# Anti UKIP protest 'Tell Farage to Fek off' - April 23rd Gateshead



## The Black Hand (Apr 22, 2014)




----------



## butchersapron (Apr 22, 2014)

Who's banned smoking?


----------



## D'wards (Apr 22, 2014)

I don't think they want to end the NHS, but privatise aspects I think.  I'm a bit dubious if people start exagerating this stuff cos of their own political opposition, they are getting into Daily Mail tactics surely.

I am anti UKIP but prefer to make up my mind based on the facts rather than hyperbole


----------



## D'wards (Apr 22, 2014)

Although i do think people who vote for UKIP on immigration matters don't really care about other aspects, like the economy for example. Which is probably the most important aspect of government, and these nobs will only ruin it even more


----------



## J Ed (Apr 22, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> Who's banned smoking?



Or grammar schools for that matter. Almost all schools in Lincolnshire are still grammar schools.

Also Farage has said he won't repeal equal marriage.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2014)

Its like Germany in the 1930s in slow motion


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2014)

The39thStep said:


> Its like Germany in the 1930s in slow motion




so we can look forward to the month of the long knives where Moncton and his ilk are killed by farange and his party loyalists


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> so we can look forward to the month of the long knives where Moncton and his ilk are killed by farange and his party loyalists


 
Definitely could be a purge on the entryist ex Marxists for Griffin faction


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 22, 2014)

can someone please explain to me the supposed leftist opposition to smokers which is very prominently highlighted in this campaign ,that Ive little doubt  cameron clegg and miliband wil be more than happy with. Hitler would like that bit too.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 22, 2014)

We don'y know this is organised by leftists - it doesn't give any clues as to who is calling it.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 22, 2014)

Yeah smoking never went away. I'm smoking right now in fact!


----------



## D'wards (Apr 22, 2014)

Also, if there's one thing that the prison service needs its extra funding. My work means I have a lot of contact with the HMPs, and they have been running dangerously close to capacity for many years now.
Cramped conditions make it (more) miserable for the inmates and leads to more instances of trouble and unrest.
Dunno why anyone would oppose this in principle, although it could be argued that its because UKIP will be locking a lot more people up for a lot longer i suppose.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 22, 2014)

not for smoking in the pub though


----------



## cantsin (Apr 22, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> can someone please explain to me the supposed leftist opposition to smokers which is very prominently highlighted in this campaign ,that Ive little doubt  cameron clegg and miliband wil be more than happy with. Hitler would like that bit too.



as a long suffering weekend / "social" / etc smoker, deffo not against "smokers, and not actually convinced by this anti UKIP demo generally, but I think highlighting the longstanding collusion between the Tory Right/UKIP/Libertarian Right etc and the filthy Tobacco Multinationals is always fair game . Its a shitty drug pumped full of extra cancerous, profit producing crap by a particularly murderous sector of Big Biz, and feckwit Farage's pro-smoking grandstanding is embarassing/needs calling out.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 22, 2014)

Not a vote changer yay or nay though


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 22, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> We don'y know this is organised by leftists - it doesn't give any clues as to who is calling it.


Some sort of slavic nationalists going by the username?


----------



## classicdish (Apr 22, 2014)

butchersapron said:


> We don'y know this is organised by leftists - it doesn't give any clues as to who is calling it.


*Is it North East Anti Fascists maybe? https://www.facebook.com/NorthEast.AntiFascists*


----------



## muscovyduck (Apr 22, 2014)

So the problem with this is that they've turned every argument against UKIP into an oversimplified slogan.


----------



## krink (Apr 22, 2014)

it's a left/labour thing as far as i can tell from the event page on faceache.


----------



## Gerry1time (Apr 23, 2014)

D'wards said:


> UKIP will be locking a lot more people up for a lot longer i suppose.



Despite them standing for drug legalisation. One of the reasons UKIP are doing well is that it's really hard to pigeonhole them using the categories the mainstream parties have settled on over the last few decades. They'd be a car crash if elected of course, but they raise interesting questions about the way we've all come to think of the political divides in this country.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

cantsin said:


> as a long suffering weekend / "social" / etc smoker, deffo not against "smokers, and not actually convinced by this anti UKIP demo generally, but I think highlighting the longstanding collusion between the Tory Right/UKIP/Libertarian Right etc and the filthy Tobacco Multinationals is always fair game . Its a shitty drug pumped full of extra cancerous, profit producing crap by a particularly murderous sector of Big Biz, and feckwit Farage's pro-smoking grandstanding is embarassing/needs calling out.



im opposed to the anti smoking laws. I think a grown adult should have a choice when they go into a pub whether they smoke or not, or whether they go in or not. And pubs shpuld be able to choose whether they permit or not. Like they have done since pubs were first invented.
They arent health spas, they arent gyms. Theyre pubs. There is fuck all in there thats good for you. And adults should simply have a choice. Its a ridiculous law, its like your mum or your schoolteacher following you into the pub . I wholeheartedly agree with farages opposition to it, not just as a smoker but as a grown adult . And if we are going to be consistently left wing then Smirnoff Diageo and wetherspoons need banned too then. Because thats bad for you .


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 23, 2014)

krink said:


> it's a left/labour thing as far as i can tell from the event page on faceache.



Yep looks like it Alliance for Workers Liberty/Labour Left types...


----------



## emanymton (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> im opposed to the anti smoking laws. I think a grown adult should have a choice when they go into a pub whether they smoke or not, or whether they go in or not. And pubs shpuld be able to choose whether they permit or not. Like they have done since pubs were first invented.
> They arent health spas, they arent gyms. Theyre pubs. There is fuck all in there thats good for you. And adults should simply have a choice. Its a ridiculous law, its like your mum or your schoolteacher following you into the pub . I wholeheartedly agree with farages opposition to it, not just as a smoker but as a grown adult . And if we are going to be consistently left wing then Smirnoff Diageo and wetherspoons need banned too then. Because thats bad for you .


Side issue, but the main problem I have with all that is it ignores the staff who have to work in those conditions. It is essentially a workplace health and safety issue as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 23, 2014)

I can understand why this Serbian group are anti UKIP but in my experience there are a lot of pro smoking Serbs


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

emanymton said:


> Side issue, but the main problem I have with all that is it ignores the staff who have to work in those conditions. It is essentially a workplace health and safety issue as far as I'm concerned.



fine, so before you work there the publican has to tell you whether or not its a smoking or non smoking pub. And if its a health and safety issue then concerned staff can even be issued with full face 3M masks like I have to wear at work for health and safety issues.


----------



## cantsin (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> im opposed to the anti smoking laws. I think a grown adult should have a choice when they go into a pub whether they smoke or not, or whether they go in or not. And pubs shpuld be able to choose whether they permit or not. Like they have done since pubs were first invented.
> They arent health spas, they arent gyms. Theyre pubs. There is fuck all in there thats good for you. And adults should simply have a choice. Its a ridiculous law, its like your mum or your schoolteacher following you into the pub . I wholeheartedly agree with farages opposition to it, not just as a smoker but as a grown adult . And if we are going to be consistently left wing then Smirnoff Diageo and wetherspoons need banned too then. Because thats bad for you .



as a smoker, the pub ban helped me wean off auto-drink/smoke axis massively, am sure its the same for many other smokers, and even more non smokers...no going back for youse/Nige/Forest/IEA  on this one, adults or not.

As for being "consistently left wing" ....am deffo up for banning W Spoons, Smirmff not so much...we could draw up a list


----------



## tony.c (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> im opposed to the anti smoking laws. I think a grown adult should have a choice when they go into a pub whether they smoke or not, or whether they go in or not. And pubs shpuld be able to choose whether they permit or not. Like they have done since pubs were first invented.
> They arent health spas, they arent gyms. Theyre pubs. There is fuck all in there thats good for you. And adults should simply have a choice. Its a ridiculous law, its like your mum or your schoolteacher following you into the pub . I wholeheartedly agree with farages opposition to it, not just as a smoker but as a grown adult . And if we are going to be consistently left wing then Smirnoff Diageo and wetherspoons need banned too then. Because thats bad for you .


 
You have a choice whether you drink alcohol or not. You don't get secondary liver damage because of other people drinking. That's the difference.
And you don't come out of a pub smelling of someone else's booze. Unless they've spilled it on you, or thrown it over you.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> im opposed to the anti smoking laws. I think a grown adult should have a choice when they go into a pub whether they smoke or not, or whether they go in or not. And pubs shpuld be able to choose whether they permit or not. Like they have done since pubs were first invented.
> They arent health spas, they arent gyms. Theyre pubs. There is fuck all in there thats good for you. And adults should simply have a choice. Its a ridiculous law, its like your mum or your schoolteacher following you into the pub . I wholeheartedly agree with farages opposition to it, not just as a smoker but as a grown adult . And if we are going to be consistently left wing then Smirnoff Diageo and wetherspoons need banned too then. Because thats bad for you .


 
Wow...where to start.

1. opposition to anti-smoking laws...really?...including thsoe relating to age limits and advertising?

2. grown adults should simply have a choice...would that be a free choice or one constrained by circumstances beyond their control?

3. like they have done since pubs were first invented...and of course there have been no significant social, economic or cultural changes since the invention of the pub...lets just carry on as we always have because that has worked out so well.

4. it's like your mum or your school teacher...not really...it's more like your social conscience/recognition for responsibility to more that your own self interest following you into the pub...taking care of other people who want to use the pub, work in in the pub maybe take their kids there.

Not so much casually red as thoughtlessly selfish.

Louis MacNeice


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

tony.c said:


> You have a choice whether you drink alcohol or not. You don't get secondary liver damage because of other people drinking. That's the difference.
> And you don't come out of a pub smelling of someone else's booze. Unless they've spilled it on you, or thrown it over you.



if people are smoking in it and you dont like it then dont go into it, its pretty simple. And how it works in most of the world.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Wow...where to start.
> 
> 1. opposition to anti-smoking laws...really?...including thsoe relating to age limits and advertising?
> 
> ...



a pubs no place for kids. If you want some socially la dee deh healthfood creche of a pub then go to one. People who want something different should have that choice too .


----------



## tony.c (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> And how it works in most of the world.


Less and less these days fortunately.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

thats called imperialism


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> if people are smoking in it and you dont like it then dont go into it, its pretty simple. And how it works in most of the world.



It's not just the customers though it's the staff who work there too and there's less choice in that.  I accept it was poorly thought out for things like shisha cafes as many closed down due to the ban but I am in favour of the law overall.  Perhaps if there was some democracy in the work place the staff members could choose whether they wanted to allow smoking or not but there isn't.


----------



## tony.c (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> thats called imperialism


Or liberation.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> im opposed to the anti smoking laws. I think a grown adult should have a choice when they go into a pub whether they smoke or not, or whether they go in or not. And pubs shpuld be able to choose whether they permit or not. Like they have done since pubs were first invented.
> They arent health spas, they arent gyms. Theyre pubs. There is fuck all in there thats good for you. And adults should simply have a choice. Its a ridiculous law, its like your mum or your schoolteacher following you into the pub . I wholeheartedly agree with farages opposition to it, not just as a smoker but as a grown adult . And if we are going to be consistently left wing then Smirnoff Diageo and wetherspoons need banned too then. Because thats bad for you .


And the people who don't smoke who have to breathe smoke in?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2014)

Staff should be the ones who vote.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2014)

iirc private members clubs tried to get exemption based on members voting to smoke but that got kyboshed because they have employees. Fair enough.

iirc you can still have a smoke in the HoC bar which seems to be a bit of a pisstake. I mean, in the scheme of things its minor, but its just another fuck-you to everyone else


----------



## emanymton (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> fine, so before you work there the publican has to tell you whether or not its a smoking or non smoking pub. And if its a health and safety issue then concerned staff can even be issued with full face 3M masks like I have to wear at work for health and safety issues.


Yeah 'if you don't like it fuck off and get another job' is a great left wing position. 

And face masks, in a pub, really?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 23, 2014)

emanymton said:


> Yeah 'if you don't like it fuck off and get another job' is a great left wing position.
> 
> And face masks, in a pub, really?


They should count themselves lucky - on another thread he's justifying the real life torture and murder of someone with different politics.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 23, 2014)

There is no way the ban on smoking in workplaces will be repealed.

But I think there is still quite a bit of resentment/nostalgia about it, along with a perceived erosion of "our way of life". So it makes sense for UKIP to campaign on it.

Not a great platform for anti-UKIP campaigns though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2014)

part an parcel with the whole 'were being run by diktat from brussels/the council/etc'  line. Also its red tape and I'm pretty certain ukip are against that


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 23, 2014)

tony.c said:
			
		

> You have a choice whether you drink alcohol or not. You don't get secondary liver damage because of other people drinking. That's the difference.
> And you don't come out of a pub smelling of someone else's booze. Unless they've spilled it on you, or thrown it over you.



You don't with cigarettes either. Unless you travelled to the pub in a time machine.


----------



## tony.c (Apr 23, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> You don't with cigarettes either. Unless you travelled to the pub in a time machine.


I don't have a Tardis, but I do have a memory, and I remember coming out of pubs with my clothes stinking like an ashtray.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 23, 2014)

tony.c said:
			
		

> I don't have a Tardis, but I do have a memory, and I remember coming out of pubs with my clothes stinking like an ashtray.



Oh is Farrage wanting cigs in pubs again then? I think publicans/drinkers should be given the choice.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> a pubs no place for kids. If you want some socially la dee deh healthfood creche of a pub then go to one. People who want something different should have that choice too .


 
Nice of you to address one of my four points, albeit just with assertion and stereotype...care to have another go at defending your particular brand of self centred conservatism?

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> thats called imperialism


 
Or clutching at contrarian straws. You might to look at the Institute for Ideas; you'd keep all your desired 'edginess', minus the third international baggage...give it a go, you might like it.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> And the people who don't smoke who have to breathe smoke in?



they can go out and sit in the little fucking bantustans outside they created for us and we will leave them alone . If they like fresh air that much they should go out and sit in it . Breathe it in to their little hearts content.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Or clutching at contrarian straws. You might to look at the Institute for Ideas; you'd keep all your desired 'edginess', minus the third international baggage...give it a go, you might like it.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice



horseshit. I travel when i get the chance. Most normal countries you can still smoke in pubs. Even when the law supposedly said no. Theres no problem smoking in most pubs in Germany, the people there just didnt stand for it. Sensible compromises were made. Institute and edginess fuck all. It bloody killed pubs. Its a pain in the arse over here now.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

tony.c said:


> Or liberation.



one mans freedom fighter..etc


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> they can go out and sit in the little fucking bantustans outside they created for us and we will leave them alone . If they like fresh air that much they should go out and sit in it . Breathe it in to their little hearts content.


 
Oh I see now; the whole thing is just an act. Apologies for the intrusion; I'll leave you alone with your pretend anger and fag end soviet nostalgia.

Cheerio - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Awesome Wells (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> they can go out and sit in the little fucking bantustans outside they created for us and we will leave them alone . If they like fresh air that much they should go out and sit in it . Breathe it in to their little hearts content.



Why should non smokers be inconvenienced? The default state of being is that people don't smoke and don't breathe out the refuse. Surely if that's what you want to do, that's your responsibility to process. 

I really don't see how anyone can argue about personal freedom, as Farage liekes to do, when you're making the immediate environment unpleasant for others.

If cigarettes were entirely self contained, I'd have no problem.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Oh I see now; the whole thing is just an act. Apologies for the intrusion; I'll leave you alone with your pretend anger and fag end soviet nostalgia.
> 
> Cheerio - Louis MacNeice



how difficult is this for you to understand ? In other parts of europe grown adults have a choice. Its as simple as that. Theres only one pub over here I can still smoke in. Another that sort of let you after 12 oclock. One I was in last week with over 30 people in the smoking area and about 4 in the bar..bloody ridiculous.  Id simply like that choice to be widened.
Nothing to with nostalgia, I can still actually do it of occasion. But if I was in Berlin I could do it all the time, because the ban wasnt accepted.
Nothing to do with the soviets. Everything to do with people having an actual say and being able to retain one of lifes small pleasures.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 23, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:


> Why should non smokers be inconvenienced? The default state of being is that people don't smoke and don't breathe out the refuse. Surely if that's what you want to do, that's your responsibility to process.
> 
> I really don't see how anyone can argue about personal freedom, as Farage liekes to do, when you're making the immediate environment unpleasant for others.
> 
> If cigarettes were entirely self contained, I'd have no problem.


 
It's traditional like high rates of infant mortality and short life expectancy...so we should all embrace it and shut up whining...I suggest we go further and dig up the drains and water pipes so we can start to take personal responsibility for our own sanitation...if you don't like it you don't have to do it.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> how difficult is this for you to understand ? In other parts of europe grown adults have a choice. Its as simple as that. Theres only one pub over here I can still smoke in. Another that sort of let you after 12 oclock. One I was in last week with over 30 people in the smoking area and about 4 in the bar..bloody ridiculous.  Id simply like that choice to be widened.
> Nothing to with nostalgia, I can still actually do it of occasion. But if I was in Berlin I could do it all the time, because the ban wasnt accepted.
> Nothing to do with the soviets. Everything to do with people having an actual say and being able to retain one of lifes small pleasures.


 
I'm not the one with the difficulty understanding. All I'm pointing out is your selfishness (smoking in a confined space is intrinsically selfish...you don't do it in a car with kids, you don't do it in a pub with bar staff neither of whom are genuinely free to walk away from the situation), which you are trying to portray as some sort of liberation struggle; it's a mildly amusing act but surely you're not serious?

Louis MacNeice


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

im after telling you i do do it in bars..as do a lot of others ...can you read ?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> im after telling you i do do it in bars..as do a lot of others ...can you read ?


 
What are you whining about then?


----------



## DownwardDog (Apr 23, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> thats called imperialism



Lenin was vehemently anti smoking once he packed in. He didn't allow smoking in the train from Lac de Genève to the Finlandski Vokzal. Edmund Wilson said so.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

DownwardDog said:


> Lenin was vehemently anti smoking once he packed in. He didn't allow smoking in the train from Lac de Genève to the Finlandski Vokzal. Edmund Wilson said so.



and look what happened next


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2014)

James the first of England was also notoriously anti-smoking. As evidenced in his piece 'a counterblast to tobacco'


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 23, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> James the first of England was also notoriously anti-smoking. As evidenced in his piece 'a counterblast to tobacco'


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 23, 2014)

Awesome Wells said:
			
		

> Why should non smokers be inconvenienced? The default state of being is that people don't smoke and don't breathe out the refuse. Surely if that's what you want to do, that's your responsibility to process.



Why does everything have to be one or the other? Either smoke everywhere or smoke nowhere. Why can't there be smoking pubs and non smoking ones?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 23, 2014)

us tokers lost this argument years ago.


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Apr 23, 2014)

Smoking and non-smoking Railway carriages those who wanted to smoke sat in the smokers those who didnt want to smoke sat in the non-smokers simples and everyone was happy untill someone went for overkill and banned the lot


----------



## SikhWarrioR (Apr 23, 2014)

The Black Hand said:


>




So it looks like there is no real difference between UKIP and the conservatives then


----------



## classicdish (Apr 24, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> iirc you can still have a smoke in the HoC bar which seems to be a bit of a pisstake. I mean, in the scheme of things its minor, but its just another fuck-you to everyone else


Not true: http://www.publications.parliament....d/cm070611/text/70611w0004.htm#07061114000542


> *Palace of Westminster: Smoking
> Mr. Dai Davies:* To ask the hon. Member for North Devon, representing the House of Commons Commission whether legislation covering smoking in
> *11 Jun 2007 : Column 736W*
> public places will be applied to the Palace of Westminster and all its outbuildings within the Parliamentary estate. [141621]
> ...


----------



## krink (Apr 24, 2014)

a gang of edl turned up. apparently ukip's new footsoldiers?


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Oh I see now; the whole thing is just an act. Apologies for the intrusion; I'll leave you alone with your pretend anger and fag end soviet nostalgia.
> 
> Cheerio - Louis MacNeice



a guy who signs of every last post with cheers Louis Macniece accusing someone else of pretentiousness

piss off Louis MacNiece . Cheers.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> us tokers lost this argument years ago.



we never got to have it . It was a done deal and everyone turned over . In Germany they didnt , it was seen as authoritarian and there was a big social and legal scrap and now people have a choice . Warning on the door, _enter at your own risk_ for the pubs that permit it. Works well as far as I can see .


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Why does everything have to be one or the other? Either smoke everywhere or smoke nowhere. Why can't there be smoking pubs and non smoking ones?



because that might smack of not everybody complying with an edict . There wouldnt be a hunted minority then . A _them_ to look down your nose at . They controlled everybody .


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> we never got to have it . It was a done deal and everyone turned over . In Germany they didnt , it was seen as authoritarian and there was a big social and legal scrap and now people have a choice . Warning on the door, _enter at your own risk_ for the pubs that permit it. Works well as far as I can see .



Did the people who work in these pubs have a say or just the people who run the pubs?


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> because that might smack of not everybody complying with an edict . There wouldnt be a hunted minority then . A _them_ to look down your nose at . They controlled everybody .



The biggest kick in the knackers is standing in the freezing cold huddled in a doorway and having them walking past tutting and wafting their noses. Or getting a nice table in the beer garden in the summer and the fuckers following you out there and doing their sarcastic coughs there too. 

You wanted us out there, so tough shit.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Did the people who work in these pubs have a say or just the people who run the pubs?



are you saying people who work in pubs get a say ?

I work in a chemical plant . If theres something nasty in the atmosphere Im required to wear  a face mask, for 12 hours at a time barring breaks . I dont get a say in it, even though I chose to work there knowing there would be .  Why are they superior to me and not forced to wear one ? Why am I not allowed to say that stuff shouldnt be in my workplace ? Wheres my say ?


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> The biggest kick in the knackers is standing in the freezing cold huddled in a doorway and having them walking past tutting and wafting their noses. Or getting a nice table in the beer garden in the summer and the fuckers following you out there and doing their sarcastic coughs there too.
> 
> You wanted us out there, so tough shit.



non smokers should be banned from beer gardens . Fuck off with that the cunts


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> The biggest kick in the knackers is standing in the freezing cold huddled in a doorway and having them walking past tutting and wafting their noses. Or getting a nice table in the beer garden in the summer and the fuckers following you out there and doing their sarcastic coughs there too.
> 
> You wanted us out there, so tough shit.



How often does this actually happen though? Someone wafting their nose at me has happened once in the 16 years I've been smoking.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> How often does this actually happen though? Someone wafting their nose at me has happened once in the 16 years I've been smoking.



they do it behind your back


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> are you saying people who work in pubs get a say ?
> 
> I work in a chemical plant . If theres something nasty in the atmosphere Im required to wear  a face mask, for 12 hours at a time barring breaks . I dont get a say in it, even though I chose to work there knowing there would be .  Why are they superior to me and not forced to wear one ? Why am I not allowed to say that stuff shouldnt be in my workplace ? Wheres my say ?



What a ridiculous response.  So people working minimum wage jobs in pubs should wear a face mask because you're too up your own arsehole to pop outside and pump your own body with shit? Too arrogant and just want to make some sort of spurious 'don't tell me what to do' point and pollute someone else's working and leisure environment and put their health at risk? I mean fuck it why stop at pubs? Why not bring back smoking on buses too while we're at it? We can have smoking and non smoking buses. If the driver and other passengers don't like it then fuck 'em they can just wear face masks. I like to light up in the morning with my coffee.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> How often does this actually happen though? Someone wafting their nose at me has happened once in the 16 years I've been smoking.



Louloubelle  used to always moan about people smoking _outside_! 

The other downside is you always get the procession of ponces parading past wanting handouts. I'm not against giving a couple of folk a spare ciggie, but not half my bloody pack.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> they do it behind your back



Like I give a fuck? I don't know about it so I don't care. Smoking is a filthy fucking habbit, you know it and I know it. It's full of shit and produced by the worst kinds of capitalists going. I don't know why you're defending it really. As a smoker I'm perfectly fine with the smoking ban.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> What a ridiculous response.  So people working minimum wage jobs in pubs should wear a face mask because you're too up your own arsehole to pop outside and pump your own body with shit?



Of course nobody on minimum wage smoke and would hate the thought of being able to light up on the job in the warm.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> What a ridiculous response.  So people working minimum wage jobs in pubs should wear a face mask because you're too up your own arsehole to pop outside and pump your own body with shit? Too arrogant and just want to make some sort of spurious 'don't tell me what to do' point and pollute someone else's working and leisure environment and put their health at risk? I mean fuck it why stop at pubs? Why not bring back smoking on buses too while we're at it? We can have smoking and non smoking buses. If the driver and other passengers don't like it then fuck 'em they can just wear face masks. I like to light up in the morning with my coffee.



I asked you before. Whats wrong with wearing a face mask ? Im expected to in my job...so are all the other lads  . Why are they superior to us ? Whats wrong with it ?


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Like I give a fuck? I don't know about it so I don't care. Smoking is a filthy fucking habbit, you know it and I know it.* It's full of shit and produced by the worst kinds of capitalists going.*



Wow. So is drinking. Maybe avoid pubs altogether then?


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Louloubelle  used to always moan about people smoking _outside_!
> 
> The other downside is you always get the procession of ponces parading past wanting handouts. I'm not against giving a couple of folk a spare ciggie, but not half my bloody pack.



It's never really happened to me personally and those people can do one, frankly.  Pushing me outside is a compromise and one I'm happy to make.  The ponces I just say no to.


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

He's not dead so it wasn't a success.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Wow. So is drinking. Maybe avoid pubs altogether then?



How many times does it need to be said? Me having a pint harms no one else. Me having a fag does. I really don't get how you can so vehemently defend smoking.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> He's not dead so it wasn't a success.



whens the one against Miliband ?


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> I asked you before. Whats wrong with wearing a face mask ? Im expected to in my job...so are all the other lads  . Why are they superior to us ? Whats wrong with it ?



You're making a ridiculous comparison and you know it. Do you want me to spell out to you why it's ridiculous or shall we just leave it there?


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> How many times does it need to be said? Me having a pint harms no one else. Me having a fag does. I really don't get how you can so vehemently defend smoking.



You said it like alcohol isn't produced by capitalists. Alcohol has major social and health issues tied with it too.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> You're making a ridiculous comparison and you know it. Do you want me to spell out to you why it's ridiculous or shall we just leave it there?



no, explain it . People in fast food outlets and kitchens have to wear hats . Ive to wear a mask . It goes with loads of jobs . Its a minor inconvenience at most . So why are barstaff superior .


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> You said it like alcohol isn't produced by capitalists. Alcohol has major social issues tied with it too.



I avoid city centres at night because of alcohol, not fags .


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> You said it like alcohol isn't produced by capitalists. Alcohol has major social issues tied with it too.



I agree alcohol is produced by scum capitalists and causes serious social problems. I'm all for compromises and regulation on that too. We're discussing smoking though.


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> whens the one against Miliband ?



When are you free?


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> I agree alcohol is produced by scum capitalists and causes serious social problems. I'm all for compromises and regulation on that too. We're discussing smoking though.



We were discussing smoking in pubs. We also drink in pubs.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> We were discussing smoking in pubs. We also drink in pubs.



a lot of people regard that as a filthy habit . Banned outright in a lot of countries .


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> How many times does it need to be said? Me having a pint harms no one else. Me having a fag does. I really don't get how you can so vehemently defend smoking.



Taken as whole your drinking does harm many people who are behind you in a&e queue theoretically.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> no, explain it . People in fast food outlets and kitchens have to wear hats . Ive to wear a mask . It goes with loads of jobs . Its a minor inconvenience at most .



So you honestly want your beer served to you by someone wearing a face mask? Gas mask in fact if they wanna fully protect themselves because you can't handle being told what to do? You work in a chemical plant, a place solely for producing chemicals, bar staff work in bars a place solely for serving drinks and food, not having to suck in fumes from the selfish habits of po faced morons.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> a lot of people regard that as a filthy habit . Banned outright in a lot of countries .



More harmful than passive smoking if someone glasses you when all brave after a couple.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> Taken as whole your drinking does harm many people who are behind you in a&e queue theoretically.



That's obvious isn't? Why even go there? That happens to some people some times. Every time someone has a fag around someone they're damaging themselves and other people, every time, without fail.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> More harmful than passive smoking if someone glasses you when all brave after a couple.



Oh come on this is pathetic. Are we really doing 'well some people get drunk and violent therefore booze is worse than smoking?'


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> That's obvious isn't? Why even go there? That happens to some people some times. Every time someone has a fag around someone they're damaging themselves and other people, every time, without fail.



Sorry but I took you as implying that having a "drink" was harmless. Is that not what you're saying?


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Oh come on this is pathetic. Are we really doing 'well some people get drunk and violent therefore booze is worse than smoking?'



I don't see you making the argument that alcohol should be regulated  in some way because of the dangers it poses.


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Oh come on this is pathetic. Are we really doing 'well some people get drunk and violent therefore booze is worse than smoking?'



Alcohol isn't the problem its(with all respect) the individual that uses it. This applies to all drugs IMO.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> Sorry but I took you as implying that having a "drink" was harmless. Is that not what you're saying?



No what I'm saying is me having a couple of pints is only harming myself through effects of ill health.  I might harm other people if I drink far too much and turn into a violent twat. I've never done that, been a twat yes but not a violent one that harmed anyone else, required emergency services and so on.  However, every time I smoke a fag I'm harming myself and the health of anyone in the vicinity of me regardless of how few I smoke, the more I smoke the more I harm myself and others. Not only that I make other people's clothes and hair stink, cough, hurt their eyes etc. None of this happens to other people as a result of me drinking a pint or two.


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I don't see you making the argument that alcohol should be regulated  in some way because of the dangers it poses.



Its already regulated I'm sure.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> Its already regulated I'm sure.



Clearly not sufficiently if it's still causing problems?


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> Alcohol isn't the problem its(with all respect) the individual that uses it. This applies to all drugs IMO.



Of course but you can't say that with smoking in a place packed with other people.


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> No what I'm saying is me having a couple of pints is only harming myself through effects of ill health.  I might harm other people if I drink far too much and turn into a violent twat. I've never done that, been a twat yes but not a violent one that harmed anyone else, required emergency services and so on.  However, every time I smoke a fag I'm harming myself and the health of anyone in the vicinity of me regardless of how few I smoke, the more I smoke the more I harm myself and others. Not only that I make other people's clothes and hair stink, cough, hurt their eyes etc. None of this happens to other people as a result of me drinking a pint or two.



That's OK then!


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

And only the sale of is regulated. Not the consumption.


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Clearly not sufficiently if it's still causing problems?



Ban it for me mate.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I don't see you making the argument that alcohol should be regulated  in some way because of the dangers it poses.



Well yeah because we're not talking about the dangers of alcohol and should it be regulated and so on. Start another thread if you wanna do that. We could go on forever if we start bringing other drugs into this conversation. Let's just stick with fags for now, agreed?


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> Ban it for me mate.



I'm anarchist. Banning things doesn't work.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> So you honestly want your beer served to you by someone wearing a face mask? Gas mask in fact if they wanna fully protect themselves because you can't handle being told what to do? You work in a chemical plant, a place solely for producing chemicals, bar staff work in bars a place solely for serving drinks and food, not having to suck in fumes from the selfish habits of po faced morons.



I dont give a fuck what they wear as long as they serve me my drink and give me the correct change . Ive to wear a mask . People who work with food have to wear gloves, hats, beard nets, hair nets . People who work on building sites or in warehouses are issued hard hats .
And I go into a pub specifically to be selfish . To relax , to socialise , to wind down and have me time indulging myself with the products on offer there . They dont . They go there to work just like me and many others go to our workplaces and have to wear stuff for health and safety reasons. Its a pain in the hole but it goes with the job

so why are they superior to all of us ?


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Of course but you can't say that with smoking in a place packed with other people.



Ban cigarettes too IMO. They truelly are dangerous, whereas the illegal drugs cause very little harm and would cause even less harm if production was regulated.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Well yeah because we're not talking about the dangers of alcohol and should it be regulated and so on. Start another thread if you wanna do that. We could go on forever if we start bringing other drugs into this conversation. Let's just stick with fags for now, agreed?



Yes boss. I still don't see why it should be ALL pubs where smoking is forbidden.


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> I'm anarchist. Banning things doesn't work.



Quite. I smoke myself for the record.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Yes boss. I still don't see why it should be ALL pubs where smoking is forbidden.



Nor do I if the staff who work there had a say in it but they don't.


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Nor do I if the staff who work there had a say in it but they don't.



Oh, don't know why we're arguing then.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> I dont give a fuck what they wear as long as they serve me my drink and give me the correct change . Ive to wear a mask . People who work with food have to wear gloves, hats, beard nets, hair nets . People who work on building sites or in warehouses are issued hard hats .
> And I go into a pub specifically to be selfish . To relax , to socialise , to wind down and have me time indulging myself with the products on offer there . They dont . They go there to work just like me and many others go to our workplaces and have to wear stuff for health and safety reasons. Its a pain in the hole but it goes with the job
> 
> so why are they superior to all of us ?



You're making a ridiculous straw man tbh. I'm sure you're smart enough to realise that.


----------



## Casually Red (Apr 24, 2014)

Its no more ridiculous than when someone first told me theyre actually banning smoking in pubs . And no more ridiculous than when I saw OAPs standing in the driving rain and snow outside pubs . And no more ridiculous than when I actually saw pubs closing down all over the place for the first time in my life, and Im no spring chicken .


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> Its no more ridiculous than when someone first told me theyre actually banning smoking in pubs . And no more ridiculous than when I saw OAPs standing in the driving rain and snow outside pubs . And no more ridiculous than when I actually saw pubs closing down all over the place for the first time in my life, and Im no spring chicken .



Yeah see I personally don't buy the argument that pubs have closed down because of the smoking ban. The evidence for that argument is extremely mixed AFAIK.


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Yeah see I personally don't buy the argument that pubs have closed down because of the smoking ban. The evidence for that argument is extremely mixed AFAIK.



Ye, it coincided with "recession"


----------



## Citizen66 (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> We could go on forever if we start bringing other drugs into this conversation. Let's just stick with fags for now, agreed?



Don't derail the topic... which was actually about UKIP!


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

Citizen66 said:


> Don't derail the topic... which was actually about UKIP!



Haha yeah I was thinking that when I wrote it


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Apr 24, 2014)

amonkeyscousin? said:


> Ye, it coincided with "recession"



Yeah that and massive competition from cut price chains and city centre bars offering cheap drinks offers, things like that. The pubs that have largely gone to the wall are your typical local ones, which is sad but it's no different to high streets having revenue sucked out of them by online shopping and big, out of town shopping centres. Everybody wants to, rightly, lament the cut throat brutality of capitalism but we as customers have a responsibility by spending a quid or so extra on your pint and drinking less. Most people don't do that though and then get upset when pubs or local shops close without realising they could have prevented the closure or, at least, prolong its life for a bit.


----------



## amonkeyscousin? (Apr 24, 2014)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Yeah that and massive competition from cut price chains and city centre bars offering cheap drinks offers, things like that. The pubs that have largely gone to the wall are your typical local ones, which is sad but it's no different to high streets having revenue sucked out of them by online shopping and big, out of town shopping centres. Everybody wants to, rightly, lament the cut throat brutality of capitalism but we as customers have a responsibility by spending a quid or so extra on your pint and drinking less. Most people don't do that though and then get upset when pubs or local shops close without realising they could have prevented the closure or, at least, prolong its life for a bit.



Of course it was local pubs that didn't have the chain to subsidise them.


----------



## Sweet FA (Apr 25, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> Most normal countries you can still smoke in pubs


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 27, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> a guy who signs of every last post with cheers Louis Macniece accusing someone else of pretentiousness
> 
> piss off Louis MacNiece . Cheers.



I haven't accused you of pretentiousness; just of being a self important idiot...which you are.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 27, 2014)

Casually Red said:


> are you saying people who work in pubs get a say ?
> 
> I work in a chemical plant . If theres something nasty in the atmosphere Im required to wear  a face mask, for 12 hours at a time barring breaks . I dont get a say in it, even though I chose to work there knowing there would be .  Why are they superior to me and not forced to wear one ? Why am I not allowed to say that stuff shouldnt be in my workplace ? Wheres my say ?



Because your conditions are bad so should everybody else's be...Casually Red, the selfish conservative proudly leading the race to the bottom.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------

