# Brixton's Club 414 - closure, news, discussion



## Rushy (Jun 27, 2015)

Looks like the 414's days are numbered .

http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=NQCLFWBO03I00

I assume Market Row Limited (the applicant) is part of LAP?


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## Dan U (Jun 27, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Looks like the 414's days are numbered .
> 
> http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=NQCLFWBO03I00
> 
> I assume Market Row Limited (the applicant) is part of LAP?


Fucks sake. 

Proper institution that place, predating pretty much everyone on this board except the Brixton lifers. 

Should imagine there will be a big outpouring in the techno/hard dance/trance community past and present in London and further a field 

It predates even the rave scene based on a conversation I once had with T.


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## editor (Jun 27, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Looks like the 414's days are numbered .
> 
> http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=NQCLFWBO03I00
> 
> I assume Market Row Limited (the applicant) is part of LAP?


Oh FFS. Will there be nothing left? Let me chat to them to find out more and move this to a new thread.


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## editor (Jun 27, 2015)

Apparently the owners only found out last night. 

I want to start a petition but want to make sure it's worded as effectively as possible. Can anyone help with the text?


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## xes (Jun 27, 2015)

"get the fuck off our fucking 414 you fucking arseholes"

will that do?

This is proper sad, the 414 is a sacred venue. (good luck with getting the petition sorted)


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## Rushy (Jun 27, 2015)

From what I've heard - admittedly not even secondhand - there may be other issues. I'm not sure whether the planning application itself is actually the threat here. May be worth holding off on wording a petition until this is clearer.

That shouldn't stop people objecting to the application and loss of a club site in principle.


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## editor (Jun 27, 2015)

Rushy said:


> From what I've heard - admittedly not even secondhand - there may be other issues. I'm not sure whether the planning application itself is actually the threat here. May be worth holding off on wording a petition until this is clearer.
> 
> That shouldn't stop people objecting to the application and loss of a club site in principle.


That's kind of what I was thinking. Maybe you could PM me the things you've heard because I've been told some stuff too....


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## editor (Jun 27, 2015)

Seems pertinent: 



> *End of the party: how police and councils are calling time on Britain’s nightlife*
> 
> The people who run bars and clubs are often reluctant to talk, for fear of irritating the authorities on whom they depend for their licence. Off the record, one big player in London’s night-time economy tells me about the endless perverse consequences of what has recently happened. Installing ID scanners and metal detectors, he says, is hardly the best way of creating the relaxed atmosphere most conducive to running a successful and peaceful bar. Panic about Romanian crime gangs, he goes on, has meant that some establishments now see a passport from that country as a reason not to let its holder inside, despite the fact that most Romanians will obviously not have any criminal intentions.
> 
> ...



http://www.theguardian.com/music/20...-police-council-strangling-night-time-economy


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## equationgirl (Jun 27, 2015)

One of the biggest clubs in Glasgow has just been forced to close, the arches. Seems nobody is allowed to have fun anymore.


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## Smick (Jun 27, 2015)

Soon there will be nothing left. I lived in Brixton from 2008-10 and have been in Tulse Hill ever since, so am probably part of the blow in type, but I loved it when we lived there and it's barely recognisable any more.


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## slightlytouched (Jun 27, 2015)

Noooooooo !   Just.....NO! Love that place.


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## Twattor (Jun 27, 2015)

The tenant part of me thinks "what the fuck?" and then the tenant part of me reminds me to watch my arse.


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## ddraig (Jun 27, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Looks like the 414's days are numbered .
> 
> http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=NQCLFWBO03I00
> 
> I assume Market Row Limited (the applicant) is part of LAP?


is the  as you're not making any cash out of it?


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## 5t3IIa (Jun 27, 2015)

ddraig said:


> is the  as you're not making any cash out of it?


Oh, will you stop? You're a tip-top candidate for Forced Ignore IMO.


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## Orang Utan (Jun 27, 2015)

Ended up there more than a few times in the late 90s/early 00s.
My abiding memory of that place, apart from the fishtank in the dark and the staircase, is giving a pill to a mate, getting caught by the bouncer and asking me what i'd just passed to my mate, me saying that i'd given him a fiver i owed him, then the bouncer asking me 'ok, why did he put it in his mouth then?'


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## ddraig (Jun 27, 2015)

5t3IIa said:


> Oh, will you stop? You're a tip-top candidate for Forced Ignore IMO.


no
funny how some things deserve saving and others don't eh! pick and choose pick and choose 

go ahead and ignore me! fill yer boots


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## Twattor (Jun 27, 2015)

Never been there, and tbh would never have heard of it if it wasn't for the forums generally. Fairly sure it isn't my cup of tea, but I've been living here for quite a few years and will always support establishments which are beneficial to the community.


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## Dan U (Jun 27, 2015)

ddraig said:


> is the  as you're not making any cash out of it?


Do we always have to do this mate?


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## Dan U (Jun 27, 2015)

Twattor said:


> Never been there, and tbh would never have heard of it if it wasn't for the forums generally. Fairly sure it isn't my cup of tea, but I've been living here for quite a few years and will always support establishments which are beneficial to the community.


In a couple of scenes in the rave community it is a genuinely legendary venue going back a good 20 years 

Plus the more recent wider forays in to jazz etc that editor has written about. 

I've only spoken to him twice but the owner is a really decent guy.


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## Twattor (Jun 27, 2015)

Dan U said:


> In a couple of scenes in the rave community it is a genuinely legendary venue going back a good 20 years
> 
> Plus the more recent wider forays in to jazz etc that editor has written about.
> 
> I've only spoken to him twice but the owner is a really decent guy.



Another example of the adversarial approach to landlord tenant relations. I'm sure there are better ways of managing things; ultimately it is all game theory.


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## ddraig (Jun 27, 2015)

Dan U said:


> Do we always have to do this mate?


not always, done it 2 maybe 3 times now, just turning the tables a little!
that poster may have me on ignore anyway

great shame about the 414, banging club


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## Dan U (Jun 27, 2015)

ddraig said:


> not always, done it 2 maybe 3 times now, just turning the tables a little!
> that poster may have me on ignore anyway
> 
> great shame about the 414, banging club


Don't think there is any ulterior motive by Rushy 

Maybe I a more grumpy cos of what it is and who it is!

Should think all the liberator and London techno crew will be up in arms, if the know yet.


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## DietCokeGirl (Jun 27, 2015)

Objection lodged.


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## magneze (Jun 27, 2015)

Wtf


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## editor (Jun 27, 2015)

ddraig said:


> is the  as you're not making any cash out of it?


Please don't disrupt this thread. The 414 is important to a lot of people.


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## editor (Jun 27, 2015)

I would urge posters to lodge a complaint here. 
http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...iveTab=neighbourComments&keyVal=NQCLFWBO03I00


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## brixtonblade (Jun 27, 2015)

editor said:


> I would urge posters to lodge a complaint here.
> http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...iveTab=neighbourComments&keyVal=NQCLFWBO03I00


On what grounds? Not being funny but remember reading on the boards that objections have to be about the proposal fitting with policy rather than expressing a preference against something happening. 
(and I'd be happy to object if given the right wording.  Ta)


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## Mr Retro (Jun 27, 2015)

Heard shit things about how this was handled from somebody that knows what they are talking about this evening. 

I was never in there because the hard hose techno thing wasn't my gig. However I was always impressed by the victims that could stagger out at any point of the clock, Monday to Sunday, any day of the year. 

I'm sad Kaff is closing. But the 414 being closed is way worse - another side of the coin that's closing The Canterbury which for me is the worst and most senseless of all. Real old parts of Brixton gone.


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## Dan U (Jun 27, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Heard shit things about how this was handled from somebody that knows what they are talking about this evening.
> 
> I was never in there because the hard hose techno thing wasn't my gig. However I was always impressed by the victims that could stagger out at any point of the clock, Monday to Sunday, any day of the year.
> 
> I'm sad Kaff is closing. But the 414 being closed is way worse - another side of the coin that's closing The Canterbury which for me is the worst and most senseless of all. Real old parts of Brixton gone.


It's yet another all night venue in London lost, so many gone. 

Clubbing was a big part of my life, along with squat parties, for most of the nineties and in to the 00s.

Even places I never went to because they weren't my bag I mourn on the wider point of the homogenisation of night life. 

It's a much wider issue than Brixton


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## tommers (Jun 27, 2015)

Boo.


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## David Clapson (Jun 27, 2015)

I spoke to Tony of the 414. He's fighting it and wants lots of objections to the planning application.


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## Dan U (Jun 28, 2015)

Will object on Monday when I have time at a work machine, for all the good it will do


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## blossie33 (Jun 28, 2015)

Really  sorry to hear this, I've  been to some great nights at the 414.

Word is being passed around, I saw Ed's Brixton Buzz article posted by Louise +1 on Facebook this morning.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 28, 2015)

Used to practically live in there 20 years ago....My son's mum worked the door. Had many many bonkers days and nights at the 414. Used to love Sunday night to Monday mornings.....was that Nuclear Free? Many a brain cell ruined in the 414. Was pleased to see at the recent aftershow how little it had changed and that they still put snacks and fruit out for weary ravers.

414, like the Canterbury, are blood vessels feeding life into the heart of Brixton. Brixton will still have a heart beyond all this destruction, but it will beat slower and with less energy.

Chnage isn't something I worry too much about, but this slashing and burning of Brixton cornerstones is crushing.

Very sad times.


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## Lizzy Mac (Jun 28, 2015)

I had great fun jogging past the people exiting yesterday at 10am.


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## twentythreedom (Jun 28, 2015)

Gutted  I must've DJed there at least 50 times between 1995 and 2002 - so many awesome memories of that place.

Fuck Lambeth


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## David Clapson (Jun 28, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> Gutted  I must've DJed there at least 50 times between 1995 and 2002 - so many awesome memories of that place.
> 
> Fuck Lambeth


Is it anything to do with Lambeth?


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## friendofdorothy (Jun 28, 2015)

Another place I've never been to. Back in my clubbing days (that was a long time ago) it was far too straight for me to consider it. I might have gone along recently for the after party the other week but as a non-driving over 50 yr old (ie no photo ID), obviously I would have been allowed in. 

Oh well, now I never will.


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## twentythreedom (Jun 28, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Is it anything to do with Lambeth?


Fuck knows tbh. Fuck whoever. Cunts


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## Rushy (Jun 28, 2015)

39 objections so far. Well, 38 plus one eedjit who wrote an objection but has clicked "supports".

I can't see any planning reason for this not to go through, sadly. The proposal ticks all the boxes and night club uses are not protected in any way.


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## Rushy (Jun 28, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Would you expect there to be? I think the complaint is very recent, so perhaps the council hasn't investigated it yet.


Only if the applicant knew about it and thought it would bolster their argument.


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## editor (Jun 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> But it means I'm speculating, expressing a wish to know about something...the logical inference is that I don't know.


I don't want to labour this point, but simply inferring or suggesting something could still be seen as defamatory, so it's something I tend to be wary of.


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## David Clapson (Jun 29, 2015)

I suspect that behind all this there's nothing sinister - it's just that the market owners have been assessing how to make more money from the site. They know how much rent they could get if the site was let to a retailer, they may have a retail tenant lined up. Now Tony has to match the retail rent. Presumably he's been paying much less and has had a nasty surprise.

eta. Rather than become an expert in defamation law I've deleted some posts - editor, please feel free to tidy up! I don't think my speculation was contributing anything tbh.


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## leanderman (Jun 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> I suspect that behind all this there's nothing sinister - it's just that the market owners have been assessing how to make more money from the site. They know how much rent they could get if the site was let to a retailer, they may have a retail tenant lined up. Now Tony has to match the retail rent. Presumably he's been paying much less and has had a nasty surprise.



Plus the value of the to-be-constructed flats - business premises are increasingly being sacrificed for housing. 

Londoners are eating, while London is eating itself


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## 8ball (Jun 29, 2015)

414 - club not found


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## editor (Jun 29, 2015)

8ball said:


> 414 - club not found


It's here: http://club414.org/


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## 8ball (Jun 29, 2015)

editor said:


> It's here: http://club414.org/



Ah, there it is.

Think I was mixing it up with club 404.


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## Gramsci (Jun 29, 2015)

brixtonblade said:


> On what grounds? Not being funny but remember reading on the boards that objections have to be about the proposal fitting with policy rather than expressing a preference against something happening.
> (and I'd be happy to object if given the right wording.  Ta)



I have read the covering letter in the docs on the planning application.

As Rushy says I cannot find concrete objection in planning terms to oppose this so far.

In the covering letter the applicant says they have been discussing this application ( pre application discussions with planning officers). That Council say ( that is the planning officers):

"The Council pre application letter confirmed that the replacement of the nightclub use with retail would not conflict in land use terms. The application now proposes the flexibility to implement either retail of food/drink use elements which are in accordance with the adopted policies. The Council also accepted the use of residential use in the upper floors." (page 3)


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## Gramsci (Jun 29, 2015)

Its also easier in planning terms to change from nightclub to another use than the other way around.


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## Gramsci (Jun 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> I suspect that behind all this there's nothing sinister - it's just that the market owners have been assessing how to make more money from the site. They know how much rent they could get if the site was let to a retailer, they may have a retail tenant lined up. Now Tony has to match the retail rent. Presumably he's been paying much less and has had a nasty surprise.
> 
> .



Its not that. It turning the upstairs into flats that would make the money.


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## David Clapson (Jun 29, 2015)

So why go for a change of use on the ground floor?


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## editor (Jun 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> So why go for a change of use on the ground floor?


Because having an all night club on the ground floor would be too vibrant for the nu-residents.


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## David Clapson (Jun 29, 2015)

Right. Could we protect the 414 by getting it listed? Or just by applying for a listing?


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## editor (Jun 29, 2015)

I'm not happy seeing these potentially defamatory rumours and suggestions concerning the venue next door being posted here so I'm going to delete them. Please keep all discussion about the 414.


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## elmpp (Jun 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Because having an all night club on the ground floor would be too vibrant for the nu-residents.


Or anyone else


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## editor (Jun 29, 2015)

elmpp said:


> Or anyone else


Except the night club _already exists_. 

If you want the quiet of the suburbs, fuck off back to the suburbs and don't move in next to a nightclub that has been operating for 30 years.


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## elmpp (Jun 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Except the night club _already exists_.
> 
> If you want the quiet of the suburbs, fuck off back to the suburbs and don't move in next to a nightclub that has been operating for 30 years.


You've lost me

I'm just saying I doubt there's many people who would live above an all night nightclub, except in this case the owners


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## editor (Jun 29, 2015)

elmpp said:


> You've lost me
> 
> I'm just saying I doubt there's many people who would live above an all night nightclub, except in this case the owners


But there appears to be plenty of people who are happy to move right next door to pubs and clubs in gentrifying and trendy 'vibrant' areas and then set about complaining about the existing noise until they've closed the places down.


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## elmpp (Jun 29, 2015)

editor said:


> But there appears to be plenty of people who are happy to move right next door to pubs and clubs in gentrifying and trendy 'vibrant' areas and then set about complaining about the existing noise until they've closed the places down.


Wouldn't that make them "nu" by default, on account of them moving in? 

Sounds like the complaints are coming from established residents/businesses so don't know what you're saying in this regard


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## editor (Jun 29, 2015)

Anyway, let's keep this to what we know and what is on on topic, and that is the planning application.


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## Twattor (Jun 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Because having an all night club on the ground floor would be too vibrant for the nu-residents.



Not necessarily. You can beef up the soundproofing to an extent that you can't hear a thing. The difficult bit is always the outside smoking area and queuing/dispersal. 

This country really needs a law that prevents incomers complaining about an existing nuisance.


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## Orang Utan (Jun 29, 2015)

editor said:


> I don't want to labour this point, but simply inferring or suggesting something could still be seen as defamatory, so it's something I tend to be wary of.


imply, not infer. sorry to be pedantic, but a writer implies, and a reader infers.


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## David Clapson (Jun 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Except the night club _already exists_.
> 
> If you want the quiet of the suburbs, fuck off back to the suburbs and don't move in next to a nightclub that has been operating for 30 years.


<ed: removed:. See post #60>


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## David Clapson (Jun 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Except the night club _already exists_.
> 
> If you want the quiet of the suburbs, fuck off back to the suburbs and don't move in next to a nightclub that has been operating for 30 years.


Or fuck off back to Poland, as appropriate.


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## editor (Jun 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Or fuck off back to Poland, as appropriate.


See post #60.


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## David Clapson (Jun 29, 2015)

Noise complaints, which can deprive the 414 of its licence, are very much ON topic. This thread is about who's for the 414 and who's against it.


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## editor (Jun 29, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Noise complaints, which can deprive the 414 of its licence, are very much ON topic. This thread is about who's for the 414 and who's against it.


The 414's future is not in doubt over noise issues. That has been resolved to the council's satisfaction.  It is in doubt because of the planning application to turn it in to a restaurant and (no doubt) luxury flats.


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## David Clapson (Jun 29, 2015)

Why don't you just be honest and explain why you're operating double standards?


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## Dan U (Jun 30, 2015)

https://www.change.org/p/lambeth-co...publish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-no_msg

Link to a petition is here. I've signed it fwiw


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## innit (Jun 30, 2015)

Dan U said:


> https://www.change.org/p/lambeth-co...publish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-no_msg
> 
> Link to a petition is here. I've signed it fwiw


Signed. It's gathering signatures at a fair pace this morning


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 30, 2015)

Signed. The last person before me to sign it was 'Andy Carroll' - maybe it actually is that one given the pic of him off his tits that's been going round for a while.


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## Peanut Monkey (Jun 30, 2015)

Dan U said:


> https://www.change.org/p/lambeth-co...publish&utm_term=mob-xs-share_petition-no_msg
> 
> Link to a petition is here. I've signed it fwiw



Needs just one more signing to reach 1000. Not bad for just one day.


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## Dan U (Jun 30, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Signed. The last person before me to sign it was 'Andy Carroll' - maybe it actually is that one given the pic of him off his tits that's been going round for a while.


I'd like to say it was but it isn't. I know what that is!


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## cuppa tee (Jun 30, 2015)

I am wondering what would the consequences of the proposed change mean
for the Prince Albert pub [ and it's beer garden] 
if it was to suddenly find itself next door to residential properties ?


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## editor (Jun 30, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> I am wondering what would the consequences of the proposed change mean
> for the Prince Albert pub [ and it's beer garden]
> if it was to suddenly find itself next door to residential properties ?


I'd say all of Coldharbour Lane late night economy is under threat.

All of the club/bar owners know they're facing the growing threat of a 2am total close down along this stretch. I think things are going to get worse for Market House, Dogstar etc., although the notion that everyone will then go quietly home at 2am is extra fucking stupid.


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## CH1 (Jun 30, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> I am wondering what would the consequences of the proposed change mean
> for the Prince Albert pub [ and it's beer garden]
> if it was to suddenly find itself next door to residential properties ?


The beer garden would probably end up a gentile affair with early curfew, like The Trinity.


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## Winot (Jun 30, 2015)

CH1 said:


> The beer garden would probably end up a gentile affair with early curfew, like The Trinity.



No more room for the chosen people?


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## editor (Jun 30, 2015)

CH1 said:


> The beer garden would probably end up a gentile affair with early curfew, like The Trinity.


Or the Duke of Edinburgh. Remember the wonderful parties they used to have in their huge garden their before the nu-residents busied themselves lodging complaints about the over vibrancy of the vibrant pub they'd just moved right next to?

No wonder the Grosvenor guvnor got out before the shit could start.


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## CH1 (Jun 30, 2015)

Winot said:


> No more room for the chosen people?


My apologies - neuralogical spell check cannot engage before noon - GENTEEL


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## DJWrongspeed (Jun 30, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> I spoke to Tony of the 414. He's fighting it and wants lots of objections to the planning application.


Making an objection in the planning application carries more weight than the petition.
10-15yrs ago I'd say oh well it's had it's time. Now with so many clubs under threat it just seems to be vital that another licence is not lost. There's just no way it could move anywhere in Brixton is there let's face it?

Edit: didn't realise that Crucifix club , London Bridge, had close in April.


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## Rushy (Jun 30, 2015)

editor said:


> The 414's future is not in doubt over noise issues. That has been resolved to the council's satisfaction.


What has been resolved? I'm awfully confused by this. Was the post that a member of the Albert management team submitted a noise complaint against 414 true or fabricated?

Noise issues are unfortunately relevant to this application. Whilst no specific complaints have been referenced in the application, noise and it's effect on the amenity of neighbours *is* mentioned. The application says in its own support that the proposed use would have a less detrimental impact on neighbouring amenity. Any logged complaints are usually available internally. They often come up on searches too.


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## Rushy (Jun 30, 2015)

CH1 said:


> My apologies - neuralogical spell check cannot engage before noon - GENTEEL


It could have been worse.


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## editor (Jun 30, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Whilst no specific complaints have been referenced in the application...


Well, let's stick to what _is_ referenced in the application.


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## Rushy (Jun 30, 2015)

editor said:


> Well, let's stick to what _is_ referenced in the application.



Very selective quoting there.



Rushy said:


> Noise issues are unfortunately relevant to this application. Whilst no specific complaints have been referenced in the application, *noise and it's effect on the amenity of neighbours *is* mentioned.* The application says in its own support that the proposed use would have a less detrimental impact on neighbouring amenity. Any logged complaints are usually available internally. They often come up on searches too.



More intriguing by the minute.


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## Mr Retro (Jun 30, 2015)

editor said:


> Or the Duke of Edinburgh. Remember the wonderful parties they used to have in their huge garden their before the nu-residents busied themselves lodging complaints about the over vibrancy of the vibrant pub they'd just moved right next to?


I'd be interested to read proof of it being newcomers to that area of Ferndale road being the cause of complaints.


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## Rushy (Jun 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I'd be interested to read proof of it being newcomers to that area of Ferndale road being the cause of complaints.


Indeed. There's been plenty of discussion about this before.


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## Dan U (Jun 30, 2015)

editor said:


> Or the Duke of Edinburgh. Remember the wonderful parties they used to have in their huge garden their before the nu-residents busied themselves lodging complaints about the over vibrancy of the vibrant pub they'd just moved right next to?
> 
> No wonder the Grosvenor guvnor got out before the shit could start.


They were excellent.


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## editor (Jun 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I'd be interested to read proof of it being newcomers to that area of Ferndale road being the cause of complaints.


That was pretty much common knowledge at the time - the garden mini-festivals came to a crashing halt not long after the new flats opened up. In fact, a friend of mine knows one of the people who moved in and then complained - and he used to be a regular in the garden!

But no, I'm sorry, I'm unable to produce written statements and documentation. Why do you think the parties ended?


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## Mr Retro (Jun 30, 2015)

I can just speak from my experience. I lived on Bythorn Street. 

There were 2 people who got that area to put in objections and who were active in general getting people to lodge objections (my experience was mainly from the 24 hour drinking objections back then). That was a gentleman who lived on a house backing onto the Duke and the gentleman who was caretaker of the Almshouses at the time. Both were there well before the new flats. 

Now people in the flats may well have objected. But it was not them pitching up in the area that caused the first objections. It was going on well before that because nobody was in favour of the "mini-festivals" who lived close by. And who can blame them? 

I realise the above doesn't fit neatly into your "nu-residents" narrative but it's how it was.


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## Rushy (Jun 30, 2015)

Because the pub exploited the tolerance of the existing neighbours by increasing the size, loudness and frequency of the (admittedly fun) parties and then installed an enormous amplified outdoor sports screen, so that when they weren't listening to music they were listening to bloody match of the day.

Incidentally, the whilst posting this from beneath the shade of a tree, a pigeon shat on my hat. I think it must have been eating something purple.


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## David Clapson (Jun 30, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> I am wondering what would the consequences of the proposed change mean
> for the Prince Albert pub [ and it's beer garden]
> if it was to suddenly find itself next door to residential properties ?


That's a very good point. I'm already VERY fed up with being heaved out of the garden ridiculously early.   Fuck all these newcomer cunts. The other day there was a huge traffic jam in front of the old Brixton Cycles site while a fucking WAITROSE van sat in the bus stop for ages and ages while the driver carried fucktons of whatever to the residents of the new flats.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 30, 2015)

So is the 414 leased? Is the lease up?


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## 19sixtysix (Jun 30, 2015)

Has anyone started registering 414 as a community asset? That might be a good start to getting serious resistance in place.


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## Twattor (Jun 30, 2015)

19sixtysix said:


> Has anyone started registering 414 as a community asset? That might be a good start to getting serious resistance in place.



If I could double like that, I would. Mods?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 30, 2015)

19sixtysix said:


> Has anyone started registering 414 as a community asset? That might be a good start to getting serious resistance in place.



You mean an asset of community value? It couldn't hurt to try but it's pretty limited (bear in mind it was introduced by the Tories). All it gets you, even if it is granted, is the right to six months to come up with the cash as a community group if the owners put the building up for sale. I don't think there are many examples of that successfully being carried out and probably none that are nightclubs. And it wouldn't preserve the club as it is - your group would then need to actually run the club. It's a pretty hard sell.

ETA: Just been trying to find some figures. As of February this year, bearing in mind the legislation was brought in in 2011, there have been approx 1800 buildings listed, and a grand total of 11 community buyouts.


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## David Clapson (Jun 30, 2015)

Is it a valid objection to say that the new flats are not compatible with the Albert garden(s), as they will lead to future conflicts about noise?


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## Twattor (Jun 30, 2015)

I had a look at the petition this morning, and also a look at the application. 

There are loads of comments registered, but the vast majority only talk about the importance of 414 in their life.  Admirable, but a waste of time in planning world.

Planners can only consider aspects of non-compliance. If people want to object objectively, then they need to target defined areas of planning law.

The applicants have clearly consulted with planners as evidenced by the D&A. The case officer can't see obvious non compliance with legislation. 

I'm sure there is a policy about affecting the local area, implemented to stop massive industrial units etc in residental areas.

There have been a few comments on the database about affecting the local area. Tbh I don't think objectors stand a chance, simply as the planners cannot refuse an owner's application without good reason, but for a targeted approach then that is where I'd start.


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## 19sixtysix (Jun 30, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> You mean an asset of community value? It couldn't hurt to try but it's pretty limited (bear in mind it was introduced by the Tories). All it gets you, even if it is granted, is the right to six months to come up with the cash as a community group if the owners put the building up for sale. I don't think there are many examples of that successfully being carried out and probably none that are nightclubs. And it wouldn't preserve the club as it is - your group would then need to actually run the club. It's a pretty hard sell.
> 
> ETA: Just been trying to find some figures. As of February this year, bearing in mind the legislation was brought in in 2011, there have been approx 1800 buildings listed, and a grand total of 11 community buyouts.



The Vauxhall Tavern community is trying to get the pub listed building status including its long term gay community use as part of the heritage. It's all about reducing the value of the building. The owners are campaigning against it.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 30, 2015)

19sixtysix said:


> The Vauxhall Tavern community is trying to get the pub listed building status including its long term gay community use as part of the heritage. It's all about reducing the value of the building. The owners are campaigning against it.



Well if someone wants to properly take it on then brilliant. I'd support them fully. 

That said if all you're aiming to do is reduce the value of the building it seems a bit pointless. Obviously the owners will be against it as they'd rather be able to sell it freely without the six month delay, but they can sell it anyway eventually (and there's nothing to say they have to let the club remain as it is in the meantime). And unless the group who've registered it is seriously going to try and raise the funds what have you achieved of you do reduce the value of the building? As far as I can see just a bonus for whoever ends up buying it.

So the real question - is anyone really up for campaigning hard to raise several hundred thousand pounds at least on behalf of the club? Someone with the skills to actually make it happen? Like I say if so then brilliant, I'd even consider chipping in if it looked realistic. It's just something that gets chucked around a lot without any real intent.

As an aside I think the RVT is an ideal candidate for actually making it work. The gay community is a lot more well defined and I reckon includes a fair number of people with a strong connection to the place and available funds. I'm not so sure about the 414.


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## Twattor (Jun 30, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> (bear in mind it was introduced by the Tories).



Is this actually factually correct?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 30, 2015)

Twattor said:


> Is this actually factually correct?



It was the coalition (I'll leave it to you to decide if you think that makes a difference.) It was a bit of a token piece of legislation from when they were still pretending to care about the 'Big Society' after they got elected.


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## Twattor (Jun 30, 2015)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It was the coalition (I'll leave it to you to decide if you think that makes a difference.) It was a bit of a token piece of legislation from when they were still pretending to care about the 'Big Society' after they got elected.



I like to think it does. The country was fucked at the time; it needed someone to be the bad guy, and needed a tempering influence. Coalition rules.


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## CH1 (Jun 30, 2015)

19sixtysix said:


> The Vauxhall Tavern community is trying to get the pub listed building status including its long term gay community use as part of the heritage. It's all about reducing the value of the building. The owners are campaigning against it.


Who are the owners? It used to be owned by Lambeth Council.


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## 19sixtysix (Jun 30, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Who are the owners? It used to be owned by Lambeth Council.



It was bought from lambeth a few years back because lambeth wanted to bulldoze it. Recently sold on again to a company who are eyeing it up for development.


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## Favelado (Jul 1, 2015)

editor said:


> Or the Duke of Edinburgh. Remember the wonderful parties they used to have in their huge garden their before the nu-residents busied themselves lodging complaints about the over vibrancy of the vibrant pub they'd just moved right next to?
> 
> No wonder the Grosvenor guvnor got out before the shit could start.



Is that the one on Ferndale Road? Is it shut down or did they just piss on their parties?


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## SpamMisery (Jul 1, 2015)

Duke is still open. Just the parties stopped


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## Ms T (Jul 1, 2015)

When we were looking to buy a house in 2003, we looked at one on Ferndale Rd, a few doors away from the Duke of Edinburgh.  One of the factors in us ruling it out was the noise from the pub garden.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 1, 2015)

Twattor said:


> There are loads of comments registered, but the vast majority only talk about the importance of 414 in their life.  Admirable, but a waste of time in planning world.



Have you any ideas, I was thinking more from a cultural point of view perhaps? but as you say that doesn't hold weight in planning. If they can approve the demolition of a grand Victorian pub, The Canterbury what hope?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 1, 2015)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Have you any ideas, I was thinking more from a cultural point of view perhaps? but as you say that doesn't hold weight in planning. If they can approve the demolition of a grand Victorian pub, The Canterbury what hope?



Maybe the one David Clapson  mentions above, that the flats might conflict with the Albert, might be possible? The Ministry of Sound have been having a running battle on that for a few years so it must have some weight at least? Although I suppose the fact that the beer garden closes much earlier might rule it out.


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## steeeve (Jul 1, 2015)

Thought this was interesting:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...n-deal-with-developer-over-noise-9043411.html


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## ddraig (Jul 1, 2015)

interesting but how many clubs have the deep pockets of ministry? (and connections etc)
they are also protecting their name, brand and right to release endless compilations for people who like "dance music", not just the building


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## editor (Jul 1, 2015)

ddraig said:


> interesting but how many clubs have the deep pockets of ministry? (and connections etc)
> they are also protecting their name, brand and right to release endless compilations for people who like "dance music", not just the building


It's not just their deep pockets that help - Ministry is _very_ well connected via its boss, James Palumbo.


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## ddraig (Jul 1, 2015)

yup indeed, added that after
the right sort of club owner


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## steeeve (Jul 1, 2015)

editor said:


> It's not just their deep pockets that help - Ministry is _very_ well connected via its boss, James Palumbo.



Just googled him - indeed very well connected!


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 1, 2015)

My 2pence worth of an objection, apologies if it's a bit inept. I'm no planning expert.



> As a long term Brixton resident I object to the change use. Coldharbour Lane is a vital part of the local night time economy. Adding the proposed "creation of three self-contained residential flats at first and second floors" may well have a damaging affect on at least two late licensed premises.
> 
> These flats will undoubtedly be bought or rented to new residents who may be unaware of the lively nature of the road and complain about the noise. Residents objections can often curtail local late licenses which goes against the nature of these local businesses.


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## equationgirl (Jul 1, 2015)

Twattor said:


> I had a look at the petition this morning, and also a look at the application.
> 
> There are loads of comments registered, but the vast majority only talk about the importance of 414 in their life.  Admirable, but a waste of time in planning world.
> 
> ...


In my experience of writing objections, getting hold of the relevant local plan is a good place to start. Does the planning application fit with the stated local plan? If not, where is it different? Is there an actual need for that type of building in that area? For example is there already too much private student accommodation?  Is there sufficient accommodation for families especially social housing? 

Other objections can be based around potential for increased noise and potential for increased traffic and therefore increased risk of danger to people due to increased traffic volume. Objections are also possible on environmental grounds or historic site grounds.

Best of luck.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 1, 2015)

steeeve said:


> Thought this was interesting:
> 
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...n-deal-with-developer-over-noise-9043411.html



The Ministry of Sound issue is very different. It was about flats being erected close to an existing venue.

The bizarre thing in the long running MoS saga is that there is now a big development plan concerning that whole quadrangle that includes a completely new MoS. So was all that campaigning really justified???


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## Greebo (Jul 2, 2015)

FAO those who do twitter and/or FB:   A thunderclap's been started to save the 414.


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## editor (Jul 2, 2015)

Greebo said:


> FAO those who do twitter and/or FB:   A thunderclap's been started to save the 414.


WTF is a "thunderclap"?

(No need for any wags to post up a pic of Mr Newman)


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## ddraig (Jul 2, 2015)

it is a timed tweety thing where people do it at the same time so it looks BIG and simply CAN'T be IGNORED!

e2a https://www.thunderclap.it/start#musician


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## Greebo (Jul 2, 2015)

editor said:


> WTF is a "thunderclap"?<snip>


What ddraig said, and it can be done on face ache as well as twatter.  Legally it's not binding, but it's one way of getting you heard.


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## Rushy (Jul 2, 2015)

To who? Saying what?


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## Greebo (Jul 2, 2015)

Rushy said:


> To who? Saying what?


There's a petition on change.org, to save the 414, for all the good it'll do, but twatter and face ache can pass on the details and get it far better coverage.  The virtual equivalent of a deputation to the council.


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## teuchter (Jul 2, 2015)

Looks like the petition is to Lambeth to refuse the planning application. But they can only refuse it on valid planning grounds. The petition doesn't suggest what they could be so seems a bit pointless.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 2, 2015)

There's a real outpouring of love for the venue on the planning application. It's quite touching what has been written. I just think of it as the old 414 that's always been there. Seems it really is a unique place in a big city.


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## Rushy (Jul 2, 2015)

Greebo said:


> There's a petition on change.org, to save the 414, for all the good it'll do, but twatter and face ache can pass on the details and get it far better coverage.  The virtual equivalent of a deputation to the council.


That petition is all very well but what are you hoping Lambeth Planning will do in response to it?

If planning were to turn down the application without a firm planning reason it will simply be appealed and lost, pointlessly costing thousands. And the club will still go.


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## Greebo (Jul 2, 2015)

Rushy said:


> That petition is all very well but what are you hoping Lambeth Planning will do in response to it?  <snip>


Don't have a go at me, I didn't start that thunderclap, nor am I relying on it.  If you've got better ideas, go ahead pass them on, and do something else.


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## Rushy (Jul 2, 2015)

Greebo said:


> Don't have a go at me, I didn't start that thunderclap, nor am I relying on it.  If you've got better ideas, go ahead pass them on, and do something else.


How was I having a you at you Greebo?


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## Greebo (Jul 2, 2015)

Rushy said:


> How was I having a you at you Greebo?


And now the passive aggression.


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## Rushy (Jul 2, 2015)

Greebo said:


> And now the passive aggression.


Sure. I'll leave you to it.


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## editor (Jul 2, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Looks like the petition is to Lambeth to refuse the planning application. But they can only refuse it on valid planning grounds. The petition doesn't suggest what they could be so seems a bit pointless.


Sometimes people do irrational and pointless things when something they love is threatened. Most people don't understand the planning process, but still want to express their emotions and register their dissatisfaction with this proposal.

If you have any practical advice it might be an idea to share it with those people.


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## David Clapson (Jul 2, 2015)

What's needed is a big campaign targeting the market owners, like the Save Nour campaign. Appeal to that French bloke who runs the parent company, get the BBC and the Standard interested....make the Save 414 campaign a continuation of the recent anti-gentrification protest. Get the London Black Revs involved.


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## Twattor (Jul 2, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> What's needed is a big campaign targeting the market owners, like the Save Nour campaign. Appeal to that French bloke who runs the parent company, get the BBC and the Standard interested....make the Save 414 campaign a continuation of the recent anti-gentrification protest. Get the London Black Revs involved.



Ultimately getting the applicant to change their mind is probably an approach with a reasonable chance of success; although if they've decided that the returns from 414 can be improved on by redevelopment then essentially you'd be asking them to take a financial penalty for no benefit to themselves.

In this country the planners can't refuse applications if they comply fully with all aspects of planning legislation.  In this case the fact that the applicant has gone through a pre-application process, received a formal response from the planners, and then impemented the changes they asked for suggests that the planners are broadly supportive of the proposals.

Even if the committee get caught up on a wave of public opinion and refuse, the applicant would be entitled to appeal to the planning inspectorate who then consider the case purely on the basis of law.  I believe any refusal at committee would inevitably be overturned on appeal.


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## leanderman (Jul 2, 2015)

Unless we find some other way of housing our growing population, these situations (business to residential) will become even more commonplace, and unavoidable. Until there are no clubs, pubs or workspaces left.


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## David Clapson (Jul 2, 2015)

Twattor said:


> Ultimately getting the applicant to change their mind is probably an approach with a reasonable chance of success; although if they've decided that the returns from 414 can be improved on by redevelopment then essentially you'd be asking them to take a financial penalty for no benefit to themselves.
> 
> In this country the planners can't refuse applications if they comply fully with all aspects of planning legislation.  In this case the fact that the applicant has gone through a pre-application process, received a formal response from the planners, and then impemented the changes they asked for suggests that the planners are broadly supportive of the proposals.
> 
> Even if the committee get caught up on a wave of public opinion and refuse, the applicant would be entitled to appeal to the planning inspectorate who then consider the case purely on the basis of law.  I believe any refusal at committee would inevitably be overturned on appeal.


I hear you. I think the only thing that might work is giving the market owners some bad PR. Then perhaps they would meet 414 half way. But could the 414 afford even a modest rent increase? It must be the world's smallest club. It can't be very profitable.


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## CH1 (Jul 2, 2015)

Just wanted to point out that the planning application is by Market Row Ltd, whereas the company running the market is Market Village Company Ltd.
It is Market Village Company Ltd which has a French connection, but may be nothing at all to do with the application. I don't feel tempted at this stage to do a Land Registry Search to find who actually owns the freehold - as I have to pay. Rushy?


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## Rushy (Jul 2, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Just wanted to point out that the planning application is by Market Row Ltd, whereas the company running the market is Market Village Company Ltd.
> It is Market Village Company Ltd which has a French connection, but may be nothing at all to do with the application. I don't feel tempted at this stage to do a Land Registry Search to find who actually owns the freehold - as I have to pay. Rushy?


I have to pay too, sadly. Pretty sure they are associated with or part of LAP who own the market.


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## CH1 (Jul 2, 2015)

Rushy said:


> I have to pay too, sadly. Pretty sure they are associated with or part of LAP who own the market.


So is LAP different from Market Village then? Look at the company info I uploaded - 
no obvious connection between Market Row Ltd and Market Village Company Ltd.
Looks to me that Market Row Ltd must be a property company whereas Market Village Company Ltd is a facilities management company.


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## Twattor (Jul 2, 2015)

CH1 said:


> So is LAP different from Market Village then? Look at the company info I uploaded -
> no obvious connection between Market Row Ltd and Market Village Company Ltd.
> Looks to me that Market Row Ltd must be a property company whereas Market Village Company Ltd is a facilities management company.


You don't need to be the owner to apply for planning, but if you've got half a brain you get a pretty strong legal agreement beforehand otherwise you're gifting them a value uplift at your risk and expense.


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## David Clapson (Jul 2, 2015)

According to this http://companycheck.co.uk/company/02229018/MARKET-ROW-LIMITED Market Row Ltd's web site is lap.co.uk, they have the same registered address and Market Row Ltd's company secretary is A.K. Thapar. And LAP's 2014 accounts say that Mr Thapar is their FD http://www.lap.co.uk/downloads/lap14.pdf.


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## CH1 (Jul 2, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> According to this http://companycheck.co.uk/company/02229018/MARKET-ROW-LIMITED Market Row Ltd's web site is lap.co.uk, they have the same registered address and Market Row Ltd's company secretary is A.K. Thapar. And LAP's 2014 accounts say that Mr Thapar is their FD http://www.lap.co.uk/downloads/lap14.pdf.


That's it - you've cracked it. Weird they have a coal mine in South Africa.


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## David Clapson (Jul 2, 2015)

Cor Blimey, look at this, I had no idea. It explains how Market Village Company Ltd came to be:



> *Uncertainty for traders as Brixton Village owners InShops goes bust*
> Written by Tim Dickens on January 17, 2014 in Business, Community, Council, News, Uncategorized - 6 Comments
> 
> Traders in Brixton’s covered markets have been left in confusion today, after news that former owners InShops has gone bust.
> ...


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## CH1 (Jul 2, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Cor Blimey, look at this, I had no idea. It explains how Market Village Company Ltd came to be:


I had seen that, so didn't check on LAP. Yet LAP say they own the premises (in that annual report - which is up to date).

So can anyone explain exactly what the arrangements are at Market Row?

I also wondered why the 414 site would be owned by Market Row Ltd. Back in the early 1980s it was empty, then squatted by Spartacus R - the Pan Africanist former member of Osibisa. I imagine the club came very shortly after the occupation was terminated by the police, in the traditional Brixton style.

Usually empty property that gets occupied belongs to the council. Maybe the council sold it to the Market company?


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## David Clapson (Jul 2, 2015)

For Market Row, LAP is the freeholder. They sold a lease to Groupe Geraud. Groupe Geraud's subsidiary, Market Village, does the management and fleeces the tenants.

What we don't know is whether 414 Coldharbour Lane is on the lease which LAP sold to Geraud. Is 414 Coldharbour Lane contiguous with the Market Row building?


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## CH1 (Jul 2, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> For Market Row, LAP is the freeholder. They sold a lease to Groupe Geraud. Groupe Geraud's subsidiary, Market Village, does the management and fleeces the tenants.
> 
> What we don't know is whether 414 Coldharbour Lane is on the lease which LAP sold to Geraud. Is 414 Coldharbour Lane contiguous with the Market Row building?


This is where Rushy would have come in. I thought he had free access to the Land Registry but apparently not.

The title for 414 is available here: https://eservices.landregistry.gov....RTZWFyY2guZG8!/#Z7_32841142H83670I5FG31T538V4

£3 in written form, and extra £3 if plan is required.


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## MHF (Jul 4, 2015)

Market Row Ltd is the registered owner of 414-416 Coldharbour Lane (lender is Abbey National Treasury Services Plc) and the company is a subsidiary of London & Associated Properties PLC.


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## CH1 (Jul 4, 2015)

MHF said:


> Market Row Ltd is the registered owner of 414-416 Coldharbour Lane (lender is Abbey National Treasury Services Plc) and the company is a subsidiary of London & Associated Properties PLC.


Well they bought it in  1999 apparently. Can't remember when LAP got involved with the market - perhaps at the same time?

A local campaign might have an effect, but not necessarily on the planning decision as Twattor says.

The area is getting full of restaurant applications. Rosa's Thai Cafe is due up at the planning committee on Tuesday. Residents managed to get a stay pending further information back in March, but the application is back with a recommendation to approve on 7th July.

If you ask me current Lambeth Planning thinking is completely business oriented - with business setting the agenda.


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## editor (Jul 4, 2015)

CH1 said:


> If you ask me current Lambeth Planning thinking is completely business oriented - with business setting the agenda.


All elements of social/community awareness in central Brixton seem to have evaporated in their quest to keep on rubberstamping new upmarket restaurants, business parks etc.


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## DJWrongspeed (Jul 20, 2015)

I think this is the last day for objections. Unfortunately some people have clicked 'Supports' rather than 'Objects' on the planning consultation even though their comments are all pro the club 

Here's someone who actually does 'Support' the redevelopment:



> I strongly support the renovation of this late-night venue to something that would better serve the community, as proposed.
> 
> The club may be popular, but it's under-used and this particular street with little traffic in the evenings and being poorly lit, makes a bad location for a late-night venue because it inevitably leads to undesirable elements. If the local police had the resources to monitor the situation then maybe Club 414 wouldn't have this negative impact on the area but unfortunately that's not the case.
> 
> This particular stretch of Coldharbour Lane has basically been set aside for drug deals and public urination. Any improvement to this road is hugely welcome.


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## CH1 (Jul 21, 2015)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I think this is the last day for objections. Unfortunately some people have clicked 'Supports' rather than 'Objects' on the planning consultation even though their comments are all pro the club
> 
> Here's someone who actually does 'Support' the redevelopment:


The comments seem to be about 20 years out of date, I would have thought.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2015)

CH1 said:


> The comments seem to be about 20 years out of date, I would have thought.


Why would you say that?


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## CH1 (Jul 21, 2015)

editor said:


> Why would you say that?


I was referring to the way the supporter quoted on the planning application says Coldharbour Lane is dangerous, urinated in and plagued by drug dealers (talking from memory).

I think its actually pretty safe at the moment and the urination issue applies to most of Brixton. I am probably very naive when it comes to spotting drug dealers, but it seems to me they are much less conspicuous now than in the 1990s say.

That is all I was saying about that comment.

As regards the planning application itself it is clear we are saturated with restaurants - as I said - at both planning meetings - in responding to the Rosa's Thai cafe application at 400 - 402 Coldharbour Lane.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I was referring to the way the supporter quoted on the planning application says Coldharbour Lane is dangerous, urinated in and plagued by drug dealers (talking from memory).


Ah right. Well, I'd say the urination levels are certainly higher than a decade ago although the street isn't as dangerous as it has been. There's still plenty of dealers about, although they seem to have changed their offerings to suit the area's new night time clientèle.


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## Winot (Jul 21, 2015)

editor said:


> Ah right. Well, I'd say the urination levels are certainly higher than a decade ago although the street isn't as dangerous as it has been. There's still plenty of dealers about, although they seem to have changed their offerings to suit the area's new night time clientèle.



You mean more coke less crack/horse?


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## ViolentPanda (Jul 21, 2015)

Winot said:


> You mean more coke less crack/horse?



The '70s are phoning and asking if they can have their heroin slang back, maaaan.


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## twentythreedom (Jul 21, 2015)

Winot said:


> You mean more coke less crack/horse?


Horse?  No one ever called it that ever, apart from badly written government literature


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## Rushy (Jul 21, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> Horse?  No one ever called it that ever, apart from badly written government literature


And Prince.


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## editor (Jul 21, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> According to this http://companycheck.co.uk/company/02229018/MARKET-ROW-LIMITED Market Row Ltd's web site is lap.co.uk, they have the same registered address and Market Row Ltd's company secretary is A.K. Thapar. And LAP's 2014 accounts say that Mr Thapar is their FD http://www.lap.co.uk/downloads/lap14.pdf.


Blimey:


> London & Associated Properties PLC (“LAP”) is a Main Market listed UK shopping centre and Central London retail property specialist which owns and manages £250m of property investments. The Group also holds a substantial investment in Bisichi Mining PLC, which operates coal mines in South Africa and owns UK property investments


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## twentythreedom (Jul 21, 2015)

Rushy said:


> And Prince.


Oh yeah, and Prince


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## editor (Jul 21, 2015)

Figures from the landlords.


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## Winot (Jul 22, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> Horse?  No one ever called it that ever, apart from badly written government literature





twentythreedom said:


> Oh yeah, and Prince



What? You mean Prince isn't from da streets?


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## Matt Rush (Jul 22, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Looks like the 414's days are numbered .
> 
> http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=NQCLFWBO03I00
> 
> I assume Market Row Limited (the applicant) is part of LAP?


I have been coming to the 414 aince 1992. It is 1 of Londons most iconic clubs and is known, not just locally and nationally but internationally. The club brings revenue to so many local businesses (including local shops restuarants, bars and cab companies) with its many clubbers that attend on a weekly basis. It is 1 of the only venues in London that cater for many specialized music genres. Each genre alone attracts crowds of followers to the area. The club is family run by T and Lou and they care about their attendees and look after everyone. The club to me and so many others is our 2nd home. T and Lou live at the premesis to, and have always helped out with local policing (using the clubs cctv) and done what they can to follow procedures incl. Having photo id entry and scanners etc. They have not only invested all their money into the club over the years, but also all their time and effort into making this iconic venue what it is today. To close this and the Markets surrounding it will be a huge loss to Brixtons heritage. The club is loved and supported by so many people and we are all willing to do what we can to stop the 414 from closing.


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## Gramsci (Jul 24, 2015)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I think this is the last day for objections. Unfortunately some people have clicked 'Supports' rather than 'Objects' on the planning consultation even though their comments are all pro the club
> 
> Here's someone who actually does 'Support' the redevelopment:






> I strongly support the renovation of this late-night venue to something that would better serve the community, as proposed.
> 
> The club may be popular, but it's under-used and this particular street with little traffic in the evenings and being poorly lit, makes a bad location for a late-night venue because it inevitably leads to undesirable elements. If the local police had the resources to monitor the situation then maybe Club 414 wouldn't have this negative impact on the area but unfortunately that's not the case.
> 
> This particular stretch of Coldharbour Lane has basically been set aside for drug deals and public urination. Any improvement to this road is hugely welcome.



As 414 used to be just down the road from I used to live I think this is bollocks. I certainly never saw 414 as having a bad effect on the street. ( and I am speaking as someone who did not use it).

I also agree with CH1 about the dealing. Or lack of it.


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## Indeliblelink (Aug 2, 2015)

*DJ MAG LAUNCHES SAVE OUR CLUBS CAMPAIGN*
http://www.djmag.com/content/dj-mag-launches-save-our-clubs-campaign


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## editor (Aug 18, 2015)

I've been sent this. Any thoughts?

The freeholders LAP have changed the town planning application to A1 only with the flats and have dropped the A3 & A5 use. Could this be a ploy to avoid the application going to committee - and is there any way that this change of mind can be utilised to help the 414? Seems all a bit underhand.


----------



## Rushy (Aug 18, 2015)

Not sure that makes sense. Original application was/is A1.


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## Twattor (Aug 18, 2015)

Agreed. Doesn't make sense. Nightclubs are Sui Generis, A3/5 is restaurants and takeaways which is closer to the current use, which would seem a more obvious tactic to get planning.  Saying that, planning departments seem to make it up as they go along these days, so are difficult to second guess.


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## Rushy (Sep 16, 2015)

Decision: Grant Permission

15/03548/FUL	 |			  Change of use from existing nightclub/bar with ancillary residential/office to ground floor use as retail (Use Class A1); the creation of three self-contained residential flats at first and second floors; and associated works including demolition of existing rear ground/first floor extensions, construction of new ground/first floor extensions with terraces above and installation of replacement double glazed timber framed front windows, and replacement timber shopfront.				  |																	  414 - 416 Coldharbour Lane London SW9 8LF

(Incidentally, the original application was indeed for A1/3/5 and 3 and 5 were dropped to satisfy objections).

Conditioned to close at 2300.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2015)

Devastating news. 

The end looms for Brixton’s Club 414 as Lambeth grants planning permission for private flats and retail unit


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## Belushi (Sep 16, 2015)

Not going to be many places left at this rate


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## Orang Utan (Sep 16, 2015)

bastards


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## laughalot (Sep 16, 2015)

...So disappointed with Lambeth Council Planning Department....
An on line petition with 2257 signatures from all over the world, two written petitions one with local shop keepers business' and residents (45) and another with night workers, shift workers and key worker (83), 443 objections on the actual planning site and a Lambeth Councillor. Policies from Lambeth UDP and the London Plan quoted for support for refusal.
Yet permission is granted without the application even going for discussion at a committee hearing.
Can this be right?


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## Dan U (Sep 16, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> bastards


This


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## editor (Sep 16, 2015)

It seems that every fucking place that is a bit different, or a bit old school, or a bit unfucked-about-with has to go. And it's fucking me off.


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## magneze (Sep 16, 2015)

Ffs


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## Orang Utan (Sep 16, 2015)

editor said:


> It seems that every fucking place that is a bit different, or a bit old school, or a bit unfucked-about-with has to go. And it's fucking me off.


totally. all these small, but vital niches in clubland. i wasn't in love with their music policy, but the space they occupy is so important. fill that niche in and it won't be a niche any more


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## brixtonblade (Sep 16, 2015)

laughalot said:


> ...So disappointed with Lambeth Council Planning Department....
> An on line petition with 2257 signatures from all over the world, two written petitions one with local shop keepers business' and residents (45) and another with night workers, shift workers and key worker (83), 443 objections on the actual planning site and a Lambeth Councillor. Policies from Lambeth UDP and the London Plan quoted for support for refusal.
> Yet permission is granted without the application even going for discussion at a committee hearing.
> Can this be right?



If the udp and London plan references are accurate then how come the application can go through?


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## editor (Sep 16, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> totally. all these small, but vital niches in clubland. i wasn't in love with their music policy, but the space they occupy is so important. fill that niche in and it won't be a niche any more


If you worked in one of Brixton's clubs, the 414 was just about the only place you could get a pint after work - and be let in for free.


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## T & P (Sep 16, 2015)

Bad week. First A&C and now this


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## Orang Utan (Sep 16, 2015)

A&C?


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## leanderman (Sep 16, 2015)

And, on cue, the Evening Standard chips in with a two-special on Brixton as a property hotspot:

Will jerk chicken give way to Boho chic?


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## Orang Utan (Sep 16, 2015)

leanderman said:


> And, on cue, the Evening Standard chips in with a two-special on Brixton as a property hotspot:
> 
> Will jerk chicken give way to Boho chic?


"Brixton used to be a cheap alternative to Clapham"
FUCK OFF


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## Rushy (Sep 16, 2015)

laughalot said:


> ...So disappointed with Lambeth Council Planning Department....
> An on line petition with 2257 signatures from all over the world, two written petitions one with local shop keepers business' and residents (45) and another with night workers, shift workers and key worker (83), 443 objections on the actual planning site and a Lambeth Councillor. Policies from Lambeth UDP and the London Plan quoted for support for refusal.
> Yet permission is granted without the application even going for discussion at a committee hearing.
> Can this be right?


Pretty sure I read that it did go to committee. Truth is there was not a valid objection in planning terms. Can't really blame the planning department. There is an explanation of the planning decision, including responses to objections, amongst the online documents.


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## DJWrongspeed (Sep 16, 2015)

if there's an closing party it needs to include the walls coming down.........


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## laughalot (Sep 16, 2015)

Well if it went to committee know one knew or were invited to attend. There were a few policies quoted that were ignored and not sure why. Thank you for pointing out that there is an explanation in the document section on the planning site. Without you we would not know anything. We will read these now.


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## T & P (Sep 17, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> A&C?


The Portuguese deli under the arches. Another Brixton institution being forced out.


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## David Clapson (Sep 17, 2015)

It's far too early to give up on the 414. Now the challenge is to persuade the landlord to renew the 414's lease. The landlord also owns Market Row and Brixton Village. There are lots of measures available to persuade them.


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## Belushi (Sep 17, 2015)

leanderman said:


> And, on cue, the Evening Standard chips in with a two-special on Brixton as a property hotspot:
> 
> Will jerk chicken give way to Boho chic?



“the new Clerkenwell"


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## Greebo (Sep 17, 2015)

T & P said:


> The Portuguese deli under the arches. Another Brixton institution being forced out.


I think he knows where it is, but was surprised to hear of somewhere so popular being in trouble.


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## Orang Utan (Sep 17, 2015)

Greebo said:


> I think he knows where it is, but was surprised to hear of somewhere so popular being in trouble.


I know it as the Portuguese deli. Always forget it's called A&C


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## Greebo (Sep 17, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> I know it as the Portuguese deli. Always forget it's called A&C


Similar here, because I don't need to know the name, just what the outside of it looks like, what it sells, and where it is.


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## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

Comment on my Facebook page: 


> Sad but totally unsurprising. Lambeth Planning have a history, under the current bunch of grinning wankers, of rolling over for developers, especially developers whose work changes the local demographic from "poor" to "wealthy". Ruining Brixton's culture doesn't matter to these barbarians.


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## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> It's far too early to give up on the 414. Now the challenge is to persuade the landlord to renew the 414's lease. The landlord also owns Market Row and Brixton Village. There are lots of measures available to persuade them.


Could you share some of them here? Given the fucking greed that's running rampant over Brixton, I can't say I'm too hopeful.


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## David Clapson (Sep 17, 2015)

Probably best if I talk to Tony first. It does look bleak. Putting the brakes on capitalism is like King Canute vs the sea. But let's not go down without a fight.


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## Rushy (Sep 17, 2015)

David Clapson said:


> Probably best if I talk to Tony first.


Yep. Was going to suggest this. Check there is nothing else going on.


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## xes (Sep 17, 2015)

Horrible news, I hope that something can be done to save the 414. There aren't many places like it around, getting fewer every year. 

Last party to go for a year or 2?


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## editor (Sep 17, 2015)

The piece on Buzz about the 414 has already been shared on Facebook 1.1k times, so it's clear that there's a lot of interest in this.


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## Twattor (Sep 18, 2015)

editor said:


> The piece on Buzz about the 414 has already been shared on Facebook 1.1k times, so it's clear that there's a lot of interest in this.



that's all well and good, but if someone who owns something decides they don't want to keep it in the existing format then why should they be dictated to by others with no interest other than memories?  if individuals without an interest are concerned about these institutions then unless there are grounds for objection on the basis of policy, the best recourse is trying to get them listed as a community asset.

I spoke to someone a couple of weeks ago who told me they'd been instrumental in obtaining planning permission resulting in the closure of an institution much lamented on these boards, but who expressed surprise that there had been virtually no meaningful objection during the year or so leading up to the grant of planning permission.  These things need to be approached tactically - the people trying to obtain permission engage experts and do their best to ensure policy is complied with thus reducing grounds for refusal; anyone objecting also needs to refer to policy to identify the breaches.  There was an excellent post somewhere here a few days ago which demonstrates exactly how to go about these things and which i'd love to link to, but can't for the life of me find it.


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## editor (Sep 18, 2015)

Twattor said:


> that's all well and good, but if someone who owns something decides they don't want to keep it in the existing format then why should they be dictated to by others with no interest other than memories?


Maybe because the people they now want to throw out on their arses were the very same people who had constantly and consistently generated income to fill their bank balance for the past 30 years when no one else wanted to touch the place?

It's all about unfashionable concepts like loyalty and looking after the people who have looked after you rather then the current Thatcherite 'what's in it for me/cash in quick' ideology. It's not just 'memories' either: the 414 has an active and loyal community who have all invested time and money into the place. They deserve better than this.

Oh and why no "no meaningful objections"? That's because ordinary people have no fucking idea how the planning system works, so it's completely stacked up against them from the start. But I'm sure your mate knows that and feels suitably smug about it if he's profiting from it. Why hasn't he piped up to help people here?


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## laughalot (Sep 18, 2015)

....Please you must excuse me with the way I am trying to word this reply....BUT...if Lambeth Planning Database for objections were to have 'Key Words' to flag where a policy might be used...would be very helpful for them to see when non planning people use a valid remark but can not quote a policy reference ...by which I mean...'loss of an amenity', 'night time economy', 'culture heritage', 'visitor attraction' 'community asset','local landmark.....I could go on... 
As I have gone through all the objections lodged, I see out of the 443 objections a few have quoted these 'Key' words which could be related to policies. Along with a few that have quoted the policy reference, to what they are saying.
I must add in closing that all the objections, to us, were very 'meaningful', and a big thank you goes out to each and everyone who took time to post them.


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## 19sixtysix (Sep 18, 2015)

Has anyone started the "asset of community value" process. Its seem like the first measure in protection of places these days.


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## CH1 (Sep 18, 2015)

editor said:


> Oh and why no "no meaningful objections"? That's because ordinary people have no fucking idea how the planning system works, so it's completely stacked up against them from the start. But I'm sure your mate knows that and feels suitably smug about it if he's profiting from it. Why hasn't he piped up to help people here?


You are right about this, but this application is somewhat like the one for Canterbury Arms, where a developer has spotted a large capital gain could be made. I do not think that even with clear understanding of Lambeth's retained UDP policies there was a straightforward way to block this development. The best argument I heard was the one to do with turning the 414 into residential would then jeopardise the Albert's use as an entertainment venue.

This possibly might have gone down with planning committee councillors - there are precedents elsewhere, though not in Lambeth I think.

The report shows no evidence that ward councillors were opposed to the scheme, or had asked for the case to go to committee, at least as far as I can see.   http://planning-docs.lambeth.gov.uk/AnitePublicDocs/00588254.pdf


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## laughalot (Sep 18, 2015)

.....oh but there was a Councillor.....along with an objection from Green King IPA for The Prince Albert too....


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## Gramsci (Sep 21, 2015)

Twattor said:


> that's all well and good, but if someone who owns something decides they don't want to keep it in the existing format then why should they be dictated to by others with no interest other than memories?  if individuals without an interest are concerned about these institutions then unless there are grounds for objection on the basis of policy, the best recourse is trying to get them listed as a community asset.



Like some other posters here I could not see any clear grounds to oppose the application in this case.

Having some experience of planning issues I think planning policy is limited in helping local communities have influence on what happens to there area.

Personally I think planning policy should be strengthened up so property owners can be dictated to.


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## Tolpuddle (Oct 23, 2015)

It has been suggested to me that 414 are challenging the planning decision by a judicial review, lets hope they get permission for a review and can then overturn it. A potentially very expensive process though.


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## Rushy (Oct 23, 2015)

Tolpuddle said:


> It has been suggested to me that 414 are challenging the planning decision by a judicial review, lets hope they get permission for a review and can then overturn it. A potentially very expensive process though.


Yep. I've heard this too. Although no one seems to have any idea what the grounds might be.


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## editor (Oct 23, 2015)

Tolpuddle said:


> It has been suggested to me that 414 are challenging the planning decision by a judicial review, lets hope they get permission for a review and can then overturn it. A potentially very expensive process though.


I'd be in to organise a benefit to help out, like I would for just about all of Brixton's old school pubs and clubs,


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## Tolpuddle (Oct 23, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Yep. I've heard this too. Although no one seems to have any idea what the grounds might be.



Grant of permission was made by officers under delegated powers despite high levels of public interest; 
whether the loss of the existing nightclub use was a consideration that should have been taken into account; and
whether the issue of noise impacts from licensed premises was dealt with properly.

A while ago there was a development planned close to the ministry of sound, this was likely to result in noise complaints etc from the new residents. Boris allowed the development but it was written in such a way that any residents will not be able to complain and will be made aware, in advance of the existence of the club.

Because they are applying for a JR it doesn't mean it will happen, a judge has to be convinced of the merits of the case & decides whether to allow it to go ahead or not.


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## Rushy (Oct 23, 2015)

Is a high level of interest grounds for it to have to be heard by committee? And then isn't it ultimately up to the committee chair to decide whether it goes before committee? IIRC they concluded that despite the volume, none of the objections were on valid planning grounds.

ETA ultimately, if the application were refused based on public opinion but there were no valid planning reason, it would get overturned at appeal and costs awarded against the council.


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## editor (Dec 20, 2015)

Encouraging news: 


> Club 414 Wins Permission for Judicial Review at the Royal Courts of Justice.
> 
> HELLO...HELLO....
> Guess what....we have been given permission for our 'Judicial Review' by the judge at the High Courts...He is not persuaded that the council has made the right decision and wants us all to appear in front of him...date still to be given ...BUT we have won the right to be heard ....so we can put our case forward for the planning permission that has been granted to be ‘quashed’....So the second round for our case to go forward is underway. The court process administration fees have all been paid, (from the two fund raising parties ‘Keeping the Vibe Alive and TransLucid). The ‘Judicial Review’ consent papers stamped and listed, just waiting the date.....YAY GO ALL OF US.....


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## Greebo (Dec 20, 2015)

editor said:


> Encouraging news:


I'm so glad to hear this.  Thanks for passing it on.


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## Dan U (Dec 21, 2015)

Just saw that on Facebook editor 

Great news. 

Lambeth is doing great with Jr's at the moment....


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 21, 2015)

Dan U said:


> Lambeth is doing great with Jr's at the moment....


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## Dan U (Dec 21, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


>


They must have a special naughty step at the high court


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 21, 2015)

Dan U said:


> They must have a special naughty step at the high court



Hopefully, down in the cells.


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## twentythreedom (Dec 21, 2015)

I so hope that place gets to live on. It's definitely one of London's greatest ever rave venues


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## editor (May 5, 2016)

Good news: Brixton’s Club 414 wins court battle with developers, but the fight for survival continues


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## DJWrongspeed (May 5, 2016)

Great news 

Wish they'd do more Jazz there, it was such a good space for it.


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## editor (May 19, 2016)

Lovely to read this: 

Historic Brixton nightclub saved – for now - Cornerstone Barristers


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## CH1 (May 19, 2016)

editor said:


> Lovely to read this:
> Historic Brixton nightclub saved – for now - Cornerstone Barristers


The club people have done well - if it rests there.
Love the description of the music on offer: “... wholly or predominantly characterised by the emission of a succession of repetitive beats”


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## editor (May 19, 2016)

CH1 said:


> The club people have done well - if it rests there.
> Love the description of the music on offer: “... wholly or predominantly characterised by the emission of a succession of repetitive beats”


That's the old Criminal Justice Act descriptor!


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## Tolpuddle (May 21, 2016)

Nice to see Lambeth having their collective nose rubbed in it again by a court, interesting that they didn't actually try & argue it in front of a judge. Obviously they had been strongly advised that they would not win it. Also nice to see them have to pay costs.


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## IC3D (May 21, 2016)

Great result for 414


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## DJWrongspeed (Aug 26, 2016)

I've had another letter through saying Market Row have another decision date for their planning application. Since last year has anything change in policy and legal ways to help them fight on?

Sadiq's night Tsar/Czar (which is it?) ? to the rescue

It looks like the planning department are using the same *submission *as last year.


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## teuchter (Aug 26, 2016)

Have a look here?

Professional planning advice


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## 19sixtysix (Aug 26, 2016)

Friend received this letter today about a planning application for 414 and urged me to object again. I'm passing it on so we can object again.


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## editor (Sep 21, 2016)

Here's a comprehensive guide on how to lodge an objection with Lambeth 
Saving Brixtons Club 414: important guidelines to making objections


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## teuchter (Sep 22, 2016)

The guidance on the Brixton Buzz article is excellent. This is exactly what is needed in order to fight stuff via the planning process.

It's what the arches campaign needed. Not poetry and glitter bombs.

Important now is that people actually do lodge objections using that advice.


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## laughalot (Sep 22, 2016)

I am posting this as we are not sure of the expiry date for objections/representations for the 'Change of Use' for Club 414.
Letters were sent out first by Lambeth, dated the 22nd August 2016 giving 21 days for comments etc., with the last date being 12th September.

The site notice, was put in place on the post of the zebra crossing on Friday 2nd September with a date of the 23rd September as the closing date. Although it was removed some 4 days later by whom nobody knows. However a request for another notice was granted, that is now in the window of 414.

The advertisement in the 'Lambeth Weekender' states three weeks written representation (21 days) from the publication date of the 9th September which will mean that the closing date should now be the 30th September? The Planning Database gives the expiry date as the 23rd September, the same as the site notice.

We find this whole situation confusing.
May we suggest that should anybody wishing to make a comment on the planning application, should do so within the next 24 hours. 
Hopefully Lambeth will confirm shortly the correct date we should abide by.


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## laughalot (Sep 22, 2016)

pleased to say the case officer has sent an email and confirmed that the expiry date will be the 30th September 2016.


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## editor (Dec 13, 2016)

Good to see the Fabric campaigners getting behind the 414
Fabric Club campaigners lend their support to Brixton’s Club 414


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## editor (Dec 14, 2016)

Well, lookee here


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## DJWrongspeed (Dec 14, 2016)

I was just about to post "Application Withdrawn", you beat me to it.

Great but weird ?  what's the story.


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## editor (Dec 14, 2016)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I was just about to post "Application Withdrawn", you beat me to it.
> 
> Great but weird ?  what's the story.


I imagine they'll just be regrouping before their next assault, all of which gives valuable time for the club to garner more support. 

Temporary reprieve for Brixton’s Club 414 as developers withdraw luxury flat planning application


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## sealion (Dec 14, 2016)

editor said:


> I imagine they'll just be regrouping before their next assault, all of which gives valuable time for the club to garner more support.


I was talking to Louise recently, She was overwhelmed by the support she has received and mentioned that some of the legal advice and help they are getting is from former patrons who are now lawyers.


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## Rushy (Aug 23, 2017)

I've heard that Be At One (possibly the worst named chain in London) are negotiating to purchase the 414 site. 

Planning application is in for change of use to a bar. From the application it would appear that the purchase is subject to planning permission. 

Lots of quotable sound bites in the cover letter for folk to get their teeth into.


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## DietCokeGirl (Aug 23, 2017)

Oh dear god NO.


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## sealion (Aug 23, 2017)

That's a real shame.


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## shakespearegirl (Aug 23, 2017)

That would be a massive shame. I haven't been to the 414 in years and years, but I've friends who make it the centre of their annual visit from Holland, they rave about how friendly and accepting everyone there is. would be a real pity if it closed to make way for the expanding cocktail empire.


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## editor (Aug 23, 2017)

They want to turn it into a fucking cunting shitting cocktail bar.
17/03737/FUL     |              Use of the premises as a cocktail bar (Use Class A4).                  |                                                                      414 - 416 Coldharbour Lane London SW9 8LF


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## editor (Aug 23, 2017)

shakespearegirl said:


> That would be a massive shame. I haven't been to the 414 in years and years, but I've friends who make it the centre of their annual visit from Holland, they rave about how friendly and accepting everyone there is. would be a real pity if it closed to make way for the expanding cocktail empire.


It's a wonderful old school, inclusive, super friendly venue. Staff who work in local bars get in free. It would be utterly heartbreaking to see an independent venue that has stuck with Brixton through the tough times being turned into yet another cocktail bar for the well off.


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## Nanker Phelge (Aug 23, 2017)

This will be carving a big piece of brixton's heart out....


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## DietCokeGirl (Aug 23, 2017)

A sodding Be At One. Insulting.


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## editor (Aug 23, 2017)

Nanker Phelge said:


> This will be carving a big piece of brixton's heart out....


It'll be the final straw for me.


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## Nanker Phelge (Aug 23, 2017)

editor said:


> It'll be the final straw for me.



..and then what....leave....go somewhere else? Where? 

I'm actually enjoying Leicester more than London right now....but I couldn't live there


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## editor (Aug 23, 2017)

It's not my best writing because I'm too angry, but please share: 
Be At One chain want to turn Brixton’s legendary Club 414 into a cocktail bar


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## colacubes (Aug 23, 2017)

editor said:


> It's not my best writing because I'm too angry, but please share:
> Be At One chain want to turn Brixton’s legendary Club 414 into a cocktail bar



Have some more ire here. Just heard the council have approved change of use of one of the shops in Electric Ave to become a restaurant despite many residents and a councillor objecting:

17/03110/FUL     |              Change of use from Retail (Use Class A1) to Restaurant (Use Class A3) with installation of timber windows and door to front elevation.                  |                                                                      34-36 Electric Avenue London SW9 8JR

Bye bye Brixton. Hello Clapham High St...


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## Gleena (Aug 24, 2017)

Has anyone contacted the Music Venue Trust for help? They have been instrumental in campaigning for independent venues to keep their premises. They have emergency response information on the website. I don't know the owners, but if someone does maybe they can get in touch?

Music Venue Trust

Or Twitter: @musicvenuetrust


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## blossie33 (Aug 24, 2017)

That's really awful news, I've been to the 414 many times in the past and I know how popular it still is with the techno and trance crowd, it's a great little venue with a friendly atmosphere, unique really.
It makes me very angry that it can be pushed aside for some cocktail bar  - there are already enough of them in London, for people that want that sort of thing.
Presumably it's all about £££££ as usual.


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## Dan U (Aug 24, 2017)

What a load of fucking wank

Buzz article is getting a lot of shares on Facebook, for all the good it will probably do. 

Sad!


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## DietCokeGirl (Aug 24, 2017)

I think it's important to also share details on how to object otherwise peple will assume it's a done deal.


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## Dan U (Aug 24, 2017)

DietCokeGirl said:


> I think it's important to also share details on how to object otherwise peple will assume it's a done deal.



Yeah agreed. Was being a bit fatalistic I admit. Have shared


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## ferrelhadley (Aug 24, 2017)

This town is becoming like a ghost town. All the clubs being shut down.


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## editor (Aug 24, 2017)

Please take some time out to lodge an objection and save us from another fucking cocktail bar. 

Here's a template for your objection: 
http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2017/08/...an-effective-objection-with-lambeth-planning/


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## editor (Aug 24, 2017)

Dan U said:


> What a load of fucking wank
> 
> Buzz article is getting a lot of shares on Facebook, for all the good it will probably do.
> 
> Sad!


It's very far from being a done deal - but please lodge an objection!
Brixton's Club 414 threatened with closure


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## DietCokeGirl (Aug 24, 2017)

editor said:


> Please take some time out to lodge an objection and save us from another fucking cocktail bar.
> 
> Here's a template for your objection:
> Save Brixton’s Club 414 from being turned into a cocktail bar – here’s how to lodge an effective objection with Lambeth Planning


Nice, thank you.


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## Gramsci (Aug 27, 2017)

Reading up on the cocktail bar company that wants to replace long-standing 414.


> There’s a good chance that, as a reader of Pub & Bar, you’re already familiar with Be At One. The blue and gold logo is fairly renowned throughout the industry and as the business opens up in far-reaching cities of the UK (there are now over 30 bars in operation), the brand identity and association is only going to grow stronger. Is this a positive for the directors? Locke wants each venue to be the favourite bar of people in that area, not necessarily because they’ve been to a Be At One in another city, but because it’s their bar in their own town. A modern-day local. However, Be At One is a brand, and it’s the existing brand credentials that have allowed the business to succeed to the extent that it already has. Can a well recognised bar brand really be perceived as individual by the guest? Can it really be a ‘proper local’ if people in the next city have one as well?



Be At One brand make big deal about how they aren't some anonymous brand but want to be seen as a "local". Yet they want to kick out long-standing "local" to get into Brixton. Reading up on them and the use PR advice when they open a new bar. This attempt to move to Brixton isn't in line with the brand identity that they are portraying in interviews. Perhaps Locke and his chums don't give a shit. Interviews in the trade are PR bollox.


http://pubandbar.com/news/2017-03-20-hail-to-the-bartender


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## Gramsci (Aug 28, 2017)

Objection lodged. 

 A lot more objections have gone in. Some using the template letter. Interesting to read the objections. Shows the strength of feeling.

This is clear cut case of gentrification. Pushing out long-standing local business for high end cocktail bar. It's sickening to see what's happening to Brixton.


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## editor (Sep 22, 2017)

I'm impressed with the 414's letter to Lambeth planning:


Updated: https://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onl...df/17_03737_FUL-CLUB_414_COMMENTS-1973612.pdf

A total of 189 objections were registered on the planning site.


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## Rushy (Sep 23, 2017)




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## CH1 (Sep 23, 2017)

Rushy said:


> View attachment 116194


As usual you'll have to wait until the Council re-opens on Monday morning (unless someone has the pdf to upload to help us out.


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## editor (Sep 26, 2017)

414's response now appears to be here: https://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onl...df/17_03737_FUL-CLUB_414_COMMENTS-1973612.pdf

There's 225 objections now (and some of the 'supporting' comments are actual objections too!


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## bimble (Sep 26, 2017)

its unavailable for viewing (again / for me) . 
would like to send an objection too.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Sep 26, 2017)

bimble said:


> its unavailable for viewing (again / for me) .
> would like to send an objection too.


Me too.


----------



## laughalot (Sep 26, 2017)

Please go to the 'Lambeth Planning Database Site' type in the clubs address. The letter is in 'Documents'.
Objections can be made from here too should you wish.
We thank you for your interest with the ongoing situation we are experiencing.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 26, 2017)

the letter from the owners of the 414 club is really thorough and sets out clear reasons for why the application should be rejected. However, so many of the objections on the site won't be considered by Lambeth Planning as they don't contain any planning based objections. Objections have to be based on planning and policy grounds.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 26, 2017)

Rushy said:


> View attachment 116194


Still unavailable.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Sep 26, 2017)

If you go to the planning database and put in the postcode (SW9 8LF), the letter from 414 is under the documents tab


----------



## Rushy (Sep 26, 2017)

shakespearegirl said:


> If you go to the planning database and put in the postcode (SW9 8LF), the letter from 414 is under the documents tab


Ah. Dodgy link. Ta.


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2017)

shakespearegirl said:


> If you go to the planning database and put in the postcode (SW9 8LF), the letter from 414 is under the documents tab


The link was valid when I posted it and I checked it and it hadn't changed. Hmmm.  Lambeth 

This is the link again. Does it work for others?   https://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onl...df/17_03737_FUL-CLUB_414_COMMENTS-1973612.pdf


----------



## colacubes (Sep 27, 2017)

editor said:


> The link was valid when I posted it and I checked it and it hadn't changed. Hmmm.  Lambeth
> 
> This is the link again. Does it work for others?   https://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onl...df/17_03737_FUL-CLUB_414_COMMENTS-1973612.pdf



Nope.


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2017)

colacubes said:


> Nope.


In which case: 

1. Go 17/03737/FUL     |              Use of the premises as a cocktail bar (Use Class A4).                  |                                                                      414 - 416 Coldharbour Lane London SW9 8LF
2. Click on documents
3. Click on Club 414 Comments

And if that somehow doesn't work
1. Go to Simple Search
2. Search for '414 Coldharbour'
3. As above!


----------



## colacubes (Sep 27, 2017)

editor said:


> In which case:
> 
> 1. Go 17/03737/FUL	 |			  Use of the premises as a cocktail bar (Use Class A4).				  |																	  414 - 416 Coldharbour Lane London SW9 8LF
> 2. Click on documents
> ...



That works


----------



## CH1 (Sep 27, 2017)

editor said:


> The link was valid when I posted it and I checked it and it hadn't changed. Hmmm.  Lambeth
> 
> This is the link again. Does it work for others?   https://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onl...df/17_03737_FUL-CLUB_414_COMMENTS-1973612.pdf


It works for me - but just in case others can't get the letter is here (as a pdf file)


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Sep 27, 2017)

Petition here
Looks like amy Lame is on ithttps://www.change.org/p/lambeth-co...or-planning-application-17-03737-ful-save414/
Far better to object on the Lambeth site though. Not sure what Change.org has ever achieved? I'm happy to be corrected though on that.


----------



## snowy_again (Sep 27, 2017)

works now for me too


----------



## Rushy (Sep 28, 2017)

Link still doesn't work for me but can access using the search process. 

I thought I was going to have to sift through all the other objections to find this one but, unusually for a letter of objection, it has been included in the application documents section instead of under comments. I don't recall having seen that before for an objection (other than objections received during prior consultation). It certainly gives it more prominence.

I think it makes some strong policy points, although many are (unavoidably) subjective. I think the "sham" argument would have been best left out.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2017)

Last chance to make your objections to stop Club 414 being turned into crappy posh cocktail bar that Brixton doesn't need or want. Please make your objection.

Save Brixton’s Club 414 from being turned into a cocktail bar – here’s how to lodge an effective objection with Lambeth Planning


----------



## bimble (Oct 4, 2017)

done, thanks for reminder.


----------



## editor (Dec 6, 2017)

Fuck YES! Brilliant news. 


Brixton’s Club 414 lives on as Be At One cocktail bar planning application refused


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 6, 2017)

Excellent news.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 6, 2017)

Doubly sweet that its a win against Be At One. Just checked and they've got 16 bars now and counting


----------



## shakespearegirl (Dec 6, 2017)

Fantastic news


----------



## sealion (Dec 6, 2017)

Great news. Well done lambeth planning as well!


----------



## Dan U (Dec 6, 2017)

Great news this. So pleased for them all at 414 and their loyal promoters

Really thought this was a goner, v pleased to be wrong


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Dec 6, 2017)

Amazing. It feels like the Councillors are listening. Cocktail bar adds nothing to the area, clubs are rare tingz to be valued.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 6, 2017)

Quite bold of them to reject on those grounds, I think. It will set an interesting precedent.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 6, 2017)

thought that too
they are saying it's the only place that's just a club and nothing else in Brixton, is that true?


----------



## blossie33 (Dec 7, 2017)

Brilliant news!!!!
saw it on FB last night


----------



## IC3D (Dec 7, 2017)

Awesome


----------



## teuchter (Dec 7, 2017)

ddraig said:


> thought that too
> they are saying it's the only place that's just a club and nothing else in Brixton, is that true?


Not really.
eg. Phonox


----------



## editor (Dec 7, 2017)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Amazing. It feels like the Councillors are listening. Cocktail bar adds nothing to the area, clubs are rare tingz to be valued.


It's an amazing result and good for the 414 for refusing to give up their fight despite some people insisting that they had no chance.


----------



## aussw9 (Dec 7, 2017)

ska invita said:


> Doubly sweet that its a win against Be At One. Just checked and they've got 16 bars now and counting



and all utterly shit


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Dec 7, 2017)

ddraig said:


> thought that too
> they are saying it's the only place that's just a club and nothing else in Brixton, is that true?



I think they're saying small clubs matter and are what makes Brixton special, Phonox included.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 8, 2017)

Hope so and hope they stick to that!


----------



## teuchter (Dec 8, 2017)

Here's the wording of what they say


> It should be noted that although there are other nightclubs in Brixton, however, they are not as established, are of a different size, do not open as late or also have a non-music related function such as a cocktail bar, making Club 414 unique among Brixton music venues.


----------



## Dan U (May 3, 2019)

Looks like the game is up, not sure why but...


----------



## teuchter (May 3, 2019)




----------



## colacubes (May 3, 2019)

Oh no


----------



## blossie33 (May 3, 2019)

Oh no that's so sad, so very sorry


----------



## editor (May 3, 2019)

Really, really sad news. 

Brixton’s legendary Club 414 to close at the end of May 2019


----------



## Dan U (May 3, 2019)

Already posted in the old thread but without the buzz link 

Brixton's Club 414 threatened with closure


----------



## editor (May 3, 2019)

Dan U said:


> Already posted in the old thread but without the buzz link
> 
> Brixton's Club 414 threatened with closure


Thought it was worth a tribute thread of its own. Brixton will be all the poorer for the loss of this club.


----------



## Dan U (May 3, 2019)

editor said:


> Thought it was worth a tribute thread of its own. Brixton will be all the poorer for the loss of this club.



Might want to lock the old one and link to this? I agree it's a sad day indeed, be good to see it in one thread not spread across several.


----------



## editor (May 3, 2019)

Thread continues Club 414 to close at the end of May 2019


----------



## blossie33 (May 3, 2019)




----------



## friedaweed (May 3, 2019)

editor said:


> Thought it was worth a tribute thread of its own. Brixton will be all the poorer for the loss of this club.


Nah just merge the threads it'll look tidier for the boards


----------



## Twattor (May 4, 2019)

Why? There is talk in the release about previous battles, but I didn't see a clear "this is why..."

It seems like they've just decided that this is the time. Have they taken the gentrification pound? It is unclear.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 4, 2019)

Burn it all and start again


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (May 4, 2019)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Burn it all and start again


society  not the 414 just to make it clear


----------



## kittyP (May 4, 2019)




----------



## CH1 (May 4, 2019)

Surely the reason is clear - quoting from Hondo Enterprises - property investment

*Hondo Enterprises is a property investment, development and asset management company specialising in opportunistic and value-add transactions in Central London.*

Unless I have got the wrong end of the stick they've shoe-horned Photofusion out of the market and into International House

they've apparently bought the former Tesco/Kwiksave building from Mike Ashey

Looks like Club 414 is the latest "value-add transaction" involving Brixton Market.

Isn't it nice to have such a laissez faire council? Lambeth Labour are more laissez faire than Wandsworth Tories if you ask me.


----------



## editor (May 4, 2019)

I'll have the full story soon. I popped in last night. I'm going to really miss the place.


----------



## BristolEcho (May 4, 2019)

I only got to go to one night there, but found it a very nice place to party and I'm sad to see that they lost their battle.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2019)

In photos: The last days of Brixton’s Club 414 – Saturday 4th May 2019


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (May 7, 2019)

Really gutted about this. Cant say im too surprised, but id like to hear the story of why time is being called now.

Had a brief stint working at the POW a couple of years ago, and after my shift they would always let me in for free, so i ended up there most Friday, Saturday and even Sunday nights. 

Where else in London, never mind just in Brixton, can you turn up, pay a tenner and dance to harder, more underground dance music until silly o clock?

Huge loss!


----------



## editor (May 12, 2019)

Only two weeks until the end 

















In photos: The last days of Brixton’s Club 414, Hard House night, Friday 10th May 2019


----------



## editor (May 12, 2019)

Here's the last dates:

*Sunday 12 May, 2019 – 10:00 PM until 3:00 AM
Grass Roots Live Music Sundays*
Funk, Jazz, Reggae, Soul, Other

*Thursday 16 May, 2019 – 11:00 PM until 4:00 AM*
*Brixton’s Retro Groove*
Disco, Pop (80’s)
£3b412 £5 after

*Friday 17 May, 2019 – 11:00 PM until 7:00 AM*
*Psyrhythmix: The Last Blast*
Psychedelic Trance
£5b412 £10 after

*Saturday 18 May, 2019 – 2:00 PM until 11:00 PM*
*Korruption Presents: We Love You 414*
Hard Dance, Hard Trance
FREE! (Donations welcome)

*Saturday 18 May, 2019 – 11:00 PM until 7:00 AM*
*Buzz (Bumblebee Conservation Trust benefit)*
Acid Techno, Breaks, House, Techno
£5 Students (entry b4 2am) £8 Advance (entry b4 2am) £10 on the door.

*Sunday 17 May, 2019 – 10:00 PM until 3:00 AM*
*Grass Roots Live Music Sundays*
Funk, Jazz, Reggae, Soul, Other

*Friday 24 May, 2019 – 11:00 PM until 7:00 AM*
*Brixton Acid City – Celebrating The End Of An Era*
Acid Techno, Techno
£5b412 £10 after.

*Saturday 25 May, 2019 – 11:00 PM until 7:00 AM*
*TRANCElucid*
Psychedelic Trance
£5b412 £10 after.

*Sunday 24 May, 2019 – 10:00 PM until 3:00 AM*
*Grass Roots Live Music Sundays*
Funk, Jazz, Reggae, Soul, Other

THE END


----------



## RushcroftRoader (May 15, 2019)

Hondo has bought the buildings on Popes Road from Mike Ashley, but I am not sure there is any connection to 414. 

I read the article on the Brixton Blog but don't think it gives a reason why 414 is closing now. Can anyone enlighten? 





CH1 said:


> Surely the reason is clear - quoting from Hondo Enterprises - property investment
> 
> *Hondo Enterprises is a property investment, development and asset management company specialising in opportunistic and value-add transactions in Central London.*
> 
> ...


----------



## CH1 (May 15, 2019)

RushcroftRoader said:


> Hondo has bought the buildings on Popes Road from Mike Ashley, but I am not sure there is any connection to 414.
> 
> I read the article on the Brixton Blog but don't think it gives a reason why 414 is closing now. Can anyone enlighten?


I thought the previous episode of the club being under threat was down to LAP,  so I was guessing that the current closure is down to Hondo (billed as the US based hedge fund new owners of Brixton Market).
However I freely admit I haven't any documentary evidence, land registry searches etc.

editor did suggest he was going to give the full story. So far this has not extended to who owned what. 

The Brixton Blog article here suggests that Brixton Market ownership issues are not transparent at present - and Hondo even got them to amend it after publication  Registered owner of Brixton Village is a US-based hedge fund


----------



## ChrisC (May 15, 2019)

I have fond memories of that place during the late 90's and early 00's. I used to attend a night called Sleepless. Sad news indeed.


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (May 16, 2019)

Do we know the reason why yet it is closing relatively suddenly? 

We knew the last threat was due to Be At One (i think) trying to get their hands on the place, whats the craic this time around?


----------



## DJWrongspeed (May 17, 2019)

i hope to go to the last ever Brixton acid city thing if i can get there in time.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2019)

Just two weekends to go. I guess we'll end up with some shitty winebar in its place or some dire wankfest club for the rich Hondo set.


----------



## blossie33 (May 22, 2019)




----------



## jimbarkanoodle (May 23, 2019)

is it not the last weekend this weekend? Was planning to go to the Acid City and Sunday blues session as a send off


----------



## editor (May 23, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> is it not the last weekend this weekend? Was planning to go to the Acid City and Sunday blues session as a send off


Yes, you're right. This Saturday is the last big club night and then there's one music night on Sunday and then it's gone forever. So fucking sad.


----------



## editor (May 27, 2019)

The last ever Saturday night 


























In photos: The last ever Saturday night party at the Club 414, Brixton, 25th May 2019


----------



## DJWrongspeed (May 27, 2019)

Went to the last Sunday Jazz, was great if a little blurred in my memory!


----------



## spitfire (May 27, 2019)

editor said:


> The last ever Saturday night
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It was only an occasional one for me when I was in Brixton but had some great nights in there. It's a shame it's going, looks like it's getting a good send off.


----------



## abstract1 (May 27, 2019)

It was via the Club 414 site that I came across U75, however many millions of years ago.

Had many a good night down Coldharbour Lane - thanks for the good times 414, they were special x


----------



## editor (May 29, 2019)

So sad to see the end of the 414. They used to let workers from other clubs come in free late at night. How many other Brixton clubs would do that?

We've lost a real part of what made Brixton different.  And look how mixed the crowd is - all ages, all backgrounds. 

















In photos: Club 414 closing party – the final dance at the legendary Brixton club, Sunday 26th May 2019


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (May 29, 2019)

Having been one of those workers that used to be let in free whenever i wanted after work, and having been there on Sunday (and Friday) night, im also very sad to see it go. 

It almost feels like it's a bad joke, and in a few weeks time i can wander on back in there for a knees up. It will only really hit home when i walk past it and its preumably boarded up.

Rumours were flying around at the weekend that they intend to open up a new venture, possibly in Camden....


----------



## editor (May 29, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Having been one of those workers that used to be let in free whenever i wanted after work, and having been there on Sunday (and Friday) night, im also very sad to see it go.
> 
> It almost feels like it's a bad joke, and in a few weeks time i can wander on back in there for a knees up. It will only really hit home when i walk past it and its preumably boarded up.


They're being kicked out of their home of 30+ years (above the club) on Friday. It fucking sucks. 

I can't even imagine what hateful piece of yuppie shit is going to replace the 414. I wonder if the billionaire DJ Village boy is going to get his hands on it.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2019)

Heartbreaking 






The sad sight of Brixton’s Club 414 being stripped out and cleared away

https://www.facebook.com/#


----------



## StoneRoad (May 31, 2019)

That is a remarkably shit situation ...


----------



## abstract1 (Jun 3, 2019)

editor said:


> Heartbreaking
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sad times - I loved and hated those stairs 

They posed a massive challenge to anyone who was even vaguely refreshed - I lost hours to the fish tank, hours to people who’d lost hours to the fish tank - spilling out of there on a Monday morning, as everyone else was heading into work - we were the spooks and ghouls who didn’t know when to go home - it was a very messy time in my life, but always a good buzz - always!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 4, 2019)

I fell down those stairs one night after taking what was supposed to be an E but clearly wasn't. My legs were bandy as fuck and I went from top to bottom. Covered in bruises for weeks afterwards.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jun 4, 2019)

I never fell down those stairs but concentration was tested. RIP 414, happy memories.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 4, 2019)

I have scars on my head from those stairs. 
Sad to see 414 go.


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Jun 4, 2019)

Came to mightily close to toppling down those stairs on a number of occasions. 

In fact, i am a little surprised they lasted until the end, given the amount of injuries that must have happened as a result of those stairs.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Jun 4, 2019)

I fell up and down those stairs! I once vaguely remember lying on the stairs thinking I could see the sky and stars through the roof


----------



## abstract1 (Jun 4, 2019)

shakespearegirl said:


> I fell up and down those stairs! I once vaguely remember lying on the stairs thinking I could see the sky and stars through the roof



We’ve all been there


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Jun 7, 2019)




----------



## TopCat (Jun 7, 2019)

Squatted! Yes!


----------



## SheilaNaGig (Jun 7, 2019)

More power to ‘em.


----------



## klang (Jun 7, 2019)

is the rig etc still in there?


----------



## TopCat (Jun 7, 2019)

I will bang on the door later and see if they are planning any nights.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 7, 2019)

littleseb said:


> is the rig etc still in there?


I think everything gone.


----------



## pesh (Jun 7, 2019)

there will always be speakers


----------



## TopCat (Jun 7, 2019)

I wonder if they got in via Albert garden?


----------



## editor (Jun 8, 2019)

TopCat said:


> Squatted! Yes!


Sadly not. Damn. It would have been so sooo good.


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2019)

Chatted to an activist tonight. Watch this space!


----------



## editor (Jun 26, 2019)

I've heard awful things about the landlords of the 414. The court notice says that it's Coldharbour APL Ltd, a new company 'buying and selling of own real estate.'
Anyone fancy doing some digging?

This guy seems to be the head honcho






https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-mintz/
Home - LAP

Oh wait, he's also recently been appointed to secretary of Brixton Village

BRIXTON VILLAGE LIMITED - Filing history (free information from Companies House)

COLDHARBOUR APL LIMITED - Company Information UK


----------



## editor (Jun 26, 2019)

Article here: 








> A notice stuck on top of the 414 logo on the shutters informs the squatters (‘persons unknown’) that a claim by the owners Coldharbour APL Ltd will be heard in the County Court on the Strand on Weds 3rd July at 2pm.
> 
> Coldharbour APL Ltd are a new company ‘buying and selling of own real estate,’ headed up by Jonathan Mintz, who is also Finance Director at London & Associated Properties plc. Interestingly, Mr Minz was recently appointed as a secretary of Brixton Village.


Brixton’s Club 414 in Coldharbour Lane is squatted


----------



## Gaia (Jul 9, 2019)

Any updates on the court case…? Is it still being squatted…? I could search, but CBFA.


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2019)

Gaia said:


> Any updates on the court case…? Is it still being squatted…? I could search, but CBFA.


Went passed today and there was a notice saying that the owners had won but no date as to when the squatters had to leave.


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2019)

Here's what was on the window:


----------



## CH1 (Jul 9, 2019)

I remember around 1983 the building was squatted by Spartacus R and others. It seemed to be a black cultural centre of some kind.
Spartacus was a fiery man, and very short. He wore platform heels to compensate.
As well as his musical work with Osibissa he did musical stand-up and wrote books - one of which had the odd name "The Maat Mystery".
Spartacus R


----------



## smileyuk (Aug 10, 2019)

editor said:


> I've heard awful things about the landlords of the 414. The court notice says that it's Coldharbour APL Ltd, a new company 'buying and selling of own real estate.'
> Anyone fancy doing some digging?
> 
> This guy seems to be the head honcho
> ...



He is no longer Director of COLDHARBOUR, but he is director of 28 (!!!) other (Strange names) companies.

Mr Jonathan MINTZ appointments - Company Information UK


----------



## editor (Aug 10, 2019)

smileyuk said:


> He is no longer Director of COLDHARBOUR, but he is director of 28 (!!!) other (Strange names) companies.
> 
> Mr Jonathan MINTZ appointments - Company Information UK


He's in it up to his neck.


----------



## editor (Aug 16, 2019)

The 414 is back! Club 414 returns with a Trancelucid road show at Vauxhall’s Union Club, Sat 14th Sept 2019


----------



## madolesance (Aug 23, 2019)

Brixton Market owners buy home of 414 Club


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2019)

madolesance said:


> Brixton Market owners buy home of 414 Club


Just as I fucking suspected.


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2019)

Just listen to this bullshit: 



> Taylor McWilliams, founder of Hondo Enterprises, who is performing in Ibiza this summerwith his four-person DJ collective, Housekeeping, said: “We are completely committed to Brixton and want to preserve its unique history and culture.
> 
> “Dance music is a huge part of my own life and Club 414 is a world renowned night time venue.
> 
> “When the opportunity presented itself we therefore felt we had to step in and save Club 414, an iconic entertainment venue in the heart of Brixton.


The cunt hasn't 'saved' Club 414. He's taken it over for himself.


----------



## blossie33 (Aug 23, 2019)

editor said:


> Just listen to this bullshit:
> 
> The cunt hasn't 'saved' Club 414. He's taken it over for himself.




That is awful (to put it politely!)


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Aug 23, 2019)

As much as i liked the 414, im not sure it was a world renowned night time venue. 

As has been said, the prick fancied the nightclub for himself, and probably thinks we should be grateful that it is apparently going to stay a nightclub. Never mind kicking out the owners and actual tenants of the building and ripping up 30 years of heritage. I doubt we'll see any psy trance or acid techno nights running until 8am under this regime. Part of me would actually prefer it if it were turned into another fucking burger restaurant.


----------



## editor (Aug 23, 2019)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> As much as i liked the 414, im not sure it was a world renowned night time venue.
> 
> As has been said, the prick fancied the nightclub for himself, and probably thinks we should be grateful that it is apparently going to stay a nightclub. Never mind kicking out the owners and actual tenants of the building and ripping up 30 years of heritage. I doubt we'll see any psy trance or acid techno nights running until 8am under this regime. Part of me would actually prefer it if it were turned into another fucking burger restaurant.


You can guarantee that he'll be booking himself and his rich pals' 'DJ collective' into the 'saved' venue and the door policy/vibe/music will be very different to the actual 414's.


----------



## T & P (Aug 23, 2019)

They should rename it the 404.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2019)

So it seems the super rich socialite who's currently claiming to have 'saved' the 414 - despite suspicions that it was his company that kicked out the owners in the first place - has now bagged the same 24 hour licence for himself and his DJ pals. 

Interestingly, he's done it under the name of Club 414-416 - which is clearly looking to cash in on the reputation of the previous - now ejected - owners, who are still trading under the name of Club 414 elsewhere. 

19/00594/PRMDPS     |              Premises Licence (Vary DPS)                  |                            Current Licence         |                                                                    414-416 Coldharbour Lane London SW9 8LF


----------



## stolinski (Nov 24, 2019)

oh crap i didn't know about any of this


----------



## editor (Feb 17, 2020)

I've merged the two 414 threads together. There's no chance of them returning to the original venue, although they are still actively looking for new premises in the area. if you know of any likely candidates, please message them (or me, and I'll forward them the info). 

I'm really missing the place. There's absolutely nowhere for bar staff/late workers to go in Brixton any more.


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 18, 2020)

Its bad enough they kicked them out obviously, but why the fuck did they feel the need to do so, then keep it boarded up for however many months its now been? Seems pointless.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2020)

It's still empty. It's a fucking kick in the face to the previous owners who were made homeless just so rich boy could get his paws on the building. 

Taylor McWilliams - the man who "saved" the 414 - has become such a toxic brand in Brixton right now, I can't see any way he's going to up that posh private club everyone was expecting any time soon (even if he does now have that desirable 24 hour licence). 

Interestingly, I saw this 'fake cop' facilities management van outside today


----------



## 19sixtysix (Jun 12, 2020)

editor said:


> It's still empty. It's a fucking kick in the face to the previous owners who were made homeless just so rich boy could get his paws on the building.
> 
> Taylor McWilliams - the man who "saved" the 414 - has become such a toxic brand in Brixton right now, I can't see any way he's going to up that posh private club everyone was expecting any time soon (even if he does now have that desirable 24 hour licence).
> 
> ...



Interesting parking. On pavement in zig zag zone of crossing. Three points for parking on zig zags not sure about on pavement.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2020)

19sixtysix said:


> Interesting parking. On pavement in zig zag zone of crossing. Three points for parking on zig zags not sure about on pavement.


It's an Arrogant Fuck You Driver Full House!


----------



## editor (Feb 15, 2021)

Just to update this thread:



> Brixton Jamm and Percolate have announced ambitious plans for the former Club 414 building in Coldharbour Lane, Brixton.
> 
> Now to be renamed _The Ton of Brix_, the statement gives details of a new live music/DJ/dance venue backed by community initiatives, support for local night workers and small breweries.











						Exclusive: Brixton Jamm and Percolate reveal their plans for a new club at 414 Coldharbour Lane, Brixton
					

Brixton Jamm and Percolate have announced ambitious plans for the former Club 414 building in Coldharbour Lane, Brixton. Now to be renamed The Ton of Brix, the statement gives details of a new live…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com
				




Still no news on whether Tony & Louise have found a new venue.


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## editor (Feb 15, 2021)

Old flyers

























						Brixton club history: Flyers for Club 414 from a quarter of a century ago
					

For over 30 years,  Club 414 on Coldharbour Lane played a huge part in Brixton’s night life, hosting inclusive, all-night weekend parties and live music shows in the week. Here’s a sele…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


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## editor (Feb 12, 2022)

Licensing notice outside. The old owners are still pissed off that it's being called Club 414 (-416)


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## CH1 (Feb 14, 2022)

editor said:


> Licensing notice outside. The old owners are still pissed off that it's being called Club 414 (-416)
> 
> View attachment 309744


Does it have fire escape plans? The old 414 (from what I recall in 1997) had a spiral staircase up from the dance floor to the chill-out zone.
If such is still the case, having another bar on the floor above that seems to lead to a tortuous escape route. Will they be providing proper evacuation equipment?


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## jimbarkanoodle (Feb 14, 2022)

There was also a normal flight of stairs that ran up the side of the building. Often towards the end of the 414 days the spiral staircase was roped off later in the night. I'm sure I'm not the only one who took a bit of a slip on them!


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## editor (Mar 3, 2022)

Maybe they should have just kept it open as the 414...









						Met Police, Public Protection Team and Lambeth Licensing Authority all object to revised licence application for Brixton’s former 414 Club
					

An application to vary the premises licence for the former legendary 414 Club on Coldharbour Lane will be heard by the Lambeth Council Licensing Sub-Committee on 9th March.



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


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## jimbarkanoodle (Mar 3, 2022)

I'm not surprised there is problems obtaining that license, its a generous one these days, even in the middle of nowhere. I suspect 414 only kept it as they'd had it for ages. 

Theyll be lucky to get one until 6am on weekends, and that is providing the people in the expensive flats opposite dont get wind of it. Cue a busybody in the residents WhatsApp group getting plenty of them to oppose.


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## editor (Mar 12, 2022)

Road show coming up at Union in Vauxhall








						PsyPhoenix Rising – Brixton’s Club 414 on the road while they seek a new home, Fri 25th March 2022
					

Once one of Brixton’s longest serving and most loved venues, Club 414 has been without a home since they were kicked out into the street by the kind of people who have absolutely no associati…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


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## blossie33 (Dec 9, 2022)

Article from Mixmag's FB page today...



			https://mixmag.net/read/new-brixton-club-ton-of-brix-hit-with-backlash-after-owner-revealed-as-controversial-property-investor-taylor-mcwilliams-news/


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