# Elementary - Sherlock Holmes CBS Spin Off Series



## Badgers (Oct 19, 2012)

Bit more SH cash in with Jonny Lee Miller as Sherlock Holmes and Lucy Liu as Watson. I like most things SH related but seems to be a bit overkill. Will watch it of course and the reviews (while generally mixed) are quite positive for Jonny Lee Miller, although he will never be Benedict Cumberbatch or Jeremy Brett I would guess. 

No UK 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/oct/17/elementary-cbs-jonny-lee-miller



> The set-up for the show sounded tortuous, too: Miller's Sherlock Holmes is a modern-day Londoner living in New York, fresh out of rehab and acting as a "consultant" to the NYPD. Watson is a former surgeon kicked out of medicine after a malpractice suit and employed as Holmes' full-time sponsor by his wealthy father. They live together in an adorable brownstone and skip around town solving crimes.
> 
> It shouldn't work, it really shouldn't. But on the evidence of the first two shows – the third airs on Thursday night – it is one of the best things on network TV.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2012)

Watchable nonsense this. Lucy Liu makes a less irritating Watson than Martin Freeman, but other than that it's not a patch on Moffat's version.


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## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2012)

> It's a buddy show – one of the only mixed sex pairings I can think of on TV


Bones, The Mentalist, Castle - off the top of my head.

Give me this woman's job.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Oct 19, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Bones, The Mentalist, Castle - off the top of my head.
> 
> Give me this woman's job.


 
Hart to Hart, Moonlighting, Remington Steele, Dempsey and Makepeace...it's hardly a new phenomenon.

Give LC this woman's job!


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## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2012)

X-fucking-Files!


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## kittyP (Oct 19, 2012)

I am with Spooky Frank. Watchable nonsense. 

I love Jeremy Brett's version most. 
I actually quite liked Cumberbatch. 

If this was on I would probably get quite in to it whilst still thinking it's a bit shit, coz that's how I roll.


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## Balham (Oct 19, 2012)

Read all the books and I am a Jeremy Brett fan also. He _was_ Holmes. David Burke and Edward Hardwicke were excellent as Watson and Colin Jeavons was a good Insp Lestrade. And Charles Gray who played Mycroft was deliciously dodgy.


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## editor (Oct 19, 2012)

Jeremy Brett can never be bettered. That is all.


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## telbert (Oct 19, 2012)

Balham said:


> Read all the books and I am a Jeremy Brett fan also. He _was_ Holmes. David Burke and Edward Hardwicke were excellent as Watson and Colin Jeavons was a good Insp Lestrade. And Charles Gray who played Mycroft was deliciously dodgy.


This sums up the Granada T.V.series in a nutshell.It'll never be bettered.


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## Santino (Oct 19, 2012)

Some of the acting in the Jeremy Brett version is a bit dodgy. In retrospect.


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## telbert (Oct 19, 2012)

Santino said:


> Some of the acting in the Jeremy Brett version is a bit dodgy. In retrospect.


Yeah, maybe in some of the latter episodes, but you must remember by the time he was filming Memoirs he was quite seriously ill(i've heard the phrase "over egging the pudding" a few times when talking about this ) but i can find no fault in any others.


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## Santino (Oct 19, 2012)

telbert said:


> Yeah, maybe in some of the latter episodes, but you must remember by the time he was filming Memoirs he was quite seriously ill(i've heard the phrase "over egging the pudding" a few times when talking about this ) but i can find no fault in any others.


I didn't mean him. I meant the jobbing actors doing their best Victorian melodrama.


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## telbert (Oct 19, 2012)

Santino said:


> I didn't mean him. I meant the jobbing actors doing their best Victorian melodrama.


Oh right,sorry. I know what you mean then. The Resident Patient springs to mind.Although if victorian melodrama is your thing(i dont mind a bit of ham myself on occasion ) have a look at  the Peter Cushing  version of The Blue Carbuncle.


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## belboid (Oct 20, 2012)

Brett was crap. Dry and flat period drama. Dull.


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## Bungle73 (Oct 22, 2012)

It's not a "spin off". It's a completely new series.


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## Badgers (Oct 22, 2012)

Bungle73 said:


> It's not a "spin off".


 
I should have written 'twist' or 'update' on the plot maybe?


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## Reno (Oct 22, 2012)

Sherlock Holmes CBS 'rival' series


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## Badgers (Oct 22, 2012)

Reno said:


> Sherlock Holmes CBS 'rival' series


 
Sherlock 'revamp' according to the link in the OP. Who can be sure in these crazy times eh?


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## Santino (Oct 22, 2012)

It's actually a re-working of House but with crimes instead of diseases.


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## Reno (Oct 22, 2012)

Santino said:


> It's actually a re-working of House but with crimes instead of diseases.


 
I seems like every second US series is these days, featuring an "eccentric" maverick with method to his/her madness.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Oct 22, 2012)

Reno said:


> I seems like every second US series is these days, featuring an "eccentric" maverick with method to his/her madness.


 
They're all re-writes of Columbo. which was probably a rewrite of something else.


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## Reno (Oct 22, 2012)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> They're all re-writes of Columbo. which was probably a rewrite of something else.


 
It was a re-write of Sherlock Holmes


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## Yuwipi Woman (Oct 22, 2012)

Reno said:


> It was a re-write of Sherlock Holmes


 
Of course.


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## Corax (Oct 22, 2012)

Holmes in the US, with a girl Watson? That can fuck right off.

I'll probably end up watching it anyway


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## Yuwipi Woman (Oct 22, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> Watchable nonsense this. Lucy Liu makes a less irritating Watson than Martin Freeman, but other than that it's not a patch on Moffat's version.


 
I haven't decided if I like it or not. I think you're mainly right in the above. I hate it when they simplify plotlines, etc. for the US market. People here ate up the Moffat version.


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 22, 2012)

Coming soon:

_Alimentary_ - a maverick former cordon bleu chef blacklisted by Michelin becomes a freelance caterer-for-hire, waging a war on two fronts against poor kitchen hygiene and jaded taste buds, assisted by ex-listings magazine writer What's On John and environmental health inspector Les Trade.

Episode one: The Baker Street Irregular Bowel Movements


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 22, 2012)

A couple of things really annoyed me about this show. The first is the recovering addict angle, which seems like a simple contrivance with no actual bearing on the way Holmes' character is written or portrayed.  It's just something they threw in to justify the presence of the Watson character and to create some kind of edginess and a sense of being different to the BBC version.

Another thing is the references to google, a crude hook added to modernise the character a bit. It feels like a clumsier version of Cumberbatch's obsession with text messages, something which unlike the google thing was actually relevant to the plot on several occasions.


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## Reno (Oct 22, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> A couple of things really annoyed me about this show. The first is the recovering addict angle, which seems like a simple contrivance with no actual bearing on the way Holmes' character is written or portrayed. It's just something they threw in to justify the presence of the Watson character and to create some kind of edginess and a sense of being different to the BBC version.


 
In the books Holmes did coke and morphine habitually and Watson found that objectionable. Surely updating him means acknowledging how attitudes to recreational drug use have changed.


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 22, 2012)

Make him a meph head who locks himself in his room to binge and 'fiddle with his violin'.


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 22, 2012)

Reno said:


> Holmes did coke and morphine habitually and Watson objected to that. Surely updating him means acknowledging how attitudes to drug taking have changed.


 

I don't have a problem with Holmes being a recovering drug addict, like you say the original character was notorious coke fiend. What bothers me is that Holmes as Miller plays him just doesn't seem like a recovering drug addict, just someone who is obliged to go to NA meetings because it says so in the script.


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## Reno (Oct 22, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't have a problem with Holmes being a recovering drug addict, like you say the original character was notorious coke fiend. What bothers me is that Holmes as Miller plays him just doesn't seem like a recovering drug addict, just someone who is obliged to go to NA meetings because it says so in the script.


 
Are all recovering addicts the same ? Not in my experience and much of the time they can be functional people (I was). In any case, the point is that in this it is mainly the thing that gets him together with Watson. Might be a bit boring if the series spent too much time on it and it may well get explored in future episodes.


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## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2012)

Um, dunno where others have been watching it, but it's starting on Sky Living in 15 mins.


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## Corax (Oct 23, 2012)

Lord Camomile said:


> Um, dunno where others have been watching it, but it's starting on Sky Living in 15 mins.


You watch stuff on your _*telly?  *_


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## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2012)

I'm old-school and curmudgeonly.

And my laptop is borked after its last update.


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## T & P (Oct 23, 2012)

Well... meh. Watchable enough but not a patch on our Sherlock.


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## Yuwipi Woman (Oct 23, 2012)

Corax said:


> You watch stuff on your _*telly?  *_


 
I do.  I'm too cheap to pay for either internet or cable.


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## Lord Camomile (Oct 23, 2012)

T & P said:


> Well... meh. Watchable enough but not a patch on our Sherlock.


Yuuuup, pretty much.

One key aspect of Sherlock adaps are his deductions, and they were a bit naff in this first episode. I'll prob still watch next time tho...


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## T & P (Oct 23, 2012)

Agreed. It lacks the extra spark of genius the British Sherlock has, and the case's challenges and riddles weren't nearly as puzzling. It reminded me of The Mentalist, actually.

Still, as you say, worth sticking to for the time being.


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## T & P (Nov 13, 2012)

Anyone still watching? I'm enjoying them, and would dare say they've been getting better. Not great, but quite watchable.


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## DexterTCN (Nov 13, 2012)

It's actually quite interesting.   Subtle comedy, now and then too.


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## telbert (Nov 14, 2012)

Yeah i've been  watching.As someone that isn't that keen on american telly and a massive S.H. fan to boot ,i've been pleasantly surprised.
Good effort.B+.


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## kittyP (Mar 14, 2013)

telbert said:


> Yeah i've been watching.As someone that isn't that keen on american telly and a massive S.H. fan to boot ,i've been pleasantly surprised.
> Good effort.B+.


 
Oh good. I am attempting to download it.


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## Badgers (Mar 14, 2013)

kittyP said:
			
		

> Oh good. I am attempting to download it.



Quick quick


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## telbert (Mar 15, 2013)

Tried to watch last weeks episode with Vinny Jones in.Had to turn over when he said to the brass"leave off love,im watching the Arsenal".I recorded it though so might give it another go this week.


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## T & P (May 8, 2013)

Anyone still watching? Impressed by it, has turned out to be rather enjoyable viewing with good character development. Second Moriarty (and Vinnie) episode this week.


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## zenie (May 8, 2013)

I enjoyed the ones I saw, but think the hour format as opposed to the longer Sherlock dramatisation means it feels very rushed.

I also really like the dynamics between Miller and Liu...


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## Lea (May 8, 2013)

I watched  all episodes downloaded when I stayed at a friend's back in March but can't watch anymore because I don't have Sky and don't know how to download. :-( 

Really enjoyed the series so far.


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## DexterTCN (May 9, 2013)

Yes, I'm still watching it.  Miller has a created a nice (well, not nice, nicely annoying) version of Holmes although as zenie says it's a little short.


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## telbert (May 21, 2013)

Fuck.I didn't see that coming.


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## DexterTCN (May 21, 2013)

If it was a normal american cop show I would have seen that coming miles away.


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## telbert (May 21, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> If it was a normal american cop show I would have seen that coming miles away.


 

Well to be fair its not a normal american cop show,if it was then i doubt i would have watched.Then again i'm a massive fan of S.H. anyway so even if there were to be a programme showing the Hairy Fucking Bikers cooking  "what Sherlock would have eaten in the olden days",i'd probably fucking wacth it.


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## DexterTCN (May 21, 2013)

They're not capable of knowing that answer. 

It threw me because it was entirely different from other interpretations.   Not that I'm totally believing it yet.


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## DexterTCN (May 22, 2013)

I didn't know there was still one to go.


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## equationgirl (May 24, 2013)

I really like it.


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## T & P (May 24, 2013)

Good twist. Didn't see it coming.


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## telbert (May 28, 2013)

Well there you have it.Not an entirely bad end to the series.Would Have like to have seen a greater reference to the original story,Holmes in disguise making Adler/Moriarty reveal some great secret by stealth and cunning, (although now i think of it, perhaps thats exactly what the hospital bed scene was)..Also i would have loved the ending to have involved "the sovereign" in some way.Yeah a bit weak as it happens.
Hmm. Now i'm starting to pick it to pieces again.
Still, the bee thing was quite nice.
 Fuck it ,i'm gonna watch The Priory School now with J.B.


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## T & P (May 28, 2013)

I had perhaps hoped for a more dramatic climax, but overall I really enjoyed the series. Let's see if they can keep it up for series 2.


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## Bungle73 (Oct 30, 2013)

Saw, in the first of the new series, they did a "London" episode.  And in a break from the usual with US TV series, they actually did film it in London. I spotted the Trafalgar Tavern in Greenwich masquerading under a different name. "New Scotland Yard" was actually some building by the Thames.  Various other London locations, and at the end they got onto a Heathrow Express at Paddington.  Also had a guest appearance from Sean Pertwee.


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## Badgers (Oct 30, 2013)

Bungle73 said:
			
		

> Saw, in the first of the new series, they did a "London" episode.  And in a break from the usual with US TV series, they actually did film it in London. I spotted the Trafalgar Tavern in Greenwich masquerading under a different name. "New Scotland Yard" was actually some building by the Thames.  Various other London locations, and at the end they got onto a Heathrow Express at Paddington.  Also had a guest appearance from Sean Pertwee.



Was it good?


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## Bungle73 (Oct 30, 2013)

It was ok. Mycroft and Lestrade popped up.


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## pesh (Oct 30, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Saw, in the first of the new series, they did a "London" episode.  And in a break from the usual with US TV series, they actually did film it in London. I spotted the Trafalgar Tavern in Greenwich masquerading under a different name. "New Scotland Yard" was actually some building by the Thames.  Various other London locations, and at the end they got onto a Heathrow Express at Paddington.  Also had a guest appearance from Sean Pertwee.


when i watched that i was wondering why london looks so good in HD but so grey and miserable to my lying standard definition eyes


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## 8den (Oct 30, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> It was ok. Mycroft and Lestrade popped up.



Mycroft was well shit. 

What I like about Moffat's Sherlock is they dropped many elements from the original characters but accentuated other parts of their characters. 

Conan Doyle's Sherlock is rude and abrasive, but Moffat's Sherlock is a borderline sociopath.

Everyone forgets the fact that in Conan's Sherlock Watson is living with Sherlock because he fucking loves it. The murders the mystery etc. Moffat's Watson is a practically a adrenaline junkie, and he puts up with Sherlock's behaviour because it's the most alive he's felt since combat. 

And Mycroft and yes Moffat isn't the 1st one who ignores the fat lazy Mycroft, and focuses on Mycroft the grandmaster spy, but they do it well. 

There are many many many things I don't like about Elementary. It's House like (yes it's meta) of the sudden epiphany in the last 5 minutes where either Holmes or Watson suddenly react to a new piece of information that makes the whole case make sense, it's terribly meta, House was based on Sherlock Holmes, Elementary is Sherlock Holmes only to the House formula. It's a human centipede of television. 

But fuck me, Elementary's Mycroft was just a fucking waste. Okay you can't make him a uber spy, but instead you make him a fucking restaurateur? You focus on the indolent and lazy side of Mycroft when there's so much more to him than that. 

I don't like Elementary is what I'm saying.


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## 8den (Oct 30, 2013)

pesh said:


> when i watched that i was wondering why london looks so good in HD but so grey and miserable to my lying standard definition eyes



Oh god and that was terrible. The whole montage as they drove through London, the london eye, picadilly circus, buck palace, not since "Friends" did the London episode was such a egregious and crass attempt  by produces to wave their check book in their audience's faces and say "oh my god we're HERE IN LONDON". One wonders why Sherlock and Holmes didn't pass by a couple of pearly queens.


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## kittyP (Oct 30, 2013)

Bungle73 said:
			
		

> Saw, in the first of the new series, they did a "London" episode.  And in a break from the usual with US TV series, they actually did film it in London. I spotted the Trafalgar Tavern in Greenwich masquerading under a different name. "New Scotland Yard" was actually some building by the Thames.  Various other London locations, and at the end they got onto a Heathrow Express at Paddington.  Also had a guest appearance from Sean Pertwee.



New new episodes?


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## DexterTCN (Oct 31, 2013)

kittyP said:


> New new episodes?


Yes.  2nd one was last night, repeated Friday I think.


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## joustmaster (Nov 1, 2013)

Last nights episode includes the english swearing - "bell end"


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## T & P (Feb 18, 2014)

Part II of the new series just started tonight. Good episode too.

And I believe we haven't seen the last of Moriarti yet


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## DexterTCN (Feb 18, 2014)

I fail to see how it's Sherlock's fault if someone jumps in front of him.


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## tim (Feb 19, 2014)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> They're all re-writes of Columbo. which was probably a rewrite of something else.



And had its own rather cynical rewrite, as can be seen here.


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## Pickman's model (Feb 19, 2014)

8den said:


> Mycroft was well shit.
> 
> What I like about Moffat's Sherlock is they dropped many elements from the original characters but accentuated other parts of their characters.
> 
> ...


that's because you want it to be what it isn't.


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## kittyP (Feb 19, 2014)

T & P said:
			
		

> Part II of the new series just started tonight. Good episode too.
> 
> And I believe we haven't seen the last of Moriarti yet



Oh it was a two parter? 
I've been torrenting them and we thought it was a bit lame for a season finale


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## bouncer_the_dog (Feb 19, 2014)

I wonder if it will start off brilliantly and then descend into self indulgent twaddle


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## Bungle73 (Feb 25, 2014)

DexterTCN said:


> I fail to see how it's Sherlock's fault if someone jumps in front of him.


Because the guy wouldn't have been coming at them with a gun at all if Holmes hadn't fucked up.


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## DexterTCN (Feb 25, 2014)

Bungle73 said:


> Because the guy wouldn't have been coming at them with a gun at all if Holmes hadn't fucked up.


Nah.  If Bell chooses to take a bullet for Holmes...he is not allowed to pull the huff if he gets shot.


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## Badgers (May 25, 2014)

I hate to say it but I am enjoying this morning than the current BBC series....


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## Nine Bob Note (Jun 15, 2022)

Couldv'e sworn I'd replied to this thread multiple times when I was watching the show for the first time, but I've just started a rewatch and am loving it just as much as I did the first time


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