# Is it me or is Liam Fox ....



## Kaka Tim (Oct 8, 2011)

A happily married man?







( Some lavender yesterday)


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 8, 2011)

Cameron has just spoken of his "full confidence" in Liam Fox. It was the headline news item on R4 2:00 o'clock.

So that is the end of that career.


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## xenon (Oct 8, 2011)

Every time they mention Dr Fox on the news, I keep thinking of the DJ Neil Fox and wonder. WTF is he doing in government. Then I remember who it is... And think WTF is he doing in government.


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## QueenOfGoths (Oct 8, 2011)

xenon said:


> Every time they mention Dr Fox on the news, I keep thinking of the DJ Neil Fox and wonder. WTF is he doing in government. Then I remember who it is... And think WTF is he doing in government.


Me too!

Tbh I don't really care whether he is a happily married man or not but I do think he's a crook.


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## damnhippie (Oct 8, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Tbh I don't really care whether he is a happily married man or not but I do think he's a crook.



agreed. hopefully the full extent of the dirt will become evident and people remember Cameron's "full confidence"...


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 8, 2011)

They've been wanting to get rid of Fox for a loonnnnng time.


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## Belushi (Oct 8, 2011)

You mean is he a close personal friend of the Duke of Kent as my Nan would say?


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## Will2403 (Oct 8, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> They've been wanting to get rid of Fox for a loonnnnng time.



why didn't they just not hire him in the first place?


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## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

Will2403 said:


> why didn't they just not hire him in the first place?


Hire who?


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 8, 2011)

So Liam Fox has a close 'friend' travelling with him and claiming falsely on a business card to be an advisor. The news media have picked up on this. On the surface the problem is that government money is being spent on or by this man who is not a government employee. However is there the unspoken possibility of a sexual scandal? Mind that elephant!

For me it is the money issue that is important. I don't care if Liam Fox has friends of all stripes. That is his private life.


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## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> So Liam Fox has a close 'friend' travelling with him and claiming falsely on a business card to be an advisor. The news media have picked up on this. On the surface the problem is that government money is being spent on or by this man who is not a government employee. However is there the unspoken possibility of a sexual scandal? Mind that elephant!
> 
> For me it is the money issue that is important. I don't care if Liam Fox has friends of all stripes. That is his private life.


Running a fake charity out of Fox's office in Parliament you mean?


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## Belushi (Oct 8, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> For me it is the money issue that is important. I don't care if Liam Fox has friends of all stripes. That is his private life.



I agree about the money being the important issue here, though for me the issue of his private life depends on his voting record.


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## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

...or the touting for business on the back of his position by false credentials? I wonder who is scouring through Fox's recorded meetings right now.


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## butchersapron (Oct 8, 2011)

His cunts stick their noses in our private lifes - they actually send people to jail for not declaring partners. Fuck him.


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## Greebo (Oct 8, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> His cunts stick their noses in our private lifes - they actually send people to jail for not declaring partners. Fuck him.


^^^This.


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## Greebo (Oct 8, 2011)

Belushi said:


> You mean is he a close personal friend of the Duke of Kent as my Nan would say?


He could sell his backside to anyone who'll have it, or go to a different gay nightclub every day of the week, I wouldn't care.

What I object to is that he's probably crooked.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 8, 2011)

Will2403 said:


> why didn't they just not hire him in the first place?



He represents a certain type of right-wing, socially conservative Tory. And that certain type of right-wing Tory likes to see one of 'theirs' in government. Defence secretary is often the favoured place to put such people - no influence on economic or social policy, but lots of opportunities for traditional right-wing tory tub-thumping.

Among other things, prime ministers have to keep their party on-side. The likes of Fox are a counterweight to the lib-dems being in government. Notice, though, that neither Fox nor the libdems are given positions where they can influence the general direction of the government.


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## Belushi (Oct 8, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He represents a certain type of right-wing, socially conservative Tory. And that certain type of right-wing Tory likes to see one of 'theirs' in government. Defence secretary is often the favoured place to put such people - no influence on economic or social policy, but lots of opportunities for traditional right-wing tory tub-thumping.



The entire dept is staffed by right wing loons according to my stepdad (Treasury).


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 8, 2011)

Greebo said:


> He could sell his backside to anyone who'll have it, or go to a different gay nightclub every day of the week, I wouldn't care.



His wife might.

And - in terms of corruption - there is a difference between helping out a friend and a sexual partner. Like securing a plum job with fancy benefits for your mistress. Or equivalent.


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## dylanredefined (Oct 8, 2011)

I'd doubt he is a threat to national security well anymore than the rest of the MOD.Having dealt with some of the crap they have foisted on us over the years and know people who sell stuff to the mod.What ever MOD does national security is a low priority.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 8, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> His wife might.
> 
> And - in terms of corruption - there is a difference between helping out a friend and a sexual partner. Like securing a plum job with fancy benefits for your mistress. Or equivalent.



In this case, given his voting record, his private life is fair game. Here's his voting record on gay rights, for instance. Lots of votes against the smaller issues and conveniently found himself absent on all the bigger ones.

He is an archetypical 'family values, homophobic' right-wing tory.


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## Puddy_Tat (Oct 8, 2011)

Greebo said:


> He could sell his backside to anyone who'll have it, or go to a different gay nightclub every day of the week, I wouldn't care.
> 
> What I object to is that he's probably crooked.



hmm.

If a politician keeps his /her private life and politics separate, and doesn't moralise at other people about how they should live their lives, then I don't think it's a public matter what that politician does in the bedroom or wherever else s/he does it as long as they aren't breaking the law in doing it.

Which is why it was a bit of a non-story when the evening sub-standard, in its 2008 shit slinging campaign, revealed that Ken Livingstone had a number of kids with different partners.

If however they consistently wheel their wife / husband and kids out in front of the cameras to show what a "normal family wo/man" they are, and / or vote for repressive laws to be applied to others, or whittle on about "family values" and all that bollocks, then I believe it is a public matter if they are having an affair or some such.


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## little_legs (Oct 8, 2011)

“[I do] not want the gays flaunting it in front of me, which is what they would do”.

http://order-order.com/2011/10/07/friday-caption-contest-liam-fox-edition/


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## JHE (Oct 8, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> And - in terms of corruption - there is a difference between helping out a friend and a sexual partner.



No, I don't think there is.  Corruptly helping a friend or a lover or a relative is all the same morally: it's very easy to understand and has often been done, but it's wrong.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 8, 2011)

He has never, ever voted in favour of any kind of gay right. His voting record is consistent with that of someone who thinks it was a mistake legalising gay sex at all, and calculatedly so. He votes against where he thinks it is safe to do so, and absents himself where he thinks it isn't.

Grade A+++ cunt.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 8, 2011)

little_legs said:


> “[I do] not want the gays flaunting it in front of me, which is what they would do”.
> 
> http://order-order.com/2011/10/07/friday-caption-contest-liam-fox-edition/



Union Jack cufflinks. 

What a twat.


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## where to (Oct 8, 2011)

> Liam Fox, Conservative shadow defence secretary, displayed homophobic credentials whilst at university, an investigation by the _Sunday Herald_ has found.
> The Tory MP, who stood against David Cameron in the 2005 Conservative Party leadership content, resigned as a member of the University of Glasgow’s student council in protest at a gay and lesbian society being admitted to the Glasgow University Union (GUU).
> He apparently said at the time: “[I do] not want the gays flaunting it in front of me, which is what they would do”.
> His stance was echoed by the then union president, Vince Gallagher, who said:
> ...



meanwhile the motive for his regular jaunts to Sri Lanka is being questioned in some quarters.


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## Gingerman (Oct 8, 2011)

http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2007/04/15/liam-the-liar/
Once "linked" to Natalie Imbruglia....wtf


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## SaskiaJayne (Oct 8, 2011)

where to said:


> meanwhile the motive for his regular jaunts to Sri Lanka is being questioned in some quarters.


So were Mathew Kelly's but they were all innocent. Its normal in Sri Lanka to employ teenage 'houseboys', so nothing sinister at all, oh no!....


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## weltweit (Oct 8, 2011)

Potentially a very sordid affair ...


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 8, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Union Jack cufflinks.
> 
> What a twat.


Look more closely; they are St Georges flag cufflinks. Perhaps he is a member of EDL.


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 8, 2011)

Looks like he's fucked anyway.

My reading is that the media know more then they are telling. Guardian seems to have caught him out bullshitting - http://www.guardian.co.uk/

48 hours until the resignation over 'mistake' ?


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## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Look more closely; they are St Georges flag cufflinks. Perhaps he is a member of EDL.


they're clearly union flag cufflinks. you do know what a st george's cross looks like? his cufflinks don't look like that, do they?


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## Gingerman (Oct 8, 2011)

http://www.anorak.co.uk/294488/poli...0-maggie-thatcher-is-forever-in-the-80s.html/
Caption contest anyone ?


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 8, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> they're clearly union flag cufflinks. you do know what a st george's cross looks like? his cufflinks don't look like that, do they?


I concede that. After reading your post I had a look at my screen through a looking glass to see the corner bits though. It just looks like a red cross on a white background to the naked eye.


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## magneze (Oct 8, 2011)

I say this not as an insult, but as sage advice. Please see an optician.


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## agricola (Oct 8, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Looks like he's fucked anyway.
> 
> My reading is that the media know more then they are telling. Guardian seems to have caught him out bullshitting - http://www.guardian.co.uk/
> 
> 48 hours until the resignation over 'mistake' ?



48 hours if he is lucky, he will probably be gone by Monday morning - what at the start looked like a Hague-style "close friend as companion" offence now looks increasingly like one of outright corruption, aggravated of course by some extremely shite attempts at telling fibs to cover it up.


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 9, 2011)

One would have to have a heart of stone not to laugh.


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## Poo Flakes (Oct 9, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> In this case, given his voting record, his private life is fair game. Here's his voting record on gay rights, for instance. Lots of votes against the smaller issues and conveniently found himself absent on all the bigger ones.
> 
> He is an archetypical 'family values, homophobic' right-wing tory.



I hope it is a homosexual scandal...

http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-7069.html/


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## shagnasty (Oct 9, 2011)

He said his impending marrriage proved that he is not gay ,experience has taught that being married doesn't mean a thing ,and that many gay poltician are anti-gay


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## Combustible (Oct 9, 2011)

Poo Flakes said:


> I hope it is a homosexual scandal...
> 
> http://www.pinknews.co.uk/news/articles/2005-7069.html/



It could give a new interpretation to his words



> [I do] not want the gays flaunting it in front of me, which is what they would do


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 9, 2011)

If Liam Fox is guilty of petty corruption he could well be sacked or resign first.

If he is seriously corrupt he will resign or be sacked and be brought back into government after a year or so.


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## Fedayn (Oct 9, 2011)

Belushi said:


> The entire dept is staffed by right wing loons according to my stepdad (Treasury).



The MoD has one of, if not the lowest TU memberships of any civil service department, last figures I saw put union density in the MoD at 25%. It might well reflect what your step-da is saying.


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## Fedayn (Oct 9, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He has never, ever voted in favour of any kind of gay right. His voting record is consistent with that of someone who thinks it was a mistake legalising gay sex at all, and calculatedly so. He votes against where he thinks it is safe to do so, and absents himself where he thinks it isn't.
> 
> Grade A+++ cunt.



Do we know he's gay? Any evidence for this? Who cares who he fucks, it's the fact he's fucking us over that's the point.


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## Pickman's model (Oct 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Do we know he's gay? Any evidence for this? Who cares who he fucks, it's the fact he's fucking us over that's the point.


it's another case of people having double standards, one lot for straight politicians and one lot for gay politicians.


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## joevsimp (Oct 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Do we know he's gay? Any evidence for this? Who cares who he fucks, it's the fact he's fucking us over that's the point.



It's the right wing loons in the Tory party who care, we're just enjoying the prospect of another closet hypocrite getting his just deserts


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Do we know he's gay? Any evidence for this? Who cares who he fucks, it's the fact he's fucking us over that's the point.


He's either a homophobic straight cunt or he's a hypocritical gay cunt hiding his sexuality behind an exaggerated show of prejudice. Either way he's a cunt.


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## bemused (Oct 9, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He's either a homophobic straight cunt or he's a hypocritical gay cunt hiding his sexuality behind an exaggerated show of prejudice. Either way he's a cunt.



Not sure what it is about politicians but a fair few of them seem to go 'temporarily gay' Mark Oaten etc. I don't care who he is fucking but he does seem to be trying to give his mate a leg up off the back of his position. Also I just don't like him, not a fan of either of the big 3 parties but he seems a rather nasty piece of work.


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## Poo Flakes (Oct 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Do we know he's gay? Any evidence for this? Who cares who he fucks, it's the fact he's fucking us over that's the point.



Building a career, from a student who opposed homosexual members of the Union, to the chairman of a party which not only instituted section 28 but expelled members who opposed it, and then throwing a tantrum which meant its repeal was delayed by around three years.  Although it clearly does not matter who he, or anyone, fucks, it clearly does to people like Liam Fox.

I doubt this is the case, the whole thing just smells of good old-fashioned corruption.  Shame, but still pretty funny.


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 9, 2011)

I think it is relevant wether werrity is fox's lover or not.

It would suggest a more intimate relationship then a 'friend' - a minister whose lover is given high level access and attends meetings, without being an actual employee of the ministry is even more dodgey then if that person is a mere friend surely?

Then you have his homophobic voting record and utterances on top of that.

Thirdly - hes a fucking tory - so fuck him. If his sexuality casues shit with the tory faithful - then he shouldn't have joined the party of cunts in the first place.


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## JHE (Oct 9, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> I think it is relevant wether werrity is fox's lover or not.
> 
> It would suggest a more intimate relationship then a 'friend' - a minister whose lover is given high level access and attends meetings, without being an actual employee of the ministry is even more dodgey then if that person is a mere friend surely?



Why is corruptly helping a friend (or relative) any less bad than corruptly helping a lover?


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## Fedayn (Oct 9, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> I think it is relevant wether werrity is fox's lover or not.
> 
> It would suggest a more intimate relationship then a 'friend' - a minister whose lover is given high level access and attends meetings, without being an actual employee of the ministry is even more dodgey then if that person is a mere friend surely?
> 
> ...



Have we any evidence it's his lover? Is it worse that his alleged lover is doing what he is as opposed to it just being a pal. I have no sympathy for Fox, he's a Tory cunt, but the issue is the rather obvious corruption and his allowing Werrity access, and the blatant corruption that has clearly followed, not that he might be shagging him aswell.


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 9, 2011)

Fedayn I hope you have run your last post past your lawyers. Liam Fox is a millionaire and if he starts sueing, his own lawyers will be using Google to find suitable subjects.


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## Fedayn (Oct 9, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Fedayn I hope you have run your last post past your lawyers. Liam Fox is a millionaire and if he starts sueing, his own lawyers will be using Google to find suitable subjects.



He'll get fuck all by suing me.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 9, 2011)

Liam Fox is a corrupt, morally bankrupt cunt.

There you go, he can sue me too.


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 9, 2011)

I have just watched the YouTube video of Liam Fox being interviewed on BBC Breakfast. He serially refused to answer the question as to whether he knew that Werrity was carrying business cards claiming that he was an advisor to Fox. What a sneaky  and evasive interview subject he seems to be. I noticed that at first he seemed to be controlling his blink rate, but later it didn't work so well. Politicians these days are so well trained in body language awareness.


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## London_Calling (Oct 9, 2011)

I remember the last Urban gay witchhunt, several pages of increasing bizarre posts about the obv. GAY (!!1!) William Hague and his male assistant - obv. GAY (!!1!) because they shared hotel rooms. Another fine Urban moment:

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-act-over-false-claims-of-gay-affairs.258543/


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## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

Do you think the u75 gays are hunting him because of their genes or is it by choice?


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 9, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> I remember the last Urban gay witchhunt, several pages of increasing bizarre posts about the obv. GAY (!!1!) William Hague and his male assistant - obv. GAY (!!1!) because they shared hotel rooms. Another fine Urban moment:
> 
> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-act-over-false-claims-of-gay-affairs.258543/


This is not a gay witchhunt. It is about a breach of security. Werrity may just be a close friend of Fox, that is not a problem. However Werrity was using a business card with the Wesminster portcullis symbol on it and the words 'Advisor to Liam Fox' printed thereon. Werrity is not employed by the MOD and does not have security clearance,  yet was attending meetings with potential customers for military supplies. It is about commercial corruption not sexual preference.


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## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

And we hate gays - as london_calling correctly identified.


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## London_Calling (Oct 9, 2011)

The royal 'we' from the Great Gatekeeper of Urban. LOL


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## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

Another LOL from the in-depth commentator. Well done.


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## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> The royal 'we' from the Great Gatekeeper of Urban. LOL



To quote from another thread:



			
				butchersapron said:
			
		

> About time for London_calling to make an ill-informed post he's unable to back up, followed up by LOL and nothing else isn't it?



Keep us guessing L_C


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 9, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> I remember the last Urban gay witchhunt, several pages of increasing bizarre posts about the obv. GAY (!!1!) William Hague and his male assistant - obv. GAY (!!1!) because they shared hotel rooms. Another fine Urban moment:
> 
> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...-act-over-false-claims-of-gay-affairs.258543/



This isn't a witchhunt. I originally dug up his voting record just to illustrate the kind of tory Liam Fox is, because he is a very particular kind of tory. And I was trying to explain why that kind of tory gets given the position of defence secretary despite the fact that Cameron is trying to portray his party as something other than what Fox stands for (truth is that Fox's views are mainstream among the tory faithful, hence Cameron's dilemma). But it's lose-lose for Fox - homophobe or hypocritical lying cunt. Those are the only two options available.

But I won't make any bones about this. It would delight me if it were shown that Fox was having an affair with this man. It would drive Fox out of politics and maybe ruin his family life. Normally I would not cheer such a thing, but given the way he has consistently tried to ruin the lives of others, this time I would.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 9, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> And we hate gays - as london_calling correctly identified.



Fuck yeah, they're as bad as the fucking Yids, are poofs!


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## Poo Flakes (Oct 9, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I have just watched the YouTube video of Liam Fox being interviewed on BBC Breakfast. He serially refused to answer the question as to whether he knew that Werrity was carrying business cards claiming that he was an advisor to Fox. What a sneaky and evasive interview subject he seems to be. I noticed that at first he seemed to be controlling his blink rate, but later it didn't work so well. Politicians these days are so well trained in body language awareness.



A bit too late for old Foxy.  Mr Fox claimed Wirrety had no access to foreign dignatories.  Sri Linka release video showing Wittery meeting their president.

http://www.metro.co.uk/news/878015-...essure-amid-claims-he-lied-about-friends-role



Hocus Eye. said:


> This is not a gay witchhunt.



I do not think anyone here wants a _gay _witchunt.  We are just hoping that a career homophobe 'shared hotel rooms' with a public school chum, preferrably in one of the many theocracies buying our weapons.


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## London_Calling (Oct 9, 2011)

Right, and there is absolutely no suggestion of wanting to use someone's sexuality against them - as per Hague.


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## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

That's right cato.


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## QueenOfGoths (Oct 9, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I have just watched the YouTube video of Liam Fox being interviewed on BBC Breakfast. He serially refused to answer the question as to whether he knew that Werrity was carrying business cards claiming that he was an advisor to Fox. What a sneaky and evasive interview subject he seems to be. I noticed that at first he seemed to be controlling his blink rate, but later it didn't work so well. Politicians these days are so well trained in body language awareness.


Yeah I saw that too - his evasiveness - well less evasive and more running to the nearest basement locking all the doors behind his putting his hands over his ears and saying "I can't hear you. MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM" - didn't exactly help him look innocent...good!!


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## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

Listen up gay-haters, he's got a statement coming out quite soon. Onto the next gay.


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## London_Calling (Oct 9, 2011)

You're just so... butch.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 9, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Right, and there is absolutely no suggestion of wanting to use someone's sexuality against them - as per Hague.



I can't speak for anyone else, but I would want to use his hypocrisy against him. This isn't like the Simon Hughes campaign against Peter Tatchell. Or at least it is - with Fox in the role of Hughes.

Also, you'll have to forgive me if I smile whenever a well-known homophobe is revealed to be gay, because smile I will.


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## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

We got Hari and Laws too.


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## frogwoman (Oct 9, 2011)

i dont think this is a witchunt. he voted against gay rights. time and time again. if he was doing this to cover his own sexuality this makes him a cowardly bastard, if he's just a homophobic (and corrupt) twat he's still a twat.


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## Jeff Robinson (Oct 9, 2011)

Good to know that the evil shithead is currently having a really miserable time. Hope he's ultra stressed out, sweating, unable to sleep and all that stuff.


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## Combustible (Oct 9, 2011)

It looks like Cameron may have played this quite shrewdly.  He's publically kept his distance, demanded a quick report so he can claim to have acted decisively and doesn't have to face a week of questions about him.  The only people pissed off would be the Tory right but Cameron must know that despite their wailing they are mostly impotent and won't do anything about it.


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## Poo Flakes (Oct 9, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Right, and there is absolutely no suggestion of wanting to use someone's sexuality against them - as per Hague.



Sure there is, if you strip away all context.  Osborne can consume as much cocaine as he wants, pay whomever he wishes to spend time with him, and then use all manner of underhand tactics to silence any reporting of it.  Not sure people that find this picture funny are the types of people who see drug dealers and prostitutes as scum of the earth.


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## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

Silk cut and champagne. Disgusting.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2011)

Looks like he's a gonna, just got word that one of his staff was in the office this weekend clearing out their desk...


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## taffboy gwyrdd (Oct 9, 2011)

Am I alone in finding it curious that Labour are so tenacious about dealing with this issue, but managed to let Mandellson back into government twice, including as business secretary to spoon out scores of billions in bankers bailouts in late 2008?

Then there's that war crimes chappie of theirs who ended up with JP Morgan. No call for investigation there.

Fucking nauseating.


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## KeeperofDragons (Oct 9, 2011)

Just heard his statement - a blurring apparently not corruction 

Let the fox hunt continue

KoD


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## big eejit (Oct 9, 2011)

Saw a twitter recommending that Dr Fox saves the time and expense of an inquiry into why he took his friend on official government visits by just remembering.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 9, 2011)

He'll do another one along the lines of 'Even though I did nothing wrong, this false allegation is stopping me from doing my job, it's affecting the government and for that reason I stand down'...etc...


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## big eejit (Oct 9, 2011)

One of those 'napologies' - I'm sorry if the way that all this looks has made things difficult for the prime minister. No admission of actually having done anything wrong. Dishonourable basterds.


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## claphamboy (Oct 9, 2011)

big eejit said:


> Saw a twitter recommending that Dr Fox saves the time and expense of an inquiry into why he took his friend on official government visits by just remembering.







Kid_Eternity said:


> He'll do another one along the lines of 'Even though I did nothing wrong, this false allegation is stopping me from doing my job, it's affecting the government and for that reason I stand down'...etc...



Aye, it'll be a case of disco Dave telling him in the morning to fuck off, before he has to kick his sorry arse out.


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## Brixton Hatter (Oct 9, 2011)

"i apologise for allowing the _impression of wrongdoing_..."

dick


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## killer b (Oct 9, 2011)

he's toast. the question is, what time tomorrow morning?


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## little_legs (Oct 9, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> Politicians these days are so well trained in body language awareness.



you don't say






(.gif courtesy http://themanycumfacesofgeorgeosborne.tumblr.com/)


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## claphamboy (Oct 9, 2011)

He's crapping himself, isn't he?

Squeeze it out, George.


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## London_Calling (Oct 9, 2011)

I thought he'd just had another decent hit off the gear on the table.


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## eoin_k (Oct 9, 2011)

Drug users are fair game then?


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 9, 2011)

little_legs said:


> you don't say
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That is hilarious


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## Maggot (Oct 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Do we know he's gay? Any evidence for this?


 I haven't seen any. Pure speculation AFAIK.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

That's what people do when they speculate. Have you seen anyone claiming to have facts?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

About the gayness i mean


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Do we know he's gay? Any evidence for this? Who cares who he fucks, it's the fact he's fucking us over that's the point.


Think how delicious it would be if the homophobic cunt was a player of the pink oboe though


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 9, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Good to know that the evil shithead is currently having a really miserable time. Hope he's ultra stressed out, sweating, unable to sleep and all that stuff.


----------



## Fedayn (Oct 9, 2011)

Maggot said:


> I haven't seen any. Pure speculation AFAIK.



It is, but it's just so folk can hurl homophobic abuse at him of course....


----------



## Poo Flakes (Oct 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> It is, but it's just so folk can hurl homophobic abuse at him of course....



Maybe in the Conservative Party, its use for anyone else is to drown out whatever the cunt has to say about 'family values' with a big picture of his piece on the side. A bit like when Boris talks about punishing criminals, the first thought in rational people's minds is how much time did he do for the whole Darius Guppy saga.

Doesn't look like Fox is gone though. An apology at this stage probably means he had a word with Dave.


----------



## Fedayn (Oct 9, 2011)

Poo Flakes said:


> Maybe in the Conservative Party, its use for anyone else is to drown out whatever the cunt has to say about 'family values' with a big picture of his piece on the side.



You don't get sarcasm then?


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 9, 2011)

Poo Flakes said:


> Doesn't look like Fox is gone though. *An apology at this stage probably means he had a word with Dave*.



Not sure that's going to be enough to save him, myself. Fox not Dave obvs.


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 9, 2011)

Who says Fox hunting is wrong now


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

Dead man swimming

Revealed: how lobbyists were paid to set up meeting with Liam Fox 



> Political lobbyists were paid thousands of pounds to help a Dubai-based businessman arrange a secretive meeting with Liam Fox, which the defence secretary claims came about only after a chance meeting in a restaurant.


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## big eejit (Oct 9, 2011)

"Political lobbyists were paid thousands of pounds to help a Dubai-based businessman arrange a secretive meeting with Liam Fox, which the defence secretary claims came about only after a chance meeting in a restaurant.

Invoices seen by the Guardian show that Harvey Boulter, the private equity boss at the heart of the growing controversy engulfing Fox, was paying £10,000 a month to lobbyists for help that included brokering the meeting with Fox through Adam Werritty, who claimed to be an "adviser to the Rt Hon Dr Fox MP".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/09/liam-fox-meeting-lobbyists-werritty-boulter

You hang on in there Dr Fox, drag this sleaze out for a week at least before you do the 'decent' thing. Same old Tories.


----------



## big eejit (Oct 9, 2011)

"Fox used his expenses to pay his best man" says the Torygraph.

Doh, he's not going to last the week is he.

http://twitpic.com/6xuz2k


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 9, 2011)

big eejit said:


> "Fox used his expenses to pay his best man" says the Torygraph.
> 
> Doh, he's not going to last the week is he.
> 
> http://twitpic.com/6xuz2k


_We must stop abortion becoming a human right says queen's cousin_. On the front page.


----------



## joustmaster (Oct 9, 2011)

The best bit was when Chris moyles got him to put a nail through a crabs back.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 9, 2011)

joustmaster said:


> The best bit was when Chris moyles got him to put a nail through a crabs back.



Sorry, but that's a load of noncesense.


----------



## agricola (Oct 9, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Dead man swimming
> 
> Revealed: how lobbyists were paid to set up meeting with Liam Fox



The sickening thing about this of course is that it is exactly these kinds of cosy deals between ministers, lobbyists and defence firms that have led to the MoD's budget being fucked - (edit) and of course led to service personnel being sacked once they get back from Afganistan, RAF pilots being sacked when they are days away from finishing training, substandard equipment being procured, years late, and at astronomically high prices, and the rest.

Fox should be sacked at once.


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## Gingerman (Oct 9, 2011)

Noxy Foxy loving this,bout time this Gov had a juicy scandal dumped on it like a big pile of shit,they've had an easy ride up to now.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 9, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> It is, but it's just so folk can hurl homophobic abuse at him of course....



No it's not.

From my perspective (and while I don't make a point of mentioning it on every thread, it's no secret on there that i'm a gay man),  it's NOT about wanting to be homophobic towards any politician who gets 'outed'.

If a politician wishes to have a private life, then s/he's got every right to do so, and I don't think it's right to go peering through bedroom windows and revealing who they might be shagging or the gender of the person/s involved.  I don't think that "outing" public figures just for the sake of it on.

If however a politician has (and I have no idea about Liam Fox, but there have been some who do match this description) deliberately put their wife / husband / family into the public domain as part of their public persona, while doing other things in secret, then it's an issue of honesty and integrity.

Also,any politician who preaches "family values" and publicly speaks or votes against gay rights (which some studies have suggested encourages more homophobic violence among the general public) while "dabbling" themselves, then they damn well deserve outing as a hypocrite and a cunt.  Also outing them as gay is a side issue.


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## Fedayn (Oct 9, 2011)

Puddy_Tat said:


> No it's not.
> 
> From my perspective (and while I don't make a point of mentioning it on every thread, it's no secret on there that i'm a gay man), it's NOT about wanting to be homophobic towards any politician who gets 'outed'.
> 
> ...



FFS, I was being sarcastic, as apparently, according to london_calling, it's a witchhunt....


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## Puddy_Tat (Oct 10, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> FFS, I was being sarcastic, as apparently, according to london_calling, it's a witchhunt....



 at me.  It's been a long day.  I'm too tired to see the sarcasm pixels.

I'll leave it there in case anyone *does* think it's all a homophobic witch-hunt.  But I'll accept you don't.


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## Nylock (Oct 10, 2011)

It's a bout time the pungent whiff of scandal started to follow these smug, arrogant hypocrites about...


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## London_Calling (Oct 10, 2011)

Puddy_Tat said:


> at me. It's been a long day. I'm too tired to see the sarcasm pixels.
> 
> I'll leave it there in case anyone *does* think it's all a homophobic witch-hunt. But I'll accept you don't.


Phew! Thank God you're doing that else we'd all be lost.


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## weltweit (Oct 10, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15235982


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## butchersapron (Oct 10, 2011)

What are you confused about?


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## claphamboy (Oct 10, 2011)

weltweit said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-15235982





> Shadow Defence Secretary Jim Murphy said a weekend inquiry into years of allegations was not good enough.
> "If David Cameron tries to clear his cabinet colleague today then it's obvious that someone at number 10 has spent the weekend down at B&Q and buying enough paint to organise a whitewash."


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## editor (Oct 10, 2011)

This sleazy fuck has to go.


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## Santino (Oct 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What are you confused about?


----------



## weltweit (Oct 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What are you confused about?



I didn't mean to leave that smiley in there! 

But the article is a bit confusing, Fox admits to the appearance of fault or something ...


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## butchersapron (Oct 10, 2011)

Interesting - Jim Murphy, the skull faced shadow defence sec, has been giving the appearance of going in hard over this. It's just been reported by Mail political editor the that he took a 3 and half grand s day fact finding mission to Washington paid for by the Cellcrypt company at the centre of this. (register of members interests confirms this) They really do all piss in the same pot don't they?


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## London_Calling (Oct 10, 2011)

It would be very handy if this opened up Defence properly, not just in relation to advisors but at least so far as the incestuous relationship between the political class and BAE - in the defence industry it's endless.... makes NI and the Met look like a Parent-Teacher meeting.

As per the Liam Fox, I suppose quite a lot depends on what that going-down-the-pan 'paper The Guardian can get its hands on.


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## weltweit (Oct 10, 2011)

So Fox's mate apparently met with him 40 (fourty) times at the MOD......

That seems like a lot to me.


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## elbows (Oct 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Interesting - Jim Murphy, the skull faced shadow defence sec, has been giving the appearance of going in hard over this. It's just been reported by Mail political editor the that he took a 3 and half grand s day fact finding mission to Washington paid for by the Cellcrypt company at the centre of this. (register of members interests confirms this) They really do all piss in the same pot don't they?



Harvey Boulter certainly does. Bristol Uni, UBS Warburg Aerospace and Defence investment banking, advising the MoD how to 'spin out' DERA into QinetiQ and DSTL. Then being MD of the private equity fund vehicle that has Porton in its name and focusses on commercialised military tech. And I presume as a direct result of this role he he ends up on the board of many of the companies that are flogging the tech.

Its most amusing that Harveys hamfisted attempts to get the 3M case settled by suggesting that he was effectively speaking on behalf of the government, and that 3M CEO George Buckley's knighthood was in jeopardy, blew up in his face when 3M decided this was blackmail, and the email got published in court documents.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-...boulter-for-30-million-in-new-york-court.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/interactive/2011/oct/10/liam-fox-and-adam-werritty-links-liamfox

Gotta love that email. Especially the way he tries to pretend that the £30M+ means nothing to him or his investors, its just about MoD saving face, honest guv.



> We manage $700mn and many of our investors call $5mn a rounding error.



lol.


----------



## big eejit (Oct 10, 2011)

weltweit said:


> So Fox's mate apparently met with him 40 (fourty) times at the MOD......
> 
> That seems like a lot to me.



40 times in the last year, that's more times than I had sex with my wife!*

*this may not be true


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## Fedayn (Oct 10, 2011)

weltweit said:


> So Fox's mate apparently met with him 40 (fourty) times at the MOD......



Well 40 shags in 18 months isn't exactly alot.....


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## big eejit (Oct 10, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Well 40 shags in 18 months isn't exactly alot.....



You haven't seen my wife!*

*joke, dear, if you ever read this


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 10, 2011)

I watched the video of Liam Fox making his speech to the Commons. He was very relaxed and confident and smooth talked his way out of trouble, denying that any state secrets had been discussed in the presence of Werrity. For the moment at least he seems to have got away with it. I was a bit surprised that Cameron has already re-stated his support for Fox. These people are very tenacious in holding on to their privileges and positions of power.


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## Jeff Robinson (Oct 10, 2011)

Has anybody made a "fox in a hole" joke yet? Some hack must've come up with that one by now.


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## William of Walworth (Oct 10, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I watched the video of Liam Fox making his speech to the Commons. He was very relaxed and confident and smooth talked his way out of trouble, denying that any state secrets had been discussed in the presence of Werrity. For the moment at least he seems to have got away with it. I was a bit surprised that Cameron has already re-stated his support for Fox. These people are very tenacious in holding on to their privileges and positions of power.



That's how I saw the way he made that statement too, and I have to say I feel wrongfooted now, because I was guessing last night that he'd be out of office by the end of today (even) or at least be much closer to the sack than he appears to be at the moment 

Still, Cameron's still left himself some sacking room later on maybe ..... I spose that depends on how much the final CS report is a whitewash, or whether or not 'Sir Gus' is able to keep enough stuff out about Fox to save him ....


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## weltweit (Oct 10, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I watched the video of Liam Fox making his speech to the Commons. He was very relaxed and confident and smooth talked his way out of trouble, denying that any state secrets had been discussed in the presence of Werrity. For the moment at least he seems to have got away with it. I was a bit surprised that Cameron has already re-stated his support for Fox. These people are very tenacious in holding on to their privileges and positions of power.



I just watched it. So it seems he is saying 22 meetings at the MOD. He is slippery isn't he.


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## William of Walworth (Oct 10, 2011)

editor said:


> This sleazy fuck has to go.


 
Absolutely ...


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## elbows (Oct 10, 2011)

I find it easy to believe that this is at least as much about the 3M court case as anything else. In order to defend themselves against the blackmail accusations, the government may be leaving Harvey Boulter to take the fall, and he may be rather unhappy about this. Depending on what strategy the government and Harvey take in court, it could come down to Boulter vs Fox's words in court. If the government don't want Fox to be a serving minister when he gives evidence then they have an excellent pretext for getting rid of him. Or perhaps he has simply made enemies within the MoD. Or maybe he will survive, nice and messy whatever happens next.

A story from a few months back when the story was mostly about the 3M case and not so much about Liam's pal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2011/aug/07/liam-fox-porton-capital

By the end of August attention was already turning to Werritty, with the news that he was running a health consultancy company when Fox was shadow health secretary.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/aug/29/liam-fox-pressure-adam-werritty


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## elbows (Oct 10, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Interesting - Jim Murphy, the skull faced shadow defence sec, has been giving the appearance of going in hard over this. It's just been reported by Mail political editor the that he took a 3 and half grand s day fact finding mission to Washington paid for by the Cellcrypt company at the centre of this. (register of members interests confirms this) They really do all piss in the same pot don't they?



Or Murphy is really going in hard because he knows Harvey Boulter and Boulter could be waging a campaign against Fox, as per the musings in my last few posts.

Or Murphy is just playing party politics the way we would expect the party in opposition to do in this situation.


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## weltweit (Oct 10, 2011)

This 3m lawsuit seems pretty complicated.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> [repying to BA]Or Murphy is really going in hard because he knows Harvey Boulter and Boulter could be waging a campaign against Fox, as per the musings in my last few posts.
> 
> *Or Murphy is just playing party politics the way we would expect the party in opposition to do in this situation*.



Kind of what I'm thinking too, no doubt at all that Murphy is not Mr Clean or anything himself, but it is his job to have a go at his ruling party's opposite number (to state the bleeding obvious ...  ). For what limited amount that's worth etc.


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## William of Walworth (Oct 10, 2011)

weltweit said:


> This 3m lawsuit seems pretty complicated.



Looks likely to be a full on sleazefest!

Plenty of potential there to finish Fox off in the end, however little Cameron wants to sack him ...

</hopecasting  >


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## elbows (Oct 10, 2011)

Messy, but not that complicated to understand really.

Company & MoD sells MRSA detection tech to 3M, with a lot of the sale price linked to future sales of the product. 3M goes off the tech & winds things down. Original sellers aren't happy because they lose millions that were tied to future sales, so take 3M to court. Then Boulter tries to get it settled out of court by sending that email, 3M use it to counter-sue for blackmail, and then Boulter tries to sue them for libel.


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## Maurice Picarda (Oct 10, 2011)

I'm liking the Knox and Fox news agenda, and am looking forward to something breaking about six sick chicks with bricks and blocks.


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## weltweit (Oct 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> Messy, but not that complicated to understand really.
> 
> Company & MoD sells MRSA detection tech to 3M, with a lot of the sale price linked to future sales of the product. 3M goes off the tech & winds things down. Original sellers aren't happy because they lose millions that were tied to future sales, so take 3M to court. Then Boulter tries to get it settled out of court by sending that email, 3M use it to counter-sue for blackmail, and then Boulter tries to sue them for libel.



That is very concise, thanks elbows.


----------



## eoin_k (Oct 10, 2011)

Sky have just tweeted that the MOD have reported that Werritty in fact made 70 visits...  Looks like this is going to run.


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## Pinette (Oct 10, 2011)

Most politicians are crooks.  I think that about 3% of the whole pudding of our elected representatives are decent and honourable, but the rest of them are out for their own advancement. We have become a banana republic. I would say our bananas are represented by our positive involvement in trading weapons between warring countries and our blind-eye philosophy when it comes to the mayhem that then ensues. I am so sick to my stomach at the way this country is being run at the moment. The cynicism, the fact that we should all take on board these weak answers  when any transgression is seen to have occurred.  Jesus Christ. Sorry.


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## weltweit (Oct 10, 2011)

So in his statement to the house Fox said 22 meetings at the MOD, the radio was reporting 40 meetings and now the MOD is apparently reporting 70. Sommat smells fishy.


----------



## where to (Oct 10, 2011)

> cameron is playing a long game. fox is of the tory right and a potential future tory leader.
> cameron needs for the story to so engulf fox that there is no other option than for him to resign. it does seem that the story is going that way .
> better for cameron and his relationship with his own tory right, if fox is forced to resign, rather than cameron is forced to sack him.


from another website. near the mark imo.  informative too, as its further evidence that Cameron is more fearful of a right wing tory backlash than of Labour/ Miliband/ "the left"


----------



## weltweit (Oct 10, 2011)

... I disagree that Fox could be a leader - couldn't lead his way out of a paper bag!


----------



## where to (Oct 10, 2011)

agreed. other than that seems about right though.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Oct 10, 2011)

The sleezoid is fuct


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 10, 2011)

where to said:


> from another website. near the mark imo. informative too, as its further evidence that Cameron is more fearful of a right wing tory backlash than of Labour/ Miliband/ "the left"



Yep - Cameron is playing this pretty clever. Fox is a favourite of the tory right and was a leadership rival. Disco Dave doesn't want to look like its him playing the hangman - rather that Fox is given enought rope to hang himself and is so damaged that his political career is effectively over.

Parts of the Tory right are out to get cameron - and without fox they are weakened.


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## elbows (Oct 10, 2011)

The Times is running with a 'money riddle' angle since they reckon Werritty has only earn £20k in 4 years from his consultancy businesses. 'no visible means of financial support'

http://twitpic.com/6yha8k


----------



## elbows (Oct 10, 2011)

Hmm Im a bit confused about the Times 'money riddle' because the Guardian reported on Friday that between 2007 and 2010 Werritty earned over £90k as chief exec of the Atlantic Bridge 'charity'.

( http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/07/adam-werritty-charity-liam-fox )


----------



## Fedayn (Oct 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> Hmm Im a bit confused about the Times 'money riddle' because the Guardian reported on Friday that between 2007 and 2010 Werritty earned over £90k as chief exec of the Atlantic Bridge 'charity'.
> 
> ( http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/07/adam-werritty-charity-liam-fox )



Yes, but that's a seperate 'job' to his consultancy.


----------



## Sue (Oct 10, 2011)

So, he's toast but how long can he hang on? Two to three days maximum I reckon.


----------



## elbows (Oct 10, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Yes, but that's a seperate 'job' to his consultancy.



But the Times story is about whether he has any 'visible means of support', which would include income from anywhere.


----------



## agricola (Oct 10, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Yep - Cameron is playing this pretty clever. Fox is a favourite of the tory right and was a leadership rival. Disco Dave doesn't want to look like its him playing the hangman - rather that Fox is given enought rope to hang himself and is so damaged that his political career is effectively over.
> 
> Parts of the Tory right are out to get cameron - and without fox they are weakened.



I agree that Fox is being hung out to try by Dave, though it should also be pointed out that if Fox is demonstrably corrupt (which is certainly how the story is headed at the moment - with Werrity as an unofficial conduit to him) then he would be a complete fool to not hang him out to try. As has been said above, no doubt everyone else in this corrupt little world will be hanging him out to try as well for fear that their misdeeds (Qinetiq being by no means the least) will be exposed.

However it is a bit much to say that the Tory Right would be damaged by Fox being discredited - he isnt that important, and the reasons they are going after Cameron are nothing to do with Fox.


----------



## editor (Oct 10, 2011)

This slimy fucker oozing sleaze has GOT to go.


----------



## Fedayn (Oct 10, 2011)

elbows said:


> But the Times story is about whether he has any 'visible means of support', which would include income from anywhere.



True, his charity income might need more scrutiny...


----------



## agricola (Oct 10, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> True, his charity income might need more scrutiny...



Wasnt that already scrutinied out of existence?


----------



## Sue (Oct 10, 2011)

And in all of this, not much mention of his dealings with the Sri Lankan government who stand accused of war crimes.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/09/13/uk-srilanka-un-idUKTRE78C60N20110913


----------



## Fedayn (Oct 10, 2011)

agricola said:


> Wasnt that already scrutinied out of existence?



I think it was seen as less then rock solid.


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 11, 2011)

agricola said:


> Wasnt that already scrutinied out of existence?



Yeah, Atlantic Bridge was dissolved last moth, following a critical Charity Commission report last year questioning its charitable/political status and giving them 12 months to bring it in line with the rules.


----------



## big eejit (Oct 11, 2011)

This Telegraph article is full of coincidences. Reminds me of Muriel's Wedding:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...and-Adam-Werritty-an-unlikely-friendship.html


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 11, 2011)

big eejit said:


> This Telegraph article is full of coincidences. Reminds me of Muriel's Wedding:
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...and-Adam-Werritty-an-unlikely-friendship.html



The telegraph article is very good -

'By yet another coincidence....'
The more you look at it the more Fox and his sidekick comes out as corrupt as fuck. He got away with fiddling his expenses as well.

Will be amazed if he lasts till the end of the week.


----------



## Barking_Mad (Oct 11, 2011)

BBC Radio 5 fishing this morning with questions about "why he spends so much time with another man abroad".

"Isn't it a bit unusual?"


----------



## Dan U (Oct 11, 2011)

they should just read out some of the comments on that Telegraph article above.

no fishing needed their


----------



## junglevip (Oct 11, 2011)

The wiff of lavender has become a stench


----------



## Poo Flakes (Oct 11, 2011)

Good interview on Newsnight (available in iplayer).

Anyone know what "not dependent on any _transactional behaviour_ to maintain his income from these meetings" means?  The BBC suggest that this term has a specific legal definition.  I took a quick look on google, could not find anything.  This could be Liam Fox covering his erse for something more serious than just losing his position as a minister.


----------



## JimW (Oct 11, 2011)

My take was "transactional behaviour" is just a (deliberately obscurantist) euphemism for quid pro quo, you get me this meeting I do something in return etc. grubby exchange.


----------



## junglevip (Oct 11, 2011)

JimW said:


> My take was "transactional behaviour" is just a (deliberately obscurantist) euphemism for quid pro quo, you get me this meeting I do something in return etc. grubby exchange.



Rusty trombone in exchange for a Dirty Blunderbuss etc...


----------



## weltweit (Oct 11, 2011)

It seems Werrity appeared as if by magic on numerous of Fox's foreign trips. It begins to smell funny.


----------



## Poo Flakes (Oct 11, 2011)

JimW said:


> My take was "transactional behaviour" is just a (deliberately obscurantist) euphemism for quid pro quo, you get me this meeting I do something in return etc. grubby exchange.



Yup, basically euphimism for Werrity not offering a Bolivian reach around in exchange for a greasy Rodriguez.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 11, 2011)

The longer he leaves resigning the more damaged he will look.

If he goes now he can say -

 'I made a 'mistake' and apologised, yet - despite no wrong doing - the horrible media wont let this go so I will have to resign as its distracting from my imporant role' .

Which _might_ give him some room to come back into the government at some point in the future. His supporters will spin the yarn that it was beastly plot by his enemies to oust him etc.

If he tries to stick it out, the obvious dodgeyness of his and werritys arms dealing double act will get raked out into the open (not to mention what looks very much like a lavender marriage being exposed) and he will be fucked for good.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 11, 2011)

Cameron would probably prefer Fox inside the tent pissing out, than outside the tent pissing in (to quote President LBJ) plus he has the added Coalition issue of who to replace him with - and how not to piss off the right wing of his party - that said Fox is looking increasingly like he has to go - he has 'blurred' the rules a bit too much


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 11, 2011)

Cameron doesn't need the right of the party at the moment, they need him - he can do what he likes, he has no challangers, no opposition within the party.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 11, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Cameron doesn't need the right of the party at the moment, they need him - he can do what he likes, he has no challangers, no opposition within the party.


no challengers yet , and he's played it well so far - managed to get through the Murdoch/Coulson stuff pretty much unscathed -


----------



## Poo Flakes (Oct 11, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> The longer he leaves resigning the more damaged he will look.
> 
> If he goes now he can say -
> 
> ...



It really depends how much shite is yet to come. If the MoD is as corrupt as most suspect they'll want Fox to remain there. The last thing they want is a Tory grandee, or some young Tory armchair general like Rory Stewart to come in and immediately get caught up in a shitstorm of dodgy arms deals and nepotism.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 11, 2011)

Poo Flakes said:


> It really depends how much shite is yet to come. If the MoD is as corrupt as most suspect they'll want Fox to remain there. The last thing they want is a Tory grandee, or some young Tory armchair general like Rory Stewart to come in and immediately get caught up in a shitstorm of dodgy arms deals and nepotism.



Now there is a thought


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 11, 2011)

big eejit said:


> This Telegraph article is full of coincidences. Reminds me of Muriel's Wedding:
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/new...and-Adam-Werritty-an-unlikely-friendship.html



I wonder how carefully the Telegraph's lawyers ran the rule over the wording of that article .... 

It's pretty good, whatever .....

This one isn't bad either, for sleaze-detail ....
Harvey Boulter : I assumed Adam Werrity was an MOD man : Dubai-based businessman says Liam Fox's friend discussed potential defence contracts and legal issues with him

Not all of that's new -- some of it has been posted on this thread already -- but ....







Somewhere where Dr Liam Fox will be seen near you, very soon ...


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 12, 2011)

the sun today is running the 'truth' about the robbery at Foxy's before the election; at the time the tory press office had reported that Dr Fox was alone that night (his wife was "away"), now it appears that a "younger man" was also staying over with the good doctor.


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## Gingerman (Oct 12, 2011)

barney_pig said:


> the sun today is running the 'truth' about the robbery at Foxy's before the election; at the time the tory press office had reported that Dr Fox was alone that night (his wife was "away"), now it appears that a "younger man" was also staying over with the good doctor.


http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/3866947/Tory-cover-up-over-Liam-Fox-burglary.html


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## Balbi (Oct 12, 2011)

TBH, give a fuck not if he's bi, gay or whatever - as the sun seem to be heavily hinting at with their traditional reserved approach - but if he's abusing his position to financially benefit his friends, then GTFO Foxy.

This governments Mandelson, except without the charm, evil and bouncebackability.


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 12, 2011)

Nick robinson was on radio 4 earlier having been freshly breifed by the 'freinds' of dr fox.
Hes the victim of a hate campaign apparently. And he felt himself an 'outsider' at the MOD so he had his like minded mate alongside him as an unofficial advisor. Like you do. I mean most people take their mates/lovers to work with them as a bit of moral support dont they? Esepcially when they are doing high level arms deals involving billions of pounds in public money.

Keep Digging Liam.


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## Athos (Oct 12, 2011)

Banging on about whether or not he's gay just gives ammunition to his defenders, who say it's a witch-hunt. That's completely irrelevant to the issue of corruption. 

Whilst I'm no great fan of squaddies, if they're doing Fox's bidding without essential protective kit whilst his mate is using the friendship to cream money off the MOD budget, then he's got to go.


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 12, 2011)

Hes an actively homphobic family values 'happily married' tory.

If he and werrity are lovers it makes him a fraud and a hypocrite.

Of course its relevant.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 12, 2011)

Athos said:


> Banging on about whether or not he's gay just gives ammunition to his defenders, who say it's a witch-hunt. That's completely irrelevant to the issue of corruption.
> 
> *Whilst I'm no great fan of squaddies, if they're doing Fox's bidding without essential protective kit whilst his mate is using the friendship to cream money off the MOD budget,* then he's got to go.


 
Standard MOD top bod practise, he is probably quite outraged to have been caught with his hand in the till. The sex side of it is just standard tory scandal stuff- its always sex \*and* money with that lot


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 12, 2011)

Its quite clear that these cunts regards rules about probity, transparencty and accountability as really not for the likes of them. To them the whole point of being in a position of power is to get ones snout in the trough.

Fox and Werritiys dodgey double act is fucking blatant and he is clearly deeply indignant that anyone would dare quesiton him on this.


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## Athos (Oct 12, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Hes an actively homphobic family values 'happily married' tory.
> 
> If he and werrity are lovers it makes him a fraud and a hypocrite.
> 
> Of course its relevant.


Tory in hypocrite shock.


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## butchersapron (Oct 12, 2011)

Athos said:


> Tory in hypocrite shock.


No, Tory hypocrite in damaging homophobic public behaviours over many years exposed as being gay - maybe his being exposed will stop other hypocrites from acting that way. And what is this idicoy that something has to be a shock to be deserving of exposure? Constantly expose the normal everyday hypocrisy and you'll soon see it becoming less common. There are many things where being gay is irrelevant - it doesn't follow that being gay is irrelevant in all situations. He built his hard right image that got him into the position of being sec of state for defence on his public homophobia (at least in part) - that makes it relevant. It's possible for it to be relevant and you also not to care that he's gay.


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## articul8 (Oct 12, 2011)

Assuming that he is gay/bi and Werrity is his lover - it looks like he was trying to cover his tracks by NOT appointing him as a SPAD.  Otherwise it would have been straightforward to appoint him - there really is a very low threshold for public appointments of this kind.  But we now need to know which financial interests were paying for his shadow SPAD role, and whether they had a stake in defence/strategic relations stuff.

(btw Osborne might well be behind the anti-LF stuff in revenge for Fox's strategic "leaks" to the Telegraph).


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 12, 2011)

Poo Flakes said:


> It really depends how much shite is yet to come. If the MoD is as corrupt as most suspect they'll want Fox to remain there. The last thing they want is a Tory grandee, or some young Tory armchair general like Rory Stewart to come in and immediately get caught up in a shitstorm of dodgy arms deals and nepotism.



MoD are a department with an excellent record of getting ministers to "go native", though.
One of the big issues, and one that no government has faced up to since the 1930s to any real degree is that the MoD and its' predecessors have only ever procured in this manner. It's not a case (as with some of the shit-poor procurement practices in other depts) that this is a legacy of Thatcherism: The MoD, the War Dept etc have *always* operated in this way. I wouldn't say that the bureaucrats siphon as much money from the kitty as their early nineteenth century counterparts, or that they invest in as many lame ducks as their 1930s counterparts, but the decision-making is still as "informed" as it has ever been, i.e. decisions are made by bureaucrats who have face-to-face dealings with the manufacturers of the goods being procured, rather than on merit.

Rory Stewart would make no difference. The only thing that would, would be to completely isolate the procurement process from the departments involved, and that will never happen. Too much pork would be at risk.


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## gavman (Oct 12, 2011)

Poo Flakes said:


> It really depends how much shite is yet to come. If the MoD is as corrupt as most suspect they'll want Fox to remain there. The last thing they want is a Tory grandee, or some young Tory armchair general like Rory Stewart to come in and immediately get caught up in a shitstorm of dodgy arms deals and nepotism.


rory stewart isn't an armchair general, no matter what your general opinion of him. and whenever he's interviewed on the subjects of afghanistan or iraq he talks a lot of sense. shame he joined the tories, but no surprise


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## Poo Flakes (Oct 12, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> MoD are a department with an excellent record of getting ministers to "go native", though.
> One of the big issues, and one that no government has faced up to since the 1930s to any real degree is that the MoD and its' predecessors have only ever procured in this manner. It's not a case (as with some of the shit-poor procurement practices in other depts) that this is a legacy of Thatcherism: The MoD, the War Dept etc have *always* operated in this way. I wouldn't say that the bureaucrats siphon as much money from the kitty as their early nineteenth century counterparts, or that they invest in as many lame ducks as their 1930s counterparts, but the decision-making is still as "informed" as it has ever been, i.e. decisions are made by bureaucrats who have face-to-face dealings with the manufacturers of the goods being procured, rather than on merit.



You think it is the faceless bureaucrats that pull the strings? I thought the big problem in a country like Britain was the 'military-industrial complex', much more about who we sell arms to, than the usual incompetence in tendering, could be wrong though.



gavman said:


> rory stewart isn't an armchair general, no matter what your general opinion of him. and whenever he's interviewed on the subjects of afghanistan or iraq he talks a lot of sense. shame he joined the tories, but no surprise



Pretty much all Rory Stewart and the Conservative Party have to say about Afghanistan.


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## agricola (Oct 12, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Rory Stewart would make no difference. The only thing that would, would be to completely isolate the procurement process from the departments involved, and that will never happen. Too much pork would be at risk.



A better bet would be to nationalize it again - most of its funding comes from the state anyway, it would protect vital manufacturing jobs within the UK, costs would be reduced, there would be less corruption going on abroad, the quality and relevance of the equipment produced would probably be higher, and it would prevent this type of thing from going on in our own government.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 12, 2011)

Poo Flakes said:


> You think it is the faceless bureaucrats that pull the strings? I thought the big problem in a country like Britain was the 'military-industrial complex', much more about who we sell arms to, than the usual incompetence in tendering, could be wrong though.



Well, I was talking about procurement, and procurement is far more influenced by the mandarins than by whoever is in government. Weapons sales, however, aren't as much to do with the MoD as the Board of Trade/Dept for Trade and Industry or whatever it's currently called, and the Export Credit Guarantee system. Our "military/industrial complex" is quite undeveloped compared to that of, say, the US, and is subsidised like fuck too, in order to keep a "home" capacity for weapons development alive (one of the many reasons weapons exports aren't more tightly scrutinised). The UK doesn't really have a "military/industrial complex" so much as a mutual support compact between industry and government. Add to that the notoriously loose procurement standards at MoD, and it's a paradise for incompetents and ne'er-do-wells.


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## Athos (Oct 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> No, Tory hypocrite in damaging homophobic public behaviours over many years exposed as being gay - maybe his being exposed will stop other hypocrites from acting that way. And what is this idicoy that something has to be a shock to be deserving of exposure? Constantly expose the normal everyday hypocrisy and you'll soon see it becoming less common. There are many things where being gay is irrelevant - it doesn't follow that being gay is irrelevant in all situations. He built his hard right image that got him into the position of being sec of state for defence on his public homophobia (at least in part) - that makes it relevant. It's possible for it to be relevant and you also not to care that he's gay.


I think that the minimal relevance his sexuality might have is outweighed by the fact that a focus on out gives his supporters an easy out. It let's them address that issue rather than corruption.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 12, 2011)

agricola said:


> A better bet would be to nationalize it again - most of its funding comes from the state anyway, it would protect vital manufacturing jobs within the UK, costs would be reduced, there would be less corruption going on abroad, the quality and relevance of the equipment produced would probably be higher, and it would prevent this type of thing from going on in our own government.



Nationalising it would merely mean the corrpuption was carried out by the state rather than the private sector. 
As for "vital", it's the production capacity that is arguably vital, and the jobs are a concomitant of that. Even the Tories understand that some capacity independent of "the market" is necessary to assure a steady supply of materiel if "everything goes tits-up".


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 12, 2011)

Athos said:


> I think that the minimal relevance his sexuality might have is outweighed by the fact that a focus on out gives his supporters an easy out. It let's them address that issue rather than corruption.



There is no easy out for Liam Fox or his supporters if he is gay and is forced out of the closet. It would kill him completely politically.

And this is not a desire to use his sexuality against him. It is a desire to use his homophobia and hypocrisy against him. Any nasty fallout this scumbag gets will be richly deserved.


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## Louis MacNeice (Oct 12, 2011)

Athos said:


> I think that the minimal relevance his sexuality might have is outweighed by the fact that a focus on out gives his supporters an easy out. It let's them address that issue rather than corruption.


 
Perhaps the corruption and hypocrisy (if that's what it is) is all of a piece with a really unpleasant, anti-social 'them and us' attitude? If that's the case then it's worth pointing out.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


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## Athos (Oct 12, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> There is no easy out for Liam Fox or his supporters if he is gay and is forced out of the closet. It would kill him completely politically.
> 
> And this is not a desire to use his sexuality against him. It is a desire to use his homophobia and hypocrisy against him. Any nasty fallout this scumbag gets will be richly deserved.


Don't get me wrong, I'd happily see any weapon used against him, if it is effective. My fear with the sexuality issue is that it will allow distraction from the allegation of corruption. If it doesn't, and it just helps put another nail in the coffin by exposing hypocrisy, then go for it.


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## weltweit (Oct 12, 2011)

On 18, I think it is, foreign trips which Fox made, Werrity was present. Just that number of trips is interesting, who was funding Werrity for these trips would be interesting to know.


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## agricola (Oct 12, 2011)

Athos said:


> Don't get me wrong, I'd happily see any weapon used against him, if it is effective. My fear with the sexuality issue is that it will allow distraction from the allegation of corruption. If it doesn't, and it just helps put another nail in the coffin by exposing hypocrisy, then go for it.



This.  I am sure Fox would like nothing more than for this to become a story about his sexuality, rather than what else Werrity was doing for him.


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## Jeff Robinson (Oct 12, 2011)

I don't even care if he's homophobic, hypocritical or corrupt - although he's probably all three. He's tory vermin and hence a diseased scumbag that deserves to be trampled into to the dirt and pissed all over like the good-for-nothing piece of shit that he is. _Any_ excuse will do. Hatred for tories must be pure and unconditional otherwise shit aint never gonna change.


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## butchersapron (Oct 12, 2011)

agricola said:


> This. I am sure Fox would like nothing more than for this to become a story about his sexuality, rather than what else Werrity was doing for him.


I'm sure the thief David Laws would have too - but that didn't happen despite his media mates doing their very best for him. People are sophisticated enough to work this out. There was no way out via that path for him and there isn't for Fox.


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## agricola (Oct 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I'm sure the thief David Laws would have too - but that didn't happen despite his media mates doing their very best for him. People are sophisticated enough to work this out. There was no way out via that path for him and there isn't for Fox.



I agree, but as you say that didnt prevent Laws trying to pull that trick, and it appears it isnt preventing Fox from trying it either.


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## butchersapron (Oct 12, 2011)

Let him try - it will make things worse for him, people laughed at Laws for that - they'll laugh at Fox.

It appears his immediate tactic is to throw his pal under the bus though.


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## agricola (Oct 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Let him try - it will make things worse for him, people laughed at Laws for that - they'll laugh at Fox.
> 
> It appears his immediate tactic is to throw his pal under the bus though.



That will be the last throw of the dice for Fox, then.


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 12, 2011)

That's laughably desperate.

'This bloke who comes on all these foriegn minsterial trips with me, and meets with me regualuraly at the ministry and who is a (very) close friend is also a fantasist claiming that he has access to me in a minsiterial capacity'

Cant quite see that particular dog running somehow.


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## Athos (Oct 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I'm sure the thief David Laws would have too - but that didn't happen despite his media mates doing their very best for him. People are sophisticated enough to work this out. There was no way out via that path for him and there isn't for Fox.


I hope you're right.


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## Dan U (Oct 12, 2011)

A fantasist who - depending on which report you read - somehow manages to conjur up between £40k - £80k to spend on flights and accommodation.

quite good at this lark by the looks of it.


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## Pinette (Oct 12, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Nationalising it would merely mean the corrpuption was carried out by the state rather than the private sector.
> As for "vital", it's the production capacity that is arguably vital, and the jobs are a concomitant of that. Even the Tories understand that some capacity independent of "the market" is necessary to assure a steady supply of materiel if "everything goes tits-up".


Do you not think that if it were to be nationalised again there would be more room for redress in cases of outright corruption? Maybe?


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## elbows (Oct 12, 2011)

This angle is fun:

Wealthy donors 'paid for Werritty to advise Liam Fox'
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15269215



> The BBC's Nick Robinson says the wealthy backers who paid Mr Werritty an annual retainer did so because they saw him as someone who, unlike civil servants, could be relied on to champion support for Eurosceptic, pro-American and pro-Israeli policies.
> They say they do not have defence interests, however.
> Our political editor said the problem with this explanation was that having an adviser outside the rules of the civil service - and paid for by undeclared donors - was almost certainly a breach of ministerial rules.
> For Labour, shadow defence minister Mr Jones told the BBC the revelations "raised huge questions".
> ...


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## butchersapron (Oct 12, 2011)

Nothing to hide:


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## agricola (Oct 12, 2011)

damn you butchers!


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## not-bono-ever (Oct 12, 2011)

I would like to add a comment that adds zero to the debate

Fox is a cunt.

/


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## CyberRose (Oct 12, 2011)

If somebody(s) has worked their arse(s) off all their lives to amass a small giant fortune [of other peoples' money], then why shouldn't they be able to buy government policies that are Eurosceptic, pro-America and pro-Israel? They're obviously more important to [those that rule] this country than everyone else who lives here so why shouldn't they get a greater say? As long as you have enough money for a few pints at the end of the working week, then you really don't need to worry yourself about little things like this.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 12, 2011)

He'll be gone tomorrow, I'd have thought. I see no way at all that he can survive this latest one.

I admit I'm enjoying the spectacle of his friends stitching him up, but I do wonder why they've come out and said this now.


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## campanula (Oct 12, 2011)

a sleazy, bullying, vile scumbag, encouraging violent brutal sqaddies to continue to abuse and humiliate prisoners of war through the obscene practice of 'harshing'. Hood the fucker, tape his wrists while some wanker in camouflage pisses on his head.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 12, 2011)

elbows said:


> This angle is fun:
> 
> Wealthy donors 'paid for Werritty to advise Liam Fox'
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15269215


I was wondering why he'd put up that "it wasn't me, my mates say I was gullible and taken advantage of, I'm _useless_" defence earlier - which you'd only ever go for if "complete lack of future" was better than the alternative.


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## JimW (Oct 12, 2011)

campanula said:


> a sleazy, bullying, vile scumbag, encouraging violent brutal sqaddies to continue to abuse and humiliate prisoners of war through the obscene practice of 'harshing'. Hood the fucker, tape his wrists while some wanker in camouflage pisses on his head.


He normally has to pay for that.


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## Sue (Oct 12, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I admit I'm enjoying the spectacle of his friends stitching him up, but I do wonder why they've come out and said this now.



In the hope the press'll be satisfied with that and won't dig into any potentially more embarassing stuff? (I know that's ridiculous but then they've been pretty thick at dealing with all this so far.)


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 12, 2011)

elbows said:


> This angle is fun:
> 
> Wealthy donors 'paid for Werritty to advise Liam Fox'
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15269215



I wonder weather this was a cack-handed  attempt to bullshit his way out of it.

Somehow Werrity's income has to be explained - if he is shown to be earning money as a defence lobbyist whilst working as Fox unofficial advisor then thats a serious breach of the rules and Fox has to go.

So maybe they thought of this wheeze, where 'friends of Fox'  tell the bbc that Werrity is paid by outside interests not connected with the defence industry - gets him off the hook with regards to Werrity earning money through Fox. But - oops - its just as serious a breach of the rules.

The corrupt cunt has painted himself into a corner and his lies are piling up fast.






'I'm co-operating here!'


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 13, 2011)

I hadn't thought of it like that. His friends are trying to help him with this story about having paid for Werrity. Good grief, he's nose-deep in shit if that's the best way they can think to portray this.


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## weltweit (Oct 13, 2011)

I can't really understand why the warning bells were not ringing for Fox when Werrity kept appearing all over the place wherever Fox went. He isn't an official which means he is a lobbyist, for whom? it appears so far no one knows.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 13, 2011)

There's no way out. There is no story that can justify this bloke trailing around the world with him. What a complete twat to have acted like this. If he weren't such a complete cunt, I'd probably feel a little sorry for the hapless moron.


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 13, 2011)

'Pesky rules and regualations are for the proles you see, not for the likes of us'


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## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I can't really understand why the warning bells were not ringing for Fox when Werrity kept appearing all over the place wherever Fox went. He isn't an official which means he is a lobbyist, for whom? it appears so far no one knows.



Im not quite sure how you have managed to pick up the stick by that end. Its not even the wrong end of the stick, its an end the stick doesn't even have.


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## killer b (Oct 13, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I can't really understand why the warning bells were not ringing for Fox when Werrity kept appearing all over the place wherever Fox went. He isn't an official which means he is a lobbyist, for whom? it appears so far no one knows.


do you only post out of some kind of compulsion?


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 13, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> 'Pesky rules and regualations are for the proles you see, not for the likes of us'


Yeah, that is what it is, isn't it? I hope the fall hurts.


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## editor (Oct 13, 2011)

Says a lot about Cameron's woeful judgement. Again.


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## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)




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## Sue (Oct 13, 2011)

Where can I find some weathy donors who'll fly me to exotic locations around the world...?


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 13, 2011)

editor said:


> Says a lot about Cameron's woeful judgement. Again.



Not really. Fox was a rival from a different faction in the party. It was only natural to give him a job.

And what do you mean by 'again'? You seem to be implying that Cameron could be using good judgement here. How? By employing a more effective cunt? tbh I couldn't give a flying fuck about any of this on that level. Fox, Cameron et al are hell-bent on changing this country in some awful ways. This kind of sleaze is beside the point compared to the policies they are carrying out.


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## weltweit (Oct 13, 2011)

killer b said:


> do you only post out of some kind of compulsion?



Yes ..


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## editor (Oct 13, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Not really. Fox was a rival from a different faction in the party. It was only natural to give him a job.


He's defending him to the hilt in the face of overwhelming dodginess. That is the bad judgement, and it's the same bad judgement he exercised when he defended Andy Coulson until it became an untenable position.


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## weltweit (Oct 13, 2011)

editor said:


> He's defending him to the hilt in the face of overwhelming dodginess. That is the bad judgement, and it's the same bad judgement he exercised when he defended Andy Coulson until it became an untenable position.



But that seems to be what the UK political class do, everyone has "their full support" being shorthand for they may be about to go.


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## Sue (Oct 13, 2011)

weltweit said:


> But that seems to be what the UK political class do, everyone has "their full support" being shorthand for they may be about to go.



Couple of pals were comparing it to the 'support' given to football managers just before they're sacked...

(And sacked he should be, if only for that shite shirt.)


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## shagnasty (Oct 13, 2011)

elbows said:


>


The liam the witch and the wardrobe


----------



## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)




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## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

Im not really interested in this particular aspect of the story but having found the following photo I am unable to resist posting it.


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## binka (Oct 13, 2011)

i know they're politicans so corruption is inevitable but why do they think they can be so brazen about it? did he think no one would ever notice or did he not care?


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## shagnasty (Oct 13, 2011)

Surely he will be so tainted that he can not carry on.But we all no what politician are


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## elbows (Oct 13, 2011)

Can someone remind me which ministers are completely untainted so far? The Fox thing seems like the biggest scandal to date, but prior to this we have seen numerous tories and a few lib-dems soil themselves in public in some way, at the very least having said incredibly stupid things. Their public profile is then reduced as damage limitation. Off the top of my head I can think of Spelman, Gove, Hague, Lansley and Laws, and perhaps to a lesser extent Clarke, Alexander, Huhne and May. Who did I forget?


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## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2011)

cameron-coulson?


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 13, 2011)

Pinette said:


> Do you not think that if it were to be nationalised again there would be more room for redress in cases of outright corruption? Maybe?



Nope, I really don't.
I remember some of the totally "out there" procurement decisions the MoD have made in *my* lifetime from a nationalised defence industry, and much of it is one hand shaking the other: The MoD will order _x_ number of armoured cars to keep the Alvis order book ticking over, they'll refit this frigate and that aircraft carrier to keep the shipyards working, and they'll commission a new and improved personal communications system so that platoon _B_ can hear their leuitenants' orders clearly before they ignore them, so that GEC/Marconi have a cash cow. The government will then turn a blind eye to those nationalised armoured car manufacturers, shipyards and electronics companies selling their wares abroad through the mechanism of offering inducements. It's incestuous, and it's as bad whether the defence industry is privately or publicly-owned. It's just better-hidden when publicly-owned, because career bureaucrats tend to be better at burying this kind of stuff.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 13, 2011)

I'm reminded of the old excuse 'the problem with the defence business is that it is a business'

TBH I don't see what could be done to stop the on-the-takery that goes right through from quartemasters to top politicos.


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## goldenecitrone (Oct 13, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Nothing to hide:



Somebody should put some chicken feathers around the Fox's guilty mouth in that one.


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## Poo Flakes (Oct 13, 2011)

elbows said:


> Can someone remind me which ministers are completely untainted so far? The Fox thing seems like the biggest scandal to date, but prior to this we have seen numerous tories and a few lib-dems soil themselves in public in some way, at the very least having said incredibly stupid things. Their public profile is then reduced as damage limitation. Off the top of my head I can think of Spelman, Gove, Hague, Lansley and Laws, and perhaps to a lesser extent Clarke, Alexander, Huhne and May. Who did I forget?



Osbourne - forgetting the cocaine and prostitutes, which hardly tarnishes his name in my book, caught on a yacht with a Russian oligarch shortly before meeting.... Mandelson!
Lord Strathclyde - all sorts

Actually the only guys to suffer from scandals was David Laws and Vince Cable. The latter's shafting is looking even more stupid considering what has been happening to Murdoch, whereas the former's was hardly as bad as this whole Liam Fox bullshit.



ViolentPanda said:


> Nope, I really don't.
> I remember some of the totally "out there" procurement decisions the MoD have made in *my* lifetime from a nationalised defence industry, and much of it is one hand shaking the other: The MoD will order _x_ number of armoured cars to keep the Alvis order book ticking over, they'll refit this frigate and that aircraft carrier to keep the shipyards working, and they'll commission a new and improved personal communications system so that platoon _B_ can hear their leuitenants' orders clearly before they ignore them, so that GEC/Marconi have a cash cow. The government will then turn a blind eye to those nationalised armoured car manufacturers, shipyards and electronics companies selling their wares abroad through the mechanism of offering inducements. It's incestuous, and it's as bad whether the defence industry is privately or publicly-owned. It's just better-hidden when publicly-owned, because career bureaucrats tend to be better at burying this kind of stuff.



Is the problem not just one of hooray henries in the MoD hierarchy having no fucking clue if a composite matrix of ceramic-steel-nickel alloy is worth the extra investment or not? I doubt the engineers in the British Army could answer that conclusively one way or price anything with any degree of accuracy. Sad thing is, there are probably groups of gun owners in America which could create very efficient, successful militaries for a tiny fraction of the MoD budget.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 13, 2011)

Poo Flakes said:


> Actually the only guys to suffer from scandals was David Laws and Vince Cable. The latter's shafting is looking even more stupid considering what has been happening to Murdoch, whereas *the former's was hardly as bad as this whole Liam Fox bullshit.*


Eh? He did something that, if you or I were to do it to say the dole office, would land us in jail. Deliberate, calculated defrauding of public money that if it were done by anyone other than a politician would be considered criminal.


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## stethoscope (Oct 13, 2011)

Vince "I have declared war on Murdoch" Cable LOL.


----------



## past caring (Oct 13, 2011)




----------



## Poo Flakes (Oct 13, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Eh? He did something that, if you or I were to do it to say the dole office, would land us in jail. Deliberate, calculated defrauding of public money that if it were done by anyone other than a politician would be considered criminal.



Of course what Laws did was criminal. My point is that there are countless politicians which have done what Laws did.  Prescott and Blunkett the most obvious in Labour. In my book, Blunkett's case was far more serious. It does not only look like Fox did what Laws did, but has also involved him in the day-to-day running of the MoD, which Werrity (and Fox himself) saw as a cash cow.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 13, 2011)

past caring said:


>


----------



## teqniq (Oct 13, 2011)

Craig Murray's take on this:

http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/10/the-real-werritty-scandal


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 13, 2011)

Got to love the Tories. Only eighteen months in power and it's like all the sleaze and brown envelopes never went away.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 13, 2011)

More


> Liam Fox faced fresh accusations of running a shadow foreign policy after it emerged he was involved in setting up a private investment firm to operate in Sri Lanka in apparent contravention of UK government policy, with his controversial friend Adam Werritty as its key contact.


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## Stoat Boy (Oct 13, 2011)

Only question remaining in this whole thing is why he is still in office ? Only advantage I can see is that Cameron wants him so discredited that when he does have to resign he has had his legs done so much that he cannot lead any back bench rebellions.


----------



## JHE (Oct 13, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> Only question remaining in this whole thing is why he is still in office ? Only advantage I can see is that Cameron wants him so discredited that when he does have to resign he has had his legs done so much that he cannot lead any back bench rebellions.



There is also the other thing that the media has talked about a bit in the last couple of days:  Cameron doesn't want the media to decide who's in the government and, in particular, he doesn't want to be labelled weak, in the way Major was, for losing ministers.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Oct 13, 2011)

JHE said:


> There is also the other thing that the media has talked about a bit in the last couple of days: Cameron doesn't want the media to decide who's in the government and, in particular, he doesn't want to be labelled weak, in the way Major was, for losing ministers.



I can sort of see that but for me Fox is so damaged, and has been for days, that his resignation is a nailed on certainty. Just a case of when, rather than if. Which then poses the question about why the delay ? Its almost painful to watch Fox being hung, drawn and quartered and I can only assume that Cameron sees an advantage in letting this carry on.


----------



## Giles (Oct 13, 2011)

Poo Flakes said:


> Is the problem not just one of hooray henries in the MoD hierarchy having no fucking clue if a composite matrix of ceramic-steel-nickel alloy is worth the extra investment or not? I doubt the engineers in the British Army could answer that conclusively one way or price anything with any degree of accuracy. Sad thing is, there are probably groups of gun owners in America which could create very efficient, successful militaries for a tiny fraction of the MoD budget.



I think it's more a general problem with the "boys toys" desire for ever more hi-tech, cool gadgets, when what is needed is a lot more of smaller, simpler bits of kit that would be more useful against most current and likely enemies. But these boring practical things don't get championed and promoted by the people in charge. So, we are building two huge carriers we can't afford and with no planes to fly off them (didn't help that we scrapped the cheap-ish ones we already had). And have these super hi-tech fighter planes dropping bombs on opponents who don't even have an air force at all.

Giles..


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 13, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> I can sort of see that but for me Fox is so damaged, and has been for days, that his resignation is a nailed on certainty. Just a case of when, rather than if. Which then poses the question about why the delay ? Its almost painful to watch Fox being hung, drawn and quartered and I can only assume that Cameron sees an advantage in letting this carry on.



Perhaps fox has some dirt on him?


----------



## killer b (Oct 13, 2011)

i dunno. it seems to be his standard MO when faced with problems - do and say fuck all until his hand is forced. we can only speculate what his motivation in this is - i'd suggest it's because he's a shit & useless flapping cunt, rather than it being evidence of some machiavellian mastermind at work.


----------



## Stoat Boy (Oct 13, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Perhaps fox has some dirt on him?


 
Its possible I suppose. There is certainly something very rum going on, thats for sure because he is going. There is no way he can survive this.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 13, 2011)

killer b said:


> i dunno. it seems to be his standard MO when faced with problems - do and say fuck all until his hand is forced. we can only speculate what his motivation in this is - i'd suggest it's because he's a shit & useless flapping cunt, rather than it being evidence of some machiavellian mastermind at work.



yeah, he doesn't come across as a sadist when it comes to this sort of thing, i think it's actually because he doesn't know what to do.


----------



## killer b (Oct 13, 2011)

he's fucking useless. completely out of his depth.


----------



## Giles (Oct 13, 2011)

Maybe allowing more time for more details of Fox's "wrongdoing" to come out, will (they hope!) mean that they can focus the blame on him individually, as and when he goes?

And not so much criticism of those who appointed him, and ignored what was going on?

Giles..


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 13, 2011)

Yeah it is amazing that cameron hasn't sacked him yet. If he'd have done it at the weekend Fox might have been able to return to government at some time in the future and cameron would be able to boast that he's deciseive and tough on sleeve.

My guess is that he doesn't feel strong enough and/or sees Fox as a potential threat to his leadership - maybe he doesn't want him in a postion to forment trouble on the backbenchers - so is waiting till he has no option but to sack him and fox's reputation is conviniently destroyed.

I've really come to hate that Fox cunt though - he seems almost the ultimate embodyment of the arrogance, sense of entitlement, narcissism, decietfulness and sheer nastiness typical of those of his political stripe.

You can plainly tell that he is outraged that anyone would dare to question him.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 13, 2011)

Lib-dem on question time just basically said that it's a good thing that Fox has this relationship - it's good to have outside input into serious affairs.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Oct 13, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Lib-dem on question time just basically said that it's a good thing that Fox has this relationship - it's good to have outside input into serious affairs.



Oh FFS! (Hardly any surprise coming from the Orange Books, though).  Makes me wonder which of the Orangers are getting "outside input" at the moment?


----------



## killer b (Oct 13, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Lib-dem on question time just basically said that it's a good thing that Fox has this relationship - it's good to have outside input into serious affairs.


one more possible reason for cameron's inaction - he doesn't think he's done anything wrong...


----------



## teqniq (Oct 13, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Lib-dem on question time just basically said that it's a good thing that Fox has this relationship - it's good to have outside input into serious affairs.



What. The. Fuck. Is that supposed to mean???

Jeez you couldn't make it up.


----------



## little_legs (Oct 13, 2011)

So, who the heck is Lieutenant-Colonel Graham Livesey?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 13, 2011)

little_legs said:


> So, who the heck is Lieutenant-Colonel Graham Livesey?


are you aware of google?

http://www.google.co.uk


----------



## little_legs (Oct 13, 2011)

yeah, i am. what's wrong with appointing this guy?


----------



## big eejit (Oct 14, 2011)

*Liam Fox faces fresh questions on Sri Lanka links*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/13/liam-fox-fresh-questions-over-sri-lanka

Awfully good of Fox to stick around for so long. Like a steaming beacon of shit telling the press where to look for stories of rotten greed at the top of government.


----------



## dylans (Oct 14, 2011)

This is becoming far far more serious than his sexuality or who he was fucking or even about how taxpayers money was spent. It is becoming much more serious than that.

It looks like his "friend" managed to accompany Fox on all these foreign trips and stayed in world class hotels because he was being financed by "lobbyists" for right wing US and pro Israeli interests. That makes this very sinister indeed.

Who were those sources? What did they expect for their money? and most importantly what did they get? They didn't finance him for fun, there must have been a specific purpose and it is pretty obvious what that was. To promote the interests of Israel through the British government via Werrity's relationship with Fox. That takes this into the realm of espionage. A paid representative of foreign powers accompanied the British defence secretary around the globe, sat in on high level meetings between the British government and important representatives of foreign nations and falsely portrayed himself to them as an official advisor to the defence secretary of the British Government in order to influence those meetings and possibly gain access to sources of information otherwise inaccessible and to pass that information onto his paymasters.There is a name for that. It's called spying.

Now Fox could have made him an advisor, he could have put him on salary. He already has 3 special advisors on salary. He didn't. Instead he was happy to go along with his "friend" picking up a salary from the representatives of the interests of foreign powers. Given what we know about Israeli security services, there is a high probability that those representatives included Mossad. This now has the possibility to turn into another profumo with or without the sex. All indications are that Cameron will try to limit the enquiry to questions of whether and how cash was spent. If it remains that it will be a cover up. The real question is who funded his "friend" Why did they fund him and what did Werrity give them in return?



> This information comes straight from a source with direct access to the Cabinet Office investigation into Fox’s relationship with Werritty.
> Gus O’Donnell, Cabinet Secretary, has fixed with Cameron the lines of his investigation to allow him to whitewash Fox.
> The Cabinet Office will only look for direct evidence of a little grubby money-making for introductions to Fox. But what is actually happening is much worse and much more serious. Who paid for Werritty’s eighteen overseas trips with Liam Fox and his stays in exclusive hotels in the World’s most expensive destinations? What does he live on?
> The answer is that Werritty is paid by representatives of far right US and Israeli sources to influence the British defence secretary. *It has been discussed within the MOD whether Werritty is being – knowingly or otherwise – run as an agent of influence by the CIA or Mossad.* That is why the chiefs of the armed forces are so concerned, and why there is today much gagging at the stitch up within the Cabinet Office.
> ...



http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2011/10/the-real-werritty-scandal/


----------



## barney_pig (Oct 14, 2011)

dylans said:


> This is becoming far far more serious than his sexuality or who he was fucking or even about how taxpayers money was spent. It is becoming much more serious than that.
> 
> It looks like his "friend" managed to accompany Fox on all these foreign trips and stayed in world class hotels because he was being financed by "lobbyists" for right wing US and pro Israeli interests. That makes this very sinister indeed.
> 
> ...


oh those pesky Jews!


----------



## dylans (Oct 14, 2011)

From the Guardian



> *Officials expressed concern that Fox and Werritty might even have been in freelance discussions with Israeli intelligence agencies.*
> 
> Ursula Brennan, iIn her interim report to O'Donnell last week, Ursula Brennan, permanent secretary at the Ministry of Defence, picked out a meeting last year when Werritty was present with the newly appointed UK ambassador to Israel, Matthew Gould. "Dr Fox acknowledges that it was not appropriate for Mr Werritty to have attended such a meeting at the MoD," she commented.
> In February this year, Werritty and Fox flew to Israel for a conference on regional security. Fox called for stronger sanctions to compel Iran to give up its nuclear weapons programme. Werritty arranged and attended a dinner at the conference with Fox and Gould.



http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/13/rightwing-tories-rally-liam-fox


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 14, 2011)




----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 14, 2011)

Murkier and yet murkier -

http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16088982

This shady organisation funded Fox and Werrity's trips to Sri Lanka  -



> G3 Ltd describes itself as an "independent strategic advisory firm".
> 
> According to account information obtained by Sky News, G3 employs 32 analysts and is chaired by President Ronald Reagan's former assistant secretary of state for Africa, Chester Crocker.
> 
> ...



I agree that this has gone well beyond Fox having his bestmate/lover as an un-official advisor (and earning money from it) - it looks more and more like a network of sundry neo-con ne'er do wells and spooks up to no good in various parts of the world - tangled webs of funding and contacts.

Whats going on here? Arms deals? Money laundering? Spying? Sanctions busting?

Fucking stinks - bollocks to sir humphrey having a cosy chat and a mild tut tut - there needs to be a full criminal investigation. Which is never going to happen.


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## weltweit (Oct 14, 2011)

As more comes out about Werrity Fox's position becomes more and more untenable.

Will Fox have the decency to resign or will he have to be pushed?


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## butchersapron (Oct 14, 2011)

weltweit said:


> As more comes out about Werrity Fox's position becomes more and more untenable.
> 
> Will Fox have the decency to resign or will he have to be pushed?


Stop saying this.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Stop saying this.



Why, butchers, do you not think Fox should do the decent thing and fall on his sword?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

It's about 30 years too late for Fox to do the decent thing.

tbh I'm amazed he's still in place. Newsnight ran a piece last night about the 'charity' Werrity 'worked' for, Atlantic Bridge. Among other things, they supported a campaign against Obama's healthcare reforms that focussed on the NHS and how awful it is. For that alone, Fox is unfit for government, and that's about 1 percent of his wrongdoing.

Fox is an evil cunt. The idea that any reaction he might make to being caught doing this might be decent is laughable.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 14, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Why, butchers, do you not think Fox should do the decent thing and fall on his sword?



Fox has no concept of honour. Expecting him to "do the decent thing" is futile.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 14, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Why, butchers, do you not think Fox should do the decent thing and fall on his sword?



I meant stop stating the bleeding obvious 2 days after everyone else.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Fox has no concept of honour. Expecting him to "do the decent thing" is futile.


Actually at the start of the week, he could have done a decent thing - shown loyalty to his best chum. Instead he has chosen to drag his mate's name through the mud in an attempt to cling to his job. There really are no redeeming features to the man at all.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's about 30 years too late for Fox to do the decent thing.
> 
> tbh I'm amazed he's still in place. Newsnight ran a piece last night about the 'charity' Werrity 'worked' for, Atlantic Bridge. Among other things, they supported a campaign against Obama's healthcare reforms that focussed on the NHS and how awful it is. For that alone, Fox is unfit for government, and that's about 1 percent of his wrongdoing.
> 
> .



And note that this was whilst Fox was shadow health minister


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Actually at the start of the week, he could have done a decent thing - shown loyalty to his best chum. Instead he has chosen to drag his mate's name through the mud in an attempt to cling to his job. There really are no redeeming features to the man at all.



It's sad to see Dr Liam Fudd turn his guns on his old chum, that wascally Werrity.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Actually at the start of the week, he could have done a decent thing - shown loyalty to his best chum. Instead he has chosen to drag his mate's name through the mud in an attempt to cling to his job. There really are no redeeming features to the man at all.



He's a party politician, so expecting "redeeming features" is optimism on par with expecting that people in flying saucers will come and save us all from our planet-destroying stupidity.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> He's a party politician, so expecting "redeeming features" is optimism on par with expecting that people in flying saucers will come and save us all from our planet-destroying stupidity.


I've been scratching my head to think of counterexamples. There are the likes of Cook and even Howe who resigned because they felt they could not support the govt's policies. But in general, the lust for power does appear to be all-consuming.


----------



## dylans (Oct 14, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Murkier and yet murkier -
> 
> http://news.sky.com/home/politics/article/16088982
> 
> ...


The web gets even stickier. In 2005 an Israeli lobby group called the British Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) donated several thousand pounds to Fox's unsuccessful Conservative Party leadership campaign. The same lobby group also paid for the flights and hotel bill for Adam Werrity for him to attend a conference in Tel Aviv. The chairman of BICOM is a guy called Michael Lewis. Lewis donated £13000 pounds to the right wing so called"charity" called Atlantic Bridge and the sole director of Atlantic Bridge is Adam Werrity. ( I should say was because AB dissolved itself as a charity a few weeks ago)


----------



## big eejit (Oct 14, 2011)

dylans said:


> The web gets even stickier. In 2005 an Israeli lobby group called the British Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) donated several thousand pounds to Fox's unsuccessful Conservative Party leadership campaign. The same lobby group also paid for the flights and hotel bill for Adam Werrity for him to attend a conference in Tel Aviv. The chairman of BICOM is a guy called Michael Lewis. Lewis donated £13000 pounds to the right wing so called"charity" called Atlantic Bridge and the sole director of Atlantic Bridge is Adam Werrity. ( I should say was because AB dissolved itself as a charity a few weeks ago)



As I understand Atlantic Bridge didn't dissolve itself, it was wound up by the Charity Commission as its activities were too political for it to have charitable status. The fact that it did in the first place is a complete scam in itself.


----------



## dylans (Oct 14, 2011)

big eejit said:


> As I understand Atlantic Bridge didn't dissolve itself, it was wound up by the Charity Commission as its activities were too political for it to have charitable status. The fact that it did in the first place is a complete scam in itself.


The guardian reported that it was dissolved by its trustees after the Charities commission suspended it as you say for, well, not being a charity.



> A charity set up by Liam Fox, the defence secretary, has been dissolved by its trustees after criticism by the Charity Commission.
> The charity was wound up by its trustees on Friday, following the commission's demand last summer that its "current activities must cease immediately" because "the activities of the charity have not furthered any of its other charitable purposes in any way".
> The trustees decided to dissolve the charity rather than address the commission's concern that its primary objective appeared to be "promoting a political policy [that] is closely associated with the Conservative party".



As I read that, they could have behaved themselves and stopped being a propaganda tool for right wing Tories but chose not to.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/05/charity-liam-fox-axed-watchdog?INTCMP=SRCH


----------



## big eejit (Oct 14, 2011)

dylans said:


> The guardian reported that it was dissolved by its trustees after the Charities commission suspended it as you say for, well, not being a charity. As I read that, they could have behaved themselves and stopped being a propaganda tool for right wing Tories but chose not to.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/05/charity-liam-fox-axed-watchdog?INTCMP=SRCH



Agreed. So it was basically set up as a charity to take advantage of the tax breaks. Presumably on the basis that if the Charity Commission ever intervened they would have avoided tax, which they won't have to repay.


----------



## Belushi (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I've been scratching my head to think of counterexamples. There are the likes of Cook and even Howe who resigned because they felt they could not support the govt's policies. But in general, the lust for power does appear to be all-consuming.



The Education Secretary who decided she wasn't up to the job, but yeah, few and far between.


----------



## Santino (Oct 14, 2011)

Rumblings on t'internet that he's about to go.


----------



## big eejit (Oct 14, 2011)

Good to see a gov minister taking a principled stand and not just hanging around as long as possible to see if he can get away with it.


----------



## agricola (Oct 14, 2011)

dylans said:


> The web gets even stickier. In 2005 an Israeli lobby group called the British Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) donated several thousand pounds to Fox's unsuccessful Conservative Party leadership campaign. The same lobby group also paid for the flights and hotel bill for Adam Werrity for him to attend a conference in Tel Aviv. The chairman of BICOM is a guy called Michael Lewis. Lewis donated £13000 pounds to the right wing so called"charity" called Atlantic Bridge and the sole director of Atlantic Bridge is Adam Werrity. ( I should say was because AB dissolved itself as a charity a few weeks ago)



As anyone who watched Oborne's great Israeli lobby episode of Dispatches a while back will know, BICOM have fingers in most political pies at Westminster (both CFI and LFI)... it would be great if their involvement is what shoots the fox, though given how many people they have treated to funded trips over the years I would be amazed if it is.

edit:  oh, and BICOM also gave £35000 to Cameron's leadership bid...


----------



## magneze (Oct 14, 2011)

Santino said:


> Rumblings on t'internet that he's about to go.


Do you mean Twitter? Or do you have a link?


----------



## agricola (Oct 14, 2011)

magneze said:


> Do you mean Twitter? Or do you have a link?



http://order-order.com/2011/10/14/rumour-mill-says-fox-might-go-tonight/

edit: BBC also reporting rumours (albeit based on the internets) he has gone


----------



## weltweit (Oct 14, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-15305366
This week last night Portillo on Fox


----------



## big eejit (Oct 14, 2011)

BBC confirmed Fox off


----------



## agricola (Oct 14, 2011)

BBC confirm he has resigned.


----------



## dylans (Oct 14, 2011)

He's quit. Good riddance


----------



## Santino (Oct 14, 2011)

I suppose you can only allow the impression of wrongdoing to go so far.


----------



## weltweit (Oct 14, 2011)

I wonder who will replace him at defence.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Oct 14, 2011)

He has gone!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/blog/2011/oct/14/liam-fox-resigns-live-coverage


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 14, 2011)

Fox fox off


----------



## editor (Oct 14, 2011)

Good riddance to the sleazy fuck.


----------



## big eejit (Oct 14, 2011)

Peter Bone MP on BBC News just now, "Well typical of Liam to put the country first."

I laughed out loud.


----------



## JimW (Oct 14, 2011)

Santino said:


> I suppose you can only allow the impression of wrongdoing to go so far.


It was better than his Michael Caine


----------



## JimW (Oct 14, 2011)

After Cameron making all those noises about waiting for the inquiry, presume this undermines his resolute leader pose a bit.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Oct 14, 2011)

"The Minister has done the decent thing for the country, and so has now resigned, enabling him to dedicate more time to his homophobia, I mean family".


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 14, 2011)

Apparently Liam Fox did send a resignation letter earlier this week but Cameron's only just found it in a bin in St James's Park


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 14, 2011)

cheerio cheerio cheerio!


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 14, 2011)

Fucking brilliant news. This has cheered me up after a bit of a shit week. I hope this is the beginning of the end for this shower of useless bell ends.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

jakethesnake said:


> Fucking brilliant news. This has cheered me up after a bit of a shit week. I hope this is the beginning of the end for this shower of useless bell ends.


Nope. It's the end of Liam Fox as defence sec, that's all. Much as Fox's discomfort pleases me, this changes nothing of any substance.


----------



## jakethesnake (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Nope. It's the end of Liam Fox as defence sec, that's all. Much as Fox's discomfort pleases me, this changes nothing of any substance.


Don't bring me down maaan... I can dream can't I?


----------



## Zabo (Oct 14, 2011)

And now we sit and wait for the dirty washing to be aired.


----------



## gabi (Oct 14, 2011)

Seems like a total prick. Presumably there's something in the Sunday papers he's been warned about or else i cant see why he'd quit this early.


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 14, 2011)

Zabo said:


> And now we sit and wait for the dirty washing to be aired.


Sunday's papers could be interesting


----------



## Zabo (Oct 14, 2011)

Indeed they will Gingerman.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

gabi said:


> Seems like a total prick. Presumably there's something in the Sunday papers he's been warned about or else i cant see why he'd quit this early.


No, it's what has come out in the last two days that has sunk him. The contents of the news last night sealed it. tbh, it's been clear for days now that he would go. The attempts to smear Werrity two days ago showed that he was already desperate. You can't call someone you've taken around the world with you and taken along to important meetings 'Walter Mitty'. It simply didn't stack up.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 14, 2011)

Let's hope that this is now too late for it to stop people investigating the situation.


----------



## gabi (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> No, it's what has come out in the last two days that has sunk him. The contents of the news last night sealed it. tbh, it's been clear for days now that he would go. The attempts to smear Werrity two days ago showed that he was already desperate. You can't call someone you've taken around the world with you and taken along to important meetings 'Walter Mitty'. It simply didn't stack up.



I would think there's more yet. Like confirmation he was shagging a rentboy on the night he was burgled perhaps.

He looked like he'd ridden out the storm otherwise.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

gabi said:


> He looked like he'd ridden out the storm otherwise.


No, he really really didn't.


----------



## gabi (Oct 14, 2011)

Lets see on sunday


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

Oh, there may well be lots more to come out, but he didn't go because of what he feared was about to come out. He went because of what has already come out.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Oct 14, 2011)

Its likely to create tensions between Cameron and the right of his party who will feel they are owed another right winger in a big minsterial post to replace their boy.

I have heard that Dr Fox is saying behind the scenes that he has resigned to spend less time with his friends.


----------



## gabi (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Oh, there may well be lots more to come out, but he didn't go because of what he feared was about to come out. He went because of what has already come out.



I disagree. He was maggie's annointed and therefore given a lot of leeway by cameron. the revelations so far were bad but not enough for a resignation, particularly for a man with an ego the size of his. there must be some hard proof lurking. of either his gay affair or the MoD paying for Werrity's first class flights/hotels.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

No, you don't get it. That Werrity was paid for by a consortium of defence contractors, hedge fund managers and assorted right wing loons was already bad enough. That sank him on its own.


----------



## agricola (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> No, it's what has come out in the last two days that has sunk him. The contents of the news last night sealed it. tbh, it's been clear for days now that he would go. The attempts to smear Werrity two days ago showed that he was already desperate. You can't call someone you've taken around the world with you and taken along to important meetings 'Walter Mitty'. It simply didn't stack up.



This.  In one of its earlier posts today the Guido blog made the very good point that it is the release of such detailed information that has done for Fox - the question must be who is behind those leaks?


----------



## gabi (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> No, you don't get it. That Werrity was paid for by a consortium of defence contractors, hedge fund managers and assorted right wing loons was already bad enough. That sank him on its own.



No, I do get it. Cameron was willing to let all that slide from what I can see. They'd done a good job of obfuscation up to this point. Enough to let him off the hook.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

No, it's not about what Cameron was willing to let slide. There is a ministerial code. Fox broke it. That's that. The only reason Cameron hadn't sacked him yet was because he was waiting for the official report in order not to look like he was glad to be rid of him. But the press worked more quickly than the cabinet office, so its report is already in. In the papers!


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 14, 2011)

gabi said:


> No, I do get it. Cameron was willing to let all that slide from what I can see. They'd done a good job of obfuscation up to this point. Enough to let him off the hook.


A good job? What PR company do you work for?


----------



## Roadkill (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Nope. It's the end of Liam Fox as defence sec, that's all. Much as Fox's discomfort pleases me, this changes nothing of any substance.



Yup.

Seems to me that the timing of this is pretty neat.  Cameron didn't want to be seen to abandon Fox too quickly, since he's popular with some sections of the party, the old Tory right, who don't like Cameron very much.  Cameron bought time by ordering an investigation and waiting on the results.  Then Fox goes, which might take the momentum out of the investigation.  He's also gone on Friday afternoon, which is convenient since the investigation won't progress much over the weekend, but the headlines might have become ever more lurid and increasingly damaging.  My guess is that Cameron has made it quite clear to Fox that his position's untenable and got him to fall on his sword at perhaps the best possible time in damage-limitation terms.  Cameron might be a cunt of the highest order, but he's a shrewd politician.

Good riddance to Fox, though.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

It was a terrible, increasingly desperate job. As butchers so aptly put it, Fox 'threw his mate under the bus'. From at least that moment onwards, he was doomed.

And he will have known he was doomed from the moment the name Werrity started being bandied about. The man is an incredible fool.


----------



## JimW (Oct 14, 2011)

Would there have been any expectation of him to hang on for the "investigation" to make Cameron look better, and he's just thought fuck it as he's gone whatever? If so, could add to intra-part tension. Or was it just patently untenable to all at this point?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

JimW said:


> Or was it just patently untenable to all at this point?



This, I think. He did well to make it to Friday, tbh.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Oct 14, 2011)

gabi said:


> I disagree. He was maggie's annointed and therefore given a lot of leeway by cameron. the revelations so far were bad but not enough for a resignation, particularly for a man with an ego the size of his. there must be some hard proof lurking. of either his gay affair or the MoD paying for Werrity's first class flights/hotels.


I know Fox goes back to the days of Thatcher but wasn't he one of the ones put forward as a 'stalking horse' to set up an election for getting rid of her?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

Thatcher is politically irrelevant now. She cannot speak in public, so what she thinks about anything, if she's still able to think at all, counts for zero.

Can anyone remember a single mention of her name by any member of this government? It seems to me that they studiously avoid any mention of Thatcher or Major. A bit like Blair studiously avoiding ever using the word 'socialism'.


----------



## Roadkill (Oct 14, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I know Fox goes back to the days of Thatcher but wasn't he one of the ones put forward as a 'stalking horse' to set up an election for getting rid of her?



Nah, he wasn't elected to Parliament until 1992.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 14, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> "The Minister has done the decent thing for the country, and so has now resigned, enabling him to dedicate more time to his homophobia, I mean family".



If his integrity has been compromised, which he has no knowledge of, he offers his sincere apologies.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 14, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> I know Fox goes back to the days of Thatcher but wasn't he one of the ones put forward as a 'stalking horse' to set up an election for getting rid of her?


He doesn't go back that far!

For those unable to access the times stuff today - some of it is here


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 14, 2011)

dylans said:


> The web gets even stickier. In 2005 an Israeli lobby group called the British Israel Communications and Research Centre (BICOM) donated several thousand pounds to Fox's unsuccessful Conservative Party leadership campaign. The same lobby group also paid for the flights and hotel bill for Adam Werrity for him to attend a conference in Tel Aviv. The chairman of BICOM is a guy called Michael Lewis. Lewis donated £13000 pounds to the right wing so called"charity" called Atlantic Bridge and the sole director of Atlantic Bridge is Adam Werrity. ( I should say was because AB dissolved itself as a charity a few weeks ago)



Bicom are fucking scum.


----------



## Zabo (Oct 14, 2011)




----------



## gabi (Oct 14, 2011)




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## frogwoman (Oct 14, 2011)

that's a pretty scary expression he's got there


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

Fox drapes himself in Thatcher love because he's a right-wing loon. I doubt she even knows who he is in that photo.

"Mark, I've told you before that those loud shirts don't suit you. And where's your tie?'


----------



## gabi (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Fox drapes himself in Thatcher love because he's a right-wing loon. I doubt she even knows who he is in that photo.
> 
> "Mark, I've told you before that those loud shirts don't suit you. And where's your tie?'



i dont think you give the old crone quite enough credit. she's still sharp as fuck from all reports. she'll outlive us all. just for the lulz.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 14, 2011)

gabi said:


> i dont think you give the old crone quite enough credit. she's still sharp as fuck from all reports. she'll outlive us all. just for the lulz.


Most reports have her as suffering from sustained confusion, memory loss and inability to function independently. I know that might be sharp as fuck for you but...


----------



## Roadkill (Oct 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> that's a pretty scary expression he's got there



It's probably his cum face.

I wish I hadn't thought of that.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> No, it's not about what Cameron was willing to let slide. There is a ministerial code. Fox broke it. That's that. The only reason Cameron hadn't sacked him yet was because he was waiting for the official report in order not to look like he was glad to be rid of him. But the press worked more quickly than the cabinet office, so its report is already in. In the papers!


I think this can play badly for Cameron as it again makes him look like he is indecisive and unwilling to take action against his kind of people. Like hiring Coulson, refusing to fire Fox or even able to get him to give all the details it looks like he is soft on well connected tory types. It is not likely to be a 'big deal' for Cameron in the short term but next time something comes up about judgement it will be playing on his mind. The pure cynic in me would hope this would make him more prone to over do firing people in future. Had Fox had one iota of loyalty to Cameron I think this would have been a joint decision. "I have spoken with the Prime Minister and together we have decsided..."


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 14, 2011)

GAY!!1! shirt. Obv.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 14, 2011)

JimW said:


> Would there have been any expectation of him to hang on for the "investigation" to make Cameron look better, and he's just thought fuck it as he's gone whatever? If so, could add to intra-part tension. Or was it just patently untenable to all at this point?



i was wondering about this recently (after reading a (pretty crap) article about which argued that cameron had essentially let - or orchestrated - a right-wing semi-entryist coup take over the party, which I don't really go along with tbh as it implies that cameron and those around him are a party within a party with little sympathy with the rest of the members, and I don't entirely think that's true tbh - he had loads of support from the rank and file judging by conversations i had a few years ago about it, but i think that there are people even more right wing than cameron - who to begin with was pretty unpopular.

how much tension is there within the tory party and its members (and i mean seriously)? I know there is genuine disquiet by tory *supporters* and some of the rank and file about the extent of the cuts that are going on - and of course a lot of the tory right think they don't go far enough. Can anyone tell me any more about it though? Is there really that much internal dissent within the tories about their "programme" - because it doesn't seem like any of them who disagree (either from the left or right) are really that willing to cause trouble for the government


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

ferrelhadley said:


> I think this can play badly for Cameron as it again makes him look like he is indecisive and unwilling to take action against his kind of people. Like hiring Coulson, refusing to fire Fox or even able to get him to give all the details it looks like he is soft on well connected tory types. It is not likely to be a 'big deal' for Cameron in the short term but next time something comes up about judgement it will be playing on his mind. The pure cynic in me would hope this would make him more prone to over do firing people in future. Had Fox had one iota of loyalty to Cameron I think this would have been a joint decision. "I have spoken with the Prime Minister and together we have decsided..."



I'm not so sure it is so bad for Cameron. He backed Fox only on condition that the report came back clean. It didn't, so Fox has gone. Cameron can with reason say that what has come out in the papers would have been in the report and he would have fired Fox at that moment.

TBH, Cameron would appear to have played this the best way he could.

Coulson was a misjudgement. I don't think this was.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 14, 2011)

So is all the very very murky stuff that was starting to come out over the past two days going to investigated?

I seriously doubt it. labour should call for a full enquiry into what Fox and his neo-con mates have been up to.

They wont do anything of the sort of course.

It'll now be 'time to move on' and all that. Wonder if the media will drop this now.

Just heard on radio 4 that some tory mps are complaining that he was hounded out of his job by the nasty media - what planet are these goons on?

(I suspect its planet 'how dare you question us doing whatever the fuck we like' ).


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 14, 2011)

So which headbanger is going to replace him?


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 14, 2011)

Prob the ex-Guardian leader writer.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> i was wondering about this recently (after reading a (pretty crap) article about which argued that cameron had essentially let - or orchestrated - a right-wing semi-entryist coup take over the party, which I don't really go along with tbh as it implies that cameron and those around him are a party within a party with little sympathy with the rest of the members, and I don't entirely think that's true tbh - he had loads of support from the rank and file judging by conversations i had a few years ago about it, but i think that there are people even more right wing than cameron - who to begin with was pretty unpopular.
> 
> how much tension is there within the tory party and its members (and i mean seriously)? I know there is genuine disquiet by tory *supporters* and some of the rank and file about the extent of the cuts that are going on - and of course a lot of the tory right think they don't go far enough. Can anyone tell me any more about it though? Is there really that much internal dissent within the tories about their "programme" - because it doesn't seem like any of them who disagree (either from the left or right) are really that willing to cause trouble for the government



tbh I would have thought most tories would be pretty delighted with the programme so far. They've lost the argument over certain social issues, like gay rights, but otherwise, they must be very pleased that the coalition govt has lurched to the right of either the tories' or the libdems' election manifestos.

And they will understand, and appreciate, how Cameron has negotiated a 'coalition' that gives zero power to the libdems. That was cleverly done, it has to be said - Clegg could have held out for a position of genuine power, such as home sec, or even health or education sec, but no, he fell for the 'deputy leader' scam like that moron Prescott before him.


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 14, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Prob the ex-Guardian leader writer.


----------



## Roadkill (Oct 14, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> So which headbanger is going to replace him?



Philip Hammond's name seems to be in the frame.


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## JimW (Oct 14, 2011)

No chance of David Davis as suitably hard right? Or is he still sulking in his tent?


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## frogwoman (Oct 14, 2011)

Is that really true though?


littlebabyjesus said:


> tbh I would have thought most tories would be pretty delighted with the programme so far. They've lost the argument over certain social issues, like gay rights, but otherwise, *they must be very pleased that the coalition govt has lurched to the right of either the tories' or the libdems' election manifestos.*



I'm not sure that that's true for all of them tbh.

and there've been tories who have no problems with gay rights, and have been for a long time.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

Well I'm guessing. I don't actually _know_ any tories. 

But they have lurched to the right of either manifesto. I can't see too much for the tories to complain about.


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 14, 2011)

Roadkill said:


> Philip Hammond's name seems to be in the frame.



Yeah, that's a possiblity. There's always Owen Paterson, the current NI Secretary. He's a member of the Cornerstone Group.


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 14, 2011)

JimW said:


> No chance of David Davis as suitably hard right? Or is he still sulking in his tent?


I think he's still sulking.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 14, 2011)

You probably do but you just don't know it.

My grandma's been a diehard tory at least as long as i've been alive (altho i don't think she's a member, tho she was once iirc) and recently even she is starting to complain about the tories!


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 14, 2011)

JimW said:


> No chance of David Davis as suitably hard right? Or is he still sulking in his tent?


Surely you mean David Davis as the last great civil libertarian?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> You probably do but you just don't know it.
> 
> My grandma's been a diehard tory at least as long as i've been alive (altho i don't think she's a member, tho she was once iirc) and recently even she is starting to complain about the tories!


By that I meant tory party members/activists. They're the ones who loved Fox.


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## ferrelhadley (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I'm not so sure it is so bad for Cameron. He backed Fox only on condition that the report came back clean. It didn't, so Fox has gone.


The report has not come back yet. He had Fox in front of him to explain his doings with his mate and failed to get the full disclosure from Fox on things like funding for him. He appears to have trusted Fox on his word. Its yet again trusting the wrong people.

Looks weak.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 14, 2011)

I knew a couple when I was at uni. Don't forget a few years ago Cameron was seen as representing a new era in the party, an end to slease, maybe even slightly more left wing (the tory activist im thinking of actually said this to me!)


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

No, he clearly didn't trust Fox on his word - hence the report. As soon as the report was asked for, Fox was doomed, in fact. It was an absurd situation already. If Fox himself at any point this week genuinely thought he would survive this, he is seriously deluded.
@ fh

And also, effectively the report really has come out. It came out in today's papers. The press worked more quickly than the cabinet office, that's all.


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## JimW (Oct 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Surely you mean David Davis as the last great civil libertarian?


He's got the required resigning skills, give him a shot (neck, please).


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 14, 2011)

Many on the tory right cant stand cameron and blame him for not winning an overall majority.
They think that this was because the party was not being right wing enough - despite the previous abject failures of William Hauge and Michael Howard at the polls.
They dont like the touchy-feely we're 'cool with gays and the ethnics' stuff. They want more eurosceptic redmeat and a far more vigourous assault on things like workers rights ('red tape'). They are stll in thrall to the memory of Thatcher.
Liam Fox was one of theirs and they will be gutted to loose him.


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## dylans (Oct 14, 2011)

Cameron has played this well. If Fox had gone on Monday, he would have issued a statement of regret and retired to the back benches as a martyr and a future cause for the right.  As it is, Cameron has been able to play the "we wait for the investigation" game and watch his old rival get battered by the press for a week wearing that stupid fucking grin. Fox is finished now. Presumably more dirt will come out in the Sunday papers and it will run and run and he will never get over it. If Cameron had dumped him on Monday, the Tory right would have held him up as a martyr and he would have been a hero. Now they can't fault Cameron and enough dirt has come out on Fox to ruin him and kill any potential trouble from him in future.
For those of us with no interest in the machinations of Tory infighting, we can hope that the real issues and questions are pursued by the press, in particular what the fuck right wing pressure groups with links to Israel were doing at the heart of the defence ministry and what damage did they do


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

Maybe, kt. With regards to the euroscepticism, Cameron is fortunate that the euro crisis has effectively neutralised the debate within the tory party. He can point to a two-track Europe and state proudly that 'we're in the second track and staying here'. Europe is virtually a non-issue politically now, or it would be if Cameron were not making noises about withdrawing from the Human Rights Act. The fact that he is making those noises must please the tory right immensely.

Surely most tories are just delighted to be IN POWER!


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## frogwoman (Oct 14, 2011)

What's happened to the "tory reform group" ("left wing" tories) btw? the lad i knew at uni was involved in that. He was a bit of a cock though.


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 14, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> He doesn't go back that far!
> 
> For those unable to access the times stuff today - some of it is here


Oops! for some reason I got Fox confused with Sir Anthony Meyer. The old grey cells are dying fast. Thanks for the link to the Guido summary of the Times article. Werrity seems to be the man who most needs investigation once Fox is thrown on the rubbish heap.


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> What's happened to the "tory reform group" ("left wing" tories) btw? the lad i knew at uni was involved in that. He was a bit of a cock though.


still going strong, Ken Clarke is its President


----------



## elbows (Oct 14, 2011)




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## frogwoman (Oct 14, 2011)

lol


belboid said:


> still going strong, Ken Clarke is its President


lol, really radical then


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Oct 14, 2011)

It seems that Fox was a thoroughly good egg to judge from the very respectful post mortem being put out right now on BBC R4.

BBC doing its usual bootlicking.


----------



## belboid (Oct 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> lol
> 
> lol, really radical then


bizarrely, Michael Howard appears to be a member.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 14, 2011)

belboid said:


> bizarrely, Michael Howard appears to be a member.


----------



## Lock&Light (Oct 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> lol, really radical then



For a Tory, Clarke is almost left-wing.


----------



## Zabo (Oct 14, 2011)

I'd dearly love to know who it is that amends the Wiki entries so fast. Mrs. Fox?

I wonder if Radio 4 Question Time tonight will be interesting? Probably not.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Oct 14, 2011)

Roadkill said:


> Philip Hammond's name seems to be in the frame.





> Philip Hammond has been named the new defence secretary, the Press Association reports. Hammond will be replaced as transport secretary by Justine Greening.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> It seems that Fox was a thoroughly good egg to judge from the very respectful post mortem being put out right now on BBC R4.
> 
> BBC doing its usual bootlicking.


tbf, Newsnight put the boot in last night.


----------



## agricola (Oct 14, 2011)

Interesting replacements to say the least - Hammond hasnt exactly kicked arse at the DoT, and Greening is a nonentity.


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## London_Calling (Oct 14, 2011)

Main thing is Hammond will play the game with the defence industry - career establishment wanabee.


----------



## audiotech (Oct 14, 2011)

..


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 14, 2011)

Hocus Eye. said:


> It seems that Fox was a thoroughly good egg to judge from the very respectful post mortem being put out right now on BBC R4.



This is off topic but R4 really are Establishment Propaganda Central at the moment. I swear to god the first person they got on to 'analyse' Cameron's conference speech the other day was some Tory minister - I forget which one - mostly I remember them by the pattern of bloodstains but you can't see 'em on the radio. Strangely this chap thought the speech was well excellent and showcased Cameron's wicked leadership abilities. There may have been some 'balancing' viewpoint after this but I switched off. There's only so much bullshit you can take in one day.


----------



## big eejit (Oct 14, 2011)

fox in bin by Dru Marland, on Flickr


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 14, 2011)

Nice one Dru


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 14, 2011)

Zabo said:


> And now we sit and wait for the dirty washing to be aired.



The beginning of an endless procession _a la_ Major's government, where they just hunker down as their ranks are thinned, knowing that they don't have a majority and are ever more reliant on carrying their coalition partners and the little parties with them.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 14, 2011)

One down, 22 to go.

So how many other Cabinet Ministers are on the take?


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## Sue (Oct 14, 2011)

'Media witchhunt.' According to some Tory MP on R4 now. Saying how Liam Fox definitely shouldn't have gone and poor him, not having the same employment rights as normal people. FFS.

ETA And apparently if we're not careful 'people will get the policitians they deserve.' (Again on R4 where they're going on about what a great turn Liam Fox was.)  It seems things can only get better...


----------



## Quartz (Oct 14, 2011)

JimW said:


> No chance of David Davis as suitably hard right? Or is he still sulking in his tent?



Cameron won't appoint a rival.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Oct 14, 2011)

What are the Tory right going to demand in return for losing their man? Scrapping of the Human Rights ban maybe. How would the Lib Dems react to that?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Oct 14, 2011)

Are they in a position to demand much? Their man fucked up. Nobody else to blame but his own moronic self.


----------



## killer b (Oct 14, 2011)

goldenecitrone said:


> How would the Lib Dems react to that?


i doubt anyone cares anymore. certainly not the tories.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 14, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Are they in a position to demand much? Their man fucked up. Nobody else to blame but his own moronic self.



Yep - not only that but the Tory Right are getting most of what they want under this government anyway, it's already a hard right government that is dismantling the welfare state, the Right can swallow the moderate social liberalism in return for big gains elsewhere.


----------



## London_Calling (Oct 15, 2011)

At least he can now spend more time with his friends wife.


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 15, 2011)

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/j...is-a-serious-loss-to-cameron-and-the-country/
Aw Janet Daly's not happy,that makes me very happy ,a sad loss to the country?? In the same way the Black Death was I suppose


----------



## editor (Oct 15, 2011)

Gingerman said:


> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/j...is-a-serious-loss-to-cameron-and-the-country/
> Aw Janet Daly's not happy,that makes me very happy ,a sad loss to the country?? In the same way the Black Death was I suppose









  She can fuck off for starters, whoever she is.


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 15, 2011)

editor said:


> She can fuck off for starters, whoever she is.


Right Wing Yank neo-con jorno  living over here often seen making a fool of herself on QT


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 15, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2010/aug/23/liam-fox-medal-of-honor-ban
Still Foxy did give us one good laugh while he was at MOD


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 15, 2011)

Shoulda given Mod job to Lord Pantsdown,ex-SBS man,could kill Cameron with his bare hands if CallmeDave stepped outa line.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 15, 2011)

Ugh Janet Daly *shudder*


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 15, 2011)

editor said:


> She can fuck off for starters, whoever she is.



Michelle Phiefer in Stardust?


----------



## _angel_ (Oct 15, 2011)

Brainaddict said:


> This is off topic but R4 really are Establishment Propaganda Central at the moment. I swear to god the first person they got on to 'analyse' Cameron's conference speech the other day was some Tory minister - I forget which one - mostly I remember them by the pattern of bloodstains but you can't see 'em on the radio. Strangely this chap thought the speech was well excellent and showcased Cameron's wicked leadership abilities. There may have been some 'balancing' viewpoint after this but I switched off. There's only so much bullshit you can take in one day.


"The left wing bias at the BBC" lol.


----------



## dylans (Oct 15, 2011)

> *Janet Daly.*  Too much embarassment, too many revelations, too much distraction from the serious business of US neo cons and the Israeli Government as a whole



Edited for her


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 15, 2011)

Just finished watching last night's Have I Got For You, they certainly had some fun with this story, as they said it's the first time it's been worth watching a Fox News story.


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 15, 2011)

Let's hope this story gains more traction and there's more dirt to come
http://www.spinwatch.org/blogs-main...our-of-lansleys-private-healthcare-supporters


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 15, 2011)

Tebbit chips in with this



> It is a matter of great regret for me that Liam Fox has been brought to resign from his post as Defence Secretary.  He has handled the difficult task of sorting out the mess that Labour had left and coping with cuts in the defemce budget.
> The sadness is that he seems to have been let down by an injudicious friendship with a man he trusted.  I very much doubt that there has been a breach of national security, but the affair called into question Liam Fox's judgement.
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/n...liam-fox-is-a-victim-of-his-own-carelessness/


 
Notice how he repeats the line "the mess that Labour left", as if that's going to make things better. The Tories are fucked.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 15, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Tebbit chips in with this
> 
> Notice how he repeats the line "the mess that Labour left", as if that's going to make things better. The Tories are fucked.


They're not fucked yet. For god's sake most non-politically-active people I talk to still believe they are 'dealing with the deficit that Labour left'. Most of the mainstream media are broadcasting on their behalf 24 hours a day. They're a long way from fucked in my opinion. This is a minor hiccup.


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 15, 2011)

Brainaddict said:


> They're not fucked yet. For god's sake most non-politically-active people I talk to still believe they are 'dealing with the deficit that Labour left'. Most of the mainstream media are broadcasting on their behalf 24 hours a day. They're a long way from fucked in my opinion. This is a minor hiccup.


Yeah, we'll see. But with Lansley's connections to private healthcare companies, Letwin dumping papers in litter bins and Coulson's departure. This doesn't look good for the Tories. Oh, and we mustn't forget Laws, who was forced to leave in the first month.

"We're clearing up the mess that Labour left" rings hollow. It also points to a lack of substance on their part.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 15, 2011)

Brainaddict said:


> They're not fucked yet. For god's sake most non-politically-active people I talk to still believe they are 'dealing with the deficit that Labour left'. Most of the mainstream media are broadcasting on their behalf 24 hours a day. They're a long way from fucked in my opinion. This is a minor hiccup.


 How come their approval rating has been terrible (-20 at least) for what a year now? Of course they're not fucked, but don't imagine everyone is going around applauding them. And for the love of god, please please please do not introduce pointless divisions like active and non-politically active people - not unless you specifically want to organise resistance to austerity and your wider politics on the basis of there being an enlightened elite and the rest of us anyway.


----------



## GEN.Eccentric (Oct 15, 2011)

They are not 'fucked'. The last Tory government was one chinless sleaze fest after another and they lasted 15 years.


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## butchersapron (Oct 15, 2011)

There is also a difference between people being dissatisfied with them and their removal from govt - two very different things. And to tie any opposition to the latter is to ensure it happens all over again ina few years with labour in the hot seat next time.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 15, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Tebbit chips in with this
> 
> Notice how he repeats the line "the mess that Labour left", as if that's going to make things better. The Tories are fucked.


 
I thought tebbit was a rampant homophobe? I suppose support for the party trumps personal bigotry


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## nino_savatte (Oct 15, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought tebbit was a rampant homophobe? I suppose support for the party trumps personal bigotry


They've got to appear united. I'm just waiting for Europe to rear its ugly head.


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## Poo Flakes (Oct 15, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought tebbit was a rampant homophobe? I suppose support for the party trumps personal bigotry



Tebbit is the type of cunt specific to academia and politics where everyone has a very high opinion of themselves, and crave attention.




			
				Norman Tebbit said:
			
		

> What now worries me... My proposal is that



You can tell no-one around him has ever told him to "fuck off" or "shut the fuck up".

The only thing I do like is he refers to commenters in his column... e.g.




			
				Norman Tebbit said:
			
		

> Whilst some of you, like Evil Deceiving Oligarch and UK Debt Slave, believe the EU is unbreakable, Heunggoner and Jeremy Poynton agreed that it will crash and burn, if indeed it is not already broken. I take that view too, but fear the damage it will cause when it does....I am grateful to revkevblue for saving me the trouble of explaining about corruption in Brussels to diogenesx



Someone start writing eurosceptic, neoliberal diatribes under the alias "proszek do dupy" (Basic Translation: "Powder made from human shit" in Polish) just for the lolz.




			
				Norman Tebbit said:
			
		

> As ever I will not respond to personal abuse



I found that out the hard, time-consuming way.


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## SpineyNorman (Oct 15, 2011)

gabi said:


>


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 15, 2011)

GEN.Eccentric said:


> They are not 'fucked'. The last Tory government was one chinless sleaze fest after another and they lasted 15 years.



To be punctiliously historically-accurate though, they lasted 18, not 15, and most of the sleaze became visible in the last 7-8 years of their run.


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## elbows (Oct 16, 2011)

The neon charity stuff sounds even more sinister when the right combination of details are thrown onto a page.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/15/liam-fox-atlantic-bridge?newsfeed=true

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/15/liam-fox-resignation-exposes-tories

I wish it could claim a few more scalps but I don't see that happening unless something new & juicy emerges.


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## teqniq (Oct 16, 2011)

From the Indy:



> Adam Werritty, the man at the centre of the Liam Fox cash-for-access scandal, has been involved in an audacious plot to topple Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, it was claimed last night.
> 
> The self-styled adviser to Mr Fox, whose close personal friendship with the former defence secretary led to Mr Fox's downfall, has visited Iran on several occasions and met Iranian opposition groups in Washington and London over the past few years, The Independent on Sunday has learnt.
> Mr Werritty, 33, has been debriefed by MI6 about his travels and is so highly regarded by the Israeli intelligence service Mossad – who thought he was Mr Fox's chief of staff – that he was able to arrange meetings at the highest levels of the Israeli government, multiple sources have told The IoS.



http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...and-his-ties-to-irans-opposition-2371352.html

which chimes with Craig Murray's allegations posted earlier, also he mentioned it on R4 but it was apparently edited out:



> Peter Oborne managed to get me on a BBC Radio 4 programme he was guest hosting, _Week in Westminster_, and presumably due to his involvement I was, for the first time in three years, not cancelled at the last moment. You can listen here by clicking on the first “listen now” button. I am on briefly after about 9 minutes, but it is all worth hearing.
> 
> I have repeatedly recommended Oborne’s books _The Rise of Political Lying _and _The Triumph of the Political Class,_ both essential reading.
> Incidentally my single sentence reference to Mossad was edited out, but I think my meaning remains clear.


He's also got a piece in the Mail on Sunday, link to be found on his page
http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/
Something needs to be done about this, but best I don't get too optimistic about it. Here's hoping though.


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## elbows (Oct 16, 2011)

Privatised coup plots do not seem to be the best advert for the 'efficiency' of private enterprise


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## GEN.Eccentric (Oct 16, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> To be punctiliously historically-accurate though, they lasted 18, not 15, and most of the sleaze became visible in the last 7-8 years of their run.



Yes I can count  I would say they were fucked in the last 3 years though. Arguably due to the sleaze, or the increasingly damaging reporting of it and not just in the Mirror. The likes of Alan Clark got away with it for years though.

I think people take it for granted that Tories are classist, racist, homophobic arms dealing sociopaths (and seemingly hypocrites in both Clark and Fox's case) who have their snouts in the trough while everyone else is getting royally screwed over. Or at least the fuckwits who vote for them. Its like Berlusconi, how the fuck can he get away with it? because its just what some people expect, maybe even admire them for.


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## eoin_k (Oct 16, 2011)

Am I the only person who thinks he looks like the outcome of a one night stand between Barry Humphries and Tony Blair:


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## weltweit (Oct 16, 2011)

He has a rabbit caught in the headlights sort of rictus grin, and caught in the headlights he was!!


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## Lock&Light (Oct 16, 2011)

eoin_k said:


> Am I the only person who thinks he looks like the outcome of a one night stand between Barry Humphries and Tony Blair:



You might not be, but I hope you are the only one who imagines it's worth mentioning.


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## claphamboy (Oct 19, 2011)

So, Fox is all upset because he was hunted down & exposed by a media witch-hunt. 

Note to Fox - if you hadn't acted like a complete and absolute dodgy fucking cunt, the media could never have hunted you down.

Tosser.


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## frogwoman (Oct 19, 2011)

eoin_k said:


> Am I the only person who thinks he looks like the outcome of a one night stand between Barry Humphries and Tony Blair:



oh my god my eyes


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## SpineyNorman (Oct 19, 2011)

gabi said:


>



Just noticed the chain to the left of Maggie. She's shackled to that at night to stop her going out and feeding on the blood of poor children.


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## Fedayn (Oct 19, 2011)

This is Fox weasly, utterly hollow and frankly forced apology this afternoon. It's utter hubris....

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...-Commons-statement-in-full.html#disqus_thread

And a wee piece in The Telegraph this evening...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pol...terial-code-when-really-he-needed-Jeeves.html

Quite sharp and rather funny, but making the obvious point....


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## teqniq (Oct 19, 2011)




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## Poo Flakes (Oct 19, 2011)

> Two weeks ago I visited Misurata in Libya and I met a man who showed my photographs of his dead children. A few days later I resigned from the cabinet. One was an unbearable tragedy. The other was a deep personal disappointment. I begin with that necessary sense of proportion.



"In 1941 the Germans had killed 1,100,000 jews.  Last week, I <insert some crime>. I begin that necessary sense of proportion."


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## elbows (Oct 19, 2011)

What a shitty resignation speech, the fool has made his journey back from the political wilderness even harder now. And I note that Fox couldn't help but mention Harvey Boulter in his resignation speech.



> "It was particularly concerning that Harvey Boulter, present at the Dubai meeting and subsequently the defendant in a blackmail case, was treated so unquestioningly."



More fool you for not having a civil servant present when you met him then, Fox.

And of course Boulter couldn't resist responding:



> Boulter rejected Fox's criticism. He said: "It is most certainly not fair or correct for Fox to again brand me as a blackmailer. He knows very well that I was trying to settle a legal dispute between 3M and Porton/Ploughshare (part of his former ministry) … How is that possibly blackmail – this is a negotiation.
> "The fact Fox is continuing to pursue me I think makes him look more than a little silly.
> "If Fox had not issued an incorrect statement in the first place, which the Guardian forced him to correct publicly, then he would not have exposed his adviser to scrutiny."



http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/19/liam-fox-apologises-mps-attacks-media?intcmp=239

I love it when two characters with no redeeming features collide. I hadn't even heard of Boulter before this Fox stuff erupted but his CV & email to 3M was enough for me to judge him as a complete shit. I look forward to the court case, another event which may lead Fox to regret not having officials present at their meeting.


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## agricola (Oct 19, 2011)

A dreadful speech, but almost certainly few in the Westminster bubble (and fewer still who are actually / potentially in power) will have disagreed with it.   After all, what Fox did is only what a lot of current, shadow and former government ministers have done, and probably are doing.


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 20, 2011)

The twat really really doesn't get it does he?


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

He might get it. But what's he going to do? Tell the truth?

'Yes, I used my position to further my interests and those of my best mate, promoting an agenda entirely independently from the govt and lining our pockets at the same time.' He's hardly going to admit that he's a dishonest scumbag.


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## Kaka Tim (Oct 20, 2011)

As a politician he should know that, in his poistion, the best course of action is to sound humble and contrite - not puff himself up with self righteous indignity at the way he's been treated. It reveals a degree of arrogance so extreme as to suggest that he is utterly divorced from reality.

It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that these vile cunts are in charge of the country.


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## Poo Flakes (Oct 20, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> As a politician he should know that, in his poistion, the best course of action is to sound humble and contrite - not puff himself up with self righteous indignity at the way he's been treated. It suggests a degree of arrogance so extreme as to suggest that he is utterly divorced from reality.
> 
> It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that these vile cunts are in charge of the country.



Exactly, even for the usual Westminster bullshit this was fucking rank.


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## littlebabyjesus (Oct 20, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> As a politician he should know that, in his poistion, the best course of action is to sound humble and contrite - not puff himself up with self righteous indignity at the way he's been treated. It reveals a degree of arrogance so extreme as to suggest that he is utterly divorced from reality.
> 
> It would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that these vile cunts are in charge of the country.



You can't sound too humble, though. That would be a sign that you actually genuinely thought what you were caught doing was badly wrong. He's still taking the line that he 'blurred' the boundaries in a 'misjudgement'.


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## twistedAM (Oct 20, 2011)

He's a strange man. What the hell is he doing wearing one of Thatcher's blouses? I suppose they have do they a similar breat size so it's not a bad fit.


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## gavman (Oct 20, 2011)

Poo Flakes said:


> Osbourne - forgetting the cocaine and prostitutes, which hardly tarnishes his name in my book, caught on a yacht with a Russian oligarch shortly before meeting.... Mandelson!
> Lord Strathclyde - all sorts
> 
> Actually the only guys to suffer from scandals was David Laws and Vince Cable. The latter's shafting is looking even more stupid considering what has been happening to Murdoch, whereas the former's was hardly as bad as this whole Liam Fox bullshit.
> ...


or the israeli state; a veritable beacon of efficiency in comparison to the mod


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## William of Walworth (Oct 20, 2011)

Little as most here must (correctly) dislike Simon Hoggart's Grauniard Parliamentary sketch most days, there remains some stuff worth laughing at, or at least reading, in today's .....


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## ferrelhadley (Oct 21, 2011)

Anyone else remember the death of the Nimrods.

And its replacement?



> In July this year, Mr Fox told parliament that the Ministry of Defence would go ahead with plans to award a contract to L-3 to provide the MoD with new “Rivet Joint” aircraft.
> The MoD said on Thursday that the decision to select the programme was taken under the previous government and the contractor was chosen by the US government.
> L-3’s contract had not previously been publicly disclosed, however.
> One Tory MP who has been defending Mr Fox this week said that any evidence that Mr Hintze had interests in defence companies would put Mr Fox in a difficult position.


I could not find a reference to this deal on this thread, so apologies if its a repost

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e6d083c0-f5c7-11e0-824e-00144feab49a.html#axzz1bMmWhLRC

From L3's wiki page


> In 2010 it was announced that L3's Special Support Programs Division had been suspended by the United States Air Force from doing any contract work for the US federal government. A US Department of Defense investigation had reportedly found that the company had, "used a highly sensitive government computer network to collect competitive business information for its own use." A US federal criminal investigation is ongoing.[7] The temporary suspension was resolved on July 27, 2010.


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## teqniq (Oct 21, 2011)

Dodgy deals r us.

In the words of Basil Fawtly: "I wouldn't trust these people to wipe their own bottoms".


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## teqniq (Oct 27, 2011)

More scum surfaces:



> A secretive donor in the Liam Fox affair who gained access to a defence minister for a private meeting is a defence lobbyist who has used a false name and given the impression he worked for British intelligence, Guardian inquiries have established.
> The lobbyist, Stephen Crouch, was granted a meeting with the arms sales minister, Gerald Howarth, at the request of Howarth's boss, Fox, the then defence secretary, after secretly donating a reported £20,000 to fund the expenses of Fox's aide Adam Werritty. This has led to a call for Sir Philip Mawer, the parliamentary ombudsman, to mount an investigation.
> Crouch, a Tory donor and activist, has links with former special forces officers such as Tony Buckingham, who now runs Heritage Oil, and Tim Spicer, who runs the Aegis security company in Iraq. Crouch is on record lobbying for contracts in Iraq, in association with a former MI6 officer, Rupert Bowen, and a former UK ambassador to the Middle East, Julian Walker......




http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2011/oct/26/donor-liam-fox-defence-lobbyist-stephen-crouch


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## ferrelhadley (Nov 13, 2011)

Liam Fox's adviser Adam Werritty facing questions over 'missing' £60,000. 



> _The Sunday Telegraph_ can reveal that Mr Werritty is now facing a formal demand from lawyers representing Mr Hintze to repay the cash he requested to pay winding up costs of the charity.
> Mr Werritty, Atlantic Bridge's only British employee and who was paid more than £90,000 in wages and expenses, has been warned that he could face legal action if the money is not returned.
> The 33-year-old businessman is already facing a possible police investigation over how he used cash given to another organisation, Pargav, amid allegations he used it as a slush fund to pay for international travel, five star hotels and hand made suits and bar bills at a lap dancing club.
> Now it can been revealed that acting as Atlantic Bridge's executive director, Mr Werritty asked Mr Hintze to donate £60,000 to the organisation last August during a period when the work of the charity, set up to foster the so-called "special relationship" between Britain and America, had been formally suspended.
> ...


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## Casually Red (Nov 13, 2011)

gabi said:


>


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## ferrelhadley (Nov 13, 2011)

'Poofter'?


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## greenfield (Nov 13, 2011)




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## OneStrike (Dec 5, 2011)

Don't know if this is the best place to post this, tomorrows Independent is leading with an expose of Lobbyists from Pottinger caught bragging of their direct influence over Cameron and co, the dark arts


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