# What's happening at the Living Bah?



## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm hearing all sorts of rumours about Brixton's Favourite Yup Bar closing down and the old landlord coming back into the frame, but can anyone confirm this?

I've heard some other rather more unpleasant stuff, but I won't be posting it up  here.


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## Kanda (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> I'm hearing all sorts of rumours about Brixton's Favourite Yup Bar closing down and the old landlord coming back into the frame, but can anyone confirm this?
> 
> I've heard some other rather more unpleasant stuff, but I won't be posting it up  here.



PM me then


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## quimcunx (Nov 14, 2007)

that's the one beside the satay bar, isn't it?  I quite liked it the last time I was in, a good while ago.  I'd be receptive to a pm though.


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

Sorry! I'm not going to start spreading gossip on this rumour until it gets a bit firmed up.


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## Fuzzy (Nov 14, 2007)

is the same living bar that had all the planning problems a few years ago. didnt the owner or someone pretending to be a chef there register here?


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## Mrs Magpie (Nov 14, 2007)

As I was coming home last night I felt really ill but was cheered almost to the point of euphoria by seeing it boarded up and various bailliffy looking types overseeing it being boarded up and then photographing said boarding-up.....


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## Donna Ferentes (Nov 14, 2007)

Why would they need to photograph it?


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## newbie (Nov 14, 2007)

so that they can't be accused of failing to do their job when it's squatted.


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## bluestreak (Nov 14, 2007)

Donna Ferentes said:
			
		

> Why would they need to photograph it?



Pride in a job well done?


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## Mrs Magpie (Nov 14, 2007)

Fuzzy said:
			
		

> is the same living bar that had all the planning problems a few years ago.


Well they took out the original windows and replaced them with horrid MDF type frames and there was a planning enforcement thingy to put the originals back and it was ignored....There was trouble about these huge air-con things that they installed at the back that kept the residents in the flats behind awake too.....


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## ChrisFilter (Nov 14, 2007)

Weren't there continual allegations of a racist door policy as well? 'Black quotas' and the like?


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## rennie (Nov 14, 2007)

I overheard someone on the train last night saying she's having her birthday party there next week. Poor girl!


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## mccliche (Nov 14, 2007)

they used to have glasses of free smarties and peanuts at the bar which was great

whenever i went with my bird it was always proepr quiet during happy-hour...and then they under-charged us a few times too. prob not a huge surprise it is not lasting. hopefully soemthing good will take its place


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

Mrs Magpie said:
			
		

> As I was coming home last night I felt really ill but was cheered almost to the point of euphoria by seeing it boarded up and various bailliffy looking types overseeing it being boarded up and then photographing said boarding-up.....


Glad to see the Living Bah go, but I would hate to see the premises turn into 'luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever.


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## mccliche (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Glad to see the Living Bah go, but I would hate to see the premises turn into 'luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever.



pizza restaurant or starbucks ?


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## Dan U (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Glad to see the Living Bah go, but I would hate to see the premises turn into 'luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever.



that doesn't leave many options!


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

> Favourite Yup Bar



FOCPMSL...local meat market more like it. You want a Yup bar in Brixton, you've got Zee and that place with the Private members area above it on Clapham Park Road opposite the Tesco. Tongue&Groove & Plan B are more 'Yup bar' than Living...


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## Belushi (Nov 14, 2007)

> they used to have glasses of free smarties and peanuts at the bar which was great



Aye, just dont think about how many unwashed hands have been in the glass before yours


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## Belushi (Nov 14, 2007)

I think I've only been there once, not really my cup of tea.

Weren't there rumours that they limited the number of black customers?


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## CharlieAddict (Nov 14, 2007)

only went there twice.
enjoyed the free peanuts at the bar and the shots of smarties on the tables.
beer was flat.
and the place was mostly empty. dead. crap atmosphere.

if that was a yup bar, then places like mango landing is defo more nathan barley - ie geek pie.


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> Tongue&Groove & Plan B are more 'Yup bar' than Living...


Tongue&Groove has long gone - closed down because of drugs'n'fighting (but no rock'n'roll) - although what's replaced it doesn't look particularly inviting.

There was a *ton* of police streaming into the Living Bah a few weeks ago, btw.


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

Belushi said:
			
		

> ...
> Weren't there rumours that they limited the number of black customers?



Never seemed that way whenever I've been in there of a Saturday nite after a few beers and a couple of pills...


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> ...
> There was a *ton* of police streaming into the Living Bah a few weeks ago, btw.



Again, something you don't see happening in 'yup bars' IME (and I've got the experience )


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## tarannau (Nov 14, 2007)

CharlieAddict said:
			
		

> if that was a yup bar, then places like mango landing is defo more nathan barley - ie geek pie.



Lot of laptops admittedly, but it's more Kids City than Barley territory most of the time. It's one of the few bars I've been to where kids can sometime outnumber the adults 3 to 1.


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## potential (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Glad to see the Living Bah go, but I would hate to see the premises turn into 'luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever.


it was busy, cheap to organise a party there never any trouble...
why are you all gloating at its demise ?
what do you want then it to be boarded up then broken into somewhere the crack dealers can go to smack-up ???
every shop cant all be a free-trade juice-bar come unity-peace and pride black&white unite , drug users help centre ?


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## Crispy (Nov 14, 2007)

Belushi said:
			
		

> I think I've only been there once, not really my cup of tea.
> 
> Weren't there rumours that they limited the number of black customers?


Yes, this was a few years ago now, when it was in the hands of the former owner, Mr Merrett. Thread here: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8252


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

The funniest thing is. the people I've seen in Living are just as representative of local Brixtonians as anywhere else in the area - most of the people I've met in there live locally, there's a good mix of students, office and manual workers etc...I too share the bafflement at the sneery tone toward it and the gloating...


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## Crispy (Nov 14, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> The funniest thing is. the people I've seen in Living are just as representative of local Brixtonians as anywhere else in the area - most of the people I've met in there live locally, there's a good mix of students, office and manual workers etc...I too share the bafflement at the sneery tone toward it and the gloating...


Wasn't always like that, apparently - if you read the thread I linked, you can see the History the place has on these boards.


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## Mrs Magpie (Nov 14, 2007)

It's because of the way the owner treated people locally.


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## Belushi (Nov 14, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> Yes, this was a few years ago now, when it was in the hands of the former owner, Mr Merrett. Thread here: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=8252



Yeah, I thought it must have been on here I heard that.


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> Wasn't always like that, apparently - if you read the thread I linked, you can see the History the place has on these boards.



Hmm, seems that 'history' is the right word. I think the last 2 times I was in there was about 3 years ago (counts...was seeing Shan then...)yup, would've been this time of year 3 years ago, the Xmas before I met Wrysmile...have walked past it loads since and always seen a crowd not at all unlike the people who visit dance bars all over the UK (altho they would generally be the types who would commit the cardinal sins of buying coffee from Starbucks or Costa, possibly drinking in a *CHAIN PUB*, or eat KFC or Macs...)


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> The funniest thing is. the people I've seen in Living are just as representative of local Brixtonians as anywhere else in the area - most of the people I've met in there live locally,


You've got to be joking, right? The Living Bar is famous for out-of-towners taxi-ing in on a Saturday night and then staggering out at 3am and jumping straight into a cab. And there were good reasons why many locals stopped drinking there.

I don't know _anyone_ from Brixton who regularly drank there and the bar was held in more or less universal contempt by many because of the attitude of its owners. Do a search on these boards and you'll see what I mean.


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

Hmm, and when was the last time you were in there ed? 

And I hate to break it to you, but there are about 100,000 other people who live in Brixton and it's environs who _don't_ post on Urban - indeed, probably those same people who eat in Macs, KFC etc regularly. These boards are not the be all and end all of Brixton's population. I mean, how many people regularly visit Zee bar here? Not very many I suspect, but the times I've been in there it's always been busy with people whom, when I have asked them where they're from, are overwhelmingly from...Brixton...

I mean aside from someone who lives in a city using the phrase out-of-towners being the funniest thing ever, and evidence of seriously parochial thinking...


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## potential (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> You've got to be joking, right? The Living Bar is famous for out-of-towners taxi-ing in on a Saturday night and then staggering out at 3am and jumping straight into a cab. And there were good reasons why many locals stopped drinking there.
> QUOTE]
> How dare these outsiders spend money in brixton, shoot em i say !!!
> why dont you just turn the argument around
> ...


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

Thing is, how long ago were those threads put up? 2002? 2003? Like I said, last time I was there, plenty of the folks were local, and there was a pretty even mix of asian, black and white peeps.


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## Belushi (Nov 14, 2007)

Excellent resurrection of one of Urbans classic arguements.

Maybe we could let Anna Key back in just for this one thread


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## potential (Nov 14, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> Thing is, how long ago were those threads put up? 2002? 2003? Like I said, last time I was there, plenty of the folks were local, and there was a pretty even mix of asian, black and white peeps.


you are dead right more of a mix than the albert,  ouch !!!


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## Crispy (Nov 14, 2007)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Excellent resurrection of one of Urbans classic arguements.
> 
> Maybe we could let Anna Key back in just for this one thread



You think he's not reading the thread alrady? 
Reliving past glories, swilling a glass of wiskey, telling all-comers the awe-inspiring tales of old.


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

potential said:
			
		

> How dare these outsiders spend money in brixton, shoot em i say !!!
> why dont you just turn the argument around


Hey, knee jerk boy. Where did I say I had a problem with people coming into Brixton for a night out? Mind you, I do have a problem with people coming into Brixton to buy drugs, and I couldn't help but notice the large amount of dealers hanging around the place, or the increasing amount of fights breaking out there. 

There was a massive incident there about two weeks ago that involved three police vans worth of cops steaming in. And I've heard of some awful other things happening too.

So, no, that's not what I want in my street, thanks. How about you?



			
				potential said:
			
		

> oh them lot there not local they look different why dont you fuck off back to your own country is that what your sayin


Have you any idea what a prick you've just made of yourself by making up all that offensive bullshit?


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

> and I couldn't help but notice the large amount of dealers hanging around the place, or the increasing amount of fights breaking out there.



On coldharbour lane? What next - close KFC and Woolworths cos the density of dealers is higher outside those places as well? There are incidents where pigvans need to be called _all over Brixton_, not just outside Living.

Maybe Mass should be shut down as well - lots of dealers congregate in the peace garden I've found...


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> Thing is, how long ago were those threads put up? 2002? 2003? Like I said, last time I was there, plenty of the folks were local, and there was a pretty even mix of asian, black and white peeps.


Which was when, exactly? I pass right outside the bar just about every single weekend at all hours and have a pretty good idea of the kind of crowd the place attracts. Seen more than a few scuffles recently too.

When was the last time you swung by then?


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> On coldharbour lane? What next - close KFC and Woolworths cos the density of dealers is higher outside those places as well? There are incidents where pigvans need to be called _all over Brixton_, not just outside Living.


Seeing as you're suggesting it's an everyday event, perhaps you could recall the last time you saw three police vans worth of coppers charging into a Brixton bar on a Saturday night?


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## Crispy (Nov 14, 2007)

It may well have been 'upmarket' back when it first opened. 'Big Name' DJ's and all that, guestlists and taxi'd in posh money. But as far as I can make out, these days it's your completely average town center bar/club with loud shit music and pricey drinks. Everywhere has one.


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

3 Saturdays ago, about 11am.

Where I live - Tulse Hill - there's been a shooting, a stabbing at my local, and when I was out buying some munchies last Saturday the whole of the White Hart had turfed out into the street to watch a couple of people kicking off...



> I pass right outside the bar just about every single weekend at all hours and have a pretty good idea of the kind of crowd the place attracts.



What, you go and ask them all where they come from? Whether they've bought some drugs from a local street dealer? 

I know, there are loads of touts and dealers out whenever there's a gig on at the Academy...let's get arsey and close that down as well!


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## potential (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> You've got to be joking, right? The Living Bar is famous for out-of-towners taxi-ing in on a Saturday night and then staggering out at 3am and jumping straight into a cab..
> 
> I don't know _anyone_ from Brixton who regularly drank there .


just because you dont like it i there,  it has brought many a good clean nigth out for locals non-locals...
bringing up one incident is a bit sad eh...  like kyser soyse said living bah on the scale of drug dealing bars in brixton i would say bottom , im right yeah !


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Seeing as you're suggesting it's an everyday event, perhaps you could recall the last time you saw three police vans worth of coppers charging into a Brixton bar on a Saturday night?



In Brixton? I can't, but vans AND a car showed up at the White Hart.

I'm not suggesting it is an everyday occurence...but you seem to be singling out one bar and saying it's uniquely gifted at attracting trouble, the 'wrong sort' of people in Brixton, whereas IME it's little different from 100 other similar places not just in London, but all over the UK.


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## potential (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Seeing as you're suggesting it's an everyday event, perhaps you could recall the last time you saw three police vans worth of coppers charging into a Brixton bar on a Saturday night?


last night at 10-10.30  the peace garden  van pulled up one came up rushcroft rd, two guys ran like forrest gump up brixton hill
so living is a big drug problem in brixton....
yeah your right i dont like tourist drug buyers or local drug buyers...
thats not the argument the living bah is


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## ChrisFilter (Nov 14, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> Thing is, how long ago were those threads put up? 2002? 2003? Like I said, last time I was there, plenty of the folks were local, and there was a pretty even mix of asian, black and white peeps.



Yeah, but mud sticks. It got a name for itself amongst the Brixton 'community' (as opposed to middle-class white kids like us) as a problem and it was never going to lose that name.

I suspect the cheering on this thread is a hangover from a time when Mr Merritt was in charged, and would have been considered a victory against a wanker.


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## Mrs Magpie (Nov 14, 2007)

How do I hate thee, let me count the ways.....

I hate it because when my daughter fainted nearby they tried to charge for the glass of water they were asked for by a first-aider, I hate it because when I went in there and got a pint of guinness half of it was head and they charged well over the odds, I hate it because someone came out of there and tried to sell my young son powders when he was waiting for a bus, I hate it because the owner was boorish and slapped my friend on the arse because she was 'only a waitress', I hate it because when there was a stabbing outside they washed away the evidence from the crime scene before the police arrived (and then called me a liar even though I'd seen it happen with my own eyes), I hate it because friends of mine who attempted to go there were turned away for very iffy reasons, I hate it because they flouted planning laws and enforcement orders.....ooh I could go on but I'm ill today and the effort is tiring me and I'm just glad it's gone.


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

potential said:
			
		

> just because you dont like it i there,  it has brought many a good clean nigth out for locals non-locals...
> bringing up one incident is a bit sad eh...  like kyser soyse said living bah on the scale of drug dealing bars in brixton i would say bottom , im right yeah !


Thing is, you don't know half the story of the place, or why it managed to successfully piss off so many locals, but you'll be hard pressed to find a business or resident along that street that has a good word to say about the place. 

Now why do you think that might be? Any ideas?

Oh, and an apology for that offensive and uncalled for racist slur might be in order too, you know.


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> 3 Saturdays ago, about 11am.


Bit early, no?


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

Sorry, 11pm...


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

Mrs Magpie said:
			
		

> ...ooh I could go on but I'm ill today and the effort is tiring me and I'm just glad it's gone.


I could add a lot more too if I could be arsed.


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## potential (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Thing
> 
> Oh, and an apology for that offensive and uncalled for racist slur might be in order too, you know.


you said outsiders comig into brixton and staggering out straight into cabs at 3am....  whats wrong with that ????   you wernt a local long time ago ?
i turned you argument arount swapping brixton for battersea..
you just think local bars for local people......


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## potential (Nov 14, 2007)

just read your no34 point im off to work....  
local bars for local people, your suggesting


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

potential said:
			
		

> i turned you argument arount swapping brixton for battersea..
> you just think local bars for local people......


Here's what you actually said, you deceitful little shit.


> oh them lot there not local they look different why dont you fuck off back to your own country is that what your sayin


"Look different"...."fuck off back to your own country"...

I do hope you'll have the grace to apologise for making up this offensive, racist drivel.


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## Crispy (Nov 14, 2007)

racist, what? it was a metaphor.


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## newbie (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Glad to see the Living Bah go, but I would hate to see the premises turn into 'luxury lifestyle' apartments/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken or whatever.



I agree that the area doesn't need more upmarket flats, but what's wrong with a nailbar or fried chicken place?


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## CharlieAddict (Nov 14, 2007)

what brixton needs is a decent-cheapy pho restaurant.
or a health store selling organic produces and herbal drugs.




			
				kyser_soze said:
			
		

> Thing is, how long ago were those threads put up? 2002? 2003? Like I said, last time I was there, plenty of the folks were local, and there was a pretty even mix of asian, black and white peeps.



asian?
the only asian people i see when i was there or any pub in brixton is me!
okay, the you got the odd night when there's one other...


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> racist, what? it was a metaphor.


"look different...."  "fuck off back to your own country...."

Sure. Great metaphor.

Not even the slightest suggestion of racism there. Oh no.


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## Yelkcub (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> "look different...."  "fuck off back to your own country...."
> 
> Sure. Great metaphor.
> 
> For racism, that is,



I can see what he was trying to say  - that your appeared to be showing dislike for people not like you/from where you are from.

The old thread linked above gives it some context though.


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## Crispy (Nov 14, 2007)

It was an exageration to make a point. If you thought he was actually calling you a racist, then you either read it wrong, or just took the maximum offence possible on purpose.


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

Yelkcub said:
			
		

> I can see what he was trying to say  - that your appeared to be showing dislike for people not like you/from where you are from.


Could you tell me where I "appeared to be showing dislike for people not like you/from where you are from"?

I only mentioned punters taxiing into the Bar in response to kyser_soze's claim that it's stuffed full of locals. 
Try looking back through the thread.


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> It was an exageration to make a point. If you thought he was actually calling you a racist, then you either read it wrong, or just took the maximum offence possible on purpose.


I don't like people stuffing words in my mouth, especially when it's versed in racist language (and you would agree that a phrase like " "fuck off back to your own country...." is often to be found in the racist repertoire, yes?).

Either way, his 'argument,' sorry, 'metaphor' is bullshit. Oh well.


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## pootle (Nov 14, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> FOCPMSL...local meat market more like it.



Slightly o/t but is just me or does anyone else think the White Horse is a total meat market too.  I wouldn't really mind but it's the pretence that it's something altogether better than that when in fact it wouldn't be out of place in Croydon, imho.

And I like Mango Landin'.  Does that make me a bad person?


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## Yelkcub (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> The Living Bar is famous for out-of-towners taxi-ing in on a Saturday night and then staggering out at 3am and jumping straight into a cab. And there were good reasons why many locals stopped drinking there.
> 
> I don't know _anyone_ from Brixton who regularly drank there and the bar was held in more or less universal contempt by many because of the attitude of its owners. Do a search on these boards and you'll see what I mean.



The identification of 'out-of-towners' coupled with 'good reasons why locals stopped drinking there' seems value laden. If it was not intended so I accept that, but think you should accept how it appears.


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## Yelkcub (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Could you tell me where I "appeared to be showing dislike for people not like you/from where you are from"?
> 
> I only mentioned punters taxiing into the Bar in response to kyser_soze's claim that it's stuffed full of locals.
> Try looking back through the thread.



For clarity my post above was a response to yours here.


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

Yelkcub said:
			
		

> The identification of 'out-of-towners' coupled with 'good reasons why locals stopped drinking there' seems value laden. If it was not intended so I accept that, but think you should accept how it appears.


Mrs M had already offered some of the good reasons why locals stopped drinking there (post #10), as had Chris Filter in post #11 and anyone with local knowledge would know of many other reasons too.


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## Errol's son (Nov 14, 2007)

I would have thought that Living did benefit some of the other establishments on Coldharbour.

I didn't like Living as I am a bit old and the music was too loud and there weren't many seats.

So the few times I went, I ended up leaving and going for a meal in that Ethiopian place.

I would have thought Living brought them a few customers and that noodle shop.


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

pootle said:
			
		

> Slightly o/t but is just me or does anyone else think the White Horse is a total meat market too.  I wouldn't really mind but it's the pretence that it's something altogether better than that when in fact it wouldn't be out of place in Croydon, imho.
> 
> And I like Mango Landin'.  Does that make me a bad person?



On a Saturday night, definitely, but none compare with the splendour that was the Clapham Grand...that was almost like being back home in Essex for me...


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

Errol's son said:
			
		

> I would have thought that Living did benefit some of the other establishments on Coldharbour.


I can honestly say I've never spoken to a local business/resident that's had a good word to say about the place for a wide variety of reasons.

But it's not really appropriate to post up what I've heard here (happy to tell people if I see them in the pub though)


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## newbie (Nov 14, 2007)

so anyway, what's wrong with the building becoming a nailbar or something?


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## twistedAM (Nov 14, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> so anyway, what's wrong with the building becoming a nailbar or something?



Well, surely it should get restored to it original beautiful facade. It's listed isn't it?


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> so anyway, what's wrong with the building becoming a nailbar or something?


Do you think that's a suitable use for a pub that has served the community for over a 100 years?

Why do you think Brixton needs another nailbar?


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## tarannau (Nov 14, 2007)

Well it's not as though we're short of old pub buildings. It's the lack of decent pubs that are the problem.


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## newbie (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Do you think that's a suitable use for a pub that has served the community for over a 100 years?
> 
> Why do you think Brixton needs another nailbar?



you brought nailbars and fried chicken shops into the discussion in order to tell us that you'd 'hate' to see it become one.  I don't understand what you have against them.


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## tarannau (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm actually with Newbie on this one. I'm not the greatest fan of stuck-on nails, but you can't doubt the appeal of Nail Bars (Or fried chicken) places to the local community.

The chances of a nail bar choosing such an overspecced property are, unsurprisingly, low.


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## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm also intrigued by this idea of pubs 'serving' the community. How do they serve the community, other then being places where you can legally buy an addictive and debilitating drug? I wonder how many women have been hit over the years when their old man's come back from the community pub pissed, having spent a week's wages in there?


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> I'm also intrigued by this idea of pubs 'serving' the community. How do they serve the community, other then being places where you can legally buy an addictive and debilitating drug?


You don't think pubs can play a part in a local community's social life?

What a bizarre opinion.


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## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> you brought nailbars and fried chicken shops into the discussion in order to tell us that you'd 'hate' to see it become one.  I don't understand what you have against them.


I've got nothing against nail bars but I fancy Brixton reached saturation point some time ago and would hate to see a struggling business let the fine old building go to rack and ruin as a result. It's been trashed enough as the Living Bar after all.

Same applies to  fried chicken shops and, to be honest, I'm fed up wading through fly-covered, rat attracting discarded chicken bones and plastic boxes and bags every time I leave my house.

I believe as a local resident I'm entitled to hold an opinion on the subject.


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## tarannau (Nov 14, 2007)

Pubs do serve the community though. Much of my family's early life in this country was aided by 'Brian from the pub' and his network of plumbers,painters and repairmen from the local that he could summon at short notice and at low cost.

The same applies now, albeit to a lesser extent. I find the assortment of local workmen, friends and acquaintances built up over the years immensely helpful - there's a ready made support network that you can step into when needed. It's not much I know, but it was kind of reassuring that in the aftermath of the the London bus bombings, everyone left work early and headed straight to the local, w - not just to drink themselves silly, but to check on others and socialise.  It was one of the busiest days seen in there, with the fabled Dunkirk spirit much in evidence. Long may that continue.


----------



## kyser_soze (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> You don't think pubs can play a part in a local community's social life?
> 
> What a bizarre opinion.



I'd like to know _what_ and _how_ they fulfill this function. Other than being places to drink.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> I'd like to know _what_ and _how_ they fulfill this function. Other than being places to drink.


Isn't it blazingly obvious?


----------



## tarannau (Nov 14, 2007)

And you don't think shared experiences and events can help build community Kyser?

I've still massively fond memories of eating bacon sarnies at 9 in the morning whilst watcching the last World Cup in the pub. And of the joyful scenes after beating Argentina - a seemingly never ending conga snaking down Brixton Hill, traffic stopped and smiling, horns a beeping and massive grins all round. 

On the other side,a number of wakes have helped properly see off much loved members of the community.


----------



## newbie (Nov 14, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> I believe as a local resident I'm entitled to hold an opinion on the subject.



of course, I just didn't really understand it.

I'd like to the building taken out of the night economy and brought into the mainstream, daytime, sphere where it can provide decent employment opportunities.  A nailbar is actually quite a good example of just that, although I have to agree it may not be the ideal premises.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> I'd like to the building taken out of the night economy and brought into the mainstream, daytime, sphere where it can provide decent employment opportunities.


Oh come on! Nailbars are hardly big employers providing great, well paid opportunities to the local community.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 14, 2007)

bar work's not much better


----------



## Errol's son (Nov 14, 2007)

Perhaps it should become an estate agency?

Estate agents aren't too badly paid are they?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 14, 2007)

heh


----------



## tarannau (Nov 14, 2007)

What retail shops do by that measure? If anything nail bars should be fairly profitable - hell, constantly maintaining those nails is a crack like addiction.

Equally, quite often nail bars offer 'chairs' on a self employed basis, so there's a degree of flexibiity and incentive for individuals. Surely better than a minimum wage Saturday job down WH Smiths?


----------



## Errol's son (Nov 14, 2007)

There has been a lot of financial investment by private equity firms into nail bars, admittedly the higher end ones found in places like central London and the nicer parts of Manhatten.

So there must be good money in manicures, just maybe not in Brixton.


----------



## editor (Nov 14, 2007)

Errol's son said:
			
		

> Perhaps it should become an estate agency?
> 
> Estate agents aren't too badly paid are they?


That would appear to be what some people want.


----------



## newbie (Nov 14, 2007)

well no, they're hardly the economic salvation for the area.  But then what is?  

IMO the night economy has been little short of a disaster, there's very little left in the way of big employers, except the council.  There's a clear gap between the range of jobs for the well qualified and low skilled, minimum wage, zero prospects.  Let's not look towards jobs that tend to draw in people from elsewhere (the 'creative industry' nonsense) and try to consider the people who want or need to work locally.  Eg people with kids to look after.

What's needed is jobs that are reasonable, decent and honest, that are meaningful to the people that already live round here, and that fulfill a role in this community.  A nailbar does all of those things, in a smallscale way.


----------



## brixtonvilla (Nov 14, 2007)

I've never quite understod the vitriol towards nailbars either. But then Urban's general demographic (note the use of the term _general_, please) don't go in them...


----------



## Dan U (Nov 14, 2007)

brixtonvilla said:
			
		

> I've never quite understod the vitriol towards nailbars either. But then Urban's general demographic (note the use of the term _general_, please) don't go in them...



Me neither. People must use them or they wouldn't be there, just like The Living Bah when people stop, they shut.

A lot of Brixton urbanites drink in The Albert which is hardly representative of Brixtons community either imo.


----------



## co-op (Nov 15, 2007)

kyser_soze said:
			
		

> I'd like to know _what_ and _how_ they fulfill this function. Other than being places to drink.




 
Are you serious?


----------



## Mr Retro (Nov 15, 2007)

tarannau said:
			
		

> Pubs do serve the community though. Much of my family's early life in this country was aided by 'Brian from the pub' and his network of plumbers,painters and repairmen from the local that he could summon at short notice and at low cost.
> 
> The same applies now, albeit to a lesser extent. I find the assortment of local workmen, friends and acquaintances built up over the years immensely helpful - there's a ready made support network that you can step into when needed. It's not much I know, but it was kind of reassuring that in the aftermath of the the London bus bombings, everyone left work early and headed straight to the local, w - not just to drink themselves silly, but to check on others and socialise.  It was one of the busiest days seen in there, with the fabled Dunkirk spirit much in evidence. Long may that continue.



I agree with every point there.


----------



## newbie (Nov 15, 2007)

I don't really disagree either, but it's a shade romantic, isn't it, in a Britain where   the medics are highlighting the rise in alcohol poisoning amongst groups with traditionally low problems- particularly women, the under 30s and children.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

brixtonvilla said:
			
		

> I've never quite understod the vitriol towards nailbars either. But then Urban's general demographic (note the use of the term _general_, please) don't go in them...


"Vitriol"?!

Where?  

I haven't got anything against nailbars at all, but I can't say I'm for pubs being turned into them. Are you?


----------



## tarannau (Nov 15, 2007)

Well, I don't think it's really romantic, more stressing some of the positive community aspect of local boozers. Nobody's denying that there can be negatives too.

FWIW mind, I strongly suspect the rise in alcohol problems with the groups newbie lists couldn't easily be levelled at local pubs, more town centre drinking barns and drinking much cheaper tins/alcohol at home. If anything the days of all day boozing in the local are much in decline.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 15, 2007)

pootle said:
			
		

> Slightly o/t but is just me or does anyone else think the White Horse is a total meat market too.  I wouldn't really mind but it's the pretence that it's something altogether better than that when in fact it wouldn't be out of place in Croydon, imho.
> 
> And I like Mango Landin'.  Does that make me a bad person?



How very dare you smear Croydon is such a way. Please do come and have a pint or five in a selection of very nice places.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 15, 2007)

Although, to be fair TC, you could for a very unpleasant pint in a larger selection of places. 

Croydon's often put down a little too easily, but it's got  a fair bit of nightlife (particularly in terms of clubs) that plumbs the depths of meat market desperation


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> What's needed is jobs that are reasonable, decent and honest, that are meaningful to the people that already live round here, and that fulfill a role in this community.  A nailbar does all of those things, in a smallscale way.


So does a pub.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 15, 2007)

I am rather pleased to see the demise of the Living bar. If the DogAwful went the same way I would be chuffed. 

I would like to see the return of the Coach & Horses pub in the same style it previously had, stuffing coming out of seats, TV with the racing on, a selection of slightly shite but cheap beers, bush weed and sometimes lambs bread for any vaguely regularpunter, and always, but always a lady in the corner drinking half a guniness. 

Ergo i am an old fart.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 15, 2007)

tarannau said:
			
		

> Although, to be fair TC, you could for a very unpleasant pint in a larger selection of places.
> 
> Croydon's often put down a little too easily, but it's got  a fair bit of nightlife (particularly in terms of clubs) that plumbs the depths of meat market desperation




I'm too old for Croydons clubs so you might be right. There are loads and loads of really nice pubs, bars and eateries though. 

I know I fucked up big style in 2001 when I organised a Croydon meetup and never showed. o ) but I may have to do it again but this time with bells and whistles.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

TopCat said:
			
		

> I am rather pleased to see the demise of the Living bar. If the DogAwful went the same way I would be chuffed.


The Dogstar has _massive_ potential to be a brilliant local asset.  With its three floors it could operate as a rehearsal space in the daytimes for bands and perhaps local kids' drama groups,  the top floor could be a meeting space for community groups and the ground floor could be a great venue for bands and perhaps the odd local drama production (Brixton - with its great theatrical history - is still starved of anywhere for actors to perform - it would be great to have the traditional Christmas pantomime restored).

Or, on the other hand, we could have lots of Deejays pumping out the same thing every night.


----------



## newbie (Nov 15, 2007)

tarannau said:
			
		

> Well, I don't think it's really romantic, more stressing some of the positive community aspect of local boozers. Nobody's denying that there can be negatives too.
> 
> FWIW mind, I strongly suspect the rise in alcohol problems with the groups newbie lists couldn't easily be levelled at local pubs, more town centre drinking barns and drinking much cheaper tins/alcohol at home. If anything the days of all day boozing in the local are much in decline.



no argument there, it's the trendy, town center places we're discussing though.


----------



## newbie (Nov 15, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> "I haven't got anything against nailbars at all, but I can't say I'm for pubs being turned into them. Are you?



so why use the word 'hate'?  

and no, pubs do not fulfill the same role as daytime service establishments.


----------



## TopCat (Nov 15, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> The Dogstar has _massive_ potential to be a brilliant local asset.  With its three floors it could operate as a rehearsal space in the daytimes for bands and perhaps local kids' drama groups,  the top floor could be a meeting space for community groups and the ground floor could be a great venue for bands and perhaps the odd local drama production (Brixton - with its great theatrical history - is still starved of anywhere for actors to perform - it would be great to have the traditional Christmas pantomime restored).
> 
> Or, on the other hand, we could have lots of Deejays pumping out the same thing every night.




Blimey that sounds like a plan. 

Fancy fronting it if funding could be secured?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 15, 2007)

I've got £20 here. I'm sure I could scrape a few more together. Anyone with me?


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> so why use the word 'hate'?


Oh come on - don't attempt to twist my words! Just because "I'd hate" to see something happen, that doesn't mean I actually "hate" the person or thing. It's a figure of speech.






			
				newbie said:
			
		

> and no, pubs do not fulfill the same role as daytime service establishments.


They are open in the daytimes, you know, employing staff, serving food to workers and providing a place for old folks to sit down in the warm and have a beer/coffee.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

TopCat said:
			
		

> Blimey that sounds like a plan.


Occasionally, there's been managers at the Dogstar who appeared open to ideas about creative uses for the building, but inevitably they get booted out.

It really could be a great community resource, but it's not going to happen.

The irony is that Cooltan was almost perfect for such uses and offered real community resources (dark rooms/rehearsal space/cafe etc), but that's been flattened into dust now


----------



## newbie (Nov 15, 2007)

I'm not twisting any words at all.  

You brought nailbars into this discussion purely to tell us you'd 'hate' to see the building turned into one.  I'm sorry if you don't think that should be challenged, but given the demographic who work in and use nailbars- predominantly female, black and working class- I wanted to explore quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment.  

If you don't want to be questioned about the words you write then you ought to choose them more carefully.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> You brought nailbars into this discussion purely to tell us you'd 'hate' to see the building turned into one.  I'm sorry if you don't think that should be challenged, but given the demographic who work in and use nailbars- predominantly female, black and working class- I wanted to explore quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment.


You know, some might think that there's a bit of a nasty agenda going on here with the way you're _selectively_ quoting my words. 

Here's my actual comment: "I would hate to see the premises turn into '*luxury lifestyle' apartments*/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken *or whatever*."

Are you going to "explore quite what sort of unconscious factors" were behind me mentioning such an "unnecessarily loaded sentiment" (what?!) as luxury flats too?

Or will you carry on ignoring that one because you're unable to slip in any unpleasant suggestions and slurs implying racism and class? 

Here's a clue for you: I mentioned nail bars because they're one of the fastest growing shops around Brixton. Just like fried chicken fast food stores and luxury flats.


----------



## Errol's son (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> but given the demographic who work in and use nailbars- predominantly female, black and working class



Do blacks use nail bars more than whites?

Are nail bars more popular with the working classes than the middle classes?


----------



## newbie (Nov 15, 2007)

what on earth agenda am I supposed to have?  

if you look back you'll find I agreed with you about luxury flats (few people who aren't property developers or estate agents would disagree, I think) and asked about both nailbars and fried chicken places.  Your objection to fried chicken shops (something about wading through discarded bones) isfair enough but you had, frankly, nothing to justify your (imo) unreasonable targetting of nailbars.  Still haven't, except that they're popular and don't appeal to you.

I'm not looking for an argument, but like I said, if you don't want your words challenged then you ought to be more careful about how you choose them.


----------



## newbie (Nov 15, 2007)

Errol's son said:
			
		

> Do blacks use nail bars more than whites?
> 
> Are nail bars more popular with the working classes than the middle classes?



my observation, yes and probably.  Do you observe differently?


----------



## CharlieAddict (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> I'm sorry if you don't think that should be challenged, but given the demographic who work in and use nailbars- predominantly female, black and working class- I wanted to explore quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment.



i thought most of the nailbars in and around brixton/streatham hill are ran by vietnamese and chinese immigrants...


----------



## tarannau (Nov 15, 2007)

Yep, I'd go with that. 

There customers do tend to be predominantly black mind


----------



## CharlieAddict (Nov 15, 2007)

but the workers aren't


----------



## twistedAM (Nov 15, 2007)

Anyway.... anyone know why it closed? Is it definitely gone for ever or just shut down for a bit?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 15, 2007)

Errol's son said:
			
		

> Do blacks use nail bars more than whites?


In Brixton, overwhelmingly so.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> if you look back you'll find I agreed with you about luxury flats (few people who aren't property developers or estate agents would disagree, I think) and asked about both nailbars and fried chicken places.  Your objection to fried chicken shops (something about wading through discarded bones) isfair enough but you had, frankly, nothing to justify your (imo) unreasonable targetting of nailbars.  Still haven't, except that they're popular and don't appeal to you.


 I'd like you to tell me the results of exploring "quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment" when I mentioned my preference to not have the Coach and Horses replaced by "*luxury lifestyle' apartments*/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken *or whatever*," please.

Can you do that now?


----------



## potential (Nov 15, 2007)

starbucks ?  serves the local community, safe for people to meet up no litter or chicken bones, well used by both female and males alike...  perfect
dont go on to shout me down with independant cafe bar,
cos people who go to starbucks go there cos they know exactly what theyll get...


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

potential said:
			
		

> cos people who go to starbucks go there cos they know exactly what theyll get...


Isn't that just a bit depressing, like when people travel thousands of miles to a foreign culture and then go straight into the nearest McDs.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

Dan U said:
			
		

> A lot of Brixton urbanites drink in The Albert which is hardly representative of Brixtons community either imo.


Does _any_ Brixton pub? How would you accurately "represent Brixton's community" anyway? Since when was it one homogeneous blob?

The Albert reflects one aspect of Brixton's community, as does the Satay Bar, Effra, Beehive etc etc. 

Isn't the beauty of it that we're all from different cultures doing our own  thing and getting along, yet interacting on different levels everyday?


----------



## potential (Nov 15, 2007)

your so right but ?   thats what makes them popular...
i would never go in them personaly but each to there own.
my flat mate used to use them all the time, shed take her laptop down free wireless connection , wouldnt be bothered, was let alone to do her work.
was spotless clean
and could get receipts to claim back work expenses.
there isnt another place in brixton to do that so it would serve the community


----------



## Errol's son (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> my observation, yes and probably.  Do you observe differently?



I think they are also popular with white women as well as wealthy women, whether they be black or white.

I think there are probably differing customer needs though at a nail bar and a black woman, for instance, may want a different type of manicure to a white woman - in much the same way as a black woman may want to visit a hairdresser who specialises in Afro-Carribean cuts.

If you walk past a branch of Nails Inc  http://www.nailsinc.com/?Page=corporate you will see women of all ethnicities having manicures and Nails Inc is the largest nail bar in the world by number of branches.

Due to the number of blacks in Brixton, naturally there is more demand for nail bars that cater to a back clientele.  But the nail bar sector is growing rapidly and is not confined to Brixton solely.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 15, 2007)

potential said:
			
		

> your so right but ?   thats what makes them popular...
> i would never go in them personaly but each to there own.
> my flat mate used to use them all the time, shed take her laptop down free wireless connection , wouldnt be bothered, was let alone to do her work.
> was spotless clean
> ...



What are you on about? There's load of pubs in Brxton - clean ones and all - that offer free wifi?


----------



## newbie (Nov 15, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> I'd like you to tell me the results of exploring "quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment" when I mentioned my preference to not have the Coach and Horses replaced by "*luxury lifestyle' apartments*/nail bar/Timbuktu Fried Chicken *or whatever*," please.
> 
> Can you do that now?


 no, because I didn't challenge you hating 'luxury lifestyle apartments' or 'whatever'?

I'd like you to tell me what sort of agenda I've got.

Can you do that now?


or shall we just move on?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Nov 15, 2007)

Errol's son said:
			
		

> I think they are also popular with white women as well as wealthy women, whether they be black or white.
> 
> I think there are probably differing customer needs though at a nail bar and a black woman, for instance, may want a different type of manicure to a white woman - in much the same way as a black woman may want to visit a hairdresser who specialises in Afro-Carribean cuts.
> 
> ...


 

I know bugger all about nail bars as I barely have any nails   and have never been for a manicure.

Are black womens' nails different to white nails then that more nail bars are needed?


----------



## potential (Nov 15, 2007)

tarannau said:
			
		

> What are you on about? There's load of pubs in Brxton - clean ones and all - that offer free wifi?


yeah pubs,  but it was for her work ? dont think her employer would agree with her spending a couple of hours every other day down the pub...
she needed receipts as well


----------



## newbie (Nov 15, 2007)

Errol's son said:
			
		

> I think they are also popular with white women as well as wealthy women, whether they be black or white.
> 
> I think there are probably differing customer needs though at a nail bar and a black woman, for instance, may want a different type of manicure to a white woman - in much the same way as a black woman may want to visit a hairdresser who specialises in Afro-Carribean cuts.
> 
> ...




yeah, fair enough, although the nearest Nails Inc appears to be in the West End.  If Charlie is right that the local bars are run by people from far Eastern backgrounds then I stand corrected.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> I'd like you to tell me what sort of agenda I've got.


How about you  explain what you meant when you questioned "what sort of unconscious factors" were behind the supposedly "unnecessarily loaded sentiment" of me mentioning that I would rather the Coach and Horses remained a pub instead of following the recent retail/property development trends in Brixton (illustrated with examples of fast food stores, nail bars and luxury apartments)?

And perhaps you might explain why you felt the need to bang on about "the demographic who work in and use nailbars- predominantly female, black and working class" and explain its relevance, and then explain why you're not interested in the 'demographics' of other possible users for the building.


----------



## clandestino (Nov 15, 2007)

The nail bar conversation has been waiting to happen on here for ages IMO. The phrase "hope it doesn't become another nail bar" always crops up whenever one business, whatever it may be, closes down. But it's always struck me that if another nail bar does open, and it stays open, then that'll be because there's demand within the local community. So who are we to deny that?

The parrallel with pubs is a pretty strong one, as both provide a social focal point.

I wonder how many pubs there are in Brixton, and how many nail bars?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 15, 2007)

I'm really glad I don't get into arguments with you, ed.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 15, 2007)

potential said:
			
		

> yeah pubs,  but it was for her work ? dont think her employer would agree with her spending a couple of hours every other day down the pub...
> she needed receipts as well



Sorry, thought you were still bibbling about pubs.

Still, how's about the Lounge, Mango Landing and others. They're quite capable of prining out a receipt.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 15, 2007)

Ritzy has free wifi


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

ianw said:
			
		

> But it's always struck me that if another nail bar does open, and it stays open, then that'll be because there's demand within the local community. So who are we to deny that?


I could be wrong, but I think they often get a low rent deal (like the shop opposite me) and, of course, their overheads are a lot, lot lower than a pub.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> I'm really glad I don't get into arguments with you, ed.


Don't mind lively arguments, but really don't like underhand slurs suggesting there's some sort of "unconscious" racism or whatever going on.

Ianw has more or less mentioned the same thing as me about nail bars, so I wonder if newbie will be along to "explore quite what sort of unconscious factors were behind such an unnecessarily loaded sentiment."


----------



## newbie (Nov 15, 2007)

you made what I thought was a contentious statement, and I challenged it and I've explained why. Since then you've been blustering about my agenda because it's quite obvious that you can't supply any real reason for singling out nailbars as an example of places you 'hate'. It's also obvious that you can't spell out my agenda because I haven't got one, I simply responded to your words on the screen in front of me.


----------



## Yossarian (Nov 15, 2007)

People getting their nails done still have a hand free to drink with - how about turning the place into "The Nail Bar"?


----------



## potential (Nov 15, 2007)

tarannau said:
			
		

> Sorry, thought you were still bibbling about pubs.
> 
> Still, how's about the Lounge, Mango Landing and others. They're quite capable of prining out a receipt.


that would have been great, my friend stayed ere with me for a few weeks,
and every so often would work at home, and asked me if there was somewhere she could work in peace etc and asked of there was a starbucks or coffee shop where she could walk down use the phone and get e-mail cofirmations....  but i didnt know any so she had to go to clapham or somewhere...   that shouldnt be so , brixton should sevre every demographic imo


----------



## clandestino (Nov 15, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> I could be wrong, but I think they often get a low rent deal (like the shop opposite me) and, of course, their overheads are a lot, lot lower than a pub.



Even so, I'd rather see a thriving nail bar serving the local community in the Living building, than a crappy bar for postcode tourists. If Living was replaced by a nail bar, I'd be quite happy. I'd rather walk past that than what was essentially a gated pub.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 15, 2007)

potential: The Ritzy cafe would have been ideal.


----------



## clandestino (Nov 15, 2007)

Yossarian said:
			
		

> People getting their nails done still have a hand free to drink with - how about turning the place into "The Nail Bar"?



You're on a roll this week! Two posts that have made me laugh out loud.


----------



## twistedAM (Nov 15, 2007)

ianw said:
			
		

> Even so, I'd rather see a thriving nail bar serving the local community in the Living building, than a crappy bar for postcode tourists. If Living was replaced by a nail bar, I'd be quite happy. I'd rather walk past that than what was essentially a gated pub.




a gated pub?? was Living that bad in recent times? I know it's not yours or my pint of beer but it was just another cattlemarket bar and everywhere has them


----------



## Dan U (Nov 15, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Does _any_ Brixton pub? How would you accurately "represent Brixton's community" anyway? Since when was it one homogeneous blob?
> 
> The Albert reflects one aspect of Brixton's community, as does the Satay Bar, Effra, Beehive etc etc.
> 
> Isn't the beauty of it that we're all from different cultures doing our own  thing and getting along, yet interacting on different levels everyday?



well yes exactly.

but to read some of the reactions on here to how Brixtons community is changing you wouldn't think so.

the Living Bah serves (did serve?!) a Brixton demographic, one a lot of people on here don't like, but one that does exist and is growing.


----------



## newbie (Nov 15, 2007)

Dan U said:
			
		

> the Living Bah serves (did serve?!) a Brixton demographic, one a lot of people on here don't like, but one that does exist and is growing.



part of the reason it's growing is that there have been conscious decisions to build Brixton as a night destination for young people.  The first I remember of it was when the police sponsored the reopening of the Atlantic as a completely different place, serving a very different clientelle.  Since then there's been a gradual increase in the clubs and other initiatives which have acted as something of a magnet, both for people to travel to for the evening and to move into the area.

That's gone hand in hand with all sorts of changes- most notably escalating property prices and rents, but also the decline of the market and a change in the profile of those who live here.  Personally I'm a long way from convinced this is all a good thing, and while it would be silly to claim that all change is bad, or that all change is the result of the popularity of Brixton partytown, I rather doubt I'm alone in wanting to see that sector of the local economy shrink in importance.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 15, 2007)

I don't really see the issue of Brixton 'night economy' as particularly relevant to rising property and land values.

After all Streatham, once the supposed 'west end of the South' has been shedding its hefty number of night venues swiftly over recent years, whilst property values have risen every bit as quickly, if not quicker than Brixton, in recent times.

Not convinced the night economy in Brixton has led to the downturn of the market either. Sadly, the reasons for that seem more widespread.


----------



## Dan U (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> That's gone hand in hand with all sorts of changes- most notably escalating property prices and rents, but also the decline of the market and a change in the profile of those who live here.  Personally I'm a long way from convinced this is all a good thing, and while it would be silly to claim that all change is bad, or that all change is the result of the popularity of Brixton partytown, I rather doubt I'm alone in wanting to see that sector of the local economy shrink in importance.



no i doubt you are tbh. i don't like a lot of it myself.

but this is what happens in a lot of areas. a run down area attracts squatters/cheap rentals, they make it seen as 'edgy and cool', licenses are easy to come by for late venues, a bit of an alternative scene grows, people are attracted to living in the area. some years later you have the situation Brixton is finding itself in now regarding the venues/nightlife etc

I was in Bristol at the weekend and the same thing is happening to St Pauls. Developers are sniffing round it keen to cash in on the 'edginess' the conflation of poverty and squatters/cheap rents has bought.


----------



## newbie (Nov 15, 2007)

No, I'm not wholly convinced and there are multiple factors at play.  The shifting age profile is happening all across London, although it is a little more pronounced locally.  That's partially because the schools have been so poor, which serves to drive out those with kids, but it's also, I think, partially because young people seek to bve in and around Brixton because it's an attractive place to play, but not work, in.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> No, I'm not wholly convinced and there are multiple factors at play.  The shifting age profile is happening all across London, although it is a little more pronounced locally.  That's partially because the schools have been so poor, which serves to drive out those with kids, but it's also, I think, partially because young people seek to bve in and around Brixton because it's an attractive place to play, but not work, in.



It's always been a little like that, well at least for 30 years or more - a leading reason for the migration outwards by the original commonwealth migrants and others.  And before that it was a leading theatre and shopping district, hardly a restful place.

Perhaps the widespread rise in property values and home ownership fization has helped accelerate the process mind.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 15, 2007)

Home ownership? Buy-to-let more like. So many houses are being sliced up into 3 flats for rent.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 15, 2007)

Well, someone still owns the houses as an investment mind. It's just not the people living in them..


----------



## Errol's son (Nov 15, 2007)

Minnie_the_Minx said:
			
		

> I know bugger all about nail bars as I barely have any nails   and have never been for a manicure.
> 
> Are black womens' nails different to white nails then that more nail bars are needed?



Black women often want a different style to white women.

But there is room in the market for more nail bars whether they tend to serve a predominantly white clientele, a predominantly black clientele or a mixed clientele.

They are opening up across the country, not just in Brixton...

I think it is to do with the growth in Spas etc... a lot of people are spending more on "pampering" themselves.


----------



## quimcunx (Nov 15, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> Home ownership? Buy-to-let more like. So many houses are being sliced up into 3 flats for rent.



edited to correct. 

When I bought my flat 8 years ago, 13 out of 16 flats were owner occupied. Now 6 or 7 are owner occupied.


----------



## Dan U (Nov 15, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> Home ownership? Buy-to-let more like. So many houses are being sliced up into 3 flats for rent.



yes. still a lot of older Brixton residents cleaned up money wise doing this, so good luck to them tbh.

someone mentioned Streatham earlier and how it hadn't gone the way of Brixton, i'd suggest it kept a lot more of it's housing stock intact as houses.


----------



## isvicthere? (Nov 15, 2007)

potential said:
			
		

> every shop cant all be a free-trade juice-bar come unity-peace and pride black&white unite , drug users help centre ?



Your farrago of lazy prejudice omts "tree huggers". A wasted opportunity!


----------



## isvicthere? (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> you made what I thought was a contentious statement, and I challenged it and I've explained why. Since then you've been blustering about my agenda because it's quite obvious that you can't supply any real reason for singling out nailbars as an example of places you 'hate'. It's also obvious that you can't spell out my agenda because I haven't got one, I simply responded to your words on the screen in front of me.



Give it a rest with the "hate" thing FFS!

Unless you really believe the following two sentences mean *the same thing*:-

"I hate you."

"I hate you taking things out of context."

The first one is an example of what you are accusing the editor of. The second is an example of what he has actually said.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

newbie said:
			
		

> Personally I'm a long way from convinced this is all a good thing, and while it would be silly to claim that all change is bad, or that all change is the result of the popularity of Brixton partytown, I rather doubt I'm alone in wanting to see that sector of the local economy shrink in importance.


Back to how it was when, exactly? 1800?

Brixton's been famous for its bustling nightlife since Victorian times, with a host of  huge entertainment venues like the Empress, Brixton Theatre, Academy and Palladium accommodating vast evening crowds.

Between 1910 and 1915 there was no less than nine cinemas in Brixton, with a far bigger selection of now-lost central pubs (Bradys, Black Horse, Queens, Angel) offering attracting night time drinkers.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

isvicthere? said:
			
		

> Give it a rest with the "hate" thing FFS!
> 
> Unless you really believe the following two sentences mean *the same thing*:-
> 
> ...


Amen to to that.


----------



## Stobart Stopper (Nov 15, 2007)

Errol's son said:
			
		

> Do blacks use nail bars more than whites?
> 
> Are nail bars more popular with the working classes than the middle classes?


We have loads of nail bars in this area, they are everywhere, 3 within a 5 minutes' walk of our house alone. I think they are more popular with the working classes rather than people on higher incomes eg £40k-plus.
Don't know about black people using them more, we don't have that many black people in this area so it's hard to tell.


----------



## editor (Nov 15, 2007)

Brixton was an entertainment 'hub' for Sharon Osbourne in the 50s too!



> In the fifties and early sixties, Brixton, south of the Thames, was where all the vaudeville artists lived, comedians, singers, ventriloquists, acrobats. Entertainers. Pre-TV, vaudeville was the only entertainment there was for ordinary people, and with the Brixton Empress and the Camberwell Palace being less than a mile away, Brixton was the hub
> http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15388252/


----------



## Dan U (Nov 16, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Brixton was an entertainment 'hub' for Sharon Osbourne in the 50s too!



i have 3 generations of family born/lived in brixton area and left post war after my great nans pharmacy got bombed out.

my Nan reliably informed me before she died that Brixton was a fantastic and entertaining place to be pre and post WW2.

sadly she died before i was aware enough of the area/history to quiz her more but my Mum, who was born in a house in Brixton in 1947 spoke fondly of the families memories.

i'd loved to have shown my Nan your old picture archive as it visualises her oral history. if that makes sense


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2007)

Off topic a tad, I heard that Hootenany was also briefly closed down a couple of days ago over the same 'tax issues' wot has done for the Living Bah.


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2007)

Oh, and here's how the Bah! looked today:

















It's a striking piece of architecture, you know.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Nov 16, 2007)

yeah, ive aways liked that building


----------



## bluestreak (Nov 16, 2007)

It's a beautiful building.  I've never been in it though.  I'd love to see it turned into a nice local.

Also, this thread is everything I love and hate about urban!


----------



## editor (Nov 16, 2007)

It's a shame that we only got to see how attractive the Green Man was when they scraped away the paintwork to reveal a gorgeous pub frontage  - just as it's being turned into anything but a pub.


----------



## Crispy (Nov 16, 2007)

I know it's not Brixton, but the pub at the end of the raod where I work has had all the paint scraped off to reveal lovely orange tiles. It's going to be a coffee shop, but that's better than a moulding closed pub. Hooray for tiles.


----------



## Skim (Nov 16, 2007)

What is the Green Man being turned into? I can see there are entrances to flats above, but what about the pub?

Barney's cafe (opposite the Green Man) has had some work done to its frontage, to reveal a couple of old cigarette adverts... they look great.




			
				Crispy said:
			
		

> Hooray for tiles.



Oh yes – there are some lovely pub tiles around. I was thinking about doing a photo collection, I see them all the time.


----------



## potential (Nov 16, 2007)

the green man pub loughborough jtn is georgeous...
does anyone know what the pub bits going to be ?
anything positive would be much needed for the area...


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 16, 2007)

a law / legal advice centre (at least that was the original idea) but i poked my nose through the windows yesterday and don't see how they'd fit all the staff in and cope with private / interview rooms in such as small space (unless they've dug out the cellar). That combined the new LSC contracting practices might make it hard to manage.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Nov 16, 2007)

If I had my way the coach'n'horses (let's forget it was ever called living, so 90s) would be transformed into a dark gothic pub, just what the area needs, somewhere for all the metal kids to goto b4 the big bands play at the academy.  The name?.......perhaps the 'The Dying & The Dead'


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## clandestino (Nov 16, 2007)

DJWrongspeed said:
			
		

> If I had my way the coach'n'horses (let's forget it was ever called living, so 90s) would be transformed into a dark gothic pub, just what the area needs, somewhere for all the metal kids to goto b4 the big bands play at the academy.  The name?.......perhaps the 'The Dying & The Dead'




The Intrepid Fox, Brixton!


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Nov 17, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Back to how it was when, exactly? 1800?


Here's Coldharbour Lane (then Cool Arbour Lane if the contemporary account regarding the Camberwell Beauty Butterfly that I have in a book about butterflies in the London area is correct) in 1750. The London Encyclopedia says that when it was still rural it was marshy and popular for duck shooting.

http://landmark.lambeth.gov.uk/display_page.asp?section=landmark_fullsize&id=89


----------



## Choc (Nov 17, 2007)

so does this thread actually reveal the reason why the living bar got closed?

(i am too bored to read through the arguments).

last thing i heard what that they mainly had albaninan managers who were not so good at running tings (but i was told that by a former manager who was still pissed off with them). also loads of cocaine available.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 17, 2007)

Sorry had to skip some of these posts as its a long thread.

  As one of the main people along with Anna Key who stopped Larry getting the old bike shop as a bar and had run ins with him about the Dog Star(not now in his ownership) perhaps I can say a few things.Brixton Cycles were well liked and it was the last straw that they got turfed out of CHL for someone like Larry.It was symbolic of what was potentially happening to Brixton.At the time it looked like well liked businesses would be pushed out by the like of Larry to turn central Brixton into one big "entertainment" area.At the time the Council was into all the ideas of "creative industries" "cultural capital" and the like.Larry payed lip service to this.Then once he got hold of a place just turned it into a late night noisy club. 

 Larry first came to Brixton on the back of Brixton Challenge.This was mainly government money to regenerate Brixton and BC put a lot of money into the Atlantic/Dogstar.At the time Larry was seen as an enterprising businessman who the Council liked.The whole way he dealt with local people was dismissive and arrogent.

 As for the Living bar he damaged one of the better looking buildings in CHL.It soon looked crap and has done for ages.He also caused a lot of late night noise nuisance.

 Im not against change in Brixton or a variety of places to go.I use the Lounge,Phoenix and Ritzy bar.However Larrys business activities and his attempt to build an "entertainment" empire in Brixton was not good for the area


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 17, 2007)

Choc said:
			
		

> so does this thread actually reveal the reason why the living bar got closed?
> 
> He has other bars in London.If I remember correctly one of his business practises was to run a bar under 2 companies.Load a lot of debts under one company let that go under leaving his creditors with little or nothing and then swan off somewhere else.As far as I know the Living bar closed with a lot of debts.Knowing Larry I doubt whether thats the end of his "career" in the "entertainment" industry.I was not surprised to see it closed -its par for the course for him.He used to have the Dogstar but it closed for similar reasons.


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 17, 2007)

Choc said:
			
		

> also loads of cocaine available.




   What a surprise


----------



## Gramsci (Nov 17, 2007)

By the way Urban75 played an important role in helping to stop Larry get hold of the old bike shop.So all those posting here knocking U75 people as not "representive" etc could bear that it mind.I think it would have been a disaster for CHL and Brixton if he had got hold of the old bike shop.The campaign to stop him also made local Councillors and Lambeth Council realise that Brixton was not just bars.

 I dont see Larry as "representive" other than he comes from a well off business family who can bail him out.


----------



## Cowley (Nov 20, 2007)

So those horrible "Racist Cokeheads" have been run out of town?  

Good riddance to bad rubbish I say....I'm totally happy that god forsaken dive has closed down. 

I hope Larry and his cronies f*ck off back to Clapham or wherever they came from.


----------



## elpres (Nov 28, 2007)

Not sure if I count as one of Lawrence's "cronies" but I have been promoting Trunkafunk (last Sat of the month) there for three years, so I am sad to see the place close down.

There seems to be a lot of vitriol on this site towards Lawrence, late night bars and er... Clapham! Lawrence is not my favourite person for various reasons, but he's just a businessman. 

I haven't read all the posts on this thread as there's way too many but I like to think the night we ran was friendly with a good mix of people. I can't speak for racism on the door, though I was never told of any issues. It is quite a white club, but that may be in part the type of music we play (electro house) which seems to attract that sort of crowd.

The place attracts a lot of people from outside of Brixton in part because promoters like myself get in DJs from the surrounding area. I'm Kiwi and I guess the people I associate with tend to be antipodean and yes, a lot of them live in Clapham! I think someone mentioned people jumping straight into cabs at 3am, well like it or not Brixton at that hour can be a little scary, especially for girls. I think a cab's the sensible option.

I find it weird how Londoners get so parochial about their corner, Clapham's 5 mins up the road! I lived in Brixton for a few years and now live in East Dulwich and it's the same everywhere - everyone's worried their corner of the city is being gentrified, swamped by outsiders etc. etc. I think it reflects on the English character.

'Nuff said from me. Living was a fabulous place for a boozy night out. The place was a bit dodgy and needed some money invested in it. I wouldn't trust the owner, but then I wouldn't trust anyone in that industry! I've promoted in a few clubs and they're all the same, Living's no different. Hopefully something decent replaces it - not a Starbucks!


----------



## LDR (Nov 28, 2007)

elpres said:
			
		

> The place attracts a lot of people from outside of Brixton in part because promoters like myself get in DJs from the surrounding area. I'm Kiwi and I guess the people I associate with tend to be antipodean and yes, a lot of them live in Clapham! I think someone mentioned people jumping straight into cabs at 3am, well like it or not Brixton at that hour can be a little scary, especially for girls. I think a cab's the sensible option.


Well said.

I used to live in Battersea/Clapham and am also a Kiwi.  I only come to Brixton to party and that's only 'cause many of my mates are there.  I have done for years.  I jump into a cab at the end of the night too.

If people think that makes me a bad person they can go fuck themselves.  I still sleep at night.  

Fuck me!  I'm glad I've got that off my chest.  I've been wanting to say that for years.


----------



## editor (Nov 28, 2007)

elpres said:
			
		

> Not sure if I count as one of Lawrence's "cronies" but I have been promoting Trunkafunk (last Sat of the month) there for three years, so I am sad to see the place close down.


There's a 'For Sale' sign outside the place now so it doesn't look like you'll be getting your club night back any time soon.


----------



## Cowley (Nov 28, 2007)

> I haven't read all the posts on this thread as there's way too many but I like to think the night we ran was friendly with a good mix of people. I can't speak for racism on the door, though I was never told of any issues. It is quite a white club, but that may be in part the type of music we play (electro house) which seems to attract that sort of crowd.
> 
> The place attracts a lot of people from outside of Brixton in part because promoters like myself get in DJs from the surrounding area. I'm Kiwi and I guess the people I associate with tend to be antipodean and yes, a lot of them live in Clapham! I think someone mentioned people jumping straight into cabs at 3am, well like it or not Brixton at that hour can be a little scary, especially for girls. I think a cab's the sensible option.



And many of us are glad your gone. Maybe you won't have trouble walking back from your gigs in Clapham or Battersea or wherever Merritt has set up his next venture.

We wouldn't want you "precious things" walking the mean streets of big bad Brixton.


----------



## elpres (Nov 28, 2007)

Cowley said:
			
		

> And many of us are glad your gone. Maybe you won't have trouble walking back from your gigs in Clapham or Battersea or wherever Merritt has set up his next venture.
> 
> We wouldn't want you "precious things" walking the mean streets of big bad Brixton.




Talk about angst! I lived in Brixton for a number of years and really like the place. I also think Clapham has it's good points. However, I know that my girlfriend feels threatened by the low level harassment one gets in Brixton, particularly around the corner outside KFC and the cash machines. She also gets comments that a) I don't experience as a male and b) One doesn't get in other parts of town. This was part of the reason we moved out of the area. I don't buy into the notion that many Londoners have of Brixton being a gun-ridden hell hole, but it is a place that has particular problems.


----------



## potential (Nov 28, 2007)

Cowley said:
			
		

> And many of us are glad your gone. Maybe you won't have trouble walking back from your gigs in Clapham or Battersea or wherever Merritt has set up his next venture.
> 
> We wouldn't want you "precious things" walking the mean streets of big bad Brixton.


local pubs for local people eh !  er last time i looked brixton was, and still is a high crime area ?  what are you trying to say,  go back to where you belong ?
i do hope you get abuse next time your, meeting your chums somewhere else other than brixton ???   piss off to where you belong....    different strokes for different folks, or dont you like different cultures....


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2007)

If the perception of danger and crime is as high as some people are stating, it rather makes me wonder why people bother coming into Brixton at all. 

Why is that, do you think?


----------



## Yossarian (Nov 29, 2007)

The Academy?


----------



## Yossarian (Nov 29, 2007)

LDR said:
			
		

> I used to live in Battersea/Clapham and am also a Kiwi.  I only come to Brixton to party and that's only 'cause many of my mates are there.  I have done for years.  I jump into a cab at the end of the night too.



Hang on - you sometimes go from one area of a big city to another for the nights out, and you get a *taxi* home as well? I think you must be the Antichrist...


----------



## LDR (Nov 29, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> If the perception of danger and crime is as high as some people are stating, it rather makes me wonder why people bother coming into Brixton at all.
> 
> Why is that, do you think?


It's a middle finger in the face of the criminals. We're not going to let them get to us.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2007)

Yossarian said:
			
		

> The Academy?


Err.. and what about the central Brixton/Coldharbour Lane venues such as the Living Bah (RIP), Dogstar and the Tongue and Cocaine (RIP), Mass and now Dex? That's what we're talking about after all.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2007)

LDR said:
			
		

> It's a middle finger in the face of the criminals. We're not going to let them get to us.


Not surprising if you're cuddled up in a cab!


----------



## 5t3IIa (Nov 29, 2007)

I live in Clapton - am I not allowed to come to Offline then?


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2007)

5t3IIa said:
			
		

> I live in Clapton - am I not allowed to come to Offline then?


I've absolutely no idea why you're asking me that. Perhaps you could explain your point? (not that I suspect you've got any real interest in coming to Offline anyway).


----------



## 5t3IIa (Nov 29, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> I've absolutely no idea why you're asking me that. Perhaps you could explain your point? (not that I suspect you've got any real interest in coming to Offline anyway).




The post was directed at anyone who has an issue with people from outside Brixton coming in, availing themsleves of your special facilities then fucking off again, pissed, in the middle of the cold dark night, in not the most salubrous area of town. Don't get me wrong - my bit isn't terribly salubriuous either.

Of course I am interested in Offline - the reason I don't go often is cuz it's in fucking Brixton.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 29, 2007)

Brixton's not particularly salubrious, but it actually feels pretty safe late at night. There are plenty of people around at all hours in the centre and very little alcohol related violence. Aside from low level harrassment - mainly beggars and coltsfoot sellers (and some unpleasantly direct/desperate men) - I've experienced little danger in 30 odd years. Less well lit side streets mat be a different story

I suspect people feel more threatened by Brixton's reputation and street population than the actual record of violence to visitors. It would't surprise me, for example, to find out that you're far more likely to be attacked post pub-hours in the centre of Croydon or Kingston.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Nov 29, 2007)

And you might not fancy weaving, sloshed, up Murder Mile on a cold dark night instead of getting a cab home. But I live there and I know it and it's OK 

My point, made badly, was that posters are saying that Brixton is only for Brixtonians and that's crap.


----------



## mccliche (Nov 29, 2007)

tarannau said:
			
		

> It would't surprise me, for example, to find out that you're far more likely to be attacked post pub-hours in the centre of Croydon or Kingston.



i was in croydon last friday night, the amount of police on the streets was far above that in brixton. def i would say brixton would be safer than croydon


----------



## ovaltina (Nov 29, 2007)

mccliche said:
			
		

> brixton would be safer than croydon



I feel that way too, and avoid the suburbs wherever possible. If you stick to the main roads in Brixton and politely decline the various offers of drugs made to you, you're generally ok.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2007)

5t3IIa said:
			
		

> My point, made badly, was that posters are saying that Brixton is only for Brixtonians and that's crap.


It should be noted that the Living Bah was quite exceptional in the way it pissed off local residents and businesses alike for a wide variety of reasons though.


----------



## tarannau (Nov 29, 2007)

You're right, Murder Mile's far more desolate than Coldharbour Lane on a weekend/day night. Brixton's never struck me as that threatening in recent years - I'm not particularly perturbed by beggars and fake drugs sellers, ,nor am I disconcerted by the racial mix- and there's a remarkable tolerance for wibbling, pissed up people in the early hours. Compared to places like Stonebridge Park it feels downright safe.

Not sure if there's really a belief that 'Brixton is only for Brixtonians' - ignore Cowley of course, he's an arse - but more that pubs and services in the area should at least offer some nights and an atmosphere that feel inclusive to the the varied population of the area. Not every night perhaps, but it's good as if it doesn't feel as though a local bar is unwelcoming and more than a little discriminatory to the majority of people living nearby ime.


----------



## Yossarian (Nov 29, 2007)

editor said:
			
		

> Err.. and what about the central Brixton/Coldharbour Lane venues such as the Living Bah (RIP), Dogstar and the Tongue and Cocaine (RIP), Mass and now Dex? That's what we're talking about after all.



Yeah, those places too.


----------



## hipipol (Nov 29, 2007)

*Under manners*

Its only the REALLY pissed Cl'hamistas that get lairly in Brixton
They is all careful cause them don wan nah Bwad Bwoy pushing their Mac10 up their noses

It would never fucking happens but if it keeps em honest, jump in yer cab, dont be sick here, surely there has to be some benefit from the external perception of edginess?



PS I know I am posting here as an ex Brixtonian (actually I was ALWAYS an undercover Peckhamista  HA HA!!!!! ) but it was a fucking nightmare all the peeps that din't live there pissing on the street, buying ansd selling drugs - yep, even the dealers reckon its too much!!! fuck that eh?


----------



## Crispy (Nov 29, 2007)

Just some standup urinals at the end of my street would be nice.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2007)

To be honest, the only time I ever saw drunken argy bargy regularly spilling out into the street in Brixton was... outside the Living Bah.

With its dodgy decking jutting right out into the street, and the dealers, hangers-on and hustlers all wedged into the remaining tiny strip of pavement, it was always an unpleasant place to walk past late at night.

Unless you're into random jostling and being "YO YO!'d" of course.

I have to say I saw some hilarious rip offs outside the Bah too. We watched one pair of muppets give £50 to a dealer who said he'd "be back in 5 mins with their stuff" and tried to stifle our laughs as he wandered off, ne'er to return.


----------



## editor (Nov 29, 2007)

Crispy said:
			
		

> Just some standup urinals at the end of my street would be nice.


And on Elelectric Avenue. And Coldharbour Lane. And in Tate Gardens. 

Etc etc etc


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Nov 29, 2007)

mccliche said:
			
		

> i was in croydon last friday night, the amount of police on the streets was far above that in brixton. def i would say brixton would be safer than croydon


Yeah, my son and his girlfriend and friend were randomly beaten up as they waited for a bus in Croydon. His friend's skull was hairline fractured and my son had a suspected broken jaw (thankfully not as it turned out). They were kids waiting for a bus beaten up by men of about 30 

eta this was about 3 years ago


----------



## Cowley (Nov 29, 2007)

> Talk about angst! I lived in Brixton for a number of years and really like the place. I also think Clapham has it's good points. However, I know that my girlfriend feels threatened by the low level harassment one gets in Brixton, particularly around the corner outside KFC and the cash machines. She also gets comments that a) I don't experience as a male and b) One doesn't get in other parts of town. This was part of the reason we moved out of the area. I don't buy into the notion that many Londoners have of Brixton being a gun-ridden hell hole, but it is a place that has particular problems.



Angst? Oh purrrrrrrrrlease. 

Each to their own I suppose though.


----------



## Cowley (Nov 29, 2007)

> local pubs for local people eh ! er last time i looked brixton was, and still is a high crime area ? what are you trying to say, go back to where you belong ?
> i do hope you get abuse next time your, meeting your chums somewhere else other than brixton ??? piss off to where you belong.... different strokes for different folks, or dont you like different cultures....



Your actually Lawrence aren't you?   

My issue isn't with people from outside coming in, people are free to go where they please, I do.

My issue is with how a particular establishment was run, an establishment that was previously in the centre of a place I've spent most of my years living in.

For me this establishment was run in such a way that it only catered for a certain type of "clientele" whilst in the process of excluding many what I would describe as "local" people.

I'm happy this establishment has closed down, it didn't do anything good for the local community, in fact it caused more damage than good.

Please try and read my posts before you jump into a tirade about cultures and the like because your way off the mark with what you've said.

Thanks for reading.


----------



## Cowley (Nov 29, 2007)

> ignore Cowley of course, he's an arse


----------



## hipipol (Dec 2, 2007)

Ignore Anus

HaHaHaHa!!!!!!!

yep, coating getting time I suspect.........


----------



## cockneyrebel (Jan 12, 2008)

Can't work out why someone else doesn't just buy the bar and run it on the same format. It always seemed to be busy so must make money.

I think it was the only place in Brixton that played cheesy 80s music.

To be honest Brixton seems to be going a bit down hill at the moment, a few people have said that. No offence to people who live there but I find Brixton quite depressing. Loadsa drug dealers, smack heads, a big homeless problem and loads of people with mental health problems wandering around. Don't find it threatening just a bit of a downer.

The Goose must be one of the grimest pubs I know, bloody cheap though.


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## Brixton Hatter (Jan 14, 2008)

wouldn't it be nice if someone reopened the living bah as a traditional boozer


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## editor (Jan 14, 2008)

Brixton Hatter said:
			
		

> wouldn't it be nice if someone reopened the living bah as a traditional boozer


Those days are gone, I'm afraid.


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## co-op (Jan 14, 2008)

Mrs Magpie said:
			
		

> Yeah, my son and his girlfriend and friend were randomly beaten up as they waited for a bus in Croydon. His friend's skull was hairline fractured and my son had a suspected broken jaw (thankfully not as it turned out). They were kids waiting for a bus beaten up by men of about 30
> 
> eta this was about 3 years ago



I know Croydon a fair bit and Brixton well and for the normal person on a normal night out there's no comparison in terms of risk; Croydon wins hands down, it's full of fight-happy, pissed up boys looking for it and plenty of them (at least Saturdays and Fridays). Brixton's got it's edge but if you aren't up to anything silly or naughty you are really unlikely to get dragged in ime.


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## Guineveretoo (Jan 14, 2008)

People on this thread are comparing "Croydon", which is one of the biggest London boroughs, and encompasses some of Crystal Palace, and all of Purley and Coulsdon, as well as lots of other wards in between, with "Brixton", which is a small area of the borough of Lambeth. It's a confusing comparison.

I wonder if people, when they say "Croydon", actually mean Central/East Croydon? Or do they mean West Croydon? 

I ask because I live in the Borough of Croydon, and would like to be able to defend it, but I don't think people actually mean that the whole of Croydon is more dangerous than Brixton.


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## brix (Jan 14, 2008)

Guineveretoo said:
			
		

> People on this thread are comparing "Croydon", which is one of the biggest London boroughs, and encompasses some of Crystal Palace, and all of Purley and Coulsdon, as well as lots of other wards in between, with "Brixton", which is a small area of the borough of Lambeth. It's a confusing comparison.
> 
> I wonder if people, when they say "Croydon", actually mean Central/East Croydon? Or do they mean West Croydon?
> 
> I ask because I live in the Borough of Croydon, and would like to be able to defend it, but I don't think people actually mean that the whole of Croydon is more dangerous than Brixton.




Surely people are talking about Croydon town centre which is very 'lively' on a Friday and Saturday night.


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## TopCat (Jan 14, 2008)

Croydon is lovely, leave it be you Brixton dwelling bullet dodgers you.


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## co-op (Jan 14, 2008)

brix said:
			
		

> Surely people are talking about Croydon town centre which is very 'lively' on a Friday and Saturday night.



Yes, apologies to Croydon the Borough, I'm meaning George St, the High Street all around there. At weekends out in pub time. I think I'm quite good at being anonymous in aggy situations but I have been offered out there over _nothing_! Several times. In Kebab shops, at the tram stop, outside a pub. Real whatchoolookingat? stuff.


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## TopCat (Jan 14, 2008)

co-op said:
			
		

> Yes, apologies to Croydon the Borough, I'm meaning George St, the High Street all around there. At weekends out in pub time. I think I'm quite good at being anonymous in aggy situations but I have been offered out there over _nothing_! Several times. In Kebab shops, at the tram stop, outside a pub. Real whatchoolookingat? stuff.




Never _ever_ happend to me! 

Whatwereyoulookingat?


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## co-op (Jan 14, 2008)

TopCat said:
			
		

> Never _ever_ happend to me!
> 
> Whatwereyoulookingat?





<goes suddenly tight-lipped>

you want some then? eh? do ya?


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## Fuzzy (Jan 14, 2008)

brix said:
			
		

> Surely people are talking about Croydon town centre which is very 'lively' on a Friday and Saturday night.



and its also a lot larger than the centre of Brixton.


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## brix (Jan 14, 2008)

Fuzzy said:
			
		

> and its also a lot larger than the centre of Brixton.




Yes?


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## editor (Mar 3, 2009)

Sign outside says that it was sold at auction on the 18th Feb this year.

The bah could be coming back!


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## Kanda (Mar 3, 2009)

...as flats.


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## Paulie (Mar 3, 2009)

Brixton Hatter said:


> wouldn't it be nice if someone reopened the living bah as a traditional boozer



...it could even be called the Coach and Horses...


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## RaverDrew (Mar 3, 2009)

editor said:


> Sign outside says that it was sold at auction on the 18th Feb this year.
> 
> The bah could be coming back!



I doubt it. From what I've heard, the place has been left flooded in the cellar for over a year, and is rotting from the inside.


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## se5 (Mar 3, 2009)

It was sold for £700,000 - see http://www.eigroup.co.uk/auctioneer...sp?a=2&c=and&r=3&fc=ffffff&bc=0083c8&l=528797


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## editor (Mar 3, 2009)

Kanda said:


> ...as flats.


I haven't seen any change of use notices going up.

That place used to be a licence to print money - always busy and in a perfect location. They even started putting bands on toward the end. 

Shame it all got fucked up years ago.


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## Giles (Mar 4, 2009)

RaverDrew said:


> I doubt it. From what I've heard, the place has been left flooded in the cellar for over a year, and is rotting from the inside.



A flooded cellar won't cost that much to sort out. It certainly wouldn't make the building unrepairable or unusable.

Giles..


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## matt m (Mar 4, 2009)

yeah, they put on some good bands (sometimes) but it never seemed to be as popular on band nights as it was in previous years


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## GarfieldLeChat (Mar 4, 2009)

editor said:


> Sorry! I'm not going to start spreading gossip on this rumour until it gets a bit firmed up.


after which time i shall be spreading gossip like wild fire... 


only having a limited amount of gossip is titilating but not satisfying like having mountains of the stuff !!  

I never had you down as a gossip wherehouse... 

Lulz


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## tufty79 (Mar 4, 2009)

there's two pigeons squatting the attic (through the broken windows at the top) of living bah, presumably before the owners move in - they keep flying in and out and feeding and preening each other 
how on earth did it not get squatted before now? (maybe i should read the entire thread? 
oh yeah. the flooded basement and rotting insides might explain...)


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## editor (Mar 4, 2009)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> after which time i shall be spreading gossip like wild fire...
> 
> 
> only having a limited amount of gossip is titilating but not satisfying like having mountains of the stuff !!
> ...


Once again, I have no idea why you've followed me on to another thread to post up bizarre, incomprehensible comments.

Still, if it gives you 'Lulz' you go right ahead, weirdo.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Mar 4, 2009)

editor said:


> Once again, I have no idea why you've followed me on to another thread to post up bizarre, incomprehensible comments.
> 
> Still, if it gives you 'Lulz' you go right ahead, weirdo.


once again you've taken a good natured humours comment about the way you've phrased something and turned it into an unpleasent ad hom attack for no reason... AGAIN.

followed you WTF are you on about it's your site you're every where ffs...

I dunno...

but really take a chill pill not everyone is out to get you, we are allowed to make humorous comments about other peoples postings...

perhaps you are too close to whatever it is which has gotten up your nose recently and are seeing things which aren't there....

either way it was a humours comment, if you didn't get it, bad luck it was funny...

woudl you preffer it if i didn't respond to your posts again do tell me and I'll happliy oblige, it's not skin of my nose to not have to put up with a miserable response...

BTW and i've always wondered this, you seem to take great pleasure in deleiberately misunderstanding and then bemoaning what i post, you genuinely don't seem to be able to understand anything i write...


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## editor (Mar 4, 2009)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> once again you've taken a good natured humours comment about the way you've phrased something and turned it into an unpleasent ad hom attack for no reason... AGAIN.
> 
> followed you WTF are you on about it's your site you're every where ffs...
> 
> ...


'Gossip wherehouse'

  

I don't think comedy is your thing, garf.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Mar 4, 2009)

editor said:


> 'Gossip wherehouse'
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think comedy is your thing, garf.


it's clearly not yours either sweetie... 

<cheap shot />

yeah gossip wherehouse a theoretical place to store gossip until it reaches a mandated point where it ceases to be mere titialtion and becomes salacious... 

the essence of your hanging sentence was i'm not going to spread gossip about this until i know a bit more which wasn't you intended meaning but was it's alternative meaning due to the way you posted it hence me adding the other line which then finished the sentence.  

Sorry! I'm not going to *start* spreading gossip on this rumour until it gets a bit firmed up, *after* which time i shall be spreading gossip like wild fire

nothing more than this...

but whatever seriously if it vexes you that much I'll not respond to you again...no need to put a man under stress for summit which is not important or relevant is it, and clearly you assume it's some kind of attack.


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## TopCat (Mar 6, 2009)

I would like the Coach and Horses back, dust motes in the air, a faint air of decay, the flickering tv on the wall showing the racing, drug tourists entering with hopeful eyes.....


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## Nanker Phelge (Mar 6, 2009)

TopCat said:


> I would like the Coach and Horses back, dust motes in the air, a faint air of decay, the flickering tv on the wall showing the racing, drug tourists entering with hopeful eyes.....



If you want dusty, smelly and telly, sport and drugs just hang about at the Hootananny during the daytime


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## TopCat (Mar 6, 2009)

Nanker Phelge said:


> If you want dusty, smelly and telly, sport and drugs just hang about at the Hootananny during the daytime



Not the same at all. The Coach and Horses had a unique ambiance.


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## hipipol (Mar 7, 2009)

Its big in Pigeon world still
Even when the FAB brothers were running it as a cutting edge buzz spot for danger loving Claphamites they had taken the window out of the attick space leaving just a gap - I would imagine a fair tonnage of guano, feather and dead birds have collected over the years - makes v good compost I am told - though concidering what Brixton pigeons eat maybe not in this case.......


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## editor (Mar 7, 2009)

TopCat said:


> Not the same at all. The Coach and Horses had a unique ambiance.


The place did "empty" pretty well too.


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## TopCat (Mar 10, 2009)

editor said:


> The place did "empty" pretty well too.



I loved it. You could go in, the racing was on, five customers in total, pretty peaceful, ripped seats, no worries about muddy boots. A quintessential Brixton pub.


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## tufty79 (Apr 21, 2009)

well it's still empty and up for sale.. 

but someone seems to have decorated the hoardings - it's very pretty


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## tufty79 (Apr 23, 2009)

...and there now appears to be an impromptu streetpoetry and drumming thang going on there in front of the artworks 


i may have contributed


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## tufty79 (May 10, 2009)

there were lights on in the attic there at around three this morning.
and they're off now.


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## nick h. (May 10, 2009)

A week or two ago Pat at Book Mongers told me the place had been sold. He mentioned a figure - a very round number - I think it was 700 grand.


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## Onket (Apr 4, 2011)

Looks/Sounds like it's re-opening as a bar. They're fitting it out now. Spoke to one of the blokes emptying it out at lunchtime today.


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## editor (Apr 4, 2011)

Word is that it's reopening on Friday, first floor only.


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## editor (Apr 4, 2011)

nick h. said:


> A week or two ago Pat at Book Mongers told me the place had been sold. He mentioned a figure - a very round number - I think it was 700 grand.


Well down on the fantasy figure of £2m that was floating about a few years ago then! 

I heard one of the original owners was involved  too(not the terrible twins). The bar should do well though - it's in a great location.


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## Rushy (Apr 4, 2011)

editor said:


> Well down on the fantasy figure of £2m that was floating about a few years ago then!
> 
> I heard one of the original owners was involved  too(not the terrible twins). The bar should do well though - it's in a great location.


 
I saw it go at auction for 700K in about 2007 or 2008.


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## Utopia (Apr 4, 2011)

editor said:


> I heard one of the original owners was involved  too(not the terrible twins). The bar should do well though - it's in a great location.


 

Ahhhhhh, they were alright, just a little too into the white stuff(allegedly) which supressed the rational/polite/civilised side of their ickle brains, bless em.  Wonder what they(and the Merritt's) are up to now?


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## editor (Apr 4, 2011)

Rushy said:


> I saw it go at auction for 700K in about 2007 or 2008.


As I recall there was 'For Sale'/'Sold' signs going up and down like a, err,  lady of the night's knickers.


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## Brixton Hatter (Apr 6, 2011)

So who is running the "new" Living Bar then?

Because I've already been spammed with emails from them talking about the forthcoming opening. They're using the old mailing list from years ago, so I assume it is either the same owners/people running it as before, or they've sold the mailing list to the new people. 

Mind you, there's a preview night on Thursday at 7.30pm and they say they are offering free bubbly and nibbles, so people who are interested in the 'Brixton Bar Scene' might want to pop along and have a look.




			
				Living Bar email said:
			
		

> Living Bar Returns!
> 
> We're not quite ready but couldn't wait to let you know..
> 
> ...


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## editor (Apr 6, 2011)

The demise of the Rest Is Noise and the wobbly antics at the Prince of the Wales couldn't have come at a better time for the Living Bah.


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## TruXta (Apr 6, 2011)

Too true. Will it be any good tho? It was closed when I first moved here, so I've got no expectations either way.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Too true. Will it be any good tho? It was closed when I first moved here, so I've got no expectations either way.


If it ends up anything like it used to be, you can expect lots of people jumping straight out of taxis into the place, and some, shall we say, 'unlicensed street traders' on hand to furnish their late night needs.


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## Kanda (Apr 6, 2011)

editor said:


> If it ends up anything like it used to be, you can expect lots of people jumping straight out of taxis into the place, and some, shall we say, 'unlicensed street traders' on hand to furnish their late night needs.


 
So pretty much like all the other bars around these days..


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## editor (Apr 6, 2011)

Kanda said:


> So pretty much like all the other bars around these days..


No, the Living Bar was far worse than most. It was like a magnet to some 'unlicensed street traders' and could be quite unpleasant trying to walk past some nights.


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## Kanda (Apr 6, 2011)

I never thought it was really that bad back then. Although the whole street I think has calmed down a bit over the past 5 or 6 years.


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## nick h. (Apr 6, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> So who is running the "new" Living Bar then?



I was told it's one of the two former owners.


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## colacubes (Apr 6, 2011)

Kanda said:


> I never thought it was really that bad back then. Although the whole street I think has calmed down a bit over the past 5 or 6 years.



That's entirely true and it did calm down around the same time that Living closed, but it also coincided with a load of police action on the road so was probably purely coincidental.  Will be interesting to see what happens.

We got the same spam through last night on email and I have no memory of ever signing up for their mailing list   Might well pop in for the bubbly and nibbles


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## wtfftw (Apr 6, 2011)

I got that email. Don't recall ever going.


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## nick h. (Apr 6, 2011)

If street purveyors do flock back to Living it will be interesting to see how Plod reacts. On the one hand they plainly don't give a stuff about dealing at certain locations. On the other hand they've been astonishingly heavy-handed on that stretch lately. The other day they stopped a guy for wearing no seat belt on Electric Lane right next to Living. He wouldn't get out of his car, so they blocked him in with four police vehicles and threatened to smash his windscreen and drag him out. By this time about 30 people had gathered. Plod eventually just wrote the guy a ticket and drove off. The whole thing lasted an hour. Various people were filming it and giving their details to the driver so he could put the word out if he was stopped again round the corner. All in all a satisfying deployment of people power.


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## isvicthere? (Apr 6, 2011)

Will there be a return of the "I went to the Living Room (now Bar) last night" threads of yore (circa 2001/2)?


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## quimcunx (Apr 6, 2011)

Ed's sold the member list.


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## editor (Apr 6, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> Ed's sold the member list.


I didn't get one of their new spams but that's probably because I forcibly told them to take me off the stinkin' list at the time.


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## RaverDrew (Apr 6, 2011)

isvicthere? said:


> Will there be a return of the "I went to the Living Room (now Bar) last night" threads of yore (circa 2001/2)?


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## editor (Apr 8, 2011)

We all went along last night and enjoyed some free beers.






http://www.urban75.org/blog/brixton-living-bar-coldharbour-lane-reopens/


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## IamSnakes (Apr 9, 2011)

I walked past but didnt go in. How was it ? It all looked a bit bare from the outside but I guess was not finished so I will have to pay it a visit in a while to give it a fair go


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