# Lumix GX7 & 8 - Panasonic's high end rangefinder style



## FridgeMagnet (Sep 25, 2013)

Nothing about this here for some reason, but I really like the look of the GX7. (Well, not specifically the look, though it's nice enough.)

http://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/panasonic_lumix_dmc_gx7_review/ plus lots of other reviews if you google for GX7.

I get a lot of use out of my old chunky no nonsense GF2 but it has flaws - e.g. dynamic range not so amazing, high ISO not brilliant (bearable at 1600 but not great and 3200 is pretty horrid) and no viewfinder (plus you can't turn off the touchscreen! Which means I have loads of pictures of random shit.) And it's quite noisy.

The GX7 though has a much better sensor - OM-D level - plus an EVF which is supposed to be great. It has a stealth mode rather than the annoying "clack" of the GF2. It has IBIS which works on any lens, including old manual ones, plus focus peaking so you could actually use them properly. Articulated screen, eh, not so fussed about that but it's occasionally handy. Dead fast AF in low light.

Not cheap at £800-odd body only but it looks like a camera that would last a long time. It's getting to the point where bodies are good enough that I am prepared to spend money on the basis of using one for many years, and the m43 lens market is good and will carry on for a while. I like the rangefinder style a lot and seem to get the most use out of it with digital.


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## editor (Sep 25, 2013)

It's a great camera but you could get the OMD for that and that's the camera I'd prefer for its handling and ruggedness.


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## dweller (Sep 25, 2013)

Yeah GX7 does look good, but someone who had one said it is the kind of camera you'd look after carefully and not want to scratch rather than one that certain people allow to be bashed up and proudly display battle scars.
On the other hand the EM-5 has had several reports of the dials coming off and the eyesocket coming loose so 
 I'm not entirely convinced of its build quality. 

I have neither camera, so not really qualified to judge.
Though given the choice I'd probably go for the EM5 as I've had only Panasonics til now and want 
 to see if the grass is greener.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 25, 2013)

The e-m5 is about the same price now, but it does lack focus peaking and has an EVF with half the resolution. The GX7 is not waterproof but I have to say that I've never really cared about that in practice, and my lenses aren't waterproof anyway. IQ is very similar between them - the GX7 has a lower min ISO and is apparently slightly better at extremely high ISO but neither of those really matter IMO. (Similarly I don't care about video performance.)

It does also have wifi for remote control and picture transfer, which is potentially useful. And some other stuff. It's a year and a half newer after all (eternity in camera years).

I am going to try to find an actual camera shop with one to have a go. I did have a go with the E-M5 though not extensively. I do generally prefer cameras built like the GX7 tbh, not that they're vastly different.


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## dweller (Sep 25, 2013)

The other thing the GX7 has got is the 1/8000 second shutter.
I do hit the 1/4000 limit when I'm using fast primes in daylight and aiming for shallow DOF.
Don't want to be fishing around for ND filters.
That is another plus for the newer models coming out.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 25, 2013)

It going down to 125 rather than 200 would also be significant there.


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## editor (Sep 25, 2013)

Interesting comparison here:


> Panasonic Lumix GX7 Vs Olympus OM-D E-M5 Verdict
> Both the Panasonic Lumix GX7 and Olympus OM-D E-M5 are capable of shooting extremely high quality images, delivering sharp results with low noise levels, as well as excellent colour. While the cameras use different sensors, with Panasonic using their own sensor, and the Olympus OM-D E-M5 using a Sony sensor, they both produce similar levels of noise, with a slight benefit going to the GX7 at the highest ISO settings of ISO12800 and ISO25600.
> 
> With them both capable of delivering excellent image quality, high speed shooting, and fast focus, it comes down to what features you are looking for in a camera, as to which would be best for you. For example, if you are regularly shooting outdoors, then the weather sealed OM-D E-M5 will be best suited to you. If however you like the idea of using a tilting EVF, and want the latest Wi-Fi connectivity features, then the Panasonic Lumix GX7 would make an excellent choice, particularly if you would benefit from focus peaking for manual focus lenses.
> ...


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 29, 2013)

Price has gone down by $100 already in us/canada apparently, though I see no reduction here as yet.


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## editor (Sep 29, 2013)

If I was buying a camera now, I'd wait to see what's happening price-wise with the new Olympus model.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 29, 2013)

I don't think the price for the E-M1 is going to come down, that doesn't seem to be the way Olympus do things. The E-M1 is in a different class to the GX7 though, it's more of a full-use m43 everything DSLR-equivalent rather than a pocketable quality camera. (The GH series are Panasonic's entries into the former market and tbh I've never really been attracted by them.)

The way it strikes me at the moment, Olympus have the edge when it comes to larger m43 cameras, but Panasonic are doing better with rangefinder-style compacts - the E-PL series strike me as overpriced for what they do. I think the GX7 is intended to really cement this. The EVF is a _big_ deal - E-PLs with EVFs are huge and stupid-looking and even more expensive.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 5, 2013)

I was just in a shop on Tottenham court road having a play with one and the EVF is really frickin good. In fact, given that I'd just been playing with a Sony A99 in the sony centre next door, I thought the GX7's EVF was better - I waved it around all over the place and it didn't stutter or lag once, whereas the A99 did, noticeably. (Admittedly the a99's finder is also full of all sorts of useless crap which may be slowing it down.) The rear screen is lovely too.


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## dweller (Oct 8, 2013)

Panasonic is also just about to announce a viewfinder free very small m43rds camera the GM1.
It will be around the size of a Sony RX100 and will be supplied with a tiny zoom lens 12-32mm.
Rumors say it will be announced on Oct 17th.
Interesting that they are experimenting with different body sizes and shapes at the moment.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 8, 2013)

I'd be surprised if they could get something meaningfully smaller than, say, the GF5, which is tiny - the lens mount actually bulges out above the camera body. In fact they've made the GF6 larger which goes against the grain of that series.

The thing is that the pocketability of any m43 camera is very much limited by the actual lens. The smallest they have is the 14/2.5, which is a terrific lens and really pretty small, but does still bulge out. No matter how small the body, if it has a lens like that attached you still need a large pocket to put it in (big jacket or coat) so why bother reducing the size?

Of course you could always use something like the Olympus f8 lens-cap-lens  which is a lot of fun and means you can put the thing in your trousers, but not exactly all-purpose.


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## editor (Oct 9, 2013)

dweller said:


> It will be around the size of a Sony RX100 and will be supplied with a tiny zoom lens 12-32mm.


Pretty sure that's not going to be physically possible.


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 18, 2013)

editor said:


> Pretty sure that's not going to be physically possible.


It does seem that they have done it - rather surprisingly it also has the same sensor and autofocus as the GX7, which is very good performance for something that size.

http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/124445-hands-on-panasonic-lumix-gm1-review

It's still the lens that's the bulk issue though. You still need a handbag or a jacket/coat pocket for that.


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## editor (Oct 18, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It does seem that they have done it - rather surprisingly it also has the same sensor and autofocus as the GX7, which is very good performance for something that size.
> 
> http://www.pocket-lint.com/news/124445-hands-on-panasonic-lumix-gm1-review
> 
> It's still the lens that's the bulk issue though. You still need a handbag or a jacket/coat pocket for that.


That's what prompted me to get the GR. A tiny body is a fat lot of good if the lens means it still won't fit in your pocket.


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 1, 2013)

editor said:


> That's what prompted me to get the GR. A tiny body is a fat lot of good if the lens means it still won't fit in your pocket.


I couldn't countenance spending that on the new GR, but I spotted a GRD-III for cheap today in a shop and got that, and it seems pretty terrific and also trouser sized.


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## editor (Nov 2, 2013)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I couldn't countenance spending that on the new GR, but I spotted a GRD-III for cheap today in a shop and got that, and it seems pretty terrific and also trouser sized.


Have to say I'm using the GR an awful lot these days, and its small size means that I'm taking a decent camera with me more and more these days.


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## editor (Nov 8, 2013)

DPreview have given it a silver award. 


> The DMC-GX7 is indeed an impressive camera, but how does it hold up against its immediate peers? Pretty well, in our opinion. The build quality and handling are good, though Panasonic may have gone a bit overboard in the interface department. It's the only mirrorless camera to offer an articulating EVF, and while the finder's resolution is superb, the 'rainbow effect' is not. The revised JPEG engine offers dynamic range that's much more comparable to its peers than some recent Panasonics have been, and some the color rendition too has improved greatly over older models. As a result, the GX7 holds its own against both mirrorless and midrange DSLRs in terms of both performance and photo quality (though there will be a bit more noise in extreme situations).
> 
> Panasonic has thrown virtually every possible feature into its DMC-GX7 mirrorless camera, and for the most part, they've succeeded. We like the photo and video quality, performance, customizable controls, and silent shooting mode. That said, the limitations on the in-body IS system, the tendency to close down the aperture in Program mode, and lack of in-camera Raw processing keep the GX7 from earning our highest recommendation.


http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dmc-gx7/14


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## dweller (Nov 11, 2013)

Had a quick feel of one in Jessops. 
Although you can't get your hand on the grip properly as they have those security tags.
Viewfinder seemed very small. I like the way it flips up though. 
Quite a light body, doesn't feel as sturdy as I imagined. 
I'm sure it will be a very nice little camera for some. 
The range of panasonic m43 cameras on display was so huge. I felt it must be hard for the sales staff to pitch them.
GF6 G6 GH3 GX7 and GM1


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## MBV (Nov 24, 2013)

What did all the LX3 users jump to?


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 24, 2013)

dfm said:


> What did all the LX3 users jump to?


The LX7?

This isn't an L-series, it's a G-series. Panasonic's naming procedures are pretty obscure though.


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## MBV (Nov 24, 2013)

Makes sense 

(misread thread title)


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 15, 2013)

The best deal I've seen on this so far seems to be on digitalrev, who are selling it with the 20/1.7 prim v2 for £719. This is only £20 more than body only and means I could sell my old 20/1.7 lens. Pretty tempted tbh.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 15, 2013)

The GM1, which is the ultra-tiny version that has the same sensor but is 40% smaller, has also gotten some great reviews - e.g. http://www.techradar.com/reviews/ca...rs-hybrids/panasonic-lumix-gm1-1190371/review

Personally it's a bit small for me and has no EVF but it's a significant achievement to get that IQ in that body size.


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## editor (Dec 16, 2013)

It's a brilliant technological achievement, but I think I prefer more physical controls to be available - and, ideally, an EVF.


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## Virtual Blue (Jul 15, 2015)

I just purchased this on a real good deal...
Can't wait.


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 29, 2015)

You can get the GX7 plus lens for under £500 right now, given that the GX8 is coming out. Mind you, the GX8 does look pretty amazing.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 10, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You can get the GX7 plus lens for under £500 right now, given that the GX8 is coming out. Mind you, the GX8 does look pretty amazing.


I think I'm going to get a GX8. There are some very good deals on s/h GX7s right now, but there seem to be so many improvements over the 7 in the 8 that even paying more than twice the price sounds reasonable. The EVF is better (EVF quality is key for me), the screen is fully articulated, it's weather-sealed (okay admittedly my lenses aren't), it has more manual controls which I like, it has all the "4K photography" modes, it has in-body stabilisation which can work at the same time as lens stabilisation, it takes the same batteries as my G5 so I already have a spare, there are a few deals on for trade-ins... plus I got a backdated pay rise which I promised I wouldn't spunk on a camera but clearly am going to.

Panasonic Lumix DMC-GX8 Review | PhotographyBLOG

The main complaint seems to be that it's quite chunky. _Oh the horror._ For me, the only thing it doesn't have for some reason is an onboard flash. I don't use flash a lot but it's nice to have the option. I can probably live with that.


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## Virtual Blue (Sep 11, 2015)

If you can afford it and able to live without a flash, the GX8 is the better choice.

I've had the GX7 for nearly 2 months and it's been quite versatile, good all rounder. Takes very decent pictures but the lack of stabilisation in video mode is a huge let down. And the EVF/ LCD button and sensors are a joke. It's a massive improvement from my previous GF2 (and the original G1 before that). At £400 with additional lenses - 12-32/ 20mm prime,  it was and still is a great deal.


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 12, 2015)

Virtual Blue said:


> If you can afford it and able to live without a flash, the GX8 is the better choice.
> 
> I've had the GX7 for nearly 2 months and it's been quite versatile, good all rounder. Takes very decent pictures but the lack of stabilisation in video mode is a huge let down. And the EVF/ LCD button and sensors are a joke. It's a massive improvement from my previous GF2 (and the original G1 before that). At £400 with additional lenses - 12-32/ 20mm prime,  it was and still is a great deal.


I popped into London Camera Exchange and worked out that trading in my old G5, with the various discounts I could get about £300 off the body only price. Which is good. But I'm still having trouble answering that nagging question "what photos will you be able to take with this that you couldn't before?" Bah.


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## Virtual Blue (Sep 27, 2015)

Did you get the GX8?


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## editor (Sep 28, 2015)

I really don't think it's worth that amount of money... it's a nice camera, but - blimey  a grand?!


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 28, 2015)

Virtual Blue said:


> Did you get the GX8?



No; in the end I decided that I didn't need any more frickin cameras, even at £300 off, and that any money would be better spent on, say, going on holiday. No point having a great camera and nothing to take pictures of.



editor said:


> I really don't think it's worth that amount of money... it's a nice camera, but - blimey  a grand?!



It's pro level stuff (and I could get almost a third off) but it's getting harder and harder to justify spending full price on new versions, particularly when you figure in the fact that it'll be half that or less in a year. The only camera I've ever bought new full price was the GR I think.


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## editor (Sep 28, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's pro level stuff (and I could get almost a third off) but it's getting harder and harder to justify spending full price on new versions, particularly when you figure in the fact that it'll be half that or less in a year. The only camera I've ever bought new full price was the GR I think.


I got my Olympus OM EM-5 Mk II for just £580 which was hugely discounted from its quoted price. Bloody good camera too.


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## editor (Oct 16, 2015)

Video review of the GX8 here. Blimey, it's a chunk fella.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 16, 2015)

editor said:


> Video review of the GX8 here. Blimey, it's a chunk fella.




My hands may not be as legendarily small as fogbat's, but I reckon I'd have a damned hard time gripping the handgrip on that!


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 28, 2015)

editor said:


> Video review of the GX8 here. Blimey, it's a chunk fella.



I had a play with it recently and yeah, it's definitely Leica-style chunky—not all that much smaller than the GH4, though with fewer protruding bits. More like a main camera than the GX7 which is noticeably more compact. Still easily bag-portable though.

I'm still considering it, but it depends on how much I can flog my Sony A900 for (which is a great camera but I just don't use it a lot because it's _really_ big and heavy, at least compared to any m43 kit). I might also sell off some film cameras as well. Digitalrev have it for £700 body only.


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## Virtual Blue (Nov 29, 2015)

...still a lot for a body.
Why not check in about 3-6 months time? It's still too new for a significant price drop - and I don't see it comparable to the GH4 (eternally expensive).


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 29, 2015)

Virtual Blue said:


> ...still a lot for a body.
> Why not check in about 3-6 months time? It's still too new for a significant price drop - and I don't see it comparable to the GH4 (eternally expensive).


Oh, I won't have the money for at least that long I expect. I'm in no particular hurry.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2015)

I've just seen it refurbed for £800 including the 14-140 lens that I really want, which goes for around £300 on its own :/

stop it!


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## editor (Dec 4, 2015)

If I was spending that kind of dosh, I think I'd be more tempted by Sony's A7 full frame jobbie. Well, I'm already tempted, to be honest.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 4, 2015)

editor said:


> If I was spending that kind of dosh, I think I'd be more tempted by Sony's A7 full frame jobbie. Well, I'm already tempted, to be honest.


I _have_ been tempted by it—I have some old Minolta A-mount lenses which should work well—but it's at least twice that, and my m43 lenses would be useless on it. I have a good selection of those. Plus, switching systems, I wouldn't then have any backup bodies.

I've decided to try to rationalise my digital kit to just m43 as the system, plus the GR as pocket camera. It's just that the G5 I have is showing its age a little. I mean, it's okay, fine for most situations, but the EVF is not great in the bright sun (I'm picky about EVFs) and at 3200 I'd like a bit better IQ.


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## Virtual Blue (Dec 14, 2015)

Hey 4/3 users - I'm new to zooms. Can anyone comment on how well the Oly 40-150mm perform on a GX7?   
Is it decent cos it's pretty cheap for the price?


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## editor (Dec 14, 2015)

Virtual Blue said:


> Hey 4/3 users - I'm new to zooms. Can anyone comment on how well the Oly 40-150mm perform on a GX7?
> Is it decent cos it's pretty cheap for the price?


I've got one of these lenses. It's not a bad performer but pretty slow (in terms of aperture).


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 14, 2015)

Virtual Blue said:


> Hey 4/3 users - I'm new to zooms. Can anyone comment on how well the Oly 40-150mm perform on a GX7?
> Is it decent cos it's pretty cheap for the price?


I only have the Panasonic 45-150 but all I've seen seems to indicate that the two have basically the same performance. It's a surprisingly good lens, lightweight and very sharp; it's part of my standard bag for m43. The Olympus doesn't have OIS, but then the GX7 has IBIS so that shouldn't matter a lot.


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## Virtual Blue (Dec 14, 2015)

Thanks you two! Think I will get one for xmas.

I don't suppose you guys have played with the Sigma 60mm? It's alot cheaper than the Oly version.

ETA - the zoom is so cheap, I maybe able to afford a macro too!!


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## grosun (Dec 14, 2015)

Virtual Blue said:


> Hey 4/3 users - I'm new to zooms. Can anyone comment on how well the Oly 40-150mm perform on a GX7?
> Is it decent cos it's pretty cheap for the price?


Late to the question & it seems you've already made your mind up, but just to confirm, yeah it's surprisingly nice, and being mainly plastic makes it very light too. In the middle of its zoom range it's pretty sharp, & not awful at the ends.

If you want some examples, this photo and the previous few were taken with it (on an Olympus body, but it shouldn't make an immense difference if the GX7 has IBIS)


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 14, 2015)

edit: nm


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## Virtual Blue (Jan 6, 2016)

Omg, there's a GX8 on another forum going for £475 - shell only. Unwanted Xmas buy from Black Friday.
I am so tempted.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 24, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I've just seen it refurbed for £800 including the 14-140 lens that I really want, which goes for around £300 on its own :/
> 
> stop it!


I ended up buying this in the end. I had to send it back because the lens they originally sent wouldn't connect  but it came back this week after like a frickin month.

It's not really a different experience to using my existing Lumix cameras—it's just the same but better, without the bits that annoyed me previously. The EVF is mint, and has an eye shield; way way better than the G5. The exposure meter is smarter (seems to blow highlights noticeably less than my G5). It has a million options which I generally ignore, but some of which are useful e.g. applying colour filters to B&W photos. It's well built (as noted above it is relatively chunky) but still not at all heavy. AF speed is great but I don't find it any faster than the G5; all my Lumixes have had great AF.

The ability to do combo lens + body stabilisation means that you can get some absurd shots. With the 14-140 I've taken shots at 1/15 and slower at the long end which were fine.

I think the only thing that micro 4/3 still loses out on (and may always) is super-high ISO performance. What this means has changed a lot recently, but this top-of-the-range m43 camera shoots pretty well to 3200, with top-of-the-range full frames now in five digits of "pretty good" ISO. If you want tele shots in the dark you'll still get a higher quality image with full frame. Personally, I don't care; good performance at 3200 is the key for me, I rarely find I need to go higher than that.


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 25, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I ended up buying this in the end. I had to send it back because the lens they originally sent wouldn't connect  but it came back this week after like a frickin month.



You realise that a load of us had a sweepstake going on how quickly you'd crack?


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 27, 2016)

Well, it was only a matter of time....

The more I use it in practice the more I think the best improvements are just in tidying up loose ends in the UI. The UI is _crucial_ to cameras after all; they all take pictures well enough, it's more a question of how convenient they are for the job you want them to do. So you can quickly turn off touchscreen for instance (when the camera's over your neck/shoulder and you don't want to be changing your focus point by accident when it bumps into you) and assign that to a function button so it can easily be switched. Same with disabling/enabling the direction pad, so you can avoid the "omg what happened to my white balance" moment when picking up the camera for that crucial shot. If you run around a lot at protests or wherever these are important things. You can automate some stuff, like electronic shutter for instance; there's an "auto" setting for that as well as "off" and "on", so it uses the E-shutter if it's capable and otherwise goes mechanical. Shutter sound is lovely btw though that's perhaps a minor point.

You can set up your JPEGs in a much better and more complete way. You can manually set contrast curves. You can apply colour filters to in-camera B&W conversion (red, yellow etc). It all reminds me of the Ricoh GR, where you can customise everything how you like it and just leave it there, ready for use.

There's loads more than this as well. I've not had one of Panasonic's pro-level cameras before so I can't say how much of it is new, but it's a big step up over the G series.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 27, 2016)

The 14-140mm lens is great as well by the way. There's nothing about it that makes you say "wow this is incredible" from looking at individual pictures, but it reliably takes good, sharp, shots over the whole focal length range, wide open. For a 28-280mm equivalent lens that's pretty impressive.


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## editor (Jan 28, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> The 14-140mm lens is great as well by the way. There's nothing about it that makes you say "wow this is incredible" from looking at individual pictures, but it reliably takes good, sharp, shots over the whole focal length range, wide open. For a 28-280mm equivalent lens that's pretty impressive.


I've got the Olympus version, Great range but I wish it was faster.


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## FridgeMagnet (Jan 31, 2016)

editor said:


> I've got the Olympus version, Great range but I wish it was faster.


Yeah, that would be nice, but it's okay for most purposes (in the daylight anyway). You can't get tight DOF shots with it but tbh if you want that you should be using specialised lenses anyway. I'd still like one of those 12-35 f2.8 lenses but they're more than the camera plus 14-140....


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## Virtual Blue (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm looking at the GX8 as I'm seeing the limitations with the GX7.
Is it 'that much' better?

The GX8 is more affordable now...


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## FridgeMagnet (Sep 22, 2017)

Virtual Blue said:


> I'm looking at the GX8 as I'm seeing the limitations with the GX7.
> Is it 'that much' better?
> 
> The GX8 is more affordable now...


Depends on the limitations you’re seeing. In general I would say probably not; while it is better than the previous Lumixes I’ve had, it’s not super amazing better, and it’s noticeably larger than the GX7. But maybe there’s something specific you hate that it might help with.


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## Virtual Blue (Sep 28, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Depends on the limitations you’re seeing. In general I would say probably not; while it is better than the previous Lumixes I’ve had, it’s not super amazing better, and it’s noticeably larger than the GX7. But maybe there’s something specific you hate that it might help with.



The stabilisation on the GX7 gets on my nerves and at times, the autofocus.
I've missed many 'moments' because of this.
It's also quite shit in low lighting.

Other than that, it's a great little companion.
Just feels a little pushed at times.


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## Virtual Blue (Nov 16, 2017)

Anyone have experience of the G80?


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