# Transgender Representation in Video Games



## ska invita (Mar 15, 2014)

Interesting video...

dont have anything to add myself, im just putting it out there


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## Utopia (Mar 18, 2014)

Apparently the new Transformers game is going to be called Trannyformers!


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## Santino (Mar 18, 2014)

Utopia said:


> Apparently the new Transformers game is going to be called Trannyformers!


Why don't you cunt off?


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## Utopia (Mar 18, 2014)

....or even Pac-MannywithaFanny


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## Greebo (Mar 18, 2014)

Utopia said:


> Apparently the new Transformers game <snip>


Amazing  - a dick with no brain can type!  How on earth did that happen?


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## Greebo (Mar 18, 2014)

Utopia said:


> ....or even <snip>


Seriously, not funny.  

Whether you realise it or not, transphobic comments do very real damage.


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## FridgeMagnet (Mar 18, 2014)

No this is definitely not acceptable on urban. Week ban to make the point.


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## ska invita (Mar 18, 2014)

FridgeMagnet would it be okay to delete the offending posts? Id rather they werent here for people who come to the thread in the future


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## Corax (Mar 18, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> No this is definitely not acceptable on urban. Week ban to make the point.


Lenient, even if it's a first strike.


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## Corax (Mar 18, 2014)

ska invita said:


> would it be okay to delete the offending posts? Id rather they werent here for people who come to the thread in the future


Not for me to decide - but leaving them up, and the subsequent replies & consequences, at least leaves a message for any others who think that kind of vileness is funny iyswim. 

Has to be balanced against the potential distress caused to others who might read them though - and that's not a judgement I'm in a position to make.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 18, 2014)

I say delete em, potentially interesting thread is only gonna be ruined by that dickheads juvenile bullshit as the first reply


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## Santino (Mar 18, 2014)

I'll delete the post I quoted if the original is deleted.


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## Corax (Mar 18, 2014)

ska invita said:


> Interesting video...
> 
> dont have anything to add myself, im just putting it out there



Anyway, on the video itself... 

Firstly, I really liked it. The creator has a great knack for making some pretty fucking serious points with a good dose of wit and levity - but without that detracting from the importance of what they're saying.

One thing I'm unsure on though, is the appeal for transgender roles to be given to transgender people.

I've played a variety of parts in the past, and in every one I was 'becoming' someone else. That was the whole point. That's exactly what good acting requires - an extreme empathy (literal sense) with the character. Sometimes that involved empathising with characters that were very different to who I am, and were nothing like I'd ever want to be. That's the challenge. It didn't mean I was unsuitable to play the role though. 

So the idea that a character that 'we' put in a certain box according to a single specific characteristic should be played by an actor that shares that particular characteristic doesn't sit well with me from an acting angle. 

In addition, it elevates that single characteristic above all others and makes it the defining feature of both character and actor - which is actually something that the video's creator asks people not to do. To consider the whole person, not reduce them down to a gender identify. 

There's a parallel with race of course, but there the issue is complicated by the history associated with white actors 'blacking up', so I don't think it's quite the same situation.

This isn't something I've discussed before, or even thought much about before, so I may be missing an angle I've not considered - don't shoot me down in flames. Interested to know what other people's perspectives on it are.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 18, 2014)

From the discussions I've read about trans* people playing trans* people in the past, it settles on a couple of points.

1 is that it's a good thing to be able to _tell your own story_. While this is acting, and you're telling someone else's story, we're at a point in trans* history where there is so little visual representation of real honest to goodness trans* people that being able to be involved in the telling of a trans* story is an important step. It leads into the 2nd point, which is that the trend of having trans* characters played by cis actors can be seen as a sort of _erasing_ of trans* people from media - their stories can be told but not by them, iyswim. It's not to say that there is anything inherently wrong with a cis person playing a trans person, nor with a straight person playing a gay person, etc... but that for it to be completely free of connotation and subtext is to assume we already have a level playing field, which we do not. Hopefully down the line it won't be an issue, and actors can play parts free of any representational problems. But we're not there yet, and there's a whole lot of _context_ involved when people who are already marginalised in society as a whole and media more specifically are most frequently represented - when indeed they _are_ represented at all - by those who already make up the most represented group of people out there.

So it's much bigger than just saying, "hey, this is what acting is - taking on a role that might not align with who the actor is in real life."

Of course, it brings up other issues, such as trans* actors being pigeonholed into only ever getting parts where them playing a trans* character is integral to the story. Overall I'd say it's far more important that a trans* actor be able to play both trans* and cis characters if they so wish than it is that cis actors be able to play trans* characters.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 18, 2014)

Incidentally, I thought the video was very good. It makes great points, in a non-confrontational and educational way. The concept of 'the trap' is something that has always made me very angry. It combines so many thoroughly awful implications in it, running the gamut of sexism, objectification and transphobia.


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## Corax (Mar 18, 2014)

Interesting posts Vintage, and food for thought - thanks.


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## fen_boy (Mar 18, 2014)

Same reviewer reviews Dys4ia, which is a game about gender dysphoria.


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## ska invita (Mar 18, 2014)

fen_boy said:


> Same reviewer reviews Dys4ia, which is a game about gender dysphoria.



Which is an amazing "game" - its an emotional experience - and the soundtrack is very effective too - only takes 5 mins, give it a try if you havent already
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/591565


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 18, 2014)

You're right, ska invita - that's incredibly moving. Thank you for linking to the game.


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## Vintage Paw (Mar 18, 2014)

Incidentally, I just found this:

http://schedule.gdconf.com/session-id/826215



> *Misogyny, Racism and Homophobia: Where Do Video Games Stand?*
> This session will take a close look at the games we create and examine them with a different perspective than normal: how do video games hold up when we examine their contents for potential racism, misogyny and homophobia? This session will look at a number of recent games from this perspective, and talk about the positives and negatives that are found within our games. The talk will examine narrative representation, narrative depiction and the game dynamics to see how race, gender and sexuality are treated. Finally, the session will give some tips for how to avoid falling into easy traps when dealing with these issues, and discuss how this can improve the quality of the game.
> *Takeaway*
> Attendees should understand what issues are frequently found in games today, with respect to racism, misogyny and homophobia. They should also have an understanding of how we compare to the industry's past and what steps we can take to move the industry forward, and how that can improve game quality.
> ...



Talk being given by Manveer Heir of BioWare. He's just super fucking awesome in many, many ways. It's one of the reasons I maintain some vague kind of woolly 'loyalty' to BioWare, because its prominent developers are always generally pretty outspoken about these issues.

I think, despite the often toxic nature around public debate in video games, it's an interesting point in their history with regard to this stuff.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 18, 2014)

ska invita said:


> Which is an amazing "game" - its an emotional experience - and the soundtrack is very effective too - only takes 5 mins, give it a try if you havent already
> http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/591565



Brilliant.


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## ska invita (Mar 18, 2014)

Vintage Paw said:


> You're right, ska invita - that's incredibly moving. Thank you for linking to the game.


i came across it as i subscribe to Kimble Justices channel and saw the review- i remember my stomach doing cartwheels playing it the first time. Just went through it again now and still feel it in the gut. Real art.

Theres always good stuff on Kimbles channel, even if its just about some random platform game on a Commodore 64 - but occasionally he gets deep. This little mini series on games about the cold war is a good watch too: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/political-sims.306541/#post-12612596
The three videos on Sensible Soccer are particularly amazing though 

I think hes growing in confidence, both as a presenter and in feeling able to bring up issues like this <all power to him, he does a great job.


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## tommers (Mar 18, 2014)

Auntie Pixelante has her own site....

http://www.auntiepixelante.com


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## classicdish (Mar 18, 2014)

More stuff: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/tag/live-free-play-hard/


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## Utopia (Mar 26, 2014)

My Apologies people, I misjudged my humour somewhat.  I work with a pre-op transsexual and she(previously he) makes these types of tongue in cheek comments herself so I though it was acceptable in some ways, I guess not.


It was meant to be funny, no sinister undertones I assure you.

Again sorry if you were offended.


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## ska invita (Apr 10, 2014)

The Guardian has a done a thing on  LGBT games today:
http://www.theguardian.com/technolo...how-video-games-are-opening-up-to-lgbt-themes
with Mass Effect 3 being talked about the most - a game where at the start  players have the option of starting relationships with both gay male and female characters.


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 10, 2014)

BioWare did a couple of those relationships really nicely. A couple felt a bit cheap at times, but overall they were handled really very well.

There's a reason BioWare is my favourite developer - and this is a huge part of it.

Fun fact: in my dark days of spending a lot of time on BSN (BioWare Social Network - their forums basically) there was a massive ongoing struggle for representation. As you can imagine, there was a lot of trolling, a lot of bigoted hate, a lot of "keep your politics out of my video games" and "stop shoving your gay agenda down my throat." It was also well known that a particular community relations manager type person who worked for them was also a cunt and would shut down debate and discussion on a whim - not when the bigots were being bigoted, but when the rational people were being rational. Anyway, I was rather heavily (very heavily) involved in all that stuff, and I'm rather proud of it, tbh. I honestly believe the work we did there helped nudge the ME team in the right direction for ME3, and in turn it's a game that is cited in practically every discussion and article on representation in video games. And between that and the run-up to Dragon Age 2 (which was basically a party atmosphere compared to the ME side of things because the DA team are so fucking wonderful) I've made some lovely, very close friends, some of whom I've travelled to the US to visit.

So all of that is a big part of why I'm such a BioWare fangirl.


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 10, 2014)

Incidentally, reading the bit in that article about the options open to you if there is abuse when playing a game: I'm in the official reddit guild for ESO, and we had our first big PvP event with us all on mumble the other night. I was really, really sad to hear someone bandy around the whole "that's gay" thing, and I was also very, very sad to hear sexism (a very unoriginal sandwich and a blowjob joke, for example - not directed at me, but at one of the guy's girlfriend who wasn't playing). It made me feel very uncomfortable, and I felt like I didn't really want to speak up very much, and that I wouldn't be taken as seriously as other people. There's a feeling of being 'allowed' into 'their' space. And that's flat out wrong.


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 10, 2014)

I just watched Manveer's talk that is linked to in that article: http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1020420/Misogyny-Racism-and-Homophobia-Where

It's absolutely fantastic.


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## RichardWad (Apr 14, 2014)

Would not be a forum site without the topic of Trans.
On Terraria online's forum pages, I follow a trans gaming thread.
But I found it interesting to find a trans related thread this fast.
I should probably make a second account and use my Steam name.


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## fishfinger (Apr 14, 2014)

RichardWad said:


> I should probably make a second account and use my Steam name.


You're not allowed multiple accounts.


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## RichardWad (Apr 14, 2014)

fishfinger said:


> You're not allowed multiple accounts.


Under the same email, yeah that is not allowed.
I do have multiple emails.


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## RichardWad (Apr 14, 2014)

fishfinger said:


> You're not allowed multiple accounts.



I appreciate you giving me that information though.


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## fishfinger (Apr 14, 2014)

RichardWad said:


> I appreciate you giving me that information though.


No problem.


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## RichardWad (Apr 14, 2014)

fishfinger said:


> No problem.


Being new to this particular forums, I was/am unaware of that "no multiple accounts" rule and I did not really find anything on it in ToS.
Unless "disruptive 'comical' alter-egos" counts as multiple accounts, I act the same, no matter what name I happen to be using.  Whether it be a gamer tag or a nonsense name like Richard Wad.


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## fishfinger (Apr 14, 2014)

RichardWad said:


> Being new to this particular forums, I was/am unaware of that "no multiple accounts" rule and I did not really find anything on it in ToS.
> Unless "disruptive 'comical' alter-egos" counts as multiple accounts, I act the same, no matter what name I happen to be using.  Whether it be a gamer tag or a nonsense name like Richard Wad.


If you are found to have multiple accounts on this board, then you will have them banned. The rules are not very clear on this, but as far as I can tell, it's one person, one account. If you don't like the username you have chosen, and wish to change it, then please contact one of the mods, and they _may_ allow you to change it.


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## RichardWad (Apr 14, 2014)

fishfinger said:


> If you are found to have multiple accounts on this board, then you will have them banned. The rules are not very clear on this, but as far as I can tell, it's one person, one account. If you don't like the username you have chosen, and wish to change it, then please contact one of the mods, and they _may_ allow you to change it.



Oh, wow.  It is unfortunate that this was not cleared up in the ToS.
Thank you again.


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## Vintage Paw (Apr 14, 2014)

It's not done by email, your IP will flag up I believe. Multiple accounts from the same IP (unless several people in the same household/work place are known to have separate accounts) will be flagged. We have a problem with returnee banned posters and those who make secondary accounts for shenanigans, and I don't think they are all so stupid as to use the same email address each time.

Welcome to Urban, though


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