# Lithograph or print?



## Space Girl (Sep 12, 2005)

I have a picture and I need to be able to find out if it's a lithograph or a print, can anyone tell me how to tell what is what?


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## Leica (Sep 12, 2005)

What kind of paper is it on? A normal print is on photo-sensitive paper. A lithograph is made from ink.

Edit: I assumed by "picture" you meant a photograph.


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## Space Girl (Sep 12, 2005)

I have not got the picture yet, I am picking it up tomorrow, it's not a photo but a piece of avant garde art work which I am hoping is a lithograph from 1919 rather than a later print (c1950's) but my problem is that I don't know how to tell the difference and I have to be able to tell the difference

this is the picture that I am really hoping is an original lithograph


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## zenie (Sep 12, 2005)

I would assume if it is a lithograph it will be signed and numbered no?

I think that's right but someone else on here lives (I mean works) in a gallery so they might be able to tell you more.


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## Leica (Sep 12, 2005)

Is this by Lissitzky?!


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## Space Girl (Sep 12, 2005)

yes, it's called "Tatlin at Work" on the Monument to the Third International, I have not seen it yet and I have my fingers crossed that it's an original lithograph rather than a later print, it was worth bidding on it despite me not seeing it. It's in a frame and quite large from the discription, if it is original then I will take it to Christies who are having a Russian sale at the end of Nov, here's hoping my £250 turns into a couple of grand


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## Firky (Sep 12, 2005)

Even if it is a print, it maybe a limited edition print. Therefore it should come with a certificate, and number. 

Is it a giclee do you know? if its a giclee then its deff' a print.

(the dude that works in a gallery)


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## Leica (Sep 13, 2005)

Are you sure it is from 1919? And that it is exactly like the picture, in colour? How big is it?

This is a well known photomontage - it is one of a series of illustrations that Lissitzky made for a book that came out in 1922. The picture you linked to is very likely to be the original maquette for the illustration. The illustration in the book was black and white.


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## Space Girl (Sep 13, 2005)

don't know if it's colour or black and white yet until I see it and I'm sure the auction listing stated that it was a lithograph of the 1919 original but they are such a flea pit of an auction house they could be wrong, until I get it I can't say what it is let alone if it's a litho or print.

I deal in antiques with my mum, mainly dealing in the arts and crafts movement but we have recently been dabbling in Russian revolutionary and avant garde items which fold over into so many other areas but we have never really dealt in prints/lithos so our knowledge is a bit limited and having to be able to identify the difference between a litho and a print is a problem at the mo for us   

what is giclee?


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## Soreenkid (Sep 13, 2005)

it is french for spay, it is a term given to very high quality modern art prints, and an alternative to lithograph, cos it looks very much like a lithograph the way it sprays the ink onto the paper.

its just a posh name for bubblejet 

http://painting.about.com/cs/printing/a/gilceeprints_2.htm


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## boskysquelch (Sep 13, 2005)

Soreenkid said:
			
		

> it is french for spay,



Dog's get _gicleed_?  .....  


plus


ha ha ha! to rest of_ works _in gallery bollocks!  

I keep rereading this thread but dunt see any rerference to what lithography actually entails and ergo how to identify the difference betwixt a print n lithograph^so there you go.


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## Soreenkid (Sep 13, 2005)

christ you're a bromidic cunt


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## boskysquelch (Sep 13, 2005)

Oh btw the difference it that the lithographic print will look "papery" in detail whereas the photographic print on close inspection will have a  surface that is obviously an emulsion...a distinct layer seprarate from  the backing paper...but the lithograph will have areas which are obviously not printed upon and equally obviously will lack a medium upon which a photosensitive reaction may have occured on ie no emulsion....the difference between a photoprint and a giclee on inspection is that the image lays on top of the emulsion as opposed to a photographic print where the image lies within the print/emulsion.....innit!?  


And a further by the by...these three are also different form a litho-print using litho photographic film and or litho paper/film...and there is also "5-star" lithogel!...but that's another story!  




* typed two hours back but got bored .... and went gardening instead


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## boskysquelch (Sep 13, 2005)

Soreenkid said:
			
		

> christ you're a bromidic cunt



and you are the one_eyed_troll in the land of the virtually_visually_impaired!!!!  ..got yer knob out of Billy Goat Gruff yet?


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## Soreenkid (Sep 13, 2005)

squelch said:
			
		

> Oh btw the difference it that the lithographic print will look "papery" in detail whereas the photographic print on close inspection will have a  surface that is obviously an emulsion...a distinct layer seprarate from  the backing paper...but the lithograph will have areas which are obviously not printed upon and equally obviously will lack a medium upon which a photosensitive reaction may have occured on ie no emulsion....the difference between a photoprint and a giclee on inspection is that the image lays on top of the emulsion as opposed to a photographic print where the image lies within the print/emulsion.....innit!?
> 
> 
> And a further by the by...these three are also different form a litho-print using litho photographic film and or litho paper/film...and there is also "5-star" lithogel!...but that's another story!
> ...




usually look on the back of lithos, if there's a fine imprint or pressure marks then usually its a litho and not a giclee. Also giclee prints are always (nearly always) in mint nick, as the process is prob' only a decade old!


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## boskysquelch (Sep 13, 2005)

Soreenkid said:
			
		

> usually look on the back of lithos, if there's a fine imprint or pressure marks then usually its a litho and not a giclee. Also giclee prints are always (nearly always) in mint nick, as the process is prob' only a decade old!




The imprint issue is OBVIOUS...see link...the other stuff you say is anally true too.  ...however a forger would prolly think about things a bit more than you...and then some...

seen this bit



> I am hoping is a lithograph from 1919 rather than a later print (c1950's) but my problem is that I don't know how to tell the difference and I have to be able to tell the difference



it was in the initial enquiry...and then you started on about giclee...which to be quite honest is a load of pseudo bollocks that people who are interested in photographic prints kno0w is bollocks...basically Giclee versus Inkjet/bubblewhatever is jus like Skoda versus Rover...z'all bollox! 

from a person who prints Giclee...but then you've got a cer_tiff_e_cutt haven't you?


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## Soreenkid (Sep 13, 2005)

Are you thick are just an aggorvational bitter cunt cos you live in a tin box after your missus left you, and you're closer to death than birth.

Ohh I bet reading this is making your heart race. 

I'm not even going to justify what I said to you, you're not worth it. Your the drops of urine on the end of my cock, and I'll give you as much respect as that.

Don't bother replying with your usual jealous bollox, or how you photographed for mothercare or something... face it dude, you're an old man on the heap and no one likes you cos you're a twat.

you attack people on u75 totally unprovoked. if its not me, its tp, if its not tp, its someone else.

reason you're alone is because your shit and other's are so much better than you. 

and i got the certificate to prove it!


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## Space Girl (Sep 13, 2005)

ah, you lot make me laugh   

the litho/print is coloured and not just black and white, I still have not seen it, my mum has got it now so it will be 2 weeks before i cna get my hands on it now   

it's about 18 x14 inches

I suppose I will just have to keep my fingers crossed and hope that it is an original litho, thanks you all for your help especially squelch for the great discription between lithos and prints, hopefully it will be obvious when I get hold of the damn thing


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## boskysquelch (Sep 14, 2005)

Soreenkid said:
			
		

> Are you thick are just an aggorvational bitter cunt cos you live in a tin box after your missus left you, and you're closer to death than birth.
> 
> Ohh I bet reading this is making your heart race.
> 
> ...




Once and for all...I left my wife and I rejected tp...I'm very sorry for you that it was the other way round LOL<<<well that's what SHE told me...gutted eh?.... the fact you can not respond to any of my posts without vitriol speaks voluuuuuuuumes dude..real world/virtual world:::I know who I am and who I see and speak to and that includes alot of Urbs..cock!  

Oh I forgot the game _here_ was to be liked. 

And what the fuck does any of that have todo with lithographic prints?  




 ....you have a lovely day there too maltloaf_boy with the pissed stained pants with an obsession for the DOG star!.....


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## zenie (Sep 14, 2005)

squelch said:
			
		

> Once and for all...I left my wife and I rejected tp...I'm very sorry for you that it was the other way round LOL<<<well that's what SHE told me...gutted eh?.... the fact you can not respond to any of my posts without vitriol speaks voluuuuuuuumes dude..real world/virtual world:::I know who I am and who I see and speak to and that includes alot of Urbs..cock!  Oh I forgot the game here was to be liked.
> 
> And what the fuck does any of that have todo with lithographic prints?
> 
> ...



Miaow   

Jeez laides can't you take this off this thread?


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## boskysquelch (Sep 14, 2005)

zenie said:
			
		

> Miaow
> 
> Jeez laides can't you take this off this thread?



Jeeez zenie you should do some more research before you make up your mind to play with.

Btw I'll be in Bretonside in a couple of hours fancy a bifta?  

>>>>>>>>>>>

back to topic

I hope you enjoy your picture whatever it is Space Girl.


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## Soreenkid (Sep 14, 2005)

squelch said:
			
		

> obsession for the DOG star!.....



lol @ dog star


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## moose (Sep 15, 2005)

What are you lot on about? A lithograph _is_ a print. And most printed items are by the lithographic process, whether the modern way, using metal or plastic plates on an offset press, or the original way - drawing directly onto polished limestone and running through a platen press.


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## Space Girl (Sep 16, 2005)

just when I thought I has it sussed moose comes along and ruins it    

I'm just taking the picture/print/litho or whatever it is to Christies and let them tell me what it is and if it's worth anything, which it better had


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## zenie (Sep 16, 2005)

moose said:
			
		

> What are you lot on about? A lithograph _is_ a print. And most printed items are by the lithographic process, whether the modern way, using metal or plastic plates on an offset press, or the original way - drawing directly onto polished limestone and running through a platen press.



I think the point was that it wasn't a digital or photgraphic print - i.e there'd be hundreds of them.


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## Leica (Sep 16, 2005)

moose said:
			
		

> A lithograph _is_ a print.


I thought this was common knowledge...

Space Girl wants to know how to tell if it's an old one or a later one I think.


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## Space Girl (Sep 17, 2005)

true, basically if it's a print then it will be a more recent copy, if a litho then it's more than likely to be older.


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## moose (Sep 19, 2005)

<bangs head on screen>


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