# Campaign to open Crystal Palace subway



## gaijingirl (Nov 12, 2011)

a friend posted this on her facebook status update.  I know there are plenty of people here interested in this sort of thing so thought I'd share it.  It's about the campaign to reopen to the public a Grade II listed subway which runs underneath Crystal Palace Parade in South London. It's a lovely piece of Victorian architecture going by the photos.

http://mishmashvintage.blogspot.com/2011/11/campaign-to-reopen-crystal-palace.html

http://petitionbureau.org/CrystalPalaceSubway


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## Andrew Hertford (Nov 12, 2011)

I remember being shown down there many years ago, it's a fantastic place. I'll sign the petition!


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## editor (Nov 12, 2011)

I'm sure I've walked through there at some point. Personally, I'd wish they's rebuild the whole Crystal Palace, but I fancy that's a tad unlikely.  This lot are going for it though: http://www.newcrystalpalace.org/


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## lang rabbie (Nov 13, 2011)

Wasn't the subway one of the sites that transferred to the London Development Agency as part of the ambitious plans for Crystal Palace Park that never materialised?

Who is taking over responsibility now that the LDA is being abolished?


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## Bungle73 (Nov 14, 2011)

Yeah they had an open day thing down there years ago....and I mean years, this was back when I was living in Nunhead which I left in 1998 and it was a long time before that.  I didn't go though, something which I regret.


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## porno thieving gypsy (Nov 14, 2011)

Nice article - I think it would be lovely to get access back to the subway.


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## Ted Striker (Nov 14, 2011)

I went down there on a school trip (so some years ago). The 1854 pic on there is amazing really.


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## RoyReed (Nov 14, 2011)

(Blunders500's photo)


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## Blunders500 (Nov 15, 2011)

There's some more images HERE >> http://markblundell.photoshelter.com/gallery/Crystal-Palace-High-Level-Station/G0000BmhODaITWtE/
I was quite lucky to find it open on a couple of occasions,  its currently locked but you can see through the gates on the opposite side to the park.
It really is a shame to see the place go to waste, its a great space and should really be used or at least seen by more people.


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## RaverDrew (Nov 15, 2011)

editor said:


> I'm sure I've walked through there at some point. Personally, I'd wish they's rebuild the whole Crystal Palace, but I fancy that's a tad unlikely. This lot are going for it though: http://www.newcrystalpalace.org/



Afaik this is dead in the water, and was never going to happen.


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## TopCat (Nov 18, 2011)

I want my guided tour Drew!


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 21, 2011)

Looks great, I never knew about this.

Can anyone tell me where it goes from/to? I can't place where the entrance and exits are in the park....


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## RaverDrew (Nov 21, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I want my guided tour Drew!



 Alas, I no longer have access to the keys for these tunnels


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## TopCat (Nov 21, 2011)

RaverDrew said:


> Alas, I no longer have access to the keys for these tunnels


I can be inventive with locks?


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## Crispy (Nov 21, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Looks great, I never knew about this.
> 
> Can anyone tell me where it goes from/to? I can't place where the entrance and exits are in the park....



It's this square hole in the ground: http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=51.422015,-0.077191&spn=0.000498,0.001743&gl=uk&vpsrc=6&t=k&z=19

It exits at "ground" level on the Northwest side of the road, which is where the "high-level" railway station used to be. It's all houses now, but the retaining wall that holds back the main road is unmistakably Victorian Train Station.

It can't really be resued as a subway just for crossing the road, as it's more inconvenient than just crossing it normally. It also can't really be used as a general right of way because it's such nice construction that would be ruined by vandals/tagging etc. It would have to be part of some larger landscaping/rebuilding at that end of the park, and be part of some staffed facility.


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## RaverDrew (Nov 21, 2011)

You hop over the wall on the opposite side of the parade to that square hole, and you have access to the gates. Last time I checked they'd been secured with new locks, but you were able force the gates enough to create a small gap at the top which you can climb through. It ain't easy, and you need some balls to do it.


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 21, 2011)

aha cheers guys, yes I know where that is now...


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## London_Calling (Nov 21, 2011)

RaverDrew said:


> You hop over the wall on the opposite side of the parade to that square hole, and you have access to the gates. Last time I checked they'd been secured with new locks, but you were able force the gates enough to create a small gap at the top which you can climb through. It ain't easy, and you need some balls to do it.


When you say you "hop over the wall" isn't there a slightly huge drop the other side there?

Anyway, we need a mission. Someone should start a (xenfora) conversation of interested parties


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## London_Calling (Nov 21, 2011)

whoa, all the times I've been in CP park and I never knew there was a maze there - on google, you can also see the way through.....


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## RaverDrew (Nov 21, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> When you say you "hop over the wall" isn't there a slightly huge drop the other side there?
> 
> Anyway, we need a mission. Someone should start a (xenfora) conversation of interested parties



IIRC there's a small slope of brambles to contend with and then a ~10ft drop into the gate area.


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## London_Calling (Nov 21, 2011)

Is there an exit strategy?


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## TopCat (Nov 21, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Is there an exit strategy?


Tie string to your toe.


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## TopCat (Nov 21, 2011)

I think we should all go and bring lots of K as well.


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## London_Calling (Nov 21, 2011)

Hell of a place for a party.


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## Bungle73 (Nov 21, 2011)

The line to Crystal Palace (High Level) station uses to go right near where I used to live. The line branched off just south of Nunhead station. You can still, partly, follow the line of where it used to go. There's a load flats built on it. Up until recently you could see one of the old bridge abutments where the line used to cross Brockley Way (I used to catch a bus along there regularly), but last time I was there they had demolished it. Then it followed the line of Brenchley Gardens, and through where the blocks of flats now are. You can clearly see the embankment.

There's a good book I have with pictures: "London Suburban Railways: Crystal Palace (High Level) and Catford Loop". Living locally I find it fascinating since I knew little of the line, except that it used to be there, from the various remains.

Most of the time I remember the site of the old High Level station was derelict. It's only fairly recently that housing was constructed on it. You can see the entrance to the old tunnel too....with a suitably placed toy train in front of it (if that's still there).

Edit: Oh and there's also a footpath along the track bed in the nature reserve by Lordship Lane, with a contemporary footbridge carrying Cox's Walk above it.


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## RoyReed (Nov 21, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Hell of a place for a party.


Yes - I wonder why they keep it locked.


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## oryx (Nov 22, 2011)

Bungle73 said:


> There's a good book I have with pictures: "London Suburban Railways: Crystal Palace (High Level) and Catford Loop". Living locally I find it fascinating since I knew little of the line, except that it used to be there, from the various remains.



Oooooh, we've got that. Some great pictures of the old high level station looking very spooky before it closed for good.

There's a great story about an old railway line which pre-dated the current/relatively recent ones, which operated on a vacuum basis and which may or may not contain a broken-down coach which could not be retrieved, complete with bodies.  (Not one I read in the aforementioned book).


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 22, 2011)

I went up there to have a look. The site was pretty easy to access. The vault/subway itself is a bit dirty but overall is in pretty good condition. The southern entrances which have been fenced off are falling apart and the brickwork looks decidedly dodgy. The north entrance is in good condition. Here's a few pics - apologies for the quality as I only had my phone on me. I'll probably go back better equipped next time to get some better pics...











To get in to the actual vaulted area you need to squeeze through this gap of about 6 inches....I think only the skinniest of Urbanites would get through there!




It looks like someone has been living/sleeping there, given the empty cans of superstrong cider, a sleeping bag and various other paraphenalia.



London_Calling said:


> Hell of a place for a party.


It is....although unfortunately there are some flats very close by...they look like sheltered housing or an old people's home....i think the noise would be very obvious (...but where there's a will there's a way )


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 22, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Is there an exit strategy?


I think you would need a rope ladder to exit from the south side because - as Drew mentioned - it's at least a 10ft plain brick wall you need to climb up. There's nothing to hang/grab on to and the gates are really securely locked. I wouldn't go to the south side on your own as it would be really easy to get trapped. It's easier to access via the north side...


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 22, 2011)

Crispy said:


> It exits at "ground" level on the Northwest side of the road, which is where the "high-level" railway station used to be. It's all houses now, but the retaining wall that holds back the main road is unmistakably Victorian Train Station.


The "ground" level exit on the south side is actually about 15 or 20 feet above the level of the road & housing by the retaining wall. The old station must have had two levels - an 'upper' level which ran through the subway to the Crystal Palace itself, and a 'lower' level where the tracks and trains were. You can still see the bricked up end of the tunnel where the railway line must have run a bit further up opposite the bus station.



Crispy said:


> It can't really be resued as a subway just for crossing the road, as it's more inconvenient than just crossing it normally. It also can't really be used as a general right of way because it's such nice construction that would be ruined by vandals/tagging etc. It would have to be part of some larger landscaping/rebuilding at that end of the park, and be part of some staffed facility.


It's a beautiful space and could easily be restored with some bricklaying repairs and some landscaping at the south entrance. I don't even think it would cost that much....


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## Crispy (Nov 22, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> It's a beautiful space and could easily be restored with some bricklaying repairs and some landscaping at the south entrance. I don't even think it would cost that much....


  The restoration would be easy - the management would not. Any non-supervised underground space in London will soon be vandalised/tagged/used for nefarious purposes. Sad to say


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 22, 2011)

Crispy said:


> The restoration would be easy - the management would not. Any non-supervised underground space in London will soon be vandalised/tagged/used for nefarious purposes. Sad to say


Surely you could restore it and keep it locked securely.....only opening it up for specific events..?


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## Crispy (Nov 22, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Surely you could restore it and keep it locked securely.....only opening it up for specific events..?


Yep, that'd work. Southern entrance would need the most work I suppose.


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 22, 2011)

I wish I'd known about this a few weeks ago....it would have been a wicked place to go on Halloween with some mulled cider, a bag of party tools and some scary stories...


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 22, 2011)

Right, I'm on a roll here (bear with me!) I managed to procure a book from the Minet Library about the Crystal Palace and I'm hoping there might be some old photos of the subway or some other details.

This pic is an aerial view from 1928 and shows the old high level station on the right hand side of the picture about halfway up. The subway must have run under the road from the Crystal Palace and into the station building at a point about halfway along the length you can see here:


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## Brixton Hatter (Nov 22, 2011)

here's a better picture of the south entrance - (this is the side you dont wanna get trapped in!)


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## London_Calling (Nov 23, 2011)

That's interesting - makes clear geographic sense now, cheers.


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## cemertyone (Nov 23, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> here's a better picture of the south entrance - (this is the side you dont wanna get trapped in!)


 about two summers ago i went for an early morning Sunday walk in the palace
and there was a little rave crew right where that photo is banging out some lovely
tranc/house numbers from the back of a ford transit....


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## RubyToogood (Nov 24, 2011)

I actually have been to a party down there, about maybe four or five years ago. Bit of a pisstaking sort of squat party really (they wouldn't let us bring our own alcohol in and door tax wasn't cheap), so not that great.

The brickwork was actually done by Italians, which is why it looks like the crypt of an Italian cathedral.


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## southside (Nov 30, 2011)

I used to go there 30 years ago, I was 13. we got chased by insane glue sniffing skin heads and punks with mohawks.

They were the days.

Young boys in the park.

Jumpers for goal posts.


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## Maggot (Dec 8, 2011)

RubyToogood said:


> The brickwork was actually done by Italians, which is why it looks like the crypt of an Italian cathedral.



It reminds me of a cellar designed by Gaudi in Barcelona.


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## Bakunin (Dec 8, 2011)

I'd rather the re-opened the Crystal Palace racing circuit, personally. Sadly, it looks as though the track has passed into motor racing history.


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## Onket (Apr 16, 2012)

Someone has just linked to this thread, thought it deserved a bump.


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 16, 2012)

It's worth a look if you're ever in the Crystal Palace area....you can climb over the wall at the edge of the road and get to it down some steps.


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## Onket (Apr 16, 2012)

Let me know if you're going again, although I'm not sure I'd fit through that gap anymore!


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## Brixton Hatter (May 13, 2013)

Southwark Council has granted planning permission to reinstate the gate and entrance to the subway on the Southwark side 

Crispy editor RaverDrew gaijingirl


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## Brixton Hatter (May 13, 2013)

You can follow the subway on Twitter: https://twitter.com/cpsubway

Just found this old photo of the subway from when the Crystal Palace high-level station was still in use in the 1920s


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## Crispy (May 13, 2013)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Southwark Council has granted planning permission to reinstate the gate and entrance to the subway on the Southwark side
> 
> Crispy editor RaverDrew gaijingirl


Whose application? And whose funding?


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## Brixton Hatter (May 13, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Whose application? And whose funding?


Application by the "Friends of Crystal Palace subway": http://cpsubway.org.uk/news-2013/

No idea re: funding, but the works are small: remove the brick infill and reinstate the entrance with a metal gate. Cleaning up etc will be done by volunteers I guess.


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## Balham (May 13, 2013)

If nothing else just spent an interesting few moments reading about the Crystal Palace High Level Station and the Crystal Palace and South London Junction Railway.


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## Balham (May 14, 2013)

Did find on a map, Googlemap is as good as any I suppose, there are still visible traces of where the line went.
Looked an impressive station, they must have been very optimistic with six platforms.


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## Crispy (May 14, 2013)

Balham said:


> Did find on a map, Googlemap is as good as any I suppose, there are still visible traces of where the line went.
> Looked an impressive station, they must have been very optimistic with six platforms.


Crystal Palace was the major entertainment and tourist attraction of South London.  The stations were busy.

I mean, look at this shit!


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## Balham (May 14, 2013)

I know it was 'the place' years a go. I think I had just thought as it was a relativly short line. . . . .
My Dad remembers watching the flames from when Crystal Palace burnt down, could be seen for miles apparently. 


The fire seems to have sealed the fate for the railway, the declne starting in 1936 according to what  I read. Fascinating stuff though.


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## Bungle73 (May 14, 2013)

At the risk of repeating myself, I'm going to repeat myself, as I posted it a while ago:




Bungle73 said:


> The line to Crystal Palace (High Level) station uses to go right near where I used to live. The line branched off just south of Nunhead station. You can still, partly, follow the line of where it used to go. There's a load flats built on it. Up until recently you could see one of the old bridge abutments where the line used to cross Brockley Way (I used to catch a bus along there regularly), but last time I was there they had demolished it. Then it followed the line of Brenchley Gardens, and through where the blocks of flats now are. You can clearly see the embankment.
> 
> There's a good book I have with pictures: "London Suburban Railways: Crystal Palace (High Level) and Catford Loop". Living locally I find it fascinating since I knew little of the line, except that it used to be there, from the various remains.
> 
> ...


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## Maggot (Sep 6, 2013)

There's a chance to view the subway as part of Open House weekend - but you have to enter a ballot.  http://cpsubway.org.uk/2013/08/subway-open-day/#more-87


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## oryx (Sep 6, 2013)

Great pic, Crispy.

I once saw a framed photo in the gallery shop in CP, of rooftops with the Palace itself in the background. Probably early 20c. It really gave a feel of what the area must have been like with the Palace dominating it.

Wish I'd bought it now.


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## dogmatique (Sep 7, 2013)

Unfortunately the ballot closed on Aug 31st.  Dammit.  Maybe next year.


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## r0bb0 (Sep 13, 2013)

Anyone want to go up here with an Ouija board and a camera for day of the dead - what could possibly go wrong


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## Brixton Hatter (Oct 12, 2013)

Video of the subway from the open day here:


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## Subway Project (Jan 1, 2014)

Very interesting thread with great comment and photos so I've joined the forum specially to post a reply. I was wondering if anyone here would be willing to share their subway memories for a community heritage project that I'm involved with more info can be found at http://www.inspiredbythesubway.org.uk


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## Miss-Shelf (Jan 1, 2014)

.  I am now longer confused


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## Maggot (Jan 1, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> .  I am now longer confused


You are confused for a longer period of time?


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 1, 2014)

Subway Project said:


> Very interesting thread with great comment and photos so I've joined the forum specially to post a reply. I was wondering if anyone here would be willing to share their subway memories for a community heritage project that I'm involved with more info can be found at http://www.inspiredbythesubway.org.uk


No real memories from me, other than regularly climbing over the wall to gaze inside and satisfy my curiosity! Other posters like RaverDrew  may have something to say.

Good luck with the project.

(By the way, what's your view on the proposal for the new crystal palace development?)


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## Subway Project (Jan 1, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> (By the way, what's your view on the proposal for the new crystal palace development?)



Not much to go on in terms of detail with the development so far but on 10th December at the first community drop in session it became apparent that the subway is to be included in the plan (whatever the plan turns out to be!) Until then I thought Friends of Crystal Palace Subway were making good progress with access, fundraising and raising profile. It's very unclear what might happen next at the moment.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 3, 2014)

Subway Project said:


> Not much to go on in terms of detail with the development so far but on 10th December at the first community drop in session it became apparent that the subway is to be included in the plan (whatever the plan turns out to be!) Until then I thought Friends of Crystal Palace Subway were making good progress with access, fundraising and raising profile. It's very unclear what might happen next at the moment.


Thanks. Yes, Friends of Crystal Palace Subway have done great work to promote use/restoration of the subway.

I'm unconvinced by the 'rebuild crystal palace' plans. I predict we'll be sold a lot of guff about 'community use' and 'restoring' the park, but at the end of the day any developer will want to make money from retail units and residential property, probably at the expense of public access to the park. I await more details with interest..


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 3, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I'm unconvinced by the 'rebuild crystal palace' plans. I predict we'll be sold a lot of guff about 'community use' and 'restoring' the park, but at the end of the day any developer will want to make money from retail units and residential property, probably at the expense of public access to the park. I await more details with interest..



Yeah. Personally I don't expect it to ever really look like happening, but if it does I'm thinking it'll be a shopping centre. Although I doubt they'd be able to get residential units in there.


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## Maggot (Sep 7, 2014)

Good article from Ian Visits: http://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2014/09/06/inside-the-derelict-crystal-palace-subway/


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## Brixton Hatter (Sep 19, 2015)

Tomorrow (Sunday) they're gonna let me in to have a proper look at the subway. 

This isn't a dodgy 'jump over the fence and squeeze through the gate with a can of strongbow' visit, but an actual proper official visit. I'll probably have to wear hi-viz and a hard hat 

I am WELL excited. 

I will take some photos and stuff. If anyone wants me to ask any particular questions etc, please let me know, and I'll do it 

I'll try not to graf the walls, or start an all night party  (joke).


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## Puddy_Tat (Sep 19, 2015)

'Disused Stations' page on Crystal Palace High Level station (links to other stations on the line)  here

I walked some of the line in the 80s - really not a lot left visible then...


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## Ted Striker (Jan 10, 2016)

The secret subway of Crystal Palace 'set to re-open' - BBC News

*The secret subway of Crystal Palace 'set to re-open'*

An abandoned Victorian subway in south-east London could be reopened to the public by the spring.

It was once a grand entrance to the legendary Crystal Palace for the Great Exhibition of 1851, before being abandoned when London's top tourist attraction burned down in 1936


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## hash tag (Jan 12, 2016)

Lets hope so. Palace station is a triumph of brickwork, it,s beautiful, so can only imagine what the tunnels will be like.


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## stdP (Jan 12, 2016)

I'm one of the lucky chaps who've managed to wangle my way into the subway on the open days, and it is indeed utterly beautiful (just wish I could have taken a tripod and half an our with no people in there as well) and I've donated some cash to the cause. I'd love to see it get more publicity than it already has; I'd been living within spitting distance of it for four years before I even knew it was there and I'd been half-heartedly wondering where the hell this amazing place was for ten years at the time...! Came across it by accident when we were biking the old high-level trackbed. I even spotted a guy in the pub wearing a stylised subway t-shirt and asked him if he'd seen it; he thought I was joking because he didn't think it was a real place.

Are there any details on exactly what they're proposing for the site? From reading and talking with the locals about it, the problems are manifold for unsupervised attendance:
The staircase is all over the shop; 'elf'n'safety.
Sadly non-negligible damage to the floor and apparently bits of the roof are in bad enough nick that hard hats are mandatory (falling hazard from bits of brick etc). Elfin safety again.
The brick walls that form the chamber between the subway and the stairs aren't reinforced and the weight of the earth is basically bulgerising (technical term) them inwards (and has been since they were built) which apparently renders the whole structure structurally unsound; even on the open days these areas get taped off, as such opening up the subway proper is off the cards.

The old proposal on their site mentions getting a new gate installed on the other side of the parade in order to re-open the steps down to the station-side; there's a grim platform there where you can nonetheless at least _see_ the brickwork but there's local opposition to that since if you make the platform accessible, the residents of the houses opposite (built where the station used to be, also a rehab centre) have concerns about the usual ne'er do well congregating there, so presumably even the gate at the street level would only be opened at certain times.

Heartbreaking really, I find this place so magical but it's an architectural artefact bridging two times and places that no longer exist and its comparative lack of access makes any attempts to open it to a wider world that much harder.


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## Bungle73 (Jan 12, 2016)

hash tag said:


> Lets hope so. Palace station is a triumph of brickwork, it,s beautiful, so can only imagine what the tunnels will be like.


That's a different station though; built by a different company.


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## ice-is-forming (Jan 18, 2016)

My cousin sent me this today. a drone flying over palace park on the first day  of snow


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## hash tag (Jan 18, 2016)

Oooh I like that. Brilliant.


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## Maggot (Jan 24, 2016)

There's a documentary about the subway on  at East Dulwich Picturehouse on 30th January.

Crystal Palace Subway Documentary


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## teuchter (Apr 12, 2022)

It looks like this is happening.





__





						CRYSTAL PALACE SUBWAY | TFP
					






					www.thomasford.co.uk


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## TopCat (Apr 12, 2022)

Glacial progress.


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## hash tag (Apr 13, 2022)

Lets hope the tunnels are restored and opened. While what they represent is not so great, they are fantastic things to visit and are opened occasionally.


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## ouirdeaux (Apr 13, 2022)

What exactly do they represent, apart from a 19th-century thoroughfare more interesting that most?


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## hash tag (Apr 13, 2022)

The Crystal Palace tunnels were originally a weather proof short cut to the great exhibition, for 1st class travellers only. 2nd and 3rd class travellers had to brave the weather.


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