# Lazy public sector workers - they all knock off at 5pm!



## Brainaddict (Oct 4, 2011)

I've just seen this reported as an accusation against public sector workers and I've heard it before. Now I know it isn't completely true - there are plenty of public sector workers who don't finish work at their contracted time. But as an accusation what do you make of this? I mean, it only makes sense to me as jealousy, rather than as a rational thing to object to. But presumably some people feel it is a reasonable thing to object to.


----------



## gabi (Oct 4, 2011)

My hours in the public sector were 10am-5pm, altho we all used to leave a few mins early.

'twas a shock to the system having come from the private sector but i quickly grew used to it


----------



## weepiper (Oct 4, 2011)

yeah, those bastards, with their fair terms and conditions won by collective bargaining *shakes fist*


----------



## Me76 (Oct 4, 2011)

People stick to their contracted hours - bastards !


----------



## weltweit (Oct 4, 2011)

Can you imagine anyone on their deathbed saying - I wish I had spent a few more hours at work!!


----------



## discokermit (Oct 4, 2011)

i finish at four.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 4, 2011)

discokermit said:


> i finish at four.


That's outrageous. We should all be reduced to the level of those with the shittest working conditions. Otherwise it isn't fair.


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 4, 2011)

I wish! Started at 7 this morning, don't finish until 8pm


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 4, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> I wish! Started at 7 this morning, don't finish until 8pm


I bet you've got a fat pension you bastard!


----------



## marty21 (Oct 4, 2011)

I can leave at 4, usually at 5 though, on the fucking dot.


----------



## colacubes (Oct 4, 2011)

I should be so lucky.  I usually start between 9.30 and 10, have about 20 mins for lunch and then if I'm out the door at 6.30pm it's a good day.  I'll generally do about 4 hours over my contracted hours on a quiet week.


----------



## Brainaddict (Oct 4, 2011)

So those of you who do leave at 4 or 5, do you encounter resentment from people?


----------



## BarbedWire303 (Oct 4, 2011)

It's the media acting as the mouthpiece of the Government, yet again.

It's only a few years since the papers were writing about how e.g. nurses were underpaid, overworked, under-appreciated "angels"... now, of course, nurses are all fat, overpaid, lazy, uneducated, badly-trained, under-worked, bleeding the private sector's hard-earned pot dry, etc.

It's purely political point-scoring at its worst, and all it aims to do is divert our attention from the real causes of the financial crisis, which are nothing to do with how hard the public sector works or how much they get paid.

Besides, it's not like there aren't any lazy or overpaid private sector workers!



Brainaddict said:


> So those of you who do leave at 4 or 5, do you encounter resentment from people?



Not me. But if I did encounter resentment, I would reply that I work a variety of shifts, and sometimes I do leave before 4pm. However, if I told them that most of my shifts are 0715-2100, or 2030-0745, they would soon shut up


----------



## Thora (Oct 4, 2011)

I leave at 1.15pm, and not a minute later.


----------



## Geri (Oct 4, 2011)

I work in the private sector and I finish at 5 (or earlier). Very rarely stay late, unless my boss is giving me a lift home and I need to wait for him to finish.


----------



## weepiper (Oct 4, 2011)

I work in the private sector and finish at 5, and can't stay any later cos I've kids to pick up from two separate locations and if I did I wouldn't get to nursery before it shuts.


----------



## discokermit (Oct 4, 2011)

Brainaddict said:


> So those of you who do leave at 4 or 5, do you encounter resentment from people?


never. not once. four/four thirty are fairly normal finishing times in engineering.


----------



## janeb (Oct 4, 2011)

I am a manager in the public sector (so therefore doubly bad ) and am contracted to work 37 hours a week.  On a good week I'll work about 45 to 50 not including any time at the weekend.  I really try not to do weekend working but usually end up working 5 or 6 hours over the two days, sometimes more.  The only public sector staff who work their strict contracted hours where I am are our admin support team and they are generally in 9 - 5 which are the office 'opening hours'.  And fair play to them, that's what they get paid for and it's what their unions and them have fought for.


----------



## Voley (Oct 4, 2011)

I've never worked past 5 unless I'm getting overtime or TOIL for it. I've worked in the public sector and the private sector. I don't think management view working past five as a sign of a hard worker - I think they view it as a sign that you're a mug they can throw any old shit at.


----------



## janeb (Oct 4, 2011)

NVP said:


> I don't think management view working past five as a sign of a hard worker - I think they view it as a sign that you're a mug they can throw any old shit at.



There are lots of reasons why some people work excessive hours.  It can be a sign of incompetence as much as a sign of anything else. Or it can also a sign of dedicated and caring staff trying their hardest to put the needs of their service users first despite the consequences to themselves

Where I work we have had to reduce staff (admin and managers, not front-line practitioners so far) because of funding cuts, but our referral rates are increasing and our service users are vulnerable children and young people.  We are working with our practitioners to review the way they are working so we can share their resource and skills across more service users, which means for them to be overworked they can't do as much for all their service users as they want to - but they will still be safe.  Otherwise we get waiting lists for our services which has in the past meant that vulnerable children and young people get no service for 10+ weeks at a really critical time.

For lots of reasons that I totally understand and empathise with, some of our front=line staff want to carry on doing what they see as the 'proper' (ie old ways) of working so work the longer hours because of their own values and standards.  Actually try as we might to change their practices they themselves put this pressure on them and we see the consequences with increased stress levels and in some cases associated sickness absence, which of course then adds more pressure to the staff in work.

Not easy, never easy.  Not going to get any easier either


----------



## nagapie (Oct 4, 2011)

I leave at 4.15 every day because I have a child to pick up. A couple of my bitchy colleagues have passed comment on it a number of times when I'm not around. I work in a school so the culture is that if you're leaving before 5.30 you're a slacker.


----------



## Mr Smin (Oct 4, 2011)

I used to finish at 5 when I worked in the private sector, now I usually do the same in the public sector.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 4, 2011)

nagapie said:


> I leave at 4.15 every day because I have a child to pick up. A couple of my bitchy colleagues have passed comment on it a number of times when I'm not around. I work in a school so the culture is that if you're leaving before 5.30 you're a slacker.



Staff in a school don't like you going to pick up your kid?


----------



## Me76 (Oct 4, 2011)

I have worked in the private, public and third sector. I will work over my hours when crises have occurred that need to be resolved, during busy times of the year when it is expected (before a conference or at exams season) and when I choose to. 

I have had to work late when other people's incompetence, bad planning and communication, and excessive workloads have dictated. In these circumstances I will do my best to take the necessary steps to make sure it doesn't happen again. Normally, after a bit of work, it won't.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 4, 2011)

Leaving at 5:00 doesn't mean very much. I'm out of the blacking factory like a short, lardy rocket at 16:59 precisely. But then I'm on the phone to US colleagues while I walk the dog, say from 18:00 - 19:00, and then after bedtime I have an hour or so catching up on emails.

I suspect that's quite normal. It certainly is at the factory, as colleagues I email in the evening often reply by return. Wouldn't be surprised if state sector people work like this as well.

E2A: I mean the children's bedtime, by the way, not mine. I don't even get a story.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2011)

Im public sector and im doing 9am - 9pm. Although I get an hour for lunch and an hour for tea, I will be expected to, and will work through them.

I will also spend the day under the constant threat of being made redundant, fighting red tape, petit beaucracy, and a blame culture, all safe in the knowledge my pay scale has been frozen for the next 3 years, I could lose my decent pension, which isnt that decent cus im so shitly paid.

So yeah, lazy public sector workers etc etc


----------



## discokermit (Oct 4, 2011)

anybody who does unpaid overtime is a nob and a crawlarse.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Oct 4, 2011)

discokermit said:


> anybody who does unpaid overtime is a nob and a crawlarse.



Without even getting into the question of how grim it must be to dislike your work so much that you genuinely cannot conceive of people who care about their jobs enough to be flexible with their time, may I refer you to janeb's post above? Which are her colleagues, then? Nobs? Crawlarses?


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2011)

discokermit said:


> anybody who does unpaid overtime is a nob and a crawlarse.



Or maybe I like helping my students out


----------



## discokermit (Oct 4, 2011)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Without even getting into the question of how grim it must be to dislike your work so much that you genuinely cannot conceive of people who care about their jobs enough to be flexible with their time, may I refer you to janeb's post above? Which are her colleagues, then? Nobs? Crawlarses?


it's not about how grim it is or not. you do unpaid overtime, you fuck it up for everyone else. then it's expected and becomes the norm. then it increases as management realise they can get away with less staff. this means wages are driven down and unemployment increases.

eight people doing an hour unpaid every day are between them doing someone out of a job.

overtime is a bad thing. unpaid overtime is massively worse.


----------



## discokermit (Oct 4, 2011)

sim667 said:


> Or maybe I like helping my students out


but you're not. in the long term they will be affected by longer working hours and less money.

the only person you're helping is the employer.


----------



## sim667 (Oct 4, 2011)

discokermit said:


> but you're not. in the long term they will be affected by longer working hours and less money.
> 
> the only person you're helping is the employer.



If we didnt all do it, they would end up getting a half arsed education....... Its the forfeit I pay for having 10 weeks holiday a year I guess


----------



## discokermit (Oct 4, 2011)

sim667 said:


> If we didnt all do it, they would end up getting a half arsed education....... Its the forfeit I pay for having 10 weeks holiday a year I guess


no. as said before, unpaid overtime leads to understaffing, more stress, more absence, etc. which means a worse education.

if people refused then staffing levels would have to be addressed and students would be taught by people with more energy and less stress.


----------



## janeb (Oct 4, 2011)

discokermit said:


> it's not about how grim it is or not. you do unpaid overtime, you fuck it up for everyone else. then it's expected and becomes the norm. then it increases as management realise they can get away with less staff. this means wages are driven down and unemployment increases.
> 
> eight people doing an hour unpaid every day are between them doing someone out of a job.
> 
> overtime is a bad thing. unpaid overtime is massively worse.



You know I don't actually disagree in principle, of course I don't.

But the reality, and it is fucking grim, is that unless our staff change the way they work (so do a safe 'minimum' for each case rather than the old way of practicing which is what they are more comfortable doing) the only outcome we would have is not more staff but vulnerable service users without a service.  As managers we are doing everything we can to help them adjust the way they work but part of the problem is that other parts of the public sector that we interact with have also been cut so our staff are starting to try to fill the gaps by other agencies with then puts more pressure on then and so it goes on.

Before the current Gov't came in we could have, and would almost certainly have got, additional funding to help us deal with the 40%+ in our workload over the last 18 months.  Now, absolutely no chance at all, and as I say we have slashed 'backroom posts' left right and centre to try to protect our front-line - including possibly my own job as I'm about to be placed at risk due to a further restructure, this will be the 3rd time in 4 years (we anticipated the Tories by shedding some posts in advance to protect the front-line).

And if our work performance suffers, if we miss something with a service users, if we fail an inspection, if we miss our KPI's or if we get waiting lists building of course the Gov't will blame us, not the lack of funding for all of the above - which is why our only option is to change the way we work and as managers all we can do is do everything we can to support our staff in that, and then take the rap if things go wrong because of a reduction in the work we can do to 'safe minimum' rather than 'gold standard', not leave any of our staff out to dry.

Grrrr.  I really wish it was easy - if it was easy we would have done it by now, believe me.

Anyway, off to catch up with Great British Bake Off whilst resisting the sirens call of the blinking red light on my blackberry...


----------



## nagapie (Oct 4, 2011)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Staff in a school don't like you going to pick up your kid?



As documented in other threads, since last year I work with couple of particularly unpleasant people. However, the school culture is one that those of us who leave around 4ish to pick up our kids are frowned upon. Schools are notoriously shit about treating their staff well and being flexible.


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 4, 2011)

Brainaddict said:


> I bet you've got a fat pension you bastard!



LOL, I wish


----------



## Dr. Furface (Oct 4, 2011)

Making generalisations about 'the public sector' is as pointless and futile as doing the same with the 'private sector'


----------



## mentalchik (Oct 4, 2011)

sometimes i finish at 4, sometimes 3 and sometimes 7.30pm.....not everyone works 'office' hours anyhoo.......


----------



## Fedayn (Oct 4, 2011)

Brainaddict said:


> I've just seen this reported as an accusation against public sector workers and I've heard it before. Now I know it isn't completely true - there are plenty of public sector workers who don't finish work at their contracted time. But as an accusation what do you make of this? I mean, it only makes sense to me as jealousy, rather than as a rational thing to object to. But presumably some people feel it is a reasonable thing to object to.



I finish at 5pm usually 4 days a week. I finish early as I can Friday. However most Mondays-Thursdays whilst I finish at 5 I start at 7 in the morning..... Lazy bastard me


----------



## Athos (Oct 5, 2011)

This week, I'm expecting to work at least 45 hours overtime i.e. above and beyond my contacted hours. I will bank it as TOIL, though.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 5, 2011)

I hate the word "lazy" as an insult.  It's no bad thing to be lazy.  Lazy people have never created wars and banking crises.

Anyway, I'm in the private sector and I'm out the door at 16:54 pretty much every day, which I have to be in order to make my 17:24 train from Waterloo.  Three minutes later and I may as well wait until 17:24 and when that happens, it's pretty much equivalent to armageddon.


----------



## kabbes (Oct 5, 2011)

janeb said:


> You know I don't actually disagree in principle, of course I don't.
> 
> But the reality, and it is fucking grim, is that unless our staff change the way they work (so do a safe 'minimum' for each case rather than the old way of practicing which is what they are more comfortable doing) the only outcome we would have is not more staff but vulnerable service users without a service. As managers we are doing everything we can to help them adjust the way they work but part of the problem is that other parts of the public sector that we interact with have also been cut so our staff are starting to try to fill the gaps by other agencies with then puts more pressure on then and so it goes on.
> 
> ...


This is why I like working in an industry that I couldn't give a crap about.  I don't have any ethical quandaries about leaving vulnerable people without services.  If I refuse to do another hour's work, it just means people don't get a report quite as quickly as they otherwise would.  I weep for them, I really do.


----------



## Mapped (Oct 5, 2011)

Pah! I was up at 6am to get on a train to Manchester, won't be back until late tonight and I had a 12 hour day yesterday. It's not always like that though, it depends on the work/deadlines etc.

I'm starting to line manage next year and time management won't be a priority, delivering the work will.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 5, 2011)

discokermit said:


> never. not once. four/four thirty are fairly normal finishing times in engineering.


This. Although I am at my desk by 7.30am.

I also get a short day on Fridays so I finish at 12.30.

But saying that, I often work additional unpaid hours, and have done whether I worked in the private sector or not. And in my current job, some shockingly lazy people.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 5, 2011)

discokermit said:


> it's not about how grim it is or not. you do unpaid overtime, you fuck it up for everyone else. then it's expected and becomes the norm. then it increases as management realise they can get away with less staff. this means wages are driven down and unemployment increases.
> 
> eight people doing an hour unpaid every day are between them doing someone out of a job.
> 
> overtime is a bad thing. unpaid overtime is massively worse.



spot on. Don't cunt everyone else off.


----------



## Gromit (Oct 5, 2011)

As a lazy public worker my life would often have been easier if the lazy private IT contractors had been in the office instead of in the pub all Friday afternoon.


----------



## Red Cat (Oct 6, 2011)

janeb said:


> You know I don't actually disagree in principle, of course I don't.
> 
> But the reality, and it is fucking grim, is that unless our staff change the way they work (so do a safe 'minimum' for each case rather than the old way of practicing which is what they are more comfortable doing) the only outcome we would have is not more staff but vulnerable service users without a service. As managers we are doing everything we can to help them adjust the way they work but part of the problem is that other parts of the public sector that we interact with have also been cut so our staff are starting to try to fill the gaps by other agencies with then puts more pressure on then and so it goes on.
> 
> ...



What about industrial action? If you can't do your jobs and the service users are at risk why not take collective action? Not suggesting for one minute this is easy but it is the answer. The public sector is maintained by people, many of them women in teaching, social work and nursing, working unpaid overtime because they feel they have to look after their students/clients/patients and feeling guilty if they attempt to protect themselves.


----------



## Athos (Oct 6, 2011)

This public sector worker did 16 hours yesterday, and I can't see it easing off before Wednesday of next week. That's on about half the money I'd get in private industry. How the fuck have we become the bad guys?!


----------



## Lo Siento. (Oct 6, 2011)

the world's totally upside down. Progress nowadays apparently means working all the hours god sends, rather than a steadily increasing amount of leisure time. Madness.


----------



## rover07 (Oct 6, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> the world's totally upside down. Progress nowadays apparently means working all the hours god sends, rather than a steadily increasing amount of leisure time. Madness.





Shut up and get on with your work.


----------



## machine cat (Oct 6, 2011)

I have a special train to catch so I leave at 4:52


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 6, 2011)

In the past in private sector jobs I've seen many, many people do unpaid overtime.  There were various reasons.  Some were genuinely really busy and concientious, some were very ambitious, and some were incompetent and unable to get their work done in the alloted hours.

At present I work at a university.  I don't often do unpaid overtime but sometimes it's inevitable.  If there's an event going on which over-runs, or if the phone rings at home time and it's someone with a complicated query for example, I can't just walk off and say "sorry, home time!"


----------



## moochedit (Oct 6, 2011)

i work in the private sector. we finish at 4.30pm and the car park is empty by 4.31pm! fuck doing overtime.


----------



## TitanSound (Oct 6, 2011)

I work my contracted hours when I have to. I'm not getting paid anymore if I do work overtime so why the fuck should I?

At the moment though, we are just about to finish a 6 month project so my days have mainly been 10 hours or more for the past 2 months. I'll probably get about 20% of that time back in leave. I don't mind that though as it's something awesome to put on my CV and makes me feel good knowing that the tax payer isn't getting screwed by "consultants".


----------



## boohoo (Oct 6, 2011)

My line manager said the way to get ahead where I work (Private sector) is to seen to be staying late. I have a life outside of work so don't stay late. My work is boring so I don't want to be any more than I have to be - however I do have too much work to do.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 6, 2011)

Actually, we knock off at 3pm.


----------



## Idaho (Oct 6, 2011)

I work in the private sector. Most of my company people are busy-busy look-at-me-working types. But our team we tend to work our contracted hours mostly, with occassionally slacking, balanced out by the odd bit of weekend work - late travel, etc.


----------



## baldrick (Oct 6, 2011)

i don't do unpaid overtime.  i get TOIL, but i am so fucking busy i really try not to build up more than a few hours because i won't have time to take it.

i would knock off at 5 if i got to work at 9.  it's more like 9:15 to 9:30 for me but it's not like management will complain. i'm doing 2 or 3 people's jobs at the moment because most of the people I work with are either lazy or incompetent.

and yes, i do work in the public sector.


----------



## janeb (Oct 6, 2011)

Red Cat said:


> What about industrial action? If you can't do your jobs and the service users are at risk why not take collective action? Not suggesting for one minute this is easy but it is the answer. The public sector is maintained by people, many of them women in teaching, social work and nursing, working unpaid overtime because they feel they have to look after their students/clients/patients and feeling guilty if they attempt to protect themselves.



Assuming the ballot is yes for strIke action on Nov 30th I'll be on strike, even though my grade isn't recognised in our partnership agreement (I'm a member of UNISON). Our workforce is less than 35% unionised and I'd have money on the fact that a really high number of those members won't strike. Exceptionally depressing but true.


----------



## kittyP (Oct 6, 2011)

I have generally a 20 min lunch break and on average work a couple of hours a week over my paid time.
I am a learning support assistant in one of the worst paying boroughs in London.

Fuck you if you think I should work longer hours.


----------



## Mapped (Oct 6, 2011)

9 to 5? What about annual leave? This takes the piss. This is my local hospital, if I get hurt I don't want to be treated by knackered and demoralised staff



> *Whipps Cross Hospital staff asked to give up annual leave*
> 
> An east London hospital has urged staff to "sacrifice" some of their annual leave or do unpaid work to save money.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15199437


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 8, 2011)

N1 Buoy said:


> 9 to 5? What about annual leave? This takes the piss. This is my local hospital, if I get hurt I don't want to be treated by knackered and demoralised staff
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15199437



Wow -the executives are sacrificing a whole 2 days leave. Really big sacrifice for them. They shouldn't even be asking front-line staff to do that.


----------

