# Android? Has it beaten Apple yet?



## ChrisC (Jun 7, 2012)

I'm in London at the moment waiting for my appointment in regards to the lump on my leg.

Anyway I have been observing the people around me. On the train. Waiting to see the surgeon. What I see, is many, many people using iPhones and iPads. I thought Android has taken top place now. Alright maybe I won't have ago at the iPad as Android or any other company have yet to beat Apple.

But the iPhone? Only seen two Android devices so far. I guess these people are waiting for there contracts to end. 

Sad isn't it, normal people train spot and do other things. I take interest in what is going on around me. As in what technology people are using.


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## Crispy (Jun 7, 2012)

"beaten" in what sense?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Jun 7, 2012)

if your talking market share android is above apple. [Wiki]

if your talking brand image... dunno

perhaps  android people  don't wave em about on the train as much


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## elbows (Jun 7, 2012)

You won't stop seeing a load of iphones in a hurry. Lots of people chose android for their first smartphone, and quite a lot switched from an iphone to an android, but plenty more have remained with the iPhone or are just getting started on that path. I don't think current market share is as visible as you seem to be expecting.

As for tablets, I think android has performed even worse than my original expectations, in terms of market share and momentum and apps. I didn't want it to be this way, but I found it hard to put aside my misgivings. Not even Apple could be very sure of success in that space, and their triumphs have not been easily replicated. It doesn't help that expectations for how android would do here were a bit giddy at times, e.g. when Eric Schmidt takes rubbish about how the majority of developers would be doing android apps first by now. It could happen at some point, but we are still far from that day. We've argued over some of the possible reasons before, e.g. perception or reality that its harder to get money out of enough android users, that the range of devices & specs can be a pain to develop for. Despite the hopes of some that it wouldn't be a major issue, the fragmentation of android devices in terms of which version of android they are on really doesn't help.

From android to google+, I am sad to say that my perception of google has not changed in recent years. They do a lot of things right, but the nature of their partnership with hardware manufacturers and various other aspects of the way they operate, design & implement stuff does not help them to work wonders in the way that Apple have with their distinctly different set of priorities and compromises.

So from where Im sitting its all gone a bit lop-sisded. They've had staggering success in terms of market share of smartphones, they've enabled Samsung to hoover up a great chunk of the profit from this sector like Apple do, they've got a nice mobile platform, and yet some important parts of the jigsaw still elude them, or at least do not come towards them at the anticipated pace.


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## mincepie (Jun 7, 2012)

The Android tablet market seems very blurry and confused, and I can see this has not helped sales. While i'd like an Android tablet there isn't really a clear winner or strong brands in the same way that there were strong HTC or Samsung phones. The most expensive Android tablets seem nearly as much as iPad without the hi-res screen or premium product feel.


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## gentlegreen (Jun 7, 2012)

I wonder if "iPhone" could ever become as meaningless as "Hoover" ?


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## elbows (Jun 7, 2012)

mincepie said:


> The Android tablet market seems very blurry and confused, and I can see this has not helped sales. While i'd like an Android tablet there isn't really a clear winner or strong brands in the same way that there were strong HTC or Samsung phones. The most expensive Android tablets seem nearly as much as iPad without the hi-res screen or premium product feel.


Thats one of the prime advantages Apple always have. They've got such tight control over the product as a whole, not just the software/services, that they can offer a certain kind of clarity when marketing & selling that others can't. Microsoft has had similar problems to Google with this kind of issue in the past.

Google and anyone that favours choice should consider themselves lucky the nature & pricing of smartphones at this time made this much less of an issue for such devices, although we have of course also lost some choice as several other companies/platforms seem to have suffered terminal decline during this time.

Im certainly looking forward to seeing what happens with windows 8 tablets to see if the picture changes or whether thats going to languish as well.


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## editor (Jun 7, 2012)

Android has outsold Apple for ages now. Perhaps people don't wave them about as much.
I see loads of Android users around. In fact, more of my friends have got S2s than iPhones.






http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/feb/21/android-smartphones-os-uk-apple

Updated reports here: 


> Android continued its relentless march on the mobile market in the first quarter of 2012, making up 56% of world smartphone shipments as that sector grew by 44.7% to 144.4m, even while the overall world market for mobile phones shrank by 2% year-on-year to 419m, according to new data from research company Gartner.
> 
> A year ago Android phones were 36.4% of the smartphone market, at 36.4m units. But a year later they more than doubled to 81m, leaping nearly 20 points in share in the past year. Of other mobile phone platforms, only Apple managed any significant growth in sales and share, rising to 33.1m units and 22.9%, compared to 16.9% and 16.9m units a year ago when the total smartphone market was just short of 100m.


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2012/may/16/android-smartphone-market-50-percent


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## elbows (Jun 7, 2012)

It's more than just whether they don't wave them about as much, but whether this also means they are using them as smartphones less. I know some older data seemed to show that people with android phones were perhaps not so manic in their web usage etc as iPhone users, I wonder if they changed much since large-screen androids became popular.

Personally Id be happier to hear that people aren't spending as much time using their devices as many iphone users seemed to be, since Im uncomfortable with quite how much time some people invest in messing around with such tech. In many cases a fair bit of that is probably novelty that wears off, just like I've seen friends dabble with Facebook apps and then stop bothering after a while, but this stuff can still lead to some worrying questions of information overload, concentration, pace of life etc.


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## pinkmonkey (Jun 7, 2012)

At a fashion trade show I went to in Berlin recently this phone brand was doing a roaring trade.

http://www.just5.com/home.php I love the rainbow buttons one.  Plenty of people out there who are 'meh' about smartphones and just want one that works with a battery that lasts more than one day.


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## editor (Jun 7, 2012)

elbows said:


> It's more than just whether they don't wave them about as much, but whether this also means they are using them as smartphones less. I know some older data seemed to show that people with android phones were perhaps not so manic in their web usage etc as iPhone users, I wonder if they changed much since large-screen androids became popular.


Don't think so. And this is from 2010:


> *Android users gobble more data than iPhone users*
> The study by Validas, a research firm that gathers data from phone bills, shows that Verizon subscribers who have smart phones (but not BlackBerrys) power through an average of 450MB per month, up more than double from last fall, before Verizon's Droid-branded Android line hit the market. In the same period, iPhone users averaged about 350MB of data consumption, while BlackBerry users across all carriers were averaging less than 50MB.
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3845620...s-gobble-more-data-iphone-users/#.T9EEtEVYtM8


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## editor (Jun 7, 2012)

And it's the same story in 2012: 



> *iPhone users consume less data than Android, says Sprint CEO*
> Sprint CEO Dan Hesse stated in a recent Mobile World Live interview that iPhone users are more profitable for the carrier because they use less data than Android users.
> 
> “iPhone customers have a lower level of churn, and they actually use less data on average than a high-end, 4G Android device,” said the executive. So from a cost point of view and a customer lifetime value perspective…they’re more profitable than the average smartphone customer.”
> http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/21/sprint-iphone-interview/


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## elbows (Jun 7, 2012)

Thanks for looking that stuff up. I would be cautious about placing that exact interpretation on that particular sort of data, since there may be other factors. e.g. maybe a greater number of ad-supported android apps that are using up mobile data, or greater use of a particular sort of data-intensive application on android, that doesn't actually translate to more time spent using it as a smartphone.

Id also like to include wireless network access as well as mobile data, so I guess Id want to augment the data with information such as percentage of web traffic being accessed by a particular browser/device. Not that I take such numbers too seriously due to the usual problems with getting data that truly reflects the broad reality.


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## editor (Jun 7, 2012)

elbows said:


> Thanks for looking that stuff up. I would be cautious about placing that exact interpretation on that particular sort of data, since there may be other factors. e.g. maybe a greater number of ad-supported android apps that are using up mobile data, or greater use of a particular sort of data-intensive application on android, that doesn't actually translate to more time spent using it as a smartphone.
> 
> Id also like to include wireless network access as well as mobile data, so I guess Id want to augment the data with information such as percentage of web traffic being accessed by a particular browser/device. Not that I take such numbers too seriously due to the usual problems with getting data that truly reflects the broad reality.


However you want to spin it, your suggestion than Android owners use their phones 'less as smartphones' looks very weak indeed. 




http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire...-s-in-smartphone-market-share-and-data-usage/


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## grit (Jun 7, 2012)

editor said:


> Android has outsold Apple for ages now. Perhaps people don't wave them about as much.
> I see loads of Android users around. In fact, more of my friends have got S2s than iPhones.
> 
> 
> ...


 
Yeah but App Store profits still dwarf the Android equivalents. A lot of those Android sales are entry level, basic phones of which the users dont buy apps.

The OP question is far too broad, you need to set the measure first, its far too complex to simply in this manner.


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## grit (Jun 7, 2012)

editor said:


> However you want to spin it, your suggestion than Android owners use their phones 'less as smartphones' looks very weak indeed.
> 
> 
> http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire...-s-in-smartphone-market-share-and-data-usage/


 
Not really, Android will have a lot of power users/geeks who will really skew the averages of stuff like average download.


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## elbows (Jun 7, 2012)

editor said:


> However you want to spin it, your suggestion than Android owners use their phones 'less as smartphones' looks very weak indeed.


 
Perhaps, but if you want to weaken it then try posting stats that have something to do with the point I made, not stats that can be subject to exactly the same criticism as before. Maybe that 2nd graph counts, but I don't know if they managed to sample a decent cross-section of users.

I know people who use their androids as intensively as they used their iPhones previously, but I don't know what proportion of android owners are a good fit for this group of users.

The issue might be inconsequential, I don't know, and I doubt we will really find out since so many of the statistics should not be taken as gospel. I can still ask the question though, since Im not a fan of assumptions. Its not spin, its based on a fairly certain memory that we had some discussion about such mobile browser stats here ages ago, thats where I got the idea from.


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## grit (Jun 7, 2012)

elbows said:


> Perhaps, but if you want to weaken it then try posting stats that have something to do with the point I made, not stats that can be subject to exactly the same criticism as before. Maybe that 2nd graph counts, but I don't know if they managed to sample a decent cross-section of users.
> 
> I know people who use their androids as intensively as they used their iPhones previously, but I don't know what proportion of android owners are a good fit for this group of users.
> 
> The issue might be inconsequential, I don't know, and I doubt we will really find out since so many of the statistics should not be taken as gospel. I can still ask the question though, since Im not a fan of assumptions. Its not spin, its based on a fairly certain memory that we had some discussion about such mobile browser stats here ages ago, thats where I got the idea from.


 
Its_ so hard_ to tell really, my mother has a iPhone 4S and has never installed an app, I know many users like her. It gets used for phone,sms and email thats it.


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## elbows (Jun 7, 2012)

grit said:


> Its_ so hard_ to tell really, my mother has a iPhone 4S and has never installed an app, I know many users like her. It gets used for phone,sms and email thats it.


 
Yeah. More broadly I think the whole net/digital/knowledge economy and the sort of hype about certain products that it produces right now, and the profit expectations that result, are going to get into a spot of bother. There is real demand to do a whole bunch of stuff, but not really to the extent that is often suggested, especially once the novelty wears off.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 7, 2012)

Crispy said:


> "beaten" in what sense?



Like an egg?


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## grit (Jun 8, 2012)

gentlegreen said:


> I wonder if "iPhone" could ever become as meaningless as "Hoover" ?


 
I've already heard people who have no tech knowledge use the term as a catch all for smart phones...


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## editor (Jul 12, 2012)

Latest figures: 


> Android-based devices, for the first time, now make up at least half of smartphone sales in the U.S., U.K., Germany, France, Italy, Spain, and Australia, according to new data from market research firm Kantar Worldpanel ComTech.
> The sales were recorded during a 12-week period ending on June 10, during which Android's share ranged from 49.6 percent in Italy to an overwhelming 84.1 percent in Spain.
> 
> http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2407025,00.asp


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## mattie (Jul 12, 2012)

editor said:


> However you want to spin it, your suggestion than Android owners use their phones 'less as smartphones' looks very weak indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Is this just 3/4G, or does it include wi-fi?

As an aside, one thing I've found is that google maps/nav can use up a fair bit of bandwidth on android - not sure if iPhone does the same.


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## editor (Jul 13, 2012)

Some more graphs:
​

​

 
http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/?p=32494


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## elbows (Jul 13, 2012)

What is going on with that last one? Whats the point of a graphic like that if the area each one occupies does not relate to the percentage properly? Most notably why is the Blackberry area over half the size of the Apple one when its only 9% compared to 34%? So they could fit the words RIM Blackberry onto one line horizontally?


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## magneze (Jul 13, 2012)

It's an atrocious chart. It looks like it's useful at a glance, but when you look at the numbers it just collapses into bollocks.


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## grit (Jul 13, 2012)

The current sitaution can be summarised like this.

There are more Android users, but iPhone users spend more money.


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## Chz (Jul 13, 2012)

In terms of bandwidth use, the stats I've seen show that the median iOS user is very close to the average. The median Android user is *well* below the average. There's some outliers that are skewing the averages.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jul 13, 2012)

grit said:


> The current sitaution can be summarised like this.
> 
> There are more Android users, but iPhone users spend more money.



Probably the most sensible analysis on urban75 of this.


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## ovaltina (Jul 16, 2012)

grit said:


> The current sitaution can be summarised like this.
> 
> There are more Android users, but iPhone users spend more money.



Android was designed to be a lot more accessible than iphone, that's why Google gives it for free to any manufacturer who wants to make a phone. If there were no android there would be millions of people still stuck on nokias.


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## editor (Jul 17, 2012)

Latest figures show Samsung crushing Apple in the last quarter: 


> Samsung is expected to have sold 50 million smartphones in the quarter, compared with Apple's forecast sales of 30.5 million iPhones.
> "Samsung is expected to be the smartphone hero in the second quarter," said IDC analyst Francisco Jeronimo.
> 
> "We are also expecting to see the biggest smartphone volumes ever shipped from one single vendor in one quarter, driven by strong demand of the Galaxy portfolio, particularly the Galaxy S II and S III," he said.


http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/16/idINL6E8IG0FK20120716

And they're spanking Nokia's botty too: 


> In the overall cellphone market, when also including basic cellphones, Samsung ended Nokia's 14-year reign as the world's largest in the first quarter and is expected to stretch that lead.
> Samsung is estimated to have sold 15.7 million more phones than Nokia in the second quarter, the poll showed. In the first quarter, it sold 3.4 million more phones than Nokia, according to Gartner.


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## grit (Jul 17, 2012)

ovaltina said:


> Android was designed to be a lot more accessible than iphone, that's why Google gives it for free to any manufacturer who wants to make a phone. If there were no android there would be millions of people still stuck on nokias.


 
Android was designed to serve advertisements. Thats it.


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## editor (Jul 17, 2012)

grit said:


> Android was designed to serve advertisements. Thats it.


I'm not seeing too many on my phone right now, you know.


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## grit (Jul 18, 2012)

editor said:


> I'm not seeing too many on my phone right now, you know.


 
It is however linked to your google accounts, which promotes/encourages your use of them, which helps them target advertisements. Why do you think they designed it? How do you think they justify the cost of the development?

None of this detracts from Android btw.


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## editor (Jul 18, 2012)

grit said:


> It is however linked to your google accounts, which promotes/encourages your use of them, which helps them target advertisements.


You don't think your comment, "Android was designed to serve advertisements. Thats it." suggested that anyone using an Android device might reasonably expect to suffer a relentless bombardment of adverts all day long?

FYI: there are no adverts displayed on any of the Google apps I use on my phone: Google Analytics, Chrome, GMail, Maps, Navigation, Talk, YouTube, MyTracks, Calendar etc etc.


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## grit (Jul 18, 2012)

editor said:


> You don't think your comment, "Android was designed to serve advertisements. Thats it." suggested that anyone using an Android device* might reasonably expect to suffer a relentless bombardment of adverts all day long*?


 
No, only if the reader restricted themselves the most literal and narrow interpretation. I reasonably expected the post the be interpreted in the sense it was meant as there is no evidence anywhere (here or anywhere else on the net) that the situation you described exists.

Not to mention it was in response to a post that suggested the reason for Androids development was "accessibly"


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## ovaltina (Jul 18, 2012)

I'm sure advertising is important to the business model, but so is accessibility to emerging technologies, which Apple was unwilling to offer. They saw a gap in the market and leapt in, so now we have affordable smartphones.


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## magneze (Jul 18, 2012)

grit said:


> Not to mention it was in response to a post that suggested the reason for Androids development was "accessibly"


The post didn't say "accessibility" was the reason for Androids development.


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## grit (Jul 18, 2012)

ovaltina said:


> Android was designed to be a lot more accessible than iphone,


 
hmm maybe I read that incorrectly last night.. either way my point still stands.


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## grit (Jul 18, 2012)

ovaltina said:


> I'm sure advertising is important to the business model, *but so is accessibility to emerging technologies*, which Apple was unwilling to offer. They saw a gap in the market and leapt in, so now we have affordable smartphones.


 
Can you provide an example?


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