# The Michael Gove File



## Balbi (Dec 12, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/dec/12/michael-gove-heads-pay-teachers



> In the letter, Gove said heads should tackle the unions' joint work-to-rule action "swiftly and firmly before it causes any more damage in schools" and set out appropriate sanctions. "The legal position is clear," he wrote. "Teachers who are following this industrial action are very likely to be in breach of their contracts. Pay deductions represent a lawful response, and the advice sets out how deductions can be made in a proportionate and reasonable way.



 Someone doesn't understand 'work to rule'. Three months into the action, but a week short of Teaching Union response to further grinding out of the collective bargaining powers of the profession. Scum.


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## goldenecitrone (Dec 12, 2012)

Gove should be strangled to death with his own intestines.


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## Balbi (Dec 12, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2012/dec/05/michael-gove-warned-exams-unworkable



> Last month the CBI questioned the need for a significant set of exams at 16, given the imminent rise of the school leaving age to 18.
> 
> After the release of Stacey's letter, Twigg said the EBacc was "narrow and out of date", and opposed by the CBI. "Now his exams chief says that the quality and reliability of exams will be damaged by his plans, and that it will make the classroom experience 'more limited'. With businesses and education experts opposed to his changes, he needs to think again."
> 
> Nonetheless, it seems Gove remains undaunted. He told the committee he would be willing to overrule Ofqual and press ahead if he believed the changes were right: "If they still had concerns and I still believe it is right to go ahead then I would do it, and on my head be it."



Let me just take that one by itself...



> He told the committee he would be willing to overrule Ofqual and press ahead if he believed the changes were right: "If they still had concerns and I still believe it is right to go ahead then I would do it, and on my head be it."



If the experts in exams and qualifications oppose his plan to replace all 16 age exams with his own idea on grounds that its devalued, unworkable and fucking stupid - Gove believes it's on his head. 

NO, ITS ON THE EDUCATIONAL MAULING A WHOLE GROUP OF CHILDREN GET DUE TO YOUR INCOMPETENCE YOU POB EYED FUCKWIT.


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## twentythreedom (Dec 12, 2012)

Did his foreword to the bible ever materialize? 

He's a vile, arrogant, deluded, bitter and dangerous fool. I detest him.


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## Balbi (Dec 12, 2012)

His bible arrived at our school and was promptly nicked.


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## elbows (Dec 12, 2012)

His bible was certainly delivered because he then got some stick for it being in a format that was useless for students with a range of disabilities.


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## spanglechick (Dec 12, 2012)

i would reply to this thread but i can't because it's too depressing.

oh, except to say the big boss of our academy 'chain', whose Gove's BFF and is a significant contributor to his fucking polices, not only got a knighthood this year, but also a 31% payrise, making well over £320,000 pa plus pension contributions.    

cos, yannow, he's the one doing all the hard work.  Not us shirkers with our payfreezes...


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## Pickman's model (Dec 12, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> Gove should be strangled to death with his own intestines.


that's not fair 

he should be strangled with osborne's intestines.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 12, 2012)

If Santa brings me one thing this year it will be a yewtree for gove


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## twentythreedom (Dec 12, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> that's not fair
> 
> he should be strangled with osborne's intestines.


 
Osborne is gutless though! Pickles has some spare if needed.


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## Raminta (Dec 12, 2012)

Rotten tomatoes and eggs for them.


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## Delroy Booth (Dec 12, 2012)

twentythreedom said:


> Did his foreword to the bible ever materialize?
> 
> He's a vile, arrogant, deluded, bitter and dangerous fool. I detest him.


 
I reckon he's the worst of all the Tory ministers.


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## spanglechick (Dec 12, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I reckon he's the worst of all the Tory ministers.


 
my personal reasoning as to why this is true, is: with other tory cunts there's an element of cynicism and game-playing.  but to gove this is a personal philosophy.  he really believes in this stuff, and that's much more scary.


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## colacubes (Dec 12, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> my personal reasoning as to why this is true, is: with other tory cunts there's an element of cynicism and game-playing. but to gove this is a personal philosophy. he really believes in this stuff, and that's much more scary.


 
He also doesn't have to worry about losing his seat in the next election as he has pretty much the safest seat in the country.


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## Balbi (Dec 12, 2012)

"I want to free schools from local bureaucracy to focus on educating!" Says Gove.

"Dock the pay of those freeing themselves from local bureaucracy to focus on educating!" Says Gove.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 12, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I reckon he's the worst of all the Tory ministers.


 

and in one of the worst positions for a wrecker. He will, if he can, completely push schools for profit into fruition.

Lets not also forget where _she_ started out in cabinet


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## purenarcotic (Dec 12, 2012)

He truly is a massive, massive cunt.  He makes me so angry.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 12, 2012)

Balbi said:


> His bible arrived at our school and was promptly nicked.


 

I hope they used the thin pages to skin up


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## Balbi (Dec 12, 2012)

Its weird, but I am genuinely starting to feel like those fucking Tory cunts who planned to abandon ship in 97 if Labour got in in.

Im absolutely certain that I could earn more, for doing the same job, elsewhere - and be more valued for it by my employer. 

Which is worrying, as it means im seeing my job as a profit margin. Fucks sake


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## Delroy Booth (Dec 12, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> I hope they used the thin pages to skin up


 
Bible paper > Yellow Pages


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## Nylock (Dec 12, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> Gove should be strangled to death with his own intestines.


I don't think there is any mode of transport that i wouldn't consider shoving him under...


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## Nylock (Dec 12, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


> that's not fair
> 
> he should be strangled with osborne's intestines.


It's a shame that it's not possible to 'double like' a post


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## Pickman's model (Dec 12, 2012)

Nylock said:


> I don't think there is any mode of transport that i wouldn't consider shoving him under...


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## Nylock (Dec 12, 2012)

Pickman's model said:


>


The slower and more painful, the better imo


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## bi0boy (Dec 12, 2012)

goldenecitrone said:


> Gove should be strangled to death with his own intestines.


 
Nah you've got to use his epic face in the killing process somehow.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 12, 2012)

slow, eh?

this will do the trick then





it's a space rocket crawler-transporter


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## Nylock (Dec 12, 2012)

that's the fucker! 

...hobble him so he can only run at 0.1m/s slower than the crawler, line the sides of the runway with electric fence so he can't escape, and give him a 5m head-start


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## bendeus (Dec 13, 2012)

Nylock said:


> that's the fucker!
> 
> ...hobble him so he can only run at 0.1m/s slower than the crawler, line the sides of the runway with electric fence so he can't escape, and give him a 5m head-start



"Show me your cumface now, you squidgy pus'ed dollop of ordure!"


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## quimcunx (Dec 13, 2012)

Balbi said:


> His bible arrived at our school and was promptly nicked.


 
The bible is the most stolen book so this should hardly surprise.


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## Balbi (Dec 13, 2012)

Piss artists impression of how his policies are going down amongst teachers.


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## Mr.Bishie (Dec 13, 2012)

^^ Such a shame he didn't break his scrawny fucking neck!


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## Balbi (Dec 13, 2012)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/dec/13/fall-primary-schools-targets



> Standard academies, of which there were 255, did the best of any primary type in the proportion of pupils hitting the required level for English and maths, at 86.1%, up more than five percentage points from last year. The parallel figure for everyday community schools is 79.3%, though their year-on-year improvement was slightly greater. The academies also do best in the proportion of pupils hitting the higher, level five, standard for English and maths.
> 
> The 147 sponsored academies lagged on 70.3%, but with a bigger annual improvement of almost nine percentage points.
> 
> Free schools, another major coalition education policy, sit at the bottom of the table with just over 70% of pupils hitting the necessary standards, but from a tiny sample size of just 44.


 
Chucking money at Academies using LEA money from community schools means they improve by less than budget cut schools.

Private education via the backdoor doesn't produce results shocker.

Free schools actually a bit dire shocker.





> The threat for malingering schools is forcible conversion to academy status, a programme moving quickly despite the still relatively small numbers compared with the secondary sector


 
MALINGERING SCHOOLS? FUCK OFF GUARDIAN. FUCK THE FUCK OFF.


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## chilango (Dec 13, 2012)

Idiot.

Sowing the seeds of the destruction of the society/culture he thinks he's defending.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 13, 2012)

spanglechick said:


> my personal reasoning as to why this is true, is: with other tory cunts there's an element of cynicism and game-playing. but to gove this is a personal philosophy. he really believes in this stuff, and that's much more scary.


 
Yep, same with Iain Duncan Shit. Scary fanatic pair of egotistic cunts.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 13, 2012)

chilango said:


> Idiot.
> 
> Sowing the seeds of the destruction of the society/culture he thinks he's defending.


 
Yes, but his idiocy serves a useful purpose for his colleagues and their paymasters.


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## chilango (Dec 13, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yes, but his idiocy serves a useful purpose for his colleagues and their paymasters.



Short term.

Grab as much cash as possible, hole up somewhere safe for retirement and don't live to see the whole thing crash down over the next couple of decades.

Slash n burn capitalism.


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## Balbi (Jan 15, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/jan/15/teachers-pay-performance-michael-gove



> Gove has now written to Dame Patricia Hodgson, the chair of the STRB, to confirm the change, which will affect schools in England and Wales.
> He wrote: "I am clear that these changes will give schools greater freedom to develop pay policies that are tailored to their school's needs and circumstances and to reward their teachers in line with their performance." There was, he added, "further work to be done" in deciding the best way to implement the recommendations.
> The new system will end teachers' automatic progression to new national pay points according to length of service, linking it instead to annual appraisals, as happens already with some senior staff. While the wider pay bands will be maintained as a general reference, the set points between them will be abolished, with heads given the power to choose what within the scale a teacher is paid. Higher pay bands for London and surrounding areas will be kept in place.


 
I'm going to be able, as a well qualified and good teacher with a four year track record of quality improvement, to go and demand more than my scale point increase if I move to a school with a lot of trouble recruiting. Divisive, mercenary making manouver.


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## spanglechick (Jan 15, 2013)

Mmm. I think the opposite will happen.  Older, skilled, experienced teachers will face a pay freeze at the bottom of each scale.  Your current employer won't gove you a raise and recruiting will favour cheap kids that won't ever need paying more.


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## brogdale (Jan 15, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> Mmm. I think the opposite will happen. Older, skilled, experienced teachers will face a pay freeze at the bottom of each scale. Your current employer won't gove you a raise and recruiting will favour cheap kids that won't ever need paying more.


 
I think that's generally right, though this further entrenchment of the bullying HT's charter will produce benefits for the cohorts of arse-lickers and box-tickers that reinforce the narcissistic psychopathy of some of the more martinet 'senior managers'. Just more fuedalism that will erode standards of learning.


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## Balbi (Jan 15, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> Mmm. I think the opposite will happen. Older, skilled, experienced teachers will face a pay freeze at the bottom of each scale. Your current employer won't gove you a raise and recruiting will favour cheap kids that won't ever need paying more.


 
Male/female pay inequality down in primary


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 16, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> Mmm. I think the opposite will happen. Older, skilled, experienced teachers will face a pay freeze at the bottom of each scale. Your current employer *won't gove you* a raise and recruiting will favour cheap kids that won't ever need paying more.


 
Freudian slip.


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## Balbi (Feb 2, 2013)

Rumours that the Observer has a Gove toppling story running tomorrow.


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## 8115 (Feb 2, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Rumours that the Observer has a Gove toppling story running tomorrow.


 
I hope so, but given his performance up to now, I literally can't imagine what he would have to do to be toppled.  I'll bet you a fiver he's still in his job at christmas.


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## Balbi (Feb 2, 2013)

As a teacher, I won't take that bet as I am too busy shouting "PLEASEDEARGODPLEASEDEARGOD" and crossing myself.


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## manny-p (Feb 2, 2013)

Balbi said:


> Rumours that the Observer has a Gove toppling story running tomorrow.


Where did you here these rumours mate?


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## Belushi (Feb 2, 2013)

The Guardian site has this story http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/02/gove-advisers-claims-smear-tactics


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## Balbi (Feb 2, 2013)

manny-p said:


> Where did you here these rumours mate?



Fleetwood Mac.

Hype though, story's barely a ripple raiser.


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## Libertad (Feb 2, 2013)

edit: Link as posted above.


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## 8115 (Feb 2, 2013)

That's not a Gove-toppling story.


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## Miss-Shelf (Feb 2, 2013)

slightly off the imminent topic but it gives a flavour of the DfE
when the DfE site took over the former DCSF it, of course, rebranded the site

but not content with just rebranding the DCSF site with it's rainbow logos it actually depicted the rainbow being dismantled - am I alone in finding that weird?


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## Miss-Shelf (Feb 2, 2013)

8115 said:


> That's not a Gove-toppling story.


unfortunately not


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## manny-p (Feb 2, 2013)

Miss-Shelf said:


> slightly off the imminent topic but it gives a flavour of the DfE
> when the DfE site took over the former DCSF it, of course, rebranded the site
> 
> but not content with just rebranding the DCSF site with it's rainbow logos it actually depicted the rainbow being dismantled - am I alone in finding that weird?
> View attachment 28435


Yeah odd. A gay teacher purge expected?


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## redsquirrel (Feb 3, 2013)

8115 said:


> That's not a Gove-toppling story.


Nope but what can you expect from the soggy piece of shit the Observer. I mean it makes the Guardian look radical.


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## Sasaferrato (Feb 3, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> my personal reasoning as to why this is true, is: with other tory cunts there's an element of cynicism and game-playing. but to gove this is a personal philosophy. he really believes in this stuff, and that's much more scary.


 
You mean like vile shits like Crosland, who despite having a very privileged education, destroyed the grammar school system, to the huge detriment of working class children?


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## elbows (Feb 6, 2013)




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## weltweit (Feb 6, 2013)

Bloody hell, I have just been trying to get my head around the Bacc for my year 9 er ...


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## Blagsta (Feb 6, 2013)

influenced by Gramsci apparently

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education...inspirations-jade-goody?mobile-redirect=false


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## spanglechick (Feb 7, 2013)

*Well, well, well... too late for the damage he's done to next year's cohort, mind - where no very bright kids were allowed to take Arts subjects at my school... but, still, a fail for Gove is a win for education. Let us celebrate.   *​​​​​​​


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## spanglechick (Feb 7, 2013)

sorry for the odd font. c&p'd from fb.


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## SLK (Feb 7, 2013)

The English Baccalaureate still exists though - its just a measure of 6 academic GCSEs that students will continue to be encouraged to do because the schools will be public ally measured on them.

The only thing that won't change is that these subjects will still be GCSEs and not called 'EBCs' (which were going to be examined by one exam board in each subject). He's saying he's still going to make that collection of GCSEs even more academic in content.


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## spanglechick (Feb 7, 2013)

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but we only have the independent article to go on so far...?

The ebacc six have been part of league tables for a couple of years now, but are roundly ignored.  Parents don't ask about the stats, universities and sixth form colleges don't care, RAISE doesn't focus on them...  The only game in town is the five including eng and maths stats.  Perhaps with a fluctuating trend to and from cva.  

Had gove succeeded, these new qualifications would've been here to stay, and arts education would never have recovered.  This way, the bizarre cluster of six deserving special attention will continue to be irrelevant, and when he goes, can disappear altogether.


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## elbows (Feb 7, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but we only have the independent article to go on so far...?


 
You were quite possibly right when you wrote that but not any more...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/feb/07/government-denies-u-turn-gcse-replacement




> The government insists its sudden abandonment of plans to scrap the GCSE, described by Labour as a humiliating U-turn, amounts to little more than a "tweak" to its programme and that the bulk of changes to post-16 exams will still be delivered.
> 
> Michael Gove is to formally announce to the Commons on Thursday morning that he has dropped the idea of replacing GCSEs with an English Baccalaureate Certificate (EBC), a scheme announced only in September as one of the education secretary's flagship policies for schools.
> 
> The reversal is understood to have been prompted by opposition from the Liberal Democrats and concerns raised by both the exams watchdog, Ofqual, and the influential education select committee, as well as fears that a plan to allow only one exam board per subject in the EBC could bring legal challenges.


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## ayatollah (Feb 7, 2013)

All Gramsci's fault, obviously.

I so much want Gove to take over from Dave as leader of the Tories. His combination of boundless egotism, profound nerkishness, in-the-back-pocket-of-Murdoch corruption, and fundamental insane incompetence could only serve to bring that lovely day of Madame Guillotine MUCH closer. Anything other than being in charge of Education would be an improvement for teachers and pupils obviously. I think Gove should be in charge of Defence - a department so fundamentally corrupt and fucked up that Gove's madness would make no difference at all! (He could change the plans for those ludicrously expensive white elephant aircraft carriers and their equally ludicrous jet fighters yet AGAIN - and cost us all yet more £billions - with no chance whatsoever of any UK operational carrier force available until about 2030. Fortunately that wouldn't matter a jot to our national security - unless we decide to take part in a naval battle with China ....whereas fucking up our children's educations to please his ignorant foibles really does matter.)


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## Balbi (Feb 7, 2013)

A tweak that jeopardises the future of a generation. Jesus fucking christ.


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## Balbi (Feb 7, 2013)

he doesn't want to make 'the best the enemy of the good'...eh? Implying the idea is right, but everyone else is wrong.


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## yardbird (Feb 7, 2013)

Is it me or is all this wordy gobbledy goop?


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

ayatollah said:


> All Gramsci's fault, obviously.
> 
> I so much want Gove to take over from Dave as leader of the Tories. His combination of boundless egotism, profound nerkishness, in-the-back-pocket-of-Murdoch corruption, and fundamental insane incompetence could only serve to bring that lovely day of Madame Guillotine MUCH closer. Anything other than being in charge of Education would be an improvement for teachers and pupils obviously. I think Gove should be in charge of Defence - a department so fundamentally corrupt and fucked up that Gove's madness would make no difference at all! (He could change the plans for those ludicrously expensive white elephant aircraft carriers and their equally ludicrous jet fighters yet AGAIN - and cost us all yet more £billions - with no chance whatsoever of any UK operational carrier force available until about 2030. Fortunately that wouldn't matter a jot to our national security - unless we decide to take part in a naval battle with China ....whereas fucking up our children's educations to please his ignorant foibles really does matter.)


 
I'd like to know why anyone thought making a traffic cone-hurling yobbo Sec of State for Education was a good idea. Fucking great example he sets for all those young minds! "You too can be like me if you steal cones then chuck 'em off a viaduct without a care for the damage they do!".


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## ViolentPanda (Feb 7, 2013)

yardbird said:


> Is it me or is all this wordy gobbledy goop?


 
It's not just you!


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## marty21 (Feb 7, 2013)

Gove in the shit - 

As far as I can tell he still wants to introduce exam based GCSEs , not sure what to think about that - my O'levels were exam based only, my A Levels were exam based only, even my degree was exam based, I had to pass my first year in order to continue - and at the end my degree was based on the 8 finals I took


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## Plumdaff (Feb 7, 2013)

Anecdotally, I am a natural exam taker - great short term memory, good crammer - and I thank goodness that some of my GCSEs were modular in nature as much as I hated them at the time without that I think I would have really struggled with the level of forward planning and self-organisation that was required at university in many courses (eg. dissertations). Well, I did struggle anyway but it would have been much much worse! In his desire to create some educational Tom Brown Schooldays wonderland that only exists in his own head I think he'll fuck up the chances of a lot of state school pupils if they manage to get into further education - and my experience having sampled Russell Group universities and an ex-poly is that the supposedly 'better' the Uni, the far less likely they are to have that kind of pastoral and learning support on offer.


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## marty21 (Feb 7, 2013)

I could probably have improved my grades if I had some course work modules that contributed to the final grade - the changes to module based make it impossible to compare the A Level grades - they keep boasting about how the grades have improved for the last 30 years (when I took my A Levels) but how can you compare the grades for students who had exam based qualifications to those who had course work/exam based qualifications?


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## Pickman's model (Feb 7, 2013)

marty21 said:


> I could probably have improved my grades if I had some course work modules that contributed to the final grade - the changes to module based make it impossible to compare the A Level grades - they keep boasting about how the grades have improved for the last 30 years (when I took my A Levels) but how can you compare the grades for students who had exam based qualifications to those who had course work/exam based qualifications?


very easily. but not meaningfully.


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## marty21 (Feb 7, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> very easily. but not meaningfully.


 exactly - you can say that 75% got 5 or more GCSEs at A grade, but it doesn't take into account that the exams from 30 years ago were totally different


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## spanglechick (Feb 7, 2013)

The revised ebacc eight will look like this: 

English and maths
Three out of: sciences, MFL, history and geography
Three other subjects such as art, music or RE


The devil will be in the detail of those "other subjects" and what will count - as a drama teacher I can't breathe out yet... But it is a significant win for arts education specifically, and for the concept of breadth of study.


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## Hocus Eye. (Feb 7, 2013)

As far as I understood it from The world at One, EBACC is to be kicked into the long grass. GCSEs will continue but be meddled with; he still intends to do away with coursework. Also History will be royally rogered as planned so that children will be able to reel off a list of famous people in their chronological order showing how Britain has 'progressed' over the years.


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## Garek (Feb 7, 2013)

Doing away with course work is really going to harm those with LDs.


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## Hocus Eye. (Feb 7, 2013)

Garek said:


> Doing away with course work is really going to harm those with LDs.


It will skew exam results in the favour of boys compared to now as it has been shown that girls do better at coursework because they work harder at it. Perhaps that is Gove's intention. Gove probably has not heard of Learning Difficulties.


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## weltweit (Feb 7, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> The revised ebacc eight will look like this:
> 
> English and maths
> Three out of: sciences, MFL, history and geography
> ...


 
That is pretty much what our school told us last week. English and Maths but that seems too many other subjects, that would make 8 - is that not too many?


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## Garek (Feb 7, 2013)

Hope this works for those who haven't got a log in: Exams in South Korea: The One Shot Society

This is what I worry about in terms of what people like Gove want. Schools as factories, one chance, separate the wheat from the chaff and may the chaff suffer in eternity.


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## spanglechick (Feb 7, 2013)

weltweit said:


> That is pretty much what our school told us last week. English and Maths but that seems too many other subjects, that would make 8 - is that not too many?


In my day you only did eight, but now it's not unusual to sit several more.  At my school they start gcses a year early to add to the numbers you can take, and instead of getting three hours per week over two years for each non-core subject, you now get two hours in one year and three hours in the other. Or five hours a week and do a whole gcse in one year.  

I think our kids do 12 as standard.


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## marty21 (Feb 7, 2013)

Garek said:


> Hope this works for those who haven't got a log in: Exams in South Korea: The One Shot Society
> 
> This is what I worry about in terms of what people like Gove want. Schools as factories, one chance, separate the wheat from the chaff and may the chaff suffer in eternity.


 He's like the headmaster in the Dickens book Hard Times - Bounderby?


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## Pickman's model (Feb 7, 2013)

marty21 said:


> He's like the headmaster in the Dickens book Hard Times - Bounderby?


i think you mean gradgrind.

call yourself a published poet? 

bounderby is a manufacturer and mill owner.


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## Garek (Feb 7, 2013)

marty21 said:


> He's like the headmaster in the Dickens book Hard Times - Bounderby?


 
I wouldn't know. Hard Times may have been a set book for me but somehow I managed to get away with never reading it


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## marty21 (Feb 7, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> i think you mean gradgrind.
> 
> call yourself a published poet?
> 
> bounderby is a manufacturer and mill owner.


 
 Yeah Gradgrind


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## Hocus Eye. (Feb 7, 2013)

The headline news on World At One was that Gove was backing down on the EBACC and described it as "a bridge too far".


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## SLK (Feb 9, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but we only have the independent article to go on so far...?
> 
> The ebacc six have been part of league tables for a couple of years now, but are roundly ignored. Parents don't ask about the stats, universities and sixth form colleges don't care, RAISE doesn't focus on them... The only game in town is the five including eng and maths stats. Perhaps with a fluctuating trend to and from cva.
> 
> Had gove succeeded, these new qualifications would've been here to stay, and arts education would never have recovered. This way, the bizarre cluster of six deserving special attention will continue to be irrelevant, and when he goes, can disappear altogether.


 
Far far too optimistic in my view. The academic curriculum encouraged by the EBACC (and now the renewed top 8 measure that schools will be judged on now that is not any 8 any more) is not disappearing when Gove goes. If it's another Tory it's likely Truss, but Tory education policy is about the only area that they are popular in - so the Tories back it. And the EBACC collection of subjects is backed by Russell Group universities, who increased their power under Labour. There is no chance of any government moving away from this.

In addition, Gove has basically said he wants to work with OFQUAL to turn GCSEs in the EBACC subjects to something like the EBCs would have been.

I'll find the best summary I've seen on it and post it up here. I sent it to all the staff at my school.


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## SLK (Feb 9, 2013)

Hocus Eye. said:


> The headline news on World At One was that Gove was backing down on the EBACC and described it as "a bridge too far".


 
No, replacing GCSEs with EBCs was a bridge too far... as I said. Here's the summary I'm on about:

http://www.lkmco.org/article/what-happened-round-ebacc-ebc-8-best-announcements-07022013


----------



## jakethesnake (Feb 10, 2013)

Looks like old govey is in trouble... oh dear 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/feb/09/michael-gove-bullying-claims-payout1

Mearns told the _Observer_ that there was a case for Gove to be recalled to the committee: "Clearly there is a case for the secretary of state to come back to the committee and answer further questions. He has either misled the committee or is the most ill-informed minister in the government."


----------



## DownwardDog (Feb 10, 2013)

Balbi said:


> he doesn't want to make 'the best the enemy of the good'...eh? Implying the idea is right, but everyone else is wrong.


 
It's a Voltaire reference. _Dans ses écrits, un sàge Italien __dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien._

Which is presumably what he was thinking when he picked those glasses.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 10, 2013)

DownwardDog said:


> It's a Voltaire reference. _Dans ses écrits, un sàge Italien __dit que le mieux est l'ennemi du bien._
> 
> Which is presumably what he was thinking when he picked those glasses.


 
Or, put another way...it was poncey way of dressing up his (latest) up-fuck; his idea was utterly absurd and he's not prepared to admit it. Twunt.


----------



## spanglechick (Feb 10, 2013)

I'm very conflicted about his glasses because they're pretty fucking stylish. Acknowledging this makes me feel physically sick.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 15, 2013)

Latest slap-down for a Govish up-fack:-
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9871443/Universities-attack-A-level-reforms.html

Funny that, the Universities that rely on AS results upon which to base offers, are against the policy to remove them as an integral part of KS5.

Arrogant twunt....my second call of the day to RAF central.


----------



## Libertad (Feb 15, 2013)

Immer noch hier.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 15, 2013)

It's hechler time again, Libertad.



> _Michael Gove has invited a partner at a global management consultancy and two Conservative party donors to sit on a committee overseeing the implementation of cuts in the Department for Education._
> _Leaked documents show Paul Rogers, a managing partner at US firm Bain & Company, has a place on the DfE's progress and challenge committee, whose members will quiz senior civil servants on their progress in creating a leaner department. Rogers is working pro bono but Bain will be allowed to apply for future contracts within the department, a spokesman said._
> _Rogers will join John Nash, the venture capitalist recently given a peerage and appointed education minister, and Theodore Agnew, an insurance tycoon, on the committee. It is believed to be the first time a senior representative from a management consultancy firm has been invited to sit on a committee overseeing cuts in Whitehall._


 


More here.


----------



## Libertad (Feb 15, 2013)

Kochs the lot of them.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 19, 2013)

Gove really did say this to stop the FoI request identifying "free" school applicants prior to approval:- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...ol-applicants-subjected-to-death-threats.html



> Mr Gove claimed that opposition to the scheme had “gone further than normal healthy debate”, with at least one applicant facing death threats and others losing their jobs.
> He also suggested that the release of the latest information – ordered by the Information Commissioner – may subject future applicants to similar treatment.
> In a letter to Christopher Graham, the Information Commissioner, he said: “We are aware of personal attacks on individuals who simply want to improve educational standards and choice locally.
> “Organisations opposed to free schools have run hostile publicity campaigns. In some cases these have become highly personal, vilifying individuals involved in opening a free school.
> ...


 
Desperate stuff from Gove, but at least the Information Commissioner saw through it.

Interesting that Gove makes no attempt to offer any evidence of the origin of the "death threat", and the torygraph reader is, of course, invited to two and two together to suppose it came from one of the left-wing "*groups ideologically opposed to the programme*".

Seeing as the British Humanist Association's FoI request revealed that, of the 517 bids,....


> ...around a quarter of applications were by faith-based organisations, including those named as Muslim, Plymouth Brethren, Orthodox Jewish, Sikh, Hindu and Greek Orthodox.


it doesn't take much fathoming to work out what sort of organistion might just decide upon a death threat.

Gove...


----------



## Balbi (Feb 20, 2013)

I never trusted those Brethren


----------



## brogdale (Feb 20, 2013)

Balbi said:


> I never trusted those Brethren


 
I've never trusted any of them to let my children go to their schools...despite the fact that they accept public funding. Disgrace.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 20, 2013)

Letter from the Information Commissioner Christopher Graham to gove released:-



> Graham wrote back: "While I note your strongly held views, strongly expressed, I will only observe that both the commissioner and the tribunal have taken careful account of all relevant factors in arriving at a balanced judgment as to where the public interest lies. Your department's arguments clearly failed to convince. I note that you chose not to exercise your right of further appeal to the upper tribunal."
> Graham added that he did "not for a moment" accept that publication facilitated intimidation. "I will join you in defending the right of anyone to oppose (or support) government policy. But I will also defend the operation of the Freedom of Information Act in the public interest."


 
I like his tone; Gove pwned!


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Mar 24, 2013)

If you was unsure before, it's now been confirmed. Michael Gove, totally fucking nuts: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ies-promise-opposing-plans.html#ixzz2ORgnjaIp


----------



## 8115 (Mar 24, 2013)

I might put a bet on Gove lasting till Christmas.


----------



## 8115 (Mar 24, 2013)

Divisive Cotton said:


> If you was unsure before, it's now been confirmed. Michael Gove, totally fucking nuts: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...ies-promise-opposing-plans.html#ixzz2ORgnjaIp


 
Marxist enemies of promise


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Mar 24, 2013)

The The Enemies Of Promise, The Blob, The Red Planet. He should have thrown in the Jewish conspiracy and been done with it.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 24, 2013)

A sensible political leadership would have some well thought out plans backed with research and evidence and launch a pilot scheme.
 But apprantly thats tooo much like hard work so we will wank off to ayn rand themed porn take drugs and come up with some shit on the way into the office


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2013)

one of the governments most objectionable wreckers and thats some distinction given that he's up against some prize winning wankers to take the cunts crown


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 24, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> one of the governments most objectionable wreckers and thats some distinction given that he's up against some prize winning wankers to take the cunts crown


 
Yup, and another ambitious-as-fuck tosser with no talent to back that ambition. As a journalist he was a hack. As a politician he's a hack.


----------



## Wilson (Mar 24, 2013)

*Michael Gove wants climate change off the curriculum*




> Under the government’s new plans, children will not be taught about the impacts of climate change unless they study GCSE Geography - a course that was only taken by 27% of GCSE students last year.


 
http://blog.38degrees.org.uk/2013/0...rChange+(38+Degrees+-+people.+power.+change.)


----------



## Delroy Booth (Mar 25, 2013)

Michael Gove is out of his fucking mind I swear to god. All this is him living out his vainglorious miners strike moment with the teachers, getting himself in line for when Cameron goes.

On a totally unrelated note, what newspapers were behind the Lucy Meadows harassment again, I forget? oh yeah it was the Daily Mail and The Sun. I'm sure the timing of Littlejohn's attack piece had nothing to do with Gove's lot.


----------



## Balbi (Mar 25, 2013)

He's a loopy genius. My Marxism is based on my hatred of marking.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 25, 2013)

he really outdid himself with that foreward to the good book, breathtaking arrogance


----------



## DexterTCN (Mar 25, 2013)

The official tory education twitter account seems to have been interesting lately.

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/0...ount-goes-on-wild-rant-against-suzanne-moore/

@suzanne_moore You’re rattled cos u know you’ve committed Hack Fuckup 101, basing article on wrong facts, I double dare u to call DfE
— Tory education news (@toryeducation) March 25, 2013


----------



## likesfish (Mar 26, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> he really outdid himself with that foreward to the good book, breathtaking arrogance



Doesnt that count as heresy?
 Isnt there a bit in the bible where your not supposed to add or remove bits from gods word?
 Bit sketchy on the details.

But come the peoples court a charge of heresy might get a cheap laugh?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 26, 2013)

it states in revelation of st john that he who either adds or takes away from the text is damned to burn in the next life. personally i'd like to see gove burn in this one as well


----------



## ymu (Mar 26, 2013)

DexterTCN said:


> The official tory education twitter account seems to have been interesting lately.
> 
> http://liberalconspiracy.org/2013/0...ount-goes-on-wild-rant-against-suzanne-moore/
> 
> ...


They're on the ropes.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2013)

Looks like Gove has penned something for the torygraph today...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/...-be-left-out-of-the-classroom-Mrs-Blower.html



> Perhaps the biggest laugh I have had recently has been listening to Christine Blower, the general secretary of the NUT, referring to teaching as a “profession".
> Anybody following the resolutions and debate at the union’s conference in Liverpool would realise the teachers had more in common with the dockers of the Sixties or the miners of the Eighties than professionals.
> Fewer hours in the classroom, more time in the staff room, higher pay. Is that all? Most teachers seem to think work is something you do between your sick days and your holidays. I would be interested to know if the delegates were still being paid by their school to spout this idle rubbish. Perhaps you might email me.
> 
> ...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 18, 2013)

Gove's latest 'wheeze' to break the will of the teaching profession:-



> The Education Secretary said all schools should follow the example set in the Far East where pupils are expected to follow a longer day and get less time off.
> In a speech, he warned that the current shape of the academic year was created to fit the needs of an agricultural economy, with pupils taking time off in October to help gather the potato harvest.
> The lack of time spent in the classroom is particularly damaging to children from poor backgrounds, Mr Gove said.
> Some of the Government’s flagship academies – state schools run independent of local council controls – are using their independence to reform the school day, he said.
> ...


 
Should hasten quite a few more departures of experienced, 'expensive' staff, which is, I'm sure, all part of the plan behind this populist stuff. I'd imagine that many parents will gladly line-up behind this one.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 18, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Gove's latest 'wheeze' to break the will of the teaching profession:-
> 
> Should hasten quite a few more departures of experienced, 'expensive' staff, which is, I'm sure, all part of the plan behind this populist stuff. I'd imagine that many parents will gladly line-up behind this one.


 
Yep. Independent schools will of course be keeping their much-needed longer holidays. The more he fucks up the state sector, the more chance there is that teachers will be forced out altogether or start to think about teaching in the independent sector.


----------



## Dr Jon (Apr 18, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Gove's latest 'wheeze' to break the will of the teaching profession


Typical Tory bollocks. Work harder, not smarter...


Where do they find these arseholes?


----------



## chilango (Apr 19, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Gove's latest 'wheeze' to break the will of the teaching profession:-
> Should hasten quite a few more departures of experienced, 'expensive' staff, which is, I'm sure, all part of the plan behind this populist stuff. I'd imagine that many parents will gladly line-up behind this one.



The Mexican education ministry did his a few years back. 

They lengthened the school year so that it was exactly the same as Japan's.

It didn't work, obviously.


----------



## chilango (Apr 19, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Yep. Independent schools will of course be keeping their much-needed longer holidays. The more he fucks up the state sector, the more chance there is that teachers will be forced out altogether or start to think about teaching in the independent sector.



I wouldn't be too concerned with that.

Many independent schools "make up" for their longer holidays with longer school days and classes on Saturdays.

Also, they're (by and large) not going to be all that interested in former state teachers unless they "fit the profile".


----------



## nagapie (Apr 19, 2013)

chilango said:


> I wouldn't be too concerned with that.
> 
> Many independent schools "make up" for their longer holidays with longer school days and classes on Saturdays.
> 
> Also, they're (by and large) not going to be all that interested in former state teachers unless they "fit the profile".


 
Most state schools have longer days too. The majority of subjects offer after school classes, run detentions and have meetings about 3 out of 5 days. It's a myth that those at state schools leave earlier. Let him make the day longer, but only if he pays us for every hour he works. (Not being totally serious, if he makes the days longer and the holidays shorter, I'm out, teaching's hard enough as it is). 

What didn't work about lengthening the days in Mexico? Did they keep them longer?


----------



## chilango (Apr 19, 2013)

nagapie said:


> What didn't work about lengthening the days in Mexico? Did they keep them longer?



Kids were knackered, teachers were knackered. Parents taking kids out of school for family holidays.

The last few weeks of each term were a write off.


----------



## nagapie (Apr 19, 2013)

chilango said:


> Kids were knackered, teachers were knackered. Parents taking kids out of school for family holidays.
> 
> The last few weeks of each term were a write off.


 
So did they revert back?


----------



## DJ Squelch (Apr 19, 2013)

If they shorten school holidays that would mean support staff who only get paid for term only would have to get a pay increase for the extra days worked. I imagine Gove would try to wiggle out of paying them any extra though


----------



## chilango (Apr 19, 2013)

nagapie said:


> So did they revert back?



Nope.

Not while I was there anyway.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 19, 2013)

The Academy some of my daughter's friends go to has much longer holidays and much shorter teaching hours than my daughter's normal school. Last Summer they finished teaching in June, but still only went back in September - after my daughter's school.

This school employs a lot of staff on hourly and weekly rates, including teachers (via agencies as "temp" staff who have been there for years). Any school can hire staff on this basis, but if you have to be open for the actual normal school year, then you have to pay for staff all that time. The academy can dictate their own school year, so  they save money by being open less often.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 19, 2013)

In the abscence of industrial shock-troops of the labour movement, Gove's provocation of the teaching unions seems to cast them as the coalition's miners. Have they already strategically stockpiled a couple of years worth of exam passes around the country? I suppose the next step will be the appointment of some trans-Atlantic neo-liberal 'CEO' for the newly privatised schools?


----------



## Balbi (Apr 19, 2013)

brogdale said:


> In the abscence of industrial shock-troops of the labour movement, Gove's provocation of the teaching unions seems to cast them as the coalition's miners. Have they already strategically stockpiled a couple of years worth of exam passes around the country? I suppose the next step will be the appointment of some trans-Atlantic neo-liberal 'CEO' for the newly privatised schools?


 
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/mar/10/free-school-head-no-qualification

Done already. Good luck to her getting an ounce of respect from her staff.


----------



## chilango (Apr 19, 2013)

They've stockpiled replacement teachers though.

There's a few years backlog of NQTs trying to get jobs, plus schools can often hire unqualified people iln place of teachers now.

I've often thought that this govt would like to try and break the teaching unions like it tried with the NUM.

...Gove would make sense then. A provocation. Trying to goad the NUT Into a showdown.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 19, 2013)

chilango said:


> They've stockpiled replacement teachers though.
> 
> There's a few years backlog of NQTs trying to get jobs, plus schools can often hire unqualified people iln place of teachers now.
> 
> ...


 
Of course that's what he's trying to do. Smash up and privatise all education like everything else. That's the coalition's raison d'etre.


----------



## chilango (Apr 19, 2013)

chilango said:


> Kids were knackered, teachers were knackered. Parents taking kids out of school for family holidays.
> 
> The last few weeks of each term were a write off.



The autumn term lasted from mid-August to a few days before Christmas with no half term. You might get a couple of long weekends if the bank holidays fell nicely. But the whole of December was useless kids and staff dropping like flies and time being filled with made up activities for half empty classes.


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## chilango (Apr 19, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Of course that's what he's trying to do. Smash up and privatise all education like everything else. That's the coalition's raison d'etre.



Oh I know.

It's that they might actually be trying to actively provoke a big teachers strike that is piquing my curiosity now.


----------



## Ceej (Apr 20, 2013)

Year 6 kids in school today wrote letters to Gove protesting against changes to the Geography curriculum, limiting the area of study. Lots of stuff about children wanting to know more about their heritage countries etc, but one bright spark wrote: 'Dear Mr Gove, I looked up the definition of 'geography' in the dictionary says it is the study of the culture and landscapes of the countries of the world. Do you know your new curriculum doesn't even meet the dictionary definiton of the word? Maybe your school wasn't as good as mine.'
Good girl.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 20, 2013)

I know something I'd like to shorten. If Gove wants to know what it is perhaps he ought to read up on the history of the French revolution.


----------



## frogwoman (Apr 20, 2013)

I love Robespierre <3 xxx

/dc


----------



## DJ Squelch (Apr 20, 2013)

http://www.bexhillobserver.net/news...for-the-school-children-and-parents-1-4460654


> *10/11/2012*
> BEXHILL High officially became an Academy on Thursday November 1. Executive Principal Mike Conn announced to staff during half-term: “I am pleased to advise you that we have received written confirmation from the Secretary of State for Education Michael Gove that we may convert to Academy status and that, from today, we are part of the Prospects Academies Trust.
> Bexhill High was judged to be ‘satsifactory’ when Ofsted last visited so it has to enter in a formal partnership with another good educational establishment, in this case Prospects Academies Trust.
> The new policy is about spreading good practice from the best schools. Education Secretary Michael Gove says academies will drive up standards by putting more power in the hands of head teachers and cutting bureaucracy, and claims they have been shown to improve twice as fast as other state schools.


 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-22219016


> *19 April 2013*
> Bexhill High School was rated inadequate in an Ofsted report, which said it was failing to give students an acceptable standard of education.
> The document said the standard of work was below average in all year groups and in most subjects.
> Greg Barker MP said early indications for this year's GCSEs were encouraging.
> ...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2013)

Mr Void hits a rich seam of purple prose in his latest post on Gove's 'workfare schools' plan...



> Rarely has there been a better example of one rule for them and another for the rest of us than Michael Gove’s latest plan to slash school holidays.
> Gove wants the UK to be more like China and is intent of wringing every last scrap of joy from the lives of anyone who isn’t rich. Now the Summer holidays are in his sights as his fake concern for children masks a desire to cut childcare costs and make it easier for bosses to exploit parents.
> The Education Secretary has previously claimed that children suffer a ‘learning loss’ over the Summer holiday. Yet children at private schools, like the one he went to, are barely ever required to turn up.
> Eton College closes for the Summer this year at 1pm on Friday 28th June. Students will not return until the 3rd of September. The children are groomed for the gruelling life of being a posh twat by swanning off on holiday for just under an astonishing 10 weeks.
> ...


 
Yep.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 20, 2013)

Yeah, this latest arse about teachers being expected to work longer hours to "to make life easier" for families seems to me as though what it really means (using Gove's nutjob vernacular) is "using the non-productive sector to make it easier for Wealth Creators to keep their drones at work longer with less bothersome inconvenience from their kids". 

But teachers with families? How the fuck is it going to make anything easier for them? My wife already works 7.30-5.00 most days (admittedly as a dept. head she has a fair few meetings to go to but loads of teachers do extra-curricular stuff too) and Sunday, shit, if she does less than 6 hours on a Sunday it's a minor miracle. Add to that the up-til-1-or-2-a.m. of a suddenly-sprung Ofsted visit or lesson observation and I can hardly see where she has time to do any more work without only ever seeing her family during the holidays.


----------



## Sweet FA (Apr 20, 2013)

S☼I said:


> But teachers with families? How the fuck is it going to make anything easier for them? My wife already works 7.30-5.00 most days (admittedly as a dept. head she has a fair few meetings to go to but loads of teachers do extra-curricular stuff too) and Sunday, shit, if she does less than 6 hours on a Sunday it's a minor miracle. Add to that the up-til-1-or-2-a.m. of a suddenly-sprung Ofsted visit or lesson observation and I can hardly see where she has time to do any more work without only ever seeing her family during the holidays.


Exactly why I jacked it and went supply. I was working at least 8-5 at school then a couple of hours at home + 1 day at the weekend. Like you say, that's just 'normal'; HMI/Ofsted/LA visits bump everything up to even more lunatic levels.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 20, 2013)

Sweet FA said:


> Exactly why I jacked it and went supply. I was working at least 8-5 at school then a couple of hours at home + 1 day at the weekend. Like you say, that's just 'normal'; HMI/Ofsted/LA visits bump everything up to even more lunatic levels.


 
Really. How's that working out? Isn't it more stressful going to new places all the time?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 20, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Really. How's that working out? Isn't it more stressful going to new places all the time?


 
Yeah, I've seen what happens to most supplies.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 20, 2013)

I used to do supply - if your classroom management is good it's a piece of piss, tbh.

But, when they changed the aw to allow unqualified 'cover supervisors' to take classes, i didn't get work every day.


----------



## Sweet FA (Apr 20, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Really. How's that working out? Isn't it more stressful going to new places all the time?


 
Off the top of my head;


Upsides:

new place every day
more actual teaching time
if it's crap, you're only there for 1 day
no reams of assessment
no planning
no after school clubs
no pre-school meetings
no taking work home
no weekend work
 
Downsides:

new place every day
massive pay cut
no holiday pay
no sick pay
no pension
no staffroom camaraderie
no children of your own
In the end, I now get to see my wife and child way more. At one point, my own child came in 32nd after all the children in my class...now she's back at number 1


----------



## Sweet FA (Apr 20, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> I used to do supply - if your classroom management is good it's a piece of piss, tbh.
> 
> But, when they changed the aw to allow unqualified 'cover supervisors' to take classes, i didn't get work every day.


Yup. Though because Gove's such a colossal cunt and the job's getting even more pressurised and stressful, there's even more teacher absence and more supply work.


----------



## chilango (Apr 20, 2013)

S☼I said:


> Yeah, this latest arse about teachers being expected to work longer hours to "to make life easier" for families seems to me as though what it really means (using Gove's nutjob vernacular) is "using the non-productive sector to make it easier for Wealth Creators to keep their drones at work longer with less bothersome inconvenience from their kids".
> 
> But teachers with families? How the fuck is it going to make anything easier for them? My wife already works 7.30-5.00 most days (admittedly as a dept. head she has a fair few meetings to go to but loads of teachers do extra-curricular stuff too) and Sunday, shit, if she does less than 6 hours on a Sunday it's a minor miracle. Add to that the up-til-1-or-2-a.m. of a suddenly-sprung Ofsted visit or lesson observation and I can hardly see where she has time to do any more work without only ever seeing her family during the holidays.



Yup.

That's why despite loving teaching, and being good at it, I won't be too upset if not getting back into a teaching job leads me into other lines of work.

My other half works 6 days a week teaching and doesn't see our daughter for more than a few minutes in the mornings and half an hour or so in the evenings on a normal work day. It's not fair on either of them.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 20, 2013)

chilango said:


> Yup.
> 
> That's why despite loving teaching, and being good at it, I won't be too upset if not getting back into a teaching job leads me into other lines of work.
> 
> My other half works 6 days a week teaching and doesn't see our daughter for more than a few minutes in the mornings and half an hour or so in the evenings on a normal work day. It's not fair on either of them.


 
Aye. I'm doing a degree so I can BECOME a teacher - of maybe 9 & 10 yr olds. The more this bunch of fucks are in charge the less I feel like doing it. But I REALLY want to.


----------



## chilango (Apr 20, 2013)

S☼I said:


> Aye. I'm doing a degree so I can BECOME a teacher - of maybe 9 & 10 yr olds. The more this bunch of fucks are in charge the less I feel like doing it. But I REALLY want to.





Teaching can be fantastic. 

Shameful that the govt and media have decided to declare war on teachers.


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 20, 2013)

S☼I said:


> Yeah, this latest arse about teachers being expected to work longer hours to "to make life easier" for families seems to me as though what it really means (using Gove's nutjob vernacular) is "using the non-productive sector to make it easier for Wealth Creators to keep their drones at work longer with less bothersome inconvenience from their kids".
> 
> But teachers with families? How the fuck is it going to make anything easier for them? My wife already works 7.30-5.00 most days (admittedly as a dept. head she has a fair few meetings to go to but loads of teachers do extra-curricular stuff too) and Sunday, shit, if she does less than 6 hours on a Sunday it's a minor miracle. Add to that the up-til-1-or-2-a.m. of a suddenly-sprung Ofsted visit or lesson observation and I can hardly see where she has time to do any more work without only ever seeing her family during the holidays.


As if this even occurs to someone like Gove. He probably thinks they get to go home at three o clock every day.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 20, 2013)

Sweet FA said:


> Off the top of my head;
> 
> 
> Upsides:
> ...



I did the same for the same reason. The work itself was actually fine - way less difficult than I expected in terms of classroom management. I'd be doing it again now if it weren't for my health.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 20, 2013)

S☼I said:


> Aye. I'm doing a degree so I can BECOME a teacher - of maybe 9 & 10 yr olds. The more this bunch of fucks are in charge the less I feel like doing it. But I REALLY want to.


 
Hopefully, by the time you are qualified, the coalition will have been comprehensively (oh, yes) booted out of office.


----------



## Dr Jon (Apr 20, 2013)

Hmmm.

I was thinking about switching to a career in teaching, especially as they're offering a 'King's shilling' of £20k to join up to teach STEM subjects.  The blah-blah on the 'get into teaching' website lists holidays as one of the key benefits, ffs.
 

After reading what these stupid Tory cunts are planning, I won't bother to apply.  
Yet another own-goal from this incompetent shower of twats.


----------



## nagapie (Apr 20, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Hopefully, by the time you are qualified, the coalition will have been comprehensively (oh, yes) booted out of office.


 
Well if Labour come in they won't reverse anything? I mean they wouldn't even reverse the bedroom tax ffs!


----------



## chilango (Apr 20, 2013)

Dr Jon said:


> Hmmm.
> 
> I was thinking about switching to a career in teaching, especially as they're offering a 'King's shilling' of £20k to join up to teach STEM subjects.  The blah-blah on the 'get into teaching' website lists holidays as one of the key benefits, ffs.
> 
> ...



They' re getting so over obsessed about STEM subjects etc. that I can guarantee that in a few years time the pendulum will swing violently back the other way with the right bemoaning the lack of cultural knowledge in things like classical music, art history etc etc and the left banging about Britain's creative economy falling behind...

...and then for a few brief years the art and drama teachers cast aside today will inherit the earth.


Until the pendulum swings back the other way.

Stability and continuity doesn't sell papers, build careers for educational experts or boost the fragile egos of politicians.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 20, 2013)

chilango said:


> They' re getting so over obsessed about STEM subjects etc. that I can guarantee that in a few years time the pendulum will swing violently back the other way with the right bemoaning the lack of cultural knowledge in things like classical music, art history etc etc and the left banging about Britain's creative economy falling behind...
> 
> ...and then for a few brief years the art and drama teachers cast aside today will inherit the earth.
> 
> ...


You sure? 

I am struggling to get my head around the idea that Gove et al would _ever_ stoop so low as to bring back the corduroy-jacketed brigade!

And, in any event, I think this particular branch of the Conservative evolutionary (I use the word advisedly) tree regards any form of culture as an optional add-on, for the purposes of giving one an opportunity to parade one's wealth, not a necessary part of a nation's cultural heritage. I would imagine that Cameron takes his iPad to the opera, and Osborne always makes sure he's got a box with a very level and smooth handrail, all the better to snort his Bolivian Marching Powder up from, through any £20 notes he hasn't burned in front of dossers he passed from limousine to opera house door...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 20, 2013)

chilango said:


> They' re getting so over obsessed about STEM subjects etc. that I can guarantee that in a few years time the pendulum will swing violently back the other way with the right bemoaning the lack of cultural knowledge in things like classical music, art history etc etc and the left banging about Britain's creative economy falling behind...
> 
> ...and then for a few brief years the art and drama teachers cast aside today will inherit the earth.
> 
> ...


 
Yep, but either way the social sciences that afford some socio-political analysis wither on the vine.

It recalls the 'education' offered to the worker's children by the Iron Masters of the South Wales Coalfield; they were instructed in the three 'Rs'....reading, (w)riting and _religion. _Rithmatic would have been dangerous in their hands; they might then have been abale to question the starvation wages and inflated costs of the tally-shop.


----------



## Dr Jon (Apr 21, 2013)

I suppose the good thing about this is that a whole generation will grow up hating the robbing, lying, _holiday-thief_ Tories.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 21, 2013)

There's one planned academy expansion that's not going down well with the tory grass-roots...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/apr/21/labour-race-row-west-sussex-academy



> The Durand Academy in Stockwell, south London, plans to open a boarding school for 600 students in Stedham village. The move is being backed by the Department for Education, which describes the plan as an "inspirational project". However, some Stedham residents are reported to be bitterly opposed to the academy, which will occupy an 8-hectare (20-acre) site that used to be a school for children with special needs.
> John Cherry, the district councillor for Stedham ward, told the Mail on Sunday he had serious concerns about the effect the London pupils would have on the area.
> "Ninety-seven per cent of pupils will be black or Asian," he said. "It depends what type of Asian. If they're Chinese, they'll rise to the top. If they're Indian they'll rise to the top. If they're Pakistani they won't."
> He said while there were certain nationalities who valued hard work, there were also "certain nationalities where they are uncertain what this hard work is all about".


 
There's more bigotted claptrap from Cherry if you can bare it...

Nasty.


----------



## nagapie (Apr 21, 2013)

brogdale said:


> There's one planned academy expansion that's not going down well with the tory grass-roots...
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/apr/21/labour-race-row-west-sussex-academy
> 
> ...


 
Horrible. And the premise of the academy is horrible too: offer the poor kids a boarding school as their parents clearly aren't fit to look after them and educate them properly. Fuck Stedham, fuck the Academy and fuck boarding schools.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 24, 2013)

The tax avoidance is unsurprising, and pretty much par for the course for these sociopaths, but the fact that they're doing it whilst undertaking a task like this...



> Academy brokers, _*whose role is to convince headteachers to join the academies programme,*_ are employed ‘off book’ as ‘advisors’ by the Department of Education through personal service companies or employment agencies.
> Some are employed on contracts of up to £1,080 a day - an income equivalent to almost £250,000 a year - which run for up to 10 years.
> 
> Instead, the academy brokers, *who visit schools failing to meet targets to encourage them to become academies and arrange sponsorship deals, have their salaries paid as fees into personal companies. *
> ...


 
ffs

I am a peacable type, but really....


----------



## Dave Mullen (Apr 25, 2013)

Apologies, I haven't read everything on the thread so I am not sure if anyone else has mentioned this. I wouldn't trust Michael Gove near children of any age. I'm in my late forties and he creeps me out,


----------



## chilango (Apr 25, 2013)

chilango said:


> The Mexican education ministry did his a few years back.
> 
> They lengthened the school year so that it was exactly the same as Japan's.
> 
> It didn't work, obviously.



Talking of Mexican teachers...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-22289368

...here's one way to fight education reforms.


----------



## DJ Squelch (May 3, 2013)

*Michael Gove fixated with the size of Mick Jagger's penis, claims wife*

http://www.nme.com/news/the-rolling-stones/70092?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=pflames#bvl4mJW4kdPQP7Dz.99


----------



## teqniq (May 10, 2013)

The linked article accompanying this headline is to be found on the Fail's site, quelle surprise

Imagine Hitler as one of the Mr Men: Michael Gove slams history teaching in scathing attack on 'play-based' lessons







As an antidote this really made me chuckle:

Mr Gove


----------



## stavros (May 12, 2013)

On Andrew Marr this morning, he looked to be doing some early positioning for a leadership battle after the next election, saying explictly he'd vote for the UK to come out of the EU, distinguishing himself from Cameron and brown-nosing the Euro-phobic press.


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2013)

stavros said:


> On Andrew Marr this morning, he looked to be doing some early positioning for a leadership battle after the next election, saying explictly he'd vote for the UK to come out of the EU, distinguishing himself from Cameron and brown-nosing the Euro-phobic press.


 
To be fair to Gove, he has consistently been grandstanding for future leadership since day 1 of the coalition; this morning was merely another, albeit important, bid for support from the right of the party. It seems that Hammond felt compelled to match Gove's europhobe positioning as the leadership contest starts to hot up. So far it looks like Gove, Hammond and May regard themselves as suitable leaders of the opposition.

Meanwhile tory watchers like Prof Bale are effectively writing Dave's political obituary..



> ... even members of the government are being given a free vote (in the case of the lowest of the low) and permission to abstain (in the case of the higher ups) – truly the last refuge of the whips when they realise that they've lost all hope of controlling the situation and are seeking simply to render their leader's embarrassment slightly less excruciating.
> 
> When Cameron wielded the UK's veto in December 2011, he was lauded by many Conservatives as a lion. When he made his promise of a post-election referendum back in January this year, they feted him as a fox. Turns out he was neither, and that *he's now in danger of making himself a laughing stock. Coming back from that is going to be very difficult indeed.*
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/12/david-cameron-michael-gove-europe-referendum


----------



## butchersapron (May 13, 2013)

Gove's claims from TV fiction survey



> Freedom of information request reveals use of polls by UKTV Gold, Premier Inns and London Mums magazine
> 
> The education secretary, Michael Gove, has come under fire for citing PR-commissioned opinion polls as evidence of teenagers' ignorance of important historical events.


 



> Establishing the quality of different types of evidence, and of different source material, is a core component of the national curriculum for history.
> 
> The current history curriculum for 11- to 14-year-olds states students should learn to "evaluate the sources used in order to reach reasoned conclusions", while the draft curriculum for history from 2014 notes students should "understand how evidence is used rigorously to make historical claims".


----------



## brogdale (May 13, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Gove's claims from TV fiction survey


 
Top marks Janet Downs.


----------



## stavros (May 14, 2013)

brogdale said:


> So far it looks like Gove, Hammond and May regard themselves as suitable leaders of the opposition.


 
Plus a certain Mr Johnson, however much he may deny it.


----------



## brogdale (May 18, 2013)

Yes, he got booed and heckled at the NAHT, but the reality of his programme is of more significance:-

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/may/18/academy-pays-for-us-curriculum



> An academy running four schools is paying its US parent company £100,000 a year to use its patented global curriculum, which has been criticised by Ofsted for lacking a "local" focus.
> Aurora Academies Trust insists that the Paragon curriculum is transforming the fortunes of the primary schools in East Sussex. But unions and local Labour activists question whether the licensing deal represents the first step in plans to allow private companies to run schools for profit. Tory modernisers are said to be keen on the idea.
> Aurora's progress will be studied closely by education experts. It has "lead sponsor" status with the Department for Education, meaning it is consulted on policy decisions and is likely to run more schools in the future.
> Aurora's decision last autumn to take over the four schools – King Offa and Glenleigh Park in Bexhill and Heron Park and Oakwood in Eastbourne – came after education secretary Michael Gove criticised the local authority for "failing actively to pursue sponsored academy solutions".
> ...


 
Those fuckers must be in dreamland.


----------



## J Ed (May 18, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Yes, he got booed and heckled at the NAHT, but the reality of his programme are of more significance:-
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/may/18/academy-pays-for-us-curriculum
> 
> ...


 
Jesus Christ. This government is just one long series of scams and thefts. I _hate_ them.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (May 19, 2013)

LOL - one of the cliche wielding tory apologist loons on Facebook was denouncing the NAHT as a typical leftie public sector union. He was more concerned with that than any of the issues of course. 

Headteachers are often pretty conservative in fact, I'm very impressed with the frosty reception they gave this appalling individual.

Gove just has to put on a rosette every 5 years and kiss arse to keep his job. If he could have all aspects of his work thoroughly inspected at next to no notice he'd probably shit it, even with his much-longer-than-teacher's holidays.

The NAHT cited a culture of bullying and stress. This is also known as a "tory culture" - a product of economic success I think.


----------



## Gmart (May 20, 2013)

chilango said:


> They've stockpiled replacement teachers though.
> 
> There's a few years backlog of NQTs trying to get jobs, plus schools can often hire unqualified people iln place of teachers now.
> 
> ...


 
Working abroad is a fine option, the pay is good, the extra hours are minimal and the demand for English speaking teachers is high because English is the international language. If Gove and his ilk are keen to restrict the supply of qualified teachers then they could hardly do better.

Maybe the time has finally come to have only one teaching union, or to at least work together? The problem is that if he wants a fight, then the teachers are easy to paint as the baddies, helped by the press. 

The idea of 'better standards' is fine (if simplistic), and evidently needed, and yet he fails to address other issues (like over centralisation) which are less easy to solve. He would do better to learn how to empower the teachers to do their job better, rather than coming from a position of the teachers being the problem.

Gove has deliberately focused on only the problems which are his favourites, while refusing to engage in discussion with teachers who insist on a broader picture. His dismissal of them as 'lefties' shows a failure to recognise this as an 'ad hominem' fallacy and is disrespectful, pugnacious and obstructive to say the least.


----------



## brogdale (May 20, 2013)

Is Gove unwell?

I've looked, but I can't see any new,mad policy announcement this morning.


----------



## spanglechick (May 20, 2013)

Gmart said:


> The idea of 'better standards' is fine (if simplistic), and evidently needed.



Other than the sense in which we should always aim to be better, what makes you say that this is "evidently needed"? What evidence are you basing it on?


----------



## Gmart (May 20, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> Other than the sense in which we should always aim to be better, what makes you say that this is "evidently needed"? What evidence are you basing it on?


 
Is there a need for any more than that? There are always sad stories of kids falling through the net no matter how hard the teachers/parents etc work, or how effective the system is.
That is why Gove is being relatively effective in some parts of the electorate - he is stating some obvious truths, and then using the 'yes' he gets to justify whatever he wants.
Better questions might be about who decides what about education? He doesn't want to empower teachers and schools because he doesn't trust them, and so he is using that 'yes' to undermine the existing education (more). He is playing to a part of the electorate who just sees problems in society all around them, and wants someone in authority to 'fix' them, and they don't care how he does it.
He is also playing to the 'ought to be in the bloody army' brigade which makes up a large part of Conservative thought.


----------



## brogdale (May 22, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Is Gove unwell?
> 
> I've looked, but I can't see any new,mad policy announcement this morning.


 
Well again! 

Today's announcement adds to the canon of swivel-eyed, neo-liberal loonery in schools.

So, 102 new "Free" schools are given the go-ahead, (less than last year), with fully 15 of them so 'free' that parents have to claim that their offspring holds a specific super-natural belief system.

Rather revealingly, one of the new prospective head-teachers apparently beleives he's discovered a brand new, radical approach to pedagogy; he's going to offer.....cross-curricular education!



> "We'll be still be teaching the national curriculum, the kids will still be doing GCSEs and A-levels. But the way we deliver the curriculum will be totally different," Harri said.
> "If you want, for instance, an investigation into the wildlife in your back garden, there are loads and loads of different subjects you can cover within that. You can do maths in terms of the size of the garden, how many samples you can find, what percentage that is," he said. "Then there's the history of the place, the geography, biology, that sort of thing. So you can learn through a really wide project or expedition."
> XP will be _*unorthodox in other ways too*_.


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2013)

"Our Dear Education Secretary" has branched out into popular music to aid his revolution in state education...


----------



## The Pale King (May 31, 2013)

A timely reminder of what happens when you sell off public services:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/may/31/free-schools-education

and a photo of the education secretary looking very jowly.


----------



## brogdale (May 31, 2013)

The Pale King said:


> A timely reminder of what happens when you sell off public services:
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/may/31/free-schools-education
> 
> and a photo of the education secretary looking very jowly.


 
The real mystery has to be....why didn't JB Education just replace some the un-productive lesson time with some practical, hands-on, work experience type of manufacturing. Surely they'd have quickly been able to turn those losses into profits and dividends for their shareholders. Don't these lefty Swedes know anything about capitalism?


----------



## Barking_Mad (Jun 5, 2013)

> A disgraced RE teacher who was sacked for possessing indecent images of children has been given the go-ahead to carry on teaching by Education Secretary Michael Gove.
> Geoffrey Bettley, 36, was dismissed from his ten-year career at St Mary’s Catholic School in Menston, West Yorkshire, after he accepted a police caution.
> Mr Gove has now supported a disciplinary panel’s recommendation that he does not pose a risk to children and that he should be able to resume his teaching career.
> But MP Phillip Davies has raised concerns about the ‘worrying situation’ and warned that it will make parents feel ‘uneasy’.
> The National College of Teaching and Leadership professional conduct panel ruled that the child abuse images were at the lower end of seriousness and that Bettley, who had ‘shown remorse and victim empathy’, did not pose a risk.





http://theneedleblog.wordpress.com/2013/06/05/michael-gove-clears-sex-offender-to-teach/


----------



## Nylock (Jun 6, 2013)




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## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2013)

> St Mary’s Catholic School in Menston


 
I know my plastic sectarianism is worthy of only contempt, but come on


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2013)

How come 'foreward to the bible' gove is even allowed breathing privileges. Just, just no


----------



## brogdale (Jun 12, 2013)

> "By making GCSEs more demanding, more fulfilling, and more stretching we can give our young people the broad, deep and balanced education which will _*equip them to win in the global race*_," Gove told the House of Commons.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/jun/11/michael-gove-gcse-reforms


 
I think we know the full title of that race, don't we? Further evidence, if any be needed, of that 'race' from today's IFS report:-



> Britain's workers have suffered more financial pain since 2008 than in any five-year period of the modern age, according to research by a leading tax thinktank that shows employees have sacrificed pay to keep their jobs.
> Describing this downturn as the longest and deepest slump in a century, the Institute for Fiscal Studies says _*workers have suffered unprecedented pay cuts of 6% in real terms over the last five years.*_
> Historically, real wages rise by about 2% a year. This suggests that _*people are more than 15% worse off than they would have been if the pre-crisis wage trends had continued*_.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2013/jun/12/workers-deepest-cuts-real-wages-ifs


----------



## likesfish (Jun 12, 2013)

But the very rich have got  much rich victory for the strivvers rather than you shirking oiks.

Future gove policys

SAS sent in to restore order in schools
All teaching to be done in latin
Heads encouraged to use capital punishment

 it used to be that only British home secetarys went mad with power but apprantly the disease is spreading


----------



## existentialist (Jun 12, 2013)

They seem to have missed something here. 

When I was at school, we still had GCEs, which were very obviously academically oriented. But we also had CSEs, which were aimed at those who were not quite as academically able, and provided a qualification route that was more suited to the educational pathways they were more likely to follow: onward training at technical colleges, apprenticeships, or work-based training. 

Then we got GCSEs, which rolled the two in together. I didn't much like the idea, but CSEs did have an image problem, so perhaps it was an appropriate step. 

I do think that the level of government interference on GCSEs has devalued the qualification - grade inflation seems to be accepted as real, and my - albeit cursory - experience leads me to wonder whether we are failing, at the least, our higher achievers. 

But now, we're winding the clock back. Quite apart from Gove's fetishism over rote learning and classical literature, which I think is swinging the pendulum far too far the other way, I wonder what will happen to the pupils who would have been doing CSEs who are presumably now going to get lumped in with the Shakespeare and poetry crowd, and will either hate the idea before it starts, or will learn to hate it as they realise that they're scrabbling around in the lower reaches of a curriculum that has no relevance to them. 

Some will benefit, and gain something that they might not otherwise have encountered, but lots more will fall by the wayside, and become disaffected and disengaged.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 12, 2013)

existentialist said:


> Some will benefit, and gain something that they might not otherwise have encountered, but lots more will fall by the wayside, and become disaffected and disengaged.


 
Which pretty much sounds like a model of the society into which Gove wants these kids to enter.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 12, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Which pretty much sounds like a model of the society into which Gove wants these kids to enter.


And that's why I think he's a cunt. Because I cannot believe that he doesn't realise, or hasn't been told countless times, that this will be the effect of these changes.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 13, 2013)

existentialist said:


> And that's why I think he's a cunt. Because I cannot believe that he doesn't realise, or hasn't been told countless times, that this will be the effect of these changes.


 
Agreed.

More evidence of that here.

Hencke saying it like it is. Gove's ideologically fundamentalist 'localism' coming before the safety of children.



> *Michael Gove: A Paedophile’s Unwitting Friend?*
> 
> ... _*he has no intention of intervening to ensure that when children are sexually abused in the nation’s state funded and private schools that the incident should be reported.*_...he has written to Cheryl Gillan, the ex-minister and Tory MP for nearby Chesham and Amersham, saying that he is against mandatory reporting of allegations to the specific local officer  because it could ” swamp ” officialdom ” with every incident reported”. He says : ” schools should be trusted to make their own professional judgement ” to report the matter.
> 
> I am sure that Michael Gove is not a supporter of paedophilia nor am I accusing or even inferring in the headline that he is remotely sympathetic to child abusers. But _*unwittingly by not doing so he is  giving aid and comfort to those who want this hushed up. My accusation against Gove is more dereliction of duty as secretary of state for education in not providing the protection of the law for children who are sexually abused.*_ I know from other sources that the Metropolitan Police Paedophile Unit take a similar view.


----------



## where to (Jun 13, 2013)

That is an astonishing position for a politician to take in 2013, morally and pragmatically.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 13, 2013)

where to said:


> That is an astonishing position for a politician to take in 2013, morally and pragmatically.


 
Agreed, but look at the thread title!

This is no bog-standard, ordinary politician; we're talking about the iconoclast, the maverick, the brave crusader of the neo-liberal revolution. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the next Leader of the opposition.


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 13, 2013)

> St Mary’s Catholic School in Menston


 
Didn't one of the Kaiser Chiefs go there? That's down the road from my kid's special school, opposite High Royds. Prob best state school in Leeds.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 13, 2013)




----------



## likesfish (Jun 14, 2013)

The cowley club in brighton has a wonderful mock maoist poster of groves revolutoriry 
3 step plan


----------



## Streathamite (Jun 14, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome the next Leader of the opposition.


I very much hope you're right - that's the most surefire way to keep the Tories out of power for a generation


----------



## brogdale (Jun 15, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/jun/15/twigg-gove-unqualified-teachers-sack



> More than 5,000 untrained teachers who have been allowed to work in academies and free schools under Michael Gove's education reforms will be sacked if Labour wins the next election, unless they gain a formal qualification within two years.
> The proposal is one of several to be announced by the shadow education secretary, Stephen Twigg...


 
Yep, all fine and dandy...in fact, a policy idea that actually makes sense...but it takes 3 years to draw this sort of response?


----------



## Nylock (Jun 16, 2013)

existentialist said:


> I do think that the level of government interference on GCSEs has devalued the qualification - grade inflation seems to be accepted as real, and my - albeit cursory - experience leads me to wonder whether we are failing, at the least, our higher achievers.


 
Surely 'Grade Inflation' is a result of an assessment system that looks at performance over time in equal weight to an exam (i.e. 50% coursework, 50% exam work) and tests the student on a criterion rather than normative system... So if you're right, you're right, not right based on some arbitrary grade curve based on number of entrants to the exam that year...

Reverting back to a 10% coursework, 90% exam system merely places the advantage to those that can cram information in the weeks leading up to the final exam. It's a terrible indicator of performance as it merely provides a snapshot of your performance on the day as opposed to how well you actually understand the subject... 

E2A:

Those students that are the best and most gifted sit a higher tier of paper anyway, if we want to further cement that then introduce a higher tier paper that is normative rather than criterion based to be sat as part of the exam timetable... That way the old-school normative bods can have their cake and eat it... But then again we'd be  back to the days of GCE/CSE papers again innit...


----------



## nagapie (Jun 16, 2013)

brogdale said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2013/jun/15/twigg-gove-unqualified-teachers-sack
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, all fine and dandy...in fact, a policy idea that actually makes sense...but it takes 3 years to draw this sort of response?


 

What about all the unqualified teachers working in normal schools through Teach First, launched during the Labour years? More of nothing from Labour.


----------



## J Ed (Jun 20, 2013)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jun/19/free-school-fails-ofsted-gove



> One of the first free schools to open has been placed on special measures and given an inadequate rating by Ofsted inspectors, in an untimely blow to the government's flagship education policy.
> 
> Only days after Labour announced it would end the opening of free schools, curtailing a policy aggressively promoted by the education secretary, Michael Gove, Ofsted inspectors have published the highly critical report into the Discovery Free School, in Crawley, West Sussex, which opened in September 2011.
> 
> ...


 
Gove's sacrificial children to appease the market


----------



## J Ed (Jul 5, 2013)

http://www.scotsman.com/news/education/british-islands-consider-adopting-scottish-highers-1-2991028



> THE islands of Guernsey, Jersey and the Isle of Man are considering adopting Scottish Highers in favour of A levels amid concerns over English educational reform, it has emerged.
> 
> The three crown dependencies, which are autonomous from the UK but traditionally follow the English curriculum, are understood to be seeking alternatives to the current system due to fears the Westminster reforms being led by Michael Gove will damage young people’s prospects.
> Guernsey’s education leader has met with Scottish Government officials as concerns grow that English plans for end-of-year exams at 16 and 18 will put some pupils at a disadvantage.
> ...


----------



## likesfish (Jul 7, 2013)

Theres a piece in the daily mail claiming gove is declaring war on using the word gay as an insult?

Actually does something good thats rather suprising.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 7, 2013)

likesfish said:


> Theres a piece in the daily mail claiming gove is declaring war on using the word gay as an insult?
> 
> Actually does something good thats rather suprising.


 
Well-intentioned, but futile, if that's really what he's doing.

There's no better way of making sure a word stays potent than by trying to ban it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 7, 2013)

good luck with it but I fear that ship has long sailed.


----------



## nagapie (Jul 7, 2013)

Apparently Gove has just lost the battle to take climate change off the Geography syllabus. What an absolute nutjob.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 8, 2013)

nagapie said:


> Apparently Gove has just lost the battle to take climate change off the Geography syllabus. What an absolute nutjob.


Either his advisors are a bunch of complete planks, or he's not listening to them...


----------



## snadge (Jul 8, 2013)

Fractions and computer programming at 5 years old, is this man trying to force state schools to sign up for free status for his banker mates or what??

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/08/michael-gove-education-curriculum-fractions


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2013)

nagapie said:


> Apparently Gove has just lost the battle to take climate change off the Geography syllabus. What an absolute nutjob.


 

I've struggled to understand why right wingers seek to deny climate change and the only explanation I can think of is that they can't hack the idea that rampant overconsumption has consequences. So it must be a lefty plot to stop all fun and machinery.


----------



## _angel_ (Jul 8, 2013)

snadge said:


> Fractions and computer programming at 5 years old, is this man trying to force state schools to sign up for free status for his banker mates or what??
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/jul/08/michael-gove-education-curriculum-fractions


That can't happen. I couldn't even count up to 20 when I was five (I know most kids can) and struggled with addition a year afterwards.


----------



## likesfish (Jul 8, 2013)

Its home secetary disease obviously he,s been bitten and its infectious.
 Causes you to come out with more and more Authortarian ideas that are a bit random and dont even make sense.
   Usually it only becomes this virulent just before and election where the poor sod is put out of his misery but with two years to go we can look forward to grove calling in air strikes on underperfroming schools " it was neccessary to destroy the school to save it" and calling for drone strikes on teaching union leaders before he,s sectioned


----------



## teqniq (Jul 8, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I've struggled to understand why right wingers seek to deny climate change and the only explanation I can think of is that they can't hack the idea that rampant overconsumption has consequences. So it must be a lefty plot to stop all fun and machinery.


I think it is more serious than that. Kids soak up ideas like blotting paper, what he and his ilk seek to do is remove the idea of the consequences of our actions on the planet from the educational narrative; all they wish is that as adults we will all be good little consumers with little or no idea of consequences.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jul 8, 2013)

Kids are smarter than that.


----------



## nagapie (Jul 8, 2013)

Maybe the only answer it to fight him with his own ideas, set up incredibly left-leaning free schools. Someone would have to be organised enough to do it though.


----------



## frogwoman (Jul 8, 2013)

tempting as that might be I don't think that would be a good idea.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 8, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> Kids are smarter than that.


Well yes I like to think so too but I do think thats what is to some degree going on here. A bit like that creationism bollox in the states.


----------



## killer b (Jul 8, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> tempting as that might be I don't think that would be a good idea.


indeed. you can only imagine the kind of hippie scum who would end up moving in and monopolising any such school.


----------



## nagapie (Jul 8, 2013)

killer b said:


> indeed. you can only imagine the kind of hippie scum who would end up moving in and monopolising any such school.


 

Or can you imagine a highly organised leftist movement created from reception class dedicated to the principles of overthrowing capitalism, and reggae music.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2013)

killer b said:


> indeed. you can only imagine the kind of hippie scum who would end up moving in and monopolising any such school.


 

it would be woodcraft folk stamping on a human face forever

Silas Loom


----------



## existentialist (Jul 8, 2013)

teqniq said:


> I think it is more serious than that. Kids soak up ideas like blotting paper, what he and his ilk seek to do is remove the idea of the consequences of our actions on the planet from the educational narrative; all they wish is that as adults we will all be good little consumers with little or no idea of consequences.


 



seventh bullet said:


> Kids are smarter than that.


 
Yes, they are, but they aren't always as smart as they (and we) think.

And by pushing something at them that is so slanted to a particular agenda, even if they do see through it, we risk failing to offer them other things that are less agenda-laden and more useful.

One thing that troubles me about Gove's agenda is that, even though I think he has a point about the tendency to which education has rowed back from core literacy and critical thinking skills, his solution is not really a solution, but is instead a kind of warm-fields-of-the-past traditionalist attempt to claim that we can achieve critical thinking and core literacy skills by rote learning and "old-fashioned" educational techniques. To me, this is throwing away the baby with the bathwater: while some of the progressive approaches to education have meant a neglect of useful core skills, we've also come a long way in engaging and holding children's interest. I think we can keep the best bits, but improve the content, without having to wind the clock back to 1950s grammar school approaches.

1950s grammar school approaches were tolerable then, as there were roles for people who had been failed by the academic-oriented education system: we had a manufacturing industry, and non-academic jobs that didn't require high levels of literacy and numeracy to do, so we could afford to waste educational opportunity by creating an underclass of children who couldn't thrive under the prevailing system. We don't have that capacity for waste any more - we need to be able to find better ways of delivering skills that children need to be able to work in a technological and service-based workplace. And that isn't going to happen by standing kids on chairs and humiliating them into learning times tables, expecting them to read Shakespeare plays, or forcing them to learn historical facts and figures which they will see as being irrelevant to them.


----------



## nagapie (Jul 8, 2013)

existentialist said:


> One thing that troubles me about Gove's agenda is that, even though I think he has a point about the tendency to which education has rowed back from core literacy and critical thinking skills,


 
The biggest threat to teaching these things is the exam agenda. Children are constantly having to be taught how to pass these rather than real learning. Gove's agenda is to bring in more exams in the face of worldwide research about the negative impact of these on teaching and learning.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 8, 2013)

nagapie said:


> The biggest threat to teaching these things is the exam agenda. Children are constantly having to be taught how to pass these rather than real learning. Gove's agenda is to bring in more exams in the face of worldwide research about the negative impact of these on teaching and learning.


 
Just clicking "Like" didn't seem enough for this.

I agree, absolutely, and unreservedly


----------



## nagapie (Jul 8, 2013)

I've been visiting primary schools for the last month to meet students coming into our year 7 in Sept. This is a typical conversation with the year 6 teacher. 

Me: So what level is he?
Teacher: Well he got a L4 in his SAts but really he's a L3. 
Me: How does that work?
T: Well you know we work really hard on practicing and practicing and giving them loads of opportunities to get it right. So he really did get a L4 but he will probably be a L3 again by the time he gets to you. 

 Not the fault of the teachers, it's the system that's fucked. We do it for GCSEs too.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 8, 2013)

Yup, the law of unintended consequences at work there. It's what happens when you put in pretty much any measuring system - unless you are VERY careful, the measuring system becomes the tail that wags the dog.


----------



## treelover (Jul 8, 2013)

nagapie said:


> Maybe the only answer it to fight him with his own ideas, set up incredibly left-leaning free schools. Someone would have to be organised enough to do it though.


 
not unknown, there were radical free schools in London in the 70's, Davey Graham of VOHAN was involved in them.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jul 8, 2013)

existentialist said:


> 1950s grammar school approaches were tolerable then, as there were roles for people who had been failed by the academic-oriented education system: we had a manufacturing industry, and non-academic jobs that didn't require high levels of literacy and numeracy to do, so we could afford to waste educational opportunity by creating an underclass of children who couldn't thrive under the prevailing system. We don't have that capacity for waste any more - we need to be able to find better ways of delivering skills that children need to be able to work in a technological and service-based workplace. And that isn't going to happen by standing kids on chairs and humiliating them into learning times tables, expecting them to read Shakespeare plays, or forcing them to learn historical facts and figures which they will see as being irrelevant to them.


 
I think it's a lot more than that. The above was me but in the 1990s in a different educational environment, and I don't think that had anything to do with a lack of ability. People don't 'thrive' in school and a wider society skewed in other peoples' interests for a wide variety of reasons.

And there were plenty of people working in the old manufacturing industries either as unskilled or skilled manual labour who were highly literate and had a serious attitude towards education. I don't think a society at any period can afford to create an 'underclass.' And I think you're using that term too broadly indeed.

I am not some social flotsam and nor are most of the people I know. There are people who do indeed think that, though. They're ruling us now.


----------



## likesfish (Jul 8, 2013)

Grove doesnt appear, much like both political partys  big ideas to have anything to back up his apprantly crackpot ideas.
 I may be wrong but if your going to attempt radically change the way things are. isnt the idea to have some data to ack up your idea?
 Or launch a pilot study of several diffrent appraoches to actually see what works in practice and have enough balls to go " we thought this was a good idea turns out it isnt back to the drawing board"
  But then that approach rather ruins it for people fixed to any idology as the real world rather tends to ruin good ideas?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 8, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> I think it's a lot more than that. The above was me but in the 1990s in a different educational environment, and I don't think that had anything to do with a lack of ability. People don't 'thrive' in school and a wider society skewed in other peoples' interests for a wide variety of reasons.


Yes, I agree. But, since we're talking about Gove's reductive and ultra-traditionalist approaches here, I felt it wisest to stick to that aspect!



seventh bullet said:


> And there were plenty of people working in the old manufacturing industries either as unskilled or skilled manual labour who were highly literate and had a serious attitude towards education. I don't think a society at any period can afford to create an 'underclass.' And I think you're using that term too broadly indeed.


Ah. I had hoped that I had conveyed the idea that it wasn't that people were necessarily illiterate or negative about education, but that there was a tendency for an education system based on rote learning and rather narrowly-defined criteria about what should be taught and how it was taught to fail otherwise capable pupils who didn't necessarily thrive under that regime.

To some extent, I include myself in that category - I didn't "thrive" in my education, even though I was bright enough to get a free place in a grammar school. It was only quite recently, when doing some training of my own on teaching, that I came across Gregorc's work on "learning styles" (http://www.ieslearning.co.uk/mind.html) and realised that much of my own learning challenges arose from the fact that, while my learning style is an "abstract random" one, most of my traditional teaching was done on a "concrete linear" basis, leaving me rather more confused and discouraged than I needed to be, given my latent ability. For many years after I left school, I carried with me a sense of inferiority at my apparent bafflement about so much of what I had been taught, especially when I discovered that when I revisited some of that material and studied it on my own terms, I found that I *had* "got it" all along! We have come on some way in recognising different learning styles, but I fear that Gove would have us wind back the clock on that, and return us to the old-fashioned styles which, for no good reason, disadvantage those who don't happen to fit the rather narrowly-defined criteria and, as you say, favour those who think in a particular way - generally a not-particularly-creative or intuitive way, but one that's based on conformity and regurgitation of learned facts.

I've worked with and known people who had left school thinking they were "thick", and who were capable of doing far more, far more creatively, than they were doing, but who were clearly anything but thick - they had just not responded well to the ways in which they were being taught. My fear is that we will lose much of the progress we may have made in that direction.



seventh bullet said:


> I am not some social flotsam and nor are most of the people I know. There are people who do indeed think that, though. They're ruling us now.


 
Nor was it ever my intention to suggest you, or anyone else, was. I was, I thought, speaking from the voice of those who see Gove's approach as valid, rather than advocating it or endorsing it.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jul 8, 2013)

I get you. I think we have the same learning style.

I was also  interested in the underclass aspect specifically. What do you mean by the term? I think we may have different understandings of it.

I'm using a phone right now, so tedious (for me at least) to post on forums.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jul 8, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> it would be woodcraft folk stamping on a human face forever
> 
> Silas Loom



A man who will never chew again without pine dentures is in no position to mock woodcraft.


----------



## Dr Jon (Jul 8, 2013)

Good comment by Ross Anderson in the Graun:


> ...
> Gove minor, please write me 400 words on which subject requires more funding: a subject in steady state, or one in which the standards are being raised. For a first, you're expected to include an estimate of how many new computer science teachers are needed for 3,127 maintained secondary schools in England, and a plan to recruit and train them.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 9, 2013)

seventh bullet said:


> I get you. I think we have the same learning style.
> 
> I was also  interested in the underclass aspect specifically. What do you mean by the term? I think we may have different understandings of it.
> 
> I'm using a phone right now, so tedious (for me at least) to post on forums.


I suppose, reading back, that what I was thinking of when I wrote "underclass", was that group of people who end up becoming excluded from the opportunities that education brings. The word "class" wasn't meant to have the connotations of, say, "class system" - it just meant "group". 

Actually, my terminology is probably even more indistinct, as what I was really referring to was that group of people who might have been educationally engaged, but are going to be put off by Gove's reforms, as opposed to the (smaller?) group that always exists who are unlikely to fully engage with education regardless.


----------



## spanglechick (Sep 4, 2013)

i told my gcse group today that i'd like to smash Gove in the face with a big, rusty, iron spike.  at this point i'm past caring as to whether i get sacked for that.


----------



## Combustible (Sep 4, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> I've struggled to understand why right wingers seek to deny climate change and the only explanation I can think of is that they can't hack the idea that rampant overconsumption has consequences. So it must be a lefty plot to stop all fun and machinery.



It's because nobody with an ounce of sense believes there is any sort of free market solution to the climate change problem. So the only answer for a free marketeer is that climate change is false.


----------



## eoin_k (Sep 5, 2013)

Ah... no... actually, I think you'll find that the market system is fine.  This is just a small externality that is contaminating the results.  We simply have to re-adjust reality to correspond with the model and everything should be back to normal. Move along now!  Nothing to see.  etc.


----------



## Nylock (Sep 5, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> i told my gcse group today that i'd like to smash Gove in the face with a big, rusty, iron spike.  at this point i'm past caring as to whether i get sacked for that.


Can't double-like this -so quoting it instead


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Sep 5, 2013)

goldenecitrone said:


> Gove should be strangled to death with his own intestines.



I'd rather see his intestines used to strangle IBS first.


----------



## nagapie (Sep 25, 2013)

Gove has removed the speaking and listening component from the GCSE English grade, it was about 20-30%. Hurried it through over the summer with no consultation. So now ability to communicate effectively is no longer good enough because it's not a written exam. What an absolute arsehole.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Sep 25, 2013)

nagapie said:


> Gove has removed the speaking and listening component from the GCSE English grade, it was about 20-30%. Hurried it through over the summer with no consultation. So now ability to communicate effectively is no longer good enough because it's not a written exam. What an absolute arsehole.


And with the current cohort of kiddies as well I think isn't it? Which means our English department have "wasted" shed loads of teaching time getting the kids to be able to jump through the hoops which were in place.


----------



## nagapie (Sep 25, 2013)

It's amazing that they can be allowed to change something mid GCSE. Mind boggles at how much unchecked power this man has.


----------



## stavros (Sep 25, 2013)

Apparently the waste of oxygen is on Question Time tomorrow. Douglas Alexander and Will Self are among the other panelists.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 25, 2013)

One of the teachers whose classroom i clean admitted she called gove a wanker when talking to her manager.
 Whose response was i'm shocked you used that language but I agree whole heartdly


----------



## stavros (Sep 25, 2013)

My Mum, an ex-teacher, normally doesn't profess strong opinion on politics and wouldn't hurt a fly, but has told me on more than one occasion that Gove has a very punchable face.


----------



## stavros (Sep 25, 2013)

likesfish said:


> One of the teachers whose classroom i clean admitted she called gove a wanker when talking to her manager.



How did the manager react?


----------



## nagapie (Sep 25, 2013)

The sad thing is that many heads and governors are enabling him. Now that schools can set their own pay policies, mine is in negotiation and the staff and governors have reached a stalemate I was not at the last meeting but apparently the governor present treated staff with total contempt. We will be meeting soon to vote on further action if they pass it regardless of our concerns.


----------



## fogbat (Sep 25, 2013)

Surely the only thing needed in the Gove file is a gift token for Ropes R Us, and a map of all the lamp posts in the UK?


----------



## Dan U (Sep 25, 2013)

He said some interesting stuff about childrens homes recently which is going to piss off a lot of private equity backed businesses, which was quote interesting to hear a Tory politician say, essentially admitting letting the market run free with residential care for children was a mistake. 

Literally the only thing of merit I can think of and a bit against the spirit of the thread I know.


----------



## nagapie (Sep 25, 2013)

Dan U said:


> He said some interesting stuff about childrens homes recently which is going to piss off a lot of private equity backed businesses, which was quote interesting to hear a Tory politician say, essentially admitting letting the market run free with residential care for children was a mistake.
> 
> Literally the only thing of merit I can think of and a bit against the spirit of the thread I know.



Don't worry, I'm sure he'll either retract it or it will surface that he had a hidden agenda in saying it.


----------



## RedDragon (Sep 26, 2013)

Did Will Self just invite him to step outside on question time.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2013)

self would crush him, he's way musclier


----------



## marty21 (Sep 27, 2013)

RedDragon said:


> Did Will Self just invite him to step outside on question time.


saw that - Self would have twatted him senseless -


----------



## existentialist (Sep 27, 2013)

Self would have torn him to pieces verbally.


----------



## Sprocket. (Sep 27, 2013)

Will could claim self defence. Puts coat on, shuffles to door.
It would have been better if Self had just felled him with a right cross.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 27, 2013)

He's a pacifist. The pompous twat. (Will Self that is).


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2013)

Someone should make a Celbrity Deathmatch style program only with MP's, writers and journos.

Eric Pickles vs Salman Rushdie


----------



## Sprocket. (Sep 27, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Someone should make a Celbrity Deathmatch style program only with MP's, writers and journos.
> 
> Eric Pickles vs Salman Rushdie



John Pilger vs John Selwyn Gummer, both 73.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 28, 2013)

Kind of relevant to the thread, the expansion of academies and, more broadly, the use of public funds for private entities:



> More cash needed for charter school money pit. The bottomless money pit of the charter schools experiment has been exposed, with government documents showing that the initial $19 million to set up five charter schools may not be enough. [...]
> 
> “How come it’s so easy for the government’s ideological experiment with charter schools to get extra cash when needed, but public schools have to scrape and scrabble around to find money to pay teacher aides from one term to the next?” said Mr Goulter.Ministry documents released yesterday reported that the funding was enough for four schools and additional cash would be required for a fifth school. NZEI Te Riu Roa national secretary Paul Goulter said it was a disgrace that even more funding would be coming from taxpayers to fund private individuals and organisations. [...]
> 
> “How come it’s so easy for the government’s ideological experiment with charter schools to get extra cash when needed, but public schools have to scrape and scrabble around to find money to pay teacher aides from one term to the next?” said Mr Goulter.



http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/ED1309/S00164/more-cash-needed-for-charter-school-money-pit.htm


----------



## brogdale (Oct 2, 2013)

> I have a simple message for the leaders of the teaching unions: _*Please, please, please don’t put your ideology before our children’s interests*_.’


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 2, 2013)

http://metro.co.uk/2013/10/02/musli...ection-for-health-and-safety-reasons-4131186/

has this been posted yet?​


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 2, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> http://metro.co.uk/2013/10/02/musli...ection-for-health-and-safety-reasons-4131186/
> 
> has this been posted yet?​



I suspect there's already some schools like that in the independent/private sector, which I suppose free schools are, even though they recieve public money.

And there's a pressure within certain parts of the Labour party to support that type of thing, all girls or all boys islamic free schools, lot of money behind it too. It's a weird mix of the acadamies and privatisation people, the stuff that Gove's continued enthusiastically, and the asian/muslim identity politics wing of Labour that support it. I've seen Labour party people use some ridiculously convoluted logic trying to justify proposals for all girls islamic school in Dewsbury a few years ago, one phrase used was "a safe space for muslim girls" which stuck in my mind, coz you could half-imagine Laurie Penny writing it and yet it's totally consistent with the attitude of very patriachal and controlling elements within the muslim community


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 2, 2013)

Delroy Booth said:


> I suspect there's already some schools like that in the independent/private sector, which I suppose free schools are, even though they recieve public money.
> 
> And there's a pressure within certain parts of the Labour party to support that type of thing, all girls or all boys islamic free schools, lot of money behind it too. It's a weird mix of the acadamies and privatisation people, the stuff that Gove's continued enthusiastically, and the asian/muslim identity politics wing of Labour that support it. I've seen Labour party people use some ridiculously convoluted logic trying to justify proposals for all girls islamic school in Dewsbury a few years ago, one phrase used was "a safe space for muslim girls" which stuck in my mind, coz you could half-imagine Laurie Penny writing it and yet it's totally consistent with the attitude of very patriachal and controlling elements within the muslim community



It probably won't just be muslims either.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 2, 2013)

frogwoman said:


> It probably won't just be muslims either.



No definitely not, that'll just depend on which area you live in I suppose.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Oct 2, 2013)

brogdale said:


> > I have a simple message for the leaders of the teaching unions: _*Please, please, please don’t put your ideology before our children’s interests*_.’


D'you reckon he thought that he might be being a touch ironic there? Putting ideology before children's interests? Hmmm, I wonder who might have been doing that in a position of power.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 2, 2013)

BlueSquareThing said:


> D'you reckon he thought that he might be being a touch ironic there? Putting ideology before children's interests? Hmmm, I wonder who might have been doing that in a position of power.



You're assuming too much self-awareness


----------



## stavros (Oct 2, 2013)

He's apparently standing up for the Daily Fail in their right to be cunts to dead folk, which of course has nothing to do with the fact that Mrs Gove writes for the same organ.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Oct 2, 2013)

http://webofwooders.com/forum/gove.htm

Has this light relief been posted before?


----------



## Gingerman (Oct 3, 2013)

Gove riveted by Shameron's speech.....


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 3, 2013)

is it mandatory to have a massive forehead in the tory party?


----------



## Humberto (Oct 3, 2013)

Its Churchillian to have a massive forehead and a small mouth. Smaller mouths denote upper class pedigree.


----------



## stavros (Oct 3, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> is it mandatory to have a massive forehead in the tory party?



Of course; they need the space for the extra brain power which us mere proles cannot even imagine.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 4, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> is it mandatory to have a massive forehead in the tory party?



It seems to mandatory to have some kind of chromosomal abnormality at any rate.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 4, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> It seems to mandatory to have some kind of chromosomal abnormality at any rate.



This might account for the forehead issue.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Oct 4, 2013)

eatmorecheese said:


> http://webofwooders.com/forum/gove.htm
> 
> Has this light relief been posted before?



Lots of lovely classist arse in that, managing to have a pop at Gove yet uphold his core values. Big golf clap.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 4, 2013)

S☼I said:


> Lots of lovely classist arse in that, managing to have a pop at Gove yet uphold his core values. Big golf clap.



...and deeply unfunny with it.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Oct 4, 2013)

S☼I said:


> Lots of lovely classist arse in that, managing to have a pop at Gove yet uphold his core values. Big golf clap.



On a second examination, you're absolutely right. Apols.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 9, 2013)

> A 27-year-old headteacher controversially appointed to take over a free school set up by a government minister despite having no formal teaching qualifications has left her job after only six months, the Guardian can disclose.
> 
> Annaliese Briggs was appointed principal to the new Pimlico Primary in central London in March despite criticisms that she had no teaching qualifications and little experience in running a school.
> 
> ...



the arrogance of the fuckers...


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Oct 9, 2013)

brogdale said:


> the arrogance of the fuckers...


Seems to have been off ill with stress/workload issues for a while from what I can gather.

I thought teachers had to "man up" according to Govey? From memory some of the soundbites she put out before she took the job on were fairly arrogant weren't they?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 9, 2013)

BlueSquareThing said:


> Seems to have been off ill with stress/workload issues for a while from what I can gather.
> 
> I thought teachers had to "man up" according to Govey? From memory some of the soundbites she put out before she took the job on were fairly arrogant weren't they?



Yep, all going rather well, aren't they, these 'free' schools?


----------



## Dan U (Oct 9, 2013)

I find it hard incredible she was given the job with no teaching quals etc. Utterly barmy.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 9, 2013)

Dan U said:


> I find it hard incredible she was given the job with no teaching quals etc. Utterly barmy.



Unless you're one of those utter twunts 'prepared to put their ideology before the interests of the kiddy winks'...

Here's Toby Cunt in fine form just 6 months ago:-



> Scarcely a day passes without some Left-wing dinosaur making a fool of themselves over education policy. Today it was the turn of Paul Dimoldenberg, a Labour councillor in Westminster. He has called for the Conservative-run council to launch an inquiry into the appointment of Annaliese Briggs as the headmistress of Pimlico Primary. His complaint is that she doesn't have a Post-Graduate Certificate in Education (PGCE), the qualification you get after spending a year at teacher training college.
> 
> "I can't believe how anybody could be so arrogant to believe that they can do that job when they've never taught in a school," he says. "I find it quite staggering."
> 
> ...



What a cunt.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 16, 2013)

The inevitable outcome of Gove's neo-liberal educational experiment on our kids; Guardian sees damning Ofsted report on Al-Madinah "free school". This one passage pretty much sums it all up...



> _*"This is a school which has been set up and run by representatives of the community with limited knowledge and experience. Leadership and management, including governance, are inadequate and have been unable to improve the school.*_"



Maddening.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 17, 2013)

Hunt's Commons attack, today, on Gove's 'ideological experiment' of "free schools" might carry more weight if he hadn't confirmed that 





> *we will keep the good free schools when we get into government*.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2013)

Amongst all the Clegg/Gove guff comes this additional instance of a "free" school debacle...



> .. a second _*unqualified headteacher*_ of a free school has quit her post following criticism. Last week the _Guardian_ revealed that Annaliese Briggs, a 27-year-old with no teaching qualifications who had been appointed as headteacher of Pimlico free school in London, had resigned after just three weeks in the job.
> 
> Now it has emerged that _*Lindsey Snowdon has stepped down from the Discovery new school in Crawley, West Sussex*_, after a stinging Ofsted report into her work at the 60-pupil primary free school, saying she "lacks the skills and knowledge to improve teaching".
> 
> ...





Gavin better watch out...


----------



## Barking_Mad (Oct 20, 2013)

Dan U said:


> I find it hard incredible she was given the job with no teaching quals etc. Utterly barmy.



A bit like getting the job of Chancellor when your only work experience is folding towels in Selfridges.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 20, 2013)

Barking_Mad said:


> A bit like getting the job of Chancellor when your only work experience is folding towels in Selfridges.



Even by tory standards, there's a profound degree of willful, ideological stupidity to champion the notion of school leadership undertaken by individuals with no relevant qualification. The irony that schools themselves are specifically expected to effect individuals with qualifications, and are indeed judged by government on that metric is, of course, lost in the mists of rothbardian zeal.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 20, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Even by tory standards, there's a profound degree of willful, ideological stupidity to champion the notion of school leadership undertaken by individuals with no relevant qualification.



I disagree.  I 'd say that this absolutely of a piece with a standard post-Thatcher neoliberal ideological take on education - that motivated individuals in a market can offer the same standard of education as a state school.  Bear in mind that skill in pedagogy doesn't enter into market calculations, just the rather simplistic notion that if you "know" a subject, you can teach it.



> The irony that schools themselves are specifically expected to effect individuals with qualifications, and are indeed judged by government on that metric is, of course, lost in the mists of rothbardian zeal.



Again, I suspect that market fundamentalism tells our zealots that they can attain the necessary standard of education through simple market participation, entirely missing any epistemelogical concerns.


----------



## rioted (Oct 20, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I disagree.  I 'd say that this absolutely of a piece with a standard post-Thatcher neoliberal ideological take on education - that motivated individuals in a market can offer the same standard of education as a state school.  Bear in mind that skill in pedagogy doesn't enter into market calculations, just the rather simplistic notion that if you "know" a subject, you can teach it.
> Again, I suspect that market fundamentalism tells our zealots that they can attain the necessary standard of education through simple market participation, entirely missing any epistemelogical concerns.


This supposes that the "standard of education as a state school" is something to be aspired to. IT IS NOT. And one of it's major problems is that it has policies formulated by people with no skills (or experience) of pedagogy - not just Gove, but all politicians.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 20, 2013)

rioted said:


> This supposes that the "standard of education as a state school" is something to be aspired to. IT IS NOT.



Please expand and quantify.



> And one of it's major problems is that it has policies formulated by people with no skills (or experience) of pedagogy - not just Gove, but all politicians.



Policy is mostly formulated outside of government, then presented to politicians for adoption.  That's fine if your education policy is being formulated by think-tanks staffed with former teachers, but not so good when they're staffed by PPE grads who view education entirely through the lens of their own narrow experience of it.


----------



## existentialist (Oct 20, 2013)

rioted said:


> This supposes that the "standard of education as a state school" is something to be aspired to. IT IS NOT. And one of it's major problems is that it has policies formulated by people with no skills (or experience) of pedagogy - not just Gove, but all politicians.


But the "standard of education as a state school" *should* be something to be aspired to.

And I agree completely with your comment regarding the fact that policy on education is formulated by people with no practical knowledge (apart, maybe, from some misty-eyed reminiscences of life at whatever public school they were sent to) of education.


----------



## likesfish (Oct 21, 2013)

i thoughtt he idea was to be better than the "bog standard comp" or why the fuck bother?
   An unqualified headmaster with suitable experience in another field say an army major, university lecturer,
A Successful business person could probably do the job.

But free schools werent being run by the experianced but unqualified they  were being run by the  enthusastic but inexperianced at anything useful, because teachers are overskilled  overpaid and what do they know about education
  Turns out quite a bit actually

  This is a less leathal version of the rail fuck up where they got rid of all those middle managers who did nothing to justify their inflated salarys only  to discover its a railway system you do need people who know what the fuck they are doing otherwise it falls over and people die


----------



## Favelado (Oct 30, 2013)

These select committees ask such impertinent questions.


----------



## Gingerman (Nov 5, 2013)




----------



## Combustible (Nov 6, 2013)

Gingerman said:


>



Well they do have similar views about the teaching of history (from 2:25).


----------



## toggle (Nov 6, 2013)

Dan U said:


> I find it hard incredible she was given the job with no teaching quals etc. Utterly barmy.



not if you look at the perspective of the tories. one of the fundamental things behind their changes is that there is nothing that teachers do or say that has actual value. note the dismissive attitudes when it has been pointed out how unworkable his curriculum changes will be. the belief is that teachers as a group speak are acting to protect their own interests.

putting in people without qualifications, to run and teach in schools is supposed to proove that the claims made by teachers that they are hard working qualified professionals and might actually know a bit about teaching and kids, are bollocks. this can then be used to further undermine any pay, security and conditions they demand.


----------



## Humberto (Nov 6, 2013)

Combustible said:


> Well they do have similar views about the teaching of history (from 2:25).




Now he's an amiable TV presenter who is watched by all sorts including former 'socialists' . A twat and a creepy arsewipe.


----------



## Bakunin (Nov 6, 2013)

I would say that Michael Gove is a cunt.

Unfortunately he lacks the softness, warmth and depth.


----------



## likesfish (Nov 6, 2013)

I think the torys Idea was all these highly experianced business "leaders" would leap at the chance of running a school.
 Unfortunatly said business leaders are already doing something and dont  fancy getting into teaching or running a school because its a ball of stress.
   So you got the enthusastic but unskilled and the crooks


----------



## spanglechick (Nov 6, 2013)

likesfish said:


> I think the torys Idea was all these highly experianced business "leaders" would leap at the chance of running a school.
> Unfortunatly said business leaders are already doing something and dont  fancy getting into teaching or running a school because its a ball of stress.
> So you got the enthusastic but unskilled and the crooks


And those doing it for small-p political reasons.  And party political reasons, come to that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2013)

spanglechick said:


> And those doing it for small-p political reasons.  And party political reasons, come to that.




also the religious wingnuts


----------



## likesfish (Nov 6, 2013)

the school I clean at is an academy but the bloke behind it.
 has made his pile of cash and is now into philanthropy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rod_Aldridge
  so an evil capitalist scumbag but not religious or fanatical ideologue.
   as the headmaster at the time of going for academy status you need a new school building that is how it happens.
 you can protest all you like but the government is only handing cash out for new academy's  or free schools


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Nov 6, 2013)

Favelado said:


> View attachment 42690
> 
> These select committees ask such impertinent questions.



Please tell me there is video footage of this.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Nov 6, 2013)

Found it.



Not quite as funny as I'd hoped, being that he took it in good humour.  Twat.


----------



## Nylock (Nov 7, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> also the religious wingnuts


And world-class arseholes like Toby Young....


----------



## eatmorecheese (Nov 12, 2013)

And now he weighs into the ethics of Social Work.

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...d-pledges-to-shakeup-social-care-8934169.html

“In too many cases, social work training involves idealistic students being told that the individuals with whom they will work have been disempowered by society. *They will be encouraged to see these individuals as victims of social injustice whose fate is overwhelmingly decreed by the economic forces and inherent inequalities which scar our society*.”
He said this approach fails to make people stand on their own two feet and risks “explaining away” substance abuse, domestic violence and personal irresponsibility."



Yes. Yes I do think that, Gove. Only someone with a calcified soul could ignore the evidence me and my colleagues bear witness to on a daily basis. Understanding these forces does not condone poor personal choices. He's creating an opening to start introducing his fucked up worldview into a sector already under immense pressure.

The word "cunt" doesn't really cover it.


----------



## toggle (Nov 12, 2013)

because obviously domestic violence is something that is a result of someone not standing on their own feet. it's clearly all the victim's fault.


----------



## purenarcotic (Nov 12, 2013)

He is such a fucking idiot.  What does he think we do all day ffs?  Sit in peoples houses going 'oh there there' while they batter their child in front of us?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 12, 2013)

its almost like they know they aren't getting in next time and are saying things to jockey for position after Cameron is ousted post-2015 loss.


----------



## purenarcotic (Nov 12, 2013)

toggle said:


> because obviously domestic violence is something that is a result of someone not standing on their own feet. it's clearly all the victim's fault.



And proper fuck him on that one.  Yeah, all those hours I've spent finding victims safe places to live, running self esteem workshops, sitting with women for over an hour while they work themselves up to making a phone call and telling them over and over they can do it because I won't be around forever, fighting to secure funding so they can feed their children, helping them write their CVs, prepping them for court so they can secure injunctions that mean they'll feel safe enough to leave their house and enter the 'world' again. 

All that work, all the countless other people doing similar things, we did all that because we don't want people to feel able to stand up, to be confident and feel like they can achieve and value and matter. Yeah, absolutely. 

Fuck him.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Nov 12, 2013)

eatmorecheese said:


> He's creating an opening to start introducing his fucked up worldview into a sector already under immense pressure.


He's certainly creating the opening to privatise the fuck out of the sector.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Nov 12, 2013)




----------



## spanglechick (Nov 12, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> its almost like they know they aren't getting in next time and are saying things to jockey for position after Cameron is ousted post-2015 loss.


as horrific as this government have been, the prospect of a Govve administration makes me feel instantly nauseous with anxiety. So much more dangerous a politician.


----------



## fogbat (Nov 12, 2013)

Given a terminal illness, I'm definitely taking the suicide bomb way out.


----------



## likesfish (Nov 12, 2013)

http://600transformer.blogspot.com/2013/10/solidarity.html


----------



## existentialist (Nov 12, 2013)

eatmorecheese said:


> And now he weighs into the ethics of Social Work.
> 
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...d-pledges-to-shakeup-social-care-8934169.html
> 
> ...


Grr.

I work in a not entirely unrelated profession, and I am well used to hearing these tired old platitudes being trotted out about the work I do, too. Any attempt to help someone understand how something in their background might be affecting their situation today is written off as "excusing", any attempt to work around the clearly unproductive ways in which people are attempting to cope with their lives seen as encouraging self-indulgence. It's a wonder the cunt didn't suggest that people should just "snap out of it", or "pull themselves together".

Truly, I never thought I would see the day where people in government would not only display their manifest ignorance on such a wide range of subjects they're so fucking clearly ignorant about, but would presume to dictate policy on the basis of that ignorance.

I am not saying that the caring professions are completely free from a tendency to identify with their clients sometimes, and I think that one of the advantages of my profession - counselling - is that the importance of maintaining clear boundaries between our attitudes and situations and those of our clients is hammered into us from the beginning of our training, which makes it a lot easier not to identify with them in that way. I think there are examples there that might serve other caring professions well - I have known social workers who I think have become either too closely identified with, or rather too judgemental off, their clients - but Gove's attack here is not a criticism of a few professionals who might need to nip and tuck a little in their professional way of being; it's a direct assault, ideologically motivated, on the idea that there is any solution to people's problems other than one in which they are simply coerced, financially or otherwise, into compliance.

Not much makes me physically nauseous, but reading this latest bit of pious vileness from Gove has achieved that.

In saying what he has said, he must know - as a former newspaper columnist himself - that he is doing little more than playing into the basest prejudices of the unthinking Daily Mail-reading hordes who so love to sit in judgement on anyone who, whether by accident of birth, or shortage of privilege, finds themselves "beneath" the self-considered lofty heights those cunts occupy.

*breaks things*

ETA: I am even more sickened by the fact that he has the gall to try and cite his own anecdotal experiences as some kind of justification for policy.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 12, 2013)




----------



## Bernie Gunther (Nov 12, 2013)

Gove's comments bring to mind this passage.



> Now, when all these bright summer and autumn days are going by and you have no employment, and consequently can save up nothing, and when the winter's blast sweeps down from the north and all the earth is wrapped in a shroud of ice, hearken not to the voice of the hyprocrite who will tell you that it was ordained of God that "the poor ye have always"; or to the arrogant robber who will say to you that you "drank up all your wages last summer when you had work, and that is the reason why you have nothing now, and the workhouse or the workyard is too good for you; that you ought to be shot." <snip>



To Tramps - Lucy Parsons


----------



## Nylock (Nov 12, 2013)

eatmorecheese said:


> And now he weighs into the ethics of Social Work.
> 
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...d-pledges-to-shakeup-social-care-8934169.html
> 
> ...


If you think about it, it makes a twisted sort of logic... He cannot sink any lower in the estimations of the teaching profession, so why not now start to alienate everyone else who falls under the inspection auspices of OFSTED?

The man should be shot out of a cannon aimed at the middle of the North Sea.


----------



## stavros (Nov 13, 2013)

I just discovered this little piece of art;


----------



## Dr Jon (Nov 13, 2013)

Nylock said:


> The man should be shot out of a cannon aimed at the middle of the North Sea rest of the cabinet.


Corrected for you.


----------



## Gingerman (Nov 15, 2013)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24959504
Michael Gove.....Simon Cowell.....one bullet


----------



## Dr Jon (Nov 15, 2013)

Gingerman said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-24959504
> Michael Gove.....Simon Cowell.....one bullet


it's a "who's the biggest twat?" contest


----------



## Balbi (Nov 15, 2013)

Gove should prefix every fucking statement from his mouth with, "This is an irresponsible and stupid thing to say..." - just so we know.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2013)

Isn't that largely taken as given though? Michael 'I have an ego so big I did a foreward to the bible' Gove


----------



## Balbi (Nov 15, 2013)

DotCommunist said:


> Isn't that largely taken as given though? Michael 'I have an ego so big I did a foreward to the bible' Gove



I think it'd make it clearer for everyone.


----------



## likesfish (Nov 16, 2013)

Dr Jon said:


> it's a "who's the biggest twat?" contest


Gove and after you've repeatedly bayoneted to make sure/for fun
 You know you want to 
 You can always go for a beer with simon he may be irritating but he has no real power


----------



## Garek (Dec 10, 2013)

If anyone needed, God forbid, further proof of his cuntishness then check out this ringing endorsement from that most charming of women, Princess Michael of Kent


----------



## J Ed (Dec 10, 2013)

.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Dec 10, 2013)

Garek said:


> If anyone needed, God forbid, further proof of his cuntishness then check out this ringing endorsement from that most charming of women, Princess Michael of Kent



Parasite needs a neck-shot.


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 10, 2013)




----------



## stavros (Dec 10, 2013)

Garek said:


> If anyone needed, God forbid, further proof of his cuntishness then check out this ringing endorsement from that most charming of women, Princess Michael of Kent



Hmm, that's disappointing; I quite like the Indie for its ambivalence towards the Windsor clan, so quite why they suppose we give a shit about her I'm not sure.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2013)

indy are crap, like a shrill version of the graun


----------



## frogwoman (Dec 10, 2013)

they're like a crap left wing version of the daily mail without the deliberate trolling of their own readers


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 10, 2013)

I bought the 'I' once cos its pennies and it was like reading a liberalish version of the Metro. True to form, two ECO DISASTER THAT ARE YOUR FAULT stories dominated


----------



## Gingerman (Jan 5, 2014)

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/04/michael-gove-blackadder_n_4541086.html
He really is an odious cunt....proving once again that the best part of him dribbled down his old man's leg


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 5, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/01/04/michael-gove-blackadder_n_4541086.html
> He really is an odious cunt....proving once again that the best part of him dribbled down his old man's leg



Well the German government were cunts in the first world war, doesn't mean it was anything other than a pointless waste of life for both sides and ironically it was the first world war that forced them to think of providing something resembling the welfare state in the first place.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jan 5, 2014)

Guess what Gove is talking about below ... 


> ... a misbegotten shambles – a series of catastrophic mistakes perpetrated by an out-of-touch elite.



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/05/tony-robinson-michael-gove-blackadder-first-world-war


----------



## brogdale (Jan 5, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Guess what Gove is talking about below ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



11/05/2010 -		 ?


----------



## ferrelhadley (Jan 5, 2014)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Guess what Gove is talking about below ...
> 
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/05/tony-robinson-michael-gove-blackadder-first-world-war


Owen Patterson always kinda reminds me of Sir Anthony Charles Hogmany Melchett


----------



## sim667 (Jan 6, 2014)

Ugh!

Because Gove has decreed that BTEC's are now too easy, they've re-written them into a format, that is pretty much impossible to teach and goes against the basic principles of education. i've just had a 90 minute presentation about them.

They've also said that people must be in education until they're 18, but are cutting funding for 18 year olds by 17.5%

The incompetence literally astounds me.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 6, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Ugh!
> 
> Because Gove has decreed that BTEC's are now too easy, they've re-written them into a format, that is pretty much impossible to teach and goes against the basic principles of education. i've just had a 90 minute presentation about them.
> 
> ...


They're talking about three day weeks for post 16 YOs in special schools and trying to justify it as being "the same hours a 16 YO in mainstream sixth form gets" but not allowing for the fact all the free periods etc would still be covered in the school setting. So parents of kids with special needs might suddenly find they can only be available for three days of work, if that.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 6, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> They're talking about three day weeks for post 16 YOs in special schools and trying to justify it as being "the same hours a 16 YO in mainstream sixth form gets" but not allowing for the fact all the free periods etc would still be covered in the school setting. So parents of kids with special needs might suddenly find they can only be available for three days of work, if that.


 
Well they're basing that on reasoning that there's much smaller groups in special schools, whilst not considering at all why the learner may need to attend a special school in the first place.

BTEC wise, they're now saying that learners will be examined at the end, you can't give them assignments covering multiple outcomes - so theoretically where as they had to undertake one task where they could reach distinction if it was good enough, they now have to undertake one task for a pass, one slightly more complicated task for a merit, and the same task in a more complicated way for  distinction, so for our fashion students, essentially they'd have to cut and sew a dress for a pass, cut and sew a pleated dress for a merit and then say a wrap dress for a distinction..... where as previously the could have just made a wrap dress and get a distinction. Essentially they're tripling the work load for every unit.

You have to give them 2 levels of feedback, firstly formative feedback where you can't tell them what grade boundary they're working toward, but you can tell them what they need to do to improve, and formative assessment were you can't tell them what they need to do to improve, but you can tell them a grade. You can only do the summative assessment once for a project, and after the formative assessment it can only be resubmitted once.

Oh yeah and you'll now be able to give students on level 2 a level 1 if they under achieve, which means colleges for cost saving will expect 40 students in a level 2 class, and then assume 50% will only achieve level 1...... This will be a cost saving exercise so they dont have to run seperate level 1 courses and pay a second teacher.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Jan 6, 2014)

With any luck Black Adder may come back to help save us this prince george government. Blackadder for Mayor!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 6, 2014)

19sixtysix said:


> With any luck Black Adder may come back to help save us this prince george government. Blackadder for Mayor!


He's already mayor!


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 6, 2014)

Every day these scumbags surprise me with just how they manage to plumb the pits of stupidity.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 6, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Every day these scumbags surprise me with just how they manage to plumb the pits of stupidity.



They're in a bit of a rush, you know?


----------



## existentialist (Jan 6, 2014)

brogdale said:


> They're in a bit of a rush, you know?


They shouldn't be: they're well ahead of the game.

Assuming you meant the plumbing of the pits of stupidity...


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 6, 2014)

brogdale said:


> They're in a bit of a rush, you know?


It's like an awful christmas for the intellect.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 7, 2014)




----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 7, 2014)

I see Tony Robinson stepped up to call Gove a cunt. (alas, not literally)


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2014)

'Sir' Tony Robinson. Isn't he supposed to be a socialist or summat? How can anyone except a bauble and claim to be even vaguely left wing?


----------



## ddraig (Jan 8, 2014)

wife of Gove giving tips on DWP site 


> Michael Gove's wife, journalist Sarah Vine, is involved with Get the Gloss, which sells £230 face cream among other products. Under a post telling jobseekers how to "dress for success", expert Judy Johnson from the "award winning beauty & health website" is quoted as saying: "Before I get stuck in on attire – my first tip would be make sure your eyes look perky so you don't look all sleepy - people will hire you more if you look awake! (a good night's sleep usually helps or a good under eye concealer). Don't worry – you don't have to spend a lot of money or search through fashion magazines to figure out what to wear to your interview – and the good news is – once you have that one interview outfit, you can re-cycle it for every other interview!" Facebook commenters criticised the apparent conflict of interest in Gove's wife's company being promoted on a government website, with one saying: "This company is owned by Michael Goves wife. How come MP's are permitted to advertise there spouses business via govt channels?" Gove's spokesman told the Mirror that the education secretary and his wife knew nothing about the link until contacted by the paper


http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/jan/08/government-facebook-gaffe-michael-gove-wife-sarah-vine


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> 'Sir' Tony Robinson. Isn't he supposed to be a socialist or summat? How can anyone except a bauble and claim to be even vaguely left wing?




the beeb article lent heavily on him being a paid up labourite and campaigner, in order to show balance of course and not at all to smear anyone questioning Gove as some sort of red terror


----------



## Nylock (Jan 8, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Well they're basing that on reasoning that there's much smaller groups in special schools, whilst not considering at all why the learner may need to attend a special school in the first place.
> 
> BTEC wise, they're now saying that learners will be examined at the end, you can't give them assignments covering multiple outcomes - so theoretically where as they had to undertake one task where they could reach distinction if it was good enough, they now have to undertake one task for a pass, one slightly more complicated task for a merit, and the same task in a more complicated way for  distinction, so for our fashion students, essentially they'd have to cut and sew a dress for a pass, cut and sew a pleated dress for a merit and then say a wrap dress for a distinction..... where as previously the could have just made a wrap dress and get a distinction. Essentially they're tripling the work load for every unit.
> 
> ...


Management here tried to impose new spec lvl 2 on us one week before the start of this academic year. We told them to get to fuck and we'd introduce it next year when we actually had some lead-in time to prep the course. Incompetent/lazy/stupid management seems to be endemic in this fucking country and getting worse as time goes by!


----------



## sim667 (Jan 8, 2014)

Nylock said:


> Management here tried to impose new spec lvl 2 on us one week before the start of this academic year. We told them to get to fuck and we'd introduce it next year when we actually had some lead-in time to prep the course. Incompetent/lazy/stupid management seems to be endemic in this fucking country and getting worse as time goes by!


 
Im with you 100% on that.

Or management once again proved the culture of lying by SMT earler.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2014)

It's all going so terribly badly; who could have seen this coming?



> *Flagship academy principal arrested over suspected fraud *
> 
> 
> 
> ...








.....and....and it gets even better....



> The role of Mr Alan Lewis was also raised by Mr Ward and Labour MP Kevin Brennan.
> 
> _*Mr Lewis, who is a vice chairman of the Conservative Party, has been the executive patron of the Kings Science Academy since it was founded.
> 
> ...



Gove you utter wanker.


----------



## Bakunin (Jan 9, 2014)

Try this for size:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/michael-gove-wife-sarahs-beauty-2999455

So, while IDS, Osborne and the rest of that odious shower mouth off about dubious benefit claimants, Mrs Gove's new internet business is being plugged by the DWP trying to sell overpriced tat most claimants can't afford, that will supposedly help them do better at job interviews.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 9, 2014)

The Al-Madinah Free School was financially corrupt too, alongside the enforcement of hijabs on female teachers, sex segregation and poor educational standards.

They are stealing from children.


----------



## Nylock (Jan 9, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Im with you 100% on that.






> Or management once again proved the culture of lying by SMT earler.


=/


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2014)

Standard fare, I'm afraid....



> *Revealed: taxpayer-funded academies paying millions to private firms*
> Calls for Department for Education scrutiny over firms linked to directors paid millions for consultancy and other services
> 
> *Taxpayer-funded academy chains have paid millions of pounds into the private businesses of directors, trustees and their relatives, documents obtained from freedom of information requests show.*
> ...


----------



## J Ed (Jan 13, 2014)

They really are the real looters.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jan 13, 2014)

Scum


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 13, 2014)

Is the phrase 'raping the future' too strong?

This man is singularly the most arrogant creature. There's no stopping this monster. What future is there when schools have to pay lawyers in case the corporations they are beholden to threaten to sue them because Mrs Jones said something 'scandalous' while teaching history.

Apologies for the use of the word rape.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 13, 2014)

According to an email from the NUT, Gove has asked the School Teachers' Review Body to consider:

Removing statutory limits on working time
Removing any existing protection against non-emergency cover for other staff, and non-teaching-related administration tasks
Changing the amount of time (currently 10% of teaching hours) which should be allocated as PPA time "free periods" for planning, prep and assessment).
Removing the right to a lunch break beyond 20mins

Gove is trying to kill us.  No other explanation.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 13, 2014)

Would that extend to striking teachers? Fuck.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 13, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Would that extend to striking teachers? Fuck.


How do you mean?


----------



## frogwoman (Jan 13, 2014)

Fuck


----------



## Greebo (Jan 13, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> According to an email from the NUT, Gove has asked the School Teachers' Review Body to consider:
> 
> Removing statutory limits on working time
> Removing any existing protection against non-emergency cover for other staff, and non-teaching-related administration tasks
> ...


Insane, those things are there for a reason - most teachers are already inclined to work harder and longer than is good for them.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 13, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Insane, those things are there for a reason - most teachers are already inclined to work harder and longer than is good for them.



Quite.

Any pretence that gove's assault on teachers' P&C is, in any way, driven by a concern for standards of teaching and pupil experience, is utterly undermined by such a vindictive, bullying approach to the profession. There are already far too many HT/SMTs ready to push teachers to the brink of physical/mental exhaustion; they do not need encouragment like this.

They're so in a rush to 'complete the project', aren't they? And, as ever, the real killer is the knowledge that Tristran Sounds-like will do absolutley stuff-all to reverse any of this dogmatic erosion of hard fought for conditions.

The enemy within.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 13, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> How do you mean?



Could a HT direct a teacher to cover a striking worker?


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 13, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Could a HT direct a teacher to cover a striking worker?


Ahh.  No idea


----------



## JTG (Jan 13, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Is the phrase 'raping the future' too strong?


It is, yeah. Don't use that word casually or out of context


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 13, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> According to an email from the NUT, Gove has asked the School Teachers' Review Body to consider:
> 
> Removing statutory limits on working time
> Removing any existing protection against non-emergency cover for other staff, and non-teaching-related administration tasks
> ...


Do teachers even really get a "lunch break" it seems they're always on duty.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 13, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> Do teachers even really get a "lunch break" it seems they're always on duty.


Well, they supposedly get one. Though my experience is that it is extremely unusual for a teacher to actually get such a break. Even if a teacher is in the staffroom for their lunchbreak, there's usually a queue at the door of kids needing to talk to them about something.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 13, 2014)

A lot of the new academies have been built without staff rooms and teachers are expected to eat in their classrooms, an obvious anti-labour tactic.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 13, 2014)

J Ed said:


> A lot of the new academies have been built without staff rooms and teachers are expected to eat in their classrooms, an obvious anti-labour tactic.


What happened to them eating in the hall with the kids?


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 13, 2014)

JTG said:


> It is, yeah. Don't use that word casually or out of context


 Fair comment; it's bad enough that it gets used casually in gaming.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 13, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> What happened to them eating in the hall with the kids?



What do you think?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> What happened to them eating in the hall with the kids?


Not much of a break


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 13, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> What happened to them eating in the hall with the kids?


That really wouldn't be a lunch break.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 13, 2014)

20 minute lunch break?

Next will we see Mrs Gove's Indigestion Remedies advertised through the DWP?


----------



## J Ed (Jan 13, 2014)

It makes me sick that fucking Tory MPs, the destroyers of society, are scapegoating people who actually do something useful. People who don't actually usually get a proper lunch break anyway let alone the luxurious hour long meals with booze subsidised by the taxpayer that MPs get.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 13, 2014)

J Ed said:


> It makes me sick that fucking Tory MPs, the destroyers of society, are scapegoating people who actually do something useful. People who don't actually usually get a proper lunch break anyway let alone the luxurious hour long meals with booze subsidised by the taxpayer that MPs get.


And teaching - constantly "on show" for several sessions totalling a few hours every day in front of an often critical audience of 20-30 - is a pretty full-on job, of the kind that most MPs wouldn't know the meaning of. Sure, they get to stand up and make speeches, but that's substantially different from what a teacher is doing every working day.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 13, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> That really wouldn't be a lunch break.


Well that's what I mean. I wasn't aware of teachers getting a "break" as such. I think the days of the staff fucking off to the pub on a Friday dinnertime are probably long gone.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> Well that's what I mean. I wasn't aware of teachers getting a "break" as such. I think the days of the staff fucking off to the pub on a Friday dinnertime are probably long gone.


Not quite. We finish at 2.00 on a Friday. Teachers are drunk by six.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 13, 2014)

J Ed said:


> It makes me sick that fucking Tory MPs, the destroyers of society, are scapegoating people who actually do something useful. People who don't actually usually get a proper lunch break anyway let alone the luxurious hour long meals with booze subsidised by the taxpayer that MPs get.


I have never understiood how we, as a society, have allowed what appears to be the mass scapegoating of teachers - fucking _teachers _- to occur. What do people think this achieves? Are we following the po.licies of people who didnt like matron at boarding school because she found their secret porno and fags stash and are now taking it out on the rest of us?

I've no experience of teaching beyond my time at school. My experiences there were good and bad like most people, but in recent years I have developed quite a fondness for the profession and I find it sickening when it's brought into discussion in the media for curtain twitchers and little englanders to run down. "oh they get 6 weeks holiday", "it's an easy job, try driving trucks for 60 hours a week" and so forth.

FOR FUCK'S SAKE!


----------



## existentialist (Jan 13, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> I have never understiood how we, as a society, have allowed what appears to be the mass scapegoating of teachers - fucking _teachers _- to occur. What do people think this achieves? Are we following the po.licies of people who didnt like matron at boarding school because she found their secret porno and fags stash and are now taking it out on the rest of us?


One of the commonest tropes about teachers - "they only work 25 hours a week, and get 12 weeks' holiday a year" - plays straight into the politics of envy playbook so beloved of this shower of coalition shit.

It really isn't at all hard, it seems, to whip people up into an envious rage at how easy other people have it: look at the main tactics used to attack benefits claimants, single mothers ("just having a baby to get a house, while WE have to slave 25 hours a day and eat hot gravel just to be able to afford...etc"), and so on.

I wouldn't be a teacher for quids. I often look at them doing their job and think "ooh, I'd quite like to have a bash at that, I reckon I could be quite good". And I would, and I could. For maybe, like, one lesson a week. As and when. With days off when I felt like it. But to do that job week in, week out, year in, year out...nah. The standing up in front of the punters, bloody hard as I know that can be, is the easy bit. Then you've got the preparation, admin, paperwork, working for a local authority education department in some headmaster's personal fiefdom (which can be great if the head's OK, but a complete nightmare if they're not...and they are often not), the responsibility (child protection stuff, risk assessments, discipline, parents' evenings....), a hostile inspection/assessment regime, *endless *fucking "initiatives" from Government, and the expectation that you're prepared to stay late/go off on trips as part of enrichment activities (or to help the head big up his school come the next inspection).

Sod that. And I haven't even mentioned the salary. I have nothing but respect for the people who do go for it.

(this jaundiced view was brought to you partly by Having-A-Teacher-For-A-Dad Enterprises, Inc™)


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2014)

Yeah, teachers can't just have a day when they're not feeling it. They have to be making their best efforts ALL of the time or young lives can be damaged.


----------



## toggle (Jan 13, 2014)

http://tompride.wordpress.com/2014/...f-michael-gove-is-really-a-tory-pr-executive/



> 21-year-old graduate of History and Politics Jago Pearson – who wrote in the Daily Telegraph in support of Michael Gove’s assertion about left-wing thinking in universities and schools – forgot to mention in the article that he’s an executive of a Tory PR company.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 13, 2014)

The cunt doesn't know his grammar either.
 


> *Jago Pearson* ‏@*jago_pearson*  2h
> I'm yet to hear from someone who denies history teaching at schools and universities is dominated by the left.



"I'm yet to hear"?


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 13, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> The cunt doesn't know his grammar either.
> 
> 
> "I'm yet to hear"?


What's wrong with that?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 13, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> What's wrong with that?



have or 've


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 13, 2014)

brogdale said:


> have or 've


Oh.  Yeah, fair enough - never noticed that was incorrect before.


----------



## catinthehat (Jan 14, 2014)

http://www.education.gov.uk/childrenandyoungpeople/youngpeople/militaryethos
Here is a cunning plan. 

On the lunch front - I have two choices - either go back to the staffroom and do admin, marking, planning, emails or stay with the students and do pastoral or revision or catch up for those who have missed classes.  I could take a break but that would mean taking more work home or not attending to the students needs - which will cause even more work in the long run.  If teachers did only what they were contracted to do the whole edifice would crumble in weeks.   Teachers will not do that because the vast majority of the care about what happens to their students and pupils.  Year on year cuts are soaked up by teachers working longer hours.  The trashing of teachers has been a vital element in the run up to selling state education off to the highest bidder.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 14, 2014)

'Dominated by left wing thinking'?

What does that even mean? Did they try and teach him t be socially mindful and coimpasionate? Fuck that lefty shit! How do i make lot's of money!


----------



## brogdale (Jan 14, 2014)

catinthehat said:


> http://www.education.gov.uk/childrenandyoungpeople/youngpeople/militaryethos
> Here is a cunning plan.
> 
> On the lunch front - I have two choices - either go back to the staffroom and do admin, marking, planning, emails or stay with the students and do pastoral or revision or catch up for those who have missed classes.  I could take a break but that would mean taking more work home or not attending to the students needs - which will cause even more work in the long run.  If teachers did only what they were contracted to do the whole edifice would crumble in weeks.   Teachers will not do that because the vast majority of the care about what happens to their students and pupils.  Year on year cuts are soaked up by teachers working longer hours.  _*The trashing of teachers has been a vital element in the run up to selling state education off to the highest bidder.*_



Yep, though they'll be no Orgreave, make no mistake...gove regards his stance as his 'breaking the NUM' crusade. Essential for him to emasculate one of the remaining bastions of unionisation before allowing the corporates in to do what they do.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 14, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> What's wrong with that?


What brogdale said.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 14, 2014)

What kind of parent names their kid "Jago"? Anyway, check out his timeline.
https://twitter.com/jago_pearson

He tells his followers, "The left knows how to troll". Translated: I've been rumbled and the only reply I can muster is to accuse my detractors of trolling.

Then he says



> *Jago Pearson* ‏@*jago_pearson*  1h
> Seems I’ve been ‘rumbled’ by the left. Or as others would say - ‘googled’. They’ve found out that when I left Uni, I got a job. Hilarious.



Yes, you got a job because of your social capital and are now working for a Tory PR company. Your degree means little, chum. You posed as an ordinary history graduate when you are, in fact, a PR exec.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 14, 2014)

And he writes like Adrian Mole.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 14, 2014)

One more thing, it turns out that Pearson is a member of the Taxdodgers Alliance.
https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/author/jago-pearson


----------



## teqniq (Jan 14, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> ... Your degree means little, scum. You posed as an ordinary history graduate when you are, in fact, a PR exec.



fixed for you


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> 'Dominated by left wing thinking'?
> 
> What does that even mean? Did they try and teach him t be socially mindful and coimpasionate? Fuck that lefty shit! How do i make lot's of money!



It simply means "we don't like the current historical narrative, and we're going to change it to something that reinforces *our* worldview and *our* politics".


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 14, 2014)

Here's a snippet from Pearson's article


> When it came to my dissertation, I managed to retreat to something more traditional, in the form of British defence policy and the Falklands conflict. Luckily, my supervisor was just about the only in the department without a Left-wing grudge to bear. To be expected I suppose, as an expert in intelligence and strategic defence.
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/educatio...-still-prevails-in-schools.html#disqus_thread



Fucking hilarious, just like his recent tweets.



> *Jago Pearson* ‏@*jago_pearson*  58m
> That last RT is pure comedy.



A bit like your article then.


----------



## J Ed (Jan 14, 2014)

Imagine being in a class in uni with that unbearable cunt or worse trying to teach him. He seems to be a disciple of the Niall 'too right-wing for footnotes and facts' Ferguson school of bitching about serious historians.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 14, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> 20 minute lunch break?


I had my lunch break at 4 today. It was probably less than ten minutes. Four and a half minutes to heat it up and then however long it took to eat it.
This is not unusual in a school. I get less time than teachers actually cos at least they have 'time' at lunchtime unless they are on duty. Though I doubt any of them take a whole half hour to rest/relax or whatever you are suppose to do in a break. There is always something or someone that needs attention.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 14, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> I had my lunch break at 4 today. It was probably less than ten minutes. Four and a half minutes to heat it up and then however long it took to eat it.
> This is not unusual in a school. I get less time than teachers actually cos at least they have 'time' at lunchtime unless they are on duty. Though I doubt any of them take a whole half hour to rest/relax or whatever you are suppose to do in a break. There is always something or someone that needs attention.


Quite often get to gone five without having eaten.   That few mins at the microwave is just impossible some days. And regularly have to spend hours desperate for a wee, too.   Just no time.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 14, 2014)

Aw man, it's so hard to even get a poo in peace at my work. I have to choose my time wisely. TMI, soz!


----------



## brogdale (Jan 14, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Quite often get to gone five without having eaten.   That few mins at the microwave is just impossible some days. And regularly have to spend hours desperate for a wee, too.   Just no time.



Remember that well....twinge in bladder just thinking about it.

Of course if you actually worked in the real world...........AAARRRRGGGGGGGGG


----------



## chilango (Jan 14, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Quite often get to gone five without having eaten.   That few mins at the microwave is just impossible some days. And regularly have to spend hours desperate for a wee, too.   Just no time.



Iirc teachers are prone to bladder problems or UTIs or something because they can't just go when they need to.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 14, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Quite often get to gone five without having eaten.   That few mins at the microwave is just impossible some days. And regularly have to spend hours desperate for a wee, too.   Just no time.


I take it school dinners are not an option. Have seen teachers at Js school have them. Although the portions were tiny and I'm not sure I fancy the look of them either. My Dad used to have 'em but that was in the days when they were vaguely okay.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 14, 2014)

catinthehat said:


> http://www.education.gov.uk/childrenandyoungpeople/youngpeople/militaryethos
> Here is a cunning plan.


 As they're reducing the amounts of people in the forces, and supposedly (failing at) increasing the reserves, this kind of talk is just basically saying "we aim to recruit direct from school into the army reserves"

5 years til compulsory spells in the army for all I reckon


----------



## sim667 (Jan 14, 2014)

chilango said:


> Iirc teachers are prone to bladder problems or UTIs or something because they can't just go when they need to.


 
I think teachers are just susceptible to illness generally, due to the amount of people they come into contact with, in such a small area.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 14, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> I take it school dinners are not an option. Have seen teachers at Js school have them. Although the portions were tiny and I'm not sure I fancy the look of them either. My Dad used to have 'em but that was in the days when they were vaguely okay.


School dinners at my school are actually perfectly acceptable. I have to wink at the dinner ladies to get them to give me enough though.
You have to ask for salt and pepper though as only adults are allowed them. 
Cheap too - just over 2 quid.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 14, 2014)

sim667 said:


> As they're reducing the amounts of people in the forces, and supposedly (failing at) increasing the reserves, this kind of talk is just basically saying "we aim to recruit direct from school into the army reserves"
> 
> 5 years til compulsory spells in the army for all I reckon


That wouldn't make sense because they'd have to pay em fulltime AND the army would hate it. Why sack someone who wants to be there fulltime and replace them with someone who doesn't want to be there and still needs paying. Doesn't make sense.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 14, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> School dinners at my school are actually perfectly acceptable. I have to wink at the dinner ladies to get them to give me enough though.
> You have to ask for salt and pepper though as only adults are allowed them.
> Cheap too - just over 2 quid.


They're about £2 in Leeds schools atm. Not sure what portion sizes are or whether you can get "seconds" like in the good old days.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 14, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> I take it school dinners are not an option. Have seen teachers at Js school have them. Although the portions were tiny and I'm not sure I fancy the look of them either. My Dad used to have 'em but that was in the days when they were vaguely okay.


That would take longer.


----------



## chilango (Jan 14, 2014)

Of course in the nice independent schools that the govt are used to teachers do get lunch.

Nice lunches, for free. Very nice lunches. Three courses.

There's often pastries/cake/biscuits in the staff room at break too.

One such school I visited not only provided it's teacher a well stocked bar in their dining room but a cheese board too. A fucking cheese board!


----------



## sim667 (Jan 14, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> That wouldn't make sense because they'd have to pay em fulltime AND the army would hate it. Why sack someone who wants to be there fulltime and replace them with someone who doesn't want to be there and still needs paying. Doesn't make sense.


 
Thats exactly  what they're doing though

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s--despite-cuts-in-troop-numbers-9053209.html


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 14, 2014)

chilango said:


> Of course in the nice independent schools that the govt are used to teachers do get lunch.
> 
> Nice lunches, for free. Very nice lunches. Three courses.
> 
> ...


My sis temped as a dinner lady in some posh school somewhere in Cheltenham and said the  food was VERY nice indeed.


----------



## chilango (Jan 14, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> My sis temped as a dinner lady in some posh school somewhere in Cheltenham and said the  food was VERY nice indeed.



Oh yes.

I've had a few lunches at posh schools recently. All excellent and free too.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 14, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Thats exactly  what they're doing though
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...s--despite-cuts-in-troop-numbers-9053209.html


Yes but it's not mandatory and won't be, why would it need to be, they will fill their vacancies whether regular or TA/reservists.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 14, 2014)

Dinners at my place aren't too bad (I am at an FE college rather than a school)

what is stupid though is a burger and chips is £1.50, and a salad (a tiny one) is £2..... all of this alongside posters promoting healthy eating etc....

We've got a student bakery run by our catering students though, they do a hot meal everyday for £2 and then massive cakes for 75p, so thats where I go


----------



## sim667 (Jan 14, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> Yes but it's not mandatory and won't be, why would it need to be, they will fill their vacancies whether regular or TA/reservists.


 
Because if they can pay them a shit salary and make it compulsory for a year, then it saves money....

Anyway, only what I reckon they're working toward, I hope im wrong.


----------



## _angel_ (Jan 14, 2014)

sim667 said:


> Because if they can pay them a shit salary and make it compulsory for a year, then it saves money....
> 
> Anyway, only what I reckon they're working toward, I hope im wrong.


I think that'd be way more expensive than funding willing part timers.

eta: never mind  political suicide


----------



## chilango (Jan 14, 2014)

I visited one school where "elevenses" are served to the teachers, and another where they get "high tea".

That's the world that Gove etc. come from.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 14, 2014)

I once did supply at a private school which had free toast in the staff room every morning.  Just a few toasters, some thick sliced bread, butter not an enormous expense.  Et voila: Happy teachers.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 14, 2014)

Are school staff allowed to refrain from encouraging students to join the armed forces, or do they have to be subtle about it? The army especially, seems to have quite a foothold in schools with army cadets often being one of the only after-school activities in some schools. Many kids will do anything to avoid going home (  ), so they are quite popular.


----------



## sim667 (Jan 14, 2014)

even free tea and coffee would do it.

They want to start charging staff for printing at my college


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 14, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> I once did supply at a private school which had free toast in the staff room every morning.  Just a few toasters, some thick sliced bread, butter not an enormous expense.  Et voila: Happy teachers.


We have free toast, marge and jam.


----------



## spanglechick (Jan 14, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> We have free toast, marge and jam.


I hate you.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 14, 2014)

chilango said:


> I visited one school where "elevenses" are served to the teachers, and another where they get "high tea".
> 
> That's the world that Gove etc. come from.



Oh yes, indeed. During my PGCE our tutor managed to get our group on a day-trip down to Winchester; bit of an eye-opener I can say.

Sherry with the head, lunch at 'high table' (served by flunkys) and surrounded by 'characters' that looked as though they'd just walked out of "All gas and gaiters". One old guy told me (seriously with a straight face) that school took pupils from a broad section of society adding "_we even take boys from the middle classes now"_.

Food was excellent.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 14, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> I hate you.


Come and work with me. I'll bump off the HoD. He's an awful bore.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 14, 2014)

sim667 said:


> As they're reducing the amounts of people in the forces, and supposedly (failing at) increasing the reserves, this kind of talk is just basically saying "we aim to recruit direct from school into the army reserves"
> 
> *5 years til compulsory spells in the army for all I reckon*



Never happen. Too expensive, and lowers the standard of readiness of the frontline services.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 14, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> That wouldn't make sense because they'd have to pay em fulltime AND the army would hate it. Why sack someone who wants to be there fulltime and replace them with someone who doesn't want to be there and still needs paying. Doesn't make sense.



From what my dad told me, National Service did *not* give conscripts the same basic wage as regulars/enlistees.  They'd basically pay them "dole and all found".


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 14, 2014)

catinthehat said:


> http://www.education.gov.uk/childrenandyoungpeopl
> 
> e/youngpeople/militaryethos
> Here is a cunning plan.


Just read this. It looks like satire. 
Jesusfuck. 
Troops To Teachers: place a shellshocked squaddy, who has been drilled into dehumanising the enemy, into a place where people often exhibit challenging behaviour. What could possibly go wrong?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Just read this. It looks like satire.
> Jesusfuck.
> Troops To Teachers: place a shellshocked squaddy, who has been drilled into dehumanising the enemy, into a place where people often exhibit challenging behaviour. What could possibly go wrong?


let's look back at e.g. the 1920s and 1940s, 1950s and see.

incidentally, it is anachronistic to call the phenomenon 'shell shock'. it's ptsd, as well you know. btw what sort of challenging behaviour do you exhibit which you think a "shellshocked veteran" could take umbrage at?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 14, 2014)

<feels something toothless gumming at his coat>


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> <feels something toothless gumming at his coat>


if you are going to try for a put-down at least make it one which has teeth.


----------



## catinthehat (Jan 14, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Are school staff allowed to refrain from encouraging students to join the armed forces, or do they have to be subtle about it? The army especially, seems to have quite a foothold in schools with army cadets often being one of the only after-school activities in some schools. Many kids will do anything to avoid going home (  ), so they are quite popular.


We once had the army in with this massive rocket launcher thing right next to where the staff and student nursery is.  I got furious and though I am going to have a word about that after my class - came out of my class to see the kids from the nursery being lined up and sat on the thing (like Cher in that video).  I went to the Principals office and filled it with expletives and a bit of emotive reasoning (it was something along the lines of those bastard things are blowing up kids that age in Iraq and you are allowing the thing to be used as a photo op for kids here - and some more swears in between).  We still get the recruiters but never had the military equipment again.  The recruiters target areas of economic deprivation - there are some colleges in Glasgow where they are almost permanent residents.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Are school staff allowed to refrain from encouraging students to join the armed forces, or do they have to be subtle about it? The army especially, seems to have quite a foothold in schools with army cadets often being one of the only after-school activities in some schools. Many kids will do anything to avoid going home (  ), so they are quite popular.


you do know what refrain means, right? of course you can refrain from encouraging students to do anything. there is no need for you to be subtle about refraining from encouraging them to enter the profession of arms - though, as you're refraining from it they may not notice what you're up to.


----------



## JTG (Jan 14, 2014)

catinthehat said:


> The recruiters target areas of economic deprivation - there are some colleges in Glasgow where they are almost permanent residents.


Saw them at St Pauls Carnival last year. Made me cross. And sad.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 14, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> you do know what refrain means, right? of course you can refrain from encouraging students to do anything. there is no need for you to be subtle about refraining from encouraging them to enter the profession of arms - though, as you're refraining from it they may not notice what you're up to.


Sodden it is


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Sodden it is


grand


----------



## existentialist (Jan 14, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Are school staff allowed to refrain from encouraging students to join the armed forces, or do they have to be subtle about it? The army especially, seems to have quite a foothold in schools with army cadets often being one of the only after-school activities in some schools. Many kids will do anything to avoid going home (  ), so they are quite popular.


Quite a lot of the schools in this county have visits from Forces recruiting teams. But then, the job situation in this little corner of heaven is such that the phrase "economic conscription" could have been coined for here, so you can hardly blame them for bowing to the inevitable.


----------



## rioted (Jan 14, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> let's look back at e.g. the 1920s and 1940s, 1950s and see.
> 
> incidentally, it is anachronistic to call the phenomenon 'shell shock'. it's ptsd, as well you know. btw what sort of challenging behaviour do you exhibit which you think a "shellshocked veteran" could take umbrage at?


In the 50s and 60s I was beaten many times by ex-forces "teachers". It wasn't unusual for the PE staff to get a lad in the boxing ring with them. Never get away with it nowadays.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 14, 2014)

Is Gove still going on about how he wants hardened Helmand veterans in the classroom?


----------



## existentialist (Jan 14, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> Is Gove still going on about how he wants hardened Helmand veterans in the classroom?


I don't know the date of the link that was posted, but it's two way traffic - soldiers into classrooms, and kids into military cadets.

In moderation, I don't think the idea is totally out of order. When it's being proposed by a nutjob stary-eyed loon to the right of Genghis Khan, it scares the shit out of me.

I've worked with ex-soldiers, and quite a few of them were great characters, very interesting, and very good at communicating things, in a "this is the naughty end. We do not point this end at people we like, do we, boys?" kind of way.

But would I want them responsible for the emotional and pastoral well-being of my kids?

Hmm, not really.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 14, 2014)

existentialist said:


> I don't know the date of the link that was posted, but it's two way traffic - soldiers into classrooms, and kids into military cadets.
> 
> In moderation, I don't think the idea is totally out of order. When it's being proposed by a nutjob stary-eyed loon to the right of Genghis Khan, it scares the shit out of me.
> 
> ...


There is an assumption that because soldiers have been through military training and are used to order, they are better placed that someone from a suburb to be a teacher. I think it's a dangerous and foolhardy assumption to make. There are decent ex-squaddies out there but it's interesting how Gove and his braindead ministers wouldn't dare suggest the same thing be tried in independent schools.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 14, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> There is an assumption that because soldiers have been through military training and are used to order, they are better placed that someone from a suburb to be a teacher. I think it's a dangerous and foolhardy assumption to make. There are decent ex-squaddies out there but it's interesting how Gove and his braindead ministers wouldn't dare suggest the same thing be tried in independent schools.


I think the main cause of it is this warm-fields-of-the-past fetishisation of a certain kind of discipline. The "reasoning" goes - kids need discipline, teachers struggle to enforce it, therefore we need much tougher people to do it, let's make soldiers into teachers.

I'd actually argue that, while discipline is an important part of young people's learning, we're often barking up the wrong tree completely when we assume that the only kind of discipline is the authoritarian barking-orders variety. What children really need to learn is not just *to* respect others, but *how* to do so. Too often, we seem to only want to go for the easy answers - we tell them to "work harder", "obey", "show respect", and in the face of their ignorance as to how to actually achieve this things (because we sure as hell aren't demonstrating them to them), we just shout louder and more insistently. There would be a delicious irony at the idea of a teacher publicly and loudly humiliating a student in a public corridor for failing to show respect, if it wasn't for the fact that the irony will be utterly lost on the teacher doing the shouting.

And all that will happen if we pack schools with soldiers is that the shouting will be louder.


----------



## chilango (Jan 15, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> ... it's interesting how Gove and his braindead ministers wouldn't dare suggest the same thing be tried in independent schools.



Indeed.

Although independent schools, especially of the variety remembered fondly by Gove et al, are already packed full of ex-military teachers.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 15, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> Here's a snippet from Pearson's article
> 
> 
> Fucking hilarious, just like his recent tweets.
> ...


This joker wasn't even born until after the Falklands war. I'm old enough at elast to remember the Sun's grotesque GOTCHA! headline in response to the Belgrano sinking.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 15, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> I had my lunch break at 4 today. It was probably less than ten minutes. Four and a half minutes to heat it up and then however long it took to eat it.
> This is not unusual in a school. I get less time than teachers actually cos at least they have 'time' at lunchtime unless they are on duty. Though I doubt any of them take a whole half hour to rest/relax or whatever you are suppose to do in a break. There is always something or someone that needs attention.


I couldn't function like that. At all. God knows how you do!


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 15, 2014)

chilango said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Although independent schools, especially of the variety remembered fondly by Gove et al, are already packed full of ex-military teachers.


That probably explains the regime of bullying (an unofficial form of control) in those schools.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 15, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> This joker wasn't even born until after the Falklands war. I'm old enough at elast to remember the Sun's grotesque GOTCHA! headline in response to the Belgrano sinking.


This is the problem with today's young Tories (I include the current government here): they wished they were around in the 80s when Thatcher was fucking us over. They're living vicariously on fragments of memory. For them, it's a golden period that's only outdone by the 19th century when everyone knew their place.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jan 15, 2014)

Ironic then that his 'left wing' education has put him into the position he currently enjoys. Lulz


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 15, 2014)

Wilshaw needs a kicking too, laying into teachers for playing the victim and telling them now is the best ever time to be a teacher. 
http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/education-25749480


----------



## brogdale (Jan 15, 2014)

Good spot of probable govey shenanigans from Paul @ TCF....



> The (other) more cynical explanation is that Ofsted realises the political importance of getting as many schools as possible shifted from RI to good in the four terms which separate us from the general election, so that come March 2015 Gove is in a position to wave figures around to ‘prove’ that his school revolution worked.


----------



## chilango (Jan 15, 2014)

> The aim of this Government is for every child to be above average



Sir Rhodes Boyson (years ago).

They still don't get basic mathematical concepts do they?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 15, 2014)

chilango said:


> Sir Rhodes Boyson (years ago).
> 
> They still don't get basic mathematical concepts do they?


 
Apologies for coming over all Pickmans, but wasn't that Eric Forth?


----------



## chilango (Jan 15, 2014)

brogdale said:


> Apologies for coming over all Pickmans, but wasn't that Eric Forth?



You might be right. I was told Boyson, but I bet it's been said more than once...


----------



## likesfish (Jan 16, 2014)

The actual troops to teachers plan is a bit more subtle than what people are being told either. If you have a technical degree a funded pgcse or a funded 4 year degree course.
 No deranged para with a knife between teeth suddenly takeing over form 5b  No matter how many teachers wish for it after a particuly stressful day
   Cadets much like boxing clubs actually do a lot of good not for every kid obviously its cheaper than most other youth groups as subsidised which really cant be justified on recruiting terms.
  The guns and combats attract kids and they actually learn some useful stuff while still thinking they are the next generation of the SA.


----------



## existentialist (Jan 16, 2014)

I don't have a problem with the notion of troops to teachers as such: some of the training skills the military has are second to none. My concern is at the way it is seen as some kind of game changing universal panacea, which is the way politicians see it. It's as if the solution to every problem is "send in the Army", and you know better than I do that, even in (para)military type situations, it's never quite as simple as that!


----------



## J Ed (Jan 16, 2014)

Send in the drones, that'll sort out all those thuggish yoof and wussy ivory tower lefty academic teachers


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 16, 2014)

likesfish said:


> The actual troops to teachers plan is a bit more subtle than what people are being told either. If you have a technical degree a funded pgcse or a funded 4 year degree course.
> No deranged para with a knife between teeth suddenly takeing over form 5b



TBF, that's only because most Paras are semi-literate at best, including the officers.  They're only good for being PE teachers.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 16, 2014)

J Ed said:


> Send in the drones, that'll sort out all those thuggish yoof and wussy ivory tower lefty academic teachers



The drones, eh?

So you're talking about sending Gove and his wonks to sort them out, right?


----------



## likesfish (Jan 16, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, that's only because most Paras are semi-literate at best, including the officers.  They're only good for being PE teachers.



Tbf most other officers dont consider dealing with an arguement with their fists acceptable behaviour A formal duel yes.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 16, 2014)

likesfish said:


> Tbf most other officers dont consider dealing with an arguement with their fists acceptable behaviour A formal duel yes.



Nah, that's the Guards regts, where almost every officer has no chin and a double or triple-barrelled surname.


----------



## likesfish (Jan 16, 2014)

We had a Lt and his oppasite number in a cav sqd attempt to fight a duel one of the pair of fools had got hold of a set of dueling pistols
  Many many extras were handed out that day


----------



## nino_savatte (Jan 16, 2014)

Pearson thought he'd have another crack, but he's ended up looking like a complete berk.


> The tactics of the Left are so predictable, especially where certain subjects are concerned. You give them a prod; shake them around a little and they stir into life. How _dare_ we criticise their cosy stranglehold on education?
> 
> Of course, the fact nobody can dispute my claim that the Left hold a broad monopoly of school and university history teaching speaks volumes.
> 
> ...



Priceless.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jan 16, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Nah, that's the Guards regts, where almost every officer has no chin and a double or triple-barrelled surname.



My Dad was a mess corporal in the Guards and has a really funny story about a certain Lord Knob-End glassing his mate Viscount The Honourable Twatfeatures with a pink gin, in an argument over a catamite.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 16, 2014)

likesfish said:


> We had a Lt and his oppasite number in a cav sqd attempt to fight a duel one of the pair of fools had got hold of a set of dueling pistols
> Many many extras were handed out that day



Horse-buggering wankers! Real officers fight with their dress swords.


----------



## The Pale King (Jan 16, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> Pearson thought he'd have another crack, but he's ended up looking like a complete berk.
> 
> 
> Priceless.



This lad will go far at the Telegraph. He's so eager to please! I mean, his argument and reasoning wouldn't get him a pass at GSCE I wouldn't think, but he is falling over himself to tell them what they want to hear.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 16, 2014)

Adrian Mole: The Central Office Years


----------



## J Ed (Jan 16, 2014)

The Pale King said:


> This lad will go far at the Telegraph. He's so eager to please! I mean, his argument and reasoning wouldn't get him a pass at GSCE I wouldn't think, but he is falling over himself to tell them what they want to hear.



A willingness to tell untruths for power overrides ignorance, incompetence and mediocrity in so many cases, see Niall Ferguson


----------



## J Ed (Jan 16, 2014)

brogdale said:


> Good spot of probable govey shenanigans from Paul @ TCF....



Not really that surprising, the DfE has been manipulating stats for results in Free Schools in a very similar way to the way in which New Labour juked the stats more globally. I would imagine that we'll see a move towards the latter as we move closer to 2015.

It's interesting that Ofsted has been harassing the less compliant educational authority in Nottingham which isn't great but is certainly much better overall than nearby massively under performing but ultra compliant Peterborough. Fuck the kids, it's all about whether you follow the latest diktat or not.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 26, 2014)

Cage, rattled?



> Education Secretary Michael Gove has said his team has not briefed against England's chief inspector of schools and anyone who did would be *"instantly dismissed"*.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25906736


----------



## existentialist (Jan 26, 2014)

brogdale said:


> Cage, rattled?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-25906736


It is gratifying to see quite how comprehensively this lot seem to be able to piss of the experts in fields in which they can only ever be dilettantes. To have the head of the main inspection regime clearly pissed off at your blunderings is pretty impressive - at least on a par with the leathering Osborne took from that senior economist at Davos, and the fairly regular hidings the various branches of the medical profession have dished out to Jeremy Soundslike.

Not to mention the reaction from large parts of the academic historian establishment to Gove's clumsy attempts at turning the 100th anniversary of the start of WWI into some kind of jingoistic flagwaving themepark.

The tragedy is that all of these government ministers seem so short on insight, and so shameless, that they just carry on, oblivious to the chaos and misery that they're causing to those less able to vocally express their outrage.


----------



## likesfish (Jan 27, 2014)

Maybe gove did the 2014  thing knowing full well they arnt going to be in power by 2018 which at least would make sense although niether 2018 or 2045 are good dates for the conservatives


----------



## brogdale (Jan 30, 2014)

> Teachers at one of Education Secretary Michael Gove’s flagship free schools are staging a series of walkouts from Thursday over what they see as _*an attempt to introduce “zero-hour” contracts at their school.*_ The action, to be taken at the STEM Academy Tech City in Islington, north London - is the first strike action of its kind at any of the country’s 174 free schools.
> 
> Teachers at the school asked to be balloted by their union, the National Union of Teachers, after *their employers said there would be “legal consequences” if they failed to sign a new contract before Christmas.*
> 
> ...



FFS....again.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 30, 2014)

I heard something on the radio this morning about him wanting schools to have longer hours and shorter holidays.
FUCK OFF GOVE!
What a complete and utter rhombus


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 30, 2014)

brogdale said:


> FFS....again.




reserves the right is legalese for 'I'm chancing my arm'


----------



## brogdale (Feb 1, 2014)

Guardian running another Gove story...this time involving some faux whinging from the thief Laws about Gove's move to politicise Ofsted. Usual shite from all concerned, and I honestly couldn't be bothered to read to the bottom of the piece....but it did include this pic of Gove..


----------



## toggle (Feb 1, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/30/britain-first-world-war-biggest-error-niall-ferguson


now lets see gove squirm when he realises that the right wing empire apologist academics also think he's a fucking idiot.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Feb 2, 2014)

Gove is starting to remind me of the Jesse character from the Fast Show; each week he pops up with some new edict. "This week I will be mostly...telling eachers to use traditional methods of discipline such as lines".


----------



## Awesome Wells (Feb 2, 2014)

brogdale said:


> FFS....again.


Eextraordinary; here is the most hated education secretary I can remember, constantly tinkering and proclaiming. the most arrogant man there has ever been in cabinet. Yet the right wing will constantly frame this as a failing of the left or, more specifically, of teachers (who of course are all bleeding heart liberals who get weeks and weeks of free holidays). How on earth has this been allowed to happen? How has this slippery toad gotten away with shattering the education system and the confidence of those within while successfully scapegoating the people he's toying with?


----------



## stavros (Feb 2, 2014)

Did he do anything particularly arse-ish on Andrew Marr this morning? 


(Innuendo intentional.)


----------



## Nylock (Feb 2, 2014)

Name an event where gove hasn't made a total cunt of himself


----------



## stavros (Feb 2, 2014)

That's a given, but I want to know if he did anything that'll go into his greatest hits package.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 2, 2014)

stavros said:


> That's a given, but I want to know if he did anything that'll go into his greatest hits package.



First 10 seconds.*

That what you're after? He really has redefined the notion of the eminently slappable face, hasn't he?

* I really couldn't take any more than that.


----------



## JTG (Feb 2, 2014)

Nylock said:


> Name an event where gove hasn't made a total cunt of himself


----------



## Nylock (Feb 2, 2014)

Nope, sorry, still an epic cunt...


----------



## JTG (Feb 2, 2014)

fair enough really


----------



## J Ed (Feb 3, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/03/michael-gove-berlin-wall-state-private-schools



> The education secretary, Michael Gove, is vowing to break down the "Berlin Wall" between state and private schools, opening up the opportunities available in the independent sector to more pupils than ever before.



Is he intending to extend funding to £30,000 a pupil in the state sector then?


----------



## Manter (Feb 3, 2014)

He's giving more and more signs of being a man on the verge of the nervous breakdown. He just pops up, says really surreal stuff and buggers off again. Wtf about calling educationalists 'the blob' that's a) strange and unprofessional behaviour and b) not something any sane person would admit to. 

And wtf common entrance?! What is he smoking?


----------



## J Ed (Feb 3, 2014)

Doesn't common entrance have MFL in it? How is he intending to force that on state schools when MFL isn't even compulsory in primary until next year? Even when it does become compulsory next to fuck all seems to have been done to ensure anything approaching adequate provision.

Fuck your Berlin Wall, build it even higher and then nuke the side with the private schools


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Feb 3, 2014)

He just smacks of self-validation brought on by yes men and stuffy Tory twats who haven't set foot in a school since the 1970s.

Getting kids to weed sports fields? Really? Really? REALLY? Even an entry level civil servant at the DfE might stop to think "There might be Heath and Safety implications here" or "What will the companies to whom we have awarded the contracts to weed our sports fields think of this?'

Oh, and I expect one of things a lot of parents treasure about state schools is that they're fuck all like private schools.


----------



## J Ed (Feb 3, 2014)

A lot of schools no longer have sports fields since they've been sold off. What are the kids going to do? Pick litter around the Tesco where the sports field used to be?


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 3, 2014)

He's making stuff up. He's making out state schools don't have after school clubs, which is bollocks.


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Feb 3, 2014)

Brian Moore and Michael Rosen both critical of Gove on Twitter this morning for turning writing (lines) and exercise (laps of the pitch) into punishments.

Laps of the pitch?  Yes. LAPS OF THE FUCKING PITCH.


----------



## likesfish (Feb 3, 2014)

He's lost it usually its home Secetarys who  go mad first all that attempting to be tough on crime  rots the mind.
  But gove is just coming up with random shit now.
Should be something about combined cadet forces next week I'm afraid its a terminal case


----------



## Manter (Feb 3, 2014)

It is a bit bizarre. It smacks of a man who has no understanding of education at all passing on ideas he heard at a dinner party as if they are policy


----------



## chilango (Feb 3, 2014)

Manter said:


> It is a bit bizarre. It smacks of a man who has no understanding of education at all passing on ideas he heard at a dinner party as if they are policy



...mixed with his own memories of school of course.


----------



## chilango (Feb 3, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> He's making stuff up. He's making out state schools don't have after school clubs, which is bollocks.



To facilitate state schools extending their days to those of the independent sector is he also proposing extending school holidays to the length the independent sector have?


----------



## brogdale (Feb 3, 2014)

On 'Today' they've just played a clip of his 'World at One' interview with Martha Kearney during which he let slip the phrase..._*"The thing about the legacy is...."...*_then checked himself, and mumbled some 'apology' about "*self-aggrandisement" 
*
The tory leadership stakes...and they're off...


----------



## FiFi (Feb 3, 2014)

chilango said:


> To facilitate state schools extending their days to those of the independent sector is he also proposing extending school holidays to the length the independent sector have?


Or housing school staff and their families in on-site homes so they can, occasionally, see their own children!


----------



## existentialist (Feb 3, 2014)

chilango said:


> ...mixed with his own memories of school of course.


Hmm. A lot of his "warm fields of the past" guff comes across more as fantasy than memory, but perhaps his general loathsomeness just makes me cynical.


----------



## chilango (Feb 3, 2014)

existentialist said:


> Hmm. A lot of his "warm fields of the past" guff comes across more as fantasy than memory, but perhaps his general loathsomeness just makes me cynical.



Memory tends to do that.


----------



## chilango (Feb 3, 2014)

FiFi said:


> Or housing school staff and their families in on-site homes so they can, occasionally, see their own children!



Don't give him ideas!


----------



## eatmorecheese (Feb 3, 2014)

brogdale said:


> On 'Today' they've just played a clip of his 'World at One' interview with Martha Kearney during which he let slip the phrase..._*"The thing about the legacy is...."...*_then checked himself, and mumbled some 'apology' about "*self-aggrandisement"
> *
> The tory leadership stakes...and they're off...



This.

He's surrounded himself with a coterie of swivel-eyed special advisers (would love to be a fly-on-the-wall in one of their "blue sky thinking" sessions) and is now attempting to position himself politically with an eye to the future, in the manner of a South American populist, without the charm.


----------



## FiFi (Feb 3, 2014)

chilango said:


> Don't give him ideas!


I know, I'm  Sorry. 
But when you start trying to compare private schools with state schools you have to remember they are VERY different creations. it's not just a case of extending the school day, it's a completely different structure to the timetable and staffing.


----------



## chilango (Feb 3, 2014)

FiFi said:


> I know, I'm  Sorry.
> But when you start trying to compare private schools with state schools you have to remember they are VERY different creations. it's not just a case of extending the school day, it's a completely different structure to the timetable and staffing.



I know.

That was my point.


----------



## likesfish (Feb 3, 2014)

One of the teachers Whose classroom i clean reckons he was abused at school so is trying to get his own back on teachers


----------



## chilango (Feb 3, 2014)

likesfish said:


> One of the teachers Whose classroom i clean reckons he was abused at school so is trying to get his own back on teachers



He is clearly aiming for his very own miners' strike legacy...smashing the NUT. That's pretty much his sole aim. He, like others of his ilk, don't actually give a fuck what goes on in state schools. Why would they? Nope, his entire period in office has been about baiting the NUT and a systematic undermining of teachers in general.


----------



## existentialist (Feb 3, 2014)

chilango said:


> He is clearly aiming for his very own miners' strike legacy...smashing the NUT. That's pretty much his sole aim. He, like others of his ilk, don't actually give a fuck what goes on in state schools. Why would they? Nope, his entire period in office has been about baiting the NUT and a systematic undermining of teachers in general.


I always have the feeling that pretty much all that the teaching unions would need to do to completely cripple the system would be to work to rule. So far as I understand it, the reason that they generally resort to the more traditional strike action is because a few days' strikes would be far less deleterious to the education of the kids than a longer campaign of work to rule.

If I'm right, then Gove would be making quite a big mistake in attempting to have an NUM-style showdown with teachers. The mining industry wasn't really built on goodwill on the part of the staff in the way that education is, and if push came to shove, teacher's wouldn't be doing a miners' strike, with flying pickets and all the rest of it: they'd just say "OK, well, if we haven't got any other option, we'll just do what we're paid to do". It would be hard to make the kind of public campaign against that action that Thatcher orchestrated against the miners - how on earth does a Government minister stamp out a refusal to mark work at home, or the closure of a school because teachers choose to withdraw from supervising playgrounds during their breaks? Sending in mounted policemen? Bussing supply teachers in under a hail of bricks?

Obviously, part of his onslaught on the terms and conditions of teachers' employment is to do with relaxing the rules that they'd work to, but it seems to me that, even if they met him on that half way, the whole education system would grind to a complete halt, given the amount of commitment and flexibility most teachers bring to the job. I am sure that most would not want to inflict that on their pupils, but there would come a point where they would be left with little option. I hope that, before that time comes, they've got a good PR operation going and can get parents and the general population onside.

And I would really hope that it was a battle that Gove lost in spades. Because enough damage has been done to education through political interference since Thatcher's day as it is, and very much more risks turning our schools - and the education of our children - into even more of a disaster that would, I suspect, make us the laughing stock of much of the world.


----------



## Balbi (Feb 3, 2014)

We did that in 2012, work to rule.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20696660



> The Education Secretary Michael Gove has advised schools that teachers who work to rule may be in breach of contract and could have pay deducted.



 He obviously didn't get 'work to rule'.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Feb 3, 2014)

brogdale said:


> The tory leadership stakes...and they're off...



Gove's been off on those for the last three years at least.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Feb 3, 2014)

existentialist said:


> I always have the feeling that pretty much all that the teaching unions would need to do to completely cripple the system would be to work to rule. So far as I understand it, the reason that they generally resort to the more traditional strike action is because a few days' strikes would be far less deleterious to the education of the kids than a longer campaign of work to rule.
> 
> ...
> 
> Because enough damage has been done to education through political interference since Thatcher's day as it is, and very much more risks turning our schools - and the education of our children - into even more of a disaster that would, I suspect, make us the laughing stock of much of the world.



To be honest though we can't even organise a fucking work to rule. People know about it but are forever doing the things we're not supposed to do - tbh there are good reasons for that for many people and it's certainly easier to just get on with it.

Honestly, I don't think anyone could ever organise a proper work to rule in education for any length of time any more.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 3, 2014)

Balbi said:


> We did that in 2012, work to rule.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20696660
> 
> ...



He's such a dickhead, a ten hour school day? Has he met any kids recently?


----------



## FiFi (Feb 3, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> He's such a dickhead, a ten hour school day? Has he met any kids recently?


His every pronouncement marks me think he's never met ANYone human, let alone a child or young person!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Feb 3, 2014)

FiFi said:


> His every pronouncement marks me think he's never met ANYone human, let alone a child or young person!



He doesn't come across as at all "human" himself, and having read some of his wife's "journalism", he may not even be married to a human.


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 3, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> He doesn't come across as at all "human" himself, and having read some of his wife's "journalism", he may not even be married to a human.



Maybe there was something in the story about the greys and the annunaki after all


----------



## co-op (Feb 3, 2014)

brogdale said:


> The tory leadership stakes...and they're off...



I think you're right and he fancies himself as the next leader but what kind of world of delusion does anyone have to be living in to believe that Gove could ever be leader of the conservatives? This alone proves he's nuts.


----------



## Manter (Feb 3, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> He's such a dickhead, a ten hour school day? Has he met any kids recently?


I had ten hour school days.... But they were structured to include three meals, and homework and sports, and social time and long breaks and so on- so when you were done you were done, iyswim. 

He's nostalgic for a childhood he didn't have. 

He's also a fucking idiot.


----------



## Manter (Feb 3, 2014)

co-op said:


> I think you're right and he fancies himself as the next leader but what kind of world of delusion does anyone have to be living in to believe that Gove could ever be leader of the conservatives? This alone proves he's nuts.


Agree completely. He's delusional- he doesn't realise how badly he comes across and how weird his random pronouncements sound


----------



## co-op (Feb 3, 2014)

Manter said:


> Agree completely. He's delusional- he doesn't realise how badly he comes across and how weird his random pronouncements sound



Reminds me of


----------



## Manter (Feb 3, 2014)

co-op said:


> Reminds me of


Aaaaaargh! Did you see my posts on the punchable faces thread? I hate that man!!!!


----------



## co-op (Feb 3, 2014)

Manter said:


> Aaaaaargh! Did you see my posts on the punchable faces thread? I hate that man!!!!



I probably should hate him but he just seemed too weird to really hate. Funnily enough I don't find that a problem with Gove.


----------



## Manter (Feb 3, 2014)

co-op said:


> I probably should hate him but he just seemed too weird to really hate. Funnily enough I don't find that a problem with Gove.


I went to school with his daughter so met him quite a few times.

I hate him


----------



## J Ed (Feb 3, 2014)

Nick Robinson on the BBC fucking loves him. Ugh.


----------



## Nylock (Feb 4, 2014)

yeah but tbf nick robinson is a fucking prat


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 4, 2014)

and a known tory liar


----------



## J Ed (Feb 4, 2014)

4.10 onwards, brilliant.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Feb 4, 2014)

J Ed said:


> 4.10 onwards, brilliant.



Is teaching a career people would recommend to others? Fuck, for 20 years I might have done, and then this twat becomes secretary of state and there is no fucking way that I would recommend teaching to anyone just now. The opposite if anything.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Feb 4, 2014)

I found it ironic that when jeremy vine discussed the cronyism allegation the BBC turned to Fraser Nelson. A right wing crony that the BBC turns to constantly.


----------



## Nylock (Feb 4, 2014)

Has there ever been an education secretary who has generated so much antipathy with teachers as Gove? It's going to take years to undo the damage this arrogant fuckwad has done -not only to the education system itself but also the teaching profession at large.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Feb 4, 2014)

Oh labpur, the goal is right there in front of you. There's no one guarding it!

aren't all schools fee paying? what's the point of taxes then?


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 4, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> and a known tory liar


 
hes a scab as well


----------



## brogdale (Feb 4, 2014)

J Ed said:


> 4.10 onwards, brilliant.




Yeah, but....notice how much of that 'interview' was about him, personally...and his crusade for tory support. Not that impressed with Gibbon.
And as for 'Sounds-like II'....he doesn't offer much of an alternative does he. FWIW I think that interviewing by Long was even worse; a poor night for the usually excellent C4 News team.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Feb 4, 2014)

Nylock said:


> Has there ever been an education secretary who has generated so much antipathy with teachers as Gove? It's going to take years to undo the damage this arrogant fuckwad has done -not only to the education system itself but also the teaching profession at large.


Unfortunately he translates that hatred as a sign he's doing the right thing.


----------



## Nylock (Feb 4, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Unfortunately he translates that hatred as a sign he's doing the right thing.


Yep. The guy is a total headbanger. 

When will these fucksticks realise that _sometimes_ enraging most of the workforce is not necessarily a good idea in the pursuit of 'reform' and that sometimes working _with_ the people on the ground is a _good_ thing as opposed to working _against_ them all the fucking time?.

Oh, wait....


----------



## brogdale (Feb 4, 2014)

Nylock said:


> Yep. The guy is a total headbanger.
> 
> When will these fucksticks realise that _sometimes_ enraging most of the workforce is not necessarily a good idea in the pursuit of 'reform' and that sometimes working _with_ the people on the ground is a _good_ thing as opposed to working _against_ them all the fucking time?.
> 
> Oh, wait....



They're not the workforce; they're the VI, the 'blob', the problem, the resistors of improvement, the enemy within, the leftist indoctrinators, the unionised block to progress.....in fact they are all that is wrong with this country...and have to be defeated.


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 4, 2014)

co-op said:


> I think you're right and he fancies himself as the next leader but what kind of world of delusion does anyone have to be living in to believe that Gove could ever be leader of the conservatives? This alone proves he's nuts.


 
I wouldn't discount this - If the media get behind their man, you'll get their man, no matter how much of a buffoon/cunt they appear to anyone actually paying attention.  Hence Boris.


----------



## Manter (Feb 4, 2014)

Dogsauce said:


> I wouldn't discount this - If the media get behind their man, you'll get their man, no matter how much of a buffoon/cunt they appear to anyone actually paying attention.  Hence Boris.


But even the right wing/ establishment papers seem to have serious reservations. Today's times: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




And Rachel Sylvester, who is pretty pro Gove usually, is on the front page of the comment section saying he has alienated his own supporters as well as the 'Blob'


----------



## Awesome Wells (Feb 4, 2014)

How is a 9-10 schoolday ever going to work? Homework clubs - wouldn't they just the same as regular classes?

If the kids attend an extra 3 hours (which means they will have no time for after school independent activities) then how much longer will teaching staff have to work?

And all this so we can compete with China?


----------



## trashpony (Feb 4, 2014)

Manter said:


> But even the right wing/ establishment papers seem to have serious reservations. Today's times:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Matthew Parris said he counts him as a friend but he thinks he's lost his marbles. I do hope that his megalomania has become so apparent that he has to be taken out. I'm sure Cameron wouldn't hesitate to stab him in the back if he becomes a nuisance


----------



## Dogsauce (Feb 4, 2014)

Whilst he's a liability to the government he's better where he is, though that's no consolation to teachers.  Imagine the damage they'd be doing with someone competant in the job.

I'm worried that as the election approaches and this lot realise they're on for a hiding that they'll get even more slash and burn - you've got the hastily privatised railway system (and associated bodycount) as the legacy of the last time that happened.


----------



## nino_savatte (Feb 4, 2014)

Nylock said:


> Has there ever been an education secretary who has generated so much antipathy with teachers as Gove? It's going to take years to undo the damage this arrogant fuckwad has done -not only to the education system itself but also the teaching profession at large.


Kenneth Baker came close but Gove's raced ahead of him.

Michael Gove: more of a busybody than an educationalist. He's the government's equivalent of Coronation Street's Norris Cole.


----------



## likesfish (Feb 4, 2014)

This stuff isnt actually making it into policy is it?
 Is it just sound bites rhat are being thrown out rather randomly
 Bit like pickles


----------



## Manter (Feb 4, 2014)

trashpony said:


> Matthew Parris said he counts him as a friend but he thinks he's lost his marbles. I do hope that his megalomania has become so apparent that he has to be taken out. I'm sure Cameron wouldn't hesitate to stab him in the back if he becomes a nuisance


I've seen quite a few pundits say he is charming IRL. And polite. Committed etc. he's just an idiot sadly...


----------



## neonwilderness (Feb 4, 2014)

https://vine.co/v/Mz3nAKXEtmt


----------



## brogdale (Feb 4, 2014)

neonwilderness said:


> https://vine.co/v/Mz3nAKXEtmt



hoping it was dog shit.


----------



## Nylock (Feb 4, 2014)

neonwilderness said:


> https://vine.co/v/Mz3nAKXEtmt


That never gets old


----------



## not-bono-ever (Feb 7, 2014)

http://www.parentdish.co.uk/2014/02/05/michael-gove-pincushion-on-sale-for-25-pounds/


----------



## J Ed (Feb 7, 2014)

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/feb/07/al-madinah-free-school-secondary finally. If it were a comp it would have been shut over a year ago.


----------



## fractionMan (Feb 7, 2014)

Balbi said:


> We did that in 2012, work to rule.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20696660
> 
> ...



not enough facepalms.


----------



## Dr Jon (Feb 11, 2014)

Gove, leave those teachers alone


----------



## frogwoman (Feb 13, 2014)

Apparently physical activity such as running round a playing field should be used as a punishment.

er wasn't it the tories who sold many playing fields off?


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 13, 2014)

Cos nobody uses laps of the field in PE as a punishment already

personally thats one of the many reasons I boycotted PE for yr 9-11


----------



## Balbi (Feb 13, 2014)

Gove suggested removing DfE guidelines on teacher working hours and school year length, taking/reducing PPA and allowing more teachers to cover each other.

School Teacher's Review Board told him to fuck off and didn't accept any proposals


----------



## brogdale (Feb 14, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Gove suggested removing DfE guidelines on teacher working hours and school year length, taking/reducing PPA and allowing more teachers to cover each other.
> 
> School Teacher's Review Board told him to fuck off and didn't accept any proposals


 Yeah, in the context of Gove's relentless assault on teachers' P&C, this does represent a pause in the revolution...but, but...it is a measure of how thorough the war against organised teachers has been that within this (temporary?) set-back for Gove he has actually destroyed, in one fell swoop, one of the key achievements of the national agreement:-



> Mr Gove did win a concession from the STRB in *convincing them they should remove from the contract a list of 21 specific tasks teachers should not do - such as photocopying, putting up displays and exam invigilating.* It was put in by Labour just over a decade ago in an attempt to head off industrial action over workload.
> 
> This decision, though, *angered UNISON*, the union which represents classroom assistants, which warned it will lead to job cuts amongst support staff.
> 
> ...





...and those of you paying your NUT/NAS subs...notice who was pointing this out.

In the same report... more of the trajectory towards rewards for compliant, feudal, autocratic and bullying management...



> The report also paved the way for higher pay for headteachers - giving governors more powers to offer performance related pay and higher salaries for those who take on extra responsibilities, such as becoming executive head for a group or federation of schools.
> 
> A spokeswoman for the Department for Education said: “The STRB has made a persuasive case for change to leadership pay.
> 
> “These reforms are designed to ensure the most talented leaders are attracted to the teaching profession and are properly rewarded for taking on challenging schools.”


----------



## J Ed (Feb 27, 2014)

http://www.secularism.org.uk/news/2...rimination-against-teachers-in-muslim-schools



> The National Secular Society has warned that the proliferation of religious schools could be opening the door to gender discrimination in the employment of teachers.
> 
> The warning follows the discovery of a job advertisement for a Male Science Teacher placed by Capita Education Resourcing on behalf of an Islamic boys' school in Leicester. The advert was passed on to the NSS by a qualified female science teacher looking for work in the Leicester area.
> 
> ...


----------



## brogdale (Mar 4, 2014)

So Michael & Sarah got their first choice yesterday....


----------



## likesfish (Mar 4, 2014)

He came out with the usual bollocks about wanting more kids in the cadet forces thats usually the terminal stage of madness


----------



## J Ed (Mar 8, 2014)

The future of education UK


----------



## treelover (Mar 8, 2014)

> 'Islamic takeover plot' in Birmingham schools investigated
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-26482599
> 
> 
> > Gove is going to have to deal with a major crisis very soon if the above is true, I wonder how he will respond?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 8, 2014)

treelover said:


> Gove is going to have to deal with a major crisis very soon if the above is true, I wonder how he will respond?



If he does, he'll be responding to a crisis originating from Blair's abject decision to facilitate and encourage state-funded schools with exclusive admission policies predicated upon parents' adherence to super-natural belief systems. Along with the ideological mania for destroying the accountability of elected authorities oversight of state schools, NL are almost completely to blame for this chaos that Gove is presently presiding over.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 8, 2014)

Tbf all the parties were rah rah rah.
 Useless fat middle management grr nasty council run education departments

Like railtrack before apprantly the fat uneeded middle mangement stop the whole thing falling over and exploding in flames


----------



## cesare (Mar 8, 2014)

Michael Gove decides to reach all children himself

Subtle hack stays on DoE website for a month before the fuckers notice it and remove it 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...department-for-education-website-9174645.html


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 8, 2014)

Something about that Birmingham letter doesn't ring true, it sounds like the sort of conspiracy a right-wing loonspud would invent. Wouldn't be entirely surprised if it turns out to be a hoax.


----------



## stavros (Mar 9, 2014)

treelover said:


> Gove is going to have to deal with a major crisis very soon if the above is true, I wonder how he will respond?



Badly no doubt, with punishment of being put on the naughty seat again;


----------



## brogdale (Mar 9, 2014)

stavros said:


> Badly no doubt, with punishment of being put on the naughty seat again;



That's not the naughty seat, but the chair in the _cavernous classroom_ from which Gove teaches _14 million children_.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 14, 2014)

I always defended Michael Gove. Then I met him http://www.spectator.co.uk/features/9158241/the-disturbing-certainty-of-michael-gove/


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2014)

He was, from the very start, monumentally polite, chuckly and benign. We had met before on _Question Time _and he remembered it. He had read my book _The House of Silk_. We chatted about middle-age foibles as I searched for my glasses. Finally, I launched into a fairly general question just to get things going. ‘What is the point of education?’ This got a smile and a frown and then he began: ‘There is a phrase that I’ve used…’


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 14, 2014)

I wonder if Mr Gove has any idea of the hostility he provokes, but when I suggest this to him he bats it away. ‘Education secretaries, for a host of reasons, tend to find themselves at the heart of controversies, more than some other ministers.’


----------



## SLK (Mar 14, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> I wonder if Mr Gove has any idea of the hostility he provokes, but when I suggest this to him he bats it away. ‘Education secretaries, for a host of reasons, tend to find themselves at the heart of controversies, more than some other ministers.’



He's right though.
I've met him. I believe he believes in what he's saying, and believes that his route will improve the lot of working class kids. 
I also agree with his move to knowledge rather than skills. I even think the national curriculum is better then the previous one.
He's ruining any good work here by introducing PRP and dividing schools.

I think education needs to get beyond the stale debate around structures (though on that debate, I disagree with Gove completely) and get on with debating the classroom more, though I recognise that might allow them to churn out more free schools in areas that don't need them.

The worst part is that Hunt seems to be aping the worst parts of Gove and throwing out any of the good curriculum stuff.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 14, 2014)

frogwoman said:


> I wonder if Mr Gove has any idea of the hostility he provokes, but when I suggest this to him he bats it away. ‘Education secretaries, for a host of reasons, tend to find themselves at the heart of controversies, more than some other ministers.’


 
As far as I can tell he is, but thinks it's a good thing by definition. Anyone who disagrees with him in any way is clearly some sort of trendy liberal marxist modernist dinosaur, so the more people who do, the better he's doing.


----------



## Balbi (Mar 14, 2014)

The knowledge over skills stuff is fucking useless for KS1 though. Down here it's ALL skills. The new curriculum has shit all with regards to appropriate levelling targets etc.


----------



## spanglechick (Mar 14, 2014)

Balbi said:


> The knowledge over skills stuff is fucking useless for KS1 though. Down here it's ALL skills. The new curriculum has shit all with regards to appropriate levelling targets etc.


It's not brilliant for drama, either.  Skills-based disciplines get a rough ride with Gove (all practical and creative subjects, basically.)


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 14, 2014)

he's one of those reactionary penii who believe coursework is some hobbycraft nonsense and we should all be leaning dates and monarchs, in fucking Latin


----------



## existentialist (Mar 14, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> he's one of those reactionary penii who believe coursework is some hobbycraft nonsense and we should all be leaning dates and monarchs, in fucking Latin


It certainly sounds like that to hear him speak.

And I am unconvinced over the knowledge vs skills thing - while it certainly shouldn't be all one thing or the other, I do think that equipping people with the skills to research, inquire, and - in this age of Google - critically sift the facts from the dross should be more important than merely learning how to regurgitate facts by rote.

It seems to me that Gove is simply hankering back to some mythical golden age where, by some strange mechanism, learning jingoistic history and Ancient Italian somehow transmutes every child from a toerag into a budding pillar of society. The truth was more that the toerags were more invisible then (perhaps partly because there weren't docudramas made about them for TV?), and frequently sent off to die _en masse_ in the making of further episodes of jingoistic history.


----------



## SLK (Mar 14, 2014)

existentialist said:


> And I am unconvinced over the knowledge vs skills thing - while it certainly shouldn't be all one thing or the other, I do think that equipping people with the skills to research, inquire, and - in this age of Google - critically sift the facts from the dross should be more important than merely learning how to regurgitate facts by rote.



These whole ideas aren't new. They come from Rousseau. Gramsci took them apart.

Thankfully a book has just been published which in my view exposes these as myths:
http://www.amazon.com/Seven-Myths-About-Education-Christodoulou/dp/0415746825

The most common response from critics of the book (when it was an ebook) was that these myths weren't exactly real (ie no-one believes them), but they are of course, as partly shown by your post.

Basically, you can't be a very good or discerning researcher without a schema of knowledge to know whether what you find is making sense.
No-one is saying that individual facts are very useful. Schemas are extremely useful though.

And a really brilliant paper for you: Kirschner, Sweller & Clark – Why Minimal Guidance During Instruction Does Not Work: An Analysis of the Failure of Constructivist, Discovery, Problem-Based, Experiential, and Inquiry-Based Teaching

Christina Ianelli's paper (can't find to link but it's in a Sociology journal) on the role of the curriculum in social mobility shows that when you strip out the impact of poverty (significant) and cultural capital, the most significant difference between grammar schools and other schools was the curriculum. And where there was a difference, this affects the students more significantly the older they get.

Maybe easier reading is Tom Bennett, secondary school teacher writing in the TES a couple of months ago. I agree with him entirely. Tom is an awesome and very funny writer:
http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storyCode=6389557


----------



## likesfish (Mar 15, 2014)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26587418
Fuck me a stuckclock sorings to mind
 Pm has too many posh boys in his cabinet


----------



## spanglechick (Mar 15, 2014)

likesfish said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-26587418
> Fuck me a stuckclock sorings to mind
> Pm has too many posh boys in his cabinet


Oh god that was such a leadership bid.  All that nauseating stuff at the end.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 15, 2014)

It is all nauseating really.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 15, 2014)

teqniq said:


> It is all nauseating really.


 'tis...but...the more explicitly the pretenders posture, the more it tells us that they know they're not going to form the next administration.


----------



## SLK (Mar 15, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Oh god that was such a leadership bid.  All that nauseating stuff at the end.



Do you think? I have believed him when he has previously said he knows his place, partly because I think he's in the role he's most suited to, and (partly connected) because I don't think he's capable of the leadership.

The message about FSM students and top universities is one he's been banging on about for as long as I can remember.


----------



## DairyQueen (Mar 15, 2014)

Not sure what everyone is complaining about.  Michael Gove seems like the best candidate for leading the Conservative Party in the 21st century.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Mar 15, 2014)

DairyQueen said:


> Not sure what everyone is complaining about.  Michael Gove seems like the best candidate for leading the Conservative Party in the 21st century.



from the perspective of the conservative party or the labour party?


----------



## DairyQueen (Mar 15, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> from the perspective of the conservative party or the labour party?


 
I thought his leadership candidate was just a troll attempt of wannabe grandee types from the FT and that Gove as leader would diminish the credibility of modern politics so much that both Labour and the Tories would suffer.


----------



## stavros (Mar 15, 2014)

treelover said:


> Gove is going to have to deal with a major crisis very soon if the above is true, I wonder how he will respond?



Ideally, this will take place in just over a year's time, bringing to bear Tucker's Law;



*Apologies for the doctored version; the original is deemed unsuitable for children for some reason and so blocked.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 16, 2014)

DairyQueen said:


> I thought his leadership candidate was just a troll attempt of wannabe grandee types from the FT and that Gove as leader would diminish the credibility of modern politics so much that both Labour and the Tories would suffer.



Modern politics has credibility?


----------



## jakethesnake (Mar 17, 2014)

This is an interesting article by Michael Rosen about Gove's incompetence and/or corruption...
http://michaelrosenblog.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/gove-nicked-our-schools-and-handed-them.html


----------



## spanglechick (Mar 17, 2014)

Rosen is a very significant voice in the resistance to Gove.   I recommend following him on fb.


----------



## SLK (Mar 18, 2014)

What do people following this thread make of the Policy Exchange report suggestions for OFSTED?


----------



## spanglechick (Mar 18, 2014)

SLK said:


> What do people following this thread make of the Policy Exchange report suggestions for OFSTED?


I think it might be well meant but it will make teaching conditions worse.  At the moment I waste a good couple of hourse every day purely generating evidence for ofsted.  Data is everything.  Kids must reach their flight path targets (plus one, in my school).  Data rules.  

If the emphasis shifts more that way, i'll spend even less time being a good teacher.




I'm more interested in what the fuck is going to happen after the abolition of levels.  From this september's year seven, there won't be levels.  There'll be a year six mark from 1-9, or possibly 10.  Then *apparently*, we don't test, assess or grade them til they sit their gcses, when they'll get another number from 1-9, or possibly 10.  And we won't be told what the gcse syllabuses will contain, until after the kids have finished KS3.  And it's just entirely fucking WTF?

I went to a meeting (unpaid, of course), of all the HoDs in my academy chain the other evening.  and here we all were, hundreds of well-informed, experienced teachers, plus one of gove's principal toadies (given a knighthood last summer for his services to buggering education), and not a single one of us could work out what the fuck is going to happen in september.  In fact for core subjects, they have to start this shit from this september's year nines for first gcse assessment in 2017!

Fu-cking nora...


----------



## SLK (Mar 18, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> I think it might be well meant but it will make teaching conditions worse.  At the moment I waste a good couple of hourse every day purely generating evidence for ofsted.  Data is everything.  Kids must reach their flight path targets (plus one, in my school).  Data rules.
> 
> If the emphasis shifts more that way, i'll spend even less time being a good teacher.
> 
> ...



I think that the report is excellent. It reflects the evidence that you can't reliably or validly judge teacher quality in a one off lesson, let alone a 20 minute one. It means in the majority of inspections teachers at the chalkface won't see OFSTED at all. I think the idea of a Tailored Inspection is not terrible, though I think that should also not include observations. Sadly, it sounds like it will. I

I think data is everything. Sorry! What are we doing if we aren't getting the kids to learn? This doesn't justify the abuse of data that comes from SLTs.

I totally accept that teachers are asked to produce spurious data. One of the issues with this is that levels have been terrible. The same piece of work can get a different level on a different day from the same teacher... the reason is levels were never designed to assess pieces of work, or to be sublevelled, or anything like the abomination we have now!

Levels have gone already though (correctly in my view). So as you say, 2019's performance measures are not clear. I quite like the proposals for 2016. I suspect a standardised Year 6 test is coming very soon. I do like the opportunity we have to sort out assessment without the abomination that is levels.

Not sure what you're saying about 2017, progress 8 (from levels) is pretty clear, isn't it? I'd like to know which academy chain you work for making you go to meetings outside of directed time (or have they ditched that?)


----------



## spanglechick (Mar 18, 2014)

This made me chuckle.  Though it is silly, rather than clever.


----------



## spanglechick (Mar 18, 2014)

SLK said:


> I think that the report is excellent. It reflects the evidence that you can't reliably or validly judge teacher quality in a one off lesson, let alone a 20 minute one. It means in the majority of inspections teachers at the chalkface won't see OFSTED at all. I think the idea of a Tailored Inspection is not terrible, though I think that should also not include observations. Sadly, it sounds like it will. I
> 
> I think data is everything. What are we doing if we aren't getting the kids to learn?
> 
> ...


are you a teacher?


----------



## SLK (Mar 18, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> are you a teacher?



Yes.


----------



## spanglechick (Mar 18, 2014)

SLK said:


> Yes.


So what would you replace levels with that would be more consistent?


----------



## spanglechick (Mar 18, 2014)

And do you believe that the straight-line flight paths of '4 levels of progress' is a sensible way to judge a teacher.  Taking into no account what has come before or what is happening outside?


----------



## SLK (Mar 18, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> So what would you replace levels with that would be more consistent?


I genuinely don't know, but I'm excited by the things schools are developing. I'll gather some links if you like?


----------



## SLK (Mar 18, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> And do you believe that the straight-line flight paths of '4 levels of progress' is a sensible way to judge a teacher.  Taking into no account what has come before or what is happening outside?



I think data is a more valid way to judge a school than unreliable and invalid observations of lessons, yes. I don't believe it's appropriate for individual students, no - but I do believe that schools should ensure their kids make progress. I utterly believe that "taking into account what happens outside" is lowering expectations. I think Amanda Ripley's book The Smartest Kids in the World is great on this, but I've also seen it in practice. Lowest quintile on every measure of educational disadvantage, including a Year 11 that left having had 292 kids (154 finished), such was the churn. Above average results nationally and incredible results on progress. Amazing happy school. Kids with "stuff" going on are dragged through to enhance life chances. Not quite as good as KIPP in America.


----------



## spanglechick (Mar 18, 2014)

SLK said:


> I genuinely don't know, but I'm excited by the things schools are developing. I'll gather some links if you like?


Don't worry, i'm spending hours in meetings reading this shit.  The thing is, you can't scrap something and leave nothing.  This is kids' fucking futures.  Do all the research, decide what's better, put all the fucking stuff in place, and then fucking do it.  

I don't know what your subject is, but in english NC level descriptors are really specific, and there's almost no variation between staff.  In drama there is some because we've never been a NC subject, and also because all the arts have an acknowledged level of subjectiveness in their marking, that would be disasterous to try and eradicate.


----------



## SLK (Mar 18, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Don't worry, i'm spending hours in meetings reading this shit.  The thing is, you can't scrap something and leave nothing.  This is kids' fucking futures.  Do all the research, decide what's better, put all the fucking stuff in place, and then fucking do it.
> 
> I don't know what your subject is, but in english NC level descriptors are really specific, and there's almost no variation between staff.  In drama there is some because we've never been a NC subject, and also because all the arts have an acknowledged level of subjectiveness in their marking, that would be disasterous to try and eradicate.



Fuck me - it's pretty much English that is the example always used as being the least consistent - the worst thing that happened was APP - so a kid could be 3c, 4a,5c,4a, etc etc etc in all the AFs. In fact, the main criticism of levels has been the burden that APP put on English teachers. 

I teach Maths. I think levels are helpful, but wrong, in that things that are L6 build on things you need to know at L7. But levels were NEVER designed to be used like that.

I totally agree that scrapping levels without thinking about what might replace them was wrong, shortsighted, and a travesty.

I'm not clear on why a kid not having a level is ruining their future? I genuinely think we'll still be able to teach them to know a lot of stuff and pass exams if they don't have a level. Why is this "kids' fucking futures"?


----------



## spanglechick (Mar 18, 2014)

SLK said:


> I think data is a more valid way to judge a school than unreliable and invalid observations of lessons, yes. I don't believe it's appropriate for individual students, no - but I do believe that schools should ensure their kids make progress. I utterly believe that "taking into account what happens outside" is lowering expectations. I think Amanda Ripley's book The Smartest Kids in the World is great on this, but I've also seen it in practice. Lowest quintile on every measure of educational disadvantage, including a Year 11 that left having had 292 kids (154 finished), such was the churn. Above average results nationally and incredible results on progress. Amazing happy school. Kids with "stuff" going on are dragged through to enhance life chances. Not quite as good as KIPP in America.


I'm not copping out here.  My school is top 1% for progress nationally.  But - to take one example - in a year where the arrest and imprisonment for murder of one of the kids who had been in the year group, and still a close friend of many, had a catastrophic effect on a large number of their grades in every subejct... there's no mechanism at all to mitigate.  No one looks at the years of excellent progress before that.  Teachers screw up their two years evidence collection for UPS progression...  sometimes stuff happens.


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## SLK (Mar 18, 2014)

I can't believe I've found a teacher defending levels and the data monolith of work that is associated with them. We virtually had a party when they went!


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## SLK (Mar 18, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> I'm not copping out here.  My school is top 1% for progress nationally.  But - to take one example - in a year where the arrest and imprisonment for murder of one of the kids who had been in the year group, and still a close friend of many, had a catastrophic effect on a large number of their grades in every subejct... there's no mechanism at all to mitigate.  No one looks at the years of excellent progress before that.  Teachers screw up their two years evidence collection for UPS progression...  sometimes stuff happens.



Do you work in my school? 2011? Anyway, yes there is. For that one kid you tell the story. For the friends you tell the story. That's the mitigation. English "expected" progress is in the 70%s. And OFSTED take 3 years into account historically (I detest OFSTED) and internal data. There are all sorts of shit things that happen to schools and teachers, but I don't recognise what you're saying. UPS should obviously take that into account. If it's your internal SLT doing it, well that's not the fault of the system. 

I'm no defender of the system. I detest the progressivism promoted by OFSTED and the curriculum that working class kids end up following (ie BTECs and the like).


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## spanglechick (Mar 18, 2014)

SLK said:


> Fuck me - it's pretty much English that is the example always used as being the least consistent - the worst thing that happened was APP - so a kid could be 3c, 4a,5c,4a, etc etc etc in all the AFs. In fact, the main criticism of levels has been the burden that APP put on English teachers.
> 
> I teach Maths. I think levels are helpful, but wrong, in that things that are L6 build on things you need to know at L7. But levels were NEVER designed to be used like that.
> 
> ...


because they need some relaible, measurable way of telling them and their parents how far they need to go to gain the outcomes they need for their future.  In maths i'm sure you can count the number of right and wrong answers and give them a score, but most subjects have an element of interpretation that can't be relected like that.  Drama is pretty much all creative work.

And yes, it fucks with their futures if we experiment without being fully prepared.  What if what happens next year is worse than levels?  Less accurate, less helpful.  What if the kids end up with less of an idea of where they are or how to get where they're going?  That's completely unfair on them.


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## SLK (Mar 19, 2014)

Do you think that if kids don't know a level they achieve less? I disagree. I think the obsession with kids "knowing their levels when OFSTED come" was a load of bollocks. It didn't help. Kids just parroted their levels and what they had to do to improve.

I am more optimistic than you - I think teachers will teach kids just as well and to their potential even if there is no level on them. I don't think an unreliable level is helpful. You will know of cases where the Level 5 English kid can barely write his name, or the EAL kid at Level 1 gets an A*. 

I don't agree that levels are "reliable" at all. I am shocked that you think they are. The only other group of people I know that think that are OFSTED.


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## SLK (Mar 19, 2014)

For what it's worth, I agree with Tom Bennett: http://community.tes.co.uk/tom_benn...ath-of-levels-but-what-do-we-pretend-now.aspx


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## spanglechick (Mar 19, 2014)

SLK said:


> Do you work in my school? 2011? Anyway, yes there is. For that one kid you tell the story. For the friends you tell the story. That's the mitigation. English "expected" progress is in the 70%s. And OFSTED take 3 years into account historically (I detest OFSTED) and internal data. There are all sorts of shit things that happen to schools and teachers, but I don't recognise what you're saying. UPS should obviously take that into account. If it's your internal SLT doing it, well that's not the fault of the system.
> 
> I'm no defender of the system. I detest the progressivism promoted by OFSTED and the curriculum that working class kids end up following (ie BTECs and the like).


No, the trial was last year.  But there is no mitigation allowed.  A drop in results automatically triggers ofsted.  That's what you get if you fetishise data and believe that it can tell you the whole story.	and the new performance management guidelines say that a teacher cannot pass PM if they haven't hit their progress targets - if your school sticks to the rules (and that's what they're there for, then there is no leeway).  Data is king, again.  

Moreover, data says that in Drama (and Sport and fitness, music and art), our targets MUST be set based on their year 6 english and maths results.  So a bookish 11 year old is expected to be the bests sportsman in the school, or the most skilled actor, or the best singer/painter...  It's fucking nonsense.  But if data is allowed to tell the whole picture, then that's what you're reduced to.

I don't mind observations, by comparison.  Come in and watch me teach, talk to the students - see how hungry they are to learn and improve.  My observations are consistently outstanding.  But reduce everything to data and it's sometimes not the 100% picture.  Because outstanding teaching and learning does not get results that fit a straight line of progress.  I can teach impeccably, the kids can work their socks off, we can do after school lessons every night of the week... and some of them still won't get an A in drama gcse, because actually, to get an a you have to have a talent, a gift for acting.


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## spanglechick (Mar 19, 2014)

SLK said:


> Do you think that if kids don't know a level they achieve less? I disagree. I think the obsession with kids "knowing their levels when OFSTED come" was a load of bollocks. It didn't help. Kids just parroted their levels and what they had to do to improve.
> 
> I am more optimistic than you - I think teachers will teach kids just as well and to their potential even if there is no level on them. I don't think an unreliable level is helpful. You will know of cases where the Level 5 English kid can barely write his name, or the EAL kid at Level 1 gets an A*.
> 
> I don't agree that levels are "reliable" at all. I am shocked that you think they are. The only other group of people I know that think that are OFSTED.


I think they're a fucksite more reliable than a completely non-standardised system.  How could they not be?


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## spanglechick (Mar 19, 2014)

and yes, i think having a clear and specific understanding of what ability you are at, and how to make the next step does help students achieve.  Of course it doesn't work if they just 'parrot' their levels - but we should be better teachers than that.


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## SLK (Mar 19, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> No, the trial was last year.  But there is no mitigation allowed.  A drop in results automatically triggers ofsted.



What? Who told you this? It's not true. Find me something in the inspection schedule on the OFSTED website (you won't). Even if OFSTED come, those 6 pupils need case studies. I can't believe I'm defending OFSTED (who I think should be abolished). The report allows for a TI to sort this. It doesn't mean that a school who drops below floor targets won't receive a visit - it may trigger this - but "a drop" does not automatically trigger anything. It's about context.



> That's what you get if you fetishise data and believe that it can tell you the whole story.	and the new performance management guidelines say that a teacher cannot pass PM if they haven't hit their progress targets



Where does it say this? This is your school's interpretation.



> if your school sticks to the rules (and that's what they're there for, then there is no leeway).  Data is king, again.



Link to the rules? (for the record I don't think they exist)



> Moreover, data says that in Drama (and Sport and fitness, music and art), our targets MUST be set based on their year 6 english and maths results.



First, this is maths and English levels, so why are you defending them? Second, this is your school's decision, it's not mandatory.



> So a bookish 11 year old is expected to be the bests sportsman in the school, or the most skilled actor, or the best singer/painter...  It's fucking nonsense.  But if data is allowed to tell the whole picture, then that's what you're reduced to.



I agree - levels are nonsense.



> I don't mind observations, by comparison.  Come in and watch me teach, talk to the students - see how hungry they are to learn and improve.  My observations are consistently outstanding.



Bad news, Professor Coe says they're not reliable or valid. And why would they be? They're an hour of several thousand. The point is that kids need to learn. Here's the link to Coe: http://www.cem.org/blog/414/



> But reduce everything to data and it's sometimes not the 100% picture.  Because outstanding teaching and learning does not get results



What? Can outstanding learning not get results? What outstanding learning means kids are not making progress? I would say they're probably not learning. I agree "outstanding" teaching doesn't lead to results. I think the cult of "outstanding" is the most pernicious thing we've ever seen in education (David Didau has written about this extensively on his blog). 



> that fit a straight line of progress.


 I agree. Read Tom Bennett's blog.



> I can teach impeccably, the kids can work their socks off, we can do after school lessons every night of the week... and some of them still won't get an A in drama gcse, because actually, to get an a you have to have a talent, a gift for acting.



The myth of talent. I hate that. Gladwell, Syed (both popularly), Dweck have destroyed that. I don't agree. But if you have to have a "gift" why do they need a teacher? Difficult question.


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## SLK (Mar 19, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> and yes, i think having a clear and specific understanding of what ability you are at, and how to make the next step does help students achieve.  Of course it doesn't work if they just 'parrot' their levels - but we should be better teachers than that.



What, you can't do the above without levels? Don't be ridiculous. In fact kids in good lessons who are making progress know exactly what they're good at. It's why 50 year olds still say "I was shit at algebra but great at times tables" or whatever.


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## Delroy Booth (Mar 19, 2014)

SLK said:


> What, you can't do the above without levels? Don't be ridiculous. In fact kids in good lessons who are making progress know exactly what they're good at. It's why 50 year olds still say "I was shit at algebra but great at times tables" or whatever.



agree with you 100% on this levels are stupid, they should've been scrapped ages ago


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## SLK (Mar 19, 2014)

Plus we taught perfectly well without levels for many years. Levels made things worse.


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## Balbi (Mar 19, 2014)

I'll go up to bat for levels, as part of an equal national education system. It's not the levelling of work that's keeping me awake until 2am, it's the planning and ridiculously specific marking scheme which isn't related to levels.

In Primary, levels are pretty important for tracking the often chaotic and uneven progress young children make. In particular the sub levels of progress, which have also been scrapped. Each school making their own up means that children transferring from one to another is going to be entertainingly bureaucratic in terms of assessing the incoming child.

It also, and this is from my current experience, can mean that what was previously a National Standard Level 1 is mysteriously now a Level 2 in the schools own form of assessment.

Which is madness, because when the statutory tests come along, all of those Level 2 kids will grade solid 1's because the expectation of the statutory tests will be linked to an assessment criteria which isn't matched to the schools.

It's useful for teachers, who are pretty mobile, to know that L1 = this, as a guide for understanding. God help moving to a new school and having to pick up an entirely different range of assessment.

It's a neat little trick though. Break the pay spine for the country, break the system up with Academies and Free Schools and then dissolve the national standards of expectation except in DfE statutory tests at a time when the new curriculum is about to seriously fuck with teacher capability to implement. It means that they can cover their arses at the DfE if all of these reforms fuck the system over and exam grades go haywire, by blaming schools for poor assessment.

You may have partied SLK, but the cure could well be worse than the apparent illness.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 19, 2014)

SLK said:


> I think that the report is excellent. It reflects the evidence that you can't reliably or validly judge teacher quality in a one off lesson, let alone a 20 minute one. It means in the majority of inspections teachers at the chalkface won't see OFSTED at all. I think the idea of a Tailored Inspection is not terrible, though I think that should also not include observations. Sadly, it sounds like it will. I
> 
> I think data is everything. Sorry! What are we doing if we aren't getting the kids to learn? This doesn't justify the abuse of data that comes from SLTs.
> 
> ...



Still, odd how many of us got a good education before all this bureaucratic encumberance existed.


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## Balbi (Mar 19, 2014)

Indeed, but I suspect that there wasn't one specific year where they binned both the curriculum and the national levels. Doing all of that in one go smacks of last year of office desperation for a legacy 

I'm all for reforming levelling and assessment, reducing workload. I'm all for an effective useful curriculum. This strategy of Gove's delivers neither.


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## superfly101 (Mar 19, 2014)

> Channel 4 series Educating Yorkshire landed a top TV award as one of the stars of the show hit out at the education secretary Michael Gove. The programme collected the best documentary series prize at the Royal Television Society awards staged in London.
> 
> Michael Steer, a maths teacher who was a regular face on the series set in Dewsbury's Thornhill community academy, offered an unflattering dedication as he picked up the award.
> 
> He told guests from the TV industry: "On behalf of teachers I'd like to dedicate this award to Michael Gove and I mean dedicate in the Anglo Saxon sense, which means insert roughly into the anus of."


http://www.theguardian.com/media/2014/mar/19/rts-awards-rude-message-michael-gove


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## SLK (Mar 19, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Still, odd how many of us got a good education before all this bureaucratic encumberance existed.



I couldn't agree more.


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## SLK (Mar 19, 2014)

Balbi said:


> I'll go up to bat for levels, as part of an equal national education system. It's not the levelling of work that's keeping me awake until 2am, it's the planning and ridiculously specific marking scheme which isn't related to levels.
> 
> In Primary, levels are pretty important for tracking the often chaotic and uneven progress young children make. In particular the sub levels of progress, which have also been scrapped. Each school making their own up means that children transferring from one to another is going to be entertainingly bureaucratic in terms of assessing the incoming child.
> 
> ...



So you're going to bat for something that wasn't even designed for the thing it's being used for. 

Levels were* never* designed to assess pieces of work.


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## Balbi (Mar 19, 2014)

And the internet was for universities to talk to each other, your point?


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## stavros (Mar 19, 2014)

Mr Steer from _Educating Yorkshire_ sticks it to Gove.


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## SLK (Mar 19, 2014)

Balbi said:


> And the internet was for universities to talk to each other, your point?


Levelling work is not a reliable assessment. Not surprising as that's not what levels are for. Not surprising as levels largely assess vague "skills" and not surprising given the breadth of levels (students can be level 8 on one thing (though a different teacher will give level 7) and level 4 on another). They're ridiculous.


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## Gingerman (Mar 19, 2014)

stavros said:


> Mr Steer from _Educating Yorkshire_ sticks it to Gove.


 Watch Gove's attack dogs like Toby Young do a job on him.......


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> Levelling work is not a reliable assessment. Not surprising as that's not what levels are for. Not surprising as levels largely assess vague "skills" and not surprising given the breadth of levels (students can be level 8 on one thing (though a different teacher will give level 7) and level 4 on another). They're ridiculous.



Every post of yours reeks of you having absorbed managerialism.


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## Balbi (Mar 20, 2014)

http://teacherroar.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/why-i-am-striking.html?m=1

I got a guest spot blogging for TeacherROAR.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Every post of yours reeks of you having absorbed managerialism.



Thanks for the ad hominem. Do you actually have a counterargument?


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## chainsawjob (Mar 20, 2014)

Balbi said:


> http://teacherroar.blogspot.co.uk/2014/03/why-i-am-striking.html?m=1
> 
> I got a guest spot blogging for TeacherROAR.


No one is striking at my child's school. Why? Grrr


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

chainsawjob said:


> No one is striking at my child's school. Why? Grrr



Sadly divided, in part by NASUWTs shocking climbdown. The NUT delaying the last strike with no promises of anything didn't help either.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> Thanks for the ad hominem. Do you actually have a counterargument?



It's not an _ad hominem_ (check out the meaning, then facepalm yourself).  It's an opinion on the content of your posts, where you've continually pooh-poohed things that don't, in your opinion, give accurate measures/assessments.
An _ad hominem_ would have been "I bet you're a shit maths teacher, you're so managerialist".

Just to add, I doubt you're a "shit maths teacher", in case you take the example personally.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's not an _ad hominem_ (check out the meaning, then facepalm yourself).  It's an opinion on the content of your posts, where you've continually pooh-poohed things that don't, in your opinion, give accurate measures/assessments.
> An _ad hominem_ would have been "I bet you're a shit maths teacher, you're so managerialist".
> 
> Just to add, I doubt you're a "shit maths teacher", in case you take the example personally.



You commented on me as a person rather than the actual content of the posts.
Yes, I pooh-poohed National Curriculum levels. They've received widespread condemnation and I've given links to better explanations than mine. I'm not really sure what the problem with condemning something for not effectively doing what it is supposed to be doing is? You clearly don't have a counterargument so you went for the person.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> (check out the meaning, then facepalm yourself)



Jesus Christ. Seriously?


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## Balbi (Mar 20, 2014)

Are you a secondary teacher SLK?


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## spanglechick (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> Levelling work is not a reliable assessment. Not surprising as that's not what levels are for. Not surprising as levels largely assess vague "skills" and not surprising given the breadth of levels (students can be level 8 on one thing (though a different teacher will give level 7) and level 4 on another). They're ridiculous.


So what is it that we're replacing them with that will be more reliable.  It's like, my PVR sometimes records things but won't play them back properly.  It needs replacing.  But until I have something better to replace it with, I won't just go without entirely, cos most of the time, it's fine. 

Also, why the scare quotes around "skills"?


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> So what is it that we're replacing them with that will be more reliable.  It's like, my PVR sometimes records things but won't play them back properly.  It needs replacing.  But until I have something better to replace it with, I won't just go without entirely, cos most of the time, it's fine.
> 
> Also, why the scare quotes around "skills"?



I think some teachers have some form of Stockholm syndrome about levels.

Did you teach before levels? Were you able to assess and formulate a way forward. Levels were supposed to summarise assessment for each key stage. As has been correctly said, they weren't supposed to be bastardised and form targets and awful assumptions about linear progress in all subjects. Worse, they formed the growth of things like APP - which led to dozens of hours being spent levelling on different Assessment Foci every week in the core subjects (fortunately the materials were never distributed for all the foundation subjects as the people writing them got stuck, realising (apparently) that levels aren't for that - I think that was the start of the end [and then there was a change in government anyway])

That's up to schools to work out a valid form of assessment. I've already said I don't know what they're being replaced with - and I do have concerns about that. I'd much rather there was a ready made replacement. I know several Academy chains are working something out and will probably sell their models. There are already several different and better models on the market for maths than levels.

I understand some of my peers worries that the system of assessment won't be transferable between schools, but I genuinely think nothing is better than levels as they currently stand - they mitigate against progress, cap aspiration, and are an insult to teachers with subject knowledge. Daisy Christodoulou has collected a series of links with really exciting things that teachers and others are doing with the opportunity here: http://thewingtoheaven.wordpress.com/2014/03/17/replacing-national-curriculum-levels/ 

Incidentally, Tom Sherrington in that list has just been appointed head of Highbury Grove, which will be excellent for them.

Also from that link, this paper: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1467-9817.1995.tb00063.x/abstract shows that students with a KS1 level 2 in reading had reading ages varying from 5-10. As if levels are helpful assessments!


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## spanglechick (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> I think some teachers have some form of Stockholm syndrome about levels.
> 
> Did you teach before levels? Were you able to assess and formulate a way forward. Levels were supposed to summarise assessment for each key stage. As has been correctly said, they weren't supposed to be bastardised and form targets and awful assumptions about linear progress in all subjects. Worse, they formed the growth of things like APP - which led to dozens of hours being spent levelling on different Assessment Foci every week in the core subjects (fortunately the materials were never distributed for all the foundation subjects as the people writing them got stuck, realising (apparently) that levels aren't for that - I think that was the start of the end [and then there was a change in government anyway])
> 
> ...


i thin k you're misunderstanding what I and others are saying to you.  No one is saying keep levels forever.  We're just saying we want something better first.  If the problem is inconsistency across different schools and staff, what you're suggesting surely just makes that worse... because surely you don't imagine that when we scrap levels they'll be abandoning the overwhelming tracking and monitoring we have now? How will they implement PRP  if we don't have standardised progress?	Gove is a cunt who presumes all teachers are incompetent and he and his minions will keep scrutinising the data until he proves that they are.  There's no fucking way that we won't have some kind of measurable progress standard, and for teachers' own protection, that needs to be nationally recognised.

Of course, BITD we taught without levels, but in the past we weren't dealing with the performance management we have now and ofsted's criteria were completely different.   Much as i'd love it, scrapping levels will do nothing to take us back to a time when teachers were trusted to oversee students' progress.  What I will put money on, is that we'll be pressured just as much to achieve ridiculous, linear targets, but be robbed of any metric to map our progress to them.


And I'd still like to know what you meant by putting "skills" in scare quotes, because as a teacher of a skills subject, it seems properly fucking arrogant.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

Levels do not ensure consistency, they are not just open to interpretation, but less effective than throwing a dice. Have you read any of the links I've given you or are you just determined to repeat the same thing. Levels are not suitable for purpose. By ditching them we ditch nothing useful.

I'm glad you've backed down on suggesting we can't tell kids how well they're doing or where they have to go without levels. 

Earlier you were saying they were necessary for kids to know where they are and the English levels were accurate. Then I showed you that one level can be a difference of 5 years in reading ages (hence illustrating they're not only not accurate, but wildly nuts - I said that English is often used as the levels that are observably impossible to use), and now it's for teachers' protection in a performance management system. It sounds like you're not really sure why you're defending them. And it sounds like you haven't bothered to read any links.

We're an academy and due to our freedoms we're not imposing PRP. There's also nothing in the OFSTED evaluation schedule about it (despite inspectors believing there is) and we're confident enough to challenge any suggestion that we should provide the "anonymised piece of paper".

I also think that the scrapping of levels has encouraged schools to explore alternatives to levels. I gave another link to colleagues who are, and there are hundreds more examples. If levels still existed, it's unlikely that we'd be doing this. Events like the research in education conference in Birmingham, or the one in York, both of which I'm attending on my weekends, wouldn't have as big a focus on assessment. And I genuinely think developing an assessment system that is fit for purpose is the most important thing schools can be doing in the medium term at the moment.

I've no idea why I put skills in scare quotes. If you're determined to be offended I've given my view earlier and you've said you disagree. As I've said earlier that skills are built on knowledge and don't transfer across disciplines, and that I follow the argument in the seven myths about education. I think I pointed out Tom Bennett's superb front page TES from earlier this year. A basic version is that I think that skills are two or more pieces of knowledge rubbing against each other.

You don't agree. Be offended if you like. You have made all sorts of assertions about things that are supposed to (eg) "happen automatically" and then refuse to back that up when I ask you to.

I'd prefer there was something else in place. That doesn't mean we should keep an assessment system that is foisted on schools (sadly it still is by OFSTED as inspectors fail to get the message handed down by Cladingbowl and the like) and is inferior to that which trained teachers of subjects are able to come up with themselves.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Are you a secondary teacher SLK?


Yes


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## Balbi (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> Yes



Thought so. It's a different world up there


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Thought so. It's a different world up there



Yes, people have different views about that. A lot of people say that we should work closer together, but I read a primary head's blog recently that suggested they shouldn't bother with secondaries. I can't remember the logic. I might try to find it.


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## Balbi (Mar 20, 2014)

Probably that you're an emotionless pitiless meatgrinder to our careful raising and educating of what are, for the most part, 3/4 year old children through 7 or 8 years of incredibly vital socialisation and skills building. But I don't think that. Oh no.


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## spanglechick (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> Levels do not ensure consistency, they are not just open to interpretation, but less effective than throwing a dice. Have you read any of the links I've given you or are you just determined to repeat the same thing. Levels are not suitable for purpose. By ditching them we ditch nothing useful.
> 
> I'm glad you've backed down on suggesting we can't tell kids how well they're doing or where they have to go without levels.
> 
> ...


I read your fucking links you twat, I just left the thread the other day because your blinkered idiocy was making me stressed and i get enough of that at work. But, you know, imagine you've 'won' if it makes you feel better.  I'm glad you work for a benevolent academy.  My experience couldn't be more different, and sadly my experience is far from uncommon and becoming the norm, if not already.  I do still believe levels as they relate to the two subjects i'm qualified to teach at the ages i'm qualified to teach them are broadly accurate.  I used to mark English SATs, back when they had them in y9.  The marking criteria were clear and were being used by teachers in their ongoing assessments.  Your links support your perspective. But they too are just opinion.  They don't make it fact, any more than any links I can post would make my opinions fact.  

About skills, perhaps you have an odd idea of what skills are.  As does this Tom Bennett.  But lots of people disagree with you.  Tell me what knowledge you think Art or drama should be teaching.  Please.  Because I'll tell you - it's about 5% of the drama curriculum - pretty much just 'knowing the right words for stuff'.  Everything else is learning new skills techniques and getting better at them. Now I'm sure that's miles away from your subject...  but that's why we can't design the fucking curriculum with a one-size-fits-all template.  

Have you noticed how little support your perspective is receiving, btw?  I've never met a teacher supportive of this process...  except for one who' s a fucking scab anyway, and when challenged on that said that she doesn't see herself teaching in five years and instead hopes to be a Tory party adviser on education. I said when i raised the subject on this thread that I went to a massive meeting about this the other day and nobody, including one of Gove's closest advisors, the guy who runs our academy chain, had anything positive to say about it.


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## Balbi (Mar 20, 2014)

Trying to establish a legacy innit


----------



## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> I read your fucking links you twat



Nice.

Why are you stressed about someone asking you for a link to positive assertions you made? Or are you stressed because you were wrong?



> I used to mark English SATs, back when they had them in y9.  The marking criteria were clear and were being used by teachers in their ongoing assessments.



Summative marking criteria of several papers whose marks then created an overall level were appropriate for marking individual pieces of work. Nice.



> About skills, perhaps you have an odd idea of what skills are.  As does this Tom Bennett.  But lots of people disagree with you.  Tell me what knowledge you think Art or drama should be teaching.


  How to act, what to appreciate, what is good. Art is an incredibly academic subject, and I can't quite believe you'd say that. Interesting though.



> Have you noticed how little support your perspective is receiving, btw?


 Which one? No, I haven't at all. I've noticed that it's widely accepted.



> I've never met a teacher supportive of this process...



What process?



> except for one who' s a fucking scab anyway, and when challenged on that said that she doesn't see herself teaching in five years and instead hopes to be a Tory party adviser on education. I said when i raised the subject on this thread that I went to a massive meeting about this the other day and nobody, including one of Gove's closest advisors, the guy who runs our academy chain, had anything positive to say about it.



Say about what? Replacing levels or something else. I've sent you a load of links on that. There are lots of subjects on this thread. Which one did you raise? I have spoken with Tom Shinner on some of the things we've raised here, but I know he's not whom you're talking about. Was it John and Caroline Nash?


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> How to act, what to appreciate, what is good. Art is an incredibly academic subject, and I can't quite believe you'd say that. Interesting though.


Isn't the point about practising and exploring techniques? There is no consensus among 'experts' in the art world (scare-quotes intended) about what to appreciate or what is good - you think there should be among schoolchildren?


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Isn't the point about practising and exploring techniques? There is no consensus among 'experts' in the art world (scare-quotes intended) about what to appreciate or what is good - you think there should be among schoolchildren?



No, but I think Art History is important. 
I totally agree on practising techniques. Not sure how much exploring is necessary. They're novices. Surely mastering stuff to become an expert is necessary before exploring (I think recent cognitive science such as that in Why don't students like school? by Daniel Willingham is very strong on the difference between novices and experts and not trying to get novices to ape experts).


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## Balbi (Mar 20, 2014)

Oh for fucks sake. Educational theorists for whom the classroom is but a distant memory. Get to fuck already.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

Ultimately I think the aim of education should be to induct young people into what Michael Oakeshott calls the conversation of mankind. This means exposing them to the intellectual conventions of disciplines so that as experts they can participate and flourish in them.
I've no idea  why this is underlined. Sorry.

Anyway, an amazing book on marrying the lessons of the future and the past is Martin Robinson's Trivium 21st Century. He is a drama teacher and I'm utterly convinced by his research.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Oh for fucks sake. Educational theorists for whom the classroom is but a distant memory. Get to fuck already.



Who, Willingham?

So you don't think education should be research led? You see no value in cognitive science? I'd be interested in a more lucid critique - the only person really advancing this view at the Research in Education conference last year was Frank Furedi and I don't find him convincing at all. He accused me of having my head in the sand like the catholic church of the past.


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 20, 2014)

That's a fair point about practising first. Which can be hard work, which is why such a low proportion of novices make it to expert level.

I enjoyed art at school but was quickly judged not to be very good at it. I wasn't allowed that time to practise, although I gave up pretty easily too. From my perspective, this is what was lacking in my education - the space just to enjoy doing something without the prospect of being judged hanging over you all the time. That space was closed up completely when I left primary school.

If you want to talk about 'why students don't like school', that would be top of my list. Turn something into a chore, an assignment to be marked, and you suck the enjoyment out of it while also reducing capacity. Studies have been done showing that doing things for fun rather than for a specific reward can disinhibit the search for connections and new ways of looking at things.


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## Balbi (Mar 20, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's a fair point about practising first. Which can be hard work, which is why such a low proportion of novices make it to expert level.
> 
> I enjoyed art at school but was quickly judged not to be very good at it. I wasn't allowed that time to practise, although I gave up pretty easily too. From my perspective, this is what was lacking in my education - the space just to enjoy doing something without the prospect of being judged hanging over you all the time. That space was closed up completely when I left primary school.



It's pretty closed in Primary. What with the Phonics screen in Year 1, SATS in Year 2, the threat of OFSTED hanging over and the three year process of attaining the good SATS level, then everything that doesn't get examined gets binned off in favour of getting those results.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That's a fair point about practising first. Which can be hard work, which is why such a low proportion of novices make it to expert level.
> 
> I enjoyed art at school but was quickly judged not to be very good at it. I wasn't allowed that time to practise, although I gave up pretty easily too. From my perspective, this is what was lacking in my education - the space just to enjoy doing something without the prospect of being judged hanging over you all the time. That space was closed up completely when I left primary school.



I really believe in overlearning, which is why I'm quite critical of AFL. Interestingly, it appears Dilan Wiliam is coming to this view (he does believe we should be research led) according to his twitter. The problem with AFL and modern education is that we practice something until we get it right. In fact we should (and hence our students should) be practicing something until we never get it wrong. Practice makes permanent (a Doug Lemov phrase) though, so we have to practice correctly (hence need to the teacher).

If we practice enough whatever technique/ skill/ fact (times tables and number bonds, please practice these so no student comes to secondary without them, and don't worry about algebra and prime numbers - something I think primaries did before levels but have been forced to abandon since levels came in) enough it gets into long term memory, doesn't clog up working memory and hence doesn't cause cognitive overload.


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 20, 2014)

Balbi said:


> It's pretty closed in Primary. What with the Phonics screen in Year 1, SATS in Year 2, the threat of OFSTED hanging over and the three year process of attaining the good SATS level, then everything that doesn't get examined gets binned off in favour of getting those results.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

Balbi said:


> It's pretty closed in Primary. What with the Phonics screen in Year 1, SATS in Year 2, the threat of OFSTED hanging over and the three year process of attaining the good SATS level, then everything that doesn't get examined gets binned off in favour of getting those results.



I believe practice gets results and ime it does, but I obviously have extremely limited experience of primary.


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## Balbi (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> I believe practice gets results and ime it does, but I obviously have extremely limited experience of primary.



Results in taking the tests, which are alien to actual teaching and learning. And real life.

And hey, there's a test for 4 year olds coming!


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> I In fact we should (and hence our students should) be practicing something until we never get it wrong. Practice makes permanent (a Doug Lemov phrase) though, so we have to practice correctly (hence need to the teacher).


That applies 100 per cent to martial arts training. It certainly has its place.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Results in taking the tests, which are alien to actual teaching and learning. And real life.



Yes, I think practice is great for learning. I also think more practice results in better test marks. I am about to read Daniel Korutz (not sure of spelling) book on assessment and he makes the point that you can only test a sample of knowledge and every test is imperfect. I will report back afterwards if you like.


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## spanglechick (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> Nice.
> 
> Why are you stressed about someone asking you for a link to positive assertions you made? Or are you stressed because you were wrong?
> 
> ...


Nice?  you have insulted my teaching and appear to think you know more about teaching arts subjects than a qualified, experienced teacher of those subjects with an 'Outstanding' track record.  can you see why people might not like you very much?

No, what was stressing me was your Gove-like insistence that your opinion is the correct one and refusal to accept the common voice of other teachers on this very thread. I believe the phrase is *head-desk*. It's like been lectured at by a particularly aggressive brick wall.


And "how to act" *is* fucking skill.  "how to explore a work of art" is also a skill ("what to appreciate", "what is good" would indeed be knowledge, but thank fuck we don't tell kids what they should appeciate!  We help them to see why other people might appreciate it, just as we do with literature... but edcuation telling kids what arts they should like?  Do you know any arts teachers?! - And art is not art history.  They are separate subjects).  Art is an academic subject, as is theatre studies.  But even at A level, by far the majority of assessment is reliant on the demonstration of skill.  At GCSE, for both subjects, it is almost exclusively this.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That applies 100 per cent to martial arts training. It certainly has its place.



The example often used is chess. A chess expert doesn't look at lots of things a novice does, because all those positions are committed to long term memory.


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## Balbi (Mar 20, 2014)

Yeah, we practice skills in contextual situations, with real life purpose. Then we present them with a test and these kids go 'WTF!'


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Nice?  you have insulted my teaching and appear to think you know more about teaching arts subjects than a qualified, experienced teacher of those subjects with an 'Outstanding' track record.  can you see why people might not like you very much?



How have I insulted your teaching? That's a particularly bizarre claim given I don't know who you are and I've never seen you teach. I've certainly not called you a twat.



> No, what was stressing me was your Gove-like insistence that your opinion is the correct one and refusal to accept the common voice of other teachers on this very thread. I believe the phrase is *head-desk*. It's like been lectured at by a particularly aggressive brick wall.



Well of course I think my opinion is correct. If I didn't, it wouldn't be my opinion. And I agree and disagree with a number of things on the thread.



> And "how to act" *is* fucking skill.  "how to explore a work of art" is also a skill ("what to appreciate", "what is good" would indeed be knowledge, but thank fuck we don't tell kids what they should appeciate!  We help them to see why other people might appreciate it, just as we do with literature... but edcuation telling kids what arts they should like?  Do you know any arts teachers?! - And art is not art history.  They are separate subjects).  Art is an academic subject, as is theatre studies.  But even at A level, by far the majority of assessment is reliant on the demonstration of skill.  At GCSE, for both subjects, it is almost exclusively this.



We're OK then. I won't start on my real critique of Drama tonight as it might stress you out because I think my opinion is correct. Interestingly, do you think your opinions are not correct?

You found any evidence for the assertions you made earlier? - I presume they were the common sense ones you claim everyone agrees with such as "if results go down..." or other stuff.


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## spanglechick (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> How have I insulted your teaching? I've never seen you teach. I've certainly not called you a twat.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know what?  For the second time in three days, the way you have dismissed everything I've said and all my experience has brought me to fucking breaking point.  But it's not about you. Rationally I know that from your experience in your nice school where they don't jump to whatever Gove suggests you can't see what is going on elsewhere, and you can afford to be optimistic.

I nearly resigned this afternoon after SLT decided to cut the whole week of my GCSE kids' lesson the week before their final performances because they want them all to sit in the hall for a week and get another set of mock results (the third since xmas).  They're doing it purely to evidence for any potential ofsted that we did what we could to track their data and implement targeted interventions, that they can then prove were working.  I was crying my eyes out and genuinely had suicidal thoughts because if i don't get 100% A*-C this year, it's been made very clear that i will be managed out of the school.  That's the fucking reality in a lot of schools and for a growing number of teachers.  It's a toxic, toxic environment, and an unsutainable way to run a school.  But it's the job i have, and thanks to Gove's sidelining of the arts, over 20% of drama posts have been cut in the last 2 years.  So I'm trapped.  And I know that this new initiative will increase my workload and be another stick to beat teachers with.  I'm good at my fucking job.  The kids love learning and my results (until last year) have been way ahead of national average - 100% A*-C in the previous three years.  And yeah, I'm fucking "outstanding".  But I live in genuine, moment-by-moment terror that any minute the head will demand perfection in something else, and the house of cards will come tumbling down. 

So I do apologise that I have been emotional.  Obviously I think you're wrong, and I think your style of debate is to never concede anyone else's point, which is hardly endearing... but the strength of my reaction is not about you.  You're allowed to be wrong on the internet.  people are.  I hope you never have to find out what it's like in less friendly schools.  I suspect you will, though.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> You know what?  For the second time in three days, the way you have dismissed everything I've said and all my experience has brought me to fucking breaking point.  But it's not about you. Rationally I know that from your experience in your nice school where they don't jump to whatever Gove suggests you can't see what is going on elsewhere, and you can afford to be optimistic.
> 
> I nearly resigned this afternoon after SLT decided to cut the whole week of my GCSE kids' lesson the week before their final performances because they want them all to sit in the hall for a week and get another set of mock results (the third since xmas).  They're doing it purely to evidence for any potential ofsted that we did what we could to track their data and implement targeted interventions, that they can then prove were working.  I was crying my eyes out and genuinely had suicidal thoughts because if i don't get 100% A*-C this year, it's been made very clear that i will be managed out of the school.  That's the fucking reality in a lot of schools and for a growing number of teachers.  It's a toxic, toxic environment, and an unsutainable way to run a school.  But it's the job i have, and thanks to Gove's sidelining of the arts, over 20% of drama posts have been cut in the last 2 years.  So I'm trapped.  And I know that this new initiative will increase my workload and be another stick to beat teachers with.  I'm good at my fucking job.  The kids love learning and my results (until last year) have been way ahead of national average - 100% A*-C in the previous three years.  And yeah, I'm fucking "outstanding".  But I live in genuine, moment-by-moment terror that any minute the head will demand perfection in something else, and the house of cards will come tumbling down.
> 
> So I do apologise that I have been emotional.  Obviously I think you're wrong, and I think your style of debate is to never concede anyone else's point, which is hardly endearing... but the strength of my reaction is not about you.  You're allowed to be wrong on the internet.  people are.  I hope you never have to find out what it's like in less friendly schools.  I suspect you will, though.



I worked in one for many years. The head retired and it's a different place. It is in the bottom quintile of educational disadvantage and is far from "outstanding" (though it's improving hugely).

Anyway, I'm very sorry about what has happened above. I agree that it's unacceptable. I know someone who is writing about the disgraceful practices of some academy chains.

I'm not sure if this will make you feel better or worse, but a friend of mine has attempted to catalogue the stresses of teachers here, partly to get it recognised:

http://teachingbattleground.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/the-darkest-term-teacher-stress-and-depression/ 

Incidentally, are they calling these exams "pre-public examinations"? Are you a PiXL school?

I'm sorry your school is treating you as above and I recognise the stupid stuff schools are encouraged to do (I think what you write about above is a version of gaming the system) is the reason this happens.


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 20, 2014)

Fuck that's appalling.

Sorry if I'm being slow, but kids are set three sets of mock exams?


The recent teacher threads here have been an eye-opener for me. It sounds really quite mad. I know Kafkaesque is overused, but it's Kafkaesque.


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## spanglechick (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> I worked in one for many years. The head retired and it's a different place. It is in the bottom quintile of educational disadvantage and is far from "outstanding" (though it's improving hugely).
> 
> Anyway, I'm very sorry about what has happened above. I agree that it's unacceptable. I know someone who is writing about the disgraceful practices of some academy chains.
> 
> ...


Not a pixl school - our academy chain (25 schools and counting) likes to be self-sufficient  

We are 70% free school meals, but are, as i said, in the top one percent for progress.  Every y10 and 11 student has complusory evening school five nights a week, staffed by teachers who are not paid for these extra teaching hours, obv. 

The mocks are exactly that: mocks.  Every student in year ten and year 11.  By the time the year tens finish next summer they'll have had nine or ten sets ofmocks, in the hall, under exam conditions, paid invigilators, results returned in a sealed envelope, the lot.  And will have missed nine or ten whole weeks of teaching.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Fuck that's appalling.
> 
> Sorry if I'm being slow, but kids are set three sets of mock exams?
> 
> ...



There are all sorts of techniques that *do* get results up. eg "Walking talking mocks", small group sessions where individual bits of knowledge have been identified as gaps for 4 kids, are didactically taught and then tested (spaced, repeated testing is a bit of cogitive science that is fascinating and really useful for all subjects). The problem is they are resource heavy, particularly around time, including teacher time - so schools inevitably focus on English and Maths. And ignore other subjects because if a kid gets a C in English and Maths they rarely don't get three others (and headline measures are 5 C+ grades inc E/M.

The accountability measures for 2016 will be better, but E/M will still count double and kids will need three EBACC subjects so that they don't risk going into an automatic OFSTED (I am getting technical but an average of -0.5 on progress will trigger OFSTED).

Anyway, point being I'm not against testing, even thrice. But not for OFSTED and not with no notice and not at the expense of results in other subjects to the extent described alongside the continued pressure spanglechick describes.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Not a pixl school - our academy chain (25 schools and counting) likes to be self-sufficient
> 
> We are 70% free school meals, but are, as i said, in the top one percent for progress.  Every y10 and 11 student has complusory evening school five nights a week, staffed by teachers who are not paid for these extra teaching hours, obv.
> 
> The mocks are exactly that: mocks.  Every student in year ten and year 11.  By the time the year tens finish next summer they'll have had nine or ten sets ofmocks, in the hall, under exam conditions, paid invigilators, results returned in a sealed envelope, the lot.  And will have missed nine or ten whole weeks of teaching.



Oh, you've given enough clues that I think . Are you sure there aren't 31 schools in your chain now? 

I know some stories about your academy chain that will be blogged anonymously soon (and one other chain).


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 20, 2014)

SLK said:


> Anyway, point being I'm not against testing, even thrice.


I am. Nine sets of mock exams? Nine? I've never even imagined such a thing.

I normally twat on a bit on here, but I'm speechless at that.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I am. Nine sets of mock exams? Nine? I've never even imagined such a thing.
> 
> I normally twat on a bit on here, but I'm speechless at that.


yes, I don't understand the point of nine.


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## spanglechick (Mar 20, 2014)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I am. Nine sets of mock exams? Nine? I've never even imagined such a thing.
> 
> I normally twat on a bit on here, but I'm speechless at that.


yup. we had the normal ones after xmas, but for all year 10 and 11.  Then we had another set after half term.  Now they've decided it will be a regular thing every half term.


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> yup. we had the normal ones after xmas, but for all year 10 and 11.  Then we had another set after half term.  Now they've decided it will be a regular thing every half term.



To mark and moderate a set of mocks in maths takes over three hours. In English, it's more like seven or eight (as I'm sure you know). There is colossal opportunity cost going on here.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 20, 2014)

Pupils also seem to have a lot of 'controlled assessments' too. They're always under pressure and they complain a lot about it, not unreasonably. Lots of homework too.


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 20, 2014)

(((poor fucking kids))))


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## SLK (Mar 20, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Pupils also seem to have a lot of 'controlled assessments' too. They're always under pressure and they complain a lot about it, not unreasonably. Lots of homework too.



I didn't think anything could be worse than coursework, but they managed with controlled assessments.

I don't agree that kids get too much homework though - I think it's essential to practice - it's why so much that is taught and sort of learnt is lost - because we don't practice it enough.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 20, 2014)

I appreciate that - it's just another thing that kids complain about feeling pressured by.


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## Balbi (Mar 20, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> yup. we had the normal ones after xmas, but for all year 10 and 11.  Then we had another set after half term.  Now they've decided it will be a regular thing every half term.



We do an assessment every half term, including a 'mock phonics assessment'


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## treefrog (Mar 21, 2014)

SLK, when the hell do you have time to trawl through all that research? Be careful, people might think you don't have enough work to do which always seems a dangerous move in school


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## chilango (Mar 21, 2014)

SLK said:


> No, but I think Art History is important.
> I totally agree on practising techniques. Not sure how much exploring is necessary. They're novices. Surely mastering stuff to become an expert is necessary before exploring (I think recent cognitive science such as that in Why don't students like school? by Daniel Willingham is very strong on the difference between novices and experts and not trying to get novices to ape experts).



Art history is a seperate subject to Art.


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## SLK (Mar 21, 2014)

chilango said:


> Art history is a seperate subject to Art.



Yes I know. However, GCSE Art, for example, includes: 
"The study of influences of political, cultural and economic forces on different art movements throughout history", stuff about exploring tradition and other stuff I don't know off the top of my head.

As for treefrog, well I attend a lot of stuff on Saturdays. I spend a lot of time on twitter, and I usually read non-fiction (about 50% of the time to do with education).


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## treefrog (Mar 21, 2014)

SLK said:


> As for treefrog, well I attend a lot of stuff on Saturdays. I spend a lot of time on twitter, and I usually read non-fiction (about 50% of the time to do with education).



I'm impressed. I find after a week at the chalkface and evenings spent on the political side I like to spend at least a couple of hours a week under the pretence I'm a well-rounded human being  

Which goes some way towards explaining why I've stayed the hell out of this thread for so long now I think about it. Sorry if you've answered already, what's your subject area?


----------



## chilango (Mar 21, 2014)

SLK said:


> Yes I know. However, GCSE Art, for example, includes:
> "The study of influences of political, cultural and economic forces on different art movements throughout history", stuff about exploring tradition and other stuff I don't know off the top of my head.
> .



I know. 

I also know what will get the kids the best results and into the Art Schools of their choice.


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## SLK (Mar 21, 2014)

treefrog said:


> I'm impressed. I find after a week at the chalkface and evenings spent on the political side I like to spend at least a couple of hours a week under the pretence I'm a well-rounded human being
> 
> Which goes some way towards explaining why I've stayed the hell out of this thread for so long now I think about it. Sorry if you've answered already, what's your subject area?



Maths, but I have a philosophy degree/ MA.


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## SLK (Mar 21, 2014)

chilango said:


> I know.
> I also know what will get the kids the best results and into the Art Schools of their choice.



Interesting use of "know" and "the best". If you're sure you know better than anyone else, you should share.


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## chilango (Mar 21, 2014)

SLK said:


> Interesting use of "know" and "the best". If you're sure you know better than anyone else, you should share.


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## sim667 (Mar 21, 2014)

SLK said:


> Yes I know. However, GCSE Art, for example, includes:
> "The study of influences of political, cultural and economic forces on different art movements throughout history", stuff about exploring tradition and other stuff I don't know off the top of my head.


 
That doesnt mean you teach them about the facts and figures of art historically though, which is what art history is. It means that you contextualise historical and contemporary practice and relate it to the practical work that that you teach them. Its more the philosiphical side of "reading" an art work and applying that to your own work.


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## Balbi (Mar 21, 2014)

Maths teachers, I thought they were cunts as a kid


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## SLK (Mar 21, 2014)

Another of my friends had this printed today: http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6413987 It's under a pseudonym, and was originally on her blog (same pseudonym, she's likely to 'come out' in the next year). 

It describes many of the reasons I hate lesson observations and is well worth a read.


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## SLK (Mar 21, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Maths teachers, I thought they were cunts as a kid



I am fairly sure the thoughts would have been reciprocated


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## SLK (Mar 21, 2014)

As for levels, it looks like Wilshaw's speech today (I welcome the reforms) and his response to the question at ASCL conference saying "it would be helpful if schools used levels until 2015 at least" mean that many schools working on assessment systems will stop due to it being implicit that OFSTED want to see them.


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## Balbi (Mar 21, 2014)

SLK said:


> Another of my friends had this printed today: http://www.tes.co.uk/article.aspx?storycode=6413987 It's under a pseudonym, and was originally on her blog (same pseudonym, she's likely to 'come out' in the next year).
> 
> It describes many of the reasons I hate lesson observations and is well worth a read.



I was going to write one about this, particularly the OFSTED burden. My two training days at the start of the school year, and another in January, were littered with 'OFSTED want' and 'OFSTED will be looking for...'...urgh.


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## Balbi (Mar 21, 2014)

Trapped between the OFSTED and the DfE


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## SLK (Mar 21, 2014)

Balbi said:


> I was going to write one about this, particularly the OFSTED burden. My two training days at the start of the school year, and another in January, were littered with 'OFSTED want' and 'OFSTED will be looking for...'...urgh.



All year round, in most schools this is the focus. Horrible. Tessa Matthews blog is well worth a read all the way through.


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## treefrog (Mar 21, 2014)

OFSTD, blergh. 

I've been ERO'd (NZ equivalent of OFSTED) twice since I arrived here. Once in a massive high school in a really poor, rough (for NZ) area, once in a posh, smaller school with helicopter parents. 

Each time we knew at the start of the year that it was coming. The senior management wallahs did all the heavy lifting, we weren't asked to do anything out of the ordinary. The first time an inspector wandered through my year 9 class for 15 minutes, ignored me completely and asked a group of sassy-as-fuck Samoan girls about if they listened when I gave feedback and if I ever wrote anything in their books. Second time they didn't even make it as far as my classroom (far end of the school aye  )

Zero stress, over in three days, each time the school got a glowing report and no more inspections for another 3 years. EROs are available online and all schools tend to have them on their websites but I remember coming back to the UK for a visit and being pretty horrified at the advert banner outside a school with quotes from an OFSTED on it 

Never, ever coming back. Ever. Though we now have charter schools (  ) so perhaps in five years ERO will be the magic wand to privatise and commercialise us all like it is in the motherland. 

I sincerely hope not.


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## Balbi (Mar 25, 2014)

Strike tomorrow.

I'm the only one again


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 25, 2014)

You're the only NUT member in your school? 
After a subs snafu, I've just had to hastily rejoin ATL. They are a bit rubbish when it comes to industrial action and support members aren't recognised by schools, but they seem the best of a bad bunch. I asked my colleague what Union and they're in some weird scabby union that doesn't strike! WTF!?!


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## Balbi (Mar 25, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> You're the only NUT member in your school?
> After a subs snafu, I've just had to hastily rejoin ATL. They are a bit rubbish when it comes to industrial action and support members aren't recognised by schools, but they seem the best of a bad bunch. I asked my colleague what Union and they're in some weird scabby union that doesn't strike! WTF!?!



Nope, they're just not coming out


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## DotCommunist (Mar 25, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> You're the only NUT member in your school?
> After a subs snafu, I've just had to hastily rejoin ATL. They are a bit rubbish when it comes to industrial action and support members aren't recognised by schools, but they seem the best of a bad bunch. I asked my colleague what Union and they're in some weird scabby union that doesn't strike! WTF!?!



Voice? nobs. Basically just workplace dispute insurance for individuals at the end of the day


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## Orang Utan (Mar 25, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Nope, they're just not coming out


Did they vote to strike and then chicken it?,
Why do they fucking join in the first place?
Do they do not understand the concept of collective action?  
 My school is half closed tomorrow but a surprising amount of people are coming in.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 25, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Voice? nobs. Basically just workplace dispute insurance for individuals at the end of the day


Yeah, them. Bunch of nanas. A Union for individuals!


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## chilango (Mar 25, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Strike tomorrow.
> 
> I'm the only one again



I'm the only NUT member in our place (afaik) but there's no strike in our sector anyway.


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## Delroy Booth (Mar 25, 2014)

Gove's played a blinder splitting these teaching unions. The NASUWT should hang their heads in shame.


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## Balbi (Mar 25, 2014)

Delroy Booth said:


> Gove's played a blinder splitting these teaching unions. The NASUWT should hang their heads in shame.



Unions have been split for fucking ages. NASUWT and ATL have always been scab cunts


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## Delroy Booth (Mar 25, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Unions have been split for fucking ages. NASUWT and ATL have always been scab cunts



true enough but you'd hope at a time like this they'd see they have a common interest and work together, this shit is utterly self-defeating from their own point of view.


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## sim667 (Mar 25, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> You're the only NUT member in your school?
> After a subs snafu, I've just had to hastily rejoin ATL. They are a bit rubbish when it comes to industrial action and support members aren't recognised by schools, but they seem the best of a bad bunch. I asked my colleague what Union and *they're in some weird scabby union that doesn't strike!* WTF!?!


 
My union does bollock all striking here. They agree to have a certain amount of union members on strike in advance with the management. Any other members of the the same union who aren't in the agreed number end up going through disciplinary.


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## SLK (Mar 28, 2014)

On the Michael Gove file - professing love of Tinie Tempah, Public Enemy, and taking a selfie...: 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/schoolreport/26774451
http://www.bbc.co.uk/schoolreport/26777283


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## Balbi (Mar 29, 2014)

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...set-to-be-britains-mostexpensive-9222364.html



> The Education Secretary, Michael Gove, has approved a plan to spend £45m on a free school, making it almost certainly the most expensive in the country even though it has just 500 students, _The Independent_ has learnt.
> 
> *The cost of setting up the Harris Westminster Sixth Form for high-achieving students is six times the average cost of establishing a free school and equates to around £90,000 per pupil.*
> 
> ...


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## Orang Utan (Mar 29, 2014)

Ha! That's like an exaggeration of the gifted and talented shit that kids do in schools


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## spanglechick (Mar 29, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Ha! That's like an exaggeration of the gifted and talented shit that kids do in schools



i think it's mre akin to a grammar school sixth form college-come-oxbridge-hothouse.

of course it will make the task for teachers of other harris sixth forms a fucktonne harder, because all the most able will be sent to westminster. :madface:


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## SLK (Mar 29, 2014)

There is no justification whatsoever for that £45m. None. Not when he made such a big deal out of saving BSF money.


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## stavros (Mar 31, 2014)

Balbi said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...set-to-be-britains-mostexpensive-9222364.html
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 51164



No doubt it'll be a prepare-a-tory school.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 2, 2014)

I know it's childish but I just drew a Hitler tache on a poster of Gove. I thoroughly recommend it. It is immensely gratifying and you can blame it on the kids.


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## stavros (Apr 2, 2014)

Where is said poster displayed?


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## Orang Utan (Apr 2, 2014)

stavros said:


> Where is said poster displayed?


Staffroom


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## Gingerman (Apr 2, 2014)

http://www.crawleynews.co.uk/Crawle...London-Boris/story-20894068-detail/story.html


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## stavros (Apr 2, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Staffroom



I've yet to meet a teacher with a good thing to say about Gove, so hopefully it'll be popular with your colleagues.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 2, 2014)

stavros said:


> I've yet to meet a teacher with a good thing to say about Gove, so hopefully it'll be popular with your colleagues.


Someone's already stuck a Xmas tree bauble on his forehead


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## SLK (Apr 3, 2014)

stavros said:


> I've yet to meet a teacher with a good thing to say about Gove, so hopefully it'll be popular with your colleagues.



Teachers who have some good things to say about Gove (at least 3 of these are Labour Party members):

http://johndavidblake.org/2013/05/16/daddy-what-did-you-do-in-the-mr-men-war/ 
http://teachingbattleground.wordpre...el-goves-efforts-to-clever-up-the-curriculum/
http://dailygenius.wordpress.com/2013/01/20/the-case-for-the-defence/ 
http://goodbyemisterhunter.wordpres...e-a-tory-to-be-a-traditionalist-in-education/
http://daviderogers.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/are-teachers-like-priests-is-it-time-to.html 
http://behaviourguru.blogspot.co.uk/2013/01/everybody-be-cool-why-ebc-is-nothing-to.html


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## spanglechick (Apr 3, 2014)

labour party = red tories.


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## stavros (Apr 3, 2014)

Free schools <= academies


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## spanglechick (Apr 4, 2014)

This is rather wonderful.


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## eatmorecheese (Apr 4, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> This is rather wonderful.




Wonderful


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## existentialist (Apr 4, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> This is rather wonderful.



Widely shared.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 4, 2014)

That's great. Good on her. If she had worked in my school, my head would have made Ms Green dye her hair and take out that ring.


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## spanglechick (Apr 4, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> That's great. Good on her. If she had worked in my school, my head would have made Ms Green dye her hair and take out that ring.


heh - i get away with my vertical strip, and we're very corporate (she would't be allowed the rest of her outfit).  The nose ring though...  must be a very trendy school.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 4, 2014)

I'm supposed to wear a tie and jacket even if it's hot.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 4, 2014)

nice dig at osbournes infamous coke-bowl photo in that.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 4, 2014)

i like the bit about how redrafting isn't cheating:it's editing - and even war and peace would  be a very different novel if it hadn't had at least one quick going over.


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## existentialist (Apr 4, 2014)

I know this isn't specifically about Michael Gove, but this is a thread that I know harbours a serious contingent of teaching staff...

I'd like to invite the teachers on here to share a moment of solidarity with my colleagues in the Pupil Referral Unit, who found out yesterday that the county council is closing the unit and making them all redundant from September.

This is a group of staff who have done a thankless task, looking after the kids the schools weren't able - or were unwilling - to "hold", and working with an incredibly challenging client group with warmth, compassion, and a level of care way beyond the call of duty. This was my first gig as a schools counsellor, and I came in after another counsellor had comprehensively botched the whole thing: despite that, and their understandable suspicions about another do-gooding counsellor type coming in and telling them how to do their jobs, they gave me the benefit of the doubt, and we began to work collaboratively and really productively together. They "got" that I could be part of what they were doing, and that they could also be part of what I was doing. They were prepared to learn from what I could show them, and I learned a lot from them: it has to be one of the most mutually valuing and collaborative experiences I have enjoyed in my entire 30+ years' working life.

And now, not only are they thrust into a situation where their future prospects - many of them are in their late 40s or older and highly unlikely to find a relevant post anywhere in the area - are deeply uncertain, but they have to stand by as their students, troubled, damaged, often violent, and hugely challenging, are thrown back into the maelstrom of mainstream education. They know, as do I, that for all their aggression and bravado, most of those kids are unsure of themselves, self-doubting, and very, very used to failure - something they know they are doomed to back in the mainstream, in classes where the staff simply don't have the time to dedicate to the kind of close one-to-one attention they will need.

So, yet another service, until now so valuable in bringing out the best in a group of kids that the system had written off - they even opened a PRU sixth form, for heavens' sake! - has been sacrificed on the altar of short-term cost savings and a one-size-fits-all education system that actually doesn't fit anybody.

Those teachers' dedication and commitment has been, blatantly, disrespectfully, and coldly, thrown back into their faces. It is disgusting.

And spare a thought, too, for the teachers in the schools to which those kids will be sent. Their job, challenging enough as it is, just got a whole lot more difficult.

So perhaps this isn't all that off-topic for the thread, after all - straitjacket education policies, and teachers being expected to do the impossible. Michael Gove, you clearly have your admirers. Well done.


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## spanglechick (Apr 4, 2014)

oh FFS!  that's terrible.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 4, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> oh FFS!  that's terrible.


And it is not the half of it. I have to be careful what I say, but my employer hired a bully in June last year as head of the service - a bully whom it took 8 years to get rid of from her last post, and whose colleagues celebrated her departure with a champagne party.

She has bullied the behavioural support service to within an inch of its life, and she is in the process of eviscerating the counselling service. And it is not what she is doing that is so bad, but the way it is being done - with intransigence, lies (yes, lies), divide-and-rule policies, bullying, and a cold and completely unvaluing and uncaring attitude towards the skilled and dedicated professionals in her department.

Indeed, one of the reasons that I am breaking the habit of a lifetime by not resigning by dancing on her desk singing the "fuck you" song is because I actually want to do her as much professional harm as I can, and I can only do that by hanging on as long as I can. I think they already have the knives out for me - I am sure they know who the mouthpiece of our service is, and they will be watching me like a hawk for anything they can bust me on. I'm watching them like a hawk, too, though, and I don't plan on going without at least a bit of a fight. No compromise agreements for me, thanks all the same 

I don't have kids of my own, and I never thought I would. But I suddenly find myself with a "family" of a hundred or two of the little sods , and I love them dearly. And I hate what is being done to them. And what is being done to the people who, like me, feel a sense of personal and professional duty to them.


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## savoloysam (Apr 4, 2014)

Top rappin


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## existentialist (Apr 4, 2014)

savoloysam said:


> Top rappin


Har, is that like "cool story bro?"


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## savoloysam (Apr 4, 2014)

existentialist said:


> Har, is that like "cool story bro?"



Just needs some beats and it's a hit!


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## existentialist (Apr 4, 2014)

savoloysam said:


> Just needs some beats and it's a hit!


Yeah, I can see what you mean. I think it works pretty well beatsless, though - she doesn't hammer the rap/poem into a rhythm, and I like that.


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## Orang Utan (Apr 4, 2014)

Great posts existentialist - there's no doubting your love and your dedication. Glad you're hanging on. We need people like you not the bullies and drones


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## StoneRoad (Apr 4, 2014)

existentialist - that's insane. 
Closing the PRU is going to waste more money than it would save. 
Those kids and mainstream schools don't mix, already proven by them being in the PRU. So putting them back before they are ready would just not work - probably doing more harm overall.


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## gaijingirl (Apr 4, 2014)

existentialist - I liked your post for the passion.  I see this sort of thing happening a lot and thank goodness for people like you.  Such a sad post - so terrible for your colleagues.


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## Dr Jon (Apr 4, 2014)

existentialist said:


> And it is not the half of it. I have to be careful what I say, but my employer hired a bully in June last year as head of the service - a bully whom it took 8 years to get rid of from her last post, and whose colleagues celebrated her departure with a champagne party.
> 
> She has bullied the behavioural support service to within an inch of its life, and she is in the process of eviscerating the counselling service.


Sounds like an ideal candidate for a tab of acid and a handful of laxatives in her coffee?


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## existentialist (Apr 4, 2014)

Dr Jon said:


> Sounds like an ideal candidate for a tab of acid and a handful of laxatives in her coffee?


Don't tempt me...


----------



## existentialist (Apr 4, 2014)

StoneRoad said:


> existentialist - that's insane.
> Closing the PRU is going to waste more money than it would save.
> Those kids and mainstream schools don't mix, already proven by them being in the PRU. So putting them back before they are ready would just not work - probably doing more harm overall.


They went to the heads a week or two ago, with handfuls of risk assessments, and said "would you have these pupils back?". To a man/woman, they said "no".

Those kids are going to go back into mainstream education with a sword of Damocles hanging over them - they will be presumed to be exclusion-ready, and the slightest infraction will, I am sure, have them off school premises so fast their feet won't touch the ground. Partly, perhaps, because the heads and senior management will feel alienated by the fact that their wishes, like ours, and those of the PRU's staff, remain completely unheard, and won't necessarily be ready to bend over backwards to accommodate the behaviour of young people they'd already said weren't safe to be in their schools.

Some of those PRU kids were there because of really quite dangerous/violent acts, not just refusing to do their homework.

I think it's high time we got the Children's Commissioner involved.


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## StoneRoad (Apr 4, 2014)

existentialist said:


> They went to the heads a week or two ago, with handfuls of risk assessments, and said "would you have these pupils back?". To a man/woman, they said "no".
> 
> Those kids are going to go back into mainstream education with a sword of Damocles hanging over them - they will be presumed to be exclusion-ready, and the slightest infraction will, I am sure, have them off school premises so fast their feet won't touch the ground. Partly, perhaps, because the heads and senior management will feel alienated by the fact that their wishes, like ours, and those of the PRU's staff, remain completely unheard, and won't necessarily be ready to bend over backwards to accommodate the behaviour of young people they'd already said weren't safe to be in their schools.
> 
> ...



I agree with you - and it is not just the kids from the PRU that will be affected - the other kids (and their education) may -  no, actually I think that they will - be affected by their presence, and all that follows on from that.


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## existentialist (Apr 4, 2014)

StoneRoad said:


> I agree with you - and it is not just the kids from the PRU that will be affected - the other kids (and their education) may -  no, actually I think that they will - be affected by their presence, and all that follows on from that.


Yes, most definitely. The leverage effect of one disruptive kid is phenomenal, and that's a "normal" disruptive kid. A lot of those young people in the PRU are from severely dysfunctional families, with parental mental health and drug/alcohol abuse, neglect, emotional/sexual abuse, their own mental health problems, being young carers, fostering, etc all being factors on top of any other stuff like special needs, learning disabilities. It is sheer lunacy to do what they're doing - but that's what this cow is doing: she has a Plan, and she is pushing it through regardless, and at any cost.

And the cost will be huge, in all kinds of areas.


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 4, 2014)

(((existentialist )))

i'm out of touch with these things, but wtf is supposed to happen with these kids if / when they get turfed out of mainstream school (presumably again, since they have been at a PRU)?

surely LEAs have some obligations in this respect?


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## existentialist (Apr 4, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> (((existentialist )))
> 
> i'm out of touch with these things, but wtf is supposed to happen with these kids if / when they get turfed out of mainstream school (presumably again, since they have been at a PRU)?
> 
> surely LEAs have some obligations in this respect?


I'm not sure of the finer details, and I would love to hear from people who know. As far as I know, the school is responsible for providing full-time education after the sixth day of the exclusion. How on earth that is usually provided, I have no idea - I know that, where pupils were excluded from the PRU, arrangements were made for "home tutors" to see them in a "neutral" venue such as a youth centre, but it certainly wasn't full-time. With the PRU going to disappear, I don't know whether that means the kids would get that, but that'd seem mad, as it's 1:1 and presumably far more expensive than the PRU.


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 4, 2014)

existentialist said:


> I'm not sure of the finer details, and I would love to hear from people who know. As far as I know, the school is responsible for providing full-time education after the sixth day of the exclusion. How on earth that is usually provided, I have no idea - I know that, where pupils were excluded from the PRU, arrangements were made for "home tutors" to see them in a "neutral" venue such as a youth centre, but it certainly wasn't full-time. With the PRU going to disappear, I don't know whether that means the kids would get that, but that'd seem mad, as it's 1:1 and presumably far more expensive than the PRU.



I thought that in the event of a permanent exclusion, the pupil in question becomes the responsibility of the LEA, not the school.

And if government policy continues as it seems to be, and LEAs don't actually have any schools left, not quite sure how the heck they will do that without some sort of specialist service...


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## StoneRoad (Apr 5, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> (((existentialist )))
> 
> i'm out of touch with these things, but wtf is supposed to happen with these kids if / when they get turfed out of mainstream school (presumably again, since they have been at a PRU)?
> 
> surely LEAs have some obligations in this respect?



Tutoring under "Education other than at school" schemes - which tba are really intended for more medically based situations rather than the kids who end up in PRUs. Most schools have neither the specialist staff nor space to have their own / internal PRU - and to do so would surely be duplicating what ought to the LEA provision.


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## chilango (Apr 5, 2014)

I work (broadly speaking) in these  fields at the moment. Many kids are falling through the gaps. Those that aren't may end up being tutored at home (or not), enrolled on some sort of distance learning program, or similar. 

in some cases provision is being de facto outsourced to charities and the voluntary sector.


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## Awesome Wells (Apr 5, 2014)

According to someone I know who buys laptops like they are going out of fashion, kids have to have them/netbooks/ipads or whatever for school. That can't be right? It's a far cry from exercise books and pens an jumpers for goalposts of ocurse.


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## eatmorecheese (Apr 5, 2014)

existentialist this is horrific. It makes me wonder about some of the professional "values" these decision makers hold. Reminds me of my brother working in an academy behavioural support team as a mentor and being told by the Principal, "If you want to be a social worker, go and become one. This is a school".  

Because of local authority cuts, I find myself in a position where I am acting as an adviser to schools on support planning, CAFs, accessing family support and the rest of it. The idea is that my local authority wants schools to take on _more_ of these responsibilities as council provision has been cut back markedly. Naturally, there is much resistance to this from many schools; others seem not to give a shit. A Deputy Head told me last week that they are allowing problematic pupils/families to fester in the hope that they will eventually meet social care thresholds, rather than planning any form of early intervention (and persuading the parents of children with persistent non-attendance to sign undertakings that they will home school their children, even when they have no capacity to do so, because it reduces the exclusion rate).

Frustrating for me, because my previous role was intensive casework. Now I have to just "advise" SENCo's, EWO's and the like on the steps they should take. The needs, wishes and goals of the school may differ from the needs, wishes and goals of the young person or family might identify.

Sending solidarity to you and your colleagues. You are right. Say it and keep saying it. Too many wankers are playing professional politics with vulnerable children and families' lives.


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## existentialist (Apr 5, 2014)

The head of service is someone who got to where she is by being a primary school teacher, then diving off into academia, coming out the other end with a PhD and a reputation.

I don't like to come across as anti-academic, because I have leanings that way myself, hem hem hem, but I am somewhat dubious about paper tigers who seem to have spent an awful lot of their careers talking the talk, but seemed to get out of the walking the walk bit a little too sharpish.

The party in question has NEVER consulted with her practitioners or specialists on what they in particular do, or how they do it: when she wants to know something, she either just decides she knows it, or hires in an academic to tell her what is going on. So, in a meeting with senior school management a week or two ago, a counsellor whose name I don't know was drafted in to talk about schools counselling, as opposed to any of the eleven people she's got on her payroll who could have told her infinitely more about the day to day practicalities of what goes on in the schools she's responsible for.

I've seen this kind of thing before: we have a wrecker on our case. She's either out for grandeur and glory, and is going about it in a spectactularly misguided way, but will almost certainly fuck off out of it before the shrapnel hits the ground, or she's been hired in to destroy a system and a service to further someone's agenda. I have no idea which, though the local authority's petulance at the interventions of the Welsh Government's Ministerial Action Team, following the authority's abject failure to meet minimum standards on child protection and safeguarding rather leave the range of possibilities wide open - this could be a misguided attempt at "we'll show YOU" aimed at WG, or some kind of cock-eyed attempt to make things better.

What it's actually achieving is a level of disaffection the like of which I have not seen since I danced the "fuck off" dance on the desk of my born-again-Christian no-social-skills IT manager back in 1994, and there were only THREE of us there. This character is succeeding in royally pissing off an entire counselling team, an entire PRU teaching team, the entire behavioural support teaching team, most - if not all - of the secondary heads and senior management in schools, and heaven knows who else. All in the space of six months.

In some ways, she has my admiration: that takes some serious ability to manage to become so unpopular with so many people quite so quickly.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Apr 5, 2014)

existentialist said:


> The head of service is someone who got to where she is by being a primary school teacher, then diving off into academia, coming out the other end with a PhD and a reputation.
> 
> I don't like to come across as anti-academic, because I have leanings that way myself, hem hem hem, but I am somewhat dubious about *paper tigers who seem to have spent an awful lot of their careers talking the talk, but seemed to get out of the walking the walk bit a little too sharpish*.



Ah yes, Naked Teflon Bullshit Emperor syndrome. There's a lot of this type around. Funny how defensive they get when you ask them about their professional background, time spent at the coalface, etc.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 5, 2014)

eatmorecheese said:


> Ah yes, Naked Teflon Bullshit Emperor syndrome. There's a lot of this type around. Funny how defensive they get when you ask them about their professional background, time spent at the coalface, etc.


Chance would be a fine thing. This individual is virtually impossible to get to see or speak to. Another symptom of NTBE syndrome, in my experience! It's "write-only" management. And she is bloody good at it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 5, 2014)

eatmorecheese said:


> existentialist this is horrific. It makes me wonder about some of the professional "values" these decision makers hold.



It's horrific, I agree.
It's also a logical conclusion to managerialist practice during "austerity", because "yer actual managerialist" *will not* look at funding for a specific part of the educational set-up in a holistic manner - a PRU as a (sadly) necessary part of the LEA's armoury of pupil-education methods - they'll look at it purely as a cost that can be eradicated.  What is worse is that existentialist's cow-cunt of a boss will probably garner kudos from her peers for the financial saving, with no attention at all paid to the wide and varied social costs of the action.
Expecting managerialists to have values beyond their narrow conception of management, is like expecting pebbles to have an inate faculty for algebra, I'm afraid.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 5, 2014)

"Managerialists" - I like it. It's definitely a kind of -ism.

The irony here is that I'm quite a good manager. But I don't have it in me to be a managerialist - I'm too interested in the end product.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 5, 2014)

existentialist said:


> "Managerialists" - I like it. It's definitely a kind of -ism.
> 
> The irony here is that I'm quite a good manager. But I don't have it in me to be a managerialist - I'm too interested in the end product.



Managerialism, among other things, is (VERY loosely) the practice of management through "box-ticking" exercises, "performance indicators" and "metrics", where such measures bear only a passing relation to the actual functioning of whatever/whoever is being assessed, and without having much clue or care about the inputs into and outputs from such measures, except insofar as they can be manipulated to fulfill management policy.
I call it "cuntology" as a kind of short-hand.


----------



## chilango (Apr 5, 2014)

Also worth noting that the devolution of power and money to individual schools / heads / academy chains (and away from LEAs) will further undermine the education provision for those kids outside and/or away from these schools.


----------



## Brechin Sprout (Apr 5, 2014)

chilango said:


> Also worth noting that the devolution of power and money to individual schools / heads / academy chains (and away from LEAs) will further undermine the education provision for those kids outside and/or away from these schools.


What's going on is NOT the devolution of power. It is the complete opposite. Like the "local management of schools" by a previous Tory government it is designed to take power from the local authorities and give it to the Secretary of State. Nobody should be fooled by the " freedom" rhetoric that goes with it.


----------



## chilango (Apr 5, 2014)

Brechin Sprout said:


> What's going on is NOT the devolution of power. It is the complete opposite. Like the "local management of schools" by a previous Tory government it is designed to take power from the local authorities and give it to the Secretary of State. Nobody should be fooled by the " freedom" rhetoric that goes with it.



its giving plenty of freedom to crackpot egomaniacs who fancy running their own schools


----------



## existentialist (Apr 5, 2014)

chilango said:


> Also worth noting that the devolution of power and money to individual schools / heads / academy chains (and away from LEAs) will further undermine the education provision for those kids outside and/or away from these schools.


True, though I think we are currently in a worst of both worlds scenario. My perception is that the LA in my case is resentful of the funding moving directly to schools, and that a possible underlying motive for what is going on IS a wrecking effort - "we won't provide it if you won't pay for it" - despite the fact that the funding settlements on schools in this area are resulting in hefty shortfalls and significant staff reductions.

And they seem blithely unconcerned about the legal implications - I cannot see how the LA is going to be able to square its responsibilities under the law with closing out-of-school provision for excluded kids: there have been some experiments with third sector provision for some of the kids, but in most cases the provider has ended up returning them to the PRU because the situation became unmanageable. Similarly, they started moving Key Stage 4 PRU kids into youth centres, but that has only worked because PRU staff went with them - when their contracts are terminated, they won't be there, and the youth service has already been gutted over the last few years.

Similarly with school counselling: LAs are legally obliged under WG rules to provide schools counselling. The standard and level of provision is not well specified, and it may be (har) that they are aiming towards some kind of baseline provision. But, with the way they are treating their current counselling practitioners, the best they can hope for is a dwindling bunch of miserable, disaffected therapists doing a horrible job of triaging only the worst cases and treating them, because they can't get any other jobs. Although it is not an aspect I share particularly with my team - for obvious reasons - the dwindling bunch will consist mostly of therapists who, for one reason or another, have not been able to find work elsewhere. While that doesn't mean that they are necessarily the least able, the tendency will be for the high fliers, or those with other marketable skills (*cough*), or the motivation to do something else, to depart first. So not only will the remainder be quite likely disaffected AND having to see the most difficult clients, but they may well be the ones most at risk of working beyond their competence. It's not a pretty picture - for the kids, for the schools, or for the therapists themselves.

I suspect that the service is probably being set up to fail, so that it can be scrapped and replaced with some kind of third sector provision, the intention being to get something cheaper - almost certainly, given that they couldn't get qualified, trained therapists much cheaper than they have right now, trainees and volunteers. I leave the likely implications of that on the quality of the service as an exercise for the reader.


----------



## gaijingirl (Apr 5, 2014)

existentialist said:


> I've seen this kind of thing before: we have a wrecker on our case. She's either out for grandeur and glory, and is going about it in a spectactularly misguided way, but will almost certainly fuck off out of it before the shrapnel hits the ground,



In my school we have had a series of people like this over a number of years - who my colleague described so aptly - were "parachuted in ... then airlifted out again".  

Then they turned us into an academy...


----------



## Dr Jon (Apr 5, 2014)

Balbi said:


> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/e...set-to-be-britains-mostexpensive-9222364.html
> 
> 
> 
> View attachment 51164


Just spotted:
Capital’s sixth-form colleges close ranks against free school


> Every one of London’s sixth-form principals has signed a letter urging Michael Gove to rethink plans to spend £45 million on a new free school
> ...
> The 12 principals expressed their ‘dismay and frustration’ over the decision to open the new selective school for A-level students: “It does not make educational or economic sense to divert scarce resources away from the 20,000 16 to 18 year-olds currently studying at a sixth-form college in London to benefit 500 people at a highly selective institution in a very expensive part of the city,” they wrote. “We urge the Secretary of State to rethink his decision to spend £45 million on this new institution and ask that he redirect the investment to address the growing crisis in sixth-form college funding.”


Gove, with his cabinet colleagues, are leading waves of destruction, despair and division through the whole of society.

The only "maths" skills this cunt can demonstrate are divide and rule.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 5, 2014)

chilango said:


> Also worth noting that the devolution of power and money to individual schools / heads / academy chains (and away from LEAs) will further undermine the education provision for those kids outside and/or away from these schools.



Pseudo-devolution that's effectively centralisation under the Ministry, allowing top-down _diktat_ to be embedded where LEAs might occasionally have enough scruples to avoid enacting _diktat_ due to it being unworkable.
Of course, given that the _diktat_ will be made primarily to bodies that are already "creatures" of the Ministry, with other educational establishments being carried along in the wake, to sink or swim, neither the Ministry or the schools that are a part of the Ministry's plans will be bothered by this, and those that *are* affected can go hang for all the Ministry cares.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 7, 2014)

This is pretty good.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 7, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> This is pretty good.



already posted that on the last page, but yes, it is.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 7, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> already posted that on the last page, but yes, it is.



I should probably actually read threads rather than just dip in and out of them


----------



## BoxRoom (Apr 7, 2014)

HOT SEX!!

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...g-business-people-come-to-london-9242144.html



> Providing his expert analysis on why young businessmen and woman come to London, the Education Secretary said that it is "not so much the high-tech opportunities" that provide the capital’s big attraction, but rather: "[The] great opportunities to be successful, enjoy a great culture, have a good time and loads of hot sex".


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 7, 2014)

BoxRoom said:


> HOT SEX!!
> 
> http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...g-business-people-come-to-london-9242144.html





I am really not sure I event want to contemplate Michael Gove and "hot sex" in the same sentence...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 7, 2014)

Puddy_Tat said:


> I am really not sure I event want to contemplate Michael Gove and "hot sex" in the same sentence...


----------



## existentialist (Apr 8, 2014)

I wonder what Gove's concept of hot sex entails? Alone with a skin mag in a sauna, perhaps?


----------



## BoxRoom (Apr 8, 2014)

Chicken pasty from Greggs?


----------



## campanula (Apr 8, 2014)

something with an old sock


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 8, 2014)

leaving the lights on


----------



## teqniq (May 11, 2014)

Heh, chickens coming home to roost indeed

Michael Gove's 'lunatic' £400m raid to rescue his free schools vision



> The coalition government has descended into open war on education as senior Liberal Democrats said Michael Gove had raided £400m from a fund that guarantees school places for pupils in order to plug a massive financial "black hole" in his free schools programme.
> 
> In a dramatic escalation of tensions, the Lib Dems confirmed highly damaging leaked information from a senior government source, who said that Gove had secretly taken the money from the Basic Need fund for local authorities last December, in the face of stiff opposition from the Lib Dem schools minister David Laws....


----------



## brogdale (May 11, 2014)

teqniq said:


> Heh, chickens coming home to roost indeed
> 
> Michael Gove's 'lunatic' £400m raid to rescue his free schools vision


Obviously, all of a piece with the laughable LD 'policy' of faux disengagement with the nasty impacts of coalition decisions. Also quite possible that Clegg has sent his man into do damage to Gove's leadership campaign.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2014)

Interestingly the beeb has this as 'funds re-directed' which is subtly different from saying 'out and out jacked by a pob faced cunt'


----------



## teqniq (May 11, 2014)

brogdale said:


> Obviously, all of a piece with the laughable LD 'policy' of faux disengagement with the nasty impacts of coalition decisions. Also quite possible that Clegg has sent his man into do damage to Gove's leadership campaign.



Quite possibly. But 400 million? If this wasn't the U.K. in 2014 where corruption and dodgy deals have become so commonplace and scum like G4s can quietly be rehabilitated this would perhaps be resignation time.


----------



## trashpony (May 11, 2014)

I was delighted to hear him being referred to as a zealot on radio 4 this morning


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2014)

trashpony said:


> I was delighted to hear him being referred to as a zealot on radio 4 this morning



he doesn't even deserve to share a name with roman occupation era judean partisans


----------



## Dr Jon (May 11, 2014)

trashpony said:


> I was delighted to hear him being referred to as a zealot on radio 4 this morning


"Twat" would've been more accurate with fewer syllables.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 11, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Interestingly the beeb has this as 'funds re-directed' which is subtly different from saying 'out and out jacked by a pob faced cunt'



You would think that the education secretary is within his rights to spend his department's budget however he sees fit.

Of course it's completely insane that one person should have so much clout, particularly when that one person is an abject cretin, but that's how we run things in this country.


----------



## brogdale (May 11, 2014)

teqniq said:


> Quite possibly. But 400 million? If this wasn't the U.K. in 2014 where corruption and dodgy deals have become so commonplace and scum like G4s can quietly be rehabilitated this would perhaps be resignation time.


 Dream on.
This little spectacle has been engineered to produce one thing and one thing only. The opening words of the BBC report demonstrate the superficial 'success' of this media manipulation....



> *A row has broken out in the coalition...*


----------



## teqniq (May 11, 2014)

brogdale said:


> Dream on.


That is precisely what I am not doing.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 11, 2014)

trashpony said:


> I was delighted to hear him being referred to as a zealot on radio 4 this morning



I won't be satisfied until I hear James Naughtie refer to Gove as a "pob-faced cunt", frankly.


----------



## Betsy (May 12, 2014)

Michael Gove is answering an urgent question in The Commons.

_Tristram Hunt has asked education secretary to explain diversion of funds away from areas of high and severe need_

http://www.theguardian.com/education/2014/may/12/free-schools-row-michael-gove-question-commons


----------



## CNT36 (May 13, 2014)

From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27377973



> But Education Secretary Michael Gove said his rival had "more contorted positions on free schools than some Indian sex manuals I could name".



Enough to make me piss vomit.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 13, 2014)

Some? I can only think of one


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 13, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Some? I can only think of one



Gove probably has a broad collection of sex manuals, Indian or otherwise, the Pob-faced cunt.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 13, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Some? I can only think of one




maybe he has the kama sutra in hardback, paperback, two different translations, and the pop-up version


----------



## Nylock (May 14, 2014)

With foreword written by him ofc..


----------



## Awesome Wells (May 14, 2014)

CNT36 said:


> From http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-27377973
> 
> 
> 
> Enough to make me piss vomit.


What a horrible comment from Gove


----------



## ddraig (May 21, 2014)




----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2014)

that could also double as a Toby pincushion


----------



## Dr Jon (May 21, 2014)

ddraig said:


>








Brilliant


----------



## Awesome Wells (May 21, 2014)

ddraig said:


>



Fuck! It's Minecraft meets Gove!


----------



## brogdale (May 22, 2014)

Sarah Vine whinging about having such a repugnant husband....



> Michael Gove's children have dealt with so much hatred directed towards their father in the playground that their mother considered moving them to Italy, it has been reported.
> 
> The education secretary's wife, *Sarah Vine, a columnist, said her son William, nine, and daughter Beatrice, 11, now realise how much their father is hated* for his position in government because other children tell them in the playground.




...and, hands up, who's been sending emails? Come on...you're only wasting your own time...I was going to be here marking anyway...



> Vine also revealed she had received emails from "*vicious and aggressive socialists*" opposed to her husband's radical reforms.


----------



## Balbi (May 25, 2014)

Gove's ditched Of Mice & Men, The Crucible and To Kill A Mockingbird from the curriculum in favour of 19th Century British books.

I wrote this. I'm angry.

http://shinbonestar.org/2014/05/25/mr-wormwood-michael-gove/


----------



## tommers (May 25, 2014)

"vicious and aggressive socialists"


----------



## Rebelda (May 25, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Gove's ditched Of Mice & Men, The Crucible and To Kill A Mockingbird from the curriculum in favour of 19th Century British books.
> 
> I wrote this. I'm angry.
> 
> http://shinbonestar.org/2014/05/25/mr-wormwood-michael-gove/


I have been raging about this on Facebook all day  May I share your blog post?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (May 25, 2014)

Fucking prick's banned Arthur Miller too, the only playwright I ever really got on with, the cunt.


----------



## eatmorecheese (May 25, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Gove's ditched Of Mice & Men, The Crucible and To Kill A Mockingbird from the curriculum in favour of 19th Century British books.
> 
> I wrote this. I'm angry.
> 
> http://shinbonestar.org/2014/05/25/mr-wormwood-michael-gove/



Perfect, hope you don't mind me sharing it?


----------



## Balbi (May 25, 2014)

Not a problem, share away. I'm a bit worried I'll qualify for the commentariat thread soon


----------



## Betsy (May 26, 2014)

Balbi said:


> http://shinbonestar.org/2014/05/25/mr-wormwood-michael-gove/


_"This is not as a result of considered research, this is entirely based on the personal opinion of the Secretary of State for Education"
_
And as such should be challenged!.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 26, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Gove's ditched Of Mice & Men, The Crucible and To Kill A Mockingbird from the curriculum in favour of 19th Century British books.
> 
> I wrote this. I'm angry.
> 
> http://shinbonestar.org/2014/05/25/mr-wormwood-michael-gove/



Although your argument would be stronger if you hadn't adduced the meretricious Dahl.


----------



## Awesome Wells (May 26, 2014)

What are the books he's using as replacements?


----------



## eatmorecheese (May 26, 2014)

Henty and Buchan?


----------



## _angel_ (May 26, 2014)

Are there any other subjects he's considering "changing", like taking algebra out of maths?


----------



## spanglechick (May 26, 2014)

To be clear, he hasn't named any books or writers. 


He's changed the categories.  There must now be a pre 20th century novel from anywhere, but the 20th century writing must be British.  

So, that means exam boards have had to cut these books, but Gove himself gets to keep his hands clean.


----------



## Balbi (May 26, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> To be clear, he hasn't named any books or writers.
> 
> 
> He's changed the categories.  There must now be a pre 20th century novel from anywhere, but the 20th century writing must be British.
> ...



And no translations - so, as someone pointed out, no Bible


----------



## Balbi (May 26, 2014)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Although your argument would be stronger if you hadn't adduced the meretricious Dahl.



That's the little sting that's made it go viral 

*checks privilege*


----------



## Cid (May 26, 2014)

Balbi or spanglechick do you know which books are included?


----------



## Balbi (May 26, 2014)

Exam boards will set the texts, but they're restrained to Brit Lit for 20th Century.

It's typical Gove, he provides guidance and advice and waits for external agencies, schools and teachers to follow it because not following his guidance may mean poor results, which means OFSTED and eventually academies etc.


----------



## Cid (May 26, 2014)

Yeah, I realised but various media outlets are basing it on OCR's choices aren't they? had a swift google, but couldn't find the source.


----------



## Balbi (May 26, 2014)

Page 4

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa..._data/file/254498/GCSE_English_literature.pdf



> Students should study a range of high quality, intellectually challenging, and substantial
> whole texts in detail. These must include:
> 
>  at least one play by Shakespeare
> ...



Guidance will be stuck to, as exam boards don't want to hack off Gove.


----------



## Cid (May 26, 2014)

Yeah, I read that too... 

I was more wondering how far the 19th century texts strayed from this sceptered isle, and how any texts beyond the compulsory are included. I also note that English literature and language are separate and that it's the language GCSE that's compulsory. iirc I didn't take English language, just lit (seem to remember there was a language option though).


----------



## _angel_ (May 26, 2014)

Cid said:


> Yeah, I read that too...
> 
> I was more wondering how far the 19th century texts strayed from this sceptered isle, and how any texts beyond the compulsory are included. I also note that English literature and language are separate and that it's the language GCSE that's compulsory. iirc I didn't take English language, just lit (seem to remember there was a language option though).


I did both in 1989. Fairly sure language was as "compulsory" as they could make it at the time (ie you could still leave school without finishing fifth form, in theory).


----------



## spanglechick (May 26, 2014)

yeah, lit has been the optional one for as long as i'm aware.  at least since the eighties.   if employers specify that you muse have grade c in english, they mean language.



OCR hasn't published the new spec on their website, yet.  I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a ubiquity of "Animal Farm", btw.  Quality novels that are short and engaging...  it's what's needed. There are alternatives to the american writers, but it's a ridiculous restriction to impose those changes.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 26, 2014)

_angel_ said:


> I did both in 1989. Fairly sure language was as "compulsory" as they could make it at the time (ie you could still leave school without finishing fifth form, in theory).


Same here (same year too). I *think* we did To Kill a Mockingbird and Of Mice and Men, Romeo and Juliet and some other stuff which I can't remember now. In English Lit I only remember doing war poetry, so I don't know if the books were just done in English Language. Scary to think this was quarter of a century ago.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 26, 2014)

Heart Of Darkness would be an acceptable replacement for Of Mice And Men, and would still ideologically irritate Gove. It's short, provides a critical examination of imperialism, and was written by a Polish author, coming over here and stealing our words.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 26, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Heart Of Darkness would be an acceptable replacement for Of Mice And Men, and would still ideologically irritate Gove. It's short, provides a critical examination of imperialism, and was written by Polish author, coming over here and stealing our words.



It's really turgid though IMO.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 26, 2014)

No it isn't. It's perfectly written. I read it at GCSE IIRC (though it may have been A-level). Knowing reading levels at my school though, it might prove too difficult. About half the pupils have reading ages two years below their real ages.


----------



## Cid (May 26, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> yeah, lit has been the optional one for as long as i'm aware.  at least since the eighties.   if employers specify that you muse have grade c in english, they mean language.
> 
> 
> 
> OCR hasn't published the new spec on their website, yet.  I wouldn't be at all surprised to see a ubiquity of "Animal Farm", btw.  Quality novels that are short and engaging...  it's what's needed. There are alternatives to the american writers, but it's a ridiculous restriction to impose those changes.



Ah, well I probably did take it then. Don't really remember my GCSEs. Think I started smoking weed around then.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (May 26, 2014)

A woman from Brighton can't make enough. The Gove pin cushions are selling like hot cakes!


----------



## farmerbarleymow (May 26, 2014)

Mr.Bishie said:


> A woman from Brighton can't make enough. The Gove pin cushions are selling like hot cakes!


She should do the whole cabinet - she'd make a fortune. 

Sadly the pickles one would be the most expensive due to the extra wool required.


----------



## Idris2002 (May 26, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> No it isn't. It's perfectly written. I read it at GCSE IIRC (though it may have been A-level). Knowing reading levels at my school though, it might prove too difficult. About half the pupils have reading ages two years below their real ages.



"When vegetation rioted, and the big trees were king".

"And this, too, has been one of the dark places of the earth".

"He was an - extremist".


----------



## brogdale (May 26, 2014)

farmerbarleymow said:


> She should do the whole cabinet - she'd make a fortune.
> 
> Sadly the pickles one would be the most expensive due to the extra wool required.


 Now, now...we don't this thread to go all Sarah Millican, do we?


----------



## stavros (May 26, 2014)

Presumably all books, new or old, will be read by pupils alone rather than out loud to the class, as Mr Gove doesn't want to be seen to be encouraging listening to others.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 27, 2014)

Even my quietly tory-voting big sister has posted something on Facebook hating on Gove (with an added comment, not just shared without consideration), first time I've ever seen her post anything remotely political (she teaches early years).  I'm actually gobsmacked by this - if he's pissing off someone like her then he's really ballsing it up.


----------



## stavros (May 28, 2014)

Can we take Mr Gove's pro-English stance a step further by getting rid of any Education Secretaries who aren't English too?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Jun 4, 2014)

Just watching a documentary on Netflix about the education system in the US, and promoting charter schools as an alternative (goves 'free schools', in other words). It's like peering inside Gove's mind. The term 'the blob' even comes up, which is obviously where Gove got the phrase. Can't find a free stream of it anywhere, but there is a response to the film here:


----------



## likesfish (Jun 8, 2014)

Suprised the bunfight over trojan horse between gove and may isnt up here.
 Its daily mail bingo state school council muslamics


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jun 8, 2014)

Radio 4 just ran a profile on Gove as part of their "broadcasting house" prog. 

His favourite "rappers" are Wham and Public Enemy


----------



## existentialist (Jun 8, 2014)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Radio 4 just ran a profile on Gove as part of their "broadcasting house" prog.
> 
> His favourite "rappers" are Wham and Public Enemy


He is so far up the spectrum of nobtitude, you have to wonder if it's a strategy. Perhaps one he evolved at school: you remember those kids who somehow made themselves so eminently bullyable that they were able to dine out on a consistent broad streak of victimhood, almost as if by being such a bratty little cunt, they're not worth the bother of being unpleasant to.

Which is perhaps understandable in a schoolkid; rather less so in a government minister.

And then that's the other thing: he does seem awfully as if he is trying to right some perceived wrong of his own experience. It's telling that he's slightly younger than me, but seems to be harking back to a Golden Age of education slightly before he (and I) would have been in school, almost as if there is some desperate effort to wind back the clock to *before* his own schooldays, when everything must somehow have been better and nicer.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jun 8, 2014)

What Gove is doing has precedents. 


> Pinochet pushed through the education law just four days before leaving power; it placed the responsibility for education in the hands of the private sector at the same time as allowing complete freedom to create educational centres. The result was the deterioration of the quality of education, while making it prohibitively expensive. Working class people now struggle to get into university and have to make do with municipal secondary colleges – in other words, a second class education. In 2006 the so-called Penguins movement (thus named because of their school uniform) mobilised half a million school students in support of the de-privatisation of education and the rescinding of the law.


 http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2010/sep/11/chile-coup-anniversary-pinochet


----------



## stavros (Jun 8, 2014)

One of Andrew Neil's guests this morning, it was either Toynbee or the other Grauniad hack there, reckoned the Gove-May spat was him positioning himself to get fully behind Gideon for next year's possible leadership election against May. I'd never have thought Gove would want to be some other cunt's puppet.


----------



## existentialist (Jun 8, 2014)

stavros said:


> One of Andrew Neil's guests this morning, it was either Toynbee or the other Grauniad hack there, reckoned the Gove-May spat was him positioning himself to get fully behind Gideon for next year's possible leadership election against May. I'd never have thought Gove would want to be some other cunt's puppet.


I wouldn't have credited him with the self-awareness, but perhaps he realises that he just doesn't stand a chance as party leader, and is happy to back someone else on that basis?


----------



## stavros (Jun 8, 2014)

The Cheney to Gideon's Dubya?


----------



## existentialist (Jun 8, 2014)

stavros said:


> The Cheney to Gideon's Dubya?


Heh, that just about fits 

God, we're even aiming to ape the US in the idiocy of our leaders


----------



## tim (Jun 8, 2014)

A Goveian dream of how education should be. Look out for the school chaplain at 58 seconds, he is strangely familiar!


----------



## Balbi (Jun 9, 2014)

This OFSTED mess is actually it, it's the thing that makes me never ever want to come near Uk education again.


----------



## treefrog (Jun 12, 2014)

Certainly a big reason for me never wanting to live in the uk again.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 15, 2014)

Lower favourability rating than Clegg! Respect; that's going some...


----------



## miktheword (Jun 15, 2014)

brogdale said:


> Lower favourability rating than Clegg! Respect; that's going some...




although among tory members
May now outstripping Johnson and gove's support halving .

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/10/theresa-may-michael-gove-tories-leadership

In the event of a Conservative leadership election, the idea that Gove would be May's chief opponent looks unlikely. A poll of Tory members published last week by Conservative Home put May top, at 35%, with Boris Johnson on 23% and Gove down from 15% to 8% in only a few months


----------



## brogdale (Jun 16, 2014)

Amusing to watch...but Govey's response to being ticked off reminds me of my mother's horrible poodle that always had to have the last yap when it had been corrected...



> In comments likely to leave Gove open to renewed political attack, Dominic Cummings *described Cameron as "bumbling"* and claimed education reforms were being held back by the *lack of support and sense *of purpose on the part of the prime minister.
> 
> Just days after Gove was ordered to issue an humiliating apology following a row with the home secretary, Theresa May, over policy on combating extremism in schools, Cummings said in an interview with the Times: "*As Bismarck said about Napoleon III, Cameron is a sphinx without a riddle.*
> 
> "Everyone is trying to find out the secret of David Cameron but he is exactly what he appears to be. *There's no mystery to him. He had a picture of Macmillan on his wall – that's all you need to know."*


----------



## stavros (Jun 21, 2014)

miktheword said:


> May now outstripping Johnson



"Cripes! Tess can strip me anytime, what!"


----------



## GovePhobia (Jun 22, 2014)

http://govephobia.tumblr.com/


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 22, 2014)

Compressed meat product.

You also seem to have misunderstood Mao.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 22, 2014)

seventh bullet said:


> Compressed meat product.
> 
> You also seem to have misunderstood Mao.



The Chairman was often misunderstood.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jun 23, 2014)

When using a tiny quote picked from a wider discussion he had and deliberately shorn of its context.


----------



## Gingerman (Jul 4, 2014)

http://news.sky.com/story/1295031/tory-donor-ross-in-frame-to-chair-ofsted
Thats a surprise.....not


----------



## gaijingirl (Jul 4, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> http://news.sky.com/story/1295031/tory-donor-ross-in-frame-to-chair-ofsted
> Thats a surprise.....not



aaaaaaaarrghhh!  I don't know why I am still surprised at this shit.. but still.. aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgh!


----------



## Gingerman (Jul 4, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> aaaaaaaarrghhh!  I don't know why I am still surprised at this shit.. but still.. aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgh!


Went to a private school, is very wealthy and has donated a fortune to the tories,perfectly qualified for the job then.....


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 5, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> http://news.sky.com/story/1295031/tory-donor-ross-in-frame-to-chair-ofsted
> Thats a surprise.....not





They've run out of ideological nutty policies at the fag-end of this parliament and can only make ideologically nutty appointments. Gove actively wants to provoke here. He'd desperately love a "showdown" with the teaching unions in order to show his mettle, and fuck the impact on teachers, children and their families. Vile toad.


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 5, 2014)

eatmorecheese said:


> They've run out of ideological nutty policies at the fag-end of this parliament and can only make ideologically nutty appointments. Gove actively wants to provoke here. He'd desperately love a "showdown" with the teaching unions in order to show his mettle, and fuck the impact on teachers, children and their families. Vile toad.


I did say in passing to some of the kids on thursday that they might not have a lesson next week because i think i'm going to have to go to into town and shout at Mr Gove.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jul 5, 2014)

eatmorecheese said:


> They've run out of ideological nutty policies at the fag-end of this parliament and can only make ideologically nutty appointments. Gove actively wants to provoke here. He'd desperately love a "showdown" with the teaching unions in order to show his mettle, and fuck the impact on teachers, children and their families. Vile toad.


i imagine this was his plan all along. Get money, give positions. Hardly anything revolutionary.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 6, 2014)

Gingerman said:


> http://news.sky.com/story/1295031/tory-donor-ross-in-frame-to-chair-ofsted
> Thats a surprise.....not


Afaic, he's not qualified. This sums up the problem with British management as a whole, which is unqualified, poorly qualified and incompetent.


----------



## Gingerman (Jul 6, 2014)




----------



## teqniq (Jul 9, 2014)

http://games.usvsth3m.com/slap-michael-gove/


----------



## Balbi (Jul 9, 2014)

My thoughts on my last strike (in the UK, anyway )

http://shinbonestar.org/2014/07/09/the-last-strike/


----------



## StoneRoad (Jul 9, 2014)

teqniq said:


> http://games.usvsth3m.com/slap-michael-gove/



just added 101 slaps to that ! (180 others at the same time)

could keep on for a loooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggg time with that, vile creep that he is


----------



## StoneRoad (Jul 10, 2014)

StoneRoad said:


> just added 101 slaps to that ! (180 others at the same time)
> 
> could keep on for a loooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggggggg time with that, vile creep that he is




now up to about 724 slappers and 13,098,091 slaps - get in ! yay!!! that feels so good.
(this is a very anti-violence person speaking!)


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 10, 2014)

Me, today, giving it some:


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 11, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Me, today, giving it some:



I like the way you've edited the Swappies out of the poster, and rendered Gove's horns visible.


----------



## stavros (Jul 12, 2014)

The current issue of Private Eye speculates that, due to the extravagances he's been receiving from the Rothermeres, Gove could be the next editor of the Daily Mail. This seems highly unlikely as he's obviously has his eyes on Number 10. However, at least it would mean his daft ideas would only be spouted to other cunts.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jul 12, 2014)

Gingerman said:


>


Does he strike poses like this with any degree of self awareness? He must know how much of a cartoon he appears?


----------



## teqniq (Jul 12, 2014)

Parents of academy pupils told not to talk about alleged £2m fraud



> Parents of pupils attending a chain of three academies championed by education secretary Michael Gove and founded by his former schools commissioner have been told not to talk to the media about a £2m fraud to which it has allegedly fallen victim.
> 
> In a letter to parents written last month, Adrian Percival, CEO of Haberdashers' Aske's Federation Trust, which is based in south-east London and is responsible for 4,500 pupils, said: "The appalling crime appears to have been committed over a period of seven years, during which time the perpetrator appears to have set up a large number of small fraudulent transactions in order to commit these crimes unnoticed."
> 
> A 55-year-old man from Lambeth has been arrested in connection with the investigation, the Met police confirmed.....


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 12, 2014)

That's academies for you. Lots of potential for massive cronyism and fraud. Just like so many partly privatised public services.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 12, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Me, today, giving it some:


didn't know you had a special spangles shirt


----------



## spanglechick (Jul 12, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> didn't know you had a special spangles shirt


it's a dress.  I have become attached to my urban nickname.


----------



## albionism (Jul 14, 2014)

"I was born, will live and die proud to be a Zionist."


----------



## Nylock (Jul 15, 2014)

Well, we ended the year with another tranche of staff cuts... Across our three campuses: 

3 library staff down to 1 (campus 1), 1 library made electronic only & all library staff made redundant (campus 2), Staff cut in library at campus 3
All admissions amalgamated to campus 1 with the admissions team as a whole cut by 75%
Significant admin office staff cuts (can't remember the figures atm)
No replacement of teaching staff facing retirement, part-time tutors to infill in compatible subject areas to make up shortfalls in teaching staff on some programmes.
There have been a bunch of lay-offs and redundancies over this academic year as well, with more cuts to come next year as well.

Nice one Gove, you irredeemable abject cunt.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 15, 2014)

He's gone!


----------



## killer b (Jul 15, 2014)

i had the pleasure of giving the good news to a couple of ex-teachers on my way to work. The joy in their faces will keep me smiling all day.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 15, 2014)

He's wrecked it all though. It's too late.


----------



## J Ed (Jul 15, 2014)

Morgan is an ex-corporate lawyer in mergers and acquisitions, the perfect person to oversee the privatisation of education.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 15, 2014)

Hallelujah! So where is Pob off to now?


----------



## Libertad (Jul 15, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> Hallelujah! So where is Pob off to now?



Chief whip.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 15, 2014)

Libertad said:


> Chief whip.


Who gets the education portfolio? McVey? I wouldn't be surprised if Cameron chose someone that useless to fill Gove's seat.


----------



## Libertad (Jul 15, 2014)

Nicky Morgan.


----------



## killer b (Jul 15, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> He's wrecked it all though. It's too late.


 certainly. I see this as a personal blow to Gove though rather than a victory for education. As such, its still worth celebrating.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 15, 2014)

Libertad said:


> Nicky Morgan.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 15, 2014)




----------



## fishfinger (Jul 15, 2014)

Balbi said:


>



Keep posting it, and I'll keep liking it!


----------



## teqniq (Jul 15, 2014)




----------



## StoneRoad (Jul 15, 2014)

Just told my OH, an ear to ear grin results ...............


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Jul 15, 2014)

Morgan seems to be a religious loon.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 15, 2014)

Out of the frying-pan...


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2014)

Quick point on education secs - in the last 70 years there have been 31 of them. 8 (25%) of them did not go to private schools. Of those 70 years, 50 (72%) of them had privately educated Secretaries. The new one appointed today is both privately educated and Oxbridge.


----------



## agricola (Jul 15, 2014)

Have we had this yet? (from twitter)


----------



## ska invita (Jul 15, 2014)

will this make any difference to anything? genuine question


----------



## teqniq (Jul 15, 2014)

agricola


----------



## fishfinger (Jul 15, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Quick point on education secs - in the last 70 years there have been 22 of them. 6 (25%) of them did not go to private schools. Of those 70 years, 50 (72%) of them had privately educated Secretaries. The new one appointed today is both privately educated and Oxbridge.


If there's been 22, then I think you meant 15, not 50 were privately educated.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 15, 2014)

fishfinger said:


> If there's been 22, then I think you meant 15, not 50 were privately educated.


Sorry, the first figure was was 8/31. The 6/22 was back to 1964 - corrected now. And you've misread what the 50 referred to - that's years. 50 years out of 70.


----------



## fishfinger (Jul 15, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Sorry, the first figure was was 8/31. The 6/22 was back to 1964 - corrected now. And you've misread what the 50 referred to - that's years. 50 years out of 70.


Oops


----------



## Balbi (Jul 15, 2014)

agricola said:


> Have we had this yet? (from twitter)



I have a printed version on my cupboard door at work.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 15, 2014)

THIS FILE IS NOW CLOSED


----------



## existentialist (Jul 15, 2014)

Balbi said:


> THIS FILE IS NOW CLOSED


The hell it is!

Gove as the main PR man is going to be a rich vein of unintentional humour...


----------



## sim667 (Jul 15, 2014)

ska invita said:


> will this make any difference to anything? genuine question


 
No.

Everything thats been done to the education system has been ideologically biased to create a tiered education system to profiteer from the state education system, whilst dampening the aspirations of lecturers and learners involved.

The way they want education to work is to have factory farming teaching for the masses and free range happy farming for those who's parents can pay for it.

Nicky Morgan will make it worse, judging by her background and the fact that she's adverse to equality and diversity as a whole.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 15, 2014)

This might as well be the thread to ask this, but do any of you education experts know if it is possible for an academy to change into a community school or 'revert' to LA control in some way? This is purely an academic question of course.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 15, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> This might as well be the thread to ask this, but do any of you education experts know if it is possible for an academy to change into a community school or 'revert' to LA control in some way? This is purely an academic question of course.



I think a few were returned to LA if the sponsor fucks up money wise


----------



## Betsy (Jul 15, 2014)

Michael Gove was just on 5 Live sounding quite chippy.  When told by Peter Allen how unpopular he is/was he reminded Peter that at least he was never trapped in a room by militant teachers as David Blunkett was.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 15, 2014)

Balbi said:


> I think a few were returned to LA if the sponsor fucks up money wise


for the better?
could this only happen if an LA had to step in, or could the staff and parents request or demand it? again, this is ENTIRELY and SINCERELY an academic question.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2014)

Betsy said:


> Michael Gove was just on 5 Live sounding quite chippy.  When told by Peter Allen how unpopular he is/was he reminded Peter that at least he was never trapped in a room by militant teachers as David Blunkett was.


yeh but you can't expect a blind man to be as nippy on his feet as gove.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jul 15, 2014)

Well, despite all the negatives I, for one, am in a great mood this afternoon.  Lovely end of term gift.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 15, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> for the better?
> could this only happen if an LA had to step in, or could the staff and parents request or demand it? again, this is ENTIRELY and SINCERELY an academic question.


I doubt it's possible - the whole system is currently geared to moving schools out of LA control and there seems to be no way to move them back again (without the trust going bankrupt or similar).

I doubt Morgan will do anything significant at all, especially not in this regard. It will be more interesting to see what happens with Free Schools perhaps as an indication of how a system which relies on over funding of vanity projects might look like in the future.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 15, 2014)

So a £30k pay cut for Gove?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2014)

Badgers said:


> So a £30k pay cut for Gove?


they should have kept paying him the same but lopped off a quarter of his body.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 15, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> Well, despite all the negatives I, for one, am in a great mood this afternoon.  Lovely end of term gift.


yeh. let's hope the euphoria lasts all summer long


----------



## Badgers (Jul 15, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> they should have kept paying him the same but lopped off a quarter of his body.


I have always admired your willingness to forgive.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 15, 2014)

Badgers said:


> So a £30k pay cut for Gove?




far be it from me to suggest that someone in CW role knows enough bodies buried and has enough clout to wring gratuities out of the rank and file mp...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 15, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but you can't expect a blind man to be as nippy on his feet as gove.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jul 15, 2014)

"When a Gove comes along, you must whip it!"


----------



## stavros (Jul 15, 2014)

Last night's Dispatches, on faith schools, was a nice leaving note.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jul 15, 2014)




----------



## Flanflinger (Jul 16, 2014)

SpookyFrank said:


>


 
Hope that was a massive dog turd he slipped on.


----------



## nino_savatte (Jul 16, 2014)

Apparently Gove is going to be the 'face' of the Conservative Party in the run-up to the election. He's the most hated politician in Britain. That'll go well.


----------



## elbows (Jul 16, 2014)

nino_savatte said:


> Apparently Gove is going to be the 'face' of the Conservative Party in the run-up to the election. He's the most hated politician in Britain. That'll go well.



From this article which is also amusing to me in several other regards:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jul/16/backbenchers-support-michael-gove-sarah-vine-protest



> The Gove camp were so angered by overnight reports in the Guardian, Daily Mail and Times that Tory campaign director Lynton Crosby had warned No 10 that he was toxic in polls, that Vine endorsed a Daily Mail article which said the reshuffle amounted to a "small earthquake in Whitehall".


----------



## brogdale (Jul 16, 2014)

Sorry if this has been put up before, but if not, it's well worth giving up 14 minutes of your time to witness Gove attempting to persuade us that he's not been sacked.

http://bcove.me/idnreyv9


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 16, 2014)

From the same article, a quote from Hastings' article in the Fail:



> In the article, Hastings wrote: "The sacking of Michael Gove – for assuredly, his demotion from education secretary to chief whip amounts to nothing less – has shocked middle England. Here was the undisputed Tory hero of the past four years – a man with a mission, a crusader, an obsessive, who has shown the courage to hurl himself into the task of salvaging Britain's ruined schools system in a fashion no other holder of his office in modern times has attempted."



Salvaged? Ah, that's the polite way of saying "asset stripped" is it? Fuckwit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2014)

its the standard thing, they talk down and outright lie about the state of the public services in order to appoint some new-broom dickhead who is their to facilitate the sell off, neoliberal style.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 17, 2014)

http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/17/gove-gets-stuck-in-toilet-on-first-day-of-new-job-4801408/

Gove gets stuck in the bog LOL

shame nobody was there to flush his head down it


----------



## teqniq (Jul 17, 2014)

I'm sure he felt right at home with all the other turds.


----------



## superfly101 (Jul 17, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> http://metro.co.uk/2014/07/17/gove-gets-stuck-in-toilet-on-first-day-of-new-job-4801408/
> 
> Gove gets stuck in the bog LOL
> 
> shame nobody was there to flush his head down it



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28341980?ocid=socialflow_twitter

Think Hague got a good quip in to Angela Eagle; 

William Hague: Gove carrying out duties very *ass*iduously


----------



## stavros (Jul 18, 2014)

The Blob beats the Pob.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 20, 2014)

stavros said:


> The Blob beats the Pob.



Not really; it was Pob himself who did for Pop. He legislated for schools to be free from the 'fetters' of the blob, to do as they see fit...and some of them did. That's what beat Pob.


----------



## stavros (Jul 20, 2014)

True, and I suppose they have to deal with another waste of oxygen now, who's yet to fully show her full array of cuntishness.


----------



## BlueSquareThing (Jul 20, 2014)

stavros said:


> True, and I suppose they have to deal with another waste of oxygen now, who's yet to fully show her full array of cuntishness.


I don't believe she's said a word yet has she?

Something about her wanting to listen more was released but I would be fairly certain that came straight from Crosby rather than being her idea.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 21, 2014)

In the "PM" interview, with Eddie Mair, Gove just refused to commit to resign if another vermin MP deserted to the 'kippers. Well worth a listen; the oily fucker was really paddling fast under the water. 





Lol


----------



## stavros (Nov 21, 2014)

That dog looks like it's experiencing all kinds of grief.


----------



## teqniq (Nov 21, 2014)

Why me?


----------



## brogdale (Nov 21, 2014)

tbh govey looks like he's been on the piss


----------



## stavros (Nov 22, 2014)

brogdale said:


> tbh govey looks like he's been on the piss



I'm sure we've all talked some bollocks when inebriated, but surely there are limits.


----------



## Sweet FA (Nov 22, 2014)

That dog's seen some shit, man.



And probably eaten it tbf.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 9, 2015)

Gove at MoJ. Blimey. Free prisons? Miscreants sentenced to learn lists of kings and queens?


----------



## youngian (May 9, 2015)

And well done dim SNP fearing English Tories, you've voted for the vilest politician ever to come out of Scotland to erode your Human rights http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/michael-gove-made-justice-secretary-5671445


----------



## Lemon Eddy (May 10, 2015)

Private and public prisons, so hard working citizens who face themselves incarcerationally challenged can pay a little bit extra for a nicer stay.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2015)

Lemon Eddy said:


> Private and public prisons, so hard working citizens who face themselves incarcerationally challenged can pay a little bit extra for a nicer stay.


g4s run six UK private prisons already


----------



## Lemon Eddy (May 10, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> g4s run six UK private prisons already



That was before Gove got a say.  Academy prisons, anyone?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2015)

prisons run by yogic flyers! you'll have people levitating over the walls and back into crime


----------



## Lemon Eddy (May 10, 2015)

It would be of great loss to society if people such as these, showing drive, commitment, and a willingness to create wealth, were to be locked up with shirkers such as those found in old fashioned prisons.  That is why I am proud to offer a fast track to rehabilitation, enabling these people to more efficiently resume their rightful place in society.


----------



## Greebo (May 10, 2015)

Lemon Eddy said:


> It would be of great loss to society if people such as these, showing drive, commitment, and a willingness to create wealth, were to be locked up with shirkers such as those found in old fashioned prisons.  That is why I am proud to offer a fast track to rehabilitation, enabling these people to more efficiently resume their rightful place in society.


FFS stop giving him ideas.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 10, 2015)

He was strongly in favour of covering up child-rape by toffs as I recall ... 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...oliticians-at-top-of-westminster-9587642.html


----------



## tim (May 10, 2015)

youngian said:


> And well done dim SNP fearing English Tories, you've voted for the vilest politician ever to come out of Scotland to erode your Human rights http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/michael-gove-made-justice-secretary-5671445



I think you'll find that the Scottish government is in charge of Scottish prisons. They probably see Gove as a dim underachiever sent south to keep the natives under control. As to his being the vilest member of the Scotch diaspora, is he really more objectionable  than George Galloway or Tony Blair?

And of course even if Labour have won every seat in Scotland, including the Tory one, we'd still have a Conservative majority in Westminster.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2015)

tim said:


> I think you'll find that the Scottish government is in charge of Scottish prisons.


I think youngian's thesis is that the Tories were voted in, perhaps even against the better judgement of the voters, on the back of the scare stories about the SNP. (If that's really the case, then the Union is on its last legs).  



> They probably see Gove as a dim underachiever sent south to keep the natives under control.


Who do? Who is thinking that Scots living in England are colonial masters?

Most people here, I imagine, just think of him as a Tory.  Not sure his place of birth is relevant. 



> As to his being the vilest member of the Scotch diaspora, is he really more objectionable  than George Galloway or Tony Blair?


Indeed. 



> And of course even if Labour have won every seat in Scotland, including the Tory one, we'd still have a Conservative majority in Westminster.


Indeed, but I don't think youngian wS saying different.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 10, 2015)

tim said:


> And of course even if Labour have won every seat in Scotland, including the Tory one, we'd still have a Conservative majority in Westminster.



Can we make a locked sticky thread with just this comment in please, for the benefit of the hard of learning?

(Twitter could do with the same)


----------



## StoneRoad (May 10, 2015)

'kin'ell ...........gove as MoJ. that's 'orrible.
I wonder how long it will be before all the screws despise him as much as the teaching profession.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2015)

StoneRoad said:


> 'kin'ell ...........gove as MoJ. that's 'orrible.
> I wonder how long it will be before all the screws despise him as much as the teaching profession.



It doesn't really matter. There are infinitely more teachers than there are screws, so it mattered that Gove was pissing them off and he had to be moved. Screws, en masse, have much less ability to put their arguments across.


----------



## CNT36 (May 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It doesn't really matter. There are infinitely more teachers than there are screws, so it mattered that Gove was pissing them off and he had to be moved. Screws, en masse, have much less ability to put their arguments across.


Go home early a couple of nights a week once the inevitable toughening up occurs.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> Go home early a couple of nights a week once the inevitable toughening up occurs.



I don't entirely follow?


----------



## Libertad (May 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It doesn't really matter. There are infinitely more teachers than there are screws, so it mattered that Gove was pissing them off and he had to be moved. Screws, en masse, have much less ability to put their arguments across.



They have lost the right to strike for a start.


----------



## CNT36 (May 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I don't entirely follow?


The whole no cigarettes, no tv, no hope of release routine. I don't think the screws will have to do much themselves for it to start hitting the headlines.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2015)

CNT36 said:


> The whole no cigarettes, no tv, no hope of release routine. I don't think the screws will have to do much themselves for it to start hitting the headlines.



Riots tend to harden attitudes against prisoners, don't they? There's no political benefit in sensible justice policies; counter-productive ones win votes. 

Must admit I'd be all for a cigarette ban in prisons.


----------



## youngian (May 10, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Most people here, I imagine, just think of him as a Tory.  Not sure his place of birth is relevant.


 Of course and my post was simply playing on the irony of the facile Tory nationalist dog whistling about the ungrateful Jocks coming down to fuck you over. Hope that clarifies it for people, who unlike yourself, misinterpreted my post. 

Cheap shot alert:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...oliticians-at-top-of-westminster-9587642.html

How shall I put this, would you rule out a BSE scandal enquiry if you were a Minister of Agriculture that looks like a farmer


----------



## brogdale (May 10, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Gove at MoJ. Blimey. Free prisons? Miscreants sentenced to learn lists of kings and queens?


 
I think this tells us more about cameron's leadership deal with osborne, than anything coherent about neo-liberal policy wrt to the justice system. 

Gove is in place to trip May up.


----------



## stavros (Jul 20, 2015)

I'm a bit worried this thread has gone a little quiet since the election. Surely his cuntery is still prevalent?


----------



## stavros (Feb 21, 2016)

Gove wants out apparently. I don't know about you, but I'm not going to hold him back.


----------



## bi0boy (Feb 21, 2016)

Today some people are apparently touting him as PM material again


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Feb 21, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> Today some people are apparently touting him as PM material again



HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Feb 21, 2016)




----------



## tim (Feb 22, 2016)

Gove and Farage  are obviously the new power couple of British politics. He has got previous experience of playing the role of a seemingly pious side-kick to a seemingly more sinister leader


----------



## brogdale (Feb 27, 2016)

Could have gone in the 'crapped pants' thread, but hey ho.


----------



## stavros (Feb 27, 2016)

The sight of Gove smiling ranks up there with Gordon Brown.


----------



## butchersapron (Jul 4, 2016)

I presume this has been posted before?


----------



## stavros (Jul 4, 2016)

butchersapron said:


> I presume this has been posted before?




Oh how I wish Spitting Image was still around.


----------



## nuffsaid (Jul 5, 2016)

This from BBC news feed - Ken Clarke and Malcolm Rifkind discussing Gove:

Mr Clarke questions Mrs May's knowledge of foreign affairs, but is even more scathing about Michael Gove on that issue.

"I remember being in a discussion about something to do with somewhere like Syria or Iraq and he was so wild that I remember exchanging looks with Liam Fox," he said.

"We were exchanging views and Liam was raising his eyebrows.

"I think with Michael as prime minister we'd go to war with at least three countries at once."


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2016)

nuffsaid said:


> "I think with Michael as prime minister we'd go to war with at least three countries at once."



The first time I became aware of Gove was when he was still a journalist, and was on some tv program, possibly channel 4, in the build up to the Iraq war. It was presented like a mock trial over the war, and Gove was making the case for war. He was right at home with the US Neocons who were on and he came across as utterly unhinged and rabid on the issue. 

I was really bloody hoping that clips from that program would resurface, but I've seen little mention of it since he became a Tory MP. Tomorrow would be a great day for it to resurface, given Chilcot and Kens comments today. But I can't remember what it was called, let alone summon it from the archives. I believe it also featured Bob Marshall-Andrews arguing the case against, and the US neocons were probably Richard Perle and David Frum.


----------



## Buckaroo (Jul 5, 2016)

Wiki stuff...

The _Financial Times_ describes Gove as having "strong neoconservative convictions". He proposed that the invasion of Iraq would bring peace and democracy both to Iraq and the wider Middle East. In December 2008, he wrote that declarations of either victory or defeat in Iraq in 2003 were premature, and that the liberation of Iraq was a foreign policy success.

"The liberation of Iraq has actually been that rarest of things – a proper British foreign policy success. Next year, while the world goes into recession, Iraq is likely to enjoy 10% GDP growth. Alone in the Arab Middle East, it is now a fully functioning democracy with a free press, properly contested elections and an independent judiciary ... Sunni and Shia contend for power in parliament, not in street battles. The ingenuity, idealism and intelligence of the Iraqi people can now find an outlet in a free society rather than being deployed, as they were for decades, simply to ensure survival in a fascist republic that stank of fear."

— Michael Gove, Michael Gove: Triumph of freedom over evil


----------



## teqniq (Jul 5, 2016)

Fast forward to 2016 the country is in ruins and it is questionable whether it will ever be fully reunited. Over 200 dead in the latest Baghdad bombing by IS.

Deluded fucking tosser.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 7, 2016)

Even his vermin colleagues hate him.
Venal fucker.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 7, 2016)

'kinnel. Truly, he could have been the heir to Blair...


> Even in the final hour, Gove was vainly trying to make the leap from character actor to leading man. A Spectator interview found him glossing the Boris knifing thus: “I compare it to a group of people standing outside a collapsing building, wondering who is going to rescue a child inside. I thought: well, I don’t think I’ve got either the strength or the speed for this, but as I looked around, I thought, God, I’m at least as strong and at least as fast as the others. I’ve got to try to save the child.” Spoken like the world’s creepiest arsonist.


----------



## bi0boy (Jul 10, 2016)




----------



## elbows (Jul 10, 2016)

brogdale said:


> 'kinnel. Truly, he could have been the heir to Blair...
> ​



Blair was all about appealing to the middle. Gove on the other hand has never bothered to disguise the fact that he is radical, fanatical character who wishes to reform specific areas with zealous zeal.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 10, 2016)

elbows said:


> Blair was all about appealing to the middle. Gove on the other hand has never bothered to disguise the fact that he is radical, fanatical character who wishes to reform specific areas with zealous zeal.


Quite so, but that quote would suggest they share something of the messianic.


----------



## elbows (Jul 10, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Quite so, but that quote would suggest they share a something of the messianic.



Could certainly cast both of them in some kind of dark, clerical farce.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 14, 2016)

Pesto thinks it's all over for gover...


----------



## bi0boy (Jul 14, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Pesto thinks it's all over for gover...




He knew that Chris Grayling would be chancellor...


----------



## brogdale (Jul 14, 2016)

bi0boy said:


> He knew that Chris Grayling would be chancellor...


Oh yeah, but this one is an easier guess.


----------



## killer b (Jul 14, 2016)

It does seem unlikely that gove & Johnson would share a bench, considering. 

May should watch her back.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 14, 2016)

Confirmed...


----------



## May Kasahara (Jul 14, 2016)

I actually cackled when I read this news


----------



## t0bytoo (Jul 14, 2016)

I squealed with joy.


----------



## steveo87 (Jul 14, 2016)

Defection to UKIP in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...


----------



## killer b (Jul 14, 2016)

What gove to ukip? Not a chance.


----------



## JimW (Jul 14, 2016)

Turns out my prediction he'd be leader was a bit wide of the mark.


----------



## wheelie_bin (Jul 14, 2016)

It's delightful news!


----------



## stavros (Jul 14, 2016)

To the naughty chair with you!


----------



## Lurdan (Jul 15, 2016)

> Having lost access to his ministerial Jaguar, Mr Gove left parliament in a minicab. Soon after he was seen in the High Street Kensington branch of Waterstones, flicking through _Blood Wedding_, by Pierre Lemaitre, in which the lead character is suspected of murdering her employer.


----------



## stavros (Jul 17, 2016)

Of all the major players of the Cameron era - Osborne, Lansley, Hunt, May, IDS, Pickles, Hague, the man himself - where does Gove rank on the cuntdom scale? Or is that like asking which of your children you prefer?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 17, 2016)

*++ TOWN ODDBALL KLAXON ++*



stavros said:


> To the naughty chair with you!



*++ TOWN ODDBALL KLAXON ++*​


----------



## brogdale (Aug 17, 2016)

Has a beard...



Was about to post usual stuff about looking like a right wrong'un...and then realised, to my horror, that he doesn't look a million miles away from myself ....on a bad day, obvs.


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 17, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Has a beard...
> 
> View attachment 91091
> 
> Was about to post usual stuff about looking like a right wrong'un...and then realised, to my horror, that he doesn't look a million miles away from myself ....on a bad day, obvs.


Omg, he looks much less weird with a beard.   I mean, obv still a vile human being, but he doesn't look like an aardman animation character any more.  What kind of fucking idiot chooses to look like pob?


----------



## spanglechick (Aug 17, 2016)

Might it be a diktat from Tory spin doctors? 

Are there any recent Tories with beards? I can only think of Labour MPs...


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2016)

spanglechick said:


> Might it be a diktat from Tory spin doctors?
> 
> Are there any recent Tories with beards? I can only think of Labour MPs...








stephen crabbe

or is that just a dirty face?


----------



## two sheds (Aug 17, 2016)

spanglechick said:


> Might it be a diktat from Tory spin doctors?
> 
> Are there any recent Tories with beards? I can only think of Labour MPs...




You're right it ruins the Pob effect 

We'll have to wait for a picture with his legs planted wide apart now.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 17, 2016)

spanglechick said:


> Might it be a diktat from Tory spin doctors?
> 
> Are there any recent Tories with beards? I can only think of Labour MPs...


Theresa May's CoS Nick Timothy has gone for full Mr Baxter

Nick Timothy - Google Search


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 17, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Has a beard...
> 
> View attachment 91091
> 
> Was about to post usual stuff about looking like a right wrong'un...and then realised, to my horror, that he doesn't look a million miles away from myself ....on a bad day, obvs.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 17, 2016)

spanglechick said:


> Omg, he looks much less weird with a beard.   I mean, obv still a vile human being, but he doesn't look like an aardman animation character any more.  What kind of fucking idiot chooses to look like pob?


he looks like he's woken up after a massive bender and is horrified at what he has done, yet he doesn't yet know exactly what he's done. He's gonna have to call Boris, but he's worried that Boris won't speak to him cos he thinks he might have done something to piss him off. God knows what though. Fuck it, best go back to bed.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 17, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> View attachment 91095


Enough about Beppe Di Marco, we're talking about Gove


----------



## catinthehat (Aug 17, 2016)

spanglechick said:


> Might it be a diktat from Tory spin doctors?
> 
> Are there any recent Tories with beards? I can only think of Labour MPs...


Facial hair or convenient wives?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 17, 2016)

catinthehat said:


> Facial hair or convenient wives?


either suits this thread


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 18, 2016)

is that bits of ginger in his beard?


----------



## Libertad (Aug 18, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> is that bits of ginger in his beard?



Quite possibly, damn I loved that cat.


----------



## Sprocket. (Aug 18, 2016)

brogdale said:


> Has a beard...
> 
> View attachment 91091
> 
> Was about to post usual stuff about looking like a right wrong'un...and then realised, to my horror, that he doesn't look a million miles away from myself ....on a bad day, obvs.



He has the look of a man marooned, I wonder if his only companion these days is called Wilson?


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 18, 2016)

Sprocket. said:


> He has the look of a man marooned, I wonder if his only companion these days is called Wilson?


Harold Wilson. He's lost it and worships the ghost of a former Labour leader


----------



## stavros (Aug 19, 2016)

He looks like he might've put on weight in the beard photo.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 19, 2016)

stavros said:


> He looks like he might've put on weight in the beard photo.


Bishops Finger does it.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 19, 2016)

stavros said:


> He looks like he might've put on weight in the beard photo.


He's having a Toblerone breakdown


----------



## stavros (Aug 19, 2016)

DaveCinzano said:


> He's having a Toblerone breakdown



What, driving to Dundee in his bare feet? Being clinically fed-up?


----------



## binka (Aug 19, 2016)

Needless to say, he had the last laugh


----------



## stavros (Aug 20, 2016)

Camberley town centre was pedestrianised long before he was elected.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 22, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> stephen crabbe
> 
> or is that just a dirty face?



Crabb's beard really looks like the furry surround of an artificial vagina that was in a catalogue of sex toys that appeared in a shared house I used to live in - I think it was called the 'Honey Pot'. It's lodged in my memory because in the catalogue picture a few of the bristles appeared to have loosened and become stuck to the surrounding plastic with *something*.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 22, 2016)

Dogsauce said:


> a catalogue of sex toys that appeared in a shared house I used to live in



'Appeared' - just out of nowhere, right?


----------



## brogdale (Sep 7, 2016)

Dirty bastard.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 8, 2016)

gets locked in a toilet. Flies constantly undone. Gove is quite clearly a chronic masturbator


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> gets locked in a toilet. Flies constantly undone. Gove is quite clearly a chronic masturbator


he also has form for hiding in toilets.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 8, 2016)

here he is, slipping in some spunk:


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> he also has form for hiding in toilets.


and to think a tory government let him near kids. Still, Leon Brittan got to be hom/sec so its clearly an endemic problem within the party


----------



## teqniq (Jan 31, 2017)

Impossible to see photo of Michael Gove and not say 'Twat' research proves - The Rochdale Herald


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 31, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Impossible to see photo of Michael Gove and not say 'Twat' research proves - The Rochdale Herald


----------



## brogdale (May 8, 2017)

Tweet of the week...if only for the pic!


----------



## teqniq (May 8, 2017)

Michael Gove is the Mekon.


----------



## stavros (May 8, 2017)

He didn't answer the question about being against grammar schools, I noticed.


----------



## stavros (Feb 23, 2018)

Michael Gove said:


> If it is bad, then banning it is a good thing.



Yet he's back in the cabinet.


----------



## stavros (Jul 5, 2018)

UK 'to keep more of its fish', Michael Gove says.

Slippery, cold-blooded, existing in a extremely dark world and with many natural predators, Michael Gove is 50.


----------



## A380 (Jul 5, 2018)

Said it before and will say it again. Your arm would never get tired.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 6, 2018)

stavros said:


> UK 'to keep more of its fish', Michael Gove says.
> 
> Slippery, cold-blooded, existing in a extremely dark world and with many natural predators, Michael Gove is 50.




i hate to say this, so take it with a pinch of sea salt, but without the EU meddling, we might not have had as many fish to take back. just saying like.


----------



## eatmorecheese (Oct 8, 2018)

Michael Gove: Let homeowners take home reusable rubbish found at council dumps

Gove seeks the right of 'homeowners' to scavenge tips. Glorious.


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 8, 2018)

eatmorecheese said:


> Michael Gove: Let homeowners take home reusable rubbish found at council dumps
> 
> Gove seeks the right of 'homeowners' to scavenge tips. Glorious.


Is this a euphemism for extending Right to Buy ?


----------



## Ground Elder (Oct 8, 2018)

Is this to be just a perk for hard working homeowners, or can us housing association scum join in?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 8, 2018)

At CPC18...nappy freshly filled face


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Oct 8, 2018)

Ground Elder said:


> Is this to be just a perk for hard working homeowners, or can us housing association scum join in?



only after the home owners have had first pick


----------



## Sue (Oct 8, 2018)

Puddy_Tat said:


> only after the home owners have had first pick


Know your place in the dump scavenging hierarchy .


----------



## Lurdan (Oct 8, 2018)

Sue said:


> Know your place in the dump scavenging hierarchy .


Waiting in the corner with the broom until they've finished.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 9, 2018)

eatmorecheese said:


> Michael Gove: Let homeowners take home reusable rubbish found at council dumps
> 
> Gove seeks the right of 'homeowners' to scavenge tips. Glorious.



Tbh he does have a point, some councils are proper nazi about people taking things from tips, whereas others have ‘tip shops’ run by volunteer or commercial organisations to pass on reusable items. I’ve known of someone prosecuted for taking something home (a worker at a site rather than a user). People do take perfectly good (and sometimes unused) items to tips.

When I was renting a house once our cooker didn’t have a grill pan. I scavenged a knackered one from a skip or somewhere that was a different model and didn’t fit very well (almost useless). Spotted the same model cooker as ours at the tip once and tried to nab the grill pan which would have been very useful but they wouldn’t let me take it even with the reasonable offer of swapping for the one I had at home. Seemed a bit stupid and jobsworth.


----------



## Ground Elder (Oct 9, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> When I was _renting_


You didn't own your home and you still expected to help yourself from the tip 

Is this actually a sensible proposal (the first ever?) from Gove? We used to scavenge all sorts from the dump, but the company contracted by the Council put a stop to it around a decade ago. I'd happily take stuff to the tip, knowing that someone else would find a use for it.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 8, 2019)

*bump* for a corker...



(screen-shot, not link due to source)

A recent picture of Gove (51 years)...


----------



## stavros (Jan 8, 2019)

brogdale said:


> A recent picture of Gove (51 years)...
> 
> View attachment 158107



Given when it dates from, it's not that bad. I've very few photos of Gove since he came to the political fore where he doesn't look like his own Spitting Image puppet.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 9, 2019)

I remember sometime in 2017 laughing at Gove, no longer in governement, hiding from the wife in wetherpsoons with all the other old men, being interrupted by a skype call from Channel 4 news. A few weeks later he was Minister for the Environement. Cunt.


----------



## Poi E (Jan 9, 2019)

I hear repeated references to his talents. I suspect one of them is keeping them well hidden.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 24, 2019)

Well ?...this has got to get the psychopath's juices flowing...straight in as PM; no messing.


----------



## Poi E (Mar 25, 2019)

Frightening man. His ability to dispatch thousands to their deaths would be without peer.

edit: doh, Tory, done it already.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 25, 2019)

Cabinet coup: May to be replaced as PM by Rupert Murdoch’s pet dog


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 25, 2019)

teqniq said:


> Cabinet coup: May to be replaced as PM by Rupert Murdoch’s pet dog



Didn't know Tony Blair was back in his good books.


----------



## Ming (Apr 19, 2019)

Don't know if anyone's posted this yet. Check this out for pure lies and hypocrisy. The man himself...


----------



## brogdale (Jun 7, 2019)

Oooh...edgy



He obviously got one of those calls inviting him to pen a 'confessional'


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 7, 2019)

Imagine Michael Gove coked up, all extra animated and that. Fucks sake


----------



## agricola (Jun 7, 2019)

brogdale said:


> Oooh...edgy
> 
> View attachment 173567
> 
> He obviously got one of those calls inviting him to pen a 'confessional'



the article itself is hilarious - apparently he did it before he ever thought of a career in politics*

* ie: several years after he'd applied to join the Conservative Research Department and wrote speeches for senior Tory MPs


----------



## Ming (Jun 7, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Imagine Michael Gove coked up, all extra animated and that. Fucks sake


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 7, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Imagine Michael Gove coked up, all extra animated and that. Fucks sake


----------



## brogdale (Jun 7, 2019)

Gotta wonder what he’ll unleash in revenge against TCJ now


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 7, 2019)

which leadership hopeful will admit to smashing drugs next I wonder. Sajid Javid admitting to glue sniffing? Grayling smoked bannana skins?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 7, 2019)

Matt Hancock's meph wanking shame


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 8, 2019)

Spoiler: 1922 committee meeting footage leaked


----------



## pesh (Jun 8, 2019)

all evidence suggests BJ has been on a quaalude bender for some years now


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 8, 2019)

These drug confessions might just be tactical to put pressure on Johnson to own up to things, knowing the scale/frequency of his indiscretions might not be so palatable to the Tory membership.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 8, 2019)

Ashamed of drug use, but not apparently ashamed of being tories. Which one has destroyed more lives?


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Jun 8, 2019)

Tomorrow's Mail on Sunday: Rory Stewart's amphetamine wank loop


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 8, 2019)

Zapp Brannigan said:


> amphetamine wank loop


Not one of the best Ruddy Yurts bootlegs tbh. Whoever recorded it placed the tape player far too close to their plate, and while the scraping of cutlery adds a nice counterpoint to the polyrhythms onstage it's very jarring during the stiller moments. (Amphetamine Wank Loop p.19 - Grey Browed Dawn.)


----------



## Gerry1time (Jun 8, 2019)

I just told the mrs about this, and she immediately said ‘God, that’s going to ruin the reputation of cocaine’.


----------



## andysays (Jun 8, 2019)

I'm pretty sure Gove wouldn't be the first resident of Number 10 to have had the occasional line...


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 8, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> which leadership hopeful will admit to smashing drugs next I wonder. Sajid Javid admitting to glue sniffing? Grayling smoked bannana skins?



I think we might see a series of confessions, all of them wanting to seem a little more with-it than "running through fields of wheat," but none of them willing to admit that they might have taken drugs and found it an enjoyable experience.

"In school they used to call me Penny Moredrugs. It was a troubled time."


----------



## FiFi (Jun 8, 2019)

“Journalist took  cocaine at parties in the 90s” must qualify as the least surprising headline this month!


----------



## Badgers (Jun 8, 2019)

Any word from George?


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 8, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> which leadership hopeful will admit to smashing drugs next I wonder. Sajid Javid admitting to glue sniffing? Grayling smoked bannana skins?



Leadsom - The Angel Dust years
Rees Mogg "Laudanum and sleeping draughts got me through the hell which was Michaelmas Term".


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 8, 2019)

Dominic Raab: I was known as "Main Acid Bro," and it was more than just an anagram.


----------



## Ponyutd (Jun 8, 2019)

Dominic Raab, Esther McVey, Boris Johnson Michael Gove, Jeremy Hunt.


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 8, 2019)

Kit Malthouse: They used to call me Ket Malthouse because I was getting stoned on ketamine so much. Once I took so much ketamine that I believed I could fly, but I sensibly decided to start my attempt from the ground. None of this is true, shall I just drop out of the race now?


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 8, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Leadsom - The Angel Dust years
> Rees Mogg "Laudanum and sleeping draughts got me through the hell which was Michaelmas Term".


----------



## elbows (Jun 8, 2019)

There is something amusing about the tory drug confession mini summary.

 

As for Gove, I never understand why nobody drags up clips of the wealth of awful comments that fell out of Goves mouth when he was involved with a tv program in the buildup to the Iraq war. One where he was acting 'for the prosecution case' against Saddam and repeatedly parroted all the discredited weapons stuff etc.


----------



## Yossarian (Jun 8, 2019)

> "I made a stupid mistake - I was at a wedding in a large community meeting and somebody passed round this pipe and I smoked it."



Rory Stewart looks like somebody who regularly has to excuse himself to visit a large community wedding in Iran.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 8, 2019)

Gove mad for gak


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 8, 2019)

cue a rush from all of these parasites to dump their drug experimentation stories in public to clear the decks for their careers. Its nauseating that none of these fuckers have actually said, yep, it was good fun when i did it and I dont regret it actually.


----------



## teqniq (Jun 8, 2019)

Hypocrites.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 8, 2019)

i was toying  nominating myself to stand for the brext party as a piece of situationist theatre- there isnt enough ink in the world to list my experimentation regrets


----------



## teqniq (Jun 8, 2019)




----------



## A380 (Jun 8, 2019)

Dogsauce said:


> Ashamed of drug use, but not apparently ashamed of being tories. Which one has destroyed more lives?


Aren’t they the same thing? The drug trade being just one of the most unregulated aspects of capitalism.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Jun 8, 2019)

'I regret taking cocaine' says man who looks like he spent the previous evening taking cocaine.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 8, 2019)

the problem is that admitting normal traits makes them come across as more human, more fallable. Its a digusting spiral of publicly spill yer guts, jazz up your story and appear human top trumping going on now


----------



## philosophical (Jun 8, 2019)

Gosh.
Will it be Esther Methvey next?


----------



## BryanLuc (Jun 8, 2019)

They love doing daring things, Theresa ran through a wheat field remember


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 8, 2019)

not-bono-ever said:


> the problem is that admitting normal traits makes them come across as more human, more fallable. Its a digusting spiral of publicly spill yer guts, jazz up your story and appear human top trumping going on now


I assumed he spilled cos somebody knew and better to spill than be spilled, rather than an attempt to humanise (!) himself


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 8, 2019)

the tory grandees already knew after he fessed up a couple of years back during the leadership scuffle after stage whispers from the hack community- he was advised to get this out to clear the decks


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I assumed he spilled cos somebody knew and better to spill than be spilled, rather than an attempt to humanise (!) himself



A book was about to come out about him that detailed this drug use. He had to own and control the story ahead of publication so as not to be ‘caught out’ and have to go on the defensive. He’s a media man and knows how these things work.


----------



## donkyboy (Jun 8, 2019)

i'm not ashmed of having snorted coh kah enah


----------



## tommers (Jun 8, 2019)

Leadsom has smoked cannabis apparently.

Clarke has necked speedballs in the early nineties.

Mordaunt "off my tits on meow meow between 2007 and 2009."


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 8, 2019)

Has anybody done Michael Gove running to Dillinger yet


----------



## BristolEcho (Jun 8, 2019)

Tbf if you were going to try just one currently illegal drug in your life and you chose coke you probably would look back at it full of regret.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Jun 8, 2019)




----------



## SpineyNorman (Jun 8, 2019)

I had him down as more of a jenkem man myself. That must be Rees mogg then.


----------



## stavros (Jun 8, 2019)

Didn't Johnson claim ages ago, possibly before he was Mayor, that he once tried snorting coke, but sneezed?


----------



## Dogsauce (Jun 9, 2019)

stavros said:


> Didn't Johnson claim ages ago, possibly before he was Mayor, that he once tried snorting coke, but sneezed?



Apparently when he was 19, says it might even have been icing sugar.

Think by account he’s actually more of a pisshead which is totally OK as far as the aging party membership goes, a kind of amiable Sir Les Patterson type.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jun 9, 2019)

Gove felt/remembers the regret of a cocaine binge, otherwise known as a memorable hangover..he needs to get the fuck in line with everyone else that has experience of coke.


----------



## Celyn (Jun 9, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> They love doing daring things, Theresa ran through a wheat field remember


That could be a veiled reference to ergot or derivatives thereof. Possibly. Nah, I haven't convinced myself.


----------



## Celyn (Jun 9, 2019)

SpineyNorman said:


> I had him down as more of a jenkem man myself. That must be Rees mogg then.


I had to Google "jenkem".  Wow.


----------



## tommers (Jun 9, 2019)

stavros said:


> Didn't Johnson claim ages ago, possibly before he was Mayor, that he once tried snorting coke, but sneezed?


Can't even do that right.


----------



## philosophical (Jun 9, 2019)

Gove hasn't said what the feeling felt like that made him a repeater, he hasn't said how he scored his stuff, or how much he paid.
He probably freeloaded on some other bugger who took all the risks.


----------



## Favelado (Jun 9, 2019)

Several times means dozens of times but it's a nice way of brushing aside multiple sightings of him shoving it up his Pob hole.


----------



## Benjy1992 (Jun 9, 2019)

Seems like the Tory leadership contest has descended into a 'who took drugs fest'? Only Javid of the leading candidates hasn't.

Dear oh dear. And they're running our country? God help us all.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jun 9, 2019)

philosophical said:


> Gove hasn't said what the feeling felt like that made him a repeater, he hasn't said how he scored his stuff, or how much he paid.
> He probably freeloaded on some other bugger who took all the risks.



I note from this article: Gove defends overseeing teacher drug bans that he hosted a party where it was taken. The host provides everything at posh parties, no? He's already admitted possession....


----------



## BryanLuc (Jun 9, 2019)

Gove squirmed when Andrew Marr pointed out that he had committed a criminal offence whilst pressing for tighter penalties on others who committed such an offence. 
If this drug fest confessional continues with all the contenders I await with bated breath to see if Lord Snooty enters the field, and what he will confess to


----------



## Celyn (Jun 9, 2019)

Laudanum


----------



## moochedit (Jun 9, 2019)

Celyn said:


> I had to Google "jenkem".  Wow.


----------



## Supine (Jun 9, 2019)

I liked watching him squirm when it was pointed out he must have selected never taken drugs when he applied for the esta us visa.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 9, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> which leadership hopeful will admit to smashing drugs next I wonder. Sajid Javid admitting to glue sniffing? Grayling smoked bannana skins?



Nope, Grayling is deffo on Angel Dust, and has been for the last 30 yrs. It's the only thing that explains his complete and utter brain-rotted ineptitude.

Esther McVey? Definitely a Vim-sniffer.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 9, 2019)

I regret taking cocaine, it makes me a loudmouth oaf and I end up guzzling vodka, one epic night 3 litres of the stuff with 1.5g’s. I shall probably regret taking cocaine at some point in the future too.

I have not regretted taking regretamine though, even when my world is caving in around me and I’m abusing that cheese cunt from Blur thinking he’s a taxi driver who’ll take me back to normality.

I regret that I don’t have an endless supply of MDMA, that would be the bollox.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 9, 2019)

What I'm wondering is which of them has injected coke into their knob?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 9, 2019)

Supine said:


> I liked watching him squirm when it was pointed out he must have selected never taken drugs when he applied for the esta us visa.



That’s an awesome angle to get the prick on* “You want to be PM, but as someone who has admitted lieing on an ESTA application you will be barred from entry to the United States, will that not be an impediment to being Prime Minister, or indeed any minister of the United Kingdom. Btw, Australia will also refuse you entry, Pob.”


* In fact it will nail all these wankers who are feeling the need to fess up


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2019)

"I can take cocaine and carry on with my job, but if a teacher does exactly the same, then they should be sacked."

Hypocritical devious piece of mendacious shitcuntbagsewagepopeface.


----------



## agricola (Jun 9, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> What I'm wondering is which of them has injected coke into their knob?



Grayling?  Though in his case that was an honest mistake as he was trying to inflate a bicycle tire.


----------



## neonwilderness (Jun 9, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That’s an awesome angle to get the prick on* “You want to be PM, but as someone who has admitted lieing on an ESTA application you will be barred from entry to the United States, will that not be an impediment to being Prime Minister, or indeed any minister of the United Kingdom. Btw, Australia will also refuse you entry, Pob.”
> 
> 
> * *In fact it will nail all these wankers who are feeling the need to fess up *



In theory, at least


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2019)

editor said:


> "I can take cocaine and carry on with my job, but if a teacher does exactly the same, then they should be sacked."
> 
> Hypocritical devious piece of mendacious shitcuntbagsewagepopeface.


popeface?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That’s an awesome angle to get the prick on* “You want to be PM, but as someone who has admitted lieing on an ESTA application you will be barred from entry to the United States, will that not be an impediment to being Prime Minister, or indeed any minister of the United Kingdom. Btw, Australia will also refuse you entry, Pob.”
> 
> 
> * In fact it will nail all these wankers who are feeling the need to fess up


We'll see a new poster on the travel to America thread shortly


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 9, 2019)

neonwilderness said:


> In theory, at least



US Customs and Border Protection asks travel agents to inform them of any miscreants heading their way, and whilst no grass, it’s my job, so what can I do?


----------



## Ponyutd (Jun 9, 2019)

BryanLuc said:


> Gove squirmed when Andrew Marr pointed out that he had committed a criminal offence whilst pressing for tighter penalties on others who committed such an offence.
> If this drug fest confessional continues with all the contenders I await with bated breath to see if Lord Snooty enters the field, and what he will confess to


He once sniffed snuff while interviewing nannies.


----------



## neonwilderness (Jun 9, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> US Customs and Border Protection asks travel agents to inform them of any miscreants heading their way, and whilst no grass, it’s my job, so what can I do?


I’m sure you can have a pass on grassing on this occasion


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2019)

Michael gove was an inveterate tester
Who did strange things with Swan vesta
One day in the street
He set fire to his feet
Vexed by the denial of his esta


----------



## binka (Jun 9, 2019)

Has anyone suggested mandatory drugs testing for all MPs yet like they have in the army?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 9, 2019)

CORBYN TESTS POSITIVE FOR HOME MADE JAM

- Fructose frolics for the high sugar socialist
- Suspected of intent to supply in the "produce exchange" black market, without paying tax


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2019)

binka said:


> Has anyone suggested mandatory drugs testing for all MPs yet like they have in the army?


They all ought to have drugs tested on them


----------



## Fez909 (Jun 9, 2019)

This sneezing thing seems to be being repeated a lot, but Johnson has actually admitted he took coke since

Johnson admits using cocaine as a teenager


----------



## vanya (Jun 9, 2019)

I wouldn't care about Gove snorting coke if he wasn't committed to jailing ordinary people for doing the same thing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 9, 2019)

A tory, Mike Gove, snorted coke
Which he thought was a bit of a joke 
But he turned chicken 
On the quayside at grytviken
And his trousers turned brown as an oak


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 9, 2019)

Celyn said:


> I had to Google "jenkem".  Wow.


Why Google it when the link is already there?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> popeface?



Some Pontiff-looking motherfucker with the big hat. 

Hmm, wouldn't that be Rees Mogg, not Gove?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> popeface?



Think he meant Pobface.


----------



## agricola (Jun 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> popeface?



Possibly a reference to Gregory XII's last words, which were reputedly "I have not understood the world, and the world has not understood me".  I'd imagine having a coke habit would induce similar confusion and would also get you fired (which is something else that happened to poor Gregory).


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jun 9, 2019)

Wtf, was he smuggling it or something


----------



## stavros (Jun 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Wtf, was he smuggling it or something



I think that's the first photo I've ever seen of Gove where he looks vaguely normal.


----------



## MrSki (Jun 9, 2019)




----------



## brogdale (Jun 9, 2019)

MrSki said:


>


That's it, innit?

Enjoyed watching Sayeeda Warsi attempting to sink Gove's candidacy on C4 News; I presume we'll see others that Gove made enemies of doing much the same.


----------



## agricola (Jun 9, 2019)

I'd love to know who the QC was who apparently said he had answered the questions on his ESTA application correctly:



> “I don’t believe that I’ve ever on any occasion failed to tell the truth about this when asked directly,” he said, when asked if he declared his past drug use to US authorities. The Electronic System for Travel Authorisation visa waiver form for entry into the US asks: “Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using or distributing illegal drugs?”
> 
> A spokesman later said Gove had taken legal advice from a QC who is “satisfied that Michael completed his forms correctly”.



... unless of course he actually admitted it on there.  One would think that would be unlikely, though it might provide an alternate reason as to how this has come out - after all, the official story as to how this came out (that he blurted it out to lackeys during a "what are your weaknesses" session in 2016) is almost as unlikely, and if the US provided the information to his enemies (Boris) it would sort of explain why Trump denied knowing who he was last week, which was kind of bizarre even by his standards, and why they've been so gung-ho for Boris.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 9, 2019)

.


----------



## greenfield (Jun 9, 2019)

Christ... It thought at the time it was a weird thing for Trump to say.... I guess that means he's done Boris a favour. Murky


----------



## Gerry1time (Jun 9, 2019)

binka said:


> Has anyone suggested mandatory drugs testing for all MPs yet like they have in the army?



I think the idea was floated sometime in the late 90's / early 2000's when new labour was trying to introduce drug law reform. The idea was laughed out of debate, as anyone who's spent time around Westminster will understand.


----------



## MrSki (Jun 9, 2019)

I don't think Ken Clarke is his biggest fan.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 9, 2019)

MrSki said:


> I don't think Ken Clarke is his biggest fan.



I suspect Clarke knew full-well the camera was running.


----------



## hash tag (Jun 10, 2019)

Gove; " I have seen the damage grugs can do".

Yep, we know what you mean, we can also see the damage they have done


----------



## Tankus (Jun 10, 2019)

Clark looks like he needs a sesh with the AA

Busy weekend


----------



## andysays (Jun 10, 2019)

hash tag said:


> Gove; " I have seen the damage grugs can do".
> 
> Yep, we know what you mean, we can also see the damage they have done


I saw the best minds of my generation destroyed by madness, starving hysterical naked etc


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 10, 2019)

agricola said:


> I'd love to know who the QC was who apparently said he had answered the questions on his ESTA application correctly:
> 
> 
> 
> ... unless of course he actually admitted it on there.  One would think that would be unlikely, though it might provide an alternate reason as to how this has come out - after all, the official story as to how this came out (that he blurted it out to lackeys during a "what are your weaknesses" session in 2016) is almost as unlikely, and if the US provided the information to his enemies (Boris) it would sort of explain why Trump denied knowing who he was last week, which was kind of bizarre even by his standards, and why they've been so gung-ho for Boris.



To apply for an ESTA (a visa waiver) you must answer this question:


Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using, or distributing illegal drugs?
If you answer Yes you will be denied an ESTA and will need to apply for a visa to enter the United States. If you are denied an ESTA on the grounds that you have taken drugs then a visa will only be granted if you are prepared to be drug-tested and a regular basis and submit the results to the US government.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jun 10, 2019)

I note he's been quoted as saying it's 'foolish' to suggest he might denied entry to the US as PM. Yes, ridiculous that you might be treated the same as everyone else, Mikey!


----------



## klang (Jun 10, 2019)

ruffneck23 said:


> .


do you really think Gove has reached the point of no return?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2019)

binka said:


> Has anyone suggested mandatory drugs testing for all MPs yet like they have in the army?



I'd certainly be in favour of it for tories. Esp hypocritical tories (most of them). They might claim it infringes on their (in)human rights, but fuck 'em.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 10, 2019)

littleseb said:


> do you really think Gove has reached the point of no return?




 , to be honest I'm not really sure of anything anymore when it comes this lot anymore


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2019)

ruffneck23 said:


> , to be honest I'm not really sure of anything anymore when it comes this lot anymore


the one thing that is certain is that the strangest thing is yet to happen


----------



## agricola (Jun 10, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> To apply for an ESTA (a visa waiver) you must answer this question:
> 
> 
> Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using, or distributing illegal drugs?
> If you answer Yes you will be denied an ESTA and will need to apply for a visa to enter the United States. If you are denied an ESTA on the grounds that you have taken drugs then a visa will only be granted if you are prepared to be drug-tested and a regular basis and submit the results to the US government.



I know, which is why his statement (that he had complied with the form) can only really be read as him having recorded it on there, unless it is the sort of idiotic lie that could destroy his political career.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 10, 2019)

agricola said:


> I know, which is why his statement (that he had complied with the form) can only really be read as him having recorded it on there, unless it is the sort of idiotic lie that could destroy his political career.


What kind of idiot would tell the truth on that form, though? 

Can't see any way out of this without Gove as an idiot, tbh.


----------



## agricola (Jun 10, 2019)

littlebabyjesus said:


> What kind of idiot would tell the truth on that form, though?
> 
> Can't see any way out of this without Gove as an idiot, tbh.



He might have had to, if he'd admitted it when he was vetted - saying two different things would probably have flagged up on someone's radar.  He might even have told the truth on the form as a laugh, knowing that he was going over there to interview Trump.  

I mean, it is an absurd idea that he would just write "yes" when asked if he has violated any law related to possessing, using or distributing illegal drugs on that form - but is it any less of an absurd idea that he would just blurt the same answer out to a load of larval Tory politicians?  It isn't as if they are known for being loyal individuals that would never think of using that for their own advantage later on.


----------



## stavros (Jun 10, 2019)

Siobhan Kennedy on C4 News, regarding Gove's economic pledges:

"These are funds not to be sniffed at."


----------



## Part 2 (Jun 10, 2019)




----------



## Ming (Jun 10, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> To apply for an ESTA (a visa waiver) you must answer this question:
> 
> 
> Have you ever violated any law related to possessing, using, or distributing illegal drugs?
> If you answer Yes you will be denied an ESTA and will need to apply for a visa to enter the United States. If you are denied an ESTA on the grounds that you have taken drugs then a visa will only be granted if you are prepared to be drug-tested and a regular basis and submit the results to the US government.


This infuriates me. We have laws. And they are blatantly not being applied equally. Out in the open. Not behind closed doors (i’m pro-legalization BTW).


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 10, 2019)

is this the first time you've noticed how skewed the judicial system is in its protection of the powerful and thumb screws for the weak?


----------



## Ming (Jun 10, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> is this the first time you've noticed how skewed the judicial system is in its protection of the powerful and thumb screws for the weak?


I know what you mean. But this is on the front page of every fucking newspaper and all over the media in general. It’s how blatant it is.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 10, 2019)

Ming said:


> I know what you mean. But this is on the front page of every fucking newspaper and all over the media in general. It’s how blatant it is.


The good bit is that this is only being raised as an issue du jour to fuck gove's leadership bid. Its completely unserious hoo-haaing about drugs from shitheads which will be forgotten as soon as the next dark lord is crowned (my money is still on Darth Sajid). I mean I do joy in Gove's misfortune here, but as a display of the bullshit in full flow...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 10, 2019)

Has Javid made any stupid promises yet? Not heard any. Just getting stuck in to 'middle class drug use'. As one of the drug-free three and Home Sec, that's all he has to do at the moment, and he's not even exceeding his ministerial brief.


----------



## Ming (Jun 10, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> The good bit is that this is only being raised as an issue du jour to fuck gove's leadership bid. Its completely unserious hoo-haaing about drugs from shitheads which will be forgotten as soon as the next dark lord is crowned (my money is still on Darth Sajid). I mean I do joy in Gove's misfortune here, but as a display of the bullshit in full flow...


The thing is he’ll never be leader because he genuinely does look like Pob. I know it’s inappropriate to judge on appearances but these are the facts m’lud.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 10, 2019)

Ming said:


> The thing is he’ll never be leader because he genuinely does look like Pob. I know it’s inappropriate to judge on appearances but these are the facts m’lud.


Trump looks like a giant orange baby. Hasn't hurt him.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 11, 2019)

i thought gove had to fess up about the coke because it was about to come out anyway?


----------



## Supine (Jun 11, 2019)

Kaka Tim said:


> i thought gove had to fess up about the coke because it was about to come out anyway?



Johnson probably grassed him up


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jun 11, 2019)

Ming said:


> I know what you mean. But this is on the front page of every fucking newspaper and all over the media in general. It’s how blatant it is.



A very famous model was denied a US visa after she was pictured with her nose close to a suspicious white powder. She made no comment on it but was refused entry to the US. I am led to believe that she is now teetotal in all areas and has now been granted the visa, after a period of drug and alcohol testing.


----------



## extra dry (Jun 11, 2019)

I hear mcvyie took shooms.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2019)

i was looking in michael gove's phone
when a number flashed up 'dealer (home)'
i answered, feeling bold,
and was very clearly told
unless debt cleared he'd break all gove's bones


----------



## BryanLuc (Jun 11, 2019)

I hope it rebounds and he is out on the first ballot


----------



## teqniq (Jun 11, 2019)




----------



## Poi E (Jun 14, 2019)

here he is sucking up to rural idiots by allowing shooting of canada geese, rooks, crows etc.

Natural England forced into shooting licence u-turn after government reinstates original system

I notice the risibly named "countryside". England's been fucked up for so long by by poshos that all you have left is a large lawn with a few tenant farmers.


----------



## ska invita (Jun 14, 2019)

Poi E said:


> here he is sucking up to rural idiots by allowing shooting of canada geese, rooks, crows etc.
> 
> Natural England forced into shooting licence u-turn after government reinstates original system
> 
> I notice the risibly named "countryside". England's been fucked up for so long by by poshos that all you have left is a large lawn with a few tenant farmers.


good news for Athos


----------



## Athos (Jun 14, 2019)

ska invita said:


> good news for Athos



Thanks for the thought, but I'd never stopped.  However, many had, which led to a spike in crow numbers,  which meant I came across three lambs with eyes packed out.  Also there's been a marked reduction in biodiversity of bird life, as songbirds' nests have been decimated.  #thankstowellmeaningidiots


----------



## Poi E (Jun 14, 2019)

Songbird decline not due to habitat loss, per chance?


----------



## Athos (Jun 14, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Songbird decline not due to habitat loss, per chance?



In a month?


----------



## Poi E (Jun 14, 2019)

What's the source for that?


----------



## Athos (Jun 14, 2019)

Poi E said:


> What's the source for that?



Being in the countryside, and seeing corvids decimate nests (and attack lambs).  And consequently relatively few songbirds.


----------



## Sprocket. (Jun 14, 2019)

Athos said:


> Being in the countryside, and seeing corvids decimate nests (and attack lambs).  And consequently relatively few songbirds.



Recently me and the dogs have spent hours attempting to scare a flock of Magpies away from the Blackbird and Finch nests in the trees in the garden.
They are tenacious bastards and I fear eggs and chicks have been lost.


----------



## Athos (Jun 14, 2019)

Obvious rolleyes at the source, but there's some more here: 

Britain's rarest birds are being put at risk by Natural England decision to revoke shooting licences, farmers warn


----------



## Poi E (Jun 14, 2019)

UK Bird Population | Is The Number of Birds in Decline? - The RSPB
Farmers and fisherman are not ecologists. Never, ever ask them about environmental matters.

Anyway, diversion and whilst corvids may have an impact, farming is worse.


----------



## Athos (Jun 16, 2019)

Poi E said:


> UK Bird Population | Is The Number of Birds in Decline? - The RSPB
> Farmers and fisherman are not ecologists. Never, ever ask them about environmental matters.
> 
> Anyway, diversion and whilst corvids may have an impact, farming is worse.



Did you read my link?  There were ecologists and conservationists talking about the negative effects for birds of NE's General License shambles.  I don't when your RSPB link is from, and whether it addresses those events of this past month.  Or whether you'd realised that the RSPB uses the General Licenses to kill some birds, in order to protect others?


----------



## stavros (Jun 17, 2019)

It was quite jaw-dropping last night for him to claim that he'd made a success of the education portfolio. I know Tory-voting teachers who think he's awful, and Cameron was smart to take the brief off him before the 2015 GE.


----------



## Poi E (Jun 18, 2019)

Athos said:


> Did you read my link?  There were ecologists and conservationists talking about the negative effects for birds of NE's General License shambles.  I don't when your RSPB link is from, and whether it addresses those events of this past month.  Or whether you'd realised that the RSPB uses the General Licenses to kill some birds, in order to protect others?



Environmental article in a climate change denying paper? Nope. Batshit stuff.

How about this: Magpie Effect on Songbirds - The RSPB


----------



## Athos (Jun 18, 2019)

Poi E said:


> Environmental article in a climate change denying paper? Nope. Batshit stuff.
> 
> How about this: Magpie Effect on Songbirds - The RSPB



None of your links seem to address the very recent changes.


----------



## MrSki (Jun 20, 2019)

Sorry if it has been done before.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 20, 2019)

I only just noticed that Gove is Scottish.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I only just noticed that Gove is Scottish.


A mere 9 years 1 month and 3 days after you first mentioned him here


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> A mere 9 years 1 month and 3 days after you first mentioned him here



Great now I have to go back and find that post. Thanks.

e2a: Turns out I said 'I know nothing about Michael Gove' so at least I was honest from the get-go.


----------



## scifisam (Jun 20, 2019)

Athos said:


> Being in the countryside, and seeing corvids decimate nests (and attack lambs).  And consequently relatively few songbirds.



I love crows, TBH. Clever birds.

But nobody who looks at the world around us could reasonably deny that their numbers have increased hugely over the years. (The RSPB agrees: Crows! Population boom - Wildlife questions - Wildlife - The RSPB Community)

Be a bit weird if an increase in a species that eats other birds and their eggs didn't lead to a decrease in their prey species.


----------



## Athos (Jun 20, 2019)

scifisam said:


> I love crows, TBH. Clever birds.
> 
> But nobody who looks at the world around us could reasonably deny that their numbers have increased hugely over the years. (The RSPB agrees: Crows! Population boom - Wildlife questions - Wildlife - The RSPB Community)
> 
> Be a bit weird if an increase in a species that eats other birds and their eggs didn't lead to a decrease in their prey species.



Yeah, and then to not be  able to control them at all during this crucial period is nuts.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 20, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Great now I have to go back and find that post. Thanks.
> 
> e2a: Turns out I said 'I know nothing about Michael Gove' so at least I was honest from the get-go.


Yeh you still know very little about him


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 20, 2019)

scifisam said:


> I love crows, TBH. Clever birds.
> 
> But nobody who looks at the world around us could reasonably deny that their numbers have increased hugely over the years. (The RSPB agrees: Crows! Population boom - Wildlife questions - Wildlife - The RSPB Community)
> 
> Be a bit weird if an increase in a species that eats other birds and their eggs didn't lead to a decrease in their prey species.


They're clever. They've watched us taking over the world, and now they want a piece of it.


----------



## Duncan2 (Jun 20, 2019)

Athos said:


> Yeah, and then to not be  able to control them at all during this crucial period is nuts.


seems like Carrion crow is a bit of a misnomer then.What a carry on.


----------



## scifisam (Jun 20, 2019)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They're clever. They've watched us taking over the world, and now they want a piece of it.



And we all thought the bees would be the next major species!


----------



## MrSki (Sep 26, 2019)

Looks a bit unsteady on his feet here.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 26, 2019)

He's clearly fucked.

They should introduce mandatory drug testing in the house.


----------



## 19sixtysix (Sep 26, 2019)

Look at Bercow sitting as far away as possible from this intoxicated arsehole.


----------



## MrSki (Sep 27, 2019)




----------



## Ming (Sep 27, 2019)

MrSki said:


>



Gacked to the nines. Do you remember Osborne looking off his nut on the front bench? Age of the cokehead. Nothing against recreationals generally if you can handle them but not if you’re in a national leadership position. Can cloud the judgement.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Sep 27, 2019)

Tbh, and I'm not arsed cos it's Michael Gove so fuck him, but I think he's just a bit awkward and physically different, maybe dyspraxic or something, like with the hand clapping video


----------



## stavros (Sep 27, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> e2a: Turns out I said 'I know nothing about Michael Gove' so at least I was honest from the get-go.



It's a state we all wish we were in.


----------



## MrSki (Sep 27, 2019)

Whether it is Snorbitz, drink or both seems to be the discussion on twatter.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 28, 2019)

Looks very much like someone pissed out of his head. Just needs to be trying and failing to roll a fag whilst gripping a carrier bag full of frosty jack for the complete street drinker effect


----------



## brogdale (Sep 29, 2019)

Go[v]ebbels


----------



## stavros (Mar 31, 2020)

Gove on Andrew Marr on Sunday:

"I went out for a run, and people were maintaining their distance."


----------



## chilango (May 5, 2020)

Nobody commenting on his bookshelves?

They appear to go a bit darker than the Bell Curve and Irving if Libcom's Twitter is anything to go by...

de Benoist ffs.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 5, 2020)

Yeah, it’s a pretty damn racist bookshelf.


----------



## stavros (May 5, 2020)

They might be Sarah's, although she possibly only owns books about herself that she's written.


----------



## little_legs (May 5, 2020)




----------



## brogdale (May 26, 2020)

Piss-holes in the snow peepers, inflated nose and the hue of a beetroot...Pob's obviouslybeen looking after himself in 'lockdown'


----------



## phillm (May 26, 2020)

best ever bullshit interview


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2020)

Fury as podcast host says he'd 'kick Michael Gove in front of his kids'
					

The funnyman has co-hosted Athletico Mince since 2016; The show has had millions of listeners




					www.chroniclelive.co.uk
				




"

Mr Dawson, who had over 50k followers, tweeted that had he would "pay hard cash to chase the f***** down the street and boot" his testicles".


The tweet, sent directly to the former Education Secretary's wife Sarah Vine, added it would happen "definitely in front of your kids".


----------



## stavros (May 29, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> Fury as podcast host says he'd 'kick Michael Gove in front of his kids'
> 
> 
> The funnyman has co-hosted Athletico Mince since 2016; The show has had millions of listeners
> ...



That's just horrific, and quite sickening... 

They've been allowed to breed?!


----------



## Yossarian (May 29, 2020)

stavros said:


> That's just horrific, and quite sickening...
> 
> They've been allowed to breed?!



It's utterly shameful - why should this man have to pay "hard cash" to perform a public service?


----------



## phillm (May 29, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> Fury as podcast host says he'd 'kick Michael Gove in front of his kids'
> 
> 
> The funnyman has co-hosted Athletico Mince since 2016; The show has had millions of listeners
> ...



has the flan man retired ?


----------



## not-bono-ever (May 29, 2020)

just his twitter account. retired from twitter to spend more time with his blue pop


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2020)

Did Pob inherit Damian Green's laptop?


----------



## Ground Elder (May 30, 2020)

Quick look over there!


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 30, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> Fury as podcast host says he'd 'kick Michael Gove in front of his kids'
> 
> 
> The funnyman has co-hosted Athletico Mince since 2016; The show has had millions of listeners
> ...


Sarah Vine and the _Mail_ are doing much as you might imagine - sniffing out teachers with opinions and _lefties_:









						Michael Gove's family targeted on Twitter
					

Podcast host and former Daily Mirror and Guardian journalist Andy Dawson was questioned by officers over an aggressively foul-mouthed tweet he sent to Mr Gove's wife Sarah Vine.




					www.dailymail.co.uk
				




The “third” person, whom the _Mail_ bodyswerves away from mentioning by name, is journalist Mic Wright, whom Vine rather fatuously smeared.


----------



## killer b (May 30, 2020)

Seem to recall Andy Dawson being a particularly vile centrist dad in the early years of the Corbyn wars. Total gobshite.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 30, 2020)

killer b said:


> Seem to recall Andy Dawson being a particularly vile centrist dad in the early years of the Corbyn wars. Total gobshite.


Yeah, before Corbyn I remember him. "Profanity Swan". Part of a bunch of similar "comedians" who'd tweet bollocks, get pelters then sic their mates/followers on people.


----------



## Favelado (May 31, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Yeah, before Corbyn I remember him. "Profanity Swan". Part of a bunch of similar "comedians" who'd tweet bollocks, get pelters then sic their mates/followers on people.



He does a Corbyn skit on Athletico Mince. Bob Mortimer is funny. He isn't - everyone who listens to the pod knows it, and just puts up with Dawson because Mortimer needs someone, anyone, to bounce off.


----------



## editor (Aug 2, 2020)

His wife is a piece of shit too


----------



## editor (Aug 2, 2020)

Slap!


----------



## brogdale (Aug 5, 2020)

Quality.


----------



## brogdale (May 28, 2021)

OK...a 3 beers in, Friday afternoon post, but........


----------



## Sue (May 28, 2021)

brogdale said:


> OK...a 3 beers in, Friday afternoon post, but........
> 
> View attachment 270652


Two glasses of wine in...


----------



## brogdale (May 28, 2021)

More (semi) serious point; he's very low-key atm, isn't he?


----------



## quiet guy (May 28, 2021)

It's like an early version of Chris Evans


----------



## Sue (May 28, 2021)

brogdale said:


> More (semi) serious point; he's very low-key atm, isn't he?


Keeping a lowish profile while malevolently plotting and scheming behind the scenes? Yeah.


----------



## vanya (May 28, 2021)

I fear Gove may move in when Johnson eventually falls.  Don't like Gove but he's a man of some ability unlike many of the others.


----------



## hash tag (May 28, 2021)

My vote is for Ms Patel if Johnson goes. What's not to like.


----------



## quiet guy (May 28, 2021)

vanya said:


> I fear Gove may move in when Johnson eventually falls.  Don't like Gove but he's a man of some ability unlike many of the others.


It'll be the bonfire of the vanities with the biggest oiliest shit getting the position after Johnson.


----------



## stavros (May 28, 2021)

brogdale said:


> OK...a 3 beers in, Friday afternoon post, but........
> 
> View attachment 270652



You give Gove a bad name.


----------



## not a trot (May 28, 2021)

stavros said:


> You give Gove a bad name.


Wanted, dead or alive. Preferably dead.


----------



## Sue (May 28, 2021)

stavros said:


> You give Gove a bad name.


Definitely works better in the written than the spoken but .


----------



## hash tag (May 28, 2021)

Between Gove & Hate? (Strokes)


----------



## isvicthere? (May 31, 2021)

brogdale said:


> More (semi) serious point; he's very low-key atm, isn't he?



Wasn't mentioned at all by Cummings in his spectacularly hypocritical 7-hour rant.


----------



## Badgers (May 31, 2021)

isvicthere? said:


> Wasn't mentioned at all by Cummings in his spectacularly hypocritical 7-hour rant.


Shocker  

Cummings and Murdoch are setting him up as our latest Disgraced Prime Minister.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 31, 2021)

Goverlooked


----------



## brogdale (May 31, 2021)

isvicthere? said:


> Wasn't mentioned at all by Cummings in his spectacularly hypocritical 7-hour rant.


My (hazy) recollection is that towards the end of the second session Cummings was asked directly about any Gove involvement in the covid preparation debacle and Cummings just brazened it out saying he'd had nothing to do with anything.


----------



## isvicthere? (May 31, 2021)

brogdale said:


> My (hazy) recollection is that towards the end of the second session Cummings was asked directly about any Gove involvement in the covid preparation debacle and Cummings just brazened it out saying he'd had nothing to do with anything.



Sorry, you're right. What l meant was Cummings didn't slag Gove off.


----------



## stavros (May 31, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Shocker
> 
> Cummings and Murdoch are setting him up as our latest Disgraced Prime Minister.



Does anyone like Gove though, including amongst Tory voters?


----------



## MrSki (May 31, 2021)

stavros said:


> Does anyone like Gove though, including amongst Tory voters?


I expect his coke dealer has a soft spot for him.


----------



## stavros (Jun 12, 2021)




----------



## gosub (Jun 12, 2021)




----------



## Serene (Jun 13, 2021)

I assume this is Goblin Gove dressed as a Clanger. If so it is apt as he is a man on the moon.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 13, 2021)

MrSki said:


> I expect his coke dealer has a soft spot for him.


A shallow grave I hope


----------



## gosub (Jun 13, 2021)

Serene said:


> I assume this is Goblin Gove dressed as a Clanger. If so it is apt as he is a man on the moon.


Do you not remember pob?


----------



## Serene (Jun 13, 2021)

I have vaguely heard of Pob. Looking at the Puppet, he does have a likeness to Gove.


----------



## Serene (Jun 13, 2021)

Has anyone seen Gove have one of his freeze-frames in the Commons lately? He freezes still as if time has stood still for about 2 minutes while everyone else keeps moving.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 27, 2021)

Mic Wright on Hancock and Gove









						Uncandid Camera and Gove Us A Clue: The Hancock affair has now shifted to the stories behind the story
					

A daring Diane Abbott tweet, questions about the camera that caught that 'steamy clinch', and Hancock's off-the-books Gmail account...




					brokenbottleboy.substack.com


----------



## gosub (Jun 28, 2021)




----------



## gosub (Jun 30, 2021)

Law-breaker Michael Gove dodges questions over 'misusing public funds' during COVID crisis
					

'I’m sorry that minister Gove wasn’t here to take questions because most of them are named for him.'




					uk.news.yahoo.com


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 2, 2021)

It’s as if mr gove is shacked  up with an aide but doesn’t want to go public until he is out of politics. Imagine covering for a partner to safeguard their career. Shit priorities bro


----------



## agricola (Jul 2, 2021)

Michael Gove and Sarah Vine to divorce after ‘drifting apart’
					

Minister and journalist say they will continue to support their two children and ‘remain close friends’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Winot (Jul 2, 2021)

Rumours are he’s gay.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 2, 2021)

Winot said:


> Rumours are he’s gay.


Would not be an issue unless he is doing a Phillip Schofield lie.

Regardless, I hope they both die alone


----------



## agricola (Jul 2, 2021)

Winot said:


> Rumours are he’s gay.



there are alternative things to believe:






(from popbitch)


----------



## strung out (Jul 2, 2021)

She knew


----------



## wtfftw (Jul 2, 2021)

Text from a friend after Hancock. Dunno what publication Vine writes for.



> This made me laugh as it's Gove's wife -
> SARAH VINE: The problem with the wife who's been with you for ever is that she knows you're not the Master of the Universe you purport to be


----------



## teqniq (Jul 2, 2021)




----------



## brogdale (Jul 2, 2021)

wtfftw said:


> Text from a friend after Hancock. Dunno what publication Vine writes for.


NLR?


----------



## Poot (Jul 2, 2021)

Sarah Vine has asked for privacy at this difficult time. 

I'll run that by you again: a Daily Mail columnist has asked for privacy at this difficult time.


----------



## agricola (Jul 2, 2021)

Poot said:


> Sarah Vine has asked for privacy at this difficult time.
> 
> I'll run that by you again: a Daily Mail columnist has asked for privacy at this difficult time.



no doubt she'll get it too - no hordes of photographers outside her house, no bins rummaged through


----------



## teqniq (Jul 2, 2021)

wtfftw said:


> Text from a friend after Hancock. Dunno what publication Vine writes for.


I think that was in the Fail.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jul 2, 2021)

You are all being very beastly, and I for one wish them well on setting off on the tricky journey from being a couple of cunts to just a pair of cunts.


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2021)

Is there a joke to be found in there somewhere about Gwyneth Paltrow writing an article for them about cuntious decoupling?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 2, 2021)

elbows said:


> Is there a joke to be found in there somewhere about Gwyneth Paltrow writing an article for them about cuntious decoupling?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 2, 2021)

Oops. Didn't mean to quote you elbows


----------



## Argonia (Jul 2, 2021)

Calamity1971 said:


>



Nearly just spilled my orange juice all over myself at that one


----------



## bemused (Jul 2, 2021)

I love how Sarah Vine has the cheek to ask people to respect their privacy at this time.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 2, 2021)

bemused said:


> I love how Sarah Vine has the cheek to ask people to respect their privacy at this time.


I wonder if she will now be making her dinners in a 'forlorn little kitchen'





__





						Sarah Vine - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## colacubes (Jul 2, 2021)

She’s an awful human, but criticise her about her articles, not her looks ffs.


----------



## stavros (Jul 2, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Would not be an issue unless he is doing a Phillip Schofield lie.


One made his name being upstaged by a scruffy puppet, whereas the other...


----------



## Argonia (Jul 2, 2021)

colacubes said:


> She’s an awful human, but criticise her about her articles, not her looks ffs.


I had a mate who said the same about Ann Widdecombe and could see his point


----------



## colacubes (Jul 2, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I had a mate who said the same about Ann Widdecombe and could see his point


Good. Cos it’s an entirely reasonable position. Especially when it’s women who usually get judged on how they look.


----------



## MrSki (Jul 2, 2021)




----------



## MrSki (Jul 2, 2021)




----------



## Raheem (Jul 2, 2021)

I'm a bit sad about this, because I had been hoping that Michael Gove would separate.


----------



## MrSki (Jul 2, 2021)




----------



## kenny g (Jul 2, 2021)

colacubes said:


> She’s an awful human, but criticise her about her articles, not her looks ffs.


But I have never seen her articles. If they are anything like her face they have turned to a pudding of shite. Her writings for the Daily Fail are shit as well.


----------



## elbows (Jul 2, 2021)




----------



## colacubes (Jul 2, 2021)

kenny g said:


> But I have never seen her articles. If they are anything like her face they have turned to a pudding of shite. Her writings for the Daily Fail are shit as well.


Well you have seen her articles then as you note her writings for the Mail are shit. Which they are. But criticising someone for their looks is out of order. Even if they are a hateful arsehole.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 3, 2021)




----------



## Argonia (Jul 3, 2021)

Badgers said:


>



Good one Badgers.



			https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/03064229708536247?journalCode=rioc20


----------



## strung out (Jul 3, 2021)

My husband’s ‘gay affair’ with Gove
					

A few weeks ago I discovered that while he should have been focused on the fight of his life during the referendum campaign, David Cameron was instead obsessing over whether or not his justice secretary, Michael Gove, had had an affair with my husband, Dom Cummings, campaign director of Vote...




					www.spectator.co.uk


----------



## Argonia (Jul 3, 2021)

strung out said:


> My husband’s ‘gay affair’ with Gove
> 
> 
> A few weeks ago I discovered that while he should have been focused on the fight of his life during the referendum campaign, David Cameron was instead obsessing over whether or not his justice secretary, Michael Gove, had had an affair with my husband, Dom Cummings, campaign director of Vote...
> ...


WOW


strung out said:


> View attachment 276558


----------



## brogdale (Jul 3, 2021)

Probs best to read the whole Speccie piece.


----------



## strung out (Jul 3, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Probs best to read the whole Speccie piece.


Why bother when the headline and first paragraph gives you all the entertainment you need?


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 3, 2021)

CWS remix with added gove ..


----------



## marty21 (Jul 3, 2021)

colacubes said:


> She’s an awful human, but criticise her about her articles, not her looks ffs.


This ^^^


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 3, 2021)

I'm glad I wasn't eating when I read that headline. The thought of Gove and Cummings...  🤢


----------



## Argonia (Jul 3, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> I'm glad I wasn't eating when I read that headline. The thought of Gove and Cummings...  🤢


I relayed the information to my right wing mother and she just said "Hope not, spare me the details"


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 3, 2021)

marty21 said:


> This ^^^


No one is criticising her looks. The thread as I read it was on her having a similar hairstyle to Noel Fielding. I'm the last person who'd body shame any female.
Maybe the original author of that piece should have said Sarah and ' POB ' have split for the Lols.
Having been compared to Jerry sadowitz ( which still amuses)  I'd happily take the androgynous Noel as a compliment . Anyway, Mrs and Mrs Gove are equally vile and maybe we should get back to that, or not ? Either way I cba .
If anyone wishes me to delete the picture I will.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 3, 2021)

Calamity1971 said:


> No one is criticising her looks. The thread as I read it was on her having a similar hairstyle to Noel Fielding. I'm the last person who'd body shame any female.
> Maybe the original author of that piece should have said Sarah and ' POB ' have split for the Lols.
> Having been compared to Jerry sadowitz ( which still amuses)  I'd happily take the androgynous Noel as a compliment . Anyway, Mrs and Mrs Gove are equally vile and maybe we should get back to that, or not ? Either way I cba .
> If anyone wishes me to delete the picture I will.


oh come on, people were criticising her looks, it's obvious, happens all the time to women in public eye


----------



## Calamity1971 (Jul 3, 2021)

ddraig said:


> oh come on, people were criticising her looks, it's obvious, happens all the time to women in public eye


I know it does, and not just in the public eye. Being a woman I know only too well. 
Like I said , if you and others wish to me delete I will.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 3, 2021)

strung out said:


> My husband’s ‘gay affair’ with Gove
> 
> 
> A few weeks ago I discovered that while he should have been focused on the fight of his life during the referendum campaign, David Cameron was instead obsessing over whether or not his justice secretary, Michael Gove, had had an affair with my husband, Dom Cummings, campaign director of Vote...
> ...


Let's not forget she has a history of writing articles about her personal life that are partly made up (eg her experience of self-isolating in her London flat).


----------



## Argonia (Jul 3, 2021)

I have mixed feelings about this. I agree with the view that we should criticise her views and not her appearance, that's fair enough. But equally calling her Noel Fielding is a satire on the powerful like calling the Queen a lizard - an act of the power of the powerless as Vaclav Havel might have put it. So generally on the side of not talking about how she looks but can see the other point of view.


----------



## elbows (Jul 3, 2021)




----------



## teqniq (Jul 3, 2021)

'Newspapers are not meant to be nice, they\re meant to be informative'

Oh really? Is that what you call it?

Arsehole.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 3, 2021)

elbows said:


>



There's being fucking scum and then there's being proud of being fucking scum.


----------



## bemused (Jul 3, 2021)

colacubes said:


> She’s an awful human, but criticise her about her articles, not her looks ffs.


She's an awful human that criticises people about their looks for money.


----------



## elbows (Jul 3, 2021)

Well there were good reasons they were pigs in Spitting Image.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 3, 2021)

elbows said:


>



That's a pretty vile performance, although there's an argument that says we don't have to stoop to her level. But, FWIW, I didn't see Calamity1971's post as unreasonable - she compared Sarah Vine to Noel Fielding, it's not like she called her...oh, say, an "alien".


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 3, 2021)

Going by that article she's not above fat-shaming either. Funny how she begs for privacy now, doesn't look like she gave many other people that.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 3, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Going by that article she's not above fat-shaming either. Funny how she begs for privacy now, doesn't look like she gave many other people that.


Let's face it, we could call her a hypocrite without any fear of contradiction...


----------



## Argonia (Jul 3, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Let's face it, we could call her a hypocrite without any fear of contradiction...


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

Gove is getting divorced for no apparent reason.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Serene said:


> Gove is getting divorced for no apparent reason.


I wonder if the Pope will grant him it or maybe it will lead to the foundation of the Church of England.


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

Argonia said:


> I wonder if the Pope will grant him it or maybe it will lead to the foundation of the Church of England.


The Pope wont grant Gove anything, as Gove was created below. Hell is empty, all the Devils are here!


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Serene said:


> The Pope wont grant Gove anything, as Gove was created below. Hell is empty, all the Devils are here!


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Serene said:


> The Pope wont grant Gove anything, as Gove was created below. Hell is empty, all the Devils are here!


----------



## brogdale (Jul 5, 2021)

Many will recall that in 2012, as the then Secretary of State for Education, Gove decided that £370k would be spent sending a copy of the King James bible to every school.





So, at this very sad time for Gove and his soon to be former spouse, it seems appropriate to look to the KJB for solace or words of wisdom relating to the unfolding events.

At quick search reveals there to be only one reference to divorce in the whole text, in Jeremiah 3:8:




Hmmm..."*evil things*", "*backsliding*", "*playing the harlot*", "*treachery*" and "*adultery*"; not sure whether or not those words will comfort Gove, but I'm sure they might help us all to understand his plight?


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

Argonia said:


>




Resident Evil 7 was set in Michael Goves house. Have you got a link to that also?


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Serene said:


> Resident Evil 7 was set in Michael Goves house. Have you got a link to that also?


No link; was it really?


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Many will recall that in 2012, as the then Secretary of State for Education, Gove decided that £370k would be spent sending a copy of the King James bible to every school.
> 
> View attachment 277024
> 
> ...


King James was known as the 'wisest fool in Christendom'


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

Gove said that he doubts that the Soviet Union defeated the Nazis on the Eastern Front in World War Two during Barbarossa and that it is clearly false, because they were Communists and only a nation built on free-market principles with privatised utilities could be successful.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Serene said:


> Gove said that he doubts that the Soviet Union defeated the Nazis on the Eastern Front and that it is clearly false, because they were Communists and only a nation built on free-market principles with privatised utilities could be successful.


Where did he say that utter nonsense?


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Where did he say that utter nonsense?


Are you a Gove supporter?


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Serene said:


> Are you a Gove supporter?


What?


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

Argonia said:


> What?


Do you like Goves policies? Are you a Tory supporter?


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Serene said:


> Do you like Goves policies? Are you a Tory supporter?


Of course I'm fucking not!


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Of course I'm fucking not!


Thank you. I am only asking as I didnt know. Your last response was amusing, thank you.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Serene said:


> Thank you. I am only asking as I didnt know. Your last response was amusing, thank you.


His British Values curriculum in education was one of the worst tyrannical loads of nonsense imposed on teachers in human history. The poor old teachers were forced to tell their students we live in a democracy with the rule of law when we live in no such thing. I thought about teaching history in a secondary school but took one look at the curriculum and realised I would rather clean up vomit and hafl-digested drugs in a ropey nightclub in Romford than do the job,


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

There possibly isnt any Gove supporters in Britain. Gove only remained in the Cabinet after the last reshuffle to punish Britain. He was left there as a warning to us that someone in the Government hates us.


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

It all reminds me of Maximillien Robespierre. I mean how it came about.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Serene said:


> It all reminds me of Maximillien Robespierre. I mean how it came about.


Vaclav Havel better. A Republic with elections without bloodshed.









						Velvet Revolution - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				






			Vaclav Havel - Google Search


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Vaclav Havel better. A Republic with elections without bloodshed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I am not totally au fais with the Czech Revolution. I was thinking of Robespiere from when he was looking forward to reading a speech out to the King when Robespiere was very young, and when the day arrived, it was pouring down with rain and he got soaked waiting for the King to arrive. When the King arrived, Robespiere read it out and the King didnt even bother to look out of his carriage at him, and simply had the carriage drive on after it. Robespiere remembered that for the rest of his life.


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

Gove compared the British Crusades to the Salvation Army. He said that they were primarily an outreach group rather like the Salvation Army which delivered imroving leaflets to the middle east and created the superb reputation that we have in the area to this day.


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

OK I made that up.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Serene said:


> OK I made that up.


Make up more lies about Gove and spread them like pandemic. If they use propaganda to oppress the people a bit of anti-propaganda is a legitimate tactic. We have to get them out so we can live in a democracy and peace and sort out climate change and peak oil.


----------



## Serene (Jul 5, 2021)

Argonia said:


> Make up more lies about Gove and spread them like pandemic. If they use propaganda to oppress the people a bit of anti-propaganda is a legitimate tactic. We have to get them out so we can live in a democracy and peace and sort out climate change and peak oil.




Elle est belle.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 5, 2021)

Serene said:


> Elle est belle.


Sie ist schon mein Freund


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 8, 2021)

Gove dinosaur porn/slashfiction, anyone?
Someone must be into it








						Dinoporn - Brighton Source
					

So, this guy keeps sending us dinosaur-based erotica featuring famous people. He claims this is an extract from his forthcoming novel.




					brightonsource.co.uk


----------



## Raheem (Jul 8, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> Gove dinosaur porn/slashfiction, anyone?
> Someone must be into it
> 
> 
> ...


Thinkmywifesaurus.


----------



## Serene (Jul 10, 2021)

Est-ce- que il est Gove sous l`influence?


----------



## MrSki (Jul 17, 2021)

So do any of the continental posters on here know what the super injunction is about & being reported abroad?

Please PM replies cos I don't want to get the site in trouble or just link to articles.


----------



## killer b (Jul 17, 2021)

Would anyone on the continent care about what Michael Gove gets up to? 

The rumour seems to be that he's moved in with one of his special advisors, which considering he's already left his wife a superinjunction seems a bit heavy duty


----------



## MrSki (Jul 17, 2021)

killer b said:


> Would anyone on the continent care about what Michael Gove gets up to?
> 
> The rumour seems to be that he's moved in with one of his special advisors, which considering he's already left his wife a superinjunction seems a bit heavy duty


 Well that would not need a super injunction if it is common knowledge. Was hoping that the foreign press might be a bit more juicy on the corruption theme. I don't care who Gove is fucking unless it is the UK.


----------



## platinumsage (Jul 17, 2021)

They've never heard of Gove and got floods and shit to deal with.


----------



## killer b (Jul 17, 2021)

MrSki said:


> Well that would not need a super injunction if it is common knowledge. Was hoping that the foreign press might be a bit more juicy on the corruption theme. I don't care who Gove is fucking unless it is the UK.


it doesn't seem to be in the newspapers that he's moved in with his special advisor, so it's almost certainly that. I'm not sure if it's common knowledge, it took me a few minutes to find his name - i'd imagine most people wouldn't be bothered looking.


----------



## killer b (Jul 17, 2021)

MrSki said:


> I don't care who Gove is fucking unless it is the UK.


superinjunctions are pretty much _always_ about who someone is fucking. what were you imagining it could be otherwise?


----------



## brogdale (Jul 17, 2021)

Check out the backhander that ended up in the bank.


----------



## MrSki (Jul 17, 2021)

killer b said:


> superinjunctions are pretty much _always_ about who someone is fucking. what were you imagining it could be otherwise?


How do you have so much knowledge about what super injuctions are about? Surely their nature is to restrict the public in knowing. Do you work for a law firm that deals with them or gossips about their content? Otherwise How the fuck would you know what a superinjunction covered?


----------



## killer b (Jul 17, 2021)

MrSki said:


> How do you have so much knowledge about what super injuctions are about? Surely their nature is to restrict the public in knowing. Do you work for a law firm that deals with them or gossips about their content? Otherwise How the fuck would you know what a superinjunction covered?


Not all superinjunctions remain in force, or they come out for some reason or the other. There's a list of some of these on wikipedia, all but one of which are related to shagging.


----------



## MrSki (Jul 17, 2021)

killer b said:


> Not all superinjunctions remain in force, or they come out for some reason or the other. There's a list of some of these on wikipedia, all but one of which are related to shagging.


How would you know about a superinjunction that didn't become public? A bit like a D notice surely.


----------



## killer b (Jul 17, 2021)

We have a sample of superinjunctions there, they're all about shagging. from that we can extrapolate that most of the rest are too. What other things do you think Gove might take an injunction out to conceal, weeks after leaving his wife?


----------



## MrSki (Jul 17, 2021)

Maybe his addiction to Snorbitz or his part in corrupt deals struck under Covid. I don't know & coincidentally nor do you.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 17, 2021)

popbitch say he likes getting his dick out as he is proud of its size


----------



## killer b (Jul 17, 2021)

MrSki said:


> Maybe his addiction to Snorbitz or his part in corrupt deals struck under Covid. I don't know & coincidentally nor do you.


occams razor says if it exists, it's cause he's banging his special advisor, like the internet says. Also maybe I'm being naive, but I don't think we (yet) live in a country so corrupt that a serving cabinet minister could persuade a judge to prevent publication of stories about him carrying out actual illegal acts.


----------



## MrSki (Jul 17, 2021)

killer b said:


> occams razor says if it exists, it's cause he's banging his special advisor, like the internet says. Also maybe I'm being naive, but I don't think we (yet) live in a country so corrupt that a serving cabinet minister could persuade a judge to prevent publication of stories about him carrying out actual illegal acts.


I am glad that you have that faith. Most judges have earnt their place but I am sure there are also a few who haven't. 
We live in a country where the Government takes the fucking piss. There was a time that if a minister lied to Parliament then that would be a resignation issue. Now days it is more likely to get you promoted. This country is really gone to the dogs & I cannot see democracy bringing it back.


----------



## killer b (Jul 17, 2021)

MrSki said:


> I am glad that you have that faith. Most judges have earnt their place but I am sure there are also a few who haven't.
> We live in a country where the Government takes the fucking piss. There was a time that if a minister lied to Parliament then that would be a resignation issue. Now days it is more likely to get you promoted. This country is really gone to the dogs & I cannot see democracy bringing it back.


Well, they do take the piss, and no-one really cares. Why would Gove bother getting an injunction out about him being involved in corrupt deals when plenty have already been exposed already and nothing happened?


----------



## MrSki (Jul 17, 2021)

killer b said:


> Well, they do take the piss, and no-one really cares. Why would Gove bother getting an injunction out about him being involved in corrupt deals when plenty have already been exposed already and nothing happened?


Why would he for an affair that is already in the public domain? If anything it is a seen as a good thing with this Government & I would disagree that no-one cares. 
I do for a start.


----------



## killer b (Jul 17, 2021)

Because a few people making snide references to your boyfriend's ripped torso and your massive dick on twitter is not the same as it being splashed across the front page of The Mirror?


----------



## MrSki (Jul 17, 2021)

killer b said:


> Because a few people making snide references to your boyfriend's ripped torso and your massive dick on twitter is not the same as it being splashed across the front page of The Mirror?


I don't know what you are on about(not had access to those super injuctions)  but a cunt who introduces automatic bans for teachers who abuse drugs & appears off his face with powder residue round his nose is a hypocritical cunt.


----------



## Sue (Jul 17, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> popbitch say he likes getting his dick out as he is proud of its size


Fucking hell, really could've done without that.


----------



## Raheem (Jul 17, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> popbitch say he likes getting his dick out as he is proud of its size


I really hope that was the subject of the superinjuction and one day we'll get court transcripts.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 18, 2021)

his nickname is Donkey, if you want to believe 
Crazy Little Thing Called Gove – Popbitch
Big Mick Energy – Popbitch
The Urinal Catwalk – Popbitch


----------



## Humberto (Jul 18, 2021)

Pob cunt


----------



## Raheem (Jul 18, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> his nickname is Donkey, if you want to believe
> Crazy Little Thing Called Gove – Popbitch
> Big Mick Energy – Popbitch
> The Urinal Catwalk – Popbitch


Hmmm. Seems like the idea that Gove is well-hung stems from the fact that he once had the nickname "donkey". It occurs to me that might have happened for a number of reasons.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 18, 2021)

Did I read that Gove is also on a pilot?


----------



## teqniq (Jul 18, 2021)

Back in June apparently.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 18, 2021)

teqniq said:


> Back in June apparently.


Soz, that should have come with a leery smiley.


----------



## teqniq (Jul 18, 2021)

Here you go:









						NHS test and trace alerted Michael Gove four days after Portugal return
					

Senior Tory returned from Porto after supporting Chelsea in Champions League final




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Raheem (Jul 18, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Did I read that Gove is also on a pilot?


I heard it was a member of cabin crew.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 18, 2021)

They changed the quarantine rules for Portugal so Gove and some cabinet chums could go to the football, then used another new rule to avoid having to isolate.

Still dining out on all the closeted skeletons he’s aware of from his time as a journalist then...


----------



## Badgers (Aug 29, 2021)

Michael Gove raves at Aberdeen club as ‘merry’ Tory MP leaves punters stunned
					

The senior Tory MP <a href="https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/museum-celebrates-paisley-thread-mills-24858703" rel="Follow">displayed</a> some questionable dance moves in the small hours during this solo visit to Bohemia in Aberdeen city centre last night.



					www.dailyrecord.co.uk


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 29, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Michael Gove raves at Aberdeen club as ‘merry’ Tory MP leaves punters stunned
> 
> 
> The senior Tory MP <a href="https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/museum-celebrates-paisley-thread-mills-24858703" rel="Follow">displayed</a> some questionable dance moves in the small hours during this solo visit to Bohemia in Aberdeen city centre last night.
> ...


Christ!


----------



## DownwardDog (Aug 29, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Michael Gove raves at Aberdeen club as ‘merry’ Tory MP leaves punters stunned
> 
> 
> The senior Tory MP <a href="https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/museum-celebrates-paisley-thread-mills-24858703" rel="Follow">displayed</a> some questionable dance moves in the small hours during this solo visit to Bohemia in Aberdeen city centre last night.
> ...



What particular micro sub genre of electronic music is that?


----------



## eatmorecheese (Aug 29, 2021)

DownwardDog said:


> What particular micro sub genre of electronic music is that?


Cuntbeat


----------



## Badgers (Aug 29, 2021)

DownwardDog said:


> What particular micro sub genre of electronic music is that?


Corrupt House


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 29, 2021)

Changstep


----------



## Badgers (Aug 29, 2021)




----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 29, 2021)

.


----------



## Ax^ (Aug 29, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Michael Gove raves at Aberdeen club as ‘merry’ Tory MP leaves punters stunned
> 
> 
> The senior Tory MP <a href="https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/in-your-area/renfrewshire/museum-celebrates-paisley-thread-mills-24858703" rel="Follow">displayed</a> some questionable dance moves in the small hours during this solo visit to Bohemia in Aberdeen city centre last night.
> ...



now i'm just waiting to hear if he was served a pint of piss once he was half cut


----------



## DaveCinzano (Aug 29, 2021)

Heard it through the Vine gripe


----------



## MrSki (Aug 29, 2021)




----------



## brogdale (Aug 29, 2021)




----------



## scalyboy (Aug 29, 2021)

Ax^ said:


> now i'm just waiting to hear if he was served a pint of piss once he was half cut


Thinking back to how big some of those 1989-1990 orbital raves were, Sunrise, Biology, etc, with thousands of ravers in attendance, isn't it statistically quite likely that some of us of er a certain age (ahem) would have been dancing next to Gove back in the day 

F*** me, imagine coming up on that Phantasy (dodgy acid / E mixture, if that's what its was) and seeing his sweaty goblin features gurning 3 feet away from you. Nightmares on Wax indeed.

Energy Gove

A Guy Called Gove

No Gove (Start the Dance)

Higher State of Gove

I Wanna Gove You Devotion

Pacific Gove

Future Sound of Gove

French Gove by Lil Michael...

ENOUGH ALREADY

[edited to add the obvious: Charley Says]


----------



## Calamity1971 (Aug 29, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> sweaty goblin


----------



## scalyboy (Aug 29, 2021)

MrSki said:


>



F*** me he's off his chump in that video clip, proper twisted his own melon


----------



## scalyboy (Aug 29, 2021)

brogdale said:


>



He should've used this for his dating app profile (see post #1368), rather than the depressed King Charles spaniel look he did use. SWIPE LEFT


----------



## Sue (Aug 29, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> He should've used this for his dating app profile (see post #1368), rather than the depressed King Charles spaniel look he did use. SWIPE LEFT


TBF which photo he uses is really the least of his worries in the online dating sphere.


----------



## tommers (Aug 29, 2021)

This is just a "look at me, I'm normal like you other normal human people" thing isn't it? He'd know that he'd be all over social media.


----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 29, 2021)

"People were buying him drinks"


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 29, 2021)

MrSki said:


>




Fucking hell, you'd hope he has some self-awareness and was dancing like that for a laugh.


----------



## stavros (Aug 29, 2021)

DownwardDog said:


> What particular micro sub genre of electronic music is that?


Pobstep


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Aug 29, 2021)

Dystopiary said:


> "People were buying him drinks"



Aberdeen is a bit of a Tory spot in Scotland (sadly).


----------



## two sheds (Aug 29, 2021)

I'm glad they did though


----------



## glitch hiker (Aug 29, 2021)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Fucking hell, you'd hope he has some self-awareness and was dancing like that for a laugh.


Wait, this is real? I thought this was a joke doing the rounds.


----------



## scalyboy (Aug 29, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> his nickname is Donkey, if you want to believe
> Crazy Little Thing Called Gove – Popbitch
> Big Mick Energy – Popbitch
> The Urinal Catwalk – Popbitch


​*"He didn’t like a single one of his sexual policies to go unexplained / *​*Narrating and describing everything that he was doing / *​*And everything that he planned to do"*​
Is it just me being pissed or does this sound like a late 1960s Bowie lyric?


----------



## Sue (Aug 29, 2021)

'Arms aloft, suit jacket on, Michael Gove has been filmed giving it his all in an Aberdeen nightclub after reportedly trying to avoid a £5 entrance fee by stating that he was the chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.'

🤣 









						‘Merry’ Michael Gove seen dancing ‘alone’ in Aberdeen nightclub
					

Tory minister reportedly said he did not need to pay to get in because he is chancellor of Duchy of Lancaster




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## two sheds (Aug 29, 2021)

Oooooooooh alcohol or cocaine, cocaine or alcohol, or alcohol _and _cocaine?


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 29, 2021)

Sue said:


> 'Arms aloft, suit jacket on, Michael Gove has been filmed giving it his all in an Aberdeen nightclub after reportedly trying to avoid a £5 entrance fee by stating that he was the chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster.'
> 
> 🤣
> 
> ...


"Let's Make Gove" (1959) - Mad scientist Marilyn Monroe constructs an artificial Michael Gove out of the diseased body parts of executed criminals. Fritz Lang directs.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 29, 2021)

he seems to have personality. still an arsehole tho


----------



## scalyboy (Aug 29, 2021)

Idris2002 said:


> "Let's Make Gove" (1959) - Mad scientist Marilyn Monroe constructs an artificial Michael Gove out of the diseased body parts of executed criminals. Fritz Lang directs.


Remake of a 1920s silent German Expressionist film in which a young Peter Lorre played Gove’s talking donkey nob


----------



## scalyboy (Aug 29, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Oooooooooh alcohol or cocaine, cocaine or alcohol, or alcohol _and _cocaine?


Well he says he was just on Coke when he arrived, but the good people of Aberdeen were reportedly buying him drinks in the club … so both


----------



## Ming (Aug 29, 2021)




----------



## spanglechick (Aug 29, 2021)

So, it seems obvious that he must’ve known someone would film this, and share that he’s hitting up women on the dating apps…

Is he either:
A) Having a bit of a post marriage breakdown, and is currently blind to the career consequences?
Or
B) Pursuing an “all in”, high-risk bid for the leadership, on a populist reinvention tip?


----------



## pogofish (Aug 29, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Oooooooooh alcohol or cocaine, cocaine or alcohol, or alcohol _and _cocaine?



If I ever felt the need to powder my nose, I would probably go somewhere not much more than one minutes walk from that pub/club to obtain it.

And O'Neills/Bohemia, Christ! - That is truly Aberdeen's domain of the desperate and for my sins, even I know how to reliably avoid its entry fee! 

And IIRC, at least one of the managers there was a major Tory arselicker.


----------



## Ming (Aug 29, 2021)

spanglechick said:


> So, it seems obvious that he must’ve known someone would film this, and share that he’s hitting up women on the dating apps…
> 
> Is he either:
> A) Having a bit of a post marriage breakdown, and is currently blind to the career consequences?
> ...


I’m betting on B due to the proven international success of that strategy and his naked political ambitions to be PM. Plus the choice of venue. Appeals to the oiks.


----------



## Sue (Aug 29, 2021)

pogofish said:


> If I ever felt the need to powder my nose, I would probably go somewhere not much more than one minutes walk from that pub/club to obtain it.
> 
> And O'Neills/Bohemia, Christ! - That is truly Aberdeen's domain of the desperate and for my sins, even I know how to reliably avoid its entry fee!
> 
> And IIRC, at least one of the managers there was a major Tory arselicker.


And you're not even chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. (That really cracks me up, it's just so _rubbish_ 🤣.)


----------



## two sheds (Aug 29, 2021)

spanglechick said:


> So, it seems obvious that he must’ve known someone would film this, and share that he’s hitting up women on the dating apps…
> 
> Is he either:
> A) Having a bit of a post marriage breakdown, and is currently blind to the career consequences?
> ...


pobulist


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 29, 2021)

spanglechick said:


> So, it seems obvious that he must’ve known someone would film this, and share that he’s hitting up women on the dating apps…
> 
> Is he either:
> A) Having a bit of a post marriage breakdown, and is currently blind to the career consequences?
> ...


Suspect the dating app thing is fake (I.e. someone creating a fake profile rather than the reporting of it being fake). If anyone here can do a reverse image search they might be able to find the photo used for it in the public domain.

The club thing could well be something to make the public think he’s ‘a bit of a card’, the shameless uncle dancing to match the various indignities (zip line etc) that Johnson used to build a reputation as a bit of a character and someone up for ‘a bit of fun’ like a normal human. Knowing how this lot work some adviser or image consultant would have planned it all.


----------



## pogofish (Aug 30, 2021)

Sue said:


> And you're not even chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. (That really cracks me up, it's just so _rubbish_ 🤣.)



Even more so because the Duchy of Lancaster has about the same standing in Scotland as the Magna Carta - ie not at all.

Even the Scottish equivalent Duchy fell out of use in the late nineteenth century!


----------



## pogofish (Aug 30, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> The club thing could well be something to make the public think he’s ‘a bit of a card’, the shameless uncle dancing to match the various indignities (zip line etc) that Johnson used to build a reputation as a bit of a character and someone up for ‘a bit of fun’ like a normal human. Knowing how this lot work some adviser or image consultant would have planned it all.



Any image advisor suggesting those places deserves to be sacked.  Even in Aberdeen they could have found him a number of other pubs/clubs that would have let him play "man of the people" with a fraction more class!


----------



## DownwardDog (Aug 30, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> Thinking back to how big some of those 1989-1990 orbital raves were, Sunrise, Biology, etc, with thousands of ravers in attendance, isn't it statistically quite likely that some of us of er a certain age (ahem) would have been dancing next to Gove back in the day
> 
> F*** me, imagine coming up on that Phantasy (dodgy acid / E mixture, if that's what its was) and seeing his sweaty goblin features gurning 3 feet away from you. Nightmares on Wax indeed.
> 
> ...



Lick My Gove Pump


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 30, 2021)

Gove, Gove will tear us apart, again


----------



## Serene (Aug 30, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> Well he says he was just on Coke when he arrived, but the good people of Aberdeen were reportedly buying him drinks in the club … so both


What are Goves policies, his stated policies that he has put out in his manifesto, about drugs, and in particular about class A drugs?


----------



## maomao (Aug 30, 2021)

Serene said:


> What are Goves policies, his stated policies that he has put out in his manifesto, about drugs, and in particular about class A drugs?


Politicians rarely have individual manifestos, that's more a spree-killer thing.


----------



## Serene (Aug 30, 2021)

maomao said:


> Politicians rarely have individual manifestos, that's more a spree-killer thing.


Thank you for your valid point. I used the word manifesto as I couldnt think of the equivalent of it for a personal one. Does anyone know the word for a Politicians official policies as made public for viewing?


----------



## strung out (Aug 30, 2021)

Serene said:


> Thank you for your valid point. I used the word manifesto as I couldnt think of the equivalent of it for a personal one. Does anyone know the word for a Politicians official policies as made public for viewing?


Opinions.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 30, 2021)

Lies.


----------



## Serene (Aug 30, 2021)

strung out said:


> Opinions.


Thank you for your post. In my ignorance, does that mean that Politicians have no such "thing" as an official personal policies list?


----------



## Serene (Aug 30, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Lies.


Also, Carte Blanche.


----------



## maomao (Aug 30, 2021)

Serene said:


> Thank you for your post. In my ignorance, does that mean that Politicians have no such "thing" as an official personal policies list?


You can see how he voted:









						Voting record for Michael Gove - MPs and Lords - UK Parliament
					

Michael Gove is the Conservative MP for Surrey Heath, and has been an MP continuously since 5 May 2005.  He currently holds the Government posts of Minister for Intergovernmental Relations, and Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities.




					members.parliament.uk
				




He also famously wrote an article for the Times called 'when it's right to be a hypocrite' about why he wants tough anti-drug laws despite having used drugs himself.


----------



## Serene (Aug 30, 2021)

maomao said:


> You can see how he voted:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


He allegedly was using class A drugs the other night and yet he wants tough anti-drugs laws. Maybe he needs to see a Politician about that?


----------



## Serene (Aug 30, 2021)

Does anyone remember Zoonie the Lazoon from Fireball xl5? Here is a 4 second video of the character.


----------



## Dogsauce (Aug 30, 2021)

pogofish said:


> Any image advisor suggesting those places deserves to be sacked.  Even in Aberdeen they could have found him a number of other pubs/clubs that would have let him play "man of the people" with a fraction more class!


Oh, I’m not expecting these people to be competent. We are talking about the Tory party after all.


----------



## kalidarkone (Aug 30, 2021)

Serene said:


> He allegedly was using class A drugs the other night and yet he wants tough anti-drugs laws. Maybe he needs to see a Politician about that?











						‘Merry’ Michael Gove seen dancing ‘alone’ in Aberdeen nightclub
					

Tory minister reportedly said he did not need to pay to get in because he is chancellor of Duchy of Lancaster




					www.theguardian.com
				




I ve already posted this on another Gove thread cus I didn't realise this one was current......


----------



## elbows (Aug 30, 2021)

Sue said:


> And you're not even chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. (That really cracks me up, it's just so _rubbish_ 🤣.)



Pass the Duchy of Lancaster 'pon the left hand side (I say)
Pass the Duchy of Lancaster 'pon the left hand side
It a go bun (give me the music, make me jump and prance)
It a go dung, ya know? (Give me the music, make me rockin' at the dance)

So I stopped to find out what was going on
(How does it feel when you've got no food?)
'Cause the spirit of Jah, you know he leads you on
(How does it feel when you've got no food?)
There was a ring of dreads and a session was there in swing
(How does it feel when you've got no food?)
You could feel the chills as I seen and heard them say
(How does it feel when you've got no food?)


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Aug 30, 2021)

Would quite often get twonks in suits show up at Spiral warehouse parties after their members clubs kicked out in the morning. Always an odd sight. Thankfully don't think Pob ever showed up though.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 30, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Would quite often get twonks in suits show up at Spiral warehouse parties after their members clubs kicked out in the morning. Always an odd sight. Thankfully don't think Pob ever showed up though.


It reminded me a bit of Zhu Hai in China, always a handful of suited and booted business men absolutely off their tits on MDMA in the nightclubs, there.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 30, 2021)

Surely...

**


----------



## Serene (Aug 30, 2021)

He might have been tooled up. When he went in the night club. OK I made that up.


----------



## stavros (Aug 30, 2021)

Serene said:


> Also, Carte Blanche.


Or Lignes Blanches.


----------



## Serene (Aug 30, 2021)

stavros said:


> Or Lignes Blanches.


Thats a quality Joke, right there.


----------



## Serene (Aug 30, 2021)

He just seems to have this bump of sparkle whenever he is making a speech. His confidence can be really high. Though he does have his off days.


----------



## BCBlues (Aug 30, 2021)

I've had this in my head all day since reading about this pricks latest exploits


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 30, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Oooooooooh alcohol or cocaine, cocaine or alcohol, or alcohol _and _cocaine?


Everything. All of it.


----------



## mx wcfc (Aug 30, 2021)




----------



## Badgers (Sep 2, 2021)

> Speaking on a panel alongside vice-chancellors from across the world at Times Higher Education’s World Academic Summit, Richardson said: “*Michael Gove, the British cabinet minister who I am embarrassed to confess we educated*, famously said after it was pointed out to him by a journalist that all the experts opposed Brexit, he said: ‘Oh we’ve had enough of experts.’







__





						Oxford vice-chancellor ‘embarrassed’ to have Michael Gove as alumnus | Michael Gove | The Guardian
					

Louise Richardson’s comment prompted by minister’s dismissal of experts during Brexit campaign




					amp.theguardian.com


----------



## stavros (Sep 2, 2021)

I never thought I'd say this, by I think Michael Gove is wasted in politics.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 2, 2021)

Popbitch:



> > Hot Mike <<


How to party like Gove

If you think we're going to use the footage of Michael Gove dancing weirdly in an Aberdeen nightclub as some jumping-off point to talk about his knob, or his cocaine use, or his urinal etiquette, or his divorce, or his sexual patter, or the utterly pitiful fact that he tried to namedrop his position as the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster as a way to get out of paying a fiver to get into a club – we're not.

Why would we, when we could tell you instead that one of the tunes Gove was filmed flapping about to on the dancefloor was an instrumental mix of a song called "Big Booty Hoes And Sluts Too".

[Listen here]


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 9, 2021)

More Popbitch GoveWatch:



> non writes: "I can confirm Michael Gove is on Bumble - I matched with him. To make sure it was him, I asked him to take a selfie holding up that day's newspaper and he did."


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

we need to get an Urbanite to match with him and go on a date.


----------



## Badgers (Sep 9, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> we need to get an Urbanite to match with him and go on a date.


Well volunteered sir


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Well volunteered sir


I would, but I don't think I'm what he's after. who knows though, maybe he's up for trying new things


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 9, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> I asked him to take a selfie holding up that day's newspaper and he did


Ripe for a bit of hot Hans Martin Schleyer roleplay shenanigans


----------



## not-bono-ever (Sep 9, 2021)

Is bumble a gay site?


----------



## Sue (Sep 9, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> we need to get an Urbanite to match with him and go on a date.


 I can't believe you'd want to inflict him on someone on here. (Andi can't see you getting any volunteers either. <shudder>)


----------



## Sue (Sep 9, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> Is bumble a gay site?


No. Iirc it's more set up so women make the first  move.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

Sue said:


> I can't believe you'd want to inflict him on someone on here. (Andi can't see you getting any volunteers either. <shudder>)


i dunno - it would be an interesting experience, it's not as if anyone would have to kiss him, they could make their excuses and leave.


----------



## Sue (Sep 9, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> i dunno - it would be an interesting experience, it's not as if anyone would have to kiss him, they could make their excuses and leave.


Lots of things are interesting if you're not in the frame for doing them yourself .


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

Sue said:


> Lots of things are interesting if you're not in the frame for doing them yourself .


I'd be well up for it - who wouldn't? It would be fascinating


----------



## Sue (Sep 9, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I'd be well up for it - who wouldn't? It would be fascinating


Me. He makes my flesh crawl and it would be surely worse irl. And imagine if someone saw you.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

Sue said:


> Me. He makes my flesh crawl and it would be surely worse irl. And imagine if someone saw you.


for me too, but why would you piss up a chance to be bought dinner by that worm, find out some choice gossip, have some stories to dine out on, and call him a cunt right after he paid the bill?
why would it matter if you were seen?


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 9, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> call him a cunt right after he paid the bill


I don't know, the vibe I get off the Polo-nostriled vermin is that you could repeatedly call him a cunt _throughout_ the meal and the only effect it would have would be to fire up the blood pump in his dick to Turbo.


----------



## Sue (Sep 9, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> for me too, but why would you piss up a chance to be bought dinner by that worm, find out some choice gossip, have some stories to dine out on, and call him a cunt right after he paid the bill?
> why would it matter if you were seen?


I'd never let a man pay for dinner on a first date. I find it a strange concept tbh.

The sheer embarrassment obvs. Shudder.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> I don't know, the vibe I get off the Polo-nostriled vermin is that you could repeatedly call him a cunt _throughout_ the meal and the only effect it would have would be to fire up the blood pump in his dick to Turbo.


i reckon i could at least score some quality drugs off him


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## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

Sue said:


> I'd never let a man pay for dinner on a first date. I find it a strange concept tbh.
> 
> The sheer embarrassment obvs. Shudder.


I would. 

Why would it be embarrassing?


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## Sue (Sep 9, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> I would.
> 
> Why would it be embarrassing?


Why would being seen on a date with Michael Gove be embarrassing?


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## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

Sue said:


> Why would being seen on a date with Michael Gove be embarrassing?


i don't know, but it wouldn't cos you'd tell those who mattered all about it anyway


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## Yossarian (Sep 9, 2021)

I would definitely expect Gove to be paying the bill, but that's because I would order the most expensive thing on the menu, sneak out of the restaurant before it arrived, and block his number.


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## two sheds (Sep 9, 2021)

Yossarian said:


> I would definitely expect Gove to be paying the bill, but that's because I would order the most expensive thing on the menu, sneak out of the restaurant before it arrived, and block his number.


That's probably what he'd do tbf.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

one could always nudge him towards killing himself with chemsex, but that would require a huge sacrifice that not even i would be prepared to make


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## MickiQ (Sep 9, 2021)

It would be a race to see who could bunk off first, bit like 2 boxers both paid to throw the fight going down  in the first round.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> It would be a race to see who could bunk off first, bit like 2 boxers both paid to throw the fight going down  in the first round.


permanent boxers’ cuddle


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## BigMoaner (Sep 9, 2021)

Weren't him and Cameron and all that shower involved in the early acid house scene?


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## elbows (Sep 9, 2021)

stavros said:


> I never thought I'd say this, by I think Michael Gove is wasted in politics.



But does that mean you are unfamiliar with his earlier tv 'career'?



As the description of that youtube video says...

"Ever wonder what Michael Gove did before he fucked up the UK? That's right, he fucked up TV.

Marvel at the haunted bag of mince doing telly."


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## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> Weren't him and Cameron and all that shower involved in the early acid house scene?


there’s a very blurry clip of some orbital rave in the late 80s which is purported to show Cameron having some fun, but it doesn’t really look like him


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## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

elbows said:


> But does that mean you are unfamiliar with his earlier tv 'career'?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



don’t forget he had his own show every morning in the mid 80s


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## BigMoaner (Sep 9, 2021)

As a recently divorced oh boy could I relate to that clip. The sudden freedom. The not really knowing what youre doing but just trying to adjust and the sense of overwhelming freedom. He's a cockwomble but I knew what was going on when  I saw that clip!


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## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> As a recently divorced oh boy could I relate to that clip. The sudden freedom. The not really knowing what youre doing but just trying to adjust and the sense of overwhelming freedom. He's a cockwomble but I knew what was going on when  I saw that clip!


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## BigMoaner (Sep 9, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


>



Me when it's my half of the week without the nippers. Really not far off. Lol


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## Orang Utan (Sep 9, 2021)

BigMoaner said:


> Me when it's my half of the week without the nippers. Really not far off. Lol


phew, after i posted it, i was worried you might think i was being a dick


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 9, 2021)

elbows said:


> But does that mean you are unfamiliar with his earlier tv 'career'?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You all may find nigh thirty years on these clips moderately amusing, but for me I feel personally invested in seeing the shit-sack's career and all he ever held dear ripped from his sweaty little soft hands and pushed through a wood-chipper, because I watched_ A Stab In The Dar_k when it was actually on


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## elbows (Sep 10, 2021)

I think I might have seen it at least once when it was on. I like to think I  wouldnt have put myself through the suffering of watching the whole series but my memory doesnt seem too clear as to how much of it I actually saw at the time. 

I do remember Gove featuring in some program that in the buildup to the Iraq war which was presented as some kind of mock debate or court case as to the merits of war, and he was enthusiastically representing the bullshitters and their 'weapons of mass destruction ready within 45 minutes' propaganda. I think it went down the memory hole, and for that reason I wouldnt mind seeing it again.


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## not a trot (Sep 10, 2021)

Surrey Heath council, which is part of Goves constituency, has announced it will no longer be collecting green waste until next year. The reason given, shortage of drivers.


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## scalyboy (Sep 10, 2021)

elbows said:


> But does that mean you are unfamiliar with his earlier tv 'career'?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Ah… Gove’s TV career: didn’t he also appear with Baddiel & Newman in the late 1980s / early 1990s, or am I experiencing rave-related false memory syndrome ?


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 10, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> Ah… Gove’s TV career: didn’t he also appear with Baddiel & Newman in the late 1980s / early 1990s, or am I experiencing rave-related false memory syndrome ?


No, he appeared with Baddiel and Tracey MacLeod (_The Late Show_, GLR) in _A Stab in The Dark_ (the show in that YouTube link).


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## brogdale (Sep 12, 2021)

Just cranked up the system and grooving around the room to Pete Heller's 'Big Love' and Mrs fells me with the killer blow..." you dance like Gove"!

That's wrecked the party atmosphere.


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 12, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Just cranked up the system and grooving around the room to Pete Heller's 'Big Love' and Mrs fells me with the killer blow..." you dance like Gove"!
> 
> That's wrecked the party atmosphere.


With a heavy heart etc









						Divorce solicitors
					

Our local divorce solicitors can help with all aspects of divorce, including finances, children, property and tracking down hidden assets.




					www.stowefamilylaw.co.uk


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## teqniq (Sep 12, 2021)

.


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## Dogsauce (Sep 13, 2021)

Orang Utan said:


> i reckon i could at least score some quality drugs off him


Take him in the bogs and offer him a small bag of ant powder to snort. See how that goes...


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## ruffneck23 (Sep 13, 2021)

Revealed: Michael Gove’s sexist jibes, racist jokes and homophobic slurs
					

Exclusive: Chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster made the comments in Cambridge Union debates in the late 1980s and early 1990s




					www.independent.co.uk


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## two sheds (Sep 13, 2021)

Future interviews should start off with "and are you still a racist, homophobic cunt?"


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## eatmorecheese (Sep 13, 2021)

ruffneck23 said:


> Revealed: Michael Gove’s sexist jibes, racist jokes and homophobic slurs
> 
> 
> Exclusive: Chancellor of the duchy of Lancaster made the comments in Cambridge Union debates in the late 1980s and early 1990s
> ...


A lovely person.  Just goes to show that being a sneery edgelord can take you places in the UK.

And then I think of Darren Grimes and twats like that and I'm glad I'll most likely be dead in thirty years time.


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 13, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Future interviews should start off with "and are you still a racist, homophobic cunt?"


I think basic etiquette demands that be phrased as "and when did you stop being a racist, homophobic cunt?"


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## Serene (Sep 13, 2021)

Part of one of Goves speeches.

" We are at last approaching a new Empire. An Empire where the happy South stamps over the cruel, dirty, toothless face of the Northerner. At last Mrs Thatcher is saying " I dont give a fig what half of the population says because the richer half will keep me in power. This may be amoral, this may be immoral, but its politics and its pragmatism. "


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## existentialist (Sep 13, 2021)

Serene said:


> Part of one of Goves speeches.
> 
> " We are at last approaching a new Empire. An Empire where the happy South stamps over the cruel, dirty, toothless face of the Northerner. At last Mrs Thatcher is saying " I dont give a fig what half of the population says because the richer half will keep me in power. This may be amoral, this may be immoral, but its politics and its pragmatism. "


I'm never quite sure when your quotes aren't 100% original


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## Serene (Sep 13, 2021)

existentialist said:


> I'm never quite sure when your quotes aren't 100% original


This ones real!!  I will get a link for it.

Revealed: Michael Gove’s sexist jibes, racist jokes and homophobic slurs

Actually I noticed that its the same link as above, so below.


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## two sheds (Sep 13, 2021)

"cruel, dirty, toothless face of the Northerner" should be in the tories next election ads.


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## Serene (Sep 13, 2021)

Gove compared the British Crusades to the Salvation Army. He said that they were primarily an outreach group rather like the Salvation Army which delivered imroving leaflets to the middle east and created the superb reputation that we have in the area to this day.


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## Serene (Sep 13, 2021)

Has anyone got that video of him in Parliament where he freezes in time while all around carries on, and than starts swaying?


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## Serene (Sep 13, 2021)

This is the video of Goblin-Gove acting very oddly in Parliament during a Corbyn speech.


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## Serene (Sep 13, 2021)

Goblin-Gove said " Young people can buy houses if they dont go out drinking. "


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## tim (Sep 14, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> Ah… Gove’s TV career: didn’t he also appear with Baddiel & Newman in the late 1980s / early 1990s, or am I experiencing rave-related false memory syndrome ?


He appeared with Christopher Lee, Robert Hardy, Edward Fox and Brian Cant.




Presumably, Sarah Vine has more of Michael's juvenilia stashed away ready for release at the appropriate moment.


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## eatmorecheese (Sep 14, 2021)

I've been 'processing' those Gove debating speech recordings mentally, because they absolutely trigger me.

I think I know why I want to cave his stupid little head in. Not that I'd advocate violence, of course.

I was in a public school sixth form in the years he made these debate contributions. Completely matches the attitudes of a lot of my juvenile, privileged and bone-headed contemporaries around race, sexuality, sexism, classism etc. All a game, all a laugh.

This cunt could never aspire to be Pob. Pob was an innocent. Pob has ten times the soul of this oily shit-rag. Nasty cunt.

Thank you for tolerating this bit of venting after a shit day


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## Raheem (Sep 14, 2021)

Liked for the heartfelt Pob rehabilitation.


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## eatmorecheese (Sep 14, 2021)

Raheem said:


> Liked for the heartfelt Pob rehabilitation.


Exactly. For far too long, (etc)


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## not-bono-ever (Sep 17, 2021)

He is the haunted Jack-in-the-Box of politics


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## scalyboy (Sep 18, 2021)

tim said:


> He appeared with Christopher Lee, Robert Hardy, Edward Fox and Brian Cant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bloody hell! Balls n Gove!!


----------



## Serene (Sep 19, 2021)

What time does Gove go out night clubbing on a Sunday?


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## Raheem (Sep 19, 2021)

Serene said:


> What time does Gove go out night clubbing on a Sunday?


You mean, surely, what time does he go out on a Friday and what time does he get back on a Tuesday?


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## not a trot (Sep 19, 2021)

Raheem said:


> You mean, surely, what time does he go out on a Friday and what time does he get back on a Tuesday?



Is that why people keep saying to him CU next Tuesday.


----------



## Serene (Sep 19, 2021)

What does CU stand for?


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## Ming (Sep 20, 2021)

Serene said:


> What does CU stand for?


It’s an acronym for cunt.


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## DaveCinzano (Sep 20, 2021)

Ming said:


> It’s an acronym for cunt.


(((((Russ Abbott))))


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## Ming (Sep 20, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> (((((Russ Abbott))))


The last serious band I was in had a song with that title. 'See You Next Tuesday (Yah Cunt)'. Great chorus. Well I say it was a serious band..


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 8, 2021)

Bumble update









						Michael Gove has been spotted on Bumble in Manchester | JOE.co.uk
					

Michael Gove has been spotted on Bumble in Manchester




					www.joe.co.uk


----------



## Badgers (Oct 10, 2021)

Seen a few people asking this question 🤔


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## Serene (Oct 10, 2021)

Badgers said:


> Seen a few people asking this question 🤔



 It says Hmm... this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else.
I saw Goblin Gove at the Garden Centre yesterday. He was in the third row of Gnomes near the Wheelbarrows and Chimney Pots.


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## Badgers (Oct 10, 2021)

Serene said:


> It says Hmm... this page doesn’t exist. Try searching for something else.
> I saw Goblin Gove at the Garden Centre yesterday. He was in the third row of Gnomes near the Wheelbarrows and Chimney Pots.


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## stavros (Oct 10, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Bumble update
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Doesn't he live in Camberley?


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 10, 2021)

stavros said:


> Doesn't he live in Camberley?





> That's right, the MP for Surrey Heath and current Secretary of State for "Levelling Up" (a title conveniently not listed on his dating profile) was spotted on Bumble this week by Manchester residents, as he was knocking about the city for the Conservative Party Conference.


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## Serene (Nov 7, 2021)

Would Gove make a good Butler for the Queen?


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## existentialist (Nov 8, 2021)

Serene said:


> Would Gove make a good Butler for the Queen?


Gove wouldn't make a good anything.


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## brogdale (Nov 8, 2021)

existentialist said:


> Gove wouldn't make a good anything.



Oily penguin feed?


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## existentialist (Nov 8, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Oily penguin feed?


Now you're talking.


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## bluescreen (Nov 9, 2021)

In his exaggerated concern for tenants of cladded buildings is Gove laying down a glove before Sunak and Johnson in a bid to be next PM?
It's somewhere on here (regret I lack the patience to find the exact time):








						Today in Parliament - 08/11/2021 - BBC Sounds
					

News, views and features on today's stories in Parliament.




					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Not that any relief for people who have been so shafted isn't welcome, just something about his oh-so-sensitive-reaching-out-to-you manner.









						Grenfell: Government to pause leaseholders paying to make cladding safe, Michael Gove confirms
					

Following the Grenfell Tower disaster in 2017, thousands of leaseholders are facing large bills to pay for unsafe cladding to be removed.




					news.sky.com


----------



## Serene (Nov 9, 2021)

Im hearing that Vine divorced Gove because of the amount of time he spent upstairs behind the curtains watching the neighbours house and garden in case they got something that they havent got.


----------



## brogdale (May 11, 2022)

One of the worst ever auditions for _Britain's Got Talent..._


----------



## Johnny Vodka (May 11, 2022)

He's been on the beak again.  Quick, someone swipe the bogs..


----------



## ohmyliver (May 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> One of the worst ever auditions for _Britain's Got Talent..._



Did he not practice his lines or something?


----------



## albionism (May 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> One of the worst ever auditions for _Britain's Got Talent..._



The state of him. They have nothing but the utmost contempt for us, these psycho bastards.


----------



## eatmorecheese (May 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> One of the worst ever auditions for _Britain's Got Talent..._



Already auditioning for a standard reactionary talk radio job I see. The cocked-up cunt.


----------



## teqniq (May 11, 2022)

Heh:


----------



## two sheds (May 11, 2022)

Her face the whole way through 

what was the end bit with the voices?


----------



## existentialist (May 11, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Her face the whole way through
> 
> what was the end bit with the voices?


That's Rosie Holt, not an actual presenter (though wouldn't it be brilliant if she was?)


----------



## MrSki (May 11, 2022)




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## Puddy_Tat (May 11, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Her face the whole way through



from  to  to


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (May 11, 2022)

Gove lost a bet I reckon, accents were his forfeit.  Like when the England football team all tried to get as many song titles into post-match interviews.

Good to know the tories take their media rounds seriously, use it as an opportunity to connect with the ordinary masses, and don't just take the piss.


----------



## Ax^ (May 11, 2022)

the whole day has been random talk Torys saying they are going to help poor people by creating more of them
championed by this arsehole

leveling up my friggin arse


----------



## bluescreen (May 12, 2022)

toxic shaven owl


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> toxic shaven owl



_...before all of nature dies..._


----------



## stavros (Jul 18, 2022)

There was a beautiful bit on C4 News this evening, as IDS was asked if Gove was playing nasty in order to get his preferred candidate in No.10. IDS paused and then pointedly didn't deny it.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 19, 2022)

Cracking endorsement there; I know I'm backing the loser!


----------



## eatmorecheese (Aug 19, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Cracking endorsement there; I know I'm backing the loser!
> 
> View attachment 338653


All ambition gone, then? Time to make some (more) money?

Piss off then, you poisonous Gollum


----------



## gosub (Aug 21, 2022)

Think Murdoch is being straight with the Tories

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/michael-gove-liz-truss-rishi-sunak-pz67ggl9z


----------



## stdP (Aug 21, 2022)

When we've got to the point where Gove is being the most sensible person in the room (albeit a padded one), has anyone checked in on Satan recently? I'm worried he's been unable to pay his gas bill and is in danger of hypothermia.


----------



## stavros (Aug 21, 2022)

Gove's gone for Sunak, which hopefully will mean he's nowhere near Truss' cabinet.

Note that I don't expect to make her cabinet any better; just me wishing ill on him.


----------



## Cerv (Aug 21, 2022)

Gove doesn't expect Truss' government to last long then. if he's already positioning himself for a comeback in the next (shadow) cabinet.


----------



## stavros (Aug 21, 2022)

Cerv said:


> if he's already positioning himself for a comeback in the next (shadow) cabinet.


Footage of Gove positioning himself:


----------



## gosub (Aug 21, 2022)

stavros said:


> Footage of Gove positioning himself:



What? As a newly separated fella going back to his roots?


----------



## gosub (Aug 21, 2022)

BBC Radio 4 - Michael & Boris: The Two Brexiteers
					

Boris Johnson and Michael Gove snatch leadership defeat from the jaws of Brexit victory.




					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Heard this the other week.  Who'd have thought a pair of opinion puce writers for the Times and Telegraph would end up where they did


----------



## tim (Aug 30, 2022)

He may be standing down from parliament, which has got his local Liberals excited at the idea of "Wining Here".



			https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2022/aug/30/lib-dems-get-ready-for-possible-byelection-if-michael-gove-quits


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 6, 2022)

Bizarrely being floated by Simon Jenkins (who’s perhaps been on the sherry to think this) as a unity candidate to “do a Michael Howard” and provide a veneer of competence to limit their losses at the next election. 









						The best course left to the Tories is to oust Liz Truss – and install a caretaker leader | Simon Jenkins
					

A unifier like Michael Gove could prepare the party for effective opposition, says Guardian columnist Simon Jenkins




					www.theguardian.com
				




Given how much both wings of the Tory party hate Gove, can’t see this happening even if it would be equally funny and dangerous with Gove as prime minister for a brief period


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 6, 2022)

A Pobminister


----------



## scalyboy (Oct 8, 2022)

Operation Save Big Pob


----------



## strung out (Oct 26, 2022)

He's back in the cabinet - levelling up secretary.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Oct 26, 2022)

Elpenor said:


> Bizarrely being floated by Simon Jenkins (who’s perhaps been on the sherry to think this) as a unity candidate to “do a Michael Howard” and provide a veneer of competence to limit their losses at the next election.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Simon Jenkins is probably the least correct of all the political commentators most of the time. There are very few wrong opinions this man hasn't had.


----------

