# Doctor Who - the 50th anniversary special



## Santino (Oct 17, 2013)




----------



## Stigmata (Oct 17, 2013)

Shame Ecclestone's such a grumpy sod


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 17, 2013)

Hurts a living legend. I watched all of Immortals just because he was in it (slow motion gore as well though). He totally out-zuesed orlando bloom.

be interesting to see him in the tardis being all war veteran like


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 17, 2013)

When? Is it far away enough from Christmas to be less mawkish than seasonal specials? How long will it be?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 17, 2013)

23rd Nov


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 17, 2013)

baddies speculation time.


who will it be? rassilon? Because if you have a time lord as a main baddie that opens up the option to bring allo the other baddies in plus some historical ones as well, like romans, or vikings.. Thats what they did for the last multi doctor extravaganza


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 17, 2013)

am looking forward to it , thers 1 particularly interesting shot of DT, been released


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 17, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> baddies speculation time.
> 
> 
> who will it be? rassilon? Because if you have a time lord as a main baddie that opens up the option to bring allo the other baddies in plus some historical ones as well, like romans, or vikings.. Thats what they did for the last multi doctor extravaganza


 


Spoiler



zygons and daleks have been confirmed... but it could be lies


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 17, 2013)

I think we can at least conform one of those, because how are you going to have war doc outside of the timelock- we know who the war was against so...


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 17, 2013)

Fingers crossed for Bertie Bassett


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 17, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Fingers crossed for Bertie Bassett



but he was destroyed by his own fondant


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 17, 2013)

yes but if it is a Time Lord baddie he'd just snatch bertie from before that happened


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 17, 2013)

better stock up on lemonade then.


----------



## Balbi (Oct 17, 2013)

Hurt's wearing Eccleston's coat int'ee?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 19, 2013)

http://m.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/doc...w-trailer-to-air-tonight-before-atlantis.html


----------



## Santino (Oct 19, 2013)

How dare anyone suggest I'm watching Strictly Come Dancing just to make sure I see the Doctor Who trailer?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2013)

i'll wait till its on youtube before I watch brucies retirement gig


----------



## Lord Camomile (Oct 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> brucies retirement gig


If only.


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 19, 2013)

Trailer: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01jzhz3


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Oct 19, 2013)

http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/article/11-things-we-loved-in-the-doctor-who-50-year-trailer/

Good trailer I thought


----------



## Kuso (Oct 19, 2013)

REALLY looking forward to it.  This then the Xmas special with Matt Smith's exit should hopefully be a return to form.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2013)

Smith's had his moments!


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 20, 2013)

Smith is one of my favourites, a good interpretation of the character


----------



## mentalchik (Oct 20, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Hurts a living legend. I watched all of Immortals just because he was in it (slow motion gore as well though).* He totally out-zuesed orlando bloom.*





orlando bloom ?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2013)

mentalchik said:


> orlando bloom ?



my mistake, luke evans


----------



## mentalchik (Oct 20, 2013)




----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 21, 2013)

What is he running from then? Yawn. The impossible day.


----------



## Santino (Oct 21, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What is he running from then? Yawn. The impossible day.



Don't watch it. Don't return to this thread. Read a book or something.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 21, 2013)

Santino said:


> Don't watch it. Don't return to this thread. Read a book or something.


Oh boo hoo.


----------



## Kuso (Oct 21, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Smith's had his moments!



I've LOVED Matt Smith as the Doctor, well, LOVED his first series as DW, then less and less.  It wasn't his fault.  I really liked Amy to start too, but the last while it's just been weak.  Still undecided about Clara, liked her to start, then didn't, then did when I got the whole 'impossible girl' ting.

I just meant that a shake up in the cast might be good for the series.  AND that the 50th anniversary and his exit should be cracking shows, especially seeing as his exit finally ties up the whole 'silence/ Trenzalor' story


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 22, 2013)

http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/a...doctor-to-be-shown-in-3d-in-cinemas-worldwide


----------



## ruffneck23 (Oct 22, 2013)

Santino said:


> Don't watch it. Don't return to this thread. Read a book or something.


 

you should know by now, no Dr who thread is complete without AS cussing it


----------



## youngian (Oct 22, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Shame Ecclestone's such a grumpy sod



He obviously doesn't want to lower his artistic credibilty. Or perhaps he's busy filming the sequel to GI Joe. Tennant knows there is a certain good natured baggage that comes with the role and is game for it. And I don't see Ecclestone getting asked to play Richard II or Hamlet. 

Its a shame they don't give Paul McGann another crack for this episode. That TV movie was iffy but there is a lot of goodwill towards his Doctor and he has said he's up for doing it again.


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 22, 2013)

youngian said:


> He obviously doesn't want to lower his artistic credibilty. Or perhaps he's busy filming the sequel to GI Joe. Tennant knows there is a certain good natured baggage that comes with the role and is game for it. And I don't see Ecclestone getting asked to play Richard II or Hamlet.
> 
> Its a shame they don't give Paul McGann another crack for this episode. That TV movie was iffy but there is a lot of goodwill towards his Doctor and he has said he's up for doing it again.


McGann has done a ton of audio adventures as the Dr.  They often turn up on BBC Radio 4 Extra.


----------



## Bungle73 (Oct 22, 2013)

In fact one of those was a  version of the infamously incomplete Tom Baker story "Shada".  Only seen that on the BBC website some years ago, though.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 22, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/a...doctor-to-be-shown-in-3d-in-cinemas-worldwide



I really want to go and see it on the big screen!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 22, 2013)

youngian said:


> He obviously doesn't want to lower his artistic credibilty. Or perhaps he's busy filming the sequel to GI Joe. Tennant knows there is a certain good natured baggage that comes with the role and is game for it. And I don't see Ecclestone getting asked to play Richard II or Hamlet.



Ecclestone has his reasons. He had a bad time at Dr Who and was not treated well. Not a lot of people like to work with other people that they do not get on with. I think he has shown a heck of a lot of goodwill just turning up to discuss the role (and ultimately turn it down) in person. He has also gotten a lot of flack for leaving early, and kept his mouth shut, despite it being revealed later that it was not down to him. 
He genuinely appears to be quite fond of who and his involvement, but would you go back to work for someone who screwed you over and you didn't get on with if you didn't have to? I know quite a few people I would never work for again, even if it was my dream job, as I know they would turn that dream into a nightmare.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Oct 22, 2013)

youngian said:


> Its a shame they don't give Paul McGann another crack for this episode. That TV movie was iffy but there is a lot of goodwill towards his Doctor and he has said he's up for doing it again.



I'm suprised. I'm sure he'd be up for it, the fans would love it, and I would've thought he'd fit into a story concerning the time war a lot more than the first doctor


----------



## Kaka Tim (Oct 23, 2013)

youngian said:


> I don't see Ecclestone getting asked to play Richard II or Hamlet.



Funnily enough I saw Eccleston play hamlet at the west yorkshire playhouse just after it had been announced that he'd got the role as doctor who. He was excellent. Afterwards I gave him my target paperback copy of 'Dr Who and the Day of the Daleks' as research and he bought me a pint.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 23, 2013)

In cinemas, simultaneously with the TV broadcast, and in 3D. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2013)

bad because I can't afford to see it in 3d at the cinema. I do have a projector tho and a screen so it will be large and 2d

liscense fee money spunked on something not accesible to all license fee payers. Not on really is it?

I'd whine more, but I don't pay the fee so...


----------



## dessiato (Oct 23, 2013)

I am, even now, making arrangements to view this episode.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> In cinemas, simultaneously with the TV broadcast, and in 3D. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?


3D is a bad thing.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> 3D is a bad thing.



It's a bad thing if it means lots of self-indulgent sequences where the tardis spins in and out of star systems, and sonic screwdrivers are flicked dramatically out towards the camera.

But it's not a bad thing per se.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2013)

yes it is


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> But it's not a bad thing per se.


If it gives you headaches, or if you have one eye it is.


----------



## Santino (Oct 23, 2013)

I went to that Doctor Who exhibition and there was a good 3D bit in that where it looked like a Weeping Angel was reaching out towards you. But that was only 5 minutes of 3D footage, and it was enough.


----------



## innit (Oct 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> If it gives you headaches, or if you have one eye it is.


Apparently one in ten people can't see in 3D - I am one of them. Statistic may be dodgy but is courtesy of a major film distributor who my boyfriend works with. 

Ergo 3D is disablist and should not be allowed  this is a watertight argument with no flaws


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2013)

innit said:


> Apparently one in ten people can't see in 3D - I am one of them. Statistic may be dodgy but is courtesy of a major film distributor who my boyfriend works with.
> 
> Ergo 3D is disablist and should not be allowed  this is a watertight argument with no flaws




can you see magic eye pictures? me niether. Nor 3d. Its all a big con. If my shonky eyes can't see it then nobody else should.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2013)

Also that magic eye poster craze bollocking bollocks, where people were cowed into claiming they could see 3D images of dolphins that didn't exist, has been "forgotten" now because everyone is now embarrassed they were so gullible to go along with it. 

Those of us who were honest enough to say the king was in his All-together were vindicated on that, and will be on this fad too.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2013)

*touches fists*


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> can you see magic eye pictures? me niether. Nor 3d. Its all a big con. If my shonky eyes can't see it then nobody else should.





danny la rouge said:


> Also that magic eye poster craze bollocking bollocks, where people were cowed into claiming they could see 3D images of dolphins that didn't exist, has been "forgotten" now because everyone is now embarrassed they were so gullible to go along with it.
> 
> Those of us who were honest enough to say the king was in his All-together were vindicated on that, and will be on this fad too.



Shaddap you two. 
It's easy. If you really can't do it, a good way for beginners is to stick the picture behind some glass and focus on your reflection.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Shaddap you two.
> It's easy. If you really can't do it, a good way for beginners is to stick the picture behind some glass and focus on your reflection.


No you can't. You've been sussed, so give it up.


----------



## innit (Oct 23, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Shaddap you two.
> It's easy. If you really can't do it, a good way for beginners is to stick the picture behind some glass and focus on your reflection.


I will never be able to do it because my brain can't integrate the signals from my two eyes. 

I don't care. It's shit. If I want to see a picture of a dolphin I'll look at a picture of a dolphin, none of this nonsense.


----------



## Kuso (Oct 23, 2013)

is it going to be shown in cinemas in 2d? I'd love to see it on a big screen but fuck the 3d- gives me mad headaches


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2013)

innit said:


> I will never be able to do it because my brain can't integrate the signals from my two eyes.
> 
> I don't care. It's shit. If I want to see a picture of a dolphin I'll look at a picture of a dolphin, none of this nonsense.




same issue. Born with a boss eye that EVENTUALLY was corrected by surgery. When I'm tired I still lose focus on the left ocular. My brain does not process both eye streams correctly 

These bastards with thier imaginary pictures and their bullshit three d


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 23, 2013)

All you wonky eye losers get yourselves to the Intersectionality thread


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> All you wonky eye losers get yourselves to the Intersectionality thread


No.  The term itself "disenfranchises" people.  I refuse to be a part of that shit jargon. It's for Guardianistas.


----------



## Cid (Oct 23, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ecclestone has his reasons. He had a bad time at Dr Who and was not treated well. Not a lot of people like to work with other people that they do not get on with. I think he has shown a heck of a lot of goodwill just turning up to discuss the role (and ultimately turn it down) in person. He has also gotten a lot of flack for leaving early, and kept his mouth shut, despite it being revealed later that it was not down to him.
> He genuinely appears to be quite fond of who and his involvement, but would you go back to work for someone who screwed you over and you didn't get on with if you didn't have to? I know quite a few people I would never work for again, even if it was my dream job, as I know they would turn that dream into a nightmare.



Indeed... 




			
				Ecclestone said:
			
		

> “I left _Doctor Who_ because I could not get along with the senior people. I left because of politics. I did not see eye-to-eye with them. I didn’t agree with the way things were being run. I didn’t like the culture that had grown up around the series. So I left, I felt, over a principle.
> 
> I thought to remain, which would have made me a lot of money and given me huge visibility, the price I would have had to pay was to eat a lot of shit. I’m not being funny about that. I didn’t want to do that and it comes to the art of it, in a way. I feel that if you run your career and.. we are vulnerable as actors and we are constantly humiliating ourselves auditioning. But if you allow that to go on, on a grand scale you will lose whatever it is about you and it will be present in your work."
> 
> ...



Seems he had his reasons, good ones.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2013)

innit said:


> If I want to see a picture of a dolphin I'll look at a picture of a dolphin, none of this nonsense.


Exactly.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2013)

Cid said:


> Seems he had his reasons, good ones.



Where's that C&P from?


----------



## Cid (Oct 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Where's that C&P from?



Transcript of him speaking at an acting masterclass at the the Theatre Royal Haymarket in 2011... Got posted up on Bad Wilf podcast. Reported in the Guardian, so probably legit.


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 23, 2013)

Hasn't the show management changed completely since Eccleston's series though? Not just RTD, but his co-producers are gone too


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 23, 2013)

Cid said:


> Transcript of him speaking at an acting masterclass at the the Theatre Royal Haymarket in 2011... Got posted up on Bad Wilf podcast. Reported in the Guardian, so probably legit.


Wasn't questioning its veracity, just wanted to find the source.  Cheers.


----------



## Cid (Oct 23, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Hasn't the show management changed completely since Eccleston's series though? Not just RTD, but his co-producers are gone too



Dunno, but this is upper-echelons BBC stuff, I imagine schmoozing, poorly paid interns, nepotism, abused runners etc continue as per.


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 23, 2013)

Cid said:


> Dunno, but this is upper-echelons BBC stuff, I imagine schmoozing, poorly paid interns, nepotism, abused runners etc continue as per.



I don't think that's what he was talking about, or he'd never work in TV again


----------



## Cid (Oct 23, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> I don't think that's what he was talking about, or he'd never work in TV again



Ha, true I suppose.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 23, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> I don't think that's what he was talking about, or he'd never work in TV again



That's like saying that you will never work in construction again because one job and the people involved are dicks. There are not five people overlooking the whole of TV and agreeing (or not) to everyone that works on it. 

I work in telly, and not on the big stuff, but there are circles to avoid. Even in my world, people can be very successful, wonderful and talented, but somehow find themselves working in the job from hell (which from the outside looks everso wonderful).

There are a lot of shows I have worked on that people say "that must have been great!" and it was in fact HELL. There are many shows that I have had a ball on that people thing must have been terrible jobs. It almost always comes down to the people you work with and the way certain production (institutionally) work.
I can well imagine that as a top rated actor the divide between level of shit and bliss would be all the more and far more all consuming.

Poor guy gets a lot of "Ecleston refused to take part" hate, when there is a lot more to be considered. I am amazed he has kept his head above it all.


----------



## Stigmata (Oct 23, 2013)

I don't doubt any of that, ATOMIC SUPLEX . I was talking more specifically about the things Cid listed, Nepotism, dogsbody interns etc, which I imagine are fairly common in the industry. I'll defer to your experience though if that's not the case

Edit: maybe Eccleston has good reasons for being a grumpy sod. But it's still a shame!


----------



## Chz (Oct 23, 2013)

At least he's not an asshole about it, the way Tom Baker has been frequently. He was such a bastard to the Big Finish people, who went way out of their way to try and accommodate his ego.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Oct 23, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> I don't doubt any of that, ATOMIC SUPLEX . I was talking more specifically about the things Cid listed, Nepotism, dogsbody interns etc, which I imagine are fairly common in the industry. I'll defer to your experience though if that's not the case
> 
> Edit: maybe Eccleston has good reasons for being a grumpy sod. But it's still a shame!



I see. Well in some areas, yes these do exist. 
I thought your post suggested that if Eclestone was against the things listed then he would never be able to work in TV anywhere. This would not be the case.


----------



## mrsfran (Oct 23, 2013)

One of my colleagues, whose father is one of the big-wigs on the show, has been in Dr Who twice - she played a Silurian and one of the Venetian vampire ladies. So there's some nepotism right there. Even though she is very nice really, and does work in TV and is a model.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 23, 2013)




----------



## Balbi (Nov 9, 2013)




----------



## CNT36 (Nov 9, 2013)

Balbi said:


>



 Time war then?


----------



## 8den (Nov 9, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Hasn't the show management changed completely since Eccleston's series though? Not just RTD, but his co-producers are gone too



Having worked with many ex Doctor Who staff I can confirm it has a appalling reputation for the way it treats its crew.


bectu wrote a critical report about film and TV work practice's and doctor who was singled out.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 9, 2013)

Balbi said:


>



bloody fucking rose...  ooooooooh, she's soooooooo imooooooooooortant... blah, blah, blah...


----------



## moonsi til (Nov 10, 2013)

Bought my BF & his son tickets to see it in 3D at the flicks. I can't join them as will be working..


----------



## Balbi (Nov 10, 2013)

Extended trailer...

"Oh, you've redecorated.....

...I don't like it"


----------



## Balbi (Nov 10, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> bloody fucking rose...  ooooooooh, she's soooooooo imooooooooooortant... blah, blah, blah...



I suspect that's not Rose, but Bad Wolf Rose.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 10, 2013)

God damn I hate that new assistant now. 
I think I need to buy the special edition of the five doctors.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 14, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01lhhv4/Doctor_Who_Mini_Episode_The_Night_Of_The_Doctor/

That was a nice surprise


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 14, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01lhhv4/Doctor_Who_Mini_Episode_The_Night_Of_The_Doctor/
> 
> That was a nice surprise



Indeed! Very pleased by that.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 14, 2013)

yes , very nice...


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 14, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> God damn I hate that new assistant now.
> I think I need to buy the special edition of the five doctors.


There's a thing with Brian Cox on. I think it's tonight. Anyway, its about the science of Dr Who. 
I saw the trailer and thought of you.


----------



## BoxRoom (Nov 14, 2013)

Excellent! That was really very good indeed.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 14, 2013)

Santino said:


> View attachment 42022


Looks like a clip from a Victorian version of Breaking Bad.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 14, 2013)

That was great, but it mostly makes me sad we didn't get moar of Paul McGann's doctor.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 14, 2013)

I was wondering who would spoil it first SpookyFrank 

Enjoyed that, a great surprise. Made sure to watch it before logging on here though.


----------



## Chz (Nov 14, 2013)

Oh excellent, excellent stuff! And McGann wasn't telling porkies when he said he wasn't in the 50th show.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 14, 2013)

That was quite cool.  McGann would've been ace.  


Spoiler



So, the Hurt we see at the end there, was, through the magic of tv trickery, John Hurt as a young man.   The war ages him.  Nice.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2013)

appetite well and truly whetted


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 14, 2013)

Enjoyed that. The character of the eigth doctor has really developed through out all of those audiobooks. I thought it was odd when they went to the effort of having photo shoots a few months ago with the new costume just for the big finish range.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Nov 14, 2013)

Very interesting. Was that the planet and the sisterhood from the Brain of Morbius?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 14, 2013)

keeper of traken?

edit, no not that


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 14, 2013)

PursuedByBears said:


> Very interesting. Was that the planet and the sisterhood from the Brain of Morbius?


Yes.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Nov 14, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Yes.


<awards self 100 geek points>

Also, who thinks John Hurt will regenerate into Christopher Ecclestone at the end of the anniversary episode?  Have they been faking us out with the talk of Ecclestone not returning?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 15, 2013)

But the Doctor only has 12 regenerations! That means Matt Smith was the last as the twelth given John Hurt.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 15, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> But the Doctor only has 12 regenerations! That means Matt Smith was the last as the twelth given John Hurt.


 
The drink he took was even more advanced than Timelord regeneration science, or something.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2013)

Anyone catch the brian cox lecture 'the science of Doctor Who'

was ok, simple explanations of sci fi ish concepts like minkowski space time, relatavistic effects, fermi paradox, event horizons on singularities etc

Charles dance blew up a light bulb ftw


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 15, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> The drink he took was even more advanced than Timelord regeneration science, or something.


White Lightning.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 15, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Anyone catch the brian cox lecture 'the science of Doctor Who'
> 
> was ok, simple explanations of sci fi ish concepts like minkowski space time, relatavistic effects, fermi paradox, event horizons on singularities etc
> 
> Charles dance blew up a light bulb ftw


Interesting stuff, but Brian Cox puts me off. I find him arrogant. Plus the audience full of BBC celebrities was ridiculous. Should have been for the young 'uns.


----------



## youngian (Nov 15, 2013)

He should lay off the acting as well. Hardly Brian Cox is he.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> Interesting stuff, but Brian Cox puts me off. I find him arrogant. Plus the audience full of BBC celebrities was ridiculous. Should have been for the young 'uns.



there ws a few kids in the audience but yes it was mostly luvvies.

I don't mind brian cox, but then I've always had the ability to tune out personality and mannerisms when someone is lecturing at me, especially if its a subject as fascinating as time dilation.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 15, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> Interesting stuff, but Brian Cox puts me off. I find him arrogant. Plus the audience full of BBC celebrities was ridiculous. Should have been for the young 'uns.



I quite like Brian Cox, but agreed it should really have been done like one of the Royal Institution Christmas Lectures. The sight of all the celebs locked in mock-concentration poses, occasionally nodding sagaciously, was quite off-putting. Still, the material itself was well presented.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 15, 2013)

Another little bit.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 15, 2013)

needs more Omega.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01lhhv4/Doctor_Who_Mini_Episode_The_Night_Of_The_Doctor/
> 
> That was a nice surprise


Blimey. That was better than anything they have done on Dr who for a long time. McGann was quite good wasn't he. They really wasted him on that shit film.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 15, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Blimey. That was better than anything they have done on Dr who for a long time. McGann was quite good wasn't he. They really wasted him on that shit film.



Positive A_S quote...







Yes. McGann would have been superb. I rewatched it, and he had flashes of it then - but as a mature actor, well, he's grand. He's only a year younger than Capaldi as well, but doesn't look it.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Positive A_S quote...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. McGann would have been superb. I rewatched it, and he had flashes of it then - but as a mature actor, well, he's grand. He's only a year younger than Capaldi as well, but doesn't look it.



It made watching the new clips of the last two doctors together look like little school kids playing in silly coats. 
Shame about the am dram 'witches' and potions. When I think about it McGann is what made that whole little bit decent, there was nothing else that really lifted it, apart from a little bit of backstory. Some good lines delivered well by McCann. 

I am a little sad that we won't see more of him and Ecclestone and less of fucking Rose and that new spunky bimbo. The new girl would only have been cool if she had been a Dalek all along.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 16, 2013)

Am dram witches? Sisterhood of Karn, Tom Baker's 'Brain of Morbius', it's a stone cold classic reference there - potions and all.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2013)

Will we be seeing any Torchwood people or has everyone agreed to pretend that was all a bad dream?


----------



## cesare (Nov 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Anyone catch the brian cox lecture 'the science of Doctor Who'
> 
> was ok, simple explanations of sci fi ish concepts like minkowski space time, relatavistic effects, fermi paradox, event horizons on singularities etc
> 
> Charles dance blew up a light bulb ftw


We saw it. Quite enjoyable - but then I like Brian Cox, I like his ability to explain complicated things simply.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Am dram witches? Sisterhood of Karn, Tom Baker's 'Brain of Morbius', it's a stone cold classic reference there - potions and all.


Yeah, I never liked that hammy hammer horror story either.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 16, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yeah, I never liked that hammy hammer horror story either.







I love it


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2013)

Balbi said:


> I love it



I think it gets me angry because it infers some pre harnall Doctors which they later reneg on (doctor was making it up or something - bah).


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2013)

See everytime somebody mocks Berti Basset I am going to refer to that mobius

This weekend BBC3 are doing a top 10 monsters & villains. Its basically an excuse to show episodes and there are filler bits in between with some cock talking about stuff.

yesterday was the low numbers so we had crap like the jadoon and the ood (no doubt voted for by children).

probably worth tuning in on sunday. I think the number one spot will be Daleks or possibly the weeping angels


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> See everytime somebody mocks Berti Basset I am going to refer to that mobius
> 
> This weekend BBC3 are doing a top 10 monsters & villains. Its basically an excuse to show episodes and there are filler bits in between with some cock talking about stuff.
> 
> ...



Who would you vote for? 

I know nobody will be with me on this but two stand out shockers for me were the Movalans and the Jaggaroth (almost certainly both spelt wrong).


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> That was quite cool.  McGann would've been ace.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



Or age ages him.


----------



## cesare (Nov 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> See everytime somebody mocks Berti Basset I am going to refer to that mobius
> 
> This weekend BBC3 are doing a top 10 monsters & villains. Its basically an excuse to show episodes and there are filler bits in between with some cock talking about stuff.
> 
> ...


Girl in the Fireplace too, last night. I liked that episode bar Rose. Button's money's on the daleks at number one but I think the weeping angels might be in with a shout.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Who would you vote for?
> 
> I know nobody will be with me on this but two stand out shockers for me were the Movalans and the Jaggaroth (almost certainly both spelt wrong).



Daleks, always has been always will be.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Daleks, always has been always will be.


I think I meant less obvious ones. 
I think I always enjoyed a good Dalek reveal (even if they stories all had 'Dalek' in the sodding title).
Cybermen too. I love the shit 80s Cybermen. Beril fucking Reid motherfucker.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2013)

Weeping angels angels were a one shot deal. They ruined them by bringing them out again. It's like the Matrix reloaded all over again.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I think I meant less obvious ones.
> I think I always enjoyed a good Dalek reveal (even if they stories all had 'Dalek' in the sodding title).
> Cybermen too. I love the shit 80s Cybermen. Beril fucking Reid motherfucker.



oh in that case the vat of sentient plastic that turned out to not be the Nesteen Consciousness despite my assertion that it had to be


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> oh in that case the vat of sentient plastic that turned out to not be the Nesteen Consciousness despite my assertion that it had to be


I really enjoyed spearhead from space.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 16, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I think it gets me angry because it infers some pre harnall Doctors which they later reneg on (doctor was making it up or something - bah).



I think it was sort of mean to be Morbius' previous lives, as he'd used his up/been sentenced to death at the end of his last one.


----------



## mentalchik (Nov 16, 2013)

never really liked the Daleks.....never found them in the least bit scary.....


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2013)

mentalchik said:


> never really liked the Daleks.....never found them in the least bit scary.....



As a kid I found them scary simply because everyone in the show said they were super dangerous and hid from them. I never questioned that. 
I remember an episode that simply ended with people running away from Daleks and getting to a dead end. Arrrrrhhhhh.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2013)

I never feared the daleks, I just like them the best. Theres never any complications about 'can I save this baddie from itself' or 'It simply needed a home and we humans were encroaching on its breeding ground'


none of that shit. Straight up master race exist to kill and dominate evil.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2013)

Imperial Daleks had the best colour scheme. I actually have this toy in the attic but the plunger broke of while I was playing with it putting it on a shelf, so I can't have it on display.


----------



## mentalchik (Nov 16, 2013)




----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2013)

I have a couple knocking about. 
 
This one is a female


----------



## Balbi (Nov 16, 2013)

How can you tell?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I really enjoyed spearhead from space.




I just looked that up and it has the honour of being the first colour Who stories.

I always liked Pertwee despite the fact that he was stuck in the 70s and drove a wankers car.


----------



## Santino (Nov 16, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It made watching the new clips of the last two doctors together look like little school kids playing in silly coats.
> Shame about the am dram 'witches' and potions. When I think about it McGann is what made that whole little bit decent, there was nothing else that really lifted it, apart from a little bit of backstory. Some good lines delivered well by McCann.
> 
> I am a little sad that we won't see more of him and Ecclestone and less of fucking Rose and that new spunky bimbo. The new girl would only have been cool if she had been a Dalek all along.


It's always the stuff that didn't get made that's the best, isn't it?


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 17, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I just looked that up and it has the honour of being the first colour Who stories.
> 
> I always liked Pertwee despite the fact that he was stuck in the 70s and drove a wankers car.


that car is beautiful and is the main reason I became fascinated with doctor who


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 17, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p01lhhv4/Doctor_Who_Mini_Episode_The_Night_Of_The_Doctor/
> 
> That was a nice surprise


A delightfully camp RSC production.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 18, 2013)

I'm quite looking forward to an adventure in space and time, probably more than  the day of the Doctor,  and I'm also enjoying the radio 4xtra stuff as well and the monsters and villains episodes on bbc3 was watchable with blink and dalek being the best ones shown for me, I will miss all this who when it is over.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 18, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I just looked that up and it has the honour of being the first colour Who stories.
> 
> I always liked Pertwee despite the fact that he was stuck in the 70s and drove a wankers car.



its one of the best who stories ever - and includes the brilliant scene of the shop window dummies coming to life and vapourising commuters and pc plod.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 18, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> its one of the best who stories ever - and includes the brilliant scene of the shop window dummies coming to life and vapourising commuters and pc plod.



It's brilliant, quite cinematic. Mostly shot on film due to a strike I think. Great pacing, and even though it's a bit cheesy the slow reveal of the new doctor is brilliant.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 19, 2013)

PursuedByBears said:


> <awards self 100 geek points>
> 
> Also, who thinks John Hurt will regenerate into Christopher Ecclestone at the end of the anniversary episode?  Have they been faking us out with the talk of Ecclestone not returning?



That would be good.  But even better, will the 1st and 2nd Doctors be in it? They already have David Bradley as William Hartnell and Reece Shearsmith as Patrick Troughton in An Adventure in Space and Time. That gives them the opportunity to use them again. I hope they've been keeping it from us that those Doctors will be, however fleetingly, in the 50th Anniversary Episode.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 20, 2013)

11th Century Tapestry proves the Doctor was here before:






(It's really fan art).


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 20, 2013)

I have a feeling they will all be in it in some form


----------



## slightlytouched (Nov 20, 2013)

As a side note I wondered if any other Urbanites are involved in the kickstarter project tardisinorbit? I finally got round to uploading my data, just in time!


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 20, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> Interesting stuff, but Brian Cox puts me off. I find him arrogant. Plus the audience full of BBC celebrities was ridiculous. Should have been for the young 'uns.



For some reason I cannot take to Brian Cox either, I think it may be he seems to have a permanently sweaty top lip!
I also am an avid fan of Carl Sagan who did all this thirty years ago much better.


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 20, 2013)

Has any seen that Neil Gaiman has done the Fiftieth Anniversary eBook?

It seems to have ruffled feathers already!

http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...rant-in-a-50th-anniversary-story-8944625.html


----------



## Wilf (Nov 20, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> I have a feeling they will all be in it in some form


Ther are strong rumours that the Peter Kay and James Corden characters will be at the heart of the 50th Anniversary show.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 20, 2013)

that would be great...


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 20, 2013)

Sprocket. said:


> Has any seen that Neil Gaiman has done the Fiftieth Anniversary eBook?
> 
> It seems to have ruffled feathers already!
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-e...rant-in-a-50th-anniversary-story-8944625.html


It has its own thread somewhere.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 20, 2013)

Sprocket. said:


> For some reason I cannot take to Brian Cox either, I think it may be he seems to have a permanently sweaty top lip!
> I also am an avid fan of Carl Sagan who did all this thirty years ago much better.


I just find him a bit arrogant. Ok it's a bit ridiculous to believe in the supernatural and all the rest of it, but some people do and sneering at them when you're meant to be presenting a science show just makes you look like a dick, Brian.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 20, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> I just find him a bit arrogant. Ok it's a bit ridiculous to believe in the supernatural and all the rest of it, but some people do and sneering at them when you're meant to be presenting a science show just makes you look like a dick, Brian.


Maybe if he just explained that all the things perceived as supernatural are actually the work of aliens, people would think him less of a cunt.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 20, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> I just find him a bit arrogant. Ok it's a bit ridiculous to believe in the supernatural and all the rest of it, but some people do and sneering at them when you're meant to be presenting a science show just makes you look like a dick, Brian.



I met him once. Nice enough guy but massively unprepossessing. A sustained conversation would be a challenge


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 20, 2013)

INTERACTIVE TARDIS TOUR!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-24957282


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Nov 20, 2013)

May have offended the parents as when my mum told me they were showing it at our cinema and they were going to get tickets, I said I'd sooner watch it on telly


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 20, 2013)

Nine Bob Note said:


> May have offended the parents as when my mum told me they were showing it at our cinema and they were going to get tickets, I said I'd sooner watch it on telly


When offered something, wait a few minutes, _then _reply.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 20, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> 11th Century Tapestry proves the Doctor was here before:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Larger and readable here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/mudron/10823163455/sizes/o/in/photostream/


----------



## Sprocket. (Nov 20, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> It has its own thread somewhere.



Ta


----------



## Balbi (Nov 20, 2013)

New minisode

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/50th-minisode-the-last-day-55748.htm


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 20, 2013)

Balbi said:


> New minisode
> 
> http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/50th-minisode-the-last-day-55748.htm


Cheers, I'll watch that on the computer later.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 20, 2013)

Balbi said:


> New minisode
> 
> http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/50th-minisode-the-last-day-55748.htm



Hmmm, not sure what to make of that. Maybe it fits into something larger?


----------



## Balbi (Nov 20, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Hmmm, not sure what to make of that. Maybe it fits into something larger?



Fall of Arcadia. Ref'd during Tennant's time.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 20, 2013)

Itunes? Fuck that


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 21, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> I just find him a bit arrogant. Ok it's a bit ridiculous to believe in the supernatural and all the rest of it, but some people do and sneering at them when you're meant to be presenting a science show just makes you look like a dick, Brian.


he always makes me laugh when he does that, and I like him for it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2013)

license theiving scum better put that shit on iplayer before I have to go full wrath


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 21, 2013)

did anyone see the one show earlier, I found it to be a strange experience,interesting and disturbing at the same time.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 21, 2013)

So I watched the first minisode last night - does that mean all references to Doctors post-McGann will have to be bumped one? i.e. Ecclestone will now be referred to as the tenth doctor, Tennant the eleventh and Smith the twelfth?


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 21, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> license theiving scum better put that shit on iplayer before I have to go full wrath


Oh wind your neck in, it's free.......

Just watched the mini-episode on iTunes.  It's was good.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 21, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> did anyone see the one show earlier, I found it to be a strange experience,interesting and disturbing at the same time.


 Has Jason Manford come back on it?


----------



## Santino (Nov 21, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> So I watched the first minisode last night - does that mean all references to Doctors post-McGann will have to be bumped one? i.e. Ecclestone will now be referred to as the tenth doctor, Tennant the eleventh and Smith the twelfth?


Hurt is like Oliver Cromwell between Charlies 1 and 2.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 21, 2013)

Well, I attempted to watch that new mini episode. Swallowed my pride and went on itunes. But no, true to form the discerning hipster's favourite overpriced shit things company can't even host a fucking video


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 21, 2013)

It'll get hosted on YouTube soon enough, won't it?


Santino said:


> Hurt is like Oliver Cromwell between Charlies 1 and 2.


Hmm, I say, hmm...


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 21, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> Well, I attempted to watch that new mini episode. Swallowed my pride and went on itunes. But no, true to form the discerning hipster's favourite overpriced shit things company can't even host a fucking video


What? It's working fine.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 21, 2013)

The tech seemed a bit primitive to me, or do normal Gallifreyans not have access to Time Lord gear?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 21, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> What? It's working fine.



Oh, it seems to work fine on the page that's linked to. Just doesn't work on itunes.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 21, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> Oh, it seems to work fine on the page that's linked to. Just doesn't work on itunes.


I don't know what you mean by "doesn't work"?  I just downloaded it fine.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 21, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> The tech seemed a bit primitive to me, or do normal Gallifreyans not have access to Time Lord gear?


all gallifreyans are time lords i thought


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 21, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> It'll get hosted on YouTube soon enough, won't it?
> Hmm, I say, hmm...


 
It was on YouTube ages ago!


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> all gallifreyans are time lords i thought



I think there's a distinction between Time Lords and proles on Gallifrey, but it's all a bit ambiguous


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 21, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> I think there's a distinction between Time Lords and proles on Gallifrey, but it's all a bit ambiguous


time lords and time proles


----------



## Santino (Nov 21, 2013)

I'm more of a Time Squeezed Middle. You know, don't actually have a TARDIS but I go to meetings where we plan what to do with them.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 21, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> time lords and time proles



With names like the Geezer, the Spiv etc


----------



## Wilf (Nov 21, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> With names like the Geezer, the Spiv etc


 ... pimped tardis.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 21, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> It was on YouTube ages ago!


Is it? I can't get it to work on iTunes. It's all jumpy and stuttery. My computer is very old.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 21, 2013)

There's really not much to it. A bit pointless


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 21, 2013)

Okay. It doesn't explain anything, then, like the McGann one?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 21, 2013)

I've heard at one point the Doctor explains the difference between a stalagmite and a stalactite, but if you know that you can probably give it a miss.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 21, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Okay. It doesn't explain anything, then, like the McGann one?



<SPOILER WARNING>

It's just a soldier on Gallifrey talking about nothing much and then some Daleks appear. The end.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 21, 2013)

First four DrW episodes to be broadcast tonight on BBC4, right after *An Adventure in Space and Time *on BBC2


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 21, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> First four DrW episodes to be broadcast tonight on BBC4, right after *An Adventure in Space and Time *on BBC2


 Bums, I was hoping for an early night. I will probably just about make it home in time for 9pm (that's when it starts right?


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 21, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Bums, I was hoping for an early night. I will probably just about make it home in time for 9pm (that's when it starts right?


Record them.

Or iPlayer.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 21, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Oh wind your neck in, it's free.......
> 
> Just watched the mini-episode on iTunes.  It's was good.




my neck remains unwound. I am looking forward to tonights thingy tho


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 21, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Bums, I was hoping for an early night. I will probably just about make it home in time for 9pm (that's when it starts right?


Yep, 9pm through to 10.30pm, and then over to BBC4 for an hour and 40 mins of Season  1 An Unearthly Child Episodes 1,2,3, and 4


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 21, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Record them.
> 
> Or iPlayer.


 I don't have a video recorder.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 21, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Yep, 9pm through to 10.30pm, and then over to BBC4 for an hour and 40 mins of Season  1 An Unearthly Child Episodes 1,2,3, and 4


 
Ok well, I might get in in time for time and space but I will have to iplayer the rest tomorrow or something.
I guess I will end up getting the DVDs at some point. I have to say that for the most part even the 'classic' Hartnell episodes bore the shit out of me. I need to be fairly lubricated and have the info text on.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 21, 2013)

The BBC are having a bit of a laugh with Dr Who. The price of the classic episodes which are decades old on DVD is absurd. Why can't this stuff be free to download or watch online?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 21, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> The BBC are having a bit of a laugh with Dr Who. The price of the classic episodes which are decades old on DVD is absurd. Why can't this stuff be free to download or watch online?


 They were doing that on you tube for a while but they seemed to pull it.
You can get the classic eps for cheap on amazon now and then. A few years ago I bought them all the time and wouldn't be paying more than £2 per DVD.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 21, 2013)

Really enjoyed "An Adventure In Time And Space" tonight, well, right up until Matt Smith appeared.
Why did they have to do that?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 21, 2013)

Really rather loved "An Adventure in Space and Time".


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 21, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> Why did they have to do that?



Seemed fitting, given the parallels that were drawn throughout between Hartnell the man, and the Doctor as a character.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 21, 2013)

What was really interesting in An Adventure in Space and Time was the way they used the cameras and monitors from the original production to recreate the filming sequences, it really gave a sence of authenticity.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 22, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> Really enjoyed "An Adventure In Time And Space" tonight, well, right up until Matt Smith appeared.
> Why did they have to do that?



Ruined it for me. 

I was really enjoying it, but to muddy it with speculative fantasy (on Hartnells part) was pathetic. I am assuming it was added by some BBC executive twat to tie the 50th business together. 

What I thought was great was that it wasn't just about getting Doctor who off the ground, it was about Harnells entire journey. I think it showed that you could make a promising drama about each doctor. Oddly I think Colin Bakers Story might be the weirdest and best developed for a drama. The downfall of Dr Who from Colin, McCoy and McGann might be a harder sell to the BBC though. 

In other news, I only found out about P.R.O.B.E. for the first time last night. What a strange thing, and with all but one classic doctor in the first one.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2013)

I thought it was great. The tragedy of being a jobbing actor and then finding your career defining, winning much loved role when you are too old to do it


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 22, 2013)

I really enjoyed it. Should not have had Smith in there, but it was still superb.


----------



## cesare (Nov 22, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought it was great. The tragedy of being a jobbing actor and then finding your career defining, winning much loved role when you are too old to do it


He wasn't *that* old though. He was only 55 when he became the Doctor, so between the ages of 55 and 58. It was his illness that did for him 

Edit: just 3 years older than me when he became the Doctor, eep.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2013)

cesare said:


> He wasn't *that* old though. He was only 55 when he became the Doctor, so between the ages of 55 and 58. It was his illness that did for him
> 
> Edit: just 3 years older than me when he became the Doctor, eep.



got a bit choked up when he did the 'I..I have to go' bit


----------



## cesare (Nov 22, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> got a bit choked up when he did the 'I..I have to go' bit


Yes


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2013)

OMG look at google today, theres a se4ries of doctor who mini games


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 22, 2013)

Thought it was really lovely, and the Matt Smith bit a nice touch.


----------



## rutabowa (Nov 22, 2013)

I have the actual hat that Sylvester McCoy wore in the tv series, autographed by him. How much you reckon that will ebay for?


----------



## blossie33 (Nov 22, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> OMG look at google today, theres a se4ries of doctor who mini games


 
Yes, it's great!

It's possible to move the Doctors around and there is a game you can play with it (unfortunately it doesn't work on my pc  as it needs updating but my colleagues have had a go)


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 22, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> Thought it was really lovely, and the Matt Smith bit a nice touch.


 Pfft.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 22, 2013)

cesare said:


> He wasn't *that* old though. He was only 55 when he became the Doctor, so between the ages of 55 and 58. It was his illness that did for him
> 
> Edit: just 3 years older than me when he became the Doctor, eep.


 
Yeah, when I saw at the end that he died at 67 I started thinking "wait, the came back for the THREE doctors before he died. How old was he as doctor who?"
Did some bed time wiki reading, they were all so young. PT looks so damn old for such a wipper snapper.


----------



## cesare (Nov 22, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yeah, when I saw at the end that he died at 67 I started thinking "wait, the came back for the THREE doctors before he died. How old was he as doctor who?"
> Did some bed time wiki reading, they were all so young. PT looks so damn old for such a wipper snapper.


PT was 46 when he became the Doctor, only 9 years younger than when WH first was, but he looked a lot younger aye.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 22, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> all gallifreyans are time lords i thought


http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Shobogan


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 22, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ok well, I might get in in time for time and space but I will have to iplayer the rest tomorrow or something.
> I have to say that for the most part even the 'classic' Hartnell episodes bore the shit out of me.


I haven't watched it for a few years but the first episode is quite good. It all goes downhill once they actually travel in the Tardis.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 22, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Pfft.


 

it wouldnt be a dr who thread if we agreed AS, you go back to your moaning and il go back to my enjoyment


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 22, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Shobogan


what's the equivalent of 'trekkie geek' for dr who fans?


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> what's the equivalent of 'trekkie geek' for dr who fans?


Whovian.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 22, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Whovian.


ta


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2013)

I remember where I went looking for short Who fiction and came across a massive site called 'a teaspoon and open mind'

http://www.whofic.com/

Result! I thought. An absolutely massive archive of amatuer Who fictions! I'll just look for the top rated stories and enjoy this treasure trove of who fiction done with love by fans.

Imagine my dismay when the top story turned out to be tennant being bummed over the tardid console by captain jack

ffs

its worst than the time I went looking for Transformers fiction and found a picture of optimus prime violating grimlock. Fuck you internet


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> ta


They should be called "Whovers".


----------



## cesare (Nov 22, 2013)

I've only just realised that PT was exactly the same age as WH when he died - 67


Edit: and they both did 3 year stints as the Doctor


----------



## rutabowa (Nov 22, 2013)

rutabowa said:


> I have the actual hat that Sylvester McCoy wore in the tv series, autographed by him. How much you reckon that will ebay for?


ANSWER ME


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2013)

rutabowa said:


> ANSWER ME


If you can prove its authenticity quite a lot I should imagine.


----------



## rutabowa (Nov 22, 2013)

It is signed... and if anyone asked Sylvester McCoy he would confirm it. Is that enough do you reckon?


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2013)

rutabowa said:


> It is signed... and if anyone asked Sylvester McCoy he would confirm it. Is that enough do you reckon?


No idea, sorry.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> Really enjoyed "An Adventure In Time And Space" tonight, well, right up until Matt Smith appeared.
> Why did they have to do that?


Absolutely. It was great, until they did that.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2013)

The first episode was terrific. I loved it. Someone on here a while ago told me it wasn't any good, and I stupidly believed them.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 22, 2013)

cesare said:


> PT was 46 when he became the Doctor, only 9 years younger than when WH first was, but he looked a lot younger aye.


 
I think also my idea of what is 'old' has changed as I have gotten older.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 22, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> They should be called "Whovers".


 
Or whoosiers?


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 22, 2013)

Oh what a disappointment Season 1 An Unearthly Child Episodes 1,2,3, and 4 shown on BBC4 last night are listed as 'Not available' on BBC iPlayer, when I see this it's usually associated with copyright issues - how ironic it'd be if this was the case here.  Otherwise, BBC, pull your finger out and get em up.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 22, 2013)

Gah, that's annoying. I guess it conflicts with their 2 entertain DVD contract or something.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Gah, that's annoying. I


Indeed. I Sky Plused the docu-drama, but I was going to watch the episodes on the iPlayer.  If I'd known there weren't going to be on it I'd have recorded them too!


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 22, 2013)

Maybe they're just a bit slow putting it up (wishful thinking).


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Maybe they're just a bit slow putting it up (wishful thinking).


Nope:



> Please note that *Doctor Who: An Unearthly Child* episodes broadcast on BBC Four on 21/11/2013 will not be available on BBC iPlayer.



http://iplayerhelp.external.bbc.co.uk/help/announcements/programme_latest_issues


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2013)

I've actually got "An Unearthly Child" on a "The Hartnell Years" VHS I've had for a while.  On the back it says "the original untransmited pilot episode" so I don't know what the difference between that and the one shown last night is.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 22, 2013)

I'm just about able to cobble it together via various YouTube channels, but any hope of the iPlayer being a dependable catch-up service is struck yet another blow. If I had known I'd of made alternative arrangements.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> I've actually got "An Unearthly Child" on a "The Hartnell Years" VHS I've had for a while.  On the back it says "the original untransmited pilot episode" so I don't know what the difference between that and the one shown last night is.


In Space and Time, they said the initial episode was re-shot. The Dr was made more "twinkly" and specific references to "his and Susan's century (47th)" were removed, to make him more mysterious.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 22, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> I think there's a distinction between Time Lords and proles on Gallifrey, but it's all a bit ambiguous


The Deadly Assassin strongly implies the Time Lords are (also the name of) the ruling class. 

I'm watching it...right now! Rented it from the library for 1 Galiifreyan Groat!


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> In Space and Time, they said the initial episode was re-shot. The Dr was made more "twinkly" and specific references to "his and Susan's century (47th)" were removed, to make him more mysterious.


Thanks.  It's been quite a while since I watched it. I have all the "The X Years" Dr. Who VHSs: Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee, Baker (Tom) and Baker (Colin). I also have Daleks - The Early Years, and Cybermen - The Early Years, with clips and full episodes.  The Tom Baker years is a double cassette pack, done by the man himself.  In it he expresses regret about turning down the opportunity to appear in The Five Doctors iirc.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2013)

What are the Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee & Tom Baker era DVDs I should buy? 1 representing each era. 

I'm trusting you.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> What are the Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee & Tom Baker era DVDs I should buy? 1 representing each era.
> 
> I'm trusting you.


No idea really. For Tom Baker though I would take a look at  The Genesis of the Daleks, which is generally reckoned to be one of the best Dr. Who stories ever, complete with the famous "is it right to kill a child who will grow up to be mass-muderer" conundrum.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2013)

Ark in Space is quality Baker. He totally genocides the wrynn. Which sounds a bit off but they were dicks.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2013)

As for troughton and hartnell you really have a limited amount to choose from cos the beeb re-used the film to shoot other stuff so there are not much of eithers run.

Pertwee wise, the mentioned up thread 'Spearhead from Space' was pertwees first story and the first full colour Who. It has the Autons, a thing controlled by the Nesteen Consciounsess. Shop dummies kill everyone, plastic sofas eat people. Its brilliant.


Pertwees era is great for his running battles with Roger Delgado who plays the Master.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 22, 2013)

Just some of my favourites, really, but I think they are all widely rated:

Hartnell:  The Aztecs
Troughton: Tomb of the Cybermen
Pertwee: Inferno
T Baker: Pyramids of Mars - scared the shite out of me as a kid


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 22, 2013)

The only Hartnell one I remember seeing is The Time Meddler, featuring Vikings and the first appearance of another Time Lord


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2013)

culture show on at 9 30

normally I hate the culture show but this ones all about Doctor Who and will help take my mind off of shit

Matt Smith will be on, as well as a geezer from Orbital (who do a fucking amazing version of the theme tune to Who, light show and everything)

and bizarrely enough, Ken Livingstone will be present with his baldy head to talk about Who. Red Ken, former member of the now defunct GLC. One time mayor of Keningrad. Epic


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> As for troughton and hartnell you really have a limited amount to choose from cos the beeb re-used the film to shoot other stuff so there are not much of eithers run.
> 
> Pertwee wise, the mentioned up thread 'Spearhead from Space' was pertwees first story and the first full colour Who. It has the Autons, a thing controlled by the Nesteen Consciounsess. Shop dummies kill everyone, plastic sofas eat people. Its brilliant.


I can remember that from its transmission. Although I just remember Troughton, Pertwee was my Doctor. Tom Baker won me over, but the Doctor for me was really Pertwee. 

I bought the Three Doctors and the Five Doctors early this year, and they were fun, but I couldn't help thinking they weren't really representative, or necessarily the best. 

I'd love to see more Hartnell, as he was before my time. (Although I remember the Three Doctors when it aired). 

I'm a bit worried about dodgy costumes, though. 

Also, I have to say that the depiction of stone age civilisation in the opening serial show last night was woefully uniformed and naive. Nothing about it rang true.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 22, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Also, I have to say that the depiction of stone age civilisation in the opening serial show last night was woefully uniformed and naive. Nothing about it rang true.



Not sure you'll find _The Aztecs_ amazingly accurate either


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 22, 2013)

Let's be honest, this was an early '60s TV series, on a tight budget, that was aimed at kids.  Realistic portrayal of ancient cultures probably wasn't at the top of their agenda.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 22, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Let's be honest, this was an early '60s TV series, on a tight budget, that was aimed at kids.  Realistic portrayal of ancient cultures probably wasn't at the top of their agenda.


Didn't they aim to entertain, educate and inform?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 22, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Not sure you'll find _The Aztecs_ amazingly accurate either



I liked  his first wife better than river song


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 22, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Didn't they aim to entertain, educate and inform?



Perhaps, but John Nathan Turner put the Reithians beyond time.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 22, 2013)

Just remembered the Delia Derbyshire cameo.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 22, 2013)

As an aside, it's the only thing written by Gatiss that I've actually liked - although there were a couple of wobbly moments, other than that give the chap a gold star.


----------



## kittyP (Nov 22, 2013)

Me apologies, I can't be arsed to read the whole thread. 

Is it the 50th anniversary episode with Smith, Tennant and Hurt this weekend and then the last series with Cappaldi at Christmas?


----------



## kittyP (Nov 22, 2013)

RedDragon said:
			
		

> As an aside, it's the only thing written by Gatiss that I've actually liked - although there were a couple of wobbly moments, other than that give the chap a gold star.



I really like Gattis in general. 
He has that geek/fan boy done good thing about him. 
He made a programme about the history of the horror genre before and he took over as The Man In Black (horror) on the radio. 
I salute him.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 22, 2013)

His DW episodes are generally pretty poor. This was good though.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 22, 2013)

kittyP said:


> I really like Gattis in general.


I see him frequently walking his dog and a rather dapper gentleman he is. I liked  that horror documentary for his passion - his novels are (sorry) not terribly good.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 22, 2013)

kittyP said:


> Me apologies, I can't be arsed to read the whole thread.
> 
> Is it the 50th anniversary episode with Smith, Tennant and Hurt this weekend and then the last series with Cappaldi at Christmas?


50th anniversary at 7:50pm Saturday night.

Xmas will be the usual Xmas special with added interest for being Matt Smith's last full episode. Will it include the regeneration into Capaldi? Who knows..

Full season of Capaldi will follow in 2014.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 22, 2013)

Oh and he (Gatiss) absolutely murdered one of my favourite books the worst journey in the world.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 22, 2013)

is it gatiss who plays mycroft in the new sherlock?

well smug.

I think he has a touch with horror writing tho


----------



## kittyP (Nov 22, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> I see him frequently walking his dog and a rather dapper gentleman he is. I liked  that horror documentary for his passion - his novels are (sorry) not terribly good.



I have not read any of his novels so cannot comment on that.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Nov 23, 2013)

"An adventure in space and time" was brilliant. It made me cry.  A producers story.  Lovely.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Nov 23, 2013)

One eye on the past, one eye on tomorrow…


----------



## Corax (Nov 23, 2013)

New teaser


----------



## Epona (Nov 23, 2013)

I thought 'Adventures in TIme and Space' (the docu-drama about the start of Doctor Who) was wonderful viewing, really well done and I really enjoyed it.

I'm a bit too young to remember the start of Doctor Who as it was a bit before my time (Pertwee was the The Doctor when I started watching, but I loved Tom Baker best), but my mum was a dedicated fan from the first episode (when she was 15) and has watched every single episode as it was aired, she was lucky in that they had a TV set and she remembers that a lot of friends on the estate who didn't have a telly themselves would come round for tea and to watch Doctor Who, all crowded round the telly.   Knowing my granddad, they all went away tummies bursting with a great big tea too, I don't think Doctor Who was his sort of thing, but for his whole life he always enjoyed putting on a good spread (once rationing was phased out) and he'd have liked to have been a chef.


----------



## Chz (Nov 23, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Just some of my favourites, really, but I think they are all widely rated:
> 
> Hartnell:  The Aztecs
> Troughton: Tomb of the Cybermen
> ...


Tomb is great, but the recently released _The Web of Fear_ is truly ace. First time we see the Brigadier!


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 23, 2013)

Rumours that more missing episodes have been recovered. This time it's Hartnell's Marco Polo, recorded on cine film by a fan. Most of the audio already existed which can be synced with the silent cine footage. 
http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/d...-responds-to-marco-polo-recovery-rumours.html


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 23, 2013)

Lazy Llama said:


> Rumours that more missing episodes have been recovered. This time it's Hartnell's Marco Polo, recorded on cine film by a fan. Most of the audio already existed which can be synced with the silent cine footage.
> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/s7/d...-responds-to-marco-polo-recovery-rumours.html



I'm inclined to believe that this is true - the rumours over the last year or two of work being done on recovered material have always focused on The Web of Fear, The Enemy of the World and Marco Polo, and the first two have been delivered, so...fingers crossed.

Please, please, please let there be an eccentric old gent (and it will be a gent, frankly) out there with Power of the Daleks on tape in his attic.


----------



## Epona (Nov 23, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I'm inclined to believe that this is true - the rumours over the last year or two of work being done on recovered material have always focused on The Web of Fear, The Enemy of the World and Marco Polo, and the first two have been delivered, so...fingers crossed.
> 
> Please, please, please let there be an eccentric old gent (and it will be a gent, frankly) out there with Power of the Daleks on tape in his attic.



Marco Polo is superb viewing even when it's a hotchpotch of pieced-together parts and stills edited together with the audio track - given that it was a big historical story heavy on costuming, I'd love to see it with all the visual parts intact.  Very pleased to hear that a copy has been found.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Nov 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> What are the Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee & Tom Baker era DVDs I should buy? 1 representing each era.
> 
> I'm trusting you.



Cant comment on hartnell and troughton - but for pertwee I'd say - 
Spearhead from Space.
Terror of the Autons (first appearence of the master + man eating chair)
The Daemons - the master as a the village vicar!  And a stone gargoyle that comes to life and scared the shit out of me as kid.
Day of the Daleks - with the ogrons - who looked great and should be brought back
The Sea Devils.- the bit where they come out of the sea onto the beach is one of my first and scariest dr who memories.

Tom Baker - 
Genesis of the Daleks
The Sunmakers (with a super capitalist dystopia where people are kept distracted by public executions)
Brain of Morbious - gruesome and scary as is The Seeds of Death - evil vegetation bent on world domination and featuring a bloke being fed into a threshing machine.


----------



## discobastard (Nov 23, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> Cant comment on hartnell and troughton - but for pertwee I'd say -
> Spearhead from Space.
> Terror of the Autons (first appearence of the master + man eating chair)
> The Daemons - the master as a the village vicar!  And a stone gargoyle that comes to life and scared the shit out of me as kid.
> ...



+1 for Seeds of Death. 

Other great Tom Baker stories IMHO:
Deadly Assassin - features a great location shot episode in the matrix. Lots no scary sequences including the 'drowning' bit that Mary Whitehouse complained about. 
Terror or the Zygons - great story set in Scotland featuring Loch Ness monster and shape shifting aliens (awesome costumes and featuring in tonight's episode too). 
Talons of Weng Chiang - brilliantly shot Victorian London mystery with Triads and a murderous ventriloquist dummy.


----------



## discobastard (Nov 23, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> Cant comment on hartnell and troughton - but for pertwee I'd say -
> Spearhead from Space.
> Terror of the Autons (first appearence of the master + man eating chair)
> The Daemons - the master as a the village vicar!  And a stone gargoyle that comes to life and scared the shit out of me as kid.
> ...



Pertwee stories, my two favourites are:

Claws of Axos - Pretty funny stuff with some great psychedelic sequences. Aliens in gold body stockings come to drain the earth of its resources etc
Inferno - scientific project drilling to the earths core releases has that turns people into primordial savages with great facial hair. If that wasn't enough, there is a fairly heavy subplot involving a parallel universe where all the Doctors companions and allies are nazi-style evil types. Love it to bits, one of the few longer stories (7 episodes I think) that makes good use of the extended format.


----------



## kittyP (Nov 23, 2013)

PursuedByBears said:


> "An adventure in space and time" was brilliant. It made me cry.  A producers story.  Lovely.



It was really beautifully done I thought


----------



## Epona (Nov 23, 2013)

In terms of classic early Doctor Who episodes, for the Hartnell era I'd recommend The Daleks - the second story of the first doctor and introducing the foes that still menace nearly 50 years on.  If it is true that Marco Polo has been found, then that seems to be a completely awesome Hartnell story, but I've only ever heard the audio track and seen stills.  I also really liked The Aztecs, although it's not often cited as a classic story.

Troughton - The Power of the Daleks, or The Highlanders were both great stories.  The Web of Fear has also been touted as the GREAT lost story, as it has recently been recovered we will see whether it lives up to the hype (I haven't seen it yet, so can't comment).  But for me, Troughton was one of the best Doctors, often with really good stories and concepts.


----------



## Rimbaud (Nov 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> What are the Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee & Tom Baker era DVDs I should buy? 1 representing each era.
> 
> I'm trusting you.



Hartnell - The Daleks. A bit slow but worth watching for obvious reasons.
The Tenth Planet. Introduces the Cybermen and it's also the first time the Doctor regenerates - the final episode is missing but they've recently released a DVD with an animated version alongside the original audio.

Troughton - The War Games - Really long but excellent 12 episode story which introduces The Time Lords. This is also where he regenerates for a second time.
Also, The Invasion - classic Cybermen story, features UNIT and Brigadier Lethbridge Stewart. 8 episodes long and 2 are missing but reanimated on the DVD.

Pertwee - Spearhead from Space - Following immediately after The War Games, and the first one in colour. Plastic shop dummies come to life and start killing pedestrians. Quite scary.
Inferno - Drilling into the Earth's core causes people to regress into aggressive monkeys. The Doctor goes into a parallel universe in which the same project is being carried out under some sort of totalitarian government and he meets his companion's fascist alter egos.

Tom Baker - Genesis of the Daleks - Classic. A lot of important backstory for the Daleks as well, introduces Davros.
 The Seeds of Doom - Some sort of evil plant is found in Antarctica which kills people. 
City of Death - Douglas Adams' best Dr Who story, one of the more light hearted stories and enormously entertaining. Great chemistry between Tom Baker and his companion Lalla Ward who he ended up marrying for a while.

For the other Doctors - Peter Davison's best is Caves of Androzani, and for Colin Baker Vengeance on Varos is great, which is set in a dystopian society centered around reality TV and executions for entertainment. For Sylvester McCoy watch The Curse of Fenric which features aquatic vampires and Nazis.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 23, 2013)

Warming up my timelord circuits now with a bit of Destiny of the Daleks.

Regenerating Romana trying on different 'bodies' is a curious piece of who mythology!


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 23, 2013)

Earth Shock is another excellent Peter Davison story; the return of the Cybermen after quite a few years. Also one of those Dr Who stories where an incident sets off a famous historical event.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 23, 2013)

and for Cribbins fans especially, the Doctor who edition of 'Pointless celebrities is about 2 thirds through on bbc1.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 23, 2013)

is it sad that although im expecting to be disappointed , I'm also getting a bit excited now ? 

I'l  answer it , YES


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Earth Shock is another excellent Peter Davison story; the return of the Cybermen after quite a few years. Also one of those Dr Who stories where an incident sets off a famous historical event.


No 80s Doctors, thanks. I'd rather not know.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> No 80s Doctors, thanks. I'd rather not know.


What?  That story is great! As is The Caves of Androzani mentioned earlier. Features a young Robert Glenister.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> is it sad that although im expecting to be disappointed , I'm also getting a bit excited now ?
> 
> I'l  answer it , YES


I'm insanely excited. I'm 48, but in my defence. Actually, I have no excuse.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> What?  That story is great! As is The Caves of Androzani mentioned earlier. Features a young Robert Glenister.


Sorry. I skipped from Tom Baker to McGann. Every clip I've seen since has made me want to keep it that way. Including the Five Doctors, which I have on DVD.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

It's weird. I was 5 when it went on extended hiatus, so when... one of the Doctors (possibly McCoy) said a generation lost its Doctor, I feel like I was part of that generation. All this is to say I don't think I've got quite the connection that others do to Who, and I'm a little envious of what it means to you all as I feel like, should my generation have had a Doctor, I would have been quite the little Whovian.

I hope this evening lives up to your excitement


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Sorry. I skipped from Tom Baker to McGann. Every clip I've seen since has made me want to keep it that way. Including the Five Doctors, which I have on DVD.


Actually, in 2009, The Caves of Androzani was voted by fans the "best Dr. Who story in history". You're missing out.

The '80s is my era, as a matter of fact. I went from the end of Tom Baker's era to just when Sylvester McCoy joined, which is when I stopped watching it, until they started running repeats on what was then UK Gold.  I wasn't expecting McCoy's take over and it was a bit of a shock to me when I watched the first episode of Time and the Rani and suddently Colin Baker wasn't in it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> Actually, in 2009, The Caves of Androzani was voted by fans the "best Dr. Who story in history". You're missing out.
> 
> The '80s is my era, as a matter of fact. I went from the end of Tom Baker's era to just when Sylvester McCoy joined, which is when I stopped watching it, until they started running repeats on what was then UK Gold.  I wasn't expecting McCoy's take over and it was a bit of a shock to me when I watched the first episode of Time and the Rani and suddently Colin Baker wasn't in it.


Davidson was the reason I stopped watching Dr Who. I just didn't believe him as the Doctor, and still don't. Everything about him was wrong, from my point of view. 

I started with Troughton, and still remember Fraser Hines being put back in his own time.

 The Doctor was never wishy washy and insipid, which Davidson just is.


----------



## Rimbaud (Nov 23, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> It's weird. I was 5 when it went on extended hiatus, so when... one of the Doctors (possibly McCoy) said a generation lost its Doctor, I feel like I was part of that generation. All this is to say I don't think I've got quite the connection that others do to Who, and I'm a little envious of what it means to you all as I feel like, should my generation have had a Doctor, I would have been quite the little Whovian.
> 
> I hope this evening lives up to your excitement



I was born in 1988 so I'm also part of the Doctor-less generation. Nevertheless, the BBC ran a series of repeats when I was kid, and I absolutely adored it, so every Christmas and birthday up until I became a grouchy teenager, I would receive a Doctor Who VHS from my parents and would get any out my local library that I could find - with the help of the internet I've watched almost all of the existing classic episodes by now. When I was a kid I deeply resented that none of my friends were as into it as I was, especially because of always hearing nostalgic reminiscences of people who were lucky enough to have been kids when it was on TV - I remember writing a letter to the BBC at the age of 8 demanding it gets brought back, complete with a cartoon picture of a dalek saying "BRING BACK DOCTOR WHO OR I WILL EXTERMINATE YOU!!!" When the false dawn of the TV movie came out, I was convinced that my letter had caused it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> The Doctor was never wishy washy and insipid, which Davidson just is.


The Roger Moore of Doctor Who?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

Rimbaud said:


> I remember writing a letter to the BBC at the age of 8 demanding it gets brought back, complete with a cartoon picture of a dalek saying "BRING BACK DOCTOR WHO OR I WILL EXTERMINATE YOU!!!" When the false dawn of the TV movie came out, I was convinced that my letter had caused it.




After my post it did occur to me that McGann was perhaps sort of my Doctor. I'm definitely one of those who wishes he'd had more than that rather poor TV movie.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm insanely excited. I'm 48, but in my defence. Actually, I have no excuse.



IM 42


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> The Roger Moore of Doctor Who?




(I've never liked Bond, mind. Not my sort of thing).


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> IM 42


These are all my own teeth you know.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 23, 2013)

My top ones aren't


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 23, 2013)

anyway back to dr what...


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> anyway back to dr what...


Not long to go! Woo oo, woo ooo oo.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

You're a grown man


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> You're a grown man


My kids bought me a t-shirt once that says "responsible adult". I'm not sure why they thought it needed saying...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

Perhaps they thought you needed reminding?


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

Right. Radio silence now. See you on the other side!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 23, 2013)

Why are they pretending that the Dr never talks about what Hurt Doctor did during the Time War when he did just that during Tenant's time.


----------



## Leafster (Nov 23, 2013)

Tom!


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

I really enjoyed that.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

Rather good 


Leafster said:


> Tom!


'cept that bit


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

it was everything I had hope. And Tom 'Putting it now' Baker turning up at the end


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

brief capaldi as well, and even old ecdclescake


----------



## Leafster (Nov 23, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> Rather good 'cept that bit


He"s THE Doctor


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

biggest lol was the set up for how the door was unlocked the whole time.

was scientist girl wearing Toms scarf as deliberate homage?


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 23, 2013)

that was brilliant.  a bit tricky for the first act, where the story didn't seem to flow or make a great deal of any kind of sense... but in the end i was bouncing up and down clapping my hands.  tiny flash of capaldi-eyes, too!


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 23, 2013)

All good fun. Would have preferred McCoy to Baker at the end but ah well


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 23, 2013)

Underwhelming, confused, mess.

If that's the best they can do for a half century then Moffat needs to find a new job IMO. Wheeling on dear old Tom Baker for some bizarre cameo that makes no sense...made no sense.

Whoever played the Brigadier's daughter ought to lay off the botox.

Complete anti climax. What on earth was the point of having Rose in it? I'm sick of her awful acting. 

And given that none of the other doctor's remember they saved Gallifrey it's all meaningless.


----------



## spirals (Nov 23, 2013)

I really enjoyed that!


----------



## Leafster (Nov 23, 2013)

I was expecting to be disappointed but I wasn't.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> It's weird. I was 5 when it went on extended hiatus, so when... one of the Doctors (possibly McCoy) said a generation lost its Doctor, I feel like I was part of that generation. All this is to say I don't think I've got quite the connection that others do to Who, and I'm a little envious of what it means to you all as I feel like, should my generation have had a Doctor, I would have been quite the little Whovian.
> 
> I hope this evening lives up to your excitement




sylvester was my doc as well. I kept the faith during the4 wilderness years, magazine subscription, vhs collections.

such a winner


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

Leafster said:


> He"s THE Doctor


Oh come on, all that "I'm you. You're me". Yes, thanks Tom, someone really needed to bang that nail on the head and you were the one to do it, because otherwise the audience would have been completely lost in time and space  


spanglechick said:


> tiny flash of capaldi-eyes, too!


"All _thirteen_ of them"!  Did like that bit 


DotCommunist said:


> was scientist girl wearing Toms scarf as deliberate homage?


I would say...yes


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 23, 2013)

Perhaps children's programmes about time-travelling aliens aren't for you, Awesome Wells. 

Liked that.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Nov 23, 2013)

my snores annoyed the rest of the family apparently. was it any good ?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 23, 2013)

Not what I was expecting but pretty good


----------



## Belushi (Nov 23, 2013)

OMFG Tom Baker


----------



## Quartz (Nov 23, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> Not what I was expecting but pretty good



My thoughts precisely.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> And given that none of the other doctor's remember they saved Gallifrey it's all meaningless.


Not to the 2.whatever billion kids that didn't die that day 

Also, he didn't remember for 400 years, but he does now as the, um, twelfth Doctor...?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 23, 2013)

Whatever the fuck is happening on BBC3 now needs to stop, though. It's like a Doctor Who-themed telethon from hell.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Nov 23, 2013)

Capaldi-eyes looked promisingly mad as well.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

In case you were wondering, don't turn over for the after party. Just better not to.

e2a:





Silas Loom said:


> Whatever the fuck is happening on BBC3 now needs to stop, though. It's like a Doctor Who-themed telethon from hell.


Yeah, see.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 23, 2013)

not-bono-ever said:


> my snores annoyed the rest of the family apparently. was it any good ?



Wish I was as cool as you.


----------



## mentalchik (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> it was everything I had hope. And Tom 'Putting it now' Baker turning up at the end




did a little excitement wee when i heard his voice..............


----------



## Quartz (Nov 23, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Whatever the fuck is happening on BBC3 now needs to stop, though. It's like a Doctor Who-themed telethon from hell.



I'm recording it just in case.


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2013)

I only watched it in the hope Tom Baker would get to make a brief appearance, so quite happy here.


----------



## snadge (Nov 23, 2013)

Where on earth can I see this, do I have to wait a week or so before it is available on Iplayer?


----------



## Belushi (Nov 23, 2013)

More enjoyable than I thought it would be, Tom Baker at the end was the icing on the cake


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2013)

As for the thing on BBC3 now and all the other shit surrounding the anniversary, if there is one thing the BBC put effort into its blowing their own trumpet, self-obsessed grandiose knobs.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 23, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Perhaps children's programmes about time-travelling aliens aren't for you, Awesome Wells.
> 
> Liked that.


No, just the episdoes that are badly written.

Couldn't they do something more iconic for the 50th? Where were the likes of Davros, Omega, Romana, the Master, and so on. That tenant episde with Sarah Jane would have been better (Elizabeth Sladen's sad demise nothwithstanding). 

Instead we get some nonsense about Zygons (a wasted opportunity to use a classic villain), an awful actress playing Queen Liz's eyebrows, and an excuse to shoehorn Tenant in. John Hurt made no sense as the doctor at all. The Time War now loses al it's cache and mystery.

I was hoping for something much more iconic, even nostalgic. A real homage and a treat for the fans. Instead we got another gtarbled attempt by Moffat to be clever clever with the timey wimey whiel shoehorning in banter.

And it's back to Trent Reznor for the Christmas episode. Why? Didn't we reconcile that when Clara entered the doctor's timeline?

Oh dear. Tom's tenure on the show should be remembered with dignity and not this ridiculous cameo - and at the expense of all the other doctors. It's like a father playing favourites. No chance of the other Baker being curator was there!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Whatever the fuck is happening on BBC3 now needs to stop, though. It's like a Doctor Who-themed telethon from hell.




quite good though. Needs a panel of judges, televised voting and weeping doctors to make it truly naff


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 23, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> No chance of the other Baker being curator was there!



It would have taken a pretty large crowbar, certainly.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 23, 2013)

snadge said:


> Where on earth can I see this, do I have to wait a week or so before it is available on Iplayer?



You can watch it in iPlayer right now. Go to the BBC1 live stream, and wehen it prompts you to rewind the current programme just rewind it to 7:50pm.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

I saw the crap baker on a Doctor Who documentary couple of days ago. The bitterness practically dripped from his every word


----------



## Belushi (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> quite good though. Needs a panel of judges, televised voting and weeping doctors to make it truly naff


 
They should have you on in the early hours as a random who was at school with a doctor


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 23, 2013)

So Hurt wasn't a valeyard or anything, he was a legitimate Doctor and regenerates into Ecclescake.

Which means that Capaldi is the last Doctor. Or they cheat.

Actually, since only thirteen turn up to fake the end of the Time War, perhaps they have tacitly accepted that canon, particularly Mawdryn Undead, can't be unwritten.


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> Oh dear. Tom's tenure on the show should be remembered with dignity and not this ridiculous cameo - and at the expense of all the other doctors. It's like a father playing favourites. No chance of the other Baker being curator was there!



Well he is the oldest surviving actor to play the doctor, may well not be around for the next one, and he and many fans may regret refusing to appear in a previous multi-doctor special.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 23, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> Couldn't they do something more iconic for the 50th? Where were the likes of Davros, Omega, Romana, the Master, and so on. That tenant episde with Sarah Jane would have been better (Elizabeth Sladen's sad demise nothwithstanding).



But then the character of the Doctor wouldn't be the main attraction. Moffat doesn't always make the right call, but he did this time


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 23, 2013)

Absolute brilliance


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> Which means that Capaldi is the last Doctor. Or they cheat.



I think they've already been steadily moving away from the maximum number of regenerations thing.


----------



## AverageJoe (Nov 23, 2013)

John Hurt was amazing. Even his raised eyebrow acted all the others offscreen


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> So Hurt wasn't a valeyard or anything, he was a legitimate Doctor and regenerates into Ecclescake.
> 
> Which means that Capaldi is the last Doctor. Or they cheat.



I was convinced hurt was going to regenerate into Hartnell. It wouldn't have made any sense but it would have been great. Not loving Hurts goatee in this telthon. They should have called this 'doctors in need'


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 23, 2013)

The 10 minute prequel, Night of the Doctor, blew this out the water IMO.

It's sad really. Hopefully Capaldi will be a real shot in the arm for the show, but I fear Moffat just cannot string a plot together at all. Plus it's clear the show is now aimed squarely at the kids, way more than it ever was. It used to have more universal appeal, but, as with all things in these sordid times of ours, it's become a bit of a self parody; a cartoon of itself.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Not loving Hurts goatee in this telthon. They should have called this 'doctors in need'



Tee, Also, hee.


----------



## snadge (Nov 23, 2013)

Lol, never mind, found it, was quite well hidden, at least for me.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 23, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> as with all things in these sordid times of ours, it's become a bit of a self parody; a cartoon of itself.




Luckily this is something to which you are immune. Oh, wait.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

elbows said:


> I think they've already been steadily moving away from the maximum number of regenerations thing.




mini episode, mgann goes to see this order of something and they give him advanced time lord sciebce which means he is now beyond the 12


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> mini episode, mgann goes to see this order of something and they give him advanced time lord sciebce which means he is now beyond the 12



What, did that happen?


----------



## goldenecitrone (Nov 23, 2013)

Belushi said:


> More enjoyable than I thought it would be, Tom Baker at the end was the icing on the cake



That voice. All good, daft stuff, but that bit sent a shiver down my spine as for the briefest of moments my nine-year old self called out to me down the decades. Called me a cunt as well, little wanker.


----------



## wiskey (Nov 23, 2013)

I am not a regular viewer, mostly the sidekicks really grate on me - but I enjoyed that, I spent most of it completely baffled but that seems to be par for the course with DW. 

And it might have been the very first time ever that Billy Piper didn't make me want to punch her in the face


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I saw the crap baker on a Doctor Who documentary couple of days ago. The bitterness practically dripped from his every word


Hardly surprising. Whether you like his protrayal or not, you can't deny he got a raw deal. Sad considering he really liked the character. TV politics. Same for ecclescake too; he only left because the production aspect was ridiculous, allegedly.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

elbows said:


> I think they've already been steadily moving away from the maximum number of regenerations thing.


In gratitude for him saying Gallifrey, the Time Lords will grant him unlimited regeneration.


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I saw the crap baker on a Doctor Who documentary couple of days ago. The bitterness practically dripped from his every word



A small portion of Colin Bakers bitterness was fair enough, since I doubt it was his fault that they made his character an unlikeable tit when he was recovering from regeneration, which got his run off to a very bad start. Plus that part of the 1980s was a bit of a mess at the BBC, due to a bunch of the 1980's bullshit management culture & politics in general.

I won't give him a total free pass though, he was capable of sucking without these factors.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

it was a little confusing in places but it still made sense- thats how it goes with time travel progs. For a time travel show Who often just does 'turn up here and save the day' whereas in this one the time travel aspect was important to the plot mechanics.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Nov 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> In gratitude for him saying Gallifrey, the Time Lords will grant him unlimited regeneration.


This.

It was a imposed by them in the first place


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

Just flicked back to the afterparty to see them showing off all the companions who are there - camera pans across them all, ends with Bernard Cribbins giving it the double peace-sign in a bright red jumper


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

Lungbarrow says the gallifreyans life cycle is woven in by the House Looms but I think thats not accepted lore


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

Very little Torchwood mention, save the magic bracelet


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Lungbarrow says the gallifreyans life cycle is woven in by the House Looms but I think thats not accepted lore


It's sentences like that which make this whole thing seem a bit silly


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 23, 2013)

What happened to the Zygons?


----------



## wiskey (Nov 23, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> Just flicked back to the afterparty to see them showing off all the companions who are there - camera pans across them all, ends with Bernard Cribbins giving it the double peace-sign in a bright red jumper



He is my hero!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

fen_boy said:


> What happened to the Zygons?




we were not informed of the outcome of the negotiations but we take the matter as solved.


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2013)

And now for Patrick Troughton being rude about Colin Baker (give it just over a minute).


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

excellent, the live feed from LA fucked up so badly nobody will ever know what opinion One Direction has on the show


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> we were not informed of the outcome of the negotiations but we take the matter as solved.


i like to think they're still in there negotiating.


----------



## Quartz (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> mini episode, mgann goes to see this order of something and they give him advanced time lord sciebce which means he is now beyond the 12



Also it lays the foundation for a female Doctor.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

oh they are repeating the docu with surly baker in it struggling to conceal his bad cess.

I still rate Trial of a Time Lord, and his fro back in the day was a rival tio gene wilders. Nobody has ever beat phil spektor on that front though- but Phils in jail and they aren't so swingsw and roundabouts


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

Quartz said:


> Also it lays the foundation for a female Doctor.




in fairness that was already established- theres some suggestion that normal gallifreyans can control the outcome of the regeneration whereas the Doc hasn't that control- I think it was 'The Terrestrial Index' series guidebook said that stealing that type 50 Tardis so brazenly was what fucked up the psychic bond between Time Lord and Tardis

the result being that the chameleon circuit got stuck as a police box and the Doc became very confused and thought Susan was his grandaughter

massive retconning of course but thats how they do


----------



## redsquirrel (Nov 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> What are the Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee & Tom Baker era DVDs I should buy? 1 representing each era.
> 
> I'm trusting you.


Not sure if all of these are available on DVD but IMO the best episodes are 
Hartnell - _The Time Meddler_
Pertwee - _Deamons _of _The Green Death._
Baker - Absolutely loads of great stories; _Genesis of the Daleks, The Robots of Death, The Talons of Weng Chiang_ and _City of Death _are probably the top ones IMO.

Troughton is difficult because so many are lost.


----------



## Quartz (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> in fairness that was already established



Indeed, but it was explicitly stated in that episode, putting the matter beyond all doubt.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 23, 2013)

I wanted to like it but I'd go with mess.  Zygons were naff and pointless, but most of all the ending was shit and telegraphed. Hadn't they already said the time war was 'timelocked' in a previous episode, the one with the master in it?  That one had the timelords going mad and vicious.  It also had the daleks off stage and never really being part of it.  Never really got going for me.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

they've found lost troughton now though, not all of it alas.

the rumour that yhey had been found in idi amins private stash of film was so stupid I can't believe I fell for it


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 23, 2013)

I liked it when smith called tennant dick van dyke.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

I did think their initial interplay was done quite well.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> I liked it when smith called tennant dick van dyke.


There were lots of good jokes.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 23, 2013)

Wilf said:


> I wanted to like it but I'd go with mess.  Zygons were naff and pointless, but most of all the ending was shit and telegraphed. Hadn't they already said the time war was 'timelocked' in a previous episode, the one with the master in it?  That one had the timelords going mad and vicious.  It also had the daleks off stage and never really being part of it.  Never really got going for me.



The Time War was resolved in a different way this time, took all the Doctors to do it too. You see, it's a big ball of whatever the script demands.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 23, 2013)

elbows said:


> A small portion of Colin Bakers bitterness was fair enough, since I doubt it was his fault that they made his character an unlikeable tit when he was recovering from regeneration, which got his run off to a very bad start. Plus that part of the 1980s was a bit of a mess at the BBC, due to a bunch of the 1980's bullshit management culture & politics in general.
> 
> I won't give him a total free pass though, he was capable of sucking without these factors.


I liked Colin Baker.  They treated him like shit tbh. He explains it all it "The Colin Baker Years" VHS.

And he was supposed to be an "unlikable tit" in the beginning. That was the point. We weren't supposed to like him.  The poison that had caused him to regenerate had sent him a bit doolaly.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 23, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> There were lots of good jokes.



I really liked all the John Hurt Doctor comments on the older from his point of view Doctors. A bit self-referential I suppose, but funny.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 23, 2013)

Oh and that 'if we remove the planet, the daleks will destroy each other' was really, _really_ shit.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2013)

I'm kinda curious as to how all that read in the script...


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 23, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I really liked all the John Hurt Doctor comments on the older from his point of view Doctors. A bit self-referential I suppose, but funny.




'what are you afraid of about age? You both look at me with dread inyour eyes'


so out with 29 yo smith an in with late 40s capaldi then


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 23, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> late 40s capaldi



55


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 23, 2013)

Wilf said:


> Oh and that 'if we remove the planet, the daleks will destroy each other' was really, _really_ shit.


No it wasn't; it was great. I was very happy with the episode. I was dreading Moffat fucking it up, because, let's face it, he has previous, but it really delivered. And all the Doctors were in it. 8)


----------



## Wilf (Nov 23, 2013)

For Danny


----------



## gosub (Nov 23, 2013)

Having watched Tom Baker die when I was a kid, his bit troubled me but iirc the only dr whose death isn't on tape is Colin Baker and given the choice I'd say fuck canon


----------



## Pingu (Nov 23, 2013)

really enjoyed that


----------



## elbows (Nov 23, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> And he was supposed to be an "unlikable tit" in the beginning. That was the point. We weren't supposed to like him.  The poison that had caused him to regenerate had sent him a bit doolaly.



Initially yes, and thats pretty much what I said by mentioning it wasn't his fault his character started off as such an unlikable tit. He was supposed to be a darker doctor, but he was axed too quickly to unravel the depth of his character.

That doesn't change the fact it was a mistake, making the doctor unlikeable was never going to go down well with the audience, at least not in the way it was done back then and not for such a prolonged period. If it had been done slightly more subtly and the tabloids hadn't gone on a  feeding frenzy then it might have worked out better.

I'm not sure it was the poison that sent him wobbly though, just the stress of regeneration and then a different personality.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 23, 2013)

elbows said:


> Initially yes, and thats pretty much what I said by mentioning it wasn't his fault his character started off as such an unlikable tit. He was supposed to be a darker doctor, but he was axed too quickly to unravel the depth of his character.


IIRC there was long break during his tenure.  Then someone decided 3 years was "enough" for one Dr (even though TB went on quite happily for nearly a decade), so they sacked him, even though a lot of his 3 years was spend in hiatus.  Then they wanted him to come back for the regeneration scene - and only that scene - and he wasn't having any of it because he didn't want to have to commit to such a small part that far in advance.  I'm pretty sure that's the way he told it.



> That doesn't chance the fact it was a mistake, making the doctor unlikeable was never going to go down well with the audience, at least not in the way it was done back then and not for such a prolonged period. If it had been done slightly more subtly and the tabloids hadn't gone on a  feeding frenzy then it might have worked out better.


It didn't on for that long did it iirc? Just one or maybe two stories.



> I'm not sure it was the poison that sent him wobbly though, just the stress of regeneration and then a different personality.


I think it was.  The Peter Davison Dr says something along the lines of "Feels different this time" just before he regenerates.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 23, 2013)

gosub said:


> Having watched Tom Baker die when I was a kid, his bit troubled me but iirc the only dr whose death isn't on tape is Colin Baker and given the choice I'd say fuck canon


Actually we do see "Colin Baker" regenerate at the beginning of Time and the Rani.  Except that "Colin Baker" is actually Sylvester McCoy in a blonde wig and CB's costume.


----------



## elbows (Nov 24, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> IIRC there was long break during his tenure.  Then someone decided 3 years was "enough" for one Dr (even though TB went on quite happily for nearly a decade), so they sacked him, even though a lot of his 3 years was spend in hiatus.  Then they wanted him to come back for the regeneration scene - and only that scene - and he wasn't having any of it because he didn't want to have to commit to such a small part that far in advance.  I'm pretty sure that's the way he told it.



3 years was actually advice that actors like Troughton had given to some of his replacements (e.g. Peter Davison) to avoid being typecast. If it was an explanation given for sacking Colin Baker then it was just an excuse, the truth consisting of many other things including Michael Grade being a shit. In any case the demise of the original run of Doctor Who was not many years away and can't really be blamed on Colin, demonstrating how much other crap was going on during that period. 



> It didn't on for that long did it iirc? Just one or maybe two stories.



It was toned down somewhat fairly quickly, but various personality attributes that many may have struggled to love lingered on quite noticeably throughout his entire tenure. I was still at school during the original showing of his tenure and I didn't like it at all at the time, though I've watched some of his episodes far more recently and thought some of them were not too bad at all. I do have a problem with some of the writing and the way the low-budget effects look in the 1980's Who, for some reason I find the 1970's stuff far more forgiving of such shortcomings, and generally more charming.



> I think it was.  The Peter Davison Dr says something along the lines of "Feels different this time" just before he regenerates.



Regeneration details tended to be rather inconsistent in the original runs of the series. It wasn't even called regeneration the first couple of times, and when Patrick Troughton became Pertwee it was punishment by the time lords who just referred to it as changing his appearance. When Pertwee regenerated into Tom Baker, someone appeared to nudge the process on and did advise his companions that the braincells would be shaken up and that his behaviour may be erratic, so there was a precedent for that aspect.


----------



## Epona (Nov 24, 2013)

Sadly, I fell asleep at 6pm and could not be woken to watch the episode when it was aired  but I have since downloaded and watched it - sorry, but I thought it was great, really enjoyed it.  Also watched The Five(ish) Doctors, which was very funny and entertaining.


----------



## agricola (Nov 24, 2013)

Watched it after finishing work, my overwhelming thought after seeing that is to feel even sorrier for Martha Jones than I did before.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 24, 2013)

Headteacher at the school: I. Chesterton.

Tennant obvs taken from the gap between Waters of Mars and The End of Time.

RTD had three hours to finish Tennant and didn't get close to what Moffat did in almost half that tonight. Neat.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 24, 2013)

The Dr who seems the most bitter would have to be Eccleston, would it have killed him to have put in an appearance?


----------



## Rimbaud (Nov 24, 2013)

Dragged my girlfriend (who has never watched an episode) along to watch it in 3D at the cinema, I thought it was great and I think she found it enjoyable too even if she kept saying "nerd alert!" at people in the audience who were wearing Fezs, bow ties, long scarves and carrying toy sonic screwdrivers. Tom Baker's cameo made no sense but I didn't care in the slightest. Loved the "reverse the polarity" in-joke as well.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 24, 2013)

And the icing on the cake...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01m3kfy

this with 'adventures in time and space' and 'The day of the doctor' make me more than happy with the celebrations.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 24, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> The Dr who seems the most bitter would have to be Eccleston, would it have killed him to have put in an appearance?



he was in it v. briefly. Blink n miss him briefly


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 24, 2013)

Not in person, as it were. A still and a clip.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> he was in it v. briefly. Blink n miss him briefly


He was edited in, I think one of the pictures I posted seems to illustrate the regeneration of Hurt into him - I could be wrong 

The basic point I'm making is any actor who plays the part of Who ought to know by now how iconic the role is  and there's bound to be follow-up expectations. It's no secret Eccleston had problem on set, but I thought those people had mainly moved on. It's a pity him being so moody about it because he's probably still my favourite Dr.


----------



## Kuso (Nov 24, 2013)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> This.
> 
> It was a imposed by them in the first place



I thought it was Rose/ the bomb saying he'll live over and over to remember the moment


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 24, 2013)

ruffneck23 said:


> And the icing on the cake...
> 
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01m3kfy
> ...


it was good but not hilarious. Barrowmans secret family was funny


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 24, 2013)

Rimbaud said:


> Baker's cameo made no sense but I didn't care in the slightest. Loved the "reverse the polarity" in-joke as well.


 Watch it again and listen to the first few seconds of dialogue and it does make some sense. He is not playing the Fourth Doctor. There is a line about 'revisiting old faces'. Moffat wrote that he always wanted to do an episode with an unknown Doctor considering a future one like the 45th or something before settling on Hurt. It seems he did both.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 24, 2013)

Thanks for all the recommendations.  I've ordered:

Genesis of the Daleks  
Tom Baker

The Dalek Invasion Of Earth  
William Hartnell

The Dæmons  
Jon Pertwee

The Invasion 
Patrick Troughton

Looking forward to it.  Now I just have to intercept the post before Mrs La Rouge, or I'll end up being given them for Christmas!  She has previous...


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 24, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> Watch it again and listen to the first few seconds of dialogue and it does make some sense. He is not playing the Fourth Doctor. There is a line about 'revisiting old faces'. Moffat wrote that he always wanted to do an episode with an unknown Doctor considering a future one like the 45th or something before settling on Hurt. It seems he did both.


And Tom really had to be included in person, because he always regretted not taking part in the Five Doctors.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 24, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> Watch it again and listen to the first few seconds of dialogue and it does make some sense. He is not playing the Fourth Doctor. There is a line about 'revisiting old faces'. Moffat wrote that he always wanted to do an episode with an unknown Doctor considering a future one like the 45th or something before settling on Hurt. It seems he did both.



So that's more canon suggesting further Doctors following the 13th. Humph.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 24, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Thanks for all the recommendations.  I've ordered:
> 
> Genesis of the Daleks
> Tom Baker
> ...


 I've seen all of those and they're all good. Let me know whether the animated episodes of The Invasion (complete with Bad Wolf reference) are worth the price of the Dvd. My VHS only has the brigadier doing a brief synopsis of the missing episodes.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 24, 2013)

John Hurt was great and all, but there's really no good reason they couldn't have kept Paul McGann for that role.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 24, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> So that's more canon suggesting further Doctors following the 13th. Humph.


 They also seem to be acknowledging the limit hopefully they will resolve it. Hurt seems to count. I'm hoping he was added in so that Moffat could get cracking on a valeyard storyline at Christmas.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 24, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> They also seem to be acknowledging the limit



Yes, true.


----------



## Chz (Nov 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> it was good but not hilarious. Barrowmans secret family was funny


Oh come on, that was _pure_ fan service. They don't do an awful lot of that, so you have to appreciate a solid half hour of the stuff.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 24, 2013)




----------



## RedDragon (Nov 24, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> John Hurt was great and all, but there's really no good reason they couldn't have kept Paul McGann for that role.


It would be cool to do a 'lost years' series with McGann, as he is now - that mini prequel thing wasn't nearly enough.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 24, 2013)

Balbi said:


>


Fucking Dalek cunts.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 24, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> What are the Hartnell, Troughton, Pertwee & Tom Baker era DVDs I should buy? 1 representing each era.
> 
> I'm trusting you.



Tomb of the cybermen - Troughton
Spearhead from Space - Pertwee
Dalek invasion of earth - Hertnell
City of Death - Tom Baker


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 24, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> Underwhelming, confused, mess.
> .


Sadly true. 

Total ball bags. A crow-bared in Tombaker was the best bit. 
They really should have tried to at least write some sort of 'story'. 

I'm super massively disappointed. The Davidson made comedy thing on after it was a million times better and more appropriate for a 50th, and that was pretty shit really.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 24, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> It would be cool to do a 'lost years' series with McGann, as he is now - that mini prequel thing wasn't nearly enough.


I agree. 

That would indeed we a wonderful spin off.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 24, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> The Dr who seems the most bitter would have to be Eccleston, would it have killed him to have put in an appearance?



I think that's slightly unfair.
He was treated like shit, and because he has been very nice about not spilling all that shit all over the papers he gets to look like the bad guy.
I wouldn't go back to work for people who were dicks to me.

The writers need a jolly good kick up the arse, there are so few decent new episodes. Just dancing clowns.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 24, 2013)

the story was about how he ended the time war bloodlessly, by a calculation he'd been working on for 1200 odd years. He knew he had to start making it all those years back because he remembers travelling to save gallifrey in the first place alongside his future selfs. Closed casual loop. A good time travel paradox and something we don't see enough of on Doctor Who. If I could travel in time I'd go do freaky paradox stuff all the time.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 24, 2013)

It also set up the regeneration with him no longer being afraid to grow up.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 24, 2013)

I think Tom Baker was the worst Doctor. There, I said it


----------



## mrsfran (Nov 24, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Sadly true.
> 
> Total ball bags. A crow-bared in Tombaker was the best bit.
> They really should have tried to at least write some sort of 'story'.
> ...



I am shocked - SHOCKED - you thought it was shit. I thought you'd skip in here writing a love poem to that episode.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 24, 2013)

I've said it before- he's not the best doctor but he is always voted the best because a) people love Tom Baker the man and vote for that rather than carefuly considering the best by analyzing who best portrayed the actual character. And that wasn't Tom

b) demographically cos of his long run of ten years theres simply way more fans for whom he was 'their' doctor. And thats another crap way to vote in 'best doctor' polls. You can't trust the judgement of nostalgia, look at how much I still rate Hapiness Patrol


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 24, 2013)

Seemed like he relied on his reputation for being an IRL eccentric nutcase rather than actually bothering to do any acting. Despite his long tenure it felt like he was the least committed of all them to the role.

Same reason Richard O'Brien (much as I love him) would be a terrible Doctor


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 24, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> Just flicked back to the afterparty to see them showing off all the companions who are there - camera pans across them all, ends with Bernard Cribbins giving it the double peace-sign in a bright red jumper


Found it 







He's on Twitter himself, if you're so inclined 

Oh, just checked and he's only made 17 Tweets, the last of which was Jan 2010


----------



## strung out (Nov 24, 2013)

Christopher Eccleston was initially going to do the 50th in the John Hurt role, but then when it came to sorting out the details, he wasn't available at the right times for filming, and didn't feel strongly enough to change his work schedule.

It wasn't anything to do with how he was or wasn't treated 8 years ago, despite what some might have you believe.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 24, 2013)

And when strung out tells you, he's got the best bloody sources in the business


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 24, 2013)

the good news about christmas regeneration story is that it means we should be in a chance with not getting the usual mediocre xmas accesable to dicks who only watch on christmas people episode


----------



## Balbi (Nov 24, 2013)

The Christmas Invasion was good exactly because it was a regeneration story.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 24, 2013)

opening sequence where the copper walks towards the old junkyard- before we saw the tithead the shadow looked like hartnels shadow- if that was deliberate it was genius. I had my heart in my mouth thinking they'd done some TV wizadry and brought him back


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 24, 2013)

it clearly wasn't anywhere in shoreditch despite the school sign. not unless shoreditch is in the suburbs somewhere.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 24, 2013)

Balbi said:


> The Christmas Invasion was good exactly because it was a regeneration story.


i'll think you'll find easter is good for regeneration stories. not xmas.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> the story was about how he ended the time war bloodlessly, by a calculation he'd been working on for 1200 odd years. He knew he had to start making it all those years back because he remembers travelling to save gallifrey in the first place alongside his future selfs. Closed casual loop. A good time travel paradox and something we don't see enough of on Doctor Who. If I could travel in time I'd go do freaky paradox stuff all the time.


as opposed to just doing the freaky stuff you already do to entertain us


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 24, 2013)

Silas Loom said:


> So Hurt wasn't a valeyard or anything, he was a legitimate Doctor and regenerates into Ecclescake.
> 
> Which means that Capaldi is the last Doctor. Or they cheat.
> 
> Actually, since only thirteen turn up to fake the end of the Time War, perhaps they have tacitly accepted that canon, particularly Mawdryn Undead, can't be unwritten.



Hmmm, isn't Hurt's Doctor merely McGann's Doctor at an older age, rather than a seperate regeneration entirely?
In which case, Capaldi's Doctor would only be 12, not 13.


----------



## strung out (Nov 24, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Hmmm, isn't Hurt's Doctor merely McGann's Doctor at an older age, rather than a seperate regeneration entirely?
> In which case, Capaldi's Doctor would only be 12, not 13.


No - you need to watch this


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 24, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Hmmm, isn't Hurt's Doctor merely McGann's Doctor at an older age, rather than a seperate regeneration entirely?
> In which case, Capaldi's Doctor would only be 12, not 13.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 24, 2013)

Balls.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 24, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> It would be cool to do a 'lost years' series with McGann, as he is now - that mini prequel thing wasn't nearly enough.



McGann has done a dozen or so Doctor Who radio adventures as the eighth Doctor, with Sheridan Smith as his companion.  Quite good, too!


----------



## elbows (Nov 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I've said it before- he's not the best doctor but he is always voted the best because a) people love Tom Baker the man and vote for that rather than carefuly considering the best by analyzing who best portrayed the actual character. And that wasn't Tom
> 
> b) demographically cos of his long run of ten years theres simply way more fans for whom he was 'their' doctor. And thats another crap way to vote in 'best doctor' polls. You can't trust the judgement of nostalgia, look at how much I still rate Hapiness Patrol



Surely the character changes due to varying personalities of the different incarnations, albeit with some things in common.

Methods of acting also vary and won't be to everyones taste. And we shouldn't forget the writing, direction etc either. 

The Tom Baker era, which was 7 years not 10, was a mixed bag. There was some very good writing at times, especially during the period that Douglas Adams was involved. The quality of Toms performances vary, but certainly did include periods that went beyond goofing around. Its been a while since I watched them all but off the top of my head he started off playing it a tad more seriously, had some wacky moments that were often in tune with silly writing, had a period where off-screen chemistry with wife-to-be Lalla Ward gave the series a different feel, and then after she had gone and his tenure was coming to an end, had a period where a real sadness and sense of decay came through quite strongly. And it wasn't just the Lalla Ward relationship that influenced things when it came to companions, most of the companions during his tenure had quite a strong effect on the feel of the show and how he played it.

Although Tom Baker was the Doctor when I first started watching it, I was too young to actually have proper memories of his run at the time. Peter Davison is the doctor I remember best. So while I can't quite rule out nostalgia's role in my opinion, most of my opinion is based on re-watching almost all of the Tom Baker series over the last ten years.

In any case one of the great strengths of Who is that the number of different actors playing the part leaves something for everyone, it doesn't really matter if we strongly disagree about who was best or whether a certain doctor was crap. There are classic episodes in every phase of the program anyway, and each to their own.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 24, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i'll think you'll find easter is good for regeneration stories. not xmas.



Pah, that guy only managed to do it once. Amateur.


----------



## elbows (Nov 24, 2013)

If I want to nit-pick about how the BBC have handled the anniversary, I would like to have seen a bit more of a tribute to all the actors who featured strongly in Doctor Who over the years who are no longer with us. Poking at wikipedia last night there are quite a few who are gone now, mostly quite a lot of women who succumbed to cancer and men who had fatal heart attacks.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Nov 24, 2013)

I was wondering about souffle bint's teacher colleague. Surely they couldn't reprise the dual teacher companions, to go with the elderly Doctor again - couldn't they?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 24, 2013)

Cushings doctor only made it as a brief mention jokingly in the comedy one davidson wrote.


I've not seen them in years and I know they are generally considered out of the loop but I remember enjoying them as a kid. Nobody seems to agree though, so perhaps its nostalgia again...


----------



## Wilf (Nov 24, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Sadly true.
> 
> Total ball bags. A crow-bared in Tombaker was the best bit.
> They really should have tried to at least write some sort of 'story'.
> ...


 For me it was watchable rathr than outright ball bag, but the story and lack of tension was the problem.  All the Elizabethan capering was annoying and the zygon stuff wasjust rubbish.  More importantly the resolution was the doctor(s) doing what we knew they'd already done - 'timelocking'.  Tennant's involvement wasn't necessary to the plot, but I can forgive them that, it was just the lack of tension in the thing (apart from the 2 mins when they debate whether to push th button).  None of the doctors or assistants were really at risk or were sacrificed, the whole emphasis was on completing the history.  Another thing (which I saw on thegrauniad comments) was that removing the blood from the docs hands takes a lot of tension out of the character.

Not trying to piss on anyone's cornflakes, but I just found it didn't really deliver.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 24, 2013)

that wasn't timelocking though was it? it was moving the planet to a different universe, so its still findable. Recon thats going to be  a theme for Capaldis run, a search for Gallifrey with adventures along the way


----------



## Belushi (Nov 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Cushings doctor only made it as a brief mention jokingly in the comedy one davidson wrote.
> 
> 
> I've not seen them in years and I know they are generally considered out of the loop but I remember enjoying them as a kid. Nobody seems to agree though, so perhaps its nostalgia again...


 
IIRC they're movie remakes of William Hartnell stories, so Cushing is playing the first doctor.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 24, 2013)

Belushi said:


> IIRC they're movie remakes of William Hartnell stories, so Cushing is playing the first doctor.


They are. Also they're not considered "canon" because the character of the Dr is completely re-written: ie, instead of being an alien from another planet, he's just old some guy who's invented a time machine.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> that wasn't timelocking though was it? it was moving the planet to a different universe, so its still findable. Recon thats going to be  a theme for Capaldis run, a search for Gallifrey with adventures along the way


 I will accede on this point.  I'll still need to see the precise difference between the two, with graphs and equations. Incidentally, in the parallel universe, Galifrey became Wigan.


----------



## joustmaster (Nov 24, 2013)

the bit that annoyed me was just before they moved the planet...
"the daleks know something is happening, they are increasing their firepower"

half hearted daleks.


----------



## elbows (Nov 24, 2013)

Apparently some have tried to come up with an explanation of the Cushing films that fits the Who universe by suggesting that they were earth films based on memoires by a former companion.

Been a long time since I've seen them, can only remember Roy Castle goofing around and a Dalek being blinded by gunk.


----------



## captainmission (Nov 24, 2013)

i liked the jokes about screwdrivers not being weapons. Although shortly after they went triple expeliarmus on a darlek.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 24, 2013)

elbows said:


> can only remember Roy Castle goofing around and a Dalek being blinded by gunk.


That just sounds soooo wrong.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 24, 2013)

Bit worried that the 'finding a way home' makes it Quantum Leap meets Voyager meets Ulysses 31.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 24, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> That just sounds soooo wrong.



And yet Roy Castle wanking off onto a Dalek's eye-stalk wouldn't surprise me.  That bloke would do *anything* to break a record!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 24, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Bit worried that the 'finding a way home' makes it Quantum Leap meets Voyager meets Ulysses 31.



Just as long as Neelix doesn't turn up!


----------



## Balbi (Nov 24, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> And yet Roy Castle wanking off onto a Dalek's eye-stalk wouldn't surprise me.  That bloke would do *anything* to break a record!



Dangerwank Level: Ultimate


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Cushings doctor only made it as a brief mention jokingly in the comedy one davidson wrote.
> 
> 
> I've not seen them in years and I know they are generally considered out of the loop but I remember enjoying them as a kid. Nobody seems to agree though, so perhaps its nostalgia again...


I liked them as a kid, but they were on telly today, and I gave them a miss.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 24, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> McGann has done a dozen or so Doctor Who radio adventures as the eighth Doctor, with Sheridan Smith as his companion.  Quite good, too!


He is actually technically the longest serving doctor. 
Though Tom Baker is doing the audio thingys again now too.


----------



## JTG (Nov 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> opening sequence where the copper walks towards the old junkyard- before we saw the tithead the shadow looked like hartnels shadow- if that was deliberate it was genius. I had my heart in my mouth thinking they'd done some TV wizadry and brought him back


Harked back to the shadow looming on the Tardis at the end of the very first episode


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 24, 2013)

JTG said:


> Harked back to the shadow looming on the Tardis at the end of the very first episode



Also that episode opens with a copper wandering past the yard


----------



## JTG (Nov 24, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Also that episode opens with a copper wandering past the yard


True story, forgot that


----------



## JTG (Nov 24, 2013)

joustmaster said:


> the bit that annoyed me was just before they moved the planet...
> "the daleks know something is happening, they are increasing their firepower"
> 
> half hearted daleks.


Not really, just a recalculation of resource allocation moving away from a thorough/longer job to a less thorough but more time imperative attack.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 24, 2013)

did it occur to anyone that the solution to the time war was, in essence, the same strategy that defeated the four weeping angels in 'blink'.  Bloody Moffat...


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 24, 2013)

Also, I watched "the five-ish doctors (reboot)". Loved it lots more than i thought. Loved RTD, the whole Davidson / Georgina Moffet / Tennant aspect, Olivia 'but you're in everything!' Coleman...


----------



## JTG (Nov 24, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> did it occur to anyone that the solution to the time war was, in essence, the same strategy that defeated the four weeping angels in 'blink'.  Bloody Moffat...


Well yeah but it's a good strategy 
And anyway, moving a Tardis is one thing but removing an entire planet intact is quite something else


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 24, 2013)

JTG said:


> Well yeah but it's a good strategy
> And anyway, moving a Tardis is one thing but removing an entire planet intact is quite something else


ahh, now i didn't say it wasn't a bit harder...  but same flipping principle.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 24, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> ahh, now i didn't say it wasn't a bit harder...  but same flipping principle.



Also disappearing/moving planets was a feature of Tennant's last series. I like to think that's what he meant when he said he'd had 400 years to think about it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 24, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> did it occur to anyone that the solution to the time war was, in essence, the same strategy that defeated the four weeping angels in 'blink'.  Bloody Moffat...


Aye, think that was fairly telegraphed.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 24, 2013)

Cheer up love, it may never happen. 

Christopher Eccleston Interview Doctor Who 50th Anniversary


----------



## strung out (Nov 24, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> did it occur to anyone that the solution to the time war was, in essence, the same strategy that defeated the four weeping angels in 'blink'.  Bloody Moffat...


yes! I thought that exactly while watching it


----------



## Lazy Llama (Nov 24, 2013)

Mrs Llama and I spent the day at the Doctor Who Celebration at ExCel.

Really enjoyed it - saw lots of cast (Katy Manning, Lalla Ward, Mark Strickson, Bonnie Langford, Peter Davison, Colin Baker, Sylvester McCoy, Nicholas Briggs, Matt Smith, Jenna-Louise Coleman, Adjoa Andoh).

We had been a bit worried it was going to be all New Who and mostly kids but it really did embrace the history of the show and the panels were all very entertaining.

Photos of mostly iffy quality can be found at here.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 24, 2013)

strung out said:


> yes! I thought that exactly while watching it



spanglechick, it's also the exact solution he used in the Comic Relief special with Davison and Tennant. Remembering doing it because he'd seen himself do it in his past.


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 24, 2013)

Balbi said:


> spanglechick, it's also the exact solution he used in the Comic Relief special with Davison and Tennant. Remembering doing it because he'd seen himself do it in his past.


ahh. don't think i watched that.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 24, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Cheer up love, it may never happen.
> 
> Christopher Eccleston Interview Doctor Who 50th Anniversary



He didn't want to talk about it at all did he?  Surely his time there couldn't have been THAT bad? I mean he had the staring role in probably the biggest programme on UK TV.  I can't help but feel this will be another Tom Baker "thing", in that he doesn't want anything to do with the show, but they years later starts to regret not taking part.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 24, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> ahh. don't think i watched that.





The "I know how because you remember watching me do it" thing.


----------



## Wilf (Nov 24, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Cheer up love, it may never happen.
> 
> Christopher Eccleston Interview Doctor Who 50th Anniversary



 Quite liked him in the role, but fucking hell he's a miserable get - and precious as fuck.  Mind, if they could camp him up a bit, he'd be perfect for the Master's next regeneration.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 24, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Sadly true.
> 
> Total ball bags. A crow-bared in Tombaker was the best bit.
> They really should have tried to at least write some sort of 'story'.
> ...


Dr Who hasn't had a story since Moffat took over. Nothing has been resolved and all that seems to happen, between Matt Smith's Science Chicken act is that River Song appears and behaves all mysterious like.

Even the exit of the Ponds was full of holes? He couldn't just TARDIS them up a few years later? They couldn't travel out of Manhattan and then get picked up? 

If the DR's regeneration limit has been retconned out of existence that's fine; but it shuts down the whole raison detre for the Master during the 70's when he was all Skeletor like and trying to find a way to restart his regenerations again.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 24, 2013)

A look at Who through the eyes of a child, rather than a middle aged sperglord


----------



## strung out (Nov 24, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> Dr Who hasn't had a story since Moffat took over. Nothing has been resolved and all that seems to happen, between Matt Smith's Science Chicken act is that River Song appears and behaves all mysterious like.
> 
> Even the exit of the Ponds was full of holes? He couldn't just TARDIS them up a few years later? They couldn't travel out of Manhattan and then get picked up?
> 
> If the DR's regeneration limit has been retconned out of existence that's fine; but it shuts down the whole raison detre for the Master during the 70's when he was all Skeletor like and trying to find a way to restart his regenerations again.


They won't retcon the regeneration limit, they'll just write in a reason for why the limit can be extended.

We've already had it confirmed that the timelords resurrected the Master, granting him extra regenerations in order for his help in fighting in the Time War. My guess is that Capaldi's Doctor (as the 13th incarnation), will also be granted extra regenerations etc somehow for the Doctor's part in the redemption of the time lords when he re-discovers Gallifrey over the next few years.

Also Wishface, you're patently wrong about there being no good stories since Moffat took over. Vincent and the Doctor was a triumph, Amy's Choice (featuring the Dream Lord) very decent and The Doctor's Wife was a great little episode. There have been a few too many misses for my liking, but let's not pretend there wasn't an awful lot of dodgy storytelling not only from RTD but the classic series was full of it!


----------



## strung out (Nov 24, 2013)

The Girl Who Waited, too - how could I forget!


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 24, 2013)

the one with the older amy was good, too.


----------



## strung out (Nov 24, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> the one with the older amy was good, too.


yep - I only just remembered that one!

I'm not going to pretend that the most recent couple of years has been packed full of classics - I've been slightly dismayed at the quality in fact. But this kind of variation in quality has always happened, it's bound to in a show that's lasted 50 years. One of the strengths of the format though is to consistently improve from dodgy periods and reinvent itself from time to time. 

One of the things that's struck me a lot over the last year, while re-watching some of the classic episodes, is that even in the show's dodgiest moments there are things to love and get excited about. Whether it's charming interplay between the doctor and his companion or a good villain in an otherwise crap story. You should see some of the stories Hartnell and Troughton were lumped with! Some absolute nonsense, but it's rare I watch an episode that doesn't make me smile in some way.


----------



## Plumdaff (Nov 24, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> it clearly wasn't anywhere in shoreditch despite the school sign. not unless shoreditch is in the suburbs somewhere.



It was very evidently a suburb of Cardiff. Like most of London on new Who.


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 24, 2013)

I Must admit I did chuckle at the Shoreditch sign and her direct access to the countryside on a scooter.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 24, 2013)

JUst watched it.

they...




they...



THEY DIDN'T FUCK IT UP!


thank you gods.


I'm not saying it  was  the  best thing ever   but   jesus  i was  so worried  they would  fuck it up  after they fucked up so much new who  but  they didn't this time.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 24, 2013)

Plumdaff said:


> It was very evidently a suburb of Cardiff.



Right from the first moment - that was a very Cardiff wall


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 24, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Tomb of the cybermen - Troughton



Toberman Lives!


----------



## strung out (Nov 24, 2013)

I watched Tomb the other day. It's good in places, but when it was still a lost story, the mythology built it up to be a lot better than it actually was. My favourite Troughton story by far is the War Games - multiple time zones with various wars going on, evil war lords manipulating unsuspecting humans for their own ends, our first visit to Gallifrey and the Time Lords. It's utterly fabulous imo, but at 10 episodes long the pacing is a bit variable.

The Web of Fear (recently discovered) is great too, along with the Mind Robber, which is deliciously surreal.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 24, 2013)

strung out said:


> The Girl Who Waited, too - how could I forget!



The recent haunted house story was good too, with the crooked man monster


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 24, 2013)

Having watched that minisode as well   i  am more and more liking this

and  nice to see mcgann  there

although i fisrts hated him  after i watched  new who  i  felt  that  he was a good  doctor  in a bad show.  much like	most of the RTD era stuff


----------



## Cid (Nov 25, 2013)

McGann is an excellent actor... Saw him in a production of Roberto Gerhard's The Plague (Camus' 'La peste' - the musical!) at the Barbican of all things - Dr. Rieux, the narrator. Just him and the choir, bleak, atonal music cut through by his narration. Properly full-on cathartic stuff. Different production with Michael Lonsdale for those interested:



But yeah, a good actor wasted on a poor script. Was nice to see him at least acknowledged.


----------



## editor (Nov 25, 2013)

I unexpectedly really enjoyed that. The episode has pretty much picked up rave reviews around the world too.

Good job, BBC!


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 25, 2013)

I was a little bit miffed when I heard tennent and piper were in the show as I thought it was to soon plus the 10th doctor is not one of my favourites but I have to say Steven Moffat did a brilliant job for the fiftieth. I've enjoyed it each time I've watched it and it made me both happy and sad,


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 25, 2013)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> A look at Who through the eyes of a child, rather than a middle aged sperglord




I don't think shows for children should be a confused mess. So one little girl likes it? Yeah, I have a six year old daughter who stayed up and watched it too. She liked the whizz bangs and seeing the doctor run about, but ask her what actually happened? Did she really like it? Hummm. 

You can make simple stories for adults and kids. To say "pfft, its for kids" is a horrible way to treat kids. A good story for kids is not automatically a crap story for adults.


----------



## cybertect (Nov 25, 2013)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I don't think shows for children should be a confused mess. So one little girl likes it? Yeah, I have a six year old daughter who stayed up and watched it too. She liked the whizz bangs and seeing the doctor run about, but ask her what actually happened? Did she really like it? Hummm.



My six year old was asking where the Loch Ness Monster was when the Zygons appeared. I'm not sure whether this says more about him or both me and his mum 

Mind you, he also said his favourite bit of the show was Tennent talking to the rabbit.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 25, 2013)

My 7y.o. boy thought it was "ABSOLUTELY AMAZING" 

Sat quietly with wide-eyes cuddled in my arms as we watched it


----------



## PursuedByBears (Nov 25, 2013)

My 5 year-old daughter absolutely loved it and has talked of little else since.


----------



## elbows (Nov 25, 2013)

Bungle73 said:


> He didn't want to talk about it at all did he?  Surely his time there couldn't have been THAT bad? I mean he had the staring role in probably the biggest programme on UK TV.  I can't help but feel this will be another Tom Baker "thing", in that he doesn't want anything to do with the show, but they years later starts to regret not taking part.



Just so long as he doesn't cash in by playing the character in some crappy adverts overseas in the meantime like Tom did.

I'm not sure if he will ever regret it or not, different personality and not like he had many years having the time of his life in the role.


----------



## JTG (Nov 25, 2013)

strung out said:


> They won't retcon the regeneration limit, they'll just write in a reason for why the limit can be extended.
> 
> We've already had it confirmed that the timelords resurrected the Master, granting him extra regenerations in order for his help in fighting in the Time War. My guess is that Capaldi's Doctor (as the 13th incarnation), will also be granted extra regenerations etc somehow for the Doctor's part in the redemption of the time lords when he re-discovers Gallifrey over the next few years.



The Five Doctors established the principle of an extra cycle of regenerations. 30 years ago. It's not a problem.

The Doctor is blatantly now going to hunt for Gallifrey and be granted an extra cycle. He has a Mission. It's going to be great 


RedDragon said:


> I Must admit I did chuckle at the Shoreditch sign and her direct access to the countryside on a scooter.


I didn't really take it as being just round the corner tbh. And it was a motorbike


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 25, 2013)

What are these mini episodes everyone is on about?


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 25, 2013)

JTG said:


> The Five Doctors established the principle of an extra cycle of regenerations. 30 years ago. It's not a problem.
> 
> The Doctor is blatantly now going to hunt for Gallifrey and be granted an extra cycle. He has a Mission. It's going to be great
> 
> I didn't really take it as being just round the corner tbh. And it was a motorbike


Anti-grav motor bike.


----------



## JTG (Nov 25, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> Anti-grav motor bike.


Not convinced showing her stuck in traffic would make for great telly. Probably best to just cut to the interesting bit


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 25, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> What are these mini episodes everyone is on about?




both on iplayer- the mgann one is excellent


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2013)

I've only ever found the McGann one, what's the name of the other one?


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 25, 2013)

76-totters-lane-shoreditch-through-the-years


----------



## strung out (Nov 25, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> I've only ever found the McGann one, what's the name of the other one?


The Last Day


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2013)

Cheers, will watch it at lunch.


----------



## elbows (Nov 25, 2013)

Gallifrey always reminds me of Bisto.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 25, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> Anti-grav motor bike.



A *Triumph* anti-grav motor bike.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 25, 2013)

Haven't read thread.

I was forced to watch it in a cinema on Saturday night.

At the end, people were clapping and kind of going "whoop" like they do at an Apple product launch, except not in a fully committed way, on account of being British not American.

I think we can all draw our own conclusions about what that tells us about the kind of people that like this kind of thing.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 25, 2013)

When I saw it was only going to be An hour and ten minutes I knew it was going to suck. New Who has had a problem with pacing ever since. I much prefer the older episodic format. Proper.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 25, 2013)

strung out said:


> The Last Day



Is Gallifrey twinned with Manchester now?

Why is one dalek a big deal for the home planet of the fucking time lords? Since when did they become that shit?

Was that secretly a Halo tutorial clip?


----------



## Quartz (Nov 25, 2013)

elbows said:


> Gallifrey always reminds me of Bisto.



That's Servalan, Jacqueline Pierce, isn't it?


----------



## PursuedByBears (Nov 25, 2013)

No, Lynda Bellingham off the Oxo adverts.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 25, 2013)

Quartz said:


> That's Servalan, Jacqueline Pierce, isn't it?


No, she's too underdressed.


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 25, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> Is Gallifrey twinned with Manchester now?
> 
> Why is one dalek a big deal for the home planet of the fucking time lords? Since when did they become that shit?
> 
> Was that secretly a Halo tutorial clip?


I guess that the fact they thought it impregnable meant they had fuck forces there having sent them off to fight. Perhaps in the course of the time war many of the Time Lord's weapons were destroyed or erased from history.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2013)

CNT36 said:


> many of the Time Lord's weapons were destroyed or erased from history.


I was a little disappointed there wasn't more about the workings of a Time War. In the special it looked very much like most alien invasions committed to film - lots of spaceships and lasers. Very little "I will kill you!" _"No you won't, because I went back and killed you five minutes ago!" _"Well I went back and killed your mother!" _"Well I went back and stomped all over that slimey thing that came out of the sea"_ "Well I... *piff*" "Psych"


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 25, 2013)

I think it's because that one dalek breached the sky trench and was followed by thousands of others


----------



## CNT36 (Nov 25, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


> I was a little disappointed there wasn't more about the workings of a Time War. In the special it looked very much like most alien invasions committed to film - lots of spaceships and lasers. Very little "I will kill you!" _"No you won't, because I went back and killed you five minutes ago!" _"Well I went back and killed your mother!" _"Well I went back and stomped all over that slimey thing that came out of the sea"_ "Well I... *piff*" "Psych"


It only ever showed the last day in detail. Perhaps what little they had left was committed to Rassillon's plan and the rest including the ability to blow a type 40 Tardis out of the sky had been erased. Who knows how limited their ability to travel in time was at this point. They had to piss around with Masters head to get out of the Time Lock whereas the moment had no problem letting the Doctor through.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 25, 2013)

If gallifrey can't stand up to a single dalek then the Doctor was right to comit genocide. The time lords are morons!

Also, if the Doctor changed his mind about using the Omega Moment Bomb Thingy then how can he have a memory of being some kind of mass murderer. I get that he won't remember what happened on the day of the doctor due to timey wimey stuff, but that doesn't mean he would remember doing something he never did surely?


----------



## elbows (Nov 25, 2013)

PursuedByBears said:


> No, Lynda Bellingham off the Oxo adverts.



Oops, I got the wrong gravy.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 25, 2013)

captainmission said:


> i liked the jokes about screwdrivers not being weapons. Although shortly after they went triple expeliarmus on a darlek.



I'm reversing the polarity, and you're reversing it back again. You're confusing the polarity.


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 25, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> Is Gallifrey twinned with Manchester now?
> 
> Why is one dalek a big deal for the home planet of the fucking time lords? Since when did they become that shit?
> 
> Was that secretly a Halo tutorial clip?


One Dalek?  You didn't watch it properly did you?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 25, 2013)

I thought it was great anyway. The only problem I have with the plot is the fact that it ignores all the stuff with John Ham, sorry, Simm and Timothy Dalton that led to Tennant's death. That was a shit story though so I'm not really bothered. 

Still, that whole story about Gallifrey escaping from the time lock, which it now appears it was never in to begin with, might have to be dealt with somehow if they want to pursure finding Gallifrey as a story arc. The Master is also stuck in the same time lock so I wonder what will become of him...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2013)




----------



## Stigmata (Nov 25, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> I thought it was great anyway. The only problem I have with the plot is the fact that it ignores all the stuff with John Ham, sorry, Simm and Timothy Dalton that led to Tennant's death. That was a shit story though so I'm not really bothered.
> 
> Still, that whole story about Gallifrey escaping from the time lock, which it now appears it was never in to begin with, might have to be dealt with somehow if they want to pursure finding Gallifrey as a story arc. The Master is also stuck in the same time lock so I wonder what will become of him...



The war is still time locked. Whereas up until now we thought the war ended with Gallifrey's destruction, we now know the planet was suspended in time and hidden in a pocket universe and only appeared to have bee n destroyed. That doesn't contradict the Timothy Dalton story but it does leave the door open for the return of the Master and Rassilon

Edit: I nominate Olivia Colman as Master to Capaldi's Doctor


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 25, 2013)

Came across this clip of classic Who linked to the end of that other clip.  Why can't new Who have writing like this any more?  Classic stuff, and very creepy. That whole story was iiirc


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 25, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Edit: I nominate Olivia Colman as Master to Capaldi's Doctor



Yes. This.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2013)

She's in everything


----------



## stuff_it (Nov 25, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> can you see magic eye pictures? me niether. Nor 3d. Its all a big con. If my shonky eyes can't see it then nobody else should.


I've got spectacularly good vision and can't see magic eye properly.


----------



## fogbat (Nov 25, 2013)

teuchter said:


> I was forced to watch it in a cinema on Saturday night.


Did they threaten your family?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 25, 2013)

Lord Camomile said:


>



He was terrible as the master. Really really bad.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 25, 2013)

fogbat said:


> Did they threaten your family?


They just took advantage of my extraordinary kindness and good nature.

And paid for my ticket


----------



## JTG (Nov 25, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> If gallifrey can't stand up to a single dalek then the Doctor was right to comit genocide. The time lords are morons!
> 
> Also, if the Doctor changed his mind about using the Omega Moment Bomb Thingy then how can he have a memory of being some kind of mass murderer. I get that he won't remember what happened on the day of the doctor due to timey wimey stuff, but that doesn't mean he would remember doing something he never did surely?


He can remember planning to destroy Gallifrey and he can remember the aftermath of a fuck ton of space debris


----------



## Balbi (Nov 25, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Edit: I nominate Olivia Colman as Master to Capaldi's Doctor



Get to fuck! 

Would like Julian Rhind Tutt


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 25, 2013)

JTG said:


> He can remember planning to destroy Gallifrey and he can remember the aftermath of a fuck ton of space debris


None of which included gallifrey.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 25, 2013)

elbows said:


> Oops, I got the wrong gravy.


Ooh, Matron.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 25, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> None of which included gallifrey.



Unsurpassed doomsday weapons don't necessarily leave a lot of debris


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 25, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> I thought it was great anyway. The only problem I have with the plot is the fact that it ignores all the stuff with John Ham, sorry, Simm and Timothy Dalton that led to Tennant's death. That was a shit story though so I'm not really bothered.
> 
> Still, that whole story about Gallifrey escaping from the time lock, which it now appears it was never in to begin with, might have to be dealt with somehow if they want to pursure finding Gallifrey as a story arc. The Master is also stuck in the same time lock so I wonder what will become of him...


this was happening at the same time,  the gallifreyan general mentioned that their plan was already failing. I also wonder if the explosion that happened just after some one said the sky trenches were holding was the master and rassilon having their spat.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 25, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Unsurpassed doomsday weapons don't necessarily leave a lot of debris


Yes but he has no memory of blowing galigrrey to shit, wouldn't that sudden gap make you think twice about assuming you were guilty of grand galactic genocide? I'm sure even Davros would have pause!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 25, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> I thought it was great anyway. The only problem I have with the plot is the fact that it ignores all the stuff with John Ham, sorry, Simm and Timothy Dalton that led to Tennant's death. That was a shit story though so I'm not really bothered.
> 
> Still, that whole story about Gallifrey escaping from the time lock, which it now appears it was never in to begin with, might have to be dealt with somehow if they want to pursure finding Gallifrey as a story arc. The Master is also stuck in the same time lock so I wonder what will become of him...


I had a more fundamental problem with them making Rassilon into a massive Dalton shaped cockend.


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 25, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> Yes but he has no memory of blowing galigrrey to shit, wouldn't that sudden gap make you think twice about assuming you were guilty of grand galactic genocide? I'm sure even Davros would have pause!



He does regenerate not long afterwards, and that seems to mess with the short term memory a bit


----------



## JTG (Nov 25, 2013)

Day of the Doctor made £1.7 million at the box office on Saturday night from around 450 sites, placing it third at the UK box office behind Hunger Games and Gravity which both showed at more cinemas and counted takings over all three days of the weekend. Apparently the Doctor's performance was comparable to Thor's opening weekend.

Moffat has acknowledged the regeneration limit and that Capaldi will be the one who reaches the end of the cycle.


----------



## DexterTCN (Nov 25, 2013)

JTG said:


> ...Moffat has acknowledged the regeneration limit and that Capaldi will be the one who reaches the end of the cycle.


What...like the last Doctor?


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 25, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> I had a more fundamental problem with them making Rassilon into a massive Dalton shaped cockend.



you have no idea how much i hated that too

i'm hoping  for some later retcon  that says  he wasn't really Rassilon that  was  just  used as  a title	or  this  was  some sort  of  failed  experiment  to regenerate  him	or  perhaps  it  was even an imposter.


----------



## JTG (Nov 25, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> What...like the last Doctor?


As in, 'we're going to have to do something about that aren't we?'

Loads of in jokes and references I missed... the code for the Vortex Manipulator was 1716231163 - the exact time and date that An Unearthly Child aired. The clock Clara rides past on her bike was set to 5:16 as well. Coal Hill School's Headmaster is Mr W Coburn, a reference to Waris Hussein and Anthony Coburn. The Chair of Governors is Mr I Chesterton. Osgood uses her scarf to get away from the Zygon in the same way the Doctor did in Terror of the Zygons and she shares a name with a UNIT soldier in The Daemons who was a technical bod.

One I was chuffed to spot on the night was a reference to the Tardis making a 'wheezing, groaning' sound as it materialises/dematerialises. First time the phrase has been used in the show but an old favourite from the Target novelisations.


----------



## JTG (Nov 25, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> He does regenerate not long afterwards, and that seems to mess with the short term memory a bit


Doctor intends to use The Moment > Doctor persuaded not to > Doctor immediately regenerates > memory fucked > Gallifrey no longer there > massive guilt complex until he eventually finds out what really happened.
It's timey wimey stuff. Anything can happen


----------



## strung out (Nov 25, 2013)

No idea how much truth there is in this, but some rumours are speculating that Matt Smith's version is the 13th incarnation of the doctor (the 12 we know about, plus he used up a regeneration in Journey's End?).

This being the case, we might see the case of the Doctor's limited number of regenerations being dealt with in the Christmas special, when Peter Capaldi comes in.

(source: http://io9.com/doctor-whos-regeneration-history-may-be-more-insane-th-1471410501)

I'm not sure that will be the case personally, given that we've already seen 13 doctors in the denouement to Saturday's episode. Presumably Matt Smith's doctor would have noticed an extra incarnation knocking around - assuming he remembers the events of Journey's End anyway.

Hmmm!


----------



## AverageJoe (Nov 25, 2013)

Who fucking cares. Its just a TV program. An excellent, most gripping and fantastical program, but just a TV program.

Enjoy it for what it is and then go out and do something amazing yourself. /hippy


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 25, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> I had a more fundamental problem with them making Rassilon into a massive Dalton shaped cockend.



Pretty much everything about that story was balls. Rassilon thwarts the time lock by throwing a magic diamond into the past, then returns all the humans to their human form using a magic metal glove. The doctor jumps out of a speeding spaceship somehow hitting the right bit of the right building even though he doesn't know where the bad guys are, and suffers only a few scratches. The whole thing is then resolved by the doctor shooting a box. 

Tennant's farewell tour was shit as well, with the singing Oods and that. Utter drivel.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 26, 2013)

teuchter said:


> Haven't read thread.
> 
> I was forced to watch it in a cinema on Saturday night.
> 
> ...




you got to see it at the cinema you ungrateful cunt


----------



## cybertect (Nov 26, 2013)

strung out said:


> This being the case, we might see the case of the Doctor's limited number of regenerations being dealt with in the Christmas special, when Peter Capaldi comes in.
> 
> (source: http://io9.com/doctor-whos-regeneration-history-may-be-more-insane-th-1471410501)



A friend of mine is actually directing the Xmas special, but unsurprisingly he is keeping very tight lipped about it despite our threats to tie him down and tickle the plot out of him...


----------



## teuchter (Nov 26, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> you got to see it at the cinema you ungrateful cunt


This is correct.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 26, 2013)

thank you JTG, I knew I'd heard the name Osgood before.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 26, 2013)

I just had a re watch- the end scene with baker/curator

theres roundels on the wall  you know what this means


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 26, 2013)

JTG said:


> Moffat has acknowledged the regeneration limit and that Capaldi will be the one who reaches the end of the cycle.


He _did_, after a fashion, but the _way_ that he said it made it very clear that that was not the end of the matter.  In fact he hinted very strongly that he'll be tackling the issue as part of the plotting of the coming series.

(This was on the One Show, on Thursday, being interviewed by Giles Brandreth. Such is my nerdhood that I watched an episode of the One Show!)


----------



## RedDragon (Nov 26, 2013)

Maybe we'll discover it was all a dream of Dr Hartnell


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 26, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I just had a re watch- the end scene with baker/curator
> 
> theres roundels on the wall  you know what this means


I noticed that, but thought it was just a nice design reference.  But now that you mention it, Doctor Smith did say, on talking about Tardis redecoration, "Oh, the round things!  I loved the round things!"


----------



## Cid (Nov 26, 2013)

The High Council can grant new cycles can't they? Quest for Gallifrey, doctor nearly killed, distraught companion last minute dash to council, much wailing and gnashing of teeth, last second granting of new cycle.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 26, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I noticed that, but thought it was just a nice design reference.  But now that you mention it, Doctor Smith did say, on talking about Tardis redecoration, "Oh, the round things!  I loved the round things!"




and there was zero explanation of where or why they were in that gallery- the Curators far-future Tardis?


----------



## Stigmata (Nov 26, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> and there was zero explanation of where or why they were in that gallery- the Curators far-future Tardis?



I hope so- I just applied for a job there


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 26, 2013)

I think they wasted the Bad Wolf reference.


----------



## Santino (Nov 26, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> I think they wasted the Bad Wolf reference.


Who cares? You thought it was shit.


----------



## captainmission (Nov 26, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> I think they wasted the Bad Wolf reference.



Was that meant to be a sentient wmd taking on the image of bad wolf rose or bad wolf rose was the sentience of the wmd? or really doesn't it matter?


----------



## cybertect (Nov 26, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> I think they wasted the Bad Wolf reference.



Well, I really enjoyed the editing in the scene where she first appeared. It was cut almost as if it were a dream sequence.


----------



## Quartz (Nov 26, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Edit: I nominate Olivia Colman as Master to Capaldi's Doctor



I'd prefer someone older. Helen Mirren would be delicious!



cybertect said:


> A friend of mine is actually directing the Xmas special, but unsurprisingly he is keeping very tight lipped about it despite our threats to tie him down and tickle the plot out of him...



You need to try the comfy chair...


----------



## Cid (Nov 26, 2013)

Trying to watch through old who... only got as far as Aztecs... too much material.


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 27, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> I think they wasted the Bad Wolf reference.


in what way


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 27, 2013)

captainmission said:


> Was that meant to be a sentient wmd taking on the image of bad wolf rose or bad wolf rose was the sentience of the wmd? or really doesn't it matter?


The first one and the last one


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 27, 2013)

watched first half of 'The Five Doctors' the other day.

whats startlingt in contrast to new who isn't the shonky effects, but the pacing. Whole seconds can pass without dialouge or music


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 27, 2013)

ginger_syn said:


> in what way


By not developing whether there was a connection between the Omega Bomb and Rose consuming Tardis energy.


----------



## belboid (Nov 27, 2013)

Caught up with it last night, and it was mostly very enjoyable.  
It did take me a while to really get into it tho.  Mainly because - the Galifreyan high council always look rather shit; Queen Bess was a bit rubbish; but mainly, it just didnt follow from the end of the last series. There they jumped into the Docs own timeline and met War Doc.  But at the begnining of this....none of that had seemingly happened.

But still, so many great bits, loadsa class lines, almost too many really, and great chemistry between the three docs


----------



## Bungle73 (Nov 27, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> watched first half of 'The Five Doctors' the other day.
> 
> whats startlingt in contrast to new who isn't the shonky effects, but the pacing. Whole seconds can pass without dialouge or music


In the '90s they released a special edition of The Five Doctors, with "updated" special effects.  I have it around here.....somewhere.


----------



## Kuso (Nov 27, 2013)

belboid said:


> Caught up with it last night, and it was mostly very enjoyable.
> It did take me a while to really get into it tho.  Mainly because - the Galifreyan high council always look rather shit; Queen Bess was a bit rubbish; *but mainly, it just didnt follow from the end of the last series. There they jumped into the Docs own timeline and met War Doc.  But at the begnining of this....none of that had seemingly happened.*
> 
> But still, so many great bits, loadsa class lines, almost too many really, and great chemistry between the three docs



Yeah, this confused me a bit too, unless all this was going on inside the jumped into time stream and the Xmas special will pick up where the end of last season left off, Trenzellor, death of the doctor etc etc


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 27, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Thanks for all the recommendations.  I've ordered:
> 
> Genesis of the Daleks
> Tom Baker
> ...



I’ve now watched Dalek Invasion of Earth.

With all the goodwill in the world, it doesn’t stand the test of time.  For a start, the pacing is stilted, uneven and downright creaky.  I’m not talking slow; I’m talking inept.  I don’t want constant action (I’m a fan of the films of Claude Chabrol, for Christ’s sake), but I do require flow, coherence, even plot development, and compelling story-telling.  The light and shade has to be constructed, not haphazard, and the momentum has to come from more than hastily constructed cliffhangers.

The dialogue didn’t sound natural or convincing, and often seemed unfinished.  Scenes fizzled out, and the story took all 6 episodes to get going, only to abruptly end.

The only scene worth watching was the Doctor’s famous farewell to Susan, and even the lead into that was badly handled.  Furthermore, she was left behind without being asked her thoughts on the matter, with no change of clothes and only one shoe!

There were flashes of charisma from Hartnell as the Doctor, not from any dialogue, but sheer force of personality, however for great swathes of screen time he was absent.

I wasn’t expecting anything from the special effects.  But some of the switches to models were unintentionally hilarious. And the sight of Ian “struggling” to lift 3 sticks we’re supposed to believe are heavy and will stop a Dalek bomb from hollowing out the core of the earth was ludicrous.

Having loved the first episode of An Unearthly Child (although I thought the rest of the serial was deeply unconvincing and half-arsed), I was hoping for more construction of that calibre.  Alas, it failed to materialise.

This is not about it being antiquated; I’m a fan of antiquated. It’s about competence. 

This was far worse than even the worst of Moffat’s later Smith episodes.  It’s in a whole different category.


----------



## elbows (Nov 27, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> watched first half of 'The Five Doctors' the other day.
> 
> whats startlingt in contrast to new who isn't the shonky effects, but the pacing. Whole seconds can pass without dialouge or music



I don't watch much modern tv in large part because I don't like the pacing these days. There are exceptions, and the old stuff has different pacing issues of its own at times. Especially for the weaker stories that don't really justify being spread across so many episodes.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Nov 27, 2013)

I don't think anything can top the Movellans.

They looked like robot backing singers for Earth Wind and Fire.


----------



## Rimbaud (Nov 27, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve now watched Dalek Invasion of Earth.
> 
> With all the goodwill in the world, it doesn’t stand the test of time.  For a start, the pacing is stilted, uneven and downright creaky.  I’m not talking slow; I’m talking inept.  I don’t want constant action (I’m a fan of the films of Claude Chabrol, for Christ’s sake), but I do require flow, coherence, even plot development, and compelling story-telling.  The light and shade has to be constructed, not haphazard, and the momentum has to come from more than hastily constructed cliffhangers.
> 
> ...




Most of Hartnell's stories suffer from pacing problems and being far too long. To be fair to them, they were never intended to be watched in one go from start to finish so most of the early Doctor Who stories suffer from a lot of padding and irrelevant subplots. Taken as a whole, the plot structure is a bit all over the place, but taken as individual 20 minute episodes the pacing and structure is a little tighter, if that makes sense.


----------



## marty21 (Nov 27, 2013)

been watching the special Dr Who episode in little 15 minute slots in the bath on my phone  enjoyed it - and I haven't watched Dr Who really since the Tennant was in the chair


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 27, 2013)

Rimbaud said:


> Most of Hartnell's stories suffer from pacing problems and being far too long. To be fair to them, they were never intended to be watched in one go from start to finish so most of the early Doctor Who stories suffer from a lot of padding and irrelevant subplots. Taken as a whole, the plot structure is a bit all over the place, but taken as individual 20 minute episodes the pacing and structure is a little tighter, if that makes sense.


I should say, I did watch them one at a time. Admittedly not a week apart.


----------



## elbows (Nov 27, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve now watched Dalek Invasion of Earth.
> 
> With all the goodwill in the world, it doesn’t stand the test of time.  For a start, the pacing is stilted, uneven and downright creaky.  I’m not talking slow; I’m talking inept.  I don’t want constant action (I’m a fan of the films of Claude Chabrol, for Christ’s sake), but I do require flow, coherence, even plot development, and compelling story-telling.  The light and shade has to be constructed, not haphazard, and the momentum has to come from more than hastily constructed cliffhangers.
> 
> ...



Sadly you are likely to see this picture repeated in various ways throughout episodes of the original run, including even some of the stories deemed classics by many. 

Some of the pacing issues improve steadily over the entire run of original doctors, especially beyond the black-and-white stuff. Others not so much. Lazy cliffhangers and some stories that are not worth telling don't exactly go away. Character development is highly variable and infrequent, and often relies on moments of interesting acting rather than the script itself. 

I do not find it too hard to overlook the flaws when there is a decent story going on, but it is pretty rare to find even a quality story from the original run that doesn't go off the rails at at least one point. The forgiveness required to get that much out of the original doctor who requires not just an expectation of poor special effects, but the other implications of the budget and timescale they ran on back then. And when it comes to what special effects offer these days, its not just how they look but the way they can be used to pursue much grander visions. e.g. many of the original who episodes are limited not just by the set, but the small number of people in the cast. There are so few extras and no opportunity to have computer-generated ones, so things can feel rather small and claustrophobic in more ways than one.

I like Genesis of the Daleks a lot. It does not escape all of the above problems at all, but it has its moments and is not lacking in politics or some interesting dialogue.


----------



## strung out (Nov 27, 2013)

It's also worth remembering some of the other issues they faced back then. Episodes were recorded barely a couple of weeks before they were broadcast, with stories often being written to tight schedules - scripts that were written and ready often found themselves bumped up the recording schedule because there was nothing else to film.

In addition to this filming was so expensive, that it was common for there to only be one take of each scene, hence why you got Hartnell stumbling over his lines being left in. It also left it open to unscripted moments of inspiration finding their way into the only cut of course, so it worked both ways.

I know this doesn't really do a lot to actually improve those episodes, but the conditions they were made under (often over 40 episodes a year!) show what a feat of broadcasting it was to get them out every week.

To a certain extent, many of those issues such as tight filming schedules are still in existence, hence why you get your fair share of duff episodes each season - I'm pretty sure a couple of recent series have either overrun or had to be rushed. That's why some of the seasons have been split too. The bigger budgets don't necessarily mean that those making the show are less hard pressed to get the film in the can every year!


----------



## strung out (Nov 27, 2013)

elbows said:


> I like Genesis of the Daleks a lot. It does not escape all of the above problems at all, but it has its moments and is not lacking in politics or some interesting dialogue.


Isn't it Genesis where you gat that fabulous scene when the Daleks invade the Thal city? They only had three Dalek props on set, meaning that as soon as three Daleks sweep past, there's a pause while they nip round the back of the set and come round again.


----------



## Cid (Nov 27, 2013)

danny la rouge did you watch any other Hartnell? original Daleks, Keys of Marinus, Aztecs etc?


----------



## ginger_syn (Nov 28, 2013)

Awesome Wells said:


> By not developing whether there was a connection between the Omega Bomb and Rose consuming Tardis energy.


I quite like the ambiguity of that, 'though I can see how it could be unsatisfying for some.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 28, 2013)

Cid said:


> danny la rouge did you watch any other Hartnell? original Daleks, Keys of Marinus, Aztecs etc?


No, just the first serial (shown on TV the other night), and  Dalek Invasion, which I bought on DVD. 

Next DVD I'll watch is Troughton the Invasion. I'll report back. I'm looking forward to it, as Troughton was my first Doctor.


----------



## danny la rouge (Nov 28, 2013)

I’ve watched episode 1 of Troughton’s “Invasion” now.  That was much better; much tighter.

It had actually been written with an understanding of dramatic tension.  The pace, rather than being inept, was simply antiquated.  But it was well-constructed.  The cliff hanger was properly set up by the story-line, rather than just randomly thrown in (as happened in the episode of Dalek Invasion where two Robo-men suddenly appear with a bomb).  A far more professional job.

This was more like I was expecting. It is still slightly am-drammy at times, the budgets still don’t run to much (although the sets are comparatively better), and it is definitely of its time, but you get the feeling that the writers and director had learned their craft now. 

Once I’ve seen more episodes, I’ll tell you if the story is any good.


----------



## Cid (Nov 28, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> No, just the first serial (shown on TV the other night), and  Dalek Invasion, which I bought on DVD.
> 
> Next DVD I'll watch is Troughton the Invasion. I'll report back. I'm looking forward to it, as Troughton was my first Doctor.



Ah, I've been watching on Dailymotion, so haven't paid for them - probably a slightly higher tolerance for crapness. I wasn't particularly impressed with the first serial, quite liked the first Daleks and found Marinus ok. Aztecs got a bit boring really.


----------



## Frankie Jack (Nov 30, 2013)

When is the next one scheduled?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Nov 30, 2013)

Christmas Day


----------



## Frankie Jack (Nov 30, 2013)

Ah. Thanks ruffneck. *lazy me*


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 2, 2013)

'Is Doctor Who a lefty?'

http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/11/spin-doctor


no, no he isn't. He's the universes biggest liberal. Thats why he's a-ok with genocide but flinches when there is a threat to someone close to him.


----------



## Santino (Dec 2, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> 'Is Doctor Who a lefty?'
> 
> http://www.newstatesman.com/2013/11/spin-doctor
> 
> ...


Who would win in a liberalthon between the Doctor and Picard?


----------



## DexterTCN (Dec 2, 2013)




----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 2, 2013)

captainmission said:


> Was that meant to be a sentient wmd taking on the image of bad wolf rose or bad wolf rose was the sentience of the wmd? or really doesn't it matter?



Makes more sense than River Song's appearance in the previous episode. OK right, so she's a digital copy of herself stored in a computer in the future transmitted into Clara's brain via a dream which Clara had long since woken up from. And then we find out that the Doctor can somehow see and hear someone who is basically a figment of Clara's imagination, and apparently always had been able to see her even before Clara dreamed her up. And the Tardis can hear her too of course. 

All of which nonsense was apprently thrown in to allow the Doctor's tomb to be opened without us finding out what his name is. I reckon they could've just had him whisper his name instead, that would've been a lot less shit.


----------



## ginger_syn (Dec 3, 2013)

but so boring and lame.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2013)

Santino said:


> Who would win in a liberalthon between the Doctor and Picard?




Picard I think. Because he's part of a massive passive aggressive space fleet whereas the Doc is a one-man band. Like monbiot compared to scandinavia


----------



## mwgdrwg (Dec 3, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Picard I think. Because he's part of a massive passive aggressive space fleet whereas the Doc is a one-man band. Like monbiot compared to scandinavia



I'm watching TNG again at the moment, they're always breaking the 'Prime Directive'


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 3, 2013)

mwgdrwg said:


> I'm watching TNG again at the moment, they're always breaking the 'Prime Directive'




The Prime Directive is just a plot device for when they haven't enough money to film an away team in a feudalist-type society without it looking like 70s Doctor Who


----------



## strung out (Dec 3, 2013)

This is a great little tribute video that shows why Patrick Troughton is the best Doctor of all

*The Cosmic Hobo

*


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 13, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve watched episode 1 of Troughton’s “Invasion” now.  That was much better; much tighter.
> 
> It had actually been written with an understanding of dramatic tension.  The pace, rather than being inept, was simply antiquated.  But it was well-constructed.  The cliff hanger was properly set up by the story-line, rather than just randomly thrown in (as happened in the episode of Dalek Invasion where two Robo-men suddenly appear with a bomb).  A far more professional job.
> 
> ...


You made it any further Danny? 

Elbows is pretty much spot on with the pacing, there can't be many episodes from the original series that wouldn't have benefitted from a judicious amount of editing.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 13, 2013)

redsquirrel said:


> You made it any further Danny?
> 
> Elbows is pretty much spot on with the pacing, there can't be many episodes from the original series that wouldn't have benefitted from a judicious amount of editing.



I just finished Troughton the Invasion last night.

Hilariously, my initial review was actually of episode 5, as I had put in the wrong disc.  So first I had to correct my error, and watch episode 1, which was animated.  I loved the animation, it had a very 60s feel (although it was unlike actual 60s animation), and was exactly the right. I believe it was Brian Cosgrove and Mark Hall behind it, and they did a fine job.  I’d be interested to know if they had the original story boards to work off, or if they had to use educated guesswork going solely on the audio, with clues from the surviving episodes? Because, actually the visual direction in the two animated episodes was better than that of the surviving film. (I used to work as an animation artist, for a company that produced Gaelic programmes for Scottish television, so this aspect caught my attention).

The basic idea was good. So good in fact, New Who borrowed it for the Tenant cybermen story, transplanting it to another universe, presumably to avoid our Earth getting déjà vu.  However, the Troughton serial suffers for the comparison (I’ll have to re-watch the Tenant story now and look for in-jokes and references!)

However, the Invasion is about 3 episodes too long.  The story could have been told much quicker. There is a lot of treading water.  A lot of the Doctor looking into microscopes (which I realise is 60s TV convention for “scientist doing highfalutin boffin stuff”, but was still overdone). And the structure was very formulaic, but lacked several elements that good TV writing always uses today.  The Invasion over-relied on the “problem->set-back->higher-stakes” device, but squandered it almost every time.  It was almost always solved by the “here’s some magic science gobbledegook to save the day” trick,  which can be fine if used with panache and conviction.  However, take for example the scene where Zoe saved the day by doing some calculations to knock out the cybermen ships: it was botched and amateurish and very much children’s-TV-toe-curling-ham.  (I’d have either cut the running around or the clip board use).

And that was a time they went to town on the “problem->set-back->higher-stakes” device. Other uses were just half-hearted, like when the blocking device fell off the Doctor’s neck!  It was so badly handled, you wondered why they bothered. And these moments had the effect of producing a flow that was curiously static, which was the opposite of their intended effect.

So the writing, direction and acting are a huge improvement on the two Hartnell serials I’ve seen, but the first two are a long way short of the professional finish of New Who, and the last was often so, though not always.

Things I liked: the Doctor was great. Troughton had charisma by the bucket-load.  I actually remembered a couple of scenes, although I must have been very young when I last saw them.  I remembered the Dr climbing into the sewers, and I remembered the scene where he says to Vaughan, “Is this what you want?  To rule a dead planet!”  And these were both scenes he just filled up with his personality.

I was also highly amused by the idea that the Doctor hates computers.  That would be a nice addition to the New Who armoury.  It’s quirky and eccentric, and would set him outside of normal 21st century human mores. An alien who doesn’t trust computers, so he uses his heath-Robinson cobbled together mechanics and extra-terrestrial wiles and knowledge-base to do the job.

I also loved the comedy sexism. That was intentional, right?

Next in line, the Daemons with Pertwee.  I have fairly strong memories of this one, actually.  So I'm looking forward to it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 13, 2013)

Just to expand a bit on that blowing up the cyberships scene.  Zoe has 30 seconds to prove her theory.  There isn’t time for her to do the calculations _and_ the running around and both look convincing, with the outcome that neither looks convincing.

Given that the point is her calculations (signified by the clipboard), you need to lose the running around. But that’s there to add urgency, so how do you get urgency otherwise? How about she does the calculations standing still, with a pile of clip boards, and throws them one at a time to the operatives: “You! Do _this_”. Thump, clipboard lands on console. “Wait ...wait..come on Zoe! (to self)” “Of course! It’s 32.134 degrees. OK, quick, _you_!  Do _this_!” Thump, clipboard lands on console. Etc.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 19, 2013)

*Jon Pertwee and the Daemons.*

That was atrocious! It was like they’d raided the waste paper baskets of the Scooby Doo writing team.

Yes, Pertwee is great. But the story made no sense at all.  The “this is science not magic” shtick was heavy-handed, but actually wasn’t fooling anyone, not even with the Doctor’s OHP lecture on horned gods of antiquity. The writers just fancied going full Hammer Horror for a bit. The “explanation” didn’t explain anything, from why the stone gargoyle thing came to life, to why the Master needed all the villagers on his side.

Nothing anyone does makes much sense, and the “science” is just magic renamed.

The serial does boast the funniest cliff-hanger I have _ever_ seen, though: the end of episode 2.  The dialogue is supposed to be interrupted by the arrival of the stone gargoyle, but actually just stops abruptly and unnaturally as if an editor was heavy handed with the scissors.  It has no flow or drama.  Just a dead stop.  And then the stone gargoyle does a very, very funny little walk/dance into the long barrow. The combined effect is hilarious; I watched it several times.  

Also funny was when the Master calls on the stone gargoyle to cow the dissenting villagers into submission at the foot of the stairs.  There's more ham on show than all of Melton Mobray's pie manufacturers put together!

I did enjoy the white witch, though.  She turned in an entertaining performance. I recognised her from somewhere, too.

I remember this serial fairly well.  As a kid, I remember being impressed by the Daemon growing to full height. It was weird to see the sequence again. Of course the special effects are now very shonky, but I can overlook that.  What I find it hard to overlook is all the Classic Who fans on here saying how much better the writing was back then.  So far, I find that it has been much, much worse. And I’ve been watching serials held up as classics!  What must the dross have been like?  Sorry, but so far, New Who wins hands down. It’s fun watching the old hokum, but it is far from the golden age of intelligent writing some would have us believe.

(I’m remembering the names of the people who recommended each of these DVDs, by the way. I know who you are).


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 19, 2013)

> and the “science” is just magic renamed.



'any sufficiently advanced science would be indistinguishable from magic' as I think Arthur C Clarke said


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 19, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> 'any sufficiently advanced science would be indistinguishable from magic' as I think Arthur C Clarke said


He should have reversed the polarity.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 19, 2013)

The thing is that the way Jo defeats the Daemon is to make it explode by being brave and willing to sacrifice her life for the Doctor. This is in an episode that goes on and on about science not magic. That was just magic. 

(Although as a device, it was basically a variant of the way Zoe blows up Vaughan's computer in the Invasion). 

I have no problem with a fantasy element in Dr Who, but it was hardly an appliance of science.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2013)

theres always a dose of that running through Who, including the new one. Remember how Ten inch defeated the Master? by getting the whole world to believe in him. I mean really


----------



## Santino (Dec 20, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> theres always a dose of that running through Who, including the new one. Remember how Ten inch defeated the Master? by getting the whole world to believe in him. I mean really


That had been set up by the Master himself using the psychic network to influence people and take power, so narratively speaking it was a perfectly justifiable strategy. And in Doctor Who psychic ability is clearly a blunt fact of science.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2013)

Santino said:


> That had been set up by the Master himself using the psychic network to influence people and take power, so narratively speaking it was a perfectly justifiable strategy. And in Doctor Who psychic ability is clearly a blunt fact of science.




oh yeah? and what about the time the day was saved by the tears of a child on christmas day?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Dec 20, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> oh yeah? and what about the time the day was saved by the tears of a child on christmas day?


What the fuck?

Sounds like an episode written by Cliff Richard.


----------



## Quartz (Dec 20, 2013)

Well, I've set my DVR to record the Christmas episode, and it's on a UPS.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 20, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> *Jon Pertwee and the Daemons.*
> 
> That was atrocious! It was like they’d raided the waste paper baskets of the Scooby Doo writing team.
> 
> ...



the old stuff  is very patchy

often carried  by  the doc  or  a few other major players


for example   any unit  episode  is  great  just  for the brig.  like his line  in this one "Jenkins, chap with wings there. five rounds rapid."


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 22, 2013)

I think Ton Baker actually got  some of the worst stories of doctor who  but  he  simply carried the show by being him.  especially  when paired off with k9 and  the second romana (the first romana is  fine  but  there is less chemistry between the actors)

that isn't  to say there wasn't  good  episodes   but  i think  it's more about  getting to love the charactors in  old  who.  i think  that's a lot of the problems  with new who.   ecclestone  wasn't  around long  enough  to  really  get  his  doctor   and  what  you did  get  was  bi-polar-ish  plus  his companion was rose  and  i really  don't  like  rose.

tennant  was a really  good doctor  but  again not  so good  with  the companions.  the rose  romance  felt  just wrong to me  as  an old school doctor who fan. donna wasn't  bad  but  a bit  played up.   marsha  was  blaaaand


the real problem  with tennant  was  he  got  some atrocious  stories.	 all the  big  episodes   had  rubbish elements in them.  RTD  really  can't  do  epic  who.	the doctor  isn't particularly good in them  the only thing i liked about the was  the bit  where  john simms managed not just to chew scenery  but  devoured an entire set whole.  

smith is a good doctor.  he managed to set himself apart from tennant.  the main problem  is  half the  stuff has amy  as the main charactor.  rory was a good companion but   they put waaay to much emphisis on  amy.   kinda the same with  clara

he also didn't  get  many  particularly  good  epic  stories.  the whole  amy and  river song  stuff was oversold.  also the bigh over arching stuff kinda fell flat again.

frankly   the 50th episode  has been the  first  proper epic doctorwho in a long  time  where i can honestly say  they  didn't  fuck up  and  managed  to mix a lot  of classic who spirit  into new who.   

i only wish they had a bigger budget  and  they  could  have done more  stuff   with the big moment



Spoiler



do a  bunch of  digital editing   so  all of the doctors  are talking to each other  more than  what  was obviously just  a bunch of clips.



but then all doctors have  shit episodes

think of poor paul mcgann.  i still have  his face on a dartboard.   i should  really  take it off  as  it  wasn't  his fault  that tv movie  fucked stuff up.  and  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Night_of_the_Doctor  was fantastic.  i also hear great thing about  his  audio stuff.	some of the books were good too.  I was amused  by  the  first one  which  basically  writes off all  the  shit  from the movie  as  the  doctor  having  massive PTSD  from the regeneration. 


McCoy was the doctor  when  i was old enough to identify as a doctor who fan (the first doctor who story i remember watching is caves of  androzani as i remeber  the bit  with the android  not  registering him as human  and  i know  i new   what doctor who was then and  i would have been 4  at the time )   and  he  has  both  some of the worst  and some of the  best  stories from who.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 22, 2013)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I think Ton Baker actually got  some of the worst stories of doctor who  but  he  simply carried the show by being him.  especially  when paired off with k9 and  the second romana (the first romana is  fine  but  there is less chemistry between the actors)


My next box is going to be Genesis of the Daleks. I remember it quite well. The baddies are the Nazi-like Kaleds. And their leader is Kojak's brother. (That was my joke at the time). Looking forward to seeing if it stands the test of time.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 22, 2013)

I think it has some great moments  but  it  is possibly stretched out

I belive  it has  for one  the  davros  and  doctor  discustion about the power to destroy  and  willingness to use it.   the   epic  kaled mutant  strangulation scene   and most importantly of all



Spoiler: the epic climax



The doctor debating  with himself   about his right to change  history.   does the unification of people against the daleks  outweigh  the  devestation of the daleks?	does  he have the right  to alter istory so dramatically   and  on order from  gallifrey.	 it's  basically   all of the  time wars stuff  but  kinda  done  in a much more  personal way.	in fact  this  is  the  first   act in the time war.   what  the doctor choses to do  is   intresting.   miht be scene as a cop out  but  also works  as  a philosiphical view point


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 22, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> *Jon Pertwee and the Daemons.*
> 
> That was atrocious! It was like they’d raided the waste paper baskets of the Scooby Doo writing team.
> 
> ...


Sorry you didn't enjoy it Danny. I'll admit there are some ropy bits but the Brigader is good in it, and does give his classic line. I hope you like _Genesis of the Daleks_ more.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 22, 2013)

I wouldn't say I didn't *enjoy* it.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 22, 2013)

it also has  the  helicopter exploding  nicked from  james bond


----------



## Kaka Tim (Dec 24, 2013)

Danny - have you watched s_pearhead from space_ or _day of the daleks?_ - two of the best pertwee ones. They still stand up (wobbly scenery and shonky special effects notwithstanding) IMHO.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 24, 2013)

Kaka Tim said:


> Danny - have you watched s_pearhead from space_ or _day of the daleks?_ - two of the best pertwee ones. They still stand up (wobbly scenery and shonky special effects notwithstanding) IMHO.


No. Maybe I'll rent them.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 25, 2013)

Nearly time!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 25, 2013)

danny la rouge said:


> Nearly time!


The 50th Anniversary happened weeks ago. Please direct your excitement to the appropriate thread


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 25, 2013)

I preferred that episode. Maybe if I stick to this thread the Xmas episode will go away.


----------



## elbows (Dec 25, 2013)

I got round to watching The Green Death the other day. As much overt politics as I think you'll ever find in Who. And the dynamics of the relationship with a female companion, and her leaving the doctor, was expressed on a level very rarely seen in other classic who adventures. But watching 6-episode stories from this and the next Pertwee series is quite a challenge at times, with plenty of plot elements dragging.

I'm running rather low on classic who stories that I don't remember the plot of. If I'm lucky I might find a couple more Tom Baker ones that I didn't watch a few years back.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 21, 2014)

Have you got round to _Genesis of the Daleks_ yet, Danny?

Keeping up with the reviews of classic Who episodes I watched _The Robots of Death _last night, which was as excellent as I remembered (though the title is utter rubbish even for a classic Who title). More people need to wear mad headgear like in this story. The pacing is much better than a lot of episodes, the Doctor is only captured/escapes twice and there's as lot less filler rubbish. If anything it could to with being expanded a little, the last couple of episodes would benefit from more attention played to the villain's backstory.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 17, 2014)

redsquirrel said:


> Have you got round to _Genesis of the Daleks_ yet, Danny?
> 
> .


Yes. I've watched it twice now (not including when it aired).

I'll review it tomorrow if I have time.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 17, 2014)

Kaka Tim said:


> Danny - have you watched s_pearhead from space_ or _day of the daleks?_ - two of the best pertwee ones. They still stand up (wobbly scenery and shonky special effects notwithstanding) IMHO.


Not seen Day of the Daleks yet. But I have seen Spearhead from Space.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 18, 2014)

*Genesis of the Daleks.*

I was 10 when this aired.  I hadn’t remembered the title, but I could remember parts of it as I watched.  At the time I was totally captivated and convinced by the worlds the programme created.  Now, of course, it looks like small sets with nothing behind the battened partitions.

People on here had held this up as the pinnacle, and indeed the DVD box says “NO 1 Dr Who story ever!”.  Programmes leading up to the 50th Anniversary reverently referenced it.  So I was expected something leagues apart from the other classic Who I’ve seen.  That was all probably to its detriment.

What we actually have is the fantastic presence of Tom Baker’s Doctor, girning and exuding his way through scenes, but a badly paced serial with odd and arbitrary cliff-hangers, and a story that doesn’t bear much scrutiny.

Those cliff-hangers: Sarah Jane fell off the Thall’s rocket scaffold what looked like a dozen feet and then landed on what?  A rung of scaffold? A platform?  How?  She was outside the scaffold as she fell. Even if she’d collided with part of the scaffold, she’d have bounced and continued falling, rag doll like to her death.  It’d have been better if she’d grabbed the scaffold and clung on.  But that would be too dynamic, too in-control for a woman.  She has to passively land.

The writing of women is all over the place!  They want her to be a strong, intelligent, active woman, but they have her shrieking and screaming, indecisive and unsure of herself.  And yet she leads a slave revolt and scales a scaffold tower that must be several hundred feet tall onto the roof of the city dome!

One cliff-hanger has the Doctor briefly electrocuted in a very brief scene that looks like it was inserted specifically to provide a cliff-hanger.  At least the Sarah Jane fall came from the narrative flow.  The electric fence thing didn’t come from the preceding episode or lead into the next.

And then the bloke assistant (I have no recollection of this one.  I remember Jamie, when I must have been 4, but not this fella, sorry pal) for some reason stands on a polystyrene oyster which grips his leg.  He must have seen them – they were huge, stationary, and lurid.  The Doctor breaks off a polystyrene stalactite to prise it open with.  It’s hilarious.

And the Doctor getting a “creature” - Kaled mutant? (are they Daleks without the “transport device”?) - attached to his neck: it’s like a Morecombe and Wise skit, where Eric would grab his own neck from behind the curtain!

That brings us to the Daleks.  They aren’t what the Kaleds will evolve into; they’re genetically engineered creatures that Davros has created.  It makes no sense to say they’re the future of the Kaleds. They’re creations of Davros.

(Why, by the way, if he was trying to discover the “future evolution of the Kaleds” had he been creating giant oysters and the like?)

Nor does Davros himself make much sense.  He looks like a traditional alien megalomaniac. Like the Mekon from Dan Dare. But neither the Kaleds nor the Thals look like him.  We can see he’s disabled – he uses a prototype “transport device”, and has the head clamp and all that.  But he also appears to be a different species.  He can’t be from another planet, as he doesn’t initially believe in extra-Skaro life.  Nor can he be a “Muto”, or he’d have been cast into the wastelands as an infant.  Indeed, you don’t have to be much of a mutant for that fate, as the Thals are quite willing to accept Sarah Jane (who could almost pass as a Norm, we’re told) is a Muto.

So what’s his story?

Also, it’s great that he is killed at the end, because the Daleks need to be self-organising racists, as they are in Dalek Invasion of Earth.  You give them a boss that isn’t one of them and you take away a lot of their power and menace.  (Indeed, having Davros popping back up through Time and the Universe detracts from their usefulness as a story device).  He should have stayed dead.

All in all, I thought it was a disappointment.  If I was to pick a favourite of the Classic Whos I’ve seen, Spearhead From Space, the War Games and even City of death are far, far better in every respect.


----------



## hot air baboon (Dec 18, 2014)

danny la rouge said:


> At the time I was totally captivated and convinced by the worlds the programme created. Now, of course, it looks like small sets with nothing behind the battened partitions.



...I think that's why the Pertwee-UNIT / aliens-menace-earth era will always be the apotheosis of Dr Who ....the extra patina of realism afforded by filming in earthbound settings & not having to stick to studio 3 at television centre & that quarry near Guildford ...


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 18, 2014)

I'm shocked and appalled at the idea of old Who inserting a faux peril just for the sake of a weekly cliffhanger. Shocked.


----------



## danny la rouge (Dec 18, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm shocked and appalled at the idea of old Who inserting a faux peril just for the sake of a weekly cliffhanger. Shocked.


Well, yes, but even given the convention of The Cliffhanger, there's a way of having it flow from the narrative, and then there' the Sudden Electric Fence. The whole scene looks and feels inserted.


----------



## spliff (Dec 20, 2014)




----------

