# Worthless (non-fiction) books



## Santino (Mar 12, 2012)

Prompted by a few mentions of 'Orientalism' in another thread, what books would you happily see removed from all libraries everywhere and recycled into paper cups?

I'll start with Sophie's World, A Short History of Myth by Karen Armstrong and a biography of Robert Browning I once abandoned after 50 or so pages.


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## smmudge (Mar 12, 2012)

Are you saying Orientalism is a worthless non-fiction book?


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## ChocolateTeapot (Mar 12, 2012)

The Storm of War (A New History of the Second World War) by Andrew Roberts - bought for me as a Christmas present after a review my sister read claiming it was an in-depth analysis of the flaws in Axis strategy during WW2.

Firstly, it's not a "new" anything - it reads like a compilation of other single volume histories, it's riddled with mistakes (e.g. "during the advance on Moscow, the barometer fell to minus 30" - no wonder the Wehrmacht had such a hard time, operating in a vaccuum!) and many, many more really fundamental errors. (e.g. "the Panzerfaust, a gun"). He seems to think that an ascent of 500 yards during an advance of 1000 yards means a 45 degree incline...

The authors prejudices aren't just subtly included, he goes off at a tangent to parade them - treacherous irish, how dare they not join the British! The Sino-Japanese war doesn't appear to happen at all, basically anywhere Anglo-US forces weren't involved is deemed secondary, but Orde Wingate (we are told is ultra-zionist, for some reason) and the Chindits get 17 pages of embarassing fanboy write-up. Arabs, where they appear at all in the ME portions of the book are simply called "arab terrorists". Aside from Malta, the RUC in 1990 are the only other group recipients of the George Cross medal, he informs you - what that actually has to do with WW2 is not explained. Alan Turing of Bletchley Park fame, who it could be argued, made the single most important technical individual contribution to the Allied cause is described as "Cambridge homosexual academic mathematician". Strangely enough, Roberts never says anything like "heterosexual Josef Stalin", or "heterosexual Ike Eisenhower".

The fundamental premise of the book doesn't even appear until the last 50 pages, where we learn the Axis didn't really have a joint coherent strategy and Hitler could have won the war if he hadn't been a nazi, but wouldn't have started it unless he had been a nazi - shocking revelation there.

Roberts is apparently George W. Bush's favourite historian, which perhaps should be mentioned on a large day-glo sticker on the dust jacket, to warn the unwary.


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## Santino (Mar 12, 2012)

smmudge said:


> Are you saying Orientalism is a worthless non-fiction book?


I'm not _saying_ that, no.


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## Kaka Tim (Mar 12, 2012)

I think Andrew Roberts was one of the cheerleaders for Iraq - comparing bush and blair to chucrhcill, Saddam to Hitler and   branding those opposing the notion  of the worlds largest military power invading and occupying someone elses country as 'appeasers'.
So no - not a reliable historian.

My non-fiction recommendations for room 101 -
Men are from mars women are from Uranus (or whatever its called)
Every self help/self improvement and diet book ever printed.
Zen and the art of ........

(sorry momentarily dropped off to sleep there)


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 12, 2012)

Carl Jung _The Undiscovered Self_. So many misunderstandings packed into such a short book.


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## quimcunx (Mar 12, 2012)

All hardbacks except 'coffee table picture books'.   Pointlessly unecological.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

smmudge said:


> Are you saying Orientalism is a worthless non-fiction book?


 
I think he's saying that he *believes* that. It is a claim that would be immensely difficult to prove objectively.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> All hardbacks except 'coffee table picture books'. Pointlessly unecological.


 
Not *pointlessly *so, IMO. Hardbacks are great if the book is a "keeper" that you're going to read and re-read, or use as a reference volume, simply by virtue of the fact that they don't fall apart anywhere near as fast as a well-used paperback does. What's more unecological - buying 3 consecutive copies of a book in paperback, or a single hardback copy?


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## quimcunx (Mar 12, 2012)

An electronic copy.


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## toggle (Mar 12, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> An electronic copy.


 
good for novels or anyhting you will read cover to cover. not so good for reference books IMO.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

Hmmm, only a few books that I'd categorise as "worthlesss" in my opinion.

First and foremost it's got to be Herrnstein and Murray's "The Bell Curve", for being a badly-referenced pseudo-academic monstrosity fit only to justify racism and poor (or absent) research, and give opinion masquerading as research an airing.  I bought it when it first came out because I was interested in how the authors substantiated their argument interested in the data they used. I quickly learned that they "substantiated" their arguments by ignoring anything that challenged those arguments, and that the data they used was either a biased interpretation of data from other sources, or was derived from the kind of pseudo-academic research that the US hard right is fond of undertaking to "prove" the scientific basis of their prejudice.

Second would be a book I picked up in a "job lot" of hardbacks from the back of a warehouse. It's by Paul Johnson (yes, *that* Paul Johnson!) and is called "The Intellectuals". it offers Mr. Johnson's supposedly-incisive insight into a parade of "intellectuals" (a better description might be "people to the left of Paul Johnson who are/were more intelligent and/or more accomplished than Paul Johnson") that is little better than an attempt to skewer said parade on the contradictions between their intellectual and personal lives. Of course, he chucks in a couple of "decent chaps to the left of Paul Johnson" too, for the sake of "balance". 

Third would be a volume I acquired from abebooks for the princely sum of 63p, plus postage. At the time I bought it, I'd just read a rather interesting book ("Beliefs and Ideology" by Kenneth Thompson) which enthused me to buy a couple of other books to do with what is meant by "ideology", one of which was the above-mentioned cheapie. It's simply titled "Ideology" and is by a chap called David Hawkes. Why do I deem it worthless? Because the author spends so long patting himself on the back that the reader loses any impetus to persevere with the book.
Urban's danny la rouge, _apropos_ certain books he'd jokingly said he'd proscribe, provides what I'd say is an almost perfect description in post 125 of the "which of these have you read then, clever clogs?" thread, that can be applied to this book as to why it is "worthless".
danny says:
"My problem with PoMo pseudery is that its intention is to show off how 'clever' the writer is by taking as many words as possible to express mundane or slight insights. It is precisely and designedly elitist, with the intention of maintaining an academic class. It pats the writer and the reader on the back, and says 'to be clever one has to be opaque' ", which certainly fits.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> An electronic copy.


 
Much harder to annotate, though.


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## toggle (Mar 12, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Much harder to annotate, though.


 
and stick 35 post it notes into


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## SpookyFrank (Mar 12, 2012)

Anything by Roger Scruton.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

toggle said:


> and stick 35 post it notes into


 
Yup. 

And you can't use a *highlighter!

*For any puritans, I use Pilot's "friXion" erasable highlighters in books.


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## Bakunin (Mar 12, 2012)

I recall having my will to live run dangerously low while trying to digest 'The revolutionary Ideas of Karl Marx' by that esteemed and, obviously, entirely objective and totally not skewed at all, academic, Alex Callinicos.

Then again, it could have been sapped just by being a Swappie.


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## toggle (Mar 12, 2012)

Bakunin said:


> I recall having my will to live run dangerously low while trying to digest 'The revolutionary Ideas of Karl Marx' by that esteemed and, obviously, entirely objective and totally not skewed at all, academic, Alex Callinicos.
> 
> Then again, it could have been sapped just by being a Swappie.


 
i think this might by why you are avioding looking into the boxs under my desk


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## Bakunin (Mar 12, 2012)

toggle said:


> i think this might by why you are avioding looking into the boxs under my desk


 
Boxes, you say? Of books? What wouldst thou like me to do with them, O apple of my eye?


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## toggle (Mar 12, 2012)

Bakunin said:


> Boxes, you say? Of books? What wouldst thou like me to do with them, O apple of my eye?


 
think you were going to list them on ebay.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

Bakunin said:


> I recall having my will to live run dangerously low while trying to digest 'The revolutionary Ideas of Karl Marx' by that esteemed and, obviously, entirely objective and totally not skewed at all, academic, Alex Callinicos.
> 
> Then again, it could have been sapped just by being a Swappie.


 
Thing is, you *know*, when you read something by Callinicos, Harman or one of the other Swaps, that you're going to have to allow for them *ahem* bending history to their own purposes.
Not that knowing that will stop you having your will to live sapped, though.


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## scifisam (Mar 12, 2012)

All the very old directories like Writer's Yearbooks that are ten years out of date and useless. Old travel guides too - the Rough Guide type rather than the type that tell a story.



ViolentPanda said:


> Yup.
> 
> And you can't use a *highlighter!
> 
> *For any puritans, I use Pilot's "friXion" erasable highlighters in books.


 
This one you can do with ebooks. Not with an actual eighties-neon pen though.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

scifisam said:


> This one you can do with ebooks. Not with an actual eighties-neon pen though.


 
It's not the same, it's not *tactile*.


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## phildwyer (Mar 12, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> I think he's saying that he *believes* that. It is a claim that would be immensely difficult to prove objectively.


 
Yes, because it is wrong and only a fool such as Santino would believe it.


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## toggle (Mar 12, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yup.
> 
> And you can't use a *highlighter!
> 
> *For any puritans, I use Pilot's "friXion" erasable highlighters in books.


 
i'm stuck with post its cause i'm using mostly library books atm.


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## discokermit (Mar 12, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Thing is, you *know*, when you read something by Callinicos, Harman or one of the other Swaps, that you're going to have to allow for them *ahem* bending history to their own purposes.
> Not that knowing that will stop you having your will to live sapped, though.


i always found harman quite readable.


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## quimcunx (Mar 12, 2012)

Phils back from his latest 24 hour ban then.


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## smmudge (Mar 12, 2012)

toggle said:


> good for novels or anyhting you will read cover to cover. not so good for reference books IMO.


 
ebooks are ace for reference:
"oh no I read something really important, but I only vaguely remember it." / "oh no I seem to have a quote here but I can't remember which page it's from and whether I've quoted it correctly."
ctrl+f
type keyword
"OMG THERE IT IS!!!!"


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## quimcunx (Mar 12, 2012)

except my kindle has frozen.   I can't find the receipt but my bro says it was in the box.  I've only had it since christmas but I miss it.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

discokermit said:


> i always found harman quite readable.


 
Compared to big Al, he is, and his book on the German revolution is quite a good working over of the primary sources once you take the spin into account.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Phils back from his latest 24 hour ban then.


 
He was on a ban? Hadn't noticed, tbh.


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## quimcunx (Mar 12, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> He was on a ban? Hadn't noticed, tbh.


 
I hadn't noticed except the mod in question mentioned it then I noticed a great flurry of posts in the last hour as if he'd been saving it all up.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

toggle said:


> i'm stuck with post its cause i'm using mostly library books atm.


 
They *do* tend to frown on people defacing their books, don't they?


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> except my kindle has frozen. I can't find the receipt but my bro says it was in the box. I've only had it since christmas but I miss it.


 
Don't they have a helpline (I'm sure my s-i-l mentioned one)?


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## toggle (Mar 12, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> They *do* tend to frown on people defacing their books, don't they?


 
not that it stops a lot of my fellow students judging from the state in which some of the books i get are in


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> I hadn't noticed except the mod in question mentioned it then I noticed a great flurry of posts in the last hour as if he'd been saving it all up.


 
Ah, right!


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

toggle said:


> not that it stops a lot of my fellow students judging from the state in which some of the books i get are in


 
Gits. 
Is it as distracting as it comes across as?


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## phildwyer (Mar 12, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> Phils back from his latest 24 hour ban then.


 
It was only a six hour ban in the end, not sure why.


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## toggle (Mar 12, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Gits.
> Is it as distracting as it comes across as?


 
depends on whether the person who did this had a clue or not and was looking for the same things in the book. The point where i bought a secondhand copy of Halevy and found the person who had owned it befpre had marked out the thesis on methodism and revolution and the supporting evidence for this was very useful cnsidering i'd bought the book in order to write an essay using that as a starting point to examine the inate conservatism of cornish society.

sometimes it's just damn annoying when they have picked up on what is to me complete irrelevencies and highlighted what seems to be random words.


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## Bakunin (Mar 12, 2012)

quimcunx said:


> I hadn't noticed except the mod in question mentioned it then I noticed a great flurry of posts in the last hour as if he'd been saving it all up.


 
Must have been a bout of Tantric posting. He was probably full to the brim.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 12, 2012)

I enjoyed Sophie's World and found it illuminating and interesting.
Why shouldn't I have, Santino? 


My contribution is celebrity/sports/comedy biographies


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 12, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I enjoyed Sophie's World and found it illuminating and interesting.
> Why shouldn't I have, Santino?


I've heard other people say that too. I couldn't stand it, but it isn't actually _wrong_, so it's harmless at worst, imo.


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## Santino (Mar 12, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I enjoyed Sophie's World and found it illuminating and interesting.
> Why shouldn't I have, Santino?


It is at best distortingly simplified and at worse downright misleading in its picture of philosophy and the theories of individual thinkers. Also it makes it seem like a big fun game instead of an often boring and technical discipline.


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## littlebabyjesus (Mar 12, 2012)

Santino said:


> Also it makes it seem like a big fun game instead of an often boring and technical discipline.


How terrible!


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## Orang Utan (Mar 12, 2012)

It makes philosophy palatable - which is a good thing


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## butchersapron (Mar 12, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> I enjoyed Sophie's World and found it illuminating and interesting.
> Why shouldn't I have, Santino?


 
Because you look like this;


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## Orang Utan (Mar 12, 2012)

God not him. He's a cunt. Like the philosopher off of The Day Today


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## butchersapron (Mar 12, 2012)

Tariq Ali - _It's Their Own fault._

Worthless polemic


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## butchersapron (Mar 12, 2012)

Orang Utan said:


> God not him. He's a cunt. Like the philosopher off of The Day Today


But reading it makes you look like him.


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## Orang Utan (Mar 12, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> But reading it makes you look like him.


O rly


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## smmudge (Mar 12, 2012)

Kaka Tim said:


> Every self help/self improvement and diet book ever printed.


 
I wouldn't say every one. Some people are genuinely helped by some self-help books, I think it just depends the issues that tackles and the claims the book tries to make. Obviously some things can't be helped just by reading a book, but some can.


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## quimcunx (Mar 12, 2012)

smmudge said:


> I wouldn't say every one. Some people are genuinely helped by some self-help books, I think it just depends the issues that tackles and the claims the book tries to make. Obviously some things can't be helped just by reading a book, but some can.


 
It's £8 worth of therapy.  If one sentence in there is helpful to you, you've had your money's worth. 

Diet books can fuck off though.


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## phildwyer (Mar 12, 2012)

Santino said:


> It is at best distortingly simplified and at worse downright misleading in its picture of philosophy and the theories of individual thinkers. Also it makes it seem like a big fun game instead of an often boring and technical discipline.


 
Philosophy is boring only to bores.


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## Kaka Tim (Mar 12, 2012)

smmudge said:


> I wouldn't say every one. Some people are genuinely helped by some self-help books, I think it just depends the issues that tackles and the claims the book tries to make. Obviously some things can't be helped just by reading a book, but some can.


 
Maybe I'd should have said 'self improvement' books - obv self help books can be useful - i.e. dealing with diatbetes/anxiety/debt etc.

I mean the  'New Way to a Better You!'  - 'How to Achieve Self Acutualisation' narcisisstic guff.

I think anything written by Edward De Bono can be added to the list as well.

And Eric Von Durkhiem. I wasted far too much intellectual energy on his nonsense when I was about 10 - and I want it back.


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## Greebo (Mar 12, 2012)

I don't know the title of it, but the self help book which told my mum that psoriasis could be cured (not managed, cured!) with a strict regime of enemas, laxatives, colonic irrigation, and a supplement is IMHO just about fit for shredding.

And almost anything by Louise Hay.


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## butchersapron (Mar 12, 2012)

Kaka Tim said:


> And Eric Von Durkhiem. I wasted far too much intellectual energy on his nonsense when I was about 10 - and I want it back.


ufo anomie


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## smmudge (Mar 12, 2012)

I would quite like to see some Dawkins made into pulp actually.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

Kaka Tim said:


> Maybe I'd should have said 'self improvement' books - obv self help books can be useful - i.e. dealing with diatbetes/anxiety/debt etc.
> 
> I mean the 'New Way to a Better You!' - 'How to Achieve Self Acutualisation' narcisisstic guff.
> 
> ...


 
Do you mean Emile Durkheim, or Erich von Daniken, mate?


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## quimcunx (Mar 12, 2012)

Greebo said:


> I don't know the title of it, but the self help book which told my mum that psoriasis could be cured (not managed, cured!) with a strict regime of enemas, laxatives, colonic irrigation, and a supplement is IMHO just about fit for shredding.


 
self-help and diet combined FTW!


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## danny la rouge (Mar 12, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's simply titled "Ideology" and is by a chap called David Hawkes. Why do I deem it worthless? Because the author spends so long patting himself on the back that the reader loses any impetus to persevere with the book.


I confess I've never heard of David Hawkes.  But I've just had a look at his book "Ideology" on Google books.  I fully admit it was only a cursory glance, but while I don't think it reaches the dizzy heights of wilful opacity of Baudrillard or Lacan, it certainly seems self-congratulatory.  



> Clearly, to attempt to alter the nature of natural objects is a task of Sisyphean futility.  In the sphere of human nature, however, the nature/custom dichotomy becomes less absolute.


 
Oh, very good, Mr Academic.  You've read your mythology.  But: "the nature of natural objects"?  Is that like the woodenness of wooden furniture?  Or more like the woodenness of your prose?

Well done VP on finding a very dull book.


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## Kaka Tim (Mar 12, 2012)

ViolentPanda said:


> Do you mean Emile Durkheim, or Erich von Daniken, mate?


 
Von Daniken.   Mixing up my sociology a level with my pre-teen belief in god being an astronaut and all that pony.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 12, 2012)

Kaka Tim said:


> Von Daniken.  Mixing up my sociology a level with my pre-teen belief in god being an astronaut and all that pony.


 

No problem!


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## Greebo (Mar 12, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> I confess I've never heard of David Hawkes. But I've just had a look at his book "Ideology" on Google books. I fully admit it was only a cursory glance, but while I don't think it reaches the dizzy heights of wilful opacity of Baudrillard or Lacan, it certainly seems self-congratulatory.<snip>


Oh it's on the tip of my tongue which urbanite that writing style reminds me of.  Drat my uselessness with names.


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## danny la rouge (Mar 12, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Oh it's on the tip of my tongue which urbanite that writing style reminds me of. Drat my uselessness with names.


If you add it a lot of smilies and rolleyes it'd be a bit like Gorski, I suppose.  Similar enthusiasms, too, from what I could glean.


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## eoin_k (Mar 12, 2012)

Does 'The End of History' count as non-fiction?


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## Greebo (Mar 12, 2012)

eoin_k said:


> Does 'The End of History' count as non-fiction?


It can, if you want it to.


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## Kaka Tim (Mar 12, 2012)

The Encyclopedia Britannica's not a whole lot of use anymore is it?


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## Greebo (Mar 12, 2012)

danny la rouge said:


> If you add it a lot of smilies and rolleyes it'd be a bit like Gorski, I suppose. Similar enthusiasms, too, from what I could glean.


*looks up Gorski's postings* No, I'm sure I've read whoever it is a lot more recently (and often) than last summer.


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## Greebo (Mar 12, 2012)

dp


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## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 12, 2012)

Thus Spoke Zarathustra


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## StraightOuttaQ (Mar 12, 2012)

Von Daniken. Chapman Pincher. Most ghost written celeb biographies.


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## Greebo (Mar 12, 2012)

StraightOuttaQ said:


> Von Daniken. Chapman Pincher. Most ghost written celeb biographies.


Can I request that Von Daniken be allowed to remain on the shelves as long as it's treated as myth-based fiction instead of taken as fact?


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## StraightOuttaQ (Mar 12, 2012)

Greebo said:


> Can I request that Von Daniken be allowed to remain on the shelves as long as it's treated as myth-based fiction instead of taken as fact?


 
Well, come the zombie apocalypse on Dec 21, 2012, I'll need something to Burn to keep the fire burning so I remain alive. The Von Daniken stays. After that, I'm breaking into the library and finding reams and reams on tax law.


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## Greebo (Mar 12, 2012)

StraightOuttaQ said:


> <snip>After that, I'm breaking into the library and finding reams and reams on tax law.


No need to shamelessly plunder the day after tomorrow


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## StraightOuttaQ (Mar 12, 2012)

Greebo said:


> No need to shamelessly plunder the day after tomorrow


 
In all fairness, the man had a point! I wondered if bibliophiles would get that....


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 13, 2012)

What's that brilliant hatchet job on Carlos Castenada called? I keep thinking it's by Cecil B de Mille but I know that's wrong. Read it years ago and remember it with great fondness.


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## laptop (Mar 13, 2012)

Mrs Magpie said:


> What's that brilliant hatchet job on Carlos Castenada called? I keep thinking it's by Cecil B de Mille but I know that's wrong. Read it years ago and remember it with great fondness.


 
Richard de Mille it says here: _Castaneda's Journey: The Power and the Allegory._




			
				WikiFact! said:
			
		

> In _The Power and the Allegory,_ De Mille compared _The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge_ with Castaneda's library stack requests at the University of California. The stack requests documented that he was sitting in the library when allegedly his journal said he was squatting in Don Juan's hut. One discovery that de Mille alleges to have made in his examination of the stack requests was that when Castaneda was alleged to have said that he was participating in the traditional peyote ceremony—the least fantastic episode of drug use—he was sitting in the UCLA library and he was reading someone else's description of their experience of the peyote ceremony. Other criticisms of Castaneda's work include the total lack of Yaqui vocabulary or terms for any of his experiences


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 13, 2012)

That's the one! Wiped many a smug but vacuous smile off the face of drug-addled hippies with that book


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 13, 2012)

Not that I physically beat them around the head with it. Although that would have been perfectly justified


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## Pickman's model (Mar 13, 2012)

Some time ago I was in the national library of malta where I saw a 1950s book of marime mercantile (british) law. That looked fairly worthless to me.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 13, 2012)

StraightOuttaQ said:


> Well, come the zombie apocalypse on Dec 21, 2012, I'll need something to Burn to keep the fire burning so I remain alive. The Von Daniken stays. After that, I'm breaking into the library and finding reams and reams on tax law.


If it's a dewey library, look in the 340s, if bliss then under s.


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## ViolentPanda (Mar 13, 2012)

eoin_k said:


> Does 'The End of History' count as non-fiction?


 


I note that his _mea culpa_ of a few years back didn't get anywhere near as much publicity as the book in question.


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## likesfish (Mar 13, 2012)

Ayn rands entire pile of "work" and most of her "fans" as well 
 Dangerously stupid


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## Kaka Tim (Mar 13, 2012)




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## danny la rouge (Mar 13, 2012)

I've never read Mad Mel's book, but I'm sure you're right.


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## jakethesnake (Mar 13, 2012)

laptop said:


> Richard de Mille it says here: _Castaneda's Journey: The Power and the Allegory._


Actually I think you will find that Casteneda, through the rigorous pursuit of the Yaqui ways of knowledge, was able to be both at the library and tripping in a dessert in Mexico _at the same time..._yibble yibble


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## Cloo (Mar 13, 2012)

Biographies of reality TV 'stars'. Dull and unremarkable 20 years or so of life, followed by about three weeks' dull and unremarkable fame.


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## Mrs Magpie (Mar 13, 2012)

jakethesnake said:


> in a dessert in Mexico


Sticky....
http://allrecipes.com/recipes/world-cuisine/latin-america/mexico/mexican-desserts/top.aspx


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## danny la rouge (Mar 14, 2012)

Long ago, high on a cheesecake in Mexico, lived a young shepherd called Angelo...


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## DaveCinzano (Nov 16, 2015)

ChocolateTeapot said:


> Roberts is apparently George W. Bush's favourite historian, which perhaps should be mentioned on a large day-glo sticker on the dust jacket, to warn the unwary.


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