# Council votes to demolish Lakota



## JTG (Jun 11, 2008)

by 9 to 1 apparently

too pissed off with this on so many levels to comment much further

bastards


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## Sweaty Betty (Jun 11, 2008)

OMG!!!!!!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

First the hippo---now lakota....

House is truly dead


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## gentlegreen (Jun 11, 2008)

So presumably that whole area is getting gentrified - including the building with mushrooms painted on it ?


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## JTG (Jun 11, 2008)

yeah, the area needs to be made safe for yuppies.

we need community spaces, low cost housing for families and young people and better access to training and jobs. not yuppie flats and 'cafe-bars'

we need to preserve our historic buildings, not build yet more hideous lego boxes

fucking morons.


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## fizzerbird (Jun 11, 2008)

*sighs heavily*


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## JTG (Jun 11, 2008)

it's days like today I think kindly of the crack dealers and their noisy clients outside and hope they put the yuppies off from moving in.

the support for this from self appointed community 'leaders' pisses me off more than the decision itself. they claim to know what's best for St Pauls yet still believe that posh flats and coffee shops will help alleviate poverty and lack of opportunity? when the fuck do these people start thinking things through?

we need to address the needs of people here, not property developers.


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## big eejit (Jun 11, 2008)

Who did you vote for on the council jtg?


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## JTG (Jun 11, 2008)

I didn't vote for anyone on the council

Last time around I voted for the Green candidate in Ashley who came a very narrow second to the Lib Dem


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## big eejit (Jun 11, 2008)

Me too. So we've been outvoted by the popular will of Bristol. That's democracy for you!


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## JTG (Jun 11, 2008)

It doesn't really work like that though does it?


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## nogojones (Jun 11, 2008)

wankers


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## gentlegreen (Jun 12, 2008)

JTG said:


> it's days like today I think kindly of the crack dealers and their noisy clients outside and hope they put the yuppies off from moving in.


To be fair, Pollyanna would have to be wearing the rosiest of rose-coloured specs to see any good in that ...


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## Geri (Jun 12, 2008)

Is it really the council's fault though? I mean, they can't force the owners to keep it open a club and if there is nobody else willing to buy it and run it as a club, I don't see what the alternative is. I take your point about needing more community housing and such like, but again, is that something the council have any control over?


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## JTG (Jun 12, 2008)

they could at least insist that the building is preserved though

and of course the council have control over planning applications - apparently this one had below the minimum required number of family units (which don't have access to a garden anyway so can't truly be described as such) for a start. They can surely prioritise certain types of development over others, preserve the historic fabric of the area and tell developers to go away and think again. Instead they just roll over and have their tummies tickled every time someone decides to socially engineer away a little more of our area.


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## suburbia (Jun 12, 2008)

Sad to hear it, had many a good night/morning out there


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## Isambard (Jun 12, 2008)

JTG said:


> the support for this from self appointed community 'leaders' pisses me off more than the decision itself. t



You mean councillors Jittug? Or people in local community groups and stuff?


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## Geri (Jun 12, 2008)

JTG said:


> and of course the council have control over planning applications - apparently this one had below the minimum required number of family units (which don't have access to a garden anyway so can't truly be described as such) for a start.



Ah right, I didn't realise a planning proposal had been submitted. It is a shame because it's a very interesting building and it would be ideal for a large community centre/workshops type of thing, but unfortunately nobody seems to be interested in making that kind of thing happen anymore.

Mind you with the housing market as it is, I bet any flats they build will probably sit empty for quite a long time.


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## JTG (Jun 12, 2008)

Isambard said:


> You mean councillors Jittug? Or people in local community groups and stuff?



community groups nobody's ever heard of but who apparently 'represent' st pauls


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## Thora (Jun 12, 2008)

JTG said:


> community groups nobody's ever heard of but who apparently 'represent' st pauls



You should start your own community group and see if you can get on HTV as a community leader


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## Geri (Jun 13, 2008)

Talking of St Pauls 'community leaders' Does anyone remember Kuomba Balogun? He caused a lot of controversy once when some police chief had a heart attack, and he was reported as saying "I hope the bastard dies". It was in The Sun and everything. I wonder whatever happened to him.


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## King Biscuit Time (Jun 13, 2008)

Is there enough popular feeling to get an independent councillor elected next year? Get someone inside the council house and on the gravy train.


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## Geri (Jun 13, 2008)

Well, one of their councillors lives in America so I'm pretty sure there will be a vacancy soon.


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## JTG (Jun 13, 2008)

Ah yes, the Lib Dems and their chocolate teapot values


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## xenon (Jun 13, 2008)

If there's one thing this city needs, it's more "luxury apartments" and coffee shops. That's progress in modern Britain.


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## High Voltage (Jun 14, 2008)

But then, if this is true HURRAH!!

Would you really miss Lakota?


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## gentlegreen (Jun 14, 2008)

> NEW FIVE FLOOR DANCE VENUE TO OPEN IN JAN IN BRISTOL



I'm sat here musing on whether "floors" sounds any more fanciful than "arenas"  

(Where the Depot is concened, for "arena", read urine-flooded "cockpit")


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## JTG (Jun 14, 2008)

High Voltage said:


> But then, if this is true HURRAH!!
> 
> Would you really miss Lakota?



tbh, the loss of a club venue is of secondary concern to me. it's the impact on my community that bothers me


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## Uhuru (Jun 14, 2008)

JTG said:


> community groups nobody's ever heard of but who apparently 'represent' st pauls



The two people who spoke at the hearing in support of the Lakota application were Paul Stephenson and Guy Reid-Bailey.  If you have never heard of them it shows how ignorant you actually are - the reason they both represent St Paul is because they have both done so much.  Go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/bristol/content/articles/2007/08/31/bbap_feature.shtml - educate yourself.


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## gentlegreen (Jun 14, 2008)

hello, welcome to urban, have a fecking hobnob why don't you.


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## JTG (Jun 14, 2008)

Uhuru said:


> The two people who spoke at the hearing in support of the Lakota application were Paul Stephenson and Guy Reid-Bailey.  If you have never heard of them it shows how ignorant you actually are - the reason they both represent St Paul is because they have both done so much.  Go to http://www.bbc.co.uk/bristol/content/articles/2007/08/31/bbap_feature.shtml - educate yourself.



they don't represent st pauls really though do they? no more than any other single person does.

I'm not ignorant though ta, I'm fully aware of the impact gentrification has on working class people in St Pauls. Are you?


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## JTG (Jun 14, 2008)

JTG said:


> the support for this from self appointed community 'leaders' pisses me off more than the decision itself. they claim to know what's best for St Pauls yet still believe that posh flats and coffee shops will help alleviate poverty and lack of opportunity? when the fuck do these people start thinking things through?
> 
> we need to address the needs of people here, not property developers.



Address these points please Uhuru


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## Agent Sparrow (Jun 14, 2008)

Crispy says:
megasux 
more later ((C)wow)


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## Uhuru (Jun 14, 2008)

JTG said:


> Address these points please Uhuru



I do not recall anyone suggesting that "posh flats and coffee shops could alleviate poverty and lack of opportunity".  However, it was said that this development would give young BME people something to aspire to as the family who owned Lakota are not some 'johnny come lately' developers jumping on the St Pauls bandwagon but local people who have done their bit for their community.  It was also said that by making the developers have a diversity policy would provide employment for local people. 

I also do not think either of them said that they represent the people of St Pauls.  It was made pretty clear that they were representing the BME community of Bristol.


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## JTG (Jun 14, 2008)

right, so they weren't representing the people who live in the area. Thank you.

what has the past record of Lakota's owners got to do with the validity of this development?

as for giving BME people something to aspire to, that's all well and good but we all know that aspiring to status in this society does not mean that everyone can achieve that goal. Why is this development better than a community based alternative? Something that will benefit everyone in the area rather than a lucky few who manage to escape poverty? And what of the working class non-BME people in the area? What can we aspire to?


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## Geri (Jun 15, 2008)

Are the Burgess family behind building the flats as well then, or did they just sell the site and pocket the money?


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## Uhuru (Jun 15, 2008)

Response to JTG's last post:

OK then in the same vein neither were the objectors who all seemed to be objecting to the scheme on conservationist grounds.  None of the objectors tackled any of the social and economic issues of St Pauls.

I think what the 'community leaders' were saying was that without any form of economic empowerment then the BME community will always be at the bottom of the heap.  It is a fact that our community is the most economically disadvantaged and unless BME businesses are allowed to grow this will remain so.  We can no longer rely on being giving scraps by the middle classes who control our society.

I accept that this scheme in itself will not immediately result in a change but it will go some way to helping as it will have a knock-on effect by inspiring BME people to take risks and take on the establisment.  This was not the first battle I have watched them go through what with police raids, being called a 'place of evil' by our local comic and having to fight for a licence time and time again.

As for a community based project - I think this is unrealistic.  At a time when most of the agencies in St Pauls are having their funding cut it is a pipe-dream to think that anyone would fund such a project.  And more to the point the owners could not be expected to miss out on an opportunity such as this.  To force them to continue running an unprofitable business could not have been a way forward.  They provided proof that the property had been marketed but there were no takers. I don't know what alternatives you could suggest where they could still have made money which is what they do.  

As for working class non BME people in St Pauls and what is going to inspire you I am at a lost as to what to suggest right now and will give it some thought before coming back to you.


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## JTG (Jun 15, 2008)

I don't see how this will inspire people to take on the establishment other than by hopefully destroying what little remaining trust there is in our lords and masters and working for a society based on equality and mutual respect rather than the busted flush of trickle down economics.

If the council had any balls they'd take the initiative and seek better alternatives for the area rather than allowing it to be sold off wholesale to developers who are only interested in their profit margins. As far as Lakota's owners are concerned, nobody's forcing them to run an unprofitable business but neither is anyone forcing them to take any old offer regardless of the consequences.

I'd have more sympathy for Lakota's owners if they'd ever bothered to take some responsibility for the filth left round the streets I live on generated by their business.


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## Uhuru (Jun 15, 2008)

Well lets just agree that our views differ on the development of St Pauls and on the way regeneration is going to happen.  Lets just watch this development and others to see whether it has a beneficial or detrimental impact.

Do you think that the nightclubs in town have workers to clean up the mess left by clubbers in the surrounding streets.  Have you ever noticed that after each Friday and Saturday night the city centre gets thoroughly cleaned by the Council but St Pauls and Stokes Croft do not.  Perhaps it is not the owners of the club you should be blaming for the mess as they pay their business rates just like the city-centre clubs do.


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## JTG (Jun 15, 2008)

Regardless of who is legally responsible, there is a moral responsibility for the state of Upper York Street on a Saturday/Sunday morning imho and it wouldn't take much for the club to at least provide somewhere for the excess of beer cans and flyers to be dumped. Or even prevent the cans/bottles from being taken out of the club in the first place given that I doubt the licence is for consumption off the premises.

It's being good neighbours, I've cleared rubbish off the street myself some mornings because I have some regard for the area I live in.


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## Uhuru (Jun 15, 2008)

Good point.  There, we do agree on something.


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## JTG (Jun 15, 2008)




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## Geri (Jun 15, 2008)

Whatever happened to the Tropic club - did that shut down for good? I think the Burgess family owned that as well, didn't they - I remember Bentleigh Burgess working on the cloakroom.


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## JTG (Jun 15, 2008)

The old Club Loco? Shut down for good I think. May have had structural problems, can't remember


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## Geri (Jun 15, 2008)

Yeah, that's the one. I last went there in 1997, on my wedding night!


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## BlackArab (Jun 16, 2008)

tbh I was gutted when the Moon Club closed and was replaced by Lakota. 

People seem to forget the bullshit attitude that surrounded the club and some of those who ran it in the 90s which was (imo) a big factor in its demise. Am I the only one who remembers clubbers being pulled out of the queue by the clubs doorpickers because they weren't dressed cool enough or were wearing the 'wrong' shoes. 

I remember people complaining of nights ruined when one of their party was turned away for not passing the fashion test from the door nazis. Are we surprised if those people never went back and then passed on word of their experiences to their mates. The clubs being dying for years mate get used to it. 

So its going to become flats, great! Better to use an existing and underused building and than ploughing up more greenfield sites I say. As for community facilities, take a walk down Wilder St, St Pauls isn't exactly lacking in them. The Malcolm X Centre? The library/education centre? 

You would be better off channelling your anger at the wankers who have left the Old Carriage Works derelict for years or the council officials who refuse to do anything about the traffic light situation on Sussex Place. Both of these have caused a more negative environment for the people of St Pauls than the loss of a dancefloor ever will. 

As far you're pathetic comments about community leaders, perhaps you should get to know the community you are now amongst rather than slagging off their efforts eh. 

"In April 1963, the well-spoken Stephenson rang the Bristol Omnibus Company to fix up a job interview for a young man he knew. Guy Bailey, he explained, was a Boy's Brigade Officer, cricket club member, full-time warehouseman and part-time student. The company assured Stephenson that there were vacancies for someone of Bailey's qualifications. 

He then rang the Company back and mentioned that Bailey was a West Indian and the interview was promptly cancelled. Stephenson went to see the company's General Manager, Ian Patey, who affirmed that the company did indeed ban the employment of 'coloured labour' on the buses. With that admission, Stephenson went to the press and became the spokesperson for a picket and bus boycott."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/work/england/bristol/article_1.shtml


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## JTG (Jun 16, 2008)

with all due respect, I think I do know something about my community thanks

great, so he was involved in the Bristol bus boycott. I'm glad he was and I admire the stance he and others took

does that mean I have to bow to him on every issue that affects my neighbourhood? This development is less than 100 yards from my front door. Coming on top of all the other ones round here lately, which have without exception been aimed at young professionals rather than the working class families who have been forced to leave the area (yes I know of a few, especially in the Ashley Road), I reserve the right to object to it on the grounds that it fundamentally changes the character of the area and does not serve the needs of the people already living here.

please don't continue to lecture me on the social history of Bristol/St Pauls, it's patronising and has nothing to do with my views on this subject


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## Uhuru (Jun 16, 2008)

JTG said:


> it's days like today I think kindly of the crack dealers and their noisy clients outside and hope they put the yuppies off from moving in.
> 
> the support for this from self appointed community 'leaders' pisses me off more than the decision itself. they claim to know what's best for St Pauls yet still believe that posh flats and coffee shops will help alleviate poverty and lack of opportunity? when the fuck do these people start thinking things through?
> 
> we need to address the needs of people here, not property developers.



It was this statement which caused both me and Black Arab to react and in fact led to me making the effort to join this forum.  You say you want a society based on equality and mutual respect so you have to understand that Paul Stephenson and Guy Reid-Bailey are extremely respected as they have done and still continue to do so much for our community.  No-one is asking you to bow to them but to call them 'self appointed community leaders'  was a bit rude and made you appear as if you needed a lecture.


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## Geri (Jun 16, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> tbh I was gutted when the Moon Club closed and was replaced by Lakota.
> 
> People seem to forget the bullshit attitude that surrounded the club and some of those who ran it in the 90s which was (imo) a big factor in its demise. Am I the only one who remembers clubbers being pulled out of the queue by the clubs doorpickers because they weren't dressed cool enough or were wearing the 'wrong' shoes.
> [/url]



I much preferred the Moon Club as well, more of an indie type club than Lakota, which appealed to the dance music crowd.

I do remember the door policy - you were pretty much guaranteed to get in if you were a woman, but they were a lot more picky with men and generally you had to fit into the look of the type of person they wanted in there.

Obviously they were a lot less choosy towards the end when it was half empty.


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## Gerry1time (Jun 16, 2008)

Not sure if i'm following this here. One of the justifications for selling off the Lakota is that seeing the club's owners make money from doing so will be an inspiration to the local BME community? Who will as a result of being inspired do what exactly? Mildly plausible theory, but is there any evidence for similar developments having such an effect?

Not being cynical, but used to work at the council in a policy sort of area, and this seems oddly like developers playing to the council's obsessions - diversity, ethnicity and equality - in order to get a development approved. 

How exactly can they ensure the developers stick to a 'diversity policy' once the new development's open anyway?


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## JTG (Jun 16, 2008)

Uhuru said:


> It was this statement which caused both me and Black Arab to react and in fact led to me making the effort to join this forum.  You say you want a society based on equality and mutual respect so you have to understand that Paul Stephenson and Guy Reid-Bailey are extremely respected as they have done and still continue to do so much for our community.  No-one is asking you to bow to them but to call them 'self appointed community leaders'  was a bit rude and made you appear as if you needed a lecture.



Sorry, this is again extremely patronising. Nobody 'needs' a lecture, that makes you sound like a superior idiot, which I'm sure you're not.

tbh BlackArab's guff last night seemed to be a reaction to one thing rather than a consideration of everything said since.

So, building flats people can't afford - useful or utterly pointless and counter productive?


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## JTG (Jun 16, 2008)

Gerry1time said:


> Not sure if i'm following this here. One of the justifications for selling off the Lakota is that seeing the club's owners make money from doing so will be an inspiration to the local BME community? Who will as a result of being inspired do what exactly? Mildly plausible theory, but is there any evidence for similar developments having such an effect?
> 
> Not being cynical, but used to work at the council in a policy sort of area, and this seems oddly like developers playing to the council's obsessions - diversity, ethnicity and equality - in order to get a development approved.
> 
> How exactly can they ensure the developers stick to a 'diversity policy' once the new development's open anyway?



Spot on


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## JTG (Jun 16, 2008)

I've been told that this 'diversity policy' means that the developers have to employ some local people in the building of the things.

Great. So you can build it if you're black but live in the area once it's done? No chance.


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## Uhuru (Jun 16, 2008)

JTG said:


> Spot on



Response to Gerry1times last post:  My understanding is that this is the largest Black led property project there has ever been in Bristol and so there has been no similar development with which to compare it.  This is why attended the hearing and why it may inspire other BME businesses.

I think you are being cynical.  The Burgess family have always employed a significant amount of BME people at all levels in their business and I am sure will continue to do so which is the reason the COBG and Paul Stephenson got behind what they were planning to do.


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## Gerry1time (Jun 16, 2008)

Uhuru said:


> My understanding is that this is the largest Black led property project there has ever been in Bristol.  This is why attended the hearing and why it may inspire other BME businesses.



If it does inspire local people to do well, then that of course is a good thing. If this inspiration was used as a major justification for it, then i think that's a bit more dubious, unless actual proof can be found that this has happened elsewhere. Why another part of Bristol's history had to be demolished to achieve any of this i don't know. 

Traditionally there's more developer gain in demolishing and rebuilding i suppose, which BME company has been chosen to undertake the demolition and rebuilding work?

Also not sure why the council has to keep on judging people by the colour of their skin, or seeing St Paul's as an exclusively BME community, rather than a genuinely multicultural one, but that's a bigger issue.


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## Uhuru (Jun 16, 2008)

JTG said:


> I've been told that this 'diversity policy' means that the developers have to employ some local people in the building of the things.
> 
> Great. So you can build it if you're black but live in the area once it's done? No chance.



I think you are assuming that black people can't get mortgages or buy property.  There are plenty of us who can and who choose to live in St Pauls.


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## Uhuru (Jun 16, 2008)

Gerry1time said:


> If it does inspire local people to do well, then that of course is a good thing. If this inspiration was used as a major justification for it, then i think that's a bit more dubious, unless actual proof can be found that this has happened elsewhere. Why another part of Bristol's history had to be demolished to achieve any of this i don't know.
> 
> Traditionally there's more developer gain in demolishing and rebuilding i suppose, which BME company has been chosen to undertake the demolition and rebuilding work?
> 
> Also not sure why the council has to keep on judging people by the colour of their skin, or seeing St Paul's as an exclusively BME community, rather than a genuinely multicultural one, but that's a bigger issue.



The main justification for it at the hearing was that the owners did not wish to continue running a club and had put the property on the market for a long time with nobody coming to forward to buy it.  This made them investigate developing it and they opted to demolish as it was not viable to refurbish it owing to the fact that the building was too deep with no natural light.  At the first hearing this caused an argument and the council had to get an independent person to check whether their argument was justified and this person came back and agreed that to restore it was unviable.  

All of the other arguments were ancillary to this main argument.


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## BlackArab (Jun 18, 2008)

JTG said:


> with all due respect, I think I do know something about my community thanks
> 
> great, so he was involved in the Bristol bus boycott. I'm glad he was and I admire the stance he and others took
> 
> ...



Is anybody asking you to bow down. 

On your second point you may wish to look more closely at the new developments on Ashley Road seeing as you've brought them up. They are being offered on a shared ownership precisely so the working class and young professionals from the St Pauls community can take advantage. 

But of course you evidently don't see young professionals as actually being from the area. Do you realise that is *exactly* the same mindset that used to be quite common amongst the Police and lead to people from ethnic minorities being accused of stealing their own cars because they happened to be driving BMWs or Mercs.


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## BlackArab (Jun 18, 2008)

Geri said:


> I much preferred the Moon Club as well, more of an indie type club than Lakota, which appealed to the dance music crowd.
> 
> I do remember the door policy - you were pretty much guaranteed to get in if you were a woman, but they were a lot more picky with men and generally you had to fit into the look of the type of person they wanted in there.
> 
> Obviously they were a lot less choosy towards the end when it was half empty.



I have some great memories of the Moon Club and then heading off to a party afterwards at St Lukes Rd or somewhere else. Never forget one night when the DJ playing the same tune back to back (Unique 3 - The Theme) at the end and the security cut the power only for the whole dancefloor to start singing the tune and refusing to stop dancing. They eventually said fuck it and let him play the tune one more time. 

Happy Days


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## BlackArab (Jun 18, 2008)

Uhuru said:


> I think you are assuming that black people can't get mortgages or buy property.  There are plenty of us who can and who choose to live in St Pauls.



I second that. Moving back into St Pauls next month and hoping to buy there in the next year.


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## pno (Jun 24, 2008)

Depot openin back up would be wicked!


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## Geri (Jun 24, 2008)

Yes, i used to like the Depot. Loads of different places to chill out - I used to spend most of the time in the very top room with the snooker tables and large TVs.


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## Isambard (Jun 24, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> But of course you evidently don't see young professionals as actually being from the area. Do you realise that is *exactly* the same mindset that used to be quite common amongst the Police and lead to people from ethnic minorities being accused of stealing their own cars because they happened to be driving BMWs or Mercs.



Perhaps people swanning around in flash cars or in flash bars isn't welcomed by other residents, whatever their ethnic background?

I can't speak for St Pauls but from my experience of the area where I live, I'd say that the number of long term residents who "make it good" is small and their wealth does not "trickle down" to other local residents.

Medium term, the idea is to remove low to median income households from such areas, re-locate them further out. Generally destroy the availability of cheap housing stock by rennovation and re-build and attract median to high income households.

The fact that the Lakota deal got shoved through some Bristol City Council <cough> independent investigation means jack. It was a juicy development cherry that local posters such as JTG had long predicted was gonna get plucked.


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## BlackArab (Jun 25, 2008)

Isambard said:


> Perhaps people swanning around in flash cars or in flash bars isn't welcomed by other residents, whatever their ethnic background?
> 
> I can't speak for St Pauls but from my experience of the area where I live, I'd say that the number of long term residents who "make it good" is small and their wealth does not "trickle down" to other local residents.
> 
> ...



The only flash car drivers not welcomed are the Yardies in my experience of St Pauls. Aspirational encouragement and not class envy is more the norm certainly for those in St Pauls from ethnic minority backgrounds. 

I'm not a big believer in trickle down economics myself but I do strongly believe that having positive and aspirational role models within a community llike St Pauls does make a large difference. As a child in St Pauls in the 70s/80s I very rarely encountered successful professional people from my ethnic background, I'm fucking glad that those days are over. I saw far too many of my generation persuaded that the only route to a flash car was in selling drugs to the white man. 

No you can't speak for St Pauls, what happens in your area is a completely different situation and I can't see why you need to drag it in to this. There is already thriving community associations/groups working to see and supervise regeneration in St Pauls, do you discount their views because you disagree with them? 

You're medium term plans bear no reflection to what's happening here.


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## jusali (Jun 25, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> I have some great memories of the Moon Club and then heading off to a party afterwards at St Lukes Rd or somewhere else. Never forget one night when the DJ playing the same tune back to back (*Unique 3 - The Theme*) at the end and the security cut the power only for the whole dancefloor to start singing the tune and refusing to stop dancing. They eventually said fuck it and let him play the tune one more time.
> 
> Happy Days



(reminiscent mode) I remember this being played in Zena's when I was back in Plymouth one of my all time top tunes!(/reminiscent mode) 
As you were!


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## Isambard (Jun 26, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> No you can't speak for St Pauls, what happens in your area is a completely different situation



Neither can you speak for St Pauls. Not alone; there are other long term residents with other opinions. 
You might well be able to shout them down at the Council House, but not here.

I'm not speaking for St Pauls, but for dozens and dozens of inner city areas that are having the heart torn out of them for profit. Round here I'm seeing low priced housing AND traditional social venues falling under the gentrification hammer, on my street and the next. The biggest losers are the poorest residents, often with migrant backrounds.

Please forgive me for not going down the street going "whoop" with the council - or you in your BMW.


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## tom_craggs (Jun 26, 2008)

I have a few happy memories from Lokota, mid to late 90's - really liked the way the club was set up inside. That the powerhouse, blue mountain, the depot - used to go regularly. However I do remember when Lokota was in the magazines as being Bristol's 'super club' and I do remember having problems with the dress code and stuff...

I don't spend enough time in St. Pauls anymore to comment on how deteriomental or not the development will be to the communities in the area, but it certainly marks the passing of an important place in my personal life in Bristol.


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## BlackArab (Jun 27, 2008)

Isambard said:


> Neither can you speak for St Pauls. Not alone; there are other long term residents with other opinions.
> You might well be able to shout them down at the Council House, but not here.
> 
> I'm not speaking for St Pauls, but for dozens and dozens of inner city areas that are having the heart torn out of them for profit. Round here I'm seeing low priced housing AND traditional social venues falling under the gentrification hammer, on my street and the next. The biggest losers are the poorest residents, often with migrant backrounds.
> ...



Your reply is laughable, when did I claim to have the only opinion? There really was no need to point out the fact about long term residents, I had already mentioned the community associations/groups within St Pauls but I guess its easier for you to ignore the facts or the question. 

Instead you choose to come out with hysterical bullshit about me shouting down people at the Council House and driving a BMW, get a grip ffs, is a mature discussion about the facts beyond you? 

You seem to have real issues with the idea of aspirational black people don't you, why is that?


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## BlackArab (Jun 27, 2008)

jusali said:


> (reminiscent mode) I remember this being played in Zena's when I was back in Plymouth one of my all time top tunes!(/reminiscent mode)
> As you were!


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## Isambard (Jun 27, 2008)

I've no problem with minorities being succesful. Being an immigrant myself like.

I have a problem with gentrification in inner city areas like the one I've lived in a fair while.
And I will not bend over and accept that gentrification is a good thing becasue a few Black men and women are on the gravy train.


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## BlackArab (Jun 27, 2008)

Isambard said:


> I've no problem with minorities being succesful. Being an immigrant myself like.
> 
> I have a problem with gentrification in inner city areas like the one I've lived in a fair while.
> And I will not bend over and accept that gentrification is a good thing becasue a few Black men and women are on the gravy train.



wtf? You clearly have no idea do you? Is the renovation of houses and making them available for purchase by local residents on low incomes count as gentrification? What about the replacing of a crack den with social housing? The plans for increasing the supply of badly needed family sized social housing? 

If anything was gentrified it was Lakota 15 years ago when it became an exclusive superclub for the beautiful people, as already stated by myself and other posters but that you would see preserved, how ironic. The fact is that business failed and now the owners wish to change its use to recoup some of their continuing losses, its as simple as that and is not that unusual is it. You might have noticed this happening before or maybe its only a problem for you when Black people are involved eh.


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## Uhuru (Jun 27, 2008)

BlackArab said:


>




Classic, love it


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## djbombscare (Jun 30, 2008)

Well they did it to the Hacienda. 

Lakota is probably the closest thing Bristol has to that. Its no real suprise. 

Ok the builidng might have been even more historical than just clubland history. But in its current guise to the local old farts in there Wetburbia on curtain twitcher its a symbol of rave culture, drug taking, loud music people being sick and all that is bad with supposed youth/music culture for nigh on the last 15-20 years if not more. You dont get that sort of thing down the constituional. 

OK it gets a bit rowdy when they let the laidies darts team in from legion but they wear trousers and sensible shoes.

Fuck em. They can tear down the buildings and we'll go back underground. 

They fucking made these places. We were happy in woods fields and wharhouses enjoying ourselves on good drugs. The Criminal justice act made it go mainstream, cos they thought they could contain and control it. 

Instead rather then a load of happy people enjoying themselves on good drugs in nice places. You got clubland cashing in ripping people of with shit drugs. All of course washed down with alcohol.

Some 15-16 years on ? We've got binge drinking shitty shitty drugs, people getting shot and stabbed in clubs.. Some of the reasons almost 20 years ago small bands of people decided they were going to do there own parties and not follow the shiny shirt and trouser pisshead route down to the Ritzy for beered up fighting in a controlled and authority regulated environment. 

It will move on, there will be new Lakota's and Haciendas for the next generations. But just as the tearing down of the local picture house for my parents was a major crime, its was one of there icons of good times out.These are ours. They call it progress and we cant see it now but in ten years time those 8 year olds blating that min-motorbike wont give a shit, just as we dont that if we want to go to the cinema we have to go to some showcase place out of town.

Its sad but lifes moving on mate. It dont matter who you vote or dont vote for. 

Yesterdays history, tomorrow's a mystery, its how you live the now that counts


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## djbombscare (Jun 30, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> Is the renovation of houses and making them available for purchase by local residents on low incomes count as gentrification?



Where we live in Bristol they just put up a load of affordable housing for purchase by local people.

What it actually transpired into was it was affordable housing for property developers/landlords to snap up and rent out to locals at stupid money. I counted 43 to Let boards outside the week after they completed them. 

Nice


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## Gerry1time (Jun 30, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> it became an exclusive superclub for the beautiful people



Lakota was a what now? 

Anyway, surely if it had been, why couldn't the owners run it as a profitable business then?

Can we please lose this obsession with st paul's community groups and their representativeness too, i lived there for a few years and heard sod all from any representative group at any point, least of all any asking me what my views on local matters were.


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## JTG (Jun 30, 2008)

Black Arab, I'll debate with you when you've stopped insinuating that me and Isambard have some sort of problem with black people you vile wanker.


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## JTG (Jun 30, 2008)

Gerry1time said:


> Can we please lose this obsession with st paul's community groups and their representativeness too, i lived there for a few years and heard sod all from any representative group at any point, least of all any asking me what my views on local matters were.



Absolutely


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## BlackArab (Jul 2, 2008)

JTG said:


> Black Arab, I'll debate with you when you've stopped insinuating that me and Isambard have some sort of problem with black people you vile wanker.



My debate with seemed to have stopped two weeks ago, do keep up child


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## JTG (Jul 2, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> But of course you evidently don't see young professionals as actually being from the area. Do you realise that is *exactly* the same mindset that used to be quite common amongst the Police and lead to people from ethnic minorities being accused of stealing their own cars because they happened to be driving BMWs or Mercs.





BlackArab said:


> You seem to have real issues with the idea of aspirational black people don't you, why is that?





BlackArab said:


> You might have noticed this happening before or maybe its only a problem for you when Black people are involved eh.



BlackArab, the accusations and insinuations you're flinging around in the quotes above are utterly disgusting. Apologise to both of us please.

I don't think I'm the one being childish, resorting to implying people are racists just because we disagree with your view is really, really low.


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## BlackArab (Jul 2, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> Well they did it to the Hacienda.
> 
> Lakota is probably the closest thing Bristol has to that. Its no real suprise.
> 
> ...



Top post!


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## JTG (Jul 2, 2008)

except bombscare misses my point that I'm concerned about my community rather than my nights out.

apologise please Mr Arab


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## JTG (Jul 2, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> Where we live in Bristol they just put up a load of affordable housing for purchase by local people.
> 
> What it actually transpired into was it was affordable housing for property developers/landlords to snap up and rent out to locals at stupid money. I counted 43 to Let boards outside the week after they completed them.
> 
> Nice



This is the real effect of new developments which aren't council or housing association owned.

I suspect saying this makes me a racist as well


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## BlackArab (Jul 2, 2008)

Gerry1time said:


> Lakota was a what now?
> 
> Anyway, surely if it had been, why couldn't the owners run it as a profitable business then?
> 
> Can we please lose this obsession with st paul's community groups and their representativeness too, i lived there for a few years and heard sod all from any representative group at any point, least of all any asking me what my views on local matters were.



I've already mentioned this. Lakota in the mid 90s went for the glam/house/superclub market in a big way. Fair enough but a shitty attitude developed around it including door pickers telling people they couldn't go in because they werent wearing the right type of clothes or hadn't made enough effort. How would you have felt if you arrived for a night out and were pulled out of a queue by some wanker laughing at your choice of footwear and telling you to go home?

Seriously, would you go back in a hurry?

This elitist attitude is just one factor in its demise but a significant one imo as quite simply, a lot of people stopped going. Also you have to factor in that clubbers don't travel into Bristol from Cardiff, Swindon or further afield as much as they used to when Lakota was in its heyday. 

re: community groups, my 'obsession' as you put it  comes from a genuine concern about area I grew up in. When I see local community activists from the area working to improve their own enviroment, I'm proud, when their efforts are belittled I will defend them, its that simple. To often the work that goes on by activists at grassroots level is marginalised or unseen while the local authorities and politicos take the credit. 

If you're genuinely interested in knowing more you can find it here. They've recently been advertising for more people to join. http://www.stpaulsunlimited.org.uk/


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## BlackArab (Jul 2, 2008)

JTG said:


> except bombscare misses my point that I'm concerned about my community rather than my nights out.
> 
> apologise please Mr Arab



Bombscare doesn't miss your point, he has his own opinion, one I think is totally valid. Are you so arrogant that you cannot comprehend that others may see things from a different angle than you?


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## BlackArab (Jul 3, 2008)

JTG said:


> BlackArab, the accusations and insinuations you're flinging around in the quotes above are utterly disgusting. Apologise to both of us please.
> 
> I don't think I'm the one being childish, resorting to implying people are racists just because we disagree with your view is really, really low.



Actually I don't think that you deliberately intended to be racist with your comments but I still found them offensive as a Black person. Just thought I would clarify that.


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## JTG (Jul 3, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> Bombscare doesn't miss your point, he has his own opinion, one I think is totally valid. Are you so arrogant that you cannot comprehend that others may see things from a different angle than you?



Well he made a long post about the way in which the loss of Lakota as a nightclub would (or wouldn't) impact on my life. Which isn't my concern at all so I think he did miss my point slightly, yes.



BlackArab said:


> Actually I don't think that you deliberately intended to be racist with your comments but I still found them offensive as a Black person. Just thought I would clarify that.



I wasn't racist at all actually, there was nothing to be offended by unless you were trying really hard to read something that wasn't there. Same goes for Isambard as well so apologise to him also please. My concern is for working class people in St Pauls rather than 'young professionals', black or otherwise. I don't care whether those young professionals are local or otherwise, I care more about the single parents etc I know who were evicted from their homes and community to make way for this development on Ashley Road you think is so wonderful.


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## Gerry1time (Jul 3, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> If you're genuinely interested in knowing more you can find it here. They've recently been advertising for more people to join. http://www.stpaulsunlimited.org.uk/



That's more like it, first time i've ever seen anyone promote the opportunity to get involved in these community groups. 

They still seem to be pigeon holing a set of reps by their age or skin colour, which is a shame, but JTG, you should stand for election man! We could get an urban crew out canvassing door to door...


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## kalidarkone (Jul 3, 2008)

JTG said:


> Well he made a long post about the way in which the loss of Lakota as a nightclub would (or wouldn't) impact on my life. Which isn't my concern at all so I think he did miss my point slightly, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't racist at all actually, there was nothing to be offended by unless you were trying really hard to read something that wasn't there. Same goes for Isambard as well so apologise to him also please. My concern is for working class people in St Pauls rather than 'young professionals', black or otherwise. I don't care whether those young professionals are local or otherwise, I care more about the single parents etc I know who were evicted from their homes and community to make way for this development on Ashley Road you think is so wonderful.



I dont think it is for you to say what should or should not offend other people. Just cos you dont intend to be offensive does not mean offence will not be taken, maybe it would more helpful to understand why.

Young professionals can be working class cant they?

Wont the development at Lakota mean that a percentage of the housing will be Social housing? If so then that will be more social housing then if Lakota remains surely?


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## JTG (Jul 3, 2008)

kalidarkone said:


> I dont think it is for you to say what should or should not offend other people. Just cos you dont intend to be offensive does not mean offence will not be taken, maybe it would more helpful to understand why.



I understand why perfectly well, he's elected to misinterpret prqactically every argument I've put forward on here.

Not my problem if he wants to do that really.


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## BlackArab (Jul 3, 2008)

JTG said:


> Well he made a long post about the way in which the loss of Lakota as a nightclub would (or wouldn't) impact on my life. Which isn't my concern at all so I think he did miss my point slightly, yes.
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't racist at all actually, there was nothing to be offended by unless you were trying really hard to read something that wasn't there. Same goes for Isambard as well so apologise to him also please. My concern is for working class people in St Pauls rather than 'young professionals', black or otherwise. I don't care whether those young professionals are local or otherwise, I care more about the single parents etc I know who were evicted from their homes and community to make way for this development on Ashley Road you think is so wonderful.



Do you have evidence of this?


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## BlackArab (Jul 3, 2008)

Gerry1time said:


> That's more like it, first time i've ever seen anyone promote the opportunity to get involved in these community groups.
> 
> They still seem to be pigeon holing a set of reps by their age or skin colour, which is a shame, but JTG, you should stand for election man! We could get an urban crew out canvassing door to door...



I thought you were joking as I've seen their literature and posters all over the area. I'm glad you're interested, I'm hoping to get involved some way myself and they were saying they needed people to deliver leaflets. You've proved that right.


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## BlackArab (Jul 3, 2008)

JTG said:


> I understand why perfectly well, he's elected to misinterpret prqactically every argument I've put forward on here.
> 
> Not my problem if he wants to do that really.



I've understand your arguments perfectly, I just don't agree with all of them. It's you who appears to be misinterpreting me if you feel that I in some way apologised to you earlier. I admire the passion in your concerns but your arrogance is breathtaking.


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## JTG (Jul 3, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> Do you have evidence of this?



Evidence of what?



BlackArab said:


> I've understand your arguments perfectly, I just don't agree with all of them. It's you who appears to be misinterpreting me if you feel that I in some way apologised to you earlier. I admire the passion in your concerns but your arrogance is breathtaking.



No, you haven't. You made some extraordinary leaps of logic to take offence at something I never even came close to saying and then you can't see why I'm massively offended at your implications that myself and Isambard are being even slightly racist/offensive.

As for arrogant - don't be so silly


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## BlackArab (Jul 3, 2008)

JTG said:


> Evidence of what?



The evictions. Seriously, I'm interested.


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## JTG (Jul 3, 2008)

friend of a friend, was a tenant there. when the time came to redevelop they were moved elsewhere - she was offered a smaller flat, in clifton (so away from her friends & neighbours) with inadequate access for her child's pram and nowhere near enough space for herself and two children. that's what happens when the HA decide they can make more money by redveloping their properties into more marketable ones rather than looking after the interests of the people already living there.

I'm also deeply suspicious of this part ownership thing - I couldn't afford to do it even if I wanted to and I suspect I'm better off than many people in my block/street. I'm struggling to see how it benefits local people at all tbh.


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## BlackArab (Jul 3, 2008)

JTG said:


> friend of a friend, was a tenant there. when the time came to redevelop they were moved elsewhere - she was offered a smaller flat, in clifton (so away from her friends & neighbours) with inadequate access for her child's pram and nowhere near enough space for herself and two children. that's what happens when the HA decide they can make more money by redveloping their properties into more marketable ones rather than looking after the interests of the people already living there.
> 
> I'm also deeply suspicious of this part ownership thing - I couldn't afford to do it even if I wanted to and I suspect I'm better off than many people in my block/street. I'm struggling to see how it benefits local people at all tbh.



Terrible I hadn't heard anything like that. 

The part owner thing from what I know from others who've done it is actually a pretty good scheme. I've had my suspicions in the past myself but it seems ok and is probably the only option for a lot of people on low incomes right now. The Ashley rd one says that you can join if you're on income of 15kish, the exact figure's on the hoardings. Obviously some people aren't going to be earning that but below that I don't think you'd really be realistically thinking about the property market. 

I do like the fact that they are prioritising the locals to avoid profiteering from outsiders

_APPLICANT PRIORITY 

The following list indicates the priority levels given to prospective purchasers at Shaftesbury Terrace:

1. Applicants already living in the defined St Pauls Regeneration Area.
2. Applicants having family links with this area.
3. Applicants working in this area.

Applicants within these criteria will then be further prioritised depending on the following:

1. Current Housing Need – (Bristol City Council Housing Register banding)*
2. Time resident in the St Pauls Regeneration Area. _

http://www.placesforpeople.co.uk/sales/centre/index.aspx?v=2&d=177

tbh I can't think of many schemes which couldn't be abused if someone really tried their best but hopefully the criteria and checks would prevent that here. The Housing Assoc's seem to have learnt well about working with the locals from the Grosvenor scheme. There's a good report here: http://www.southwesthousing.co.uk/pdfs/SWHI BP Knightstone St Pauls Bristol.pdf - you might recognise the tenant!


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## djbombscare (Jul 4, 2008)

JTG said:


> friend of a friend, was a tenant there. when the time came to redevelop they were moved elsewhere - she was offered a smaller flat, in clifton (so away from her friends & neighbours) with inadequate access for her child's pram and nowhere near enough space for herself and two children. that's what happens when the HA decide they can make more money by redveloping their properties into more marketable ones rather than looking after the interests of the people already living there.
> 
> I'm also deeply suspicious of this part ownership thing - I couldn't afford to do it even if I wanted to and I suspect I'm better off than many people in my block/street. I'm struggling to see how it benefits local people at all tbh.



They are moving quite a few people out to our neck of the woods. Without it getting racist, There has been a rise in the population of ethnic minorities in what is a predomiantly white Council estate. So Chavtown to the middle classes. And this mix is not going down to well.

There are suspicous looks, pointing fingers and any trouble is blamed on the opposite parties. Its very tense theres a lot of hatred. The fact that they built some new HA boxes on an old garage and then moved non white locals in isn't helping. Its brewing and the council dont give a shit.

You can say I missed the point but I didnt really. My point is that one redeveloped area at some point was developed with a specific usage in mind. Times move on. And as trends change so do areas. The council dont care about this if its not raising money via tourism or a positive part of something bigger they dont care.

As a result communities change. Be it gentrified or not. OK so St Pauls is going up market with posh knobhead flats that no-one will be able to afford anyway. _part ownership is bollox as well. I lloked into it.I can buy a new house 100% owned same estate for 190k. If I went down the part ownership HA route I can buy a 50% share in a property for 130k same size same estate same house. Its bollox. _

A club that they can make 1000 flats out of means 1000 more taxpayers working to pay more tax in the local area. Who give a fuck about all the ones that cant pay.

Lack of parking and non upgraded transportation links will probably mean the ponceyness dies a death in 20-30 years anyway and it gets redeveloped again. The circle completes and someoen esle moans abot them fucking up another community.

The community isnt dying its just being broken up and moved on As a result it changes the dynamics of other communites as well. Its both positive and negative. Things change people move on etc. Commuinties are not a cast in stone environments, look at our Urban Community here, it changes daily for good or bad

What you call gentrification of St Pauls is just bring new people into the community changing it dynamics. Is that as a bad thing? 

If I turned round and said the influx of Ethnic minorites into South Bristol was a bad thing then I could be deemed to be racist. So why is what your saying different. Because ieveryone thinsk its will be middle class people moving in. 

The communties are chaning in South Bristol too. Another area that has been redeveolped and was built for workers in the cigerette factory. They've torn shit loads of it down. Moved loads of people out are planning on ploughing swathes of it up with a raod so that Poshies form Bath can get to the airpot 30 second faster yada yada yada. The only difference is that South bristol is White council. . .Chavsville.

So where's the they're killing our community where's the they're dozing our swimming pool, our communites being ruined. . .

there is none because. . no-one gives a shit.

no-one would listen to us out here anyway.


look my point is and so that I dont get accused of missing the point is. Things change, Dynamics change. Desires, trends demands usage Everything. Its the nature of the way society evolves. Ok when you have money and can afford to live somewhere like Westposhbury things stay the same because they can afford to be. Money buys you securtiy similarity milk on the doorstep, bins collected regulalry and the post arriving before breakfast. 

When your a scrote at the bottom. they have to maximise space pack em in and move with the times. It sucks you have to make do, and if you aint special you aint getting any special treatment. Its nothing new it happened in Brixton in the 80's its now your turn. I saw the council move those they didnt care about out into the council estates I lived on. And I'm seeing them do it again now. Out of sight out of mind. 

Dont see it as a negative see it as positive for the community bringing in diversity and new dynamics. 

The world and soceity evolves, survival of the fittest means you either evolve with it or better make sure you have enough cash so that you can hole up close the door and ignore it... or at least watch it happen on TV.

I know its all bollox. But look at it like this if the above is to much. Asking yourself things like

How many people in your community do you know the first names of?
If you didnt see someone in your street for a couple of days would you know?
Would you be worried enough to go round there house and see if they were ok.
Do you know where they live ?
Does it take you 20 minutes to go to the bin etc?

to me that stort of stuff will show how AWARE of the people that make up your community you are and how the movement of people out of it affects the dynamics of your environment. And that its not just getting caught up in the moment.

Another long boring post that goes nowhere I know


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## JTG (Jul 4, 2008)

I'm aware things change, my issue is that things always change to the benefit of the moneyed classes and nobody else - as you say, these things are built and end up being rented out by multiple home owners rather than as secure accommodation for the less well off.

You may say that's the way things happen but if nobody fights this then they get it all their own way. We should at least try and pull them back our way a little.

Change is good - depending on the type of change. I just want to know that the people with least get considered a little more and I don't see that happening.


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## Geri (Jul 4, 2008)

djbombscare said:


> T
> A club that they can make 1000 flats out of means 1000 more taxpayers working to pay more tax in the local area. Who give a fuck about all the ones that cant pay.



A thousand flats! How big do you think Lakota was? 

Plus, the people who move in are likely to be paying tax already, unless they are moving in from abroad.


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## Gerry1time (Jul 5, 2008)

BlackArab said:


> I thought you were joking as I've seen their literature and posters all over the area. I'm glad you're interested, I'm hoping to get involved some way myself and they were saying they needed people to deliver leaflets. You've proved that right.



Damn man, the lib dems and labour deliver leaflets round st pauls, i think something more than that is needed for a group claiming to be actually representative of the community! 

Are they really saying that they haven't even been doing that yet? And yet they still claim to speak for 'local residents'. 

Lordy.


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## djbombscare (Jul 5, 2008)

Geri said:


> A thousand flats! How big do you think Lakota was?
> 
> Plus, the people who move in are likely to be paying tax already, unless they are moving in from abroad.



It was only a tongue in cheek number really BUT They've just put 12, 2 bedroom houses, on the site of a old garage floorcourt at the end of our road. 1000 flats in lakota will be no probelm if they wanted to 

Yes the people that will be moving in will be paying tax already. If they then have to purchase the houses rather than rent they'll be working little taxpayers bringing money into the area from perhaps other places outside of Brizzle. They wont even have to walk that far with their Fendi handbags and blankety blanc shoes to spend money in our wonderful new Harvey Nicks. Absolutley luvleee.

Mr A the drug baron Mr B and his pimptastic crew of Hookers aint paying tax. Those nto working aint so the eyes of the council they dont really matter.

There ya go that could be their plan, They got umpteen units they gotta shiift in the NEW Boradmead, and lets face Forbiiden planet, Mr Patels Shoe shop, his brother Newsagents and his Cousins Cheap Jeans place aint gonna afford the 4k a month rent. 

Harvey Nicks, Selfridges etc can. . .

I can just see the advertising campaign now. . .  

_A load of prostitutes pulling up there knickers and running across the road to Harvey Nicks to buy a handbag with fistful of crumpled tenners.

Then running back cos they wont spot them til next week and they aint got enough cash_

_The strap line_ "*Harvey Nicks Reasurringly Fucking Expensive*"


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## djbombscare (Jul 5, 2008)

JTG said:


> I'm aware things change, my issue is that things always change to the benefit of the moneyed classes and nobody else - as you say, these things are built and end up being rented out by multiple home owners rather than as secure accommodation for the less well off.
> 
> You may say that's the way things happen but if nobody fights this then they get it all their own way. We should at least try and pull them back our way a little.
> 
> Change is good - depending on the type of change. I just want to know that the people with least get considered a little more and I don't see that happening.



We dont, they wont and never will.

Money buys control, but not respect.

So my poiint is. Change is not always good, its not always bad either, its just inevitable.


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## BlackArab (Jul 5, 2008)

Gerry1time said:


> Damn man, the lib dems and labour deliver leaflets round st pauls, i think something more than that is needed for a group claiming to be actually representative of the community!
> 
> Are they really saying that they haven't even been doing that yet? And yet they still claim to speak for 'local residents'.
> 
> Lordy.



No they have been doing leafletting, they said they were looking for more volunteers to do so. Come on Gerry, you know that most community groups/ngo's etc at this level are always struggling for the resources they need ie manpower and money. You can't seriously judge them on that, this just shows how much you're input and others is needed!


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## fizzerbird (Jul 6, 2008)

JTG said:


> except bombscare misses my point that I'm concerned about my community rather than my nights out.
> 
> apologise please Mr Arab



I'm concerned about my nights out!!!


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## JTG (Jul 6, 2008)

We're all concerned about your nights out...


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## fizzerbird (Jul 6, 2008)

JTG said:


> We're all concerned about your nights out...





I'm thinking about buying a meadow...


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## fizzerbird (Jul 6, 2008)

Erm...did someone say the Depot was re-opening?! 




Oh how jolly delightful! I dooooo hope so!


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## Zaskar (Jul 10, 2008)

What a fuss- it was a crap club that ripped you all off for years.


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## Geri (Jul 10, 2008)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the point

Zaskar <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<


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## Zaskar (Jul 10, 2008)

Dont be obtuse - my point is quite clearly questioning the tribal affiliation to the bricks and mortar and capitalist motivations of the owners.

All I remember lakotas for is a modelling for liz lewitt there once ( honest) and them turing off taps and charging for water.

Good nights surely depend on who you are with, not in which club you are.


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## djbombscare (Jul 11, 2008)

I dont think I've ever been in a club that hasn't turned the taps off. . .


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## fizzerbird (Jul 11, 2008)

They have taps?


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## big eejit (Jul 14, 2008)

MOVE TO REPLACE BRISTOL NIGHTCLUB WITH FLATS REJECTED

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/disp...tentPK=21073700&folderPk=83726&pNodeId=144922


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