# London rioting and looting, Aug 2011



## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Confirmed, Enfield, Walthamstow, Dalston, Brixton, unconfirmed Islington, Manor House and a few other places....Predict where next?


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## stuff_it (Aug 8, 2011)

Is this the Mornington Crescent summer riot edition?


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Is this the Mornington Crescent summer riot edition?


Certainly seems like it on twitter tonight.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 8, 2011)

it's not happening in fucking dalston, why are you persisting in perpetuating untruths?


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## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Confirmed, Enfield, Walthamstow, Dalston, Brixton, unconfirmed Islington, Manor House and a few other places....Predict where next?


pls link to your confirmation of dalston


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## stuff_it (Aug 8, 2011)

Youths and police gathering in Islington from the sound of things.

Holloway road...


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## marty21 (Aug 8, 2011)

We are safe in upper clapton - all the shops are shite..


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## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2011)

there's this from dalston, but it doesn't show looting


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> it's not happening in fucking dalston, why are you persisting in perpetuating untruths?





> roshisbest Roshan Singh
> 
> The Guardian are Live Blogging: http://bit.ly/qodDBs Dalston has been confirmed #londonriots


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## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 8, 2011)

yes, that's more or less what i saw, as well as a couple of yout getting nicked off gillett sq


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## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 8, 2011)

@rutita it's two twitter a/c's that a telegraph tweeter has taken as impeccable sources. one a/c is basically saying that someone else told him. so there's only one person who says he's seen it.

you don't need to stigmatise your own community on half truths and unreported rubbish, i've just been down there and there isn't any parallel at all between what happened last night and what's gone on in dalston.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 8, 2011)

haha


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## ferrelhadley (Aug 8, 2011)

EC2, shit loads of looting.


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## Bernie Gunther (Aug 8, 2011)

Wouldn't say Bond Street be more lucrative?


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> you don't need to stigmatise *your*own community on half truths and unreported rubbish,


What do you mean *my* community?



> i've just been down there and there isn't any parallel at all between what happened last night and what's gone on in dalston.


I haven't said there is a bloody parrallel....this thread is about looting going on tonight, don't imagine words or intentions that aren't there.


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## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 8, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> What do you mean *my* community?
> 
> I haven't said there is a bloody parrallel....this thread is about looting going on tonight, don't imagine words or intentions that aren't there.


um, hackney? you do live there and go on about how in touch you are. ffs, if you want to be an arse about spreading fucking stupid fucking rumours then go right ahead. what _are_ you doing then?

_oh looting confirmed, all over london, predict where next_...you playing fucking bingo love? ffs, i'm going to bed.


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## twentythreedom (Aug 8, 2011)

It'd be good if some actual government buildings got torched.

And why's White Hart Lane not been reduced to ashes yet?


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> um, hackney? you do live there and go on about how in touch you are. ffs, if you want to be an arse about spreading fucking stupid fucking rumours then go right ahead. what _are_ you doing then?
> 
> _oh looting confirmed, all over london, predict where next_...you playing fucking bingo love? ffs, i'm going to bed.



I tell you what fuck off you patronising grumpy arse, who are you to define *my* community? I usually have a lot of time for you but cock off and take your shitty mood out on someone else.

What I'm doing right now is preparing to go to bed after running my self ragged organising and running a community party yesterday and having a massive clear up job today. Most of what I see as *my* community were at that party yesterday.

Make your point about unconfirmed reports fair enough but don't lecture me on my community and how I should define it. You have no clue.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Hackney, Holloway...saw groups (from the overground) gathering around Camden before I left. Dalston shops have shut up again.


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## Belushi (Aug 8, 2011)

Half a dozen shops looted in Streatham last night. The fellas boarding up one of them said there had also been incidents in Tooting.


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## Pingu (Aug 8, 2011)

its made the news here in krakow. cant understand a word of whats being said but recognise london.


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## magneze (Aug 8, 2011)

Belushi said:


> Half a dozen shops looted in Streatham last night. The fellas boarding up one of them said there had also been incidents in Tooting.


Local paper reports minor incidents in Colliers Wood too. Of course, with the current state of things someone having an angry word at a policeman or kicking a bin would probably get Twitter claiming there's a riot.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

> *"'When you cut facilities, slash jobs, abuse power, discriminate, drive people into deeper poverty and shoot people dead whilst refusing to provide answers or justice, the people will rise up and express their anger and frustration if you refuse to hear their cries. A riot is the language of the unheard." Martin Luther King.*


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## Pingu (Aug 8, 2011)

> "dont fuck with the men with big sticks, guns and body armour, cos you will lose" - My Mate Jamsie



better ways to do it



> Anger is the enemy of non-violence and pride is a monster that swallows it up.
> *Mohandas Gandh*


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Lewisham, Peckham...unconfirmed in Islington, Hoxton and New Cross.


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## editor (Aug 8, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> It'd be good if some actual government buildings got torched.


Oh yes. I'm sure pensioners and the unemployed would be delighted if their payments were delayed because some fuckwit has torched the building handling their benefits.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Bethnal Green...


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## lopsidedbunny (Aug 8, 2011)

They are going to hit my area "Romford" the police are there etc just follow tweets...


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## Barking_Mad (Aug 8, 2011)

> 1923:  Dean A
> tweets: Just seens about 200 youths in hoodies pass through the streets of East Ham with bikes and batons. #londonriots


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 8, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> It'd be good if some actual government buildings got torched.
> 
> And why's White Hart Lane not been reduced to ashes yet?



and how much money would it cost to replace them (paid for by us)?


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

West Croydon...


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## editor (Aug 8, 2011)

Note for cyclists: "Avoid London fields cyclists. Gang of kids mugging people for bikes"


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## Barking_Mad (Aug 8, 2011)

The cops are going to be spread very thin here....


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## claphamboy (Aug 8, 2011)

Barking_Mad said:


> The cops are going to be spread very thin here....



I heard a report that they had support from Thames Valley police over the weekend, I assume they can call more in from the likes of Essex, Kent, Surrey, etc.


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 8, 2011)

editor said:


> Note for cyclists: "Avoid London fields cyclists. Gang of kids mugging people for bikes"


Tweeted


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## lopsidedbunny (Aug 8, 2011)

Is it a working class thing or a robbery effort...


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## Maurice Picarda (Aug 8, 2011)

http://londonriotsmap.appspot.com/

Winchmore Hill? Goodness.

ETA: Oh, it wa a "funny" tweet. And that is why twitter-based apps are fundamentally useless.


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## Barking_Mad (Aug 8, 2011)

Gallions Reach reported having fire/trouble (not sure which)


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## lopsidedbunny (Aug 8, 2011)

BBC saying there trouble in East Ham...


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## Luther Blissett (Aug 8, 2011)

It's kicking off in Brum (news via Twitter - msm not reporting this yet)


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## lopsidedbunny (Aug 8, 2011)

they showing looting on a loop on telly...


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## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 8, 2011)

hackney central and surrounds was getting proper scary earlier on, much worse than what i saw on saturday.


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## lopsidedbunny (Aug 8, 2011)

Brum on fire? according to the BBC


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## T & P (Aug 8, 2011)

And Leeds, according to twitter (as reported on another thread here).

Perhaps it's time to change the title of the thread to "the UK".


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## TheGreatSage200 (Aug 8, 2011)

When is it coming to Shepherds Bush?, specifically the apple store in westfield.


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## editor (Aug 8, 2011)

TheGreatSage200 said:


> When is it coming to Shepherds Bush?, specifically the apple store in westfield.


The looters could high five each other as they ran out with the latest iClobber.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 8, 2011)

lopsidedbunny said:


> BBC saying there trouble in East Ham...



Sky saying rail stations shutting, including Barking


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## killer b (Aug 8, 2011)

they're leaving the apple stuff behind, if the pics from comet in tottenham are anything to go by...


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## Leafster (Aug 8, 2011)

Just on a train that passed through East Croydon. There was thick black smoke hanging in the air over West Croydon way. We could smell it before we got there.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Roman Road, Stratford...


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Bow locking down..


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## magneze (Aug 8, 2011)

Retail park in Colliers Wood:





The pic is genuine, only question - is it happening now?


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## smmudge (Aug 8, 2011)

T & P said:


> And Leeds, according to twitter (as reported on another thread here).



There was a shooting in Chapeltown but no riots anywhere and not likely to kick off apparently.


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## 5t3IIa (Aug 8, 2011)

I don't understand the point of this thread  There's 1 thread per riot already.


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## QueenOfGoths (Aug 8, 2011)

Report on the news about looting etc.. in Clapham Junction


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

5t3IIa said:


> I don't understand the point of this thread  There's 1 thread per riot already.



This thread was started last night.


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## TopCat (Aug 8, 2011)

Clapham has gone off..


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## Nanker Phelge (Aug 8, 2011)

Lavender Hill being looted. Live on Sky!


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

East dulwich, Clapham junction...


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## where to (Aug 8, 2011)

think deputy mayor just said they have only 1400 cops on duty right now. gobsmacked at that low number they got 3500 for student demos.

bbc journo now asking about putting army on streets.


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## magneze (Aug 8, 2011)

where to said:


> think deputy mayor just said they have only 1400 cops on duty right now. gobsmacked at that low number they got 3500 for student demos.
> 
> bbc journo now asking about putting army on streets.


That smacked of a mistake. 1400 is very low and probably wasn't a good idea to stick on national news.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 8, 2011)

magneze said:


> Retail park in Colliers Wood:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
no because that's a daytime pic


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## Struwwelpeter (Aug 8, 2011)

where to said:


> think deputy mayor just said they have only 1400 cops on duty right now. gobsmacked at that low number they got 3500 for student demos.
> 
> bbc journo now asking about putting army on streets.



I'm gobsmacked that the police seem to be standing back and watching.  Oh, I forgot, they only wade in and get physical when they are taking on fluffy kids who are unlikely to fight back with rocks and petrol bombs.  I thought that was what riot police were for, but obviously I was wrong.


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## Stoat Boy (Aug 8, 2011)

Struwwelpeter said:


> I'm gobsmacked that the police seem to be standing back and watching. Oh, I forgot, they only wade in and get physical when they are taking on fluffy kids who are unlikely to fight back with rocks and petrol bombs. I thought that was what riot police were for, but obviously I was wrong.



They dont seem to be so backwards when it comes to football fans either.


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## Belushi (Aug 8, 2011)

A friend tells me Woolwich is going off


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## magneze (Aug 8, 2011)

There's quite a few reports about the Tandem Centre in Colliers Wood having various shops alight, but yes I think that pic could be from another time. It is definitely the Tandem Centre tho.


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## ddraig (Aug 8, 2011)

twitter rumour that it is kicking off in Cardiff now!


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## lopsidedbunny (Aug 8, 2011)

Oh great the news corp are now cutting back on reporting like yesterday the "Latest" are not live footage but "old" footage ... so that over with until tomorrow...


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## kenny g (Aug 8, 2011)

Barking- looted, east Ham looted


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## Belushi (Aug 8, 2011)

Argos in Bromley?


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## dylans (Aug 8, 2011)

This government were warned this would happen. They were told that this obsession with slash and burn austerity was going to lead to massive social unrest. It was so predictable. You can't declare war on the poorest people in the country to pay for a bosses crisis. alienate large sections of society and leave people with no future, no hope, no stake in society and nothing to lose and then expect nothing to come of it. The responsibility for these events are entirely with this government. Enjoy your holiday Cameron you Tory bastard because you are flying back to a capital city on fire and its your fault


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## dylans (Aug 8, 2011)

dp


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## gaijingirl (Aug 8, 2011)

Belushi said:


> Argos in Bromley?



Is this a joke?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Aug 8, 2011)

shit if it's kicking off in bromley thats  kinda nuts


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## Belushi (Aug 8, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> Is this a joke?



No, a friend has told me this but I'm unsure if its just a rumour.


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## quimcunx (Aug 8, 2011)

This is apparently Elephant and Castle earlier today.  What sort of vans are those?


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## little_legs (Aug 8, 2011)

dylans said:


> This government were warned this would happen. They were told that this obsession with slash and burn austerity was going to lead to massive social unrest. It was so predictable. You can't declare war on the poorest people in the country to pay for a bosses crisis. alienate large sections of society and leave people with no future, no hope, no stake in society and nothing to lose and then expect nothing to come of it. The responsibility for these events are entirely with this government. Enjoy your holiday Cameron you Tory bastard because you are flying back to a capital city on fire and its your fault



yes, but as per May 'the British did not respond to austerity by rioting on the streets'.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/sep/15/theresa-may-cut-police-budget-without-violent-unrest


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## TopCat (Aug 8, 2011)

Can never recollect so many places kicking off at once. Logistic hell for police.


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## gaijingirl (Aug 8, 2011)

Belushi said:


> No, a friend has told me this but I'm unsure if its just a rumour.



thanks - do update if you hear more.


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## TopCat (Aug 8, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> This is apparently Elephant and Castle earlier today. What sort of vans are those?



We should run a book on how long before one of the plods new toys gets torched.


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## Belushi (Aug 8, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Can never recollect so many places kicking off at once. Logistic hell for police.



Met have completely lost control of the streets.


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## Mr.Bishie (Aug 8, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> This is apparently Elephant and Castle earlier today. What sort of vans are those?




Plod armored riot vans - called 'pigs' in NI


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## story (Aug 8, 2011)

Has this been posted yet?


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## gunneradt (Aug 8, 2011)

same areas as the 80s - big yawn


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## Mr.Bishie (Aug 8, 2011)

TopCat said:


> We should run a book on how long before one of the plods new toys gets torched.



They brought them out for G20, but didn't use.


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## noodles (Aug 8, 2011)

dylans said:


> This government were warned this would happen. They were told that this obsession with slash and burn austerity was going to lead to massive social unrest. It was so predictable. You can't declare war on the poorest people in the country to pay for a bosses crisis. alienate large sections of society and leave people with no future, no hope, no stake in society and nothing to lose and then expect nothing to come of it. The responsibility for these events are entirely with this government. Enjoy your holiday Cameron you Tory bastard because you are flying back to a capital city on fire and its your fault



So 1997-2010, the formative years of these cunts, has nothing to do with it? OK. I don't buy that, personally.


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## Mr.Bishie (Aug 8, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> same areas as the 80s - big yawn



Go to bed if you're tired.


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## where to (Aug 8, 2011)

PaulLewis Paul Lewis  

Turkish man: "We're protecting our homes. This is war." #hackney
59 seconds ago







PaulLewis Paul Lewis  

Kingsland Road chaotic as Turkish men attack other, predominantly black, youths with sticks, metal barricades and bricks. #hackney
3 minutes ago




PaulLewis Paul Lewis  

Violent clashes now on Kingsland Road, Hackney, as hundreds of Turkish men attack others youths #hackney


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## T & P (Aug 8, 2011)

Clapham Junction, Northcote Rd. and Clapham Common have been done up too, according to the Beeb.


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## Blagsta (Aug 8, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> same areas as the 80s - big yawn



I don't remember Croydon being torched in the 80s. You got a news report?


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## quimcunx (Aug 8, 2011)

dylans said:


> This government were warned this would happen. They were told that this obsession with slash and burn austerity was going to lead to massive social unrest. It was so predictable. You can't declare war on the poorest people in the country to pay for a bosses crisis. alienate large sections of society and leave people with no future, no hope, no stake in society and nothing to lose and then expect nothing to come of it. The responsibility for these events are entirely with this government. Enjoy your holiday Cameron you Tory bastard because you are flying back to a capital city on fire and its your fault



Do you post these comments on news articles etc rather than just here?  I hope so.


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## Leafster (Aug 8, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> I don't remember Croydon being torched in the 80s. You got a news report?


I don't remember anything happening in Croydon then apart from perhaps MacDonalds in West Croydon being burnt out but I can't remember why.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

My family on the phone from The Gambia...Reports there are saying that the army are collecting at Bank...FFs!


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## quimcunx (Aug 8, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> My family on the phone from The Gambia...Reports there are saying that the army are collecting at Bank...FFs!



  Rumourtastic.


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## ddraig (Aug 8, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> My family on the phone from The Gambia...Reports there are saying that the army are collecting at Bank...FFs!


there is a twitter post which obviously is not from this country that has a pic with loads of tanks and people in what looks like a square, no way is it bank


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## likesfish (Aug 8, 2011)

Think the police may have hung back clubbing black youths on tv might not help but then again that's probably a moot point at this point.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> Rumourtastic.



Innit...my ears are ringing...they insist I call every family member in London and then report back!


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

likesfish said:


> Think the police may have hung back clubbing black youths on tv might not help but then again that's probably a moot point at this point.



Go away.


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 8, 2011)

ddraig said:


> there is a twitter post which obviously is not from this country that has a pic with loads of tanks and people in what looks like a square, no way is it bank


It's from Egypt apparently.


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## toblerone3 (Aug 8, 2011)

Stuff going on now in Camden Town and Kentish Town.


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## toblerone3 (Aug 8, 2011)




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## likesfish (Aug 8, 2011)

Nearest tanks are in Wiltshire can't see the army bringing them
down not exactly how they'd help.


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## Fedayn (Aug 8, 2011)

BBC producer in Woolwich now, estimates 3-400 on the High Street looting.


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## smmudge (Aug 8, 2011)

Apparently kicking off in Ealing as well now? so says twitter


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## MellySingsDoom (Aug 8, 2011)

Just heard (after getting in from being out) that Clapham Junction has been hit  - it's 15 mins walk from here (here is very, deathly quiet....) - any Urbans know what happened?  Just getting reports so far of looting etc....


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## gunneradt (Aug 8, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> I don't remember Croydon being torched in the 80s. You got a news report?


hackney, lewisham, brixton, peckham, scum hart lane all went last time

croydons south of the river so no surprise


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

toblerone3 said:


> Stuff going on now in Camden Town and Kentish Town.


Was working there all day and spotted groups gathering from the overground on my way back to Dalston Kingsland at 5pm.


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## toblerone3 (Aug 8, 2011)

Electric Ballroom has been smashed up


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 8, 2011)

Woolwich Weatherspoons pub set alight


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## toblerone3 (Aug 8, 2011)

Orpington


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## mincepie (Aug 8, 2011)

Who's writing this sort of stuff???
http://i55.tinypic.com/21cxauf.jpg


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## kenny g (Aug 8, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/634tzr Barking fire ablaze


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## gaijingirl (Aug 8, 2011)

yeah... I saw Orpington too - really find that difficult to believe... still would have found all of this difficult to believe a while ago.


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## ChrisFilter (Aug 8, 2011)

Drove through Croydon. Was pretty mad. Masked kids swarming past the car, thick smoke, riot police. Nice bit of adrenalin.


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## kenny g (Aug 8, 2011)

mincepie said:


> Who's writing this sort of stuff???
> http://i55.tinypic.com/21cxauf.jpg



That's fromm FITWATCH - has just been updated


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 8, 2011)

You're brave Chris


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## gaijingirl (Aug 8, 2011)

My neighbour arrived back in his van with his young daughter in it - said they were close to being attacked in Croydon.. he locked the windows and drove though fast he said.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 8, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> My neighbour arrived back in his van with his young daughter in it - said they were close to being attacked in Croydon.. he locked the windows and drove though fast he said.



That's what I mean.  Unless you need to be out, stay indoors, unless you're very brave or very stupid


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## skitr (Aug 8, 2011)

dylans said:


> This government were warned this would happen. They were told that this obsession with slash and burn austerity was going to lead to massive social unrest. It was so predictable. You can't declare war on the poorest people in the country to pay for a bosses crisis. alienate large sections of society and leave people with no future, no hope, no stake in society and nothing to lose and then expect nothing to come of it. The responsibility for these events are entirely with this government. Enjoy your holiday Cameron you Tory bastard because you are flying back to a capital city on fire and its your fault



They were warned in particular by, yes you've guessed it... Clegg himself.


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## MellySingsDoom (Aug 8, 2011)

Looks like there's summat happening outside - just shut all the windows etc - this might be an "interesting" night here...


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 8, 2011)

In Shepherds Bush, several shops and pubs have apparently been advised to close by the police, despite there basically being nothing going on here. Even down to Hammersmith.


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## ddraig (Aug 8, 2011)

Clapham Junction video from sky reporter

nutter!


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## Part 2 (Aug 8, 2011)

ddraig said:


> Clapham Junction video from sky reporter
> 
> nutter!




Not too surprising they ditched the video recorder


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## MellySingsDoom (Aug 8, 2011)

^^^Blimey.  What was that journo thinking of? Thought it'd be worse down the road there, to be honest...


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## cybertect (Aug 8, 2011)

BBC are reporting a shopping centre in Ealing is on fire.


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## Griff (Aug 8, 2011)

Ealing shopping centre on fire according to the Beeb


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Ealing on BBC now!


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## Starflesh (Aug 8, 2011)

This is gonna get worse before it gets better.


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## Belushi (Aug 8, 2011)

Old Kent Road now


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Tower Bridge.


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## Griff (Aug 8, 2011)

Fucking hell, this is just insane now.


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## beekeeper (Aug 8, 2011)

Chip Barm said:


> Not too surprising they ditched the video recorder



... and that Waterstones was untouched ...


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## rekil (Aug 8, 2011)

Any news from Stonebridge Park/Harlseden?


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## Teepee (Aug 8, 2011)

just had to share this quote i saw on facebook:

If they have such a problem with the police why do something that is going involve lots of police fighting agaisnt them. Some people are idiots


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## editor (Aug 8, 2011)

Best looting shot so far: rampaging hoodies and a public schoolboy






http://twitpic.com/6342h1


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## Teepee (Aug 8, 2011)

Anyone heard anything about Twickenham stadium? I've heard rumours but don't know how reliable they are


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Woolwich
Isle of Dogs


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## editor (Aug 8, 2011)

ddraig said:


> Clapham Junction video from sky reporter


I'm guessing the fella must have been quite a big bloke to go around accosting and haranguing looters!


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## Starflesh (Aug 8, 2011)

I think to myself: "why am I not out there doing this and what would it take for me to be out there joining in?"  i guess if i were poorly educated, spent a lot of time on the streets, saw all my mates doing it, had a limited moral vocabulary, valued material things in a big way, and were unemployed i might do.


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## bi0boy (Aug 8, 2011)

editor said:


> Best looting shot so far: rampaging hoodies and a public schoolboy
> 
> http://twitpic.com/6342h1



That has to be a mannequin, surely?


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 8, 2011)

editor said:


> Best looting shot so far: rampaging hoodies and a public schoolboy
> 
> http://twitpic.com/6342h1





Where's that?


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 8, 2011)

Starflesh said:


> I think to myself: "why am I not out there doing this and what would it take for me to be out there joining in?" i guess if i were poorly educated, spent a lot of time on the streets, saw all my mates doing it, had a limited moral vocabulary, valued material things in a big way, and were unemployed i might do.



Add to that although your words/descriptions imply it...Lack of self-esteem, opportunity, internalised prejudice, self- worth, value for /self others, for some laziness and complacency...people as commodities, be rich or you are worthless, nothing to lose, no fear.


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## Griff (Aug 8, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> That has to be a mannequin, surely?


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## Yossarian (Aug 9, 2011)

[quote="Rutita1']*"'When you cut facilities, slash jobs, abuse power, discriminate, drive people into deeper poverty and shoot people dead whilst refusing to provide answers or justice, the people will rise up and express their anger and frustration if you refuse to hear their cries. A riot is the language of the unheard." Martin Luther King.*[/quote]

The only part of that Martin Luther King said was "a riot is the language of the unheard."


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## ddraig (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> Best looting shot so far: rampaging hoodies and a public schoolboy
> 
> 
> 
> ...




from the comments


> He's polite, he's English......... he's queuing


----------



## T & P (Aug 9, 2011)

According to Sky the Met has ordered all London football clubs to call off their matches... I'm not clear if they're talking about this Saturday's matches, or just weekday games.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Woolwich
> Isle of Dogs



Woolwich kicked off a while ago.  A Weatherspoons pub was on fire (assuming it was correct info)


----------



## gunneradt (Aug 9, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Lo...bring-them-to-justice/148831985199653?sk=wall


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 9, 2011)

The banks, the government, the whole media and the police are absolutely indistinguishable from the set of criminals running the streets tonight. Why are people moaning about a few buildings? The rioters would have to burn down another million buildings before they did the damage those ruthless cunts in uniform and suits have done!" Paul Heaton.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Woolwich kicked off a while ago. A Weatherspoons pub was on fire (assuming it was correct info)


saw a pic and did look like Woolwich


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

Feels like society is on the brink of collapse.  Might get into the brown.


----------



## Griff (Aug 9, 2011)

Big shop on fire opposite Debenhams at Clapham Junction according to the Beeb.


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

BBC have a reporter on the spot saying a building opposite Arding & Hobbs [Debenhams] at Clapham Junction has just been set on fire.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 9, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Lo...bring-them-to-justice/148831985199653?sk=wall


got one for the bankers you tiresome twat?


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

juice_terry said:


> The banks, the government, the whole media and the police are absolutely indistinguishable from the set of criminals running the streets tonight. Why are people moaning about a few buildings? The rioters would have to burn down another million buildings before they did the damage those ruthless cunts in uniform and suits have done!" Paul Heaton.



Because it is happening now.  Those other things have been talked about also as they happened.  And this is far more blatant.  It is not subtle, requiring lengthy explanations.  It is there, on the screen, in digital colour.  Flames etc.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Big society? ...Speak to us David you twat!


----------



## IC3D (Aug 9, 2011)

Going off in Wood Green/Turnpike Lane again


----------



## Griff (Aug 9, 2011)




----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Chalk Farm


----------



## Dan U (Aug 9, 2011)

next to bloody dub vendor!


----------



## ferrelhadley (Aug 9, 2011)

> Reliable reports of riots now in *Camden*, *Notting Hill* and *Colliers Wood*.


From Guardian


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

I blame the polar bears.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 9, 2011)

Griff said:


>



oh fuck


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

Here's the BBC's listing of where's being affected (as of 11:20)


> *NORTH*
> 
> *Camden: *Camden High Street, Chalk Farm Road
> 
> ...


And here's a natty map:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ms...&ll=51.489935,-0.030212&spn=0.431813,1.352692


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 9, 2011)

Griff said:


>



Holy fuck - trying to remember that shp now - is Dub Vendor going to be next???


----------



## gunneradt (Aug 9, 2011)

ddraig said:


> got one for the bankers you tiresome twat?



the bankers - you sound like a football manager blaming relegation on transfers three seasons ago


----------



## ddraig (Aug 9, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> the bankers - you sound like a football manager blaming relegation on transfers three seasons ago


 you are a total joke, bless


----------



## WWWeed (Aug 9, 2011)

Dan U said:


> next to bloody dub vendor!



Thats what I was thinking! The heat is going to warp everything (assuming the place doesn't burn down as well)


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 9, 2011)

Starflesh said:


> I blame the polar bears.


They are not daft enough to set fire to their own icebergs


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 9, 2011)

stokie safe as houses thanx to turkish shop keepers seeing off the "mob"

http://bit.ly/opXfRh


----------



## Zabo (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> Here's the BBC's listing of where's being affected (as of 11:20)
> 
> And here's a natty map:
> http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?msid=207192798388318292131.0004aa01af6748773e8f7&msa=0&ll=51.489935,-0.030212&spn=0.431813,1.352692



Not sure I like Google's wig-wams!


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

juice_terry said:


> They are not daft enough to set fire to their own icebergs



Probably the whole rioting thing was orchestrated by Greenpeace to cover up what polar bears are doing to posh kids.
Hilarity aside, it is bloody mental. That is my official position. The mental bit, not the polar bears.


----------



## Dan U (Aug 9, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Holy fuck - trying to remember that shp now - is Dub Vendor going to be next???



its next to the Party shop, where they fill up helium balloons.. police worried about cannisters apparently


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 9, 2011)

Dan U said:


> its next to the Party shop, where they fill up helium balloons.. police worried about cannisters apparently



Cheers Dan - yes, the party shop - I can well believe they have compresed gas in there.


----------



## Dan U (Aug 9, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Cheers Dan - yes, the party shop - I can well believe they have compresed gas in there.



they definitely do, i've seen them selling weird shaped balloons. scary shit.

my brother is now saying its 'wave 2' round battersea rise where he lives


----------



## gunneradt (Aug 9, 2011)

ddraig said:


> you are a total joke, bless


keep up the good work

with any luck a few more rotten areas will have burned to the ground by morning.  What never ceases to amaze me is how these morons shit on their own doorstep.


----------



## weepiper (Aug 9, 2011)

reporter on BBC just said the party shop is on fire and residents being evacuated because of the helium


----------



## Teepee (Aug 9, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> keep up the good work
> 
> with any luck a few more rotten areas will have burned to the ground by morning. What never ceases to amaze me is how these morons shit on their own doorstep.


idiot


----------



## T & P (Aug 9, 2011)

Witness at Clapham just saying on the BBC the party shop is on fire and the police are asking residents to evacuate as they fear an explosion.

Fuck...


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

Dan U said:


> next to bloody dub vendor!



Shit. I was thinking they meant the other side of St John's Road.

Not Dub Vendor to top everything else this evening.


----------



## Zabo (Aug 9, 2011)

I suppose when this is all over I'm going to have to buy a new box of Monopoly.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> keep up the good work
> 
> with any luck a few more rotten areas will have burned to the ground by morning. What never ceases to amaze me is how these morons shit on their own doorstep.


As much as I dislike the opinons you spout here (understatement) I agree with you about this kicking off in local areas...this is so wide spread and with such numbers of people engaging, I can only lament that Westminister is not ablaze.


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

If that compressed gas goes off, then Dub Vendor's gonna be in deep trouble


----------



## peterkro (Aug 9, 2011)

Police moving people back from shop because of fears of Helium explosion,it's been a while since I was at school but isn't helium an inert gas.(it is true the bottles are under pressure however they will take a long time for them to split and then they'll be unguided missiles not explosives)


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> the bankers - you sound like a football manager blaming relegation on transfers three seasons ago



yeah, the global  banking heist/bailout was ages ago, and has had no lasting effect , stock markets now all looking good etc.


----------



## Corax (Aug 9, 2011)

What's the betting Cameron tries to impose a curfew tomorrow?


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 9, 2011)

It's unlikely to be highly pressurised plus, obviously, helium is inert.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Notting Hill – Ledbury Restaurant has been raided and the diners mugged. Kitchen staff apparently came out wielding knives.


----------



## Corax (Aug 9, 2011)

Hydrogen apparently.  Would a party shop have cylinders of that?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 9, 2011)

peterkro said:


> Police moving people back from shop because of fears of Helium explosion,it's been a while since I was at school but isn't helium an inert gas.(it is true the bottles are under pressure however they will take a long time for them to split and then they'll be unguided missiles not explosives)



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_liquid_expanding_vapor_explosion
(however, this is pretty unlikey unless they have some rather sophisticated helium equipment/storage)


----------



## gunneradt (Aug 9, 2011)

cantsin said:


> yeah, the global banking heist/bailout was ages ago, and has had no lasting effect , stock markets now all looking good etc.



like some mong in Tottenham has even heard of any crisis in the banking sector!!  All hes interested in is an LG 42 inch  LCD


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Notting Hill – Ledbury Restaurant has been raided and the diners mugged. Kitchen staff apparently came out wielding knives.



At half 12 in the morning?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 9, 2011)

Corax said:


> Hydrogen apparently. Would a party shop have cylinders of that?


No. Storing hydrogen is not something a high-street shop would be doing. It's cryogenic and an absolute bastard to store and transport. Specialised industry only.


----------



## Corax (Aug 9, 2011)

Crispy said:


> No. Storing hydrogen is not something a high-street shop would be doing. It's cryogenic and an absolute bastard to store and transport. Specialised industry only.


BBC talking shite in that case!


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 9, 2011)

its going to be a bumper year for some it would seem so far - sure the FT will advise to go long cash converter equity


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> At half 12 in the morning?



Yeah, it's on a pretty reliable website I was looking at yesterday but I think it's now relying on Twitter.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Yeah, it's on a pretty reliable website I was looking at yesterday but I think it's now relying on Twitter so could be bollox.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Corax said:


> What's the betting Cameron tries to impose a curfew tomorrow?




'All dressed in uniforms of brutality'

Not just referring to the police with this either...as posted last night.


----------



## peterkro (Aug 9, 2011)

Crispy said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_liquid_expanding_vapor_explosion
> (however, this is pretty unlikey unless they have some rather sophisticated helium equipment/storage)



They didn't go that far at my school,plus I wasn't there very often,seems unlikely given the bottles will have relief valves.


----------



## dylans (Aug 9, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> Do you post these comments on news articles etc rather than just here? I hope so.



yeah I post in the Guardian's CIF comments section under the name dancing roads


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

Where are the police in all of this? Are they just getting outflanked?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Think about it...How many police officers would you need spread out over these areas to maintain order?


----------



## quimcunx (Aug 9, 2011)

dylans said:


> yeah I post in the Guardian's CIF comments section under the name dancing roads



You should do the torygraph and DailyFail too.   hup to.


----------



## quimcunx (Aug 9, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Where are the police in all of this? Are they just getting outflanked?



It's not like a planned march where they can plan to have enough police on the ground. It's reactive.  And you're not going to get Manchester sending down theirs because it could go off there any moment.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Tottenham Court Road
Kings Road

Can anyone confirm?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 9, 2011)

its like fucking mega city one out there at the minute


----------



## TruXta (Aug 9, 2011)

Please please say it moves to Chelsea and Knightsbrigde. Obv. no riots would be preferrable..


----------



## Dr. Furface (Aug 9, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> It's not like a planned march where they can plan to have enough police on the ground. It's reactive. And you're not going to get Manchester sending down theirs because it could go off there any moment.


Police reportedly being drafted in from Norfolk and Suffolk - they're in for a fucking shock!


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Please please say it moves to Chelsea and Knightsbrigde. Obv. no riots would be preferrable..


Eh?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> At half 12 in the morning?



Couple of tweets here about it

http://twitter.com/#!/search/Ledbury


----------



## pinkmonkey (Aug 9, 2011)

not-bono-ever said:


> its like fucking mega city one out there at the minute


its surreal.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> It's not like a planned march where they can plan to have enough police on the ground. It's reactive. And you're not going to get Manchester sending down theirs because it could go off there any moment.



To what degree is it a mobile group of rioters rather than multiple independent groups? Is it people travelling around and causing trouble in other areas, or is it local youth doing it in their own areas?


----------



## Shevek (Aug 9, 2011)

quimcunx said:


> It's not like a planned march where they can plan to have enough police on the ground. It's reactive. And you're not going to get Manchester sending down theirs because it could go off there any moment.



It's happened in Birmingham so it could easily happen in Manchester. I was on Market Street about 7pm this evening trying to buy a laptop power supply but the atmosphere seemed normal.


----------



## Griff (Aug 9, 2011)

A picture from another site - Liverpool.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

I've got to say, the BBC are providing really piss-poor coverage compared to Sky. Still showing footage from a good few hours ago.


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 9, 2011)

Any council offices been attacked yet? That's where i'd aim for


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Please please say it moves to Chelsea and Knightsbrigde. Obv. no riots would be preferrable..



posh 2 star michelin restaurant the Ledbury in Notting Hill , punters made to lie on the floor as looters robbed them - whichever way you want to look at it , getting closer to all out class conflict there tbh :

http://twitter.com/#!/search/Ledbury


----------



## Griff (Aug 9, 2011)

Police station in Birmingham on fire.


----------



## TruXta (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Eh?



Let the rich eat what they have sown. Rather them than us.


----------



## Griff (Aug 9, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4pcbiO4flY&hd=1

Woolwich footage, seriously over-run


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, this is landmark, that is for sure -- something we will measure this decade by, whether it ends sooner or later.


----------



## juice_terry (Aug 9, 2011)

Just on sky, going off in toxteth now, really giving it to the police in the footage


----------



## treelover (Aug 9, 2011)

'Police station in Birmingham on fire. '

link?


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

The question is: will we be referring back to these events as the UK Riots or just the London Riots?  Birmingham already taken the baton.  Who else?


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

juice_terry said:


> Just on sky, going off in toxteth now, really giving it to the police in the footage



And so it spreads...


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

BBC confirming trouble in Liverpool.


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

DJ Stop in Lavender Hill has been done over. Another independent small business. The cunts.
http://www.djstop.co.uk/


----------



## Griff (Aug 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'Police station in Birmingham on fire. '
> 
> link?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-14452468


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

And my mate's drum store nearby looks to be next


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Aug 9, 2011)

BBC coverage is shit and I dont have Sky so I suppose I'll go to bed and see what's left of our city when I wake up


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

The Armani store in Brum has just been cleared out so expect to see some stylish looters back out on the streets.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-14452468


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> DJ Stop in Lavender Hill has been done over. Another independent small business. The cunts.
> http://www.djstop.co.uk/



Fuck, that's near me - I can hear sirens going off and stuff.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> And my mate's drum store nearby looks to be next



Holy crap - Drumshack!   Drums, guitars and the works in that.

Model store next too?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Quick count, I think it's 51 places hit tonight (London areas)

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ms...&ll=51.558503,-0.055275&spn=0.114195,0.298691


----------



## ferrelhadley (Aug 9, 2011)

Jesus why do I fear them really over reacting and making everything worse.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Just seen a report of an elderly woman in Clapham awaking to find looters in her house


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2011)

Lol moment when watching coverage earlier - some kids were trying to break into Ladbrokes.

What are they going to nick? Those little fucking pens?


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Holy crap - Drumshack! Drums, guitars and the works in that.
> 
> Model store next too?


My mate's really upset but there's fuck all he can do. It would be suicide to go down there and try and reason with the looters.


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Lol moment when watching coverage earlier - some kids were trying to break into Ladbrokes.
> 
> What are they going to nick? Those little fucking pens?


They bravely smashed into the William Hill opposite me and quite probably made off with a year's supply of those little pens.


----------



## Teepee (Aug 9, 2011)

I've heard that locals in tooting are defending the streets with baseball bats


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> They bravely smashed into the William Hill opposite me and quite probably made off with a year's supply of those little pens.


they could have gone in and asked and they'd have got a lifetime's supply.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

The betting shops can goooooooooooooooooo, not gonna mourn them.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 9, 2011)

ferrelhadley said:


> Jesus why do I fear them really over reacting and making everything worse.


cos that's what will happen? inevitably.


----------



## Citizen66 (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> They bravely smashed into the William Hill opposite me and quite probably made off with a year's supply of those little pens.



They'll flood the market with them and put Biro out of business.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> They bravely smashed into the William Hill opposite me and quite probably made off with a year's supply of those little pens.



Just shows what idiots they are really.  Those pens only last about 5 minutes before they run out ink


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> My mate's really upset but there's fuck all he can do. It would be suicide to go down there and try and reason with the looters.



That's literally 3 mins walk from here.  Police sirens etc going off at the moment.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Teepee said:


> I've heard that locals in tooting are defending the streets with baseball bats



Good on them.  I heard about some Turkish guys (can't remember where though) defending their shops


----------



## Shevek (Aug 9, 2011)

The police seem to be letting it happen. Can't Cameron get in front of a television camera?


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 9, 2011)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> BBC coverage is shit and I dont have Sky so I suppose I'll go to bed and see what's left of our city when I wake up



Sky News is available online at http://tvcatchup.com


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Good on them. I heard about some Turkish guys (can't remember where though) defending their shops



Stokey.


----------



## story (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Good on them. I heard about some Turkish guys (can't remember where though) defending their shops



Dalston, I think.

ETA Oh, Rutita1 says otherwise.


----------



## mysterygirl (Aug 9, 2011)

Innova Park just outside Enfield exploded a little while ago - the Sony Centre.  Masses of black smoke. A brief mention on BBC news, saying the fire is a considerable size.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Shevek said:


> The police seem to be letting it happen. Can't Cameron get in front of a television camera?



What would you have them do though?  They go in there arresting people, it's only going to kick off worse


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

story said:


> Dalston, I think.
> 
> ETA Oh, Rutita1 says otherwise.



Yeah, that sounds about right.  Must admit, I'm not even sure *exactly* where Dalston is


----------



## Shevek (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> What would you have them do though? They go in there arresting people, it's only going to kick off worse



No I don't know Minnie. It just seems to be spreading but no-one can stop them.


----------



## Dan U (Aug 9, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwOXaik4L4&feature=youtu.be

police making an arrest, with some force, and being cheered on in clapham

this is what happens when the police leave an area unattended i guess


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Shevek said:


> No I don't know Minnie. It just seems to be spreading but no-one can stop them.



A giant trebuchet and catapult them all into the nearest river.  Cool and calm them down a bit


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

story said:


> Dalston, I think.
> 
> ETA Oh, Rutita1 says otherwise.



Dalston and Stokey are next to eachother...plenty of space for crossover.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Dan U said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwOXaik4L4&feature=youtu.be
> 
> police making an arrest, with some force, and being cheered on in clapham
> 
> this is what happens when the police leave an area unattended i guess



Yeah, just heard that.  Maybe if the police everywhere else realise that there are people that want an end to this nonsense, they'll be brave enough to start arresting them, although there is a risk of exacerbating the situation even further


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Dlaston and Stokey are next to eachother...plenty of space for crossover.



oh right


----------



## Shevek (Aug 9, 2011)

Just drop a load of plastic balls onto the streets and make the roads into a giant ball-pool.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Shevek said:


> Just drop a load of plastic balls onto the streets and make the roads into a giant ball-pool.


 
or let them all go rolling over on their arses


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Aug 9, 2011)

http://www.justin.tv/sangattelevisi...utm_source=sangattelevision.org#/w/1591932928

Live coverage from Birmingham. No sound though for some reason. Channel 847 if you have Sky.


----------



## Shevek (Aug 9, 2011)

Give out free Mc Donalds at the Millenium Dome


----------



## pesh (Aug 9, 2011)

this is pretty mental... clapham rioter being caught and beaten by the police to the cheers of the locals


----------



## Teepee (Aug 9, 2011)

pesh said:


> this is pretty mental... clapham rioter being caught and beaten by the police to the cheers of the locals



 oof


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

Apologies for the Mail link but there's some great pics in here - with loads of doofuses smashing up stuff or carting away looted gear with their faces clearly visible to all 







http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023874/LONDON-RIOTS-David-Cameron-returns-home-police-face-gangs-petrol-bombs.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2023932/London-riots-Powerless-police-let-mob-seize-streets-loot-start-fires-violence-spreads.html

And here's a bunch of cowards kicking fuck out of a photographer in Brum:


----------



## bluestreak (Aug 9, 2011)

Shevek said:


> Give out free Mc Donalds at the Millenium Dome



they're making their own mcdonalds meals when they break into them.


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

BBC Chopper is over Dub Vendor at Clapham Junction. That's not looking too good.


----------



## Urbanblues (Aug 9, 2011)

Watching the BBC News at just after midnight an on-the-spot reporter at Clapham Junction (she’d alighted from her train to be confronted by looting and mayhem) was describing a fire that was engulfing the building opposite Debenhams.


By her voice she was clearly concerned, to the point of stating that she hoped everyone had escaped the building. As she was describing a potentially disastrous situation, the BBC news presenter, in his safe and comfy office, kept pressing her for news of the looting that had occurred in Debenhams.
God bless the BBC and its priorities!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> Apologies for the Mail link but there's some great pics in here - with loads of doofuses smashing up stuff or carting away looted gear with their faces clearly visible to all
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Despite the bile they spout, the Daily Mail often has great pictures


----------



## Dan U (Aug 9, 2011)

this is the big sony fire apparently..

https://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=10150256738506994&comments


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Sony Centre in flames

http://yfrog.com/mdi5gz


----------



## ferrelhadley (Aug 9, 2011)

Baton rounds and gas by tomorrow

PSNI water canons also likely to be called <me guessing>


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, I'm sure some elements in the police are looking forward to shooting citizens repeatedly in the face for "being cheeky" or otherwise failing to repect their authoritay.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 9, 2011)

Nothing happening on Red Clydeside (Glasgow).

Hope everyone stays safe tonight.


----------



## story (Aug 9, 2011)

Urbanblues said:


> Watching the BBC News at just after midnight an on-the-spot reporter at Clapham Junction (she’d alighted from her train to be confronted by looting and mayhem) was describing a fire that was engulfing the building opposite Debenhams.
> 
> By her voice she was clearly concerned, to the point of stating that she hoped everyone had escaped the building. As she was describing a potentially disastrous situation, the BBC news presenter, in his safe and comfy office, kept pressing her for news of the looting that had occurred in Debenhams.
> God bless the BBC and its priorities!


 
Yer, that weirded me out a bit too.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

National Express have suspended all suburban stops in London but will continue to serve Golders Green and London Victoria


----------



## Dowie (Aug 9, 2011)

This is scummy as 

http://www.facebook.com/video/video....50333636850851


----------



## dynamicbaddog (Aug 9, 2011)

this riot clean up idea seems to have taken off
http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=#riotcleanup

anything happening in your area tomorrow?

http://twitter.com/#!/Riotcleanup


----------



## gabe2 (Aug 9, 2011)

Dowie said:


> This is scummy as
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/video/video....50333636850851



Looks like a buncha Vancouver rioter wannabes to me - copycat thugs


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Waltham Abbey? What?


----------



## peterkro (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Waltham Abbey? What?


Sainsburys make have some supply problems in the short term.

Whoops it's the Sony distribution centre not Sainsburys.


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 9, 2011)

Dowie said:


> This is scummy as
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/video/video....50333636850851



There seems increasing reports of scummy stuff happening, attacks on people, people being dragged from cars, looting of homes, etc.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 9, 2011)

peterkro said:


> Sainsburys make have some supply problems in the short term.



Some 750 people might have trouble going to work tomorrow at that depot. Will it mean dole for them now?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Lots of reports of kids trying to break into Blockbusters in Streatham.  Probably need some DVDs to go in their nice new shiny DVD players.  Latest one is good though

Maqora The Black Watch  

“@TomDearsley: Police chasing down pinning down guys who attacked blockbuster with dogs! GO POLICE GO! #*streatham*” #Balham
Not sure the Blockbusters was attacked with dogs though


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 9, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> There seems increasing reports of scummy stuff happening, attacks on people, people being dragged from cars, looting of homes, etc.



The looting looks scummy and hardly political at all. In fact most of the pictures/images I've seen could and probably will be used by EDL/BNP to recruit. It's that shit....


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Someone has said Blockbusters has now been set alight

ETA:  I have no idea what a smokecloak is



> TomDearsley Tom Dearsley
> 
> Blockbuster is NOT on fire, its a smokecloak designed to activate when broken into #*streatham*


----------



## where to (Aug 9, 2011)

Dowie said:


> This is scummy as
> 
> http://www.facebook.com/video/video....50333636850851



filth.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 9, 2011)

So, In the future will this looting and burning spree be refered to by academic leftists as "the great riots of London" or will they be known as a scummy consumerist hoodie rampage.


----------



## belboid (Aug 9, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> So, In the future will this looting and burning spree be refered to by academic leftists as "the great riots of London" or will they be known as a scummy consumerist hoodie rampage.


dunno, but I guess by 'in the future', we wont need to make dumb kneejerk reaction statements based on precious few facts


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Is anyone else worrying that come the morning, there's going to be people found in burnt out properties?


----------



## Voley (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Is anyone else worrying that come the morning, there's going to be people found in burnt out properties?


I was just thinking that Minnie. That photo of the person jumping from the building was worrying.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 9, 2011)

belboid said:


> dunno, but I guess by 'in the future', we wont need to make dumb kneejerk reaction statements based on precious few facts



How about watching 60 odd videos on youtube, freshly uploaded. Is that not enough for you? These kids aren't political. They may be acting thru desperation as people at the bottom feeling the pinch of the crisis but what is happening is shit. They are putting innocent poeple's lives in danger and behaving like cunts. They are not just pissing on their own doorstep but on their neighbours too.


----------



## Urbanblues (Aug 9, 2011)

Christ, this is awful. How the hell can people justify these levels of endangerment?


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Is anyone else worrying that come the morning, there's going to be people found in burnt out properties?



Yes.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

CUNTS.  

Not sure where this is, but obviously London somewhere (maybe Barking?)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

NVP said:


> I was just thinking that Minnie. That photo of the person jumping from the building was worrying.



I wonder if a single one of these looters has thought about it?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 9, 2011)

Why blame the banks or march on parliament or fight the cuts when it's easier to just smack some poor cunt in the mouth and rob them or set fire to a shop.


----------



## TruXta (Aug 9, 2011)

Urbanblues said:


> Christ, this is awful. How the hell can people justify these levels of endangerment?



Shown to be fake I believe.


----------



## Voley (Aug 9, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Shown to be fake I believe.


Is it? I hope so.


----------



## belboid (Aug 9, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> How about watching 60 odd videos on youtube, freshly uploaded. Is that not enough for you? These kids aren't political. They may be acting thru desperation as people at the bottom feeling the pinch of the crisis but what is happening is shit. They are putting innocent poeple's lives in danger and behaving like cunts.


phew, for a moment you were going to come out with something wildly assumptive based upon some dubious, third hand, reports and dodgy videos!


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 9, 2011)

Personally, I don't think this level of endangerment can be justified.


----------



## Dan U (Aug 9, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Shown to be fake I believe.



no, its not fake. those are croydon tram signs. on the croydon thread the exact location has been identified.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

NVP said:


> Is it? I hope so.



I hope so.  I wondered if it was fake when it was put up, but when I saw it was a newspaper, I believed it ('cos I'm gullible like that )


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Dan U said:


> no, its not fake. those are croydon tram signs. on the croydon thread the exact location has been identified.



oh


----------



## DrRingDing (Aug 9, 2011)

equationgirl said:


> Personally, I don't think this level of endangerment can be justified.



Quite.


----------



## TruXta (Aug 9, 2011)

Dan U said:


> no, its not fake. those are croydon tram signs. on the croydon thread the exact location has been identified.



OK, saw someone saying those were foreign signs in the picture. Hard to keep up with all this info, should go to bed really.


----------



## Dan U (Aug 9, 2011)

this is the link. and yeah its easily done Truxta..

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=che...H3io4SY17KYCfCNlqRAa8g&cbp=12,142.31,,1,-8.31


----------



## TruXta (Aug 9, 2011)

Cheers Dan.


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Sony Centre in flames
> 
> http://yfrog.com/mdi5gz



Just watching the fire on the BBC, fuck me that's a big warehouse, or should I say was - there's not much of it left now.


----------



## Voley (Aug 9, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Just watching the fire on the BBC, fuck me that's a big warehouse, or should I say was - there's not much of it left now.


Yeah, I thought that carpet store in Croydon was bad ...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Just watching the fire on the BBC, fuck me that's a big warehouse, or should I say was - there's not much of it left now.



and lots of people now probably jobless.  It's not like it's a local Tesco that's burn down and the staff can be moved to other shops is it


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 9, 2011)

Fucking hell. I was driving back from london to leeds tonight and listening to radio 5 with growing disbelief. Its like out of some apocolyptic sci-fi story. Every 20 minutes their were reports of new outbreaks of arson and looting in another part of london - and then bimingham, then liverpool, then manchester and bristol. If this carries on for another 24 hours they'll have the army on the streets of london with baton rounds and tear gas. Unprecendented. Its like the riots of 1981 compressed into 48 hours.

(No reports of anything happening  in leeds, but the police chopper is out over chaple town. )

Looks like there's some pretty ugly shit going on and I too fear people are going to get killed.


----------



## bluestreak (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Not sure the Blockbusters was attacked with dogs though


 
have you ever tried to smash a plate glass window with a dog?  tricky, but doable.  i'd recommend a pitbull, nice bit of heft behind it as you swing it by the back legs.  you only get one chance mind.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

NVP said:


> Yeah, I thought that carpet store in Croydon was bad ...



Do you mean the furniture store, or did a carpet store go up as well?  Or did the furniture store sell carpets?


----------



## Urbanblues (Aug 9, 2011)

belboid said:


> dunno, but I guess by 'in the future', we wont need to make dumb kneejerk reaction statements based on precious few facts



Belboid, I'm living between a few of the areas hit by tonight's 'actions'. As a disabled person, unable to flee from a fire, I feel quite vulnerable - it's no coincidence I'm up at 2.45 am listening to the music of the London Services Orchestra playing on the streets outside my flat.

Yes, black kids are being wrongly targeted (and sadly in the case of Mark Duggan killed) and criminalized by a largely racist Met police force. But, our anger and concern the torching shops in residential areas isn't a 'dumb kneejerk reaction'; our comments and worries for our city are not 'based on precious few facts'. 

Much of the images, video footage and witness reports emerging from these disturbances are not all Fleet Street or TV led. No much of the news we're receiving is from ordinary people on the streets recording images and narratives which are added to social networks for the rest of us to consume. 

Your dismissive attitude is quite glib.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

bluestreak said:


> have you ever tried to smash a plate glass window with a dog? tricky, but doable. i'd recommend a pitbull, nice bit of heft behind it as you swing it by the back legs. you only get one chance mind.



Poor dogs. What have they ever done to deserve such treatment.  

Gangs trying smash into a Bang and Olufssen store in Ealing. Police chasing them away. Protecting the expensive stuff eh


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> and lots of people now probably jobless. It's not like it's a local Tesco that's burn down and the staff can be moved to other shops is it



750 people work there, apparently.


----------



## Voley (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Do you mean the furniture store, or did a carpet store go up as well? Or did the furniture store sell carpets?


Yeah the furniture store. I thought they were saying it was a carpet shop earlier.


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

Carpet shop was in Tottenham.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

cybertect said:


> 750 people work there, apparently.



That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure if they were confusing the numbers with what they thought was a Sainsbury's depot


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 9, 2011)

I just hope nobody dies - police or anybody else.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Carpet shop was in Tottenham.



Yeah, where you could see the girl walking off with the carpet under her arm


----------



## Voley (Aug 9, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Looks like there's some pretty ugly shit going on and I too fear people are going to get killed.



Me an all. I'm off to bed now but hoping I don't wake up to stories of people dead. Hope all U75ers out there are safe.


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure if they were confusing the numbers with what they thought was a Sainsbury's depot



You could be right about that.


----------



## Urbanblues (Aug 9, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Shown to be fake I believe.


Thanks. That is a bit reassuring. 

Still doesn't detract from the reckless torching of buildings. Looting's bad enough, I'll not lose sleep over PC World being trashed and robbed blind; but, setting the place alight without a scintilla of concern for the health and safety of others...that's fucked!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Reports that LFB is running out of water and water pressure in Thornton Heath low  

Not confirmed yet


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Urbanblues said:


> Thanks. That is a bit reassuring.
> 
> Still doesn't detract from the reckless torching of buildings. Looting's bad enough, I'll not lose sleep over PC World being trashed and robbed blind; but, setting the place alight without a scintilla of concern for the health and safety of others...that's fucked!



I read a guy said those street signs weren't UK street signs but as I'm not a driver, I don't really notice signs.  What made me think it was real (apart from it having a Daily Mirror link) was the little green cross which you sometimes see outside of chemists


----------



## belboid (Aug 9, 2011)

Urbanblues said:


> Belboid, I'm living between a few of the areas hit by tonight's 'actions'. As a disabled person, unable to flee from a fire, I feel quite vulnerable - it's no coincidence I'm up at 2.45 am listening to the music of the London Services Orchestra playing on the streets outside my flat.
> 
> Yes, black kids are being wrongly targeted (and sadly in the case of Mark Duggan killed) and criminalized by a largely racist Met police force. But, our anger and concern the torching shops in residential areas isn't a 'dumb kneejerk reaction'; our comments and worries for our city are not 'based on precious few facts'.
> 
> ...


I was talking explicitly to some fool making glib statements about 'lefty academics' and _specifically_ about you tube video's. ie, specifically the unsubstantiated crap which is often shown later to be deeply misleading at best.  clearly there _is_ good reason for many locals to be afraid of and worried about what is happening, i've not said otherwise at any point.  but i do dismiss the notion that it is not at all 'political'


----------



## Kaka Tim (Aug 9, 2011)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v4pcbiO4flY

Full on footage of cops getting chased off the street in woolwich.

(wont embed)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

LFB running short on water may be true



> 0252: Thames Water statement re water pressure:
> “We apologise to customers in SW19 and CR0 who may be experiencing low pressure. ” SW19 is Wimbledon, CR0 is Croydon.


----------



## Urbanblues (Aug 9, 2011)

It's nearly 3 am. Not quite sure why Old Bill feels the need to roar past my flat on the A3, between Oval and Stockwell, on full siren. Fuckers, them and their pals in the helicopters keeping law abiding citizens like me awake...


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I read a guy said those street signs weren't UK street signs but as I'm not a driver, I don't really notice signs. What made me think it was real (apart from it having a Daily Mirror link) was the little green cross which you sometimes see outside of chemists



There's a chemist with exactly such a sign on the corner of Church Street as it turns left into Reeves Corner.

The diamond shaped signs are speed limits for Croydon Tramlink, in km/h

http://tramlink.co.uk/info/glossary.shtml

http://www.ukmotorists.com/tram_signs.asp [bottom of the page]


----------



## Urbanblues (Aug 9, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=v4pcbiO4flY
> 
> Full on footage of cops getting chased off the street in woolwich.
> 
> (wont embed)


8 Old Bill versus about 40 people tooled-up with metal traffic signs and lengths of 2x2 timber. Looked more like a tactical retreat to me. Those 40 odd 'attackers' could have taken on those 8 coppers; but, they didn't did they. All fucking bravado; bluster over bottle.

Sadly, the filth will come down harder on youngsters in these poor communities in the future. Cameron'll probably give them greater powers; which they'll use to repress more kids in the future.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

cybertect said:


> There's a chemist with exactly such a sign on the corner of Church Street as it turns left into Reeves Corner.
> 
> The diamond shaped signs are speed limits for Croydon Tramlink, in km/h
> 
> ...



Gawd, hope it's not real on the one hand but hoping I've not been gullible on the other


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

uh oh, Sky reporting heavy armoured vehicles being deployed in Ealing 

I'm going to bed and hope to awake to good news


----------



## Urbanblues (Aug 9, 2011)

belboid said:


> I was talking explicitly to some fool making glib statements about 'lefty academics' and _specifically_ about you tube video's. ie, specifically the unsubstantiated crap which is often shown later to be deeply misleading at best. clearly there _is_ good reason for many locals to be afraid of and worried about what is happening, i've not said otherwise at any point. but i do dismiss the notion that it is not at all 'political'



I agree. There is a political dimension to what's going on. Austerity measures closing down youth facilities; Old Bill racist attitudes; young black people feeling totally disenfranchised from society.

Yet, the fact it has a political dimension doesn't stop some of the actions carried out as being reckless. Belboid, we carry out our political actions; however, we try to ensure we're not endangering others. I just wish the people, many of whom do have deep felt grievances against the authorities, would consider others, who aren't the enemy, when they carry out their form of political action.


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> and how much money would it cost to replace them (paid for by us)?



taxpayers, lol.

Much the same as any other building, ultimately. My point was - the government are cunts, so if anyone's buildings should be torched, it's theirs.

Torch the fucking council offices, job centres etc (if you really must) rather than carpet shops and bookies.

THFC can fuck off, they were gonna demolish it anyway, weren't they?


----------



## twentythreedom (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> Oh yes. I'm sure pensioners and the unemployed would be delighted if their payments were delayed because some fuckwit has torched the building handling their benefits.



I should've added "......rather than carpet shops and bookies"

If you're gonna torch a building, you might aswell torch one that's representative of the cunts that run this country.

I'm not condoning arson. But if someone insists on doing it, they should try to be intelligent arsonists. Make it count, innit.


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

Google Map of verified riot locations.

Link from Ceasefire


----------



## marty21 (Aug 9, 2011)

Amazing the spread of the riots - North/South/East/West - in my area, I heard a lot of police activity - but even though I'm only a mile or so from the Hackney epicentre - nothing happened here, apart from a lot of people milling about waiting for something to happen, and the shops all closing (except for the pub and a hairdresser!)


----------



## DRINK? (Aug 9, 2011)

Class how these pricks smash up and rob their own shitty areas. Stupid is not the word... Good tv though


----------



## Flanflinger (Aug 9, 2011)

DRINK? said:


> Class how these pricks smash up and rob their own shitty areas. Stupid is not the word... Good tv though


 
And before long they'll be moaning about the lack of investment in those areas.................LOL.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

DRINK? said:


> Class


 The only part of your post worth quoting...Class has a lot to do with it, well done.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 9, 2011)

I suspect what we will see is a lot of locally owned business that have been torched selling out to property developers.


----------



## past caring (Aug 9, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I suspect what we will see is a lot of locally owned business that have been torched selling out to property developers.



Indeed. Hackney, Tottenham, Peckham, Clapham are all fairly central - not the banliues, not the future Thamesmeads by a long way. This will be part of a long term process of gentrification.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> The only part of your post worth quoting...Class has a lot to do with it, well done.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> taxpayers, lol.
> 
> Much the same as any other building, ultimately. My point was - the government are cunts, so if anyone's buildings should be torched, it's theirs.
> 
> Torch the fucking council offices, job centres etc (if you really must) rather than carpet shops and bookies.


The riots aren't politically directed.  There's no _strategy_.


----------



## Mr Moose (Aug 9, 2011)

Last night felt a bit like the progression scenes in a disaster movie. Where the news has broken that an asteroid is coming and we cut to scenes of rioting and plunging stock markets.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Mr Moose said:


> Last night felt a bit like the progression scenes in a disaster movie. Where the news has broken that an asteroid is coming and we cut to scenes of rioting and plunging stock markets.


Well, quite.  And I've yet to hear any commentator make any connection between the two.  It's like random inexplicable disasters just happen to be happening at the same time.


----------



## Boris Sprinkler (Aug 9, 2011)

Confirmed reports it kicked off in Ruislip last night too. http://twitpic.com/6340p9


----------



## DRINK? (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> The only part of your post worth quoting...Class has a lot to do with it, well done.



With the underclasses being particularly stupid.... Was waterstones looted?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

DRINK? said:


> With the underclasses being particularly stupid.... Was waterstones looted?


I was wondering whether to try to enter some sort of dialogue, or just ignore you.  I've opted instead for telling you to fuck off.  Call me opportunist.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 9, 2011)

Didn't get a chance to walk around my end of Lavender Hill to see what shops etc were hit  - I think Drumshack may have been hit after all???

Dan U - how's it look your end this morning?


----------



## gunneradt (Aug 9, 2011)

and a lot of small businesses will be left uninsured I suspect too by this


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

I am sure it has been posted already but the C word is getting mentioned...


*0835:* *Diane Abbott Hackney MP *

on BBC Breakfast repeats her call for a curfew:



> "We have to regain control of the streets and we have to have a decisive strategy for doing that. One thing I think we should consider is some sort of curfew. Very hard to enforce in a 24-hour city but what's happening is kids are sitting at home, seeing other kids looting trainer shops, looting phone shops, and thinking 'I'll have some of that'. What we can't have is increasing numbers of young people coming out to loot night after night."


----------



## TitanSound (Aug 9, 2011)

Being told by a couple of people at work that Islington Police station on Tolpuddle Street was firebombed last night but cannot find anything online?


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

Urbanblues said:


> Christ, this is awful. How the hell can people justify these levels of endangerment?



To put the lid on it being a fake or somewhere abroad...

Other pics from the same photographer last night

http://photo.wenn.com/index.php?action=quicksearch&ppid=150284&version=int

Same spot seen this morning

http://www.flickr.com/photos/turbohorsebox/6024573963/


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

FFS:


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 9, 2011)

editor - have you heard from your mate about Drumshack?  didn't get a chance to pop round the corner to have a look myself this morning.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 9, 2011)

"Prime Minister David Cameron to make a statement at Downing Street at 10:30"


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

My mate's Drumshack store in Clapham was OK, but loads of nearby small businesses have been trashed:


> *well i'm at the shop. we are lucky. just one smashed window but they've destroyed the dj stop and antony labans hairdresser and they've even done the vets. monsters. why the vets for godsakes? i've been down to the junction and its smashed to pieces  its cordonned off.*


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> "Prime Minister David Cameron to make a statement at Downing Street at 10:30"



Can't wait to check out his sun tan!


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> My mate's Drumshack store in Clapham was OK, but loads of nearby small businesses have been trashed:



Good to hear for your mate.  Anthony Labans has been there as long as I've lived round my way.....and they turned over the vets???  There's another vets right near me on Wandsworth Road - will check that out on the way home tonight.


----------



## WWWeed (Aug 9, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Shit. I was thinking they meant the other side of St John's Road.
> 
> Not Dub Vendor to top everything else this evening.


Looking at the Live TV pictures I have just seen Dub Vendor looks like it has survived with minimal damage (cant see any smoke or fire damage) 

I hope the stock is ok too!


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 9, 2011)

WWWeed said:


> Looking at the Live TV pictures I have just seen Dub Vendor looks like it has survived with minimal damage (cant see any smoke or fire damage)
> 
> I hope the stock is ok too!



That's good to hear, at least.  That fire could have easily "crossed over" to the D Vendor building.


----------



## Fruitloop (Aug 9, 2011)

I have a pretty good idea why you would turn over a vets tbh


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

Fruitloop said:


> I have a pretty good idea why you would turn over a vets tbh



Likewise


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Well, quite. And I've yet to hear any commentator make any connection between the two. It's like random inexplicable disasters just happen to be happening at the same time.



Let me have a bash ...

For 30 years we've had neo-liberal policies, aimed at increasing the rate of profit to investors at the expense of everyone else: primarily via suppression of collective bargaining, deregulation, globalisation and privatization.

Among the impacts of these policies has been:

1) A dramatic increase in the number of young people with virtually no stake in society (jobs everywhere except the finance and service industries being exported to places with worse pay and conditions, social spending and education cuts putting all but McJobs out of reach and 300 applicants even for those) For various reasons the media has demonised these young people as 'chavs', 'gangstas' and the police have pushed them around with impunity, even within their home neighbourhoods and whenever they happen to kill someone, the police have pre-emptively smeared them via their corruption-partners in the media, thus provoking extreme anger and resentment and in this case, providing the flash-point for a whole bunch of massive fucking riots.

2) Meanwhile, the increased profits accruing to investors at the expense of society (see point 1) began to overwhelm the ability of the markets to find good investment opportunities. Even measures like privatisation of public services and other forms of primitive accumulation could not supply sufficient good investment opportunities, and beyond what they could spend on yachts, cocaine and country houses, the investor class was struggling to find places to invest, so they started investing in a variety of 'creative' financial instruments which included numerous terrible investments and outright Ponzi schemes, resulting in a mass of ficticious capital (paper claims on wealth beyond actual productive stuff) that subsequently turned into toilet paper.

3) Due to the impact of neo-liberal policies, while the investor class got rich and the upper middle class did OK, everybody else got progressively worse off and thus had less to spend, depressing the economy. This problem was dealt with temporarily by means of credit, secured by a property boom. This killed two birds with one stone, for a while, putting money back in circulation and simultaneously creating new investment opportunities (see 2)

4) When the house of cards described in 2) and 3) above started to fall down in 2008, the governments working for the investor class quickly moved to secure the financial industry as far as possible, prioritising that over everything else. Since then they've been preparing to do so again, by increasingly aggressively redistributing wealth away from ordinary people and towards the investor class and their immediate supporters at the expense of everybody else. In particular, they've set us on a trajectory where the underclass described in 1) above is only going to get larger, more alienated, more desperate and (given recent events) more experienced at rioting and looting ...


----------



## nino_savatte (Aug 9, 2011)

A truly stupid article from Tim Stanley in the Torygraph



> Boris Johnson has finally returned home, 72 hours too late. His decision to go on doing whatever it is he does on holiday (I’m imagining a drunken game of Buckaroo) while London burns has risked making him look aloof and disinterested. But all is not lost: there’s still time to turn this around. In 1968, Maryland governor Spiro Agnew converted a similar disaster into a vote winner and catapulted himself to the Vice Presidency. Conservatives everywhere should take note.
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/t...nson-a-way-through-this-crisis/#disqus_thread



Agnew was forced to resign because of tax evasion. Wtf is wrong with these Tories?


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 9, 2011)

looting is 30 years old, is it?


----------



## gabi (Aug 9, 2011)

one of the targets of these heroes...







Aaron Biber, 89, assesses the damage to his hairdressing salon after riots on Tottenham High Road on August 7, 2011.

more here

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2011/08/london_riots.html


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

Fruitloop said:


> I have a pretty good idea why you would turn over a vets tbh


Seeing as they did over a hairdressers in the same trashing orgy I wouldn't be too quick to attribute any kind of intelligence to their actions.


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 9, 2011)

Fruitloop said:


> I have a pretty good idea why you would turn over a vets tbh



Oh yeah, I can see that too, thinking about it now....


----------



## London_Calling (Aug 9, 2011)

Did the hairdressers have a flat screen, or a till?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2011)

Fruitloop said:


> I have a pretty good idea why you would turn over a vets tbh


yeh pony smack


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 9, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> Did the hairdressers have a flat screen, or a till?


most barbers have flat screens, they're called 'mirrors'. and there's usually a till somewhere in the establishment.


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 9, 2011)

L'Oréal and Ketamin the choice of a new generation.


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 9, 2011)

Because you're worth it.


----------



## Flanflinger (Aug 9, 2011)

gabi said:


> one of the targets of these heroes...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Shame the fuckers who did that were ever born. They'll never be any use to society. I hope that those convicted and are found to be on any form of benefit have those beneits stopped.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> Because you're _worth_ it.



When you have nothing to lose, you have no fear...When you believe your life is worth nothing, you unconciously hate yourself and destroy yourself and others.


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 9, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> Shame the fuckers who did that were ever born. They'll never be any use to society. I hope that those convicted and are found to be on any form of benefit have those beneits stopped.



So, they have to go out mugging to cover food, etc.

Well thought out that, do you read the Daily Mail?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Let me have a bash ...


Yes, that's a good stab at it.  Sadly, that kind of analysis will never get aired properly in the mainstream media, other than perhaps to misrepresent it.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 9, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> Shame the fuckers who did that were ever born. They'll never be any use to society. I hope that those convicted and are found to be on any form of benefit have those beneits stopped.



That should prevent them from re-offending. Good call.


----------



## camouflage (Aug 9, 2011)

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps/ms?ms...056305&spn=0.39294,0.630341&z=10&source=embed


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

More talk of Parliament being recalled 



> Parliament is to be recalled on Thursday for MPs to discuss the situation in Britain’s inner cities. The news was first tweeted by George Pascoe-Watson, former political editor of the Sun. I’ve just had confirmation from another source. I’m told the government will make the announcement later today.


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> When you have nothing to lose, you have no fear...When you believe your life is worth nothing, you unconciously hate yourself and destroy yourself and others.


Don't you think you might be projecting just a tad here? You've no idea what was in the minds of the people trashing shops, or their psychological state.


----------



## TitanSound (Aug 9, 2011)

Cameron on BBC news now.


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 9, 2011)

Number of police in London tonight will be 16,000 up from 6,000 last night. (PM statement)


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Let me have a bash ...
> 
> For 30 years we've had neo-liberal policies, aimed at increasing the rate of profit to investors at the expense of everyone else: primarily via suppression of collective bargaining, deregulation, globalisation and privatization.
> 
> ...



Whilst I agree with the socio-economic-media analysis, there is also the fact that some people have no sense of what is right and wrong, are pleased with their identity as criminals, fond of violence, fond of "getting stuff for free", fond of feeling big, of talking shit, of taking the streets over from the police, of war mentality.  We live in an ok country; it is ok, though with many issues, like most countries.  There are positive things like the NHS, like benefits, like a largely unintrusive police force, like various ways of getting your voice heard.  These people do not know what oppression and poverty is; neither do I, not really.  They just like smashing stuff and getting stuff for free and are emboldened by the sheer weight of numbers and the feeling that they are part of history now.  There is always a background, to everything, but how you react to that background is still down to you.  These people are personally responsible for their own outrageous behaviour.  They are not passive victims.  They are perpetrating violence and theft and deeply destructive criminal damage, to such centres of power as Oxfam and the local hairdressers.  They are frightening people, ruining things, and having lots of ego-boosting fun doing it.  They are having fun, clearly.  Which is not to say that there are not socio-economic-media issues that need looking at, that are the backdrop, that are part of the reason this is happening.  You have to have the kind of mind that says that it is ok to steal, attack, and burn in order for you to steal, attack, and burn.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

TitanSound said:


> Cameron on BBC news now.



He is bleating on a bit and echoing what others have said already. Asking for more police after cutting police and cancelling police leave


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> When you have nothing to lose, you have no fear...When you believe your life is worth nothing, you unconciously hate yourself and destroy yourself and others.



But with a stupid grin on your face and great hair?


----------



## WWWeed (Aug 9, 2011)

wow 6000 police on streets of London last night, and another 10,000 are being drafted in tonight!

edit:claphamboy beat me too it!


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> *Don't you think you might be projecting just a tad here?* You've no idea what was in the minds of the people trashing shops, or their psychological state.



No I don't. I don't need to _know_ what's in their minds, I can see clearly enough. It's not just a psychological state it's also a deep emotional one.

You don't have to agree.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> But with a stupid grin on your face and great hair?



Eh?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Starflesh said:


> Whilst I agree with the socio-economic-media analysis, there is also the fact that some people have no sense of what is right and wrong, are pleased with their identity as criminals, fond of violence, fond of "getting stuff for free"[...]


Indeed.  There are so many threads that I'm having difficulty remembering what's been said on which, but Past Caring went into this on (I think) the "is there a reason" thread.

It shouldn't be imagined that anyone saying what Bernie said thinks that anyone who sets fire to a shop without thought of who might be living above it (for example) is being anything other than an antisocial (and I don't use the word lightly) cunt.  The individual acts _are_ "opportunist", "recreational" and the responsibility of those who commit them.  However, they are not "just" those things.  That's, I think, the point.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> Don't you think you might be projecting just a tad here? You've no idea what was in the minds of the people trashing shops, or their psychological state.



Projection is a psychological term whereby you assign your own prejudices and negative emotions onto other people, while denying them yourself. I very much doubt that rutita "believes her life is worth nothing, she unconciously hatse herself and destroys herself and others"


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Projection is a psychological term whereby you assign your own prejudices and negative emotions onto other people, while denying them yourself. I very much doubt that rutita "believes her life is worth nothing, she unconciously hatse herself and destroys herself and others"



Quite, thank you. I don't  (although can identify my own levels/versions of this dynamic/response) that's one of the reasons why I was not out looting, burning and mashing up my local area last night.


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Eh?



L'Oréal and Ketamin.

As much as I agree that there are valid reasons for youth to be unhappy... there are valid reasons for almost everyone to be unhappy.

It's not about mindset... it's about circumstance.

It's about the sudden fast method of mass communication, and excuses to use them. It's about the summer holidays and the desire to have what other people have.

It's about being young and rebellious. It's about raw power.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> L'Oréal and Ketamin.
> 
> As much as I agree that there are valid reasons for youth to be unhappy... there are valid reasons for almost everyone to be unhappy.
> 
> ...



It's about many things, I don't disagree with you.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Kizmet said:


> L'Oréal and Ketamin.
> 
> As much as I agree that there are valid reasons for youth to be unhappy... there are valid reasons for almost everyone to be unhappy.
> 
> ...


You see, I agree with this.  That's right.


----------



## Flanflinger (Aug 9, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> So, they have to go out mugging to cover food, etc.
> 
> Well thought out that, do you read the Daily Mail?



Go and voice your opinions to those who have lost their homes. Muggers do what they do because they know no other way.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 9, 2011)

Starflesh said:


> Whilst I agree with the socio-economic-media analysis, there is also the fact that some people have no sense of what is right and wrong, are pleased with their identity as criminals, fond of violence, fond of "getting stuff for free", fond of feeling big, of talking shit, of taking the streets over from the police, of war mentality. We live in an ok country; it is ok, though with many issues, like most countries. There are positive things like the NHS, like benefits, like a largely unintrusive police force, like various ways of getting your voice heard. These people do not know what oppression and poverty is; neither do I, not really. They just like smashing stuff and getting stuff for free and are emboldened by the sheer weight of numbers and the feeling that they are part of history now. There is always a background, to everything, but how you react to that background is still down to you. These people are personally responsible for their own outrageous behaviour. They are not passive victims. They are perpetrating violence and theft and deeply destructive criminal damage, to such centres of power as Oxfam and the local hairdressers. They are frightening people, ruining things, and having lots of ego-boosting fun doing it. They are having fun, clearly. Which is not to say that there are not socio-economic-media issues that need looking at, that are the backdrop, that are part of the reason this is happening. You have to have the kind of mind that says that it is ok to steal, attack, and burn in order for you to steal, attack, and burn.



Sure, but given that our socio-economic system has created a violently alienated underclass big enough to set our cities on fire when it kicks off, the question arises:

'What the fuck are we going to do about it?'

One might suggest: 'try to integrate it back into society' but that's pretty obviously not on the agenda, the ruling class priorities (savagely looting the public sector to pay for another round of propping up the banks) won't even allow the attempt, even if it were possible.


----------



## Flanflinger (Aug 9, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Number of police in London tonight will be 16,000 up from 6,000 last night. (PM statement)



Plenty of overtime then.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Sure, but given that our socio-economic system has created such an underclass the question arises:
> 
> 'What the fuck are we going to do about it?'
> 
> One might suggest: 'try to integrate it back into society' but that's pretty obviously not on the agenda, the ruling class priorities (savagely looting the public sector to pay for another round of propping up the banks) won't even allow the attempt, even if it were possible.


Exactly.


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Number of police in London tonight will be 16,000 up from 6,000 last night. (PM statement)



Hmm. That could leave the rest of the country wide open.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Indeed. There are so many threads that I'm having difficulty remembering what's been said on which, but Past Caring went into this on (I think) the "is there a reason" thread.
> 
> It shouldn't be imagined that anyone saying what Bernie said thinks that anyone who sets fire to a shop without thought of who might be living above it (for example) is being anything other than an antisocial (and I don't use the word lightly) cunt. The individual acts _are_ "opportunist", "recreational" and the responsibility of those who commit them. However, they are not "just" those things. That's, I think, the point.



Yep. I'm refusing to play the "You must join us in our punitive wank fantasies and shut up about causes or you're supporting people who set fire to old ladies" game, but clearly I think people who burn shops without a thought of who might be asleep above them are anti-social cunts.

I also think that the people who created this underclass so that they and their mates could get very slightly richer are anti-social cunts and on a rather larger scale ...


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Yep. I'm refusing to play the "You must join us in our punitive wank fantasies and shut up about causes or you're supporting people who set fire to old ladies" game, but clearly I think people who burn shops without a thought of who might be asleep above them are anti-social cunts.


Exactly.  I have everything sympathy for the first part of that, too.  But sometimes even sensible people seem to miss the obvious.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Absolutely crazy amounts of police sirens around here at the mo....


----------



## Hellsbells (Aug 9, 2011)

Didn't really want to start a new thread as there's already so many on this, but just wondered if anyone knew what Walthamstow's like at the moment. There's not much on the news about it (so hoping it's not too bad), but I heard there was quite a bit of looting last night (or the night before), and a woman at my gym last night said all the shops were closing & boarding up early and gangs were starting to form. Does anyone know when this happened (day/night) and how bad the damage is. I live nearby but have avoided the area and am a bit concerned because my dad is coming to London on Friday to house sit for me while I'm on holiday.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

A friend who lives above a shop in the market was kept up most of the night with looting and smashing things up last night.


----------



## WWWeed (Aug 9, 2011)

The met have released a batch of suspects photos from the riots: http://www.met.police.uk/pressbureau/Bur09/page07.htm

Its the usual strange mix of muppets who have made no effort to conceal their identity, and people who cant be identified (beacuse they HAVE concealed their identites).

Good luck catching these lot:


----------



## WWWeed (Aug 9, 2011)

also someone has set this blog up:

http://catchalooter.tumblr.com/


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

WWWeed said:


> The met have released a batch of suspects photos from the riots: http://www.met.police.uk/pressbureau/Bur09/page07.htm
> 
> Its the usual strange mix of muppets who have made no effort to conceal their identity, and people who cant be identified (beacuse they HAVE concealed their identites).
> 
> Good luck catching these lot:


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

I'm sure there's plenty of people who are pissed off with the situation who would quite happily grass them up.

Despite not being able to see their faces, some ofthem have pretty distinctive clothing


----------



## story (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> Don't you think you might be projecting just a tad here? You've no idea what was in the minds of the people trashing shops, or their psychological state.


 
It wasn't conscious though. These things never are. We all of us act out our unconscious stuff, every day.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

Listening to some of the people who phoned into BBC London radio this morning was grating. Especially people who were blaming Liberty for the problems. One woman shouting down the phone that '_parents being able to hit their kids_' would have stopped this ever happening.


----------



## belboid (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I'm sure there's plenty of people who are pissed off with the situation who would quite happily grass them up.
> 
> Despite not being able to see their faces, some ofthem have pretty distinctive clothing


most of them have new clothes now.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

belboid said:


> most of them have new clothes now.


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Sure, but given that our socio-economic system has created a violently alienated underclass big enough to set our cities on fire when it kicks off, the question arises:
> 
> 'What the fuck are we going to do about it?'
> 
> One might suggest: 'try to integrate it back into society' but that's pretty obviously not on the agenda, the ruling class priorities (savagely looting the public sector to pay for another round of propping up the banks) won't even allow the attempt, even if it were possible.



I am not certain how to reintegrate an underclass back into society.  Sounds tricky.
Somehow you will have to make them like the police more, trust them more.
Getting them jobs would be good.  That will take some time methinks.
Maybe legalising marijuana would help, allow them to open cafes where they could go and smoke it.
I imagine most of the people on the streets looting enjoy marijuana.  They look the type.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

> *1245:* *BBC Monitoring *
> 
> Russian TV channel Rossiya 24 says parts of London resembled a "battlefield". Citing Twitter, the Rossiya 24 correspondent claims animals had been released from London Zoo and lions and tigers could now be heard roaring on the streets. This is wearily contradicted by the Zoo's press officer. "It's been very quiet," she tells us.


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

I really think it would help if there were nice places with comfy sofas and pool and table tennis etc where the youngsters could go and be allowed to smoke a bit of dope.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Badgers said:


>


 


Heard about that last night

Another rumour that went round was that the London Eye was on fire


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Starflesh said:


> I really think it would help if there were nice places with comfy sofas and pool and table tennis etc where the youngsters could go and be allowed to smoke a bit of dope.


Like church?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Another rumour that went round was that the London Eye was on fire



Probably just put 28 Days Later on or something!!


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Probably just put 28 Days Later on or something!!


 


Hope the looters don't hear the rumour, it might give them ideas


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

Wandsworth, SW18 _seems to_ have been unaffected so far but Evans Cycles have just closed up and pulled shutters down.


----------



## TitanSound (Aug 9, 2011)

A few riot vans just tore round Highbury corner in a hurry to get somewhere.


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

> _ the Rossiya 24 correspondent claims animals had been released from London Zoo and lions and tigers could now be heard roaring on the streets. _




_Jesus wept._


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Like church?


Yeah, like church but with bongs instead of incense, beanbags instead of pews, decks instead of altars. I dunno. I am grasping at straws. I just want these children to be able to smoke drugs in the warmth so they can stop wandering around the streets.

Some sort of psychological, economic, social rehashing of everything done in a short space of time, without telling those we are trying to help that they are the underclass, cos that would make them mad.


----------



## Balbi (Aug 9, 2011)

Baton rounds will be used if the police 'need to'.

Thats a big yes then.


----------



## Utopia (Aug 9, 2011)

Heard rumblings that somethings happening in Waterloo, apparently the shops in Lower Marsh are closing up?!?!?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Baton rounds will be used if the police 'need to'.
> 
> Thats a big yes then.


Where's that from?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Heard rumblings that somethings happening in Waterloo, apparently the shops in Lower Marsh are closing up?!?!?



From people in Waterloo or Twitter rumours?


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Where's that from?



BBC News now.

Reporting that they had them available last night, but remained restrained, I guess the government have said there must be a major clampdown tonight.


----------



## spirals (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Where's that from?


Was just on bbc 24


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

Balbi said:


> Baton rounds will be used if the police 'need to'.
> 
> Thats a big yes then.



Good.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> BBC News now.


Cheers.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Someone on Twatter says she's just been ordered to go home by her boss as rioting in Waterloo, and someone else saying nothing happening contrary to other tweets


----------



## magneze (Aug 9, 2011)

WWWeed said:


> wow 6000 police on streets of London last night, and another 10,000 are being drafted in tonight!
> 
> edit:claphamboy beat me too it!


So, where have the 10,000 police come from? Are those the areas that will get hit next?


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> Good.



I am not sure about 'good', but I do accept there maybe no choice if things do seriously kick-off again, there's no way the police can be seen to totally lose control again.


----------



## magneze (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Someone on Twatter says she's just been ordered to go home by her boss as rioting in Waterloo.


Twitter has been shown up over the last few days. It's a total waste of a browser tab IMO.


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 9, 2011)

magneze said:


> So, where have the 10,000 police come from? Are those the areas that will get hit next?



All leave cancelled, specials called in to free up more full-timers for front line duties plus extras from other forces - mainly county rather than city forces.

10,000 is about 1/3rd of the total Met force.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

magneze said:


> Twitter has been shown up over the last few days. It's a total waste of a browser tab IMO.



I know.  I'm relying on West Londoner, but they're not reporting at the moment.


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 9, 2011)

They filled all London police cells last night, now emptying them & shipping people out to home counties police stations, freeing-up space for tonight - more efforts to be put into arrests.


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> I am not sure about 'good', but I do accept there maybe no choice if things do seriously kick-off again, there's no way the police can be seen to totally lose control again.



"Good" because the only thing that will stop even more working class families from losing their homes and belongings unfortunately is force.

Anyone who frowns upon the use of non-lethal force in the form of baton rounds, rubber bullets, in the face of the disgusting feral behaviour from these cunts, is seriously deluded.

YouTube videos of looters getting hit square in the face by some beanbag rounds will cheer me up no end.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> "Good" because the only thing that will stop even more working class families from losing their homes and belongings unfortunately is force.


In every case?


----------



## TopCat (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> "Good" because the only thing that will stop even more working class families from losing their homes and belongings unfortunately is force.
> 
> Anyone who frowns upon the use of non-lethal force in the form of baton rounds, rubber bullets, in the face of the disgusting feral behaviour from these cunts, is seriously deluded.
> 
> YouTube videos of looters getting hit square in the face by some beanbag rounds will cheer me up no end.



Why don't you set up a network of vigilantes? You could patrol Sutton and save the world.


----------



## Utopia (Aug 9, 2011)

Badgers said:


> From people in Waterloo or Twitter rumours?



A friend lives that way and was in Lower marsh as they were closing up shops, could be just precautionary of course, i'd imagine most shops will be shutting up early today!


----------



## magneze (Aug 9, 2011)

Seems that there may be trouble in Camberwell.


> *1.15pm:* James Walsh writes that in *Camberwell*, south London, staff at local organisations and businesses have sent people home and a fire has been spotted near a McDonald's restaurant. There is some looting, and some people are hiding out in a local hairdresser's.




http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/aug/09/london-riots-violence-looting-live


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> "Good" because the only thing that will stop even more working class families from losing their homes and belongings unfortunately is force.


Any thoughts on my question, pk?  About force being the only way to stop even more working class families from losing their homes and belongings?  (And livelihoods etc).


----------



## Belushi (Aug 9, 2011)

My Mother talls me that all the shops in Mottingham (SE London) have just shut as there's a rumour circulating that the kids are going to kick off.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Have just rung my friend who's a Brixton resident but is with his sister in Old Kent Road, but almost on Walworth Road. Said loads and loads of police zooming past and the vet's in Camberwell has just rung to cancel his appointment. Also said his sister is on her way back from work by Tower Bridge where things seem to be shutting up.

I think it's maybe panic shutting up due to rumours of it kicking off though


----------



## g force (Aug 9, 2011)

There's fuck all shutting up by Tower Bridge. Scaremongering bullshit as per usual in these types of events


----------



## TitanSound (Aug 9, 2011)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/pixel-eight/6024429000/

What a nice tray.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

g force said:


> There's fuck all shutting up by Tower Bridge. Scaremongering bullshit as per usual in these types of events



Sorry, that might be my mistake.  I think she works in Tower Bridge and probably on the way home she has seen places shutting up shop (ie. Walworth or Camberwell)


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

Not sure how much of this is speculation but Wandsworth has pretty much closed up. The shopping centre, banks, electrical shops, chemists and other potential targets are all closed now. Just recently according to what people are saying in town. Spoke to a police chap who said they are expecting trouble around 3pm in Wandsworth, Putney and possibly Wimbledon too.

Quite a lot of police out and a fair few more (hoodies on but not up yet) yoot than usual are about.


----------



## Spark (Aug 9, 2011)

Rumours circulating in Wimbledon now. We've been sent home and some shops are shutting.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

Spark said:


> Rumours circulating in Wimbledon now. We've been sent home and some shops are shutting.



Seems all the business are communicating and telling people to close or exercise caution round these manors


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Why don't you set up a network of vigilantes? You could patrol Sutton and save the world.



Why would I want to save Slutton? Burn it to the ground, it would be an improvement!


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> In every case?



In the case of 17 year olds punching/mugging anyone nearby with a cameraphone, yep. A few beanbag rounds in the face and his night of looting is over.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 9, 2011)

Rumors that kids are gathering at Grove Park and the Police are there in numbers to stop them getting to Bromley


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

From Twitter so unsure if any truth:



> *Lehi1948* Lehi1948
> 
> #londonriots small arms fire heard in *wandsworth*. Reports of gunfire. Will keep posted


----------



## past caring (Aug 9, 2011)

Maybe in the circumstances worth establishing the likely truth before posting, then?


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

past caring said:


> Maybe in the circumstances worth establishing the likely truth before posting, then?



Did you see my comment?


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 9, 2011)

Knock on effects....

Barking, Dalston, Hatfield, Hackney, Poplar and Plaistow Job Centres all closed afterpolice & other advice. Scores of Post offices closing down across London.

One thing that will be intersting in the aftermath is the governments approach to police, fire brigade, NHS and other public sector pensions. Expecially as regards how they deal with police pensions etc after May praised them in public for their bravery. Will the same be said for other public sector workers caught up in this?


----------



## ferrelhadley (Aug 9, 2011)

past caring said:


> Maybe in the circumstances worth establishing the likely truth before posting, then?



We are adults who can handle information of variable provenance and form our opinions on risks around it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> In the case of 17 year olds punching/mugging anyone nearby with a cameraphone, yep. A few beanbag rounds in the face and his night of looting is over.


And in the case of the working class people losing their homes, livelihoods etc because of the actions of bankers and politicians?  Or does it not cut both ways?


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 9, 2011)

Boris at Clapham Junction (c/o the Graun live blog):



> 2.43pm: Boris Johnson is speaking in Clapham Junction. His message to the rioters is: "They will face punishments they will bitterly regret."
> The mayor of London is facing a lot of heckling. People are asking where the police were yesterday.





> 2.44pm: Boris Johnson says he does not want to hear social and economic justifications for the rioting.


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> And in the case of the working class people losing their homes, livelihoods etc because of the actions of bankers and politicians? Or does it not cut both ways?



I would speculate that not one of these looters have lost homes or livelihoods as a result of the actions of bankers and politicians, they're living in council houses and living off welfare. They aren't working class. Working class implies they are capable of an honest day's work. These little fuckers don't know what hard work is, which is why they're happy to fuck up small businesses.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 9, 2011)

I am not that central in Wandsworth but seems lots of businesses shutting up and sending employees home. Probably just being cautious, everyone seems pretty calm enough.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 9, 2011)

> 2.44pm: Boris Johnson says he does not want to hear social and economic *justifications* for the rioting.


 (my emphasis)

How many of those would be on offer I wonder? I've not heard many at all ...

Social and economic *explanations* on the other hand, I can see why he wouldn't want to hear those.


----------



## spartacus mills (Aug 9, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Boris at Clapham Junction (c/o the Graun live blog):



Just watched this on tv, he only wanted to talk to volunteers, faced alot of heckling from a hostile locals and soon did a runner... Was later filmed chatting to a friendlier local and told him "we need to reclaim the streets!!"


----------



## spartacus mills (Aug 9, 2011)

3.23pm: Nick Clegg has been heckled and told to "go home" during a visit to Birmingham. Boris Johnson is still being aggressively heckled in Clapham Junction.


----------



## iROBOT (Aug 9, 2011)

The worrying thing is that all crime is due to "social and economic" reasons (surley? people are not born thugs and criminals) If the politicians cant see this and implement people centered policies instead of Capital centered policies then we better get used to this type of behavior for years to come.


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> Why would I want to save Slutton? Burn it to the ground, it would be an improvement!



Oh, thanks


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 9, 2011)

"They will face punishments they will bitterly regret."
I'm not sure that makes any sense Boris.

Still, why change the habit of a lifetime?


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Oh, thanks



(was not entirely serious there... as much as I hate Sutton and the chav culture that lives there, it's handy for quick shopping trips)


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 9, 2011)

Anyone seen this? At least some solidarity has been born of all this. Everyone needs to march on parliament with their brooms raised aloft.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 9, 2011)

Starflesh said:


> I am not certain how to reintegrate an underclass back into society. Sounds tricky.
> Somehow you will have to make them like the police more, trust them more.
> Getting them jobs would be good. That will take some time methinks.


How about giving them jobs, educational opportunities, better homes, recreational facilities, restoring EMA, sorting out the Met....just a thought, like


----------



## Dan U (Aug 9, 2011)

Boris was quite well received by the volunteers when he finally found them, except for when he tried the 'no social reasons' for this and, to their credit, a fair number booed him


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 9, 2011)

Starflesh said:


> like a largely unintrusive police force, like various ways of getting your voice heard. These people do not know what oppression and poverty is; neither do I, not really


if you think there is no poverty, oppression or 'police intrusion' in tottenham or Brixton, then you're living ina different planet to the rest of us.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 9, 2011)

Victoria station is closed. Which is odd.


----------



## Private Storm (Aug 9, 2011)

ALL the shops and businesses battening down the hatches on Clapham High Street. Couldn't get hummus for love nor money


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Victoria station is closed. Which is odd.


Are you sure?

I only saw this on the hugely unreliable source that is Twitter:


> "email just through about likely protest outside Scotland Yard. Victoria Street and possibly Victoria Station to close later, if needed."


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Aug 9, 2011)

Anyone know what the situation is at Sutton? Friend has a reherasal organised there tonight (Gander Green Lane way), one person has cancelled and others are asking if they should come or not.


----------



## Greebo (Aug 9, 2011)

Has anyone been able to get a copy of today's SLP?  Couldn't get one in Streatham, Brixton or along Tulse Hill.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 9, 2011)

editor said:


> Are you sure?



Yeah. It's to stop people coming for the Scotland Yard protest. I work just next door - sent my team home.


----------



## Dan U (Aug 9, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Anyone know what the situation is at Sutton? Friend has a reherasal organised there tonight (Gander Green Lane way), one person has cancelled and others are asking if they should come or not.



if you are on twitter, the council have a feed as there was a shed load of people spreading rumours last night of fires etc that didn't happen. shops shutting though i think, like Croydon etc


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Aug 9, 2011)

Starflesh said:


> I am not certain how to reintegrate an underclass back into society.  Sounds tricky.
> Somehow you will have to make them like the police more, trust them more.


Well let's start by affording them some dignity shall we and stop referring to them as The Underclass. The big, bad, dirty, scary underclass. Rather, let's think of them as fellow citizens, fellow human beings and tackle the difficulties they face; housing, education, poverty, healthcare, disenfranchisement with the institutions of society which have housed discrimination and reinforced negative stereotyping for decades. 
Let's broaden the horizons of the most disadvantaged shall we? Lets have a properly ringfenced budget for childrens services instead of scrapping surestart, let's make a budget and a network for national youth services (I don't believe we've ever tried that...) maybe get people doing community work around the country on an exchange type of arrangement.
Let's give real support to parents and to grandparents, show care and respect for these people and we may reap some reward. Until we do that we will reap we sow.



> Maybe legalising marijuana would help, allow them to open cafes where they could go and smoke it.
> I imagine most of the people on the streets looting enjoy marijuana.  They look the type.


There's an argument for legalising marijuana but lazy profiling and keeping the riff-raff of the street is not it.


----------



## QueenOfGoths (Aug 9, 2011)

Dan U said:


> if you are on twitter, the council have a feed as there was a shed load of people spreading rumours last night of fires etc that didn't happen. shops shutting though i think, like Croydon etc


Cheers . The council feed will be useful, saw the "Asda in flames!" etc.. tweets last night and didn't want to get caught up in rumour again!


----------



## Dan U (Aug 9, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Cheers . The council feed will be useful, saw the "Asda in flames!" etc.. tweets last night and didn't want to get caught up in rumour again!



someone on another forum posted that as gospel, that he'd seen it.

he looked a bit of a wally this morning.


----------



## The Octagon (Aug 9, 2011)

Ok, officially surreal now, they've boarded up a BP garage in Egham, Surrey (near me) and there is a 'large police presence'. Extremely precautionary I would have thought.

This is taken from The West Londoner and a few mates have confirmed it via FB.


----------



## Big Gunz (Aug 9, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> How about giving them jobs, educational opportunities, better homes, recreational facilities, restoring EMA, sorting out the Met....just a thought, like



Yeah good call but a lot of these kids are from broken homes and have no interest in getting jobs and getting educated.  And carrying an almighty chip on their shoulder too doesn't help matters much too.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Loads of rumours flying around in Hackney Central today...My dad's neighbour telling me there was a riot on London Fields, there wasn't I walked through it minutes before.  Most shops closed but the streets were clean and people were just going about their daily buisness. Tesco in Hackney Central order to close by the time I left, managers told staff if they went home they would not be paid ffs!


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> I would speculate that not one of these looters have lost homes or livelihoods as a result of the actions of bankers and politicians, they're living in council houses and living off welfare. They aren't working class. Working class implies they are capable of an honest day's work. These little fuckers don't know what hard work is, which is why they're happy to fuck up small businesses.


That wasn't the question.  You said: "the only thing that will stop even more working class families from losing their homes and belongings unfortunately is force" (I added livelihoods etc).  I was asking if you hold that to be a universal truth.

(And least you wilfully misunderstand again, I am not saying the rioting is that force).


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> (my emphasis)
> 
> How many of those would be on offer I wonder? I've not heard many at all ...


Indeed.  I can't say I've heard any.


----------



## cybertect (Aug 9, 2011)

QueenOfGoths said:


> Cheers . The council feed will be useful, saw the "Asda in flames!" etc.. tweets last night and didn't want to get caught up in rumour again!



Sutton Council's Twitter feed is @lbsuttonnews

Not proving terribly useful apart from one blip of actual information about what's going on today. Last thing they tweeted was to exhort us not to retweet "rumours". In an official information vacuum about the borough, that's what will happen.


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> That wasn't the question. You said: "the only thing that will stop even more working class families from losing their homes and belongings unfortunately is force" (I added livelihoods etc). I was asking if you hold that to be a universal truth.
> 
> (And least you wilfully misunderstand again, I am not saying the rioting is that force).



Universal truth? This is Croydon, Peckham, this isn't some blanket ideal. This is what's needed now.

You can overintellectualise it all you like when it's over - but the only way to quash this shit is using the same shit THEY use on their victims.

Hurt them. Hit them hard.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> Universal truth? This is Croydon, Peckham, this isn't some blanket ideal. This is what's needed now.
> 
> You can overintellectualise it all you like when it's over - but the only way to quash this shit is using the same shit THEY use on their victims.
> 
> Hurt them. Hit them hard.


So in other words, no.  No, you don't think force is always the answer, only now.

Cheers.


----------



## likesfish (Aug 9, 2011)

Baton rounds are not harmless they are non lethal probably won't kill you depending on which strength is issued plus the cops have new guns with laser sights making chest hits more likely and less likely to add razor blades coins or lead shot or batteries to the round. Think of a grey flat faced dildo being fired at you with a shotgun cartridge definitly will fuck you up.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 9, 2011)

They could get the Paras to shoot some live rounds into the crowd. I'm sure that'd satisfy even the most violent punitive fantast.

... and we all know how well that's worked out in the past don't we ... ?


----------



## TruXta (Aug 9, 2011)

likesfish said:


> Baton rounds are not harmless they are non lethal probably won't kill you depending on which strength is issued plus the cops have new guns with laser sights making chest hits more likely and less likely to add razor blades coins or lead shot or batteries to the round. Think of a grey flat faced dildo being fired at you with a shotgun cartridge definitly will fuck you up.




 In a study of 90 patients in Northern Ireland, one died, 17 suffered permanent disabilities or deformities and 41 required hospital treatment after being fired upon with rubber bullets.


----------



## dylans (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> Universal truth? This is Croydon, Peckham, this isn't some blanket ideal. This is what's needed now.
> 
> You can overintellectualise it all you like when it's over - but the only way to quash this shit is using the same shit THEY use on their victims.
> 
> Hurt them. Hit them hard.


"Over intellectualise" is just a clever word for "think". So what you are really saying is that people shouldn't think and that the response to this social unrest should be deliberately mindless. Yes that sounds like a recipe for dealing with social unrest.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

spartacus mills said:


> 3.23pm: Nick Clegg has been heckled and told to "go home" during a visit to Birmingham. Boris Johnson is still being aggressively heckled in Clapham Junction.



I heard they tried to nab him to help with the clear up


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Wolverhampton today:


----------



## 1%er (Aug 9, 2011)

What is happening in England tonight?

Reading this board it seems the police are expecting more trouble, but I haven't heard that it is still going on.

Will 16,000 police and all this talk of "robust" action by the police make it better or worse?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> Victoria station is closed. Which is odd.



Tube or mainline?  

The tube station often shuts during the rush hour due to overcrowding


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 9, 2011)

TruXta said:


> In a study of 90 patients in Northern Ireland, one died, 17 suffered permanent disabilities or deformities and 41 required hospital treatment after being fired upon with rubber bullets.



The baton rounds used in NI were different to the ones the police would use here. The old ones were pretty nasty rectangular lumps that were supposed to be bounced off the ground into crowds.







Would be like getting hit by a cricket ball with corners on it.

Modern twelve gauge bean bag rounds are less lethal and more accurate.


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2011)

hoxton/shoreditch closing down cos of approaching mob that may/may not exist


----------



## likesfish (Aug 9, 2011)

Not used rubber bullets the improved Baton round is a neutral grey so less aggresive
( seriously) less likely to have a battery added or filled with lead shot. 
 Less lethal than live rounds and nail bombs etc etc.
   The rioters are not orgainised violence it's widespread looting what's needed is boots on the ground to arrest and deter them.
Rather than stand off weaponary although nothing says fuck off like a well placed baton round


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

cantsin said:


> hoxton/shoreditch closing down *cos of approaching mob* that may/may not exist



Yeah, heard this a few hours ago, I think the police are in on the rumour mill. Scare people to close up shop and head home....On the streets tonight after dark will be a dangerous place to be IMO. Loads of cops with new orders to crack down hard.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

I was going to "liberate" some bricks along Brixton Hill today but friend said "what if the police come by and see you walking around with bricks?"

Good point I think.  Will nab them later in the week.


----------



## DarthSydodyas (Aug 9, 2011)

Barking under guard now. Usual crappiola of damage and burning of various buildings beyond the town center. 

Some cars also burnt out. Westbury Arms (empty but locally historic) pub burnt out.

Just another day in Barking.


----------



## magneze (Aug 9, 2011)

This guy speaks a lot of sense.


----------



## telbert (Aug 9, 2011)

DarthSydodyas said:


> Barking under guard now. Usual crappiola of damage and burning of various buildings beyond the town center.
> 
> Some cars also burnt out. Westbury Arms (empty but locally historic) pub burnt out.
> 
> Just another day in Barking.


 
 I came past at about 4.30 pm today and all was quiet. I was just at the robin and saw about 5-6 O.B. cars scream past towards Barking.


----------



## Mr Blob (Aug 9, 2011)

Bus on fire in Canning Town just reported


----------



## magneze (Aug 9, 2011)

Where? In general I think it'd be good to get the source for each of of these. There's a whole world of difference between BBC, Sky, Twitter and someone down the pub.


----------



## Mr Blob (Aug 9, 2011)

magneze said:


> This guy speaks a lot of sense.



Thanks for this post- it was interesting to hear how this anonymoius person was voicing his grievances.  Problem is there's no easy solution for country's issues whoever is in government.  Managing the unmanageable


----------



## Mr Blob (Aug 9, 2011)

magneze said:


> Where? In general I think it'd be good to get the source for each of of these. There's a whole world of difference between BBC, Sky, Twitter and someone down the pub.


Heard this news on LBC radio


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Copter overhead and sirens  in Hackney after a hours of quiet...


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

1%er said:


> What is happening in England tonight?
> 
> Reading this board it seems the police are expecting more trouble, but I haven't heard that it is still going on.
> 
> Will 16,000 police and all this talk of "robust" action by the police make it better or worse?


There have been ongoing reports on the BBC of incidents here and there in London throughout the afternoon.  These have been low on detail, and it isn't clear how long they lasted.

There seems to be an ongoing situation in Brum, though and Manchester:



> 1844: Derrick Campbell, trapped between youths and police in Birmingham, goes on to say: "They've just attacked one of the Sky vehicles with sticks and missiles. The police are keeping them at bay, they've blocked the road off... I must admit that I am a little bit nervous, I'm not sure how I'm going to get home."
> 1844: The Central Housing Office in Salford, Greater Manchester, is on fire. Fire crews are said to be at the scene.



http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14449675


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

*1730: BBC reporter Lesley Ashmall tells 5 live the mood in Peckham is "tense" and a lot of people are very frightened at the prospect of more trouble.*


----------



## ddraig (Aug 9, 2011)

magneze said:


> This guy speaks a lot of sense.



thanks for posting that
all sense spoken there


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> *1730: BBC reporter Lesley Ashmall tells 5 live the mood in Peckham is "tense" and a lot of people are very frightened at the prospect of more trouble.*



I reckon she could go to anywhere in London and the situation would be "tense"


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I reckon she could go to anywhere in London and the situation would be "tense"


Aye, I suppose she could.


----------



## peterkro (Aug 9, 2011)

likesfish said:


> Not used rubber bullets the improved Baton round is a neutral grey so less aggresive
> ( seriously) less likely to have a battery added or filled with lead shot.
> Less lethal than live rounds and nail bombs etc etc.
> The rioters are not orgainised violence it's widespread looting what's needed is boots on the ground to arrest and deter them.
> Rather than stand off weaponary although nothing says fuck off like a well placed baton round


Especially if it's fired at a range of a few feet a common thing to happen in Ireland.


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Tube or mainline?
> 
> The tube station often shuts during the rush hour due to overcrowding



They're both open now.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

ChrisFilter said:


> They're both open now.



but which one was shut?


----------



## ChrisFilter (Aug 9, 2011)

Tube, but not due to overcrowding.


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Aug 9, 2011)

cantsin said:


> hoxton/shoreditch closing down cos of *approaching mob* that may/may not exist



This "approaching mob" has been all over the place today, according to police .
On the plus side I got sent home from work early due to it, though since I do live in the place it was supposedly approaching from, i was pleased to find it wasn't there when I got home.


----------



## rekil (Aug 9, 2011)

Wu Ming Blokes said:
			
		

> If Twitter played "key role" in the #londonriots, how come 4 Brits out of 5 tweeting on the subject are halfwits or even outright fascists?


Harsh but is it fair?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Ms Ordinary said:


> This "approaching mob" has been all over the place today, according to police .
> On the plus side I got sent home from work early due to it, though since I do live in the place it was supposedly approaching from, i was pleased to find it wasn't there when I got home.



You were just too fast for them Ms O


----------



## Mation (Aug 9, 2011)

I was outside a Carphone Warehouse this afternoon, when they were shutting up shop in an area that saw some rioting last night. The staff were putting signs up on the shutters saying that all stock had been removed from the premises. Seemed like an invitation to burn the empty building to me if it starts up there again tonight (which is why I'm not saying where it was) and the staff seemed to agree when I asked them about it. But they were acting on orders from their head office...


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Well let's start by affording them some dignity shall we and stop referring to them as The Underclass. The big, bad, dirty, scary underclass. Rather, let's think of them as fellow citizens, fellow human beings and tackle the difficulties they face; housing, education, poverty, healthcare, disenfranchisement with the institutions of society which have housed discrimination and reinforced negative stereotyping for decades.
> Let's broaden the horizons of the most disadvantaged shall we? Lets have a properly ringfenced budget for childrens services instead of scrapping surestart, let's make a budget and a network for national youth services (I don't believe we've ever tried that...) maybe get people doing community work around the country on an exchange type of arrangement.
> Let's give real support to parents and to grandparents, show care and respect for these people and we may reap some reward. Until we do that we will reap we sow.
> 
> There's an argument for legalising marijuana but lazy profiling and keeping the riff-raff of the street is not it.



Was just thinking they might like it, having somewhere to go and smoke drugs in the warm, where they can play pool.  To be honest, I haven´t thought it through; just a small idea anyway.

I made a few ironic references to the notion of referring to people as "The Underclass"; I am aware of labels etc; don´t need a lesson in that area.

It is probably hard to respect someone who is punching you in the face and smashing your shop up.


----------



## Starflesh (Aug 9, 2011)

Let´s get the riff-raff playing wiff-waff.


----------



## jonnyphotos (Aug 9, 2011)

Press blackout apparently, Guardian live feeds been pulled....


----------



## editor (Aug 9, 2011)

jonnyphotos said:


> Press blackout apparently, Guardian live feeds been pulled....


Pulled by who? Is this another Twitter rumour?


----------



## Spark (Aug 9, 2011)

Guardian live feed last updated at 8.06pm, so doesn't seem to have been pulled to me


----------



## quimcunx (Aug 9, 2011)

Sorry if posted already.  poverty/riot combo map.

http://maptube.org/map.aspx?m=ol&s=...e/misc/londonriots_verified_20110809_1514.kml


----------



## past caring (Aug 9, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> *1730: BBC reporter Lesley Ashmall tells 5 live the mood in Peckham is "tense" and a lot of people are very frightened at the prospect of more trouble.*



That's hardly abnormal, tbf.

Walked round Peckham Rye park about an hour ago - very quiet and not much by way of sirens in the distance either. Walking back up Forest Hill Road, most of the shops shut - only the chippy and the Turkish corner shop open. Had a word with the owner - plenty of locals been coming up volunteering to guard the shop with him apparently, but I doubt anything will make it up this far.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Aug 9, 2011)

There is smoke rising from somewhere to the north of Forest Gate station, possibly as faraway as Chingford not sure

Huge police pressense on Green St, about 30 PCs and PCSOs none in public order gear so just showing the uniform


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Apols if this has been posted already.  First time I've seen it though.


----------



## treelover (Aug 9, 2011)

'A grouping calling itself the North London Solidarity Federation (SolFed) has issued a statement in response to suggestions that anarchists are involved in disturbances.
SolFed, which describes itself as a federation of groups and individuals across England, Scotland & Wales, says in the statement

We are not involved in the looting and unlike the knee-jerk right or even the sympathetic-but-condemnatory commentators from the left, we will not condemn or condone those we don't know for taking back some of the wealth they have been denied all their lives. But as revolutionaries, we cannot condone attacks on working people, on the innocent. Burning out shops with homes above them, people's transport to work, muggings and the like are an attack on our own and should be resisted as strongly as any other measure from government "austerity" politics, to price-gouging landlords, to bosses intent on stealing our labour. Tonight and for as long as it takes, people should band together to defend themselves when such violence threatens homes and communities.'​ 
London Anarchist group call for self defence against rioters...


----------



## treelover (Aug 9, 2011)

'There has been a brief but worrying flashpoint in north Enfield - Hertford Road - with apparent attempts at vigilantism, reports Paul Lewis.





It was only a minor skirmish, but a potentially bad sign for community relations. Police, who have flooded the streets, were quickly on the scene when about 70 men
started chasing local youths.
I wouldn't mention their ethnicity, but it seemed to be relevant. The men were white - in their 30s and 40s - and shouting that they wanted to get the "blacks" and "pakis". Lots of them seemed drunk. One man being held back by police shouted: "They're rats, they mugged my Auntie the other night."
Jay Bradley, 30, a witness, told me: "What happened here? What I just saw - everyone from this area aren't gonna have any looting.
What I saw was a couple of ethnic lads, if you can call them that, black lads, and they chased them away'​
unfortunately racists are taking up the call...


----------



## elbows (Aug 9, 2011)

jonnyphotos said:


> Press blackout apparently, Guardian live feeds been pulled....



There isn't a blackout, but I would not be at all surprised if the media have been given 'advice' about quite how they cover events.

On a related note, check these two items from the BBC live news page this evening:



> *2028:*
> 
> Hazel Blears, the Labour MP for Salford and Eccles, tells BBC News she has spoken to her local police chief who feels that disorder in her constituency "is very much copycat behaviour" and says many of those "out and about" are "well known to the police". The former Home Office minister says she believes the activity in central Manchester is also copycat behaviour and that "wall to wall coverage" has almost encouraged people to join in.
> 
> ...


----------



## treelover (Aug 9, 2011)

Strange, Paul Lewis is now saying the white men were not being racist and were just chasing some black lads away from their businesses, etc.

weird stuff going down across the country, this is not going to end at all well...


----------



## ajdown (Aug 9, 2011)

I wonder where Anonymous are in all this...?


----------



## Sue (Aug 9, 2011)

cantsin said:


> hoxton/shoreditch closing down cos of approaching mob that may/may not exist


Yeah, heard this (and that there had been a riot in London Fields about 5 and that a mob was heading down towards Shoreditch etc) about 6. Walked through there on the way home about 6:30, no sign of anything. Much quieter than normal to be honest.

Also extremely quiet where I am in Hackney. No sign of the kids who usually hang about either.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 9, 2011)

Just seen half a dozen or more cop cars and vans going west down Goldhawk Road with sirens on, which may mean something happening in Acton or around that way.


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

ajdown said:


> I wonder where Anonymous are in all this...?



Collating the many pictures and helping authorities to nail the wankers, as far as I can tell.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Sue said:


> Also extremely quiet where I am in Hackney. No sign of the kids who usually hang about either.



Yeap! Am in Hackney too. Very quiet considering the kids are on holiday.


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'A grouping calling itself the North London Solidarity Federation (SolFed) has issued a statement in response to suggestions that anarchists are involved in disturbances.
> SolFed, which describes itself as a federation of groups and individuals across England, Scotland & Wales, says in the statement
> 
> We are not involved in the looting and unlike the knee-jerk right or even the sympathetic-but-condemnatory commentators from the left, we will not condemn or condone those we don't know for taking back some of the wealth they have been denied all their lives. But as revolutionaries, we cannot condone attacks on working people, on the innocent. Burning out shops with homes above them, people's transport to work, muggings and the like are an attack on our own and should be resisted as strongly as any other measure from government "austerity" politics, to price-gouging landlords, to bosses intent on stealing our labour. Tonight and for as long as it takes, people should band together to defend themselves when such violence threatens homes and communities.'​
> London Anarchist group call for self defence against rioters...



Oh good. Thank goodness we all got permission from the anarchos to give looters a beating.


----------



## harpo (Aug 9, 2011)

Saw smoke pouring from somewhere in Murray Grove (Shoreditch, Hoxtonish) when we went out 10 minutes ago.


----------



## treelover (Aug 9, 2011)

Clearly many youth who would not normally do these sort of things have been caught up in the maelstrom, a youth centre manager was earlier interviewed on Ch4 saying he knew a number of the youngsters from his projects and managed to divert them, the gangs must be stopped though..


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Just seen half a dozen or more cop cars and vans going west down Goldhawk Road with sirens on, which may mean something happening in Acton or around that way.



http://twitter.com/#!/search/Acton


----------



## treelover (Aug 9, 2011)

lots of High St's are going to be finished after all this, the big names will pull out, very sad...


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> lots of High St's are going to be finished after all this, the big names will pull out, very sad...


No they won't. They are insured. They will be back.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'A grouping calling itself the North London Solidarity Federation (SolFed) has issued a statement in response to suggestions that anarchists are involved in disturbances.
> SolFed, which describes itself as a federation of groups and individuals across England, Scotland & Wales, says in the statement
> We are not involved in the looting and unlike the knee-jerk right or even the sympathetic-but-condemnatory commentators from the left, we will not condemn or condone those we don't know for taking back some of the wealth they have been denied all their lives. But as revolutionaries, we cannot condone attacks on working people, on the innocent. Burning out shops with homes above them, people's transport to work, muggings and the like are an attack on our own and should be resisted as strongly as any other measure from government "austerity" politics, to price-gouging landlords, to bosses intent on stealing our labour. Tonight and for as long as it takes, people should band together to defend themselves when such violence threatens homes and communities.'​
> London Anarchist group call for self defence against rioters...


 
The Anarchos must now put their money where their mouth is if they want anyone to believe they can mobilize. Sorry, but I always get the impression that it's one person on his PC typing away on behalf of an imaginary movement.

However, real Vigilante groups are stepping into the vacuum and are being formed in at least 2 locations.

A football fan related crowd are patrolling Enfield and in Southall a large turnout of Seik men are on guard around their temple.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> http://twitter.com/#!/search/Acton


Eh, Twitter. It's been less than helpful so far.

Incidentally there is nothing happening in Shepherds Bush. Lots of people closed early and have pulled down shutters - here and in Hammersmith, on specific advice from the cops yesterday I heard - but that's it. (Though this would not be the best time to be a teenager on the streets, particularly if you were black and male and wearing a hoodie and with a couple of friends.)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> lots of High St's are going to be finished after all this, the big names will pull out, very sad...



Nonsense.  M&S never pulled out of Brixton after any of the riots.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

harpo said:


> Saw smoke pouring from somewhere in Murray Grove (Shoreditch, Hoxtonish) when we went out 10 minutes ago.





> hoxbot shoreditch
> 
> RT @EthanMcClean @HJonesy all very quiet around *Hoxton* square and Curtain Road.


----------



## belboid (Aug 9, 2011)

treelover said:


> lots of High St's are going to be finished after all this, the big names will pull out, very sad...


i wish they would. the corporatised high streetis horrible.  shame there isn't the remotest possibility of it happening


----------



## harpo (Aug 9, 2011)

Murray Grove is a good half mile west of there.  It seems to have come to nothing anyway.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Eh, Twitter. It's been less than helpful so far.
> 
> )


I know. However given you post above I thought that if anything was kicking off...which it isn't, you'd like to know.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

harpo said:


> Murray Grove is a good half mile west of there.


I know Murray Grove well thank you.
Serious clashes in Shoreditch apparently:



> writehandmedia Sonya Thomas
> 
> <smile> RT @Nero: Major clashes reported in *Shoreditch*. Hipster spotted in purple skinny jeans, yellow plaid and blue cashmere scarf.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I was going to "liberate" some bricks along Brixton Hill today but friend said "what if the police come by and see you walking around with bricks?"
> 
> Good point I think. Will nab them later in the week.



It's just occurred to me you might think I'm a secret rioter.  The bricks are actually just to stand some pot plants on in my garden


----------



## Sue (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> The bricks are actually just to stand some pot plants on in my garden



So you *claim* anyway....


----------



## harpo (Aug 9, 2011)

Then you'll know it's nowhere near Curtain Road.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

> Then you'll know it's nowhere near Curtain Road.​



Eh? 
You posted this:



harpo said:


> Saw smoke pouring from somewhere in Murray Grove (Shoreditch, Hoxtonish) when we went out 10 minutes ago.



Hoxton is 10 minutes walk to MG.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Sue said:


> So you *claim* anyway....



I did have a plant pot in my hand when I was thinking of liberating the bricks, so I could use that as proof if the police if pulled me.


----------



## Sue (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> I did have a plant pot in my hand when I was thinking of liberating the bricks, so I could use that as proof if the police if pulled me.


Premeditation -- even worse...


----------



## Steel Icarus (Aug 9, 2011)

"These feral creatures have no respect for human life"


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Sue said:


> Premeditation -- even worse...





Anyway, I consider it my duty to keep a bit of Brixton tidy and if that means nicking a few bricks, I'm happy to help.

If Lambeth aren't going to remove them, I'll help them out


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 9, 2011)

My friend just said that the National Front are marching from Eltham to Lewisham right now (I don't know where she got this from so could be completely untrue - but if true, not great obviously).


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> "These feral creatures have no respect for human life"



who?


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Aug 9, 2011)

Heard them described as "feral rats" on the BBC 10 o'clock news. I despair.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> My friend just said that the National Front are marching from Eltham to Lewisham right now (I don't know where she got this from so could be completely untrue - but if true, not great obviously).



According to West Londoner



> LBC radio are reporting around 2000 people moving from Eltham to Lewisham to “reclaim the streets”.



*IF* these 2000 people *are *NF, this could turn nasty


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 9, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> My friend just said that the National Front are marching from Eltham to Lewisham right now (I don't know where she got this from so could be completely untrue - but if true, not great obviously).



Actually forget this - it's doubtless a twitter rumour gone wrong...


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Heard them described as "feral rats" on the BBC 10 o'clock news. I despair.



Even though that's exactly how they behaved.


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 9, 2011)

oh fuck...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Heard them described as "feral rats" on the BBC 10 o'clock news. I despair.



I know, I was just wondering who Steely was referring to or whether he was quoting something and had missed something out 

That's that Clapham woman innit?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> oh fuck...



from West Londoner









> 2218: Fireball in Eltham, very close to Shoezone:


----------



## IC3D (Aug 9, 2011)

Seems legit http://london.craigslist.co.uk/mob/2536072357.html


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 9, 2011)

What's West Londoner?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> Actually forget this - it's doubtless a twitter rumour gone wrong...


Apparently the Eltham 'march' to Lewisham has been reported on LBC.


----------



## spartacus mills (Aug 9, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> My friend just said that the National Front are marching from Eltham to Lewisham right now (I don't know where she got this from so could be completely untrue - but if true, not great obviously).



The Guardian blogs says:



> 10.24pm: Groups of men have taken to the streets in south London "to protect their communities", reports the Guardian's Matt Taylor.
> Around 200 people are still out in the centre of Eltham in south east London, following rumours that the are was going to be the latest place to be hit by disturbances.
> *The group, predominantly men, had been congregating in pubs since the rumours began to circulate in mid afternoon.*



So it's some pissed-up blokes who've spent the afternoon in the boozer...


----------



## spitfire (Aug 9, 2011)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Heard them described as "feral rats" on the BBC 10 o'clock news. I despair.



To be fair the lady had her shop looted, she's entitled to a bit of a vent. I'd be calling them worse.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

spartacus mills said:


> So it's some pissed-up blokes who've spent the afternoon in the boozer...


In the absence of rival football fans, they will seek out others to ruck with.


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 9, 2011)

some other people saying it's Millwall supporters and is organised on their boards...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> What's West Londoner?


 
This.  Been following it since the riots started and by far the most reliable info (barring a few exceptions which they've normally been quick to rectify).

http://thewestlondoner.wordpress.com/author/rickrambles/


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> some other people saying it's Millwall supporters and is organised on their boards...



Millwall.  National Front.  Same thing more or less


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> This. Been following it since the riots started and by far the most reliable info (barring a few exceptions which they've normally been quick to rectify).
> 
> http://thewestlondoner.wordpress.com/author/rickrambles/



oh right, cheers.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> some other people saying it's Millwall supporters and is organised on their boards...


Nice. Can't wait to see/hear them again. Weren't even safe in the family enclosure when I worked there as a steward years ago.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> In the absence of rival football fans, they will seek out others to ruck with.



Yep, I remember decades ago when Millwall played Southend.  Only coincided with a Bank Holiday riot with skinheads


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 9, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Millwall. National Front. Same thing more or less



I just got told off for saying that here...


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> I just got told off for saying that here...



Well I did say "more or less" 

Who told you off so I can hide when they make an appearance?


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 9, 2011)

you won't need to hide... it was just a mild "voice of reason" kind of telling off... I said "tantamount to" myself..


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Aug 9, 2011)

spitfire said:


> To be fair the lady had her shop looted, she's entitled to a bit of a vent. I'd be calling them worse.


Yes she's been all over the news and the radio asking how people could do such a thing to baby clothes.
She sounds like a venomous drip to me. My sympathy for her predicament evaporates in the heat of her vitriol.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 9, 2011)

i hope
the eltham/millwall/racist/cunts get their thick skulls smashed right in


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> you won't need to hide... it was just a mild "voice of reason" kind of telling off... I said "tantamount to" myself..



Well maybe they've grown up a bit since the late 70s/early 80s 

My brother was chucked in a police van full of them once.  Can't remember why, but I think he felt on a par with how I felt when I got chucked on a tube train full of skinheads


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

ddraig said:


> i hope
> the eltham/millwall/racist/cunts get their thick skulls smashed right in



More likely they will come across random Black or Asian men and attack them for being Black or Asian.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> Even though that's exactly how they behaved.


But we make allowances for you and hold our tongues when you act like a caustic cunt. Manners. We were nicely brought up, see.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 9, 2011)

Don't be too quick to judge. You don't know if they are NF.

I would think that a lot of people would be up for patrolling the streets after last nights no show by the police. Probably more an age thing than a political thing.

At least they're out doing something, ffs.

If there was a real left wing movement in britain we would have workers/neighbours patrols out on the street right now doing the job. Instead, due to a paralizing political correctness, the initiative is blandly handed to the right.

I mean, what is your thinking. Most of the looters are black therefore anyone who is a vigilante is autmatically a nazi. That sucks.


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> But we make allowances for you and hold our tongues when you act like a caustic cunt. Manners. We were nicely brought up, see.



Manners?? When speaking about feral rat scum? I don't think so.

http://london.craigslist.co.uk/mob/2536072357.html

Oh look - 40 looted iPhones on Craigslist (for any cops watching)


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

anyway, reports in Eltham are being looked into



> Picture below of Eltham is of a flare, not a bomb – Lewisham appears to be quiet despite large group of people reported there earlier


----------



## teqniq (Aug 9, 2011)

Can anyone else confirm 'share' function disabled in Facebook? Neither mine nor my daughter's works atm....

Thought if true may be relevant to current events


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Don't be too quick to judge. You don't know if they are NF (like all 30 of them).
> 
> I would think that a lot of people would be up for patrolling the streets after last nights no show by the police. Probably more an age thing than a political thing.
> 
> ...



If they are worried about their streets why are they marching from the pubs in Eltham towards Lewisham. The MEt have up to 16, 000 officers tonight, we don't need tanked up vigilantes roaming around.


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Don't be too quick to judge. You don't know if they are NF (like all 30 of them).
> 
> I would think that a lot of people would be up for patrolling the streets after last nights no show by the police. Probably more an age thing than a political thing.
> 
> ...



Thank fuck someone here talks some sense.
The left have done less than fuck all as far as I can see.
Their chance to show solidarity toward the REAL working classes smothered.

Proof that this country is more than capable of sorting itself out without the joke that the left has become.
Those with brooms sweeping up today weren't aligned with the left, they just took the initiative themselves.

And just as much anger towards EDL scum still exists.
Proves you can be against the feral rats AND the racists and actually achieve something for the community without all the tired old Marxist doggerel getting in the way of common sense.
Best thing to come out about these riots/looting IMO.


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

teqniq said:


> Can anyone else confirm 'share' function disabled in Facebook? Neither mine nor my daughter's works atm....
> 
> Thought if true may be relevant to current events



Seems to be blocked for me actually... edit, no wait - it's working...


----------



## IC3D (Aug 9, 2011)

embarrassing for these old politicians on newsnight shouting down composed eluquent youth ATM


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 9, 2011)

I think the NF thing is bullshit actually. Just another rumour.


----------



## spitfire (Aug 9, 2011)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Yes she's been all over the news and the radio asking how people could do such a thing to baby clothes.
> She sounds like a venomous drip to me. My sympathy for her predicament evaporates in the heat of her vitriol.



Like i said, I'd be pretty vitriolic if someone did that to my premises. You would be a bit more philosophical about it all I guess? She's a bit posh and annoying but surely you can understand her anger?


----------



## IC3D (Aug 9, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> I think the NF thing is bullshit actually. Just another rumour.


Its Millwall they're all Nazis, people saying this is enflaming stuff


----------



## teqniq (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> Seems to be blocked for me actually... edit, no wait - it's working...



nope still no worky, for me at least.


----------



## TruXta (Aug 9, 2011)

IC3D said:


> embarrassing for these old politicians on newsnight shouting down composed eluquent youth ATM



They're holding their own very well. McKenzie should be stripped naked and whipped.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 9, 2011)

You can just make out the anti riot march in Eltham in this recent video. Ignore the title. It  also seems that this afternoon while it was still light you could hear chants of EDL from at least one group of about 20 in that area by the pubs. No other confirmation on the make up of the much larger group in this video.


----------



## junglevip (Aug 9, 2011)

gove is an idiot


----------



## belboid (Aug 9, 2011)

IC3D said:


> embarrassing for these old politicians on newsnight shouting down composed eluquent youth ATM


to be fair to the woman (who is really fucking irritatingly hypocritcal) she isn't a politician, she's just someone who something really nasty happened to and who then got set up as a speaker for 'silent britain'


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Aug 9, 2011)

I can certainly understand her anger, her despair and I'm sure her emotions are running high. However to dehumanise people by likening them to rats and scum and all these other stupid, dismissive insults is either a sign of ignorance or stupidity. 
If it were me I'm sure I'd be personally devastated but I would not speak like that as I have more than three brain cells to rub together.


----------



## spitfire (Aug 9, 2011)

Well, good for you.


----------



## TruXta (Aug 9, 2011)

belboid said:


> to be fair to the woman (who is really fucking irritatingly hypocritcal) she isn't a politician, she's just someone who something really nasty happened to and who then got set up as a speaker for 'silent britain'



MacKenzie's not a politico either is he? Just a weapons-grade psychopath arsehole.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Aug 9, 2011)

spitfire said:


> Well, good for you.


You did ask.


----------



## lizzieloo (Aug 9, 2011)

There's a party going on in Windrush Square in Brixton


----------



## spitfire (Aug 9, 2011)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> You did ask.



I did, your response is all a bit "ivory castle' for me but you seem like a nice person so I guess we are going to have to disagree on this.

not very urbz i know. sorry.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

Fire in Seven Sisters, by the tube. Not clear if looting/riot related.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 9, 2011)

spitfire said:


> Like i said, I'd be pretty vitriolic if someone did that to my premises. You would be a bit more philosophical about it all I guess? She's a bit posh and annoying but surely you can understand her anger?



The posh cunt should shut the fuck up, shame she wasn't torched.


----------



## dynamicbaddog (Aug 9, 2011)

lizzieloo said:


> There's a party going on in Windrush Square in Brixton


I read on facebook that  40 or so  people gathered  in Deptford for an informal 'We love Deptford High Street' meeting tonight.


----------



## belboid (Aug 9, 2011)

TruXta said:


> MacKenzie's not a politico either is he? Just a weapons-grade psychopath arsehole.


true, just a rentagob pk wannabe.

I want to riot after watching Gove's performance


----------



## spitfire (Aug 9, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The posh cunt should shut the fuck up, shame she wasn't torched.



I'm not going to get into a pointless row with you pal, especially over someone i don't know or particularly care about. I just thought pulling her up about calling them names after her shop's been trashed is a bit rich.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Aug 9, 2011)

Sirens everywhere but no reports of major disturbances?


----------



## Belushi (Aug 9, 2011)

dynamicbaddog said:


> I read on facebook that  40 or so people gathered in Deptford for an informal 'We love Deptford High Street' meeting tonight.



I went to a mass meditation in Trafalgar Square to counterbalance the riots earlier


----------



## magneze (Aug 9, 2011)

Large group of men in Eltham run through the streets chanting "England". 
http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW

(from Guardian Live Blog)


----------



## cantsin (Aug 9, 2011)

pk said:


> Oh good. Thank goodness we all got permission from the anarchos to give looters a beating.



you're such a fucking twerp


----------



## oryx (Aug 9, 2011)

Just driven all the way through S London via the South Circular and it is as quiet as the grave - like New Year's or Christmas Day.

Didn't go as far as Eltham, though.


----------



## 1%er (Aug 9, 2011)

London radio saying this is the biggest police operation in Europe ever


----------



## IC3D (Aug 9, 2011)

magneze said:


> Large group of men in Eltham run through the streets chanting "England".
> http://www.twitvid.com/DWZPW
> 
> (from Guardian Live Blog)


A mate was there, said it was fun  never seen him run before though


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 9, 2011)

1%er said:


> London radio saying this is the biggest police operation in Europe ever



Did they say "one of the slowest" as well?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

IC3D said:


> A mate was there, said it was fun  never seen him run before though


Your mate?


----------



## IC3D (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Your mate?


Its an odd one true but someone I call a mate and not a bad bloke in the way your thinking.


----------



## pk (Aug 9, 2011)

cantsin said:


> you're such a fucking twerp



I just thought it was hilarious that anarchist spokespeople are still deluded enough to believe that anyone gives a fuck about their position.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

IC3D said:


> Its an odd one true but someone I call a mate and not a bad bloke in the way your thinking.


You know what I am thinking? Amazing.


----------



## IC3D (Aug 9, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> You know what I am thinking? Amazing.


I'm Mystic meg you know.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 9, 2011)

IC3D said:


> I'm Mystic meg you know.


With friends who find 'fun' in very weird places.


----------



## Corax (Aug 10, 2011)

Isn't pretty much nothing happening tonight, and it's just the media and people on the internet masturbating together?


----------



## IC3D (Aug 10, 2011)

.


----------



## dynamicbaddog (Aug 10, 2011)

IC3D said:


> Millwall was canceled so they went looking for the looters responsible, not my cup of tea though.


they seem to be getting a lot of support for what they have been doing
http://twitter.com/#!/search?q=#Millwall
''no one loots us''


----------



## TruXta (Aug 10, 2011)

Corax said:


> Isn't pretty much nothing happening tonight, and it's just the media and people on the internet masturbating together?



Manchester didn't seem like nothing, but sure, London is much quieter.


----------



## skitr (Aug 10, 2011)

Corax said:


> Isn't pretty much nothing happening tonight, and it's just the media and people on the internet masturbating together?



No. Manchester went off, but it was much earlier, same as B'ham. Difference is today it's been much earlier.


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The posh cunt should shut the fuck up, shame she wasn't torched.



quoted.


----------



## Dowie (Aug 10, 2011)

Check out this non-human scumbag robbing a shop in London - if anyone knows him please shop him to the police!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mHvSDZnvfE


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 10, 2011)

Dowie said:


> Check out this non-human scumbag robbing a shop in London - if anyone knows him please shop him to the police!
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mHvSDZnvfE



Done already today and months ago and years ago probably


----------



## Corax (Aug 10, 2011)

I was out at the time, but reports make it look far less than anything previously.  Page 4 stuff in other circumstances.


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## Corax (Aug 10, 2011)

From a local PCSO on twitter.  Yes, a PCSO.  Is he stupid?

40 youths masked on bikes throwing rocks at a police van Shirley High Street, made off when challenged *#**southampton* #police


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## treelover (Aug 10, 2011)

'Simon Hughes, on BBC London radio, has just said words to the effect that “there are people on the streets now making “class-based arguments” - and that these people need to be “taken out” (!) as they are doing “the most damage”.'

who does he mean?


----------



## noodles (Aug 10, 2011)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> The posh cunt should shut the fuck up, shame she wasn't torched.



God, you're such a wevolutionary aren't you? Prat.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> 'Simon Hughes, on BBC London radio, has just said words to the effect that “there are people on the streets now making “class-based arguments” - and that these people need to be “taken out” (!) as they are doing “the most damage”.'
> 
> who does he mean?



Well, 'taken out' traditionally means 'killed' ... In this case apparently for pointing out the role of neo-liberal capitalism in creating an irredeemably alienated violent underclass. Something that they'd prefer people not to think about for obvious reasons.

Bit of a severe reaction to cognitive dissonance I'd have thought, but I'm not a liberal MP.


----------



## Corax (Aug 10, 2011)

Corax said:


> From a local PCSO on twitter. Yes, a PCSO. Is he stupid?
> 
> 40 youths masked on bikes throwing rocks at a police van Shirley High Street, made off when challenged *#**southampton* #police


Followed by:

Warren Avenue wheelie bins being set on fire *#**southampton* #police

Good stuff PCSO Banks, let anyone looking for trouble know where to head for.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 10, 2011)

IC3D said:


> A mate was there, said it was fun  never seen him run before though



Video of the football lot having a fun time in Enfield. They were not EDl even though the Edl would love to have hijacked it. They were not hunting blacks either as the video shows. If I was from round there I would have gone on it, too.


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## BlackArab (Aug 10, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Video of the football lot having a fun time in Enfield. They were not EDl even though the Edl would love to have hijacked it. They were not hunting blacks either as the video shows. If I was from round there I would have gone on it, too.




They remind me of a lot of people I know at football. I can imagine they and the Hackney woman in the video a few pages back share similair feelings about the looting and vandalism.


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## 5t3IIa (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> I tell you what fuck off you patronising grumpy arse, who are you to define *my* community? I usually have a lot of time for you but cock off and take your shitty mood out on someone else.
> 
> What I'm doing right now is preparing to go to bed after running my self ragged organising and running a community party yesterday and having a massive clear up job today. Most of what I see as *my* community were at that party yesterday.
> 
> Make your point about unconfirmed reports fair enough but don't lecture me on my community and how I should define it. You have no clue.



there you go.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

5t3IIa said:


> there you go.



Yes, and what is your point?


----------



## 5t3IIa (Aug 10, 2011)

You pick and choose your community.


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## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

5t3IIa said:


> You pick and choose your community.



No, I live in my community, this includes the people I see day to day, share local area and services with, organise projects with, local shop keepers also etc. That is my immediate community. There is of course a wider community, which extends across the Borough and all of London. People I have links with, friends, colleagues, family, associates and others that I share experiences and interests with.

As I suspected you haven't got a point or a clue. You are trying hard to make a non-point, sniping, childish and pathetic. Leave me alone now please unless you have anything constructive to discuss.


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Video of the football lot having a fun time in Enfield. They were not EDl even though the Edl would love to have hijacked it. They were not hunting blacks either as the video shows. If I was from round there I would have gone on it, too.




Eltham, not Enfield. It's the "white", "racist" Millwall lot.


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## scooter (Aug 10, 2011)

Enfield I think. There is a Brown Eagle there - up near Ordnance Road - and I know there were hundreds out last night wandering around looking for looters.


----------



## past caring (Aug 10, 2011)

You're right - hadn't noticed the Brown Eagle, though looks very like Eltham Hill otherwise. And not unrepresentative of the bods who were out there.


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## marty21 (Aug 10, 2011)

just had a thought - the looters were looting newsagents and that - I'm assuming they would have grabbed Lottery scratch cards along with the fags and booze - if they were to win on those cards - and went to claim - would the lottery people know that they had been looted? and could they be nabbed for it then, and ....would they get the prize money?


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 10, 2011)

marty21 said:


> just had a thought - the looters were looting newsagents and that - I'm assuming they would have grabbed Lottery scratch cards along with the fags and booze - if they were to win on those cards - and went to claim - would the lottery people know that they had been looted? and could they be nabbed for it then, and ....would they get the prize money?



Have you been offered some half-price scratchcards then?


----------



## marty21 (Aug 10, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Have you been offered some half-price scratchcards then?


not yet


----------



## sunnysidedown (Aug 10, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> Have you been offered some half-price scratchcards then?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 10, 2011)

marty21 said:


> just had a thought - the looters were looting newsagents and that - I'm assuming they would have grabbed Lottery scratch cards along with the fags and booze - if they were to win on those cards - and went to claim - would the lottery people know that they had been looted? and could they be nabbed for it then, and ....would they get the prize money?


Each retailer is registered and the serial nos. of their batches of scratchcards are noted. If those batches are reported stolen, then the cards become void.


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## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 10, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Each retailer is registered and the serial nos. of their batches of scratchcards are noted. If those batches are reported stolen, then the cards become void.


 
bad luck Marty


----------



## dynamicbaddog (Aug 10, 2011)

video  from the Guardian of the Millwall fans protecting Eltham last night.

http://www.101greatgoals.com/videod...riots-were-doing-the-job-the-police-14827861/


----------



## marty21 (Aug 10, 2011)

Minnie_the_Minx said:


> bad luck Marty


I just thought of it as a way of catching the looters - they probably don't realise the cards are voided - and would try and claim the money


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

marty21 said:


> I just thought of it as a way of catching the looters - they probably don't realise the cards are voided - and would try and claim the money



I don't think they can pinpoint which cards are in which stores: they can't here, at any rate. When a winning ticket goes unclaimed, they can tell which city it was sold in, but that's it.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Aug 10, 2011)

marty21 said:


> I just thought of it as a way of catching the looters - they probably don't realise the cards are voided - and would try and claim the money



Of course


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 10, 2011)

anyone else struggling to believe that the whole political establishment are in shock over this? Wasn't exactly difficult to see coming after cutting social services, youth services, policing, while real wages drop, employment stagnates and inflation rises, was it?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> anyone else struggling to believe that the whole political establishment are in shock over this? Wasn't exactly difficult to see coming after cutting social services, youth services, policing, while real wages drop, employment stagnates and inflation rises, was it?



If I did believe them I would be even more concerned than I already am....They are supposed to be the 'educated' ones after all.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> If I did believe them I would be even more concerned than I already am....They are supposed to be the 'educated' ones after all.


Is it better that they're lying or that they're genuinely that ignorant of what's going on out there?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> anyone else struggling to believe that the whole political establishment are in shock over this? Wasn't exactly difficult to see coming after cutting social services, youth services, policing, while real wages drop, employment stagnates and inflation rises, was it?



I don't think that's it. Or more fair to say that's not all of it.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> Is it better that they're lying or that they're genuinely that ignorant of what's going on out there?



Rock and hard place innit?


----------



## bi0boy (Aug 10, 2011)

marty21 said:


> I just thought of it as a way of catching the looters - they probably don't realise the cards are voided - and would try and claim the money



What's wrong with looting lottery tickets


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 10, 2011)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> I don't think that's it. Or more fair to say that's not all of it.


I didn't say I thought that was all of it. Just that if you didn't have a reasonable expectation of social unrest this summer, you weren't paying attention.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 10, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> anyone else struggling to believe that the whole political establishment are in shock over this? Wasn't exactly difficult to see coming after cutting social services, youth services, policing, while real wages drop, employment stagnates and inflation rises, was it?



I don't think they're in shock so much as panic.

They're shitting themselves at the idea that the electorate will start making a connection between 30 years of neo-liberal policies and the mob of feral youth currently burning people's cars and pissing through their letterboxes.

The problem is they can't think of anything to do about it besides loudly conflating 'explain' with 'excuse' and screaming like angry gibbons to shout down anyone talking about causes.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 10, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I don't think they're in shock so much as panic.
> 
> They're shitting themselves at the idea that the electorate will start making a connection between 30 years of neo-liberal policies and the mob of feral youth currently burning people's cars and pissing through their letterboxes.


I mean you got people like Diane Abbott on the news saying "I've been at MP here for 25 years ..." and you're thinking, "and it's still like this, bang up job you've done, eh?"


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 10, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> I don't think they're in shock so much as panic.
> 
> They're shitting themselves at the idea that the electorate will start making a connection between 30 years of neo-liberal policies and the mob of feral youth currently burning people's cars and pissing through their letterboxes.
> 
> The problem is they can't think of anything to do about it besides loudly conflating 'explain' with 'excuse' and screaming like angry monkeys to shout down anyone talking about causes.


they needn't worry, I've not heard many making the connection. More calling for the army.


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## Lo Siento. (Aug 10, 2011)

I mean, we're stuck on a ridiculous narrative at the moment - that all of this is just bad men/kids running rampage, and when it's all over we can return to our nice little tranquil lives, safe in an ordered society. Everything will be fine if all the nice people come and sweep up after. It's a dream world cause if we keep heading in the same direction this is the future.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 10, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> they needn't worry, I've not heard many making the connection. More calling for the army.



Yep, but all the more reason to try to win the battle of ideas over this.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> I didn't say I thought that was all of it. Just that if you didn't have a reasonable expectation of social unrest this summer, you weren't paying attention.



I just don't think there is a one-to-one correlation between cutting social programs, closing youth centers; and kids throwing rocks through store windows.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Sorry if this is a re-post:



> *A CALL FOR MORE UNDERSTANDING AND LESS MORALISING*
> 
> On Tuesday, 9 August, scholar and anti-racist activist Paul Gilroy tweeted: ‘When did ritual condemnation become the entry ticket into official public discourse?’
> In the aftermath of the London riots, we are disturbed by a situation where seeking to understand the bigger picture becomes equated with condoning violence, looting and gang culture.
> ...



http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/a-call-for-more-understanding-and-less-moralising.html


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## belboid (Aug 10, 2011)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> I just don't think there is a one-to-one correlation between cutting social programs, closing youth centers; and kids throwing rocks through store windows.


no one claims there is


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 10, 2011)

belboid said:


> no one claims there is



This was one of the tricks Michael Gove was trying on Newsnight last night (he gave up on argument and started screaming like an angry gibbon and throwing poo around after a while)

Of course nobody is claiming a "one-to-one correspondance", except for neo-liberal apologists who want something easier to argue against than what their critics are actually saying.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 10, 2011)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> I just don't think there is a one-to-one correlation between cutting social programs, closing youth centers; and kids throwing rocks through store windows.


except that's the main difference between the last few years and now. It's not rational to say that London has suddenly acquired loads of bad men and kids, just from nowhere.

It's not a 1-to-1 connection, of course, there's plenty of other factors at play. The looting is pretty logical in a society in which we're constantly told that the only reasonable aspiration in life is acquisition.


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## treelover (Aug 10, 2011)

genuine question, why did the youth in Eltham respond differently than in many other London areas? is it slightly wealthier, cohesive, I am aware Tottenham has a good community spirit.


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## Badgers (Aug 10, 2011)

treelover said:


> genuine question, why did the youth in Eltham respond differently than in many other London areas? is it slightly wealthier, cohesive, I am aware Tottenham has a good community spirit.



More warning than some areas?


----------



## Ted Striker (Aug 10, 2011)

Wait til the end...


----------



## dynamicbaddog (Aug 10, 2011)

good atmosphere down Deptford High Street this afternoon. It's market day and most of the stalls are out (tho they are starting to pack up earlier than usual). Lots of old bill patrolling and getting a mixed response from the stallholders and shoppers, some were congratulating  them and asking if they were O.K. but there were also shouts of 'were were you?' and of course 'Millwaaall'


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## dennisr (Aug 10, 2011)

Ted Striker said:


> Wait til the end...



arf


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 10, 2011)

dynamicbaddog said:


> video from the Guardian of the Millwall fans protecting Eltham last night.
> 
> http://www.101greatgoals.com/videod...riots-were-doing-the-job-the-police-14827861/



Well worth the watch. Not a trace of racism, just locals standing by to defend their area.


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## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> except that's the main difference between the last few years and now. It's not rational to say that London has suddenly acquired loads of bad men and kids, just from nowhere.
> 
> It's not a 1-to-1 connection, of course, there's plenty of other factors at play. The looting is pretty logical in a society in which we're constantly told that the only reasonable aspiration in life is acquisition.



It doesn't explain why relatively well off kids here in Vancouver burned police cars and torched buildings. I suspect that there might be things in common between the motivation - whatever it is - driving the kids in Vancouver to destroy, and the motivation behind at least some of the rioters in London.


----------



## Numbers (Aug 10, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Well worth the watch. Not a trace of racism, just locals standing by to defend their area.


The guy with the spliff behind his ear at 2:40


----------



## Lo Siento. (Aug 10, 2011)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> It doesn't explain why relatively well off kids here in Vancouver burned police cars and torched buildings. I suspect that there might be things in common between the motivation - whatever it is - driving the kids in Vancouver to destroy, and the motivation behind at least some of the rioters in London.


but what was the difference between Sunday/the days after and any other normal days? I mean, there's also a logic to the Vancouver riots - they lost, people had been drinking, there's a violence endemic to that particular sport etc.


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 10, 2011)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> I just don't think there is a one-to-one correlation between cutting social programs, closing youth centers; and kids throwing rocks through store windows.


It's a lot more than that though; thirty years of de-industrialisation and thatcherite neoliberalism has created an underclass, deprived of sufficient education (crap schools, soaring Uni fees if they get that far), opportunities, prosperity, or any chance to enjoy the full and legitimately-acquired fruits of the rampantly individualist, consumerist society that is shoved down their throats every day, but condemned to life on shitty, crumbling estates, in blighted inner cities where drugs, gangs and guns are rife, and precious little chance of bettering themselves, forsaken and forgotten in fact. add to that that the past 3 years have been an economic disaster for working-class youth. This society has done nothing for them except demonise them and sneer at them; why should they play by its' rules?


----------



## TitanSound (Aug 10, 2011)

Police from Lancashire and Wales patrolling Oxford St and the surrounding areas at the mo.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Police have asked pubs in Eltham to close up for the night.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Sorry if this is a re-post:
> 
> http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/a-call-for-more-understanding-and-less-moralising.html



Thanks for posting that. I'm a big fan of professor Gilroy.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Thanks for posting that. I'm a big fan of professor Gilroy.


Me too


----------



## ferrelhadley (Aug 10, 2011)

So in the end we did not need the army to quell the worst rioting in decades in London, nor did we need water canons, the suspension of PACE or any of the other measures being screamed for.

What it did take was a massive police presence and a bit of pre-emptive policing. We can still police this country with a largely fire arm free police force.

Oh and numbers do count. Cheers for the 20% cuts Dave, we wont notice a thing.


----------



## Greebo (Aug 10, 2011)

ferrelhadley said:


> What it did take was a massive police presence and a bit of pre-emptive policing. We can still police this country with a largely fire arm free police force.
> 
> Oh and numbers do count. Cheers for the 20% cuts Dave, we wont notice a thing.


Word.


----------



## bi0boy (Aug 10, 2011)

How long can the police sustain this number of officers on the street for?


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 10, 2011)

Eltham going off atm, not entirely clear whether its rioters or the local vigilantes fighting police


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 10, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> Eltham going off atm, not entirely clear whether its rioters or the local vigilantes fighting police



Wasn't that where the police had to divert a bunch of resources last night to cope with a pack of drunken EDL dickheads wanting to play at being Batman?


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 10, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Wasn't that where the police had to divert a bunch of resources last night to cope with a pack of drunken EDL dickheads wanting to play at being Batman?


indeed.


----------



## skitr (Aug 10, 2011)

fieldproducer Neal Mann  

So it appears that police have now had to divert large resources in #Eltham to deal with 'vigilantes' #Londonriots


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Wasn't that where the police had to divert a bunch of resources last night to cope with a pack of drunken EDL dickheads wanting to play at being Batman?



Pubs were told to close at around 5pm this evening, they knew it was likely to kick off in one way or another.


----------



## skitr (Aug 10, 2011)

Channel 4 say 200 edl.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Aug 10, 2011)

No surer sign of the job the police have done in securing the streets for people, than the EDL now find the courage to go back out on them.


----------



## Fedayn (Aug 10, 2011)

TitanSound said:


> Police from Lancashire and Wales patrolling Oxford St and the surrounding areas at the mo.



Ironically it was revealed tonight that whilst Manchester was getting a bit of a pasting last night there were Greater Manchester police in London helping the Met.....


----------



## ddraig (Aug 10, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Well worth the watch. Not a trace of racism, just locals standing by to defend their area.


yeah, bless their englun hearts

cunts


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 10, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> Eltham going off atm, not entirely clear whether its rioters or the local vigilantes fighting police



Fucking horrible place. I don't think I've ever felt as uncomfortable and unwelcome anywhere else as I have in Eltham.

There was a video on the BBC earlier of some local "community protectors" seig heiling some black lads who were minding their own business on a passing bus.

Eltham, chock full of cunts.

<EDIT> That's the video above^^^^


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

No, apparently we are over reacting.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 10, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Ironically it was revealed tonight that whilst Manchester was getting a bit of a pasting last night there were Greater Manchester police in London helping the Met.....



Does anyone in Manchester vote Tory?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> No, apparently we are over reacting.



In what way?


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 10, 2011)

Police bottled by large group of white males in #Eltham in southeast London. Situation under control. NOT a riot.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> No, apparently we are over reacting.



Not again?

Last night people knee jerked themselves into a fit when they saw WWC people mobilizing to defend their area. Armed kurds or Seikhs did not warrant the same criticism so what is it with this histerical obsession?

If you look at the video above you will see a black man in the lower left hand corner (Look now).

There is an interview in that same video with Mr. _Manage and Control_, a Muppet from the EDL, who is not from that area and says so. The EDL parachuted in. Do you see the whole crowd chanting racist songs? No, you see a breakaway group. What does it prove?

Maybe the EDL, emboldened by last nights success, have shipped in more muppets tonite.

Why don't we wait and see before we judge. The way we would if it was the Kurds or anyone else confronting police.


----------



## rich! (Aug 10, 2011)

Fedayn said:


> Ironically it was revealed tonight that whilst Manchester was getting a bit of a pasting last night there were Greater Manchester police in London helping the Met.....



spent quite a lot of time outside the Butchers yesterday watching two sets of 3 GMPolice vans going round and round Stokie...


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

ddraig said:


> yeah, bless their englun hearts
> 
> cunts



leaving aside his politics for a moment, that jack england looks like a right wanker. you know the colonel out of rambo, with his annoying tics and swaying? exactly the same.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

rich! said:


> spent quite a lot of time outside the Butchers yesterday watching two sets of 3 GMPolice vans going round and round Stokie...


it'll be a wonder if they ever see the m25 again, let alone manchester. they're probably still going round the one way system now.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> No, apparently we are over reacting.



BBXC RADIO 5 LIVE tweet from 30 minutes ago from Eltham

"Scores of police vans, riot police now closing entry to #Eltham High Street - crowd dispersing. Policeman tells 5 live they are not EDL"


----------



## rich! (Aug 10, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> it'll be a wonder if they ever see the m25 again, let alone manchester. they're probably still going round the one way system now.



the third time they went past we decided they might be the same vans, so we noted the plates.

an hour later, they'd been past four times each set.

Mind you, saw Cleveland ones in Islington this evening.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> BBXC RADIO 5 LIVE tweet from 30 minutes ago from Eltham
> 
> "Scores of police vans, riot police now closing entry to #Eltham High Street - crowd dispersing. Policeman tells 5 live they are not EDL"



...locals were throwing bottles at police then? Why would they do that?...they are supposed to be working together with the police to protect their local area.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 10, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> BBXC RADIO 5 LIVE tweet from 30 minutes ago from Eltham
> 
> "Scores of police vans, riot police now closing entry to #Eltham High Street - crowd dispersing. Policeman tells 5 live they are not EDL"



What point are you trying to make?


----------



## dynamicbaddog (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> ...locals were throwing bottles at police then?


I think it was the EDL who have come from outside the area, last nights action by local residents appeared to be relatively peaceful


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

dynamicbaddog said:


> I think it was the EDL who have come from outside the area, last nights action by local residents appeared to be relatively peaceful



In which case the locals who want just to show they care about where they live should be chasing the EDL out of their area. Why is that not happening?


----------



## ddraig (Aug 10, 2011)

are you serious? no edl from eltham then?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 10, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> What point are you trying to make?



Not all WWC who mobilize are EDL or racist as some seem hell bent on having us think.


----------



## skitr (Aug 10, 2011)

@alextomo alex thomson 

Listen - - dunno if these blokes were EDL or not but they shouted EDL and attacked the police


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

This is disturbingly real all of a sudden.

The EDL are saying "none of you dare to come to our Eltham patch where we killed Stephen Lawrence" and the bored teens all saying "actually there's cops guarding the JD Sports, so lets fuck these dirty racist chav motherfuckers up instead".

Bye bye Eltham. It'll probably be an improvement. A lot of these young black kids most definitely want a race war, not enough to really matter, but there is a lot on anti-white sentiment. If they want to hook up with the EDL and have a bust-up, that is absolutely fine with me.

There must be an Olympic arena we can herd them all into, make sure the helicopters have good cameramen, and hey presto.

I should be the fucking prime minister.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Not all WWC who mobilize are EDL or racist as some seem hell bent on having us think.



No-one has said they are. Why are they not chasing the trouble makers away though?


----------



## belboid (Aug 10, 2011)

skitr said:


> Channel 4 say 200 edl.


well. LBC said 2000 last night, when there were, maybe, 20. So I'd take that report with a pinch of salt meself


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> <snip> I should be the fucking prime minister.


  Despite your many obvious personality disorders, If it's a choice between you and any of the last five or six ...


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> No-one has said they are. Why are they not chasing the trouble makers away though?


because self-defence is legal while threatening behaviour is not?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> The EDL are saying "none of you dare to come to our Eltham patch where we killed Stephen Lawrence" and the bored teens all saying "actually there's cops guarding the JD Sports, so lets fuck these dirty racist chav motherfuckers up instead".
> 
> Bye bye Eltham. It'll probably be an improvement. *A lot of these young black kids most definitely want a race war,* not enough to really



Just fuck off you antagonising little cretin. Put your wooden spoon to bed. You are much more offensive than any other group discussed lately...at least with them we know what we are dealing with. You and the way you operate is indicative of the worst around today, clearly educated, articulate etc but use that to shit stir, wind people up and wank in front of the mirror. You sicken me.


----------



## Garek (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> TA lot of these young black kids most definitely want a race war, not enough to really matter, but there is a lot on anti-white sentiment.



 oh really?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> I should be fucking the prime minister.


it's the only way you'd get anyone in power interested in the wank you spout.


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

dynamicbaddog said:


> I think it was the EDL who have come from outside the area, last nights action by local residents appeared to be relatively peaceful



Yeah this is new. Last night they would surely have fucked off the young Millwall mouths yelling EDL.

If, and of course IF, this isn't just a cute little white riot that is going nowhere, the cops and TV crews are fapping over it like it matters, then fine. It shows the EDL once again to be a bunch of ignorant tossers, and we get to be entertained by scrawly Essix accents shrieking about patriots, like they could name any one of the last three kings that had the sovereignty of England.

But in the meantime - resources are wasted on Eltham, other nice towns get fucked over.

Let's be careful out there.


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> it's the only way you'd get anyone in power interested in the wank you spout.



But you know as well as I do, you can't resist the salty taste of it. It's why you keep cumming back for more.

You love it you dirty little slut.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> But you know as well as I do, you can't resist the salty taste of it. It's why you keep cumming back for more.
> 
> You love it you dirty little slut.


out of curiosity, do you ever descend from your fantasy world?


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Just fuck off you antagonising little cretin. Put your wooden spoon to bed. You are much more offensive than any other group discussed lately...at least with them we know what we are dealing with.



Yeah. And like I keep telling you, you are an idiot. I have been telling you this for years. Please put me on ignore or something. It's just tedious to keep telling you the same thing over and over. Other people here are a bit more wise to how I put things. But you're like, whoosh! No point.


----------



## Sue (Aug 10, 2011)

pk, can you just fuck off please. I'm pretty sure no-one wants to hear this racist shit you're coming out with.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> Yeah. And like I keep telling you, you are an idiot. I have been telling you this for years. Please put me on ignore or something. It's just tedious to keep telling you the same thing over and over. Other people here are a bit more wise to how I put things. But you're like, whoosh! No point.



Keep dreaming and wanking. Shit stirring , dishonest prick.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> Please put me on ignore or something.


i think 8 out of 10 doctors would put you on something. something like a chemical cosh.


----------



## belboid (Aug 10, 2011)

go on, get down there pk, give them the benefit of your genius, far more than we do.


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> out of curiosity, do you ever descend from your fantasy world?



A lot more than you do. You didn't answer my question. It was a fair question, asked in remarkable good spirit too, considering.

What will you tell people in years to come when they ask "what did you do in the summer of 2011?"


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 10, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Not all WWC who mobilize are EDL or racist as some seem hell bent on having us think.



Who's said they are?

Those cunts in the Eltham vid are though. And from my own experiences of that fucking hole I can tell you that as a black bloke, I felt hugely uncomfortable there. A friend of ours used to live in a place nearby called Mottingham. Found ourselves in Eltham on a couple of occasions and it's an intimidating place. We didn't get any trouble but I felt that had I not been with a couple of lumps, that could've been different. It's not just in the pubs either, on the streets was the same.

A really fucking nasty vibe about the place.

Fuck Eltham and all the racist cunts that live there.


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> disengenerous



Love it. Keep 'em coming.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

belboid said:


> go on, get down there pk, give them the benefit of your genius, far more than we do.


yeh. it would be good for a laugh.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> A lot more than you do. You didn't answer my question. It was a fair question, asked in remarkable good spirit too, considering.
> 
> What will you tell people in years to come when they ask "what did you do in the summer of 2011?"


i did answer your question, you thick fuck.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> Love it. Keep 'em coming.



Enjoy sweetie...I'd rather spell things incorrectly than imagine being the bitter, miserable, sad, shit-stirring cretin that it must feel like to be you. Seriously, I hear Cameron likes to give hugs away, you clearly missed out on them too!


----------



## eoin_k (Aug 10, 2011)

Why does anyone acknowledge PK's posts.  The poor right wing, racist cretin has nothing better to do with his time than posting drivel on a bulletin board set up by a welsh Brixtonian who likes parties and protests.  The man clearly doesn't have a life.  Just leave him wither away in the empty void of his own pathetic existence.


----------



## IC3D (Aug 10, 2011)

Load of media hype in Eltham tonight it seems, unsurprising because of Millwall and Steven Lawrence I imagine the community feel quite proud of the way they pulled together despite the EDL trying to exploit them.


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

Sue said:


> pk, can you just fuck off please. I'm pretty sure no-one wants to hear this racist shit you're coming out with.



I'm sorry do you have any idea?

I'm not coming out with "racist" shit - the idea being that people can be judged by the colour of their skin is abhorrent to me.

It's the colour of their character I am more concerned about.

If you would like to discuss this, then I'm all ears. But I really thing unless you are prepared to go through the various connotations of the rap world, the consumerist ideals that sadly emerged from a positive DIY punk culture and isolate so many good things that could have happened, you're out of your depth my good lady.

Just pretend I'm autistic or crazy or racist, if it makes you feel better.

To me it still feels like a lot of the posh plastic bubble-wrap anarcho kids here never actually grew up with black kids, never had to stick up for them in shitty school fighting, or really had anything to do with black communities until they started renting a student flat in Brixton. I thought this board had matured beyond that.
Those people, and they know who they are, they can fuck off calling me racist for several reasons, most of them are fucking hilarious.

And Pickmans, don't deny the love we have between us. It was meant to be.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

You are positively 'ghetto' innit pk? You know all about it!


----------



## Sue (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> I'm sorry do you have any idea?
> 
> I'm not coming out with "racist" shit - the idea being that people can be judged by the colour of their skin is abhorrent to me.



*'The EDL are saying "none of you dare to come to our Eltham patch where we killed Stephen Lawrence"* and the bored teens all saying "actually there's cops guarding the JD Sports, so lets fuck these dirty racist chav motherfuckers up instead".

Bye bye Eltham. It'll probably be an improvement. *A lot of these young black kids most definitely want a race war*, not enough to really matter, but there is a lot on anti-white sentiment.'

And what was that on the other thread about the families of those involved not being born in Britain and therefore they should be deported? Not racist? You're doing a very good job of appearing so.


----------



## belboid (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> I'm not coming out with "racist" shit - the idea being that people can be judged by the colour of their skin is abhorrent to me.


Except you do it all the time.  On this thread, and plenty of others. You repeat the views of the EDL word for word, you echo precisely their vapid, thoughtless, mindless, childishly violent mindset, but are to stupid to see it, and too cowardly to act on them (one small mercy, i suppose)

You think your posts make you look hard and _4 real_, but you're just a fucking joke, spewing up drivel on thread after thread to cover for your own inadequacies and impotence.

Now, kindly fuck off and leave the grown ups to talk. Take a sock to the bedroom with you.


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

IC3D said:


> Load of media hype in Eltham tonight it seems, unsurprising because of Millwall and Steven Lawrence I imagine the community feel quite proud of the way they pulled together despite the EDL trying to exploit them.



Fair enough. I don't like Eltham, never have, but it's still a community.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 10, 2011)

Sue said:


> And what was that on the other thread about the families of those involved not being born in Britain and therefore they should be deported?



PK said that? 

Can you link to the post please?


----------



## Sue (Aug 10, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> PK said that?
> 
> Can you link to the post please?



Not sure how to link to it but #109 on the thread abot Greenwich evicting people:

'Also - and this will no doubt make the yogurt weavers shit a yurt - let's have a look at the immigration status of the people involved in the more serious incidents.
I would wager a fairly large percentage of people who must have known their kids were involved were born abroad.
Put them on a plane, one way ticket. All the benefits and freebies provided by the UK are revoked. Drive them to the airport, and sayonara.'


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 10, 2011)

The permalink to the post is on the time at the bottom of the post - right-click and you can copy it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> And Pickmans, don't deny the love we have between us. It was meant to be.






			
				pk said:
			
		

> Put it this way - I never felt anything apart from abject pity for you.
> 
> That has turned over the years into utter contempt.
> 
> Do it Picky. Do it and see how many people give a fuck.






			
				pk said:
			
		

> I won't expect an apology from Prickman, he doesn't have the spine.
> 
> And yes, I would sooner piss on ol' Picky's slab than claim he and I were anything approaching friends.
> 
> He's a fucking worm, always was, and you know it too.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> A lot of these young black kids most definitely want a race war


You've intercepted their Blackberry messages have you, Alf?  Why don't you write it all down somewhere?  Somewhere else, preferably.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

Lo Siento. said:


> but what was the difference between Sunday/the days after and any other normal days? I mean, there's also a logic to the Vancouver riots - they lost, people had been drinking, there's a violence endemic to that particular sport etc.



I'm not sure if there was a logic to it. Burning police cars because a hockey team lost seems pretty senseless; but it becomes even more senseless if [as happened with one rioter] you are a middle class athlete about to enter university on a full-ride scholarship - and then, when your photo is taken of you putting a gas soaked rag into a police car gas tank and lighting it is published, you lose it all.


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

Sue said:


> *'The EDL are saying "none of you dare to come to our Eltham patch where we killed Stephen Lawrence"* and the bored teens all saying "actually there's cops guarding the JD Sports, so lets fuck these dirty racist chav motherfuckers up instead".



I think that's a fair assessment of what could be a situation. Probably not helpful I know. Definitely not intended to stir up any more real life shit. But if the EDL claim any part of London as "their own" they'll be laughed out of town or beaten out of town, I care not which. That is my opinion and the point I was trying to make, which may or may not have been expressed in the most diligent manner, but this is my sandbox for crazy thoughts and you fuckers help to shape them. I'm not even convinced many of you are even human anymore, with all these automated internet response bots and software. Maybe I'm a fake prototype bulletin board droid. You'll never know.



> Bye bye Eltham. It'll probably be an improvement. *A lot of these young black kids most definitely want a race war*, not enough to really matter, but there is a lot on anti-white sentiment.'



Oh my dear, do you labour under the illusion that a lot of these poorly educated, disenfranchised black youth do not bear resentment toward white people in general? I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but they often do. Can you blame them?



> And what was that on the other thread about the families of those involved not being born in Britain and therefore they should be deported? Not racist? You're doing a very good job of appearing so.



If they were born in Sweden or France or Brazil I would say the same thing.

What, if anything at all, does race have to do with it? My point there addresses the legion of Portugese and Czech and Polish squatters, who are fucking it up for us who need our own squats. By assuming that by revoking citizenship to foreign nationals that somehow I am targeting black people - well that my dear is your own nasty little casual racism creeping in to the debate.

It's amazing how this board sometimes seems to stand still, life goes on and on, and here it still feels like chatting to a bunch of scared goths in 1993. I find it comforting. The innocence of the young idealist blended with the stale drunken know-it-all.
I guess I must be somewhere inbetween.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> You've intercepted their Blackberry messages have you, Alf? Why don't you write it all down somewhere? Somewhere else, preferably.


don't get him started. he'll type out his fevered fantasies of violence, like richard allen only 1000x worse.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 10, 2011)

Sue said:


> Not sure how to link to it but #109 on the thread abot Greenwich evicting people:
> 
> 'Also - and this will no doubt make the yogurt weavers shit a yurt - let's have a look at the immigration status of the people involved in the more serious incidents.
> I would wager a fairly large percentage of people who must have known their kids were involved were born abroad.
> Put them on a plane, one way ticket. All the benefits and freebies provided by the UK are revoked. Drive them to the airport, and sayonara.'





PK comes out with some dickish shit like this sometimes but he's playing to the gallery.

He's not a racist.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> My point there addresses the legion of Portugese and Czech and Polish squatters, who are fucking it up for us who need our own squats.


why do you need a squat?


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 10, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> don't get him started. he'll type out his fevered fantasies of violence, like richard allen only 1000x worse.


If it's on a blog, that suits me.  He can froth all he likes as long as it doesn't infect serious conversations.


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> You've intercepted their Blackberry messages have you, Alf? Why don't you write it all down somewhere? Somewhere else, preferably.



And let you and your black flag waving muppets sit back, do fuck-all, and say "see, I told you so!".

Not likely my old china. You can put me on ignore if you need to. The button is around here somewhere, fuck knows what they done with it.

Boards look great with the Xenforo uprgade by the way, really nice. Avatars for the win!!


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> If it's on a blog, that suits me. He can froth all he likes as long as it doesn't infect serious conversations.



What like what you're having? Come on then grandad, spit it out!


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Post up your proof that Black people want a race war or fuck off pk.


----------



## TruXta (Aug 10, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> don't get him started. he'll type out his fevered fantasies of violence, like richard allen only 1000x worse.



Too late.


----------



## Sue (Aug 10, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> PK comes out with some dickish shit like this sometimes but he's playing to the gallery.
> 
> He's not a racist.



Well he's certainly doing a fair impression... Anyway, fuck it. Life really is too short.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

TruXta said:


> Too late.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Post up your proof that Black people want a race war or fuck off pk.



One major problem with a race war: we wouldn't win.


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> why do you need a squat?



To meet up with you for lusty adventures in my pants, Picky. You're that sexy, I'd crack an Argos store room open to be with you.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> One major problem with a race war: we wouldn't win.


 Kinda lose, lose for folks like us eh?....and everyone else of course.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> A lot of these young black kids most definitely want a race war, not enough to really matter, but there is a lot on anti-white sentiment.



If that's true, than maybe Mation's right, and teens don't have fully formed frontal lobes or something; because to want a race war when you make up less than five percent of the population is beyond stupid - it's suicidal.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> To meet up with you for lusty adventures in my pants, Picky. You're that sexy, I'd crack an Argos store room open to be with you.


lusty adventures in your pants makes it sound like you'd come before you unveiled your trouser snake. hardly a recommendation. you'll have to cop on to someone else - can't be doing with useless little pricks like yourself.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 10, 2011)

Might I just say that anybody feeling that any posts are beyond the pale should report them using the appropriate button.


----------



## pk (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Post up your proof that Black people want a race war or fuck off pk.



A conversation I had. Some things I read. Stories I heard.

If you need proof that a lot of those youngers in those gangs think nothing of robbing rich looking young white folk then you're even more of an idiot than I already consider you to be.

I also accept that this is not the thread for this. This thread should be for updates, not speculating.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 10, 2011)

That's the most liberal riot act I've ever heard read, Fridge.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

I have been swearing more than usual. I admit. Report me people!


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

Spymaster said:


> Who's said they are?
> 
> Those cunts in the Eltham vid are though. And from my own experiences of that fucking hole I can tell you that as a black bloke, I felt hugely uncomfortable there. .



And you're not even all that black. More of a nut brown. Imagine how some of those really dark blacks would feel.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> This is disturbingly real all of a sudden.
> 
> The EDL are saying "none of you dare to come to our Eltham patch where we killed Stephen Lawrence" and the bored teens all saying "actually there's cops guarding the JD Sports, so lets fuck these dirty racist chav motherfuckers up instead".
> 
> ...



Put down the coke-spoon.


----------



## Sue (Aug 10, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> That's the most liberal riot act I've ever heard read, Fridge.


----------



## TruXta (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> A conversation I had. Some things I read. Stories I heard.
> 
> If you need proof that a lot of those youngers in those gangs think nothing of robbing rich looking young white folk then you're even more of an idiot than I already consider you to be.
> 
> I also accept that this is not the thread for this. This thread should be for updates, not speculating.



Funny then how so many victims of crime committed by black youth are... also black youth.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> A conversation I had. Some things I read. Stories I heard.


....nothing credible or substantial then?



> If you need proof that a lot of those youngers in those gangs think nothing of robbing rich looking young white folk then you're even more of an idiot than I already consider you to be.


 Keep calling me an idiot, I will keep calling you out for lying, shit stirring and being dishonest. _Gangs_ are robbing rich people = Black people want a race war? My maths is shit but your social analysis/experience is shitter!



> I also accept that this is not the thread for this. This thread should be for updates, not speculating.



Why the change of heart now...backed yourself into a corner, full hard on, but feeling dirty right?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

eoin_k said:


> Why does anyone acknowledge PK's posts. The poor right wing, racist cretin has nothing better to do with his time than posting drivel on a bulletin board set up by a welsh Brixtonian who likes parties and protests. The man clearly doesn't have a life. Just leave him wither away in the empty void of his own pathetic existence.



Oh come on; he's not all that bad. He's just a little confused when it comes to the mind of the Negro.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 10, 2011)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> And you're not even all that black. More of a nut brown. Imagine how some of those really dark blacks would feel.



He's more "tanned". They'll just think he's a north London Turk come to carve them up with his doner kebab knife.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 10, 2011)

Sue said:


>


You can almost hear Sgt Wilson as you read the post.


----------



## Corax (Aug 10, 2011)

Was it really like this on vb?  It seems to have got 100% worse over the last few days.  Does pastel blue affect some people's minds strangely or something?


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> Just pretend I'm autistic or crazy or racist, if it makes you feel better..



Can I add 'drunk' to that list?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 10, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> That's the most liberal riot act I've ever heard read, Fridge.


Don't you call me a liberal!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Don't you call me a liberal!


liberal


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 10, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Don't you call me a liberal!


Sorry Uncle Arthur.


----------



## manny-p (Aug 10, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Don't you call me a liberal!


A wishy washy one


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 10, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Sorry Uncle Arthur.


this seems to lead seamlessly onto something to do with your mother


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Kinda lose, lose for folks like us eh?....and everyone else of course.



The people who want a race war, if anybody does, are the white supremacists.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Corax said:


> Was it really like this on vb? It seems to have got 100% worse over the last few days. Does pastel blue affect some people's minds strangely or something?



I think so...I have become less polite, swearing more.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 10, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> this seems to lead seamlessly onto something to do with your mother


She'll be everso cross, Jonesy.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

pk said:


> A conversation I had. Some things I read. Stories I heard.
> 
> If you need proof that a lot of those youngers in those gangs think nothing of robbing rich looking young white folk then you're even more of an idiot than I already consider you to be.
> 
> I also accept that this is not the thread for this. This thread should be for updates, not speculating.



Robbing people isn't a race war.

And I bet that black robbers would rob richer black people as soon as white rich people. They want money, not the chance to make a political statement.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 10, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> don't get him started. he'll type out his fevered fantasies of violence, like richard allen only 1000x worse.



Wasn't Richard Allen writing up his own homo-erotic fantasies as a way to purge them from his mind?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Johnny Canuck3 said:


> The people who want a race war, if anybody does, are the white supremacists.



...and the shit stirring, pretenders who will only realise when it's too late.


----------



## Corax (Aug 10, 2011)

And the Jews.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Corax said:


> And the Jews.


Eh?


----------



## Corax (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Eh?


It's part of their plan for global domination.  Ask VP.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 10, 2011)

Corax said:


> And the Jews.



Of course we do, we're the chosen people after all, we're *obviously* going to win!


----------



## Corax (Aug 10, 2011)

See?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 10, 2011)

Corax said:


> It's part of their plan for global domination. Ask VP.



It's true. 

problem is, as a race we're absolutely shit at keeping secrets, so we keep on getting rumbled. You wouldn't *believe* how much trouble Rabbi Lefkowitz leaving that copy of the minutes of the Elders lying around caused us!


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

No idea if you guys are referring to what I have posted, if so, I'm baffled.


----------



## cybertect (Aug 10, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's true.
> 
> problem is, as a race we're absolutely shit at keeping secrets, so we keep on getting rumbled. You wouldn't *believe* how much trouble Rabbi Lefkowitz leaving that copy of the minutes of the Elders lying around caused us!


----------



## Corax (Aug 10, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> No idea if you guys are referring to what I have posted, if so, I'm baffled.


No, we skipped you, sorry. pk & JC re: Race war


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 10, 2011)

Corax said:


> No, we skipped you, sorry. pk & JC re: Race war


I have been informed, thank you. It makes sense now.


----------



## Johnny Canuck3 (Aug 10, 2011)

Are you sure about that? I thought Lefkowitz was an Internist who wrote a book about the proctology of the Elders of Zion.


----------



## IC3D (Aug 10, 2011)

Posting this in case anyone has missed the 'Jewish problem'


----------



## pk (Aug 11, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> No idea if you guys are referring to what I have posted, if so, I'm baffled.



Guys. Girls. This one just simply doesn't get the jokes. Everything is literal. Can you treat with kid gloves please? It's delicate.


----------



## pk (Aug 11, 2011)

IC3D said:


> Posting this in case anyone has missed the 'Jewish problem'




What. The. Fuck.

Now I really am confused/amused.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2011)

pk said:


> Guys. Girls. This one just simply doesn't get the jokes. Everything is literal. Can you treat with kid gloves please? It's delicate.


This 'one', 'it's', delicate? Come on Pk, dehumanise me a little more I am enjoying it and you are covering yourself with glory! ...I know what _they_ were on about now. The back up you are seeking here doesn't exist.


----------



## elbows (Aug 11, 2011)

pk said:


> Guys. Girls. This one just simply doesn't get the jokes. Everything is literal. Can you treat with kid gloves please? It's delicate.



Ooh ambassador fumblewit, with your vile putdowns you are really spoiling us.

Often when I read your ooze, my soul wants to riot. Congratulations.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 11, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Might I just say that anybody feeling that any posts are beyond the pale should report them using the appropriate button.


Apparently nobody is bothered much. Oh well.


----------



## ExtraRefined (Aug 11, 2011)

The EDL's vigilante group in Eltham apparently descended into a bunch of middle aged white chaps vs. the police

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ilantes-hurl-bottles-at-police-in-Eltham.html



> Riot police were hit with “missiles” including bottles as more than 1,000 officers battled with dozens of middle-aged men on the streets Eltham, south-east London.
> 
> Witnesses reported that many of the 200 men were chanting in support of the English Defence League, the controversial Right-wing group.
> 
> ...


----------



## avr328 (Aug 11, 2011)

Hello,

I live in the USA, in a Northeastern city.

I feel very bad for the people who have been harmed in England right now, I hope you straighten things out quickly.

We have had riots over the years in some of the poor sections of cities, Los Angeles, Detroit, and actually New York when there was a blackout.

The thing you should learn from this is that you cannot depend on the government to take care of you. All those surveillance cameras do nothing to make you safer. Within the space of two days, you are in some important respects back to the stone-age, with people scared to go out of their dwellings, worrying about how to fashion a weapon to defend themselves  out of the sports equipment in their house.

You've tried to outlaw all guns, and all knives, and who knows, maybe baseball bats and tire irons are next. But it has not made you one bit safer.

You seem to have lost all spirit of self sufficiency and community cohesion. Except for some of the recent immigrants who stand together and band together.

In most states here in the USA, you may purchase as many firearms as you like. High-capacity semi-automatic rifles. Silencers. Many people believe that self-defense is a human-right, not something that can be granted or taken by the government.    There are still certain matters that we trust ourselves to live responsibly as a free citizenry. Or rather many of us do. There is a large component of voters, mostly in big cities, who have fallen into the fantasy that disarming themselves will make them safe. So it is a constant battle to prevent our states and federal government from disarming the populace. And once disarmed, it is very very difficult to get that freedom back.

When you think about how your own government has left you helpless, and worse, is ready to prosecute you should you even think of hurting a thug who is attacking you, I would like to leave you with some quotes from one of our founders, Thomas Jefferson



> Of liberty I would say that, in the whole plenitude of its extent, it is unobstructed action according to our will. But rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others. I do not add "within the limits of the law" because law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the rights of the individual.



 And this quote, which I think applies to your own situation right now



> I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty, than those attending too small a degree of it.



I am allowed to carry a handgun if I so choose.
If there were a riot or breakdown of government order in my city, I will sleep better knowing that I have the weapons I need to defend my home and family.  And in fact have enough to arm my neighbors should it come to that.

Benjamin Franklin, another revered founder is said to have written this


> Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.


 
In this case, you should take a hard look at whether you have traded away your liberty and safety for empty promises from your increasingly overreaching government.


----------



## Greebo (Aug 11, 2011)

ExtraRefined said:


> The EDL's vigilante group in Eltham apparently descended into a bunch of middle aged white chaps vs. the policel


Well who on earth would've expected that to happen?


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> <snip>
> 
> In this case, you should take a hard look at whether you have traded away your liberty and safety for empty promises from your increasingly overreaching government.



Thank you for your concern, but everything in now under control - and without the use of guns even by the police, let alone the public.

The only deaths directly linked to the riots were caused by someone using a car as a weapon, if guns had been used it's a safe bet that many more lives would have been lost.

We're generally happy with our low gun-related crime & murder rate, so I can't see anything much changing here in respect of our gun laws, you're clearly happy with your high rate, which is just weird.

ETA: BTW have you been following our problems on Fox News by any chance?


----------



## cybertect (Aug 11, 2011)

Too right claphamboy.

If it came to it, I'd rather be caught in the middle of a riot conducted with bricks and baseball bats than a firefight with guns on both sides.


----------



## Garek (Aug 11, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Of course we do, we're the chosen people after all, we're *obviously* going to win!



Yes, though every now and again it would be nice if God chose someone else...


----------



## avr328 (Aug 11, 2011)

I don't think the crime rate has anything to do with the right to bear arms. England has always had a lower crime rate than the US, even when any
gentleman could purchase a pistol for his pocket. And violent crime in England has risen lately.

The crime rates in the US and UK have been converging, however. But non-criminals in the US are still free to defend themselves, or
not to, it's their choice.

It sounded like there really isn't anything to prevent the London riots from happening again, the thugs just got tired of terrorizing people. Until next time..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...rue-scale-of-violent-crime-rise-revealed.html

http://blogs.berkeley.edu/2010/06/16/a-crime-puzzle-violent-crime-declines-in-america/

I have been following the coverage from NYTimes, BBC, and Telegraph.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 11, 2011)

Telegraph is a respectable yet heavily right wing biased newspaper over here. Take it with a large pinch of salt.


----------



## Badgers (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> Hello,



Hello 



avr328 said:


> I live in the USA, in a Northeastern city.



Please stay there


----------



## ExtraRefined (Aug 11, 2011)

Berkeley is a hotbed of communist sedition, so we'd better be careful there too.


----------



## danny la rouge (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> You seem to have lost all spirit of self sufficiency and community cohesion.


"Lost" doesn't cover it, mate.  It was beaten out of us by the constant daily batter of Thatcherist ideals over three decades.  Deliberately.


----------



## ExtraRefined (Aug 11, 2011)

Oh shit, the internet's here







http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/pic...ing-and-looted-areas-of-the-city.html?image=2


----------



## Ms T (Aug 11, 2011)

ferrelhadley said:


> So in the end we did not need the army to quell the worst rioting in decades in London, nor did we need water canons, the suspension of PACE or any of the other measures being screamed for.
> 
> What it did take was a massive police presence and a bit of pre-emptive policing. We can still police this country with a largely fire arm free police force.
> 
> Oh and numbers do count. Cheers for the 20% cuts Dave, we wont notice a thing.



Dave's lapdog still insisting on the Today programme that the police cuts will go ahead, ffs.


----------



## Greebo (Aug 11, 2011)

Ms T said:


> Dave's lapdog still insisting on the Today programme that the police cuts will go ahead, ffs.


What a twat


----------



## bi0boy (Aug 11, 2011)

Urbans arguing for more police, whatever next?


----------



## Kizmet (Aug 11, 2011)

Urbans, police and pensioners against the yobs.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 11, 2011)

cybertect said:


> Too right claphamboy.
> 
> If it came to it, I'd rather be caught in the middle of a riot conducted with bricks and baseball bats than a firefight with guns on both sides.


fuck that, i've got my .22 airgun locked and loaded, inner city pressure come round here being rioting bad bwoys, i fucking pop a cap in it's ass (well, pellet more accurately)


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> Hello,
> 
> I live in the USA, in a Northeastern city.



Hello Avr,

You'll receive a hostile reception here as public ownership of firearms is not generally considered necessary or popular.

The United Kingdom probably has the strictest gun laws in the world. Even shotgun certification is highly controlled, firearms licensing more so, and fully automatic and handheld firearms are completely banned from private ownership under any circumstances. The result is that we have one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world, although some types have risen sharply over the last 10 years with some gun related offences more than doubling in frequency over that period. In 2000 there were 8 firearms homicides in England and Wales, in 2006 there were 58, in 2009, 39. That's still very low. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence,http://www.cjp.org.uk/publications/...rime-in-england-and-wales-2009-10-15-07-2010/)

The broader effects of the strict UK gun control is more debateable. Whilst our gun homicide rate is lower than Germany's (much lighter gun legislation there, with licensed handguns permitted, and even carried concealed in some cases) our non-gun related homicide rate per capita is almost double theirs. Some suggest that often being armed, Germans are less likely to become victims.(http://www.unodc.org/pdf/crime/seventh_survey/7sc.pdf).

Personally, whilst I've no desire whatsoever to arm the populace, I think our laws should be relaxed to allow private use of handguns for sporting purposes under controlled conditions. Others will say that we haven't had any rampage type murders with legally held firearms, of the types regularly seen elsewhere, since we banned them. We did however have a fella called Moat who last year shot three people and then himself with a shotgun, the year before a chap called Derrick Bird went radio in Cumbria and killed 12 people with legally held weapons, and if you _really_ want to go on a shoot-'em-up it's still reasonably easy to purchase illegal firearms.

You're assertion that guns are necessary for personal protection is rejected by most of the UK. I've lived in the U.S. (NYC/Dallas,1988-2001), still have family and friends there, and the vast majority of people that I know there do not own firearms, so not even all Americans think it's a good idea.

Texans don't count!


----------



## treelover (Aug 11, 2011)

http://madammiaow.blogspot.com/2011/08/looting-and-uk-riots-as-above-so-below.html'

Madame Miaow has a good blog piece and a song from Bermondsey Joyriding 'Society'


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 11, 2011)

ExtraRefined said:


> Berkeley is a hotbed of communist sedition, so we'd better be careful there too.



Well, it was 40 and 50 years  ago, but hey, obviously it's still contaminated, right?


----------



## quimcunx (Aug 11, 2011)

Wrong thread.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 11, 2011)

Sky News understands David Cameron has been in talks with Chinese government to share web-filtering technologies. #pmqs


----------



## avr328 (Aug 11, 2011)

The violent crime rate in London is more than twice that in New York City.

According to Wikipedia [1] there is assault with grievous bodily harm rate of 9.5 per 1,000 residents of London.

In 2008/09 there 70,962 assault with injury offences in London with a rate of 9.5 per 1,000 residents.[27] This was slightly higher than the total rate for England and Wales, which was 7.0 per 1,000 residents.

Contrast that with New York, where Aggravated Assault is just 3 per 1,000 residents, and all violent crime including rape is just 5.8 per 1,000.

Rape rate in New York is 10 per 100,000, while in London the rate is 42!! With another estimated 40% of rape crimes unreported [4]

You are substantially more likely to be beaten, raped, and assaulted in London than in New York.

Murder happens much much less frequently, so the chances of an innocent person suffering it are tiny in both countries (just a few per 100,000). Chances of dying in a car accident are substanitally higher than being murdered. But assault and rape are about a thousand times more like to happen to you in a given year , and they are way higher in London.

The murders tend to occur specifically inside of drug gangs , so it is very skewed to take the numbers and apply them to the chances of an innocent person being murdered.

I will keep my handgun, carry it, and hope to god I never have to use it.

You citizens of London should take a look at how you have become prisoners of street violence, and stop being so smug
about your superior and illusory safety.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_London#Assault_with_injury

[2] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_New_York_City

[3] http://www.met.police.uk/crimefigures/

[4] http://womensgrid.freecharity.org.uk/?p=1756



Spymaster said:


> Hello Avr,
> 
> You'll receive a hostile reception here as public ownership of firearms is not generally considered necessary or popular.
> 
> The United Kingdom probably has the strictest gun laws in the world. Even shotgun certification is highly controlled, firearms licensing more so, and fully automatic and handheld firearms are completely banned from private ownership under any circumstances. The result is that we have one of the lowest rates of gun crime in the world, although some types have risen sharply over the last 10 years with some gun related offences more than doubling in frequency over that period. In 2000 there were 8 firearms homicides in England and Wales, in 2006 there were 58, in 2009, 39. That's still very low. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence,http://www.cjp.org.uk/publications/...rime-in-england-and-wales-2009-10-15-07-2010/)


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2011)

> You citizens of London should take a look at how you have become prisoners of street violence, and stop being so smug
> about your superior and illusory safety.


  Erm, I think you will find we are in this situation, which I wouldn't call 'prisoners to street violence' because our government don't give a shit about what we have to deal with day to day. You will get no where around here trying to convince us all to push for gun ownership. I mean seriously, it hasn't helped you guys at all has it?


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 11, 2011)

Oh yes, can you imagine the drunk arseholes from the EDL running around with guns pretending to be Charles Bronson. That'd really help


----------



## Shandril19 (Aug 11, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> ETA: BTW have you been following our problems on Fox News by any chance?



Heh.  I haven't really posted here in years (darn work wanting me to actually work during the day), but that made me snort.

I'm consistently amazed by anyone who thinks more access to guns would have made the events of this week better overall....


----------



## TitanSound (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> You citizens of London should take a look at how you have become prisoners of street violence, and stop being so smug
> about your superior and illusory safety.



Yes. We all sit at home cowering in fear.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 11, 2011)

TitanSound said:


> Yes. We all sit at home cowering in fear.



We might if a bunch of drunken far-right dickheads with guns were on the loose too


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Aug 11, 2011)

TitanSound said:


> Yes. We all sit at home cowering in fear.



We sit at work cowering in fear too.   I'm so fearful I'm typing this instead of working.  True story.


----------



## Corax (Aug 11, 2011)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Apparently nobody is bothered much. Oh well.



I thought that was normally the case though.  Offensive and undeserved personal abuse gets reported more often than the kind of shite on this thread I would have thought?  Always had the impression that with stuff like this, people are happy to take care of it themselves without needing the banhammer.


----------



## cybertect (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> The violent crime rate in London is more than twice that in New York City.



I'm not sure New York City is the best example you could choose for your case. AFAIK, it has the toughest regulation of the private ownership of guns in the US. Indeed the reduction of crime in NYC from the extremes of the 1970s has coincided with the introduction of this approach (though undoubtedly other public policy changes and other general trends have contributed to the fall).

If you're right, presumably the crime stats for places like Houston, Las Vegas or Miami, which have more liberal firearms regimes should be even more favourable compared with London than those for NYC.

Fancy looking them up?


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 11, 2011)

I'm pretty sure there are _traffic intersections_ in Miami and LA with higher murder rates than the entire UK.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Aug 11, 2011)

Corax said:


> I thought that was normally the case though. Offensive and undeserved personal abuse gets reported more often than the kind of shite on this thread I would have thought? Always had the impression that with stuff like this, people are happy to take care of it themselves without needing the banhammer.


I tend to use my brain inbuilt ignore function for all that sort of stuff


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Aug 11, 2011)

on another note, not sure if anyone posted a link to this:
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/index/news_and_events/latest_news/tottenham_fund.htm
it's for money donation for victims of the riots (in tottenham obviously, and I'm wondering if there are any other such similar things being set up for other areas or with a more general focus (I'm specifically thinking about the families made homeless on those nights) as self censorship of what could possibly be construed as opportunistic advertising)

eta: is there maybe a thread for this already or should we make one for such links?


----------



## 8115 (Aug 11, 2011)

Special rioting Question Time tonight for anyone who can stomach it.  I wonder who they'll get on it.  My blood runs cold just thinking about it.  I feel really sick of this rioting and associated media coverage/ pontificating, like I've eaten a whole chocolate cake to myself.


----------



## treelover (Aug 11, 2011)

i'd like to donate to a national fund for the families, etc..


----------



## treelover (Aug 11, 2011)

re: the QT tonight is very important, a must view, i think it will give some indication of how the fallout will pan out, maybe they will have Owen jones On..


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 11, 2011)

8115 said:


> Special rioting Question Time tonight for anyone who can stomach it. I wonder who they'll get on it. My blood runs cold just thinking about it. I feel really sick of this rioting and associated media coverage/ pontificating, like I've eaten a whole chocolate cake to myself.


 I hopes you paid for that chocolate cake, mind


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 11, 2011)

krtek a houby said:


> I hopes you paid for that chocolate cake, mind


answer my question to you on the removal of benefits thread please?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2011)

treelover said:


> re: the QT tonight is very important, a must view, i think it will give some indication of how the fallout will pan out, maybe they will have Owen jones On..


bollocks will it. engage brain before posting - if you can. if you are going to have riots which have a number of people up in arms, then there's not better time to have it than in august. by the time parliament's properly back there'll be a number of other pressing issues before the commons and the immediate wankery may well have settled down a bit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> answer my question to you on the removal of benefits thread please?


yes, i think krtek a houby should have any benefits he receives stopped.


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 11, 2011)

treelover said:


> re: the QT tonight is very important, a must view, i think it will give some indication of how the fallout will pan out, maybe they will have Owen jones On..


if you wanted important, you should have watched the HoC session today to get a flavour, Disco Dave flailing around to lay the blame and the cause anywhere but him and Gorgeous George, apparently Clegg was there, Millibean was useless, Lammy and Abbott were surprisingly good but overall, it's surges of police into troubled neighbourhoods, cuts in police budgets, demonisation of poor people, alternating with understanding poor people, although that could be seen as making excuses, and there are no excuses for these animal vermin, i say get the bleeding army in, rubber bullets, tear gas!!!!!


----------



## avr328 (Aug 11, 2011)

cybertect said:


> I'm not sure New York City is the best example you could choose for your case. AFAIK, it has the toughest regulation of the private ownership of guns in the US. Indeed the reduction of crime in NYC from the extremes of the 1970s has coincided with the introduction of this approach (though undoubtedly other public policy changes and other general trends have contributed to the fall).
> 
> If you're right, presumably the crime stats for places like Houston, Las Vegas or Miami, which have more liberal firearms regimes should be even more favourable compared with London than those for NYC.
> 
> Fancy looking them up?



Let's take Miami [1]
                  Miami National 
Forcible Rape:     25.7   32.2 
Aggravated Assault: 926.9  336.5  

So if we add these violent crime rates (per 100,000), scale to per 1000, we get  9.3 per 1000. Pretty much same as London! hmm. However there are questions as to whether the London police have been grossly underreporting violent crime stats. 

The important thing is that we do not rob people of their freedom to choose to defend themselves. The crime statistics are roughly equal, except for the murder rate, but like I said that is 1/1000th of the assault rate, and thus contributes very little to the actual day to day quality of life. I choose to have the option to defend myself and my family. I think disarming the populace has been shown to have no effect on the actual crime rates that affect people in their normal lives, and has some terrible consequences, such as leaving people helpless if their government becomes tyranical, or if the police are not coming for you when there are 20 masked scum throwing a firebomb at your house with your children inside of it.

[1] http://www.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=tampa&s1=FL&c2=miami&s2=FL


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> if you wanted important, you should have watched the HoC session today to get a flavour, Disco Dave flailing around to lay the blame and the cause anywhere but him and Gorgeous George, apparently Clegg was there, Millibean was useless, Lammy and Abbott were surprisingly good but overall, it's surges of police into troubled neighbourhoods, cuts in police budgets, demonisation of poor people, alternating with understanding poor people, although that could be seen as making excuses, and there are no excuses for these animal vermin, i say get the bleeding army in, rubber bullets, tear gas!!!!!


yes, get the army in, rubber bullets, tear gas. clear those vile mps out of the chamber


----------



## marty21 (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> Let's take Miami [1]
> Miami National
> Forcible Rape: 25.7 32.2
> Aggravated Assault: 926.9 336.5
> ...



Are you seriously saying that America is safer than the UK?  tell me, how many murders are there in the US per year, and then tell me the UK murder rate.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2011)

marty21 said:


> Are you seriously saying that America is safer than the UK? tell me, how many murders are there in the US per year, and then tell me the UK murder rate.


about 24,000, and about 1,000.


----------



## krtek a houby (Aug 11, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> answer my question to you on the removal of benefits thread please?


Have to repeat, am spread a wee bit thin


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 11, 2011)

marty21 said:


> Are you seriously saying that America is safer than the UK? tell me, how many murders are there in the US per year, and then tell me the UK murder rate.


it's something like 50,000 to 1 or something.

apart from hackney where it's fifty fifty blud, ya get me?!


----------



## marty21 (Aug 11, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> it's something like 50,000 to 1 or something.
> 
> apart from hackney where it's fifty fifty blud, ya get me?!



I get you blud


----------



## Treacle Toes (Aug 11, 2011)

Miami = 77 murders in 2006.

http://miamifl.areaconnect.com/crime1.htm

Hackney = 4 from June 2010 - 2011

http://www.met.police.uk/crimefigures/datatable.php?borough=gd&period=year

Obviously not as much 'blud' as others are making out!


----------



## marty21 (Aug 11, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> about 24,000, and about 1,000.


 and correct me if I'm wrong, the population of the US is about 280m, UK is about 60m, which isn't 1/24


----------



## Corax (Aug 11, 2011)

QT line up:

"The panel will include John Prescott, Brian Paddick, Camila Batmanghelidjh, John Sentamu and Fraser Nelson."


----------



## avr328 (Aug 11, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> about 24,000, and about 1,000.



The murder rate is higher in the US, but it is still a very very unlikely event. As I said, the chances of dying in a car accident are higher.  And if you look, the murders are  NOT evenly distributed over society, but concentrated primarily in very dense and small areas of drug gangs and ghettos. Outside of the major urban cesspool areas, the murder rate is miniscule.

The murder rate is on the order of a few per 100,000 people. The assault rate is a thousand times higher, which is more like a 10 per thousand persons,  is what you usually think of when you think about safety; getting seriously beaten, perhaps maimed or crippled for life. There are pscychological scars as well from being attacked.  That rate is about the same in London and in the highest crime cities of the US, such as Miami. Assault rate in London is about triple of NYC.

DO you have NO critical thinking ability, the ability to analyze how  statistics  actually affect civil socirty, rather than run scared like a pigeon?

The point is that guns make basically no difference in day to day life, yet you force every honest person to disarm, to catch the 0.1% of the population who are scum, and who will generally get weapons regardless of the law.  London is no safer, in terms that actually matter day to day, than Miami. Can you manage to wrap your minds around that?  Do you have any statistics which significantly contradict that conclusion? Apparently you do not.

You basically have a model that people are hopeless scum who cannot be trusted.

We have the model that citizens are the power, not the government, and that we take responsibility for our lives, our self defense, and our freedom.  Freedom involves choice, and the possibility that some people will choose poorly. But the answer is not to take away every sharp stick, blade, or firearm. That leads to no improvement in your safety, plus total lack of defense and complete dependency on the state for your security.

But that seems to be what most of the people on this board are comfortable with.  George Orwell really knew the British soul when he wrote 1984.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> The murder rate is higher in the US, but it is still a very very unlikely event. As I said, the chances of dying in a car accident are higher. And if you look, the murders are NOT evenly distributed over society, but concentrated primarily in very dense and small areas of drug gangs and ghettos. Outside of the major urban cesspool areas, the murder rate is miniscule.
> 
> The murder rate is on the order of a few per 100,000 people. The assault rate is a thousand times higher, which is more like a 10 per thousand persons, is what you usually think of when you think about safety; getting seriously beaten, perhaps maimed or crippled for life. There are pscychological scars as well from being attacked. That rate is about the same in London and in the highest crime cities of the US, such as Miami. Assault rate in London is about triple of NYC.
> 
> ...



What I don't get is why your agueing that we should be armed, when the vast majority of people in the UK don't want to be.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Aug 11, 2011)

Oooh look a US gun nut, can we keep him?

I miss pbman


----------



## Maidmarian (Aug 11, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Oooh look a US gun nut, can we keep him?
> 
> I miss pbman


 
Prolly not ---- he's just about pulling the "sheeple" card. That sort never last.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 11, 2011)

It's been a while since we've had one isn't it?

I wonder how long till we get called sheeple. 

Edit: Beaten to it.


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> What I don't get is why your agueing that we should be armed, when the vast majority of people in the UK don't want to be.



So we could deal with irritating Yank tourists a little more effectively?


----------



## marty21 (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> The murder rate is higher in the US, but it is still a very very unlikely event. As I said, the chances of dying in a car accident are higher. And if you look, the murders are NOT evenly distributed over society, but concentrated primarily in very dense and small areas of drug gangs and ghettos. Outside of the major urban cesspool areas, the murder rate is miniscule.
> 
> The murder rate is on the order of a few per 100,000 people. The assault rate is a thousand times higher, which is more like a 10 per thousand persons, is what you usually think of when you think about safety; getting seriously beaten, perhaps maimed or crippled for life. There are pscychological scars as well from being attacked. That rate is about the same in London and in the highest crime cities of the US, such as Miami. Assault rate in London is about triple of NYC.
> 
> ...



given the choice, I'd rather be assaulted than murdered.


----------



## Greebo (Aug 11, 2011)

past caring said:


> So we could deal with irritating Yank tourists a little more effectively?


Supersoaker filled with sugarwater in August, shot at a irritating tourists, wait for wasps, job done.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> Outside of the major urban cesspool areas, the murder rate is miniscule.


pls substantiate your claim that most murders in the united states take place round urban sewage treatment plants.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 11, 2011)

marty21 said:


> given the choice, I'd rather be assaulted than murdered.


given the choice i'd rather be insulted than assaulted


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> The violent crime rate in London is more than twice that in New York City.
> 
> According to Wikipedia [1] there is assault with grievous bodily harm rate of 9.5 per 1,000 residents of London.
> 
> ...



I do adore the way you slipped so easily into smug superioity.

A shame then, that you post such a triumph of how not to make a comparison between the crime rates in two cities.

Allow me to give you some guidance. I assure you that it will be my pleasure and no trouble at all.

1) When attempting to compare any two items, objects or subjects, one must make sure that they are sufficiently alike. It does no good, for example, to compare an apple and a tomato. One should, of course, compare two apples, or at least two orchard fruits.

2) Similarly, when making comparisons with data, one should ensure that the compared data is gathered using as similar data-collection and collation systems as possible, and then factor a "handicapping" system to allow for deviation.

3) One also has to make sure that, if one is comparing data of criminal offences, that the offences being compared are closely matched. For example, do the criteria that constitute the offence of rape in New York City/The USA closely match those that constitute the offence in London/The UK?

May I cordially suggest you research these small points, *before* you stroke your weapon?


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## marty21 (Aug 11, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> given the choice i'd rather be insulted than assaulted


well if the choice included being insulted, I'd take the insults


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## Maidmarian (Aug 11, 2011)

Phwor !!! VP in didactic mode !!!

I need a lie down !


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 11, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> pls substantiate your claim that most murders in the united states take place round urban sewage treatment plants.



You're such an innocent. "Urban cesspool area" is shorthand for "area lived in by poor non-whites".

Or, in the case of Boston, East Boston.


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## wemakeyousoundb (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> Let's take Miami [1]
> <snip>*The important thing is that we do not rob people of their freedom to choose to defend themselves.* The crime statistics are roughly equal, except for the murder rate, but like I said that is 1/1000th of the assault rate, and thus contributes very little to the actual day to day quality of life. I choose to have the option to defend myself and my family. I think disarming the populace has been shown to have no effect on the actual crime rates that affect people in their normal lives, and has some terrible consequences, such as leaving people helpless if their government becomes tyranical, or if the police are not coming for you when there are 20 masked scum throwing a firebomb at your house with your children inside of it.
> 
> [1] http://www.areaconnect.com/crime/compare.htm?c1=tampa&s1=FL&c2=miami&s2=FL


the question is where do "they" (sorry but I'm technically an imigrant here) "not rob people of their freedom to choose to defend themselves" (to use your word)? 
If any idiot that decides to have a go at me because he doesn't like "what I say/my face/the fact I looked at the telly/refused to hand over my money and possessions" is likely to have a gun (because that is what the right to bear arms makes easy) I'm moving out of here.
And make no mistakes, I "like" guns, they are very.. ..penis extension like*.. *especialy the automag 44 (this showw how behinf the times I am)which I handled at y friend the illegal gun dealer back when I was sixteen (I could have shot that right there and then, it was hard to hold on).
instaed if an idot turns up for a fight I can decide to fight or flee or something else, f a gang surround me, well, I'll hand my shit over (in most cases) coz I ain't dumb and putting some hot lead into someone(s) possibly causing their death is not something I'd want to have to contemplate for the rest of my life TYVM
do go away
but please stay
you sound like fun*
*


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## wemakeyousoundb (Aug 11, 2011)

past caring said:


> So we could deal with irritating Yank tourists a little more effectively?


you have me pondering his point now


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## Bernie Gunther (Aug 11, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> I do adore the way you slipped so easily into smug superioity. <snip>



Smug superiority sort of goes with the territory. Without it, lecturing benighted "sheeple" like us would hardly be as self-enhancing


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## avr328 (Aug 11, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> I do adore the way you slipped so easily into smug superioity.
> 
> A shame then, that you post such a triumph of how not to make a comparison between the crime rates in two cities.
> 
> ...



I compared Agravated Assault and Grevious Bodily Harm in London with Aggravated Assault in the US.  The criterion are roughly the same.

Or do you have some reference that defines them substantially differently.

The issue is that your solution to a problem is to take away fundamental human right of self defense, when it is clear that your solution has both made no difference in the likelihood of being seriously assaulted and injured. To paraphrase Ben Franklin , you have given up liberty for the illusion of security, and you deserve neither.


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## cybertect (Aug 11, 2011)

I think VP has preempted some of this while I was preparing my post.



avr328 said:


> In 2008/09 there 70,962 assault with injury offences in London with a rate of 9.5 per 1,000 residents.[27] This was slightly higher than the total rate for England and Wales, which was 7.0 per 1,000 residents.
> 
> Contrast that with New York, where Aggravated Assault is just 3 per 1,000 residents, and all violent crime including rape is just 5.8 per 1,000.
> 
> ...





avr328 said:


> Let's take Miami
> 
> Miami National
> Forcible Rape: 25.7 32.2
> Aggravated Assault: 926.9 336.5



Well, I'd like to think we're comparing apples with apples instead of oranges.

In the particular instance of rape, in the UK, the official statistics are those of reported cases, not those that lead to a prosecution (let alone a successful one). I do not know if that is the case in the United States, though Wikipedia suggests that may not be the case





			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> Some types of rape are excluded from official reports altogether, (the FBI's definition, for example, excludes all rapes except forcible rapes of females), because a significant number of rapes go unreported even when they are included as reportable rapes, and also because a significant number of rapes reported to the police do not advance to prosecution.



With reference to your quoted figure of 40% unreported cases in the UK, according to the Wikipedia at least, in a statistical average over the past 5 years, about 60% of all rapes or sexual assaults in the United States are never reported to the authorities.

As VP has pointed out, there remains the open question of whether what is classed as 'forcible rape' described in the US stats quoted are comparable with the definition of rape in UK law.

Finally, on the point of rape statistics, I'm not sure how relevant it is to your position that the presence of hand guns in private ownership, since, in the UK at least, 87.5% of rapists are known to their victims - the crime usually occurs in the home of one of the parties. Random attacks by rapists unknown to the victim are relatively rare.

I'm consequently unclear whether you are suggesting that women should be defending themselves against rape by their husbands by threatening to shoot them with a gun. If a gun is available in the household and a rape is about to take place, which party is more likely to own and use it?


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## Bernie Gunther (Aug 11, 2011)

avr328 said:


> <snip> The issue is that your solution to a problem is to take away fundamental human right of self defense <snip>



I really don't get that "take away fundamental human right of self defense" thing. We have a right to self-defence in the UK.

What we don't have are large numbers of handguns and ammunition for them in circulation, which means both criminals and people defending themselves from same generally have to work a bit harder to hurt each other.

There's no question that we don't have a _*right*_ to defend ourselves though. That's just silly talk.


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## dylans (Aug 11, 2011)




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## elbows (Aug 11, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> There's no question that we don't have a _*right*_ to defend ourselves though. That's just silly talk.



Indeed. The UK has seen something of an evolution in weapons used on the street, but at the end of the day the UK still has different traditions of violence to the US. Violent use of limbs and objects, a more directly physical form of conflict.

Samurai swords seem to have gotten popular in my town at some point, judging by the number of people who get done for having them.

None of it makes much difference to me, since I freeze up completely in times of danger, so Id be equally useless with a sword, gun, my feeble fists or a pointed stick.


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## Bernie Gunther (Aug 11, 2011)

The practicalities of using a gun for self-defence in a representative set of plausible (for the UK) scenarios is another very interesting topic.

It's _arguably_ a bit better than a knife, in that it works at a range from which you can plausibly use it as a deterrent without it being grabbed (assuming that whatever situation justifies its use also allows you that much distance, which it may not in a significant number of all-too-plausible self-defence situations) but by the same token, the adrenaline shake associated with any situation dangerous enough to justify using it is also quite possibly going to cause you to shoot yourself or some random bystanders, even if you do put in enough hours practice that you can reliably hit man-sized targets at fairly close range when not shaking with adrenaline.

We've just seen how supposedly highly trained cops managed to shoot themselves/each other during an arrest of someone who wasn't even shooting back at them.

If the Metropolitan police firearms unit can manage to shoot themselves/each other, how do you think some drunk EDL dickhead is going to do when reacting to a perceived "muslamic raygun" threat?


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## elbows (Aug 11, 2011)

Yeah, as a nation we abuse alcohol way too much to even be thinking about guns.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 11, 2011)

elbows said:


> Yeah, as a nation we abuse alcohol way too much to even be thinking about guns.



Bloody hell...it would be carnage up and down the land in town centers at the weekends.

Mind you I suspect people may become a bit more polite if they knew they risked more then just a kicking.


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## Bernie Gunther (Aug 11, 2011)

Global Stoner said:


> Bloody hell...it would be carnage up and down the land in town centers at the weekends.
> 
> Mind you I suspect people may become a bit more polite if they knew they risked more then just a kicking.



Yep, that's a factor. I've described what you might call 'practical martial arts techniques for UK self-defence use' to more than one yank and been told 'If you did that in a fight here his buddy would pull out a gun and dust you' ...

I don't know how true that actually is, but I've definitely had that reaction more than once over there.

It isn't a clear cut situation, but on balance I think the UK policy of making guns and especially ammunition, hard to get hold of makes the overall probability of people being casually killed by armed dickheads somewhat lower rather than higher.


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## treelover (Aug 12, 2011)

Ill fares the land, to hastening ills a prey, when wealth accumulates and men decay." Oliver Goldsmith (1730-74).


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## avr328 (Aug 12, 2011)

First of all, they call the gun an "equalizer", because it factors out brute strength from the ability to defend onself. Is it a dangerous tool? Yes. But free citizens should be trusted with dangerous tools. According to your model of the world, you must dumb down the choices until everyone is safe.



> British Prime Minister David Cameron said on Thursday that he is considering a limit on social media use in an attempt to curtail the riots that have spread throughout England. Cameron told Parliament that it is the clear the rioters used social media sites such as Facebook and Twitter to mobilize themselves--and to spread disorder. You can watch Cameron's remarks in the video above. "Everyone watching these horrific actions will be stuck by how they were organized via social media," Cameron said. "Free flow of information can be used for good. But it can also be used for ill."



Do you not see the pattern in how your society is reacting? First guns are too dangerous for the population. Then knives. Then social media. Then you require constant public surveillance by camera and on the communications of citizens on telecom networks. What's next, thought crimes?

From over here in the US, it looks like you've gone more than half of the way to a world described in "1984".

The United States tipped this way after 9/11, with illegal wiretaps on phone lines. It will be difficult work to undo, but there are plenty of people trying. The reaction of so many people to go crying to the government for protection is the classic slippery slope. Once you've given up your rights, you do not have the tools to take them back.



> He continued: "We are working with the police, the intelligence services and industry to look at whether it would be right to stop people communicating via these websites and services when we know they are plotting violence, disorder and criminality." (In a statement posted on the 10 Downing Street website, the Cameron said, "When people are using social media for violence, we need to stop them.")


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## treelover (Aug 12, 2011)

We have a 'world politics site' for this sort of thing from the U.S...


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## goldenecitrone (Aug 12, 2011)

It's been interesting hearing about all this stuff overseas and trying to explain to bemused foreigners why London is burning. I just play them this. Can't wait to get back.


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## goldenecitrone (Aug 12, 2011)

But you've got to hand it to the Tories. 15 months in power and we're already back in the early eighties.  A few more years and we'll be back in the nineteenth century. Impressive stuff.


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## London_Calling (Aug 12, 2011)

From the Holy shit! department:


> At Camberwell Green magistrates, Nicholas Robinson, 23, an electrical engineering student with no previous convictions, was jailed for the maximum permitted *six months after pleading guilty to stealing bottles of water worth £3.50 from Lidl in Brixton*.


etc.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/11/uk-riots-courtrooms-country


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## Badgers (Aug 12, 2011)

> *Ashraf* Rossli, 20, was seen bleeding after being punched in the jaw less than a month after arriving in Britain. Hooded youths initially pretended to help him - then went through his rucksack, stealing his mobile phone and wallet in Barking



http://somethingniceforashraf.tumblr.com/

This link was set up for people who want to donate some money to him.


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## London_Calling (Aug 12, 2011)

I can't begin to describe how much I appreciate unexplained links.

etd:  post next above edited.


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## bi0boy (Aug 12, 2011)

Iran wants to send peacekeepers to London (if given UN approval of course).



> “The Ashura brigades of Basij forces are ready to be deployed to London as peacekeeping forces,” Brigadier General Mohammad-Reza Naqdi said on Thursday, Fars news agency reported.
> 
> Naqdi criticized the British authorities for their harsh crackdown of protesters and describing them as rioters and hooligans.
> 
> ...


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## gaijingirl (Aug 12, 2011)

Gaijinboy told me that after having their leave cancelled, police will not be reimbursed for any holidays etc they booked - which seems pretty shit to me, especially for their families - anyone else heard that?


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## bi0boy (Aug 12, 2011)

gaijingirl said:


> Gaijinboy told me that after having their leave cancelled, police will not be reimbursed for any holidays etc they booked - which seems pretty shit to me, especially for their families - anyone else heard that?



They should be using travel insurance for that. Some insurers specifically cover police and armed forces for cancellation of holidays when mandated to return to work.


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## elbows (Aug 12, 2011)

avr328 said:


> Do you not see the pattern in how your society is reacting? First guns are too dangerous for the population. Then knives. Then social media. Then you require constant public surveillance by camera and on the communications of citizens on telecom networks. What's next, thought crimes?
> 
> From over here in the US, it looks like you've gone more than half of the way to a world described in "1984".
> 
> The United States tipped this way after 9/11, with illegal wiretaps on phone lines. It will be difficult work to undo, but there are plenty of people trying. The reaction of so many people to go crying to the government for protection is the classic slippery slope. Once you've given up your rights, you do not have the tools to take them back.



Many in the UK are acutely aware of rights and freedom issues. Guns simply don't make it anywhere near the list of liberties that the masses are most interested in defending, and it will take more than a few riots to change our minds.

The paranoid strain of politics is not welcome here, we have our own varieties of this stuff anyway, and its a million miles away from Charlton Heston and his silly and inflammatory rants from back in the day.

This is not our history:


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## gaijingirl (Aug 12, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> They should be using travel insurance for that. Some insurers specifically cover police and armed forces for cancellation of holidays when mandated to return to work.



ah yes.. I didn't think of that.  I do feel badly for their families though - I can imagine how upset I'd be if my husband came home and told me the holiday was off!


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Aug 12, 2011)

.


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## editor (Aug 12, 2011)

*Edited thread title for accuracy


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## Ms T (Aug 12, 2011)

The guy who was attacked during the Ealing riot while trying to put out a fire in a bin has died.


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## TitanSound (Aug 12, 2011)

I have no idea what's going on but in the last 15 minutes there have been 10 riots vans heading up Holloway Road in pairs


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## Paulie Tandoori (Aug 12, 2011)

TitanSound said:


> I have no idea what's going on but in the last 15 minutes there have been 10 riots vans heading up Holloway Road in pairs


Apparently, there were six shots in North London. Thankfully, they all missed the target.

Police confirmed that they're still looking for Nicklas Bendtner....

Sorry, I'll get me coat.....


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## past caring (Aug 12, 2011)

avr328 said:


> First of all, they call the gun an "equalizer", because it factors out brute strength from the ability to defend onself. Is it a dangerous tool? Yes. *But free citizens should be trusted with dangerous tools.* According to your model of the world, you must dumb down the choices until everyone is safe.
> 
> Do you not see the pattern in how your society is reacting? First guns are too dangerous for the population. Then knives. Then social media. Then you require constant public surveillance by camera and on the communications of citizens on telecom networks. What's next, thought crimes?
> 
> ...



I wouldn't trust you with a blunt butter knife, you daft cunt.


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## Bernie Gunther (Aug 12, 2011)

bi0boy said:


> Iran wants to send peacekeepers to London (if given UN approval of course).



Basij are the nutters who they sent running through minefields to clear them in the Iran-Iraq war right?

A brigade or two of those chaps might be useful. Send 'em to Eltham to deal with the EDL ...


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## TitanSound (Aug 12, 2011)

Paulie Tandoori said:


> Apparently, there were six shots in North London. Thankfully, they all missed the target.
> 
> Police confirmed that they're still looking for Nicklas Bendtner....
> 
> Sorry, I'll get me coat.....


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## Voley (Aug 12, 2011)

past caring said:


> I wouldn't trust you with a blunt butter knife, you daft cunt.


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## avr328 (Aug 13, 2011)

past caring said:


> I wouldn't trust you with a blunt butter knife, you daft cunt.



Your own government in fact does not trust you or any other Londoner with anything more dangerous than a blunt butter knife.
You are forbidden from carrying even a sharp blade on your person in public.

So in fact you are talking about yourself there.

"Knife Crime" is such a totally absurd concept. What's next, cricket bat crime?

The rioters were bashing in people's heads with whatever was at hand, even though it's against the law to do so.
Maybe you should have taken a walk and explained to them to their faces that they were daft cunts? You could always use a blunt butter knife to defend yourself, I believe that is still legal in Britain.


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## Pickman's model (Aug 13, 2011)

avr328 said:


> Your own government in fact does not trust you or any other Londoner with anything more dangerous than a blunt butter knife.
> You are forbidden from carrying even a sharp blade on your person in public.
> 
> So in fact you are talking about yourself there.
> ...


i wouldn't trust you with anything sharper than a vodka jelly.


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## Bernie Gunther (Aug 13, 2011)

Thing is US gun nuts are so pompous that they have no idea when you're laughing at them. They know they're right and that you are just sheeple who need to be told, so they'll keep on telling you despite the reaction they get.

All that overblown windy rhetoric that sounded so great when Charlton Heston said it to some gun nut convention, somehow doesn't seem to be having the desired effect and they don't know why.

Sad fucks.


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## Corax (Aug 13, 2011)

avr328 said:


> The rioters were bashing in people's heads with whatever was at hand


I must have missed that bit.


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## avr328 (Aug 13, 2011)

Corax said:


> I must have missed that bit.



Oh my mistake, there were no injuries.


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## joustmaster (Aug 13, 2011)

It seemed the police were mostly out for a show yesterday. From the pub I watched riot vans charging about with lights on, and pulling up round the corner and doing nothing.


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## Corax (Aug 13, 2011)

Please explain how you go from this...


avr328 said:


> The rioters were bashing in people's heads with whatever was at hand



...to this sarcastic rejoinder:


avr328 said:


> Oh my mistake, there were no injuries.



It's quite a big leap isn't it.


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