# Sunday 9th December Demonstrations



## Jeremiah18.17 (Nov 28, 2018)

So, it now looks that a range of demos and causes will be represented in London on Sunday 9th, the weekend before the “meaningful vote” in May’s EU leaving deal.

It looks like this time there may be large forces on several sides unlike previously, when the right have mobilised well the left have not and vice versa.

This time SYL, UKIP and the far right are mobilising on a Sunday, so not as many of their football crews will be otherwise occupied.
On the other side there are various discussions about an anti fascist mobilisation, with something of a split between those who want to take on the whole anti-Brexit message of the right, and others seeking to organise both Brexit and Remain elements around a purely anti fascist unity.

This might lead to an anti Brexit mobilisation and a specific anti fascist mobilisation.

Could get heated.

Owen Jones take: The far right will try to exploit any Brexit outcome. We can’t let it happen | Owen Jones


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## Jeremiah18.17 (Nov 28, 2018)

Novara  article from Callum Cant and Benjamin Walters that is causing some controversy: 
Leave or Remain, We All Hate Tommy | Novara Media


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## Jeremiah18.17 (Dec 2, 2018)

AFN on 9th December:
Unite to stop Tommy Robinson on December 9th
London Antifascists:


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## Riklet (Dec 5, 2018)

What if at the Gilets Jaunes protest, all the left groups were there mainly protesting about there being a  few well know dodgy fascists there and focusing on that above everything else.

As far as Im aware this is a leave-backing march backed by Robinson, UKIP etc. But not actually organised by them. If no one's focusing on the _politics _of the actual event, then it's these groups who will seize the initiative, whether they get a kicking or not.


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## Jeremiah18.17 (Dec 7, 2018)

Nick Ryan of Hope Not Hate on the background to the Sunday demo, in the Graun....

In the febrile atmosphere of Brexit, the far right is waiting to pounce | Nick Ryan


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## treelover (Dec 7, 2018)

Riklet said:


> What if at the Gilets Jaunes protest, all the left groups were there mainly protesting about there being a  few well know dodgy fascists there and focusing on that above everything else.
> 
> As far as Im aware this is a leave-backing march backed by Robinson, UKIP etc. But not actually organised by them. If no one's focusing on the _politics _of the actual event, then it's these groups who will seize the initiative, whether they get a kicking or not.



The wider left* seem to be putting all its effort into marches like these and the Trump events, Universal Credit is decimating communities more than creeps like Robinson, where are the national protests against UC, rising homelessness, etc? If they did more of the former, the latter would not be as viable to people who may feel abandoned, left behind(so sad to see ex miners supporting TR, the Tories , etc.)

*and of course much of it with the resources of the rape apologists.


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 7, 2018)

I’m heading there. No idea what to do when I get there, i’m Not affiliated to any organisation. Just feels like the more bodies the better


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 7, 2018)

Any Urbans heading there? If so any chance of an invite to join you, other wise i’ll be walking about like a lost child 

Take pity


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## spitfire (Dec 7, 2018)

I'm going to try and head down, (hangover dependant). Will probably be on my own as well so if there is an urb contingent then I'd be up for tagging along. I'm definitely not a copper. I've got a badge and everything.


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 7, 2018)

spitfire said:


> I'm going to try and head down, (hangover dependant). Will probably be on my own as well so if there is an urb contingent then I'd be up for tagging along. I'm definitely not a copper. I've got a badge and everything.



Yep not a copper either 

Happy to link up so I don’t feel totally like a spare prick at a wedding

Landing in Waterloo 1030 

I don’t own any badges


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## spitfire (Dec 7, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> Yep not a copper either
> 
> Happy to link up so I don’t feel totally like a spare prick at a wedding
> 
> ...



I'll bring you one.


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## The39thStep (Dec 7, 2018)

This demo is a practise run for what we can expect from a Farage free UKIP . SYL , even though he is not a member, has said that he wants to turn UKIP into a 'popular revolutionist ' party. At the recent UKIP planning meeting the most significant player wasn't Danny Tommo , a disposable thug, who got all the attention but the rep from The Middle East Forum who have the dosh and will speak at the rally. 
UKIP need a two track approach using SYL's international standing to consolidate further funding and to also consolidate their support on the right . Previously the DFLA have been at arms length , there's an opportunity to bring them closer. The breakaway For Britain group is ripe for recruiting from if the new UKIP /SYL alliance can demonstrate a show of force. 
I don't think any of these groups are Nazis but they are rapidly blurring the lines between alt right/ populism and fascism. I suspect that their road to success isn't going to be linear but they aren't going to go away with both opposition and a political alternative .


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 7, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> This demo is a practise run for what we can expect from a Farage free UKIP . SYL , even though he is not a member, has said that he wants to turn UKIP into a 'popular revolutionist ' party. At the recent UKIP planning meeting the most significant player wasn't Danny Tommo , a disposable thug, who got all the attention but the rep from The Middle East Forum who have the dosh and will speak at the rally.
> UKIP need a two track approach using SYL's international standing to consolidate further funding and to also consolidate their support on the right . Previously the DFLA have been at arms length , there's an opportunity to bring them closer. The breakaway For Britain group is ripe for recruiting from if the new UKIP /SYL alliance can demonstrate a show of force.
> I don't think any of these groups are Nazis but they are rapidly blurring the lines between alt right/ populism and fascism. I suspect that their road to success isn't going to be linear but they aren't going to go away with both opposition and a political alternative .



So worth attending ?


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## The39thStep (Dec 7, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> So worth attending ?


Worth opposing. Going to be a long drawn out war.


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## brogdale (Dec 8, 2018)

Riklet said:


> As far as Im aware this is a leave-backing march backed by Robinson, UKIP etc. But *not actually organised by them.* If no one's focusing on the _politics _of the actual event, then it's these groups who will seize the initiative, whether they get a kicking or not.



Pic in Guardian would suggest otherwise:


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 8, 2018)

That's from Anti-Islam activists get key roles in 'family-friendly' Brexit march btw. Yeah, it's TR and his US backers and assorted connected parties. UKIP are tagging on.

For this reason I don't think there will be a huge turnout, though I've been wrong before. TR himself has managed to maintain a good level of popularity but filling a rally with cunts off the internet whinging about being banned from Twitter is only interesting to a small segment.

ETA: this turned out to be wrong


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## Cheesepig3 (Dec 8, 2018)

I don't get off work until 1430, can be at Waterloo around 1545... is it worth it?


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 9, 2018)

In the choo choo

Slightly hungover


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> In the choo choo
> 
> Slightly hungover



Just surfaced, contemplating my movements. Will drop you a pm if I get my shit together.


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 9, 2018)




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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> Yep not a copper either
> 
> Happy to link up so I don’t feel totally like a spare prick at a wedding
> 
> ...



Here too if you find a meeting point


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

I’m on my way in.


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

Am at the apple store. In the March. Stop start.


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## Lord Camomile (Dec 9, 2018)

I couldn't make it (work  ), but a mate I march with is going. Glad the weather turned out better than this morning. Large crowd?


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

Seems to be. I’d say the length of regent street but it’s hard to tell.


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

But only half of it. The other half is open to traffic.


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

Old bill are all kitted out ready for a ruck at the drop of a hat. This ain’t no Waitrose march. 

Quite a few black hoodies around me.


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

Anti fascist action attracting plenty of police attention.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 9, 2018)

The Brexit one is just setting off down park lane now.


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

I appear to be at the front of the March. 

Everyone follow me!


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

The front of the March is now at Piccadilly Circus.


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## manji (Dec 9, 2018)

Anti-fascists to protest against far-right Brexit rally in London

I’m glad Owen Jones and Momentum have organised the Counter Demo


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

Some stone island goons spotting have been chased off by some people braver than me. All very under the radar mind.


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

Scuffles at front. Tr supporters down a side road.


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

Sorry supporter.


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## Cheesepig3 (Dec 9, 2018)

spitfire said:


> I appear to be at the front of the March.
> 
> Everyone follow me!




You are Douglas Bader and I claim my £5.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 9, 2018)

The actual Brexit march itself is much bigger than I thought it would be - much more Brexitty, with a lot of UKIP people who i don’t think are there just for TR.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 9, 2018)

Good luck to all out


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

Am with bellaozzydog now. We’re near the front.


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## SheilaNaGig (Dec 9, 2018)

I was hoping to be there’s but now can’t make it. A group of friends are there.

I send blessings of courage and determination and all kinds of good luck to those out protesting the Far Fight in all its guises.


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## brogdale (Dec 9, 2018)




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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

Anyone have any idea on numbers?


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## The39thStep (Dec 9, 2018)

YouSir said:


> Anyone have any idea on numbers?


Twitter feeds suggest around  5k Brexit Betryal , 15k Stop Tommy Robinson


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

Speaker said 15k. Whitehall was about half full from the truck to Trafalgar Square.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 9, 2018)

The39thStep said:


> Twitter feeds suggest around  5k Brexit Betryal , 15k Stop Tommy Robinson


That sounds about right. Three or four times the number of antis as brexitters certainly.


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## Fozzie Bear (Dec 9, 2018)

What was all the pushing and shoving with the cops about north of Trafalgar Square?


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## Fozzie Bear (Dec 9, 2018)

Ah


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 9, 2018)

spitfire said:


> Sorry supporter.


 
Some one shouted “WATCH OUT HE’s GOT A FLAG” 

Getting scoped out by Antifa because we looked too  smart casual is a new low point in my life


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> Some one shouted “WATCH OUT HE’s GOT A FLAG”
> 
> Getting scoped out by Antifa because we looked too  smart casual is a new low point in my life



Yeah, that was funny, we are at the age where we could have been either casuals or coppers. I need more badges....


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## Dogsauce (Dec 9, 2018)

5K would be a good turnout for a far-right march, for a relatively more mainstream/respectable UKIPpy affair it sounds pretty poor, especially for the efforts they were putting into it.


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 9, 2018)

Dogsauce said:


> 5K would be a good turnout for a far-right march, for a relatively more mainstream/respectable UKIPpy affair it sounds pretty poor, especially for the efforts they were putting into it.



It’s less than who turned out for the free tommeh stuff by a wide margin.


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## brogdale (Dec 9, 2018)

_Make it happen Tommeh_


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## toblerone3 (Dec 9, 2018)

Brexit Betrayal Vote 9th December 2018 - about 5,000
Peoples Vote March October 20th 2018 - about 700,000

Can pro-Brexit elements ever get a significant crowd out on a demonstration in London?


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## brogdale (Dec 9, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> Brexit Betrayal Vote 9th December 2018 - about 5,000
> Peoples Vote March October 20th 2018 - about 700,000
> 
> Can pro-Brexit elements ever get a significant crowd out on a demonstration in London?


I not even a leave supporter, but posts like this make me want to reply *17,410,742 : 16,141,241*


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 9, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> Brexit Betrayal Vote 9th December 2018 - about 5,000
> Peoples Vote March October 20th 2018 - about 700,000
> 
> Can pro-Brexit elements ever get a significant crowd out on a demonstration in London?



Can we not meld Brexit votes with support for Fascism. It’s deeply unhelpful. Cheers.


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## toblerone3 (Dec 9, 2018)

brogdale said:


> I not even a leave supporter, but posts like this make me want to reply *17,410,742 : 16,141,241*



My question is about demonstrations not the vote. Brexit is not by no means a foregone conclusion now and numbers of people on demos do matter somewhat. I assert that pro-Brexit forces cannot get the numbers on the streets.


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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

Just back (from the pub) sorry for not hooking up with the Urbanites out today, got distracted by that little scuffle up at Trafalgar Square. Anyway, haven't heard any numbers I believe so reserving judgement for now. By and large though our lot seemed positive and, relatively, united. Barring Swappies trying to be at the front, which is an absurd fucking ordeal but business as usual I suppose.


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## editor (Dec 9, 2018)

Some piece of pondlife shit was on the march with a banner reading, "Jo Cox - False Flag."


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## brogdale (Dec 9, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> My question is about demonstrations not the vote. Brexit is not by an means a foregone conclusion now and numbers of people on demos do matter somewhat. I assert that pro-Brexit forces cannot get the numbers on the streets.



Be careful what you wish for.


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## toblerone3 (Dec 9, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Can we not meld Brexit votes with support for Fascism. It’s deeply unhelpful. Cheers.



Pro-Brexit forces have allied themselves with Fascist groups so there is a meld. Its a problem for people who believe in Brexit. Pro EU people also have some unsavoury allies but it doesn't appear quite so bad.


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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> My question is about demonstrations not the vote. Brexit is not by an means a foregone conclusion now and numbers of people on demos do matter somewhat. I assert that pro-Brexit forces cannot get the numbers on the streets.



This wasn't a pro-Brexit march. I voted Leave but Tommy Robinson is still a cunt, don't try to conflate the two.


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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> Pro-Brexit forces have allied themselves with Fascist groups so there is a meld. Its a problem for people who believe in Brexit. Pro EU people also have some unsavoury allies but it doesn't appear quite so bad.



Aye, only a few hundred thousand dead amongst the Remain supporters.


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## treelover (Dec 9, 2018)

There is a video on FB that indicates the anti-brexit march was more substantial than is being estimated, worth viewing and discussing, right wing page I think though. 

You Sir, SWP branded the demo as usual, I recall they have always done this, difference is they are known rape apologists now.


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## toblerone3 (Dec 9, 2018)

YouSir said:


> Aye, only a few hundred thousand dead amongst the Remain supporters.



What


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## toblerone3 (Dec 9, 2018)

YouSir said:


> This wasn't a pro-Brexit march. I voted Leave but Tommy Robinson is still a cunt, don't try to conflate the two.



I'm not conflating the two.  But if you and Tommy Robinson end up on the same march you will be conflated.


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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> I'm not conflating the two.  But if you and Tommy Robinson end up on the same march you will be conflated.



We didn't, we ended up on polar opposite marches. As to your over response, think about those who've been the public face of Remain. If you can't figure it out it's your problem.


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## treelover (Dec 9, 2018)

marching with 


toblerone3 said:


> I'm not conflating the two.  But if you and Tommy Robinson end up on the same march you will be conflated.




So, no defender of TR, people marched with rape apologists today, who ungraciously also branded the protests, are they culpable?


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## Magnus McGinty (Dec 9, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> Pro-Brexit forces have allied themselves with Fascist groups so there is a meld. Its a problem for people who believe in Brexit. Pro EU people also have some unsavoury allies but it doesn't appear quite so bad.



This is bonkers. But I can’t be arsed to go into it.


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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

treelover said:


> There is a video on FB that indicates the anti-brexit march was more substantial than is being estimated, worth viewing and discussing, right wing page I think though.
> 
> You Sir, SWP branded the demo as usual, I recall they have always done this, difference is they are known rape apologists now.




They did, I was talking about that to people afterwards. They will always hand out their signs, people will always take them because they're there. I think the Left has a tendency to get too obsessed about that even though everyone who's actually there knows about the SWP and wants fuck all to do with them. And anyone who sees the signs and doesn't know about the SWP, doesn't care.


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## treelover (Dec 9, 2018)

Going by that video, what do poster estimate were there, lots of triumphalism at the Guardian, etc, and if such localised turn outs are the most significant element in fighting the far right.


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

YouSir said:


> Just back (from the pub) sorry for not hooking up with the Urbanites out today, got distracted by that little scuffle up at Trafalgar Square. Anyway, haven't heard any numbers I believe so reserving judgement for now. By and large though our lot seemed positive and, relatively, united. Barring Swappies trying to be at the front, which is an absurd fucking ordeal but business as usual I suppose.



I think we'd gone past before that happened, we were very near the front. There was a small shouting match at the bottom left of Trafalgar Square when myself and bellaozzydog went through but we didn't see anything more substantial.

It was good to meet mr. dog today, hopefully we get to march together again.


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## toblerone3 (Dec 9, 2018)

YouSir said:


> We didn't, we ended up on polar opposite marches. As to your over response, think about those who've been the public face of Remain. If you can't figure it out it's your problem.



I did say that there were some unsavoury remain people a few posts back I think.


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

treelover said:


> Going by that video, what do poster estimate were there, lots of triumphalism at the Guardian, etc, and if such localised turn outs are the most significant element in fighting the far right.



No idea, we were too far away to estimate, (mortar range rather than rifle range). But that looks like there is way more than most people are saying.


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## toblerone3 (Dec 9, 2018)

treelover said:


> marching with
> 
> 
> 
> So, no defender of TR, people marched with rape apologists today, who ungraciously also branded the protests, are they culpable?



I don't understand this.


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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

spitfire said:


> I think we'd gone past before that happened, we were very near the front. There was a small shouting match at the bottom left of Trafalgar Square when myself and bellaozzydog went through but we didn't see anything more substantial.
> 
> It was good to meet mr. dog today, hopefully we get to march together again.



Wasn't anything, tbh. Some black bloc types tried to get by the police, the police had no idea what was going on and let them. Little scuffle and all over. Did hear later that there were some Fash in Trafalgar Square, which was why people were trying to get through. Weren't there when I was though, not unless they were very quiet about it, which they may have been.

On a more cheerful note, did see a copper lose their truncheon which was disappeared into the crowd. So, someone has a nice reminder of the day.


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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

spitfire said:


> No idea, we were too far away to estimate, (mortar range rather than rifle range). But that looks like there is way more than most people are saying.



Tbf 3,000, which is the number I've heard, can look like a lot more in a small space. Not watched the video though, can't be arsed.


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## spitfire (Dec 9, 2018)

YouSir said:


> Wasn't anything, tbh. Some black bloc types tried to get by the police, the police had no idea what was going on and let them. Little scuffle and all over. Did hear later that there were some Fash in Trafalgar Square, which was why people were trying to get through. Weren't there when I was though, not unless they were very quiet about it, which they may have been.
> 
> On a more cheerful note, did see a copper lose their truncheon which was disappeared into the crowd. So, someone has a nice reminder of the day.



Yeah the ones we saw at trafalgar sq were the same 3 Stone Island types who were chased off by some guys at Piccadilly. Not sure if there was many more but I guess they may have been nearby.


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## Red Sky (Dec 9, 2018)

Odd day. I can't see how we had any impact on the Tommy R thing. There certainly weren't 15000 of us.


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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

spitfire said:


> Yeah the ones we saw at trafalgar sq were the same 3 Stone Island types who were chased off by some guys at Piccadilly. Not sure if there was many more but I guess they may have been nearby.



Weird really, did see some spotters before Trafalgar Square, well hidden behind police. What were the roaming Fash looking for? They did fuck all, were massively outnumbered and just stood around. Odd tactic on a march which was always going to be heavily policed.


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## FridgeMagnet (Dec 9, 2018)

treelover said:


> Going by that video, what do poster estimate were there, lots of triumphalism at the Guardian, etc, and if such localised turn outs are the most significant element in fighting the far right.


I was at both. The numbers quoted previously are pretty accurate I’d say  - a few thousand Brexit, three or four times that number anti.


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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Odd day. I can't see how we had any impact on the Tommy R thing. There certainly weren't 15000 of us.


 
Momentum said there were, so there was...

Otherwise, didn't give them free reign, maybe made some feel unwelcome. I dunno.


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## Fozzie Bear (Dec 9, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Odd day. I can't see how we had any impact on the Tommy R thing. There certainly weren't 15000 of us.



I guessed 10,000. The impact was that even then it was significantly more than the opposition. Which is something. 

Cops seemed to have it all sewn up when the marches were on...


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## Red Sky (Dec 9, 2018)

I was on the anti fascist one. At its absolute height maybe 5000. Loads less than that at the end.


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## Red Sky (Dec 9, 2018)

YouSir said:


> Momentum said there were, so there was...
> 
> Otherwise, didn't give them free reign, maybe made some feel unwelcome. I dunno.




Well yeah . According to Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar we outnumbered them 5 to 1 . Which makes it quite embarrassing that we didn't do anything.


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## Voley (Dec 9, 2018)

Metro reporting Yaxley-Lennon's lot outnumbered 5 to 1. Even allowing for a bit of journalistic licence that's heartening to read.

Nice one, everyone that went.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 9, 2018)

that one joke jonathon pie was spotted having selfies with the tommy knockers


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## YouSir (Dec 9, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> Well yeah . According to Owen Jones and Ash Sarkar we outnumbered them 5 to 1 . Which makes it quite embarrassing that we didn't do anything.



What should have been done? Heavily, heavily policed, wide range of people - not all of whom were up for ruckus, kept a long way from the opposition. Anyone who thought this could have developed into something else before the police waded in was delusional.


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## Kaka Tim (Dec 9, 2018)

well done to all who went. 
When/if brexit gets canned the far right will continue trying to channel outrage at "the great betrayal" onto the streets - this seems to indicate that they will have limited success. If anything the the presence of the likes of Yaxley Lennon and the new model UKIP leading the "brexit betrayed" campaign will likely put a lot of leave voters off.


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 9, 2018)

YouSir said:


> Weird really, did see some spotters before Trafalgar Square, well hidden behind police. What were the roaming Fash looking for? They did fuck all, were massively outnumbered and just stood around. Odd tactic on a march which was always going to be heavily policed.



I think they were happy gobbing off to the March knowing that the police were there to stop any concerted violence against them and tbh the crowd were surrounding them and heckling them to death  from my point of view there seemed to be loads of self restraint and the majority of marchers didn’t seem to be of the fighting type

My first protest march on the human side

Really buzzing from it


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## The39thStep (Dec 9, 2018)

toblerone3 said:


> Pro-Brexit forces have allied themselves with Fascist groups so there is a meld. Its a problem for people who believe in Brexit. Pro EU people also have some unsavoury allies but it doesn't appear quite so bad.





Kaka Tim said:


> well done to all who went.
> When/if brexit gets canned the far right will continue trying to channel outrage at "the great betrayal" onto the streets - this seems to indicate that they will have limited success. If anything the the presence of the likes of Yaxley Lennon and the new model UKIP leading the "brexit betrayed" campaign will likely put a lot of leave voters off.



The opposition to SYL and UKIP was an alliance between remain supporters and leave who feel opposing them on the day was the priority.


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## Red Sky (Dec 9, 2018)

YouSir said:


> What should have been done? Heavily, heavily policed, wide range of people - not all of whom were up for ruckus, kept a long way from the opposition. Anyone who thought this could have developed into something else before the police waded in was delusional.



My point was that it wasn't anywhere near 15000.


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## bellaozzydog (Dec 10, 2018)

Red Sky said:


> My point was that it wasn't anywhere near 15000.



Genuine question how do you gauge it? I thought it was a never ending snake of humanity 

It did the job, the streets were filled with banners and signs from start point to finish. The other end were basically a static protest


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## Red Sky (Dec 11, 2018)

bellaozzydog said:


> Genuine question how do you gauge it? I thought it was a never ending snake of humanity
> 
> It did the job, the streets were filled with banners and signs from start point to finish. The other end were basically a static protest



They marched from Hyde Park . I can gauge because I've been on a few of these things.


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