# New series of Doctor Who starts tonight!



## moomoo (Apr 5, 2008)

I'm so excited I think I'll wee my knickers!   

Looks ace from the trailers.................

Oh, and the kids are looking forward to it too!


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## magneze (Apr 5, 2008)

Am looking forward to this.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2008)

It'd better be good.

I need some real Who to wipe away the hideous memories of how rubbish Torchwood was last night


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## maomao (Apr 5, 2008)

I'll still be at work.  When's the repeat?


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## magneze (Apr 5, 2008)

Sunday I think ..


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## dodgepot (Apr 5, 2008)

are me and my wife the only people in the world who have no truck with doctor who?


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## moomoo (Apr 5, 2008)

Yes.


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## nino_savatte (Apr 5, 2008)

Catherine Tate? No thanks.


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## wishface (Apr 5, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> It'd better be good.
> 
> I need some real Who to wipe away the hideous memories of how rubbish Torchwood was last night


Quite, I don't know how anyone thinks a painfully bad attempt at adult scifi (set in Cardiff!?!) with terrible wit is doing good things for the Who universe. It's just so awful.


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

I'm not sure I can be bothered. I'll tune in if I've not got anything better to do, but I think this show really has "jumped the shark" of late. I really don't think Catherine Tate is right for the show at all. I enjoyed a fair bit of her comedy series, but don't think this is a good move and I didn't enjoy her in _The Runaway Bride _at all. 

What next? Ricky Gervais as the Doctor?


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

wishface said:


> Quite, I don't know how anyone thinks a painfully bad attempt at adult scifi (set in Cardiff!?!) with terrible wit is doing good things for the Who universe. It's just so awful.



Yes, Torchwood puts me in mind of _Garth Marenghi's Darkplace _- only NOT done as an _intentional_ spoof!


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## krtek a houby (Apr 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> I'm not sure I can be bothered. I'll tune in if I've not got anything better to do, but I think this show really has "jumped the shark" of late. I really don't think Catherine Tate is right for the show at all. I enjoyed a fair bit of her comedy series, but don't think this is a good move and I didn't enjoy her in _The Runaway Bride _at all.
> 
> What next? Ricky Gervais as the Doctor?



The Donna character has been toned down for the new series & she's not going to be long term, as far as I'm aware. As I said elsewhere, it could be a lot worse. Remember Bonnie Langford?


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## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> I really don't think Catherine Tate is right for the show at all.


 I'm reserving judgement


> I enjoyed a fair bit of her comedy series,




I thought it a bit shite, but cockney gran did raise a smile.


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## krtek a houby (Apr 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Yes, Torchwood puts me in mind of _Garth Marenghi's Darkplace _- only NOT done as an _intentional_ spoof!



I think the second season improved on the first. I love the way they stroll about looking all stern and meaningful. Keep expecting them to bump into the mob from Primeval, also strolling about looking equally stern and meaningful.

Hmm. Lots of anomalies and rifts about, these days. And why does they seem to occur only in the UK?


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## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2008)

The endless emoting grates a bit. But really its the standard of acting that lets the show down.


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

jer said:


> The Donna character has been toned down for the new series & she's not going to be long term, as far as I'm aware. As I said elsewhere, it could be a lot worse. Remember Bonnie Langford?



I _do _remember Bonnie Langford - and that piece of casting represented _precisely_ the sort of celebrity/stunt casting we're seeing again (I mean, Kylie Mingue!?). It worried me back then and it gives me cause to worry about the trajectory of the show again now. 

I think the show really does need the year's break it's got coming up - I can only hope when it returns it has a bit of a new approach.


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## krtek a houby (Apr 5, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> The endless emoting grates a bit. But really its the standard of acting that lets the show down.



Girl who plays Toshiko is a cut above the rest. And "Nessa" from Gavin and Stacey was in it the other week, she was excellent.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 5, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I need some real Who to wipe away the hideous memories of how rubbish Torchwood was last night


I don't watch Torchwood; it was always a terrible move to remove from Dr Who what makes it special - that it's _family_ viewing.  Just as the Sarah Jane Diaries lose that by trying to do Dr Who just for kids, so Torchwood loses it by trying to be just for adults, and neither works.

You'd think programme makers would get that by now.  Don't they remember the failure of OTT trying to be Tiswas for adults?


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## zoooo (Apr 5, 2008)

They're not removing anything from Dr Who... Dr Who is still family viewing.

That's why they put it in an entirely different show.

And a lot of people DO think Torchwood works. Hence the high viewing figures.


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

I'm hoping this will be good, definately looking forward to it.


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## danny la rouge (Apr 5, 2008)

zoooo said:


> They're not removing anything from Dr Who... Dr Who is still family viewing.


That's right, but in my opinion Torchwood is like Dr Who with the good bits removed.  In my opinion.

Anywa, less than 15 mins to go!


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

I just hope its not as 'emo' as it has been, i hate it when certain bits of the show make me cringe so badly i have to turn over to another channel lol. Never had that problem with the old classic doctor who series.


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

So far my reactions to this have been ..'wtf' and 'meh'.


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## aqua (Apr 5, 2008)

I want one of those little fat things  they're rather cute


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

My reactions are still the same, though its been ok i guess.


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## aqua (Apr 5, 2008)

so, he threw a sonic whatsit in the bin? whats the chances that reappears in another episode


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## innit (Apr 5, 2008)

ooh that was spooky


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## Vash (Apr 5, 2008)

Rose is back, earlier than I expected too.  why not just have Piper then instead of Tate?  I liked seeing Bernard Cribbens again but other than that its sad to say Tate was the best thing in it.  

The Adipose aliens were just insulting and make Mr Blobby seem like the Cloverfield monster. Even a 5 year old would think they were taking the piss.  

A lot of plot holes too like...

Why are the people who are meant to have lost weight still fat?

Flying saucer looked like the one in Close emcounters.

Why does it always kill off the villians why not have some recurring one other than Daleks?


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## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2008)

Yay Who is back!


Tate is not as annoying as she was. Puts torchwood in its place


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

The flying saucer reminded me of a scene in the film independence day actually. Overall the episode was kinda shit imo.

Dr who confidentials looking good tho.


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## Scarlette (Apr 5, 2008)

It wasn't that good was it? I don't care though. I lov David Tennant. I'm not bothered about the plot; I can just look at him and feel a bit funny. Mmm.


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## Maurice Picarda (Apr 5, 2008)

A bit worrying for the opener. I'm getting a bit fed up with sinister corporations being fronts for aliens, as well. Hope there's a fair bit of off-earth action to come.


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## Stigmata (Apr 5, 2008)

I thought it was alright. IIRC they tend to start each series with a fairly lighthearted episode. Last time it was those stompy rhino chaps.

Loved the pink flashing lights on the Adipose car.


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

That was a load of pantomime-esque crap. It felt like one of those crappy American "kids comedy action" movies.

Lame, childish, lots of silly "comedy music" to tell us "this. is. a. funny. bit." Catherine Tate hasn't won me over and the charecter just dosn't convince on any level. 

Utter drivel and I hope not indicative of how the rst of the series will be, but I don't hold out much hope. 

Jesus, and it all looked so new and fresh when it returned with Christopher Ecclestoen back in 2005. Now it's become a formulaic (oh look - _another_ highly-visible visitation by aliens, loads of screaming crowds as this week's aliens go on the rampage ) caricature of itself.

0/10


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

I laughed loads during that, then I got a bit grit in the eye at the end. Bernard Cribbins 

Can't stand Catherine Tate normally but I thought she was good in that.


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## Scarlette (Apr 5, 2008)

aqua said:


> I want one of those little fat things  they're rather cute



I have rather too many of them already. Hoho.


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## Rollem (Apr 5, 2008)

that was a bit rubbish, but still enjoyed it

 am intrigued by rose....


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> That was a load of pantomime-esque crap. It felt like one of those crappy American "kids comedy action" movies.
> 
> Lame, childish, lots of silly "comedy music" to tell us "this. is. a. funny. bit." Catherine Tate hasn't won me over and the charecter just dosn't convince on any level.
> 
> ...



I agree it was a shit episode to start with but, if you seriously can't find one positive then why do you watch it?


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> That was a load of pantomime-esque crap. It felt like one of those crappy American "kids comedy action" movies.
> 
> Lame, childish, lots of silly "comedy music" to tell us "this. is. a. funny. bit." Catherine Tate hasn't won me over and the charecter just dosn't convince on any level.
> 
> ...



You are Marvin and I claim my £5


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I agree it was a shit episode to start with but, if you seriously can't find one positive then why do you watch it?



I _have_ to - I'm  a Doctor Who fan born n' bread! It's just how it works


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

I know the feelin, but you don't sound like a fan! With all that criticism there i mean, but yeah whatever!


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

I bet poster's favourite Doctor was Patrick Troughton


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## _angel_ (Apr 5, 2008)

It was okay. It's still going to beat roller-blading-on-ice or whatever nonsense passes as Saturday night 'entertainment'. Nothing will be as good as the first series with Chris Ecclestone. The subsequent ones have been patchy (mainly a bit crap with the odd good episode thrown in) David Tennant seems to have toned it down, which can only be a good thing!
Let's have Billie Piper back now.


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

Just listening to the guy who writes this shit sayin he wanted the aliens to look cute/funny, wtf kinda drugs is he on?


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## wishface (Apr 5, 2008)

That was pure umitigated bollocks. Very disappointed.


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

cesare said:


> I bet poster's favourite Doctor was Patrick Troughton



No, I'm a Peter Davison man, myself!  _That_ era had some truley amazing, gritty stories. Compare something like _Earthshock, Kinda, Resurrection of the Daleks or Caves of Androzani _to tonights shite (which puts me in mind of the 7th Doctor's first abysmal story;_Time and the Rani _) and see what I mean.


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

wishface said:


> That was pure umitigated bollocks. Very disappointed.



You're not usually pleased with anything, tbf


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> No, I'm a Peter Davison man, myself!  _That_ era had some truley amazing, gritty stories. Compare something like _Earthsock, Kinda, Resurrection of the Daleks or Caves of Androzani _to tonights shite and see what I mean.



It was a lead-in, man ... give it a chance!!!

I used to hide behind the settee when the cybermen came on


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## Maurice Picarda (Apr 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> No, I'm a Peter Davison man, myself!  _That_ era had some truley amazing, gritty stories. .


 
Agreed. 



poster342002 said:


> Jesus, and it all looked so new and fresh when it returned with Christopher Ecclestoen back in 2005. Now it's become a formulaic (oh look - _another_ highly-visible visitation by aliens, loads of screaming crowds as this week's aliens go on the rampage ) caricature of itself.
> 
> 0/10


 
Although it hasn't exactly been a linear decline over the course of the reboot. _Blink_ and _The Family of Blood_ from the last series were outstanding.


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

cesare said:


> It was a lead-in, man ... give it a chance!!!


And a thoroughly rubbish one when compared to lead-ins we've had in the past.  


cesare said:


> I used to hide behind the settee when the cybermen came on



I certainly hid behind the settee in embarrasment when this drivel was on.


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## wishface (Apr 5, 2008)

cesare said:


> You're not usually pleased with anything, tbf


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## senny dreadful (Apr 5, 2008)

I've been bitching and moaning about the (stunt) casting of Tate ever since we heard about it, but I may actually have to eat my words. Even though she almost lapsed into sweary old lady at one point, she _was_ the best thing in the episode. And I'd really love a few episodes free of the unrequited love angst wank that has plagued the rest of the series, and here in Donna we finally have a companion who doesn't want to boink the Doctor.

Which is why I'm disappointed that Billie Big Face has made an appearance again so soon. Urgh.

The little fat blobs things were shit though. What numptys have they got doing their special effects these days?


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

wishface said:


>


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Although it hasn't exactly been a linear decline over the course of the reboot. _Blink_ and _The Family of Blood_ from the last series were outstanding.



True, but these gems are rapidly being outnumbered by the dross. 

Christ, we'll get the predictable CGI space-dust being puffed out of someone's gob before long in one of the episodes, just wait.


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> And a thoroughly rubbish one when compared to lead-ins we've had in the past.
> 
> 
> I certainly hid behind the settee in embarrasment when this drivel was on.



I can't imagine you or wishface as one of those little adipose babies, waving and smiling. 

Actually, I'm surprised no-one's started a thread yet about how the latest Doctor Who is fattist or summat


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## wishface (Apr 5, 2008)

what else can they do when the script calls for cute aliens made from blobs of human fat?

Ugh. 

Someone needs to punch Russell T Davies in the face.


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

And talk about ham!


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## innit (Apr 5, 2008)

senny dreadful said:


> I've been bitching and moaning about the (stunt) casting of Tate ever since we heard about it, but I may actually have to eat my words. Even though she almost lapsed into sweary old lady at one point, she _was_ the best thing in the episode. And I'd really love a few episodes free of the unrequited love angst wank that has plagued the rest of the series, and here in Donna we finally have a companion who doesn't want to boink the Doctor.



I agree 

I wasn't looking forward to Tate but she was actually quite bearable, maybe she'll even be good now they've got the boring preliminaries over with.  And I am very pleased he's got a grown up woman for a companion instead of running around with jailbait


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

wishface said:


> Someone needs to punch Russell T Davies in the face.



I actually agree there. He looks like he's 'lost the plot' a bit from what i was seeing in confidential...


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

senny dreadful said:


> I've been bitching and moaning about the (stunt) casting of Tate ever since we heard about it, but I may actually have to eat my words. Even though she almost lapsed into sweary old lady at one point, she _was_ the best thing in the episode. And I'd really love a few episodes free of the unrequited love angst wank that has plagued the rest of the series, and here in Donna we finally have a companion who doesn't want to boink the Doctor.
> 
> Which is why I'm disappointed that Billie Big Face has made an appearance again so soon. Urgh.
> 
> The little fat blobs things were shit though. What numptys have they got doing their special effects these days?



Yeah, I fucking shuddered when she appeared (didn't read/know about it before) but I'd kind of changed my mind by the end.

You want 'to mate'


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## _angel_ (Apr 5, 2008)

innit said:


> I agree
> 
> I wasn't looking forward to Tate but she was actually quite bearable, maybe she'll even be good now they've got the boring preliminaries over with.  And I am very pleased he's got a grown up woman for a companion instead of running around with jailbait



She's a better actress than comedienne, definitely.. but could she be worse?/


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

And I feel like I've seen those silly blobby things before somewhere - or something very _like_ them.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> And I feel like I've seen those silly blobby things before somewhere - or something very _like_ them.




I kept expecting one of em to morph into that annoying trombone lurpack-thing. yuk


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

What was Russel T Davies saying on confidential? I missed it to pop out to the internet cafe to post on here.


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## wishface (Apr 5, 2008)

I think perhaps it was Rose that picked up the Master's ring at the end of S3 and not that bird he was with.


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## Maurice Picarda (Apr 5, 2008)

wishface said:


> Someone needs to punch Russell T Davies in the face.


 
Davies has been responsible for all of the worst episodes, and none of the best ones. Yes, kill him. Put Steven Moffat in charge.


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## poster342002 (Apr 5, 2008)

Didn't RTD write _The Sound of Drums_? I thought that one was pretty good.


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## zoooo (Apr 5, 2008)

RTD has written some good episodes, but Moffat is the best writer, clearly.

I really liked this episode! Tate is fine, nowhere near the disaster I was imagining. I loved the shock Billie appearance, but I don't think she's back in it again for ages.



poster342002 said:


> And I feel like I've seen those silly blobby things before somewhere - or something very _like_ them.



Maybe you're thinking of the cute litle milk carton in that blur video!


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> What was Russel T Davies saying on confidential? I missed it to pop out to the internet cafe to post on here.



He was sayin shit like he wanted the aliens to be cute/funny n stupid stuff like that. I didn't pay close attention to much else, other than when they were all sitting around the table and reading their lines to each other. That was pretty interesting to watch, only something about Russell T. Davies when he's sitting there makes me want to punch him. 

One thing that annoys me is that it seems that every episode is on earth..i know they're meant to be going to the planet of the ood later in the series, but the majority of them will be on fucking earth. I remember back in the old series when they mixed it up a bit...


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## senny dreadful (Apr 5, 2008)

innit said:


> I agree
> 
> I wasn't looking forward to Tate but she was actually quite bearable, maybe she'll even be good now they've got the boring preliminaries over with.  And I am very pleased he's got a grown up woman for a companion instead of running around with jailbait



Yes indeed! Less wangst, more story I say. 

Although I suppose everyone is gonna be jailbait to the Doctor... 

The blobby fat things reminded me of this little guy:


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

Is it just me, or is it not as spooky anymore?


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

Well when aliens are cute and funny, what do ya expect?!


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## zoooo (Apr 5, 2008)

They do funny silly episodes, and they do scary dark episodes. You can't judge whether it's 'spooky anymore' by one show.


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

That was just one episode!

I meant, generally

It used to be quite scary when I was a kid, or maybe that's because I was a kid 

I want to know what the kids think


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## innit (Apr 5, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Well when aliens are cute and funny, what do ya expect?!



I don't think they should portray all aliens as evil and sociopathic, that would be alienist 

However strictly speaking they weren't really aliens, just animated fat, right?


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## senny dreadful (Apr 5, 2008)

They also looked a bit like some things I drew in a comic once.


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## mrsfran (Apr 5, 2008)

zoooo said:


> Maybe you're thinking of the cute litle milk carton in that blur video!


 
You absolute genius. It was bothering the hell out of me what they reminded me of. Little milk carton blur guy! Thanks.


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## TrippyLondoner (Apr 5, 2008)

There's an old episode of doctor who on bbcfour right now, the first ever daleks with william hartnell one, already got it tho!


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## Relahni (Apr 5, 2008)

I thought they looked like this (without the chef hat)


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## spanglechick (Apr 5, 2008)

i liked it.  although i thought it was a bit morally ambiguous - there wouldn't have been any problem at all - the purple lady only died because donna interfered.

I'd love to donate some adipose babies.  Win/win!

I think the doctor/donna dynamic looks really promising - and will bring out another facet to Tennant's Doctor.  I was a bit disappointed to see Rose so early.  The whole 'Rose-was-the-greatest' mythology gets right on my tits.  I mean, she was a great companion - but much less engaging than Sally Sparrow from 'Blink' to name but one...


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> There's an old episode of doctor who on bbcfour right now, the first ever daleks with william hartnell one, already got it tho!




Dammit I've only got terrestrial


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## yardbird (Apr 5, 2008)

cesare said:


> Dammit I've only got terrestrial



Analogue


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## cesare (Apr 5, 2008)

yardbird said:


> Analogue



That too!!!


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 5, 2008)

I enjoyed it, a nice silly episode to get things going, I'm sure it'll settle down.  Tate was good as well.

So, what do we think was going on with Rose at the end there?  Why/how did she vanish like that?


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## Nemo (Apr 5, 2008)

zoooo said:


> but Moffat is the best writer, clearly.



Yep. He wrote _Blink_ (probably the best episode so far), _the Girl in the Fireplace_, and _the Empty Child_/_the Doctor Dances_.


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## moomoo (Apr 5, 2008)

We all thought it was ace!  And I think Catherine Tate will grow on me, she's not as irritating as I thought she would be.  The Rose bit at the end was certainly odd but it will probably be explained eventually.


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## Groucho (Apr 5, 2008)

I thought it was a bit crap. The Dr Who equivelant of ewoks.


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## rollinder (Apr 5, 2008)

I see the wiki link for adipose tissue has been updated already with a referance to this episode

the little fat babies were quite cute - looked like something from a In The Night Garden type childrens programme gone very wrong.
Tonight's was alright - as a romp to reintroduce the series/Donna - but there's a part of me that prefers Torchwood.

btw why was Bernard Cribbins playing Compo?


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## T & P (Apr 5, 2008)

It was alright but I hope the series gets a bit darker... tonight's episode would have made few kids run behind the sofa.

Every now and then I saw a flash of one of Tate's characters (the grandma in particular) but hopefully I'll get used to it. Towards the end of the episode when she thinks he's proposing to mate with her, I was almost expecting her to say 'what a fucking liberty!'


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## zoooo (Apr 5, 2008)

cesare said:


> That was just one episode!
> 
> I meant, generally
> 
> ...



Oh sorry!
My 9 year old niece loves it, and is VERY scared by the scary episodes, yes.
Apparently tons of kids she knows were severely freaked by the weeping statues.

As I was. I don't generally find Daleks or Cybermen scary at all. But the Blink episode scared the shit out of me.


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## Jonti (Apr 5, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I enjoyed it, a nice silly episode to get things going, I'm sure it'll settle down.  Tate was good as well.
> 
> So, what do we think was going on with Rose at the end there?  Why/how did she vanish like that?


Ahh, she's safely parked in another parallel dimension, along with her alien-combating chums. Can't get back to this universe, not quite ... but perhaps is working on it, she's seen into the Tardis vortex, so she's something of a Time Lady. She faded back into her parallel universe as she went to fetch the keys from the bin.

But was it really Rose? ... I wasn't too sure about the jacket.


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## zoooo (Apr 5, 2008)

Ooh, interesting theory. Her eyebrows were tidier than old Rose too.

Jacket + eyebrows = summink dodgy going on.


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## moomoo (Apr 5, 2008)

zoooo said:


> Oh sorry!
> My 9 year old niece loves it, and is VERY scared by the scary episodes, yes.
> Apparently tons of kids she knows were severely freaked by the weeping statues.
> 
> As I was. I don't generally find Daleks or Cybermen scary at all. But the Blink episode scared the shit out of me.



Me too.  We had a day out at a stately home soon after that episode and I found myself looking at all the statues in the gardens to make sure they hadn't moved.


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## feyr (Apr 5, 2008)

moomoo, i did a a night shift and kept thinking i saw things moving from the corner of my eye


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## Nine Bob Note (Apr 5, 2008)

The series opener is always light-hearted ((re)introduce characters, surroundings, technology etc...) so I can't imagine why anyone was expecting full-on scare/war/intrigue. Adipose aside, Sarah Lancashire, for her efforts, made a top-notch villain, and I'm sorry they killed her off so soon. A couple of additional armed-guards wouldn't have gone a miss. All a bit 'Skeletor takes over the universe, ably assisted by none but Beast-Man and Trap-Jaw'.

The surprise appearance of Rose is both mysterious and, dare I say, potentially malevolent, suggesting it was she who pocketed the Master's ring at the end of the previous series, and has more on her agenda than hooking-up with an old friend and whizzing merrily about the universe. Sorry classic fans; I doubt the jewellery-thief was Kate O'Mara, or any of her subsequent regenerations.


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## Wilf (Apr 5, 2008)

Purile shite, but I'll let them off because they always try and slip the odd light 'jokey'  episode in.  Trouble was there wasn't much of a joke _in it. _ Still, lets hope its got it out of the system.

Suppose it was also (fairly obviously) an attempt to get into the zeitgeist about snake oil and effort free slimming.  Trouble was, it didn't even take that idea anywhere.  Didn't get into any mini human dramas as to _why _the punters might be desparate for the fat cure thingy.  Very shoddy.

Also, the idea of him having 3 assistants on the go - or at least in his emotions, doesn't bode well plot wise.


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## zoooo (Apr 5, 2008)

I thought there were lots of jokes in it, made me laugh out loud several times.


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## fucthest8 (Apr 5, 2008)

4thwrite said:


> Purile shite



(a) You mean puerile

(b) It's on at 6.20 pm, what the fuck are you on about? Yes, it's often well written stuff that works on several levels, but for fucks sake, get over yourself.

You called Dr. Who puerile. Think about that for a moment. (Let's not even go into the fact that you couldn't spell it).


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## Wilf (Apr 5, 2008)

fucthest8 said:


> (a) You mean puerile
> 
> (b) It's on at 6.20 pm, what the fuck are you on about? Yes, it's often well written stuff that works on several levels, but for fucks sake, get over yourself.
> 
> You called Dr. Who puerile. Think about that for a moment. (Let's not even go into the fact that you couldn't spell it).



Blimey! Sounds like you've had a good night 

And yes, I did mean puerile - I missed a letter.  I often do, due to spinal problem which affects my hands.  Okay sweetie?


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## fucthest8 (Apr 6, 2008)

Fair enough. Whatever, frankly, as  I notice you ignore the main point. Which is that you accuse a program that was on at 6.20pm of being childish; and then call it shoddy for not "going into any mini-dramas ... "

Really. I'll say it again. For fucks sake, get over yourself.

And yes, I've had a lovely evening thanks, watched Dr Who with the kids, ate a very nice risotto-y thing, watched Sin City which I'd never seen before (Hmmm to that film) and now I'm here.


----------



## fucthest8 (Apr 6, 2008)

I feel obliged to tear this to bits now.



4thwrite said:


> Suppose it was also (fairly obviously) an attempt to get into the zeitgeist about snake oil and effort free slimming.  Trouble was, it didn't even take that idea anywhere.  Didn't get into any mini human dramas as to _why _the punters might be desparate for the fat cure thingy.  Very shoddy



It's 50 minutes long for fuck sake! Plus, they did make the point that people are so desperate to lose weight without putting any effort in, that they will use any charlaton old crap that promises weight loss, without any consideration of the consequences. In a program that's on at 6.20pm



4thwrite said:


> Also, the idea of him having 3 assistants on the go - or at least in his emotions, doesn't bode well plot wise.



Really? Why not? The idea that perhaps he does actually think about his old assistants, that he develops feelings for them, is an entirely new idea to Dr Who; in the past he has just moved on and oh I really can't be fucking bothered. To think that _you_ called this episode puerile.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 6, 2008)

fucthest8 said:


> I feel obliged to tear this to bits now.
> 
> 
> 
> It's 50 minutes long for fuck sake! Plus, they did make the point that people are so desperate to lose weight without putting any effort in, that they will use any *charlaton* old crap that promises weight loss, without any consideration of the consequences. In a program that's on at 6.20pm.



 




> Really? Why not? The idea that perhaps he does actually think about his old assistants, that he develops feelings for them, is an entirely new idea to Dr Who; in the past he has just moved on and oh *I really can't be fucking bothered*. To think that _you_ called this episode puerile



Well, actually, you *can *be bothered - you seem _very _bothered by the whole thing.


----------



## fucthest8 (Apr 6, 2008)

Oops 

Still not going to discuss any of it then? I have to confess that I _am_ bothered by you posting up a load of shit and then not being able to defend any of it, but specifically what I was saying was that I couldn't be bothered tearing your original post to bits any more.

Still, given that you haven't attempted to defend any of your original post, I presume you realise that it was just a load of old shit.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 6, 2008)

fucthest8 said:


> Oops
> 
> Still not going to discuss any of it then? I have to confess that I _am_ bothered by you posting up a load of shit and then not being able to defend any of it, but specifically what I was saying was that I couldn't be bothered tearing your original post to bits any more.
> 
> Still, given that you haven't attempted to defend any of your original post, I presume you realise that it was just a load of old shit.



'Defend my original post'!  Its a thread where people post up their reactions to a _TV programme _- not a piece of lit crit.  I was more interested in your effing and jeffing - was as if I'd pissed on the grave of your revered ancestors!

I simply thought it was poor.  Yes, its _kind of _a kids programme and it transmits in the light entertainment slot.  But since it was revived many of the episodes work as modern fables, work on different levels etc.  I don't think this one did.  As to whether having 3 assistants in play will work, i suggested it won't.  You think it will.  To be honest, I haven't got much riding on the issue, so i hope you are right!


----------



## spikey_r (Apr 6, 2008)

the thing with the new (2005 onwards) Doctor Who is that each series has an underlying connecting theme which only usually becomes apparent towards the end of the series. 

if you can remember back to the first episode of the last series, at the end when the Doctor offered to take Martha for the one trip. in the alleyway where the tardis was parked(?) there were 'Vote Saxon' posters all over the place, but nobody really noticed because at that time there was no significance. this time round i think the trick is to take more notice of 'stuff/scenes/comments' which are in the periphery. 

the comment that the Adipose planet was lost has to have some significance somewhere  in the forthcoming weeks.

that aside, i wasn't totally overwhelmed with tonights episode, but i've just watched it again on iplayer and it has changed my opinion a bit.


----------



## wishface (Apr 6, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> He was sayin shit like he wanted the aliens to be cute/funny n stupid stuff like that. I didn't pay close attention to much else, other than when they were all sitting around the table and reading their lines to each other. That was pretty interesting to watch, only something about Russell T. Davies when he's sitting there makes me want to punch him.
> 
> One thing that annoys me is that it seems that every episode is on earth..i know they're meant to be going to the planet of the ood later in the series, but the majority of them will be on fucking earth. I remember back in the old series when they mixed it up a bit...


no only that, but every episode is set in the same estate in London in 21st century England. 

It's all becoming a bity of a joke. Dr Who used to have family appeal but never in such a deliberate and jokey way. 

I think the best episdoes have been those without the blatant humour, and the worst are those that have it,


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 6, 2008)

wishface said:


> the worst are those that have it,


 
Cf the Absorbalof one with the blow-job gag. Dreadful beyond belief. And RTD, of course.


----------



## butterfly child (Apr 6, 2008)

zoooo said:


> Oh sorry!
> My 9 year old niece loves it, and is VERY scared by the scary episodes, yes.
> Apparently *tons of kids she knows were severely freaked by the weeping statues.*
> 
> As I was. I don't generally find Daleks or Cybermen scary at all. But the Blink episode scared the shit out of me.



I was freaked by those statues!

BTW, Rose comes back this series - dunno how long for - when the world she ended up in comes to an end. Or something like that.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 6, 2008)

Anyone notice the music when Rose was in it? It was the same as when she left...and for some reason it got my emotions going for a bit. Not that I got emotional during the episode when she left...no way.


----------



## cybertect (Apr 6, 2008)

Tate wasn't as irritating as I expected, and I feared the worst after the 'bride' Xmas episode.



TrippyLondoner said:


> The flying saucer reminded me of a scene in the film independence day actually.



The design of the ship was a direct lift from _Close Encounters of the Third Kind_. I could almost swear I heard something of the Close Encounters theme going on in the soundtrack too. 








cesare said:


> Is it just me, or is it not as spooky anymore?





fucthest8 said:


> It's on at 6.20 pm



I've heard murmurs that Russell T Davies wasn't too happy about the earlier slot as it limited the opportunities for story lines they'd want to use.


----------



## wishface (Apr 6, 2008)

butterfly child said:


> I was freaked by those statues!
> 
> BTW, Rose comes back this series - dunno how long for - when the world she ended up in comes to an end. Or something like that.


3 episodes i heard.

can't say i really care. more 'i love you dr who' crap. just what the show needs.


----------



## wishface (Apr 6, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Cf the Absorbalof one with the blow-job gag. Dreadful beyond belief. And RTD, of course.


thats the episode i had in mind.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 6, 2008)

wishface said:


> 3 episodes i heard.
> 
> can't say i really care. more 'i love you dr who' crap. just what the show needs.



His name isn't 'Dr Who'. N00b.


----------



## wishface (Apr 6, 2008)

What is his name then, Craig Who? Dave? Steve?


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2008)

wishface said:


> What is his name then, Craig Who? Dave? Steve?



The Doctor.


----------



## wishface (Apr 6, 2008)

youre an idiot.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 6, 2008)

lol@urbaners geting bitchy about doctor who..


----------



## Belushi (Apr 6, 2008)

wishface said:


> youre an idiot.



Thats his name, he has no other. Have a look at the credits etc.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 6, 2008)

I always wondered why the Doctor and his timelord enemies got cool names with 'the' in front of them. The master, the Rani, etc etc


----------



## senny dreadful (Apr 6, 2008)

wishface said:


> thats the episode i had in mind.



I quite enjoyed bits of that episode, but Moaning Myrtle with a blow job gag? Urrgh.

Dr Who always produces the most vicious of arguments. Who fans just seem to be really angry.

(mind you, I have been known to have a little rant about it myself)


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 6, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> i liked it.  although i thought it was a bit morally ambiguous - there wouldn't have been any problem at all - the purple lady only died because donna interfered.
> 
> I'd love to donate some adipose babies.  Win/win!
> 
> I think the doctor/donna dynamic looks really promising - and will bring out another facet to Tennant's Doctor.  I was a bit disappointed to see Rose so early.  The whole 'Rose-was-the-greatest' mythology gets right on my tits.  I mean, she was a great companion - but much less engaging than Sally Sparrow from 'Blink' to name but one...



I'm with you on this.

I was very sceptical when Catherine Tate was announced as the new assistant but she was good - and I did find it funny when she had all her clothes packed up in the boot of her car- and I also liked the adipose. They were cute, especially when they waved or danced about a bit. I'd quite like one myself tbh

Not a brilliant episode but a good start. And it's always nice to see Bernard Cribbins, hope he'll be back


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 6, 2008)

wishface said:


> Someone needs to punch Russell T Davies in the face.


Yup.  That was a terrible episode.  Possibly something they could have got away with hidden a few episodes into a successful run, but as an opener?  I don't think so.  

Tate was, surprisingly, good.  And there were one or two jokes that worked.  But the quality of the story was dire. My kids (8 and 12) have nothing but goodwill for Dr Who, and they were pretty disappointed, although perked up when Rose made her appearance.  Hopefully later episodes are better!  Has RTD written any more this time?


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2008)

quite average, but also reasonably watchable. tate was grand, lancashire too. Shame they didnt give Cribbins some lines referring back to the Cushing movie.  

Thats the RTD, too soppy by half, episode out of the way tho, it can only get better.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 6, 2008)

I'm keeping out of Dr Who specific discussions at the mo,  but watching this one did make me realise what I dislike about a lot of sci fi generically.  So many plotlines work with the notion of mass gullibility - a whole population being duped by aliens/evil scientist/their government - no, more than that, actually _enthusiastic _for the deception that is played upon them.  The only ones who can see the deception are the hero/heroine/small child/seemingly mad person - who eventually undermine the whole myth and remove the scales from the eyes of the masses.  Sci fi isn't alone in doing this, and to be honest it can be fun, but its a bit one dimensional.  Conspiraloonery with high production values.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 6, 2008)

Hmmm, felt a bit underwhelmed by this episode. I thought Tate overacted just a tad (just a tad, mind). Tennant was on form, but I wanted Moar. It was definitely one for the kids, but left me a bit cold. The adipose were cute, I'll give them that. Seeing Donna waving out the door of the Tardis at the end was laughable and I visibly cringed.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 6, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> It was definitely one for the kids


Well, not _my_ kids; they were as underwhelmed as anyone.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 6, 2008)

That was quite shit. 

Interesting premise and then went all ewok when it could have gone a lot darker. Tennants constant gurning is starting to get on my tits as well.

Catherine Tate is a very good actress. You can tell that from her show if you ignore the general unfunnyness of the material.


----------



## Nemo (Apr 6, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> Interesting premise and then went all ewok



Could have been worse, could have gone


----------



## maomao (Apr 6, 2008)

How come that they couldn't get into the windows cause they were deadlocked but two minutes later it was fine?  Did they get undeadlocked?


----------



## ethel (Apr 6, 2008)

maomao said:


> How come that they couldn't get into the windows cause they were deadlocked but two minutes later it was fine?  Did they get undeadlocked?



i didn't understand that bit either


----------



## MikeMcc (Apr 6, 2008)

belboid said:


> quite average, but also reasonably watchable. tate was grand, lancashire too. Shame they didnt give Cribbins some lines referring back to the Cushing movie.
> 
> Thats the RTD, too soppy by half, episode out of the way tho, it can only get better.


One of the poorest episodes I've seen, possibly even worse than the one with Peter Kay in.  I know they need to set the scene to get the two of them together, but that was taking the mickey, the mimed conversation was a complete waste of five minutes! And what was with the cartoon bit of Sarah Lancashire hanging in the air for 10seconds after the beam switch off, it's not meant to be RoadRunner, FFS! I disagree about Sarah Lancashire, she couldn't have been more wooden if they had made the charcter from a plywood cut-out.

Best bit was the was with Rose appearing at the end.


----------



## wishface (Apr 7, 2008)

Looks like we're going to get the same schtick every week: 'The Doctor' says something, Donna misconstrues or doesn't hear him properly and goes into foghorn mode. THis just seems schizoid ffs.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 7, 2008)

cesare said:


> Is it just me, or is it not as spooky anymore?



No, this was just silly pap - it wasn't even funny. I can take humerous Doctor Who (such as some of the Tom Bakker years), but this just failed as humour and failed as drama.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 7, 2008)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Adipose aside, Sarah Lancashire, for her efforts, made a top-notch villain, and I'm sorry *they killed her off *so soon.



Complete with cartoon-comedy style delayed drop from a precipice followed by "splat" sounds.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 7, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Complete with cartoon-comedy style delayed drop


 
To be fair, none of us know how gravity-inverting tractor beams work or quite what happens when they're switched off, so there's no need to get so Ben Goldacre on that particular point.


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 7, 2008)

maomao said:


> How come that they couldn't get into the windows cause they were deadlocked but two minutes later it was fine?  Did they get undeadlocked?


'Cause he used Sarah Lancashire's sonic pen instead of his sonic screwdriver; presumably the deadlock doesn't lock _her_ out.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 7, 2008)

Why would he throw her sonic pen in a bin though?  Why not keep it?


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 7, 2008)

And was it just me. or did that stupid device the Doctor was holding for much of the episode (not the sonic scredwriver - the other thing) look like a prick-and-balls?


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 7, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Why would he throw her sonic pen in a bin though?  Why not keep it?



Because it's needed to crowbar in a staggeringly convenient plot-device of some kind later in the series?


----------



## maomao (Apr 7, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Because it's needed to crowbar in a staggeringly convenient plot-device of some kind later in the series?



Was it the same bin she put the keys in?


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 7, 2008)

maomao said:


> Was it the same bin she put the keys in?



Not sure. I'd lost he will to care about 5 minutes into this panto of an episode.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> And was it just me. or did that stupid device the Doctor was holding for much of the episode (not the sonic scredwriver - the other thing) look like a prick-and-balls?


Is yours look like that, consult a GP immediately!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 7, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> And was it just me. or did that stupid device the Doctor was holding for much of the episode (not the sonic scredwriver - the other thing) look like a prick-and-balls?





No, Definetly not. Perhaps you subconsciously think David tennant is a wanker, and so envisage anything in his hand as cock-like


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 7, 2008)

Serously - that metallic device with two lights at the bottom end (on two short 'legs' sticking out at angles) and one light at the top of it's shaft. He was using to it trace the alien presence early in the episode. It looked to me like a metallic cock-and-balls. 

Quite apt for this story, ironically.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 7, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Because it's needed to crowbar in a staggeringly convenient plot-device of some kind later in the series?



Sounds about right


----------



## dream_girl (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm glad I missed it - sounds like it's the same old disappointing bollocks that Doctor Who has always been (with occasional exceptions).


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2008)

dream_girl said:


> I'm glad I missed it - sounds like it's the same old disappointing bollocks that Doctor Who has always been (with occasional exceptions).



I only saw the last five minutes (woman falls, tate has a had box, billie looks around and vanishes) . It looked like I had missed a good funepisode but I guess its just the same old shit after all. Doctor Who can suck my balls.


----------



## Dovydaitis (Apr 7, 2008)

i wasnt impressed at all! immissed it saturday as was out, but caught it on iplayer. wish i hadnt. catherine tate was shit, but that was to be expected. the saving grave was that the adiposse were kinda cute! i wouldnt mind the diet if they could stop it before i disappeared!


----------



## wishface (Apr 7, 2008)

Hands up who's sick of the sonic screwdriver. THE most overused plot device in the history of mcguffins.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 7, 2008)

wishface said:


> Hands up who's sick of the sonic screwdriver. THE most overused plot device in the history of mcguffins.



Thats why it got burnt in Davidsons pudding lane thing (The visitation?). Same reason they ditched K9.

He couldnt get or make another one so Im not sure how he has managed it for the new series. 

Boo. The old one looked cooler.


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 7, 2008)

wishface said:


> Hands up who's sick of the sonic screwdriver. THE most overused plot device in the history of mcguffins.


I think Russell T Davies' take on it is, "The plot shouldn't be put on hold for five minutes because the Doctor can't get through a door." I'm inclined to agree with him. And would it make any difference if the Doctor pulled out a laser confibulator instead of a sonic screwdriver to solve whatever space-age problem he was facing? All those old Jon Pertwee episodes where he's "working on a device" to solve the problem basically amount to him spending three episodes to build a Macguffin; why bother when he has a ready-made Macguffin in his pocket?

And I think the new series has been pretty innovative with the screwdriver; they've used it in entertaining ways (that bit where he sticks it into a PA system and blows up the evil robots/Saturday's ep where he sticks two sonic whatnots together). And they've come up with a plot device which limits its effectiveness; the baddies can just put a deadlock seal on their alien gubbins and he can't use the screwdriver.


----------



## Stig (Apr 7, 2008)

Well we thought it was a great episode.

We were quite pissed, mind. 

I think Catherine Tate is going to be good, too, whether she does foghorn swearing cockney gran or not.


----------



## wishface (Apr 7, 2008)

It's being used all the time. Too much for me.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 7, 2008)

wishface said:


> Hands up who's sick of the sonic screwdriver. THE most overused plot device in the history of mcguffins.



Agreed. The damn thing was written out back in the 80s presicely _because_ it had become an overused get-out device. However, that was nothing compared to the overuse of it as a plot-device nowadays - whereupon it pretty much fullfills the role of "magic wand".

"Ah, but you don't want the Doctor held up by a locked door, do you?" goes the excuse in it's defnece. Well, don't write so many locked-doors into the scripts, then.


----------



## In Bloom (Apr 7, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> "Ah, but you don't want the Doctor held up by a locked door, do you?" goes the excuse in it's defnece. Well, don't write so many locked-doors into the scripts, then.


So you'd be happier if the massive corporation set up by a sinister alien conspiracy sent all its employees home at night and then left all the doors unlocked?  Would that make more sense to you? 

Anyway, I had a hard time seeing what the big deal was with those adipose critters.  I mean, if it only happens while you're taking the pills, surely you'd stop taking them long before it started to become a danger to your health.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 7, 2008)

In Bloom said:


> So you'd be happier if the massive corporation set up by a sinister alien conspiracy sent all its employees home at night and then left all the doors unlocked?  Would that make more sense to you?



Well, they had no trouble leaving the windows unlocked (openable windows on an air-conditioned office block?) despite the building being in "total lockdown" or whatever.


----------



## In Bloom (Apr 7, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Well, they had no trouble leaving the windows unlocked (openable windows on an air-conditioned office block?) despite the building being in "total lockdown" or whatever.


Deadlock sealed, hactually.


----------



## Detroit City (Apr 7, 2008)

moomoo said:


> I'm so excited I think I'll wee my knickers!
> 
> Looks ace from the trailers.................


great, we probably won't get them for 3 to 6 months


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 7, 2008)

In Bloom said:


> Deadlock sealed, hactually.



Well whatever it was. Either way - not very efficiantly if someone can get round it just by opening a window.


----------



## cybertect (Apr 7, 2008)

http://www.gallifreyone.com/news.php

*Richard Dawkins in Doctor Who*



> Professor Richard Dawkins, the celebrated biologist and writer, is to appear as himself later in the current series of Doctor Who. Executive Producer Russell T Davies made the announcement in an interview with the Independent on Sunday. He said the show's crew were delighted to see Dawkins on set: "People were falling at his feet ... We've had Kylie Minogue on that set, but it was Dawkins people were worshipping."
> 
> Dawkins is the author of many best-selling non-fiction works, from The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker to The God Delusion, and is a powerful communicator of both Darwin's evolutionary theory and the merits of atheism.
> 
> He holds the Charles Simonyi Chair for the Public Understanding of Science at the University of Oxford, and is a Fellow of the Royal Society, though he is perhaps equally well known amongst some Doctor Who fans as the husband of Lalla Ward, who played former companion Romana! He was also a close friend of former script editor Douglas Adams, to whom he dedicated The God Delusion.



Could be very entertaining or a car crash...


----------



## Nemo (Apr 7, 2008)

cybertect said:


> http://www.gallifreyone.com/news.php
> 
> *Richard Dawkins in Doctor Who*
> 
> ...


Bets now on how long it takes Dwyer to come on here and pan his performance.


----------



## cybertect (Apr 7, 2008)

cybertect said:


> Could be very entertaining or a car crash...



I guess I should also have allowed for the option of an entertaining car crash


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 7, 2008)

"Foolish children, the Doctor doesn't really exist. He's just an actor. I however have genuine scientific credentials, and will defeat the alien menace by demonstrating that they are simply men in rubber suits. Enjoy the show."


----------



## Wilf (Apr 8, 2008)

cybertect said:


> http://www.gallifreyone.com/news.php
> 
> *Richard Dawkins in Doctor Who*
> 
> ...



Imagines 'in jokes' about the Spaghetti Monster


----------



## Detroit City (Apr 8, 2008)

4thwrite said:


> Imagines 'in jokes' about the Spaghetti Monster



not half as bad as the linginue monster with clam sauce


----------



## emanymton (Apr 8, 2008)

In Bloom said:


> Anyway, I had a hard time seeing what the big deal was with those adipose critters.  I mean, if it only happens while you're taking the pills, surely you'd stop taking them long before it started to become a danger to your health.



Yeah I can’t see what was so bad about the villains plan to be honest, if the Doctor and Donna hadn’t started poking around no one would have got hurt and an alien species would have been able to save itself. Ok it was dishonest and manipulative but not really a threat to anyone. Basically 2 people are dead because of Donna!

Overall I thought it was a poor episode not sure if I will be bothering with this series, blink was the only good episode in the last one (I hated that family one) and interestingly it hardly had the Doctor in it.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 8, 2008)

emanymton said:


> Yeah I can’t see what was so bad about the villains plan to be honest, if the Doctor and Donna hadn’t started poking around no one would have got hurt and an alien species would have been able to save itself. Ok it was dishonest and manipulative but not really a threat to anyone.



Exactly. When you look at it that way, what was the _point_ of this story? There _was no threat_ to the Earth. The whole thing was a huge irrelevance.

I fear this story sets the tone for the series that's to come over the next few weeks.


----------



## ethel (Apr 8, 2008)

what!? human nature is one of the best who stories ever!


----------



## llantwit (Apr 8, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Exactly. When you look at it that way, what was the _point_ of this story? There _was no threat_ to the Earth. The whole thing was a huge irrelevance.
> 
> I fear this story sets the tone for the series that's to come over the next few weeks.



Weren't yous lot paying attention?! The plan of the intergallactic supernanny was to turn millions of people into those adi-wotsits leaving them completely obliterated. The one at a time thing was just the first step. Some people.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 8, 2008)

llantwit said:


> Weren't yous lot paying attention?! The plan of the intergallactic supernanny was to turn millions of people into those adi-wotsits leaving them completely obliterated. The one at a time thing was just the first step. Some people.



Oh yeah - I forgot. Just shows what a memorable, nail-biter of a piece of drama that episode was.


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 8, 2008)

emanymton said:


> Yeah I can’t see what was so bad about the villains plan to be honest, if the Doctor and Donna hadn’t started poking around no one would have got hurt and an alien species would have been able to save itself. Ok it was dishonest and manipulative but not really a threat to anyone. Basically 2 people are dead because of Donna!


Maybe the pills were addictive... or maybe the Matron whatsherface was planning to do a full-scale conversion when the Adipose pills had been distributed more widely, killing off all the people. Could've been made clearer, though...


----------



## scifisam (Apr 8, 2008)

I really enjoyed that! Tennant was fine - though his hair is threatening to follow the adiposes' lead and run away to make a life of its own. Donna, I thought, was a really good character; very, very ordinary but tenacious, looking for meaning in life, and not fancying the doctor because he's a long streak of piss.  (I quite like him myself, though. Him and Mulder, the only men for me!).

The bit where they were talking through the windows made me laugh out loud.

It's still one of the few shows that my daughter and I can both enjoy.


----------



## In Bloom (Apr 8, 2008)

llantwit said:


> Weren't yous lot paying attention?! The plan of the intergallactic supernanny was to turn millions of people into those adi-wotsits leaving them completely obliterated. The one at a time thing was just the first step. Some people.


Did it ever explicitly say that though?  It might have been very vaguely implied, but that's about it.

In fact the Doctor's only actual objection to the whole affair seemed to be that it was against the "Shadow Proclaimation"


----------



## cybertect (Apr 8, 2008)

llantwit said:


> Weren't yous lot paying attention?! The plan of the intergallactic supernanny was to turn millions of people into those adi-wotsits leaving them completely obliterated. The one at a time thing was just the first step. Some people.



Must admit I had did some head scratching over the plot point.

I was under the impression that the Adipose normally only converted fatty tissue into baby Adipose and that was the original plan.

The 'total conversion' done in a hurry was because the Doctor had found them out and wasn't the best way for it to be done because other tissues (hair and bone were mentioned IIRC) had to be 'digested' afterward to get rid of them.

The biggest objections I could find present in the plot find was that 

- Earth is a Level 5 planet.
- the people being sold the pills weren't aware of what they were taking (largely implied).


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 8, 2008)

It was obviously unsafe because that woman got entirely dismantled and made into Adipose babies. The fact they had a response team complete with pink flashing lights suggests she wasn't the first that had happened to.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 9, 2008)

cybertect said:


> Must admit I had did some head scratching over the plot point.
> 
> I was under the impression that the Adipose normally only converted fatty tissue into baby Adipose and that was the original plan.
> 
> ...


  I'm assuming you know you think _way_ too much about this?


----------



## wishface (Apr 9, 2008)

They should have gotten Gillian Mckeith to play the nanny, then she could have sonically sniffed some timelord shit!


----------



## cybertect (Apr 9, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm assuming you know you think _way_ too much about this?



Absolutely


----------



## phildwyer (Apr 9, 2008)

Nemo said:


> Bets now on how long it takes Dwyer to come on here and pan his performance.



Funnily enough, "Doctor Who" is filmed on location about fifty yards away from my local pub. Perhaps I should go round to the set and give him a piece of my mind.


----------



## Reno (Apr 9, 2008)

I was made to sit through the Christmas episode and tried to watch the first episode of this series, but I fell asleep. I just don't understand what anybody older than 12 gets out of it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 9, 2008)

If, as is beginning to be hinted in some print media, the "momentous" event at the end of this series is Tennant leaving, who would you have as the new Doctor?

How about Jarvis Cocker?  I dunno if he can act, but he has a good look for a Doctor.


----------



## Detroit City (Apr 9, 2008)

who's his bitch this season?  i hope its not that worthless one from last season


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 9, 2008)

We prefer to say _Assistant_.

But do keep up, the thread has covered that ground; it's Donna, the lass from two Christmases ago.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 9, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> If, as is beginning to be hinted in some print media, the "momentous" event at the end of this series is Tennant leaving, who would you have as the new Doctor?
> 
> How about Jarvis Cocker?  I dunno if he can act, but he has a good look for a Doctor.



i love jarvis - and i'm sure he can act... but tennant's character has nicked his look already.

gene hunt for a real sea change as doctor.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 9, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> i love jarvis - and i'm sure he can act... but tennant's character has nicked his look already.


Do you think so?  

Oh, OK.  Bobby Carlisle, then.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 10, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> If, as is beginning to be hinted in some print media, the "momentous" event at the end of this series is Tennant leaving, who would you have as the new Doctor?



Dylan Moran in a persona similar to his "black books" one.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 10, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> If, as is beginning to be hinted in some print media, the "momentous" event at the end of this series is Tennant leaving, who would you have as the new Doctor?



Don Warrington would be cool.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 10, 2008)

Will Self foar Doktor!


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 10, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Dylan Moran in a persona similar to his "black books" one.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 10, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> If, as is beginning to be hinted in some print media, the "momentous" event at the end of this series is Tennant leaving, who would you have as the new Doctor?



Richard E Grant.


----------



## In Bloom (Apr 10, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> It was obviously unsafe because that woman got entirely dismantled and made into Adipose babies. The fact they had a response team complete with pink flashing lights suggests she wasn't the first that had happened to.


That was deliberate.  Donna activated it early, so the woman spotted it, the company knew this had happened and killed her to eliminate the witness.


----------



## In Bloom (Apr 10, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm assuming you know you think _way_ too much about this?


Overthinking is what sci-fi is for


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 10, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> If, as is beginning to be hinted in some print media, the "momentous" event at the end of this series is Tennant leaving, who would you have as the new Doctor?
> 
> How about Jarvis Cocker?  I dunno if he can act, but he has a good look for a Doctor.


Clearly the next Doctor should be Dylan Moran.  Or Idris Elba. Or Paddy Considine. They'll probably go with Rhys bloody Ifans, though, or someone like that.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 10, 2008)

Paddy Considine wouldn't do it - and nor should he.  Unless you want another eccleston disappearing act, you're asking an actor to put the rest of their career on hold for over a year - no time to do anything else.

even more worryingly - for the rest of your career you'll be 'the bloke from Doctor Who' or 'The eleventh doctor' or whatever...  that kind of typecasting can be death to your career...  or at the very least, highly annoying.  

It's a job for an actor on their way down in terms of fame and hollywood and things, or who has settled for a certain rent-paying status quo in their career (the 'big time'/ ' serious arty stuff' is never going to happen).  Or a Doctor Who nut.


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 10, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> Paddy Considine wouldn't do it - and nor should he.  Unless you want another eccleston disappearing act, you're asking an actor to put the rest of their career on hold for over a year - no time to do anything else.
> 
> even more worryingly - for the rest of your career you'll be 'the bloke from Doctor Who' or 'The eleventh doctor' or whatever...  that kind of typecasting can be death to your career...  or at the very least, highly annoying.
> 
> It's a job for an actor on their way down in terms of fame and hollywood and things, or who has settled for a certain rent-paying status quo in their career (the 'big time'/ ' serious arty stuff' is never going to happen).  Or a Doctor Who nut.


Oh, I know - apart from anything else, Considine hates sci-fi! But he'd be _fucking ace_ as an Eccleston-ish Doctor; I'm thinking of that scene in Dead Man's Shoes where he psyches out the local boss just by _talking really softly at him_.

But I'd argue that, in the wake of Tennant, it's probably also a job for an up-and-comer. Consider how well-known Tennant was before Who, and how well-known he is now. Given the show's profile these days, it's a genuine career-maker. Tennant's sticking around longer than most would because he's a Who nut, but I could see an actor stepping in for two or three years and then buggering off.


----------



## veracity (Apr 10, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Will Self foar Doktor!



Gosh, yes!


*swoon*


----------



## Melinda (Apr 10, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> who's his bitch this season?  i hope its not that worthless one from last season


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 10, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> Idris Elba.



Total WIN!


----------



## moomoo (Apr 10, 2008)

DC, can't you watch it on BBC iplayer?


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 10, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> Oh, I know - apart from anything else, Considine hates sci-fi! But he'd be _fucking ace_ as an Eccleston-ish Doctor; I'm thinking of that scene in Dead Man's Shoes where he psyches out the local boss just by _talking really softly at him_.
> 
> But I'd argue that, in the wake of Tennant, it's probably also a job for an up-and-comer. Consider how well-known Tennant was before Who, and how well-known he is now. Given the show's profile these days, it's a genuine career-maker. Tennant's sticking around longer than most would because he's a Who nut, but I could see an actor stepping in for two or three years and then buggering off.


Tennant wasn't an unknown - top of his game in theatre for best part of ten years and was doing top, top brit tv (Blackpool, Cassanova).

I wouldn't want a real newcomer... inexperienced actors don't tend to have the right presence... plus, i'd really like an older doctor this time (forties or older) to avoid some of the soap operaish lovey dovey stuff.  

I still reckon Gene Hunt, ftw.


----------



## fogbat (Apr 10, 2008)

phildwyer said:


> Funnily enough, "Doctor Who" is filmed on location about fifty yards away from my local pub. Perhaps I should go round to the set and give him a piece of my mind.



That's not the Heathcock, is it?


----------



## Jenerys (Apr 10, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> Clearly the next Doctor should be Dylan Moran.  Or Idris Elba. Or Paddy Considine. They'll probably go with Rhys bloody Ifans, though, or someone like that.



Oh yes,  please let it be Idris Elba 

*swoons*
*recovers*
*swoons again*


----------



## belboid (Apr 10, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Dylan Moran in a persona similar to his "black books" one.



damned right


----------



## Balbi (Apr 10, 2008)

belboid said:


> damned right



"What did you order?"

"er....half a lager"

"I got you ..... Creme de menthe"


----------



## belboid (Apr 10, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> Or Idris Elba.


good alternative!


----------



## belboid (Apr 10, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Richard E Grant.



fook right off!


----------



## belboid (Apr 10, 2008)

Balbi said:


> "What did you order?"
> 
> "er....half a lager"
> 
> "I got you ..... Creme de menthe"



"sonic what?  can i drink it?"


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 10, 2008)

belboid said:


> damned right



I've always thought Dylan's "Bernard Black" charecter would make a great Dr Who!  I can just imagine him in his long shabby black coat, pottering around the TARDIS console with discarded beer cans and cigarette ends all over the place as he blearily (and grumpily) tries to work out a solution to this week's crises which only _just_ succeeds.


----------



## In Bloom (Apr 10, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> I've always thought Dylan's "Bernard Black" charecter would make a great Dr Who!  I can just imagine him in his long shabby black coat, pottering around the TARDIS console with discarded beer cans and cigarette ends all over the place as he blearily (and grumpily) tries to work out a solution to this week's crises which only _just_ succeeds.


 

Never going to happen, what with the the family orientated nature of the show (a hero? Smoking? Outrageous!), but it'd be brilliant nonetheless.


----------



## belboid (Apr 10, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> I've always thought Dylan's "Bernard Black" charecter would make a great Dr Who!  I can just imagine him in his long shabby black coat, pottering around the TARDIS console with discarded beer cans and cigarette ends all over the place as he blearily (and grumpily) tries to work out a solution to this week's crises which only _just_ succeeds.



it'd probably go more Hong Kong Phooey, with his not so drunken assistant actually solving all the problems and having to drag the Doctor away


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 10, 2008)

belboid said:


> fook right off!


Too right, Grant was absolute shit in that web cartoon they did. Part of the problem being that having grown up in South Africa, he had no idea what Doctor Who was.


----------



## wishface (Apr 11, 2008)

I had read that after this season they will give it a rest for a while doing only a few specials instead of another series.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 11, 2008)

wishface said:


> I had read that after this season they will give it a rest for a while doing only a few specials instead of another series.



That's correct. It's taking a break in 2009 and I think it really needs it. When it returns, I hope it has a revamped set of production values and some new ideas, themes and plots instead of just repeating itlsef over and over again.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 11, 2008)

I'd like to see alltogether less of the Doctor-Messiah and just have the crank who saves the day back


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 11, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd like to see alltogether less of the Doctor-Messiah and just have the crank who saves the day back



Indeed. All the Doctor-as-Jesus imagary is really starting to grate. If he's not healing the sick in _New Earth_, he's "having the word spread" in _Last of the Timelords _or ascending to heaven with the angels in _Voyage of the Damned_. It's really tedious now.

Is RTD and atheist? Because these stories just come across as christian allegories rather than anything else and I'm not sure if that was his intention or not.


----------



## wishface (Apr 11, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I'd like to see alltogether less of the Doctor-Messiah and just have the crank who saves the day back


i quite agree.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Apr 11, 2008)

My GF (who loves all of RTD's work) informs me that he is an atheist but he does seem to have a fascination with Christian imagery, music and mythology. I agree that the painting of the Doctor as "the lonely god" is beginning to wear thin.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 11, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Is RTD and atheist? Because these stories just come across as christian allegories rather than anything else and I'm not sure if that was his intention or not.


I dunno, but Dickie Dawkins is going to be in this series.  As himself.  True.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 11, 2008)

I wonder if they'll be a 'large hadron collider accidentaly opens up rift in space time letting nasty monsters loose on earth' episode  I was reading an article about that thing and it's got doctor who written all over it; one of the scientists even said that because of quantum uncertainty (or something) any effect was technically possible, and that it might actually summon a load of giant man-eating dragons into existence when they turn it on


----------



## Vash (Apr 12, 2008)

Watching the 2nd episode.  So far its better than any of the episodes in the  2nd series but still terrible.  Very poor acting all the effort on customes was wasted as you couldn't believe that's Pompey for 2 seconds.  Some Rome/300 style acting would have been better.

Geeky Points

'Theres something on your back' is meant to be an important phrase in the new series.

The Master mentioned the Medusa Casade last series. 

Shes returning probably refers to Rose.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 12, 2008)

This episodes alright. Much better than the first one, though thats not saying much now is it really.


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 12, 2008)

"You'd better hurry up, Rocky 4's on his way"


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 12, 2008)

Vash said:


> Very poor acting all the effort on customes was wasted as you couldn't believe that's Pompey for 2 seconds.


 
Yeah, it looks nothing like Portsmouth.


----------



## mrsfran (Apr 12, 2008)

elevendayempire - good call on Paddy Considine. He'd be great.


----------



## Vash (Apr 12, 2008)

He went back and saved them too, Bollocks.  Was Tate pregnant when this was filmed?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 12, 2008)

Meh, crappy emo ending.


----------



## 1927 (Apr 12, 2008)

missfran said:


> Yeah, it looks nothing like Portsmouth.



I was going to say that, but resisted on the grounds I would get called a grammar fascist or somesuch!


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 12, 2008)

rubbish , again


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 12, 2008)

Vash said:


> He went back and saved them too, Bollocks.  Was Tate pregnant when this was filmed?



i dunno - she looks a bit odd in that frock, and it shouldbe flattering to someone of her shape.

but she hasn't go a baby now... and she would have...

anyway - too twatted to watch it properly - when's it repeated? don't say iplayer - no intermeweb at home currently.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 12, 2008)

much better episode.

Cant stand Tate when she starts shouting though.


----------



## moomoo (Apr 12, 2008)

Vash said:


> He went back and saved them too, Bollocks.



That bit brought a tear to my eye.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 12, 2008)

Yeah it was good. Admittedly the moral dilemma was nothing compared to the ever so troubling 'should I prevent the Daleks from ever existing' crisis of the Tom Baker era.*





*note sarcasm


----------



## Error Gorilla (Apr 12, 2008)

Two episodes in and both have been quite ropey eh? I mean, quite apart from the dodgy acting - the young girl was the worst and Tate is back to her shouty old self and Peter Capaldi criminally underused - the script made my hand inverse into a claw. I know the TARDIS translates for us but were Pompeians prone to talking in the manner of a family readying themselves for a trip to Bluewater? Oh well, the portable will be dragged from under the bed next Saturday evening for another outing.


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 12, 2008)

That was awful. Donna is just so bland apart from when she gets shouty and then you wish she'd go back to bland. 

Apart from her I couldn't stop thinking of Life of Brian.


----------



## Nemo (Apr 12, 2008)

The episode was okay imo (better than the last one anyway). Did wonder why they felt the need to tack on that 'six months later' thing though; added nothing.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 12, 2008)

repeated?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 12, 2008)

Nemo said:


> Did wonder why they felt the need to tack on that 'six months later' thing though; added nothing.



Perhaps to show the start of a cult of "The Doctor"?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 12, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> repeated?



BBC3 tomorrow at 8.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 12, 2008)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> BBC3 tomorrow at 8.



thank you!


----------



## wishface (Apr 12, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Meh, crappy emo ending.


yep, same overwrought nonsense.

Please can we have the doctor back. give him his jellybabies.

Still on balance a vastly better episode than last week's bag of balls, even if it was a largely confused attempt to tell a painfully obvious story.

PS I don't care about Rose. That's not a metaplot.


----------



## wishface (Apr 12, 2008)

gnoriac said:


> That was awful. Donna is just so bland apart from when she gets shouty and then you wish she'd go back to bland.
> 
> Apart from her I couldn't stop thinking of Life of Brian.


If she is going to be the doctor's 'conscience' then this is going to be a very painful season.


----------



## Superape (Apr 12, 2008)

This series is treading a very fine line between sillyness & great.


----------



## Jonti (Apr 12, 2008)

I do get a little tired of seeing the whites of Tennant's eyes, but yeah, it was good. 

The idea that one can feel the future shifting in response to present events was nicely played out. And, I reckon, it hit the spot with the intended audience of young teens and preteens.  

As for the emo stuff, well, there's a lot of crazy emo stuff about these days. It's just part of the world of the children. And it helped throw the Doctor's essential un-humanity into (uncharacteristically) sharp relief.


----------



## cesare (Apr 12, 2008)

I preferred the adipose babies

Trying to appeal to all audiences, someone's got summat good to say about heh, but overall, wtf and why watch it


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2008)

Entertaining tonight. Donna wavered between irritating and capable. Just glad it weren't another earth present-day one really.


----------



## Detroit City (Apr 13, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Entertaining tonight. Donna wavered between irritating and capable. Just glad it weren't another earth present-day one really.



cool....i have something to look forward to in 3 or 4 months


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 13, 2008)

Good story, some of the acting was a bit dodgy though. Still not sure about Tate tbh, thought it's good to see they're going in a (slightly) different direction with the whole assistant thing this series. Why can't the doctor have two or three companions though, like there were in some of the old series? That'd save them having to retread the whole ambiguous quasi-romance thing over and over again...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2008)

I'm not sure if I'm loving the new series as good Who or just loving it because its not godawful Torchwood. Lets face it Torchwood isn't even enjoyably awful it's just total shit carried on the beefcake back of Captain Jack. He's good, but he aint no Doctor.

Jacks supporting cast are all proper shit too


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 13, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm not sure if I'm loving the new series as good Who or just loving it because its not godawful Torchwood. Lets face it Torchwood isn't even enjoyably awful it's just total shit carried on the beefcake back of Captain Jack. He's good, but he aint no Doctor.
> 
> Jacks supporting cast are all proper shit too



Jack was best as the Doctor's campy sidekick, he hasn't got enough gravitarse to have his own series IMHO.

But Gwen Cooper is still teh fit, acting skills or lack of notwithstanding


----------



## wishface (Apr 13, 2008)

Jonti said:


> I do get a little tired of seeing the whites of Tennant's eyes, but yeah, it was good.
> 
> The idea that one can feel the future shifting in response to present events was nicely played out. And, I reckon, it hit the spot with the intended audience of young teens and preteens.
> 
> As for the emo stuff, well, there's a lot of crazy emo stuff about these days. It's just part of the world of the children. And it helped throw the Doctor's essential un-humanity into (uncharacteristically) sharp relief.


what un humanity?

Destroy the world or destroy Pompeii. Either way Pompeii dies, so for me it's a shallow storyline.


----------



## wishface (Apr 13, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Entertaining tonight. Donna wavered between irritating and capable. Just glad it weren't another earth present-day one really.


Ep2 usually seems to involve going back in time afaic remember: the globe, victorian london...


----------



## Jonti (Apr 13, 2008)

wishface said:


> what un humanity?
> 
> Destroy the world or destroy Pompeii. Either way Pompeii dies, so for me it's a shallow storyline.


Oh, quite.

I meant the Doctor wasn't bothered* to pluck the Roman family to safety.  It was Tate that bothered him to do it.

* he didn't look bothered, heh!


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 13, 2008)

Nemo said:


> The episode was okay imo (better than the last one anyway). Did wonder why they felt the need to tack on that 'six months later' thing though; added nothing.



A bit underwhelmed by tonight's ep. I think the six months later thing might have dropped a few clues about what's going to happen later in the series. Didn't Capaldi's character mention Egypt, which was also referenced by Donna last week?


----------



## wishface (Apr 13, 2008)

Jonti said:


> Oh, quite.
> 
> I meant the Doctor wasn't bothered* to pluck the Roman family to safety.  It was Tate that bothered him to do it.
> 
> * he didn't look bothered, heh!


to be fair, neither was I. It was just emotional drama deliberately shoehorned in. Kind of out opf place really; they seem to want to have emo drama and to turn the show into a kids show. There was never this sort of rubbish in the old days. Even Tom Baker deliberating over killing the Daleks was never so mawkish, and wasn't underscored by over the top soundtracks.

Why bother saving a bunch of Roman chavs!


----------



## wishface (Apr 13, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> A bit underwhelmed by tonight's ep. I think the six months later thing might have dropped a few clues about what's going to happen later in the series. Didn't Capaldi's character mention Egypt, which was also referenced by Donna last week?


that statement about something being on her back is said to be significant as well. Sounds like a Harry Hill TV moment of the week.


----------



## Miss Peabody (Apr 13, 2008)

wishface said:


> that statement about something being on her back is said to be significant as well. Sounds like a Harry Hill TV moment of the week.



And last week Donna said something about all the bees going missing. Wonder if that is going to be relevant too


----------



## Vash (Apr 13, 2008)

I'd prefer it if the BBC put on the Battlestar Galactica remake instead of making sub Power Rangers shite like this.  American Sci-fi shows like Pushing Daisies and Heroes are (sorry if this sounds trollish) far superior.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 13, 2008)

So you'd rather see the same thing on 2 different channels than 2 different things?   Not much I can say about that.

I like the way they argue.


----------



## _angel_ (Apr 13, 2008)

Vash said:


> I'd prefer it if the BBC put on the Battlestar Galactica remake instead of making sub Power Rangers shite like this.  American Sci-fi shows like* Pushing Daisies *and Heroes are (sorry if this sounds trollish) far superior.




You're joking, that had all the emotional depth and plotting of the teletubbies!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 13, 2008)

BSG is great, but entirely unleavened by even a shred of humor.

And Tigh is so cheesy.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 13, 2008)

Surely you forget the episode 'Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down', which was _almost_ whimsical in places.


----------



## wishface (Apr 13, 2008)

Vash said:


> I'd prefer it if the BBC put on the Battlestar Galactica remake instead of making sub Power Rangers shite like this.  American Sci-fi shows like Pushing Daisies and Heroes are (sorry if this sounds trollish) far superior.


me too; it's criminal how Heroes was overlooked for so long and how BSG has been totally ignored.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 13, 2008)

Heroes series two starts later this month on BBC, should run until Season Three goes U.S


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 13, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Heroes series two starts later this month on BBC, should run until Season Three goes U.S



ooh - cool.

but it's a bit unfair to compare dr who with heroes (never seen bsg - don't like thing set in space).  The ensemble cast for heroes means that the liklihood of returning to formulaic storytelling is far less.  Plus - i see heroes lasting five seasons, tops.  doctor who can't just throw out the formulae and start from scratch - if they did, i bet RTD and moffat et al would produce something easily comparable.  

Writing something with so many obsessive fans who will pull you up if you start fucking with the laws of the cannon or the decades-old complex internal logic - plus, unlike heroes - trying to appeal to small kids as well as teens and adults - must be really hard.  In fact, i reckon that's why 'blink' and the 'family of blood' stories were so good - because they threw out the 'Whodolatry'.


----------



## innit (Apr 13, 2008)

^^ very good points very well made.

There's no point comparing with adult programmes, and the writers must feel like they're damned whatever they do


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 13, 2008)

They should've been given a later timeslot, im sure the show would be much better then.


----------



## innit (Apr 13, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> They should've been given a later timeslot, im sure the show would be much better then.



Yes, just like Torchwood


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 13, 2008)

haha..


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 13, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> They should've been given a later timeslot, im sure the show would be much better then.



but it is for kids - it always has been.


----------



## innit (Apr 13, 2008)

wishface said:


> Ep2 usually seems to involve going back in time afaic remember: the globe, victorian london...



This is the thing which annoys me a little bit - the structure of the series has become a bit formulaic - ie

Episode 1 - "getting to know you"  set up of new Dr / assistant character, usually got quite a fun / ludicrous storyline

Ep 2 - take the assistant to some exotic location or time to get them into the time travel thing, usually the assistant will save the day or do something super brave to show what a strong woman she really is

few self-contained episodes

then a few which link together in some way to build up towards the finale (which also writes out doctor or assistant)


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 13, 2008)

Russel T.davies was complaining that the early timeslot was restricting the storylines they could use though.


----------



## wishface (Apr 13, 2008)

yes, 45 minutes in the early evening really makes all the difference.


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 13, 2008)

innit said:


> This is the thing which annoys me a little bit - the structure of the series has become a bit formulaic - ie
> 
> Episode 1 - "getting to know you"  set up of new Dr / assistant character, usually got quite a fun / ludicrous storyline
> 
> ...


To be fair, though, Doctor Who isn't really aimed at the sort of people who watch it and pick out patterns in how it's made. It's made for kids. And the 8-year-olds who are picking the series up now were five when Christopher Eccleston was the Doctor, so they're not aware of the formula.


----------



## innit (Apr 13, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> To be fair, though, Doctor Who isn't really aimed at the sort of people who watch it and pick out patterns in how it's made. It's made for kids. And the 8-year-olds who are picking the series up now were five when Christopher Eccleston was the Doctor, so they're not aware of the formula.



It's made for families, which have adults in as well as children


----------



## Balbi (Apr 13, 2008)

innit said:


> It's made for families, which have adults in as well as children



the jokes are for us - the actions for both them and us 

"there's lovely"


----------



## editor (Apr 13, 2008)

The CGI stuff was pretty damn impressive, mind.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 13, 2008)

editor said:


> The CGI stuff was pretty damn impressive, mind.



Apocalpytic roman empire ftw


----------



## Iguana (Apr 13, 2008)

Vash said:


> Geeky Points
> 
> 'Theres something on your back' is meant to be an important phrase in the new series.
> 
> ...



There has been a planet that's missing in each episode.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 13, 2008)

Iguana said:


> There has been a planet that's missing in each episode.



So there has, with no concrete explanation as to why it's missing. Not unlike Gallifrey


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 14, 2008)

Vash said:


> I'd prefer it if the BBC put on the Battlestar Galactica remake instead of making sub Power Rangers shite like this.  American Sci-fi shows like Pushing Daisies and Heroes are (sorry if this sounds trollish) far superior.



You think? I've only seen the first ep of Pushing Daisies but thought it was a bit twee and tried far too hard to be kooky. Heroes was occasionally excellent but mediocre most of the time, and season two has had a critical drubbing. When Who's on form it easily pisses on both from the evidence I've seen.


----------



## andy2002 (Apr 14, 2008)

Iguana said:


> There has been a planet that's missing in each episode.



The Doctor's mentioned the Shadow Proclamation in both episodes so far too.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 14, 2008)

innit said:


> This is the thing which annoys me a little bit - the structure of the series has become a bit formulaic - ie
> 
> Episode 1 - "getting to know you"  set up of new Dr / assistant character, usually got quite a fun / ludicrous storyline
> 
> ...



Agreed. It's dull, formulaic and predictable. Maybe for once they could go two consecutive seasons without a change in one of the lead casts, too.  

How long this turgid, repetitive format can remain as dumbfoundingly popular as it has been is open to question. I predict a backlash pretty soon.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 14, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Russel T.davies was complaining that the early timeslot was restricting the storylines they could use though.



A point I'd have more sympathy with if he hadn't been restricting the type of storylines they could use _himself_ for the last four years. 

I can't fathom the man out anymore. Really, I can't.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 14, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> To be fair, though, Doctor Who isn't really aimed at the sort of people who watch it and pick out patterns in how it's made. It's made for kids. And the 8-year-olds who are picking the series up now were five when Christopher Eccleston was the Doctor, so they're not aware of the formula.



The show was made for kids when it first started back in the 60s, yet didn't seem to aim for the dumbest among them as it's target audience. look at the rich, varied storylines it had durting the Hartnell era (forget the poor special effects, sets, etc for a minute and look at the _concepts_ and _stories_ they relied on).


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 14, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> A point I'd have more sympathy with if he hadn't been restricting the type of storylines they could use _himself_ for the last four years.
> 
> I can't fathom the man out anymore. Really, I can't.



I can't either. I used to have respect for him but not these days. Its like they're just relying on good graphics too impress us with, totally the opposite of what the show used to be.


----------



## Thundermonkey (Apr 14, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Its like they're just relying on good graphics too impress us with.



The graphics on saturday's episode were really good, my youngest decided to leave the room twice.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 14, 2008)

Yeah but that's exactly my point. I prefer the focus to be on the actual story. Maybe if it was then Russell would realize how much better it could be.


----------



## editor (Apr 14, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> How long this turgid, repetitive format can remain as dumbfoundingly popular as it has been is open to question.


It's just good Saturday early evening family entertainment in my book. It's not supposed to be some sort of deep offering for TV buffs, but I enjoy it as a fun program to watch with my dinner. 

We're not exactly spoilt or choice when it comes to original programming around that time, unless you want the Generation Game back.


----------



## Thundermonkey (Apr 14, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Yeah but that's exactly my point. I prefer the focus to be on the actual story.



I agree with you, but kids nowadays associate bad graphics with bad programmes. I remember the original Daleks in b/w, didn't need good graphics then to scare me.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 14, 2008)

Yeah i know that, he's just trying to appeal to kids, bloody annoying though.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 14, 2008)

editor said:


> It's just good Saturday early evening family entertainment in my book. It's not supposed to be some sort of deep offering for TV buffs, but I enjoy it as a fun program to watch with my dinner.



Innit, it's a fun show for the family not Citizen bloody Kane!


----------



## Dravinian (Apr 14, 2008)

I am boycotting it because it has got Catherine Tate in it.

Damn shame really cause I was hoping more people would, can't stand that unfunny bitch.  I was really hoping their viewing figures would plummet and they would be forced to drop her and bring in someone else.

It seems that hasn't happened, so I will just have to wait til they remove her naturally.

Hoping Tennant doesn't leave at the same time, I think he has been a superb Doctor, I like his darker nature hidden just below a reasonably funny persona.


----------



## Kenny Vermouth (Apr 14, 2008)

Dr Who is a cunt.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 14, 2008)

I take editor and belushi's point about it being family entertainment; I've no issue with that. But it used to manage to be _both_ family entertainment _and_ compelling drama with interesting stories. Nowadays it's just another component of "the decade that intelligence forgot" and gives a good impression of aiming squarly at the Lowest Common Denominator bracket.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 14, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> I take editor and belushi's point about it being family entertainment; I've no issue with that. But it used to manage to be _both_ family enetertainment _and_ compelling drama with interesting stories. Nowadays it's just another componenet of "the decade that intelligence forgot" and gives a good impression of aiming squarly at the Lowest Common Denominator bracket.



Couldn't have said it better myself.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 14, 2008)

Dravinian said:


> I am boycotting it because it has got Catherine Tate in it... can't stand that unfunny bitch



Nice 






Why isn't it available to download on iplayer yet?


----------



## Balbi (Apr 14, 2008)

There's just been an advert for it on BBCIplayer on 5 live bees


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 14, 2008)

Balbi said:


> There's just been an advert for it on BBCIplayer on 5 live bees



There may well have been, you can stream it atm, but it's not available to download


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 14, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Couldn't have said it better myself.



The sad thing is that it could be so much more. With today's technology, there's no reason why it can't have both great effects and great stories. To be fair, I think the first of the new run (the Christopher Ecclsetone season) managed that, mostly. The first of the christmas specials (_The Christmas Invasion_) was pretty good too. It's the last couple of seasons and specials that have just gotten silly and repetitive, like it's stuck in some sort of rut.


----------



## MikeMcc (Apr 14, 2008)

At the rate this series is going I would be surprised if the Bertie Bassett monster turns up again.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 14, 2008)

A happiness patrol themed episode would be awesome.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 14, 2008)

editor said:


> It's just good Saturday early evening family entertainment in my book. It's not supposed to be some sort of deep offering for TV buffs, but I enjoy it as a fun program to watch with my dinner.


True.  But it has been far better than the first two episodes in this series.  My kids (my barometer in these matters) have been underwhelmed thus far, and have even cast doubt on whether they'll want the first DVD of the series if episode 3 is as poor.  This is unheard of.  If I were RTD, I'd be paying attention.


----------



## belboid (Apr 14, 2008)

god, what a lot of whinging bastards.

a damned good episode that one, proper monsters, some decent acting (Tate was good, tenant did more than gurn), somewhat unexpected climax (or just before the climax bit, that he'd rescue Capaldi & co was obvious). As good as anything post TB.

It was always repetitive before as well, and most of the stories weren't any more intelligent, they just seemed it because we were 12 when we watched them!


----------



## 8den (Apr 14, 2008)

Dravinian said:


> I am boycotting it because it has got Catherine Tate in it.
> 
> Damn shame really cause I was hoping more people would, can't stand that unfunny bitch.  I was really hoping their viewing figures would plummet and they would be forced to drop her and bring in someone else.
> 
> It seems that hasn't happened, so I will just have to wait til they remove her naturally.



You do understand that they're not filmed live right? That episodes are in the can and finished weeks and weeks before they go on air? 

The time to complain about Tate was when she was announced, by the time it's goes to air you're just stuck with her.


----------



## poster342002 (Apr 14, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> My kids (my barometer in these matters) have been underwhelmed thus far, and have even cast doubt on whether they'll want the first DVD of the series if episode 3 is as poor.  This is unheard of.  If I were RTD, I'd be paying attention.



I think a corner may have been turned in terms of audience toleration of the increasingly childish "style" of the show. Ironically, this disaffection seems to be amongst children themselves!


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (Apr 14, 2008)

Dravinian said:


> I am boycotting it because it has got Catherine Tate in it.



I've been surprised by how little I've been annoyed by Tate this series, and on Saturday actually found myself chuckling at her. This from a vehement anti-Tate fan. I am so ashamed


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 14, 2008)

IT'S STILL NOT ON FUCKING IPLAYER


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 14, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> IT'S STILL NOT ON FUCKING IPLAYER



Yes it is. Although I had to browse the pages for a bit before I spotted it. It's next to 'doctor who confidential' on the saturday evening menu


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 15, 2008)

belboid said:


> god, what a lot of whinging bastards.
> 
> a damned good episode that one, proper monsters, some decent acting (Tate was good, tenant did more than gurn), somewhat unexpected climax (or just before the climax bit, that he'd rescue Capaldi & co was obvious). As good as anything post TB.
> 
> It was always repetitive before as well, and most of the stories weren't any more intelligent, they just seemed it because we were 12 when we watched them!


I'm only comparing with the Ecclescake/Tennants era, and in comparison with the first two series, episodes one and two have been rubbish.  Series three was patchy, although it had some of the best episodes so far.  But so far series four has thus far been dire.

The last episode was scrappy.  The jokes were old when Crackerjack used them, the dialogue was poor, and the high caliber guest actors squandered.  They had the use of the set of the series, Rome, which was visually stunning, and managed to make it look cheap and tacky.  And - importantly - they didn't hold the attention of my 8 and 12-year-olds, who were hitherto unshakable fans.

The CGI was good, though.


----------



## tangerinedream (Apr 18, 2008)

I don't all this 'I hate Catherine Tate' stuff. She was quite good in the last one, she's acting, playing a character, she's not being herself. It's not 'the Catherine Tate show in space' is it? She's not going to shout 'am I boverred?' 

_If you can suspend yr disbelief enough to enjoy the rather implausable plots of Dr Who, then surely you can muster enough imagination see beyond the real life actor playing one of the characters to the character themselves. _

Just a point loike. 

I thought the last one was quite good, the first one was pants. Last one was just the right mix of silly and mystery.


----------



## strung out (Apr 18, 2008)

yeah, last one was very decent i thought


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 19, 2008)

Finally got round to watching the Pompei episode, I thought it was great, just the right balance of sillyness and serious


----------



## Vash (Apr 19, 2008)

Tonites episode was similar to Irobot in places and the Doctor can mind meld now too.  Brains in there hands?  Pretty crap but the best episode so far.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 19, 2008)

Dude, that was the lad from the Henry van Staten episode of S.1 who had the weird brain thing done on the news station and then got left behind by the doctor. He's involved with the Sontarans? 

Tim McInnery got old


----------



## Vash (Apr 19, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Dude, that was the lad from the Henry van Staten episode of S.1 who had the weird brain thing done on the news station and then got left behind by the doctor. He's involved with the Sontarans?
> 
> Tim McInnery got old



Maybe the same actor playing a differnt part.  Oddly enough there was a rumour going round that the boy with thing in his head will turn iout to be Davros but that would be really shit.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 19, 2008)

I could see it being him with Rose and Martha being involved.

BRING BACK SALLY SPARROW.


----------



## Groucho (Apr 19, 2008)

An Ood revolution. 

'bout time there was another revolution in Dr Who. Anyone notice that the Dr did not save the day this time? The Ood revolution was well underway without the Dr's help and succeeded without his help. 

The Ood are a collective peaceful species incapable of violence. However, once enslaved they developed out of necessity a method of combat. And the slaves emancipated themselves through self activity.


----------



## _pH_ (Apr 19, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Tim McInnery got old



Thank you! Was trying to remember who the actor was playing the dude with the hairloss.....but missed the credits


----------



## Detroit City (Apr 19, 2008)

that XMas/Titanic episode sucked dick!


----------



## Groucho (Apr 19, 2008)

Looking forward to the long awaited return of the Sontarians.

Daleks - check
Cybermen - check
Sea Devils - 
Sontarians - next week


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 19, 2008)

Missed this episode, will have to watch it on bbc3 tmrw!


----------



## magneze (Apr 19, 2008)

Quite liked this weeks episode - miles better than last weeks. I wonder what happened to the bloke who got absorbed into the giant brain though ... the mind boggles ... !


----------



## moomoo (Apr 19, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> that XMas/Titanic episode sucked dick!



Is that a good thing or a bad thing? 

I liked tonights episode very much.


----------



## Detroit City (Apr 19, 2008)

hey don't give away the story lines....i only get to see them 3 or 4 months after you guys


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 19, 2008)

Saw a bit of doctor who confidential btw, and Catherine Tates acting was making me cringe and couldn't watch it for long. The story looks decent, though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 19, 2008)

Vash said:


> Oddly enough there was a rumour going round that the boy with thing in his head will turn iout to be Davros but that would be really shit.


No, that would be very good!  

I thought tonight's episode was the best so far, but still not very good.  They'd have got away with this, in my book, if we'd had this instead of the last two.


----------



## 8ball (Apr 19, 2008)

Brains in hands - what a load of cack!

Bring back Bertie Bassett!


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 19, 2008)

8ball said:


> Brains in hands - what a load of cack!


Balls in hands would've been far better.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 19, 2008)

Whats all this brains in hands rubbish??


----------



## Vash (Apr 19, 2008)

Couldn't help thinking of balls when I saw it.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 19, 2008)

I thought this was a very old school Who episode. I liked it.


----------



## wishface (Apr 19, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> No, that would be very good!
> 
> I thought tonight's episode was the best so far, but still not very good.  They'd have got away with this, in my book, if we'd had this instead of the last two.


I agree. And again with the scriptwirter beating us over the head with the moral message. Wow, and there was me thinking slavery was cool for cats. Thanks Dr Who!

FFS, just tell a good story, stop beating me to death with you moralising!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 19, 2008)

Oh, pretty good. Enough carping. That was a fair reboot of the Ood, considering how much less interesting they were in the Satan Pit/Impossible Planet two-parter. And Tate is becoming less grating.


----------



## tangerinedream (Apr 19, 2008)

Was reet that one. 2 out 3 ain't bad. It's all good.


----------



## Groucho (Apr 20, 2008)

wishface said:


> I agree. And again with the scriptwirter beating us over the head with the moral message. Wow, and there was me thinking slavery was cool for cats. Thanks Dr Who!
> 
> FFS, just tell a good story, stop beating me to death with you moralising!




except slavery is not often ended by revolutionary action by the slaves in most fiction. Mostly the moralising is paternalistic compassion. Whereas Dr Who presents a call for oppressed people everywhere to throw off their own shackles using violence if necessary in order to secure a free and peaceful future.


----------



## big eejit (Apr 20, 2008)

I liked all that stuff about the baldy chap and his dad and the father ood that he wanted to kill - oodipus complex or what!


----------



## Groucho (Apr 20, 2008)

and hair-loss anxiety is more scary for some old Dr Who fans than Daleks these days


----------



## MikeMcc (Apr 20, 2008)

big eejit said:


> I liked all that stuff about the baldy chap and his dad and the father ood that he wanted to kill - oodipus complex or what!


Oh dear! Bad pun night...


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 20, 2008)

I thought the Ood were excellent, it was just Donna that f**ked it. Dunno if it's just shouty-compassionate is a crap concept or whether Catherine Tate can't hack it.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 20, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> hey don't give away the story lines....i only get to see them 3 or 4 months after you guys



Torrents my friend, torrents


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 20, 2008)

Balbi said:


> BRING BACK SALLY SPARROW.



^This.


----------



## Detroit City (Apr 20, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Torrents my friend, torrents



quite


----------



## Iguana (Apr 20, 2008)

Vash said:


> Maybe the same actor playing a differnt part.  Oddly enough there was a rumour going round that the boy with thing in his head will turn iout to be Davros but that would be really shit.



The 1st episode he was in was set in 2012 so if this is the same character it should be 6 years before he met the Doctor and Rose.  Unless this episode is set in the near future.


----------



## liampreston (Apr 20, 2008)

I really didn't want to like Catherine Tate, open mind and all that, but she is starting to grow on me. I think she has been told to me more of a thorn in the side than any previous companion I can think of...I mean, we're going back to Tegan's time aren't we?

I liked the Ood episode last night, but am dreading next week  - how many "army across the city of CaerLlundain" can we suffer


----------



## belboid (Apr 20, 2008)

<ooh, what happened to the post I thought i was replying to, odd....>

Good episode till the end, then too overly moralistic, not even eight year olds need hitting over the head with a shovel to that extent to get the point.

Glad the PR lass didn't suddenly have a fit of conscience and turn all good tho


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 20, 2008)

gnoriac said:


> I thought the Ood were excellent, it was just Donna that f**ked it. Dunno if it's just shouty-compassionate is a crap concept or whether Catherine Tate can't hack it.



From what i saw on confidential(missed the episode) her acting made me cringe so badly i couldn't watch it for long. It doesn't feel as though she cares enough like Tennant does, which is hardly surprising since she admitted she was never a fan of the show before..


----------



## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

dp


----------



## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

I liked this week's one, I thought it was good.  Turned it round nicely that the Ood initially seemed sinister but turned out to be so peace loving. (or as we thought, basically a hippy choir  )


----------



## PacificOcean (Apr 20, 2008)

The Ood were brilliantly freaky.

The plot untaxing enough for Saturday teatime but scary enough for me to watch from behind the sofa.

I notice though that the BBFC have given this epsiode a '12' rating which means the BBC can't repeat it at teatime again, otherwise they face the wrath of OFCOM.


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 20, 2008)

That PR woman was quite fanciable, shame her brain got zapped.


----------



## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

the bad must be punished!


----------



## PacificOcean (Apr 20, 2008)

.


----------



## Iguana (Apr 20, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> From what i saw on confidential(missed the episode) her acting made me cringe so badly i couldn't watch it for long. It doesn't feel as though she cares enough like Tennant does, which is hardly surprising since she admitted she was never a fan of the show before..



Yeah, I'm not buying her character's emotional transition throughout the episode.  Either she's not that great an actor, she isn't trying enough or she's doing that thing where some actors in kids tv shows patronisingly overact.


----------



## Vash (Apr 20, 2008)

Iguana said:


> The 1st episode he was in was set in 2012 so if this is the same character it should be 6 years before he met the Doctor and Rose.  Unless this episode is set in the near future.



Maybe he travelled back in time?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 20, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Dude, that was the lad from the Henry van Staten episode of S.1 who had the weird brain thing done on the news station and then got left behind by the doctor. He's involved with the Sontarans?
> 
> *Tim McInnery got old*



And rather chubby (says a card carrying chubster)

Thought it was an alright episode - enjoyable and the slavery aspect may have been educational for younger kids - Catherine Tate is making quite a good companion I think but I don't find the character all that likeable tbh. Still I do like her better than Martha who just got on my nerves I'm afraid


----------



## Iguana (Apr 20, 2008)

Vash said:


> Maybe he travelled back in time?



Actually, I've just re-watched the trailer and I didn't see him.  He's also not listed on imdb for being in the next episode, I don't think it was him.


----------



## hektik (Apr 20, 2008)

this is the second episode where they mentioned the bees going missing.

also the second episode where the characters that the doctor saves end up worshipping him - the romans in the previous episode with their little shrine, and the ood this time saying that they will sing a song about him and pass it down to their children etc etc.


----------



## innit (Apr 20, 2008)

interesting, well spotted


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 20, 2008)

hektik said:


> this is the second episode where they mentioned the bees going missing.
> 
> also the second episode where the characters that the doctor saves end up worshipping him - the romans in the previous episode with their little shrine, and the ood this time saying that they will sing a song about him and pass it down to their children etc etc.


Yes, I noticed that.  Also, the Ood said at the end the Doctor's song would be coming to an end soon.  So, does this mean _this incarnation_ of the Doctor?  - it has been widely trailed that the last episode of this series will be momentous.  Or ... [ellipsis for drama] ... is this the end of the Doctor?  Some nerd will be along to tell us how many regenerations he's allowed.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 20, 2008)

innit said:


> the bad must be punished!


Even if they're hot? 



(   )


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 20, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Some nerd will be along to tell us how many regenerations he's allowed.


 
12, it was suggested in _Mawdryn Undead_ (5th Doctor).


----------



## strung out (Apr 20, 2008)

i shouldn't pay too much attention to how many regenerations the doctor is allowed, after all the master has had a fair few more lives than he should have been allowed (at least 4 too many). If it were to ever reach that point, i'm sure there would be a neat way for the doctor to have a few extra regenerations written into the script.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 20, 2008)

Indeed, but the Ood are like, you know, _Spiritual_.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 20, 2008)

strung_out said:


> i shouldn't pay too much attention to how many regenerations the doctor is allowed, after all the master has had a fair few more lives than he should have been allowed (at least 4 too many). .


 
Without wanting to out-nerd, the Master was given extra regenerations by the Time Lord Cahncil at some point Colin Baker-era. There aren't any Time Lords left to do that for the Doctor. 

But yes, spose it's not insurmountable. The Tardis seems to have ridiculous soopah-powers these days and could probably grant a new cycle at the drop of a hat.


----------



## Detroit City (Apr 20, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> But yes, spose it's not insurmountable. The Tardis seems to have ridiculous soopah-powers these days and could probably grant a new cycle at the drop of a hat.



yea, it's all gettin' a bit ridiculous now, innit?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 20, 2008)

I always thought your time lord got 13 lives, ie 12 regenerations, but that this was only because the time lord council would only allow a time lord to regenerate 12 times. With all the time lords now dead (???) the Doctor is a law unto himself...


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 20, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Without wanting to out-nerd, the Master was given extra regenerations by the Time Lord Cahncil at some point Colin Baker-era. There aren't any Time Lords left to do that for the Doctor.


Ah, there you have it.  If regenerations were granted/restricted by a Council that no longer exists, then they can't call the Doctor in if he takes more, can they?

I didn't realise it was a _bureaucratic_ thing. I thought it was like cats having 9 lives or something.  Just sort of accepted.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 20, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> yea, it's all gettin' a bit ridiculous now, innit?


  More ridiculous than a 900-year-old bloke travelling the Universe in an obsolete police phone box?


----------



## strung out (Apr 20, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Without wanting to out-nerd, the Master was given extra regenerations by the Time Lord Cahncil at some point Colin Baker-era. There aren't any Time Lords left to do that for the Doctor.
> 
> But yes, spose it's not insurmountable. The Tardis seems to have ridiculous soopah-powers these days and could probably grant a new cycle at the drop of a hat.



to out-nerd you once again, it wasn't confirmed whether the master actually received extra regenerations (it was offered to him in the five doctors), however it was confirmed in the last series that the time lords resurrected the master to help fight in the time war against the daleks.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 20, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah, there you have it. If regenerations were granted/restricted by a Council that no longer exists, then they can't call the Doctor in if he takes more, can they?
> 
> I didn't realise it was a _bureaucratic_ thing. I thought it was like cats having 9 lives or something. Just sort of accepted.


 

I'm pretty sure the master sustained his existence through means other than time-lord regenerations in later years. Didn't he nick some alien flame thing (i could well be getting confused with Who book stuff here).

His method of regeneration in the mgann one was far from orthodox. The suggestion from his last encounter with tennant is that he's found another nefarious methoid of prolonging his bad life


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 20, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> More ridiculous than a 900-year-old bloke travelling the Universe in an obsolete police phone box?



Even time-travelling phone boxes have internal logic you know


----------



## strung out (Apr 20, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm pretty sure the master sustained his existence through means other than time-lord regenerations in later years. Didn't he nick some alien flame thing (i could well be getting confused with Who book stuff here).
> 
> His method of regeneration in the mgann one was far from orthodox. The suggestion from his last encounter with tennant is that he's found another nefarious methoid of prolonging his bad life



yep, the majority of the extra lives the master received were gained through questionable methods (nicking tremas's body in the keeper of traken and eric roberts' body in the tv movie)


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 20, 2008)

strung_out said:


> to out-nerd you once again, it wasn't confirmed whether the master actually received extra regenerations (it was offered to him in the five doctors), however it was confirmed in the last series that the time lords resurrected the master to help fight in the time war against the daleks.


 
I relinquish the mantle with a mixture of awe and relief.


----------



## wishface (Apr 20, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm pretty sure the master sustained his existence through means other than time-lord regenerations in later years. Didn't he nick some alien flame thing (i could well be getting confused with Who book stuff here).
> 
> His method of regeneration in the mgann one was far from orthodox. The suggestion from his last encounter with tennant is that he's found another nefarious methoid of prolonging his bad life


The Keeper of Traken storyline I think.


----------



## strung out (Apr 20, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I relinquish the mantle with a mixture of awe and relief.



it comes from having an older brother who is officially one of the biggest Dr Who nerds out there... his job is pretty much as close as you can get to the series without working for the bbc now too.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 20, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Didn't he nick some alien flame thing (i could well be getting confused with Who book stuff here).


I've no idea, I don't remember any of this.  Before the Ecclescake era, I hadn't watched since Tom Baker.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 20, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I've no idea, I don't remember any of this. Before the Ecclescake era, I hadn't watched since Tom Baker.


 


Torrent ftw. Theres some cracking ones in the Sylvester Mcoy ers (imo, which is disagreed with by about everyone)


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 20, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Even time-travelling phone boxes have internal logic you know


Of course.  But Detroit was suggesting the internal logic was silly.  

It seemed perfectly logical to me, given the starting place.  A guy can regenerate.  Is it a set number?  And how is that number set?  DC suggested at this point it was getting silly.  I disagreed.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 20, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Torrent ftw. Theres some cracking ones in the Sylvester Mcoy ers (imo, which is disagreed with by about everyone)


I think not.  What clips I've seen of the "Classic" series make me think I'd like it to stay a memory.


----------



## Vash (Apr 20, 2008)

Hes meant to have an evil regeneration too the Valeyard or something the one that goes back in time in trial of the timelord.  the evil ones meant to be the 12th or 13th so hes only 2 good regenerations left.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 20, 2008)

Vash said:


> Hes meant to have an evil regeneration too the Valeyard or something the one that goes back in time in trial of the timelord. the evil ones meant to be the 12th or 13th so hes only 2 good regenerations left.


 

Not so. The valeyard was a possible future incarnation, but not confirmed as such.


Also in an alternate timeline Sylvestorr Mcoy battled Morgana Le Fay who recognized him having entombed his alternate universe merlin-incarnation in ice.


Why that point is of interest I don't know


----------



## cybertect (Apr 20, 2008)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I thought this was a very old school Who episode. I liked it.



Indeed, I was thinking in some ways it wouldn't have been out of place as a Pertwee story.


[Heresy!? ]


----------



## kyser_soze (Apr 20, 2008)

Well that was a load of bollocks. Are we seriously expected to swallow a human empire stretching over 4 galaxies and they're still using semi-autos?

The Sontarons had best deliver. I'm not that impressed with this season so far.


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 20, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Well that was a load of bollocks. Are we seriously expected to swallow a human empire stretching over 4 galaxies and they're still using semi-autos?
> 
> The Sontarons had best deliver. I'm not that impressed with this season so far.



i commented on the guns.

i liked it though.  twas exciting.


----------



## ethel (Apr 20, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I think not.  What clips I've seen of the "Classic" series make me think I'd like it to stay a memory.



you are a FULE 


there are some great stories


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 20, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Well that was a load of bollocks. Are we seriously expected to swallow a human empire stretching over 4 galaxies *and they're still using semi-autos?
> *
> The Sontarons had best deliver. I'm not that impressed with this season so far.




Cheap effective weaponry tho ennit. I have some thoughts on the nature of sci-fi weps and will go off on a rant after i've iplayered teh episode


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Apr 20, 2008)

kyser_soze said:


> Well that was a load of bollocks. Are we seriously expected to swallow a human empire stretching over 4 galaxies and they're still using semi-autos?



And men are still wearing suits & ties?
And are still suffering from baldness?
And the English language hasn't changed even slightly?

The Daleks adapted to use projectile weapons in _Death to the Daleks_, even the Federation researched the possibility to combat the Borg's energy-weapon dampeners.


----------



## Iguana (Apr 21, 2008)

Nine Bob Note said:


> And the English language hasn't changed even slightly?



But the Tardis translates languages telepathically, they mightn't even have been speaking English at all.

What I don't understand about this episode is what the Doctor and Donna are supposed to have done.  What did they do for the Ood that they will revere them?  The Ood had their own plan to free themselves, which they carried out.  The only non-Ood that actually helped them was the scientist who turned down the dampening field on the big brain.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 21, 2008)

sarahluv said:


> you are a FULE


That's what it says on theT-shirt, to be sure.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 21, 2008)

Iguana said:


> What I don't understand about this episode is what the Doctor and Donna are supposed to have done.  What did they do for the Ood that they will revere them?  The Ood had their own plan to free themselves, which they carried out.  The only non-Ood that actually helped them was the scientist who turned down the dampening field on the big brain.


And who was eaten by said brain, when said brain could have bounced him to safety.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 21, 2008)

I thought that was a pretty good episode. 

The Ood emancipate themselves through necessary violence and the PR women got zapped. And someone died by falling into an enourmous brain. 

Didn;t like the gooey sentimentalty at the end or the fact that the Ood sounded like Aled Jones.


----------



## elevendayempire (Apr 21, 2008)

I'm beginning to wonder if Russell T Davies is so meeja that the only thing he and his writers understand is press launches. We had the Lazarus episode last year, then the Titanic one, a press conference in the Adipose one, and now the PR woman in this Ood ep...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 21, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> I'm beginning to wonder if Russell T Davies is so meeja that the only thing he and his writers understand is press launches. We had the Lazarus episode last year, then the Titanic one, a press conference in the Adipose one, and now the PR woman in this Ood ep...



Maybe he just likes to see PR people getting stitched up by nasty alien monsters. Who doesn't?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 21, 2008)

Everyone's calling Solana a PR woman, but I'm sure that she described herself as "Head of Marketing and something Liaison". And her visitors were all buyers, rather than press. So she wasn't in a communications or spin role at all, rather, she was a salesbint who had also assumed control of a thin marketing function - as often happens in big-ticket B2B sales environments where channel and customer relationships are more important than marketing operations. 

I doubt she'd ever even written a press release.


----------



## alsoknownas (Apr 21, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Everyone's calling Solana a PR woman, but I'm sure that she described herself as "Head of Marketing and something Liaison". And her visitors were all buyers, rather than press. So she wasn't in a communications or spin role at all, rather, she was a salesbint who had also assumed control of a thin marketing function - as often happens in big-ticket B2B sales environments where channel and customer relationships are more important than marketing operations.
> 
> I doubt she'd ever even written a press release.



Oh well that clears that up then .


----------



## gnoriac (Apr 21, 2008)

Nine Bob Note said:


> And men are still wearing suits & ties?
> And are still suffering from baldness?
> And the English language hasn't changed even slightly?



Even in the far distant future, retro fashions will still make regular comebacks.


----------



## Epona (Apr 21, 2008)

Just seen the first 3 of this series - the first one was pretty dire although I was surprised to find myself not hating Tate.

I thought the Pompeii episode was great, quite old school, it reminds me of an older Doctor Who story but I can't quite place it.  LOVED the Caecilius/Metella/Quintus involvement - I nearly wet myself over that one, it took me a good 5 minutes to recover after the name was first mentioned   Worked well at keeping me interested/involved in the story too, although I was cracking up and wiping the tears from my eyes every few minutes, nice little 'in-joke' IMO, for those of an age likely to get it, although ruined somewhat by the fact they were all saved, Caecilius is supposed to die damn it.  

The Ood episode was also great, I always like those type of themes in Doctor Who, even if the Ood themselves are somewhat unbelieveable that whole external brain thing is slightly disturbing and doesn't really work for me.


----------



## cybertect (Apr 21, 2008)

Epona said:


> LOVED the Caecilius/Metella/Quintus involvement - I nearly wet myself over that one, it took me a good 5 minutes to recover after the name was first mentioned   Worked well at keeping me interested/involved in the story too, although I was cracking up and wiping the tears from my eyes every few minutes, nice little 'in-joke' IMO, for those of an age likely to get it, although ruined somewhat by the fact they were all saved, Caecilius is supposed to die damn it.


----------



## Epona (Apr 21, 2008)

cybertect said:


>



Oh dear


----------



## innit (Apr 21, 2008)

Epona said:


> nice little 'in-joke' IMO, for those of an age likely to get it, although ruined somewhat by the fact they were all saved, Caecilius is supposed to die damn it.



yep 

although I'd forgotten he died,  at self... pompeii and all


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 21, 2008)

Iguana said:


> But the Tardis translates languages telepathically, they mightn't even have been speaking English at all.
> 
> * What I don't understand about this episode is what the Doctor and Donna are supposed to have done*.  What did they do for the Ood that they will revere them?  The Ood had their own plan to free themselves, which they carried out.  The only non-Ood that actually helped them was the scientist who turned down the dampening field on the big brain.




they treated the Ood like sentient.


And blubbed outside their litle cell.


----------



## PacificOcean (Apr 21, 2008)

It's mindless but fun Saturday teatime telly.

Why is everyone treating like if it were an A-level Shakespeare discusion?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 21, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> It's mindless but fun Saturday teatime telly.
> 
> Why is everyone treating like if it were an A-level Shakespeare discusion?




'Forsooth Shakespeare entertains one on a saturday night. 

I see not the relevance of discussing his plays as if we were students of The Bible'


-some fewl circa 16th century


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 21, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> It's mindless but fun Saturday teatime telly.
> 
> Why is everyone treating like if it were an A-level Shakespeare discusion?



'Cos we can


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 21, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> It's mindless but fun Saturday teatime telly.
> 
> Why is everyone treating like if it were an A-level Shakespeare discusion?



Cause we know how much better it could be and that the writing is bad enough to make us complain in this way.


----------



## Pingu (Apr 21, 2008)

its lost something IMO

maybe trying a bit too hard and taking itself too seriously 

dunno but its losing it


----------



## 8ball (Apr 21, 2008)

Too much gurning.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 22, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> It's mindless but fun Saturday teatime telly.
> 
> Why is everyone treating like if it were an A-level Shakespeare discusion?



Because, no matter how crap it gets, Doctor Who remains about the highest form of art Britain is producing these days. It's either Doctor Who or the Arctic "blablablablablabla BLAH BLAH repeat" Monkeys...


----------



## kyser_soze (Apr 22, 2008)

Nine Bob Note said:


> And men are still wearing suits & ties?
> And are still suffering from baldness?
> And the English language hasn't changed even slightly?
> 
> The Daleks adapted to use projectile weapons in _Death to the Daleks_, even the Federation researched the possibility to combat the Borg's energy-weapon dampeners.



TBH fashion, langauge (I'm pretty sure that a prime time audience would be receptive to subtitled Norte) and Tim McInnery's receeding hairline are less of an issue than me being expected to believe that a civilisation spanning 4 galaxies still uses recognisable C20th weapons and body armour. Fucks sake, they could at least have used the M41-A or even a Lawgiver style multi-munition projectile gun.

But no, they used both conteporary guns and bod suits...methinks the props boys need to watch Future Weapons on Discovery...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2008)

45 minutes and counting


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 26, 2008)

Sontarens - yay !
Martha Jones - nay !!


----------



## ovaltina (Apr 26, 2008)

Ooh! I shall watch this...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Sontarens - yay !
> * Martha Jones - nay* !!





I liked Martha. Mainly because she's gorgeouse and not abrasive like shouty-tate


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 26, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I liked Martha. Mainly because she's gorgeouse and not abrasive like shouty-tate



I find her acting a bit weak which is why i don't like her - and she grins too much!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I find her acting a bit weak which is why i don't like her - and she grins too much!




Oh I've never expected assistants to be able to act. Nor extras and baddies.

They're just an excuse for the Doctor to save the day. and of course they exist so the Doc can be Mr. Exposition


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2008)

GTFO Barrowman! take your little shits and your shouting elsewhere I want my Who!


----------



## ethel (Apr 26, 2008)

he's so bloody LOUD!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 26, 2008)

good episode so far


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 26, 2008)

Now thats how it should be like. Do they have to show bits of the next episode though? Kinda defeats the point of a cliffhanger dont it?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2008)

Aye that was good Who. The Sontarans are ace.


----------



## wishface (Apr 26, 2008)

Mike the Cool Perosn and Martha Jones covered in space goo FTW!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2008)

To think I derided the sontarans earlier in this thread. I'd forgotten just how Win they are


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 26, 2008)

Yeah they're cool.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 26, 2008)

Another totally old school episode. I liked it.

Catherine Tate was very good tonight. I've only seen a few non-Who things she's done, but I'm impressed. She is great at the little actorly things. 

The Sontarans were, of course, cheesy as fuck. This is a good thing.


----------



## cesare (Apr 26, 2008)

"What are you searching for?" "Illegal aliens"

PMSL


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 26, 2008)

I liked that


----------



## moomoo (Apr 26, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> To think I derided the sontarans earlier in this thread. I'd forgotten just how Win they are



They were great weren't they?  We enjoyed that episode.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 26, 2008)

Now, that's more like it.  That was fun.  I enjoyed the start, it felt very old-fashioned, like the TV Batman, or something.


----------



## wishface (Apr 26, 2008)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Another totally old school episode. I liked it.
> 
> Catherine Tate was very good tonight. I've only seen a few non-Who things she's done, but I'm impressed. She is great at the little actorly things.
> 
> The Sontarans were, of course, cheesy as fuck. This is a good thing.


that's because the script called for less foghorn leghorn, thankfully.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2008)

I still haven't seen anything as good as Blink in this run. Heard no metion of bee's dying or owt so god knows where thats going. Nor have we had anymore Rose clues.


Nice to see his sonic screwdriver being largely useless in this episode though.


----------



## Detroit City (Apr 26, 2008)

god, i saw this episode last nite about some fat reduction company where they give people pills and then these cute little aliens grow inside them.  

what total shite it was...i turned it off half way through.  what a joke!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 26, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> god, i saw this episode last nite about some fat reduction company where they give people pills and then these cute little aliens grow inside them.
> 
> what total shite it was...i turned it off half way through.  what a joke!



I enjoyed it because of its shiteness. It was like they were trying to hark back to some of the hammier, less well funded Who years *cough* pertwee and his predeccesors*cough*


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 26, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> god, i saw this episode last nite about some fat reduction company where they give people pills and then these cute little aliens grow inside them.
> 
> what total shite it was...i turned it off half way through.  what a joke!



Do you just exist to shit on threads? You dull fucking idiot.


----------



## spirals (Apr 26, 2008)

Best one yet so far I thought


----------



## Vash (Apr 26, 2008)

Almost a good Dr Who episode.  The Sontarran's are far better than Daleks and came across as a breath of fresh air.  I don't see the point in bringing back Martha at this stage they could have used the brigadier or someone from the orginal series instead.


----------



## cesare (Apr 26, 2008)

I liked it lots, but it still wasn't as spooky as the original sontaran one. 

It's more fun than spooky. I know people back there ---> were saying to me that it's because of the screening hour and kids, but kids watched it back then too.

I think they should make it so it sends the kiddies hiding behind the sofa


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 26, 2008)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Do you just exist to shit on threads? You dull fucking idiot.



haaha


----------



## wishface (Apr 26, 2008)

Nice to see how trained soldiers with a long history of dealing with alien technology and invasions are as useless as a chocolate teapot.


----------



## tangerinedream (Apr 26, 2008)

Vash said:


> I don't see the point in bringing back Martha at this stage they could have used the brigadier or someone from the orginal series instead.



But there are lots of people like me who are nearly 30 and are far too young for the brigadeer. What chance have kids got? I thought it was a very good episode.


----------



## wishface (Apr 26, 2008)

Wasn't the Brigadier in one of the new Who's?


----------



## Psychonaut (Apr 26, 2008)

Loved the pseudo-medieval sontaran banter  - lived up to the original 70s script. That was mike off  'the young ones' btw. (this weeks i mean, not the 70s)


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 26, 2008)

Sontarans....the most deadly warriors in the universe.

Oh, by the way, you can beat them by slapping them on the back of the neck on a weak spot.   A weak spot that was, iirc, _outside_ the armour.

Enjoying it, though.


----------



## T & P (Apr 26, 2008)

spirals said:


> Best one yet so far I thought


 Agreed. Best one of this series by far... though one could argue that could not be difficult.


----------



## cybertect (Apr 26, 2008)

Vash said:


> Almost a good Dr Who episode.  The Sontarran's are far better than Daleks and came across as a breath of fresh air.  I don't see the point in bringing back Martha at this stage they could have used the brigadier or someone from the orginal series instead.



Must admit I was waiting for someone like Nicholas Courtney or John Levene to make a cameo appearance. Still, they satisfied my inner Who-geek with the references to the Doctor still being 'on the payroll' and DT's mention of UNIT having more limited budgets in the 1970s


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 26, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I still haven't seen anything as good as Blink in this run.


God, no.  Episodes _that_ good are infrequent.  It's just that the first two were terrible and the third only passable, so it's a relief to have an episode that was actually good.  Interestingly, while at first I thought Tate wasn't as bad as I'd feared, in this episode she began to annoy me.  She over acted and was really quite poor.


----------



## T & P (Apr 26, 2008)

There were some memorable ones in the last series though, and those that weren't were still better than the first 3 this season.

The two-parter based in 1914 shown just before Blink when the Doctor becomes human and loses his memory was also fantastic. As was the famous "Are you my mummy" gas mask episode a couple of years ago.


----------



## Vash (Apr 26, 2008)

In the old series the Sontarans were normal size, why make them so small?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 26, 2008)

T & P said:


> There were some memorable ones in the last series though, and those that weren't were still better than the first 3 this season.


Yup.


----------



## ethel (Apr 26, 2008)

Vash said:


> In the old series the Sontarans were normal size, why make them so small?



i asked my geeky who friend and he said they had always been small.

not that small though, surely?!


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 26, 2008)

Vash said:


> In the old series the Sontarans were normal size, why make them so small?


They come from a planet with higher gravity than ours, apparently.  It makes them squat and small.


----------



## PacificOcean (Apr 27, 2008)

I didn't think this was a good as last's weeks Ood one.

Still great telly.

Though the long list of credits at the end - no wonder the licence fee is so high!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 27, 2008)

Not even Martha's clone can act


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 27, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not even Martha's clone can act



My thoughts too - however despite that I really enjoyed it, a good, solid traditional style episode.

Half way through Mr. QofG's and I had a discussion about whether it would have been interesting to make Bernard Cribbins' character the same one he played in "Daleks Invasion Earth: 2150AD". I know the two Peter Cushing films are not generally considered part of the "Dr Who" canon but...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 27, 2008)

re : Bernard i was think the same thing.........

re the episode , i actually really enjoyed it , although im hating CT but she seems to be growing on me


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Apr 27, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> I didn't think this was a good as last's weeks Ood one.
> 
> Still great telly.
> 
> Though the long list of credits at the end - no wonder the licence fee is so high!



Imo the ood one was shit. This was more like how it should be.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 27, 2008)

So far, I think each episode has been better than the previous one.
Tate is still annoying me though


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 27, 2008)

Martha - Meh
Sontarans - Meh
References to the UNIT dateline controversy - Win


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 27, 2008)

I liked the Sontarans. Getting a little tired of sinister monopolistic corporations that turn out to be fronts for aliens, though.


----------



## rollinder (Apr 27, 2008)

CNT36 said:


> References to the UNIT dateline controversy - Win


 
Even the Doctor doesn't know if it was in the 70's or 80's that he worked for them 

plus the credit to Robert Holmes & a nod to old school Malcolm Hulke style 
enviromentalism - the Doctor pointing out that cars with no emisins weren't actually a good thing because no emisions=more cars on the road = the oil being used up faster  + him not being happy with the way UNIT was dealing with things/how military they were (shades of Doctor Who and The Silurians) & Donna's complaint at heavyhanded policing of the workers and her namecheck of Guantanamo Bay.
and they took it back to the pre Eric Saward idea of the Doctor not being happy with guns


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2008)

rollinder said:


> Even the Doctor doesn't know if it was in the 70's or 80's that he worked for them


It was the 70s.  Jon Pertwee.  I watched it.


----------



## rollinder (Apr 28, 2008)

Vash said:


> In the old series the Sontarans were normal size, why make them so small?


They're nasty brutish and short that's why

They're a cloned race, but not all from the same person so it depends which major Sonteran they were cloned from.



DexterTCN said:


> Sontarans....the most deadly warriors in the universe.
> 
> Oh, by the way, you can beat them by slapping them on the back of the neck on a weak spot. A weak spot that was, iirc, _outside_ the armour.
> 
> Enjoying it, though.


 
That's where they plug themselves in to recharge their energy levels - staying true to Tom Baker. 

oh and there was a referance to an off recycled by Terrance Dicks line about female thorax's


----------



## rollinder (Apr 28, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> It was the 70s. Jon Pertwee. I watched it.


 
nah - the controversy (from what I remember reading about it)
is that back at the time, the Pertwee UNIT episodes were never dated in the programme as actually taking place in the 70's, various important/later important members of organised fandom and iirc some of the programme writers viewed them as taking place at some point in the (near) future

Sarah Jane Smith joined Pertwee's Doctor when he was still working for UNIT and later claimed to be from 1980 (Tom's Pyramid of Mars) 
but Davison's story Mawdryn Undead messes things up by having the Brigadier retiring in '77.

/geek

eta: 






			
				wiki said:
			
		

> In a rare case of an explicit calendar date being applied to the UNIT timeline, the Brigadier indicates that Benton left UNIT in 1979 and became a used car salesman, and that Sullivan had been seconded into doing secret government work at some point prior to 1983. The episode also establishes that the Brigadier left UNIT in 1976 and became a teacher, although the serials The Five Doctors and Battlefield establish that he later reestablished his relationship with the organization. (See UNIT dating controversy.)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIT_dating_controversy


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2008)

rollinder said:


> the Pertwee UNIT episodes were never dated in the programme as actually taking place in the 70's


  I think the fashions adequately do that.  

(Aside.  In the Sat episode, the Doctor said he doesn't like people who carry guns, yet I seem to remember Jon Pertwee using a revolver.  I haven't watched the old Who since I was a kid, so I might be wrong.  Does anyone else remember?)


----------



## hektik (Apr 28, 2008)

there was another reference to the medusa cascade in this weeks episode.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 28, 2008)

Re Catherine Tate: don't you think she looks tired?


----------



## d.a.s.h (Apr 28, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> (Aside.  In the Sat episode, the Doctor said he doesn't like people who carry guns, yet I seem to remember Jon Pertwee using a revolver.  I haven't watched the old Who since I was a kid, so I might be wrong.  Does anyone else remember?)



Have memories of Pertwee indulging in some sword-fencing with the Master but not of him using a gun.


----------



## wishface (Apr 28, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Re Catherine Tate: don't you think she looks tired?


well she makes me look tired as well.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 28, 2008)

Where the sultanas always that small?


----------



## Vash (Apr 28, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Re Catherine Tate: don't you think she looks tired?



Actually Martha looks tired.  So far shes the dubious honour of being worse companion, worst member of Torchwood, worst supporting actress and now with the clone worst villian.  Maybe the Doctor could regenerate into her so she could be Worst doctor.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Apr 28, 2008)

Some of the worst acting on TV in that show:

Unit guard on being zapped by Santogen General: "Oh my God whats happening!"

Isn't it obvious? Surely a "noooooooooooooo" or an "aaaiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeee" would have been better, but that would have required a miniscule amount of acting talent...


----------



## wishface (Apr 28, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Where the sultanas always that small?


yep.

small, brutish, conflict addicts.

Didn't you see all the white vans parked around the earth?


----------



## 8den (Apr 28, 2008)

rollinder said:


> /geek
> 
> eta:
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIT_dating_controversy



Congratulations you've found the nerdiest wikipedia entry evah!


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not even Martha's clone can act


You say that, but I think it was comparing Donna with Martha that made me realise how much I miss Martha!


----------



## spanglechick (Apr 28, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> Some of the worst acting on TV in that show:
> 
> Unit guard on being zapped by Santogen General: "Oh my God whats happening!"
> 
> Isn't it obvious? Surely a "noooooooooooooo" or an "aaaiiiiiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeee" would have been better, but that would have required a miniscule amount of acting talent...



tbf - that's the scriptwriter's fault.



danny la rouge said:


> You say that, but I think it was comparing Donna with Martha that made me realise how much I miss Martha!




do you, perchance fancy Martha?

I've noticed the only people who still have a problem with Tate are men...


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> do you, perchance fancy Martha?


  There is that.

But no, I initially had no problem with Tate.  She wasn't as annoying as I'd feared, and was not the worst thing about the first three episodes, which were stinkers.  However, Sat's episode was a good one, and she was - in my view - very close to being the worst thing in it.  (The worst thing was the Big Corporation As Cover For Alien Invasion Again storyline).


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2008)

Vash said:


> Actually Martha looks tired.  So far shes the dubious honour of being worse companion, worst member of Torchwood, worst supporting actress and now with the clone worst villian.  Maybe the Doctor could regenerate into her so she could be Worst doctor.



Not one of those things is true, not by a long chalk. 

Bonnie Langford
Owen the rapist
too many to choose from
Okay, I cant remember which villains were clones, but she still wouldn't win that one
Sylvester McCoy or Peter Davidson


----------



## Detroit City (Apr 28, 2008)

they are having a dr. who marathon on SciFi channel today from 9am to 5pm....showing episodes over teh last few seasons.  I think i'll watch a few since i'm off work today


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2008)

belboid said:


> Not one of those things is true, not by a long chalk.
> 
> Bonnie Langford
> Owen the rapist
> ...




Leave Mcoy alone


----------



## Detroit City (Apr 28, 2008)

right now they're showing:

Doctor Who 
Boom Town
056 SCIFI   
Mon, Apr 28, 9:00a - 10:00a 
The Doctor encounters an enemy from his past when the crew decides to take a holiday; an alien plot is behind the construction of a nuclear power plant in Cardiff. Image courtesy of 2006 BBC/SCI FI Channel 
(Repeat. Orig. air date: 06/04/2005)
2005 | TVPG | 60 mins 
Parental Guide10+ yrs


----------



## goldenecitrone (Apr 28, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Leave Mcoy alone



Why? He was shit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2008)

he was certainly the best dresser. And the dark side of his character comes out more in the books.

Plus he was in Happiness Patrol which is clearly the most awesome episode out of the lot


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2008)

no it wasn't, it was shit.  Albeit shit based on a good premise, but shit nevertheless (I downloaded it recently to check it out again following your  comments, and you are sooooo wrong)


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2008)

_it had the bertie basset monster


_


----------



## belboid (Apr 28, 2008)

quite


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 28, 2008)

Leave Davidson alone, though.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Apr 28, 2008)

Eeryone says Hapiness Patrol is shit but it gave me nightmares for months...


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 28, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Leave Mcoy alone





Maurice Picarda said:


> Leave Davidson alone, though.


----------



## ethel (Apr 28, 2008)

ghost light anyone?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Apr 28, 2008)

sarahluv said:


> ghost light anyone?



No thanks.


----------



## Psychonaut (Apr 28, 2008)

Martha is a wrong'un: 'change the system from inside'  yeah, weve all heard that one before.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 28, 2008)

Psychonaut said:


> Martha is a wrong'un: 'change the system from inside'  yeah, weve all heard that one before.


Yup, she's gone bad.


----------



## rollinder (Apr 29, 2008)

anyone else get the feeling that this years theme is the consiquences of the Doctor actions - Donna refusing to stay back in her own life, Doctor, Donna and the Tardis becoming Roman household Gods and part of the Ooods song, Martha turning bad/working for the enemy as a result of how the Dr fucked her/her family up and got her the job with UNIT, Rose returning from the parralell universe...


----------



## rollinder (Apr 29, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I think the fashions adequately do that.
> 
> (Aside. In the Sat episode, the Doctor said he doesn't like people who carry guns, yet I seem to remember Jon Pertwee using a revolver. I haven't watched the old Who since I was a kid, so I might be wrong. Does anyone else remember?)


 
Tom Baker did once so did Davison.


----------



## hektik (Apr 29, 2008)

rollinder said:


> anyone else get the feeling that this years theme is the consiquences of the Doctor actions - Donna refusing to stay back in her own life, Doctor, Donna and the Tardis becoming Roman household Gods and part of the Ooods song, Martha turning bad/working for the enemy as a result of how the Dr fucked her/her family up and got her the job with UNIT, Rose returning from the parralell universe...



yes, very much so: in the first episode, nothing 'bad' happened until he turned up  - his arrival sped up the process and meant that he endangered all the people who were taking the diet pill. 

in the second episode, he had to choose between killing all of pompeii, or letting the earth be invaded by those lava creatures - he has to become responsible for etan exploding.


----------



## wishface (Apr 29, 2008)

rollinder said:


> anyone else get the feeling that this years theme is the consiquences of the Doctor actions - Donna refusing to stay back in her own life, Doctor, Donna and the Tardis becoming Roman household Gods and part of the Ooods song, Martha turning bad/working for the enemy as a result of how the Dr fucked her/her family up and got her the job with UNIT, Rose returning from the parralell universe...


That's not a new theme.


----------



## Vash (Apr 29, 2008)

All the good McCoy stuff:  the other, him being a Victorian scientist who became a timelord.  (Not in the TV series but in the spin off books) has been forgotten about in the new series.  It would be a very different show if McCoy was still Doctor, very few would watch it but it would be higher quality. 

Baker was the worst Doctor, don't even ask which one.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 29, 2008)

hektik said:


> he has to become responsible for etan exploding.



That's hardly a dilemma is it? The chance to assasinate all those future David Camerons would make me shit my pants with glee


----------



## ethel (Apr 29, 2008)

i watched half of the two doctors last night. peri's voice is annoying me.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 29, 2008)

Vash said:


> All the good McCoy stuff:  the other, him being a Victorian scientist who became a timelord.  (Not in the TV series but in the spin off books) has been forgotten about in the new series.  It would be a very different show if McCoy was still Doctor, very few would watch it but it would be higher quality.
> 
> *Baker was the worst Doctor, don't even ask which one.*



I saw him in Maidenhead High Street a while ago (Colin that is) and he is huge! Talk about being at the pies. However I was still overly excited at seeing a real life Dr. Who, even if it was a shit one


----------



## ethel (Apr 29, 2008)

i've only spotted mccoy. that was in glasgow.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Apr 29, 2008)

sarahluv said:


> i've only spotted mccoy. that was in glasgow.



More impressive than Baker (Colin) I'd say. And probably thinner too


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2008)

Vash said:


> All the good McCoy stuff:  the other, him being a Victorian scientist who became a timelord.  (Not in the TV series but in the spin off books) has been forgotten about in the new series.  It would be a very different show if McCoy was still Doctor, very few would watch it but it would be higher quality.


no it bloody well wouldnt be.  I've rewatched happiness patrol & am just checking the one sarahluv mentioned, and they are both very low quality.  Not utterly awful, but everything - production values, acting, script, is a hell of a lot weaker.  Of course I am missing the grand story arcs and underlying bits watching it like this, but still.  

Ace does keep referring to the Doctor as 'professor' - is that to do with the utterly daft idea of him being a victorian scientist?


----------



## Vash (Apr 29, 2008)

belboid said:


> no it bloody well wouldnt be.  I've rewatched happiness patrol & am just checking the one sarahluv mentioned, and they are both very low quality.  Not utterly awful, but everything - production values, acting, script, is a hell of a lot weaker.  Of course I am missing the grand story arcs and underlying bits watching it like this, but still.
> 
> Ace does keep referring to the Doctor as 'professor' - is that to do with the utterly daft idea of him being a victorian scientist?




It was in one of the books, Longburrow I think. He was orginally a Victorian Scientist who went to Gallifrey and was eventually reborn as a Timelord.


----------



## belboid (Apr 29, 2008)

Thank fuck they ditched that stupid idea.


----------



## alef (Apr 29, 2008)

Is there any attempt anywhere to explain where the bodies come from for regenerations? Not only do we instantly have these fully grown adults, but also distinct personality traits. 

Maybe I'm asking for too much (this is Doctor Who) but then perhaps one of the more clever spin off novels or radio plays has toyed with this problem?


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 29, 2008)

I guess when the rest of their bodies change so do their balance of hormones and whatnot- hence the personality change.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 29, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> I guess when the rest of their bodies change so do their balance of hormones and whatnot- hence the personality change.


That was the rationale of the modern series, wasn't it?.  Didn't Tennant say something to that effect shortly after regeneration?


----------



## rollinder (Apr 30, 2008)

wishface said:


> That's not a new theme.


as old as The Ark (Hartnell), innit


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 30, 2008)

alef said:


> Is there any attempt anywhere to explain where the bodies come from for regenerations? Not only do we instantly have these fully grown adults, but also distinct personality traits.
> 
> Maybe I'm asking for too much (this is Doctor Who) but then perhaps one of the more clever spin off novels or radio plays has toyed with this problem?


 

http://newapocrypha.wetpaint.com/page/Regeneration?t=anon

This is quite useful. Most relevantly, if we accept spin-offs as canon, Time Lords have thirteen sets of genetic coding woven into them in a "biogenensis" process, and so their bodies and personalities for each regeneration are pre-ordained. 

However, that would be particularly tricky to admit into TV canon because it makes a fourteenth Doctor very difficult to introduce.


----------



## Vash (Apr 30, 2008)

I think the last series talked about the Master getting more regenerations from the Timelords or some such bollocks.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2008)

Well, funny you should say that...my daughter heard a rumour on Bebo about the Master and the Doctor.

Who wants to know it?


----------



## Stigmata (Apr 30, 2008)

Vash said:


> I think the last series talked about the Master getting more regenerations from the Timelords or some such bollocks.



That happened in a Davison story.


----------



## wishface (May 1, 2008)

Vash said:


> It was in one of the books, Longburrow I think. He was orginally a Victorian Scientist who went to Gallifrey and was eventually reborn as a Timelord.


ye gods they didn't try to shoehorn HG Wells into Dr Who canon?


----------



## rollinder (May 1, 2008)

Spoiler: already happened in Timelash



discovering that the person who'd accidentally joined them and encountered creatures not unlike the ones in The Time Machine had actually been a pre-books HG Wells.



Read a massive spoiler for a future episode in the offical magazine yesterday - it's gonna really piss off a lot of die hard fans  i'm not going to say what it is here just 



Spoiler



remember the Doctor saying he used to be a dad once...


----------



## wishface (May 3, 2008)

yeah, that's not so much a spoiler now...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 3, 2008)

I really hate the storyline they've showed in the next episode, the doctors daughter? ffs, just as it was getting good.


----------



## wishface (May 3, 2008)

tut tut...the doctor's sexy young lithe daughter!


----------



## Vash (May 3, 2008)

She'll almost certainly get killed off in that episode.  

If the atmosphere did catch fire everyone would be burnt to death, there be no air left or clouds afterwards.


----------



## alef (May 3, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> http://newapocrypha.wetpaint.com/page/Regeneration?t=anon
> 
> This is quite useful. Most relevantly, if we accept spin-offs as canon, Time Lords have thirteen sets of genetic coding woven into them in a "biogenensis" process, and so their bodies and personalities for each regeneration are pre-ordained.
> 
> However, that would be particularly tricky to admit into TV canon because it makes a fourteenth Doctor very difficult to introduce.



Fantastic link, thank you!


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (May 3, 2008)

As ever, if you need a good episode, get a two-parter.

Streets ahead of anything this series and approaching "Blink" for excellence.

Flash of Rose
"are you my mummy"
The Valiant
Donna being fucking brilliant

Spot on!


----------



## wishface (May 3, 2008)

Ich bin ein Mod said:


> Flash of Rose



Where was this?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (May 3, 2008)

wishface said:


> Where was this?


Tardis screen just before the doctor rang the Sontarans.


----------



## wishface (May 3, 2008)

sure it wasn't a screensaver?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (May 3, 2008)

wishface said:


> sure it wasn't a screensaver?


Rose screaming? Nah.


----------



## 8den (May 3, 2008)

wishface said:


> tut tut...the doctor's sexy young lithe daughter!



Sexy young lithe lesbian daughter, after rechecking her snog on iplayer. 

That was an excellent episode btw, Tate did not annoy.


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (May 3, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Rose screaming? Nah.



Rose screaming "Donna" if I'm not mistaken. Possibly watching the Doctor from her other dimension?


----------



## Vash (May 4, 2008)

8den said:


> Sexy young lithe lesbian daughter, after rechecking her snog on iplayer.



pretty sure that was a man, also why was there a hammer lying in the Tardis?


----------



## Balbi (May 4, 2008)

Ich bin ein Mod said:


> "are you my mummy"



Outstanding line, I cried laughing.


----------



## belboid (May 4, 2008)

not bad at all. gotta watch it again, cos I'm sure that woman missed out israel when she was going through the list of nuclear armed states....


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 4, 2008)

Vash said:


> pretty sure that was a man, also why was there a hammer lying in the Tardis?



because if you watched the confidential donnas traners weren't sturdy enough it was supposed to be a heeled shoe originally... but tate wears trainers on set


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (May 4, 2008)

Vash said:


> pretty sure that was a man, also why was there a hammer lying in the Tardis?



Because you always see the Doctor hitting controls. There was some string round the handle which we've seen him using before.


----------



## zoooo (May 4, 2008)

Ich bin ein Mod said:


> Rose screaming "Donna" if I'm not mistaken. Possibly watching the Doctor from her other dimension?



I thought "Doctor".


----------



## DexterTCN (May 4, 2008)

Vash said:


> She'll almost certainly get killed off in that episode.
> 
> If the atmosphere did catch fire everyone would be burnt to death, there be no air left or clouds afterwards.


Depends what temperature the gas burns at


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (May 4, 2008)

zoooo said:
			
		

> I thought "Doctor".



Might have been, there was only the briefest of flashes so i could have been mistaken


----------



## Bob_the_lost (May 4, 2008)

Ich bin ein Mod said:


> "are you my mummy"
> 
> Spot on!





Balbi said:


> Outstanding line, I cried laughing.



It was fantastic, difficult to describe to others though


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 4, 2008)

Vash said:


> If the atmosphere did catch fire everyone would be burnt to death, there be no air left or clouds afterwards.



Mind you, given the height of the fire-burst, and the speed at which it travelled,  I think we're talking stratosphere or mesosphere, rather than the whole of the atmosphere.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 4, 2008)

Ich bin ein Mod said:


> Rose screaming "Donna" if I'm not mistaken. Possibly watching the Doctor from her other dimension?



As a halfway-competent lip-reader, I have to say it *did* look like she was screaming "Donna!".
Mind you, she could have been screaming "doughnut" instead.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 4, 2008)

belboid said:


> not bad at all. gotta watch it again, cos I'm sure that woman missed out israel when she was going through the list of nuclear armed states....



She did.
I'm embarrassed to report that the words "fucking BBC pro-Zionist cocks" spewed from my mouth mere milli-seconds after I noticed the exclusion.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 4, 2008)

I did spot the omission of Israel (and inclusion of N. Korea which is far less likely to have functioning nukes than Israel) in that list. Rather poor form from the BBC there, if they're naming unofficial nuclear nations like that then they really should name all of them, Israel's nukes have been the world's biggest open secret for about thirty years 

Other than that, good stuff. Watching the inventor guy stamping around yelling 'I'm clever!' for nobody to hear made me grin 

Bonus points for 'Are you my mummy?' go without saying.


----------



## zoooo (May 4, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> As a halfway-competent lip-reader, I have to say it *did* look like she was screaming "Donna!".
> Mind you, she could have been screaming "doughnut" instead.



Ha!

I don't think she even knows Donna's name though? They haven't met have they?
Of course if she's been studying them or something from another dimension she'd know...

The boy genius dying made me sad. 
I wanted him to come 'good', but then I wanted the Doctor to take him with them as an assistant.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 4, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> As a halfway-competent lip-reader, I have to say it *did* look like she was screaming "Donna!".
> Mind you, she could have been screaming "doughnut" instead.



it was docter you luddites and she's back on earth having found a way back but she might not be as nice as she once was... i'm thinking evil rose...


----------



## Bob_the_lost (May 4, 2008)

I was hoping Ros had only been winged by the Sontarans and that he'd be an assistant, far less annoying than the smart kid.


----------



## zoooo (May 4, 2008)

The genius child was great.
But I have no idea why they decided he had to put on a American accent.
The actor is brilliant, and he would have done even better if allowed his normal voice.


----------



## andy2002 (May 4, 2008)

zoooo said:


> The genius child was great.
> But I have no idea why they decided he had to put on a American accent.
> The actor is brilliant, and he would have done even better if allowed his normal voice.



http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1528442/

Thought I recognised him –  he was in that Nicholas Lyndhurst sitcom last year. He was good in it actually.


----------



## zoooo (May 4, 2008)

Yep!
He's very talented.


----------



## rapattaque (May 4, 2008)

Right, in last weeks episode Donna went to see her grandad and parents. From the general tone of the meeting it occured to me that we might be supposed to be believe that Catherine Tate's character is a vibrant young twenty-something? I know Dr Who and sci-fi in general istretches our credulity and imagination... but is this not a step to far?!


----------



## alef (May 4, 2008)

Tate is 39 and Cribbins is 79 so it's not stretching to have two generations between them. Though no idea how old the actress is who plays the mum.


----------



## zoooo (May 4, 2008)

I think Donna is supposed to be early 30s.


----------



## rapattaque (May 4, 2008)

Phew, Thank God for that. I thought we were talking early 20's for a minute. Didn't her parents talk to her as if she was quite young though, 'Where've you been?' an all that??


----------



## zoooo (May 4, 2008)

Yeah they do a bit. I suppose it might be a comment on the fact that people are staying younger for longer now. In the sense of living at home longer and things. RTD does a lot of that.

It shows how interfering her mum is. And I dunno, that she's a bit lost.


----------



## FiFi (May 4, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> Phew, Thank God for that. I thought we were talking early 20's for a minute. Didn't her parents talk to her as if she was quite young though, 'Where've you been?' an all that??



As a late 30-something women whose mother still checks that I've been "eating properly", I find the family dynamics all too believable.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 4, 2008)

zoooo said:


> Ha!
> 
> I don't think she even knows Donna's name though? They haven't met have they?


Not formally, but there was some verbal communication in episode 1.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 4, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> it was docter you luddites and she's back on earth having found a way back but she might not be as nice as she once was... i'm thinking evil rose...



Only if she's evil like she was when Cassandra possessed her body back in series 2. That were dead horny, that were.


----------



## Balbi (May 4, 2008)

"back of the neck..."


----------



## DexterTCN (May 4, 2008)

She's slipped in another catch-phrase.


----------



## rapattaque (May 4, 2008)

It's just occured to me that Bernard Cribbins who was in this last episode as Am I Bovvered's Grandad met the Dr before in two feature films in't 60's when they teamed up to send the Daleks packing. They didn't seem to recognise each other like!


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 4, 2008)

Just finished watching the episode - really enjoyed it. Bernard Cribbins is great, loved the "Are you my Mummy" quote and Catherine Tate is getting better. Plus the glimpse of Rose, of course. And the chat about the Brigadier! Good episode I felt


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (May 4, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> It's just occured to me that Bernard Cribbins who was in this last episode as Am I Bovvered's Grandad met the Dr before in two feature films in't 60's when they teamed up to send the Daleks packing. They didn't seem to recognise each other like!



Not canon, that's why


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 4, 2008)

Ich bin ein Mod said:


> Not canon, that's why



Yeah I know a few people - me included - who thought it might be cool if it turned out to be the same character but would be tricky canon-wise.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 5, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Yeah I know a few people - me included - who thought it might be cool if it turned out to be the same character but would be tricky canon-wise.



He was a copper in the film, wasn't he?


----------



## belboid (May 5, 2008)

He was.  & whilst it might not be strictly 'mentionable' for canonical reasons, they could have come up with some witty half-reference a la the 'was it the seventies or the eighties' one last week


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2008)

btw - watching again now on i player - reminded me.  donna had to do a mr spock 'V' shape with her fingers to open the sontarian door.


----------



## moonsi til (May 5, 2008)

I have just rented out 'The Darjeeling Limited'. Seems like there will be a few laughs in it and I adore watching anything with India in it.

ETA: d'oh...wrong thread !


----------



## Balbi (May 5, 2008)

moonsi til said:


> I have just rented out 'The Darjeeling Limited'. Seems like there will be a few laughs in it and I adore watching anything with India in it.
> 
> ETA: d'oh...wrong thread !



I watched it, it's pretty but a bit rubbish.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 5, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> He was a copper in the film, wasn't he?



Yep - PC Tom Campbell


----------



## teecee (May 6, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> As a halfway-competent lip-reader, I have to say it *did* look like she was screaming "Donna!".
> Mind you, she could have been screaming "doughnut" instead.




and as my daughter had to point out to me  -we've only seen Rose with Donna so far and not the Doctor  ...


----------



## danny la rouge (May 6, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> the doctors daughter?


Or is it that simple?

He did reveal he'd "been a father".  But not whether he had a son or a daughter...


----------



## 8den (May 6, 2008)

zoooo said:


> The genius child was great.
> But I have no idea why they decided he had to put on a American accent.
> The actor is brilliant, and he would have done even better if allowed his normal voice.



Well he was very short and manic, I kinda thought they were having a gentle go at Mr Cruise and Scientology. 

rewatching the episode and I'm fairly certain the Doctor's daughter snogs a girl. 

Anyone else like the way that UNIT weren't crap? Actually kicking Sontarian arse, and clever use of The Valient? Nice to see mankind stand up for themselves. 

Really enjoyed it. Tate managed to not annoy me and grow on me just a little.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 6, 2008)

I'm enjoying this series apart from one thing - the background music.  It's far too intrusive and overblown.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 6, 2008)

it was worse on Torchwood. Screeching violins FTL


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2008)

just over an hour to go. Any ideas on who the Doc produced a daughter with?


----------



## alef (May 10, 2008)

Romana?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> just over an hour to go. Any ideas on who the Doc produced a daughter with?


I think you're barking up the wrong tree.

I think it'll be something like...a machine which takes a genetic sample and produces an offspring instantaneously.  (Though not necessarily that, but that kind of idea).


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 10, 2008)

Boring. I'm really starting to tire of doctor who it seems.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2008)

> a machine which takes a genetic sample and produces an offspring instantaneously.



Actually, exactly that.  

I liked that.


----------



## cesare (May 10, 2008)

That's the Doctor's limited number of regenerations problem sorted


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Boring. I'm really starting to tire of doctor who it seems.


You must be; I thought that was a good episode.

Not sure why the Doctor thought his daughter wouldn't regenerate, mind.  "_Too much like me_".  Doesn't make sense.  Although, she didn't, did she?  But she did ... reanimate.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2008)

cesare said:


> That's the Doctor's limited number of regenerations problem sorted


Ooh yeah.  So you think he dies at the end of this series and she takes over the Tardis keys?


----------



## 8ball (May 10, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Actually, exactly that.
> 
> I liked that.



Except if you split a genome into two haploid parts and recombine you always end up with a clone.

Maybe I'm being too picky but I thought that was an emotionally-incontinent pile of wank.


----------



## magneze (May 10, 2008)

cesare said:


> That's the Doctor's limited number of regenerations problem sorted


Yeah, just what I was thinking. If this is the last Dr then how convenient that a sprog should turn up.


----------



## Belushi (May 10, 2008)

Would have been better as a double episode imo, liked the fact they'd only been fighting for seven days.


----------



## cesare (May 10, 2008)

Bosky ended up saying he enjoyed it, even though he was taking the piss to start off with


----------



## Stigmata (May 10, 2008)

That episode didn't make a lot of sense to me, but the twist was clever and the daughter was as cute as a button. Not sure about the westcountry warlord!


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2008)

8ball said:


> Except if you split a genome into two haploid parts and recombine you always end up with a clone.
> 
> Maybe I'm being too picky but I thought that was an emotionally-incontinent pile of wank.


Grumpy old bugger.  _It was a good episode_!


----------



## cesare (May 10, 2008)

Magneze said:


> Yeah, just what I was thinking. If this is the last Dr then how convenient that a sprog should turn up.



Quite a neat solution I thought


----------



## danny la rouge (May 10, 2008)

Belushi said:


> liked the fact they'd only been fighting for seven days.


Yup, that was class.


----------



## cesare (May 10, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Ooh yeah.  So you think he dies at the end of this series and she takes over the Tardis keys?




I haven't quite worked out how I'd write it, but along those lines yeah


----------



## cesare (May 10, 2008)

Acksherly, thinking about it ... they'll prolly have to do some sort of episode with him transferring all his memories and that into her before he kicks it and she takes over.


----------



## Stigmata (May 10, 2008)

So was it definitely a regeneration and not just the terraforming gas bringing her back to life? I got a bit confused.


----------



## cesare (May 10, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> So was it definitely a regeneration and not just the terraforming gas bringing her back to life? I got a bit confused.



I think the point is that we're meant to be confused over that bit and it'll all unfold as the series goes on.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 10, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> You must be; I thought that was a good episode.
> 
> Not sure why the Doctor thought his daughter wouldn't regenerate, mind.  "_Too much like me_".  Doesn't make sense.  Although, she didn't, did she?  But she did ... reanimate.



Seemed to look more like a search for spock rip off reanimation.


----------



## strung out (May 10, 2008)

why do you all seem to think the doctor is going to run out of regenerations at the end of the series? he's only on his 10th regeneration


----------



## Groucho (May 10, 2008)

"Too much like me" made perfect sense. It referred to her jumping in front of a bullet for him.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 10, 2008)

strung_out said:


> why do you all seem to think the doctor is going to run out of regenerations at the end of the series? he's only on his 10th regeneration



Most timelords only get up to about 10, some less. There is no finite amount I think they said once that 12 was the most anybody managed.


----------



## cesare (May 10, 2008)

strung_out said:


> why do you all seem to think the doctor is going to run out of regenerations at the end of the series? he's only on his 10th regeneration



Good point, maybe not at the end of this particular series. But they've got to start paving the way innit. Only 3 to go ...


----------



## cesare (May 10, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Most timelords only get up to about 10, some less. There is no finite amount I think they said once that 12 was the most anybody managed.



Yeah, I thought 12 too for some reason so 13 actors max unless sprog introduced.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 10, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Most timelords only get up to about 10, some less. There is no finite amount I think they said once that 12 was the most anybody managed.



I think that 12 was a limit imposed by the Timelords not a physical one. The Master managed a few more, sorta.


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (May 10, 2008)

What?

What!

That was _fucking terrible_

Properly cack.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2008)

Peter Davison's little girl is ever so pretty but didn't really convince. Wish she'd stayed dead. 

Good story, this one, though. Proper _Who_.


----------



## spanglechick (May 10, 2008)

am i right in thinking this was a Moffat story?


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (May 10, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> am i right in thinking this was a Moffat story?


Nope, then it would have been _good_

Stephen Greenhorn, writer of the equally poor _The Lazarus Experiment_


----------



## strung out (May 10, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Most timelords only get up to about 10, some less. There is no finite amount I think they said once that 12 was the most anybody managed.



no, all the timelords are supposed to have 12 regenerations (and 13 lives in total) its been stated many times throughout the series. in some rare cases (eg The Master) its been possible to have more than 12 regenerations.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> am i right in thinking this was a Moffat story?


 
Nope. Stephen Greenhorn, whoever he may be. Moffat has a two-parter set in a library. A fortnight away.


----------



## cesare (May 10, 2008)

Is she Peter Davison's daughter irl? (I'm so useless with this sorta stuff).

She reminds me of Emma Bunton


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2008)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I think that 12 was a limit imposed by the Timelords not a physical one. The Master managed a few more, sorta.


 

The Masters continuing existense has relied upon non-timelordy unorthodox methods for about the last 3 regenerations iirc.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2008)

strung_out said:


> in some rare cases (eg The Master) its been possible to have more than 12 regenerations.


 
And those additional ones were granted by the Time Cahncil, now all presumably unavailable for deus ex machina stuff.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 10, 2008)

An almost good story let down by a clunky script and more Martha Jones uber-ham


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 10, 2008)

cesare said:


> Is she Peter Davison's daughter irl? (I'm so useless with this sorta stuff).
> 
> She reminds me of Emma Bunton


 
Yup, Davison is actually called Moffett, but changed his name in that sinister way that actors do for tax or Equity reasons.


----------



## wishface (May 10, 2008)

That was...strange.


----------



## Groucho (May 10, 2008)

cesare said:


> Is she Peter Davison's daughter irl? (I'm so useless with this sorta stuff).
> 
> ..



She is and her hair is dyed red now.


----------



## strung out (May 10, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> And those additional ones were granted by the Time Cahncil, now all presumably unavailable for deus ex machina stuff.


he's also been able to possess the bodies of various people such as Tremas and Eric Roberts character in the TV movie in order to prolong his life (strictly speaking not a regeneration, but same kind of thing, nonetheless)


----------



## DotCommunist (May 10, 2008)

strung_out said:


> he's also been able to possess the bodies of various people such as Tremas and Eric Roberts character in the TV movie in order to prolong his life (strictly speaking not a regeneration, but same kind of thing, nonetheless)


 

Does anyone believe we've seen the last of the MAsater? there was that thing with the ring...


----------



## cesare (May 10, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Yup, Davison is actually called Moffett, but changed his name in that sinister way that actors do for tax or Equity reasons.




Heheh 

She's got that proper mischief look though, a bit like Nadia Sawalha. I quite like her, I reckon she's gonna be fucking things up left right and centre, with the Doctor having to keep rescuing her but she ends up rescuing him etc etc as an ongoing theme.

Till she becomes the Doctor once she's matured enough and that.


----------



## cesare (May 10, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Does anyone believe we've seen the last of the MAsater? there was that thing with the ring...



It would be cruel and unusual if he didn't come back.

I reckon this Jenny lass is gonna be subjected to his evil machinations


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 10, 2008)

cesare said:


> Heheh
> 
> She's got that proper mischief look though, a bit like Nadia Sawalha. I quite like her, I reckon she's gonna be fucking things up left right and centre, with the Doctor having to keep rescuing her but she ends up rescuing him etc etc as an ongoing theme.



Yeah, I reckon she'll be a recurring character, giving the poor Doctor a whole load of dad angst.


----------



## 8ball (May 10, 2008)

Handy that the war drones get cloned into their makeup too.

Useful war technology, that.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (May 10, 2008)

8ball said:


> Handy that the war drones get cloned into their makeup too.
> 
> Useful war technology, that.



It was intended to generate colonists, not soldiers.


----------



## 8ball (May 10, 2008)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> It was intended to generate colonists, not soldiers.



That would explain the make-up then.


----------



## Iguana (May 10, 2008)

Thought that was pretty pants, and Freema's "acting" was particularly appalling.  The bit where her fish buddy died was the worst crying I've ever seen.


----------



## Detroit City (May 10, 2008)

I saw that Ood episode last nite, it was OK.  I like that new redhead girl....she's much better than the black lady but not as good as Rose.


----------



## 8ball (May 10, 2008)

Iguana said:


> Thought that was pretty pants, and Freema's "acting" was particularly appalling.  The bit where her fish buddy died was the worst crying I've ever seen.



Don't remind me.


----------



## Iguana (May 10, 2008)

8ball said:


> Don't remind me.



Neigh-hhhh heh heh heh ehe!  Nnneeiighhhhh heh heh heh heh!*




*Freema "crying."


----------



## joustmaster (May 10, 2008)

why wont Tate just give up being on tv


----------



## wishface (May 11, 2008)

Just regenerate Tenant; his time is done IMO.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 11, 2008)

Nah could do with one series not ending with one of the main characters leaving for once, though i think i am getting tired of tennant. Also the next doctor has to have like a slightly different personality, i remember in the old doctor who when the doctor got regenerated they were all different, these last two have been exactly the same.


----------



## spanglechick (May 11, 2008)

wishface said:


> Just regenerate Tenant; his time is done IMO.



nooooo - he is teh hawtness.

doctor who confidential had loads of clips from across his series.  it's *all* about the hair...


----------



## Detroit City (May 11, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Nah could do with one series not ending with one of the main characters leaving for once, though i think i am getting tired of tennant.


yea he's shite


----------



## spanglechick (May 11, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Nah could do with one series not ending with one of the main characters leaving for once, though i think i am getting tired of tennant. Also the next doctor has to have like a slightly different personality, i remember in the old doctor who when the doctor got regenerated they were all different, these last two have been exactly the same.



not true!

ecclestone was utterly bleak and miserable - suitable because of the timelord genocide and because ecclestone does 'grim' beautifully.  but tennant's doctor is capricious and playful on one hand, while being vindictive and cruel the next.  Plus, he's proper hot. (did i mention that before, at all?)


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 11, 2008)

Nah eccleston was exactly the same, always so lively just like tennant, fast talking, always doing the same things. I think you just like tennant more cause he's 'hot' and eccleston isn't.


----------



## spanglechick (May 11, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Nah eccleston was exactly the same, always so lively just like tennant, fast talking, always doing the same things. I think you just like tennant more cause he's 'hot' and eccleston isn't.



but i adore ecclestone as an actor.  which is very important for me.  ecclestone's doctor was definately more dour.  when was he ever frivolous?

(I swear, every word i type looks like it's spelled wrongly this morning.  frivolous?  frivilous? frivelous???  no  first one must be right - i must just have worn my eyes out...)


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 11, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> but i adore ecclestone as an actor.  which is very important for me.  ecclestone's doctor was definately more dour.  when was he ever frivolous?



I dunno, they just seem the same to me!



spanglechick said:


> (I swear, every word i type looks like it's spelled wrongly this morning.  frivolous?  frivilous? frivelous???  no  first one must be right - i must just have worn my eyes out...)



lol i get that to sometimes, but on my comp there's red lines under the words that are incorrect, and it seems the first one you typed was right!


----------



## danny la rouge (May 11, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Nah eccleston was exactly the same, always so lively just like tennant, fast talking, always doing the same things. I think you just like tennant more cause he's 'hot' and eccleston isn't.


I don't fancy either of them, and I can't see this supposed similarity.  They are completely different.  Ecclescake was more serious.  He had manic episodes, but definitely more taciturn, more moody.  Tennant is bouncy and child-like.  

As for getting rid of Tennant, I don't think that's fair: this series has run out of steam, but it's the writing, not him.  That said, if I was him I'd probably want to leave now, while the job offers are still coming in.  I still think he's a great Doctor, better than any of the old school.




			
				cesare said:
			
		

> Acksherly, thinking about it ... they'll prolly have to do some sort of episode with him transferring all his memories and that into her before he kicks it and she takes over.


His life force would go into the Tardis, and transfer info about being a Time Lord (surely they can't call her a Time Lady?) to her, similar to the way the translation thingy works.


----------



## spanglechick (May 11, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> As for getting rid of Tennant, I don't think that's fair: this series has run out of steam, but it's the writing, not him.  That said, if I was him I'd probably want to leave now, while the job offers are still coming in.  I still think he's a great Doctor, better than any of the old school.



tennant was a well-regarded actor approaching the apex of his career when he took the part.  by objective measures it was a bad career move... but he's a fan, so...

i hope it hasn't damaged his career too much (he's done some fab shakespeare - the stage needs people like him) but he'd be wise not to stay too long.  

If they want someone to stick around for ages, they're going to have to chose someone with a lower profile, or someone older on theri way down.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 11, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> i hope it hasn't damaged his career too much (he's done some fab shakespeare - the stage needs people like him) but he'd be wise not to stay too long.


Yup.  I'd agree.


----------



## spanglechick (May 11, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Yup.  I'd agree.



i think, in the past, th actors weren't so talented.  i mean, they were good - but ecclestone and tennant are seriously of the best of their generations...  tis like casting laurence olivier as james bond, iyswim.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 11, 2008)

wonders what everyone is talking about didn't you expect that him having a daughter for her own soon to come no doubt spin off series was going to be when Dr Who jumped the shark...

I'm really un certain as to why you expect anything else...


----------



## spanglechick (May 11, 2008)

i thought that. mebbe they'll put her in torchwood.  not that i've seen it, but i understand it's floundering a bit.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 11, 2008)

it's alrght it's just not dr who which then makes captain jack and martha and the other no hopers look like wooden flalling actors ... oh wait...


----------



## wishface (May 11, 2008)

I think it likley that he is leaving at the end of this season. They are building up to something as usual, but the theme of birth has been prevalent throughout. Sounds like regeneration to me.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 11, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I don't fancy either of them, and I can't see this supposed similarity.  They are completely different.  Ecclescake was more serious.  He had manic episodes, but definitely more taciturn, more moody.  Tennant is bouncy and child-like.



Nah, every now n then ive been watching the eccleston episodes on uk gold again, and he just seems like the same character. He might've been slightly different, but overall seems the same to me



danny la rouge said:


> As for getting rid of Tennant, I don't think that's fair: this series has run out of steam, but it's the writing, not him.  That said, if I was him I'd probably want to leave now, while the job offers are still coming in.  I still think he's a great Doctor, better than any of the old school.
> 
> .



True, im just really starting to tire of doctor who cause as you said its run out of steam, and i'm just looking for a big change really. But then it would just be the same shit just with a different actor if russell doesn't leave.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 11, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Nah, every now n then ive been watching the eccleston episodes on uk gold again, and he just seems like the same character. He might've been slightly different, but overall seems the same to me.


We have all the Ecclescake and Tennant DVDs, and my kids watch them all the time.  Personally, I think the two are very different.  I can't see how you can see no difference, but I suppose we all see things differently.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 11, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> We have all the Ecclescake and Tennant DVDs, and my kids watch them all the time.  Personally, I think the two are very different.  I can't see how you can see no difference, but I suppose we all see things differently.



Its just the fast talking, liveliness that gets me. Its cause of the way russell writes the show.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 11, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Its cause of the way russell writes the show.


Ah, here we're back to the writing having gone stale.  That's definitely the problem, as far as I can see.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2008)

Martha's crying was the shows low point. She cannot bloody act!


----------



## spanglechick (May 11, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Martha's crying was the shows low point. She cannot bloody act!



totally.  it's scandalous.  she acts like a kid in a school play.

there are so many actresses in england.  sexy, young, black - if that was deliberate - *talented* actresses.  there's no flipping excuse.  and if she did pull off something for the screen tests, there's certainly no excuse now they have a whole series of evidence of her chronic inability. i've done the whole casting thing, i've worked in tv.  i just don't get it.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> totally.  it's scandalous.  she acts like a kid in a school play.
> 
> there are so many actresses in england.  sexy, young, black - if that was deliberate - *talented* actresses.  there's no flipping excuse.  and if she did pull off something for the screen tests, there's certainly no excuse now they have a whole series of evidence of her chronic inability. i've done the whole casting thing, i've worked in tv.  i just don't get it.





sod knows. Nepotism perhaps?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 11, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Martha's crying was the shows low point. She cannot bloody act!


It was a harrowing scene, though.


----------



## Firky (May 11, 2008)

spanglechick as the next dr's assistant, boshing across the universe off her face.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 11, 2008)

strung_out said:


> no, all the timelords are supposed to have 12 regeneration's (and 13 lives in total) its been stated many times throughout the series. in some rare cases (eg The Master) its been possible to have more than 12 regenerations.



The Master doesn't count because he used other peoples bodies and Who wouldn't do that. 


Humm, a little look into the matter reveals that there are massive inconsistencies. Tom Baker at one point show four regeneration's pre Hartnel but Davidson says he has used four of 12. In the Five Doctors the time lords offer the master a new cycle of regeneration's. I guess that now all the time lords are dead Mr Who can do whatever the hell he likes. 

He had a granddaughter at one point, where the hell did she come from? I was hoping this daughter of his would be known of by the Doctor though having a daughter, dying at some point in time and sending her daughter (his granddaughter) back to him at some point. The Doctor would know of his granddaughter but not the daughter until he came across her last week. 

Well that's not the case so boooooo.


----------



## Vash (May 11, 2008)

How did Martha know that there was no sign of regeneration shes never seen one before?  There was no point having Marta in that episdoe and I hope thats her gone for good now, theres no reason to bring her back after this.

I was sure Jenny was dead and was ready to post a lot of venom about it but its a shame they couldn't have had her in from the 1st episode and had her as a companion instead of Tate.

Why didn't the Doctor cremate Jenny like he did the Master?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> The Master doesn't count because he used other peoples bodies and Who wouldn't do that.
> 
> 
> Humm, a little look into the matter reveals that there are massive inconsistencies. Tom Baker at one point show four regeneration's pre Hartnel but Davidson says he has used four of 12. In the Five Doctors the time lords offer the master a new cycle of regeneration's. I guess that now all the time lords are dead Mr Who can do whatever the hell he likes.
> ...



Wasn't the grandfather doc peter cushing and therefor non cannon?


----------



## wishface (May 11, 2008)

Susan was the doctor's granddaughter.


----------



## wishface (May 11, 2008)

Vash said:


> How did Martha know that there was no sign of regeneration shes never seen one before?  There was no point having Marta in that episdoe and I hope thats her gone for good now, theres no reason to bring her back after this.
> 
> I was sure Jenny was dead and was ready to post a lot of venom about it but its a shame they couldn't have had her in from the 1st episode and had her as a companion instead of Tate.
> 
> Why didn't the Doctor cremate Jenny like he did the Master?


Martha saw the Master regenerate, and works for UNIT. If she doesn't know she's a bit dim.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 11, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Wasn't the grandfather doc peter cushing and therefor non cannon?



No, Hartnell.  I think she left him to get married or something, and of course Dr Who never visits. 


The granddaughter was just done much younger for cushing.


----------



## spanglechick (May 11, 2008)

firky said:


> spanglechick as the next dr's assistant, boshing across the universe off her face.



yay.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 11, 2008)

wishface said:


> Susan was the doctor's granddaughter.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Foreman


----------



## Vash (May 11, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Susan_Foreman



Thats a frightening long Wikipedia entry for an obsure 60's sci-fi character.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 11, 2008)

Vash said:


> Thats a frightening long Wikipedia entry for an obsure 60's sci-fi character.


  I know!

(Mind you, we can't talk, we're contributors to a 27-page thread on Doctor Who!)


----------



## wishface (May 11, 2008)

I refuse to be contradicted by Wikipedia (adn i can't be arsed to find out if i have been )


----------



## danny la rouge (May 11, 2008)

wishface said:


> I refuse to be contradicted by Wikipedia (adn i can't be arsed to find out if i have been )


  Well, we'll just leave it at that, shall we?


----------



## liampreston (May 11, 2008)

I suspect this episode was one of those squashed in and rushed - the cheap running down corridors was a sign of it, although this did have a cute Tom Baker feel to it


----------



## yardbird (May 11, 2008)

firky said:


> spanglechick as the next dr's assistant, boshing across the universe off her face.



This is such an appealing thought!

Eat your heart out Martha Jones!


----------



## emanymton (May 11, 2008)

Silly question but if the war had only been going on for seven days why was the general so old?


----------



## zoooo (May 11, 2008)

He had a great head of hair.

I reckon he was just reeeally stressed.


----------



## Vash (May 11, 2008)

emanymton said:


> Silly question but if the war had only been going on for seven days why was the general so old?



He was one of the orginal colonists he knew the truth about the war and hadn't been createf by the breeding machine.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (May 11, 2008)

So she's Peter Davidsons RL daughter... Nepotism works on so many levels - for she truely is the Doctors Daughter. Canon Change + Spin Off alert.. more of the RTD legacy...


----------



## Psychonaut (May 11, 2008)

Did anyone else notice that the whole scenario had more than a passing resemblence to certain multiplayer FPS games?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 11, 2008)

They seem to be a bit short on guns in the BBC prop department too. Every alien civilisation seems to have modern-day rifles, and for heaven's sake, even Captain Jack's old Webley turned up in this one! They don't even glue on any extra bits.


----------



## CNT36 (May 11, 2008)

wishface said:


> Martha saw the Master regenerate, and works for UNIT. If she doesn't know she's a bit dim.



No she didn't. Before you start calling people dim get your facts right.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 11, 2008)

Hmmm, a distinctly average episode...

Methinks they put the daughter character in there as a simple way of being able to carry on when he runs out of regenerations.


----------



## zoooo (May 11, 2008)

I really enjoyed that episode!

Although the Hath sinking into the quicksand looked ridiculously comical.
Still, it felt like proper old Dr Who. Cheap looking and filmed in a quarry.
Warmed me cockles.

And Tennant's acting was awesome.


----------



## wishface (May 12, 2008)

CNT36 said:


> No she didn't. Before you start calling people dim get your facts right.


Are you getting uppity because I said Martha JOnes, _a fictional character, _must be dim for not knowing the doctor regenerates?


----------



## gnoriac (May 12, 2008)

I'm sure they nicked Jenny's cartwheeling through the laser beams from some film or other, but I can't think which. Anyone?


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (May 12, 2008)

Resident Evil...


----------



## llantwit (May 12, 2008)

Also Entrapment, with Zeta Jones and Sean Connery.
Terrible film.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 12, 2008)

But of a dull episode to be honest - okay but nothing special, felt the same about Jenny as well. Didn't think she was a brilliant actress. alright but...


----------



## belboid (May 12, 2008)

whole chunks seemed to be 'inspired byh' hitchikers, a couple of lines of dialogue and the background music, not to mention the 'accident with a condom and a time machine' kinda idea.  lack of props and supporting cast, aside, that was a great episiode.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 12, 2008)

and numerious japanese hong kong martail arts films charlies angels as well being the biggest film it was in...


----------



## CNT36 (May 12, 2008)

wishface said:


> Are you getting uppity because I said Martha JOnes, _a fictional character, _must be dim for not knowing the doctor regenerates?



Yeah pretty much. It was either you or the people who raise the how many regenerations question every few pages. I stand by my decision.


----------



## seeformiles (May 13, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> That episode didn't make a lot of sense to me, but the twist was clever and the daughter was as cute as a button. Not sure about the westcountry warlord!



Watched the repeat on Sunday night - she can't act for toffee and was really annoying - made Catherine Tate's acting look good though. If I had my way, both Donna and Jenny would drown in that pit along with the fish fella and Martha would return to the Tardis for an extended period - my own shallow reason being that she's easier on the eye than the other 2! (never mind her acting )


----------



## Gromit (May 13, 2008)

A Dr Who episode kids might like but as an adult I thought was ridiculous and rubbish on so many levels. 

They kill a fish by drowning him? Was that meant to be ironic cause it was just comical. I was waiting for him to pop back up and say "its alright I'm a fish silly, look backstroke, butterfly, crawl I can do them all"


----------



## danny la rouge (May 13, 2008)

Marius said:


> They kill a fish by drowning him? Was that meant to be ironic cause it was just comical. I was waiting for him to pop back up and say "its alright I'm a fish silly, look backstroke, butterfly, crawl I can do them all"


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2008)

pathetic bunch of whingers.

watched it again last night, and it was even better than the first time. Proper, old-fashioned Doctor Who. A bit rubbish in places, but some cracking scripting and sometimes even ace acting.  And lots of (silent) running. Well proper.  

Now, stop your whinging and just wenjoy it!


----------



## Stigmata (May 13, 2008)

seeformiles said:


> If I had my way, both Donna and Jenny would drown in that pit along with the fish fella and Martha would return to the Tardis for an extended period - my own shallow reason being that she's easier on the eye than the other 2! (never mind her acting )



Works for me.


----------



## gsv (May 13, 2008)

OK but a bit weak. The premise was very Trek TOS.
The Jenny twist was just annoying. Oh look! Another continuity character!

otoh, all this bitching because it didn't meet what have become rather high standards!

GS(v)


----------



## Pingu (May 13, 2008)

belboid said:


> pathetic bunch of whingers.
> 
> watched it again last night, and it was even better than the first time. *Proper, old-fashioned Doctor Who*. A bit rubbish in places, but some cracking scripting and sometimes even ace acting. And lots of (silent) running. Well proper.
> 
> Now, stop your whinging and just wenjoy it!


 
bingo!

thats why i liked it. non of the moody shit.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 13, 2008)

gsv said:


> otoh, all this bitching because it didn't meet what have become rather high standards!
> 
> GS(v)



standards which in reality it rarely meets it's still a kids program... with an adult audience...


----------



## zoooo (May 13, 2008)

It's a family show, not a kid's one. Not to be too pedantic, but there is a difference.



belboid said:


> pathetic bunch of whingers.
> 
> watched it again last night, and it was even better than the first time. Proper, old-fashioned Doctor Who. A bit rubbish in places, but some cracking scripting and sometimes even ace acting.  And lots of (silent) running. Well proper.
> 
> Now, stop your whinging and just wenjoy it!



Yay!! 
I thought it was brilliant.


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2008)

Marius said:


> A Dr Who episode kids might like but as an adult I thought was ridiculous and rubbish on so many levels.
> 
> They kill a fish by drowning him? Was that meant to be ironic cause it was just comical. I was waiting for him to pop back up and say "its alright I'm a fish silly, look backstroke, butterfly, crawl I can do them all"



A – fish can drown
B – it wasn’t in water, it was in a quicksand type substance
C – who knows what that substance was made up of – something that rots fish skin perhaps?
D – they weren’t ‘fish’ anyway, they were half fish.

But, apart from that - good point!


----------



## Gromit (May 13, 2008)

Yeah I know it was quicksand (well beeb floaty rocks on water) but thought is still there.  

Lets not forget Martha saying come on fish boy its just the outside. Five mins later he's dead. Oops. 
Mental note, dont listen to Martha when she says ah you wimp come on.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 13, 2008)

gsv said:


> The premise was very Trek TOS.


Point of Information, please: what is Trek TOS?


----------



## belboid (May 13, 2008)

Marius said:


> Yeah I know it was quicksand (well beeb floaty rocks on water) but thought is still there.
> 
> Lets not forget Martha saying come on fish boy its just the outside. Five mins later he's dead. Oops.
> Mental note, dont listen to Martha when she says ah you wimp come on.



now that's a fair point - albeit one (kinda) accepted by Martha herself - she can't bare to get things that badly wrong again and again, hence she wants to go home, not keep travelling with the Doc


----------



## 8den (May 13, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Point of Information, please: what is Trek TOS?



The Original Series, innit? Captain Kirk.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 13, 2008)

8den said:


> The Original Series, innit? Captain Kirk.


Oh, Star Trek!  Why not just say Star Trek, then?


----------



## 8den (May 13, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, Star Trek!  Why not just say Star Trek, then?



Well the rest of them had a tag after them, except for Enterprise which was just shit.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 13, 2008)

8den said:


> Well the rest of them had a tag after them, except for Enterprise which was just shit.


You mean the spins-offs?If somebody says Star Trek to me, I take it to mean Spock and Kirk.  The spins-offs had other names, I believe (The Next Generation etc).  I didn't watch those.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (May 13, 2008)

I was disapointed by Martha's slightly psycho ability to shrug off the feeling of guilt for killing Nemo off so quickly.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (May 13, 2008)

Re: the fish thing. Do the Dr Who writers not like Martha? She's always being dunked in goo. She is crap though, so its quite satisfying. I actually think Tate is a pretty good assistant, I don't know why everyone moans about her. She's funny! I was a little dissapointed that Dr WHo didn't move Peter Capaldi and his Roman family into the Tardis for a bit. It would have been awesome if they got to the end of an episode and instead of the usual Deus Ex Machina reprogramming everything solution the day was solved with a traditional ROman solutions - such as dispatching the enemy with a short sword or asp or cooking up a round of badgers noses. But generally I think the last episode was a good one all in all. Especially thanks to the crappy sets, rubbish guns and futuristic clone general from Somerset.


----------



## gnoriac (May 13, 2008)

belboid said:


> D – they weren’t ‘fish’ anyway, they were *half fish*.








Another idea they nicked.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 13, 2008)

I hope they bring Jenny back as a companion; you'd need a "down-to-earth-normal-human" companion too, of course, because New Who likes having characters who witter on about mortgages and reality TV. So, for a bit of a change from the last lot of female companions, add an ordinary bloke into the mix, and have him cop off with Jenny. Because the Doctor as an overprotective dad would be hilarious: "If you touch one hair on my daughter's head I will _fucking kill you_."


----------



## Bob_the_lost (May 13, 2008)

I've only just realised how much i liked the use of a wind up mouse btw. That was excellent Dr Who fare imo.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (May 13, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I've only just realised how much i liked the use of a wind up mouse btw. That was excellent Dr Who fare imo.



Yeah I'd forgotten that, it was a nice touch.


----------



## Stigmata (May 13, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I was disapointed by Martha's slightly psycho ability to shrug off the feeling of guilt for killing Nemo off so quickly.



Yeah, but she had that hardcore John Connor-type year as a rebel leader under the Master, so she's probably made of sterner stuff.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 13, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Yeah, but she had that hardcore John Connor-type year as a rebel leader under the Master, so she's probably made of sterner stuff.


I've given this quite a lot of thought.  Yes, on the one hand she made a mistake, and was responsible for the chain of events which led to her friend's death.  A friend who was scared of the planet surface, and who drowned in quick-rocks saving her.  She was thrown into despair, but a despair soon shrugged off when she was quipping with the Doctor and Donna.  Was that despair too shallow? Was it for her friend, or for herself, for what she's become?  As a medical person, she has had to learn not to become attached.  Her decisions in that arena will mean life and death, too, and she must not lose the bottle to make them.

On the other hand, I fancy her, so it's OK.


----------



## emanymton (May 13, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I've given this too much thought.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 13, 2008)

<shakes head as another good gag is missed by slapstick loons>


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 13, 2008)

Anyone else think that by ruthlessly examining every facet of every episode we might actually be diminishing our enjoyment of the show?

Doctor who is (mostly) pretty saccharine stuff not designed to stand up to such rigorous examination, but rather designed to be entertaining to as broad an audience as possible. I suspect that all this recent whovian hand-wringing on u75 was kicked off by the fact that there have been moments in the last three series where doctor who has actually strayed within spitting distance of being proper art. Sadly I fear the show's creators might have set the bar a little too high in the process, and now they have an audience no longer satisfied by the sheer entertainment value of the thing (which remains, IMO, largely undiminished in this new series) that was supposed to be the whole point in the first place. 

Still, bring back Steven Moffat and whoever wrote the Daleks in New York one please 

And could Martha Jones _please_ F.O.A.D.


----------



## Detroit City (May 13, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> And could Martha Jones _please_ F.O.A.D.



yeah


----------



## Stigmata (May 13, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Anyone else think that by ruthlessly examining every facet of every episode we might actually be diminishing our enjoyment of the show?
> 
> Doctor who is (mostly) pretty saccharine stuff not designed to stand up to such rigorous examination, but rather designed to be entertaining to as broad an audience as possible. I suspect that all this recent whovian hand-wringing on u75 was kicked off by the fact that there have been moments in the last three series where doctor who has actually strayed within spitting distance of being proper art. Sadly I fear the show's creators might have set the bar a little too high in the process, and now they have an audience no longer satisfied by the sheer entertainment value of the thing (which remains, IMO, largely undiminished in this new series) that was supposed to be the whole point in the first place.
> 
> ...



You were doing so well until the end there.


----------



## Gromit (May 13, 2008)

New Series 1 raised the bar which was never equalled again. 
Eccleston made Who a drama. Tennant made it a space soap opera.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 13, 2008)

Marius said:


> New Series 1 raised the bar which was never equalled again.
> Eccleston made Who a drama. Tennant made it a space soap opera.


Again, to be fair, the writers did both.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 13, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Anyone else think that by ruthlessly examining every facet of every episode we might actually be diminishing our enjoyment of the show?
> 
> Doctor who is (mostly) pretty saccharine stuff not designed to stand up to such rigorous examination, but rather designed to be entertaining to as broad an audience as possible. I suspect that all this recent whovian hand-wringing on u75 was kicked off by the fact that there have been moments in the last three series where doctor who has actually strayed within spitting distance of being proper art. Sadly I fear the show's creators might have set the bar a little too high in the process, and now they have an audience no longer satisfied by the sheer entertainment value of the thing (which remains, IMO, largely undiminished in this new series) that was supposed to be the whole point in the first place.
> 
> ...




I don't know about the rest of the posters, but I got me subscription to some who mag when I was twelve, and went on to watch every single cannon episode plus the peter cushing films and numerous who books.

Hence objective judgement of the show while entertaining, can never diminish who for me. I still remember the Hero who disdained guns and offered vicious aliens a jellybaby. The Doctor is and always was free of that  strand of might-is-right  thinking that pervades most heroic fiction. His anarchic meddling always made me happy. That plus the endless corridor-running, the yo-yo's, UNIT etc. its just win.


Re: MArtha. I've come to the conclusion that she can act but needs to not overact so much. The bit where she cried would have worked fine if she'd limited herself to that initial sob. The unconvincing crying that followed the initial sob ruined the scene.


----------



## T & P (May 13, 2008)

Marius said:


> New Series 1 raised the bar which was never equalled again.
> Eccleston made Who a drama. Tennant made it a space soap opera.


 I don't think it's much to do with who plays the Doctor myself. Both are capable actors. What lets them down is bad scripts.

Most of the Eccleston eps were on reflection probably better. But last season with Tennant as the Doctor had what were IMO the very best episodes since the series was revived: the two-parter based in 1914 when the Doctor hides in a human body, and the one about the statues that come get you when you blink or break eye contact.

My favourite Eccleston ep was the two-parter based in London during WWII- the gas mask one. Come to think of it, all my favourite eps were based in the past and had little CGI. I look forward to this week's ep, which involves Agatha Christie.


----------



## Gromit (May 14, 2008)

Writers can only work within the boundaries of their actors capeabilities. Are forced to stick to their actors strengths as much as possible.    

Eccleston could do serious really well with a bit of cheeky chappie thrown in. 
Tennant does cheeky chappy really well but thats all he is really capable of so really thats all we get I'm sorry to say.


----------



## zoooo (May 14, 2008)

I can't believe some people don't like Tennant's more serious episodes. Or somehow have forgotten them.

He is AMAZING at the serious storylines.

I know it's a matter of opinion, but still...

Anyway, Moffatt's two parter is coming up right after Agatha Christie, for those that are interested.


----------



## Detroit City (May 14, 2008)

zoooo said:


> He is AMAZING at the serious storylines.


his constant wide opened eyes make him look scared all the time...

he's worthless as far as i'm concerned


----------



## Gromit (May 14, 2008)

No he isn't amazing at the serious plots. When it comes to serious plots a Billy Bass Novelty Singing Fish can out act him. Thats why those episodes are so very forgetable.


----------



## zoooo (May 14, 2008)

In your opinion.
Which is of course, wrong.


----------



## Stigmata (May 14, 2008)

Marius said:


> Eccleston could do serious really well with a bit of cheeky chappie thrown in.
> Tennant does cheeky chappy really well but thats all he is really capable of so really thats all we get I'm sorry to say.



I thought that when Eccleston tried to be lighthearted he just came across as a bit deranged. I don't think that was the effect they were going for.


----------



## zoooo (May 14, 2008)

Eccleston's a good actor. I just never bought him as the Doctor. I'm glad he left.

Did I hear he wants to do the remake of The Prisoner now?


----------



## Gromit (May 14, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> I thought that when Eccleston tried to be lighthearted he just came across as a bit deranged. I don't think that was the effect they were going for.



Maybe not but I liked the idea of the doctor being a bit deranged. Too much time by yourself with genocide demons sat on your shoulder will do that to a humanoid. 

He has had companions now for a while though and so his sanity has improved somewhat thanks to them. Booo.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2008)

zoooo said:


> Eccleston's a good actor. I just never bought him as the Doctor. I'm glad he left.


Really?  I thought he was great.  Ecclescake is my second favourite Doctor, after Ten Inch.


----------



## belboid (May 14, 2008)

Marius said:


> No he isn't amazing at the serious plots. When it comes to serious plots a Billy Bass Novelty Singing Fish can out act him. Thats why those episodes are so very forgetable.



what complete and utter bollocks


----------



## Lisarocket (May 14, 2008)

zoooo said:


> Eccleston's a good actor. I just never bought him as the Doctor. I'm glad he left.
> 
> Did I hear he wants to do the remake of The Prisoner now?



Whenever i hear the phrase 'remake of The Prisoner' i think Nooooooooo! 
But Eccleston WOULD be a good No. 6

Oh and please stop all the Tennant bashing on the thread. I think he's a great Doctor


----------



## Gromit (May 14, 2008)

Lisarocket said:


> Whenever i hear the phrase 'remake of The Prisoner' i think Nooooooooo!
> But Eccleston WOULD be a good No. 6
> 
> Oh and please stop all the Tennant bashing on the thread. I think he's a great Doctor



You fancy him don't you. Loads of female fans think he can do no wrong as the doctor as they are in my opinion thinking with their hormones. 

I think he was great as Cassanova but there are people who would make a better job of being the doctor.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (May 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Anyone else think that by ruthlessly examining every facet of every episode we might actually be diminishing our enjoyment of the show?



what the flip are you talking about??!!


----------



## Lisarocket (May 14, 2008)

Marius said:


> You fancy him don't you. Loads of female fans think he can do no wrong as the doctor as they are in my opinion thinking with their hormones.
> 
> I think he was great as Cassanova but there are people who would make a better job of being the doctor.



I liked him as Casanova too. He was an odd choice as Casanova as he's a bit scrawny and not the type of bloke you think of when you imagine a Casanova, so that's a testament to his acting ability imho.

Yes i do fancy him a bit, but i don't think with my hormones as you put it. I'm adult enough to appreciate someone's acting ability and separate it from the fact i think they're attractive 

Don't think i really fancied him at all till i saw him presenting the Friday Night Project- that was him, not The Doctor...


----------



## Lisarocket (May 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Anyone else think that by ruthlessly examining every facet of every episode we might actually be diminishing our enjoyment of the show?



Yes.


----------



## 8ball (May 14, 2008)

I think if someone at the BBC ruthlessly examined every facet of every episode they might end up with a better show.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Still, bring back [...] whoever wrote the Daleks in New York one please


They did. She wrote the Sontaran two-parter a couple of weeks ago.

And Moffat's back the week after next.


----------



## andy2002 (May 14, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> And Moffat's back the week after next.



Isn't it taking a break for Eurovision on the 24th again? If so Moffat's will be pushed back to the 31st...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> They did. She wrote the Sontaran two-parter a couple of weeks ago.
> 
> * And Moffat's back the week after next*.


----------



## Annierak (May 14, 2008)

Oh who cares? It's not the same without Tom Baker or John Pertwee!


----------



## Detroit City (May 14, 2008)

Annierak said:


> Tom Baker



did you know he actually married one of his "assistants"?  i don't think it lasted long


----------



## Annierak (May 14, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> did you know he actually married one of his "assistants"?  i don't think it lasted long


No i didn't know that, i've been too busy getting a life


----------



## Detroit City (May 14, 2008)

Annierak said:


> No i didn't know that, i've been too busy getting a life



it was one of the two girls who played Romana.....can't remember which one though


----------



## Annierak (May 14, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> it was one of the two girls who played Romana.....can't remember which one though


Thanks, i'll sleep tonight knowing that


----------



## Gromit (May 14, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> did you know he actually married one of his "assistants"?  i don't think it lasted long



Was it K9? The forbidden love that could never last.


----------



## Gromit (May 14, 2008)

Lisarocket said:


> I liked him as Casanova too. He was an odd choice as Casanova as he's a bit scrawny and not the type of bloke you think of when you imagine a Casanova, so that's a testament to his acting ability imho.
> 
> Yes i do fancy him a bit, but i don't think with my hormones as you put it. I'm adult enough to appreciate someone's acting ability and separate it from the fact i think they're attractive
> 
> Don't think i really fancied him at all till i saw him presenting the Friday Night Project- that was him, not The Doctor...



Well you would say that. People who are thinking with their hormones never think that they are. 
Being adult has nothing to do with it. 65 yr olds can be dumb as stumps when they fancy someone just as much as teenagers can.


----------



## Stigmata (May 14, 2008)

I'm a a straight male and I think he's alright. Although I concede my judgement of Freema Agyeman maybe clouded slightly.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> Isn't it taking a break for Eurovision on the 24th again? If so Moffat's will be pushed back to the 31st...




It'd better not or I'll hate europe, the bbc and Wogan.


----------



## zoooo (May 14, 2008)

You can't hate Wogan!


----------



## Stigmata (May 14, 2008)




----------



## zoooo (May 14, 2008)

Oh noooooooooo.

Okay, you've convinced me.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2008)

8ball said:


> I think if someone at the BBC ruthlessly examined every facet of every episode they might end up with a better show.


I think they should read this thread.

Anyone got an email addy we can send it to?


----------



## Detroit City (May 14, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Anyone got an email addy we can send it to?


drwho@bbc.co.uk


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2008)

Cheers DC.


----------



## Detroit City (May 14, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Cheers DC.



actually, i just made that up


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I think they should read this thread.
> 
> Anyone got an email addy we can send it to?




Russel T Davies doesn't really give two-shits what us internet fanboys think mate.


----------



## 8ball (May 14, 2008)

This is hardly a fanboy thread.


----------



## zoooo (May 14, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Russel T Davies doesn't really give two-shits what us internet fanboys think mate.



He is a fanboy.
But yes, what you said is still true.


----------



## PacificOcean (May 14, 2008)

This thread is moderated by:


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Russel T Davies doesn't really give two-shits what us internet fanboys think mate.


I'm not a fanboy.  I'm not interested in the Classic Series.  I think all the Ecclescake/Ten Inch stuff until this series had been fine to great.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm not a fanboy.  I'm not interested in the Classic Series.  I think all the Ecclescake/Ten Inch stuff until this series had been fine to great.




Oh. *crosses DLR from the who-shall-be-spared list*


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> This thread is moderated by:




Get back to soapland King of Blanditude *shakes fist*


----------



## Belushi (May 14, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> This thread is moderated by:



I actually have an uncanny resemblance to the fat comic store guy


----------



## andy2002 (May 14, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> It'd better not or I'll hate europe, the bbc and Wogan.



Yep, it's true. Eurovision's on May 24th, the first installment of Moffat's two-parter is postponed until the following week. At least according to posters on Outpost Gallifrey who contacted the Beeb to ask. Bah!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 14, 2008)

cunting fucksticks.

Why should that godawful celebration of mediocrity presented by an unfunny decrepit wanker who can't decide if he's irish or not should take precedence over the genius of moffat-written Who


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Oh. *crosses DLR from the who-shall-be-spared list*


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2008)

> Eurovision's on May 24th, the first installment of Moffat's two-parter is postponed until the following week.


Oh, perfect.  Corrie tonight, Dr Who next weekend.

Now all we need is fucking international tiddlywinks to postpone Heroes.


----------



## zoooo (May 14, 2008)

Didn't they do exactly the same last year?
Something meant I didn't get my bit of Dr Who for 2 whole weeks, I just can't remember what it was.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 14, 2008)

zoooo said:


> Didn't they do exactly the same last year?
> Something meant I didn't get my bit of Dr Who for 2 whole weeks, I just can't remember what it was.


I seem to remember that, too.

There should be a pay-for channel for shit music.  And people who think it's ironic and post-modern to like it should be sterilised.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (May 15, 2008)

*shada*



Detroit City said:


> did you know he actually married one of his "assistants"?  i don't think it lasted long



Tom Baker married her in reality (the 2nd Romana) but Douglas Adams introduced her to 'I hate god' Richard Dawkins - her current spouse http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalla_Ward


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2008)

The beeb trailer says its on tomorrow regardless of the eurovision nonsense. WAHEY!


----------



## danny la rouge (May 16, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> The beeb trailer says its on tomorrow regardless of the eurovision nonsense. WAHEY!


Eurovision isn't tomorrow; it's next weekend.


----------



## Detroit City (May 16, 2008)

Tonite on SciFi channel at 9pm (about 5 hrs from now) they're showing the episode called The Sontaran Stratagem.

Is it worth watching?


----------



## zoooo (May 16, 2008)

Well, I think so.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Eurovision isn't tomorrow; it's next weekend.




so part two of the moffat story will be delayed. Curses.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 16, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> Tonite on SciFi channel at 9pm (about 5 hrs from now) they're showing the episode called The Sontaran Stratagem.
> 
> Is it worth watching?




YES it's proper old school who. You should enjoy it.


----------



## Detroit City (May 16, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> YES it's proper old school who. You should enjoy it.



ok, i'll skip the pub then and stay home 

going out Sat nite anyways


----------



## Detroit City (May 17, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> YES it's proper old school who. You should enjoy it.



Dr?  It's Martha, I'm bring you back to earth....


----------



## Detroit City (May 17, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> YES it's proper old school who. You should enjoy it.



well you didn't tell me it's a two part episode....the first half was pretty marginal.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 17, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> well you didn't tell me it's a two part episode....the first half was pretty marginal.


SONTAR-HAH


----------



## Psychonaut (May 17, 2008)

Spoiler: Ive been told the series finale will feature..



the return of davros


----------



## DotCommunist (May 17, 2008)

Psychonaut said:


> Spoiler: Ive been told the series finale will feature..
> 
> 
> 
> the return of davros




that would be so awesome


----------



## spanglechick (May 17, 2008)

OK - it's either the socialite, or the scriptwriters have dropped a plum.  No well-brought-up young gel would refer to the 'toilet'.  It's the 'loo', always.

oh - actually, maybe it's the word 'bathroom' they didn't use.  Tch! showing my lack of breeding...


----------



## greenfield (May 17, 2008)

You were right!


----------



## spanglechick (May 17, 2008)

greenfield said:


> You were right!



i was - although rather disappointingly, Donna knew too.


----------



## greenfield (May 17, 2008)

I had no idea....


----------



## moomoo (May 17, 2008)

I was disappointed by that one.   Didn't really enjoy it at all.


----------



## spanglechick (May 17, 2008)

Well I liked that.  Self-contained, mostly sound internal logic, good acting, bit of RTD's trademark sexual fluidity, and a monster that I would have had to hide behind the sofa for.

Also - although there were in jokes etc, there wasn't any heavy reference to some conspiracy-theory overarching story arc.


----------



## wishface (May 17, 2008)

That was utterly bizarre.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 17, 2008)

Solid episode. So why is the Doctor okay with arrows but so prissy about guns?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 17, 2008)

That was ok, bit weird, but ok, next weeks one seems interesting.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 17, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> That was ok, bit weird, but ok, next weeks one seems interesting.


 
It's a Moffat! But not next week. Eurovision takes precedence.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 17, 2008)

Ah crap, fuck eurovision!


----------



## cesare (May 17, 2008)

I thought I was going to enjoy that lots, but I didn't really. I sat and watched it without feeling any need to hide behind the settee even though there was a giant wasp involved.

Oh well. No big deal.


----------



## Groucho (May 17, 2008)

It was ok. The wasp was good but the idea was a little unconvincing.
Still no vampires. 
Time for a scary vampire one


----------



## Iguana (May 17, 2008)

Thought that was incredibly boring.

And the well brought up say "bathroom" it's only those who are trying to rise above their station who say "loo."


----------



## spanglechick (May 17, 2008)

Iguana said:


> Thought that was incredibly boring.
> 
> And the well brought up say "bathroom" it's only those who are trying to rise above their station who say "loo."



nah - 'bathroom' is definitely for the hyacinth bucket types.  File alongside doilies.


----------



## yardbird (May 17, 2008)

Iguana said:


> Thought that was incredibly boring.
> 
> And the well brought up say "bathroom" it's only those who are trying to rise above their station who say "loo."



We've had this one sooo many times

The correct word is - and would have been in Agatha's time - lavatory !


----------



## DotCommunist (May 17, 2008)

How long does it take to get punted up on iplayer?


----------



## moomoo (May 17, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> nah - 'bathroom' is definitely for the hyacinth bucket types.  File alongside doilies.



Aye, the correct term is 'loo'. 

My kids say 'toilet' but they've been dragged up.


----------



## Detroit City (May 17, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> nah - 'bathroom' is definitely for the hyacinth bucket types.


it's Bouquet....


----------



## danny la rouge (May 17, 2008)

I enjoyed it; it was fun.  I like the period ones best, as a rule.


----------



## Stigmata (May 17, 2008)

The next one looks to be the proverbial shizzle.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 17, 2008)

still no fuckin sign of it on Iplayer. I refuse to start drinking untill doctor who is uploaded


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 18, 2008)

I liked that one, probably my favourite of this series so far. The bit at the end with the waspy thing being somehow connected to Christie's life force or some such nonsense was a bit rubbish, seemed like it was thrown in at the last minute to allow the evil murdering wasp monster to do something nice in it's last moments. Still, I'm picking holes again; bar the last five minutes or so it was great


----------



## gnoriac (May 18, 2008)

For me it wasn't just dull it was eminently forgettable. Crap story, loadsa old actors being given licence to mug it up at our expense (Felicity Kendal's still gorgeous though) and the vicar-turning-into-giant-wasp was mildly hilarious.

This series of the Doctor is piss-poor so far.


----------



## T & P (May 18, 2008)

It wasn't fantastic but was the best of this series IMO.

Once again an episode based in the past with little dependance on CGI (other than the creature) turns out to be better than CGI-heavy eps based in the future with too many explosions and spaceships and too little substance.

Incidentally, did anyone else think Catherine Tate actually looks quite good in period costume?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 18, 2008)

Wasn't as bad as some are making it sound, but the acting was making me cringe at times.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 18, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Wasn't as bad as some are making it sound, but the acting was making me cringe at times.


Some of the reactions shots of Donna looked like they'd been shot a million times and they'd just ended up saying "Fuck It, put that one in".

But I still enjoyed it.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 18, 2008)

Wasn't just Tates acting if anything she was the better actor lol.


----------



## gnoriac (May 18, 2008)

T & P said:


> Incidentally, did anyone else think Catherine Tate actually looks quite good in period costume?


Yep, she does. In previous years the producers might've sussed that and kept her in 20s gear.
Ideally though...


----------



## wishface (May 18, 2008)

another story featuring birth and/or a child.

even if it made no fucking sense whatsoever.

Felicity Kendall shags an alien wasp? That's too much for me.


----------



## Limejuice (May 18, 2008)

wishface said:


> another story featuring birth and/or a child.
> 
> even if it made no fucking sense whatsoever.
> 
> Felicity Kendall shags and alien wasp? That's too much for me.



Well, exactly.

You can dress it up as sci-fi by calling the critter a "vespiform". But it's a dud yarn about a bloke who turns into a wasp.

A dreadful bit of nonsense. They completely wasted the Agatha Christie opportunity.


----------



## wishface (May 18, 2008)

All it's become is Tennant mugging to the camera and going 'weeeeeeeell'. 

Time for a change methinks, I don't think my mind can stand anymore of these convoluted and bizzzzzzzzzzzzzzarre plots. Rather the plots are simple but overy dressed up with contrived bollocks. 

Tell a fucking story and turn the fucking music down.

oh my


----------



## _angel_ (May 18, 2008)

wishface said:


> another story featuring birth and/or a child.
> 
> even if it made no fucking sense whatsoever.
> 
> Felicity Kendall shags an alien wasp? That's too much for me.





What crap.


----------



## liampreston (May 18, 2008)

Heh - yeah it was going quite well...then I think the ending was rushed beyond all comprehension. I am worried the "don't step into the shadows" bit from the trailer means we've got another "don't blink" / "are you my mummy" clone....


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 18, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> OK - it's either the socialite, or the scriptwriters have dropped a plum.  No well-brought-up young gel would refer to the 'toilet'.  It's the 'loo', always.
> 
> oh - actually, maybe it's the word 'bathroom' they didn't use.  Tch! showing my lack of breeding...



tbh i doubt that any lady of tha time would even mention it at all they would after all make their excuses and leave one wouldn't talk about ones bodily fucntions in any company as they had just waltzed out of the victorian era of not even acknoledgeing that women blushed ffs...

however i wish all the h8ers would STFU on this thread, it's getting like a geek chorus in here....

oh woe is us it's not what we set exceptionally high stadards of something we have no right to expect those high standards from as it never had them except for soe reason in our rose tinted minds where suddenly it's the equiverlent to floruesent pink pantyhose in the RSA's hamlet...

grow up...


----------



## _angel_ (May 18, 2008)

^^^ It's a thread about Dr Who on a discussion site, Garf. So people are discussing it.

It was a load of rubbish last night.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 18, 2008)

Garf has a fair point. It's a children's programme about a nice alien; perhaps we geeks expect too much.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 18, 2008)

there not discussing it they are whineing like fuckrey that their interpreatation of what should happen down to the geeky nth details hasn't happend and so it must have jumped the shark because in their delulled minds they could make a much better job of it. 

hence the fact that Davis doesn't give two shits about the fans opinions... luckly judging from the noise and whinging coming from here.... 

it's a kids scifi program if you watch it as an adult then you need to be able to take that into account if you cannot prehaps you'd be better off with some more mature scifi aimed at adults...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 18, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Garf has a fair point. It's a children's programme about a nice alien; perhaps we geeks expect too much.



there's nothing wrong with being an adoring fan but really we hate the new star wars and kids like jarjar binks for some unknown reason is it us that's changed or is it that kids today are fuckign stupid little shits who helped ruin the legacy of our childhood and should all die...

I mean really which is the logical way to look at it... 

of course they should die tha bastards....


----------



## Stigmata (May 18, 2008)

"I need something salty!"
"How about this?"
"What's that?"
"Salt!"
"No, too salty!"

Made me chuckle anyway.


----------



## PacificOcean (May 18, 2008)

The wasp bit seemed a bit tacked on to make it more sci-fi as it really didn't make any sense to the plot.

And what was the point of the gay storyline that didn't go anywhere?


----------



## PacificOcean (May 18, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> there not discussing it they are whineing like fuckrey that their interpreatation of what should happen down to the geeky nth details hasn't happend and so it must have jumped the shark because in their delulled minds they could make a much better job of it.
> 
> hence the fact that Davis doesn't give two shits about the fans opinions... luckly judging from the noise and whinging coming from here....
> 
> it's a kids scifi program if you watch it as an adult then you need to be able to take that into account if you cannot prehaps you'd be better off with some more mature scifi aimed at adults...



It's not a "kids" sci-fi.

The BBFC gave the Ood episode a 12.

It's Saturday night nonsense for the whole family.  Otherwise why not cut the budget and put it on CBBC?


----------



## moomoo (May 18, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Garf has a fair point. It's a children's programme about a nice alien; perhaps we geeks expect too much.




Sure, and normally I'm it's biggest fan but last nights offering left me flat. 

Still, I'm sure the next one will be great.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (May 18, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> It's not a "kids" sci-fi.
> 
> The BBFC gave the Ood episode a 12.
> 
> It's Saturday night nonsense for the whole family.  Otherwise why not cut the budget and put it on CBBC?



12 being a adult these days...


----------



## PacificOcean (May 18, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> 12 being a adult these days...



Yes, but it had a gory enough moment to warrent a 12 rather than a U or PG.

Have you seen a 12 film lately?  Swearing, violence, tourture and so on.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 18, 2008)

wishface said:


> All it's become is Tennant mugging to the camera and going 'weeeeeeeell'.
> 
> Time for a change methinks, I don't think my mind can stand anymore of these convoluted and bizzzzzzzzzzzzzzarre plots. Rather the plots are simple but overy dressed up with contrived bollocks.
> 
> ...



Agreed. I admit i thought the story made fuck all sense to yesterday. You're completely right in your first sentence of this post btw.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 18, 2008)

I really enjoyed it, thought it was fun, and I was laughing my head off at the 'detox' give us a clue game.


----------



## alef (May 18, 2008)

Doctor Who is a bit torturous in that at its best it is one of the best British dramas of recent years. As others have mentioned, "Empty Child", "Human Nature" and "Blink" were absolutely superb. 

So when we get forgettable episodes with nonsense stories and silly CGI monsters we tend to despair. The recent Sontaran and Ood episodes were better, but agree with the geek chorus that this series isn't doing great so far...


----------



## Pingu (May 18, 2008)

last nights episode was the worst yet imo.

next weeks however could be promising - "keep out of the shadows" reminiscant of "dont blink "... hopefully


----------



## cybertect (May 18, 2008)

wishface said:


> another story featuring birth and/or a child.
> 
> even if it made no fucking sense whatsoever.



As Mrs cybertect has pointed out...

Adipose - children
Ood - clones
Sontarons - clones
Doctor's Daughter - clone/child
Vespiform - children

all causing havoc of one kind or another.

DNA theme for this series?


----------



## Vash (May 18, 2008)

cybertect said:


> As Mrs cybertect has pointed out...
> 
> Adipose - children
> Ood - clones
> ...



It all should have been leading up to the Doctors Daughters and she should have been the main theme of the series, unfortunately the whole 'child' thing seems to be leading up to more fucking Daleks which unless you're five and not old enough to remember the 1st series is getting a bit tired now.


----------



## Balbi (May 18, 2008)

Liked it. Good knockabout fun. One liners, giant wasps and again some man love 

The kiss was much less stupid than the other series'....

And a much welcome return for the assistant trying to speak in the time dialect only to be told 'no, don't do that'...


----------



## DotCommunist (May 18, 2008)

Limejuice said:


> Well, exactly.
> 
> * You can dress it up as sci-fi by calling the critter a "vespiform". But it's a dud yarn about a bloke who turns into a wasp.
> *
> A dreadful bit of nonsense. They completely wasted the Agatha Christie opportunity.



I think you're sort of missing the point of Doctor Who.


----------



## editor (May 18, 2008)

mwgdrwg said:


> I really enjoyed it, thought it was fun, and I was laughing my head off at the 'detox' give us a clue game.


I enjoyed it too. It's a load of fun that is perfect for a Saturday night. Great stuff!


----------



## rapattaque (May 19, 2008)

I like the idea of a woman getting it on with a wasp. I'd never thought about it before.


----------



## 8ball (May 19, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> I like the idea of a woman getting it on with a wasp. I'd never thought about it before.



Male or female wasp?


----------



## Detroit City (May 19, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> I like the idea of a woman getting it on with a wasp. I'd never thought about it before.



you mean a White Anglo Saxon Protestant?   

happens all the time, I would think


----------



## danny la rouge (May 19, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> you mean a White Anglo Saxon Protestant?
> 
> happens all the time, I would think


Really?  ew!


----------



## rapattaque (May 20, 2008)

8ball said:


> Male or female wasp?



Female... Lezzing up with wasps? wahey!


----------



## fogbat (May 20, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> I like the idea of a woman getting it on with a wasp. I'd never thought about it before.



There's an episode of The League of Gentlemen where Pops and one of his sons are browsing some particularly odd jazz mags. 

One of them is called "Women With Insects". I think it might be your thing


----------



## rapattaque (May 20, 2008)

fogbat said:


> There's an episode of The League of Gentlemen where Pops and one of his sons are browsing some particularly odd jazz mags.
> 
> One of them is called "Women With Insects". I think it might be your thing


----------



## Flashman (May 20, 2008)

editor said:


> I enjoyed it too. It's a load of fun that is perfect for a Saturday night. Great stuff!




In a nutshell. 

More of..








..type of thing would be good soon though, I want a proper spooky one!


----------



## secretsquirrel (May 20, 2008)

Limejuice said:


> Well, exactly.
> 
> You can dress it up as sci-fi by calling the critter a "vespiform". But it's a dud yarn about a bloke who turns into a wasp.
> 
> A dreadful bit of nonsense. They completely wasted the Agatha Christie opportunity.



Reminded me of a classic 'Tales of the Unexpected' with Timothy West where he was a beekeeper who ate too much Royal Jelly and started turning into a giant bee. Lots of scenes with his voice changing and starting to go 'zzzzzz' all the time.



liampreston said:


> Heh - yeah it was going quite well...then I think the ending was rushed beyond all comprehension. I am worried the "don't step into the shadows" bit from the trailer means we've got another "don't blink" / "are you my mummy" clone....



Absolutely. My first thought was this sounds a bit like 'blink'. 

Overall, have been less enchanted with this series - Donna is the weakest assistant by far, Tennant seems to be going through the motions a bit and pretty much all the stories have felt a bit recycled and contrived with nothing near as strong as the 1st World War or Blink episodes. Even the introduction of the Dr's 'daughter' to add depth and pathos had no where near the emotional impact of him becoming human and then having to re-embrace his Timelord destiny.

6/10. Must try harder.


----------



## PursuedByBears (May 20, 2008)

According to the BBC, Russell T Davis is to step down as Exec Producer for the next series, to be replaced by Steven Moffatt

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7411177.stm

Probably time for some new blood...


----------



## Balbi (May 20, 2008)

MOFFAT FTW  IT'S A FANBOY DREAM.
win win win


----------



## Vash (May 20, 2008)

Thank God RTD's gone i've a feeling it will still be shit and we'll be saying we hate Moffat in 2 years time. Hopefully Torchwood will be cancelled when he goes as it seems to have been his folly.


----------



## Belushi (May 20, 2008)

PursuedByBears said:


> According to the BBC, Russell T Davis is to step down as Exec Producer for the next series, to be replaced by Steven Moffatt
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7411177.stm
> 
> Probably time for some new blood...



Yay, the fifth season wont be until 2010, which is good - it needs a break.


----------



## Detroit City (May 20, 2008)

Belushi said:


> Yay, the fifth season wont be until 2010, which is good - it needs a break.



they should make it like 2013...


----------



## belboid (May 21, 2008)

why on earth would that help?  dafty

Fair play to Davies for getting it back on the air and giving it some nice new twists, but he's far too soppy and keeps promoting horridly fluffy stories or twists - emo-daleks, ffs.  So, a good riddance, and roll on stevie boy


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 21, 2008)

Vash said:


> Hopefully Torchwood will be cancelled



Nooooo!

Torchwood is ace


----------



## ovaltina (May 21, 2008)

Moffat's episodes stand out as being really good sci fi, but the slushy RTD storylines have been getting worse and worse. Which is a shame when you consider how interesting and brave Queer as Folk was.


----------



## wishface (May 21, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Nooooo!
> 
> Torchwood is ace



are you sure?

it's just bad, bad, bad. It's a car crash at the corner of edgy and witty with no survivors.


----------



## elevendayempire (May 21, 2008)

ovaltina said:


> Moffat's episodes stand out as being really good sci fi, but the slushy RTD storylines have been getting worse and worse. Which is a shame when you consider how interesting and brave Queer as Folk was.


Ever read the Doctor Who book RTD wrote back in the 90s? Fuck me, it's dark.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Nooooo!
> 
> Torchwood is ace



Don't lie to yourself


----------



## Detroit City (May 21, 2008)

belboid said:


> why on earth would that help?  dafty


it'll give 'em time to write some decent story lines....


----------



## ovaltina (May 21, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> Ever read the Doctor Who book RTD wrote back in the 90s? Fuck me, it's dark.



No - I'd like to though. Is it online somewhere? *goes off to look*


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 21, 2008)

wishface said:


> are you sure?



Yep


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 21, 2008)

PursuedByBears said:


> According to the BBC, Russell T Davis is to step down as Exec Producer for the next series, to be replaced by Steven Moffatt
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/7411177.stm
> 
> Probably time for some new blood...



Best news I've heard in ages. Moffat is the bollocks


----------



## Gromit (May 21, 2008)

Bcc site announces that Moffet is in discussion with Whoopie Goldburg for her to replace David Tennent as the Time Lord. That Captain Jack chap to return as her assistant for some but not all of the series.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (May 21, 2008)

Marius said:


> Bcc site announces that Moffet is in discussion with Whoopie Goldburg for her to replace David Tennent as the Time Lord. That Captain Jack chap to return as her assistant for some but not all of the series.



troll! 


that cant be true...?


----------



## Dravinian (May 21, 2008)

I think whoopie would be good.  He is an English invention, not an Englishman.

Also like Capt Jack Harkness, it is a good character, it opens up worlds of stories where a character can die, it allows a villian to be really bad, not an A-Team villian where they spray 9,000 bullets but hit no one, but someone who actually kills people, without that being people no one gives a toss about in character terms.  If you see what I mean, it never really means much when a blank face in the background dies on a TV show.

I hope he quit under pressure from dropping viewing figures because people told him straight they didn't want that fucking idiot Tate on Dr Who, it would be nice if that was true, would at least prove a point about listening to fans.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 21, 2008)

For crossover madness we could have whoopie in it in character as guynan from TNG. That would be awesome


----------



## poster342002 (May 21, 2008)

I'd really have preferreed it if they'd brought in completely new blood - someone hitherto unconnected with the show or fandom. I'mnot sure this is going to make a lot of difference, tbh, or if the differences made will be in the rigth direction.

I have to admit I'm not totally keen on a lot of Moffatt's stuff anyway. Something about his writing's always vaguely rubbed me up the wrong way, but I can't put my finger on what it is. _Press Gang_ always really irritated me from the start, for instance, and the jingoism in _The Empty Child/Doctor Dances_ grated somewhat.


----------



## poster342002 (May 21, 2008)

I'd really have preferreed it if they'd brought in completely new blood - someone hitherto unconnected with the show or fandom. I'mnot sure this is going to make a lot of difference, tbh, or if the differences made will be in the rigth direction.

I have to admit I'm not totally keen on a lot of Moffatt's stuff anyway. There's something about a lot of his writing that vaguely rubs me up the wrong way, but I can't quite put my finger on what it is. _Press Gang_ always really irritated me from the start, for instance, and the jingoism in _The Empty Child/Doctor Dances_ grated somewhat.


----------



## poster342002 (May 21, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> Ever read the Doctor Who book RTD wrote back in the 90s? Fuck me, it's dark.



Yes, I read that (_Damaged Goods_, it was called) and it was very good and extremely dark. Which begs the question how he went from writing 'who stories like that to the sugary stuff we see now?


----------



## belboid (May 21, 2008)

the books weren't read by the saturday tea-time audience


----------



## poster342002 (May 21, 2008)

belboid said:


> the books weren't read by the saturday tea-time audience



No, but the saturday teatime audience was once judged capable of stomaching some quite grim and dark 'who stories during the Pertwee and Tom Baker years. Some of the Hartnell episodes were quite sinister for their time, too.

Wheras even the darkest ones now seem to have to have, say, a fart-noise or some silly joke crowbarred in to dillute their effectiveness.


----------



## strung out (May 28, 2008)

just got sent this via e-mail, my cousins daughter had charity day at school with a theme of 'space' so Maia decided she wanted to go as an Ood...


----------



## cesare (May 31, 2008)

It's on at 7


----------



## danny la rouge (May 31, 2008)

I'm looking forward to it. 

Note to Dr Who team: creepy is better than running around and explosions.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2008)

strung_out said:


> just got sent this via e-mail, my cousins daughter had charity day at school with a theme of 'space' so Maia decided she wanted to go as an Ood...



Win 

E2a: my dad used to work in a children's home in London, and the BBC donated them a genuine dalek costume (complete with voice changing thingy and moveable arms and eye stalk) for the kids to play with. And he never once let me have a go in it the bastard


----------



## cesare (May 31, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> Note to Dr Who team: creepy is better than running around and explosions.



Me too. And yes, they should take note. Even if I have to hide behind the sofa.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 31, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> For crossover madness we could have whoopie in it in character as guynan from TNG. That would be awesome



Tennant's doctor mentioned meeting Arthur Dent in one episode, now _that_ would be an awesome crossover


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 31, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm looking forward to it.
> 
> Note to Dr Who team: creepy is better than running around and explosions.



Well said.


----------



## yardbird (May 31, 2008)

My sofa's is right against the wall.
This causes a problem


----------



## danny la rouge (May 31, 2008)

yardbird said:


> My sofa's is right against the wall.
> This causes a problem


Move it out, then!

My Mum used to take up the rug when there was going to be dancing in our house, for example at Hogmanay.  Despite the fact that you could almost touch both walls with your arm outstretched.  There would, nevertheless, be dancing.  And many would be involved.  I think this is why I fundamentally understand the Tardis.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (May 31, 2008)

Pretty good episode, hopefully the rest of the series is similar, doubt it will be though.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 31, 2008)

Well, that was really rather good.  And, more to the point, creepy.

Some steals from the _Time Traveller's Wife_, but none the worse for that.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 31, 2008)

Moffat at his best. Not a quibble.


----------



## cesare (May 31, 2008)

Ooh!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 31, 2008)

It's the daughter, presumably?


----------



## cesare (May 31, 2008)

That miss indigestible was quite good weren't she


----------



## killer b (May 31, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It's the daughter, presumably?


wife?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 31, 2008)

killer b said:


> wife?


 

Possibly. You'd only give yer sonic gizmo to another time lord, though, so my money's on Jenny.


----------



## cesare (May 31, 2008)

I think she's not wife, nor daughter, but a future assistant.

Who will be an assistant in the future.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 31, 2008)

cesare said:


> I think she's not wife, nor daughter, but a future assistant.
> 
> Who will be an assistant in the future.


 

Yeah, quite possibly. I suspect she's story arc rather than being story, though, and sproggery has loomed rather large so far. 

Well done Moffat, anyway, for shitting up Britain's small children about shadows. Hat-removal all round, please.


----------



## cesare (May 31, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Yeah, quite possibly. I suspect she's story arc rather than being story, though, and sproggery has loomed rather large so far.
> 
> Well done Moffat, anyway, for shitting up Britain's small children about shadows. Hat-removal all round, please.



Relied upon and linked back to at a future moment in time rather than driving the story.

Children should be scared by shadows (and mirrors). If they're not reading fairytales they need to get it elsewhere.


----------



## AURORA (May 31, 2008)

cesare said:


> I think she's not wife, nor daughter, but a future assistant.
> 
> Who will be an assistant in the future.



i think she will be the next doctor


----------



## cesare (May 31, 2008)

AURORA said:


> i think she will be the next doctor



Could be. But she seems a little 'meddling' if that makes sense


----------



## yardbird (May 31, 2008)

Enjoyed that !
No need to hide behind the sofa, but I did have my comfort blanket, just in case.


----------



## Vash (May 31, 2008)

Its very simlar to Girl in the fire p;ace  and Blink I'm worried Moffat might just be RTD's puppet when he takes over he has to get rid of all the all the yes men RTD has surrounded himself wth Julie Gardiner and Chris Chibnall and Andy Hall to name a few.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 31, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> It's the daughter, presumably?


What, the one from the earlier episode?  Naw, she said he hadn't met her yet.


----------



## Stigmata (May 31, 2008)

Yeah, and surely she'd recognise Donna.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 31, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Yeah, and surely she'd recognise Donna.


 
Oh. Yes.


----------



## wishface (May 31, 2008)

Odd but good. 

My money is on the mysterious professor lady being Rose.


----------



## Gromit (May 31, 2008)

wishface said:


> Odd but good.
> 
> My money is on the mysterious professor lady being Rose.


 
That timeline of the Doctor has already met Rose fool. 
Er I mean I take that bet, how much you placing?

Enjoyed theepisode. Only spoilt by the fact its a two parter, i want the second part now goddamit!


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 1, 2008)

That was very good, reet good in fact. It gave me teh creeps...


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 1, 2008)

I watched a trailer and it showed worlds disappearing and darkness spreading above earth with donnas grandad watching. I think it may be a 5 episode arch. Maybe split into to two smaer stories. Seems like a lotis going on to be wrapped up in one episode. I like the way she said the doctor was so young suggesting hes got more than 3 regenerations left.


----------



## gnoriac (Jun 1, 2008)

Best one of this series by far, mind you that's not saying a lot. Moffat taking over can only be a good thing (I hope). Hope he kills off Donna.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 1, 2008)

I'm not sure it will be tied directly to the finale, but there may well be revelations related to it in the next episode. It's set in a futuristic library for a reason.



Spoiler: Additional



We are still awaiting the return of Harriet Jones. Perhaps news on her will be found in the biographies section in which they conveniently arrived.


----------



## wishface (Jun 1, 2008)

Marius said:


> That timeline of the Doctor has already met Rose fool.
> Er I mean I take that bet, how much you placing?
> 
> Enjoyed theepisode. Only spoilt by the fact its a two parter, i want the second part now goddamit!


not like that he hasn't, otherwise he'd have recognised her.

but if she turns out to be some no mark just for this episode, that will be a letdown.


----------



## wishface (Jun 1, 2008)

CNT36 said:


> I watched a trailer and it showed worlds disappearing and darkness spreading above earth with donnas grandad watching. I think it may be a 5 episode arch. Maybe split into to two smaer stories. Seems like a lotis going on to be wrapped up in one episode. I like the way she said the doctor was so young suggesting hes got more than 3 regenerations left.


the only determinant of the amunt of regenerations remaining are the show's ratings.


----------



## liampreston (Jun 1, 2008)

Watched it just on iPlayer. Mebbe the red wine hangover is not helping but I didn't think it was that great. Very intresting ideas and concepts but dunno if some of the links will turn out to be too tenuous....


----------



## emanymton (Jun 1, 2008)

Yep, good episode.

Has anyone else noticed a tendency to killing of the attractive women in the supporting group of characters first?


----------



## Cloo (Jun 1, 2008)

cesare said:


> I think she's not wife, nor daughter, but a future assistant.
> 
> Who will be an assistant in the future.


 I dunno, I think she's maybe gonna buy it in the next episode, and he'll meet her earlier in her life later on and love her knowing she's gonna die, which is why she says he looks 'older' in his eyes when she knows him. Or something.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 1, 2008)

emanymton said:


> Yep, good episode.
> 
> Has anyone else noticed a tendency to killing of the attractive women in the supporting group of characters first?


 
That's universal; far wider than Who.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 1, 2008)

im guessing at his future wife , just by the way she speaks to him


----------



## liampreston (Jun 1, 2008)

Her name is an anagram of Rose....something, heh. Blast, there goes that theory.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 1, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Win
> 
> E2a: my dad used to work in a children's home in London, and the BBC donated them a genuine dalek costume (complete with voice changing thingy and moveable arms and eye stalk) for the kids to play with. And he never once let me have a go in it the bastard



Can I post this again yet? 




Dalek in the background.


----------



## wishface (Jun 1, 2008)

liampreston said:


> Her name is an anagram of Rose....something, heh. Blast, there goes that theory.


well it's an odd name. so it must have some value...if only to confound for the next 6 days.

What's the kid's name?

Not an anagram of Jenny either, which is the other theory.

I'll be disappointed if she just turned out to be some no mark only invented for this show and not someone we have met previously.

And where is the theme of birth that has shown up in every other story this season.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 1, 2008)

Ha, maybe she's the Master.


----------



## wishface (Jun 1, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Ha, maybe she's the Master.


or the bird that picked up his ring!

IT ALL FITS!


----------



## Gromit (Jun 1, 2008)

wishface said:


> I'll be disappointed if she just turned out to be some no mark only invented for this show and not someone we have met previously.


 
I wont be. Christ does there always have to be a previously connection?

The whole point of her bit so far is to turn the 'spoilers' thing around on him. He has all the spoilers on stuff Donna wouldn't know about and now someone has spoilers on him, which he doesn't like very much but can't really complain about.

Future companion maybe but most likely future lover, possibly future wife.

Its exactly what it said on the tin i think. Its the first time he (we) have met her, but not the first time she's met him.


----------



## wishface (Jun 1, 2008)

It's only because of the significance placed upon their relationship in the story. If she was just plain old plot woman, then fine. But my spider sense is tingling, K9.


----------



## belboid (Jun 1, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Well, that was really rather good.  And, more to the point, creepy.
> 
> Some steals from the _Time Traveller's Wife_, but none the worse for that.



and from Buffy _yet again_.  But that's obviously good.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 1, 2008)

wishface said:


> It's only because of the significance placed upon their relationship in the story. If she was just plain old plot woman, then fine. But my spider sense is tingling, K9.



You are thinking like a human not a timelord. Significance must come from the past because thats how time works for you. The Doctor is a time traveler, so significance can come from either direction, the past and the future.


----------



## belboid (Jun 1, 2008)

Marius said:


> I wont be. Christ does there always have to be a previously connection?
> 
> The whole point of her bit so far is to turn the 'spoilers' thing around on him. He has all the spoilers on stuff Donna wouldn't know about and now someone has spoilers on him, which he doesn't like very much but can't really complain about.
> 
> ...



damn right.  The whole point of her is quite clearly that we haven't met her yet (except maybe tenuously), she is from the Doctors future - bloody hell, she said so often enough!

Wife, I reckon, a companion he finally marries.

Great name too - Prof River Song.  Partly from Oxfordds Pitt Rivers Museum?  Anthropoliogy & Ethnography would seem to suit her.  And a hint of the Ood as well, mebbe (everyone sings a song after all)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 1, 2008)

Without meaning to continue with the daft speculation, Alex Kingston clearly knows _this version_ of the Doctor from some point in his future. So one way or another she'll have to be explained away before any more regenerations take place. Maybe.

And while we're pointing out stolen plot points, the ghosts in the radio transmitters smelt more than a little like the pattern buffer from the transporters in star trek that was used to resurrect people on more than one occasion iirc... 



Spoiler



Oh, and 'saved' clearly means saved as in a computer file, like the ghost signal from the transmitters only permanent like.


----------



## belboid (Jun 1, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Without meaning to continue with the daft speculation, Alex Kingston clearly knows _this version_ of the Doctor from some point in his future. So one way or another she'll have to be explained away before any more regenerations take place. Maybe.


I disagree.  She said this Doc was _much_ younger than she had ever seen him before, and as this canration is only likely to last a couple more years, tops, it seems more likely that she has met another one.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 1, 2008)

But he generally gets younger when he regenerates, so that doesn't make much sense. Plus he ends up looking totally different.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 1, 2008)

belboid said:


> I disagree.  She said this Doc was _much_ younger than she had ever seen him before, and as this canration is only likely to last a couple more years, tops, it seems more likely that she has met another one.



I wonder if she meant young in a humanoid appearence sense (as she didn't give any impression of time travelling timelordiness) and the next doc is going to be more of a Hartnell-esque older guy (they might not know who exactly is going to be it, but they might have plot ideas - such as the doctor as a father figure, which has been brought up already) and therefore that's why she was suprised at DT's youthful vigour?


----------



## belboid (Jun 1, 2008)

yeah, but other people recognise him despite regenerations, so she could too. and he doesn't _necesarilly_ become younger


----------



## emanymton (Jun 1, 2008)

belboid said:


> yeah, but other people recognise him despite regenerations, so she could too. and he doesn't _necesarilly_ become younger



She did seem to say it was his eyes that looked younger as well


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 1, 2008)

belboid said:


> yeah, but other people recognise him despite regenerations, so she could too. and he doesn't _necesarilly_ become younger



No, quite - Mckoy was older seeming than Baker (C) or Davidson irc.


----------



## Vash (Jun 1, 2008)

I think River Songs the girl in the present, very cheesy but I'm 99.9% sure she is.  River Song reminds me of River Tam if your geeky enough to have heard of her.


----------



## Pingu (Jun 1, 2008)

last nights episode gets the pingu flipper of approval

not as scary as "dont blink" but better than most episodes

re wotserface. I am guessing another time lord (maybe somoone else who survived).

mrs pingu says:

she played a *doctor* in ER


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 1, 2008)

Is there a repeat?


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 1, 2008)

BBC3 8 O'Clock or Iplayer. Worth watching imho. Lots of visual clues etc. And as the Ood said "One day your (river?)song will end too"....

*dons tin foil hat*


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 1, 2008)

OK that's a date, the TV and my eyes.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 1, 2008)

Vash said:


> I think River Songs the girl in the present, very cheesy but I'm 99.9% sure she is.  River Song reminds me of River Tam if your geeky enough to have heard of her.



Nah, the girl is the AI running the library, or something along those lines.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 1, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Nah, the girl is the AI running the library, or something along those lines.


Gets my vote.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 1, 2008)

Is that the same little girl from the Resident Evil fillums?


----------



## emanymton (Jun 1, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Nah, the girl is the AI running the library, or something along those lines.



And the Doctor who seems to know whats going on is?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 1, 2008)

emanymton said:


> And the Doctor who seems to know whats going on is?


The Master?

Working for Davros?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Yeah, quite possibly. I suspect she's story arc rather than being story, though, and sproggery has loomed rather large so far.
> 
> Well done Moffat, anyway, for shitting up Britain's small children about shadows. Hat-removal all round, please.




ennit. Another blinder from Moffat


----------



## Firky (Jun 2, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> ennit. Another blinder from Moffat



Word

Neil Gaiman is penned in to write a few too...

What was the shadows called again? I want hta tas my tagline.


----------



## wishface (Jun 2, 2008)

Dave.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2008)

firky said:


> Word
> 
> Neil Gaiman is penned in to write a few too...
> 
> What was the shadows called again? I want hta tas my tagline.


sierra nevada


----------



## emanymton (Jun 2, 2008)

Am I the only person still a little confused about what the shadows actrully where and how these Vasta Navada (or whatever their called) actrully work?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2008)

Yes.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 2, 2008)

Just my stupidity then, I can cope with that, thanks


----------



## Gromit (Jun 2, 2008)

emanymton said:


> Am I the only person still a little confused about what the shadows actrully where and how these Vasta Navada (or whatever their called) actrully work?


 
Imagine that a single black mote of dust floating in a sunbeam is a tiny floating flesh eating animal. 

Now imagine millions of em so densely packed that they make the air seem like a shadow. I guess at his point they develop a hive mind.


----------



## magneze (Jun 2, 2008)

Quality episode, enjoyable throughout. The highlight of the series so far for me, wonder who Alex Kingston turns out to be? Older Rose was my initial guess but I'm not sure that panned out as the episode went on ...


----------



## FiFi (Jun 2, 2008)

Would I sound REALLY sad if I admitted I've slept with the lights on for the last 2 nights?


----------



## Pingu (Jun 2, 2008)

FiFi said:


> Would I sound REALLY sad if I admitted I've slept with the lights on for the last 2 nights?


 


DONT BLINK


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 2, 2008)

Ice cream. Ice cream. Ice cream. Ice cream. Ice cream.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 2, 2008)

Humm, that was OK I suppose. Best one for a while anyway. 

That lady was pretty, my wife tells me she died (I was putting my daughter to sleep during that bit).


----------



## hektik (Jun 2, 2008)

i hypothesised that alex kingston is the next doctor as well...


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 2, 2008)

Perhaps Kingstone is the Rani in her earlier years? 

Maybe these events (and the doubtless "surprise" return at the end of the season) are what drives her to become the Rani? 

Anyway - not a bad episdoe that. Far better than what we've seen so far (I actually gave up watching after the dire _Partners In Crime_). Still one or two Moffatt-isms that are mildy irritating, mind, but still miles ahead of most of the show at the moment.


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 2, 2008)

gnoriac said:


> Moffat taking over can only be a good thing (I hope).



It'd be nice if he could give the child-charecters in his stories a rest, though (_The empty child, Girl in the Fireplace, Silence in the Library _- enough now). I really hope we don't end up with a creche-load of actors all the time when he takes over.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 2, 2008)

Yeah, that's the last thing you want to see in a kids' show.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2008)

I think Moll may well turn out to be the Master.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 2, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I think Moll may well turn out to be the Master.



you know she's called alex kingston and not moll flanders right who was a charchter she (kingston) played...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> you know she's called alex kingston and not moll flanders right who was a charchter she (kingston) played...



yeah, but I can never remember alex, so end up calling her Moll


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 2, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Yeah, that's the last thing you want to see in a kids' show.



The show ran for decades without child charecters featuring as often as now.


----------



## belboid (Jun 2, 2008)

yeah, but Moffat's kids are actually quite good.

The pother ones aren't tho, agreed.


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 2, 2008)

belboid said:


> yeah, but Moffat's kids are actually quite good.



I just hope we don't end up with most of the stories revolving around child charecters when he takes over, though.


----------



## hektik (Jun 2, 2008)

mid series trailer from the beeb website:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/v... the rest of Doctor Who Series 4.&info=&info2


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 2, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> The show ran for decades without child charecters featuring as often as now.



That's not a very good justification. You could say the same about gay characters, ethnic minorities, all sorts of things.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 2, 2008)

Marius said:


> Imagine that a single black mote of dust floating in a sunbeam is a tiny floating flesh eating animal.
> 
> Now imagine millions of em so densely packed that they make the air seem like a shadow. I guess at his point they develop a hive mind.



But the shadows where on the florr not in the air. Are all the little buggers just siting on  the floor?


----------



## Vash (Jun 2, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> I just hope we don't end up with most of the stories revolving around child charecters when he takes over, though.



A little girl companion or have the Dr regenerate into a little girl.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 2, 2008)

emanymton said:


> But the shadows where on the florr not in the air. Are all the little buggers just siting on  the floor?



in the air, ccasting a shadow on the floor.  shadows are three dimensional, that's how they work.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 2, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> in the air, ccasting a shadow on the floor.  shadows are three dimensional, that's how they work.



But then wouldn't they have to be visable as a solid block in the air in order to cast a shadow


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 2, 2008)

One of the children was just one (although the leader/primary) of a large group of characters all sufering from the same condition. It seemed to me important for the story it was a child for the climax of the story and because it made the gas mask that bit more freaky. The girl in the fireplace was only in it for a small portion of the episode before growing up and becoming fit. Also important for the story. Its not exactly turned into a CBBC kids drama. If the story is not going to be greatly improved by the inclusion of a child I doubt any will be included.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 2, 2008)

It's nice to have kids in there every now and again for the young-uns to identify with, or summit. There's still plenty of adult fun for the rest of us.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 2, 2008)

emanymton said:


> But then wouldn't they have to be visable as a solid block in the air in order to cast a shadow



solidish.  dunno.  maybe they are.  

i hadn't questioned it before and now i'm bothered.  I hope you're satisfied!


----------



## Balbi (Jun 2, 2008)

Oh FFS, not Daleks again.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 2, 2008)

And back to the episode.

Just watched it on IPlayer. It's an episode which asks a ton of questions, treats the audience as intelligent people who are ready to invest some time in thinking about it - unlike some of the other Doctor Who by numbers stuff. High emotion string pulling, a few deaths and a decent bit of drama. I bloody love Moffat me 

This actually made me think. The 10th Doc's still got to meet, and hack off, Elizabeth I.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 2, 2008)

Watched the latest episode today, tis the best I've seen since "Blink"


----------



## Balbi (Jun 2, 2008)

The idea of Neil Gaiman writing Who makes me go all funny in the brain.



What next? Alan Moore....


----------



## emanymton (Jun 2, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> solidish.  dunno.  maybe they are.
> 
> i hadn't questioned it before and now i'm bothered.  I hope you're satisfied!



Very!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2008)

Balbi said:


> The idea of Neil Gaiman writing Who makes me go all funny in the brain.
> 
> 
> 
> What next? Alan Moore....



Gaiman doing one sounds ace.

Moore penned Doctor Who would be thrice as awesome


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Jun 2, 2008)

Just downloaded  and watched it, when that white clad space suit character walked through the door I thought that The Stig was the main enemy


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> I just hope we don't end up with most of the stories revolving around child charecters when he takes over, though.


You may have noticed, society is full of children.  Half the people in my house are children.  I sincerely hope there continue to be child characters, because they're under represented now, in the stories.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 2, 2008)

Moffat's also managed to make some of the best Who - mainly because he doesn't use the fucking Daleks, Cybermen or any of the old canon stuff. I think the 'Daleks, go for the eye stalk - Sontarans, back of the neck - Cybermen....etc' was a bit of a dig at unimaginative Mr Davies.

Kids with Gas Masks, Clockwork Men from the 51st century, The Weeping Angels - and now the Shadows. It's all I can do as a fanboy not to try and marry him


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2008)

Balbi said:


> the fucking Daleks, Cybermen or any of the old canon stuff.


Yup.  Fuck the canon.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 2, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Yup.  Fuck the canon.



......*draws sharp breath*.....

Not exactly fuck it. But let it go for a season or two, and bring it back in gently.

Kids need new things to be scared of now! 

So do I tbh


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 2, 2008)

It's boring, though.  Over done.  A bit of imagination is what's needed.

I prefer the historical episodes anyway.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> It's boring, though.  Over done.  A bit of imagination is what's needed.
> 
> I prefer the historical episodes anyway.




The Daleks, and the Sontarans had the potential to be far scarier. They were fairly poor in new who. Especially the Emo Daleks. The Daleks from Sylvester Mcoy's era (Hand of Omega) and the imperial daleks in rude shouty blonde Toms era were better.

Moffat's stuff reminds me of old skool auton fear that I had as a kid. His monsters are the things we see and ignore. Brr.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 3, 2008)

Balbi said:


> The idea of Neil Gaiman writing Who makes me go all funny in the brain.
> 
> 
> 
> What next? Alan Moore....


I'm more interested in the news that Moffat's tempting Rob Shearman back to the series - he was the guy who wrote the first (and best) of the new series' Dalek stories. And he's done a bunch of Who audios, which are bloody brilliant.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 3, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Moffat's also managed to make some of the best Who - mainly because he doesn't use the fucking Daleks, Cybermen or any of the old canon stuff. I think the 'Daleks, go for the eye stalk - Sontarans, back of the neck - Cybermen....etc' was a bit of a dig at unimaginative Mr Davies.
> 
> Kids with Gas Masks, Clockwork Men from the 51st century, The Weeping Angels - and now the Shadows. It's all I can do as a fanboy not to try and marry him



I thought it was more a dig at Achilles heel type plots.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 3, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> solidish.  dunno.  maybe they are.
> 
> i hadn't questioned it before and now i'm bothered.  I hope you're satisfied!


To cast a shaddow the particles would have to fully block the line between the light source and the floor. Seen as a two dimensional plane the particles would be a solid object. When you look at the third dimension you could be looking at particles dispersed over the entire range from floor to light source. Seen from the side the density could be low enough that it'd be impossible to see them.


----------



## FiFi (Jun 3, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> To cast a shaddow the particles would have to fully block the line between the light source and the floor. Seen as a two dimensional plane the particles would be a solid object. When you look at the third dimension you could be looking at particles dispersed over the entire range from floor to light source. Seen from the side the density could be low enough that it'd be impossible to see them.





You have a lot of time on your hands today, don't you?


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 3, 2008)

FiFi said:


> You have a lot of time on your hands today, don't you?


More interesting than trying to justify why a timestamp has negligible entropy in formal terms.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 3, 2008)

Give this guy an OBE. I thought the same thing but the post would have included the word like every third word and have made no sense.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 3, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> To cast a shaddow the particles would have to fully block the line between the light source and the floor. Seen as a two dimensional plane the particles would be a solid object. When you look at the third dimension you could be looking at particles dispersed over the entire range from floor to light source. Seen from the side the density could be low enough that it'd be impossible to see them.



Nope I am still not convinced. I understand you point but they would still have to be visible form certain angles and therefore would be noticed as people moved around or even just turned their head slightly.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 3, 2008)

emanymton said:


> Nope I am still not convinced. I understand you point but they would still have to be visible form certain angles and therefore would be noticed as people moved around or even just turned their head slightly.


Not really, look through a pane of glass, near invisible, look through the same pane of glass lengthways and it's near opaque. If it were a single pane of material like a slice of carbon then yes you'd see it sometimes but it's not the situation.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 3, 2008)

Wow.  Look what's coming!

Vashta Nerada is an anagram of...


Spoiler



SATAN HAD RAVE


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 4, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> To cast a shaddow the particles would have to fully block the line between the light source and the floor. Seen as a two dimensional plane the particles would be a solid object. When you look at the third dimension you could be looking at particles dispersed over the entire range from floor to light source. Seen from the side the density could be low enough that it'd be impossible to see them.



does that mean i was right?

anyone?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 4, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> The show ran for decades without child charecters featuring as often as now.


To be fair it was a bit rubbish for decades, and now isn't.

Also, there really aren't children in it very often.


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 5, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> To be fair it was a bit rubbish for decades, and now isn't.



That'll have explained it's enduring popularity throughout the 60s and 70s, then?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> That'll have explained it's enduring popularity throughout the 60s and 70s, then?


I watched it then.  But what clips I've seen from the 80s, and the Paul thingy one in the 90s looked pretty appalling to me.  In my opinion.


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 5, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I watched it then.  But what clips I've seen from the 80s, and the Paul thingy one in the 90s looked pretty appalling to me.  In my opinion.



I agree that the latter seasons of it's orginal run were _very_ ropey - but that's hardly "being rubbish for decades".


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 5, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> I agree that the latter seasons of it's orginal run were _very_ ropey - but that's hardly "being rubbish for decades".


Ok, more than ten years, prior to being pulled.


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 5, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Ok, more than ten years, prior to being pulled.



That's not really fair - I think it really only got silly towards Colin Bakers final season. The McCoy era I didn't like at all. The Peter Davison episodes were mostly very good, I thought.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2008)

It was not rubbish for decades. And I didn't see any in its original run, went back and watched em towards the end of mcoys run.


----------



## belboid (Jun 5, 2008)

It was rubbish then - and don't try arguing that the Candy Man story was great, it wasn't, it was piss poor, vague anti-Thatcher message notwithstanding


----------



## cesare (Jun 5, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> His monsters are the things we see and ignore. Brr.



Anything to do with shadows and mirrors ... eek. 

The shadows theme reminds me of something similar, I think it was a Sheri Tepper novel ...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2008)

belboid said:


> It was rubbish then - and don't try arguing that the Candy Man story was great, it wasn't, it was piss poor, vague anti-Thatcher message notwithstanding



Well what about Ark in space? that wasn't rubbish (not mcoy I know). Or trial of a time lord?

you can't dismiss everything before New Who as crap like DLR is.


----------



## belboid (Jun 5, 2008)

I don't dismiss everything before New Who as crap and neither does DLR.

Ark in Space - a Tom Baker one - was great.  I recall quite enjoying trial - Colin Baker - tho don't remember it very well.  I did think Colin was an alright Doctor, certainly better than McCoy or Davison


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2008)

I think Davison gets a rough ride, tainted as his run was with that crap companion adric


----------



## belboid (Jun 5, 2008)

and his bloody stupid costume - I mean, _celery_?  I ask you


----------



## ethel (Jun 5, 2008)

i love peter davison. caves of androzani for the win.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2008)

sarahluv said:


> i love peter davison. caves of androzani for the win.




I only really rate maldrwyn undead. It had the Brigadier.


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 5, 2008)

belboid said:


> It was rubbish then - and don't try arguing that the Candy Man story was great, it wasn't, it was piss poor, vague anti-Thatcher message notwithstanding



Although I wasn't keen on the McCoy era, that story (_The Happiness Patrol_) was actually my favourite story of it. Along with _Paradise Towers_.


----------



## belboid (Jun 5, 2008)

It might well have been the best, but it's all comparative.

Davison I probably remember slightly unfairly as he was following the greatest Doctor ever, and so had an all but impossible job to do.  The celery was damned silly tho


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 5, 2008)

I liked the first three, but Tom Baker didn't do it for me.


----------



## belboid (Jun 5, 2008)

weirdo


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 5, 2008)

Dr who was always hit and miss. But the hits definitley became thinner on the ground from the late 70s onwards. Peter Davidson was quite crap and it only got worse after him. 

And Ark in Space - whilst a good story had simply laughable specail effects - a man wrapped in cling film painted green FFS. And I remember cringing at its crapness when it was first transmitted. 

Generally the new series is a class above most of the old dr who - far superior acting, dialouge and general crediting of the audience with intelligence - and the locations, special effects, production values etc are in a different league. 
 Some of the old episodes had great ideas and storys - but were padded out with way too much filler. i.e The Sea Devils - great monsters, great idea, great story, the master, the bit where the sea devils come out of the sea etc. But it was dragged out over six episodes and I found much of it near unwatchable when I saw it again on video a few years ago.

Anyway - last weeks episode - very good, proper scary, lots of unanswered questions  and very much looking forward to next weeks. 

I dont think this series is that different to any of the others quality wise. The opening episode 'partners in crime' was utter cack but everything else has ranged between ok and very good. And Catherine Tate is an infinitely  better actor than Frea/Martha. 


However im pleased that RTD is going. And Probably time for Tennant to ship off as well.


----------



## Vash (Jun 5, 2008)

RTD took away the Daleks eyestalk weakness, hes made them completly indestructible and even able to fly which is shit because they were always meant to have been a joke.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 5, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> you can't dismiss everything before New Who as crap like DLR is.


I'm not doing that; I'm dismissing everything between Tom Baker and Chris Ecclescake.  Based entirely on prejudice and a clip featuring Bertie Bassett.


----------



## rollinder (Jun 5, 2008)

Vash said:


> RTD took away the Daleks eyestalk weakness, hes made them completly indestructible and even able to fly which is shit because they were always meant to have been a joke.


 
no - they were meant to be a metaphor for the evil of the Nazis 

oh and daleks could fly since 88 (and hover since Pertwee/Hartnell era comics) /geek


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2008)

rollinder said:


> no - they were meant to be a metaphor for the evil of the Nazis
> 
> oh and daleks could fly since 88 (and hover since Pertwee/Hartnell era comics) /geek



Imperial Daleks (the gold and white ones) could hover in a Mcoy story


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 6, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Imperial Daleks (the gold and white ones) could hover in a Mcoy story



I got the impression all the daleks were always able to do this: just that this was the first story that the necessary special effects were available to show it. How else could the Daleks conquer much of the universe if they couldn't deal with stairs?


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 6, 2008)

Always? Don't forget the good old days when they ran on static electricity. Although this wasn't a hinderance in genesis of the daleks. I thought this was a continuity error but luckily wikipedia set me straight.


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 6, 2008)

CNT36 said:


> Always? Don't forget the good old days when they ran on static electricity. Although this wasn't a hinderance in genesis of the daleks. I thought this was a continuity error but luckily wikipedia set me straight.



Those static-powered Daleks were - according to some fan-lore - a one-off isolated breed of prototypes that took over the disused Kaled city during the period after _Genesis of the Daleks_. Hence why they don't really fit in to the established continuity that developed since the first Hartnell Dalek story in which the static-powered ones featured.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2008)

BBC get all heavy handed over Doctor Who knitting patterns


http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article3926859.ece


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 6, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Those static-powered Daleks were - according to some fan-lore - a one-off isolated breed of prototypes that took over the disused Kaled city during the period after _Genesis of the Daleks_. Hence why they don't really fit in to the established continuity that developed since the first Hartnell Dalek story in which the static-powered ones featured.



Indeed that was the explanation I heard aswell. Also other errors were blamed on the changes the doctor made to the timeline in Genesis of the Daleks.


----------



## wishface (Jun 6, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> BBC get all heavy handed over Doctor Who knitting patterns
> 
> 
> http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/tv_and_radio/article3926859.ece


This story has been popping up for years, it seems to me.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 6, 2008)

SciFi channel is showing the episode called "The Doctor's Daughter" tonight....we'll see how it is 

I'm keeping my expectations low


----------



## strung out (Jun 6, 2008)

just watched the silent library, seriously fucking good imo


----------



## elbows (Jun 7, 2008)

Davison stands out for me because he was the Doctor when I was old enough to remember watching it. But Tom Baker was the doctor for my first 6 years of life, and having recently watched lots of Tom Baker Dr Who, Im seriously happy. Then I was trying to work out why some episodes were so damn funny, and learnt all about Douglas Adams being script-editor for a series, which explained a lot. 

But then again all the doctors have their merit, I find it easy to like most of them because the Dr Who character is so quirky whoever plays him. I keep meaning to watch the original doctor as the character seemed darker and more ambiguous then, but Patrick Troughtons Dr also interests me. 

Another benefit of the old ones is you get so many appearences by actors known for other things - Genesis of the Daleks has some politics in it and also Gruber from Allo Allo, minus the camp.

Seen the Tom Baker 1980's computer ad's?


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 7, 2008)

so far the best thing about "The Dr's Daughter" is the doctor's daughter....

another marginal episode  

maybe it'll pick up in teh last 15 minutes


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 7, 2008)

it's too bad the Doctor's daughter kicked the bucket....oh well, he can't be tied down with any offspring


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 7, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> it's too bad the Doctor's daughter kicked the bucket....oh well, he can't be tied down with any offspring




yeah docs daughter episode is OK

Wait for the Moffat offering. Far superior


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 7, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah docs daughter episode is OK
> 
> Wait for the Moffat offering. Far superior



i guess she didn't kick the bucket after all...yea i guess the last 20 minutes or so got better


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 7, 2008)

Apparently David Tennant's shagging his 'daughter' nowadays. He's a bit of a player on the quiet.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 7, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Apparently David Tennant's shagging his 'daughter' nowadays. He's a bit of a player on the quiet.


He had been having a thing with the _Girl In The Fireplace_, mind.  So a bit of a pattern emerging...


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 7, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> He had been having a thing with the _Girl In The Fireplace_, mind.  So a bit of a pattern emerging...


"Mothers, lock up your blonde daughters who are guest-starring in Doctor Who"?

BTW, for all the carping about Russell T Davies, his one-shot episode next week pisses all over this season's Moffat's offering from a great height.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 7, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> "Mothers, lock up your blonde daughters who are guest-starring in Doctor Who"?
> 
> BTW, for all the carping about Russell T Davies, his one-shot episode next week pisses all over this season's Moffat's offering from a great height.



Is that the episode called _Midnight? _If so, I've heard very good things about it, but hadn't twigged that it was RTD-penned.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 7, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> "Mothers, lock up your blonde daughters who are guest-starring in Doctor Who"?



So, the current Doctor is stepping out with his on-screen daughter, who in real life happens to be the daughter of Peter Davison, a previous Doctor incarnation, and Sandra Dickinson who played Trillian in Hitchhikers, which was written by Douglas Adams, who used to write for Doctor Who? God, they should have amazing space-comedy-drama babies.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 7, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Apparently David Tennant's shagging his 'daughter' nowadays. He's a bit of a player on the quiet.



that wouldn't be a bad shag


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 7, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Apparently David Tennant's shagging his 'daughter' nowadays. He's a bit of a player on the quiet.



what david ten inch as billy calls him...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 7, 2008)

Looking forward to this one


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 7, 2008)

Decent ending.


----------



## cesare (Jun 7, 2008)

That was good.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 7, 2008)

Good episode.

I've seen Doctor Moon before but I can't think what in


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 7, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I've seen Doctor Moon before but I can't think what in



Wasn't he in one of the James Bond flicks?


----------



## Pingu (Jun 7, 2008)

bit of a weird ending but one of the best episodes yet.


----------



## moomoo (Jun 7, 2008)

I didn't like it.  Didn't understand any of it. 

Hopefully next weeks will be a nice simple storyline.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 7, 2008)

Best post-reboot Who so far. Beautifully written. I'm converted now: Tate can act pretty well when need be.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 7, 2008)

Not just scaring kids about shadows, making them feel that every time TV jump-cuts to indicate a temporal shift, something dodgy is happening. Moffat really is ever so good.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 7, 2008)

The bit where Miss Evangelista lifted her veil has still got me a wee bit freaked out. I'm glad I'm not eight years old and going to bed soon.


----------



## Rogue Element (Jun 7, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Good episode.
> 
> I've seen Doctor Moon before but I can't think what in



Yeah, that was bugging me too.

I should have checked the credits, damnit.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 7, 2008)

Charles Robinson in recent Bond films.


----------



## wishface (Jun 7, 2008)

Sorry, but meh. A poor resolution to a promising start. Again with the sentimentality, the lonely doctor, the overwrought emotional aspect. Please stop it! 

Next week's looks like a cracking adventure. 

These storylines like this just aren't working fore me; too ambitious. We all liked Blink because it was so simple. That's what I want, more simple. Less soap opera.


----------



## cybertect (Jun 7, 2008)

No, I loved it. I'm soooooo looking forward to Moffat being in charge.


----------



## moomoo (Jun 7, 2008)

wishface said:


> Sorry, but meh. A poor resolution to a promising start. Again with the sentimentality, the lonely doctor, the overwrought emotional aspect. Please stop it!
> 
> Next week's looks like a cracking adventure.
> 
> These storylines like this just aren't working fore me; too ambitious. We all liked Blink because it was so simple. That's what I want, more simple. Less soap opera.




I'm with you on this one.  Although, I've just watched it again and understood it more.


----------



## T & P (Jun 7, 2008)

I liked it but was left a tad confused.

Have I missed what the relationship between River Song and the Doctor actually is, or are we yet to find out?


----------



## wishface (Jun 7, 2008)

moomoo said:


> I'm with you on this one.  Although, I've just watched it again and understood it more.


It's not per se difficult to understand; that wasn't the problem, although the story I think got in the way of itself.

It's that they added all the mawkish crap to make the whole deal more engaging. Donna's adventures as a savefile obviously needed something, but it came off as a confused retread of the storyline from last season where the doctor was human for a while. It didn't work. 

And without River Song being someone I knew (which was why I had supposed her identity as Rose) I found it rather difficult to care - and the more the story tried to force me to care, the less I did. But yet again we were treated to the 'Ronery' doctor and his terrible burden of being the Universe's Greatest Guy.

Give it up please it's getting in the way of a cracking teatime adventure show. That's all I want: give me back that iteinerant science hobo who muddles into an adventure and winds up using his smarts to save the day.

A jellybaby, a long scarf, and a huge grin. That's all we need. 

But spare me the Doctor-is-Jesus angle.


----------



## wishface (Jun 7, 2008)

T & P said:


> I liked it but was left a tad confused.
> 
> Have I missed what the relationship between River Song and the Doctor actually is, or are we yet to find out?


I guess she's someone who has a fling with him, or possibly becomes a future Mrs Who. That's the impression I got. We may never know, she's just someone who has met him later on from his current temporal perspective.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 7, 2008)

I think it could have done with an extra episode. 

There was an awful lot to get through in there.

I thought that the last exchange between the Doctor and Song was good  It wrapped it up neatly. However he shouldn't have saved her. She should have been deaded for sure, or he shouldn't have made it to the computer in time. And then got very annoyed.

Moffat did the 'JUST FOR ONCE, EVERYBODY LIVES' with Ecclescake. Well, that's TWICE now.


----------



## moomoo (Jun 7, 2008)

Balbi said:


> I think it could have done with an extra episode.
> 
> There was an awful lot to get through in there.



Yes, I think that was the problem - just too much to take in.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 7, 2008)

That said, it wasn't telly by numbers like some of the episodes. You had to think about things, and ask questions and wait for answers. Intelligent telly is much nicer than big dumb telly.


----------



## gnoriac (Jun 8, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Good episode.
> 
> I've seen Doctor Moon before but I can't think what in



He kept reminding me of that bloke in the Halifax adverts.


----------



## gnoriac (Jun 8, 2008)

Overall though thought it was excellent, one of the best Dr Who episodes ever. The actual storyline behind it wasn't as bizarre as it kinda originally promised, yet the production was so strong it kept it really top notch.

Puzzles me though, if they can make such a strong episode of Dr Who, why can't the Beeb ever do one of Torchwood that even comes near to that standard?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 8, 2008)

Can see why some people found that episode confusing, was entertaining though. I'm glad there's not another part to it, next one looks good to.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 8, 2008)

wishface said:


> It's not per se difficult to understand; that wasn't the problem, although the story I think got in the way of itself.
> 
> It's that they added all the mawkish crap to make the whole deal more engaging. Donna's adventures as a savefile obviously needed something, but it came off as a confused retread of the storyline from last season where the doctor was human for a while. It didn't work.
> 
> ...


 
Wishface sulks cause they made their own episode up with Rose and ninjas and jellybabies and so anything else was never going to be good enough.

Try watching the show without so many preconceptions. You might enjoy it more. That was one mighty fine 2 parter imo.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 8, 2008)

Funny i expected that sort of answer from wishface, i agree with marius though.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 8, 2008)

Balbi said:


> I think it could have done with an extra episode.
> 
> There was an awful lot to get through in there.
> 
> ...


 
Either ending would have been good enough but for him to have failed with his screwdriver ploy and all that fore knowledge would make the doctor a bit rubbish and not brilliant at all really and we can't be having that.


----------



## wishface (Jun 8, 2008)

Marius said:


> Wishface sulks cause they made their own episode up with Rose and ninjas and jellybabies and so anything else was never going to be good enough.
> 
> Try watching the show without so many preconceptions. You might enjoy it more. That was one mighty fine 2 parter imo.


I didn't have any preconceptions. I just didn't like the overwrought tone. 

You have to admit, the lonely doctor thing is getting very tiresome now. They've elevated him to the status of a superhuman god ffs, which is amusing since he relies on deus ex machina constatnly to get out of situations! 

It was a gtand idea, and the first part was good. But the second part fell rather flat for me.


----------



## wishface (Jun 8, 2008)

Marius said:


> Either ending would have been good enough but for him to have failed with his screwdriver ploy and all that fore knowledge would make the doctor a bit rubbish and not brilliant at all really and we can't be having that.


The doctor could stand to be a bit rubbish, once in a while. Not the all conquering unfailing hero who feels the pain of every living thing ever. It's all getting a bit emo darling!


----------



## phildwyer (Jun 8, 2008)

Apparently they fılm Dr. Who 50 yards down the road from my local.  I've never seen them though--they must be hıdıng ın the phone booth.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 8, 2008)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> So, the current Doctor is stepping out with his on-screen daughter, who in real life happens to be the daughter of Peter Davison, a previous Doctor incarnation, and Sandra Dickinson who played Trillian in Hitchhikers, which was written by Douglas Adams, who used to write for Doctor Who? God, they should have amazing space-comedy-drama babies.


I know Tennant's a mad Who fan, but shagging Davison's daughter is a whole other level of fannishness. Actually it sort of reminded me of this:


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 8, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Good episode.
> 
> I've seen Doctor Moon before but I can't think what in



I think he was in Alien vs Predator


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 8, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Good episode.
> 
> I've seen Doctor Moon before but I can't think what in


http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Colin_Salmon

bond brosen era

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0758760/


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 8, 2008)

good pair of eps imo , but one thing with the donna save file living her life for seven years seemed a bit similar to how the doctor lived his life as a human in the last series , even though donna was only away for a little while it just seemed like the same thing kinda happened but this time to an assistant ( abliet in the future) , did moffat write that story in the last series


----------



## Socialist Cynic (Jun 8, 2008)

Tate is terrible, she can't help slipping into her comedy characters - "You wot!" 

And if I have to watch her overact her grindingly bad way through "scared" or "sad" one more time...

Wishface is right btw, what made earlier episodes great was that the doctor wasn't infallible, there was still the feeling that something could go wrong and he might fail, he was just cobbling stuff together as he went along. Atm, it's too certain that Himself will sort it out with a wave of his sonic wand, probably with a cry of "Not today!" and his legion of fans standing around cooing over him. It's been missing its soul ever since he got lifted up by angels in that episode with Kylie.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 8, 2008)

Socialist Cynic said:


> Tate is terrible, she can't help slipping into her comedy characters - "You wot!"



See, she isn't terrible at all - She's not as good as Billy (imo) who was really excellent but 7,000,000 light years better than Freema Agmeyang. How many times does it needed to be pointed out that Tate (an ACTOR) does not write the dialogue - That is the job of the WRITER - so, if it says 'You wot!' or 'You're joking!' then it is not Tate's fault but the writers. Considering such lines are fairly staple phrases in early 21st century speech it's not suprising they appear occaisionally.  

Tate's a bit 'ham' occaisionally but bloody hell - the show is a big camp pantomime most weeks anyway so I can't really condemn her for acting up a bit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Colin_Salmon
> 
> bond brosen era
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0758760/




Aha! I knew I'd seen him before


----------



## Gromit (Jun 8, 2008)

wishface said:


> The doctor could stand to be a bit rubbish, once in a while. Not the all conquering unfailing hero who feels the pain of every living thing ever. It's all getting a bit emo darling!


 
Well he doesn't always save everyone. In quite a few episodes people have bought it. This time though seeing as future doctor has the opportunity to effect the outcome with his foreknowledge it would had been if he couldn't have. The benefit of 20/20 hindsight we all sometimes wish we had in advance.


----------



## Socialist Cynic (Jun 8, 2008)

> How many times does it needed to be pointed out that Tate (an ACTOR) does not write the dialogue



An ACTOR could say the phrase in a variety of different ways, rather than exactly the same as is done with their other characters. A GOOD actor can immerse themselves in even a two dimensional character and make them breathe. Tate does neither - and while yes Doctor Who is tea-time TV it's not  pantomime and she's not a dame, there's no excuses given the wages she'll be pulling in for doing a less than professional job of it.


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 8, 2008)

Socialist Cynic said:


> An ACTOR could say the phrase in a variety of different ways, rather than exactly the same as is done with their other characters. A GOOD actor can immerse themselves in even a two dimensional character and make them breathe. Tate does neither - and while yes Doctor Who is tea-time TV it's not  pantomime and she's not a dame, there's no excuses given the wages she'll be pulling in for doing a less than professional job of it.



I'm surprised everyone is jumping on Catherine Tate for being 'hammy' and ignoring the biggest ham actor of them all, David Tennant. I'm not a fan of CT's 'comedy' but she's doing pretty well as an actress and certainly far better than Freema.

Enjoyed last night's ep although I think I may have missed the finer points as I was cooking and had my back to the screen.

Wish I'd taped it now.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 8, 2008)

I think this thread is proof that people complain about things way too much.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2008)

_angel_ said:


> I'm surprised everyone is jumping on Catherine Tate for being 'hammy' and ignoring the biggest ham actor of them all, David Tennant. I'm not a fan of CT's 'comedy' but she's doing pretty well as an actress and certainly far better than Freema.
> 
> Enjoyed last night's ep although I think I may have missed the finer points as I was cooking and had my back to the screen.
> 
> Wish I'd taped it now.



Iplayer will have it by now if you want a re-watch


----------



## Gromit (Jun 8, 2008)

tangerinedream said:


> How many times does it needed to be pointed out that Tate (an ACTOR) does not write the dialogue - That is the job of the WRITER - so, if it says 'You wot!' or 'You're joking!' then it is not Tate's fault but the writers.


 
Writers would love it if as you said they write and thats the end of it, thats what comes out the actors mouths. Not the real world though. Some actors actually get their agents to make sure that certain catch phrases they are known for are written into the script. Brand identity n all that.
In Mel Gibsons case a gratuitous arse shot had to be writen in somehow into a lot of his film cause the agents insisted on it. Nothing to do with the writters but the producers and agents.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 8, 2008)

Marius said:


> Writers would love it if as you said they write and thats the end of it, thats what comes out the actors mouths. Not the real world though. Some actors actually get their agents to make sure that certain catch phrases they are known for are written into the script. Brand identity n all that.
> In Mel Gibsons case a gratuitous arse shot had to be writen in somehow into a lot of his film cause the agents insisted on it. Nothing to do with the writters but the producers and agents.



I don't think it's as cynical as that to be honest in this instance. Doctor Who wanted a known name to play a more feisty companion. The ability to create humour is also a must in the rebooted version. Tate is known for playing feisty comic roles. I think that's an example of casting someone in a role. Occaisionally Tate is guilty of sounding like, er, Tate. 

I think though she has played some moments of subtlety very well - her outrage over the treatment of the ood, her sympathy toward the thick girl who got eaten by the vashta wositscalled and her insistance that the Doc save the Roman family spring to mind. She also does moments of being overwhelemd and lost well. Yeah, so once in a while she sounds a bit like herself but I think by and large she's performed adequately. I would agree that the Christmas special she was in was horrible but I stand by my opinion that she's being unfairly criticised by people who don't like her comedy series (as it happens, I don't to be honest) or are perhaps pissed off that she's not scantily clad and simpering. I think she's actually quite a decent foil to Tennant's energy.


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 8, 2008)

tangerinedream said:


> I don't think it's as cynical as that to be honest in this instance. Doctor Who wanted a known name to play a more feisty companion. The ability to create humour is also a must in the rebooted version. Tate is known for playing feisty comic roles. I think that's an example of casting someone in a role. Occaisionally Tate is guilty of sounding like, er, Tate.
> 
> I think though she has played some moments of subtlety very well - her outrage over the treatment of the ood, her sympathy toward the thick girl who got eaten by the vashta wositscalled and her insistance that the Doc save the Roman family spring to mind. She also does moments of being overwhelemd and lost well. Yeah, so once in a while she sounds a bit like herself but I think by and large she's performed adequately. I would agree that the Christmas special she was in was horrible but I stand by my opinion that she's being unfairly criticised by people who don't like her comedy series (as it happens, I don't to be honest) *or are perhaps pissed off that she's not scantily clad and simpering*. I think she's actually quite a decent foil to Tennant's energy.




That bit in bold. Read some horrendously sexist slagging off of her as being 'middle aged' by some TV reviewer in the Mirror. Because she's, like, the same age as the doctor roughly..?

I don't think she's doing all that badly and that's from someone who really doesn't like her comedy series at all.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 8, 2008)

I think some people are just biased and criticize her easily cause she knew nothing about the show before she joined it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2008)

I was one of those who thought the casting a disaster, untill I actually saw her in it. The dynamic between her and the doctor works, in a quirky way. And it's so nice to have a companion who doesn't fancy the doctor


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 8, 2008)

i cannot believe tate gets criticised after martha jones - the actress playing her made the last series truly painful to watch.  she genuinely cannot act.

now if these boys were honest (and i believe i've only seen male posers criticise tate) and complained on the basis that they don't fancy her - then that's fine.  when tennant leaves if they replace him with just about anyone other than adrian lester i'll bemoan the lack of eye-candy...  but it won't make the replacement a bad actor.

anyway - last night.

river song.  implied v. strongly on confidential that she's his wife.  and my reading is that - at least when she meets him he's still tennant (otherwise, while she may have recognised him, she would have known straight away that he'd never met her before).  but donna clearly dies before they meet.  alex kingston will have to come back before tennant can leave - and you can't keep actresses with good careers hangoing on forever...  i reckon we'll see her in the finale.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 8, 2008)

I dunno Spangles, there's already an Elizabeth I storyline to tie up and I reckon they won't  If you're going to point out the joys of the space time continuum, at least tie up your loose ends. Otherwise there'll be paradox all over the place


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 8, 2008)

Is this on again today? I missed it yesterday.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 8, 2008)

8pm BBC3


----------



## Vash (Jun 8, 2008)

That was the best episode since the first series (not 60's one) and tate's perfomrance was the best yet.  Shame they'd be more likely to bring back Freema than Tate.


----------



## Socialist Cynic (Jun 8, 2008)

No, Martha Jones _was_ pretty shocking, and Tennant has gotten way too far into the Who as God thing, but Tate worsts both of them afaic. Jones was at least so bland that she didn't actively get in the way of the storyline, and Tennant is at least somewhat endearing in the way he overacts. Tate is just screamingly awful and doesn't have the sense to tone it down so she's not actively making the scenes she's in stumble like a Friday night drunk whenever she speaks.

Honestly, I was quite pleased when they casted people who weren't just sexy girls (loved Captain Jack) alongside the doctor, and the leap from 'doesn't like Tate' to 'wants eye candy' doesn't apply to my criticisms here. Tangerine's examples of her emoting over the Pompeii destruction and the ood were the ones which hacked me off most - she stopped the flow of the scenes dead in their tracks while she screwed her face up a bit and did "appalled" and "shocked". You could practically hear the creaking as she levered her features into position. Very poor.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 8, 2008)

Socialist Cynic said:


> No, Martha Jones _was_ pretty shocking, and Tennant has gotten way too far into the Who as God thing, but Tate worsts both of them afaic. Jones was at least so bland that she didn't actively get in the way of the storyline, and Tennant is at least somewhat endearing in the way he overacts. Tate is just screamingly awful and doesn't have the sense to tone it down so she's not actively making the scenes she's in stumble like a Friday night drunk whenever she speaks.
> 
> Honestly, I was quite pleased when they casted people who weren't just sexy girls (loved Captain Jack) alongside the doctor, and the leap from 'doesn't like Tate' to 'wants eye candy' doesn't apply to my criticisms here. Tangerine's examples of her emoting over the Pompeii destruction and the ood were the ones which hacked me off most - she stopped the flow of the scenes dead in their tracks while she screwed her face up a bit and did "appalled" and "shocked". You could practically hear the creaking as she levered her features into position. Very poor.



No no no no - I think Tate recognises that the incredulity felt about being set free in space and time requires a rather heightened approach to emotion and thus I find her more believable than Martha who's blandness failed to convince in any way. She looked like she'd been told that she had a bit of a leaky pipe in the bathroom or the bus was late if the doctor said something like 'Martha, everyone's going to die!' whereas tate at least attempts the requisite astonishment. I'd rather someone tried and missed a bit than didn't try at all.

I agree, she's not judy Dench, but hey, I don't mind her. I'm not sure how much further we can take this discussion now!


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 8, 2008)

Balbi said:


> I dunno Spangles, there's already an Elizabeth I storyline to tie up and I reckon they won't  If you're going to point out the joys of the space time continuum, at least tie up your loose ends. Otherwise there'll be paradox all over the place



weeell, no.

the elizabeth I encounter (and the "thing with a lizard" at the end of blink) could have happened / be going to happen on one of the oft alluded to adventures that we don't see.  you can't do that with a character who is clearly with him for years.  he can't marry her and have a book full of adventures between episodes, then turn up next episode and carry on as normal.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 8, 2008)

I dunno. The thing with the lizard was more of a device for Moffat to excuse the Doctor for the episode. Elizabeth I was genuinely hacked off, and most importantly said only 'DOCTOR' and ignored Martha (smart woman Lizzy 1st ). A decent episode has to turn up!


----------



## Iguana (Jun 8, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> i cannot believe tate gets criticised after martha jones - the actress playing her made the last series truly painful to watch.  she genuinely cannot act.
> 
> now if these boys were honest (and i believe i've only seen male posers criticise tate)



I'm a heterosexual woman and I _really_ don't like Tate.  I agree that Freema is a much worse actor.  In fact I wouldn't count Freema as an actor at all as she can not act.  But Tate annoys me more, because Donna is a much more interesting character.  I think Donna played by a talented actor would be the best and most interesting of the companions of the last 4 series.  But Tate just doesn't do justice to her.


----------



## Socialist Cynic (Jun 8, 2008)

> I think Tate recognises that the incredulity felt about being set free in space and time requires a rather heightened approach to emotion



lol hadn't thought of that, don't agree with it but good line. I tend to think the Michael Caine approach (minimal facial stretching, realism relying on camera work to pick up nuance) gets it right, rather than theatre-style exaggeration to reach the back of the crowd which simply doesn't translate well to close-ups.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 8, 2008)

Criticism of Tate aside, I can't believe some people are quibbling about that episode.  What do you want from Dr Who?  Beckett?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 8, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Criticism of Tate aside, I can't believe some people are quibbling about that episode.  What do you want from Dr Who?  Beckett?



People just like to complain, i think.


----------



## Socialist Cynic (Jun 8, 2008)

In my experience, it's more that people don't complain when they should, and do complain when it's irrelevant. I try and do a healthy measure of one and a shot of the other .

On the other hand, I do get tired of people complaining about complainers - I mean how do you think things are supposed to improve if no-one ever sticks their oar in?


----------



## MikeMcc (Jun 8, 2008)

Did I miss something on this episode, but what happened about the shadows?  It seemed that, for some reason, they said he could have some time to download all the 'saved' souls, but didn't seem to resolve anything as far as they were concerned.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 8, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> i reckon we'll see her in the finale.



I suspect the finale is going to be a bit full character-wise as it is – maybe in one of next year's specials? I'm not saying anything else because of spoilers...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 8, 2008)

Socialist Cynic said:


> In my experience, it's more that people don't complain when they should, and do complain when it's irrelevant. I try and do a healthy measure of one and a shot of the other .
> 
> On the other hand, I do get tired of people complaining about complainers - I mean how do you think things are supposed to improve if no-one ever sticks their oar in?



Thing is, what they say wont improve anything and it just seems like pointless complaining in this case over a tv programme which is just well,...stupid. And some people here seem unsatisfied no matter what.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 8, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Criticism of Tate aside, I can't believe some people are quibbling about that episode.  What do you want from Dr Who?  Beckett?



Agreed. I thought it was one of the best ever who storys. Intellignet, breathtakingly imaginative, moving, poignent, distrubing,  and  very scary. What more could you ask from a mainstream family drama? Pisses on anything that start trek or buffy have ever done.  

I could quibble about the 'its all allright really', sentimental last five minutes - but then without that sort of reassurence you'd have to put it on post watershed - and its primarily a programme made for kids to enjoy.

And i think Tates alright.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 8, 2008)

MikeMcc said:


> Did I miss something on this episode, but what happened about the shadows?  It seemed that, for some reason, they said he could have some time to download all the 'saved' souls, but didn't seem to resolve anything as far as they were concerned.




But we were told the only thing to do when faced with Vashda Nerada was to run. The Doctor bought 24 hours with his reputation.


----------



## MikeMcc (Jun 8, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> But we were told the only thing to do when faced with Vashda Nerada was to run. The Doctor bought 24 hours with his reputation.


But what happens after the 24 hours?  Do they massacre the people that were brought back?


----------



## maomao (Jun 8, 2008)

MikeMcc said:


> But what happens after the 24 hours?  Do they massacre the people that were brought back?




No because by that time they will have evacuated.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 8, 2008)

MikeMcc said:


> But what happens after the 24 hours?  Do they massacre the people that were brought back?



The people were teleporting off the planet at the end  Including Tate's squeeze.

The Vashta Nerada get their planet, the computer gets to live and .... etc etc


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 8, 2008)

soooo....the Dr. is banging his daughter? 

damn you people getting these episodes three months before me


----------



## maomao (Jun 8, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> soooo....the Dr. is banging his daughter?
> 
> damn you people getting these episodes three months before me




Can't be 3 months, we say the doctor's daughter 3-4 weeks ago.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 8, 2008)

The Doctor leaving that diary where anyone can find it seemed a little silly of him. Any enemy who wants to track him down will now know exactly where and when he's going to show up. Of course anyone who finds the diary will probably get eaten by the shadow monsters before they have a chance to do anything about it, but what are the chances those things can munch through a dalek?


----------



## Gromit (Jun 8, 2008)

Its a book. He left it un-indexed in a library the size of a world.

The only ones likely to find it are those that already know its there. The Doctor and Donna.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 8, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Moffat really is ever so good.



He is indeed, I can't understand why he's spent so long writing deeply average sitcoms up to now


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 10, 2008)

Just seen the latest episode on the _On Demand _service.

Yes, very good Mr Moffatt: no-one dies. Again. Which is beginning to undermine any sense of threat the stories have if we know there'll be a re-set bring-back-to-life switch at the end for everyone. 

Another creche-load of child charecters again as well.

I really, really hope the above two points aren't going to be the constant shape of things to come when he takes over.

Other than that, excellent story and perhaps the closest to old-style "clasic" 'who for a long time.

7/10


----------



## strung out (Jun 10, 2008)

well... all the astronauts did die didn't they? it's just their conciousness is now in a big computer.


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 10, 2008)

strung_out said:


> well... all the astronauts did die didn't they? *it's just their conciousness is now in a big computer.*



Yes - and I thought it was a bit of a cop-out.


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2008)

there's a surprise.

It must have been  a pretty shit hot couple of episodes if _no one_ is dissecting any of the humungous number of massive plot holes in it.


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2008)

Socialist Cynic said:


> Tangerine's examples of her emoting over the Pompeii destruction and the ood were the ones which hacked me off most - she stopped the flow of the scenes dead in their tracks while she screwed her face up a bit and did "appalled" and "shocked". You could practically hear the creaking as she levered her features into position. Very poor.



rubbish.  What you are criticising here is the writing, not her performance. RTD's appalling excess of sentimentality. Even the Holy Billy couldn't create beauty out of such mush.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 10, 2008)

belboid said:


> It must have been  a pretty shit hot couple of episodes if _no one_ is dissecting any of the humungous number of massive plot holes in it.



You've not been reading this thread have you


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2008)

Yes, and what is criticised in these two episodes are not the actual plot holes.

eg - 'dont step into the shadows' - before running down a corridor full of shadows.  'who says 'saved'?  No one says 'saved.''  Uhh, actually, I think you'll find they do.  Not to mention smoething derided as a simple swarm suddenly developing not just consciousness, but a conscience, or at least the ability to read.  Total nonsense.  But magnificent nonsense.


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 10, 2008)

belboid said:


> there's a surprise.
> 
> It must have been  a pretty shit hot couple of episodes if _no one_ is dissecting any of the humungous number of massive plot holes in it.



Well, I'm not entirely happy with it but it was probably the best story this season has offered so far.

The overload of slushy shmaltz is waayyy out of hand, now, I agree, and comes across as really crowbarred in where it could do without.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 10, 2008)

belboid said:


> Total nonsense.  But magnificent nonsense.



There you go then 

There were more than enough clever bits to outweigh the stupid bits, that's all that matters to me.


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2008)

that's what I said in the first place!

shome people...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 10, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> The Doctor leaving that diary where anyone can find it seemed a little silly of him. Any enemy who wants to track him down will now know exactly where and when he's going to show up.


And with next year's series replaced by a handful of (one hour?) specials, I'd put my money on that being at least one of the strands.  An enemy turning up at all the wrong moments?  How can this be?

Remember the Dr saying "You're in the largest library in the universe: look me up!"?  Well, don't you know it: there in the biography section, his very movements are detailed.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 10, 2008)

bah, bloody edit facility!


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 10, 2008)

.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 10, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Shame the title of the link _itself_ gives it away a bit...



Which is why I immediately edited my post - suggest you do likewise...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 10, 2008)

.


----------



## Malamud (Jun 10, 2008)

belboid said:


> Total nonsense.  But magnificent nonsense.



Doesn't that apply to all science fiction until it becomes science fact?


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2008)

maybe, but that has nowt to do with the massive plot holes and contradictions that I was referring to.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 11, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> Which is why I immediately edited my post - suggest you do likewise...


Eh?


----------



## PacificOcean (Jun 11, 2008)

It doesn't take much to confuse me but that episode left me a bit


----------



## 8den (Jun 11, 2008)

Marius said:


> Its a book. He left it un-indexed in a library the size of a world.
> 
> The only ones likely to find it are those that already know its there. The Doctor and Donna.



Not to meant that the entire planet is populated by a thousand million piranha creatures that live in the shadows


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 13, 2008)

Tonite SciFi is showing "The Unicorn and the Wasp".....was that one any good??


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 13, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> Tonite SciFi is showing "The Unicorn and the Wasp".....was that one any good??


 
Not bad. Better than anything else Seppistan TV will have.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 13, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Not bad. Better than anything else Seppistan TV will have.



ok, just wanted to know what i'm in for, thanx


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 14, 2008)

10 more minutes


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 14, 2008)

yea it was a pretty good episode....more adult oriented


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 14, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Eh?



I posted a link to a big spoiler but the url contained the name of the character in it, so I hastily withdrew it. Here's the character in question (he/she isn't named in the url this time)...

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2128586740102948996zIEzhY


----------



## wishface (Jun 14, 2008)




----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 14, 2008)

^^^

for the win


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 14, 2008)

^ Lol

Dotcommunist beat me to it.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 14, 2008)

Good episode atm.


----------



## Melinda (Jun 14, 2008)

This is a wicked episode!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 14, 2008)

Oooh look whose back in the next episode.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 14, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Oooh look whose back in the next episode.



who?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 14, 2008)

Rose.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 14, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Rose.


----------



## story (Jun 14, 2008)

Blimey.

That was pretty good.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 14, 2008)

That was a cracking episode. Glad this season has picked up.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 14, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Rose.



grins and rubs hands together and waits for 3-4 weeks


----------



## spirals (Jun 14, 2008)

That was the best one yet!


----------



## Melinda (Jun 14, 2008)

DC do you pay for BBC America? Why not Torrent?


----------



## story (Jun 14, 2008)

spirals said:


> That was the best one yet!



Nah, the Don't Blink angels win for me


----------



## Belushi (Jun 14, 2008)

spirals said:


> That was the best one yet!



That was the best one yet!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 14, 2008)

What a brilliant episode 

Donna should stay at home more often, it wouldn't have worked with her there as well...

e2a: tagline changed in honour of that episode.


----------



## story (Jun 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> What a brilliant episode
> 
> Donna should stay at home more often, it wouldn't have worked with her there as well...



Totally agree with this.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 14, 2008)

Belushi said:


> That was the best one yet!



_Don't_ do that 

*shits self*


----------



## story (Jun 14, 2008)

Belushi said:


> That was the best one yet!






spirals said:


> That was the best one yet!



*shudders*


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 14, 2008)

story said:


> Totally agree with this.



I also agree, i guessed the writers realized this and had to think of a way to keep her off the screen for a while.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 14, 2008)

story said:


> *shudders*



*shudders*


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 14, 2008)

Very good. That repeating thing was very creepy


----------



## Melinda (Jun 14, 2008)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> *shudders*


Stop that.


----------



## story (Jun 14, 2008)

Melinda said:


> Stop that.



Stop that.


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 14, 2008)

story said:


> Nah, the Don't Blink angels win for me



I missed that one but will have to buy the DVD. For once I wasn't cooking and didn't miss this. 
It was pretty good.  I also liked the doctor was stumped about something - more vulnerable- and didn't sort out the universe in the usual 40 minutes.


----------



## story (Jun 14, 2008)

There are going to be loads of kids copycatting each other at school next week, eh 


(((scaredy kiddies)))


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 14, 2008)

Fairly good but the resolution wasn't completely satisfying. The stewardess not quite developed enough as a character for her self-sacrifice to be climactic. 8.5


----------



## liampreston (Jun 14, 2008)

Oh blast it forgot about this episode! Right, iPlayer it is then....


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 14, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I also agree, i guessed the writers realized this and had to think of a way to keep her off screen for a while.



Nah,the way it worked out with filming this year is that there is a Tate lite and a Tennant Lite episode (presumably that's next week)

Good episode, though. Simple premise, but effective


----------



## wishface (Jun 14, 2008)

Creepy but with an ending of pure fail.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 14, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Fairly good but the resolution wasn't completely satisfying. The stewardess not quite developed enough as a character for her self-sacrifice to be climactic. 8.5




tbh, I wanted the goateed twat to die. The head of the lynch mob and his hectoring missis made me


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 14, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I wanted the goateed twat to die.


 
I hear that far too often


----------



## story (Jun 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> e2a: tagline changed in honour of that episode.



tagline changed in honour of that episode


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 14, 2008)

Ah, *waits for the overly serious discussions about the negatives of the show to begin*....


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 14, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I also agree, i guessed the writers realized this and had to think of a way to keep her off the screen for a while.


Fucksake, it's because Catherine Tate needed a holiday. Last couple of years, they've done "Doctor-lite episodes (Love & Monsters and Blink) in which the Doctor and the companion were barely there. This year they've played with the format a bit, doing a Doctor-solo story without Donna, and next week a Donna-solo story minus the Doctor.

Tate's bloody good in next week's one, too, giving the lie to your sniping.


----------



## wishface (Jun 14, 2008)

well for me this season has been a washout. Can't pretend that I liked it so if that makes me negative then so be it. Everything apart from the Sontaran story, which was great, really has been pretty lame. I wish they'd just resort to some simple storytelling and not end up convoluting everything. I found it difficult to get immersed in the paranoia the situation tonight engendered simply because the monster was too alien and wasn't explained at all, unlike, say the Impossible Planet story. That was much better.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 14, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> Tate's bloody good in next week's one,


 
Is this a wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey thing?


----------



## Belushi (Jun 14, 2008)

> I wish they'd just resort to some simple storytelling and not end up convoluting everything.



What was convuluted about tonights episode? it was a very simple premise.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 14, 2008)

wishface said:


> Creepy but with an ending of pure fail.



What did you dislike about the ending?


----------



## yardbird (Jun 14, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Is this a wibbly-wobbly timey-wimey thing?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 14, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Fairly good but the resolution wasn't completely satisfying. The stewardess not quite developed enough as a character for her self-sacrifice to be climactic. 8.5



...which point was made clear by the 'did anyone know her name' bit at the end, the point being that this woman none of them knew had just saved their lives and they were unable to wrap their heads around that. 

[Tangent]I think the whole episode was an allegory for the paranoid climate of a Britain under the horribly vague threat of terrorism. It's all in there; the dangers of not knowing who your enemy is; how overreaction and panic can aid an evil cause; mistrust and fear of strangers as a natural yet counterproductive reaction; and the insularity and selfishness of modern society as a whole. Obviously, the setting (a train carriage) carries July 7th connotations in this respect. The moral of the story is that the best way to fight evil is to stick together and give people the benefit of the doubt  [/tangent]


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 14, 2008)

story said:


> tagline changed in honour of that episode



Oh very good


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> ...which point was made clear by the 'did anyone know her name' bit at the end, the point being that this woman none of them knew had just saved their lives and they were unable to wrap their heads around that.
> 
> [Tangent]I think the whole episode was an allegory for the paranoid climate of a Britain under the horribly vague threat of terrorism. It's all in there; the dangers of not knowing who your enemy is; how overreaction and panic can aid an evil cause; mistrust and fear of strangers as a natural yet counterproductive reaction; and the insularity and selfishness of modern society as a whole. Obviously, the setting (a train carriage) carries July 7th connotations in this respect. The moral of the story is that the best way to fight evil is to stick together and give people the benefit of the doubt  [/tangent]



@tangent

telling use of the word 'immigrant' at one point


----------



## wishface (Jun 14, 2008)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> What did you dislike about the ending?


My problem really is that the threat was so vague that it didn't feel threatening.

They wanted something like that old twiight zone episode where everyone in a small town neighbourhood turns on each other just becaus some street lights go out and from that people start thinking it's the village of the damned. A very well told and well played story. This episode of Who didn't work that way because there was an outside threat and so it took away the irrationality somewhat, took the edge off it. Consequently the ending was very simplistic with a no mark character suddenly deciding to have a heroic moment. 

Just didn't work for me.

Plus I'm getting fed up with the way everyone in the future is so quintessentially English and modern day ordinary. It's so fake.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 14, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> @tangent
> 
> telling use of the word 'immigrant' at one point



'I'm a traveller...'
'You mean like an _immigrant?_'

Perhaps I wasn't as clever as I thought in picking out the subtext after all


----------



## wishface (Jun 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> ...which point was made clear by the 'did anyone know her name' bit at the end, the point being that this woman none of them knew had just saved their lives and they were unable to wrap their heads around that.
> 
> [Tangent]I think the whole episode was an allegory for the paranoid climate of a Britain under the horribly vague threat of terrorism. It's all in there; the dangers of not knowing who your enemy is; how overreaction and panic can aid an evil cause; mistrust and fear of strangers as a natural yet counterproductive reaction; and the insularity and selfishness of modern society as a whole. Obviously, the setting (a train carriage) carries July 7th connotations in this respect. The moral of the story is that the best way to fight evil is to stick together and give people the benefit of the doubt  [/tangent]


but the presence of such a moral lesson in the story doesn't actually reflect on it's quality.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 14, 2008)

wishface said:


> Plus I'm getting fed up with the way everyone in the future is so quintessentially English and modern day ordinary. It's so fake.



Yeah, they should get out there and cast some fucking aliens 

Remember that the TARDIS translates everything so the protagonists hear speech as they are used to hearing it. For Donna, Martha etc this amounts to 21st century British English because they are from 21st century Britain.

_*Disclaimer: I will be on this thread shooting down any and all criticisms of this episode until everyone finally admits that it was the best thing ever shown on TV. So the naysayers might as well give up now.*_


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 14, 2008)

wishface said:


> but the presence of such a moral lesson in the story doesn't actually reflect on it's quality.



No, but the fact that it was fucking brilliant does


----------



## story (Jun 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> [Tangent]I think the whole episode was an allegory for the paranoid climate of a Britain under the horribly vague threat of terrorism. It's all in there; the dangers of not knowing who your enemy is; how overreaction and panic can aid an evil cause; mistrust and fear of strangers as a natural yet counterproductive reaction; and the insularity and selfishness of modern society as a whole. Obviously, the setting (a train carriage) carries July 7th connotations in this respect. The moral of the story is that the best way to fight evil is to stick together and give people the benefit of the doubt  [/tangent]




Yeah, that seemed fairly clear pretty early, imo.


----------



## story (Jun 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Oh very good



*whistles innocently*


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 14, 2008)

story said:


> Yeah, that seemed fairly clear pretty early, imo.



Oh sod off 

Can't anyone let me feel clever just for ten minutes?


----------



## story (Jun 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Oh sod off
> 
> Can't anyone let me feel clever just for ten minutes?



Oh but it was a good 20 minutes, I think, between your exceptionally clever and insightful reading and my agreement.

Incidentally, I thought you wrote your tangent very well


----------



## wishface (Jun 14, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> No, but the fact that it was fucking brilliant does


fucking brilliant is in the eye of the fucking beholder


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 14, 2008)

wishface said:


> Just didn't work for me.



Fair enough.



> Plus I'm getting fed up with the way everyone in the future is so quintessentially English and modern day ordinary. It's so fake.



See, this is something I don't understand.The RTD revival, at its best, has gone out of its way to try and expose the core audience (kids, btw, unless you haven't realised this yet) to complex issues, and all done while still trying to scare the little bastards senseless. Race, sexuality, the nature and the consequences of the use of power have all been addressed. If thinking  about these things, and telling them in a prime time Saturday show,  is to you "English" and "fake", than I suggest that you may well have lost any kind of perspective about what being English is. You know - being, at best, the good guys - and I'm a fucking Scotsman. In other words, take your self-loathing and fucking stuff it up your arse.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 14, 2008)

wishface said:


> fucking brilliant is in the eye of the fucking beholder



You're wrong. That epsiode is in fact the only thing ever created by mankind that has intrinsic value, the only thing in a godless universe governed by the whims of the quantum foam in the depths of the vacuum of space that can be said to have any objective existence whatsoever. This remains true depsite the fact that there are no other objective entities in the universe to perceive it and despite the fact that it was itself created by transient, debatable organisms and has no physical form independant of various digital storage media. That epsiode was so good it actually reaches all the way through the space time continuum back to the moment of the big bang, where it governs the structure of the universe to ensure that the conditions needed for it's future creation remain in place. Straddling the 11-dimensional matrix of all that ever was or ever will be, this episode of Doctor Who keeps every last proton, every last wisp of electromagnetic radiation, on its true course and moving inexorably towards it's ultimate destiny; namely to allow for the broadcasting of The Great Episode on BBC one a couple of hours ago. It is at once the ultimate paradox and the unifying heart and purpose of all creation. So there


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 14, 2008)

Blah


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 14, 2008)

lol

Seems the overly serious discussions have begun. All i know is the start of the series was shit, last 3 episodes have been how it should be. That is all.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 14, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> lol
> 
> Seems the overly serious discussions have begun.



 Aye, no doubt.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 14, 2008)

I could see that was good.  But I didn't like it, if that makes sense.  I've never liked the disaster movie format: it just isn't my thing.

But my kids liked it.  Then the 12 year old repeated the 8 year old and made her cry, and I had to read her a story to calm her down.

So they'll remember it as classic Dr Who.


----------



## Vash (Jun 14, 2008)

It didn't explain what the creature was or even what it was trying to do.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 14, 2008)

Melinda said:


> DC do you pay for BBC America? Why not Torrent?



no, i get the episodes on The SciFi Channel about a month after you do....its part of my basic cable package which has around 50 channels but no international ones.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 14, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> no, i get the episodes on The SciFi Channel about a month after you do....its part of my basic cable package which has around 50 channels but no international ones.




These episodes are usually on torrent about 2 days after airing in UK. Sod the cable package, download ftw


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 14, 2008)

Vash said:


> It didn't explain what the creature was or even what it was trying to do.



It was a terrorism allegory, apparently. Invisible enemy, hysterical fear, witch hunts - all neatly packaged in a train carriage. Goth-boy was fit as fuck. Shouldn't do his nail varnish right to the sides, though; leaving a mm gap to the sides and bottom avoids the 'sausage fingers' look


----------



## rollinder (Jun 14, 2008)

that was fucking beyond great 

missed the first ten minutes - nearly didn't switch on, hooked straight away



felt like pre Who (Second Coming) Russel - this was one of his? 
felt like a New Adventure


was the Christmas Kylie episode done right

Spookyfrank/Story - didn't pick up on the terorism/threat angle (probably me being slow today ) 

I'm finding it extra hard to put how I feel about it into words (fucking ironic )
it was that powerful 

The Doctor at his most symbolic as a voice for the voicelesness  &/or  being used against him &/or taken literlly

ways/degrees of marginization
hirachy of opression

was the alien even a genuine threat or just an extreme outsider desperetly wanting to be accepted via bluffing their way in - faking conformety and the second they're accepted turning on the next weakest?


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 15, 2008)

That was class.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 15, 2008)

wishface said:


> Creepy but with an ending of pure fail.



facey hates summit AGAIN quelle suprise...

i thought the ending was quite good tbh very classical with the exposure of the flaws with in the human charchter...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 15, 2008)

wishface said:


> fucking brilliant is in the eye of the fucking beholder



sadly time in time out it appears your eyes are made entirely from jade...

i want to see a fully realises script for your version of that episode actually as well as your console game music film and indeed any art form what so ever there isn't a piece of creative output out this year that you seemed to have liked.

if you keep coming at these different things with the same answer sooner or later you have to notice the common denominator surely...


----------



## wishface (Jun 15, 2008)

There's plenty of things I like, I just don't see a need to shout about it. It's not my problem if you judge people as miserable old buggers because they don't shout about it. Your point is rather simple minded and facile: I've already stated that there are episodes I do like. Honestly, if you are going to say stuff like this, at least try to be accurate!

Do you think I'm going to start a thread so I can extoll the virtues of media I do like just to appease you; are you that insecure? What would be the point of that if not to invite criticism from people who in turn don't like what I like?

Do we live in some happy clapper wet dream where people who - shock horror! - don't like things that other like are automatically miserabl old gits? What a wonderful shallow world that is! Yum!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 15, 2008)

Well if you don't like it then just stop watching. I nearly did until it started getting good. Its just a tv programme, funny how we all enjoyed it but you didn't, eh?


----------



## liampreston (Jun 15, 2008)

I was wary that it would go a little, well, typically RTD, but how pleased was I to see it go into such a strong episode. Not to see (Or name) the "force" was quite unusual, and the group mentality (whilst a little obvious) was very well done. I think posters who have said that this series has only just started getting good are right, the past few episodes have really got going...and as for the trailer for next week... :wows:


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 15, 2008)

Agreed, the trailer for next week looks good  to. For some reason i got the feeling we would understand a bit more about the enemy in this most recent episode in a future one. Might be wrong though.


----------



## wishface (Jun 15, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Well if you don't like it then just stop watching. I nearly did until it started getting good. Its just a tv programme, funny how we all enjoyed it but you didn't, eh?


None of that makes any sense.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 15, 2008)

It sort of does. A bit


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 15, 2008)

wishface said:


> None of that makes any sense.



What, telling you to stop watching something you don't like doesn't make sense to you? What a surprise. I don't expect you to understand common sense.


----------



## feyr (Jun 15, 2008)

did rose appearr on the entertainment console briefly at one point in this episode? i thought i saw her but then wasnt sure?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 15, 2008)

Dunno, i just know she appeared in the trailer for the next episode.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 15, 2008)

feyr said:


> did rose appearr on the entertainment console briefly at one point in this episode? i thought i saw her but then wasnt sure?



Yeah, apparently shouting 'doctor' again


----------



## Melinda (Jun 15, 2008)

feyr said:


> did rose appearr on the entertainment console briefly at one point in this episode? i thought i saw her but then wasnt sure?



Yes, she was screaming silently at the Doctor while he had his back to the console. 

Next weeks looks good.


----------



## wiskey (Jun 15, 2008)

I found last nights scary and I regretted not having a sofa to hide behind!


----------



## emanymton (Jun 15, 2008)

It was OK but like many things (including the last 2 partier) it suffered from a better set up than resolution leaving me a little deflated at the end.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 15, 2008)

feyr said:


> did rose appearr on the entertainment console briefly at one point in this episode? i thought i saw her but then wasnt sure?



yes as she has done for snatches along nearly every episode except the libary ones.... (where arguably she might have been in it in order for river song to have known the doctors real name.)


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 15, 2008)

wishface said:


> There's plenty of things I like, I just don't see a need to shout about it. It's not my problem if you judge people as miserable old buggers because they don't shout about it. Your point is rather simple minded and facile: I've already stated that there are episodes I do like. Honestly, if you are going to say stuff like this, at least try to be accurate!
> 
> Do you think I'm going to start a thread so I can extoll the virtues of media I do like just to appease you; are you that insecure? What would be the point of that if not to invite criticism from people who in turn don't like what I like?
> 
> Do we live in some happy clapper wet dream where people who - shock horror! - don't like things that other like are automatically miserabl old gits? What a wonderful shallow world that is! Yum!



problem is facey you don't like anything there's never been a pst on here where you've said oooo that was good or really enjoy x or y... 

anbody who want's to go back throug your old post will see the same comments week in week out about nearly any subject you just comes accross as a permenant miserbate. 

still there's no helping people sometimes so you carry on being 'critical'  my guess is that you've been 'critical' about a great deal in your life which is why you come accross as someone with little to no joy in their lives... 

I'd imagine you'd find fault with being given cake ....


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 15, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Agreed, the trailer for next week looks good  to. For some reason i got the feeling we would understand a bit more about the enemy in this most recent episode in a future one. Might be wrong though.



there's been a recurrent theme as people have said which is light over dark for the entire series which i think will be tied in to these final episodes.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 15, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes as she has done for snatches along nearly every episode except the libary ones.... (where arguably she might have been in it in order for river song to have known the doctors real name.)



She was in that one as well.

In CALs room where she was watching the TV. On the wall were two crayon drawings. One was a blond girl who looked like Rose. The other was a wolf...


----------



## emanymton (Jun 15, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> there's been a recurrent theme as people have said which is light over dark for the entire series which i think will be tied in to these final episodes.



Apart from the last one where light was the danger


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 15, 2008)

emanymton said:


> Apart from the last one where light was the danger



which doesn't fit in with light and dark how??


----------



## emanymton (Jun 15, 2008)

I meant darkness is the danger normally

Thinks back over series to see how true this is


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 15, 2008)

emanymton said:


> I meant darkness is the danger normally
> 
> Thinks back over series to see how true this is



well the unseen which was the monster in the last one where as the light saved them...


----------



## emanymton (Jun 15, 2008)

Nah the only dangers in the last one where the light and the people.


----------



## wishface (Jun 15, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> What, telling you to stop watching something you don't like doesn't make sense to you? What a surprise. I don't expect you to understand common sense.


How do i know if i won't like it unless I watch it? Are you some kind of TV fascist now? How about this: I'll watch what i want, and I'll form opinions about it that don't threaten your insecurities.


----------



## wishface (Jun 15, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> problem is facey you don't like anything there's never been a pst on here where you've said oooo that was good or really enjoy x or y...
> 
> anbody who want's to go back throug your old post will see the same comments week in week out about nearly any subject you just comes accross as a permenant miserbate.
> 
> ...



Depends what kind of cake, I value my shatner's bassoon.

Though really, there isn't much of a problem other than you not being able to cope with a simple difference of opinion and bleating about it on here.

anyone who wants to trawl through an internet forum to see what i think about tv episodes perhaps should get a life instead.

making comments about the value of someone's life over the internet because they didn't like a dr who episode really is made of the purest fail there is.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 15, 2008)

wishface said:


> Depends what kind of cake, I value my shatner's bassoon.
> 
> Though really, there isn't much of a problem other than you not being able to cope with a simple difference of opinion and bleating about it on here.
> 
> ...



but consistantly only sayin gi hate this didn't like that is indicative of an overall approach to life.  permenant affected disdane is one of the dullest cliches to have ever been invented. and you are a prime example. of it.

you do this on loads of threads to the point where actually i'm begining to doubt you've played half the games you 'reviw' or watch half the programs you claim to have 'seen' or conversely think it's somehow edgy cool or oprinal to show your distaste for everything. 

it really isn't....


----------



## wishface (Jun 15, 2008)

mate, if you aren't even going to read what I write then what's the point?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 15, 2008)

wishface said:


> mate, if you aren't even going to read what I write then what's the point?



sadly i do read what you write and it's almost universally negative.

as i said if you keep arriving at the same outcome regardless of circumstance you need to look at the common denominator.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 15, 2008)

wishface said:


> How do i know if i won't like it unless I watch it? Are you some kind of TV fascist now? How about this: I'll watch what i want, and I'll form opinions about it that don't threaten your insecurities.



Lmfao.  

I'm not insecure about what you're saying, just bored as all hell with you apparently being a 'fan' of this show yet you are always the one criticizing it even when its good. Some 'fan' you're. Doubt i'll bother reading what you have to say in future,  cause i can pretty much guess it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 15, 2008)

Step back and look at yourselves. Arguing about Doctor Who. On the internet. LOOK AT YOURSELVES


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 15, 2008)

I've been telling them that for ages.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 15, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Lmfao.
> 
> I'm not insecure about what you're saying, just bored as all hell with you apparently being a 'fan' of this show yet you are always the one criticizing it even when its good. Some 'fan' you're.



this goes also for whingeface's ( oops sorry wishface') posts on the gta vi and xbox 360 thread , he/she gets the same sort of answers from peeps on there , also in the tech forums anyone who doesnt give the exact advice thats being asked for the toys get well and truly thrown out of the pram , dunno why they bother tbh.......

tbh all the whinging makes me laugh


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 15, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> LOOK AT YOURSELVES



mmm sexsi ....


----------



## Socialist Cynic (Jun 15, 2008)

Good episode,liked the fact that the doctor was basically unable to to solve the problem and had to be saved for once, made it much darker and more tense than the other recent ones. I also thought donna's role was just right .


----------



## wishface (Jun 15, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Lmfao.
> 
> I'm not insecure about what you're saying, just bored as all hell with you apparently being a 'fan' of this show yet you are always the one criticizing it even when its good. Some 'fan' you're. Doubt i'll bother reading what you have to say in future,  cause i can pretty much guess it.


fan = blinkered obsessive?

Then, no I'm not a fan. Just someone who watches a TV show that used to be good. This season has been made of failonium. Hopefully this end of season arc will prove good. But if it doesn't then I fully intend that I shall be saying so on here. Enjoy it.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 15, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Step back and look at yourselves. Arguing about Doctor Who. On the internet. LOOK AT YOURSELVES



Throw him out.


----------



## wishface (Jun 15, 2008)

ruffneck23 said:


> this goes also for whingeface's ( oops sorry wishface') posts on the gta vi and xbox 360 thread , he/she gets the same sort of answers from peeps on there , also in the tech forums anyone who doesnt give the exact advice thats being asked for the toys get well and truly thrown out of the pram , dunno why they bother tbh.......
> 
> tbh all the whinging makes me laugh


what whinging, exactly? Saying that I didn't like the episode is not winging. Fuck off with that shit.


----------



## Pingu (Jun 15, 2008)

not too sure what to makea bout last nights ep

the story was reasonably classic (and the scare the shit out of kids potential was ace) who but it just didnt do it for me.

dunno why but it didnt.

maybe it was all the shouting which got on my tits a bit


----------



## wishface (Jun 15, 2008)

Blink really set the standard imo.


----------



## Virginia Plain (Jun 15, 2008)

I don't usually watch Doctor Who but I enjoyed this episode, it reminded me of the kind of story you'd find on Twilight Zone. And with shades of The Longoliers, I thought.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 15, 2008)

wishface said:


> fan = blinkered obsessive?
> 
> Then, no I'm not a fan. Just someone who watches a TV show that used to be good. This season has been made of failonium. Hopefully this end of season arc will prove good. But if it doesn't then I fully intend that I shall be saying so on here. Enjoy it.



No, a fan=someone who can actually find some enjoyment out of what they're watching, while also acknowledging when its shit. You're obsessive, its just you're obsessed with hating rather than liking it. I'm done arguing over a tv show anyway, do continue.


----------



## editor (Jun 15, 2008)

Socialist Cynic said:


> Good episode,liked the fact that the doctor was basically unable to to solve the problem and had to be saved for once, made it much darker and more tense than the other recent ones..


Yeah, I enjoyed it too. 

It was a quality script - the claustrophobic surroundings and characters reminded me a bit of of '12 Angry Men' - and the storyline was strong and intriguing.

It might have been a bit much for kids though!





TheHoodedClaw said:


> See, this is something I don't understand.The RTD revival, at its best, has gone out of its way to try and expose the core audience (kids, btw, unless you haven't realised this yet) to complex issues, and all done while still trying to scare the little bastards senseless. Race, sexuality, the nature and the consequences of the use of power have all been addressed. If thinking  about these things, and telling them in a prime time Saturday show,  is to you "English" and "fake", than I suggest that you may well have lost any kind of perspective about what being English is. You know - being, at best, the good guys - and I'm a fucking Scotsman. In other words, take your self-loathing and fucking stuff it up your arse.


Excellent post. Spot on.


----------



## big eejit (Jun 15, 2008)

Great episode I thought. Like a classical play - Aristotle's three unities and all that.

I loved the idea of the voice pouring hatred and distrust and into people's minds. No-one actually called The Daily Mail, but that's what kept coming into my mind.


----------



## Flashman (Jun 15, 2008)

Reminded me of Bradbury a little, if anyone's read The Martian Chronicles you'll know what I mean. 

Good stuff.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 15, 2008)

Cracking episode again


----------



## 8ball (Jun 15, 2008)

I enjoyed it a bit but felt it had flaws.  

Basically they could have all got cooked and I wouldn't have cared.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 15, 2008)

It was theatrical.  And all the better for it.

No running.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 15, 2008)

editor said:


> '12 Angry Men'.


a great film.  One of my favourites.

I only discovered that some of my other favourite films -  _Serpico_, _The Pawnbroker_, _Dog Day Afternoon_, - were also by Sidney Lumet when Barry Norman made a remark whilst reviewing _Prince of the City_, on _Film '81_.

Incidentally, the great Lionel Blair - master of the TV charades game, _Give Us A Clue_ - once tackled Lumet's oeuvre in mime: who could ever forget opposing team captain, Una Stubbs, sitting open-mouthed as he tried to pull off _Twelve Angry Men_ in under two minutes?


----------



## Gromit (Jun 15, 2008)

editor said:


> Yeah, I enjoyed it too.
> 
> It was a quality script - the claustrophobic surroundings and characters reminded me a bit of of '12 Angry Men'


 
12 Angry men Lite. They didn't really tackle in built prejudices etc. It was a simple case of us or them.

Still an simple but fun episode. Must have been a cheap one to make. Only one set for most of it.


----------



## Iguana (Jun 15, 2008)

8ball said:


> Basically they could have all got cooked and I wouldn't have cared.



I couldn't quite put my finger on why I didn't enjoy it as much as I should have, but that is exactly it.


----------



## rioted (Jun 15, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Una Stubbs, sitting open-mouthed as he tried to pull off _Twelve Angry Men_ in under two minutes?


Could she not have helped out as a fluffer?


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 16, 2008)

rioted said:


> Could she not have helped out as a fluffer?



haha


----------



## belboid (Jun 16, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> a great film.  One of my favourites.
> 
> I only discovered that some of my other favourite films -  _Serpico_, _The Pawnbroker_, _Dog Day Afternoon_, - were also by Sidney Lumet when Barry Norman made a remark whilst reviewing _Prince of the City_, on _Film '81_.
> 
> Incidentally, the great Lionel Blair - master of the TV charades game, _Give Us A Clue_ - once tackled Lumet's oeuvre in mime: who could ever forget opposing team captain, Una Stubbs, sitting open-mouthed as he tried to pull off _Twelve Angry Men_ in under two minutes?



blimey, that was quite a long winded way to work in a joke you heard at the weekend ..... 


Superb episode, even if it was totally ripped off from various other old shows (Twilight Zone most notably, tho several others too, even CSI). As others have said - the Doctor couldn't play god and was virtually helpless at the end. And the way the characters kept changing their minds about whether the woman and the Doctor were good or not.  You kinda expected the research assistant lass and emo boy to be the goodies throughout, but no!  Obviously Carol Jackson was gonna be a bitch throughout, but she still got a cracking last line to make up for her lack of humanity.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 16, 2008)




----------



## scifisam (Jun 16, 2008)

CNT36 said:


> Throw him out.



Very good. 

I agree about not really caring about them all being thrown out, I didn't care about them, but I did care about the doctor getting thrown out. It could have happened - and he probably would have survived somehow or other (because we know Tennant hasn't left the series yet), but it still might have affected his amazingly charitable view of humanity. Mind you, if he's comparing us to daleks and so on, we must seem relatively beneficent.


----------



## belboid (Jun 16, 2008)

feyr said:


> did rose appearr on the entertainment console briefly at one point in this episode? i thought i saw her but then wasnt sure?


not only did she appear (as well and truly pointed out already) - she managed to come in _third_ in the credits.  For a one second appearance on a console screen.  I'd be marginally miffed if I was one of the people who actually did something in the episode


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 16, 2008)

Spoiler:  Next Weeks Episode Press Release



Earth's greatest heroes assemble in a time of dire need, in tonight's penultimate episode in this series of Russell T Davies's Bafta Award-winning time-travelling drama. But can the Doctor's secret army defeat the might of the new Dalek Empire?



With battles on the streets and in the skies, the Doctor and Donna must brave the Shadow Proclamation to find out the truth. However, a fearsome old enemy waits in the shadows... !




oooh


----------



## wishface (Jun 16, 2008)

Well if that is what it would appear to be then the appearance thereof would be enough to redeem the entire season.


----------



## Socialist Cynic (Jun 16, 2008)

> Basically they could have all got cooked and I wouldn't have cared.



Actually I was quite impressed by the way it was played, I actively ended up hating the man and wife characters, from a relatively sympathetic start (and I rarely get worked up about fiction in that way). The main point of it was that you _should_ feel like you’re looking at humanity at its least likeable I think.

But yeah I think the main flaw was lack of time basically, there was an attempt to build up understanding of the crew’s personalities early on – hence the TV getting turned off and conversations starting instead – but they simply couldn’t be developed enough to make you invest in what happened to them.


----------



## fogbat (Jun 16, 2008)

I was a bit disappointed by the most recent episode - great buildup, really atmospheric, then a sudden, unconvincing resolution to get everything finished off in time.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 16, 2008)

belboid said:


> blimey, that was quite a long winded way to work in a joke you heard at the weekend .....


It was, however, a very good joke.


----------



## belboid (Jun 16, 2008)

very true sir, very true


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jun 20, 2008)

Spoilertastic!

Proceed with caution


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 20, 2008)

Also goto wikipedia and check the cast lists for the last three episodes. Every fucker ever.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 20, 2008)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Spoilertastic!
> 
> Proceed with caution



You Bastard, I'm never going to be able to hold out until tomorrow without reading that


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 20, 2008)

its mot so much spoilery reading but spoilery pics


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 20, 2008)

Belushi said:


> You Bastard, I'm never going to be able to hold out until tomorrow without reading that



Ha your will is as weak as mine.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 20, 2008)

Tonite they are showing "Silence in the Library"...is that one worth watching?


----------



## belboid (Jun 20, 2008)

CNT36 said:


> Ha your will is as weak as mine.



that makes three of us.  Shall we have a bet on who can hold out longest? (I've already come across one spoiler that was in the other days' Mirror, so I reckon it might be able to hang on, tempting tho it is...)


----------



## belboid (Jun 20, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> Tonite they are showing "Silence in the Library"...is that one worth watching?



unmissable


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 20, 2008)

The Sun printed a picture of what's his face and the actor who was playing him. Has that been mentioned?


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 20, 2008)

belboid said:


> unmissable



ok i'll have to watch it or record it


----------



## Belushi (Jun 20, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> Tonite they are showing "Silence in the Library"...is that one worth watching?



Definately, one of the best this season.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 20, 2008)

Belushi said:


> Definately, one of the best this season.



excellent


----------



## wishface (Jun 20, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> The Sun printed a picture of what's his face and the actor who was playing him. Has that been mentioned?


LINK NOW OR BE DELETED!

_I warn you I have gangster friends, and that's all I'll say_


----------



## FiFi (Jun 20, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> Tonite they are showing "Silence in the Library"...is that one worth watching?




Lucky you. 

It's very scary, and got an old-fashioned cliffhanger ending!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 20, 2008)

wishface said:


> LINK NOW OR BE DELETED!
> 
> _I warn you I have gangster friends, and that's all I'll say_



Er I said printed and I don't have a link to yesterdays newspapers. There might be something on their website. 

He wasn't in any of those spoiler pics though so maybe the BBC were playin' with the papers.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 20, 2008)

belboid said:


> unmissable



That's just not true. I managed to miss it without too many problems.


----------



## rollinder (Jun 20, 2008)

discovered today that it's not possible for me to hear the Scissor Sisters - I Can't Decide without thinking of John Sim lip sycning while pushing Tennenet arround in a wheelchair


----------



## wishface (Jun 20, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Er I said printed and I don't have a link to yesterdays newspapers. There might be something on their website.
> 
> He wasn't in any of those spoiler pics though so maybe the BBC were playin' with the papers.


that's a dangerous game to play! messing with people's expectations!

I once wore a sontaran helmet. you don't mess with shit like that!


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 20, 2008)

FiFi said:


> Lucky you.
> 
> It's very scary, and got an old-fashioned cliffhanger ending!



after all the positive hype it better be good cause me expectation are up now


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 20, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Er I said printed and I don't have a link to yesterdays newspapers. There might be something on their website.
> 
> He wasn't in any of those spoiler pics though so maybe the BBC were playin' with the papers.



It appears to be confirmed in the wiki castlist.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 20, 2008)

wishface said:


> I once wore a sontaran helmet. you don't mess with shit like that!



Sontaran helmet, Feh big deal. 





Excellent!


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 21, 2008)

FiFi said:


> Lucky you.
> 
> It's very scary, and got an old-fashioned cliffhanger ending!



yea that was good...but its a two part episode 

now i have to wait another week 

too bad that ms. evangelista had to kick the bucket, she was totally HOT


----------



## wishface (Jun 21, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Sontaran helmet, Feh big deal.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I wore one of those.

A real one, damn your eyes, at a proper convention, belonging to the proper special fx department.

plus i have gangster dalek friends, pow pow pow.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 21, 2008)

wishface said:


> I wore one of those.
> 
> A real one, damn your eyes, at a proper convention, belonging to the proper special fx department.
> 
> plus i have gangster dalek friends, pow pow pow.


I will see you that and raise you: I watched episode 12 of the new series last night.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 21, 2008)

wishface said:


> I wore one of those.
> 
> A real one, damn your eyes, at a proper convention, belonging to the proper special fx department.
> 
> plus i have gangster dalek friends, pow pow pow.



That is a real one. 
And you wouldn't see me at any damn convention. 

*Runs upstairs*
*Remembers remembrance of the Daleks*

*Runs downstairs and out the back door*


----------



## Vash (Jun 21, 2008)

One word review for this weeks episode.

Shite.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 21, 2008)

An alternative two word review:

OMGWTF AWESOME


----------



## zoooo (Jun 21, 2008)

Fucking FANTASTIC!!!!!


----------



## wishface (Jun 21, 2008)

Vash said:


> One word review for this weeks episode.
> 
> Shite.


Unfortunately you are stuck in an alternate universe of wrong.


----------



## yardbird (Jun 21, 2008)

Vash said:


> One word review for this weeks episode.
> 
> Shite.



Where's the little kid behind the sofa in you ??


----------



## Dead Cat Bounce (Jun 21, 2008)

Fuck, that was good.

*Tries to remember every time that Donna had something on her back and the relevance*


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 21, 2008)

yeah i enjoyed it too , nice to see rose back and ' those ' two words ' 
I actually thought CT acted pretty well throughout.........

cant wait for next week


----------



## moomoo (Jun 21, 2008)

We loved that!  I'll have to do my normal trick of watching it again to work out what it was all about but one of the best this series. 

I welled up a bit when the family were taken away on that truck though. 

Only 2 more to go as well............


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 21, 2008)

hey wishface what did you think ?


----------



## mentalchik (Jun 21, 2008)

I really enjoyed that !






(although i did wonder why Billy Piper sounded like she was talking with a mouthful of marbles)


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 21, 2008)

that would be the botox


----------



## Belushi (Jun 21, 2008)

Good stuff, always love Davies' less than subtle politics, Turn Right and people start getting taken away to labour camps


----------



## janeb (Jun 21, 2008)

Wonderful episode and CT was great 

Wasn't expecting THOSE two words, thought she was going to say Rose Tyler

Can't wait for next week


----------



## Balbi (Jun 21, 2008)

Belushi said:


> Good stuff, always love Davies' less than subtle politics, Turn Right and people start getting taken away to labour camps



 innit.... i thought it were a belter.

BAD WOLF.

In the Donnaverse I thought that Saxon would be about, but it turns out he'd still be Jacobi....! I liked the nod to the Sontaran pwned Unit bloke. Atmos was a bit of a puzzler though....felt a bit forced.

At the end of the day, Earth minus The Doctor = failboats.


----------



## Vash (Jun 21, 2008)

Belushi said:


> Good stuff, always love Davies' less than subtle politics, Turn Right and people start getting taken away to labour camps



It talks about England for the English and sending people to camps then has a black army officer in charge.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 21, 2008)

Vash said:


> It talks about England for the English and sending people to camps then has a black army officer in charge.



ZOMG, you can be black and english....


----------



## wishface (Jun 21, 2008)

ruffneck23 said:


> hey wishface what did you think ?


Awesomeness.


----------



## moomoo (Jun 21, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> (although i did wonder why Billy Piper sounded like she was talking with a mouthful of marbles)



Yeah, she did sound rather odd.


----------



## Scaggs (Jun 21, 2008)

moomoo said:


> Yeah, she did sound rather odd.



I think she's had her front teeth done (looks a bit goofy now)


----------



## Vash (Jun 21, 2008)

She forgot how to do the Rose voice and had to watch old episodes to do it.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 21, 2008)

That was a good episode, this series has really picked up.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2008)

That was fucking fantastic.

Just watched the BBC3 thing too – brilliant. Hehehe, dropping a certain little someone in right at the very end.

Boy oh boy oh boy oh boy oh boy 

I thought Tate's acting was actually pretty cracking – esp. in the circle of mirrors the first time around with the thing on her back.

Just excellent. 

I get to watch it all over again now because I taped it for Mr Paw who was out – he's on his way home now 


Oh, and I noticed Billie's weird teeth too. For a while I thought she had falsies in


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 21, 2008)

'Orrible alien thingies on people's backs, anyone?


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 21, 2008)

My GF hasn't seen it yet so I'm going to keep glancing at her back every now and then to freak her out. until she does see it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2008)

Worst episode ever.  Lazy rubbish.  Huge disappointment.

And no Doctor.


----------



## innit (Jun 21, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Worst episode ever.  Lazy rubbish.  Huge disappointment.
> 
> And no Doctor.



It was good 

But just go on and be grumpy, you'll probably enjoy that.

(Nice tagline by the way)


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2008)

innit said:


> It was good
> 
> But just go on and be grumpy, you'll probably enjoy that.


it wasn't good.  It was utter garbage.

The library episode was good.  This was shit.


----------



## innit (Jun 21, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> it wasn't good.  It was utter garbage.
> 
> The library episode was good.  This was shit.



Some of the science /  plot stuff was garbagey, it always is (including the library / dodgy VR "heaven" for River and her friends / skellingtons in space suits).  However I thought  CT was good - especially the scenes with Rose in the circle, and I found it interesting to see our world without the Doctor's interventions - with the emphasis firmly on Donna's role in saving his life.


----------



## rioted (Jun 21, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> This was shit.


Too right. I was really hoping Tate was going to get hers. Permanently and in every universe past, present and future.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2008)

innit said:


> Some of the science /  plot stuff was garbagey, it always is (including the library / dodgy VR "heaven" for River and her friends / skellingtons in space suits).  However I thought  CT was good - especially the scenes with Rose in the circle, and I found it interesting to see our world without the Doctor's interventions - with the emphasis firmly on Donna's role in saving his life.


It was lazy, it was silly, it had no Doctor, it had the feckin _adipose_ again, and it was dull.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 21, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> It was lazy, it was silly, it had no Doctor, it had the feckin _adipose_ again, and *it was dull*.



LONDON GOT ALL BLOWED UP

Some people are never happy.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 21, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> LONDON GOT ALL BLOWED UP
> 
> Some people are never happy.




Yes, but in a really rubbish way.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jun 21, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> It was lazy, it was silly, it had no Doctor, it had the feckin _adipose_ again, and it was dull.



Did you miss the whole point of the episode *danny*?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 21, 2008)

He obviously did. The doctor was in at the end anyway so he didn't exactly miss the whole of it.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 21, 2008)

Innit. The episode was a MASSIVE set up for the last five minutes, and had loads of death, destruction and general pwning of humanity. Everyone died - from Torchwood to SJS. Piper was very Doctory with her name and stuff, even with the mouthful of marbles. The 'there's something on your back' thing works well, and lots of Bernard Cribbins makes me happy too. BAD WOLF at the end with a genuinely terrified Doctor....I mean, what a setup for the last few episodes. Major collision of all RTD based Who characters ahead.

Plus, no Agyeman. That's always good.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 21, 2008)

Well said Balbi.


----------



## Vash (Jun 21, 2008)

Agyeman was in the trailer.


----------



## innit (Jun 21, 2008)

Vash said:


> Agyeman was in the trailer.



Ah well, you can't have everything.

(With any luck they'll kill her properly before the series ends)


----------



## wishface (Jun 21, 2008)

I'm unsure as to how Bad Wolf is some kind of terrible thing. As I recall, Bad Wolf was the iconography rose used to guide her and the doctor to the future where she then absorbed the Tardis to gain the power to do so (and fuck the Daleks up). One big timeloop.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2008)

Davros.

Oh yes.


----------



## wishface (Jun 21, 2008)

Didn't notice him in the trailer, but Stav better be in it.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 21, 2008)

Vash said:


> She forgot how to do the Rose voice and had to watch old episodes to do it.


She had a cold, actually, according to someone on the production. She sounds a lot better in next week's ep.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 21, 2008)

Yeah i thought Rose sounded odd.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 21, 2008)

wishface said:


> Didn't notice him in the trailer, but Stav better be in it.



You needed to watch DW Confidential afterwards – oh yes.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 22, 2008)

This episode was all about Donna as last week's was all about the Dr.

Good episode, shit alien though.


----------



## ben foggle2 (Jun 22, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> Davros.
> 
> Oh yes.


Yeah!
I think its been a good series so far.as long as the bbc _don't_ kill Davros.i will be happy to see the leader of the Kaled race back.
Was that the first episode without the Doctor as a major player?I was dubious about Catherine Tate but shes been alright.


----------



## Final (Jun 22, 2008)

Just watched Turn Left, great episode.


----------



## Final (Jun 22, 2008)

http://www.badwolf.org.uk/


----------



## ben foggle2 (Jun 22, 2008)

Final said:


> http://www.badwolf.org.uk/


Thats pretty cool,i had only noticed the tardis one.
thinking back i would sayy this has been the most enjoyable series since perry era.


----------



## Flashman (Jun 22, 2008)

Okay, so who worked out all this Bad Wolf shit, like, ages ago and where were you at the time. I didn't ftr.

Good one that. Nice to see Rose again. I think the fact that she sounded different added to it, people's accents often do throughout life. Loadsa people think Donna Noble is brilliant, is she the one that saves the Universe at the end dya reckon? And dies "again"?

All 'apnin' innit.

Oh, and..


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 22, 2008)

ben foggle2 said:


> I was dubious about Catherine Tate but shes been alright.



yea she's ok


----------



## Final (Jun 22, 2008)

edit: deleted


----------



## liampreston (Jun 22, 2008)

Turn Left was excellent. Usual "alternative reality" stuff can be lazy, but I got to the "England for the English" forced labour camp stuff and didn't know whether to laugh or cry and its poigancy. Tate showed that she can go it alone with some damn fine results too. And next week? This little geek is WELL looking forward to it...


----------



## Vash (Jun 22, 2008)

Just an excuse to flog beetle backpacks innit.


----------



## wishface (Jun 22, 2008)

That was like well dark for the kiddies innit.

Proper bo.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 22, 2008)

Vash said:


> Just an excuse to flog beetle backpacks innit.


 
Hah. You're probably right, as well.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 22, 2008)

DexterTCN said:


> This episode was all about Donna as last week's was all about the Dr.
> 
> Good episode, shit alien though.



I disagree, i thought it was a good idea for an alien.


----------



## _angel_ (Jun 22, 2008)

Flashman said:


> Okay, so who worked out all this Bad Wolf shit, like, ages ago and where were you at the time. I didn't ftr.
> 
> Good one that. Nice to see Rose again. I think the fact that she sounded different added to it, people's accents often do throughout life. Loadsa people think Donna Noble is brilliant, is she the one that saves the Universe at the end dya reckon? And dies "again"?
> 
> ...



I don't think Rose's accent has changed but that she's had something done to her teeth to make her not able to pronounce certain words properly.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 22, 2008)

I enjoyed the episode at the time.

Now with a bit of reflection... a creature that feeds by altering the universe?!! The energy required to do such a thing would be immense. For example the Tardis and its glowing hub. Surely they'd be reviled and hunted to extinction?

Tate's acting was of a higher standard than usual but that was no doubt because the direction required it from her. Tennant's was worse than usual, too cutesey wootsie.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 22, 2008)

Marius said:


> I enjoyed the episode at the time.
> 
> Now with a bit of reflection... a creature that feeds by altering the universe?!! *The energy required to do such a thing would be immense*. For example the Tardis and its glowing hub. Surely they'd be reviled and hunted to extinction?



Looks like you're taking it too seriously!


----------



## wishface (Jun 22, 2008)

Better than those silly fluffy backpacks kids (well goths) use these days.

Schoolkit as designed by Bill Lee


----------



## Gromit (Jun 22, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Looks like you're taking it too seriously!


 
Well the universe is at stake afterall!!!!


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 22, 2008)

My daughter was REALLY scared of the time-beetle or whatever it was.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 22, 2008)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Did you miss the whole point of the episode *danny*?


No.  The whole point of the episode was "what if?".  (Oh, and to make people like Tate).


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 22, 2008)

Helen Back said:


> My GF hasn't seen it yet so I'm going to keep glancing at her back every now and then to freak her out. until she does see it.



Yup! I freaked her out good and proper. She kept catching me staring over her shoulder and got really paranoid. When she saw the episode she laughed and I got a mini-thump. :-D


----------



## Final (Jun 22, 2008)

More up to date list of Bad Wolf references:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Story_arcs_in_Doctor_Who#Bad_Wolf


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 22, 2008)

Helen Back said:


> Yup! I freaked her out good and proper. She kept catching me staring over her shoulder and got really paranoid. When she saw the episode she laughed and I got a mini-thump. :-D



LOL


----------



## Scaggs (Jun 22, 2008)

I'd like to see a lot less of Tate (was hoping she'd been killed off in the first library episode) So I thought it was a bit disappointing this week. The plastic beetle was a bit tacky too. Kids loved it though.


----------



## liampreston (Jun 22, 2008)

If this episode was supposed to prove that Tate could act, it worked.


----------



## ovaltina (Jun 22, 2008)

I think she was amazing.


----------



## wishface (Jun 22, 2008)

Is Bad Wolf any relation to Airwolf?


----------



## emanymton (Jun 22, 2008)

I thought the episode was OK but have to disagree on Tate I still find her really annoying.
“What can I do, what can I do?”
How about shutting up and giving us a few minutes peace. 

My enjoyment was also undermined a little by the awful cheapness of the Beatle backpack.

Did anyone else think that the Chinese market in the opening scene was a little reminiscent of Firefly?


----------



## moomoo (Jun 22, 2008)

Did anyone else notice the fleeting glimpse of Mickey as Grandad was opening the car boot  at the hotel (while wearing reindeer antlers)?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 22, 2008)

moomoo said:


> Did anyone else notice the fleeting glimpse of Mickey as Grandad was opening the car boot  at the hotel (while wearing reindeer antlers)?



Who what where what no! Really? Was it really him?

Ooooh.


----------



## moomoo (Jun 22, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> Who what where what no! Really? Was it really him?
> 
> Ooooh.



Well, the teen is watching it now and we've rewound it a few times and it definitely looks like him....


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 22, 2008)

Just looked it up on youtube- it's not him. Probably too busy directing Oldulthood or something.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 22, 2008)

I've just looked on BBC iplayer – no, it's not him. That guy is much older.


----------



## moomoo (Jun 22, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> I've just looked on BBC iplayer – no, it's not him. That guy is much older.



You reckon?  We were quite excited for a moment there.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 22, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> I've just looked on BBC iplayer – no, it's not him. That guy is much older.


 
Time travel....


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 22, 2008)

lulz, perhaps


----------



## Virginia Plain (Jun 22, 2008)

Really enjoyed it. Slightly distracted by Billie Piper's teeth, what's happened to them? I'm still not sold on Catherine Tate but she did well in this one, though Bernard Cribbins is always a winner. 

I'd much prefer it if Tate's swearing nan was the Doctor's assistant.


----------



## kalidarkone (Jun 22, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> I really enjoyed that !
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thank you! that is what I said to masterdarkone- he got all defensive (He loves Rose)- I think she had he teeth done- dunno they looked a bit buck to me?


----------



## rapattaque (Jun 22, 2008)

Superb episode, get in!


----------



## rapattaque (Jun 22, 2008)

moomoo said:


> Well, the teen is watching it now and we've rewound it a few times and it definitely looks like him....



As my boss pointed out on Friday, they all look the same. Maybe that's the case in this instance.


----------



## Final (Jun 22, 2008)

I <3 Rose too.

Doctor + Rose + Me = woo hoooooooooooooooooooo.

*wanders off for a cold shower*


----------



## Melinda (Jun 22, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> As my boss pointed out on Friday, they all look the same. Maybe that's the case in this instance.


Eh? Could you explain that comment please?


----------



## rapattaque (Jun 22, 2008)

My boss is an idiot.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 22, 2008)

kalidarkone said:


> Thank you! that is what I said to masterdarkone- he got all defensive (He loves Rose)- I think she had he teeth done- dunno they looked a bit buck to me?


Yes, she had something done.  We were commenting on this every time she spoke.  My eldest thought she was probably on drugs.


----------



## Ich bin ein Mod (Jun 22, 2008)

*lazy justification alert*

Could it be like, a really obvious way of showing that this wasn't, like, "proper" Rose and was like, totally from another universe?


----------



## moomoo (Jun 22, 2008)

The teenager (who knows everything about everything) said that you can see the track marks of those clear braces on her teeth.


----------



## Iguana (Jun 22, 2008)

Ich bin ein Mod said:


> *lazy justification alert*
> 
> Could it be like, a really obvious way of showing that this wasn't, like, "proper" Rose and was like, totally from another universe?



I think you could be right, there were a few times throughout the episode where she seemed not quite right.  In the scene where Donna is being shown the beetle on her back and is freaking out Rose almost seemed amused.  I think Rose was quite purposefully different, and may be changed.


----------



## ovaltina (Jun 22, 2008)

Maybe it's coz I'm on a comedown, but i got a bit emotional watching that


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 22, 2008)

ovaltina said:


> Maybe it's coz I'm on a comedown, but i got a bit emotional watching that



Dude, I watched it twice, sober as a judge, and cried like a tosser the second time


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 22, 2008)

Iguana said:


> I think you could be right, there were a few times throughout the episode where she seemed not quite right.  In the scene where Donna is being shown the beetle on her back and is freaking out Rose almost seemed amused.  I think Rose was quite purposefully different, and may be changed.


Or maybe it was just all a bit shit.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 22, 2008)

just watched it, and i thought it was brilliant.  an ep for the adults - with post apocalypse britain and labour camps.

fucking bernard cribbins for an oscar in that scene.  he's a legend.  totally amazing.  

Great writing - RTD got where he is today because of his writing skillz - and didn't it show?

the timey-wimey stuff is a bit muddling, but i don't really care.

btw - i bloody _knew_ it was Chan-tho doing the fortune telling.  I half thought it might be a Master-related plot point.

I'm really psyched.  i've been a bit 'meh' about the last two stories which everyone has loved, and i don't like the mythology of rose tyler, so i wasn't that optimistic.  but that was bloody brilliant.


btw - i agree with moomoo's teen - most likely invisible braces.  she hasn't had them done - they look the same.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 22, 2008)

I don't think Billy Piper has aged at all well. Her mouth looks too big for her face to me these days.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 22, 2008)

Iguana said:


> I think you could be right, there were a few times throughout the episode where she seemed not quite right.  In the scene where Donna is being shown the beetle on her back and is freaking out Rose almost seemed amused.  I think Rose was quite purposefully different, and may be changed.



Definately, Rose was all sort of aloof and wierd. She was definately 'different' - The stress of travelling though dimensions and the weight of knowing the future and that...


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 22, 2008)

Marius said:


> I don't think Billy Piper has aged at all well. Her mouth looks too big for her face to me these days.



It always has been.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 22, 2008)

Hardly easy to act normal when you have and have to use godlike power to take someone's life save the universe.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 23, 2008)

i thought rose had lines which would usually have been deleivered by the doctor tbh.

she's had her teeth done and lost a little weigth so her face shape has changed she's also scupted her previously untamed eyebrows all of which have changed the shape of her face. 

equally as she's now preggers IRL so the rumour goes (no idea if it's true) then she's unlikely to be making a huge come back after this episode.

crbbins FTW though...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> I really enjoyed that !
> 
> 
> 
> ...




This was odd. It sounded like she was in the final stages of recovering from gum injections


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> It was lazy, it was silly, it had no Doctor, it had the feckin _adipose_ again, and it was dull.



Fail opinion is fail DLR. It was an episode that played some nice time games, Rose and Tate did good, and the Bad Wolf thing freaked me out.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> It was an episode that played some nice time games, Rose and Tate did good, and the Bad Wolf thing freaked me out.


It was like a clips episode of Friends, Rose was rubbish, Tate was Tate, and the Bad Wolf thing was old hat.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 23, 2008)

I liked the way it was a mini version of Threads with a bit of Children of Men thrown in... I suppose a dead Doctor would never have uncovered The Master...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> I liked the way it was a mini version of Threads with a bit of Children of Men thrown in... I suppose a dead Doctor would never have uncovered The Master...


I didn't like the going back in time and losing a year Master episode either.

I like the period settings, the well-written ones, and stuff that's creepy.


----------



## Hellsbells (Jun 23, 2008)

Did anyone watch Dr Who confidential? Billie was interviewed in that, completely make up free, and admitted that she struggled with getting back into the character of Rose (and presumably her accent), which might explain why she sounded so wierd in the episode. 
She sounded totally normal when she was speaking in her ordinairy, quite posh accent. 
And without makeup, she actually looks loads better, like a normal, very pretty girl. The make up tends to make her large features even larger and slightly creepy.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 23, 2008)

Hellsbells said:


> Did anyone watch Dr Who confidential? Billie was interviewed in that, completely make up free, and admitted that she struggled with getting back into the character of Rose (and presumably her accent), which might explain why she sounded so wierd in the episode.
> She sounded totally normal when she was speaking in her ordinairy, quite posh accent.
> And without makeup, she actually looks loads better, like a normal, very pretty girl. The make up tends to make her large features even larger and slightly creepy.



she looks about 4 months gone...


----------



## d.a.s.h (Jun 23, 2008)

I find Tate's character irritating for some reason. 

Generally enjoyable though, even though the series is sometimes emotionally overwrought and takes itself a little bit too seriously.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 23, 2008)

Im pretty much with DLR here. 

I thought that whilst it had some good darkside stuff - the invisible thing on Donna's back, the devastation of london and the social breakdown that results (reminded me of 'threads' as well) - it really showed up RTD limitations when it comes to writing sci-fi drama.

As ever he comes up with a load of over blown, lazy bollocks full of mumbo jumbo. 

In this case it was a whole episode of 'what if - the doctor had died whilst facing the spider women thing'. We then get a catalouge of stuff from previous stories which only served to highlight the silliness of it all - the Adipose FFS.  And it also brings us back to the queasy/cheesy  'Doctor as Messiah' theme that RTD seems so set on. 

RTD cant set himself limits on the unvierse he creates. He makes rules - you cant travel between unverses - Rose cant come back - and then breaks them. This makes for an utterly inconsistant unvierse which has no internal logic other than than the whim of its creator (the writer)  - and on this evidence Davies needs to seriously lay off the cocaine. 

A decent sci-fi writer - any writer - creates a world, be it a whole planet or two people in a flat - and makes it credible by creating clear boundires and rules so as to make the drama convincing. RTD doesn't - he goes wherver his imagination leads him but seems inapable of doing the really clever part of making it convincing enough to take the audience with him. It reminds  me of the mad stories my 8 year old comes up with - which are great - for an 8 year old. 

I've just been re-reading War of the Worlds - its great sci-fi because Wells depicts a fantastical intervention (a martian invasion) in a totally convicing realistic context - late 19th centuary england. So we have people in a devastated Surry in their sunday best best fleeing in blind panic from a terrifyingly convicning  remorseless enemy who are defeated - not by a 'magic wand' metaphorically  pulled out of someones arse (im thinking Rose melting the daleks with her eyes here) -  but by credible and realist means - (they are killed by earths bacteria as they - logically - dont have any immunity).

An 8 year old writing a fantasy/sci story will be full of random 'magic wand' solutions that are pulled out of thin air. RTD - whilst very good at writing interpersonal stuff and dialouge -  is very much in this camp. 

We are now about to face  some terrible scourge that threatens every single universe (this is  RTD 'going big') - i have absolutely no doubt that this will via some ill-defined mumbo jumbo and be thwarted in similar style with some clever clever gags thrown in. Lazy coke addled bollocks on a big budget. 

So glad Moffat is taking over.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 23, 2008)

ceptt that if you watched the confidential he seems to be well aware of the crosses in time lines and that perhaps the 'universe' rose has been trapped on isn't actually another universe at all but a seperate timeline.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 23, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> ceptt that if you watched the confidential he seems to be well aware of the crosses in time lines and that perhaps the 'universe' rose has been trapped on isn't actually another universe at all but a seperate timeline.



Again I think the phrases 'mumbo jumbo' and 'making it up as he goes along' spring to mind here.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> As ever he comes up with a load of over blown, lazy bollocks full of mumbo jumbo.
> 
> In this case it was a whole episode of 'what if - the doctor had died whilst facing the spider women thing'. We then get a catalouge of stuff from previous stories which only served to highlight the silliness of it all - the Adipose FFS.  And it also brings us back to the queasy/cheesy  'Doctor as Messiah' theme that RTD seems so set on.
> 
> ...


Hooray!

Absolutely.  Don't get me wrong, when Dr Who has been good, it's been fantastic.  And I think RTD was great.  Up until this series.  There have been very few high points this series, and I've a sinking feeling that revisiting Rose isn't going to be one of them.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 23, 2008)

Meh, each to their own. Seems there's always something wrong with it...cant please everyone!


----------



## d.a.s.h (Jun 23, 2008)

There's nothing wrong in aiming the programme at 8-year-olds though: Doctor Who is and always has been a children's science fiction series first and foremost, and to keep little eyes glued to the screen it has to shock and amaze. The best recent episodes IMO are those which understand this most clearly, such as 'Blink'. Making it tolerable viewing for parents and other adults comes second.

But I don't like the mumbo jumbo or messianic bits which Kaka Tim mentions. They go against the traditions of the programme and the core values imparted to young viewers, which are:

1. Science is cool

2. The truth about something can be uncovered by investigation and exploration

3. Brains beats brawn


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

d.a.s.h said:


> There's nothing wrong in aiming the programme at 8-year-olds though:


Nothing at all.  In fact, it very much should remember that is part of their audience.

Thats quite different from _writing like an 8-year-old_, though.


----------



## d.a.s.h (Jun 23, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Nothing at all.  In fact, it very much should remember that is part of their audience.
> 
> Thats quite different from _writing like an 8-year-old_, though.



Yes, there is a sort of breathless quality to the plots: "this happened and then this happened and then an enormous something came along and it all went boom!" The poorer episodes don't show much control in the writing. Maybe KT is right about the coke-addled bit.


----------



## ovaltina (Jun 23, 2008)

d.a.s.h said:


> Yes, there is a sort of breathless quality to the plots: "this happened and then this happened and then an enormous something came along and it all went boom!"



I reckon the writers enjoy letting their imaginations go wild. It's fun. Remember the killer Christmas trees?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 23, 2008)

I wonder what the critics in this thread would do differently? Since they appear to be experts in writing tv shows...


----------



## 8ball (Jun 23, 2008)

Didn't we offer to write one earlier in the thread?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 23, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> Again I think the phrases 'mumbo jumbo' and 'making it up as he goes along' spring to mind here.



or the phrase manic obssives who if the don't get the pricese episode they had built up in their heads they get a touch unbalanced and throw toys out of the pram.

It's a kids tv show.  there's nothing else to say after that it's not designed for the fans or for the adults but for kids.  the fact many adults love it isn't an indicator of mammoth amounts of Q/C otherwiseHarry potter would be considered in the same vein... because the writing in that is applauling... 

try being a little less obssesive geek fan and enjoy it for what it is...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 23, 2008)

Garfield gets it.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 23, 2008)

I'm reminded of Spaced and Tim's relationship with Star Wars. Screaming at a kid, but you don't understand, you weren't there at the start.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 23, 2008)

Marius said:


> I'm reminded of Spaced and Tim's relationship with Star Wars. Screaming at a kid, but you don't understand, you weren't there at the start.



pretty much and for some reason internet connected obsessives seem to think that this is their private domain and others may not have opinions or feelings likes and dislikes about it because it in someway impinges on their reverance and canoniseation of the 'true' way. thankfully RTD has often said along with moffit that they couldnt' give a fuck abotu the fans and fair play to them.  I can't either tbh.  

here's a quick guide on how fans can get to see the episodes they want on air, for free.

become a script writer.

if you are that intune with what's wanted by the audience and of course oyu have the relevant geekcred to bealble to keep a running timeline of all things doctor who write and episode write a scene ffs and then send it to the makers of doctor who if they are impressed and like it enough it'll be stolen or used with permission and feature on the telly box... until then why not cease with the constant dullard moaning as it wasn't as you expected it to be...


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 23, 2008)

Wow, someone(Garfield) actually understands what i've been saying. 

All i see is people talking about the negatives and never saying how to actually improve the show.


----------



## Melinda (Jun 23, 2008)




----------



## Melinda (Jun 23, 2008)




----------



## Melinda (Jun 23, 2008)




----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 23, 2008)

Doctor who is serious business, YEAH!


----------



## Melinda (Jun 23, 2008)

Better believe it, Sunshine!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 23, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> or the phrase manic obssives who if the don't get the pricese episode they had built up in their heads they get a touch unbalanced and throw toys out of the pram.
> 
> It's a kids tv show.  there's nothing else to say after that it's not designed for the fans or for the adults but for kids.  the fact many adults love it isn't an indicator of mammoth amounts of Q/C otherwiseHarry potter would be considered in the same vein... because the writing in that is applauling...
> 
> try being a little less obssesive geek fan and enjoy it for what it is...



Sorry but I'm not a dr who geek - And its nothing to do with it being (primarily) a kids show - (actually I'd say its genuine family entertainment - whcih is slightly different) . 

The best childrens books, films tv progs etc are good for the same reasons as stuff aimed at adults - from Watership Down to Toy Story. 

RTD's writing is lazy - hes like a kid in a sweet shop and he has no self discipline - and that makes him very poor at delivering convincing plots. The best who storys - Blink, the library one, the first cyberman story in season two - are  - whilst being highly imaginiative - taughtly written, have firm boundries and are true to their own internal logic.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 23, 2008)

Ah, yet more focusing on whats wrong rather than what you would do to change it. 

Doctor who is SERIOUS BUSINESS!!


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 23, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> pretty much and for some reason internet connected obsessives seem to think that this is their private domain and others may not have opinions or feelings likes and dislikes about it because it in someway impinges on their reverance and canoniseation of the 'true' way. thankfully RTD has often said along with moffit that they couldnt' give a fuck abotu the fans and fair play to them.  I can't either tbh.
> 
> here's a quick guide on how fans can get to see the episodes they want on air, for free.
> 
> ...




How about Dr who vs the Strawman?

I also Like the way that you charcterise anyone who disagrees with you as an obsessive dullard who wants to shout down opposing points of view. 

mirror for you to take a good look in this way >>>>>>


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I wonder what the critics in this thread would do differently?


Make this series more like the first, second, and even the best parts of the third series.  (I'm talking post relaunch here).  This series has been consistently poor.  In my opinion.  Which is what this thread is about; opinions.

I've been specific, too:  less explosions and running, more creepy.  I personally like the period episodes, so more of them would be good.  But over all, less of the magic bullet plotting, and more of the intelligent stuff the team is clearly capable of.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 23, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Ah, yet more focusing on whats wrong rather than what you would do to change it.
> 
> Doctor who is SERIOUS BUSINESS!!



Well when I wrote - "The best who storys - Blink, the library one, the first cyberman story in season two - are - whilst being highly imaginiative - taughtly written, have firm boundries and are true to their own internal logic."  it would seem to impy that that is what the crap Who stories lack.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2008)

Doctor Who with less running? are you quite mad sir?

The only real shit episode so far has been the adipose.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 23, 2008)

Well as i say, each to their own. I think this series has picked up. I'm not a fan of RTD, but i have begun to enjoy it, and this is someone who was incredibly bored with it 5 episodes or so ago.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 23, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I wonder what the critics in this thread would do differently? Since they appear to be experts in writing tv shows...


 
Sack David Tennant and hire someone more like Eckleston.

Sack Tate and hire someone more like Billie Piper.

Make them as scary as possible without losing the abilty to broadcast before the watershed.

Have more of the serious, totured past Doctor and less of the my what jolly japes this all is, look how brilliant I am.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 23, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> Well thats a bollocks argument. What I am supposed to do - provide an alternative script?



Well you're such an expert it seems in what shouldn't be done. Calm down anyway. 

I hate dealing with obsessive fans.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Doctor Who with less running?


Yes please.

Running has its place, but it dominated even _character development_ a few weeks back!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

Marius said:


> Sack David Tennant and hire someone more like Eckleston.


No!  I can't agree with that; Tennant is great.  (Ecclescake was too, but I prefer Tennant, and certainly don't see him as a minus).

As for the Rose business, I feel her time has probably passed.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jun 23, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Well you're such an expert it seems in what shouldn't be done. Calm down anyway.
> 
> I hate dealing with obsessive fans.




Why - Do you have many fans?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 23, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> How about Dr who vs the Strawman?
> 
> I also Like the way that you charcterise anyone who disagrees with you as an obsessive dullard who wants to shout down opposing points of view.
> 
> mirror for you to take a good look in this way >>>>>>



nice wriggle and misrepresentation of what was said either you identify with being a dotor who obsessive in which case my descrpiton is apt or you don't in which case it isn't.

oddly you seem to have shortened this to i think you're an obsessive who acts in a different manner.  

sorry if that is the case and you are objecting to the catigoriseation of your obessetion by others. 

it still doesn't depricate my point.


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2008)

Most bizarre, DLR normally has excellent taste and judgement as far as the Doc is concerened, but he is sooooooooooooooooooo wrong on this one. Another cracking episode, they're making sure that, even tho this series took a while to get going, its going to finish brilliantly.  Christ - even the re-appearance of the bleedin' Adipose was amusingly done!

Rose was disappointing, for all the reasons stated by others earlier, and maybe it took a little too long to get to the actual point, but fuck it, there was some real class in that. Donna dying was quite touching.

And 'It's A Wonderful Life' is a cracking film that most pre-teens won't have seen, so the fact that it was seriously borrowed from (along with a dozen other stories of course) is irrelevant.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

belboid said:


> Most bizarre, DLR normally has excellent taste and judgement as far as the Doc is concerened, but he is sooooooooooooooooooo wrong on this one.


There you go.  We all have off days.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 23, 2008)

I don't really care what happens as long as we can get away from the bloody Deus Ex Machina. 

And can we have some actual magic - not science.

I still think it was a good episode, especially the nod to Threads (Leeds) with a bit of Children of Men/ V for Vendetta. I take they don't show Threads to School kids anymore so I imagine the Dr WHo version is going to have to do for a generation of Nightmares). I actually liked the fact the Dr wasn't in it. I hope Billy's terrible accent was due to Dimensional travel...


----------



## Strawman (Jun 23, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> How about Dr who vs the Strawman? >>>>>>



What did I do ??!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2008)

Fitted an Atmos device to my car the otherday


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> And can we have some actual magic - not science.


That's the opposite of what I think.  Just shows you, eh?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> I don't really care what happens as long as we can get away from the bloody Deus Ex Machina.
> 
> * And can we have some actual magic - not science.
> *
> I still think it was a good episode, especially the nod to Threads (Leeds) with a bit of Children of Men/ V for Vendetta. I take they don't show Threads to School kids anymore so I imagine the Dr WHo version is going to have to do for a generation of Nightmares). I actually liked the fact the Dr wasn't in it. I hope Billy's terrible accent was due to Dimensional travel...



If I wanted magic I'd watch a fantasy show.

You might enjoy a 7th Doctor adventure called Battlfield. It has what looks like magic in it


----------



## Final (Jun 23, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> If I wanted magic I'd watch a fantasy show.



Bring back buffy! 
and angel


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Fitted an Atmos device to my car the otherday



  OMG.  You want to get that removed ASAP.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 23, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> And can we have some actual magic - not science.



Why? Dr Who has never been a show about 'magic' before.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 23, 2008)

Becuase there is ALWAYS a scientific explanation - usually involving using a sonic screwdriver on a hitherto unmentioned master control device. He would be utterly defeated by some Wizard type stuff! Or at least be forced to be more inventive...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> Becuase there is ALWAYS a scientific explanation - usually involving using a sonic screwdriver on a hitherto unmentioned master control device. He would be utterly defeated by some Wizard type stuff! Or at least be forced to be more inventive...




yes, it being a sci fi show and all....

See Battlefield where he totaly pwns Morgan Le Fey.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> Becuase there is ALWAYS a scientific explanation


I'm not seeing that; in fact I'm seeing a lot of fairly magical things dressed up as science.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm not seeing that; in fact I'm seeing a lot of fairly magical things dressed up as science.



well it IS science *fiction*


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> well it IS science *fiction*


Yes, I don't need it to be real science.  But it's been getting a bit silly.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 23, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> yes, it being a sci fi show and all....
> 
> See Battlefield where he totaly pwns Morgan Le Fey.



I remeber it well.. and it has Ace in it... I like the Wickerman style one with Pertwee more


----------



## Final (Jun 23, 2008)

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

Final said:


> "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic." - Arthur C. Clarke



"Although fortune tellers who can rewrite history, with or without giant plastic cockroaches, are perhaps as plot device too far".  - RW Emerson.


----------



## Final (Jun 23, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> "Although fortune tellers who can rewrite history, with or without giant plastic cockroaches, are perhaps as plot device too far".  - RW Emerson.



The beetle works on a similar principle to the statues in blink (which sent their victims into the past to feed on their lost futures).


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

Final said:


> The beetle works on a similar principle to the statues in blink (which sent their victims into the past to feed on their lost futures).



The difference being that Blink was well written and didn't require fortune tellers.


----------



## Final (Jun 23, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> The difference being that Blink was well written and didn't require fortune tellers.



haha, ok, I'm not getting into an argument about the merits of various fucking Dr Who plot lines.  Sorry you didn't like it.

Lets pray for less fortune tellers in the future eh?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

Fewer fortune tellers, less running, fewer explosions, and more Bernard Cribbins.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2008)

Cribbens bits are almost invariably the heavy handed emotive bits.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Cribbens bits are almost invariably the heavy handed emotive bits.


But handled brilliantly by a fine British institution.

Wasn't he in the old series?  Or was it the film?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2008)

iirc he was in the peter cushing dalek films. Not 100% sure of that.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> But handled brilliantly by a fine British institution.




thats true. He had me teary eyed at the 'It's happening again' bit


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

He was, in my opinion, the best thing aout the episode.


----------



## Vash (Jun 23, 2008)

Robert Carlyle is the bookies favourite to take over as Dr but I don't see him sticking more than one season.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 23, 2008)

I think it would of been better if the removal of Donna from the doctors hadn't been by yet another creature that feed of changes in the timeline. Timewyrm, the weeping angels etc. At least it didn't feed on some life force bollox I suppose. The beetle was a bit crap and if it had been an attempt to get rid of the doctor by the enemies in the next few stories it would have been better IMO. Other than that it was a wicked episode and probably the best of this series and one of the best since the revival. Tate has her annoying moments and me and my brother both spotted her slip into the nanna character at one point but apart from that shes a good companion better than the overrated but not terrible Billie Piper. Also the character is better than that of Rose who always came across as up herself.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 23, 2008)

Vash said:


> Robert Carlyle is the bookies favourite to take over as Dr but I don't see him sticking more than one season.



If he does it then I hope he keeps his accent and smokes pot...like Hamish McBeth, Timelord.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 23, 2008)

Vash said:


> Robert Carlyle is the bookies favourite to take over as Dr but I don't see him sticking more than one season.



Carlyle would be ace, I'd like to see him glass a dalek


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 23, 2008)

Alright then... why, in this alternate universe, had the world not been conquered by a. the Pyroviles or b. the Daleks? OMG INCONSISTENCY


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 23, 2008)

Vash said:


> Robert Carlyle is the bookies favourite to take over as Dr but I don't see him sticking more than one season.


i would be truly amazed.  Carlysle hasn't given up on hollywood yet, surely.
I'd like an older doctor.  Derek Jacobi was simply outstanding as The Master - someone of his acting chops would be truly ace.


CNT36 said:


> I think it would of been better if the removal of Donna from the doctors hadn't been by yet another creature that feed of changes in the timeline. Timewyrm, the weeping angels etc. At least it didn't feed on some life force bollox I suppose. The beetle was a bit crap and if it had been an attempt to get rid of the doctor by the enemies in the next few stories it would have been better IMO.



i was talking to the kids at school about the beetle and they (12 year olds) reckoned it was dead scary.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 23, 2008)

Love him as the next Doctor.


----------



## Santino (Jun 23, 2008)

I'd like to see an older Doctor too:


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 23, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Love him as the next Doctor.



ooh - gosh, yes, totally.  doing the whole understated 'Mac' thing.


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2008)

Alex B said:


> I'd like to see an older Doctor too:



close, but






better


----------



## Balbi (Jun 23, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> ooh - gosh, yes, totally.  doing the whole understated 'Mac' thing.



Oh yes


----------



## Balbi (Jun 23, 2008)

belboid said:


> close, but
> 
> 
> 
> ...



close, but






better still.....

acting chops a-plenty here


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2008)

mmm, who the hell is he?


----------



## Balbi (Jun 23, 2008)

Chiwetel Ejiofor.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiwetel_Ejiofor


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 23, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Love him as the next Doctor.



Fuck no! Annoying.


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Chiwetel Ejiofor.....
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiwetel_Ejiofor



aah, he looks different to how he did in Kinky Boots


----------



## Balbi (Jun 23, 2008)

And Serenity, and Inside Man..............

He's class, I spent ages watching him opposite Denzel Washington in inside man going 'fuck, is that him - is that....yeah....maybe, no....actually....yeah...'.....

And of course, true sci-fi chops as the operative in Serenity.






He's FTW.


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2008)

oh blimey, if you'd have used that piccie I'd have known who he was!  Could be an interesting choice


----------



## Balbi (Jun 23, 2008)

*trundles off to watch Serenity and go 'phwoooar'....*


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 23, 2008)

Vash said:


> Robert Carlyle is the bookies favourite to take over as Dr but I don't see him sticking more than one season.


He'd be great.

Chiwetel Ejiofor would be interesting, too, but he's not in the running, is he?


----------



## Balbi (Jun 23, 2008)

No, damn it.

He's got a film career now  D)


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2008)

I just watched it and thought it was excellent.,

The fact that so many adults watch it every week and then bother to argue about the content speaks volumes of the quality of the writing. 

Trying to create a show that appeals to such a huge age range must be one hell of a challenge and it's one that Dr Who usually pulls off, and with some style. There's nothing else like it, really.

Oh, and Cribbins... respect!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 23, 2008)

Like the Stringer Bell idea. If he can do Boddymore, he can do Gallifrey.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 23, 2008)

Balbi said:


> *trundles off to watch Serenity and go 'phwoooar'....*


 


belboid said:


> oh blimey, if you'd have used that piccie I'd have known who he was! Could be an interesting choice


 


Balbi said:


> And Serenity, and Inside Man..............
> 
> He's class, I spent ages watching him opposite Denzel Washington in inside man going 'fuck, is that him - is that....yeah....maybe, no....actually....yeah...'.....
> 
> ...


 


belboid said:


> mmm, who the hell is he?


 


Balbi said:


> Oh yes


 


belboid said:


> close, but
> 
> 
> 
> better


 


Balbi said:


> Love him as the next Doctor.


 


spanglechick said:


> ooh - gosh, yes, totally. doing the whole understated 'Mac' thing.


 
You lot are just picking people based on who you'd like to shag ain't you?

A bit like me saying yeah Kelly Brook should be the next Miss Marple, she's well fit!


----------



## Balbi (Jun 23, 2008)

Ah, but in my defence I am picking someone who can act


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 23, 2008)

Marius said:


> You lot are just picking people based on who you'd like to shag ain't you?
> 
> A bit like me saying yeah Kelly Brook should be the next Miss Marple, she's well fit!



umm - well... moving swiftly on.

there is an element of that, but then most leading actors tend to be handsome.  I also rated an actor of the vinatge of Jacobi - so it isn't my only concern.  Indeed, if i thought for a nanosecond that steve buscemi would be cast (despite him being way, way too famous and let us not forget - an american), i'd wet myself with joy.  It isn't all about the horn.

But I do think with rhind-tutt and Ejiofor (tho there's little chance of the latter) that they can offer a characterisation which is new.  Eccleston was surly and depressed, Tennant is a little narcissitic/borderline sociopathic, i think a *quietly cool* doctor would be great.

I think there's an liklihood now of keeping Who young.  Like shorter stories it's a way to keep younger viewers in the 21st century.


----------



## Dovydaitis (Jun 23, 2008)

Marius said:


> You lot are just picking people based on who you'd like to shag ain't you?
> 
> A bit like me saying yeah Kelly Brook should be the next Miss Marple, she's well fit!



Kelly Brook????? not even a sniff within the parameter of fit


----------



## Gromit (Jun 23, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Ah, but in my defence I am picking someone who can act


 
No she is a brilliant actress, miles better than David Tennant. I don't understand how you can't see it.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 23, 2008)

Marius said:


> No she is a brilliant actress, miles better than David Tennant. I don't understand how you can't see it.



She was class on The Big Breakfast when I were a nipper.


----------



## Santino (Jun 23, 2008)

Doctor





Alex B said:


>


Master


belboid said:


>


----------



## belboid (Jun 23, 2008)

Marius said:


> You lot are just picking people based on who you'd like to shag ain't you?
> 
> A bit like me saying yeah Kelly Brook should be the next Miss Marple, she's well fit!



No, Elba is a brilliant actor who could really bring a whole new dmiension to the character


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 23, 2008)

I just watched it and thought it was excellent.


----------



## janeb (Jun 23, 2008)

Alex B said:


> Doctor
> Master



Excellent idea, but if not (and I doubt it) I'd love to see






as the next Dr


----------



## janeb (Jun 23, 2008)

This time, with pictures


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 24, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Alright then... why, in this alternate universe, had the world not been conquered by a. the Pyroviles or b. the Daleks? OMG INCONSISTENCY



I wondered that also and condlude that the doctors future actions will lead to the destrucion of the pyroviles home world and that the daleks were stopped by dalek sec somehow. Why am I writing this at 230 AM? Also how about the aliens in the next series who try and interfere with earth history?


----------



## Flashman (Jun 24, 2008)

"Ayo shut that Tardis door yo"


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 24, 2008)

I've got it down to a shortlist of...

Paddy Considine
Idris Elba
Rhys Ifans

And I don't want to shag any of them.


----------



## belboid (Jun 24, 2008)

what about Dylan Moran?


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 24, 2008)

belboid said:


> what about Dylan Moran?


He'd be great, too, but I suspect he probably has no interest in the series. It wasn't really big in Ireland. In much the same way that everyone said Richard E Grant would be great as the Doctor; but being from South Africa he had no idea what the series was. And when he did play the Doctor... he was shite.


----------



## belboid (Jun 24, 2008)

'everyone' said that?  Everyone I knew thought he'd be shit, tbh.


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 24, 2008)

belboid said:


> 'everyone' said that?  Everyone I knew thought he'd be shit, tbh.


Yeah, he was always highly placed in those "who should play Doctor Who" polls in the 1990s. Back in the days before Christopher Eccleston, when the consensus was that the Doctor should be a floppy-haired tit in a frock coat.


----------



## Pigeon (Jun 24, 2008)

Marius said:


> Now with a bit of reflection... a creature that feeds by altering the universe?!! The energy required to do such a thing would be immense. For example the Tardis and its glowing hub. Surely they'd be reviled and hunted to extinction?



So your chief gripe concerning *this* episode of a TV programme -one concerning the adventures of a 900 year old two-hearted alien who travels through time and space in a 1950's police box which is several times larger on the inside than on the outside- is that it was a bit far fetched?


----------



## Final (Jun 24, 2008)

Pigeon said:


> So your chief gripe concerning *this* episode of a TV programme -one concerning the adventures of a 900 year old two-hearted alien who travels through time and space in a 1950's police box which is several times larger on the inside than on the outside- is that it was a bit far fetched?



PMSL 

Nicely summed up.

I salute you.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 24, 2008)

Pigeon said:


> So your chief gripe concerning *this* episode of a TV programme -one concerning the adventures of a 900 year old two-hearted alien who travels through time and space in a 1950's police box which is several times larger on the inside than on the outside- is that it was a bit far fetched?


No one minds far fetched but the problem was it was getting as far fetched as Eastenders or Hollyoaks.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 24, 2008)

I'm sorry... Richard E Grant played the Doctor?  When was this?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 24, 2008)

Oh, in an animated webcast.  Sorry, that doesn't count.  Any more than me going to a fancy dress party as the Doctor in 1974 counts.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 24, 2008)

I have a  long scarf does that count?


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 24, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, in an animated webcast.  Sorry, that doesn't count.  Any more than me going to a fancy dress party as the Doctor in 1974 counts.


Well, to be fair, for a brief moment it looked like they were going to continue the series with cartoons of Richard E Grant as the ninth Doctor. And then Russell T Davies came along and saved us.

Grant was also in that Comic Relief skit, too. Which wasn't very funny. And was written by Steven Moffat, which is a bit worrying.


----------



## Santino (Jun 24, 2008)

I can't really see Dylan Moran in the role. I can't see him having the conviction that I think the Doctor really needs. He needs to be able to be completely serious, even when he knows it's a load of old nonsense and a bloke in a rubbery suit.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 24, 2008)

Charlotte Gainsbourg


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 24, 2008)

I think we are all overlooking a fine british actor who would be an unusual doctor.

If anyone has been sad enough to watch Neverwhere you'll know that he played the trixster-fixer chaotic neutral role of De Carrabas. So imagine him as that, not johnson from peep show.

everyone else will have to take my word for it-_hed be fuckin awesome_


----------



## Belushi (Jun 24, 2008)

Brilliant idea DC - is Big Suze gonna be his assistant?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 24, 2008)

yes, and mark- bring back the good old days of two assistants or more


----------



## strung out (Jun 24, 2008)

it was all about Adric, Nyssa, Tegan, Turlough and Chameleon (for all the 2 episodes he was in) there must have been some shagging going in that tardis


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 24, 2008)

strung_out said:


> it was all about *Adric*, Nyssa, Tegan, Turlough and Chameleon (for all the 2 episodes he was in) there must have been some shagging going in that tardis




mega fail.


----------



## strung out (Jun 24, 2008)

indeed


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 24, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> Grant was also in that Comic Relief skit, too. Which wasn't very funny. And was written by Steven Moffat, which is a bit worrying.


I couldn't watch that all the way through, it was buttock-clenchingly embarrassing.  That's why I never watch Comic Relief!


----------



## Pigeon (Jun 24, 2008)

CNT36 said:


> No one minds far fetched but the problem was it was getting as far fetched as Eastenders or Hollyoaks.



Heh! A series about a 900 year old time traveller who regenerates is "getting as" far fetched as EastEnders.

E2A, I dunno what you haters want: Dr Who is consistently witty, intelligent and entertaining: it's enjoyable appointment viewing for me, my missis, our 3 year old and our 10 year old. Unlike pretty much any other Saturday evening prime-time TV show I could name.

So fucken what if  there aren't _really[/] giant space beetles that feed off the ability to change individuals' past behaviour. Channel 4 news is on at much the same time if you're after current affairs._


----------



## Final (Jun 24, 2008)

Pigeon said:


> Heh! A series about a 900 year old time traveller who regenerates is "getting as" far fetched as EastEnders.
> 
> E2A, I dunno what you haters want: Dr Who is consistently witty, intelligent and entertaining: it's enjoyable appointment viewing for me, my missis, our 3 year old and our 10 year old. Unlike pretty much any other Saturday evening prime-time TV show I could name.
> 
> So fucken what if  there aren't _really[/] giant space beetles that feed off the ability to change individuals' past behaviour. Channel 4 news is on at much the same time if you're after current affairs._


_

*sigh*

You had the argument all wrapped up in your previous post,  no need to clamber down off the pedestal and risk spoiling it all _


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 24, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> I've got it down to a shortlist of...
> 
> Paddy Considine
> Idris Elba
> ...





elevendayempire said:


> *He'd be great, too, but I suspect he probably has no interest in the series*.


i don't think anyone on your list would either. inconceivable that considine would do it.


DotCommunist said:


> I think we are all overlooking a fine british actor who would be an unusual doctor.


oh, yes - maybe.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 24, 2008)

Pigeon said:


> Heh! A series about a 900 year old time traveller who regenerates is "getting as" far fetched as EastEnders.
> 
> E2A, I dunno what you haters want: Dr Who is consistently witty, intelligent and entertaining: it's enjoyable appointment viewing for me, my missis, our 3 year old and our 10 year old. Unlike pretty much any other Saturday evening prime-time TV show I could name.
> 
> So fucken what if  there aren't _really[/] giant space beetles that feed off the ability to change individuals' past behaviour. Channel 4 news is on at much the same time if you're after current affairs._


_



Its kind of sad to see the haters making a fool of themselves over a fucking tv show._


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 24, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Its kind of sad to see the haters making a fool of themselves over a fucking tv show.


Just out of interest, who is a "hater" on this thread?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 24, 2008)

Just seen "Turn Left" - that was bloody great, can't wait for the next one, looks like it's got _everyone_ in it


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 24, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> i don't think anyone on your list would either. inconceivable that considine would do it.


Yup. He's said he hates sci-fi. Ifans is probably too big a name in his own right to take on the role now. Actually, the most likely candidate of the three is Elba; he's worked on sci-fi before on Ultraviolet - and on that series, he worked with Joe Ahearne, who directed much of Doctor Who series one.


----------



## jannerboyuk (Jun 25, 2008)

Balbi said:


> close, but
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agree 100% - would be a great choice.


----------



## Final (Jun 25, 2008)

BBC might need to sack Jonathan Ross to pay the wages (no big loss), but for a non-uk doctor I'd be happy with Nathan  Fillion.


----------



## Melinda (Jun 25, 2008)

Final said:


> BBC might need to sack Jonathan Ross to pay the wages (no big loss), but for a non-uk doctor I'd be happy with Nathan  Fillion.







*shudders*


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 25, 2008)

For once Melinda, you are correct. Captain Mal =/= The Doctor.


----------



## Final (Jun 25, 2008)

2/1: Robert Carlyle
4/1: Jason Statham
6/1: James Nesbitt
7/1: John Simm
10/1: Julian Walsh
12/1: Daniel Radcliffe
14/1: Nigel Harman
16/1: Bill Nighy
25/1: Catherine Tate
33/1: Billie Piper


http://denofgeek.com/television/71927/bookies_reveal_odds_on_who_will_be_next_doctor_who.html


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2008)

Oh, Suffering Gallifrey!  Please not Nesbitt!


----------



## Belushi (Jun 25, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, Suffering Gallifrey!  Please not Nesbitt!



Or Jason fucking Statham!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2008)

The horror of Jasmes frigging Nesbitt


whats that wanky itv show where he plays this hard as nails undercover copper, fucking shyte it was. Made Ultimate Farce look good by comparison


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2008)

Belushi said:


> Or Jason fucking Statham!


I don't know who that is.

(Worrying fact about Nesbitt: he was lead role in Jekyll, written by Moffatt...)


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2008)

Just Googled the Statham chap. Didn't recognise him at all.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2008)

He's been in some shit films, and a couple of OK ones


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> He's been in some shit films, and a couple of OK ones


I looked at Wikipedia.  They're not films I've seen, which is why I don't know him.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 25, 2008)

Harry Potter as the Doc


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 25, 2008)

When is Tennant leaving then?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> When is Tennant leaving then?



He's doing 4 special episodes next year (there is no real series next year) then he's gone, I think. Same timeline for Russell T too.


----------



## Melinda (Jun 25, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> For once Melinda, you are correct. Captain Mal =/= The Doctor.


  thank you!

By the way- love that photo of your tribute to Tom Baker- jauntily angled trilby, boa and a flourish of the hand! Dr Who magic right there!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 25, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> He's doing 4 special episodes next year (there is no real series next year) then he's gone, I think. Same timeline for Russell T too.



Ah.  So, assuming they're not just gonna fudge it with a fancy plotline, how many regenerations has he got left?


----------



## Final (Jun 25, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Ah.  So, assuming they're not just gonna fudge it with a fancy plotline, how many regenerations has he got left?



3 more after this one.

I don't care if they fudge that though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_(Doctor_Who)#Regenerations


----------



## belboid (Jun 25, 2008)

Final said:


> 2/1: Robert Carlyle
> 4/1: Jason Statham
> 6/1: James Nesbitt
> 7/1: John Simm
> ...


almost all (apart from Bobby C) totally stupid and implausible. Nesbitt?  uggh, Radcliffe?  pleeeeease.   Bill Night would be okay tho


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2008)

Of those Bobby Carlyle would be my favourite.  And Bill Nighy might be fun.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 25, 2008)

Shame Douglas Adams died cos he'd have written some brilliant episodes.


----------



## belboid (Jun 25, 2008)

he did do! (including the one with John Cleese and six copiers of the Mona Lisa - the one hanging on the Louvre now has 'this is a fake' written on the back in magic marker!)


----------



## 8ball (Jun 25, 2008)

Aye, I meant for the recent series, though.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 25, 2008)

Preview clip worth a watch if you don't mind some spoilers.

http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2008/06/stolen-earth-preview-clip.html


----------



## Final (Jun 25, 2008)

Beetle haters, does this soften the blow any?



> The first mention of Donna's back-beetle was in "The Fires of Pompeii" - episode 2. The town soothsayer (Lucius Dextrus) tells The Doctor "She is returning" then tells Donna "There's something on your back".



It was one of the comments here:

http://denofgeek.com/television/72851/doctor_who_the_clues_leading_up_to_the_ending.html


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 25, 2008)

Final said:


> 2/1: Robert Carlyle
> *4/1: Jason Statham*
> *6/1: James Nesbitt*
> 7/1: John Simm
> ...



In bold are the actors whose casting as the next Doctor would cause me to go on a killing spree through broadcasting house. John Simm would be fine but he's already been the Master ...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jun 25, 2008)

CNT36 said:


> Preview clip worth a watch if you don't mind some spoilers.
> 
> http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2008/06/stolen-earth-preview-clip.html



That clip is wikkid


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2008)

made I shit me pants


----------



## Gromit (Jun 25, 2008)

Final said:


> 12/1: Daniel Radcliffe
> 25/1: Catherine Tate
> 33/1: Billie Piper


 
Someone is having a joke with us.

Although saying that a teenage Doc would fit in with the reverse regeneration story and Daniel would be popular with the kiddies.

Judging by the girlie following on here though they'd be better off ratings wise with some timelord beefcake. Daniel is more timelord fairy cake.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 25, 2008)

Melinda said:


> thank you!
> 
> By the way- love that photo of your tribute to Tom Baker- jauntily angled trilby, boa and a flourish of the hand! Dr Who magic right there!



I'd gone a bit Quentin Crisp by the end of the evening. 

How about Andrew Lincoln? Too dozy looking?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2008)

Final said:


> Beetle haters, does this soften the blow any?


Not really; I didn't like that episode either.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 25, 2008)

ruffneck23 said:


> That clip is wikkid



Theres a clip around as wellof the finale that was shown on Blue Peter. If they are anything to go by this is going to be a wicked 2 parter. I just hope the conclusion isn't another cop out. Thats been my one problem with the finales so far one hell of a build up then a real meh moment at the end.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 25, 2008)

2/1: Robert Carlyle - possible
4/1: Jason Statham - hopefully he's too hollywood ambitious
6/1: James Nesbitt - ugh.  i suspect he fancies himself above it, but also possible.
7/1: John Simm - not a chance
10/1: Julian Walsh - had to google him.  why?
12/1: Daniel Radcliffe - ugh.  hasn't even begun to explore a post-potter hollywood career.  he'd be insane to do it.
14/1: Nigel Harman - possible, but i hope not.  very bland.
16/1: Bill Nighy - more chance of them casting me.  he's writing his own cheques in movieland.
25/1: Catherine Tate - doesn't work - the riversong bit has set very specific perameters.
33/1: Billie Piper - lord, i hope not.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 25, 2008)

CNT36 said:


> Preview clip worth a watch if you don't mind some spoilers.
> 
> http://blogtorwho.blogspot.com/2008/06/stolen-earth-preview-clip.html



Fuuuuuuuuuuck


----------



## Balbi (Jun 25, 2008)

Carlyle's nearly 50, which might not fit the Doctor's regeneration pattern of increasing youth (with McCoy as the exception....)

I couldn't see any of them in the role, but it's Moffat's choice now.

Bets on it being one of his former colleagues....







Would be good.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2008)

See, I think you need someone who hasn't really played any strong character roles before, so we're starting with an (almost) clean slate. No one really knew much about Tennant, he wasn't inscribed in people's minds as a particular type of actor when he started as the Doctor. Eccleston, well, he had an edge, but hadn't been in the public eye much and so was a fresh face people could mould to the part. 

Nesbit would be a fucking disaster in that sense (and it's also why Tate hasn't worked well). I also don't like the idea of Carlyle, for the same reason. He's either Hamish Macbeth or Begby. 

We need newish blood.


----------



## Iguana (Jun 25, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> We need newish blood.



Let's just hope that if the BBC decide this they don't decide to cash in on it with a "How Do You Solve A Problem Like The Doctor" type series.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2008)

Iguana said:


> Let's just hope that if the BBC decide this they don't decide to cash in on it with a "How Do You Solve A Problem Like The Doctor" type series.



Heh, quite.

Tennant was new enough, Eccleston wasn't new, but he wasn't in people's minds much and could become the Doctor well enough.

Freya Agyemon was too new, and didn't work. Tate was too well known and doesn't work.

They should employ me, they really should. I'd find the right Doctor.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 25, 2008)

Richard O'Brien


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Richard O'Brien



 But not fucking Ed Tudor Pole


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 25, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Bets on it being one of his former colleagues....
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No 

Richard Coyle, however, would be 

E2a: someone's suggested Dominic West already right? He is English really.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 25, 2008)

Iguana said:


> Let's just hope that if the BBC decide this they don't decide to cash in on it with a "How Do You Solve A Problem Like The Doctor" type series.



In which case we burn Broadcasting House to the ground. No messing.


----------



## strung out (Jun 25, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Carlyle's nearly 50, which might not fit the Doctor's regeneration pattern of increasing youth (with McCoy as the exception....)



and john pertwee... and colin baker... and christopher ecclestone. but apart from those four, yes!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2008)

Balbi said:


> it's Moffat's choice now.


Who wrote Jekyll, starring Nesbitt.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Who wrote Jekyll, starring Nesbitt.



Balls.


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 25, 2008)

If it happens blame Iguana the BBC could not manage even that basic level of original thinking. Its a terrible idea unless they choose me of course.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 25, 2008)

The working title for the Timelord talent show is called:

Whose Who?

Remember that you heard it here first.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> Balls.


What is?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> What is?



The possibility that Moffat might choose Nesbit. 

Not balls as in 'that's bollocks, I don't believe you' but as in 'bugger, I don't want that to happen'.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 25, 2008)

Marius said:


> The working title for the Timelord talent show is called:
> 
> Whose Who?
> 
> Remember that you heard it here first.



That would be funny except theres probably a cunt pitching it as we speak


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2008)

Marius said:


> The working title for the Timelord talent show is called:
> 
> Whose Who?
> 
> Remember that you heard it here first.



Oh, that's good


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 25, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> The possibility that Moffat might choose Nesbit.
> 
> Not balls as in 'that's bollocks, I don't believe you' but as in 'bugger, I don't want that to happen'.


  Oh, right!

I'm only stirring; I don't think he'd pick him.  But they _did_ work together.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jun 25, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> Eccleston, well, he had an edge, but hadn't been in the public eye much and so was a fresh face people could mould to the part.



Eccleston worked because he's probably the best British actor of his generation. He is awesome, unbelievable, incredible. I know his work very well and i though WTF??? when he was cast as the Doctor but he was of course fantastic in it, because he is, well, fantastic. I HEART him.


----------



## Iguana (Jun 25, 2008)

Marius said:


> The working title for the Timelord talent show is called:
> 
> Whose Who?
> 
> Remember that you heard it here first.



Great, if the BBC do make this show you can share the blame with me.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 25, 2008)

tangerinedream said:


> Eccleston worked because he's probably the best British actor of his generation. He is awesome, unbelievable, incredible. I know his work very well and i though WTF??? when he was cast as the Doctor but he was of course fantastic in it, because he is, well, fantastic. I HEART him.



Aw  I can feel the love, I really can 

I don't think he was very much in most people's minds though – I can't remember the last time I'd seen him. I really only remember him from Shallow Grave. And now, obv. Heroes.


----------



## strung out (Jun 25, 2008)

that one where he was god was good


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2008)

strung_out said:


> that one where he was god was good



lulz god or messiah?


----------



## Gromit (Jun 25, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> Aw  I can feel the love, I really can
> 
> I don't think he was very much in most people's minds though – I can't remember the last time I'd seen him. I really only remember him from Shallow Grave. And now, obv. Heroes.


 
I thought of him as from 28 days later. He's brill in that.


----------



## strung out (Jun 25, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> lulz god or messiah?



aye!


----------



## Scaggs (Jun 26, 2008)

I think Rob Brydon would make a brilliant Doctor, Nessa (Ruth Jones) as his assistant would be good too.


----------



## scifisam (Jun 26, 2008)

I don't like any of these suggestions for the next doctor, none at all. 

And why would the BBC go for a grammatically incorrect show title, hmm?


----------



## Flashman (Jun 26, 2008)




----------



## belboid (Jun 26, 2008)

Flashman said:


>





SpookyFrank said:


> E2a: someone's suggested Dominic West already right? He is English really.




so, basically anyone from The Wire would be good....

(Aidan would be another top choice, not quite as convinced by Dominic)


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 26, 2008)

Marius said:


> The working title for the Timelord talent show is called:
> 
> Whose Who?
> 
> Remember that you heard it here first.



sure they'd go for funky illiteration and cgo for some thing like

you chose what we do about whose who


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 26, 2008)

belboid said:


> so, basically anyone from The Wire would be good....
> 
> (Aidan would be another top choice, not quite as convinced by Dominic)


Yeah, I'm not too sure about West. Aidan would be fantastic, though.


----------



## Final (Jun 26, 2008)

I CAN NOT wait for this next episode.

Hopefully we're going to see Tennant do his 'I are serious doctor' bit.  He switches it up so well.


----------



## Flashman (Jun 26, 2008)

Yep Gillen would be my first choice. Marsters would be great but maybe he's still too Spikey. 

Both would do it if offered I reckon.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2008)

He's already been in Torchwood. And I wanted to end it all in shame for spotting evertfucking buffy reference


----------



## Final (Jun 26, 2008)

James Marsters would be cool, also Hugh Laurie.


----------



## Flashman (Jun 26, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> He's already been in Torchwood. And I wanted to end it all in shame for spotting evertfucking buffy reference



Oh soz didn't know, gave up on Torchwood mid series 1.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2008)

Flashman said:


> Oh soz didn't know, gave up on Torchwood mid series 1.




I only wish I'd emulated your example. It really was a bag of Fail. The two Marsters episodes were as good as it got frankly.


----------



## Final (Jun 26, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I only wish I'd emulated your example. It really was a bag of Fail. The two Marsters episodes were as good as it got frankly.



I watched them all 

Still optimistic that it might get it's act together in the future.

(is there going to be a season 3?)


----------



## Belushi (Jun 26, 2008)

The only decent episode was the one where my cousing played a welsh cannibal


----------



## elevendayempire (Jun 26, 2008)

Final said:


> I watched them all
> 
> Still optimistic that it might get it's act together in the future.
> 
> (is there going to be a season 3?)


Yup. Only five episodes, though, and shown over the course of one week, apparently.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 26, 2008)

According to the Express Tennant has signed up for another series after next year's specials.  I'm chuffed.


----------



## Flashman (Jun 26, 2008)

I'm now going to have to d/l the Torchwood eps with Marsters in, what a sad little Buffy fan-boy I am


----------



## Final (Jun 26, 2008)

Flashman said:


> I'm now going to have to d/l the Torchwood eps with Marsters in, what a sad little Buffy fan-boy I am



It's worth it - he uses his (excellent) English accent


----------



## belboid (Jun 26, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> According to the Express Tennant has signed up for another series after next year's specials.  I'm chuffed.



good.  There never was any real indication that he'd be leaving - other than the whole team taking (most of) a year off, but that's hardly just him, is it?  And why the hell would he? He seems to be having the time of his life!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 26, 2008)

Here's the web version of the story, which has a slightly different angle from the print version:

http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/49882/Who-s-set-for-a-1-3m-pay-day-


----------



## belboid (Jun 26, 2008)

good stuff, no wonder he's happy. I'm off to see him as Hamlet as well, which sounds jolly entertaining


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 26, 2008)

belboid said:


> good stuff, no wonder he's happy. I'm off to see him as Hamlet as well, which sounds jolly entertaining


Excellent.  Will you post a review?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2008)

£100, 000 a show. Lovely payday.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 26, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> £100, 000 a show. Lovely payday.


It's bizarrely well-rewarded.  But in my view, Dr Who when it's on form is the best thing on TV, infinitely more entertaining than Jonathon Ross.  So let him have it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2008)

oh yeah, I don't begrudge him that, not compared to Wossy's payday, which is rivalled only by his ego


----------



## belboid (Jun 26, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Excellent.  Will you post a review?



depends how drunk I am, and whether I can follow the damned thing. Never seen any version of it at all I dont think, tho I have a copy of Karismaki's (?) Hamlet Goes Business somewhere.  i think.

It's the one with the skull, innit?


----------



## secretsquirrel (Jun 26, 2008)

belboid said:


> so, basically anyone from The Wire would be good....
> 
> (Aidan would be another top choice, not quite as convinced by Dominic)



Holy Moly already has Aidan as odds on favourite. I could live with that.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 26, 2008)

secretsquirrel said:


> Holy Moly already has Aidan as odds on favourite. I could live with that.



I could cope with that I reckon. Most people will probably only remember him from Queer as Folk, us more discerning folks will know him from The Wire, but he could do it, he could make the cross-over.

Anyway, excellent news that there's still hope for Tennant to be back


----------



## Flashman (Jun 26, 2008)

belboid said:


> good.  There never was any real indication that he'd be leaving - other than the whole team taking (most of) a year off, but that's hardly just him, is it?  And why the hell would he? He seems to be having the time of his life!



Yeah but speculating on a new Doctor is fun.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 26, 2008)

belboid said:


> It's the one with the skull, innit?




Yes.  

Dad dies.  Comes back as ghost.  Son agonises over whether to accuse Mum & uncle (who shack up).  Son accidently kills Dad's mate.  Dad's mate's daughter in love with Hamlet goes mad and drowns.  Son's actions lead to deaths of two Jewish blokes.  Son's torment leads to mental health issues.

I'll not give away the ending, though.  But it's not good for anyone left standing by that time.


----------



## ovaltina (Jun 26, 2008)

secretsquirrel said:


> Holy Moly already has Aidan as odds on favourite. I could live with that.



GASP!! 

That'd be lovely. He's lush


----------



## belboid (Jun 26, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Yes.
> 
> Dad dies.  Comes back as ghost.  Son agonises over whether to accuse Mum & uncle (who shack up).  Son accidently kills Dad's mate.  Dad's mate's daughter in love with Hamlet goes mad and drowns.  Son's actions lead to deaths of two Jewish blokes.  Son's torment leads to mental health issues.
> 
> I'll not give away the ending, though.  But it's not good for anyone left standing by that time.



bloody hell, you've all but given the game away.  You're almost as bad as the bastard who told me ******** **** gets blown away at the end of season 3 of The Wire.  And that blokes dead now, so be warned!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2008)

I think 200 years is enough time passed to allow spoilers.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 26, 2008)

belboid said:


> bloody hell, you've all but given the game away.


  It's all in the telling, though.  Shakespeare's not about plotting.  (He stole all his best plots, and wrote all his worst ones).  It's about the interplay of character and circumstance.


----------



## belboid (Jun 26, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I think 200 years is enough time passed to allow spoilers.



only _two_ hundred??!!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 26, 2008)

belboid said:


> only _two_ hundred??!!


Yes, this one was written by Bob Shakespeare, William's great, great, great, great, great grandson.


----------



## Final (Jun 26, 2008)

Eh?

what fucktards took part in this survey?



> James Nesbitt has been voted the actor that Doctor Who fans would most like to see take over from David Tennant.
> 
> Out of 3,500 Doctor Who viewers surveyed on behalf of the Doctor Who Exhibition at Earls Court, 714 fans want to see the Cold Feet star as the next incarnation of the Time Lord.



http://www.whatsontv.co.uk/news/3539

*cries*


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 26, 2008)

Final said:


> Eh?
> 
> what fucktards took part in this survey?
> 
> ...


Oh my Jesus.


----------



## Final (Jun 26, 2008)

> An army of enthusiasts is recreating lost instalments of the Doctor's adventures with hand-drawn and computer animations



http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/jun/26/bbc.doctorwho


Good work by those guys - would be good to see some of the old ones again.  Even if it's animated, it's still cannon.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2008)

> The programme has always had a very loyal, and often talented, fanbase. It was its dedicated fans who in the 1960s weren't hiding behind the sofa, but holding microphones up to their televisions week after week, that meant that all of the missing 108 instalments still exist as audio recordings; and it has been today's fans who have, over the past few years, been working on bringing these "lost" recordings back to life through animation.



awesome


----------



## 8den (Jun 26, 2008)

Final said:


> Eh?
> 
> what fucktards took part in this survey?
> 
> ...



Jesus christ, what's next casting some bint with a bunch of stock comedy catch phrases as his Assistant?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2008)

So ecclescake left because he didn't want to get typecast. At the time I thought 'Twat'.

However when watching Gone In 60 Seconds the other day, evertime he was on screen I was pointing 'its doctor who! its doctor who!'

so on reflection he is not a twat


----------



## Final (Jun 26, 2008)

edit: deleted


----------



## Iguana (Jun 26, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> So ecclescake left because he didn't want to get typecast. At the time I thought 'Twat'.
> 
> However when watching Gone In 60 Seconds the other day, evertime he was on screen I was pointing 'its doctor who! its doctor who!'
> 
> so on reflection he is not a twat



Although perhaps this was something to consider before he accepted the role.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 26, 2008)

Iguana said:


> Although perhaps this was something to consider before he accepted the role.



I didn't think his decision to quit was entirely down to being typecast, I think the punishing schedule put him off. Isn't it something like nine months a year and six-day weeks?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 26, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> I didn't think his decision to quit was entirely down to being typecast, I think the punishing schedule put him off. Isn't it something like nine months a year and six-day weeks?


A BBC spokesperson said the typecast thing, but later withdrew the remark when Ecclecake complained.


----------



## Santino (Jun 26, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> Isn't it something like nine months a year and six-day weeks?


For a dozen or so 45 minute episodes?


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 26, 2008)

Alex B said:


> For a dozen or so 45 minute episodes?



Not stating it as fact, only what I've heard on OG and elsewhere. 

It's 13 episodes and a Christmas special (which Eccleston didn't do) – I can see how learning lines, read throughs and actual filming could really eat up the time though.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 26, 2008)

Final said:


> Eh?
> 
> what fucktards took part in this survey?
> 
> ...



They're probably just picking a name they recognise off a list. To be honest I haven't heard of half the actors suggested on this thread (the fact i've never seen The Wire might have something to do with that).


----------



## Iguana (Jun 26, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> It's 13 episodes and a Christmas special (which Eccleston didn't do) – I can see how learning lines, read throughs and actual filming could really eat up the time though.



But plenty of actors on American series do 22 44min episodes a year.  And a movie or two.


----------



## Vash (Jun 26, 2008)

Have a reality TV show to decide who's the next Doctor like I'll do anything or similar bollocks.  £5 if the BBC do that please.


----------



## Final (Jun 26, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> They're probably just picking a name they recognise off a list. To be honest I haven't heard of half the actors suggested on this thread (the fact i've never seen The Wire might have something to do with that).








Anyone here been to the Dr Who exhibition at Earls Court?

Any good?

Take part in any surveys?


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 26, 2008)

Alex B said:


> For a dozen or so 45 minute episodes?


easily


Iguana said:


> But plenty of actors on American series do 22 44min episodes a year.  And a movie or two.


they don' t spend the read-through and rehearsal time.  also, american series anre almost all filmed in studio complexes, which is massively faster than location shooting.  shooting the street stuff for 'turn left' will easily have taken a day on its own.  i'd be surprised if they're getting an episode a week.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 27, 2008)

Stephen Fry.

Long wordy descriptions of things topped of with a sexual innuendo as dressed in his finery he sipped on his cup of tea before offing the Daleks (or as he would say "Actually pronounced Da-Lek and not da-Lik which is a completely blah blah blah blah etc")

Heh


----------



## scifisam (Jun 27, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> According to the Express Tennant has signed up for another series after next year's specials.  I'm chuffed.



For once I can say that I really hope the Express is right.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 27, 2008)

scifisam said:


> For once I can say that I really hope the Express is right.


 
Don't blame him. He has to ride the gravy train as long as he can. 
One of those flavour of the month actors who will vanish once the public find a new flavour of the month. 1 or 2 roles after Who and that will be his lot.
I could be wrong and he might end up with longevity but the safe bet for actors is always to assume you don't until proven otherwise.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 27, 2008)

Final said:


> Anyone here been to the Dr Who exhibition at Earls Court?
> 
> Any good?
> 
> Take part in any surveys?



I took my four-year-old a few months ago. It terrified the life out of him and he spent most of the time clinging to my leg. I quite enjoyed it (the exhibition, not my son clinging to my leg)...


----------



## scifisam (Jun 27, 2008)

Marius said:


> Don't blame him. He has to ride the gravy train as long as he can.
> One of those flavour of the month actors who will vanish once the public find a new flavour of the month. 1 or 2 roles after Who and that will be his lot.
> I could be wrong and he might end up with longevity but the safe bet for actors is always to assume you don't until proven otherwise.



Oh, I don't blame him at all - even though I'm not so sure he'll be written off that quickly, and he might be staying because he enjoys it and the money's great.

I'd like to see him in Hamlet too; I could imagine him doing it well, and it is one of my favourite stories ever.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 27, 2008)

Marius said:


> Don't blame him. He has to ride the gravy train as long as he can.
> One of those flavour of the month actors who will vanish once the public find a new flavour of the month. 1 or 2 roles after Who and that will be his lot.
> I could be wrong and he might end up with longevity but the safe bet for actors is always to assume you don't until proven otherwise.



erm he has quite an establihsed career as a theater actor... 

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0855039/


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 27, 2008)

Marius said:


> Don't blame him. He has to ride the gravy train as long as he can.
> One of those flavour of the month actors who will vanish once the public find a new flavour of the month. 1 or 2 roles after Who and that will be his lot.
> I could be wrong and he might end up with longevity but the safe bet for actors is always to assume you don't until proven otherwise.


oh i hope not, because he had an amazingly promising career prior to this.  Blackpool and Cassanova came off the back of a decent theatre career, including some very respectable big shakespeares.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 27, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> erm he has quite an establihsed career as a theater actor...
> 
> http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0855039/


 
Theater? Wots that? Does it get you into the Oscars?

Do you mean Panto? That thing hasbeens do?


----------



## PacificOcean (Jun 27, 2008)

David Tennant naked (not work safe)

http://www.gemmagarbett.piczo.com/?cr=3&rfm=y#

I would have regenerated with something bigger myself (do you get to choose?)


----------



## PacificOcean (Jun 27, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> oh i hope not, because he had an amazingly promising career prior to this.  Blackpool and Cassanova came off the back of a decent theatre career*, including some very respectable big shakespeares*.



Fnnar!

Not that big according to the pic above


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 27, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> David Tennant naked (not work safe)
> 
> http://www.gemmagarbett.piczo.com/?cr=3&rfm=y#
> 
> I would have regenerated with something bigger myself (do you get to choose?)




No. According to Lungbarrow the house loom weaves the patterns of your regeneration in at conception.


----------



## rollinder (Jun 28, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> No. According to Lungbarrow the house loom weaves the patterns of your regeneration in at conception.


 
so how come Romana got to picj who she turned into? & the Time Lords tried to get Troughton to pick his future bodies then?
/outgeeks Marc Plat Yay! oh....


----------



## Iguana (Jun 28, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> David Tennant naked (not work safe)
> 
> http://www.gemmagarbett.piczo.com/?cr=3&rfm=y#
> 
> I would have regenerated with something bigger myself (do you get to choose?)



So much for the nickname David Teninch.


----------



## scifisam (Jun 28, 2008)

That nekkid picture really is not attractive!


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 28, 2008)

ok yea i just watched the second episode of "The Library" and I concede it was pretty good 

this is teh proper Dr.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 28, 2008)

Marius said:


> Don't blame him. He has to ride the gravy train as long as he can.
> One of those flavour of the month actors who will vanish once the public find a new flavour of the month. 1 or 2 roles after Who and that will be his lot.
> I could be wrong and he might end up with longevity but the safe bet for actors is always to assume you don't until proven otherwise.



I think David Tennant will have a longer career than that and neither do I think he is "flavour of the month" - he was working with the RSC over 10 years ago, had a very good run of stage work before "Casanova" - he was excellent in "The Pillow Man" at the RNT for example - and "Dr Who" and I don't see there is any reason for him to resume that successful career after he has left the TARDIS for good.

Though I am sure part of the reason he was cast as "Hamlet" was the recogniseability of his name via "Dr. Who" I think given the trajectory of his career outside of that he would have played the part eventually anyway. And if it persuades some people to go to theatre, watch and hopefully enjoy Shakespeare I am all for that!


----------



## xsunnysuex (Jun 28, 2008)

Someone passed this onto me.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2008)

t-minus seven minutes

*gets excited*

Bad Wolf. Daleks. Captain Jack!


----------



## Vash (Jun 28, 2008)

How many nutters will call the Doctors number?


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 28, 2008)

ok - i need a spoiler about the regeneration and i need one now!


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 28, 2008)

Wow.  Kept that one quiet.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 28, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> ok - i need a spoiler about the regeneration and i need one now!



^This 

*travels through time to next week*


----------



## cesare (Jun 28, 2008)

oooh!

TO

BE

CONTINUED


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jun 28, 2008)

that was awesome.  WANT NEXT EPISODE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## cesare (Jun 28, 2008)

Russell T Davies


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2008)

Absolute 100% mega uber win.

The madusa cascade, the shadow proclamation

~AND DAVROS!!!!!!!!!!eleven11


----------



## kropotkin (Jun 28, 2008)

blam! 
That was ACE


----------



## cesare (Jun 28, 2008)

Donna's everlasting death


----------



## gnoriac (Jun 28, 2008)

Why does Davros make me think of Margaret Thatcher...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2008)

it's been suggested that tennant will continue. Perhaps there will be some time trickery to make the regeneration never happen. But we might get an abberation, a Doctor who erases the timeline of his recent regeneration while defeating the Daleks. He'd be fertile ground for non cannon doctor who books


----------



## Lisarocket (Jun 28, 2008)

Totally fucking brilliant 

I went NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!! when he started regenerating 'cos i don't want Tennant to go, but i'm reliably informed there may be a twist to it.


----------



## cesare (Jun 28, 2008)

gnoriac said:


> Why does Davros make me think of Margaret Thatcher...



YES!!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2008)

gnoriac said:


> Why does Davros make me think of Margaret Thatcher...



no, she was in this








also- was excellent to see O'Grady reprasenting.


----------



## Groucho (Jun 28, 2008)

Vash said:


> How many nutters will call the Doctors number?



You should. BBC have set something special up. 1st 100 callers get to be extras in the next series. 


or maybe not


----------



## spirals (Jun 28, 2008)

This series started at meh, got to hmmmm and is ending on wow!


----------



## Vash (Jun 28, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> ok - i need a spoiler about the regeneration and i need one now!



The regenerated Doctor turns out to be evil they use the hand to clone a new Doctor.  (I think)


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 28, 2008)

I was getting emotional just before he got zapped.

Brilliant!!!!!


----------



## dylanredefined (Jun 28, 2008)

ivebeenhigh said:


> that was awesome.  WANT NEXT EPISODE NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



dammn right


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2008)

Vash said:


> The regenerated Doctor turns out to be evil they use the hand to clone a new Doctor.  (I think)




aye we did get a shot of the hand, could be significant


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 28, 2008)

Spoiler: what happens



Paul McGann's Doctor appears to save the day, eventually defeating the daleks with a bottle of lighter fluid and a camberwell carrot





Spoiler: even bigger spoiler



Not really


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 28, 2008)

brilliant episode, though.  and i couldn't give a toss about daleks - totally unscary...  but again it was really well written. I mean, too many characters i couldn't give a toss about - and that computer at SJS's house is ridiculous and stupid, but i was sooooo excited at the end!

plus - Cpt Jack and Donna gettin it on, ftw!


----------



## gnoriac (Jun 28, 2008)

The mad, psychic dalek is dead good too. Please don't kill him off, I want an entire episode of him, if not an entire spin-off series.


----------



## the button (Jun 28, 2008)

gnoriac said:


> Why does Davros make me think of Margaret Thatcher...



Because he's an evil cunt?

And because, if he gets killed next week, there'll be people on here going, "I don't think it's really fair to gloat over the death of a black-hearted megalomaniac. Especially not one in a wheelchair (of sorts)."


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 28, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> no, she was in this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



and Richard Dawkins!  tho why he'd be a 'talking head' about an alien invasion is anyone's guess.

btw - not clicking on those spoilers in case they tell me too much.  i think i shall wait and see.


----------



## Dovydaitis (Jun 28, 2008)

im wondering where his daughter comes into it 

perhaps they use her as part of the regeneration. was an okish episode, could have done better. there were far too many characters


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jun 28, 2008)

will the 1 second time shift not be used again at some point maybe to prevent the regeneration?


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jun 28, 2008)

also they showed his hand again...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2008)

So, Davros bred a new army of loyal Daleks. Well and good.

But why drop the natty design of his Imperial Daleks from the 7th Doctor adventure?







White and gold is a nice combo on an interstellar killing machine


----------



## the button (Jun 28, 2008)

Dovydaitis said:


> there were far too many characters


They say that about _War and Peace_ too.


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jun 28, 2008)

ha stupid wait 30 seconds limit works quicker than the query executing incoming posts


----------



## Groucho (Jun 28, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Spoiler: what happens
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 28, 2008)

They seem to have killed off Tosh and Owen, although I can't say I'll miss them two much.


----------



## Dovydaitis (Jun 28, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> They seem to have killed off Tosh and Owen, although I can't say I'll miss them two much.



they were killed off in the last episode of torchwood. well, we know tosh was, owen not guaranteed


----------



## fen_boy (Jun 28, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> They seem to have killed off Tosh and Owen, although I can't say I'll miss them two much.



they're all 1 second out of kilter with the rest of the universe though!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 28, 2008)

Good episode! Was good to see Davros back. I kinda started to not give a shit about the daleks until this, but gotta say RTD's brought them back in a great way. Also, i suspected Tennant was leaving after this, no idea who'll replace him. Surprised i haven't heard anything about it this time(which is a good thing).


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 28, 2008)

Dovydaitis said:


> they were killed off in the last episode of torchwood. well, we know tosh was, owen not guaranteed



D'oh! Just realised I missed the last episode of the series 

*downloads frantically*

The Tosh getting killed spoiler doesn't bother me greatly though


----------



## moomoo (Jun 28, 2008)

That was brilliant!

Captain Jack and his big gun............


----------



## Dovydaitis (Jun 28, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> D'oh! Just realised I missed the last episode of the series
> 
> *downloads frantically*
> 
> The Tosh getting killed spoiler doesn't bother me greatly though



its quite a good episode. sorry about the spoiler


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 28, 2008)

Dovydaitis said:


> its quite a good episode. sorry about the spoiler



Meh, as long as they don't kill Gwen off I don't care


----------



## Miss Peabody (Jun 28, 2008)

From the Scotsman



> Doctor Who star set to get £1.3m to stay
> 
> THE BBC is rumoured to be ready to pay David Tennant a massive £1.3 million to carry on as Doctor Who.
> The Bathgate-born actor is expected to be offered a new deal worth up to £100,000 per episode.
> ...


----------



## cybertect (Jun 28, 2008)

gnoriac said:


> Why does Davros make me think of Margaret Thatcher...



Nah, that was always Servalan in Blake's 7.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jun 28, 2008)

Servalan was hot...Thatcher was not.   Not hot at all.


----------



## Iguana (Jun 28, 2008)

I was disappointed that General Sanchez couldn't _makepeace_ with the daleks.


Gets hat and leaves.


----------



## Final (Jun 28, 2008)

Next weeks episode is 15 mins longer than usual


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 28, 2008)

Miss Peabody said:


> From the Scotsman



That's a shame, Rose was being a total arse over the whole regeneration thing, at least he's not dying Rose let's get some perspective here!!! For that, i hope the timelines are altered and she stays stuck in her parallel universe for being a gurny cow. YOU WILL STAY IN YOUR UNIVERSE UNTIL YOU LEARN TO BEHAVE!


----------



## PacificOcean (Jun 28, 2008)

diamarzipan said:


> That's a shame, Rose was being a total arse over the whole regeneration thing, at least he's not dying Rose let's get some perspective here!!! For that, i hope the timelines are altered and she stays stuck in her parallel universe for being a gurny cow. YOU WILL STAY IN YOUR UNIVERSE UNTIL YOU LEARN TO BEHAVE!



Wasn't she Christopher Eccleston's assistant anyway and not Tennants?

I have only seen the first and this series.

Also, is that woman and kid in the house with the talking computer from Torchwood as I don't watch it, but Torchwood didn't seem to know who they were.


----------



## Final (Jun 28, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> Wasn't she Christopher Eccleston's assistant anyway and not Tennants?
> 
> I have only seen the first and this series.
> 
> Also, is that woman and kid in the house with the talking computer from Torchwood as I don't watch it, but Torchwood didn't seem to know who they were.



Piper did a series with Eccleston and then a series with Tennant.

The other woman is Sarah Jame Smith:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Jane_Smith


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2008)

diamarzipan said:


> That's a shame, Rose was being a total arse over the whole regeneration thing, at least he's not dying Rose let's get some perspective here!!! For that, i hope the timelines are altered and she stays stuck in her parallel universe for being a gurny cow. YOU WILL STAY IN YOUR UNIVERSE UNTIL YOU LEARN TO BEHAVE!



If someone changes personality and body can you regard them in the same way as the good friend you knew? I think you take regeneration too lightly. Yes the entity is the same entity, but it is far removed from the entity you fell in love with


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 28, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> Wasn't she Christopher Eccleston's assistant anyway and not Tennants?
> 
> I have only seen the first and this series.
> 
> Also, is that woman and kid in the house with the talking computer from Torchwood as I don't watch it, but Torchwood didn't seem to know who they were.



Both, she kicked up a fuss the first time around too. Which made her doing it a second time seem silly.... to me that suggests he isn't going to regenerate after all, like they are setting it up. But i don't know. They had better come up with a damn good reason if he doesn't!


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 28, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> Wasn't she Christopher Eccleston's assistant anyway and not Tennants?
> 
> I have only seen the first and this series.
> 
> Also, is that woman and kid in the house with the talking computer from Torchwood as I don't watch it, but Torchwood didn't seem to know who they were.


She was in series 1&2.  Ecclestone and Tennant's first.

The Sarah Jane Mysteries. Kids' TV Spinoff.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 28, 2008)

diamarzipan said:


> Both, she kicked up a fuss the first time around too. Which made her doing it a second time seem silly.... to me that suggests he isn't going to regenerate after all, like they are setting it up. But i don't know. They had better come up with a damn good reason if he doesn't!



Oh and the woman was his companion from waaaaay back in the.. i don't know what decade, i'm not a harcore fan. Before they brought it back this time around anyway.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 28, 2008)

Sarah Jayne is pertwee era iirc


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 28, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> She was in series 1&2.  Ecclestone and Tennant's first.
> 
> The Sarah Jane Mysteries. Kids' TV Spinoff.



Aha got it. The third and fourth doctors companion also.


----------



## Grego Morales (Jun 28, 2008)

Obviously, the Doctor will regenerate as David Tennant, it will just be a massive coincidence. 

When the Christopher Ecclestone Doctor regenerated I was hoping that he would return as Ricky Tomlinson. That's what happened in Cracker anyhoo.


----------



## Flashman (Jun 28, 2008)

Sonic screwdriver my arse.

That was fookin' mint, gobsmacked at the regeneration or pseudo one or whatever it turns out to be.

Win!


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 29, 2008)

Grego Morales said:


> Obviously, the Doctor will regenerate as David Tennant...QUOTE]
> 
> You're *half* right....


----------



## Grego Morales (Jun 29, 2008)

[QUOTE You're *half* right.... [/QUOTE]

I know nuffink...What do you know!?! Tell, tell us goshdarnit!


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2008)

The top half will be David Tennant but the bottom half of him is to be played by Judi Dench.


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 29, 2008)

Marius said:


> The top half will be David Tennant but the bottom half of him is to be played by Judi Dench.



i heard the bottom would be Maggie T.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

*has horrible vision of maggie t's bottom half*


damn you DC


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> damn you DC



you're welcome DC 

can you be DC1 and i'll be DC2?


----------



## gnoriac (Jun 29, 2008)

Now got my desktop set to:
Caan, mad dalek


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2008)

gnoriac said:


> Now got my desktop set to:
> Caan, mad dalek


 
Khan I was presuming it was spelt. As in king darlek.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 29, 2008)

Yeah it sounded like Khan to me.


----------



## Grego Morales (Jun 29, 2008)

Not James Caan?


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2008)

Grego Morales said:


> Not James Caan?


 
Nope but it could have been Beer Caan!

Or maybe he is named after that place in france that does film festivals.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 29, 2008)

Grego Morales said:


> [QUOTE You're *half* right....



I know nuffink...What do you know!?! Tell, tell us goshdarnit![/QUOTE]



Spoiler: could be



OK........I could be wrong, as you hear this stuff and it all gets twisted, but I used to do tv and radio stuff and still know a few peeps.

Anyhoo, its something about him not doing a complete regeneration as he appeared only to get winged not vapourised (he has two hearts innit, so maybe only one stopped - I dunno). Anyway, from what I understood, he becomes *two* doctors. Now I dont know if its two DT's or DT and Paul McGann, or anything, but I believe the hand in a glass has something to do with it.

Thats what I heard anyway.

But then also - having watched the episode, Dalek Caan talks about the ThreeFold man returning, so maybe he splits into 3? Would certainly fit with RTD's messiah complex - 3 being the trinity, or 3 being past , present and future maybe....

I'm probably wrong though!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> you're welcome DC
> 
> can you be DC1 and i'll be DC2?



Hard to decide given the all are equal thing. I reckon you should be DCity and I Dcommunist. Evades those pesky questions of who was here first and such bollox


----------



## gnoriac (Jun 29, 2008)

I thought he was called Tahn until I got onto the BBC website.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 29, 2008)

Full name - Laahndan Tahn

*does knees up*


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 29, 2008)

Did anyone watch the Confidential and notice the two extra cast members not yet seen so far...?

Mickie and Rose's mum make a reappearance it seems.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 29, 2008)

can someone tell me if the post about three above this one, that speculates on the ending - gives enough detail that if it is true it would be a spoiler?  and if it does, could the poster in question us the spoiler code, please?

i skippedit when it looked like it might be one, but i might catch it by accident next time..


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Hard to decide given the all are equal thing. I reckon you should be DCity and I Dcommunist. Evades those pesky questions of who was here first and such bollox



no, i'm very willing to be DC2 as you were here first...


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 29, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> can someone tell me if the post about three above this one, that speculates on the ending - gives enough detail that if it is true it would be a spoiler?  and if it does, could the poster in question us the spoiler code, please?
> 
> i skippedit when it looked like it might be one, but i might catch it by accident next time..



Sorry! spoiler code - done.


----------



## Vash (Jun 29, 2008)

There will be a reset as the faact that the Daleks have killed half the planet takes it too far from the real world.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 29, 2008)

Maybe with Donna going back and changing something again?


----------



## Vash (Jun 29, 2008)

This could be true.



Spoiler:  ending



The red dalek is meant to be the master


----------



## emanymton (Jun 29, 2008)

Could someone answer me a few questions?

Why where all those planets moved anyway?
Why where 3 moved at different times to the others?
How where they moved?
Why did the TARDIS not move with the earth as it was sitting on top of it?
Why where there rocks outside the TARDIS after the earth was moved?
What was that bit about the bees again?


----------



## Vash (Jun 29, 2008)

Apparently the timelords seeding 27 planets with there DNA so they'd evolve into new timelords.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> it's been suggested that tennant will continue. Perhaps there will be some time trickery to make the regeneration never happen. But we might get an abberation, a Doctor who erases the timeline of his recent regeneration while defeating the Daleks. He'd be fertile ground for non cannon doctor who books



it's not real is it...

the white faced red eyed thing said you've something on yor back to donna and apologised for her immenant death...

the time beetle on her back wasn't dead kinda like the red dwarf better than life game episode which was caused by the dispar squid.

this is all happening from a time loop created inside of when ever it was she intially caught the time beetle then when she dies the time loop will close the new dr will cease to be and the amalagamantion of the assistants will never have happened no darleks no davros no shadow prolimation no medusa cascade all blinked back in to the what if's from turn left.

Is my prediction.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 29, 2008)

Final said:


> BBC might need to sack Jonathan Ross to pay the wages (no big loss), but for a non-uk doctor I'd be happy with Nathan  Fillion.



Balls to that. Alan Tudyk would make a much better Dr Who!!


----------



## emanymton (Jun 29, 2008)

Something like that does seem likly, i do hope not though


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> If someone changes personality and body can you regard them in the same way as the good friend you knew? I think you take regeneration too lightly. Yes the entity is the same entity, but it is far removed from the entity you fell in love with



in fact it's now two people removed from the one you fell in love with...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 29, 2008)

Vash said:


> There will be a reset as the faact that the Daleks have killed half the planet takes it too far from the real world.



They don't seem to have killed that many people off, they're mostly just rounding them up for some nefarious purpose or other. I hope they don't do any more resets, but with the whole regeneration thing it seems that they probably will


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 29, 2008)

Final said:


> Eh?
> 
> what fucktards took part in this survey?
> 
> ...



714 out of 3500 means he got less than 21% of the votes, which is hardly a ringing endorsement of the curd-faced self-regarding Nesbitt, is it?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 29, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> David Tennant naked (not work safe)
> 
> http://www.gemmagarbett.piczo.com/?cr=3&rfm=y#
> 
> I would have regenerated with something bigger myself (do you get to choose?)



He's a grower, not a shower. 




Helen Back said:


> Did anyone watch the Confidential and notice the two extra cast members not yet seen so far...?
> 
> Mickie and Rose's mum make a reappearance it seems.



I noticed that. I'm so looking forward to next week!



GarfieldLeChat said:


> it's not real is it...
> 
> the white faced red eyed thing said you've something on yor back to donna and apologised for her immenant death...
> 
> ...



The woman said "you _had_ something on your back" – past tense. I thought it was just a way of reminding people about Donna's importance in whatever is to come.

I reckon the fact that they are all 1 second out of synch will be important to the final solution.

God, that sounds awful lol.


----------



## cybertect (Jun 29, 2008)

Was there a parting message from the bees saying something like "So long and thanks for all the flowers"?


----------



## Helen Back (Jun 29, 2008)

emanymton said:


> Could someone answer me a few questions?
> What was that bit about the bees again?



Bees are on the what now?


----------



## Iguana (Jun 29, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> The woman said "you _had_ something on your back" – past tense. I thought it was just a way of reminding people about Donna's importance in whatever is to come.



And she didn't mention her imminent death, she apologised for her loss which is to come.  Which when put together with the fortune teller's "What are you? What will you become?" last week, suggests that Donna doesn't die but she ascends into something beyond human.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 29, 2008)

Does Donna mean anything? Like the name? Because, well, there's Noble, which is a bit bleedin' obvious. It'd be nice if Donna meant something too.


----------



## Final (Jun 29, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> Does Donna mean anything? Like the name? Because, well, there's Noble, which is a bit bleedin' obvious. It'd be nice if Donna meant something too.



Italian in origin, means lady.

Don(na) Corleone.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 29, 2008)

Final said:


> Italian in origin, means lady.
> 
> Don(na) Corleone.



Oh, that's a bit boring really.

Unless, I suppose, she becomes some sort of noblewoman of the universe or something.

Oh, and lolz at the thought of Donna Corleone


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2008)

Final said:


> Italian in origin, means lady.
> 
> Don(na) Corleone.


 
Nice try but it is in fact Greek in origin and means meat in pitta bread.


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jun 29, 2008)

Osterhagen is an anagram of Earths gone.

Hmm.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 29, 2008)

ivebeenhigh said:


> Osterhagen is an anagram of Earths gone.
> 
> Hmm.



To be grammatically correct the name, therefore, needs to be Irish: O'Sterhagen.


----------



## Augie March (Jun 29, 2008)

Last night's episode was rather good. I've missed most of this series, so what is the hand in a jar all about then?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 29, 2008)

OK I missed this as usual and won't be able to watch it today. Is there another repeat?


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jun 29, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> OK I missed this as usual and won't be able to watch it today. Is there another repeat?



on iplayer for the rest of the week.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

Augie March said:


> Last night's episode was rather good. I've missed most of this series, so what is the hand in a jar all about then?





It's the doctors hand. Last time we saw it the master used it for nefarious purposes


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

emanymton said:


> Could someone answer me a few questions?
> 
> Why where all those planets moved anyway?
> Why where 3 moved at different times to the others?
> ...




1. remember how at the Shadow Proclamaition they moved into a perfect sequence? like some sort of machine, the doc said

2. Moved in time as well as space remember?

2. We don't know yet, but this is stavros we're talking about. He has aways been a genius on a par with the doctor

3. good question

4. space junk.

5. The bees are aliens and were fucking off home, like the dolphins in 'So long and thanks for all the fish'


----------



## liampreston (Jun 29, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> To be grammatically correct the name, therefore, needs to be Irish: O'Sterhagen.




Ó Staeghren, heh =)


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 29, 2008)

Iguana said:


> And she didn't mention her imminent death, she apologised for her loss which is to come.  Which when put together with the fortune teller's "What are you? What will you become?" last week, suggests that Donna doesn't die but she ascends into something beyond human.



I reckon Rose cops it rather than Donna. Shame it won't be Martha - I'd be happy not to have any more Dr. Jones reappearances


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

at least she didn't 'cry' this episode. That would have knocked at least 10 points of Win from the episode


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 29, 2008)

next weeks trailer

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/v...torwho/playlists/s4_12/video/s4_12_trl_05.xml


----------



## Balbi (Jun 29, 2008)

.......squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee :d


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 29, 2008)

AverageJoe said:


> next weeks trailer
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/vi..._12_trl_05.xml



That doesn't work


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Jun 29, 2008)

I must be alone in not liking that one too much. Loathe RTD's spin-offs and don't want them infesting proper _Who_. The Shadow Proclamation was disappointing and Billie Piper wiv enormous weapon isn't quite as iconic as the direction seemed to hope.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 29, 2008)

It's here though:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/e...&info=&info2=&info3=&tag_file_id=s4_12_trl_05


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 29, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> That doesn't work



yes it does!

Loks like it may have been moved between me posting etc. Have amended the link so it works again


----------



## emanymton (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> 1. remember how at the Shadow Proclamaition they moved into a perfect sequence? like some sort of machine, the doc said
> 
> 2. Moved in time as well as space remember?
> 
> ...



Ahhh glorious pedantry.
1, Yeah but to do what, and how can planets function as a machine?

2, But why where only 3 moved in time?

2, Fair enough

3, Thank you

4, But it was in the space previously occupied by the earth there should have been nothing there.

5, Oh I got that bit it was the bit about using them to track down the earth that made me go; you wot.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> If someone changes personality and body can you regard them in the same way as the good friend you knew? I think you take regeneration too lightly. Yes the entity is the same entity, but it is far removed from the entity you fell in love with


My post quite clearly wasn't a serious one. Already aware of all the above.But this is in the context of a show, one where Rose has taken other things in her stride that you wouldn't normally. I think her pleading for the doctor not to change was all part of the cliffhanger. Will he change? Won't he change? Is David Tennant quitting or isn't he? Had they decided he was leaving the regeneration probably would have just went ahead without much hassle.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 29, 2008)

emanymton said:


> Ahhh glorious pedantry.
> 1, Yeah but to do what, and how can planets function as a machine?
> 
> 2, Fair enough
> ...



4. I think the planets rearranged themselves to fill the gaps. Gravity and all that. Like they did on the screen when he put in the lost moon of poooooosh.


----------



## emanymton (Jun 29, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> It's here though:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/e...&info=&info2=&info3=&tag_file_id=s4_12_trl_05



The destruction of the whole of reality?
The phrase cutting of you nose to spite you face comes to mind


----------



## Groucho (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> ...
> 2. We don't know yet, but this is *stavros* we're talking about. He has aways been a genius on a par with the doctor
> ....


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

The newspaper said he's staying on for another season, plus theres 6 (or maybe 4 cant recall) special eps during next years who-break. So I think he's staying.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

Groucho said:


>




Davros ennit. I usaually call him starvros cause Davros makes me think off Bobby Davro, which is never a good thing


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> The newspaper said he's staying on for another season, plus theres 6 (or maybe 4 cant recall) special eps during next years who-break. So I think he's staying.



Oh aye definately.

and 3. I think it was just as easy for the daleks to take planets out of time and space. No special reason. Timey wibbley wimey wombley free.


----------



## ivebeenhigh (Jun 29, 2008)

tate has said that she isnt in any more after this series...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 29, 2008)

ivebeenhigh said:


> tate has said that she isnt in any more after this series...



Deadded.

Or noblewomaned.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Davros ennit. I usaually call him starvros cause Davros makes me think off Bobby Davro, which is never a good thing



HAHAHAHA i didn't even notice. I was confused at the GIF. I didn't want to ask in case i missed something silly.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 29, 2008)

That trailer was for last week no? It had all of last weeks footage.. :-/


----------



## Melinda (Jun 29, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> OK I missed this as usual and won't be able to watch it today. Is there another repeat?


Tonight,  8pm BBC 3.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 29, 2008)

diamarzipan said:


> That trailer was for last week no? It had all of last weeks footage.. :-/



No. Seemed new to me.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> It's here though:
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/s4/e...&info=&info2=&info3=&tag_file_id=s4_12_trl_05






YaY! I'd forgotten just how intense Stavros can be when he gets going


----------



## Detroit City (Jun 29, 2008)

so is this buzz all about the series finale?  must have been pretty good, eh?  i'll catch it in about a month


----------



## Augie March (Jun 29, 2008)

diamarzipan said:


> That trailer was for last week no? It had all of last weeks footage.. :-/



All the Doctor footage was from the last episode, probably because they don't want to spoil whatever happens to him after his 'death'.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2008)

I wasn't impressed to be honest. It was one great big scene setting. As an episode on its own its rubbish. Just hope the second part makes up for the need for all those introductions.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

edit, spoiler code is being broke

oooooh



Spoiler: stuff



There are also reports that former prime minister Harriet Jones joins the Daleks, or even turns into a Dalek. (They wouldn't really do that, would they?) Oh, and someone snapped some pics of the Doctor (wearing two different suits, as if there are two alternate Doctors) with Rose and Donna on a beach, with the TARDIS. The Doctor gets rained on, and leaves in the TARDIS on his own (probably at the end.)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 29, 2008)

Marius said:


> I wasn't impressed to be honest. It was one great big scene setting. As an episode on its own its rubbish. Just hope the second part makes up for the need for all those introductions.



^This. I suspect the final episode will make it all worthwhile though 

And with the whole planet calling the doctor, wouldn't all the calls get blocked off if they were at the same time? Like trying to send a text at five past midnight on new year's eve


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

yes and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't send out massive cartoon style rings either.


----------



## Leafster (Jun 29, 2008)

emanymton said:


> 5, Oh I got that bit it was the bit about using them to track down the earth that made me go; you wot.


I watched the episode again. It seems the Bees used some sort of carrier wave to get home on the Tandoka Scale  The Transmat used to move the planets also used the same method so the Doctor was able to pick up the trail from that. At least that's what I think he was babbling on about.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 29, 2008)

I liked that. Taped in when I was out, then came back pissed and watched it and cheered the Daleks and Ianto like we were watching a football match. My mate admitted to fancying Catherine Tate.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> yes and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't send out massive cartoon style rings either.



A nod to old-school doctor who 'special effects' I feel, a nice contrast with the swanky CGI of invading dalek spaceships etc


----------



## emanymton (Jun 29, 2008)

Leafster said:


> I watched the episode again. It seems the Bees used some sort of carrier wave to get home on the Tandoka Scale  The Transmat used to move the planets also used the same method so the Doctor was able to pick up the trail from that. At least that's what I think he was babbling on about.



I’m dyslexic and have noticed then when I’m hand writing and I’m not sure how to spell something I tend to ‘fudge it’ by letting my handwriting get worse so it’s not clear what certain letters are. I think something similar happened with the bees and Tennat just mumbled rubbish in the hope we would buy it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

I'm sure Wishface will be along to moan about the 'doctor as messiah' thing shortly, but I felt it wasn't overdone in this ep.


----------



## Groucho (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm sure Wishface will be along to moan about the 'doctor as messiah' thing shortly, but I felt it wasn't overdone in this ep.



Yeh, the kids need something to believe in.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

Groucho said:


> Yeh, the kids need something to believe in.



Ennit. And a hero who hates guns and suffers with pangs of conciensce for killing, even when the destroyed were clearly the most evil bastards imaginable, is a good role model imo


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 29, 2008)

Vash said:


> The regenerated Doctor turns out to be evil they use the hand to clone a new Doctor.  (I think)



Yes, I wish they'd hurry up and get over-and-done-with whatever they intend to do with *that bloody hand!!*. And then not have it feature again any more! Please!

A so-so episode. Shame we've seen it all umpteen times before - loads of crowds running and screaming from the invasion that'll be reset-switched out at the end. Again.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 29, 2008)

I liked the mad Dalek as well.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> I liked the mad Dalek as well.



Dalek Khan was awesome.


Also, Cribbens got some great lines. What was that bit with th 'its them aliens again! green buggers'. Made I lol


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 29, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Yes, I wish they'd hurry up and get over-and-done-with whatever they intend to do with *that bloody hand!!*. And then not have it feature again any more! Please!



Careful what you wish for.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Dalek Khan was awesome.
> 
> 
> Also, Cribbens got some great lines. What was that bit with th 'its them aliens again! green buggers'. Made I lol



"can we swap?" was ad libbed apparently


----------



## rapattaque (Jun 29, 2008)

I for one was thoroughly dissapointed with the lack of extermiantion. I want these daleks to scare the shit out of me, I think I only saw one person get sizzled and turn into a negative image of themselves. There were a couple of cut aways just before extermination and that house getting blown up, but that was about it.  It's not enough!


----------



## rapattaque (Jun 29, 2008)

And with reference to regeneration... surely now is the time for the Doctor to regenerate as Roger Moore!


----------



## Balbi (Jun 29, 2008)

Oh come on rapattaque! Finally, after more than thirty years a Dalek actually shot the Doctor when it had the chance without faffing about and fucking it all up.


----------



## rapattaque (Jun 29, 2008)

OK good point! 

Although the very fact it's taken them 30 years to bag him combined with the bbc's recorded footage of their woefully low extermination rate are reasons why I for one still need convincing that the daleks are as badass as everyone makes out. It's only the Doctors word we've got for it and, far be it from me to criticise a timelord, but he does choose to travel time and space with Catherine Tate.


----------



## rapattaque (Jun 29, 2008)

Leafster said:


> I watched the episode again. It seems the Bees used some sort of carrier wave to get home on the Tandoka Scale  The Transmat used to move the planets also used the same method so the Doctor was able to pick up the trail from that. At least that's what I think he was babbling on about.



Bille's mouth looked like she'd be stung by a bee.


----------



## Final (Jun 29, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> Bille's mouth looked like she'd be stung by a bee.



lol

/slap


----------



## emanymton (Jun 29, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> OK good point!
> 
> Although the very fact it's taken them 30 years to bag him combined with the bbc's recorded footage of their woefully low extermination rate are reasons why I for one still need convincing that the daleks are as badass as everyone makes out. It's only the Doctors word we've got for it and, far be it from me to criticise a timelord, but he does choose to travel time and space with Catherine Tate.



He just talks them up to make himself look hard


----------



## emanymton (Jun 29, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> Bille's mouth looked like she'd be stung by a bee.



At least she sounded OK this time


----------



## Balbi (Jun 29, 2008)

emanymton said:


> He just talks them up to make himself look hard



Innit. Stavros looks a bit rubbish compared to The Master or the Dalek Emporer....


----------



## Iguana (Jun 29, 2008)

Balbi said:


> "can we swap?" was ad libbed apparently



That was the best bit.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jun 29, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> yes and I'm pretty sure it wouldn't send out massive cartoon style rings either.



i remarked at the time that even babylon 5 had better cgi space and it still has aged better than that set of graphics they used...


----------



## cesare (Jun 29, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> OK good point!
> 
> Although the very fact it's taken them 30 years to bag him combined with the bbc's recorded footage of their woefully low extermination rate are reasons why I for one still need convincing that the daleks are as badass as everyone makes out. It's only the Doctors word we've got for it and, far be it from me to criticise a timelord, but he does choose to travel time and space with Catherine Tate.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 30, 2008)

Wow what was all that about? I got back from some light drinking for someones birthday and felt rather stressed out watching it. 


Also didn't sladens robot machine thing turn out to be a baddie? Didn't she smash it up?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

I have to say I quite enjoyed that episode.  BUT it was pretty rubbish.  It felt all tacked together, and I have a funny feeling there's another Magic Fix coming.  I can't be bothered going through the plot holes, inconsistencies, and just plain bad writing.  

I've found the finales have generally been pretty poor compared to the series as a whole.  Which doesn't bode well for this series!


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I have a funny feeling there's another Magic Fix coming.



Yes, it's almost inevitable. It's become pathetically predictble - to the point hwere it's hard to even care what's happening, as you're rthinking "well, it'll be _deux-ex-machina'd _out of existance next week, anyway"


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

poster342002 said:


> Yes, it's almost inevitable. It's become pathetically predictble - to the point hwere it's hard to even care what's happening, as you're rthinking "well, it'll be _deux-ex-machina'd _out of existance next week, anyway"


That's one ofthe reasons I didn't like the episode everyone here seemed to like:  it was a big Alice in Wonderland cop out, and any fool could see it coming!  Like the Master finale.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I have to say I quite enjoyed that episode.  BUT it was pretty rubbish.  It felt all tacked together, and I have a funny feeling there's another Magic Fix coming.  I can't be bothered going through the plot holes, inconsistencies, and just plain bad writing.
> 
> I've found the finales have generally been pretty poor compared to the series as a whole.  Which doesn't bode well for this series!



Miserable git.  It was brilliant.

It's light entertainment for the masses on BBC1 on a Saturday Evening.

Why do people have to be all nerdy about it and not just enjoy it for what it is?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> Miserable git.  It was brilliant.


What was?  Saturday's episode?  I already said I enjoyed that one. (Despite its faults).

The thing is, Dr Who has (since its relaunch) often been the best thing on TV.  And the first 3 series were consistently excellent  (the 3rd one was more patchy, but it did have Blink, which was the best episode ever).  But this current one has over all fallen way short  (except for the Library and Agatha Christie).  

I want it to be good Saturday evening family viewing: that's what I watch it for.  I'm not expecting Beckett; I don't want Beckett.  But I do want it to live up to the quality family entertainment standards it's capable of.

Why that should be considered "nerdy", I have no idea.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 30, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> i remarked at the time that even babylon 5 had better cgi space and it still has aged better than that set of graphics they used...



Babylon 5's a big pile of shite!! 

Davros ftw... he looked awesome.

So is that it for Tennant then?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> So is that it for Tennant then?



Do you want the spoiler?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 30, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Dalek Khan was awesome.



According to the Beeb's sub-titling, it's definitely "Caan", not "Khan".

He was fucking brilliant with his little eruptions of demented rhyming prophecy, though, wasn't he?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 30, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> According to the Beeb's sub-titling, it's definitely "Caan", not "Khan".
> 
> He was fucking brilliant with his little eruptions of demented rhyming prophecy, though, wasn't he?



I will always here it as a shouted "CAAAAAAANNNNNNN" the same way that I always hear "KHAAAAAANNNNN" 

He was quite cool though!


----------



## PacificOcean (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Why that should be considered "nerdy", I have no idea.



It's just saying "I can't be bothered going through the plot holes, inconsistencies, and just plain bad writing.", makes you sound like Comicbook Guy.


----------



## Final (Jun 30, 2008)

Summary of theories for last episode:

http://denofgeek.com/television/77243/doctor_who_lots_of_theories_for_the_last_episode.html


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 30, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> Miserable git.  It was brilliant.
> 
> It's light entertainment for the masses on BBC1 on a Saturday Evening.
> 
> Why do people have to be all nerdy about it and not just enjoy it for what it is?





They just like to bitch about everything.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

> Also an outside shot, although he’s not a companion of the Doctor as such: what about Bernard Cribbins? Donna has been told she’s facing a big loss of her own, after all. *We hope this doesn’t happen, though. We like Bernard, and he’s been one of the absolute acting highlights of the series (and he got the best lines of The Stolen Earth: from the paintgun – “Want to swap?” – to the webcam – “She says it’s* naughty”).





yep


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 30, 2008)

Final said:


> Summary of theories for last episode:
> 
> http://denofgeek.com/television/77243/doctor_who_lots_of_theories_for_the_last_episode.html



Cool!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 30, 2008)

> Why did we not see Harriet Jones die? Was it us, or did the Dalek readjust its aim and shoot the screen? Is Harriet therefore working for the Daleks, and has managed to bring the Doctor and his assistants together?



Ooh I like this one


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

thats two places I've seen that speculation now, only the other passed it off as a genuine spoiler......independant sources saying the same thing. Hmmm.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 30, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Ooh I like this one





Me to!


----------



## Augie March (Jun 30, 2008)

I do like that theory. Seeing as we've seen nothing of Harriet Jones (unless I'm mistaken) since the Doctor brought down her government, it's plausible that she's pretty pissed off at him and this maybe a clever way of getting her revenge. Interesting...

It's also one of those things in a TV show where as if you don't actually see someone die onscreen, it's probably because they haven't actually died.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 30, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> thats two places I've seen that speculation now, only the other passed it off as a genuine spoiler......independant sources saying the same thing. Hmmm.



Yeah



Spoiler: cos



Thats why she has given the order not to use the osterhager Key under any circumstances. She knows what it does. The whole point of the SubNet was to get all the people who know wherer the Doctor is in one place, and to find the Doctor, so he can be killed by the Daleks. Also, you never saw her from the waist up, did you...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

Augie March said:


> I do like that theory. Seeing as we've seen nothing of Harriet Jones (unless I'm mistaken) since the Doctor brought down her government, it's plausible that she's pretty pissed off at him and this maybe a clever way of getting her revenge. Interesting...
> 
> It's also one of those things in a TV show where as if you don't actually see someone die onscreen, it's probably because they haven't actually died.


 

#I thought she was deaded by the Masters evil spiky ball things


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> It's just saying "I can't be bothered going through the plot holes, inconsistencies, and just plain bad writing.", makes you sound like Comicbook Guy.


Well, it's a thread for discussing Dr Who!  If I don't think an episode is well-written (and surely nobody thinks that was actually well written?) this is the place to say so, wouldn't you say?


----------



## PacificOcean (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Well, it's a thread for discussing Dr Who!  If I don't think an episode is well-written (and surely nobody thinks that was actually well written?) this is the place to say so, wouldn't you say?



Fair do's


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> (and surely nobody thinks that was actually well written?)



I thought it was up there with Proust meself


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

And don't get me started on Corrie these days...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

belboid said:


> I thought it was up there with Proust meself




That reminds me of that Fawlty Towers where he slags off Harold Robbins, then tries to retract.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jun 30, 2008)

David Tennant's just joined the Royal Shakespeare Company so don't think he'll be carrying on. Interesting episode.


----------



## FiFi (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Well, it's a thread for discussing Dr Who!  If I don't think an episode is well-written (and surely nobody thinks that was actually well written?) this is the place to say so, wouldn't you say?



I'd have to watch it again for plot holes and whatnot. 
I was just caught up in the whole story, not to mention getting completely over-excited when all the ex companions appeared. 

Maybe I should be more critically demanding and discriminating in my choice of art and media.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

goldenecitrone said:


> David Tennant's just joined the Royal Shakespeare Company so don't think he'll be carrying on. Interesting episode.



A tenner says he does...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 30, 2008)

Why is Sarah Janes computer Mr Smith still active? I thought she blew it up after it turned out to be evil.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> A tenner says he does...


Actually £100 k an episode says he does!  

I think he transforms in quite another way...


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why is Sarah Janes computer Mr Smith still active? I thought she blew it up after it turned out to be evil.



Yes, I wondered that. I'm sure Mr Smith was destroyed at the end of the Sarah Jane Adventures. Perhaps he was merely "de-eviled"...


----------



## Leafster (Jun 30, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Why is Sarah Janes computer Mr Smith still active? I thought she blew it up after it turned out to be evil.


I can't remember how they did it but they purged Mr Smith of all his evil intent.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

Wait! its all making sense. Harriet Harman was last seen in the episode with the master, when she appeared to meet her end. The seventh doctor died ,after collecting the masters remains from where? Skaro.

There's been a whisper that the red dalek is the master somehow.


the elements are all there but I'm not sure how they go together


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Wait! its all making sense. *Harriet Harman* was last seen in the episode with the master,



Yes, I've always thought Harriet Harman was a wrong 'un, too!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

Harriet Harman's half Dalek!  It all makes sense!


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 30, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> Yes, I wondered that. I'm sure Mr Smith was destroyed at the end of the Sarah Jane Adventures. Perhaps he was merely "de-eviled"...



Yeah i wondered that to. Goddamn plot holes eh?


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Wait! its all making sense. Harriet Harman was last seen in the episode with the master, when she appeared to meet her end. The seventh doctor died ,after collecting the masters remains from where? Skaro.
> 
> There's been a whisper that the red dalek is the master somehow.
> 
> ...



Those Master in series finale rumours refuse to go away but last I heard he was more likely to return in one of next year's specials instead. The finale would be insanely over-populated if he turns up!

Harriet Jones in league with the Daleks in some way wouldn't surprise me at all.


----------



## teecee (Jun 30, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Wait! its all making sense. Harriet Harman was last seen in the episode with the master, when she appeared to meet her end.



Not reading any of those spoilers int he spoiler code so far but this made me remember the mystery female hand at the end of that  episode picking up the masters ring


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 30, 2008)

Can I ask a probably really stupid q? What is this reset thing you keep talking about, and why is it a disappointing way to go? My long term Doctor Who memory is slightly shit


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

I reckon the regeneration stuff will be dealt with quickly at the start of the finale and that the really big revelations will come later on and will involve Donna. Who or what is she?  There's an outrageous plot twist coming I reckon...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

It's where the finale means that time is reset, the characters never died, the earth was never enslaved, that timeline is erased.

and it's dissapointing in that stig of the dump 'he woke up and it was all a dream' way imo.


----------



## Leafster (Jun 30, 2008)

Didn't the Master take over someone's body once? Maybe he's taken over Harriet Jones.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

Leafster said:


> Didn't the Master take over someone's body once? Maybe he's taken over Harriet Jones.


 

yup during the paul mcann special. 

I don't see him taking over harriet tho


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> and it's dissapointing in that stig of the dump 'he woke up and it was all a dream' way imo.



I think you can get away with that kind of ending once but New Who seems to make a habit of it. I'm hoping the finale of this series doesn't go the same way but suspect it will.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 30, 2008)

They should all just die and let the daleks takeover imo! (wont happen though..)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

possibly. But dissapointing though it is when overused, it's exactly what you'd do with a time machine. make it all better.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 30, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> It's where the finale means that time is reset, the characters never died, the earth was never enslaved, that timeline is erased.
> 
> and it's dissapointing in that stig of the dump 'he woke up and it was all a dream' way imo.



Ah, ok. Yeah, I agree, a waste of 2 episodes. Might have well not had them in the first place if that's all that happens.

My predictions:

• Rose will die
• Donna will ascend to be some kind of creature thing that is important, possibly having to sacrifice her family in some way in the process.
• Other stuff will happen 

I don't think the beetle is still on Donna's back. The pink-eyed woman clearly said you _had_ something on your back. It's like a residue from it that they can see, that marks her as so special.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> What is this reset thing you keep talking about, and why is it a disappointing way to go?


The Alice in Wonderland ending?

It's bad writing; a cop out: "I woke up and it was all a dream".  It's bad manners: a reader or viewer of fiction invests a certain amount in caring about characters and their conflicts and problems.  If the writer resorts to such cop outs, the audience is entitled to feel cheated.  Especially if it happens too often.

I haven't counted the number of times that Dr Who has resorted to this device, but the Turn Left episode was one, and the Master finale another, and the Magic Rose/ Bad Wolf episode another. (Although, to be fair, I think they got away with that one because of the way they set it up).  I was annoyed when Ian McEwen did it in Atonement, and I'd be annoyed if the Dr Who team did it again: if they want us to care/ to feel the characters are in real predicaments, then mending everything with a Bobby-Ewing-in-the-Shower-in-Dallas scene will not help people to feel they should invest anything in the next episode.  People will rightly say "pffft, not falling for that again".


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 30, 2008)

They nearly did it in Sunset Beach but it was all a double bluff.

/Sunset Beach nerd


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

Leafster said:


> Didn't the Master take over someone's body once? .


Oh, _taking over someone's body_.  A bit like _regeneration_, but not?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, _taking over someone's body_.  A bit like _regeneration_, but not?



The Master takes over The Doctor's body during this regeneration process. That'd be good


----------



## Leafster (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh, _taking over someone's body_.  A bit like _regeneration_, but not?


That's what I meant, yep.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> The Master takes over The Doctor's body during this regeneration process. That'd be good


That's my guess, yes.  And Leafster's, too by the look of things.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> The Alice in Wonderland ending?
> 
> It's bad writing; a cop out: "I woke up and it was all a dream".  It's bad manners: a reader or viewer of fiction invests a certain amount in caring about characters and their conflicts and problems.  If the writer resorts to such cop outs, the audience is entitled to feel cheated.  Especially if it happens too often.
> 
> I haven't counted the number of times that Dr Who has resorted to this device, but the Turn Left episode was one, and the Master finale another, and the Magic Rose/ Bad Wolf episode another. (Although, to be fair, I think they got away with that one because of the way they set it up).  I was annoyed when Ian McEwen did it in Atonement, and I'd be annoyed if the Dr Who team did it again: if they want us to care/ to feel the characters are in real predicaments, then mending everything with a Bobby-Ewing-in-the-Shower-in-Dallas scene will not help people to feel they should invest anything in the next episode.  People will rightly say "pffft, not falling for that again".



I actually agree with you for once!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 30, 2008)

So, if rumours of 2 Doctors are true, one is Tennant the Master, and one is Tennant the Doctor struggling to retain his dominance and bitch slap the Master?


----------



## Leafster (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> That's my guess, yes.  And Leafster's, too by the look of things.


I was actually still thinking about him transferring himself into Harriet's body but I like the idea of him taking over the Doctor too!


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> I haven't counted the number of times that Dr Who has resorted to this device, but the Turn Left episode was one,


mm, no it wasn't. Not really anyway. The _real_ timeline was re-asserted in Turn Left, rather than a new one being created to tidy up all the unpleasant stuff


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2008)

I think I may have to stop reading this thread till saturday now.  Too many giveaways, and I suspect some contributors may know too much


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

belboid said:


> mm, no it wasn't. Not really anyway. The _real_ timeline was re-asserted in Turn Left, rather than a new one being created to tidy up all the unpleasant stuff


But the problems weren't real and were undone.  That's the point.  That's why I didn't care. Even about that nice Italian guy.


----------



## rapattaque (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> The Alice in Wonderland ending?
> 
> It's bad writing; a cop out: "I woke up and it was all a dream".  It's bad manners: a reader or viewer of fiction invests a certain amount in caring about characters and their conflicts and problems.  If the writer resorts to such cop outs, the audience is entitled to feel cheated.  Especially if it happens too often.
> 
> I haven't counted the number of times that Dr Who has resorted to this device, but the Turn Left episode was one, and the Master finale another, and the Magic Rose/ Bad Wolf episode another. (Although, to be fair, I think they got away with that one because of the way they set it up).  I was annoyed when Ian McEwen did it in Atonement, and I'd be annoyed if the Dr Who team did it again: if they want us to care/ to feel the characters are in real predicaments, then mending everything with a Bobby-Ewing-in-the-Shower-in-Dallas scene will not help people to feel they should invest anything in the next episode.  People will rightly say "pffft, not falling for that again".



Spot on, it just feels like a waste of time. Like getting so hammered you forget what happened.

(How did Ian McEwen do it in Atonement? Have I missed somthing?!)


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

belboid said:


> I think I may have to stop reading this thread till saturday now.  Too many giveaways, and I suspect some contributors may know too much


~i know nothing!  (You don't say!)  I'm just guessing.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

There are loads of rumours flying around but no one REALLY knows anything with 100 per cent certainty. At this point there are no genuine spoilers.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> (How did Ian McEwen do it in Atonement? Have I missed somthing?!)


"Maybe it was a sad ending, maybe it was a happy ending".
Cop out.  Post modern my arse; it's Alice in Wonderland.  We've read the book this far, at least have the decency to see the logic through.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 30, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> Spot on, it just feels like a waste of time. Like getting so hammered you forget what happened.
> 
> (How did Ian McEwen do it in Atonement? Have I missed somthing?!)



If there is time travel in atonement then I may bother to watch it.

What we need is Abslom Daak to appear...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> If there is time travel in atonement then I may bother to watch it.


No time travel as such! 
I'm talking about the novel, mind.  I've no idea how the film ends.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> "Maybe it was a sad ending, maybe it was a happy ending".
> Cop out.  Post modern my arse; it's Alice in Wonderland.  We've read the book this far, at least have the decency to see the logic through.



I think a lot of Who's resets are to keep things as simple as possible. If all that Master stuff from the last series had really happened it would have needed to be referenced quite a bit in this series – it would have just got in the way. Beyond that I find resets almost as frustrating as you do.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 30, 2008)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Also didn't sladens robot machine thing turn out to be a baddie? Didn't she smash it up?


Nah, IIRC they managed to purge/reboot Mr. Smith.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> If all that Master stuff from the last series had really happened it would have needed to be referenced quite a bit in this series – it would have just got in the way.


Well, quite.  But in that case don't write that story; write another.

As I've said loads of times, they are capable of some first rate family entertainment.  Which is why it's disappointing when they put out stuff that just comes across as slapped together.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 30, 2008)

belboid said:


> I thought it was up there with Proust meself



Shouldn't that be "down there with..."?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> Nah, IIRC they managed to purge/reboot Mr. Smith.



And why not; they do that to everything else!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> Shouldn't that be "down there with..."?


Wey hey!  Proust gags on a Dr Who thread!


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> The Alice in Wonderland ending?
> 
> It's bad writing; a cop out: "I woke up and it was all a dream".  It's bad manners: a reader or viewer of fiction invests a certain amount in caring about characters and their conflicts and problems.  If the writer resorts to such cop outs, the audience is entitled to feel cheated.  Especially if it happens too often.
> 
> I haven't counted the number of times that Dr Who has resorted to this device, but the Turn Left episode was one, and the Master finale another, and the Magic Rose/ Bad Wolf episode another. (Although, to be fair, I think they got away with that one because of the way they set it up).  I was annoyed when Ian McEwen did it in Atonement, and I'd be annoyed if the Dr Who team did it again: if they want us to care/ to feel the characters are in real predicaments, then mending everything with a Bobby-Ewing-in-the-Shower-in-Dallas scene will not help people to feel they should invest anything in the next episode.  People will rightly say "pffft, not falling for that again".



My brother has just sent me an e-mail with much the same views.

You are not him are you 

If so are you coming to Bruges or not!!


----------



## rapattaque (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> No time travel as such!
> I'm talking about the novel, mind.  I've no idea how the film ends.



There isn't in the book, but in the film a Lancaster flies over James Macavoy during what is supposed to be the 1930's, but the Lancaster didn't actually see active service till 1942.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 30, 2008)

goldenecitrone said:


> David Tennant's just joined the Royal Shakespeare Company so don't think he'll be carrying on. Interesting episode.


"Re-joined", I think, as he's been part of it before, but then again, he could (like Patrick Stewart managed with Star Trek TNG) still fit in a play run with making Dr Who.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 30, 2008)

Leafster said:


> I can't remember how they did it but they purged Mr Smith of all his evil intent.



This.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> My brother has just sent me an e-mail with much the same views.
> 
> You are not him are you
> 
> If so are you coming to Bruges or not!!


I'm not your brother, but I am up for Bruges if the offer still stands!


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 30, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> They should all just die and let the daleks takeover imo! (wont happen though..)


I now have a real and pressing need for a Metal remix of the Dr Who tune and a dalek spinning through the time travely thing ala the tardis. A Dalek spinoff, now THAT would be cool.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 30, 2008)

So there is a chance that he'll regenerate as a new actor and all these specials Tennant has filmed will be flashbacks...

(hopes its Stringer Bell)


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 30, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> I now have a real and pressing need for a Metal remix of the Dr Who tune and a dalek spinning through the time travely thing ala the tardis. A Dalek spinoff, now THAT would be cool.



i) check the KLF for Doctor Who music, them and Orbital (as you may know)
ii) an Absolom Daak Dalek spin off would be cool... the comic was pretty Violent and there are RTD nods to it according to the wiki...


----------



## rapattaque (Jun 30, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> i) check the KLF for Doctor Who music, them and Orbital (as you may know)
> ii) an Absolom Daak Dalek spin off would be cool... the comic was pretty Violent and there are RTD nods to it according to the wiki...



Dr in the Tardis!


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jun 30, 2008)




----------



## Iguana (Jun 30, 2008)

I agree that re-sets suck.  With the exception of the Omega 13 in Galaxy Quest.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> So there is a chance that he'll regenerate as a new actor and all these specials Tennant has filmed will be flashbacks...
> 
> (hopes its Stringer Bell)



William Hill have Robert Carlyle as 2/1 favourite to be the next Doctor. I think he'd be a great choice.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

belboid said:


> I think I may have to stop reading this thread till saturday now. Too many giveaways, and I suspect some contributors may know too much


----------



## Augie March (Jun 30, 2008)

Imdb does show Penelope Wilton as appearing in the final episode as Harriet Jones.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> William Hill have Robert Carlyle as 2/1 favourite to be the next Doctor. I think he'd be a great choice.


Me, too.  But if the press reports are true, Tennant has signed up for another series after next year's specials. For the kind of money he'd be mad to knock back.


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

William Hill aren't exactly renowned for being on the money with their Who betting anyway. Here are the odds they published back before Christopher Eccleston was named as the new Doctor in 2004 (some of these names make me shudder and not in a good way)... 

William Hill prices for the next Doctor Who: 8-1 Alan Davies, 14-1 Richard E Grant, 16-1 Sean Pertwee, Patrick Stewart, 20-1 James Nesbitt, Jonathon Price, 25-1 Hugh Grant, Nicholas Lyndhurst, Ross Kemp, Alan Rickman, Sean Bean, Ray Winston, Stephen Fry, Mark Strong, Timothy Spall, 33-1 Tim Roth, Linus Roche, Leslie Grantham, Art Malik, Lenny Henry, Andrew Lincoln, 40-1 Jimmy Nail, 50-1 Ian McKellen, 66-1 Michael Caine, 100-1 Don Cheadle,


----------



## Augie March (Jun 30, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> William Hill prices for the next Doctor Who: 8-1 Alan Davies, 14-1 Richard E Grant, 16-1 Sean Pertwee, Patrick Stewart, 20-1 James Nesbitt, Jonathon Price, 25-1 Hugh Grant, Nicholas Lyndhurst, Ross Kemp, Alan Rickman, Sean Bean, Ray Winston, Stephen Fry, Mark Strong, Timothy Spall, 33-1 Tim Roth, Linus Roche, Leslie Grantham, Art Malik, Lenny Henry, Andrew Lincoln, 40-1 Jimmy Nail, 50-1 Ian McKellen, 66-1 Michael Caine, 100-1 Don Cheadle,



I'm surprised Nick Berry wasn't mentioned.


----------



## Augie March (Jun 30, 2008)

Or Michael French for that matter. He has good experience with Saturday night sci-fi shows...


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 30, 2008)

Leafster said:


> I can't remember how they did it but they purged Mr Smith of all his evil intent.



I thought they did it by blowing him up.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

Augie March said:


> I'm surprised Nick Berry wasn't mentioned.


Can you imagine the horror of most of those suggestions?  (Most; I'm intrigued by the Timothy Spall idea, tbh  )


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

didn't they suggest James fucking Nesbitt the other day *shudders*


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> "Re-joined", I think, as he's been part of it before, but then again, he could (like Patrick Stewart managed with Star Trek TNG) still fit in a play run with making Dr Who.



& Stewart is starring with Tennant in Hamlet.

According to todays Mirror, Tennant did the last two episodes (before saturdays) in just one day, so he could probably knock off a whole series in the day-time, whilst doing Hamlet at night.


----------



## Final (Jun 30, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> William Hill prices for the next Doctor Who: 8-1 Alan Davies,  16-1 Sean Pertwee,  20-1 James Nesbitt, Jonathon Price, 25-1 Hugh Grant, Nicholas Lyndhurst, Ross Kemp, Mark Strong, Timothy Spall, 33-1  Linus Roche, Leslie Grantham, Art Malik, Lenny Henry, Andrew Lincoln, 40-1 Jimmy Nail,  100-1 Don Cheadle,











Some of the others would be acceptable.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jun 30, 2008)




----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

Ooh.  Good one.  Yes!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

In fact Ken Grumpy and David Ten Inch were both in Taking Over the Asylum.  (Which was the first thing I saw Ten Inch in; he was very good).  So that'd be quite nice.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 30, 2008)

Augie March said:


> Imdb does show Penelope Wilton as appearing in the final episode as Harriet Jones.



Aha! She be evils 



DotCommunist said:


> didn't they suggest James fucking Nesbitt the other day *shudders*



*joins with shuddering*

My naive workmate said she'd like to see Nesbit play him. I had to go through, point by point, why this would be a Bad Fucking Idea.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Harriet Harman's half Dalek!  It all makes sense!



Pah, Jacqui Smith's _all_ dalek


----------



## Iguana (Jun 30, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> Aha! She be evils



Not necessarily, imdb also list Michael Brandon as General Sanchez in next week's ep, so the daleks are obviously rounding some people up.  (That's Martha's superior officer who was last seen facing the daleks as she telported away. Or Dempsey from Dempsey & Makepeace.)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 30, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> There are loads of rumours flying around but no one REALLY knows anything with 100 per cent certainty. At this point there are no genuine spoilers.



This is why I'm still reading this thread, the more conflicting scenarios I hear about the less sure I am of what will actually happen 

...and the more impressed I'll be if the writers come up with something nobody has thought of


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 30, 2008)

Hang on, if Harriet is evil, then why did she have a go at the Daleks just before they "shot" her?


----------



## poster342002 (Jun 30, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> ...and the more impressed I'll be if the writers come up with something nobody has thought of



I'll be more impressed if the story ends _without_ a great big silly scriptal reset switch being thrown.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 30, 2008)

ok - no one has mentioned that Dalek Caan/Khan's ramblings prophecied that the Doctor's "most loyal" comapnion would die - which has to be rose, no?

tennant can do a season at the RSC alongside filming four specials.  Not alongside a whole series, though - i'd not have thought so, anyway.

donna noble.  noble lady.  Timelady???

i'm sure there's all kinds of species reasons why not, but maybe it's just her soul / spirit that is given up to enable the creation of a timelady?


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> ok - no one has mentioned that Dalek Caan/Khan's ramblings prophecied that the Doctor's "most loyal" comapnion would die - which has to be rose, no?



The Tardis.


----------



## Balbi (Jun 30, 2008)

It's K-9 you divvy's


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 30, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> The Tardis.



the tardiis can't die!


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> the tardiis can't die!



Don't shoot the messenger!  I'm only speculating but it would make a certain sort of sense if we really are talking about the Doctor's "most loyal companion".


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2008)

but we know the Tardis survives, cos River Thingy mentioned it in the Library


----------



## andy2002 (Jun 30, 2008)

belboid said:


> but we know the Tardis survives, cos River Thingy mentioned it in the Library



Maybe she was talking about a different Tardis.


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2008)

No, she wasn't.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 30, 2008)

Augie March said:


> All the Doctor footage was from the last episode, probably because they don't want to spoil whatever happens to him after his 'death'.



Then why make such a ....Fair enough. It also says episode 12 above it, which doesn't help matters!. And they never showed it in SCOTLAND GASP!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 30, 2008)

andy2002 said:


> Don't shoot the messenger!  I'm only speculating but it would make a certain sort of sense if we really are talking about the Doctor's "most loyal companion".



Ha. Kind of fucks up the rest of the show. They could do it twenty four style, the doctor running everywhere, always too late and everyone always dies. A comment on the futility of life and everything. He eventually get's locked in the asylum for having grandiose delusions.

My friend bought me a sonic screwdriver today. *operates sonic screwdriver, tries to find hidden web pages*


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 30, 2008)

belboid said:


> No, she wasn't.



She was n'all. The RED one.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> ok - no one has mentioned that Dalek Caan/Khan's ramblings prophecied that the Doctor's "most loyal" comapnion would die - which has to be rose, no?


It has to be Donna, yes.  Which is why they're all so sorry when they find out who she is:  Oh, Donna _Noble_.  O.  M.  G!  <pitying look>

_And_ they've been building up how important she is to the Doctor's life.


----------



## Iguana (Jun 30, 2008)

spanglechick said:


> donna noble.  noble lady.  Timelady???
> 
> i'm sure there's all kinds of species reasons why not, but maybe it's just her soul / spirit that is given up to enable the creation of a timelady?



Perhaps Donna's mother is actually Jenny.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

It won't be the Tardis. Otherwise the doc would have to somehow miraculously find another type 40 with broken chameleon circuits. Which would be a bit difficult seeing as Gaillifrey is a smoking ruin.


----------



## Leafster (Jun 30, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> It won't be the Tardis. Otherwise the doc would have to somehow miraculously find another type 40 with broken chameleon circuits. Which would be a bit difficult seeing as Gaillifrey is a smoking ruin.


He could always try eBay.


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jun 30, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> It won't be the Tardis. Otherwise the doc would have to somehow miraculously find another type 40 with broken chameleon circuits. Which would be a bit difficult seeing as Gaillifrey is a smoking ruin.


Meh, if you can snatch Davros from the timewar then nabbing a spare tardis can't be too hard.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 30, 2008)

Davros is actually the Doctors father and Donna is actually a man and Bernard Cribbins is Keyser Soze.


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 30, 2008)

Marius said:


> Davros is actually the Doctors father and Donna is actually a man and Bernard Cribbins is Keyser Soze.



And Dalek Caan is Russell T Davies in a rubber mask.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

just as an aside,, can we safely class anyone who talks about 'russel t davies gay agenda' as a fucking idiot?

I'v come across it twice now.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

Bob_the_lost said:


> Meh, if you can snatch Davros from the timewar then nabbing a spare tardis can't be too hard.


 

that drove Dalek Khan/Caan insane. An insane Doctor might be fun, like the first doc, only not as sane as that one


----------



## Wilf (Jun 30, 2008)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I must be alone in not liking that one too much. Loathe RTD's spin-offs and don't want them infesting proper _Who_. *The Shadow Proclamation was disappointing *and Billie Piper wiv enormous weapon isn't quite as iconic as the direction seemed to hope.



Aye, same thing when any clever loner in a film/book comes across the people who are officially supposed to be sorting things out.  They end up being pompous and a bit rubbish.  Kind of Holmes v Scotland Yard and Inspector Lestrade.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 30, 2008)

Marius said:


> Bernard Cribbins is Keyser Soze.





Could be - Keyser hasnt posted for a while....


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2008)

just watched it again, even better second time round.  couldn't give a shit if they end up making it so the whole thing never happened (apart from donna/rose/jack/tardis dying), it'll still be class in a glass


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 30, 2008)

I'm hoping for a massive rumble featuring the Judoon, the humans, the Pyroviles, the Adipose (maybe the grownup ones look less stupid), the Absorbaloffs and whatever the fuck else they can throw in the mix. And then the Daleks can own the lot of them.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> It has to be Donna, yes.  Which is why they're all so sorry when they find out who she is:  Oh, Donna _Noble_.  O.  M.  G!  <pitying look>
> 
> _And_ they've been building up how important she is to the Doctor's life.



She must die in order to save him, making her the most loyal. Donna NOBLE.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

diamarzipan said:


> She must die in order to save him, making her the most loyal. Donna NOBLE.


Or...maybe that's what they _want_ us to think.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Or...maybe that's what they _want_ us to think.



Hmmmm *narrows eyes*. It is a bit obvious mind you. Maybe she just loses an eye.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 30, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> just as an aside,, can we safely class anyone who talks about 'russel t davies gay agenda' as a fucking idiot?
> 
> I'v come across it twice now.



Yes, yes we can. Gay and bisexual characters occasionally pop up in Doctor Who but then, shock horror, they do in real life as well! 

As for Russel T Davies' possible pseudo-christian agenda, the jury remains out. Any christ-like poses from Tennant in the final episode will be damning evidence indeed...


----------



## mrsfran (Jun 30, 2008)

I seem to have missed something - how or why do we know that Donna is really important?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

missfran said:


> I seem to have missed something - how or why do we know that Donna is really important?


Because in every episode someone or other says "Donna, you're really important".


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Because in every episode someone or other says "Donna, you're really important".



Particularly the one before last, where those UNIT folks were explaining to her how frightfully important she is and how she carries such frightful levels importance about her and how it is so frightfully important that she does so. 

Doctor Who doesn't go in for huge amounts of subtle, but then I'd probably miss half of what was going on if they did so that's OK


----------



## Stigmata (Jun 30, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> As for Russel T Davies' possible pseudo-christian agenda, the jury remains out. Any christ-like poses from Tennant in the final episode will be damning evidence indeed...



Except for the cheeky Dickie Dawkins cameo in that last episode, telling everybody the bleedin' obvious and to put their trust in detached observation etc. I don't even like Dawkins but fair play, that was funny.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Particularly the one before last


The beetle one?  Even after everything was fixed, the Doctor still went on at great length about how Donna was entwined in his life like no other companion.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> As for Russel T Davies' possible pseudo-christian agenda, the jury remains out.


He's an atheist.  The Doctor-as-a-lonely-god theme isn't a CS Lewis allegory.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

well I think it's pretty obvious that there isn't a psuedo-christian agenda. As has been pointed out, the Doctor is portrayed as a hero. Doctor Who isn't subtle, and needs the hero to be messiah like for the under 11's to get them rooting for him. Just as the monsters have to be ridiculously evil/scary.

It's hardly a New Who phenomena. I seem to recall that the doctor looked like the uber saviour of the world in almost every damn season since day one.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 30, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> well I think it's pretty obvious that there isn't a psuedo-christian agenda. As has been pointed out, the Doctor is portrayed as a hero. Doctor Who isn't subtle, and needs the hero to be messiah like for the under 11's to get them rooting for him. Just as the monsters have to be ridiculously evil/scary.
> 
> It's hardly a New Who phenomena. I seem to recall that the doctor looked like the uber saviour of the world in almost every damn season since day one.



You're probably right.

*stops over-analysing kids TV once and for all*


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

It's fun to do over analysis of Who to people in real life. You can almost set your watch by the exact moment of eyes-glazed interest lost expression of the victim


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

Oh dear.  You really should re-read that and ponder it deeply.


----------



## janeb (Jun 30, 2008)

Just watched it again having read a few speculation threads elsewhere as well as here - things that leapt out at me;

Crucible - referred to twice by the Daleks
Oster Hagen Key - Oster Hagen - earths gone?
Threefold man
Mr Copper Foundation - link to Voyage of the Dammed

But, more than anything, I loved Donna's generosity over Rose with the Dr, the look on her face when she sees Rose over the Dr's shoulder is the most lovely thing - the look of a best mate who sees something that they know will please their mate more than anything - no jealousy (as there would be if it Donna had been Martha), just joyful for him.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 30, 2008)

I think i have a spoiler here...

The Dr is going to get a new job working for...

Nope not unit...

Nor Torchwood..

Dixons.

I had a email confirmation from Dixon's today:



> These items will be delivered: 28/06/2008 Saturday, between 8am and 12 noon Your courier will be Business Post



Not sure how they are going to frigging manage that without the Tardis. But they better bloody had seeing as I paid an extra £10 to make sure it got delivered when i was in last weekend.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Oh dear. You really should re-read that and ponder it deeply.


 
Needs no pondering. All it means is that I am a right geek. A fact that I had to admit when I found myself at a Sci Fi convention for the third time


----------



## danny la rouge (Jun 30, 2008)

janeb said:


> Oster Hagen Key - Oster Hagen - earths gone?


Now there's a thing.  If we're being nerdy (and why the hell not?), oster is Anglo Saxon for _to rise_...

Hagen kills the hero Siegfried in Wagner's _Ring_.

Hmmm...


----------



## CNT36 (Jun 30, 2008)

janeb said:


> Just watched it again having read a few speculation threads elsewhere as well as here - things that leapt out at me;
> 
> Crucible - referred to twice by the Daleks
> Oster Hagen Key - Oster Hagen - earths gone?
> ...



The crucible may be related to the cruciform that was seized by a dalek emperor during the time war as mentioned by the master in the sound of drums. The sound of drums did no one else notice that seen with Donna. Different beat though. Maybe she will just be John Smith/Yana dead.


----------



## janeb (Jun 30, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> Now there's a thing.  If we're being nerdy (and why the hell not?), oster is Anglo Saxon for _to rise_...
> 
> Hagen kills the hero Siegfried in Wagner's _Ring_.
> 
> Hmmm...



* head explodes *


----------



## pk (Jul 1, 2008)

Bored of David Tennant now though.

Let's have another Doctor soon....







(yeah, but think how awesome it would be!)


----------



## elevendayempire (Jul 1, 2008)

janeb said:


> Mr Copper Foundation - link to Voyage of the Dammed


It was originally meant to be Mr Copper in the episode instead of Harriet Jones, but they couldn't get the actor. IIRC.


----------



## Final (Jul 1, 2008)

I think I've missed something obvious:

When Rose needs to get from the Noble's place (where she's watching the subnet on the laptop) to the TARDIS, she speaks into a mic and requests a teleport... then she gets teleported to the TARDIS?

If so, who is she talking to, and who teleports her? 

Have I gone wrong somewhere?

/confused


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 1, 2008)

pk said:


> Bored of David Tennant now though.
> 
> Let's have another Doctor soon....
> 
> ...



Perfect!!!!!


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 1, 2008)

Final said:


> I think I've missed something obvious:
> 
> When Rose needs to get from the Noble's place (where she's watching the subnet on the laptop) to the TARDIS, she speaks into a mic and requests a teleport... then she gets teleported to the TARDIS?
> 
> ...



She spoke to that thing on her wrist didn't she?

As she is now from another dimension she must have new technology that we don't have.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 1, 2008)

Final said:


> I think I've missed something obvious:
> 
> When Rose needs to get from the Noble's place (where she's watching the subnet on the laptop) to the TARDIS, she speaks into a mic and requests a teleport... then she gets teleported to the TARDIS?
> 
> ...



Um... a more up to date version of the one Martha was using(she thunk her way to her maams house did she not?)


----------



## Helen Back (Jul 1, 2008)

Didn't someone say to Donna "There's something on your back!" meaning she's still in a parallel world so a nice big reset at the end. Yawn.


----------



## belboid (Jul 1, 2008)

Final said:


> If so, who is she talking to, and who teleports her?




it's the people she was with who transported Donna in Turn Left.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 1, 2008)

Helen Back said:


> Didn't someone say to Donna "There's something on your back!" meaning she's still in a parallel world so a nice big reset at the end. Yawn.



Nope she said there 'was'. And uh... that's the second forum i've had this convo on.... oh dear lord!


----------



## belboid (Jul 1, 2008)

Helen Back said:


> Didn't someone say to Donna "There's something on your back!" meaning she's still in a parallel world so a nice big reset at the end. Yawn.



No.  The woman said 'there _was_ something on your back.'

Tho I suspect we might well still be in the same parallel world


----------



## Final (Jul 1, 2008)

And Jack can teleport again with his time-agent wrist-device...

If it's now working again then can Jack also time travel using it?


----------



## Final (Jul 1, 2008)

belboid said:


> Tho I suspect we might well still be in the same parallel world



Parallel world where Davros didn't die and the timewar isn't timelocked...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2008)

Things that have been discussed on this thread too many times: Tennant is staying, he just is


And the Red Eye woman from the Shadow Proclaimations said 'there WAS something on your back' to Donna

None of the above rule out another stig of the dump stylie reset. That is all.


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 1, 2008)

Spoiler: clicky



Leaked photos, video clips etc seem to be increasingly pointing toward the 'doctor to be cleft in twain' during regeneration theory. Whether one of them will be evil or not remains to be seen. Remember, Tennant IS playing the doc in the xmas spesh, and there are hundreds of photies online to prove it.



Also looks as though Martha and Mickey will be replacing Tosh and Owen on Torchwood. Here's hoping for some Mickey on Ianto action


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 1, 2008)

tennant spotted on set wearing two different suits ennit


----------



## rapattaque (Jul 1, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> tennant spotted on set wearing two different suits ennit



He's on £100000 an episode, he can afford to.


----------



## Vash (Jul 1, 2008)

rapattaque said:


> He's on £100000 an episode, he can afford to.



18 million Woss gets paid more than Tennant shocker.


----------



## liampreston (Jul 1, 2008)

Please, please, please, don't be a reset ending!


----------



## Flashman (Jul 2, 2008)

Darleks are more fooked than ever with two Doctor's to out-thinky.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 2, 2008)

liampreston said:


> Please, please, please, don't be a reset ending!



It kind of has to be- I don't want them to stop doing stories in a recognisable modern world. It'd be annoying if the setting got as convoluted and weighed down with backstory as it does in superhero comics.


----------



## 8den (Jul 2, 2008)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Spoiler: clicky
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Adulthood posters have it down as "a film by Noel Clarke", you don't go from directing feature films to being John Barrymore's bitch.


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

you might well do if you want the money to make another feature. just look at wotsisname turning up in that crappy video game movie with kylie (that's a very useful comparison, isn't it?)


----------



## Bloody_ICE (Jul 2, 2008)

Who is the new Dr who?


----------



## Augie March (Jul 2, 2008)

Bloody_ICE said:


> Who is the new Dr who?


----------



## Bloody_ICE (Jul 2, 2008)

who in the hell is that? Still he has the dress sense of a doctor.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 2, 2008)

new clip for sats episodes ( DOES INCLUDE SPOLIERS!!!!!!!!!!                      )


----------



## Augie March (Jul 2, 2008)

Bloody_ICE said:


> who in the hell is that? Still he has the dress sense of a doctor.



Craig Maclachan. Famous for being in Neighbours and having a 'music' career in the early 90s.

William Hill probably have him as 9-1 on or something.


----------



## Augie March (Jul 2, 2008)

ruffneck23 said:


> new clip for sats episodes ( DOES INCLUDE SPOLIERS!!!!!!!!!!                      )




Gah. No youtube at work. 

What are the spoilers then?


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

don't you dare fucking tell us!

some of us do have some patience ya know!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2008)

nothing earth shattering really.

my crackpot theories and those of others have not been confirmed/denied by this short clip.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 2, 2008)

no i wont tell but they arent huge either , il leave it at that


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

they rarely do.  I still don't wanna know tho,  I was damned glad that there wasn't any trailer at the end of the last episode, bloody things always show far more than I want to see.  I'm going to watch it anyway, I don't need no bloody trailer that gives away far too much


----------



## poster342002 (Jul 2, 2008)

liampreston said:


> Please, please, please, don't be a reset ending!



Fat chance. We'll get the full 'reset' works replete with cod-christian imagiary courtesy of RT "atheist" D. It'll probably involve Davros being "cast back into the darkness" while the Doctor "rises from the dead" again or something.


----------



## poster342002 (Jul 2, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> It kind of has to be- I don't want them to stop doing stories in a recognisable modern world. It'd be annoying if the setting got as convoluted and weighed down with backstory as it does in superhero comics.



The way to avoid this is for them to avoid all these massive, highly-visible alien invasions that then have to be resetted out of existance in a thoroughly repetitive and unconvincing manner. They might _look_ impressive, but the contrived, _deus-ex-machina _plot-devices that they have to use magic them away at the end most certainly aren't.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 2, 2008)

[spoiler = Toys 'r' Us display] I was in Toys 'r' Us today and they had a huge cardboard Doctor Who display with David Tennant and a new doctor standing next to each other (he must be the new doctor because he had a screwdriver thing).

Talk about spolier, and you couldn't miss it as the display as it was about 20ft high. [/spoiler]


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> spoiler removal service.




you lack the geek skills to understand why your logic is flawed here


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 2, 2008)

EDIT: Cut out spoiler above me.
SPOILER!


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 2, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> you lack the geek skills to understand why your logic is flawed here



Explain please?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> you lack the geek skills to understand why your logic is flawed here



I lack geek skills. Pls explain it to me.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 2, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> I was in Toys 'r' Us today and they had a huge cardboard Doctor Who display with David Tennant and a new doctor standing next to each other (he must be the new doctor because he had a screwdriver thing).
> 
> Talk about spolier, and you couldn't miss it as the display as it was about 20ft high.





ummm spoiler code please


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> Explain please?





Spoiler: explanation of something from a spoiler above



A sonic screwdriver does not a Doctor make. theres been many instances of other Time Lords/Ladies  carrying sonic screwdrivers.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 2, 2008)

ruffneck23 said:


> ummm spoiler code please



I didn't say who it was and according to Dot Communist I am wrong anyway.

How do you spolier tags?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 2, 2008)

hey im not that worried , but im sure a few pees might be


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2008)

. Dp


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jul 2, 2008)

there is a sticky in the book/etc forum page


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> you lack the geek skills to understand why your logic is flawed here





PacificOcean said:


> I didn't say who it was and according to Dot Communist I am wrong anyway.
> 
> How do you spolier tags?




like this (take out any spaces inside the square brackets, you MUST have the = thing in there or it won't work)

[ spoiler = mysterious other doctor ] INSERT SPOILER HERE [ / spoiler ]


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 2, 2008)

Hey - you can dress your child up like David Tennant. Cool!

http://www.toysrus.co.uk/Product.as...ZOfBrands/TruFindUsingDrWho/310794?ref=Search


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 2, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Hey - you can dress your child up like David Tennant. Cool!
> 
> http://www.toysrus.co.uk/Product.as...ZOfBrands/TruFindUsingDrWho/310794?ref=Search



I liked this breath of positive energy into the conversation.


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 2, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> I was in Toys 'r' Us today and they had a huge cardboard Doctor Who display with David Tennant and a new doctor standing next to each other (he must be the new doctor because he had a screwdriver thing).
> 
> Talk about spolier, and you couldn't miss it as the display as it was about 20ft high.



didn't look a bit like this did he?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 2, 2008)

Bloody_ICE said:


> Who is the new Dr who?


There is no new Doctor; Tennant will be back for at least the specials scheduled for next year, and, if reports are to be believed, for a subsequent series.

As for the regeneration at the end of last series, I think the _Saxon_ allusions of Oster Hagen are a clue...

(Oster is Anglo Saxon for _to rise_; the root of Easter.  Hagen is the  villain of Germanic folk-legend who kills the hero in Wagner's _Ring_).


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 2, 2008)

fen_boy said:


> didn't look a bit like this did he?



Yes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2008)

awoooga


Spoiler: no wai



the master? it is as I predicted!


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 2, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> Yes.



Don't let the geeks get you down. Buy yourself a plastic sonic screwdriver and psychic paper and run about the house going 'aaaah! it's deadlocked!'


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 2, 2008)

:d


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2008)

OK, so I get the Anglo _Saxon_ thing, with Rise being a clue, but I don't understand the Ring thing, from Wagner. Is it purely a reference to the baddie? In that, the big baddie is the Master, or is it more subtle than that?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 2, 2008)

Vintage Paw said:


> OK, so I get the Anglo _Saxon_ thing, with Rise being a clue, but I don't understand the Ring thing, from Wagner. Is it purely a reference to the baddie? In that, the big baddie is the Master, or is it more subtle than that?


Specifically a baddie who slays the hero.


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

Character analysis of Hagen (from some operatic site) - The half brother of Gunther and Gutrune. He is the son of Alberich. In an effort to gain control of the ring, he convinces his siblings to use a magic potion to marry Brünnhilde and Siegfried themselves. They each get spouses; he gets complete world domination. It was Hagen who convinced Gunther to help him murder Siegfried. Hagen kills Gunther in a quarrel over the ring after Siegfried is murdered.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 2, 2008)

hmmm, the plot thickens. Just who was that female hand and what was the significance of the ring she took from the masters hand?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 2, 2008)

Scrap this post. I'm all doctored oot.


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

must have been Gutrune


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 2, 2008)

*head explodes*


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 2, 2008)

The Ring Thing:


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 2, 2008)

danny la rouge said:


> The Ring Thing:



that was his girlfriend at the time the cheire blair to his tony... (the masters) of course assuming that tony(master) was still tony(master) at that point and he hadn't transfered his self to the ring. like the dotors watch.  or that in his trip back to the time war caan didn't meet up with the master which lead him to run to the end of time and take on human form.  

it was never fully explained why the master was sent their other than he had to hide. 

would wrap up the ending by starting at the begining somewhat.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 2, 2008)

Yeah, but the masters wife was the one who killed him after the master starting beating her up following his taking over of the world!


----------



## belboid (Jul 2, 2008)

or _did she_???


----------



## Bob_the_lost (Jul 2, 2008)

belboid said:


> or _did she_???


Probably just stood there bitching about how she hadn't meant to and how it was the doctors fault really. I've watched soap operas, i know how this works.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 3, 2008)

warning- MASSIVE SPOILARAGE

although it doesn't appear to mention the regeneration or owt, trheres lots of plausable here. I think it might be semi-accurate




Spoiler: massive



Here we go. *Again, warning, don't complain to me if you read this and it ruins it for you.*

Former PM Harriet Jones, is consumed with rage that the Doctor was responsible for her getting deposed, when she blew the Sycorax from the sky.

Her rage is only fueled, when she learns that the Doctor took no such action against Harold Saxon, who, exactly one year later; gave the order to blow the Racnos from the sky.

Her own investigations unerath the true nature of Harold Saxon, (ie: that he is the Time Lord known as 'The Master') and beleives that the Doctor, allowed him to destroy the Racnos unpunished, was some sort of special TimeLord dispensation.

Having stowed-away on the Valiant, (during the events of 'Last Of The Time Lords'), she has witnessed the entire 'year that never was', and now knows the power that the TimeLords posesses. She lusts for this power, for herself.

She also witnesses the Master reminissing with the Doctor, about the time the Doctor 'Sealed the Medussa Cascade', before the Master finally dies.

She steals the Masters ring from his funeral pire, and is soon overwhelmed by the sound of drums herself. But unlike the derranged Master; Harriet Jones knows immediately what the sound represents - and from where it originates.

An army of unimaginable size exists, beating down the walls between realities, tearing open the fabric of the universe in an attempting to escape thier prison, buried as they have been beneath the Medusa Cascade, imprisoned since the closing moments of the time war; sealed outside of time and space, as even the time lords were aware of it.

They have had countless eons to act, to swell thier numbers into a vast unstoppable force, lead, by Davros - who is using the ring, and Harriet as his weapon outside of the cascade to actualise thier escape.

In Roses' alternate reality, the universe is splintering at a much faster rate. As the head of Torchwood London, she is well aware of exactly what is happening - but has no idea how to stop it. So she, along with her family, friends and a new boyfreind, set about desperately trying to reach the Doctor, through the fractures opening between in realities.

The Doctor & Donna, in the meanwhile have visited a Library, millions of years in the future which documents the events of all past generations lives. Though the Doctor warns her against it, curiosity gets the better of her, and she reads her own life story - which according to the volume, ends when she is / was killed by the Racnos.

She doesn't know what to make of it, as obviously, she didn't die. She went to Egypt and later hooked up with the Doctor. She waits her moment, and then goes to ask the Doctor what it means - just as he completely vanishes in front of her eyes, tron from Reality.

Donna is left utterly alone onboard the Tardis, as it hurtles out-of-control through time and space. She is petrified and doesn't know what to do.

When suddenly, an (un)familiar face appears on screen.

It's Rose. She has finally managed to get a signal through a fracture in reality, but she's too late, as it is after the Doctor has completely vanished.

Donna & Rose stuggle desperately to use the Tardis, to draw the Doctor back on board, using Roses' knowledge from having 'been' the embodiment of the Tardis, and Donna's sketchy 'driving lessons'. Throughout, they are thwarted in thier attempts by different realities colliding and splintering around them. We see a variety of realities play out, including what would have happened to them both, had neither met the Doctor.

Eventually, they manage to get the Doctor back to the Tardis. He had been sucked beneath the Medusa Cascade, by Davros and his new allie, Harriet Jones, who has orchestrated he and his Armys' (the Children Of Time) escape. She has taken her place at Davros' side, partially converted into a Red Dalek, so that they can rule over all realities and create an evil empire, everlasting.

At this point, realities are becoming indistinguishable. Thwarted enemies of old, who have conquored and won in alternate realities, are back in our reality. So too are the Tylers & Mickey.

At this point, Captain Jack & Sarah-Jane turn up, desperate to stop the hell on Earth that is being unleashed.

But Harriet & Davros have one more Ace up thier sleeve. Donna - who has rushed to save Wilf and Sylvia.

Both however are dead at the hands (?) of Daleks when she arrives at her house.

In flashback, we see that During her entrapment by the Racnos, Donna was bitten by a Metebelis spider, which fuses itself to its' Victims spines and becomes invisible, controling the actions of those it posesses. With no Empress to give it's life direction, the spider has simply lain inactive, until the moment an Alternative worlds' Racnos Empress emerged into this reality.

The Racnos Empress is quickly swayed to join forces with Davros & Harriet, in order to double-cross the Doctor from the inside - and rule alongside them.

The Doctor knows that the only means of defeating the fate that awaits them; every universe colliding, and finally imploding, killing everyone from every reality - means reaching the Medusa Cascade.

When the others press him as to what they must do once they reach it, he is evasive - simply insisting that the important thing is that they get there.

Donna, under Racnos control double crosses them at every given opportunity; which the Doctor soon suspects. He manages to partially injur the spider, but knows that to kill it would mean killing Donna too. And this, he wont do. He feels enormous guilt for ruining her life as well, and promises her that he will get her through this one way or other.

Upon reaching the Cascade, the gang are eager to close the rift; but the Doctor suddenly falters.

He breaks down. The only way to do this is by offering it a Human Life. Something which the Doctor hesitantly, and ashamedly admits, he has had to do once before, in order to end the time war.

He confesses that he and Dr. Grace Holloway (his compannion before Rose) threw themselves into the Medussa Cascade. It was meant to kill them both, only the Cascade spat him out. Badly injured, his body regenerated, and he awoke, alone, drifting through space. (We see both Paul McGann and Christopher Eccleston in flashback.) 

It took him almost 9 years to find his way back to the Tardis, in which time, he had found the strength to go on.

He looks to everyone who's lives he has touched, and destroyed around him - each of them with so much to live for - yet each of them offering thier own life, in order to seal the rift.

They begin fighting to be the one to do it.Jackie & Sarah Jane stating thier age as the reason. Jack his inability to die otherwise. Finally, one voice rings out over all the others.

Naturally, it's Donnas'. She explains that she doesn't feel she has anything to live for. She's badly injured and doesn't want to spend the next 60 years with half a dead spider hanging off her back. That's she's not a 'hero' like everyone else. She's just an office worker from Chiswick that wanted to travel. She doesn't head an important oranisation that keeps people safe. She doesn't know anything about aliens or time travel or anything important. She now also has no family to return to. The Doctor knows where she's going with this, and tries to object - but she quickly shuts him up, as only Donna can. She thanks the Doctor for giving her the chance to see that world. The Universe. All universes. To experience those things. To do this one thing, in her whole life, that is truely, truely important.

She kisses him tenderly on his tear stained cheek, giving him one last affectionate insult before smiling gently, and then slowly falls backward into the Cascade, sealing it with her death.

All realities are immediately restored to the exact point that Donna was meant to have died at the hand of the Racnos Empress.

Captain Jack & Sarah Jane return to thier lives, and Rose and the Tylers are forever sealed in the alternate universe.

The Doctor is plagued by guilt at the sacrifice that Donna has made for him. He vows that he will make it up to Donna, as she embodied everything he fought for in ever defending the human race. How someone, who thought themselves so very ordinary, could commit an act of such extraordinary selflessness and bravery.

So for Donna, and Donna alone, he will break one of the fundmental rules of the time lords. 

He goes back in time, just 24 hours further back and plucks Donna from her time stream, He destroys the Racnos Empress ship in Space and gets Jack to retcon Donna, leaving her with no recollection of what happened, and thus will never try to find him, to, in essence, repeat events.

She'll simply live out her life as she'd always intended, traveling the world and living out the great suburban dream.

The Doctor lands in Donna's street. Wilf, who is sick at home; unable to attend her wedding, see the Tardis land and rushes outside, to find Donna being lead, groggy from Retcon back to the House. He immediately realises the Doctor is an alien, and asks to know what happened.

'Don't worry Wilf', the Doctor says quietly 'She'll never remember a thing.'

He allows Wilf to guide Donna back into the House alone, and returns to the Tardis.

He looks sadly upon Donnas house, and watches for a moment through the window, as Wilf fusses over her and makes her a cup of tea.

He closes the Tardis Door, and it evetually fades from view.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 3, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Yeah, but the masters wife was the one who killed him after the master starting beating her up following his taking over of the world!



Maybe it was a cunning ruse to help him give the Doctor the slip.


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 3, 2008)

sounds like bobbins to me


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 3, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> warning- MASSIVE SPOILARAGE
> 
> although it doesn't appear to mention the regeneration or owt, trheres lots of plausable here. I think it might be semi-accurate
> 
> ...



Wow  - that does have a definite ring of plausibility about it


----------



## ovaltina (Jul 3, 2008)

must... resist...


----------



## Final (Jul 3, 2008)

Does the parallel universe which Rose lives in not have a Dr of it's own?


----------



## poster342002 (Jul 3, 2008)

Sounds plausible and certainly wraps up a lot of loose ends. One can only hope the show can then _finally_ move on to new plots and themes afterwards. It's accumulated an absurd amount of baggage and tortuous continuity in the four short years it's been back. More, perhaps, the entire original show's 26-seasons of running.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 3, 2008)

Hmm, some of it sounds like a pile of crap, but it incorporates a lot of little tricks that help everything get solved. Really fucking weird though.

A lot makes sense though.


----------



## secretsquirrel (Jul 3, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> warning- MASSIVE SPOILARAGE
> 
> although it doesn't appear to mention the regeneration or owt, trheres lots of plausable here. I think it might be semi-accurate
> 
> ...



Blimey. Someone has far too much time on their hands (kind of hope it's not true though otherwise I've just spoilt saturday night for myself!)


----------



## scifisam (Jul 3, 2008)

If that spoiler were true, I'd hate it.


----------



## 8den (Jul 3, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Wow  - that does have a definite ring of plausibility about it



And you'd need a tardis to shove that much plot into 65 minutes of tv.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 3, 2008)

8den said:


> And you'd need a tardis to shove that much plot into 65 minutes of tv.



Agreed. And dull! I'd rather sit through 3 hours of <insert dull telly here> than read that again.

Please let Harriet Jones still be deed!


----------



## AverageJoe (Jul 3, 2008)

Nah - its from Digital Spy - the guy who posted that admitted that he took *everyones* theories and then posted them up as one complete synopsis.

Oddly though, quite a lot of it rings true. He had previously claimed to have seen the entire series for "review purposes", and it caused a big hoo haa.

So, I reckon, so of it is true and some of it is false.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 3, 2008)

Yeah that was obviously written prior to _Turn Left_.


----------



## 8den (Jul 3, 2008)

AverageJoe said:


> Nah - its from Digital Spy - the guy who posted that admitted that he took *everyones* theories and then posted them up as one complete synopsis.
> 
> Oddly though, quite a lot of it rings true. He had previously claimed to have seen the entire series for "review purposes", and it caused a big hoo haa.
> 
> So, I reckon, so of it is true and some of it is false.



Highly improbable. 

If he's working on the series he's signed an NDA, on the current project I'm on, my NDA uses the terms "known universe", and I'm pretty sure I saw a clause about having my entrails eaten by crows till the end of time. 

If he's a reviewer he's also probably tied to an NDA, and review copies of a series usually go out one or two weeks before air *maximum*. 

His claim and plot now reek of utter bullshit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 4, 2008)

.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 4, 2008)

Final said:


> Does the parallel universe which Rose lives in not have a Dr of it's own?






for the lulz


----------



## Balbi (Jul 4, 2008)

Mad spoilers there, don't know how they managed to get this footage out


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 4, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Mad spoilers there, don't know how they managed to get this footage out



OMG


----------



## elevendayempire (Jul 4, 2008)

8den said:


> If he's a reviewer he's also probably tied to an NDA, and review copies of a series usually go out one or two weeks before air *maximum*.


If he's a reviewer he hasn't seen the final episode. End of. The Beeb aren't sending out preview discs for ep13.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jul 4, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Mad spoilers there, don't know how they managed to get this footage out



You should put that link in spoiler codes


----------



## Final (Jul 4, 2008)

21 hrs 10 mins to go.

Can. Not. Wait.


----------



## 8den (Jul 4, 2008)

elevendayempire said:


> If he's a reviewer he hasn't seen the final episode. End of. The Beeb aren't sending out preview discs for ep13.



That sounds much more likely.


----------



## Flashman (Jul 4, 2008)

Balbi said:


> Mad spoilers there, don't know how they managed to get this footage out






But how did Donn... actually if people want to know they can click it innit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 4, 2008)

You rickrollin cunts


----------



## janeb (Jul 4, 2008)

Well, whilst I'd love to see him as the next Dr (although I'm in no rush to see the back of DT) it does seem as if David Morriessey is going to be in the Xmas special, unless of course it's a case of cunning double bluff  


http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/showb...+special+featuring+deadly+Cybermen/article.do


----------



## Balbi (Jul 5, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> You rickrollin cunts



I'd laugh myself shitless if they rickrolled the finale


----------



## Balbi (Jul 5, 2008)

Radio Times said:
			
		

> What can we say about the finale of one of the best-ever series of Doctor Who? As it happens, not much, as preview DVDs weren't available. So, for all we know, the Doctor marries Davros and they live happily ever after in a little cottage with a pink door. Mmm, well perhaps not. What we do know is that the universe is in danger from the Daleks. Last week we saw this implacable foe take over the Earth after they'd captured a string of planets. But the Doctor was powerless to help, which meant the future of civilisation depended on former companions and old friends - Torchwood, Sarah Jane, Martha and Rose. Tonight, in a 65-minute special, the Doctor remains helpless and even the Tardis faces destruction. Time is running out and, as this small secret army musters to battle the wicked Davros himself, the prophecy declares that someone will die. Prepare to be gripped.



Lulz.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 5, 2008)

MEGA LULZ.


----------



## mrsfran (Jul 5, 2008)

Lulz.

*sits staring at TV screen, waiting*

HALF AN HOUR TO GO. EXCITED.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

Aw Fuck Off!!!


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

Spoke too soon. I'll keep watching.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

lol@daleks speaking in german


----------



## Vash (Jul 5, 2008)

This contradicts the TV movie (now uncanon) which said he was already half human but who cares.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

So Donna leaves? Great, but fuck sake, why do they have to do all this 'must wipe away everything from their mind' rubbish...makes the whole last series fucking pointless.


----------



## emanymton (Jul 5, 2008)

So am I alone in thinking that was pretty crap in the end?

Ok it’s not over yet but I’m so board I’m not sure I can watch the last 10 minutes


----------



## scifisam (Jul 5, 2008)

That ending fucking PISSED ME OFF. 

Not bothering with this stupid piece of shit show ever again.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

Shite ending as my last post said, but felt i had to say it again!


----------



## emanymton (Jul 5, 2008)

The ending that seems to be even longer than the ending of the last Lord of the rings films?


----------



## aqua (Jul 5, 2008)

I love the actor that plays Donnas Dad


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

He's one of the better actors.

Oooh cybermen are back, but, whats the point? We'll just be told to forget about it at the end of the series.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

I think in future they need to aim a bit lower with the finale and concentrate on writing it better. Let down!


----------



## Wookey (Jul 5, 2008)

aqua said:


> I love the actor that plays Donnas Dad



Bernard Cribbins has never looked so confused.

In my opinion, that was a great big pile of space bollocks. The writer wants shooting.


----------



## editor (Jul 5, 2008)

Well, I enjoyed it.

Bernard Cribbins was as fantastic as ever, and David Tennant really is a very, very good actor.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 5, 2008)

aqua said:


> I love the actor that plays Donnas Dad



He blew Tennant off the screen in their last scene together. Cribbens FTW.


----------



## El Jefe (Jul 5, 2008)

aqua said:


> I love the actor that plays Donnas Dad



Bernard Cribbins. A true gent


----------



## cesare (Jul 5, 2008)

That was a bit, er, lacking really.


----------



## fen_boy (Jul 5, 2008)

I really enjoyed it


----------



## Vash (Jul 5, 2008)

Shit ending notice Marthas hair was done like Hitlers. I think her from BallyKissangel will be the next companion too.


----------



## cesare (Jul 5, 2008)

But yeah, Bernard Cribbens is ace.


----------



## moomoo (Jul 5, 2008)

aqua said:


> I love the actor that plays Donnas Dad



It's her granddad I think?



editor said:


> Well, I enjoyed it.
> 
> Bernard Cribbins was as fantastic as ever, and David Tennant really is a very, very good actor.



We loved it.  And the ending brought tears to my eyes.


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 5, 2008)

Enjoyed it.

Reminded me of Solaris, in a very weird way.


----------



## Scaggs (Jul 5, 2008)

Crap episode. All that soppy stuff at the end was horrible


----------



## tangerinedream (Jul 5, 2008)

cesare said:


> That was a bit, er, lacking really.



Yeah, well put. I think it was a clue to why R.T.D has gone/going cos they had to return to what was a very effective climax to the 2nd series like some kind of good film with a poo sequal. A shame cos I thought the series worked well but it would have been better without a incredably convoluted ending... 

Ah, well. Like has been said Cribbins was good


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 5, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> So Donna leaves? Great, but fuck sake, why do they have to do all this 'must wipe away everything from their mind' rubbish...makes the whole last series fucking pointless.



Eh? If they'd killed the character off, would that have made it less pointless?

I enjoyed it overall. I didn't like what happened to Donna, but I don't think we were supposed to.


----------



## tangerinedream (Jul 5, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> lol@daleks speaking in german


----------



## wishface (Jul 5, 2008)

emanymton said:


> So am I alone in thinking that was pretty crap in the end?



Nope.


----------



## belboid (Jul 5, 2008)

a bit disappointing, but still pretty good - no reset (except for Donna), no Master. Rose story finally finished off in a way that means there is never any reason to go back to it.  Doctor Donna was fucking cool, but, as we all know, the light that burns twice as strong burns half as long, and she shone so very very brightly.  could have done with less pseudo-techno babble tho

was that Miranda Richardson in the trailer? I hope so


----------



## scifisam (Jul 5, 2008)

The rest of the episode was pretty good - the acting was brilliant and it all kinda worked.

My daughter pointed out at the start that the Earth should be being ripped apart by the gravity of all those other planets around it, and that being towed like that should have caused tidal waves that killed everybody. But ah, Dr Who has never been believable science fiction. 

It's the ending. It's having someone be great, save the world and so on, and then never give them any credit, never let them remember it at all - that's what I really, really hate. I've seen it in a couple of shows before, and for some reason it makes me really angry.


----------



## fieryjack (Jul 5, 2008)

Julian Bleach was absolutely class.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Eh? If they'd killed the character off, would that have made it less pointless?
> 
> I enjoyed it overall. I didn't like what happened to Donna, but I don't think we were supposed to.



I just don't see the reason to pretend like nothing ever happened.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

moomoo said:


> It's her granddad I think?
> 
> 
> 
> We loved it.  And the ending brought tears to my eyes.



Seriously? I thought it was like Charlie Brooker once said of Dr Who- Rather than pull at the heart strings occasionally they were perpetually yanking at them so it was just cheesy. It's a shame they never listened to him. I'll find the link..


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 5, 2008)

it felt like it could have done with well about another 2 hours tbh... no detail more like a chose your own adventure oyu've played before that you skip the bits which you assume you know and get to the end... 

kinda missed the whole point.

even with the bit's which were shown it left a whole load of plot holes a mile wide some of which being...

2nd doctor might be part human part time lord however would have the knowledge of how to build maintain and use a new tardis not to mention that unit on the parael universe had their own tardis in units basement which rose used to travel across the dimensions.

the second doctor couldn't have been created by regeneration if he could regenerate. 

putting the planets back including the ones which had been gone for serveal millenia (lost moon of poosh, adipose etc) means that the universe would rebalance. 

If donna went mad then the 2nd doctor would also go mad.

killing off the darleks means they aren't ever going to make another darlek episode... yeah right... 

however it wasn't without it's high points and was still enjoyable but more almost a set piece outside of the drwho universe....


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 5, 2008)

So, did we ever find out who it was that picked up that ring?


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 5, 2008)

scifisam said:


> It's the ending. It's having someone be great, save the world and so on, and then never give them any credit, never let them remember it at all - that's what I really, really hate. I've seen it in a couple of shows before, and for some reason it makes me really angry.



I reckon we haven't seen the last of her.


----------



## moomoo (Jul 5, 2008)

diamarzipan said:


> Seriously? I thought it was like Charlie Brooker once said of Dr Who- Rather than pull at the heart strings occasionally they were perpetually yanking at them so it was just cheesy. It's a shame they never listened to him. I'll find the link..




I like cheesy endings........


----------



## belboid (Jul 5, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> I just don't see the reason to pretend like nothing ever happened.



eh? Who is meant to be doing that?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Eh? If they'd killed the character off, would that have made it less pointless?



Certainly. Would you have rather died knowing you once saved the planet or live your whole life as that 'temp from Chiswick'?


----------



## tangerinedream (Jul 5, 2008)

diamarzipan said:


> Seriously? I thought it was like Charlie Brooker once said of Dr Who- Rather than pull at the heart strings occasionally they were perpetually yanking at them so it was just cheesy. It's a shame they never listened to him. I'll find the link..




tru say


----------



## cesare (Jul 5, 2008)

tangerinedream said:


> Yeah, well put. I think it was a clue to why R.T.D has gone/going cos they had to return to what was a very effective climax to the 2nd series like some kind of good film with a poo sequal. A shame cos I thought the series worked well but it would have been better without a incredably convoluted ending...
> 
> Ah, well. Like has been said Cribbins was good



The series has been very good, I've really enjoyed it. But yes, that convoluted ending ... ach. I'm not feeling anti as such, just vaguely dissatisfied, a bit let down.

Cybermen. I wonder if they'll be as creepy as they were when I was little!


----------



## belboid (Jul 5, 2008)

diamarzipan said:


> Certainly. Would you have rather died knowing you once saved the planet or live your whole life as that 'temp from Chiswick'?




but there's the pathos innit?  Far more heart-rending.  Takes nothing away from what 'actually' happened


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

belboid said:


> eh? Who is meant to be doing that?



Donna. 

Did you not follow the story?


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

moomoo said:


> I like cheesy endings........



Me too. But it like was a big cheesy buggery session, not just an ending. Too many dramatic revelations, one after the other. Too much, too much.


----------



## belboid (Jul 5, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Donna.
> 
> Did you not follow the story?



Yes, and I understood it.  Which seems to be mre than you did I'm afraid


----------



## cesare (Jul 5, 2008)

Actually, that final episode kind of reminded me of the Christmas special.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 5, 2008)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> So, did we ever find out who it was that picked up that ring?



not yet no...

but that i guess allows moffet to do another master story...


----------



## scifisam (Jul 5, 2008)

diamarzipan said:


> Certainly. Would you have rather died knowing you once saved the planet or live your whole life as that 'temp from Chiswick'?



Exactly. 

If it's true, and we haven't seen the last of Donna, then I'll find out online and start watching again. The ring she was wearing when she picked up the hand in the jar was obviously the master's ring, but I thought have must have missed the episode where she got hold of it. 

It's not that I love Donna so much, but that I hate that particular plot device.


----------



## goldenecitrone (Jul 5, 2008)

It certainly is a great kid's TV programme. Makes me wish I was 8 again so I could really get into it.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

belboid said:


> Yes, and I understood it.  Which seems to be mre than you did I'm afraid



Basically everythings back to normal, nothings changed really other than the rose/doctor thing ending. Kind of bored with that sort of ending. That's just my opinion, no need to get stressed over it.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Exactly.
> 
> If it's true, and we haven't seen the last of Donna, then I'll find out online and start watching again. The ring she was wearing when she picked up the hand in the jar was obviously the master's ring, but I thought have must have missed the episode where she got hold of it.
> 
> It's not that I love Donna so much, but that I hate that particular plot device.


I don't think it was! I think that was a red herring, you heard thumping, saw a ring... is it the masters ring? Of course she noise she heard was the third doctors heart, and you thought she was becoming the master but then she didn't. It was just a plastic ring, i think. Or am I missing something?


----------



## wishface (Jul 5, 2008)

belboid said:


> eh? Who is meant to be doing that?


I wish I could.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 5, 2008)

donnas mind is wpied but not so much that if she remembers that she'll return to the timelord human hybrid... and the master's ring exists i can see an evil donna episode coming about in the future, she puts on master ring is immunised by specail timelord ring powers of woot but is still corrupted by the madness goe son evil bent as the master infects her hybrid and volia master becomes donna becomes deaded regened and dr who has two villans recreated as master saves the darleks/davros/caan before the big explosion i mean we didn't see them die did we... dr has to kill his old nemasis and companion would make for a rather good less fromage based series...


----------



## scifisam (Jul 5, 2008)

diamarzipan said:


> I don't think it was! I think that was a red herring, you heard thumping, saw a ring... is it the masters ring? Of course she noise she heard was the third doctors heart, and you thought she was becoming the master but then she didn't. It was just a plastic ring, i think. Or am I missing something?



I never thought she was becoming the master, and I'm not sure how she heard the thumping of the third doctor's heart before he existed. Maybe the ring was just a red herring, though.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 5, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Exactly.
> 
> If it's true, and we haven't seen the last of Donna, then I'll find out online and start watching again. The ring she was wearing when she picked up the hand in the jar was obviously the master's ring, but I thought have must have missed the episode where she got hold of it.



no it wasn't the masters ring had all those freemasiony occult writings on it hers was a simple topshop type mean facuted black plastic one it's very visable in several scenes and clearly isn't the same ring...


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 5, 2008)

The 'everyone fly the Tardis' scene was a new low in cheesiness. Overall something of an anticlimax after last week. 

Looks like a bit of a clearout of actors too, Donna and Rose now out of it. Wonder who the next assistant's gonna be?


----------



## scifisam (Jul 5, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> donnas mind is wpied but not so much that if she remembers that she'll return to the timelord human hybrid... and the master's ring exists i can see an evil donna episode coming about in the future, she puts on master ring is immunised by specail timelord ring powers of woot but is still corrupted by the madness goe son evil bent as the master infects her hybrid and volia master becomes donna becomes deaded regened and dr who has two villans recreated as master saves the darleks/davros/caan before the big explosion i mean we didn't see them die did we... dr has to kill his old nemasis and companion would make for a rather good less fromage based series...



Yeah, that'd work for me. We didn't see Harriet Jones die either.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 5, 2008)

goldenecitrone said:


> It certainly is a great kid's TV programme. Makes me wish I was 8 again so I could really get into it.



It's the only show that I unleash my inner 8-year-old on. Gah! I sometimes babysit my niece and nephews on a Saturday - I watched Blink with them (which was fun) - and now I wish I had their reaction. Their in Spain at the moment, so...


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 5, 2008)

I seem to remember Troughton losing two of his companions in a similar manner. Didn't that Scottish chap get mindwiped as well?

Also: massively looking forward to the next series of Torchwood now.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

scifisam said:


> I never thought she was becoming the master, and I'm not sure how she heard the thumping of the third doctor's heart before he existed. Maybe the ring was just a red herring, though.



I don't know either, but he mumbled something about that noise being his heart. I think it was a  twist they didn't quite manage to pull off very well.  

I was also laughing at the fact that Oster Hagan really was just an anagram of earths gone(i'm assuming, since that was what the key did)! All the hard work of the spoiler-creators gone to waste!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 5, 2008)

Not a bad ending IMHO, although it could have done with having some of the more superfluous bits of cheese trimmed out. I still don't quite see the point of having that 'supreme dalek' in it though, he mostly just got blown up and generally failed to have anything to with anything 

e2a: and that crazy dalek prohpet chap said "one will still die" didn't he? Nobody actually died though did they?

*goes and watches genesis of the daleks again to remind himself how these things should be done*


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 5, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> e2a: and that crazy dalek prohpet chap said "one will still die" didn't he? Nobody actually died though did they?



Davros?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> *goes and watches genesis of the daleks again to remind himself how these things should be done*



Genesis of the daleks was good. I have it on tape somewhere.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Davros?



Nah he worbled 'oooone muuusst stilll diiiieee post-davros-death. Maybe he meant Donna's spiritual/emotional death, her great great loss!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 5, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> Davros?



I though he was talking about one of the doctor's mates though tbh. And we didn't see Davros die either, he might have pulled off one of those 'emergency temporal shift' hoopajoops that Caan used to go back to the time war...


----------



## scifisam (Jul 5, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> no it wasn't the masters ring had all those freemasiony occult writings on it hers was a simple topshop type mean facuted black plastic one it's very visable in several scenes and clearly isn't the same ring...



Fair enough. Just a red herring then, or maybe an intentional echoing of when that female hand picked up the ring.


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 5, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> e2a: and that crazy dalek prohpet chap said "one will still die" didn't he? Nobody actually died though did they?



Well the human/doctor hybrid will eventually die, we took it to mean that !


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jul 5, 2008)

I'd like it if  Dalek Caan survived. The series might need a genuinely insane Oracle.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 5, 2008)

Vash said:


> Shit ending notice Marthas hair was done like Hitlers. I think her from BallyKissangel will be the next companion too.



Nah, she looked like a baddie from the the two seconds we saw of her.

She was pulling that face that the baddies do.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 5, 2008)

scifisam said:


> Yeah, that'd work for me. We didn't see Harriet Jones die either.



but davros mentioned that she had which rather implies she was killed.



diamarzipan said:


> I don't know either, but he mumbled something about that noise being his heart. I think it was a  twist they didn't quite manage to pull off very well.
> 
> I was also laughing at the fact that Oster Hagan really was just an anagram of earths gone(i'm assuming, since that was what the key did)! All the hard work of the spoiler-creators gone to waste!



the noise as the hear beating through time it was explained by way of one of those wibble wobbly timey wimey stuff type explainations which was lost in the rather funny doctor donna 2nd doctor interactions... 



SpookyFrank said:


> Not a bad ending IMHO, although it could have done with having some of the more superfluous bits of cheese trimmed out. I still don't quite see the point of having that 'supreme dalek' in it though, he mostly just got blown up and generally failed to have anything to with anything
> 
> e2a: and that crazy dalek prohpet chap said "one will still die" didn't he? Nobody actually died though did they?
> 
> *goes and watches genesis of the daleks again to remind himself how these things should be done*



supreme darlek was the leader the genisis as it were...

also why was davros in the vault locked up by the supreme darlek and why did the supreme darlek pull rank on davros?  not seen the end of them yet i'd imagine davros will survive, as will caan... 



diamarzipan said:


> Nah he worbled 'oooone muuusst stilll diiiieee post-davros-death. Maybe he meant Donna's spiritual/emotional death, her great great loss!



neither although it alludes to both the memory loss of donna and the 2nd doctors finite lifetime, it clearly meant the end of the darlek empire and that there would be a death of sorts as the 2nd doctor was created in a manner which lead to him causing the death of which the doctor has sought to avoid.

in effect it was the death of the doctor himself as he surrendered to his murderous side via his proxy... 



scifisam said:


> Fair enough. Just a red herring then, or maybe an intentional echoing of when that female hand picked up the ring.



deleiberate echo me thinks allowing for the master resurrection/evil donna storyline to be picked up or quitely dropped as moffet see's fit i'd guess...


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 5, 2008)

..


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 5, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> Nah, she looked like a baddie from the the two seconds we saw of her.
> 
> She was pulling that face that the baddies do.



xmas companions are rarely series companions ...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 5, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> SpookyFrank said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



yeah except that doesn't follow in series or indeed the mythos of the doctors own regnerations etc him being half human already, him having previously having only one heart and of course not to mention his own tardis and what with rose being the head of unit in effect his own space rangers... added to which he's got the doctors mind and is in effect the doctor so could have years to find away to save himself and rose if need be...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 5, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> Well the human/doctor hybrid will eventually die, we took it to mean that !



Yeah but they'll all die _eventually_. Bit of a shit prophecy telling someone they'll die at some point in the future init? That's right up there with predicting that Wales will not win the next world cup


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 5, 2008)

Load of overblown bollocks with lots of magic wands being waved to get rid of the baddies.

And enough with the fucking relentless background music already! 

All Enjoyable enough but a half convincing, taughlty written, exciting  plot would be much better - but clearly something RTD is not capable of.

And the drawn old ending .... garrrgghh

Doctor Donna was good - Tate was probably the best actor on the screen. 

And can we have Bernard Cribbens as the new assistant?


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

Cribbens was the best actor imo.


----------



## belboid (Jul 5, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> Basically everythings back to normal, nothings changed really other than the rose/doctor thing ending. Kind of bored with that sort of ending. That's just my opinion, no need to get stressed over it.



except that isn't really what happened at all.  aah well, what will be will be


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 5, 2008)

Kaka Tim said:


> And enough with the fucking relentless background music already!



The tune was like summat from an early Clint spag western. A bit of synthesizer weirdness would be more appropriate IMO.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

belboid said:


> except that isn't really what happened at all.  aah well, what will be will be



If donna was allowed to remember what happened, i wouldnt be complaining, and if one of the good guys had died to. Makes it more dramatic if that happens.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2008)

TrippyLondoner said:


> So Donna leaves? Great, but fuck sake, why do they have to do all this 'must wipe away everything from their mind' rubbish...makes the whole last series fucking pointless.



given your 'oh stop bitchin' stance earlier in thredad this comment is lol



Fucking great stuff however. The heartbeats, sound of drums? Donnas ring, the masters ring.

Yes I am trying to shoehorn Master conspiracies even tho the ep had none of brilliant simms madness.

Also, Donna mind wiped. Potential moon song one day?


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2008)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> I'd like it if  Dalek Caan survived. The series might need a genuinely insane Oracle.



Dalek Caan should become the doctors new assistant  Or give him a spinoff show where he can become the successor to Russell Grant and Mystic Meg.


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> given your 'oh stop bitchin' stance earlier in thredad this comment is lol




I liked the 2nd half of the series, but feel a bit let down. Its not like i bitch about it all the time. Get over it ehh.


----------



## smokedout (Jul 5, 2008)

i watched it at pride in trafalgar square and it was cheesy as fuck but really good fun, everyone was cheering every time the doctor had a bit of a comeback


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 5, 2008)

smokedout said:


> i watched it at pride in trafalgar square and it was cheesy as fuck but really good fun, everyone was cheering every time the doctor had a bit of a comeback



LOL wtf


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2008)

scifisam said:


> That ending fucking PISSED ME OFF.
> 
> Not bothering with this stupid piece of shit show ever again.



another fairweather fan falls by the wayside


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

smokedout said:


> i watched it at pride in trafalgar square and it was cheesy as fuck but really good fun, everyone was cheering every time the doctor had a bit of a comeback



 Hey, that would have improved the episode GREATLY. (has fond memories of Pride in Soho square last year)


----------



## Sweaty Betty (Jul 5, 2008)

It was bloody great- and i reckon he is the best doc and is gonna be hard to replace.........


----------



## ovaltina (Jul 5, 2008)

Was quite good. Bit too much CGI for my liking.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> given your 'oh stop bitchin' stance earlier in thredad this comment is lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2008)

belboid said:


> a bit disappointing, but still pretty good - no reset (except for Donna), no Master. Rose story finally finished off in a way that means there is never any reason to go back to it. Doctor Donna was fucking cool, but, as we all know, the light that burns twice as strong burns half as long, and she shone so very very brightly. could have done with less pseudo-techno babble tho
> 
> was that Miranda Richardson in the trailer? I hope so


]

Look at you with your Bladerunner references


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 5, 2008)

diamarzipan;7728044][QUOTE=DotCommunist said:


> given your 'oh stop bitchin' stance earlier in thredad this comment is lol
> 
> 
> 
> even tho the ep had none of brilliant simms madness.



Eh? Explain in non-geek for me(simms madness)  ...i missed a few chunks of DW along the way.. much of the masters return, for instance.[/QUOTE]

John Simm played the regerated master who was a demonic manic version of tony blair... and it was done in a way which only jon simm could have really... the interplay between him and ten inch was actually the best part of the series til the 2nd doctor essexing it up in this episode....

anyone else think that actually when they wrote decent dialouge for tate she was the equaly of ten inch if not more so... damn shame they chose the last of the series where she's written out for that to come to her charchter.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> it felt like it could have done with well about another 2 hours tbh... no detail more like a chose your own adventure oyu've played before that you skip the bits which you assume you know and get to the end...
> 
> kinda missed the whole point.
> 
> ...




TARDIS are not independant machines, rather a form of life woven by the Looms. You couldn't create one with future technology (the means to do so perished with Gallifrey in the time war). The idea that human-doc could make one using 20th century tech doesn't work.

Units device was not a tardis. Consider the human dimension jump tech as a badly reverse engineered lash up of of some aspects of the TARDIS tech. TARDIS have a pocket universe in side them. Replicating that is unlikely.

Yes he could. The regenerations are woven in by House Loom, and such trickery is limited to only the main time lord. Carbon copies won't be able to follow his regeneration path


----------



## scifisam (Jul 5, 2008)

smokedout said:


> i watched it at pride in trafalgar square and it was cheesy as fuck but really good fun, everyone was cheering every time the doctor had a bit of a comeback



I KNEW they'd show it! 

I think they showed it many of the post-Pride events, too. 

I couldn't go to any, because my daughter's sick.  We had costumes and everything. 

@DC: yeah, I am a fair-weather fan, but they're the ones who keep the ratings up and keep the show on TV.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> John Simm played the regerated master who was a demonic manic version of tony blair... and it was done in a way which only jon simm could have really... the interplay between him and ten inch was actually the best part of the series til the 2nd doctor essexing it up in this episode....
> 
> anyone else think that actually when they wrote decent dialouge for tate she was the equaly of ten inch if not more so... damn shame they chose the last of the series where she's written out for that to come to her charchter.



I won't tell you how long it took me to realise wtf 'ten inch' was. Hahaha! Thank you and agreed- i got all excited when tate got going and thought 'yes! some cracking dialogue!!' but she was only 'special' for about 5 minutes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Not a bad ending IMHO, although it could have done with having some of the more superfluous bits of cheese trimmed out. I still don't quite see the point of having that 'supreme dalek' in it though, he mostly just got blown up and generally failed to have anything to with anything
> 
> e2a: and that crazy dalek prohpet chap said "one will still die" didn't he? Nobody actually died though did they?
> 
> *goes and watches genesis of the daleks again to remind himself how these things should be done*



Supreme Dalek was in charge. Stavros was like a gifted, tame mascot from what I watched


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 5, 2008)

ten inch is what billy called him after appernently...


----------



## DexterTCN (Jul 5, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> ten inch


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2008)

diamarzipan;7728044][quote=DotCommunist said:


> given your 'oh stop bitchin' stance earlier in thredad this comment is lol
> 
> 
> 
> ...


#

the heartbeat bit was reminiscent of the 'sound of drums' stuff from the episodes with simms as the Master.
They were great cause they showed a master truly deranged and out of control rather than the usual machiavellan master of old. His prolonged life COST him dear. And the drums? never explained


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 5, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Supreme Dalek was in charge. Stavros was like a gifted, tame mascot from what I watched



when was it ever different davros was their cheif scientist, archytype and ultimately their nemsis ... 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davros#The_Kaled.2FThal_Conflict


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 5, 2008)

DexterTCN said:


>



cos of his big hands of course...


----------



## scifisam (Jul 5, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> John Simm played the regerated master who was a demonic manic version of tony blair... and it was done in a way which only jon simm could have really... the interplay between him and ten inch was actually the best part of the series til the 2nd doctor essexing it up in this episode....
> 
> anyone else think that actually when they wrote decent dialouge for tate she was the equaly of ten inch if not more so... damn shame they chose the last of the series where she's written out for that to come to her charchter.



I did love that bit, and then when Donna's dialogue went all Tennant. That was very well-written and acted. 

I thought Tate's acting was excellent in this episode, showing pretty complex emotions in subtle ways, not hamming it up. Tennant was also excellent, holding back a little more than usual. All the acting was good (except maybe Rose's) - including Harriet Jones's deep breath, shoulders back, bracing herself before dying. And the effects were cool. 

But the ending. Such a shit ending.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2008)

scifisam said:


> I KNEW they'd show it!
> 
> I think they showed it many of the post-Pride events, too.
> 
> ...



Lol. A show as long running as who is propelled by fans who caught the bug as children and continue to regard it with great affection, fans who forgive the plot holes and the bad effects (of yesteryear).
Don't give up. Or else I'll kill you with a sonic screwdriver (look, I'm being doctorish by giving you the chance to make the right choice ennit)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> when was it ever different davros was their cheif scientist, archytype and ultimately their nemsis ...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Davros#The_Kaled.2FThal_Conflict



yes yes I got caught in a wiki loop of dalek history a few weeks ago. Stavros as Master went out with the imperial daleks and the battle for the hand of omega. I still have a gold and white imperial dalek toy

But the power relationship between creator and creator is shifting, always.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 5, 2008)

DotCommunist;7728129][quote=diamarzipan said:


> #
> 
> the heartbeat bit was reminiscent of the 'sound of drums' stuff from the episodes with simms as the Master.
> They were great cause they showed a master truly deranged and out of control rather than the usual machiavellan master of old. His prolonged life COST him dear. And the drums? never explained



I noticed the heartbeat/drum sound similarity(saw the episode where the master first appeared) just didnae know that the name of the guy that played the master was John Simms. It was strange to see so soon after some people on digital spy were saying Donna was the master, and she'd absorbed time lord abilities which sounded shite at the time... timey wimey spacey  THE WHO CREW ARE ALIENS!


----------



## FabricLiveBaby! (Jul 5, 2008)

Captain Jack Harkness quote FTW:

Rose: So there's three doctors?

CJ: I can't tell you what I'm thinking right now.





.... I bet you can't Jack.  Not pre watershed anyway!


----------



## Woollyredhat (Jul 5, 2008)

emanymton said:


> The ending that seems to be even longer than the ending of the last Lord of the rings films?



Is that really possible?


----------



## scifisam (Jul 5, 2008)

FabricLiveBaby! said:


> Captain Jack Harkness quote FTW:
> 
> Rose: So there's three doctors?
> 
> ...



That was brilliant. Really makes me wish I'd been at Trafalgar Sq. to hear the reaction to that.

My daughter asked what he was thinking. I said ' for the fifteenth time, stop talking during the episode or you can go to your room!'

 She doesn't do it for other shows.


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 5, 2008)

fieryjack said:


> Julian Bleach was absolutely class.



He was the best thing about it by a mile - shame Davros was so badly misused/underused really. A fucking horrible mess of a finale.


----------



## janeb (Jul 5, 2008)

I still think Donna and the ring have some mileage to go yet - when she was in the kitchen and talking on her mobile the ring caught the lights and glittered a couple of times that looked very stagey and like a future set up.  

I loved Doctor Donna and she would be great as a future baddie


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 6, 2008)

To summarise...

• The Doctor is, yet again, facing a lonely Christmas.
• The Daleks are extinct - until the next series.
• The Master's ring, which undoubtedly contains his consciousness, remains, and is quite possibly adorning the hand of Donna Noble.
• Jack, Mickey and Donna are off to Torchwood three, where Mickey and Ianto will engage in frequent explicit sex-sessions (*melts*).
• Bonkers Dalek Caan is _soo_ cute! I want to buy a cuddly one for my niece!
• Mickey has clearly been enjoying the odd threesome with his tangoed sitting boyfriend and the mother of his ex.
• Earth is half-destroyed, but come series five its residents will be "Oh, what was that? Were they terrorists or summink? Did I imagine the whole thing?"

Dalek-wise, t'will be hard to top. From would-be destroyers of reality itself to but four feathered pimp-hat wearing gangmasters won't wash for a second time. I was right about the Davros/Supreme Dalek relationship, though I'm at a loss as to how Davros expected to survive. Wasn't explained why his Dalek attendents were given toilet-brushes instead of plungers either.


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 6, 2008)

janeb said:


> I still think Donna and the ring have some mileage to go yet - when she was in the kitchen and talking on her mobile the ring caught the lights and glittered a couple of times that looked very stagey and like a future set up.


Yep noticed that too, depends really what Moffat decides to do with the next series, I guess, but there's a 'hook' there if he wants it.


----------



## gnoriac (Jul 6, 2008)

Nine Bob Note said:


> • The Daleks are extinct - until the next series.


When the Doctor will yet again feign surprise - "but you were all destroyed, I saw it with my own eyes"!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 6, 2008)

it wasn't the masters ring look maters ring






donnas ring.







although not a good image it's clearly not the same ring even at that range.

if you watch the episode again it's clearly visable on the screen for a few seconds and it's a black fake dimond effect not one with symbols on it...


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 6, 2008)

It was displayed prominently, a la the Doctor's hand. It will not be irrelevant.


----------



## Sweaty Betty (Jul 6, 2008)

I discovered tonight, that i actually fancy Dr Who, maybe it is Tennant, but when interviewed i went off him, so it must be the character.....


----------



## Nine Bob Note (Jul 6, 2008)

Adendum...

What of the mighty Shadow Proclamation? Scary albino women with birds-nest hair and Judoon guards in some random corporate foyer amounting to nothing? It's not gonna sell toys, I tells ye.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 6, 2008)

Not the kind of structure i like to be honest.  They activate all the players - his various villains, assistants and fellow travellers - and then the whole thing becomes about how they will fall into place at the end, in some neat conclusion.  A bit like twisting a rubiks cube for three episodes, in the knowledge that its going to end up completed.  Problem is, all that moving the chess pieces round gets in the way of genuine plot and drama.

Similarly, all the plot devices, like the hand, were far from subtle (heavy handed? ).

Okay, you realise he's going to survive - as will the earth.  Equally, you know the daleks will come again (didn't actually _see _Davros die).  But within those parameters, they could have produced something less clunky.  Fair enough, its light entertainment and should be fun.  However the revived Dr Who is better than the old ones because it now has serious relationships between the main characters i.e. its more adult.  However in this one, they even seemed to think the emotions had to be brought to a similarly neat conclusion.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jul 6, 2008)

I liked it!

Davros is definitely going to come back, he's harder to kill than Jack Harkness.

Shame about Donna though...


----------



## Flashman (Jul 6, 2008)

Really liked it, cried at the end with the Cribbins scene. He sang Right Said Fred once too. Legend.

Not really arsed about about geek flaws; carry on now Moffat bring me another silver bowl of shit, thank'ee.


----------



## mrsfran (Jul 6, 2008)

I liked it.

I thought it was clever how they've now left an opening for David Tennant and Billie Piper to come back to the series _at any point in their lives in the future_. If Dr Who is still on in 30 years time, they can still turn up and be in it because they're allowed to age. Nice work if you can get it.

I cried a bit at Bernard Cribbin's scene


----------



## Vash (Jul 6, 2008)

The other Dr was half human but maybe Donna's a whole timelord now and well regenerate.


----------



## mrsfran (Jul 6, 2008)

Have we got any answer on Billie's speech defect, btw? To me it sounds like she had a retainer in, or too many teeth. Or is it just botox?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 6, 2008)

Vash said:


> The other Dr was half human but maybe Donna's a whole timelord now and well regenerate.



no she isn't... she's half human half timelord which is why she went mad


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 6, 2008)

Nine Bob Note said:


> It was displayed prominently, a la the Doctor's hand. It will not be irrelevant.



i think it's a plot tool gateway; it could be significant if moffet want's it to be it could be totally irrelevant it's a lead isn't it to allow a return of donna (hopefully with the dialogue she got in the last episode rather than the rest of the dialogue she's had all series as it was infinately better) but it isn't necessarly important at all. 

I think RTD was actually quite gracious really he cleared his entire back catalogue out of the way to allow moffet in effect a freash start with the entire new series, whatever else you think about him few people would have rebuilt something such as this and then written off most of their work in order that someone else can have a stab at it in their own way.


----------



## janeb (Jul 6, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> i think it's a plot tool gateway; it could be significant if moffet want's it to be it could be totally irrelevant it's a lead isn't it to allow a return of donna (hopefully with the dialogue she got in the last episode rather than the rest of the dialogue she's had all series as it was infinately better) but it isn't necessarly important at all.



Agree totally, it's clearly not the Masters ring, but it can be held in reserve until / if needed

*starts campaign to bring back Donna*


----------



## Gromit (Jul 6, 2008)

janeb said:


> Agree totally, it's clearly not the Masters ring, but it can be held in reserve until / if needed
> 
> *starts campaign to bring back Donna*


 
It is the master's ring but just as the tardis can disguise its self as a mundane police box the ring can diguise itself as some tat from Elizabeth Duke.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2008)

janeb said:


> Agree totally, it's clearly not the Masters ring, but it can be held in reserve until / if needed
> 
> **starts campaign to bring back Donna**




you'll be fighting a tide of fanboy Donna haters on that one. The know nothing fules that they are


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 6, 2008)

You know this thread kinda depresses me.......


i'm a long time sci-fi fan and have been watching Doctor Who since the late sixties.........

it's not meant to be taken sooooo seriously !

It was always a bit crap and creaky, that's it's charm imo !

It's a bit like Star Trek.......i love it and have had ridiculous conversations in great detail about it but..........go too far and it spoils it !


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> You know this thread kinda depresses me.......
> 
> 
> i'm a long time sci-fi fan and have been watching Doctor Who since the late sixties.........
> ...



Science Fiction is Serious Business Mentalchik


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 6, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Science Fiction is Serious Business Mentalchik




Oi.............been into sci fi longer than you've been alive ya young whippersnapper........


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 6, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> You know this thread kinda depresses me.......
> 
> 
> i'm a long time sci-fi fan and have been watching Doctor Who since the late sixties.........
> ...



Yeah,  a lot of people have made fools of themselves on this thread.


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 6, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Science Fiction is Serious Business Mentalchik




Oi DC, just found this in a charity shop at the weekend !


----------



## tangerinedream (Jul 6, 2008)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> i think it's a plot tool gateway; it could be significant if moffet want's it to be it could be totally irrelevant it's a lead isn't it to allow a return of donna (hopefully with the dialogue she got in the last episode rather than the rest of the dialogue she's had all series as it was infinately better) but it isn't necessarly important at all.
> 
> I think RTD was actually quite gracious really he cleared his entire back catalogue out of the way to allow moffet in effect a freash start with the entire new series, whatever else you think about him few people would have rebuilt something such as this and then written off most of their work in order that someone else can have a stab at it in their own way.



Yes, I agree with that.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2008)

Nine Bob Note said:


> Adendum...
> 
> What of the mighty Shadow Proclamation? Scary albino women with birds-nest hair and Judoon guards in some random corporate foyer amounting to nothing? It's not gonna sell toys, I tells ye.



Possibly a set-up for the next series? Shadow Proclamation get uzi-ed up and go after the Doctor for disobeying them?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> Oi DC, just found this in a charity shop at the weekend !



oh massive win! how much?


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 6, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> oh massive win! how much?





£2.99 !


It's beautiful !



(geeky slobber)


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2008)

I want one!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2008)

whoever gave that to a charity shop obviously has no soul. Science fiction is like a beautiful dream, better than fantasy because it just might come to be. Canuck once dismissed sci fi fans as emotionally retarded boys. Truly he missed the point.


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 6, 2008)

It's from 1978 and has wicked artwork inside !


(looks smug)


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2008)

It was a really find wasn't it? *envious* Ebay have it but the postage is very high


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2008)

cesare said:


> It was a really find wasn't it? *envious* Ebay have it but the postage is very high



shame.

The only great charidee shop fin I got recently was a 1960's 'Great Essayists of the 20 Century'


All the sci fi books languishing in my local shops are distinctly third rate authors, or one s I already have.

Best charity shop sci fi i ever had was Tricia Sullivans Maul. Honestly she is on a par with with Le Guin.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 6, 2008)

I liked the episode. Rounded things off nicely. Only shouted "Nooooooooo!" once when it was implied that Martha may go to Torchwood  Dear god I hope not but i fear my hope may go for nought.

Loved the Daleks speaking German! Cool!

And I was a bit teary at the Bernard Cribbens scene at the end. Would like to see Wilf come back if possible as he's a great character.

Wonder who the next assistant will be....?


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 6, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Best charity shop sci fi i ever had was Tricia Sullivans Maul. Honestly she is on a par with with Le Guin.




I must try re-reading that again......think i ran out of steam with it the first time !

Le Guin rocks !


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Jul 6, 2008)

Marius said:


> It is the master's ring but just as the tardis can disguise its self as a mundane police box the ring can diguise itself as some tat from Elizabeth Duke.



tbh i don't think it was that good, she's a temp from chiswick innit it'll be from the local tkmaxx


----------



## janeb (Jul 6, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> It's from 1978 and has wicked artwork inside !
> 
> 
> (looks smug)



I used to have that, but it got lost when i was in a '_moving flats 6 times in 6 months'_ phase in the early 80's


----------



## TrippyLondoner (Jul 6, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I liked the episode. Rounded things off nicely. Only shouted "Nooooooooo!" once when it was implied that Martha may go to Torchwood  Dear god I hope not but i fear my hope may go for nought.
> 
> Loved the Daleks speaking German! Cool!
> 
> ...



The daleks speaking german made me laugh.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 6, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> I liked the episode. Rounded things off nicely. Only shouted "Nooooooooo!" once when it was implied that Martha may go to Torchwood  Dear god I hope not but i fear my hope may go for nought.



I think Torchwood may now become my favourite TV show.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 6, 2008)

Stigmata said:


> I think Torchwood may now become my favourite TV show.




Noooooooooooo. Not with Martha in it. She can't act, just grimace!


----------



## the button (Jul 6, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> It's from 1978 and has wicked artwork inside !
> 
> 
> (looks smug)



£3 from Abe Books, including P&P. Seller in the UK, although listing was on US site. Win.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 6, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Noooooooooooo. Not with Martha in it. She can't act, just grimace!



But her character is supercool and I feel all funny when she's on screen. And I don't watch Torchwood for the virtuoso performances.


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> shame.
> 
> The only great charidee shop fin I got recently was a 1960's 'Great Essayists of the 20 Century'
> 
> ...



I haven't read that, I'll have to remember to get it if I get the chance. I love Le Guin.



the button said:


> £3 from Abe Books, including P&P. Seller in the UK, although listing was on US site. Win.



YAY!!!


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 6, 2008)

the button said:


> £3 from Abe Books, including P&P. Seller in the UK, although listing was on US site. Win.



Hurrah !


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> Hurrah !



It says it's a first edition on the site, with original dustcover 

I'm all excited now


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2008)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Noooooooooooo. Not with Martha in it. She can't act, just grimace!



A bit like Toshiko, then?


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Jul 6, 2008)

ViolentPanda said:


> A bit like Toshiko, then?



Even she was - marginally - better than Martha. 

Martha is just so...dull!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> £2.99 !
> 
> 
> It's beautiful !
> ...



ooh you lucky bastard *jeleous*


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2008)

cesare said:


> It says it's a first edition on the site, with *original dustcover*
> 
> I'm all excited now



two words that make me hard with geek passion


----------



## cesare (Jul 6, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> two words that make me hard with geek passion



Will let you know the condition when it arrives ... could be a good find for cheap secondhand books.


----------



## the button (Jul 6, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> two words that make me hard with geek passion



How about _unclipped_ original dustcover? Does that do anything for you?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 6, 2008)

belboid said:


> a bit disappointing, but still pretty good - no reset (except for Donna), no Master. Rose story finally finished off in a way that means there is never any reason to go back to it.  Doctor Donna was fucking cool, but, as we all know, the light that burns twice as strong burns half as long, and she shone so very very brightly.  could have done with less pseudo-techno babble tho
> 
> was that Miranda Richardson in the trailer? I hope so


This is about right.  (Though my disappointment was that they didn't pick up on the whole Oster Hagen thing, except for the Doctor saying "must be the guy who invented it".  I think they'll return to it).

Remember RTD is still in charge for next year's specials; Moffat doesn't take over until the series proper the following year.

Oh, and that was Dervla Kerwin, not Miranda Richardson...


----------



## Vash (Jul 6, 2008)

Hope Dervla's the new companion.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 6, 2008)

Vash said:


> Hope Dervla's the new companion.


How cool would that be!  

_"Assumpta?  Have you seen my sonic screwdriver?"_


----------



## Gromit (Jul 6, 2008)

Exclusive. The new Doctor and Companion unveiled:


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 6, 2008)

There is not going to be a new Doctor for at least two years.  And if either of those two are involved in any way I'll kill you, all your family, all your friends, and your pets.  And then mess up your living room.


----------



## Awesome Wells (Jul 6, 2008)

Marius said:


> Exclusive. The new Doctor and Companion unveiled:


No deal.


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 6, 2008)

So why was this fella standing next to Tennant then on the 30ft display in Toys 'R' Us with a Sonic Screwdriver if he wasn't the new Doctor, not in the last episode and there is no new Dr Whos till 2010?


----------



## bouncer_the_dog (Jul 6, 2008)

Becuase he's the master ... duh 

lol at Marthas GCSE German... the Daleks were better than her!


----------



## PacificOcean (Jul 6, 2008)

bouncer_the_dog said:


> Becuase he's the master ... duh



I have only watched this series.

Who is the Master and what does he do?  I thought the Doctor was the last of the Timelords?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 6, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> I have only watched this series.
> 
> Who is the Master and what does he do?  I thought the Doctor was the last of the Timelords?


The Master is a bad Time Lord.  The Doctor isn't the last of the Time Lords any longer: he has a daughter.  (Furthermore, the Master might be lurking in a Ring waiting to Rise again!)


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 6, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> I have only watched this series.
> 
> Who is the Master and what does he do?  I thought the Doctor was the last of the Timelords?



The Master and the Doctor are both Timelords, denizens of planet Gallifrey. They both went to the super college of the planet, both genius level. The Master had a rivalry with the Doctor even then. He used to sabotage his experiments etc.

While the Doctor rebelled on the side of good and broke the Gallifreyan High Councils non-involvment policy, the Master rebelled through evil. In many ways he is the Doctors ultimate enemy, the one who can compete on a level playing field. The Doctor cannot get much past his schoolmate.

Of course as baddie he has died enough times to wear out the 12 regenerations (you know where they change into a different person). But he has held on through nefarious means


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jul 6, 2008)

Well I though that was pretty rubbish. Apparently half the people who watched telly last night in the uk were watching Doctor Who.


----------



## scifisam (Jul 6, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> Oi DC, just found this in a charity shop at the weekend !



I have that, also with the original dustjacket, that I also got from a charity shop. 

Abe books is good - it's run by a friend of my uncle. I'm pretty sure I've seen that encyclopaedia at the secondhand bookstall on the South Bank too.


----------



## Yoj (Jul 7, 2008)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah but they'll all die _eventually_. Bit of a shit prophecy telling someone they'll die at some point in the future init? That's right up there with predicting that Wales will not win the next world cup



lol or England!


----------



## andy2002 (Jul 7, 2008)

PacificOcean said:


> So why was this fella standing next to Tennant then on the 30ft display in Toys 'R' Us with a Sonic Screwdriver if he wasn't the new Doctor, not in the last episode and there is no new Dr Whos till 2010?



It was an old display - I saw something very similar in Basildon's Toys 'R' Us before Christmas. And The Master doesn't have a sonic screwdriver, it's a laser screwdriver!


----------



## punkrockfaggot (Jul 7, 2008)

Lets have bets on who watched the episode in style shall we?

Beat watching it in Trafalgar Square at Gay Pride on a 30-foot high screen, surrounded by thousands of drunk gay closet Geeks. 

It seems everyone in that episode was an icon.


----------



## Stigmata (Jul 7, 2008)

I know someone who got a photo with Freema Agyeman at Trafalgar Square. She's wasted on the gays.


----------



## kyser_soze (Jul 7, 2008)

> Of course as baddie he has died enough times to wear out the 12 regenerations



Yeah, but they got round that by him taking the Sash of Rassilon according to this

So, we've got Alex Kingston's bird from the Library episodes to come, the Drs daughter, and I can see Jack, Martha and Mickey coming back at some point...

Wry was _very_ emotional at the end of the ep...


----------



## rapattaque (Jul 8, 2008)

4thwrite said:


> Not the kind of structure i like to be honest.  They activate all the players - his various villains, assistants and fellow travellers - and then the whole thing becomes about how they will fall into place at the end, in some neat conclusion.  A bit like twisting a rubiks cube for three episodes, in the knowledge that its going to end up completed.  Problem is, all that moving the chess pieces round gets in the way of genuine plot and drama.
> 
> Similarly, all the plot devices, like the hand, were far from subtle (heavy handed? ).
> 
> Okay, you realise he's going to survive - as will the earth.  Equally, you know the daleks will come again (didn't actually _see _Davros die).  But within those parameters, they could have produced something less clunky.  Fair enough, its light entertainment and should be fun.  However the revived Dr Who is better than the old ones because it now has serious relationships between the main characters i.e. its more adult.  However in this one, they even seemed to think the emotions had to be brought to a similarly neat conclusion.




Zing.... Spot on.


----------



## rapattaque (Jul 8, 2008)

Did anyone notice the ecstatic look on Captain Jack's face when all the Doc's friends were stood in a circle pushing different levers up and down on the Tardis to get it going again? 

Bloody hilarious!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2008)

yes he looked ready to come in his trousers


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 8, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> Oi DC, just found this in a charity shop at the weekend !



Ha I own that book think my brother bought it before I was born.


----------



## alef (Jul 9, 2008)

The bees really are disappearing 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/30/opinion/30farley.html

Quite strange to learn about world events through Doctor Who.


----------



## rollinder (Jul 11, 2008)

random thought - who/what would win an arm(well hand) wrestling contest - the hand of Omega or the hand of Tennent?


----------



## emanymton (Jul 11, 2008)

Just looked at tomorrow nights TV and soding My Family is on instead.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jul 11, 2008)

emanymton said:


> Just looked at tomorrow nights TV and soding My Family is on instead.


Is that what passes for wholesome entertainment now?  A programme called _Sodding My Family_?

Mary Whitehouse was right all along!  

It's political maddness gone correct!


----------



## cesare (Jul 15, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> Oi DC, just found this in a charity shop at the weekend !



OMG, it arrived today 

That was the best top tip ever.

It's HUGE, with so many illustrations. *Excited squeak*


----------



## Detroit City (Jul 19, 2008)

yea so i watched "Left Turn" last night.   It was ok but why did Rose Tyler look different?  Like she had plastic surgery or something.  And what was that dumb beetle on Donna's back?


----------



## mentalchik (Jul 20, 2008)

cesare said:


> OMG, it arrived today
> 
> That was the best top tip ever.
> 
> It's HUGE, with so many illustrations. *Excited squeak*




It's gorgeous aint it !


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## cesare (Jul 20, 2008)

mentalchik said:


> It's gorgeous aint it !



It's lovely, I'd never have it if you hadn't mentioned it, thank you!


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## Detroit City (Aug 1, 2008)

yea so they're showing the second part of the season finale tonite.   i watched the first half last week....it was all manic and pretty weak.   I don't even know if I should watch the 2nd half tonite.

but out of curiousity i probably will, at least it'll eat up 90 minutes


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## Detroit City (Aug 2, 2008)

well the ending was good but the rest of the episode was total bollocks....


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## DotCommunist (Aug 2, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> well the ending was good but the rest of the episode was total bollocks....



Of course it was total bollocks, its Doctor Who ffs.

How intense was davros though? DETONATE THE RAEALITY BOMB!

and dalek khan, the wierd little mutant thing with its insane utterances. Win.

U is an american and so probably don't know the Dalek backstory. When I saw Davros once again I nearly shit meself with geek happiness


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## Detroit City (Aug 2, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> U is an american and so probably don't know the Dalek backstory.



i used to watch Dr. Who when i was a little kid in england back in late 60's early '70s before your ass was even born....


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## DotCommunist (Aug 2, 2008)

Detroit City said:


> i used to watch Dr. Who when i was a little kid in england back in late 60's early '70s before your ass was even born....



p'shaw dc2. I went back and watched them old skool Doctor Whos just cuase I'm sad enough and a big enough fan.

Come on, tell me you didn't cheer Davros as he did his _really intense_ ranting.


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## Detroit City (Aug 2, 2008)

DotCommunist said:


> Come on, tell me you didn't cheer Davros as he did his _really intense_ ranting.



that clown in the wheelchair?....he was full of shite.   i cannot be intimidated by a handicapper


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