# Amazon Kindle Fire Tablet: $199



## lobster (Sep 2, 2011)

This appears to be the first review of the Amazon tablet, sadly no photos.


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## Teepee (Sep 2, 2011)

do not want. the e-ink display and battery life what what attracts me to the kindle


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## lobster (Sep 2, 2011)

I agree, the reviewer does say


> As far as the existing e-ink-based Kindles, all I’ve heard is that they’ll continue to co-exist with this new tablet



That is sensible decision if true.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2011)

TechCrunch have had their hands on a pre-production model and their words: "I’m happy to report that it’s going to be a big deal. Huge, potentially."

Powered by a custom version of Android, it's going to cost $250 - half the cost of an entry level iPad. Apparently it looks like the Blackberry Playbook.



> As anticipated, Amazon has forked Android to build their own version for the Kindle. Simply put: it looks nothing like the Android you’re used to seeing.
> 
> The interface is all Amazon and Kindle. It’s black, dark blue, and a bunch of orange. The main screen is a carousel that looks like Cover Flow in iTunes which displays all the content you have on the device. This includes books, apps, movies, etc. Below the main carousel is a dock to pin your favorite items in one easy-to-access place. When you turn the device horizontally, the dock disappears below the fold.
> 
> ...


 
http://techcrunch.com/2011/09/02/amazon-kindle-tablet/
(If this tablet gets to be anywhere as big as people are predicting, then I think this separate thread is justified. )


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 3, 2011)

So probably about 250 quid... I'll want to see to the specs, but could be very interested.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 3, 2011)

I'd consider owning both. Different tools for different jobs.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> So probably about 250 quid... I'll want to see to the specs, but could be very interested.


I really don't think it will be that much - the Kindle's pricing was fairly similar both sides of the pond. Mind you, I don't think we'll get it for ages after the US anyway.


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## lobster (Sep 3, 2011)

its more of a nook killer than a ipad killer from reading that article.

7 inch, single core, android 2.1 derivative , no camera. nothing-new lcd screen.


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## lobster (Sep 3, 2011)

having said that, kindle was not technically ahead of other ebook readers yet its sold extremely well.


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## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2011)

Could be interested in this considering I destroyed two kindles and a HTC Desire in as many months. May as well see what else I can fuck.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 3, 2011)

Bloody hell, I thought I could be hard on kit! What do you do...take them swimming?


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## Citizen66 (Sep 3, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Bloody hell, I thought I could be hard on kit! What do you do...take them swimming?



Desire had a sit in some water. First kindle didn't like being in my bag and second didn't like being in my pocket. When I sat down.


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## scifisam (Sep 3, 2011)

editor said:


> I really don't think it will be that much - the Kindle's pricing was fairly similar both sides of the pond. Mind you, I don't think we'll get it for ages after the US anyway.



The Kindle costs less in dollars than it does in pounds; IOW, it's almost twice as much here.


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 3, 2011)

I've had my touchpad for just over a week and the case is already starting to crack around the speakers.  Very thin plastic though.
I was originally planning to go for a Kindle tablet (or a Nook if I couldn't wait that long).  I'm kind of pleased I haven't now - 6gb of storage and assuming you'll access everything from the cloud would be a bit impractical if you don't have a landline (which I don't).


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## editor (Sep 3, 2011)

scifisam said:


> The Kindle costs less in dollars than it does in pounds; IOW, it's almost twice as much here.


The Kindle Wi-Fi is $139 in the US and £111 in the UK. And then there's local taxes to consider in the US.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> I've had my touchpad for just over a week and the case is already starting to crack around the speakers. Very thin plastic though.


That sounds like you should sell it on to me immediately.


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## scifisam (Sep 3, 2011)

editor said:


> The Kindle Wi-Fi is $139 in the US and £111 in the UK. And then there's local taxes to consider in the US.



The special edition wifi only one is $111, the 3G version is $139, and there are no local taxes on it. I bought two when I was on holiday out there, in two different states, one from  a shop and one from Amazon itself.


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## editor (Sep 3, 2011)

scifisam said:


> The special edition wifi only one is $111, the 3G version is $139, and there are no local taxes on it. I bought two when I was on holiday out there, in two different states, one from a shop and one from Amazon itself.


I refer you to my link, squire, to compare like with like.

The 'special edition' foists adverts on the screen.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 3, 2011)

So you only save $30 and have to deal with ads...I'd expect a much bigger discount!


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## scifisam (Sep 3, 2011)

editor said:


> I refer you to my link, squire, to compare like with like.
> 
> The 'special edition' foists adverts on the screen.



I know it does, since I have one. The ads are only there when you're not using the Kindle, so you only see them for a moment when you pick the device up. They're a bit pointless, really.

Hell, even $139 is WAY less than £111.


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 4, 2011)

editor said:


> That sounds like you should sell it on to me immediately.


Bugger off! Not for sale! Even if it has the wires hanging out the back I'm not selling it! I'm still very chuffed with my purchase!


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## ViolentPanda (Sep 4, 2011)

scifisam said:


> I know it does, since I have one. The ads are only there when you're not using the Kindle, so you only see them for a moment when you pick the device up. They're a bit pointless, really.
> 
> Hell, even $139 is WAY less than £111.



£26 less. $139 is around £85.


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## scifisam (Sep 4, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> £26 less. $139 is around £85.



That's quite a large percentage of £111. It's also a much worse rate than I got when I bought mine - (3G special edition, $139 was £75).


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## ViolentPanda (Sep 4, 2011)

scifisam said:


> That's quite a large percentage of £111. It's also a much worse rate than I got when I bought mine - (3G special edition, $139 was £75).



Dollar is shit, pound is shitter.


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## ExtraRefined (Sep 4, 2011)

scifisam said:


> That's quite a large percentage of £111. It's also a much worse rate than I got when I bought mine - (3G special edition, $139 was £75).



Almost all of that is tax. Include VAT and import duty, and the US price is equivalent to £107.


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## scifisam (Sep 4, 2011)

ExtraRefined said:


> Almost all of that is tax. Include VAT and import duty, and the US price is equivalent to £107.



Oh yeah, if you imported it it'd cost more, yeah, but that's (like Editor said) not comparing like with like. I mean, then you'd have to pay more postage too.


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## ExtraRefined (Sep 4, 2011)

The point is that there's not much mark up over the US price (about 3%). If the putative tablet is the same, it should cost £200 here.


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## scifisam (Sep 4, 2011)

ExtraRefined said:


> The point is that there's not much mark up over the US price (about 3%). If the putative tablet is the same, it should cost £200 here.



Um, if you include the costs of getting it from one country to another, yeah, but that's an odd comparison to make.


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## mack (Sep 27, 2011)

Bumped as this is going to be officially announced tomorrow..think all the tech sites will be live blogging.

If it's around £200 and easily hackable then I'll probably get one, I've got touchpad which is great for "coffee table" browsing but I want something smaller for mobile use (but bigger than my mobile!)


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## editor (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm VERY interested in this tablet.


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## gabi (Sep 27, 2011)

No camera = fail


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## mack (Sep 27, 2011)

BGR link for tomorrow

http://www.bgr.com/2011/09/28/live-from-amazons-kindle-fire-tablet-event


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## editor (Sep 27, 2011)

gabi said:


> No camera = fail


I used to think that until I tried to take a picture with a tablet - talk about cumbersome!

But I think you're missing the point of what I expect this tablet to be. It's not trying to be an Apple shiny do-it-all device but what it will do, it will do very well indeed. And it'll be cheap.


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## gabi (Sep 27, 2011)

i mean a video chat camera - one of my major uses of this would be skype


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## editor (Sep 27, 2011)

gabi said:


> i mean a video chat camera - one of my major uses of this would be skype


I don't think it's that kind of tablet. Besides, you can do video chat on home PCs and on many smartphones now.


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## gabi (Sep 27, 2011)

surely the idea of a tablet is that amalgamates both of those things?

my iMac needs replacing and it'll prolly be with an iPad. at an obviously massively inflated price. id go for the amazon device if it did vid skype tho, at that price.


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## editor (Sep 27, 2011)

gabi said:


> surely the idea of a tablet is that amalgamates both of those things?


Just like with the Kindle, Amazon are seeking to be different from the pack and offer an affordable gadget with its own advantages.

If video chat is that important, a cheapo Android tablet will do the job.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2011)

6gb internal memory; relying on cloud storage; and wi-fi only sounds like a relatively bold move... If the report linked in the OP is accurate!

It'd be more than easy enough to fill that out with enough media to outlast the reckoned 10-hr battery life.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

I like Amazon and I consume books by the bucketload through their Kindle Apps, but this tablet doesn't offer me anything that my 5" Dell Streak doesn't apart from a different UI and a bit more screen. It's not an iPad competitor by any means - and, as we all know, Android tablets are light-years behind the iPad when it comes to what matters - apps - anyway.


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 28, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> 6gb internal memory; relying on cloud storage; and wi-fi only sounds like a relatively bold move... If the report linked in the OP is accurate!
> 
> It'd be more than easy enough to fill that out with enough media to outlast the reckoned 10-hr battery life.


 When you consider how many people use their tablets on planes (I see lots when I fly) relying on cloud storage is rubbish. 6Gb isn't that much, once you've put a few movies on.  My 32gb tablet is almost full!


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## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> When you consider how many people use their tablets on planes (I see lots when I fly) relying on cloud storage is rubbish. 6Gb isn't that much, once you've put a few movies on. My 32gb tablet is almost full!


6gb of movies wouldn't last out the 10hr battery life estimated in the OP... Which seems... like a really... curious decision. Presuming it's accurate.

Throw in a few albums to pass the time, plus half a gig of apps, and you're going to be doing well to get away with a couple of films in whatever memory's left.

e2a: and even the airport analogy is - arguably - OTT. You just need to be away from a WiFi hotspot (or a free wifi hotspot) to make the 6gb pretty rapidly redundant. Given the OP suggests the first models are wifi only. And presuming the tablet's going to have an entertainment-type focus (and isn't - presumably - meant to be primarily for reading, given the use of a backlit / non - e-ink screen?!)


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> I like Amazon and I consume books by the bucketload through their Kindle Apps, but this tablet doesn't offer me anything that my 5" Dell Streak doesn't apart from a different UI and a bit more screen.


How can you say that before you've even seen the thing or know what it does?


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> How can you say that before you've even seen the thing or know what it does?



Of course I know what it does. It's a 7" tablet running native Amazon apps on top of a Android base-layer. It's not exactly reinventing the wheel!


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## pianissimo (Sep 28, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> I like Amazon and I consume books by the bucketload through their Kindle Apps, but this tablet doesn't offer me anything that my *5" Dell Streak* doesn't apart from a different UI and a bit more screen. It's not an iPad competitor by any means - and, as we all know, Android tablets are light-years behind the iPad when it comes to what matters - apps - anyway.


and I thought that beast is extinct.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

pianissimo said:


> and I thought that beast is extinct.



Happily, no. Mine's still going strong. Best phone I've ever used


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 28, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> 6gb of movies wouldn't last out the 10hr battery life estimated in the OP... Which seems... like a really... curious decision. Presuming it's accurate.
> 
> Throw in a few albums to pass the time, plus half a gig of apps, and you're going to be doing well to get away with a couple of films in whatever memory's left.
> 
> e2a: and even the airport analogy is - arguably - OTT. You just need to be away from a WiFi hotspot (or a free wifi hotspot) to make the 6gb pretty rapidly redundant. Given the OP suggests the first models are wifi only. And presuming the tablet's going to have an entertainment-type focus (and isn't - presumably - meant to be primarily for reading, given the use of a backlit / non - e-ink screen?!)



Well it's a problem if you're a boat dweller. Am quite often many miles from a hotspot.  As 3g isn't cheap I limit downloading until I'm on a relatives wifi.


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## pianissimo (Sep 28, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Happily, no. Mine's still going strong. Best phone I've ever used


I'd recommend you the Galaxy Note then.


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## magneze (Sep 28, 2011)

I might be interested in this if the price (<£200) and weight (<0.5kg) are right. A custom Android build could be genius or could be a nightmare getting future updates...


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## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> Well it's a problem if you're a boat dweller. Am quite often many miles from a hotspot. As 3g isn't cheap I limit downloading until I'm on a relatives wifi.


It's a problem if you're anyone who's intending to use it for anything other than extremely focused activities, anywhere other than your own home! It savages its use as a media player / entertainment device; except in the one area where it seems to be sabotaging itself - eBooks - by introducing a backlit screen...

Again - presuming the report in the OP is accurate...


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Of course I know what it does. It's a 7" tablet running native Amazon apps on top of a Android base-layer. It's not exactly reinventing the wheel!


No, you really haven't a clue. You haven't any idea about how the tablet looks like, what the UI looks like and - crucially - what differentiating apps and services it will be running.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2011)

Still.

I'd bet a good 50p that it won't exactly be reinventing the wheel


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> No, you really haven't a clue. You haven't any idea about how the tablet looks like, what the UI looks like and - crucially - what differentiating apps and services it will be running.



Oh come on! 

I haven't a clue what a 7" tablet will be like? Really? I'm guessing the Kindle app will be, er, the Kindle app. The music player will be a music player and - unbelievably - the video player will play video. The Amazon app store is nothing new so that won't be a surprise.

Re: looks - who really cares unless it's fugly?

Re: UI - I have no doubt it will be very nice.

Re: services - same as everything else but with a different UI.

Re: apps - it'll run some very high quality Amazon apps, of that I have no doubt, but only for key things... that aside it's just going to be version-limited editions of Android apps.

My phone does everything it will be able to do in a pocketable form-factor, and Kindle Tab doesn't have the undeniable wealth of apps that the iPad has so won't stop me getting one of those for Xmas.

I'm not being difficult or unreasonable. I'm just saying it's just going to be a nice, cheap version of what's already there. I'm sure it will sell by the bucketload compared to other Android tabs.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> No, you really haven't a clue. You haven't any idea about how the tablet looks like, what the UI looks like and - crucially - what differentiating apps and services it will be running.



What of my original post was inaccurate, btw?


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Oh come on!
> 
> I haven't a clue what a 7" tablet will be like? Really? I'm guessing the Kindle app will be, er, the Kindle app. The music player will be a music player and - unbelievably - the video player will play video. The Amazon app store is nothing new so that won't be a surprise.


Yes, you're _guessing_ and because of that I'm not entirely convinced by your claim that the Amazon tablet won't "offer anything that your 5" Dell Streak doesn't apart from a different UI and a bit more screen."


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## Kanda (Sep 28, 2011)

Oh here we go...


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## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2011)

I would blates get one if it turned into an ample, comfortable, and structurally resilient folding bike.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

Details coming out now: it's going to be $199 in the States and there's a cheap new $79 Kindle too.


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## gabi (Sep 28, 2011)

They're launching a second lower end one today too according to Engadget - $79US. mental.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

gabi said:


> They're launching a second lower end one today too according to Engadget - $79US. mental.


That may be the point at where I get one.  If I'm in the States it'll cost me just £50!


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## gabi (Sep 28, 2011)

http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/28/live-from-amazons-tablet-event-in-nyc/

not quite as razzmatazz as an apple launch, but not bad


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

I'm liking the size of the thing...


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

Kindle Touch with "most advanced" E Ink display is going to sell for $99, 3G version $149 ("Works in 100 countries, and has no annual contract, monthly fees, anything. "It's free 3G wireless."")


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## Kanda (Sep 28, 2011)

Kindle *touch* ???

This'll go well...


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Kindle *touch* ???
> 
> This'll go well...


Amazingly, Apple didn't invent that word.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

And on to the new tablet: "100,000 movies and TV shows, 17 million songs, access to the Android Appstore, Kindle books, full-colour magazines, and all stored for free using Amazon Cloud Storage."


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## Kanda (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Amazingly, Apple didn't invent that word.



I'm aware of that, I was taking the piss.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 28, 2011)

A cheaper basic kindle sounds good to me. Glad they aren't going all touch.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

So this is why Amazon launched its own Android appstore!


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## gabi (Sep 28, 2011)

Kanda said:


> I'm aware of that, I was taking the piss.



I think it'll still raise eyebrows in cupertino - they do love a good lawsuit


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## Kanda (Sep 28, 2011)

gabi said:


> I think it'll still raise eyebrows in cupertino - they do love a good lawsuit



They'll probably sue for the very cupertino like presentation. If only Bezo was wearing a black rollneck... !!


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## Divisive Cotton (Sep 28, 2011)

they are talking about it being $199 dollars here not $250:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-28/amazon-unveils-199-kindle-fire-tablet.html


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

Neat. Web content is partly rendered in the cloud to speed up browsing.


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## Kanda (Sep 28, 2011)

Divisive Cotton said:


> they are talking about it being $199 dollars here not $250:
> 
> http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-28/amazon-unveils-199-kindle-fire-tablet.html



If you watch here: http://www.engadget.com/2011/09/28/live-from-amazons-tablet-event-in-nyc/?sort=newest&refresh=60

You'll soon find out...


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## Crispy (Sep 28, 2011)

"in the cloud" 
"on a server" 
This is like Opera's Turbo mode, which is very useful on slow connections.
It's also a fantastic way for Amazon to collect your browsing habits and target adverts at you accordingly.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

This tablet looks great. I predict vast sales.


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## Lord Camomile (Sep 28, 2011)

So why the hell did I get my Kindle then?!


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## gabi (Sep 28, 2011)

> Unless Bezos goes on to say otherwise, the Kindle Fire looks like it will be US only for the time being. It appears intrinsically tied with Amazon cloud player, which hasn't yet launched outside the US for legal reasons. The launch of the first Kindle was US-only too, so this wouldn't be wholly extraordinary.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Yes, you're _guessing_ and because of that I'm not entirely convinced by your claim that the Amazon tablet won't "offer anything that your 5" Dell Streak doesn't apart from a different UI and a bit more screen."



Name one thing it _could_ offer that competing products don't.


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## gabi (Sep 28, 2011)

The Silk browser looks the main USP


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Oh here we go...



Na, I'm neither k_e nor editor. Everything I said is perfectly valid and entirely unbiased so I'm not going to get all weird about it.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> This tablet looks great. I predict vast sales.



Me too. It looks superb. Out Apple-ing Apple in terms of 'it just works'.

Still doesn't do anything for me that my phone does.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Na, I'm neither k_e nor editor. Everything I said is perfectly valid and entirely unbiased so I'm not going to get all weird about it.


Neither am I. He's just trolling. Ignore him.


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## cliche guevara (Sep 28, 2011)

This looks great. It seems the speculation was right in terms of size/price point etc. This is what the teblet market needed, and will be a serious game changer.


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## gabi (Sep 28, 2011)

It took them ages between the US launch and European launch of the first kindle so i wouldn't get too excited


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> This looks great. It seems the speculation was right in terms of size/price point etc. This is what the teblet market needed, and will be a serious game changer.


Reckon so. It does all the main stuff that people use a tablet for: browsing, reading, music, videos, games etc., and comes at an affordable price and is a great size.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

gabi said:


> It took them ages between the US launch and European launch of the first kindle so i wouldn't get too excited


IIRC, a lot of that was due to securing 3G deals in Europe.


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## Kanda (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Neither am I. He's just trolling. Ignore him.



Lighten up, I was having a laugh/joke.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

And now fingers crossed Apple drop the price of the iPad 2... 

They won't though. Probably even less likely to now, the stubborn fucks. Although without Jobs they might not be so bold.


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## cliche guevara (Sep 28, 2011)

I don;t think Apple need to drop the iPad price. The Kindle Tablet will appeal to a different user, or those who lusted after an iPad but couldn;t justify the price.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> I don;t think Apple need to drop the iPad price. The Kindle Tablet will appeal to a different user, or those who lusted after an iPad but couldn;t justify the price.



Maybe not. More likely that the iPad will become cheaper than Android will get even half the range and quality of apps available though.


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## Divisive Cotton (Sep 28, 2011)

kindle fire will come with its own web browser, which should be an interesting one for the web designers


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Maybe not. More likely that the iPad will become cheaper than Android will get even half the range and quality of apps available though.


Android is well on course to surpass Apple in terms of available apps.


> According to German research group research2guidance, The Android Marketplace could surpass Apple's App Store in size this year. As TechCrunch points out, another analytics company, Distimo, paints a similar picture. The research groups assume that the current growth rates of both markets remain the same. If so, the crossover date will happen sometime this August when both app stores hit 425,000 available apps.
> http://www.tuaw.com/2011/05/05/android-market-could-surpass-app-store-in-size-this-year-resear/


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

Android is also set to overtake the amount of app downloads too:


> Android smartphone users will download more apps than Apple iPhone owners this year, as sales of devices using the Google operating system surge ahead.
> 
> Applications, which range from games to alarm clocks and weather information, will jump from a total 7.4bn downloaded in 2010 to 18bn this year, according to a report from telecoms analyst Ovum.
> 
> ...


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## Divisive Cotton (Sep 28, 2011)

Divisive Cotton said:


> kindle fire will come with its own web browser, which should be an interesting one for the web designers


 there's more info here:

http://amazonsilk.wordpress.com/2011/09/28/introducing-amazon-silk/

if you use their browser then the data will be filtered through their servers to be optimized for speed - kind of like Opera Mini does on the mobile platform


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Android is well on course to surpass Apple in terms of available apps.



It's about quality, not quantity. I have been using Android for 9 months and it's not getting any better. Especially for tablets.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> It's about quality, not quantity. I have been using Android for 9 months and it's not getting any better. Especially for tablets.


There are some *very* high quality apps available on Android - more than ample for my needs - and of course, Android users can enjoy proper customisation options and useful widgets.


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 28, 2011)

So, the Kindle Touch isn't available in the UK. Tell me, tech-heads, would one be able to purchase a US version and have it still work over here? Would I be able to use the UK Kindle store? Or would I have to create a US account? Or what? Because I have someone who could ship one to me.

Is it worth the faff, if it would even work in the first place?


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> There are some *very* high quality apps available on Android - more than ample for my needs - and of course, Android users can enjoy proper customisation options and useful widgets.



Gawd! I fear I'm going to fall into the trap so I'm going to let the conversation go.

In brief, I'm very happy with my Android phone. I know I can customise it a lot and widgets sure are handy. I have no interest in an Android tablet though. It is WAY behind having the quantity and quality of tablet-specific apps available on iPad. That is irrefutable.


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## magneze (Sep 28, 2011)

magneze said:


> I might be interested in this if the price (<£200) and weight (<0.5kg) are right. A custom Android build could be genius or could be a nightmare getting future updates...


So it's £130 and 0.414kg. Wow. I'm impressed.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

magneze said:


> So it's £130 and 0.414kg. Wow. I'm impressed.


If those prices stick over here - and it arrives some time soon - then I'll probably be up for this. I can't justify spending £500 on a flashy tablet, but the Amazon Fire looks to offer all the things I need.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

In some respects, the Kindle doesn't get the credit it deserves:


> Since the Kindle was released in the UK just over a year ago it has gained a huge following and encouraged many people who had lost interest in books to start reading again. Along with this renewed interest in reading came a unique opportunity for UK authors to begin self-publishing their own books through Amazon's Kindle Direct Publishing, scheme which has created a vibrant market for low-cost books written by upcoming authors.
> 
> Being in close contact with both readers and authors I've witnessed a genuine increase in recreational reading since the Kindle arrived in the UK. In the words of one of our members: "Since I've had my Kindle I have read 63 books, which may not sound much to others, but considering I only read in single figures for the whole of last year that is a major jump."
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/booksblog/2011/sep/28/amazon-kindle-fire-e-reading


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

Here's more about their Silk Browser:


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 28, 2011)

A google around online seems to show that you can, indeed, buy a US Kindle and have it linked to your UK account and it will work fine. The 3G chip will be an AT&T one, but since there is free 3G roaming internationally, that's not an issue, and of course wifi works as you would expect.

Very handy.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2011)

DOES it have 6gb internal storage, then?

Is it made for travel, as well as at-home use?

(If the browswer's the main USP, and it's WiFi only...)

Impressive price point, mind!


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2011)

> In order to keep the price down, Amazon only bundled 8GB of on-board storage ... and there's no MicroSD card slot (Amazon is banking on cloud storage), no HDMI, GPS, or 3G capability.



So it's... not really aimed at out-of-house entertainment. Or, at least, it's not well set up for videos. Or much in the way of music. Or out-of-house browsing.

Anyone know if there's the potential to connect it to a hardware / bluetooth keyboard?


----------



## lobster (Sep 28, 2011)

The x-ray feature of the kindle touch sounds quite good, i hope they update the regular kindles to have that. A shame they have not added epub support (although converting them is trivial) .


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 28, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> DOES it have 6gb internal storage, then?
> 
> Is it made for travel, as well as at-home use?
> 
> ...


 
Yes it's made for travel. The wifi will work wherever there is wifi.

If it's the reader with 3G you're interested in, then the 3G will work internationally as well, for free.

Simply put, it'll work anywhere you can usually find 3G and wifi services. If you can use your phone or your laptop, you can use the Kindle.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2011)

Vintage Paw said:


> Yes it's made for travel. The wifi will work wherever there is wifi.



You encounter many wifi hotspots whilst traveling? Where? Motorway service stations? Or at / around your destination?

Maybe I'm unusually parochial; the last few trips I've made've been train / plane, and the only wifi I've encountered on either has been paid access. And the 1hr free wifi at Nice airport, admittedly. Those're also the only occasions on which I've been particularly thankful for having more internal memory than I need - because it's pretty damned hard to guess, before 8-10hrs of traveling, what exactly is going to look interesting in 6-8hrs time. And those're the occasions when having a tablet's been a godsend (particularly given the last 2 times I've flown back from France, I've hit 6-12hr delays...)

e2a: and the only WiFi I could access during fieldwork - apart from weekends at home - was from my mobile.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> So it's... not really aimed at out-of-house entertainment. Or, at least, it's not well set up for videos. Or much in the way of music. Or out-of-house browsing.


Umm, I think you need to get up speed with the concept of cloud storage:


> Over 100,000 movies and TV shows, including thousands of new releases and your favorite TV shows, are available to stream or download, purchase or rent - all just one tap away. Amazon Prime members enjoy unlimited, commercial-free streaming of over 10,000 popular movies and TV shows...
> 
> Stream your music library from Amazon Cloud Drive or download to your device and listen offline...
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> You encounter many wifi hotspots whilst traveling?


If there's no wi-fi about, I just fire up my phone and use its built in wi-fi hotspot feature. Problem solved.

There's rumoured to be a 10" tablet coming later which may well have 3G, btw.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

I think this reviewer sums up the appeal well:



> I love my Kindle, and I love my iPad. I don't love their processors, or their RAM, or their connectivity options, or any of the other guts. I love their simplicity, and that's why I buy Kindles over other ebook readers and iPads over other tablets. Bezos - and by extension, Amazon - gets that, and the Kindle Fire clearly comes from that philosophy.
> 
> This isn't something you'd buy your mum and regret for the next three years as she calls every day with a new tech trouble; this is something you can buy as a present and pretty much forget about it.Can you really say the same about an Asus Eee Pad Transformer? It's a lovely wee tablet for you, or for me - but is it really the right thing for anyone who isn't a geek?
> 
> ...


----------



## elbows (Sep 28, 2011)

OK this is very good stuff, I am very happy with this move. The iPad is only just starting to break into the realm of anyone I know at work buying one, and I want to see decent tablets in much broader use, with a greater range of price points. I expect the wait for this device to appear in the UK might be a bit tedious, but ultimately I think this may well me the right device for my mother.


----------



## elbows (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> There are some *very* high quality apps available on Android - more than ample for my needs - and of course, Android users can enjoy proper customisation options and useful widgets.



Your three posts here bout android apps are not wrong, but at the same time I think they give a misleading impression of the state of Android tablet apps. But the devil is in the detail, it depends what sort of apps we are talking about for example.

Personally I sit somewhere in the middle, neither believing that the state of Android tablet apps today is satisfactory, nor that Android tablet apps have only a poor chance of becoming rather special over time. Enough quality android tablets selling in huge numbers and I think things will be ok on this front. Its already fine for certain sorts of use, but please stop suggesting that all is completely rosy on this front.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Umm, I think you need to get up speed with the concept of cloud storage:


No, fully appreciated, but that isn't really an out-and-about solution, is it? It'll be really interesting to see how the cloud storage is implemented, and how well it works around the limitations of having a smaller inbuilt memory. tbh, I can see it working pretty well, in most situations. Particularly if - for example - your progress in a game is saved in the cloud, meaning that you can switch the apps that're stored on your tablet without losing any progress in a game, or documents in a word processing app, or whatever.

But no-one is going to be able to walk out of the house with much in the way of variety stored on their Kindle tablet, are they?

Cloud is great in opening some things up; but it comes with a different set of limitations to inbuilt memory. Limitations that are particularly pertinent when someone doesn't have direct internet access. Like when they're traveling.



editor said:


> If there's no wi-fi about, I just fire up my phone and use its built in wi-fi hotspot feature. Problem solved.


OK, great, but, well. That's kind of like saying that the Kindle tablet looks quite useful as a companion device, just so long as you've got an android that can provide you with a wi-fi hotspot.

tbh, I'm not even that keen on 3g. It - again - carries limitations with it that inbuilt memory doesn't.

It's the particular confluence of low internal memory, combined with a lack of 3g, that's kinda making me think , though.

It looks perfect for Artichoke, tbh. Who mostly uses her iPod touch for watching Waterloo Road and connecting to facebook, whilst at home. But - e.g. - it'd be fuck all use to someone who was off to France for a week (or anywhere else abroad), and who wasn't likely to have readily available WiFi.



> There's rumoured to be a 10" tablet coming later which may well have 3G, btw.


Sounds interesting; again, IMO, the thing that looks interesting (or the main limitation) is the combination of low internal memory, plus a lack of 3g. IMO, addressing either of those would be a significant step up.

I really am a bit unconvinced by it not being able to hold enough media / video to outlast its battery.


----------



## lobster (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> There are some *very* high quality apps available on Android - more than ample for my needs - and of course, Android users can enjoy proper customisation options and useful widgets.



Are you referring to Android tablet apps or android phone apps, there is a big difference?
The phone apps are fine, the tablet apps are lacking in comparison, I remember linking on another thread to a review of the Samsung galaxy tab 10.1 3 months ago and reviewer was less that satisfied with the lack of applicaitons,  Three months on nothing has really changed.


----------



## lobster (Sep 28, 2011)

Amazons cloud has come down a few times this year,


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> But no-one is going to be able to walk out of the house with much in the way of variety stored on their Kindle tablet, are they?


8GB can provide a hell of a lot of content for offline use ("80 apps, plus either 10 movies or 800 songs or 6,000 books"), but if you're hooked to the web, then you've got access to 100,000 movies and TV shows, 17 million songs, Kindle books and full-colour magazines stored for free on Amazon Cloud Storage.

Al tablets are about shuffling around compromises and priorities, but I'm pretty sure that a lot of people are going to find Amazon's tablet a very, very seductive offering - after all, it's smaller, lighter and over half the price of the iPad, and for many people people, it'll do all the things they need.

Unless there's something seriously screwed up with the tablet, the Fire is going to be MASSIVE in the States. Bigger than the Kindle.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

lobster said:


> Are you referring to Android tablet apps or android phone apps, there is a big difference?
> The phone apps are fine, the tablet apps are lacking in comparison, I remember linking on another thread to a review of the Samsung galaxy tab 10.1 3 months ago and reviewer was less that satisfied with the lack of applicaitons, Three months on nothing has really changed.


Phone apps because the Fire tablet is running a modified version of Android 2.1 (which is a phone OS).

Notably, Android tablet and phone apps will merge soon with the release of the daftly named Android Ice Cream Sandwich - this provides one, unified OS for the entire Android platform.


----------



## cliche guevara (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> There are some *very* high quality apps available on Android - more than ample for my needs - and of course, Android users can enjoy proper customisation options and useful widgets.


There is a distinct lack of Honeycomb specific apps though. Google have gone some way to resolving that by implementing scaling in 3.1 so most apps now work fine on Honeycomb, but there are still a lack of quality apps designed specifically for tablets. That's one place where the iPad currently holds the crown, but I'm expecting the imminent release of ICS to rectify this problem.

Edit: You've basically posted the same point while I was typing


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> I really am a bit unconvinced by it not being able to hold enough media / video to outlast its battery.


You'd need a hell of a battery to power 10 movies from start to finish or play around 200 hours of MP3 files!


----------



## Sunray (Sep 28, 2011)

I am unsure about having all my web requests going through AWS EC2.  Its a huge system that is very impressive and very useful, but what they are saying is that they will be the tablets ISP because even if its on wifi it will still be going through Amazon.

I wonder what they will be doing with that data?


----------



## cliche guevara (Sep 28, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I am unsure about having all my web requests going through AWS EC2. Its a huge system that is very impressive and very useful, but what they are saying is that they will be the tablets ISP because even if its on wifi it will still be going through Amazon.
> 
> I wonder what they will be doing with that data?


Collecting information on shopping habits I expect.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

Sunray said:


> I am unsure about having all my web requests going through AWS EC2. Its a huge system that is very impressive and very useful, but what they are saying is that they will be the tablets ISP because even if its on wifi it will still be going through Amazon.


You can opt out, so it's entirely up to you.


> Fortunately Amazon will support an "off-cloud" mode for Silk. This lets users opt-out of the benefits of using EC2 while retaining the traditional privacy benefits of connecting directly to remote web sites.
> 
> http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/201...ires-silk-browser-sounds-privacy-alarm-bells/


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## elbows (Sep 28, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Cloud is great in opening some things up; but it comes with a different set of limitations to inbuilt memory. Limitations that are particularly pertinent when someone doesn't have direct internet access. Like when they're traveling.



Its a bit too early to judge quite how well cloud stuff of this sort is going to work, how often people will become annoyed by limitations.

I think I will struggle to fully embrace the idea that I don't have my own local copy of lots of stuff, Im pretty strongly wedded to collecting things and keeping them close at hand.

So I like to ponder hybrids. Maybe I would like a small battery powered solid state device with quite a lot of capacity and built in wifi, that I could slip into my bag if I was going to venture into a could less environment for an extended period and wanted lots on hand to consume, and then I would access this device from my tablet via wifi. But in some ways this is silly overkill, and Id be better off with a device that let me insert memory sticks.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> You can opt out, so it's entirely up to you.



That's the Facebook line too.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> That's the Facebook line too.


Failed comparison. I can't opt out of people joining me up to their shitty groups, for example.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

Check out the video preview. It's good:
http://gizmodo.com/5844742/video-of-the-amazon-kindle-fire-in-action-up-close


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## mack (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Phone apps because the Fire tablet is running a modified version of Android 2.1 (which is a phone OS).



I think it's running with gingerbread 2.3 - and according to this article should be easily hackable which will mean keep the good shit and get rid of the bloaty stuff  

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2393740,00.asp#fbid=zZ1FtwyYyV9


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## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

That earlier link said 2.1 but I don't think anyone's sure yet.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 28, 2011)

So the $79 Kindle is £89 in the UK.

Which will make the $199 Fire about £229, I guess?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Sep 28, 2011)

under 250 for the fire... thats kinda doable.

i'm not sure if i would  just  because  i'm teched up to the eyeballs.   but i might  get the kindle touch.  i really like the kindle  and  touch makes sence.,  i wonder what the  browser is like


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## Vintage Paw (Sep 28, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> So the $79 Kindle is £89 in the UK.
> 
> Which will make the $199 Fire about £229, I guess?



*sigh*

That doesn't even wash with the whole "but add 20% VAT" argument, which would translate as under £70 after conversion.

Fucking US-UK electronics rip-offs.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> 8GB can provide a hell of a lot of content for offline use ("80 apps, plus either 10 movies or 800 songs or 6,000 books")


Is that 80x100mb apps? Yeah, ok, I can see that working. Given the state of android apps 

But then you don't have the films. (My bad - I tend to think of 1gb as about 1hr, when - ok - it's more like 1gb to 1.5hrs, looking at my library).

If you have the films, then you don't have the music. Or the apps.

If you have the films or the music or the apps, then you don't have the books!

By the time most people've put a bit of each of those on their tablet, IMO they'll be proper bashing up against the limits of 8gb.

ATM, I've got 22 albums on my iPod; that's 3gb. And, tbh, that's a pretty bare minimum (IMO) for having a reputable variety of music available. (And there's another 3 or so gb stored separately, in apps that'll allow me to up the pitch; but let's forget those for the mo).

Notch on, what? A conservative 1gb of apps? And that's down to 4gb available for other media... Books, ok, trivial.

But... yeah... On the basis of apps and music alone, I've struggled to keep an 8gb iPod to its limit. In fact, I failed dismally; which is why I got a 32gb one.

I can see the cloud working ok for shifting things in and out a whole lot, and - obv - the apps are likely to take up a whole lot less space. I will be blates interested in seeing how they manage apps with the cloud, too - and whether or not anything's lost when an app's moved 'to the cloud' and then transferred back to the tablet again. Or whether the 'state' of the app and the 'state' you left it in (IYSWIM) is taken off and on with it.

But... yeah. IMO, the memory is the main point that leaves me thinking 'eep.'

Might still get Artichoke one, on some convenient occasion. It does look eminently well suited to how she tends to use her iPod atm.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> By the time most people've put a bit of each of those on their tablet, IMO they'll be proper bashing up against the limits of 8gb.
> 
> ATM, I've got 22 albums on my iPod; that's 3gb. And, tbh, that's a pretty bare minimum (IMO) for having a reputable variety of music available. (And there's another 3 or so gb stored separately, in apps that'll allow me to up the pitch; but let's forget those for the mo).


Are you _really_ this incapable of realising that not everyone will use a tablet in the same way as you, and for many, 8GB will be absolutely plenty when it's accompanied by unlimited online storage and streaming services?


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## mrs quoad (Sep 28, 2011)

editor said:


> Are you _really_ this incapable of realising that not everyone will use a tablet in the same way as you, and for many, 8GB will be absolutely plenty when it's accompanied by unlimited online storage and streaming services?


Clearly not 


mrs quoad said:


> Might still get Artichoke one, on some convenient occasion. It does look eminently well suited to how she tends to use her iPod atm.


----------



## editor (Sep 28, 2011)

Actually, it's obvious why there's no version with free built in 3G being offered - this thing is going to hog data like a mutha'. Any 3G offering would have to charge monthly along the lines of the iPad contracts.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Sep 28, 2011)

That's a good point. Downloading ebooks doesn't take much at all, in comparison.


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## editor (Sep 29, 2011)

I just like it a little bit more already.



> Amazon: The Kindle Fire Will Get Rooted
> 
> Amazon's new Kindle Fire tablet has a great user interface, but many of our readers already want to get rid of it. That's OK. Amazon isn't doing anything special to prevent techies from "rooting" and rewriting the software on its powerful yet inexpensive new tablet, Jon Jenkins, director of Amazon's Silk browser project said.
> 
> ...


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 29, 2011)

editor said:


> Actually, it's obvious why there's no version with free built in 3G being offered - this thing is going to hog data like a mutha'. Any 3G offering would have to charge monthly along the lines of the iPad contracts.


Yep this is my point - Using 3g to access stuff from the Cloud  - a recipe for bankruptcy IMHO.  It varies from £5 per gb for most PAYG deals to £15 for 15GB a month on a 2 year contract from 3  If you are accessing music and films you will burn through your allowance.


----------



## kropotkin (Sep 29, 2011)

editor said:


> 8GB can provide a hell of a lot of content for offline use ("80 apps, plus either 10 movies or 800 songs or 6,000 books"), but if you're hooked to the web, then you've got access to 100,000 movies and TV shows, 17 million songs, Kindle books and full-colour magazines stored for free on Amazon Cloud Storage.


Well, you have access to those things if you are a subscriber to Amazon Prime. And only if.


----------



## kropotkin (Sep 29, 2011)

So to make this a useable device out of the house there are two options.

you pay amazon to buy (again) all your digital content from them. Then it is stored for you for free on their cloud drive and you can copy it to the kindle at will for offline use.
you just copy the content to the kindle and have to swap things on/off "tethered" to a computer
you pay an additional fee on a yearly basis for the cloud drive, starting at $20/year for 20gb and laboriously upload your mp3s and videos to make them wirelessly available
you pay $79 a year (until they ramp that up!) to be a member of Prime, and then the video content is largely cloud based. Music still not included.
This just doesn't seem workable to me.


----------



## BoxRoom (Sep 29, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> So the $79 Kindle is £89 in the UK.
> 
> Which will make the $199 Fire about £229, I guess?



I think it's the $109 version (without ads) that is on sale here for 89 quid.

I'm only keen to get a new kindle because it's new but I'm still very happy with my Kindle Keyboard (as they call it now). I really like the cover I've got for it which isn't one of those ones that hold it in place by elastic on the corners. For some reason I've taken a bit of a hatred towards those.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Sep 29, 2011)

BoxRoom said:


> I think it's the $109 version (without ads) that is on sale here for 89 quid.


Yeah, noticed that and mentioned it on the other Kindle thread. No ad-supported version available in the UK.
I wonder whether the Fire is similarly ad-supported, or whether they're relying on selling everyone an Amazon Prime deal on those.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2011)

kropotkin said:


> you just copy the content to the kindle and have to swap things on/off "tethered" to a computer


Only if you need GBs of content on your tablet. For a lot of people, I suspect that the tablet will be perfect for most day to day needs (music, browsing, watching TV, Spotify, reading books etc).


----------



## grit (Sep 29, 2011)

lobster said:


> Amazons cloud has come down a few times this year,



The five 9s uptime is a myth that no one is capable of doing, AWS has had about 3 outtages this year which were relatively minor, its still a fucking amazing service.

Typical all this talk a bout the tablet and the one thing I'm interested in, battery life, is not mentioned


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## magneze (Sep 29, 2011)

8 hours apparently


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2011)

grit said:


> Typical all this talk a bout the tablet and the one thing I'm interested in, battery life, is not mentioned


It's around 8 hours, 7.5 hours video. Easily good enough for me.


----------



## Crispy (Sep 29, 2011)

This will sell very well indeed.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2011)

Crispy said:


> This will sell very well indeed.


The argument isn't _quite_ so persuasive here, but in the States - where Amazon have a shedload of services for the thing - it's going to be the perfect first tablet for an awful lot of people, and the price point is just right.

It's going to be huge.


----------



## mrs quoad (Sep 29, 2011)

Fully agreed.

Shame there's no SD slot, but ay!


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Fully agreed.
> 
> Shame there's no SD slot, but ay!


Yes, a SD card would have really added to the possibilities, but I guess Amazon want you locked into their cloud services. That said, it's still a very compelling package for the price.


----------



## Kanda (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm quite surprised that people aren't getting on their high horses about being locked into Amazon's cloud services.

If this were certain other manufacturers, there would be uproar.


----------



## kropotkin (Sep 29, 2011)

But the cloud doesn't come with it, you have to pay a yearly subscription to get that or rebut all your content from them. Otherwise it is just an 8gb unexpandable tablet


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2011)

kropotkin said:


> But the cloud doesn't come with it, you have to pay a yearly subscription to get that or rebut all your content from them. Otherwise it is just an 8gb unexpandable tablet


Which may be fine for a lot of people's needs seeing as the Internet has tons of free content.

It's only the equivalent of £128 in the States, ffs. If you want all the bells and whistles and acres of storage, then spend more.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2011)

Kanda said:


> I'm quite surprised that people aren't getting on their high horses about being locked into Amazon's cloud services.
> 
> If this were certain other manufacturers, there would be uproar.


You're not locked into anything and unlike a certain manufacturer, they won't try and bork your device if you fiddle about with the OS.


----------



## elbows (Sep 29, 2011)

editor said:


> You're not locked into anything and unlike a certain manufacturer, they won't try and bork your device if you fiddle about with the OS.



Apple do not try and break your device if you jailbreak. They do try to plug the holes that make jail breaking possible, the usual cat & mouse game.

They filed a patent some years ago for detection of things such as SIM removal, jail breaking, etc, as part of a system that would detect events such as unauthorised use of a device. This caused a storm of speculative internet articles which often stated that apple were going to brick jailbroken devices, but they have not actually done so, and there are plenty of people who question whether Apple would take things that far, for regardless of what you may think this would be a step beyond their normal control-freakery. A more likely possibility is that they would block access to certain Apple services from jailbroken devices.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2011)

elbows said:


> Apple do not try and break your device if you jailbreak. They do try to plug the holes that make jail breaking possible, the usual cat & mouse game.


Which Amazon have specifically stated that they will not do.

Freedom to do what you like with the item you've bought. Who would have thought of such a thing!


----------



## ChrisFilter (Sep 29, 2011)

Amazon are doing plenty of _relatively_ walled-garden things with the Fire that you'd be slating Apple for. Is it simply because Apple charge so much more for their walled-garden? I could understand that.


----------



## editor (Sep 29, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Amazon are doing plenty of _relatively_ walled-garden things with the Fire that you'd be slating Apple for. Is it simply because Apple charge so much more for their walled-garden? I could understand that.


I'm not the biggest fan of Amazon but there is a huge difference between the two offerings here. The Fire is cheap enough to make it a real tool for hackers and geeks to play around with, so there's going to be some fun stuff happening - and I like the fact that the company have already stated that they won't be trying to block them at every turn.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2011)

Kanda said:


> I'm quite surprised that people aren't getting on their high horses about being locked into Amazon's cloud services.
> 
> If this were certain other manufacturers, there would be uproar.



Well if this was a certain other company there'd be outrage for sure but Amazon is a corporation people feel permitted to trust.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Sep 29, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Well if this was a certain other company there'd be outrage for sure but Amazon is a corporation people feel permitted to trust.


Like fuck. Amazon have been proven to be untrustworthy bastards and have a track record for shit DRM. They aren't on the side of the angels.

On the other hand they're a lot more simple, transparent if you will than Apple. They aren't the rebels and have never claimed to be. That does mean that when they are cunts i don't feel as betrayed.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2011)

I've never felt betrayed by any corporation tbh...they all act as they are legally required to: maximize profits for their shareholders.


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## Bob_the_lost (Sep 29, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I've never felt betrayed by any corporation tbh...they all act as they are legally required to: maximize profits for their shareholders.


Fine, their marketing isn't hypocrital bollocks. Happier now when I say that you're boring when every other post you make is moaning about how apple are hard done by?


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2011)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Fine, their marketing isn't hypocrital bollocks. Happier now when I say that you're boring when every other post you make is moaning about how apple are hard done by?



I've never once said Apple are hard done, I've argued consistently that they should just be treated the same as any other corporation. I'm totally honest about my strident views on corporate control and profit seeking!

E2a: applying moral agency to marketing decisions is idiotic, [commercial] marketing doesn't exist for moral reasons, it exists to help you empty your wallet.


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## Kanda (Sep 29, 2011)

Doesn't have a camera

Doesn't have a card slot

Tied in

I remember those arguments....

Fucking hilarious....


----------



## pinkmonkey (Sep 29, 2011)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Like fuck. Amazon have been proven to be untrustworthy bastards and have a track record for shit DRM. They aren't on the side of the angels.
> 
> On the other hand they're a lot more simple, transparent if you will than Apple. They aren't the rebels and have never claimed to be. That does mean that when they are cunts i don't feel as betrayed.



I'm not mad on either company TBH. Amazon have been absolute cunts to people I know who supplied them (shoe trade people) to the point that a couple of companies have gone bust. Funnily enough someone who I loathe - an ex boss of mine who a colleague successfully sued for constructive dismissal, a right sexist pig is now head of that buying team at Amazon.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 29, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Doesn't have a camera
> 
> Doesn't have a card slot
> 
> ...



Yep...


----------



## Kanda (Sep 29, 2011)

Oh.. the camera is shit

Doesn't have a front facing camera (cos EVERYONE uses video conf)

But it's cheap and you can hack it (just like you can an iPad)

But it's not Apple so it's fine...

Yeah, great chat...


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

Yeah...but not much you can do really, you raise this shit and suddenly you're as bad as the object in discussion...anyway, shiny new iPhone4S/ 5 thread for those who want to discuss it without the baggage of the old threads is now live on this forum...


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## editor (Sep 30, 2011)

Kanda said:


> Oh.. the camera is shit
> 
> Doesn't have a front facing camera (cos EVERYONE uses video conf)
> 
> ...


(((Apple)))

PS Check out the title of the thread. It's about the new Amazon tablet, not irrelevant, two year old arguments about your favourite tech company.

x


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## mrs quoad (Sep 30, 2011)

Two-year-old arguments have passed their sell-by date, and can now be repackaged as environmentally friendly recyclo-arguments which all decent and right-thinking people can heartily agree with


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## editor (Sep 30, 2011)

Anyway, back on topic: the Fire is now at the very top of Amazon.com's best sellers list.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/bestsellers


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## mrs quoad (Sep 30, 2011)

Fantastic, ay.


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## grit (Sep 30, 2011)

So 200 dollars, what are the guesses for the uk prices?


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

grit said:


> So 200 dollars, what are the guesses for the uk prices?



£199?


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## Kanda (Sep 30, 2011)

editor said:


> favourite tech company.
> 
> x



VMware are probably my favourite tech company. I don't give a shit about Apple and their bonkers ways, just laughing at how shit turns out on here.


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## mwgdrwg (Sep 30, 2011)

Can you stream media from your home network without having to hack it?


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## mack (Sep 30, 2011)

/Obi wan/ this is not the tablet you're looking for..

Think I'll have to pass on this one, it's designed and built for your average punter, your mum, your granddad..  nothing too complicated, it just works, plenty of content etc. etc.  

It will be most likely easily hackable but with only 8 gig on board storage you'll soon fill that up and then the device just becomes a pain in the arse.

I think google should release their own branded tablet (tied in with all their services) make it hackable, plenty of storage and under £250.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

A friend mentioned liking the look of this saying 'we all want an ipad but who can afford one?'. Think that's the market Amazon is going to eat up, this isn't a threat to the iPad its a strong contender for the number 2 spot and all other tablet makers (whether using android or not) should be very worried indeed. If they can barely sell a 100k without this in the market there's no way they're going to shift a 10th of that when the A Fire arrives!


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> A friend mentioned liking the look of this saying 'we all want an ipad but who can afford one?'. Think that's the market Amazon is going to eat up, this isn't a threat to the iPad its a strong contender for the number 2 spot and all other tablet makers (whether using android or not) should be very worried indeed. If they can barely sell a 100k without this in the market there's no way they're going to shift a 10th of that when the A Fire arrives!



I think it is a threat to the iPad. I reckon within 2 years there'll be more of these sold than iPads. The iPad is just too big and too expensive to appeal to as wide a section of the market as the Fire. My Mum or Dad would never get an iPad, but they did get a Kindle and they did get iPods and they would get this.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> I think it is a threat to the iPad. I reckon within 2 years there'll be more of these sold than iPads. The iPad is just too big and too expensive to appeal to as wide a section of the market as the Fire. My Mum or Dad would never get an iPad, but they did get a Kindle and they did get iPods and they would get this.



I'm not so sure...my feeling at present is the tablet market is largely going to mimic the mp3 market of the last decade but we shall see...plus all Apple has to do is release a 7 incher and it'll head off the competition easily as it has a superior user experience but more importantly a very well connected app eco system.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 30, 2011)

Problem with relying on the cloud is you just can't get a fast enough data connection most of the time...sure 3g can be great, but more often then not you wouldn't want to stream music let alone video with it. Not for me with such a tiny memory.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 30, 2011)

I'd be more excited about another large company making e readers rather then just another tablet.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Problem with relying on the cloud is you just can't get a fast enough data connection most of the time...sure 3g can be great, but more often then not you wouldn't want to stream music let alone video with it. Not for me with such a tiny memory.



For your average user I don't expect 8 gig is actually that bad (for me it's pitifully small) and if they're using it primarily at home net connection won't be that big an issue either.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm not so sure...my feeling at present is the tablet market is largely going to mimic the mp3 market of the last decade but we shall see...plus all Apple has to do is release a 7 incher and it'll head off the competition easily as it has a superior user experience but more importantly a very well connected app eco system.


Crikey.

So the iPad, the iPod / iPhone, and an intermediate touch gadget in between?! You reckon?!



Global Stoner said:


> Problem with relying on the cloud is you just can't get a fast enough data connection most of the time...sure 3g can be great, but more often then not you wouldn't want to stream music let alone video with it. Not for me with such a tiny memory.


I'm kinda aware of how long it takes to DL 8gb to my iMac; I'm not too sure I'd want to be doing that too regularly with any device I wanted to do stuff with


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Sep 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> For your average user I don't expect 8 gig is actually that bad (for me it's pitifully small) and if they're using it primarily at home net connection won't be that big an issue either.



Genuine question...do most people use tablets mostly at home? My laptop never comes out unless I leave the house, if I owned a tablet it would probably be similar as it wouldn't be replacing my Kindle.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Crikey.
> 
> So the iPad, the iPod / iPhone, and an intermediate touch gadget in between?! You reckon?!



Yup, Apple will do it if there's a serious threat to their profits, simple corporate logic really. Do what makes you the most money, come up with clever advertising to distract from that and change tac when it suits to make more money.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Genuine question...do most people use tablets mostly at home? My laptop never comes out unless I leave the house, if I owned a tablet it would probably be similar as it wouldn't be replacing my Kindle.



Data is sketchy but there's been a couple of polls which suggest people use their iPads mainly at home (I'm not sure any other tablet has sold well enough to make polling worthwhile tbh).


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## Crispy (Sep 30, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Genuine question...do most people use tablets mostly at home? My laptop never comes out unless I leave the house, if I owned a tablet it would probably be similar as it wouldn't be replacing my Kindle.


Mostly at home. It's a computer for the lounge and bedroom.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 30, 2011)

iPads are too big/too valuable to take out with you casually. On longer trips, of course, but to work every day? No.


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I'm not so sure...my feeling at present is the tablet market is largely going to mimic the mp3 market of the last decade but we shall see...plus all Apple has to do is release a 7 incher and it'll head off the competition easily as it has a superior user experience but more importantly a very well connected app eco system.



It won't head it off easily because Apple won't do it for much less than the 10" tablets. The mp3 market is, on the whole, a sub-£200 market. With iPads being nearer £500 it's a very different ball game - nearer the Mac as luxury item, PC as mainstay home computer market.


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## mrs quoad (Sep 30, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> iPads are too big/too valuable to take out with you casually. On longer trips, of course, but to work every day? No.


Really? I was routinely working out of the house with mine for a good 6 months, earlier this year.

e2a: though tbf, this really really isn't a high crime area.


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## Kanda (Sep 30, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> iPads are too big/too valuable to take out with you casually. On longer trips, of course, but to work every day? No.



I always take mine everywhere. Sky Go in the pub for Jeff Stelling on a Saturday afternoon rocks  Also, I can remote desktop in with it if I get out of hours calls.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> It won't head it off easily because Apple won't do it for much less than the 10" tablets. The mp3 market is, on the whole, a sub-£200 market. With iPads being nearer £500 it's a very different ball game - nearer the Mac as luxury item, PC as mainstay home computer market.



And yet people are still buying Apple products in the recession and the current economic time of austerity. But as I said we shall see, I'm not 100% on my views on this, and don't think anyone really understands how the tablet market is going to pan out...


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And yet people are still buying Apple products in the recession and the current economic time of austerity. But as I said we shall see, I'm not 100% on my views on this, and don't think anyone really understands how the tablet market is going to pan out...



Of course they are, but more people are buying cheaper Windows PCs.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Of course they are, but more people are buying cheaper Windows PCs.



So if Apple releases a 7" tablet at a cheaper price than the ipad how will they lose?


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## ChrisFilter (Sep 30, 2011)

EBecause it won't be cheap enough now Amazon have brought a $199 rival onto the market.


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## editor (Sep 30, 2011)

I don't think we'll be getting this tablet in the UK any time soon because Amazon doesn't have the same content deals as it does in the States - and without that, it loses a lot of its appeal.


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## editor (Sep 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So if Apple releases a 7" tablet at a cheaper price than the ipad how will they lose?


But Steve Jobs has emphatically informed us that 7-Inch Tablets Are ‘Dead on Arrival’!


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## elbows (Sep 30, 2011)

editor said:


> I don't think we'll be getting this tablet in the UK any time soon because Amazon doesn't have the same content deals as it does in the States - and without that, it loses a lot of its appeal.



Yeah, especially if they struggle for ages to meet amazing demand stateside.


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## Lazy Llama (Sep 30, 2011)

editor said:


> I don't think we'll be getting this tablet in the UK any time soon because Amazon doesn't have the same content deals as it does in the States - and without that, it loses a lot of its appeal.


Amazon own Lovefilm, I suspect they're okay on media deals in the UK
LF have just launched an iPad app for streaming movies. 

The advertising revenue might be more of an issue.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

editor said:


> But Steve Jobs has emphatically informed us that 7-Inch Tablets Are ‘Dead on Arrival’!



So? He's said things like that before and gone and done it. Btw you do know that Jobs aint running the show now at Apple right?


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## editor (Sep 30, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> Amazon own Lovefilm, I suspect they're okay on media deals in the UK
> LF have just launched an iPad app for streaming movies.
> 
> The advertising revenue might be more of an issue.


But there's no Amazon Music or Amazon Cloud here and there's potentially legal issues about the browser.


> In reflection, it may be due to U.S. cloud and legal concerns regarding the Silk browser, as documented by colleague Steven J. Vaughan-Nicols. In short, the tablets cannot be sold in the European market because the cloud-based browser would be in breach of European data protection laws. Though data would reside in an EU-based datacenter, because Amazon is a U.S. headquartered company, the data would still be vulnerable to U.S. law.
> 
> http://www.zdnet.com/blog/igenerati...lable-to-europe-blame-us-legal-concerns/12999


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

Lazy Llama said:


> Amazon own Lovefilm, I suspect they're okay on media deals in the UK
> LF have just launched an iPad app for streaming movies.
> 
> The advertising revenue might be more of an issue.



Yep, the new streaming iPad is a very neat idea, I've been wondering when Amazon would turn LOVEfilm into it's netflix for devices...


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## mrs quoad (Sep 30, 2011)

editor said:


> (((Apple)))
> 
> PS Check out the title of the thread. It's about the new Amazon tablet, not irrelevant, two year old arguments about your favourite tech company.
> 
> x


Several hours later...


editor said:


> But Steve Jobs has emphatically informed us that 7-Inch Tablets Are ‘Dead on Arrival’!






[/mischief]


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

mrs quoad said:


> Several hours later...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



LOL!


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## lobster (Sep 30, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> And yet people are still buying Apple products in the recession and the current economic time of austerity.



I have somewhat wondered myself why Apple,Microsoft and others are doing extremely well in recession.


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## Kid_Eternity (Sep 30, 2011)

lobster said:


> I have somewhat wondered myself why Apple,Microsoft and others are doing extremely well in recession.



Yep me too...xbox kinect has sold insanely well despite the downturn. Perhaps it's investing in things you can entertain yourself with at home rather than spending loads going out?


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## pinkmonkey (Sep 30, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Problem with relying on the cloud is you just can't get a fast enough data connection most of the time...sure 3g can be great, but more often then not you wouldn't want to stream music let alone video with it. Not for me with such a tiny memory.


We run our business without a landline, relying on 3g internet. It has it's limitations - I would never rely on the cloud because you can't get a connection everywhere (we have dongles from 3 different providers in order to have a better chance of a connection). The connection bugs out - I use an FTP uploader and have an account with yousendit, because there's no way you'll get big files to go anywhere otherwise. The more people use 3g the shitter it gets (bandwidth). I've been a user of 3g since it came out and as soon as everyone started getting iphones it got flakey. The service providers haven't yet caught up with the number of users (IMO)

ETA I still think this tablet will absolutely cane everyone else who isn't Apple. I bet RIM are shitting themselves. I don't think the size is a problem - I do feel like a bit of a tit/flash get when using my giant tablet on public transport. This is a bit more manageable.


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## editor (Oct 1, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> ETA I still think this tablet will absolutely cane everyone else who isn't Apple. I bet RIM are shitting themselves. I don't think the size is a problem - I do feel like a bit of a tit/flash get when using my giant tablet on public transport. This is a bit more manageable.


Yep. I think a 7" tablet is going to be the perfect size for a lot of people.


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## pinkmonkey (Oct 1, 2011)

lobster said:


> I have somewhat wondered myself why Apple,Microsoft and others are doing extremely well in recession.



There are still rich people around and the market has really polarised between the haves and have-nots- luxury fashion as a sector is doing really well ATM.  It's the middle market high street that is suffering.


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## Kid_Eternity (Oct 1, 2011)

pinkmonkey said:


> We run our business without a landline, relying on 3g internet. It has it's limitations - I would never rely on the cloud because you can't get a connection everywhere (we have dongles from 3 different providers in order to have a better chance of a connection). The connection bugs out - I use an FTP uploader and have an account with yousendit, because there's no way you'll get big files to go anywhere otherwise. The more people use 3g the shitter it gets (bandwidth). I've been a user of 3g since it came out and as soon as everyone started getting iphones it got flakey. The service providers haven't yet caught up with the number of users (IMO)
> 
> ETA I still think this tablet will absolutely cane everyone else who isn't Apple. I bet RIM are shitting themselves. I don't think the size is a problem - I do feel like a bit of a tit/flash get when using my giant tablet on public transport. This is a bit more manageable.



Agreed this is the fight for number 2 in the tablet space. Google must also be a bit worried about the rumors of Amazon wanting to buy webOS too, if they make a huge success of their entry into the market then switch OS that's a big blow.


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 3, 2011)

What still doesn't seem entirely clear to me is whether you will just be able to run this device like any other android tablet, customizing it with the same apps you'd use on your phone - or if it's going to be a Amazon-ified version with only apps they've approved you to download. Does anyone know?


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## editor (Oct 3, 2011)

skyscraper101 said:


> What still doesn't seem entirely clear to me is whether you will just be able to run this device like any other android tablet, customizing it with the same apps you'd use on your phone - or if it's going to be a Amazon-ified version with only apps they've approved you to download. Does anyone know?


You'll be able to download apps from Amazon's app store.


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 3, 2011)

editor said:


> You'll be able to download apps from Amazon's app store.



But does that mean I can't get the same stuff that's available from the android marketplace? Or will I just have to hope that Amazon carry it too?


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## magneze (Oct 3, 2011)

skyscraper101 said:


> But does that mean I can't get the same stuff that's available from the android marketplace? Or will I just have to hope that Amazon carry it too?


Yep, pretty much. It's up to the app developer whether they put it on Amazon too.

Also, Amazon have a vetting process which the normal Marketplace does not.


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## skyscraper101 (Oct 3, 2011)

Ugh... that's a bit of a downer.


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## cliche guevara (Oct 3, 2011)

Didn't Amazon's CEO basically give the okay to people rooting it?


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## editor (Oct 3, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> Didn't Amazon's CEO basically give the okay to people rooting it?


Yep. Well, at least he said that they had no intention of trying to make it difficult for people to do so.


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## cliche guevara (Oct 3, 2011)

Then there will be no problems getting the standard Android market. And even if you don't want to root, there are other ways of getting the .apk files, that's the beauty of Android - choice.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Oct 3, 2011)

damn

http://www.gottabemobile.com/2011/10/03/amazon-kindle-touch-wont-browse-web-over-3g/

aparently you can still used wikipedia over 3g though  so it  still works as a h2g2


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## editor (Oct 5, 2011)

Impressive, if true.


> Leaked Sales Numbers Suggest Amazon Kindle Fire On Track To Outsell iPad
> http://cultofandroid.com/257/leaked...ndle-fire-on-track-to-outsell-ipad-exclusive/


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## elbows (Oct 5, 2011)

It bloody well should outsell it given the price, and existing love of Kindle devices in certain key markets.


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## fen_boy (Oct 7, 2011)

Are the touch or fire being released in the UK?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 7, 2011)

elbows said:


> It bloody well should outsell it given the price, and existing love of Kindle devices in certain key markets.



Thing is there is loads of choice between tablets, but very few in the ereader market.


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## editor (Nov 14, 2011)

The Telegraph is running this downbeat article about early reviews:


> *Amazon Kindle Fire gets mixed reviews*
> Amazon's new tablet is aiming to take on the iPad, but critics in America have been largely underwhelmed.


But then goes on to quote snippets of largely very positive reviews:


> Fortune
> The Kindle Fire isn’t a revolutionary device, but it is Amazon’s most important product ever. [It] takes Amazon’s wildly popular services and presents them in a solid piece of hardware with a responsive, easy-to-understand interface that works. It doesn’t have the iPad’s extra layer of polish and sheen, but with the Amazon brand, a wide ecosystem of services at its disposal, and that $199 price point, it doesn’t really need it. In that sense, Apple’s tablet just met its first real competitor.
> 
> Gizmodo
> ...


Weird.


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## ChrisFilter (Nov 14, 2011)

If I was to buy one off ebay from the US, would it work with a UK Amazon account, does anyone know?


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## grit (Nov 15, 2011)

Any idea when we can expect a UK release? I was planning on this being ms grit's Christmas present.


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## Kid_Eternity (Nov 15, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> If I was to buy one off ebay from the US, would it work with a UK Amazon account, does anyone know?



Not sure. I know a mate bought a US Kindle 3 (what's now called the Kindle Keyboard) in the states and it worked fine over here with a UK account.


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## editor (Nov 15, 2011)

grit said:


> Any idea when we can expect a UK release? I was planning on this being ms grit's Christmas present.


No chance at all of it coming to the UK before Christmas, I reckon. The problem is that all the content deals that are in place in the US don't exist here - and it's those deals that make the Fire such a compelling buy.


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## grit (Nov 15, 2011)

editor said:


> No chance at all of it coming to the UK before Christmas, I reckon. The problem is that all the content deals that are in place in the US don't exist here - and it's those deals that make the Fire such a compelling buy.



Fuck, back to the drawing board


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## editor (Nov 15, 2011)

It's all battery!
http://liliputing.com/2011/11/amazon-kindle-fire-dissected-its-mostly-battery.html


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## magneze (Nov 15, 2011)

editor said:


> No chance at all of it coming to the UK before Christmas, I reckon. The problem is that all the content deals that are in place in the US don't exist here - and it's those deals that make the Fire such a compelling buy.


Not to mention the potential EU privacy issues with the Silk browser.


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## editor (Nov 19, 2011)

It's apparently shifting like shit off a shovel in the US.
So when we can have it please Amazon?


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## editor (Dec 7, 2011)

It's rumoured to be coming to the UK in Jan.
http://www.knowyourmobile.com/blog/1158519/exclusive_amazon_kindle_fire_coming_to_uk_in_january.html


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## ChrisFilter (Dec 7, 2011)

Alas they're too late for my custom. I got my Mrs an iPad 2 for Xmas instead.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 7, 2011)

I bet she'll thank you for it more anyhow.


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## ChrisFilter (Dec 7, 2011)

Yeah, more than likely


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 22, 2012)

Looks like Amazon are kicking Samsung's ass with the Kindle Fire...


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## baldrick (Feb 22, 2012)

they need to make it available in the UK!


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## editor (Feb 22, 2012)

Shame that graph doesn't give any context by providing the amount of tablets sold overall.


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## mrs quoad (Feb 23, 2012)

editor said:


> Shame that graph doesn't give any context by providing the amount of tablets sold overall.


This is one of the many reasons that pie charts are, basically, the Satan's arsehole of data representation.


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