of course not.  Browsing urban75 while while watching the footy and barely having to move my eyes away from the tv screen.  Take my money.


You'd still have to lift your eyes to see where the holographic button floating in space was. Something you may not have to do with a keyboard.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2019)

editor said:


> I think it will be ubiquitous too, but I can't see it crossing over into the mums'n'dads/family mainstream like phones have. It's like when you see sci-fi films and people have to wave their arms around in the air to get the simplest tasks done. It's silly.



Much as there is a big side of me that likes tech for techs sake, gimmicks and all sorts of things that I expect to remain very niche or nerdy, thats not what I associate with ubiquity. For AR to take off in the way I was suggesting, very much requires various flavours of mainstream to have found compelling uses for this stuff. 

The world of AR and spatial computing on phones so far is still at the clunky stage. Low-hanging and obvious fruit in terms of applications so far started with things like measuring apps and companies salivating about customers being able to put virtual versions of their furniture etc into the context of their homes before they buy, etc etc. 

I cant predict when enough of the clunky aspects will be out of the way for this stuff to become a more obviously winning proposition with a whole bunch of killer uses. And I dont really want to go crazy coming up with all sorts of theoretical applications yet because of how far fetched or silly they may seem at this stage, when some of the complicated problems are yet to be solved, and hardware form-factors unclear.

I dont like to predict what sorts of tech will end up appealing to what sorts of people, because I grew up with computer games etc having generation connotations, that are increasingly untrue. For example the Wii did not end up being some game changing development in the grand scheme of things, but it was a pleasure to see it introduce gaming to various groups who hadnt engaged that much before, due to the different input mechanism and the momentum the platform briefly had in terms of party & sports games etc. For years my Mum went to occasional small 'Wii nights' with her retirement-age friends. Things like the Apple Watch have useful features for all sorts of different ages too.

And when it comes to how we interface with computing devices, and what catches on and what doesnt, I prefer to just wait and see. Sometimes its a long wait - for decades I was not sure if people would ever take to voice-controlled stuff or not - most indications in the clunky decades were not positive, but it was hard to know how much of that was down to the clunkiness/inaccuracy/tedium/immature tech and how much was down to other factors such as some possible psychological aversion to talking to machines. It still wasnt really clear to me in the early years after the clunkiness was much reduced and the accuracy much increased, when the likes of Siri first arrived. But now we have all these digital assistant things like Alexa all over the place, they seem to have caught on enough I suppose. I say that begrudgingly because I dont use them myself and I dont know many people who do, but they certainly resemble a mainstream thing.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

elbows said:


> It still wasnt really clear to me in the early years after the clunkiness was much reduced and the accuracy much increased, when the likes of Siri first arrived. But now we have all these digital assistant things like Alexa all over the place, they seem to have caught on enough I suppose. I say that begrudgingly because I dont use them myself and I dont know many people who do, but they certainly resemble a mainstream thing.


I'd say one of the reasons they caught on is because talking is completely natural and Alexa is genuinely useful and quicker than getting a task done by other means, but waving your arms in the air at a floating virtual interface is not. I've obviously no idea what tech will catch on next, but generally it's the things that feel natural that have the best chance, IMO.


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## elbows (Sep 17, 2019)

I dont know as projectors in phones will ever get beyond gimmick stage. Projectors are a bit shit really. Its the sort of tech that we might expect Apple to do in a compelling way, gaining a temporary advantage over the competition, if enough of the problems and downsides were overcome. I dont know as that will ever happen.

Holographic stuff is certainly one potential solution on the display side of spatial computing. But most of the solutions to this stuff are crap or at least not ripe so far. And this is a great example of an area where once it does become possible in a more practical and satisfying manner, it just reveals where the next bottleneck will come from. In the case of 3D displays, the sheer quantity of data required to drive the display can quickly go orders of magnitude beyond what our GPUs, memory etc are really able to handle at the moment.


----------



## elbows (Sep 17, 2019)

editor said:


> I'd say one of the reasons they caught on is because talking is completely natural and Alexa is genuinely useful and quicker than getting a task done by other means, but waving your arms in the air at a floating virtual interface is not. I've obviously no idea what tech will catch on next, but generally it's the things that feel natural that have the best chance, IMO.



Yeah Im not really thinking Minority Reports when I'm talking about AR and Spatial computing. There are lots of interaction challenges to solve, although arm waving probably does work in certain contexts where the task aligns with this paradigm of interaction. Haptic feedback challenges too. 

When I am imagining the future potential of AR and spatial computing, I'm not thinking that much about the interaction yet. I'm mostly restricting myself to thinking about applications where data, information, virtual objects, whatever, are placed in some way within the physical spaces we inhabit. There are a lot of uses for that sort of thing, including many that will seem gimmicky. I dont know when this stuff will be more self-evident, could be 2 years, 5 years, 10 years.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 17, 2019)

editor said:


> You think so? I can't see AR being that big amongst the masses.



I used the new AR functionality in Google Maps to navigate around Cardiff at the weekend, it was amazingly fast, accurate, useful, and bloody cool. On my £200 Android phone!


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

mwgdrwg said:


> I used the new AR functionality in Google Maps to navigate around Cardiff at the weekend, it was amazingly fast, accurate, useful, and bloody cool. On my £200 Android phone!


It's handy but you're still using a phone and not wafting around a virtual 3D interface in front of your noggin.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 17, 2019)

editor said:


> It's handy but you're still using a phone and not wafting around a virtual 3D interface in front of your noggin.



Aye, but still good to see AR being used so well.


----------



## Mr Retro (Sep 19, 2019)

It might look nicer irl but for me this is the ugliest thing Apple have done. It looks like a mock up one of those sites that speculate on what the new iPhone might look like would do.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 20, 2019)

Quite impressed with iOS 11 so far, feels much faster on my iPhone 8


----------



## cybershot (Sep 20, 2019)

11? Assume that’s a typo. 

The other half is very pleased with her iPhone 11. First time she’s ever had the latest model let alone having it on day 0.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 22, 2019)

iPhone X vs iPhone 11 (standard, not pro) night photos comparison. First photo the iPhone X, second the 11. ( hopefully urban doesn’t seem to upload in the order I selected the photos but it should be pretty obvious which is which)  No filters applied no special effects or camera trickery. I dont know if urban adds compression to photos? Last photo is a long exposure. Probably not enough traffic around to do a decent long exposure. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Also example of a normal and ultra wide photo.

 

 



Battery is good. None too heavy usage has easily lasted 48 hours on a full charge. The 11 ticks a lot of boxes to upgrade and it’s good to see such improvements in cameras when you take into account the x launch price was £999 and the 11 standard is £729, however I cannot justify dropping close to a grand on a handset that doesn’t support 5G. Maybe next year then.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 22, 2019)

One more ultra wide from the OHs sofa as I hit the upload limit.


----------



## sim667 (Sep 23, 2019)

cybershot said:


> 11? Assume that’s a typo.
> 
> The other half is very pleased with her iPhone 11. First time she’s ever had the latest model let alone having it on day 0.


Yeah sorry I meant 13


----------



## cybershot (Sep 24, 2019)

Ermmm, whaaa..

iPhone 11 Pro loses to iPhone XS in app launch speed test - 9to5Mac


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 24, 2019)

People aren't as interested in the iPhone 11 because they're waiting for a 5G model, Piper Jaffray survey says

True, in my case.


----------



## editor (Sep 24, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> People aren't as interested in the iPhone 11 because they're waiting for a 5G model, Piper Jaffray survey says
> 
> True, in my case.


Ah yes. The addition of 5G will surely give Apple an excuse to ramp the prices even higher. I'm sure it'll be positively essential for some people, by I'm more than satisfied with the speed of my phone. Web pages appear in a flash and videos stream perfectly well so I'm not sure why I'd want to pay out more for 5G (when it finally becomes widespread).


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 24, 2019)

editor said:


> Ah yes. The addition of 5G will surely give Apple an excuse to ramp the prices even higher. I'm sure it'll be positively essential for some people, by I'm more than satisfied with the speed of my phone. Web pages appear in a flash and videos stream perfectly well so I'm not sure why I'd want to pay out more for 5G (when it finally becomes widespread).



Well I constantly get dead spots and buffering/switching between 3G/4G accross London. I've had this across 3 different networks.

5G will undoubtedly improve on this so its rather a shame Apple haven't included it in their newest model because I'd have been more interested if they did.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 24, 2019)

editor said:


> Web pages appear in a flash and videos stream perfectly well so I'm not sure why I'd want to pay out more for 5G (when it finally becomes widespread).



Unless you need to be on the bleeding edge it probably wont be like that. There will be a premium at first and then it will drop to 4g prices and you'll just get 5g on the phone with the next upgrade.


----------



## pesh (Sep 24, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Well I constantly get dead spots and buffering/switching between 3G/4G accross London. I've had this across 3 different networks.
> 5G will undoubtedly improve on this...


how can you be so sure? i'm genuinely interested by this... as i understand it 5G is a short range system requiring fucktonnes of transmitters to get coverage, if you've got areas that still aren't being covered by 3G and 4G why makes it so certain that 5G will finally get it right?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 24, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> People aren't as interested in the iPhone 11 because they're waiting for a 5G model, Piper Jaffray survey says
> 
> True, in my case.



Ditto


----------



## cybershot (Sep 24, 2019)

editor said:


> Ah yes. The addition of 5G will surely give Apple an excuse to ramp the prices even higher. I'm sure it'll be positively essential for some people, by I'm more than satisfied with the speed of my phone. Web pages appear in a flash and videos stream perfectly well so I'm not sure why I'd want to pay out more for 5G (when it finally becomes widespread).



Well, that’s probably unlikely considering they purchased the entire arm of intels mobile modem division so the whole thing will be in house.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 24, 2019)

pesh said:


> how can you be so sure? i'm genuinely interested by this... as i understand it 5G is a short range system requiring fucktonnes of transmitters to get coverage, if you've got areas that still aren't being covered by 3G and 4G why makes it so certain that 5G will finally get it right?



I can’t be totally sure but I’m hopeful it will be a better experience based on what I’ve read.


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## editor (Sep 24, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Well, that’s probably unlikely considering they purchased the entire arm of intels mobile modem division so the whole thing will be in house.


And when did that ever stop Apple hiking the prices up for every new feature?


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## cybershot (Sep 24, 2019)

editor said:


> And when did that ever stop Apple hiking the prices up for every new feature?



Since the iPhone 11 costs less than an XR did at launch?


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## editor (Sep 24, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Since the iPhone 11 costs less than an XR did at launch?


And in the past three years? Even Apple realised that they couldn't keep on asking people to keep paying more and more for tiny, incremental improvements that were barely keeping up with the rest of the industry. But if they think they can squeeze the fanboys for a bit more with the 5G hype, I'm sure they will.


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## pesh (Sep 24, 2019)

the 5G hype is dying on its arse now, if it ever really started, nobody's going to give a fuck about it this time next year.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 24, 2019)

pesh said:


> the 5G hype is dying on its arse now, if it ever really started, nobody's going to give a fuck about it this time next year.


To be honest I'm waiting for G pro.


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## pesh (Sep 24, 2019)

is that one of those insertable subwoofers for the earpods?


----------



## cybershot (Sep 26, 2019)

And so it begins....

Rumor: Apple Has Prototyped a 6.7-Inch iPhone Without a Notch, Face ID Housed in Upper Bezel Instead


----------



## Winot (Sep 27, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Worth checking the iCloud part of settings. A lot of apps will now sync settings and what not to iCloud so if you need to restore the app it will restore your settings and log in info. Don’t think I’ve physically backed up an iPhone to a device or iCloud for that matter since the 4s. I happily just set back to factory and restore my apps.
> 
> Although I’d stick with the physical backups until you’ve tried and/or trust another method.



Coming back to this, I tried backing up to iCloud but it seemed to be all or nothing i.e. you can't just back-up settings/passwords it has to include photos. And I've got too many for the free backup so would have needed to pay for storage.

However I stumped up for an 11 Pro which arrived this week and it restored directly from my 8 without having to go via iCloud or my Mac. A few banking apps needed to be restored but otherwise it was a very smooth transition.


----------



## B.I.G (Sep 27, 2019)

Winot said:


> Coming back to this, I tried backing up to iCloud but it seemed to be all or nothing i.e. you can't just back-up settings/passwords it has to include photos. And I've got too many for the free backup so would have needed to pay for storage.
> 
> However I stumped up for an 11 Pro which arrived this week and it restored directly from my 8 without having to go via iCloud or my Mac. A few banking apps needed to be restored but otherwise it was a very smooth transition.



There are buttons listing whether something is backed up to iCloud or not.


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## cybershot (Sep 27, 2019)

There’s a whole bunch of settings! 

 

And yes, I should mentioned last week when the gf got her 11. It was very cool. Literally just put them next to each other and it transfers everything without having to touch the internet.


----------



## Winot (Sep 29, 2019)

The portrait mode on the 11 Pro is quite something. This is a snap from yesterday with no post-processing.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 29, 2019)

Just upgraded to iOS 13.

Having to relearn my phone as many frequently used things have been moved around.
Having to re-grant access to Bluetooth, camera etc. etc. to lots of Apps. Pah!
I do like the changes to Safari though.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2019)

cybershot said:


> And so it begins....
> 
> Rumor: Apple Has Prototyped a 6.7-Inch iPhone Without a Notch, Face ID Housed in Upper Bezel Instead


"Rumor" = baseless clickbait shit for fanboys.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 29, 2019)

editor said:


> "Runor" = baseless clickbait shit for fanboys.


Apple are notoriously tight lipped so yeah *any* Apple gossip is generally pure speculation.


----------



## pesh (Sep 29, 2019)

The rumours about the latest iPhone for months ahead of time were that it was going to be a bit shit with a new fugly camera array and that you might as well wait for the next one, that all seems to have been pretty accurate.


----------



## alex_ (Sep 29, 2019)

pesh said:


> The rumours about the latest iPhone for months ahead of time were that it was going to be a bit shit with a new fugly camera array and that you might as well wait for the next one, that all seems to have been pretty accurate.



Even a stopped clock is right twice per day !


----------



## Gromit (Sep 29, 2019)

pesh said:


> The rumours about the latest iPhone for months ahead of time were that it was going to be a bit shit with a new fugly camera array and that you might as well wait for the next one, that all seems to have been pretty accurate.


Some people are good at speculation. It's still just speculation.


----------



## elbows (Oct 1, 2019)

Gromit said:


> Apple are notoriously tight lipped so yeah *any* Apple gossip is generally pure speculation.



For years the rumours in the months leading up to a launch have mostly turned out to be high quality leaks that spoilt all the surprises at launch events. This did not used to be the case, at the peak of Steve Jobs. But the leak-free reputation of Apple has been totally dead for years anyway.

When it comes to rumours much further out, like these ones, you are right.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 3, 2019)

Apple will launch smaller, cheaper iPhone that's just as powerful as iPhone 11 early next year, top analyst says



> The iPhone SE2 will reportedly use the iPhone 8 body but the same A13 processor that’s used in the iPhone 11.



I can see a lot of people going for this. People like my Mum, who has an SE already, who care not for high end performance - but still want an iphone because they're so locked into how to use them and probably wouldn't go for an alternative non-apple device.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 3, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apple will launch smaller, cheaper iPhone that's just as powerful as iPhone 11 early next year, top analyst says
> 
> 
> 
> I can see a lot of people going for this. People like my Mum, who has an SE already, who care not for high end performance - but still want an iphone because they're so locked into how to use them and probably wouldn't go for an alternative non-apple device.


In theory that would eventually be me, too. But the iPhone 8 seemed too big to me. So I’m not sure I’d be ready for that size leap when/if the time comes.  I’m also a fan of wired headphones. So if it’s those mad Bluetooth only ones I’m going to take some convincing.

My SE is still great, though. Best phone I’ve ever had. It works perfectly, does everything I need it to, and I see no reason to replace it.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 3, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> In theory that would eventually be me, too. But the iPhone 8 seemed too big to me. So I’m not sure I’d be ready for that size leap when/if the time comes.  I’m also a fan of wired headphones. So if it’s those mad Bluetooth only ones I’m going to take some convincing.
> 
> My SE is still great, though. Best phone I’ve ever had. It works perfectly, does everything I need it to, and I see no reason to replace it.



And thank fuck we are coming to that stage with phones. I keep thinking similar except the dam things seems have and unnerving habit of dying after a couple of years. Or I drop them in a mine.


----------



## Supine (Oct 3, 2019)

danny la rouge said:


> I’m also a fan of wired headphones. So if it’s those mad Bluetooth only ones I’m going to take some convincing



I've always been the same about headphones. Just got some posh sony wireless and I'm an absolute convert. They work perfectly with Bluetooth on my iPhone. I don't think I'd ever go back now.


----------



## T & P (Oct 7, 2019)

Just installed the latest IOS update and there are a few changes/ new features. The one I’m happiest about is how it displays volume adjustments. As anyone who’s changed the volume whilst watching videos (or playing games or a million other things I guess) will know, the volume change box that pops up when you adjust it is bang in the middle of the screen and blocks your view, which is fucking annoying.

But now the volume change box is displayed as a very slim sidebar on the edge of the screen, so minimal or zero more interference with whatever you’re watching


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 8, 2019)

T & P said:


> Just installed the latest IOS update and there are a few changes/ new features. The one I’m happiest about is how it displays volume adjustments. As anyone who’s changed the volume whilst watching videos (or playing games or a million other things I guess) will know, the volume change box that pops up when you adjust it is bang in the middle of the screen and blocks your view, which is fucking annoying.
> 
> But now the volume change box is displayed as a very slim sidebar on the edge of the screen, so minimal or zero more interference with whatever you’re watching



Definitely second this. Why it took them so long to fix is beyond me. One of the most annoying features of iOS has finally been fixed.

Despite my reservations about the 11 not having 5G, I may end up upgrading to this - mainly so I can give my niece my 7 Plus. I won't bother with the Pro though, I don't think the benefit is worth the cost. I will get 128Gb though rather than 64 Gb.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 8, 2019)

hmm, my Mum has also been dropping hint her 6 is on it's death bed. The battery capacity is down to 83% so I get where she's coming from. I don't really want her to spend £45 on a new battery though when I will most likely upgrade next year and she can have my X. I've told her to hold out for 12 months if she can, but it it gets really bad i'll find her a preowned 7 in decent nick to get her by.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 8, 2019)

cybershot said:


> hmm, my Mum has also been dropping hint her 6 is on it's death bed. The battery capacity is down to 83% so I get where she's coming from. I don't really want her to spend £45 on a new battery though when I will most likely upgrade next year and she can have my X. I've told her to hold out for 12 months if she can, but it it gets really bad i'll find her a preowned 7 in decent nick to get her by.



Can always get one of those battery cases for £20ish or less. I recently got one for my 7 and its been a lifesaver when travelling. I don't bother with external battery packs anymore because they're a faff.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 11, 2019)

My girlfriend often uses the breathe app on my apple watch when she's suffering an anxiety attack, so a week ago I thought I'd get her her own, and won a apple watch 2 for a really good price on ebay. Seller hasn't posted it, and or responded to any messages at all


----------



## cybershot (Oct 11, 2019)

File an eBay dispute. It’s annoying but you should get your money back. eBay nearly always sides with the buyer.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 11, 2019)

Yeah disputed and they paid my money back, but I have to wait 2 days for it.


----------



## Supine (Oct 11, 2019)

New iOS is a bit buggy. Wish I’d delayed installing it


----------



## cybershot (Oct 12, 2019)

Glad I’ve held off although my iPad is now starting to bug me to update to iPadOS.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 12, 2019)

Got the iPhone 11 yesterday with 128gb storage. Fairly pleased with it so far.

I probably would’ve held off until the next upgrade but my niece is over from Brazil and the poor girl is still using my old second hand 5S from 2014 which is almost dying so decided to gift her my 7plus.

I had a play with the 11 Pro and 11 Pro Max and watched a ton of YouTube review/comparison videos - but decided they were not worth the extra outlay. £779 over 24 months I can justify. But not a grand or more for a slightly more fancy camera and minor other improvements.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 12, 2019)

You sound as bad as me for any excuse for an upgrade! I’m surprised I’ve held off to be honest but I just know I’ll kick myself next year if I paid out now.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 12, 2019)

cybershot said:


> You sound as bad as me for any excuse for an upgrade! I’m surprised I’ve held off to be honest but I just know I’ll kick myself next year if I paid out now.



I almost went in for the upgrade program


----------



## T & P (Oct 13, 2019)

I’ve noticed another improvement since the update, and this one is a massive one and the end of a major pain in the arse for multilingual people.

I’m Spanish and naturally do compose a lot of emails, texts and WhatsApps in my native language. Even though I have long had the Spanish keyword installed, until this update it had never worked intuitively or with auto complete/correct. In fact auto correct was really annoying as it kept trying to change most Spanish words into English (though I could have always disabled it of course).

But now my phone instantly recognises Spanish words and not only does no longer try to correct words to English, but the Spanish auto complete/ correct woks a treat. In a language like Spanish with accents and special letters and characters, auto complete it is really fucking useful!

It will still not recognise ‘fucking’ though


----------



## sim667 (Oct 14, 2019)

T & P said:


> I’ve noticed another improvement since the update, and this one is a massive one and the end of a major pain in the arse for multilingual people.
> 
> I’m Spanish and naturally do compose a lot of emails, texts and WhatsApps in my native language. Even though I have long had the Spanish keyword installed, until this update it had never worked intuitively or with auto complete/correct. In fact auto correct was really annoying as it kept trying to change most Spanish words into English (though I could have always disabled it of course).
> 
> ...



I had the google swipe keyboard in, but it always used to play silly buggers and take ages to load, but now there's an apple swipe keybaord I've just reverted back and its made a massive difference.

I do keep finding I have to reload apps though to get them to load, espeically ones that need a thumb print to log in.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 15, 2019)

iPhone SE 2 Launching in Q1 2020 At $399 Price: Report


----------



## sim667 (Oct 17, 2019)

Well we got the money back, and my partner still wanted an apple watch, we decided to go for a series 1 because they were within her £80 budget and she really wanted the rose gold one so we bid on one and it turned up today.

Its in perfect nick, I doubt its been worn much at all, if not just left sitting with no charge in it, flip it over, and realised they'd misadvertised it and its a series 2...... So got some good karma after faffing with that first watch


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 17, 2019)

cybershot said:


> iPhone SE 2 Launching in Q1 2020 At $399 Price: Report



Its a good move to keep hold of a large percentage of their market - particularly older people - who care very little about most of the bells and whistles of the higher spec iphones.


----------



## Detroit City (Oct 17, 2019)

I have an iPhone 8+ which I bought 2 years ago.  I love it and it is almost paid off.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 18, 2019)

Apple Confirms iPhone Advantage Over Android


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apple Confirms iPhone Advantage Over Android


And this is news and interesting, why?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 18, 2019)

editor said:


> And this is news and interesting, why?



It’s a piece regarding iPhones on an iPhone thread which I thought may interest people who are into Apple/iPhone discussion. Is this not ok to be posting?


----------



## editor (Oct 18, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> It’s a piece regarding iPhones on an iPhone thread which I thought may interest people who are into Apple/iPhone discussion. Is this not ok to be posting?


Come on. You've been here long enough to know that you're expected to at least add one line explaining what the link is about or - even better - express an opinion.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 20, 2019)

Don’t know legit this is as haven’t used google photos for a while.

iPhone Has Free Unlimited Original Quality Storage on Google Photos -- Pixel 4 Doesn't


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 20, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Don’t know legit this is as haven’t used google photos for a while.
> 
> iPhone Has Free Unlimited Original Quality Storage on Google Photos -- Pixel 4 Doesn't



I use Google photos for all my backup and wasn’t aware of this. Nice.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 21, 2019)

Booo

google to fix iPhone free ride


----------



## cybershot (Oct 27, 2019)

Apparently AirPod pros are going to drop before Christmas. They look hideous!

AirPods Pro to Feature New Colors, Including Black and Midnight Green, According to Chinese Report


----------



## cybershot (Oct 28, 2019)

Ok so the inverted base makes them look a little better than what was posted above. But at a whopping £249 (£100 more) for added noise cancellation which has 3 different settings.  Other than that no other bonuses. Same battery life as the gen 2 standards and same total charge via the case. 

An upgrade only for those that need to stand out from the crowd. Otherwise I’d say wait for the version 2s of these. 

Buy AirPods Pro


----------



## cybershot (Oct 28, 2019)

iOS 13.2 also sees deep fusion go live for the cameras on the latest iPhones. 

Deep Fusion Demo: Trying Out Apple's Computational Photography Tech


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 29, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Apparently AirPod pros are going to drop before Christmas. They look hideous!
> 
> AirPods Pro to Feature New Colors, Including Black and Midnight Green, According to Chinese Report
> 
> View attachment 188318



I'm a big fan of regular airpods, but I'm not sure about these. I don't like silicone (or rubber) tipped ends on any ear buds. One of the main things I love about the airpods is they have the same hard plastic all over. I find the rubber tipped ends while they block out external noise better, they also amplify your own internal goings on (breathing, chewing, swallowing etc) which I find disconcerting and annoying, plus I like to have a bit of spacial awareness when I'm walking or on the train, for safety sake above all else.

I'll demo them anyway in the Apple Store in case I'm wrong. But I think I'm going to prefer over ears for noise cancellation.


----------



## Crispy (Oct 29, 2019)

You need a seal around the ear for noise conacellation to work, which is why these have silicone tips.


skyscraper101 said:


> I like to have a bit of spacial awareness when I'm walking or on the train, for safety sake above all else.


This is what the "pass-through" setting is for. You'll hear the surroundings, but actually relayed through the microphones in the buds.

Still, £250 for earbuds? Fuck right off


----------



## editor (Oct 29, 2019)

Crispy said:


> You need a seal around the ear for noise conacellation to work, which is why these have silicone tips.
> 
> This is what the "pass-through" setting is for. You'll hear the surroundings, but actually relayed through the microphones in the buds.
> 
> Still, £250 for earbuds? Fuck right off


Yeah, but_ Apple_.


----------



## Marty1 (Oct 29, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Apparently AirPod pros are going to drop before Christmas. They look hideous!
> 
> AirPods Pro to Feature New Colors, Including Black and Midnight Green, According to Chinese Report
> 
> View attachment 188318



Not good that the headline of the article focuses on the different colour novelty factor.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 29, 2019)

Marty1 said:


> Not good that the headline of the article focuses on the different colour novelty factor.



that didn’t materialise anyway. White only.


----------



## T & P (Nov 4, 2019)

Wow. For the last 3-4 weeks I’ve been manually setting an alarm at 23.59 between Sunday and Wednesday to remind me to book tennis courts in advance the second they became available at exactly midnight, as there is over demand for bookings.

I had completely forgotten to set an alarm this evening and the phone has just asked me if I would like to do so. 

Not exactly cutting edge AI stuff of course, but it’s still a very useful feature and the first  time a device proactively does something like that


----------



## Mr Retro (Nov 9, 2019)

Got an iPhone11 up from an iphone7 today. It’s a brilliant phone and a noticeable upgrade after 4 years or so but I’m glad I won’t be looking at the back of the fucker too often.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 12, 2019)

I just ordered an iPhone 11 Pro Max Super Smashing Great (it's my birthday soon) which I will be picking up a bit later on, so I will be able to test out this magic camera. Tbh the one on my 6S+ feels pretty poor quality these days. That's the only thing wrong with it though - as I keep saying, cameras are pretty much the only reason to upgrade these days, with all the other tech having peaked, though the big screen and improved battery will be nice.


----------



## Detroit City (Nov 12, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I just ordered an iPhone 11 Pro Max Super Smashing Great (it's my birthday soon) which I will be picking up a bit later on, so I will be able to test out this magic camera. Tbh the one on my 6S+ feels pretty poor quality these days. That's the only thing wrong with it though - as I keep saying, cameras are pretty much the only reason to upgrade these days, with all the other tech having peaked, though the big screen and improved battery will be nice.


my little brother just got this phone a few months ago.  he loves it and the camera take incredible pictures.  you'll love it too


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 12, 2019)

The camera on the Pro is amazing, it's even very good on the 11, great low light shots, and portrait and wide angle modes on the front and back are outstanding. The most noticeable thing for me, is the speed, especially for Face ID it's almost instant.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 12, 2019)

Literally picked it up about ten minutes ago and am now setting it up! Apple makes it really easy to, er, spend large amounts of money with them. App to shop was about an hour.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 12, 2019)

This is like living in the future. A feeling that will maybe last 24 hours before it becomes the norm again.



skyscraper101 said:


> The most noticeable thing for me, is the speed, especially for Face ID it's almost instant.



Yeah that is very impressive - I can barely notice when it's authorising me. I was expecting at least to have to look at the camera and line my face up in a box or something, but it's just like it knows who I am all the time.


----------



## cybershot (Nov 12, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Literally picked it up about ten minutes ago and am now setting it up! Apple makes it really easy to, er, spend large amounts of money with them. App to shop was about an hour.



Did you do the super easy 'oh put you're current iPhone next to me and I'll transfer all your data that way' witchcraft.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 12, 2019)

cybershot said:


> Did you do the super easy 'oh put you're current iPhone next to me and I'll transfer all your data that way' witchcraft.


Yup. I guess that's NFC? Or maybe they just sense each other's Apple glow. It's really pretty impressive but where the hell is my home button dammit.


----------



## Detroit City (Nov 12, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's really pretty impressive but where the hell is my home button dammit.


it's in the rubbish


----------



## cybershot (Nov 12, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yup. I guess that's NFC? Or maybe they just sense each other's Apple glow. It's really pretty impressive but where the hell is my home button dammit.



You'll get used it very quickly and will become second nature. It's when you pick one up that does have a home button that you then get all flustered as you very quickly suddenly forget how to use the home button.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 13, 2019)

Yeah, this stuff is not a big deal really. What I do think is a step backwards is having to swipe down from the top right to get the control panel - I used to use it a _lot_ swiping up from the bottom to get to the camera, because I could do it and hit the icon with just my right thumb from a normal hold position. Now I have to change grip or use both hands. If you're going to make such a big deal about the camera maybe make it easier to access from anywhere? But I expect it won't matter much in practice.


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2019)

Well, this is nice 

The Facebook app is secretly accessing people's camera as they read the news feed


----------



## cybershot (Nov 13, 2019)

Why never to use the app. Use the browser version.


----------



## pesh (Nov 14, 2019)

Meanwhile at google
WSJ News Exclusive | Google’s ‘Project Nightingale’ Gathers Personal Health Data on Millions of Americans
Get a chromebook, get a chromebook etc


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2019)

pesh said:


> Meanwhile at google
> WSJ News Exclusive | Google’s ‘Project Nightingale’ Gathers Personal Health Data on Millions of Americans
> Get a chromebook, get a chromebook etc


Good advice. But how is this related to a Chromebook, exactly?


----------



## pesh (Nov 14, 2019)

Google make them, they're an unsavoury company.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2019)

pesh said:


> Google make them, they're an unsavoury company.


Right, gotcha. And Apple are just splendid.


----------



## pesh (Nov 14, 2019)

Where did i say that?


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2019)

pesh said:


> Where did i say that?


So are you just going to randomly list 'unsavoury' corporations? You'll have a lot to go through.


----------



## pesh (Nov 14, 2019)

Do you agree that Google are fucking terrible?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 14, 2019)

Oi, get your google off my "I've got a fancy new phone" thread 

Further observations:

- Minecraft runs really well on it.
- The battery seems to be lasting longer than I expect on average.
- the superwide camera really is super wide and probably mostly useful for GoPro-style video, but could be handy for some crowd shots at protests where I am about six inches away from everyone. I would like something like the Panasonic 7-14mm there but that's also money.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2019)

pesh said:


> Do you agree that Google are fucking terrible?


They're about equally as terrible as Apple and the rest of the big technology giants, but at least Chromebooks/Android bring true affordable computing to the masses and they provide class-leading services (Maps/GMail/Docs etc) for free, rather than forcing people to pay a fat profit-scooping premium for Apple's over-priced elitist goods and services.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 14, 2019)

editor said:


> They're about equally as terrible as Apple and the rest of the big technology giants, but at least Chromebooks/Android bring true affordable computing to the masses and they provide class-leading services (Maps/GMail/Docs etc) for free, rather than forcing people to pay a fat profit-scooping premium for Apple's over-priced elitist goods and services.


Being free of course, because of all the data about you Google flog to advertising companies...


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Being free of course, because of all the data about you Google flog to advertising companies...


It's quite possible to use a lot of their services without handing over personal data. Apple have never provided me with any free service, ever, and what ones they offer are usually worse than Google's despite their obscene profits and wealth. And then there's that utterly shameful record on giving back fuck all for years. So are Google cunts? Yes. Are Apple cunts? Most certainly too. They're the greediest cunts in the world.


----------



## Supine (Nov 14, 2019)

Boring! Back to apple pls.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2019)

Supine said:


> Boring! Back to apple pls.









PS It wasn't me that brought up Google here.


----------



## Supine (Nov 14, 2019)

editor said:


> PS It wasn't me that brought up Google here.



I know, it was some other cox


----------



## pesh (Nov 14, 2019)




----------



## Winot (Nov 16, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Yeah, this stuff is not a big deal really. What I do think is a step backwards is having to swipe down from the top right to get the control panel - I used to use it a _lot_ swiping up from the bottom to get to the camera, because I could do it and hit the icon with just my right thumb from a normal hold position. Now I have to change grip or use both hands. If you're going to make such a big deal about the camera maybe make it easier to access from anywhere? But I expect it won't matter much in practice.



Swipe left from lock screen to open camera. No need to go via control panel.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 16, 2019)

Winot said:


> Swipe left from lock screen to open camera. No need to go via control panel.


I'm not normally on the lock screen when I have my phone out, though. (I did see there was a camera button on it now - don't remember that being on the 6S.)

I'm just going to put the camera app on the bottom row of my home screen so that I can hit it with my thumb easily. One swipe and a tap from anywhere.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 22, 2019)

So I've been using the camera a bit, including today when I was at a protest, and I think

1. The triple lenses are definitely handy, mostly the normal vs tele ones (the super wide is so wide it's not much use unless you are literally in the middle of a crowd, but that does happen sometimes). In the past I have often wished that I had more of a zoom and digital zoom/cropping on phones does not give nice results.

2. It's still a phone camera though. It may be a good phone camera but it will always be limited by the sensor size; it's obvious that these are pics I took on my phone. I've always been sceptical of - or just outright sarcastic about - the "who needs a dedicated camera phones can do it all now" crowd and I see nothing to challenge that here. I'm not knocking phone photography but anyone buying this specifically for the camera(s) should realise that for a couple of hundred quid they could get a pocket sized camera that has a real zoom (or interchangeable lenses) and takes wayyyy better pictures, and that the image quality from the new phone is not going to be sock-blowing-offly better compared to their old phone.


----------



## Marty1 (Nov 22, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> So I've been using the camera a bit, including today when I was at a protest, and I think
> 
> 1. The triple lenses are definitely handy, mostly the normal vs tele ones (the super wide is so wide it's not much use unless you are literally in the middle of a crowd, but that does happen sometimes). In the past I have often wished that I had more of a zoom and digital zoom/cropping on phones does not give nice results.
> 
> 2. It's still a phone camera though. It may be a good phone camera but it will always be limited by the sensor size; it's obvious that these are pics I took on my phone. I've always been sceptical of - or just outright sarcastic about - the "who needs a dedicated camera phones can do it all now" crowd and I see nothing to challenge that here. I'm not knocking phone photography but anyone buying this specifically for the camera(s) should realise that for a couple of hundred quid they could get a pocket sized camera that has a real zoom (or interchangeable lenses) and takes wayyyy better pictures, and that the image quality from the new phone is not going to be sock-blowing-offly better compared to their old phone.



What colour did you choose tho?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 22, 2019)

Marty1 said:


> What colour did you choose tho?


Space grey, it's always in stock. I don't really care though because I always put a case on them.


----------



## Marty1 (Nov 22, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Space grey, it's always in stock. I don't really care though because I always put a case on them.



My girlfriend bought my iPhone (Xs Max) for me as a gift, which was very nice of her but she chose the gold colour and got me a transparent back case which is a bit girly for my liking.  Shouldn’t really complain tho.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 22, 2019)

Marty1 said:


> My girlfriend bought my iPhone (Xs Max) for me as a gift, which was very nice of her but she chose the gold colour and got me a transparent back case which is a bit girly for my liking.  Shouldn’t really complain tho.


My last phone, which I got on insurance, was "rose gold" which is shiny pink and I thought it was awesome. I actually wanted a transparent case for it but could only find black ones because it was such an old model.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Nov 24, 2019)

Marty1 said:


> My girlfriend bought my iPhone (Xs Max) for me as a gift, which was very nice of her but she chose the gold colour and got me a transparent back case which is a bit girly for my liking.  Shouldn’t really complain tho.



You should put stickers on it.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 28, 2019)

Get this

*Apple planning to release biggest iPhone ever in 2020: report*



> Apple’s 2020 lineup will top out with an iPhone whose screen measures 6.7 inches diagonally, according to Korean news site ETNews. *That’s only about an inch less than the display of Apple’s iPad Mini*, which measures 7.9 inches. The iPhone 11 Pro Max, for comparison, has a 6.5-inch display.
> 
> On the smaller end of the spectrum, the report said Apple will put out a 5.4-inch iPhone next year as well, which is smaller than the smaller iPhone 11 Pro’s 5.8-inch OLED display.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 23, 2019)

Apparently Apple are working on satellite tech to bypass the networks and provide a direct data service to their devices.

Apple Has Secret Team Working on Satellites to Beam Data to Devices


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 23, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apparently Apple are working on satellite tech to bypass the networks and provide a direct data service to their devices.
> 
> Apple Has Secret Team Working on Satellites to Beam Data to Devices



Seems unlikely unless they are planning on working with Space X or similar. They aren't going to build their own saterlite network.


----------



## mauvais (Dec 23, 2019)

My missus has got a 6S (16GB). In theory she's had it ages but the specific phone she has is a warranty replacement after the battery failed.

She needs a new one. I'm not big on the specifics of Apple stuff despite being a mobile dev, but I've tentatively recommended the XS 64GB at I think £629. It's out of production but you can still buy it. Her criteria are basically a decent upgrade from her current one (obviously) and to last about as long as that - maybe three years.

Any thoughts?


----------



## Supine (Dec 23, 2019)

mauvais said:


> My missus has got a 6S (16GB). In theory she's had it ages but the specific phone she has is a warranty replacement after the battery failed.
> 
> She needs a new one. I'm not big on the specifics of Apple stuff despite being a mobile dev, but I've tentatively recommended the XS 64GB at I think £629. It's out of production but you can still buy it. Her criteria are basically a decent upgrade from her current one (obviously) and to last about as long as that - maybe three years.
> 
> Any thoughts?



Get her agreement if it's a move away from iOS!


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Dec 23, 2019)

mauvais said:


> Any thoughts?


Wrap the XS in nice paper and leave it under the tree on Wednesday.

I’m really happy with my 8, it was an upgrade from the 5S and it looks like £407 with trade-In in the UK. I’m quite happy to be a few models behind and you still get the incremental improvements. The 8 has the Touch ID, I’m no sure I’d want to grimace at the phone to log into the bank


----------



## mauvais (Dec 23, 2019)

Heh, no chance of it being this Christmas.

I think trade-in of a 6S is about £40 which seems low enough to just hold onto the thing as a spare. Not very good - I got a lot more for upgrading my Samsung.

No chance of moving to Android either, locked in now.


----------



## alex_ (Dec 23, 2019)

mauvais said:


> My missus has got a 6S (16GB). In theory she's had it ages but the specific phone she has is a warranty replacement after the battery failed.
> 
> She needs a new one. I'm not big on the specifics of Apple stuff despite being a mobile dev, but I've tentatively recommended the XS 64GB at I think £629. It's out of production but you can still buy it. Her criteria are basically a decent upgrade from her current one (obviously) and to last about as long as that - maybe three years.
> 
> Any thoughts?



The 11 isn’t that much more expensive than that.

Alex


----------



## mauvais (Dec 23, 2019)

alex_ said:


> The 11 isn’t that much more expensive than that.
> 
> Alex


It's another £100 and the screen doesn't seem to be as good. Better battery. Is it worth it?


----------



## alex_ (Dec 23, 2019)

mauvais said:


> It's another £100 and the screen doesn't seem to be as good. Better battery. Is it worth it?



the Xr battery is significantly better than the xs mainly because the screen isn’t so good.

not sure about the 11


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 29, 2019)

mauvais said:


> It's another £100 and the screen doesn't seem to be as good. Better battery. Is it worth it?



I’d  go with the 10s if the screen is a thing, but the 11 does have better battery and a nicer camera.


.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Jan 4, 2020)

How do I get rid of this shitty bar?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 4, 2020)

Press the “App” button next to the Message entry box to switch back to suggestions.


----------



## editor (Jan 4, 2020)

In case anyone is wondering what's going on,  'Night Mode' doesn’t actually work with the iPhone’s telephoto lens...









						iPhone 11 Pro’s Night Mode Isn’t What You Might Think
					

After PetaPixel shared a story I shot with the new iPhone in Russia’s Arctic North, the response was enormous. One email that I received pointed out a




					petapixel.com


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 10, 2020)

FridgeMagnet said:


> So I've been using the camera a bit, including today when I was at a protest, and I think
> 
> 1. The triple lenses are definitely handy, mostly the normal vs tele ones (the super wide is so wide it's not much use unless you are literally in the middle of a crowd, but that does happen sometimes). In the past I have often wished that I had more of a zoom and digital zoom/cropping on phones does not give nice results.
> 
> 2. It's still a phone camera though. It may be a good phone camera but it will always be limited by the sensor size; it's obvious that these are pics I took on my phone. I've always been sceptical of - or just outright sarcastic about - the "who needs a dedicated camera phones can do it all now" crowd and I see nothing to challenge that here. I'm not knocking phone photography but anyone buying this specifically for the camera(s) should realise that for a couple of hundred quid they could get a pocket sized camera that has a real zoom (or interchangeable lenses) and takes wayyyy better pictures, and that the image quality from the new phone is not going to be sock-blowing-offly better compared to their old phone.


The phone camera is annoying me now because of its weird colour response in anything but the most perfect light. I've just spent a good half hour with some XR pics I took this afternoon trying to fix saturation, white balance, any slider I can use tbh, and I'm one step away from just whacking a B&W filter on all of them because several are just not fixable it seems.

Granted that (a) I am probably more sensitive to colour issues than a lot of customers, having spent ages dicking around with tiny aspects of white balance over years, and (b) it isn't just this phone, it's pretty much any phone, but even so, they shouldn't look _fluorescent_.

I worry that this has now warped the colour perception of most internet viewers who will now think the colour I reckon is accurate is weird and flat.

eta: to be fair when I look at the final edits on my phone they seem better. Perhaps a MacBook Pro screen is not the best medium to edit phone pics with.


----------



## little_legs (Feb 13, 2020)

Could any of you good folk help to a pea brain.

I have got an iPhone 6s, he's been very good to me and served well to his mom. But last year his battery started to get drained so fast to the point where I'd take him outside fully charged, and after checking the weather app and browsing on the net, the battery would go to 26%. WHAT THE FUCK!

I rely on the phone a lot when I travel for Google Maps, and because the battery wouldn't last, it stressed the fuck out of me on my last trip.

I've now learned that you can replace the battery. Will replacing the battery make the battery last longer? Is it just the chemicals in the battery that gave up and ready to die?

I really don't want to buy a new phone. Please help.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 13, 2020)

1 - Go to an Apple store
2 - Ask for a new battery
3 - Hand over money
4 - Problem solved


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Feb 13, 2020)

Yeah. £49 for a 6S apparently. You can also post it in. Make sure it's backed up first.






						iPhone Battery Repair & Replacement – Apple Support (UK)
					

Need more power? An Apple Store or Authorised Service Provider near you can replace your iPhone battery. See the associated cost by cover type.



					support.apple.com


----------



## Lazy Llama (Feb 13, 2020)

little_legs said:


> I really don't want to buy a new phone. Please help.


Put your serial number into this page - iPhone 6s Program for Unexpected Shutdown Issues - Apple Support

You might be entitled to a free battery replacement. If not, Apple charge 50 quid or every high street phone fixer can do it for less. 
it will almost certainly fix the problem. Batteries last about 3 years, depending on use/charging patterns.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 13, 2020)

If there's an Apple Store nearby they will do it in 2 hours. We did the OHs 6S a few months back before she then decided to upgrade anyway.


----------



## little_legs (Feb 13, 2020)

Thank you very much, good peeps beesonthewhatnow , Lazy Llama  , FridgeMagnet , cybershot


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 13, 2020)

cybershot said:


> If there's an Apple Store nearby they will do it in 2 hours. We did the OHs 6S a few months back before she then decided to upgrade anyway.



Did it massively improve the performance as well as the battery life? Worth the £50?

After they were outed for slowing down phones when the battery gets old, I'm interested to know first hand how much effect a new battery has. I might do it for the OH to give her iPhone 6 Plus a few more months of life.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 13, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Did it massively improve the performance as well as the battery life? Worth the £50?
> 
> After they were outed for slowing down phones when the battery gets old, I'm interested to know first hand how much effect a new battery has. I might do it for the OH to give her iPhone 6 Plus a few more months of life.


Totally worth it.

Phone basically becomes as fast and lasts as long battery wise as it did on day 0. Think we've discussed in detail on here previously about the hows and whys they do this, and that if you're happy with the phone it's probably worth just doing the battery replacement rather than splashing out loads on a new phone.

iOS has a built in performance thing now, her's was at 86% of it's original capacity which Apple will say is still good enough, but it was annoying her enough to get the battery swapped. iOS 13 also has a new feature in that it will learn your charging patterns and only charge to 80%, and then do the final 20% before it thinks youre likely to take it off the charger, which again should help prolong battery. I generally try to keep mine always charged between 40% and 80% which has done me well with my X. Still at 98% capacity and fast as it gets on to it's 3rd birthday in September.

Apple will probably say it don't need doing, but equally the call is yours as to if you want to go ahead and get it done. Which is probably why it's better to do it person at a store in two hours rather than having the back and forth email conversation after posting it off and waiting days.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 13, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Totally worth it.
> 
> Phone basically becomes as fast and lasts as long battery wise as it did on day 0. Think we've discussed in detail on here previously about the hows and whys they do this, and that if you're happy with the phone it's probably worth just doing the battery replacement rather than splahing out loads on a new phone.
> 
> iOS has a built in performance thing now, her's was at 86% of it's original capacity which Apple will say is still good enough, but it was annoying her enough to get the battery swapped. Apple will say it don't need doing, but equally the call is yours as to if you want to go ahead and get it done. Which is probably why it's better to do it person at a store in two hours rather than having the back and forth email conversation after posting it off and waiting days.



I think I'll do it then. Do you need to back everything up to iCloud before?


----------



## cybershot (Feb 13, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> I think I'll do it then. Do you need to back everything up to iCloud before?


They will recommend it, but again, won't force you too, you'll get all the T&Cs before you do it, and that it's totally at your risk, if they break the phone, they will give you a replacement of the same model. Which makes it toally worth doing at an actual Apple store for that peace of mind. You'll need to turn find my iphone off, which can obviously be done before you hand it over.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Feb 26, 2020)

My trusty 6sPlus is fucking eating itself trying to download 13.3.1 
Stripped all the apps and it’s still not having it. I’m out of contract so looking to upgrade to an 11 pro max. Not sure wether it’s worth getting a contract or just buying one straight 
I’ve been on an unlimited data contract but they are saying in the last six months my data usage maxed out at no more than 5 GB a month so I don’t need to pay full tilt for unlimited data 

more than happy to keep my old phone why do they ducking do this to Apple punters


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 26, 2020)

bellaozzydog said:


> My trusty 6sPlus is fucking eating itself trying to download 13.3.1
> Stripped all the apps and it’s still not having it. I’m out of contract so looking to upgrade to an 11 pro max. Not sure wether it’s worth getting a contract or just buying one straight
> I’ve been on an unlimited data contract but they are saying in the last six months my data usage maxed out at no more than 5 GB a month so I don’t need to pay full tilt for unlimited data
> 
> more than happy to keep my old phone why do they ducking do this to Apple punters


Strange, I've just checked and my 6s seems to have installed it fine. I have everything set to auto, I don't even notice it doing the updates anymore.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Feb 27, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Strange, I've just checked and my 6s seems to have installed it fine. I have everything set to auto, I don't even notice it doing the updates anymore.


Arrrrrrrrrgh kill me now


----------



## pinkychukkles (Feb 27, 2020)

Still rollin' with a 6+ here! 👍 so no iOS 13 for me 😔


----------



## Yossarian (Feb 27, 2020)

"Apple, they let you use iPhones in movies, but, and this is very pivotal, if you’re ever watching a mystery movie, bad guys cannot have iPhones on camera."









						Apple won't let bad guys use iPhones in movies, 'Knives Out' director Rian Johnson says
					

Rian Johnson, the writer and director of "Knives Out," revealed that Apple will permit film productions to use its products onscreen, but with one very big caveat: Villains can't have an iPhone on camera.




					www.cnbc.com


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 27, 2020)

Yossarian said:


> "Apple, they let you use iPhones in movies, but, and this is very pivotal, if you’re ever watching a mystery movie, bad guys cannot have iPhones on camera."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How exactly do Apple get to dictate who gets to use its products in movies? Surely that's not enforceable at any legal level.


----------



## bellaozzydog (Feb 27, 2020)

Bit the bullet,  bought one sim free..... that hurt the bank managers feelings


----------



## pinkychukkles (Feb 27, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> How exactly do Apple get to dictate who gets to use its products in movies? Surely that's not enforceable at any legal level.


I was confused a little by that when I first read a similar article but I believe it only applies when Apple has paid for the product placement.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 27, 2020)

pinkychukkles said:


> I was confused a little by that when I first read a similar article but I believe it only applies when Apple has paid for the product placement.



Oh that puts a different angle on it then. Still seems a bit overly dictatorial to me but anyway.


----------



## belboid (Feb 27, 2020)

The problem is Apple ( and any other company) can then make it a complete pain in the arse if you haven't sought approval. Cease and desist letters, threats of lawsuits. Small indies could probably get away with it, but all the major studio's have agreements with them (and Coke, Ford etc etc) about how their products will be used. 

There's a bit more detail in the Guardian piece - Apple does not 'let bad guys use iPhones on screen'


----------



## DexterTCN (Feb 28, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> How exactly do Apple get to dictate who gets to use its products in movies? Surely that's not enforceable at any legal level.


It means they allow use and probably don't charge.  Lots of companies do it.  The US military does it...you can use our stuff but we're the good guys.

So it must go for laptops and pcs too...gonna start watching for that in everything now.  Whoever _doesn't_ have a 'named' product...that's the baddie.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 29, 2020)

DexterTCN said:


> It means they allow use and probably don't charge.  Lots of companies do it.  The US military does it...you can use our stuff but we're the good guys.
> 
> So it must go for laptops and pcs too...gonna start watching for that in everything now.  Whoever _doesn't_ have a 'named' product...that's the baddie.



I’m not sure about this. If I feature a product in a movie, that company doesn’t get to dictate the terms of its use unless they have specifically supplied it for inclusion based on some agreed policy. Either that or they’d have to prove convincingly that such use accounted to defamation. You reckon every movie featuring the US military shows all those men and women in uniform as the good guys?


----------



## cybershot (Apr 15, 2020)

Everything you need to know about the new iPhone SE
					

A new iPhone has just been revealed. If it seems familiar, it’s because the name first appeared on an iPhone four years ago, and the design is highly reminiscent of the iPhone 8. Here’s the skinny on the new phone




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## platinumsage (Apr 15, 2020)

I think I’ll wait for the 12.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 16, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Everything you need to know about the new iPhone SE
> 
> 
> A new iPhone has just been revealed. If it seems familiar, it’s because the name first appeared on an iPhone four years ago, and the design is highly reminiscent of the iPhone 8. Here’s the skinny on the new phone
> ...


Finally, a reason to upgrade from my 6S.

Still got Touch ID, the latest processor, much better camera, cheap (relatively). Perfect.


----------



## platinumsage (Apr 16, 2020)

It looks like being a great phone for the price. 

More here on why it's likely to trounce the android competition: The new iPhone SE is a shockingly good value


----------



## cybershot (Apr 16, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> It looks like being a great phone for the price.
> 
> More here on why it's likely to trounce the android competition: The new iPhone SE is a shockingly good value



I like they say 'a phone that will last for years' I've been harping on about Android's poor device longevity, for, well, years. Repeatedly being told that one of the main reasons I got rid of Android was being fixed over the years. Still hasn't happened. If my iPhone X was a flagship Google pixel 2 device released at the same time, come October it will get it's final patch. The damn thing cost £629 at launch!





__





						Learn when you'll get software updates on Google Pixel phones - Nexus Help
					

Below are software update guarantees for Pixel phones. If you have another Android device, contact your manufacturer or operator for update info. If you have a Nexus device,



					support.google.com


----------



## platinumsage (Apr 16, 2020)

Exactly and it’s the main reason I ditched android. It seems reasonable to expect that the iPhone 12 I will buy later this year will last for five years. Paying a grand for a phone that ends up costing 15 quid a month doesn’t seem so bad, especially when it’s also the only camera I’ll bother carrying with me to most places, not to mention all the other uses such as mapping. Compared to what PCs used to cost it’s reasonable, and they certainly didn’t used to last five years.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 16, 2020)

cybershot said:


> I like they say 'a phone that will last for years' I've been harping on about Android's poor device longevity, for, well, years. Repeatedly being told that one of the main reasons I got rid of Android was being fixed over the years. Still hasn't happened. If my iPhone X was a flagship Google pixel 2 device released at the same time, come October it will get it's final patch. The damn thing cost £629 at launch!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


My 6s - that came out in 2015 - runs the latest iOS quite happily. Can’t fault that


----------



## cybershot (Apr 16, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> My 6s - that came out in 2015 - runs the latest iOS quite happily. Can’t fault that



My Mum has my old iPhone 6, so at £539 + a £40 battery swap which made it as fast as day 0 again, it does everything my Mum needs. So assuming it gets to it's 6th birthday because I will probably upgrade to the 12 and she'll get my X, that works out at £8.42 a month for it's usefulness. And while its processor can't support iOS 13, it still gets iOS 12 patches, last one was released last month according to Wikipedia, so while you might not get the latest iOS on a device from 2014, you're still being looked after from a security stand point. I doubt any Android phone from 2014 has received an update for years, unless you root and piss about with it yourself. Ain't nobody got time for that.











						iPhone 6 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Orang Utan (May 10, 2020)

I have a 2nd hand iPhone SE with a very short battery life, so it's charging a lot. It keeps giving me little tickles of electric shock sometimes if my arm brushes against it. Could it get worse and kill me?


----------



## belboid (May 10, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> I have a 2nd hand iPhone SE with a very short battery life, so it's charging a lot. It keeps giving me little tickles of electric shock sometimes if my arm brushes against it. Could it get worse and kill me?


Sorry mate, but it's just given you coronavirus


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 10, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> I have a 2nd hand iPhone SE with a very short battery life, so it's charging a lot. It keeps giving me little tickles of electric shock sometimes if my arm brushes against it. Could it get worse and kill me?


Does this only happen when it's charging?
Did you buy a snide charger off ebay?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 10, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Does this only happen when it's charging?
> Did you buy a snide charger off ebay?


aye. got a handmedown from a richer friend and the charger came with the phone, so dunno to the second q. It also does it with a second charger I got off Amazon


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 10, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> aye. got a handmedown from a richer friend and the charger came with the phone, so dunno to the second q. It also does it with a second charger I got off Amazon


Try it with a real charger. I wouldn't trust a snide Chinese one on a phone with a metal frame.


----------



## editor (May 10, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> I have a 2nd hand iPhone SE with a very short battery life, so it's charging a lot. It keeps giving me little tickles of electric shock sometimes if my arm brushes against it. Could it get worse and kill me?


Dump it pronto as there's clearly something wrong with it and - worst case - you don't want to risk the thing catching fire or exploding into a Steve Jobs Supernova.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 10, 2020)

editor said:


> Dump it pronto as there's clearly something wrong with it and - worst case - you don't want to risk the thing catching fire or exploding into a Steve Jobs Supernova.


I need to buy a new one anyway, and not an iphone either. Best check out the Android recommendation threads, though probs best getting a 2nd hand refurbished one


----------



## editor (May 10, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> I need to buy a new one anyway, and not an iphone either. Best check out the Android recommendation threads, though probs best getting a 2nd hand refurbished one


If you can possibly stretch to a Huawei P30 you'll love it - if you're trying to justify the cost think of its buying a great camera too!


----------



## Orang Utan (May 10, 2020)

editor said:


> If you can possibly stretch to a Huawei P30 you'll love it - if you're trying to justify the cost think of its buying a great camera too!


which one? they seem to range between 200 and 500 squid


----------



## bmd (May 12, 2020)

The start of this thread is ace.

I've got a P30 Pro. The zoom on the camera has to be seen to be believed. I'll see if I can find a decent example. Amazing camera and I had the Note 9 before this.


----------



## bmd (May 12, 2020)

This is taken from the centre of Lendal Bridge in York, to those people who were about 100 yards away. You can zoom in some more.


----------



## platinumsage (May 12, 2020)

bmd said:


> The start of this thread is ace.



its a blast from the past for sure.


----------



## bmd (May 12, 2020)

The wide angle on the P30 Pro is good too and the night mode is crazy.


----------



## cybershot (May 12, 2020)

Ed style rant: this is a thread about iPhones. Kindly fuck off with your android Chinese spy phones crap. 😆


----------



## Orang Utan (May 12, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Ed style rant: this is a thread about iPhones. Kindly fuck off with your android Chinese spy phones crap. 😆


editor was the first to recommend the Android phone in this last bump!


----------



## editor (May 12, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> editor was the first to recommend the Android phone in this last bump!


Was it not a useful, on-topic suggestion?


----------



## pseudonarcissus (May 12, 2020)

I started at the beginning of the thread too...how things have changed... why I Did I ever give up my Palm Trio for an I phone 13 years ago


----------



## editor (May 12, 2020)

pseudonarcissus said:


> I started at the beginning of the thread too...how things have changed... why I Did I ever give up my Palm Trio for an I phone 13 years ago


It seems I have a knack for backing a loser. 

Favourite computer: Amiga
Favourite phone: Palm


----------



## Orang Utan (May 12, 2020)

editor said:


> Was it not a useful, on-topic suggestion?


I’m not complaining!


----------



## Sunray (May 15, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Ed style rant: this is a thread about iPhones. Kindly fuck off with your android Chinese spy phones crap. 😆



This isn't too far fetched. My mum wanted a smart phone so got this crappy thing off some Tv infomercial, (we've had words).  Its got malware built into the OS at some core level.  I've rooted it and cleared off all the app. Wake up in the morning and ta-da all back like new. 

Its fav trick was to pop up hd porn ad's randomly over the home screen locked, not locked, apps, no matter.  I first noticed it doing this in a meeting.  

The phone came like that new.


----------



## Hollis (Jul 4, 2020)

editor said:


> If you can possibly stretch to a Huawei P30 you'll love it - if you're trying to justify the cost think of its buying a great camera too!



No google stuff or play store on that is there?


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jul 13, 2020)

is this the thread for 'What iPad should I buy' type questions or shall I bang a new thread up.
Mrs A's iPad is b0rked so we're getting another.
I'll explain properly when I know where to post.


----------



## cybershot (Jul 13, 2020)

It says related items, so yeah, I guess!


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jul 13, 2020)

It's the old _which one should I get_ quandary.

Basic iPad vs/or iPad Air plus an Apple Pencil (or similar)

Considering what I want to do and considering futureproofing, is the Air worth it? Or should I wait and see if a new 'basic' model comes out in September?

Tryna stretch those iPad £££.   £430  vs  £555 for ipad+pencil  (from Amazon, plus I can pay over 5 mnthly paymnts with no fees or interest)

Is the Air worth the difference??
_
e2a: clarity_


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 14, 2020)

Throbbing Angel said:


> It's the old _which one should I get_ quandary.
> 
> Basic iPad vs/or iPad Air plus an Apple Pencil (or similar)
> 
> ...



The Air is rarely worth it unless you’ve got excess cash or know that there’s some specific reason you really need the extra processing power or something, and if that was the case you’d already know about it.

Just get the normal iPad.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jul 14, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> if that was the case you’d already know about it.
> Just get the normal iPad.




Cheers


----------



## Marty1 (Jul 14, 2020)

I’ve just recently sold my iPad Air - didn’t use it so the cash came in handy for something I wouldn’t miss.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Jul 18, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> I’ve just recently sold my iPad Air - didn’t use it so the cash came in handy for something I wouldn’t miss.



Why didn't you use it?


----------



## Marty1 (Aug 19, 2020)

Throbbing Angel said:


> Why didn't you use it?



Just use my iPhone.


----------



## Marty1 (Aug 19, 2020)

Apple now valued over $2 trillion.









						Apple passed $2 trillion in market value
					

Among its many accomplishments — the iPhone, the iPad, iTunes, the App store — Apple can now boast of one more: It was briefly worth more than $2 trillion, making it the first company in the United States to reach that milestone.




					www.google.com


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Apple now valued over $2 trillion.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just imagine if they 'only' had a billion profit and all the rest of their zillions had gone to social/community causes.


----------



## Marty1 (Aug 19, 2020)

editor said:


> Just imagine if they 'only' had a billion profit and all the rest of their zillions had gone to social/community causes.



Yup, bunch of greedy hoarding twats selling overpriced tech who have rubbed their hands with glee profiteering over this global pandemic in particular.

Should be a Covid tax introduced to the likes of Apple, Amazon, Google etc who have made added billions.


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Yup, bunch of greedy hoarding twats selling overpriced tech who have rubbed their hands with glee profiteering over this global pandemic in particular.
> 
> Should be a Covid tax introduced to the likes of Apple, Amazon, Google etc who have made added billions.


Any company raking in such obscenely high profits should be forced to share their fucking pots of gold. What does Apple* even need with two trillion?

 (*or any of the other stinking rich cunts)


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 4, 2020)

A big couple of months coming up for Apple product launches.

Currently rumoured:


iPhone 12 (5.4")
iPhone 12 Max (6.1")
iPhone 12 Pro (6.1")
iPhone 12 Pro Max (6.7")
Apple Watch 6
iPad Air 4
AirPods Studio (over ear headphones)
AirTags (Tile-like item tracker)
iOS 14


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 4, 2020)

Thankfully my (5 years old!) 6s will run the upcoming iOS14, so I still have zero reason to upgrade


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 4, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Thankfully my (5 years old!) 6s will run the upcoming iOS14, so I still have zero reason to upgrade



That’s one of the great things about Apple phones, and one of the few things that goes towards justifying their prices - their phones last longer. What five year old Android phone still gets timely security updates and runs all the latest stuff?


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> That’s one of the great things about Apple phones, and one of the few things that goes towards justifying their prices - their phones last longer. What five year old Android phone still gets timely security updates and runs all the latest stuff?


Most people have long given up on their phones after five years, update or no update.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 4, 2020)

editor said:


> Most people have long given up on their phones after five years, update or no update.


Terrible, climate killing, resource wasting, individuals that they are...


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 4, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> That’s one of the great things about Apple phones, and one of the few things that goes towards justifying their prices - their phones last longer. What five year old Android phone still gets timely security updates and runs all the latest stuff?


Most 5 year old iPhones must be like Trigger's broom at this stage.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 4, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Most 5 year old iPhones must be like Trigger's broom at this stage.



Not really given it’s an almighty faff just to replace the battery let alone anything else. The point stands though - they hold their value pretty well compared to any Android I’ve ever owned.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 4, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Most 5 year old iPhones must be like Trigger's broom at this stage.


Mine's had one replacement battery, nowt else. Looks like new, literally not a single scratch on it


----------



## pesh (Sep 4, 2020)

my iphone 6 is still fine


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Sep 4, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> A big couple of months coming up for Apple product launches.
> 
> Currently rumoured:
> 
> ...



I decided on a £100 discount on the current iPad rather that wait for the next one.  Be interested to see what the A12 chip can do over the A10.


----------



## nick (Sep 4, 2020)

editor said:


> Just imagine if they 'only' had a billion profit and all the rest of their zillions had gone to social/community causes.




This might provide cheer then:
"Apple's market capitalization slid over $180 billion as a result of the sell-off, marking the largest one-day loss in value for any company ever, according to Barron's. The report claims the previous record was set by Volkswagen in October 2008, when the automaker lost $153 billion in value in a day, shortly after a massive short squeeze."


----------



## editor (Sep 4, 2020)

nick said:


> This might provide cheer then:
> "Apple's market capitalization slid over $180 billion as a result of the sell-off, marking the largest one-day loss in value for any company ever, according to Barron's. The report claims the previous record was set by Volkswagen in October 2008, when the automaker lost $153 billion in value in a day, shortly after a massive short squeeze."


I'll only be cheered when there comes a day that such greed is outlawed and such vast sums of money are shared equitably.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 6, 2020)

editor said:


> Most people have long given up on their phones after five years, update or no update.



Tell that to my mum. Still on an iPhone 6, and does what she needs it to do. Make calls, send messages and browse the web and Facebook!  Still getting security updates too despite no major iOS updates. 👍


----------



## T & P (Sep 6, 2020)

Perhaps it’s just me, but has anyone else experienced their iPhone no longer wanting to save images from a website to your photo stream? I keep getting error codes such as this one



The issue is easy enough to bypass by simply taking a screenshot of the phone and then saving it as a photo, but I wonder if there’s been some kind of copyright update to the T&Cs and they’re making it more difficult for people to save photographs from websites...


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Tell that to my mum. Still on an iPhone 6, and does what she needs it to do. Make calls, send messages and browse the web and Facebook!  Still getting security updates too despite no major iOS updates. 👍


There's plenty of people equally happy on ancient, non Apple phones that cost a fraction of the price too   👍


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> That’s one of the great things about Apple phones, and one of the few things that goes towards justifying their prices - their phones last longer. What five year old Android phone still gets timely security updates and runs all the latest stuff?



Doubt this one updates much:










						SEALED MINT Original Apple iPhone 1st Generation 8GB - UK COLLECTOR  Rare A1203 | eBay
					

Find great deals for SEALED MINT Original Apple iPhone 1st Generation 8GB - UK COLLECTOR  Rare A1203. Shop with confidence on eBay!



					www.ebay.co.uk


----------



## cybershot (Sep 6, 2020)

editor said:


> There's plenty of people equally happy on ancient, non Apple phones that cost a fraction of the price too   👍



without security updates. Which I think was the point.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 6, 2020)

cybershot said:


> without security updates. Which I think was the point.


It would be terrible if someone managed to hack into your mother's phone and steal her upside-down pineapple cake recipe


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 6, 2020)

Just to reiterate from the other thread. Under absolutely no circumstances should anyone with and ounce of social awareness be running a Huawei phone. Absolutely disgusting company that makes Apple look positively benevolent.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 6, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Just to reiterate from the other thread. Under absolutely no circumstances should anyone with and ounce of social awareness be running a Huawei phone. Absolutely disgusting company that makes Apple look positively benevolent.


I wouldn't dream of buying one. Apple are saints by comparison.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Just to reiterate from the other thread. Under absolutely no circumstances should anyone with and ounce of social awareness be running a Huawei phone. Absolutely disgusting company that makes Apple look positively benevolent.



Treat workers like shit?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Treat workers like shit?


And the rest. Heavily racist employer, in the pocket of the Chinese regime who are currently involved in genocide, steal IP like the practice was going out of fashion, and are probably installing spyware throughout the 5G networks they haven’t yet been banned from.

Great cameras on their smartphones though.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> I wouldn't dream of buying one. Apple are saints by comparison.



Who’s ok to buy from in the android world?

My work android device is Honeywell.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Who’s ok to buy from in the android world?
> 
> My work android device is Honeywell.


I've used Xiaomi for years but go with whoever you like. They're all going to be cunts, it's just to what extent.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Who’s ok to buy from in the android world?


None of them are saints but comparatively, pretty much anyone will be better than Huawei.


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2020)

All of the phone companies exploit workers and fuck up the environment. and they all mine precious resources only to immediately try to persuade you to upgrade and throw the last phone away. To start lauding Apple above any of the other cunts is ludicrous fanboy nonsense. They share many of the same components as all the other phones.

And then there's the moral issue of the vast sums of money they have stashed away when we're living in a world of want.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 6, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> And the rest. Heavily racist employer, in the pocket of the Chinese regime who are currently involved in genocide, steal IP like the practice was going out of fashion, and are probably installing spyware throughout the 5G networks they haven’t yet been banned from.
> 
> Great cameras on their smartphones though.



With all the attention given to the risk to 5g networks you'd have thought we'd have a smoking gun by now.


----------



## editor (Sep 6, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> With all the attention given to the risk to 5g networks you'd have thought we'd have a smoking gun by now.


Some people are apparently happy to take Trump's word for it. I don't think I've seen any actual evidence to back up all the wild allegations.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 6, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> With all the attention given to the risk to 5g networks you'd have thought we'd have a smoking gun by now.



Some people here are apparently happy to give them them the benefit of the massive doubt and excuse their undoubtedly disgusting employment practices and support of a genocidal regime.

Shame on them .


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 6, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Some people here are apparently happy to give them them the benefit of the massive doubt and excuse their undoubtedly disgusting employment practices and support of a genocidal regime.
> 
> Shame on them .



Your trolling unless you don't buy anything made in China. Capatalism is pretty fucked ethicaly, but we know that right?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 7, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Your trolling unless you don't buy anything made in China. Capatalism is pretty fucked ethicaly, but we know that right?


Are you fucking joking?


----------



## Yossarian (Sep 8, 2020)

Why do people who should know better keep repeating over and over again the fallacies that A) smartphone companies are all as bad as each other and B) You can't criticise an individual Chinese company if you own anything made in China?

Huawei has got very close links to the Chinese regime and has played a major role in the country's dystopian surveillance policies, particularly in Xinjiang, where their development of surveillance systems has made them an active participant in genocide.

All of this has been discussed many times before and anybody with any doubts just needs to Google something like "criticisms of Huawei" or "Huawei Xinjiang" - so I don't know how anybody can possibly cling to the narrative that Huawei is a plucky little telecommunications giant that is being unfairly persecuted by Donald Trump.


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2020)

Yossarian said:


> Why do people who should know better keep repeating over and over again the fallacies that A) smartphone companies are all as bad as each other and B) You can't criticise an individual Chinese company if you own anything made in China?
> 
> Huawei has got very close links to the Chinese regime and has played a major role in the country's dystopian surveillance policies, particularly in Xinjiang, where their development of surveillance systems has made them an active participant in genocide.
> 
> All of this has been discussed many times before and anybody with any doubts just needs to Google something like "criticisms of Huawei" or "Huawei Xinjiang" - so I don't know how anybody can possibly cling to the narrative that Huawei is a plucky little telecommunications giant that is being unfairly persecuted by Donald Trump.


I don't recall anyone claiming that they were 'plucky.' Perhaps you could find that quote?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 8, 2020)

Yossarian said:


> Why do people who should know better keep repeating over and over again the fallacies that A) smartphone companies are all as bad as each other and B) You can't criticise an individual Chinese company if you own anything made in China?
> 
> Huawei has got very close links to the Chinese regime and has played a major role in the country's dystopian surveillance policies, particularly in Xinjiang, where their development of surveillance systems has made them an active participant in genocide.
> 
> All of this has been discussed many times before and anybody with any doubts just needs to Google something like "criticisms of Huawei" or "Huawei Xinjiang" - so I don't know how anybody can possibly cling to the narrative that Huawei is a plucky little telecommunications giant that is being unfairly persecuted by Donald Trump.



It's absolutely bananas isn't it?

People who go out of their way to attack other companies for marketing practices or for not giving enough to charity, putting up a hugely spirited defence of a company _actively linked to the PRC regime's genocide.  _

Again, Trump's a dick for hundreds of reasons but the one thing he has bang on the money is his response to China. A stopped clock is right twice a day etc. Unfortunately because it's largely a Trump initiative, those who don't think for themselves follow the hive mind and dismiss it out of hand. Big fucking mistake but it does give them an excuse to keep their super-duper Huawei cameraphones.


----------



## cybershot (Sep 8, 2020)

Apple event is trending on twitter. Just because an Apple event has been announced.

No one does hype like Apple.


----------



## T & P (Sep 9, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Apple event is trending on twitter. Just because an Apple event has been announced.
> 
> No one does hype like Apple.


They should team up with Brewdog


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2020)

For the record, the iPhone is classified as a *100% Chinese export*, even though it uses components from all over the globe, just like other handsets.









						Apple's iPhone isn’t made in China — it’s made everywhere
					

Apple's iPhone isn’t made in China, it’s made everywhere. Apple's iPhone may be calculated as a Chinese import, but is reality…




					macdailynews.com
				



.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2020)

Yossarian said:
			
		

> Why do people who should know better keep repeating over and over again the fallacies that A) smartphone companies are all as bad as each other and B) You can't criticise an individual Chinese company if you own anything made in China?



Because they're caught between a rock and a hard place and their only defence for supporting one of the worst companies on the planet is to shout "well others are just as bad" regardless of the fact that it's simply not true.

Obviously, as already pointed out several times, criticism here is about the disgusting employment and business practices of _Huawei specifically_ and their overt support of the PRC's genocidal regime.

Some though are happy to overlook that and try to deflect and obfuscate in order to feel better about their super-duper-value cameraphones.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 9, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Apple event is trending on twitter. Just because an Apple event has been announced.
> 
> No one does hype like Apple.



I hope they aren’t going to introduce anything ‘brave’ like they did when they removed the headphone jack 

My daughter mentioned something about Apple not going to supply charging cables with new phones but it may just be a rumour.

Saying that - they’ve removed USB ports of their laptops - the gf had to buy a cable to connect USB devices - got charged £17 for a piddly little cable that probably cost Apple 20p to make.  No wonder they’re worth $trillions.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Saying that - they’ve removed USB ports of their laptops - the gf had to buy a cable to connect USB devices - got charged £17 for a piddly little cable that probably cost Apple 20p to make.  No wonder they’re worth $trillions.


They haven't removed USB ports. They've replaced the old (obsolete?) USB A ports with the far superior USB C port. The same port that's used on just about every new device on the planet. It's one of the only things Apple has ever done right.
USB C to A adapters cost a couple of quid. You don't need a rip-off Apple one.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> It's one of the only things Apple has ever done right.


Getting rid of the 3.5mm headphone jack was inspired too.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Getting rid of the 3.5mm headphone jack was inspired too.


That too. A brave move, which was absolutely necessary but one that probably only Apple could successfully pull off. 
The USB C port will transfer video, audio and data, and you can charge your phone from it. It's now the industry standard, and it's about time we had one.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 9, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Getting rid of the 3.5mm headphone jack was inspired too.



Also introducing the lightning connector that could be plugged in either way round. It's equivalent USB-C came out two years later and is basically a copy.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Also introducing the lightning connector that could be plugged in either way round. It's equivalent USB-C came out two years later and is basically a copy.


Not really 









						What's really wrong with Apple's Lightning cable?
					

Why hasn't Apple switched from Lightning to USB-C on the iPhone?




					www.imore.com
				












						USB-C vs. Lightning: Which is the Future?
					

For over a decade, Apple has been hailed as the world’s most innovative brand. There are, however, dissenting voices about Apple’s innovation, for example, its proprietary Lightning connector on iPhones and some other devices. Right now, two types of charging cables dominate the market: USB-C...




					www.ipitaka.com


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Also introducing the lightning connector that could be plugged in either way round. It's equivalent USB-C came out two years later and is basically a copy.


A copy? It's nothing like. 
Can you think why Apple might have ditched their lightning connector in favour of USB C?


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 9, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> A copy? It's nothing like.
> Can you think why Apple might have ditched their lightning connector in favour of USB C?



Increasing profits would be my first thought.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 9, 2020)

editor said:


> Not really
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That explains clearly why Lightning was superior to USB-C. That may not remain the case and they may switch their phones at some point, but again this is explained in that article.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> That explains clearly why Lightning was superior to USB-C. That may not remain the case and they may switch their phones at some point, but again this is explained in that article.


Sure. 


> Like I said at the very beginning. I'd be far better for me if Apple switched from Lightning to USB-C. I could use one cable to charge my iPhone, iPad Pro, and MacBook Pro.


Universal should always be preferred to proprietary, unless you like carrying around a shit load of extra cables around and paying through the nose for each one.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> That explains clearly why Lightning was superior to USB-C.


No it doesn't


----------



## cybershot (Sep 9, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> My daughter mentioned something about Apple not going to supply charging cables with new phones but it may just be a rumour.



Likely true, and everyone already has tons of plugs and cables already, if it brings down the price, then bonus, rumour is these will be great value phones for the prices and potentially cost less than last years models. The standard 11 was a great phone spec for the price, and will get updates for longer than 3 years!


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 9, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> No it doesn't



Oh but it does. For example 


Spoiler



So, years before USB-C shipped on the 12-inch MacBook, Apple made Lightning. Symmetrical and less frustrating to plug in, purely digital, so it could adapt to new standards and be more future-proof, and tiny — even smaller than USB-C ended up being — so Apple could build the next-generation devices they wanted to build...And for anyone who remembers, never mind USB-A, but the real fragmentation that was USB-B, and all the mini USB and microUSB variants that made finding the right cable for the right device a nightmare that kinda laughs at Apple "only" plaguing customers with A and C...And, anyone who had to deal with USB-C in the early days will remember when the only way to tell the difference between a cable that worked and a cable that could catch fire or short out your gear were the Amazon reviews a single Google engineer was doing out of the goodness of his heart and frustration in his soul....Now, even ignoring the quality issues with USB-C, especially since it's better now than it used to be, anyone trying to use USB-C still faces other problems. Because not all USB-C cables are the same. If you need high power USB-C, you need a cable that supports USB-PD. The connectors look the same though and most people couldn't tell the cables apart at a glance. And that's still not even factoring in the various ratings and requirements for Qualcomm's QuickCharge. If you need high speed, you have to worry about USB 2.0, 3.0, and 3.1 variants. How do you know by just looking at them? If you need super high speed, you need USB-C that supports Thunderbolt 3. Again, the connectors look the same and most people would have to look really hard for that little Thunderbolt icon, if it's there. But, even at its worst, if you get or buy a Lightning Cable from Apple, you can plug it in and in the vast majority of cases, and certainly pretty much every mainstream use case, it'll just work in a way USB-C doesn't and maybe never will.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Oh but it does. For example
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Instead of copying and pasting a load of nonsense, tell us why the lightning connector is or was better than the USB C connector


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Oh but it does. For example
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...


Or you just buy a cable/charger that works with everything rather than some proprietary rip off bullshit.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 9, 2020)

editor said:


> Or you just buy a cable/charger that works with everything rather than some proprietary rip off bullshit.



I have two big boxes full of non-proprietary computer cables and adapters that don't work with everything, 34-pin IDE, 40-pin IDE, PS/2 to USB-A, micro-USB chargers ... Proprietaryness is irrelevant and a total non-issue to most iPhone users.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Proprietaryness is irrelevant and a total non-issue to most iPhone users.



Quite. "Oh noes, I can't charge my phone with my son's cables" ... Who gives a fuck  I've got loads of other cables that work just fine thanks.

It's just a made-up problem.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Proprietaryness is irrelevant and a total non-issue to most iPhone users.


in fairness, being told that you have no signal because you're holding the phone incorrectly is a total non-issue to most iPhone users. As is every potential warranty claim being blamed on water ingress.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> I have two big boxes full of non-proprietary computer cables and adapters that don't work with everything, 34-pin IDE, 40-pin IDE, PS/2 to USB-A, micro-USB chargers ... Proprietaryness is irrelevant and a total non-issue to most iPhone users.


So proprietary, more expensive hardware that only works with one manufacturer is OK in your world? Me, I like it when one cable works with everything, with no extra adaptors or special cables needed - like my phone, my laptop and my cameras.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 9, 2020)

editor said:


> So proprietary, more expensive hardware that only works with one manufacturer is OK in your world? Me, I like it when one cable works with everything, with no extra adaptors or special cables needed - like my phone, my laptop and my cameras.



Don't get me started on laptop power cables and connectors


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Don't get me started on laptop power cables and connectors


My Chromebooks work with USB-C. Lovely.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Don't get me started on laptop power cables and connectors


Does anyone really give a shit about this either though? My laptop has usbc charging but I hardly ever use it. It'll be nice when all cables fit all devices and that will probably be USBC but until then it's snake's-belly low on my list of things that bother me.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 9, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Does anyone really give a shit about this either though? My laptop has usbc charging but I hardly ever use it. It'll be nice when all cables fit all devices and that will probably be USBC but until then it's snake's-belly low on my list of things that bother me.



It’s been a few years since I had a laptop, since my iPad now satisfies all my travelling big screen needs. However I just remember a world of dodgy connectors and chunky bricks with kettle leads in one end. If things have improved with a simple connector then that’s a good thing.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> It’s been a few years since I had a laptop, since my iPad now satisfies all my travelling big screen needs. However I just remember a world of dodgy connectors and chunky bricks with kettle leads in one end. If things have improved with a simple connector then that’s a good thing.


I'm on the road a lot, and being able to take one small USB multi-charger to take care of everything is a bloody godsend.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 9, 2020)

editor said:


> I'm on the road a lot, and being able to take one small USB multi-charger to take care of everything is a bloody godsend.



Same here with my iPad, iPhone and single lightning cable.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Same here with my iPad, iPhone and single lightning cable.


Except I'm using products by 4 different manufacturers, and that includes a camera.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 9, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Does anyone really give a shit about this either though? My laptop has usbc charging but I hardly ever use it. It'll be nice when all cables fit all devices and that will probably be USBC but until then it's snake's-belly low on my list of things that bother me.


I couldn't care less. I have a charger beside my bed. It has 6 sockets, with three different types of cable plugged in. I just select the one I want to use, and cables cost pennies, but there should be a standard at this stage, and it should be USB C, as it is the better connector. Unfortunately, that's not how it works. Some of these devices will have been designed with micro USB connectors, as it was all that was available at the time of concept, and it costs to redesign something to fit a different connector.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 9, 2020)

editor said:


> Except I'm using products by 4 different manufacturers, and that includes a camera.



Good for you. If I had a camera and a chromebook I might carry an additional USB-C cable...really no bother. It’s a far cry from the old days of needing several chargers that were hardwired into their respective proprietary connectors.


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 10, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> And the rest. Heavily racist employer, in the pocket of the Chinese regime who are currently involved in genocide, steal IP like the practice was going out of fashion, and are probably installing spyware throughout the 5G networks they haven’t yet been banned from.



Amazon aren’t too far away from all that (minus being in the pocket of the Chinese regime).

I guess buying a Huawei phone via Amazon is the ultimate ethical consumer conundrum.


----------



## mauvais (Sep 10, 2020)

Apparently I have won some Airpods Pro, Airpod Pros, Airspods Pros, whatever, in some corporate competition. Unusually I did enter this competition so it is possible.

I haven't really got any use for them, especially as I'm not an iPhone user. If they ever turn up, is there somewhere sensible to sell them? I'm considering offering them up here, at work etc and donating half the proceeds to MSF or something.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 10, 2020)

mauvais said:


> Apparently I have won some Airpods Pro, Airpod Pros, Airspods Pros, whatever, in some corporate competition. Unusually I did enter this competition so it is possible.
> 
> I haven't really got any use for them, especially as I'm not an iPhone user. If they ever turn up, is there somewhere sensible to sell them? I'm considering offering them up here, at work etc and donating half the proceeds to MSF or something.



You could offer one here and the other one to MSF


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 11, 2020)

What particularly pisses me off about lightning cables is the amount I’ve bought off eBay, Poundland, etc which have all failed within weeks of buying them and the ‘unsupported accessory’ message popping up. I reckon at least 7 or 8 cables  this has happened whereas I’ve never had that problem with usb.

Of course if Apple supplied something slightly longer than a 0.75m cable that didn’t have a tendency to fray easily, this probably wouldn’t be an issue where I’d need to buy new ones, but hey. 

Oh and the official long ones are a ridic price too. Currently I’m using an Amazon Basics 1.5m fabric one which (touch wood) hasn’t failed me yet but give it time.


----------



## nick (Sep 11, 2020)

I use the Anker lightning cables  (normally 6ft length) - I pick up a few spares when on offer. I think they are much better quality - although they die after a while as well.

Today the basic quality black one is £8.65 with a voucher on Amazon, ( if your ethics permit)

I think Anker do a no question replacement of broken ones, but I don't often bother as a  bit of a faff

FWIW - cables not an issue with wireless charging on my phone.


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 11, 2020)

Yes I'm sure they want to go completely cable-less as soon as they can, but the outcry over the headphone socket shows that there are plenty of people waiting to shit on any such attempt at progress.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 11, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Yes I'm sure they want to go completely cable-less as soon as they can, but the outcry over the headphone socket shows that there are plenty of people waiting to shit on any such attempt at progress.



We would need a few more power stations as well. On an individual level the lack of efficiency is not exactly a deal breaker but multiplied over millions of devices and it actually equates to a fair bit more demand for power.


----------



## nick (Sep 11, 2020)

One day I hope there will be hydrogen powered devices.
And a few years later there will be a beautifully crafted iCell phone launched which will cost £2,000

With a proprietary method for putting the water in for the hydrogen - which will need a £50 connector to attach to your tap


----------



## ohmyliver (Sep 29, 2020)

I've f*cked my iPad.  4013 error code, red screen flash after boot.   I can't see any prices less than about 400 quid for repairs from Apple (which is more than I payed for it), are there any recommended 3rd party repairers in London?


----------



## platinumsage (Sep 29, 2020)

ohmyliver said:


> I've f*cked my iPad.  4013 error code, red screen flash after boot.   I can't see any prices less than about 400 quid for repairs from Apple (which is more than I payed for it), are there any recommended 3rd party repairers in London?



Sounds like a software problem unless you smashed it? Did you try a hard reset?


----------



## ohmyliver (Sep 29, 2020)

Done the hard reset.  Done the update (not restore tho, I'm still coming to terms with losing about a years worth of drawings/shite music/photos).   Nada.  It's been in a heavy duty armor case because children.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Sep 29, 2020)

You could try borrowing a copy of Wondershare's Dr Fone, and see if that works. But from experience, I'd be doing a thorough check for malware after uninstalling it. I'm not suggesting Wondershare are a bunch of cunts but...


----------



## peterkro (Sep 29, 2020)

Apple is part of USB-IF and is partially responsible for USB-C, it's also worth noting Intels Thunderbolt 3 (Apple did a lot of work on Thunderbolt then handed it on to Intel to develop further ) is far superior to USB-C but it is seamlessly backwards compatible with it giving the best of both worlds universal as USB-C and twice as fast and with daisy chaining abilities with Thunderbolt.Standard on modern Macs and making headway in better specced PC's.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 29, 2020)

ohmyliver said:


> Done the hard reset.  Done the update (not restore tho, I'm still coming to terms with losing about a years worth of drawings/shite music/photos).   Nada.  It's been in a heavy duty armor case because children.


Won’t your files be backup up to iCloud?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 1, 2020)

Rumours abound for an October 13 launch of an iPhone 12 Mini, iPhone 12 Pro and iPhone 12 Pro Max.

And... set your excitement levels to the max, because it's also rumoured that the top tier models getting an "angular new chassis design"


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 1, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Rumours abound for an October 13 launch of an iPhone 12 Mini, iPhone 12 Pro and iPhone 12 Pro Max.
> 
> And... set your excitement levels to the max, because it's also rumoured that the top tier models getting an "angular new chassis design"


CHANGES EVERYTHING


----------



## Detroit City (Oct 1, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Rumours abound for an October 13 launch of an iPhone 12 Mini, iPhone 12 Pro and iPhone 12 Pro Max.
> 
> And... set your excitement levels to the max, because it's also rumoured that the top tier models getting an "angular new chassis design"


i have a iPhone 8+ and that works fine for me, i don't even use most of the features it has


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 1, 2020)

Why do we _still _have to have these stupid little graphics in hyperlinks?

"*F*rumoured" ffs


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 1, 2020)

They'll all get the same angular design, from the mini through to the pro max, a bit like the iPhone 5, because they've released the exterior dimensions for the case makers already.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 1, 2020)

Anyway I'll be pre-ordering a mini (I like it small and light to carry around) and the OH will do likewise with a pro max (needs the screen space to read documents and wants the bestest camera).


----------



## editor (Oct 1, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> CHANGES EVERYTHING


That'll get them QUAKING IN THEIR BOOTS at Samsung, Huawei, Xiaomi, Oppo, LG etc etc. And I was very happy with my phone until I heard about this angular new chassis. Now I NEED one. Who'll join me  the three day queue? I'll bring my high-fiving gloves.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Oct 1, 2020)

Is this where I ask about which stylus to get for my iPad??

Apple Pencil 1st gen to go with a 7th gen iPad or A.N.Other stylus?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 1, 2020)

Throbbing Angel said:


> Is this where I ask about which stylus to get for my iPad??
> 
> Apple Pencil 1st gen to go with a 7th gen iPad or A.N.Other stylus?


I hear Apple are making each 'pencil' device specific, tied to the MAC address of the iPad, so if you lose your pencil, you have to buy a new iPad. It's a security feature.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Oct 2, 2020)

It's not April is it?


----------



## Ponyutd (Oct 4, 2020)

I have forgotten my security iphone number. Obviously have the the fingerprint entry, how @*&%%@ I am ?


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2020)

Ponyutd said:


> I have forgotten my security iphone number. Obviously have the the fingerprint entry, how @*&%%@ I am ?



you mean your pin code?
Don’t restart your phone until you’ve remembered it.

I think you’ll need to back up your phone, and restore it.


----------



## Ponyutd (Oct 4, 2020)

Thanks. 
I want to give it away. The pin code, yes. I gave it to a family member, that's when I found I couldn't remember the number.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 7, 2020)

New iPhone 12 Range Tipped To Be Cheaper Than iPhone 11 Models
					

New changes to Apple's iPhone 12 range have been revealed, and you will like them a lot...




					www.forbes.com


----------



## editor (Oct 7, 2020)

cybershot said:


> New iPhone 12 Range Tipped To Be Cheaper Than iPhone 11 Models
> 
> 
> New changes to Apple's iPhone 12 range have been revealed, and you will like them a lot...
> ...


I didn't realise a price decision could be "stunning."

Anyway, this is them if anyone's interested



> iPhone 12 mini (5.4-inch) - 64GB ($649), 128GB ($699), 256GB ($799)
> iPhone 12 (6.1-inch) - 64GB ($749), 128GB ($799), 256GB ($899)
> iPhone 12 Pro (6.1-inch) - 128GB ($999), 256GB ($1099), 512GB ($1299)
> iPhone 12 Pro Max (6.7-inch) - 128GB ($1099), 256GB ($1199), 512GB ($1399)


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 7, 2020)

I can certainly see the appeal in the iPhone 12 mini.

Based on those rumored dimensions, it would be even more dinky than the SE. I'm getting increasingly tired of wide phones too. Even my iPhone 11 is a hassle to use one handed after a while. My partner's iPhone SE (2020) is a lot easier to use by comparison.

That said, I don't see much else to get excited about. 5G uses more battery, and I can't think what I'd need the extra speed for anyway. I'm not really fussed about better processor or camera either. This will be more interesting to people with ageing iphones I think.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 7, 2020)

Those dollar amounts usually translate into pounds sterling. I bet the mini proves the most successful of them all.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 11, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> I can certainly see the appeal in the iPhone 12 mini.
> 
> Based on those rumored dimensions, it would be even more dinky than the SE. I'm getting increasingly tired of wide phones too. Even my iPhone 11 is a hassle to use one handed after a while. My partner's iPhone SE (2020) is a lot easier to use by comparison.
> 
> That said, I don't see much else to get excited about. 5G uses more battery, and I can't think what I'd need the extra speed for anyway. I'm not really fussed about better processor or camera either. This will be more interesting to people with ageing iphones I think.



I went from a 6 to a second-hand X that was 1/2 the cost of new, one year after release.

This was an amazing upgrade! So much better everything.  I was loving the face id up to the point I had to wear masks all over the place.

Who buys phones new these days?  I've not done it since the iPhone 4.  Say what you want about Apple, but their build quality means second hand phones are reliable.


----------



## strung out (Oct 11, 2020)

Sunray said:


> Who buys phones new these days?


Virtually everyone.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 12, 2020)

Speculation that large parts of the UK may struggle to get a 5G signal on the new iPhone in the UK (unless you're on Three)









						Apple's new 5G iPhone could see coverage issues in the UK
					

There are questions in the telecoms industry over the new iPhone's support of the 700MHz 5G band




					www.telegraph.co.uk
				






> Telecoms industry insiders have warned that the iPhone, which Apple is due on Tuesday, may not connect to the 700MHz 5G band.
> 
> This could leave customers searching for 5G coverage, analysts have warned.
> 
> The launch of the new iPhone without support for 700MHz spectrum could hand a key advantage to Three, which has acquired large amounts of 5G spectrum.




This would obviously be rubbish if true. I ditched Three last year because their 4G speeds and coverage left a lot to be desired, so I've no interest in going back just for 5G. And TBH, I'm happy enough with the 4G speed I have already on EE. The only appeal the new iPhone has is the smaller size offered by the mini, but I'll live without it for now.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 12, 2020)

I’m still yet to see a compelling argument for 5g on a phone. What on Earth do you need that speed for


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 12, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I’m still yet to see a compelling argument for 5g on a phone. What on Earth do you need that speed for



I agree. Unless it actually addresses connectivity issues in more rural dead zones or penetrates walls better, I cannot see how my life will be made any better by 5G right now.

The most compelling argument I do see for it, is addressing latency issues which could have benefits for syncing musicians performing remotely together, and some online video gaming advantages, but in terms of speed advantages for mobile devices it seems to be near useless for most people.


----------



## danski (Oct 12, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I’m still yet to see a compelling argument for 5g on a phone. What on Earth do you need that speed for


Spreading a virus, duh.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 12, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> What on Earth do you need that speed for



Haven't people always said this about advances in computing? My 8Mbps ADSL was more than enough but now I have Ultra-HD Netflix.

Perhaps people will soon use their phones to browse 360° live video streams of events or something.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 12, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Haven't people always said this about advances in computing? My 8Mbps ADSL was more than enough but now I have Ultra-HD Netflix.
> 
> Perhaps people will soon use their phones to browse 360° live video streams of events or something.



That kind of use won't count for much until they remove limitations on monthly data usage. Even my "unlimited" plan on EE has a fair use policy of 1000GB/month in reality.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 12, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Haven't people always said this about advances in computing? My 8Mbps ADSL was more than enough but now I have Ultra-HD Netflix.
> 
> Perhaps people will soon use their phones to browse 360° live video streams of events or something.


Maybe, but you're going to hit the limitations of such a small screen at some point, surely? Anything over standard HD on a phone screen is utterly pointless.

Just seems we're getting to smaller and smaller increments with phones now, with the manufactures desperately trying to come up with "changes everything" moments that are less and less impressive/relevant for most users each time.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 12, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Speculation that large parts of the UK may struggle to get a 5G signal on the new iPhone in the UK (unless you're on Three)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



TL;DR
An unannounced product with unconfirmed spec might not work with a network band that has yet to be auctioned.

So let me get this straight; you're upset that a soon to be released device won't support a band that no telecom currently supports, or can even think about supporting in the UK until sometime next year...This seems to me to be a hilariously pointless article.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 12, 2020)

cybershot said:


> So let me get this straight; you're upset that a soon to be released device won't support a band that no telecom currently supports, or can even think about supporting in the UK until sometime next year...This seems to me to be a hilariously pointless article.



Yeah, basically. It'll mean reduced coverage in rural areas when it's auctioned off. They should sort it out.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 13, 2020)

Interesting article about how these phones will be the first things to use a 5nm chip, and about how China can’t get the tech:









						Apple iPhone 12: The chip advance set to make smartphones smarter
					

A chip-making process pioneered in the Netherlands will let smartphones take the next leap forward.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## cybershot (Oct 13, 2020)

Can't wait for this. If there's one thing the world needs right now, it's a new iPhone, and I for one, am all over it.

(For some reason I feel the need to point out I'm being sarcastic)


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 13, 2020)

Not long til the event now.

A reputable leaker has shared what appears to be the iPhone 12 mini in  blue, red, green, black, and white.






And the iPhone 12 Pro in blue, graphite, gold, and silver





This surely changes EVERYTHING.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 13, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> This surely changes EVERYTHING.



Well it was hardly going to be shaped like a boomerang and with a screen made of squirrel fur was it?


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Well it was hardly going to be shaped like a boomerang and with a screen made of squirrel fur was it?


Given the asking price and the competition, I thought they might have got rid of that mahooosive notch, slimmed down the bezels and given the screen a bit of a curve.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 13, 2020)

Right now the most useful function for me, would be a fingerprint scanner to override the face ID which is less than ideal in a world where we're expected to be wearing masks everywhere.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Right now the most useful function for me, would be a fingerprint scanner to override the face ID which is less than ideal in a world where we're expected to be wearing masks everywhere.


Surely it will have one as an option, no?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 13, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Right now the most useful function for me, would be a fingerprint scanner to override the face ID which is less than ideal in a world where we're expected to be wearing masks everywhere.


Add a second unlock ID, and wear your mask for it.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 13, 2020)

editor said:


> Surely it will have one as an option, no?



The new iPad has it, so the tech definitely exists. I've not seen any confirmation that it will be on the iPhone as yet, but it would be most welcome.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 13, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Add a second unlock ID, and wear your mask for it.



Having just googled, I can see there is some kind of workaround for this. Even so, it would  be nice to have something that doesn't require pointing my phone at my face all the time.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 13, 2020)

Oooh, new iPhones.









						iPhone 12 Introduced With Flat-Edge Design, 5G, A14 Chip, New Colors, MagSafe, and More
					

Apple today introduced the 6.1-inch iPhone 12 with a flat-edged design, 5G support, a faster A14 Bionic chip, a dual-lens rear camera system, and...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 13, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Oooh, new iPhones.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ooh, flat edge... Edgy!


----------



## cybershot (Oct 13, 2020)

Apple Unveils iPhone 12 Pro and iPhone 12 Pro Max With 5G, Flat-Edge Design, LiDAR Scanner, New Colors, and More
					

Apple today unveiled the new 6.1-inch iPhone 12 Pro and 6.7-inch iPhone 12 Pro Max at its pre-recorded "Hi, Speed" digital event.     ...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## cybershot (Oct 13, 2020)

iPhone 12 Mini Introduced With 5.4-Inch Display, Starts at $699
					

Apple today introduced the iPhone 12 mini with a 5.4-inch edge-to-edge Super Retina XDR display, a new flat-edge design with new colors, 5G support,...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## cybershot (Oct 13, 2020)

Urgh, had convinced myself to get the standard 12, then that camera in the Pro! God damn you.


----------



## danski (Oct 13, 2020)

Flat edge? iPhone 4?
That changes, er, nothing much really.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Oct 13, 2020)

The little HomePod looks cute...fortunately my B&W Z2 does the job for now, but I could be tempted.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2020)

This obsession for ever higher pixel densities really is a busted flush. Unless you really need to examine your screen from 1cm away who the fuck can tell the difference in normal use.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 13, 2020)

editor said:


> This obsession for ever higher pixel densities really is a busted flush. Unless you really need to examine your screen from 1cm away who the fuck can tell the difference in normal use.


Quite. Phone screens have been more than acceptable for years now. All they're doing is wasting power with ever higher pixel counts.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 13, 2020)

I’ve been holding out getting A new phone for a while and mines starting to get a bit slow/creaky/short of battery life. So I’m gonna get a 12 I think. I’ll report back, I’m not gonna go out and fight people for one on release date, but I’ll pick one up reasonably quickly. It comes in at £649 trading my iPhone 8 in.


----------



## strung out (Oct 13, 2020)

Will probably end up getting a 12 mini, also trading my 8 in. Considering a new iPad Air too, I actually really kinda like the new squared off designs.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 13, 2020)

strung out said:


> Will probably end up getting a 12 mini, also trading my 8 in. Considering a new iPad Air too, I actually really kinda like the new squared off designs.



I’ve been considering a new iPad too, but on reflection I don’t actually use the one I’ve got so much, so haven’t bothered.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 13, 2020)

OK, I'm properly tempted to upgrade for the first time since I got my 6s. That camera looks amazing.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 14, 2020)

The  home pod is dumb. Apples obsession on their own services hobbles what technically is a nice device. No Spotify.
Like the new green.Disappointed they didn’t get rid of the notch. Or at least make it smaller.
I’ll get one 2nd hand when they are 1/2 price or less.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 14, 2020)

The home pod mini seems like another miss to me. If the whole point was to compete with lower price rivals then at £99 it’s still twice the price of the equivalent 4th Gen Echo Dot.

I can’t see why anyone other than the hardest of hardcore Apple fans would get one.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 14, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Speculation that large parts of the UK may struggle to get a 5G signal on the new iPhone in the UK (unless you're on Three)
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Turns out they do support 700MHz 5G, although neither the Telegraph nor any of the dozens of outlets who reported their story have seen fit to publish a correction.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 14, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Turns out they do support 700MHz 5G, although neither the Telegraph nor any of the dozens of outlets who reported their story have seen fit to publish a correction.



I think they were only quoting 'industry insiders' speculative concern. Obvs, that's good for the UK though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2020)

I’ll probably get the new SE if I upgrade. I’m not looking forward to losing a headphone jack, but I could use the extra space for all the apps everyone wants me to install.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 14, 2020)

The SE is a good phone. The OH has one and it's so easy to use one handed as its so dinky but as fast as my 11, plus the touch ID means yo don't have to have an uncovered face to look at it, which is a bonus nowadays.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 14, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> The home pod mini seems like another miss to me. If the whole point was to compete with lower price rivals then at £99 it’s still twice the price of the equivalent 4th Gen Echo Dot.
> 
> I can’t see why anyone other than the hardest of hardcore Apple fans would get one.



Its never going to compete on price, its Apple after all.  I'd actually consider one if it wasn't so locked into the Apple ecosphere. Its not like Apple are world leaders in voice assistance, are they?  
Does anyone use siri for anything but a comedy moment.  Sadly Amazon's efforts apart from the original echo are a bit shit from a sound quality perspective.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 14, 2020)

Sunray said:


> Its never going to compete on price, its Apple after all.  I'd actually consider one if it wasn't so locked into the Apple ecosphere. Its not like Apple are world leaders in voice assistance, are they?
> Does anyone use siri for anything but a comedy moment.  Sadly Amazon's efforts apart from the original echo are a bit shit from a sound quality perspective.



Sure, if they delivered something radically different and nicer to use, then fine. But these things are all largely the same.

But even so, they're not even competing on performance because they can't even be linked to Spotify which after all has the largest market share of music streaming subscribers. They seem to be going after the Apple Music subscriber base and charging twice the price. It just seems like a missed opportunity to me.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2020)

Sunray said:


> Does anyone use siri for anything but a comedy moment.


I don’t. Nor Cortana on my laptop. It’s not a Star Trek interface yet, so I don’t see the point.

I’m put in mind of an incident in a pub in Kippen where a guy at the bar was asking Google on his phone for directions to Girvan (a town in Ayrshire). The phone kept telling him it was more than 6000 miles to Durban and how to set off.

“No, GIR-VAN” he annunciated in a louder and louder voice, getting more and more irritated.

A Polish guy who’d been talking on his phone interrupted his own conversation to interject:

“Why you don’t just type it?”

A life lesson in one lunchtime incident.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> The SE is a good phone. The OH has one and it's so easy to use one handed as its so dinky but as fast as my 11, plus the touch ID means yo don't have to have an uncovered face to look at it, which is a bonus nowadays.


Cheers. I have the old style SE and love it. I want a phone sized phone, not a tablet.  But fancy the 64gb size of the new one.


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 14, 2020)

danny la rouge said:


> Cheers. I have the old style SE and love it. I want a phone sized phone, not a tablet.  But fancy the 64gb size of the new one.



The iPhone 12 Mini is smaller and lighter than the new SE, although it's also 75% more expensive.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 14, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> The iPhone 12 Mini is smaller and lighter than the new SE, although it's also 75% more expensive.


Yeah, I can get a new SE for the same payment as my current plan. So, I won’t be going for anything else really. It’s upgrade or sim only.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 14, 2020)

I can’t get my head around the sizes anymore, how they all compare to my (still the best phone they’ve ever made imho) 6s. I’ll go visit a store at some point and give them all a fondle


----------



## Marty1 (Oct 15, 2020)

I wonder if Apple’s next phone will be called the iPhone 13?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 15, 2020)

There's already speculation about what the iPhone 13 will bring









						First Apple iPhone 13 Leaks Reveal Smaller Notch, ProMotion Display, Touch ID
					

Apple's iPhone 12 range has problems which we now know the iPhone 13 will fix...




					www.forbes.com


----------



## nick (Oct 15, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> I wonder if Apple’s next phone will be called the iPhone 13?


iphone 2021 ?

Back in the day Psion jumped from the 3 to the 5 as apparently 4 is an unlucky number in some regions (Japan?)


----------



## strung out (Oct 15, 2020)

nick said:


> iphone 2021 ?
> 
> Back in the day Psion jumped from the 3 to the 5 as apparently 4 is an unlucky number in some regions (Japan?)


Phonetically, 4 sounds like the word for death in Chinese. Garmin skipped 4 in their Fenix watch range a few years ago for similar reasons I think.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 16, 2020)

Well I’ve ordered one. 

I’m sure someone will be along shortly to tell me I’ve been ripped of and that I’m literally worse than Hitler for buying a new iPhone to replace my ailing iPhone, but it is what it is and I’m looking forward to getting one that isn’t struggling along on 80% battery life.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 16, 2020)

I would have pre ordered a pro if i wasn’t mid solicitor hell with a house move so not sure how much I will need to pay them and whatever other stupid fees on completion day. Once that’s out the way I’ll get one.


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 17, 2020)

So with the release of the 12, iPhone 11 takes a price drop and as far as I can see an 11 with 128MB is around £700 vs. a 12 with same memory for around £900.

Better screen, 5G, maybe more battery life, all of those seem like things I could live without, but how do you put a value on the longer anticipated lifespan of a phone with a much faster processor?  In 4 years time will an 11 be slow and clunky on the latest iOS whereas a 12 might still have 2 years of acceptably brisk performance still in it?  I don’t know?

What might the resale values look like if upgrading in 3 or 4 years from now?


----------



## cybershot (Oct 17, 2020)

Resale values won’t change much when the new ones nearly always come in at the same price as the old one was selling for the day before.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 17, 2020)

MrCurry said:


> So with the release of the 12, iPhone 11 takes a price drop and as far as I can see an 11 with 128MB is around £700 vs. a 12 with same memory for around £900.
> 
> Better screen, 5G, maybe more battery life, all of those seem like things I could live without, but how do you put a value on the longer anticipated lifespan of a phone with a much faster processor?  In 4 years time will an 11 be slow and clunky on the latest iOS whereas a 12 might still have 2 years of acceptably brisk performance still in it?  I don’t know?
> 
> What might the resale values look like if upgrading in 3 or 4 years from now?


fwiw, I’m using an old 6s (5 years old now) and it runs the very latest version of iOS quite happily with no lag, slowdown or apparent loss of performance from the day I bought it. All I’ve had to do was replace the battery just over a year ago. Apple has many faults but in tech terms they support their kit for a long time.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 17, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> fwiw, I’m using an old 6s (5 years old now) and it runs the very latest version of iOS quite happily with no lag, slowdown or apparent loss of performance from the day I bought it. All I’ve had to do was replace the battery just over a year ago. Apple has many faults but in tech terms they support their kit for a long time.



Exactly.

If you look after it reasonably well, all the iPhones I've had apart from one still work.   (The one that is now dead was smashed when I got given it and I seemed to double down on smashing it more for some reason.  )

Apple release new phones so often, new becomes a bargain very quickly.  Reliability is such, I'd consider myself very unlucky to get a faulty one from non-commercial ebay sellers.


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2020)

peterkro said:


> Apple is part of USB-IF and is partially responsible for USB-C, it's also worth noting Intels Thunderbolt 3 (Apple did a lot of work on Thunderbolt then handed it on to Intel to develop further ) is far superior to USB-C but it is seamlessly backwards compatible with it giving the best of both worlds universal as USB-C and twice as fast and with daisy chaining abilities with Thunderbolt.Standard on modern Macs and making headway in better specced PC's.


Just to update you on that: 









						Apple should switch the iPhone to USB-C if it really wants to help the environment
					

Drop the proprietary standard once and for all.




					www.theverge.com


----------



## Sunray (Oct 20, 2020)

Yeah, lightning is too long in the tooth now.  I can't see it being in the next set of phones. 

I suppose sticking with a format does give 3rd party vendors some chance to make things sure in the knowlege it will last for a while and not doom any product in seconds.  That does something for the landfill at least.

Plus, lets be real here, USB-C isn't exactly the best version of USB ever made.  Cables for this are a bit of a nightmare.  
The cost of some of the cables for USB-C are insane, the Oculous Quest 2 USB-C cable to allow you to use it as a headset for PC VR games, its $89, its a copper fiber combo so it can in use charge.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2020)

Just bought a refurbed iPhone 7 and it doesn’t have a fucking headphone slot.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Oct 20, 2020)

Sunray said:


> Yeah, lightning is too long in the tooth now.  I can't see it being in the next set of phones.


With the introduction of the new Magsafe chargers, it looks quite possible that next year they'll do away with plug-in recharging cables completely.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 20, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Just bought a refurbed iPhone 7 and it doesn’t have a fucking headphone slot.


Welcome to the future


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Welcome to the future


So now I have to buy more gear and remember to charge it. Fuck that.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 20, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> So now I have to buy more gear and remember to charge it. Fuck that.


Did it not come with the little adapter for a wired set of headphones?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Did it not come with the little adapter for a wired set of headphones?


nope, just the charger


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 20, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> nope, just the charger


I might have a spare floating around somewhere if you want?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 20, 2020)

By "might" I mean "definitely have, but it'll be in one of several tubs of random cables and adaptors so might take a bit of searching for"


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I might have a spare floating around somewhere if you want?


ooh yeah ta no worries if not - i'm sure they aren't too pricey - how does it work? through the usb?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 20, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> ooh yeah ta no worries if not - i'm sure they aren't too pricey - how does it work? through the usb?











						Lightning to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter
					

The Lightning to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter lets you connect devices with an audio jack to Lightning accessories. Buy now with fast, free shipping, or visit an Apple Store today.



					www.apple.com
				




They're 9 quid but I've definitely got a few floating around somewhere, I'll have a look when I get a minute. Drop me a PM with your address...


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 20, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> how does it work? through the usb?


No, you plug it into the headphone jack... 🤣


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> No, you plug it into the headphone jack... 🤣


The one that isn’t there


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 20, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> The one that isn’t there


Exactly. Where else might it plug in?


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 20, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Exactly. Where else might it plug in?


Your arse


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 20, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> Your arse


I prefer something a little larger.


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Lightning to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter
> 
> 
> The Lightning to 3.5mm Headphone Jack Adapter lets you connect devices with an audio jack to Lightning accessories. Buy now with fast, free shipping, or visit an Apple Store today.
> ...


NINE quid? Oh my oh my. A sucker born every minute.


----------



## cybershot (Oct 21, 2020)

Apple iPhone 12 review: raising the bar
					

New screen, new design, new 5G, new MagSafe. That’s a lot of new, but is it enough?




					www.theverge.com
				













						Apple iPhone 12 Pro review: ahead of its time
					

The big thing about the Pro model this year is it’s shiny.




					www.theverge.com


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 21, 2020)

editor said:


> NINE quid? Oh my oh my. A sucker born every minute.


Yeah. Perhaps people would be better off paying 13 quid for a Samsung one instead.









						Official Samsung USB-C To 3.5mm Audio Aux Headphone Adapter - White
					

If your Samsung device doesn't have the 3.5mm port, this premium Official Samsung USB-C to 3.5 mm headphone jack adaptor in white offers a solution. Using this adaptor, you can listen to audio on your smartphone using your wired 3.5mm headphones.




					www.mobilefun.co.uk


----------



## pesh (Oct 21, 2020)

or £15 for a Huawei one





						Accessories - HUAWEI UK
					

Explore Huawei Accessories and find the best earphones, blue tooth speaker, power bank, car charger, 360 camera, smart scale ... Buy and get support from HUAWEI.




					consumer.huawei.com


----------



## platinumsage (Oct 21, 2020)

Even the Samsung one is 99p more expensive









						Official Samsung USB Type C to 3.5mm headphone Jack Adapter - EE-UC10JUWEGWW
					

Buy Official Samsung USB Type C to 3.5mm headphone Jack Adapter - EE-UC10JUWEGWW at the lowest price in United Kingdom. Check reviews and buy Official Samsung USB Type C to 3.5mm headphone Jack Adapter - EE-UC10JUWEGWW today.




					www.uk-mobilestore.co.uk
				




Why are Apple accessories so cheap?


----------



## editor (Oct 21, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yeah. Perhaps people would be better off paying 13 quid for a Samsung one instead.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or the Huawei one for nearly a third of the price from Amazon rather than 'mobilefun'   
Are you REALLY going to argue that Apple accessories are cheaper than the alternatives?






						Huawei USB-C to 3.5 mm Earphone: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
					

Free delivery and returns on eligible orders. Buy Huawei USB-C to 3.5 mm Earphone/Headphone Audio Jack Adapter - White at Amazon UK.



					www.amazon.co.uk
				







platinumsage said:


> Even the Samsung one is 99p more expensive
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's actually a quid cheaper (or £7.99 from the same site), but being Android there's plenty of much cheaper alternatives.






						Samsung USB-C Headset Jack Adapter - Official Samsung: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics
					

Shop Samsung USB-C Headset Jack Adapter - Official Samsung Headphones Adaptor/ Type C/ USB-C to 3.5mm Headphone Adaptor - White, EE-UC10JUWEGWW. Free delivery and returns on eligible orders.



					www.amazon.co.uk


----------



## sim667 (Oct 21, 2020)

Less than 3 quid on eBay for a lighting adapter on eBay








						3.5mm Lightning To Earphone Jack Audio AUX Adapter Cable For iPhone 7 8 X XS XR | eBay
					

Find great deals for 3.5mm Lightning To Earphone Jack Audio AUX Adapter Cable For iPhone 7 8 X XS XR. Shop with confidence on eBay!



					www.ebay.co.uk
				




Selective searching isn't really a rationale to try and argue something is more or less expensive than something else. Actually, it's just a bit childish. We all know cables and adapters can be dirt cheap for all products if you can just be bothered to have a proper look.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 21, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> ooh yeah ta no worries if not - i'm sure they aren't too pricey - how does it work? through the usb?



I bought this one, it's not going to break like the one Apple made.






						Qingfei Car Aux Cable for iPhone 8, Aux lead for Phone X 3.5mm Headphones adapter for Phone 7, Supports IOS 11 or Later (Black): Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo
					

Free delivery and returns on eligible orders. Buy Qingfei Car Aux Cable for iPhone 8, Aux lead for Phone X 3.5mm Headphones adapter for Phone 7, Supports IOS 11 or Later (Black) at Amazon UK.



					www.amazon.co.uk


----------



## editor (Oct 21, 2020)

sim667 said:


> Less than 3 quid on eBay for a lighting adapter on eBay
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But Apple accessories are notoriously, sometimes laughably, overpriced - or have you forgotten the £949 monitor stand and the £699 price tag for four little wheels?


----------



## pesh (Oct 21, 2020)




----------



## sim667 (Oct 24, 2020)

editor said:


> But Apple accessories are notoriously, sometimes laughably, overpriced - or have you forgotten the £949 monitor stand and the £699 price tag for four little wheels?


It’s not a compulsory requirement to buy apple branded accessories. I’ve had a lot of apple products throughout the years, since I got my first PowerBook G4 in 2005 ish. The only apple accessorie I’ve ever bought was a wireless keyboard for my Mac Pro in 2008, I still use it and I still use the Mac Pro.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 24, 2020)

Anyway on another note I’ve got my new phone and case (it’s not an apple case, it cost £16 and is a complete cover case), the phone is lighting fast compared to my 8. Really liking it.


----------



## donkyboy (Oct 27, 2020)

I'm really tempted to buy the iphone 12. red version. always have had andriod and thinking of finally trying iphone.  just the phone outright rather than contract


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2020)

£22 for a set of fucking iPhone icons 















						Designer makes £77,000 from iPhone icons in a week
					

A viral tweet showcasing an iPhone homescreen design was an overnight hit for designer Traf.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 27, 2020)

editor said:


> £22 for a set of fucking iPhone icons
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Good for him, if people are fucking daft enough to fork out for them!


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 27, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Good for him, if people are fucking daft enough to fork out for them!


I agree. There's nothing I like to see more than an Apple fanboy getting fleeced.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Good for him, if people are fucking daft enough to fork out for them!


Yeah! Let's applaud this full on capitalist, grabbing as much cash as he can for himself and maybe doing his little bit to inflate prices for everyone else!

This is what Thatcher would have loved!  🎉🎉🎉🎉


----------



## donkyboy (Oct 28, 2020)

Who actually got their hands on one and what are the thoughts?


----------



## sim667 (Oct 29, 2020)

donkyboy said:


> Who actually got their hands on one and what are the thoughts?


Very happy with mine, it’s lightning fast and a huge upgrade on my old phone. WhatsApp seems a bit wobbly on it but I suspect they’ll upgrade the app soon to fix that.


----------



## Sunray (Oct 29, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Good for him, if people are fucking daft enough to fork out for them!


Pricing stuff you sell is very hard.  If its really nice, and people think its £22 nice well done.


----------



## donkyboy (Nov 4, 2020)

having fought about it. I think I'll stick with my pixel 3xl and wait for the iphone 13. the camera isn't as impressive as I had hoped.  I will switch from andriod eventually and give ios a go at least once-eventually.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 12, 2020)

Looking to upgrade from the X to the 12 Pro Max - but wondering if there is there any point?
(initially wanted a better camera and battery - but are there any other disadvantages in having a huge arse phone?)


----------



## cybershot (Nov 12, 2020)

I’d try and get a look at a max first if you haven’t. It’s huge.


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 13, 2020)

We've got a Pro Max and Mini arriving this morning, the latter to replace my old SE first edition. I've totally been this excited for a new phone lots of times before.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Nov 13, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> We've got a Pro Max and Mini arriving this morning, the latter to replace my old SE first edition. I've totally been this excited for a new phone lots of times before.



Please report on the size of the pro max!!!


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 13, 2020)

Virtual Blue said:


> Please report on the size of the pro max!!!



It replaces an 8 Plus and it's basically the same size as that. Not for me which is why I got a mini. 

Currently getting used to FaceID and the lack of a home button.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 13, 2020)

Handled one earlier this week. I'm not really a fan of the return to straight edges if I'm honest, they feel sharp and harsh when handling without a case, and I just prefer the rounded smoother edges of the 11. It's a small moan but significant if that kind of thing bothers you.


----------



## Looby (Nov 14, 2020)

I’ve just ordered a 12 pro. My upgrade wasn’t due until April next year but I’ve got some tiny scratches on my screen that have been bugging me then I got a magical text from EE offering me early upgrade with a trade in. 😊 They’re not bothered about the scratches.

I’ll have to wait about a month though as the colour I wanted is out of stock.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 14, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Currently getting used to FaceID and the lack of a home button.



Same here, but the face ID works so well I was actually sceptical that it was locking at all. I had to get Kris to try and fail to use it to be convinced.

The one thing you can't fault Apple on is that everything just_ works _as it should.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 14, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> but the face ID works so well I was actually sceptical that it was locking at all.


Try it while wearing a face mask.😷🤬


----------



## donkyboy (Nov 14, 2020)

will be interesting to see if they add finger print reader for the 13 due to covid.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 15, 2020)

Inspired by Epona’s thread about exploding batteries, after about 4 years, yesterday I finally got around to upgrading our phones to 12 Pros from 7’s. Im not really into phones and would've happily kept the old ones if the thought of one catching fire didn’t bother me,  but these things are incredible bits of kit. The other reason I haven't upgraded sooner is because it was always a ballache having to transfer data to the cloud then piss about downloading it to the new phone. Last time i upgraded, the new one stayed unopened in the box for weeks because I couldn't be arsed with all that. This time though i just scanned a dot pattern on the old phone with the new one and that all got done automatically by magic. Took about 5 keystrokes and a 10 minute wait. Is that an Apple thing or do all phones do that now?

I was also pleasantly surprised to be offered £130 apiece for the old phones which was way more than I expected. You can even get a few quid for the empty boxes on eBay.

We don't have any other Apple stuff, not even Apple music as we use Amazon for that but as far as the phones are concerned, fucking hell! They're a bit pricey but if you want beautifully crafted kit that works perfectly and never fucks-up, they seem hard to beat.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 15, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> They're a bit pricey but if you want beautifully crafted kit that works perfectly and never fucks-up, they seem hard to beat.


and when they do fuck up you can drive to a physical store and get it sorted without drama. 

No mandatory requirement to mail your device for repair and wait weeks. 

The amazing customer service is part of why they cost so much.


----------



## sim667 (Nov 18, 2020)

Few weeks in, still very happy with mine, its also my first phone with a full front screen rather than with a button at the bottom, and I like that. Audio quality on the speakers is far better than my previous phone, screen is much nicer, sure unlocking with face when wearing a mask can be a bit annoying but I'm not going to cry about it. Its also drastically improved conversations with GP's at work when I call them, who are no longer getting wound up they can't always hear me straight away and I have to call back.

Did get the 130 quid for my old phone. I reckon I could have got more with a private sale, but I didn't want to mug someone off with a battery which was at 78%...... So at least this way it gets a refurb before being sold on.


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 19, 2020)

First time playing with the 12's camera at night.

I never thought I'd be able to photograph the Pleiades by casually holding the phone in my hand while stood next to floodlights. 

Will go somewhere dark tonight with clear skies and experiment a bit.


----------



## T & P (Nov 23, 2020)

The new iPad Air is finally available to pick up in the UK. Will be buying one this week. Our iPad is a good 6-7 years old and slow as fuck, and software updates haven’t even been available for years now, so an upgrade is well overdue.

This beast is the first to feature the new super duper A-14 chip- not that we’re likely to need the extra performance and speed for browsing the internet and playing escape room games.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 23, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> First time playing with the 12's camera at night.
> 
> I never thought I'd be able to photograph the Pleiades by casually holding the phone in my hand while stood next to floodlights.
> 
> ...


Why does that house have a weird periscope coming out of the window?


----------



## nick (Nov 23, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Why does that house have a weird periscope coming out of the window?


Meth lab?


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 23, 2020)

Wow you can extend the exposure time to 25 seconds.

This is a hand-held shot of The Plough. I could see about six stars with the naked eye.


----------



## platinumsage (Nov 23, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Why does that house have a weird periscope coming out of the window?



It’s not a house but a bodged laboratory.


----------



## editor (Nov 23, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> It’s not a house but a bodged laboratory.


Meth Lab?


----------



## nick (Nov 24, 2020)

editor said:


> Meth Lab?



And they say that the internet is like an echo chamber !  ;-)


----------



## Marty1 (Nov 24, 2020)

Top pic taken on my iPhone XS Max:



Bottom photo taken on gf’s iPhone 12 pro max:



Taken other comparison pics which don’t show much of a difference tho.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Nov 24, 2020)

*Apple Confirms Serious New Problems For iPhone 12 Users*
According to an internal apple document obtained by MacRumors, Apple has acknowledged that iPhone 12 models are suffering from significant display issues, including flickering, green and gray glowing and a variety of other lighting problems. 

Interestingly, despite users posting some extreme examples of their discolored iPhone 12 displays, Apple’s internal document told Authorized Service Providers “to avoid servicing affected iPhones"

Apple Confirms Serious New Problems For iPhone 12 Users


----------



## neonwilderness (Nov 25, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> The one thing you can't fault Apple on is that everything just_ works _as it should.


I've recently acquired a Samsung Galaxy as a work phone and can attest to this 

I would have had another iPhone (or upgraded my personal one to one that supports dual sims) if I'd been given the choice


----------



## cybershot (Nov 26, 2020)

AirPods are in Aldi from tomorrow. Well. Online only. Don’t know if others will price match. Does t say if they are the charging case version. Probably not at this price.


----------



## T & P (Nov 26, 2020)

Picked up my new iPad Air. Orders of magnitude nicer, lighte, clearer and faster than our old one, though you wouldn’t expect any different given it’s ancient by comparison

Unlikely to ever use it for processor-hungry tasks or graphics so l’ll probably won’t get the most of its chip, but I’m sure it will pay off with some games. And the screen resolution is bloody incredible


----------



## 8ball (Nov 26, 2020)

T & P said:


> Picked up my new iPad Air. Orders of magnitude nicer, lighte, clearer and faster than our old one, though you wouldn’t expect any different given it’s ancient by comparison
> 
> Unlikely to ever use it for processor-hungry tasks or graphics so l’ll probably won’t get the most of its chip, but I’m sure it will pay off with some games. And the screen resolution is bloody incredible



I could do with a new IPad.  The annoying thing is that they don’t number them in a simple way like they used to, so it’s harder to tell which version you’re looking at.


----------



## Sunray (Nov 26, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> ..... I couldn't be arsed with all that. This time though i just scanned a dot pattern on the old phone with the new one and that all got done automatically by magic. Took about 5 keystrokes and a 10 minute wait. Is that an Apple thing or do all phones do that now?.....



Yes, I was super impressed with this when popped up on my iPhone 6->iPhone X upgrade.  Its just a part of iOS now, super amazing.  
The only thing it doesn't do is transfer the app executable over. Just installs the icon and gets iOS to download each app, which can take a while.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Dec 7, 2020)

Bought the Pro Max 12 - and it's not that big and can operate most things on one hand. 






Bought a Magsafe charger - what a fucking waste of money.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 8, 2020)

Apple introduces AirPods Max, the magic of AirPods in a stunning over-ear design
					

Apple today announced AirPods Max, innovative wireless headphones that bring the magic of AirPods to an over-ear design with high-fidelity audio.



					www.apple.com
				




£549  






But damn, they look rather good in that blue colour


----------



## editor (Dec 8, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Apple introduces AirPods Max, the magic of AirPods in a stunning over-ear design
> 
> 
> Apple today announced AirPods Max, innovative wireless headphones that bring the magic of AirPods to an over-ear design with high-fidelity audio.
> ...


I remember when you used to take the piss out of 'audiophiles' spunking ridiculous amounts of money for components. 

But stick an Apple logo on it and make it a pretty blue colour and suddenly it's the stuff of your dreams.   😂


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 8, 2020)

editor said:


> I remember when you used to take the piss out of 'audiophiles' spunking ridiculous amounts of money for components.
> 
> But stick an Apple logo on it and make it a pretty blue colour and suddenly it's the stuff of your dreams.   😂


God no, I’ll stick with my custom moulded, 10 (!) drivers per side IEM’s from JH Audio, which were a snip at £1.5K thank you very much  

These _are_ rather beautiful looking though, and will no doubt sound pretty good. But that price is somewhat bonkers, even by Apple standards. £300 would have been the right ballpark.


----------



## platinumsage (Dec 9, 2020)

I wondered what people would use the lidar for.









						iPhone helps me navigate the street without sight
					

Blind reporter Lucy Edwards tests the iPhone 12 which can detect the distance of people and objects.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## sim667 (Dec 9, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> I wondered what people would use the lidar for.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thats actually quite a cool use for the tech.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 10, 2020)

Picked up a 12 Pro this afternoon as the Birmingham Apple Store had some in stock.

I'll be honest, and I appear to be in the minority. I think it looks cheap. Well, the back certainly does. The way the back is mounted just gives it the appearance as if I've stuck a shitty screen protector on it. Luckily I'll be putting a case on it so I won't have the look at that hideousness anyway as otherwise I would probably have seriously thought about returning it. £999 at it looks shit. Some of you might think I'm doing satire here due to generally being more favourable to Apple, but i'm deadly serious. It looks cheap and shit. Not impressed.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 10, 2020)

It probably doesn’t show up well in pictures. From what I can see this is how they are. I genuinely thought I’d been given a dud.

that gap between the edge and the inner. Looks shit. I just want to get my nails under it and peel it off.


----------



## strung out (Dec 10, 2020)

cybershot said:


> It probably doesn’t show up well in pictures. From what I can see this is how they are. I genuinely thought I’d been given a dud.
> 
> that gap between the edge and the inner. Looks shit. I just want to get my nails under it and peel it off.
> View attachment 242663


That's their new ceramic backing isn't it? I was pondering whether to upgrade from my 8 to a 12, but just bought a new iPad Air, so might wait a year for the 13.


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Picked up a 12 Pro this afternoon as the Birmingham Apple Store had some in stock.
> 
> I'll be honest, and I appear to be in the minority. I think it looks cheap. Well, the back certainly does. The way the back is mounted just gives it the appearance as if I've stuck a shitty screen protector on it. Luckily I'll be putting a case on it so I won't have the look at that hideousness anyway as otherwise I would probably have seriously thought about returning it. £999 at it looks shit. Some of you might think I'm doing satire here due to generally being more favourable to Apple, but i'm deadly serious. It looks cheap and shit. Not impressed.


For a grand I'd expect nothing short of perfection, particularly given that you could pick up a phone for half the price that would match it in every area and have a better camera. Which begs the question - why put up with it?


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> God no, I’ll stick with my custom moulded, 10 (!) drivers per side IEM’s from JH Audio, which were a snip at £1.5K thank you very much
> 
> These _are_ rather beautiful looking though, and will no doubt sound pretty good. But that price is *somewhat bonkers, even by Apple standards.* £300 would have been the right ballpark.



Are you sure?









						Apple Mac Pro Wheels Kit
					

Put your Mac Pro on wheels with the Mac Pro Wheels Kit. The custom-designed stainless steel and rubber wheels make it easy to move your Mac Pro around, whether sliding it out from under your desk or across your studio.



					www.apple.com


----------



## sim667 (Dec 10, 2020)

I thought my iPhone 12 looked really nicely designed and manufactured tbqh


----------



## Dr. Furface (Dec 10, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Picked up a 12 Pro this afternoon as the Birmingham Apple Store had some in stock.
> 
> I'll be honest, and I appear to be in the minority. I think it looks cheap. Well, the back certainly does. The way the back is mounted just gives it the appearance as if I've stuck a shitty screen protector on it. Luckily I'll be putting a case on it so I won't have the look at that hideousness anyway as otherwise I would probably have seriously thought about returning it. £999 at it looks shit. Some of you might think I'm doing satire here due to generally being more favourable to Apple, but i'm deadly serious. It looks cheap and shit. Not impressed.



Fuck me, I though I was picky! And I am, but I think mine (same model) looks absolutely fine, just great actually. Still, it's just a matter of opinion and if you've only just bought it you've got 14 days to return it and get your money back if you hate it that much.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 10, 2020)

cybershot said:


> It probably doesn’t show up well in pictures. From what I can see this is how they are. I genuinely thought I’d been given a dud.
> 
> that gap between the edge and the inner. Looks shit. I just want to get my nails under it and peel it off.
> View attachment 242663



I'd have gone with the blue one, think it looks great.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 10, 2020)

editor said:


> For a grand I'd expect nothing short of perfection, particularly given that you could pick up a phone for half the price that would match it in every area and have a better camera. Which begs the question - why put up with it?



Yep, for a grand it should be flush, no dinky edge lips. Compared to my iPhone X which still looks and feels great in the hand, this feels like a backwards step. I'll put up with it because I'll never look at the back if it anyway once it goes in a case as i prefer the wallet style cases to protect it all round should I drop it.


----------



## platinumsage (Dec 10, 2020)

The good thing about iPhones is that you can go to one of their shops if you suspect it has a defect, and then you can compare it to other handsets and get it replaced there's a problem.

Trying doing that with a Xaoimi or a Google


----------



## editor (Dec 10, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> The good thing about iPhones is that you can go to one of their shops if you suspect it has a defect, and then you can compare it to other handsets and get it replaced there's a problem.
> 
> Trying doing that with a Xaoimi or a Google


Only if you happen to live close to an Apple store, of course. And want to spend time hanging around a 'genius bar.'


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 10, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> The good thing about iPhones is that you can go to one of their shops if you suspect it has a defect, and then you can compare it to other handsets and get it replaced there's a problem.
> 
> Trying doing that with a Xaoimi or a Google


That's the good thing about Xiaomi, they don't have defects. I prefer my phones that way.


----------



## Sunray (Dec 12, 2020)

editor said:


> Only if you happen to live close to an Apple store, of course. And want to spend time hanging around a 'genius bar.'


They also collect, fix and then return if you don't want to go to a shop. Fitted a new battery on my Mum's 2nd hand iPhone 7 I got off ebay, I knew it might need a new battery.  
I think it went to Croatia where a new battery was fitted and back again in 4 days. Got a text at every stage of the process.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 12, 2020)

Got my old iPhone X booked in for battery replacement on Monday (no appointments on day I picked up 12 pro) hoping they are still speedy and turn it around within the hour.

then to hand it down to mother. Such a nice son I am.


----------



## cybershot (Dec 13, 2020)

Bargain.



> but the backs feature an authentic fragment of Jobs' original famous turtleneck embedded in the Apple logo











						Caviar Launches $6,000+ Custom iPhone 12 Pro With Fragment of Steve Jobs' Original Turtleneck Embedded in Apple Logo
					

Caviar, a site known for creating extravagant, expensive replacement casings for Apple's iPhone models, today announced the launch of its latest...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 13, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Bargain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## cybershot (Dec 15, 2020)

Older iPhones now support Covid exposure notifications with a software update.








						Apple releases iOS 12.5 for older iPhones with support for COVID-19 exposure notifications
					

Apple has released iOS 12.5 for older iPhone models today, bringing support for COVID-19 exposure notifications. This is a major change as it expands contact tracing to iPhones that don’t support iOS 14, including devices like the massively popular iPhone 6 series. Here’s what Apple says about...




					9to5mac.com


----------



## cybershot (Dec 15, 2020)

ProRaw is here! — Travel Photographer - Austin Mann
					

Today Apple officially released their new image format for creative professionals, Apple ProRAW. It marks a monumental leap forward in digital imaging on iPhone and I can’t wait to share a bit more about it.  I’ll cover why ProRAW matters, how to shoot ProRAW, and some of the best tools and apps for




					austinmann.com


----------



## teuchter (Dec 15, 2020)

cybershot said:


> ProRaw is here! — Travel Photographer - Austin Mann
> 
> 
> Today Apple officially released their new image format for creative professionals, Apple ProRAW. It marks a monumental leap forward in digital imaging on iPhone and I can’t wait to share a bit more about it.  I’ll cover why ProRAW matters, how to shoot ProRAW, and some of the best tools and apps for
> ...


That's interesting; I hope it prompts other phone makers into being more consistent in offering an option for RAW output.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Dec 16, 2020)

teuchter said:


> That's interesting; I hope it prompts other phone makers into being more consistent in offering an option for RAW output.


Interestingly, this has been available on most Android phones for about 5 or 6 years.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2020)

Apple doing that think differently thing



			Bloomberg - Are you a robot?


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> Interestingly, this has been available on most Android phones for about 5 or 6 years.


On my current one it isn't. On my previous one it was.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 16, 2020)

editor said:


> Apple doing that think differently thing
> 
> 
> 
> Bloomberg - Are you a robot?



Clearly they don't want to have all their eggs in the China/Foxconn basket what with all the security implications, IP thievery, human rights issues, and presumably an increasingly costly workforce.

India would seem to solve much of that but with less state controls, a less subservient workforce and potential for violence and demos like this.

Must be tough weighing up how best to exploit global human labour costs while maintaining an orderly output of iStuff.


----------



## pesh (Dec 16, 2020)

cybershot said:


> ProRaw is here! — Travel Photographer - Austin Mann
> 
> 
> Today Apple officially released their new image format for creative professionals, Apple ProRAW. It marks a monumental leap forward in digital imaging on iPhone and I can’t wait to share a bit more about it.  I’ll cover why ProRAW matters, how to shoot ProRAW, and some of the best tools and apps for
> ...


anyone claiming to be a 'creative professional' and shooting on a smartphone is a bit of an arsehole IMHO


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 16, 2020)

teuchter said:


> On my current one it isn't. On my previous one it was.



I guess if it's important to you it's not hard to find one that does when choosing which one to buy as plenty do.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 16, 2020)

pesh said:


> anyone claiming to be a 'creative professional' and shooting on a smartphone is a bit of an arsehole IMHO


I take it you haven’t seen Tangerine


----------



## teuchter (Dec 16, 2020)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I guess if it's important to you it's not hard to find one that does when choosing which one to buy as plenty do.


It's something I look for when choosing a phone, and my experience is that quite a few phones that have decent cameras (and are marketed as such) don't have it. On some you can access it in the stock camera, in some you have to use a 3rd party camera app, and some you can't access it at all.

In addition, it's rarely stated in the basic specs for the phone and often isn't discussed in reviews, and it can be a pain trying to find out whether it's there or not. All of this suggests that it's very much a minority interest, or the phone makers think it is. This is why it's interesting that Apple - the most mainstream of mainstream phone makers - are now positively presenting it as a feature, and why I hope it might prompt others to change their approach.


----------



## pesh (Dec 16, 2020)

Orang Utan said:


> I take it you haven’t seen Tangerine


downloaded it but still not got round to watching it, no... and yeah, a mates just finished shooting a feature film on an iphone 11, it wasn't his choice of camera...


----------



## cybershot (Dec 16, 2020)

teuchter said:


> It's something I look for when choosing a phone, and my experience is that quite a few phones that have decent cameras (and are marketed as such) don't have it. On some you can access it in the stock camera, in some you have to use a 3rd party camera app, and some you can't access it at all.
> 
> In addition, it's rarely stated in the basic specs for the phone and often isn't discussed in reviews, and it can be a pain trying to find out whether it's there or not. All of this suggests that it's very much a minority interest, or the phone makers think it is. This is why it's interesting that Apple - the most mainstream of mainstream phone makers - are now positively presenting it as a feature, and why I hope it might prompt others to change their approach.



if say in the last 3 years the only selling points have been camera improvements. Most of the big companies all push their camera tech in adverts and reviews usually go into detail about the camera. Agree the general review might not go into full tech camera specs as they will be reviewing the phone as a general everyday user but there’s usually specialist reviews. Also not helped obviously by stuff like this not being available at launch which means every review of the iPhone 12 Pro that’s already out there won’t even discuss this or will just breeze over it saying it’s a coming soon feature.

Oh and 5G but no one can realistically use that at the moment.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Clearly they don't want to have all their eggs in the China/Foxconn basket what with all the security implications, IP thievery, human rights issues, and presumably an increasingly costly workforce.



Bingo. An economic and moral drive to reduce dependence on China whilst some on here persist in comparing Apple products unfavourably to the likes of Huawei and Xaomi genocide-supporter's phones. 

Hugely sensible.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2020)

skyscraper101 said:


> Clearly they don't want to have all their eggs in the China/Foxconn basket what with all the security implications, IP thievery, human rights issues, and presumably an increasingly costly workforce.
> 
> India would seem to solve much of that but with less state controls, a less subservient workforce and potential for violence and demos like this.
> 
> Must be tough weighing up how best to exploit global human labour costs while maintaining an orderly output of iStuff.


But those enormous, record breaking fat profits keep rolling in either way!


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2020)

Always a tricky stance to insist that your particular luxury phone is somehow more ethically pure than others, particularly when they use the same parts, materials and labour as the ones you're damning from your lofty perch.










						Apple accused of ignoring supplier labor law breaches in China
					

A new report says Apple may have ignored breaches in labor laws by its suppliers in factories in China, pertaining to the use of temporary workers.




					www.imore.com
				












						From Apple to Huawei: profit comes before workers' rights
					

Updated rating of the 10 IT firms with the biggest market share in Switzerland: The new market giant Huawei and HTC still have much to do.




					goodelectronics.org
				












						A hostage situation: Why Apple won't address its unethical supply chain
					

Manufacturing company Apple faces a deep-seated problem: human rights, environmental and ethical problems persist inside Apple’s vast global supply chains.




					www.smartcompany.com.au


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## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Bingo. An economic and moral drive to reduce dependence on China whilst some on here persist in comparing Apple products unfavourably to the likes of Huawei and Xaomi genocide-supporter's phones.
> 
> Hugely sensible.


The main point obviously being that Apple is moving _away_ from reliance on China and has never been hand-in-glove with the filthy murderous regime in the same way that Hauwei and Xioami are.

But hey! Who cares about IP theft, industrial espionage that would make your toes curl, torture and current day genocide, when you can buy a nice cheap phone with a super-dooper camera?


----------



## pesh (Dec 16, 2020)

Surely Foxconn / Apple is worse because they've chosen to get in bed with the filthy murderous regime rather than just being spawned by it?


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## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

pesh said:


> Surely Foxconn / Apple is worse because they've chosen to get in bed with the filthy murderous regime rather than just being spawned by it?


They didn't though. They chose to exploit the cheap labour, like everyone else. Now that the full extent of the evilness of the regime is becoming more and more widely known they, along with many other halfway ethical businesses, are looking to reduce their reliance on the country. Conversely, some posters here choose to support the Chinese regime _almost directly _by purchasing or promoting products which they know full well are highly suspect, but that doesn't matter because they are cheap and have good cameras. Basically it's a big "fuck you victims of the Chinese regime. We're ok with our cheap tech. So there!"

They should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.


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## pesh (Dec 16, 2020)

pumping vast sums of money into the Chinese regime isn't supporting it?


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## platinumsage (Dec 16, 2020)

There are plenty of non-Chinese phones, LG make loads. 

Why anyone would buy a Huawei I’ve no idea.


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## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

pesh said:


> pumping vast sums of money into the Chinese regime isn't supporting it?


No, not directly, certainly not in the same way that Chinese tech firms do. And remember, we're comparing companies who are actively seeking to reduce their use of China, to those that never will, and some who are arguably actually _part_ of the regime in question.


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## editor (Dec 16, 2020)

pesh said:


> Surely Foxconn / Apple is worse because they've chosen to get in bed with the filthy murderous regime rather than just being spawned by it?


You'd think the most valuable company in the world would be willing to use their vast resources to lead by example, but their hands are covered in blood and exploitation and anyone trying to claim some sort of high moral ground from buying such luxury products is living in a world of delusion.

The facts:


> *Is Apple ethical?*
> Our research highlights several ethical issues with Apple, including climate change, environmental reporting, habitats & resources, pollution and toxics, arms & military supply, human rights, workers' rights, supply chain management, irresponsible marketing, anti-social finance, and political activities.





> *People*
> 
> In December 2019 a Guardian article named Apple as defendants in a lawsuit filed in Washington DC by human rights firm International Rights Advocates on behalf of 14 parents and children from the Democratic Republic of the Congo (DRC). Other defendants in this lawsuit included Google, Dell, Microsoft and Tesla.
> 
> ...


And how filthy rich are they? 



> *1. Economies of Entire Countries*
> Global GDP was $85.9 trillion in 2018, per the latest data from the World Bank, and Apple's market cap is 1.5% of that figure. Compared to the U.S., the world's largest economy with GDP of $20.5 trillion in 2018, Apple's market cap represents 6.3%.2
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

platinumsage said:


> Why anyone would buy a Huawei I’ve no idea.


Cheap phones with good cameras. That's all that matters to some folk. Shameful stuff.


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## pesh (Dec 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> No, not directly, certainly not in the same way that Chinese tech firms do. And remember, we're comparing companies who are actively seeking to reduce their use of China, to those that never will, and some who are arguably actually _part_ of the regime in question.


How is Apples move to India going? last i heard no one had been paid and the factory had been destroyed.
Are Billy McFarland and Ja Rule in charge?


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## peterkro (Dec 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> They didn't though. They chose to exploit the cheap labour, like everyone else. Now that the full extent of the evilness of the regime is becoming more and more widely known they, along with many other halfway ethical businesses, are looking to reduce their reliance on the country. Conversely, some posters here choose to support the Chinese regime _almost directly _by purchasing or promoting products which they know full well are highly suspect, but that doesn't matter because they are cheap and have good cameras. Basically it's a big "fuck you victims of the Chinese regime. We're ok with our cheap tech. So there!"
> 
> They should be thoroughly ashamed of themselves.


First off I should say I abhor the Chinese state and all it stands for. Nevertheless it's a bit galling to hear accusations of IP theft especially from governments such as the U.S. whose wealth not only came from slavery but the wholesale theft of IP. Now that other countries are trying to develop using the same methods they are hauling up the ladder so no one else can use it. The same applies to the environment, the U.S. and Western Europe plundered and burnt much of the world for nearly 200 years now it's all China/India etc are major polluters and must be stopped, again pulling the ladder they used up so no one else can use it.

Personally I don't care about where the capitalist is that's exploiting me, it's the fact of the exploitation that's the problem.
There are very many sources about U.S, theft of IP  and after Snowden if you don't think they are still up to their necks in it you are sadly misinformed:










						In trade wars of 200 years ago, the pirates were Americans
					

WASHINGTON (AP) — The upstart nation was a den of intellectual piracy. One of its top officials urged his countrymen to steal and copy foreign machinery. Across the ocean, a leading industrial power tried in vain to guard its trade secrets from the brash young rival...




					apnews.com


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## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

pesh said:


> How is Apples move to India going? last i heard no one had been paid and the factory had been destroyed.


Not as well as one would hope clearly, hopefully they'll improve there.

How's the Uighur genocide and mass torture, detainment and execution of dissidents going?


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## pesh (Dec 16, 2020)

very badly. we should'nt give them any money.


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## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

pesh said:


> very badly. we should'nt give them any money.


Agreed, so far as possible. But for some those cheap prices and natty cameras are just too good to resist.


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## pesh (Dec 16, 2020)

agreed, as are the expensive ones with natty cameras sadly.


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## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

pesh said:


> agreed, as are the expensive ones with natty cameras sadly.


Fortunately, if you don't want to use Apple products, other non-Chinese options are available, as Plaitinumsage points out. I don't expect they'll satisfy the more hypocritically ostrich-like, genocide-supporting, tech enthusiasts amongst us though.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 16, 2020)

Googled LG human rights abuses. They seem an equally lovely bunch.


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## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

Here we go. This is where all the murder-phone punters start screaming "they're all as bad as each other!" and go frantically Googling for Apple and other manufacturer's vagaries.   

They really_ aren't _all as bad as each other, you know.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Here we go. This is where all the murder-phone punters start screaming "they're all as bad as each other!" and go frantically Googling for Apple and other manufacturer's vagaries.
> 
> They really_ aren't _all as bad as each other, you know.


I think you can assume a base level of arseholery from all of them. There’s then varying degrees of cuntitude on top.


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## peterkro (Dec 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Here we go. This is where all the murder-phone punters start screaming "they're all as bad as each other!" and go frantically Googling for Apple and other manufacturer's vagaries.
> 
> They really_ aren't _all as bad as each other, you know.


Yes they fucking are including the "small business embedded in the community"  bollocks.


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## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I think you can assume a base level of arseholery from all of them. There’s then varying degrees of cuntitude on top.


The thing is, there's plenty to be critical about Apple, indeed all large corporates, particularly in the tech world. The trouble is the most vocal critics on here attack the wrong things for the wrong reasons and in their haste, have to overlook some glaring troubles in their own back yards. It's hilarious how easily you can guarantee their attendence on a thread with a few well chosen criticisms.


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## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

peterkro said:


> Yes they fucking are including the "small business embedded in the community"  bollocks.


If you really think that, you need to go and sit with the others in the dunce's corner.


----------



## peterkro (Dec 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> If you really think that, you need to go and sit with the others in the dunce's corner.


Stunning comeback.


----------



## pesh (Dec 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> the most vocal critics on here attack the wrong things for the wrong reasons and in their haste, have to overlook some glaring troubles in their own back yards.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

peterkro said:


> Stunning comeback.


Cheers. Stunning silliness deserves a stunning response!


----------



## peterkro (Dec 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Cheers. Stunning silliness deserves a stunning response!


Yes definitely a cunning stunt.


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## teuchter (Dec 16, 2020)

Can someone post a graph which shows how bad each company is compared to the others, please? I will then use it to compare when buying my next phone. For example if Apple is 10% better than LG, but LG's camera is 11% better than Apple's, then LG actually represents the most ethical choice when you measure ethical goodness per consumer benefit unit, which is the only way to do it meaningfully, otherwise the only non-hypocritical stance would be to not own a phone at all.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2020)

peterkro said:


> First off I should say I abhor the Chinese state and all it stands for. Nevertheless it's a bit galling to hear accusations of IP theft especially from governments such as the U.S. whose wealth not only came from slavery but the wholesale theft of IP. Now that other countries are trying to develop using the same methods they are hauling up the ladder so no one else can use it. The same applies to the environment, the U.S. and Western Europe plundered and burnt much of the world for nearly 200 years now it's all China/India etc are major polluters and must be stopped, again pulling the ladder they used up so no one else can use it.
> 
> Personally I don't care about where the capitalist is that's exploiting me, it's the fact of the exploitation that's the problem.
> There are very many sources about U.S, theft of IP  and after Snowden if you don't think they are still up to their necks in it you are sadly misinformed:
> ...


Indeed. The selective recall and hypocrisy shown by people keen to defend their particular brand of luxury smartphone is quite hilarious, as is people defending the richest and most exploitative tech company in the world. The very company who have the means to lead by example and improve the lives of millions of workers across the world, but chose to defend their obscene profits instead.

All of the mainstream tech companies are fucking cunts, happy to use components created out of misery, and we're all guilty of overlooking that to own a phone.

If you've got a nice shiny smartphone and you're trying to claim some kind of higher ground because of the particular mega-corp on the case, you're really quite deluded.


----------



## editor (Dec 16, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I think you can assume a base level of arseholery from all of them. There’s then varying degrees of cuntitude on top.


They all use the same  materials, some of which are produced through horrific exploitation.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Can someone post a graph which shows how bad each company is compared to the others, please?


I think the actual tech is probably much of a much easier. Few will actually have difficulty with the moral standpoint of Chinese tech v non-Chinese tech. That’s obvious but these boards have always had a section of people masquerading as tech experts who in reality are quite ignorant of tech issues.


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## Saul Goodman (Dec 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Cheap phones with good cameras. That's all that matters to some folk. Shameful stuff.


It's certainly all that matters to me. Out of sight, out of mind. I just pretend my phone came from the postman, and I can absolve myself of all guilt with a trip to church on Sunday.


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## Spymaster (Dec 16, 2020)

Saul Goodman said:


> It's certainly all that matters to me. Out of sight, out of mind. I just pretend my phone came from the postman, and I can absolve myself of all guilt with a trip to church on Sunday.


At least you're honest about it.


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## Saul Goodman (Dec 16, 2020)

cybershot said:


> Oh and 5G but no one can realistically use that at the moment.


Those of us in the developed world can


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## Saul Goodman (Dec 16, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> At least you're honest about it.


I see no point in trying to argue that my phone manufacturer is in any way ethical. I've owned Xiaomi phones for years, and they're Chinese. All big Chinese companies are utter cunts*, but I want a nice phone with a nice camera, and I want it for less than £500, so I'm kinda stuck with Xiaomi. I know what I'm doing is wrong but I couldn't give a sufficiently large fuck to change my ways.


*citation needed.


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## Sunray (Dec 16, 2020)

cybershot said:


> <snip>.....
> 
> Oh and 5G but no one can realistically use that at the moment.



My boss got a new 5G phone and though it's a good idea to post his 256Mbs/18Mbs 5G speed test.
Out of curiosity I tested 4G in my room on my (now three-year-old) iPhone X and got 100Mbs/34Mbs which is considerably more than my Zen Internet broadband connection.
Is anyone really going to notice 5G given the 4G speeds?


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## sim667 (Dec 30, 2020)

Sunray said:


> My boss got a new 5G phone and though it's a good idea to post his 256Mbs/18Mbs 5G speed test.
> Out of curiosity I tested 4G in my room on my (now three-year-old) iPhone X and got 100Mbs/34Mbs which is considerably more than my Zen Internet broadband connection.
> Is anyone really going to notice 5G given the 4G speeds?


I’ve not had upload as fast as 18 mbs, but I’ve had faster downloads than 256 mbs


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## Winot (Feb 19, 2021)

I have multiple email accounts on my iPhone (Exchange for work and gmail for personal plus iCloud and another IMAP one).

The email app has started saving drafts from the work account with the ‘from’ address being my personal address. If I don’t spot that the email ends up being sent from my personal account which is seriously annoying as it screws up the audit trail at work (and clients get my personal email).

Happens on iPad too. I’ve tested and it doesn’t happen with the iCloud and IMAP accounts only the Exchange account.

Had a root around in settings and spotted this which seems to be new:



Why the fuck have Apple done this and how can I turn it off?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 19, 2021)

Sunray said:


> My boss got a new 5G phone and though it's a good idea to post his 256Mbs/18Mbs 5G speed test.
> Out of curiosity I tested 4G in my room on my (now three-year-old) iPhone X and got 100Mbs/34Mbs which is considerably more than my Zen Internet broadband connection.
> Is anyone really going to notice 5G given the 4G speeds?



Yes. Some days mine posts 115 Mbs, which is a tad faster then my home connection.


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## cybershot (Mar 16, 2021)

Interesting report here regarding brand loyalty.



> Brand loyalty at an all-time high of 92% for Apple.
> 
> 26% of Samsung Users will Switch to another Phone Brand when they Upgrade











						Report: Brand loyalty at an all-time high of 92% for Apple as Android brands take a dive - SellCell.com Blog
					

As a follow up to our 2019 Cell Phone Brand Loyalty Survey, SellCell have surveyed 5000 phone users to find out who are the most loyal smartphone users in 2021 %




					www.sellcell.com


----------



## teuchter (Mar 16, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Interesting report here regarding brand loyalty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not all that surprising that people are more likely to switch between manufacturers using the same OS, than they are to switch to another manufacturer when it means also changing OS.


----------



## editor (Mar 16, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Interesting report here regarding brand loyalty.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It would be a story if people were switching from Android to Apple, but the availability of high quality and hugely competitive alternatives on Android is one of the platform's plus points.  I've got zero loyalty to my phone brand and will happily jump to a different maker if a better phone becomes available.

If you've already invested in Apple apps/accessories, it's a much bigger jump to move to a different brand/OS.


----------



## Supine (Apr 6, 2021)

So it turns out the 6s doesn't survive a full 40 degree cycle in the washing machine 

Just ordered an SE to replace it. What an annoying day


----------



## sim667 (Apr 8, 2021)

Winot said:


> I have multiple email accounts on my iPhone (Exchange for work and gmail for personal plus iCloud and another IMAP one).
> 
> The email app has started saving drafts from the work account with the ‘from’ address being my personal address. If I don’t spot that the email ends up being sent from my personal account which is seriously annoying as it screws up the audit trail at work (and clients get my personal email).
> 
> ...



I would never use my personal and work emails from the same client tbqfh. Setting up an exchange account in iOS allows your work to wipe your phone remotely, and if its a personal phone you don't want work having that control.


----------



## platinumsage (Apr 21, 2021)

Airtags are finally here:









						Apple introduces AirTag
					

Apple today introduced AirTag, an accessory that works with iPhone and other Apple devices to track and find important belongings.



					www.apple.com
				




I'll probably replace my Tile with one soon. Airtags seem superior with the ultra-wideband and utilizing over a billion devices to help location. Only downside seems to be they don't have a keyring hole, you have to buy a strap case, but I'm sure there will be some decent third-party solutions shortly.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 21, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Airtags are finally here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How precise are they? I mean, if it's more than 10 metres you might never get your lost keys back. Just crawling around in the street sort of near to them.


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## platinumsage (Apr 21, 2021)

Favelado said:


> How precise are they? I mean, if it's more than 10 metres you might never get your lost keys back. Just crawling around in the street sort of near to them.



Very, within centimeters. Apparently they will be useful for people who are totally blind.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 21, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Very, within centimeters. Apparently they will be useful for people who are totally blind.


Okay. I'll get one too then.


----------



## Favelado (Apr 23, 2021)

I've ordered some. Feel sorry for Tile, who've had their idea pilfered, but having these is going to fit with my other Apple bits and bring me some real peace of mind.


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## Favelado (Apr 23, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Very, within centimeters. Apparently they will be useful for people who are totally blind.



Clever how they switch to Bluetooth when you get within a certain range.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 23, 2021)

I can’t get my head around how hey work - would they be good for putting on a bike, as a way to track it if it got nicked?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 23, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> Airtags are finally here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Is it practicable to attach them to spectacles.  Because, man, that would change my life.


----------



## cybershot (Apr 24, 2021)

Just caught up with the Apple event stuff. Nothing of interest for me or anything that makes me want to upgrade.

Perhaps annoyingly as since I moved house in December I have a habit of putting my keys abe wallet down in places and then can’t find the damn things. The other week I spent 30+ minutes looking for my keys which had somehow ended up underneath my iPad (sounding like a right Apple cunt here) on the side. So I purchased some Nut tags as they were considerably cheaper than tile. I generally just lose things in the house than out in public so they do the job as use Bluetooth. No fancy harness the power of other users. And let’s be honest there’s LOTS of iPhones out there so will be interested to see some real world tests of these on YouTube as no doubt someone will play treasure hunt with them and expect their mate to find an object.



If the Apple tags had been available or I had known they were actually coming this time I may have held out. But the amount of times I’ve already had to call my wallet and keys it’s perhaps better for my sanity I got the nut tags when I did. The ping feature on the Apple Watch (yeah I know Apple cunt sorry not sorry) also gets used loads when I’ve put my phone down somewhere and can’t find it. Ringing it is never a solution as it’s always on silent. So as long as I don’t lose the watch (attached to my wrist got help me if I do) then now I can generally find my phone, keys and wallet sharpish and not be stomping around the house for 30 minutes. All a guy needs right!!!

The new Apple TV 4K doesn’t seem worth an upgrade. If anything if you’re in the market for one I’d say try and find the old one for a knocked down price if you can. Fantastic piece of kit. The new remote looks better but I don’t actually mind the old one.

Can’t believe the charging port for the new mice is still fucking on the bottom rendering it useless if you need to charge it.


----------



## cybershot (May 2, 2021)

In true Apple cunt form I must say finally being able to unlock my phone* with a mask on in iOS 14.5 is the first world problem I’ve wanted solved for a long time.

*requires a £400 Apple Watch (minimum series 4) to do. Which of course I have. Apple cunt.


----------



## magneze (May 2, 2021)

Just put in your PIN. If your mask restricts this then you're wearing it wrong.

There you go, saved £400 and the bother of charging a watch all the time. 🥷


----------



## cybershot (May 2, 2021)

PIN takes far too long when I’m then also scrambling to find the NHS app to scan into a venue. The pressure is so much I once almost dropped my £999 phone which could have smashed the screen.

My precious


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 2, 2021)

I just wish they’d allow express payment in shops like they do with travel on buses and tube and forego all this looking at the camera business.

I know there are security issues but just have a maximum transaction limit set up which resets every time the user re-authenticates. I bet 90% of my purchases are under £20 so setting a limit at say, £30 without having to unlock seems a fair compromise.


----------



## magneze (May 2, 2021)

Pay with a card? Survives drops too.

I'll get my coat. 👴


----------



## Orang Utan (May 2, 2021)

Find Apple Pay impossible to use at tills anyway. Only use it online


----------



## sim667 (May 2, 2021)

I've been waiting for the airtags to come out, as I've been wanting something like that for my keys and wallet.


----------



## editor (May 3, 2021)

sim667 said:


> I've been waiting for the airtags to come out, as I've been wanting something like that for my keys and wallet.


If only something had existed in the past before Apple changed everything. Oh, wait....


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 3, 2021)

magneze said:


> Just put in your PIN. If your mask restricts this then you're wearing it wrong.
> 
> There you go, saved £400 and the bother of charging a watch all the time. 🥷


Or set up a second/alternative face unlock ID whilst wearing a mask.


----------



## cybershot (May 3, 2021)

Apple Pay is great. Use all the time on web (don’t need to fill out any other shit. Double tap and it’s done!) and at tills. Rarely fails.


----------



## cybershot (May 3, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Or set up a second/alternative face unlock ID whilst wearing a mask.



doesn’t work. Tried it.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 3, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Find Apple Pay impossible to use at tills anyway. Only use it online


Double click a button. That’s it


----------



## Favelado (May 3, 2021)

I have an iPhone XR which doesn't support the Precision Finding that you get with iPhone 11 or 12. However, they do still support some form of Bluetooth tracking so presumably they can find your things with a few feet or something.

Does anyone know? I can cancel my order if they aren't going to be any use until I have a newer iPhone.


----------



## Favelado (May 3, 2021)

I cancelled. I liked the features as advertised and if I can't have that I don't want the AirTags.


----------



## cybershot (May 3, 2021)

Favelado said:


> I have an iPhone XR which doesn't support the Precision Finding that you get with iPhone 11 or 12. However, they do still support some form of Bluetooth tracking so presumably they can find your things with a few feet or something.
> 
> Does anyone know? I can cancel my order if they aren't going to be any use until I have a newer iPhone.



didn’t realise you needed that new an iPhone for that. I guess a lot of other people won’t realise either.  There’s a ton more < iPhone 11 out there than 11+

I’d say stupid decision.

Others will say encourages people to spend more on newer phones.

others Will say ensures longevity of the product in its current form for many years.


----------



## platinumsage (May 3, 2021)

The reason you need a newer phone for the best features is that older phones didn't have ultra-wideband, because it's a new technology. It's not like they couldn't be bothered to support older phones.

With an older phone it still works like a Tile with bluetooth, you just don't get the super-accurate distance and direction details that UWB can provide.


----------



## Favelado (May 3, 2021)

platinumsage said:


> The reason you need a newer phone for the best features is that older phones didn't have ultra-wideband, because it's a new technology. It's not like they couldn't be bothered to support older phones.
> 
> With an older phone it still works like a Tile with bluetooth, you just don't get the super-accurate distance and direction details that UWB can provide.


What kind of range do you reckon?


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 3, 2021)

cybershot said:


> doesn’t work. Tried it.


Try a mask with teeth.


----------



## sim667 (May 3, 2021)

editor said:


> If only something had existed in the past before Apple changed everything. Oh, wait....


Great…… but I wanted an airtag 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Sunray (May 18, 2021)

I use my iPad mini 4 >a lot<. I've loved the weight since I 1st bought one.  But I fancied a bigger screen, so I am looking at the new 11" iPad Pro.  Went to the Apple shop today to take a look and see if the 150g extra weight is a massive deal-breaker. Sadly they didn't have them in the shop yet. Gah.   Meant to be late May?  I'll check it out next week.

Quite a thing, these new iPad Pros, with the M1 chip. It's creating quite a storm in the tech industry.   These iPad Pros are essentially fully-fledged laptops without a keyboard running iOS for £750.  Given most posh phones are more and not as powerful with tiny screens, and this is an Apple device, the price is all the more surprising.    Works with the apple pen so can use it to write with handwriting conversion or as a drawing device.

If you've not seen the performance of the M1 chip here is
Linus reviewing the M1 mac and mac air


----------



## teuchter (May 18, 2021)

Yes, I have an M1 mac mini, cost less than a high end smartphone but has very effectively replaced my old mac pro.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 18, 2021)

Sunray said:


> I use my iPad mini 4 >a lot<. I've loved the weight since I 1st bought one.  But I fancied a bigger screen, so I am looking at the new 11" iPad Pro.  Went to the Apple shop today to take a look and see if the 150g extra weight is a massive deal-breaker. Sadly they didn't have them in the shop yet. Gah.   Meant to be late May?  I'll check it out next week.
> 
> Quite a thing, these new iPad Pros, with the M1 chip. It's creating quite a storm in the tech industry.   These iPad Pros are essentially fully-fledged laptops without a keyboard running iOS for £750.  Given most posh phones are more and not as powerful with tiny screens, and this is an Apple device, the price is all the more surprising.    Works with the apple pen so can use it to write with handwriting conversion or as a drawing device.
> 
> ...


Smug expensive gear wanker


----------



## Sunray (May 18, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Smug expensive gear wanker


lol.  Why are you reading the Apple thread?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 19, 2021)

Sunray said:


> lol.  Why are you reading the Apple thread?


Cos I bought a refurbished iPhone for £200


----------



## pseudonarcissus (May 19, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Cos I bought a refurbished iPhone for £200


does the make you a smug cheap gear wanker?


----------



## Orang Utan (May 19, 2021)

pseudonarcissus said:


> does the make you a smug cheap gear wanker?


I hope not.
Just a cheap gear wanker


----------



## pseudonarcissus (May 19, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I hope not.
> Just a cheap gear wanker


That's a relief, many thanks for the clarification.


----------



## Saul Goodman (May 21, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I hope not.
> Just a cheap gear wanker


Nope, it makes you even worse than your common or garden Apple wanker. You're the reason Apple products are so expensive, because you pay more for a S/H outdated POS than you would for a really decent new phone.  You could have bought a Poco X3 Pro for less money (fewer moneys?), and I'll guarantee it's far better in every way (Snapdragon 860!) than your 'refurbished' (see: wiped with a rag) iPhone.


----------



## Me76 (May 21, 2021)

I still watch this thread even though I got off my secondhand apple habit 3 years ago. 

It started because I had a 300 quid windfall in 2003 and that got me a second hand 3g and apple were the only smart phones at that time.  Took me 15 years (and maybe the android technology to catch up) before I realised that I could get a brand new android for less than a secondhand, two steps down apple, and I'm still using that phone now with none of the battery and performance issues that I had with apple at any point.


----------



## cybershot (May 25, 2021)

Don’t know why you’d use chrome on an Apple device but just in case…. Or you want some additional info on all the shit chrome collects about you.









						Why iPhone, iPad And Mac Users Should Stop Using Chrome Instead Of Safari
					

Millions of Apple users warned to quit Chrome after serious new tracking warning...




					www.forbes.com


----------



## pseudonarcissus (May 25, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Don’t know why you’d use chrome on an Apple device but just in case…. Or you want some additional info on all the shit chrome collects about you.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


thanks. 

“Not only does Safari block third-party cookies by default,” Mysk and Haj Bakry explain, “it also deletes first-party cookies for web sites that haven't been visited within seven days... Safari treats cookies more carefully than Chrome.”

Now I know why I have to go through 2-step authentication with my US retirement fund company every time I log on...it's a pain...I have to have a US Skype number just for them. I'd better log in more frequently.

I've been intrigued by Facebook/Insta who are now plastering motorcycle insurance ads from a US company everywhere. I sold my motorcycle over a decade ago and until recently would not have been able to tell you who my insurance company was. They have a longer memory than I do. As they say, half of advertising spend is wasted...but which half?


----------



## paolo (May 25, 2021)

editor said:


> If only something had existed in the past before Apple changed everything. Oh, wait....


They did exist, but haven’t been very succesful because they have an inherent technical limitation.


----------



## magneze (May 25, 2021)

pseudonarcissus said:


> thanks.
> 
> “Not only does Safari block third-party cookies by default,” Mysk and Haj Bakry explain, “it also deletes first-party cookies for web sites that haven't been visited within seven days... Safari treats cookies more carefully than Chrome.”
> 
> ...


Both


----------



## editor (May 25, 2021)

paolo said:


> They did exist, but haven’t been very succesful because they have an inherent technical limitation.


Which was?









						AirTags vs. Tile and SmartTag: Apple's Bluetooth tracker isn't necessarily the best
					

Now that AirTags are a real thing, you've got multiple Bluetooth trackers to choose from. Here's what you should know and how to choose the best one for you.




					www.cnet.com
				












						Apple AirTag vs Tile vs Samsung Galaxy SmartTag: which tracker is best?
					

Can Tile be overthrown by Apple’s AirTag or Samsung's Galaxy SmartTag?




					www.techradar.com


----------



## paolo (May 25, 2021)

editor said:


> Which was?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Let’s do a run off. We‘re local. Serious, not about any beef, I’m curious about the claims


----------



## editor (May 25, 2021)

paolo said:


> Let’s do a run off. We‘re local. Serious, not about any beef, I’m curious about the claims


I've not tried any of them so all I've got to go with is the reviews. 









						Apple AirTags vs. Tile: Antitrust, Monopolistic Copy?
					

Apple AirTags has been speculated for a year now, but was it a copu from Tile?




					www.techtimes.com


----------



## editor (May 25, 2021)

If you need a big range, I'd rule Apple out judging by this review:



> Apple hasn't officially declared the range, but both Samsung and Tile give a maximum range of around 120 metres. This is a technical maximum range dictated by Bluetooth, but will be affected by the device you are using to detect it and the environment that you are in. We've tested all these devices outdoors on flat ground to compare the range.
> 
> Comparing the three devices side by side is revealing. The AirTag is the first to lose contact and we found we needed to be within about 10 metres to be connected to it. The U1 chip will guide you into the precise location when it comes to finding, but you'll have to be much closer than the other devices to trigger that process.
> 
> ...





> In terms of the technology itself, at its core there's very little difference between them: both Samsung and Apple have used the system that Tile established and refined over the best part of a decade and given it a twist. But Tile's experience shows with the effective range of its devices.











						Apple AirTag vs Tile vs Galaxy SmartTag: How do the trackers compare?
					

Which is the best Bluetooth tracker and which should you choose?




					www.pocket-lint.com


----------



## sim667 (May 25, 2021)

I’ve got the airtag now, my other half got me it for my birthday, also got a few quid off using my work discount. It’s a neat little gadget.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (May 25, 2021)

sim667 said:


> I’ve got the airtag now, my other half got me it for my birthday, also got a few quid off using my work discount. It’s a neat little gadget.


I'm trying to imagine the scene....."here you are, my love, have an apple tracking device as a present so I can keep tabs on you"


----------



## sim667 (May 26, 2021)

pseudonarcissus said:


> I'm trying to imagine the scene....."here you are, my love, have an apple tracking device as a present so I can keep tabs on you"


Tbf I asked for it. We share locations on phone anyway 😂

I share it with my entire family too, and they share theirs with mine. Ever since my dad went missing and we had to report him as a missing person and he was found having a brain haemorrhage in his car in a completely random place he’d driven to because he was so confused.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 7, 2021)

I'm loving the photo OCR feature on iOS 15, can cut and paste directly from the image.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jun 7, 2021)

Facetime from non apple devices is interesting. 

Not sure how much the other new stuff will be of use in the real world to me.


----------



## cybershot (Jun 8, 2021)

Lots of good stuff yesterday, my personal faves, which some may find pointless (such as new look weather app, but as a weather obsessed brit the extra info and better layout is cool) Although with most new stuff that gets added to iOS, I either forget about it a few days later or just never use it! The iCloud storage boost for backups is welcome, especially if you need to transfer to a new phone, which as people will have done on here, know is a seamless process.

Everything that can support iOS 14 can support iOS 15 meaning the ancient iPhone 6S and original iPhone SE remains in support (av that Android) even better, you don't have to upgrade to the latest iOS anymore, if you choose to stay on iOS 14, you'll get security updates!

Will people use Apple's authenticator? too late to the party in my book, and organisations must be sighing at the prospect of supporting yet another 2FA method.

Will Android and PC users use Facetime? Again probably too late to the party, and it looks too limited. I don't think my sister has still figured out how to get her number off iMessage despite telling her numerous times how to do it. She must miss a shit ton of messages, but at least iOS now tells me the message can't be sent.

Keen photographers will appreciate the extra  EXIF data.

Separation alerts for apple kit looks cool, very often lose my AirPods and can't remember where I last had them, and the find app never seems to work when I tell it to send a tone to them. Or will it just annoy me!









						Apple Unveils New FaceTime Features Like Spatial Audio, SharePlay, Voice Isolation, and More
					

Apple at WWDC has announced several new upcoming FaceTime features for Apple devices, like spatial audio, voice isolation, wide spectrum, FaceTime...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						Apple Reveals Redesigned Weather iOS App With Dark Sky-Like Notifications and Full-Screen Maps
					

Apple today at WWDC revealed a new iOS weather app with additional features, like full-screen maps and live weather notifications. The new app...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						Apple Introduces iPadOS 15: First Look at New Features
					

Apple today unveiled iPadOS 15, its next-generation operating system for iPad that introduces a slew of new features like widgets on the Home Screen,...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						Apple Announces iCloud+, Combines Paid Storage With Privacy Features Like Hide My Email
					

At WWDC, Apple announced that iCloud is getting a premium subscription tier called "iCloud+," which includes "Private Relay" that...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						iPadOS 15 Allows You to Build iPhone and iPad Apps on an iPad
					

Apple today announced that iPadOS 15 features the ability to build iPhone and iPad apps directly on the iPad in the Swift Playgrounds app.   In...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						Apple Unveils New Health App Features Like Walking Steadiness, Trends, Lab Results, Health Sharing, and More
					

Apple is bringing new features to the Health app that aim to make it easier to identify, measure, and understanding health changes over time.  ...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						Apple Announces Range of New Home Features for HomePod Mini, Apple TV, and Apple Watch
					

Apple today announced a range of new smart home features for HomePod mini, Apple TV, and Apple Watch, as well as third-party Siri integration on...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						iOS 15 Compatible With All iPhones That Run iOS 14
					

Apple's new iOS 15 operating system is compatible with all of the iPhones that are able to run iOS 14, including the original iPhone SE, the...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						watchOS 8 Allows Users to Set Multiple Timers
					

With watchOS 8, Apple will finally allow users to set multiple timers within the Timers app. Each specific timer can be given a label, such as...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						Apple Makes Screen Time API Available to Third-Party Developers
					

With the launch of iOS 15, iPadOS 15, and macOS Monterey, Apple is making its Screen Time API available to third-party developers, which will let...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						Apple Won't Make You Upgrade to iOS 15 and Will Continue to Provide Security Updates for iOS 14
					

Apple plans to allow iPhone and iPad users to remain on iOS 14 and iPadOS 14 even after the launch of the iOS and iPadOS 15 updates, according to new...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						iOS 15 Photos App Now Displays EXIF Metadata for Images
					

If you've ever wanted to see the EXIF data for a photo right on your iPhone Photos app, then you're going to want to install the iOS 15...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						iOS 15 Includes Built-In Password Authenticator With Autofill, Replacing Google Authenticator and Authy
					

There are a slew of new features in iOS 15, so many in fact that Apple did not have time to cover all of them during today's keynote event.   One...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						Apple Temporarily Expands iCloud Storage in iOS 15 for Backing Up Data and Transferring to a New Device
					

If you're low on iCloud storage but want to buy a new device and transfer your data, Apple is making the process easier in iOS 15 with a...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						iOS 15 Brings FaceTime to PC and Android Users With New Option to Join on the Web
					

With the iOS 15, iPadOS 15, and macOS Monterey updates, Apple is expanding the reach of FaceTime by allowing anyone, even those without Apple...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						New Separation Alerts in iOS 15 Let You Know If You Leave an AirTag or Apple Device Behind
					

Apple in iOS 15 is adding new Separation Alerts to the Find My app, which will let you know if you leave an Apple device, a device attached to an...




					www.macrumors.com
				












						iOS 15 Find My App Lets You Find Devices That Are Turned Off or Erased
					

Apple is making some major improvements to the Find My app in iOS 15, making it easier to keep track of your Apple devices and AirTags.    With the...




					www.macrumors.com


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 8, 2021)

It will be available for my 6s? Really? That’s amazing if so. A _6 year old_ phone running the latest software?

Yet again I have zero reason to upgrade my handset. 

And people still say Apple kit is expensive


----------



## Gromit (Jun 8, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It will be available for my 6s? Really? That’s amazing if so. A _6 year old_ phone running the latest software?
> 
> Yet again I have zero reason to upgrade my handset.
> 
> And people still say Apple kit is expensive



Indeed. I’d still be on my 6s if I hadn’t had the chance to pick up a VAT free Xs.

They’d replaced my 6s twice for free as it was.


----------



## nick (Jun 9, 2021)

Long time iPhone user - first time caller

Upgraded to 14.6 yesterday - (forgot to back up first) . Have just discovered that 2 of my important apps (Pocket Money and omni focus) no longer work.
Now need to decide whether to investigate trying to roll back to an earlier OS, or whether there is a way to extract any data from these locked apps and transfer to another (or newer) version of the app


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It will be available for my 6s? Really? That’s amazing if so. A _6 year old_ phone running the latest software?
> 
> Yet again I have zero reason to upgrade my handset.
> 
> And people still say Apple kit is expensive


I recommend getting an X, they are £230-300 now, a huge upgrade from the 6s. Esp the OLED screen.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2021)

nick said:


> Long time iPhone user - first time caller
> 
> Upgraded to 14.6 yesterday - (forgot to back up first) . Have just discovered that 2 of my important apps (Pocket Money and omni focus) no longer work.
> Now need to decide whether to investigate trying to roll back to an earlier OS, or whether there is a way to extract any data from these locked apps and transfer to another (or newer) version of the app


You can roll the OS back.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 9, 2021)

Sunray said:


> I recommend getting an X, they are £230-300 now, a huge upgrade from the 6s. Esp the OLED screen.


Except there’s literally nothing I want to do with my phone that my current handset can’t manage. And I’d lose Touch ID.


----------



## nick (Jun 9, 2021)

Sunray said:


> You can roll the OS back.


Starting to look into this, but worried about correct steps to take - the phone hasn't been plugged into a laptop for a long time, although I think I have it set up with iCloud backups.
Seriously worried about digging a bigger hole for myself due to lack of foresight

things like this don't fill me with confidence 
2 reasons not to roll back from iOS 14.5 to iOS 14.4 (and 1 reason it’s impossible)


----------



## cybershot (Jun 9, 2021)

nick said:


> Long time iPhone user - first time caller
> 
> Upgraded to 14.6 yesterday - (forgot to back up first) . Have just discovered that 2 of my important apps (Pocket Money and omni focus) no longer work.
> Now need to decide whether to investigate trying to roll back to an earlier OS, or whether there is a way to extract any data from these locked apps and transfer to another (or newer) version of the app



Same happened to me for one app, but it had been removed from the app store. Some other older apps that haven't been updated in yonks, apple updated the cert for it themselves. If your cricial app has been abaonded by the dev, or had been removed from the app store, you're screwed. Find an alternative.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Except there’s literally nothing I want to do with my phone that my current handset can’t manage. And I’d lose Touch ID.


Face ID is much better.


----------



## nick (Jun 9, 2021)

> you're screwed. Find an alternative.


Yes - this
The finance one "pocketmoney" stopped being updated when the developer died in 2013. Since then it has been taken over by another bunch - there is now another paid for version available (with bad reviews) that I will have to move to - but would love to find where the backup file was stored (if anywhere) so I can try to import historic data

The other is OmniFocus - there is now a new version - but it is about £40 for a to do manager, which I think borders on gouging . So I need to find a route to extract any saved data and then move to Reminders or similar


----------



## nick (Jun 9, 2021)

Sunray said:


> Face ID is much better.


more so  if you're not wearing a mask (or not wearing an iWatch)


----------



## cybershot (Jun 9, 2021)

nick said:


> Starting to look into this, but worried about correct steps to take - the phone hasn't been plugged into a laptop for a long time, although I think I have it set up with iCloud backups.
> Seriously worried about digging a bigger hole for myself due to lack of foresight
> 
> things like this don't fill me with confidence
> 2 reasons not to roll back from iOS 14.5 to iOS 14.4 (and 1 reason it’s impossible)



You may be able to retreive the data with the iMazing app (scroll down this page, or read the page for background info)









						iPassword app not working or incompatible with iOS 14.5
					

According to multiple reports, it seems that the iPassword app is not working or is incompatible with the iOS 14.5 update.




					piunikaweb.com
				




And agree with general consesus that the update should have notified you beforehand what apps were going to end up being incompatible. Feel for all those with that iPassword app being fucked over.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 9, 2021)

Sunray said:


> Face ID is much better.


It really isn’t.


----------



## Sunray (Jun 9, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It really isn’t.


I held onto touch thinking the same thing. But using both for two years now (I've a mini 4), Face ID wins by miles. 
The X's camera is a massive upgrade too.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 9, 2021)

Sunray said:


> I held onto touch thinking the same thing. But using both for two years now (I've a mini 4), Face ID wins by miles.


Agreed. I reluctantly upgraded from a 6s to an 11 earlier this year and having got used to the touch ID was not looking forward to the face recognition. I thought it would be clunky and failure prone but it's actually quite amazing. It's so seamless that I wonder sometimes if it's actually working and give it to someone else to see if they can get in.


----------



## nick (Jun 10, 2021)

cybershot 
Thanks for the iMazing suggestion
On the pocket money app I managed to use it to extract an SQL file for the old app, rename it and stick it in the directory of a new App - it seems to have worked

Omnifocus next


----------



## cybershot (Jul 24, 2021)

Cool story.









						YouTuber sends AirTag to Tim Cook, and Apple returns it with a letter
					

An YouTuber decided to sent three AirTags to different places. One AirTag was sent to none other than Tim Cook at Apple Park.




					9to5mac.com


----------



## Hollis (Jul 27, 2021)

Sunray said:


> I use my iPad mini 4 >a lot<. I've loved the weight since I 1st bought one.  But I fancied a bigger screen, so I am looking at the new 11" iPad Pro.  Went to the Apple shop today to take a look and see if the 150g extra weight is a massive deal-breaker. Sadly they didn't have them in the shop yet. Gah.   Meant to be late May?  I'll check it out next week.
> 
> Quite a thing, these new iPad Pros, with the M1 chip. It's creating quite a storm in the tech industry.   These iPad Pros are essentially fully-fledged laptops without a keyboard running iOS for £750.  Given most posh phones are more and not as powerful with tiny screens, and this is an Apple device, the price is all the more surprising.    Works with the apple pen so can use it to write with handwriting conversion or as a drawing device.
> 
> ...


 I used to have an iPad Pro (2018) through work - amazingly powerful.. It managed to handle an enormous spreadsheet pretty well, until I eventually broke it.. 

I miss that iPad.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 11, 2021)

Just got the new iphone 13 pro and am struggling working out how to back up my music files to the icloud. I don't use itunes or the Apple music app as all my music is got from other sources and I use a third-party app to play the music. I have about 100gb of files, but I can't work out how you back them up. It seems easy enough to do if you have itunes or if you've bought music from Apple.
I don't have a PC or a Mac. I usually download the music onto my Chromebook and then upload it to Google Drive, then download the files onto my 3rd-party app (GoPlayer). Uploading files to Google Drive from my iphone never seems to work, so I'm loath to try that in case I lose the files. Most of them are already in the Drive but there's a few dozen that have been on the phone for a while and are no longer in Drive.
Any advice?


----------



## cybershot (Oct 11, 2021)

Start from the beginning. Do you already have the files stored on your current iPhone? Or are you new to iPhone?

If you’re moving from one iPhone to another I’m prett sure as long as you have the old iPhone next to the new one when you set it up you can choose to just transfer everything from the old one to new one and it does it’s witchcraft.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 11, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Start from the beginning. Do you already have the files stored on your current iPhone? Or are you new to iPhone?
> 
> If you’re moving from one iPhone to another I’m prett sure as long as you have the old iPhone next to the new one when you set it up you can choose to just transfer everything from the old one to new one and it does it’s witchcraft.


Yes theyre on the iphone 7 I'm using currently. Not new to iphone, but had a Mac or a PC before, so it was a doddle.
I've just set up that phone to phone transfer but I was led to believe it wouldn't transfer those files, just contacts and photos and anything else on Apple apps, but not third party ones


----------



## cybershot (Oct 11, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Yes theyre on the iphone 7 I'm using currently. Not new to iphone, but had a Mac or a PC before, so it was a doddle.
> I've just set up that phone to phone transfer but I was led to believe it wouldn't transfer those files, just contacts and photos and anything else on Apple apps, but not third party ones



Honestly. I can’t remember. When I went from X to 12 pro I’m pretty sure it just transferred the lot. I know it transferred my custom made ringtone at least.  I could be wrong though. Nothing to lose as you’ll still have your old phone.

There are some 3rd party applications like anytrans which will do this as well I think. I might be able to source a cracked version! I’ll look in a bit.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 11, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Honestly. I can’t remember. When I went from X to 12 pro I’m pretty sure it just transferred the lot. I know it transferred my custom made ringtone at least.  I could be wrong though. Nothing to lose as you’ll still have your old phone.
> 
> There are some 3rd party applications like anytrans which will do this as well I think. I might be able to source a cracked version! I’ll look in a bit.


Well it's finished now and it transferred 9 out of 200+, so looks like I'm going to have to upload each file individually to Google Drive and then download onto the other phone


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 13, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Well it's finished now and it transferred 9 out of 200+, so looks like I'm going to have to upload each file individually to Google Drive and then download onto the other phone



I'm assuming you have limited space on google drive so aren't keeping a copy of the files on there once you've transferred to to your iphone.

If that is the case it may be worth considering upgrading - even if for just one month - to a Google One account with 100GB storage at $1.99 p/m (£1.46ish), so you can bulk upload everything at once and then bulk download it again rather than doing it piecemeal.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 13, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> I'm assuming you have limited space on google drive so aren't keeping a copy of the files on there once you've transferred to to your iphone.
> 
> If that is the case it may be worth considering upgrading - even if for just one month - to a Google One account with 100GB storage at $1.99 p/m (£1.46ish), so you can bulk upload everything at once and then bulk download it again rather than doing it piecemeal.


no, I have 200gb - couldn't bulk upload or download that easily though as they keep pausing and starting again, so had to spend a couple of days doing it file by file


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 13, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> no, I have 200gb - couldn't bulk upload or download that easily though as they keep pausing and starting again, so had to spend a couple of days doing it file by file



Ah right. That may have been the same issue then as when you were transferring everything from phone to phone too. Possibly a weird limitation of iOS in handling massive file transfers? Hope you managed to sort anyway.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 13, 2021)

skyscraper101 said:


> Ah right. That may have been the same issue then as when you were transferring everything from phone to phone too. Possibly a weird limitation of iOS in handling massive file transfers? Hope you managed to sort anyway.


aye all done now, it's only an issue when i get a new phone


----------



## On Fire (Oct 18, 2021)




----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 18, 2021)

On Fire said:


>



What is it?


----------



## On Fire (Oct 18, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> What is it?



Today's Apple Event. Not iPhone though, so I posted in wrong thread.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 18, 2021)

On Fire said:


> Today's Apple Event. Not iPhone though, so I posted in wrong thread.


What did they announce though?


----------



## On Fire (Oct 18, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> What did they announce though?



New Airpods and new MacBook Pro with M1 Pro and M1 Max chips.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Oct 18, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> What did they announce though?


Also 3 new colours of HomePod mini.
Excitement is almost tangible.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 18, 2021)

My excitement remains contained


----------



## MrCurry (Oct 19, 2021)

On Fire said:


> New Airpods and new MacBook Pro with M1 Pro and M1 Max chips.


I was hoping for a new appletv so they sell out the current models with a price drop. Alas not to be 😢


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 1, 2021)

Anyone get a pale red dot on the bottom left of the screen? You only really notice it in night mode. Does it indicate you’re being spied on?


----------



## nick (Nov 2, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Anyone get a pale red dot on the bottom left of the screen? You only really notice it in night mode. Does it indicate you’re being spied on?


Orange dot on top right net to notch when it has mic or camera on.

To quote Mr Jobs "you're holding it wrong" - Is it upside down?


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2021)

No, googled it and there was lots of info about it a spot in top right but not bottom left, strangely. But there have been suggestions that my phone is listening to me


----------



## nick (Nov 2, 2021)

This much is true


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2021)

Do you know how to stop it?


----------



## nick (Nov 2, 2021)

A certain amount of leg pulling in my previous replies

I'm probably naive, but think that the orange / green "monitor notification" lights are probably honest - and that Apple are relatively good at keeping your data private from the world (doubtless so that they can monetise it better themselves). If the lights are on then it is watching / listening.

If you really want to be sure, gaffer tape a bit of blutac over the mics - but that is probably a bit too much "tin foil hat brigade"

If asking about a little light leakage on bottom left - I haven't ever noticed it on a 13 or an X


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 2, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> No, googled it and there was lots of info about it a spot in top right but not bottom left, strangely. But there have been suggestions that my phone is listening to me


Bottom left is just the screen, not any sort of system notification area. So it’s either coming from whatever app you’re using or the screen is knackered.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Bottom left is just the screen, not any sort of system notification area. So it’s either coming from whatever app you’re using or the screen is knackered.


Nope, it’s only visible when in dark mode, and not all of the time. It’s a brand new phone


----------



## MrCurry (Nov 2, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Nope, it’s only visible when in dark mode, and not all of the time. It’s a brand new phone


Does it appear in a screenshot, or visible only when viewing the display?  if the former, it’s in the software. If the latter, it’s something within the display itself.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 2, 2021)

MrCurry said:


> Does it appear in a screenshot, or visible only when viewing the display?  if the former, it’s in the software. If the latter, it’s something within the display itself.


Seeing as the screenshot will be displayed on the display though....


----------



## MrCurry (Nov 2, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Seeing as the screenshot will be displayed on the display though....


A screenshot can easily be zoomed or rotated to use different parts of the display, viewed on a different device or even posted to this forum for others to compare results.


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2021)

Have stuck in night time to take a screenshot here:


----------



## neonwilderness (Nov 2, 2021)

It looks like the Urban75 logo behind the keyboard.



It must be editor or Lazy Llama spying on you


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 2, 2021)

Ah, is that it!? Well that is annoying. I don’t use Siri though, so don’t know why I’m getting suggestions from it


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Anyone get a pale red dot on the bottom left of the screen? You only really notice it in night mode. Does it indicate you’re being spied on?


the master criminal always makes one fatal error and apple's was having a light which showed when they were spying on their customers


----------



## neonwilderness (Nov 2, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Ah, is that it!? Well that is annoying. I don’t use Siri though, so don’t know why I’m getting suggestions from it


It'll probably just be a Safari shortcut with the same icon. The Siri thing was there on my phone because I had the thread open in Safari on my Macbook at the same time.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 17, 2021)

Fix your own iPhone (and M1 Mac) - with Apple approval...








						Apple announces Self Service Repair
					

Apple parts, tools, and manuals — starting with iPhone 12 and iPhone 13 — available to individual consumers.



					www.apple.com
				




Has to be a good thing, yeah?


----------



## cybershot (Nov 17, 2021)

Now if only you could self upgrade the RAM and Storage of the Macs again.


----------



## elbows (Nov 17, 2021)

cybershot said:


> Now if only you could self upgrade the RAM and Storage of the Macs again.


Even less chance of that happening now since the RAM is tightly integrated with their modern cpu/gpus, with some performance benefit. We could still hope that the 'soldered onto the mainboard' storage policy might change at some point though, although I sadly dont expect it.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Nov 17, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Just got the new iphone 13 pro and am struggling working out how to back up my music files to the icloud. I don't use itunes or the Apple music app as all my music is got from other sources and I use a third-party app to play the music. I have about 100gb of files, but I can't work out how you back them up. It seems easy enough to do if you have itunes or if you've bought music from Apple.
> I don't have a PC or a Mac. I usually download the music onto my Chromebook and then upload it to Google Drive, then download the files onto my 3rd-party app (GoPlayer). Uploading files to Google Drive from my iphone never seems to work, so I'm loath to try that in case I lose the files. Most of them are already in the Drive but there's a few dozen that have been on the phone for a while and are no longer in Drive.
> Any advice?


When you find out tell me, got the same phone, currently just using spotify. 🤦🏼‍♀️


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 9, 2022)

Looks like Apple have just killed a lot of business for companies like Square, iZettle etc









						Apple's 'Tap to Pay' lets iPhones accept contactless payments | Engadget
					

Apple is introducing a Tap to Pay feature that lets shops take contactless payments through an iPhone — no extra devices required..




					www.engadget.com


----------



## scalyboy (Feb 26, 2022)

Bought a s/h (£130) iPhone 6S a couple years ago (so don’t know how old it really is). 

Battery only seems to charge 85% full and leaks power like a bastard, so much so that when I’m away from a power point to charge it, I either keep it switched off till I need it, or keep it plugged in to one of those portable charger devices. 

Now I’ve noticed its Lightning socket feels loose and I sometimes have to jiggle the plugged-in cable when I’m trying to charge it at home.

Is it knackered beyond all reasonable hope?

I once bought one of those iPhone battery replacement kits for a previous iPhone - couldn’t get the hang of it, and completely f**ked the phone, hence buying this one. 

And even if I did manage to replace the battery, if the Lightning socket is knackered then is there any point?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 26, 2022)

scalyboy said:


> And even if I did manage to replace the battery, if the Lightning socket is knackered then is there any point?



I'd probably seek the advice of an iphone repair specialist if you're enquiring about getting a new battery anyway (assuming you were going to get it done properly).

I once tried to replace the batetry myself on a 5S and it almost ended in disaster. I properly fucked the fingerprint ID and ended up having to take it to an iSmash place in the end because I massively overestimated how simple it would be 

The 6S is really quite old though, I'd expect it to start slowing down a lot so unless you were just using it for very simple things I wouldn't count on it being able to run much before long.


----------



## MrCurry (Feb 27, 2022)

scalyboy said:


> Bought a s/h (£130) iPhone 6S a couple years ago (so don’t know how old it really is).
> 
> Battery only seems to charge 85% full and leaks power like a bastard, so much so that when I’m away from a power point to charge it, I either keep it switched off till I need it, or keep it plugged in to one of those portable charger devices.
> 
> ...


I think the lightning socket can be replaced, just as the battery can be, so it’s a question of what that costs versus upgrading to an iPhone 8 or something newer.  I don’t know the answer to that one, but like skyscraper101 said, probably worth taking it to a phone repair shop (or finding one that will quote via their website).

Replacement batteries don’t necessarily last a long time though. My MiL has a 6S which we paid £70 for a battery replacement via official Apple support mail-in service (post it to Czech Republic then get it back via DHL) in March last year. Now already the phone won’t hold a charge, gets warm when being recharged and is only useable if left connected to the charger all day. I have a theory its because she updated to the latest iOS which is making the processor run flat out the whole time and over stressing the battery, causing it to die early.  Or it was just an unlucky, dodgy battery we got.  I should look into what kind of warranty the service replacement program gives on batteries (anyone know?) as it’s been less than a year and now it’s useless.

Just a heads up anyhow.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 27, 2022)

scalyboy said:


> Bought a s/h (£130) iPhone 6S a couple years ago (so don’t know how old it really is).
> 
> Battery only seems to charge 85% full and leaks power like a bastard, so much so that when I’m away from a power point to charge it, I either keep it switched off till I need it, or keep it plugged in to one of those portable charger devices.
> 
> ...


The socket being loose is often as simple as it having a bit of dirt/fluff in it. Get a paper clip and _very carefully_ have a poke around, it’s amazing what you can sometimes fish out.

As for battery, a new one - done properly at an Apple store - gave my old 6S an entire new lease of life.


----------



## scalyboy (Feb 28, 2022)

Thanks all; useful advice


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Feb 28, 2022)

I use this stuff for cleaning muck off and out of tech/ports/etc.  Great a grabbing dust from crannies. Other brands do v.similar stuff.  YMMV.


----------



## scalyboy (Mar 3, 2022)

Throbbing Angel said:


> I use this stuff for cleaning muck off and out of tech/ports/etc.  Great a grabbing dust from crannies. Other brands do v.similar stuff.  YMMV.
> 
> View attachment 312245


Thanks, will give that a try


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Mar 3, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Get a paper clip and _very carefully_ have a poke around, it’s amazing what you can sometimes fish out.


might I suggest a wooden toothpick which would avoid the chance of shorting anything


----------



## MrCurry (Mar 3, 2022)

March 8 Launch event announced for the new iphone SE3 ( so the rumour mill says).  The “low cost” iphone. Wonder how low though, in the era of chip shortages.


----------



## Elpenor (Mar 25, 2022)

Right, so the iPhone SE 3 is now confirmed at £419 for a 64 gig model, it comes with 5G a better camera and lots of stuff I don’t understand. 

Do I need bigger capacity on the phone? I don’t have music on my phone or download videos and already use iCloud for photos.

I last bought an iPhone in 2016, I had a trusty 6S until I cracked the screen and my friend gave me their original SE. A good phone, not too big. But now showing it’s age, battery is dead and I think it’s now no longer supported. I don’t think I can even get any money off for trading it in.

So I’m tempted to buy the SE 3. I’ve got 5% cash back at curry’s on one of my cards so that’s another £20 off. I’m going to need to buy new charger cables (I have one downstairs, one in the study and one in my bedroom, plus one for the car!) as well aren’t I? Plus a new case. Sigh, more stuff for the landfill.  

My current sim only deal ends in June, but there’s nothing to stop me changing the phone now and later moving to a different sim only contract is there? I would miss out on a few months of 5G data but I don’t think you can even get 5G down here.

Any thoughts or comments gladly appreciated


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Mar 25, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Right, so the iPhone SE 3 is now confirmed at £419 for a 64 gig model, it comes with 5G a better camera and lots of stuff I don’t understand.
> 
> Do I need bigger capacity on the phone? I don’t have music on my phone or download videos and already use iCloud for photos.
> 
> ...



Seems sensible.

Nothing stopping you from getting a phone now and switching to another SIM deal later on, no. I assume you are buying it off contract and therefore unlocked.

Amazon is selling it at RRP but you can spread the payments over 5 months interest-free if that's of use to you? VS £21 cashback @ currys.

Also, have a look at https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/cheap-mobile-finder/

and...  View mobile availability - Ofcom Checker is v.useful and better than the networks signal checker tools


----------



## Elpenor (Mar 26, 2022)

Cheers, makes sense. I always buy my phones unlocked if I can. I hold on to them for quite a long time it works out cheaper. 

That network coverage checker was handy. 

I do this so infrequently that I forget about it in between. I’m off to Curry's tomorrow then


----------



## MrCurry (Mar 26, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Cheers, makes sense. I always buy my phones unlocked if I can. I hold on to them for quite a long time it works out cheaper.
> 
> That network coverage checker was handy.
> 
> I do this so infrequently that I forget about it in between. I’m off to Curry's tomorrow then


MiL just got an SE3 and loves it. Same chip as the iPhone 13 means it’s sure to be a long lived one (she’s been surviving with a 6S until now), so the cost isn’t too bad if you can divide it by 6 or 7 years of ownership (with a few battery replacements in that time).

The camera might not be as good as iPhone 11/12/13 but good enough I reckon.


----------



## nick (Mar 26, 2022)

PS- My latest phone has 5g, and it was already enabled on my SIM (three) - was amazed one day when the copper WiFI at home failed and I had to use the phone for tethering. My broadband speed went from 30mbps to 800mbps. I've now swapped my main broadband provider to  5G .

However, coverage is (seems) a lot more short range than older G's - so maybe have a friend with a 5G phone come try it at your house, or wherever you need said coverage most, before you make any pricing decisions that are 5G dependent


----------



## Elpenor (Mar 28, 2022)

Well it’s arrived today and so far is doing the job. Spent the afternoon setting it up on works time. Slightly annoyed that I don’t get a plug with it, so the fast charging cable won’t be used for a bit; I’ve spent enough money this week as it is!


----------



## MrCurry (Mar 28, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Well it’s arrived today and so far is doing the job. Spent the afternoon setting it up on works time. Slightly annoyed that I don’t get a plug with it, so the fast charging cable won’t be used for a bit; I’ve spent enough money this week as it is!


Yeah, we shopped for a case, usb-c charger, wireless charger and long 1.8m usb-c to lightning cable for MiL’s recent SE3 purchase.  Came to over £70   That’s about what I’d spend on a phone, given the choice.


----------



## Elpenor (Mar 28, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> Yeah, we shopped for a case, usb-c charger, wireless charger and long 1.8m usb-c to lightning cable for MiL’s recent SE3 purchase.  Came to over £70   That’s about what I’d spend on a phone, given the choice.


I’ve decided to get a case on eBay, but scared to take it outside until then in case I drop it!

I’m going to use my existing plugs and cables. I have one in the office, bedroom, lounge and car. But now my battery doesn’t die within 10 minutes I shouldn’t need them as much


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 28, 2022)

MrCurry said:


> Yeah, we shopped for a case, usb-c charger, wireless charger and long 1.8m usb-c to lightning cable for MiL’s recent SE3 purchase.  Came to over £70



Whaaaaaat? 

You could get all that for £20 on Amazon. Half that if you decide that you don't need a silly wireless charger.


----------



## MrCurry (Mar 28, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Whaaaaaat?
> 
> You could get all that for £20 on Amazon. Half that if you decide that you don't need a silly wireless charger.


It was all bought on Amazon. 

Wireless charger isn’t silly if you want something which will charge your phone without wearing out the lightning socket.

 EDIT: full disclosure - on checking it was actually £62 for the items, plus a delivery fee because I’m in sweden. So my “over £70” was a tiny bit inaccurate, but not far out.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Mar 28, 2022)

Surprised to learn that it is still rocking a lightning connector.  Good for avoiding pointless, for the sake of it upgrading, though.

Does it still have a 3.5mm headphone jack?

That's the main irritation for me at present whilst researching my next possible phone.


----------



## MrCurry (Mar 28, 2022)

Throbbing Angel said:


> Surprised to learn that it is still rocking a lightning connector.  Good for avoiding pointless, for the sake of it upgrading, though.
> 
> Doet it still have a 3.5mm headphone jack?
> 
> That's the main irritation for me at present whilst researching my next possible phone.


No, i think they dispensed with the 3.5mm jack years ago.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 28, 2022)

Throbbing Angel said:


> Surprised to learn that it is still rocking a lightning connector.  Good for avoiding pointless, for the sake of it upgrading, though.
> 
> Does it still have a 3.5mm headphone jack?
> 
> That's the main irritation for me at present whilst researching my next possible phone.



Think wireless is still a fair bit slower then a decent charger. It's also far less efficient if that bothers you.


----------



## Throbbing Angel (Mar 28, 2022)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Think wireless is still a fair bit slower then a decent charger. It's also far less efficient if that bothers you.


 The lack of a 3.5mm jack has pushed it onto the 'meh' list for now.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 28, 2022)

Phones are still made with a 3.5mm jack????

Do you have to wind them up?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 28, 2022)

Throbbing Angel said:


> The lack of a 3.5mm jack has pushed it onto the 'meh' list for now.



I don't think iPhones have had it for a while?


----------



## Elpenor (Mar 28, 2022)

No headphone jack. But I don’t think I’ll need it really. Can’t think when I last used headphones in my old iPhone. 

I priced up fast charging plugs and the relevant cables and to get 2 of each was approx £15


----------



## cybershot (Apr 27, 2022)

Self Service Repair has launched in the US. Coming soon to Europe!

Return the replaced part and you get a credit!









						Apple’s Self Service Repair now available
					

Genuine Apple parts and tools can now be purchased by US customers.



					www.apple.com


----------



## scalyboy (May 7, 2022)

Been hearing about how my iPhone 6S will be unsupported soon, maybe this year. I had a plan* to use it in the car, really just for Google Maps satnav and for texting / WhatsApp, and buy another, newer model refurb iPhone for other uses. 

I'm not bothered that I won't be able to access the "cool new features" that require the latest iOS, but did read somewhere that being unable to install the latest iOS bug fixes and other updates could make it vulnerable to fraud. Would that still be the case if I changed passwords, and removed PayPal and any other apps with my financial details on them? I could remove nearly all the apps, Amazon, Abebooks, eBay etc

* actually I did buy a refurb 6S Plus, but was so unused to its larger size that I kept dropping the bastard, it still works but the screen is badly cracked now


----------



## skyscraper101 (Aug 18, 2022)

Apple Planning to Hold iPhone 14 Event on September 7
					

Apple is aiming to hold its first fall event on Wednesday, September 7, reports Bloomberg's Mark Gurman. The event will focus on the iPhone 14...




					www.macrumors.com
				




Hold on to your hats everyone. The iPhone 14 has an event on September 7, and we can expect truly game changing upgrades such as the removal of the 'notch' which will be replaced with a hole punch cutout.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 18, 2022)

Minor processor speed upgrades! Slightly better camera! A new colour that due to a glass back you’ll cover with a case!

Get queuing now


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 18, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Apple Planning to Hold iPhone 14 Event on September 7
> 
> 
> Apple is aiming to hold its first fall event on Wednesday, September 7, reports Bloomberg's Mark Gurman. The event will focus on the iPhone 14...
> ...



In over 10 years of having iPhones, I've never noticed that they have a 'notch'. In fact, I didn't know what a notch was until 10 minutes ago when I Googled it. 

It's going to irritate me now.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 18, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> In over 10 years of having iPhones, I've never noticed that they have a 'notch'. In fact, I didn't know what a notch was until 10 minutes ago when I Googled it.
> 
> It's going to irritate me now.



You better upgrade then. 🤣


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2022)

Quite liking iOS 16 or what I've seen of it so far. Nice little search bar on the main screen replacing the swipe down action. Bold typeface clock on the lock screen. Instant access widgets etc.

I know this has all been available for years on Android but you know, Apple.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 13, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Quite liking iOS 16 or what I've seen of it so far. Nice little search bar on the main screen replacing the swipe down action. Bold typeface clock on the lock screen. Instant access widgets etc.
> 
> I know this has all been available for years on Android but you know, Apple.


I don’t see the point of all these multiple lock screens


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I don’t see the point of all these multiple lock screens



Seems purely to be a UX tweak to let people switch up their lock screen directly from locked (rather than through settings). There's little functional point beyond that from what I can see.


----------



## Gromit (Sep 13, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Quite liking iOS 16 or what I've seen of it so far. Nice little search bar on the main screen replacing the swipe down action. Bold typeface clock on the lock screen. Instant access widgets etc.
> 
> I know this has all been available for years on Android but you know, Apple.


If it's been available a while on Android that's why Apple ain't had it.
IP legal suits fly back and forth between the tech companies about who can have a search bar here or double tap there or zoom and pinch or whatever. 
People aren't allow to copy stuff just because people like it and want it on their OS too.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2022)

Gromit said:


> If it's been available a while on Android that's why Apple ain't had it.
> IP legal suits fly back and forth between the tech companies about who can have a search bar here or double tap there or zoom and pinch or whatever.
> People aren't allow to copy stuff just because people like it and want it on their OS too.



Sure, although Apple do also have a rep for taking a while to introduce 'new' things long established in other places.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 13, 2022)

I notice you can now also do that thing where you can isolate someone (or something) from a photo by just pressing and holding on it, and then create an entirely new image from just that selection - or even better paste that image in another image if you're using an app like Canva or Studio. Very useful.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Minor processor speed upgrades! Slightly better camera! A new colour that due to a glass back you’ll cover with a case!
> 
> Get queuing now


I'll see you there and we can high five these really cool people!


----------



## cybershot (Sep 19, 2022)

Just found the new duplicate photos album that's in iOS 16. Surprised I didn't have more than 50 of the same photo to be honest, but that's a nice new feature for me as someone that sometimes edits photos on the go.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2022)

The new update has borked the app I use the most. It’s a music player and it now crashes every time I press any button that isn’t ‘play’. 
Is there any way of going back to the last IOS?


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## belboid (Sep 20, 2022)

It was via iTunes up to at least 14, so that would probably still work


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## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2022)

belboid said:


> It was via iTunes up to at least 14, so that would probably still work


I don’t/can’t use iTunes though. Can’t play Soundcloud mixes on there and that’s 95% of my listening


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 20, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> The new update has borked the app I use the most. It’s a music player and it now crashes every time I press any button that isn’t ‘play’.
> Is there any way of going back to the last IOS?


Have you tried reinstalling the app?


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## cybershot (Sep 20, 2022)

How to Downgrade from iOS 16 to iOS 15
					

This is how you bring your iPhone back to iOS 15 from iOS 16. If you run into iOS 16 problems on your iPhone and you think moving your iPhone back to the previous version of iOS could help, this guide will help you downgrade. You can only go back to iOS 15.7 or iOS 15.6.1. You […]




					www.gottabemobile.com


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 20, 2022)

I’ve just installed the Soundcloud app on my phone (iPhone12, running iOS16), and it works fine, so the issue isn’t with iOS - an uninstall/reinstall may fix it for you.


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## cybershot (Sep 20, 2022)

The new isolate item from a photo feature is pretty cool too, although forget it in low light photos.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Have you tried reinstalling the app?


No, I don’t want to lose my files


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## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I’ve just installed the Soundcloud app on my phone (iPhone12, running iOS16), and it works fine, so the issue isn’t with iOS - an uninstall/reinstall may fix it for you.


It’s not Soundcloud that’s the issue, but an app called GoPlayer I play music from. It’s deffo the update that’s borked it. No problems before that.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 20, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> No, I don’t want to lose my files


Would you lose them? If it’s a player that’s just looking at the file store in your phone it shouldn’t remove anything. If it’s some sort of closed app that is storing tracks internally it’s awful and I wouldn’t be using it anyway


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## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Would you lose them? If it’s a player that’s just looking at the file store in your phone it shouldn’t remove anything. If it’s some sort of closed app that is storing tracks internally it’s awful and I shouldn’t be using it anyway


Aye, when you uninstall all files are removed.
It’s a pain in the arse having a iPhone if you don’t have a MacBook too. I like to play my music offline rather than stream it. I have to use an app to download Soundcloud (most music on there now has no one-click download buttons) files into GoogleDrive and then download them onto my phone using GoPlayer. Which is a massive faff. It’s even more of a faff is you want to listen to Mixcloud or YouTube off line too. 
I wish there was a more convenient way to listen to music that works for me


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## cybershot (Sep 20, 2022)

This one?









						‎GoPlayer: cloud music player
					

‎Listen to your music from Google Drive with audio equalizer, audio bookmarks, audio playlists, playback speed control and many other useful features. Download your favorite music when you are not connected to the Internet. Listen to your music on Apple TV, Google Chromecast, Sonos.  Features...



					apps.apple.com
				




Looks like it hasn't been updated since November 2020, so i wouldn't hold your breath it will ever get fixed.


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## metalguru (Sep 20, 2022)

It's getting increasingly hard to go against the expected default option of streaming music.

I have some music and lectures on my computer that aren't available online, but it's too much of a faff to work out how to get them on my phone - so they are becoming overlooked.


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## skyscraper101 (Sep 20, 2022)

Yeah I had Google Music for years doing a grand job of both streaming my music from the cloud, and downloading directly to the phone.

Then Google made everyone start using 'YouTube Music' which doesn't let you download your own music for offline listening anymore. Rubbish.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2022)

cybershot said:


> This one?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Aye.
I’ve tried other music players and they’re even shitter 
I don’t really know what I’m looking for mind. They all seem to assume your files have DRM and most of mine don’t.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Yeah I had Google Music for years doing a grand job of both streaming my music from the cloud, and downloading directly to the phone.
> 
> Then Google made everyone start using 'YouTube Music' which doesn't let you download your own music for offline listening anymore. Rubbish.


I couldn’t even manage to play my mixes on Google Music


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## spitfire (Sep 20, 2022)

editor said:


> I'll see you there and we can high five these really cool people!




Haha I was there, upstairs finishing the AV install, the Apple crowd turned up about a week before the doors opened and proceeded to get more and more whoopy as the week went on, drove us fucking mental.

That guy in the grey top was the head honcho of all the Apple Store builds, proper ball breaker.


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## danski (Sep 20, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I couldn’t even manage to play my mixes on Google Music


Not a music player as such but you can download and play music from it. Also organise folders as you want. Might be worth a look








						iFiles 2
					

iFiles 2 is a fully featured file manager for iOS




					ifilesapp.com


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## cybershot (Sep 20, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Aye.
> I’ve tried other music players and they’re even shitter
> I don’t really know what I’m looking for mind. They all seem to assume your files have DRM and most of mine don’t.


Will this do the trick?









						MusicStreamer - An iTunes Alternative, Listen to your Music
					

Play your music files directly to iOS devices from your computer or network drive. Download your MP3s for offline listening. MusicStreamer - FREE TRIAL




					www.stratospherix.com
				



 it also lets you download for offline listening.









						Stream your MP3 Library from Windows11 to your iPhone/iPad
					

Stream your music files from your computer to iOS devices and import your playlists today. Try our simple setup guide for Windows11. FREE TRIAL




					www.stratospherix.com
				




And yeah getting custom mixes your mates have done into your phone now is a PITA. I have plex, but that's an overly complicated setup if you're not a geek.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Will this do the trick?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Ta, not sure if that’ll work with a Chromebook though


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## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 20, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Aye, when you uninstall all files are removed.
> It’s a pain in the arse having a iPhone if you don’t have a MacBook too. I like to play my music offline rather than stream it. I have to use an app to download Soundcloud (most music on there now has no one-click download buttons) files into GoogleDrive and then download them onto my phone using GoPlayer. Which is a massive faff. It’s even more of a faff is you want to listen to Mixcloud or YouTube off line too.
> I wish there was a more convenient way to listen to music that works for me


Why not stream though? Are you off grid that much?


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## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Why not stream though? Are you off grid that much?


It’s not very reliable, streaming. It cuts out. It’s like listening to a scratched CD on an Alba ministack back in the day


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## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2022)

I also have playlists which don’t work so well with streaming


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## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> It’s not very reliable, streaming. It cuts out. It’s like listening to a scratched CD on an Alba ministack back in the day


Bearing in mind I have my earphones or headphones in pretty much all of the time, even at home, and when I don’t have them on, my phone is connected to my UE Boom


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## elbows (Sep 20, 2022)

Even though VLC tends to be associated with video, it plays audio too and is free and opensource so maybe worth giving it a go. Its stood the test of time and lurks on most platforms and works with most cloud and network sharing thingies.


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## cybershot (Sep 20, 2022)

elbows said:


> Even though VLC tends to be associated with video, it plays audio too and is free and opensource so maybe worth giving it a go. Its stood the test of time and lurks on most platforms and works with most cloud and network sharing thingies.


Actually a good shout, it can also remember where you left off on in a mix which is useful when you're listening to a 6 hour prog mix!!!! Totally forgot about it because of having Plex for years.


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## cybershot (Oct 22, 2022)

Has anyone got a 14 pro and still getting camera rattle/shake/vibrate on 3rd party apps despite it apparently being fixed in an iOS update. I’m starting to wonder if I need to take mine back for replacement as it still exhibits the behaviour. Everything is up to date.


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## T & P (Dec 1, 2022)

Can’t be bothered to search for this so apologies if it’s been discussed already, or if this is old news. But I was having a long video call with a mate the other night whilst watching the football, both of us doing stuff around the house, and I noticed that whenever he got up and left the room or walked around, the camera would follow him.

I thought he must have been talking on a laptop with some fancy motorised webcam, but he was using his iPad. I have a relatively new iPad Air and AFAIK mine doesn’t do that. Not sure what model he has.

Whereas it didn’t offer a 180-degree panorama, it really felt like it was a motorised camera, but it was just the standard built-in camera. I guess it’s zoomed in by default when the video call starts without the viewer realising it, and then digitally tracks the subject if they move left or right.

Highly impressive, but I’ve been known to be on a long Skype call with relatives and get off camera for a moment to have a cheeky line, so I’d definitely want to know if my next device could have the capability of ratting me out to my family when talking to them


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## Nivag (Dec 2, 2022)

It's called centre stage - Use Centre Stage on your iPad or Studio Display


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## Throbbing Angel (Dec 11, 2022)

Anyone using and older iPad with ios16?

I have a 7th generation iPad running ios15 and the iOS update is there in settings, but it hasn't announced itself to me in a "do this update" alert.


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## Throbbing Angel (Dec 11, 2022)

Throbbing Angel said:


> Anyone using and older iPad with ios16?
> 
> I have a 7th generation iPad running ios15 and the iOS update is there in settings, but it hasn't announced itself to me in a "do this update" alert.



nvm, found this so I reckon I'll be fine as it starts with gen 5


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## Looby (Dec 15, 2022)

Can anyone help with my email issue please? I’ve changed my phone and I can’t get my sky email to work on the app. It keeps telling me to go to settings to enter my password but that’s not working. It’s really annoying having to log into the desktop browser all the time. 

I’ve reinstalled it but it’s still not working.


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## Throbbing Angel (Dec 15, 2022)

is the app stating that the password is incorrect?

I assume you mean the Apple Mail app, yes


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## Looby (Dec 15, 2022)

Throbbing Angel said:


> is the app stating that the password is incorrect?
> 
> I assume you mean the Apple Mail app, yes
> View attachment 355830


No it says there’s no password entered. Yes it’s the apple mail. app.


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## Throbbing Angel (Dec 15, 2022)

Looby said:


> No it says there’s no password entered. Yes it’s the apple mail app.


OK

Does this answer your question. Problems accessing your Sky.com email from your email app | Sky Help | Sky.com


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## Throbbing Angel (Dec 15, 2022)

And which iOS and mail app versions are you using?


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## neonwilderness (Dec 15, 2022)

Maybe try deleting the account in settings then adding it again?


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## Looby (Dec 15, 2022)

Throbbing Angel said:


> And which iOS and mail app versions are you using?


The latest ones. I’ve updated everything and checked again today while I was transferring my apps etc over. 

I had seen the instructions above but didn’t spot the ‘generate password’ bit so will try that now. Thanks.


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## Looby (Dec 15, 2022)

neonwilderness said:


> Maybe try deleting the account in settings then adding it again?


Yeah, done that twice.


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## Looby (Dec 15, 2022)

Throbbing Angel said:


> OK
> 
> Does this answer your question. Problems accessing your Sky.com email from your email app | Sky Help | Sky.com


I think this has worked, thanks again. 😊

ETA-maybe not. I can only see a few sent and junk. Just sent myself a test email to see if that comes through.


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## sim667 (Dec 25, 2022)

I was looking at getting an iPhone 14 pro the other day, planning to do it on the Barclays two year partner finance, but then realised it was £10 more to get it on the upgrade program which is paying across 20 months and you can upgrade it after 11 if you so wish, and it adds up to exactly the same cost, but applecare is included. 

It’s the most I’ve ever paid for a phone and the most monthly I’ve ever paid but it’s a lovely device. I’ve been playing with the LiDAR stuff too


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## Throbbing Angel (Jan 1, 2023)

Hiya,

I have an old iPhone 5 that lil'Angel would like to use as her spare phone - mainly because it won't do a lot of stuff that she wastes time on (her words) such as Instagram etc. I think this is because it was the last of the 32-bit iPhones iirc, anyway...

The phone is perfect - it has lain in a drawer unused with the cellophane still on the screen since 2008 I think[Looong Story].
It charges and holds a charge well. So I tested it by logging in with *my* Apple details. All good.* Now I want to reset the iPhone for her but cannot.* 
It keeps telling me that the Apple Password I'm using is incorrect - but it isn't.  It is the password I use on my MacBook and iPad. So I changed the password, just in case, still not accepted.

What's the crack?

My Mac has informed me that a new device is using this, that and the other services/apps such as FaceTime etc. So my Apple account knows about the phone and has linked it to the same account. My .me emails have appeared in Mail.app

Any advice on how to wipe and reset in this circumstance would be appreciated.


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## cybershot (Tuesday at 8:08 PM)

Smashed the back of my iPhone 14 Pro, but was lucky enough that it was within the 60 days to still get AppleCare+, which you can just pay monthly for and cancel at anytime.

Visit to the Apple Store, £25 and an hour later it's fully repaired

*Would have cost over £500 without the AppleCare+


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## T & P (Tuesday at 9:15 PM)

Throbbing Angel said:


> Hiya,
> 
> I have an old iPhone 5 that lil'Angel would like to use as her spare phone - mainly because it won't do a lot of stuff that she wastes time on (her words) such as Instagram etc. I think this is because it was the last of the 32-bit iPhones iirc, anyway...
> 
> ...


Not an iPhone geek, but I suspect Apple might have long withdrawn support and software updates for a fifth gen iPhone. Which could be the reason for your troubles. But then again I could be talking bollocks.


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