# The Ashes 2010/11



## strung out (Oct 31, 2010)

right, so the england squad has arrived in australia now, they play their first tour match on friday, with the first test on the 25th november.

i fancy england to do ok-ish, but i'm erring slightly on the pessimistic side. i fancy a drawn series, 2-2 or possibly a narrow defeat for england. what are the aussie pitches like for getting results on?

i lolled at the stunt by cricket australia the other day with the projection on big ben. all good stuff.


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## liquidlunch (Nov 2, 2010)

Pitches can alter markedly here.We have had a really wet time of it lately with the long drought breaking due to el nino or something.Probably see the ball swinging a bit more than usual which will suit the poms.I think it will be close fought,we are not doing to well of late


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 2, 2010)

Personally can't wait to be up all night watching these matches.


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## butchersapron (Nov 2, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> Pitches can alter markedly here.We have had a really wet time of it lately with the long drought breaking due to el nino or something.Probably see the ball swinging a bit more than usual which will suit the poms.I think it will be close fought,we are not doing to well of late


 
I agree, you're shit.


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## Santino (Nov 2, 2010)




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## Santino (Nov 2, 2010)

Ponting's not the match-winner he was, Hussey's struggling, Johnson is wayward, half their fast bowlers are coming back from injury and they don't have a decent spinner.


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## Santino (Nov 2, 2010)

Furthermore,


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## Santino (Nov 3, 2010)

Australia had Sri Lanka on 107 for 8 and just let them win lol.


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## strung out (Nov 3, 2010)

132 partnership for the 9th wicket


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## Santino (Nov 3, 2010)

Malinga 56 off 48 balls. Previous best score in an ODI: 16.


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## Teaboy (Nov 3, 2010)

The aussies are in a really weird position, they can't close a game out at the moment, they seem to have forgotten how to win.

Long may it continue.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 3, 2010)

Had to miss the ending of the Sri lanka match.  Amazing game though.


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## Santino (Nov 4, 2010)

lol



> MARCUS NORTH has emerged as a shock contender for Australia's Test captaincy, as Michael Clarke's popularity within the side continues to wane following a bitter tour of India.
> 
> The team is not divided to the point of implosion, but a number of senior players remain firmly opposed to the idea that Clarke will succeed Ricky Ponting.



http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/north-firms-as-captain-over-clarke-20101103-17e1p.html


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 4, 2010)

Uh oh, aussies falling apart?


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## mattie (Nov 4, 2010)

Hmmm.

Crims going down the Brearley route?


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## The Octagon (Nov 4, 2010)

All this disarray is usually followed by the Aussies thumping us, I'm not falling for it.


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## Teaboy (Nov 4, 2010)

The Octagon said:


> All this disarray is usually followed by the Aussies thumping us, I'm not falling for it.


 
Quite, there are too many problems in the aussie camp for my liking.  If we lose the first test we could be routed.


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## The Octagon (Nov 4, 2010)

Plus it's funnier when the Aussies are all full of themselves and expecting to whitewash us


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 4, 2010)

Hard to see how it will go. Both teams seem to have a top order with more reputation than form. Neither team's bowling attack is particularly scary. 

Hmmm.


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## Teaboy (Nov 4, 2010)

Ok I've been doing a bit of thinking about this today and I reckon the aussies will have to do two things to beat England.  Firstly they need to find a way to keep Swann out, even better if they can get him out of the attack because Strauss will just want to rotate the quicks from the other end. Finn is very green, Broad is inconsistent and Anderson has yet to prove himself when the ball doesnt swing.  Keep Swann out and you're looking at a decent score.

Secondly they need to polish off England's lower middle order / tail quickly each time.  England's batting is hit and miss (literally) and they never all seem to fire at the same time.  The runs from 7,8 and 9 have been covering up for this for a few years now (and was probably the difference in the last ashes). 

Looking at the Aussies: As well as their opening bats have done they still feel like make-shift openers, neither particuarly at ease with their roll.  Ponting is seemingly in a terminal decline (last series as captain or even full stop?), Hussey is in all sorts of trouble and I don't rate Marcus North that highly.  For me I think the key man is Michael Clarke, his battle with Swann should be the real draw.

The bowling actually looks reasonably bright but without a world class spinner you have to wonder where the wickets will come from as the ball gets old?

On the balance of things I make England slight favourites but if the aussies win the first test they will go onto win the series.


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## paulhackett (Nov 4, 2010)

Ashes highlights may be on ITV4 at 10pm each night for 60 minutes...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/04/the-ashes-itv-highlights


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## Santino (Nov 8, 2010)

Good to see England actually winning a warm-up game instead of just using them as a net session. Pietersen seems to have some of his confidence back too.


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## Teaboy (Nov 9, 2010)

Anyway on other subjects does anyone know much about this wicket keeper from Pakistan who has just done a bunk from their tour and flown over here?

Some talk that he may be claiming asylum, anyone know if hes any good and if so how long till he is available to play for us?


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## strung out (Nov 9, 2010)

he's just announced his retirement from international cricket!


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## Teaboy (Nov 9, 2010)

Thats just from Pakistan, I bet he could be convinced.  Its not as if being English is much of a pre-requiste for playing for the national side anymore.


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## paulhackett (Nov 9, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Anyway on other subjects does anyone know much about this wicket keeper from Pakistan who has just done a bunk from their tour and flown over here?
> 
> Some talk that he may be claiming asylum, anyone know if hes any good and if so how long till he is available to play for us?



I've posted it before but apparently Zulqarnain Haider was recently working in the Chicken Cottage in Luton. So if the cricket career is over..

In other news, if Cook fails, Michael Carberry is out of the back up squad as he has had a blood clot on the lung and can't fly long haul.


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## agricola (Nov 10, 2010)

paulhackett66 said:


> I've posted it before but apparently Zulqarnain Haider was recently working in the Chicken Cottage in Luton. So if the cricket career is over.


 
I hope it isnt, if half of what he says is true then the man clearly deserves the highest praise, certainly far more than any recent international cricketer - what has come out so far seems (once again) to a massive indictment on the PCB who have clearly either turned the blindest of eyes to, or been deeply complicit in, what has gone on in domestic and international cricket involving Pakistan.  Perhaps the most mad I have seen so far is this:



> The Lahore Eagles sacked Haider as captain on the eve of the game, apparently because he refused to pick particular players for the match. Haidar specifically objected to the inclusion of a right-arm fast bowler called Usman Sarwar, who had never played for the team before.
> 
> Batting first, the Eagles were bowled out for 122 in 40.3 overs. In the second innings National Bank scored 123 off just 6.1 overs, with Butt making 92 off 25 balls. Sarwar opened the bowling and conceded 78 runs from his three overs and never played another List A or first-class match. National Bank qualified for the semi-finals. *The Pakistan Cricket Board investigated the match and said that they found no evidence of foul play.*



http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/nov/09/zulqarnain-haider-pakistan


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## butchersapron (Nov 10, 2010)

The PCB rep on C4 news tonight was clearly a man in trouble - going to great lengths to smear Haider, almost if he knew where the finger would be pointed next....


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## strung out (Nov 10, 2010)

according to the bbc, haider is claiming asylum in the uk now

e2a this might be worth a thread of its own actually


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## mattie (Nov 10, 2010)

This is getting very, very sinister.


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## Santino (Nov 15, 2010)

Australia hoping to win the first Test by cleverly playing a team of seventeen.


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## strung out (Nov 15, 2010)

i've barely heard of some of them. i'm starting to get a good feeling about the series now...


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## shagnasty (Nov 16, 2010)

In my experience never write of the aussies


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## butchersapron (Nov 16, 2010)

I hear Mr Cricket may be dropped...


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 16, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I hear Mr Cricket may be dropped...


 
About time really – he averages 33 last two years. Shame for England, though.


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## Santino (Nov 16, 2010)

Phillip Hughes isn't going to be forcing his way back into the Oz squad. 


Unfortunately.


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## strung out (Nov 16, 2010)

i wish i had skysports. match against australia A about to start


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 16, 2010)

I'm watching that atm, bowling well so far.


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## Santino (Nov 17, 2010)

Meanwhile in Aussie domestic cricket: Shane Watson caught on 6, Simon Katich out for 1 and Michael Hussey caught (by his own brother) for a duck.


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## liquidlunch (Nov 17, 2010)

your sides warming up against out 2nd eleven today in tassy,at the mo we are 176/6,like the look of Tremmlet and the lad from yorkeshire.Should be a good loosner for your boys.
I hope they make Marcus North captain,after Ponting calls it quits.Punter is due for a couple of big scores though and it would fill my black heart with pride if he belted a few tons of your lads this summer xxx


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## paulhackett (Nov 17, 2010)

Loved Shahzad giving Khawaja a send off. Pity Morgan isn't getting a hit today. Can't remember having such confidence in a touring squad in its entirety for a long time. Cue disaster..


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 17, 2010)

I'll be truly amazed if the aussies get anymore than a draw out of this series. (in terms of the overall result i mean) I watched a session and a half of last night, was good to see our reserve bowlers doing well, also Panesar's catch was great. Even got nicknamed 'Monti Rhodes'.


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## Santino (Nov 17, 2010)

That catch was awesome!


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## Santino (Nov 17, 2010)

Ponting was out for 7 in a bizarre Sheffield Shield match which has so far yielded 240 runs for 20 wickets.


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## Santino (Nov 17, 2010)

And North was out for 17.


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## gabi (Nov 17, 2010)

this has 5-0 written all over it.

love it when the poms head downunder all cocky


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## Santino (Nov 17, 2010)

Has anyone spotted any 'actually Australian fans probably value series against India and South Africa as much as they do the Ashes these days' articles?


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## gabi (Nov 17, 2010)

well, i think that's probably a true statement but nope.. i read english press tho. which has spent the last few weeks claiming that the aussies are past it and england's gonna trounce em. lol.


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## butchersapron (Nov 17, 2010)

Santino said:


> Has anyone spotted any 'actually Australian fans probably value series against India and South Africa as much as they do the Ashes these days' articles?


 
I have, but it was mostly disguised by flannel about the economic centrality of India to world/Australian cricket...


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## Santino (Nov 17, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I have, but it was mostly disguised by flannel about the economic centrality of India to world/Australian cricket...


 
Excellent.


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## strung out (Nov 17, 2010)

he came out with this a little while ago, but yet another ashes tradition has been performed, with glenn mcgrath's expert prediction...




			
				Glenn McGrath said:
			
		

> I'm still going with the 5-0. I can't really say anything else now, I guess I've dug a bit of a hole for myself, but I've got total faith in our boys. It should be a good series. The games should all be relatively close, with Australia just getting home in every Test.



his 9 other predictions are here including "The youngsters will come good" and "Ricky Ponting will hold it all together",


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 17, 2010)

That's about as half-hearted as a 5-0 prediction can get isn't it. 

Still can't be too confident in my opinion. They aren't what they were but Australia don't lose too much at home.  A good first day would be a nice change and then maybe we might scrape it, just about.


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## Teaboy (Nov 17, 2010)

gabi said:


> this has 5-0 written all over it.
> 
> love it when the poms head downunder all cocky


 
Don't believe the bullshit, people talk a lot but where they put their money is a better indication, the aussies are still favourites at the bookies.


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## twentythreedom (Nov 17, 2010)

anyone see the warm up game on telly last night? shazad was looking fucking fierce, scaring the crap out of them pussies!!

just waiting for play to start now, bit of rain in hobart but sunny now.

collingwood quote - "i could swing a brick!"


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 17, 2010)

I'd like to see Shahzad in the team for the first test. In place of Broad (he's probably a better batsman than Broad too). Won't happen, of course...


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 17, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Don't believe the bullshit, people talk a lot but where they put their money is a better indication, the aussies are still favourites at the bookies.


 
I think it's impossible to call, really. England have the only good spinner. Both teams have a largely out of sorts batting lineup. Both teams have decent seamers but nothing scary. Johnson could be key. If he misfires, he could give England a flyer. If he fires, he could have England in a mess very quickly.


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## strung out (Nov 17, 2010)

there gonna be a stream or audio commentary for this match tonight? fancy listening in if i can.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 17, 2010)

Will be interesting to see if we cope better than the aussies.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 18, 2010)

Bloody rain. And the aussies call this summer?


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 18, 2010)

Giving the frontline bowlers a rest is very silly, imo. Ok, it's a bit hot in Brisbane, but surely overs under the belt against players with something to prove are better use of their time.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 18, 2010)

I actually agree with the idea. You do realise there's back to back tests coming up? Don't wanna wear the bowlers out right at the start of the tour.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 18, 2010)

Oh and got to make sure your reserves are warmed up properly just incase aswell. I'd say preperations been pretty much spot on this time round.


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 18, 2010)

Depends on the bowler. I'd want Jimmy A, for instance, bowling as many overs as he could. Broad and Finn too. They're young and they need rhythm. I'm not suggesting they should be busting every sinew in Hobart, but running in rhythmically and bowling. 

That's how you get fit to bowl. Activities are very muscle-specific – you cannot exercise the muscle combos you need for bowling in a gym. Only by bowling will you strengthen your muscles appropriately. It's a point I think the current England management have wrong. Sending bowlers on 'gym weeks' is ludicrous, for instance – if you want them strengthened for bowling, get them bowling.


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 18, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Oh and got to make sure your reserves are warmed up properly just incase aswell. I'd say preperations been pretty much spot on this time round.


 
That's a fair enough point. Hopefully at least this match has served to show that of the reserves, Shahzad should be the first in line!


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 18, 2010)

I don't think Strauss would've done it if he wasn't satisfied with how the bowlers are performing.


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 18, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I don't think Strauss would've done it if he wasn't satisfied with how the bowlers are performing.


 
What does Strauss know about bowling?


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 18, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> What does Strauss know about bowling?


 
Well, we'll see.


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 18, 2010)

I'm guessing this was a decision taken by Andy Flower. Much as I like Andy Flower, and I do – it is odd how Zimbabweans seem suited to managing England – he knows fuck all about bowling too.


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 18, 2010)

Oh, another warning sign for me. In the papers today, they were praising Strauss, Bell and Pietersen for running the 5k from the ground to the hotel after the day's play. Smacks of the Gooch era, that does. I don't care if they're great cross-country runners. They could have done an hour's net and taken a taxi...


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 18, 2010)

Play has started.


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## twentythreedom (Nov 18, 2010)

monty's gone for 13, eng on 50 now... 

trott's dug his little trench - he's deffo ocd

23


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 18, 2010)

Just lost a couple of quick wickets after trott/cook were going well, good to see cook get to 60 but then got out to a lazy high shot...


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 18, 2010)

Really wouldn't like to see Robert keys forehead while i'm on drugs, that's for sure.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 18, 2010)

187/5 now, much better from collingwood/bell, trail by 43 off for rain again.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 18, 2010)

Why do channel 9 in austrailia do this? The commentators have fucked off and now our presenters are having to commentate!! What the hell is the point in showing the game if you don't stay with it until the end of the day???


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## Santino (Nov 18, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Why do channel 9 in austrailia do this? The commentators have fucked off and now our presenters are having to commentate!! What the hell is the point in showing the game if you don't stay with it until the end of the day???


 
Someone threw something on a barbie, I'll wager.


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## gabi (Nov 18, 2010)

Whose call was it to have the final warm-up in Hobart? You might as well warm up in auckland, it'd be closer to the conditions in brissie next week.

did the aussies decide this?


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## Teaboy (Nov 18, 2010)

gabi said:


> Whose call was it to have the final warm-up in Hobart? You might as well warm up in auckland, it'd be closer to the conditions in brissie next week.
> 
> did the aussies decide this?


 
Yes, apparently its a common trick.  Thats why England sent their bowlers off early.


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## gabi (Nov 18, 2010)

cant england decide where and when they warm up? im sure on rugby tours that's the case.


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## Teaboy (Nov 18, 2010)

gabi said:


> cant england decide where and when they warm up? im sure on rugby tours that's the case.


 
I guess you have input but ultimatly its up to your hosts.

Australia are our hosts, we've asked for three competative matches and they've provided, we don't get to be picky about where they're played.  Its the same for touring sides over here.


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## mattie (Nov 18, 2010)

The thinking being that any host organisation would want to maximise revenue and keep their various regions happy, so they're free to award warm-up games as they see fit.


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## twentythreedom (Nov 18, 2010)

they are dirty cheating bastards, they will do anything to maximise advantage and increase pressure, and gain a mental edge. it's the australian sportsman's way!


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 18, 2010)

Bit like scheduling a test match in Durham in May against the West Indies, then? 

Actually, no, it's nowhere near as underhand as that.


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## Teaboy (Nov 18, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Bit like scheduling a test match in Durham in May against the West Indies, then?
> 
> Actually, no, it's nowhere near as underhand as that.


 
The West Indies Cricket Board should really hang their head in shame over that one though.  After god knows how many years of trying to win the Wisdon Trophy they finally get it and then agree to a 2 test series in England in May and agree the trophy is up for grabs.  Suckers.


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## Dan U (Nov 18, 2010)

Can't wait for the Ashes, got my ticket for the MCG on Boxing Day, going with my Australian Father in Law 

we've been having a bit of banter over the last few months about the Ashes although everytime he's phoned in the last few weeks the subject hasn't come up as much 

i'm hoping that I can toast an Ashes victory at our wedding celebration on 2nd January where i will be literally the only English person in attendance *tempts fate*


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## strung out (Nov 18, 2010)

my friends are going over on monday for the first two tests. unfortunately they had to save up a load of holiday allowance for the world cup next year.


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## butchersapron (Nov 18, 2010)

paulhackett66 said:


> Ashes highlights may be on ITV4 at 10pm each night for 60 minutes...
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/nov/04/the-ashes-itv-highlights


 
Now confirmed.


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## twentythreedom (Nov 19, 2010)

mcg on boxing day? fucking bastard. jealous!!


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 19, 2010)

All out for 523, was hoping strauss would declare earlier though.


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## liquidlunch (Nov 21, 2010)

well he better get some declaring practice in old son,wont have another oppurtunity for about 3 months


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## gabi (Nov 21, 2010)

Read a pretty cool profile on ponting today in the observer. Complete with an excellent pic of him as a 12yo mulleted shane from neighbours lookalike. Can't post a link as I'm on a iPod. Anyway. Interesting to read about his background. They actually tried to change the rules after his average hit 500 odd as a kid. 

Always had a lot of respect for him, no idea why the poms go so hard at him. fear?


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## mattie (Nov 21, 2010)

gabi said:


> Read a pretty cool profile on ponting today in the observer. Complete with an excellent pic of him as a 12yo mulleted shane from neighbours lookalike. Can't post a link as I'm on a iPod. Anyway. Interesting to read about his background. They actually tried to change the rules after his average hit 500 odd as a kid.
> 
> Always had a lot of respect for him, no idea why the poms go so hard at him. fear?


 
More scared of Warne and McGrath.

It's perhaps because he comes across as unpleasant.  I bumped into him at an Ashes warm-up match at Chelmsford in 2001ish, he was rested and spent the time in the bar drinking and loudly insulting the members.  Not good.  He's certainly more mature and conducts himself a lot better nowadays, but he retains an impression of being easily riled which people will always play on - witness the whole Gary Pratt incident.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 21, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> well he better get some declaring practice in old son,wont have another oppurtunity for about 3 months


 
More like he wont need to for another 3 months, you mean.


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## liquidlunch (Nov 21, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> More like he wont need to for another 3 months, you mean.


no second prizes sonny,you dont think your lot has a chance this time
can you hear the laughter eminating from Australia


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## Santino (Nov 21, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> can you hear the laughter eminating from Australia



I heard it when Xavier Doherty was selected, yeah.


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## liquidlunch (Nov 22, 2010)

Santino said:


> I heard it when Xavier Doherty was selected, yeah.[/QUOTE
> 
> Dunno about that,your best batsman,KP,has been out to left arm orthodox spinners 17 times in 60 odd testsHauritz has been hanging on by the skin of his teeth to his spot so it was no suprise really.Steve Smith is in the wings as well,has been playing an all rounders role but a ripper of a left hand leggy.
> You blokes want to look out when he arrives full time


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 22, 2010)

'best batsmen' er, not on current form mate!  Btw whats the weather forecast for the 1st day of the ashes?


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## Santino (Nov 22, 2010)

liquidlunch;11260247][QUOTE=Santino said:


> I heard it when Xavier Doherty was selected, yeah.



Dunno about that,your best batsman,KP,has been out to left arm orthodox spinners 17 times in 60 odd testsHauritz has been hanging on by the skin of his teeth to his spot so it was no suprise really.Steve Smith is in the wings as well,has been playing an all rounders role but a ripper of a left hand leggy.
You blokes want to look out when he arrives full time[/QUOTE]

All banter aside, it's a real indication of crisis if the selectors are picking a bowler because they think he'll trouble one batsman.


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## Teaboy (Nov 22, 2010)

Looks like Clarke's fucked.  His back is still giving him trouble, they've drafted in someone else I've never heard of.


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## Lord Camomile (Nov 22, 2010)

I'll be trying to keep up with this, but I don't think I'll be interested until it's 2005 again.


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## Idaho (Nov 22, 2010)

Definitely can't write off the Australians, but I think the series is there for England to win.

It's all about the England top order. I think we have a decent bowling line-up. The starting 4 + 3 good back-ups are all Test standard. But our batting is always fragile. Not convinced by Cook. I think we should have moved Trott up to opener and had an extra bowler. No point adding extra batsmen to compensate for out of form batsmen. Take the out of form batsmen out the side and have a balanced team.


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## gabi (Nov 22, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Btw whats the weather forecast for the 1st day of the ashes?


 
It's brisbane. what do u think? it's sunny and hot in the middle of winter, let alone late november.

i went into the bookies last night to lose money on the City game. took a glance at the ashes odds. England were at 13/8. unbelievable. all bullshit aside i think the poms are gonna whitewash this. im gonna stick a crafty hundred quid on this.


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## Idaho (Nov 22, 2010)

I think a whitewash is unlikely. Looking back through the last 20 years of Test match results in Australia, there are a decreasing number of draws. Perhaps groundsmen are producing result pitches? Sydney and Perth seem the two grounds most likely to produce a draw. I think the series will be 2-2 or 3-1 to England.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 22, 2010)

gabi said:


> It's brisbane. what do u think? it's sunny and hot in the middle of winter, let alone late november.
> 
> .


 
Was just wondering cause i heard on the news a few weeks ago there would be more rain than normal over the next couple of months or so over in Austrailia, but wasn't sure where abouts they meant.


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## liquidlunch (Nov 22, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> 'best batsmen' er, not on current form mate!  Btw whats the weather forecast for the 1st day of the ashes?


 
minimum of 19cel up to 26cel.Possible showers and about 60-75% humidity.Balmy queensland day,ball will be skidding thru and moving about a bit for the seamers.
Khawaja has a first class average of 50.44 from 23 innings,23 years old,left hander,thats all i know about him


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 22, 2010)

gabi said:


> It's brisbane. what do u think? it's sunny and hot in the middle of winter, let alone late november.
> 
> i went into the bookies last night to lose money on the City game. took a glance at the ashes odds. England were at 13/8. unbelievable. all bullshit aside i think the poms are gonna whitewash this. im gonna stick a crafty hundred quid on this.


 
I think they're ok odds, no more than that. England's batting could fail. The likes of Johnson or Bollinger could run through the England order. 

Then again, they may well not. But I wouldn't be putting money on it.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 22, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> minimum of 19cel up to 26cel.Possible showers and about 60-75% humidity.


 
Thanks!


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 22, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> minimum of 19cel up to 26cel.Possible showers and about 60-75% humidity.Balmy queensland day,ball will be skidding thru and moving about a bit for the seamers.


 
So just like a typical mid-summer day in England, then. So much for needing acclimatisation.


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## Santino (Nov 22, 2010)

The BBC forecast for Brisbane says showers and 'sunny spells', which implies cloud cover even if it's not raining.


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 22, 2010)

Humid, cloud cover. Ooooo, dilemma – do you do the sensible  thing if you win the toss, and bat, or do you take a chance on Jimmy A getting some swing first up? Hmmmm.


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## Santino (Nov 22, 2010)




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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 22, 2010)

Is that one of the Chappels on the far left? He looks like he's never seen anyone toss a coin before ever and it's really amazing.

Nasser's desperately trying to look like he's not bothered. And failing...


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## Idaho (Nov 22, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Humid, cloud cover. Ooooo, dilemma – do you do the sensible  thing if you win the toss, and bat, or do you take a chance on Jimmy A getting some swing first up? Hmmmm.


 
At Brisbane, you bat.


----------



## embree (Nov 22, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I think a whitewash is unlikely. Looking back through the last 20 years of Test match results in Australia, there are a decreasing number of draws. Perhaps groundsmen are producing result pitches? Sydney and Perth seem the two grounds most likely to produce a draw. I think the series will be 2-2 or 3-1 to England.


 
I think it's more to do with the Australian team and their style of playing the game - with the players they had over the last 15 years they were able to go out all guns blazing and practically eliminate the draw. They either won or, if it went wrong, they lost.

Anyway, given the ignorant comments we usually hear about foreign born (African or Asian) players in the England side, I'll be fascinated to hear what Australians have to say about someone born in Islamabad wearing the baggy green


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2010)

They're the real empire 11 - how did border think he landed on that fatal shore?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 22, 2010)

Ticket prices for the first test: AU$30–80. Whole series live on free-to-air telly. 

How it should be. Oh that English cricket were not run by such a bunch of cunts.


----------



## embree (Nov 22, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> They're the real empire 11 - how did border think he landed on that fatal shore?


 
Clarrie Grimmett, Russell Crowe, Phar Lap - Australian icons


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2010)

The only bad thing about the ashes is having to read peter roebuck.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 22, 2010)

I like his columns.


----------



## embree (Nov 22, 2010)

embree said:


> Clarrie Grimmett, Russell Crowe, Phar Lap - Australian icons


 
Andrew Symonds, Kepler Wessels, AC/DC - fair dinkum Aussies


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2010)

He's treacherous filth.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 22, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> He's treacherous filth.


 
I know, I know. But he writes good columns.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2010)

Btw, prediction by weds night please people.

Edit: results for each ground if you're feeling well confident


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 22, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I know, I know. But he writes good columns.


 
He understands some parts of cricket (the technical stuff) , some others, the ones that build on the other bits (spirit, collectivity)  he doesn't.


----------



## embree (Nov 22, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Btw, prediction by weds night please people.


 
5-0 England


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 22, 2010)

I really don't have a clue about this one. Stab in the dark – 3:1 England. But it could easily be the other way round. Two middling teams, basically.

ETA:

results for each ground:

Brisbane E
Perth A
Adelaide D
Sydney E
Melbourne E


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 22, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ticket prices for the first test: AU$30–80. Whole series live on free-to-air telly.
> 
> How it should be. Oh that English cricket were not run by such a bunch of cunts.


 
Yes, but over here we don't have stupid interruptions for half n hour anymore or whatever it is, they still do.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 22, 2010)

3-1 england


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 22, 2010)

We need to win Brisbane; if that happens I reckon 4-1 to England.

No draws, our bowling and the weather is too good.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 22, 2010)

Well one thing is for certain,WE cant lose the ashes.
Beware the out of sorts Aussies.We are never more dangerous than when our backs are against the wallWatch out pommy fans,dont get too cocky

eta;all pleasant banter ends in 48 hours time,from then on its WAR.
You bunch of lilly livered,soap shy,pillow biting nancy boys(just practicing)lol


----------



## Santino (Nov 23, 2010)

I've always found the Aussies to be most dangerous when they have a settled squad, a captain with the full confidence of his country, a series of recent wins in the bag and Shane Warne, Adam Gilchrist and Glenn McGrath playing for them.


----------



## strung out (Nov 23, 2010)

my bro's taken out a sky sports sub for the ashes, so i have a feeling i'll be taking duvet/sleeping bag round there and not getting much sleep!


----------



## Santino (Nov 23, 2010)

Having read a little about Clarke's back injury, it seems Australia would be insane to pick him. If he's not able to bat in practice on the Monday before a Thursday start, would you really want to gamble on him being fit for the full five days? I can't see him playing all five Tests at any rate.


----------



## shagnasty (Nov 23, 2010)

Aggers for me on TMS the result of the series is not the most important thing but the  joy of a test series .I think the current form favours england but have watched the aussies for to long to not expect them to fight hard


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 23, 2010)

your lot are happy chappys
http://video.news.com.au/1658361764/The-sprinkler-dance


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 23, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Yes, but over here we don't have stupid interruptions for half n hour anymore or whatever it is, they still do.


 
It's been permanently interrupted from where I'm sat.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 23, 2010)

shagnasty said:


> Aggers for me on TMS the result of the series is not the most important thing but the  joy of a test series .I think the current form favours england but have watched the aussies for to long to not expect them to fight hard


 
I do love a test match.

I am thinking of not listening to any news/etc but listening to TMS on the iplayer the following day and pretending it's live. Anyone planning to do the same?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 23, 2010)

Um, no...  

But I do admire the principle


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 23, 2010)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/9220033.stm

I hope Johnson gets ripped for that tash.


----------



## embree (Nov 23, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> your lot are happy chappys
> http://video.news.com.au/1658361764/The-sprinkler-dance


 
great team spirit, good to see


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 23, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/cricket/9220033.stm
> 
> I hope Johnson gets ripped for that tash.


"Mo"vember here,blokes and some women grow tashes to raise money for kids charities


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 23, 2010)

24 hours to go before the Ashes war starts however if Nth Korea keeps bombing Sth Korea they might start a war firstIt will take the focus off our great game,the cunts those Nth Koreans


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 23, 2010)

You'll probably be thankful of it taking over the cricket coverage once we whoop your arses!


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 23, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> You'll probably be thankful of it taking over the cricket coverage once we whoop your arses!


not really old son,its not far away from here.Our media will be running the same old"poms crumble under pressure" headline that is now ingrained into our culture


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 24, 2010)

embree said:


> great team spirit, good to see



Swann's the best person to drive the spirit since I can remember.....well Cat but it wasn't all team.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

odds here on TAB sportsbet are Aust to win $2.10 Eng to win $2.85 draw $3.85
Have just put $50 on the draw


----------



## Santino (Nov 24, 2010)

Prediction: 3-1 to England.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> odds here on TAB sportsbet are Aust to win $2.10 Eng to win $2.85 draw $3.85
> Have just put $50 on the draw


 
Oooh, not so confident now are ya!!!


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

best value for me(tight bastard)safe bet i reckon,in Brisbane the first session can make or break the series,just ask Harmy


----------



## Idaho (Nov 24, 2010)

When was the last Test match drawn in Brisbane?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 24, 2010)

Idaho said:


> When was the last Test match drawn in Brisbane?


 
I don't think history is such a good guide any more. Australia no longer have the batsmen to take attacks to pieces. They will draw more games than they used to now they are mere mortals again. I think there will be periods of grinding by both sides in this series.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 24, 2010)

getting excited now!

what's on everyone's shopping list (beers, nibbles, tissues etc) for tonight's all-night session?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> getting excited now!
> 
> what's on everyone's shopping list (beers, nibbles, tissues etc) for tonight's all-night session?


 
I started drinking earlier before i had to go out, got plenty more stella's to go through.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 24, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I started drinking earlier before i had to go out, got plenty more stella's to go through.



http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/338067-stella-strength


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 24, 2010)

I've bought a Sky Player subscription. I feel _dirty_.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 24, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> I've bought a Sky Player subscription. I feel _dirty_.



well done. murdoch will be most pleased!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/338067-stella-strength


 
Have seen that, they went back up to 5.2 round here ages ago though. 

edit: Damn my mistake, havent checked it for a while and it says 5%, ah well its still good!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 24, 2010)

I'm not into cricket enough to stay up all night for it (even though I've got the next two days off work ), but I shall enjoy going to sleep to the sounds of TMS


----------



## Streathamite (Nov 24, 2010)

england to retain ashes, 2-2 series draw


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> england to retain ashes, 2-2 series draw


the eternal optimist


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

Like you can talk!


----------



## paulhackett (Nov 24, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> the eternal optimist


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 24, 2010)

42 mins to go. got polish beers (warka, tatra, tyskie), bread / butter / sausages, bag of weed, bit of base speed, SORTED!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

Don't think the test itsself starts until midnight.


----------



## gabi (Nov 24, 2010)

When's the toss? I've only got 4 beers left. This won't do.


----------



## pennimania (Nov 24, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I do love a test match.
> 
> I am thinking of not listening to any news/etc but listening to TMS on the iplayer the following day and pretending it's live. Anyone planning to do the same?


 
Yes - me 

I can't stay up late due to kids and stuff.

I love listening and letting a test grow and develop - the whole extended time thing is really important.

Thank god ( or the Beeb) for iplayer


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

I advise you to buy some more, ive got 14 left.  Can definitely tell the difference between 5.2 and 5% tonight...

edit: @gabi, obviously.


----------



## gabi (Nov 24, 2010)

Coverage starting on sky now


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

My god, its finally arrived!


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 24, 2010)

Oh fuck it. Sky cunting Player doesn't work with Ubuntu.

Bollocks, bollocks fucking fuck bollocks.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> Oh fuck it. Sky cunting Player doesn't work with Ubuntu.
> 
> Bollocks, bollocks fucking fuck bollocks.


 
Sorry to hear that! Dunno what ubuntu is though...


----------



## Santino (Nov 24, 2010)

Good morning Richie, good morning everyone.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 24, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> Oh fuck it. Sky cunting Player doesn't work with Ubuntu.
> 
> Bollocks, bollocks fucking fuck bollocks.


 
Sky mobile is free for the next month if you're totally stuck.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

If you look at the 'strauss's, the swann's the broad's' hussain says, really hate when they add the s on like that


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 24, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Sky mobile is free for the next month if you're totally stuck.


 
I'm on a £10 supermarket phone at the mo. 

On the bright side at least I don't have to listen to Botham and Nasser droning on.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 24, 2010)

<goes to change underwear>


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

Bothams good to listen to. Don't mind Nasser much.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

morning cunts,if you won the toss what would you do?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

Oooh, you used the words cunts, you're getting serious now eh?


----------



## Santino (Nov 24, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Bothams good to listen to. Don't mind Nasser much.


 
Say what you see, Beefy, say what you see.

'He'll get two runs for that.'

'He's out there.'

'Misfield.'


----------



## Santino (Nov 24, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> morning cunts,if you won the toss what would you do?


 
I'd resign the captaincy as I can't play for toffee.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 24, 2010)

Test Match Special!


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

your batting


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

you're*


----------



## badlands (Nov 24, 2010)

Strauss wins toss

150 for nought at lunch


----------



## Santino (Nov 24, 2010)

What are the chances of TMS on iPlayer being in sync with Sky pictures?


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> you're*


this is not the time for frivolity


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

70\3 i would say


----------



## Santino (Nov 24, 2010)

600/2


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 24, 2010)

24/11/2010


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> this is not the time for frivolity


 
you wanted war well now you've got it


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

Strauss should have bowled first


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 24, 2010)

Not if he elected to bat, that woud be cheating


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 24, 2010)

Yeah, you've got to bat really. Especially with your best bowler a spinner. Two down at lunch would be ok.


----------



## Santino (Nov 24, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> Strauss should have bowled first


 
He can't bowl very well, tbf.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> you wanted war well now you've got it


right then lets have a drinking war first then,opening my first beer,1,2,3 now and glug glug glug,typing one hand as i skull it,all gone(shudder).Why does the first one taste horrible.


----------



## gabi (Nov 24, 2010)

Sync it manually (if you're listening online that is) edit: at santino

Bonkers btw the winter olympics gets a sub forum and this series is a 'general sport'


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> right then lets have a drinking war first then,opening my first beer,1,2,3 now and glug glug glug,typing one hand as i skull it,all gone(shudder).Why does the first one taste horrible.


 
Started mine ages ago mate.  I know what ya mean about the first!


----------



## badlands (Nov 24, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> Strauss should have bowled first



99 times out of a hundred you bat first.

the other time you think about it long and hard

and then bat first


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 24, 2010)

Anyone got a stream for the Murdoch refuseniks?


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Started mine ages ago mate.  I know what ya mean about the first!


 yeah but its 10.15am here,had to have some brekky first,put something in me gutz.
I will catch up though cobber


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

badlands said:


> 99 times out of a hundred you bat first.
> 
> the other time you think about it long and hard
> 
> and then bat first


popular concensus was it was a good toss to lose


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

Can anyone understand this guy well?


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

australians lets us all ring joyce for she is young and free


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

Loved the anthems.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 24, 2010)

Shouldn't have anthems at cricket.


----------



## badlands (Nov 24, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> popular concensus was it was a good toss to lose



well done,

you're one up on us



let's see


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

if your not happy with the commentators try the ABC(Aust broadcasting corp)for an entertaining and unbiased stream


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Shouldn't have anthems at cricket.


 
I don't normally like it at cricket either but it worked for some reason then.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 24, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I don't normally like it at cricket either but it worked for some reason then.


passion son passion,the older you get the more it means to you


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 24, 2010)

They're not using hawkeye?!? 

Conspiracy! Conspiracy!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 24, 2010)

Here we go then, defending champs v useless tossers.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Here we go then, defending champs v useless tossers.


 
eat me


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

lol crap


----------



## badlands (Nov 25, 2010)

ouch


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2010)

Fuck's. Sake.


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Shit


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

Yyyyyyeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 25, 2010)

"Dear oh me" indeed Aggers


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 25, 2010)

bollocks


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 25, 2010)

oh my fucking good god


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

Oh dear.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 25, 2010)

Buggery


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Let's have Trott block his way to lunch.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

This is the one thing that was making me think we should bowl first, always gonna be nerves right at the start of an ashes series.


----------



## badlands (Nov 25, 2010)

early days


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

Get digging.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 25, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> They're not using hawkeye?!?
> 
> Conspiracy! Conspiracy!


 
No Hawkeye? Tut tut.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> This is the one thing that was making me think we should bowl first, always gonna be nerves right at the start of an ashes series.


 
Like with Harmison?


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

glug glug glug


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2010)

trippylondoner said:


> lol crap


 


badlands said:


> ouch


 


lord camomile said:


> fuck's. Sake.


 


santino said:


> shit


 


brixton hatter said:


> bollocks


 


twentythreedom said:


> oh my fucking good god


 


littlebabyjesus said:


> oh dear.


 


butchersapron said:


> buggery





liquidlunch said:


> yyyyyyeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss









I thought quotes counted towards the upper case limit...


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

one for nonea big wicket


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

yay were off the mark!


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

4! We're winning!


----------



## Kaye (Nov 25, 2010)

Can I add a bugger and a 'phew'. But mostly bugger?


----------



## badlands (Nov 25, 2010)

plain sailing from here


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

going well down leg side that. cheating aussies.


bloody reviews.


----------



## badlands (Nov 25, 2010)

too high


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 25, 2010)

<oxygen>


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

lol@original decision being out


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

Ooo he's playing across it.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

fucking close


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Don't do that!


----------



## badlands (Nov 25, 2010)

revised opinion

lunch

62 for 6


----------



## agricola (Nov 25, 2010)

what on earth is that on mitchell johnson's upper lip?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

It's for charidee.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

agricola said:


> what on earth is that on mitchell johnson's upper lip?


 
its "MO"vember here,a charity event where high profile people grow mo's for a childrens charity to raise money


----------



## agricola (Nov 25, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> its "MO"vember here,a charity event where high profile people grow mo's for a childrens charity to raise money


 
he should be paid to shave it off, he looks like the nasty lorry driver from a hitch-hiking horror film.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> its "MO"vember here,a charity event where high profile people grow mo's for a childrens charity to raise money


 
Do they have to grow it the whole month?  Kp's doing it too i think.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

fuckin ell

were playing with fire here....


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

!!!


----------



## agricola (Nov 25, 2010)

this is like watching a slow child paddling in a sea filled with blind sharks


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> its "MO"vember here,a charity event where high profile people grow mo's for a childrens charity to raise money


We have it here too, but it's not high profile people and it's for a prostate cancer charity.

Make of that what you will.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 25, 2010)

<fuck's sake!!>


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

Trott wont last long when Johnson comes on


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Ah yes, that famous nagging line and length.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

wicket first ball then


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Two balls and he's having a sit down.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2010)

Fucking hell, have we not won yet?

Who's performing in the half time show? Shame I won't be able to see the light show on the radio


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Fucking hell, have we not won yet?
> 
> Who's performing in the half time show? Shame I won't be able to see the light show on the radio


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Bit of a slow 20/20 game this.


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

I'd get Warne on if I was Ponting.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

Warne's on Aussie telly slagging off the tactics. Can't argue with it really. Pitch it up!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2010)

Santino said:


> I'd get Warne on if I was Ponting.


It is bizarre he didn't start with him; saving him for the power play I suppose.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

1 hour in,Watson on,fun times ahead


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> It is bizarre he didn't start with him; saving him for the power play I suppose.


 
He'll come on as supersub I think.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

Trott got away with one. Snicked behind and they didn't appeal!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

oh for fucks saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaake


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2010)

The quicker we're out the quicker we can get them out.

Or something


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

How the fuck does Watson get so many wickets?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

He was miles away from that


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Trott got away with one. Snicked behind and they didn't appeal!


 
what can i say but YYYYYeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2010)

Let's go KP Nuts!

*ahem*


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

Stop joking LC, its jinxing us.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2010)

I posted that as a response to Trott's out, h'actually


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

Santino said:


> How the fuck does Watson get so many wickets?


swinging medium/fast


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

I meant before that!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

Go on KP my son.


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> swinging medium/fast


 
He looks so harmless on tv. A walking advert for gentle medium pace.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

Santino said:


> He looks so harmless on tv. A walking advert for gentle medium pace.


gets the right length and swings it both ways at 120-130kph


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 25, 2010)

who else is drinking heavily?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> who else is drinking heavily?


 
me


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

70-2, were on a roll


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

Happy with 86-2 at lunch.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 25, 2010)

come on fellas, let's keep it together!! (applies to england team and u75 equally)


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

I haven't stopped smiling through this whole session.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

Argh. KP gone, 117-3.


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Ooohh


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

Collingwood and then bell still to come, not panic time yet.


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Plus Pryor, Swann and Broad.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

damn right.


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Great leave.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

had to duck out,walking back to my house and what do i hear,KP is gone"sniff sniff".cmon aussies


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

What would be a good score for us atm, anyone know?


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

200


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

shut it


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)




----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

With Swann on this pitch anything over 300 will do.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

Was thinking the same.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

Ok this is getting annoying....


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Booo


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

sweet siddle


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

I do hate watching us bat, bowling is more fun....


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

good bowling tho you would have to admit


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

I'm not admitting anything.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

watching your team bat is,whilst ok its better to be attacking the bat imo


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

its all happening now


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

no way am i gonna get any sleep tonight....


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

I thought Siddle would be the greatest threat. Wish I'd said earlier


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

Santino said:


> I thought Siddle would be the greatest threat. Wish I'd said earlier


 
Oh look its captain hindsight!


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

20/20


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

dedicated man,good stuff,i am the same when we are playing overseas,never miss a ball in a test


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

Santino said:


> I thought Siddle would be the greatest threat. Wish I'd said earlier


Nostrasantino


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

bell aint gunna be there long


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

He's high off of a 192, which means you maybe right.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

He's still there.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

172-4 at lunch, even/strange game.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 25, 2010)

Right, 5am and I'm going to sleep. 

172 - 4

I want to see Mr Cook with a decent ton when I awake.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

Took a while but aussies showing their true colours


----------



## fen_boy (Nov 25, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Took a while but aussies showing their true colours


 
You always do this every series. You're cursed. Siddle hat trick.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

hatrick to siddle,yehaa 197/7 lol my prediction of 200 isn't far off boys.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Nov 25, 2010)

He's got another one now! 6-43


----------



## Dr. Furface (Nov 25, 2010)

Great bit of text commentary on the BBC - "Hat-trick for Siddle and his fifth wicket - if this match was a game of chess, Siddle has just done the equivalent of flip the board over, sweep aside the pieces and nut England in the face."


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 25, 2010)

Not the end of the world. Few quick wickets tonight and aus will be sweating...


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

All set up for Finn and Swann tomorrow.


----------



## bromley (Nov 25, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Oh look its captain hindsight!


 

Not looking too good at the minute.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

Santino said:


> All set up for Finn and Swann tomorrow.


dont you mean Watson and Katich


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> dont you mean Watson and Katich


 
No 

Swann's going to have a ball.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

Actually it wasn't a bad days play considering England were 197/4 at one stage.It could have gone either way at that point.We were lucky Siddle took a quick 4 otherwise the story may have been different.Day 2 should be better for batting but when the ball starts swinging we will find out how good our boys are.
Swann may get smacked around with a bit of luck
GO AUSSIE XXX


----------



## Idaho (Nov 25, 2010)

I've always rated Siddle. He's aggressive and determined.

No big surprise about England's top order. Our batsmen are always fragile. How many times have we seen our lot make it look impossible to bat, only for the other side to come in and do the basics and easily pass our total? We just make a meal of it every time.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 25, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> You always do this every series. You're cursed. Siddle hat trick.


 
Yes a jokey comment by me is the reason we collapsed!


----------



## Dan U (Nov 25, 2010)

thats a terrible score imo, although as Boycott said on the radio, we won't actually know until they bat.

but my Aussie in laws are cock a hoop at having 250 odd to chase.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 25, 2010)

260 seems at least 100 light - but we'll have to see. Hopefully our bowlers will bowl to plan and with discipline. I don't want to wake up tomorrow morning and see 340-3 or some such.


----------



## Dan U (Nov 25, 2010)

i'm going abroad tonight for the weekend, i don't fancy my chances of getting many cricket updates in Germany.

guess i'm going to have to take it on the chin and whack my 'roaming data' on every morning for a bit and catch up.


----------



## gabi (Nov 25, 2010)

apparently its the best start england's made on a first day in australia. which is quite telling in itself.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

gabi said:


> apparently its the best start england's made on a first day in australia. which is quite telling in itself.


 
Really? 235 ahead, Australia with all 10 wickets in hand? By the end of day two, England could be in deep, deep trouble.


----------



## gabi (Nov 25, 2010)

well yeh, i heard them saying that on 5live this morning, they didnt elaborate. maybe most runs scored.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

Win the toss and bat on a decent wicket, and only score 260, particularly after getting through a tricky morning session with just 2 down. That's a terrible day.


----------



## gabi (Nov 25, 2010)

it could be worse.

my money (literally) is still on the poms.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

I agree with Idaho – at least 100 light. I can see Australia making 400. It's a good wicket. It's spinning, so maybe Swann can do some damage. Maybe. But England collapsed to the old ball. That's not a good sign – surely you've got to prosper against the old ball in Aus.


----------



## Streathamite (Nov 25, 2010)

pretty poor. On the bright side, Bell, Pietersen and Cook - the three who worried me most - look to be getting some good form back


----------



## Idaho (Nov 25, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I agree with Idaho – at least 100 light. I can see Australia making 400. It's a good wicket. It's spinning, so maybe Swann can do some damage. Maybe. But England collapsed to the old ball. That's not a good sign – surely you've got to prosper against the old ball in Aus.


 
The Kookabura does reverse more readily when old, and Broad can be very effective in such circumstances. I'm not despairing yet. There's all to play for


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

There is, yes. But Australia won day 1. If they win day 2 as well, England are out of it. 

*cliche alert* The next session is key. *cliche alert*


----------



## Idaho (Nov 25, 2010)

Oh stop being dramatic. It's a 5 day game, and a 5 game series. Do what we hope the team does, dig in and play for the long haul.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

Not being dramatic, I don't think. Aus won day 1. More specifically, they won session 3. If they win day 2 too, they will be very short odds on winning the match. TBH 260 against those bowlers on that wicket is really, really disappointing. 

I'm not sure where your faith in Broad the super-reverser comes from.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 25, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I'm not sure where your faith in Broad the super-reverser comes from.


 
I'll preseve that quote for when he takes 6 wickets/gets slapped for 150*


*delete as appropriate.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 25, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's spinning, so maybe Swann can do some damage. Maybe. But England collapsed to the old ball. That's not a good sign – surely you've got to prosper against the old ball in Aus.


 
A major reason we won the Ashes in 2005 was reverse swing. Remember who trained our bowlers so well at this old ball skill? And in recent times he's been back in Oz preparing his native team.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

True, but Aussie conditions and the Kookie ball aren't as conducive to reverse swing as the Duke in England. I only saw the first session last night. Was Siddle reversing it appreciably later on?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 25, 2010)

As long as we don't concede a cricket score, we should be ok for the second half.


----------



## strung out (Nov 25, 2010)

heads up here about http://www.testmatchsofa.com/ which is far far superior to test match special. it's basically a bunch of cricket journalists commentating on the sky coverage, swearing and slagging off australia at every opportunity. really good fun, and great to have on over the top of the sky coverage (though there's a 10 second delay)


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

peter siddle's birthday present,you have to hand it to the lad.Broken down last year,got better,trained the fuck out of himself,lost 6-7 kilo,came back like a freight train,crushed Broads toe for a hatrick.Darren Gough took the last ashes hatrick in 1999 as it happens.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 25, 2010)

I remember Gough's hat trick really well, i woke up the whole house with my shouting when he got the third one one and i was in a bit of trouble the next day.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 25, 2010)

so, how's everyone feeling about prospects for day 2?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

Doom and gloom. The usual.


----------



## strung out (Nov 25, 2010)

it's raining in brisbane!


----------



## gabi (Nov 25, 2010)

England will win in 4 days. You heard it here first. 

Early morning rain will suit jimmy nicely btw. It'll burn off by kickoff. Sweaty.


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Quietly confident. Half an hour or so of batting and then wickets.


----------



## strung out (Nov 25, 2010)

can't see oz getting past 200 tbh


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 25, 2010)

Rain is good, rain is good.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 25, 2010)

we really our front line chaps to bring their a-game (sorry, cuntspeak, i know)


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 25, 2010)

wooaaaah, jimmy jimmy.. jimmy jimmy jimmy jimmy an-der-saaaaaahn.....


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Let's hope we hit the right areas.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 25, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> True, but Aussie conditions and the Kookie ball aren't as conducive to reverse swing as the Duke in England. I only saw the first session last night. Was Siddle reversing it appreciably later on?


 
I went to bed at 5 so didn't hear what the commentators had to say. But I suspect this is the case.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 25, 2010)

finn could potentially be awesome. the tall two need to get the length right, could be dangerous


----------



## strung out (Nov 25, 2010)

strung out said:


> can't see oz getting past 200 tbh


 
think i'm being pessimistic here. all out shortly after lunch for sub 150


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

Like Lord's 2005 but the other way around.


----------



## strung out (Nov 25, 2010)

if we get a move on, the follow on could be enforced actually


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 25, 2010)

just checked the weather in brisbane, sounds fucking ideal!!


----------



## gabi (Nov 25, 2010)

I went to bed at lunch but left the radio on. Weird fucking dreams ensued as a result. I don't think I could take a full two months of this, thank fuck I'm headin off to a country where cricket doesn't exist in a few days. It's worse than a crack habit


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

for up to date weather reports try bom.gov.au,click on queensland then brisbane radar.
maybe a light shower or two in the morning,might make the pitch a tad faster but we like that.We will probably declare tomorrow at stumps for 500-550
Keep Siddle in a cage overnight poking sticks thru the bars at him then let him loose at 10.30.Should be all over by tea.
"polishes crystal ball and returns it to cupboard next to Strauss voodoo doll"


----------



## Santino (Nov 25, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> for up to date weather reports try bom.gov.au,click on queensland then brisbane radar.
> maybe a light shower or two in the morning,might make the pitch a tad faster but we like that.We will probably declare tomorrow at stumps for 500-550
> Keep Siddle in a cage overnight poking sticks thru the bars at him then let him loose at 10.30.Should be all over by tea.
> "polishes crystal ball and returns it to cupboard next to Strauss voodoo doll"


 
Voodoo doll or realdoll?


----------



## strung out (Nov 25, 2010)

my friend's just taken this picture from the gabba http://twitpic.com/3a5to6

nice bit of cloud cover!


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 25, 2010)

late november in Brizzie always looks like that.Can be overcast for weeks,its tropical weather.Nearly wet season


----------



## strung out (Nov 25, 2010)

http://www.testmatchsofa.com/ on air now!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

strung out said:


> http://www.testmatchsofa.com/ on air now!


 
They talking about botham being a grumpy git by any chance?


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 26, 2010)

your men need to bowl a decent length.They wont get lb's or edges at the short length they are bowling


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

Been a few gifts so far, certainly. Thing is, it's an 'English length' that's needed. No excuses.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

so close on the run out! just missed.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

Direct hit was out!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

Wicket's coming.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

ssssshhhh


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

Screaming drive for 4 as I typed that


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

I can't see us getting a wicket until the next session if that.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

Wild ball that one.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

Watson's looking good. Hmmm. I haven't rated him in the past. His technique seems to have improved – playing much straighter.


----------



## Santino (Nov 26, 2010)

Get Swann on ffs


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

Yep. Not beating the bat in the way they were half an hour ago.


----------



## Santino (Nov 26, 2010)

Come on!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

please god please


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

fuck sakes.


----------



## Santino (Nov 26, 2010)

Motherfucker!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

fuck the reviews!


----------



## Santino (Nov 26, 2010)

GET OUT!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

YEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS fucking finally!!!!!!


----------



## Santino (Nov 26, 2010)

Next man in? Ponting, is it? Bats a bit, does he?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

A tweak to the review system. There are three decisions: out, not out, and umpire's decision. If it comes down to umpire's decision, the team appealing should not lose one of their referrals.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

Ah yes, now its wronged us we must tweak it.


----------



## Santino (Nov 26, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> A tweak to the review system. There are three decisions: out, not out, and umpire's decision. If it comes down to umpire's decision, the team appealing should not lose one of their referrals.



Consistent in itself, but not necessarily in keeping with the spirit of the system, which is to get rid of absolute howlers rather than ensure every marginal LBW is correctly called.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

But if it is a marginal lbw, it's not a bad decision to refer it, yet you lose another referral. I agree that, as with that one, where it's shown just to be skimming the stumps, it should be left as umpire's decision. I just don't think the side referring should be penalised.

I've thought this before, btw. It's not just sour grapes.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

Missed that 2nd wicket but don't care, important thing is we got another.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

and another!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! caught and bowled steve finn!!


----------



## Idaho (Nov 26, 2010)

Hmm.. after listening to the first hour's play last night, I am not unhappy with limiting the Aussies to 220-5. Add two wickets to that and the honours are even. Seemed that Anderson did his usual misfire session early on where he just can't get his length right. Good to hear that Finn is showing the kind of potential we have hoped for on Australian wickets, bowling quickish line and length from a great height.

The 4 bowler attack is looking a bit fragile. Especially with Swann not finding his lengths. However the non-performing batsmen are all indispensable! All the batsmen who needed a score got one, or at least half of one.



littlebabyjesus said:


> But if it is a marginal lbw, it's not a bad decision to refer it, yet you lose another referral. I agree that, as with that one, where it's shown just to be skimming the stumps, it should be left as umpire's decision. I just don't think the side referring should be penalised.
> 
> I've thought this before, btw. It's not just sour grapes.


 
Naah.. the referrals slow down the game enough. I don't want more slow downs.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 26, 2010)

I'm not too unhappy either. A few of the aussie batsmen showed they're still struggling for form and confidence - that allied to the ropey bowling of Johnson in our first innings i think means we're going to have a pretty close series. They were always going to after Swann after we decided on a 4 man attack - and he'd got on top of his length by the end.


----------



## Santino (Nov 26, 2010)

The current state of the match is still very much within the margin of luck, which is a phrase I have just invented.


----------



## strung out (Nov 26, 2010)

two good sessions tomorrow could see us in the driving seat and 100+ runs ahead. it's going to be a very important day though, and if we let australia put another 150 runs on, we're going to find it extremely tough. setting them anything over 200/250 in the fourth innings is going to be hard for them to chase.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 26, 2010)

Getting them all out for under 300 and recouping those 40 runs without loss is the key. If we do that, then we have an excellent chance. I think getting them out for under 300 will also give confidence to our batsmen, who can feel they were no way second best.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 26, 2010)

Santino said:


> The current state of the match is still very much within the margin of luck, which is a phrase I have just invented.


 
and a very good phrase it is too.we have 220/5,40 runs behind,thats fuck all in the big picture.2 days down,3 to go.We need another 150-200,gettable but not likely.You should be batting before tea then you should be out before lunch on the 4th dayWe will get the runs before lunch on the 5th."Puts crystal ball away again"


----------



## Streathamite (Nov 26, 2010)

This is actually a very finely balanced match, and if we get Hussey out quickly the pendulum swings back England's way


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

It is finely balanced, but I would not say the pendulum's swung back to England until they have a lead with lots of wickets in hand.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 26, 2010)

Did I hear correctly it's starting an 1.5 hrs earlier tonight?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

No. Half an hour earlier


----------



## mattie (Nov 26, 2010)

Did someone on this thread or elsewhere say you can get a short-term sky sports subscription for the iPhone?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 26, 2010)

If you're already a sky sports subscriber you can get it free for the next two months. Or pay £6 if not a subscriber.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

I found a very reliable stream. 

crictime.com

The first day, it connected me to the Aussie broadcast with no adverts – it just went to a widescreen view each time the ads were on, which was great.

The second day, it connected me to the Indian broadcast with the Aussie commentators. Lots of really tacky Indian ads, which is less great. But both days it was continuous coverage. And you get to hear Richie Benaud every now and then.


----------



## strung out (Nov 26, 2010)

i know i said it before, but if you're not watching it (or if you want to watch it with radio commentary over the top), then i really do recommend test match sofa. it pisses all over test match special.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 26, 2010)

i triad test match sofa but all i got was a jumble of resonating voices


----------



## DuckQuack'sEcho (Nov 26, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> i triad test match sofa but all i got was a jumble of resonating voices


 
Don't you get channel 9?

I'm anxious that Hussey could go cheaply this morning. He's generally a nervous starter. Look at the first over he faced yesterday.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 26, 2010)

get the vision from 9 but the commentary from o'feefe,maxwell and co on abc.Great broadcast,just thought i would listen to those cunts slagging us off.glad Huss finally made a few,his head is/was on the block imo,love to see him get a ton+.North needs to make a few too,but aussies generally give batsmen time to regain form,pity spinners dont fare as well


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 26, 2010)

Any decent streaming links for today?


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 26, 2010)

right, let's fuckin HAVE IT!!


----------



## Sweaty Betty (Nov 26, 2010)

has it started???


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 26, 2010)

Sweaty Betty said:


> has it started???


 
Yes!


----------



## Sweaty Betty (Nov 26, 2010)

Good i can get these twats off PES and watch some real sport!!!!!!!!!


----------



## strung out (Nov 26, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> Any decent streaming links for today?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 26, 2010)

http://uuwjzt.blogspot.com/ is working ok for me


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 26, 2010)

Jimmmyyy!!!!!!


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 26, 2010)

Aaaaaaaaaaaaarrrgh!!!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 26, 2010)

fuck fuck the reviews fuck em!


----------



## strung out (Nov 26, 2010)

Brixton Hatter said:


> http://uuwjzt.blogspot.com/ is working ok for me


 
is the one i'm using too


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

sigh. Correct decision, though. 

Good stream, ta. Nice and clear.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 26, 2010)

line and length, chaps.. line and length!!


----------



## strung out (Nov 26, 2010)

stream just died


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 26, 2010)

Go over to this. It's pixellated but reliable. 


http://crictime.com/server2.htm


Fucking fucker should be out!


----------



## strung out (Nov 27, 2010)

nice one lbj, cheers!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 27, 2010)

ugh another appeal not out.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 27, 2010)

No luck at all.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Nov 27, 2010)

Superb stream here you have to download veetle which enables the stream to play but it's safe and well worth doing as you usually get brilliant sport streams here.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 27, 2010)

Just got in and wtached th higlights -fucking hell jommy


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 27, 2010)

aussies gonna get atleast 350 the way things are going.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 27, 2010)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Superb stream here you have to download veetle which enables the stream to play but it's safe and well worth doing as you usually get brilliant sport streams here.


 
Fuck me, that is good.


----------



## strung out (Nov 27, 2010)

innit! superb stuff. didn't realise veetle worked on mac. has it always?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 27, 2010)

Most dangerous time for the auusies


----------



## strung out (Nov 27, 2010)

mark steel commentating on test match sofa now


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Nov 27, 2010)

or http://www.tvbr.net/


----------



## DuckQuack'sEcho (Nov 27, 2010)

I'm feeling a bit more comfortable now with a first innings lead and the overnight batsmen in good form.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 27, 2010)

strung out said:


> innit! superb stuff. didn't realise veetle worked on mac. has it always?


 
...and Ubuntu


----------



## Kaye (Nov 27, 2010)

That is cricket; it's why I love it and hate it. That was one immense bowling performance - no wickets.


----------



## Kaye (Nov 27, 2010)

strung out said:


> mark steel commentating on test match sofa now


What channel?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 27, 2010)

That plumb lb was frustrating. I still don't think they've got the referral system quite right.


----------



## DuckQuack'sEcho (Nov 27, 2010)

Congratulations, MEK Hussey! Good timing as well.


----------



## strung out (Nov 27, 2010)

Kaye said:


> What channel?


 
internet radio http://www.testmatchsofa.com/Listen/ like test match special but with more swearing, piss taking and calling australia jammy bastards


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 27, 2010)

This is looking ominous now. Swann is not bowling well at all.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 27, 2010)

This is where we're at our most dangerous and aus at their weakest.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 27, 2010)

DuckQuack'sEcho said:


> Congratulations, MEK Hussey! Good timing as well.


 
Aye. well done. He's got Swann right every time.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 27, 2010)

Collingwood bowling.


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 27, 2010)

this is getting frustrating!!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 27, 2010)

Fucksticks. To bed.


----------



## Lock&Light (Nov 27, 2010)

I'm getting the impression that there are some people who think England might win.


----------



## DuckQuack'sEcho (Nov 27, 2010)

Good morning session for us. Grats to Hussey for the well-timed century and Haddin has hung in there with some accelerated scoring from mid-session onwards. With a lead of 69 runs and five wickets in hand, I think this session has definitely turned the match in our favour. We just need some consolidation in the lunch to tea session.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 27, 2010)

Lock&Light said:


> I'm getting the impression that there are some people who think England might win.


England paying $6.00 for win in aus,$6.00 for draw as well.cmon aussie


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 27, 2010)

Haddin brings up his ton with a 6Hussey on 137,the boys are gunna get amongst it now,hang onto yer hats


----------



## DuckQuack'sEcho (Nov 27, 2010)

Looking pretty ominous for the poms right now.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 27, 2010)

Nightmare session(s), glad i slept through it. Would go back to sleep now if i could.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 27, 2010)

the fucking cunt is gone finally for 195


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 27, 2010)

Finn gets 6 wickets on his ashes debut, Aussies all out for 481, just glad its over. Predicting we end the day on 20-2.


----------



## 1927 (Nov 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> This is where we're at our most dangerous and aus at their weakest.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 27, 2010)

Sour grapes, I know, but Hussey _was_ plumb lbw. Well done to him and Haddin for cashing in in the afternoon, but boy were they lucky to survive the first hour.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 27, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Sour grapes, I know, but Hussey _was_ plumb lbw. Well done to him and Haddin for cashing in in the afternoon, but boy were they lucky to survive the first hour.


 
if he was plumb then why was he not given?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 27, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> if he was plumb then why was he not given?


 
Because the ball hit both pads, so the umpire heard two noises, and the umpire incorrectly decided that the first of those noises was the ball hitting the bat. 

I'm a big fan of Aleem Dar, but he got that one wrong.

And given that England lost one of their reviews yesterday to an appeal that was later proved to have been correct, I think they are entitled to feel hard done by. The review system is not working quite right yet. England did little wrong, yet a howler – and yes, it was a howler – was allowed through. That Hussey had just been reprieved by the review system for another lb shout just makes it even more galling.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 27, 2010)

I was under the impression there was a third umpire that looked at any doubtful ones as well as the field ump.


----------



## strung out (Nov 27, 2010)

the third umpire doesn't rule on lbw decisions unless it's been referred by the batting or bowling team iirc


----------



## Santino (Nov 28, 2010)

Well, well, well.


----------



## strung out (Nov 28, 2010)

great stuff so far. nice and steady boys. i don't want to wake up in the morning to a disaster.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 28, 2010)

strung out said:


> the third umpire doesn't rule on lbw decisions unless it's been referred by the batting or bowling team iirc


why didnt the batsman get it referred then.I missed it all as i went out of range for a few hours yesterday


----------



## strung out (Nov 28, 2010)

the batsmen didn't refer it because he was given not out! we didn't refer it because we'd run out of referrals (i think we lost a referral once because although it was out, there was enough doubt for it not to be given)


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 28, 2010)

oh,stiff cheese then old beanI am not gloating,far from it in fact.Your blokes have made a good start this innings,hope it doesn't last


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 28, 2010)

what a session!!


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 28, 2010)

Reassuring stuff.

Let's see if the rest of the team cangive it too.


----------



## Santino (Nov 28, 2010)

100 for Strauss. Stirring stuff, captain's innings, Empire spirit etc etc.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 28, 2010)

'Empire spirit'?! Gwaan, out --->


182-0


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 28, 2010)

What a sad way for strauss to get out, but bloody good effort by him!


----------



## Santino (Nov 28, 2010)

Unbelievable. 309-1... that's something other teams do, not England.


----------



## Dr. Furface (Nov 28, 2010)

Great comeback from England. Quite some test match this.


----------



## killer b (Nov 28, 2010)

good stuff. 

anyone else enjoying the twitter @theashes diversion?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 28, 2010)

What a day(or night?).


----------



## paulhackett (Nov 28, 2010)

Australian zipper nazis


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 28, 2010)

Glad i bet on the draw.Not often England will head into second test 0-0.We usually beat you in the first test in Brisbane,well done to Strauss and co.The thing that really gives me the shits this year is the second test starts here in Adelaide on Friday,but i have to fly out of here on Thursday for two weeks of work commitments.Really bad planning on the contractors part.


----------



## Balbi (Nov 28, 2010)

The bastards! I'm trying to get as much in as I can, sleeping early then waking up at half one and catching an hour or two.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 28, 2010)

It could all go pear-shaped on day 5 of course, but it's looking good for England. There is nothing to fear of the Aus bowlers. I think Siddle is a great trier, but if he's your best bowler, you're in trouble. How long do Aus persevere with Johnson? Is Doherty really as innocuous as he looks? 

I predict that Jimmy A will run through the Australians at least once this series. I can't see an Australian doing the same to England.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 28, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It could all go pear-shaped on day 5 of course, but it's looking good for England. There is nothing to fear of the Aus bowlers. I think Siddle is a great trier, but if he's your best bowler, you're in trouble. How long do Aus persevere with Johnson? Is Doherty really as innocuous as he looks?
> 
> I predict that Jimmy A will run through the Australians at least once this series. I can't see an Australian doing the same to England.


 
to win Test matches you have to have an attack capable of taking 20 wickets.I would swop Johnson for Bollinger and Doherty for Smith(leg spinner/allrounder).Give North his last chance and see what happens then.England have our measure at the moment


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 28, 2010)

Yep, the team with the best bowlers normally wins, the exception being Pakistan recently, whose batting has been so inept that no bowler could save them. 

Swann needs to start firing for England. And Collingwood probably won't get a single wicket all series. Other than that, I'm pleased with the performance of the seamers. They bowled well with no luck.

Bollinger has to come back for Aus, I would have thought, in place of Hifenhaus or Johnson. I'm not quite sure why he isn't playing in this one. I wonder if they were wary of two left-handers scuffing up the pitch for Swann?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 28, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> to win Test matches you have to have an attack capable of taking 20 wickets.I would swop Johnson for Bollinger and Doherty for Smith(leg spinner/allrounder).Give North his last chance and see what happens then.England have our measure at the moment


 
Whats happened to all the positivity from day 3?

eh eh eh? aussies aussies aussies eh eh eh?


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 28, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Whats happened to all the positivity from day 3?
> 
> eh eh eh? aussies aussies aussies eh eh eh?


ha ha ha,i am aaaannd always will be a proud aussie but i had my money on a drawhead before the heart when it comes to my brass
$50 at $3.85 =@192.50au on day 1.Could have got it at $6.00 on day 2


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

where's all the aussie fans?!


----------



## strung out (Nov 29, 2010)

my friend who's there has tweeted me saying we should claim the gabba as an english colony as there's no aussies there to put up a fight


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)




----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 29, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> where's all the aussie fans?!


 
back at work monday,busy time of year,dont like watching when the poms are doing ok


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> back at work monday,busy time of year,dont like watching when the poms are doing ok


 
bunch of fairweather fans


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2010)

Dropped lol


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

Trott dropped


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

oh my bad, it was cook.


----------



## strung out (Nov 29, 2010)

nah, it was trott. cook's left handed.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

thought so, bit drunk atm!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

Australia remind me of England in the 90s at the mo.


----------



## strung out (Nov 29, 2010)

did you just hear that elsewhere? my brother tweeted pretty much that exact line a couple of minutes ago to test match sofa


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 29, 2010)

England fans singing 'rule Britannia' and 'God Save The Queen' etc 

Don't we have better songs than that?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

should i still be scared of jinxing us? 

fuck it i want 700+


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> England fans singing 'rule Britannia' and 'God Save The Queen' etc


 
creates atmosphere, fuck off with your rolling eyes!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

strung out said:


> did you just hear that elsewhere? my brother tweeted pretty much that exact line a couple of minutes ago to test match sofa


 
Nope. I heard it in my brain. As did your brother.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 29, 2010)

Meh.. it just seems a bit premature, let alone imperialistic.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

skyscraper101 said:


> Meh.. it just seems a bit premature, let alone imperialistic.


 
creates atmosphere especially considering there's no aussies to banter with


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

I'd prefer it if they did the Birdie song complete with dance, tbh.

The self-styled Barmy Army get on my tits, I must say. I hate it when I have to sit next to them at a match. Although they do always keep singing, even when England are losing, which is to be admired I suppose.


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## strung out (Nov 29, 2010)

god save the queen is only good when you start singing 'god save your queen' at the aussies


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## skyscraper101 (Nov 29, 2010)

I think we should be singing 'Down Under' by Men At Work instead


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

strung out said:


> god save the queen is only good when you start singing 'god save your queen' at the aussies


 
well, there's still the aussie cricket team there i guess!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

So when do England think of pushing on for a declaration? 

They should be aiming to have a little dart at a victory, I reckon.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

not yet by any means.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

A lead of 167 with nine wickets in hand and Aus all over the place? 

Soon, I reckon. Why not? Give them a tricky 50 overs  to negotiate.


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## strung out (Nov 29, 2010)

if a dec comes, it won't be until halfway through the afternoon session.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

the pitch is piss easy to bat on, they'll win easily if we declare anytime soon, i say depress them by making them field/bowl all day and look forward to the next test on friday.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

easy easy easssssssssssssssy


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

The pitch is cracking up. The ball is old, the bowlers are tired and demoralised, the batsmen are brimming with confidence. 

It could all look very different when Aus bat. I'm not saying they should set a silly declaration, but why not try to win it?


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

Because we are not gonna get 10 wickets in two sessions on this pitch.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

stupid typo's


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## strung out (Nov 29, 2010)

apparently boycott just did a 'your mum' joke on tms


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Because we are not gonna get 10 wickets in two sessions on this pitch.


 
Could do. England used to succumb in such circumstances! It has happened. More than once. And England are nearly 200 ahead with nine wickets in hand. They should come out slogging after lunch. Why not? If it goes wrong, you block for a bit and take the draw.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

Trust me, wont happen. Would give the test to the aussies.


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

It would not! Set them 280–300 by slogging for half an hour after lunch. No chance Aus would win. 

I doubt Strauss will do it because he is too conservative, but it's what I would be looking to do. They have to be looking to at least have a go at winning.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

On Sky they're talking about just giving them an 'awkward' 35 overs. I think that's wrong. I'll be very disappointed if they do that. They have to adjust their sights – Aus are all over the place, so push hard and give them 50 overs. Genuinely try to win!


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

Mate, the pitch is a batting pitch. We'll give the aussies the test if we declare now. That's why the commentators are saying that. Iit'll be a dream to chase 200 right now.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

Fuck the win. I want the aussies to suffer and the aussie tabloids to come out with chaotic headlines tmrw.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

cook 200!


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Mate, the pitch is a batting pitch. We'll give the aussies the test if we declare now. That's why the commentators are saying that. Iit'll be a dream to chase 200 right now.


 
I'm not saying declare now! That would be mad. But slog for a few overs after lunch, then declare with a lead of 300. Yes.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

Has any team ever got 500-1 before?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

trott 100!


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## strung out (Nov 29, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Has any team ever got 500-1 before?


 
sri lanka, 615/1 against india


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

Right to bed. But I really really really really really want them to push for a declaration now...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

strung out said:


> sri lanka, 615/1 against india


 
ah, those bastards.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 29, 2010)

Love how one of those guys in the 1924 england team has my surname (chapman)


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## liquidlunch (Nov 29, 2010)

you weak bunch of pommy bastards,wouldn't dare leave us something we could chasethank fuckim going out for a big slap up meal washed down by gallons of draught and i owe it all to england.Im betting on a draw in the next test too,thanks boys


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## Teaboy (Nov 29, 2010)

Well, I'm really sure what to make of that test.  It looked like oz had it won but then spent the last 2 days looking like a village team.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Nov 29, 2010)

Gotta say, I'm honestly a little disappointed we didn't give 'em more of a sniff of the chase; I know it was a 'batting pitch' but fuck it, give them a tiny chance of salvaging, then go toe to toe for the whole of the Australian innings. Lays down a marker for the rest of the series - "we want it all " 

Still, from where we were it's a decent result (I suppose  )


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## Teaboy (Nov 29, 2010)

It looks like the aussie selectors have seen enough and are already ringing the changes.  Bollonger and Ryan Harris (who he?) have been called up to the squad.  I reckon there is a real chance of them not playing a front line spinner in the next match, 5 seamers and North doing the spinning?


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## The Octagon (Nov 29, 2010)

Should have batted them into oblivion, let Cook get his 300 and make them field until their feet ached.

Instead we let Ponting get his confidence back up with quick runs.

Considering how we started the match I'm happy, but we could have struck a proper psychological blow there.


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## fen_boy (Nov 29, 2010)

But if we'd have nicked 4 or 5 wickets it would have been even more demoralising for the Aussies. A good decision that didn't work out exactly as planned. England are very much the happier side at the moment. The Aussies were a shambles and Ponting's 50 was just pissing in the wind.


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## Idaho (Nov 29, 2010)

Well fancy that... 

You have to wonder if we can afford the 4 bowler strategy with these wickets and with our batsmen showing some form. Collingwood replaced by Tremlett, Rashid or Shazad?


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## Dan U (Nov 29, 2010)

a great draw. the texts from the inlaws have stopped

for that, i am greatful.


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## Teaboy (Nov 29, 2010)

I think when you have the two highest partnerships ever for a ground in the same match you'd probably have to say it was a very flat pitch.  The Aussies probably were the better team for 3 days, with England winning the last couple.

Not much else to say apart from Adelaide will probably be flat as well so another draw seems likely.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 29, 2010)

Monty in for Collingwood?


----------



## strung out (Nov 29, 2010)

i wouldn't bring another spinner in. if colly were to go, i'd bring in one of the seamers


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## liquidlunch (Nov 29, 2010)

We went in the first test with 3 first change bowlers,Bollinger and Harris are new ball men.Harris took 9/140 against Queensland a fortnight ago but had a slight knee prob so he was overlooked.If him and bollinger have the new ball with Sidds and Hilffy backing them up we still have Watson and North to go.Adelaide will be a grassy pitch with the temp expected to be aroung 33cel on friday.It will be fast as fuck out there.


----------



## Streathamite (Nov 29, 2010)

A lot of positives for England there; Cook, trott, bell and strauss finding excellent form, Pietersen showing a return of some form, now we just need to get the bowlers growling nore


----------



## London_Calling (Nov 29, 2010)

Seems the convicts have a couple of medium/fast alternatives but that's all. No spinner of merit though.

Huge psychological victory: Now to  grind them into the dirt.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2010)

_Make them grovel_


----------



## London_Calling (Nov 29, 2010)

Is it 1976 again?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

Can't see England changing anything. The talk seemed to be of bringing Bresnan in anyway, which would be a waste of time. Collingwood can block an end for five overs. 

Aus have brought in Bollinger and Ryan Harris. I presume that both will play and Johnson and Doherty will drop out. No worries there – although I will be sad to see Johnson and Doherty go, their replacements are hardly intimidating. On a good Adelaide pitch, England should not lose 20 wickets to any combination of this lot.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 29, 2010)

I think we need to see more than two days on a dead wicket to declare all England batting weaknesses a thing of the past.

I was listening to TMS last night in my sleep. I had the earphone in one ear, waking up intermittently to hear a ball or two.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 29, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Monty in for Collingwood?


 
I don't think any of the batsmen are droppable at the moment. They'll play the same team again pending injuries.


----------



## Streathamite (Nov 29, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I think we need to see more than two days on a dead wicket to declare all England batting weaknesses a thing of the past.


granted, but nowt wrong with being positive


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

No way they'll bring Monty in. He might play at Sydney, maybe. I can actually see England playing an unchanged team for the whole series, injuries permitting.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 29, 2010)

I hope they do play an unchanged team - hopefully that will mean we are winning.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 29, 2010)

Am I alone in thinking Punter looks like an ill man?

A tortoise without it's shell.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

He does put upon very well. I'm with him over that catch, though. It is about time they stopped referring catches to the TV. I've never seen a decision go in favour of the fielder – referring to TV is tantamount to giving it not out.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2010)

We need to get rid of referrals or make them for each decision. Or done by a third ump on his call.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 29, 2010)

At the very least, the normal presumption of doubt going the batsman's way needs to be reversed with disputed catches – if the TV cannot clearly show the ball bouncing, it's out.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2010)

I was listening to TMS in the break between the declaration and them coming out and i forget who it was made a devastating argument for getting rid by picking 4 key points of the game. Not a very useful post i know.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 29, 2010)

I think the technology should be used, but not sure if referals are the best way to do it.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2010)

I should say the argument was not for getting rid, but for deciding on using them for all or none. My mistake above.


----------



## Idaho (Nov 29, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I should say the argument was not for getting rid, but for deciding on using them for all or none. My mistake above.


 
What's the difference between "getting rid" and "using them for... none"?


----------



## Santino (Nov 29, 2010)

The Australian press is brilliantly churlish about it all.


----------



## strung out (Nov 29, 2010)

from the brisbane courier and mail this morning...


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 30, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Can't see England changing anything. The talk seemed to be of bringing Bresnan in anyway, which would be a waste of time. Collingwood can block an end for five overs.
> 
> Aus have brought in Bollinger and Ryan Harris. I presume that both will play and Johnson and Doherty will drop out. No worries there – although I will be sad to see Johnson and Doherty go, their replacements are hardly intimidating. On a good Adelaide pitch, England should not lose 20 wickets to any combination of this lot.


i think your getting a bit ahead of yourself,you get a draw and suddenly your the best team hereIf you dont think Harris and Bollinger are non intimadating you have made a very very big mistake.Hilfenhaus,Siddle and Johnson are all first change bowlers,these two are opening quicks.I will bet you London to a brick the story will be different in the second test.Your mob will be very lucky if they get a draw


----------



## strung out (Nov 30, 2010)

the adelaide advertiser...


----------



## Idaho (Nov 30, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> i think your getting a bit ahead of yourself,you get a draw and suddenly your the best team hereIf you dont think Harris and Bollinger are non intimadating you have made a very very big mistake.Hilfenhaus,Siddle and Johnson are all first change bowlers,these two are opening quicks.I will bet you London to a brick the story will be different in the second test.Your mob will be very lucky if they get a draw


 
'Tis the nature of English sport. We are either the best in the world, or we are absolutely rubbish. Often within the same 5 minutes.

The talk from Adelaide is of them preparing a 'result' wicket. I think that will favour your batsmen and our bowlers. I don't doubt that Harris and Bollinger are good bowlers, but I wouldn't want to face Broad and Finn on a fast bouncy track. Broad is perfecting the suprise bouncer.


----------



## DrRingDing (Nov 30, 2010)

http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/30112010/28/bollinger-harris-added-test-squad.html

Bollinger and Harris now in the squad.


----------



## Streathamite (Nov 30, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> Your mob will be very lucky if they get a draw


 given that that is your default position before every single test austra.lia play - even if it's against the zimbabwean senior citizens second XI - forgive me if I am not sent reeling backwards by the sheer force of your insight


----------



## Streathamite (Nov 30, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> .Im betting on a draw in the next test too,thanks boys


especially as you also said this!


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

I feel a ponting montage coming on


----------



## Santino (Nov 30, 2010)




----------



## Idaho (Nov 30, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> especially as you also said this!


 
He doesn't think we will get a draw. However his money is on a draw.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 30, 2010)

I notice peter Roebuck has reclaimed his Aussie citizenship once more - after his brief flirtation with being a south african then a kiwi (after, of course, previously being a pom).

Last night this read as



> AUSTRALIA have been cooked and served up for supper. Our bowlers have been taken apart by an opponent that usually departs from Brisbane in a state of shock.



Changed by this morning. What a rat.


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 30, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> especially as you also said this!


Yes i didThe reason being that at the moment i am living in Adelaide but i have to fly out to work on Thursday morningIf i cant enjoy a test match with a result why should anyone else
"sulks off with bag"

some news about the pitch
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...produce-a-result/story-fn67x4c9-1225962879570


----------



## paulhackett (Nov 30, 2010)

Idaho said:


> The talk from Adelaide is of them preparing a 'result' wicket.



No point in preparing a result wicket if Johnson can't land the ball on it..


----------



## twentythreedom (Nov 30, 2010)

doubt he'll even be there


----------



## liquidlunch (Nov 30, 2010)

paulhackett66 said:


> No point in preparing a result wicket if Johnson can't land the ball on it..




http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...produce-a-result/story-fn67x4c9-1225962879570


----------



## paulhackett (Nov 30, 2010)

Noises are one change only for Australia - Harris for Hilfenhaus..


----------



## Santino (Nov 30, 2010)

I'm tipping Johnson as my England player of the series.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 1, 2010)

paulhackett66 said:


> Noises are one change only for Australia - Harris for Hilfenhaus..


betcha my left agget that Bollinger is in for Johnson,reckon Harris will take Dohertys place


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

Johnson should be kept, he won't be - he'll be angry as fuck. He's shit though.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 1, 2010)

Santino said:


> I'm tipping Johnson as my England player of the series.


 
he has to go back to the state side to get his mojo back


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 1, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Johnson should be kept, he won't be - he'll be angry as fuck. He's shit though.


 
2009 international cricketer of the year


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

Get a new flower tattooed. No anchors or maidens.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> 2009 international cricketer of the year


 
140 runs, no wickets, dropped catch 0 runs scored.

He should be kept. He's got 5 good overs in him


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 1, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Get a new flower tattooed. No anchors or maidens.


 
MAIDENS???? you would be battling to find one of those over here matemost blokes wouldn't even know what one was


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 1, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> 140 runs, no wickets, dropped catch 0 runs scored.
> 
> He should be kept. He's got 5 good overs in him


 how could you go downhill that fast?Fucking family trouble,mother hates girlfriend,i would give mum the arsehe lost confidence in his ability,dont worry he will be back and you will be sorry


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> MAIDENS???? you would be battling to find one of those over here matemost blokes wouldn't even know what one was


 
If he's kept, he's going to have one great session - if it comes early it'll settle him down for the series. I think he's a good bowler. I wouldn't drop him. Yet.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> how could you go downhill that fast?Fucking family trouble,mother hates girlfriend,i would give mum the arsehe lost confidence in his ability,dont worry he will be back and you will be sorry


 
Amazing series of off ground stuff i agree.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 1, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> If he's kept, he's going to have one great session - if it comes early it'll settle him down for the series. I think he's a good bowler. I wouldn't drop him. Yet.


 you wouldn't drop him because your'e an englishman but this is a serious situation we have here.We cannot afford to have a frontline bowler spraying it all over the joint or bowling pies to blokes who have their collective tails up.We intend to take the Ashes back to their rightful resting place and Mitch aint contributing at the moment.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

I'd keep him full stop - failure of aussie nerve if they don't.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 1, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I'd keep him full stop - failure of aussie nerve if they don't.


bollox,we have options,Bollinger being a left arm quick who is straining at the leash to get at your boys.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

ah, you running scared then, we batted your only strike bowler out of the series after one game...


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 1, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> ah, you running scared then, we batted your only strike bowler out of the series after one game...


 where do you get your strange ideas from?You rescue one match,just one match against us and now you are world beaters.See how you go after Adelaide old son,looking forward to some rerun excuses


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

I like you, you're a good lad - hope the contract falls through (in a good way, not in a shit i'm unemployed way) and you can be in A when we take the city


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 1, 2010)

thanks,i love the game as i suspect you do too.Its a great rivalry and i love to banter with civilised people about the biggest prize in cricket,to us anyway.Have seen the last 2 tests here in their entireity so i cant complain.I have to do this job,there is no way out of itI work in oilfield transportation(moving rigs etc etc)To much money involved for drill rigs to be sitting around doing fuck all while i sit in me deck chair sucking piss,watching us give it to the oppressors[


----------



## Idaho (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm looking forward to seeing the two new Aussie quicks. The pressure will really be on them to perform. If they don't come out the blocks cleanly there will be a ripple of panic in the Australian camp - who else do they have in reserve? Could they change it all again?


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2010)

I agree that if Johnson plays the rest of the series he'd probably run through the England batting line up once. But is it worth carrying him for a couple of Tests where he does nothing but leak runs just for that chance?


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2010)

According to the BBC's round-up of gossip, Johnson has been dropped, and has not yet been dropped.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 1, 2010)

Johnson's Australia's Harmison. Talented, done it in the past, not physically past it, no other bowler available who is potentially as hostile. But fuck me, when he's bad, he's awful, and his self-belief is really fragile.

I'd drop him not just because he was erratic in the last test – I'd live with that. But he wasn't very fast. And if Johnson can't bowl fast, there's really no point to him.


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2010)

I wonder if the pressure to be a kind of Flintoff figure - big hitter as well as strike bowler - hasn't made it worse. 

From a completely unscientific perspective - he doesn't LOOK like an all-rounder, he looks like a fast bowler. He's never convinced me as a batsman because he's all flailing limbs.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 1, 2010)

Santino said:


> I wonder if the pressure to be a kind of Flintoff figure - big hitter as well as strike bowler - hasn't made it worse.
> 
> From a completely unscientific perspective - he doesn't LOOK like an all-rounder, he looks like a fast bowler. He's never convinced me as a batsman because he's all flailing limbs.



I know what you mean. A bit like how Broad will only ever be a cameo batsmen and not a genuine all-rounder.

Talking of Bollinger - anyone notice the similarity between him and Mr Tumble?

Mr Tumble:






Bollinger:


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I know what you mean. A bit like how Broad will only ever be a cameo batsmen and not a genuine all-rounder.
> 
> Talking of Bollinger - anyone notice the similarity between him and Mr Tumble?
> 
> ...


 
You've inadvertently mixed your pictures up there, suggesting that the two are so similar that even you are unable to tell them apart. HTH.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 1, 2010)

Yes I did. It is a comedic convention when posting lookalike pics, most likely originating in Private Eye. Like all conventions it isn't that funny, and is rendered less funny by you pointing it out.


----------



## strung out (Dec 1, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I know what you mean. A bit like how Broad will only ever be a cameo batsmen and not a genuine all-rounder.


 
don't agree with that, broad has actually got some real batting talent. if he focussed on his batting (not suggesting he should, mind) he could easily be a test 5 or 6


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

Merv brilliantly stuck in the past - you tell 'em Custer.



> "It was a disappointing final day to an exciting Test match. England, with everything to play for on day five and a chance to win the first Test in the series, squibbed it,"
> 
> "Are they happy to play for a draw in every Test? Were they protecting their tail, which starts after Kevin Pietersen?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 1, 2010)

That's almost delusional.


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2010)

Any more sightings of 'Australia probably value series against South Africa and India more than England' articles?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 1, 2010)

When I was a kid, I always looked forward to the West Indies series above all. Ashes was very much second-best to the Windies.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 1, 2010)

reported on the news here(adelaide) Johnson will be the drinks steward in Adelaide,been pissing down here as well.Had 20mm/nearly an inch in 1 hour this afternoon.More coming tomorrow
http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/th...-for-second-test/story-fn67xbkx-1225964061861


----------



## Idaho (Dec 1, 2010)

That's because the Windies pace attack was something to behold. Especially on the quick wickets we used to get in this country.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 1, 2010)

Yep, West Indies bowlers were thrilling to watch. All my bowling heroes as a kid were West Indians. That's what I love about cricket, that you can support one team and have heroes in the opposition team at the same time.

I don't remember really caring especially about the Ashes at all. There was West Indies, then there was everybody else.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 1, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> reported on the news here(adelaide) Johnson will be the drinks steward in Adelaide,been pissing down here as well.Had 20mm/nearly an inch in 1 hour this afternoon.More coming tomorrow
> http://www.perthnow.com.au/sport/th...-for-second-test/story-fn67xbkx-1225964061861


 
Something I like about the Aussie cricketing culture is that there's no shame in that. Brett Lee was 12th man for about 2 years at one point, wasn't he. No shame, no need to sulk, not a sign that they no longer believe in him.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 1, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Merv brilliantly stuck in the past - you tell 'em Custer.


 
I saw him stuffing his face at Edgbaston once. Huge bastard and ate like a pig.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 1, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep, West Indies bowlers were thrilling to watch. All my bowling heroes as a kid were West Indians. That's what I love about cricket, that you can support one team and have heroes in the opposition team at the same time.
> 
> I don't remember really caring especially about the Ashes at all. There was West Indies, then there was everybody else.


 
Yep, I was pretty much the same.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

What's wrong with you two?


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2010)

Liberals, no doubt.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 1, 2010)

Yeah yeah, Randall down under, Botham at Headingley, etc, etc. It mattered just like all tests mattered. But the West Indies were _special_.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

Racism as well as liberalism!


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 1, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> bollox,we have options,Bollinger being a left arm quick who is straining at the leash to get at your boys.


isn't he still recovering from injury?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

Yep - two of their potential changes are both unfit.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 1, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> isn't he still recovering from injury?


 
No, his hair's grown back now.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 1, 2010)

I'm about the same age as lbj and I remember at school that the Windies were the big one.  As well as the glamour of their bowlers, I wonder if it was also because Australia were so out of sight at that time that the Ashes were a bit of a pointless procession that we'd rather ignore.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 1, 2010)

You're a bit younger than me, I think. When I first started following cricket, the Packer circus was just coming to an end, the era of Lillee and Thomson was nearly over and Australia weren't really very good.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 1, 2010)

kabbes said:


> I'm about the same age as lbj and I remember at school that the Windies were the big one.  As well as the glamour of their bowlers, I wonder if it was also because Australia were so out of sight at that time that the Ashes were a bit of a pointless procession that we'd rather ignore.


 
Probably more to do with the success and fame of the West Indian team, combined with a large domestic WI supporter base. Australia only became big again in the UK with the increase in Aussie soaps and the increase in Australians working here - late 80's?


----------



## kabbes (Dec 1, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You're a bit younger than me, I think. When I first started following cricket, the Packer circus was just coming to an end, the era of Lillee and Thomson was nearly over and Australia weren't really very good.


 
Fair enough.

I remember that when we used to play cricket with a tennis ball in the playground, we would shout "Ambrose" and high-ten each other when we bowled somebody out.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 1, 2010)

Blimey, you're a mere child.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 1, 2010)

On my birthday, when I am feeling death's cold finger beckoning me forward, it's good to hear that


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 1, 2010)

When I was ten I wanted to be Michael Holding, but I'd have setting for being Bob Willis. 

'Come on Bob!' was the cry from my childhood, every time he started that long, straight, awkward run-up.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 1, 2010)

my first recollection of test match cricket was when Basil D'olivera was captain of the poms.I thought it strange that a sth african could captain England,my,how times haven't changed


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 1, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> my first recollection of test match cricket was when Basil D'olivera was captain of the poms.I thought it strange that a sth african could captain England,my,how times haven't changed


 
Ouch, what a painful cheap shot!!


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 1, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> my first recollection of test match cricket was when Basil D'olivera was captain of the poms.I thought it strange that a sth african could captain England,my,how times haven't changed


Dolly captained england? 
You do know, btw, dolly's circs were quite unusual and rather different to those of KP, Trott, Greig etc?


----------



## embree (Dec 1, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> my first recollection of test match cricket was when Basil D'olivera was captain of the poms.I thought it strange that a sth african could captain England,my,how times haven't changed


 
You do realise that Andrew Strauss has two English parents and has lived in England since he was a baby?


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> my first recollection of test match cricket was when Basil D'olivera was captain of the poms.I thought it strange that a sth african could captain England,my,how times haven't changed


 
At least our Prime Minister was born here.

The cunt.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 1, 2010)

clegg is a cunt too, just in case you haven't heard


----------



## Santino (Dec 1, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> clegg is a cunt too, just in case you haven't heard


 
I believe my position on this issue is a matter of Urban record. 



Santino said:


> Clegg is a cunt.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 2, 2010)

Santino said:


> At least our Prime Minister was born here.
> 
> The cunt.


 
ours was born there too     the cunt


----------



## paulhackett (Dec 2, 2010)

Johnson dropped.. 


> "In the last game I was trying to do all that work [on my action] during a game, which is obviously very hard to do," he said. "In the end, I need to work things out, go to net sessions, get back in the gym, get my head straight, and get back into the team."


 That's a pity. Makes you wonder why he was picked in the first place if his heads in such a mess.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 2, 2010)

Bunny's been dropped.



Going to miss him


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 2, 2010)

my first cricket memory was Robin Smith being the sole resistance against the Windies in 1991... was probably my first sporting hero...


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> my first recollection of test match cricket was when Basil D'olivera was captain of the poms.I thought it strange that a sth african could captain England,my,how times haven't changed


 
Did Kepler Wessels ever captain the aussies?  Can't be bothered to look it up.


----------



## gabi (Dec 2, 2010)

listening to five live this morning, as a neutral, as a cricket fan, it was fucking hilarious listening to the triumphalism of english players, commentators and of course the barmy army...

they got a draw!!! when they were hot favourites against a team totally out of sorts!! WOOHOO!!


----------



## mattie (Dec 2, 2010)

gabi said:


> listening to five live this morning, as a neutral, as a cricket fan, it was fucking hilarious listening to the triumphalism of english players, commentators and of course the barmy army...
> 
> they got a draw!!! when they were hot favourites against a team totally out of sorts!! WOOHOO!!



They finished 517 for 1, after making 260 in their first innings.  Some turnaround.

Not sure who made them 'hot favourites' either.


----------



## gabi (Dec 2, 2010)

The british media did for one. As did I.. 

They're clearly a better side on paper. A draw should be a disappointment.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

Just to clear the South African thing up, Strauss and Prior are no more South African than Andrew Symonds is a Brummie. 

Trott and Pietersen, however, are thoroughly South African.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 2, 2010)

Oh come on gabi - only a team with Warne and Murali in their prime could have got a result in 5 days on that wicket. They were happy because they got out of what seemed like a grim situation, and ended the match on a high, while the Aussies had 2 grim days of frustration. Drawn Test matches are all about winning the mind game, especially at the start of a series. It's important that we feel like we won, and that they feel like they didn't.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

I don't really agree. The whole course of a Test match can be changed by one moment. To me, that moment was Hussey surviving Anderson's appeal when caught plumb in front, having just overturned a previous decision. Anderson could have run through the Aussies very quickly had that decision gone England's way, and the teams would have been about level after the first innings with over half the match left.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

gabi said:


> listening to five live this morning, as a neutral, as a cricket fan, it was fucking hilarious listening to the triumphalism of english players, commentators and of course the barmy army...
> 
> they got a draw!!! when they were hot favourites against a team totally out of sorts!! WOOHOO!!


 
As an england fan I'm also somewhat surprised by the media / fan reaction, if I didnt know the score I'd assume Engalnd had won by an innings.  The cascade of shit heaped on the aussies (by their own fans / media) also seems bizarre.

Some cold facts here, Australia dominated for 3.5 days and were the only team who could have won the match after the first day.  It was a very very very flat pitch (Which England were still rolled over on in the 1st innings), which got flatter, as evidenced by Ponting taking apart Finn and Swann in the final session.  Doherty (or whatever hes called) returned better figures then Swann.

In short, England got out of jail due to some very good batting and a pitch which wouldnt have looked out of place in Sri Lanka.  The teams were very evenly matched before the test and they were during it, I really don't understand all the triumphilism from England and despair from the aussie media.

0-0 all to play for.


----------



## strung out (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Some cold facts here, Australia dominated for 3.5 days and were the only team who could have won the match after the first day.


 
not true, i don't think


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

Ok 3 days.  Everyone knows that the aussies should have won that match from the position they were in.  Yes, what if Anderson had of got that lbw?  Its a what if, like if the aussies had held their catches in the second innings or Trott had not scored 30 runs off the edge to third man. Engalnd had wasted their reviews so its as bad as dropping a sitter, like Clarke, well maybe not that bad.

An escape does not make a triumphant victory.  All to play for.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 2, 2010)

strung out said:


> not true, i don't think


 
...and only one team on the final day...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

Not true at all – with just a small bit of luck going England's way, they could have been level after the first innings.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Engalnd had wasted their reviews so its as bad as dropping a sitter, like Clarke, well maybe not that bad.



Nope. Technology had let England down – the review gave the incorrect decision and England lost one. The review system is not working properly yet. I think on balance, I'd scrap it altogether until they sort it out properly.

dropping catches isn't bad luck, either. It's bad play.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

Fuck me.  My fellow England fans are dillusional.  Its like an army of Audley Harrisons.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> ...and only one team on the final day...


 
You reckon? I thought Ponting looked set for about another 3 days at the crease.


----------



## mattie (Dec 2, 2010)

I think we're all wondering how 220-5 is a position of dominance.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

You were following a different match from me. During the first hour and a half of the third day, England were right in it and neither team was on top. The Aussies survived a torrid period and later cashed in. Well done to them, and well done to England for saving the match from a horrible situation, but it was a much more ebbing and flowing and balanced game than you suggest.


----------



## mattie (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> You reckon? I thought Ponting looked set for about another 3 days at the crease.




Cook and Trott looked set for about another month.

England underperformed in the first innings but made up for it in the second, that's about all that can be said.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

mattie said:


> I think we're all wondering how 220-5 is a position of dominance.


 
Whilst I'm wondering how a lead of 221 after the 1st innings is not considered dominant.  Does it not count if the runs are scored by your keeper?  Or if you got a bit lucky with an umpire decision?


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You were following a different match from me. During the first hour and a half of the third day, England were right in it and neither team was on top. The Aussies survived a torrid period and later cashed in. Well done to them, and well done to England for saving the match from a horrible situation, but it was a much more ebbing and flowing and balanced game than you suggest.


 
Not at all, I'm suggesting it was a balanced game and am confused by all the reaction that would suggest England had won by a landslide.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Not at all, I'm suggesting it was a balanced game and am confused by all the reaction that would suggest England had won by a landslide.


 
Psychologically we did.


----------



## gabi (Dec 2, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Psychologically we did.


 
I think that says everything about the ambition of English sport


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Not at all, I'm suggesting it was a balanced game and am confused by all the reaction that would suggest England had won by a landslide.


 
You suggested that Aus dominated for the first 3 days. They didn't. They wrested control on day 3, after which the only likely results were aus win or draw. England then did hugely well to save the game in style. Aus discipline in the field disintegrated on day 5, which is why I would say that England have the psychological upper hand going into Adelaide.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 2, 2010)

gabi said:


> I think that says everything about the ambition of English sport


 
you mean the ambition of the current holders of The Ashes.


----------



## mattie (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Whilst I'm wondering how a lead of 221 after the 1st innings is not considered dominant.  Does it not count if the runs are scored by your keeper?  Or if you got a bit lucky with an umpire decision?


 
You seem to be cherry-picking your points of reference a touch.  Recovering from 220-5 suggests it wasn't exactly untrammeled dominance for 3 days.  As, indeed, it wasn't.

England batted the game completely out of sight, after the crims forged a first innings lead.  Who scored the bigger blow?  260 all up is weak but not disastrous, 517/1 is quite a marker to put down.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 2, 2010)

gabi said:


> I think that says everything about the ambition of English sport


 
When you've followed the English cricket team for 20 years, you take anything you can 

Honestly people, debating angels on the head of a pin. It was a draw. A draw where they played (slightly) better at the start, and we played better at the end. Because of that sequence, we ended on a high, and them on a low. That's it. 0-0. On to the next one.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

mattie said:


> You seem to be cherry-picking your points of reference a touch.  Recovering from 220-5 suggests it wasn't exactly untrammeled dominance for 3 days.  As, indeed, it wasn't.
> 
> England batted the game completely out of sight, after the crims forged a first innings lead.  Who scored the bigger blow?  260 all up is weak but not disastrous, 517/1 is quite a marker to put down.


 
Whereas you're relying on 'what-ifs'.  Who's to say on that pitch that the aussies wouldnt have got 500/1 in their second innings?

All this 'England are on-top', 'the aussies are in a mess', stuff is based upon intangibles.  I still think England are the slightly better team and certainly more settled, but the series is on a knife edge and the reaction to a draw (on both sides) is well over the top.


----------



## mattie (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Whereas you're relying on 'what-ifs'.  Who's to say on that pitch that the aussies wouldnt have got 500/1 in their second innings?
> 
> All this 'England are on-top', 'the aussies are in a mess', stuff is based upon intangibles.  I still think England are the slightly better team and certainly more settled, but the series is on a knife edge and the reaction to a draw (on both sides) is well over the top.



What?  I'm referring to what actually happened.

Kudos for stating I'm hypothesising and then following up immediately with a hypothetical question.  Nice work.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> the reaction to a draw (on both sides) is well over the top.


 given how psychological the game is, the reaction is half the point isn't it?


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

mattie said:


> Kudos for stating I'm hypothesising and then following up immediately with a hypothetical question.  Nice work.


 
Um, that was kinda the point.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 2, 2010)

Nice trolling, gabi.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 2, 2010)

Lo Siento. said:


> given how psychological the game is, the reaction is half the point isn't it?


 
Yes. Imagine the aussies if it were the other way round right now. Yet as usual if England cheer any sort of success its "wrong".

So bored with this shite. Always happens here on urban.


----------



## mattie (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Um, that was kinda the point.



I remain far from convinced that's true either.

Really, 3 days of dominance?  You have a strange perception of dominance.


----------



## gabi (Dec 2, 2010)

eh? i was merely making a point about the level of fappery from the english media. over a draw. against a team in decline...

do u think it was that glorious? i read yesterday in a respected broadsheet that Cook's innings was the greatest ever played in australia. bonkers.

e2a: this is at trippy btw


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 2, 2010)

gabi said:


> eh? i was merely making a point about the level of fappery from the english media. over a draw. against a team in decline...
> 
> do u think it was that glorious? i read yesterday in a respected broadsheet that Cook's innings was the greatest ever played in australia. bonkers.


 
Aussie media is just as bad, you always single out the english though, funny that isn't it?

Ofcourse the pitch played a part, but you've still got to be in the right frame of mind to pull it off, and given Englands batting history i'd say it was a good psychological victory, its atleast got the aussies questioning their bowling attack some more again.


edit: btw, haven't celebrated it was a victory exactly myself, just amazed we pulled off what we needed to do.


----------



## mattie (Dec 2, 2010)

gabi said:


> eh? i was merely making a point about the level of fappery from the english media. over a draw. against a team in decline...
> 
> do u think it was that glorious? i read yesterday in a respected broadsheet that Cook's innings was the greatest ever played in australia. bonkers.
> 
> e2a: this is at trippy btw



Before the first Test a lot of people were expecting Cook's flaws to be ruthlessly exposed, as is generally the case, instead he makes a record score for an Englishman in Oz (eta: not strictly true, the stand was a record. ) 

Worthy of significant comment, I would have thought.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

mattie said:


> I remain far from convinced that's true either.



Yes I'm a liar, you got me. I wasnt trying to illustrate the pointlessness of speculation.  Of course I was lying.



> Really, 3 days of dominance?  You have a strange perception of dominance.


 
Sorry to bring up an old cricketing cliche, but look in the book.  I spent years trying to justyfy why my team was in this postion or that position, but at the end of the day the only thing that really matters is whats in the book.  The Aussies were 221 runs ahead after the 1st innings, that is utterley dominant regardless of how they got the runs.

Although I do admire your optomism and support for England and I really hope you're right, but I don't take as much heart from a game which the aussies let slip because (bizarrely given they are aussies) they seem to have forgotten how to win a game of Cricket.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 2, 2010)

They didn't just forget though - they were _made_ to forget. And if they remembered they couldn't have done anything with it anyway.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

Presumably Atherton and Russell's heroics in Joburg to save the game were just a case of South African shortcomings too?

That's just silly – give credit to England.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

I dunno when England won a test match in S.Africa last winter nobody was decrying the death of s.african cricket.  Draw one match in Australia and suddenly the series is virtually in the bag.

When the England squad keep saying "we've achieved nothing yet" they're dead right, the fact they keep having to say it is quite amazing.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

Did you actually see any of the action?


----------



## mattie (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Yes I'm a liar, you got me. I wasnt trying to illustrate the pointlessness of speculation.  Of course I was lying.



I query where you're going more than anything.  You keep throwing in things about hypothetical situations, which I simply find confusing and (to be honest) a touch diversionary.



Teaboy said:


> Sorry to bring up an old cricketing cliche, but look in the book.  I spent years trying to justyfy why my team was in this postion or that position, but at the end of the day the only thing that really matters is whats in the book.  The Aussies were 221 runs ahead after the 1st innings, that is utterley dominant regardless of how they got the runs.
> 
> Although I do admire your optomism and support for England and I really hope you're right, but I don't take as much heart from a game which the aussies let slip because (bizarrely given they are aussies) they seem to have forgotten how to win a game of Cricket.



I've posted plain fact, no hypothesis or speculation.  Oz were 220-5 at the end of the third day's play (eta: apologies, 2nd).  Simple statement of fact.  That's 'in the book', as you put it.  

That's not dominant.  Far from it.

No idea where you think I lead the tub-thumping, but realise threads can assimilate many voices into one. 

For what it's worth, Oz are significantly pensive to change at least one and maybe two bowlers.  Of course, that's a reflection on their assessment of Johnson's woeful showing, but England should take heart from it - much like Oz did when Harmy struggled to land one on the cut strip.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Did you actually see any of the action?


 
Yes, quite a lot, I've got Sky and now, some weird sleeping patterns.

I just think the media / fan excitement has come from 2 things:

- This aussie team arnt as good as the other lot
- This England team has a backbone

The actual scorebook tells a different story, that it was a very equal game between two very well matched sides on a very dull pitch.


----------



## mattie (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Yes, quite a lot, I've got Sky and now, some weird sleeping patterns.
> 
> I just think the media / fan excitement has come from 2 things:
> 
> ...


 
Which I think most people would tend to agree with, but it's only one side who have dropped their main strike bowler.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

mattie said:


> Which I think most people would tend to agree with, but it's only one side who have dropped their main strike bowler.


 
He was awful though.


----------



## mattie (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> He was awful though.



Yep, woeful.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

Ok, so given England done so well in the first test, what is everbody's prediction for the second test?  An England win?  Anyone putting money on it?

Draw for me, especially as theres some rain around.  I think the aussies will win in Perth but England will take the last two tests and the series.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

With a full five days' play, I predict an England win.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Not at all, I'm suggesting it was a balanced game and am confused by all the reaction that would suggest England had won by a landslide.


we got a psychological victory, and if you can't win the  test in question, that can be a really good fall-back prize when set within the context of the first test, on a bogey ground for England, of a five-test ashes series.
To put another way; the pressure on the aussies will be greater than on england


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 2, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Ok, so given England done so well in the first test, what is everbody's prediction for the second test?


England if they win the toss and it doesn't piss it down


----------



## Idaho (Dec 2, 2010)

I really can't predict. It's close, yet both sides are capable of collapse/breakthrough. I'm looking forward to it!


----------



## embree (Dec 2, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Just to clear the South African thing up, Strauss and Prior are no more South African than Andrew Symonds is a Brummie.
> 
> Trott and Pietersen, however, are thoroughly South African.


 
Pietersen's half English


----------



## Santino (Dec 2, 2010)

Cricket!


----------



## gabi (Dec 2, 2010)

England should win this one but then they should've won the last one too. Bollinger's a good addition so could be a surprise.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

embree said:


> Pietersen's half English


 
He grew up in SA and more importantly, he learned his cricket in SA. To me, you should, if you can, play for the place whose system you came through.


----------



## gabi (Dec 2, 2010)

I agree. It must pain english fans to hear post match interviews from those two, likewise for rugby fans hearing Hartley and Hape. Makes a mockery of the international game, treating countries like clubs.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

gabi said:


> I agree. It must pain english fans to hear post match interviews from those two, likewise for rugby fans hearing Hartley and Hape. Makes a mockery of the international game, treating countries like clubs.


 
Ahem........

All Blacks.


----------



## embree (Dec 2, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He grew up in SA and more importantly, he learned his cricket in SA. To me, you should, if you can, play for the place whose system you came through.


 
Hardly makes him 'thoroughly' South African

I'm eligible to represent countries other than England and would happily do so. I really struggle to care about the whole Pietersen thing


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He grew up in SA and more importantly, he learned his cricket in SA. To me, you should, if you can, play for the place whose system you came through.


 
I actually have less of a problem with the likes of Pieterson and Trott who have left a country and set up home elsewhere, then the likes of Morgan and Nannes who seem to be able to switch between countries at the drop of a hat.

Actually where is Nannes?  Is he injured or just not good enough?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

Doesn't play 1st class cricket. He has a bad back.

Neither does Tait. 

It is a very great shame that Australia's two fastest bowlers are unavailable for tests.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Doesn't play 1st class cricket. He has a bad back.
> 
> Neither does Tait.
> 
> It is a very great shame that Australia's two fastest bowlers are unavailable for tests.


 
So they're finished?  

Tait always looked good value for plenty of runs, imagine facing a new ball attack of Tait and Johnson, you'd never know where the ball was going and neither would they.

edit, ah I think you mean they play one dayers and 20/20?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

Tait can get it up to 95 mph on a good day. He'd be a very welcome addition to this series in my book.

But yes, as far as I know, both of them are pretty much 2020 specialists now.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 2, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Tait can get it up to 95 mph on a good day. He'd be a very welcome addition to this series in my book.


 
As an England fan who's seen Tait bowl, I agree, very welcome.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 2, 2010)

I'm an England fan, but I want England to be playing the very best teams possible, even if that means they're more likely to lose.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 2, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It is a very great shame that Australia's two fastest bowlers are unavailable for tests.


yup, I'm all disconsolate over it!


----------



## Santino (Dec 2, 2010)

I was disconsolate when Glenn McGrath trod on that cricket ball lol


----------



## Idaho (Dec 2, 2010)

gabi said:


> England should win this one but then they should've won the last one too. Bollinger's a good addition so could be a surprise.


 
So they *should* win... he he he. So if they do win you predicted it and if they don't they are shit


----------



## paulhackett (Dec 2, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Oh come on gabi - only a team with Warne and Murali in their prime could have got a result in 5 days on that wicket. They were happy because they got out of what seemed like a grim situation, and ended the match on a high, while the Aussies had 2 grim days of frustration. Drawn Test matches are all about winning the mind game, especially at the start of a series. It's important that we feel like we won, and that they feel like they didn't.



It would have been interesting to see a Waqar or a Wasim on that pitch.. or dare I say it Simon Jones? On that basis, is it just loose talk that Shahzad might come in for Finn for this Test?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 2, 2010)

Aussies win toss and bat first.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 3, 2010)

fuck yeeeeeeeeeeeees what a run  out.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 3, 2010)

Ponting gone first ball!!!!!!!!!!! 0-2!!!!!!


----------



## Santino (Dec 3, 2010)

0-2 lol


----------



## strung out (Dec 3, 2010)

looooooool


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 3, 2010)

JIMMY!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 3, 2010)

Its just the start you always hope/imagine will happen, and it actually happened!


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 3, 2010)

great to see ponting back up all the crap he's been talking with a captain's innings!


----------



## Dan U (Dec 3, 2010)

If we lose, blame me, just texted a lol to the father in law in aus.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 3, 2010)

I'd shut the laptop down for the night but lordy!  

With any luck we'll be into England's innings before I fall asleep


----------



## strung out (Dec 3, 2010)

two more wickets and we're into their tail


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 3, 2010)

3 down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!omfggggggg


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 3, 2010)

What. The. Fuck?!?!


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 3, 2010)

*jiiiiiimmmyyyy!!!!*


----------



## killer b (Dec 3, 2010)

anyone recommend a stream?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 3, 2010)

Holy frig!!!!


----------



## strung out (Dec 3, 2010)

jesus fucking christ


----------



## Santino (Dec 3, 2010)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 3, 2010)

2-4-3  

"Strike me pink" 

So many !


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 3, 2010)

killer b said:


> anyone recommend a stream?



http://www.vip--sport.com/

is pretty good for me atm


----------



## Dan U (Dec 3, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> *jiiiiiimmmyyyy!!!!*



23!


----------



## OneStrike (Dec 3, 2010)

Haha, thought I would stick with QT and the after party and missed this !


----------



## marty21 (Dec 3, 2010)

What a fucking start!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 3, 2010)

have the ozzies been drinking already?


----------



## embree (Dec 3, 2010)

Worst start to an Australian innings in 60 years


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 3, 2010)

good


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 3, 2010)

Now husseys gonna save it. That cunt.


----------



## strung out (Dec 3, 2010)

give us some more wickets


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 3, 2010)

you starting to sound like a pirate mate...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 3, 2010)

yeeeeeeeeeeeessssss watson gone, get the fuck in!


----------



## strung out (Dec 3, 2010)

we're into the tail now


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 3, 2010)

Surprised there's someone besides me still up.


----------



## strung out (Dec 3, 2010)

in the words of test match sofa, marcus north is a walking wicket


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 3, 2010)

Still a worry over Haddin though, remember brisbane...ooh so close to 5 down.


----------



## strung out (Dec 3, 2010)

haddin proved he can get his head down, but he's no gilchrist. luckily.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 3, 2010)

Right whats going on here then?i can read much laughter and merriment.This wont do,but am i glad i am 1,000 kilometres away from it.Fucking carnage or what,runout and 2 swann/anderson efforts and we are 3 for 2.Fuck fuck fuck


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 3, 2010)

Even with all the tecnology it was still not absolutely certain that he was out


----------



## JimW (Dec 3, 2010)

See Beeb tells us Oz not scored less than 300 first innings in Adelaide since 1993. With Siddle just gone, they'll pretty definitely have to start counting again


----------



## a_chap (Dec 3, 2010)

245 ALL OUT  

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

etc.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 3, 2010)

Not a bad days work that.


----------



## JimW (Dec 3, 2010)

Disappointed we let them get over 150 after that start!


----------



## Santino (Dec 3, 2010)

Watson and Hussey to open the batting, Haddin at 3, then play 8 bowlers.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 3, 2010)

Start my day off in a good mood 

Well bowled and very well fielded from the sound of it. The more I watch cricket the more I think that the fielding is the bell weather of a side. A lot of pressure on the Aussie attack. England have the chance to really punish them now.


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 3, 2010)

Ponting and Haddin having a moan at the end apparently.

I was predicting 2-1 to the Aussies before the start but if we have a good day tomorrow, then I might have to revise.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 3, 2010)

I reckon Ponting would take Strauss in a fight - 

but good to see him riled (or hear him riled, I only heard it on tms)


----------



## Santino (Dec 3, 2010)

Does anyone know what Ponting was whinging about?


----------



## Badgers (Dec 3, 2010)

Santino said:


> Does anyone know what Ponting was whinging about?


 
Losing?


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 3, 2010)

Not that I've heard, the only contentious point that I can think of was the Harris dismissal


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 3, 2010)

holy fucking shit, we duffed the convicts! fucking excellent


----------



## Santino (Dec 3, 2010)

marty21 said:


> I reckon Ponting would take Strauss in a fight -
> 
> but good to see him riled (or hear him riled, I only heard it on tms)


 
Strauss would do that posh boxing pose that English characters do in American films.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 3, 2010)

Santino said:


> Strauss would do that posh boxing pose that English characters do in American films.


 
Ponting would laugh, and run into him like a bull


----------



## kabbes (Dec 3, 2010)

I'd forgotten the second test started last night.  Imagine my delight on opening this thread and reading it through as it happened!


----------



## mattie (Dec 3, 2010)

Ponting's about 4 foot tall.  Strauss could just put one hand on Punter's forehead and hold him off.

Forearms like a Blacksmith though.  Wonder how he got those?

Anyway, does anyone know of any web highlights of yesterday/today's play?


----------



## gabi (Dec 3, 2010)

I look forward to the aussies pulling out a triumphant draw out of this and the resultant over the top reaction from the australian media at such a mighty achievement.. oh.. wait..


----------



## mattie (Dec 3, 2010)

gabi said:


> I look forward to the aussies pulling out a triumphant draw out of this and the resultant over the top reaction from the australian media at such a mighty achievement.. oh.. wait..


 
If they break a number of long-standing records I'd expect them to be satisfied....oh.... wait.


----------



## mattie (Dec 3, 2010)

mattie said:


> Ponting's about 4 foot tall.  Strauss could just put one hand on Punter's forehead and hold him off.
> 
> Forearms like a Blacksmith though.  Wonder how he got those?
> 
> *Anyway, does anyone know of any web highlights of yesterday/today's play?*



Aha:

http://www.cricket-365.net/2010/12/australia-vs-england-highlights-2nd_02.html


----------



## Idaho (Dec 3, 2010)

gabi said:


> I look forward to the aussies pulling out a triumphant draw out of this and the resultant over the top reaction from the australian media at such a mighty achievement.. oh.. wait..


 
It's only the first innings. If we go on to score 450 over 2 days, then they pull off a draw, whilst losing only 1 wicket and smashing records, then they would be rightly pleased.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 3, 2010)

gabi said:


> I look forward to the aussies pulling out a triumphant draw out of this and the resultant over the top reaction from the australian media at such a mighty achievement.. oh.. wait..


 
Oh, trolling again eh? 

I watched it until after North got out. Will catch the highlights some point later.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 3, 2010)

I got pissed last night and forgot to watch it.  Anyway having seen the highlights it was a very strong performance by the England bowlers, ably assisted by a couple of very shoddy run-outs.

Will be interesting to see how England go on this pitch, there was some swing and the ball span occasionally for Swann.  Also quite a lot of variable bounce for a first day, I can see it getting very low as the match goes on, I'm not yet convinced this is a 450+ pitch.

Michael Clarke is clearly not fit and should just accept it for the good of the team, he's looking so stiff at the crease.  I thought Ponting was unlucky because he got a real good one first ball, god knows what him and Haddon were chuntering about at the end, he looks a very rattled man.  

Only downside for England was Finn's bowling, he seems to be struggling a bit and bowling to many four balls.  Unless he has a decent second innings I can see Shazad or Tremlett coming in for him.


----------



## Santino (Dec 3, 2010)

I'm already looking forward to the final match of the 2013 Ashes at the Kia Oval.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 3, 2010)

One point that needs reiterating is that this is 100% a batsman's wicket, Iread on the Grauniad site that the last time they failed to get 350 was light years ago, or summat (guardian site down right now, will post actual stat later).
e2a: Apparently, the Aussies have made 400 in each adelaide test since 1999.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 3, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> One point that needs reiterating is that this is 100% a batsman's wicket, Iread on the Grauniad site that the last time they failed to get 350 was light years ago, or summat (guardian site down right now, will post actual stat later).
> e2a: Apparently, the Aussies have made 400 in each adelaide test since 1999.


 
But its also worth remembering Geoff Boycott's sage words that you only know what sort of pitch it is when both teams have had a bat.  

There was certainly a bit there for the bowlers but more interesting was the occasional low bounce.


----------



## El Sueno (Dec 3, 2010)

Heard the beginning last night (first three wickets) and the end this morning (last three wickets). When I woke up I had to remind myself I hadn't dreamt up the opening - unbelievable! Can't wait until tonight to hear how we get on with the bat, I've had a big grin on my face all day


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 3, 2010)

Apparently Ponting was all worked up due to James Anderson being nasty to Brad Haddin.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 3, 2010)

El Sueno said:


> Heard the beginning last night (first three wickets) and the end this morning (last three wickets). When I woke up I had to remind myself I hadn't dreamt up the opening - unbelievable! Can't wait until tonight to hear how we get on with the bat, *I've had a big grin on my face all day*


 
me too.


----------



## gabi (Dec 3, 2010)

Decent total from the ockers considering that start.. 

Bet they're regretting dropping johnson though if for nothing else his batting


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 3, 2010)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Apparently Ponting was all worked up due to James Anderson being nasty to Brad Haddin.



Aussies getting upset at being sledged?  Fuck me what has this world come to?


----------



## mattie (Dec 3, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Aussies getting upset at being sledged?  Fuck me what has this world come to?



Some fucking brass neck from Ponting.


----------



## Santino (Dec 3, 2010)

I understand Matthew Hayden's doorstop of an autobiography is similarly two-faced about verbal abuse on the field of play.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 3, 2010)

gabi said:


> Bet they're regretting dropping johnson though if for nothing else his batting


 
Well, given he's only averaged 13 with the bat since the two series against s.africa in 08/09 they probably felt someone who could bowl straight was more useful.


----------



## embree (Dec 3, 2010)

gabi said:


> Decent total from the ockers considering that start..
> 
> Bet they're regretting dropping johnson though if for nothing else his batting


 
yeah he looked really fucking dangerous in that painful 15 or so ball duck in Brisbane


----------



## embree (Dec 3, 2010)

Santino said:


> I understand Matthew Hayden's doorstop of an autobiography is similarly two-faced about verbal abuse on the field of play.


 
that's because Hayden's a cunt


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 3, 2010)

embree said:


> that's because Hayden's a cunt


 and of course all the books written by english cricketers over the years have been totally unbiased,lol.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 3, 2010)

Ricky Pointing is whining that Jimmy Anderson, _Jimmy fucking Anderson_, is playing his cricket too tough for him?

Its a bit like that opening spell from Harmison at Lords in 05, a moment when you suddenly really realise that this series is actually on for England, yeah everyone can have a shit day with the bat now and then, but Punters reaction is a sign of a team battling inner deamons. Jesus is Adelaide ever a baking hot hard unforgiving pitch when there are more cracks in your moral than the pitch.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 3, 2010)

the grim reality is all cyber friendships must cease during the ashes so its"GOOD MORNING BASTARDS"HOPE YOUR ALL FELLING SHITEIts gunna be 36cel at the ground today but it will be hotter at the crease when Douggy starts putting them thru your boys.Looking for a few early wickets and to wrap up the innings at tea


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 3, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> the grim reality is all cyber friendships must cease during the ashes so its"GOOD MORNING BASTARDS"HOPE YOUR ALL FELLING SHITEIts gunna be 36cel at the ground today but it will be hotter at the crease when Douggy starts putting them thru your boys.Looking for a few early wickets and to wrap up the innings at tea


 
I've had a big grin on my face all day, thanks.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 3, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> the grim reality is all cyber friendships must cease during the ashes so its"GOOD MORNING BASTARDS"HOPE YOUR ALL FELLING SHITEIts gunna be 36cel at the ground today but it will be hotter at the crease when Douggy starts putting them thru your boys.Looking for a few early wickets and to wrap up the innings at tea



you, sir are a cunt. an antipodean cunt. HA HA HA!!


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 3, 2010)

It's interesting how different a game feels if you're bowling or batting. Last night was very exciting as we took the first three wickets, but if all goes well tonight it's going to be a more slow burn of the score racking up. Can't stay up too late tonight so will have to catch bits in my sleep and find out tomorrow morning how we did.


----------



## redsquirrel (Dec 3, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Michael Clarke is clearly not fit and should just accept it for the good of the team, he's looking so stiff at the crease.  I thought Ponting was unlucky because he got a real good one first ball, god knows what him and Haddon were chuntering about at the end, he looks a very rattled man.


Personally I think it's as much a mental problem as anything to do with his back.

And the Anderson sledging thing is just a joke, I mean pot calling the kettle black Ricky. Dickhead


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 3, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> you, sir are a cunt. an antipodean cunt. HA HA HA!!


 your wrong,cunts are usefull,i,on the other hand have made a lifetime promise to make sure i am not.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 3, 2010)

redsquirrel said:


> Personally I think it's as much a mental problem as anything to do with his back.
> 
> And the Anderson sledging thing is just a joke, I mean pot calling the kettle black Ricky. Dickhead


Gamesmanship surely,sledging is an intergral part of the game innit.Aussies were world champs at it and we were all proud of it


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 3, 2010)

Have bitten the bullet and put 50 bucks on Aust at $5.60 to win.Eng are $1.89 and a draw is $3.40


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

that was just pathetic strauss.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 4, 2010)

_Again??!_ "facepalm"


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 4, 2010)




----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 4, 2010)

Yeeeeeesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

Hate watching us bat.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 4, 2010)

i am out in the desert about 50 miles from the Queensland/South Aust border.The TV shack is about 500 metres from the computer,gotta dash between the two to give you kuntz stick every wicket we taks.Should be fit by the end of your innings


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 4, 2010)

Much better bowling from Aus.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

The wicket though should've not happened, just a basic error by Strauss.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 4, 2010)

Good ball, though. It moved back in. If he'd played it and missed, he may have survived an lb decision on height. Credit the bowler, though.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 4, 2010)

Oops.


----------



## JimW (Dec 4, 2010)

Couple of lovely boundaries from Trott. And Strauss still more of a captain's innings than Punter


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

Scorings dried up abit, but were in a strong position atleast. Reckon i'll stay up all night for this one this time.


----------



## JimW (Dec 4, 2010)

True, but then no scares or shouts even either. Happy if it plods along like this all day.


----------



## strung out (Dec 4, 2010)

this is going great


----------



## JimW (Dec 4, 2010)

Fifty up for Master Trott. Good lad.


----------



## mattie (Dec 4, 2010)

Decent run-rate this, picked it up a bit since lunch.

Any stream recommendations?  I either get low-res or jumpy.


----------



## strung out (Dec 4, 2010)

http://crictime.com/live-cricket-streaming.htm is decent enough for me


----------



## strung out (Dec 4, 2010)

if anyone hadn't noticed, the partnership between trott and cook is an unbeaten 451 now


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> i am out in the desert about 50 miles from the Queensland/South Aust border.The TV shack is about 500 metres from the computer,gotta dash between the two to give you kuntz stick every wicket we taks.Should be fit by the end of your innings


 
d'ooooooohhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

strung out said:


> if anyone hadn't noticed, the partnership between trott and cook is an unbeaten 451 now


 
i have noticed it was something like that


----------



## mattie (Dec 4, 2010)

A touch, erm, 'bodyline' this, ain't it?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

haha, c'mon review

edit:clearly not out


----------



## JimW (Dec 4, 2010)

Whew


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 4, 2010)

The Aussie unit did a lot of fruitless bowling at Brisbane and is now doing a lot more fruitless bowling in the heat on a flat wicket here. 

Soul destroying stuff.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

fuck this is hilarious.


----------



## mattie (Dec 4, 2010)

butterfingers


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 4, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> i am out in the desert about 50 miles from the Queensland/South Aust border.The TV shack is about 500 metres from the computer,gotta dash between the two to give you kuntz stick every wicket we taks.Should be fit by the end of your innings


 
Can,t you use an internet radio station, i am listen to tms from the beeb while still surfing etc


----------



## JimW (Dec 4, 2010)

Trott finally manages to give his wicket away.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 4, 2010)

Ok, Pietersen death or glory.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

ferrelhadley said:


> Ok, Pietersen death or glory.


 
sums him up


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

right off to bed now for me i think, always seem to get too tired around now.


----------



## JimW (Dec 4, 2010)

Nice way to get the century. Great work from Cook.


----------



## JimW (Dec 4, 2010)

And there's the lead with eight wickets in hand.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 4, 2010)

Sedate carnage at the minute.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 4, 2010)

New ball up soon. Tired bowlers, well set batsmen, flat wicket.......


----------



## tarannau (Dec 4, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> i am out in the desert about 50 miles from the Queensland/South Aust border.The TV shack is about 500 metres from the computer,gotta dash between the two to give you kuntz stick every wicket we taks.Should be fit by the end of your innings


 
You might want to get an extra comfortable cushion and take the odd walk to stop your legs atrophying.


----------



## fen_boy (Dec 4, 2010)

tarannau said:


> You might want to get an extra comfortable cushion and take the odd walk to stop your legs atrophying.


 
I hear bed sores can be a terrible problem for the immobile.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 4, 2010)

"Please can I have Shane and Glenn back?"


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## Balbi (Dec 4, 2010)

You put your left leg in, you get no-one else out, in out, in out and.....etc


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 4, 2010)

Great improvement in the aussie bowling with those two changes - almost 50% better in fact:
517-1
317-2


----------



## kabbes (Dec 4, 2010)

Can we play you every week?

Caaaaaaan we play you every weeeeeeek?


----------



## Dan U (Dec 4, 2010)

But they knocked us out the darts, which makes up for it, according to my father in law.

Great days play. Hope we get over 500 and win by an innings


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

Dan U said:


> But they knocked us out the darts, which makes up for it, according to my father in law.
> 
> Great days play. Hope we get over 500 and win by an innings


 
Aussies didn't knock us out? They knocked ireland out!(only just, mind)


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## Santino (Dec 4, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> the grim reality is all cyber friendships must cease during the ashes so its"GOOD MORNING BASTARDS"HOPE YOUR ALL FELLING SHITEIts gunna be 36cel at the ground today but it will be hotter at the crease when Douggy starts putting them thru your boys.Looking for a few early wickets and to wrap up the innings at tea


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## Santino (Dec 4, 2010)

Cook has gone the longest period without being dismissed of any England Test batsman.


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## Idaho (Dec 4, 2010)

Let's get 600 on the board and declare just as the bounce starts to get variable and balls go through the top


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 4, 2010)

_Unbelievably_, there's dodgy weather on the way. Get to about 450 without mishap, and then they're going to need to look to push on. 

Then again, with Doherty bowling, who needs to push on?


----------



## Idaho (Dec 4, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Great improvement in the aussie bowling with those two changes - almost 50% better in fact:
> 517-1
> 317-2


Swapping Johnson was sensible. Swapping Hilfenhaus was foolish.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 4, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Swapping Johnson was sensible. Swapping Hilfenhaus was foolish.


 
Worried about the tail, apparently, which meant that if Johnson had to go, so did Hilfenhaus.

Keeping Doherty was the mistake, I think. They clearly don't have any quality spinners, so just go for four seamers and a bit of part-time twirling from North. I suspect that is what they will do in Perth, assuming North isn't dropped.


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## embree (Dec 4, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Can we play you every week?
> 
> Caaaaaaan we play you every weeeeeeek?


 
the good news is, we are until January


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

embree said:


> the good news is, we are until January


 
don't forget the one day games!


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## Dan U (Dec 4, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Aussies didn't knock us out? They knocked ireland out!(only just, mind)



I didn't even check what he said tbh, that'll teach me.


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## Santino (Dec 4, 2010)

Can't decide whether to see how this all turns out on telly or get the DVDs for Christmas and watch it all in one go.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 4, 2010)

Santino said:


> Can't decide whether to see how this all turns out on telly or get the DVDs for Christmas and watch it all in one go.


 
Do both.


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## strung out (Dec 4, 2010)

get ready guys!


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

pissing rain for the last two days apparently


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## Dan U (Dec 5, 2010)

Am gonna be a saddo and check BBC over by over at a house party.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

And we're off again. Triple hundred this time, Alastair. Make it a Daddie!


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Terrible review.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

lovely century for kp


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

A wicket?

I'm confused.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

what just happened?


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## twentythreedom (Dec 5, 2010)

cook gone for 148, inside edge, excellent take by haddin


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

i'm sure it was a mistake


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Odd watching the two of them now. Collingwood is (quite legitimately) leaving a whole load of balls that Pietersen would be trying to smack for four.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

not sure what the plan is now. obviously try and get as high a lead as possible, but with bad weather predicted, we'll be needing to leave some time to win the match. coming out of these two tests still at 0-0 would be a bit of a blow i should think.


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## twentythreedom (Dec 5, 2010)

we need to crack on (like kev is) and declare with about 550 up, then jimmy and swanny can knock 'em over quick-style


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Not if it's because of the weather. They're pushing on well this morning, and there's no way Pietersen's hanging around. I'd still like a lead of 300 if possible, then all-out attack with the ball –  a ring of slips, and don't worry about giving away a few boundaries.


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## twentythreedom (Dec 5, 2010)

spot on, lbj


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

so maybe declare at 300 ahead and give us a few overs at them this evening i'm guessing?


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

I fear Strauss doesn't quite think like that, but I'd like four slips and a gully or three slips and two gullies. That kind of attack seems to have gone out of fashion in recent years. It was common in the 80s.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

strung out said:


> so maybe declare at 300 ahead and give us a few overs at them this evening i'm guessing?


 
Depends. Pietersen could go quite silly here and they'll be declaring at tea! But yes, 10 overs with the new ball tonight, then fresh bowlers tomorrow with a nearly new ball tomorrow morning.

tbh unless it rains, I can't see Aus saving this.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

over 100 runs in this session already. australia's bowling really is utter utter shite


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Yep. Doherty is shockingly bad. He'd better enjoy today. This will be his last test match.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

tbh, at this rate of scoring, assuming we don't give away our wickets, we could even be 400 ahead by halfway through the final session


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

this ball is spinning so so much. swanny must be rubbing his hands


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## agricola (Dec 5, 2010)

I officially feel sorry for Doherty now, this is beyond embarrasing.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Oh dear for Doherty. Replaced by the part-timer. He has no place in this team.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

yep. not his fault they picked him


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

He does have a first-class average of over 40. There was a clue there.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

incredibly, recently his first class average has been about 30ish i think. in his first couple of years playing first class cricket, his average must have been about 70ish


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## agricola (Dec 5, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He does have a first-class average of over 40. There was a clue there.


 
Still their fault for picking him though.

edit: also his current first class average is 48-odd:

http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2010-11/content/player/5017.html


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

They've gone through a few since McGill retired, tbh, and they've all been crap.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

hauritz is their best spinner. ponting seems to have something against him though.


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## paulhackett (Dec 5, 2010)

Good session for Australia. Lots of positives. They took a wicket and confirmed which bowlers are definitely shit.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Hauritz isn't that good, that's why. He's ok, but I'd much rather have Monty, for instance. Aus should forget spin, I think. If you don't have a decent spinner, don't play one. It never worried the West Indies.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

paulhackett66 said:


> Good session for Australia. Lots of positives. They took a wicket and confirmed which bowlers are definitely shit.


 
Their seamers aren't awful. I like Harris, in fact. He's like Craig White – much quicker than he looks. I thought Siddle was ordinary last year and I still do. Bollinger's a trier. 

They don't have anyone else. Shaun Tait doesn't play test cricket... Will they bring Johnson back for Perth? Is Perth as quick as it used to be, in which case, you've got to try to get Johnson there? In which case, it could be Steve Finn's time to shine too.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Hauritz isn't that good, that's why. He's ok, but I'd much rather have Monty, for instance. Aus should forget spin, I think. If you don't have a decent spinner, don't play one. It never worried the West Indies.


 
yeah, for sure. but realistically, no team is going to do that anymore, particularly not when your seam attack is as toothless as australia's right now. hauritz is steady enough, bit like ashley giles was for us a few years back. certainly better than the dog shit doherty's been serving up.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

I do feel sorry for Doherty. He's out of his depth.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 5, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Oh dear for Doherty. Replaced by the part-timer. He has no place in this team.




What about the cunning plan that he can exploit Pietersen's weaknesses? That seems to be working well...


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## twentythreedom (Dec 5, 2010)

at the risk of cursing the whole thing, i'd say that weather permitting this one's in the bag. but having said that, it is england, so you never know.


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## paulhackett (Dec 5, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Their seamers aren't awful. I like Harris, in fact. He's like Craig White – much quicker than he looks. I thought Siddle was ordinary last year and I still do. Bollinger's a trier.
> 
> They don't have anyone else. Shaun Tait doesn't play test cricket... Will they bring Johnson back for Perth? Is Perth as quick as it used to be, in which case, you've got to try to get Johnson there? In which case, it could be Steve Finn's time to shine too.



Not sure how Perth is playing. They were suggesting it was as fast as it used to be at the start of the tour - but it wasn't that way in the game against WA? So Johnson may not have been picked for that pitch anyway. 

But isn't he as mentally unfit as Tait? Even if Tait was physically fit.. even then his record was a bit hit and miss (like Shoaib). Shit may be too strong but at Test level their bowlers are - ordinary? Skilled, triers, but not outstanding. Their selection of 17 for Brisbane shows where they are mentally and it's showing.

It's reminding me of the summer of 85..


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

It is England, but with Anderson finally believing in himself, and Swann... We need to switch the teams psychologically. It's Aus doubting themselves, and England knowing they're good enough. I really liked the way that Anderson reacted to his wicketless spell last match – it was just like the best bowlers: you know you bowled brilliantly, just keep doing the same thing and the wickets will come.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

I hope Perth is a quick one. I really fancy Finn on a bouncy track. Swann will like the bounce too.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Does it still turn square at Sydney? England have one brilliant spinner and another very capable one. Australia have, um, Marcus North...


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## a_chap (Dec 5, 2010)

Marvellous. I can't sleep so I thought I'll listen to TMS and immedialtely England lose a wicket 

I think I'll go back to bed.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

collapse


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Watson's their most likely again!


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Bell looks very good straight away. Collingwood always suffers in comparison style-wise.


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## a_chap (Dec 5, 2010)

500 up


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## JimW (Dec 5, 2010)

So when to declare? You could conceivably do it now but given the decent amount of time in hand maybe crack on to a lead of 350+ if it leaves you ten overs or so to have a go at the openers tonight?


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## JimW (Dec 5, 2010)

Bollocks, says it's just started pissing down and covers are on.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 5, 2010)

Damn, just woke up and was looking forward to watching the last session! This is just bizarre though, wtf is going on with austrailia.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 5, 2010)

JimW said:


> So when to declare? You could conceivably do it now but given the decent amount of time in hand maybe crack on to a lead of 350+ if it leaves you ten overs or so to have a go at the openers tonight?


 
Declare first thing tmrw, if there is as much rain as were being told.


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## DrRingDing (Dec 5, 2010)

600 on the board would deflate the Ozzies. Better still a lead of 400.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 5, 2010)

Not sure we'll have the time to bowl them out then, though.


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## JimW (Dec 5, 2010)

And the rain and damp is only going to help our bowlers move the ball about. Also think sooner rather than later is a better plan.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 5, 2010)

And i'd imagine they're pretty much deflated right now anyways given their last two bowling performances.


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## Idaho (Dec 5, 2010)

England's batting order in form shocker! I can't remember a time when we had so many of them firing.


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## Santino (Dec 5, 2010)

So Troy Cooley was working for us all along.


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## mattie (Dec 5, 2010)

The Barmy Army should make up a song about this:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/punter-is-andersons-bunny-20101204-18knn.html


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Only the weather can save Aus now, surely. What the hell has happened to the drought?


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 5, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Only the weather can save Aus now, surely. What the hell has happened to the drought?


 
No worries, aussies will still be under pressure to win tests(if they want the ashes) where as we are not under the same type of pressure. If the rain fucks us over there's nothing we can do about that.


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## JimW (Dec 5, 2010)




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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 5, 2010)

I can't believe i'm saying 'no worries' and its during the ashes, that's not very english of me.


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## liquidlunch (Dec 5, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I can't believe i'm saying 'no worries' and its during the ashes, that's not very english of me.


 You will be an aussie in seconds if you keep that up,we only take the good uns these days.
Starting to believe there is a GOD after all these years of atheisim.Rain forecast for mon and tues as well,YEEESSSSSSSS.


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## kabbes (Dec 5, 2010)

Relying on bad weather, hey?  How glorious for you.  You must be so proud.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

It looks a little like Lords, but does Adelaide have the same miraculous draining properties? Looks like England might need to try to win it tonight judging by the forecast. Definitely ought to declare now.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 5, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> You will be an aussie in seconds if you keep that up,we only take the good uns these days.
> Starting to believe there is a GOD after all these years of atheisim.Rain forecast for mon and tues as well,YEEESSSSSSSS.


 
Too bad you've already turned english yourself, i still have time to save myself!!


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## ferrelhadley (Dec 5, 2010)

Pietersons double ton has not been mentioned so far and I really think that that deserves a mention. He is that rarest of player, like Shane Warne and a few others, someone who makes non cricket fans enjoy test cricket. KP and Cook have marmalized the Aussies. 

Test cricket is a game played largely in the heads of the opposition and England fans know all about what its like for the other side to have the psychological edge. But this England team are inflicting "mental scars" on the Australians. And of course Adelaide has always been the perfect pitch to mentally murder a bowling attack. As soon as I seen punters reaction to Jimmys sledging I thought that the Aussies were in no fit state to play an Adelaide test match and Cook, KP and co have proven this right. 

My gut instinct is that this wil be a draw, too much rain on the way. But then again really heavy over head conditions and Englands swingers could yet skittle an Australian rear guard in 4 or 5 session, about all this match seems to have left. 

Perth is not the cathederal of pace it once was but I believe it still is quick enough. Normally bowlers love a fast pacey wicket, but for a really inform batsman ala Cook right now, that can also translate into really rapid run scoring and a the bat comes of the bat so quickely a well exectued defensive push can go to the boundry. 

When was the last time the English were actually enjoying an overseas ashes?


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Shame Perth isn't as pacy as it was. It used to produce very exciting cricket.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

adelaide right now...






hope it stays like that!


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 5, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Shame Perth isn't as pacy as it was. It used to produce very exciting cricket.


My Saffie mates tell me the Aussies used to refuse to schedule a test with them at the WACA until Donald was past it....


----------



## Santino (Dec 5, 2010)

I hope England don't have another shocker like yesterday. Two wickets lost!


----------



## Lock&Light (Dec 5, 2010)

Does the day's play start any earlier because of the time lost?


----------



## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

half hour earlier


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## ferrelhadley (Dec 5, 2010)

The last two innnings now stand at *5-1068.*

Fuck me.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 5, 2010)

I know.

Those 5 better be _fucking_ ashamed of themselves


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 5, 2010)

ferrelhadley said:


> The last two innnings now stand at *5-1068.*
> 
> Fuck me.


 
1068-5.

ye aussie bastard!


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

strauss was out twice. drop him


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 5, 2010)

strung out said:


> strauss was out twice. drop him


 
And is still yet to make a double hundred, what a useless twat.


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## Idaho (Dec 5, 2010)

A couple of overs this morning so the batsmen can run up and down the wicket in long spikes then declare?


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

i'd probably declare immediately


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 5, 2010)

I would to.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 5, 2010)

I would declare that I wasn't sure what I was going to do.

If the forecast looks a bit mixed, I think I would have a few overs.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 5, 2010)

Ask to play it both ways and see how it goes.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 5, 2010)

They wont bowl us out and have enough time to get a decent lead with the rain on the way. Might aswell go for it.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 5, 2010)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 5, 2010)

Aye, is there no way of playing advantage or something?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 5, 2010)

This is quite addictive


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 5, 2010)

I think they will bat out this innings and want at least four sessions to bowl out the aussies


----------



## Santino (Dec 5, 2010)

Perhaps they should just bat out the rest of the series and retain the Ashes 0-0.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

shagnasty said:


> I think they will bat out this innings and want at least four sessions to bowl out the aussies


 
but with very bad weather forecast for tomorrow, we may not even get 4 sessions in the rest of the match, let alone once we've been bowled out.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 5, 2010)

Bowl now, fuck everything else. Trust the batsmen not to lose in a second innings and just have a fucking bowl at them.

E2A morning moisture, get Jimmey and the other swingers on now.


----------



## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

innit. we're not going to lose, so bowl at them with a 300 lead. i'd rather be put back in to knock off a few runs, than bat on and have an extra 100 runs we might not even need, but run the risk of running out of time.


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

apparently we're batting on. good luck boys. knock off a hundred runs asap and then declare


----------



## marty21 (Dec 5, 2010)

Strauss will at least give Pietersen a chance to beat his highest test score which is 226 (thanks TMS)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 5, 2010)

Pah. Strauss the conservative again. Should be bowling.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 5, 2010)

A Steve Waugh might have sent his batters out to take the piss and go mad for about 5 overs, just to unsettle the other sides game plan.

Though with Strauss he may just want 700 on the board to be sure hes safe from losing.


----------



## Santino (Dec 5, 2010)

Australia's plan worked!


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 5, 2010)

6 for Bell


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## strung out (Dec 5, 2010)

let's hope that wicket secures doherty's place for the next test!


----------



## marty21 (Dec 5, 2010)

marty21 said:


> Strauss will at least give Pietersen a chance to beat his highest test score which is 226 (thanks TMS)


 
he got 227, well done Pietersen, highest test score (227), now we can declare surely!


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 5, 2010)

classic, screwing up a piss-easy catch off bell!


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 6, 2010)

600 up


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

someone tell me why we are still batting?


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

strauss must have a cunning plan


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 6, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> someone tell me why we are still batting?


Cause Strauss has a Phd in meteorology and has worked out the weather for the next few days....


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

throwing the game away, what a cunning plan indeed!


----------



## strung out (Dec 6, 2010)

they've obviously got 400 lead in mind, so get there asap and declare


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

don't need it though, the aussies are fucking hopeless.


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 6, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> strauss must have a cunning plan


 
He can bat a lot better than baldrick.The batmens were looking toward the dressing room when it reached 600


----------



## strung out (Dec 6, 2010)

i guess they're just thinking if they get a 400 lead within the hour, it'll break the aussies will a little more. not sure if i agree with it, but i can see their thinking.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

maybe, just seems a stupid option with rain on the way.


----------



## strung out (Dec 6, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> don't need it though, the aussies are fucking hopeless.


 
and don't fall into that trap. in this series, australia have scored 450 and 100/1, with one batting failure. that's not much worse than how we've done tbf.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

we've declared!


----------



## strung out (Dec 6, 2010)

declaration


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

we absolutely must get this one right and do the utmost to get a victory - if it's 0-0 after this test, then all the brilliance, psychology, records, etc etc will essentially count for fuckall.

ok, strauss has called 'em in. let's fuckin' have it!! jimmy and swanny please step forward...


----------



## JimW (Dec 6, 2010)

And there we have it; not sure what he was thinking of number-wise. Maybe thought a bit of a tonk would add to Oz gloom.


----------



## Lock&Light (Dec 6, 2010)

Have they declared in time.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

lets fucking party!


----------



## Kaye (Dec 6, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> someone tell me why we are still batting?


 
Stupidity. The only thing Australia need to use up is time, and we're doing some of it for them.


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

Will Katich open the batting?


----------



## strung out (Dec 6, 2010)

Kaye said:


> Stupidity. The only thing Australia need to use up is time, and we're doing some of it for them.


 
i think i'll go with the judgement of our ashes winning captain


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

maybe his plan was to fuck the aussies's mindset up abit, hmmm.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 6, 2010)

I remember a few years ago when we needed a wicket to win and the other side batted out and we'd stupidly declared too late. We were about 200 ahead and at the end they were 9 wickets down. Who was that?


----------



## Kaye (Dec 6, 2010)

strung out said:


> i think i'll go with the judgement of our ashes winning captain


 
What's your opinion? Just that he is right, no matter what?


----------



## Kaye (Dec 6, 2010)

On a positive note, the Aussie order is fucked up completely. Both their openers have bowled about 20 overs etc etc


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Ok, 370 ahead. Forget about stopping runs. Attack, attack, attack.


----------



## strung out (Dec 6, 2010)

Kaye said:


> What's your opinion? Just that he is right, no matter what?


 
i thought we should have declared earlier personally, but i doubt strauss's decision to bat on was made through stupidity. i'll go with his decision, because let's face it, he's won the ashes and i haven't.


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 6, 2010)

The outfield will be quite slow so run making will be hard work


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 6, 2010)

Loads of hard work for the English up today. They can do it but its going to be loads of running. But on the other hand the batters made very good use of the couple of extra overs to humiliate the Australian team.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

i reckon we can get them out for 310 or so. I'm being generous to the aussies so i don't jinx anything btw.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 6, 2010)

strung out said:


> i thought we should have declared earlier personally, but i doubt strauss's decision to bat on was made through stupidity. i'll go with his decision, because let's face it, he's won the ashes and i haven't.


 
Yeah, I'm not sure stupidity was accurate. I just mildly disagree. I'm sure originally they would've declared about half an hour before stumps yesterday if the rain had held off.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

need to set super-aggressive fields, fuck stopping boundaries, let's take wickets


----------



## strung out (Dec 6, 2010)

Kaye said:


> Yeah, I'm not sure stupidity was accurate. I just mildly disagree. I'm sure originally they would've declared about half an hour before stumps yesterday if the rain had held off.


 
definitely. if we run out of time with one wicket left to get, then don't worry, i'll be back raging at strauss for not declaring sooner 

we should still have time anyway. allowing for rain i still think we'll have well over a day to bowl them out.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

wooooahh, jimmy jimmy....


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

They're on about Katich being injured, who would replace him?


----------



## JimW (Dec 6, 2010)

No, he's out there, carrying the injury.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

I know that. But if it gets too much and he can't bat, i mean.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 6, 2010)

strung out said:


> definitely. if we run out of time with one wicket left to get, then don't worry, i'll be back raging at strauss for not declaring sooner
> 
> we should still have time anyway. allowing for rain i still think we'll have well over a day to bowl them out.


 
But the point is that the wicket looks alright. You should expect a day and a half (and that being the case, we'll probably be chasing a few, but we would know how many/ how much time)


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

Philip Hughes lol


----------



## JimW (Dec 6, 2010)

Ah, right. Should have thought.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 6, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I know that. But if it gets too much and he can't bat, i mean.


then he doesn't bat and we only have to get 9 out. He will bat though, and have a runner.


----------



## strung out (Dec 6, 2010)

Kaye said:


> But the point is that the wicket looks alright. You should expect a day and a half (and that being the case, we'll probably be chasing a few, but we would know how many/ how much time)


 
tbf, i don't think i've ever agreed with an england captain on when to declare and i'm inclined to agree with you. we'll see anyway. hopefully 50 mins we've lost by batting on won't come back to bite us.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> Philip Hughes lol


 
lol


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

I like the two gullies, but I'd have four slips, I think. Fill the ring.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

Kaye said:


> then he doesn't bat and we only have to get 9 out. He will bat though, and have a runner.


 
ugh, i have to be really specific with you guys here don't i? FOR THE NEXT MATCH I MEANT!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Aus have some decent batters in reserve. It's the bowlers they seem to have run out of.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 6, 2010)

He's in anyway, with no runner, but have the Aussies lost it - they're playing at everything (OK, they've picked up over a dozen runs quickly, but this is madness!)


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

hopefully someone will call watson a cunt at some point


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Aus have some decent batters in reserve. It's the bowlers they seem to have run out of.


 
we'll bowl their reserves out with ease.


----------



## strung out (Dec 6, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> hopefully someone will call watson a cunt at some point


 
his nickname on test match sofa is twatto


----------



## gabi (Dec 6, 2010)

Are the barmy army actually singing 'you all live in the fucking colonies'? To the tune of yellow submarine?

Lol. Takes a lot for a kiwi to support the ockers. Facepalm ahoy


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

at bloody last!


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

gabi please make your 8000th post funny


----------



## a_chap (Dec 6, 2010)

Ponting stiiiiill on a pair


----------



## a_chap (Dec 6, 2010)

......aaand Ponting's OUT


----------



## a_chap (Dec 6, 2010)

Tee hee. And now Watson's gone. 130-3


----------



## a_chap (Dec 6, 2010)

And on the last ball of the day Clarke's OUT 

Aus trail by 137 runs still.


----------



## marty21 (Dec 6, 2010)

not content with his highest test score effort, Pietersen takes a crucial wicket with last ball


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 6, 2010)

What a shitty time to lose a wicket sometimes cricket can be very cruel.There's only one winner if the weather holds out


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

shagnasty said:


> There's only one winner if the weather holds out


 
Is it England? *hopeful face*


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

I think Strauss' decision to bat on a little this morning is vindicated. The wicket is still reasonable and Australia can still score. Better to do the batting now rather than on the last (rain affected) afternoon.

Aus can still save the game depending on how much help they get from the weather. I don't think this one is in the bag.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

ITV4 had a really nice interview by the former wicket keeper Healy of Ponting. He brought out Ponting's better side.


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

This is like some kind of proper Test match and not the hilarious, one-sided farce I had been promised.


----------



## kyser_soze (Dec 6, 2010)

There has been merriment and lauhgter in our Oz-Brit household this weekend, wholly from me.


----------



## JimW (Dec 6, 2010)

Bold effort from the Aussies but Clarke going (and when he did) must have eliminated any serious chance bar weather of getting away with it.


----------



## mattie (Dec 6, 2010)

Marcus North double century?


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

JimW said:


> Bold effort from the Aussies but Clarke going (and when he did) must have eliminated any serious chance bar weather of getting away with it.


 
I seem to recall a not insignificant partnership between Haddin and Hussey in Brisbane.


----------



## JimW (Dec 6, 2010)

Fair point; still think it's a genuine turning point as we only need one of them to get into the tail, and hopefully new batsman on a damp morning won't stick around.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 6, 2010)

gabi said:


> Are the barmy army actually singing 'you all live in the fucking colonies'? To the tune of yellow submarine?
> 
> Lol. Takes a lot for a kiwi to support the ockers. Facepalm ahoy


 
I believe the line is 'convict colony' rather than fucking colonies, but never mind you face palm all you like.

I see your lot have reverted to type in the one dayers, they were trully dreadful the other day.


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 6, 2010)

The convicts are a total bastard to kill off.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

gabi said:


> Are the barmy army actually singing 'you all live in the fucking colonies'? To the tune of yellow submarine?
> 
> Lol. Takes a lot for a kiwi to support the ockers. Facepalm ahoy


 
It hasn't taken you anything at all. You have been supporting Australia as long as you have been posting on this board!


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 6, 2010)

please O Deities, let it not rain, and let us get an early breakthrough. We've really got the bastards on the rack


----------



## mattie (Dec 6, 2010)

gabi said:


> Are the barmy army actually singing 'you all live in the fucking colonies'? To the tune of yellow submarine?
> 
> Lol. Takes a lot for a kiwi to support the ockers. Facepalm ahoy



As mentioned above, it's 'convict colony'.  Which is strictly true, at least when their ancestors arrived there.

To which the shackle-draggers retort:

"we all live in a sunny paradise"

Which is strictly true, at least before their ancestors arrived there.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Idaho said:


> ITV4 had a really nice interview by the former wicket keeper Healy of Ponting. He brought out Ponting's better side.


 
Yes, I thought that too. Really to the point, direct questions from Healy. Really to the point, direct answers from Ponting. I've always liked the cut of Ricky Ponting's jib.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 6, 2010)

I didn't know they had a wicket keeper called Healy of Ponting.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> This is like some kind of proper Test match and not the hilarious, one-sided farce I had been promised.


 
Aye,lol, fairplay to Strauss, reckon batting for abit was the right thing to do given the situation now! Only 6 wickets to go, and we've won the test.  Gonna be a furstrating day though, fuckin bet ya.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Yes, I agree. I thought they should have declared overnight, but I think the decision to bat on has been vindicated. 

Four more balls of Pietersen and it's the second new ball tomorrow, with nice fresh bowlers to take it.


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

I think Swann will be given a couple of overs with the old ball before the new one is taken.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> I think Swann will be given a couple of overs with the old ball before the new one is taken.


 
Yeah I think so as well, also a couple more of Pieterson.  Two left handers both having to start from fresh could be a very interesting first few overs.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

What are the odds of Australia holding us to a draw?


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

Broad is out for the series apparently. Shazad in? Shazad and Tremlett for Collingwood and Broad?

On the betting markets, the draw is slightly favoured over an England win. You can get 400 on an Australian win!


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

I imagine the selectors would favour Bresnan for his batting, although I would go with Tremlett, especially on a fast wicket.

Although at this stage, the Broad news seems to consist of Michael Vaughan saying 'I reckon he's out for the series'. He's still not given up captaining from the commentary box.


----------



## embree (Dec 6, 2010)

If England had declared first thing, Australia would be level pegging and looking to get a lead first thing. Supporters always want declarations before players do. I trust the players


----------



## mattie (Dec 6, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Broad is out for the series apparently. Shazad in? Shazad and Tremlett for Collingwood and Broad?
> 
> On the betting markets, the draw is slightly favoured over an England win. You can get 400 on an Australian win!



Have I missed something - is Colly injured or are you just not convinced they'll stick with him?  I would change the absolute bare minimum at present.


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

Colly's main role in the side, after batting, bowling and fielding, is to be under constant threat of being dropped unless he has scored a century in the last 48 hours.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

Collingwood is fine, and if we could field 12 players, an essential part of the team.

The point is that we are struggling on these flat wickets, and we need more bowling firepower. Whilst at the same time, Collingwood is looking decidedly odd in the batting order between Pietersen and Bell.


----------



## embree (Dec 6, 2010)

gabi said:


> Are the barmy army actually singing 'you all live in the fucking colonies'? To the tune of yellow submarine?
> 
> Lol. Takes a lot for a kiwi to support the ockers. Facepalm ahoy


 
as has been pointed out, it's 'convict colony'. There's also 'we came with our backpacks, you with ball and chain' and a host of others.

It's taken in good spirit and they're having a giggle you po faced idiot


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

embree said:


> If England had declared first thing, Australia would be level pegging and looking to get a lead first thing. Supporters always want declarations before players do. I trust the players


 
Except at Adelaide four years ago, when I didn't understand the first innings declaration. I didn't think they'd lose, I just didn't see the value of declaring when the batsmen were making hay, and the follow-on target could have been made larger.


----------



## embree (Dec 6, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Except at Adelaide four years ago, when I didn't understand the first innings declaration. I didn't think they'd lose, I just didn't see the value of declaring when the batsmen were making hay, and the follow-on target could have been made larger.


 
Well that was Flintoff, he's a moron


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> I imagine the selectors would favour Bresnan for his batting, although I would go with Tremlett, especially on a fast wicket.


 
Shahzad actually has a higher first class batting average than Bresnan playing for the same team. I sincerely hope they do not go for Bresnan – he fails Richie Benaud's test for an all-rounder: he must be good enough to justify his place in the team on the back of one of the disciplines alone. Otherwise you end up with Derek Pringle.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 6, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Collingwood is fine, and if we could field 12 players, an essential part of the team.
> 
> The point is that we are struggling on these flat wickets, and we need more bowling firepower. Whilst at the same time, Collingwood is looking decidedly odd in the batting order between Pietersen and Bell.


 
If Broad is out there is no way they'll weaken the batting further by dropping Collingwood.  I also don't think they'll bring in Bresnan for Broad, it'll be Shazad or Tremlett.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Collingwood is looking decidedly odd in the batting order between Pietersen and Bell.


 So you drop him down to no. 6. 

I've called for Collingwood's head in the past, but he looked in reasonable touch in his little cameo this match and he is a good man for a crisis, as he's proved as recently as last winter in SA. He's an ugly batsman, even when playing well but so what – another no.5, a certain S Waugh, was never easy on the eye either, but he scored a lot more runs than his more gifted twin.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

You're probably right that they won't abandon the 4 bowler attack. I think it's daft of them. The reason they went for it was because our top order was very fragile. It's shown it's backbone in the last couple of games, time to show some flex. Batsmen can make it so you can't lose, it's bowlers who actually win games.

Don't get me wrong, I like Collingwood. He's a team man. Everyone likes him, and he can offer a bit of everything. I just think that we should be aiming for a 6 batsmen, 5 bowler England team.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

I agree, but there's no way they'll do it, and I wouldn't bring in a fifth bowler for the sake of it – Bresnan, for instance, offers little more than a willing stock bowler. It's a shame they didn't blood Shahzad more in the summer – a 789 of Shahzad, Broad and Swann would be perfectly fine, imo: three very capable number eights, basically. Then again, if they win here, they don't need to go chasing victories.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 6, 2010)

Idaho said:


> You're probably right that they won't abandon the 4 bowler attack. I think it's daft of them. The reason they went for it was because our top order was very fragile. It's shown it's backbone in the last couple of games, time to show some flex. Batsmen can make it so you can't lose, it's bowlers who actually win games.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I like Collingwood. He's a team man. Everyone likes him, and he can offer a bit of everything. I just think that we should be aiming for a 6 batsmen, 5 bowler England team.


 
I know where you're coming from, but its hard to think of any team in the modern era that has gone for this set up without having a world class all rounder.  

You'd think the aussies who are having real trouble bowling England out, and have a w/k who is as good if not better then Prior, should be looking at this.  I bet they don't though, its just not the done thing.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

I've never thought much of Bresnan. He's one of those bowlers who are flattered by the short formats of the game. He's not Test standard. He's an English Bollinger 

Shazad was excellent in the one match I saw him in. And also he was one of those excitable types, like Swann, who are great for keeping up morale.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Much as it pains me to say this, what England really need is a Shane Watson or a Jacques Kallis. TBH Australia's problem in the bowling department is quality, not quantity.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

The one test I saw live this year – Bangladesh at Lords – Finn looked very dangerous and Bresnan looked totally innocuous. He isn't test standard and never will be – good batsmen will be very disappointed to get out to him.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 6, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Much as it pains me to say this, what England really need is a Shane Watson or a Jacques Kallis. TBH Australia's problem in the bowling department is quality, not quantity.


 
Kallis yes, but Watson?  I'm not sure he'd get in the England side, his bowling is ok but never going to be any better and his batting the same.  He's a one day player that ended up as an opener because there was no one else.  I'd still rather have Collingwood, his batting his better and he's worth a wicket or two in the field.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

I thought Watson was a walking wicket at first, but he's impressed me this series. He's a very improved batsman who doesn't play across his pads any more. He looked poor against Swann yesterday, though: going hard at the ball with the bat is not the way to survive on a turning wicket. And he gets wickets regularly, like Kallis: a couple a game at an average of 30, which is more than enough for a fifth bowler.

On balance I'd take Watson over Collingwood for his bowling.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> I know where you're coming from, but its hard to think of any team in the modern era that has gone for this set up without having a world class all rounder.
> 
> You'd think the aussies who are having real trouble bowling England out, and have a w/k who is as good if not better then Prior, should be looking at this.  I bet they don't though, its just not the done thing.


 
I just don't agree with the mentality that says 'no-one else does this, therefore we shouldn't'. Cricket is a simple game, disguised as a complicated one. If our top order are firing, then we need to make sure we have a bowling attack to square the circle. 7s, 8s and 9s should be able to block, partner a specialist batsmen or have the occassional cameo 50. Anything more than that is a bonus. I don't want the bowlers picked on batting ability. I want wicket-takers. The solution to a fragile top order is not a weakened bowling attack.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

It's mentally good for the opposition to know that they're only two wickets away from the tail with just three down. In turn that puts pressure on the top six. I can see any captain being nervous of a tail starting at seven.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 6, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I thought Watson was a walking wicket at first, but he's impressed me this series. He's a very improved batsman who doesn't play across his pads any more. He looked poor against Swann yesterday, though: going hard at the ball with the bat is not the way to survive on a turning wicket. And he gets wickets regularly, like Kallis: a couple a game at an average of 30, which is more than enough for a fifth bowler.
> 
> On balance I'd take Watson over Collingwood for his bowling.



Two words:

Conversion rate.


50's do not win or save test matches.  

Oh and his bowling is a bit shit, but then again he's not the only one in baggy green who can be accused of that at the moment.  He's ok.


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

Would they select Watson as an opener if he didn't bowl?


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> Would they select Watson as an opener if he didn't bowl?


 
Yes I think so, but mainly because there is no one else.  Would Watson get in the team if they still had Langer and Hayden?

ETA: Actually thinking about it, he'd get the number 6 slot instead of North, where for me he is ideally suited.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Conversion rate.



Nah. If he scores a fifty every time he bats, that's job done. 

Late-career Allan Border hardly scored any centuries but still averaged over fifty. Averages don't lie, particularly with opening batsmen who face the new ball every innings, and Watson's average as opener is very good indeed.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 6, 2010)

Nobody but nobody better touch one selection hair on Collingwood's head 

I dunno.  My other perennial favourite Bell starts to actually perform so well that people leave him alone for a change and so they pick on Collingwood instead.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 6, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> So you drop him down to no. 6.
> 
> I've called for Collingwood's head in the past, but he looked in reasonable touch in his little cameo this match and he is a good man for a crisis, as he's proved as recently as last winter in SA. He's an ugly batsman, even when playing well but so what – another no.5, a certain S Waugh, was never easy on the eye either, but he scored a lot more runs than his more gifted twin.


I agree with all of this, and I'd add that when england are doing badly, he's the one player I'd bet on to roll up his sleeves, grit his teeth and dig in, which is why he's so often got us out of holes entirely of our own making


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Nobody but nobody better touch one selection hair on Collingwood's head
> 
> I dunno.  My other perennial favourite Bell starts to actually perform so well that people leave him alone for a change and so they pick on Collingwood instead.



 

It is the lot of the sixth-best batsman in any team to prop up the bar at the last chance saloon. Collingwood has his own tankard. He'll be ok.


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 6, 2010)

Oh yes, 'dig in', 'play for the shirt', 'passion'.

/King Kev


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

leave the brigadier alone! he's shit hot in a crisis, shit hot inthe field, and brings an interesting alternative as a 5th bowler.

and wasn't it just total quality when kp took that slimy little prick clarke's wicket last ball. class!


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

Why is Clarke a slimy little prick?


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Why is Clarke a slimy little prick?


 
just cos. and he tried it on when cook caught him - no way did he not know he'd blatantly hit the ball with his bat, he started to walk then decided to be said slimy prick. you could see he knew it too by the body language when he moped off. and he's australian. that kind of behaviour - it's just not cricket, is it?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Batsmen don't walk any more. I can't think of a single walker now. The last one was probably Lara, who said he couldn't help it – he could never hide his disgust at having got out.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

embree said:


> as has been pointed out, it's 'convict colony'. There's also 'we came with our backpacks, you with ball and chain' and a host of others.
> 
> It's taken in good spirit and they're having a giggle you po faced idiot


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> just cos. and he tried it on when cook caught him - no way did he not know he'd blatantly hit the ball with his bat, he started to walk then decided to be said slimy prick. you could see he knew it too by the body language when he moped off. and he's australian. that kind of behaviour - it's just not cricket, is it?


 
Personally I find all this needlessly venomous stuff to be not cricket. Cricket is about having respect within a competitive spirited game. I love the banter but frankly find it a bit embarrassing when people take the banter side of it that seriously.


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Cricket is about having respect within a competitive spirited game.


 
It's about beating Australia.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

I've never really got banter, whether in sports or anything else. I used to kind of play along with it as it seemed like the thing to do. Can't be bothered pretending any more.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> It's about beating Australia.


 
And how does someone anonymously and pointlessly calling a sportsman a slimy prick in any way contribute to that beating or the enjoyment of that beating?


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

Idaho said:


> And how does someone anonymously and pointlessly calling a sportsman a slimy prick in any way contribute to that beating or the enjoyment of that beating?


 
Where did I say that it did?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 6, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Batsmen don't walk any more. I can't think of a single walker now. The last one was probably Lara, who said he couldn't help it – he could never hide his disgust at having got out.


 
Gilchrist always walked, even when he was given not out.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Gilchrist always walked, even when he was given not out.


 
Like Lara then. Funny how it's the very best who were the walkers!

Atherton probably set the standard for England (of never walking). I wouldn't be surprised if they were all under team orders never to walk now.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 6, 2010)

guess what???Rain forecast all day today.Bad luck boys,so near yet so far


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 6, 2010)

The sky is looking pretty blue this morning in Adelaide


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

I used to hate it when England got away with one through the weather (which is, obviously, more common in the UK). Very unsatisfactory. Highly unsatistactory. As good as a defeat, in fact. No good at all.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 6, 2010)




----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Can't see anything, drrd.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 6, 2010)

It's bright and sunny in Adelaide...for now.

Swann and Pietersen to bowl with 7 men around the bat first thing.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 6, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Can't see anything, drrd.


 
I was trying tobe clever and add a live webcam pointing it the Oval.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Yeah fine, for four overs. Then take the new ball. Jimmy didn't get it quite right first time round, but I'd back him to get it right this time.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> I was trying tobe clever and add a live webcam pointing it the Oval.


 
Ah, ok. I genuinely was not praying for rain. I wanted to see play and to see England earn the draw. 

I know the feeling. I admit to conflicting emotions when McGrath trod on that ball. But it's wrong. It's better to win against the best team in the best conditions.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> It's bright and sunny in Adelaide...for now.
> 
> Swann and Pietersen to bowl with 7 men around the bat first thing.


 
Oh, that would be fun.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Personally I find all this needlessly venomous stuff to be not cricket. Cricket is about having respect within a competitive spirited game. I love the banter but frankly find it a bit embarrassing when people take the banter side of it that seriously.



i assure you there is little seriousness attached to my insults. you're quite right in what you said. i just took advantage of an opportunity to call an astralian cricketer a cunt, or something. i think the population of this thread are generally aware of the beautiful simple truths and principles of the game. it's nice that we're "winning" for once, and i do like calling people cunts occasionally. don't be embarrassed - haven't us english cricket fans done enough of that already?


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 6, 2010)

What time does the last day's play begin tonight?


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

is there a rotting carcass on the outfield? bumble's getting flies annoying him, as did cook, kp and others


----------



## paulhackett (Dec 6, 2010)

Nice, albeit mental, email to the cricinfo site.. apparently Australia should be all out just after lunch.. 



> "If the rain holds off and Australia defend well, we could get into a situation where they have to hold out for the last hour with 2 or 3 wickets left. What is relevant then is not the average number of runs that numbers 9, 10 and 11 have, but the average number of balls they have batted for. This stat comes up frequently. Edwards faced 33 balls to get a draw for WI in the 1st test against Zim in 2003. In the 33 test innings Brett Lee had had up to the 2nd Ashes test in 2005 he had only twice faced more than 70 balls: he survived 75 and almost pulled of a win for Australia. So it might be an idea for the statisticians to have these stats up their sleeves in case it gets close. The crude stats for the remaining batsmen show the average number of balls faced in test matches are Hussey (93) North (70), Haddin (62) Harris (28 - 1st class), Doherty (31 - 1st class), Siddle (24) and Bollinger (12). So we should expect Australia to be all out in 56 overs - some time after lunch."


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Cricket is the statistician's paradise, isn't it? I predict that an early wicket will lead to an early demise. Pura cup cricket doesn't even feature 5th day wickets. Let alone test-standard attacks. Swann was relatively unlucky yesterday. If he's relatively lucky today, it'll all be over quickly.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 6, 2010)

What time does play start please?


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

we need benedict on u75


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Think it's 11.30, paulie. 

Broad out for the series, it seems. Please go for Shahzad as his replacement, selectors.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 6, 2010)

cheers 

bad news about broad too.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Confirmed. We're off in 8 minutes.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Think it's 11.30, paulie.
> 
> Broad out for the series, it seems. Please go for Shahzad as his replacement, selectors.


 
Katich possibly out for the series to, they were saying.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Katich possibly out for the series to, they were saying.


 
No surprise there. Hughes in, presumably. He's good, Hughes.


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

Hughes lol


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

Whatever happened to that Jacques fellow?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

oo Phil Jacques, I don't know. Hughes is dangerous, though.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 6, 2010)

well my bet on an aussie victory looks all but scuttledEngland has been the best side by far this series so far.Dont know how we are going to recover from this.Got to make some changes in our attack but the form of our batsmen(Hussey excluded)has been abysmal.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> well my bet on an aussie victory looks all but scuttledEngland has been the best side by far this series so far.Dont know how we are going to recover from this.Got to make some changes in our attack but the form of our batsmen(Hussey excluded)has been abysmal.


 
Hungover abit, or something?


----------



## killer b (Dec 6, 2010)

the TMS stream sounds horrible.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

just outside the line.


----------



## Lock&Light (Dec 6, 2010)

killer b said:


> the TMS stream sounds horrible.


 
They've mentioned this and said that they're looking into it.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> is there a rotting carcass on the outfield?



come on you lot, i've set it up right there!!!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 6, 2010)

TMS stream sounds ok here


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

i've just passed 600 not out


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Dropped!


----------



## paulhackett (Dec 6, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> well my bet on an aussie victory looks all but scuttledEngland has been the best side by far this series so far.Dont know how we are going to recover from this.Got to make some changes in our attack but the form of our batsmen(Hussey excluded)has been abysmal.



Couldn't you poach some Kiwis? Vettori? Bond?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

OUt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 6, 2010)

Hussey's OUT !!!


----------



## killer b (Dec 6, 2010)

hussey goes.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

skill


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

Get out!!

I only saw that catch because Athers warned me.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

Oh dear. Prior reprieved.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

me too, i was knocking one off the wrist quickly


----------



## Santino (Dec 6, 2010)

Let's see how Haddin plays without Hussey.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 6, 2010)

warne with a cheap shot at Harmison.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 6, 2010)

easily done....


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 6, 2010)

One more and it's the tail.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

Haddin's not long for this innings.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

Back to spin now, please.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 7, 2010)

right, i'm watching swann's over and then i need my bed.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 7, 2010)

oh


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

Yes!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

And Haddin's out !!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

missed that wicket but don't care, wont miss another now!!!!!


----------



## paulhackett (Dec 7, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> right, i'm watching swann's over and then i need my bed.



You need to repeat this post until we get the next four wickets..


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

lovely


----------



## strung out (Dec 7, 2010)

yes! into the tail


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

HA!


----------



## killer b (Dec 7, 2010)

another!


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 7, 2010)

!!!!!!!!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

Yay! 1st Ball golden pair


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

Hahahahaahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa fuck yesssssssssssssssss


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

Don't fucking review it you whinging tart!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

Break out the dandelion and burdock


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2010)

That'll do it


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

Reviewed and OUT


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

OOOOOOhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> Don't fucking review it you whinging tart!


 
time wasting tactic duh! they be hoping for rain!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

Bye bye.


----------



## killer b (Dec 7, 2010)

all done by 1 surely?


----------



## strung out (Dec 7, 2010)

test match sofa was saying it wasn't out? hawkeye a bit dodgy?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

thats in line!!!!!!


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 7, 2010)

carnage


----------



## killer b (Dec 7, 2010)

oh lol. over by half past then?


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

YES!!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

is it is it is it is it is it is it is it ????

Hahahahhah....


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

.................................


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2010)

Amazing, this collapse will destroy any confidence aus had left.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 7, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> right, i'm watching swann's over and then i need my bed.


Did you go to bed then, if so some timing......


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2010)

Now *that* is how you review a decision, Australians.


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

strung out said:


> test match sofa was saying it wasn't out? hawkeye a bit dodgy?


 
The Harris wicket? Just barely skimming the bails according to the telly.


----------



## strung out (Dec 7, 2010)

hahaha


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

agricola said:


> Now *that* is how you review a decision, Australians.


 


p l u m Plum


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

agricola said:


> Now *that* is how you review a decision, Australians.


----------



## strung out (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> The Harris wicket? Just barely skimming the bails according to the telly.


 
yeah, saw that. they were saying hawkeye was a load of bollocks and it was obviously going over  i'm not complaining tbh...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> The Harris wicket? Just barely skimming the bails according to the telly.


 
Plumb by naked eye. I don't trust the bounce on hawkeye. I think it overestimates the bounce. Just look at Strauss's dismissal – hawkeye would have had that going over.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

oh my word!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

I love Vaughan's commentary - oooohs, aaaahs, catchits and yeesses


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2010)

lol @ Prior screaming at the bails


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

hat trick ball coming up......


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

oh fffffffs!


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2010)

I appreciate this is something that has been alluded to on many occasions during the past two tests, but you would think that (given all their dominance over the last twenty years) the Australian public could at least turn up to watch their lot not win a test match.


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

agricola said:


> I appreciate this is something that has been alluded to on many occasions during the past two tests, but you would think that (given all their dominance over the last twenty years) the Australian public could at least turn up to watch their lot not win a test match.


 
It's easy to be a passionate fan when you win all the time, isn't it?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

I believe the official response to that is that Australia is not in recession, so everyone's at work.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

agricola said:


> I appreciate this is something that has been alluded to on many occasions during the past two tests, but you would think that (given all their dominance over the last twenty years) the Australian public could at least turn up to watch their lot not win a test match.


 
They're too cocky/arrogant to accept defeat.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

Aggers is bating a Chappell nicely on TMS


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

I know it's not very fair to be fair to them, but there was absolutely nobody at the ground when England beat Australia at Headingley in 1981.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

Bowled!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

yeeeeeeeeeeeeesss!


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2010)

Did that wicket take anyone else by surprise?  Or have I drunk too much?


----------



## JimW (Dec 7, 2010)




----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

agricola said:


> Did that wicket take anyone else by surprise?  Or have I drunk too much?



It took Doherty by surprise


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2010)

Also is Monty the twelfth man?  That does take the piss.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

Kudos to the Barmy Army for singing Joy Division.


----------



## strung out (Dec 7, 2010)

i think that's the last we'll see of doherty in test cricket


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

agricola said:


> Also is Monty the twelfth man?  That does take the piss.


 
Just bringing on the drinks. He's not fielding!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

When the last Aus wicket falls it'll be for about 60 runs. The last six English wickets fell for over1,000 runs.

Just sayin'


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

I predict England will win this match.


----------



## strung out (Dec 7, 2010)

so are we winning now?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

strung out said:


> i think that's the last we'll see of doherty in test cricket


 
Without doubt. But who else do they bring in? They've already got to replace Katich. Their seamers look very ordinary...

Oh dear.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> I predict England will win this match.


 
Well, now you've fucking jinxed us.


----------



## strung out (Dec 7, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Without doubt. But who else do they bring in? They've already got to replace Katich. Their seamers look very ordinary...
> 
> Oh dear.


 
they'll have to swallow their pride and bring hauritz back in. it was a glorious test career from doherty


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

Fucking Shipping Forecast


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

Bollinger to get 50 then the rain falls.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 7, 2010)

i just went out to buy some weed quickly, 4 down since i left!! sky+ rules


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

nice fall


----------



## JimW (Dec 7, 2010)

Almost played it on his own stumps


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

strung out said:


> they'll have to swallow their pride and bring hauritz back in.


 
Guess so. He won't exactly be brimming with confidence, though.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 7, 2010)

it's shameful how the oz supporters have deserted their team when they're up against it. there should never be an empty seat at an ashes test...


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2010)

I was 10 when this last happened!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

Was just coming back into the room on that wicket but fuck it, yeeeeeeeees!!!!!!!!


----------



## JimW (Dec 7, 2010)

Smart.


----------



## DJ Squelch (Dec 7, 2010)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 7, 2010)

Just got online in time to say: G'WAAAAN!!!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

Fucking missed the last wicket during the cunting shipping forecast


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

a_chap said:


> Fucking missed the last wicket during the cunting shipping forecast


 
that's why i hate the radio cricket coverage!


----------



## marty21 (Dec 7, 2010)

early night

1-0 

Aussies very poor 

surely they will come back stronger ?


----------



## Lock&Light (Dec 7, 2010)

Straus has been proved quite right, yesterday morning, when he delayed the declaration. He's now won by an innings.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

Lock&Light said:


> Straus has been proved quite right, yesterday morning, when he delayed the declaration. He's now won by an innings.


 
Yup, fairplay to him as i said before!


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

Win by a FUCKING INNINGS


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 7, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Was just coming back into the room on that wicket but fuck it, yeeeeeeeees!!!!!!!!


 
Same here went out for a bag of crisps in the kitchen when i got back the wicket had fallen


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

I was all set up for a late night.


----------



## JimW (Dec 7, 2010)

a_chap said:


> Fucking missed the last wicket during the cunting shipping forecast


 
On the bright side, you know not to go trawling off the Dogger Bank


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> Win by a FUCKING INNINGS


 
Someone will probably know better than I, but is this the first time we have beaten them by an innings in Australia since 1912?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

Does that make you 108?


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Does that make you 108?


 
that was just the last time we had beaten them in a test match over there


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

What year was that? 

Odd, I always have people on Urban down as my age.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 7, 2010)

a_chap said:


> Fucking missed the last wicket during the cunting shipping forecast


They did suggest you build a digital radio...








Sorry


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> What year was that?
> 
> Odd, I always have people on Urban down as my age.


 
1986?  Admittedly it is based on the preamble to this.


----------



## strung out (Dec 7, 2010)

agricola said:


> Someone will probably know better than I, but is this the first time we have beaten them by an innings in Australia since 1912?


 
1986 we won by an innings in australia at melbourne http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Englis...mber_26.2C_1986_.E2.80.93_December_28.2C_1986


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

Ah, by an innings, missed that bit. I thought you just meant beating Aus! 


Good interview from Ponting again, I thought. He doesn't shy away from any questions.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 7, 2010)

marty21 said:


> early night



but there's 6+ hrs of replays to watch!! and there'll be a piece about 2005, you probably haven't seen that yet...


----------



## agricola (Dec 7, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ah, by an innings, missed that bit. I thought you just meant beating Aus!
> 
> 
> Good interview from Ponting again, I thought. He doesn't shy away from any questions.


_ 
"take swann away and the attacks are the same"_


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

Yeah, he's got to say that, though. At least two of those bowlers will be turning out for him at Perth. Doherty's offski, so no need to defend him but he's got to talk up the rest of them.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 7, 2010)

kp won it for us!!


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 7, 2010)

ffs have you all fucked off now? you'll miss beefy's 'tale of the test' thingy he always does


----------



## strung out (Dec 7, 2010)

am still here listening to the test match sofa round-up


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 7, 2010)

strauss' captaincy has been excellent. 

discuss..


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 7, 2010)

nice 1 strung


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 7, 2010)

i'm really fucking chuffed about this, to take a 1-0 lead with an innings to spare is awesome. early days still though...


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 7, 2010)

ok everyone night night i'm gonna smoke some weed and watch highlights!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> ffs have you all fucked off now? you'll miss beefy's 'tale of the test' thingy he always does


 
I've been watching it/other stuff, too happy&tired to bother posting much!


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

Is there a chance that England will start to just bat Australia out of every match? 700-4 and then declare with 5 sessions remaining.


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> guess what???Rain forecast all day today.Bad luck boys,so near yet so far


 
I'm just quoting this before I continue reading the rest of the thread


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

Right:

Wonderful, wonderful win. We lost 5 wickets to their 20. We have dominated the last seven days' play against them. Australia are absolutely fucking awful. They can't bat, bowl or field, they have no idea what their best team is, the captain lacks imagination and confidence in his team and the selectors are clueless. England are the complete reverse of this, they are well prepared, confident, have great team spirit and pretty much everyone is in form.

We will retain the Ashes at Perth and win the series in Melbourne. Australia have got nothing.

This five bowlers debate is bollocks though isn't it? The ONLY time you pick a fifth bowler is if you have someone as good as Botham who won't unbalance the side. Even Flintoff unbalanced the side and we won more without him than with him. If you can't do it with four, you won't do it with five, it's the sort of thing teams do when they're all at sea selection wise and haven't the bowlers to finish the job. Look out there this morning and you can see that we have got the bowlers to finish the job against this shower of shit. It's not even worth talking about.

England 4-0


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

by the way, it started raining in Adelaide fifteen minutes ago


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 7, 2010)

its ok,just winding some of you up


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

strung out said:


> test match sofa was saying it wasn't out? hawkeye a bit dodgy?


 
It was shown to be hitting the bails. Umpire gave it out so that means the decision goes with the umpire, therefore out. Had the umpire not given it and England referred then it would have been not out


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> So you drop him down to no. 6.
> 
> I've called for Collingwood's head in the past, but he looked in reasonable touch in his little cameo this match and he is a good man for a crisis, as he's proved as recently as last winter in SA. He's an ugly batsman, even when playing well but so what – another no.5, a certain S Waugh, was never easy on the eye either, but he scored a lot more runs than his more gifted twin.


 
There's an element of England fans who always have to have it in for one of the top six. Collingwood, Bell, Cook, back to Collingwood. Fact is we have a top six who are all in good nick and none of them should be dropped. It's beyond me why people are forever clamouring to tinker with a good side who are obviously getting better


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

For four years, the name 'Adelaide' was a dirty word in English cricket circles. I know of people who wouldn't even let the syllables pass their lips such was the horror of that last day in December 2006

No more. Adelaide is the scene of Australia's worst home defeat in 17 years, of England's finest win in Australia in 24 years.

3 wickets for 2 runs in 13 balls
245 all out on a shirt front
Ali Cook passing 1050 minutes and 383 runs before finally being dismissed
Cook & Jonathon Trott adding over 500 runs as a partnership before finally being separated
Kevin Pietersen making his highest Test score after 20 months without a Test century.
Four consecutive century partnerships in the same innings
Two double centuries in consecutive Tests for different batsmen
Four English batsmen averaging over 100 for the series, one over 200
Australia collapsing yet again
Graeme Swann equals Derek Underwood's English record for overseas test five-fors
England: 620-5 Australia: 549-20
1-0 up with three to play. One more win will retain the Ashes.
A whole load of ghosts exorcised just two Tests into the series. This lot have _nothing_
Ponting, like Lara, leading his team into the shadows as the greats retire and aren't replaced

"We'll see what we're made of" said Ricky before the start of play this morning. Yes Ricky, we certainly did.
Strauss should have declared earlier and we should have had five bowlers 

Following Sri Lanka's drawn series with West Indies, England are up to third in the world. When we have won this series and South Africa have beaten India, we will be breathing down the necks of those two.

Damn right I'm savouring the moment


----------



## killer b (Dec 7, 2010)

did the last wicket really go at 1? 5 minutes after i gave up and went to bed?


----------



## Badgers (Dec 7, 2010)

Excellent stuff!!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 7, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> the grim reality is all cyber friendships must cease during the ashes so its"GOOD MORNING BASTARDS"HOPE YOUR ALL FELLING SHITEIts gunna be 36cel at the ground today but it will be hotter at the crease when Douggy starts putting them thru your boys.Looking for a few early wickets and to wrap up the innings at tea


 
I just felt like quoting this 

"when Douggy starts putting them thru your boys" hahahahahahahahahahahaha


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 7, 2010)

What a fantastic win for England, we totally outplayed the aussies in every department, just need to keep the intensity up now, the aussies need to win at least two of the next three tests and at the moment they don't look like getting 20 wickets ever.

It will be interesting to see what both teams do selction wise at Perth.  For England they will probably just make the one change with Tremlett coming in for Broad.  Personally I'd like to see Shazad given the chance but as Nasser was saying on Sky they pretty much brought Tremlett along for Perth, so if not now when?  

On the 4 or 5 bowler discussion I am a bit concerned about going into a test match with only 3 seamers two of which are very green in test terms.

As for the aussies, well what a mess?  What do you do?  On flat pitches England are the far better team, but if you get result pitches prepared England have the better attack and will probably benefit more.  Bollinger - 80mph  Hilf - 80mph  Harris - Not fit   Johnson - All over the place

Its a real problem for the selectors, I think Hauritz should come back because he has way more control and will add some steel down the order which they are badly lacking (king pair for #8, fuck me).  With Katich injured there will either be this Usman chap or Phil Hughes, probably the former as Hughes seems to have a mental issue playing against England.  And personally I'd probably bring Mitchell Johnston back although quite how he would have sorted his game out by fielding as 12th man I'm not sure?

Anyway thats a while off, well done England and well done for rubbing their noses in it, fuck me they only had to last till the afternoon because of the storms and they couldnt even do that.

Oh and final point, the aussies need to get rid of North, no bottle when the chips are down.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 7, 2010)

WOO!!!!

that is all


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

I'm re-living the match by listening to all five TMS podcasts.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 7, 2010)

It's a fine, fine result 

The talk seems to be more for Tremlett than Shazad. I don't have a problem with playing inexperienced players. They are joining at the best time, when the team are upbeat and confident.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 7, 2010)

my father in law texts 'get ready for the fightback in Perth, you guys will be in trouble'

i replied i hoped he hadn't put any money on his 3-0 prediction after the Brisbane test.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

Cynically, we don't need any more wins.  We just need to avoid losing.  On that basis, it's best to err on the side of defence rather than offence, play with the full six batsmen and make do with four bowlers plus cameos from Collingwood and Pietersen.  After all, the latter made the big breakthrough at the end of day 4, which sows that they are no mugs.


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Cynically, we don't need any more wins.  We just need to avoid losing.  On that basis, it's best to err on the side of defence rather than offence, play with the full six batsmen and make do with four bowlers plus cameos from Collingwood and Pietersen.  After all, the latter made the big breakthrough at the end of day 4, which sows that they are no mugs.


 
On the one hand it would be hilarious to see England bat first and rack up some monumental total over three days, but I think there's no way that they would then want to bowl at Australia twice in a row with only four full-time bowlers.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 7, 2010)

You can't play for draws from the start. If you try that you end up losing and looking bad while you do it. I expect the team will play positively.

Still standing by my 3-1/2-2 prediction.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 7, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> right, i'm watching swann's over and then i need my bed.


^^^^worst decision of the year????


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> ^^^^worst decision of the year????


 
"Let's go with Xavier Doherty."


----------



## Dan U (Dec 7, 2010)

bollocks to all this playing for draws business.

hit them and hit them hard, at least in the next test.

lets beat them fair and square.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> On the one hand it would be hilarious to see England bat first and rack up some monumental total over three days, but I think there's no way that they would then want to bowl at Australia twice in a row with only four full-time bowlers.


 


Idaho said:


> You can't play for draws from the start. If you try that you end up losing and looking bad while you do it. I expect the team will play positively.
> 
> Still standing by my 3-1/2-2 prediction.


Just because you're playing with four bowlers, doesn't mean you're playing for the draw though.  After all, we just won with four bowlers.  It just means that if things play out in their normal course, batting innings will be longer and a draw will be more likely.  

And you play to the odds.  Suppose that the two teams were equal -- a 50% chance of a draw with 25% chance of each team winning would suit England better at this stage than a 33% chance of each.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

Dan U said:


> bollocks to all this playing for draws business.
> 
> hit them and hit them hard, at least in the next test.
> 
> lets beat them fair and square.



this


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 7, 2010)

excuse me chaps, but.... *YEEEAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!*
Thank you. I've waited all my life, iot seems, for this moment. We didn't just beat them, we hammered them out of sight.
TBH, I can't see england losing a test now, simply cos i can't see what, or rather who, Australia are gonna win it with. katich injured, ponting vulnerable, Clarke and Johnson out of nick. Neither Hussey or Siddle can dom it all by themselves


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

All malice aside, I think Ponting would be best off giving up the captaincy to focus on his batting for the next three matches. But Clarke is no longer his automatic successor, is he?


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> excuse me chaps, but.... *YEEEAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!*
> Thank you. I've waited all my life, iot seems, for this moment. We didn't just beat them, we hammered them out of sight.
> TBH, I can't see england losing a test now, simply cos i can't see what, or rather who, Australia are gonna win it with. katich injured, ponting vulnerable, Clarke and Johnson out of nick. Neither Hussey or Siddle can dom it all by themselves


 
In all your life watching cricket, how many times have you seen a side utterly played out of sight and then come back to win the next test?  Quite a lot, I'm guessing.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> "Let's go with Xavier Doherty."


at least _he_ got to see the match...


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

Even clothes are mocking him.


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

kabbes said:


> In all your life watching cricket, how many times have you seen a side utterly played out of sight and then come back to win the next test?  Quite a lot, I'm guessing.


 
I've seen sides_ with proven match-winners_ come back to win the next match.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> I've seen sides_ with proven match-winners_ come back to win the next match.


 
I've seen previously anonymous bowlers make sudden break-throughs too.

And even Devon Malcolm once got 9/57 against South Africa.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 7, 2010)

kabbes said:


> In all your life watching cricket, how many times have you seen a side utterly played out of sight and then come back to win the next test?  Quite a lot, I'm guessing.


true, but I can't see _this_ Australia doing it to _this_ England.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 7, 2010)

kabbes said:


> And even Devon Malcolm once got 9/57 against South Africa.


I wouldn't have described Malcolm as 'anonymous' before then - just infuriatingly inconsistent


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

Neither would I -- hence the "And" at the start of the sentence.


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

In truth all Australia need to do to improve is stick to the basics. Don't give away your wicket, bowl consistently to a reasonable field and don't drop your catches. But that's way more easily said that done when the team is falling to pieces around them. They need to re-shuffle the bowling attack again, as well as replace Katich, so the squad for Perth will already have three different players. In those circumstances do you really want to drop North as well? I wonder if Hussey could make do as an opener so that there's _some_ consistency.

The best they could do is to pick a half-decent squad and let them know thay they're all secure for the rest of the series, so that at least they can play with some confidence that they won't be dropped after one bad performance.


----------



## g force (Dec 7, 2010)

Australia's problem is the inability to bowl...before they could intimidate a team with a team sheet that included McGrath, Lee and Warne. Now they can't. The batting isn't that bad they've simply been out played - it wasn't so long ago Peterson looked shit, Strauss looked out of touch and Bell was going to be booted out.

Form is temporary, class is permanent and Aus have the batting talent. What they lack is the bowling attach to take 20 wickets without giving cheap runs away


----------



## Idaho (Dec 7, 2010)

The current Betfair markets for the series:

Australia 2 - 1  10.5 
Australia 3 - 1  27 
England  1 - 0  23 
England  2 - 0  7.2 
England  3 - 0  6.8 
England  4 - 0  14.5 
England  2 - 1  5.2 
England  3 - 1  9 
Draw      1 - 1  9.6 
Draw      2 - 2  12.5 

2-1 to England being the most fancied score.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

Basically, 22-to-1 on the next three matches being draws.

Seems relatively long -- each match having the draw at just under 2-1.  They're only making it 15% more unlikely that Australia win each of the next three.


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Basically, 22-to-1 on the next three matches being draws.
> 
> Seems relatively long -- each match having the draw burble burbley doo da wizzygig. Blah blah-di-blah furble fibbly.



I see. Do go on.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

That's what your mum said.


----------



## mattie (Dec 7, 2010)

kabbes said:


> That's what your mum said.



She's very well spoken.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 7, 2010)

Review from the aussie press here:

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/second-ashes-test-player-ratings-20101207-18o71.html

They do have a nice line in humour despite the mauling.

On Doug Bollinger:



> Pietersen gave more respect to the guy driving the inflatable drinks cart.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

Depends if her mouth is full.

ALTERNATIVE GAG:

Yes, she sounds like she has plums in her mouth.

ALTERNATIVE GAG:

Heh.  Gag.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Review from the aussie press here:
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/second-ashes-test-player-ratings-20101207-18o71.html


Awesome:



> Alistair Cook
> Plenty of natives thought he was Joe Average, a beige English compiler with as much batting charisma as a bag of wood. As it happens, he's possibly the best player in the history of cricket. If England bat in Perth, a tactical air strike early on day one is the only thing I can think of to knock him over. *A*


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

Oh, and this is what the Aussies think of my man Colly:



> Paul Collingwood
> Did his job with the bat, chipped in with the ball, held some crucial catches and made a very solid overall contribution. *The Australians would love one or two of his type; a stubborn, fighting campaigner who can aim up under pressure*. Stripped down to his jocks and did a slide in the wet to celebrate. I'm thrilled I didn't see that part for so many reasons - but mostly because he's a ginger. B


----------



## Dan U (Dec 7, 2010)

enjoyed that link, ta Teaboy

from the same site...

lol @ Beefy and Chappell

http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/cricket-legends-come-to-blows-at-ashes-20101207-18o28.html


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 7, 2010)

Dan U said:


> enjoyed that link, ta Teaboy
> 
> from the same site...
> 
> ...


 
Ha ha,

Botham doesnt change.


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Cynically, we don't need any more wins.  We just need to avoid losing.  On that basis, it's best to err on the side of defence rather than offence, play with the full six batsmen and make do with four bowlers plus cameos from Collingwood and Pietersen.  After all, the latter made the big breakthrough at the end of day 4, which sows that they are no mugs.


 
yes, the same defensive tactics that just brought us an innings victory

there's nothing defensive about six batsmen when they are collectively capable of batting the opposition to death and demoralising them enough to induce a second innings collapse. Scoreboard pressure, Australia were great at it in the days when they weren't appallingly shit


----------



## Idaho (Dec 7, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Review from the aussie press here:
> 
> http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket/second-ashes-test-player-ratings-20101207-18o71.html


 
Hehehe:



> Marcus North Marcus, sit down. I have some bad news. We've gone through the replays and and your batting woes are terminal. At this stage, it's more about quality of life than aggressive treatment options. I recommend you go back to Perth, surround yourself with family and Shield players and make the best of each innings as it comes. D


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> All malice aside, I think Ponting would be best off giving up the captaincy to focus on his batting for the next three matches. But Clarke is no longer his automatic successor, is he?


 
I think he'd be best off giving it up because his captaincy has been unremittingly dreadful throughout. Not so easy to captain a Test side without McGrath and Warne is it?


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 7, 2010)

I now understand how some people get their jollies kicking puppies - I've been reading the Aussie press all morning! Christ, are they _down_.


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

g force said:


> Australia's problem is the inability to bowl...before they could intimidate a team with a team sheet that included McGrath, Lee and Warne. Now they can't. The batting isn't that bad they've simply been out played - it wasn't so long ago Peterson looked shit, Strauss looked out of touch and Bell was going to be booted out.
> 
> Form is temporary, class is permanent and Aus have the batting talent. What they lack is the bowling attach to take 20 wickets without giving cheap runs away


 
No, the batting is that bad. One decent partnership in Brisbane, the rest folded on the flattest pitch in the history of Test cricket. Then they were rolled for 245 on a road. Then curled up and died in the face of a teensy bit of pressure on the last day at Adelaide when a little backbone was needed. How is their completely unthreatening powder puff bowling supposed to come out with anything to aim at when they're given nothing to defend?

No Katich now. Who comes in? Hughes? Don't make me fucking laugh. Twatto is a decent start and no more. Ponting hit the long downward slope some time ago and isn't recovering. Clarke's back is plainly fucked and will only allow him to play freely on occasion. Hussey showed his true mettle when playing that dreadful shot this morning to allow the floodgates to open. North is shit. Haddin's only occasionally threatening, give me Prior any day. Then they have four number 11s.

Shit shit shit


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> In truth all Australia need to do to improve is stick to the basics.


They also need to have most of the following suffer a massive loss of form and confidence; Cook, Strauss, trott, KP, Bell, Jimmy, Swann....


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> They also need to have most of the following suffer a massive loss of form and confidence; Cook, Strauss, trott, KP, Bell, Jimmy, Swann....


 
Wel, yes. Sticking to the basics won't win them the series, but it would make them look less like twats.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 7, 2010)

christ, this feels as good as skittling ther windies for 61. And what's even better is one thing I am now convinced of; get hussey and Haddn out for a modest score each - and we've got the whole aussie side beat. They're the only ones who'll fight to the last


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> They also need to have most of the following suffer a massive loss of form and confidence; Cook, Strauss, trott, KP, Bell, Jimmy, Swann....


 
they also need to not roll over and die when we apply a bit of pressure. When Hussey and Haddin were adding 300 in Brisbane we stuck with it and when the wicket came the others followed in quick order. The same cannot be said of Australia. Their body language in the field was terrible, they were a beaten team and Ponting knew it. Like Lara he's played with champions and now looks around and sees only pygmies. This is their 1989. Who do they bring in? The warm up matches showed there is next to nobody playing Shield cricket who can step up.


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

England now have two out of the top three bowlers in the current ICC rankings.


----------



## mrkikiet (Dec 7, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> christ, this feels as good as skittling ther windies for 61. And what's even better is one thing I am now convinced of; get hussey and Haddn out for a modest score each - and we've got the whole aussie side beat. They're the only ones who'll fight to the last


 
this feels very very unreal.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

West Indies had Ambrose, Walsh and Bishop into the 90s. Or did you mean their 1999?


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> West Indies had Ambrose, Walsh and Bishop into the 90s. Or did you mean their 1999?


 
sorry, mixed comparison. This is Australia's equivalent of England in 1989 - utter chaos as a young up and coming team come over and roll them. This also Australia's equivalent of the West Indies' late 90s and beyond


----------



## Idaho (Dec 7, 2010)

I find it a bit depressing in some ways. Are we going to be the only country who plays competitive test cricket in a few years?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 7, 2010)

India are the team to beat at the moment. Sri Lanka probably have the edge on England too. Next summer will be interesting. 

Don't worry about test cricket – India drew big crowds for their recent mini-series against Australia. It's not dying.


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> India are the team to beat at the moment. Sri Lanka probably have the edge on England too. Next summer will be interesting.
> 
> Don't worry about test cricket – India drew big crowds for their recent mini-series against Australia. It's not dying.


 
Indian fans are pretty fickle though. Remember how they 'didn't like' Twenty20? All it would take is a swift drop down the rankings and some flat pitches and the crowds would soon vanish.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 7, 2010)

embree said:


> they also need to not roll over and die when we apply a bit of pressure. When Hussey and Haddin were adding 300 in Brisbane we stuck with it and when the wicket came the others followed in quick order. The same cannot be said of Australia. Their body language in the field was terrible, they were a beaten team and Ponting knew it. Like Lara he's played with champions and now looks around and sees only pygmies. This is their 1989. Who do they bring in? The warm up matches showed there is next to nobody playing Shield cricket who can step up.


100% agreed - and loving it!


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

Forgot to add: 

lol


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 7, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> India are the team to beat at the moment. Sri Lanka probably have the edge on England too. Next summer will be interesting.


there's also the Saffas, still ahead of us in the rankings, aren't they?


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

Congratulations also due to England's travelling fans who help keep home associations in profit for Test series, support the team and ensure that home teams are never truly playing in a home atmosphere.

And bollocks to those on here and elsewhere who whinge about them. They're great


----------



## Idaho (Dec 7, 2010)

Going on an Ashes tour would be about the only thing that would ever drag me to Australia. Maybe one for retirement or lottery win.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 7, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Going on an Ashes tour would be about the only thing that would ever drag me to Australia. Maybe one for retirement or lottery win.



everyone i know whose been has said its great.

know someone who has been to the first two tests and is on their way home tomorrow. can't wait to catch up with them, what a trip.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2010)

Yeah, fuck off gabi.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 7, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Yeah, fuck off gabi.


 
Random...


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

*Hey*

Remember when England beat Australia by an innings?

That was great.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 7, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Random...


 
Not random, supposed to mirror his interested disinterest. Not needed. There's proper discussion going on.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 7, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> where do you get your strange ideas from?You rescue one match,just one match against us and now you are world beaters.See how you go after Adelaide old son,looking forward to some rerun excuses


quoted for posterity


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

While we're on the subject...



gabi said:


> well, i think that's probably a true statement but nope.. i read english press tho. which has spent the last few weeks claiming that the aussies are past it and england's gonna trounce em. lol.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 7, 2010)

It's at rtimes I wish we had more aussie posters


----------



## mattie (Dec 7, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> It's at rtimes I wish we had more aussie posters



Steady on.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 7, 2010)

shoulda said 'times like this' btw, and i only mean so we can enjoy their misery.....


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> Remember when England beat Australia by an innings?
> 
> That was great.


 
Do you remember when Pietersen got that double century against them!  In Adelaide, of all places?!


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

I note that the Australian press is speculating on Haddin batting six in Perth to accommodate an extra bowler. This is what happens when teams become desperate, they imagine extra bowlers will somehow conjure up more wickets

Expect result pitches now  they need them. Of course, result pitches mean that the better side is more likely to win. That's England by the way


----------



## Santino (Dec 7, 2010)

Australia's best chance is probably the fifth Test, when the Ashes are secure and England just phone it in.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 7, 2010)

The hubris!

I've been watching England too long to rest on any Laurels. I won't turn on the supporter cruise control unless we win in Perth by a margin


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

Santino said:


> Australia's best chance is probably the fifth Test, when the Ashes are secure and England just phone it in.


 
except Sydney has always been the one most suited for the spinners and we have the greatest living Englishman, Graeme Swann, for that. I really hope we break them completely, after Adelaide I want 4-0. Do what they did to us for so many years - boot on throat and kick them repeatedly in the bollocks until the very end. Then smile, shake hands and go home with the Ashes. No pity, no let up, no 'oh isn't it a shame they're not what they were'. Just keep kicking them when they're down.


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

Idaho said:


> The hubris!
> 
> I've been watching England too long to rest on any Laurels. I won't turn on the supporter cruise control unless we win in Perth by a margin


 
hubris my arse, it's the evidence of two Tests and the last six months of Australian cricket.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 7, 2010)

embree said:


> except Sydney has always been the one most suited for the spinners and we have the greatest living Englishman, Graeme Swann, for that. I really hope we break them completely, after Adelaide I want 4-0. Do what they did to us for so many years - boot on throat and kick them repeatedly in the bollocks until the very end. Then smile, shake hands and go home with the Ashes. No pity, no let up, no 'oh isn't it a shame they're not what they were'. Just keep kicking them when they're down.


 
100% this.


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

oh and supporter hubris is OK because the team and coaching staff are not suffering from it. Which is why, as the better side, we will win comfortably. Because they won't rest on their laurels and there's enough of them who were part of the 5-0 to want hefty revenge and know how to exact it now.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

Notable for this test series has been the exemplary preparation.  So much better than last time round, with nothing left to chance.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 7, 2010)

Idaho said:


> The hubris!
> 
> I've been watching England too long to rest on any Laurels. I won't turn on the supporter cruise control unless we win in Perth by a margin


 
X2


----------



## kabbes (Dec 7, 2010)

alt-158.

Learn it, love it.

×2.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 7, 2010)

Just been reading the Melbourne Age website. They have utterly written off the series for Australia.


----------



## embree (Dec 7, 2010)

Dan U said:


> Just been reading the Melbourne Age website. They have utterly written off the series for Australia.


 
Yeah, SMH makes hilarious reading too

ITV4 highlights starting now


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 7, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I find it a bit depressing in some ways. Are we going to be the only country who plays competitive test cricket in a few years?


You think the country that produced Waugh, Warne, Border, Lillee, Bradman, McGrath and the list goes on is a spent force?

The Aussies get bigger crowds for tests in places like Sydney than any premiership team.


----------



## strung out (Dec 8, 2010)

ferrelhadley said:


> The Aussies get bigger crowds for tests in places like Sydney than any premiership team.


 
given that you can only fit 46,000 into the SCG and man united (among others) regularly get crowds in excess of 50, 60, 70k+, i think you might be wrong on that one


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 8, 2010)

I think we should bring in Micheal Klinger for Katitch and Steve Smith for Doherty.Couple of names for you to look up.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 8, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> I think we should bring in Micheal Klinger for Katitch and Steve Smith for Doherty.Couple of names for you to look up.


 
Shane's being cheeky in the British press today saying 'he's flattered' to be mentioned as a returner, he wants Michael Beer though. Or possibly just wants a beer.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 8, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> I think we should bring in Micheal Klinger for Katitch and Steve Smith for Doherty.Couple of names for you to look up.


Smith we know about - he played for the aussies at Lords V pakistan. terrific young prospect, decent leggy, but not the finished article yet. Hughes also looks nailed-on for Perth.
How does a crushing, ballsqueezing, arsekicking, emphatic hammering feel, btw?


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 8, 2010)

embree said:


> except Sydney has always been the one most suited for the spinners and we have the greatest living Englishman, Graeme Swann, for that. I really hope we break them completely, after Adelaide I want 4-0. Do what they did to us for so many years - boot on throat and kick them repeatedly in the bollocks until the very end. Then smile, shake hands and go home with the Ashes. No pity, no let up, no 'oh isn't it a shame they're not what they were'. Just keep kicking them when they're down.


LIKE!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

Harris likely out.


----------



## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Harris likely out.


 
Injury?

Man, they are so, so fucked.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

Yep, news later today.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 8, 2010)

oh this just keeps on getting better


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 8, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Harris likely out.


 
Oh dear!


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 8, 2010)

Dropping players then calling them up again the next match. Doesn't sound very healthy to me.

I vote for bringing Warne back


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 8, 2010)

getting flogged by the poms is a rare event in my lifetime,i am still a little stunned,however the best side won and thats all there is to it.We have to try and salvage something out of it that will be a positive for the next test.What that is,i dont know but too many changes cant be good.It may be the jolt we need to get back to the reality of young blood needs to be nurtured over a period of 3-4 years not months


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

So you *may* be up for fighting for the 2016 ashes is that what you're saying?


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 8, 2010)

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/current/video_audio/490772.html

^^^Ian Chappell has pretty much given up hope for the series.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 8, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/content/current/video_audio/490772.html
> 
> ^^^Ian Chappell has pretty much given up hope for the series.


 
aww


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 8, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> So you *may* be up for fighting for the 2016 ashes is that what you're saying?


 indeed,this series looks pretty well fucked to me and i make no bones about it.After two tests our attack has been exposed as second rate and the batsmen have not stood up to some excellent bowling.Do you think Rod Marsh may have done some good with the way England are going now in his time there?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 8, 2010)

((((((aussies)))))))


----------



## fen_boy (Dec 8, 2010)

I'm not sure about all this hubris.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

He's all over the shop is Marsh - i think he def played a role the long term comeback of england, in terms of what the expected roles are and how the people attempting to fill them should act. Marsh, is, like ponting, someone i really want hate - but can't. Ponting esp, he ruined my night by being so gracious, so open and so...nice...


----------



## embree (Dec 8, 2010)

Marsh may have been part of the story but only part of it. Central contracts, more professional backroom staff, proper planning etc etc etc also helped.

Australia seem to be basing their current selection on England in the 1980s and 1990s

As for Ponting - when he stops showing dissent to umpires I'll start giving him some credit for his honest persona off the field


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

Planning's good. Luck comes into it too. England didn't plan Graeme Swann's coming of age any more than Australia planned Shane Warne.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

We might get 3 captains if we're lucky


----------



## embree (Dec 8, 2010)

Is the Victoria game being shown on Sky btw?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

embree said:


> As for Ponting - when he stops showing dissent to umpires I'll start giving him some credit for his honest persona off the field


 
I find his dissent quite endearing too. It's honest dissent. He almost certainly took that catch off Cook cleanly, and he was right, I think, to ask the umpire why he wouldn't trust his eyes.


----------



## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

How many times has Ponting been up before the umpires/ICC?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

Ponting's never given it the gob in the ashes, it's the other tests where he's applied consistent pressure that's the problem.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 8, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> ((((((aussies)))))))


((((ponting)))))


----------



## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Planning's good. Luck comes into it too. England didn't plan Graeme Swann's coming of age any more than Australia planned Shane Warne.


 
No, but they've been actively developing young players for years. Australia had a squad more or less set in stone for the best part of a decade. Where was there for players to develop TO? There was no younger generation coming through because there was no opportunity to play for the country, and it seems to have caused their whole development system to atrophy.


Disclaimer: I basically know fuck all about how Australian cricket is run.


----------



## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Ponting's never given it the gob in the ashes, it's the other tests where he's applied consistent pressure that's the problem.


 
He wasn't pleased when he was run out by (sub) in 2005.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Planning's good. Luck comes into it too. England didn't plan Graeme Swann's coming of age any more than Australia planned Shane Warne.


 
Worst example ever


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

Santino said:


> He wasn't pleased when he was run out by (sub) in 2005.


 
Pic someone please, quick


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

Why? How is Swann an example of England's genius planning?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 8, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> ((((ponting)))))


 
Nah, fuck him.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Why? How is Swann an example of England's genius planning?


 
The other one. Actually. I've fucked that right up. Thought you were saying warne (another aussie i hate/love) was planned.


----------



## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Pic someone please, quick


 
I found this while searching for "ponting pratt".


----------



## embree (Dec 8, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Planning's good. Luck comes into it too. England didn't plan Graeme Swann's coming of age any more than Australia planned Shane Warne.


 
true that. Monty's lack of progress after a good start opened the door for Swann and he was far better placed to take advantage than he was ten years ago. The way in which the selectors have kept faith with many players has made a massive contribution. Even when they've been dropped - Bell for example - it was explicitly to go away, get some form and come back in for another shot. Abandoning the attempts to fiddle with Anderson's action and let him bowl how he wants has paid dividends, identifying the exact players they want and working with them through the Lions, Performance Squad etc. Such a change from chucking someone in for a couple of Tests and then abandoning them again.

Strauss and Flower clearly get on famously, the assistant coaches are all top notch - one of the features of the series so far has been the way in which we've outfielded the Australians. Look at how Anderson has turned himself into probably the best seam bowling fielder in the world. Man management is clearly brilliant now - there are a few egos in that dressing room (KP, Swann, Broad to name three) but the team spirit is clearly awesome and they are all supporting each other. I'm not certain that Ponting has the team he wants and he clearly betrays a lack of faith in his players at times - he obviously doesn't want Hauritz and his body language in the field is awful.


----------



## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Thought you were saying warne (another aussie i hate/love) was planned.


 
I know for a fact he wasn't, but Mrs Warne skipped a pill.


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## pennimania (Dec 8, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> I'm not sure about all this hubris.


 
only my second post on this thread - but after 28 years of being addicted to the Ashes I agree with you.

It isn't over till they're on their knees, crying and we have the delectable little urn in our hot sweaty hands.


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

Santino said:


> I found this while searching for "ponting pratt".


 
That's a keeper


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 8, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Nah, fuck him.


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## embree (Dec 8, 2010)

wrt the Australian system, it used to be a point of honour that once it became clear a Baggy Green wasn't in the offing for a Shield cricketer, they'd get a proper job and get out of the way. I read something today implying that that is no longer the case and as a result, with only six first class sides, opportunities for young uns are fewer now. O'Keeffe is rated the best spinner in Australia by some but he can't get a game for New South Wales


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## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

I don't know what hubris is, but I do know that it definitely isn't a problem for us.


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## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

embree said:


> wrt the Australian system, it used to be a point of honour that once it became clear a Baggy Green wasn't in the offing for a Shield cricketer, they'd get a proper job and get out of the way. I read something today implying that that is no longer the case and as a result, with only six first class sides, opportunities for young uns are fewer now. O'Keeffe is rated the best spinner in Australia by some but he can't get a game for New South Wales


 
After the 2006-07 series there was a lot of talk about how the six-team system (and fewer overseas players) meant that their first class cricket was much more competitive than in England. But now it looks like six squads isn't enough of a reserve of players with first class experience.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

embree said:


> wrt the Australian system, it used to be a point of honour that once it became clear a Baggy Green wasn't in the offing for a Shield cricketer, they'd get a proper job and get out of the way. I read something today implying that that is no longer the case and as a result, with only six first class sides, opportunities for young uns are fewer now. O'Keeffe is rated the best spinner in Australia by some but he can't get a game for New South Wales


 
That's a good point. Full-time non-international cricketers are a very recent phenomenon in Aus. It's possible to live on a state contract now. It used to just cover your loss of earnings when you were missing work. But if it's your main living, you're bound to be loathe to give it up.


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

OT: How many first class side are there in NZ?


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## pennimania (Dec 8, 2010)

embree said:


> wrt the Australian system, it used to be a point of honour that once it became clear a Baggy Green wasn't in the offing for a Shield cricketer, they'd get a proper job and get out of the way. I read something today implying that that is no longer the case and as a result, with only six first class sides, opportunities for young uns are fewer now. O'Keeffe is rated the best spinner in Australia by some but he can't get a game for New South Wales


 
But how easy is it for good young players here to get even practice?

as a secondary school teacher I remember often asking the PE guys about cricket, and was always told that it wasn't a goer. They have to wait too long to 'get a go' . kit issues, other schools in the area not interested etc etc etc.

Is it any easier here at all - the only guy I know who's made it through is  someone who's dad was a semi profesional (and coach) for Warwickshire.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

Six or eight, I think. They're mostly not full time pros there, I don't think.


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## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

Stuart Clark was a working estate agent when he wasn't actually holding an end up.


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## embree (Dec 8, 2010)

Santino said:


> After the 2006-07 series there was a lot of talk about how the six-team system (and fewer overseas players) meant that their first class cricket was much more competitive than in England. But now it looks like six squads isn't enough of a reserve of players with first class experience.


 
Both systems clearly have merit - otherwise all those West Indians and Australians in our county system down the years wouldn't have benefited so much. We've eliminated the lackadaisical 'turn up and hope for the best' attitude from the national side and as a result we're reaping the benfits of having a huge pool of talent in our first class system


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

Santino said:


> After the 2006-07 series there was a lot of talk about how the six-team system (and fewer overseas players) meant that their first class cricket was much more competitive than in England. But now it looks like six squads isn't enough of a reserve of players with first class experience.


 
Then again, they used to boast that grade cricket was as good as the English counties. I suspect that is no longer the case.


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## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

pennimania said:


> Is it any easier here at all - the only guy I know who's made it through is  someone who's dad was a semi profesional (and coach) for Warwickshire.


 
Once you're signed to a county I think you get a decent enough salary, although I think a lot also do other work out of season.

eta: Article from 2007 reckons a capped county player makes at least £30k: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...cricket-wage-scale-less-than-first-class.html


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## embree (Dec 8, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> OT: How many first class side are there in NZ?


 
Six - Central Districts, Northern Districts, Otago, Wellington, Auckland, Canterbury


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

embree said:


> Six - Central Districts, Northern Districts, Otago, Wellington, Auckland, Canterbury


 
Ta


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

Santino said:


> Once you're signed to a county I think you get a decent enough salary, although I think a lot also do other work out of season.


 
Most counties employ players all year round now. A capped county pro will be on about 50 grand a year, plus sponsors' cars and other benefits. 

It's very different from a generation ago when a lot of county pros signed on in the winter.

I believe Stephen Harmison is the highest-paid county player now. He's on 150k a year.


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## pennimania (Dec 8, 2010)

Santino said:


> Once you're signed to a county I think you get a decent enough salary, although I think a lot also do other work out of season.



of course I understand that 

but at a London comprehensive (say) the kids all think the way to the stars is football (soccer) and it's pretty hard to get them to think beyond that. I suspect that it's probably easier for an athletic kid to achieve (and  earn money) in cricket ; but you try telling them that!


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## embree (Dec 8, 2010)

pennimania said:


> But how easy is it for good young players here to get even practice?
> 
> as a secondary school teacher I remember often asking the PE guys about cricket, and was always told that it wasn't a goer. They have to wait too long to 'get a go' . kit issues, other schools in the area not interested etc etc etc.
> 
> Is it any easier here at all - the only guy I know who's made it through is  someone who's dad was a semi profesional (and coach) for Warwickshire.



There's been a lot more of an effort to get it out there - the ECB's Chance to Shine programme is excellent and they've effectively given up on the schools given that school sports are nowhere in many areas. Local clubs have much better youth set ups now and that's where kids are directed once they've had the ECB coaches in their schools etc. Given that there are more registered cricketers in Yorkshire than in the whole of Australia, clearly the club system is the way to go.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

A county professional cricketer will earn about the same as a league 2 footballer.


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Most counties employ players all year round now. A capped county pro will be on about 50 grand a year, plus sponsors' cars and other benefits.
> 
> It's very different from a generation ago when a lot of county pros signed on in the winter.


 
Or were *paid* for painting the big stand :d

shh


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## embree (Dec 8, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Most counties employ players all year round now. A capped county pro will be on about 50 grand a year, plus sponsors' cars and other benefits.
> 
> It's very different from a generation ago when a lot of county pros signed on in the winter.
> 
> I believe Stephen Harmison is the highest-paid county player now. He's on 150k a year.


 
It very much depends - summer contracts are still where it's at for young players, then they either find another winter job (sometimes with their county in the office or wherever), play club (or sometimes FC) cricket in Australia, NZ or SA or if they're very promising they'll be off with the Performance Squad somewhere. It's a bit mix and match and many counties are still desperately short of cash and struggle to employ a decent squad all year round


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## pennimania (Dec 8, 2010)

embree said:


> There's been a lot more of an effort to get it out there - the ECB's Chance to Shine programme is excellent and they've effectively given up on the schools given that school sports are nowhere in many areas. Local clubs have much better youth set ups now and that's where kids are directed once they've had the ECB coaches in their schools etc. Given that there are more registered cricketers in Yorkshire than in the whole of Australia, clearly the club system is the way to go.



Hope you're right 

but most of the kids I teach - ok I know I'm in Scotland now - but before - soccer was the beginning and the end.

No cricket star has the bezazz that say Beckham ( just to go for the obvious) has.

I find this very sad - but understand this to be the case.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

There was no way I was ever going to be a top-class sportsman of any kind, but I dreamed of being a cricketer when I was a kid. I loved football too, but my heroes were cricketers.


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## embree (Dec 8, 2010)

pennimania said:


> Hope you're right
> 
> but most of the kids I teach - ok I know I'm in Scotland now - but before - soccer was the beginning and the end.
> 
> ...


 
Well, that's what every other sport in the country is up against unfortunately. As a nation we still do pretty well at a wide range of them though


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## DrRingDing (Dec 8, 2010)

Twenty20 for this kids is the starting point. Don't split the sexes.


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## embree (Dec 8, 2010)

Anyone know if the Victoria game's on the telly then?


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## pennimania (Dec 8, 2010)

embree said:


> Well, that's what every other sport in the country is up against unfortunately. As a nation we still do pretty well at a wide range of them though



I think we do pretty well considering we do NOT get that much encouragement from the govt.

I am going to keep up with this thread although I know I'm pretty much ignorant - just like listening on the radio


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

pennimania said:


> No cricket star has the bezazz that say Beckham ( just to go for the obvious) has.


 
You may be right, and a premiership footballer can earn in a week what a county cricketer earns in a year. But do kids think about money much? I didn't. Until you actually have to start earning it, you don't really appreciate where money comes from, do you?


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

pennimania said:


> I think we do pretty well considering we do NOT get that much encouragement from the govt.
> 
> I am going to keep up with this thread although I know I'm pretty much ignorant - just like listening on the radio


 
This is a really good thread and the one from the previous ashes series is brilliant. Sad as i am, i read through the whole thing recently. Fantastic stuff.


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## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

Let us hope that cricket never attracts the money that premiership football does.


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## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> This is a really good thread and the one from the previous ashes series is brilliant. Sad as i am, i read through the whole thing recently. Fantastic stuff.


 
Do you remember when we thought we might not win and then we did win?!


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

That was the best bit


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Until you actually have to start earning it, you don't really appreciate where money comes from, do you?


 
Fuck me, I sound like my dad.


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## pennimania (Dec 8, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You may be right, and a premiership footballer can earn in a week what a county cricketer earns in a year. But do kids think about money much? I didn't. Until you actually have to start earning it, you don't really appreciate where money comes from, do you?


 
they don't think exactly about the money no, but think how much these famous footballers are always in their faces. You only see the cricketers when the big matches are on - and even then I think it mainly people like you and me who are interested in them.

Apart from Ian Botham and Shredded Wheat, and Alan Lamb and some stock cube stuff, who is ever on an advert?

And Beckhams' ads are always for some sexy product - not cereals that are good for your heart.

i'm not saying that's right - just how it is .


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## pennimania (Dec 8, 2010)

Santino said:


> Do you remember when we thought we might not win and then we did win?!


 
don't you just LOVE that?


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## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

KP does his fair share of promotional work.


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## Santino (Dec 8, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> That was the best bit


 


pennimania said:


> don't you just LOVE that?


 
It was also great when Australia should have won that bit and then they couldn't.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

pennimania said:


> they don't think exactly about the money no, but think how much these famous footballers are always in their faces. You only see the cricketers when the big matches are on - and even then I think it mainly people like you and me who are interested in them.


 
No live cricket free to air any more. If your folks don't have Sky, you won't get into cricket by the means I did – sitting and watching it, sometimes all day in the school holidays, saddo that I was.


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

Santino said:


> It was also great when Australia should have won that bit and then they couldn't.


 
Because of the thing. That was sweet.

getting a bit bored now.


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## pennimania (Dec 8, 2010)

Santino said:


> It was also great when Australia should have won that bit and then they couldn't.


 
The thing about cricket is that it's so very very VERY breathholding.

I can remember draws that had my stomach clenched


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

Yep. It lasts for five days, and then if you haven't got a result by then, you give up and call it a draw, and everyone goes away saying what a great game it was.


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## liquidlunch (Dec 8, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep. It lasts for five days, and then if you haven't got a result by then, you give up and call it a draw, and everyone goes away saying what a great game it was.


 ah yes i remember those feelings well,we had 16 years straight to bask in the glory that our side delivered to us,now i know the utter frustration of watching your team going down the gurgler.My unswerving belief in fact it wont last for long makes me happy though.Australia will return to its powerhouse status a lot sooner than most of the world expects.Enjoy it while you can my traditional enemy(pommy bastards for ashes series only btw)and rest assured we will be back


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> ah yes i remember those feelings well,we had 16 years straight to bask in the glory that our side delivered to us,now i know the utter frustration of watching your team going down the gurgler.My unswerving belief in fact it wont last for long makes me happy though.Australia will return to its powerhouse status a lot sooner than most of the world expects.Enjoy it while you can my traditional enemy(pommy bastards for ashes series only btw)and rest assured we will be back


 
You remember Ab #1? He's back.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 8, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> and rest assured we will be back


 
Still drinking away the pain I see......


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## liquidlunch (Dec 8, 2010)

breaking news;Johnsons back and probably Hilfy as Harris is injured and Doug ran out of puff in Adelaide
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...p-branded-insane/story-fn67x4c9-1225967947171


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

MJ should not have been dropped  in the first place. Pathetic panicky decision that must have went through all the bowlers. Disarray.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 8, 2010)

Bad news for them about Harris, and bad luck for Harris himself. Is he just one of those types whose bodies can't really take fast bowling? 

It's a bit of a shocker that they're going to ditch Dougie straight away. Back to the line-up for the first test then. You never know with Johnson. Slingy bowlers have a smaller margin of error than those that bowl with a high action as just a tiny change in the timing of the ball release sends it off line. But if it all slots into place, he's their most dangerous bowler still.


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## butchersapron (Dec 8, 2010)

Dougie = just not match fit.


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## butchersapron (Dec 9, 2010)

Or, if that's as fit as he's ever going to be, then bye bye

You can't have a bowler 'running out of puff' in the ashes


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## Kaye (Dec 9, 2010)

Santino said:


> Do you remember when we thought we might not win and then we did win?!


 
I was in Brisbane, hammered in the middle of the night, and with my England shirt on. It was amazing.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 9, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Or, if that's as fit as he's ever going to be, then bye bye
> 
> You can't have a bowler 'running out of puff' in the ashes


 
He's not an athlete, is he. I quite like that about him. Neither was Willis. You don't actually have to be an athlete to be a good cricketer, but that said, you are right.


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## embree (Dec 9, 2010)

Johnson reminds me more and more of Harmison - some devastating moments getting rarer and rarer as his mental state collapses. His action means that it must be very, very hard to get it spot on - he's never going to bowl upright so it must be difficult to correct once it's gone. He's not quite as roundarm as Malinga (and how he manages to get the ball so spot on with that action I'll never know) but it's not far off.

If he comes back, great - he could be devastating but my instinct says he won't. Hilfenhaus was only dropped to balance the batting once Bollinger came back so no surprise if he's in. Batting order will surely be Johnson, (spinner), Siddle/Hilfenhaus, Bollinger. Unless they bring Smith in to replace North in which case it'll be Johnson, Siddle, Hilfenhaus, Bollinger. Still a tail which fails to scare anyone and nothing to worry the batsmen either.

The indecision is delicious.


----------



## Santino (Dec 9, 2010)

embree said:


> Johnson reminds me more and more of Harmison - some devastating moments getting rarer and rarer as his mental state collapses. His action means that it must be very, very hard to get it spot on - he's never going to bowl upright so it must be difficult to correct once it's gone. He's not quite as roundarm as Malinga (and how he manages to get the ball so spot on with that action I'll never know) but it's not far off.
> 
> If he comes back, great - he could be devastating but my instinct says he won't. Hilfenhaus was only dropped to balance the batting once Bollinger came back so no surprise if he's in. Batting order will surely be Johnson, (spinner), Siddle/Hilfenhaus, Bollinger. Unless they bring Smith in to replace North in which case it'll be Johnson, Siddle, Hilfenhaus, Bollinger. Still a tail which fails to scare anyone and nothing to worry the batsmen either.
> 
> The indecision is delicious.



They can't play Bollinger if loses his fizz facepalm after 8 or 9 overs.


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## embree (Dec 9, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He's not an athlete, is he. I quite like that about him. Neither was Willis. You don't actually have to be an athlete to be a good cricketer, but that said, you are right.


 
If his knees are as fucked as they seem, he's not for Test cricket. Another limited overs only bowler to join Tait and Lee.


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## embree (Dec 9, 2010)

Santino said:


> They can't play Bollinger if loses his fizz facepalm after 8 or 9 overs.


 
Yes, and he's a proper rabbit too, including him makes a very long tail even longer

I wouldn't know what I'd want in their shoes either. Fantastic.


----------



## Santino (Dec 9, 2010)

The only remotely plausible line-up (assuming Harris is injured) is Johnson, Siddle, The Haus of Hilfen and a spinner; or Smith at no.6 with a fourth seamer.


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## Santino (Dec 9, 2010)

Where are the seasoned journeymen of Australian cricket? Do they have no Sidebottom, no Udal, no Jon Lewis?


----------



## embree (Dec 9, 2010)

Santino said:


> The only remotely plausible line-up (assuming Harris is injured) is Johnson, Siddle, The Haus of Hilfen and a spinner; or Smith at no.6 with a fourth seamer.


 
I'll stick with what I said a while ago about four seamers - it's a losers' formula (unless you're the 1970s/80s West Indies or have a proper all rounder). Assuming it's four seamers and a spinner that is. Basically you're saying you don't trust your four best men to do the job so you're bringing in another who isn't as good as the first four to try and do it. With 90 overs in a day, one of those bowlers is going to be redundant. It stinks of panic and it isn't even remotely attacking.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 9, 2010)

embree said:


> If his knees are as fucked as they seem, he's not for Test cricket. Another limited overs only bowler to join Tait and Lee.


 
I was talking about Bollinger, actually. But the comparison of Harris with Willis is an interesting one. Back in the pre-20/20 days, Willis had no option but to persevere with test cricket with fucked knees. He lasted a few years.


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## embree (Dec 9, 2010)

Santino said:


> Where are the seasoned journeymen of Australian cricket? Do they have no Sidebottom, no Udal, no Jon Lewis?


 
Well there's Tait and Lee but they're not playing Tests any more


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 9, 2010)

Santino said:


> Where are the seasoned journeymen of Australian cricket? Do they have no Sidebottom, no Udal, no Jon Lewis?


 
There's a Pattinson fella, I think...

Oh wait.


----------



## Santino (Dec 9, 2010)

embree said:


> I'll stick with what I said a while ago about four seamers - it's a losers' formula (unless you're the 1970s/80s West Indies or have a proper all rounder). Assuming it's four seamers and a spinner that is. Basically you're saying you don't trust your four best men to do the job so you're bringing in another who isn't as good as the first four to try and do it. With 90 overs in a day, one of those bowlers is going to be redundant. It stinks of panic and it isn't even remotely attacking.



Harmison, Hoggard, Flintoff, Jones and Giles worked for a while, didn't it?


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## embree (Dec 9, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I was talking about Bollinger, actually. But the comparison of Harris with Willis is an interesting one. Back in the pre-20/20 days, Willis had no option but to persevere with test cricket with fucked knees. He lasted a few years.


 
oops, sorry. All these ineffectual seamers kind of merge into one


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## embree (Dec 9, 2010)

Santino said:


> Harmison, Hoggard, Flintoff, Jones and Giles worked for a while, didn't it?


 
Flintoff was in as an all rounder though


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 9, 2010)

Santino said:


> Harmison, Hoggard, Flintoff, Jones and Giles worked for a while, didn't it?


 
Yep, I was just thinking that. I grew up with the great WI teams and back then it seemed there was nothing better than a four-man pace attack. You've seen off the new ball attack of Marshall and Holding? Phew. Here come Croft and Garner. (perm your favourites from the list and delete as appropriate - Roberts, Clarke, etc.)

Joel Garner as _second change_? Scary stuff. Courtney Walsh didn't get anywhere near the new ball for years. 

If they don't fancy Hauritz, I say they should keep North and go with an all-seam attack. Especially at Perth.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 9, 2010)

embree said:


> Flintoff was in as an all rounder though


 
Yeah, but if he hadn't been, I'd have dumped Giles and gone with an extra batter.


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## embree (Dec 9, 2010)

By all means go with an all seam attack as long as you're not shoving a specialist spinner in there too. My point is that five specialist bowlers doesn't work - you end up with a massive tail and it's bet hedging of the worst kind. Hoping someone comes up with the goods because you're not confident in any of them. Six batsmen, wicketkeeper, four bowlers. Unless you've got a proper all rounder


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 9, 2010)

Fair enough. I agree with your last point. A long tail only encourages the opposition.


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## embree (Dec 9, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah, but if he hadn't been, I'd have dumped Giles and gone with an extra batter.


 
Giles is actually the role model for how Australia need to approach their spinner situation. Make do with what you have and bring the best out in them. Hauritz is a perfectly capable cricketer, knows how to hold a bat, can do a little with the ball, gives you options. They're falling into the trap we did with Ian Botham - trying to replace an all time great when such a replacement doesn't exist. Thankfully we're not trying to do the same with Flintoff's replacement and just picking a balanced side. 15-20 years ago we ended up with Pringle, Ealham et al, Australia are going to end up with the same unless they get out of this mindset that they have to go through umpteen spinners to find the new Warne. It's not happening, he doesn't exist.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 9, 2010)

Yep. I agree. Giles did maximise himself. He'd never have been taken apart like Doherty was. He took pride in the fact that he fielded at gully. He was sort of the spare part of the team, but yes, he had a role.

His weakness – his essentially defensive nature as a bowler – would have been more exposed in a four-man attack, though.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 9, 2010)

embree said:


> Giles is actually the role model for how Australia need to approach their spinner situation. Make do with what you have and bring the best out in them. Hauritz is a perfectly capable cricketer, knows how to hold a bat, can do a little with the ball, gives you options. They're falling into the trap we did with Ian Botham - trying to replace an all time great when such a replacement doesn't exist. Thankfully we're not trying to do the same with Flintoff's replacement and just picking a balanced side. 15-20 years ago we ended up with Pringle, Ealham et al, Australia are going to end up with the same unless they get out of this mindset that they have to go through umpteen spinners to find the new Warne. It's not happening, he doesn't exist.


 "an all time great" your words young man.


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## Santino (Dec 9, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> There's a Pattinson fella, I think...
> 
> Oh wait.


 
He'd be permitted to play for them if he hadn't already played for us.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 9, 2010)

Santino said:


> Where are the seasoned journeymen of Australian cricket? Do they have no Sidebottom, no Udal, no Jon Lewis?


 
Cruel 

I'm sure they have some Hollioake equivalents, or alternatively they could find some players who are great at Shield level but choke in the pressure.. oh yes, they are bringing in Hughes.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 9, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> ah yes i remember those feelings well,we had 16 years straight to bask in the glory that our side delivered to us,now i know the utter frustration of watching your team going down the gurgler.My unswerving belief in fact it wont last for long makes me happy though.Australia will return to its powerhouse status a lot sooner than most of the world expects.Enjoy it while you can my traditional enemy(pommy bastards for ashes series only btw)and rest assured we will be back


 
We'll see the mettle of the Aussie fans. Can they stay supporting their team through 15 crap years? Seems like the stadiums empty out after 2 crap days.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 9, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Cruel
> 
> I'm sure they have some Hollioake equivalents, or alternatively they could find some players who are great at Shield level but choke in the pressure.. oh yes, they are bringing in Hughes.


 
Actually Hughes has been shit at domestic level so far this year.


----------



## Santino (Dec 9, 2010)

Harris has been ruled fit for the third Test.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 9, 2010)

Yahoo/eurosport sez Harris may yet play in third test
e2a; beaten to it, yet again!


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 9, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> ah yes i remember those feelings .Enjoy it while you can my traditional enemy(pommy bastards for ashes series only btw)and rest assured we will be back


OK if we rip it out of you while we can, then? LOSERRR!


----------



## Idaho (Dec 9, 2010)

That's good news about Harris. He's been the best of their bowlers, although I think Siddle may still come back into it. I think it's a mistake to drop Bollinger so soon too. Siddle, Harris, Hauritz, Bollinger and Hilfenhaus should be their picks.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 9, 2010)

Idaho said:


> That's good news about Harris. He's been the best of their bowlers, although I think Siddle may still come back into it. I think it's a mistake to drop Bollinger so soon too. Siddle, Harris, Hauritz, Bollinger and Hilfenhaus should be their picks.


 
I just can't see them going this way.  Firstly I doubt they'll pick 5 bowlers especially when only one of them can sort of bat.

Secondly both Hilfenhaus and Bollinger bowl around 80mph which is hardly a great threat in aussie conditions.  Can you really see Austrlia playing at Perth with two medium pace trundlers, a containing spinner and a couple of try hard medium-quicks? That just seems like a slow death to me.

Surely Johnson has to come back? If for no other reason then they need a spark, something different.  Ok he may be all over the place, then again on his home ground he might put in the sort of performance that justifies his position as number 7 in the ICC rankings.

For me I think they should replace Katich with Hughes, perhaps North will be given one last chance (his home ground isnt it?) and the bowlers will be Harris, Johnson, Hilfenhaus and either Hauritz or this Smith chap.

Also, not that I neccesairly agree but I think Bresnan will play England.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 9, 2010)

Bollinger gets it up to 86-87 usually. He was down at 79-80 in the last test because, as Ponting put it, he 'hit the wall'.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 9, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Bollinger gets it up to 86-87 usually. He was down at 79-80 in the last test because, as Ponting put it, he 'hit the wall'.



I really don't see how attacking Dravid is going to help?

So what happens in Perth when they've been out in the field for a while and Ponting chucks him the ball and asks him to bowl 8 overs into the 'doctor'?  I suspect he may be carrying 'the wall' in his kit bag.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 9, 2010)

Well yes, Hilfenhaus into the wind and Johnson and Harris downwind would seem the way to go. However you perm it, it doesn't look too good though.

ETA: I think Bresnan will play too, and will have to bowl into the wind. I don't agree with it, but hopefully it won't matter too much – I fancy Finn to do well at Perth.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 9, 2010)

Yes my choice would rely quite heavily on Johnson not bowling utter filth.  

I do think a lot of this is based upon intangibles though, England have the momentum and all the confidence but if you think about it we've got problems of our own.  We will more than likely opt for 3 seamers, two of which will be very inexperienced at this level and our one true strike bowler is circumnavigating the globe, hardly ideal.  Of course we have Swann, thank fuck we have Swann.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 9, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Yes my choice would rely quite heavily on Johnson not bowling utter filth.
> 
> I do think a lot of this is based upon intangibles though, England have the momentum and all the confidence but if you think about it we've got problems of our own.  We will more than likely opt for 3 seamers, two of which will be very inexperienced at this level and our one true strike bowler is circumnavigating the globe, hardly ideal.  Of course we have Swann, thank fuck we have Swann.


 
I don't think that the inexperience matters too much if they are well supported and guided by the team around them. Finn has had a few matches now. He knows what he's about. 

I think Anderson can be forgiven for travelling to see his child born!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 9, 2010)

I don't. I agree with Bob Willis. We could've used his anger at being forced to stay in aus productively.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 9, 2010)

Bob Willis can be a miserable git sometimes.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 9, 2010)

At all times.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 9, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I don't. I agree with Bob Willis. We could've used his anger at being forced to stay in aus productively.


 
Productively pissed off with the whole set up, souring what is otherwise a positive, happy and upbeat team? Yeah thanks Bob you sour-faced twat


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 9, 2010)

Yeah, if anything Willis has mellowed.

Whilst I understand wanting to be there at the birth I don't think its a great idea.  How long will he be in England for 48 hours?  I don't think babies fit their schdules around test matches, so he may not even be there when it happens anyway.  
Hopefully England will bat first at Perth because he is going to need all the rest time he can get with both those flights.


----------



## g force (Dec 9, 2010)

Yeah one match vs seeing your child born. It's not a contest and Willis should realise that but of course doesn't. He misses one match and can be back the next one, no big deal really.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 9, 2010)

g force said:


> Yeah one match vs seeing your child born. It's not a contest and Willis should realise that but of course doesn't. He misses one match and can be back the next one, no big deal really.


 
He's not missing a match, he'll be back out in time.  Anyway its his second child, I'd fucking miss my own birth to play in the ashes, or something.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 9, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Hopefully England will bat first at Perth because he is going to need all the rest time he can get with both those flights.


 
First class flights, probably space to exercise, unwind, etc. It's not as if he's going to be stuck in economy and fretting about how to get to the hotel when he arrives.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 9, 2010)

Idaho said:


> First class flights, probably space to exercise, unwind, etc. It's not as if he's going to be stuck in economy and fretting about how to get to the hotel when he arrives.


 
Personally I don't care whether he attempts to circumnavigate the globe in a go-kart inbetween test matches as long as he is fit and ready to go come the start of the match.  If he has a shit match fingers will be pointed.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 9, 2010)

Yeah I wouldn't want him to have shit match fingers.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 9, 2010)




----------



## Teaboy (Dec 10, 2010)

Aussie squad has been announced.  Out go Doherty, Bollinger, North and of course Katich.  In come Phil Hughes, Hilfenhaus, Johnson, Steve Smith and as ever a complete left field pick in some guy rather excellently called Beer.  Apparently Michael Beer is a left arm spinner who has taken 16 1st class wickets at just below 40, England must be shitting it.

However with no extra batsman it looks like Steve Smith will certainly play and bat at 7 with Haddin pushed up to 6.  The only question is whether they will go with 2 spinners or 4 seamers and 1 spinner.

Its certainly a positive move but there are a loads of unknowns.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 10, 2010)

Good to see Bunny's back in the Aussie attack 

I'm now slightly nervous though, couldn't they have just stuck with their shit team instead of blooding youngsters etc


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 10, 2010)

I think it very unlikely that Beer will play unless the Perth pitch looks like an absolute bunson.  So the only real new face is Steve Smith (although we saw him in the summer) we know all about the rest of them.


----------



## embree (Dec 10, 2010)

longest tail in Test cricket just got longer then. Good stuff


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 10, 2010)

Cricinfo reports that Beer only started playing 1st class cricket in October and has only played three 1st class matches at the WACA.  Most recently against NSW he returned figures of 3-139, whereas his opposite number, Nathan Hauritz, took 7-104.

I know he's unlikely to play, but what is going on with the aussie selectors?  Surely he can't have been picked because he is a left armer again?  What has Hauritz done to upset Ponting?


----------



## Idaho (Dec 10, 2010)

Smith is a leggy? I like leggies.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 10, 2010)

IIRC, Smith was OK, but nothing special in his tests in England. Christ, their talent cupboard's bare!


----------



## mattie (Dec 10, 2010)

I wonder if Smith will assume Bell's 'Sherminator' mantle.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

Smith is a batting all-rounder, so their tail will be quite short, in fact, with Johnson and Harris at 8-9.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 10, 2010)

Ok, so Smith has an impressive 1st class batting average of 43.77 but a bowling average of only 44.8.  His economy rate is not very clever either at a shade below 4 but you can forgive a leg spinner that.

From those stats he's more of a batsman then a bowler. So is he being picked as a bowler they have genuine belief in, or is it because his inclusion enables the aussies to play 4 seamers?


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 10, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Smith is a batting all-rounder, so their tail will be quite short, in fact, with Johnson and Harris at 8-9.


 
I've said this earlier on this thread but Mitchell Johnson's batting is overated.  If you take out the two series against SA when generally weird things happened (Hughes and North got runs, Mcgain was allowed to play etc etc), he has only averaged 11 I think.  He's a late order slogger who _may_ come off from time to time.

Can't comment on Harris' batting, didnt see much of him at Adelaide.


----------



## Santino (Dec 10, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Can't comment on Harris' batting, didnt see much of him at Adelaide.


 
No one did.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

Johnson not allowed to play in the Shield match at Perth starting today. That's nuts.

Not fair to take out a player's top scores and look at his average! Especially as you're taking out matches against a good team.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 10, 2010)

Santino said:


> No one did.


 
Indeed.

One golden duck could be considered unfortunate, but two must be considered carelessness........


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 10, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Johnson not allowed to play in the Shield match at Perth starting today. That's nuts.


 
So let me get this straight.  Johnson was dropped because he was out of form, he then spent hours in the field as 12th man as Pieterson smacked the ball to all corners and now he's not allowed to play a Shield match.

Am I missing something?  How has fielding as 12th man sorted his bowling rytham out?

ETA: No doubt he is 'looking good in the nets'.

Fuck me, Australia really are the new England.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 10, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Indeed.
> 
> One golden duck could be considered unfortunate, but two must be considered carelessness........


 
He sold his match bat on ebay afterward. Condition: Brand new.


----------



## Santino (Dec 10, 2010)

Simon Hughes says their whole cricket infrastructure is basically fucked. The Ashes could well be a ritualistic whitewash for the next 10 or 20 years.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

Santino said:


> Simon Hughes says their whole cricket infrastructure is basically fucked.


 
How has that happened? They were supposed to be the model to be copied just a few years ago. Each match in the Shield was competitive and mattered in a way the grind of County Cricket didn't. Talented amateurs were not lost to the game as they could continue to develop in highly competitive grade cricket... What's changed?


----------



## Santino (Dec 10, 2010)

Article here: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cr...Test-to-England-highlights-deeper-issues.html

Summary: school sport in decline, fewer local facilities, Aussie rules football takes all the promising athletes, no talent in club cricket.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

So the sport that was devised for cricketers to play on cricket grounds in the off-season now has a 10-month season so that cricketers cannot play it. Oops.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 10, 2010)

This is why 20-20 has to be done right. It's cricket's last hope. Otherwise it'll become a fringe sport like lacrosse or curling.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

There's still a massive appetite for it, though. The grounds have been packed so far. If the game is in decline in Australia, there still ought to be ways to turn that round.

I don't agree with you about 2020. Fast bowlers are already opting out of the longer game to concentrate on it. I don't see how that is anything other than a negative development. If it is to thrive, test cricket needs exciting bowlers above all else.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 10, 2010)

2020 isn't cricket and nothing about it can possibly be good for cricket.

I don't know what the solution is, but I think the game needs more _stories_.  Take me as a case study: I love test cricket, I love the game and yet I have hardly any interest in county cricket.  Why?  Because there's no narrative there for me to sink my teeth into.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

I used to follow county cricket quite closely. I don't any more, and looking in on it, it seems much more fragmented than it was – time was that the overseas pro would stay with the same county for years and years. Now they fly in for the odd week or month. And the test players effectively never play for their counties any more. County cricket is diminished by those developments, I think. 

That said, I don't doubt that there is a narrative there if you look for it. You just need to look.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2010)

Depends who you support. Plenty of narrative for durham, for notts, for somerset, for yorkshire...


----------



## kabbes (Dec 10, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> That said, I don't doubt that there is a narrative there if you look for it. You just need to look.


 
Possibly -- but I think if cricket wants to flourish then they need to find a way of getting _it _to look for _me_.  And when I say "me", I really mean a target market like me -- people who like cricket in general and test cricket in particular but don't pay much attention to the county game.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 10, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Depends who you support. Plenty of narrative for durham, for notts, for somerset, for yorkshire...


 
Surrey.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2010)

Ha Ha then


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

Yes. When I was a kid, I followed Gloucs, Glamorgan and sometimes Somerset (yes, I effectively supported _three_ teams!). There's precious little narrative at Gloucs now. Certain teams stuck in the second divisions – I'd add Northants and Derby to that, even possibly Middlesex and Leicester – seem to be slowly withering.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 10, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> So let me get this straight.  Johnson was dropped because he was out of form, he then spent hours in the field as 12th man as Pieterson smacked the ball to all corners and now he's not allowed to play a Shield match.
> 
> Am I missing something?  How has fielding as 12th man sorted his bowling rytham out?
> 
> ...


 
He's already at the WACA with Troy Cooley, attempting to sort his dodgy action out. I can see the logic.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yes. When I was a kid, I followed Gloucs, Glamorgan and sometimes Somerset (yes, I effectively supported _three_ teams!). There's precious little narrative at Gloucs now. Certain teams stuck in the second divisions – I'd add Northants and Derby to that, even possibly Middlesex and Leicester – seem to be slowly withering.


 
There's narrative aplenty at gloucs - they're fucked


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Possibly -- but I think if cricket wants to flourish then they need to find a way of getting _it _to look for _me_.  And when I say "me", I really mean a target market like me -- people who like cricket in general and test cricket in particular but don't pay much attention to the county game.


 
All the 'quality' newspapers used to carry full scorecards and reports from county cricket. I don't think any of them do now.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yes. When I was a kid, I followed Gloucs, Glamorgan and sometimes Somerset (yes, I effectively supported _three_ teams!). There's precious little narrative at Gloucs now. Certain teams stuck in the second divisions – I'd add Northants and Derby to that, even possibly Middlesex and Leicester – seem to be slowly withering.


 
Hang on, you supported three teams that hate each other!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

Yep. And I was entirely oblivious to that fact.  

I generally went on closeness to me plus who was their overseas player. I had a soft spot for Derby too because Michael Holding played for them. 

Fickle, me.


----------



## strung out (Dec 10, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> There's narrative aplenty at gloucs - they're fucked


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2010)

strung out said:


>


 Yes, your brother gave me an earful for pointing this out last night


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 10, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> He's already at the WACA with Troy Cooley, attempting to sort his dodgy action out. I can see the logic.


 
I understand the logic of him being picked, but shouldnt he have been in the nets with Troy Cooley a little earlier, perhaps when he wasnt picked for the last game?


----------



## mattie (Dec 10, 2010)

Taunton a bit too much of a trek, sadly they've really reined in the Bath cricket festival in recent years - this was always a good way of opening up the county game to a broader audience, so I'd suggest they've shot themselves in the foot a touch.  They had rank luck with weather for a few years, which might have influenced their decision.

Gloucestershire's County Ground not that far.  Good for a giggle, watching Solanki and Hick slap 'em about a bit in a few Twenty20s.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2010)

mattie said:


> Taunton a bit too much of a trek, sadly they've really reined in the Bath cricket festival in recent years - this was always a good way of opening up the county game to a broader audience, so I'd suggest they've shot themselves in the foot a touch.  They had rank luck with weather for a few years, which might have influenced their decision.
> 
> Gloucestershire's County Ground not that far.  Good for a giggle, watching Solanki and Hick slap 'em about a bit in a few Twenty20s.



Somerset one of the few to turn a profit last year...i'd like a 5 day bath festival myself, always enjoyed it up there.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 10, 2010)

I can't believe they've picked Beer after just _five_ first-class matches


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 10, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> I can't believe they've picked Beer after just _five_ first-class matches


 
Yup and he's hardly been pulling up trees in those matches.  Honestly is there a slow bowler in oz who hasnt been picked yet?  Be wary anyone planning on going on holiday to Australia you may well end up with a baggy green.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 10, 2010)

Warne was really pushing for beer. I know zilch about him beyond that.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

tbf Warne was calling for Beer. He must have something.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 10, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> tbf Warne was calling for Beer. He must have something.


 
He probably called for some chicken in a basket to go with it, but the journos didn't hear that bit.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 10, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Warne was really pushing for beer. I know zilch about him beyond that.


 
This seems to be the reason he's been selected, because Warne said they should.  

Forget his very average stats, forget the fact he was playing grade cricket up until a couple of months ago, forget the fact he has just been comprehensivly out-bowled by Hauritz, no get him in the squad because Warne likes the look of him.

There has got to be a more coherent selection policy then this?  Its like the final test of the last ashes when loads of people were calling for Ramprakash but the English selectors calmly stuck with their plan and selected the the person who statistically most deserved the opportunity, Jonathan Trott, that seemed to work ok.


----------



## embree (Dec 10, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> I've said this earlier on this thread but Mitchell Johnson's batting is overated.  If you take out the two series against SA when generally weird things happened (Hughes and North got runs, Mcgain was allowed to play etc etc), he has only averaged 11 I think.  He's a late order slogger who _may_ come off from time to time.
> 
> Can't comment on Harris' batting, didnt see much of him at Adelaide.


 
his 15 ball duck at Brisbane was instructive. He clearly hated being out there. Conclusion: if his head isn't right then his batting goes to shit as well


----------



## embree (Dec 10, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> This seems to be the reason he's been selected, because Warne said they should.
> 
> Forget his very average stats, forget the fact he was playing grade cricket up until a couple of months ago, forget the fact he has just been comprehensivly out-bowled by Hauritz, no get him in the squad because Warne likes the look of him.
> 
> There has got to be a more coherent selection policy then this?  Its like the final test of the last ashes when loads of people were calling for Ramprakash but the English selectors calmly stuck with their plan and selected the the person who statistically most deserved the opportunity, Jonathan Trott, that seemed to work ok.


 
exactly. Just because Warne thinks he's any good doesn't mean he is. I mean, Botham's never made much sense either

What's this 'narrative' bollocks? There's one at every county side, ongoing every season. Just because you're not interested doesn't mean it isn't there


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

It's a depressing narrative, though. Let's take Northants as an example. Last season we were shit, so we're going to spend what little money we've got on Kolpak players because half a dozen Kolpakers are better value than one star overseas player and five local youngsters. 

Then they have a shit year anyway.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 10, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> Yup and he's hardly been pulling up trees in those matches.  Honestly is there a slow bowler in oz who hasnt been picked yet?  Be wary anyone planning on going on holiday to Australia you may well end up with a baggy green.


taking that to its' logical conclusion, the aussies secret weapon for the fourth test


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 10, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Warne was really pushing for beer. I know zilch about him beyond that.


warne has a habit of pushing for/boostering club/county/etc team-mates. did it with hampshire's wickie when he was done there, loudly recommending him for England honours


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 10, 2010)

Teaboy said:


> I've said this earlier on this thread but Mitchell Johnson's batting is overated.  If you take out the two series against SA when generally weird things happened (Hughes and North got runs, Mcgain was allowed to play etc etc), he has only averaged 11 I think.  He's a late order slogger who _may_ come off from time to time.
> 
> Can't comment on Harris' batting, didnt see much of him at Adelaide.


I am so glad the aussies selected him, cos the england batsmen AND bowlers have thoroughly got his number. They'll break him here


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 10, 2010)

I wouldn't bet against Johnson getting it right at Perth.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 10, 2010)

Johnson is deadly when he gets it right. Very much a Harmison type as sometime said.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 10, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Very much a Harmison type as sometime said.


but we all know what happened with Harmy in the last Ashes series down under....


----------



## Santino (Dec 11, 2010)

The three back-up fast bowlers are vying for Broad's place in the game against Victoria. Usefully, all 6 wickets in the second innings have been taken by Collingwood (3), Panesar (2), and... erm, Strauss (1).


----------



## Idaho (Dec 11, 2010)

Tremlett was very economical at least.


----------



## mattie (Dec 11, 2010)

Strauss.  Is there nothing the man can't do.


----------



## Santino (Dec 11, 2010)

mattie said:


> Strauss.  Is there nothing the man can't do.


 
His other first class wickets include Kevin Pietersen and Stephen Fleming.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 11, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Tremlett was very economical at least.


 
Yes very. Showed he can hold his line and length.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 12, 2010)

good to see strauss taking a wicket with his "slow left arm chinaman"!


----------



## Idaho (Dec 12, 2010)

Not really a great result, but good to see Prior getting runs. When have we ever had a top order in such good nick? Of course we'll get tumbled for 90 now I've said that.


----------



## Santino (Dec 12, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Not really a great result, but good to see Prior getting runs. When have we ever had a top order in such good nick? Of course we'll get tumbled for 90 now I've said that.



Won't matter if we do, they'll just dig in for 500-2 in the second innings lol.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 12, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> All the 'quality' newspapers used to carry full scorecards and reports from county cricket. I don't think any of them do now.


Independent shows scorecards, but full reports have been changed to a condensed single 'roundup'-style report


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 12, 2010)

Santino said:


> The three back-up fast bowlers are vying for Broad's place in the game against Victoria. Usefully, all 6 wickets in the second innings have been taken by Collingwood (3), Panesar (2), and... erm, Strauss (1).


tbf, the wicket gave nowt for seamers


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 12, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I wouldn't bet against Johnson getting it right at Perth.


You have a point, but I think the confidence factor given to our order by the knowledge that they've duffed him in the last four tests they played him would be huge


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 12, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> You have a point, but I think the confidence factor given to our order by the knowledge that they've duffed him in the last four tests they played him would be huge


 Yes but he is a confidence player in as much if he gets an early breakthrough in his spell,it could set him up for a great comeback.If his tail is up he bowls well


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 12, 2010)

do urban cricket watchers agree with Gilly?


http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...ed-us-says-gilly/story-e6frecj3-1225969821218


----------



## Idaho (Dec 12, 2010)

He's not really saying much other than England are well prepared and Australia are not.

It's not copying Australia of 2006 to be well prepared because Australia were well prepared. It's just being well prepared!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 12, 2010)

Idaho said:


> He's not really saying much other than England are well prepared and Australia are not.
> 
> It's not copying Australia of 2006 to be well prepared because Australia were well prepared. It's just being well prepared!


 
Ofcourse, the aussies being aussies have to take full credit for it all don't they?


----------



## paulhackett (Dec 12, 2010)

Idaho said:


> He's not really saying much other than England are well prepared and Australia are not.
> 
> It's not copying Australia of 2006 to be well prepared because Australia were well prepared. It's just being well prepared!



good point

shane warne didn't agree with it



> "It was a waste of time. The boot camp was a different way to reinforce the same things. My way would have been to lock us all up in a pub."


----------



## embree (Dec 12, 2010)

Idaho said:


> He's not really saying much other than England are well prepared and Australia are not.
> 
> It's not copying Australia of 2006 to be well prepared because Australia were well prepared. It's just being well prepared!


 
absolutely

I think Australia, team, media and supporters alike, are guilty of not paying attention to what England have been doing over the last 18 months or so. The underestimation of the side's capabilities has been extraordinary


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 12, 2010)

I seem to rememebr Ponting predicting they would thrash us 5-0, he was serious to. Gotta love predictions.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 12, 2010)

Warnie has been concentrating on his cock again it seems with Liz Hurley being the happy recipient.Another fine mess its gotten him into
Ponting and Hilditch may be getting the arse anyway for taking their eyes off the ball,failing to get the boys in as good of condition as the old enemy.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 12, 2010)

That woman has bad taste.


----------



## strung out (Dec 12, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I seem to rememebr Ponting predicting they would thrash us 5-0, he was serious to. Gotta love predictions.


 
think that was mcgrath. not good form for captains to predict pastings!


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 13, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> That woman has bad taste.


 your dead right,Hugh Grant is such a model citizen,at least Shane doesn't have to pay for getting his knob sucked


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 14, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> Yes but he is a confidence player in as much if he gets an early breakthrough in his spell,it could set him up for a great comeback.If his tail is up he bowls well


when did he last have a great spell for australia, out of curiosity?


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 14, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> Ponting and Hilditch may be getting the arse anyway for taking their eyes off the ball,failing to get the boys in as good of condition as the old enemy.


does that mean they may be in line for the sack?


----------



## Dan U (Dec 14, 2010)

Anyone read that Nathan Hauritz had a jumble sale of his cricket memorabilia? Apparently he is no longer an international cricketer

Eta - linky http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op/sZwv9BQpERsfe3RtcOrYA_w/view.m?id=15&gid=sport/2010/dec/13/the-ashes-2010-nathan-hauritz-michael-beer&cat=cricket


----------



## mattie (Dec 14, 2010)

Dan U said:


> Anyone read that Nathan Hauritz had a jumble sale of his cricket memorabilia? Apparently he is no longer an international cricketer
> 
> Eta - linky http://m.guardian.co.uk/ms/p/gnm/op...-2010-nathan-hauritz-michael-beer&cat=cricket


 
That's a pretty disgraceful set of affairs.

Article in the Guardian reckons the powers-that-be in Oz have indulged in a bit of character assassination, whatever the truth of it it's certainly been pretty unprofessional.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/dec/13/the-ashes-2010-nathan-hauritz-michael-beer

Eta: apols, link to same article as you!


----------



## Dan U (Dec 14, 2010)

I think your link actually worked though! 

And yeah, it is pretty shoddy


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 14, 2010)

I've got a bad feeling about Johnson.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 14, 2010)

What does that mean?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 14, 2010)

It means i've got a feeling that he's going to something pretty good if picked and this i think this is bad.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 14, 2010)

Well he does get wickets from time to time. And often a load at once. It depends on whether the batsmen give him a target to bowl at, whether the English batsmen get in, and where the luck is.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 15, 2010)

Idaho said:


> That's good news about Harris. He's been the best of their bowlers, although I think Siddle may still come back into it. I think it's a mistake to drop Bollinger so soon too. Siddle, Harris, Hauritz, Bollinger and Hilfenhaus should be their picks.


 
I wasn't too far off. Looking like Siddle, Harris, Johnson, Hilfenhaus and Smith.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 15, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Well he does get wickets from time to time. And often a load at once. It depends on whether the batsmen give him a target to bowl at, whether the English batsmen get in, and where the luck is.


and whether he and his coaches have managed (using only the nets, and without a first-class game since the Gabba) to repair what looked like a damaged game and a damaged  action


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 15, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I've got a bad feeling about Johnson.


courage!!!


----------



## Dan U (Dec 15, 2010)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2010/dec/15/chris-tremlett-england-third-test

Tremlett then


----------



## Idaho (Dec 15, 2010)

If Finn and Tremlett get their lines right and the wicket is as quick as they are suggesting, then it'll be interesting stuff.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 15, 2010)

They sure he's 6 ft 7? He's got tiny hands.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 15, 2010)

I still think it shoulda been bresnan. more in yer face, more unpredictable


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 15, 2010)

Bresnan's bowling is absolutely predictable. Glad they've gone for Tremlett – it's the positive option, imo.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 15, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> I still think it shoulda been bresnan. more in yer face, more unpredictable


 
Bresnan is a limited overs trundler. He's not test standard imo.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 15, 2010)

Jack the psychic Monkey has just predicted that England will win the third Test, therby ensuring England retain the Ashes. (He's already predicted the draw in the first test and the England win in the second test.)

The Aussies are on the run. Some are even suggesting Shane Warne should be drafted back in to bolster the Aussie attack  It's that desperate!


----------



## mattie (Dec 15, 2010)

Sky sports subscription on the missus' iPhone so I can watch it in bed.  The only problem with watching it in bed is the increased probability of falling asleep before a ball is bowled.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 15, 2010)

mattie said:


> Sky sports subscription on the missus' iPhone so I can watch it in bed.  The only problem with watching it in bed is the increased probability of falling asleep before a ball is bowled.


 
yeah that did happen to me a few times in the first test....woke up with the laptop on my bed at 7am, completely run out of batteries and England having put on 200 runs/taken 5 wickets!

Just have a generous espresso before you go to bed


----------



## strung out (Dec 15, 2010)

glad tremlett's in. the name bresnan fills me with dread when i hear it in relation to the england test side.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 15, 2010)

THERES TROUBLE AT MILL.We might be well and truly fucked before the game starts.Selectors are looking at dropping Siddle to make way for a young spinner called Beer.Playing in front of his home crowd may be exciting but its a move we didnt need.The selectors have already included leggy Smith to bowl with Johnson and Hilfy .Watson can bowl a few as well.I would bowl Siddle before Beer but its an evolving game innit.
After this series we need to sack Ponting,Katich,Hussey and maybe Clarke.Bring in Cameron White to captain the side,Kawaja and Marsh to fill in the batting vacancies and let them roll till the next ashes
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...-put-on-outer/comments-fn67x4c9-1225971172761


----------



## mattie (Dec 15, 2010)

Tying myself in knots here - Perth a lot further west than Adelaide and Brisbane, so that start time 'later' (closer to UK time) - does it kick off at 1:30am or 2:30am?


----------



## embree (Dec 15, 2010)

strung out said:


> glad tremlett's in. the name bresnan fills me with dread when i hear it in relation to the england test side.


 
one day trundler touted as the 'safe' option when he puts me in mind of Ealham and the rest of the bits and pieces crew. The only arguments I've seen in his favour involve his batting which is daft, he won't make the difference between winning and losing with that. So glad they've gone for Tremlett


----------



## embree (Dec 15, 2010)

mattie said:


> Tying myself in knots here - Perth a lot further west than Adelaide and Brisbane, so that start time 'later' (closer to UK time) - does it kick off at 1:30am or 2:30am?


 
2:30am


----------



## Santino (Dec 15, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They sure he's 6 ft 7? He's got tiny hands.



That's actually a basketball.


----------



## mattie (Dec 15, 2010)

embree said:


> 2:30am


 
Dammit.  Might be worth getting up early instead.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 16, 2010)

Aye, I'm thinking of doing it that way round too. Will miss going to sleep to TMS tho


----------



## strung out (Dec 16, 2010)

will prob stay up for a little bit tonight, then try and get up early for the other four days play. maybe.

actually, i'm going out tomorrow night, so that ain't gonna happen.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 16, 2010)

predictions, anyone? (for this game, that is)


----------



## strung out (Dec 16, 2010)

win by an innings and 300 runs


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 16, 2010)

it's a pain in the arse that telly coverage doesn't start til 2. fucking colonies...


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

England win the toss and bowl - Ponting says he would have done the same


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

hahaha what a start

or not, booo.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

bowled him! 

PHILLIP HUGHES, LOL


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2010)

Get in!


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

Dreadful shot, worst technique of any opener in test cricket


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

How many Australian Test careers are going to be ruined by the end of this series?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

pontings gone!!!!!!!! was looking dangerous to!


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

Piss off, you're OUT!


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

Australia have played some dreadful shots this morning


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2010)

Great catch, bye bye Ricky


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

The tail's in sight


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 16, 2010)

lol

Any decent streams out there?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 16, 2010)

17 for 3 great catch
uh oh the english are looking good


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

AKA pseudonym said:


> 17 for 3 great catch
> uh oh the english are looking good


 
for 3?


----------



## strung out (Dec 16, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> lol
> 
> Any decent streams out there?


 
crictime is always very very reliable


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 16, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> lol
> 
> Any decent streams out there?


lol.. im on r5 live...


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 16, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> for 3?


corrected 2.... hit wrong button i swear lol


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

28-3


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2010)

Why'd he even play at that?


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 16, 2010)

eccelente


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 16, 2010)

and its 3 lol


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 16, 2010)

i should sick around... 34-4...............


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

No conviction from Australia at all, heaps of dire shots. Rubbish


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

embree said:


> No conviction from Australia at all, heaps of dire shots. Rubbish


 
Who cares.  Guess there wont be any aussies turning up for day 2 though...


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

This is why Tremlett was picked, Bresnan wouldn;t have done this


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

Forgot for a moment that if we win this test we've already retained the ashes!


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

We're not letting them get away here either, still bowling well and drying the runs up


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

thats out!


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

You. Are. OUT!

Fuck off Twatto


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

bye bye twatson!


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

The tail appears on the horizon


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2010)

Pointless review


----------



## strung out (Dec 16, 2010)

this is beautiful stuff


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Pointless review


 
desperation review. The sort of review you go for when you really can't afford to lose your first four wickets 45 minutes before lunch on the first day


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

What's the definition of optimism?


















An Australian batsman putting on sunscreen


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

lol@warne complaining.


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> lol@warne complaining.


 
struck him full in front. Suck it up bogan


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

Smith keeps pushing at the ball outside off with no conviction at all. Rubbish


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

Feels like at times we are just playing Bangladesh.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 16, 2010)

AKA pseudonym said:


> i should stick around... 34-4...............


 
wasnt far out 7 runs,,,

I predict the english win the ashes sooner than later!


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

What has happened to Australian batting? Hughes & Smith both have shocking technique. Is Khawaja the same or does he know how to hold the thing properly?


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

Hussey had no idea where that six was going, could have ended up anywhere.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 16, 2010)

Hussey will piss us off again.


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

embree said:


> Smith keeps pushing at the ball outside off with no conviction at all. Rubbish


 
See. Weird, clunky, tentative, shit technique gets him out. Absolutely shite.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Dec 16, 2010)

69 for 5 lol
n im irish


----------



## JimW (Dec 16, 2010)

Massive Mr Swann! Broken what must have been the last stand


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

that's exactly what the UDRS is for, crap umpiring decision originally. Go away Hussey you horrible little man


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

Does Prior have the biggest jaw in Test history? Will Wisden be able to tell us?


----------



## Idaho (Dec 16, 2010)

Woke up just in time to hear Swann's wicket. Excellent work England. Just need to break this last partnership and it's all rabbits. Tremlett was a good pick.


----------



## og ogilby (Dec 16, 2010)

embree said:


> Does Prior have the biggest jaw in Test history? Will Wisden be able to tell us?


 
He's got a look of Desperate Dan.


----------



## JimW (Dec 16, 2010)

Another great catch and better still it's Haddin! Could keep them to not much past 200 if we keep this up!


----------



## Idaho (Dec 16, 2010)

Oh yes. Harris gone.

Was just about to predict 211 all out.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 16, 2010)

It makes waking up for work worthwhile.

Now to score 600 runs and then bowl them out again for 200.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 16, 2010)

Bunny's got his fifty, he's actually played well - fair do's to him, he needed to.


----------



## JimW (Dec 16, 2010)

Yep, looks an even better contribution when the recognised batsmen have let the side down.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 16, 2010)

Need to get rid of these last two pronto..


----------



## kabbes (Dec 16, 2010)

Letting this get away...


----------



## Idaho (Dec 16, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Letting this get away...


 
Lol. Letting it get a away? They are still under 250 on the first day on a good wicket!


----------



## Santino (Dec 16, 2010)

YES!


----------



## Dan U (Dec 16, 2010)

Santino said:


> YES!



good knock from Johnson


----------



## tarannau (Dec 16, 2010)

Huzzah!


----------



## Balbi (Dec 16, 2010)

Bunny top scorer, Australia in disarray.

If you listen to TMS on Pontings dismissal, listen to Boycott sounding genuinely happy about something for once in his life


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 16, 2010)

Nine wickets down ,mind i remember lillie and thomo making a thundering nuisance of themselves making seventy odd runs for the last wicket


----------



## Dan U (Dec 16, 2010)

come on England, get rid of one of these, this total and Aussie tails are rising


----------



## Dan U (Dec 16, 2010)

phew


----------



## JimW (Dec 16, 2010)

Funny how that's pretty good going but feels like a disappointment cos it should have been closer to the 200. Know you're spoiled when you can have these sort of thoughts in an Ashes series though


----------



## strung out (Dec 16, 2010)

50-80 runs fewer would have been nice, but i'll take that. lead of at least 100 please, preferably another 200+ lead.


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

Let's avoid the follow on first 

Small targets get you towards big totals


----------



## JimW (Dec 16, 2010)

Wise words. Play out the session unscathed is first on my list.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 16, 2010)

JimW said:


> Funny how that's pretty good going but feels like a disappointment cos it should have been closer to the 200. Know you're spoiled when you can have these sort of thoughts in an Ashes series though


 
definitely!


----------



## kabbes (Dec 16, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Lol. Letting it get a away? They are still under 250 on the first day on a good wicket!


 
At that stage, there was a danger of a large 9th wicket stand -- they could have yet ended up on 300.

Fortunately, they didn't!  But years of watching my cricket and football teams have taught me to always fear the worst.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 16, 2010)

It's a pitch where the likes of Siddle and Hilfenhaus were cutting and hooking with confidence. If we take the shine off the new ball and don't lose a wicket, Australia could have a couple of hot and thankless days ahead of them.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 16, 2010)

England's day 

Vaughan "Pathetic"


----------



## JimW (Dec 16, 2010)

And through to close with all wickets in hand. Schplendid.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 16, 2010)

few words being spoken again!!

bloody whinging aussies


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

Thumbs up. An eighth successive day on top


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 16, 2010)

Team batting first all out for a score in the mid-200s, team batting second safely negotiate a few overs at the end.

That's the rule for the first day.


----------



## fen_boy (Dec 16, 2010)

Another for the Ponting collection.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 16, 2010)

embree said:


> This is why Tremlett was picked, Bresnan wouldn;t have done this


fair enough, guess I was wrong about Tremlett


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2010)

Colly's five best catches - with vids.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 16, 2010)

JimW said:


> Funny how that's pretty good going but feels like a disappointment cos it should have been closer to the 200. Know you're spoiled when you can have these sort of thoughts in an Ashes series though


you bet - if Strauss had been offered today's stumps position at outset, he'd have bitten the offerer's arm off.
Another really good day for England, but oh god the aussies looked poor


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Another for the Ponting collection.


 
I can't help notice that Colly's very 'excited' about the catch himself


----------



## mattie (Dec 16, 2010)

Not just a face to scare the horses.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2010)

_Anderson has bowled 25 balls at Ponting this series for 3-15_


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> _Anderson has bowled 25 balls at Ponting this series for 3-15_


 
that economy rate is shite


----------



## Dan U (Dec 16, 2010)

Look at this crap on the Melbourne Age website!

i'll be gutted if i go to a half full MCG on Boxing Day, even my father in law is saying he might not go (in amongst being adamant they are going to bowl us out tomorrow and win the test)
still, i still want us to hammer the Aussies in Perth



> Poll: Will you still attend the Boxing Day Test if the Ashes are lost to England?
> Poll form
> 
> 1. Please select an answer. Yes, but only on Boxing Day
> ...


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2010)

As long as they sell their ticks to poms outside - fuck 'em. I suspect they'll be giving them away though.

It is pathetic. One of the most famous days in the game.

aussie aussie aussie


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 16, 2010)

Although they irritate the hell out of me, one of the things I begrudgingly admire about the barmy army lot is that they will always turn up, even if England lose every game.

That aussie attitude is an odd one, if true. As Butchers says, the Boxing Day test is an event – it's a treat, no matter what the state of the series. Bizarre.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 16, 2010)

Just watched the highlights, and they reminded me how much I love watching the WACA test. I think it's my favourite venue. I love cricket on bouncy tracks. It is so much more exciting – shots get full value and edges fly!


----------



## Dan U (Dec 16, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> As long as they sell their ticks to poms outside - fuck 'em. I suspect they'll be giving them away though.
> 
> It is pathetic. One of the most famous days in the game.
> 
> aussie aussie aussie


 exactly what i said to my wife.

she wondered if the English would do the same, i said we are suckers and turn up what may (and proud of it)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 16, 2010)

Well the Barmy Army was given its name by Australians who were amazed that they kept supporting their team even as they were being thrashed.


----------



## embree (Dec 16, 2010)

I'd be surprised if the MCG has less than, say, 70,000 there on Boxing Day. It's the following days that may suffer, there's always a drop off anyway.

That said, the G looks empty when it has a crowd equivalent to a Lord's sell out. The place is massive, absolutely awe inspiring


----------



## Dan U (Dec 16, 2010)

I hope we can get in with the Barmy Army. My mate is bringing his Palace / England flag. 

My Aussie inlaws will be stoked.


----------



## Santino (Dec 16, 2010)

A lot of the press gushing over Tremlett now. Potential no.1 bowler in the word and all that (Copyright S.K. Warne).

Tremlett and Swann bowling in tandem could winkle a few sides out over the next couple of years.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2010)

He's playing at the waca morons - broad has to come back in, if we get a fit decent all-rounder...whose dropping out? Bell? Colly?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 16, 2010)

he looked bloody good today though. Dare I say it garneresque


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 16, 2010)

Hush your mouth.


----------



## Santino (Dec 17, 2010)

He is apparently overwhelming in the flesh. Just a huge walking mountain of a man. He just looks a bit tall on the telly though.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

Did we have this one before?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

_Make them grovel_


----------



## Santino (Dec 17, 2010)

Can we get a review on this one?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Well the Barmy Army was given its name by Australians who were amazed that they kept supporting their team even as they were being thrashed.


 
Did you ever see big bird in real life?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

Santino said:


> Can we get a review on this one?


 
I think he's gone.


----------



## Santino (Dec 17, 2010)




----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

**for another thread**


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 17, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Did you ever see big bird in real life?


i did yes. At a charity match somerset played in monmouth. I've still got a bat somewhere with mostvof the team's signatures on it. I remember viv Richards hit about three balls into the river. I don't remember much about garner except that he was big. I was only about ten


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 17, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> The fascism is whitewashed i see. I don't know why i bother.


 
Am I missing something?


----------



## Santino (Dec 17, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Am I missing something?



It's been known.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 17, 2010)




----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Am I missing something?


 
Was a reply to the wrong thread.

Garner in the first class game was scary.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 17, 2010)

Yeah. He'd usually go for about one run an over in one dayers didn't he. They were just glad to keep him out :d


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 17, 2010)

Dan U said:


> Look at this crap on the Melbourne Age website!
> 
> i'll be gutted if i go to a half full MCG on Boxing Day, even my father in law is saying he might not go (in amongst being adamant they are going to bowl us out tomorrow and win the test)
> still, i still want us to hammer the Aussies in Perth



that's fucking disgraceful..

eta: i mean the poll stats


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah. He'd usually go for about one run an over in one dayers didn't he. They were just glad to keep him out :d


 
25% of overs gone - game almost over.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

Johnson's trying too hard, he's going to spray it all over the shop. Few singles many fours. Aussie discipline breaks down in 2nd session, every bowler for themselves. 

Good day for the trees.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

120 up by lunch. Leaving balls all day


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

Strauss, hold it straight or flat, so now you know. Don't leave it hanging out there. 

Ta.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 17, 2010)

hehe... they're useless in the field atm


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

You useless twats


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 17, 2010)

it's true what the commentators are saying... england are totally on it in the field, it's those catches (or not) that make all the difference. after all, it's taking wickets that wins matches, nothing more, nothing less. come on the ing-er-land!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

Ticking over nicely


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 17, 2010)

if it all goes tits up for the ozzies and we retain the ashes after this game, what odds on ponting being dropped? seeing how desperate the selectors seem, might we see ponting given the heave-ho before the end of the series? eh? eh?


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 17, 2010)

ffs


----------



## Roonster (Dec 17, 2010)

England 98 for 4.. just shows this is a bowlers pitch and we let the aussies get to many runs in thier first innings


----------



## Roonster (Dec 17, 2010)

98 for 5.. we are getting a good hiding here


----------



## Roonster (Dec 17, 2010)

in fact we are batting like shitheads


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 17, 2010)

had a strange feeling this would happen.


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Roonster said:


> England 98 for 4.. just shows this is a bowlers pitch and we let the aussies get to many runs in thier first innings


 
is it fuck. The ball's swinging crazily thanks to the breeze there, fuck all to do with the pitch

Stop panicing everyone, Australia were 69-5 and there's nothing wrong with the pitch, their tail showed that


----------



## Roonster (Dec 17, 2010)

embree said:


> is it fuck. The ball's swinging crazily thanks to the breeze there, fuck all to do with the pitch
> 
> Stop panicing everyone, Australia were 69-5 and there's nothing wrong with the pitch, their tail showed that


The "breeze" that is some breeze to turn a cricket ball.. lol.. anyway like I say we had a good bowling pitch for our bowlers.. that is why we chose to bowl first.. now we have to get within say 50 runs of them to win this test.. but a draw would do .. it's early days


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

It's not 'turning', it's swinging. Johnson's swinging it because he's got his action sorted again (temporarily) and the wind's blowing from the Prenderil End which always assists swing at Perth. Harris and Siddle are struggling to control that swing which is why they're spraying it around and posing little threat. Watch the ball through the air before it pitches. That's swing. The pitch is still true - bouncy and quick but true all the same. Not much breeze yesterday, there is today.


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Bowling well at Perth is about length. Pitch it up and you'll get wickets, which is what Johnson's doing. Get seduced by the bounce and you won't (against Australia anyway, cos they're used to it) because that bounce is even and easily leaveable. Johnson has his wrist position right, his arm's higher than it has been recently and as a result he's swinging it and got his line and length right. Finn in particular needs to take note of that length, that's where you need to bowl at Perth


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Warne looks like a waxwork dummy of himself

Prior needs to learn to leave the ball. You don't need to play at anything outside off here unless it's either swinging or you're trying to score


----------



## Roonster (Dec 17, 2010)

well ok ..turn ..swing or whatever if we can get 300 runs from this innings we should be ok


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Jesus Siddle's shit


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Roonster said:


> well ok ..turn ..swing or whatever if we can get 300 runs from this innings we should be ok


 
mmm, we'll need to bowl well again though and rough parity or a lead for Aus may encourage their top order to sort their lives out and stop playing shit shots. Fancy a result either way, 250-300 in  the first two innings should mean a result especially given that Perth just doesn't lose time to rain or light.

Siddle really can't control the swing here, he's all over the place with his length


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Oh for fuck's sake


----------



## Roonster (Dec 17, 2010)

looks like 300 is not on for England.. this makes the aussies first innings look good.. and we had em at 42 for 3 in the first innings.. fuckin 145 for 6


----------



## Roonster (Dec 17, 2010)

we will be out for less than 200 at this rate


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Steady on, Bell's in and looking good. Trust


----------



## Roonster (Dec 17, 2010)

embree said:


> Steady on, Bell's in and looking good. Trust


Ok lol


----------



## a_chap (Dec 17, 2010)

In the time it's taken to make Mrs Chap her morning cuppa we've lost two wickets 

I'm going back to bed...


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 17, 2010)

We need to get close to or past their score .I think our bowlers will enjoy the conditions better


----------



## Dan U (Dec 17, 2010)

Johnson is a wounded beast, Cooley has done well with him.

I was worried about the runs there tail added yesterday, more so now.

Still we weren't going to get to Sydney with a procession, now we will see what England are made of.

Bell gone btw


----------



## a_chap (Dec 17, 2010)

Oh bugger. Now Bell's out for 53 and I'm still eating my toast.


----------



## JimW (Dec 17, 2010)

Fuck about. Just seen the scorecard. Listened to TMS podcast last night and Boycott's saying 'you won't know if it's a good score until the other team's batted' and I'm thinking ah c'mon, but here we are.


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

shagnasty said:


> We need to get close to or past their score .I think our bowlers will enjoy the conditions better


 
If they pitch it up and don't get carried away by the bounce

Shit shot from Bell


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Dan U said:


> Johnson is a wounded beast, Cooley has done well with him.


 
Cooley's the one who's been coaching him through his decline


----------



## Badgers (Dec 17, 2010)

Not great today. 
Bell gone too


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 17, 2010)

fuck sakes. we are gonna have to battle really hard for this test now.


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

agh, TestMatchSofa appear to have collectively slit their wrists and gone off the air. Things get worse and worse

Right, early wickets and that means NOT trying to bounce them every time


----------



## Dan U (Dec 17, 2010)

embree said:


> Cooley's the one who's been coaching him through his decline


 
Yeah I know but something has worked since he last played 

England need to show what we've really got now


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Dan U said:


> Yeah I know but something has worked since he last played
> 
> England need to show what we've really got now


 
The more I see of him the more I think he's uncoachable. He has Harmison written all over him


----------



## JimW (Dec 17, 2010)

Bloody hell. What a waste of a good day's work yesterday.


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Some shit shots but credit to Johnson for using the conditions well and getting his action working again. Have to say that when he wasn't bowling they still looked woefully innocuous.

For those of you who haven't been watching, there's sod all wrong with the pitch.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 17, 2010)

wicket!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 17, 2010)

pontings gone  should be out anyway!

he's gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Santino (Dec 17, 2010)

lol


----------



## fen_boy (Dec 17, 2010)

Off you fuck punter.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 17, 2010)

This is lively isn't it?


----------



## JimW (Dec 17, 2010)

Fair play to Ricky, keeping up his recent record of cheering up England supporters.


----------



## JimW (Dec 17, 2010)

Clarke looks like he means business. Wild one soon hopefully.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 17, 2010)

Much needed wicket. We need to finish the day with 5 wickets to feel like we are in the game.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

5? Calm down. We're in it with three.


----------



## Santino (Dec 17, 2010)

Was it Perth where Australia let South Africa score 414 to win in the fourth innings?


Hint: It was.


----------



## JimW (Dec 17, 2010)

Excellent. Go for a wash come back and find Clarke gone.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 17, 2010)

JimW is this on the same time zone as you in China?

i fly to Hong Kong later, any idea of my chances of finding it on TV? its same time zone as HK i *think*


----------



## Idaho (Dec 17, 2010)

Santino said:


> Was it Perth where Australia let South Africa score 414 to win in the fourth innings?
> 
> 
> Hint: It was.



Hmmm.. I wouldn't fancy our chances of chasing down much over 300.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 17, 2010)

me neither.


----------



## Santino (Dec 17, 2010)

Conversely, as an Australian how confident would you be that one of Cook, Trott or Pietersen won't dig in for a couple of days?


----------



## mattie (Dec 17, 2010)

Fell asleep and missed every ball.

Did Mitch finally get it right then?  He looked pretty angry yesterday.  His angry face is actually quite funny, like Dave Grohl with toothache.  Not a patch on big Merv's.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 17, 2010)

Santino said:


> Conversely, as an Australian how confident would you be that one of Cook, Trott or Pietersen won't dig in for a couple of days?


 
Nah. It'll be a result and won't go to the final day. England can still win, but it won't be by digging in. You don't dig in at Perth.

(Except Trott, of course, who literally digs in.)


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

300+ wouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 17, 2010)

Don't get me wrong. I think we can win it. But we need to skittle them before, or just after lunch tomorrow. Chasing 300 will be tough, but doable. Chasing 350 will be a serious stretch. 400 is out of the question. It's not the same wicket as South Africa chased down 400+ to win.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 17, 2010)

So when I said that we were letting it get away from us the other day, when they were at 222, I wasn't being as unreasonable as you thought at the time, then?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

Yeah, it's deader and not day 5.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 17, 2010)

kabbes said:


> So when I said that we were letting it get away from us the other day, when they were at 222, I wasn't being as unreasonable as you thought at the time, then?


 
Even a stopped clock tells the right time twice a day


----------



## kabbes (Dec 17, 2010)

I'm worried that I'm also going to turn out to have been right when I pointed out last week that lots of teams take a beating and then come back to win the next test.

I got lots of people telling me that there was no chance of that either!


----------



## JimW (Dec 17, 2010)

Dan U said:


> JimW is this on the same time zone as you in China?
> 
> i fly to Hong Kong later, any idea of my chances of finding it on TV? its same time zone as HK i *think*


 
Pretty much; hour or two earlier I think. The online feed I've been watching seems to be nicked off StarTV which they'll have at hotels in HK too, so reckon you should be able to watch. Loads of Indians in HK too who'll know where you can see it.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 17, 2010)

JimW said:


> Pretty much; hour or two earlier I think. The online feed I've been watching seems to be nicked off StarTV which they'll have at hotels in HK too, so reckon you should be able to watch. Loads of Indians in HK too who'll know where you can see it.


 
funnily enough my mate who i am staying with for couple of days is married to an Indian! sorted.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 17, 2010)

We can still win it, but a draw's more likely. at long last we've seen an Australia with teeth, at least we know they can do it now.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 17, 2010)

No chance of a draw. There's more chance of a tie than a draw.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 17, 2010)

is there a difference between a tie and a draw?


----------



## kabbes (Dec 17, 2010)

Yes


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 17, 2010)

Yes. Tie is when the match is completed with scores level.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 17, 2010)

kabbes said:


> I'm worried that I'm also going to turn out to have been right when I pointed out last week that lots of teams take a beating and then come back to win the next test.
> 
> I got lots of people telling me that there was no chance of that either!



Yeah you were a real voice in the wilderness with everyone else on the thread completely writing Australia off.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 17, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yes. Tie is when the match is completed with scores level.


So why is a 1-1 scoreline in football called a draw then?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 17, 2010)

You'll have to ask Jimmy Hill that one.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 17, 2010)

I'm not sure if you're being facetious but that sure is what it felt like at one point.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 17, 2010)

kabbes said:


> I'm worried that I'm also going to turn out to have been right when I pointed out last week that lots of teams take a beating and then come back to win the next test.
> 
> I got lots of people telling me that there was no chance of that either!


 
Before the series started, I had England winning 3:1, with the 1 coming at Perth. No need to panic yet. Sydney will be Swann's test, Melbourne should be a place for a few runs.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 17, 2010)

kabbes said:


> I'm not sure if you're being facetious but that sure is what it felt like at one point.


 
Ahem...



littlebabyjesus said:


> I wouldn't bet against Johnson getting it right at Perth.


 


Idaho said:


> Johnson is deadly when he gets it right. Very much a Harmison type as sometime said.


 


liquidlunch said:


> Yes but he is a confidence player in as much if he gets an early breakthrough in his spell,it could set him up for a great comeback.If his tail is up he bowls well


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

I see, miss me out saying that.


----------



## JimW (Dec 17, 2010)

Airbrushed from the podium like a latter-day Lin Biao


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 17, 2010)

History will avenge me.


----------



## JimW (Dec 17, 2010)

Just steer clear of Mongolian airspace for a while is my advice.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 17, 2010)

As usual in sport, EVERYBODY'S right.  And wrong.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 17, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I see, miss me out saying that.


 
As it happens I recalled that you had said it too and tried to find the quote. I failed, posted up, then once again tried to find it and edit the post, but again failed.

So next time you look at me with a tear-streaked face and tell me I don't love you - remember this.


----------



## gabi (Dec 17, 2010)

JimW said:


> Pretty much; hour or two earlier I think. The online feed I've been watching seems to be nicked off StarTV which they'll have at hotels in HK too, so reckon you should be able to watch. Loads of Indians in HK too who'll know where you can see it.


 
download the radio app if you~ve got an iphone.. ive been listening to it here in brazil like that, altho i have to tune into a kiwi station to get the ABC commentary as the beeb is blocked outside the uk

sounds like a great test so far. i can see the poms digging in.


----------



## JimW (Dec 17, 2010)

gabi said:


> download the radio app if you~ve got an iphone.. ive been listening to it here in brazil like that, altho i have to tune into a kiwi station to get the ABC commentary as the beeb is blocked outside the uk
> 
> sounds like a great test so far. i can see the poms digging in.



No iPhone for me I'm afraid. Tried to get the Beeb on a UK-based web proxy but the flash player doesn't work properly. Also, looking at you quoting me not sure why I'm on about the number of Indians in HK when there's of course also loads of Aussies and English who are also going to be able to give Dan pointers.


----------



## Santino (Dec 17, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> is there a difference between a tie and a draw?



Get the fuck off this thread.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 17, 2010)

Santino said:


> Get the fuck off this thread.



i find you hilarious at times old son,keep it up and you could become an honourary aussie
We may kick your lilly white behinds this test


----------



## fen_boy (Dec 17, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> i find you hilarious at times old son,keep it up and you could become an honourary aussie
> We may kick your lilly white behinds this test



Where were you when you were shit?


----------



## Santino (Dec 17, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Where were you when you were shit?



Presumably practising in the nets. He was only two places away from being called up.


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

mattie said:


> Fell asleep and missed every ball.
> 
> Did Mitch finally get it right then?  He looked pretty angry yesterday.  His angry face is actually quite funny, like Dave Grohl with toothache.  Not a patch on big Merv's.


 
wrist position much better, arm higher and straighter. Left armer bowling the inswinger to the right handed batsman is an absolute killer when it's done well - lots of chances for lbw and so it proved. The contrast between him and the other Aussie bowlers was massive, they were all pitching far too short whereas he got his length spot on. Fair go to him but I wouldn't want him bowling for my life even if he does produce spells of genius like that


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Agree that a draw looks way out of the question, 23 wickets down in two days should tell you that.

To win we need: to pitch it up and swing it. Get Hussey & Haddin quick smart (obv) and Johnson too. Not be chasing too many more than 300. When chasing, LEAVE THE BALL when pitched short or wide, unless it's there to be hit. See Johnson off (if he's going to have another day like that) and not lose Strauss, KP or Trott early in their innings. Once they're in, they'll deliver but all are vulnerable early on.

No predictions from me here but I think we're capable of chasing up to 350


----------



## embree (Dec 17, 2010)

Oh and Bell is clearly in great form but seems to feel obliged to hit out when with the tail. Got out in a daft way that he never looked like doing before, presumably because he felt he had to pile some runs on before the tail folded. He either needs to learn to trust the last four batsmen, three of whom are pretty capable in their own way, or move up to five.


----------



## gabi (Dec 17, 2010)

The short stuff certainly worked against that cretin prior. Looks like he's been found out.


----------



## mattie (Dec 17, 2010)

gabi said:


> The short stuff certainly worked against that cretin prior. Looks like he's been found out.



What have you found?


----------



## Idaho (Dec 17, 2010)

When we do get in, and I hope its before lunch tomorrow, we just need to stay in. There's loads of time.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 17, 2010)

gabi said:


> The short stuff certainly worked against that cretin prior. Looks like he's been found out.


I don't mind Prior. He's a damn good keeper these days. With the bat he's like a slightly better version of Swann.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

Get in there bodyline style. I love cricket.

Prior is a far far better batsman than the above says too - you do keep chucking out those idiocies.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

Idaho said:


> When we do get in, and I hope its before lunch tomorrow, we just need to stay in. There's loads of time.


 
Think about this. 

Go on...time/staying in...go on lovey..you can do it....


----------



## gabi (Dec 18, 2010)

mattie said:


> What have you found?


 
That he's a pussy against the short stuff. Siddle was all over him. It was almost as fun as swann in Cardiff.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

gabi said:


> That he's a pussy against the short stuff. Siddle was all over him. It was almost as fun as swann in Cardiff.


 
wow.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

embree said:


> Agree that a draw looks way out of the question, 23 wickets down in two days should tell you that.
> 
> To win we need: to pitch it up and swing it. Get Hussey & Haddin quick smart (obv) and Johnson too. Not be chasing too many more than 300. When chasing, LEAVE THE BALL when pitched short or wide, unless it's there to be hit. See Johnson off (if he's going to have another day like that) and not lose Strauss, KP or Trott early in their innings. Once they're in, they'll deliver but all are vulnerable early on.
> 
> No predictions from me here but I think we're capable of chasing up to 350



We'll do that. We'll have 320-ish to chase and we'll do it.


----------



## gabi (Dec 18, 2010)

Holy shit


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

What can they set us that we can't get?


----------



## strung out (Dec 18, 2010)

450+ would be extremely unlikely. anything under that is possible, but 300-350 would be comfortable-ish, assuming we're not silly and johnson reverts to form


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

So we're looking at about 380 as the top end of what we can do?


----------



## strung out (Dec 18, 2010)

at a guess i'd say, yep. as long as we bundle out hussey early this morning, we'll be chasing 300ish i reckon. theoretically that won't be a problem, but then again we didn't see ourselves getting out for 180 yesterday either.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

If Somerset can do 476 last dsay (iiric) we can do it. Faith in these boys.


----------



## strung out (Dec 18, 2010)

all we need to do is transfer the last day of this test to taunton then


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

strung out said:


> all we need to do is transfer the last day of this test to taunton then


 
You must *belive*


----------



## strung out (Dec 18, 2010)

don't worry, i do. this lineup has got balls. we'll chase down anything under 400


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

Aus must be shitting it.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

fen_boy said:


> Where were you when you were shit?


I work in very remote locations,quite often without a computer within 300 miles.Google Cooper Basin Aust


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

I think he meant the future mate.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

You ain't got one.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I think he meant the future mate.


 
how soon you forget the 20 years before the 06-07 series.Your fucking lot couldnt win a chook raffle let alone a test


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 18, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> how soon you forget the 20 years before the 06-07 series.Your fucking lot couldnt win a chook raffle let alone a test


 
Quit living in the past, mate.....


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> how soon you forget the 20 years before the 06-07 series.Your fucking lot couldnt win a chook raffle let alone a test


 
Won it, ate it, fucked it,  your wife, Your prob if she wants me to hang around


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

What are the conditions for today?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

Aggression from #1

If we're fighting an unsurmountable # let#s do it proper.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

Meaningless crap. Sorry.


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

gabi said:


> That he's a pussy against the short stuff. Siddle was all over him. It was almost as fun as swann in Cardiff.


 
what?! Siddle was bowling a succession of short, uncontrolled filth. Until that freak wicket he was the worst bowler out there, which is saying something given Harris was also on at the time


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

Seriously, after nearly 2000 Test runs and an average of over 40, Prior's been 'found out' by some misdirected shit and a freak bowled off his midriff? What?!


----------



## gabi (Dec 18, 2010)

Sounded fairly controlled to me, in that he was pitching short and aiming for the chest. The ball before he was out just about broke his ribs. I'm listening to abc radio mind u. These guys aren't actually bad commentators all things considered.


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

He was all over the show, hooping it all over the place, fucking shocking stuff. It was complete garbage


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

He was giving Haddin more problems trying to prevent dozens of byes than he was Prior


----------



## gabi (Dec 18, 2010)

Read the paper today. Check who won that battle. Lovely to listen to. There's not many players I'd like to see roughened up but prior fits the bill.


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

Means fuck all. Stop listening to ABC, they're obviously idiots


----------



## gabi (Dec 18, 2010)

Lol. No, they're not. Quite lucid actually.


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

Well they're describing a completely different Test match then, get some pictures

Twatto's referral there was idiotic the self interested moron


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

here's Mr shit technique then. Bat miles away from his body, elbow pointed straight up in the air. Shite.


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

embree said:


> here's Mr shit technique then. Bat miles away from his body, elbow pointed straight up in the air. Shite.


 
the fact we allowed him 36 runs shows how far off the boil we've gone.


----------



## JimW (Dec 18, 2010)

Nearly there. Get 'em out for 300 give or take and there's an interesting couple of days in prospect.


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

well, maybe. Johnson out for naff all so he'll bowl shit and need a few more weeks of therapy.

Finn's on the verge of a fiverfer when he's bowled short garbage all day, esp to Hussey. Brainless shit


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

200 Test wickets for Jimmy - second youngest Englishman to the total


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

Tremlett gets five - 391 to win. As in Brisbane, two decent scores and fuck all from the rest of the Australian order.

We have time to spare. We have the batsmen. The pitch is possibly going a bit up and down but generally OK. They have a load of shit bowlers and a headcase who's capable of anything.

We'll lose. But we could just do it.


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 18, 2010)

I was watching alistair cook batting and the concentration in his face was very intense .We need to get our heads down and not  play silly shots .It is a big ask but it can be done


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

fuck's sake Ali, don't nibble at those


----------



## strung out (Dec 18, 2010)

cook gone


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 18, 2010)

arses - cook lbw


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

Harris is bowling at the stumps, bit of a novelty


----------



## strung out (Dec 18, 2010)

strauss gone now too


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 18, 2010)

oh dear...


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

That was coming, Johnson's bowling well, even to the left hander. Strauss couldn't resist nibbling but Johnson not really giving him many he could safely leave either.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

morning to you all,hope your enjoying the day as much as i amWe really need a two fingered salute smiley here dont we?


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

This camera zoom thing whenever a ball is bowled is monstrously irritating. Whenever there's an edge you can't see where it's gone. Sort it the fuck out Channel 9


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 18, 2010)

streaker!

sky cut to the scorecard though


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 18, 2010)

embree said:


> This camera zoom thing whenever a ball is bowled is monstrously irritating. Whenever there's an edge you can't see where it's gone. Sort it the fuck out Channel 9


 yes that is very very annoying


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

KP you dick. Horrible waft at a ball that was easily leaveable. Nobhead.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 18, 2010)

KP out immediately after changing his bat. Should have left that well alone


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

see ya later kev


----------



## a_chap (Dec 18, 2010)

Not to put too fine a point on it but what a feckin' useless CUNT Pieterson is


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Dec 18, 2010)

not looking good now...only trench warfare from trott and colly can save us now


----------



## a_chap (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh no. Now Trott 

81 for 4


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

on the bright side, that was a shocking drop from Ponting. His eyes have gone


----------



## a_chap (Dec 18, 2010)

Oh god it just gets worse. Colly's out to the last ball of the day  

Aus should take the extra half hour and put us out of our misery.


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

a veritable smorgasbord of shit shots there


----------



## a_chap (Dec 18, 2010)

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the damn nightwatchman supposed to take the strike???? 

Must. Kill. Anderson.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

a_chap said:


> Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the damn nightwatchman supposed to take the strike????
> 
> Must. Kill. Anderson.


you are spot on,nightwatchman must be at the crease facing,pity he cant follow instructions.Ausie Aussie Aussie


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

Collingwood playing a fucking awful shot is hardly Anderson's fault. Sending out a nightwatchman was stupid anyway when next man in is in better form than anyone else


----------



## Santino (Dec 18, 2010)

So, centuries from Bell and Prior then?

And a 50 from Jimmy.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 18, 2010)

Hmm...

Lack of killer instinct with the ball and a lack of determination with the bat in the first innings. Add Johnson to that and it amounts to a deserved win by Australia.


----------



## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

What does 'killer instinct' even mean though? It was bowling shit length that stuffed us against Hussey


----------



## Idaho (Dec 18, 2010)

It means concentrating, being focussed and bowling to plan.


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## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

fairly quiet here boys????whats happened to all the chat then???


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 18, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> fairly quiet here boys????whats happened to all the chat then???


 
Was fucked on mdma/ket last night so couldn't be fucked with chatting on here,lol. Same again tonight me thinks!

Like you can talk anyways!


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> fairly quiet here boys????whats happened to all the chat then???


 
Ha. 

300 partnership Bell/Prior tomorrow, then. 

Not completely impossible. But highly unlikely. Well done Australia – England's batting has failed this match, couldn't cope with the WACA conditions. 

Shame. I'd love it if more grounds were like the Waca. The Oval used to be a bit like it, but has got slower and slower over the years. Hard bouncy wickets always make for good cricket, imo.


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## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Was fucked on mdma/ket last night so couldn't be fucked with chatting on here,lol. Same again tonight me thinks!
> 
> Like you can talk anyways!


cant resist a sledgeand  i do have a valid reason for not being on here as much as i would like,especially this test


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## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

The WACA has had a fair bit of work done in the last 5 years to bring it back up to its original glory.Its always been that fucking hard a cat couldnt scratch it.The curator has been there 5 years now and has done a good job i think.Also Mitch Johnson and Mike Hussey want to do well in front of their home crowd


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## DrRingDing (Dec 18, 2010)

I want to see them struggle to beat us. A belligerent 30 from Anderson and a fluid 70 - 80 from Bell.....and a piss take 50 from Swann.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 18, 2010)

I just hope the next two tests have batting pitches so we can murder the aussies again.


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## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> I want to see them struggle to beat us. A belligerent 30 from Anderson and a fluid 70 - 80 from Bell.....and a piss take 50 from Swann.


 
you will be lucky to get thru the first session.Perth is two and a half hours behind us so it starts at 12.30 pm our time.Down the pub for lunch and watch the first session there.Fully expect to be home at 3pm,half cut and happy with the win.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

This hasn't been as bad a batting wicket as England's scores suggest. In fact, getting the 20 Aussie wickets for 570 isn't such a bad effort. But even the best bating units can fail collectively on occasion – just look at what's happened to India at Centurion. 

England can bounce back – I had Australia winning at Perth anyway.


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## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I just hope the next two tests have batting pitches so we can murder the aussies again.


what did Geoff Boycott say?"Both teams have to bat badly before you can say the pitch is fooked"
Bring it on baby


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 18, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> This hasn't been as bad a batting wicket as England's scores suggest. In fact, getting the 20 Aussie wickets for 570 isn't such a bad effort. But even the best bating units can fail collectively on occasion – just look at what's happened to India at Centurion.
> 
> England can bounce back – I had Australia winning at Perth anyway.


 
The pitch looked very green at the start of day one, dunno about the rest of the days.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 18, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> what did Geoff Boycott say?"Both teams have to bat badly before you can say the pitch is fooked"
> Bring it on baby


 
You guys didn't bat that brilliantly first innings, just luckily(for you) abit better than us.


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> This hasn't been as bad a batting wicket as England's scores suggest. In fact, getting the 20 Aussie wickets for 570 isn't such a bad effort. But even the best bating units can fail collectively on occasion – just look at what's happened to India at Centurion.
> 
> England can bounce back – I had Australia winning at Perth anyway.


 
I pretty much entirely agree with this. Notwithstanding a poor bowling plan to Hussey, we didn't do too badly in either of Australia's innings. We bowled them out twice, only a couple of players got runs - Hussey twice, Johnson, Haddin and Watson once each. Everyone else got nothing really.

The problem, pretty self evidently, has been our innings. Johnson's rediscovery of line and length hasn't helped but the failure to cope with the nature of the pitch has stuffed us. Not knowing when to leave, playing with an angled bat when the WACA demands either a perfectly straight or horizontal bat, it has betrayed a dearth of experience of this particular type of pitch. It is in no way a 'bad' pitch, there are runs to be had here, the bounce is true and even. We have simply lacked the competencies to play the pitch.

No surprise in hindsight (and indeed foresight had I not got carried away with Adelaide), Perth is Australia's trump card, the one type of pitch where they have vastly more experience than anyone in the world bar possibly South Africa. It's the quintessential Australian pitch in excelsis, one that isn't really found at any of the other Aussie test venues thankfully. It's a very good Test pitch, wickets available if you bowl correctly and locate the right length and runs in it for anyone who gets the hang of it. Sadly, we've not been very good at that.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

Yep, agree with all that. It's a test of technique, and not surprising that Bell is the England batsman who's looked best so far. It is a true pitch on which you can confidently leave on length, as Hussey showed. England shouldn't be too tough on themselves, though. Even Eastern Australians struggle at the waca.


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

Absolutely - think it was Vic Marks the other day who referred to locals referring disparagingly to 'Eastern States shots'. Certainly the angled bat of Clarke when he played on was a cardinal sin there - straight bat or the cut, hook and pull. Nothing else! Can't remember who it was but read some ex Aussie player saying how Mark Taylor would leave the ball on length there even if they were straight. The 'ooohs' from the slips as the ball passed over his stumps soon subsided once they realised what was going on!


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## gabi (Dec 18, 2010)

crikey. thought i~d check out KP´s legendary twitter feed.

*what* a cock. ycch. namedropping, shocking taste in movies, total ignorance of how shit he is at playing cricket for a country that will never accept such a tosspot, however many lions he gets tattooed on his saffa skin... 

http://twitter.com/kevinpp24

read it n weep.


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

embree said:


> on the bright side, that was a shocking drop from Ponting. His eyes have gone


 
has had an x-ray on his finger after he spooned that catch up - not confirmed if he'll miss the rest of the series

disastrous news for England - what will we do without his crap batting and rubbish field placings?


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## gabi (Dec 18, 2010)

lol. embree you make bill lawrie and the chappells look the model of grace in defeat. an achievement.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

Embree just said that the waca is a good pitch, despite England getting skittled on it. He's admitted that the waca is a fair test of technique and that England have failed that test. That seems pretty fair to me. Lack of grace would have involved moaning that it was too bouncy.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 18, 2010)

Yeah, don't see what embree has said that was unfair to austrailia. Guess gabi's just trolling again.


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## Idaho (Dec 18, 2010)

It's been a great pitch. A contest of bat and ball, with Australia winning both battles. I hate dead wickets.


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

gabi said:


> lol. embree you make bill lawrie and the chappells look the model of grace in defeat. an achievement.


 
there are shades of grey in the winners and losers, room for criticism in both

Ponting's batting has largely been shit this series, his eyes look gone and that muffed slip catch provides more evidence for it. His captaincy is rank at times


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## Idaho (Dec 18, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Yeah, don't see what embree has said that was unfair to austrailia. Guess gabi's just trolling again.


 
It's a shame that someone will take the bait and encourage her.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

embree said:


> there are shades of grey in the winners and losers, room for criticism in both
> 
> Ponting's batting has largely been shit this series, his eyes look gone and that muffed slip catch provides more evidence for it. His captaincy is rank at times


 
Who replaces him, though? The only batsman who's had a worse series is Clarke, who looks all at sea.


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## Idaho (Dec 18, 2010)

I really don't understand why the captain has to be the best player. Surely you want the best tactician?


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

Yes, but even Brearley had to go in the end because he wasn't making runs. The captain needs to be sure of his place in the team.


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

Khawaja seems like the next fella in line. Clarke or Hussey up to three? It can't make that top order any worse anyway.

With regard to alleged 'bad grace', yeah, I criticise the Australian side a lot. This is because an awful lot of them are barely fit for Test cricket. Hughes, Smith, and Siddle for a start are utter crap, I'm still finding gabi's assertion that Siddle had given Prior a working over in the first innings bizarre.

By the same token I've willingly criticised the shot selection of English batsmen who should know better and the bowling of some of the greener members of the side, Finn in particular. I still maintain England are in better form than Australia (Hussey and - in this Test anyway - Johnson excepted) and on a dead drop-in pitch at the MCG and a pitch suited to Swann in Sydney, we'll win the series 2 or 3-1


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

Ah sorry, replaces him as captain

Clarke looks the only candidate and I'm not sure he has the respect of the dressing room


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yes, but even Brearley had to go in the end because he wasn't making runs. The captain needs to be sure of his place in the team.


 
was it Mike Denness who actually dropped himself on an Ashes tour in 1975?


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## butchersapron (Dec 18, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I really don't understand why the captain has to be the best player. Surely you want the best tactician?


 
Is that ponting then?


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I really don't understand why the captain has to be the best player. Surely you want the best tactician?


 
A combination of both is ideal but rare. I really think that Australia have gone for the 'best player' route too easily over the last decade or so and got away with it because conservative and unimaginative captains like Waugh and Ponting have had McGrath and Warne who didn't take much captaining.

Then there's the Pakistan method of choosing the most senior player with the associated culture of resentment when someone thinks they're more deserving because they've been around longer/used to captain/come from a higher social strata.


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Is that ponting then?


 
best player? Not any more but weight of runs in the past buys him time. Best tactician? Not when he was appointed, ask Shane Warne


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## a_chap (Dec 18, 2010)

The aussies will be all full of hope and expectation that they can win The Ashes after they have won this Test Match.

That, of course, will make retaining The Ashes that much sweeter.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

embree said:


> best player? Not any more but weight of runs in the past buys him time. Best tactician? Not when he was appointed, ask Shane Warne


 
Warne should have been captain. I'm not sure why he was never made captain, but it wasn't a cricketing decision.

Spinners in general are good at reading the game, I think. They have to think about their own games more than the quicks or batsmen, and that gives them a wider appreciation of tactics.

*Perhaps not Monty, though.


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## Idaho (Dec 18, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Is that ponting then?


 
Definitely not.

But all national teams fall into this best player = captain trap. England did it last Ashes tour with Flintoff, and did it previously with Botham. Both were disasterous captains, as was Pietersen.


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## Santino (Dec 18, 2010)

England would have no problem in appointing an interim captain for half a series if Strauss was run over by a bus or something. It is too much of a 'thing' in Australia to do that? They could just make Hussey captain for two Tests.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

If Ponting loses the captaincy, that will be his test career over, won't it? I can't remember an Aussie playing on after losing the captaincy. It's a different culture from England in that regard. 

As far back as Kim Hughes at least, losing captaincy has equalled end of career.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 18, 2010)

Santino said:


> England would have no problem in appointing an interim captain for half a series if Strauss was run over by a bus or something. It is too much of a 'thing' in Australia to do that? They could just make Hussey captain for two Tests.


 
Yeah, Hussey makes the most sense. Annoyingly.


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## Idaho (Dec 18, 2010)

Santino said:


> England would have no problem in appointing an interim captain for half a series if Strauss was run over by a bus or something. It is too much of a 'thing' in Australia to do that? They could just make Hussey captain for two Tests.


 
But why make Hussey captain? Because he seems to be playing well? I don't see the logic.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

Who else is there? It would have to be Hussey, I would have thought.


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## Santino (Dec 18, 2010)

Idaho said:


> But why make Hussey captain? Because he seems to be playing well? I don't see the logic.


 
Because he's a batsman in form. I'm not saying he's the ideal person for the job, but he's an experienced player who's secure in the side.


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## Santino (Dec 18, 2010)

Twatto would be the other option if he could be trusted to bowl himself only when appropriate.


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 18, 2010)

Santino said:


> Because he's a batsman in form. I'm not saying he's the ideal person for the job, but he's an experienced player who's secure in the side.


 
And the rest of the team will have full respect for everything he does atm.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

I'm less than impressed by Strauss as a captain, tbh. He's the right choice, but he not an inspired choice.


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Warne should have been captain. I'm not sure why he was never made captain, but it wasn't a cricketing decision.


 
For all they like to pretend otherwise, the Australian cricket establishment is just as po faced and hung up on appointing the right sort of chap as the English one is. Ponting renounced his laddishness and buckled down, Warne never did


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

Santino said:


> England would have no problem in appointing an interim captain for half a series if Strauss was run over by a bus or something. It is too much of a 'thing' in Australia to do that? They could just make Hussey captain for two Tests.


 
Gilchrist captained the side at Headingley in 2001. Arguably lost them the Test with a generous declaration that Steve Waugh would never have given

Anyway, it'd be Clarke, he's vice captain as Gilchrist was at the time. Doesn't mean he's next in line for the permanent job and I've already said he's not necessarily 100% popular


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

embree said:


> For all they like to pretend otherwise, the Australian cricket establishment is just as po faced and hung up on appointing the right sort of chap as the English one is.


 
Much more so, I'd have thought, given that England have appointed Botham, Flintoff and Pietersen in the past. If Warne had been English, he'd have been made captain.


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I'm less than impressed by Strauss as a captain, tbh. He's the right choice, but he not an inspired choice.


 
He's not always ideal but he has his plus points. Man management of various egos in the side seems to have gone well


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

embree said:


> He's not always ideal but he has his plus points. Man management of various egos in the side seems to have gone well


 
Yep. That bit he's good at. He's not tactically astute, though. I can't remember ever seeing him do something and wondering 'what's he up to' only for it to prove an inspired plan. It's all pretty obvious.

But as I said before, he is the right choice at the moment.


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep. That bit he's good at. He's not tactically astute, though. I can't remember ever seeing him do something and wondering 'what's he up to' only for it to prove an inspired plan. It's all pretty obvious.
> 
> But as I said before, he is the right choice at the moment.



Indeed and I was climbing the walls this morning as Finn kept dropping short to Hussey, Hussey pulled and there was nobody in front of square on the leg side. Easy runs for him and he hardly needed the donations. Similarly unimpressed with the lack of a third man but as this seems to have been almost abolished in Test cricket by everyone it's not just a Strauss thing. Having said that, I believe Steyn had Sehwag caught at third man over in Centurion yesterday.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 18, 2010)

I was disappointed by Finn at Perth. I had high hopes for him there, but he didn't get it right. 

I haven't seen the highlights of yesterday yet, but a criticism I've read was giving Anderson a 7/2 offside field against Watson, meaning he daren't go too straight. Given what an lbw candidate Watson is, that was a big mistake, I think. Now I'm no cricketing genius, but it seems obvious to me that you bowl at least two or three an over at the stumps with Watson, and you set the field accordingly.


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## Santino (Dec 18, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep. That bit he's good at. He's not tactically astute, though. I can't remember ever seeing him do something and wondering 'what's he up to' only for it to prove an inspired plan. It's all pretty obvious.
> 
> But as I said before, he is the right choice at the moment.



I think a captain's tactical nous can be overrated in the grand scheme of things. Much more important to have someone who maintains a good team spirit and lets the players flourish. Clever plans are nothing without bowlers keeping their line, batsmen not playing rash shots and fieldsmen holding onto catches. 

For example, Vaughan will be remembered, rightly or wrongly, as the captain who out-thought Ponting in 2005, but his behaviour while injured - hanging around the changing room and insisting that the team was still his - was unfair to Strauss and Flintoff. After his return from injury his field placings became increasingly eccentric, which I interpreted as him trying to be clever for clever's sake - trying to live up to his own hype rather than responding to the situation in hand.


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## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

embree said:


> A combination of both is ideal but rare. I really think that Australia have gone for the 'best player' route too easily over the last decade or so and got away with it because conservative and unimaginative captains like Waugh and Ponting have had McGrath and Warne who didn't take much captaining.
> 
> Then there's the Pakistan method of choosing the most senior player with the associated culture of resentment when someone thinks they're more deserving because they've been around longer/used to captain/come from a higher social strata.


 
just one little point,if Steve Waugh was so unimaginitive how come he dropped S Warne(brave move) in the West Indies for a test which they won and how come he captained our side to a world record 16 consecutive test wins in 99-00.To me S Waugh was one of the best captains Australia has ever had


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

One thing Ponting did in the last innings was put in a leg slip when Siddle was bowling. This seemed to be more a response to Siddle's creative approach to line for the left hander (ie he was constantly firing it down leg side) than any tactical revelation though 

While we're talking about Twatto, his referral when he was out can be seen three ways: a) he had genuinely lost his leg stump and thought it was missing; b) he really did think he'd hit the ball (mistaking his bat hitting his pad for contact with the ball) or c) he's a selfish idiot who sacrificed a vital team referral for the sake of a century. I'm going with c)


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## embree (Dec 18, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> just one little point,if Steve Waugh was so unimaginitive how come he dropped S Warne(brave move) in the West Indies for a test which they won and how come he captained our side to a world record 16 consecutive test wins in 99-00.To me S Waugh was one of the best captains Australia has ever had


 
the second part is easy - he had the greatest side in Test history playing for him. First part, well maybe it shows some creativity but seeing as Warne never forgave him for it, it maybe wasn't such a smart move from the point of view of team unity.


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## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

M Clarke is being groomed for the job as our captain but if his bad form continues Cameron White might come in for a few years till Clarke matures 
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/c...-cricket-captain/story-e6frf9if-1225948819530


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## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

but seeing as Warne never forgave him for it, it maybe wasn't such a smart move from the point of view of team unity.[/QUOTE]
maybe that was a smart move,Warnie is a fuckwit at times who's big head could lead the more impressionable youngsters of the team astray.To give him the arse for that game showed the rest that S Waugh means business.I think it jerked the slack out of a couple of would be"charlies"


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## Santino (Dec 18, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> M Clarke is being groomed for the job as our captain but if his bad form continues Cameron White might come in for a few years till Clarke matures
> http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/c...-cricket-captain/story-e6frf9if-1225948819530


 
That would be the Cameron White who is a fixture in the current Test side, would it?


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 18, 2010)

hahahahahaha......shambles.....


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## liquidlunch (Dec 18, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> hahahahahaha......shambles.....


Fact: If Ponting continues to fuck up he is not long for this arena.
Fact:Hussey has 1 or 2 years left and we want a longer term captain
Fact: Clarke is underdone in the role as captain
Fact: White is a successful captain at state level,a good batsman and leg spin bowler and relatively young.
Fact:you may mock me now but we will see in years to come who has the better plan


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 18, 2010)

i was laughing at the anglo-saxon implosion you dick, not the hairy ossie resumption of self-belief.


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## embree (Dec 19, 2010)

Remember Headingley 2009 - and what happened afterwards


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## gabi (Dec 19, 2010)

I'd plump for haddin as cap. After another few years of ponting. He (ponting) seems to wind up the poms like no other player I've ever seen. Which in itself is fairly entertaining.


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## strung out (Dec 19, 2010)

this is just a bit embarrassing now


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## Jazzz (Dec 19, 2010)

ah, the old-fashioned England batting collapse...


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## TrippyLondoner (Dec 19, 2010)

Always knew this would happen. Fuck it. Bring on the boxing day test!


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## liquidlunch (Dec 19, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> i was laughing at the anglo-saxon implosion you dick, not the hairy ossie resumption of self-belief.


 
sorry princess,thought your post was referring to the one above yours.


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## embree (Dec 19, 2010)

gabi said:


> I'd plump for haddin as cap. After another few years of ponting. He (ponting) seems to wind up the poms like no other player I've ever seen. Which in itself is fairly entertaining.


 
we're probably wound up by the number of times teams he captains lose to us


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## gabi (Dec 19, 2010)

What, like today?

So anyway, the groupies flew in for this test. Wonder if that contributed to such a thrashing? Not sure why the management would allow them in half way thru the series. Baffling.


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## embree (Dec 19, 2010)

Clearly not, no.

When you say 'groupies', I take it you mean wives and families?


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## Idaho (Dec 19, 2010)

Ughh... grim.

England's batting order back to business as usual?


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## fen_boy (Dec 19, 2010)

Well done Australia; game on now.


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## fen_boy (Dec 19, 2010)

Vaughan says Bell should be pushed up to four. I agree with him.


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## Idaho (Dec 19, 2010)

Aggers is now saying replace Collingwood with another seamer. We need to take the fight to them in Melbourne.


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## strung out (Dec 19, 2010)

aggers is an idiot then. we bowled them out twice for decent totals in the last test, yet struggled to score runs. why on earth should we drop a batsman for a bowler?


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## gabi (Dec 19, 2010)

Hes suggesting dropping collngwood, not a batsman


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## Idaho (Dec 19, 2010)

England have either needed 4 batsmen or 11. I can't think of an instance when specifically 7 were required.


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## Idaho (Dec 19, 2010)

gabi said:


> Hes suggesting dropping collngwood, not a batsman


Rare an event this may be, but gabi is right. He's a tough battling, but ultimately mediocre all rounder. He's a luxury we can't afford.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 19, 2010)

He's a batsman who bowls a tiny bit. He averages over 40 and has made tough runs as recently as last winter. He's been on a bad run of form since then, but he's not a 'mediocre all rounder'.


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## Idaho (Dec 19, 2010)

littlebabyjesu s said:


> He's a batsman who bowls a tiny bit. He averages over 40 and has made tough runs as recently as last winter. He's been on a bad run of form since then, but he's not a 'mediocre all rounder'.


 He is at the moment.


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## strung out (Dec 19, 2010)

we haven't struggled for wickets though. we've easily taken 20 wickets in both the last matches, and apart from haddin/hussey, didn't have any problems in the first test either. why do you want to drop a batsman for a bowler? it's idiotic.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 19, 2010)

they're fucked. england to lose 3-1. nailed on.


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## DrRingDing (Dec 19, 2010)

Aahh, relax. If it wasn't for the spell by MJ things would look a lot different.

I think we need to play dirtier, sledge more and target Mr Pontings finger.


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## embree (Dec 19, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He's a batsman who bowls a tiny bit. He averages over 40 and has made tough runs as recently as last winter. He's been on a bad run of form since then, but he's not a 'mediocre all rounder'.


 
Absolutely. The idea of dropping him for a bowler when we bowled them out twice for less than massive totals is ridiculous.

England still to win the series. Sydney is nailed on, MCG possibly a draw or England win


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## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 19, 2010)

DrRingDing said:


> Aahh, relax. If it wasn't for the spell by MJ things would look a lot different.
> 
> I think we need to play dirtier, sledge more and target Mr Pontings finger.


i'm loving your use of politeness on the last possibility


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 20, 2010)

embree said:


> Absolutely. The idea of dropping him for a bowler when we bowled them out twice for less than massive totals is ridiculous.
> 
> England still to win the series. Sydney is nailed on, MCG possibly a draw or England win


 
I'll be amazed if England make any changes for the next test. The bowlers did ok, although Swann was disappointing, but he delivered in Adelaide and I have confidence that he'll deliver in Sydney too. The batsmen failed collectively, but all of them bar Collingwood have previously shown good form and Collingwood hasn't had much of a chance to show form. Noone else in the team would have taken _that_ catch and he can bowl a few dibblies when the ball's 70 overs old. They'll give the same batsmen the chance to make amends, and they would not want Bresnan or Shahzad coming in at seven. That would only encourage the Aussie bowlers.


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## gabi (Dec 20, 2010)

embree said:


> Absolutely. The idea of dropping him for a bowler when we bowled them out twice for less than massive totals is ridiculous.
> 
> England still to win the series. Sydney is nailed on, MCG possibly a draw or England win


 
Genuine lol here at this post. Embree, I know u think YOU are the real mr cricket but get a grip. Are u a paid up barmy?


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 20, 2010)

I agree with embree. I predicted 3-1 to England with Australia winning Perth before the series started, and I'm sticking with that. 

Forget about Perth – England hammered Aus in Adelaide and Aus returned the compliment. Melbourne is a fresh start.


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## liquidlunch (Dec 20, 2010)

money for old rope in Melbourne.I have to have $100 on Australia but sadly because of the win in Perth i will be lucky to get even money


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## embree (Dec 20, 2010)

gabi said:


> Genuine lol here at this post. Embree, I know u think YOU are the real mr cricket but get a grip. Are u a paid up barmy?



Sydney will suit Graeme Swann far more than Perth will and Melbourne's drop in pitch suggests a high scoring draw, the surface has been dead recently. Both are very different from Perth. Do you have anything informed to say about the series, taking into account two big wins for either side, last year's series which saw the balance swing from one Test to the next and the differing nature of the pitches to be played on?


----------



## embree (Dec 20, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> money for old rope in Melbourne.I have to have $100 on Australia but sadly because of the win in Perth i will be lucky to get even money


 
If you like 

I said before, remember Headingley last year, Australia's massive win followed by England cantering to the Ashes at the Oval. If Hussey fails your batting has very little else to it.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 20, 2010)

embree said:


> Sydney will suit Graeme Swann far more than Perth will and Melbourne's drop in pitch suggests a high scoring draw, the surface has been dead recently. Both are very different from Perth. Do you have anything informed to say about the series, taking into account two big wins for either side, last year's series which saw the balance swing from one Test to the next and the differing nature of the pitches to be played on?


 
She's trolling and you are feeding her.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 20, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> money for old rope in Melbourne.I have to have $100 on Australia but sadly because of the win in Perth i will be lucky to get even money


keep dreamin'! Perth was always gonna be the Aussies' best chance of a result, the Mitchell Johnson that hit form is still the Mitchell Johnson that is one of the most woefully inconsistent and periodically erratic test bowlers there is, and Perth also confirmed the paucity of Aussie batting talent.


----------



## embree (Dec 20, 2010)

Idaho said:


> She's trolling and you are feeding her.


 
Fair point


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 21, 2010)

dirty cheating convicts are doing a last minute change of track at the mcg. cunts! 

i still stand by my 3 - 1 prediction for england to retain the urn, though..


----------



## embree (Dec 21, 2010)

Yes, I noticed today that previous expectations of a dead strip at the G have now changed to something a little livelier, the damp Australian spring and summer making it harder to produce the sort of thing they usually play on. Could make things spicy anyway and somewhat different from the consistency of Perth and the dead tracks at Brisbane and Adelaide,


----------



## Idaho (Dec 21, 2010)

Good. I prefer a lively track.


----------



## embree (Dec 21, 2010)

I definitely prefer a proper Test match pitch with something in it for everyone. There's been too much of a tendency to assume that a 'good' pitch is one where you can bat for days when tbh that's just as much of a bad pitch as one where 150 all out is a winning total. Brisbane was a disgrace in that sense, as are many of the pitches we've seen in India these last few years.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 21, 2010)

embree said:


> I definitely prefer a proper Test match pitch with something in it for everyone. There's been too much of a tendency to assume that a 'good' pitch is one where you can bat for days when tbh that's just as much of a bad pitch as one where 150 all out is a winning total. Brisbane was a disgrace in that sense, as are many of the pitches we've seen in India these last few years.


couldn't agree more. It's taking a liberty with the game, tbh. And it's made for some truly dull matches, all this preparing towards a 5-day affair
England STILL to win the next test. Our batsmen have too much class for Perth to be anything other than an aberration, johnson's too inconsistent to be devastating twice, and their batting order still looks ropey (England must have the thought going through their minds all the time, "nobble Hussey, and we're halfway there"). Class will tell.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 21, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I'll be amazed if England make any changes for the next test. The bowlers did ok, although Swann was disappointing, but he delivered in Adelaide and I have confidence that he'll deliver in Sydney too. The batsmen failed collectively, but all of them bar Collingwood have previously shown good form and Collingwood hasn't had much of a chance to show form. Noone else in the team would have taken _that_ catch and he can bowl a few dibblies when the ball's 70 overs old. They'll give the same batsmen the chance to make amends, and they would not want Bresnan or Shahzad coming in at seven. That would only encourage the Aussie bowlers.


would you keep young Finn?


----------



## embree (Dec 21, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> couldn't agree more. It's taking a liberty with the game, tbh. And it's made for some truly dull matches, all this preparing towards a 5-day affair
> England STILL to win the next test. Our batsmen have too much class for Perth to be anything other than an aberration, johnson's too inconsistent to be devastating twice, and their batting order stikll looks ropey (England must have the thought going therough their minds all the time, "nobble Hussey, and we're halfway there"). Class will tell.


 
Would add to that - get Watson early as well as Hussey. He's a pain.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 21, 2010)

embree said:


> Would add to that - get Watson early as well as Hussey. He's a pain.


true (albeit one who wouldn't know how to get into triple figures if Kylie was waiting there on the balcony promising a night of rumpo after the day in which he did so)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 21, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> would you keep young Finn?


 
Unless he's genuinely tired, I'd keep him. If he is tired, Shahzad would definitely be my choice. I don't mind particularly, as long as they don't go for Bresnan. Finn will come good again.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 21, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Unless he's genuinely tired, I'd keep him. If he is tired, Shahzad would definitely be my choice. I don't mind particularly, as long as they don't go for Bresnan. Finn will come good again.


 
I agree but they'll pick the trusty trundler.


----------



## embree (Dec 21, 2010)

The MCG seems likely to suit seam and reverse swing rather than the trad swing of Perth. So that means either Finn or Shahzad

Khawaja is on standby in case Ponting's out - I'd be surprised if Ponting didn't play though tbh


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 22, 2010)

Ponting will play,but i believe Jimmy Anderson has a side strain and will be replaced by Shahzad.So its one bad thing for us and one for you


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 22, 2010)

Anderson's expected to be fit. 

I will not be surprised if Ponting makes runs. If I were Australian, I'd want him playing.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 22, 2010)

Anderson and Ponting will hopefully play. If Finn seems rested enough and fit, then I say play him. You can't drop the leading wicket taker without good reason, and to their credit, Strauss and Flower have been successful in their non-meddling/tinkering approach.

If Finn doesn't play, I too sincerely hope for Shazad but expect Trundler.


----------



## embree (Dec 22, 2010)

I'm not convinced this Bresnan thing isn't just a false flag thing by the England camp. Remember, some parts of the press were trumpeting his appearance at Perth and we got Tremlett instead


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 23, 2010)

those cheating ozzie cunts have a "drop in" track - so they can produce a whole load of varied surfaces then at the last minute drop in the one that suits the fuckers best!

i mean for fuck's sake, that right there is the epitome of "it's just not cricket"

..except it is cricket, ashes cricket at that, which is really fucking annoying. wankers.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 23, 2010)

Ha ha.

Everyone does it. England do the same thing. It's the home team's prerogative to prepare whatever pitch they like as long as it isn't dangerous. It's what makes winning away series so satisfying!


----------



## embree (Dec 23, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Ha ha.
> 
> Everyone does it. England do the same thing. It's the home team's prerogative to prepare whatever pitch they like as long as it isn't dangerous. It's what makes winning away series so satisfying!


 
Absolutely, home team's right to do whatever they want imo. Drop in pitches were invented in New Zealand because their Test venues are mostly also used for rugby, makes sense to do it at the MCG where they have dozens of AFL games every winter


----------



## Santino (Dec 23, 2010)

They can't prepare the breeze though.


----------



## mattie (Dec 23, 2010)

They can't prepare Jimmy either.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 23, 2010)

mattie said:


> They can't prepare Jimmy either.


Jimmy, will be fine, and the same goes for Johnson, now he's away from his favourite and most familiar ground. Also, England have done well at the MCG in the past (excepting 2006/7!)


----------



## mattie (Dec 23, 2010)

Jimmy'll tear 'em a new one.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 23, 2010)

looks like the pitch will be favouring the bowling side the first day or two.
heres what the curator has told the press.
http://cricket.com.au/news-display/MCG-pitch-has-no-surprises/23362


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 23, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> looks like the pitch will be favouring the bowling side the first day or two.
> heres what the curator has told the press.
> http://cricket.com.au/news-display/MCG-pitch-has-no-surprises/23362


ermm...he's said it's not gonna be that much like Perth 

what's with this 'curator' bollocks, anyway? Does he also look after a museum?
 The word is GROUNDSMAN.


----------



## embree (Dec 23, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> ermm...he's said it's not gonna be that much like Perth
> 
> what's with this 'curator' bollocks, anyway? Does he also look after a museum?
> The word is GROUNDSMAN.


 
They read the score the wrong way around as well


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 23, 2010)

typical bloody convicts!


----------



## embree (Dec 23, 2010)

And they barely even bother putting a seam on their ball.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 23, 2010)

And dash it all, they are all such frightful oiks.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 24, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> typical bloody convicts!


 
We've got convict outfits for Boxing Day but not sure how that will go due to the massive police operation around the first day and we aren't with the barmy army.

I've got a members pass for the third, they def won't let me in wearing it but I can drink strong beer.

Can't wait, although the tails are up over here.

Eta - Aussie press are portraying this as win or bust due to the long range forecast for Sydney, well some of them anyway


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 24, 2010)

Idaho said:


> And dash it all, they are all such frightful oiks.


 
maybe,but ruggedly handsome.Is that why the English blokes stand around in the mens toilets looking at willies?


----------



## Santino (Dec 24, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> maybe,but ruggedly handsome.Is that why the English blokes stand around in the mens toilets looking at willies?


 
Is there something funny about homosexuality?


----------



## Idaho (Dec 24, 2010)

Santino said:


> Is there something funny about homosexuality?


 
Ask John Inman.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 24, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> maybe,but ruggedly handsome.Is that why the English blokes stand around in the mens toilets looking at willies?


 
I think Australia is what happens when the English working class take over a huge continent. Take that as you will


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 24, 2010)

Santino said:


> Is there something funny about homosexuality?


i dont know,im straight.I will have to ask my brother


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 24, 2010)

Idaho said:


> I think Australia is what happens when the English working class take over a huge continent. Take that as you will


 
actually the Irish and Scots were fairly well represented too,not just the smelly english


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

Just realised earlier today i've never watched a boxing day test match before, gonna be a first tonight.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 25, 2010)

I'm well chuffed. Only 3 hours difference between me and Melbourne.

Rape and pillage is order of the day.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

england win toss and bowl first, fucking perfect.


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 25, 2010)

Hmm, Bresnan in and bowling first, not sure I'm entirely with this choice, but would love the Tesco Value FLintoff to run through them and prove me wrong.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

fuck didn't realise bresnan was picked.


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 25, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> fuck didn't realise bresnan was picked.


 
Apparantly Strauss believes swing will matter, rather than banging it in - In other words, they don't need Shazad to reverse it with a fucked up ball cos it will swing conventionally or something like that. Other argument would be that they don't trust Shazad as much as Bresnan who will keep it tight if not terrify anyone. It's either horses for courses or a timid selection....


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

Who was dropped?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

c'mooooooooooooooooooooooooon england!


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 25, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Who was dropped?


 
Finn, he's knackered poor thing. 4 bowlers breaks people.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

lets wait and see what happens then i guess! can only hope.


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 25, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> lets wait and see what happens then i guess! can only hope.


 
Aye, am excited, never do I remember a series in aus staying live so long. It's always dead by now!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

thought it was out!!!!!!


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 25, 2010)

tangerinedream said:


> Aye, am excited, never do I remember a series in aus staying live so long. It's always dead by now!


lol,yeah in your lifetime we would have knocked your lot over by now


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

different times man, get over it. 

wake up chris.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 25, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> thought it was out!!!!!!


 
should have been out but he put it down.Thought colly was in the side for his fielding


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Dec 25, 2010)

Of all the people on the pitch thats who you would have wanted that chance to go to... Nevermind, was a tough one.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

colly hasn't had the best of series tbf


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 25, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> different times man, get over it.
> 
> wake up chris.


cant help myself,sorry


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 25, 2010)

dropped...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

another fucking drop.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

nightmare start, must drink more!


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 25, 2010)

AVE IT!!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

thats more fucking like it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Dec 25, 2010)

WOOP fucking WOOP!!!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 25, 2010)

Another useful start.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 25, 2010)

Key wicket of watson to.


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 25, 2010)

Jimmeh's got it swinging.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

ooh, almost got him.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

thats fucking out!!!!!!!!!!!!! i saw it hit.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

for fucks sakes.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 26, 2010)

how doesn't jimmy have a wicket yet!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 26, 2010)

Nice one timmy!


----------



## strung out (Dec 26, 2010)

always rated bresnan


----------



## strung out (Dec 26, 2010)




----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

didn't even realise it was him


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

must drink more now


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

37-3 bitches!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 26, 2010)

Ttfn punter!!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

Na na na na
na na na na
hey hey hey 
fuck off ponting


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

Happy Xmas Ricky.


----------



## tarannau (Dec 26, 2010)

Excuse the cowboyism, but yeehaw to that


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 26, 2010)

One more and we are bowling at Steve Smith...


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 26, 2010)

Another review...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

wasted review boo

lol aussies desperately cheering anything.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

Aren't the aussies's still sad they're only a one man team?


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 26, 2010)

That will do nicely...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

hussey out!!!!!!!!!!!!! jimmeh!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

motherfucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

Got him!


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 26, 2010)

4/38

i lol'd


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

Oh fuck off now the rain


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 26, 2010)

Hussey was a big wicket.poor old ricky it is a shame to see a player of his ability going through a bad speel but as an englishman i am glad to see him back in the pavilion


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

lunch anyway innit?


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 26, 2010)

hello everyone, a very merry christmas to you all... 58-4!! fucking excellent


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 26, 2010)

getting hussey out of the way before lunch is absolutely wonderful!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

oh damnit, fucking rain.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 26, 2010)

7/77


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 26, 2010)

`


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 26, 2010)

is it a bad batting wicket it looks like we will batting on it soon


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

There is nothing wrong with the pitch.  Disciplined line and length, shit batting, we are simply playing far and away the better cricket.

98 all out on Boxing Day. *98 all out on Boxing Day* 

And to think some people thought the bowling was the problem after Perth


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

I think it bears repeating:

*98 ALL OUT ON BOXING DAY*


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

Mitchell's Johnson hoops one down leg side, barely landing it on the cut strip for four byes. Good to have you back Mitch


----------



## JimW (Dec 26, 2010)

Lovely knock Mr Cook. Must have been intimidating after the Aussies set a new record (low score) for the MCG


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 26, 2010)

Seems to be determination about cook in this series,and he as had a brilliant tour so far


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 26, 2010)

heard from a commentator three english players are south african born ,can you name them


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

shagnasty said:


> heard from a commentator three english players are south african born ,can you name them


 
It's four actually


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

embree said:


> I think it bears repeating:
> 
> *98 ALL OUT ON BOXING DAY*


 
Can I just quote myself for no particular reason?


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

Good to see such an efficient response to today's fire drill at the MCG btw


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 26, 2010)

embree said:


> It's four actually


 
The feed i was using was star tv india but i think it,s the aussie coverage and they said strauss,peterson,and prior i don,t know who's the fourth


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

shagnasty said:


> The feed i was using was star tv india but i think it,s the aussie coverage and they said strauss,peterson,and prior i don,t know who's the fourth


 
Trott


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

Not a bad day. Normal service has been resumed.


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

Yes, shows what a load of cobblers all the chat about 'momentum' can be.

One hand and a couple of fingers on the urn now


----------



## Dan U (Dec 26, 2010)

Had a great day at the G, for anyone whose not experienced a Boxing Day test, what an atmosphere. Big up the singing English. Can't wait to go back on day 3 to see Ponting resign


----------



## Dan U (Dec 26, 2010)

embree said:


> There is nothing wrong with the pitch.  Disciplined line and length, shit batting, we are simply playing far and away the better cricket.



this bares repeating.

according to the Aussies on the MCG radio commentary, the wicket changed repeatedly during the day. it was wet, swinging, straight and changing colour almost hourly, sometimes all at the same time.

we did exactly what embree says, bowled line and length, kept it tight and waited for the mistakes. Bresnan won't make the headlines i doubt but he did great today, really kept the pressure on and it was good to see Jimmy get some rewards

i really doubt the Aussie bowlers would have made quite as much of the cloud cover as our guys did, they just aren't as disciplined as we were today


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 26, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Aren't the aussies's still sad they're only a one man team?


 
Which man is that then? Ponting? Has he even got 100 runs in the whole series?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

Went to bloody sleep and missed the last 6 wickets, ugh.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> Which man is that then? Ponting? Has he even got 100 runs in the whole series?


 
hussey


----------



## Idaho (Dec 26, 2010)

A perfect day! Skittled them for under 100 then our openers get a comfortable lead without loss.


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Dec 26, 2010)

Yep, that was one of the most ruthlessly dominant days cricket I've seen England dish out to Australia in my lifetime. Great stuff


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 26, 2010)

And on Boxing Day at the MCG too. 

Tee hee.


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

Dan U said:


> we did exactly what embree says, bowled line and length, kept it tight and waited for the mistakes. Bresnan won't make the headlines i doubt but he did great today, really kept the pressure on and it was good to see Jimmy get some rewards
> 
> i really doubt the Aussie bowlers would have made quite as much of the cloud cover as our guys did, they just aren't as disciplined as we were today


 
I am prepared to accept my reservations about Bresnan for this game were wrong - with the proviso that I've always trusted the Andys to pick the right team 

It's worth remembering that there have been days when our attack have failed to make the most of ideal 'English' conditions - ie a little juice in the pitch, cloud cover, a touch of green - so it's not just a case of turning up and waiting for the wickets to fall. The discipline was fantastic to see, barely a loose one all innings and the Australians simply didn't have the patience to wait things out.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 26, 2010)

The thing about Bresnan is that he's a good bowler who will never be great. Why not get a younger player with more potential in the side, such as Shazad?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

He'll do for this test thanks.


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 26, 2010)

Idaho said:


> The thing about Bresnan is that he's a good bowler who will never be great. Why not get a younger player with more potential in the side, such as Shazad?


 
Which was exactly what I thought when I heard the team, but fair do's - I was completely wrong as cut price Fred did great. I don't think Bresnan is going to be around for the next 50 tests or owt, but he gave control which is a commodity much underrated when you have others taking wickets.


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> Which man is that then? Ponting? Has he even got 100 runs in the whole series?


 
93 runs at 15.50 in 7 innings so far

Hussey has 525, Watson 298, Haddin 269. The next highest is Michael Clarke with 135 and 80 of those were in one innings


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

btw, looking through the series averages, I see Colly has the most catches of any England outfielder - 7. Worth considering when we assess his worth to the team


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

Another thought - there have been 55 instances of all ten wickets falling to catches in Test cricket, but I wonder how many of those were all catches behind square? 6 for the keeper, two in the slips and two for gully. Pretty extraordinary really


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 26, 2010)

embree said:


> Another thought - there have been 55 instances of all ten wickets falling to catches in Test cricket, but I wonder how many of those were all catches behind square? 6 for the keeper, two in the slips and two for gully. Pretty extraordinary really


 
Aye, it would be a fucker to find out as well I reckon... Interesting stat that.


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Dec 26, 2010)

Sure I remember a test where Jack Russell claimed all ten either by catches or stumpings... Could be wrong though, may have been a county game.


----------



## Jazzz (Dec 26, 2010)

embree said:


> btw, looking through the series averages, I see Colly has the most catches of any England outfielder - 7. Worth considering when we assess his worth to the team


 
He's always been a brilliant fielder, in fact a really classy performer allround. I don't think Collingwood really has been given the reputation he deserves as a huge talent.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 26, 2010)

embree said:


> Another thought - there have been 55 instances of all ten wickets falling to catches in Test cricket, but I wonder how many of those were all catches behind square? 6 for the keeper, two in the slips and two for gully. Pretty extraordinary really


 A sign that the bowlers hit their length and the batsmen were impatient.


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

DaRealSpoon said:


> Sure I remember a test where Jack Russell claimed all ten either by catches or stumpings... Could be wrong though, may have been a county game.



Nope, no keeper has ever claimed all ten in Tests. Russell managed six v Australia at the MCG in 1990 and six v SA at Joburg in 1995

Wasim Bari, Ian Smith, Ridley Jacobs and Bob Taylor hold the Test record with seven in an innings

First class record stands at 9 by a keeper



Idaho said:


> A sign that the bowlers hit their length and the batsmen were impatient.


 
Apparently Sky showed some graphic demonstrating that of the ten wickets, only Hilfenhaus actually needed to play at the ball. The other nine were all missing the stumps. While a couple, such as Hussey's, were in Geoff Boycott's infamous Corridor of Uncertainty with sufficient slight movement to take the edge, others just didn't need to be played at at all. Hughes should never be allowed to open in first class cricket again, he's shocking, a number five at best. If Australia could find a proper opener or two they could move Watson down and utilise his bowling more while protecting Ponting's failing eyes from the new ball. As it is, aside from the injured and aging Katich, there appears to be no decent opening bat in Australia at the moment.


----------



## Santino (Dec 26, 2010)

lol


----------



## Santino (Dec 26, 2010)

98 all out, lol


----------



## Santino (Dec 26, 2010)

157 for 0 lol


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

Great headline in the smh

Australia aim to fight back


----------



## Santino (Dec 26, 2010)

It would be funny if it wasn't so hilarious.


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

Santino said:


> lol





Santino said:


> 98 all out, lol


 


Santino said:


> 157 for 0 lol



Do you mean:



embree said:


> *98 ALL OUT ON BOXING DAY*







butchersapron said:


> Great headline in the smh
> 
> Australia aim to fight back


 
If Mitchell's Johnson is doing the aiming I don't hold out great hope for them tbh


----------



## jannerboyuk (Dec 26, 2010)

I recommend this website for a little gloat http://www.theroar.com.au/2010/12/26/ashes-hopes-in-tatters-after-boxing-day-disaster/


----------



## Idaho (Dec 26, 2010)

I might just watch the highlights show twice tonight. Or once on slow mo.


----------



## Santino (Dec 26, 2010)

I enjoyed this:




			
				Jonathan Agnew off of the BBC said:
			
		

> it was the most one-sided day's play in a Test I have ever seen, even including matches involving Bangladesh and Zimbabwe.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 26, 2010)

my thoughts have always been that bowlers win matches.Anybody on here that is concentrating on how bad we aussies are,are doing your bowlers a disservice.Our batters have done well against every attack in the world except the poms.Prime example yesterday,your guys bowled middle/off consistently with a bit of swing and went thru us like a dose of salts.Our guys bowled anywhere but middle/off and thats the result.I think your bowlers would rip thru any team in the world at the moment and good luck to them.Also you people on here would have to admit our batsmen are all world class on their day


----------



## Santino (Dec 26, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> my thoughts have always been that bowlers win matches.Anybody on here that is concentrating on how bad we aussies are,are doing your bowlers a disservice.Our batters have done well against every attack in the world except the poms.Prime example yesterday,your guys bowled middle/off consistently with a bit of swing and went thru us like a dose of salts.Our guys bowled anywhere but middle/off and thats the result.I think your bowlers would rip thru any team in the world at the moment and good luck to them.Also you people on here would have to admit our batsmen are all world class on their day


 
England have a good bowling side at the moment but, sorry, your lot are still shit. 88 all out against Pakistan a few months ago, remember. 127 all out against Pakistan back in January too.


----------



## strung out (Dec 26, 2010)

steve smith world class? 
hughes? 
north?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

I'm shocked by how little progress Hughes has made sinse i last saw him. A club captain could teach him the basics.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)




----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 26, 2010)

a quote from an article in a local rag
. North's leadership qualities and personable nature are admired by influential figures, and if he can find consistency with the bat he will be a strong chance to take over should Ponting retire before the 2013 Ashes - despite being older than Clarke.

He was a successful state captain.His failure with the bat this summer has astounded me,he was always reliable when good knocks were needed.Maybe he is thinking like a captain and is frustrated at obvious fielding placement blunders or bowling spells,position in the order,who knows


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 26, 2010)

strung out said:


> steve smith world class?
> hughes?
> north?


 
ye may laugh now but down the track,imo they will form part of an emerging team to take that cunting urn back next time
think we have sold the farm this time.
get fucked,the lot of ya


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

Hughes? How?


----------



## strung out (Dec 26, 2010)

> *Their Christmases all come at once *
> 
> OF THE Phoenix that was Australia in Perth, only ashes remain. The namesake trophy - once Australia's pride and joy - is again England's to parade as it sees fit. This time, there will be no miracle.
> 
> ...



http://www.theage.com.au/sport/cricket/their-christmases-all-come-at-once-20101226-197xo.html


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

Loved Hussain just then. Bring back the leave!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

How many turn up/stick it through today then?


----------



## Dan U (Dec 26, 2010)

@liquidlunch Only Jimmy got any swing, the rest were line and length and your top order are either out of form or can't play test cricket


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

Hughes, I still can't believe him.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 26, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> How many turn up/stick it through today then?


 
It's dead right now, its cold and showery in Melbourne. The general feeling is the aussie fans just won't show 

I'm gutted I can't get down today and am hoping I get a full day tomorrow.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

For shame!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

How many of us in Melbourne?


----------



## Dan U (Dec 26, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> For shame!



Innit. It's a shocker. The only reason it wasn't a record crowd yesterday cos the members was proper empty. 

Today it will be dead. At least they should relax the no moving through bays rules so the English should all get together more

Eta - well over ten thousand were there yesterday butchers, easy. We made so much noise. The aussies only have one song, boo there own players and only cheer siddle. Terrible fans


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 26, 2010)

Seems a decent amount of people there for now. The aussie fans have disgraced themselves just as much as their team has this series. Gutless fuckheads.


----------



## Dan U (Dec 26, 2010)

Your girlfriend hates your mother
Your mother hates your girlfriend
Your family hates each other
The Johnson family

(to the tune of the addams family)

Even the aussies boo him out to bat.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

Looks like a great ground, pity about the fans.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 26, 2010)

strung out said:


> steve smith world class?
> hughes?
> north?


 
God knows why Smith is in the team. He's shit.


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 26, 2010)

Idaho said:


> God knows why Smith is in the team. He's shit.


 
Has he actually bowled yet?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

He had a few


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 26, 2010)

whoops.


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

Can I just clarify something (as Cook departs disappointingly)?

liquidlunch actually just tried to claim that Phil Hughes is 'world class', yes?


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

tangerinedream said:


> Has he actually bowled yet?


 
Yeah, he's not very good

His batting technique is non-existent, shocking


----------



## Dan U (Dec 26, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Looks like a great ground, pity about the fans.



It's the cream of a sporting city chock full of stadia 

Let's keep it going now England.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 26, 2010)

Good take -they need a *min* of 3 before lunch / 100 more


----------



## Dan U (Dec 26, 2010)

embree said:


> Can I just clarify something (as Cook departs disappointingly)?
> 
> liquidlunch actually just tried to claim that Phil Hughes is 'world class', yes?



Yep.


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

And so Australia have taken a first innings lead of 16 against Alistair Cook


----------



## embree (Dec 26, 2010)

Dan U said:


> Yep.


 
I thought so

I realise that Mr Lunch is trying to distract from how appalling Australia's top order are by bigging up England's bowling (which was indeed very good) but I fear he is overegging the pudding to an unrealistic extent there. Keep it believable please.

Australia have forgotten to pick a spinner, a classic error. Sadly they've also forgotten to pick an opener and a number six batsman.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

double whoops.


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

good catch that


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Each one means it's easier for us tmw


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

currently listening to TMS

skyplayer isnt working for me
justin tv isnt playing ball either (boom tish)

can someone pm me with alternatives please?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Hussey looks like a witch


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

very good catch tbf


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Hussey looks like a witch


 
he is


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

for a witch lke...


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> very good catch tbf


 
scary witchy vertical take off and landing powers. Not natural


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Siddle looks like a vampire in Buffy post transformation


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm not sure I like the way the director keeps choosing that side on view of KP, legs akimbo and flexing his thighs. It's making me uncomfortable


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

in business at last


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> Siddle looks like a vampire in Buffy post transformation


 
He does, the tough bloke in the car park. You're getting thrown into a mental fence.

Didn't quite carry


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Good news for us that there's life. You're pulling your own noose.


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> He does, the tough bloke in the car park. You're getting thrown into a mental fence.
> 
> Didn't quite carry


 
He looks quite animated for someone who's only just got the openers out when they're already 70 behind


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

pietersen off the mark
bets on his total this innings?


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

21


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

flamingo!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

42


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

im putting my money around the 40 mark, paulie has made a good call
43


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

water break and a giant fizzy mobile orange comes onto t'pitch..


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> I thought so
> 
> I realise that Mr Lunch is trying to distract from how appalling Australia's top order are by bigging up England's bowling (which was indeed very good) but I fear he is overegging the pudding to an unrealistic extent there. Keep it believable please.
> 
> Australia have forgotten to pick a spinner, a classic error. Sadly they've also forgotten to pick an opener and a number six batsman.


 
We have a good spinner,one S Smith.He just hasn't shown it in the world area.He has done well in sheffied shield and deserves a good crack.I am sure he will be part of a much needed rebuild when this series finishes.Openers(Hughes) aren't an easy pick when you are trying to bring stability to your side.He had the scores in the state comp to open the batting when a position became available for the national team.He has to be given some leeway as he was chucked in at the deep end.1 good innings and he will be away,confidence is a good thing to have and display.After this nightmare finishes i think we will have a much needed broom thru the place.I think Watson,Hussey and Haddin are the only certs in the batting lineup


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> water break and a giant fizzy mobile orange comes onto t'pitch..


 
I like to think they all line up to drink from a teat on the cap of the bottle


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> We have a good spinner,one S Smith.He just hasn't shown it in the world area.He has done well in sheffied shield and deserves a good crack.I am sure he will be part of a much needed rebuild when this series finishes.Openers(Hughes) aren't an easy pick when you are trying to bring stability to your side.He had the scores in the state comp to open the batting when a position became available for the national team.He has to be given some leeway as he was chucked in at the deep end.1 good innings and he will be away,confidence is a good thing to have and display.After this nightmare finishes i think we will have a much needed broom thru the place.I think Watson,Hussey and Haddin are the only certs in the batting lineup


 Hughes cannot bat - he can whack the ball if bowled bad. He cannot bat.


----------



## strung out (Dec 27, 2010)

rain coming now. australia have been well flukey in this match


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Hughes cannot bat - he can whack the ball if bowled bad. He cannot bat.


 
He got dropped 18 months ago and it's evident nobody has done any work on his technique at all. He's still nowhere near Test standard


----------



## Steel Icarus (Dec 27, 2010)

What would be a decent score to declare at? 300? 350?


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

Declare? 500-odd. Fuck it, 600 if the weather's clear.


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

There isn't one, we bowled them out in two sessions for heavens sake. Bat forever


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

We have doubled the Australian total for two wickets down


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

declare at 400?


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

so peterson should try to slog it a bit now?


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 27, 2010)

patience here. They won't bowl this tight all day...


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

We're don't have to do 100 a session here, as long as we like.


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Stop the obsession with declaring ffs


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Hughes cannot bat - he can whack the ball if bowled bad. He cannot bat.


 
I dont know about that,at 20 years of age he hit a century in each innings against Sth Africa in Sth Africa.No mean feat there.So to say"he cannot bat" is simply not true


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> Stop the obsession with declaring ffs


Well, I do declare...!!!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> I dont know about that,at 20 years of age he hit a century in each innings against Sth Africa in Sth Africa.No mean feat there.So to say"he cannot bat" is simply not true


 
It is mate. He can hit the ball though.


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

easy 200
love it


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 27, 2010)

game's already away from then. Slow, steady accumulation of runs is taking it further and further away...


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> I dont know about that,at 20 years of age he hit a century in each innings against Sth Africa in Sth Africa.No mean feat there.So to say"he cannot bat" is simply not true


 
after which England figured him out and he failed to progress at all


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

The German's using Johnson's radar then


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> after which England figured him out and he failed to progress at all


 
Middlesex obligingly signed him as an overseas player during which he obligingly scored about 4 centuries (generally in lost causes) while someone from the England camp figured out his weak spot (i.e. the good ball).


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

All eleven wickets to fall so far have been to catches behind the wicket to swinging or seaming balls.

Ponting has one slip in place

I don't need to say much more do I?

Edit: obviously I meant all 12. Obviously


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> All eleven wickets to fall so far have been to catches behind the wicket to swinging or seaming balls.
> 
> Ponting has one slip in place
> 
> ...


 
aye his field placings are becoming more scutinised,but no one else speaks up in the team,its fucked


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm currently enjoying this

A sample:



> It should be a world-record crowd on Boxing Day. Ponting's team has proved it deserves the unadulterated support of every person in the country. England was massacred at its last Boxing Day appearance, overawed and frightened by the sheer volume of Australian support. Australian fans will give it to the English on Sunday. Weaknesses have been exposed. Personalities have been revealed. The MCG will eat them alive.



Read it all the way through, it's comedy gold


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> aye his field placings are becoming more scutinised,but no one else speaks up in the team,its fucked


 
he had that silly mid on in for KP, presumably for the leading edge, but that only works if they bowl short. Which isn't what's needed


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

_where are ya?_


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Are they hiding round the back?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Have him


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Don't.


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

Any reports on whether the Aussie fans are singing any more?


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

beauty!


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Santino said:


> Any reports on whether the Aussie fans are singing any more?


 
They are eating the England team alive.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Tell him


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Every English batsman has scored more than every Australian batsman


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

All run four, nice one


----------



## Dan U (Dec 27, 2010)

226-2 at lunch, rather exposes all the guff about the pitch, the conditions are very similar to yesterday.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 27, 2010)

69 runs for 2 wickets. Honours even for the session, but two more sessions the same and the aussies will be 280 runs behind...


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Dan U said:


> 226-2 at lunch, rather exposes all the guff about the pitch, the conditions are very similar to yesterday.


 
Slow scoring but that's because this pitch requires patience from the batsmen if the fielding side are bowling halfway properly. We didn't need that yesterday because Australia bowled like utter drains


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> I'm currently enjoying this
> 
> A sample:
> 
> ...


 
lol Mr.W.Swinton might get some feedback for that.Every Aussie likes to think we will flog the arse off the happless poms and sometimes plans go astray lol,what plan


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

aussies do one now for a bit really?


----------



## pennimania (Dec 27, 2010)

I actually can hardly stand to listen - it can still go so horribly wrong 

(I am so superstitious about it all)


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

well in theory it could. But it won't.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

He's puffing already.


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> lol Mr.W.Swinton might get some feedback for that.Every Aussie likes to think we will flog the arse off the happless poms and sometimes plans go astray lol,what plan


 
I've just found a more up to date quote from Mr Swanton:



> To use the Australian vernacular, we're stuffed. This was a dark day for Australian cricket. Large chunks of the crowd went home early because Boxing Day had become such a debacle. This was the day the urn was lost. Fat ladies in the Barmy Army are already singing their lungs out. Every additional run for England today is another nail in Australia's coffin. Another dark day and it really will be lights out.
> 
> Will Swanton The Daily Telegraph


----------



## strung out (Dec 27, 2010)

i've been having a go at people on other forums for coming out with shit like "oh, it would be typical england for us to throw it away now".

well, i'm not saying that england have never thrown away a match before, but come on. we've been pretty good for about 6 or 7 years at least now. being good one minute and shit the next isn't something exclusive to england. unless you're the best team in the world (and not even then, sometimes), every team collapses inexplicably, chucks the odd game away, struggles abroad etc. ditto in football. being inconsistent is common to pretty much every team in the world in every sport apart from the very best and the very shittest.


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

good restart by kp


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Well yeah, the idea that losing is some kind of exclusively English trait is ludicrous. Look at, say, Australia to choose a completely random example.

The persistent belief that we're not very good at things we're actually quite decent at is more of a national characteristic


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

easing themselves back in (batters, bowlers, blinking-all-rest-of-em-???)


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

Shut up, Ricky.


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

Oh, you massive twat. Leave the umpire alone.


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

What the fuck is Ponting doing now? Fine him, suspend him, end his fucking career for him. He does this ALL the time and never gets pulled up for it


----------



## strung out (Dec 27, 2010)

fuck off ponting


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

very disappointing behaviour from the hobbits tbf.


----------



## strung out (Dec 27, 2010)

this is hilarious tbf


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

fuck off, he's had a go at KP now for not walking after completely missing the ball


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Fantastic


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Barmy Army singing 'you're getting sacked in the morning' at Ponting


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

What the fuck could he say? 'Oh, you may have your video replays and hot spot, but my wicket-keeper reckons Pietersen hit it, even though the bowler didn't even appeal. On that basis I demand you overturn the decision.'


----------



## yardbird (Dec 27, 2010)

Not acceptable.
Ponting thinks it's football ffs


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

50 for KP. In your face Ponting you complete dick


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

perhaps?


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Santino said:


> What the fuck could he say? 'Oh, you may have your video replays and hot spot, but my wicket-keeper reckons Pietersen hit it, even though the bowler didn't even appeal. On that basis I demand you overturn the decision.'


 
As everyone knows, all Australian wicket keepers tell the truth always and aren't massive cheats in any way whatsoever. So basically, it was out


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Apparently Warne's criticising the booing of Ponting. Another massive twat who thinks fans can't see when someone's fucking around with the spirit of the game they like to tell everyone their country is sworn to defend against all these other nations who cheat.

Fuck. Off.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

that was a beautiful bit of commentrary from michael holding


----------



## JimW (Dec 27, 2010)

See how technology conspires against the noble Ricky


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

ponting
utter fucking cunt
fact

and sacked in the morning


----------



## JimW (Dec 27, 2010)

All the Aussie fans failing to watch has made my web stream a lot less choppy, so cheers for that ye faithless of the Antipodes


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

English batsmen all being generous and getting out before they overtake the Australian total


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

argh!!!


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

That was worth a review, Kevin, just for the chance to see Ponting's face if you were let off.


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Boycott yesterday morning:



> "I'm very disappointed with what I've seen this morning...
> England have put them in, it can only be to play for a draw, there's nothing in this pitch that says you should get bowled out - it's slow, slow as old boots... turgid. ...
> "A draw will do this Test. I can't see how England are going to win this, I really can't, even at this stage -"
> [Aggers: We've only had 12 minutes"]
> "Yep, well, I'm supposed to know what I'm talking about, that's why I'm an expert. that's why you do commentary, and I can't see any way. This looks flat, nothingness..."


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

kev tokk one (photo opp) for the team there....


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

To be fair to Australia, most of their bowlers are firing. One at a time. Over a period of weeks.


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Santino said:


> To be fair to Australia, most of their bowlers are firing. One at a time. Over a period of weeks.


 
They should play nine bowlers at Sydney to maximise their chances of finding one in form. Watson and Hussey opening, Haddin at three.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> They should play nine bowlers at Sydney to maximise their chances of finding one in form. Watson and Hussey opening, Haddin at three.


9 bowlers. And a sniper....


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

Santino said:


> To be fair to Australia, most of their bowlers are firing. One at a time. Over a period of weeks.


 
LOL!


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> They should play nine bowlers at Sydney to maximise their chances of finding one in form. Watson and Hussey opening, Haddin at three.


 




Santino said:


> Watson and Hussey to open the batting, Haddin at 3, then play 8 bowlers.


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

That's close. In I say


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

Go on, Ricky, have a word...


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

No need for the third umpire, just get me to do it


----------



## JimW (Dec 27, 2010)

In by a mile


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

absolute epic dive!
(they rarely say such things in football!)


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

This is embarrassing. 4 down and we're not even 200 ahead yet


----------



## JimW (Dec 27, 2010)

Colly you mad fucker


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

massive scalp gone

what on earth was that shot?!

absolutely ridiculous, from such an experienced player!!


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

14 wickets, 13 caught, all of them behind square


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Red Faction said:


> massive scalp gone
> 
> what on earth was that shot?!
> 
> absolutely ridiculous, from such an experienced player!!


 
Nah, he's always a bit of a div when there's no pressure on the innings


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> 14 wickets, 13 caught, all of them behind square


 
14 catches behind square...


----------



## JimW (Dec 27, 2010)

Well taken down low. It's Siddle v England!


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

this is annoying, shit shots from Colly and Bell, no need. We need to be grinding them into the dirt but Trott is the only one who seems to have got the idea


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

BELLY?!?!?!
Bell-end more like!


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Colly and Bell had to gift Mitch their wickets to keep him in the side. Short, wide, shit


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

we've now trebled the Australian total for five down


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

what a totally fucking bizarre shot for belly to play!!
absolutely bizarre


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

It's 4am and I've stayed up to watch Jonathon Trott bat. What am I doing with my life? 

Mind you, that was the best referral in the world ever

Edit: ah, Dar referred the decision himself because he thought it may have been a no ball


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> It's 4am and I've stayed up to watch Jonathon Trott bat. What am I doing with my life?
> 
> Mind you, that was the best referral in the world ever
> 
> Edit: ah, Dar referred the decision himself because he thought it may have been a no ball


 
Back in the seventies when there was no sky tv and tms never broadcast from aus we just started to get the abc commentary from aus via the bbc the only other news was the newspapers ,which was severly delayed


----------



## JimW (Dec 27, 2010)

Ouch


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Aussie cameramen during this series are shite, English coverage never loses the ball as much as this


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Apparently Mark Taylor on Channel 9 has just said he's starting to get worried about the size of England's lead. Fuck me, nothing gets past him


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Smith is such a great bowler, Ponting now prefers to bowl Michael Clarke


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

Great fucking drop!! 101!!!


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

there we go then, 1 Trott is better than 11 Australians


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 27, 2010)

Well done trotty is was an hard won century


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Prior's going to get bored out any minute, this defensive field is frustrating him big time. Not that it matters anyway, we're miles ahead and Australia have precisely zero ideas here


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 27, 2010)

Richie benaud is doing the commentary on the feed i am watching compared to the other commentator he is as honesty as always regard the match play


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

benaud is a legend
should have declared the day he left TMS a day of national mourning


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

we have quadrupled their total


----------



## Red Faction (Dec 27, 2010)

TMS reckons we'll finish at 7am

very bizarre listening to TMS commentary just ahead of the sky TV footage

400-5

AWESOME!


----------



## Dan U (Dec 27, 2010)

Just got home from buying clothes for my Aussie wedding celebration to get the last few overs, heard from my mate at the G and said it was cracking. Gutted I couldn't go today but my Mrs would have killed me.. 

Great performance again England, can't wait to go back tomorrow

Made my holiday this has.


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

right,get up to 600 before declaring please, we have all the time in the world

night all


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 27, 2010)

Red Faction said:


> benaud is a legend
> should have declared the day he left TMS a day of national mourning


 
He didn't leave TMS, he was a TV commentator.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

fell asleep on the couch 

(me, not benaud obv)


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> right,get up to 600 before declaring please, we have all the time in the world
> 
> night all


 probably got enough now tbh.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Ricky fined 40% of match fee. Gatting says:

Ponting wrong to question umpires - Gatting


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

@Santino: Probably. However, with three days left we have plenty of time and we can make absolutely sure that we only have to bat once whilst still giving ourselves at least seven sessions to bowl them out. It always frustrates me just how quickly some people want to jump on the declaration bandwagon. If we were a day further on it would make sense but right now it doesn't.

Also:

Trott's Ashes average - 96.33
Bradman's - 89.78


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Ricky fined 40% of match fee. Gatting says:
> 
> Ponting wrong to question umpires - Gatting


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Ricky fined 40% of match fee.


 
Piss weak match refereeing

South Africa 131 all out v India at Durban. The Indians have finally turned up to the series it would seem


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 27, 2010)

embree said:


> @Santino: Probably. However, with three days left we have plenty of time and we can make absolutely sure that we only have to bat once whilst still giving ourselves at least seven sessions to bowl them out. It always frustrates me just how quickly some people want to jump on the declaration bandwagon. If we were a day further on it would make sense but right now it doesn't.
> 
> Also:
> 
> ...


Not saying we should declare, just that we've probably got enough runs to win both of the remaining tests as it is, with how the aussies are batting


----------



## embree (Dec 27, 2010)

Lo Siento. said:


> Not saying we should declare, just that we've probably got enough runs to win both of the remaining tests as it is, with how the aussies are batting


 
of course  I believe in grinding them into the dirt though if you can, demoralisation of the opposition plays a big role in getting them cheaply second time around and can carry over into the next game (though not always, see Perth)

Mike Selvey reckons Johnson and Hilfenhaus were getting a little reverse out there, which is great news for us


----------



## Idaho (Dec 27, 2010)

Ideally we set them a target of 600 with 2 days to do it. But really, unless we blow it or they do something miraculous, it's all gravy. If we are all out tomorrow morning and they have 3 days to get 400 and make us bat again, is that really such a bad result either?If I was Australia, the best I would be hoping for would be to only have to bat out for 2 days.

ETA: The perfect situation would be to declare on 600+ tomorrow a little after tea and make them bat an awkward half session.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 27, 2010)

I really want to see our tail end bat as responsibly as the others (apart the Sherminator and Colly) just to rub it in further to the Ozzie top order.

DO NOT DECLARE.

Ozzies usually do rubbish in dead rubbers so it's looking 3-1


----------



## gabi (Dec 27, 2010)

Shame to see the Aussies in this state. Reminds me of when the windies lost their mojo. As a cricket lover I'd rather see a strong Aussie setup. Maybe they should put some adverts in some saffa newspapers.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Shame to see the Aussies in this state. .


 
No it isn't.


----------



## agricola (Dec 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Shame to see the Aussies in this state. Reminds me of when the windies lost their mojo. As a cricket lover I'd rather see a strong Aussie setup. Maybe they should put some adverts in some saffa newspapers.


 
It was a shame to see the decline of West Indian cricket (especially because it looks increasingly terminal), but the antics of that other lot over the past twenty years do make it very hard not to feel a great sense of joy watching their team go tits up in such a spectacular fashion.  Watching Ponting go even more mental than he did when Pratt ran him out, and with absolutely fuck all justification, is surely the funniest moment in cricket this year, if not sport as a whole.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 27, 2010)

agricola said:


> It was a shame to see the decline of West Indian cricket (especially because it looks increasingly terminal), but the antics of that other lot over the past twenty years do make it very hard not to feel a great sense of joy watching their team go tits up in such a spectacular fashion.  Watching Ponting go even more mental than he did when Pratt ran him out, and with absolutely fuck all justification, is surely the funniest moment in cricket this year, if not sport as a whole.


 
This.


----------



## tarannau (Dec 27, 2010)

Fuck any sympathy for Australian cricketers - a consistently dislikeable bunch of graceless larrikins. I'm not shedding a single tear

I'll always think fondly of the great West Indian sides of the past, but it's fair to say that - barring some miracle - the days of the Windies as a major cricketing force are over. The best Caribbean sportsmen are now drawn to greater riches elsewhere, which given the selfish incompetency of the board and structure of the game isn't much of a surprise.

At least you can see West Indian sportsmen doing well elswhere and punching well over their weight in medals tables in the Olympics and beyond. Australia's proud sporting reputation seems to be increasingly in tatters. Even the poms are beating them up at cricket, swimming and proper international rugby. Frankly they're turning into a right bunch of jessies


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Foot on their neck and push down. Simple


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

England in strong position but Australia fighting back

Tell it like it is.


----------



## rekil (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Ricky fined 40% of match fee. Gatting says:
> 
> Ponting wrong to question umpires - Gatting


 Captained the 1990 England side in South Africa too the saucy fecker.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Thank you Malcolm Marshall.


----------



## Idaho (Dec 27, 2010)

agricola said:


> It was a shame to see the decline of West Indian cricket (especially because it looks increasingly terminal), but the antics of that other lot over the past twenty years do make it very hard not to feel a great sense of joy watching their team go tits up in such a spectacular fashion.  Watching Ponting go even more mental than he did when Pratt ran him out, and with absolutely fuck all justification, is surely the funniest moment in cricket this year, if not sport as a whole.


 
I want Australia, and the West Indies to recover their greatness. But the decline of the West Indies has no silver lining of pleasure. The Australians have always been obnoxious in victory and defeat.


----------



## gabi (Dec 27, 2010)

Australias decline is bad for cricket. For test cricket. That's undeniable. I don't think we will be seeing 100k turning up at the mcg next time.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Australias decline is bad for cricket. For test cricket. That's undeniable. I don't think we will be seeing 100k turning up at the mcg next time.


 
They should try supporting their team rather than just turning up just because they're winning. You never saw english grounds empty just cause Austrailia were so much better.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Foot on their neck and push down. Simple


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 27, 2010)

Aussie fans can kiss my ass and eat the shit from it.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Aussie fans can kiss my ass and eat the shit from it.


 
Blimey. Um...


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 27, 2010)

^^this


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 27, 2010)

i mean, the bit about aussies eating some poo. twats.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 27, 2010)

gabi said:


> Australias decline is bad for cricket. For test cricket. That's undeniable. I don't think we will be seeing 100k turning up at the mcg next time.


Teams come and go, this will be enough to  shake out any complacency.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> Teams come and go, this will be enough to  shake out any complacency.


 
What, they'll suddenly develop loads of young first class players?


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> What, they'll suddenly develop loads of young first class players?


well we may have next time the urn is in contention,dont get too cocky boys.Just remember,history is a good teacher.That little fucker(or its subsitute) has spent more time in our trophy cupboard than yours.Also this will be only two series in a row,fuck all to the 5 series in a row australia has recorded.

eta just for the record i hope Ponting gets the arse for the next test and for evermore.Never liked the smart arse cunt but yesterdays display was disgraceful,openly disputing an umpires decision should be a bannable offence


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

In two years? You won't. You might have people like Smith a but more test-blooded, bit you have nothing  meanwhile - hence that panic across the board. That you'll recognise this and do something about it doesn't speed it up...you're gone for a few years...


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> In two years? You won't. You might have people like Smith a but more test-blooded, bit you have nothing  meanwhile - hence that panic across the board. That you'll recognise this and do something about it doesn't speed it up...you're gone for a few years...


 
our main problem is we are only picking Victorians or New South Welshmen,i think 9 out of the last test incusions have come from either state.Selectors have to widen their arc.Our next test series is agin Sri Lanka,they will probably belt us too


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 27, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> our main problem is we are only picking Victorians or New South Welshmen,i think 9 out of the last test incusions have come from either state.Selectors have to widen their arc.Our next test series is agin Sri Lanka,they will probably belt us too


Isnt that about 70-80% of the population, all you have otherwise is Queenland and the outback.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Can't do much worse.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> What, they'll suddenly develop loads of young first class players?


 
How did you get that from my post?


----------



## Dan U (Dec 27, 2010)

It's a lovely day in Melbourne, i've woken up to a Pom on the radio talking about the superiority of the London Oyster system to its Victorian equivalent, its just not going for the Aussies at the mo.

off to the G in a bit to see England retain The Ashes.


----------



## Athos (Dec 27, 2010)

I fucking love sticking it to the Aussies. I hope we absolutely crush them; bat all day, and declare a hour before close of play, then snatch a couple of big wickets. If we really hammer them in this one, I reckon we'll win the last test, too.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

> Teams come and go, this will be enough to shake out any complacency.



Thought that's what you meant. Sorry if not. Happy to modify as you clarify.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Dan U said:


> It's a lovely day in Melbourne, i've woken up to a Pom on the radio talking about the superiority of the London Oyster system to its Victorian equivalent, its just not going for the Aussies at the mo.
> 
> off to the G in a bit to see England retain The Ashes.


 
You lucky fecker. Enjoy yourself


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Thought that's what you meant. Sorry if not. Happy to modify as you clarify.


What in my post was about suddenly developing loads of young first class players?. 

They don't have them because they got complacent - this could shake them out of it.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

sleaterkinney said:


> What in my post was about suddenly developing loads of young first class players?.
> 
> They don't have them because they got complacent - this could shake them out of it.


 The idea that these are old players, we just need to turn to the the young players now we've had our shock. Carry on.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 27, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> The idea that these are old players, we just need to turn to the the young players now we've had our shock.


Never suggested it was as simple as that. But also I don't think those players are as bad as they've played in this series.



butchersapron said:


> Carry on.


 Will do.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Think we'll only do 150 more


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 27, 2010)

Enjoy your day btw dan!


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

A lead of more than 500 after the first innings is a bit self-indulgent anyway.


----------



## Santino (Dec 27, 2010)

A Sky graphic says that Ponting has been done by the ICC 7 times, by the way.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 27, 2010)

Prior's out.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 27, 2010)

Santino said:


> A lead of more than 500 after the first innings is a bit self-indulgent anyway.


 
They won't get to that, 520 - 550 maybe which is still a huge lead.


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

I liked this characterisation of Trott on cricinfo:



> Some batsmen specialise in the counterattack, others major in attrition. Jonathan Trott, however, nestles into another comfortable and entirely enclosed genre, that of the specialist bloodletter. Like a medieval physician faced with a case of apoplexy, Trott draws his scalpel across the artery, and drains all tension from the situation until the patient is totally becalmed.


----------



## pennimania (Dec 28, 2010)

Dan U said:


> It's a lovely day in Melbourne, i've woken up to a Pom on the radio talking about the superiority of the London Oyster system to its Victorian equivalent, its just not going for the Aussies at the mo.
> 
> off to the G in a bit to see England retain The Ashes.


 
I'm jealous too - just said to mr mania how much I'd love to watch a test match in Australia - he just said 'you'd be on your own' 

One day I shall do it !


----------



## newharper (Dec 28, 2010)

What's this guy on




> TMS can indeed cause bizarre dreams. I was toiling away late last night on some poetry of Catullus with TMS in the background. I awoke at 4.30am, head on desk, after a delightful dream including a chorus of Latin poets dancing to the National Anthem, all of whom were wielding cricket bats, each of which had the face of Ricky Ponting engraved on the back!"


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

a_chap said:


> Prior's out.


 
No he's not.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

456-6 is a nice looking score


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

newharper said:


> What's this guy on


 
Only people in cheap sitcoms have such knowingly surreal dreams like that.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Santino said:


> Only people in cheap sitcoms have such knowingly surreal dreams like that.


 
Such tastefully arranged dreams. The horror he's hiding behind that tale. No thanks.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

pennimania said:


> I'm jealous too - just said to mr mania how much I'd love to watch a test match in Australia - he just said 'you'd be on your own'
> 
> One day I shall do it !


it's a real pity. her dad was gonna go down under with uncle ern but then his kidneys have packed up and he's on dialysis and so he decided not to take the chance. i was all for encouraging him, but i could also see why caution was something to consider.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> No he's not.


 
Eh?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

***


----------



## a_chap (Dec 28, 2010)

Bresnan's out. Oh no - a collapse!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

good position to collapse from tho...


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

I see the unacceptable face of Australian cricket has five wickets


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

They're sowing their own doom, get us out when it's moving. Go on .


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

embree said:


> I see the unacceptable face of Australian cricket has five wickets


 
Weird as anything. He nearly won them the first test, and now he has another five-for, despite being awful! And, as keeps being pointed out, he took the other two catches.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 28, 2010)

Trott's 150 is up.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> They're sowing their own doom, get us out when it's moving. Go on .


 
This pitch is expected to get worse though, isn't it? As in, like a normal pitch. I take your point about clouds, but there will always be clouds in Melbourne anyway. 
I know you were being a bit ironic. I'm being a bit too literal because I've had a drink. 150 Trott.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Dec 28, 2010)

chin music


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Kaye said:


> Weird as anything. He nearly won them the first test, and now he has another five-for, despite being awful! And, as keeps being pointed out, he took the other two catches.


 
He is, nevertheless, the unacceptable face of their cricket. Should be made to wear a paper bag over his head


----------



## two sheds (Dec 28, 2010)

From Guardian coverage: 

"Loving the comment from Warne  about one of the reasons that Ponting lost it yesterday was because  Pietersen had told him he'd nicked it!" guffaws Phil Russell. "Not  withstanding the revelation that Pietersen has an impressively wicked  sense of humour that I wouldn't have credited him with, this also opens  up a whole new game of bluff/double bluff as an unintended consequence  of the UDRS along this lines of: Bowler/Keeper: Howzat! Umpire: Not out  Captain: What do you reckon lads, worth an appeal? Batsman: Yeah you  probably want to, I nicked that one for sure..."

and 

"I was keeping this," writes Mike Selvey. "But as Warne  appears to be talking about it, I can tell you that KP told the  Australians he hit it yesterday but actually did not. it was a great  wind up." 


tee hee


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

That is funny. I like it


----------



## pennimania (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> They're sowing their own doom, get us out when it's moving. Go on .


 
so you reckon they won't bother to declare?

i always love a swashbuckling declaration but it _is_ the Ashes.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

Kaye said:


> This pitch is expected to get worse though, isn't it? As in, like a normal pitch. I take your point about clouds, but there will always be clouds in Melbourne anyway.
> I know you were being a bit ironic. I'm being a bit too literal because I've had a drink. 150 Trott.


 
Just noticed it's not cloudy at all.


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 28, 2010)

Kaye said:


> This pitch is expected to get worse though, isn't it? As in, like a normal pitch. I take your point about clouds, but there will always be clouds in Melbourne anyway.
> I know you were being a bit ironic. I'm being a bit too literal because I've had a drink. 150 Trott.


 
It,s more enjoyable when you have had tinny


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Trott's 160 means that he will finish this match with the second highest Test average in history assuming he doesn't have to bat again


----------



## a_chap (Dec 28, 2010)

England lead by 400 now


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Where's mich going today. Might he do 2 overs?


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Where's mich going today. Might he do 2 overs?


 
His last 2 overs have cost 20 runs.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Santino said:


> His last 2 overs have cost 20 runs.


 
I suppose when you're as far behind as aus runs don't really matter anymore ...

Are they taking him off?


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

embree said:


> Trott's 160 means that he will finish this match with the second highest Test average in history assuming he doesn't have to bat again


good of the saffa's to help out eh?


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> good of the saffa's to help out eh?


 
The more things like this are said, the less I care


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

It was good enough for Dolly.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

embree said:


> The more things like this are said, the less I care


shall i have another drink, do you think?

do you care about that?


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2010)

Heh, spotted that gap


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

98 all out is a bit shit though. At the MCG. On Boxing day.


----------



## pennimania (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> 98 all out is a bit shit though. At the MCG. On Boxing day.


 
innit


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

haha!


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> 98 all out is a bit shit though. At the MCG. On Boxing day.


 
I believe the favoured term is 'ordinary'


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

If Harris doesn't come back for Syney, they will need to find a bowler who doesn't leak runs like a broken water main that's filled with runs instead of water.


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

embree said:


> I believe the favoured term is 'ordinary'


 
The beauties of English.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

Santino said:


> The beauties of English.


_tie_ and _draw_?!


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

Ha ha Hilfenhaus gets his third wicket...

...of the series!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 28, 2010)

Damn - now Swann's out


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

2-1?


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2010)

Bit too derring-do from Swann there


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

fuck me, the German's got a wicket. He draws level with XDo for the series


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> 2-1?


you offering odds for an aussie fightback?


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 28, 2010)

what odds on finishing this test match today?


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

This the first time since 1928/9 that England have passed 500 three times in an Ashes series


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

Chris Tremlett went to the same sixth form college as Chris Packham, the BBC bird expert.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Santino said:


> Chris Tremlett went to the same sixth form college as Chris Packham, the BBC bird expert.


 
Fact of the series


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

what odds the aussies are feeling sicker than a kangaroo on a whirling waltzer mate???? :d


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

Hilfenwho got Tremlett.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 28, 2010)

Tremlett's gone.


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2010)

Oops


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

Lo Siento. said:


> what odds on finishing this test match today?


 
Unlikely. But I reckon I'd give 5/2.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Ball's reversing


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Reverse swing - hello!


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

Trott weighing up whether to protect his average or go for the 200. He's not exactly a dasher is he? 1500 Test runs and not one 6.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 28, 2010)

Is there much psychological difference between declaring and being bowled out, on either side? Just thinking if Australia can bowl us out they'll at least have some sense of achievement, whereas if we don't evengive them the chance...


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

Yeah, the momentum is swinging their way after they 'restrict' England to a lead of 415.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

Santino said:


> Trott weighing up whether to protect his average or go for the 200. He's not exactly a dasher is he? 1500 Test runs and not one 6.


 
I don't think going for a 6 is ever sensible in this form of cricket (obviously chasing a total excepted).

6 for Siddle; that's dreadful for the rest of the Aussie bowlers.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 28, 2010)

Anderson's gone now


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Is there much psychological difference between declaring and being bowled out, on either side? Just thinking if Australia can bowl us out they'll at least have some sense of achievement, whereas if we don't evengive them the chance...


 
This is a joke, yes?


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2010)

Aaaaaned we're done. And so will they be by close today, let's hope.


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

Highest Ashes lead ever after batting second.


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 28, 2010)

Early lunch now .lets see how we do with ball


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Here we come.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

We can win this tonight


----------



## a_chap (Dec 28, 2010)

Kaye said:


> This is a joke, yes?


 
Boycott was saying something similar on TMS*;* that Aus taking wickets to bowl England out will give them (the Aussies) a positive boost.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Is there much psychological difference between declaring and being bowled out, on either side? Just thinking if Australia can bowl us out they'll at least have some sense of achievement, whereas if we don't evengive them the chance...


 
Not when we broke 500 yet again and lead by over 400, no


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

embree said:


> We can win this tonight


 
It's moving. They've got no bottle. Yep. We can.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 28, 2010)

Kaye said:


> Unlikely. But I reckon I'd give 5/2.


 
60 overs to bowl today, no? Took 42.5 on day one


----------



## pennimania (Dec 28, 2010)

Santino said:


> Trott weighing up whether to protect his average or go for the 200. He's not exactly a dasher is he? 1500 Test runs and not one 6.



it worked for Boycott


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

Kaye said:


> I don't think going for a 6 is ever sensible in this form of cricket (obviously chasing a total excepted).


 
The game would be much poorer if batsmen didn't go for sixes. Would KP's 158 at the Oval in 2005 have had the same impact without 7 sixes? It says something to the bowler. It says 'Don't bother mate, you're shit.' It says 'I don't care if you're the leading wicket-taker in the world, I've just reverse swept you for six.'


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 28, 2010)

Kaye said:


> This is a joke, yes?


Well I didn't mean in this specific instance (rather academic now ), but just in general. I dunno, I suppose it's obvious, but I don't follow cricket much so I wondered if there were subtle arts of... whatever.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

i'd rather be a kiwi than a con, etc etc


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 28, 2010)

a_chap said:


> Boycott was saying something similar on TMS*;* that Aus taking wickets to bowl England out will give them (the Aussies) a positive boost.


 
Boyc's declared we were going to lose this test after 12 minutes. Obviously got a bee in his bonnet about something.


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

a_chap said:


> Boycott was saying something similar on TMS*;* that Aus taking wickets to bowl England out will give them (the Aussies) a positive boost.


 
The same Boycott who wrote off England's chances of winning this match after 12 minutes?


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> i'd rather be a kiwi than a con, etc etc


 
Paulie, my mum  had a great laugh at your pic on the ugly mug thread.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 28, 2010)

a_chap said:


> Boycott was saying something similar on TMS*;* that Aus taking wickets to bowl England out will give them (the Aussies) a positive boost.


I win!


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Lo Siento. said:


> Boyc's declared we were going to lose this test after 12 minutes. Obviously got a bee in his bonnet about something.


 
He ain't wrong yet.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 28, 2010)

Santino said:


> The same Boycott who wrote off England's chances of winning this match after 12 minutes?


 
I heard that and thought it was odd at the time. So he's not always right. Me, I wouldn't argue with him.


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

Let's have one of these:


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

And one of these:


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> Well I didn't mean in this specific instance (rather academic now ), but just in general. I dunno, I suppose it's obvious, but I don't follow cricket much so I wondered if there were subtle arts of... whatever.


 
Valid; there are a large number of declarations with 8 or 9 down. I often think they're because of the waste of time sending someone in for almost no runs, but I have heard Boycott (OK, I've read what was said) talk about the impact of a declaration.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Paulie, my mum  had a great laugh at your pic on the ugly mug thread.




great!!!

(which one??? )


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 28, 2010)

Kaye said:


> Valid; there are a large number of declarations with 8 or 9 down. I often think they're because of the waste of time sending someone in for almost no runs, but I have heard Boycott (OK, I've read what was said) talk about the impact of a declaration.


 
it's definitely valid. If you've got numbers 10 and 11 in, it's a waste of time for them to scratch about adding a few paltry runs when you've already got a bit lead. If the other team bowls you out they go off having just got 10 wickets and they feel alright about themselves.

On the other hand when  you're leading by 415 runs the comfort is gonna pretty meagre, I should imagine.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

I think in these specific circumstances, the argument is irrelevant


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> great!!!
> 
> (which one??? )


 

The quite mad one recently, done a by a webcam - 'me 30 secs ago'


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> The quite mad one recently, done a by a webcam - 'me 30 secs ago'


yes, just went and found it 

time for one more tea-time rum and then bed i reckon. bring on the aussies.,


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

They've got near 20 without loss. Crisis.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 28, 2010)

49 for no loss. I'm off to bed so that the wickets can start to fall.


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

Stumped


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Gone, off you go


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Watch 'em tumble now,. Well done a_chap


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Run out when you still trail by 350 runs in your second innings. That's very sensible


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Here we go


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Was Watson trying to save Hughes' Test career by running him out before he got the chance to get himself out?


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

embree said:


> Was Watson trying to save Hughes' Test career by running him out before he got the chance to get himself out?


 
He was showing Anderson how to really support your teammates.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Anyway, wake up everyone, Ponting's last test innings in progress


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

embree said:


> Anyway, wake up everyone, Ponting's last test innings in progress


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Australia had one of their top three run out in the decisive innings of 1986/87, 2005 and 2009


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

That one shaped in after Ponting left it didn't it?


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

Fuck me; I missed it as I was feeding the baby. It sounded flat (the stream stopped; I was listening to R5LSX with Boycott saying it's so flat they should score 1950 runs) and I assumed I was coming back to nothing - and Ponting is in!!


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Harris has a stress fracture - only nine wickets needed to win?


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

embree said:


> Harris has a stress fracture - only nine wickets needed to win?


 
No way he doesn't bat though.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Kaye said:


> No way he doesn't bat though.


 
Well he hasn't batted so far so I doubt it'll make any difference either way


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

No point in him coming out if Australia are still 200 or 300 behind with days of play remaining.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

Santino said:


> No point in him coming out if Australia are still 200 or 300 behind with days of play remaining.


 
In the Ashes, a batsmen with a broken leg would have a go, wouldn't they? I like the romantic notion that the answer is yes.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Either way he won't be at Sydney, so they'll have to find someone else who isn't quite as good as their current stellar attack


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

It's a wide field. All sorts of options open up.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Jimmy's getting it swinging


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Shane Warne writing a message in the sky to, well, could be anyone really

Or is it Nigel Farage?


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

embree said:


> Either way he won't be at Sydney, so they'll have to find someone else who isn't quite as good as their current stellar attack


 
If Sydney matters (beyond the difference of retaining/ winning) we have real problems.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Its Johnathon king raping boys which i didn't see.

I'll take one more down at stumps.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Yeah, keep leaving those Rickey


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

embree said:


> Yeah, keep leaving those Rickey


 
Quite


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

Ponting has passed 100 runs for the series.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Its Johnathon king raping boys which i didn't see.


 
Seriously? That's one of the most embarrassing things I've ever read. For the reference of anyone, this is BA trying to get the upper hand on me because I once worked for Jonathan King, and I just made him feel like an idiot on pm. Anyway, I am/ was flimsier. Happy to carry on contributing like I have been. Happy to be fucked off as well. You know how it goes. However, can we get on with the cricket please?


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

I'd rather he just called me a cunt or something, but he maybe thinks that is more hard hitting.


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

"I'm so angry that you posted some things 5 or 6 years ago that I'm going to post an obscure reference to someone you once worked for and, this is serious "I will grass you up in the morning"" (the latter quote is real).


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

95/1 is not as intrusive as I would have wanted (despite about 8 appeals), but my daughter is sleeping, hence I'm about to start sleeping!!


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

It wasn't like it wasn't over, but it's over! Good wicket.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

every time I doze off, we get a wicket today. I shall continue


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 28, 2010)

Am watching this just not posting, 8 wickets to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 28, 2010)

fuckin hell didn't realise it was 4:40am!!!!!


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Am watching this just not posting, 8 wickets to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Like


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2010)

Came back just in time for Watson. It's a civilised just coming up to one in the afty here.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 28, 2010)

fucking BOWLED HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

fuck off Ponting. Career over

Seven to go


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Ponting was all over the place with that. He's gone in more ways than one


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2010)

Ho ho ho.


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2010)

My stream's died in sympathy with Aus cricket


----------



## Kaye (Dec 28, 2010)

How upset did Punter look?


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

He looks utterly fed up.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 28, 2010)

HAHAHAAHA 6 to go!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Woooooooooooooooo!

Six to go!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 28, 2010)

and its hussey!


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2010)

And Hussey. All over bar the shouting


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Bresnan 3/15 off 11

I'm sorry I doubted him


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

A few more in reasonable time and I really do think we'll only need nine wickets. They won't send Harris out if they're miles off saving the game


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Off you trot Clarke. Follow your leader


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

And back you march too Mr shit batsman and worse leggie


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Prepare for retention just after midnight tonight. Enjoy


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

Australia's heaviest ever home defeats:

Innings & 230 runs v England at Adelaide 1892
Innings & 225 runs v England at Melbourne 1912

246 runs behind at the moment, they still have something to play for


----------



## Balbi (Dec 28, 2010)




----------



## Balbi (Dec 28, 2010)




----------



## shagnasty (Dec 28, 2010)

yes it looks like it is all over now


----------



## Balbi (Dec 28, 2010)

Ta ra Punter!


----------



## a_chap (Dec 28, 2010)

Glad to see my going to bed had the inevitable effect of starting the rout


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 28, 2010)

Balbi said:


>


 
That is probablly his last time at the wicket for aus.Iknow there have been some harsh words but still it is the passing of a great player


----------



## killer b (Dec 28, 2010)

are any australians going to turn up tomorrow?


----------



## strung out (Dec 28, 2010)

best bit of the interviews at the end of the day...

mike atherton: shane, is there any way back for australia tomorrow?
shane watson: ...


----------



## strung out (Dec 28, 2010)

killer b said:


> are any australians going to turn up tomorrow?


 
are we talking players or specators? i predict neither.


----------



## killer b (Dec 28, 2010)

spectators. the players still have that elusive 'worst home loss ever' title to chase...


----------



## Idaho (Dec 28, 2010)

strung out said:


> best bit of the interviews at the end of the day...
> 
> mike atherton: shane, is there any way back for australia tomorrow?
> shane watson: ...


He was asked why the English bowlers could get the ball to swing and threw Aussies couldn't and he gave a bullshit answer about England being lucky with the conditions.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Good session to fall asleep for


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

Aus paper suggesting Harris's injury is the end for him.


----------



## Athos (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Aus paper suggesting Harris's injury is the end for him.


 
It's a shame when anyone's career is cut short by injury - even an Aussie.

On the other hand, Ponting has had long enough; so I hope we crush them in this and the next test, and the twat gets his marching orders.

I dislike him almost as much as I disliked Hayden. The best thing about being at the fifth day of the final test in the home series before last (possibly the greatest moment for English cricket since 1981) was barracking him until he gave me the finger.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 28, 2010)

I was actually hoping Australia would put up a fight in the second innings. It was beyond them, it seems.

Feel for Ponting. Still banging on about Pietersen being out a day later shows that his ability to think rationally has deserted him. It's a very unforgiving time and place to lose it. I've always liked him.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 28, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I was actually hoping Australia would put up a fight in the second innings. It was beyond them, it seems.
> 
> Feel for Ponting. Still banging on about Pietersen being out a day later shows that his ability to think rationally has deserted him. It's a very unforgiving time and place to lose it. I've always liked him.


 Foot on the neck and push down.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 28, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Foot on the neck and push down.


 
It would be unsporting to do anything else, naturally.

But one can feel sorry for one's hapless victim.


----------



## Santino (Dec 28, 2010)

March him into the woods carrying a spade.


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 28, 2010)

its a great day to be an irishman


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> its a great day to be an irishman


 
that made me laugh, nice one


----------



## newharper (Dec 28, 2010)

shagnasty said:


> That is probablly his last time at the wicket for aus.Iknow there have been some harsh words but still it is the passing of a great player



Great player. They should let him lead the team out for the fifth test. OK, after that it's probably time. 

Though the concept of Aussies and dignity does not compute.

My brother and his children are Australian.


----------



## a_chap (Dec 28, 2010)

newharper said:


> Great player. They should let him lead the team out for the fifth test. OK, after that it's probably time.



Let him lead the team out for the fifth Test Match and then have him executed in the middle of the square. A pretty heroic way to leave the Test arena wouldn't you say?

Failing that, have him sign a book deal and recieve an imorally large advance cheque. Then he could rise up to the heavens as a true Australian Messiah.

Just a thought*

*Thoughts currently moderated by alcohol.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 28, 2010)

If there is no punter is the door open for Hauritz?


----------



## strung out (Dec 28, 2010)

with harris out, i wouldn't be surprised to see hauritz come back in anyway on his home ground. not a cert, but certainly a possibility.


----------



## embree (Dec 28, 2010)

strung out said:


> with harris out, i wouldn't be surprised to see hauritz come back in anyway on his home ground. not a cert, but certainly a possibility.


 
What, pick the best spinner in Australia with two recent Shield centuries to his name? Controversial...

How's Chris Rogers these days? Surely a candidate to open. David Hussey & Cameron White seem worth a try in the middle order too.

Not that I'm suggesting they should, I'm more than happy to see Hughes, Smith & co carry on 

Edit: and Khawaja obv


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 28, 2010)

think D Hussey's too old,Khawaja,Callum Ferguson,Marsh,White and Hauritz have to come in pretty soon.We need youth.Get rid of Ponting,Clarke and Hussey,kick Johnsons arse to wake the big headed cunt up,Harris is fucked so fuck him off too.God,the list seems endless


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 28, 2010)

David Hussey's got a brilliant first class record. I don't quite understand why he's never played test cricket. He's 33, so he could have two or three good years in him. I'd have picked him ages ago.


----------



## strung out (Dec 28, 2010)

i'm guessing he was in his 'prime' over the last 10 years when other players had cememented their places in the side. unfortunately, as the current squad falls apart, he's probably considered too old to break through. i say unfortunately, it's actually hilarious of course.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 28, 2010)

3 to go!


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 28, 2010)

whoop. 2 more, and we keep the urn. 2 innings victories over aus in the same series?


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2010)

Just got the stream up in time to see Johnson talking the long walk


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 28, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> 3 to go!


 
I'm presuming Harris is on crutches, and isn't going to bat.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 28, 2010)

Oh yeh, forgot about Harris.


----------



## pennimania (Dec 28, 2010)

I'm listening on a very slow internet connection in a hotel in Fort William - but hell, am I enjoying it


----------



## JimW (Dec 28, 2010)

Siddle to continue his one-man resistance campaign?


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 29, 2010)

Drinking in TMS like a fine wine. Cheers Andrews!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 29, 2010)

Dennis Lillee!

*Sorry, that will mean nothing if you're not watching the Aussie TV.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 29, 2010)

tick... tock... tick... tock...

it's only a matter of time


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 29, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Dennis Lillee!
> 
> *Sorry, that will mean nothing if you're not watching the Aussie TV.


 
I thought it was either lillie or thommo but went for thommo and was wrong


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 29, 2010)

Goddamnit England, hurry up.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 29, 2010)

relax, enjoy...


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 29, 2010)

chin music!!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 29, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> chin music!!


 
Loved that.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 29, 2010)

shagnasty said:


> I thought it was either lillie or thommo but went for thommo and was wrong


 
The giveaway was that he was record wicket-taker. Thommo got injured when he had brown hair and only came back when he had grey hair. Lillee played all the way through.

Lillee's one of the first bowlers I remember. I loved watching him bowl – total commitment to every ball. He _flew_ through the air.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 29, 2010)

There's a simple pleasure to the marvel of physics that is the ball drifting one way then spinning the other.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 29, 2010)

Hmmm. Crowd the batsmen. Not enough catchers at the moment.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 29, 2010)

peter siddle's highest score in test cricket - determined fella innee?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 29, 2010)

New ball please.

edit: Actually, fuck that then.


----------



## strung out (Dec 29, 2010)

Lo Siento. said:


> peter siddle's highest score in test cricket - determined fella innee?


 
nice jinx


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 29, 2010)

that was probly coming... 1 to go!


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 29, 2010)

One to go this pair made a nuisance of themselves


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 29, 2010)

Hilfie won't see out the over.

Ah, they crossed.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 29, 2010)

good effort all round by siddle in this match. but we're taking the urn home!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 29, 2010)

got him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## tangerinedream (Dec 29, 2010)

Awesome...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 29, 2010)

Yippee!


----------



## strung out (Dec 29, 2010)

great stuff. now let's win this outright and shit em in the final test


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 29, 2010)

keeping the urn!    win it outright now lads


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 29, 2010)

Hats off to England. Real awesome display of a good team working at every aspect of their game to make themselves great. 

Fielding is often the giveaway. Teams that work hard at everything look good in the field.
 This England team have an almost South African work ethic


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 29, 2010)

^^


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 29, 2010)

Ok 9 down, yours now.


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 29, 2010)

Don't want put a downer on this put the urn doesn't move even if the aussies had won


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 29, 2010)

We are the CHAMPIONS WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 29, 2010)

fantastic, having spent most of my life watching us lose home and away, I love it love it love it.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Dec 29, 2010)

Englands now. Well earned.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 29, 2010)

TrippyLondoner said:


> We are the CHAMPIONS WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!


 
Not yet. Win the series now!

That said, it's Sydney next. um, Swanny 10-fer match?


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 29, 2010)

So so sweet .it makes up for the last ashes series in aus


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 29, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Not yet. Win the series now!


 
Yes yet. Still gonna be ours even if its a draw, can't be arsed waiting till then to celebrate!


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 29, 2010)

we still need to rub their faces in it in sydney. big time.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 29, 2010)

Oh we will.


----------



## shagnasty (Dec 29, 2010)

I can remember illy winning the ashes in aus .this team is a team that will be remembered in history


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 29, 2010)

That'll do lads, that'll do


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 29, 2010)

It will be remembered, yes. I'm pleased for the chaps who've come in, too. Tremlett has been tremendous – I'm hoping for great things from him in the next couple of years. And Tim Bresnan has proved me wrong. Trundler no more, it seems!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 29, 2010)

It's a batsman's game, eh? 

Australia bowled out for 98, a batsman comes in with his team already 60 ahead, scores a hundred and gets man of the match. ffs 

Who won this match?


----------



## Roonster (Dec 29, 2010)

Good to hear the Barmy Army chanting Man United songs in Aussie


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

"In the 2nd and 4th Tests, Australia have been resoundingly shit, historically inept" - Test Match Sofa on fine form summing up the series

I don't yet have the words to describe how proud I am of this England team


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

Roonster said:


> Good to hear the Barmy Army chanting Man United songs in Aussie


 
I doubt that very much, football stuff is generally frowned on in the Army


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 29, 2010)

What the fuck's a sprinkler?!


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> What the fuck's a sprinkler?!


 
it's a dance


----------



## Roonster (Dec 29, 2010)

embree said:


> I doubt that very much, football stuff is generally frowned on in the Army


 


Roonster said:


> Good to hear the Barmy Army chanting Man United songs in Aussie


Well I heard em


----------



## strung out (Dec 29, 2010)

Lord Camomile said:


> What the fuck's a sprinkler?!


 
it's a kind of dance move that the england cricket team have been doing on tour


----------



## strung out (Dec 29, 2010)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 29, 2010)

A little more for a know-nothing? 

e2a: if that's a video of a sprinkler then cheers but I'm on my Kindle so it's just a black box to me


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

Roonster said:


> Well I heard em


 
OK, what was it?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 29, 2010)

Bit weird hearing Hussain saying Warne's name when going through that list while he's actually talking to Warne.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 29, 2010)

Can't wait for the test series v India btw, want us to beat the best and progress to number one in the world.  Good times!


----------



## Roonster (Dec 29, 2010)

embree said:


> I doubt that very much, football stuff is generally frowned on in the Army


 


embree said:


> OK, what was it?


"Take me home Unted road"... "Giggs..Giggs will tear you apart again".. (to the tune of "love will tear us apart" by Joy Division!


----------



## strung out (Dec 29, 2010)

they were singing "swann wil tear you apart again"


----------



## liquidlunch (Dec 29, 2010)

England has the best team by a mile.Our team(if one can call it that)has past its use by date.4 positives were Watson,Hussey,Haddin and Siddle.Bring in a heap of youth for the other spots.
Wishing you all a merry xmas and a happy new year,you bunch of pommy tossersGet fucked the lot of ye

"its un-australian to be paying poms tributes"


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

In Affectionate Remembrance
    of
 *AUSTRALIAN CRICKET*,
    which died at the Melbourne Cricket Ground
    on
    29th DECEMBER 2010,
    Deeply lamented by a large circle of sorrowing
    friends and acquaintances

*    R.I.P.*

    N.B.—The body will be cremated and the
    ashes taken to England​


----------



## strung out (Dec 29, 2010)

this is better than winning the world cup


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

Roonster said:


> "Take me home Unted road"... "Giggs..Giggs will tear you apart again".. (to the tune of "love will tear us apart" by Joy Division!


 
So, one song which is adapted from John Denver and sung by sports fans all over Britain and one which is adapted from Joy Division and mentions Graeme Swann.

Sorry mate, fuck all to do with Manchester United, it's not all about you


----------



## Roonster (Dec 29, 2010)

strung out said:


> they were singing "swann wil tear you apart again"


OK .. but you can't deny it's derived from the United "giggs will tear you apart".. ?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 29, 2010)

Roonster said:


> OK .. but you can't deny it's derived from the United "giggs will tear you apart".. ?


 
who gives a shit right now, seriously?!


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

Roonster said:


> OK .. but you can't deny it's derived from the United "giggs will tear you apart".. ?


 
No, there's a well known Joy Division song which was around first I believe


----------



## Roonster (Dec 29, 2010)

embree said:


> So, one song which is adapted from John Denver and sung by sports fans all over Britain and one which is adapted from Joy Division and mentions Graeme Swann.
> 
> Sorry mate, fuck all to do with Manchester United, it's not all about you


I'm not having that.. both are well known songs but they are not chanted by "sports fans all over Britian".. they are chanted by Man UTD supporters


----------



## Roonster (Dec 29, 2010)

embree said:


> No, there's a well known Joy Division song which was around first I believe


Yes of course.. and it is played every half time at Old Trafford..


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

Yes, 'Take Me Home' is sung at several different clubs. We were singing it on tour with Michael Vaughan years ago. I don't give a shit what you think, the Barmy Army song book isn't ripped off from Manchester United, now stop going on about it.


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

England's average per wicket in the series: 47
Australia's average per wicket: 29


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 29, 2010)

embree said:


> England's average per wicket in the series: 47
> Australia's average per wicket: 29


 
that high for Aus? seems like it should be a lot lower. Well spose the first test pushes it up a bit...


----------



## Roonster (Dec 29, 2010)

embree said:


> Yes, 'Take Me Home' is sung at several different clubs. We were singing it on tour with Michael Vaughan years ago. I don't give a shit what you think, the Barmy Army song book isn't ripped off from Manchester United, now stop going on about it.


Well OK.. just seems strange the songs we were singing at Birmingham earlier tonight were the same at Melbourne


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

Roonster said:


> Well OK.. just seems strange the songs we were singing at Birmingham earlier tonight were the same at Melbourne


 
except with different words, as is the way of these things


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## Lo Siento. (Dec 29, 2010)

embree said:


> except with different words, as is the way of these things


 in fairness, I've never heard any other group of fans sing those songs, apart from Utd fans. Prob one Barmy Army fan heard both tunes and thought of another use. Almost every song you hear the Barmy Army sing are borrowed football chants. Because, basically, singing at the cricket isn't something with a very long history.


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

Edit: fuck it not worth it. I'm right


----------



## JimW (Dec 29, 2010)

Liked their version of Sloop John B but couldn't make out the words


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

JimW said:


> Liked their version of Sloop John B but couldn't make out the words


 
'With Strauss our captain, we'll take the urn home'

A Man United classic


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## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

For Lord Camomile - the Sprinkler dance in full effect at the MCG


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## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

Better one:


----------



## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

And just so that there isn't any doubt:


----------



## Dr. Furface (Dec 29, 2010)




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## Dan U (Dec 29, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Enjoy your day btw dan!



cheers, funnily enough i had a great time again!

topped off by the Trumpet guy coming to the pub after to lead songs, i'll upload a vid later if i remember

lets make it 3-1 in Sydney boys.


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## DrRingDing (Dec 29, 2010)

Well I've just come down a mountain over 3000 metres up to hear we've won. A holy mountain, the most sacred to buddhists in China. 

To be honest seeing the England team doing the sprinkler dance is far more spiritually enlightening than any oversized golden buddha.


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## DrRingDing (Dec 29, 2010)

We need to lay into them in Sydney. Make hay whilst the sun shines.


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## bromley (Dec 29, 2010)

Great stuff! We need to win in Sydney though, just to really piss them off!


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## Streathamite (Dec 29, 2010)

Roonster said:


> Yes of course.. and it is played every half time at Old Trafford..


good Lord, there is _at last_ something _genuinely_ Mancunian about Manchester Utd's fans!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Dec 29, 2010)

embree said:


> For Lord Camomile - the Sprinkler dance in full effect at the MCG


 
Damn, i knew i would miss something once i eventually went to sleep!!!


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 29, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's a batsman's game, eh?
> 
> Australia bowled out for 98, a batsman comes in with his team already 60 ahead, scores a hundred and gets man of the match. ffs
> 
> Who won this match?


I'd say it was a fair decision, if only because England's success in the field owed more to all-round team excellence than a huge contribution by any one individual (for instance, Swann's terrific tightness, on a pitch giving nothing to spinners, was as important to England in Australia's second innings as Bresnan's firepower, or the fact that every wicket in the first innings was a catch by an England side who now look lethal in close fielding), whereas Trott's innings was a colossal and spectacular individual contribution


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## Streathamite (Dec 29, 2010)

Roonster said:


> I'm not having that.. both are well known songs but they are not chanted by "sports fans all over Britian".. they are chanted by Man UTD supporters


actually, I heard adapted versions of LWTUA (written, of course, by a MANCHESTER CITY fan) sung by fans at other stadia in the early and mid '80s, ditto 'country roads'


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## strung out (Dec 29, 2010)

anyway, the fact that adapated versions of LWTUA are sung by both man united fans and cricket fans, does NOT make it a football song, and certainly not a manchester united song!


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## Lo Siento. (Dec 29, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> I'd say it was a fair decision, if only because England's success in the field owed more to all-round team excellence than a huge contribution by any one individual (for instance, Swann's terrific tightness, on a pitch giving nothing to spinners, was as important to England in Australia's second innings as Bresnan's firepower, or the fact that every wicket in the first innings was a catch by an England side who now look lethal in close fielding), whereas Trott's innings was a colossal and spectacular individual contribution


 
yeah, which bowler would you give it to? Bowlers got 6,5,5 and 2 wickets each. Without Trott's 150, we'd definitely have had to bat again, possibly needing to get as much 100-150.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 29, 2010)

Trott could have got out first ball and England would probably still have won. 

But there it is. It's a batsman's game.


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## Streathamite (Dec 29, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Trott could have got out first ball


but he didn't. 
i'd also like to celerate the feast of st-Rub-It-In by pointing out I was practically the only poster on this thread to advocate picking Bresnan...


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## Streathamite (Dec 29, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> And Tim Bresnan has proved me wrong. Trundler no more, it seems!


m'lud, I rest my case!


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 29, 2010)

I'm always happy to be proved wrong when I doubt an England selection.


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## Idaho (Dec 29, 2010)

He's still a trundler. Just one that takes key wickets in pressure matches 

I wonder who they will pick for Sydney. A happy problem. Personally I would take out Collingwood and add another bowler but they won't.

While we are being smug about our predictions - My 2-2 or 3-1 for the series is looking good.


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## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

As far as the trundler tag goes, I now believe it's unfair. He was as quick as, if not quicker than, Anderson and Tremlett. There's an interesting study to be done about the _appearance_ of pace and _actual_ pace based on physique, trajectory and length. Bres was bowling fast, reversing induckers to the right hander and it was massively effective. A tribute to the attention to detail behind the scenes as Flower sent David Saker out to the counties and told him what type of bowlers he wanted. Saker, with his knowledge of the MCG after a career spent bowling there, knew Bresnan was the right man for the ground.

Just goes to show that I don't know as much about cricket as I'd like to. I'm happy to trust the Andies though 

Edit: the major difference between Bresnan at the MCG and previously was that he'd bowled 5 good balls an over before. At the MCG it was 6


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## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

Wickets taken in the series:

England 71/80
Australia 46/80


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## Idaho (Dec 29, 2010)

embree said:


> Wickets taken in the series:
> 
> England 71/80
> Australia 46/80


 
This plus the batting average stats is why it's essential that win next week. We have to convert these abstract stats into a convincing series win and make Perth look like a blip.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 29, 2010)

England 70/79

/pedant


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## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> England 70/79
> 
> /pedant


 
Yeah, if you must


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## pennimania (Dec 29, 2010)

Is there anything more stylish than winning by an innings and 157 runs ?

I've been at a hospital appointment all day with mr mania, and I just kept saying it to myself and couldn't help smiling


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## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

Well I did want to inflict their record home defeat on them but I guess their biggest home defeat in 98 years will do 

Here's the sprinkler...


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## twentythreedom (Dec 29, 2010)

is it possible that pingtong's cracked pinky might unfortunately mean he's unfit for the sydney test? i hope not, he needs to be a comprehensive three times loser of the ashes.


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## pennimania (Dec 29, 2010)

twentythreedom said:


> is it possible that pingtong's cracked pinky might unfortunately mean he's unfit for the sydney test? i hope not, he needs to be a comprehensive three times loser of the ashes.


 
Yup.

I am watching the highlights of the past 2 days - having been unable to before. Amusing how the Aussie commentators are in denial 

  Ponting - Warra twat - I thought Kim Hughes was useless (remember him)? this guy is pathetic = they need to ditch him pronto.

Didn't his grandpa play in the bodyline series? must be revolving in his grave


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## embree (Dec 29, 2010)

You're probably thinking of the Chappells, whose grandfather was Vic Richardson, Australia's opening bat when Douglas Jardine's exemplary tactics caused such a massive hissy fit down under

Ponting's not a very good captain imho, at least not of an average side, which is what Australia are now. Their problem (or one of them) is in trying to persist with the hyper aggressive batting approach of their glory days, which worked fine when they had Matthew Hayden coming out and moosing the ball everywhere from the off but not so well when there are lesser talents in the side. They need to learn to play average cricket effectively, which is what we've had to do over the last 10 years of being relatively competitive.

I'm in two minds about his injury. He is, of course, a dangerous player, even when his eyes have gone and his openers can't protect him from the new ball (if he continues in the team they must drop him down to four or five). On the other hand, he's been a cheap wicket all series for us so it's encouraging to see him walking to the wicket once Hughes has gone to another shit shot (or his partner's run him out). If Ponting's unfit (and I bet he does play), Clarke is not a convincing candidate as captain if you believe stories of his less than universal popularity in the dressing room and his poor results as one day skipper. I'd be more worried if they put Hussey in charge.

Talking of their openers, it's bizarre to see them open with a pair who should be going in at 5/6/7 at the highest. Hughes needs to be sent in lower if he's to play at all and Watson may be a guaranteed 50 but no more than that - he's a two hour batsman, gets bored, loses concentration and gets out. That's not what you want from an opener. What of Chris Rogers or Phil Jaques? Mark Cosgrove is a bit of a tubber but he's also a good opening bat for Tasmania. They seem to have options, they just won't use them, preferring youngsters like Hughes to seasoned pros. Approaches they've used when the team were on top of the world aren't so effective when they're mediocre at best and I really do think they need to rethink their selection policy.

Nice to be discussing their problems rather than ours


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## embree (Dec 30, 2010)

Just been having a play with the ICC Test rankings to see what it would take for us to go second in the world this coming summer. Depends on the result of the SA-India series at the moment as well of course but with Sri Lanka and India at home, it's going to be a very exciting year hopefully, especially considering both sides' relative frailties outside the subcontinent


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## Santino (Dec 30, 2010)

Watson is a completely new problem for them. They can't move him from the top of the order because Hughes won't be there long and there's no way they're about to find two new openers who will do better than him. But his skills are completely wasted where he is. So, in conclusion, lol.


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## Idaho (Dec 30, 2010)

pennimania said:


> Yup.
> 
> I am watching the highlights of the past 2 days - having been unable to before. Amusing how the Aussie commentators are in denial
> 
> ...


 
The Aussie commentators on the highlights are great. They make occasional token attempts to be neutral but then get really excited at every faint glimmer of hope.


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## strung out (Dec 30, 2010)

ponting's definitely out of the final test http://www.espncricinfo.com/the-ashes-2010-11/content/story/494663.html


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## shagnasty (Dec 30, 2010)

pennimania said:


> Yup.
> 
> I am watching the highlights of the past 2 days - having been unable to before. Amusing how the Aussie commentators are in denial
> 
> ...


 
Kim Hughes was he the aussie captain during what became known as Bothams ashes.I thought at the time he showed a lot of dignity when he resigned .I agree the aussie don't do impartial except ritchie benaud.Have to listen out for Hughes ,is he really that bad


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## embree (Dec 30, 2010)

Kim Hughes' problem was that he was seen as the 'chosen one', posh boy who was anointed captain and disliked by the senior members of the squad - Marsh, Lillee, the Chappells. After acting the twat towards him for a couple of years they all retired simultaneously just before home and away series against the West Indies, which was obviously massively brave of them. Whoever takes over from Ponting, at least he won't have to deal with a clique of surly 'legends' trying to disrupt the team


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## Idaho (Dec 30, 2010)

I agree with Gough's comments that England need to be bringing through talent and blooding new players while we are on top.


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## London_Calling (Dec 30, 2010)

^ Yeah well, blah, blah - talk specifics or don't bother.


The barmy army echoing around an almost empty MCG during play on the 4th day of an Ashes Test will remain in the memory for a long time.

Decent away support.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 30, 2010)

Ponting out. Clarke captain. 

Hmmm. Shame.


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## Idaho (Dec 30, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> ^ Yeah well, blah, blah - talk specifics or don't bother.
> 
> 
> The barmy army echoing around an almost empty MCG during play on the 4th day of an Ashes Test will remain in the memory for a long time.
> ...


 Specifics: replace Collingwood with someone new for Sydney.


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## London_Calling (Dec 30, 2010)

with whom . . . and why?


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## Streathamite (Dec 30, 2010)

Idaho said:


> Specifics: replace Collingwood with someone new for Sydney.


shahzad? he's gotta get a run sooner or later, the bloke's earnt it. colly would be better off conserving his fading energies for the World Cup
e2a: morgan also needs some wicket time, and Rashid and Panesar are hopefully still in the frame for the future. fortunately, this top order has 5 years undisturbed life left in it


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 30, 2010)

I can't see England going with five bowlers – Prior at 6 is probably one place too high for him, and they only need a draw after all – so you could only replace Collingwood with Morgan. I don't think Morgan is test-quality, personally, and he has also hardly played, so I'd stick with Collingwood. Longer-term, I do think Collingwood's probably reached the end of the line, but he can be replaced next summer, not now.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 30, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> shahzad? he's gotta get a run sooner or later, the bloke's earnt it. colly would be better off conserving his fading energies for the World Cup


 
If they needed the win, maybe, although if you're going with five bowlers for Sydney, I'd rather see Monty wheeled out. 

Won't happen though – they will only pick four bowlers for Sydney.


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## Streathamite (Dec 30, 2010)

I never thought winning the Ashes in Australia would feel this fucking cosmic. A day later, and i've still got a huge bloody great grin on my face!


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 30, 2010)

Job's not done yet. As far as I'm concerned, a drawn series will be a disappointment.


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## Streathamite (Dec 30, 2010)

This may sound complacent, but I really, _really_ can't see how the aussies are gonna fashion a win in Sydney. Perth was different; the place has always been a nightmare for England, going all the way back to '74. sydney suits England.


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## embree (Dec 30, 2010)

No, we don't need five bowlers. How many times? The two occasions in the series when we've looked ropey (first innings at Brisbane, both at Perth) had nothing to do with the bowlers. Four bowlers is more than enough, six batsmen, wicketkeeper and four bowlers is a balanced team, don't unbalance it.

So it would come down to Colly or Morgan at Sydney. Collingwood, every time


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 30, 2010)

Finn or Bresnan?


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## embree (Dec 30, 2010)

For Sydney? Bresnan


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## Streathamite (Dec 30, 2010)

Finn. His potential is bigger, for all I think Bresnan's underrated. The consistency and economy that Finn has hitherto lacked will come with maturity, and the more tests he plays. Bloody rough luck on Bresnan, though


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## embree (Dec 30, 2010)

Finn's leaking of runs took the pressure off at times. See Ponting's comments about how Bresnan's inclusion basically meant that there weren't any opportunities for scoring runs. Bresnan got the ball reversing at times as well, not sure that Finn managed that at all.

They won't change the team, I'm pretty sure of that


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## pennimania (Dec 30, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> I never thought winning the Ashes in Australia would feel this fucking cosmic. A day later, and i've still got a huge bloody great grin on my face!



I know the feeling


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## Idaho (Dec 30, 2010)

London_Calling said:


> with whom . . . and why?


 
With just about anyone. Collingwood is neither old faithful nor up and coming. He's neither a go to bowler nor reliable batsman.


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## Idaho (Dec 30, 2010)

I think I would go for Bresnan. The only question is how to re jig the batting order.


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 30, 2010)

He is the team's best fielder, and he has won/saved test matches for England in the past. I think he should be dropped after this series, but he should play in Sydney, imo, albeit at number 6, not 5.


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## liquidlunch (Dec 30, 2010)

and this bit of news will make you lot even happier
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...ngland-in-sydney/story-e6frecj3-1225978881473
well done to Khawaja,the first Muslim to play cricket for Australia.Hope he makes heaps


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 30, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> and this bit of news will make you lot even happier
> http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...ngland-in-sydney/story-e6frecj3-1225978881473
> well done to Khawaja,the first Muslim to play cricket for Australia.Hope he makes heaps


great, a novice and someone we've already duffed over!
Just how suicidial are you feeling right now, liquidlunch?


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 30, 2010)

Two novices. Remember the mighty Beer will certainly be playing.

16 first class wickets at 43. Move over Xavier Doherty!


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## pennimania (Dec 30, 2010)

Well I'm looking forward to it 

i've realised I was thinking of Ponsford - I think he was the captain in the Bodyline tests.


----------



## Streathamite (Dec 30, 2010)

((((((((((australians))))))


----------



## embree (Dec 30, 2010)

liquidlunch said:


> and this bit of news will make you lot even happier
> http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport...ngland-in-sydney/story-e6frecj3-1225978881473
> well done to Khawaja,the first Muslim to play cricket for Australia.Hope he makes heaps


 
Is this going to signal the end of Australian digs at the cosmopolitan nature of English sides down the years as well?

Got him cheap in Hobart and I'm not sure sending a novice in at three is a great move


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 30, 2010)

embree said:


> Is this going to signal the end of Australian digs at the cosmopolitan nature of English sides down the years as well?
> 
> Got him cheap in Hobart and I'm not sure sending a novice in at three is a great move


 
Will he be able to get the 15 or so runs needed to meet the standard there?


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 30, 2010)

He should bat at six, surely, with Hussey moving to three? 

Ah no, Smith's at six.  Better put Khawaja at five.


----------



## embree (Dec 30, 2010)

Anyone else think Australia probably have the team to match England, they just don't know who they are?


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## embree (Dec 30, 2010)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Will he be able to get the 15 or so runs needed to meet the standard there?



It's a tough ask but they are talking him up...



littlebabyjesus said:


> He should bat at six, surely, with Hussey moving to three?
> 
> Ah no, Smith's at six.  Better put Khawaja at five.


 
Clearly this is what _should_ happen. So it won't


----------



## Santino (Dec 30, 2010)

embree said:


> Anyone else think Australia probably have the team to match England, they just don't know who they are?



No.


----------



## embree (Dec 30, 2010)

Santino said:


> No.


 
No you're probably right

Even so, David Hussey - 12000 FC runs at over 50 and no Test cap. All the other names I've mentioned above (Jaques, Cosgrove, Rogers). Hauritz. I'm sure there's better batsmen in Australia than Smith and Hughes anyway


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 30, 2010)

yep. I don't understand the dumping of Hauritz or the neglect of David Hussey, and wasn't Jacques really good when he came into test cricket a couple of years ago? Curious.


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## embree (Dec 30, 2010)

Jaques has 900 Test runs at 47. Terrible back injuries but he's playing now. The return to Hughes is weird, it's plain he's no further forward than when he was found out in England last year

Hauritz, well... supposedly Ponting and the selectors are unimpressed with his habit of picking up niggling 'injuries' when he doesn't want to play. Seen it said that this is why he didn't play at the Oval last year when a spinner was an obvious requirement. I think they're wrong, he's got a record comparable to Panesar as a bowler and has scored two centuries for NSW this season. He's a very capable cricketer.


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## strung out (Dec 30, 2010)

cosgrove is a decent shout for opening bat, but they won't pick him cos of his weight. shame (for them) really


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## littlebabyjesus (Dec 30, 2010)

Don't know Cosgrove. Jesse Ryder's fat, and he does ok. If he's got good hands, you can always shove him in the slips.


----------



## strung out (Dec 30, 2010)

saw him batting for glamorgan against gloucester last season when he scored a century. he is pretty big though


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 30, 2010)

You don't have to be an athlete to be a good cricketer. 

He does look about 14 years old, though.


----------



## embree (Dec 30, 2010)

Scored a century off about 80 balls v WA in the Shield the other week


----------



## Balbi (Dec 31, 2010)

Monty time imo.


----------



## embree (Dec 31, 2010)

I think you mean Jonty...


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

Great line



> IT was like standing around waiting for grandma to die.
> 
> Standing around watching her die with a grandstand full of her enemies celebrating her imminent demise.


----------



## butchersapron (Dec 31, 2010)

Ta



> There was more joy for diehard Poms who have come to the other side of the world to see England retain the urn in Australia for the first time in 24 years. Cricket Australia threw open the gates after Mitchell Johnson's dismissal in the second over of the morning. ''We did open the gates free of charge after the fall of Johnson's wicket because there were too many people outside trying to get in, and the ticket selling process wasn't going to be able to process them in time,'' a CA spokesman said. ''We were worried there were English people who have come all the way from England who wanted to see the defining moment who'd be stuck outside. At that point, we opened the gates to let them in.''


----------



## embree (Dec 31, 2010)

Glad about that, I saw interviews with people outside while play was in progress and tweets from people queuing listening to the roar as Johnson's wicket fell


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Dec 31, 2010)

Tight bastards charging anything.


----------



## embree (Dec 31, 2010)

Malcolm Conn makes a bid for worst loser in the Australian press:



> It's one thing to be flogged by the once mighty West Indies after the upheaval of World Series Cricket and rebel tours of South Africa. It is quite another to be humiliated by a third-ranked nation which has one superstar, the South African-born Kevin Pietersen, when he gets his head right.


----------



## embree (Dec 31, 2010)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Tight bastards charging anything.


 
well yes


----------



## London_Calling (Dec 31, 2010)

Idaho said:


> With just about anyone. Collingwood is neither old faithful nor up and coming. He's neither a go to bowler nor reliable batsman.


 
It's a view. Wasn't giving you a hard time for the sake of it, it just becomes a little trickier when you actually have to name names and offer explanations.


----------



## embree (Dec 31, 2010)

Gideon Haigh gives a typically sane and level headed view of Australian cricket


----------



## embree (Jan 1, 2011)

Happy New Year cricket people. 2011 marks the tenth anniversary of Australia's last Ashes series win in England


----------



## Balbi (Jan 2, 2011)

embree said:


> For Lord Camomile - the Sprinkler dance in full effect at the MCG


----------



## Santino (Jan 2, 2011)

Come on then, selection opinions for Sydney.

It should take spin so you might want to pick Monty, but is it really necessary with Swann on the team? All the fast bowlers performed last time, so I can't see any pressing reason to change anything there. If England want to be truly ruthless they could drop Colly for Morgan or another bowler, but I think they'll give him a chance to get a few runs as a going away present. Strauss has a bit of a soft side (like picking Flintoff for the Oval in 2009) so I'd expect to see him keep Colly in. He will also be very useful in the world cup in Feb.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 2, 2011)

Santino said:


> Come on then, selection opinions for Sydney.
> 
> It should take spin so you might want to pick Monty, but is it really necessary with Swann on the team? All the fast bowlers performed last time, so I can't see any pressing reason to change anything there. If England want to be truly ruthless they could drop Colly for Morgan or another bowler, but I think they'll give him a chance to get a few runs as a going away present. Strauss has a bit of a soft side (like picking Flintoff for the Oval in 2009) so I'd expect to see him keep Colly in. He will also be very useful in the world cup in Feb.




I really hope they don't keep him in for the sake of it. This is still a serious game - a series draw would be a big let down IMO. Personally I think they should drop him but if he does play it should only be because they reckon he's the best player to play (which to be fair would be consistent with the approach taken so far).


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 2, 2011)

He's playing. Strauss has said as much.


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## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

Collingwood will play because he is the best man for the position

Don't get too excited about the SCG's spin properties, it's not 1995 any more. It'll turn a bit later on but swing will be as important. 

Unchanged team


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 2, 2011)

Yes, they've changed the soil, apparently. Bad luck on Monty, but given that he can't bat, I don't see him ever playing in the same team as Swann unless England unearth a genuine all-rounder.


----------



## strung out (Jan 2, 2011)

don't want morgan to be called up to prove himself in test cricket in a game as important as this one. collingwood's been in awful form, but in a tight spot, i'd still back him to produce the goods over morgan who's not proven in tests still imo


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 2, 2011)

I don't really rate Morgan. My guess is that he'll be like Michael Bevan – a great one-day performer who doesn't make the grade in tests.


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## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

It's about far more than Colly's batting form. It's about team dynamics


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't really rate Morgan. My guess is that he'll be like Michael Bevan – a great one-day performer who doesn't make the grade in tests.


 
yeah, I'm not convinced


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 2, 2011)

They should pick Morgan - he must be good enough/rated highly enough to have been picked as the spare bat on the tour. Colly hasn't done it or looked like doing it. Change from a position of strength. We're not Australia you know..


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## liquidlunch (Jan 2, 2011)

embree said:


> Happy New Year cricket people. 2011 marks the tenth anniversary of Australia's last Ashes series win in England


 and if you win this series not just draw it,it will be the first series win in 24 years for England in Australia(just to keep it in context like)


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 2, 2011)

That's it, keep living in the past.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 2, 2011)

Got sky on my xbox, live streams no worse than on here. Ten thirty coverage starts


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> They should pick Morgan - he must be good enough/rated highly enough to have been picked as the spare bat on the tour. Colly hasn't done it or looked like doing it. Change from a position of strength. We're not Australia you know..


 
Nah, Collingwood offers more.



liquidlunch said:


> and if you win this series not just draw it,it will be the first series win in 24 years for England in Australia(just to keep it in context like)


 
Yeah and Don Bradman used to be a bit good. That's ancient history and all


----------



## Idaho (Jan 2, 2011)

Morgan is the one to at least try and develop for #6 (assuming Bell gets moved to #5). If he can't reign in the one-day style of play, then we look elsewhere. But if Collingwood plays (which is probably will) and gets a score (which I hope he does), he's still going to retire from Tests after this tour - so who else do we start work on?


----------



## strung out (Jan 2, 2011)

is he? he's only 34, not ancient for a test cricketer.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 2, 2011)

Generally speaking for live rubbers, I say you should always choose your strongest team, and let development work itself out. In this case, Collingwood is still the right player for this test, imo. 

As for his replacement, it will probably be Morgan, but I don't think it should be. His batting proved very fragile in the summer, and he has a very average first class record. I would tell him to go away and make runs in the County Championship if he wants to play test cricket. 

Who else? I don't know. I still think Ravi Bopara could make it as a test batsman, and coming into a successful team could be the right time for him again. Or another bright prospect I know little about – I knew nothing about Jonathan Trott until about a month before he was first selected.


----------



## strung out (Jan 2, 2011)

bopara will do a bell and come back in later. he's absurdly talented.


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

People have been trying to write Colly out of the Test side for years now. They've always been wrong and it's no different now


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 2, 2011)

embree said:


> People have been trying to write Colly out of the Test side for years now. They've always been wrong and it's no different now


 
He's on a horrible trot of form. I think he has to go after this test, tbh, unless he makes a big hundred.


----------



## liquidlunch (Jan 2, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> That's it, keep living in the past.


 
typical pommy biasedness,your side can bring up our failures but i cannot retort with other facts that put things in context.Bring it on baby,i predict a draw this test and a drawn series as a result,just to extend the years it takes your lot to win a series here(wish there was a smiley for a two fingered salute)
Bunch o kuntz


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

er, if the Test is drawn, we win. Because we're 2-1 up now

Pay attention


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 2, 2011)

liquidlunch said:


> typical pommy biasedness,your side can bring up our failures but i cannot retort with other facts that put things in context.bring it on baby,i predict a draw this test and a drawn series as a result,just to extend the years it takes your lot to win a series here:d(wish there was a smiley for a two fingered salute)
> bunch o kuntz


 
yes, aussies aren't biased at all.


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

It is ten years since Australia won in England

It is four years since they beat England in Australia and this will extend to a minimum eight years


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 2, 2011)

We have a right to be biased anyway, we've been kicking your asses (mostly) since 2005.


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

There's nothing wrong with being biased, ever.

Aussies can be biased too. They're also wrong


----------



## liquidlunch (Jan 2, 2011)

embree said:


> er, if the Test is drawn, we win. Because we're 2-1 up now
> 
> Pay attention


 you know what i meant


----------



## liquidlunch (Jan 2, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> yes, aussies aren't biased at all.


 dont start TL,just brace yourself for a sound thrashing todayI am at work but have sod all to do except sit in front of the telly


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

Anyway, showers forecast for the first four days. Good news for Australia


----------



## Balbi (Jan 2, 2011)

Where's the cricket? Darts still on SS1?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 2, 2011)

Ashes on ss1 at 10:55. Darts switching to ss2 then. Darts is fucking great though!!!


----------



## Santino (Jan 2, 2011)

Colly has bowled at around 2.5 an over this series. That's pretty hand to keep up pressure on the batsmen and take the pressure off the England fast bowlers.


----------



## Santino (Jan 2, 2011)

England bowling first.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 2, 2011)

If Beer and Khawaja go for very little, it'll knock their confidence - ta Oz.

Although Beer's well down the order. Still, if we skittle them MCG style, he'll have a lot of pressure on.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 2, 2011)

This could be fun.


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

Very green looking pitch so obviously Australia are playing their spinner who's never even played at the SCG


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

Watson's having terrible trouble timing it here


----------



## Santino (Jan 2, 2011)

We've let them get 5 runs without a wicket!


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

Phil Hughes is mourning the death of his Test career with that armband. Nice touch


----------



## embree (Jan 2, 2011)

Worst camera work yet, shocking stuff


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 2, 2011)

Santino said:


> We've let them get 5 runs without a wicket!


 
Make that 10. Panic time.

Bet Liquidlunch is so smug right now too.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 3, 2011)

Have our bowlers forgotten to turn up or something?

This is not what I pay my taxes for


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 3, 2011)

Bowling well, especially Tremlett. Wicket's coming...


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

Pitch it up, aim for the top of off stump


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 3, 2011)

I'm wishing Finn was playing already.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 3, 2011)

I just declared dismay at the fact they've got 28 with no loss. My mum said: "Well stop looking, you're only encouraging them..."


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

This.

Is.

Chaos.


----------



## Santino (Jan 3, 2011)

Someone resign


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

Pitch it up!

Pitchituppitchituppitchitup


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

We are so gonna pay for this piss taking.

Just wait, them aussies will show us.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 3, 2011)

Fuck piss taking, I'm fucking _pissed off_


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

Oh and keep a short leg in


----------



## baldrick (Jan 3, 2011)

finally i am somewhere where i can listen to it live.  or at least test match sofa and the cricinfo scorecard.


----------



## albinjindu (Jan 3, 2011)

the stream i'm watching on is shit. anyone know of any gooduns?


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 3, 2011)

tms?


----------



## strung out (Jan 3, 2011)

go to crictime.com


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> tms?


 
sofa, not special


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 3, 2011)

embree said:


> sofa, not special


the sofa has been heavily involved with my ashes enjoyment to date. 

some of it more..._alert_, shall we say, than others


----------



## albinjindu (Jan 3, 2011)

strung out said:


> go to crictime.com


 

Cheers!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## strung out (Jan 3, 2011)

thank god for that


----------



## baldrick (Jan 3, 2011)

woo! hughes gone.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

colly colly COLLY!


----------



## liquidlunch (Jan 3, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Make that 10. Panic time.
> 
> Bet Liquidlunch is so smug right now too.


 
no,not really,just glad to get to 50 without loss


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

liquidlunch said:


> even smugger now lad


 
O RLY


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 3, 2011)

here we go!!!


----------



## baldrick (Jan 3, 2011)

heh.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

lol just seen the edit


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

sums up Australia's series. Looked like they were OK, then a shit shot, a wicket and it's up for grabs again considering how slowly they've scored

Bet Khawaja's having a nice relaxed lunch


----------



## Dan U (Jan 3, 2011)

Eyes on the prize England, eyes on the prize

Keep the pressure on, make it 3-1


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 3, 2011)

Not a good shot last over before lunch. It was short so there was no need to play. Tremlett deserved that, though. 

Aus scored so slowly, that wicket makes it almost honours even first session.


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Not a good shot last over before lunch. It was short so there was no need to play. Tremlett deserved that, though.
> 
> Aus scored so slowly, that wicket makes it almost honours even first session.



Absolutely. Honours even, novice coming in.

Hughes is not a Test batsman, he's rubbish


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

This new guys playing like he's not scarred/completely destroyed inside/demolished by us atm. Don't worry though, still time for that.


----------



## liquidlunch (Jan 3, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> lol just seen the edit


fuck ityou were quick lol


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 3, 2011)

liquidlunch said:


> fuck ityou were quick lol


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


>


 
Wow, that captures the moment beautifully.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 3, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Wow, that captures the moment beautifully.


Apparently, that position is how I've been falling asleep on the sofa....


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

Bad light? WTF?


----------



## baldrick (Jan 3, 2011)

bad light


----------



## baldrick (Jan 3, 2011)

may as well go to bed at this point i think.  it's going to rain later too.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

I've got other stuff to watch so can't be bothered with bed atm!


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

yep, rain's on the way before tea apparently


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

back already? hahaha


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

rain imminent and my bed's calling me...


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

that's odd, Twatto wasn't due to be out for another five or six runs there


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 3, 2011)

yes!!!


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 3, 2011)

Two down, Khawaja's mum is really suffering she is really nervous poor sole


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

missed the wicket


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

just glad we got it though tbf


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

It's incredibly dark out there, it's even obvious from the telly


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 3, 2011)

night all


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

20% chance of rain for the rest of the day apparently. Think that's bed for me


----------



## JimW (Jan 3, 2011)

Shouldn't have gone to bed - back on long enough to get Clarke


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 3, 2011)

Embree's probablly under the duvet listening on the radio


----------



## JimW (Jan 3, 2011)

I can't talk - it's on at an eminently reasonable time for me but I missed the morning session on what sounds like a good old-fashioned opening day's cricket.


----------



## JimW (Jan 3, 2011)

And now Swann's worked his magic on the handy-looking Khawaja. Looking like an excellent first day's work now


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 3, 2011)

England have slight edge on the first day i think this test has draw written all through it .but lets hope not


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

Good proper Test cricket, patience from both sides, England slightly on top

First time in four Tests that Australia haven't been bowled out on the first day


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

Interesting to see Clarke getting booed, apparently by Australian supporters, and Ponting hanging around the dressing room in the same way Vaughan got criticised for in 2006/7


----------



## DaRealSpoon (Jan 3, 2011)

Bit annoying how the media are creaming themselves over Khawaja.. He scored 37 off 95 balls ffs!!! Hardly the stuff of legend, so he played a couple of shots early on.. So what?

Really doesn't warrant any kind of coverage for me.


----------



## Santino (Jan 3, 2011)

He's a promising young talent who didn't cock everything up in a pressure situation. Potentially a good find for Australia, but not the Second Coming.

Also, excellent PR material as a Pakistani-Australian player. They'll be pinning hopes on him to help extend the popularity of the game to 'new markets' as they say in cricket these days.


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

Nah, he was a damn sight better than Hughes, Ponting, Clarke, North or Smith have been this series so worthy of some attention. He played a few shots early, looked calm, reigned himself in and played sensible for the conditions and got an OK score for a first go. He's a good 'un


----------



## baldrick (Jan 3, 2011)

embree said:


> that's odd, Twatto wasn't due to be out for another five or six runs there


he seems incapable of going beyond the 50's in this series doesn't he?  shame.


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

it's remarkable isn't it? Overall he's on about 15 Test half centuries and only 2 centuries, which is a dreadful conversion rate


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 3, 2011)

HA HA Haddin!!!!!!!!!


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 3, 2011)

Hanging their bats out there again...


----------



## Santino (Jan 3, 2011)

Here comes no.7 Steve Smith. He can't bowl and he bats after the keeper. Must be some kind of specialist fielder.


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 3, 2011)

Santino said:


> Here comes no.7 Steve Smith. He can't bowl and he bats after the keeper. Must be some kind of specialist fielder.



He's a Collingwood lite


----------



## Santino (Jan 3, 2011)

I will ignore that slur to the Greatest Living Englishman.


----------



## pennimania (Jan 3, 2011)

Santino said:


> Here comes no.7 Steve Smith. He can't bowl and he bats after the keeper. Must be some kind of specialist fielder.


----------



## yardbird (Jan 3, 2011)

The English fielding !!


----------



## embree (Jan 3, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> He's a Collingwood lite


 
not followed cricket long then?


----------



## Santino (Jan 3, 2011)

18 runs off the last 10 overs.


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

The pitch still looks proper peculiar


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 4, 2011)

boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwwlllllllllllleeeeeeedddddddddddddddd


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2011)

Colly bowls Hussey


----------



## pennimania (Jan 4, 2011)

Oh yes


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Morgan would have bowled him twice by then


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 4, 2011)

colly colly, colly colly, colly colly


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 4, 2011)

Missed that wicket what a time for the stream to freeze !drat!


----------



## yardbird (Jan 4, 2011)

Yeah! 
And now the new ball.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 4, 2011)

oooh johnson SCARY!


----------



## yardbird (Jan 4, 2011)

shagnasty said:


> Missed that wicket what a time for the stream to freeze !drat!


 
I rapidly switched streams and got the replay.

The ATN commentators are very complimentary about the English bowling.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 4, 2011)

boom!


----------



## gabi (Jan 4, 2011)

Who's winning?


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 4, 2011)

murdoch


----------



## pennimania (Jan 4, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> murdoch


 
the radio 5 commentary is very entertaining.

Boycott has been on top form


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2011)

pennimania said:


> the radio 5 commentary is very entertaining.
> 
> Boycott has been on top form



Has he said 'crrrRRRRRRicket' yet?


----------



## gabi (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm in brazil standing on a roof next to a guy in an Aussie hat. I think I'll show him the score.


----------



## pennimania (Jan 4, 2011)

Santino said:


> Has he said 'crrrRRRRRRicket' yet?




several times

but he is more interested in sorting out the Aussies' problems by suggesting a formula that worked for Yorkshire 'when they were good' (sic).


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 4, 2011)

pennimania said:


> the radio 5 commentary is very entertaining.
> 
> Boycott has been on top form


good shout actually


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 4, 2011)

eaaaaaaaaaaaasssssssssssyyyyyyyyyy


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2011)

YES!


----------



## yardbird (Jan 4, 2011)

Oh boy!!


----------



## pennimania (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm enjoying this


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Smith is just unbelievably shit. That shot was naive beyond description.


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2011)

Easy.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 4, 2011)

lmao. this is embaressing.


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2011)

This is like a video on how to bowl a side out.


----------



## pennimania (Jan 4, 2011)

oops! i can hardly keep up


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

This is showing how well the top order did to hang around even if the scoring rate was slow


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2011)

embree said:


> This is showing how well the top order did to hang around even if the scoring rate was slow


 
Their greatest achievement so far in this match has been leaving the ball.


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 4, 2011)

Siddle had been making himself a nuisance so a good wicket to take


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

could we hang fire on overall judgment before we bat please? Pitch is still green and that


----------



## El Sueno (Jan 4, 2011)

Marvellous stuff. Still yet to see how a decent side can bat on this wicket but it won't be long now! Gutted I'm back to work tomorrow, last test n' all... I'm really gonna miss this when it's gone.


----------



## Red Faction (Jan 4, 2011)

love it!!


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2011)

embree said:


> could we hang fire on overall judgment before we bat please? Pitch is still green and that


 
No. I refuse to hang my fire.

Besides, the sun is coming out.


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Santino said:


> Their greatest achievement so far in this match has been leaving the ball.


 
Absolutely. Balls that were being left are now being edged by the tail. Or wildly slashed at by whatever Smith is


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 4, 2011)

i'd be disgraced if i was an aussie. so ashamed.


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2011)

Johnson seems to have turned down two singles to hog the strike.


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Santino said:


> Johnson seems to have turned down two singles to hog the strike.


 
he's by far the better batsman out there though


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 4, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> i'd be disgraced if i was an aussie. so ashamed.


^^^this should be a sticky


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Jesus, bowl at the top of off stump


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

utter utter filth from England here. Just bowl at the fucking stumps


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 4, 2011)

ha! just bowl anywhere


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

oh, a yorker at the stumps. Why didn't I think of that?


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Absolute rubbish, no thought employed there at all. Rabbits in and barely any yorkers bowled at Hilfenhaus at all


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 4, 2011)

You lads all gone to bed ,i go away from my keyboard for an hour or so and everybodies gone quite


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

still here, they're enjoying themselves out there aren't they? The pitch doesn't look very threatening at all. Were the Australian top order paying it a bit too much respect? They spent the first day barely playing any shots at all and Strauss and Cook are filling their boots. Mind you, we bowled better on it (until the last couple of wickets)


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

*David Hasselhoff's at the Test match!*


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

The Hoff has just carted Shane Warne over extra cover. Glenn McGrath at short leg watches in admiration.

I'm not making this up


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Beautiful pulling and driving from Andrew Strauss


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 4, 2011)

I remember back in 1973 joe frazer came to fight joe bugner at earls court ,a fight i went to ,he watched the cricket because that was all the day time telly there was he couldn't get on with it ,so unusual for americans to watch cricket


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

follow on avoided


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

well that was disappointing. Lovely timing all the way through before playing down completely the wrong line. Arse.


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

hmmm


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

I'm getting the idea even Johnson doesn't know what he's going to bowl next


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

and there's the inevitable kamikaze Pietersen run


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 4, 2011)

I like david hasselhoffs t shirt don't hassel the hoff


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Welcome to Test cricket Michael Beer - driven for four first ball by KP


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 4, 2011)

He suffers what i did at his age male pattern baldness .also he is not very impressive


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Can he live up to the standards set by XDo?


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Oh dear, no excuses for overstepping that far as a spinner


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 4, 2011)

Def a no ball


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

Miles over


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Well it's only his sixth First Class match, he's still finding out how to play


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

He's still doing it as well!


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 4, 2011)

Often an umpire is very quick to call no ball because often a batsman changes his shot


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

btw, Jimmeh has 21 wickets in the series, which means that unless Siddle takes a truckload soon, an Englishman will top the series wickets table for the first time since 1985


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

Ali Cook 5000 runs up in Test cricket


----------



## embree (Jan 4, 2011)

we'd be ahead if we hadn't bowled like balloons at the end of their innings


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 4, 2011)

two let offs. Not pressing home the advantages when they were 180-8 and KP giving them his wicket in the last few overs. 170-3 is a couple of wickets away from 220 all out, 170-2 would have had us in the driving seat. In the balance, first two sessions tomorrow are crucial.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 4, 2011)

Santino said:


> Has he said 'crrrRRRRRRicket' yet?


shurely "crrRRRReeEEEG-it"?

Not bad from England, but it could have been _so_ much better. We _really_ let them off the hook at 180-8, for all that Johnson's a better bat than his figures over the past year or so suggest.
And KP and Trott can hang their heads - they just threw their wickets away.
I still can't see the Aussies winning the test, tho, and there's nowt to prevent Cooky getting another ton here, given that the bloke's on fire and he has 3 decent batting partners left


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 4, 2011)

I like Simon Hughes' day-by-day match analysis in The Times and today he's got an interesting graphic comparison of Anderson's current bowling with what McGrath used to do at Sydney.

Crucial wicket of Hussey taken by Collingwood, I notice.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 4, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> shurely "crrRRRReeEEEG-it"?
> 
> Not bad from England, but it could have been _so_ much better. We _really_ let them off the hook at 180-8, for all that Johnson's a better bat than his figures over the past year or so suggest.
> And KP and Trott can hang their heads - they just threw their wickets away.
> I still can't see the Aussies winning the test, tho, and there's nowt to prevent Cooky getting another ton here, given that the bloke's on fire and he has 3 decent batting partners left



The only way we can win is to get a total of 400+ and then come at them hard with the ball. Anything less than 400 and it's looking like a draw. Less than 300 and we risk having to chase a total on a deteriorating wicket.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 4, 2011)

Don't agree with any of that.

England can win whatever happens in the rest of their first innings. If Aus get any kind of a lead, they're favourites but by no means certs for victory. If England get a small lead, it's 50:50. If England get over 400, they're strong favourites. 

However many England get, a draw is very unlikely unless they lose a lot of time to the weather.


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 4, 2011)

embree said:


> I'm getting the idea even Johnson doesn't know what he's going to bowl next



He's Devon Malcolm lite


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 4, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> He's Devon Malcolm lite


or a Steve Harmison tribute act!


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 4, 2011)

Idaho said:


> The only way we can win is to get a total of 400+


given our batting performances in Brisbane, Adelaide and Melbourne, I really don't see why that should be that big an 'ask'


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

Or, given our bowling performances, why it's necessary. Preferable, but not necessary.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 4, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> given our batting performances in Brisbane, Adelaide and Melbourne, I really don't see why that should be that big an 'ask'


 
I agree that it's doable. I really hope we do it. Bat until the pitch breaks up, then skittle them only having to knock a few balls round the park for an hour to claim victory. This will require Cook getting another daddy hundred, and one other. Collingwood's swan song?


----------



## Idaho (Jan 4, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Or, given our bowling performances, why it's necessary. Preferable, but not necessary.


 
Because they bat 3rd and we bat 4th. In Sydney, the difference is significant.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

Or not, given our bowling performances and their batting.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 4, 2011)

An average bowler can bowl successfully to a great batsmen on a pitch that fires off shooters and grubbers.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 4, 2011)

Idaho said:


> I agree that it's doable. I really hope we do it. Bat until the pitch breaks up, then skittle them only having to knock a few balls round the park for an hour to claim victory. This will require Cook getting another daddy hundred, and one other. Collingwood's swan song?


the form book suggests 400 is eminently achievable for England, and we deffo *don't* need another daddy hundred from cook (though if anyone will, he will) - just another ton from him, and a big innings (or two) from the 3 batsmen left, none of which is difficult to imagine. bell and prior have both looked good at the crease, and colly's duff run will end.
And as BA has implied, the form book's with our bowling. The aussies have - astonishingly - got above 350 *once* in 9 1/2  attempts (i really can't count their second brisbane innings), and they've 3 test rookies in the order. I just can't see them turning into superman for innings 2, so even if England get a moxdest (300+ total), I'd back them.
If cookie makes hay tomorrow morning, massively so.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

Idaho said:


> An average bowler can bowl successfully to a great batsmen on a pitch that fires off shooters and grubbers.



A great bowler can have them out for so little that it doesn't matter - a couple - even more chance. 

£48 not including tip - hope you enjoyed your meal.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 4, 2011)

Idaho said:


> An average bowler can bowl successfully to a great batsmen on a pitch that fires off shooters and grubbers.


Is it doing that that much tho'? To me, just about all the wickets were moments of suicidally stupid batting (yes, that means *you*, Pietersen, but also Haddin and Hussey) or simply good, disciplined line + lenggth by england's bowlers


----------



## Idaho (Jan 4, 2011)

The pitch is fine at the moment, but historically, Sydney pitches have deteriorated quickly and severely.

The next session will be crucial [/cliché]


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2011)

It's only bloody gone and started again.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

Buggery, thought 11-30

181-4.


----------



## pennimania (Jan 4, 2011)

oh dear


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

Bit of both there from johnson...


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

Ricky would've claimed that - that' what captaincy all about.


----------



## pennimania (Jan 4, 2011)

Is it only you and me butchers?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 4, 2011)

Look like it is tonight, so far anyway. I've got my pink shirt on as well.


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2011)

Yo


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> Yo


 
Anything pink on?


----------



## pennimania (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Anything pink on?


 
I am sporting a very nice pink lace bra thanks   (which is very suitable)


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

pennimania said:


> I am sporting a very nice pink lace bra thanks   (which is very suitable)


 
I think strung out was planning to etc 

Cook is grinding me down now, never mind them.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Anything pink on?


 
No. I could get my Palermo shirt out if that would help.


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

here. got pink socks on.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

I've got a DVD of Middlesex winning the Twenty20 championship. I could balance that on my head.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

There's a somerset player in there.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Do you think Cook even knows what the score is?


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

What's this.....


----------



## pennimania (Jan 5, 2011)

Cook's moved up into the top 5 English players in the Ashes 

hope posting this doesn't spoil his luck - but he's just moved to 99 - OH NO!!!!

it's my fault


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

bowedn looked like not out, his face never said out...


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Cheating motherfucker.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

You bloody bloody cheat

Disgraceful


----------



## agricola (Jan 5, 2011)

lol @ hughes, you cheat


----------



## ferrelhadley (Jan 5, 2011)

lol


----------



## pennimania (Jan 5, 2011)

Oh thank god ....


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

hahahaah brilliant!


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Whio was the catchee?


----------



## yardbird (Jan 5, 2011)

It fucking bounced - he must have known!


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

What a rat


----------



## agricola (Jan 5, 2011)

fair dinkums to the crowd for booing him as well


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Pip Hughes


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

That wasn't even close you desperate cheating Aussie fuck


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

Is this what they're reduced to now? So sad.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

What a fucking idiot.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Gower just pinned it on clarke.


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 5, 2011)

Just come in from asda's was greeted by a review of cook.Beer is getting desperate


----------



## Dr. Furface (Jan 5, 2011)

Sir Ian is displeased.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

'pretty ordinary'


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

shagnasty said:


> Just come in from asda's was greeted by a review of cook.Beer is getting desperate


 
nothing to do with him, it was Hughes claiming the catch


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> nothing to do with him, it was Hughes claiming the catch


 
The replay seems to show him thinking 'Ooh, that was close', and then he looks up to see everyone appealing and goes along with it.


----------



## pennimania (Jan 5, 2011)

Well thank god for that 

I am following it on the radio so I can't see what's happening for myself.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

And that's how you score an Ashes century, Phil Hughes. Watch and learn.

The look on Cook's face when that catch was claimed was pretty murderous for a man who doesn't seem very expressive


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Well played AC. Job half done.


----------



## agricola (Jan 5, 2011)

This is an old topic I know, but what exactly did Hauritz do that has made these inadequates get in ahead of him?  Pubes on Pontings toothbrush?  Bowling Watson whilst he was in the mid-40s?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

pennimania said:


> Well thank god for that
> 
> I am following it on the radio so I can't see what's happening for myself.


 
this is exactly why the radio sucks for coverage of cricket


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Apparently only Hussey applauded the century.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

agricola said:


> This is an old topic I know, but what exactly did Hauritz do that has made these inadequates get in ahead of him?  Pubes on Pontings toothbrush?  Bowling Watson whilst he was in the mid-40s?


 
There is a rumour that he used to pull a sickie ('nursing a shoulder injury') when he wasn't interested in playing. I have no idea if that's true or not.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Cook needs 25 more to become the highest scoring English opener in an Australian Ashes series since Herbert Sutcliffe in 1924/25

He's already broken Boycott's post war Ashes tour record

He needs 68 more for 1000 runs in the 2010/11 Australian season


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> Apparently only Hussey applauded the century.


 
True.


----------



## pennimania (Jan 5, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> this is exactly why the radio sucks for coverage of cricket


 
it has its compensations you know - much more entertaining commentators for starters. I first learnt about cricket from listening to Radio 3


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Botham getting rightly wound up and gower egging him on quietly but correctly.


----------



## agricola (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> Apparently only Hussey applauded the century.


 
Fitting, as he (and perhaps Haddin) is the only one of that lot to emerge with any credit whatsoever from this campaign.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> There is a rumour that he used to pull a sickie ('nursing a shoulder injury') when he wasn't interested in playing. I have no idea if that's true or not.


 
That's pretty much what I've heard. Supposedly this is why he didn't play at the Oval in 2009


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Would you want to be sat on a plane next to Botham?


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> this is exactly why the radio sucks for coverage of cricket


 
radio is the best, with the telly on mute.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> Would you want to be sat on a plane next to Botham?


 
Yes i would.

Is beer ever going to get him out?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

Colly's poor form continues.


----------



## agricola (Jan 5, 2011)

Collingwood falls to Beer.  The shame!


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

No need for that one at this time colly.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> TestMatchSofa is the best, with the telly on mute.


 
fixed


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> That's pretty much what I've heard. Supposedly this is why he didn't play at the Oval in 2009


 
If that was true you'd think that it would have been reported at the time (that he was injured) but my memory is that Ponting just didn't want a spinner.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

pennimania said:


> it has its compensations you know - much more entertaining commentators for starters. I first learnt about cricket from listening to Radio 3


 
Fair enough, just never been a radio fan for cricket myself, and have done that a few times only to get frustrated by not seeing anything. Couldn't careless about commentary, though i don't think sky's commentary is that bad.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

agricola said:


> Collingwood falls to Beer.  The shame!


 
Good swap for hussey's wicket.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

When the match is very tense (like batting out a draw) I find the radio much less stressful.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Fair enough, just never been a radio fan for cricket myself, and have done that a few times only to get frustrated by not seeing anything. Couldn't careless about commentary, though i don't think sky's commentary is that bad.


 
it is that bad, Botham and Warne for a start


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> it is that bad, Botham and Warne for a start


 
Don't see the prob.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

The soothing tones of Michael Holding...


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> it is that bad, Botham and Warne for a start


 
Warne is a great commentator now. Get him with the right person and it's as good as you can get.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Warne is a great commentator now. Get him with the right person and it's as good as you can get.


 
Between Channel 9 & Sky, supposedly he parrots things said by other people on the 'other' channel. And thinks it hasn't been noticed.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Between Channel 9 & Sky, supposedly he parrots things said by other people on the 'other' channel. And thinks it hasn't been noticed.


 
I can't judge on that ...on sky he knows exactly what he's talking about - technically and in terms of wider stuff.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Don't see the prob.


 
Botham is a massive cock and adds about as much insight as Shearer manages to on MOTD. He looks like a fucking bus driver in that short sleeved shirt and is the walking, talking personification of narrow minded middle England.

That's all


----------



## pennimania (Jan 5, 2011)

I think I'll go to bed - I don't want another wicket!


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I can't judge on that ...on sky he knows exactly what he's talking about - technically and in terms of wider stuff.


 
I've only come across it from people who follow both channels' coverage online. Someone will say summat on Sky, then Warne will trot out the same view as his own when he's doing his Channel 9 stint. Amused me when I read it, didn't really surprise me


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

You've only mentioned two guys anyway btw, and don't really mind Warne myself. There's alot of insight that gets mentioned through the day. and can be entertaining. I'm not sure what else people expect. I never exactly found the radio commentary brillaintly insightful myself tbh.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Botham is a massive cock and adds about as much insight as Shearer manages to on MOTD. He looks like a fucking bus driver in that short sleeved shirt and is the walking, talking personification of narrow minded middle England.
> 
> That's all


 What's wrong with bus drivers?

He offers very little but then again neither does Vaughan. Now and again he (botham) does have something to say based on experience or what he's spotted as a bowler. And that stuff is very often spot on, something missed by others.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Next Ashes England might play Sussex leg-spinner Will Beer and we can have a Beer Off.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

I find Vaughan quite off-putting. He's still a back-seat Captain.

Atherton's worth a listen though.


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 5, 2011)

pennimania said:


> it has its compensations you know - much more entertaining commentators for starters. I first learnt about cricket from listening to Radio 3


 
I did too on an old fidelity radio ,many hours spent under the tree in the garden soaking in the sometimes sun


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What's wrong with bus drivers?
> 
> He offers very little but then again neither does Vaughan. Now and again he does have something to say based on experience or what he's spotted as a bowler. And that stuff is very often spot on, something missed by others.


 
Don't start me

Yeah, Vaughan's shit n all. Hussain's OK.

Mind you, by all accounts Channel 9 is dreadful. Mark Taylor, Ian Healy & Shane Warne - the full pantheon of cheating Aussies. Tony Greig as well.

I'll live without either


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> I find Vaughan quite off-putting. He's still a back-seat Captain.
> 
> Atherton's worth a listen though.



i edited above to say that i meant botham sometimes has something to say not Vaughn.

Atherton is ok, nasser is ok. Lloyd is actually very perceptive under the comedy act. 

No moaning willis on sky.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Yeah, Sky shunted Willis off to the lesser studio based shows


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Willis does the evening post-mortem.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

I do enjoy the occasional Willis moan though. He doesn't give a shit.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

Oh god willis was bloody awful.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

aussies bowling tight at the moment...


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

how slow is this outfield? Don't think we've seen a boundary for about 15 overs.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> how slow is this outfield? Don't think we've seen a boundary for about 15 overs.


 
Happy now?!


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> how slow is this outfield? Don't think we've seen a boundary for about 15 overs.


 
there's one


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

I believe that Alistair Cook has now broken John Edrich's England record for length of time batted in an Ashes series

which aint bad considering he only batted once at Adelaide and Melbourne


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

He don't half go on that McGrath.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

only one, and it didn't exactly rocket over the ropes!


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Holding should ask him why he couldn't get Mullally out at Melbourne in 1998


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> He don't half go on that McGrath.


 
I think he's nervous ...


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

that's more like it


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> I believe that Alistair Cook has now broken John Edrich's England record for length of time batted in an Ashes series
> 
> which aint bad considering he only batted once at Adelaide and Melbourne


 
I've read now that he's actually batted for longer than any other England batsman in any series ever. Wow.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Cook biggest scoring Ashes opener in Australia since Sutcliffe in 1924/25

I want to marry that square drive


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

And yet another Cook stat - currently the highest average of any batsman in an Ashes series

Edit: he is now GUARANTEED a series average of over 100


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Former Australia captain Ian Chappell believes that England's decision to put faith in Alastair Cook for the winter's Ashes series is "a hell of a gamble".


----------



## agricola (Jan 5, 2011)

Mitchell Johnson getting mocked by a stand full of pink-clad men has to be one of the iconic images of this sporting year, surely.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

agricola said:


> Mitchell Johnson getting mocked by a stand full of pink-clad men has to be one of the iconic images of this sporting year, surely.


 
whatever happens, Mitchell's always got that role in Twilight waiting for him


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

I believe that the weight of Alastair Cook's runs is effecting the orbit of the moon.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Hughes though, what a rat. How can you go through life like that?


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Hughes though, what a rat. How can you go through life like that?


 
Let's hope he scrapes enough runs together to visit England in 2013.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Former Australia captain Ian Chappell believes that England's decision to put faith in Alastair Cook for the winter's Ashes series is "a hell of a gamble".


 
Not a betting man then Chappelli?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> Let's hope he scrapes enough runs together to visit England in 2013.


 
Who've they got inbetween - do you know?


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Alistair Cook averages 191 in innings of 100+ apparently

Also, the sprinkler dance is apparently a tribute to Mitchell Johnson's bowling action*






























































*I may have made this up


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Who've they got inbetween - do you know?


 
Bangladesh in August is the next one. Future tours programme finishes in 2012 unfortunately so it's a bit up in the air

SA away, NZ home, WI away is their November 2011 - April 2012 schedule


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Should be easy runs for a player like him in the run in...please



> After a long consultation, they referred the decision to the third umpire. Replays seem to confirm that the ball may not have carried for a clean catch


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Who've they got inbetween - do you know?


 
Sri Lanka and South Africa this year according to the ICC future tours programme, then India and West Indies.

A weak WI attack might be the perfect time for his comeback.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> Sri Lanka and South Africa this year according to the ICC future tours programme.


 
Ta. See above, i think the SL is canceled/about to be.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Alistair Cook averages 191 in innings of 100+ apparently


 
here's the proof

That's a list of highest averages in Tests for innings of over 100. Cook's only 19th on the list - Shiv Chanderpaul top with an average of 281 once he passes 100


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Ta. See above, i think the SL is canceled/about to be.



Yep, SL is cancelled. They were due to host Zim as well, obviously that's off


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm off to listen to TMS under the duvet.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

There is no way I will ever share a bed with Boycott


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

test match sofa just launched a cracking diatribe about the coalition and liberals.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> test match sofa just launched a cracking diatribe about the coalition and liberals.


 
it was fantastic


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Run the ones and twos like that it'll be a 100 lead very soon 

what is test match sofa?


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

You cheating gobshite


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Run the ones and twos like that it'll be a 100 lead very soon
> 
> what is test match sofa?


 
People sitting on a sofa in Peckham, watching the Sky coverage and commentating on it. Quite funny, sweary and a godsend for people around the world unable to get television coverage or TMS commentary

http://www.testmatchsofa.com/


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Does anyone think johnson understands what cricket is  what he's doing and why?


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Does anyone think johnson understands what cricket is  what he's doing and why?


 
No. He hasn't the faintest idea how it is he bowls well and therefore no idea how to repeat it or correct it when it's going wrong. He's become more fascinating to me as the series has gone by, his line seems to range through anywhere within a 45 degree arc from the point of delivery


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Cook's series total now the 24th highest ever. Just overtaken Ponting's best effort (706)


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Cook's series total now the 24th highest ever. Just overtaken Ponting's best effort (706)


that's very impressive.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

Beer and Watson the pick of the Aussie bowling today? *sniggers*


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

are the barmy army now singing "we've all had matilda"?


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> Beer and Watson the pick of the Aussie bowling today? *sniggers*


 
Watson still has fewer series wickets than XDo


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

150 for cook!


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> are the barmy army now singing "we've all had matilda"?


 
I've shagged Matilda, I've shagged Matilda
I've shagged Matilda and so have my mates...

Bit odd to be singing about shagging a roll up mattress but there you go


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

clap clap clap Cook 150  great effort.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Who clapped this time. Hussey alone.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> I've shagged Matilda, I've shagged Matilda
> I've shagged Matilda and so have my mates...


lol 




> Bit odd to be singing about shagging a roll up mattress but there you go


 what? over my head that one...


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> People sitting on a sofa in Peckham, watching the Sky coverage and commentating on it. Quite funny, sweary and a godsend for people around the world unable to get television coverage or TMS commentary
> 
> http://www.testmatchsofa.com/


aha! very good.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Who clapped this time. Hussey alone.


 
saving their energy for the double


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Who clapped this time. Hussey alone.


 
it's funny when they're losing


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> what? over my head that one...


 
The 'Waltzing Matilda' of the song refers to the Jolly Swagman's swag, which is his rolled up bedding, slung over his shoulder and swaying as he walks. Therefore he is said to be 'waltzing' his 'Matilda' 



Paulie Tandoori said:


> aha! very good.


 
It's great. Richie Benaud & Tony Greig impersonations, daft jingles and some very knowledgeable cricket chat. I love it. Also, no cliches


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> The 'Waltzing Matilda' of the song refers to the Jolly Swagman's swag, which is his rolled up bedding, slung over his shoulder and swaying as he walks. Therefore he is said to be 'waltzing' his 'Matilda'


Ah right, thanks for the knowledge


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

Warnie talking up his prodige...


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> Ah right, thanks for the knowledge


 
There's a whole museum devoted to the song in Queensland. I've been there


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 5, 2011)

Cook is a class act ,when he reaches a mile stone like 150 he gets his head down to reach the next mile stone.a lot of batsman tend to lose concentration


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

shagnasty said:


> Cook is a class act ,when he reaches a mile stone like 150 he gets his head down to reach the next mile stone.a lot of batsman tend to lose concentration


immense isn't it? He's had a lot of luck in this series, but earnt it.

(I do think it's important that people realise that he's probably not going to have a series like this ever again. I think Vaughan's great series down under had a pretty negative effect on his batting long term...)


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Even if he doesn't, with 5000 Test runs at the age of 26 he is easily on course to pass 10,000 Test runs in his career, something no Englishman has ever done


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> immense isn't it? He's had a lot of luck in this series, but earnt it.
> 
> (I do think it's important that people realise that he's probably not going to have a series like this ever again. I think Vaughan's great series down under had a pretty negative effect on his batting long term...)


 That's really not important.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Cook, Trott, Bell & KP all currently averaging over 60 for the series.

And I really don't think Cook's had that much luck, other than having to face this dreadful bowling attack


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Let's drop them because historically doing good never works.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Cook, Trott, Bell & KP all currently averaging over 60 for the series.
> 
> And I really don't think Cook's had that much luck, other than having to face this dreadful bowling attack


 
can't remember that happening to an england touring side, ever!


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Hadddin appeals for that one!


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Hadddin appeals for that one!


 
Haddin appeals whenever he pulls off a decent take. It's what Aussie wicketkeepers do, they're all cheats


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

He didn't for hughes little escapade though...


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> immense isn't it? He's had a lot of luck in this series, but earnt it.
> 
> (I do think it's important that people realise that he's probably not going to have a series like this ever again. I think Vaughan's great series down under had a pretty negative effect on his batting long term...)


 
Actually, to take this up further - after Vaughan's 2002/3 series, he went on to score huge runs against India the following summer. What stuffed him was becoming captain during the South Africa series and then his recurring injuries. I'm not sure it's fair to say he somehow declined because of that great series he had


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Mark Nicholas fawning all over Julia Gillard on Channel 9 apparently


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Actually, to take this up further - after Vaughan's 2002/3 series, he went on to score huge runs against India the following summer. What stuffed him was becoming captain during the South Africa series and then his recurring injuries. I'm not sure it's fair to say he somehow declined because of that great series he had



perhaps you're right. I just seem to remember that after that series, expectation rose, and people looked to him as the talisman, don't think he ever had another series like it...


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Cook stat watch: one more run for his 1000th First Class run of the tour


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> perhaps you're right. I just seem to remember that after that series, expectation rose, and people looked to him as the talisman, don't think he ever had another series like it...


 
He didn't really, and he never made the double ton he should have, got out in the 180s and 190s all the time. But the reasons were more to do with pressure of captaincy and injury than anything else


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Cook stat watch: one more run for his 1000th First Class run of the tour


 
there it is, 1000 runs up


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

sky sports trying to jinx Cook.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Apologies for the deluge of Ally Cook related stats but his series really has been remarkable. He's still a couple of hours off Mark Taylor's all time record for length of time batted in a series (1989 Ashes) but Taylor had 11 innings on that tour. Cook is currently only batting for the seventh time in Tests on this tour.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 5, 2011)

nice knock from bell as well.


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 5, 2011)

Yes lets hope he can go on for a century


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> nice knock from bell as well.


 
He's a beautiful batsman to watch. Cook's much more watchable these days but Bell is fantastic


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Only Hammond to beat now in terms of runs in a series

Just the odd 150 more to get Ally


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Smith & Beer on - are Australia trying to encourage the declaration?


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Cook past Bradman's 1934 haul of 758 runs

and so it goes on


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

hussey coming on to bowl now. wicket imminent i reckon.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

when do we reckon Khawaja, Hughes and Haddin get a bowl then?


----------



## JimW (Jan 5, 2011)

We'll take tea from the driving seat, thanks very much


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 5, 2011)

strange feeling this, into the 3rd day of final match and taking control in a big way. fingers crossed for the weather now, cos i think they can do a job here tbh.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> strange feeling this, into the 3rd day of final match and taking control in a big way. fingers crossed for the weather now, cos i think they can do a job here tbh.


 
yep, bat the possibility of an Australian win out of sight and open up the possibility of an innings win. Again


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

disaster!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 5, 2011)

doh!


----------



## JimW (Jan 5, 2011)

Shame  Cracking knock though. Someone check the butties for Aus tampering


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm actually pretty gutted about that. Only player ever to score two doubles in an Ashes series is Bradman. So close.

Edit: sorry, Hammond managed two in a series as well


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

The horror, the horror


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Not. Out.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Not. Out.


 
Except snicko says it was


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> The horror, the horror


warney has got a nubby as well


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> warney has got a nubby as well


 
he always does


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Except snicko says it was


 
Channel 9 reckon third umpire gave Dar the choice of whether to keep his original decision but told him hotspot showed nothing. Turns out Dar was right first time


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Well I never thought I'd see Matt Prior run out by Aleem Dar


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 5, 2011)

still haven't


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 5, 2011)

oh yes! well done ian bell


----------



## JimW (Jan 5, 2011)

Well done young man, dodgy review not withstanding


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 5, 2011)

Congrats bell.A 250 lead looks on the cards


----------



## JimW (Jan 5, 2011)

Over the top!


----------



## JimW (Jan 5, 2011)

And that more of a steer. Ticking along nicely.


----------



## JimW (Jan 5, 2011)

Got it! And the 200 lead already of course


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 5, 2011)

50 from prior .The only batsmen to not do well is colly .Bell may have got more runs higher up the order


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 5, 2011)

whoops.


----------



## JimW (Jan 5, 2011)

Missed that having a gloating read of comments on Oz sites. Will have to watch the replay. Prior next for century then!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 5, 2011)

looking good for it tbh.


----------



## JimW (Jan 5, 2011)

Hard to see what he light's like on this crappy web stream, but looks like that's it for the day


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## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

didn't watch the last session, but when I turned in, Bell was looking magisterial, glad he made good and got a ton. Bat all first session tomorrow to really rub the aussies noses in it. Pitch was playing pretty benignly today, but you just can't see this Aussie team posting any massive totals.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

If we're still batting at lunch, that could be a 300+ lead. Then 150 overs left in the match to bowl Australia out


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 5, 2011)

250 lead easily within their grasp 300 possible but even if aussie could get any where near 450 /500 there's not enough time .3-1 on the cards


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

OK, I'll be first to defend Ian Bell - I honestly think from his discussion with Prior before reviewing that he must have heard a noise but not actually felt anything hit the bat. I don't think he deserves being called a cheat (which some will) and he's within his rights to review such an extremely marginal call. Not in the same league as the Hughes 'catch'


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

South Africa in a spot of bother in Cape Town - 100/5, just 98 runs ahead


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

Great night's cricket again. Smith and Beer? Are they really the best spinners Australia has to offer? Absolute shite! 

Hussey and Siddle are the only two players from Australia I would have in my side - the rest are crap.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

If you had to pick a team from the players we've seen in this series, it would basically be England but with Hussey instead of Colly.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 5, 2011)

Haddin vs. Prior?


----------



## mattie (Jan 5, 2011)

Prior, just because of Haddin's face.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 5, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> given our batting performances in Brisbane, Adelaide and Melbourne, I really don't see why that should be that big an 'ask'


quoted for posterity!





and the usual smugness


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 5, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Haddin vs. Prior?


Prior, better glovework and we don't need someone at No 7 to dig us out of a hole (unless we're playing in perth). don't even agree with Idaho re; siddle, I'd take opur seamers, all of 'em, over siddle.


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

anyone see this in the SA vs India match yesterday? ball absolutely whacks the stumps but the bails don't come off.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Apologies for the deluge of Ally Cook related stats but his series really has been remarkable. He's still a couple of hours off Mark Taylor's all time record for length of time batted in a series (1989 Ashes) but Taylor had 11 innings on that tour. Cook is currently only batting for the seventh time in Tests on this tour.


Christ, Imagine the runs he'd have got if Australia had enough batsman to make him do a full 5 days work!


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> anyone see this in the SA vs India match yesterday? ball absolutely whacks the stumps but the bails don't come off.




Bloody cheats, appealing on that.


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

the bail is under investigation for match fixing


----------



## mattie (Jan 5, 2011)

Steyn took it well.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

Just seen the Bell incident, i always wonder why they use the hot spot but not that other thing that i've forgotten the name of that showed he was out. Not that i'm complaining in this case, serves Aussies right for cheating earlier!


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 5, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Just seen the Bell incident, i always wonder why they use the hot spot but not that other thing that i've forgotten the name of that showed he was out. Not that i'm complaining in this case, serves Aussies right for cheating earlier!



Hot spot is instant but there's a delay getting snicko, so for speed they don't use it other than on the telly


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

Oh, that would explain it then.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Jan 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Great night's cricket again. Smith and Beer? Are they really the best spinners Australia has to offer? Absolute shite!
> 
> Hussey and Siddle are the only two players from Australia I would have in my side - the rest are crap.


 
thought Beer was alright. Bowled with discipline was just led down by loose stuff at the other end. He's not terribly penetrative, but the Aussies have got to stop searching for the new Warne anyway. Work with what they've got...


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Cook has batted for 36 hours in this series, or the equivalent of six days of Test cricket. And on the seventh day he shall rest.




Stole that off the Guardian.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

mattie said:


> Prior, just because of Haddin's face.


 
Prior easily. Better with the gloves and the bat.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> Prior, better glovework and we don't need someone at No 7 to dig us out of a hole (unless we're playing in perth). don't even agree with Idaho re; siddle, I'd take opur seamers, all of 'em, over siddle.


 
Currently I would also take all of ours over Siddle, but I think he's the best of theirs in terms of commitment and determination.

Is anyone else out there also starting to feel amorous stirrings whenever they see Cook batting? I'm as straight as a di, but I might make an exception for him.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

How many catches has he taken this series?

edit (Cook, not Prior)


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Amazing telling of the story in The Australian:



> Botham unfairly accused Hughes of claiming a catch that bounced as even technology conspired against the frustrated Australians during another demoralising day.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

I thought our journos were partisan - but their's seem divorced from reality at times.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Another one for Santino's log -  a little more nuanced this time:



> As we all know, in terms of audiences, earnings and bureaucratic power, the locus of the game moved some years ago to the Indian subcontinent, where cricket's potential as a vehicle for corruption has already been well demonstrated. The celebration of the traditional Australia-England rivalry jars with the realities of cricket in the modern era.



Humiliating defeat is good and healthy, a sign of psychological well-being:



> Like England and Australia, the king and Logue share the bonds of friendship. Tellingly, it is the Englishman who is held back by the weight of his past, not the Australian.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

I know no one really cares but spanker roebuck got in another dig in his long running and losing feud with Botham



> To make matters worse, Australia's conqueror has a pleasant air: firm and yet polite. Flingers eager to fight a lion find themselves subdued by a pussy cat. Without upsetting anyone, he declines to be pushed around, stands his ground in the face of wrathful bowlers and even fieldsmen convinced they have held him. Cook defied the home captain in Brisbane, and survived again as Phillip Hughes first claimed and then questioned a low catch. That a former England champion saw fit to accuse the short leg of cheating says nothing about the fielder and everything about him.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Haddin vs. Prior?


 
Haddin's scored more runs but Prior's not had as many opportunities. Haddin's conceded more byes but to be fair he's also had to keep to Johnson. Prior's claimed more victims but he's had the better bowlers to keep to. Tough one, I'll go with Prior.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

More on Bell/hotspot etc. Remember back in Brisbane when England were convinced Hussey had got an edge, hotspot showed nothing and Hussey went on to 190-odd? With England losing a referral into the bargain. What comes around, goes around. Besides, it's not as though hotspot is flawed, yet snicko is infallible. Both have drawbacks and the best we can say is that the use of available technology reduces errors but doesn't eliminate them - and there will always be some edges just too fine to be certain of, even if you're holding the bat.

In the light of Cook's comments re: Haddin and Hughes immediately saying they weren't sure whether the catch had carried, I'm prepared to withdraw my 'cheat' slurs from last night


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Yeah fair does. Didn't _look_ very bloody _i'm not sure_ though.


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> In the light of Cook's comments re: Haddin and Hughes immediately saying they weren't sure whether the catch had carried, I'm prepared to withdraw my 'cheat' slurs from last night


 
i bet botham doesn't though, somerset twat (sorry butch)


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

I think Cook was doing that posh thing of covering for the enemy.

If the ball bounces up into your hands you don't even dream of appealing  - a scoop, yes, maybe...not one you _know_ came upwards...


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> I think Cook was doing that posh thing of covering for the enemy.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Is anyone else out there also starting to feel amorous stirrings whenever they see Cook batting? I'm as straight as a di, but I might make an exception for him.


Edges away very nervously indeed!


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Haddin and Hughes immediately saying they weren't sure whether the catch had carried,


which wouldn't explain Haddin leaping like he'd been jabbed with a cattle prod the moment he saw Clarke go up for the catch


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

There's always been a fair bit of 'crowd catching' and 'optimistic appealing' in cricket. I don't think it's worth making that much of a fuss about it. As to whether he knew it bounced? Well, the right decision came out in the end. 

Likewise with the Bell 'edge' - we can't know for certain whether he edged it (although it's likely he did), and we can't know for certain whether if he did edge it, he knew it. So go with the umps decision, and get on with the game.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> There's always been a fair bit of 'crowd catching' and 'optimistic appealing' in cricket. I don't think it's worth making that much of a fuss about it. As to whether he knew it bounced? Well, the right decision came out in the end.
> 
> Likewise with the Bell 'edge' - we can't know for certain whether he edged it (although it's likely he did), and we can't know for certain whether if he did edge it, he knew it. So go with the umps decision, and get on with the game.



These are two totally different things. A bumped ball that looks like a catch from the stand and a catch you know you didn't take. It's irrelevant if the right decision came out in the end - that's the whole fucking point of the anger.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 5, 2011)

In my early hours daze did I hear someone comment Snicko is less reliable than HotSpot, HotSpot being about 96-97% reliable?

Fuck knows how they assess reliability, but maybe that's another question . . .


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

Well I think it's daft to be angry about it. He may not have known he didn't take it. He may have been 'overuled' by the excitement (desperation) of his more senior colleagues, etc.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> In my early hours daze did I hear someone comment Snicko is less reliable than HotSpot, HotSpot being about 96-97% reliable?
> 
> Fuck knows how they assess reliability, but maybe that's another question . . .


 
Snicko is coincidental - it just shows _a_ sound occuring at the time the ball passes bat.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

SA have set India 340 to win on the final day after being only 100 ahead with five down. Kallis made an unbeaten century.

That's gonna be worth watching then.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> As to whether he knew it bounced? Well, the right decision came out in the end.


For my part, I'd like to think there's still _some_ code of sportsmanship in this game -it's one of the things that makes it special


----------



## Ted Striker (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> SA have set India 340 to win on the final day after being only 100 ahead with five down. Kallis made an unbeaten century.
> 
> That's gonna be worth watching then.


 
Been on this all day, amazing cricket match going on. Tendulkers delivery to dismiss the tail ender was the stuff of playground!


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> For my part, I'd like to think there's still _some_ code of sportsmanship in this game -it's one of the things that makes it special


 
The thing with sportsmanship is that you need to back off and let it happen. If you go straight to defcon 1 every time you perceive that you've been wronged, and assume the other side have the worst possible motives, then you've played your part in eradicating sportsmanship.

It's similar to the relationship between politicians and journos. The latter are looking for any possible angle to make a story so the politicians provide them with a practiced and airbrushed answer that gives no insight at all because they know they will be crucified otherwise.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> The thing with sportsmanship is that you need to back off and let it happen. If you go straight to defcon 1 every time you perceive that you've been wronged, and assume the other side have the worst possible motives, then you've played your part in eradicating sportsmanship.
> 
> It's similar to the relationship between politicians and journos. The latter are looking for any possible angle to make a story so the politicians provide them with a practiced and airbrushed answer that gives no insight at all because they know they will be crucified otherwise.



No, you call cheating when you see it. Not when it might not be. Let those ones go. Why are you having problems with this?


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 5, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> In my early hours daze did I hear someone comment Snicko is less reliable than HotSpot, HotSpot being about 96-97% reliable?
> 
> Fuck knows how they assess reliability, but maybe that's another question . . .


hold on, I presume that's a probability question....CAAALLLIIING KAAAABBBEEESSS!!!


----------



## kabbes (Jan 5, 2011)

A discussion about reliability is more interesting than it first seems, actually.

Errors are generally divided into "Type I" (hang an innocent man) and "Type II" (let a guilty man go free).  You generally focus on avoiding Type I because it is generally considered to be more serious.  So it might be that you are 99% reliable on this basis and this is what is quoted.  But this says nothing at all about the Type II error!

When quoting reliability they should really quote the probability of BOTH error types.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> If you go straight to defcon 1 every time you perceive that you've been wronged, and assume the other side have the worst possible motives, then you've played your part in eradicating sportsmanship.


I don't think it's a case of 'going to defcon 1' every time, as you put it! it's simply a case of acknowledging an unwritten but universal ethical code, expecting all to abide by it, and then making clear one's disapproval when someone acts in a manner that is - excuse the pun - 'simply not cricket'.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> No, you call cheating when you see it. Not when it might not be. Let those ones go. Why are you having problems with this?


 
Because I find myopic, partisan braying far more annoying than the odd bit of (unsuccessful) gamesmanship.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> I don't think it's a case of 'going to defcon 1' every time, as you put it! it's simply a case of acknowledging an unwritten but universal ethical code, expecting all to abide by it, and then making clear one's disapproval when someone acts in a manner that is - excuse the pun - 'simply not cricket'.


 
If they got away with it, then perhaps one might make clear one's disapproval. But seeing as they didn't, one can merely sit back in serene natural-justice-laden smugness


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Because I find myopic, partisan braying far more annoying than the odd bit of (unsuccessful) gamesmanship.


 
Or, you enjoy painting those who disagree as this. Fair play.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> If they got away with it, then perhaps one might make clear one's disapproval. But seeing as they didn't, one can merely sit back in serene natural-justice-laden smugness


 
In that case you're indulging in  the same instrumental thinking as the cheat. It's not whether they got away with it or not, but that they cheated in the first place.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Or, you enjoy painting those who disagree as this. Fair play.


 
butchersapron - if you were one of the more well-balanced, rational and agreeable posters on the board, then I might give ground. But as it is, you'll just have to put up with it.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Because I find myopic, partisan braying far more annoying than the odd bit of (unsuccessful) gamesmanship.


 

In what way is 



> No, you call cheating when you see it. Not when it might not be. Let those ones go. Why are you having problems with this?





> myopic, partisan braying



btw?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> butchersapron - if you were one of the more well-balanced, rational and agreeable posters on the board, then I might give ground. But as it is, you'll just have to put up with it.


 
Yep, off you go. Even billy is telling you to leave.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 5, 2011)

Idaho said:


> If they got away with it, then perhaps one might make clear one's disapproval. But seeing as they didn't, one can merely sit back in serene natural-justice-laden smugness


no, you don't! It's the unsporting behaviour that's the real issue, not whether the umpires (and a couple of bits of technowizardry) were up to spotting it.
e2a: this sportsmanship is intrinsic to the game's soul and ethos. I(f you want to see the dangers of 'relaxing on this' - look at football.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

I haven't seen the footage yet, but it seems to me that both Hughes and Bell knew they were wrong and were trying to pull fast ones. 

It's nothing new, and neither is Botham's reaction. I remember him having a right go at the Pakistani wicketkeeper once for claiming a catch on the half-volley. I agree with him in this case, particularly where the offender plays for a side still officially captained by a man who wants to see the introduction of a 'take the fielder's word for it' code. But I also think what Bell did was just as bad. If the Australians and the umpire could tell he'd nicked it, he sure as hell will be able to tell, and more's the point, so should the man at the other end, Prior. 

Technology failed and I feel sorry for Aleem Dar, who had little choice but to overturn his own correct decision. There might need to be a change in the way hotspot is used, to allow for the 'false negatives' problem kabbes highlighted – if it shows a nick, it's almost certainly right, but if it doesn't show a nick, it should not be used as evidence and it should go with umpire's decision (assuming the live shot can't show a gap between ball and bat).


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

but surely it just comes down to letting the odd guilty person off, to make sure that you don't 'condemn' any innocent batsmen. i'd rather be giving the batsman the benefit of the doubt, particularly when hotspot has got a very high level of accuracy compared to snickometer which firstly has to be frame matched to the footage, and even then doesn't prove that the sound necessarily came from bat hitting ball (although it is of course pretty likely)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm sure Aleem Dar believes in giving the batsman the benefit of the doubt too. But he heard a noise, so there was no doubt in his mind. He was left in an impossible position – he couldn't overturn hotspot as if snicko had gone on to show no noise as he'd have looked inept.

Hotspot is a perfect example of the adage 'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence'. It should be used accordingly.


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

well sure, it has to be beyond doubt, and if the hotspot shows nothing, then that should be sufficient doubt to rule the batsman not out. i don't see that there was a problem with the decision. obviously aleem dar heard a sound but there's no way of telling where that sound came from, which is why they use hotspot. hotspot showed the batsman to be not out (or at least puts sufficient doubt into play to rule not out)


----------



## Idaho (Jan 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yep, off you go. Even billy is telling you to leave.


How come half your posts contain these cryptic statements that are doubtless witty were anyone to understand what you are talking about?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

The problem with the decision is that it was the wrong one! It shows that a good umpire can be a better judge than the available technology. It led to a correct decision being overturned.


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

how do you know it was the wrong one? hotspot showed nothing, and snickometer showed there was a sound (from somewhere) at the time he hit the ball. still enough doubt for me to rule it not out.


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 5, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The problem with the decision is that it was the wrong one! It shows that a good umpire can be a better judge than the available technology. It led to a correct decision being overturned.



Both his decisions were correct at the time he made them.. I guess they need to develop snicko to produce data faster than it does?



strung out said:


> how do you know it was the wrong one? hotspot showed nothing, and snickometer showed there was a sound (from somewhere) at the time he hit the ball. still enough doubt for me to rule it not out.



Do slips still click their fingers when the ball is passing a batsman or was that just a Surrey 'plan'. A bit Baldrick and not enough to show up on snicko..


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

I have heard cricketers say that you can't always tell if you've nicked one. If it did touch the bat, it wasn't enough to visibly deviate the ball so it must have been the faintest of edges.


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> Do slips still click their fingers when the ball is passing a batsman or was that just a Surrey 'plan'. A bit Baldrick and not enough to show up on snicko..


 
yep, that sounds like surrey alright


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Re-starts at 11.00, remember.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

Just seen this now, and I agree with the Aussie commentators. Dar should have stuck with his original decision. Bell _definitely_ knew it was out, and it was shoddy to refer it. 

But worst of all, hotspot _did_ show a white spot. The third umpires need to be shown how to use the technology properly, ffs. 

Spoils it for me, this kind of incident. Spoils the game.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

I think Colly might announce his retirement from Tests today.


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> I think Colly might announce his retirement from Tests today.



Apparently he just has.. not announced it.. just more confirmation care of Mr Leaks


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Just seen this now, and I agree with the Aussie commentators. Dar should have stuck with his original decision. Bell _definitely_ knew it was out, and it was shoddy to refer it.
> 
> But worst of all, hotspot _did_ show a white spot. The third umpires need to be shown how to use the technology properly, ffs.
> 
> Spoils it for me, this kind of incident. Spoils the game.


 
Bullshit. Just seen it again and he was genuinely surprised to be given out.

Why are we assuming that Hotspot is wrong and snicko correct?

Seriously, it's perfectly possible to not know whether you've hit it or not. The conflicting evidence shows the edge, if it existed, was so fine it'd be easy for even the batsman to miss it. After he was given out, he looked surprised. When he was talking to Prior he looked surprised. Come on, we can't just assume that he 'knew', there's nothing to suggest he did and saying he did is unfair to a decent bloke.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> Apparently he just has.. not announced it.. just more confirmation care of Mr Leaks


 
yep, he's told the team he's retiring


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> Bullshit. Just seen it again and he was genuinely surprised to be given out.
> 
> Why are we assuming that Hotspot is wrong and snicko correct?


 
Hotspot wasn't wrong. It showed a very faint, very brief spot. The adjudicators haven't been taught how to use it properly.

 Very very disappointing affair all round.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

One day the technology will develop so far that there will be arguments about what level of molecular interaction constitutes a nick.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

Bollocks. Bell took an _age_ to refer it. He knew he'd hit it, he knew it was a very faint nick, he hoped he'd be able to fool them. Shit way to go about things, every bit as shit as claiming a catch when you know it's bounced in my book.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> I think Colly might announce his retirement from Tests today.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


>


 
If he doesn't, he'll be dropped for good anyway. Average 15 in the last 10 tests – it couldn't go on. He got out to an awful shot today, and at a time when England were still 60 behind. He is no longer a man for the pressure situation, I'm afraid.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Bollocks. Bell took an _age_ to refer it. He knew he'd hit it, he knew it was a very faint nick, he hoped he'd be able to fool them. Shit way to go about things, every bit as shit as claiming a catch when you know it's bounced in my book.


Who's been bouncing balls in your book?! 







Sorry


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Bollocks. Bell took an _age_ to refer it. He knew he'd hit it, he knew it was a very faint nick, he hoped he'd be able to fool them. Shit way to go about things, every bit as shit as claiming a catch when you know it's bounced in my book.


 
It is quite a bold claim to say that he thought he could fool people by asking for a review. If he knew he'd hit it he was also risking being made to look like a liar.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> It is quite a bold claim to say that he thought he could fool people by asking for a review. If he knew he'd hit it he was also risking being made to look like a liar.


 
Look like a liar, but playing well and on course for his first test hundred. Worth the risk? It took him about 10 seconds to decide 'yes' in the end.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

It's easy to sit here hours after the event and try to work out what he was thinking in ten seconds in the middle of an Ashes Test match when he's been concentrating for hours on batting.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

It is easy, yes. And the answer is all too obvious.


----------



## fen_boy (Jan 5, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Bollocks. Bell took an _age_ to refer it. He knew he'd hit it, he knew it was a very faint nick, he hoped he'd be able to fool them.


 
That just doesn't make any sense, I think you're wrong.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Bollocks. Bell took an _age_ to refer it. He knew he'd hit it, he knew it was a very faint nick, he hoped he'd be able to fool them. Shit way to go about things, every bit as shit as claiming a catch when you know it's bounced in my book.


 
rubbish. You can't assume that. They've been told to consider every referral carefully by Flower so that's what he did. Perfectly reasonable to ask your partner if he saw any deviation when you don't know you've hit it.

Stop being an arse, really


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

England pass 500 for the fourth time in the series. Only the fifth time anyone's done that and first time for England


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

According to the Sky commentators, the first thing he said to Prior was 'I don't think I hit that' (or equivalent). Do you think he did that for the benefit of the cameras, having already worked out his intention to call for a review in the hope of deceiving the umpires by the time he'd walked a few feet?


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> If he doesn't, he'll be dropped for good anyway. Average 15 in the last 10 tests – it couldn't go on. He got out to an awful shot today, and at a time when England were still 60 behind. He is no longer a man for the pressure situation, I'm afraid.


 
that was hardly a pressure situation


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> that was hardly a pressure situation


 
Yes it was.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> Do you think he did that for the benefit of the cameras, having already worked out his intention to call for a review in the hope of deceiving the umpires by the time he'd walked a few feet?



Quite possibly, yes. It's what I'd do if I wanted to fool the umpire, and he's well used to the idea that the cameras can pick up everything he says. 

In fact, given that Aleem Dar was within earshot, that is the only thing he could possibly say. Sod the cameras, the umpire was the one to worry about.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> According to the Sky commentators, the first thing he said to Prior was 'I don't think I hit that' (or equivalent). Do you think he did that for the benefit of the cameras, having already worked out his intention to call for a review in the hope of deceiving the umpires by the time he'd walked a few feet?


 
I think he deliberately feathered a catch behind, mimiced surprise at being given out, referred it in the knowledge that it wouldn't show up and scored a century for the ultimate sledge


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Quite possibly, yes. It's what I'd do, and he's well used to the idea that the cameras can pick up everything he says.


 
you're trying a little too hard to condemn him when there's so much reasonable doubt it's impossible to do so


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Quite possibly, yes. It's what I'd do, and he's well used to the idea that the cameras can pick up everything he says.


 
Do you reckon Prior knew that was the plan and gave him fake advice to ask for a review? Perhaps Bell used a code word to signal that this was all a farce played for the cameras.


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> I think he deliberately feathered a catch behind, mimiced surprise at being given out, referred it in the knowledge that it wouldn't show up and scored a century for the ultimate sledge


 
well that's what i'd do


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Anway. England declaration? Can't see the point myself. The series win is an absolute priority, so might as well ensure there isn't even a theoretical chance of Australia snatching a draw from the jaws of defeat.


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> Anway. England declaration? Can't see the point myself. The series win is an absolute priority, so might as well ensure there isn't even a theoretical chance of Australia snatching a draw from the jaws of defeat.



Can't think of a run/wicket/time combination that would help force a win? Keep batting, more runs, still enough sessions to bowl them out.. versus letting them back in the game


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> Anway. England declaration? Can't see the point myself. The series win is an absolute priority, so might as well ensure there isn't even a theoretical chance of Australia snatching a draw from the jaws of defeat.


 
No need whatsoever. Just bat. Then, when we've finished, we win


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

The only way Oz would win is to finish off England for nothing right now, and then get bowled out for about 400 and bowl England out again in two sessions chasing what looked like an easy target.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 5, 2011)

No need to declare for hours yet. There is a need to play lots and lots of shots, which they are doing.


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

Colly needs 6 more catches to get 100 in Tests.


----------



## strung out (Jan 5, 2011)

get him to keep wicket


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

strung out said:


> get him to keep wicket


 
fairly sure he's done it before


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2011)

embree said:


> fairly sure he's done it before


 
2009 against the West Indies when Prior got injured.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

Santino said:


> 2009 against the West Indies when Prior got injured.


 
there you go then


----------



## ferrelhadley (Jan 5, 2011)

Prior is rocking along at a run a ball....


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 5, 2011)

Gotta feel for Monty just sitting there,lol.


----------



## embree (Jan 5, 2011)

oh, Australia's good bowler is on. The one who's county standard


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> oh, Australia's good bowler is on. The one who's county standard


 


Evening all


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Evening penni 

As you were - substandard filthy bowling and England building a platform for victory by an innings. Same old same old


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> Evening penni
> 
> As you were - substandard filthy bowling and England building a platform for victory by an innings. Same old same old


 
Oh I can live with that 

and they've got cake on the TMS broad(pod) cast - just like the old days


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Smith's on bowling his straight breaks


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 6, 2011)

the aussies look so rudderless, it's _almost_ painful.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

It's easy to look rudderless when the opposition's got 550.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

it's easy to look rudderless when you are


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

3 Aussies on a ton for the innings, Beer's century coming up


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## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

Quintuple Nelson! 

you know this is almost more than unbelievable to someone like me who's watched England struggle, throw it away, never get started or just plain die so many times - either they really have improved or the Aussies are now unbelievably bad.

I feel my daughter and I could bowl almost as well as this


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

They just need to find a couple of good quicks, a spinner and three batsmen, and they'll be competitive.


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## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

That is the first Ashes century for an England keeper since Jack Russell at Old trafford in 1989


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 6, 2011)

well done prior.


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

101 no 

well played sir


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

fastest Ashes century by an Englishman since Botham


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

6 of the top 7 now have centuries in the series. The other one has just retired out of shame


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

9 centuries - a record for England in the Ashes


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 6, 2011)

have been away from thread for few days - looks like i missed some amusement here! anyway, cricket - fucking excellent, we're going to thoroughly beat those aussie wankers and return the spirit of cricket to its rightful ancestral home. 

i wish beer would stop doing that thing with his tongue.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Healy has just described Johnson as 'one of the world's great fast bowlers' on Channel 9. There aren't enough lols in the world for that


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Bloody hell. Aussies take a great catch shocker.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Tim Bresnan fails with 35. He should retire


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## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

It's my fault - I was playing with the cat instead of concentrating 

perhaps I should go to bed..


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Anyone know what the fewest wickets England have lost in an Ashes series is?


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

First time ever in Test cricket that wickets 6, 7 & 8 have added 100+ each


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

How many off that over?


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

TestMatchSofa: "this is a rogering of truly epic proportions"


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## strung out (Jan 6, 2011)

not out!

brilliant


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 6, 2011)

Rofl


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> TestMatchSofa: "this is a rogering of truly epic proportions"


 
my broadbandconnection isn't fast enough for that - but it sounds great 

oh noes - Prior - oh it's a no ball ;D


----------



## strung out (Jan 6, 2011)

oh boo, what a load of shit. definitely a no ball (i've only got the radio)


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

he's given him out 

It was a no ball - are they trying not to annoy the sulky home team by doing it to them again?


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> oh boo, what a load of shit. definitely a no ball (i've only got the radio)


 
(((you and me)))


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

If he thinks it's a no ball, there's an established convention that he calls no ball and extends his arm horizontally.


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## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

they're entitled to ask for help. As are the batsmen


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## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

And now ' a hoik for six'


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

England's second highest ever innings score in Australia


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

20 from the over


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> oh boo, what a load of shit. definitely a no ball (i've only got the radio)


 
I felt his heel was on the line


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

According to TMS, the Aussies aren't applauding their opponents' milestones because 'their fingers would get too bruised'


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

shagnasty said:


> I felt his heel was on the line


 
on the line is a no ball


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

It was a clear no ball, I thought. 

But it was close. It just seems that close is not a no ball unless a wicket falls, which isn't a good way to do things to me.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It was a clear no ball, I thought.
> 
> But it was close. It just seems that close is not a no ball unless a wicket falls, which isn't a good way to do things to me.


 
tbh I feel every wicket should be checked for a no ball as a matter of course


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

I want this t-shirt:


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

Brilliant ball there


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

and now the German has forgotten how to bowl entirely

that's ridiculous, he dead balled it. Should have been no ball or wide


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

Nah, he just erm, "slipped".


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Billy's a bit confused.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 6, 2011)

Come on, let's get past that 636 before lunch so I can go to bed


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

TMS say this might be the first time there's been a 100 partnership for the 6th, 7th and 8th wickets!

Anyone?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

SpookyFrank said:


> Come on, let's get past that 636 before lunch so I can go to bed


 
gonna have to wait a bit


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

This innings has equaled England's highest ever score in Australia


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

pennimania said:


> TMS say this might be the first time there's been a 100 partnership for the 6th, 7th and 8th wickets!
> 
> Anyone?


 
I said that up there somewhere. This is definitely the case


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Swann kept getting singles. He had a 50 on there.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> This innings has equaled England's highest ever score in Australia


 
Sky keep beating you to these stats. Speed up abit!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> I said that up there somewhere. This is definitely the case


 
_Slightly_ distorted by the nightwatchman.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Sky keep beating you to these stats. Speed up abit!


 
Sky can fuck off


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

lol


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

You know, I can remember when we retained the Ashes in 1986 (it was Boxing day I think and I was drunk as a skunk) but I don't think we had them ground down like we do now.

And my god, I was a much more assiduous cricket fan than I am these days (life having got on top of me)


it's fucking great


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Yeah and the last Test of that series was arguably the start of Australia's long reign of terror


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

We didn't even bother to bring the fucking urn you plebs


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> Yeah and the last Test of that series was arguably the start of Australia's long reign of terror


 
does that mean we have to start panicking?  i can see that they will definitely be thinking hard about what they need to do - perhaps they should get Boycott to advise them? He's got LOTS of ideas


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

pennimania said:


> does that mean we have to start panicking?  i can see that they will definitely be thinking hard about what they need to do - perhaps they should get Boycott to advise them? He's got LOTS of ideas


 
no panic - the Sydney Test in 1987 we lost by miles, that was my point really. I'm not sure we're in much danger here


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 6, 2011)

Yay!

Record score in tests in Oz


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Limejuice said:


> Yay!
> 
> Record score in tests in Oz


 and two of the top three on this tour


----------



## Limejuice (Jan 6, 2011)

364 ahead.

Good innings.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

laughing my fucking ass off @ that run out.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

I love a good comedy run out - Hughes gets his revenge for Melbourne


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

As the ball came in Prior seemed to be pissing himself laughing - Twatto had turned and trotted off down the pitch completely oblivious to where the ball was


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Khawaja looking calm and competent again. Let him get a fifty as his mum's there.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Philip Hughes: still shit


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Hah! Was hoping for a bi of a curse effect but came at t'other end.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

JimW said:


> Khawaja looking calm and competent again. Let him get a fifty as his mum's there.


 
I really like the look of him. Seems to have bags of time to play in, proper batting. Contrast to most of their top order, Twatto included, one day slogger that he is


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Aye, and nice form too; well forward when he needs to be etc.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Clarke is over-reaching for wide ones again. That's how he'll get out again


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

C'mon then Tremlett, let's have another before they make 100


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

JimW said:


> Aye, and nice form too; well forward when he needs to be etc.


 
4 not out off 36 balls. Bit slow but it only goes to support the contention that he's the only proper Test batsman in their top four


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Yep, was just thinking he's he only one appears t realise they need to be out there a long, long time to avoid defeat. Clarke flashing away will go sooner rather than later


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

The complete inability of the Australians to bat time in this series has been striking. I think the last decade and more of scoring at 4+ runs an over (when they had the players to pursue that all out aggression tactic) have robbed them of the ability to play any other way


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Jimmy!

Crap shot after playing so well. Shame for him


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> Clarke is over-reaching for wide ones again. That's how he'll get out again


 
not quite right but I was in the general area


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Had to pop out so have missed those two. So much for Khajawa sticking around.


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 6, 2011)

Cook is quite an ardent ball polisher


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Superb! Beginning of the end, surely.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

JimW said:


> Had to pop out so have missed those two. So much for Khajawa sticking around.


 
He's got what it takes, give him time

Australia are getting out in batting order here. Could change now Smith's in


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Heh. What was Smith doing there?


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Let's have the extra time and finish it tonight then!


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> Australia are getting out in batting order here. Could change now Smith's in


 
Maybe not then


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

And still following the order like you say


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Wahey! So deserved!


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Hat-trick please


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Next!


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 6, 2011)

Will they take the extra half hour to be honest anything could happen


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Sounds like the are taking it from my commentary


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Smith hanging in there for his 5 has stuffed up embree's order, mind.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

JimW said:


> Smith hanging in there for his 5 has stuffed up embree's order, mind.


 
I know, I'm gutted tbh


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 6, 2011)

I reckon it,s down to cook's ball shining.David lloyd just mentioned it on sky that he's the ball shiner


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Said same on my stream - 'designated ball shiner'. Look good on any CV


----------



## strung out (Jan 6, 2011)

apparently they did tests to see which player had the least sweaty hands, so they could designate them as the ball shiner and keep the ball in the best possible condition


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Nearly!


----------



## JimW (Jan 6, 2011)

Edges a-plenty


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Great day. If anyone has a day off work then following Saf v India would be a good shout - India chasing 340 to win, Saf need 10 wickets. Starts at 8am


----------



## strung out (Jan 6, 2011)

might be on that actually


----------



## strung out (Jan 6, 2011)

that morning session had to be one of the most demoralising sights ever for an aussie. putting on 150 for the final three wickets was simply delicious.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:
			
		

> Prior vs. Haddin?



Prior.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Apparently helpful things that never actually work in cricket:

1) Enforcing a follow-on
2) Second-inning declarations
3) Asking for an extra half-hour

And personally, I'd add night watchmen to the list n'all.


----------



## tarannau (Jan 6, 2011)

Ah well, it looked like it'd be over a day early for a little while, but then the wickets dried up in the final, additional half hour. For some reason I woke up even earlier than usual, found myself sneaking out to listen to TMS on the sofa and it seemed like my sleepless destiny to hear the end of the ashes. It was not to be.


Still it's hardly a bad thing expecting Aus to crash to another innings defeat early. And it gives us an extra day of gloating headlines and Aussies bemoaning their fall from competency.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 6, 2011)

Nice one England, made my last night in Melbourne all the sweeter, just raised a cold one to Collingwood as well.

Good work boys.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> Great day. If anyone has a day off work then following Saf v India would be a good shout - India chasing 340 to win, Saf need 10 wickets. Starts at 8am


 
I'm watching this at the moment.  The pitch is very much a last day pitch and Steyn and Morkal are steaming in with the new ball, India chasing down 342 looks unlikely to say the least.


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

strung out said:


> apparently they did tests to see which player had the least sweaty hands, so they could designate them as the ball shiner and keep the ball in the best possible condition


 
This must be true, because there was some stuff about Cook not sweating even after batting all day in the Brisbane sun. Trott was gulping down bottles of istonic drink and Cook just sipped at an eggcup of water once every two hours.


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

Santino said:


> Prediction: 3-1 to England.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 6, 2011)

I was going to trawl through the thread on a smug-hunt for my predictions, but smugly rose above.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I'm watching this at the moment.  The pitch is very much a last day pitch and Steyn and Morkal are steaming in with the new ball, India chasing down 342 looks unlikely to say the least.


 
This final day of the SA v India series is turning out to be a real damp squib.  India have played for the draw from the start of the day and SA can't get a wicket.  Harris is complete shit, Singh got 7 wickets on this pitch yesterday, Harris can't move it off straight.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Bollocks. Bell took an _age_ to refer it. He knew he'd hit it, he knew it was a very faint nick, he hoped he'd be able to fool them. Shit way to go about things, every bit as shit as claiming a catch when you know it's bounced in my book.


I'd say it's more he wasn 't absolutely sure either way, thought about it long and hard, fin ally deciding to submit it to the higher authority of technology. which, after all, is exactly what the new set-up is designed for.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 6, 2011)

Santino said:


> This must be true, because there was some stuff about Cook not sweating even after batting all day in the Brisbane sun. Trott was gulping down bottles of istonic drink and Cook just sipped at an eggcup of water once every two hours.


oh bloody hell, the bugger scores squillions of runs every innings and he doesn't even have the grace to _sweat!_


----------



## Ted Striker (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> This final day of the SA v India series is turning out to be a real damp squib.  India have played for the draw from the start of the day and SA can't get a wicket.  Harris is complete shit, Singh got 7 wickets on this pitch yesterday, Harris can't move it off straight.



Tbf Indias chances would be slim on a decent wicket and shit bowling attack, no wonder they parked the bus. Shame though, yesterday was a great day to watch.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> results for each ground:
> 
> Brisbane E
> Perth A
> ...


 
Got Brisbane and Adelaide the wrong way round.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 6, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> 3-1 england



may i allow myself a couple of moments of smugness?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

We can all be smug, we are hammering the aussies after all.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

Yes, I said, *hammering*.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

I got the result right, but I didn't predict the hammering. Three innings victories. Wow.


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## Streathamite (Jan 6, 2011)

God, this feels _glorious_


----------



## Idaho (Jan 6, 2011)

I didn't predict the last two games being so one sided. I thought the series was going to be close with us nicking it, but 3 innings victories? (touchwood)


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> This final day of the SA v India series is turning out to be a real damp squib.  India have played for the draw from the start of the day and SA can't get a wicket.  Harris is complete shit, Singh got 7 wickets on this pitch yesterday, Harris can't move it off straight.


 
Gambhir's gone. There's still time for SA. But yes, Harris's limitations are exposed on a day like today. The lack of a good spinner is their only flaw.


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I got the result right, but I didn't predict the hammering. Three innings victories. Wow.


 
It's not three yet!


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

I was hoping to get a leeeetle bit of something other than back-slapping self-congratulation going with this post 


kabbes said:


> Apparently helpful things that never actually work in cricket:
> 
> 1) Enforcing a follow-on
> 2) Second-inning declarations
> ...


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> It's not three yet!


 
I'm jumping the gun, yes. But Aus won't score 150 tomorrow.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I was hoping to get a leeeetle bit of something other than back-slapping self-congratulation going with this post


 
Second-innings declarations often actually work. And I think I'm right in saying that only twice has a team enforced the follow-on and been beaten (Aus both times, against England 81, and India a few years ago in Laxman's test). 

Asking for an extra half hour with three wickets still to get was a little optimistic tbh, but why not?


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

It's not just about being beaten.  How often does a team enforce the follow-on and _win_?  Because if you're 200 ahead from the first innings then you really should win.  Too often I see a team come back out to bat with (a) steely determination; and (b) a fielding team knackered from already having spent a day in the field, with the result that the batting team go on to save the match.

The extra half-hour also just seems too often to result in batsman racking up another 30 runs without loss.  Just go and get a good night's sleep and then get back out there in the morning and skittle them over.  If you think you can do it in 30 mins then you can definitely do it in 6 hours.

Obviously if it is day 5, that doesn't apply.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Well the follow-on isn't enforced nearly as often now as it used to be. Australia are a bit scarred (lol), and other teams often don't enforce it for precisely the reason you give. Depends on lots of factors – time left in the match, the actual lead (just over 200 or well over 200), how tired the bowlers are, etc. 

In days gone by, when Sunday was a rest day, bowler fatigue was less of an issue and the follow-on was nearly always enforced.


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

As it happens, I can't recall any worthwhile second-inning declarations either.  I think teams that do it are underestimating the psychological impact of setting a really ENORMOUS score for the opposition to chase.

If you're got 700 then fair enough.  But declaring on 550 or 600 just isn't worth it.


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Oh, and night watchmen are shit.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> As it happens, I can't recall any worthwhile second-inning declarations either.  I think teams that do it are underestimating the psychological impact of setting a really ENORMOUS score for the opposition to chase.
> 
> If you're got 700 then fair enough.  But declaring on 550 or 600 just isn't worth it.



Lots. Often you have to declare if you want to win.


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## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

I reckon Flintoff lost a year of playing by enforcing the follow-on against Sri Lanka in 2006 and then over-bowling himself.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

I have a mate who is a physio and works at Lord's. He watched on with dismay as Flintoff was trained into the ground day after day at Lord's gym before the last Ashes series. It is his professional opinion that Flintoff's coaches basically crippled him for life by pushing him too hard.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Lots. Often you have to declare if you want to win.


 Not the first time you bat though.  At that point, what are you -- three days in?  If both teams have racked up decent scores and you are 4 days in then I can see the point of a vain attempt at getting the opposition out quickly on the last day.  But I keep hearing people call for declarations in the second innings after 2.5 days!


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Ah, by second innings, you mean first innings. Ok, I see now. Yes, in that case, I agree, and I remember vividly thinking that Flintoff was making a big mistake declaring at Adelaide in 2006 (although this was the first first innings). This isn't with the benefit of hindsight – I genuinely had a feeling of foreboding at the time.

The only time I think it is fine to declare, assuming that time isn't yet an issue, is if there are two tailenders in and they can't score. No point wasting time in that situation.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Sorry for the terminology -- I agree it is confusing.  But I've seen it officially referred to a second innings declaration as opposed to a third innings declaration.  There is indeed also such a rare beast as a first innings declaration, as per Flintoff -- something _really_ dumb IMO.

So hurrah -- we are in agreement about item 1.  Now to persuade you and all others that night watchmen should be consigned to the dustbin of history...


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Sorry for the terminology -- I agree it is confusing.  But I've seen it officially referred to a second innings declaration as opposed to a third innings declaration.  There is indeed also such a rare beast as a first innings declaration, as per Flintoff -- something _really_ dumb IMO.



Sometimes you need to declare in the first innings to avoid needing to enforce the follow-on to bowl them out twice. No point in being 900-3 on a flat track with only two days left to take 20 wickets.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

There is a rationale behind n/wmen. All batsmen are at their most vulnerable when they first come in (possibly Shane Watson excepted!). Being not out at the beginning of the day is basically coming in new. So if you have 3 or 4 overs to bat in the evening, you don't have time to get yourself in, but you are exposed to the most vulnerable time of your innings, only to have to do the same thing the next morning. In such circumstances, it is better to send in a lower-order blocker for those 3-4 overs.


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Santino said:


> Sometimes you need to declare in the first innings to avoid needing to enforce the follow-on to bowl them out twice. No point in being 900-3 on a flat track with only two days left to take 20 wickets.


 
Hmm.  Interesting.

Fuck off.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> There is a rationale behind n/wmen. All batsmen are at their most vulnerable when they first come in (possibly Shane Watson excepted!). Being not out at the beginning of the day is basically coming in new. So if you have 3 or 4 overs to bat in the evening, you don't have time to get yourself in, but you are exposed to the most vulnerable time of your innings, only to have to do the same thing the next morning. In such circumstances, it is better to send in a lower-order blocker for those 3-4 overs.


 
I know the theory.  I just think it stinks.

The problem is the way it upsets the order of the batsmen.  For a start, it means that your #6 and #7 batsmen suddenly even have less of a tail to bat with.  And it means that when you should be attacking with your #3 and #4 (for example), you might be stuck with a #10 blocker at one end.

I'm much more ambivalent about it than I am about second inning declarations and follow-ons but something in my gut says that it isn't the good idea it first appears.


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Hmm.  Interesting.
> 
> Fuck off.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I know the theory.  I just think it stinks.
> 
> The problem is the way it upsets the order of the batsmen.  For a start, it means that your #6 and #7 batsmen suddenly even have less of a tail to bat with.  And it means that when you should be attacking with your #3 and #4 (for example), you might be stuck with a #10 blocker at one end.
> 
> I'm much more ambivalent about it than I am about second inning declarations and follow-ons but something in my gut says that it isn't the good idea it first appears.


 
As an opener I agree that the night watchman idea is bizarre.  Openers never get the choice they just have to go out and face the quicks with the new ball regardless of the time of day.

Why would a number 11 have a better defensive technique than a top 5 batsman?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> The problem is the way it upsets the order of the batsmen.  For a start, it means that your #6 and #7 batsmen suddenly even have less of a tail to bat with.  And it means that when you should be attacking with your #3 and #4 (for example), you might be stuck with a #10 blocker at one end.



This is why the n/wman has to start playing strokes the next day, as Anderson did yesterday. Nothing more annoying to the opposition than a quick 40 from him that morning, but if he gets out quickly, it's not big deal. 

On balance, I think the nightwatchman is a sensible idea, so long as he actually tries to take the strike on the evening in question (Jimmy in Perth, what were you doing?).


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Why would a number 11 have a better defensive technique than a top 5 batsman?


 
They don't, but that isn't the rationale, as I explained a few posts ago.


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> This is why the n/wman has to start playing strokes the next day, as Anderson did yesterday. Nothing more annoying to the opposition than a quick 40 from him that morning, but if he gets out quickly, it's not big deal.
> 
> On balance, I think the nightwatchman is a sensible idea, so long as he actually tries to take the strike on the evening in question (Jimmy in Perth, what were you doing?).


Essentially, that means you are throwing away one of your tail enders.  Because he has to play like a proper batsman, otherwise he is holding up the scoring.  But he can't play like a proper batsman, so he ends up getting out for 7 at a time you don't need him.  Whereas he COULD have been partnering the #6 or #7 at the end of the order instead.

And Teaboy IS right about the defensive technique.  You are relying on the night watchman being able to survive until the end of the evening, otherwise he is pointless.  But why rely on a #10 or #11 for a job that should be meat and drink for a #4 or #5?


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Because said 4 or 5 then only has to start an innings once rather than twice, _as I explained above_.

That's the whole point – that until he's got his feet moving properly, such a job isn't meat and drink. Most batsmen get out for under 10 much more often than they get out for, say, between 10 and 30. There's a reason for that.


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Because said 4 or 5 then only has to start an innings once rather than twice, _as I explained above_.


 
So what?  They have to restart their innings EVERY session.  In many ways, they have to do it twice per session, with tea breaks holding things up too.  If they're good enough to score a century then they shouldn't need to be mollycoddled.


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## Streathamite (Jan 6, 2011)

I wonder if any London-based posters fancy going for a drink in a bar known to be frequented by our colonial convict-descended cousins tomorrow evening, just to wallow in their misery?


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## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> They don't, but that isn't the rationale, as I explained a few posts ago.


 
I know, but its a bit suss.  As I said as someone whos always opened I find the whole thing a bit cowardly.  You're a batsman its your job to go out and bat not send a bowler out because you don't like the time of day.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

That's a fair point of view too. I don't have strong opinion either way. I know Steve Waugh never believed in nightwatchmen for the reason you give.


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Steve Waugh was awesome.


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## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

Changing the subject back to the ashes, what the fuck is wrong with Watson?  I've just seen that run out on the highlights and its just bizarre.  It's Hughes' call and you clearly hear him say 'no', but Watson head down just carries on trotting to the other end and then looks surprised when Hughes is stood next to him.

Is Watson deaf or just completly stupid?  Do the shackles make it difficult for an aussie to turn around once they start running?


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## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Steve Waugh was awesome.


 
True, but I'm not sure he could have captained this aussie team to a series win.  He'd averaged more than 15, mind.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Speaking as someone who was run out more than once in his short and inauspicious cricket career, I can empathise completely with him. You can guarantee that he doesn't know why he does it either.


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Do the shackles make it difficult for an aussie to turn around once they start running?


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 6, 2011)

I see the SCG has pretty similar looking floodlights to our beloved Olympic Stadium - utter shite looking, Gary Glitter stage accessories.


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## Idaho (Jan 6, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> I wonder if any London-based posters fancy going for a drink in a bar known to be frequented by our colonial convict-descended cousins tomorrow evening, just to wallow in their misery?


 
Ooh.. good idea. There is a walkabout here. I wouldn't normally touch the place with a bargepole, but it might be worth a chuckle.


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## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

Are there actually any crims in walkabout?  Perhaps the antipodeans don't visit Bristol.


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## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> So what?  They have to restart their innings EVERY session.  In many ways, they have to do it twice per session, with tea breaks holding things up too.  If they're good enough to score a century then they shouldn't need to be mollycoddled.



I'm not sure it's being mollycoddled, it's a tactical decision.  There's a world of difference between restarting after 40mins max break and overnight - the weather and pitch condition won't have changed much, for a start - so any method of avoiding restarting is worth some consideration.  It's really nothing to do with pandering to batsman, it's deciding how the team wants to risk its available resources, and I find it a bit baffling that it's been expressed in that manner.

I'm ambivalent on nightwatchmen, I get the idea but can see the demerits of using them.  As has been highlighted by you and others, the fact that the nightwatchman is generally the best defensive batsman means you'd use up a potentially useful wicket to the marginal benefit of slightly protecting a higher-order batsman.  I'd be inclined to only use them when there's so few overs left that a golden duck for the nightwatchmen would be stumps, and send in the no 11.   Eta:  And tell them to lash at everything if they're so inclined.


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## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes, it is your job - no, your DUTY, to cricket, to posterity and to science - to do a statistical analysis on the use of nightwatchpersons to determine whether the tactic is a sound one. We will need to agree various definitions before analysis is undertaken. I suggest a new thread.


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Data is always the magic ingredient.  Do you have it?


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## Balbi (Jan 6, 2011)

If I were bunny johnson, i'd retire from games against England. He got done by Tremlett's tremendous ball, but his head must be getting wrecked by the barracking he's getting 



K.P approves


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## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Data is always the magic ingredient.  Do you have it?



Oh God, no.

(not an assault on your good self, but I'm not sure I want to resurrect memories of my maths modules)


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## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Data is always the magic ingredient.  Do you have it?


 
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/index.html


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Santino said:


> http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/series/index.html


 
It's going to need a lot more prep than that!

I don't mind doing the analysis, but I'm not going through every match to work out whether a night watchman was used and under what circumstances before dumping it into a database line by line!


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## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

What precisely would you be looking for?  In terms of result/correlation.


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## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

What does success look like?


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## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

Proving Steve Smith is not a batsman.


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## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

mattie said:


> What precisely would you be looking for?  In terms of result/correlation.


 


Santino said:


> What does success look like?


 
We could investigate under a range of success criteria.  Probably try to identify the impact on the overall expected score for the innings by using a night watchman when a batsman is lost near the end of the day.  

It's fruitless to pin down a precise set of criteria, however, if we know we don't have the dataset to work with.  We would need a large number of test matches that have involved losing a batsman near the end of the day, some of which have used a night watchman (whom we would need to identify) and some of which have not.  It would be a _lot_ of work -- hundreds of manhours, I suspect.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

As a crude, but possibly revealing, alternative, you could just do it by averages. Look at the scores of the nightwatchman and the man in next in that match and compare with their overall test average. Very crude but it might show something.

The biggest problem will the lack of suitable data without a nightwatchman, for certainly in recent decades, they have been much more used than not used.


----------



## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

So, just compare innings where nightwatchmen featured against those where one didn't?

I can't recall what you fancy stats lads call it, but wouldn't that be self-fulfilling/recursive to some extent, namely the choice of whether to use a nightwatchman is to some extent dependent upon whether the pitch/bowlers are docile (i.e. that the choice depends upon the likely score itself?)

feckin' nightmare, stats.  Bane of my life.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Bayesian probability. 

The chances of things happening change every time that thing happens/doesn't happen, and you have to build that into your analysis. 

*Actually that isn't what you're talking about.


----------



## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

If we don't stick to frequentist my head will pop.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Data is always the magic ingredient.  Do you have it?


I think I need help, because I am on the verge of finding your data-crunching almost _fascinating_. EEK!


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

Rough outline of criteria:

A top-order wicket (1-4) falls in the final hour (half-hour?) of play and either 

a) a batsman is promoted up the order where the promoted batsman averages under 20 and bats at 8 or lower; or 

b) no such promotion.

A very crude succes criteria would be whether (a) or (b) produces a higher average team total. Or that the protected batsman does not himself get out cheaply (either for less than 10 or for less than half his average).


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

mattie said:


> So, just compare innings where nightwatchmen featured against those where one didn't?
> 
> I can't recall what you fancy stats lads call it, but wouldn't that be self-fulfilling/recursive to some extent, namely the choice of whether to use a nightwatchman is to some extent dependent upon whether the pitch/bowlers are docile (i.e. that the choice depends upon the likely score itself?)
> 
> feckin' nightmare, stats.  Bane of my life.


 Yes, but you can take care of this kind of thing using Generalised Linear Modelling.  You identify the various factors that will impact the outcome (and, cruicially, their interactions) and run an analysis on the whole lot simultaneously.  The idea is to be able to pick out the impact of individual factors.

It's no harder in principle than working out how age, sex, postcode and so on all impact your chance of having a motor accident.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

On balance, I'd say use the nightwatchman. The potential disadvantages are minor compared to the potential gains. 

It's all very well telling batsmen to 'man up' and get out there, but if they don't man up and get out, you might be losing a match on the basis of sticking pigheadedly to an unworkable principle.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Santino said:


> A very crude succes criteria would be whether (a) or (b) produces a higher average team total. Or that the protected batsman does not himself get out cheaply (either for less than 10 or for less than half his average).


 
Using GLM we can do better than that.  We look at the impact on the overall score from including/excluding the factor and see if this impact falls within the error margin of the analysis or not.

Of course, I no longer have access to the necessary GLM tool.  But we actually did this kind of thing on footballer injuries for Charlton Athletic (for free as a publicity stunt) whilst I was at my last job.


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## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

So, we're clear on what we're doing?  Away you go kabbes.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Right, I'm done.

The answer was that night watchmen are shit.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

And here is a stat that proves it:

4.9 +/- 2.1


----------



## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

Reiterate.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

7.5 * e^-4 * (score^2 -ave(nwm)^2) > π^2 

therefore

NWM FTW


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Nuh-huh.


----------



## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

I think you didn't carry the 1.

Did Flintoff ever send out a nightwatchman?  He'd be one to confound logic, which might throw a spanner in the works.


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

Is it worth mentioning that, even if a solid statistical analysis proves that sending out a nightwatchman tends to reduce the overall score of the side, there will be occasions on which it is the correct decision? I think when 2 or 3 wickets have gone quickly sending out a nightwatchman can be a useful way of defusing the anxiety in the rest of the batting order.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Santino said:


> Is it worth mentioning that, even if a solid statistical analysis proves that sending out a nightwatchman tends to reduce the overall score of the side, there will be occasions on which it is the correct decision? I think when 2 or 3 wickets have gone quickly sending out a nightwatchman can be a useful way of defusing the anxiety in the rest of the batting order.


 
Australia are entirely made up of night watchmen and Hussey.


----------



## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

Santino said:


> Is it worth mentioning that, even if a solid statistical analysis proves that sending out a nightwatchman tends to reduce the overall score of the side, there will be occasions on which it is the correct decision? I think when 2 or 3 wickets have gone quickly sending out a nightwatchman can be a useful way of defusing the anxiety in the rest of the batting order.


 
I'm not sure how we express that as a function.

To be honest, any correlation is likely to be pretty weak as there are so many impenetrables that can't be quantified or add a huge amount of complexity.  Even the character of the captains would influence it (some would send out a night-watchman regardless of match state, some would never).


----------



## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Australia are entirely made up of night watchmen and Hussey.





Night-watchmen are supposed to be able to defend.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

mattie said:


> Proving Steve Smith is not a batsman.


 
But if he's not a batsman, then what is he?

Oh, hold on.........


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

This series has been a microcosm of Hussey's career. Started off as a world-beater and ended with a series of failures. 

I actually think Aus should get rid of Hussey and Ponting now. They should also have the courage to get rid of Johnson for good. It's time for them to move on.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

Santino said:


> Is it worth mentioning that, even if a solid statistical analysis proves that sending out a nightwatchman tends to reduce the overall score of the side, there will be occasions on which it is the correct decision? I think when 2 or 3 wickets have gone quickly sending out a nightwatchman can be a useful way of defusing the anxiety in the rest of the batting order.


 
Would this not be offset by the amount of times a night watchman has got out the same evening and the scared batsman has had to come out and bat anyway, except this time the bowler is on a hat trick or something.

I seem to remember this sort of thing used to happen a lot under Atherton.


----------



## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> But if he's not a batsman, then what is he?
> 
> Oh, hold on.........


 
My understanding was that the shackle-draggers recognised he was Not Marcus North.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Would this not be offset by the amount of times a night watchman has got out the same evening and the scared batsman has had to come out and bat anyway, except this time the bowler is on a hat trick or something.
> 
> I seem to remember this sort of thing used to happen a lot under Atherton.



TBF, the middle order under Atherton – Ramprakash, Hick, Crawley, et al – was barely worth even trying to protect.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

mattie said:


> My understanding was that the shackle-draggers recognised he was Not Marcus North.


 
I think there are quite a few aussies who were not marcus north, in fact from time to time marcus north appeared to be someone else.  There was one north who scored centuries against top quality bowling and the other one who couldnt get into double figures for love nor money.  Maybe theres two of them just like there are two Mitchells.


----------



## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I think there are quite a few aussies who were not marcus north, in fact from time to time marcus north appeared to be someone else.  There was one north who scored centuries against top quality bowling and the other one who couldnt get into double figures for love nor money.  Maybe theres two of them just like there are two Mitchells.


 
Weren't they even considering one of these Marcus Norths for the captaincy?  Shame the other one turned up.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

A tough question:

Which was more disappointing, Australia's batting performance or their bowling performance?


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

Define "disappointing"


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

From the point of view of an Aus supporter, I should have added.


----------



## mattie (Jan 6, 2011)

In this context, 'hilarious'.


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

On the one hand, there is nothing like the exquisite agony of a batting collapse. But a poor bowling performance wears you down over a couple of days.

Would you rather have a kidney removed without anaesthetic or be repeatedly punched and kicked every morning for a month?


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> A tough question:
> 
> Which was more disappointing, Australia's batting performance or their bowling performance?


 
That is tough because there bowling has been woeful and they've spent hours and hours in the field, but I think England batted very well.

However the batting has been dismal, and by the end of the series Tremlett and Bresnan are running through them, decent bowlers but not exactly Steyn and Morkal.  So I'd say the batting, and the lowest of the low has to be Clark and Ponting, they've both been trully awful.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

'They made Tim Bresnan look unplayable' might be the clincher.

Then again, the assortment of spinners on display over the series surely equals that achievement. I wonder what the series figures for Aus spinners were.


----------



## g force (Jan 6, 2011)

Batting - with the claibre/ track record you'd never expect them to give away such cheap wickets at home. On the bowling Johnson's the only real threat and he's always been erratic at best.


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

They bowled England out relatively cheaply three times. And let them get 500+ four times.

The batting was ok at Brisbane, average at Perth, and abysmal everywhere else. (Taken on overall score.)


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Then again, the assortment of spinners on display over the series surely equals that achievement. I wonder what the series figures for Aus spinners were.


 
Oh yeah good point, none of the spinners they tried (Doherty, Beer or Smith) are even fit to play the same game as Shane Warne.  

Watching Paul Harris today totally fail to do anything of use on a 5th day pitch that was turning sideways and offered variable bounce (the same pitch Harbhajan had taken 7 wickets on the day before)has reinforced my belief that you cannot be a world beating side without a world beating spinner.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Ah, better than I thought. 

aus spinners' series figures: 

5 for 679


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

So an average of 136?  Hmmm, frugal.

Are you including North in those figures?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Yes, but one wicket per match. That's more than I would have guessed, tbh, but I'd forgotten Doherty's 2 for 41 in the first innings at Brisbane.

That it all started so well for them, too... 

Such a shame.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> So an average of 136?  Hmmm, frugal.
> 
> Are you including North in those figures?


 
Yes. All spinners. Only fair, I think, given that North was probably the pick of the bunch.

England's spinners so far:

15 for 601


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 6, 2011)

Batting, simply because England's batsmen played supremely well, whereas our bowlers were simply pretty good. Four run-outs in a test series is simply farcical


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Oh yeah good point, none of the spinners they tried (Doherty, Beer or Smith) are even fit to play the same game as Shane Warne.
> 
> Watching Paul Harris today totally fail to do anything of use on a 5th day pitch that was turning sideways and offered variable bounce (the same pitch Harbhajan had taken 7 wickets on the day before)has reinforced my belief that you cannot be a world beating side without a world beating spinner.


 
You can. West Indies were for years. But you're right that the ordinariness of Harris is SA's weak spot.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Changing the subject back to the ashes, what the fuck is wrong with Watson?  I've just seen that run out on the highlights and its just bizarre.  It's Hughes' call and you clearly hear him say 'no', but Watson head down just carries on trotting to the other end and then looks surprised when Hughes is stood next to him.
> 
> Is Watson deaf or just completly stupid?  Do the shackles make it difficult for an aussie to turn around once they start running?


 
Not only that but the failure to run the first one hard meant the second was never on. There were two runs there if they'd gone hard at it. The look on Prior's face as the ball came in and Watson sauntered out of his crease was priceless. He couldn't believe the gift he was about to be handed


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You can. West Indies were for years. But you're right that the ordinariness of Harris is SA's weak spot.


 
Times have moved on.  The batsman have better protection and the pitches are covered and a lot flatter.  Also Hawkeye means spinners get a lot more lbw's these days.

On the SA point, I think they have quite a few weak spots which the class of a few have been covering up for.  In particular Kallis is so important to them that when he retires they are going to be in trouble.  It showed today not having a 4th seamer completly unbalanced their attack, worlds best all rounder for me.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

mattie said:


> Proving Steve Smith is not a batsman.


 
Seen all the proof I need of that


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Santino said:


> They bowled England out relatively cheaply three times. And let them get 500+ four times.
> 
> The batting was ok at Brisbane, average at Perth, and abysmal everywhere else. (Taken on overall score.)


 
No, the bating was dismal at Brisbane with the exception of Hussey and Haddin


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Times have moved on.  The batsman have better protection and the pitches are covered and a lot flatter.  Also Hawkeye means spinners get a lot more lbw's these days.


 
You are right about Hawkeye. Phil Tufnell makes the point quite often that he'd have got a lot more test wickets with it. Hit on the front foot with a decent stride in used to equal guaranteed not out, but no more. 

But pitches were covered in the 80s too, and Dale Steyn shows what a top fast bowler can still do. I don't think the overall quality of fast bowling today is as high as that WI team. Of current players, I would suggest that only Steyn would get anywhere near to a place in the great WI teams of the past.

This is a great shame, I think, as top quicks and top spinners are what make test cricket special. It also makes Mohammad Amir's fall from grace so more painful. World cricket needs exciting young fast bowling talent like that.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> No, the bating was dismal at Brisbane with the exception of Hussey and Haddin


 
But with Hussey and Haddin included, it was ok. 600 runs for 11 wickets is good.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2011)

Sure there is a real lack of quality out and out fast bowlers at the moment, but given the quality of pitch being served up in the likes of the windies and Sri Lanka its no wonder.  Would you bother on those sorts of pitches?

Its perhaps no surprise that the country which is consistantly producing the fastest pitches has the two fastest bowlers.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Pakistan has pudding pitches too. But even on puddings, a 90 mph in-(reverse)swinging yorker is mighty effective. The likes of Waqar and Wasim grew up on slow pitches. Great bowlers can take wickets in all conditions.

That said, you are right that such pitches don't help. I hate slow, flat pitches. 600-4 versus 550-5, match drawn, is the kind of thing that drives people away from test matches, and rightly so. It is tedious in the extreme.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> But with Hussey and Haddin included, it was ok. 600 runs for 11 wickets is good.


 
the signs were there though


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2011)

The signs were there.  But you can't just say, "taking out those who did well, the team did poorly".  That's something of a tautology.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Indeed, and that really is with the benefit of hindsight. I didn't expect Ponting and Clarke to flop as they did. Hell, I even expected something from North. First innings at Adelaide was the first time I thought 'hang on..'.

The sign from Brisbane's second innings was actually that Ponting was in good touch...


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

kabbes said:


> The signs were there.  But you can't just say, "taking out those who did well, the team did poorly".  That's something of a tautology.


 
Collapses before and after that one partnership. It was a fairly obvious bright side at the time. Not hindsight.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> Collapses before and after that one partnership. It was a fairly obvious bright side at the time. Not hindsight.


 
And then safely seeing out the last three hours of the match in the second innings. 

Did you post as much on here? Cos I wasn't thinking like that at the time. Rather the opposite, in fact: the batsman under most pressure found form, which was quite worrying really.


----------



## strung out (Jan 6, 2011)

> 10 reasons Poms WON'T win
> 
> 
> *1 Overrated*
> ...



http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sp...hy-poms-wont-win/story-e6frey50-1225955985591

brilliant


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 6, 2011)

top work strung out you sadistic aussie-torturer!


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

> Australia have eight Test-standard speedsters in the queue.



lol


----------



## DrRingDing (Jan 6, 2011)

Love it.


----------



## Balbi (Jan 6, 2011)

That article is just beautiful


----------



## strung out (Jan 6, 2011)

i like that at least five of those points can be applied to the australian team


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> And then safely seeing out the last three hours of the match in the second innings.
> 
> Did you post as much on here? Cos I wasn't thinking like that at the time. Rather the opposite, in fact: the batsman under most pressure found form, which was quite worrying really.


 
no idea what I posted tbh nut I know what I was thinking at the time


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

oh are you kidding? fucking rain in the morning, my beers will be done by when play starts, fucking bollocks.


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 6, 2011)




----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

Phew, covers are off.


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

Brace yourselves for history everyone. Play starts at 23.03 GMT.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

free tickets today to!


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

Thoughtful analysis by Simon Hughes in the Telegraph. Basically England have won due to being better at batting and bowling than Australia.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

Well, got to love honesty.


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

So who's pre-ordering the DVD set?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

I may buy it one day, got the 2005 one from a pound shop lol.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jan 6, 2011)

Oh Jimmy Jimmy!


----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2011)

It's on now, people not on this thread!


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

Santino said:


> Thoughtful analysis by Simon Hughes in the Telegraph. Basically England have won due to being better at batting and bowling than Australia.



and fielding 

just watching highlights.

LOVED that runout


----------



## pennimania (Jan 6, 2011)

Just realised it's started


----------



## strung out (Jan 6, 2011)

over nice and quickly please. got a busy day tomorrow.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Happy series win day everyone


----------



## DrRingDing (Jan 6, 2011)

Tis a shame Michael Vaughan finds his own crap jokes so funny.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 6, 2011)

quality. here we go... come on jimmy, let's av it!

jimmy's one of my favourite players, i'm glad he's shown he can do the business in oz after all the doubt over his ability with the kookaburra. makes warne's claim that swanny would have to take 25 for eng to take the ashes look bit stupid. how many things has warne done recently that make him look a dick? quick top 3s, anyone?

1 twitter twattery
2 his tv show (r.i.p)
3 maccy d ads.

fuck, i need to do a top ten!


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Get on TestMatchSofa.com, Mark Steel's on


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> Happy series win day everyone


 
This should be a future bank holiday.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

oooh so close.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> jimmy's one of my favourite players, i'm glad he's shown he can do the business in oz after all the doubt over his ability with the kookaburra.



Yep, I've always liked him. He has always had the priceless ability to swing the ball both ways, but it seems it just took him a few years to learn to control it. It used to be a case of 'on his day, he's brilliant', but nowadays every day is his day. 

I must say I am also mightily impressed by Tremlett. He is definitely England's number 2 bowler now and he and Jimmy can open together for a while now, I hope. He even found a yorker for the hat-trick ball yesterday, He should bowl more of those, maybe watch a few tapes of Joel Garner, who is the bowler he most reminds me of.


----------



## strung out (Jan 6, 2011)

been put on antibiotics today, so no celebratory booze when (if) we win


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

oh ffs here we go, rain. oh well still gonna win 2-1. lol.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

Rain.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 6, 2011)

i hope the aussies have a massive inquiry into why they've had such a succession of jokers coming in and out of the team. their selection policy is fucked, their attitude is fucked, their supporters have deserted them, their press have savaged them... don't get me wrong, i'm gloating as much as the next englishman, but the aussies need to take a long, hard look at the situation. HA HA HA HA!!! fuckers.


----------



## El Sueno (Jan 6, 2011)

Santino said:


> So who's pre-ordering the DVD set?


 
No choice otherwise I might end up thinking it was all a dream...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 6, 2011)

At risk of drowning in cliches, they need to look for players who will give their all all the time. When you're really crap, that's the first stage of recovery, a bit like England under Hussain – at least make yourself difficult to beat. 

That means bye-bye Hughes until you tighten up your technique, and bye-bye Mitch for good.

it was hard jettisioning Harmison. There were so many fond memories. But it had to be done in the end, and as many have said, Johnson is Aus's Harmison.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

They need to lose this fixation on hyper aggressive Aussie attitude and focus on actual skills. Get the basics straight.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

Been listening to Warne then I see, embree.


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Been listening to Warne then I see, embree.


 
I make a point of never listening to Warne, or even looking at him if I can help it


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 6, 2011)

Well, keep up your protest!


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Covers coming off


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> Covers coming off


 
praps not


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

embree said:


> praps not


 
ooh, they are now


----------



## embree (Jan 6, 2011)

Hot news: Jimmy will be rested until the fourth ODI so he gets to go home and see his daughter


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

Just sacrificed some money for 6 more beers, couldnt help it.


----------



## strung out (Jan 7, 2011)

i'll be popping open a bottle of strawberry milk later i think


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

its gonna be an all nighter isn't it?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

got the fucking fucker!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## killer b (Jan 7, 2011)

whoot!


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> its gonna be an all nighter isn't it?


 
nope. Over very soon


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

o rly


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

ya rly


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

that fat guy in the crowd is fucking classic.


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

He's singing The Lion Sleeps Tonight. Does it on every tour  He's great


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

new ball, let's get it finished!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 7, 2011)

Yeeeeeees


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

oh, speaking of which...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

I sensed a wicket was coming.


----------



## toblerone3 (Jan 7, 2011)

England might win this.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

/smugness


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

Michael Beer 'a good number 12'


----------



## shagnasty (Jan 7, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Just sacrificed some money for 6 more beers, couldnt help it.


 
Got 2 litre of cider so if as it seems england finish them early ,will have to put  a film on to finish it


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

I think we're going to win


----------



## toblerone3 (Jan 7, 2011)

My beers are only up to five.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

Matt Prior's actually become a very fine keeper. That's sort of crept up on me.


----------



## strung out (Jan 7, 2011)

shipping forecast coming up, just in time for the end of the series


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> shipping forecast coming up, just in time for the end of the series


 
LOL


----------



## El Sueno (Jan 7, 2011)

It's balanced on a knife-edge isn't it?


----------



## toblerone3 (Jan 7, 2011)

Dogger


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

Don't forget the rain.


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

TESTMATCHSOFA.COM to avoid shipping forecast disappointment!


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

rain? as in australian tears, i assume


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

Oh dear, my sarcasm has backfired on me, big load of rain on the way.


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Piggy's 50. The shame of it


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

and loads of weeping and gnashing of australian teeth. HA!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 7, 2011)

Yeeeeeehaaaaa!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

fuckign GOT HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PARTY TIME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

I just screamed an empty room down


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

job done....


----------



## toblerone3 (Jan 7, 2011)

An innings and 83 runs !!!!


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Queen Elizabeth II, your boys took one hell of a beating!


----------



## El Sueno (Jan 7, 2011)

Well done chaps! A quick sprinkler and that's me done and off to bed.


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

Three innings victories. 

Three. Innings. Victories.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

It's nice that they all hug each other at the end. Some are more reluctant huggers than others. Trott doesn't like it much. Swann and Pietersen are the two big huggers.


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

embree said:


> TESTMATCHSOFA.COM to avoid shipping forecast disappointment!


 
I really hope someone out there paid attention to this


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

Sprinkler dance please even if its in the rain later!


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

Ok, who had Cook, Anderson and Tremlett as England's star players in a 3-1 win?


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It's nice that they all hug each other at the end. Some are more reluctant huggers than others. Trott doesn't like it much. Swann and Pietersen are the two big huggers.


 
i'd almost be tempted to bum jimmy on the wicket. almost.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> Ok, who had Cook, Anderson and Tremlett as England's star players in a 3-1 win?



i claim a 3-1 win prediction, as i nurse a semi


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> i'd almost be tempted to bum jimmy on the wicket. almost.


 
I'd let him bum me


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

embree said:


> I'd let him bum me



with that big fat pink stump? naaasty!!


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> with that big fat pink stump? naaasty!!



btw i mean the stump he grabbed, the wooden one, not any other big fat pink stump that jimmy may or may not be concealing


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

humorous moment - pink stump = stink pump


----------



## strung out (Jan 7, 2011)

gabi said:


> this has 5-0 written all over it.
> 
> love it when the poms head downunder all cocky


 


gabi said:


> well, i think that's probably a true statement but nope.. i read english press tho. which has spent the last few weeks claiming that the aussies are past it and england's gonna trounce em. lol.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

kiss my arse, gabi, you plonker.


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

someone find the bit where he laughed at me for predicting a 3-1 series win after Perth


----------



## strung out (Jan 7, 2011)

glenn mcgrath's 10 predictions before the series 



> *1 It will be another Australia whitewash
> *I'm still going with the 5-0. I can't really say anything else now, I guess I've dug a bit of a hole for myself, but I've got total faith in our boys. It should be a good series. The games should all be relatively close, with Australia just getting home in every Test.
> 
> *2 The youngsters will come good*
> ...



http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/blog/2010/nov/17/the-ashes-2010-glenn-mcgrath


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Dame Edna, Harold Bishop, Russell Crowe and Crocodile Dundee are all trending on Twitter


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

I stuck with my 3-1 even after Perth. I was still confident.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

Oh I do love it when the Aussies get all cocky.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

Glenn would have said 5-0 regardless. I admire that.

It isn't cockiness in his case. It's loyalty.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

Is in gabi's case though!


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Glenn would have said 5-0 regardless. I admire that.
> 
> It isn't cockiness in his case. It's loyalty.


 
I've always seen it as being more than a little tongue in cheek. Nice bit of pantomime before the series


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

Has Billy Bowden toned down his act or do the Aussie cameramen just ignore him?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

gabi's a kiwi. He's just trying to stir


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

A bit hard on Anderson not getting man of the series.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> A bit hard on Anderson not getting man of the series.


 
Can understand it though, sometimes wish they could do a joint man of the series, would be cool in this case.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 7, 2011)

strung out said:


> glenn mcgrath's 10 predictions before the series


 
Wow. Did he also predict that severe drought in Queensland?


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

Trending on Twitter: "Jimmy Jimmy Anderson"

So good they named him twice.


----------



## pennimania (Jan 7, 2011)

Very happy 

but wouldn't mind going through it all again.

It's going to be a bit boring for a while


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

pennimania said:


> Very happy
> 
> but wouldn't mind going through it all again.
> 
> It's going to be a bit boring for a while


 
No it isn't. World cup coming up, then  India i think is next, then sri lanka. gonna be an interesting year!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

we are the champions WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NO TIME FOR AUSSIES CAUSE WE ARE THE CHAMPIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## pennimania (Jan 7, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> No it isn't. World cup coming up, then  India i think is next, then sri lanka. gonna be an interesting year!


 
Ok 

when does the World Cup start?  (old girl needs kicking into touch)  tell me it's next week


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

pennimania said:


> Ok
> 
> when does the World Cup start?  (old girl needs kicking into touch)  tell me it's next week



i think its in feb but can't rememebr atm.


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

it starts next month and carries on for about three years


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

We've got a not at all pointless and overlong 7-match ODI series against Australia next.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> We've got a not at all pointless and overlong 7-match ODI series against Australia next.


 
Lets just enjoy more ass kicking.


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Lets just enjoy more ass kicking.


 
It would be nice to see some matches where both sides have a chance of winning at least until quite near the end.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

How awesome would it be to be in that crowd next to the team right now!


----------



## pennimania (Jan 7, 2011)

embree said:


> it starts next month and carries on for about three years


 
Goody 

( I think I've almost got my 16 year old daughter interested - that's got to be a good thing )


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

TrippyLondoner said:


> How awesome would it be to be in that crowd next to the team right now!


 
my oldest friend from school is there


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

embree said:


> my oldest friend from school is there


 
lucky him!


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

I always feel a bit sorry for the players who haven't had a game having to stand in all the celebration photos.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> I always feel a bit sorry for the players who haven't had a game having to stand in all the celebration photos.


 
Like monty.  Felt sorry for him yesterday but what can ye do...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

Anyway Santino, why in the fuck are you being so negative right now? You'll regret it later!


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't think sympathy's the word. They've been part of it, played the tour games, bowled in the nets, fielded, participated in the team spirit. Of course they wanted to play but they were very much part of the effort.

I do feel sorry for Stuart Broad though


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Thanks Colly  Great effort mate and his last ball in Test cricket took Michael Hussey's wicket


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

KP just made me lol in his interview


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

same


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

That's the England spirit - being rude about each other in the face of victory.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

That's Santino's spirit, being negative.


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> That's the England spirit - being rude about each other in the face of victory.


 
They're all just so damn relaxed and happy. The team spirit throughout has been an absolute marvel


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 7, 2011)

Lol @ nasser


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

I do have some sympathy for Clarke here. He's only in charge for this one Test (at the moment) but he's got to face the questions about the state of Australian cricket etc. Surely Ponting should be fielding some of these questions?


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

boo fucking hoo


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

It is true that England have basically won in English conditions, losing the test in the one place not affected by the wet summer.


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Right, I'm calling it a night. Enjoy everyone, we'll dissect the series tomorrow.

Smile, the sun's shining on English cricket. Choose your worst 90s memory - it doesn't hurt quite so much any more does it?

Marvellous


----------



## StanSmith (Jan 7, 2011)

As someone that knows almost nothing about cricket (outside the normal tabloid stuff) I would love to congratulate England on their (our) success.

I have watched more cricket this series than ever before and I must admit I have enjoyed more than any match I have had the fortune/mis-fortune to see.

Well done boys and have a beer or 10 for me!!


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## kabbes (Jan 7, 2011)

Amongst the joy, I feel a touch of melancholy this morning for the knowledge that it will almost certainly never again be this good.  This is as good as it gets.


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## DrRingDing (Jan 7, 2011)

embree said:


> it starts next month and carries on for about three years


 
Innit. I know it's almost a different game but I'd like to see the following.....

A Twenty20 tournament with virtually all the nations that want to play. Then use that as a qualifier for the 50 over world cup, say using the top 8 teams. Then, in turn using the World Cup as a qualifier for a test 'world cup' taking the top 4 teams.

I know you'd get anomolies like we have in the footie (with shit teams getting further than they ought) but it would generally set the men from the boys and give some coherence that world cricket is missing.

Plus it'd be fucking awesome.


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm very sceptical about all these Test championship ideas, but the one ray of hope in it is that it might encourage less flat surfaces that create tedious five-day batting practice matches.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Jan 7, 2011)

embree said:


> I do have some sympathy for Clarke here. He's only in charge for this one Test (at the moment) but he's got to face the questions about the state of Australian cricket etc. Surely Ponting should be fielding some of these questions?


wtf was ponting???  commentators made the point that its traditional for the losing captain to hand over the urn yet they gave that duty to vaughan.

very very enjoyable that, i'm glad to see an england side with a steely-eyed professionalism for a change and how good does it feel to thrash them ragged? :


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 7, 2011)

Well you have to say well played England, I never thought I'd live to see the aussies utterly humiliated in their own back yard.

The response of the aussie media has also been priceless, apparently this team which is essentially the same team that pushed England close in 09 are now the worst 11 ever, nothing to do with England being very strong in every department.

After the olympics, and the peanut huggers stuffing them at Twickenham recently this has just topped the total dominance we have over aussie sport.


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## DrRingDing (Jan 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> I'm very sceptical about all these Test championship ideas, but the one ray of hope in it is that it might encourage less flat surfaces that create tedious five-day batting practice matches.


 
Something needs to be done though. The test series' were designed when there wasn't the fast transport we have today. 

With the emergence of Twenty20 I feel we need some direct relation between the variations.

Otherwise we may weaken the sport overall.


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## DrRingDing (Jan 7, 2011)

It'd be possible to have a 4 year cycle.

First year play Twenty20, the second 50 overs then the 3rd the grand test finale.

With a year off.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 7, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It is true that England have basically won in English conditions, losing the test in the one place not affected by the wet summer.


 
None of the pitches they played on were exceptional for those grounds.


I haven't read any British press reports - I'm having too much fun reading the Australian papers


----------



## agricola (Jan 7, 2011)




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## souljacker (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't know what I enjoyed more in this series, England's fantastic performance or Australias nightmare. Watsons run out and Johnsons duck were possibly the funniest things I've ever seen in test cricket.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

Idaho said:


> None of the pitches they played on were exceptional for those grounds.



Except that they left more grass on to help their own quicks and negate Swann. Swann played a crucial role just being on the team sheet, scaring the Aussies into preparing pitches that were ideal for England's quicks! 

The big difference between the teams, I think, was reverse swing. England got it, Australia didn't. Both England and Pakistan's batsmen struggled last summer because both teams had bowlers who could reverse swing. Only Australia struggled this series because only England's bowlers could reverse it.

I think England would still have won had Australia not been panicked into producing green wickets for the last two tests, and even had it been hot and sunny, because Swann would have produced the goods as he did in Adelaide. But they wouldn't have absolutely thrashed them. The only good Aus bowler, imo, was Harris, and he's both old and physically fucked, so they really need to rip their attack up and start again, beginning with a ruthless decision over Johnson. Johnson reminds me both of Harmison and Devon Malcolm. The harsh truth is that England persevered with Malcolm because they were a poor team and there was nobody else to turn to, but eventually his inconsistency had to be dumped. Same with Johnson – he could pull the whole team down with him if they're not careful.


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## Idaho (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't think the reversing was the only difference. I think the biggest factor was the accuracy and consistency of the English attack. They had numerous sessions throughout the series where they strangled the batsmen with line and length. Conversely, while the Aussie attack had moments of pressure - it was never sustained. Either Johnson started flinging all over the show, or one of the others bowled a consistent, but predictable line that was milked.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 7, 2011)

Santino said:


> A bit hard on Anderson not getting man of the series.


tbf, it would have been equally hard on Cook if he hadn't got it.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 7, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> It is true that England have basically won in English conditions, losing the test in the one place not affected by the wet summer.


nope; 'typical English conditions' actually means 'pissing it down most of the time' - like in London today.
Celebrate people, this is a day to remember for all our lives; our boys utterly and totally demolished the aussie cricket team. It gets no better than this


----------



## Jazzz (Jan 7, 2011)

I never dreamt this was possible


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

One for the album:


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## Streathamite (Jan 7, 2011)

I recommend everyone read the aussie cricket press in depth and at length. the sheer pain in each word is both excruciating and hilarious


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## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Read summat interesting from either Vic Marks or Mike Selvey in the Graun. Basically saying that England were getting the ball to reverse earlier, after 20 overs or so, by bowling it cross seam when it was new so that it gets scuffed up off the pitch straight away. In other words, just ignoring trying to hit the seam at all, maximise the scuffing up of the ball immediately. Quite believable really, they had plans for everything.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

Yep, I read that. And making sure the fielders only held the ball between forefinger and thumb. It's impressive attention to detail.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

now the ashes are over, and won in fine style by the england, if you haven't heard, will this thread be the place for discussion of the t20 and odi series? there's a great deal more gloating to be done, that's for sure.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

I think the modern custom of holding the one-dayers after the tests is a big mistake. I couldn't care less who wins them now the test series has been decided.


----------



## Santino (Jan 7, 2011)

ODI could be held between Tests, to spread out the series (keep your prize bowlers well rested) and to give reserve and out-of-form players some practice.


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

I've also read a rumour  that England decided not to waste any marginal reviews on Hughes seeing as they knew they'd get him out easily enough anyway


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

I'm not sure I believe that rumour. He does have two test hundreds to his name.

However, I do think England's reverse-swing tactic – sacrificing some early conventional swing in order to achieve it – may partially explain Shane Watson's performance. He survived until the ball started reversing and perished soon after to the reversing ball.


----------



## agricola (Jan 7, 2011)

You know, watching the reviewless NZ vs Pak match makes one appreciate the review system all the more.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 7, 2011)

agricola said:


> You know, watching the reviewless NZ vs Pak match makes one appreciate the review system all the more.



yeah i agree. that mccullum let-off when he gloved it was a prime example. brings us back to the subject of batsmen walking or not when they know they're out, which mccullum blatantly realised he was.


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## Streathamite (Jan 7, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think the modern custom of holding the one-dayers after the tests is a big mistake. I couldn't care less who wins them now the test series has been decided.


same goes for me, so in that light (and assuming the paying public down under feel the same way), santino's idea (#3493) makes total sense


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## London_Calling (Jan 7, 2011)

Take your pick from this bunch of articles in The Australian:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/sport/cricket

Articles in the Sydney Morning Herald include 'Time for the axe, and chop from top down' and 'Shot to pieces by the Old Enemy':
http://www.smh.com.au/sport/cricket...ustralia-must-go-to-waugh-20110107-19iqy.html


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## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Have we mentioned David Saker being signed up for another three years as bowling coach? Rumour had it that he was about to be offered the Australia job. Must have looked at the current shambles of an organisation and decided against.

lbj: yeah, maybe a little far fetched but then again, there does seem to have been a general level headedness in the latter Tests about reviews, using them sparingly rather than the first time an appeal's turned down. Good to see.


----------



## London_Calling (Jan 7, 2011)

^ from at least one of those links I've posted you can wind up the convicts on Twitter as well. Perish the thought.


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## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Another great thing: Jimmy hiding the ball until the moment he let it go, denying the batsman any chance of seeing which way he was holding it. Great stuff


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## agricola (Jan 7, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> yeah i agree. that mccullum let-off when he gloved it was a prime example. brings us back to the subject of batsmen walking or not when they know they're out, which mccullum blatantly realised he was.


 
That moment is what inspired me to post that, it was outrageous and as you say there is no way he didnt know that he had hit it.


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

So, what were your favourite numbers of the series then?

A selection: 

517/1
2/3
1137/6
98 all out, 157/0
766 @ 127.66
24 @ 26.04
3-1


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## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Here's a good one:
Alastair Cook batted for 2150 minutes in the series
Australia batted for 3603 minutes


Edit: and that is Australia's 9 completed innings plus the second innings at Brisbane v Cook's 7 chances to bat


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## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Time spent at the crease by England's openers (7 innings): 2881 mins
Total Australian batting time (10 innings): 3603 mins

And so on


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)




----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Aggregate scores:

England: 2864/56 from 7 completed innings

Australia: 2524/90 from 9 completed innings (excluding Brisbane second innings)


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

I don't think you should exclude Brisbane second innings, tbf. They still had to bat out those three hours to secure the draw. 

And it's 2524/89 anyway.


----------



## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't think you should exclude Brisbane second innings, tbf. They still had to bat out those three hours to secure the draw.
> 
> And it's 2524/89 anyway.



This is what happens when you c&p from somewhere else


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

Poor old Ryan Harris. He scored 14 runs at an average of 3.5 and then couldn't bat. He was supposed to be a bit of an all-rounder.

He was their best bowler, mind you.

We've found a stat that Australia can cling to, though. They scored more runs than England in the series.


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## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

You watch, they'll hold this up as a reason it was closer than it looked. Like their supposed statistical superiority in 2009

Just seen, the ICC want to move the next Ashes down under to 2013/14, which would mean two Ashes series in a year. Madness


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

The 2009 series _was_ an odd one. It was England's lower order who won it for them, effectively.


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## killer b (Jan 7, 2011)

so, what's the connection between test cricket and radical politics? most of the commies & anarchists i know seem to be well into it. it doesn't seem the most obvious proletarian sport though.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

It's hard to explain my love of cricket. 

It isn't such a 'toff's game' as you might imagine, though. Yes, few state schools play it now, but there are plenty of clubs around the place, and most test/county cricketers come through the club system, not the public school system.


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## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I don't think you should exclude Brisbane second innings, tbf. They still had to bat out those three hours to secure the draw.
> 
> And it's 2524/89 anyway.


 
see edit, forgot to include the runs from Perth so we did score more runs than them after all


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## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

killer b said:


> so, what's the connection between test cricket and radical politics? most of the commies & anarchists i know seem to be well into it. it doesn't seem the most obvious proletarian sport though.


 
It totally is a working class sport. Downright wrong to say otherwise.

The TestMatchSofa commentary lot are generally a right load of hard lefties. They get Mark Steel on every now and again too.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 7, 2011)

Historically in England, it was both a toff's game and a working class game at the same time. While Rugby split into Union and League, cricket had that same amateur/pro split within the same teams with the gentlemen/player distinction. It's never been a game from which the working classes were excluded, though, in the way for instance golf or tennis used to be.

In short, cricket is for everyone and always has been. 

Not that it hasn't been riddled with class distinctions – the captain of England always had to be a Gentleman right up to WW2, for instance. But all sports reflect their societies.


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## DrRingDing (Jan 7, 2011)

killer b said:


> so, what's the connection between test cricket and radical politics? most of the commies & anarchists i know seem to be well into it. it doesn't seem the most obvious proletarian sport though.



Cricket reflects society. Us ruffians like to bowl fast at the flash ponces trying to lord it over us.


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## embree (Jan 7, 2011)

Mike Skinner pays tribute to Mike Selvey's Guardian report:


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## DrRingDing (Jan 7, 2011)




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## twentythreedom (Jan 8, 2011)

embree said:


> So, what were your favourite numbers of the series then?
> 
> A selection:
> 
> ...


 
1499/321.7 - add up the left column of numbers then right, it adds to something like what i said. maths aside, you get my point..


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## embree (Jan 8, 2011)

not really, no


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## kabbes (Jan 8, 2011)

Bresnan:

Average with bat: 19.50
Average with ball: 19.54

Swann averaged more than Clarke with the bat.


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## Streathamite (Jan 8, 2011)

Alastair Cook 766 from 7 innings; the second highest runs by an Englihman in an ashes Series, and from 3 less innings than Walter Hammond


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2011)

Here's a question:

Come the first test of the summer, assuming everyone is fit, is Stuart Broad in the team?


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## strung out (Jan 8, 2011)

yes


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## strung out (Jan 8, 2011)

maybe


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2011)

He takes on average 3 wickets per match at a cost of 35 runs. 

Is he really one of the top three quick bowlers in England?


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## strung out (Jan 8, 2011)

he can take colly's position. move prior up to 6, broad at 7, swann at 8 or 9, anderson at 10, then two out of bresnan, finn and tremlett.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 8, 2011)

I wouldn't be happy with Broad at 7. Not good enough, imo, his century against Pakistan last year notwithstanding – that score came after a long period of very low scores.


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## strung out (Jan 8, 2011)

i've got to admit, i've always had problems with broad myself actually. quite often has a mediocre series, saved by a reputation saving performance towards the end, see his 169 and decent performances with the ball at the end of the last ashes series. wouldn't be too fussed to see him go, though i rate him better than bresnan and certainly has more of a chance of being a genuine all rounder if that's what we're looking for (though, we might not be looking for that of course)


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## kabbes (Jan 8, 2011)

strung out said:


> i've got to admit, i've always had problems with broad myself actually. quite often has a mediocre series, saved by a reputation saving performance towards the end, see his 169 and decent performances with the ball at the end of the last ashes series. wouldn't be too fussed to see him go, though i rate him better than bresnan and certainly has more of a chance of being a genuine all rounder if that's what we're looking for (though, we might not be looking for that of course)


 
^^^Aye


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## Streathamite (Jan 8, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Here's a question:
> 
> Come the first test of the summer, assuming everyone is fit, is Stuart Broad in the team?


definitely


----------



## ferrelhadley (Jan 8, 2011)

Question was the 2005 team better than the 10/11 team? They only won at home and narrowly but by a team containing some of the greatest players of the past 30 years. While the 10/11 team crushed Australia on home turf but against a team that was a shadow of its former self?


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## embree (Jan 8, 2011)

Current team, every time


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## Santino (Jan 9, 2011)

Broad has the lowest economy rate of any bowler (and this without the benefit of the collapse at Melbourne). He's a very useful bowler as part of that attack, and like Flintoff his figures may never reflect his contribution to the side. Conditions notwithstanding, I think the first choice pace attack for England should be Jimmy, Broad and Tremlett.


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## Balbi (Jan 9, 2011)

I think Tremlett's going to be fearsome with more Test experience. The man is a giant


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## Idaho (Jan 9, 2011)

Broad may not be the best bowler currently but in many ways he's the best prospect. He's got to convert the occasional brilliance with bat and ball into regular brilliance.


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## DrRingDing (Jan 9, 2011)

Balbi said:


> I think Tremlett's going to be fearsome with more Test experience. The man is a giant


 
I like Warne's subtlety "He's a _MONSTER_!"


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 9, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Broad may not be the best bowler currently but in many ways he's the best prospect. He's got to convert the occasional brilliance with bat and ball into regular brilliance.


 
He's only shown 'brilliance' with the bat once. And although I would not wish to downplay that innings too much, it was a fortunate innings against a team that lost its way. I am far from convinced that he'll ever be anything other than a useful lower-order hitter. 

As for his bowling, he was supposed to be a 'prospect' two years ago. He's now played over 30 tests and his record is underwhelming. It seems nothing short of favouritism that Broad can put in a series of mediocre performances and not be dropped when the likes of Finn are not given such favours. His injury did England a favour in this series – his replacement, Tremlett, performed far better than Broad had been performing.


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## Santino (Jan 9, 2011)

Yeah, I don't trust that Strauss and Flower pair. What have they ever done?


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## embree (Jan 9, 2011)

Broad had been bowling well, without luck and creating pressure which paid off for other bowlers. Bowling's a team effort


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 9, 2011)

Broad had been doing ok. Tremlett provided a whole new level of penetration.


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## Streathamite (Jan 10, 2011)

ferrelhadley said:


> Question was the 2005 team better than the 10/11 team? They only won at home and narrowly but by a team containing some of the greatest players of the past 30 years. While the 10/11 team crushed Australia on home turf but against a team that was a shadow of its former self?


the 2005 team were up against a far better aussie team, and probably had more natural talent, but this side will achieve more; more determined and consistent


----------



## Idaho (Jan 10, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> As for his bowling, he was supposed to be a 'prospect' two years ago. He's now played over 30 tests and his record is underwhelming. It seems nothing short of favouritism that Broad can put in a series of mediocre performances and not be dropped when the likes of Finn are not given such favours. His injury did England a favour in this series – his replacement, Tremlett, performed far better than Broad had been performing.



I believe the practice is to give players a chance until their mid-20s and if they remain average, or just a bit better than average, then they make way for younger prospects who may develop further.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 10, 2011)

I think I'd probably take the batting line-up from this team, the pace attack of that team, plus Swann. That the 2005 team didn't have a quality wicket-taking spinner is the biggest difference between the sides. Tough, though – would you choose Jones or Tremlett, for instance? I'm not sure.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 10, 2011)

Personally I think we need 6 or 7 world class seamers.  There will always be injuries, so whether Broad is better than Tremlett is a bit of a redendant question.  Anyway they've been rotating for a while now so strength is depth is vital.

One of the major problems with post 2005 was that we didnt have anybody coming through to replace the injured or too old.  I'm really encouraged that Tremlett and Bresnan both came in to do a great job and we've got Broad, Shazad and Onions waiting in the wings.

The batting and keeping also looks pretty rosy at the moment, in fact in all looks good from here.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 10, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> The batting and keeping also looks pretty rosy at the moment, in fact in all looks good from here.


nevertheless, we could do with another top-class opener/No 3, also as an insurance against injuries


----------



## Idaho (Jan 10, 2011)

I don't think we need one at the moment. I just think we need to be looking and developing young batsmen.

Would be good if Rashid came good, but from all reports it's sounding less likely.

I've always thought that Broad was being groomed for captaincy. Especially with the cameo spouting the official team line for a day on TMS.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jan 10, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I think I'd probably take the batting line-up from this team, the pace attack of that team, plus Swann. That the 2005 team didn't have a quality wicket-taking spinner is the biggest difference between the sides. Tough, though – would you choose Jones or Tremlett, for instance? I'm not sure.


 
Jones could produce more lateral movement. Depends on the track I suppose.


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 10, 2011)

I'd go for something along the lines of this.. Vaughan, Cook, Trott, Pietersen, Bell, Flintoff, Prior, Swann, Tremlett, Anderson, Jones. It doesn't look right though


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 10, 2011)

Tough on Tresco, but yes, hard to squeeze him in. I'd drop Vaughan to 3 and have tresco opening with Cook, I think. Trott's made a mighty good start to his career but I'd still rather have Trescothick.

That's a damn good team


----------



## Santino (Jan 10, 2011)

My line-up would basically be the current one but with Flintoff at 6 for Bell. Sorry, Bell. And sorry Hoggy.


----------



## mattie (Jan 10, 2011)

What would happen if we tried the 2005 vs 2009 vintage Oz team, I wonder? 

I tell a lie, I don't wonder at all.


----------



## mattie (Jan 10, 2011)

Santino said:


> My line-up would basically be the current one but with Flintoff at 6 for Bell. Sorry, Bell. And sorry Hoggy.


 
No Vaughan?

That's ruined my next question, I was going to ask who we all reckoned as Captain.  Now it's a choice between Strauss, Freddie and KP.


----------



## Santino (Jan 10, 2011)

I think it's two-times Ashes winning captain Andrew Strauss for me.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 10, 2011)

Santino said:


> My line-up would basically be the current one but with Flintoff at 6 for Bell. Sorry, Bell. And sorry Hoggy.


 
You'd have collingwood and Bresnan/Broad? Odd.


----------



## mattie (Jan 10, 2011)

Santino said:


> I think it's two-times Ashes winning captain Andrew Strauss for me.


 
I think even Freddie might have done the job on this tour.


----------



## Santino (Jan 10, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> You'd have collingwood and Bresnan/Broad? Odd.


 
I would keep the bowling attack together. Bowlers like that hunt in packs (Copyright 2005-10 all cricket writers) and picking and choosing from two squads wouldn't necessarily give you a good attack.

And Colly? Yeah. Better than 2005-era Bell, or 2005-era Vaughan for that matter.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 10, 2011)

I'd keep the current side, but swap Flintoff for Collingwood.


----------



## mattie (Jan 10, 2011)

So, no-one would take a batsman who flogged an in-his-pomp McGrath around the Oz grounds?  Slightly different test to milking Johnson.


----------



## Santino (Jan 10, 2011)

mattie said:


> So, no-one would take a batsman who flogged an in-his-pomp McGrath around the Oz grounds?  Slightly different test to milking Johnson.


 
He wasn't all that in 2005 though. One big score and not much else. You've got to temper fantasy selection with a little reality about consistency and form.


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 10, 2011)

embree said:


> not really, no



we won, by fucking miles. that's the point!


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

If I were dropping a member of the 2009 team for 2005 Flintoff, it would have to be Colly rather than Bell, much as it pains me to lose Colly.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Pietersen had another mediocre tour, actually, one big score aside.  There's a place vulnerable to another 2005 player.

I'd still stick with the 2009 line-up though, Freddy aside.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Pietersen had another mediocre tour, actually, one big score aside.  There's a place vulnerable to another 2005 player.
> 
> I'd still stick with the 2009 line-up though, Freddy aside.


 
His average was 70?   One big score aside?  It was a double century against australia in australia.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> His average was 70?   One big score aside?  It was a double century against australia in australia.


 
60, actually.  And take out his single good innings (which, no matter how good, was still just one innings) and he averaged just *26.6 *for the remaining five innings he played.  That's not good.

For comparison, here are the averages for the other top batsman exclusing their highest score:

Cook: 88.5
Trott: 46.2
Bell: 42.8
Strauss: 32.9
Prior: 26.8

It gives you an idea of how consistent they were, rather than it being disguised by a single good performance.


----------



## Santino (Jan 11, 2011)

It's good (in the context of team development) that KP is just another batsman among batsmen now. A strong, consistent side wins Test series, not star players.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> 60, actually.  And take out his single good innings (which, no matter how good, was still just one innings) and he averaged just *26.6 *for the remaining five innings he played.  That's not good.
> 
> For comparison, here are the averages for the other top batsman exclusing their highest score:
> 
> ...


 
Given that the team has seven frontline batsmen, each of whom gets two gos per match, how important is consistency? TBH if each of the top six makes a double hundred in a five-match series, that's one hell of a start.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Given that the team has seven frontline batsmen, each of whom gets two gos per match, how important is consistency?


 
Very important.

Look, I'm not denying that KP is good to have.  I was just raising the possibility that within the context of a discussion of the 2005 and 2010 teams, it might be that KP's place _could_ be vulnerable.  To me, he was the weakest of the batsmen after Collingwood.

But I concluded, if you remember rightly, that he could keep his place.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

First Twenty20 tomorrow, for anyone with any appetite for it.

It's on at a less ungodly hour as well.

I must say that any bowling line-up which includes both Tait and Johnson could be 'interesting'.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

Restricting this to the top six, they potentially get 12 gos per match. 

If you have a batter who makes a big score every five or six innings and otherwise mostly fails, you're doing well.

That's why overall average is the most telling stat.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> First Twenty20 tomorrow, for anyone with any appetite for it.
> 
> It's on at a less ungodly hour as well.
> 
> I must say that any bowling line-up which includes both Tait and Johnson could be 'interesting'.


 
Tait would of made a difference to the test series IMO. The last time I saw him against England he tore through the order.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Tait would of made a difference to the test series IMO. The last time I saw him against England he tore through the order.


 
Not in my opinion, never test standard, just another wang it as fast as you can slinger.  Many great fast bowlers have had bad injuries and modified their bowling style to continue playing (Akhtar, Ambrose, Walsh etc etc), they all had in common that they wernt just fast they were clever bowlers.

Tait is completly one dimensional and would have been found out everywhere except the fastest pitches. He'd done alright at Perth but would have gone all round the park everywhere else, just like a certain other one dimensional wanger.


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 11, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Tait would of made a difference to the test series IMO. The last time I saw him against England he tore through the order.



Tait getting twatted by Pollard


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Restricting this to the top six, they potentially get 12 gos per match.
> 
> If you have a batter who makes a big score every five or six innings and otherwise mostly fails, you're doing well.
> 
> That's why overall average is the most telling stat.


 
If you have six batsmen who only get runs worth speaking of one in six innings then a staggering *one in three* innings will see your whole team fail (which will necessitate a desperate rear-guard action in the next innings) and, even assuming an independence that doesn't exist, you will score completely fuck all in *one in nine* test matches.

Another way of putting it: in a five match series, you can expect your team to score something like 100-150 all out for their first innings in one or two matches.  You're then just hoping that they can rescue it in their second innings, but they're not going to win the match from there.

That's no way to be a force in world cricket.  It's simply not good enough.  Your batsmen either need to get a great score 1-in-6 and do reasonably OK the rest of the time or they need to be getting great scores more like 2-in-6 or 3-in-6, in which case they can be rubbish the rest of the time.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

^^^^^ What has any of this actually got to do with cricket?


----------



## Santino (Jan 11, 2011)

Yeah, what place do stats have in cricket?


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> 60, actually.  And take out his single good innings (which, no matter how good, was still just one innings) and he averaged just *26.6 *for the remaining five innings he played.  That's not good.
> 
> For comparison, here are the averages for the other top batsman exclusing their highest score:
> 
> ...


alternatively; pieterson got a double ton, a half-century, 43 (still OK), 36, and then tyhe double disaster that was perth and applie
s to every English batsman. Of 6 innings, that'sa more than OK, and hardly his (or Bell's fault), if they didn't get maximum chances at the wicket


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## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> ^^^^^ What has any of this actually got to do with cricket?


 
That KP scoring a fantastic score in one innings and averaging 26.6 for his other five innings should make his place _potentially_ vulnerable to another top-drawer batsman.  That he should be more vulnerable (based on this series alone) than Cook, Trott, Bell and Strauss.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Yeah, what place do stats have in cricket?


 
Far too high a place, in my honest opinion.


----------



## Santino (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> Far too high a place, in my honest opinion.


 
Get. Off. This. Thread.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> alternatively; pieterson got a double ton, a half-century, 43 (still OK), 36, and then tyhe double disaster that was perth and applie
> s to every English batsman. Of 6 innings, that'sa more than OK, and hardly his (or Bell's fault), if they didn't get maximum chances at the wicket


 
Despite that "double disaster", the other English batsmen still managed to average much higher that Pietersen did when you exclude their best score.  

Bell averaged 42.8 from his five innings excluding his best score.  Two of those innings were at Perth.

In a way, this is the point -- Perth wouldn't have been a disaster if we didn't have batsmen that failed!


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Get. Off. This. Thread.


 
I prefer my sports without standard deviations, ta muchly.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> If you have six batsmen who only get runs worth speaking of one in six innings then a staggering *one in three* innings will see your whole team fail (which will necessitate a desperate rear-guard action in the next innings) and, even assuming an independence that doesn't exist, you will score completely fuck all in *one in nine* test matches.


except that doesn't apply to England cos a) with Broad fit, they have a long top-class batting order b) they have cook and trott who seem guaranteed 1 in every 3 to score shedloads and b) statto corner knoweth not psychology.
Ergo, Pietersen's record eminently worthwhile, ditto the one-every-four-test-or-so shambolic England batting collapse.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> In a way, this is the point -- Perth wouldn't have been a disaster if we didn't have batsmen that failed!


except English batsmen have been failing at Perth regularly and consistently since the early 70s!
and the point on bell don't hold; pietersen scored a double-century.; strauss didn't, bell didn't, trott didn't, and only the latter looked like getting near.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> That KP scoring a fantastic score in one innings and averaging 26.6 for his other five innings should make his place _potentially_ vulnerable to another top-drawer batsman.  That he should be more vulnerable (based on this series alone) than Cook, Trott, Bell and Strauss.


 
Good job we don't select on one series alone then, particuarly when someone has just averaged 60, although clearly they were the wrong sort of runs.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Yeah, what place do stats have in cricket?


 
Relevant stats are useful, the other stats are just for bearded oddballs that love the game but couldnt even hold a bat let alone use it.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Surprising level of defensiveness in support of KP!  Especially given my conclusion was that he was still better than any of the batsmen from 2005.


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## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Relevant stats are useful, the other stats are just for bearded oddballs that love the game but couldnt even hold a bat let alone use it.


 
Pretty much my opinion.  

I do think they sometimes  make for interesting hypotheticals though - for example, what would have happened to the career averages of Matthew Hayden and Stephen Fleming if we swapped them across the Tasman?


----------



## Idaho (Jan 11, 2011)

I really don't mind if we drop Pieterson. I think everyone buys into the hype - and so it becomes necessary to play him. We believe that we are weaker without him, and so do the opposition. However the reality is that most of the time he doesn't get scores.


----------



## Santino (Jan 11, 2011)

Yeah, those cunts who enjoy looking at stats. They deserve our scorn.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> Pretty much my opinion.
> 
> I do think they sometimes  make for interesting hypotheticals though - for example, what would have happened to the career averages of Matthew Hayden and Stephen Fleming if we swapped them across the Tasman?


 
That's the pointless side of stats. Kabbes is correct with his analysis. It shows the rate at which you need to be scoring and performing as a batsman.


----------



## Santino (Jan 11, 2011)

Should a batting line-up be picked in the same way as a bowling attack, i.e. to fulfill different roles? Or do you just pick your best batsmen?


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Should a batting line-up be picked in the same way as a bowling attack, i.e. to fulfill different roles? Or do you just pick your best batsmen?



Definitely different roles - look at the emphasis placed on Clarke's ability to bat at 4 rather than 5, dropping Ponting down from 3, whether Bell can bat at 3 (or 4 or 5 or 6). Guess it depends on the strength of the tail as well?


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Surprising level of defensiveness in support of KP!  Especially given my conclusion was that he was still better than any of the batsmen from 2005.



Not really, wasnt it you earlier in this thread agreeing that you can't take Hussey's and Haddin's score out of the aussie's first innings at the gabba and then say they struggled?  Well you can't really take KP's double century out and then say he struggled.  Yeah, he'd probably wanted another big score but if he averages 60 in the next few series I'll take that even if he scores 400 in the 1st test and then nothing in the rest.

For a long time now I've thought that England 'fans' (well some of them) don't deserve KP (not including you in this btw, general point).  KP bashing has become a bit of a constant and quite frankly I'm bored of it.  His stats speak for themselves, but because his personality doesnt fit or because he has a tendency to lose his wicket playing a big shot he should be dropped.

Its all bollocks really, we should just get behind our talented players and hopefully they will continue to develop.  As someone who watched so much English rubbish in the 1990's I'm pretty glad he's around.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

Idaho said:


> That's the pointless side of stats. Kabbes is correct with his analysis. It shows the rate at which you need to be scoring and performing as a batsman.


 
The question you should be asking is - would Matthew Hayden have had the freedom to be so aggressive in his approach without Warne and McGrath in the team?  It's not even solely down to Hayden's decisions, the opposition Captain would have more than Hayden's strengths and weaknesses to consider when setting a field - which would impact Hayden's percentages, strike rate etc etc ad infinitum.

I mention this as it's something that should always be considered, but is pretty much always excluded form any statistical consideration. Basically trying to express anything as joyously variable and inscrutable as Test cricket in a few percentages is hardly representative.  Where they are useful is in identifying anomalies or interesting patterns and seeking an explanation for them.  Essentially, as the precursor to a question, not the answer to a question.

I would argue the above is the relevant side of stats, not the pointless.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

Idaho said:


> I really don't mind if we drop Pieterson. I think everyone buys into the hype - and so it becomes necessary to play him. We believe that we are weaker without him, and so do the opposition. However the reality is that most of the time he doesn't get scores.


 
Rot.


----------



## Santino (Jan 11, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> Definitely different roles - look at the emphasis placed on Clarke's ability to bat at 4 rather than 5, dropping Ponting down from 3, whether Bell can bat at 3 (or 4 or 5 or 6). Guess it depends on the strength of the tail as well?


 
I know people talk about it, but I don't know whether it really means anything.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

But that side of stats is pointless in that it doesn't tell you who you should pick for the team or whether that person is doing well. Hayden did well for Aus, Fleming did well for NZ. One averaged 50, the other 40. Comparisons across teams or eras are purely of academic interest – v. good eg would be Kaheer Khan: his low-30s bowling average shows that he's a very good bowler because he plays half his matches in India. If he were South African, that average would be far less impressive.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

Idaho said:


> That's the pointless side of stats. Kabbes is correct with his analysis. It shows the rate at which you need to be scoring and performing as a batsman.


 
Kabbes analysis although no doubt statistically correct doesnt have much grounding in actual cricket though, thats just not how the game works.  Theres so many other factors involved, its not always how many you get its when you get them, against who?  In what conditions? etc etc

Pieterson for example has scored big runs against great attacks when the chips are really down, up until this series (and perhaps even still) the same could not be said for Bell.  Yet apparently Bell is the first name on the team sheet these days.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

Over a long career, your headline average tells a pretty good story, though.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> But that side of stats is pointless in that it doesn't tell you who you should pick for the team or whether that person is doing well. Hayden did well for Aus, Fleming did well for NZ. One averaged 50, the other 40. Comparisons across teams or eras are purely of academic interest – v. good eg would be Kaheer Khan: his low-30s bowling average shows that he's a very good bowler because he plays half his matches in India. If he were South African, that average would be far less impressive.


 
Yes.  Stats won't tell you that.  Judgement of ability, fitness, form, confidence etc etc tell you that.

Was the decision to put Bresnan in for Finn based on statistics?


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> But that side of stats is pointless in that it doesn't tell you who you should pick for the team or whether that person is doing well. Hayden did well for Aus, Fleming did well for NZ. One averaged 50, the other 40. Comparisons across teams or eras are purely of academic interest – v. good eg would be Kaheer Khan: his low-30s bowling average shows that he's a very good bowler because he plays half his matches in India. If he were South African, that average would be far less impressive.



India is a graveyard for seam bowlers, if zaheer khan played in SA his figures would be way more impressive.  He's an excellent and underated bowler.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Kabbes analysis although no doubt statistically correct doesnt have much grounding in actual cricket though, thats just not how the game works.  Theres so many other factors involved, its not always how many you get its when you get them, against who?  In what conditions? etc etc
> 
> Pieterson for example has scored big runs against great attacks when the chips are really down, up until this series (and perhaps even still) the same could not be said for Bell.  Yet apparently Bell is the first name on the team sheet these days.


 
Exactly that.  Any numerical analysis relies upon identifying and quantifying all salient factors.  Which you simply cannot do, in any meaningful way, in cricket.

As I mentioned before, career averages will begin to converge to something representative, _but it's not solely representative of the individual_.   I maintain - what would Hayden's and Flemings' career averages look like if the nationalities were reversed?


----------



## Idaho (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Kabbes analysis although no doubt statistically correct doesnt have much grounding in actual cricket though, thats just not how the game works.  Theres so many other factors involved, its not always how many you get its when you get them, against who?  In what conditions? etc etc
> 
> Pieterson for example has scored big runs against great attacks when the chips are really down, up until this series (and perhaps even still) the same could not be said for Bell.  Yet apparently Bell is the first name on the team sheet these days.


 
Because consistency is the holy grail for selectors. They know they can pick someone and that's 40 runs in the bank. Whereas the Pieterson types are totally maddening to watch. They veer (often within the same over) between brilliance and idiocy.


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## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Over a long career, your headline average tells a pretty good story, though.


 
Definitely.  Although your "true" average changes over a career, so even this can hide the story.

I'd say that the most meaningful average for a batsman at any given time is probably the moving average judged over the last 20 innings (or possibly 12 months).  It's long enough to gain some statistical credibility but short enough not to include irrelevant data.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

Yes. Michael Hussey is in fact an example of a player whose place in the team was saved by relatively ancient performances. He was a very lucky boy to start this last Ashes series.


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## Santino (Jan 11, 2011)

Could well have been 5-0 without Hussey.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

True. His selection was a triumph of hope over experience, though. I would actually use this 8-month break from test cricket to retire both him and Ponting.


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## Santino (Jan 11, 2011)

Retire Hussey? Srsly?


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## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Definitely.  Although your "true" average changes over a career, so even this can hide the story.
> 
> I'd say that the most meaningful average for a batsman at any given time is probably the moving average judged over the last 20 innings (or possible 12 months).  It's long enough to gain some statistical credibility but short enough not to include irrelevant data.


 
12 months is for me perhaps not long enough.  Last winter England toured SA, facing Steyne and Morkal on their own turf was never going to be easy.  Then the English summer was dominated by the bowlers because the ball was hooping around, it was a very strange summer to say the least.

As a result England went into this last series with some bowlers quite high in the rankings but with only Trott featuring in the batting rankings.

Its not easy for selectors because there are so many intangibles to consider and stats only help us so far.  It think perhaps the last 24 months would give a more accurate representation, but how many struggling cricketers get given two years to sort their technique out?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Retire Hussey? Srsly?


 
Yep. He had three glorious tests. These came after a prolonged slump, and I saw signs of that slump returning in the last two matches.


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## Santino (Jan 11, 2011)

If you really wanted to track your own players, you could also make adustments for easy chances given in otherwise good innings (e.g., if you give an easy catch to first slip that goes down, your score is counted from that point, and not the 127 runs scored subsequently), and for poor decisions given by the umpire.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Its not easy for selectors because there are so many intangibles to consider and stats only help us so far.  It think perhaps the last 24 months would give a more accurate representation, but *how many struggling cricketers get given two years to sort their technique out?*


 
A certain Michael Hussey.


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## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

In terms of sorting your technique out: this is where trends are so important.  It's not just about where you are, it's about which direction you're moving in.  Looking at the trend of your moving average will tell you whether a batsman is generally on his way up or down.

24 months might be more appropriate.  Cricket is a slow moving game without many matches!  (But that's why I prefer something based on number of innings instead.)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> If you really wanted to track your own players, you could also make adustments for easy chances given in otherwise good innings (e.g., if you give an easy catch to first slip that goes down, your score is counted from that point, and not the 127 runs scored subsequently), and for poor decisions given by the umpire.


 
Not quite – those 127 runs count hugely as an innings in themselves after the catch. Also players can have a bad day – Watson was dropped twice before he was finally out for 5 in the last test. You shouldn't penalise that too much.

That said, players can go on a horrible run of luck sometimes. Hussein had a trot of unfortunate dismissals.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

Or you could just watch them play.

Stats are retrospective.  Better to be a little more proactive, perhaps, rather than summing it up and noting at the end of a lost series that the batsmen weren't very good?

It seems to me Hughes was picked on statistical form - if not immediately recent, than over a period of time.  It's the only way my poor tiny mind can rationalise how that stance and technique got anywhere near an Ashes opener berth.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

Graeme Smith has a horrible technique. And a great test record. 

It's not just Hughes' loose technique that makes him so crap. It's also his awful judgement.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Graeme Smith has a horrible technique. And a great test record.
> 
> It's not just Hughes' loose technique that makes him so crap. It's also his awful judgement.



It's Smith's mentality that sets him apart, a significant factor in getting the Captaincy so young.

But, God, Hughes was awful, wasn't he?


----------



## embree (Jan 11, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> except Enfglish batsmen have been failing at Perth regularly and consistently since the early 70s!
> and the point on bell don't hold; pietersen scored a double-century.; strauss didn't, bell didn't, trott dodn't, and only the latter looked like getting near.


 
more than that - non WA batsmen have been struggling at Perth for a long time.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Just watching them play can take you both ways though.  You have all kinds of unconscious biases, for a start -- if I think a player is a good player then I will subconsciously tend to pick up on what he does well and discount what he does badly.  That's just built into us.  The only way to avoid that is have some kind of bias-free objective framework to use as a context.

The other problem is, well, take Pietersen as an example.  Watching him for six innings, I could just as easily conclude that he is a liability who gives his wicket away than I could conclude that he is a match-winning batsman.  Without objective success criteria, you're still left arguing about the same things anyway!


----------



## Santino (Jan 11, 2011)

I like to think that KP contributed this series by making Australia search high and low for a left-arm spinner, no matter how shit they were.


----------



## embree (Jan 11, 2011)

Regarding previous comments about Tait, he would've made a difference to the Test series only in that England would have made even more massive scores. He's even more of a basket case than Johnson, which is why he only plays 20/20


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Just watching them play can take you both ways though.  You have all kinds of unconscious biases, for a start -- if I think a player is a good player then I will subconsciously tend to pick up on what he does well and discount what he does badly.  That's just built into us.  The only way to avoid that is have some kind of bias-free objective framework to use as a context.


 
Yes. To go back to Smith, you look at him bat and you think 'oh he won't last long'. Then you come back a few hours later, and he's got a hundred, and still looks like he won't last long. His double hundreds against England a few years ago are among my most frustrating cricket-watching memories. You can't knock his stats, though – he knows his own game and he knows what he can and can't do, and crucially sticks rigidly to it.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

embree said:


> Regarding previous comments about Tait, he would've made a difference to the Test series only in that England would have made even more massive scores. He's even more of a basket case than Johnson, which is why he only plays 20/20


 
I thought he went down to 2020 because of injuries.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jan 11, 2011)

embree said:


> Regarding previous comments about Tait, he would've made a difference to the Test series only in that England would have made even more massive scores. He's even more of a basket case than Johnson, which is why he only plays 20/20


 
He's got a ODI average of 23. Better than most of Englands bowlers.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jan 11, 2011)

....and he hasn't played enough tests to be judge fully.


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## embree (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I thought he went down to 2020 because of injuries.


 
bit more to it than that I think. you have to want to return from injury to be able to do so and he just couldn't be arsed


----------



## DrRingDing (Jan 11, 2011)




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## DrRingDing (Jan 11, 2011)

Like shit off a shovel. I wouldn't want to face it.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

Yeah, I have to say that I'd have loved to have seen Tait tearing in in the Ashes.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Just watching them play can take you both ways though.  You have all kinds of unconscious biases, for a start -- if I think a player is a good player then I will subconsciously tend to pick up on what he does well and discount what he does badly.  That's just built into us.  The only way to avoid that is have some kind of bias-free objective framework to use as a context.
> 
> The other problem is, well, take Pietersen as an example.  Watching him for six innings, I could just as easily conclude that he is a liability who gives his wicket away than I could conclude that he is a match-winning batsman.  Without objective success criteria, you're still left arguing about the same things anyway!


 
A footballing analogy - Arsene Wenger insists his scouts find out about a footballer's home life and personality before he thinks of signing them.  If he thinks he could bring them to Arsenal and improve them, he will.  Their record might not be that terrifying, but that's not important.  They might have 'failed' for all sorts of reasons, reasons which can be addressed.  Conversely their records might exceed their abilities (preferential treatment, well-suited to a given system etc).

If you can quantify that in something worthy of statistical analysis, you're a better man than me.

I'm not dismissing stats, but I worry that some people are seeing judgement as subservient to statistics (I'm not assuming anyone's position on this thread, btw).  In my mind and in my experience it should be the other way round.  Statistics can provide a useful insight and pointer as to where to begin enquiry, but in that specific order.  Stats will identify good batman (to follow the example), but - with the possible exception of Hughes and maybe Smith - all of the batsman in the frame for selection are good batsmen and have good records.  What separates them?


----------



## embree (Jan 11, 2011)

Quick google suggests injuries played no part in his decision to retire from First Class cricket. He just can't be bothered to play it.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> In terms of sorting your technique out: this is where trends are so important.  It's not just about where you are, it's about which direction you're moving in.  Looking at the trend of your moving average will tell you whether a batsman is generally on his way up or down.


 
An approach which would have meant Alistair Cook watching the ashes on TV.  I have no doubt that the selectors look at all these stats and they are certainly a decent tool, but they have shown repeatedly that they do not over rely on stats.  

Gut instinct continues to play a key role in selection, which of course can backfire, like the aussies leaving out clearly their best spinner (best of a bad bunch) because of some sort of vague feeling that he hasnt got the bottle.


----------



## embree (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah, I have to say that I'd have loved to have seen Tait tearing in in the Ashes.


 
remember seeing him at Trent Bridge in 2005. He was laughable. Completely erratic.

Comments I remember hearing at various points through the Ashes suggest he can't hold it together for more than a couple of overs at a time. This being the case, yeah, I'd have loved to have seen him playing against England


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

Thing is, how do you define a good batsman? 

It is by the number of runs he scores. 

Mark Ramprakash had the best technique of any Englishman of his generation. But he was a poor test batsman, not for any technical reason, simply because he had a psychological block over scoring more than 40. To go back to Kabbes's point, ramps was very consistent, but never made the big scores, and so he was a failure.


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## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Like shit off a shovel. I wouldn't want to face it.


 
I would, test of nerve, test of technique plus he'd give you loads of freebies.  Its the dull line and length stuff I don't want to face.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

I think you're hugely underestimating what can be done with statistics.  To be fair, the incredibly simple things being spoken about on this thread don't help -- it's like dismissing epic poetry because you don't like limericks.

Think of it this way -- every factor you are using is, by definition, a criterion that you are using some function to evaluate.  Even if this evaluation is subconscious, you _must_ be able to order two alternatives to be able to use it to make a judgement.

If you can codify that evaluation, if you can make the evaluation function explicit, then you can use the same data that you are using (i.e. what is in front of you) in a more systematic fashion and produce an objective valuation.

It's not easy, but (a) it's been done for harder tasks than this; and (b) cricket is prime for the task because it is in any case so inherently statistical in nature.  Unlike, for example, football.

This is a wider digression, of course.  I'm not suggesting that it is what is happening when we look at KP's average score.


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## embree (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Thing is, how do you define a good batsman?
> 
> It is by the number of runs he scores.
> 
> Mark Ramprakash had the best technique of any Englishman of his generation. But he was a poor test batsman, not for any technical reason, simply because he had a psychological block over scoring more than 40. To go back to Kabbes's point, ramps was very consistent, but never made the big scores, and so he was a failure.


 
Trescothick's average when he was first picked for England was nothing special. The sort of average loads of county openers have. Clearly Fletcher and at the time he definitely was pulling the selectorial strings) saw something in him that wasn't there in other candidates.


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## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Thing is, how do you define a good batsman?
> 
> It is by the number of runs he scores.
> 
> Mark Ramprakash had the best technique of any Englishman of his generation. But he was a poor test batsman, not for any technical reason, simply because he had a psychological block over scoring more than 40. To go back to Kabbes's point, ramps was very consistent, but never made the big scores, and so he was a failure.


 
Well yeah, but you don't need stats to tell you that he wasnt up to it (when his chance came).  Thing is if a young Ramprakash was selected to play for England now, with this set up, with this changing room mentality I think he would succead.


----------



## embree (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I would, test of nerve, test of technique plus he'd give you loads of freebies.  Its the dull line and length stuff I don't want to face.


 
I was at Cape Town in 2003 watching Shoaib Akhtar bowl against England. Terrifyingly fast but easily left and if you caught one it flew - remember Nick Knight top edging a six over the keeper's head. Neutrals were wetting themselves over him hitting 100mph but England fans were intensely relaxed abbout it because it simply wasn't threatening. Pace isn't everything


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

"What the selectors saw" is not some kind of soothsaying, though.  They are using "data" (i.e. what they can see of a player) and some kind of subconscious algorithm in order to evaluate and order the players.  

There is no inherent reason why these data and algorithms should not be made explicit.  It's a hard task (and when a mathematician says "hard", he doesn't mean "tricky") but it could theoretically be done.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Thing is, how do you define a good batsman?
> 
> It is by the number of runs he scores.
> 
> Mark Ramprakash had the best technique of any Englishman of his generation. But he was a poor test batsman, not for any technical reason, simply because he had a psychological block over scoring more than 40. To go back to Kabbes's point, ramps was very consistent, but never made the big scores, and so he was a failure.


 
That's my point!

Ramps, and indeed Hick, did not have the necessary 'ability' (synthesise that how you want) to make Test batsmen of a quality that their county stats indicate.  The selectors were constantly seduced by said county figures.

From reading a few biographies I'd argue that many such disappointments at Test level were as related to the poisonous changing room atmosphere (itself a function of shitty selection policy, constantly reacting 'the stats') than any inherent lack of ability.  The stats should have indicated that the problems lay elsewhere - and every effort should have been made to eradicate those problems.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> That's my point!
> 
> Ramps, and indeed Hick, did not have the necessary 'ability' (synthesise that how you want) to make Test batsmen of a quality that their county stats indicate.  The selectors were constantly seduced by said county figures.


Even ignoring the kind of advanced statistics I am talking about, this kind of thing is easily addressed by concentrating on test performances rather than county performances.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> "What the selectors saw" is not some kind of soothsaying, though.  They are using "data" (i.e. what they can see of a player) and some kind of subconscious algorithm in order to evaluate and order the players.
> 
> There is no inherent reason why these data and algorithms should not be made explicit.  It's a hard task (and when a mathematician says "hard", he doesn't mean "tricky") but it could theoretically be done.


 
The human is the greatest inference engine going.  Any analysis can only answer the questions it's constructed to answer.  

We might one day mimic human comprehension artificially, but do not hold your breath.


----------



## DrRingDing (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I would, test of nerve, test of technique plus he'd give you loads of freebies.  Its the dull line and length stuff I don't want to face.


 
To be fair, I'm a bowler and thus shy of the quick stuff.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I think you're hugely underestimating what can be done with statistics.  To be fair, the incredibly simple things being spoken about on this thread don't help -- it's like dismissing epic poetry because you don't like limericks.
> 
> Think of it this way -- every factor you are using is, by definition, a criterion that you are using some function to evaluate.  Even if this evaluation is subconscious, you _must_ be able to order two alternatives to be able to use it to make a judgement.
> 
> ...


 
And I think you're letting your love of stats and the fact that cricket lends it self so well to them, to obscure the fact that it is only one tool available to the selectors.  A useful tool, but also fallable like every other tool.

Cook would have been left at home, Bresnan wouldnt have played.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Even ignoring the kind of advanced statistics I am talking about, this kind of thing is easily addressed by concentrating on test performances rather than county performances.


 
After he's failed?  Brilliant!

I think even the most numerically challenged person could figure that Hick struggled at Test level.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> After he's failed?  Brilliant!


To be fair, not even the most brilliant selector with all his intuition could have known Ramprakash would fail before playing him in a test or two.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> To be fair, not even the most brilliant selector with all his intuition could have known Ramprakash would fail before playing him in a test or two.


 
And stats would say he's a failure after a Test or two?


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Cook would have been left at home, Bresnan wouldnt have played.


Then why did the selectors play them?  What criteria did they use to pick them?  And what is the inherent reason why those exact same criteria couldn't be built into an algorithm?


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> And stats would say he's a failure after a Test or two?


 
Did the selectors, with all their intuition, only play him for a test or two?

The point is that the same data is being used either way.  Statistically or intuitively, you can only get an idea for how somebody performs in tests by playing him in tests.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Then why did the selectors play them?  What criteria did they use to pick them?  And what is the inherent reason why those exact same criteria couldn't be built into an algorithm?


 
I doubt Flower could articulate them, let alone quantify them.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> The human is the greatest inference engine going.  Any analysis can only answer the questions it's constructed to answer.
> 
> We might one day mimic human comprehension artificially, but do not hold your breath.


 The problem I am addressing isn't even near the same order of magnitude of difficulty of mimicking human comprehension.

Anyway, human beings are demonstrably terrible at intuiting probabilistic events and correlations.  There are any number of experiments that show this very fact.  That's precisely why it's useful to gather decent, bias-free data.  The whole of science is built around recognising this!


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> I doubt Flower could articulate them, let alone quantify them.


 
That's why it's hard.

Hard doesn't mean "impossible" though, although it might mean "beyond our ability".  I don't think it is beyond our ability in this specific instance, however.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> After he's failed?  Brilliant!
> 
> I think even the most numerically challenged person could figure that Hick struggled at Test level.


 
Flat track bully who couldn't handle the short stuff. A different problem from Ramprakash. Hick actually had a poor technique, it was just that only the very best bowlers could expose it.


----------



## strung out (Jan 11, 2011)

in the 90s mike smith was consistently one of, if not the best english bowler in the country, yet he only played one test. clearly the selectors didn't like the look of him, despite his outstanding figures. i'm still trying to figure out what it was that the panel couldn't see in him, because the stats suggest he should have been a top bowler for england in england.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Did the selectors, with all their intuition, only play him for a test or two?
> 
> The point is that the same data is being used either way.  Statistically or intuitively, you can only get an idea for how somebody performs in tests by playing him in tests.


 
As I've said before, the selectors were going by stats - which is why they dropped people left, right and centre and made the atmosphere so horrendous, because they had absolutely no intuition who they thought their best players were!

This is exactly what people like Fletcher and Flower do - they make a decision based upon the best evidence, be that stats, their judgement, the opinion of the players' county coaches, whatever.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

He wasn't very quick. (Smith)

I agree btw, that Ramps would have succeeded in today's set up. I'm sure he knows that himself too – I wonder if he wakes up in the night and ponders what could have been.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

Don't take this the wrong way Kabbes, but do you play cricket?  If so at what level?


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> That's why it's hard.
> 
> Hard doesn't mean "impossible" though, although it might mean "beyond our ability".  I don't think it is beyond our ability in this specific instance, however.


 
It is at present a thousand million miles beyond our ability.  We might get there, we're nowhere near.

Without wishing to make an appeal to authority, my PhD was on this.


----------



## strung out (Jan 11, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> He wasn't very quick. (Smith)


 
yes, he was a swing bowler, and he still had the best figures of pretty much any english bowler in the 90s


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Don't take this the wrong way Kabbes, but do you play cricket?  If so at what level?


 
I played it at club level until I was about 16.  I haven't played it since.

By asking that question, you reveal that you haven't understood the conversation, though.  Don't take this the wrong way, but have you studied statistics?  If so, at what level?


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> Without wishing to make an appeal to authority, my PhD was on this.


 
Your PhD was on 'Why England can't play Cricket, 1990-2000'?


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> It is at present a thousand million miles beyond our ability.  We might get there, we're nowhere near.
> 
> Without wishing to make an appeal to authority, my PhD was on this.


 
Your PhD sounds interesting, genuinely.

However, my job is also on this.  Or, at least, it's about trying to make explicit the factors that individuals use to project success or failure and build them into stochastic models so that we can use those models to examine the impacts of different strategic directions.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I played it at club level until I was about 16.  I haven't played it since.
> 
> By asking that question, you reveal that you haven't understood the conversation, though.  Don't take this the wrong way, but have you studied statistics?  If so, at what level?


 
Beyond A-level maths no, I have not studied stats.  You seem to be making an assumption on an alterior motive.  I've only misunderstood the conversation in so far as your assumption on why I asked the question.

I was generally intrested in your background, which is why I was careful to put in the disclaimer.  I had this image of a swashbuckling batsman with a Grey Nicholls in one had and a calculator in the other.


----------



## embree (Jan 11, 2011)

strung out said:


> in the 90s mike smith was consistently one of, if not the best english bowler in the country, yet he only played one test. clearly the selectors didn't like the look of him, despite his outstanding figures. i'm still trying to figure out what it was that the panel couldn't see in him, because the stats suggest he should have been a top bowler for england in england.


 
Thorpe put Matty Elliott down off his bowling at Headingley. And that was that.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 11, 2011)

embree said:


> Thorpe put Matty Elliott down off his bowling at Headingley. And that was that.


 
Also its Gloucester / Gloucestershire thing, they never get picked for England, ask any native of Kingsholm.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 11, 2011)

strung out said:


> yes, he was a swing bowler, and he still had the best figures of pretty much any english bowler in the 90s


 
I'm guessing the judgement is that someone at 79-80 mph won't get the very best batsmen out even if it's swinging, but may get lesser batsmen out – the bowling equivalent of the flat-track bully. There is evidence to the contrary – namely the success of Mohammad Asif, but he has a truly extraordinary ability to swing the ball.

Oh, and he played for Gloucs. 

Not an entirely facetious point – Chris Broad moved from Gloucs precisely because he thought he wouldn't be selected for England if he didn't.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> I was generally intrested in your background, which is why I was careful to put in the disclaimer.  I had this image of a swashbuckling batsman with a Grey Nicholls in one had and a calculator in the other.


 
Oh gods, no.  My batting at number 11 generally consisted of something along the lines of:

dot, dot, accidentally edge past slip to 4, out.

I was a fast bowler.  Opening bowler and pretty good, if I say so myself (which I do).  I used to have a particularly good Yorker, something 14 year-olds used to find bloody hard to deal with.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Your PhD was on 'Why England can't play Cricket, 1990-2000'?


 
On trying to address real-world problems using collected data, and how engineers could rapidly identify problem areas and the key aggravating factors.  The outcome was that it did spot problem areas, but failed completely at identifying aggravating factors- simply due to the sheer volume of potential aggravating factors.

Much like what I'm saying here.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Your PhD sounds interesting, genuinely.
> 
> However, my job is also on this.  Or, at least, it's about trying to make explicit the factors that individuals use to project success or failure and build them into stochastic models so that we can use those models to examine the impacts of different strategic directions.


 
And when you can't quantify everything....?


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> On trying to address real-world problems using collected data, and how engineers could rapidly identify problem areas and the key aggravating factors.  The outcome was that it did spot problem areas, but failed completely at identifying aggravating factors- simply due to the sheer volume of potential aggravating factors.
> 
> Much like what I'm saying here.


 
Engineering has feedback problems that lead to chaotic outcomes.  I'm not convinced that cricket suffers from the same problem.  In fact, at the aggregate level, cricket seems enviably predictable.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> And when you can't quantify everything....?


 
Heroic leaps of faith.

I didn't say I always got the _right answer_.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Engineering has feedback problems that lead to chaotic outcomes.  I'm not convinced that cricket suffers from the same problem.  In fact, at the aggregate level, cricket seems enviably predictable.


 

Id' say the opposite.  The laws of physics stay pretty constant.  Throw a person in the loop......

Interestingly the Japanese have produced a number of relatively simple approaches to improving manufacture, of which perhaps the easiest to implement is the delightfully monikored poke yoke.  Apparently it translates as 'idiot-proofing.'


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Should a batting line-up be picked in the same way as a bowling attack, i.e. to fulfill different roles? Or do you just pick your best batsmen?


the former, deffo. The strategic element is what makes cricket so wonderful


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> The laws of physics stay pretty constant.


Yes.  They consistently and predictably create feedback issues that lead to chaotic outcomes.

Nothing is going on in the weather, for example, that isn't dictated by the laws of physics.  But predicting it is a bitch.  Give me cricket any day of the week!


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Yes.  They consistently and predictably create feedback issues that lead to chaotic outcomes.
> 
> Nothing is going on in the weather, for example, that isn't dictated by the laws of physics.  But predicting it is a bitch.  Give me cricket any day of the week!



Without wishing to labour the point, I'm not sure what you mean by a feedback issue.

Anyway, yes, predicting weather is a bitch because of its complexity.  And yet, somehow, some animals can predict storms.  But, like cricket coaches, they've yet to articulate _how_.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Animals can't predict storms.  That's a fallacy.  They just take certain actions when certain, straightforward conditions are met.  Those conditions are correlated with storms, so that if a storm happens, there is a good chance that the action will precede it.  However, mostly they will take the same action and there will be no storm.

Which is all a rather marvellous analogy for acting under a set of apparently opaque but actually explicable and identifiable criteria.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Also: surely if you studied systems, you must have come across the concept of feedback?


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Also: surely if you studied systems, you must have come across the concept of feedback?


 
Yes.  It's what you mean by it in this sense that I struggle with.

We'd just refer to it as a Complex System (now a proper noun, presumably as someone wanted a fancy name for the funding bodies), where its overall behaviour is not readily generalisable from the behaviour of individual components.

This is actually quite apt, as a game of cricket is a Complex System - we like to think we understand how the components work and fit together, but we've very little idea.  And, if we go deep enough down to the individual's behaviour, the problem starts to become recursive.

(Apologies if me and kabbes are boring the tits off the rest of you, but it's rare Complex Systems are in any way interesting or associated with interesting things.)


----------



## Idaho (Jan 11, 2011)

Santino said:


> Should a batting line-up be picked in the same way as a bowling attack, i.e. to fulfill different roles? Or do you just pick your best batsmen?


 
Start with the list of the best ones and work from there.


----------



## fen_boy (Jan 11, 2011)

How many statisticians does it take to change a light bulb?


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Animals can't predict storms.  That's a fallacy.  They just take certain actions when certain, straightforward conditions are met.  Those conditions are correlated with storms, so that if a storm happens, there is a good chance that the action will precede it.  However, mostly they will take the same action and there will be no storm.
> 
> Which is all a rather marvellous analogy for acting under a set of apparently opaque but actually explicable and identifiable criteria.


 
So, they can, but with false positives (although 'anticipate' is perhaps better term than 'predict')

As for using simple measures, of course, I wasn't implying they rely upon black magic or pagan gods.

What should be clear is that they've learnt something which humans could pick up on well before they could articulate it, which was again well before they could quantify whatever these signals are.  Just so I'm clear, what I'm arguing is that coaches are attuned to certain things that don't make their way into cricket scorecards.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

I guess that I'm arguing that it's a cop out for coaches to simply say that it's intuition.  If they are good at identifying good players, they at least owe it to themselves to figure out _why_ they are good at identifying good players.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I guess that I'm arguing that it's a cop out for coaches to simply say that it's intuition.  If they are good at identifying good players, they at least owe it to themselves to figure out _why_ they are good at identifying good players.


 
Because they cannot articulate or quantify it - if you could, you'd be pretty rich.

Can you honestly say, in quantifiable terms, why it is that you chose to marry your wife, why you thought her above all others was the one you'd go through life with?  It's at some level deterministic, but I don't think you'd have much luck expressing it.  Although I'd expect there to be a sub-routine called 'big tits'.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

I can certainly identify the factors that lead me to think she's the best person on earth.  Can't you?


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

Can't you about your own wife, I mean.  Not about my wife.  I hope.


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I can certainly identify the factors that lead me to think she's the best person on earth.  Can't you?


 
And those factors are unique to her?


----------



## mattie (Jan 11, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Can't you about your own wife, I mean.  Not about my wife.  I hope.


 
Nope.  I couldn't even begin.  I do know she's awesome, I don't know how.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 11, 2011)

mattie said:


> And those factors are unique to her?


 
"Unique" is a very strong word.  I doubt any factors are unique to anybody.  In combination, they are unique to her _of the people I know_.

This formed the basis of my groom's speech, by the way, so articulating them isn't just an academic exercise!


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 11, 2011)

embree said:


> more than that - non WA batsmen have been struggling at Perth for a long time.


True, and it is, in effect, the home ground of Johnson and Hussey


----------



## embree (Jan 11, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> True, and itm is, in effect, the home ground of Johnson and Hussey


 
Gilchrist's whirlwind century at Perth - WA batsman

They have a phrase there: 'Eastern States shots'. Basically, the way you need to play there is very different even from the other Aussie grounds


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 11, 2011)

behold folks, what happens when you let a stats nerd (i.e. kabbes) loose on a cricket thread! 
Embree-i can buy that about Perth, totally.


----------



## Santino (Jan 11, 2011)

Remember when Australia were all out for 98 lol?


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 12, 2011)

Santino said:


> Remember when Australia were all out for 98 lol?


 
lol


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 12, 2011)

Are we having a new thread for the 20/20 and one dayers, they're not technically the ashes?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 12, 2011)

Dunno - nice to see Watson fail to get a 50 in this format too though!


----------



## embree (Jan 12, 2011)

Would rather have a different thread so we can keep this one for discussing proper cricket rather than this... this... shit


----------



## Idaho (Jan 12, 2011)

Seeing as the tests have finished, I don't see the problem with using the thread for the short games. It's like we've had all our main presents and now we are just messing about with the stocking fillers.


----------



## Santino (Jan 12, 2011)

Yeah. You only really need one cricket thread at a time. We can have a World Cup one later in the year, and then perhaps a general summer of 2011 thread after that.


----------



## embree (Jan 12, 2011)

Can we change the name to 'The Ashes & the inconsequential hit and giggle bits tacked on afterwards 2010/11' then?


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 12, 2011)

The crowd can catch 'em 

(Must have been an englishman says nasser)


----------



## Idaho (Jan 12, 2011)

We are getting runs, and they are getting wickets. We could probably still win if both continue at the same rate.


----------



## yardbird (Jan 12, 2011)

Ouch! so much for my namesake


----------



## mattie (Jan 12, 2011)

Tight finish.

But we're making Watson look like McGrath.


----------



## Santino (Jan 12, 2011)

mattie said:


> But we're making Watson look like McGrath.



Playing the long game there.


----------



## mattie (Jan 12, 2011)

1 needed with 1 ball left.  Super over or whatever the hell it is seems most likely


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 12, 2011)

Never panicked. World champions don't.


----------



## mattie (Jan 12, 2011)

Shut my mouth


----------



## kabbes (Jan 12, 2011)

That was quite close.

If I cared about 20/twenty then I would have been quite interested.


----------



## yardbird (Jan 12, 2011)

That was a fun match


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 12, 2011)

I'm all cricketed out. Never did like 2020 much anyway-not in  the true spirit, etc....


----------



## JimW (Jan 12, 2011)

Skin of the teeth


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 12, 2011)

Doesn't get much closer!


----------



## Santino (Jan 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> That was quite close.
> 
> If I cared about 20/twenty then I would have been quite interested.


 
Would it help if you thought of it as a separate sport that utilises some of the same skills as cricket?


----------



## kabbes (Jan 12, 2011)

Santino said:


> Would it help if you thought of it as a separate sport that utilises some of the same skills as cricket?


 
That is exactly how I think of it.  And, as its own sport, I find it OK but a bit insipid.  Worth watching if it's on, but I wouldn't bother putting the telly on for it.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 12, 2011)

It's a more accessable version of the game. It's quite different in both skills required and tactics.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 12, 2011)

Well that was a close run thing, england made hard work of that.  Our seam attack looks a bit inexperienced without Anderson, Broad or Sidebottom.

I think we may struggle a bit in the one day matches.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 12, 2011)

Santino said:


> Would it help if you thought of it as a separate sport that utilises some of the same skills as cricket?


I think that's what _I _will have to do, to learn to love this tacky bastardisation of a beautiful game


----------



## Idaho (Jan 12, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> I think that's what _I _will have to do, to learn to love this tacky bastardisation of a beautiful game


 
It does have it's own subtlties as it goes. It requires a very different bowling style. In many ways it's more a bowlers game in terms of technique. Batting generally consists of hoofing it.


----------



## Santino (Jan 12, 2011)

Yes, the fact that bowlers have adapted well to it makes it worth a look. If it was just a game of 'who can hit the most boundaries without chipping the ball to a fielder?' it would not even be related to cricket.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 12, 2011)

Do you reckon after T20 has become the norm, people will be attempting slow bouncers in test matches?


----------



## embree (Jan 12, 2011)

*insert gag about shit Australian bowling here*


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 12, 2011)

They did well to avoid an innings defeat today. Acorns and all that.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 12, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> They did well to avoid an innings defeat today. Acorns and all that.





And to be fair their score of 157 certianly represents and improvement on some of their recent efforts.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jan 12, 2011)

Just seen highlights of the 20/20 game, amazing stuff.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 13, 2011)

Santino said:


> Yes, the fact that bowlers have adapted well to it makes it worth a look. If it was just a game of 'who can hit the most boundaries without chipping the ball to a fielder?' it would not even be related to cricket.


OK, I get your point here, and I must admit, I found the highlkights pretty exciting. still not 'proper cricket', but...


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 13, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> OK, I get ytour point here, and I must admit, I found the highlkights pretty exciting. still not 'proper cricket', but...



And surely an hour of highlights of a T20 are more representative of the game than an hour of highlights for a Test, so you must have a better feel of the T20 than the Tests after that? Any game with Morgan batting is worth a watch..


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 13, 2011)

I used to hate 20/20. It's allright now - as noted above, the bowling has changed it. It's no longer all graceless slog.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 13, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> And surely an hour of highlights of a T20 are more representative of the game than an hour of highlights for a Test, so you must have a better feel of the T20 than the Tests after that? Any game with Morgan batting is worth a watch..


 
Perhaps not. Dot balls and (near) maidens are crucial in T20. The batsmen are under immense pressure to get boundaries and get lots of them. Clever bowlers can keep them guessing and get them to mistime. I think Yardy is a very interesting T20 bowler. He would be a total disaster in the long form, but his pace and line variations, combined with his ability to keep the ball low, really throttle the batsmen.

That Tait - his action really does make Johnson look polished by comparison.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

In summary: in T20, bowling is defence and batting is attack.  In total contrast to proper cricket.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> In summary: in T20, bowling is defence and batting is attack.  In total contrast to proper cricket.


I've never quite grasped this, because while I understand that the batters are 'defending' their wicket, if they don't score any runs they don't win, so surely they also need to 'attack'


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> In summary: in T20, bowling is defence and batting is attack.  In total contrast to proper cricket.



Any game, depends on the pitch, one of the Zim T20 semi finals was won by 1 wicket (after 18.3 overs) chasing a target of 71 after the side batting first made 70 off 19.2 overs..


----------



## mattie (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> In summary: in T20, bowling is defence and batting is attack.  In total contrast to proper cricket.


 
I'm all for it - much as 5-a-side football or 7s rugby ask different questions of the participants, they're still a subsidiary of the longer game.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

Lord Camomile said:


> I've never quite grasped this, because while I understand that the batters are 'defending' their wicket, if they don't score any runs they don't win, so surely they also need to 'attack'


 
In proper cricket, you win by bowling the other team out twice.  If you don't manage that, you don't win.  Runs scored only become important if you manage it.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

mattie said:


> I'm all for it - much as 5-a-side football or 7s rugby ask different questions of the participants, they're still a subsidiary of the longer game.


 
I wouldn't pay to go to a 5-a-side football match either.


----------



## mattie (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> In proper cricket, you win by bowling the other team out twice.  If you don't manage that, you don't win.  Runs scored only become important if you manage it.


 
Fine -the bowling challenge is predominantly to stifle scoring, not predominantly to take wickets, but they're just different challenges.

Taking wickets is also a good way of applying pressure in Twenty20, the England/Oz game should be a clear indicator of that.


----------



## mattie (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I wouldn't pay to go to a 5-a-side football match either.


 
Even if an 11-a-side game took a full working day?

My post was more to illustrate that other sports recognise that short-form versions have particular benefit, even if they don't fully mirror the full-blown sport.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

mattie said:


> Fine -the bowling challenge is predominantly to stifle scoring.


Hence defence.

In proper cricket, the batting challenge is predominantly to not give your wicket away, hence defence.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

mattie said:


> Even if an 11-a-side game took a full working day?


 
It doesn't, though.  It takes just the right amount of time to ensure the game is exciting and interesting.  Just like a test match.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> In proper cricket, you win by bowling the other team out twice.  If you don't manage that, you don't win.  Runs scored only become important if you manage it.


So say no team scores any runs, but the opening team takes 20 wickets then the other team fail to bowl them out in the final innings - doesn't that just result in a draw?

Can you win without scoring any runs?


----------



## mattie (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> It doesn't, though.  It takes just the right amount of time to ensure the game is exciting and interesting.  Just like a test match.


 
It generally does.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 13, 2011)

Lord Camomile said:


> So say no team scores any runs, but the opening team takes 20 wickets then the other team fail to bowl them out in the final innings - doesn't that just result in a draw?
> 
> Can you win without scoring any runs?


 
Australia just tried that. Didn't work.


----------



## mattie (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Hence defence.
> 
> In proper cricket, the batting challenge is predominantly to not give your wicket away, hence defence.


 
The point of Test cricket is that you have to react to match conditions.  Stifling scoring rates to apply pressure, to defend a low score, whilst waiting for a new ball, to tempt a batsman, etc etc are all part of it.  It's these bits that Twenty20 emphasise, and it omits other parts.  Much like 7s rugby has no scrum worth the name, and has only a subset of the skillset and subtlety of the full-blown game.

The idea that every batting session is Boycottesque is simply not correct - not that you're using that precise argument, but that seems to be the gist.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

No, I wasn't saying anything about the manner of the batting.  Merely pointing out that ultimately the test game is about taking wickets to win.  It's what distinguishes it from the short game, where you do not have to take wickets to win.  This has totally nerfed the value of the attack bowler in the short game (albeit that they have found other niches instead).  It, literally, just isn't cricket.

The reason I am apparently so petty about this is because _this is what I enjoy about cricket_, this overwhelming importance of bowling a team out and importance of the strategic value of _time_ in this equation.  By reverting to a short form, you are essentially removing the thing I love most.  To me, it becomes dull and insipid, just a succession of slogs.


----------



## mattie (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> No, I wasn't saying anything about the manner of the batting.  Merely pointing out that ultimately the test game is about taking wickets to win.  It's what distinguishes it from the short game, where you do not have to take wickets to win.  This has totally nerfed the value of the attack bowler in the short game (albeit that they have found other niches instead).  It, literally, just isn't cricket.
> 
> The reason I am apparently so petty about this is because _this is what I enjoy about cricket_, this overwhelming importance of bowling a team out and importance of the strategic value of _time_ in this equation.  By reverting to a short form, you are essentially removing the thing I love most.  To me, it becomes dull and insipid, just a succession of slogs.


 
For time, think of resources.  Wickets and overs are important, and it's the on-the-fly calculation of how to manage them (think Bevan etc) that is of interest.  It's not happy-clappy, smack-every-ball.  It's make damn sure you hit the bad ones, and plan your innings to attack the weaker bowlers (or bowlers you find easier to play).

As above, it's just different challenges, and if you view cricket as solely being about the challenge of preserving your wicket regardless, you have a very different interpretation of cricket to me.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> In proper cricket, you win by bowling the other team out twice.  If you don't manage that, you don't win.  Runs scored only become important if you manage it.
> 
> In summary: in T20, bowling is defence and batting is attack.  In total contrast to proper cricket.


 
? Test Cricket is primarily about runs. If you have more runs, you generally win - with the exception of team losing on runs, holding out for a draw. 

Yesterday I saw Australia almost win by taking 10 wickets. Not quite sure where that fits into your analysis. Wickets are crucial for breaking up momentum in T20.


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## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

I didn't say it was about preserving your wicket.  I said it was about taking other peoples' wickets.

The finest ever sight in test cricket was over after over of Shane Warne coming in at terrified batsmen, fielders clustered around the bat, scoreboard barely ticking over.  It created an excitement that the bastardised form will never share.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

Idaho said:


> ? Test Cricket is primarily about runs. If you have more runs, you generally win - with the exception of team losing on runs, holding out for a draw.


That's a pretty bloody big exception.

If it were primarily about runs, you wouldn't be seeing so many declarations.  Fundamentally, you take 20 wickets or you don't win.  End of story. 



> Yesterday I saw Australia almost win by taking 10 wickets. Not quite sure where that fits into your analysis. Wickets are crucial for breaking up momentum in T20.


They didn't bowl England out, though, no matter how close it was.  England won.  And did so by scoring a bucket load in the last two overs, despite having so many wickets down.  It's pretty bloody rare to get bowled out in 20 overs -- rare enough not really to have to worry about it.


----------



## mattie (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I didn't say it was about preserving your wicket.  I said it was about taking other peoples' wickets.
> 
> The finest ever sight in test cricket was over after over of Shane Warne coming in at terrified batsmen, fielders clustered around the bat, scoreboard barely ticking over.  It created an excitement that the bastardised form will never share.


 
So I assume you've no time for Lara, Richards etc etc dismantling a bowling attack?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

I have to say that I don't mind 2020 too much. It's enjoyable enough, if instantly forgettable. 

But, the biggest problem I have with limited overs cricket is the way that it elevates the dot ball to an end in itself. That's what kabbes is getting at, I think - that a dot ball is a success for the bowler in a way that it isn't in test cricket, and as such the bowling in one-dayers is essentially defensive in nature.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

mattie said:


> So I assume you've no time for Lara, Richards etc etc dismantling a bowling attack?


 
You know what they say about assumptions.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I have to say that I don't mind 2020 too much. It's enjoyable enough, if instantly forgettable.
> 
> But, the biggest problem I have with limited overs cricket is the way that it elevates the dot ball to an end in itself. That's what kabbes is getting at, I think - that a dot ball is a success for the bowler in a way that it isn't in test cricket, and as such the bowling in one-dayers is essentially defensive in nature.


 
Yes, this is what I am saying.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 13, 2011)

If by defensive you mean clever, thoughtful, part of a plan, aware of the wider game then yes.


----------



## Santino (Jan 13, 2011)

A _succession_ of dot balls is very useful in Test cricket. England out-bowled (and bowled out) Australia during the Ashes by being exceptionally parsimonious with the older ball. The batsmen needed runs and threw away their wickets looking for them.


----------



## Santino (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> You know what they say about assumptions.


 
Do they make U and ME look like brilliant chaps?


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

On batting in test cricket:

You generally score about 100 runs per session.  It's rare that it is outside of the 80-120 run range.  IF you have a batsman that can break this consistently over several sessions THEN you have managed to turn defence into attack and create something awe-inspiring.  That's bloody brilliant.  

It's also rare, for the same reason that a truly excellent counter-attacking football team is rare.  Brilliant, but rare.  Judging all defence on the basis of the rare counter-attacking counter-example is no way to judge a game.  Most defence in football is about killing the opposition strike force and most defence in cricket is about scoring 80-120 per session.

Given the consistency of test scoring, it becomes a matter of staying in for long enough to rack up the runs.  It's up to the bowling team to get them out before they can manage it.  Of COURSE you need to keep up this scoring rate, so scoring is important.  But that's like saying that a football defence needs to be able to pass it to the midfield -- it's necessary but it will happen anyway so long as they do their fundamental job.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

Also, if you enjoy the short game then great, good luck to you.  But I'm explaining why I don't get much from it and, in all likelihood, never will.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

Santino said:


> A _succession_ of dot balls is very useful in Test cricket. England out-bowled (and bowled out) Australia during the Ashes by being exceptionally parsimonious with the older ball. The batsmen needed runs and threw away their wickets looking for them.


 
In test cricket, a dot ball is a means to an end. In one-dayers, it is an end in itself. A dot ball can also be a success for the batsman in test cricket, depending on the circumstances.

Also, in test cricket, a wicket is an end in itself – you can't win without taking 20 of them – whereas in one-dayers, a wicket is merely a means to an end, a way of slowing the scoring down.

And... for me the biggest weakness of one-dayers is the page after page of restrictions and regulations imposed on the fielding team, telling them who can bowl, what fields they can set, etc. As a general rule, the more rules a sport needs, the worse it is, imo. If it needs all these rules, it's not a very well conceived contest.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 13, 2011)

paulhackett66 said:


> And surely an hour of highlights of a T20 are more representative of the game than an hour of highlights for a Test, so you must have a better feel of the T20 than the Tests after that?


whoa easy there, I need to warm myself to it _slowly_!
leaving aside whether an hour's tv review of a T20 game can ever be called 'highlights', I'd say the two have equal worth and value; they are 2 tactically different variants of the game which consequently place 
emphasis on different facets and skills


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## gabi (Jan 13, 2011)

So. based on everything that's happened over the last few months, Shane Watson is the only world-class player left in this aussie side. Depressing stuff, from their point of view. I seriously think if NZ played em at the mo they'd win.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

Steady!

NZ's best quick bowler is _Chris Martin_, ffs.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Steady!
> 
> NZ's best quick bowler is _Chris Martin_, ffs.


 
And that's only when he gets time away from singing with Coldplay.


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 13, 2011)

Don't! Oh you did. Oh dear.


----------



## gabi (Jan 13, 2011)

NZ pushed India harder in India than the ockers


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

They did surprisingly well in India yes, before losing of course. But their bowling is thin and their batting is fragile. When Vettori doesn't deliver in both areas, they struggle.


----------



## gabi (Jan 13, 2011)

Tim Southee's our best bowler anyway, for the record  lotta potential there. anyway. derail.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

gabi said:


> Tim Southee's our best bowler anyway, for the record  lotta potential there. anyway. derail.


 
I'll take your word for that. Haven't seen much of him. But I wouldn't give NZ a price against England at the moment.

ETA: technically speaking, this whole 2020 discussion has been a derail.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

Technically speaking, the whole Twenty20 _game_ is a derail.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> That's a pretty bloody big exception.
> 
> If it were primarily about runs, you wouldn't be seeing so many declarations.  Fundamentally, you take 20 wickets or you don't win.  End of story.


 
Taking 20 wickets is a pre-requisite for victory but not the _cause_ of victory.


----------



## Santino (Jan 13, 2011)

Anyone want to talk about women's cricket?


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## Idaho (Jan 13, 2011)

gabi said:


> So. based on everything that's happened over the last few months, Shane Watson is the only world-class player left in this aussie side. Depressing stuff, from their point of view. I seriously think if NZ played em at the mo they'd win.


 
Let's not get ahead of ourselves now...


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

Idaho said:


> Taking 20 wickets is a pre-requisite for victory but not the _cause_ of victory.


 
No -- taking them fast enough is the cause of victory.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

Taking 20 wickets is a massive part of the cause of victory. In test cricket, the team with the better bowlers usually wins.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 13, 2011)

It's a slightly backwards way of looking at it. The losing team _can't_ get 20 wickets. The game will always stop before they do.


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## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

Idaho said:


> It's a slightly backwards way of looking at it. The losing team _can't_ get 20 wickets. The game will always stop before they do.


 
yes they can.


----------



## Santino (Jan 13, 2011)

You can take twenty wickets and still lose.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

England, Perth, 2010, for example.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 13, 2011)

I can't think how.. go on enlighten me.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 13, 2011)

Oh right... I got you.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 13, 2011)

Santino said:


> You can take twenty wickets and still lose.


 
So it is about runs....


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

All cricket is a contest between bat and ball. Effectively, in test cricket the batsmen have 20 wickets with which to score their runs; in one-dayers they have X overs or 10 wickets in which to score their runs. Hence the switch in emphasis for the bowlers from taking wickets to containment, and the paradoxical effect of turning the shorter game into one that is defensive in nature, with defensive fields and defensive bowling.

Depends on your temperament, I suppose. Do you want to see batsmen flailing around trying to score in a hurry, or bowlers steaming in trying to take wickets. Me, I prefer the latter.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 13, 2011)

Idaho said:


> So it is about runs....


 
As I said...



kabbes said:


> On batting in test cricket:
> 
> You generally score about 100 runs per session.  It's rare that it is outside of the 80-120 run range.  IF you have a batsman that can break this consistently over several sessions THEN you have managed to turn defence into attack and create something awe-inspiring.  That's bloody brilliant.
> 
> ...


----------



## strung out (Jan 13, 2011)

Idaho said:


> So it is about runs....


 
no, you can score 100 runs and still either win or lose. you have to take 20 wickets to be in with a chance of winning though (except in very very rare circumstances)


----------



## Santino (Jan 13, 2011)

Catches win matches. Just field eleven wicket-keepers..


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

Test cricket is the simpler game, as can be seen from the stats. In tests, your average is the primary indicator of your value to the team. In one-dayers, you have to somehow combine the average with the economy/strike rate. In 2020, a bowler's average is very much a secondary stat compared to economy rate.

ooo, the _slow bouncer_. Whoopee fucking do.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Also, if you enjoy the short game then great, good luck to you.  But I'm explaining why I don't get much from it and, in all likelihood, never will.


same goes roughly for me, I'm coming round to it, but it's all uphill. A part of me feels it's just _wrong_


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 13, 2011)

gabi said:


> So. based on everything that's happened over the last few months, Shane Watson is the only world-class player left in this aussie side. Depressing stuff, from their point of view. I seriously think if NZ played em at the mo they'd win.


I wouldn't even describe watson as 'world class'


----------



## gabi (Jan 13, 2011)

I would. He pretty much singlehandedly took you apart yesterday. A small bit of assistance by one or two of his team-mates and it was game over.


----------



## Idaho (Jan 13, 2011)

gabi said:


> I would. He pretty much singlehandedly took you apart yesterday. A small bit of assistance by one or two of his team-mates and it was game over.


 
Other than the Swann over, he was scoring fairly slowly.


----------



## embree (Jan 13, 2011)

gabi said:


> So. based on everything that's happened over the last few months, Shane Watson is the only world-class player left in this aussie side. Depressing stuff, from their point of view. I seriously think if NZ played em at the mo they'd win.


 
You misspelled Mike Hussey


----------



## embree (Jan 13, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> ooo, the _slow bouncer_. Whoopee fucking do.


 
It's just a glorified long hop really 

Anyway, the thing I enjoyed most about the 20/20 yesterday was watching Ian Bell. Proper batting done with greater urgency. Marvellous to see and no cross batted slogs, baseball shots or scoops to be seen


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 13, 2011)

gabi said:


> I would. He pretty much singlehandedly took you apart yesterday. A small bit of assistance by one or two of his team-mates and it was game over.


No batsman can truly be called 'world class' when he only has one test century to his name


----------



## butchersapron (Jan 13, 2011)

gabi said:


> I would. He pretty much singlehandedly took you apart yesterday. A small bit of assistance by one or two of his team-mates and it was game over.


 
Game over.


----------



## mattie (Jan 13, 2011)

embree said:


> Anyway, the thing I enjoyed most about the 20/20 yesterday was watching Ian Bell. Proper batting done with greater urgency. Marvellous to see and no cross batted slogs, baseball shots or scoops to be seen


 
Yep, just immaculate timing.

He's fantastic to watch in all forms of the game.


----------



## embree (Jan 13, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> No batsman can truly be called 'world class' when he only has one test century to his name


 
Two innit?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

Same number as Phil Hughes. 

Formidable pair.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 13, 2011)

Shane Watson is a decent cricketer, not sure what the phrase world class actually means but he wouldnt get in a world 11, Kallis is in a different class.

He's a decent batsman and an ok bowler, a very handy limited overs player and probably a decent number 6 in tests.  He is not an opener and the fact he is the best the aussies have at the moment just shows their complete lack of talent.

He is also an utter moran when it comes to running between the wicket.


----------



## strung out (Jan 13, 2011)

for all his faults, shane watson is actually my favourite aussie player. good lad and has a sense of humour and humility.


----------



## gabi (Jan 13, 2011)

He's the only aussie player who'd challenge for a place in the English lineup - who are currently No.1 in the world according to my own personal rankings. The official rankings are fucking nonsensical.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

England might possibly be the best team in the world at the moment, but such is the pace of the test schedule, that doesn't necessarily mean they should be number 1. This summer's series against Sri Lanka and India should tell us a lot. Beat those two, and I'll say they deserve the number one spot.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 13, 2011)

gabi said:


> He's the only aussie player who'd challenge for a place in the English lineup


 
Yeah I'd go along with that.  Now that Colly has retired he'd probably get a go at number 6, he'd then be promptly dropped after running out everyone else.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 13, 2011)

strung out said:


> for all his faults, shane watson is actually my favourite aussie player. good lad and has a sense of humour and humility.


 
Brett Lee every time, and as he's still playing limited overs he still an aussie player.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

Yes, I like Brett Lee too.


----------



## gabi (Jan 13, 2011)

Brett Lee's the only aussie player with a top 10 hit in india with Asha Bhoseley so for that alone he's my number one


----------



## strung out (Jan 13, 2011)

what's so good about brett lee? i'm talking personalities btw.


----------



## gabi (Jan 13, 2011)

strung out said:


> what's so good about brett lee? i'm talking personalities btw.


 
this...

stunning


----------



## mattie (Jan 13, 2011)

strung out said:


> what's so good about brett lee? i'm talking personalities btw.


 
Hacks and beams batsmen and has a good old chuckle about it.

(that's a touch unfair, he seems a pretty amiable sort)


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 13, 2011)

strung out said:


> what's so good about brett lee? i'm talking personalities btw.


 
Plays the game with a big smile on his face and interviews very well, always has a joke with players and the crowd. 

Does anyone remember the warm up match before the last ashes (England A maybe?) when he was having a joke with the crowd on the boundary and Ponting saw it and lost his rag and brought him straight onto bowl?  If I remember correctly he took a couple of wickets and, as a result of not being given enough time to warm up properly, picked up an injury which kept him out of the bulk of the tests.


----------



## strung out (Jan 13, 2011)

gabi said:


> this...
> 
> stunning




ha, that's pretty great actually


----------



## paulhackett (Jan 13, 2011)

strung out said:


> for all his faults, shane watson is actually my favourite aussie player. good lad and has a sense of humour and humility.



He's a twat


----------



## strung out (Jan 13, 2011)

that was hilarious


----------



## mattie (Jan 13, 2011)

Chris Gayle does come across as a bit of a twat, to be fair.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 13, 2011)

Teaboy said:


> Plays the game with a big smile on his face and interviews very well, always has a joke with players and the crowd.
> 
> Does anyone remember the warm up match before the last ashes (England A maybe?) when he was having a joke with the crowd on the boundary and Ponting saw it and lost his rag and brought him straight onto bowl?  If I remember correctly he took a couple of wickets and, as a result of not being given enough time to warm up properly, picked up an injury which kept him out of the bulk of the tests.



If that was the match at canterbury, I was there. Good bit of back and forth from Lee and the crowd.

Liked him for it I must admit.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jan 13, 2011)

A young man with poster-boy good looks who on his day was able to propel a cricket ball as fast as almost anyone who's ever tried to do so. Played a long, if injury-hit, career in one of the greatest teams ever assembled and is now easing seamlessly on to a second career as a Bollywood movie star.

And yet, for all that, he comes across as someone who is eminently likeable.

Compare and contrast Shoaib Akhtar. What a nob.


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 13, 2011)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Same number as Phil Hughes.
> 
> Formidable pair.


exactly


----------



## Streathamite (Jan 13, 2011)

strung out said:


> for all his faults, shane watson is actually my favourite aussie player. good lad and has a sense of humour and humility.


i like him too, but he's a long, long way behind either the English or Indian openers. He came out of the ashes well simply because him, Hussey and Haddin were the only recognised aussie batsman who didn't have a complete disaster.
e2a: We're also a long way from the point where the sight of shane watson striding out to open the batting (or the bowling) will fill his opponents with foreboding and apprehension


----------



## embree (Jan 13, 2011)

The idea that Twatto would challenge for a place in the England side is utterly fucking laughable


----------



## JimW (Jan 14, 2011)

Bah, turned it on in time to miss the wee collapse and catch Finch's saving knock, though the total's pretty shaky.


----------



## gabi (Jan 14, 2011)

embree said:


> The idea that Twatto would challenge for a place in the England side is utterly fucking laughable


 
To who?


----------



## Idaho (Jan 14, 2011)

It's not laughable - but I don't think it would happen (hyperthetically).


----------



## Santino (Jan 14, 2011)

Johnson's first ball wide past off stump lol


----------



## gabi (Jan 14, 2011)

why is collingwood in this 20/20 side? cant bat, cant bowl.. purely for his 'leadership'?


----------



## Idaho (Jan 14, 2011)

gabi said:


> why is collingwood in this 20/20 side? cant bat, cant bowl.. purely for his 'leadership'?


 
Because he was good once but has become shit?


----------



## Santino (Jan 14, 2011)

gabi said:


> why is collingwood in this 20/20 side? cant bat, cant bowl.. purely for his 'leadership'?


 
His fielding placements earn more runs than most IPL batsmen. The first over in Australia's innings went for 1 run I think, even though the batsmen were striking the ball well.


----------



## mattie (Jan 14, 2011)

Oz commentators beginning to really grate.

As is that mind-numbing tune in the advert the Indian broadcasters show.


----------



## Santino (Jan 14, 2011)

Making a meal of this now.


----------



## JimW (Jan 14, 2011)

It's slipping away.


----------



## Santino (Jan 14, 2011)

My mistake - long-term plan to keep Watson and Johnson in the side. This is where the 2013 Ashes were won.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 14, 2011)

Aussies finally win a game of cricket.

congrats


----------



## kabbes (Jan 14, 2011)

Dan U said:


> Aussies finally win a game of cricket.
> 
> congrats


 
When?  Not today, they haven't.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 14, 2011)

kabbes said:


> When?  Not today, they haven't.





was waiting for that..


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 15, 2011)

they have now. who gives a shit though?


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## twentythreedom (Jan 16, 2011)

i've started a thread for the one-day series, should anyone give a toss... it's here - http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/341679-Eng-v-Aus-ODI-Cricket-Series-2011


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## paulhackett (Mar 1, 2011)

Series dvds are out.. Anderson getting encouragement from Johnson


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## butchersapron (Mar 1, 2011)

Fucking choice


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## butchersapron (Mar 1, 2011)

Note KP offering MJ the ball? Oh what a year.

edit: i think he's asking the ump to have a look actually


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## Santino (Mar 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Note KP offering MJ the ball? Oh what a year.
> 
> edit: i think he's asking the ump to have a look actually


 
The umpire's supposed to get the ball between every wicket, and at frequent intervals to keep an eye out for tampering.


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## butchersapron (Mar 1, 2011)

Never mind that


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## paulhackett (Mar 1, 2011)




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## strung out (Mar 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Never mind that




i've just watched this video five times


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## butchersapron (Mar 1, 2011)

strung out said:


> i've just watched this video five times


 
I've done about 70


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## butchersapron (Mar 1, 2011)

Worst sledging ever


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## Idaho (Mar 2, 2011)

Thats like stumbling across a bottle of fine brandy that you thought you had finished, only to discover there's still a warming dram left in the bottom.


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## strung out (Sep 20, 2019)

embree said:


> See. Weird, clunky, tentative, shit technique gets him out. Absolutely shite.





strung out said:


> steve smith world class?
> hughes?
> north?





Idaho said:


> God knows why Smith is in the team. He's shit.





embree said:


> Smith is just unbelievably shit. That shot was naive beyond description.





mattie said:


> Proving Steve Smith is not a batsman.


I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to go back and read what we were all saying about Smith in his first Ashes series. Good to know we were spot on


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## Casual Observer (Sep 20, 2019)

strung out said:


> I wanted to go back and read what we were all saying about Smith in his first Ashes series. Good to know we were spot on



Urban's premier cricket pundit sat that one out.


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## Idaho (Sep 20, 2019)

strung out said:


> I know this is an old thread, but I wanted to go back and read what we were all saying about Smith in his first Ashes series. Good to know we were spot on


Does this mean Jennings could have been the best in the world of we'd persevered?


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