# Emotional labour, emotional dissonance at work in customer service jobs



## J Ed (Jan 6, 2015)

Came across this article, I thought that all of it was worthwhile but this particular bit stuck out to me



> Stress, often the result of this pressure to ensure that quantitative objectives are reached, reduces the ability of workers to achieve the qualitative objectives, which include what Taylor and Bain describe as the demand to “smile down the phone.”27 In a famous account of flight attendants, who are expected to maintain a perpetual smile, Arlie Hochschild defines emotional labor as “requiring one to induce or suppress feeling in order to sustain the outward countenance that produces the proper state of mind in others.”28 The method by which this can be achieved over the phone rather than in person is different. Taylor and Bain argue that the “appropriate telephone manners and behaviours” alongside the previously mentioned need to “smile down the phone” can be included within Hochschild’s definition of “outward countenance.”29
> 
> The demand for call center workers to engage in emotional labor means that they are subjected to an additional set of pressures. Kerry Lewig and Maureen Dollard characterize the difference between the actual feelings of the call center worker and the emotional labor that they have to carry out as a kind of “emotional dissonance.” Modeled on cognitive dissonance, in which two contradictory ideas are held simultaneously, this concept refers to emotions and explains the feelings of guilt and stress callers experience as they try to convince customers to buy insurance while maintaining a positive, enthusiastic demeanor on the phone. Lewig and Dollard warn, in a paper about call centers in Australia, that “emotional dissonance may ultimately lead to lowered self-esteem, depression, cynicism, and alienation from work.”30



The expectation in call centre roles is that a person can, and must if they want to pay the rent, simultaneously personify a company while not taking a constant stream of abuse personally deferentially to tens and in some cases up to a hundred people a day. I am just watching a new 'team' starting at work, the horror of the first couple of days for them is turning to numb depression, and it has to otherwise you simply cannot do the job.


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## Cribynkle (Jan 6, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Came across this article, I thought that all of it was worthwhile but this particular bit stuck out to me
> 
> 
> 
> The expectation in call centre roles is that a person can, and must if they want to pay the rent, simultaneously personify a company while not taking a constant stream of abuse personally deferentially to tens and in some cases up to a hundred people a day. I am just watching a new 'team' starting at work, the horror of the first couple of days for them is turning to numb depression, and it has to otherwise you simply cannot do the job.


After I first got a job on a helpdesk, straight out of uni so quite young and unsure of myself, I started to feel apologetic towards everyone all the time. Spending 8 hours a day with a constant stream of frustrated people having a go at me but not being able to answer them back and having to be perfectly pleasant to them was not great for my self esteem


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## xslavearcx (Jan 6, 2015)

After 3 weeks off due to sleep apnea induced exhAstion - todAy is my first day back on the phones..... Yay! (Not)


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## butchersapron (Jan 6, 2015)

It's an interesting piece, but i'm going to be pedantic here - that is not a workers inquiry, it's pretty distant from a workers inquiry. It's an individuals account of a short time at one place of work. This project i was involved in years ago Hotlines - call centre | inquiry | communism is a workers inquiry - well worth revisiting.


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## xslavearcx (Jan 6, 2015)

Cheers for that BA


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## J Ed (Jan 6, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> It's an interesting piece, but i'm going to be pedantic here - that is not a workers inquiry, it's pretty distant from a workers inquiry. It's an individuals account of a short time at one place of work. This project i was involved in years ago Hotlines - call centre | inquiry | communism is a workers inquiry - well worth revisiting.



Read that a few months ago, very interesting. Had no idea that you were involved! What amazes me is how universal experiences of these places are, even across decades and geography and language as in this case.


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## J Ed (Jan 6, 2015)

xslavearcx said:


> After 3 weeks off due to sleep apnea induced exhAstion - todAy is my first day back on the phones..... Yay! (Not)



Sorry to hear that  what do you do on the phones?


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## killer b (Jan 6, 2015)

Call centre work is fucking rank – I used to work in telephone debt collection years ago, and it really fucks your head. I wasn’t particularly aware of it at the time, but it turned me into (at work at least) a bully who was unable to see the people on the other end of the phone as fully human. I don’t suppose it would have been possible to carry on in the job had it not done.

Glad I don’t do _that_ anymore… it’s useful to remember how easy it is to dehumanise other people for the sake of my own mental comfort though.


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## xslavearcx (Jan 6, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Sorry to hear that  what do you do on the phones?



i work for an outsourced callcentre on a sky tv outbound retentions campaign - basiclly if you cancel your sky account you'll get a call from us trying to give you discounts and shit to stay. Piss poor flexable contracts, heavy monitoring of calls by managers to ensure quality and compliance, monitoring of all aspects of time usage such as toilet breaks and what not. Things like having a conversation with co-workers is next to impossible because of incessant calls to annoyed customers. internet is all blocked up (which was a good diversion for a bit before they got wind of it being fun), but suprisingly this site isnt blocked... Ive had a fair few jobs i hated but this one tops it.



killer b said:


> Call centre work is fucking rank – I used to work in telephone debt collection years ago, and it really fucks your head. I wasn’t particularly aware of it at the time, but it turned me into (at work at least) a bully who was unable to see the people on the other end of the phone as fully human. I don’t suppose it would have been possible to carry on in the job had it not done.
> 
> Glad I don’t do _that_ anymore… it’s useful to remember how easy it is to dehumanise other people for the sake of my own mental comfort though.



Aye definately - once you get to the point of giving the fingers to the computer screen as each call comes up then you know you have gone down pretty far the dehumanisation path...


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## Tankus (Jan 6, 2015)

Its just acting


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## J Ed (Jan 6, 2015)

Tankus said:


> Its just acting



Sort of, except most 'acting' requires you to play a very different character for limited periods of time. Emotional labour, or performing empathy, requires you to behave as if you are a slight variation on yourself but a variation which is utterly convinced of the virtues of an employer regardless of an often changing party line and the inherent superiority of the customer. You are expected to demonstrate your belief in the latter by repeatedly and continually reaffirming your own lack of self worth in the face of the insights of the customer, even when this conflicts with the unquestionable party line of your employer. Now do this 100 times a day, five times a week. It's not exactly amdram, is it?


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## BandWagon (Jan 6, 2015)

I must say that as a user of call centres, but having never worked in one, I've had reasonable service mostly. Maybe that's because I'm reasonable, even polite. It can be frustrating, fighting your way through the automated menu, then queuing for what can be a while, then all the ID stuff, so by the time the customer gets there they may be irritated. Most of the people I've spoken to have been helpful, though.


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## J Ed (Jan 6, 2015)

I cannot count the number of times people on the phones have half seriously talked about suicide, sometimes I find myself mouthing to myself 'I want to kill myself' in between calls without even noticing it. "What's the least serious injury that I could inflict on myself that would get me off the phones?" is a common one.


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## J Ed (Jan 6, 2015)

Today a supervisor reprimanded me because a customer said "I must be boring you" (to which I lied "of course not, not at all", I find toffs making private medical insurance claims to skip the queue for the NHS absolutely riveting), I hadn't even said anything, I was just listening to her. Apparently not saying "oh, okay, hmm, okay!" over and over to demonstrate active listening is unacceptable. The more I do this work the more I am convinced that it cannot really be humanised and that all call centres should just burn down.


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## weepiper (Jan 6, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I cannot count the number of times people on the phones have half seriously talked about suicide, sometimes I find myself mouthing to myself 'I want to kill myself' in between calls without even noticing it. "What's the least serious injury that I could inflict on myself that would get me off the phones?" is a common one.


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## Tankus (Jan 6, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Sort of, except most 'acting' requires you to play a very different character for limited periods of time. Emotional labour, or performing empathy, requires you to behave as if you are a slight variation on yourself but a variation which is utterly convinced of the virtues of an employer regardless of an often changing party line and the inherent superiority of the customer. You are expected to demonstrate your belief in the latter by repeatedly and continually reaffirming your own lack of self worth in the face of the insights of the customer, even when this conflicts with the unquestionable party line of your employer. Now do this 100 times a day, five times a week. It's not exactly amdram, is it?


50 hrs a week at the mo ...on outbound ....on an auto dialer that's relentless


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## J Ed (Jan 7, 2015)

Tankus said:


> 50 hrs a week at the mo ...on outbound ....on an auto dialer that's relentless



Sorry


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## Tankus (Jan 7, 2015)

Its a job ....its better than JSA and its hoops you have to jump  ...... I max out my overtime from choice to build a cash reserve.
Don't disagree with anything posted earlier...though 

I go to work with a blank mind ...and I leave everything at the door when I leave .....I act like a conditioned work bot......but its not who I am.  ...heh ..maybe I've perfected dissonance......dunno.....but the very nature of the job is by remote...

Not read butchers link yet .....maybe later....when I have time ...heh!


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## J Ed (Jan 7, 2015)

Yes my last call centre job in a bank allowed me to be more robotic. Name, account number, credit card, date of birth and account balance over and over it was mindless but I could just do it without thinking or engaging - half the people at the call centre would play online games or fill in crosswords or whatever while doing it. More calls and a lot more verbal abuse than my current job but if someone started personally blaming you for something that wasn't your fault and you could not solve then you could just say "ok" now and again while not listening while they pointlessly vented.

Now in the current job if someone whines about the company, the underwriting they have chosen or something about the service in a private hospital I have to hold their hand through all their concerns and try to convince them of how great their insurance policy is. I still have no idea how to respond when some rich cunt asks me, "do you think my £3000 premiums on this policy are reasonable given your service at Aviva?" clearly I do not think it is reasonable, that's almost three times my monthly salary for a service that is completely unnecessary and which actually undermines healthcare for the majority of the population. Even though I am taking about a quarter of the calls I did at the last job I find this one a lot more exhausting just because of the amount of empathy I have to perform on behalf of people I despise.


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## Cloo (Jan 8, 2015)

There's no way I could do call centre stuff, it would destroy me. I hate people being shitty to cal lcentre staff... I just imagine how I'd feel in their place and it's not like shit is their fault.


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## killer b (Jan 8, 2015)

It probably wouldn't destroy to tbf. You'd just be more bored and unhappy is all.


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## JTG (Jan 8, 2015)

Years and years of experience in it. To be fair, the really shitty people are few ime but they have the capacity to fuck up your entire day and make you pass on the shittyness to other callers. 

If I ever have to call in to a call centre, I make a special effort to be nice because I know exactly how it is to do their jobs.

I also tend to do my nut on here whenever we end up having the call centre workers discussion  Always some tit who takes pleasure in boasting about how awful they were to some poor worker who's just trying to put food on the table


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## Voley (Jan 8, 2015)

JTG said:


> To be fair, the really shitty people are few ime but they have the capacity to fuck up your entire day and make you pass on the shittyness to other callers.


Yeah that's my experience of it, too. I had a call yesterday that took me most of the afternoon to get over. Did my best to be nice to the rest of the people I spoke to but I found others getting tetchy with me and I'm sure it was due to my tone of voice. When someone's gone right off on one at you for the most ridiculous reason it's difficult to just let it wash over you.

I'm lucky though - I'm not ringing out to people that don't want to talk to me and I'm not selling anything. I doubt I could do that.


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## JTG (Jan 8, 2015)

Voley said:


> Yeah that's my experience of it, too. I had a call yesterday that took me most of the afternoon to get over. Did my best to be nice to the rest of the people I spoke to but I found others getting tetchy with me and I'm sure it was due to my tone of voice. When someone's gone right off on one at you for the most ridiculous reason it's difficult to just let it wash over you.
> 
> I'm lucky though - I'm not ringing out to people that don't want to talk to me and I'm not selling anything. I doubt I could do that.


Yeah, I've had days when I couldn't understand why people were being shitty with me and then realised it was probably the way I was saying stuff, unintentionally passing my mood on to others.


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## Jay Park (Jan 12, 2015)

Tankus said:


> 50 hrs a week at the mo ...on outbound ....on an auto dialer that's relentless



that auto dialer sounds rough


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## tommers (Jan 12, 2015)

I did outgoing cold calls once. Lasted about two weeks before I told them I couldn't hack it.  

I suppose this job is a call centre but it's dressed up well. I've had one guy shouting at me in a year and a half and he was pretty hilarious. Told me he would rather "cut my own dick off" than speak to us any more. Turned out it wasn't me he should have been speaking to anyway. . Management would never monitor calls or pull you up for not doing active listening. I really don't understand ones who think that's a good idea. 

I have worked in ones like that in the past though and it was fucking miserable.


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## tommers (Jan 12, 2015)

Tankus said:


> 50 hrs a week at the mo ...on outbound ....on an auto dialer that's relentless



How does that work?


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## el-ahrairah (Jan 12, 2015)

i lasted three months in a call centre before quitting.  i got to the point where i'd rather be unemployed.  it did my head and i found myself being unempathic with people who deserved it, because of the relentlessness of the work and the amount of cunts i had to speak to daily.  it was a miserable, miserable, place.


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## el-ahrairah (Jan 12, 2015)

tommers said:


> How does that work?



if it's anything like where i worked, the next call drops into your headset when the last one finishes.  the machine decides who you speak to, not you.  you either can't stop it happening, or your use of the pause button is monitored.  where i was, if you spent any time doing paperwork you got bollocked because you were supposed to be able to do the work whilst taking to the client.  fucking horseshit and naturally resulted in lots of muddled paperwork, incorrect charges, things going wrong etc.  some staff just didn't do anything, they said they did to the caller and didn't do it because it was impossible to do.  nonsense.


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## tufty79 (Jan 12, 2015)

tommers said:


> How does that work?


Sit with your headset on, and get fed calls going out. Unless you go into wrapup/whatever, you'll get put onto the next outgoing call as soon as the previous one ends. You know when you get a call from a company that hangs up when you answer? That's usually an autodialler thing - it'll ring multiple numbers but drop the call if there's not enough agents to pass it on to (or similar - it's been a while since i suffered that particular hell)


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## tommers (Jan 12, 2015)

What an utterly ridiculous way to run a business.


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## el-ahrairah (Jan 12, 2015)

fucking amen.


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## JTG (Jan 12, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> if it's anything like where i worked, the next call drops into your headset when the last one finishes.  the machine decides who you speak to, not you.  you either can't stop it happening, or your use of the pause button is monitored.  where i was, if you spent any time doing paperwork you got bollocked because you were supposed to be able to do the work whilst taking to the client.  fucking horseshit and naturally resulted in lots of muddled paperwork, incorrect charges, things going wrong etc.  some staff just didn't do anything, they said they did to the caller and didn't do it because it was impossible to do.  nonsense.


Yep. Hey everyone - you know how you keep phoning BigCuntsCorp about the mistakes they make and they keep getting made? See the above


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## Tankus (Jan 12, 2015)

Yep ...thats about it


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## quiet guy (Jan 12, 2015)

I had a stint of 18months on a section of the PO helpdesk dealing with calls from the office staff but if we got any crap from the callers because they didn't like or agree with what we were telling them then we could end the call and inform the caller that there attitude and manner would be reported. We were still monitored on the number of calls dealt with and had to log all activities, admin, call handling, breaks, toilet breaks etc. via a specific code on the phone handset. I couldn't wait to move on from that job.


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## Onket (Jan 13, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> if it's anything like where i worked, the next call drops into your headset when the last one finishes.  the machine decides who you speak to, not you.  you either can't stop it happening, or your use of the pause button is monitored.  where i was, if you spent any time doing paperwork you got bollocked because you were supposed to be able to do the work whilst taking to the client.  fucking horseshit and naturally resulted in lots of muddled paperwork, incorrect charges, things going wrong etc.  some staff just didn't do anything, they said they did to the caller and didn't do it because it was impossible to do.  nonsense.


I had similar in a previous job that wasn't an auto-dialler but if calls were waiting they'd drop straight in as soon as the previous call was finished. I ended up keeping people waiting and saying things like "Let me just make a note of that on the system....." or "Let me just check something while you're on the line...." which sometimes ended up with callers getting pissed off for being kept on the line and me getting bollocked for my call length being too long! Can't win!


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## J Ed (Jan 13, 2015)

Out of curiousity, peeps who work/have worked in call centres - how would you rate the work compared to other jobs that you have had? I'm not sure whether it's rose tinted glasses but I found restaurant work much more tolerable and general retail even better.


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## tufty79 (Jan 13, 2015)

I've done retail, waitressing and admin/PA stuff. Promised myself i will never ever do call centres again.


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## killer b (Jan 13, 2015)

tommers said:


> What an utterly ridiculous way to run a business.


Not at all, its a very efficient way to run a business.


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## J Ed (Jan 13, 2015)

killer b said:


> Not at all, its a very efficient way to run a business.



Well, profitable, yeah. Ridiculous for non share holders tho!


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## killer b (Jan 13, 2015)

They don't matter.


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## Looby (Jan 13, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Out of curiousity, peeps who work/have worked in call centres - how would you rate the work compared to other jobs that you have had? I'm not sure whether it's rose tinted glasses but I found restaurant work much more tolerable and general retail even better.



I've worked in out/inbound sales and various customer service roles in call centres. Shit, horrible work but the best teamwork and atmosphere I've worked in too. Sales was soul destroying as I was crap at it but fun at times too. I ended up on the top performing team in my office. They were so great, they didn't mind that much that I was so shit as we aced all targets anyway. I did cry every day though. Hmmm
My two years in a civil service contact centre were great in many ways. Great social life, loads of laughs and a universal hatred of management does wonders for bonding. [emoji41]


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## Tankus (Jan 13, 2015)

Its preferable to JSA .....and that's it !


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## cesare (Jan 13, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Out of curiousity, peeps who work/have worked in call centres - how would you rate the work compared to other jobs that you have had? I'm not sure whether it's rose tinted glasses but I found restaurant work much more tolerable and general retail even better.


I'd say it was probably the most soul destroying work that I've worked in.


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## xenon (Jan 13, 2015)

I have only worked in one call centre. Pretty much as others have described. Wrap, some staff lying to customers claiming they have done X or Y when you could see they hadn't even touched their file, due to pressure to meet targets. This happened more in the less unionised office. Go figure. Bullshit management changing things for the sake of it AKA Some twonk  trying to make a name for themselves. Because of the nature of the business we got quite a phew angry callers. Complaints. If they were ranting, I would just take my headset off and put it on the desk, whilst they continue for two minutes not hearing what they've said. It was better than telling them to shut the fuck-up. Though sometimes they had a point. And most callers would Generally be fine.

All that said, a good team leader makes a very big difference. The second one I had I got on with fine. He never got on mycase was generally supportive. it wasn't a terrible place to work. And on balance, I preferred it to doing audio typing, which I done before that.


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## dervish (Jan 14, 2015)

When I worked in inbound tech support I loved the angry customers. People would pass them onto me all the time, I could usually find a decent resolution as well. I would just wait until they had run out of steam and then see what could be done to help them. It got to the point where managers were passing angry customers to me. Then I got promoted off the phones to level 3 and had to deal with "vips". That was depressing, usually they didn't actually have a problem that could be solved, at least not by me and they just ranted, you had to be ultra polite as well as anything they could complain about later they would, extensively.


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## J Ed (Jan 14, 2015)

I much preferred dealing with people calling up to complain about bank charges, because they typically their complaints were totally legitimate (bank charges are ridiculous, £25 charge for a direct debit you have no control over?!) and I didn't have to feign empathy. On the other hand, if you have a rich cunt calling up demanding that you justify why the insurance company you work for doesn't cover for X operation at X private hospital there is absolutely nothing you can actually say to placate them if they have decided that they don't want a solution and just want to victimise you.


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## el-ahrairah (Jan 14, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Out of curiousity, peeps who work/have worked in call centres - how would you rate the work compared to other jobs that you have had? I'm not sure whether it's rose tinted glasses but I found restaurant work much more tolerable and general retail even better.



well, i've tolerated some shit jobs.  i've been a hotel cleaner, a kitchen porter, and done all sorts of low end admin, and call centre work was the worst.  it was so bad that i left without having anything definite to go to and no savings but after three months i'd rather take a risk than stay.


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## J Ed (Jan 16, 2015)

http://www.metamute.org/editorial/articles/burn-out-global-call-centre


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## weltweit (Jan 17, 2015)

In my last role I did a lot of cold calling, qualifying people before selling to them. I worked on my own, (have never worked in a call centre) and make my own arrangements as to when I call, how many calls I make a day and the like. I think because of that freedom I don't have a problem with it.


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## tommers (Jan 17, 2015)

killer b said:


> Not at all, its a very efficient way to run a business.


Is it?  What's staff turnover like in these places?  How's morale doing?  

Judging from this thread, very high and non-existent. 

The whole approach is coming from "we don't trust you to do your job"  - the constant monitoring,  the insistence on following set questions and then,  finally,  the removal of any control and flexibility over your working day.  Not sure I'd want somebody working under those conditions to be the public face of my company. 

Much better,  for me,  to have a motivated workforce who believe in your aims working towards agreed targets.  People treated like adults.  Happy staff means happy customers means happy business.


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## killer b (Jan 17, 2015)

Staff turnover & morale are not important though - the only thing that matters is profit.

All that stuff is a good idea if you care about people. They don't.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 17, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I cannot count the number of times people on the phones have half seriously talked about suicide, sometimes I find myself mouthing to myself 'I want to kill myself' in between calls without even noticing it. "What's the least serious injury that I could inflict on myself that would get me off the phones?" is a common one.


you want a blighty wound


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## Onket (Jan 17, 2015)

killer b said:


> Staff turnover & morale are not important though - the only thing that matters is profit.
> 
> All that stuff is a good idea if you care about people. They don't.


Exactly.


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## Blagsta (Jan 17, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Well, profitable, yeah. Ridiculous for non share holders tho!



Although over the years I've had at least a grand out of NPower for all their fuck ups. Seems inefficient to me.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 17, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Out of curiousity, peeps who work/have worked in call centres - how would you rate the work compared to other jobs that you have had? I'm not sure whether it's rose tinted glasses but I found restaurant work much more tolerable and general retail even better.


I'd rather do industrial and site cleaning, moneys around the same but the filth is just inert and it can be oddly zen in a wax-on-wax-off way


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## tommers (Jan 17, 2015)

killer b said:


> Staff turnover & morale are not important though - the only thing that matters is profit.
> 
> All that stuff is a good idea if you care about people. They don't.


Sure. I'm saying that's a ridiculous way to run a business.  Your staff directly impact your business and your profit.  How can they not?  

Whats the stat about the cost of finding, appointing and training new staff? Can't remember the exact figure but something like 3 x salary.  It costs a shitload to constantly replace staff who have burned out and had enough. If I call you and speak to somebody who knows nothing about their job and doesn't care then I don't really want to call back and I go somewhere else.

Lots of companies are making a real effort to look after their workforce (see google with their relaxation rooms and bean bags). That's not cos their nice people, its cos that's the best way to get the most out of their workforce.


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## killer b (Jan 17, 2015)

That figure about finding, appointing and training new staff is clearly bollocks. Maybe for high skilled jobs, but callcentre stuff? Nah.

The simple fact is, when you factor in all that stuff, it's more profitable to have an overworked, low skilled, low morale, high turnover workforce (at least in this particular sector - google is so far from being comparable they might as well be astronauts) than it is to have a happy, well rewarded one. That's why they do it, not because they hate people - people aren't relevant, profit is.


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## butchersapron (Jan 17, 2015)

tommers said:


> Much better,  for me,  to have a motivated workforce who believe in your aims working towards agreed targets.  People treated like adults.  Happy staff means happy customers means happy business.





killer b said:


> Staff turnover & morale are not important though - the only thing that matters is profit.
> 
> All that stuff is a good idea if you care about people. They don't.



Important to remember that both are management strategies (to maintain profits and workplace control of course) and both will be used when they think the conditions demand. Even within the same workplace - you often get the arm round the shoulder bollocks in the managers office then you're chucked back out to the same speed up and work-discipline.


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## killer b (Jan 17, 2015)

good point. They don't care either way.


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## killer b (Jan 17, 2015)

(well, they do care, but only about the money)


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## tommers (Jan 17, 2015)

killer b said:


> good point. They don't care either way.


Exactly.


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## killer b (Jan 17, 2015)

tommers said:


> Exactly.


exactly what? I was just agreeing with butch that treating staff well (when conditions demand) is simply a management strategy rather than caring about people. My other points still stand.


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## tommers (Jan 17, 2015)

killer b said:


> exactly what? I was just agreeing with butch that treating staff well (when conditions demand) is simply a management strategy rather than caring about people. My other points still stand.


I was agreeing with you.  I said that it was a management strategy already. 

I've given up on the "other points".


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## killer b (Jan 17, 2015)

why have you given up? I was all psyched for a day of this.


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## J Ed (Jan 17, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Important to remember that both are management strategies (to maintain profits and workplace control of course) and both will be used when they thing the conditions demand. Even within the same workplace - you often get the arm round the shoulder bollocks in the managers office then you're chucked back out to the same speed up and work-discipline.



A very good point, actually this can come from the same manager. Having looked at call centre websites aimed at call centre managers, the culture of blaming the employee for a customer abusing that employee is very obvious and if there is any fall out from that then obviously that fall out is due to that employee's personality defects. Fortunately though, these personality defects can be cured with psychobabble bullshit called 'neuro-linguistic programming'

http://callcentrehub.com/how-to-guides/2831-how-to-handle-pessimists-on-your-team



> Lastly, the article suggests coaching, in order to make use of positive affirmations, to overcome pessimistic thinking.


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## J Ed (Jan 17, 2015)

The bizarre thing is that a lot of call centre managers actually believe this stuff, that they can manipulate people by saying positive words over and over in order to implant suggestions in employees heads.  I think it's just an attempt to rationalise an irrational situation. I once overheard a manager smugly talk about how 'dangerous' he was when armed with 'neuro-linguistic programming'. For anyone interested in this psychobabble, this is a good summary.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 17, 2015)

I'd assumed NLP was the sole preserve of sex pests and deluded people with aspirations to ubermensch status


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## J Ed (Jan 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd assumed NLP was the sole preserve of sex pests and deluded people with aspirations to ubermensch status



Nah, in the two call centres I have worked in both explicitly and proudly used it as part of their 'training' programmes. Aviva gives people working in its call centre a list of 100 positive words on a sheet of paper and suggests that they read it over and over before going to bed, with the suggestion that this makes you a more positive person.


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## DotCommunist (Jan 17, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Nah, in the two call centres I have worked in both explicitly and proudly used it as part of their 'training' programmes. Aviva gives people working in its call centre a list of 100 positive words on a sheet of paper and suggests that they read it over and over before going to bed, with the suggestion that this makes you a more positive person.


'ending is better than mending, more stitches is less riches'

etc


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## DotCommunist (Jan 17, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Nah, in the two call centres I have worked in both explicitly and proudly used it as part of their 'training' programmes. Aviva gives people working in its call centre a list of 100 positive words on a sheet of paper and suggests that they read it over and over before going to bed, with the suggestion that this makes you a more positive person.


also reminds me of the bullshit psychometric thing, for use by nobheads when interviewing people


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## J Ed (Jan 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> also reminds me of the bullshit psychometric thing, for use by nobheads when interviewing people



I did a personality test for another call centre job last night where you are supposed to choose the 'best' and 'least' worst answer in a given situation. The scenario was basically that management have changed your hours at short term notice and you have been told about it in an informal meeting. The obvious 'worst' answer was more or less "organise collectively with the rest of your team to put forward a united front to keep your old hours" the 'best' answer was more or less shut up and be grateful that you have a job.


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## Tankus (Jan 17, 2015)

In the group I started with ...after 3 months inc. 2 weeks training, staff attrition must be close to 40% with the majority culled in the first 6 weeks .....but its tailing off

Orwell would be astounded  at the level of personal monitoring .

Quite amazed myself by the number of people who have degrees in their mid /late 20's and the educational level and ability of the under 25's too ...

A noticable age gap between the ages of 30 and 50 in workers....


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## xenon (Jan 17, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd assumed NLP was the sole preserve of sex pests and deluded people with aspirations to ubermensch status


Probably quite an overlap with middle management types.


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## xenon (Jan 17, 2015)

Of course it's all about profit. Some call centres are better to work at than others. Generally the ones where you have a bit more responsibility. certainly whilst applying for jobs last year, there were some that sounded okay and others
You knew definitely wanted to avoid. through reputation as well as the job advert description. The The Call Centre work can also be a bit of a merry-go-round. I have mates in Bristol who have worked in several over the years.


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## J Ed (Jan 19, 2015)

Applied to a lot of places since leaving the last shitty call centre job, despite a good amount of restaurant experience the only call backs I am getting is from call centres and I will probably have to take one of those jobs. There is no escape. Hopefully at least whatever the next call centre is the management will be less shit than the last two, particularly the last one...


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## xenon (Jan 19, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Applied to a lot of places since leaving the last shitty call centre job, despite a good amount of restaurant experience the only call backs I am getting is from call centres and I will probably have to take one of those jobs. There is no escape. Hopefully at least whatever the next call centre is the management will be less shit than the last two, particularly the last one...


Good luck fella. Hope you get something more rewarding.


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## Kaka Tim (Jan 19, 2015)

Worked in call centre for four months in 1997 - customer services for cellnet. I walked out cos i just couldn't face going into work anymore. utterly alienating. No break from the phones during the shift other the 30 minute lunch break, constant hassle from the managers about taking too long on calls (i.e. by occasionally being a bit chatty/freindly with callers) and not hitting call targets, getting jumped on every time you turn your phone off -(like taking a minute after a particularly stressful call or too many toilet breaks) and being completely unable to talk to your co-workers - because everyone is on the phones all the time. 

Just horrible.


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## J Ed (Jan 23, 2015)

How are you getting on Tankus?


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## Tankus (Jan 23, 2015)

Not gone postal yet.....but I find myself strangely drawn to gun vids on youtube


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## 8115 (Jan 23, 2015)

The thing that destroys me about customer service work is the dynamic that, at the end of the day, the people you are serving are buying a small amount of you, or at least of your time.

If someone came up to me in the street and said, "I'll give you 30p to go and get something from over there for me", I'd tell them to stick it up their arse.  At work, that basically happens about 20 times an hour, more if it's busy.  You basically get paid so that people can tell you what to do, and I hate people telling me what to do.


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## 8115 (Jan 23, 2015)

And you're supposed to smile while you do it! That is just weird, to me.


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## J Ed (Jan 23, 2015)

Tankus said:


> Not gone postal yet.....but I find myself strangely drawn to gun vids on youtube


 
 I know the feeling. Have you got any exit strategies? Thinking about that is what helped to keep me (mostly) sane.


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## 8115 (Jan 23, 2015)

Or like, if someone said, I want you to sort me out some health insurance (or whatever), you'd say, yeah, sure, I'll do it for £25.  Something somewhere doesn't add up.


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## Tankus (Jan 23, 2015)

I'm a temp.....JSA beckons as soon as the button is pressed ..rapid exit is a given  .

There are some remarkably likeable people working there ....think I've made friends that will outlast the job....


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## Tankus (Jan 28, 2015)

Hmmm....I have been found not up to the grade to perform for a minimum wage job and its thank you and goodbye .....educational to say the least .....I'm not sure if I should be perturbed or not ......!

At least my dissonance has become fine tuned .....


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## J Ed (Jan 28, 2015)

Tankus said:


> Hmmm....I have been found not up to the grade to perform for a minimum wage job and its thank you and goodbye .....educational to say the least .....I'm not sure if I should be perturbed or not ......!
> 
> At least my dissonance has become fine tuned .....



Really sorry to hear that Tankus, I am sure it isn't you, any outbound call centre that is actually paying minimum wage is obviously a reasonably dodgy operation. Being unemployed is horrible but at the very least you will quickly find yourself shocked by how much happier you feel being off the phones, even with the despondency of being unemployed factored in.

Were you employed through a temp agency? Have you asked them if they have anything else?


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## sheetalmehak (Feb 23, 2015)

Although customer service jobs are typically entry-level positions, they can lead to more advanced positions within an organization.


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## killer b (Feb 23, 2015)

sure.


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## DotCommunist (Feb 23, 2015)

hey, if you work hard enough you too can be team leader and award fagbreaks based on leads got within that hour! for 20p more an hour than the phone peons


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## killer b (Feb 23, 2015)

A quick check of the people I'm still in contact with who I used to work with on the phones suggests that two people are still working for the same company, now as team leaders! Otherwise, one has just been made redundant from a supervisory position in a similar company, and the remainder no longer work in the field.

Encouraging numbers.


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## J Ed (Feb 23, 2015)

sheetalmehak said:


> Although customer service jobs are typically entry-level positions, they can lead to more advanced positions within an organization.



What a weird fucking post, what is a parasitic cunt like you doing on a forum like this?

In any case, your vomit disguised as insight raises some interesting points. What opportunities does the average full time telephony-based punching bag have? Well, in outbound call centres DotCommunist is right, very small benefits but at least you get off the phones. For inbound call centres in my experience of three call centres of major UK financial institutions generally the supervisors are recruited from other businesses as 'expert people managers' which as far as I can tell means a willingness to fuck people over at the slightest provocation. It certainly does not require any competence with the processes followed or systems used by employees, at the Santander call centre I spent a good proportion of my time explaining very basic processes to my line 'manager'. She was very fucking good at telling you that you were about to be sacked for daring to be ill though. The manager of the Sheffield and Bradford Santander call centre does not know how to use excel, but he does know how to deliberately walk into working-class teenage girls fresh out of school and accuse them of rudeness because they didn't dodge out of the way.

In fact, just prior to leaving I saw the metrics by which interviewees are judged during interviews, one of them is 'realistic attitudes about prospects of call centre work' which explains why I was laughed at during my interview when I pretended that the prospects were good.


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## weepiper (Feb 23, 2015)

sheetalmehak said:


> Although customer service jobs are typically entry-level positions, they can lead to more advanced positions within an organization.


looooollllllllll.


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## dervish (Feb 24, 2015)

J Ed said:


> What a weird fucking post, what is a parasitic cunt like you doing on a forum like this?
> 
> In any case, your vomit disguised as insight raises some interesting points. What opportunities does the average full time telephony-based punching bag have? Well, in outbound call centres DotCommunist is right, very small benefits but at least you get off the phones. For inbound call centres in my experience of three call centres of major UK financial institutions generally the supervisors are recruited from other businesses as 'expert people managers' which as far as I can tell means a willingness to fuck people over at the slightest provocation. It certainly does not require any competence with the processes followed or systems used by employees, at the Santander call centre I spent a good proportion of my time explaining very basic processes to my line 'manager'. She was very fucking good at telling you that you were about to be sacked for daring to be ill though. The manager of the Sheffield and Bradford Santander call centre does not know how to use excel, but he does know how to deliberately walk into working-class teenage girls fresh out of school and accuse them of rudeness because they didn't dodge out of the way.
> 
> In fact, just prior to leaving I saw the metrics by which interviewees are judged during interviews, one of them is 'realistic attitudes about prospects of call centre work' which explains why I was laughed at during my interview when I pretended that the prospects were good.



What a lot of bile. Was that really necessary? 

My experience certainly wasn't like that. I started off as entry level tech support, ended up as the top escalation point for queries, I could have gone on to do many other roles in the company but our office was closed and I was made redundant, I took the money and ran. In that job I worked with many, many people that have started as entry level customer service and have gone on to work as team leaders, moved to hr, gone on to technical roles etc.

I think you've worked in some particularly bad call centres. Most of the call centres I have had experience in have not been great, but one thing they did have was a number of opportunities to get the hell out. 

You do have a point about the managers though, many of them are woefully unprepared or untrained to manage people and as such can make the frontline staffs lives hell. I learnt a lot about how not to manage people from watching call centre managers.


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## butchersapron (Oct 7, 2016)

J Ed said:


> Came across this article, I thought that all of it was worthwhile but this particular bit stuck out to me
> 
> 
> 
> The expectation in call centre roles is that a person can, and must if they want to pay the rent, simultaneously personify a company while not taking a constant stream of abuse personally deferentially to tens and in some cases up to a hundred people a day. I am just watching a new 'team' starting at work, the horror of the first couple of days for them is turning to numb depression, and it has to otherwise you simply cannot do the job.


He's now bumped this into a book being published by Pluto Press later next month - obv he had to finish his PhD at Goldmsith first and then get a job at the Cass Business School before finishing this bottom up non-workers inquiry.


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## Tankus (Oct 7, 2016)

Still preferable to JSA.....just....!


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## emanymton (Oct 7, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> He's now bumped this into a book being published by Pluto Press later next month - obv he had to finish his PhD at Goldmsith first and then get a job at the Cass Business School before finishing this bottom up non-workers inquiry.


Meet him once, struck me as a bit of an arrogant dick, and sounded bloody posh. Assuming it was the same guy that is.


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## butchersapron (Jun 26, 2017)

The story is now that he was _working undercover _ now he's a Dr_. _About as far as a workers inquiry as you could get. 6 months work 6 years career out of it.


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## AllEternalsHeck (Jul 2, 2017)

I've been doing outbound dialling (marketing for insulation, boilers etc) for coming up on five years now.  Very interesting thread to read through.  It's true that you adapt and become normalised to what you're doing quite quickly, but it never stops being an utterly shit way to spend 8-hours of your day.  I feel quite unwell after work every day: really frayed round the edges, stressed out, can't really get much joy out of normal activities like watching TV because my brain just feels all wired. 

I live for my days off.

The dialler is relentless.  The workplace itself is hot and busy and fucking LOUD.  Managers constantly on your case.  My favourite is when are supplied with bad data (tons of wrong numbers, ineligible customers etc) but still have to dial it because it isn't vetted first, just fed into the dialler... then managers start complaining when the appointment rate falls: 'you need to objection handle more'.  Mate, I've just tried to sell a boiler to a customer that WE installed a boiler for six months ago!  This is my fault!?  They listen to your calls and make sure you're objection handling i.e. not taking no for an answer.

As a natural introvert who hates loud places, hates speaking on the phone, isn't a great fan of conflict and people being annoyed at me... I really hate this fucking job.


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## J Ed (Jul 5, 2017)

AllEternalsHeck said:


> I've been doing outbound dialling (marketing for insulation, boilers etc) for coming up on five years now.  Very interesting thread to read through.  It's true that you adapt and become normalised to what you're doing quite quickly, but it never stops being an utterly shit way to spend 8-hours of your day.  I feel quite unwell after work every day: really frayed round the edges, stressed out, can't really get much joy out of normal activities like watching TV because my brain just feels all wired.
> 
> I live for my days off.
> 
> ...



I can identify with a lot of this. I am also an introvert and I think that it is particularly difficult work for people like us especially when it is probably too much back to back interaction for even the most extroverted people out there. 

I know exactly what you mean, the feeling constantly stressed out even when not at work was a really key feature of call centre work for me. I haven't had any non-call centre based job where I felt as stressed out while not actually at work as I did when working in a call centre, I found it really difficult to actually think about anything else at the time. I imagine that the worst aspects of the job I did, inbound, are compounded when doing outbound. You really do have my sympathy.


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## AllEternalsHeck (Jul 23, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I can identify with a lot of this. I am also an introvert and I think that it is particularly difficult work for people like us especially when it is probably too much back to back interaction for even the most extroverted people out there.
> 
> I know exactly what you mean, the feeling constantly stressed out even when not at work was a really key feature of call centre work for me. I haven't had any non-call centre based job where I felt as stressed out while not actually at work as I did when working in a call centre, I found it really difficult to actually think about anything else at the time. I imagine that the worst aspects of the job I did, inbound, are compounded when doing outbound. You really do have my sympathy.



I've been meaning to get back to your reply for ages, kept forgetting.

In some ways as an introvert I think I've done better than many extroverts.  You get tons of outgoing personalities coming out of training who can't last two weeks on the floor.  The boredom and repetitive frustration wears them down pretty quickly and they lose their cool.  I consider myself an outbound survivor, and do take some pride in that.  On the whole the environment suits extroverts better though.  I'm surrounded by very loud young guys who cope with the job by just having a riot everyday: tons of rowdy raucous banter.  They are good guys but I'd love a bit of peace and quiet sometimes.

I'm handing in my notice next week to go to graduate school.  Relief doesn't cover it.


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## J Ed (Aug 22, 2017)

butchersapron said:


> The story is now that he was _working undercover _ now he's a Dr_. _About as far as a workers inquiry as you could get. 6 months work 6 years career out of it.



Someone else has worked out that they can monetise this schtick https://www.amazon.co.uk/Hired-Months-Undercover-Low-Wage-Britain/dp/1786490145


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## The Pale King (Aug 24, 2017)

'taking on the country's worst jobs'

...the 'our intrepid reporter' angle is grim. Like he's doing a bushtucker trial or something.


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