# T-minus 4 hours to New Who!Doctor  Who! Something about Mars!



## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2009)

*readies projector, unfurls screen, checks on munchies and cider levels*


Man I can't wait. I'm childishly excited.


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## Balbi (Nov 15, 2009)

The waters of mars 

Bring it the fuck on


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## holteman (Nov 15, 2009)




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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm ridiculously excited, did a little jig earlier!


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## Voley (Nov 15, 2009)

Grow up.


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## DexterTCN (Nov 15, 2009)

He was just on Radio One.   Think there may be a surprise at the end!


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2009)

Is the Master going to be coming back this ep? He's deffo putting in an appearance soon, simms is in the IMDB cast list  might be deliberate misdirection though


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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

NVP said:


> Grow up.



I know you are but what am I?? ............... oh....... that doesn't work


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## Voley (Nov 15, 2009)

Twats.


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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> Is the Master going to be coming back this ep? He's deffo putting in an appearance soon, simms is in the IMDB cast list  might be deliberate misdirection though



I might wee I'm so excited by the return of the master!!


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## scifisam (Nov 15, 2009)

Despite myself, I'm quite looking forward to it. 



NVP said:


> Twats.



Yeah, well, you smell of wee.


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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

NVP said:


> Twats.



you're excited..... I can tell.


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## scifisam (Nov 15, 2009)

Insult ruined by pigtails' simulpost.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2009)




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## Voley (Nov 15, 2009)

pigtails said:


> *I might wee* I'm so excited by the return of the master!!





scifisam said:


> Yeah, well, *you smell of wee*.


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## scifisam (Nov 15, 2009)

Clearly, pigtails has done her wee _on_ you.


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## Voley (Nov 15, 2009)




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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Insult ruined by pigtails' simulpost.



*wee* are obviously linked, mentally!

geddit?? geddit??  Do ya??

I make myself laugh!


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## Voley (Nov 15, 2009)




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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

scifisam said:


> Clearly, pigtails has done her wee _on_ you.



he asked me to! Honest!!


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


>









synchronicity


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## Voley (Nov 15, 2009)

I can't carry on with this, sorry.

It must be really difficult being Onket.


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## ChrisFilter (Nov 15, 2009)

Can you watch it if you've never seen a Dr Who before, or do you need a full backstory?


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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

NVP said:


>



you are gonna get eye strain the ammount of rolling you're doing on this thread!
It'll be your own fault, you'll get no sympathy from me


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2009)

It's a special, so it'll be a self contained episode rather than prt of a run. You might not 'get' all of it, but it'll be accessible imeo


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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

NVP said:


> I can't carry on with this, sorry.
> 
> It must be really difficult being Onket.



you're way more  than


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## Voley (Nov 15, 2009)

I know. I've already thrown in the towel.


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## Voley (Nov 15, 2009)

rolleyes


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## nicksonic (Nov 15, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Can you watch it if you've never seen a Dr Who before, or do you need a full backstory?



yes, you don't need the full back story.


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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

NVP said:


> I know. I've already thrown in the towel.



is it the towel that smells of wee??


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## Corax (Nov 15, 2009)

The Raxette's making enchiladas.
The boy's going to bed 5 minutes early so we don't miss any.
Doctor Who.
Last night's Merlin on iPlayer.


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## kyser_soze (Nov 15, 2009)

ChrisFilter said:


> Can you watch it if you've never seen a Dr Who before, or do you need a full backstory?



When you say 'backstory' do you mean 'backstory to this episode' or 'backstory to the whole Timelords of Gallifrey' thing, and if it's the latter, how far into the Darkness Of Geek do you want to go?


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## spring-peeper (Nov 15, 2009)

I truly hate these threads!!!!

Dr Who is my most favourite television show, and new episodes come out and you get all excited.....and I will probably never see them.

 x 1000

Oh well - enjoy!!!  I'm sure it will be most excellent.


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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

kyser_soze said:


> When you say 'backstory' do you mean 'backstory to this episode' or 'backstory to the whole Timelords of Gallifrey' thing, and if it's the latter, how far into the Darkness Of Geek do you want to go?


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2009)

spring-peeper said:


> I truly hate these threads!!!!
> 
> Dr Who is my most favourite television show, and new episodes come out and you get all excited.....and I will probably never see them.
> 
> ...



I believe there is BBC subscription channel one can pay for in the N/am regions.

It'll be shown on that eventually, I'm sure


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## kyser_soze (Nov 15, 2009)

spring-peeper said:


> I truly hate these threads!!!!
> 
> Dr Who is my most favourite television show, and new episodes come out and you get all excited.....and I will probably never see them.
> 
> ...



Download it from eztv.it, it'll be on torrent by about 21:00 GMT I would've thought...

Oh, and for proper _Who_ geeks...Mars, eh? ANyone want to bet there'll be an Osiran invovled somewhere?


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## nicksonic (Nov 15, 2009)

kyser_soze said:


> Oh, and for proper _Who_ geeks...Mars, eh? ANyone want to bet there'll be an Osiran invovled somewhere?



or an ice warrior...


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2009)

kyser_soze said:


> Download it from eztv.it, it'll be on torrent by about 21:00 GMT I would've thought...
> 
> Oh, and for proper _Who_ geeks...Mars, eh? ANyone want to bet there'll be an Osiran invovled somewhere?



ooh I hadn't thought of that. Pyramids of Mars


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## yardbird (Nov 15, 2009)

It's in HD on Freesat


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## Strumpet (Nov 15, 2009)

NVP said:


> I can't carry on with this, sorry.
> It must be really difficult being Onket.






nicksonic said:


> yes, you don't need the full back story.


Good cos I haven't watched Who for ages  but I reallly fancy getting back into it so....here we go


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2009)

When is this on?


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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

OMG it's nearly time for it!!!


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> Good cos I haven't watched Who for ages  but I reallly fancy getting back into it so....here we go



Oh watch the last Torchwood run. It's fucking excellent, unlike most torchwood. And it's all welshy!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2009)

What channel


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2009)

Aw it;s just going to be shit like all the others.


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## TheHoodedClaw (Nov 15, 2009)

BBC1


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## harpo (Nov 15, 2009)

Oh thank god for this thread.  It had quite slipped my mind.  Saw it just in the nick of time!


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## Strumpet (Nov 15, 2009)

BBC1


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## Strumpet (Nov 15, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> Oh watch the last Torchwood run. It's fucking excellent, unlike most torchwood. And it's all welshy!



LOVE Torchwood! I sawed it....unless I've missed another!?


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## 8den (Nov 15, 2009)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> What channel



BBC 1. I'm watching countryfile while I wait. And the towering inferno is on. 

Ohhhh someone got thrown from a stroppy horse on countryfile.


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## yardbird (Nov 15, 2009)

Right then , no more internet till eight then


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2009)

It was the one wher Ianto died and all the kids were threatened


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## 8den (Nov 15, 2009)

Strumpet said:


> LOVE Torchwood! I saed it....unless I've missed another!?



If you've not seen "Torchwood; Children of Earth", go and torrent that. Singularly the best Sci Fi the BBC have done in decades. If not the on the planet.


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## 8den (Nov 15, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> It was the one XXXX died and all the kids were threatened




Oh spoiler that! Or I'll ram a sonic screwdriver so far up your bum, that I'll be able to reverse the polarity of your tonsils.


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## nicksonic (Nov 15, 2009)

8den said:


> Ohhhh someone got thrown from a stroppy horse on countryfile.



did it get freaked out by a dalek??????????????????


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2009)

8den said:


> BBC 1. I'm watching countryfile while I wait. And the towering inferno is on.
> 
> Ohhhh someone got thrown from a stroppy horse on countryfile.



What time does it start?


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## spanglechick (Nov 15, 2009)

shane ramsay!


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## marty21 (Nov 15, 2009)

I'm not feeling the love for this


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## lizzieloo (Nov 15, 2009)

I could have sorted it without all that faf


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## agricola (Nov 15, 2009)

Not that scary, and not in the same league as _Children of Earth_, but still good.


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## 1927 (Nov 15, 2009)

I enjoyed that.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 15, 2009)

Wouldn't say that was scary, but enjoyable.


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## gnoriac (Nov 15, 2009)

Good up until the end, when the Doctor turned all manic about his power, etc. Just doesn't really seem to fit with the big story. He's supposed to be responible and philosophic... not explaining this well.


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## MikeMcc (Nov 15, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> Good up until the end, when the Doctor turned all manic about his power, etc. Just doesn't really seem to fit with the big story. He's supposed to be responible and philosophic... not explaining this well.


But then he realised that he still couldn't change anything!


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## Maurice Picarda (Nov 15, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> Just doesn't really seem to fit with the big story. .


 
You only get a big story if there's a bit of character development. 

Interesting in its own right, and a perfectly good space station romp to set it in. I'm happy.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2009)

Meh


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## ivebeenhigh (Nov 15, 2009)

the music was too loud


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## 8den (Nov 15, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> Good up until the end, when the Doctor turned all manic about his power, etc. Just doesn't really seem to fit with the big story. He's supposed to be responible and philosophic... not explaining this well.



I liked it meh, until the ranting Doctor at the end, that was interesting.


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## Maurice Picarda (Nov 15, 2009)

ivebeenhigh said:


> the music was too loud


 
It always is.


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## Iguana (Nov 15, 2009)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Meh



Sums it up nicely imo.


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## colacubes (Nov 15, 2009)

It was scary.  Great writing.  I may have cried.

Russell T Davies is a fucking genius.  I would quite like David Tennant's babies as well thankyouplease


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## 8ball (Nov 15, 2009)

Meh seconded.

Soggy aliens not scary and this 'fixed point in time' stuff is a bit tedious.


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## nicksonic (Nov 15, 2009)

i thought it was good but an obvious stepping stone to the next bit.


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## gnoriac (Nov 15, 2009)

Maurice Picarda said:


> You only get a big story if there's a bit of character development.



I felt it was out of character rather than character development.


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## fogbat (Nov 15, 2009)

The Master is coming back!


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## Balbi (Nov 15, 2009)

Worked for me - space station, some still undefined baddies from Mars - Doctor getting all moral about not interfering with time, and then having his eureka/bwahahahaha moment. Overstretching and manical, this regenerations starting to fray a bit around the edges.

Look forward to Blonde Simm and I swear I saw Sally Sparrow in the trailer


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## colacubes (Nov 15, 2009)

fogbat said:


> The Master is coming back!



I would also quite like John Simm's babies thankyouplease


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## colacubes (Nov 15, 2009)

And a note for people who didn't find it scary - watch it in the dark with just a candle on.  It delivers


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## nicksonic (Nov 15, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> I felt it was out of character rather than character development.



that's what i thought. i think it's more 'story development' for where they want to get to.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2009)

Iguana said:


> Sums it up nicely imo.



Lots of running away. I missed the first bit then put my daughter to bed and they were still running untill the last 5 finutes.


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## gnoriac (Nov 15, 2009)

What was supposed to be inside the glacier they were breaking up? Was hoping it was gonna be the Ice Warriors themselves. A new, updated 2009 version of course.


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## strung out (Nov 15, 2009)

second time i saw this episode, and even better than the first time. seriously fucking good.


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## Maurice Picarda (Nov 15, 2009)

The _28 Days Later_ water drop in the eye - artful homage or crass lift?


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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

I enjoyed it but it's definitely more filler than killer!





and I was a little bit scared


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## punkrockfaggot (Nov 15, 2009)

The doc has finally grown a pair. And gone a bit mad. Time is his concubine.


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## nicksonic (Nov 15, 2009)

i enjoyed the 'i don't like funny robots' nod towards the kandy man


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 15, 2009)

nicksonic said:


> that's what i thought. i think it's more 'story development' for where they want to get to.



Yup, i thought it was good the way it was done, doctor going mad with power once he started realizing it all, then that twist at the end was great.


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## 8ball (Nov 15, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> What was supposed to be inside the glacier they were breaking up?



Something actually scary but beyond the scope of the effects budget.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 15, 2009)

pussay


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## gamma globulins (Nov 15, 2009)

The thing about Russel T Davies is, they should always take his scripts away from him and give them to another writer for the last act. IMO he always struggles to write a satisfying climax.


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## Balbi (Nov 15, 2009)

Bugger, it may not be Sally. My fanboy love grows ever angrier


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## tendril (Nov 15, 2009)

I enjoyed it... a nod to the darker side of the doctor and the megalomaniac in us all.


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## Balbi (Nov 15, 2009)

It's cocking Lucy Saxon


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## ShiftyBagLady (Nov 15, 2009)

fogbat said:


> The Master is coming back!



what was that thing? is that his CO?


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## pigtails (Nov 15, 2009)

Can't wait for the Master!!


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## QueenOfGoths (Nov 15, 2009)

We enjoyed it, quite freaky badies, reference to the Ice Warriers, the Doctor going a bit mad -and I had a little tear in  my eye at the thought of Bernard Cribbins and the Master coming back


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## Balbi (Nov 15, 2009)

Fuck YEAH, forgot about my hero Bernard


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## danny la rouge (Nov 15, 2009)

gnoriac said:


> Good up until the end, when the Doctor turned all manic about his power, etc. Just doesn't really seem to fit with the big story. He's supposed to be responible and philosophic... not explaining this well.


He's sick/tired and needs to regenerate.  He's losing it.  He needs a new body to get equilibrium back.

The Ecclescake to Ten Inch regeneration was light on that stuff.  We hadn't really got to know Ecclescake, and the regeneration was a bit quick and wham bam.  This time it looks like they're playing the "fraying round the edges" thing (as someone put it) this time.  No doubt RTD is wanting to give the regeneration thing a big part to play, not least because it coincides with his departure.

Anyway, enough nerdiness: it was a great episode.  I loved it.


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## nicksonic (Nov 15, 2009)

8ball said:


> Something actually scary but beyond the scope of the effects budget.



i was hoping it was going to herald the welcome return of the myrka.


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## spanglechick (Nov 15, 2009)

Balbi said:


> Look forward to Blonde Simm and I swear I saw Sally Sparrow in the trailer



ahh now... i do hope you did.  Just think of how ace a foil to tennant's doc she would've been.  would have companioned martha off the screen (yes, I know she came later) and I could have really bought into the kind of obsession everyone was sposed to have had if she'd been playing rosie-posy tyler.

she just seems clever.

anyway... couldawouldashoulda.

this was ok.  better than the bus in the sand.  quite intrigued by where they were taking the doctor's character toward the end - though maybe they were setting him up to be unsympathetic and thus soften the blow for the hoards beating their breasts and rending their clothes over tennant's imminent regeneration.  but then he found some humility.  shame.

i thought the action stations stuff when he decided to save the final three was lacking punch due to being too frantic, but otherwise some good moments.  i had hoped from the trailer that the danger from the dripping water would be a bit like 'blink' in the slow, creeping, drip-drip-drip fear... potential for giving a whole generation of kids hydrophobia.


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## Balbi (Nov 15, 2009)

Yeah, if its raining tomorrow Year 1 and 2 will be empty


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## moomoo (Nov 15, 2009)

We really enjoyed it.  Which was just as well as it's all the little one has banged on about all day!


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## BlueSquareThing (Nov 15, 2009)

spanglechick said:


> shane ramsay!



*That's* who it was. I knew I knew that bloody actor.

Ta


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## William of Walworth (Nov 15, 2009)

tendril said:


> I enjoyed it... a nod to the darker side of the doctor and the megalomaniac in us all.



Yes, I agree with this.

Enjoyed it hugely


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## yardbird (Nov 15, 2009)

spanglechick said:


> slow, creeping, drip-drip-drip fear... potential for giving a whole generation of kids hydrophobia.


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## fogbat (Nov 15, 2009)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> what was that thing? is that his CO?



In the trailer for the next special - you had him cackling away, then turning to the camera to show off his dodgy blond streaks


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## MikeMcc (Nov 15, 2009)

Some interesting stuff in the Confidential episode, how he needs a companion to temper the potential meglomania.  Even had some stuff with Donna saying how he needs someone.  Looks like this idea has been planned for a while.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 15, 2009)

very good. I knew he'd lost it when he decided to save them. Deffo laying foundations for regeneration.

And WTF was that random ood about?


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## Iguana (Nov 15, 2009)

spanglechick said:


> quite intrigued by where they were taking the doctor's character toward the end - though maybe they were setting him up to be unsympathetic and thus soften the blow for the hoards beating their breasts and rending their clothes over tennant's imminent regeneration.  but then he found some humility.  shame.



And that's exactly the problem.  He was all a bit maniacal about his realised omnipotence for less than a minute.  Then he learned he was wrong.  If he had gone off in the TARDIS feeling victorious and he never knew that Brooke shot herself it would have had a point.  But a minute of arrogance followed by instant humility has no real knock on.

And besides that 1 (cancelled out) minute the whole episode was meh.


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## argenteum (Nov 15, 2009)

GADGET GADGET 

I cannot wait until RTD is taken away from this program.


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## Iguana (Nov 15, 2009)

BlueSquareThing said:


> *That's* who it was. I knew I knew that bloody actor.
> 
> Ta



He was also in Queer as Folk.  He was Vince's boyfriend Cameron who got dumped for not being able to name all the Doctors.  That made me chuckle for the first 5 minutes.


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## MikeMcc (Nov 15, 2009)

Oh, on the confidential they slowed down the last bit where she shot herself.  Oh wow, they've really gone into some depth.  Explains the Ood as well, they've predicted his death.


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## BlueSquareThing (Nov 15, 2009)

Iguana said:


> He was also in Queer as Folk.  He was Vince's boyfriend Cameron who got dumped for not being able to name all the Doctors.  That made me chuckle for the first 5 minutes.



You are RTD aren't you?!! 

I'd forgotten that bit of QaF - must buy it on dvd I think...


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## Iguana (Nov 15, 2009)

BlueSquareThing said:


> You are RTD aren't you?!!
> 
> I'd forgotten that bit of QaF - must buy it on dvd I think...



Woohoo!  Royalties aplenty.


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## nicksonic (Nov 15, 2009)

Iguana said:


> He was also in Queer as Folk.  He was Vince's boyfriend Cameron who got dumped for not being able to name all the Doctors.  That made me chuckle for the first 5 minutes.



i only recently realised that stuart is in fact carcetti in 'the wire'.


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## Awesome Wells (Nov 15, 2009)

boring.

good start with scary andy.

then devolved into more tennant craptitude. 

'ooh he's a bit evil' - yawn.

Just get the xmas episode on and we can be done with him and his tedious overacting shtick which is the same thing every episode. 

Didn't think to electrocute them earlier then.


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## Awesome Wells (Nov 15, 2009)

MikeMcc said:


> Some interesting stuff in the Confidential episode, how he needs a companion to temper the potential meglomania.  Even had some stuff with Donna saying how he needs someone.  Looks like this idea has been planned for a while.


they've been doing it in every episode for the past 2 seasons at least. it's nothing new.


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## agricola (Nov 15, 2009)

pigtails said:


> Can't wait for the Master!!



here he is:


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## nicksonic (Nov 15, 2009)

agricola said:


> here he is:



no  

here -


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## Santino (Nov 15, 2009)

Shame the Master wasn't on Mars, that would have given great intertextuality.


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## spanglechick (Nov 15, 2009)

Santino said:


> Shame the Master wasn't on Mars, that would have given great intertextuality.



i liked the 'bowie' nod, though.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 15, 2009)

spanglechick said:


> i liked the 'bowie' nod, though.


Yes.  Intertexuality enough, given the Master's appearance in the trail.


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## Santino (Nov 16, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes.  Intertexuality enough, given the Master's appearance in the trail.



I don't count trailers as being in the text.


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## spanglechick (Nov 16, 2009)

so - probably not conscious... but i like the fact that simm's new peroxide mop is reminiscent of simon pegg when he was on who a couple of years back...

and this is only noteworthy if you, like me, see simm and pegg as inhabiting the same, interchangeable, casting bracket (with whassisocks from the office).


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## 8ball (Nov 16, 2009)

Martin Freeman?


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

Santino said:


> I don't count trailers as being in the text.


Jesus.  Next you'll be saying E. M. Forster's frontispieces aren't part of the text.


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## Santino (Nov 16, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> Jesus.  Next you'll be saying E. M. Forster's frontispieces aren't part of the text.



I'll have to put my teeth in first.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

Santino said:


> I'll have to put my teeth in first.


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## spanglechick (Nov 16, 2009)

8ball said:


> Martin Freeman?



him, yes.  

martin freeman------->simon pegg-------> john simm.

interchangable casting... though there is a L-R scale of comedy->serious, and probably pay.

actually, on edit - that doesn't hold up.  pegg is more comedy but better paid than freeman.  but they are essentially interchangeable.  it's the physicals.  and the sideburns.


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## Artaxerxes (Nov 16, 2009)

Just a bit pants really...


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## PursuedByBears (Nov 16, 2009)

Well, I thought that was shit.  I watched it on sky plus, got bored about 40 mins in and then wanted to see what urban thought...  I can't believe some people liked it!  

Bored bored bored...


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

PursuedByBears said:


> Well, I thought that was shit.  I watched it on sky plus, got bored about 40 mins in and then wanted to see what urban thought...  I can't believe some people liked it!
> 
> Bored bored bored...


Can't imagine what you were wanting, then.


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## belboid (Nov 16, 2009)

That was a very fine episode, deffo one of the best of the specials, building nicely to a climax in a couple of months. Doctor starting to unravel, what with all the pressures of eternal life and not being god after all. We knew he had to get some of them off the planet somehow, after Pompeii he couldn’t just let people die, but where could he put them??  Not back on earth would seem like a sensible place to start, but what do I know?

Has there ever been a suicide on the show before? Wouldn’t wanna explain that to the kiddies.

And I did like that the resume for one of the lasses had her being born in Grenoside and going to the University of Sheffield.


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## cesare (Nov 16, 2009)

I enjoyed it. Touch of moral ambiguity for the Doctor. Much better than Spiderman anyway.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

belboid said:


> That was a very fine episode, deffo one of the best of the specials, building nicely to a climax in a couple of months. Doctor starting to unravel, what with all the pressures of eternal life and not being god after all. We knew he had to get some of them off the planet somehow, after Pompeii he couldn’t just let people die, but where could he put them??  Not back on earth would seem like a sensible place to start, but what do I know?


I assumed he'd taken them back to Victorian London for a moment.  Something to do with the comments earlier about Christmas.  It did look all Dickensian and snowy. But then that would have been too upbeat.


> Has there ever been a suicide on the show before? Wouldn’t wanna explain that to the kiddies.


My ten-year-old wasn't so bothered by that, as by the idea that there are certain fixed moments in history.

But that's all part of having a time travelling do-gooder as your protagonist.  It's going to get muddy.


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

belboid said:


> Has there ever been a suicide on the show before? Wouldn’t wanna explain that to the kiddies.



the closest i can recall is adric dying in 'earthshock'.


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## William of Walworth (Nov 16, 2009)

PursuedByBears said:


> I can't believe some people liked it!
> 
> Bored bored bored...



Amd I just don't understand this reaction    

What would these fierce critics have wanted instead?


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## pigtails (Nov 16, 2009)

Can someone remind me what the 4 knocks was about??


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

pigtails said:


> Can someone remind me what the 4 knocks was about??


The weird woman at the end of the flying bus episode said it.  We don't know yet what she meant.


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## Santino (Nov 16, 2009)

pigtails said:


> Can someone remind me what the 4 knocks was about??


Some psychic told him he would die soon, and that someone would knock four times.


Da-da-da-dum


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## pigtails (Nov 16, 2009)

oooooh yes!!
thanks


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

pigtails said:


> oooooh yes!!
> thanks


And remember ...



Spoiler:  Tony Orlando



The whole Master/drumming thing?


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## pigtails (Nov 16, 2009)

God it's so complicated at times!!  My poor little brain gets overwhelmed trying to remember and link everything together!


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

pigtails said:


> God it's so complicated at times!!  My poor little brain gets overwhelmed trying to remember and link everything together!



(((((Pigtails' poor little brain)))))


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## pigtails (Nov 16, 2009)

thanks dlr - you can be my lovely "Who" encyclopeadia, I shall come to you for info when I'm all


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## strung out (Nov 16, 2009)

i'm going to watch my new sontaran box set this afternoon. the time warrior is going to be ace. the others are a bit shit mind.


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## belboid (Nov 16, 2009)

William of Walworth said:


> Amd I just don't understand this reaction
> 
> What would these fierce critics have wanted instead?



Tom  Baker.


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## innit (Nov 16, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> I assumed he'd taken them back to Victorian London for a moment.  Something to do with the comments earlier about Christmas.  It did look all Dickensian and snowy. But then that would have been too upbeat.



We were thinking he should have started a time-refugees camp - take them far away in time and space so everyone would have believed they died on Mars, the future still happens and they get to frolic on another planet.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

belboid said:


> Tom  Baker.


His wind-down to regeneration was similarly frayed and ambiguous, iirc.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

innit said:


> We were thinking he should have started a time-refugees camp - take them far away in time and space so everyone would have believed they died on Mars, the future still happens and they get to frolic on another planet.


Yes, well my notion was dump them in the past, so they live but not according to the history books. Similar really.

I think the Doctor used to do wipe memories, too.  Didn't he dump his kilted companion back in 1745, with his memory wiped?


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## belboid (Nov 16, 2009)

he did it too Donna too, easy peasy.

I like the refugee camp idea


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

strung_out said:


> i'm going to watch my new sontaran box set this afternoon. the time warrior is going to be ace. the others are a bit shit mind.



does it have 'the two doctors' as well...?


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## strung out (Nov 16, 2009)

nicksonic said:


> does it have 'the two doctors' as well...?



oh yes, it's got all the classic sontaran episodes


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

strung_out said:


> oh yes, it's got all the classic sontaran episodes



*officially jealous*


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

belboid said:


> he did it to Donna too, easy peasy.


So he did.


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## strung out (Nov 16, 2009)

nicksonic said:


> *officially jealous*



i got it free too!


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## pigtails (Nov 16, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> So he did.



you're so sacked as my encyclopaedia!!
even I knew that!


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

pigtails said:


> you're so sacked as my encyclopaedia!!
> even I knew that!


He wiped my memory, too.


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## pigtails (Nov 16, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> He wiped my memory, too.



nice save!!


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2009)

strung_out said:


> oh yes, it's got all the classic sontaran episodes



Yeah, I have my eye on that. It was £8 on ebay the other day but I got greedy waiting for it to go lower and now it's back to a tenner. Bah. 

I got trial of a time lord (4 DVDs) - new - for £3 off amazon. Mind you that is all it's worth.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2009)

strung_out said:


> i got it free too!



Oh well that beats £8 any day.


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I got trial of a time lord (4 DVDs) - new - for £3 off amazon. Mind you that is all it's worth.



do you dislike the vervoids???


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## PursuedByBears (Nov 16, 2009)

Really don't see what all the fuss was about with this episode

"Let's run from one end of the base to the other"

"No, the monsters are chasing us back to where we started"

"Let's use this crappy robot so the BBC has a merchandising opportunity for Christmas toys"

"I saved you but you killed yourself and now I'm all alone again..."

I read quite a bit about this episode beforehand and thought it would be much more subtle, the idea of creeping water slowly subverting the base, but it was just a series of action sequences and shouting. 

Don't get me wrong, I love Doctor Who, but Tennant and RTD are in danger of spoiling it for me forever.

Meh


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## belboid (Nov 16, 2009)

oh well, they're both going soon so you can stop whining


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## PursuedByBears (Nov 16, 2009)

So sorry mr belboid sir, hope my whining never disturbs you again


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## andy2002 (Nov 16, 2009)

I've enjoyed RTD's run on the show but didn't think much to that, to be honest. Tennant's 'madness' just seemed to come out of nowhere and, oh look, yet another fixed point in time was the basis of the story. Yawn. I preferred the silliness of Planet of the Dead.


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## belboid (Nov 16, 2009)

PursuedByBears said:


> So sorry mr belboid sir, hope my whining never disturbs you again


oh i'm sure you'll whine about the next two episodes as well.


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## belboid (Nov 16, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> I've enjoyed RTD's run on the show but didn't think much to that, to be honest. Tennant's 'madness' just seemed to come out of nowhere and, oh look, yet another fixed point in time was the basis of the story. Yawn. I preferred the silliness of Planet of the Dead.



His 'madness' has been growing throughout the last series & set of specials, increasing loneliness and feelings of godlike power and responsibility.  All clearly (in hindshight) planned and gearing up towards this conclusion...

& I think the 'fixed points in time' make sense - and they're not even an RTD invention are they?


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## andy2002 (Nov 16, 2009)

belboid said:


> His 'madness' has been growing throughout the last series & set of specials, increasing loneliness and feelings of godlike power and responsibility.  All clearly (in hindshight) planned and gearing up towards this conclusion...
> 
> & I think the 'fixed points in time' make sense - and they're not even an RTD invention are they?



The Doctor has always been lonely and had 'godlike power' - I hardly see Tennant's version being massively different to any of the others in that regard. But the one thing The Doctor should know by now is that he needs other people to help him or he's a very long way from being a 'Timelord victorious' - he needed Rose to beat the Daleks, Martha to beat the Master, Donna to beat Davros and six different companions to pilot the Tardis so it could tow Earth back to its proper place in the universe. For someone supposedly 'godlike' he relies on mere mortals an awful lot.

Whether fixed points in time were RTD's invention or not, he's rather overused the idea.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2009)

The drumming doctor....


Man I can't wait for Simms to come back. He's better than Delgado


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## belboid (Nov 16, 2009)

He's getting more egotistical cos he's tjhe last of the timelords now, bit of a difference.

And he hasn't useed the fixed points that often has he?  WW2 & Pompeii are the only other ones I can think of, off-hand.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2009)

nicksonic said:


> do you dislike the vervoids???



Actually I think I was being unnecessarily harsh as is the tradition with Colin Bakers Who. It's got some good moments.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2009)

Trial of a Time Lord and Peri


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Actually I think I was being unnecessarily harsh as is the tradition with Colin Bakers Who. It's got some good moments.




davison and baker were 'my' doctors so i don't look on the sixth incarnation *too* unfavourably, especially considering the perpugilliam drown dimension  

'timelash' was awful tho.


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## strung out (Nov 16, 2009)

patrick troughton was the best doctor. pretty much all of his remaining stories are classics, The War Games is one of my favourite episodes ever, along with tomb of the cybermen, the mind robber and the seeds of death. best doctor ever.


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> Trial of a Time Lord and Peri



nice synchroncity there DC, as a reward you get this - 








(i tried to find one from 'planet of fire' but they were all rubbish quality )


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## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2009)

I think future generations will rate Tennant up there with Baker tbh. And not just cos he's 'thier' doctor, but because of the consistent quality of cast and writing.


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## andy2002 (Nov 16, 2009)

belboid said:


> And he hasn't useed the fixed points that often has he?  WW2 & Pompeii are the only other ones I can think of, off-hand.



The Time War is a fixed point in time, too, and that has been mentioned an awful lot.


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## QueenOfGoths (Nov 16, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> I think future generations will rate Tennant up there with Baker tbh. And not just cos he's 'thier' doctor, but because of the consistent quality of cast and writing.



I was thinking while watching Lindsay Duncan in last night's episode how many good 'heavyweight' thesps they have had on the show.

Christopher Ecclestone and David Tennant are both excellent and well respected actors plus the likes of John Simm, Lindsay Duncan, Derek Jacobi etc.. add a gravitas and extra layer to the show - for me at least  - which perhaps less talented performers wouldn't be able to do.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

DotCommunist said:


> I think future generations will rate Tennant up there with Baker tbh. And not just cos he's 'thier' doctor, but because of the consistent quality of cast and writing.


Rightly so: Dr Who has been _vastly_ better in its modern incarnation (Ecclescake and Ten Inch).  I loved the old series as a kid, and held a soft spot for it, but it was a "despite it all" kind of affection.  In the RTD era, though, it has actually been high quality stuff.

Tennant is the best Doctor, followed by Ecclestone.  No question. And I remember Troughton.


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## belboid (Nov 16, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> The Time War is a fixed point in time, too, and that has been mentioned an awful lot.



it doesnt get mentioned as a fixed point tho, and we didn't see it, so it aint the same thing really.


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## kyser_soze (Nov 16, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> The Doctor has always been lonely and had 'godlike power' - I hardly see Tennant's version being massively different to any of the others in that regard. But the one thing The Doctor should know by now is that he needs other people to help him or he's a very long way from being a 'Timelord victorious' - he needed Rose to beat the Daleks, Martha to beat the Master, Donna to beat Davros and six different companions to pilot the Tardis so it could tow Earth back to its proper place in the universe. For someone supposedly 'godlike' he relies on mere mortals an awful lot.
> 
> Whether fixed points in time were RTD's invention or not, he's rather overused the idea.



Yeah, but if he'd not been bothered about saving anyone, if he'd just sid 'Fuck it all, I'm a fucking _god_', he wouldn't have needed anyone.



QueenOfGoths said:


> I was thinking while watching Lindsay Duncan in last night's episode how many good 'heavyweight' thesps they have had on the show.
> 
> Christopher Ecclestone and David Tennant are both excellent and well respected actors plus the likes of John Simm, Lindsay Duncan, Derek Jacobi etc.. add a gravitas and extra layer to the show - for me at least  - which perhaps less talented performers wouldn't be able to do.



Same as TNG with Picard, Star Wars with Alec Guinness etc. It's a SF movie/TV show trope that the inclusion of at least one senior Brit thesp type (viz: Bobby Carlyle in SGU lifts the show) adds gravitas. From what I've read about production a lot of the time it can lift the performances of the rest of the cast too.


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## andy2002 (Nov 16, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> Rightly so: Dr Who has been _vastly_ better in its modern incarnation (Ecclescake and Ten Inch).  I loved the old series as a kid, and held a soft spot for it, but it was a "despite it all" kind of affection.  In the RTD era, though, it has actually been high quality stuff.



I agree with this - apart from the odd duff episode (and I'd put Waters Of Mars in that category, unfortunately) the new series has been generally pretty terrific. The original series, for all its charm, really was terrible a lot of the time. Even stories that are held in high esteem, such as Pyramids Of Mars, just seem horribly slow, repetitive and clunky now, and things like Warriors Of The Deep are just utterly laughable.


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## andy2002 (Nov 16, 2009)

belboid said:


> it doesnt get mentioned as a fixed point tho, and we didn't see it, so it aint the same thing really.



I can't quote you chapter and verse but it is definitely mentioned as being a fixed point in time in Journey's End and probably before that, too.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> For someone supposedly 'godlike' he relies on mere mortals an awful lot.


"God_like_" doesn't equal actual god.  And anyway, it's a complex the character has; it isn't actually true.  Rose was more Godlike when she looked into the core of the Tardis.

(Furthermore, Gods do need mortals.  They seem very keen on being worshipped etc).


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> I can't quote you chapter and verse but it is definitely mentioned as being a fixed point in time in Journey's End and probably before that, too.



it's one of the events that 'can't' be changed.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 16, 2009)

kyser_soze said:


> Yeah, but if he'd not been bothered about saving anyone, if he'd just sid 'Fuck it all, I'm a fucking _god_', he wouldn't have needed anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> Same as TNG with Picard, Star Wars with Alec Guinness etc. It's a SF movie/TV show trope that the inclusion of at least one senior Brit thesp type (viz: Bobby Carlyle in SGU lifts the show) adds gravitas. *From what I've read about production a lot of the time it can lift the performances of the rest of the cast too.*



This makes sense. Other actors not wanting to look like shit next to the RSC type.

Robbie is currently the best thing about SGU though.


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## belboid (Nov 16, 2009)

andy2002 said:


> I can't quote you chapter and verse but it is definitely mentioned as being a fixed point in time in Journey's End and probably before that, too.



yeah, but it's not a key plot feature, nor was it (iirr) in relation to any WW" story, it just gets a mention ('why dont you kill hitler?' kinda thing) so it doesn't impact on the story in any way. Other than this one and Pompeii Ican't think of an episode where it has been key.


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## Griff (Nov 16, 2009)

Anyone know when this is repeated, missed this and Top Gear due to drink.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

Griff said:


> Anyone know when this is repeated, missed this and Top Gear due to drink.


iPlayer.  (But not Top Gear, that's been cancelled for your own good).


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## Santino (Nov 16, 2009)

If you watch Top Gear while drunk they put points on your TV licence.


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## London_Calling (Nov 16, 2009)

First time I've seen Tennant as the Doctor. Thought he was pretty good, much better in this than the Pet Shop Boys.


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

London_Calling said:


> First time I've seen Tennant as the Doctor. Thought he was pretty good, much better in this than the Pet Shop Boys.



i read that joke and thought 'it's a sin'.


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## goldenecitrone (Nov 16, 2009)

Water hasn't been that scary since Jaws. And all because he ate that raw carrot. Terrifying.


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## danny la rouge (Nov 16, 2009)

nicksonic said:


> i read that joke and thought 'it's a sin'.


I would have, but I just never found the ti-i-ime.


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

goldenecitrone said:


> Water hasn't been that scary since Jaws. And all because he ate that raw carrot. Terrifying.



'don't eat carrots, especially unwashed ones' was my conclusion.


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

danny la rouge said:


> i would have, but i just never found the ti-i-ime.



ha ha ha!


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## BlueSquareThing (Nov 16, 2009)

nicksonic said:


> nice synchroncity there DC, as a reward you get this -
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for that


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

BlueSquareThing said:


> Thank you for that



no problem, always a pleasure


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Nov 16, 2009)

Ah Peri. I never appreciated her at the time. I stupidly was fixated on Yvette Fielding in seaview. We all know now that I wasn't backing the winner. The Peri lady is still very attractive and got to marry Brian Blessed on TV.


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## nicksonic (Nov 16, 2009)

well it seems like you've _eventually_ realised your mistake so it's forgiven  

did you know that her and colin baker did a spinoff (of sorts)...?

can't remember what it's called offhand but i have it on vhs.


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## Axilotil (Nov 16, 2009)

I don't know if it's been said, but the very first thing DT said when the woman shot herself and he 'found humility' was 'is it time?'. The whole megalomania thing was just a reaction to the news of his imminent death, he was told again by that old woman in the last episode. This doctor was more emotional, so was bound to be irrational knowing that he is about to die. I think his attempt to change this fixed point in time was attempt to show himself that he could cheat death too, if he wanted.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 17, 2009)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Ah Peri. I never appreciated her at the time. I stupidly was fixated on Yvette Fielding in seaview. We all know now that I wasn't backing the winner. The Peri lady is still very attractive and got to marry Brian Blessed on TV.



Yeah she was attractive, but i couldn't stand her acting/voice.


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## BlueSquareThing (Nov 17, 2009)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Yeah she was attractive, but i couldn't stand her acting/voice.



I *honestly* can't remember her voice...


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 17, 2009)

BlueSquareThing said:


> I *honestly* can't remember her voice...



Check some old episodes online with her in.


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## BlueSquareThing (Nov 17, 2009)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Check some old episodes online with her in.



Yeah, I know: but that means I have to find out which eps and then go and buy them or something.

And, to be honest, that's too much like hard work you know 

Are there You Tube clips at all?


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 17, 2009)

BlueSquareThing said:


> Yeah, I know: but that means I have to find out which eps and then go and buy them or something.
> 
> And, to be honest, that's too much like hard work you know
> 
> Are there You Tube clips at all?



All the episodes of the classic series are on a site called dailymotion.


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## Quartz (Nov 17, 2009)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Yeah she was attractive, but i couldn't stand her acting/voice.



Her accent was deliberately bad American, IIRC. Her natural accent is British.


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 17, 2009)

Quartz said:


> Her accent was deliberately bad American, IIRC. Her natural accent is British.



Oh? I didn't realize that!


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## nicksonic (Nov 17, 2009)

Quartz said:


> Her accent was deliberately bad American, IIRC. Her natural accent is British.



indeed. peri was an american character - giving the sixth doctor some good banter opportunities - but nicola bryant is in fact a brit.


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## nicksonic (Nov 17, 2009)

TrippyLondoner said:


> All the episodes of the classic series are on a site called dailymotion.



i'll check that out although all this doctor who chat has made me think i really should invest in some dvd's


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## TrippyLondoner (Nov 17, 2009)

nicksonic said:


> i'll check that out although all this doctor who chat has made me think i really should invest in some dvd's



Gotta correct myself slightly, all the doctor who episodes available are on dailymotion, cause ofcourse some very old ones got destroyed for some reason, stupid BBC.


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## nicksonic (Nov 17, 2009)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Gotta correct myself slightly, all the doctor who episodes available are on dailymotion, cause ofcourse some very old ones got destroyed for some reason, stupid BBC.



yes, let's record over all the old tapes because of *course* no-one will want to watch repeats of ANYTHING, especially not classic sci-fi


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## hektik (Nov 17, 2009)

watched this last night - thought it was OK, although it suffered from the amount of hype surrounding it - if it had been an episode of a normal series, it would have been a delightful surprise. But because it was a standalone, it had loads of great trailers which made it look like it was going to be really dark and interesting - so when you saw the final episode it was ultimately disappointing. 

i think him going a bit loopy with his power was the really interesting part, which was obviously done with a mind to the next set of specials..it will be interesting to see what they do with the master, because the doctor was starting to get the same taste for power that he [the master] generally displays. 

plus of course, he's only gone loopy because of his link with "humanity" - if he had stayed a proper time lord, he would have let all of those people on the base die, as well as the family he saved at pompeii (in which episode i recall they worshipped a figure of the doctor and donna and tardis as the house gods, which is a nice bit of foreshadowing of this episode). It's only because he hangs around with humans so much that he has developed a knack for interfering and saving people he shouldn't.


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## elevendayempire (Nov 17, 2009)

nicksonic said:


> indeed. peri was an american character - giving the sixth doctor some good banter opportunities - but nicola bryant is in fact a brit.


Doesn't she have a US passport? ISTR they used that to pretend she was American when she was cast.


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## fogbat (Nov 17, 2009)

nicksonic said:


> well it seems like you've _eventually_ realised your mistake so it's forgiven
> 
> did you know that her and colin baker did a spinoff (of sorts)...?
> 
> can't remember what it's called offhand but i have it on vhs.



_Tom's Putting it in Now_, IIRC...


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 17, 2009)

this was half of a good episode and half an RTD shit pile     ok  more like 80:20   

it  had   the  possibility  of  being  a good  episode   all about  cabin feaver hidden infection  and  isolation     a bit like the thing (jc moive) or  the satan pit    however   it  fucked over the ending

the ending  was  another RTD big pile of pooh  over  the top ending  that tries  to be epic  but  ends up being melodramatic 

they  just keep fucking up these specials  


proper  epic   was  that moment  in genisis  when  about to  blow up the  daleks   baker  just aks himself  what is he  doing ....    you don't  need  fire  explostions   and timelord victorious bullshit   you need quiet moment   of reflection


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## elevendayempire (Nov 17, 2009)

Shippou-Chan said:


> this was half of a good episode and half an RTD shit pile     ok  more like 80:20
> 
> it  had   the  possibility  of  being  a good  episode   all about  cabin feaver hidden infection  and  isolation     a bit like the thing (jc moive) or  the satan pit    however   it  fucked over the ending


You do realise that Russell T Davies basically wrote The Satan Pit, right? It has another writer's name on it, but Davies did a shit-ton of rewrites on it.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Nov 17, 2009)

that would explain the really bad use of the demon at the end...


actually  i don't   hate RTD  i just look back at his track record   and it looks pritty bad


----------

