# Day of Civil Disobedience 5th November



## everything2go (Oct 12, 2013)

Apologies if there is already a thread on this.

Anonymous, the people's assembly, and the TUC congress are all backing this. Thoughts?


----------



## Belushi (Oct 12, 2013)

Are the TUC really backing this? Sounds a bit radical for them


----------



## brogdale (Oct 12, 2013)

Belushi said:


> Are the TUC really backing this? Sounds a bit radical for them



Apparently...


> *Extracts from TUC motion*
> People are facing the biggest fall in living standards on record.
> 
> Far from tackling the deficit, George Osborne's strategy will mean an extra £245bn in borrowing.
> ...


----------



## brogdale (Oct 12, 2013)

We're not expected to wear those silly masks, are we?


----------



## ska invita (Oct 12, 2013)

it was  one of the few practical actions announced at the peoples Assembly thing (didnt john rees rabble rouse about it? i cant remember now), and ive heard nothing since... the lack of momentum suggest its hardman talk designed to channel anger into a void of firework displays while the important task of getting labour re-elected plods on.

Or am i too cynical... Has anyone seen any real attempt to mobilise for it?


----------



## everything2go (Oct 13, 2013)

Well I've seen the usual stuff online from anonymous etc. quite how online activism translates into numbers for street mobilisation I'm unsure, I've never really paid attention to numbers at anon events. The people's assembly are heavily pushing it and at least locally seem to have a healthy balance of direct action activist groups and your more traditional march, petitions and speeches brigade. What surprised me the most was the trade union support for it I picked up on from the Manchester march on the 29th. I got on a Unison coach up there and was amazed at the levels of support for it by nearly all I spoke to on the coach and at the rally, without me even raising it in conversation. This was from people that you would not normally think are into such action. There is talk of coordinating strikes for that day and it could be a means for organising towards a general strike under another name.

I have to admit the prospect of a more radical trade union movement is really exciting to me. I can't think of any other recent examples in the UK of mainstream TU support for such a day of action. Perhaps the lack of impact from polite marches has sunk in for some.


----------



## Piston (Oct 13, 2013)

everything2go said:


> Well I've seen the usual stuff online from anonymous etc. quite how online activism translates into numbers for street mobilisation I'm unsure, I've never really paid attention to numbers at anon events.



Their last #opBBC protest had about 6 people turn up when they were expecting hundreds and I'm not exaggerating. Felt sorry for them as they must have been so embarrassed.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 13, 2013)

What is this civil dosobedience expected to consist of?


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 13, 2013)

Mizzy night for grown ups


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 13, 2013)

8ball said:


> What is this civil dosobedience expected to consist of?


 
A jolly bit of marching from one place to another with no swearing or other nasty incivilities.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 23, 2013)

list of stuff around the uK   http://thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/5nov/


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 24, 2013)

So the people's assembly who is basically owen jones who is basically the back door to the labour party. Great.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2013)

I shall participate by smoking pot and watching other peoples fireworks. Same as every year


----------



## Onket (Oct 24, 2013)

ska invita said:


> list of stuff around the uK   http://thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/5nov/


 
Cheers for this.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 24, 2013)

Citizen66 said:


> So the people's assembly who is basically owen jones who is basically the back door to the labour party. Great.



I hear on the twatter grapevine that Russell is jumping on board now.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I shall participate by smoking pot and watching other peoples fireworks. Same as every year



If the revolution does start, I'll dust & oil the Purdey's & come pick you up.


----------



## alsoknownas (Oct 24, 2013)

brogdale said:


> We're not expected to wear those silly masks, are we?


Better steal it if so:


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> If the revolution does start, I'll dust & oil the Purdey's & come pick you up.







dust & oil the purdey's what?


----------



## seeformiles (Oct 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I shall participate by smoking pot and watching other peoples fireworks. Same as every year



A sensible policy for a happier Britain!


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 24, 2013)

friedaweed said:


> Mizzy night for grown ups


where i'm from, mischief night is on the 4th...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> where i'm from, mischief night is on the 4th...


and tidying up day is on the fifth


----------



## Onket (Oct 24, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> and tidying up day is on the fifth



Broom Army Day.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2013)

Onket said:


> Broom Army Day.


just so


----------



## krink (Oct 24, 2013)

Broon army


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 24, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> where i'm from, mischief night is on the 4th...


I'd never heard of it until last year. Is it a home grown one this one or is it another merkan one we're stuck with?


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 24, 2013)

friedaweed said:


> I'd never heard of it until last year. Is it a home grown one this one or is it another merkan one we're stuck with?


I was always told it was to do with the planting of the explosives the night before the 5th.
We would play knock a door run, and throw eggs and flour at stuff.
tie bin lids to house doors and stuff.
It was also often used for kids from my school to sneak to the posh public boarding school and set light to their bonfire a night early.

Some place in america have it the night before halloween.


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 24, 2013)

to be honest I think its just an excuse to act like a bad un


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 24, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> to be honest I think its *just an excuse to act like a bad un*


And there was me thinking it was just a scouse thing


----------



## jacqui (Nov 3, 2013)

friedaweed said:


> Mizzy night for grown ups


Anon (he 99%)  are asking  that this be a peaceful silent march and yes will be wearing the masks lol


----------



## jacqui (Nov 3, 2013)

alsoknownas said:


> Better steal it if so:


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 3, 2013)

jacqui said:


> Anon (he 99%)  are asking  that this be a peaceful silent march and yes will be wearing the masks lol


Where's the fun in that?

"Whatta we want?"
"Shshhhhhhhhhh!"


----------



## alsoknownas (Nov 3, 2013)

jacqui said:


>


----------



## emanymton (Nov 3, 2013)

everything2go said:


> Well I've seen the usual stuff online from anonymous etc. quite how online activism translates into numbers for street mobilisation I'm unsure, I've never really paid attention to numbers at anon events. The people's assembly are heavily pushing it and at least locally seem to have a healthy balance of direct action activist groups and your more traditional march, petitions and speeches brigade. What surprised me the most was the trade union support for it I picked up on from the Manchester march on the 29th. I got on a Unison coach up there and was amazed at the levels of support for it by nearly all I spoke to on the coach and at the rally, without me even raising it in conversation. This was from people that you would not normally think are into such action. There is talk of coordinating strikes for that day and it could be a means for organising towards a general strike under another name.
> 
> I have to admit the prospect of a more radical trade union movement is really exciting to me. I can't think of any other recent examples in the UK of mainstream TU support for such a day of action. Perhaps the lack of impact from polite marches has sunk in for some.


I am not sure it shows unions moving in a more radical direction to be honest, and it is just a further retreat from workplace struggle.

Anyway there is something happening on the exact route I take from work to the train station, so I have no excuse for not turning up.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 4, 2013)

http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2013/11/04/november-5th-silent-march-on-parliament-by-anonymous/

Anyone popping along? Will Parliament be razed to the ground?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 4, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2013/11/04/november-5th-silent-march-on-parliament-by-anonymous/
> 
> Anyone popping along? Will Parliament be razed to the ground?


was parliament levitated in 1994?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 4, 2013)

It's above all of us that's for sure.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Just to point out that the People's Assembly thing is not the "anon" thing. The former is on Westminster Bridge and claims to want to block it (though I have a feeling that might be a touch too disobedient to actually happen). There are also various other things around London and the country. I may go along to Westminster Bridge to see what's happening.

http://thepeoplesassembly.org.uk/5nov/ which was posted on the previous page has a list. It doesn't seem to have been updated very recently but there's a fair amount there.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 5, 2013)

Just went to a *low key* event in Middlesbrough, which involved singing anti-cuts songs outside the Town Hall.  Sadly, I got photographed in front of a People's Assembly banner.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 5, 2013)

Mr Brand with a mask on his head


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Not a lot going on at the meeting point for the Westminster Bridge one, or at least there wasn't a lot going on quarter of an hour ago. Four police vans which seems a bit optimistic.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Mr Brand with a mask on his head


I don't think he's quite grasped this "anonymous" idea. Not that you'd expect him to.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 5, 2013)

Anonymous, You're doing it wrong


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 5, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Not a lot going on at the meeting point for the Westminster Bridge one, or at least there wasn't a lot going on quarter of an hour ago. Four police vans which seems a bit optimistic.



Apparently Westminster bridge is now closed?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Apparently Westminster bridge is now closed?


Just to vehicles - obv organised with the police. Parliament Square is much better. There's music and fireworks and the place stinks of dope and people shut off a road with police barricades though this has now been removed.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 5, 2013)

Spotted anyone armed with a RPG yet?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Cops grabbed someone. I smell a kettle brewing - there are lines forming gradually.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Definite kettle coming


----------



## xes (Nov 5, 2013)

get the milk and tea bags out!!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Hm. Maybe not yet, too spread out at the moment.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 5, 2013)

Owen wearing the revolutionary 'blue checked' again


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 5, 2013)

Has teh revolution started yet? Is Russel leading it?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Spotted anyone armed with a RPG yet?


Just snooker balls and ammonia. (NB JOKE)

I haven't seen Laurie Penny anywhere


----------



## kenny g (Nov 5, 2013)

Good to see people out there. I can remember the usual wankers on here waffling on with their negativity last year when I mentioned the event last year.  Afraid I can't be there, again, but good to know Russell and Owen are acting as stand ins.


----------



## treelover (Nov 5, 2013)

Absolutely no mainstream coverage, yet events right across the country, the Guardian for instance is reporting on small protests in Greece instead.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Nov 5, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Owen wearing the revolutionary 'blue checked' again



Russell Brand looks like he's joined the Amish in that picture.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

It's all pretty peaceful so far, but people are being clustered down near the Big Ben corner of the square as numbers go down. Westminster Bridge is already open again - so much for the people's assembly protest (which was a small fire with some people round it).


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Hmm. Seen a lot of vans with blue lights going north to Trafalgar Square. Perhaps somebody is doing something elsewhere (not at traf sq itself though I think, maybe closer to oxford street). Or perhaps they aren't.


----------



## HST (Nov 5, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Hmm. Seen a lot of vans with blue lights going north to Trafalgar Square. Perhaps somebody is doing something elsewhere (not at traf sq itself though I think, maybe closer to oxford street). Or perhaps they aren't.


Maybe heading for the Charing Cross McDonalds. I've seen them there at other demos, loading up on healthy food and fine coffee.


----------



## killer b (Nov 5, 2013)

looks like they're probably going trafalgar tbf.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 5, 2013)

According to someone who I follow on twatter - someone's just been knocked down by a speeding cop van. Doesn't seem good. Near buck palace.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> According to someone who I follow on twatter - someone's just been knocked down by a speeding cop van. Doesn't seem good. Near buck palace.


There was an ambulance going up that way with the vans too (maybe half an hour ago - I've lazily stopped off for a pint just south of Trafalgar).


----------



## killer b (Nov 5, 2013)

i can't remember the last demo where there wasn't a report via twitter of someone getting knocked down by a cop van/ car - has it ever been real?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 5, 2013)

A woman knocked down, on the Mall. Plod van going far too fucking fast towards a crowd.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 5, 2013)

killer b said:


> i can't remember the last demo where there wasn't a report via twitter of someone getting knocked down by a cop van/ car - has it ever been real?



Lets hope it isn't real, but another episode of twitter fantasy eh?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 5, 2013)

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-11-05/anonymous-protests-parliament-square/

17 minutes ago
*Anonymous protest in Ireland and Northern Ireland*


----------



## killer b (Nov 5, 2013)

hopefully. sorry, wasn't meaning to come across callous - it just occurred to me that it's something that crops up each time.


----------



## killer b (Nov 5, 2013)

those fucking masks. makes you look back with fondness to the days of balaclavas.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 5, 2013)

*https://twitter.com/pamela_nash/status/397797974862204929*

* *


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 5, 2013)

http://bambuser.com/v/4072921

From earlier/not live ^^^


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 5, 2013)

http://bambuser.com/v/4073484

Now live ^^^


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 5, 2013)

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2013-11-05/anonymous-protests-parliament-square/

just now
*Anonymous march spreads to Buckingham Palace*
Protesters taking part in the Million Mask March have spread from Trafalgar Square towards Westminster as well as down the Mall towards Buckingham Palace.


----------



## FNG (Nov 5, 2013)




----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 5, 2013)

> paramedics on the scene. woman protester being taken to hospital. cops take statements and prepare to concoct a story.





> i saw the speeding cop van. i heard the thud. cop van trying to get round before more barriers placed in it's way


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2013)

killer b said:


> those fucking masks. makes you look back with fondness to the days of balaclavas.




at least on today of all days a guy fawkes mask bears some relevance


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

killer b said:


> those fucking masks. makes you look back with fondness to the days of balaclavas.


They do work though. If it takes wanky Internet shite to get kids to mask up before doing stuff then so be it.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Mr.Bishie said:


> quotes


They'll blame that on protestors moving barricades and causing a traffic accident then.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Nov 5, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> They'll blame that on protestors moving barricades and causing a traffic accident then.



Of course they will. Cunts.


----------



## treelover (Nov 5, 2013)

ITV News

Outside Parliament, Journos from the BBC speaking about other issues about 100 yards away ignoring it, Pravda is reborn


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

Not much at parliament square any more - a few people on the pavement but the cops seem mostly interested in stopping anyone blocking the roads again.


----------



## discokermit (Nov 5, 2013)

.


----------



## malatesta32 (Nov 5, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Russell Brand looks like he's joined the Amish in that picture.


probably the only people who arent sick of hearing about him.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2013)

discokermit said:


> this'll annoy people,



lol at the bloke with his specs on outside his mask


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

I thought it had a good atmosphere. Fine, Brand and Jones and so on were there waving their faces about but mostly it seemed like groups of people coming down on their own terms and claiming public space without stewards and liaisons and fucking UNISON balloons. The contrast to the People's Assembly thing - a small bonfire with cops around it and folk singing songs, vs a square full of people letting off fireworks and playing drum and bass and using barricades for their own purposes to block off roads rather than block their own movement - was pretty noticeable.

Long term readers will know how much I hate anything related to "anon" as well.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 5, 2013)

http://rt.com/news/anonymous-protest-live-updates-232/


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Nov 5, 2013)

treelover said:


> ITV News
> 
> Outside Parliament, Journos from the BBC speaking about other issues about 100 yards away ignoring it, Pravda is reborn




Yep. To underline that I'm told that RT are giving the protests better coverage than our own Pravda Press.

The doublethink gets worse IMO, because I doubt that people used to portray Pravda as anti establishment in the way that we are told the BBC is "left wing" or the right wing press are "daring" as opposed to reactionary.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 5, 2013)

Some pics etc

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/russell-brand-joins-thousands-gathering-2680086


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2013)

I'll have some of mine up when I get home. Some were on film. I really need to get a digital which has decent high ISO performance.


----------



## sunny jim (Nov 6, 2013)

Fireworks hitting Buckingham Palace was the highlight of the night for me!  That was ace, I thought the pigs would have a right moody after that, but tbh after all Anonymous said they still didn't expect us! They never, all night, had enough numbers to kettle us - I would have loved to have had a cop scanner to listen in, bet the brass were going ballistic!


----------



## albionism (Nov 6, 2013)




----------



## andysays (Nov 6, 2013)

At the risk of outing myself as a cynical and miserable old git, I'd like to repeat a question which I posed on the Brand thread



andysays said:


> Can you explain how or why a well attended day of action (whatever that means) would actually result in, or even contribute to, a significant level of change in any of those things?
> 
> As far as I can see, it may give a few people a temporary internal glow at being a part of something, but other than that will be largely meaningless



So now, on the morning after, when all that's left is the hangover, the smell of fireworks on your clothes and hundreds of broken Anon masks littering the streets of Central London, what does it all mean?


----------



## Onket (Nov 6, 2013)

At the very least, surely, it raises awareness and builds the confidence of those who question things? Next time will be bigger, then bigger after that, etc.

What's the alternative? Stay at home watching telly?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2013)

andysays said:


> At the risk of outing myself as a cynical and miserable old git, I'd like to repeat a question which I posed on the Brand thread
> 
> 
> 
> So now, on the morning after, when all that's left is the hangover, the smell of fireworks on your clothes and hundreds of broken Anon masks littering the streets of Central London, what does it all mean?



mean to whom? Mean is a good word here- its not about immediate objectives is it. Unfocused, twatty v-masked as it might be. It's expression of dissidence however you look at it. Do I want better, more concrete, more edged and concrete demands demos? of course I do. 


The one thing thats really been bugging me with the assange/anon/vmask wankers is not just their dodgy conspiranoid roots. That has bugged me for ages tbf. But how a contingent of these lot shouted 'you're a man in a dress' at a trans woman during the anarcho bookfair.

these cunts are poison


----------



## joustmaster (Nov 6, 2013)

anything is better than nothing


----------



## xes (Nov 6, 2013)

andysays said:


> At the risk of outing myself as a cynical and miserable old git, I'd like to repeat a question which I posed on the Brand thread
> 
> 
> 
> So now, on the morning after, when all that's left is the hangover, the smell of fireworks on your clothes and hundreds of broken Anon masks littering the streets of Central London, what does it all mean?


yeah, better stay inside and never go to a protest, cos like, it doesn't "mean" anything. Turn the BBC back on and get all of your opinions on protests from there, looks like it's what you've been doing for the last x years anyway.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2013)

xes said:


> yeah, better stay inside and never go to a protest, cos like, it doesn't "mean" anything. Turn the BBC back on and get all of your opinions on protests from there, looks like it's what you've been doing for the last x years anyway.




and thats why even broadly sympathetic people fail to be onside- seriously. Be anon or be voiceless. Yeah.


----------



## andysays (Nov 6, 2013)

Onket said:


> ...What's the alternative? Stay at home watching telly?



Oh dear...


----------



## andysays (Nov 6, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> anything is better than nothing



Oh dear...


----------



## andysays (Nov 6, 2013)

xes said:


> yeah, better stay inside and never go to a protest, cos like, it doesn't "mean" anything. Turn the BBC back on and get all of your opinions on protests from there, looks like it's what you've been doing for the last x years anyway.



Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear


----------



## Onket (Nov 6, 2013)

andysays said:


> Oh dear...


 
Why ignore the majority of my post and only quote the throwaway comment at the end?

Oh dear indeed.


----------



## killer b (Nov 6, 2013)

i guess one thing is you never know what's going to happen on these things - i remember the morning of millbank, people on here (possibly including me...) saying how pointless it was.


----------



## Onket (Nov 6, 2013)

If fireworks were fired at Buckingham Palace, that's enough of a point for me. Success. Next time, actual missiles.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 6, 2013)

The blanket contempt and dismissing of people involved in this and or other actions like it is depressing.

Over the last year or so involved in the online campaigns etc for the bedroom tax/welfare reforms I have met a hell of a lot of people who are only just becoming politically aware and/or cutting their teeth by attending demos/marches and/or getting involved in lobbying/letter writing etc.

It's a good thing IMO. People are growing in confidence and awareness as a result. So what if they are not joining the 'cool' political clubs/actions yet, give them a chance. So what if they haven't got their theoretical/historical knowledge _down _yet. So what if some of it is gimmicky? Some people around here go on like they were born reciting the Communist manifesto!


----------



## andysays (Nov 6, 2013)

Onket said:


> Why ignore the majority of my post and only quote the throwaway comment at the end?
> 
> Oh dear indeed.



OK, let's look at the rest of your post



Onket said:


> At the very least, surely, it raises awareness and builds the confidence of those who question things? Next time will be bigger, then bigger after that, etc...



Raises awareness of what, among whom and to what end?

I agree that it might build confidence/give some people a temporary warm glow, but so what, street protest as mass psychotherapy?

Even if this proves to be the case, and there's no real reason to argue that it will, holding a protest so that you'll get a bigger protest next time doesn't seem to have much going for it as a political strategy.

It seems to be not that far from the cliche Trot approach of "we need to sell a lot of papers, so we can recruit more people, so we can sell a lot of papers..."

Or is there something more that I've missed?

I also find it amusing that I've been accused by more than one person of staying at home and watching telly (because clearly that's what *everyone* who questions what this is all about must have been doing) and at the same time people are complaining that their antics are not being shown on telly, as if part of the reason for doing this thing is to be on telly...


----------



## killer b (Nov 6, 2013)

Which are the 'cool' political clubs & actions Rutita1 ?


----------



## TruXta (Nov 6, 2013)

andysays said:


> as if part of the reason for doing this thing is to be on telly...



Isn't it tho? I'm gonna guess it is.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 6, 2013)

killer b said:


> Which are the 'cool' political clubs & actions Rutita1 ?



The ones that are given most _value_ around here, the ones that involvement in is not constantly sneered at etc.


----------



## killer b (Nov 6, 2013)

such as?

i'm not seeing this blanket contempt you're moaning about. a range of views, for sure - but that's kind of what you'd expect, especially with the sometimes problematic nature of anon, brand, etc.


----------



## inva (Nov 6, 2013)

I remember Anonymous as a group of 'ironic' racists, misogynists, homophobes & anti-semites whose activities included harassing the parents of a child who died of cancer (such as spamming a memorial page with racist abuse) and flooding an internet forum on epilepsy with animated .gif images intended to cause seizures, among other 'hilarious' incidents. Is this the same lot? They use the same masks and language.


----------



## killer b (Nov 6, 2013)

it is, although the focus of their actions seems to have altered somewhat over the years.


----------



## TruXta (Nov 6, 2013)

inva said:


> I remember Anonymous as a group of 'ironic' racists, misogynists, homophobes & anti-semites whose activities included harassing the parents of a child who died of cancer (such as spamming a memorial page with racist abuse) and flooding an internet forum on epilepsy with animated .gif images intended to cause seizures, among other 'hilarious' incidents. Is this the same lot? They use the same masks and language.


That's where it came from - 4chan and all that muck.


----------



## andysays (Nov 6, 2013)

Rutita1 said:


> The blanket contempt and dismissing of people involved in this and or other actions like it is depressing...



I'm certainly not attempting to dismiss people involved in this action out of hand, I'm asking them to explain what the purpose of it is.



Rutita1 said:


> The ones that are given most _value_ around here, the ones that involvement in is not constantly sneered at etc.



Some of my responses have certainly been sneery, but that's perhaps because no one, as far as I can see, has really given an adequete answer to the question of what this is supposed to achieve.

Instead, they seem to be assuming that anyone who asks questions must be dismissing them and must be fully complicit in the BBC-watching, state-ideology worshipping mass of the sheeple.

ETA: something's gone wrong with the quoting in this post, but I hope it's now clear what I'm trying to say


----------



## albionism (Nov 6, 2013)

I personally don't give a fuck about how politically astute or naive the
demonstrators are/were. Buckingham Palace got hit by fireworks! Rejoice!


----------



## sunnysidedown (Nov 6, 2013)

albionism said:


> I personally don't give a fuck about how politically astute or naive the
> demonstrators are/were. Buckingham Palace got hit by fireworks! Rejoice!



1:10 almost through the window.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 6, 2013)

Being told elsewhere that it's a cover up that this isn't top headline news...


----------



## treelover (Nov 6, 2013)

fireworks(explosives) being fired at Buckingham Palace is big news, so why isn't it being reported?


----------



## killer b (Nov 6, 2013)

treelover said:


> fireworks(explosives) being fired at Buckingham Palace is big news, so why isn't it being reported?


seems to me the approach to reporting demos has changed since the 2010 riots. dunno whether it's a conspiracy or just avoiding a repeat of the flak the media got for supposedly perpetuating them?


----------



## inva (Nov 6, 2013)

killer b said:


> it is, although the focus of their actions seems to have altered somewhat over the years.





TruXta said:


> That's where it came from - 4chan and all that muck.


thanks.

Their politics were US far right derived bile as far as I could tell. I wonder how much overlap there is with David Icke's crowd given the Russell Brand link.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 6, 2013)

It's important not to see this as a protest "belonging to" some sort of ideological group called "anon". Lots of people were there for lots of different reasons. There were anarchist flags, rainbow flags, people opposing fracking and badger culls, kids just out for a bit of a street party and so on.

It's also important not to let anyone claiming to represent "anon" take advantage of it, particularly the cuntish trolls and bigots who pop up on the net, and I'm not entirely sure how that will happen except by everyone involved making it very clear.

All the press reports I've seen are specifically trying to say this is part of a general "anon" protest. The obvious agenda of that is that it then makes it possible to attack everybody at once.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 6, 2013)

killer b said:


> seems to me the approach to reporting demos has changed since the 2010 riots. dunno whether it's a conspiracy or just avoiding a repeat of the flak the media got for supposedly perpetuating them?


 
In what sense? Just less coverage or more in the tone?


----------



## killer b (Nov 6, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> In what sense? Just less coverage or more in the tone?


it's just an impression rather than any kind of considered analysis, but it seems a lot more low key - hardly any riot porn & whatnot.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 6, 2013)

killer b said:


> it's just an impression rather than any kind of considered analysis, but it seems a lot more low key - hardly any riot porn & whatnot.


 
Not sure I'd agree tbh. It's always been the case that you need a lot of people (and ideally a decent amount of violence) to get much coverage.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Nov 6, 2013)

I do find it quite extraordinary that fireworks being launched at Buckingham palace while the queen is in residence gets no mention on the news!


----------



## cesare (Nov 6, 2013)

Doctor Carrot said:


> I do find it quite extraordinary that fireworks being launched at Buckingham palace while the queen is in residence gets no mention on the news!


If they treat it too seriously, it loses that "let them let off a bit of steam every now and then" aspect.


----------



## unrepentant85 (Nov 6, 2013)

Will lack of exposure by the media last night not just encourage protestors to do something next time to ensure they are heard and reported on?


----------



## 8ball (Nov 6, 2013)

unrepentant85 said:


> Will lack of exposure by the media last night not just encourage protestors to do something next time to ensure they are heard and reported on?


 
Hopefully.


----------



## sunny jim (Nov 6, 2013)

unrepentant85 said:


> Will lack of exposure by the media last night not just encourage protestors to do something next time to ensure they are heard and reported on?



Next time, to coin a phrase, they'll expect us.


----------



## free spirit (Nov 6, 2013)

inva said:


> thanks.
> 
> Their politics were US far right derived bile as far as I could tell. I wonder how much overlap there is with David Icke's crowd given the Russell Brand link.


I'd ascribe the overarching politics as being somewhere between ultra liberal and anarchist.

Very anti police state, anti corporation etc, but certainly not far right as in Facism, or neoliberalism, or neo-con, and against the tea party shite.

Essentially I reckon they're probably closest to being a more web based activist inheritors of the anti-capitalist (really anti-neoliberalist) protestors of dissent, rts type ilk, very internationalist in their outlook, very combative, very anti-corporate, but yeah with a fair amount of david icke type crap mixed in.

yes they grew out of the madness of 4chan, but it'd be wrong to tar them now with all the actions that came out of 4chan 7-8 years ago when they were essentially just kids in search of targets (and probably most of the worst from those days are nothing to do with it now). They started to get serious when they took on the scientologists, I don't really think that anything before that point could really be blamed on anonymous as they now are.

Basically they're an outlet for the rage / frustration of a generation who know they're being fucked over by global corporate power so powerful it's hard to know where to start in attacking that power, and they have some balls in the targets they've taken on, even if they're a bit prone to hyperbole (which protest organisation hasn't been?).


----------



## inva (Nov 7, 2013)

free spirit said:


> I'd ascribe the overarching politics as being somewhere between ultra liberal and anarchist.
> 
> Very anti police state, anti corporation etc, but certainly not far right as in Facism, or neoliberalism, or neo-con, and against the tea party shite.
> 
> Essentially I reckon they're probably closest to being a more web based activist inheritors of the anti-capitalist (really anti-neoliberalist) protestors of dissent, rts type ilk, very internationalist in their outlook, very combative, very anti-corporate, but yeah with a fair amount of david icke type crap mixed in.



From what I remember they were obsessed with 9/11, the US Federal Reserve and Ron Paul, with much of their politics framed by anti-semitic conspiracies (some of the early media coverage Anonymous received, probably in 2007, was related to the 'Jews Did 9/11' website for example). I would guess that has changed by now to some extent, but by how much? Swapped Ron Paul and Rothbard for Max Keiser and Assange? As far as the Tea Party goes, I'd agree that they're against it, but they weren't to begin with when I think I'm right in saying it was started by the Austrian School/Ron Paul crowd who were then rapidly sidelined for the most part.

I can't claim to know much about what they've done since probably late 2008 or early 2009, so it may be that they are now very different but that would have to be have been quite a dramatic transformation.



free spirit said:


> yes they grew out of the madness of 4chan, but it'd be wrong to tar them now with all the actions that came out of 4chan 7-8 years ago when they were essentially just kids in search of targets (and probably most of the worst from those days are nothing to do with it now). They started to get serious when they took on the scientologists, I don't really think that anything before that point could really be blamed on anonymous as they now are.
> 
> Basically they're an outlet for the rage / frustration of a generation who know they're being fucked over by global corporate power so powerful it's hard to know where to start in attacking that power, and they have some balls in the targets they've taken on, even if they're a bit prone to hyperbole (which protest organisation hasn't been?).



I'd argue that they were serious about plenty of what they did prior to the anti-Scientology stuff, but it was just less palatable to those on the left.

The Anon_Central account on twitter with its almost 170,000 followers churns out Holocaust denial material, misogyny, racism, etc. I wouldn't want to associate myself with these people, personally.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 7, 2013)

I was rather charmed by the action on the 5th November. Think big and they certainly did. Forget about trying to organise a bonfire in your local park, do it in Green Park outside the Palace gates. Excellent stuff. 

Firing fireworks at the palace was a brilliant political act that will have enraged many of the establishment.

I also think the tactic of wearing the V for Victory masks is a better option than black bloc tactics. It makes subsequent identification very hard indeed.

I hooked up with Anon when they confronted the Scientologists and again they were quite effective, they do what they say that are going to do and don’t give a fuck.

I want more!!


----------



## Greenemeanie (Nov 7, 2013)

Film I did of Tuesday. Enjoy. X


----------



## Treacle Toes (Nov 7, 2013)

inva said:


> The Anon_Central account on twitter with its almost 170,000 followers churns out Holocaust denial material, misogyny, racism, etc. I wouldn't want to associate myself with these people, personally.



I absolutely agree with you in not associating with these kinds of people. However, the problem is...who are these people? Who runs the Anon_Central twitter account? Do you really believe there is an Anon Central anything? I don't. I don't think the 4-channers are in control of this stuff at all. I don't think that many of the people who attended this action or others have anything to do with the past exploits of 'anonymous' either. 

The likelihood is that the person running the AC twitter account, just like many of the twitter/facebook accounts that claim be be Anon, are just randoms, not necessarily a part of some centralised/organised thing.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 7, 2013)

Well, isn't that a problem in itself, when you cannot disassociate yourself or your activity from a racist holocaust denying freak who is now publicly the social media leader for what's supposed to be your common cause?


----------



## TopCat (Nov 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Well, isn't that a problem in itself, when you cannot disassociate yourself or your activity from a racist holocaust denying freak who is now publicly the social media leader for what's supposed to be your common cause?


It's not a problem that will be solved by people desisting from taking action in itself. 

I am surprised at the amount of flak being dished out to the Anon supporters for their action on Tuesday. Getting 3000 quite young people, many of whom have no previous involvement in political dissent out on the streets is an excellent result in itself. The fact they attacked Buckingham Palace is applaudable.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 7, 2013)

TopCat said:


> It's not a problem that will be solved by people desisting from taking action in itself.
> 
> I am surprised at the amount of flak being dished out to the Anon supporters for their action on Tuesday. Getting 3000 quite young people, many of whom have no previous involvement in political dissent out on the streets is an excellent result in itself. The fact they attacked Buckingham Palace is applaudable.


we know where the class war bonfire & fireworks should be next year

top marks for their rocket attack on the palace


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 7, 2013)

inva said:


> The Anon_Central account on twitter with its almost 170,000 followers churns out Holocaust denial material, misogyny, racism, etc. I wouldn't want to associate myself with these people, personally.


what, with any of those 170,000 people?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 7, 2013)

TopCat said:


> It's not a problem that will be solved by people desisting from taking action in itself.
> 
> I am surprised at the amount of flak being dished out to the Anon supporters for their action on Tuesday. Getting 3000 quite young people, many of whom have no previous involvement in political dissent out on the streets is an excellent result in itself. The fact they attacked Buckingham Palace is applaudable.


It's a problem that's not even not been recognised, or more accurately, that has been facilitated by this floppy_ hey it could be anyone _nonsense - no one can definitively disassociate from it. And my point was nothing at all to do with whether people went out the other night or not. That's not even the same issue. However, it is a way to ignore what is a real issue - that for many of the people who do sympathise with anon, they are doing so on the basis of this racist poison. And to challenge this is to risk meeting with - as people did above the other day - claims that that to do so is to argue against anyone doing anything ever and just watching the telly.I think the other night was great, i think continuing to do stuff like that without challenging the rest of it is a cop-out. Why are people scared to talk politics to people who desperately want to talk some sort of politics?


----------



## killer b (Nov 7, 2013)

this whole 'left wingers look for traitors' thing is a bit of a millstone. it seems to mean any criticism needs to be heavily caveated before it can be allowed. fucking ridiculous.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 7, 2013)

...and to ignore the historical and political existence of...traitors.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 7, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> we know where the class war bonfire & fireworks should be next year
> 
> top marks for their rocket attack on the palace


Well they put us to shame given they thought big and did it outside Buckingham Palace. The biggest we thought at the time was London Fields.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 7, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Many of the people who do sympathise with anon, they are doing so on the basis of this racist poison.



Any evidence that any of the people who attended had racist views or sympathies? I would wager that had any such sentiment been expressed, confrontation (that would only end one way) would occur quite quickly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 7, 2013)

killer b said:


> this whole 'left wingers look for traitors' thing is a bit of a millstone. it seems to mean any criticism needs to be heavily caveated before it can be allowed. fucking ridiculous.


no, RIGHT wingers look for traitors - the enemy within and so forth


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 7, 2013)

TopCat said:


> Any evidence that any of the people who attended had racist views or sympathies? I would wager that had any such sentiment been expressed, confrontation (that would only end one way) would occur quite quickly.


As i said, i wasn't talking about the other night. I was talking about how racists have already managed to insert themselves as the official voice of anon and that the _oh anyone can do anything in their name_ thing is utterly powerless to do anything about it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 7, 2013)

a new name may yet emerge - perhaps a simple 'V'


----------



## killer b (Nov 7, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> no, RIGHT wingers look for traitors - the enemy within and so forth


yeah, i was talking about what brand said:



> I felt pretty embarrassed that my involvement was being questioned, in a manner that is all too common on the left. It’s been said that: “The right seeks converts and the left seeks traitors.” This moral superiority that is peculiar to the left is a great impediment to momentum. It is also a right drag when you’re trying to enjoy a riot.


it's nonsense of course - everyone seeks traitors. or they should do anyway.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 7, 2013)

killer b said:


> yeah, i was talking about what brand said:
> 
> it's nonsense of course - everyone seeks traitors. or they should do anyway.


someone being a traitor presupposes they at one point believed in something, which none of the undercovers did.


----------



## emanymton (Nov 7, 2013)

killer b said:


> yeah, i was talking about what brand said:
> 
> it's nonsense of course - everyone seeks traitors. or they should do anyway.


Also the idea that the left doesn't seek converts, has he never heard of the SWP.


----------



## free spirit (Nov 7, 2013)

inva said:


> From what I remember they were obsessed with 9/11, the US Federal Reserve and Ron Paul, with much of their politics framed by anti-semitic conspiracies (some of the early media coverage Anonymous received, probably in 2007, was related to the 'Jews Did 9/11' website for example). I would guess that has changed by now to some extent, but by how much? Swapped Ron Paul and Rothbard for Max Keiser and Assange? As far as the Tea Party goes, I'd agree that they're against it, but they weren't to begin with when I think I'm right in saying it was started by the Austrian School/Ron Paul crowd who were then rapidly sidelined for the most part.
> 
> I can't claim to know much about what they've done since probably late 2008 or early 2009, so it may be that they are now very different but that would have to be have been quite a dramatic transformation.
> 
> ...


I'd think that Shippou-Sensei would know more about the 4chan stuff, I only really started taking notice around the scientology stuff, beyond a few quick checks on some of the worst 4 chan antics.

I'd say they really got serious around scientology as I think these were the first times they actually organised anything offline, real world protests tend to start to focus the mind a bit more and shake out some of the trash - probably a fair few who didn't agree with that stuff just fell by the way side around that time.

Maybe there's some dodgy tweets in there, but I've gone back through 4 months tweets and not found anything particularly bad. Either way, that's just one person's account albeit that they're acting as a spokesperson.

tbh I've not paid much attention since the days of the DDOS attacks in support of wikileaks when the US government were shutting down their funding streams, and a bit again around the Arab spring ops.


----------



## kenny g (Nov 7, 2013)

free spirit said:


> I'd think that Shippou-Sensei would know more about the 4chan stuff, I only really started taking notice around the scientology stuff, beyond a few quick checks on some of the worst 4 chan antics.
> 
> I'd say they really got serious around scientology as I think these were the first times they actually organised anything offline, real world protests tend to start to focus the mind a bit more and shake out some of the trash - probably a fair few who didn't agree with that stuff just fell by the way side around that time.
> 
> ...



From my vague memories of wasted times on the net there was a big objection to "moral fags" related to the Scientology project back in 2008. In the end the moral fags appear to have won the day. The objectors believed that Anonymous should be in effect Nihilists, feared stalwarks of pure freedom. There was back in 2008 quite a lot of the anonymous aspect being used as a cover by sick paedo scum. I suspect that by sheer force of numbers this has become very much a minority.


----------



## free spirit (Nov 7, 2013)

kenny g said:


> From my vague memories of wasted times on the net there was a big objection to "moral fags" related to the Scientology project back in 2008. In the end the moral fags appear to have won the day. The objectors believed that Anonymous should be in effect Nihilists, feared stalwarks of pure freedom. There was back in 2008 quite a lot of the anonymous aspect being used as a cover by sick paedo scum. I suspect that by sheer force of numbers this has become very much a minority.


yeah, that rings true.


----------



## inva (Nov 7, 2013)

free spirit said:


> I'd think that Shippou-Sensei would know more about the 4chan stuff, I only really started taking notice around the scientology stuff, beyond a few quick checks on some of the worst 4 chan antics.
> 
> I'd say they really got serious around scientology as I think these were the first times they actually organised anything offline, real world protests tend to start to focus the mind a bit more and shake out some of the trash - probably a fair few who didn't agree with that stuff just fell by the way side around that time.
> 
> ...


To be honest I just don't know enough of what happened amongst the anonymous lot after around the time of the Scientology protests to comment on that. I think basically butchersapron's post here is one I'd agree with and probably puts my view across better than I could.

As far as the particular twitter account I mentioned goes, six hours ago Anon_Central tweeted "Never forget, jews did 9/11". From yesterday there's a tweet referring to the 'Holohoax'. There's plenty more. Maybe there's another account with a similar name as I didn't link to the one I was talking about. It is just one account, true, although I'd be willing to bet there's a lot more of them if I could be bothered to look. How many would it take to be a problem?


----------



## free spirit (Nov 7, 2013)

ah right, I was looking at anoncentral

tbh I'd suspect that a fair number of the active anonymous internet hactivists of 2-3 years ago will no longer be on twitter or anywhere like it either because they're in prison, or rightly worried about the potential for ending up there.

Fuck knows who this guy is.


----------



## free spirit (Nov 8, 2013)

That anon_central account does link to an interesting (ish) allegation about the organisers of the Washington protest showing them at best to be hopelessly naive, at worst acting as a trap.

http://pastebin.com/3K5Y67Us

Probably just hopelessly naive.


https://twitter.com/AnonyOps with 272,000 followers and IIRC having been used since at least the first wikileaks protests has no meantion of Jews in the last few months that I can see, as a bit of a counter point to the anon_central account (which also announces the 'anonymous is dead' so probably isn't that good a guide to it now).


----------

