# Lost pubs, cinemas, theatres and squats of Brixton



## editor (Dec 6, 2005)

After I was reminded of my abandoned project to snap closed pubs in Brixton, I'd be grateful if peeps could list any closed pubs in and around their Brixton 'hood (incl the full address) and I'll go around on my bike and snap them all for a "those we have loved and lost" ( © Donna) 'closed pub' section on the site.

These are the ones I've photographed so far:

Plough Stockwell (I know it's not quite Brixton, but it's close enough)
Hamilton Arms
King of Sardinia
That pub at the top of Acre Lane
The pub that is now a building society on Brixton Road opp the job centre
Green Man
Bradys
Junction
Mucky Duck Coldharbour La (has this opened?)

Your help please Brixton folks!


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## lang rabbie (Dec 6, 2005)

Lord Stanley, 31 Hinton Road (demolished???)
Russell Hotel, 116 Brixton Road
Warrior, 242 Coldharbour Lane
Duke of Cornwall, 89 Lyham Road (converted to flats)
Royal Oak, 2 Lyham Road (under threat of demolition?)
and I'm sure Lyham Road has lost at least one other one.


The Two Woodcocks did reopen after a prolonged close down in 2003, didn't it


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## Donna Ferentes (Dec 6, 2005)

The Two Woodlice? Yes, I believe so.

One local boozer I had no intention of patronising.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 6, 2005)

It's the King of SARDINES


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 6, 2005)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> and I'm sure Lyham Road has lost at least one other one.
> 
> 
> The Two Woodcocks did reopen after a prolonged close down in 2003, didn't it




were you thinking of the Waggon and Horses?


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## Brixton Hatter (Dec 6, 2005)

Other boozers have been closed and re-opened with a makeover so complete that they pretty much qualify as new "pubs" (I use the term 'pub' loosely) including The Queen, Ferndale Road; The Commercial in Herne Hill; the Brockwell Park Tavern (now 'Ganleys')...etc

Also, what was the name of the pub on Coldharbour Lane that is now 'Living' (sic)...I can't for the life of me remember it...it was only about 5 years ago it shut, no?


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## christonabike (Dec 6, 2005)

Coach and Horses


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## Brixton Hatter (Dec 6, 2005)

my question answered already (see above)!


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## lang rabbie (Dec 6, 2005)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> were you thinking of the Waggon and Horses?



Has that gone too!     I was thinking there was another building that had been converted years ago.   I'm trying to remember the order of them down the hill.   ls the Waggon & Horses on the Acre Lane side and the Red Lion on the Brixton Hill side.

About ten years ago, a group of us once managed to pub-crawl all the way down New Park Road and Lyham Road.   I remember one place where the landlord was the spitting image of Al Murray, right down to his attitude to a female member of our party drinking pints!


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## magneze (Dec 6, 2005)

christonabike said:
			
		

> Coach and Horses


On Acre Lane? That's still open.


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## Dubversion (Dec 6, 2005)

The Albert was closed when i went past this morning. But then it was still early


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## dogmatique (Dec 6, 2005)

Harriers - Herne Hill Rd - Demolished.


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## aurora green (Dec 6, 2005)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> Lord Stanley, 31 Hinton Road (demolished???)



Yep and then there's the Harriers (?), also demolished a few years ago, left with a gigantic hole in the  ground to this day.
The Wickwood tavern, Flaxman rd., 'luxury' flats,
The White Heart, Loughborough Rd, also now flats.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 6, 2005)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> Has that gone too!     I was thinking there was another building that had been converted years ago.   I'm trying to remember the order of them down the hill.   ls the Waggon & Horses on the Acre Lane side and the Red Lion on the Brixton Hill side.
> 
> About ten years ago, a group of us once managed to pub-crawl all the way down New Park Road and Lyham Road.   I remember one place where the landlord was the spitting image of Al Murray, right down to his attitude to a female member of our party drinking pints!




Red Lion (screws pub!) is Brixton Hill side.  Waggon and Horses is further up on the other side.  No, I don't think it is shut as I found a website that mentioned it, but it was shut for a long while.  There was another one near it that might be shut but I can't for the life of me remember what it was called


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## lang rabbie (Dec 6, 2005)

Minnie_the_Minx on the wrong thread said:
			
		

> It doesn't look like the Waggon and Horses IS closed.  I know it was for absolutely ages but I've just found it here
> 
> http://www.viewlondon.co.uk/info_pubbar_5600.html



I'm not sure how accurate that site is - a lot of stuff seems out of date, and as for this...



			
				viewlondon venue information said:
			
		

> Description:  The Waggon & Horses is a lovely old pub in the heart of Streatham Hill.


I thought the estate agents described that bit of Lyham Road as Clapham Park


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## clandestino (Dec 6, 2005)

the springfield on solon road

and there was a pub on the road opposite, south of acre lane...been converted into flats, but it's obviously still a pub building.


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## Donna Ferentes (Dec 6, 2005)

There's a book somebody self-published many years ago in Oxford which listed every single pub he could trace that had _ever_ existed in the city. Yes, seventeenth century taverns and all. That would be a model worth trying to emulate...


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## netbob (Dec 6, 2005)

Donna Ferentes said:
			
		

> There's a book somebody self-published many years ago in Oxford which listed every single pub he could trace that had _ever_ existed in the city. Yes, seventeenth century taverns and all. That would be a model worth trying to emulate...



You could map them too, simular to this: http://www.yourhistoryhere.com/


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## IntoStella (Dec 6, 2005)

ianw said:
			
		

> the springfield on solon road
> 
> and there was a pub on the road opposite, south of acre lane...been converted into flats, but it's obviously still a pub building.


Duke of Wellington? 

That is actually _on_ Acre Lane so probably not what you meant.


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## editor (Dec 6, 2005)

<editor pumps up tyres ready for lengthy spin around brixton>


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## IntoStella (Dec 6, 2005)

Coast Bar up the LJ bit of CHL has gone, hasn't it? 

And that pub in Herne Hill Road - the Harriers?


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## clandestino (Dec 6, 2005)

IntoStella said:
			
		

> Duke of Wellington?
> 
> That is actually _on_ Acre Lane so probably not what you meant.




hang on, let me look at a map.

i think it was on the corner of branksome and hayter road. you'll know it when you see it, editor, as it's the building that looks like a converted pub. 

the springy was on the corner of solon road and kepler road. 

there's a couple on lyham road too. the one that's been converted into a restaurant with a white frontage. the other that's opposite crescent lane that's being turned into flats. there's also the pub towards the new park road end of lyham road around the corner from sonik's old flat that says it's opening with a gallery upstairs. hasn't been open for months to my knowledge. 

no idea of the names of these, sorry. 

sadly, you might be able to add the queen to your list quite soon.


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## Dubversion (Dec 6, 2005)

ianw said:
			
		

> sadly, you might be able to add the queen to your list quite soon.



is it doing that badly?


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## lang rabbie (Dec 6, 2005)

By a process of elimination, it seems that The Red Lion (formerly "the screw's pub" at 191 Lyham Road) has been turned into a Caribbean restaurant "The 1" while I wasn't looking!

http://www.mylambeth.co.uk/brixton/restaurants-review-the1.htm


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## Tricky Mickey (Dec 6, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Hamilton Arms



I now live six thousand miles away from that boozer, and it still guts me that it's closed. Such a fucking shame. Have they thrown some shite flats up yet? And where do the regulars, like LKJ and that bloke who drank a vase of snakebite-and-black drink now?


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## clandestino (Dec 6, 2005)

Dubversion said:
			
		

> is it doing that badly?



someone posted on here a while back that it might all be converted into flats. not entirely sure how true that is, but then let's face it the queen as we knew it is long gone anyway. 

could the bagelodeon fit into this? on landor road, so clapham more than brixton, and wasn't so much an old boozer as a shop/cafe that did sneaky after hours drinkups. might be a nice touch.


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## corporate whore (Dec 6, 2005)

Tricky Mickey said:
			
		

> Have they thrown some shite flats up yet? And where do the regulars, like LKJ and that bloke who drank a vase of snakebite-and-black drink now?



Nah, it's another fucking mini-mart..   

Snakebite man drinks in the Hob..

Was there a pub on Mayall Road pre-1981? Maybe in the bit that's now Bob Marley Way?


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## gaijingirl (Dec 6, 2005)

Loughborough Hotel...   
The Mucky Duck is still very much closed.. bricked up with it's NO WAR graffiti on the windows... never understood why that closed.. was it drugs related?   
The Two Woodcocks is still very much up and running and doing quite nicely by the looks of it. 
The Springfield is also all bricked up...


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 7, 2005)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> By a process of elimination, it seems that The Red Lion (formerly "the screw's pub" at 191 Lyham Road) has been turned into a Caribbean restaurant "The 1" while I wasn't looking!
> 
> http://www.mylambeth.co.uk/brixton/restaurants-review-the1.htm




Really?  Wonder where all the screws drink now (apart from their own bar)


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## Ms T (Dec 7, 2005)

corporate whore said:
			
		

> Nah, it's another fucking mini-mart..
> 
> Snakebite man drinks in the Hob..
> 
> Was there a pub on Mayall Road pre-1981? Maybe in the bit that's now Bob Marley Way?



Yes.  It got burnt down in the riots.

Was it The Windsor Castle?


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## Giles (Dec 7, 2005)

IntoStella said:
			
		

> Coast Bar up the LJ bit of CHL has gone, hasn't it?
> 
> And that pub in Herne Hill Road - the Harriers?



The Coast Bar, last time I walked past it, is now a Thai (or some other sort of oriental) restaurant, I think.

Giles..


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## pooka (Dec 7, 2005)

ianw said:
			
		

> the springfield on solon road
> 
> and there was a pub on the road opposite, south of acre lane...been converted into flats, but it's obviously still a pub building.




Former Branksome Arms in......Branksome Road

Just out of Brixton, the splendidly monikered Perseverence Arms on Nelson Row (in William Bonny estate off Clapham High Street).

The name was a reference to a ship, not the application of the regulars to their supping.

Now flats.


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## Donna Ferentes (Dec 7, 2005)

There's a "Perseverance Works" in Hackney.


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## editor (Dec 7, 2005)

Eeek! This is turning into another monster project.

Here's the list so far. If anyone's got full addresses and amy more info it would be appreciated!


*Brixton Road*

The pub that is now a building society opp the job centre (Black Horse?)
Russell Hotel


*Loughborough Junc:*

Coast Bar
Mucky Duck
Green Man
Warrior


*Brixton*

The Loughborough Park Tavern (corner of Coldharbour lane and Gresham Road where Barrier Block is)
Bradys Atlantic Road
Lord Stanley, 31 Hinton Road (demolished???)
Russell Hotel, 116 Brixton Road
Warrior, 242 Coldharbour Lane
Duke of Cornwall, 89 Lyham Road (converted to flats)
Royal Oak, 2 Lyham Road (under threat of demolition?)
The Wickwood tavern, Flaxman rd., 'luxury' flats,
The White Heart, Loughborough Rd, also now flats.
The Red Lion (formerly "the screw's pub" at 191 Lyham Road
the springfield on corner of solon road and kepler road. 
two on lyham road 
King of Sardinia
That pub at the top of Acre Lane
Branksome Arms, Branksome Road
Hammelton, corner of Akerman and Arthur Rd
Pub on corner of Sussex Rd/Loughborough Park Rd (back of Moorlands estate)


*Atlantic Rd area*

Windsor castle
Hamilton Arms
Bradys
Harriers - Herne Hill Rd

Plough, Stockwell


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## aurora green (Dec 7, 2005)

Blimey, that's so many.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 7, 2005)

aurora green said:
			
		

> Blimey, that's so many.





Too bloody right


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## Andy the Don (Dec 7, 2005)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> About ten years ago, a group of us once managed to pub-crawl all the way down New Park Road and Lyham Road.   I remember one place where the landlord was the *spitting image of Al Murray*, right down to his attitude to a female member of our party drinking pints!



It wasn't an Irish chap in the Sultan..??


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## Ms T (Dec 8, 2005)

I think there was a pub on Railton Road as well that got demolished after the riots.


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## editor (Dec 8, 2005)

Ms T said:
			
		

> I think there was a pub on Railton Road as well that got demolished after the riots.


The Windsor Castle in Leeson Road was set on fire and completely destroyed and The George  public house in Railton Road was firebombed. It's now rebuilt as Mingles/Harmony.

Brixton riot


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 8, 2005)

Andy the Don said:
			
		

> It wasn't an Irish chap in the Sultan..??




He's a right miserable git he is


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## nick (Dec 8, 2005)

Pub on the North side of Acre Lane opposite the Hope & Anchor - I believe that it shut a couple of years ago after one too many firearms incidents.

Or has that been mentioned already?

Does Isobar count? (had a brief life betwen Coach & Horses and Living / Linving room


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## editor (Dec 8, 2005)

nick said:
			
		

> Does Isobar count? (had a brief life betwen Coach & Horses and Living / Linving room


Nah. I'm after pubs that are completely closed. 

Isobar was, well, odd, wasn't it? All that cod-Arabic sitting down business in the back. Bit of a shock after the no-frills 1970s-ness of the Coach and Horses.


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## lang rabbie (Dec 8, 2005)

Andy the Don said:
			
		

> It wasn't an Irish chap in the Sultan..??



My memory's failing me.   I do remember when the Sultan was a proper Irish pub, with at least two different stouts on tap (Guinness and Beamish), and am I imagining they sometimes had Murphy's as well.


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## editor (Dec 8, 2005)

Just been pedalling around Brixton taking snaps. What's happening at the Loughborough Hotel? The pub's still open, but there's work going on over the rest of the building. 

Is it - as I fear and suspect - being turned into Yupp 'urban-living' flats?


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## lang rabbie (Dec 8, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Just been pedalling around Brixton taking snaps. What's happening at the Loughborough Hotel? The pub's still open, but there's work going on over the rest of the building.
> 
> Is it - as I fear and suspect - being turned into Yupp 'urban-living' flats?



We had a previous thread on this - no one spotted the planning notices in time.



> Conversion of first, second, third floors and part ground floor and basement into nine self-contained flats, along with associated external alterations; retention of part of ground floor bar and cellar as a public house (Use Class A3).



I think only the front bar gets saved and both of the back function rooms go.


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## editor (Dec 8, 2005)

OK, I've been pedalling around Brixton in the freezing cold today and made a start on the 'Lost Pubs' section: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/lost-pubs.html

Lots more to come!

Input, background, anecdotes etc gratefully received!


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## Ol Nick (Dec 9, 2005)

nick said:
			
		

> Pub on the North side of Acre Lane opposite the Hope & Anchor - I believe that it shut a couple of years ago after one too many firearms incidents.


Duke of Wellington?


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## gaijingirl (Dec 9, 2005)

Ol Nick said:
			
		

> Duke of Wellington?



I used to live right next to that.  They kept having people shooting their guns in there... so they closed it down.  My ex-landlord once had to mop up someone who had been knived in there too...


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## editor (Dec 9, 2005)

Been working hard at this and have now added the Branksome and Black Horse to the main page here: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/lost-pubs.html and a separate page for the Mucky Duck: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/the-crown.html

Most of the research I could find came from these very boards (!) but I could use more help checking the details. Shame hatboy's no longer here really as he was great for this kind of stuff (but... etc etc)

Coming up next: the Green Man and the Warrior!


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## MICKD (Dec 10, 2005)

Gresham Arms, just north of Gresham Road, off Wiltshire Road. Closed about 10 years ago. Converted to flats I think.


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## editor (Dec 10, 2005)

Cheers for that - I'd never heard of it but I'll add it to my list now!

I've now added a work-in-progress page on the Green Man, Loughborough Junction:
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/green-man.html

It's kind of depressing to discover that there's so little information online about these once-vital community pubs - most of the background stuff is coming off these boards!

As ever comments and feedback welcomed!


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## potential (Dec 10, 2005)

the bonn-bonne norwood road ?
does that count.


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## editor (Dec 11, 2005)

Just added a photo of the Duke of Wellington (Acre Lane) to the Lost Pubs section:
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/lost-pubs.html

Anyone know exactly when it closed?

Seeing as I've already got a ton of historic research/photos already up on the site, I'm going to expand the section into 'Lost Brixton' and include lost theatres, gigs etc too...

potential: I've not heard of the bonn-bonne in Norwood road, but I'm looking for boozers in/very close to Brixton.


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## netbob (Dec 11, 2005)

Only a suggestion, but can't you start nailing up some plaques?


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## editor (Dec 12, 2005)

Nice one!


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## pooka (Dec 12, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Just added a photo of the Duke of Wellington (Acre Lane) to the Lost Pubs section:
> http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/lost-pubs.html
> 
> Anyone know exactly when it closed?



July 2003. See here

Edit to add: I don't think there were many locals who mourned the closing of the Wellington, other than in the sense of a nice building being underused. The Hope across the road is rarely full and the Wellington had become a magnate for wannabe gangsters from all over the place, with a penchant for shootings in the street.Gang warfare trio banged up;Armed thugs are caged 

The closure of the Wellington was actually discussed on these boards, with the usual positions adopted.


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## editor (Dec 12, 2005)

pooka said:
			
		

> July 2003. See here


Cheers - I forgot about that!

So much for the "expected to re-open soon" bit in that report....


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## netbob (Dec 12, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Nice one!



Where can we get plaques made/printed?


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## editor (Dec 12, 2005)

memespring said:
			
		

> Where can we get plaques made/printed?


I think I need to finish the section first!!

I'm going to keep on adding/photographing all the closed pubs I can find and then redesign the section to be called, LOST BRIXTON, adding features on the Empress, Brixton Theatre etc.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 12, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Just added a photo of the Duke of Wellington (Acre Lane) to the Lost Pubs section:
> http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/lost-pubs.html
> 
> Anyone know exactly when it closed?
> ...




Think it may be the other side of Brocky towards the Half Moon? (Could be thinking of somewhere else)


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## lang rabbie (Dec 12, 2005)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> Think it may be the other side of Brocky towards the Half Moon? (Could be thinking of somewhere else)



Bon Bonne Night Club - 119-121 Norwood Road, Herne Hill - housed in the strangely genteel surroundings of a stuccoed pair of former villas at the corner with Rosendale Road.




			
				Lambeth Planning website said:
			
		

> Change or use from Nightclub (Class D2) to residential (Class C3) involving the partial demolition of the interior and exterior of the existing buildings and the erection of extensions to create three storey flank buildings toward rear (including the Rosendale Road elevation) with new rear wall to existing listed building creating a courtyard area to rear of site, excavation in basement to increase floor to ceiling height, excavation of lightwells, conversion of existing coach house to residential use and associated interior and exterior works to create 20 self contained reidential units, together with associated alterations, landscaping and nine on site parking spaces.


It was there for thirty years.  Officially a night club, rather than a pub, but a popular drinking location for some Brixtonians.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 12, 2005)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> Bon Bonne Night Club - 119-121 Norwood Road, Herne Hill
> 
> 
> 
> It was there for thirty years.  Officially a night club, rather than a pub, but a popular drinking location for some Brixtonians.




Yeah, I went there a few times - but that was in the late 1980s


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## Giles (Dec 13, 2005)

editor said:
			
		

> Cheers for that - I'd never heard of it but I'll add it to my list now!
> 
> I've now added a work-in-progress page on the Green Man, Loughborough Junction:
> http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/green-man.html
> ...



It's the same developer bought both the Green Man and the Junction / Warrior, isn't it?

I think that the plan is for the Junction to still be a pub eventually, but the ground floor of the Green Man is going to be some other commercial use. Shop maybe, or restaurant?

Giles..


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## editor (Jan 15, 2006)

*Lost cinemas, theatres and pubs..and squats and cafes of Brixton*

I'm slowly getting these new sections together, but it's a ton of work!

Lost pubs of Brixton 

Lost Theatres/Cinemas of Brixton 

Opinions, feedback, additions welcomed!


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## treefrog (Jan 15, 2006)

nice one ed!


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## Orang Utan (Jan 15, 2006)

Interesting - now I know why the Courts in Brighton Terrace/Trinity Gardens are all named after old music hall stars - they must have played at the Empress.
Thanks for that ed!


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## editor (Jan 16, 2006)

Just added new pages to the Lost Cinema section:
The Grand/Pullman, Railton Road, Herne Hill and the Regal/ Granada, Kennington Road....

Also, I've added a long-overdue page on the Hamilton Arms


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## netbob (Jan 16, 2006)

editor said:
			
		

> Just added new pages to the Lost Cinema section:
> The Grand/Pullman, Railton Road, Herne Hill and the Regal/ Granada, Kennington Road....
> 
> Also, I've added a long-overdue page on the Hamilton Arms



Still think you should go for the blue plaques


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## zenie (Jan 16, 2006)

Gaaahhhh you should be The Mayor of Brixton or maybe a blue plaque of your own   

Will look now


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## supercity (Jan 16, 2006)

This info gleaned from darkscreens.co.uk about the old camping shop/cinema now restaurant on Brixton Hill

"101 Brixton Hill, Brixton 	Borough Lambeth
Date: Opened 1911 (as the Brixton Cinematograph Theatre), then Scala, closed 1957. In 1954, as the Clifton, the proprietors are shown as Clifton cinema (Brixton Hill) Ltd, 6 Corporation Street, Birmingham. 998 seats, continuous shows from 1.30pm, Sunday at 4.30pm. Prices 1s 6d to 2s 8d.
.
Also called New Royalty
Part of the Pyke Circuit"

Can't see how they got nearly 1,000 people in there! There is a photo in a book of old cinemas of people queueing to see one of the last shows in the 1950s here, but I've forgotten the name of the book.


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## editor (Jan 16, 2006)

supercity said:
			
		

> Can't see how they got nearly 1,000 people in there! There is a photo in a book of old cinemas of people queueing to see one of the last shows in the 1950s here, but I've forgotten the name of the book.


It used to open out to a big hall at the back which has since been demolished.

It's much the same for Brixton Theatre, which had a tiny entrance where the Ritzy cafe is now.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 16, 2006)

Did anyone find out if the Waggon and Horses on Lyham Road is still shut?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Jan 16, 2006)

Editor

Don't know whether you've seen this:

1881 Census of Inns and Public Houses


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## editor (Jan 16, 2006)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> Editor
> 
> Don't know whether you've seen this:


Yeah, I've been through that document several times! Shame there's not more detail (like when the pub opened, name changes etc)


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## editor (Jan 16, 2006)

In case anyone was wondering what was for sale at Brixton Theatre's bars before the war, here you go!

Carlsberg Pilsner, Jenner's Golden Ale, Charrington 'Toby' Ale and Whiteways Cyders, along with Clayton's 'pure fruit squashes and mineral waters.


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## William of Walworth (Jan 16, 2006)

Fascinating stuff   

The page about the Black Horse (Brixton Road, now used by the Halifax) is mistakenly titled 'The Green Man' once you open the page ...


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## EastEnder (Jan 16, 2006)

It's amazing the difference between the appearance of the Palladium Cinema and it's now incarnation, the Fridge - i.e. it's crap now.

I bet if the original facade had been retained it'd be listed by now.


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## Bob (Jan 16, 2006)

editor said:
			
		

> Just added new pages to the Lost Cinema section:
> The Grand/Pullman, Railton Road, Herne Hill and the Regal/ Granada, Kennington Road....
> 
> Also, I've added a long-overdue page on the Hamilton Arms



The Regal/Grenada was a bingo hall when I first lived in Kennington in the mid 1990s, then had a brief incarnation as an evangelical church (causing serious noise pollution to its sheltered housing residents) then closed. The flats are almost finished now - to be fair to the council/planning people they've kept the character of the outside of the building pretty much the same as it always was. And they've done lots of nice photos of the inside - the building manager seems to be a bit of an architecture buff.


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## lang rabbie (Jan 16, 2006)

See this link  for pictures of the demolition of the interior of the Granada (aka Regal) at Kennington (which I think were taken by the site manager mentioned by Bob)


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## editor (Jan 16, 2006)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> See this link  for pictures of the demolition of the interior of the Granada (aka Regal) at Kennington


<ahem) I'd already linked to that page!

I did find a 1960s pic of the cinema earlier today though.


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## lang rabbie (Jan 16, 2006)

editor said:
			
		

> <ahem) I'd already linked to that page!



Ah, but I reckon you'd never have found it if I hadn't posted a link to it from another forum a year ago  (with even more Google-cred than this one ) and massively increased the ranking of that Mercia page!

BTW - I found these artist's impressions of the new flats


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## DJWrongspeed (Jan 16, 2006)

lang rabbie said:
			
		

> See this link  for pictures of the demolition of the interior of the Granada (aka Regal) at Kennington (which I think were taken by the site manager mentioned by Bob)



interesting to see the inside of that space again.  I had a fairly life changing  late night moment in there.  Let's just say it involved the infamous 'Underground Sound.'


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## editor (Jan 16, 2006)

DJWrongspeed said:
			
		

> interesting to see the inside of that space again.  I had a fairly life changing  late night moment in there.  Let's just say it involved the infamous 'Underground Sound.'


Fancy writing about it for my article?


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## Bob (Jan 16, 2006)

*A yuppie writes*

BTW I think there's no point being grouchy about them being yuppie flats - Kennington these days simply had no chance of sustaining anything like a big venue - I can't quite work out why though given the vast amounts of clubbing etc. in Vauxhall. I suppose it's simply cheaper and less hassle with neighbours to put your club in a railway arch - and there are shedloads of those at Vauxhall. 


Kennington's quite a sad area in a way - one of the lovely old IMHO pubs 'The John Bull' closed there a few years ago and it seems that the poorer bits of the community these days can barely sustain any pubs (about five pubs for the west side of Kennington where around five thousand people live), while the richer people just want restaurants. So all the in between bits have died - virtually all the grocers etc. have gone.


----------



## Bob (Jan 16, 2006)

*Ps*

I notice the artists impression has a white pavement outside the block...


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2006)

Bob said:
			
		

> BTW I think there's no point being grouchy about them being yuppie flats


I can be grouchy if I like!


----------



## editor (Jan 18, 2006)

A minor update: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/lost-cinemas.html


----------



## editor (Jan 18, 2006)

It just keeps on growing!
Lost Cafes 
Lost Squats 

Loads more to add...


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2006)

And now Lost shops and stores! 

I think I'd better stop now!

PS What did Pangaea used to be called?


----------



## Bob (Jan 19, 2006)

editor said:
			
		

> I can be grouchy if I like!



 

(Tickles the editor gently to make him smile)


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2006)

Just updated the Lost Brixton shops  section with an interesting account about Gresham Spares shop being trashed in the riot and a tribute to the tigress of the PO, Mrs Roy.

(scroll to bottom of page)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Mar 12, 2008)

Are the Chestnut and Hop Poles in Tulse Hill here?

What about The Clockhouse in Acre Lane?


----------



## lunatrick (Mar 12, 2008)

bit of long shot this - but does anybody remember a squatted house in sudbourne road? I stayed there for a while in 1988...and I often wondered how long the main tenants stayed.....they were a couple - the woman was aussie and they had one of those gpo vans (I think)


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## Tricky Skills (Mar 12, 2008)

Kelly's along Clapham Road (formally Dorset Arms) looks like it has pulled its last pint. Sad to see another local boozer go, but in its most recent crappy karaoke form, I can't say I'll miss it.

The asking price is £1,300,000. Fancy a whip round? Looks like it will go the way of 'property investment.' 

Straying slightly, but has anyone seen the wonderful art installation (don't laugh) that has transformed the derelict William the IV along Albany Road in Walworth? Haven't got any pictures yet, but it's been camouflaged with a huge taupalin and painted green to blend in with Burgess Park. Local schools were involved as part of an art project. Not sure what the future is for the old place, but it was looking a sorry state before as crack den central.


----------



## Bob (Mar 12, 2008)

Tricky Skills said:


> Kelly's along Clapham Road (formally Dorset Arms) looks like it has pulled its last pint. Sad to see another local boozer go, but in its most recent crappy karaoke form, I can't say I'll miss it.
> 
> The asking price is £1,300,000. Fancy a whip round? Looks like it will go the way of 'property investment.'
> 
> Straying slightly, but has anyone seen the wonderful art installation (don't laugh) that has transformed the derelict William the IV along Albany Road in Walworth? Haven't got any pictures yet, but it's been camouflaged with a huge taupalin and painted green to blend in with Burgess Park. Local schools were involved as part of an art project. Not sure what the future is for the old place, but it was looking a sorry state before as crack den central.



That leaves very few pubs indeed in the Stockwell / Brixton Road area. There are close to none now between South Lambeth road and Brixton road aren't there?


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## knatchbull (Mar 12, 2008)

Bob said:


> That leaves very few pubs indeed in the Stockwell / Brixton Road area. There are close to none now between South Lambeth road and Brixton road aren't there?



There are one or two around Albert Square - the Canton Arms on South Lambeth Road, Royal Albert on St Stephens Terrace, also two towards Oval tube: Roebuck on Ashmole Street and Fentiman Arms on Fentiman Road plus of course the ones near Oval tube station. A mixture of done up made trendy establishments and more traditional pubs. I used to live on Fentiman Road so have happy memories of all...


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## zenie (Mar 12, 2008)

Tricky Skills said:


> Kelly's along Clapham Road (formally Dorset Arms) looks like it has pulled its last pint. Sad to see another local boozer go, but in its most recent crappy karaoke form, I can't say I'll miss it.
> 
> The asking price is £1,300,000. Fancy a whip round? Looks like it will go the way of 'property investment.'
> 
> Straying slightly, but has anyone seen the wonderful art installation (don't laugh) that has transformed the derelict William the IV along Albany Road in Walworth? Haven't got any pictures yet, but it's been camouflaged with a huge taupalin and painted green to blend in with Burgess Park. Local schools were involved as part of an art project. Not sure what the future is for the old place, but it was looking a sorry state before as crack den central.


 

Fuckin hell we only wen tin there before Christmas! Don't go towards the stockwell end of Oval much but that's sad 

I'd been wondering about the William IV actually, go down Albany Road quite a bit. Has the council said what it'll be turned into?


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## El Jefe (Mar 12, 2008)

editor said:


> PS What did Pangaea used to be called?



Taco Joe's?


----------



## boohoo (Mar 12, 2008)

zenie said:


> the stockwell end of Oval




The Oval end of Stockwell!!!


----------



## Tricky Skills (Mar 12, 2008)

Yeah, there's nothing now between the Memorial Gardens and The Oval tube. There's a few Porto bars along Lansdowne Way, but they're more cafes than boozers.

The Royal Albert has lost it in my opinion over the past couple of years. There was a decent garden, but that's now overgrowing with weeds. The Fentiman Arms is alright if you go in with your copy of The Guardian and expect a meal rather than just a drink. The Canton is fine, although business has looked bleak in recent months.

The two boozers towards around The Oval tube seem to have more people smoking outside then people socialising in the pub.

I can't say I'll mourn Kelly's. It was crap. But I'd rather see a boozer than more over-priced housing. I think it will be interesting to see how this stretch of Clapham Road changes in the next 18 months. The conversion of the Freeman's flats is already underway.


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## zenie (Mar 12, 2008)

boohoo said:


> The Oval end of Stockwell!!!


 
Strockwell end of Kennington then


----------



## El Jefe (Mar 12, 2008)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Royal Albert has lost it in my opinion over the past couple of years. There was a decent garden, but that's now overgrowing with weeds..



Yeh, was my local for years and it has its ups and downs, but at the moment is VERY down.


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## knatchbull (Mar 12, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> Yeh, was my local for years and it has its ups and downs, but at the moment is VERY down.



I think they destroyed a fundamentally good pub when they converted/ built the flats on top. 

The garden used to be the best thing about the place in summer

 I have happy memories of the late nights they used to run (in about 2005 or so) until 1am on Fridays when they would start handing round small glasses of random cocktails. Always a pleasure at the time but a source of regret in the morning!


----------



## Tricky Skills (Mar 12, 2008)

Remember the beach volleyball from around that period? Sounded wanky, but it actually worked rather well. The only sport you see in there now is wall-to-wall football. Which although I like, it's not as if you can't watch Bolton away in the UEFA Cup anywhere else. It's not a local anymore.


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## co-op (Mar 13, 2008)

Really sad about the Royal Albert, for years it was the best pub in Stockwell by a mile and nicely tucked away so a bit of a find. It had been pretty up and down for a while I think, but selling off the old pool room for flats and the stupid 'posh', New York cocktail bar style conversion job that was all done about 3 years ago really screwed it imo.

Does anyone go back to the early 90s with the Albert? Days of Fergie & Trish (the glaswegian couple)? Or even earlier, mad Shirley - when the pub still had two bars, public bar off to the right when you came in (which was why there was the gents loo off that way), lounge bar to the left. Watching Shirley - a tad overweight I think anyone would admit - tottering down Bolney Street on a pair of towering stilettos yelling "you're fucking barred!" at a retreating barred punter and hurling a plastic ashtray after the said barred punter is one of my first memories of that pub.

She ended up working at the Canterbury - I saw her there a couple of years later.


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## William of Walworth (Mar 13, 2008)

*Just 7 mins down the road from me!*



Tricky Skills said:


> Straying slightly, but has anyone seen the wonderful art installation (don't laugh) that has transformed the derelict William the IV along Albany Road in Walworth? Haven't got any pictures yet, but it's been camouflaged with a huge taupalin and painted green to blend in with Burgess Park. Local schools were involved as part of an art project. Not sure what the future is for the old place, but it was looking a sorry state before as crack den central.



Please post your pix! I've got some myself, but they're not online ... 

It's well worth a look that one people, really impressive. Still standing as Public Art for now ...


----------



## Onket (Mar 13, 2008)

I reckon it's the cost of a fucking pint that has damaged a lot of these places.

So much cheaper to drink at home. Or in a park.


----------



## co-op (Mar 13, 2008)

Onket said:


> I reckon it's the cost of a fucking pint that has damaged a lot of these places.
> 
> So much cheaper to drink at home. Or in a park.



Totally agree. I saw proper Becks in bottles at (I think, from memory) about 38p each advertised the other day. Admittedly that was by the case, but that's way cheap - not sure about my conversions but well under a pound a pint. And that's for a good quality lager that isn't full of whatever shite they put in the ghastly stuff on draft in pubs. Almost the same bottles are ? £3 in a pub or even a cheaper club, that's 7 or 8 times more expensive ....ridiculous.


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## zenie (Mar 13, 2008)

Onket said:


> I reckon it's the cost of a fucking pint that has damaged a lot of these places.
> 
> So much cheaper to drink at home. Or in a park.


 
Mation ordered one of those Copperburg's (sp?) the other night in the dog house, it was £3.60


----------



## boohoo (Mar 13, 2008)

Onket said:


> So much cheaper to drink at home. Or in a park.



Can you drink in the parks anymore?


----------



## Onket (Mar 13, 2008)

It varies. I do though.


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## boohoo (Mar 13, 2008)

Onket said:


> It varies. I do though.



on a bench with a can of special brew and some new found friends?


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## William of Walworth (Mar 13, 2008)

Well it's all about to go up by at least** 4p a pint from Sunday or Monday ... 

**To say _the_ least -- breweries and pubcos will add their 'budget excuse' cut 

Top tip for cheapest in-pub drinking :

1. Avoid poncy 'bars'
2 Go for ale-friendly pubs -- bitter, ale, proper beer etc. is cheaper than Guinness, cider, skanky chemical industrial production line 'lager' , etc. Not just my CMAR head saying this, it's empirically true -- usually.

Agree that London pubs are ever more pricey generally though ...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 10, 2008)

editor said:


> After I was reminded of my abandoned project to snap closed pubs in Brixton, I'd be grateful if peeps could list any closed pubs in and around their Brixton 'hood (incl the full address) and I'll go around on my bike and snap them all for a "those we have loved and lost" ( © Donna) 'closed pub' section on the site.
> 
> These are the ones I've photographed so far:
> 
> ...


 


I've noticed you have the King of Sardines as being in Streatham Hill.  It is off BRIXTON Hill


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 10, 2008)

I cycled from Brixton to Greenwich the other week, through Peckham and Deptford etc. I must have seen over 20 closed pubs on my journey..


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## DJWrongspeed (Apr 10, 2008)

Giles said:


> It's the same developer bought both the Green Man and the Junction / Warrior, isn't it?
> 
> I think that the plan is for the Junction to still be a pub eventually, but the ground floor of the Green Man is going to be some other commercial use. Shop maybe, or restaurant?
> 
> Giles..



it's a joke coz they've been made residential properties no-one wants to take them on as any kinda bar/restaurant.

It's a nationwide problem. I'm lucky that my local the Elm Park is still going


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## ricbake (Apr 10, 2008)

In the Kennington / Camberwell section
- The Alderman - Stannary Street
- Prince of Denmark - Denmark Road
- Cheeky Chappy - Vassal Road


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## Giles (Apr 10, 2008)

DJWrongspeed said:


> it's a joke coz they've been made residential properties no-one wants to take them on as any kinda bar/restaurant.
> 
> It's a nationwide problem. I'm lucky that my local the Elm Park is still going




I know. It really irritates me that councils allow planning permish for these schemes through. 

There is a PPG about not losing pubs, so if someone bought a rundown old pub and actually applied to make it into flats, the council would be pretty much obliged to say "no". But: they can apply to make all of it except the ground floor into flats, and say they will keep the pub bit as a pub or restaurant or similar.

Then two years later, they've renovated, built and either sold/let the flats, and surprise, surprise, no-one wants to rent a "pub" with: no managers accommodation, no staff accommodation, no possibility for a late licence or live music / DJs because of people living right above it, etc.

Then they go back to the council and say "look we've been trying to rent this as a pub, but there are no takers, can we make it into a shop instead? Or even another flat? The council then say yes....

Its bollocks.

They've just started building work on a big old corner pub near me in Kilburn, and I hope the property crash f***s their economics.

I actually thought about buying the "Junction" although the building was, according to some friends who also seriously looked at it, falling to bits.

I wouldn't have turned it into flats.

Giles..


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## bluestreak (Apr 10, 2008)

Quite a bump, and a depressing list.


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## Tricky Skills (Apr 17, 2008)

The William IV on Albany Road has a future!  Not as a boozer, but as a 'juice bar' for Yoof.

More over HERE.


----------



## clandestino (Apr 17, 2008)

The pub on the corner of Lyham Road and Crescent Lane, opposite the old Duke Of Cornwall, is being torn down right now. That's fast work - I walked past it less than a fortnight ago, and it was still open for business.


----------



## innit (Apr 17, 2008)

The Royal Oak?  That's a shame 

That must mean the Prince of Wales is the only pub left on the street, iirc. 

Waggon & Horses - appears to be in use as an artist's studio
Prince of Wales - still infested by old men 
Royal Oak - being pulled down
Duke of Cornwall (flats, not so good akshully, we looked at a couple and they were incredibly poky)

Only one pub left out of (at least) 4.


----------



## boohoo (Apr 19, 2008)

The Lyham Road pub being demolished this morning - looks like it was a fairly old building?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 19, 2008)

innit said:


> The Royal Oak? That's a shame
> 
> That must mean the Prince of Wales is the only pub left on the street, iirc.
> 
> ...


 


That's outrageous and so fucking sad  

So where's the next nearest pub for locals to drink in?


----------



## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

The Prince of Wales on Lyham Rd is still open as far as I know - other than that, the nearest would be Windmill / Hand in Hand / Sultan / Telegraph.

An eclectic selection


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2008)

boohoo said:


> The Lyham Road pub being demolished this morning - looks like it was a fairly old building?


That's awful. Do you mind if I use that pic for the lost pubs of Brixton feature? Was the name of this boozer the Royal Oak?


----------



## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

Have just remembered that there was originally 5 pubs on the street - one was being used as a restaurant but then closed down.   It's been posted about in the past, but I can't remember the name of the restaurant and I don't know the name of the original pub.

So of 5 pubs, only one remains


----------



## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

editor said:


> That's awful. Do you mind if I use that pic for the lost pubs of Brixton feature? Was the name of this boozer the Royal Oak?



I just checked, looks like it was indeed the Royal Oak

link with pic

ETA you've already got the 5th on your lost pubs page - the Red Lion.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Apr 20, 2008)

It just seems to have closed suddenly and then the demolition crew arrived within a matter of weeks.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

innit said:


> The Prince of Wales on Lyham Rd is still open as far as I know - other than that, the nearest would be Windmill / Hand in Hand / Sultan / Telegraph.
> 
> An eclectic selection


 

I meant near near.  There's a lot of old people who lost their drinking hole when the White Horse became yuppified.  They didn't want to drink in The Windy as it was down a dark street, and The Hope was the nearest.

Soon elderly people will have nowhere left to drink because pubs will be either too far, or be music pubs or be full of yuppies


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2008)

I've just been up there to take some photos. Expect them online soon!


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## ovaltina (Apr 20, 2008)

I can't really get nostalgic about this one! I used to live very, very close to it and it was a dump of a place, with little plastic george cross flags hanging off the fascia. You'd get people staring at you as you walked past.

It was scary looking, and I never went inside. The pub across the road, which is now a block of flats, looks like it was a more interesting building.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

ovaltina said:


> I can't really get nostalgic about this one! I used to live very, very close to it and it was a dump of a place, with little plastic george cross flags hanging off the fascia. You'd get people staring at you as you walked past.
> 
> It was scary looking, and I never went inside. The pub across the road, which is now a block of flats, looks like it was a more interesting building.


 

Well lots of pubs are like that, especially "regulars" type of pubs.  Just because you can't get nostalgic doesn't mean it's not a loss for someone.  Would agree that most of the pubs up there were shitholes (especially the ones frequented by screws) but they're still someone's local which they may have been going to for decades


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2008)

I have to say that the only pub still open on the road - The Prince of Wales, complete with large, permanent-looking St George flags outside - didn't look like the friendliest boozer I'd ever seen. I'm guessing that it's used by a lot of the security staff from the prison...


----------



## ovaltina (Apr 20, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Well lots of pubs are like that, especially "regulars" type of pubs.  Just because you can't get nostalgic doesn't mean it's not a loss for someone.  Would agree that most of the pubs up there were shitholes (especially the ones frequented by screws) but they're still someone's local which they may have been going to for decades



Yeah I suppose... maybe I'm a snob...


----------



## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I meant near near.



Well, the Prince of Wales is 2 minutes walk away (maybe 5 for someone with mobility problems)

Personally I'd class that and the Hand in Hand as being near near (certainly as near as I am to my nearest pub)


----------



## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

editor said:


> I have to say that the only pub still open on the road - The Prince of Wales, complete with large, permanent-looking St George flags outside - didn't look like the friendliest boozer I'd ever seen. I'm guessing that it's used by a lot of the security staff from the prison...



I went in there once with gaijingirl, han and PieEye (maybe a few other peeps as well, eme might even have been there)

Everyone else said they liked it but I thought it was a bit of an unfriendly hole.

Still, the regulars seemed to be having a whale of a time.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

editor said:


> I have to say that the only pub still open on the road - The Prince of Wales, complete with large, permanent-looking St George flags outside - didn't look like the friendliest boozer I'd ever seen. I'm guessing that it's used by a lot of the security staff from the prison...


 
They used to use the Red Lion and they've got their own pub, but as the Red Lion's no longer there, then if they're drinking there, definitely not a pub I'd go in


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

innit said:


> Well, the Prince of Wales is 2 minutes walk away (maybe 5 for someone with mobility problems)
> 
> Personally I'd class that and the Hand in Hand as being near near (certainly as near as I am to my nearest pub)


 

well at least the Hand in Hand is a quieter pub, compared to The Sultan


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

ovaltina said:


> Yeah I suppose... maybe I'm a snob...


 

*cough cough*

A lot of these "regular regular" pubs are suspicious of new people.  They think they're cops


----------



## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Soon elderly people will have nowhere left to drink because pubs will be either too far, or be music pubs or be full of yuppies



I do agree that's tragic 

It's hard to imagine how one street could ever have sustained 5 pubs though!  I guess they weren't expected to really make much profit in those days - just make a living for their landlord.

It's a real mark of social change too, in that I guess lots of men would have spent a lot of their evenings in the pub (or at least a few hours before going home).


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

innit said:


> I do agree that's tragic
> 
> It's hard to imagine how one street could ever have sustained 5 pubs though! I guess they weren't expected to really make much profit in those days - just make a living for their landlord.
> 
> It's a real mark of social change too, in that I guess lots of men would have spent a lot of their evenings in the pub (or at least a few hours before going home).


 

I don't really know what they used to be like as I didn't drink in them myself, but no doubt it was a few regulars that kept most places heads above water - just about 

I'm not sure where I'd go drinking now if my local were to close


----------



## boohoo (Apr 20, 2008)

editor said:


> That's awful. Do you mind if I use that pic for the lost pubs of Brixton feature? Was the name of this boozer the Royal Oak?



Happy for you to use the photo. I took it at about 11 in the morning so I'd be interested to see how much has been demolished since then!


----------



## boohoo (Apr 20, 2008)

i hate seeing nice old buildings with character demolished. Recent visits to Hackney have shocked me because there is so much new build going on around there (which tends to mean nice Victorian house come down and dull modern ones go up!)


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2008)

Some photos:






















More here: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/royal-oak-sw2.html


----------



## El Jefe (Apr 20, 2008)

I used to drink in the Hand and the Sultan when i lived in Kingswood Road about 15 years ago and they were both really dodgy, especially the Hand. But now the Hand is my local, it's a great pub and a great mix of people, a good mix of newish customers and locals and everyone seems to know each other and get on really well.. The Sultan can still be a bit lairy late on the weekends


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> I used to drink in the Hand and the Sultan when i lived in Kingswood Road about 15 years ago and they were both really dodgy, especially the Hand. But now the Hand is my local, it's a great pub and a great mix of people, a good mix of newish customers and locals and everyone seems to know each other and get on really well.. The Sultan can still be a bit lairy late on the weekends


 

How do you know they're not STILL dodgy, but you just don't notice it now because you've been accepted as a regular?

I'd love to know who tiled the Hand in Hand.  Must be the best tiled pub loos I've ever seen in Brixton


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

editor said:


> Some photos:
> 
> More here: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/royal-oak-sw2.html


 

Why didn't you do the rest of the closed pubs of Lyham Road while you were there?  Just curious


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2008)

I did, but give me time! Lumme.


----------



## El Jefe (Apr 20, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> How do you know they're not STILL dodgy, but you just don't notice it now because you've been accepted as a regular?



that's bollocks, you know 

I know what a dodgy pub with a tinge of BNP-ness and nastiness feels like, and has nothing to do with being a regular or otherwise


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

editor said:


> I did, but give me time! Lumme.


 

Sorry.   

I'll forgive you


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> that's bollocks, you know
> 
> I know what a dodgy pub with a tinge of BNP-ness and nastiness feels like, and has nothing to do with being a regular or otherwise


 

I'm not talking about BNP pubs.  There's lots of other dodgy characters in pubs 

But if you want to talk about BNP pubs, I can guarantee you that 20 years ago, the Elm Park was NOT the most welcoming pubs and definitely had a whiff of National Front to it.  

Luckily things have changed for the better in there (barring the decor)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> that's bollocks, you know
> 
> I know what a dodgy pub with a tinge of BNP-ness and nastiness feels like, and has nothing to do with being a regular or otherwise


 

Hand and Sultan are fine and we used to regularly drink in them, but as I don't get up that way much now....


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2008)

The Waggon and Horses, Lyham Road:













More: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/waggon-and-horses-sw2.html


----------



## El Jefe (Apr 20, 2008)

Well i WAS talking about BNP pubs. Dodgy characters are fine 

And the Elm Park - sure you don't mean longer ago than 20 years? I started drinking there about 1990 and was fine then..


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

El Jefe said:


> Well i WAS talking about BNP pubs. Dodgy characters are fine
> 
> And the Elm Park - sure you don't mean longer ago than 20 years? I started drinking there about 1990 and was fine then..


 

Well 1990 is only 18 years 

I moved into Elm Park in 1985.  The back room where the loos are was definitely not a welcoming place to go, but I persevered.   I like a challenge


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 20, 2008)

editor said:


> The Waggon and Horses, Lyham Road:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
That was a bit of a rough pub


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2008)

I've added some more pics of the DUKE OF WELLINGTON on Acre Lane. That's still boarded up after over two years. There's been some parties going on there though.














http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/duke-of-wellington.html


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2008)

My closed pubs page is growing at an alarming rate. Here's the Duke of Cornwall, 89, Lyham Rd:








I haven't managed to trace any archive photos yet.

http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/duke-of-cornwall.html

Would I be right in assuming that the Red Lion was a small pub in a long row of houses?


----------



## lang rabbie (Apr 20, 2008)

editor said:


> Would I be right in assuming that the Red Lion was a small pub in a long row of houses?



It looked even smaller as it had a single storey frontage with a vaguely 1930s look and the upper floor had the appearance of a slated attic. 

I think in the conversion to flats the whole front is being rebuilt.

(Some very vague drawings on the planning website)


----------



## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

The Red Lion doesn't look like a typical pub building and the fascia was painted as a restaurant (lime green, called something like number 1).


----------



## editor (Apr 20, 2008)

lang rabbie said:


> (Some very vague drawings on the planning website)


I couldn't find any drawings on that dreadful site, but here's how the pub looks today (if the road number was correct - this is number 191):















http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/red-lion-lyham-road.html


If anyone's got any stories or memories about these lost boozers, post them up here and I'll add them to the features. It's really quite depressing how many are being lost.

If there was a 'at risk' list, I'd have to say that the Elm Park Tavern must be a candidate. I hope not though. It's a nice old school boozer.


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## boohoo (Apr 20, 2008)

editor said:


> I couldn't find any drawings on that dreadful site, but here's how the pub looks today (if the road number was correct - this is number 191):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's a horrible frontage - I was up that way last year and don't remember it looking like that...


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## editor (Apr 20, 2008)

boohoo said:


> That's a horrible frontage - I was up that way last year and don't remember it looking like that...


I double checked because it looked unlikely but that's definitely number 191 and there was nothing else pub-like around.


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## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

That's not what it looked like - it was white and almost looked like weatherboarding.  That brick frontage must be new


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 21, 2008)

innit said:


> That's not what it looked like - it was white and almost looked like weatherboarding. That brick frontage must be new


 

It was definitely a very tiny little pub and htat's definitely new frontage if that picture is it.


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## editor (Apr 21, 2008)

It looks like it's been completely rebuilt using old bricks. 

I guess they needed to maximise the space and so got rid of its distinctive earlier appearance. Has anyone got any pics of these pubs when they were open?


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## Yetman (Apr 21, 2008)

40+ pubs are being closed in the UK every week due to the smoking ban


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 21, 2008)

Sorry, don't have any pictures as never frequented them.

However, I have discovered that The Red Lion was on the 1881 census, not that that's any help but it gives you an idea of how long it had been there


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 21, 2008)

and found this planning application which was obviously approved



> Conversion of Public House (use Class A4) into 2 x 2 self contained flats and building up of front facade and re-configuration of front fenestration.


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## editor (Apr 21, 2008)

Yetman said:


> 40+ pubs are being closed in the UK every week due to the smoking ban


I think you'll find pubs were closing long before the smoking ban. In fact, most of the pubs featured here closed long before the ban was introduced.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 21, 2008)

Have found some pictures on a pub website

Royal Oak






Duke of Cornwall


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## Bob (Apr 21, 2008)

editor said:


> I think you'll find pubs were closing long before the smoking ban. In fact, most of the pubs featured here closed long before the ban was introduced.



I heard somebody senior at Guinness describe their long term decline in Ireland with roughly these words:

"Most men used to go down to the pub and drink 3 or 4 pints of Guinness, 4 or 5 nights a week. Now they're drinking one or two pints of Guinness once or twice a week'.

It strikes me that this long term decline in the amount that people drink at the pub (probably driven by the fact that far more people have non manual jobs than 50 years ago) and drinking less often (not least because fathers spend far more time with their kids than even 20 years ago) is probably driving this.

So, sad though these pubs closing is, I can't see anything stopping it.


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## editor (Apr 21, 2008)

Bob said:


> It strikes me that this long term decline in the amount that people drink at the pub (probably driven by the fact that far more people have non manual jobs than 50 years ago) and drinking less often (not least because fathers spend far more time with their kids than even 20 years ago) is probably driving this.


It's also to do with the fact that people can now buy dirt cheap booze from supermarkets and they're spoilt for choice when it comes to alternative home entertainment.

In the old days, if you didn't like what was on the telly, you'd go to the pub. Now you can get plastered at home for bugger all and watch DVDs/play games/go on the Internet etc etc...


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## innit (Apr 21, 2008)

Although in many ways I'm sure pub culture has changed for the better (wouldn't have fancied the days when women couldn't go in), pub buildings, furniture (bars, mirrors &c) and culture is a massive part of English cultural heritage, which is why I don't feel good about irreversible changes being made.  If a pub's converted to a bar or a shop, it can always go back again.  If the fascia is knocked down and a house front built, it's gone forever (particularly sad for the Red Lion as the architecture looked to be a bit unusual).


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 21, 2008)

innit said:


> (wouldn't have fancied the days when women couldn't go in),


 

when was that then?


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## Yetman (Apr 21, 2008)

editor said:


> I think you'll find pubs were closing long before the smoking ban. In fact, most of the pubs featured here closed long before the ban was introduced.



Ah fair enough, I was just speaking to a local landlord as he was lugging his stuff into a van the other day to leave his pub as it wasnt making enough money and he blamed the smoking ban. Tbh his pub did seem much emptier after it though....


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## boohoo (Apr 21, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Have found some pictures on a pub website
> 
> Royal Oak



That looks like a nice early to mid Victorian pub... 

The swift pulling down of the building makes me thing that the owners wanted to go unchallenged about pulling down a rather lovely structure.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 21, 2008)

boohoo said:


> That looks like a nice early to mid Victorian pub...
> 
> The swift pulling down of the building makes me thing that the owners wanted to go unchallenged about pulling down a rather lovely structure.


 

No idea how old that one is, but was definitely around during WWII.

As I mentioned earlier, I've seen the Red Lion listed in 1881 census


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## Bob (Apr 21, 2008)

innit said:


> Although in many ways I'm sure pub culture has changed for the better (wouldn't have fancied the days when women couldn't go in), pub buildings, furniture (bars, mirrors &c) and culture is a massive part of English cultural heritage, which is why I don't feel good about irreversible changes being made.  If a pub's converted to a bar or a shop, it can always go back again.  If the fascia is knocked down and a house front built, it's gone forever (particularly sad for the Red Lion as the architecture looked to be a bit unusual).



Absolutely right on the heritage bit. A reasonable number of the rennovations going on around here seem to be keeping the original fittings but simply updating the overall look.

The problem really seems to be when the pub is simply stripped and converted into flats...


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 21, 2008)

Bob said:


> Absolutely right on the heritage bit. A reasonable number of the rennovations going on around here seem to be keeping the original fittings but simply updating the overall look.
> 
> The problem really seems to be when the pub is simply stripped and converted into flats...


 

Like the Red Lion, which was probably the oldest pub in that street if it was in the 1881 census


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## innit (Apr 21, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> when was that then?



I can think of pubs now where heads would turn if a couple of women went in without a man in tow!


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## innit (Apr 21, 2008)

Bob said:


> Absolutely right on the heritage bit. A reasonable number of the rennovations going on around here seem to be keeping the original fittings but simply updating the overall look.
> 
> The problem really seems to be when the pub is simply stripped and converted into flats...



Yes - and although I know they can't all be preserved as pub museums (that would be so cool though), as previously said on this thread, the rate of conversion is incredibly fast paced - do you know if planning permission takes these considerations into account at all?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 21, 2008)

innit said:


> I can think of pubs now where heads would turn if a couple of women went in without a man in tow!


 


It wouldn't stop me going in them


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## editor (Apr 23, 2008)

Here's another: The George, Railton Road. Harmony (ex Mingles) now stands on the site.








http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/george-railton-road.html


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 23, 2008)

editor said:


> Here's another: The George, Railton Road. Harmony (ex Mingles) now stands on the site.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Funnily enough, I heard a story about that the other day.  Apparently it was the last pub in Brixton to allow blacks to drink there.  Don't know how true that is though


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## innit (Apr 23, 2008)

looks like it was a beautiful pub, what a great photo.


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## editor (Apr 23, 2008)

*Note: two threads merged.


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## editor (Apr 23, 2008)

And another one - the Windsor Castle which bit the dust during the 1981 riots.








http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/windsor-castle.html

Considering how big a part pubs played in their local communities, it's strange how little there recorded information is available on the web (and I guess most of the people who used these pubs are unlikely to be busy archiving their photos and memories on websites).


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 23, 2008)

editor said:


> And another one - the Windsor Castle which bit the dust during the 1981 riots.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 

Well photography cost a lot more in days of old so people tended to take pictures of holidays, families etc. not pubs


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## editor (Apr 23, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Well photography cost a lot more in days of old so people tended to take pictures of holidays, families etc. not pubs


I'm not so sure - pubs were a social hub with people celebrating births, birthdays, marriages - and having wakes - in pubs.

I've got quite a few photos taken in pubs from when I was a kid.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 23, 2008)

editor said:


> I'm not so sure - pubs were a social hub with people celebrating births, birthdays, marriages - and having wakes - in pubs.
> 
> I've got quite a few photos taken in pubs from when I was a kid.


 

Very true, but then there's likely to be more pictures of people INSIDE pubs.

Anyway, what were you doing in pubs when you were a kid?


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## editor (Apr 23, 2008)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Very true, but then there's likely to be more pictures of people INSIDE pubs.


I've been looking for photos of the inside of pubs too.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Apr 23, 2008)

editor said:


> I've been looking for photos of the inside of pubs too.


 

I came across pictures from insides of pubs before and couldn't remember who the people were or even what pub it was and chucked them


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## Bob (Apr 23, 2008)

editor said:


> I'm not so sure - pubs were a social hub with people celebrating births, birthdays, marriages - and having wakes - in pubs.
> 
> I've got quite a few photos taken in pubs from when I was a kid.



Yup - but the people who took them will be quite old now.

Age is by far the biggest influence on whether you use the internet. Among teenagers internet use is close to 100%, while it's only something like 30% for the over 65s....


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## boohoo (Apr 24, 2008)

editor said:


> Considering how big a part pubs played in their local communities, it's strange how little there recorded information is available on the web (and I guess most of the people who used these pubs are unlikely to be busy archiving their photos and memories on websites).



I went to the lambeth archives to ask about murals and also asked what they had about squats in Brixton area and they had bugger all. In fact urban has more information about squats than the archives. Considering that alternative scene has been an essential part of Brixton for many years, it is sad that it is missing in the archives.


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## editor (Apr 24, 2008)

boohoo said:


> In fact urban has more information about squats than the archives. Considering that alternative scene has been an essential part of Brixton for many years, it is sad that it is missing in the archives.


That's what driven me to add a lot of the articles in the Brixton section. Cooltan/121 etc were a big part of Brixton's social history and  there's very little out there.


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## ovaltina (Apr 24, 2008)

boohoo said:


> Imurals QUOTE]
> 
> There's quite a nice end-of-terrace one on a building near where the Royal Oak used to be on Lyham Rd. You can see it from the windmill estate's car park.


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## editor (Apr 29, 2008)

I've decided to get a bit more proactive and have now added a 'How To Save Your Local Pub' guide:
http://www.urban75.org/info/save-your-pub.html

Hopefully it'll be of use to some folks.


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## Bob (Apr 29, 2008)

editor said:


> I've decided to get a bit more proactive and have now added a 'How To Save Your Local Pub' guide:
> http://www.urban75.org/info/save-your-pub.html
> 
> Hopefully it'll be of use to some folks.



That's a great little guide. 

Might be worth adding Memespring's planning applications tracker:
www.planningalerts.com


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## editor (Apr 29, 2008)

Bob said:


> That's a great little guide.
> 
> Might be worth adding Memespring's planning applications tracker:
> www.planningalerts.com


Good call! Added.


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## boohoo (Jan 13, 2009)

Whilst busy researching my walk I noticed there isn't any info in the Lost pb section on the now destroyed brewery Tap pub - Stockwell's only gay bar  - name associated with Hamerton Brewery. Here's a photo from interet before it got demolished. Nice looking pub as well... currently an empty plot.






Another brewery in stockwell was the Waltham brewery  - building demolished in the 1990s although was suggested that is should have been kept! The brewery is the building right at the very left of this picture of stockwell green when a green. Like the Hammerton brewery it too had wells in the back garden.


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## Bob (Jan 14, 2009)

That (the pub) was there until quite recently wasn't it? I remember seeing it a year or two back.


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## boohoo (Jan 14, 2009)

Bob said:


> That (the pub) was there until quite recently wasn't it? I remember seeing it a year or two back.



Yep - it's been gone for maybe two years?


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## editor (Jan 14, 2009)

It's shame so many fantastic old buildings have been demolished and, inevitably, replaced by some cheap old shite that will be lucky to last 50 years.


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## editor (Aug 23, 2013)

I've added a short piece about the Lord Stanley. Still haven't managed to find any photos of the old building yet though.

http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/lord-stanley-hinton-road-se24.html


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## wainui (Aug 23, 2013)

I found this photo on Flikr sometime ago of the Lord Stanley featuring a Charabanc trip from 1923, credit to the original poster.


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## Rich_G76 (Aug 23, 2013)

great photo above, having moved in to the area i have been trying to find more info on the Hammerton brewery stockwell, did it stand opposite the hammerton hall, found this pic on here but cant work out where it stood.
http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/hammerton-brewery.html


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## boohoo (Aug 23, 2013)

Rich_G76 said:


> great photo above, having moved in to the area i have been trying to find more info on the Hammerton brewery stockwell, did it stand opposite the hammerton hall, found this pic on here but cant work out where it stood.
> http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/hammerton-brewery.html


 
It was next to Hammerton hall where all the new builds are. There use to be a pub called the Brewery Tap behind it which my dad has a drawing of on his wall. This area was the site of some of the wells.


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## Rich_G76 (Aug 23, 2013)

thanks, shame the building has been demolished. I  belive that the old church now the mosque has a well in the the grounds also,


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## boohoo (Aug 23, 2013)

The old church you refer to is actually the younger of the two churches with St Andrews being the oldest. It has a rather ugly render/re-work bestowed on it by enthusiast Victorians marking it's 100th anniversary. It's currently under threat - not from demolition but possible change of use due to the fact that it is  in such a bad state of repair.


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## Rich_G76 (Aug 23, 2013)

yes the clock tower on st Andrews aint in the best shape,  i love the massive circular window  on the main hall bit though.


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## editor (Nov 9, 2016)

Updated piece on the Lord Stanley







Lost pubs: The Lord Stanley on Hinton Road, Herne Hill


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## CH1 (Nov 9, 2016)

editor said:


> Updated piece on the Lord Stanley
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nobody ever mentions the parrot (or macaw). I only went in once or twice but the vocally active bird was a well known feature back then (late 1980s)


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## Puddy_Tat (Nov 9, 2016)

editor said:


> Updated piece on the Lord Stanley


 
by coincidence, this was from someone i follow on flickr today


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## editor (Nov 9, 2016)

I'm now working on a piece about the long lost Gresham Arms. For ages I thought it would have been on Gresham Road but I've now discovered that it was in Fyfield Road and I've actually taken pictures of the place. There were several reports of ghostly goings on at the pub in late Victorian times. I haven't managed to track down any archive photos of the pub or work out exactly when it closed (some time in the early 80s is my best guess so far).  Anyone got any more detail?


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## sealion (Nov 10, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm now working on a piece about the long lost Gresham Arms. For ages I thought it would have been on Gresham Road but I've now discovered that it was in Fyfield Road and I've actually taken pictures of the place. There were several reports of ghostly goings on at the pub in late Victorian times. I haven't managed to track down any archive photos of the pub or work out exactly when it closed (some time in the early 80s is my best guess so far).  Anyone got any more detail?


I think it closed in the mid to late seventies. I will ask my uncle when we next speak.


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## CH1 (Nov 11, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm now working on a piece about the long lost Gresham Arms. For ages I thought it would have been on Gresham Road but I've now discovered that it was in Fyfield Road and I've actually taken pictures of the place. There were several reports of ghostly goings on at the pub in late Victorian times. I haven't managed to track down any archive photos of the pub or work out exactly when it closed (some time in the early 80s is my best guess so far).  Anyone got any more detail?





Sea Lion said:


> I think it closed in the mid to late seventies. I will ask my uncle when we next speak.


The Gresham Arms was still open in 1993 during the Angell Ward by-election and used by hard canvassing members of the political classes, along with the Hero of Switzerland and the Wickwood Tavern (Flaxman Road/Lilford Estate etc was in Angell Ward then - now moved into Herne Hill)

I think the Gresham was converted to housing in the late 1990s. Clever conversion too - the large single storey lounge to the rear was completely remodelled as a mini terrace of 2 houses.


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## editor (Nov 11, 2016)

CH1 said:


> The Gresham Arms was still open in 1993 during the Angell Ward by-election and used by hard canvassing members of the political classes, along with the Hero of Switzerland and the Wickwood Tavern (Flaxman Road/Lilford Estate etc was in Angell Ward then - now moved into Herne Hill)
> 
> I think the Gresham was converted to housing in the late 1990s. Clever conversion too - the large single storey lounge to the rear was completely remodelled as a mini terrace of 2 houses.


A review from a former pub worker:


> I  worked at the Gresham for about six months over the Christmas of 1983. It was a very handsome pub, but when trouble went down it really did. I remember one disgrunted customer turning up one Sunday afternoon and putting all the windows through with a sledgehammer. He climbed through the public bar door howling he wanted to kill the Governor. We were eventually rescued from the flat by one solitary copper who had only just left Hendon. I also remember a very surreal bottle fight. Friday and Saturday nights would be heaving and they were a really great bunch. Are the market boys teetotal now, I wonder? There was one large gent who had a couple of stalls, he used to bring in their takings in a brown paper bag, like apples. I remember seeing it with a pile of rubbish and sweeping it all into the bin, not knowing what was in it. Only the once, mind..... I've spent several years in the trade but have never since been asked for light and bitter or brown and bitter.
> Trudi Greenshields (September 2013)
> 
> The Gresham, Stockwell


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## CH1 (Nov 11, 2016)

editor said:


> A review from a former pub worker:


That's a surprise to me. I lived on Brixton Hill then, so never knew it at that time.

By 1993 it seemed rather boring. A predominantly white "estate pub" whose customers were gradually dying off I would say.


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## Philip ORegan (Nov 21, 2016)

editor said:


> I'm now working on a piece about the long lost Gresham Arms. For ages I thought it would have been on Gresham Road but I've now discovered that it was in Fyfield Road and I've actually taken pictures of the place. There were several reports of ghostly goings on at the pub in late Victorian times. I haven't managed to track down any archive photos of the pub or work out exactly when it closed (some time in the early 80s is my best guess so far).  Anyone got any more detail?


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## Philip ORegan (Nov 21, 2016)

I am the son-in-law of Joe Neenan who sadly passed away on the 22/11/2015. Joe loved this pub and he and wife  had many happy memories and stories of this place .

Phil


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