# London 20th- anyone going?



## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2012)

going to sly myself onto a union coach I think, if all goes to plan

My spidey senses say far lower turn out than last march 26th.


its alla bit last minute.com


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## cesare (Oct 10, 2012)

Probably. There are feeder marches this year too.


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## klang (Oct 10, 2012)

yep.


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## Treacle Toes (Oct 10, 2012)

There is a week of #Globalnoise leading up to this.


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## zog (Oct 10, 2012)

yup


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## quimcunx (Oct 10, 2012)

Yep.   I was going to start this thread as although I've known it's coming I've not noticed much of a buzz about it compared to March 26th.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 10, 2012)

cesare said:


> Probably. There are feeder marches this year too.


 

there were a good few last time as well, although I only got as far as trafalgar square to see someone on the horse waving a placard then turned back cos the crowd ws so dense I'd have missed the return coach.

is millipede turning up this time?


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## Pickman's model (Oct 10, 2012)

i hope so, it's about time we had a labour leader lynching.


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## cesare (Oct 10, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> there were a good few last time as well, although I only got as far as trafalgar square to see someone on the horse waving a placard then turned back cos the crowd ws so dense I'd have missed the return coach.
> 
> is millipede turning up this time?


These are official ones with TUC stewards (last time the TUC disowned all feeder marches). So official and no hassle from OB, hopefully.

Don't know about EM, iirc he said something about going at the LPC?


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 10, 2012)

I'll be going along. I expect a lot more copper presence this time, anywhere central anyway.


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## where to (Oct 10, 2012)

EM said he'd be there, but suppose that could mean any of a few things.


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## Thora (Oct 10, 2012)

I am thinking of going but the coach leaves at 7am and the thought of getting myself and a 2 year old into the city centre at that time is a bit


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## Edie (Oct 10, 2012)

What is it dotty?


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 10, 2012)

http://afuturethatworks.org/


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## stethoscope (Oct 10, 2012)

Yep, will be there fwiw.


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## xes (Oct 10, 2012)

could well be up for this.


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## sptme (Oct 10, 2012)

Yep, I'll be there


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## Plumdaff (Oct 10, 2012)

I'll be there.


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## HST (Oct 11, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> going to sly myself onto a union coach I think, if all goes to plan
> 
> My spidey senses say far lower turn out than last march 26th.
> 
> ...


 
Nah. It will be massive but the BBC will say that numbers are down no matter what because that's what they've been told to say. Will be out leafleting for it in a few hours time. These things don't happen often in anyone's lifetime. Get down here.


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## scifisam (Oct 11, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> http://afuturethatworks.org/



What is the march about?


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## purenarcotic (Oct 11, 2012)

Really wanted to, but unfortunately it has clashed with something else I cannot miss.   Hope there are more to come, though.


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## Treacle Toes (Oct 11, 2012)

scifisam said:


> What is the march about?


It's a TUC march (organised by them I mean)



> The March For A Future That Works is expected to bring together many thousands of trades unionists, community groups, and concerned individuals. We’ll have seasoned activists, but also plenty who’re totally new to protest.


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 11, 2012)

Probably.


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## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 11, 2012)

hi Fozzie ! yeah i'm going as well - going to be taking photographs


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## QueenOfGoths (Oct 11, 2012)

Was intending too but apparently we are going to Winchester for the day/overnight so I can't.


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 11, 2012)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> hi Fozzie ! yeah i'm going as well - going to be taking photographs


 
I wil look out for you


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## cesare (Oct 11, 2012)

This is the South London feeder march assembly point for 20 October 10.30

http://www.streetmap.co.uk/map.srf?...&st=2&pc=SE1+6HZ&mapp=map.srf&searchp=ids.srf


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## barney_pig (Oct 11, 2012)

i will be working so will not be there


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## treelover (Oct 11, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> going to sly myself onto a union coach I think, if all goes to plan
> 
> My spidey senses say far lower turn out than last march 26th.
> 
> ...


 
It may have some bearing but the TUC Special Events Organiser who was responsible for the last one in March died quite suddenly, by all accounts he was very good at his job..


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## belboid (Oct 11, 2012)

I'll be there. The local Unite train is already full, which didnt happen until the very last minute last time, so thats good.

And thanks to the government for giving more n omre people a reason to turn up! Latest announcements on attacking Civil Servants T&C's should mean another few thousand of them turn up.


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## Brixton Hatter (Oct 11, 2012)

Yeah I'll be there.

But I'm fucked if I'm gonna stand around in Hyde Park and listen to the likes of Milipede bleat on about the Tories, in the full knowledge that Labour will continue most of the shit the Tories are doing/planning.


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## xes (Oct 11, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yeah I'll be there.
> 
> But I'm fucked if I'm gonna stand around in Hyde Park and listen to the likes of Milipede bleat on about the Tories, in the full knowledge that Labour will continue most of the shit the Tories are doing/planning.


Yeah, same here, to Hyde Park, then straight to the pub up t'road.


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## Onket (Oct 11, 2012)

I went in March last year, with the missus & daughter. We are moving house on the 19th though, so not very likely at all that we'll make this one. I have told my sister that she needs to go in my place.


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## tufty79 (Oct 11, 2012)

I'll be heading southwards


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## the button (Oct 11, 2012)

I'll be joining the South London feeder march, details here:

http://transpont.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/october-20th-anti-cuts-march-south.html

.... where there is a block* called by SolFed and supported by the Anarchist Federation:

http://libcom.org/forums/announceme...ical-workers-bloc-south-london-feeder-tuc-mar

* Not a black block, before anyone starts 

There is also action against businesses using workfare, assembling around Oxford Circus at 2.30, called by Boycott Workfare:

http://www.boycottworkfare.org/?p=1636


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## BigTom (Oct 11, 2012)

If anyone is going from around Birmingham, there are some free coach seats for unwaged / low paid people: http://birminghamagainstthecuts.wor...ats-available-for-october-20th-demonstration/

I can't make it cos it's supersonic festival but I hope it goes well.


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## Balbi (Oct 11, 2012)

Im in.


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## kittyP (Oct 11, 2012)

Due to on going MH problems I am uncertain about attending. Although I really want to. 
I would love to know what else I can do if I cannot march though.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 12, 2012)

treelover said:


> It may have some bearing but the TUC Special Events Organiser who was responsible for the last one in March died quite suddenly, by all accounts he was very good at his job..


Actually, he died before the last one, which was one of the biggest marches ever! But yes, he was very good at his job, and is sorely missed.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 12, 2012)

The details about the main march are here http://afuturethatworks.org/

There is also a march in Scotland - http://www.stuc.org.uk/20-oct


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## love detective (Oct 12, 2012)

the button said:


> .... where there is a block* called by SolFed and supported by the Anarchist Federation:
> 
> http://libcom.org/forums/announceme...ical-workers-bloc-south-london-feeder-tuc-mar


 



			
				solfed said:
			
		

> in support of direct action, self-organisation and solidarity towards a future without work, *or at least without work for bosses*


 
in support of a future without work for bosses!

they do far too much as it is - let labour take up the strain!


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## frogwoman (Oct 12, 2012)

me and dotty will probably be coming by coach. these things are normally hectic as fuck so can't promise i'll be able to meet up with anyone


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## krink (Oct 12, 2012)

Not going - I will be trudging aimlessly round my own city centre and then going for a drink at a gig on the evening. this way saves the 600 mile round-trip. have a great day though everyone and I want to see loads of pics and stories if it kicks off!!


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## nino_savatte (Oct 12, 2012)

I'm going. You just try and stop me!


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## belboid (Oct 12, 2012)

The RMT has booked a train from Sheffield (calling at Derby & Leicester) - £10 members, £20 non-members. PM for more details if interested


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 12, 2012)

Helpfully enough, they seem to have installed some sort of security system called CloudFlare on their site, which claims either I have or somebody on my network has malware so wants me to answer a CAPTCHA. I'm using a big public wifi network, pretty likely somebody else on it has had malware at some point  Then, after I enter the CAPTCHA, the "Request Access" button to submit it doesn't work 

So if anyone else can't get to the site, that will probably be why. Clearly I can't get in touch to tell them to turn this shit off.


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## dennisr (Oct 12, 2012)

yep, see you there


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## chilango (Oct 12, 2012)

Maybe, but probably not as I'll be looking after my daughter and don't really want to bring her.


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## dynamicbaddog (Oct 12, 2012)

yeah I'll be there -going up with a contingent from Goldsmiths


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 12, 2012)

I will be there with a small group of like minded people.


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 12, 2012)

I will be there with my union


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## articul8 (Oct 12, 2012)

will be there


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## Smokeandsteam (Oct 13, 2012)

I'm in too.


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## Hocus Eye. (Oct 13, 2012)

There is a TUC live app for the demonstration for those with smartphones. http://afuturethatworks.org/october-20-smartphone-app/


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## Urban-Guerrilla (Oct 13, 2012)

Will be there


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## smokedout (Oct 14, 2012)

think I'll be there now

just came out of a meeting where some bloke from a charity warned how important it is to remain peaceful, like the civil rights movements and the South African resistance to apartheid

so thought I'd pass it on

keep it peaceful folks

peaceful like the ANC


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 14, 2012)

smokedout said:


> keep it peaceful folks
> 
> peaceful like the ANC


And the civil rights movement.


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## treelover (Oct 14, 2012)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/a-future-that-works-march-join-1368333

Wow, the Daily Mirror is giving it its full backing and lots of publicity

and yes, I hope its peaceful, let the numbers speak for themselves...


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## DotCommunist (Oct 14, 2012)

Last one all the media wanted to focus on was a few stoved in bank windows, neatly making out a fucking huge march was violent when it was almost entirely peaceful. Standard procedure.


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## smokedout (Oct 14, 2012)

treelover said:


> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/a-future-that-works-march-join-1368333
> 
> Wow, the Daily Mirror is giving it its full backing and lots of publicity
> 
> and yes, I hope its peaceful, let the numbers speak for themselves...


 
quite, the more people who send a message to this government that no matter what the scum do we will do nothing more than passively march away from parliament to listen to speeches in hyde park the better

let's send a clear and determined message of consent


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## Thimble Queen (Oct 15, 2012)

ill be there x


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## TruXta (Oct 16, 2012)

I'll be there. Joining in with the south London feeder march.


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## marty21 (Oct 16, 2012)

I will be there - is there a North London feeder march? Bloomsbury Square like the last one?


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## sim667 (Oct 16, 2012)

I didnt even know about it til now.

Ironically I cant go because its the last day of my adult education course...


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## dynamicbaddog (Oct 16, 2012)

marty21 said:


> I will be there - is there a North London feeder march? Bloomsbury Square like the last one?


There's an education  bloc assembling  at 11am outside the ULU building on Malet Street to  form a feeder march


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## marty21 (Oct 16, 2012)

dynamicbaddog said:


> There's an education bloc assembling at 11am outside the ULU building on Malet Street to form a feeder march


 cheers


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 16, 2012)

Did some street-leafletting this morning with people I work with, response was quite good. (I.e about one in ten took a flyer, some people smiled, nobody told us to fuck off).


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## DotCommunist (Oct 16, 2012)

well, unison coach space confirmed so I'll be there. Hopefully I don't have totake light overground from the excell centre. Driverless trains make me itchy.


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## cesare (Oct 16, 2012)

Planned engineering works this weekend

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tfl/livetravelnews/realtime/track.aspx?offset=weekend


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## treelover (Oct 16, 2012)

does this mean you can only use buses at the weekend?


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## sojourner (Oct 16, 2012)

Yep - me and the fella are going from Wigan


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## cesare (Oct 16, 2012)

treelover said:


> does this mean you can only use buses at the weekend?


No, it means that some (not all) of the tube/DLR services are restricted.


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## xes (Oct 16, 2012)

shall we all meet in the elephants graveyard/pacemakers arms after? (Quebec Arms just round the corner from marble arch station called elephants graveyard as it's a gay pub which caters for the older gent) It always seems to be chock full of protesters after a march.


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 16, 2012)

treelover said:


> does this mean you can only use buses at the weekend?


 
It means you need to plan your journey:
http://journeyplanner.tfl.gov.uk/


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## Jon-of-arc (Oct 16, 2012)

Im going.


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## marty21 (Oct 16, 2012)

> All UNISON members and their families are asked to join the TUC March against Government cuts and attacks on the NHS this Saturday 20 October.
> We need to send a strong message to Ministers to deliver an economic policy to create jobs and growth, a society that benefits from world class public services and a commitment to a fairer future.
> 
> Saturday 20 October, 10am, Embankment, Central London - look for the UNISON banners & flags.
> ...


Just got this from Unison

10am start - might roll up at 11 or so, if it is big - people won't have set off yet


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

treelover said:


> http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/a-future-that-works-march-join-1368333
> 
> Wow, the Daily Mirror is giving it its full backing and lots of publicity
> 
> and yes, I hope its peaceful, let the numbers speak for themselves...


yes what's needed is definitely a completely passive ineffectual march from a to b without any action being taken what so ever which might upset or affect the establishment or the status quo... that'll speak to the upper class usurpers in power, nothing says class war and stop the dogmatic destruction of the welfare state like total inaction...

strikes fear in the hearts of the right wing... I mean that worked so well to stop the war didn't it, it really got the point about student fees accross, it sorted out the whole sale privatisation of the NHS didn't it...

co-opted descent and neutralise it... still I'm sure a lot of papers will be sold so that means progress eh comrades....

if you're going to do this protest then take over parliament and don't leave until they start storming the place and shooting... what the arab spring surely has taught anyone is if you accede to their requests to politely move along and congregate only in sanctioned areas then they will murder you one by one in your beds...

if you want change and want to effect change then sadly you need to stay put and not leave and be prepared to he attacked byt he forces of the state until the ground swell is such that it is no longer viable for those holding the reins of power to remain.

but the likelihood of anyone bothering to do this short of a few anti war campaigners is nil as people are too self centred and have work on Monday, besides it might rain...

they govern by our consent, or in this case because of our apathy...

enjoy your jaunty stroll across London, but please don't think it's some kind of statement other than you're capitulating with the status quo...


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## FridgeMagnet (Oct 16, 2012)

can you give us a lift Garf?


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> can you give us a lift Garf?


sure where you want to go?


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> its alla bit last minute.com


 
just for reference this gets on my tit's more than pretty much anything it's like the entire world hasn't quite understood that every time they say or use this phrase they are in fact advertising the company like some moronic parrots... 

yeah I'm well anti capitalist yeah we should protest against the powers that be anchovi in the OK sponsored by mcdonals and nike a cola ... 

fucking lifestylers...


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## cesare (Oct 16, 2012)

> The TUC strongly discourages feeder marches as it is unable to steward them, and they block roads that may be need for disabled and other access vital to the march. Nor will it stop its march to allow unofficial feeder marches to join. They will need to wait for the entire march to pass. But there is nothing to stop people making informal arrangements to meet around the form-up area and walk (on pavements as pedestrians) to the march - or meet elsewhere and travel together by public transport.


 
http://www.sor.org/news/tuc-releases-more-details-ahead-20-october

Probably don't want to be associated with other actions.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

cesare said:


> http://www.sor.org/news/tuc-releases-more-details-ahead-20-october
> 
> Probably don't want to be associated with other actions.


only sanctioned protest by consent of the guberment will be permitted comrades... none of this illegitimate protest due to disaffection that's not allowed...


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes what's needed is definitely a completely passive ineffectual march from a to b without any action being taken what so ever which might upset or affect the establishment or the status quo... that'll speak to the upper class usurpers in power, nothing says class war and stop the dogmatic destruction of the welfare state like total inaction...
> 
> strikes fear in the hearts of the right wing... I mean that worked so well to stop the war didn't it, it really got the point about student fees accross, it sorted out the whole sale privatisation of the NHS didn't it...
> 
> ...


 
LOL. Let's see what happens on the day, eh?


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## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> yes what's needed is definitely a completely passive ineffectual march from a to b without any action being taken what so ever which might upset or affect the establishment or the status quo... that'll speak to the upper class usurpers in power, nothing says class war and stop the dogmatic destruction of the welfare state like total inaction...
> 
> strikes fear in the hearts of the right wing... I mean that worked so well to stop the war didn't it, it really got the point about student fees accross, it sorted out the whole sale privatisation of the NHS didn't it...
> 
> ...


Do some of your bombs garf


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

Fozzie Bear said:


> LOL. Let's see what happens on the day, eh?


sure ... let's... though forgive me if I don't hold my breath that this will be the start of the second British revolution where we see cameron clegg blair and cos swinging from lampposts at marble arch...


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## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

Oh i do hope so, i know so many do!


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> sure ... let's... though forgive me if I don't hold my breath that this will be the start of the second British revolution where we see cameron clegg blair and cos swinging from lampposts at marble arch...


 
If I can't grandstand on the internet with my shouty rhetoric it's not my second British revolution.


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## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> sure ... let's... though forgive me if I don't hold my breath that this will be the start of the second British revolution where we see cameron clegg blair and cos swinging from lampposts at marble arch...


It will be, exactly like everyone claims it will.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Do some of your bombs garf


uhuh... thanks for your as usual eloquent input it's genuinely invaluable without it what would us nihilistic shits do... still I'm waiting for you to email mail me that approved list of political actions it's sanctioned I can take until I get that then I'm just going to be frittering away all that energy maybe in things which you aren't sanctioning...

when will you actually post up something of substance rather than your constant trolling and sniping... can you really only sneer and are incapable of stating what your position is.... 

We look to you dear leader, we look to you... 

as the chief Manarchist of urban where else can we go????


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> uhuh... thanks for your as usual eloquent input it's genuinely invaluable without it what would us nihilistic shits do... still I'm waiting for you to email mail me that approved list of political actions it's sanctioned I can take until I get that then I'm just going to be frittering away all that energy maybe in things which you aren't sanctioning...


 
I approve of you staying away from the march. Or if you come, staying away from me and the people I'm with.


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## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> uhuh... thanks for your as usual eloquent input it's genuinely invaluable without it what would us nihilistic shits do... still I'm waiting for you to email mail me that approved list of political actions it's sanctioned I can take until I get that then I'm just going to be frittering away all that energy maybe in things which you aren't sanctioning...
> 
> when will you actually post up something of substance rather than your constant trolling and sniping... can you really only sneer and are incapable of stating what your position is....
> 
> ...


What time is your illegal banner drop?


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## cesare (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> only sanctioned protest by consent of the guberment will be permitted comrades... none of this illegitimate protest due to disaffection that's not allowed...


Are you going to this or any of the other actions eg the DPAC one?


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## Louis MacNeice (Oct 16, 2012)

cesare said:


> Are you going to this or any of the other actions eg the DPAC one?


 
Garfield isn't going anywhere.

Louis MacNeice


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## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

Up his own arse maybe. But, been there, done that.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

Fozzie Bear said:


> If I can't grandstand on the internet with my shouty rhetoric it's not my second British revolution.


who's shouting... 

facts are facts.

a to b marches mean nothing and are co-opted state sponsored approved descent...

nothing more as the TUC govt stooges are once again proving... 

protest as we protest or not at all... be like us... only disapprove of what we disapprove of... your personal issues aren't relevant to us, you must adopt our issues... only our issues are the formal issues... etc etc etc...

comodification of protest to neutralise it's effectiveness because you know if 10,000 people sat inside the palace of westminster for 3 months you can bet there'd be changes made... instead you'll wander slowly round London, get to a fucking great park some kids will kick off and get arrested and then you'll all go down the pub like the merry english day out it's all been... and adventure nothing more... something to tell the grnad kids about...

what did you do before the death camps Granddad??... we wandered round in circles being fucking useless... nephew that's what we did...


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## Fozzie Bear (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> who's shouting...
> 
> facts are facts.
> 
> ...


 
Yes everyone here is a massive fan of the TUC (and the ability of a-b marches to prevent Death Camps).


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## Mr.Bishie (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> a to b marches mean nothing


 
We know.


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## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

garf said:
			
		

> what did you do before the death camps Granddad??... we wandered round in circles being fucking useless... nephew that's what we did...


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## cesare (Oct 16, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> We know.


You coming to the Workfare?


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## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

garf said:
			
		

> what did you do before the death camps Granddad??... we wandered round in circles being fucking useless... nephew that's what we did...


More anti-semitism from the philistine garf.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> What time is your illegal banner drop?


you need to tell me cheif manarchist I'm lost without you... seriously you're like the Bono of urban... tell us please click your fingers or something tell us...


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## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> you need to tell me cheif manarchist I'm lost without you... seriously you're like the Bono of urban... tell us please click your fingers or something tell us...


I _need_ to tell you when to do your authentic thing? I'm sure we'll hear about it soon enough. Won't we? maybe it'll be may 2015 when you vote lib-dem again.

I am like bono, thanks for noticing.


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## Mr.Bishie (Oct 16, 2012)

cesare said:


> You coming to the Workfare?


 
Due to my nemesis, L5, I won't be able to make it


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> More anti-semitism from the philistine garf.


really... more... it can only be more if there were some originally... tell me what a collection of tribes of a singular linguistic origin has to do with death camps please... unless you're being Judeophobic and can only equate Judaism with the death camps and are in some way trying to negate the other Semitic tribes in some exclusivity and racist manner...  in which case shame on you, bono, shame on you... 

still you did do that one about 'I will follow' got rid of the goose stepping verse 4 though didn't you...


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## cesare (Oct 16, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Due to my nemesis, L5, I won't be able to make it


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## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> really... more... it can only be more if there were some originally... tell me what a collection of tribes of a singular linguistic origin has to do with death camps please... unless you're being Judeophobic and can only equate Judaism with the death camps and are in some way trying to negate the other Semitic tribes in some exclusivity and racist manner... in which case shame on you, bono, shame on you...
> 
> still you did do that one about 'I will follow' got rid of the goose stepping verse 4 though didn't you...


I so lkivbht buled the flick nonse from the claiing then removed gthe didn't YOU


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## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

Hey garf, you know the philistines right, the ones you always claim are hebrews so to use the term is racist - guess who they hebrews had to fight. The philistines. Guess who david was. And the other one. Guess what they represented. An external enemy to hebrews.


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## ska invita (Oct 16, 2012)

cesare said:


> These are official ones with TUC stewards (last time the TUC disowned all feeder marches). So official and no hassle from OB, hopefully.


 


> Arranging to meet friends or colleagues
> 
> We are strongly discouraging and will not co-operate with feeder marches for a number of reasons.
> http://afuturethatworks.org/march-logistics/form-up-and-transport-tips/


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I _need_ to tell you when to do your authentic thing? I'm sure we'll hear about it soon enough. Won't we? maybe it'll be may 2015 when you vote lib-dem again.
> 
> I am like bono, thanks for noticing.


you need to tell me what politics is the approved politics otherwise I'll made some kind of error you'll not approve of and as we all know Paul, can I call you Paul, or would you prefer Mr Hewson?, we can't have you disapproving of the things we do here on the urbans... that way leads to your mocking and ridicule and derision.  We aren't allowed out own opinions only those which are sanctioned by you and your clique so please tell me bono what's a boy to do... 

tell me what to think oh masterful one... how can I avoid your ire.... tell me did I disappoint you?  leave a bad taste in your mouth? cos you act like you've never had love, and you want me to go without...


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> you need to tell me what politics is the approved politics otherwise I'll made some kind of error you'll not approve of and as we all know Paul, can I call you Paul, or would you prefer Mr Hewson?, we can't have you disapproving of the things we do here on the urbans... that way leads to your mocking and ridicule and derision. We aren't allowed out own opinions only those which are sanctioned by you and your clique so please tell me bono what's a boy to do...
> 
> tell me what to think oh masterful one... how can I avoid your ire.... tell me did I disappoint you? leave a bad taste in your mouth? cos you act like you've never had love, and you want me to go without...


You can do what you want. It sounds great.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Hey garf, you know the philistines right, the ones you always claim are hebrews so to use the term is racist - guess who they hebrews had to fight. The philistines. Guess who david was. And the other one. Guess what they represented. An external enemy to hebrews.


who claimed the hebrews were philistines now?  Bono, your Catholic upbringing has affected you're powers of recollection... still you can't believe the news today eh...


----------



## cesare (Oct 16, 2012)

TUC innit, ska.  *shrug*


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> who claimed the hebrews were philistines now? Bono, your Catholic upbringing has affected you're powers of recollection... still you can't believe the news today eh...


You


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> You can do what you want. It sounds great.


what does you need to tell us...

this is some weird catch 22 here, do as you say = badness don't do as you say = badness, do what we want = badness...

have you ever considered that your a bit of a negative person?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> You


sure... if you're saying it then it must be right you always are after all...


----------



## el-ahrairah (Oct 16, 2012)

i wish i was a mod right now.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> i wish i was a mod right now.


go to itunes buy some style council tracks...


----------



## editor (Oct 16, 2012)

I'll be going and I don't give a fuck what Garf thinks about that.


----------



## rekil (Oct 16, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> i wish i was a mod right now.


This is what the ignore function is for.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

editor said:


> I'll be going and I don't give a fuck what Garf thinks about that.


BOOM! Remember, some people are serious!


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 16, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> death camps


 


GarfieldLeChat said:


> have you ever considered that your a bit of a negative person?


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

editor said:


> I'll be going and I don't give a fuck what Garf thinks about that.


when have you ever tbf...    and nor should you... 

I hope you enjoy it.... 

I wish it'd make a difference...

remember to buy a paper...


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 16, 2012)

Garf has been an ickette for years.


----------



## the button (Oct 16, 2012)

cesare said:


> TUC innit, ska. *shrug*


You can understand why the TUC have recently put that thing on their website re: feeder marches when you see the list of dangerous extremist organisations that are supporting the South London feeder:

London South Bank University UNISON
London South Bank University UCU
Lambeth & Southwark DWP PCS
Lambeth Unison
Lambeth NUT
Lambeth Save Our Services
Lambeth College UCU
Lambeth Defend Council Housing campaign
Lambeth Keep Our NHS Public campaign
Lambeth Pan-Disability Forum
Lambeth and Southwark Labour Representation Committee
Lambeth Green Party
Southwark Trades Union Council
Southwark UNISON
Southwark NUT
Southwark Save Our Services campaign
Southwark Save Adult Learning campaign
Southwark Disabled People Against Cuts
Southwark Woodcraft Folk 
Southwark Pensioners Action Group
Southwark Defend Council Housing campaign
Southwark Group of Tenants Organisations
Southwark Green Party
Wandsworth Against Cuts
Camberwell & Peckham Constituency Labour Party
Bermondsey & Old Southwark Constituency Labour Party
Dulwich & West Norwood CLP
Black Activists Rising Against Cuts
Fuel Poverty Action Group
Indo-American Refugee and Migrant Organisation
Social Work Action Network London


----------



## cesare (Oct 16, 2012)




----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Garf has been an ickette for years.


a what now? 

is that you're funny spelling of dickhead?


----------



## Fedayn (Oct 16, 2012)

No, well not London anyways. If I go to a demo it'll be Glasgow and only then if I don't get a ticket for the St Mirren v Celtic game. Spend an afternoon wandering round Glasgow then listen to STUC hacks extol the virtues of listening to STUC hacks or watch the football.......?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Oct 16, 2012)

copliker said:


> This is what the ignore function is for.


 
you can't ignore people who limit who can view their profile.

this is only done, IME, by the very most annoying people.


----------



## Fedayn (Oct 16, 2012)

the button said:


> Camberwell & Peckham Constituency Labour Party
> Bermondsey & Old Southwark Constituency Labour Party
> Dulwich & West Norwood CLP


 
You have people to kick too.....


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 16, 2012)

el-ahrairah said:


> you can't ignore people who limit who can view their profile.
> 
> this is only done, IME, by the very most annoying people.


or those unhappy with the creeping facebook data aggregation and integration the site has... you know those data conscious people...


----------



## the button (Oct 16, 2012)

Fedayn said:


> You have people to kick too.....


Still need a Miliband one for the




> When I say "Cameron," you say "Scum."
> When I say "Nick Clegg," you say, "Who?"


 

chant. Best effort so far



> When I say Miliband, you say, "Scab."


 
Any suggestions appreciated.


----------



## weepiper (Oct 16, 2012)

'When I say Miliband, you say 'more cheese, Gromit?'


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 16, 2012)

'Ed Ed, did ya dad beat ya when you wet the bed?'


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 16, 2012)

Whats garfs problem with this march? 

Whats he doing that is going to be so much more effective?


----------



## treelover (Oct 17, 2012)

can we keep this for info..


''We’ve just heard that the Jubilee and Metropolitan lines will no longer close for maintenance work on Saturday. That means people using the Wembley coach park can now use Wembley Park station. This is both nearer the coach park and a quicker tube journey. It also makes it easier to get back to coaches from Hyde Park.
We  might not be able to update all the travel info on this site until tomorrow, but wanted to get this newsflash out.''

http://afuturethatworks.org/


btw, important update


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 17, 2012)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Whats garfs problem with this march?
> 
> Whats he doing that is going to be so much more effective?


it's a march. it achieves nothing, other than a slight health benefit. if it was an occupation then it'd be different. 

nothing I'm willing to post on urban.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 17, 2012)

Kidnap the italian prime minister?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 17, 2012)

occupation involving jazz hands and ritual clowning?


----------



## SpineyNorman (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm going because I'm confident that the TUC is committed to achieving full communism and that this march is how they'll do it. Garf is just a petty bourgeois deviationist.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 17, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> occupation involving jazz hands and ritual clowning?


with porcupine suits ffs... don't forget the porcupine suits.. or the big top in a war zone...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 17, 2012)

SpineyNorman said:


> I'm going because I'm confident that the TUC is committed to achieving full communism and that this march is how they'll do it. Garf is just a petty bourgeois deviationist.


I'll have you know I'm not petit bourgeouis I'm fookin grosse bourgeouis....


----------



## xes (Oct 17, 2012)

that so sounds like a kind of food.

I'm picturing some kind of strogonoff


----------



## cesare (Oct 17, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I'll have you know I'm not petit bourgeouis I'm fookin grosse bourgeouis....


Don't forget that Marx said the revolution would start with the petit bourgeois, comrade *raises fist*


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 17, 2012)

cesare said:


> Don't forget that Marx said the revolution would start with the petit bourgeois, comrade *raises fist*


you've met me I'm 16+ stone petit isn't really apt...


----------



## cesare (Oct 17, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> you've met me I'm 16+ stone petit isn't really apt...


"svelte"


----------



## Firky (Oct 17, 2012)

the button said:


> Southwark Woodcraft Folk


 
Woodcraft folk make me projectile vomit.

They're the kind of people who hang United Colours of Benetton posters on their fucking walls.


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 17, 2012)

firky said:


> Woodcraft folk make me projectile vomit.


 
When I went in the 90s it was all about smoking skunk and looking for mushrooms.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 17, 2012)

firky said:


> Woodcraft folk make me projectile vomit.
> 
> They're the kind of people who hang United Colours of Benetton posters on their fucking walls.


that's fucking hideous.


----------



## the button (Oct 17, 2012)

Racist.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 17, 2012)

I'm not racist but I don't need a crass corporate poster showing somebodys tits to show the world how non racist I am.


----------



## Firky (Oct 17, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> I'm not racist but I don't need a crass corporate poster showing somebodys tits to show the world how non racist I am.


 
It's like when people say, in a proud sort of way, that they have never been in trouble with the law.


----------



## cesare (Oct 17, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> I'm not racist but I don't need a crass corporate poster showing somebodys tits to show the world how non racist I am.


It's the tongue in cheek standard response to criticism of Benetton posters


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 17, 2012)

cesare said:


> "svelte"


I've always equated svelte with velour... dunno why...


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 17, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> I'm not racist but I don't need a crass corporate poster showing somebodys tits to show the world how non racist I am.


why do you need a poster showing someones tit's by that reasoning then?

is it cos you like tits??


----------



## cesare (Oct 17, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I've always equated svelte with velour... dunno why...


It sounds as if it should be, I know what you mean. Or cat's fur.


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 17, 2012)

cesare said:


> It sounds as if it should be, I know what you mean. Or cat's fur.


I blame dallas i'm sure that's the reason in the darkest recesses of my mind... the original not that remake they've start putting out now... (uhuh a reboot of fucking dallas jesus it's like hells arsehole has not shame...)


----------



## cesare (Oct 17, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> I blame dallas i'm sure that's the reason in the darkest recesses of my mind... the original not that remake they've start putting out now... (uhuh a reboot of fucking dallas jesus it's like hells arsehole has not shame...)


Gawd, they haven't dusted off Victoria Principal have they


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 17, 2012)

firky said:


> It's like when people say, in a proud sort of way, that they have never been in trouble with the law.


 
Or Jimmy Saville saying he doesn't want to get a computer because people will think he's a paedo.


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 17, 2012)

I would go, but can't make it this time.


----------



## Das Uberdog (Oct 17, 2012)

the button said:


> Still need a Miliband one for the
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
my friend made a good one at a Manchester TUC march a few years ago...

'There's only oooone, David Cameron -
Only oooone, David Cameron...
With a packet of sweets, and a cheeky smile,
David Cameron is a paedophile.'

Or there was a call [C] and response [R] one...

[C] Cameron fucking shit-head scum! Burn 'em
[R] Burn 'em!
[C] BURN 'EM!!
[R] BURN 'EM!!!!


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 17, 2012)

cesare said:


> Gawd, they haven't dusted off Victoria Principal have they


not quite but nearly...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas_(2012_TV_series)#Cast_and_characters


----------



## TopCat (Oct 17, 2012)

I think I will sit this one out.


----------



## The Black Hand (Oct 17, 2012)

TopCat said:


> I think I will sit this one out.


 poor TC, you fear temptation may get the better of you...
Anyway folks, we've got the biggest bus I've ever hired coming down to show you lot how to do things None of this day trip nonsense either, we're on our summer holidays, or rather long weekend holidays... C U all soon. xx


----------



## cesare (Oct 18, 2012)

> TUC issues top tips for marchers ahead of Saturday's march and rally in London


http://www.tuc.org.uk/the_tuc/tuc-21545-f0.cfm?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


----------



## cesare (Oct 18, 2012)

Green and Black cross info (including downloadable bust card) http://greenandblackcross.org/legal


----------



## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 18, 2012)

cesare said:


> Green and Black cross info (including downloadable bust card) http://greenandblackcross.org/legal


mmmm chocolate bust cards...


----------



## sunny jim (Oct 18, 2012)

There's an Uncut bloc/feeder march meeting at St Pauls 11am, that could be good....

https://www.facebook.com/events/183604791776834/


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 18, 2012)

It seems that lots of trains booked up by the unions to take people to London on Saturday may not run because the train drivers are on strike


----------



## The39thStep (Oct 18, 2012)

is it on TV?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 18, 2012)

The39thStep said:


> is it on TV?


 

something something will not be televised

bbc news 24 will be covering, complete with sinister music


----------



## love detective (Oct 18, 2012)

SpookyFrank said:


> It seems that lots of trains booked up by the unions to take people to London on Saturday may not run because the train drivers are on strike


 
what strike is happening on saturday?


----------



## cesare (Oct 18, 2012)

Google and twitter leave me none the wiser about this alleged strike.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 18, 2012)

cesare said:


> Google and twitter leave me none the wiser about this alleged strike.


 
It's not a strike, something to do with a settlement from a previous dispute but I'm struggling to find any details. It seems to be trains from Liverpool, Manchester and Lancaster that are affected, possibly further afield as well. Last I heard the unions were still trying to resolve the whole clusterfuck but if you're expecting to take a union-organised train from that part of the world I suggest you check with whoever is organising your transport.

I'm going down on the bus myself.


----------



## treelover (Oct 18, 2012)

http://www.mirror.co.uk/all-about/march for the future

major spread in The Mirror


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 18, 2012)

It's a bit late though. This has got minimal publicity compared to last year's. I've been telling people about it but I've not met a single person who had heard anything, so far.


----------



## ohmyliver (Oct 18, 2012)

seconded, it's had almost no publicity which is a bit of a waste.  I shall be going though.


----------



## chilango (Oct 19, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's a bit late though. This has got minimal publicity compared to last year's. I've been telling people about it but I've not met a single person who had heard anything, so far.



Nowt on the high street. No posters, stickers, stalls on Saturday mornings. Nothing.

...but then that's par for the course these days.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 19, 2012)

chilango said:


> Nowt on the high street. No posters, stickers, stalls on Saturday mornings. Nothing.
> 
> ...but then that's par for the course these days.


 
Various groups have been leafleting outside both tube stations on my route into work for weeks??


----------



## chilango (Oct 19, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> Various groups have been leafleting outside both tube stations on my route into work for weeks??



London?

Not seen anything here in Reading.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 19, 2012)

Yes, don't get me wrong I think less effort seems to have gone on this, but I've seen lots of advertising


----------



## articul8 (Oct 19, 2012)

any urbanite meet up planned?


----------



## xes (Oct 19, 2012)

I suggested an after thingy, instead of listening to speakers in the park, head to a pub near to Marble Arch station. But nobody seemed interested. (Quebec Arms is the closest I can think of) That's where I'll be anyway


----------



## cesare (Oct 19, 2012)

xes said:


> I suggested an after thingy, instead of listening to speakers in the park, head to a pub near to Marble Arch station. But nobody seemed interested. (Quebec Arms is the closest I can think of) That's where I'll be anyway


 
Proves you don't read the drag thread  The last suggestion was the pub at St C's Place after Workfare on Oxford St.


----------



## belboid (Oct 19, 2012)

http://afuturethatworks.org/urgent-cancellation-of-nut-trains-to-london/

Bunch of trains from Liverpool cancelled. See above link for alt arrangements


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:
			
		

> Various groups have been leafleting outside both tube stations on my route into work for weeks??



I thought you lived in the north? Lol


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2012)

I'm only going if garf is taking his walkie talkies again.


----------



## yield (Oct 19, 2012)

I'll be there tomorrow.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> I thought you lived in the north? Lol


My longhorn is now a cockney wanker once more.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 19, 2012)

We've got to be on a coach at 6 and it's gonna be hard enough for me to meet dotty let alone anyone else ... will say hi to anyone I come across though x


----------



## TruXta (Oct 19, 2012)

Do I need to buy a black hoodie for this?


----------



## cesare (Oct 19, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Do I need to buy a black hoodie for this?


Black hoodies an optional extra


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 19, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> My longhorn is now a cockney wanker once more.


 
I'm not yours


----------



## cesare (Oct 19, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> I'm not yours


 

You're ours again now. Ours.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 19, 2012)

> *Video: Police Federation message of solidarity*




http://afuturethatworks.org/video-police-federation-message-of-solidarity-for-october-20/


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2012)

fuck  da police etc


----------



## xes (Oct 19, 2012)

frogwoman said:


> We've got to be on a coach at 6 and it's gonna be hard enough for me to meet dotty let alone anyone else ... will say hi to anyone I come across though x


Dotty might still have my number, gis a bell if you like at some point


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2012)

Back in the day there was usually a pre demo meet up point. I guess that still happens but such is the clique mentality nowadays that it's probably organised off the boards.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2012)

I have cliquishly planned to hook up with frogz at embankment and then rain fire pon babylon. Or march to hyde park.One of the two.


----------



## cesare (Oct 19, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Back in the day there was usually a pre demo meet up point. I guess that still happens but such is the clique mentality nowadays that it's probably organised off the boards.


The tube's a bit broken over the weekend, and people coming in from all over. So people are just posting what feeder march they're joining (with details of where and when) and any other action. And phone numbers if wanted by PM. Nowt cliquish about it, just practical.


----------



## cesare (Oct 19, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


>



I wonder if Neil from FIT has watched the video  No photos then, Neil? As a gesture of solidarity, like?


----------



## IC3D (Oct 19, 2012)

Anybody going to the IWW after do? I'll probably be there, excitingly.


----------



## cantsin (Oct 19, 2012)

HST said:


> Nah. It will be massive but the BBC will say that numbers are down no matter what because that's what they've been told to say. Will be out leafleting for it in a few hours time. *These things don't happen often in anyone's lifetime*. Get down here.


 
kinda depends what you mean by "often" i guess


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2012)

cesare said:
			
		

> The tube's a bit broken over the weekend, and people coming in from all over. So people are just posting what feeder march they're joining (with details of where and when) and any other action. And phone numbers if wanted by PM. Nowt cliquish about it, just practical.



Perhaps I was wrong in my assessment then and for that I apologise. The big protests back in the day (Iraq war etc) used to have publicised meeting points though. 

I won't be there tomorrow. I'm rostered on to work, unfortunately. Obviously I could have booked a day off but then that would have affected whether I could go to the book fair next week, which I want to do but isn't a foregone conclusion as of yet.


----------



## cesare (Oct 19, 2012)

IC3D said:


> Anybody going to the IWW after do? I'll probably be there, excitingly.


Come to the pub with the rest of us!


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2012)

Good luck for workfare though. I'd want to be involved in that more than the march tbh, especially as action around that has already yielded significant victories.


----------



## IC3D (Oct 19, 2012)

cesare said:


> Come to the pub with the rest of us!


I'm sure I could do both, the do in question is in the Rising Sun Pub on Tottenham court rd, which pub are you saying


> the pub at St C's Place after Workfare on Oxford St.


?


----------



## cesare (Oct 19, 2012)

IC3D said:


> I'm sure I could do both, the do in question is in the Rising Sun Pub on Tottenham court rd, which pub are you saying
> ?


At the end of St Christopher's Place. Or there's the one that xes suggested just down the road from there. There'll be plenty of people around. The Rising Sun's better than original SOAS venue innit


----------



## IC3D (Oct 19, 2012)

cesare said:


> At the end of St Christopher's Place. Or there's the one that xes suggested just down the road from there. There'll be plenty of people around. The Rising Sun's better than original SOAS venue innit


Great, I'm sure I'll be there at some point. Better venue indeed.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 19, 2012)

http://mediocredave.wordpress.com/2012/10/18/notes-ahead-of-the-tuc-march-saturday-october-20th/


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2012)

good travel all


I shall enjoy seeing the doom laden coverage on the beeb when I get back.

oh noes teh bank windows


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

Aye, are you all up and about getting ready with your sarnies and water? 

((( early morning anarchists)))


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 20, 2012)

i may even wash for this one ...


----------



## belboid (Oct 20, 2012)

From the fullness if this train, it's going to be a quiet day...


----------



## TruXta (Oct 20, 2012)

cesare said:


> Aye, are you all up and about getting ready with your sarnies and water?
> 
> ((( early morning anarchists)))


 
Bringing food to the march is cheating. We're aiming for maximum impact of the post-march alcmahol aren't we?


----------



## Badgers (Oct 20, 2012)

TruXta said:
			
		

> Bringing food to the march is cheating. We're aiming for maximum impact of the post-march alcmahol aren't we?


----------



## chilango (Oct 20, 2012)

Good luck to everyone today, hope the day goes well. Stay safe.


----------



## Badgers (Oct 20, 2012)

belboid said:
			
		

> From the fullness if this train, it's going to be a quiet day...



You in the first class carriage?


----------



## belboid (Oct 20, 2012)

Every carriage is First Class on an rmt train...


----------



## rekil (Oct 20, 2012)




----------



## rekil (Oct 20, 2012)

Apparently, yer man there was killed directly after the photo was taken. A bit of a bad omen for today probably.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 20, 2012)

setting off in a bit


----------



## xes (Oct 20, 2012)

*has a massive hangover*

I shall walk the dogs, and go get on that train. Possibly see some of you in a while.


----------



## Littlelostlamb (Oct 20, 2012)

Am there abouts with Jon of arc and dollys gal. Keep us posted re which pub you're meeting at later (I couldn't work out which was agreed)


----------



## belboid (Oct 20, 2012)

Having a nice cup of coffee in the cage in Red Lion Square. Can't be arsed to hang about on the embankment for two hours...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

Apparently plod have a section 60 in place all across London today.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 20, 2012)

Cmon ppl, wheres this pub action?


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 20, 2012)

Good luck everyone. Solidarity!


----------



## Badgers (Oct 20, 2012)

Met up with peeps at the Imperial War Museum park. Was pleasing and everyone seemed in good spirits. Listened to Hazza Harman get heckled, chatted to a pair of cheery coppers and now off to work. Shame not to be marching but the people of Brixton need burgers.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

MetPolice just tweeted saying there is no sec60 in place.

e2a; plod on the ground think there is a sec60 - might take a while to filter down!

Couldn't fucking make it up.


----------



## xes (Oct 20, 2012)

coffee, food,then I'm on my way. Might have to leave my head in the freezer for a bit too, but that shouldn't take long.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 20, 2012)

It's set off now - it's actually quite easy to wander around on the embankment though, in case anyone is worrying about getting trapped.


----------



## belboid (Oct 20, 2012)

Whichever cunt decided these fucking little horns would be a good idea needs to die.


----------



## nagapie (Oct 20, 2012)

Would have liked to have joined my union on today's march but unfortunately am ill in bed. Have a good one!


----------



## Firky (Oct 20, 2012)

Saying on twitter that they (police) have put a section 60 into effect for today's march.

Isn't that to do with violent football hooliganism or can it be used wider? 

NM Googled it.


----------



## 8115 (Oct 20, 2012)

Stop and search, innit.

Section 60 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act 1994, gives police the right to search people in a defined area at a specific time when they believe, with good reason, that: there is the possibility of serious violence; or that a person is carrying a dangerous object or offensive weapon; or that an incident involving serious violence has taken place and a dangerous instrument or offensive weapon used in the incident is being carried in the locality. This law has to be authorised by a senior officer and is used mainly to tackle football hooliganism and gang fights.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

firky said:


> Saying on twitter that they (police) have put a section 60 into effect for today's march.


 
There isn't a sec60 in place.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 20, 2012)

loads of people here - 100,000 according to police - but it all feels a bit tame compared to last year. Lots of union presence with their smart placards etc, but there seems to be less small groups here and less of a diverse mix of people. People seem, well, less angry than previosuly, a bit of resignation in the air perhaps? Still, a good turnout. Let's see what happens later...


----------



## 8115 (Oct 20, 2012)

It looks pretty busy on the news.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

Excellent!


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Oct 20, 2012)

Dollys gal has pointed out two blokes in purple unison gimp suits.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

Disabled folks (dpac) taking to direct action. Thank fuck someone is!


----------



## marty21 (Oct 20, 2012)

I'm in the lamb and flag nr St Christopher's place, off oxford st , come along


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

This tweet made me chuckle;

Lol at policeman asking half a dozen anarchists "Who is in charge here?"


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 20, 2012)

any live feeds?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 20, 2012)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Dollys gal has pointed out two blokes in purple unison gimp suits.


These ones I assume. Unless there are more.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

The Hilton's been occupied.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 20, 2012)

excellent keep us poorly and home bound informed!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

TSG have just pulled up in 3 riotvans at DPAC blockade at Marble Arch at risk. There are about 250 pple there now”


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 20, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> The Hilton's been occupied.



https://twitter.com/julesmattsson/status/259655498398330880/photo/1


> Protesters invaded the carnaby hotel, police and security pushing with then #oct20 More police charging in pic.twitter.com/tLqueLcd


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

Armed plod outside the Ritz


----------



## Libertad (Oct 20, 2012)

DPAC feed at Marble Arch:

http://bambuser.com/v/3077286


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> https://twitter.com/julesmattsson/status/259655498398330880/photo/1


 
Yeah I follow Jules - this was another tweet. Maybe someone getting confused that the Carnaby Hotel is owned by the Hiltons?


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 20, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Yeah I follow Jules - this was another tweet. Maybe someone getting confused that the Carnaby Hotel is owned by the Hiltons?


Sounds like it. Still, it's all good.


----------



## Firky (Oct 20, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> There isn't a sec60 in place.


 
Twitter: wankers posting shite.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

Might be kicking off;

Police have batons out on photographers trying to capture their wrestling Blac Bloc to the ground

cops smashing people into the pavement, portman street

@photoactivist


----------



## Firky (Oct 20, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Excellent!


 
Is that H? I forget his username


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

No idea who's in the photo mate


----------



## Firky (Oct 20, 2012)

I wish I still could go to these marches n stuff but I don't want to be another Thomlinson, now I am high risk


----------



## Firky (Oct 20, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> No idea who's in the photo mate


 
Just sent him a message asking


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

.


----------



## Libertad (Oct 20, 2012)




----------



## TruXta (Oct 20, 2012)

Well, that was a nice day out with the Solfed lot.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 20, 2012)

firky said:


> Is that H? I forget his username



I thought I recognised him from here too.


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Well, that was a nice day out with the Solfed lot.


Yes, nice to see you and your friend, and Badgers earlier. We just got back, a bit knackered.


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

I was quite surprised that the OB let us split off from the main march so easily tbh. We got from Traf Sq to Regent St before they caught up.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 20, 2012)

How did workfare go?


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

firky said:


> Is that H? I forget his username


No, he was with us.


----------



## TruXta (Oct 20, 2012)

cesare said:


> Yes, nice to see you and your friend, and Badgers earlier. We just got back, a bit knackered.


We ended up in the Albert, have just demolished a burger and pint. Bliss. Pretty knackered me too.


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> How did workfare go?


Primark, McDonalds and a few others targeted. Some scuffles with OB. It's on the news.


----------



## TruXta (Oct 20, 2012)

Oh I thought it was about tax avoidance.


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

TruXta said:


> We ended up in the Albert, have just demolished a burger and pint. Bliss. Pretty knackered me too.


Aye, long day. Good turnout though.


----------



## TruXta (Oct 20, 2012)

I've not walked that far for bleeding ages. Would've been a stroll in the park except the last 7 months I've barely put feet to pavement.


----------



## Firky (Oct 20, 2012)

cesare said:


> No, he was with us.


 

Ah 

I wasn't entirely sure, it was the sideburns and glasses that did it.


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

TruXta said:


> Oh I thought it was about tax avoidance.


Yeah, also Starbucks and Vodafone. There was UKUncut up there too, and DPAC at the end at Marble Arch of course. Nothing near the Ritz but I counted at least 16 cops standing round doing nothing. Protecting property though innit, after last year.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 20, 2012)

Probably both. McDonalds just gets it anyway. Whenever I used to visit Berlin the McDonalds there used to get its windows put through on a weekly basis.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 20, 2012)

I do recognise the Asian glasses guy though. I'm now thinking he features on redwatch or somesuch.


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

TruXta said:


> I've not walked that far for bleeding ages. Would've been a stroll in the park except the last 7 months I've barely put feet to pavement.


All that bloody hanging around at the start was the killer


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

firky said:


> Ah
> 
> I wasn't entirely sure, it was the sideburns and glasses that did it.


I knew who you meant, but he doesn't actually look like that bloke at all


----------



## Firky (Oct 20, 2012)

There wasn't nearly enough swear words in the placard for it to be him either 

It's a long time since I saw his ugly dish!


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

firky said:


> There wasn't nearly enough swear words in the placard for it to be him either
> 
> It's a long time since I saw his ugly dish!


No placards, flags and banners


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

Oxford St pics from Paulie: http://m.flickr.com/lightbox.gne?id=8105705322


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

Any idea on numbers? Bigger than march 26?


----------



## bi0boy (Oct 20, 2012)

Is it kicking off yet?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

No, everyone's back home in time for tea


----------



## BigTom (Oct 20, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Any idea on numbers? Bigger than march 26?



Tuc say 150k so significantly smaller


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Oct 20, 2012)

So probably 200k with the non TUC feeders?


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Oct 20, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Any idea on numbers? Bigger than march 26?


Not as big as March 26th but pretty good.


----------



## Libertad (Oct 20, 2012)

cesare said:


> Oxford St pics from Paulie: http://m.flickr.com/lightbox.gne?id=8105705322


 
Nowt there


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

Libertad said:


> Nowt there


Works for me, that's odd


----------



## Libertad (Oct 20, 2012)

Just a blank flickr page. Ah well


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 20, 2012)

Really good turnout today. Went on the march but didnt bother going to Hyde Park.



Citizen66 said:


> How did workfare go?


well it was fun, but not as effective as previous actions. Police hopelessly outnumbered to begin with and they were led a merry dance around Soho as the crowd targeted the Hilton Carnaby Hotel, Boots, Primark, McDonalds, the Salvation Army, Vodaphone and about 10 different Starbucks stores. However, the police are getting wise to this sort of action now and they know it only takes about 10 of them to block off the entrance to a shop, no matter how slow they are to get to the right place.

People managed to enter Boots and Primark, but no shops were "closed down" though many had to shut their shutters. There were some scuffles and the coppers' usual pushing and hitting of pedestrians (regardless of whether they were protestors or shoppers.) Attempted kettle on Oxford Street, but people were too quick for the police.

I'm not sure a lot was achieved today by the workfare action apart from perhaps some news footage, some stuff in tomorrow's papers and the pleasure of taking the piss out of a load of fat, unfit, sweaty coppers. Various cat & mouse games around central London until many of the crowd ended up in Trafalger Square with a load of hooded kids wearing Anonymous masks "occupying" the base of Nelson's Column, to the bemusement of tourists and protestors alike.

Good day overall, but the revolution isn't starting tomorrow.

Marty21: Didn't realise you were in that pub, sorry I missed you!


----------



## peterkro (Oct 20, 2012)

Works for me.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 20, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> So probably 200k with the non TUC feeders?



I *think*	they did the count from people going into hyde park rather than numbers at embankment but that's only because the tweet from @futurethatworks came late in the day


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 20, 2012)

The most amusing thing was seeing all the places that got trashed last year (Fortnum & Mason, banks, the Ritz, Vodaphone shops etc) being guarded by loads of cops. I think there was actually more police protecting multi-national businesses than there was policing the march itself.

The press photographers showed some remarkable nous today in getting to the heart of the action well before the police. I think we should sign them up as direct action militants


----------



## Guineveretoo (Oct 20, 2012)

BigTom said:


> I *think* they did the count from people going into hyde park rather than numbers at embankment but that's only because the tweet from @futurethatworks came late in the day


They count from the back of the march, so couldn't give the figures until late in the day. They don't count the number who attend the rally.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 20, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> However, the police are getting wise to this sort of action now and they know it only takes about 10 of them to block off the entrance to a shop [...]



which means customers can't get into the premises either. 

Well done the polis! You're honorary militants now also.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 20, 2012)

I joined the march at Picadilly at about 1- walked up to Hyde Park, listened to a few speeches, but got a bit bored tbh - so went to the pub and met a few peeps


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## gawkrodger (Oct 20, 2012)

I was only on it for 30 mins or so, from going in to Hilton carnaby to boots before. Had to go (ironically, to Continue with union related work) as normal coppers don't like it when people move about quickly. Was amusing to see the faces of people in maseratis and Bentleys caught up in it


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Oct 20, 2012)

Made it to halfway down Piccadilly before the rest of the family mutinied and whisked me to the pub and shopping. 

Saw the black bloc crossing regent street. 

Slightly lower turnout but better organised so no 2 hour standstill on Embankment like last year. 

Bumped into a couple of people. It was pretty good as these things go.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 20, 2012)

gawkrodger said:


> Was amusing to see the faces of people in maseratis and Bentleys caught up in it


Yep, there were lots of worried looking shoppers on Bond Street/Oxford Street/Covent Garden, taking time out to gawp at protestors in between buying jewellery and iphones.

And this lot, who pissed off the guards at the Savoy and got in a bit of a ruck:



E2A: cant embed video - copy & paste this link and remove the space in the URL
http://vimeo.com /51821369


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Oct 20, 2012)

I was on the march from Embankment to Hyde Park. I never got to see the people with whom I was going and when I sent out texts at Hyde Park they said they were there but I never found them. I left after the African guy with the red top had finished speaking. I missed hearing Miliband thankfully. I heard a bit of Mark Serwotka when I first arrived, he is the only one I have time for really.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 20, 2012)

I left after getting to Hyde Park. I was on my own and from past experiences the speeches would just have made me bored or cross.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 20, 2012)

> #*Boycottworkfare* Protestors invade Carnaby Hotel owned byHilton. Users of slave labour pic.twitter.com/4g5WLAlW”


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 20, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> many of the crowd ended up in Trafalger Square with a load of hooded kids wearing Anonymous masks "occupying" the base of Nelson's Column


I seem to remember that this was where things failed last year - or might have been another demo - but the police know what to do about a group of people sitting in one place. It's when people are running around a busy street with multiple targets that they get really lost, not being able to close down the whole thing and not knowing where anyone is going next.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 20, 2012)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I seem to remember that this was where things failed last year - or might have been another demo - but the police know what to do about a group of people sitting in one place. It's when people are running around a busy street with multiple targets that they get really lost, not being able to close down the whole thing and not knowing where anyone is going next.


yep, absolutely.


----------



## marty21 (Oct 20, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Marty21: Didn't realise you were in that pub, sorry I missed you!


 
no prob - met some other urbans there


----------



## Plumdaff (Oct 20, 2012)

We did the march and had the perfect excuse to leave before the Hyde Park dullness as we had the baby with us. Much better turnout than I'd feared, and my daughter enjoyed the brass band.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 20, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yep, there were lots of worried looking shoppers on Bond Street/Oxford Street/Covent Garden, taking time out to gawp at protestors in between buying jewellery and iphones.
> 
> And this lot, who pissed off the guards at the Savoy and got in a bit of a ruck:
> 
> ...


----------



## yield (Oct 20, 2012)

I joined the march at St Pauls. Thought I saw Rutita on the steps at St Pauls but I wasn't sure.

Nursed a couple of beers at the Pontefract Castle thinking I'd recognise some people from here but I didn't. Met some interesting randoms.


----------



## cesare (Oct 20, 2012)

Bit of a write up and a couple of pics here: http://solfed.org.uk/?q=north-london/october-20-the-view-from-oxford-circus


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 20, 2012)

ha ha - and no-one noticed - thanks Frankel


----------



## ddraig (Oct 20, 2012)

poor gunner


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 20, 2012)

>




There is a tweeet going around attached to a vid of a copper getting lead away by two police medics. Charlie Veitch is making out that he was being pulled off duty because of bad behaviour. @ 1:56 in this vid you see the same copper being helped up off the floor by medics. So no Charlie, stop pretending you have a scoop. He was led away by police medics because that's what they do when some gets injured. 



>


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 20, 2012)

yield said:


> I joined the march at St Pauls. Thought I saw Rutita on the steps at St Pauls but I wasn't sure.


  You did! You could've taken a risk and said hello...I don't bite!


----------



## yield (Oct 20, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> You did! You could've taken a risk and said hello...I don't bite!


Thought it was you! Should've asked.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 20, 2012)

yield said:


> Thought it was you! Should've asked.


 
This is one of those moments when I realise that you know what I look like and I have no clue if I have ever seen a pic or whatever of you.


----------



## yield (Oct 20, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> This is one of those moments when I realise that you know what I look like and I have no clue if I have ever seen a pic or whatever of you.


Cannot remember names but saw a picture of you on here years ago.

Oh well. Another time. Would've felt like an idiot going up to you and asking you if you were off here.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 20, 2012)

yield said:


> Cannot remember names but saw a picture of you on here years ago.
> 
> Oh well. Another time. Would've felt like an idiot going up to you and asking you if you were off here.


 
Heh! Why? I do it all the time.  In fact there were 3 people I said hello to today that I have only ever had internet contact with, not from here but elsewhere. Next time.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 20, 2012)

Pics:

http://www.demotix.com/news/1535673/thousands-people-join-tuc-march#media-1535607

and here:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/stationarynomads/8106361828/in/photostream/lightbox/


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 20, 2012)

I went for a slash andmissed my chance to get a unison hoodie. hard times. Met frogz tho, so you win some you lose some


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 20, 2012)

ddraig said:


> poor gunner


 
Really?  Did anyone see this today anywhere?


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 20, 2012)

gunneradt said:


> Really?  Did anyone see this today anywhere?


It was on the BBC news on telly and radio.


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 20, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> It was on the BBC news on telly and radio.


 
Was it - honestly didnt see a thing.  Must have got buried


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 20, 2012)

gunneradt said:


> Was it - honestly didnt see a thing. Must have got buried


 
It was, yes.  As usual, you're wrong.


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 20, 2012)

absolutely, you're right - it got loads of coverage.  Everyone noticed


----------



## Nigel (Oct 20, 2012)

Anyone know who the guy was who got nicked outside Monsoon in Regents Street with about thirty coppers surrounding him?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 20, 2012)

Nothing much to report. Impressed by the courage and solidarity shown by protestors defending others from plod beatings. Didn't see anything that could be described as violence or vandalism from anyone who wasn't in uniform.


----------



## DrRingDing (Oct 20, 2012)

Nigel said:


> Anyone know who the guy was who got nicked outside Monsoon in Regents Street with about thirty coppers surrounding him?


 
Nope but if witnesses are needed PM me.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 21, 2012)

DrRingDing said:


> Nope but if witnesses are needed PM me.



Get in touch with Green and Black Cross, hopefully they'll be in contact with the arrestee and will be looking for witnesses


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 21, 2012)

BigTom said:


> Get in touch with Green and Black Cross, hopefully they'll be in contact with the arrestee and will be looking for witnesses


 
G&B have been contacted and they only report 2 arrestees today. Neither is not the guy who is tackled to the floor in the vids I posted above which is odd. Maybe some were de-arrested?

That said maybe he didn't contact G&B? He is known to many so the vid has been circulated and peeps are trying to find out where he is etc.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Oct 21, 2012)

I missed this coz I was out burying my grandma, was it as big as the March 26th one? Seems like there was a lot less aggro. 

Also, y'know all these workfare direct action protests that go on, usually on Oxford St, after the march? Wouldn't it be an idea for some of the smaller direct action orientated groups to try and spread out these activities accross the capital, not just in the same place as always where the police are expecting you? Stretch police numbers and stuff.


----------



## nogojones (Oct 21, 2012)

Well that was fun and running up and down Oxford St was the most exercise I've had in ages


----------



## DrRingDing (Oct 21, 2012)

Sorry to hear that Delroy.

I couldn't get a handle on the numbers but the BBCs statement of "tens of thousands" is fucking dark and misrepresentative.

I may be tired and have the shits from eating the Hare Krishnas curry so, I may change my mind in the morning but... What a waste of time. We're fucked. Pathetic. Even the bits that are meant to be more gnarly were fluffy as fuck.

Quite sad really. All rather passive and dumb.


----------



## editor (Oct 21, 2012)

Have to say it was all depressingly underwhelming from what I saw (which was, admittedly, only the end of the march).


----------



## cesare (Oct 21, 2012)

Sorry about your grandma, Delroy.

The DPAC direct action was carried out concurrently with the march. The Workfare direct action was after the march had got to a certain point - Traf Sq. The trade unionists carried on to Hyde Park and their rally, whilst the SF broke away for Workfare (and some tax avoidance).


----------



## xes (Oct 21, 2012)

I cheated and only did half the march (joining in at trafalgar square) Very subdued and quiet. Was outside the pub (Quebec) when lots of people dressed in dark attire legged it down oxford street followed by lots of people in bright yellow attire. Next time, if blacbloc could have a mini soundsystem with some benny hill tunes on the go, that would be perfect.


----------



## grogwilton (Oct 21, 2012)

It was always going to be smaller then March 26th because of Unison putting the boot into the union movement and the anti cuts movement following their shameful and idiotic* u turn in the pensions dispute.

With this in mind in excess of 100,000 (police and sky news figures, fuck you, craven BBC) was a good turnout and more then I and many other activists expected, and hopefully this will go some way to rebuilding the momentum that Unison trashed, which I believe will gather pace again, purely because the government intend to impose far more cuts then what's already come.

*I guess it's only idiotic if you think their role is to defend their members, the services their members provide, and to help the 99% in society generally. If all they are is a method of getting money and votes for Labour, which is entirely possible, then it's not so idiotic.


----------



## malatesta32 (Oct 21, 2012)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Made it to halfway down Piccadilly before the rest of the family mutinied and whisked me to the pub and shopping.
> 
> Saw the black bloc crossing regent street.
> 
> ...


 
yeah terrible them bloody families, always dragging us off to the pub when there's work to be done!


----------



## Guineveretoo (Oct 21, 2012)

grogwilton said:


> It was always going to be smaller then March 26th because of Unison putting the boot into the union movement and the anti cuts movement following their shameful and idiotic* u turn in the pensions dispute.
> 
> With this in mind in excess of 100,000 (police and sky news figures, fuck you, craven BBC) was a good turnout and more then I and many other activists expected, and hopefully this will go some way to rebuilding the momentum that Unison trashed, which I believe will gather pace again, purely because the government intend to impose far more cuts then what's already come.
> 
> *I guess it's only idiotic if you think their role is to defend their members, the services their members provide, and to help the 99% in society generally. If all they are is a method of getting money and votes for Labour, which is entirely possible, then it's not so idiotic.


I am interested - what do you think Unison should have done in the pensions dispute, which they had not already done?


----------



## october_lost (Oct 21, 2012)

I am not in LGPS but unison asked those of us in SAUL after much wrangling to accept an agreement which now intiated a two tier pension scheme for final payment and CARE. Dividing the workforce over two schemes now means both are massively vulnerable to further changes, without the support of each other.


----------



## xes (Oct 21, 2012)

anyone lining themselves up for a kicking on the 5th?


----------



## BigTom (Oct 21, 2012)

xes said:


> anyone lining themselves up for a kicking on the 5th?


 
Hell yes! I couldn't make it to yesterday so I'll be going down on the 5th, sounds like the police were mostly reasonable yesterday, I imagine they'll be back to their usual brutal selves for the students and I don't have any bruises on my body right now


----------



## sihhi (Oct 21, 2012)

I got told off in an anti-cuts meeting for saying this march was a bad idea and saying it would be better if everyone stayed in the town or borough they were in and organised a local protest at the same time.
It was _exactly_ identical to March 26, in terms of route and content - large march of protestors followed by by being lectured at in Hyde Park. It was the same as March 26, why would those bored or frustrated the last time, who saw that the cuts weren't mitigated much less stopped, go again to do the same thing.

It's exactly the same as the Feb 15 2003 major anti-war rally followed by a series of similar rallies in March and April 2003, doing exactly the same thing. There's nothing no plan for a sit-down protest. No plan for encouraging anything even remotely different. Always central London where the only people to see you are tourists or rich people, never a suburb. It's sort of meant to be against the government but the government are never even touched.

Those who supported the idea on the left seem to come from a totally crazy idea where the only workfare targets are in central London. 

Regardless of boos at Ed M, the voices of ordinary people have again been drowned out by Labour pseudo-nonsense in general - they have been interviewed on the radio.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 21, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> I missed this coz I was out burying my grandma, was it as big as the March 26th one? Seems like there was a lot less aggro.
> 
> Also, y'know all these workfare direct action protests that go on, usually on Oxford St, after the march? Wouldn't it be an idea for some of the smaller direct action orientated groups to try and spread out these activities accross the capital, not just in the same place as always where the police are expecting you? Stretch police numbers and stuff.


 
We chatted about suggesting this to BW instead of a central action but decided that we'd rather have something central for a few reasons:

1) the additional cost for anyone to travel away from the march which might stop claimants joining
2) the logistical issues of people from outside London knowing where to go / how to get there (not a big problem obviously but again could/would put people off going, especially if they were concerned about timings and getting back onto union coaches)
3) When we have national days of action we do this kind of thing already and it's great to go to a larger direct action thing, one with hundreds or low thousands of people, rather than tens of people. This was the main reason we didn't propose it to BW in the end - we decided that we'd rather take part in a bigger central action than one of a number of smaller ones.

I still like the idea but the ukuncut oxford street action was great last year (except for all the arrests, but BW avoided that particular trap by not having the one big action target it seems) and a repeat of that was much more appealing to make the journey worthwhile rather than doing basically what we do in Birmingham just somewhere we don't know.


----------



## cesare (Oct 21, 2012)

Plus it was also additional to the ongoing Workfare direct action in loads of places regionally for months. It wasn't a one-off by any means.


----------



## BigTom (Oct 21, 2012)

sihhi said:


> I got told off in an anti-cuts meeting for saying this march was a bad idea and saying it *would be better if everyone stayed in the town or borough they were in and organised a local protest at the same time*.
> It was _exactly_ identical to March 26, in terms of route and content - large march of protestors followed by by being lectured at in Hyde Park. It was the same as March 26, why would those bored or frustrated the last time, who saw that the cuts weren't mitigated much less stopped, go again to do the same thing.
> 
> It's exactly the same as the Feb 15 2003 major anti-war rally followed by a series of similar rallies in March and April 2003, doing exactly the same thing. There's nothing no plan for a sit-down protest. No plan for encouraging anything even remotely different. Always central London where the only people to see you are tourists or rich people, never a suburb. It's sort of meant to be against the government but the government are never even touched.
> ...


 
I Agree with a lot of your post but for two bits, which I've bolded..

First bit, I don't see why a bunch of a-b marches around the UK would be more effective than 3 bigger ones (not that any press will report on the ones in Glasgow and Belfast) in any immediate sense. Local demos happen fairly frequently and November 30th last year was basically exactly what you are suggesting imo, though it was specifically about pensions in name anyway.
There were lots of demonstrations in feb/march 2011 as council's announced their budgets, staggered over a few weeks but all clearly linked by local events.
It's not that I disagree about having local demos, or that I don't think it would be a good idea to have a properly co-ordinated day of local demos around the UK, but I think this has essentially happened and there's no reason not to have a big march in London as well.

The second bit I don't understand at all tbh. Most who supported the idea of the march on the left just went on the march, didn't join DPAC or BW in their actions and some would have disowned it if there had been any violence, some probably disown it for "distracting from the day" anyway.
In terms of those who did join BW we've all done actions on our own high streets and city centres (or if not it's because there are people on their own somewhere and now for once they get to join in an action), like UK Uncut we've had national days of action with loads of places all doing stuff on the same day.. what's wrong with a big day out for everyone to come in one place which is London because unions will give us free spaces on coaches down there and it's easy to organise?


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## xes (Oct 21, 2012)

BigTom said:


> Hell yes! I couldn't make it to yesterday so I'll be going down on the 5th, sounds like the police were mostly reasonable yesterday, I imagine they'll be back to their usual brutal selves for the students and I don't have any bruises on my body right now


 
it would appear that the time of bruising is upon you


> The difference with Operation Jubilee, for it to succeed, is that it MUST be an all for one and one for all event; acting as one body, and any and all policemen who lay their hands on anyone protesting peacefully, especially Muad’Dib, will be citizen's arrested, using their own handcuffs against them. This will help the protest to turn out differently, for once. Both the people and the police need to know the rules that the people will be guided by. So that; if or when they attempt what they are likely to attempt (dragging away an individual); they will see that the people will do exactly what they said they would do, and that they have to keep their hands off peaceful protestors. Any weapons used against the people will be confiscated, by the people. THEY will try to lay down their fraudulent rules, falsely claiming they are laying down and enforcing the law, when they are NOT. If it isn’t in the Bible, it is NOT a law, but a fraudulent piece of man-made legislation. So tell them that, and ignore their unlawful fraudulent orders. If they try to enforce fraudulent legislation, they will be committing a crime against the people, and thus are criminals who must be arrested, irrespective of their appearance. In order to prevent THEM from saying that the operation’s rules would be an excuse for anarchists to do as they like, any wrong-doers among the people, will also be arrested by the people. That will also take care of any agent provocateurs/undercover cops - the ones who throw things, etc, in order to provoke a police charge and brutality. Peacefully protesting against treason, corruption and injustice is Lawful, and anybody who attempts to deny someone's right to do so is committing a crime, and will be arrested. Stay anonymous. Stay free and join Operation Jubilee.


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## BigTom (Oct 21, 2012)

oh wait, I thought the 5th was the student demo.. this is the anonymous thing isn't it.. I won't bother travelling down for that tbh, can't afford to anyway but I can blag a coach space for the student demo.. 
That quote is just fucking hilarious.


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## cesare (Oct 21, 2012)

xes said:


> it would appear that the time of bruising is upon you


"If it isn't in the Bible..." 

Wtf


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## sihhi (Oct 21, 2012)

BigTom said:


> I Agree with a lot of your post but for two bits, which I've bolded..
> 
> First bit, I don't see why a bunch of a-b marches around the UK would be more effective than 3 bigger ones (not that any press will report on the ones in Glasgow and Belfast) in any immediate sense. Local demos happen fairly frequently and November 30th last year was basically exactly what you are suggesting imo, though it was specifically about pensions in name anyway.
> There were lots of demonstrations in feb/march 2011 as council's announced their budgets, staggered over a few weeks but all clearly linked by local events.
> ...


 
November 30 was much better. I dunno, it feels like an empty ritual now - the large London march exactly like the Stop the War Coalition was - for those coming from other parts of England to London like a day-visit to a shrine. The TUC should use the money they spend on the big London march on actually increasing organisation on the borough/district level. I don't blame anyone for taking part though. I took part. It just feels cynical by the TUC, they have something large and noisy to distract from their behaviour.


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## sihhi (Oct 21, 2012)

I think maybe emotion is getting in the way, N30 had a strike behind it and I got sworn at by 2 separate strikebreakers so it was more direct. They got riled up, I was happy.


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## BigTom (Oct 21, 2012)

sihhi said:


> November 30 was much better. I dunno, it feels like an empty ritual now - the large London march exactly like the Stop the War Coalition was - for those coming from other parts of England to London like a day-visit to a shrine. The TUC should use the money they spend on the big London march on actually increasing organisation on the borough/district level. I don't blame anyone for taking part though. I took part. It just feels cynical by the TUC, they have something large and noisy to distract from their behaviour.


 
Yeah, I agree with this entirely and your other post entirely.. I think for the TUC it's a way of containing, controlling and directing the anger about what is happening into something that will get Labour into power supposedly to defend the system that has been getting destroyed since the 70s which they used to have power through.. 
I'm not one to say that a-b marches are going to be effective, they are advertising really, an opportunity to meet with friends from around the country in this case as well.. I just think what you want has happened and it's not a reason not to have big London marches every so often.
I would like to see another N30 type day though, with marches around the UK. At least it wouldn't mean travelling for ages to do something pointless


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## sihhi (Oct 21, 2012)

BigTom said:


> I'm not one to say that a-b marches are going to be effective, they are advertising really, an opportunity to meet with friends from around the country in this case as well.. *I just think what you want has happened.*


 
TUC has not put anywhere near the same money for local protests. Nothing is really transparent. Where did 20 October really come from? It was leadership sponsored at the TUC Comgress, wasn't it? TUC doesn't fund organising drives for privatised or workfare people, it caves in on pensions, it doesn't fund joint action with local groups, just makes sure its own big national ones are well attended.
Will TUC really get behind with money in a practical way ETUC's European wide day of action planned for 14 November - general strikes (so far) in Cyprus, Greece, Portugal, Spain? Wait and see I suppose.


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## BigTom (Oct 21, 2012)

sihhi said:


> TUC has not put anywhere near the same money for local protests. Nothing is really transparent. Where did 20 October really come from? It was leadership sponsored at the TUC Comgress, wasn't it? TUC doesn't fund organising drives for privatised or workfare people, it caves in on pensions, it doesn't fund joint action with local groups, just makes sure its own big national ones are well attended.
> Will TUC really get behind with money in a practical way ETUC's European wide day of action planned for 14 November - general strikes (so far) in Cyprus, Greece, Portugal, Spain? Wait and see I suppose.


 
There's a europe wide day of action? Shows how much the TUC are going to put into it if I've not heard of it... buy yeah, you're right, aside from N30 which was driven by/about the strike (and followed by sell out), what you want hasn't happened, and I've no idea how to make it happen either. Midlands TUC are fucking useless. December 5th is Autumn statement, we're organising a demo in Birmingham, I imagine there'll be a few around the UK.. but then that's not enough time to pass motions etc. all the way up to the TUC central committee I suppose.


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## xes (Oct 21, 2012)

BigTom said:


> oh wait, I thought the 5th was the student demo.. this is the anonymous thing isn't it.. I won't bother travelling down for that tbh, can't afford to anyway but I can blag a coach space for the student demo..
> That quote is just fucking hilarious.


there seems to be another 5th thing here "operation vendetta" again from trafalgar square. I didn't know of any student things on, are anon hijacking the student stuff?


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## cesare (Oct 21, 2012)

xes said:


> there seems to be another 5th thing here "operation vendetta" again from trafalgar square. I didn't know of any student things on, are anon hijacking the student stuff?


Vendetta? Loads of those V masks?


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## BigTom (Oct 21, 2012)

xes said:


> there seems to be another 5th thing here "operation vendetta" again from trafalgar square. I didn't know of any student things on, are anon hijacking the student stuff?


 
The NUS have a demo in November, but it's not till the 21st it turns out
http://www.nus.org.uk/en/campaigns/funding-our-future/demo2012-educate-employ-empower1/


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## xes (Oct 21, 2012)

cesare said:


> Vendetta? Loads of those V masks?


the video said V masks are optional


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## SpookyFrank (Oct 21, 2012)

> _The difference with Operation Jubilee, for it to succeed, is that it MUST be an all for one and one for all event; acting as one body, and any and all policemen who lay their hands on anyone protesting peacefully, especially Muad’Dib, will be citizen's arrested, using their own handcuffs against them. This will help the protest to turn out differently, for once. Both the people and the police need to know the rules that the people will be guided by. So that; if or when they attempt what they are likely to attempt (dragging away an individual); they will see that the people will do exactly what they said they would do, and that they have to keep their hands off peaceful protestors. Any weapons used against the people will be confiscated, by the people. THEY will try to lay down their fraudulent rules, falsely claiming they are laying down and enforcing the law, when they are NOT. If it isn’t in the Bible, it is NOT a law, but a fraudulent piece of man-made legislation. So tell them that, and ignore their unlawful fraudulent orders. If they try to enforce fraudulent legislation, they will be committing a crime against the people, and thus are criminals who must be arrested, irrespective of their appearance. In order to prevent THEM from saying that the operation’s rules would be an excuse for anarchists to do as they like, any wrong-doers among the people, will also be arrested by the people. That will also take care of any agent provocateurs/undercover cops - the ones who throw things, etc, in order to provoke a police charge and brutality. Peacefully protesting against treason, corruption and injustice is Lawful, and anybody who attempts to deny someone's right to do so is committing a crime, and will be arrested. Stay anonymous. Stay free and join Operation Jubilee._


 
Not sure about the bible bit, but otherwise spot on. It also describes the behaviour I saw yesterday from some of the black bloc-ish types, they were not attempting to cause damage or provoke confrontation at all but they were straight onto any copper who tried to start any shit, physically obstructing them and/or relieving them of their weapons. Even when two or three aggressive coppers were surrounded by dozens of the people and it would have been the easiest thing in the world to beat them into piggy paté they were simply disarmed and restrained until more coppers turned up to rescue them from the people they so dilligently serve. Top marks all round, this is exactly how violent coppers should be dealt with.

At one point I saw a copper, surrounded and bombarded with chants of 'who's kettled now?' after attempting to smack a passing ne'er do-well with his baton, theatrically returning said baton to its holster while loudly proclaiming 'I'm putting it away now!' having become acutely aware of the likely consequences of him swinging it at anyone


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## sihhi (Oct 21, 2012)

BigTom said:


> There's a europe wide day of action? Shows how much the TUC are going to put into it if I've not heard of it... buy yeah, you're right, aside from N30 which was driven by/about the strike (and followed by sell out), what you want hasn't happened, and I've no idea how to make it happen either. Midlands TUC are fucking useless. December 5th is Autumn statement, we're organising a demo in Birmingham, I imagine there'll be a few around the UK.. but then that's not enough time to pass motions etc. all the way up to the TUC central committee I suppose.


 
It's criminal what TUC, Verdi IG Metall, CGT - the major 'north' European countries are doing - every time the southern European countries get together and coordinate their strike days - the north European countries think it inappropriate to attack their own governments. Only by threatening to breakaway from ETUC was the Day of Action even on the agenda.

Who is the General Secretary of ETUC? John Monks (has been since 2003), former General Secretary of the TUC, and he is strongly pro-EU integration (part of the European Movement), which to the south Europeans seems like 'shaft the south with austerity and steer clear of it up north'.
The northern Confederations basically believe the Greeks deserved it and are lazy, and 'their' national money is being spent on Greece so they better show value for money. (Greeks on average work about a fifth longer than British people do).

I think I had better stop now. Does anyone remember John Monks? What was his role in the 1970s and 1980s?


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## ska invita (Oct 21, 2012)

xes said:


> I didn't know of any student things on,


I think thats this http://www.demo2012.org.uk/ Wed 21 Nov


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## grogwilton (Oct 21, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> I am interested - what do you think Unison should have done in the pensions dispute, which they had not already done?


 
1) Not victimise trot reps such as Yunus Bakhsh, Tony Staunton and Karen Reissman. Having good reps regardless of political affiliation means you can get your members out.
2) Putting more emphasis on campaigning, fighting, and yes, striking over a long time in the union, or if you hadn't done that not be surprised when your pensions strike isn't that solid, shit yourself, and completely cave.
3) When you've realised that your strike wasn't as solid as you'd like it to be, instead of letting down the other public sector unions and caving, work out why it wasn't so solid in some areas and more solid in others, when your ballot returned a yes vote, and work hard to solve that problem. This third point was basically put to me by a Unison official I know who was shocked by the climbdown. On November 30th he said in a speech to a rally that the strike was 'just the beginning', and subsequently looked a bit silly when Unison sold out around Christmas/New Year (interesting timing).
4) Don't get your membership out to lose a days pay and settle for a deal you said was so bad you had to strike for it before the strike. That is literally the worst thing you could do to your membership, worse then not even bringing them out at all, as it means the next strike will be even less respected by the membership.


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## SlaveofSolitude (Oct 21, 2012)

Had a place on a coach booked but got up thinking 'why bother?' Went out to the market and ended up in Caffe Nero. Got home and listened to the football and brooded on things I'm powerless to go back and change. Had a nap and went out again. Drank a lot and contemplated the descent into petit-bourgeois individualism on a proletarian income.

Bullshit. Pure fucking bullshit.


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## Captain Hurrah (Oct 21, 2012)

Your name a reference to Patrick Hamilton?


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## Citizen66 (Oct 21, 2012)

SlaveofSolitude said:


> Had a place on a coach booked but got up thinking 'why bother?' Went out to the market and ended up in Caffe Nero. Got home and listened to the football and brooded on things I'm powerless to go back and change. Had a nap and went out again. Drank a lot and contemplated the descent into petit-bourgeois individualism on a proletarian income.
> 
> Bullshit. Pure fucking bullshit.



Nice first post. Welcome to the mayhem.


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## SlaveofSolitude (Oct 21, 2012)

Captain Hurrah said:


> Your name a reference to Patrick Hamilton?


 

I am Patrick Hamilton.


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 21, 2012)

grogwilton said:


> 1) Not victimise trot reps such as Yunus Bakhsh, Tony Staunton and Karen Reissman. Having good reps regardless of political affiliation means you can get your members out.


 
They're doing this atm in Hudderfield/Kirklees Unison. It's really bad coz if all the Trot reps go then there's no ready supply of competent replacements prepared to take over, and one of the best Unison branches in the country will be up shit creek.


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## ayatollah (Oct 21, 2012)

Those of you a bit pissed off with the periodic "Big London March" after the last few times should spare a thought for those of us who can still remember stumbling repeatedly round London chanting "hurry, hurry, hurry... shoot Len Murrey" .. or even "Maggie.. Maggie, Maggie.... Out..Out...Out "! The TUC were always class collaborationist shitbags , and always will be... just re-read stuff on the betrayal of the 1926 General Strike. As other posters have correctly said, at present the entire purpose of the Big Marches schtick is to do a bit of lightweight posturing .. to provide the illusion to a shrinking membership that the union bosses are worth their gigantic salaries and pension deals, and to cause as little actual disruption as possible , so as to build up some mistaken belief that it might be somehow nicer or different "austerity" (in what real way though -- fuck knows ) under NuLabour. Whilst NuLabour continues to shit from a great height on each and every strike or general anti austerity resistance action by working class people.

Early days yet though.. the cuts of the austerity programme are in their absolute infancy - and the crap London-based temporary/short-time jobs which are massaging the unemployment figures wont be able to mask the mass unemployment still in the pipeline as the world Great Slump II really gets into its stride. The demos and officially sanctioned and spontaneous/rank and file protests will get larger - and new more radical working class "leaders" (representatives) will get elected in union positions. It's only the beginning of a much longer process. Much more exciting and morale boosting events further ahead. No need to despair ! I've waited nearly 30 years for even THIS low level of renewed struggle to emerge from the long night of neoliberal hegemony ... really since the epic class defeat of the 1984 miners strike and its aftermath! As all those motivational speaker bullshitters always say..."It's an opportunity.. not a problem".


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## SlaveofSolitude (Oct 21, 2012)

ayatollah said:


> Those of you a bit pissed off with the periodic "Big London March" after the last few times should spare a thought for those of us who can still remember stumbling repeatedly round London chanting "hurry, hurry, hurry... shoot Len Murrey" .. or even "Maggie.. Maggie, Maggie.... Out..Out...Out "! The TUC were always class collaborationist shitbags , and always will be... just re-read stuff on the betrayal of the 1928 General Strike. As other posters have correctly said, at present the entire purpose of the Big Marches schtick is to do a bit of lightweight posturing .. to provide the illusion to a shrinking membership that the union bosses are worth their gigantic salaries and pension deals, and to cause as little actual disruption as possible , so as to build up some mistaken belief that it might be somehow nicer or different "austerity" (in what real way though -- fuck knows ) under NuLabour. Whilst NuLabour continues to shit from a great height on each and every strike or general anti austerity resistance action by working class people.
> 
> Early days yet though.. the cuts of the austerity programme are in their absolute infancy - and the crap London-based temporary/short-time jobs which are massaging the unemployment figures wont be able to mask the mass unemployment still in the pipeline as the world Great Slump II really gets into its stride. The demos and officially sanctioned and spontaneous/rank and file protests will get larger - and new more radical working class "leaders" (representatives) will get elected in union positions. It's only the beginning of a much longer process. Much more exciting and morale boosting events further ahead. No need to despair ! I've waited nearly 30 years for even THIS low level of renewed struggle to emerge from the long night of neoliberal hegemony ... really since the epic class defeat of the 1984 miners strike and its aftermath! As all those motivational speaker bullshitters always say..."It's an opportunity.. not a problem".


 


The miners' strike was last chance saloon. Neo-liberalism will slowly take us down.


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## cesare (Oct 21, 2012)

Cheer up!





Uploaded with ImageShack.us


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## Citizen66 (Oct 21, 2012)

Heh.


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## Urbanblues (Oct 21, 2012)

sihhi said:


> TUC has not put anywhere near the same money for local protests. Nothing is really transparent. Where did 20 October really come from? It was leadership sponsored at the TUC Comgress, wasn't it?


 
No, yesterday's march was not "...leadership sponsored at the TUC Comgress...". The original idea came from the Left in Unite; and it was for a demonstration to defend the NHS. However, at a TUC GC meeting earlier this year (around about June as I recall) both Mark Serwotka and Matt Wrack proposed that the theme of the demo and rally be broadened to include all the other sectors and individuals feeling the pain of the cuts; and Unite agreed to the proposition.


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## TruXta (Oct 21, 2012)

It was a nice day out. What can I say?


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## Citizen66 (Oct 21, 2012)

Regardless of the 'effectiveness', marches are always a good social event. It would be nice if more people could be more militant but the state holds all the cards on that one given they can completely fuck up your life if they can pin any sort of crime on you and that deters many from out and out militantism.


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## GarfieldLeChat (Oct 21, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Regardless of the 'effectiveness', marches are always a good social event. It would be nice if more people could be more militant but the state holds all the cards on that one given they can completely fuck up your life if they can pin any sort of crime on you and that deters many from out and out militantism.


and how long before the gaols were full and the courts at bursting point...

so little imagination. they govern by consent, the quickest way to change would be to withdraw it wholesale and then let them attempt to suppress, which in turn would reveal the full nature of the status quo which would in turn lead to further protest. argue all you like about the occupy movement but staying put in large numbers has more impact than walking round in circles going nowhere


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## SlaveofSolitude (Oct 21, 2012)

GarfieldLeChat said:


> and how long before the gaols were full and the courts at bursting point...
> 
> so little imagination. they govern by consent, the quickest way to change would be to withdraw it wholesale and then let them attempt to suppress, which in turn would reveal the full nature of the status quo which would in turn lead to further protest. argue all you like about the occupy movement but staying put in large numbers has more impact than walking round in circles going nowhere


 


When it's no more than a relative handful of people (which is all it ever can be), everybody else will just shrug and carry on. And that's when they're not actively hostile.

We're caught in a trap.


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## Treacle Toes (Oct 21, 2012)

> *Marching Is Not Enough – Boycott Workfare and DPAC Show the Way*
> 
> Posted on October 21, 2012 by johnny void | 10 Comments
> 
> ...


http://johnnyvoid.wordpress.com/201...nough-boycott-workfare-and-dpac-show-the-way/


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## Blagsta (Oct 21, 2012)

SlaveofSolitude said:


> When it's no more than a relative handful of people (which is all it ever can be), everybody else will just shrug and carry on. And that's when they're not actively hostile.
> 
> We're caught in a trap.


 
I can't walk out...


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## Urban-Guerrilla (Oct 21, 2012)

http://gaughanstaggcumann.blogspot.co.uk


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 21, 2012)

grogwilton said:


> 1) Not victimise trot reps such as Yunus Bakhsh, Tony Staunton and Karen Reissman. Having good reps regardless of political affiliation means you can get your members out.
> 2) Putting more emphasis on campaigning, fighting, and yes, striking over a long time in the union, or if you hadn't done that not be surprised when your pensions strike isn't that solid, shit yourself, and completely cave.
> 3) When you've realised that your strike wasn't as solid as you'd like it to be, instead of letting down the other public sector unions and caving, work out why it wasn't so solid in some areas and more solid in others, when your ballot returned a yes vote, and work hard to solve that problem. This third point was basically put to me by a Unison official I know who was shocked by the climbdown. On November 30th he said in a speech to a rally that the strike was 'just the beginning', and subsequently looked a bit silly when Unison sold out around Christmas/New Year (interesting timing).
> 4) Don't get your membership out to lose a days pay and settle for a deal you said was so bad you had to strike for it before the strike. That is literally the worst thing you could do to your membership, worse then not even bringing them out at all, as it means the next strike will be even less respected by the membership.


A genuine question, here. Which bit of Unison did all of this? Was it the national executive committee (or whatever it is called these days?), or the national officials/General Secretary? Or was the decision taken regionally?  Did branches/regions put pressure on Unison to keep going, or to give in?

I am not having a go - I really don't know what happened and why they "caved in". I am a bit more aware of why PCS made a bit of a mess of the campaign, but I am not at all sure what happened with Unison.

Was it not helped by Unison members being in so many different pension schemes, so there were lots of separate negotiations? I wouldn't have expected that to make much difference, since the argument was pretty much the same?

An issue which appeared to be problematic for all the public sector unions was the perception that public sector pensions, even after all the changes, were still better than those available in the private sector. That one really annoyed me most when I saw it in the press, as it certainly didn't use to be the case, and would not have been the case, if unions had remained strong in the private sector. Not enough is being done to organise trade unions in the private sector, imho....

Anyway, bit a derail. Sorry.


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## ayatollah (Oct 21, 2012)

SlaveofSolitude said:


> When it's no more than a relative handful of people (which is all it ever can be), everybody else will just shrug and carry on. And that's when they're not actively hostile.
> 
> We're caught in a trap.


 
Hmmm...sounds like a fatalistic self justification for doing nothing, and simply going down the pub to me. Fortunately for the future revolutionery struggle, capitalism worldwide is in a death dive with no obvious new point of profitable stability, certainly no new growth path. This is drawing ever more people into resistance like a black hole draws in all surrounding matter in physics. The final outcome could of course be a new utterly oppressive fascistic form of capitalism , or the "mutual destruction of all classes" as referred to by Marx in The Communist Manifesto... OR, it just could lead, after admittedly a lot of struggle and grief, to a better more rational society. I know what I'd prefer, and I don't think capitalism in death crisis mode is going to allow most people to just "sit it out in the pub" or just "shrug and carry on" as the impact of the crisis produces "Greece-like" economic and political conditions for masses of ordinary people right across the globe.

Look at the conditions of the Weimar Republic if you want to see how "easy" it was for people to just "shrug and carry on". That is the economic and political future in innumerable countries in the not so far off future as the economic crisis moves into its next "Deep Depression" phase. You'll find yourself sitting in the pub with no beer, no crisps, and no light I'm afraid SlaveofSolitude.. try being so "I'm not getting involved.. it's all hopeless" about that !


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## ddraig (Oct 21, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> A genuine question, here. Which bit of Unison did all of this? Was it the national executive committee (or whatever it is called these days?), or the national officials/General Secretary? Or was the decision taken regionally? Did branches/regions put pressure on Unison to keep going, or to give in?
> 
> I am not having a go - I really don't know what happened and why they "caved in". I am a bit more aware of why PCS made a bit of a mess of the campaign, but I am not at all sure what happened with Unison.
> 
> ...


 
straight question - do you think unison should have done more to fight for pensions, yes or no?


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## Guineveretoo (Oct 21, 2012)

ddraig said:


> straight question - do you think unison should have done more to fight for pensions, yes or no?



I can't answer that question because I don't know why they did what they did. A union is only as strong as its membership. If it lost the backing of its membership, then the leadership, both lay and paid, had no choice but to give in. But I don't know if that is what happened.


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## Smokeandsteam (Oct 21, 2012)

sihhi said:


> November 30 was much better. I dunno, it feels like an empty ritual now - the large London march exactly like the Stop the War Coalition was - for those coming from other parts of England to London like a day-visit to a shrine. The TUC should use the money they spend on the big London march on actually increasing organisation on the borough/district level. I don't blame anyone for taking part though. I took part. It just feels cynical by the TUC, they have something large and noisy to distract from their behaviour.



Spot on posts Sihhi, I felt exactly the same wandering around yesterday. Same route, same speeches, same paper sellers calling for same things. Blah blah. 

Can't blame TUC alone though. These things are agreed by the big affiliates like Unite, Unison, PCS etc.


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## emanymton (Oct 21, 2012)

Guineveretoo said:


> I can't answer that question because I don't know why they did what they did. A union is only as strong as its membership. If it lost the backing of its membership, then the leadership, both lay and paid, had no choice but to give in. But I don't know if that is what happened.


The Unison bureaucracy actively called for and campaigned for a yes vote on the 'compromise' deal and did it's best to silence anyone calling for a no vote. This is what is know as selling out the membership like a bunch a scab bastards.
Hope that helps


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## Spanky Longhorn (Oct 21, 2012)

ddraig said:


> straight question - do you think unison should have done more to fight for pensions, yes or no?


 
It would have been fantastic is the vast majority of Unison members had been up for a fight.

They weren't.

The problem is not one of leadership over this one issue - but a failiure of the whole union movement to organise effectively over a whole range of issues for years (something we are all to blame for not just the leadership) - something that will not be changed by a handful of 1917 reenactors screaming hysterically for a general strike right now without having any plan for how to build for a sustained campaign of resistance.

Btw the decsions over the pensions was taken at every level by the elected lay leaderships - if the far left can't win a majority on those bodies to make the argument whose fault is that?


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## Treacle Toes (Oct 21, 2012)




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## october_lost (Oct 21, 2012)

emanymton said:


> The Unison bureaucracy actively called for and campaigned for a yes vote on the 'compromise' deal and did it's best to silence anyone calling for a no vote. This is what is know as selling out the membership like a bunch a scab bastards.
> Hope that helps


http://libcom.org/blog/unison-officials-spy-their-own-activists-ensure-yes-vote-pensions-25082012


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## frogwoman (Oct 22, 2012)

bit peed off to see zeitgeist and did anyone else spot the freemen on the land?


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 22, 2012)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> It would have been fantastic is the vast majority of Unison members had been up for a fight.
> 
> They weren't.
> 
> ...


 
Agree with you for the most part, but I also think even if the Unison members had been out in force the leadership would've still backed out. Remember they bailed out less than 24 hours after Nov 30th. There was no meetings with rank and rile or other reps, no post-mortem to analyse the strength of the strike, it was an executive decision taken immediately after the strike. More than likely they made this decision before the day of strike action, but were under pressure from their membership to go along with the rest of the Trade Union movement, so they reluctantly agreed to join in Nov 30. I think, as do a lot more senior Unison people who I've spoken too about this, that the leadership were reluctant from the start and would've bailed out regardless of what happened on the day itself.

Consider this, even if they had a massive turnout, would that alone have reversed the policy? No, of course not. The Tories won't budge an inch, and they're more than happy to use the full powers of the British state to have their way. If they'd had a massive turnout, I think that'd have made little difference in the end.

I also think that looking for uniformity in strike action with these massive amalgamated unions like Unison and Unite is a bit of a waste of time. These unions represent millions of workers, in many different areas, in different trades, with different pension schemes and political battles. You'll _never_ get uniformity in these kinds of unions and looking for it is a waste of time. Furthermore, it's one of the age old excuses for calling off a strike. It was the exact same excuse the more moderate Chartist leaders used to dissuade the "physical force" Chartists from calling a national strike in 1838. It was one of the reasons the leadership of the TUC called off the General Strike 1926. If you look in detail you'll see this come up again and again. It's holding the movement to a standard they know damn well is impossible to reach, which provides a convenient pretext for bailing out and saving the Labour party the embarassment of having to publicly condemn strikes.

The far left is also to blame for this, because they have a nostalgic commitment to one big day of action, as if all it will take is one day of herculean effort and before you know it we'll all be storming the bastille. In truth this is a stupid policy. The strength isn't there for starters, and even if it was, the trade unions even at their peak are no match for a sovereign state, especially not one as stable, wealthy and militarised as Britain. Even at their peak with 17 or 18 million members we could never have done it. Once you call a general strike, you're effectively challenging the legitimacy of the state itself. It's not just bargaining. They learned this the hard way in France in 1968, once you've crossed that point you're in a fight to the finish with the State, there's no going back to asking for concessions once you've challenged the state like that.

EDIT: A quick note here. The main reason the far-left sects advocate these "days of action" isn't because it's a workable strategy, but because it gives them a huge opportunity to sell papers and recruit members. I remember going to a Trot-Meet shortly after the 30th strike. There I was told that the strike was a great success; they'd signed up 10 new members, got hundreds of names on a petition, they even managed to sell a record breaking number of papers, breaking the previous record held by the Anti-War marches in 2003. Barely a mention of how good the turnout was. They judge how successful these things are by how many papers they can sell, and they can sell more papers on these big demo's than they can anywhere else.

Ironicaly of course my area really did have a decent turnout. Every school was shut, the council offices were practically all shut, all the auxillary staff at every school, swimming baths, and hospital were out. The only place that wasn't shut was the job centre, which struggled on with a skeleton staff of about 12. There was definitely some potential here, although I gather the situation was different in other parts of the country? Why should we have to back down, just because somewhere else couldn't be arsed? Why should the people who couldn't be arsed be leading the struggle instead of the people who were?

There's also the fact the Tories would love nothing more than a huge centre-piece showdown with the Trade Unions at this point in time. One great big pitched battle which they know, ultimately, they will win because they can use force if need be. Look at how they reacted to the threat of an Oil Tankers strike, one of those few unionised industries that really could bring the country to it's knees if they went ahead. They revelled in the possibility of a re-enactment of 1984, we'd be foolish to give it to them. I'm no fan of Labour affiliated union bureaucrats, but lets be honest, if the far-left ran Unite they'd have gone headfirst into that fight with no thought to the consequences. As it happens Len McCluskey isn't Arthur Scargill, and Len boxed clever and ended up making a fool out of the govt by doing so.We're fighting an enemy that outguns and outnumbers us, so we can't just meet them in straight-up combat, we have to use guerilla tactics and gradually sap away at the enemies will (if you'll forgive all the shit military analogies)

What should've happened after November 30th is Unison should've looked at the area's with the highest turnout, and for all the doom and gloom there were many area's that did have a good turnout, and then started a series of local disputes in those areas. A slow and steady stream of local strikes, dozens of them simultaneously, and as soon as one stops another one in another industry strikes. No big "day of action" but a sustained campaign, so that the drip drip drip of news in local papers and regional news about strikes popping up all over the place gets out there, adding to the general sense of disapproval that this government already has hanging around it, like a fart in a confined space that won't go away.

People need to remember this is a deeply unpopular government. After only 2 years, they're polling -35 or more for their approval ratings; this is worse than Thatcher at her least popular, worse than Blair at the height of the Iraq War, worse than Brown during the height of the expenses scandal. All it could take is for one of these smaller strikes to catch the public mood and you never know it could surprise us all. But they aren't playing this game at the moment.


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## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 22, 2012)

Brixton Hatter said:


> The press photographers showed some remarkable nous today in getting to the heart of the action well before the police. I think we should sign them up as direct action militants


 
Quite a few are very sympathetic to radical and direct action ;-)


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## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 22, 2012)

here are some photos http://www.demotix.com/news/1540353/tuc-march-and-protest-london


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## ddraig (Oct 22, 2012)

tidy mate

correction needed on shot 16


> Oxford Street branch of Vodafone closed down by protesters and *protested* by police officers


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## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 22, 2012)

ddraig said:


> tidy mate
> 
> correction needed on shot 16


 
nice one, thanks


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## Treacle Toes (Oct 22, 2012)

> *Spirit of revolt is alive in London*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


http://vastminority.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/spirit-of-revolt-is-alive-in-london.html?spref=fb


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## grogwilton (Oct 22, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Agree with you for the most part, but I also think even if the Unison members had been out in force the leadership would've still backed out. Remember they bailed out less than 24 hours after Nov 30th. There was no meetings with rank and rile or other reps, no post-mortem to analyse the strength of the strike, it was an executive decision taken immediately after the strike. More than likely they made this decision before the day of strike action, but were under pressure from their membership to go along with the rest of the Trade Union movement, so they reluctantly agreed to join in Nov 30. I think, as do a lot more senior Unison people who I've spoken too about this, that the leadership were reluctant from the start and would've bailed out regardless of what happened on the day itself.
> 
> Consider this, even if they had a massive turnout, would that alone have reversed the policy? No, of course not. The Tories won't budge an inch, and they're more than happy to use the full powers of the British state to have their way. If they'd had a massive turnout, I think that'd have made little difference in the end.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with a lot of this, particularly the weakness of the movement and of a one day national strike. My main beef with Unison is not that they didn't call further one day national action, but called off the action completely. Talking pragmatice tactics, the approach they have taken is just as mad. It effectively holds up a huge sign to the government saying: 'We're massively weak and we know we are'. Also by claiming it was a shit deal before the strike, and then a great deal (its effectively the same deal) after the strike, they announce to their own membership that they were either lieing to them before or after the strike, or are patronising them by expecting them to swallow the idea that it is a great deal, or have admitted that being in a union and striking can at best get you very, very little, to the point where there's little or no point in being in a union. I'm a dedicated unionist, if I was represeneted by Unison right now I'd see very little point in being in them bar my rep trying to get me some decent redundancy in the very near future.


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## october_lost (Oct 23, 2012)

Any pointers on going forward, or is it all doom and gloom?


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## Delroy Booth (Oct 24, 2012)

Yeah i have a few. Start rebuilding the trade union movement, root and branch. Money spent backing right-wing, careerist Labour politicians should be re-directed to rebuilding the movement. That would potentially free up millions of pounds. Not even out of spite toward Labour, but out of urgent necessity. TU membership has been in decline for decades, because of neo-liberalism, because of post-industrial decline, etc you all know the story. This needs to be turned around. It will take years, obviously, but it has to start now. The alternative is terminal decline.

Use this money to build key unions in the private sector in particular, I think that even a small victory in terms of pay and conditions in the private sector would be useful, first to undermine an already unpopular government, and just because it would be a starting point to rebuilding private sector union density. The same applies to those in precarious self-employment, like people who work for "charities" self employed or dodgy door canvassing companies where you get less than minimum wage and fuck all rights. There's millions of people in that position and resources should be spent on getting them organised, not on bankrolling Labour. The successes of the cleaners strike at John Lewis for example, small as it was, got my hopes up that this sort of thing is possible. It's a shame how it ended up. Something like the IWW, outside the TUC that can help with wildcat strikes and so on, could be really useful in this situation too. Stepping in where the standard trade union movement lets workers down. At the very least it puts pressure on the bigger unions not to be so inactive.

Now they've dropped the pension struggle, a total change in tactics, going to a program of localised strike action based on local services being shut down. It's much easier to build campaigns and a bit of solidarity if you can base it on a shared social service that is under threat: a playing field being sold off to some shady property development company for housing, a swimming baths being closed because of local council cuts, a school being turned into an academy, or driven out of business and closed due to restricted funding. And then there's the really big one - NHS cuts. There's a reason why Cameron pays such fawning lip-service to loving the NHS. From next year when the Primary Care Trusts are being abolished, walk-in centres, outpatient clinics, ambulances services will be sold off to private companies. Entire hospitals are already on the brink of closing down, and workers in the NHS will have their pensions raided, wages cut and many will get made redundant. TUC should spend as much money as it takes to see those campaigns are a success, and the far-left, TUSC et al, should stand candidates against Labour, especially when it's Labour councillors responsible for making those cuts. The TUC won't do that, so the socialists and anarchists must.

Oh yeah and a well run website that could replace the total shit on the left-wing blogs like Liberal Conspiracy and LabourList. Something that could be a genuinely useful co-ordinating tool for lots of smaller campagins. Something like ConservativeHome for the TUC. (God forgive me for saying that out loud) It must be indepedent of Labour though, not just tribalism. That wouldn't even cost much money, probably no more than it costs to run a newspaper.

I think the left in the union movement, those who can lobby the TUC, would get a better hearing if they were proposing something modest along those lines, rather than an annual "general strike now" ballot that can be easily dismissed.


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## Treacle Toes (Oct 24, 2012)




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## Treacle Toes (Oct 24, 2012)




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## Citizen66 (Oct 24, 2012)

Anonymous t shirt.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 24, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Anonymous t shirt.


 

sensationally, anonymous 'hacked' a police forum. So sayeth the news today.

dunno if it was Oracle or UKpolice online.

hope its the latter, as they banned me.


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## Mr.Bishie (Oct 24, 2012)

I suspect the latter too.


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## Citizen66 (Oct 24, 2012)

Surely an anonymous t shirt not accompanied by a face mask is a kind of oxymoron?


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## Mr.Bishie (Oct 24, 2012)

He probably bought it in Camden that day ffs


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## Citizen66 (Oct 24, 2012)

Ironic t shirt.


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## Treacle Toes (Oct 24, 2012)

Citizen66 said:


> Anonymous t shirt.


 
Oh god, he is very well known as well. Irony is _dead_ though so...


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## Mr.Bishie (Oct 24, 2012)




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## treelover (Oct 24, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


>





''My friends are dying''

How is this happening?


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## editor (Oct 25, 2012)

Some photos from Hyde park (after the event, sadly).







http://www.urban75.org/blog/tuc-march-october-20th-hyde-park-aftermath/


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## Dan U (Oct 25, 2012)

park looks screwed. all those concerts take their toll don't they.


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## Treacle Toes (Oct 27, 2012)

http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/police-move-on-campaigners-for-criminal-acts-against-dwp/


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## ddraig (Oct 27, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/police-move-on-campaigners-for-criminal-acts-against-dwp/




what the fuck is this????


> *Some of you may be aware that police invaded the home of a campaigner for Disabled People Against Cuts, living in Cardiff, just before midnight yesterday* (October 26).
> Apparently she had been accused of “Criminal acts against the Department for Work and Pensions” – being that she has been highlighting the deaths of sick and disabled people following reassessment by Atos and the DWP for Employment and Support Allowance.
> No charges were brought against the lady concerned and it is generally considered that this was an act of intimidation.


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## cesare (Oct 27, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/police-move-on-campaigners-for-criminal-acts-against-dwp/


New lows for policing.


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## ddraig (Oct 27, 2012)

please, if anyone has any more info on this i need it
not having much luck finding anything


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## Mr.Bishie (Oct 27, 2012)

Fucking cunts, the lot of 'em.


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## BigTom (Oct 27, 2012)

ddraig said:


> please, if anyone has any more info on this i need it
> not having much luck finding this


 
Are you on twitter? From what I can work out / have seen this morning from twitter the woman in the article posted this morning on facebook to say that the police had been round about stuff she'd been posting on facebook about DWP/ATOS etc.. no idea what she'd said though.
Sonia Poulton (@soniapoulton iirc) is talking to her so expect something in the mail online about it from her, but she might we worth contacting to see if she could put you in contact with the woman.


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## ddraig (Oct 27, 2012)

thankyou


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## Libertad (Oct 27, 2012)

Rutita1 said:


> http://mikesivier.wordpress.com/2012/10/27/police-move-on-campaigners-for-criminal-acts-against-dwp/


 
Wut?


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## Treacle Toes (Oct 27, 2012)

ddraig said:


> please, if anyone has any more info on this i need it
> not having much luck finding anything


 
Am at home today so will definately drop anything I come across that is related here!


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## Treacle Toes (Oct 27, 2012)

> *Sonia Poulton* ‏@*SoniaPoulton*
> Last night a campaigner I know, based in Wales, had a visit from several local cops. It was to do with her FB posts #*DWP* #*ATOS* Police state?


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## ddraig (Oct 27, 2012)

bit more here
http://tompride.wordpress.com/2012/...or-criminal-posts-on-facebook-china-no-wales/


> In her own words:
> _I’ve just had the police forcing their way into my flat near midnight and harrassing me about my “criminal” posts on Facebook about the DWP, accusing me of being “obstructive”. I didn’t know what in f**k’s name they were on about. They kept going on and on at me, it was horrifically stressful, and they only left after I started crying uncontrollably._


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## Mr.Bishie (Oct 29, 2012)

Who the fucking fuck is Liam Brown?

"Vandals, hooligans, bandits, & middle class yobs"

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/liam-brown/its-time-to-crack-down-on_b_2011574.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

What a crock of hand wringing liberal shit.

Thank fuck for a decent comment in reply.


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## rekil (Oct 29, 2012)

​
*Liam Brown*

*@LiamCBrown*

_Executive Editor of The Beaver Newspaper and blogger at the Huffington Post tweeting in a personal capacity._
Toronto · http://www.twitter.com/beaveronline​


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## Mr.Bishie (Oct 29, 2012)

Knob.


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## cesare (Oct 29, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Knob.


Yeah, I was reading that earlier. Clueless.


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## TruXta (Oct 29, 2012)

Typical LSE neolib by all accounts. Probably angling for a "think"tank job somewhere.


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## rekil (Oct 29, 2012)

Mr.Brown is a product of Toronto's Crescent School. Fees are about 33k a year in Canada money.


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## Libertad (Oct 29, 2012)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Who the fucking fuck is Liam Brown?
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/liam-brown/its-time-to-crack-down-on_b_2011574.html?utm_hp_ref=tw


 


> The main aim of the organisers was achieved, and having Ed Miliband address the crowd of workers and their supporters was a nice way to end of the march and signal that the demonstrators' voices were heard.


 


> Oxford Street, a mass of vandals converged on one of the most cherished, and historic, quarters of London.


 
Complete mastery of his subject, wanker.


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## Treacle Toes (Nov 3, 2012)

> *14 November 2012: European Day of Action and Solidarity*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
http://www.etuc.org/a/10446


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## Treacle Toes (Nov 3, 2012)

Coalition of Resistance: 





> *London Event:*​Wednesday 14 November
> *Europe Against Austerity*
> 
> *Protest:*
> ...


----------

