# Is it fractionMan's fault?



## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

Students across Wales are experiencing problems logging in to their library resources because of a problem with Shibboleth. What's your diagnosis fractionMan, or were you to blame?


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## danny la rouge (Jul 21, 2010)

Egg and chips between the keys, I think.


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## Crispy (Jul 21, 2010)

Is this a callout? I can't tell


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## danny la rouge (Jul 21, 2010)

Yes.  Outside fM.


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## DotCommunist (Jul 21, 2010)

fM is going to get carparked


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## marty21 (Jul 21, 2010)

you are a 'Chartered IT Profressional

you sort it out


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## editor (Jul 21, 2010)

marty21 said:


> you are a 'Chartered IT Profressional
> 
> you sort it out


He's not just a 'Chartered IT Professional '

He's also a self trumpeted "leading public figure in the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic solutions to issues affecting techno-cultural communities, both organic and virtual. A pioneer in educational technology and online community development." 

And he's an incredibly modest and not even slightly self deluded "leading public figure in the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic solutions to issues affecting techno-cultural communities, both organic and virtual. A pioneer in educational technology and online community development"  too.


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## danny la rouge (Jul 21, 2010)

marty21 said:


> you are a 'Chartered IT Profressional
> 
> you sort it out


What is he, a good Samaritan?  He can't say what the problem is.


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## fogbat (Jul 21, 2010)

It might be my colleague's fault, actually. Got a link to the story, Jonathan?


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

fogbat said:


> It might be my colleague's fault, actually. Got a link to the story, Jonathan?


 
I can't find anything on Shibboleth's website, but I and a few other researchers have had problems accessing journals etc. I thought the self-proclaimed identity management expert fractionMan would be closer to the ground and know what's gone on.


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## Blagsta (Jul 21, 2010)

you're that lunatic aren't you


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

Blagsta said:


> you're that lunatic aren't you


 
No, you're confusing me with my best friend: http://markbeech.org.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I can't find anything on Shibboleth's website, but I and a few other researchers have had problems accessing journals etc. I thought the self-proclaimed identity management expert fractionMan would be closer to the ground and know what's gone on.


I would have thought a self proclaimed 'Internet Expert' (lol) like you would have all the answers and wouldn't have to stoop as low as starting snarky threads here. Oh well. 

You never did answer post up that link where you had supposedly been recognised as a Top 10 UK Innovator by the New Statesman". 

Could you post it up now please?


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## editor (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I can't find anything on Shibboleth's website, but I and a few other researchers have had problems accessing journals etc. I thought the self-proclaimed identity management expert fractionMan would be closer to the ground and know what's gone on.


I would have thought a self proclaimed 'Internet Expert' (lol) like you would have all the answers and wouldn't have to stoop as low as starting snarky threads here. Oh well. 

You never did answer post up that link where you had supposedly been recognised as a Top 10 UK Innovator by the New Statesman". 

Could you post it up now please?


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## marty21 (Jul 21, 2010)

editor said:


> He's not just a 'Chartered IT Professional '
> 
> He's also a self trumpeted "leading public figure in the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic solutions to issues affecting techno-cultural communities, both organic and virtual. A pioneer in educational technology and online community development."
> 
> And he's an incredibly modest and not even slightly self deluded "leading public figure in the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic solutions to issues affecting techno-cultural communities, both organic and virtual. A pioneer in educational technology and online community development"  too.


 
he sounds spiffing


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

editor said:


> You never did answer post up that link where you had supposedly been recognised as a Top 10 UK Innovator by the New Statesman".
> 
> Could you post it up now please?


 
I don't think its online any longer, however these accolades are:
http://top25.sciencedirect.com/subj...mputers-in-human-behavior/07475632/archive/12
http://www.feverbee.com/2009/10/8-brilliant-posts-about-online-communities.html


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## editor (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I don't think its online any longer, however these accolades are:


So you can't actually back that claim up, which may lead some to think you may have made it up...

Here's your own words:



> it were not for lecturers such as Ray Kingdon and Nigel Stanton pointing Jonathan in the right direction he may have never honed his programming skills to the extent that he could constantly evolve with the changing times to produce new Internet applications and go on to be recognised as a* Top 10 UK Innovator by the NewStatesman*.



Those other article links are absolutely irrelevant, btw.


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

editor said:


> So you can't actually back that claim up, which may lead some to think you may have made it up...
> 
> Here's your own words:
> 
> ...



he's good at irrelevent links. I caugtht him out with one in his last thread


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 21, 2010)

Gawd, is he back?

I hope he realises that every time he posts here he helps Google make him look like an arse.


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

editor said:


> So you can't actually back that claim up, which may lead some to think you may have made it up...



The only things I can still find online are these links:
http://www.newstatesman.com/nma/nma2004/nma2004shortlist.htm - look under Innovation/PARLE
http://www.newstatesman.com/pdf/nma2004supp.pdf - search for Councillor Jonathan Bishop



editor said:


> Those other article links are absolutely irrelevant, btw.



They go to the credibility of your claim that I am not an expert in online communities, when those in the field know I am. The well respected Jenny Preece cites my work. IBM and Parc researchers cite my work. My work has been quoted in graduate dissertations in many languages.
As a Chartered IT Professional I could lose that status if I claim to be an expert in something I'm not. I don't claim to be an expert in identity management as fractionMan claims to be, but I do claim to be in online communities and e-learning, and I think you should accept that, as those in the know do.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 21, 2010)

Nobody cares. Go away.


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> They go to the credibility of your claim that I am not an expert in online communities, when those in the field know I am. The well respected Jenny Preece cites my work. IBM and Parc researchers cite my work. My work has been quoted in graduate dissertations in many languages.


 
without context, knowing you have been quoted is irrelevant. for all we know, you're being quoted as how not to do it.


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Gawd, is he back?
> 
> I hope he realises that every time he posts here he helps Google make him look like an arse.



for an expert, he's fucking stupid


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Nobody cares. Go away.


 
please don't take our fun away


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## ddraig (Jul 21, 2010)

it's back! 
go to work mods, make it squeal


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

toggle said:


> for an expert, he's fucking stupid


 
Well, thanks to this forum I am now more prominent in Google's search rankings, so I'm not complaining!


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Well, thanks to this forum I am now more prominent in Google's search rankings, so I'm not complaining!


 
so you like looking like a complete tit. how very good that you're such an expert at it


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 21, 2010)

I'm concerned about what happens to the reputations of other people who happen to be called Jonathan Bishop, though. They might end up appearing to be rude and ignorant through no fault of their own. Could Urban be liable?


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## DotCommunist (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Well, thanks to this forum I* am now more prominent in Google*'s search rankings, so I'm not complaining!



Is this what we have come to?


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## editor (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Well, thanks to this forum I am now more prominent in Google's search rankings, so I'm not complaining!


Yes, and anyone clicking on that link will find that just about every person who's interacted with you on this forum - which is infinitely bigger and more successful than anything you've ever created - thinks you're a prick, and quite possibly a liar. 

Nice work, internet expert!


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

editor said:


> just about every person who's interacted with you on this forum (...) thinks you're (...) quite possibly a liar.


 
With a resume as long and accomplished as mine I have no need to lie - maybe you just can't handle the truth?


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## fogbat (Jul 21, 2010)

If you're genuinely concerned about Shib issues for researchers in Wales, and not just a bit confused, and engaged in pointscoring, do let me know.


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## weepiper (Jul 21, 2010)

it's ramjamclub!!


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> With a resume as long and accomplished as mine I have no need to lie - maybe you just can't handle the truth?


 
oh, another one with a direct line in 'truth-tm'


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

weepiper said:


> it's ramjamclub!!


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## fogbat (Jul 21, 2010)

weepiper said:


> it's ramjamclub!!


 


Read his previous thread. Comedy gold.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> With a resume as long and accomplished as mine I have no need to lie - maybe you just can't handle the truth?


With your ongoing failure to produce a scrap of supporting evidence, I'm certainly having trouble accepting your claim that you were "recognised as a Top 10 UK Innovator by the New Statesman." What year was this? And why can't a self proclaimed internet expert like you find a single link?


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

fogbat said:


> If you're genuinely concerned about Shib issues for researchers in Wales, and not just a bit confused, and engaged in pointscoring, do let me know.


 
Actually, I was hoping fractionMan would respond, as on another thread he said that part of his job was implimenting Shib networks. Of course, I wanted to use the difficulty other researchers and I have experienced to tease him about his claimed expertise, but I did actually want to know what the recent problems were caused by, and would expect him to know.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Actually, I was hoping fractionMan would respond, as on another thread he said that part of his job was implimenting Shib networks. Of course, I wanted to use the difficulty other researchers and I have experienced to tease him about his claimed expertise, but I did actually want to know what the recent problems were caused by, and would expect him to know.


I would have thought a self proclaimed internet expert like you would have realised that a PM would be the most effective way to conduct a private conversation with an individual poster and that 'call out' threads are against the rules here.


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## tar1984 (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I don't claim to be an expert in identity management as fractionMan claims to be, but I do claim to be in online communities and e-learning, and I think you should accept that, as those in the know do.



If you were an expert in online communities you wouldn't be posting this shit, it makes you look really bad.  You managed to turn a whole online community against you in less than 50 posts ffs.  

It's funny though, so please, continue.


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

editor said:


> I would have thought a self proclaimed internet expert like you would have realised that a PM would be the most effective way to conduct a private conversation with an individual poster and that 'call out' threads are against the rules here.


 
Well I apologise for breaking the rules. I'll have to send you my working paper on 'sysop prerogative', which I wrote as a result of the extensive discussion on the other thread.




			
				editor said:
			
		

> I'd rather see a link to the New Statesman's site where you're being honoured as a ''Top 10 UK Innovator. Why is an internet expert like you finding it so difficult to source this link?
> 
> Oh, by the way. Did I ever tell you I wrote for the New Statesman and was also a judge on one of their awards panels?



If you look at this link:
http://www.newstatesman.com/nma/nma2004/nma2004shortlist.htm
You'll see my invention is in the Top 10 of the Innovation category


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## editor (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Well I apologise for breaking the rules. I'll have to send you my working paper on 'sysop prerogative', which I wrote as a result of the extensive discussion on the other thread.


I'd rather see a link to the New Statesman's site where you're being honoured as a ''Top 10 UK Innovator. Why is an internet expert like you finding it so difficult to source this link?

Oh, by the way. Did I ever tell you I wrote for the New Statesman and was also a judge on one of their awards panels?


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

tar1984 said:


> You managed to turn a whole online community against you in less than 50 posts ffs.



That's because I'm a 'Big Man', which the 'Snerts' like to bait and flame. You can read about it in this book:
http://www.igi-global.com/bookstore/TitleDetails.aspx?TitleId=909&DetailsType=Chapters


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## ddraig (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Well I apologise for breaking the rules. I'll have to send you my working paper on 'sysop prerogative', which I wrote as a result of the extensive discussion on the other thread.


 
link us all up with your 'sysop prerogative' whatever that is that you can't spell!
loon


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## editor (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> That's because I'm a 'Big Man', which the 'Snerts' like to bait and flame.


Sorry, but compared to some contributors here, you're nothing but inconsequential small fry and no amount of randomly spewed links will alter that fact.

The reaction to you here has been entirely based on your words and your conduct, and has nothing to do with your supposed "achievements."


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

ddraig said:


> link us all up with your 'sysop prerogative' whatever that is that you can't spell!
> loon


 
It is spelled perfectly correctly. Sysop prerogative is all the powers a systems operator of an online community has which hasn't been taken away from them by law or given away by them by contract. They can delegate this to administators or moderators, as in the case of this community, or give it to the members, as Cliff Figallo did with The WELL.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 21, 2010)

editor said:


> I would have thought a self proclaimed internet expert like you would have realised that a PM would be the most effective way to conduct a private conversation with an individual poster and that 'call out' threads are against the rules here.


 
One might almost conclude that he knows nothing about the operation of internet (or other) communities at all.

But wait - what if it's all a cunning plan to generate a profile of "what not to do if you don't want to look like an arse on google"?


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## tar1984 (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> That's because I'm a 'Big Man', which the 'Snerts' like to bait and flame. You can read about it in this book:
> http://www.igi-global.com/bookstore/TitleDetails.aspx?TitleId=909&DetailsType=Chapters



Er...am I mistaken or does that book cost almost 2,000 dollars?  Wat?

Anyway, you're not a 'big man' and it's foolish to perceive yourself that way.  This is an internet forum, it's an even playing field and we are judged on what we contribute, not our qualifications.  Your 'achievements' mean nothing to me, the fact you keep banging on about them is what irks.


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## tar1984 (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I'll have to send you my working paper on 'sysop prerogative', which I wrote as a result of the extensive discussion on the other thread.


 
Is it about how banning you would breach your fundamental human rights?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Well I apologise for breaking the rules. I'll have to send you my working paper on 'sysop prerogative', which I wrote as a result of the extensive discussion on the other thread.










jonathanbishop said:


> If you look at this link:
> http://www.newstatesman.com/nma/nma2004/nma2004shortlist.htm
> You'll see my invention is in the Top 10 of the Innovation category


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

tar1984 said:


> Anyway, you're not a 'big man' and it's foolish to perceive yourself that way.  This is an internet forum, it's an even playing field and we are judged on what we contribute, not our qualifications.  Your 'achievements' mean nothing to me, the fact you keep banging on about them is what irks.



A Big Man is the person in an online community who unites the community through acting as a focal point for their anti-social desires. They will always try to assert their opinion and will wade into conflicts and resolve them by uniting those who were arguing against them. They try to use logic to counter others banter, when the conversation is more like banter than a dispute in need of resolution. They have one truth - theirs, and expect others to accept it, which they are often not willing to do. Typical things sysop Big Men do is to try and keep conversations on topic and enforce rules.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 21, 2010)

Fuck off back to 1997 and The Well, eh?


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

tar1984 said:


> Is it about how banning you would breach your fundamental human rights?


 
Well the Human Rights Act extends sysop prerogative to give sysops the right to refuse anyone membership on any grounds except where otherwise illegal. An example where the state would be able to override the decision of a sysop to exclude someone would be if a F1 site in the UK supporting Lewis Hamilton excluded someone because they were Spanish and supported Alonso, for instance.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Well the Human Rights Act extends sysop prerogative to give sysops the right to refuse anyone membership on any grounds except where otherwise illegal. An example where the state would be able to override the decision of a sysop to exclude someone would be if a F1 site in the UK supporting Lewis Hamilton excluded someone because they were Spanish and supported Alonso, for instance.


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

tar1984 said:


> Er...am I mistaken or does that book cost almost 2,000 dollars?  Wat?
> 
> Anyway, you're not a 'big man' and it's foolish to perceive yourself that way.  This is an internet forum, it's an even playing field and we are judged on what we contribute, not our qualifications.  Your 'achievements' mean nothing to me, the fact you keep banging on about them is what irks.


 


it is entirely possible there is nothing in the book relevant, looking at the title of the article, which seems to be on revenue generation through online communities, i would suspect this is the case. He tried putting up PPV journal links until he realised that some of us have athens accounts and can see he's taking arse. now, he is going for referencing books we can't get hold of.


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Well the Human Rights Act extends sysop prerogative to give sysops the right to refuse anyone membership on any grounds except where otherwise illegal. An example where the state would be able to override the decision of a sysop to exclude someone would be if a F1 site in the UK supporting Lewis Hamilton excluded someone because they were Spanish and supported Alonso, for instance.


 
does the human rights act specifically mention sysops?

if it does not, perhaps you would care to reference a case where sysop privalages in an online community have been chalenged under the human rights act.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Read his previous thread. Comedy gold.



Thread of the year so far.


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> A Big Man is the person in an online community who unites the community through acting as a focal point for their anti-social desires. They will always try to assert their opinion and will wade into conflicts and resolve them by uniting those who were arguing against them. They try to use logic to counter others banter, when the conversation is more like banter than a dispute in need of resolution. They have one truth - theirs, and expect others to accept it, which they are often not willing to do. Typical things sysop Big Men do is to try and keep conversations on topic and enforce rules.


 
do big men post irrelevent links?


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## DotCommunist (Jul 21, 2010)

I like this one, can he stay? 

He may provide epic beef.


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

toggle said:


> it is entirely possible there is nothing in the book relevant, looking at the title of the article, which seems to be on revenue generation through online communities, i would suspect this is the case. He tried putting up PPV journal links until he realised that some of us have athens accounts and can see he's taking arse. now, he is going for referencing books we can't get hold of.



You can read the chapter here without buying the book:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/7710237/B...-Relationships-through-Avatars-and-Characters


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 21, 2010)

toggle said:


> does the human rights act specifically mention sysops?
> 
> if it does not, perhaps you would care to reference a case where sysop privalages in an online community have been chalenged under the human rights act.


 
John Perry Barlow claimed in 1996 that the laws of nation states didn't apply in Cyberspace, suggesting that sysop prerogative was absolute. However it has been shown since then that law including human rights law applies online. 'Sysop prerogative' is a term I've made up, but I might write more about it if I apply to write for this book and I am successful:
http://www.igi-global.com/AuthorsEd...ontentId=a536086f-264e-46dd-87f5-821175837bd4


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> John Perry Barlow claimed in 1996 that the laws of nation states didn't apply in Cyberspace, suggesting that sysop prerogative was absolute. However it has been shown since then that law including human rights law applies online. 'Sysop prerogative' is a term I've made up, but I might write more about it if I apply to write for this book and I am successful:
> http://www.igi-global.com/AuthorsEd...ontentId=a536086f-264e-46dd-87f5-821175837bd4


 
so you cannot provide me with a citation of it actually being used. until you can, it is speculation


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## Blagsta (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Well the Human Rights Act extends sysop prerogative to give sysops the right to refuse anyone membership on any grounds except where otherwise illegal. An example where the state would be able to override the decision of a sysop to exclude someone would be if a F1 site in the UK supporting Lewis Hamilton excluded someone because they were Spanish and supported Alonso, for instance.


 
Interestingly, if you Google "sysop prerogative", the only result you get is this thread.


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## kabbes (Jul 21, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Nobody cares. Go away.


 I care!

I can't believe he actually came back.  It's pure grade-A masochism.

Fraction obviously got under this eejit's skin though.  So much so that the idiot actually bothered to return months and months later when he thought that he might have something to catch him out on.  That's good going, FM, well done on your internet winding-up skills.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jul 21, 2010)

Can I for one just say that JB is very welcome here and is to be encouraged to start threads on whatever he sees fit.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> If you look at this link:
> http://www.newstatesman.com/nma/nma2004/nma2004shortlist.htm
> You'll see my invention is in the Top 10 of the Innovation category


Err, no. They weren't handing out "Top 10" awards and you didn't win anything. You were merely shortlisted with a load of other people and failed miserably to win anything, and it's utterly dishonest to claim otherwise.


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

kabbes said:


> I care!
> 
> I can't believe he actually came back.  It's pure grade-A masochism.
> 
> Fraction obviously got under this eejit's skin though.  So much so that the idiot actually bothered to return months and months later when he thought that he might have something to catch him out on.  That's good going, FM, well done on your internet winding-up skills.


 
sulks.

i shall have to try harder


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## Proper Tidy (Jul 21, 2010)

editor said:


> The reaction to you here has been entirely based on your words and your conduct, and has nothing to do with your supposed "achievements."


 
Tbf, a major part of my dislike for him is that he's a Labour man who despises working class people, the massive narcissistic twat


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## toggle (Jul 21, 2010)

Blagsta said:


> Interestingly, if you Google "sysop prerogative", the only result you get is this thread.


 
it is quite interesting to look at this fro the perspective of analysing a teaching style. He is not prepared to deal with anyone who challenges any of his claims and he is not used to anyone actually reading his citations to see if they actually say something that supports his theories. 

He is the sort of teacher that you can get good grades off by working out what his opinions are and parroting them back at him. unfortunately, this isn't all that uncomon. they tend to get all upset and weeble in a pile in the corner if you point out to the that one of their statements is unsupportable


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## marty21 (Jul 21, 2010)

just wondering if all Chartered IT professionals manage to double post on twitter several times, and not know how to delete them

http://twitter.com/jonathan_bishop?...onathan_bishop&utm_content=15508192021&ref=nf


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## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

I'd like to refer you all to a paper I wrote earlier this year on really runny poos, and the difficulty in properly wiping them away afterwards.

Well, I say wrote. I mean smeared.


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## quimcunx (Jul 22, 2010)

I have no idea what this thread is about but I like it.


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## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

Seems strange that such a self-professed leading public figure in the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic solutions to issues affecting techno-cultural communities, both organic and virtual took so long to register on Twitter (8 August 2008), and that such a "Big Man" in the internet world has only managed to muster a paltry 36 followers in all that time.

It also seems a tad odd that a pioneer in educational technology and online community development has still got a broken "state of the art" homepage with a screwed up text display, months after he was told about it here. Doesn't he know anything about how important a good looking website is to one's online image?


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## teuchter (Jul 22, 2010)

This chap seems to have got certain people rather wound up and suspiciously over-defensive, trying to demonstrate their superior Internet Professional statuses.

This indicates that he's onto something. I suspect there is something going on behind the scenes and will follow this story with interest.

Unfortunately I missed the 'other thread' - can someone post a link?


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## quimcunx (Jul 22, 2010)

It's the Welsh Labour closing down bulletin boards something or other thread. 

Although I'm not sure it will illuminate. 

HTH.


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## Proper Tidy (Jul 22, 2010)

marty21 said:


> just wondering if all Chartered IT professionals manage to double post on twitter several times, and not know how to delete them
> 
> http://twitter.com/jonathan_bishop?...onathan_bishop&utm_content=15508192021&ref=nf


 
I like the way he refers to himself in the third person...



> is not voting for Ed Balls because he criticised Danny Alexander for being a member of Britain in Europe, which Jonathan was also part of



Presumably in an attempt to make the world think he has 'his people'.


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## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> I like the way he refers to himself in the third person...
> 
> 
> 
> Presumably in an attempt to make the world think he has 'his people'.



also, all his tweets get automatically put on his facebook page, I find that annoying and I'm sure other non Chartered IT Professionals agree with me


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## fractionMan (Jul 22, 2010)

wtf.



eta: no it's nothing to do with me or anything I work on.


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## fractionMan (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Actually, I was hoping fractionMan would respond, as on another thread he said that part of his job was implimenting Shib networks. Of course, I wanted to use the difficulty other researchers and I have experienced to tease him about his claimed expertise, but I did actually want to know what the recent problems were caused by, and would expect him to know.


 
This would be a question for the university of wales, who manage their own access and identity infrastructure.

How about you email them?  They might be better placed than someone half way across the country with no access to their systems.  Just a thought like.


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## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> wtf.
> 
> 
> 
> eta: no it's nothing to do with me or anything I work on.


 
it's your fault - blates 

how could you argue with a Chartered IT Professional ? 


you numpty


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## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

You are responsible for the IT in the whole of Wales, you fucker.  And if this problem starts bleeding across the Severn, we'll all know who to blame.


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## fractionMan (Jul 22, 2010)

p.s.

you're fucking nuts.


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## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

I can't understand the lack of respect towards a Chartered IT Professional 

we should be ashamed


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## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

Which is the chartered profession, incidentally, that creates the chartered IT professional?  When did it get its charter?  

Speaking as a member of a profession that got its charter 175 years ago, this all seems frightfully modern.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 22, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Which is the chartered profession, incidentally, that creates the chartered IT professional?  When did it get its charter?
> 
> Speaking as a member of a profession that got its charter 175 years ago, this all seems frightfully modern.


 
the british computer society.

It's pointless though and nobody bothers, except the terminally vain.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

What exams do you have to pass to become the chartered professional?


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> the british computer society.
> 
> It's pointless though and nobody bothers, except the terminally vain.


I'd never even heard of it before Bishop started trumpeting it around here.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 22, 2010)

kabbes said:


> What exams do you have to pass to become the chartered professional?


 
you have to have 5 years experience (10 without a degree) and pass a numpty "Breadth of knowledge" multiple choice exam.

http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=nav.10981


----------



## Fruitloop (Jul 22, 2010)

Wow, that would be ..... totally pointless.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> you have to have 5 years experience (10 without a degree) and pass a numpty "Breadth of knowledge" multiple choice exam.
> 
> http://www.bcs.org/server.php?show=nav.10981


Fuck me.  That's it?  No series of exams that take years' worth of hard slog?  Just hang around long enough and pass a single multiple choice exam.  Brilliant.  Well worth waving THAT bit of paper in peoples' faces.


----------



## magneze (Jul 22, 2010)

Chartered IT professional whose web page doesn't render properly in Firefox. Sign me up now.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

Some professional comment on the title 'Chartered IT Professional':



> I have been a menber of bcs (MBCS) since 1981 and recently was given the Chartered status. My wife has the same grade and at one time was a C.Eng.
> I would say the qualification is worth less than a bucket of cold spit ( typo stopped me writing the an alternative to spit, but it will do).





> In terms of recruitment or suitability for taking on contract positions, being a Chartered Engineer counts for nothing - hence, the Chartered status has no perceived value in the workplace.


http://www.itcontractor.com/Articles_IR35_News_Advice/view_article.asp?id_no=1894&photopage=0


> From my experience in getting contracts in the UK, I have never been asked for a professional certification like this. I would suggest it's not worth it.





> The BCS say CITP means something, but having just gone through the US visa process I had asked them for proof of status for the visa. At this point their tune changed and the response I had from them was "It's just a grade of membership" - which is rather different to the selling point of "a rigorously assessed, employer led qualification". Certainly it has no effect on the US visa process, indicating it's not counted as a qualification at all, at least to the US government.


http://stackoverflow.com/questions/...cs-chartered-it-professional-citp-worth-it-uk


----------



## teuchter (Jul 22, 2010)

Why is everyone getting so worked up about this guy?


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Why is everyone getting so worked up about this guy?


 We find him really, _really_ funny.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 22, 2010)




----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

magneze said:


> Chartered IT professional whose web page doesn't render properly in Firefox. Sign me up now.


 
If I need someone to build a really shitty looking website, I know exactly who to call


----------



## Kanda (Jul 22, 2010)

Fruitloop said:


> Wow, that would be ..... totally pointless.


 
The only time I've ever heard of it being of use was with emigration to Oz with no actual degree behind you.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 22, 2010)

I've just read some of the other thread.

Definitely needs to meet Peter Dow.

Can we get a thread with both of them on it?


----------



## TitanSound (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> He's not just a 'Chartered IT Professional '
> 
> He's also a self trumpeted "leading public figure in the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic solutions to issues affecting techno-cultural communities, both organic and virtual. A pioneer in educational technology and online community development."
> 
> And he's an incredibly modest and not even slightly self deluded "leading public figure in the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic solutions to issues affecting techno-cultural communities, both organic and virtual. A pioneer in educational technology and online community development"  too.


 
After reading the thread you should have just called him a cunt. Would have saved you a lot of typing as what you say above = he is a cunt.


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

TitanSound said:


> After reading the thread you should have just called him a cunt. Would have saved you a lot of typing as what you say above = he is a cunt.


 
if we say that he is a cunt enough time, will that show up in the descriptor when he searches for hiself?


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

In five years he'll be leading the country, or we'll all be dead by his hand.

Or possibly both.


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 22, 2010)

toggle said:


> so you cannot provide me with a citation of it actually being used. until you can, it is speculation


 
You can cite my blog if you wish for now:
http://jonathanbishop.com/index.php/403/sysop-prerogative/


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

Brilliant!  He actually thinks his own blog is a cite for his claims!

It gets better and better.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 22, 2010)

Anyone who thinks being a "chartered IT professional" is of more value than actual professional qualifications is a moron.


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> You can cite my blog if you wish for now:
> http://jonathanbishop.com/index.php/403/sysop-prerogative/


 
PMSL.

I'll cite this page as proof you are a cunt, because titansound said it.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 22, 2010)

What sort of "professional" lets their site look like this:







Quality. 

What is it that you're committed to? We NEED to know!!


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

"No, *I'm* a leading public figure!"


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

I think they call it Sectioning these days.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

kabbes said:


> "No, *I'm* a leading public figure!"


 
does it say that on your blog?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 22, 2010)

kabbes said:


> "No, *I'm* a leading public figure!"


 
Aaah, but is it in fields which you just this second _made up_?

I should point out that I'm not absolving fM from blame, btw.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

Anyway, back to the OP and, to be fair, it would be a small list of things that wouldn't be fractionMan's fault.  I hear that he was responsible for the Large Hadron Collider not working properly first time round, for example.

He is also at fault for the Chilean earthquake.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Anyway, back to the OP and, to be fair, it would be a small list of things that wouldn't be fractionMan's fault.  I hear that he was responsible for the Large Hadron Collider not working properly first time round, for example.
> 
> He is also at fault for the Chilean earthquake.



he is also responsible for the leak into my office from the flat above, that he has never been to.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

He made Wayne Rooney be a fat, useless waster.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

Now I'm a leading public figure


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

Wow, you really ARE a leading public figure, fogbat!  There is proof and everything!


----------



## AnnO'Neemus (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> He's not just a 'Chartered IT Professional '
> 
> He's also a self trumpeted "leading public figure in the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic solutions to issues affecting techno-cultural communities, both organic and virtual. A pioneer in educational technology and online community development."
> 
> And he's an incredibly modest and not even slightly self deluded "leading public figure in the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic solutions to issues affecting techno-cultural communities, both organic and virtual. A pioneer in educational technology and online community development"  too.


That deserves a double-entry in Private Eye - "socio-legal, info-scientific and economic *solutions*" *and* techno-cultural *communities*.  This is what Private Eye wet dreams are made of!


----------



## Santino (Jul 22, 2010)

kabbes said:


> He made Wayne Rooney be a fat, useless waster.


 
They've stopped showing that advert when failing to win a football match leads to him living in a shed, haven't they? They should re-shoot it so that failing to win a football match leads to him living in a huge house in Chester with a wife and family made of money.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Wow, you really ARE a leading public figure, fogbat!  There is proof and everything!



That's ok. I've made you a leading public figure, too.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

Jonathon, what's an "organic techno-cultural community" and what issues are currently affecting them and what solutions are you offering?


----------



## Santino (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> That's ok. I've made you a leading public figure, too.


 
I want to be one too.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> That's ok. I've made you a leading public figure, too.


 
I'm incredibly proud of both of you


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Now I'm a leading public figure


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

Santino said:


> I want to be one too.


 
I have made you a public figure, but typoed your username. Sorry about that.


----------



## Santino (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> I have made you a public figure, but typoed your username. Sorry about that.


 
I have mixed feelings.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2010)

The glare of public scrutiny's not all it's cracked up to be, eh. You have responsibilities now. You are a role model.


----------



## Santino (Jul 22, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The glare of public scrutiny's not all it's cracked up to be, eh. You have responsibilities now. You are a role model.


 
Shut up, Brian.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 22, 2010)

Santino said:


> I want to be one too.


 
So do I


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

can you make jonothan bishop a cunt, so i then have 2 cites for this.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

teuchter said:


> So do I


 
You couldn't handle the pressure


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

toggle said:


> can you make jonothan bishop a cunt, so i then have 2 cites for this.


 
Nah, that's a bit mean.

You could write it on a piece of paper, though, and cite that.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> You couldn't handle the pressure


 
Can I be a leading private figure?


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Nah, that's a bit mean.
> 
> You could write it on a piece of paper, though, and cite that.


 
i shall interview myslef and cite the interview as proof.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

Yes, you can.

But for privacy purposes, I feel it's best not to state that on a public webpage.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Now I'm a leading public figure


----------



## teuchter (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Yes, you can.
> 
> But for privacy purposes, I feel it's best not to state that on a public webpage.


 
You can blank out my name. "Xxxxxxxx is a leading private figure."


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> That's ok. I've made you a leading public figure, too.


That's brilliant, because now I can cite something that isn't even my own blog.  I've gone one step better than jonathan.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

Done!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2010)

teuchter said:


> You can blank out my name. "Xxxxxxxx is a leading private figure."


But then you'd be a known unknown. Surely a _leading_ private figure would remain an unknown unknown.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> That deserves a double-entry in Private Eye - "socio-legal, info-scientific and economic *solutions*" *and* techno-cultural *communities*.  This is what Private Eye wet dreams are made of!


 
complete tosh innit!


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> But then you'd be a known unknown. Surely a _leading_ private figure would remain an unknown unknown.


 *Insert mean quote about you being an unknown known*


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

still, the positive we have to take for this, is a google search now will be full of lol


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

plus, we have definitely learned a thing or two about 





> on-line community development


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2010)

kabbes said:


> *Insert mean quote about you being an unknown known*



I'm working my way up.


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Jonathon, what's an "organic techno-cultural community" and what issues are currently affecting them and what solutions are you offering?


 
A community is a network of actors whose commonality is their dependence on each others' existence. An organic community, is a community constrained by geography and other physical context. A techo-culture is any network of actors who share similar experiences in the use of technology.

Therefore, the biggest issue affecting these communities is how the use of technology is challenging the existence of traditional community structures, as set out in this book in the case of America:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bowling-Alo...ag=jonathanbishop-21&Query=Online-Communities

The solution to this problem is people working through co-operatives, something which I hope the Big Society will achieve.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> A community is a network of actors whose commonality is their dependence on each others' existence. An organic community, is a community constrained by geography and other physical context. A techo-culture is any network of actors who share similar experiences in the use of technology.
> 
> Therefore, the biggest issue affecting these communities is how the use of technology is challenging the existence of traditional community structures, as set out in this book in the case of America:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bowling-Alo...p/0684832836/ref=sr_1_2?tag=jonathanbishop-21


 If I might just summarise and paraphrase you:




			
				jonathanbishop said:
			
		

> .


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2010)

No it isn't.*

*And you may quote me on that.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Done!


 
As it turns out it's just as well I remain private. Thank you for your guidance on this matter.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm sure when invited to camp david that stater of the startlingly obvious didn't blame the atomisation of society on capitalism. American social observers often don't.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> A community is a network of actors whose commonality is their dependence on each others' existence. An organic community, is a community constrained by geography and other physical context. A techo-culture is any network of actors who share similar experiences in the use of technology.
> 
> Therefore, the biggest issue affecting these communities is how the use of technology is challenging the existence of traditional community structures, as set out in this book in the case of America:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bowling-Alo...p/0684832836/ref=sr_1_2?tag=jonathanbishop-21


That's a load of fookin' shite. Mind you, seeing as you've never run a busy, successful bulletin board it's no surprise to see you haven't got a fucking clue about them.

I've also no idea why you're referencing an unrelated book that is nearly a decade old.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> That's a load of fookin' shite. Mind you, seeing as you've never run a busy, successful bulletin board it's no surprise to see you haven't got a fucking clue about them.
> 
> I've also no idea why you're referencing an unrelated book that is nearly a decade old.


 
we are all bowling alone now


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> I've also no idea why you're referencing an unrelated book that is nearly a decade old.



I am similarly confused why I am trying to inform a community that is over a decade old and not open to new ideas or people.

As an expert on the subject I think you should accept that I've read more books on the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic aspects of communities, both organic and virtual.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

I'm not over a decade old.  I'm six years old at most.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> That's a load of fookin' shite.



A startlingly erudite, comprehensive and correct analysis.


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> That's a load of fookin' shite. Mind you, seeing as you've never run a busy, successful bulletin board it's no surprise to see you haven't got a fucking clue about them.
> 
> I've also no idea why you're referencing an unrelated book that is nearly a decade old.


 
has he done it again? 

i wonder whether he will ever work out that people are actually checking to see if his references are relevent to his claims.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 22, 2010)

That Amazon link had his name in it, does that mean billy bullshitter gets money for people clicking on the link?


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

toggle said:


> i wonder whether he will ever work out that people are actually checking to see if his references are relevent to his claims.


To be fair, I'm not doing this.  I'm just here to laugh at him.  Checking up on references sounds like WAY too much hard work.


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I am similarly confused why I am trying to inform a community that is over a decade old and not open to new ideas or people.
> 
> As an expert on the subject I think you should accept that I've read more books on the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic aspects of communities, both organic and virtual.


 
this community is welcome to new ideas and people, we just don't take self important cabbages very seriously.

we do welcome you as the entertainment though. there are deckchairs being dragged out of sheds and popcorn being made all over the world every time you comment


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

kabbes said:


> To be fair, I'm not doing this.  I'm just here to laugh at him.  Checking up on references sounds like WAY too much hard work.


 
it would be, but my alternative is reading books on postmodernism,  public heritage and identity politics.


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> That Amazon link had his name in it, does that mean billy bullshitter gets money for people clicking on the link?


 
iirc, only if they buy somehting


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

actually, i can go read about dogsechx in castle moats. wonder if i can find a way to reference that in the essay i shouldn't have to do


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> As an expert on the subject I think you should accept that I've read more books on the socio-legal, info-scientific and economic aspects of communities, both organic and virtual.


Could you furnish me with some examples of these busy, thriving bulletin boards you've set up please?

You see, any idiot can read a load of books and blather cluelessly away on the internet about what it takes to make a successful community, but only a few get off their arse and actually _do it._

So what have you got, 'Big Man'? Let's see the colour of your URLs.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Could you furnish me with some examples of these busy, thriving bulletin boards you've set up please?
> 
> You see, any idiot can read a load of books and blather cluelessly away on the internet about what it takes to make a successful community, but only a few get off their arse and actually _do it._
> 
> So what have you got, 'Big Man'? Let's see the colour of your URLs.


 Ed, you were nothing -- _nothing_ until you got me.  Look what you've achieved since March 2007.  I rest my case.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 22, 2010)

I think Mr Bishop deserves a nickname. Can I suggest Harold?


----------



## magneze (Jul 22, 2010)

There was another thread mentioned. Anyone got a linky to it? thx


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

magneze said:


> There was another thread mentioned. Anyone got a linky to it? thx


Here's is the legendary original thread:  http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/218366-Welsh-Labour-Closing-Down-Bulletin-Boards

"At the age of 28 Jonathan was elected to Pontypridd Town Council, and noted a similar path to former US President Bill Clinton, who was also elected unopposed to public office shortly after graduating from law school."


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2010)

Here it is.

Enjoy


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 22, 2010)

heh. Epic fail.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

That website is so full of J-Bish trying to compensate for his own insecurities. It's hilarious


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Here's is the legendary original thread:  http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/218366-Welsh-Labour-Closing-Down-Bulletin-Boards
> 
> "At the age of 28 Jonathan was elected to Pontypridd Town Council, and noted a similar path to former US President Bill Clinton, who was also elected unopposed to public office shortly after graduating from law school."


 
I *heart* how he has compared himself to Clinton, it's like when Richard Madeley interviewed him, and compared the trauma over his shoplifting trial to Clinton's impeachment trauma


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> That website is so full of J-Bish trying to compensate for his own insecurities. It's hilarious


 
he's a comic genius, Bob Monkhouse died, we need mourn no more


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Could you furnish me with some examples of these busy, thriving bulletin boards you've set up please?
> 
> You see, any idiot can read a load of books and blather cluelessly away on the internet about what it takes to make a successful community, but only a few get off their arse and actually _do it._
> 
> So what have you got, 'Big Man'? Let's see the colour of your URLs.


 
You don't have to be a rock to study geology. However, I ran two sucessful community websites between 1998 and 2003. Successful in that they helped people find the information they wanted. Due to lack of financial backing, both were taken down as they were both niche sites. One was targetted at people with connections with Llantrisant, and one for people interested in Robin Hood.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathan only responds to the editor, funny that , not bob monkhouse funny though


----------



## meurig (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> One was targetted at people with connections with Llantrisant, and one for people interested in Robin Hood.



Thank you - you just made me laugh out loud.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 22, 2010)

Sorry, can only pop in briefly but that made me spit out my coffee


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> You don't have to be a rock to study geology. However, I ran two sucessful community websites between 1998 and 2003. Successful in that they helped people find the information they wanted. Due to lack of financial backing, both were taken down as they were both niche sites. One was targetted at people with connections with Llantrisant, and one for people interested in Robin Hood.


 
ran any since 2003? the game has changed since then young skywalker


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 22, 2010)

So johnathon, how's re-writing the entire internet working out for you?  Made any progress?


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 22, 2010)

Well, in the sense that between them they appealed to 8 entire people, those sites were a huge success!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 22, 2010)

marty21 said:


> I *heart* how he has compared himself to Clinton, it's like when Richard Madeley interviewed him, and compared the trauma over his shoplifting trial to Clinton's impeachment trauma


 
"Me and Mandela, we've led similar lives"


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> "Me and Mandela, we've led similar lives"


 
I was once the same age as Hitler


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> You don't have to be a rock to study geology. However, I ran two sucessful community websites between 1998 and 2003. Successful in that they helped people find the information they wanted. Due to lack of financial backing, both were taken down as they were both niche sites. One was targetted at people with connections with Llantrisant, and one for people interested in Robin Hood.


Some may say that planning a community websites so badly that it was unable to sustain itself speaks volumes of your own inadequacies and shortcomings in this area. I'd tend to agree. 

 Your websites weren't successes. They were failures and you let the users down.

Part of the process of building successful on-line communities involves thorough and extensive planning and research, and by cobbling together a site that flopped because of your poor financial planning, you've actually left users _worse off._

What were the names of these sites please? I'm sure they would have been indexed by Google


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Some may say that planning a website so badly that it was unable to sustain itself speaks volumes of your own inadequacies and shortcomings in this area. I'd tend to agree.
> 
> Part of the process of building successful on-line communities involves thorough and extensive planning and research, and by cobbling together a site that flopped because of your poor planning, you've actually left users _worse off._


 
exactly, I posted on a Robin Hood message board for YEARS, then it disappeared, where do I go now?


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

The thread just keeps on giving:



> Robin Hood was autistic, a member of the World Wide Robin Hood Society is to claim at an international conference on England’s most renowned legendary outlaw.
> 
> Jonathan Bishop, an e-learning expert with a background in analysing media, who has built educational websites about the legend, argues that analysis of the depictions of Robin Hood in ballads, books and films reveals that the medieval outlaw exhibits many autistic qualities.
> 
> ...


I thought this was an April Fools at first.

Oh, and how many people were interviewed, JB?


http://www.newswiretoday.com/news/20189/


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> The thread just keeps on giving:
> 
> I thought this was an April Fools at first.
> 
> ...


 
Ahahahaha. Citing the fucking Ladybird books. Ace.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

> "Picking up the Ladybird series of Robin Hood books, such as The Ambush and The Silver Arrow as well as many other series of Robin Hood books, Robin Hood is usually seen wearing the same clothes, which is characteristic of leadership and also of people with Asperger Syndrome, and also the fact that Robin Hood has only one close friend, which was Little John, someone who he met in a confrontational manner, is also typical of autistic people".



I base all my historical research on Ladybird books.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

Wait. I must be misreading this. Surely to Jebus?

Authoritative statements about a fictional character, based on the clothes he is pictured wearing in Ladybird books? 

e2a Beaten to it twice, damnit. That's still pretty special, though.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

"_Was Mr Tickle diabetic? New research suggests that yes, he was..._"


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

Hang on.  Putting 2, 2, 5, 1 and 7 together makes me think that Jonathan has Asperger's.  I suddenly feel a lot less comfortable with mocking his social inadequacy.  I think I'll leave it there.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 22, 2010)

give us the url's godnamit! we can look em up in awe on the waybackwhen machine!


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

fogbat said:


> "_Was Mr Tickle diabetic? New research suggests that yes, he was..._"


 
I believe Mr Grumpy had social interaction issues - based on my historical research


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 22, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Hang on.  Putting 2, 2, 5, 1 and 7 together makes me think that Jonathan has Asperger's.  I suddenly feel a lot less comfortable with mocking his social inadequacy.  I think I'll leave it there.


 
Given that I have no medical training beyond basic first aid I am going to assume he is just insane.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2010)

It is possible to have Asperger's and also be an idiot. 

As I posted on his other thread, I think what he is doing has no value and that he ought to find something else to do. That advice stands whatever his position on the autism spectrum. He needs to be told.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Hang on.  Putting 2, 2, 5, 1 and 7 together makes me think that Jonathan has Asperger's.  I suddenly feel a lot less comfortable with mocking his social inadequacy.  I think I'll leave it there.


 
Given that he elected to return here to specifically attack another poster and continue to brag about his achievements, my sympathy is pretty low, whatever the circumstances.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Given that he elected to return here to specifically attack another poster and continue to brag about his achievements, my sympathy is pretty low, whatever the circumstances.


It might possibly be less about sympathy and more about what you hope to achieve.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2010)

Achieve? 

I think fogbat's website is achievement enough for one thread.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Achieve?
> 
> I think fogbat's website is achievement enough for one thread.


 
plus the use of ladybird books for historical research


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> You don't have to be a rock to study geology. However, I ran two sucessful community websites between 1998 and 2003. Successful in that they helped people find the information they wanted. Due to lack of financial backing, both were taken down as they were both niche sites. One was targetted at people with connections with Llantrisant, and one for people interested in Robin Hood.


 
where do you think this site's financial backing comes from? 

hint, your site isn't a success if you can't keep it running


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

marty21 said:


> I base all my historical research on Ladybird books.


 
i shall have to remember that ladybird books are an acceptable cite in historical research.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 22, 2010)

toggle said:


> where do you think this site's financial backing comes from?



MI5. They use it to keep track of dissidents. They employ undercover trolls to monitor activity and steer debate onto controversial areas. I'm not totally sure who the agents are, but I have my suspicions of Jazzz...


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 22, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> So johnathon, how's re-writing the entire internet working out for you?  Made any progress?


 
Yes, I've written a few papers for law journals, and computing experts I've spoken to think identity management will be part of 'Internet 2.0'.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 22, 2010)

no shit sherwood!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> identity management



Ladies and gentlemen, the Labour Party in South Wales...


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Yes, I've written a few papers for law journals, and computing experts I've spoken to think identity management will be part of 'Internet 2.0'.


For non-profit, private bulletin boards? Which computing experts are saying that, then?


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Yes, I've written a few papers for law journals, and computing experts I've spoken to think identity management will be part of 'Internet 2.0'.


 
cites?


----------



## toggle (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> For non-profit, private bulletin boards? Which computing experts are saying that, then?


 
jonothan bishop probably


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

Self proclaimed internets experts. FTW


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 22, 2010)

I expect it'll be around the same time they launch duke nukem forever.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 22, 2010)

See, you could if you were bored and skilled map a duke nukem game using the quake engine for great justice.

Someone do this, and make it OSX compatible.


----------



## Fruitloop (Jul 22, 2010)

So, Shibboleth had an update recently didn't it? Tbh without more info it's hard to tell if it was a shibboleth problem or something at the vendor's end.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 22, 2010)

it's almost certainly at the university end, but the problem could be anywhere in the identity stack.  And it's a big stack.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

Still your fault though


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 22, 2010)

Yeah, sorry about that.  My psychic diagnostic tools are on the blink.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 22, 2010)

Bet you wish you had gone for the charter stuff now


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 22, 2010)

Fruitloop said:


> So, Shibboleth had an update recently didn't it? Tbh without more info it's hard to tell if it was a shibboleth problem or something at the vendor's end.


It's hard to say.


----------



## magneze (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Here's is the legendary original thread:  http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/218366-Welsh-Labour-Closing-Down-Bulletin-Boards
> 
> "At the age of 28 Jonathan was elected to Pontypridd Town Council, and noted a similar path to former US President Bill Clinton, who was also elected unopposed to public office shortly after graduating from law school."


 


littlebabyjesus said:


> Here it is.
> 
> Enjoy


Internet comedy gold.


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> Some may say that planning a community websites so badly that it was unable to sustain itself speaks volumes of your own inadequacies and shortcomings in this area. I'd tend to agree.
> 
> Your websites weren't successes. They were failures and you let the users down.
> 
> ...


 
They were: A Guide to Robin Hood and Northern England - http://www.robin-hood.uk.com - and Llantrisant Online - http://www.llantrisant.info. The latter one is still in the Internet archives, where you should be able to see how I followed Derek Powazek's guidelines for closing an online community.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> They were: A Guide to Robin Hood and Northern England - http://www.robin-hood.uk.com - and Llantrisant Online - http://www.llantrisant.info. The latter one is still in the Internet archives, where you should be able to see how I followed Derek Powazek's guidelines for closing an online community.


Llantrisant Online's forum appears to have attracted no more than three posters (including yourself) before turning into another of your self promoting personal websites. 

Example post:


> Am I the only one here?
> Am I the only one posting here ... where is everyone ?



And that's your idea of a successful community is, it?  

As for http://www.robin-hood.uk.com, that seems to have underperformed so hopelessly that it may as well have never existed as far as Google is concerned.

You're really showing us how it's done here Mr Internet Expert.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 22, 2010)

> Jonathan is currently updating his website



how long does it take JB? surely you are in recess from council?


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> You're really showing us how it's done here Mr Internet Expert.



No, I describe how it is done here:
http://www.crocels.com


----------



## fogbat (Jul 22, 2010)

There's a whole Centre? 

I'm picturing something like the CTU offices in 24.


----------



## meurig (Jul 23, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> No, I describe how it is done here:
> http://www.crocels.com


 
*Increasing participation in online communities*

How did that work out for your communities then?


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 23, 2010)

meurig said:


> *Increasing participation in online communities*
> 
> How did that work out for your communities then?


 
You can read about them in this conference proceedings:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Proceedings...tion-Centred-Design-of-E-Learning-Communities


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jul 23, 2010)

Oh dear..........


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> No, I describe how it is done here:
> http://www.crocels.com


Why should anyone take your comments on, "increasing participation in online communities" seriously when your own, badly planned and short-lived attempt only attracted three users (including yourself) before collapsing in a heap of total fail?


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> You can read about them in this conference proceedings:
> http://www.amazon.co.uk/Proceedings...tion-Centred-Design-of-E-Learning-Communities


Stop trying to make money out of this community by spamming your associate links to irrelevant books. Last warning.


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 23, 2010)

editor said:


> Why should anyone take your comments on, "increasing participation in online communities" seriously


 
All these people do, including Jenny Preece:
http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?cites=10037623329700496756&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=2000&hl=en


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> All these people do, including Jenny Preece:
> http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?cites=10037623329700496756&as_sdt=2005&sciodt=2000&hl=en


So in your opinion, managing to attract three people to a board which promptly collapsed because the idiot in charge was too stupid to plan ahead and consider how it would be funded is your idea of a successful "online community", is it? 

And you think that your experience - along with your other site that was such a flop Google didn't even bother to index it - makes you qualified to lecture others about how a community should be run, yes?

I've no idea who Jenny Preece is, btw.


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 23, 2010)

editor said:


> I've no idea who Jenny Preece is, btw.


 
She's an online community expert.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 23, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> She's an online community expert.


 
She can't be that much of an expert if those actually managing one of the largest online communities haven't heard of her, can she?

Btw, re the abject failure of your online communities - did you ever consider the possibility that it may have been the subject matter?


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> She's an online community expert.


But with your laughable attempt at an online community only attracting three posters (including yourself) before collapsing due to poor planning, you, clearly, are not an 'online community expert.'


----------



## bmd (Jul 23, 2010)

Just wanted to post on the thread. Carry on JB.


----------



## stupid dogbot (Jul 23, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> She's an online community expert.


 
Is that a (-nother made up) job title?


----------



## toggle (Jul 23, 2010)

got to love the name dropping. there's probably a dozen numpties like bishop telling people how important they all are because they are quoting each other in papers in one pathetic little circle jerk.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 23, 2010)

toggle said:


> got to love the name dropping. there's probably a dozen numpties like bishop telling people how important they all are because they are quoting each other in papers in one pathetic little circle jerk.


 
You've pretty much summed up academia there.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 23, 2010)

fogbat, please append "Online Community Expert" to my achievements on your website.

Thank you.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 23, 2010)

On a vaguely related note, when trying to figure out the answer to "is this person a member of the university and what are their access rights?” Cardiff university have just finished identifying 88 distinct types* of users of their systems.  

Isn't identity management fun!

* not including sub-types


----------



## kabbes (Jul 23, 2010)

Is one of the 88 types the "two fat ladies" type?


----------



## fogbat (Jul 23, 2010)

kabbes said:


> fogbat, please append "Online Community Expert" to my achievements on your website.
> 
> Thank you.


 
Done.

Though any further changes are going to cost you. Cost you dearly.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 23, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Is one of the 88 types the "two fat ladies" type?


 
https://gabriel.lse.ac.uk/twiki/bin/view/Projects/IdMToolkit/UserCaseCardiffJul10
specifically: https://gabriel.lse.ac.uk/twiki/bin...iffJul10?filename=/Appendix_4_-_MCE_Table.pdf

fascinating stuff.

Lots of people make their living pumping out this type of thing.  For years and years and years.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 23, 2010)

Fogbat, can I be a ''stakeholder representative in the oline community stakeholder community'', please?

Actually no,  can I be ''A Big Man''? 


cheers.


----------



## fogbat (Jul 23, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> On a vaguely related note, when trying to figure out the answer to "is this person a member of the university and what are their access rights?” Cardiff university have just finished identifying 88 distinct types* of users of their systems.
> 
> Isn't identity management fun!
> 
> * not including sub-types


 
Obviously, you have Lurker, Troll, Big Man, Flirt, Snert, E-venger, MHBFY Jenny, Chat Room Bob, Ripper, Wizard and Iconoclast. I can't think what the other 77 types might be.


----------



## toggle (Jul 23, 2010)

got to love the edit history on that:




> I urge Jonathan Bishop to stop editing himself back into articles upon which he has no peer reviewed authority


----------



## fogbat (Jul 23, 2010)

Oh dear.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 23, 2010)

where's that from toggle?


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 23, 2010)

fogbat said:


> Oh dear.


 
Are you making me a big man, yet? 





quimcunx said:


> Fogbat, can I be a ''stakeholder representative in the oline community stakeholder community'', please?
> 
> Actually no,  can I be ''A Big Man''?
> 
> ...


----------



## fogbat (Jul 23, 2010)

quimcunx said:


> Are you making me a big man, yet?


 
I've got all the assorted body parts sewn together into one complete body, but I'm still in search of a living brain to put inside it. Will keep you updated.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 23, 2010)

toggle said:


> got to love the edit history on that:


 
where is that from? lol at JB


----------



## toggle (Jul 23, 2010)

quimcunx said:


> where's that from toggle?


 
the wiki link bottom of the last page


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 23, 2010)

toggle said:


> the wiki link bottom of the last page


 
Also these gems:



> Bishop's theory has not appeared in a peer-reviewed publication and adds little to Campbell, Fletcher and Greenhill's (highly regarded) theory





> Bishop's own website, and added by the man himself. Barely a credible source




Lol. You have to admire Mr Bishop's ability for farcical self-promotion I suppose.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 23, 2010)

> I am an author in the field of online communities and e-learning systems. Naturally, my work which is peer reviewed may be of relevance to users researching the field on Wikipedia.
> 
> I actively monitor pages that mention me, though don't add citations to myself as much as I would like to. This article contained reference to my work. It was however deleted by an anonymous IP, which I believe is that of someone associated with a former girlfriend of mine acting in bad faith



from the wiki discussion bit - JB sounds a bit paranoid tbh 

from the same discussion



> As we all know Mr Bishop has a history of using Wikipedia for self-promotion. I have studied the paper being discussed here in detail, and it seems to add little to Campbell, Fletcher and Greenhill's far more concise and innovative contribution to Character theory. Accordingly, I think it has go. The Colonel. (ColonelBuendia99 (talk) 19:20, 24 January 2010 (UTC))



We *heart* ColonelBuendia99


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 23, 2010)

You must be doing something _really_ wrong if cultural theorists think you're full of shit.


----------



## toggle (Jul 23, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> Also these gems:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
yep.

looks like citing his own websites as proof of hsi work is his usual form.


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 23, 2010)

Proper Tidy said:


> Btw, re the abject failure of your online communities - did you ever consider the possibility that it may have been the subject matter?



The websites were very niche, and I acknowledge that subject matter is a crucial piece in the jigsaw of the successful running of an online community, as I said at the ITA'09 conference. The Llantrisant Online website had over 200 members by the time it closed in 2003, after neither the Llantrisant Town Trust or I could any longer afford the high bandwidth costs. They still owe me money. The Trust actually described it as a 'mammoth' of a site because of its immense functionality, but one which they did not have the time to nurture.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 23, 2010)

This has lost the _je ne sais quoi_ that created the elusive, mecurial comedy genius that it once contained.  I think it's time to burn it.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> The websites were very niche, and I acknowledge that subject matter is a crucial piece in the jigsaw of the successful running of an online community, as I said at the ITA'09 conference. The Llantrisant Online website had over 200 members by the time it closed in 2003, after neither the Llantrisant Town Trust or I could any longer afford the high bandwidth costs.


You're bullshitting. 

Those boards had only three contributors and there was barely any content on the site, so there is_ no way on earth_ that such a pitifully small offering would attract "high bandwidth costs" - unless you *really *fucked up the design, of course.

Oh, and what you said at the ITA'09 conference - whatever that is - is completely irrelevant to the disastrous flop that was your failed forums.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 23, 2010)

lol @ the fact you presented on increasing the membership of online communities.

It's a subject you're quite obviously clueless about


----------



## marty21 (Jul 23, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> lol @ the fact you presented on increasing the membership of online communities.
> 
> It's a subject you're quite obviously clueless about


 
as I said before JB is a comic genius, up there with monkhouse I reckon


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> lol @ the fact you presented on increasing the membership of online communities.
> 
> It's a subject you're quite obviously clueless about


His site hit the giddy heights of _three_ members (including himself) and then went straight to zero, with his other site failing to even get indexed by Google.

He surely must be a Chartered IT Professional in Failology.


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 23, 2010)

editor said:


> You're bullshitting.
> 
> Those boards had only three contributors and there was barely any content on the site, so there is_ no way on earth_ that such a pitifully small offering would attract "high bandwidth costs" - unless you *really *fucked up the design, of course.





editor said:


> His site hit the giddy heights of _three_ members (including himself) and then went straight to zero, with his other site failing to even get indexed by Google.



The chatroom was more popular, as were the e-postcards with artwork supplied by local artists - both bandwith intensive. A novelty of the site, and why many of the 200 people signed up was finding out their family coat of arms provided by a historian and whether they were related to any Freemen of Llantrisant, which was based on a huge database. A lot of work went in to putting this data online, but the Trust weren't willing to keep it up-to-date and I didn't have the time either.

The site had all that was needed to be a successful niche site, but did not have the financial and human resources to manage it.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> The chatroom was more popular, as were the e-postcards with artwork supplied by local artists - both bandwith intensive. A novelty of the site, and why many of the 200 people signed up was finding out their family coat of arms provided by a historian and whether they were related to any Freemen of Llantrisant, which was based on a huge database. A lot of work went in to putting this data online, but the Trust weren't willing to keep it up-to-date and I didn't have the time either.
> 
> The site had all that was needed to be a successful niche site, but did not have the financial and human resources to manage it.


You're bullshitting again.

Seeing as your discussion boards only attracted six threads in two years: a 'welcome' one by you, another one by you asking if the 'pound was causing job losses' (replies = 0) and then four others all complaining that no one else was using it, your bandwidth costs would have been negligible.

But let's get some figures: how many e-postcards do you claim that you were sending out every day and how many people were in your chatroom per hour on average throughout the day?

Two hundred people may or may not have signed up to the site, but it's clear that once they saw how shite it was, they never bothered contributing. Why can't you be honest about the reason why the site failed?


----------



## agricola (Jul 23, 2010)

editor said:


> Two hundred people may or may not have signed up to the site, but it's clear that once they saw how shite it was, they never bothered contributing. Why can't you be honest about the reason why the site failed?


 
Perhaps he has learned one of the essential truths of the internet, that making a complete twat of oneself will result in far more attention than any number of e-postcards or socio-techno-info-blah-newmedia developments?


----------



## fogbat (Jul 23, 2010)

This is becoming more and more like kicking a shamelessly self-promoting, terminally un-self-aware puppy, with political ambitions, to death.

I mean, still entertaining, obviously. 

But it makes me cringe 

He's so entirely unequippped to deal with criticism.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jul 23, 2010)

Honestly, is he still fucking here? He's some sort of 90s throwback.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 23, 2010)

fogbat said:


> This is becoming more and more like kicking a shamelessly self-promoting, terminally un-self-aware puppy, with political ambitions, to death.
> 
> I mean, still entertaining, obviously.
> 
> ...



true, still attracting 200 people to a discussion board, is rubbish though, isn't it. even if it does have fancy post cards - which I note, WE HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN HERE!


----------



## toggle (Jul 23, 2010)

fogbat said:


> This is becoming more and more like kicking a shamelessly self-promoting, terminally un-self-aware puppy, with political ambitions, to death.
> 
> I mean, still entertaining, obviously.
> 
> ...


 
he is also entirely unequipped to explain his views in any meaningful way.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jul 23, 2010)

fogbat said:


> This is becoming more and more like kicking a shamelessly self-promoting, terminally un-self-aware puppy, with political ambitions, to death.
> 
> I mean, still entertaining, obviously.
> 
> ...





 I agree. 

All those lols are a bit sullied now. 

It was the same with Peter Dow. 

I want TobyJug back.


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 25, 2010)

editor said:


> Two hundred people may or may not have signed up to the site, but it's clear that once they saw how shite it was, they never bothered contributing. Why can't you be honest about the reason why the site failed?



Lets see how well I do this time, what do you think of my ethos?:
http://www.llantrisant.info/index.php/llantrisant-community/ethos

It's based on a principle I call, 'The Figallo effect', which is where sysop prerogative has been mainly delegated the site's users who use their real identities. It contrasts with the 'Jimbo effect', where everyone is anonymous and sysop prerogative is wielded by an inconsistent and uneven-handed set of administrators.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 25, 2010)

> You won’t have to put up with nasty comments against you or someone else on Llantrisant Online – you can remove them.



Who will moderate the removal of comments?  




toggle said:


> removed


 


jonathanbishop said:


> removed


 


kabbes said:


> removed


 


editor said:


> removed


 


fractionMan said:


> removed


 


marty21 said:


> removed


 


editor said:


> removed.


 


jonathanbishop said:


> removed.



You're all howwible!  I've removed your comments.  So there!


----------



## tar1984 (Jul 25, 2010)

Imagine if we all had mod powers had mod powers, it would be chaos.  It would be hilarious for about 5 mins tbf.  I'd be banning people left and right.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 25, 2010)

The whole board would be blank.


----------



## tar1984 (Jul 25, 2010)

That'll teach people to disagree with me


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 25, 2010)

tar1984 said:


> That'll teach people to disagree with me


 
It's okay though because we'd all have to use our real names so anyone with a grudge about you deleting their comments could just google you and make an anonymous call to your work and get you sacked.


----------



## editor (Jul 25, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> It's based on a principle I call, 'The Figallo effect', which is where sysop prerogative has been mainly delegated the site's users who use their real identities. It contrasts with the 'Jimbo effect', where everyone is anonymous and sysop prerogative is wielded by an inconsistent and uneven-handed set of administrators.


I haven't a clue what any of that irrelevant gibberish means and I imagine barely a soul gives much of a fuck either, but I see that the website's entire intro is copied word for word from wikipedia.

Oh, and who elected you to be the "independent arbitrator" of your own site?


----------



## tar1984 (Jul 25, 2010)

quimcunx said:


> It's okay though because we'd all have to use our real names so anyone with a grudge about you deleting their comments could just google you and make an anonymous call to your work and get you sacked.


 
I could do the same to them in return which should make them think twice  it would be kind of like a nuclear stand-off.


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 25, 2010)

tar1984 said:


> I could do the same to them in return which should make them think twice  it would be kind of like a nuclear stand-off.


 
They might not be googleable or have a job.  Thought about that, buster?


----------



## strung out (Jul 25, 2010)

i just went on his website. apparently "If it were not for lecturers such as ... and ... pointing Jonathan in the right direction he may have never honed his programming skills to the extent that he could constantly evolve with the changing times to produce new Internet applications and go on to be recognised as one of the 50,000 most accomplished people in the World."


----------



## quimcunx (Jul 25, 2010)

alive _and_ dead? 

I want a link to the bit where he is recognised as such.    Preferably by an authority other than himself.


Maybe there was a Channel 4 hitlist programme of the most accomplished 50,000 people in the world.   And I missed it.


----------



## strung out (Jul 25, 2010)

"At the age of 28 Jonathan was elected to Pontypridd Town Council, and noted a similar path to former US President Bill Clinton, who was also elected unopposed to public office shortly after graduating from law school."

that is classic


----------



## tar1984 (Jul 25, 2010)

quimcunx said:


> They might not be googleable or have a job.  Thought about that, buster?



People with a high web profile would be at a disadvantage (including the OP, funnily enough).  I'd be fine, I don't have a job anyway.



strung_out said:


> i just went on his website. apparently "If it were not for lecturers such as ... and ... pointing Jonathan in the right direction he may have never honed his programming skills to the extent that he could constantly evolve with the changing times to produce new Internet applications and go on to be recognised as one of the 50,000 most accomplished people in the World."



Not just 50,000 most accomplished programmers (which would be some claim anyway), but most accomplished _people_


----------



## editor (Jul 25, 2010)

I'm sure he'll be along soon with a hugely credible source for that "50,000 most accomplished people in the World" claim.


----------



## tar1984 (Jul 25, 2010)

It would put you in the top 0.0007465746363196677% of the worlds population.


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 25, 2010)

editor said:


> I'm sure he'll be along soon with a hugely credible source for that "50,000 most accomplished people in the World" claim.


 
You claim some of you have Athens accounts. Look me up in the biography section of http://www.lexisnexis.com/uk/nexis/

With regard to the Figallo effect aspect of my site and the abuse concern comments above; I'm going to write some code where a post can only be moderated if a certain number of people have flagged it as abusive. I might check whether there is an open source system already available first though.


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 25, 2010)

tar1984 said:


> It would put you in the top 0.0007465746363196677% of the worlds population.


 
That's 38,000, which is even better than 50,000 ;-)


----------



## marty21 (Jul 25, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> You claim some of you have Athens accounts. Look me up in the biography section of http://www.lexisnexis.com/uk/nexis/
> 
> With regard to the Figallo effect aspect of my site and the abuse concern comments above; I'm going to write some code where a post can only be moderated if a certain number of people have flagged it as abusive. I might check whether there is an open source system already available first though.



crap link, you have to register


----------



## editor (Jul 25, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> You claim some of you have Athens accounts. Look me up in the biography section of http://www.lexisnexis.com/uk/nexis/


Exactly who said that you were one of the "50,000 most accomplished people in the World"? Did you write it yourself? What does it say? 


jonathanbishop said:


> With regard to the Figallo effect aspect of my site and the abuse concern comments above; I'm going to write some code where a post can only be moderated if a certain number of people have flagged it as abusive. I might check whether there is an open source system already available first though.


Seeing as you had to make up a load of laughable bullshit about 'high bandwidth costs' to try and explain away your previous complete failure of a bulletin board, perhaps you'd be better off trying to attract posters first?


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## tar1984 (Jul 25, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> That's 38,000, which is even better than 50,000 ;-)


 
I was using the 2008 world bank figures for world population (yes really, I was that bored).


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 26, 2010)

editor said:


> Exactly who said that you were one of the "50,000 most accomplished people in the World"? Did you write it yourself? What does it say?
> Seeing as you had to make up a load of laughable bullshit about 'high bandwidth costs' to try and explain away your previous complete failure of a bulletin board, perhaps you'd be better off trying to attract posters first?


 
I was contacted by Marquis Who's Who, after being recommended by an existing listee, gave them my biography details, and they've included me in their 2009-2010 editions, which is limited to 50,000 - take a look at their website. The biography is on Nexis if you have access to it.

Regarding Llantrisant Online; In the original site the trust wanted it to be self-sustaining so they didn't have to devote much time to it. As I expect you know, running online communities, especially on a not-for-profit voluntary basis is difficult. So my new aim is to use this new site as a test-bed for my ideas on conflict management that I have developed as part of my MScEcon in Information Systems in the last year. I think I'll try to get community groups involved - more are online now than when I first made the site.


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## editor (Jul 26, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I was contacted by Marquis Who's Who, after being recommended by an existing listee, gave them my biography details, and they've included me in their 2009-2010 editions, which is limited to 50,000 - take a look at their website. The biography is on Nexis if you have access to it.


I can find no mention of you on their website but these things are totally meaningless anyway - as your claimed inclusion proves beyond doubt. 


> Tucker Carlson, in an article entitled "The Hall of Lame" that appeared in Forbes Magazine in 1999, wrote that the selection process is neither rigorous nor meaningful, and self nominators and thousands of people not particularly notable are included, such as bowling coaches and landscape architects. Carlson also writes that Marquis makes money selling addresses to direct mail marketers.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquis_Who's_Who


Seeing as we both know that you're bullshitting about your original claim that the site closed down due to hefty bandwidth charges, why don't you just admit  it and save yourself any further humiliation?


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## quimcunx (Jul 26, 2010)

Not the British Who's Who then?  

Tucker Carlson says: 

http://www.forbes.com/forbes-life-magazine/1999/0308/063.html



> To make the process of self-promotion easier, Reed Elsevier, the publication's parent company and the owner of Lexis-Nexis, now has a site on the Internet where would-be biographees can complete a "biographical data form."


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## teuchter (Jul 26, 2010)

I have reason to believe that I will feature in a future edition.


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## fogbat (Jul 26, 2010)

I have always considered you to be in the top 50,000 of most accomplished people in the world.

I'm glad to learn you're finally getting a bit of recognition.


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## magneze (Jul 26, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I was contacted by Marquis Who's Who, after being recommended by an existing listee, gave them my biography details, and they've included me in their 2009-2010 editions, which is limited to 50,000 - take a look at their website. The biography is on Nexis if you have access to it.


If the number of people is "limited to 50,000", that hardly makes them the 50,000 most accomplished people in the world, does it?


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## marty21 (Jul 26, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I was contacted by Marquis Who's Who, after being recommended by an existing listee, gave them my biography details, and they've included me in their 2009-2010 editions, which is limited to 50,000 - take a look at their website. The biography is on Nexis if you have access to it.
> 
> Regarding Llantrisant Online; In the original site the trust wanted it to be self-sustaining so they didn't have to devote much time to it. As I expect you know, running online communities, especially on a not-for-profit voluntary basis is difficult. So my new aim is to use this new site as a test-bed for my ideas on conflict management that I have developed as part of my MScEcon in Information Systems in the last year. I think I'll try to get community groups involved - more are online now than when I first made the site.


 
were you recommended by a mate?


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## phildwyer (Jul 26, 2010)

Jonathan, is it true that Robin Hood was in reality the Earl of Huntington?


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## quimcunx (Jul 26, 2010)

teuchter said:


> I have reason to believe that I will feature in a future edition.


 
Are you currently the 50,001st most accomplished person in the world?   Are you hatching an evil plot to off Jonathan?


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 26, 2010)

phildwyer said:


> Jonathan, is it true that Robin Hood was in reality the Earl of Huntington?


 
I think you'll find he's referred to as the 'Pretended Earl of Huntington'. I think Robin Hood can be whatever people want him to be, as the legend is constantly evolving. I don't think people should need to ask whether Robin Hood ever existed, as he exists today; in the hearts and minds of those who know his legends.


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## phildwyer (Jul 26, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I think you'll find he's referred to as the 'Pretended Earl of Huntington'. I think Robin Hood can be whatever people want him to be, as the legend is constantly evolving. I don't think people should need to ask whether Robin Hood ever existed, as he exists today; in the hearts and minds of those who know his legends.


 
Good answer.  I can't make up my mind about you.  You are an enigma.


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## Proper Tidy (Jul 26, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I don't think people should need to ask whether Robin Hood ever existed, as he exists today; in the hearts and minds of those who know his legends.


 
Like Father Christmas


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## quimcunx (Jul 26, 2010)

And Jebus.


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## Proper Tidy (Jul 26, 2010)

The Fonz


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## quimcunx (Jul 26, 2010)

and Jonathan Bishop.


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## Proper Tidy (Jul 26, 2010)

Heeeeeey


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## fractionMan (Jul 26, 2010)

a legend in his own lifetime


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## fogbat (Jul 26, 2010)

bellend


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## fractionMan (Jul 26, 2010)

Bagend.

Tolkien _did_ have a sense of humour after all.


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## marty21 (Jul 26, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> Bagend.
> 
> Tolkien _did_ have a sense of humour after all.


 
I'm sort of related to tolkien - via mrs21 who is related to him via marriage - 

very tenous


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 26, 2010)

bishy, as a devotee of robin hood, how do you live with the fact that he was a class struggle anarchist who devoted his life to a redistribution of wealth and cared for the poor and needy, whilst your political alignment and post on here show you to be a reinforcer of economic hierarchies, a pro-business, pro-church, hater of the poor who supports imposition of inequality on to the neediest in society?

Do you not think that that's a bit odd?


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## marty21 (Jul 26, 2010)

Robin Hood was slightly pro-church - he had a friar as a mate - although the friar had been kicked out of the church tbf


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## marty21 (Jul 26, 2010)

clearly we need a Robin Hood forum, now if only we could find someone who has run a successful Robin Hood forum 
any ideas?


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## Proper Tidy (Jul 26, 2010)

A successful one? No.


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 26, 2010)

el-ahrairah said:


> class struggle anarchist



I believe everyone should be equal before the law, and that sovereignty should lie with the people. Ideally we would have no government, just communities which are self-sufficient and self-regulating.



el-ahrairah said:


> devoted his life to a redistribution of wealth and cared for the poor and needy



The only national state institutions we need are the NHS and HMRC. The purpose of the state should be to collect tax and redistribute in order to provide universal provision of basic needs. So, you should be able to every two years walk into any opticians and get a free sight-test, and free prescription glasses up-to a certain value, which you can upgrade. It shouldn't matter how wealthy you are, as the current system where this is only available to the poor keeps people in poverty.




el-ahrairah said:


> pro-business, pro-church



I am pro-business, I think everyone should own one, or part of one. As for the church, I am an agnostic who takes part in Christian culture. I think religion can give people a disciplined lifestyle with opportunities for thought and social engagement, therefore improving health, but all are man-made and not to be taken as 'the truth', which is inaccessible with current science.



el-ahrairah said:


> hater of the poor who supports imposition of inequality on to the neediest in society?



I'm an egalitarian. I believe everyone should have as much wealth as they are capable of using. So, I disagree with the existence of wealthy people with millions in the bank which they are not using. That money should be in the economy, developing new products, creating new jobs. If they are not using it, they obviously have more than they need, so more needy people should have it.


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 26, 2010)

marty21 said:


> Robin Hood was slightly pro-church - he had a friar as a mate - although the friar had been kicked out of the church tbf


 
Robin Hood actually conducted a marriage, of Alan a Dale. Latest evidence shows he was despised by the Church.


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## editor (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm still getting my head around a self professed 'Internet Expert' who appears to consider himself in the top 50,000 of all humankind thinking that a bulletin board that attracted two users was some sort of success, and that anyone is going to believe his deceitful tosh about the aforementioned board then being closed down due to excessive bandwidth charges.


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## editor (Jul 26, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Robin Hood actually conducted a marriage, of Alan a Dale. Latest evidence shows he was despised by the Church.


 
What do your Ladybird reference books say? 

lol


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## phildwyer (Jul 26, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I believe everyone should be equal before the law, and that sovereignty should lie with the people. Ideally we would have no government, just communities which are self-sufficient and self-regulating.


 
Fair enough, and certainly in line with Robin Hood.  But Robin Hood believed in violent direct action to bring about such a state of affairs.  Why do you feel Hoodian tactics are unfeasible in today's environment?


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 26, 2010)

phildwyer said:


> Fair enough, and certainly in line with Robin Hood.  But Robin Hood believed in violent direct action to bring about such a state of affairs.  Why do you feel Hoodian tactics are unfeasible in today's environment?


 
Robin Hood, if he had Asperger Syndrome, would have had difficulty communicating himself, hence why he took bold actions to get his message across. For example, his fights with Little John and Friar Tuck. Like many with Autism, he was highly principled, courageous, with a strong sense of justice. I've spotted many a student rebel who has autism - it is actually quite funny how passionate young autistic people are (like Robin Hood), compared with how disheartened they get when they are older and suppressed by those with power. Maybe there's a Robin Hood in all of us?


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## marty21 (Jul 26, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Robin Hood actually conducted a marriage, of Alan a Dale. Latest evidence shows he was despised by the Church.


 
interesting

did Robin wear tights ?


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## phildwyer (Jul 26, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Maybe there's a Robin Hood in all of us?



Maybe so, maybe so indeed.  

But really Jonathan, if Robin Hood were alive today don't you think he'd be off fighting with the Zapatistas or living on a commune in Oregon or something?  I don't think he'd be a NuLabor Councillor and Internet Leader, laudable as such roles indupitably are.  What is preventing you from unleashing your inner Hood?


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 26, 2010)

phildwyer said:


> What is preventing you from unleashing your inner Hood?


 
An acceptance of mine and society's limitations.


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## phildwyer (Jul 26, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> An acceptance of mine and society's limitations.



Oh aye, that'd be it.  Back to the drawing board.

Anyway, you strike me as a good man, Jonathan, and you'd have my vote if I lived in your constituency.   Not everybody can take this sort of ribbing with equanimity, fair play to you.


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## DotCommunist (Jul 26, 2010)

marty21 said:


> Robin Hood was slightly pro-church - he had a friar as a mate - although the friar had been kicked out of the church tbf


 
In any case friaries and that were seperate from the established church and ploughed their own furrow. They sometimes had beef with the orthodox church who were mad greedy.


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 26, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> In any case friaries and that were seperate from the established church and ploughed their own furrow. They sometimes had beef with the orthodox church who were mad greedy.


 
You're right, if Friar Tuck had been around between 1160 and 1198 as some claim was Robin Hood's lifetime, then he would have been a Cistercian Monk, not a Friar.


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## ddraig (Jul 26, 2010)

dont get all blydi sensible and actual factual on us now jb!


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## zog (Jul 26, 2010)

well its good to see you back and i can't help but admire your single mindedness and thick skin. can i just ask for a bit of clarification on this statement please:



jonathanbishop said:


> As for the church, I am an agnostic who takes part in Christian culture. .


 
does this mean that you don't believe in god but are happy to get xmas cards and pressies, or that you don't believe, but attend church (in hope of getting some granny votes, like your ex master blaire)?


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 26, 2010)

zog said:


> does this mean that you don't believe in god but are happy to get xmas cards and pressies, or that you don't believe, but attend church (in hope of getting some granny votes, like your ex master blaire)?


 
It means that I have found people who go to church to be generally friendly and good intentioned and the values of Christianity to be ones I respect and think are a good path to follow for a society in which everyone is included and welcomed. However, it also means I am not convinced that the Bible carries anymore weight about the world's history than any good science fiction novel. I'm open minded about the existence of a higher being of any form, but don't think science can provide the answer either way, so think that the only scientifically valid faith is no faith.


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## editor (Jul 26, 2010)

....Still waiting for Jonathan to reveal the visitor figures and page impressions for his "high bandwidth cost"-incurring website.


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 26, 2010)

editor said:


> ....Still waiting for Jonathan to reveal the visitor figures and page impressions for his "high bandwidth cost"-incurring website.


 
The site had 99 users within the first 10 weeks of launching. I don't have any page impression data, but you must remember re: the bandwidth - this was 2000-2003 and the sponsor was a small charity and I wasn't exactly rich either.


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## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> The site had 99 users within the first 10 weeks of launching. I don't have any page impression data, but you must remember re: the bandwidth - this was 2000-2003 and the sponsor was a small charity and I wasn't exactly rich either.


Stop fucking bullshitting.

I've been running sites since 1995 and I know all about bandwidth charges - and there is no way on earth a hopelessly failing niche website with barely any users would even come close to incurring "high bandwidth charges" - even with your fantasy bustling chat room. 

Your 'latest events' section managed just two entries for the whole of 2002, with the 'latest news' section only mustering the grand total of _three_ entries.

Your discussion boards limped to a grand tally of just six empty threads for the entire duration of the site (!), so the traffic would be so light as to barely register - and you could have got free hosting with any one of a multitude of free sites, anyway. 

So why did you make this charity pay money? And what charity was this? Why is there no registered charity number visible on the site?


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 27, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> The site had 99 users within the first 10 weeks of launching. I don't have any page impression data, but you must remember re: the bandwidth - this was 2000-2003 and the sponsor was a small charity and I wasn't exactly rich either.


 
bwahahahahahaha 

this is hil-ar-i-ous...


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 27, 2010)

editor said:


> So why did you make this charity pay money? And what charity was this? Why is there no registered charity number visible on the site?



It was the Llantrisant Town Trust, who commissioned the site. You can read the full report in my degree dissertation:
http://www.jonathanbishop.com/Library/Documents/EN/docCs311Report.pdf


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## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 27, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> It was the Llantrisant Town Trust, who commissioned the site. You can read the full report in my degree dissertation:
> http://www.jonathanbishop.com/Library/Documents/EN/docCs311Report.pdf


 
tbh you need to be taken to court by them for fraud then...


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## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> It was the Llantrisant Town Trust, who commissioned the site. You can read the full report in my degree dissertation:
> http://www.jonathanbishop.com/Library/Documents/EN/docCs311Report.pdf


All this ludicrous waffle for a fucking tiny website that flopped hopelessly.  I actually feel sorry for the poor sods who had to deal with you. 

Funny how there's no mention of these 'high bandwidth charges' too. 



> 24/09/2001
> Jonathan Bishop reported that he had completed the background reading to the project. He
> also reported that the Task Analysis had been put on the web, but was not active due to the
> effects of the Nimda worm on the university server.
> ...


How much did they pay you for this webastrophe, btw?


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 27, 2010)

editor said:


> How much did they pay you for this webastrophe, btw?



I didn't get paid by them for the development of Llantrisant Online (which wasn't a 'webastrophe' BTW) - I was working at Broadway Studios at the time and the project was part of my degree. But I paid the hosting charges and they reimbursed me. When I sent them a bill for £140 as per our agreement they refused to pay it! What was I supposed to do but cut my losses. I followed Derek Powazek's guidelines for closing a community as you can see from the Internet archives.


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## meurig (Jul 27, 2010)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> tbh you need to be taken to court by them for fraud then...


 
That's a bit strong Garf - how exactly did he defraud them?

OTH I'm beginning to think it wouldn't be so bad if Treforest Poly were to feel the brunt of Higher Education Cuts.


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## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I didn't get paid by them for the development of Llantrisant Online (which wasn't a 'webastrophe' BTW) - I was working at Broadway Studios at the time and the project was part of my degree. But I paid the hosting charges and they reimbursed me. When I sent them a bill for £140 as per our agreement they refused to pay it! What was I supposed to do but cut my losses. I followed Derek Powazek's guidelines for closing a community as you can see from the Internet archives.


So it was such a disaster, they refused to pay you. That certainly looks like a total webastrophe to me: it was all talk and no action from you. And no users. And - time to be honest now, please - no busy, bustling, bandwidth-crushing chatroom either. 


jonathanbishop said:


> I followed Derek Powazek's guidelines for closing a community as you can see from the Internet archives.


Does Derek Powazek (whoever he is) recommended automatically redirecting users to the designers unrelated personal site?


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## toggle (Jul 27, 2010)

editor said:


> So it was such a disaster, they refused to pay you. That certainly looks like a total webastrophe to me: all talk and no action. And no users. And - time to be honest now, please - no busy, bustling, bandwidth-crushing chatroom either.
> Does Derek Powazek (whoever he is) recommended automatically redirecting users to the designers unrelated personal site?


 
how busy would a chatroom have to be to eat significant bandwidth? from what i've been told, that woudln't be a significant cost.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jul 27, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I believe everyone should be equal before the law, and that sovereignty should lie with the people. Ideally we would have no government, just communities which are self-sufficient and self-regulating.


 
But what about the poor sods that end up in your community? With no escape from your self-regulating? Poor buggers.


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

toggle said:


> how busy would a chatroom have to be to eat significant bandwidth? from what i've been told, that woudln't be a significant cost.


It would have to be *phenomenally* busy to have any significant impact on bandwidth, and would require a committed hardcore of hundreds - if not thousands - of regular users.

That's why I know Jonathan is bullshitting here.


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## rollinder (Jul 27, 2010)

editor said:


> That's a load of fookin' shite. Mind you, seeing as you've never run a busy, successful bulletin board it's no surprise to see you haven't got a fucking clue about them.
> 
> I've also no idea why you're referencing an unrelated book that is nearly a decade old.


 
he's spamming his amazon associate link (the jonathanbishop-21 bit) in the hope one of us will buy something and give him some monney.


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 27, 2010)

editor said:


> It would have to be *phenomenally* busy to have any significant impact on bandwidth, and would require a committed hardcore of hundreds - if not thousands - of regular users.


 
The chatroom was written in HTML using the 'Refresh' command - that is why.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 27, 2010)

*bites tongue*


----------



## marty21 (Jul 27, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> The site had 99 users within the first 10 weeks of launching. I don't have any page impression data, but you must remember re: the bandwidth - this was 2000-2003 and the sponsor was a small charity and I wasn't exactly rich either.


 
99 users in 10 weeks!!! 

cheesus, that must have been the busiest site in whole of the internets!


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## kabbes (Jul 27, 2010)

It's numbers like that that make you one of the top 0.001% people in the world.


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## kabbes (Jul 27, 2010)

Assuming that the numbers are distributed as evenly as surely they must be in such a scientifically rigorous study, I'm curious to know who the other 499 UK residents were in that top 50,000 people.  I'm thinking possibly Cheryl Cole?  And also there's this guy Keith and my work who's quite good at getting new clients in.


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## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> The chatroom was written in HTML using the 'Refresh' command - that is why.


Really. So, on average, how many users were on this unbelievably busy, bandwidth-chomping HTML chat room every hour of the day and how come none of them elected to post on your tumbleweed-strewn, webastophic bulletin boards?

Oh, I ran a HTML chat room for a while. And that's why _I know_ that you're still bullshitting.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 27, 2010)

Jonathan Bishop is starting to win the argument here, I think. It seems that the case against him is based almost entirely on pedantic niggling about how many users his site from nearly ten years ago had. Who cares about that? He is responding in a calm and reasoned way to all the questions being put to him. I for one welcome our new poster, jonathanbishop.


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## kabbes (Jul 27, 2010)

Gawd bless yer, teuchter.  Gawd bless yer.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 27, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Gawd bless yer, teuchter.  Gawd bless yer.


 
that post probably put him in the top 50000 imo


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

Curiously, there appears to be no link to this bustling, bandwidth-guzzling chat room from the front page. I wonder how all these hundreds of users managed to find it as they stampeded to join the scintillating conversation.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 27, 2010)

I'd just like to point out that none of this is my fault, ok?


----------



## kabbes (Jul 27, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> I'd just like to point out that none of this is my fault, ok?


 
To be honest, it's amazing that such a blatant call-out thread has managed to survive for 350 posts.


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> I'd just like to point out that none of this is my fault, ok?


 Indeed, It's all JB's doing, and if he insists on endless braying on about his "achievements" from the past, then posters have every right to question their credibility and truthfulness.

He's really not doing very well at the moment - and he's only got himself to blame!


----------



## bonathanjishop (Jul 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Oh, I ran a HTML chat room for a while. And that's why _I know_ that you're still bullshitting.


 
Well now I can get 30GB of bandwith for £25, but back then you couldn't get much. Add on top of that UK2.net's domain fees and DNS charges, you're talking more money than a charity with low income can afford. Your perceptions of high cost and theirs is clearly different.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 27, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> I'd just like to point out that none of this is my fault, ok?


 
the evidence is mounting up


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 27, 2010)

kabbes said:


> To be honest, it's amazing that such a blatant call-out thread has managed to survive for 350 posts.


 
even my call out threads are epic*



*sample size: 1


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## quimcunx (Jul 27, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> I'd just like to point out that none of this is my fault, ok?


 
au contraire mon frère.  I think you'll find the evidence is stacking up against you.


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> Well now I can get 30GB of bandwith for £25, but back then you couldn't get much. Add on top of that UK2.net's domain fees and DNS charges, you're talking more money than a charity with low income can afford. Your perceptions of high cost and theirs is clearly different.


Stop wriggling about and answer the question. Exactly how many people were using this bandwidth guzzling chatroom on average per hour - and why can't I even find it on the web archive?

As for cost, there was *ample* free/very low cost web space available back in 2002. I was writing for Internet Magazine at the time and we did several features on it, you hopeless, bullshitting plonker.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Jul 27, 2010)

I get a feeling that jb is ... someone who may have a higher form of mental ability/disability.. 

Instead of being an opponent of this man Ed.. Have a think eh.. Doesnt read to me like all his bases are covered... yet he has a direction that he focuses on.. 

And I've not seen any antagonism from him.. 

Just answers that he was capable of giving.. 

I don't think he can see the other aspects of what he'd doing.. yet he is doing something.. and in all seriousness there is no real harm so far.. Consider that you just may be not suffering an asperger.. 

This ills has depths not yet uncoverd.. 

Close the thread and let it go please ++++.. I think it's a very uncomfortable thread for reasons I can't quite put my finger on...........


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

Frankie Jack said:


> I get a feeling that jb is ... someone who may have a higher form of mental ability/disability..
> 
> Instead of being an opponent of this man Ed.. Have a think eh.. Doesnt read to me like all his bases are covered... yet he has a direction that he focuses on..
> 
> ...


Bearing in mind that he _elected_ to come back here purely to have a go at another poster and now seems unable to do anything other than bullshit, what do you suggest we do?

Ban him? I can't imagine him acting any different in any other thread he may post on, so the 'discomfort' is unlikely to go away.


----------



## kabbes (Jul 27, 2010)

We all know that he's talking arse though, Ed.  All of us.  It doesn't require you to do anything more to prove it.  It's palpably obvious from the first thread and the 350+ posts in this thread.  At this point, you really could afford to just not bother to respond to him again.  If the rest of us do likewise, it'll just die.


----------



## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

kabbes said:


> We all know that he's talking arse though, Ed.  All of us.  It doesn't require you to do anything more to prove it.  It's palpably obvious from the first thread and the 350+ posts in this thread.  At this point, you really could afford to just not bother to respond to him again.  If the rest of us do likewise, it'll just die.


It's clearly pointless trying to debate anything with him because he's clearly not here for a discussion, but to just repeat himself regardless of the truthfulness of his claims or the facts. So I'll do my best to ignore him.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jul 27, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> I believe everyone should be equal before the law, and that sovereignty should lie with the people. Ideally we would have no government, just communities which are self-sufficient and self-regulating.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

So why the fuck are you Labour then when you don't share any of their values or aims, or those of their funders who have more say in party direction that any member?  Cognitive dissonance much?


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## toggle (Jul 27, 2010)

editor said:


> It would have to be *phenomenally* busy to have any significant impact on bandwidth, and would require a committed hardcore of hundreds - if not thousands - of regular users.
> 
> That's why I know Jonathan is bullshitting here.


 
pretty much what i thought.


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 27, 2010)

el-ahrairah said:


> So why the fuck are you Labour then when you don't share any of their values or aims, or those of their funders who have more say in party direction that any member?  Cognitive dissonance much?



The Labour Party's aim is:



> The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It
> believes that by the strength of our common
> endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone,
> so as to create for each of us the means to realise
> ...



One of their objectives is:



> A DYNAMIC ECONOMY, serving the public interest, in which the enterprise of the market and the rigour of competition are joined with the forces of partnership and co-operation to produce the wealth the nation needs and the opportunity for all to work and prosper with a thriving private sector and high-quality public services where those undertakings essential to the common good are either owned by the public or accountable to them



I think its most of the other members that would be experiencing cognitive dissonance if they actually read the party's constitution.


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## Frankie Jack (Jul 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Bearing in mind that he _elected_ to come back here purely to have a go at another poster and now seems unable to do anything other than bullshit, what do you suggest we do?
> 
> Ban him? I can't imagine him acting any different in any other thread he may post on, so the 'discomfort' is unlikely to go away.


 


Wasn't asking you to ban him ++++.. Just suggested that the thread be closed.. Mebbe its just me but having followed the thread and the other one from the start I feel as though this lad aint quite the full shilling.. Jeez there are many in power similar with a one track point of view.. Half the cabinet of the gubmnt are kinda similar in their fuckwittery.. How d'ya think twats get into power.. fuckwits that just appear in politics that we've seen so many times before.. Eejits that are doing what they can to be noticed like this twunt is.. Close him down.. he's using the site to get his search up..

He's just as daft as another so called Scottish political poster that I'm not gonna give his name a google search..


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## phildwyer (Jul 27, 2010)

editor said:


> Stop wriggling about and answer the question. Exactly how many people were using this bandwidth guzzling chatroom on average per hour - and why can't I even find it on the web archive?


 
Who cares?

What I'm seeing here is JB responding in a calm and polite manner to some pretty aggressive and pointless attacks on him, which are being backed up by a fairly unpleasant chorus of sycophants.


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 27, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> The Labour Party's aim is:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
So what you're saying is that you support Labour's pro-big business stance whilst being in favour of small businesses that can't compete with the likes of Labour major funders?


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## el-ahrairah (Jul 27, 2010)

phildwyer said:


> Who cares?
> 
> What I'm seeing here is JB responding in a calm and polite manner to some pretty aggressive and pointless attacks on him, which are being backed up by a fairly unpleasant chorus of sycophants.


 
oh god phil, not the monothought clique argument.  truly you let down the ranks of the white knights, defending the honour of liars and deluded fantasists everywhere.  they never use that argument.


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## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

phildwyer said:


> Who cares?
> 
> What I'm seeing here is JB responding in a calm and polite manner to some pretty aggressive and pointless attacks on him, which are being backed up by a fairly unpleasant chorus of sycophants.


Actually, he started this thread with an attack on another named poster, in direct contravention of the rules here. 

He then went on to try and bullshit everyone with a stream of nonsense telling everyone how brilliant he is and how he knows better than anyone else, so I'm not surprised some people got a little exasperated with his wriggling, disingenuous conduct.

I said I'd ignore him from now on, but was promptly informed that such a course of action "was a form of abuse" related to children. Or something.

Anyway, it's clear you're only trying to stir up trouble anyway, so I'll leave you to it and I'm afraid Jonathan's "abuse" will have to continue as I'm fed up trying to get the truth out of him.


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## teuchter (Jul 27, 2010)

Perhaps an independent arbiter would be a constructive way forward with this?

JB could present the evidence for why he is a leading figure in various fields, and then others could present evidence for why they are, in fact, more leading than him. Then we would be able to look at this objectively and identify who is leading in which fields and to what extent.


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## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Perhaps an independent arbiter would be a constructive way forward with this?


Perhaps you could just stop stirring instead?


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## phildwyer (Jul 27, 2010)

You'll all be sorry when he's PM.


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## bonathanjishop (Jul 27, 2010)

el-ahrairah said:


> So what you're saying is that you support Labour's pro-big business stance whilst being in favour of small businesses that can't compete with the likes of Labour major funders?


 
Most people in the Labour Party were quite happy when my brother lost his shares in Northern Rock when it was nationalised, further back many were pleased when a relative of my brother-in-law lost his shares in Railtrack when it was de facto-nationalised. That doesn't sound like Labour are very Pro-business and signed-up to their constitution's commitment to have a thriving private sector where 'emanations of the state' are owned by the public. I'm no state socialist, but most people in the Labour Party are, despite the reforms Tony Blair made.

If you were to read my LLM dissertation on the e-learning industry, you would see that I'm in favour of a European Union of small businesses each with their specialised offerings. Big business is not really big business if the only market it serves is the UK, or its offerings are in fragmented markets across the union. So as someone going into mobile phone application development, I'd like to see Big Mobile Phone Businesses across the EU, where for example, a call made on Vodafone in one member state to another costs the same as if it was in the same member state. It shouldn't matter which member state you got your contract in, you should be able to use it in any other at the same cost, in my opinion.


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## kabbes (Jul 27, 2010)

You like writing your little essays, eh?  Teaching the rest of us what's what?  Good fellow.  Make sure you file them all safely and I'm sure I'll get to them at some point.


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## teuchter (Jul 27, 2010)

Well, this thread still isn't showing up in google results, unlike his own website, so it seems that Jonathan Bishop knows what he is doing as far as search engine optimisation is concerned.


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## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> Well, this thread still isn't showing up in google results, unlike his own website, so it seems that Jonathan Bishop knows what he is doing as far as search engine optimisation is concerned.


Stop stirring please.


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## teuchter (Jul 27, 2010)

It's a simple statement of fact.


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## editor (Jul 27, 2010)

teuchter said:


> It's a simple statement of fact.


You're not really up to speed here, are you?

He arrived here after vanity searching the obscure term: "Jonathan Bishop Labour Ponty Town" and finding urban75.

Now, thanks to his sterling efforts here, he can be swiftly found as a *top three* result for "Jonathan Bishop Labour".

Or do you think it was all part of a cunning plan to make it easier for people to find examples of him making an arse of himself and being slagged off by members of a large online community?


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## teuchter (Jul 27, 2010)

He is indeed in the top results for those searches, but presumably this was the case before he posted on U75 as it was conducting those searches that led him here in the first place.

"Jonathan Bishop" - no U75 on first 5 pages of google

"Jonathan Bishop Councillor" - no u75 on first 3 pages of google

"Jonathan Bishop Pontypridd" - no U75 on first page of google

My feeling is that the might of U75 google search status is yet to bring him down. However, perhaps if people continue this pantomime thread long enough, it will catch up with him. I don't know - I'm not a chartered IT professional.


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## jonnyd1978 (Jul 28, 2010)

This thread makes many look like cunts.


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## editor (Jul 28, 2010)

jonnyd1978 said:


> This thread makes many look like cunts.


Welcome to the club.


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## ddraig (Jul 28, 2010)

what's the fucking problem?? 
JB could just back down and stop all the bollocks grandstanding


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## fractionMan (Jul 28, 2010)

To be fair, this thread needs to be seen in context of the other, more epic one.  The one that riled him enough to return here and call me out.


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## claphamboy (Jul 30, 2010)

jonathanbishop said:


> You can cite my blog if you wish for now:
> http://jonathanbishop.com/index.php/403/sysop-prerogative/


 
Comments are moderated.


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## claphamboy (Jul 30, 2010)

fractionMan said:


> a legend in his own lifetime bathtime



Slight correction for you.


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## claphamboy (Jul 30, 2010)

phildwyer said:


> You'll all be sorry when he's PM.


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