# Should I join UNISON?



## Corax (Mar 27, 2011)

I work in the NHS.  I agree wholeheartedly with the principles of Trade Unionism.

But some of the actions of UNISON locally have appeared a bit suspect IMO.  I don't want to get into a debate about the specifics, because I'm not convinced I know the the truth of what's been going on.  The main point for me, in the context of my decision whether or not to join, is that either their local actions have been directed at the wrong target, or they haven't communicated the facts of the dispute very well.

*So - I want to support a Union, and UNISON are the natural organisation for me to join, but I'm undecided.*

It's akin to how I felt about the NUS when I was a student.  I agreed with the principle, but the reality was that it had been co-opted by wannabe career politicians.

I've been mulling this for a while, but the ConDem attack on the NHS in general, and the TUC demonstration in particular, has made me realise it's time I stopped prevaricating.

There's a wealth of experience and knowledge of this kind of thing on here, so I thought throwing it open to a thread may help me decide.

Please don't be distracted by my second paragraph.  That's not what this thread is about, it's just a loose explanation of my hesitancy.  The bit in bold is what matters.

Ta.


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## frogwoman (Mar 27, 2011)

Unison are indeed utter shit at a national and often at a local level, but I'm a member of them because it's the recognised union at my workplace. Besides the only way it will ever change is if people like us join and get involved.


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## Proper Tidy (Mar 27, 2011)

Unison are often shit, but yeah of course you should. Always better to be in the union. Bargain at the price.


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## StoneRoad (Mar 27, 2011)

QUOTE{So - I want to support a Union, and UNISON are the natural organisation for me to join, but I'm undecided.}

Well, I would go ahead and join UNISON. "United we stand".......may be of greater importance at the moment.

After you have joined, you *may* be able to find out what has / or hasn't / been going on with the local dispute you mention. But, if you think something about it needs doing - mostly, that can only be done from inside, if you know what I mean. Reform imposed from outside rarely works as well as changes that evolve from internal drives......


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## FiFi (Mar 27, 2011)

Are you in a branch/profession with it's own recognised organisation. 
Unison is not the only union in town as luckily the NHS is not a closed shop.

But please, for the love of god, join one of the unions. There may or may not be actions you don't approve of in the local branch but the way to change that is to get involved.

Also, the reality of the situation is that all of us need to make our voices heard over the proposed changes to the NHS and the only way we'll be heard is to be part of a union
(sorry if I'm preaching to the converted but I'm on a bit of a mission at the moment!  )


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## Proper Tidy (Mar 27, 2011)

Always best to join the union which most of the workplace are in, even if it is shit tbh


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## Corax (Mar 27, 2011)

FiFi said:


> Are you in a branch/profession with it's own recognised organisation.
> Unison is not the only union in town as luckily the NHS is not a closed shop.


Project management?  lol   I'm one of the evil bastards the tabloids say the NHS doesn't need.



FiFi said:


> But please, for the love of god, join one of the unions. There may or may not be actions you don't approve of in the local branch but the way to change that is to get involved.
> 
> Also, the reality of the situation is that all of us need to make our voices heard over the proposed changes to the NHS and the only way we'll be heard is to be part of a union
> (sorry if I'm preaching to the converted but I'm on a bit of a mission at the moment!  )


I know I know I know.....  Definitely preaching to the converted.  The only reason I'm not already unionised is that I'm conflicted over how they get abused by facile arseholes.  Some very fair points made in this thread about how to change that though - not from the outside.

And this is no time for fence-sitting.


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## FiFi (Mar 27, 2011)

Corax said:


> Project management?  lol   I'm one of the evil bastards the tabloids say the NHS doesn't need.
> 
> 
> I know I know I know.....  Definitely preaching to the converted.  The only reason I'm not already unionised is that I'm conflicted over how they get abused by facile arseholes.  Some very fair points made in this thread about how to change that though - not from the outside.
> ...



What's that saying about being inside the tent peeing out, instead of being ouside peeing in!?

Seriously, join up, turn up at the meetings and you'll proberably be branch rep. in 3 months. Afterall, you know as well as I do that the local branchs are usually crying out for bodies to do the work!

(Do a good job and people may even over look the fact you're management!  )


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## frogwoman (Mar 27, 2011)

Join it.


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## Puddy_Tat (Mar 27, 2011)

I also have somewhat mixed feelings about UNISON - I was at one time a rep, but after I stood down (mainly on health grounds), I got very little support when management then did their best to push me out.

The snag is that at workplace level, the reps are effectively those who are prepared to volunteer their time, and in some cases it's more for personal or political reasons than wanting to help colleagues.

There is something of a circle where people say they won't get involved - or even go to meetings - because the reps are "unrepresentative"...

Ultimately, I'd strongly recommend you join A union.  There may (as someone has said) be more than one union active in your workplace, and there's likely to be more than one that does have some people in your line of work  (GMB? - I don't know a lot about them)  You're not compelled to join one that is formally recognised by your employer, but the latter is potentially more use.


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## Proper Tidy (Mar 27, 2011)

Potentially? Of course it is more use.


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## audiotech (Mar 27, 2011)

Unison have supported me on more than one occasion and I will be eternally grateful to the union officials who carried out some sterling work on my behalf.


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## Corax (Mar 27, 2011)

Done deal.  I only needed a nudge, and you've all done enough for that.  

I'll probably be back in a couple of months asking how to deal with being sacked/sidelined by my boss because of it. 

That may be only half-joking tbh....


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## The39thStep (Mar 27, 2011)

I have been a member for years. Branches vary as individuals come and go but unless there is a real viable local alternative join them.


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## Proper Tidy (Mar 27, 2011)

Nah health is proper organised in that respect. Mind you, you could be asking how to deal with being expelled/sidelined by Unison. Don't ever use any monkey pics whatever you do.


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## Corax (Mar 27, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Nah health is proper organised in that respect.


 
How many 'management'* in Unison though?

* I don't manage any people, but I'm still an evil Trust HQ corporate shitbag, source of all that is bad and unholy.


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## FiFi (Mar 27, 2011)

No chance of being shafted by your boss for being in a union 
In the NHS you are entitled to time off  for your union duties if you're a rep. It's one of the benefits we still have atm.


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## Proper Tidy (Mar 27, 2011)

Corax said:


> How many 'management'* in Unison though?
> 
> * I don't manage any people, but I'm still an evil Trust HQ corporate shitbag, source of all that is bad and unholy.


 
I dunno, never been in health - afaik health doesn't have any separate bosses' unions like the civil service though.


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## FiFi (Mar 27, 2011)

Corax said:


> How many 'management'* in Unison though?
> 
> * I don't manage any people, but I'm still an evil Trust HQ corporate shitbag, source of all that is bad and unholy.


 
More than you'd think.
Some NHS management have still come up through the ranks (so to speak) and have been in unions/professional bodies themselves.


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## Puddy_Tat (Mar 27, 2011)

Proper Tidy said:


> Potentially? Of course it is more use.


 
I think I meant probably not potentially.  Although I have found some union branches not to be a great deal of use...

As for the managers in unions thing?  Probably some.

Some people do think they should at least leave, if not be actively hostile towards, the union when they reach a certain level.

Some managers are keen to have the legal representation and that sort of stuff that it offers even if they aren't that active, some are happy to be / stay active (one place i worked, one of our most anti-union managers suddenly joined the union and expressed views somewhat to the left of arthur scargill once *his* job was at risk)

Some manager / union members seem to attend union meetings so they can report back to their bosses - so it's possible that some people may question your motivation

I do wonder if it would be more comfortable all round if once you get above a certain level, you're treated as a "managers' constituency" in terms of representation, so that there's a rep or two who specialise in representing management grades.

One place I worked, the branch rep at one office was the manager of that office, which was slightly odd...


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## Plumdaff (Mar 27, 2011)

Some health areas have GMB and Unite also, and having been in the former I found it was much better on a one-to-one level when I needed it than the one time I needed UNISON (a situation in which, sadly, the bloody RCN rep was more radical and useful!). However, I now work in a UNISON only area, and whilst I still think it's shite, I am a member. They did get round to sending me one whole email about the 26th 

You will find that UNISON will have managers in it, particularly clinical managers who worked their way up from the shop floor.


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## Corax (Mar 27, 2011)

There shouldn't be a difference IMO.  I'm better with spreadsheets than catheters is all.

Oh, and I started on a band 2.


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## quimcunx (Mar 27, 2011)

*remembers something someone told me the other  night about polishing the outside of the windows and complaining that the insides of the windows are still dirty*


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## Plumdaff (Mar 27, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> *remembers something someone told me the other  night about polishing the outside of the windows and complaining that the insides of the windows are still dirty*


 
I've been both a GMB and a UNISON rep, stopped when I moved into my current post in a different trust and there's already an experienced rep in the team. My experiences of being a rep in both organisations only adds to my feeling that the GMB was better (far more education, political training and workplace support)


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## stethoscope (Mar 28, 2011)

I'm with Unison - echo froggy and PT over them at a national level but when it comes to being represented in your workplace, it's really about how good your local rep is and how visible/active they are.

Ultimately, when I and colleagues in the past have experienced difficulties at work, and HR/management have been frankly unhelpful, union assistance has been invaluable.


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## Fedayn (Mar 28, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> I have been a member for years. Branches vary as individuals come and go but unless there is a real viable local alternative join them.


 
Bang on.


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## Sgt Howie (Mar 28, 2011)

Corax said:


> I work in the NHS.  I agree wholeheartedly with the principles of Trade Unionism.
> 
> But some of the actions of UNISON locally have appeared a bit suspect IMO.  I don't want to get into a debate about the specifics, because I'm not convinced I know the the truth of what's been going on.  The main point for me, in the context of my decision whether or not to join, is that either their local actions have been directed at the wrong target, or they haven't communicated the facts of the dispute very well.
> 
> ...


 
Join. It's not all about you.


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## stuff_it (Mar 28, 2011)

stephj said:


> I'm with Unison - echo froggy and PT over them at a national level but when it comes to being represented in your workplace, it's really about how good your local rep is and how visible/active they are.
> 
> Ultimately, when I and colleagues in the past have experienced difficulties at work, and HR/management have been frankly unhelpful, union assistance has been invaluable.


 
This, plus of course if you are *that* bothered, once you join you could try and do something about it.


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## Corax (Mar 28, 2011)

Sgt Howie said:


> Join. It's not all about you.


 
It's not about me _at all_, thanks.

It's the political solidarity and national perspective that I'm interested in.  I suppose the workplace representation could conceivably come in useful one day, but it's not a factor in my decision in the slightest.


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## audiotech (Mar 28, 2011)

stephj said:


> Ultimately, when I and colleagues in the past have experienced difficulties at work, and HR/management have been frankly unhelpful, union assistance has been invaluable.



All HR departments are the tool of management.


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## stethoscope (Mar 28, 2011)

audiotech said:


> All HR departments are the tool of management.



Aye. One of the more recent issues we're working on at the moment is that Occ Health have ceased to be there to directly support and help staff (so y'know, they can in turn be happier and more productive employees) but that it's now become a management function instead. You can't even make an appointment with Occ Health where I am now in private without having to get managers to refer you.


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## Sgt Howie (Mar 28, 2011)

Corax said:


> It's not about me _at all_, thanks.
> 
> It's the political solidarity and national perspective that I'm interested in.  I suppose the workplace representation could conceivably come in useful one day, but it's not a factor in my decision in the slightest.


 
Why do you even have to give it a second thought then?


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## Corax (Mar 28, 2011)

Sgt Howie said:


> Why do you even have to give it a second thought then?


 
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...oin-UNISON?p=11631574&viewfull=1#post11631574


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## Spanky Longhorn (Mar 29, 2011)

Get active in your branch, it can be a very good union indeed if you're in the right branch, try and get to a branch meeting (if they have them).


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## Hinny (Mar 31, 2011)

I work for the NHS, but in a Trust and directorate with a massive Unison majority, in my department I've forund myself in a Unite enclave. For that reason I've joined unite, but haven't seen the slightest hint of activity beyond minor workplace disputes. What I'd actually like to do, though, is piggyback on the advice on this thread to ask if anyone has experience of political fund exemptions. If I understand right, Unison's political funds are winged and both are opt-in on joining, is that correct? Whereas Unite's is a single, Labour-affiliated fund which is opt-out through a hand signed doctor's note style declaration buried in the union rule book. I can't stomach that few penceworth of affiliated funds, so almost joined Unison instead, but the majority was too strong. Is fund exemption a touchy subject in some branches?


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## jessop (Jan 21, 2014)

By all means join a union, but not Unison. They will not help you. They do not respond to phone calls or e mails, and because of this you can't even use their complaints procedure. Certainly not worth the subscription.


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