# Riot going on now in Bristol - Stokes Croft



## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

Squat at site of planned tescos, tried to evict it, resistance.. locals in st pauls came down, has all kicked off.
Nothing on mainstream news all on twitter follow #stokescroft

allegations of petrol bombs, certainly fires, barricades etc


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

ok the squat was across the road to the tescos
Pretty sure there has been a long running campaign against that tescos

butchers? you around?


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

from twitter... "Stood on Magpie squat roof saw cops charge, rammed by ablaze wheelie bins serious violance/anger on stokes croft"


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## Bernie Gunther (Apr 22, 2011)

Is this one of those 'cops act as thugs for capitalism against the wishes of local people' things?


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

http://bambuser.com/channel/grantikins/broadcast/1596856

live feed, low quality


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

The tesco opened last friday apparently, against the wishes of local residents.  We really need people local to Bristol to comment on it I think


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...-continue/article-3474865-detail/article.html some background on the squat eviction


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

http://www.jackbristol.com/newscentre/bristols-news/four-arrested-in-stokes-croft-incident-5962

from twitter doesn't seem like it's a huge riot, fairly localised to two or three streets and more pushing and shoving than bricks and petrol bombs, but I don't want to stand by that statement, it's not really clear what's going on


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## twentythreedom (Apr 22, 2011)

stream here  http://bambuser.com/channel/grantikins/broadcast/1596856


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## twentythreedom (Apr 22, 2011)

oh, see it was posted already. fuck tesco and the police anyway!! raaah!


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> from twitter doesn't seem like it's a huge riot, fairly localised to two or three streets and more pushing and shoving than bricks and petrol bombs, but I don't want to stand by that statement, it's not really clear what's going on


 



			
				twitter said:
			
		

> Was put off by word 'riot' but live coverage looked peaceful so have just got myself down there- and it is. #stokescroft



Doesn't sound like it's kicking off big time at the moment, but see what happens when the clubs kick out


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## twentythreedom (Apr 22, 2011)

looks pretty fucking mental


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## Ground Elder (Apr 22, 2011)

Where's the Sky news helicopter when you need it?


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## spliff (Apr 22, 2011)

Seems a bit odd to me that the police would decide to conduct a controversial eviction at midnight on what may be their busiest night for months.


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

protestors blocking police vans on that live feed at the moment


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## gawkrodger (Apr 22, 2011)

'we all live in a Tories wet dream' 

Go Bristol!


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

saxophone accompanies the riot


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## Riklet (Apr 22, 2011)

Wow 

There's a thread in the Briz forum btw, with some mixed opinions.  A huge amount of community organisation and solidarity has gone into resisting the Stokes Croft Tescos though, with activism going on for ages.  Nice to see community self-organisation paying off and people actually taking a stand (to be ripped off by 'Best' and keep the exploitation local haha).  Pretty weird the cops deciding to evict that squat IMO, they've been there ages, i've been to parties in there.... maybe they were being 'linked to' the trouble?

Hopefully they'll be lots of reduced goods in the morning for those so inclined, most of which will probably end up in the bin for the hungry Bristol freegans!


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## Ground Elder (Apr 22, 2011)

It does look like if the police just went away everyone would have a bit of party, paint some more of their crazy graffiti and then fuck off home to bed.


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

ah, didn't think to look in the bristol forum for a thread. I'm going to bed now, half of me hopes it kicks off big style once the clubs kick out, half of me hopes that it calms down.


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## Ground Elder (Apr 22, 2011)

tescos under attack


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## Riklet (Apr 22, 2011)

Someone is yelling on the live feed about a police van being 'abandoned'

......here we go again.


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## spliff (Apr 22, 2011)

Riklet said:


> Someone is yelling on the live feed about a police van being 'abandoned'
> 
> ......here we go again.



Yeah, that's what I thought.


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## Refused as fuck (Apr 22, 2011)

Saxophone. SAXOPHONE.


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

live stream has died now  dead battery probably


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## spliff (Apr 22, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-13167041

"possible petrol bombs" ???


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## Refused as fuck (Apr 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> live stream has died now  dead battery probably


 
this works: http://bambuser.com/channel/grantikins/broadcast/1596856


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## Ground Elder (Apr 22, 2011)

that's not live


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## spliff (Apr 22, 2011)

Refused as fuck said:


> this works: http://bambuser.com/channel/grantikins/broadcast/1596856


I think that's a repeat.


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## Refused as fuck (Apr 22, 2011)

Ah I see.


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## moon23 (Apr 22, 2011)

Eh? A bunch of lefties hate Tesco that is a success because lot's of people want to shop there. I hate this shit, what gives some self-righteous idiot the right to use violence against a company that actually provides a cheap and useful supermarket for most working people?


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## Ground Elder (Apr 22, 2011)

fuck off moon


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## spliff (Apr 22, 2011)

I am genuinely surprised the police would mount an operation of this sort at 9.15pm on what from my limited experience in London looks like the start a massive weekend piss-up. Unless of course they were looking for a response. So then you have to look at motives.

Don't you?


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## Riklet (Apr 22, 2011)

moon23 said:


> Eh? A bunch of lefties hate Tesco that is a success because lot's of people want to shop there. I hate this shit, what gives some self-righteous idiot the right to use violence against a company that actually provides a cheap and useful supermarket for most working people?


 
*chunders everywhere*


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## twentythreedom (Apr 22, 2011)

Refused as fuck said:


> Saxophone. SAXOPHONE.



it's _saxomaphone_ ffs


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## twentythreedom (Apr 22, 2011)

moon23 said:


> Eh? A bunch of lefties hate Tesco that is a success because lot's of people want to shop there. I hate this shit, what gives some self-righteous idiot the right to use violence against a company that actually provides a cheap and useful supermarket for most working people?



you're a disgrace to a meaningful number.


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## Ground Elder (Apr 22, 2011)

Twitter reporting that Tescos has been trashed


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## moon23 (Apr 22, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> you're a disgrace to a meaningful number.


 
Ha you share some numerical kinship with me. How entertaining. 

What's their objection, what's their issue? As a casual observer I can only tell this is something to do with squats, tesco and a bunch of student types protesting and kicking off. Where is the narrative for your average person?


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 22, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> it's _saxomaphone_ ffs


 
This.


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## Riklet (Apr 22, 2011)

Not my photo.. but from the past 2 hours I guess?


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## DaveCinzano (Apr 22, 2011)

moon23 said:


> Where is the narrative for your average person?


 
You fucking weaselly party hack, you quisling cunt, enjoy canvassing on the doorstep and here's to you getting a nice barbed working class narrative up your putrid arsehole


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## spliff (Apr 22, 2011)

moon23 said:


> What's their objection, what's their issue? As a casual observer I can only tell this is something to do with squats, tesco and a bunch of student types protesting and kicking off. Where is the narrative for your average person?


I am a 55 year old married male with a grown up family. 
Do I fit into your 'average person' narrative? 
Using your skill and judgement google TESCO and take off your blinkers.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2009/may/15/tesco-south-africa-workers-conditions
http://www.actionaid.org.uk/1580/press_release.html 
http://www.actionaid.org/main.aspx?PageID=683


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## Riklet (Apr 22, 2011)




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## Riklet (Apr 22, 2011)

"they're breaking back into tesco. police attacking in formation now" #stokescroft

couple of mins ago on twitter, so it's still going on...


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## big eejit (Apr 22, 2011)

I left about half an hour ago. Mayhem.


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## editor (Apr 22, 2011)

Other thread here: http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...stol.-Squatters-evicted-riot-police-called-in


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

moon23 said:


> Ha you share some numerical kinship with me. How entertaining.
> 
> What's their objection, what's their issue? As a casual observer I can only tell this is something to do with squats, tesco and a bunch of student types protesting and kicking off. Where is the narrative for your average person?


 
fuck off cunt. You don't have a fucking clue about my neighbourhood so fuck the fuck off

oh and 'student types'?! Again, fuck off. Lots of working class Bristolian accents out there tonight


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Posted on the other thread:

Wow.

Went up there about 11ish when I saw posts about what was happening. Big stand off on the Chelt Road/Glos Road junction with lines of cops and around 15 vans, many from Gwent police. Bottles and rocks being thrown. Police started pushing rioters down Ashley Road and a giant game of cat and mouse started in streets between Ashley Road and City Road, turning a Stokes Croft situation into a St Pauls situation. Ended up back on Stokes Croft with police charges, crowd scattered and ran, stand off resumed. Everywhere bins were being emptied of ammunition and set alight as barricades. More side street cat and mouse on the Kingsdown side around Nine Tree Hill. Eventually the police fucked off en masse with the inevitable result of rioters descending on Tesco and putting the windows in. Cop 4wd abandoned near Tesco with the inevitable result - a door was being ripped off before it got rescued when the police came screaming back in, more scattering and running, more barricades, more cat and mouse. An hour or so later, cops fucked off again, more destruction of Tesco, shutters being pulled up, main sign paint bombed, small sign ripped down. Cops returned, more scattering down Ashley Road. Dying down around 5am.

Telepathic Heights squat still occupied, lots of debris around Stokes Croft, Cheltenham Road, Ashley Road and City Road. Local residents coming out with brooms to sweep up and giving the cops a piece of their mind. No shops/take aways touched other than Tesco which has been well and truly smashed up on the outside. No idea whether anybody got in or not - though I saw some free fags being passed around so I suspect they did. Didn't seem to be many nickings though I did see one or two.

Yes, it was a proper riot. A smallish one but proper all the same. The cops dropped a massive bollock tonight


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

moon23 said:


> Eh? A bunch of lefties hate Tesco that is a success because lot's of people want to shop there. I hate this shit, what gives some self-righteous idiot the right to use violence against a company that actually provides a cheap and useful supermarket for most working people?


 
I hate you, you fucking worthless shit. Your lot are going to get fucking destroyed around here in two weeks and good fucking riddance. Fuck off pontificating about my back yard you wanker


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Riklet said:


> Not my photo.. but from the past 2 hours I guess?


 
Taken after the first mass attack on Tesco. The vans had just come screaming down from the direction of the Arches, everyone legged it back towards the Ashley Road junction. Before long we were back...


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## ernestolynch (Apr 22, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> oh, see it was posted already. fuck tesco and the police anyway!! raaah!


 
Pfft.


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## shagnasty (Apr 22, 2011)

This from the bbc

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-13167041


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

shagnasty said:


> This from the bbc
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-13167041


 
Yes, was just looking at that funnily enough. Silence from the beeb on the full on riot that followed though


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## The39thStep (Apr 22, 2011)

I must say that I think Morrisons are considerably better than Tescos


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)




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## discokermit (Apr 22, 2011)

spliff said:


> "possible petrol bombs" ???


i bet they found a milk bottle in the fridge.


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

there's a video knocking around of a police car getting smashed up too


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Yeah, they left a 4WD with trailer behind near Tesco when they went into a full on retreat up Cheltenham Road. So the obvious happened - the driver's door was nearly ripped clean off


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## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

Not everyone in the area is opposed to the Tesco store though, are they?


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## Random (Apr 22, 2011)

Geri said:


> Not everyone in the area is opposed to the Tesco store though, are they?


 
Obviously some people are _very_ opposed. Never thought that local-foodists were rioting types before. Is there something else behind this?


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## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

I think is an element of inverted snobbery. Stokes Croft s perceived to be bohemian and left wing, and Tesco doesn't fit in with that.


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

smashed up tesco this morning http://twitpic.com/show/full/4nw7mz


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## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2011)

you lot went that spare over a tescos express? Fucking hell, what would happen if they tried to build a proper Tescos?


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

It's symbolic. It kicked off because of over a hundred riot plod trying to evict the squat at a time when a lot of people were out trying to enjoy themselves. It wasn't a very bohemian crowd at times, lots of local St Pauls youth out there.

I don't see why it's so wrong for local people to want to have a say over what goes on in their neighbourhood and we get annoyed when we're ignored and dismissed. It's symptomatic of a much, much wider issue


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## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

There's nothing wrong with people having a say - but what about the people who want it? The place was derelict, it's not as if there was a queue of people wanting to open something else instead.

I am no fan of Tesco, but I do shop there (most convenient supermarket for me) so I would feel like a hypocrite opposing it.


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

http://neurobonkers.com/?p=2509

blog about last night




			
				embree said:
			
		

> I don't see why it's so wrong for local people to want to have a say over what goes on in their neighbourhood and we get annoyed when we're ignored and dismissed. It's symptomatic of a much, much wider issue



hear, hear.


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Loads of places on Stokes Croft/Chelt Road are derelict - and get put back into community use again by local people. The people who want it - well there's one by the Bus Station and a Sainsburys by the Arches. They're about five minutes walk in either direction. We're not short on Tesco, we are short on community space/facilities. That's the point (or one of them).

But as I've said, it's a much, much wider issue. You'll hear a lot of lazy shit from various quarters about how it's just the students/trusties/squatters doing this. It isn't, there's a huge groundswell of feeling around here relating to gentrification (the Council wants to sell the Telepathic for more yuppie flats), the cuts, decreasing opportunities. Lots of working class anger out there last night, all ages, both genders, all races. They're not dumb either, they know where the symbols of their problems can be found and attacked.


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## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm sure there is a lot of anger about those things. I don't think it's about Tesco though, in most cases. Are you telling me that all the people rioting have never shopped in Tesco?


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

http://twitpic.com/photos/mr_hopkinson

pics from the morning after, twitpic isn't very good for browsing lots of pics though


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Not in the slightest. I am saying however that people rioting can see beyond which party happens to be fucking them over to a system that's doing it. They can also join the dots between Tesco moving in and the nearest squat being evicted shortly afterwards so BCC can sell it for housing they'll never be able to afford. They know what the thin of the wedge is and what will follow. As I say, it's symbolic but it's also right here in our street - if there were a Starbucks, McDs or a big four bank here I'm pretty sure they would have been done too. As it is, Tescos is the only available target here - the credit union, post office, cafes, take aways etc were completely untouched. There's a reason for that and I don't think it's helpful to suggest that having shopped in Tesco (or any big supermarket) means you can't find their activities in our area distasteful


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## OneStrike (Apr 22, 2011)

It's heartening to see a community taking a stand, i'm hugely suspicous of the police tactics and timing though.  Clearly they wanted a reaction to use for their own needs, but underestimated the strength of local feelings?


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> It's heartening to see a community taking a stand, i'm hugely suspicous of the police tactics and timing though.  Clearly they wanted a reaction to use for their own needs, but underestimated the strength of local feelings?


 
they twice abandoned the area in a coordinated retreat and allowed Tesco to be attacked. Cop car also left behind - deliberately or not?

I'm also getting increasingly fucked off reading sneering tweets from people who say they're local. Sorry if the working classes disgust you so much guys but it's you that's the problem, not us


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Having said all that, I think the majority of last night's events were due to an embarrassingly botched police operation. The timing of it was sus but the execution was just shambolic


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## ericjarvis (Apr 22, 2011)

My objection is to Tesco's policy of buying up large numbers of local shops and rebranding them. It's all part of the homogenisation of the high street, taking away variety and replacing everything with a limited range of branded retailers. Tescos can basically do this because they have sufficient resources to operate at a loss if they have to in order to force other retailers to the wall. It's the fatal flaw in the capitalist dream. If you don't carefully regulate the market it almost inevitably heads towards a monopoly, and the consumer LOSES choice as the largest companies force out and buy up their smaller competitors. Since our political parties are all in hock to the largest and most ruthless companies that are engaged in working towards monopoly the only sensible response is for the general public to start taking action to protect our choices.


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

I've got two Tescos within a five minute walk of my front door, I didn't need another. I do want to keep my other local shops though, especially because they're more likely to keep money circulating in the community rather than diverting profits to CEOs and shareholders who live anywhere but here.


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## stethoscope (Apr 22, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> My objection is to Tesco's policy of buying up large numbers of local shops and rebranding them. It's all part of the homogenisation of the high street, taking away variety and replacing everything with a limited range of branded retailers. Tescos can basically do this because they have sufficient resources to operate at a loss if they have to in order to force other retailers to the wall.


 
Yep.


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

This tweet sums it up:

"Community votes against new Tesco. Council approves. Compulsory purchase local landmark squat. Police evict. Kicks off."


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## kropotkin (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm fairly local-live about a mile away. I fail to be bothered about local versus multinational capitalists so am not very interested in tescos, but I'm happy to read about what happened last night for two reasons. 
One is the right of communities to make decisions about their areas (even if the underlying politics is not of interest to me), and the other is the demonstration of a generalising culture of resistance and militancy. That makes me happy- as it can spread.


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## Kid_Eternity (Apr 22, 2011)

Police apparently claiming it wasn't an eviction but am arrest attempt over an alleged petrol bomb...


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

'Potential' petrol bomb is the phrase they're using. So, empty bottles and a bit of rag then


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## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

Well, ,that isn't true because the timing of the eviction was common knowledge beforehand. People wouldn't have been privy to information about a planned arrest.


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm a bit confused about the sequence of events eviction wise. It was supposed to happen on Wednesday morning right?


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## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

I dunno, all I heard was that they were going to get evicted and people were going to go down and support them. Didn't pay much attention to the date and time as I have no interest in them at all.


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

There was a call out on indymedia for Wednesday am. Not sure what happened between then and last night. I'm interested in them because they're me neighbours and pretty decent ones as it goes


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## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

Well, tell them not to slag off normal people and call us slaves trapped in the system or whatever. There's nothing wrong with having a 9-5 job.


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

I don't think saying that sort of thing helps, no. otoh they also get subjected to loads of unwarranted and ill informed stuff so it cuts both ways


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## Random (Apr 22, 2011)

Geri said:


> Well, tell them not to slag off normal people and call us slaves trapped in the system or whatever. There's nothing wrong with having a 9-5 job.


 
you can have a job and still be against wage labour, just like you can shop at supermarkets and still be against tesco


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## Random (Apr 22, 2011)

kropotkin said:


> I fail to be bothered about local versus multinational capitalists so am not very interested in tescos, but I'm happy to read about what happened last night for two reasons.
> One is the right of communities to make decisions about their areas (even if the underlying politics is not of interest to me), and the other is the demonstration of a generalising culture of resistance and militancy. That makes me happy- as it can spread.


 
I share this embarrassingly doctrinaire communist view of events.


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

I think there's a danger of reading this as the action of groups/people whose aims we're not interested in. The bigger and far more important point is that a community was showing solidarity against state attacks, on the night and from a wider perspective. Community spirit around here is very strong amongst people who stay for longer than a few months and we're prepared to defend our own, even if they may be a bit twatish at times. That's the story as far as I'm concerned


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## stethoscope (Apr 22, 2011)

Geri said:


> Well, tell them not to slag off normal people and call us slaves trapped in the system or whatever. There's nothing wrong with having a 9-5 job.


 
But no one's really saying its wrong to have a 9-5, but the likes of Tesco aggressively move into areas, put other shops out of business, and in the end local people are worse off. Other than a few local jobs, what wider investment do the likes of Tesco really bring to an area? Profits journey away from the local community and into their shareholders pockets and the City.

If anything, local people end up being in need of Tesco for local employment and because there's no alternatives, effectively held to ransom by corporate muscle.

Communities need not only to defend against the likes of Tesco pushing their weight, but believe that there are alternatives, such as setting up co-operatives where investment is for the whole community.


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## kropotkin (Apr 22, 2011)

Random said:


> I share this embarrassingly doctrinaire communist view of events.


 
:-D


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## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

stephj said:


> But no one's really saying its wrong to have a 9-5,


 
Yes, the squatters were. They claimed that people who had 9-5 jobs were trapped in the system, and that squatting makes people free. It's arrogant and patronising to the vast majority of people.


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## kropotkin (Apr 22, 2011)

stephj said:


> But no one's really saying its wrong to have a 9-5, but the likes of Tesco aggressively move into areas, put other shops out of business, and in the end local people are worse off. Other than a few local jobs, what wider investment do the likes of Tesco really bring to an area? Profits journey away from the local community and into their shareholders pockets and the City.
> 
> If anything, local people end up being in need of Tesco for local employment and because there's no alternatives, effectively held to ransom by corporate muscle.


 
Support local capitalists! We demand that our exploiters live in Clifton or redland!


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## _angel_ (Apr 22, 2011)

stephj said:


> But no one's really saying its wrong to have a 9-5, but the likes of Tesco aggressively move into areas, put other shops out of business, and in the end local people are worse off. Other than a few local jobs, what wider investment do the likes of Tesco really bring to an area? Profits journey away from the local community and into their shareholders pockets and the City.
> 
> If anything, local people end up being in need of Tesco for local employment and because there's no alternatives, effectively held to ransom by corporate muscle.
> 
> Communities need not only to defend against the likes of Tesco pushing their weight, but believe that there are alternatives, such as setting up co-operatives where investment is for the whole community.


 
Oddly enough, the Tesco at Bramley centre, stopped the shopping centre dying on it's arse after the Morrisons closed. Now admittedly any big supermarket could have done that, but for about a year or two business after business folded when there was no "proper" supermarket and now they are opening up again. Obviously if they'd bulldozed the whole complex and put in a hypermarket I wouldn't have agreed, but opening a medium size store in that centre saved it from death.


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## stuff_it (Apr 22, 2011)




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## kropotkin (Apr 22, 2011)

Looks fun.


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## stethoscope (Apr 22, 2011)

kropotkin said:


> Support local capitalists! We demand that our exploiters live in Clifton or redland!


 
I was thinking more on the lines of community owned co-operatives, but get your point.


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## ericjarvis (Apr 22, 2011)

kropotkin said:


> Support local capitalists! We demand that our exploiters live in Clifton or redland!


 
I think there's a lot to be said for knowing where the people exploiting you live, and where their children go to school, etc etc.


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

That first video shows only a handful of people attacking the store. Believe me, the crowd behind (hundreds) were egging them on and cheering every blow. As I keep saying, it wasn't just the hippies/trusties either. Really wide range of people


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## stethoscope (Apr 22, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> Oddly enough, the Tesco at Bramley centre, stopped the shopping centre dying on it's arse after the Morrisons closed. Now admittedly any big supermarket could have done that, but for about a year or two business after business folded when there was no "proper" supermarket and now they are opening up again. Obviously if they'd bulldozed the whole complex and put in a hypermarket I wouldn't have agreed, but opening a medium size store in that centre saved it from death.


 
Well I know angel, and I accept that, especially where if it were not for a major chain coming in, they'd be nothing. It still worries me that such supermarkets even when they revive local areas, that their profits (from the hard work of local labour) mostly flows outside of that local area.


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

stephj said:


> Well I know angel, and I accept that, especially where if it were not for a major chain coming in, they'd be nothing. It still worries me that such supermarkets even when they revive local areas, that their profits (from the hard work of local labour) mostly flows outside of that local area.


 
Exactly


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 22, 2011)

strung out said:


> smashed up tesco this morning http://twitpic.com/show/full/4nw7mz


 
Closing down sale


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## Giles (Apr 22, 2011)

embree said:


> 'Potential' petrol bomb is the phrase they're using. So, empty bottles and a bit of rag then


 
If, anywhere around my house and garden shed, I am found to have:

a can of petrol
some empty bottles awaiting recycling
some bits of paper towel or cloth

can I be arrested for having "potential petrol bombs"?

Giles..


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## Libertad (Apr 22, 2011)

Giles said:


> If, anywhere around my house and garden shed, I am found to have:
> 
> a can of petrol
> some empty bottles awaiting recycling
> ...



Yes, Polis informed and on their way


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Giles said:


> If, anywhere around my house and garden shed, I am found to have:
> 
> a can of petrol
> some empty bottles awaiting recycling
> ...


 
Depends - are you occupying a building the Council are desperate to redevelop and simultaneously causing some embarrassment for the shiny new supermarket over the road? If yes, the Avon & Somerset Constabulary would be delighted to pay you a visit, mobbed up with their chums from Gwent


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathantaphouse/sets/72157626426693575/show/

Great photo's  - apparently he'd been at a wedding earlier so happened to have all his kit with him


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Stunning pics but he really should do some blurring of faces in one or two. In general there were far too many cameras around last night, people are incredibly thoughtless about this shit. Even saw people posing with rocks for their mates etc


----------



## BlackArab (Apr 22, 2011)

Riklet said:


> Someone is yelling on the live feed about a police van being 'abandoned'
> 
> ......here we go again.



The bait was taken


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 22, 2011)

Reading a few discussions about this it looks like we are already about to tread a depressingly familiar path in terms of the 'debate'.

Basically the perception of violence will be used to obscure the real issues.

So it goes. No violence: Ignored, fobbed off. Violence: Denounced and vilified.


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Reading a few discussions about this it looks like we are already about to tread a depressingly familiar path in terms of the 'debate'.
> 
> Basically the perception of violence will be used to obscure the real issues.
> 
> So it goes. No violence: Ignored, fobbed off. Violence: Denounced and vilified.



Already happening. Saw someone on twitter hysterically saying two years of campaigning against tesco have been 'wasted' by last night. As though another incident free evening on Stokes Croft would have brought a corporate free neighbourhood any closer ffs.

The liberals queue up to denounce those who have nothing left to lose.


----------



## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

embree said:


> Stunning pics but he really should do some blurring of faces in one or two. In general there were far too many cameras around last night, people are incredibly thoughtless about this shit. Even saw people posing with rocks for their mates etc


 
Yeah, I've suggested to him on twitter that he do that, I thought the same.  Can't believe ppl would pose with rocks etc. it's just silly.

Face blurred in this video though - nice high quality vid as well


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

There was a shouted conversation on Ashley Road this morning between a bloke filming his mate with a rock and another guy telling him to stop being so stupid. 'Oh these pics aren't going anywhere mate'. Yeah, just wait for the arrests to start...


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> Yeah, I've suggested to him on twitter that he do that, I thought the same.  Can't believe ppl would pose with rocks etc. it's just silly.
> 
> Face blurred in this video though - nice high quality vid as well




Good video that, gives a good sense of the sequence of events - well, some of them


----------



## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

embree said:


> Stunning pics but he really should do some blurring of faces in one or two. In general there were far too many cameras around last night, people are incredibly thoughtless about this shit. Even saw people posing with rocks for their mates etc


 
He's responded to me and others on twitter and has removed some of the photos  I haven't actually looked back at the set but he clearly knows why so I assume he'll ahve taken the ones down that identify anyone.


----------



## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

embree said:


> Good video that, gives a good sense of the sequence of events - well, some of them


 
cool.. never likely to get a single video or picture set that shows everything but for those of us who weren't there it's nice to know how representative what we are seeing is of what actually went on


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 22, 2011)

fair play rioters! hopefully we'll see a summer of things getting smashed up


----------



## TopCat (Apr 22, 2011)

Cops are now claiming "petrol bombs" rather than "potential" petrol bombs. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-13167041


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> cool.. never likely to get a single video or picture set that shows everything but for those of us who weren't there it's nice to know how representative what we are seeing is of what actually went on


 
You definitely have a feel for how events ebbed and flowed up and down Cheltenham Road/Stokes Croft, though a knowledge of local geography helps. Early on, that's the police trailer that was hitched to the 4WD being used to barricade Cheltenham Road. This was full of riot gear and you can see kiddies with shields etc a few seconds later. Further down the road some people were bringing a skip up, thought it was a shame that was left outside Tesco rather than being used to barricade the other side of Cheltenham Road to delay the return of the vans a few vital moments.


----------



## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

http://thecommune.co.uk/2011/04/22/the-first-funky-riot-in-bristol/

not read it yet but presume the funky bit is in reference to the saxamaphone


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> http://thecommune.co.uk/2011/04/22/the-first-funky-riot-in-bristol/
> 
> not read it yet but presume the funky bit is in reference to the saxamaphone


 
The flats by the Ashley Road junction were playing some proper shit music early on. I wandered up to have a peek at tesco (nothing doing, very early in the evening) and when I got back down someone had put on 'Unfinished Sympathy' and cranked up the volume. Then it all kicked off on Ashley Road


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

I so wish that I could have got a pic of the line of riot police facing down Stokes Croft directly beneath this at one stage last night:







Life imitating art...


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 22, 2011)

embree said:


> I so wish that I could have got a pic of the line of riot police facing down Stokes Croft directly beneath this at one stage last night:


 
you'll get your chance, i'm sure


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 22, 2011)

Substantive first hand account here, apols if we had this already.

http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/704197


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> http://thecommune.co.uk/2011/04/22/the-first-funky-riot-in-bristol/
> 
> not read it yet but presume the funky bit is in reference to the saxamaphone


 
That's very good and a good summary of the varied groups who live around here and who were all represented to some extent last night


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Substantive first hand account here, apols if we had this already.
> 
> http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/704197


 
There are some inaccuracies in that both in terms of events (eg there was only one abandoned cop vehicle) and also geography. He refers to 'Stokes Croft High Street' - Stokes Croft IS the name of the road. The areas in question are Kingsdown on the western side of the road and St  Pauls on the eastern side


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 22, 2011)

A Facebook Post giving some back story and retort to some predictable conservative critique:

I'm from there and I can tell you that literally every possible means of making it difficult for Tescos to succeed in ruining one of the most culturally exciting areas of Bristol has been pursued. From bombarding the council with thousands of letters, to squatting the property Tesco were planning on occupying. Since it has opened there have been regular cake stalls outside for non-customers providing information on why Tesco are so awful and why the small local business which it will ruin are better.

While it is true that it is a shame people choose to shop in supermarkets, you must admit we are not left with much choice. For example, within a mile or two of the Tescos we are discussing there are also: two other small Tesco stores and a huge one, two medium sized somerfield/co-ops, a co-op petrol station, two Sainsbury's, and a Spar. To give a bit of history to the Stokes Croft area, for years it was blighted by huge, empty buildings which were falling apart but which people were forbidden from doing anything with by their owners. There has also been a lot of homelessness, drug addiction problems in the area, too. The Bristol homeless medical service is right near by for a reason. However, a few years ago people began squatting some of these buildings, turning them into art galleries, dance and art studios, meeting spaces, cafes, and, of course, places to live. 

It is these groups who have run the anti-Tesco campaign. The "consultation" process was a sham. I have to agree with Steve, that it the nature of these things. Tesco look set to threaten and corrupt what has been one of the most exciting, well-meaning and beautiful community projects I've seen. Check it out: http://www.prsc.org.uk/

The police have always sided with Tesco throughout the campaign. Finally, they tried to break in to one of the squats nearby and people got understandably pissed off, particularly since in the confusion it was not clear what was going on.(What do the police expect when they turn up in droves to kick people out of their homes?) As far as I can tell very little of the property of innocent people has been damaged, unless we think Tesco are innocent. Violence is always a shame, but in thise case, as usual where the police are involved, it was not one sided. It must also be seen in the context of a wider attack on innocent people, not by rioters but by police-and-state-backed-corporations.


----------



## Divisive Cotton (Apr 22, 2011)

Why were they trying to clear the place at 9pm in the evening? They usually do it first thing in the morning


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Best analysis so far and pretty much spot on with regard to the sequence of events I witnessed here


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> A Facebook Post giving some back story and retort to some predictable conservative critique:
> 
> I'm from there and I can tell you that literally every possible means of making it difficult for Tescos to succeed in ruining one of the most culturally exciting areas of Bristol has been pursued. From bombarding the council with thousands of letters, to squatting the property Tesco were planning on occupying. Since it has opened there have been regular cake stalls outside for non-customers providing information on why Tesco are so awful and why the small local business which it will ruin are better.
> 
> ...


 
Excellent summary, both of the character of the area and the No Tesco campaign from start to its current position


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Another small point that needs to be made to those who don't know the area - Stokes Croft lies at the bottom of one of the main routes into the city centre from the affluent northern suburbs. Literally thousands of people will commute in and out of the city every day through Stokes Croft meaning that the area is crucial to many people's image of the city. Currently this means they see an area which is simultaneously scruffy and down at heel but also full of a life and community spirit which is not in tune with the way the city fathers would like people to view Bristol. The sanitisation of the area is an issue which has troubled planners for years. It looks very much to me as though those sanitisation efforts have just been cranked up a few notches.


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Although I have several issues with what is reported in The Guardian (not least the continuing focus on Tesco and Tesco alone being the cause of the riot), I am somewhat relieved at what Claire Milne from the No Tesco campaign is quoted as saying:



> "Our campaign has been peaceful but we have been telling the police and the council that if they go ahead and open [the supermarket] this is what will happen. Our community is well known for having people who if they are silenced will act in a way that will ensure they will be heard."



Not exactly an endorsement, but given the pressure that's usually heaped on to condemn events like these, it's a pleasant surprise to find what amounts to a shrug of the shoulders and a 'told you so'


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 22, 2011)

embree said:


> I hate you, you fucking worthless shit. Your lot are going to get fucking destroyed around here in two weeks and good fucking riddance. Fuck off pontificating about my back yard you wanker


 
You need to stop equivocating, and say what you actually mean!


----------



## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

embree said:


> Another small point that needs to be made to those who don't know the area - Stokes Croft lies at the bottom of one of the main routes into the city centre from the affluent northern suburbs. Literally thousands of people will commute in and out of the city every day through Stokes Croft meaning that the area is crucial to many people's image of the city. Currently this means they see an area which is simultaneously scruffy and down at heel but also full of a life and community spirit which is not in tune with the way the city fathers would like people to view Bristol. The sanitisation of the area is an issue which has troubled planners for years. It looks very much to me as though those sanitisation efforts have just been cranked up a few notches.



Yeah, I'm not from Bristol but plenty of friends from/live there and Stokes Croft is somewhere I know from walking through it and eating around there with my friends.. very much a place I felt made Bristol feel like somewhere I might want to live if I ever felt like I needed to get out of brum.


----------



## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

That bloke from the PRSC is a moron. He can't even spell the name of his own area. "Welcome to Stoke's Croft" - what a twat.


----------



## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

http://foolishfires.tumblr.com/post/4835013618

another account, seems similar in tone to that facebook one that Taffboy posted up


----------



## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

Fucks sake! He's the prick whose Mighty Banana van is always blocking the cycle lane on Jamaica Street. Always wondered why it never gets a ticket.


----------



## Thora (Apr 22, 2011)

Divisive Cotton said:


> Why were they trying to clear the place at 9pm in the evening? They usually do it first thing in the morning


 
It was certainly a well executed squat eviction wasn't it


----------



## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)




----------



## ddraig (Apr 22, 2011)

lovely comments here
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...-targeted/article-3479322-detail/article.html

are you DogWalker Geri?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 22, 2011)

Via Twitter - Interviewing chief constable of A&S police. I wonder if he saw the sign? 

http://twitpic.com/4nz90a


----------



## JHE (Apr 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> The tesco opened last friday apparently, against the wishes of local residents.


 
All local residents, many local residents or just some rather odd local residents and their chums from Montpelier? Is there any reason to think the opponents of Tesco are representative of people in the area?

It would be good to have more democracy in planning decisions - perhaps by means of referendum in the relevant ward or wards.  



BigTom said:


> http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...-continue/article-3474865-detail/article.html some background on the squat eviction


 
From that article:

*Roger Cole, who ran an organic food shop in Stokes Croft, said: "A lot of people feel we should protest until Tesco goes away. This campaign is already costing Tesco a fortune coming here in the teeth of such opposition, and hopefully sooner or later they will get fed up."*

Ah, a petit bourgeois purveyor of crank food fails to compete effectively against a large company and so turns to vandalism as a business strategy!  Great!



There's another Tesco Express opening soon just five minutes from where I live.  I notice it every day on my way to work.  When I see it I don't feel like those young rioters on Stokes Croft.  On the contrary, I think:  (i) some much-needed jobs will be created, (ii) it's good that the building which was empty and delapidated is now being done up and used and (iii) I bet the prices will be better in Tesco Express than in the mini-markets on the same road against which the new Tesco Express will be competing.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 22, 2011)

Fantastic - Laurie Penny is writing about this for the New Statesman


----------



## ddraig (Apr 22, 2011)

you area dick too JHE


----------



## agricola (Apr 22, 2011)

JHE said:


> There's another Tesco Express opening soon just five minutes from where I live.  I notice it every day on my way to work.  When I see it I don't feel like those young rioters on Stokes Croft.  On the contrary, I think:  (i) some much-needed jobs will be created, (ii) it's good that the building which was empty and delapidated is now being done up and used and (iii) I bet the prices will be better in Tesco Express than in the mini-markets on the same road against which the new Tesco Express will be competing.



It does amaze me how many people who might describe themselves as capitalists are in favour of what Tesco have been doing these past ten years, which is a pretty obvious and rather evil attack on various types of  small businesses up and down the country, using the advantages that their size, their tax avoidance and the capacity they have to "influence" local and national (and even international) politics and politicians, allows them to get away with.  

Lets face it, the people who will directly lose out by that store opening (and others like it) are the people who are actually working hard, running their own businesses, actually creating local jobs in the community, trying to better themselves - in short doing everything that this coalition insists we should all be doing more of, if only we werent all smackhead fatties drinking tins of special brew.


----------



## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Fantastic - Laurie Penny is writing about this for the New Statesman


 
Maybe she was there with Kerry McCarthy.


----------



## cantsin (Apr 22, 2011)

JHE said:


> All local residents, many local residents or just some rather odd local residents and their chums from Montpelier? Is there any reason to think the opponents of Tesco are representative of people in the area?
> 
> It would be good to have more democracy in planning decisions - perhaps by means of referendum in the relevant ward or wards.
> 
> ...


 
glad to see you massively missing the point as ever


----------



## JHE (Apr 22, 2011)

The companies against which Tesco will be competing around here, apart from other big retailers like ASDA, are the overgrown corner shops sometimes called mini-markets.  If any of them fail as a result of the creation of the new Tesco there will probably still be a net gain in jobs and, though I don't suppose Tesco is a great employer, I doubt it is as bad as the crooks who run the mini-market competition.

It is rather sad that more than a century and a half after the Communist Manifesto was published some would-be socialists still haven't learned not to devote themselves to the interests of small businessmen.  Where are the Marxists when they are needed to point out the petit bourgois nature of this anti-big supermarket stuff?


----------



## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

JHE said:


> All local residents, many local residents or just some rather odd local residents and their chums from Montpelier? Is there any reason to think the opponents of Tesco are representative of people in the area?
> 
> It would be good to have more democracy in planning decisions - perhaps by means of referendum in the relevant ward or wards.



http://bristol.indymedia.org.uk/article/702451

Letter here says that there were 2,500 complaints and in a survey 93% said they didn't want tescos.  Now I've got no idea about the provenance of said survey and I've not dug around on the PRSC site to try to find out more because I can't be arsed.
Somewhere else saw that the planning committee voted 3-3 and the chair got the casting vote noted that there would probably be an appeal and BCC would have to pay the costs for that, and then voted for tesco....

I'm not from Bristol, I don't live there.  My feeling from the times I went down to see friends who do live there was that it was pretty well all the residents of Stokes Croft and beyond, the general feeling was that there was no need for a tescos there as there were already two near by, and a sainsburies down the road, that Stokes Croft is being gentrified and in doing so will lose what makes it an asset to Bristol, the tescos site was squatted with a social centre so it was being used before tesco moved in.

I was well aware of the campaign to stop tesco - which ran for two years I think - even though my connections with that area are pretty loose.



> t. On the contrary, I think: (i) some much-needed jobs will be created, (ii) it's good that the building which was empty and delapidated is now being done up and used and (iii) I bet the prices will be better in Tesco Express than in the mini-markets on the same road against which the new Tesco Express will be competing.



On the thing about jobs, tesco (and indeed supermarkets generally) cost more jobs than they create and move money out of the local economy..

re: jobs:



> 9) Tesco are not a net creator of jobs. Because they aggressively force local shops out of business, and then provide the minimal possible service to customers, on average, every time a large supermarket opens, 276 jobs are lost.



re: prices:


> 5) The New Economics Foundation have shown that fresh fruit and veg is, on average, 30% cheaper at a street market than it is in a supermarket. However, through short term aggressive pricing when they first move into an area, Tesco often shuts down these markets, reducing access to fresh fruit and veg for the poorest.



from http://brightgreenscotland.org/index.php/2011/04/10-facts-about-tesco/

My browser is giving me grief trying to open the PDF sources that are linked to in that article


----------



## cantsin (Apr 22, 2011)

JHE said:


> The companies against which Tesco will be competing around here, apart from other big retailers like ASDA, are the overgrown corner shops sometimes called mini-markets.  If any of them fail as a result of the creation of the new Tesco there will probably still be a net gain in jobs and, though I don't suppose Tesco is a great employer, I doubt it is as bad as the crooks who run the mini-market competition.
> 
> It is rather sad that more than a century and a half after the Communist Manifesto was published some would-be socialists still haven't learned not to devote themselves to the interests of small businessmen.  Where are the Marxists when they are needed to point out the petit bourgois nature of this anti-big supermarket stuff?


 
are you_ pretending _to think that this thread was in any way a 'pro-small business' orientated one, or are you just plain daft ?


----------



## ericjarvis (Apr 22, 2011)

So far as I am aware not one single Tesco Express that I know of replaced an empty shop, they were ALL independent shops that Tesco bought up. I'm sure they have built some on empty sites, but it doesn't seem to be the norm. So what actually happens in most cases is that NO jobs are created. No new resources come into the local community. However the choices of local people are reduced still further.

Judging by much of the comment elseweb on this there seem to be a huge number of people who basically condemn anyone who differs from them in any way, and who would be perfectly happy with no choice at all provided everything they see is branded with a logo they recognise from TV, and nobody is asking them to do anything difficult such as thinking.


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## ericjarvis (Apr 22, 2011)

Giles said:


> If, anywhere around my house and garden shed, I am found to have:
> 
> a can of petrol
> some empty bottles awaiting recycling
> ...


 
Of course, but it can happen even if you don't have the petrol, or the bottles, or the bits of paper towel or cloth.


----------



## JHE (Apr 22, 2011)

Defence of small businesses against the big bad supermarkets is plainly petit bourgois politics.

Some people, of course, don't give a shit about that issue, but are upset about some squatters being evicted - which has nothing to do with Tescos.

Of course, some are just keen on riots.  Riots are fun, I suppose.


----------



## JHE (Apr 22, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> So far as I am aware not one single Tesco Express that I know of replaced an empty shop, they were ALL independent shops that Tesco bought up.


 
See Alfreton Road, NG7

There are loads and loads of empty commercial premises in Nottingham.  Alfreton Road has more than its fair share.  Tesco is currently doing up one place there.  I'm not sure what it was before it last closed down, but I think it might have been a car dealership.


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## agricola (Apr 22, 2011)

JHE said:


> Defence of small businesses against the big bad supermarkets is plainly petit bourgois politics.


 
It isnt - small businesses usually employ more people than a Tescos will do in replacing them, they pay more in tax (or rather avoid tax less) and dont usually seek to use their size to intimidate journalists and politicians into going along with what they are up to.


----------



## cantsin (Apr 22, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> fair play rioters! hopefully we'll see a summer of things getting smashed up


 
_"ba-a-a-ands won't play no more...."_


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 22, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Fantastic - Laurie Penny is writing about this for the New Statesman


 
And here it is - http://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/laurie-penny/2011/04/stokes-croft-police-tesco


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 22, 2011)

That's actually not a bad piece as it goes. A little breathless and you can tell she was 200 miles away but still better than the crap that has been printed elsewhere, which is basically Avon And Somerset plods press releases. 

(Of course, that doesn't deal with how and why she gets yo write something rather than someone else)


----------



## Ground Elder (Apr 22, 2011)

Did anyone actually tear up the cobblestones and if they did was there a beach underneath?


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

went by earlier. the squat is still occupied as far as i could see. police forensics were out dusting for fingerprints on the smashed windows. shame to see the bike shop next door had a window smashed too.


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## JHE (Apr 22, 2011)

An interview with a spokesman for the 'People's Republic of Stokes Croft' has just been broadcast on Radio 4.  What a stream of cant!  "Street art... vibrant... diverse..." 

He disowned the riot, though.  Smashing things up is not the way, apparently.


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## JHE (Apr 22, 2011)

strung out said:


> shame to see the bike shop next door had a window smashed too.


 
... but it's not a shame when supermarkets, coffee shops and burger restaurants get smashed up?


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

no


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

http://bristolaf.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/the-battle-of-stokes-croft/

Bristol Anarchist Federation writeup


----------



## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

strung out said:


> shame to see the bike shop next door had a window smashed too.


 
I wonder if it was an accident, or because he supported the opening of Tesco?


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 22, 2011)

Geri said:


> I wonder if it was an accident, or because he supported the opening of Tesco?


 
Probably more to do with pissed up yoot?


----------



## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Probably more to do with pissed up yoot?


 
Not being able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo, you mean?


----------



## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Probably more to do with pissed up yoot?


 
yeah that. apparently he was told to stop doing it pretty sharpish by everyone else. there was someone (dunno if they were representing anyone) going around the crowd this afternoon rattling a tin to pay for broken windows of other shops.


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 22, 2011)

Geri said:


> Not being able to hit a cow's arse with a banjo, you mean?


 
Summat like that


----------



## where to (Apr 22, 2011)

it would have been illegal for the Council to refuse planning permission for this shop on the grounds that they don't like the firm that will operate it.

of all the things to riot over this one really has me puzzled. i wonder how Cameron feels about this.  good distraction i'd of thought.

will it kick off again tonight now?  either the cops protect the store and risk getting rounded on or they leave it and it gets attacked again.  this will run on throughout the weekend i'd of thought.  would be interested in the local views on that.


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

i don't think the legal argument over the planning case consisted of 'we don't like tesco'. it was slightly more complicated than that.


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## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

Quick - ITV news in a minute


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/22/bristol-riot-tesco

JHE - this article from a local says 96% of a survey of 700 people opposed tescos.  I'd say that is a fairly broad local opposition comprising of most people.  I don't know how many people live in and close to stokes croft though.

Weltweit- I know fuck all about planning but do the wishes of local residences not need to be taken into account? Do you not think that the people who actually live in an area where something is going to happen should be able to say we don't want it hear, and have their voices listened to. 2,500 complaints against tescos..


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

People who are still banging on about this being a 'Tesco riot' - have you actually read a damn thing I've had to say about this? At all? THERE'S MORE TO IT THAN BLOODY TESCO


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## where to (Apr 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> I know fuck all about planning but do the wishes of local residences not need to be taken into account?


 
in a word, no.  a petition of 5000 is given zero consideration if the arguments it is based on are not relevant in planning terms.  one person's letter raising salient planning-relevant points is far more powerful.  that's the way things are at present in planning but funnily enough I think the Tories are trying to change that in England to allow more middle class nimbyism.

the actual Councillors (who I assume made the final decision here, based upon the Council Officer's recommendation for approval in all likelihood) would have been in a better position to refuse on more dubious grounds though (i.e. found an excuse to refuse.  and it surprises me that they didn't).  

worth remembering too that the planning permission wasn't granted for a Tesco Express, but simply for a medium sized shop (albeit one with Tesco Express signage).


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## flutterbye (Apr 22, 2011)

Well done Bristol,


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## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

C4 news got it completely wrong.


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

where to said:


> in a word, no.  a petition of 5000 is given zero consideration if the arguments it is based on are not relevant in planning terms.  one person's letter raising salient planning-relevant points is far more powerful.  that's the way things are at present in planning but funnily enough I think the Tories are trying to change that in England to allow more middle class nimbyism.
> 
> the actual Councillors (who I assume made the final decision here, based upon the Council Officer's recommendation for approval in all likelihood) would have been in a better position to refuse on more dubious grounds though (i.e. found an excuse to refuse.  and it surprises me that they didn't).
> 
> worth remembering too that the planning permission wasn't granted for a Tesco Express, but simply for a medium sized shop (albeit one with Tesco Express signage).


 
That's pretty dissapointing tbh, but I've replied to planning applications with objections on the basis that those objections would have some relevance - this was for change of usage of a premises to being a takeaway food outlet though and the objections were on the basis of extra traffic, no need for more food outlets around us and not really health and safety (but can't remember the proper term) wrt attracting more rats/foxes etc.. 

iirc the vote on the application was 3-3 with the chair casting the deciding vote in favour and noting that if it went against tesco would appeal and this would cost BCC in legal fees..
So it's not at all clear cut and the balance may have been tipped by the thought that tescos might win on appeal and the possible cost for the council of that happening.




			
				embree said:
			
		

> People who are still banging on about this being a 'Tesco riot' - have you actually read a damn thing I've had to say about this? At all? THERE'S MORE TO IT THAN BLOODY TESCO



^^this is a local person talking. Listen to them.. 
But unfortunately embree you're going to have to work hard to get the tesco line out of peoples heads and connect them to issues of gentrification and the loss of Stokes Croft & the lack of local democracy which are the wider issues I'm hearing - plus of course the defence of the squat by local residents of both Stokes Croft and St Pauls.


----------



## Libertad (Apr 22, 2011)

cantsin said:


> _"ba-a-a-ands won't play no more...."_



No, I think it was too much fighting on the dance floor.


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Sometimes I think it's hard enough trying to make people in other parts of Bristol aware of the issues we're facing here let alone anywhere else. Ultimately I can see attitudes hardening to 'bollocks to anyone else, we're sticking with each other on this one'. Seeing my community slagged off in various ways as either a 'crime ridden hell hole' or a trustifarian paradise rather than somewhere with complex local issues, a lot of vulnerable people but a fierce community spirit is difficult. I don't give a shit what people in Redland or Cotham think tbh, again they're part of our problem.


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Geri said:


> C4 news got it completely wrong.


 
what was their angle? or was it just basic facts they fucked up?


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Geri said:


> That bloke from the PRSC is a moron. He can't even spell the name of his own area. "Welcome to Stoke's Croft" - what a twat.


 
I like a lot of the stuff he and his project contribute to the area and he does at least engage with something beyond the arty stuff. But he's also representative of a certain type that gives SC a worse reputation in my eyes than the crime/poverty stereotype ie the trustafarian wanker one which clearly gets under your skin. I do see where you're coming from on that.

otoh, I'm prepared to go with it from a community pov. Better than the 'young professionals' slumming it for a year or two before leaving and slagging off the people they lived alongside. Seen a lot of them on twitter and elsewhere today, usually saying 'I used to live there [so therefore I am an authority on what's going on there now] but think the poor people should be cleansed from the area now'. I paraphrase. But not much.


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

So, Stokes Croft is open again, tidy up operation completed - I think they were even retarmacing the road where the barricades had burnt into it. Forensics have been all over the supermarket today according to the net whilst the squat itself has been allowed to continue with no police investigations of the building at all - despite it supposedly being at the centre of a terrorist plot yesterday. Darkness is falling, police presence at this end of the road is seemingly low key, just the usual patrol cars heading into St Pauls for a drive around. Not sure how it is up by Cheltenham Road tbh, been sleeping most of the afternoon!

We'll see what happens from here on. Expect further problems around planned evictions for other key squats in the area, Classic's and the Emporium are currently being persued by their Hong Kong based building owners. Going on last night's performance, I wouldn't be entirely shocked if the cops decided to launch raids of these places to coincide with the Anarchist Bookfair in two weeks or maybe St Pauls Carnival. Just to keep it low key like...


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/oli-conner/observing-stokes-croft-riot

blog from another local eyewitness


----------



## Geri (Apr 22, 2011)

embree said:


> what was their angle? or was it just basic facts they fucked up?


 
They said the riot was because Tesco had opened, the squat was "set up" by people opposed to Tesco and it was a Tesco Metro!


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 22, 2011)

Radio 4 earlier said "Tesco was petrol-bombed" 

Bank holiday weekend, key staff on leave ?


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Geri said:


> They said the riot was because Tesco had opened, the squat was "set up" by people opposed to Tesco and it was a Tesco Metro!


 


gentlegreen said:


> Radio 4 earlier said "Tesco was petrol-bombed"
> 
> Bank holiday weekend, key staff on leave ?



Oh ffs 

Telepathic has been occupied for over two years, since before the Tesco application anyway. And these petrol bombs are becoming the Bristol equivalent of snooker balls and ammonia filled light bulbs


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

I'm now getting more of a sense of the early stages of last night - Bristol AFed's report mentions the clearing of the Tesco protest at around 8pm before the eviction attempt. Now, this demo has been effectively a trestle table, petition, free cake, music, arguments against Tesco etc. It's been pretty effective at keeping Tesco empty but also not intimidating in the slightest from what I've seen. Clearing this protest off the pavement outside the shop, a protest with an awful lot of local support around St Pauls, Kingsdown and Montpellier, meant that even more people were showing up in the area to defend the demo just as the eviction attempt was happening. Major tactical blunder by the police


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

i could be completely wrong here, but it sounds like they tried evicting the squat, it all went a bit wrong, so they've tried covering it up by fabricating some reports about acting on intelligence over petrol bombs. as things stand, the squat remains in place and those arrested will be released fairly soon, with petrol bombs never mentioned again?

how plausible does that sound?


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkingdom/oli-conner/observing-stokes-croft-riot
> 
> blog from another local eyewitness


 


> One 17 year old had gone to take photos of the riots but had been one of the people that tripped over the barricades as the police moved forward. Whilst on the floor he had been hit with a baton across the face and on the back of his head - he had a large bloody wound on the back of his head and his face was blue and swollen.
> 
> Another man had been bitten by a police dog gone mad. Neither of us could understand why they would ever use dogs in a situation as confusing and disorientating as a riot - and why they would bring them to a raid in the first place. One man who had been clubbed around the head couldn't stop repeating the fact he had just been popping out to the shops to buy some coconut milk. Another had a foot that looked totally broken. The cause - a police van driving over him.
> 
> Tesco was the spark for the riot but at its roots is the problem of people not being heard. It was also about the police's over-whelming deployment of force. Bringing a small army into an area when it’s at its busiest is, in my view, an incitement to riot - and from what I observed last night, that's exactly what the police wanted.



Spot on


----------



## Graham Beecroft (Apr 22, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> Oddly enough, the Tesco at Bramley centre, stopped the shopping centre dying on it's arse after the Morrisons closed. Now admittedly any big supermarket could have done that, but for about a year or two business after business folded when there was no "proper" supermarket and now they are opening up again. Obviously if they'd bulldozed the whole complex and put in a hypermarket I wouldn't have agreed, but opening a medium size store in that centre saved it from death.



"Tesco has been accused of secretly buying a rundown Scottish shopping centre and allowing it to become derelict so that it would win planning permission for a brand new superstore to replace it."

http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=513326&in_page_id=2


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

strung out said:


> i could be completely wrong here, but it sounds like they tried evicting the squat, it all went a bit wrong, so they've tried covering it up by fabricating some reports about acting on intelligence over petrol bombs. as things stand, the squat remains in place and those arrested will be released fairly soon, with petrol bombs never mentioned again?
> 
> how plausible does that sound?



Can't see plod wanting a consequence free (for us) ending. They'll want convictions to justify their actions. Someone else has pointed out to me that the other local squats are vulnerable now, they'll go for easy wins by going for the local solidarity networks and trying to cripple one partiularly strong aspect of our community organising.It's up to us to defend them


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

oh yeah, i don't think the squat will be left alone completely, but for now, i can't see them risking a repeat of last night anytime soon without planning it a whole lot better.


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

They'll do it piecemeal and in the day time and not on a bank holiday weekend. And possibly not even in the summertime


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## Gerry1time (Apr 22, 2011)

Had a wander round that area this evening too. Bumped into a mate who'd been in the thick of it til 5am, he was buzzing. He hadn't got involved in anything violent, not his style, but had seen what went on. Apparently it seems the looting from Tesco's has been played down so far, lots went missing out the back he said.

I checked all the places where the cobble stones are round there, and didn't see a single one ripped up, so that sounds like a bit of poetic license on the part of the new statesman. 

Everyone seemed in a pretty good mood round there tbh, the pubs were full and it almost seemed like the community felt closer together as a result of what had happened. 

Sounds like there's a chopper up on patrol again tonight though.


----------



## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

yeah, there were an awful lot of people laughing and talking around the area this afternoon. the thing most people were agreed on was "these are our streets and we won't be told what to do by the council, the police or anyone"


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

ian bone's take on it... http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2011/04/22/squatter-riot-in-bristol/


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Gerry1time said:


> Had a wander round that area this evening too. Bumped into a mate who'd been in the thick of it til 5am, he was buzzing. He hadn't got involved in anything violent, not his style, but had seen what went on. Apparently it seems the looting from Tesco's has been played down so far, lots went missing out the back he said.


 
Interesting. There were definitely plenty of free fags being dished out last night, a few other goodies. I saw the shutter being raised a bit but didn't know whether anyone had got in through the small gap. Saw one guy taking a fearful beating when he was caught by the cops trying to crawl out of the store after their second comeback of the night.



> I checked all the places where the cobble stones are round there, and didn't see a single one ripped up, so that sounds like a bit of poetic license on the part of the new statesman.



quelle surprise. Accounts I read said the lot backed into Picton Street were the more hippyish of the demonstrators so not surprised there wasn't much missile hunting round there. Saw plenty of rock breaking elsewhere though, amazing the amount of readily available building materials in the area 



> Everyone seemed in a pretty good mood round there tbh, the pubs were full and it almost seemed like the community felt closer together as a result of what had happened.



Just been out for a wander myself. Tesco is completely boarded up now, glazers just finishing the job. Even the sign is boarded over. Telepathic squat is very visibly defended, knots of people on both sides of Cheltenham Road there. Cops stationed in pairs outside Tesco and at the Ashley Road junction, saw another pair patrolling. Two vans parked near Bath Buildings and at least one other van patrolling. Atmosphere is hyped but relaxed iyswim - people feeling like they've made a point as to who runs this area


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## Gerry1time (Apr 22, 2011)

I love this photo so much. Someone's been going round painting eyes on the grit bins round here for ages, making them into faces. It must have been pure chance that this one was nearby to be used as part of the barricade, but it's so appropriate.

Poor thing...


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

Truth, Reason, Liberty: The Battle of Stokes Croft http://bit.ly/fnWQBk

Liverpool anarchist blog's take on it, only skim read it but looks like one of the more interesting in terms of analysis from someone not involved, TRL is usually decent


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## suburbia (Apr 22, 2011)

If the police were acting on intelligence regarding petrol bombs, where was the fire service?


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

suburbia said:


> If the police were acting on intelligence regarding petrol bombs, where was the fire service?


 
good point, didn't see them until around 5am when I was on my way home


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## Ground Elder (Apr 22, 2011)

> I checked all the places where the cobble stones are round there, and didn't see a single one ripped up, so that sounds like a bit of poetic license on the part of the new statesman.


Or maybe the source was a mischievous tweet


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

BigTom said:


> Truth, Reason, Liberty: The Battle of Stokes Croft http://bit.ly/fnWQBk
> 
> Liverpool anarchist blog's take on it, only skim read it but looks like one of the more interesting in terms of analysis from someone not involved, TRL is usually decent


 
That's been c&p'd from Bristol Indymedia to be fair. It is a good analysis though


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## BigTom (Apr 22, 2011)

Yeah I just realised the report was from Indymedia, I missed that.  Surprises me that it'd just get c+p'd though, if I had a blog I wouldn't do that, I'd probably put a post up with something along the lines of Ian Bone, ie: a little bit of my thoughts on what it means/implications and a load of links to blogs/photos/videos from people who were actually there.. Even though it's linked to the indymedia source and there's no copyright issues it doesn't seem the way to do things for me.


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## shagnasty (Apr 22, 2011)

The coppers saying they went in to the squat because of the threat to tesco was a complete failure ,after seeing the state of the metro store.I don't know this area but there seems to be a lot of anger towards tesco.


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

Point of order - it's not a Metro, it's a Tesco Extra

_was_ a Tesco Extra


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## agricola (Apr 22, 2011)

suburbia said:


> If the police were acting on intelligence regarding petrol bombs, where was the fire service?


 
Where they would be expected to be - in the fire station; the raid was (according to the superintendent on the BBC during the day) aimed at disrupting a planned attack, not to respond to something that had already happened.


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

surely the fire brigade would have had to be present for the removal of 'petrol bombs'? just speculating here obviously, don't actually know much about how dangerous petrol bombs are.


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## DrRingDing (Apr 22, 2011)

Yea, but is it kicking off tonight?


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

apparently not. the squat is still in place though from what i can make out


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## Gerry1time (Apr 22, 2011)

embree said:


> Point of order - it's not a Metro, it's a Tesco Extra
> 
> _was_ a Tesco Extra


 
It was a Tesco Express, akshully


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## agricola (Apr 22, 2011)

strung out said:


> surely the fire brigade would have had to be present for the removal of 'petrol bombs'? just speculating here obviously, don't actually know much about how dangerous petrol bombs are.


 
not really, given what a petrol bomb usually comprises of, the disposal of them is not really something that they would deal with - except in France, where if I recall their firemen threw some at the CRS a few years back.


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## strung out (Apr 22, 2011)

fair enough


----------



## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

strung out said:


> surely the fire brigade would have had to be present for the removal of 'petrol bombs'? just speculating here obviously, don't actually know much about how dangerous petrol bombs are.



Depends whether they're lit or not  Someone's made the point on Indymedia that it'd be sheer madness to be stockpiling petrol bombs in there at a time when the bailiffs are trying to evict them. They'd be fucked.



DrRingDing said:


> Yea, but is it kicking off tonight?


 
Fairly normal Friday night out there. It's noisy and a bit nuts but that's fairly normal tbh



Gerry1time said:


> It was a Tesco Express, akshully


 
Fucking _knew_ I'd got that wrong!


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## embree (Apr 22, 2011)

strung out said:


> fair enough


 
yeah, the fire brigade chucking petrol bombs at the riot police is fair enough. I endorse this


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## suburbia (Apr 23, 2011)

agricola said:


> Where they would be expected to be - in the fire station; the raid was (according to the superintendent on the BBC during the day) aimed at disrupting a planned attack, not to respond to something that had already happened.



If there was a raid aimed at intercepting explosive material on my road, I'd find the presence of an appropriate fire appliance far more reassuring than an extra police draft, but each to their own.


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## embree (Apr 23, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> That's actually not a bad piece as it goes. A little breathless and you can tell she was 200 miles away but still better than the crap that has been printed elsewhere, which is basically Avon And Somerset plods press releases.
> 
> (Of course, that doesn't deal with how and why she gets yo write something rather than someone else)


 
Finally got round to reading it and I agree. Pretty accurate stuff, speaking as someone who was present throughout, so she's clearly given priority to just reporting other people's eye witness accounts in a readable way. Good stuff on the wider community stuff beyond just Tesco. She does surprise me


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## bingiman (Apr 23, 2011)

It is all so predictable especially with a royal wedding coming up.  Anarchists are the flavour of the month.  

Leave an 'abandoned' van to be trashed for the mainstream news. Build the case for investment in the police not cuts. It is so blatant it is tawdry. 

Tesco destroys localism and whether capitalist or not that is all we have left.  I have no worries with a few trashed windows but I wouldn't want to see anyone hurt.

But people are still stupid. Everything is on the internet and drawing attention to pictures, whether redcacted later or not misses the point that everything is still available to the authorities. 

Superglue in the locks in the middle of the night is surely the way to go.  The most pure social media in the world.


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## embree (Apr 23, 2011)

To be fair I'm not now sure that car was abandoned deliberately. They hared out of the area very quickly in response to effectively ending up surrounded and losing control. I think it was a very hurried withdrawal to regroup and the car did get forgotten about.

atm I'm focused on the immediate consequences for my community so as far as winning people around to arguments is concerned fuck it - we'll do what we need to to defend ourselves. The approval of the rest of the world can wait


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## agricola (Apr 23, 2011)

suburbia said:


> If there was a raid aimed at intercepting explosive material on my road, I'd find the presence of an appropriate fire appliance far more reassuring than an extra police draft, but each to their own.


 
you do know what petrol bombs are usually made of, right?


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## bingiman (Apr 23, 2011)

agricola said:


> you do know what petrol bombs are usually made of, right?


 
I am suprised no one is complaining about the price of petrol bombs...


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## bingiman (Apr 23, 2011)

embree said:


> atm I'm focused on the immediate consequences for my community so as far as winning people around to arguments is concerned fuck it - we'll do what we need to to defend ourselves. The approval of the rest of the world can wait


 
I agree with 99% but don't forget the world, you are part of it. As am I.


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## embree (Apr 23, 2011)

Of course. But we need to be able to control our bit of it before we do the rest. I think we drew a line in the sand last night


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## bingiman (Apr 23, 2011)

embree said:


> control our bit of it before we do the rest. I think we drew a line in the sand last night



which is always a good thing.


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## Streathamite (Apr 23, 2011)

JHE said:


> All local residents, many local residents or just some rather odd local residents and their chums from Montpelier? Is there any reason to think the opponents of Tesco are representative of people in the area?
> 
> It would be good to have more democracy in planning decisions - perhaps by means of referendum in the relevant ward or wards.
> 
> ...


don't forget to renew your Monday Club membership next month


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## embree (Apr 23, 2011)

Just had a late night stroll - all quiet on the western front, normal Friday night stuff, Telepathic squat closed up but clearly occupied and with one or two on watch outside. Counted seven cops guarding Tesco, three vehicles parked outside including a van. They seem to have taken the wise option of keeping a low profile everywhere else. Took a look round the back of Tesco to see how Gerry1time's mate's allegation of loads of looting out that way stacked up but it's a dark alley and realised I didn't want to startle any edgy security who may have been round there.

That's it, nothing else to report


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## suburbia (Apr 23, 2011)

agricola said:


> you do know what petrol bombs are usually made of, right?


 
Many raw materials commonly found in and around the home will also have the desired effect, or so I'm told  but as the news apparently concerned ready mades, and it's not completely unknown for the fire service to be in attendance when such activity is disturbed, I merely wondered if anyone had seen it.

If someone is suspected of making bombs, I'd expect them to also be suspected of being prepared to use them either by the time the police got to the scene or during the raid, hence my query.


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## spliff (Apr 23, 2011)

Well, if I was a tactician with Avon & Somerset police last night and I received _'Intelligence'*_ that there was a planned petrol bomb attack on Tesco Express I would have placed a couple of plod outside Tesco for deterrence and raided the alleged _'bomb factory_' about 6-6.30am.

Unless of course I was pressured from above to put on a show relating to underfunding for a beleaguered police force.

*oxymoron


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## shagnasty (Apr 23, 2011)

Quite a primitive weapon but could be effective.I always thought it is no more than a rag ,glass bottle some petrol.The old bill keep harping on about  petrol bombs, but i have not seen one ,do they expect they could be used or is this just a scare tactic


----------



## Giles (Apr 23, 2011)

strung out said:


> i could be completely wrong here, but it sounds like they tried evicting the squat, it all went a bit wrong, so they've tried covering it up by fabricating some reports about acting on intelligence over petrol bombs. as things stand, the squat remains in place and those arrested will be released fairly soon, with petrol bombs never mentioned again?
> 
> how plausible does that sound?



Whatever people think of rights and wrongs of them doing an eviction, someone fucked up here.

 The fuzz have years of experience to know that if you turn up at 5.30am and turf your intended targets out of bed, you'll have much less of a "public order issue" than steaming in mob-handed right in the zone of people being the most drunk, and on the first night of what is going to be a 4 day piss-up, giving the whole neighbourhood an excuse to join in and feel a sense of grievance, even amongst those who frankly don't care any more about the wider issues of Tesco than a pig cares about free speech.

Even if someone without practical experience was in charge, you'd have hoped that, like the old sergeant "advising" the inexpierenced officer, someone would have said "don't provoke a brawl, especially on Friday night, and double especially on the first night of a bank holiday weekend"?

Giles..


----------



## Giles (Apr 23, 2011)

suburbia said:


> Many raw materials commonly found in and around the home will also have the desired effect, or so I'm told  but as the news apparently concerned ready mades, and it's not completely unknown for the fire service to be in attendance when such activity is disturbed, I merely wondered if anyone had seen it.
> 
> If someone is suspected of making bombs, I'd expect them to also be suspected of being prepared to use them either by the time the police got to the scene or during the raid, hence my query.


 
Did they actually arrest anyone for even having an actual petrol bomb, part-filled bottles with rags stuffed in the top, as opposed to a "potential" petrol bomb, which could be taken to mean anyone's house that happened to contain the potential ingredients?

Did they?

If not, this is on a par with arresting pretyy much anyone for "potentially" causing an affray on the basis that their kitchen drawer contained a few potential weapons.

Giles..


----------



## Giles (Apr 23, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> So far as I am aware not one single Tesco Express that I know of replaced an empty shop, they were ALL independent shops that Tesco bought up. I'm sure they have built some on empty sites, but it doesn't seem to be the norm. So what actually happens in most cases is that NO jobs are created. No new resources come into the local community. However the choices of local people are reduced still further.
> 
> Judging by much of the comment elseweb on this there seem to be a huge number of people who basically condemn anyone who differs from them in any way, and who would be perfectly happy with no choice at all provided everything they see is branded with a logo they recognise from TV, and nobody is asking them to do anything difficult such as thinking.


 
You wouldn't even need any kind of council permission to buy or rent an existing shop premises and open it as your shop. Whether you are selling the same stuff or something different. In planning terms, a shop is a shop (A1 use). A prospective shop keeper does not need the permission or approval of the council or local residents to open for business. 

Whether this is "right" is another question. 

Should any prospective shopkeeper have to submit himself to a panel of locals who could veto his right to open for business?

Or only if you are Tesco?

Giles..


----------



## embree (Apr 23, 2011)

However you do need a licence to sell alcohol. That's something you need to apply for. Also planning permission for shop front etc


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## JHE (Apr 23, 2011)

Streathamite said:


> don't forget to renew your Monday Club membership next month



Isn't it full of small businessmen?  Rather like that 'organic' wotsit rioter who hates supermarkets and that bike shop owner whose window shouldn't have been broken, we are told.  I suppose the haircuts are different.


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## Giles (Apr 23, 2011)

embree said:


> However you do need a licence to sell alcohol. That's something you need to apply for. Also planning permission for shop front etc


 
You are right about this. 

However I'm pretty sure that when it comes to the council approving an "off licence" they are only allowed to consider a limited range of things. Provided the person applying has no bad history for selling booze to underage teens or to those who could be said by a reasonable shop assistant to have "had enough" already, and that the shop doesn't have some reputation as THE place that the super-lager and quite frightening cider drinkers refuel and hang around, I think they are pretty much bound to give it. Until some years ago, there WAS taken into consideration whether the licencing magistrates felt that the area did or did not NEED another offie. This was the same also with bookies. Until some bunch of politicians - not sure if tory or nu-liebour, swept away such fuddy duddy notions of social responsibility and began to consider bookies and bottle shops as businesses vital to revive the economy. Yeah, right.

Giles..


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## ericjarvis (Apr 23, 2011)

bingiman said:


> I am suprised no one is complaining about the price of petrol bombs...


 
That's because Sainsbury's are doing a three for the price of two promotion at the moment. No idea why.


----------



## suburbia (Apr 23, 2011)

Giles said:


> If not, this is on a par with arresting pretyy much anyone for "potentially" causing an affray on the basis that their kitchen drawer contained a few potential weapons.



I don't doubt it.


----------



## ddraig (Apr 24, 2011)

squatters don't give a shit about tesco and there was only 4 of them
*Bristol squatters deny Tesco attack and petrol bomb claims*
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/apr/23/bristol-squatters-tesco-attack-petrol-claims?CMP=twt_iph


> Around 160 police officers in riot gear raided the squat in the Stokes Croft area to arrest a number of people they said posed "a real threat to the local community".
> 
> But the operation sparked violent protests amid allegations of heavy-handed tactics. Eight police officers were injured and recently opened Tesco store was badly damaged. Nine protesters were arrested, four of whom appeared before Bristol magistrateson Saturday. None of the four squatters remaining in the building were arrested.
> 
> ...


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## spliff (Apr 24, 2011)

> Avon and Somerset police maintain that the operation was justified and said its officers had found petrol bombs on the roof of the building which had been taken away for tests.



If it's anything like the squat I where I lived in Wicklow St, Kings Cross in the late 70's, analysis will reveal half empty bottles of cider and half full bottles of piss.

It was hard to tell the difference and sometimes it didn't matter.


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## Chuff (Apr 24, 2011)

petrol bombs, used to cost about £2 for 24, milk crate and a plastic thingy (rag was free)

Now costs:
30p per bottle in petrol (fucking barrel bandits)
2:40 for a vintage crate
£12 for 12 lucozaide bottles


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## embree (Apr 24, 2011)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jonathantaphouse/5621548411/

This is the protest that was running outside the store for the first week after opening. Store looking as empty as it generally was every time I walked past


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## embree (Apr 24, 2011)

This link's doing the rounds on Twitter - interview with a protester who was helping run the stall and had spoken to security there - discovering that they were a possible source for the tip off to police re: petrol bombs at Telepathic Heights. Curiouseur and curiouseur

http://dru-withoutamap.blogspot.com/2011/04/how-many-petrol-bombs.html?spref=tw

Interesting that they were using a London based firm who specialise in squat evictions and who evidently believe the residents of the area to be 'scum'


----------



## embree (Apr 24, 2011)

Finally for now, article on how the police got their spin on events in first, with many mainstream media outlets using A&S police's press release as basically the entire basis for their reporting. Prioritising police 'injuries' over anyone else's (and how many of these injuries were serious?), the repetition of the lie that the store was petrol bombed and the failure to look for any facts beyond what A&S police have provided them with.

http://www.opendemocracy.net/ourkin...ritain-how-police-spun-battle-of-stokes-croft


----------



## embree (Apr 24, 2011)

Cllr Jon Rogers (Lib Dem Ashley - the ward which covers the eastern side of Stokes Croft/Cheltenham Road and includes Tesco - but not Telepathic Heights) reporting on Twitter that he hears one person from the squat has been charged. No other details so charged with what I'm not sure.

Rogers' Twitter postings over this have been a load of bollocks


----------



## embree (Apr 24, 2011)

Bristol West MP Stephen Williams (LD) comments on Laurie Penny's New Statesman article (or it's supposedly him, no verification other than name but it looks genuine):

"what an irresponsible article. The first sentence is hyperbole. Bristol was not "on fire" last night. A few bins were burnt. There are legitimate concerns about supermarkets but last night's events were more to do with anarchist or hard left anti-capitalist drop outs who were determined to have a violent confrontation. The vast majority of people in my constituency will be sickened and dismayed by what happened and will not thank various commentators who are trying to stir things up again."

20:09 on 22/4 here

So zero understanding of what happened or which of his constituents were involved, just an abrupt dismissal. I may not have much time for Kerry McCarthy (Lab Bristol East) or what she had to say about it but at least she appears to have been present and is speaking with a touch more of an informed position.


----------



## embree (Apr 24, 2011)

Finally, before I go to fulfill family duties, a thought. There was apparently a party at the squat on Wednesday, fairly normal for somewhere like that given that a few of the squatters were moving out and the possibility of eviction was looming. If Tesco security saw petrol being taken into the building, is it not at least plausible that this was for a generator? If there were large numbers of bottles, could it not have been the aftermath of that same party?

And why do I feel pointing out the bleeding obvious is so controversial when it comes to stuff like this?


----------



## strung out (Apr 24, 2011)




----------



## ericjarvis (Apr 24, 2011)

The more I read about this the more I think the real agenda here is that the squatters were perceived by Tesco management and Bristol Council as different and therefore to be a problem. At root is a demand for conformity at all costs. Fail to conform sufficiently and there have always been people who will demand that you conform or be killed. What we currently have is government, media, and pretty much the entire political establishment prepared to back up those extreme sentiments with action and propaganda.


----------



## Balbi (Apr 24, 2011)

Iannucci's Time Trumpet sketch becomes ever more realistic.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 24, 2011)

Interesting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ice-station--return-new-giant-superstore.html


----------



## BigTom (Apr 24, 2011)

An account of Stokes Croft from Kerry ? the local MP who went there (@KerryMP on twitter) : Louder Than War http://bit.ly/dLd5MX - and one on her blog http://bit.ly/dFP6y5


----------



## strung out (Apr 24, 2011)

that's mostly pretty sensible for an MP


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 24, 2011)

JHE said:


> See Alfreton Road, NG7
> 
> There are loads and loads of empty commercial premises in Nottingham.  Alfreton Road has more than its fair share.  Tesco is currently doing up one place there.  I'm not sure what it was before it last closed down, but I think it might have been a car dealership.


 
Are they actually building it now? The site is/was boarded up for ages. 

Isn't like there is a shortage of convenience stores or supermarkets in the area, though I guess ASDA is a bit of a trek on foot....I bet it will ruin that early morning news agents and the people that bought the old SPAR 

A riot in NG7 would be pretty epic though....


----------



## Geri (Apr 24, 2011)

BigTom said:


> An account of Stokes Croft from Kerry ? the local MP who went there (@KerryMP on twitter) : Louder Than War http://bit.ly/dLd5MX - and one on her blog http://bit.ly/dFP6y5


 
She should be concentrating on her own constituency, which has enough problems of it's own, instead of gallivanting all over town trying to get her face in the papers.


----------



## JHE (Apr 24, 2011)

There's some interesting stuff on Ian Bone's blog, dated September last year:




			
				Ian Bone said:
			
		

> *USELESS ACTIONS BELOVED BY ANARCHISTS NO.2*
> 
> *ANTI-TESCOISM*: Tescos is the new McDonalds – hated by right thinking anarchists everywhere. Apart from being a heinous supermarket it is run by..ahem…people who probably don’t support Hamas and won’t sell those fetching Palestinian headscarves. It also takes trade away from those delightful and inexpensive Farmers Markets (every other Thursday) and doesn’t pay the caring farmers enough money for their milk.It’s also reponsible for the decline of the village smithy and the closure of all those lovely independent shops you never used to go to.It’s also currently selling a 12 pack of Birds Eye waffles for a £1. Bastards. I’m pleased that the anarchists of Bristol are at the world forefront of anit-Tescoism and that Stokes Croft will be where the vile food retailers meet their Alamo( or should that be Rorkes Drift..or the other way round?) and that everytime a demo passes Tescos they’ll have to have armed goons outside.



There are some interesting responses from Bone's readers too.




			
				The Don said:
			
		

> i always said when i was on the dole that the first place i’d petrol bomb would be that fucking corner shop charging me £1-50 for a fucking loaf!!!






			
				Badnewswade said:
			
		

> I wish Tesco would open a supermarket round my way. Here in sunny redcliffe we have our fill of local shops – overpriced, rude, Margaret Thatcher style grocers that don’t even stock wholemeal rice (woops worra giveaway!)
> 
> Every sodding time I go into my local shop I have to pay a ridiculous amount of money for a load of attitude and crappy goods that they’ve often just bought at Aldis and are re-selling for twice the price any normal person would pay. A Tesco around here would provide employment, help the poor save money, be open late, and best of all it would wipe the superior smirk off the face of the little punk behind the counter.
> 
> Anyone who drones on about how great local grocers are has obviously never had to depend on one.






			
				Badnewswade said:
			
		

> Like I say, my local shop treats me like shit so fuck them. What is this thing about how great small businesses are? They’re every bit as shit as big business with the added bonus of costing more. They have a really snooty attitude to boot, like they’re better than you because they run a poxy shop. Fuck that – the only problem I have with Tesco is that all the profits go to rich bastards, but other than that you’ll find that it’s more efficient, cleaner, and generally better than the average corner shop – at least in working class areas.






			
				Dale Winton's Trolley said:
			
		

> I’ve never understood why activists of all hues single out one capitalist enterprise over another. “I hate starbucks”, “i hate tesco” etc. They’re all versions of the same need to create profit by exploiting the working class. For revolutionaries, the policy should only ever be to single out this or that company solely on the basis of supporting their workers in struggle and to outline how they exemplify the revolutionary struggle to overthrow capitalism. I’m not into all this green/liberal guilt tripping shit that wants a “nicer” capitalism, with “fair trade” and the rest of it. Look, if you’re guilt trip wants to get involved in that, go for it, but just remember your enforcing the system every time you try to ameliorate it. Only action geared towards the endtimes of the capitalist monster is worth a fuck, in my view. Otherwise, go join a christian charity and have done. Meanwhile, I’ll enjoy my Starbucks coffee and tescos croissant until the workers go on strike.




See:  http://ianbone.wordpress.com/2010/09/22/useless-actions-beloved-by-anarchists-no-2/


----------



## JHE (Apr 24, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Are they actually building it now? The site is/was boarded up for ages.
> 
> Isn't like there is a shortage of convenience stores or supermarkets in the area, though I guess ASDA is a bit of a trek on foot....I bet it will ruin that early morning news agents and the people that bought the old SPAR
> 
> A riot in NG7 would be pretty epic though....


 
Not building it, revamping an existing building, which I think was a car dealership, before it closed down.

There is certainly no shortage of convenience stores on the Alfreton Road, but they can be a bit of a rip-off and I'd guess that the Tesco, though not one of their massive ones, will be a bigger better shop than others in the immediate area.


----------



## DrRingDing (Apr 24, 2011)

http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/event.php?eid=199473316758555


----------



## Geri (Apr 24, 2011)

Some people are so idiotic.


----------



## DrRingDing (Apr 24, 2011)

In which respect?


----------



## JHE (Apr 24, 2011)

Anti-Tescoism:  today's socialism of fools?


----------



## DrRingDing (Apr 24, 2011)

There wasn't any mention of tesco in the above link. Just a call out for a party in the face of police aggression.


----------



## embree (Apr 25, 2011)

Oh do cock off JHE. Thursday night we persuaded some unwelcome guests in our community to fuck off back over the bridge in their vans when they threw their weight around. Stop banging on about fucking Tesco, it's only one aspect of it. Ta.


----------



## embree (Apr 25, 2011)

Geri said:


> Some people are so idiotic.


 
Think I'll go


----------



## embree (Apr 25, 2011)

Police under pressure to explain raid

So, we have two people charged - James Smith has been involved in anti-EDO stuff and was already on bail for stuff in London March 26th. Remanded in Horfield nick until late June on a public order charge with no plea entered yet nor any application for bail, looks likely he could be going down for a while based on his previous. Joseph Porter is 20 years old of Irish traveller descent, barely reads or writes and has pleaded guilty to possession of a petrol bomb but not guilty to a charge of threatening to use it. Evicted from one squat on Stokes Croft and booted out of another after causing some problems, recently moved into Telepathic Heights and a history of drug/alcohol problems. Only had a duty solicitor in court. Sounds like more of a victim of society than an armed revolutionary. On remand awaiting trial.

The two others arrested at Telepathic Heights - one has been given a 12-month conditional discharge after pleading guilty to obstructing police after the original charge of assaulting a police officer was dropped. The other has pleaded not guilty to affray and was bailed until trial in Crown Court. Bail conditions include not going to Stokes Croft and also not going to the City of London or City of Westminster between April 26 & 30. Committal hearing is set for 17 June.

No word of the five arrested during the riot, nor of any other arrests yet after the event.

Tesco say they intend to open again on Thursday 28th April.


----------



## embree (Apr 25, 2011)

A Freedom of Information request has been made to Avon & Somerset Police regarding Thursday night, requesting information on numbers of officers in attendance, the cost of the operation, who authorised it all, what arrests were made, on what charges and by which force and injuries sustained by officers on the night.

Full request here


----------



## shagnasty (Apr 25, 2011)

The request was well drafted be interesting to see the answers


----------



## embree (Apr 25, 2011)

Giles said:


> You are right about this.
> 
> However I'm pretty sure that when it comes to the council approving an "off licence" they are only allowed to consider a limited range of things. Provided the person applying has no bad history for selling booze to underage teens or to those who could be said by a reasonable shop assistant to have "had enough" already, and that the shop doesn't have some reputation as THE place that the super-lager and quite frightening cider drinkers refuel and hang around, I think they are pretty much bound to give it. Until some years ago, there WAS taken into consideration whether the licencing magistrates felt that the area did or did not NEED another offie. This was the same also with bookies. Until some bunch of politicians - not sure if tory or nu-liebour, swept away such fuddy duddy notions of social responsibility and began to consider bookies and bottle shops as businesses vital to revive the economy. Yeah, right.
> 
> Giles..



In fact, Tesco were refused an alcohol licence for the Cheltenham Road store, I think on the grounds that there are already big concerns about street drinking in the area and that another store selling booze was not desirable.



BigTom said:


> An account of Stokes Croft from Kerry ? the local MP who went there (@KerryMP on twitter) : Louder Than War http://bit.ly/dLd5MX - and one on her blog http://bit.ly/dFP6y5


 
As strung_out says, relatively sensible. She may not be the local MP but she's been a damn sight better, shown more concern and at least an attempt at getting a handle on what's going on in the area than the entirely useless Lib Dem lobby fodder Stephen Williams who appears to have had absolutely nothing to say about this beyond a post made in his name on Laurie Penny's New Statesman article. Alleged petrol bombers, well over a hundred riot cops flooding the area, running battles through St Pauls and Kingsdown, a supermarket trashed and he hasn't said a single word officially. Thanks for your concern Mr Williams.


----------



## Geri (Apr 25, 2011)

embree said:


> Think I'll go


 
You won't post on Facebook about it though, I hope.


----------



## Geri (Apr 25, 2011)

Geri said:


> You won't post on Facebook about it though, I hope.


 
Oh, you've already have. Oops.


----------



## Mooncat (Apr 25, 2011)

James Smith was there? That guy is a legend - he could have a riot on his own: Just add cops


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 25, 2011)

JHE said:


> Not building it, revamping an existing building, which I think was a car dealership, before it closed down.
> 
> There is certainly no shortage of convenience stores on the Alfreton Road, but they can be a bit of a rip-off and I'd guess that the Tesco, though not one of their massive ones, will be a bigger better shop than others in the immediate area.


 
What, not up the top by Kaya Foods!? Surely down the bottom of the hill behind that tesco-blue fence?


----------



## embree (Apr 25, 2011)

BBC Bristol's Gareth Boulton tweets:



> Meeting tomorrow between the Council, Police etc, on the future of #Tesco on #StokesCroft



Not sure what this would entail beyond beefed up security

ETA: BBC story. Meeting is 'to decide on future of the store' and 'whether it should reopen' according to that


----------



## JHE (Apr 25, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> What, not up the top by Kaya Foods!? Surely down the bottom of the hill behind that tesco-blue fence?


 
Corner of Highurst Street and Alfreton Road


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 25, 2011)

JHE said:


> Corner of Highurst Street and Alfreton Road


 
Right next to 'crack towers' then 

I suppose the students in the student housing they built on the jakey park next to Stop n sShop can go there...


----------



## embree (Apr 26, 2011)

A&S Police Press Release today:



> Following the disorder incidents in Stokes Croft on Thursday evening and Friday morning, the police have been working with agency partners and key contacts in the local community.
> 
> Officers have continually been out and about in the area providing reassurance to the community, as well as addressing any concerns people may have.
> 
> ...


----------



## embree (Apr 26, 2011)

Column in the Times today by Tesco CEO who seems to believe that other businesses were as badly affected as them. He doesn't comment on his security staff at the store referring to residents as 'scum'


----------



## DrRingDing (Apr 26, 2011)

> Josef Janacek, aged 26, of no fixed address pleaded guilty to assaulting a police officer and was sentenced to a 12 month conditional discharge



That was a) very quick sentencing and b) a very lenient result.


----------



## DrRingDing (Apr 26, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> That was a) very quick sentencing and b) a very lenient result.


 
Probably from being homeless they kept him in until the next court date.


----------



## DrRingDing (Apr 26, 2011)

Cheers for that RingDing.


----------



## Geri (Apr 26, 2011)

embree said:


> A&S Police Press Release today:


 
Which one is James Smith?


----------



## embree (Apr 26, 2011)

Geri said:


> Which one is James Smith?


 
Yes, I wondered that! However I'm told James Hutton is a fairly experienced activist etc so wondered if it's the same guy


----------



## embree (Apr 27, 2011)

There due to be a screening of riot footage and a discussion on it at tonight's Occasional Cinema in Mina Road Park, St Werburghs. Cops turned up and cancelled the event. Which was very reasonable of them


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 27, 2011)

It looks like a very middle class studenty affair from the videos I've seen. What was that guy thinking playing the trumpet in the middle of the road in front of the police. Does he think he's in a 1960's film or something? Can't he get proper gigs?


----------



## embree (Apr 27, 2011)

It didn't look like that from the middle of the riot so I'd not set much store by your impression of some videos


----------



## embree (Apr 27, 2011)

embree said:


> There due to be a screening of riot footage and a discussion on it at tonight's Occasional Cinema in Mina Road Park, St Werburghs. Cops turned up and cancelled the event. Which was very reasonable of them


 
From twitter:



> Dozs of police, helicopter, roadblock, perimeter established, threats of arrest = more locals alienated and film still goes ahead. pointless



Yet to hear more about what's going on up there but it sounds like the screening's gone ahead in a different location with police stopping people getting there and threatening to arrest anyone who enters or leaves. This all from tweets so a bit confusing.

Anyway, slow handclap for the A&S there. Alienating Bristol one neighbourhood at a time


----------



## ddraig (Apr 27, 2011)

Ground Elders link from other thread 
http://www.stwerburghs.org/index.ph..._Cinema_stopped_by_police_in_Mina_Rd_Park.txt
bit more info and pic of sorts


----------



## embree (Apr 27, 2011)

From what I can make out, the police confiscated the screen the film was to be shown on. Organisers moved to another venue, event went ahead with heavy police presence. The helicopter was out, vans and 4x4s. Apparently trying to use anti-rave legislation to shut down the event. Occasional cinema has happened many time in Mina Road Park with no problems.

ETA: went ahead in someone's house/garden near the allotments despite police trying to use s63 of the CJA to shut it down. No arrests reported


----------



## Ground Elder (Apr 27, 2011)

Here's what the police say


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 27, 2011)

embree said:


> From what I can make out, the police confiscated the screen the film was to be shown on. Organisers moved to another venue, event went ahead with heavy police presence. The helicopter was out, vans and 4x4s. Apparently trying to use anti-rave legislation to shut down the event. Occasional cinema has happened many time in Mina Road Park with no problems.
> 
> ETA: went ahead in someone's house/garden near the allotments despite police trying to use s63 of the CJA to shut it down. No arrests reported


 
Shown on back of wall.


----------



## embree (Apr 27, 2011)

Reports going up on bristol indymedia now if anyone wants to look


----------



## fiannanahalba (Apr 27, 2011)

Art project riot.


----------



## audiotech (Apr 28, 2011)

A roughcut of a short film looking at what happened in Stokes Croft.


----------



## big eejit (Apr 28, 2011)

audiotech said:


> A roughcut of a short film looking at what happened in Stokes Croft.




"I resent paying the wages of a police force that is that incompetent."


----------



## Anudder Oik (Apr 28, 2011)

fiannanahalba said:


> Art project riot.


 
LOL, and with a trumpet.


----------



## sim667 (Apr 28, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> Here's what the police say


 
My favourite part of that page is they have a picture of a car bonnet labelled 'car bonnet' for those who dont understand what the abstract piece of photography shows


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2011)

More riot happening now apparently....




			
				Twitter said:
			
		

> 15 minutes ago #stokescroft was peaceful and fun. Then it seems police charged crowd with horses and now it's kicking off again


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2011)

Live stream of the riot


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2011)

Really seriously, another one!


----------



## OneStrike (Apr 29, 2011)

Cameron demanded that people should be able to have a local party today, he is the pm after all. Heres hoping we have street parties nationwide.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2011)

They kettled a load of them and then charged a line of non-v's doing a sit in on the road. Fuckin ell, bare more police now!


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Apr 29, 2011)

good on you bristol crew


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2011)




----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

I posted on other thread:

Demo outside Magic Box/Telepathic Heights hit the road at midnight, marched down Stokes Croft. Some objects thrown. Mounted police charge drove the crowd back up towards Ashley Road. Dogs brought in. Ashley Road junction kettled.

Bottle throwing and barricades down Brigstocke Road (St Pauls), quite a few local kids in St Pauls having a go. Kettle apparently seeing sit down protests, police driving vans at people sitting in road etc. Roaming groups of masked up kids launching occasional bottle attacks at police lines. Quite a few vans just fucked off, may be dying down a little.

In addition - copter still out. Also: I fucking told you it's not just Tesco


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Twitter full of stuff about the sit in but then again the rioters tend not to tweet what they're up to. Seems quiet out there but maybe that's just cos I'm home. Perhaps I should go have a look again?


----------



## gawkrodger (Apr 29, 2011)

if it carries on like this i'm fucking off up here and moving to live in Bristol! ha


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2011)

gawkrodger said:


> if it carries on like this i'm fucking off up here and moving to live in Bristol! ha



I'd love to move to Bristol even more now too.


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

More the merrier


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2011)

Rather small peaceful faction sit in...


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Couple of vans with blues on went across Stokes Croft and up Hillgrove Street towards Jamaica Street just there. Dunno if there's shit going on in Low Kingsdown around Nine Tree Hill like last week.

Kicked off around midnight when the march down Stokes Croft, loosely stewarded by fluffy style 'normal' cops was baton charged by about four mounted police with riot cops following in. There was some stuff being chucked but it wasn't anything like being out of control at the time


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> Couple of vans with blues on went across Stokes Croft and up Hillgrove Street towards Jamaica Street *just there*. Dunno if there's shit going on in Low Kingsdown around Nine Tree Hill like last week.
> 
> Kicked off around midnight when the march down Stokes Croft, loosely stewarded by fluffy style 'normal' cops was baton charged by about four mounted police with riot cops following in. There was some stuff being chucked but it wasn't anything like being out of control at the time



Lol you can't point to stuff out your window on the internetz 

There seem to have been a lot more than four on standby though...look forwards to draconian new laws after the bank hols....*has* to be a set up


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Loads of kids just legged it down onto Stokes Croft from Jamiaca Street, masked up, lots of locals. Police vans getting bricked along Stokes Croft. Right under my window


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2011)

Any chance you could set up a live stream? The fighting has well moved on from where the last matey was.


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Nah, sorry. Not a techie  LOTS of hyped up people on the street beneath my window, mostly facing up Stokes Croft waiting for the next move. Kids at the back trying to get the crowd to keep moving but it's not happening.

They're moving now, heading for St James Barton/Broadmead...


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Cops charging a few yards at a time down Stokes Croft


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2011)




----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Vans coming up SC. Line of police north of City Rd junction. ANother line on City Rd. Everyone heading down Upper York Street


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Horses, plod and vans heading into Brunswick Square. About to get very ugly down there


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Action's moved on. Somewhere down in Brunswick Square past Lakota


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

OK, just been out and had to escort someone up to the BRI.

All quiet round Stokes Croft, still vans up the road and the chopper's still out. Twitter reckons vans and lines of plod up on Cheltenham Road by the Polish Church and signs of trouble up there too. No idea if anything's still going on but wouldn't be surprised tbh.


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

A&S Police press release at 3:46am:



> Police in Bristol are taking action to contain a group of protesters after a violent disorder broke out in the Stokes Croft area of the city.
> 
> Officers are in attendance in the Cheltenham Road area and are taking action to control the situation.
> 
> ...


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

BBC still pushing the Tesco angle because they haven't a clue what else is involved

There was definitely more of a St Pauls/Kingsdown angle tonight. Loads more of the local kiddies out

Tweets suggesting action atm is on Nine Tree Hill and also in the Bearpit


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

More from Twitter:

8 arrested after windows of McDonalds at Cabot Circus put through - tweeted by a news cameraman
People kettled in Bearpit
_Reports_ of firebombs being brandished

All unsubstantiated as yet


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Police line gets bottled outside the Bank pub


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 29, 2011)

From the other angle:


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 29, 2011)

Brilliant. Stokes Croft now a no go area for cyclists.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 29, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> Brilliant. Stokes Croft now a no go area for cyclists.


 
Have your 5 30am cycle elsewhere then.


----------



## Thora (Apr 29, 2011)

Fucking hell it was loud last night!  Woken up at 4am by a helicopter with spotlights right over our flat.


----------



## Geri (Apr 29, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> Brilliant. Stokes Croft now a no go area for cyclists.


 
Were you planning to cycle to Stokes Croft today?


----------



## BigTom (Apr 29, 2011)




----------



## BigTom (Apr 29, 2011)

This is about last week, not watched it yet just the first 30 seconds or so but think it could be interesting


----------



## BigTom (Apr 29, 2011)

And it appears the police are either raiding or evicting Telepathic Heights right now

http://www.yfrog.com/h3omznkj


----------



## strung out (Apr 29, 2011)

police account of last night...



> FIFTEEN people were arrested after violent disorder disrupted the Stokes Croft community in Bristol last night.
> 
> Further arrests are expected after the violence, which saw several police officers suffer head, neck, back and leg injuries, and require hospital treatment after being pelted with bottles, rocks and other missiles.
> 
> ...


http://www.avonandsomerset.police.u...056&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


----------



## strung out (Apr 29, 2011)

police raid on cheltenham road squat in relation to last night


> Police have today raided a property in Cheltenham Road, Bristol, in connection with last night's violent disorder.
> 
> Officers entered the property at 9.30 this morning.
> 
> ...


http://www.avonandsomerset.police.u...056&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Still loads of vans with blues on up by Ashley Road now


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 29, 2011)

Telepathic Heights being raided now, according to Twitter.


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

There's a near complete lack of understanding in tweets/the media etc as to why Bristol's inner city youth are so fucking angry right now. I realise the media are a lost cause but ffs, people tweeting/commenting who are apparently local seem not to have cottoned on to what amounts to some serious discontent. Probably because they're just as much middle class gentrifying twats with no link to long standing residents as those they sneer at for being trusties/hippies.

ffs


----------



## Geri (Apr 29, 2011)

The intelligentsia are being pushed aside, and they don't like it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

Geri said:


> The intelligentsia are being pushed aside, and they don't like it.


 
they're not so intelligentsia


----------



## strung out (Apr 29, 2011)

there's rioting going on now on stokes croft


----------



## Giles (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> There's a near complete lack of understanding in tweets/the media etc as to why Bristol's inner city youth are so fucking angry right now. I realise the media are a lost cause but ffs, people tweeting/commenting who are apparently local seem not to have cottoned on to what amounts to some serious discontent. Probably because they're just as much middle class gentrifying twats with no link to long standing residents as those they sneer at for being trusties/hippies.
> 
> ffs



Would you like to tell us why they are "so fucking angry" then? I am genuinely interested. It is clearly not just an over-reaction to the opening of a supermarket last weekend.

What are people's grievances in the area?

Giles..


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

strung out said:


> there's rioting going on now on stokes croft


 
what after the 11am raid on telepathic heights - to coincide with the wedding?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

Giles said:


> Would you like to tell us why they are "so fucking angry" then? I am genuinely interested. It is clearly not just an over-reaction to the opening of a supermarket last weekend.
> 
> What are people's grievances in the area?
> 
> Giles..


you're wilfully ignorant, aren't you?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

gentlegreen said:


> Brilliant. Stokes Croft now a no go area for cyclists.


 
there's always a silver lining.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 29, 2011)

Series of pics from right now in stokes croft


----------



## OneStrike (Apr 29, 2011)

Daytime rioting would be an escalation iyswim


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> Daytime rioting would be an escalation iyswim


 
most rioting, away from demos, takes place at night, eg broadwater farm


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 29, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> what after the 11am raid on telepathic heights - to coincide with the wedding?


 
9.30am raid.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

DaveCinzano said:


> 9.30am raid.


 
ah - ian wasn't clear on that point





> Cops being pelted with bricks and tiles as they try to evict Telepathic Heights squat. People on roof – cops putting on climbing harnesses. The cops are fucking mental trying this after last night. 20 riot vans. No doubt hoping to get away with it under cover of wedding. Helicopter overhead. Huge police presence. Crowds gathering. The bristol cops are totally out of control. AT PRECISE MOMENT OF ROYAL WEDDING RIOT COPS ATTACK SQUAT


----------



## strung out (Apr 29, 2011)




----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

strung out said:


>


 
tbh if that's an accurate reflection of things atm then it's more standing about than rioting


----------



## strung out (Apr 29, 2011)

yeah, i think it's more a heavy handed eviction than a riot tbh. twitter seems to be calming down now with regards to talk about riots


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 29, 2011)

Live stream going on at the moment: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/telepathic-heights


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Apr 29, 2011)

DaveCinzano said:


> From the other angle:




drunk-o-vision.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Live stream going on at the moment: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/telepathic-heights


 
things don't look too good for yer man on top of the house


----------



## ddraig (Apr 29, 2011)

not at all
i presume all the other black clad figures are plod?


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

No rioting. Lots of standing about spectating.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

ddraig said:


> not at all
> i presume all the other black clad figures are plod?


 
yeh, they've got shields


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> things don't look too good for yer man on top of the house


 
There's three up there


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> There's three up there


 
4 i think


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Geri said:


> The intelligentsia are being pushed aside, and they don't like it.


 
Pretty much it


----------



## ericjarvis (Apr 29, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh if that's an accurate reflection of things atm then it's more standing about than rioting


 
Since when has "rioting" required doing anything more than standing around in the "wrong place"?


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> 4 i think


 
really? could only see three from street level but they kept moving around.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

ericjarvis said:


> Since when has "rioting" required doing anything more than standing around in the "wrong place"?


 
there's generally some movement and violence, not groups of people standing about doing nothing


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> really? could only see three from street level but they kept moving around.


 
four or five, from the video feed


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> four or five, from the video feed


 
to be fair you're probably getting a better view from that than I could from street level


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> to be fair you're probably getting a better view from that than I could from street level


 
not now - the feed's gone off air


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> not now - the feed's gone off air



Am I going to have to go outside again?


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Saw cop vans from Wiltshire & Gloucestershire. Supposedly there's also Devon & Cornwall and I heard from Wales too though not seen them


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> Am I going to have to go outside again?


 
feed's back on again

but now it's dinnertime


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Don't want to go out there again, lots of hipster twats tutting


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> Don't want to go out there again, lots of hipster twats tutting


 
You should see twitter


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

DaveCinzano said:


> You should see twitter


 
don't make me!


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 29, 2011)

Some fucking Tory Lib Dem MP on the news right now (Stephen Williams?) going on about the protesters being 'drop-outs'


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Apr 29, 2011)

FUCKING PRICK​


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Apr 29, 2011)

One of the most important thinkers of our times comments:


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> One of the most important thinkers of our times comments:


whatever happened to the larne liar?


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

stephj said:


> Some fucking Tory Lib Dem MP on the news right now (Stephen Williams?) going on about the protesters being 'drop-outs'


 
he really does hate his constituents. Probably knows he's fucked as of the next GE anyway so getting his retaliation in early


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Siege over, police in control of squat, building being secured and cleared. A lot of extremely cheesed off residents of the immediate area around today, don't expect this to go away quickly


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

New mural on Ashley Road. No camera on me but helpfully tweeted by someone:


----------



## Geri (Apr 29, 2011)

That's good, I might cycle that way on Tuesday morning and have a look.


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> Saw cop vans from Wiltshire & Gloucestershire. Supposedly there's also Devon & Cornwall and I heard from Wales too though not seen them


 
Add West Mercia to the list. We're providing lots of useful training to a number of forces lately


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Geri said:


> That's good, I might cycle that way on Tuesday morning and have a look.


 
It's on the practice wall so be quick - often gets painted over within days. The nature of this one may see it survive a while longer than most


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> he really does hate his constituents. Probably knows he's fucked as of the next GE anyway so getting his retaliation in early


 
'guest of honour' at election hustings at Malcolm X Centre now. Hope someone takes him up on his idiotic comments


----------



## kropotkin (Apr 29, 2011)

.


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

> #stokescroft legal support: Bindmans solicitors 0207 833 4433. Best in
> the business. Don't go local! Please RT.



Don't have a twitter account but please redistribute if you can. Ta


----------



## JHE (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> ...windows of McDonalds at Cabot Circus put through...



Brilliant!  Now you've only got to find a branch of Starbucks to smash up and you'll have done the full set.


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Anybody heard much about what was going on further up Cheltenham Road last night? Only saw stuff around Stokes Croft/St Pauls itself, but there seem to have been skirmishes going on further up the road as well

Edit: go away JHE you tedious tossrag


----------



## BigTom (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> New mural on Ashley Road. No camera on me but helpfully tweeted by someone:
> 
> 
> Not showing up for me - is that the "policeful protest" one? http://twitpic.com/4qwyki


----------



## strung out (Apr 29, 2011)

that's it


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

That's the one - not showing up for me either now as you mention it

Snatch squads reported this afternoon, Trinity Road nick is full so they're taking them to Southmead.


----------



## ddraig (Apr 29, 2011)

BigTom;11724544][QUOTE=embree said:


> New mural on Ashley Road. No camera on me but helpfully tweeted by someone:
> 
> 
> Not showing up for me - is that the "policeful protest" one? http://twitpic.com/4qwyki


 that is good but think it is this one





by Steve I
http://www.flickr.com/photos/steve_l/
e2a oops!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 29, 2011)

They don't like it up 'em - police threaten massive retaliation:



> Assistant Chief Constable Anthony Bangham said: "We are doing everything to identify as many people who were involved in last night's disorder as possible.
> 
> "My message to all of you is simple. *If you were involved in this disorder in any way – and there were more than 400 people who were there – then when we identify you, we will arrest you.*
> 
> ...



Road re-opens while police pledge to find offenders


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 29, 2011)

Graun article on last-nights goings on


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

DaveCinzano said:


> They don't like it up 'em - police threaten massive retaliation:
> 
> 
> 
> Road re-opens while police pledge to find offenders


it's fucking mental. looks to me like it will kick off big time in bristol, with the cops coming out with shit like this


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 29, 2011)

At about 8pm there was a report that 30 vans were parked up at fire station on Temple Back (towards train station) - Hampshire, Dorset, SWP, Hereford, Wiltshire).

Currently there are cops around City Road and other entry points onto Stokes Croft asking people if they're going to Stokes Croft.

Meanwhile, it being a long Bank Holiday weekend, the Inkerman (St. Paul's pub) has a sound system out in its car park (as normal for a long Bank Holiday weekend), with other smaller sound systems scattered elsewhere in the BS2/BS1 area. Could be a long night.


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

LOTS of vans cruising round St Pauls right now, saw some from Dorset earlier. Are we being used as a riot police training ground?

The recycling bins on City Road - normally chained to the fence so they can't be moved - have gone


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> LOTS of vans cruising round St Pauls right now, saw some from Dorset earlier. Are we being used as a riot police training ground?
> 
> The recycling bins on City Road - normally chained to the fence so they can't be moved - have gone


 
start stocking up on milk bottles.


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Dunno about any other locals on here but I'm starting to get the arse with Chris Chalkley a fair bit. Every comment he's made on any of this has been a load of toss to be fair.

Yeah I know many have had the hump with him for longer


----------



## Geri (Apr 29, 2011)

Apparently he got hit with a police baton


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

good

A&S Plod have released pics of people they'd like to identify. Many proving that masking up is the only sensible option


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

tweet that just made me smile:



> New theory of relativity: further away people are f #stokescroft more they seem to think they know what's going on



aint that the truth


----------



## Paulie Tandoori (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> tweet that just made me smile:
> 
> 
> 
> aint that the truth


innit


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 29, 2011)

Just went down to Temple Back to see what's going on down there - didn't see 30 vans all parked up, but signs they may have only recently been stood down - on the way several threes or fours of vans - Dorset, perhaps Gloucestershire and others - driving away, possibly towards the M32 and home. Only saw a couple of vans in Temple Back, and one A&S Support Group van and a command Range Rover in the road parallel to it.

Overall in a wander around that part of town a total of about twenty vans.

However, there's at least three - probably four or more - parked up outside Broadmead McDonald's, and another three or four near Lakota club (close to Stokes Croft) hidden round the corner on Wilder Street.

If we get done over tonight, though, it looks like it's going to be done by local coppers


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Seen a few whispers of videos and pics disappearing off the net today only a few hours after going up


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 29, 2011)

It's a tricky one - is it uploaders genuinely thinking they ought to take stuff down because there are people in them identifiable (as with some still photos last week), or have they been pulled by YouTube?

Certainly some of the ones I've seen disappear have been like the video where it's some chap discovering police all over the shop, whipping out his camera and then getting beaten/horsecharged for his sins (repeatedly!) whilst asking advancing riot police what's going on - he didn't seem to capture any footage of actual rioting, only the mopping up afterwards.


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Yeah, hard to say for sure

Police public meeting on Sunday apparently


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 29, 2011)

embree said:


> Police public meeting on Sunday apparently


 





*!!!!!*


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

My thoughts exactly!


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Larger images released of people they want to trace. Blurry pics of backs of people's heads are definitely going to work


----------



## embree (Apr 29, 2011)

Life imitates art - from last Thursday


----------



## MellySingsDoom (Apr 30, 2011)

Report from a witness on Bristol Indymedia: http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/704310


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

MellySingsDoom said:


> Report from a witness on Bristol Indymedia: http://bristol.indymedia.org/article/704310


 
Started alright but descending into divisive finger wagging crap about 'violent minorities' etc. This response to it was excellent and sums up a lot of my own feelings about what's going on here:



> I don't need a 'leader' and i don't need to be 'taught' anything.
> 
> Non violence is a tactic. It works in some situations, and not in others. Whether it was right for last night is a discussion to be had. But If you preach it as a blanket answer, based only on your own feelings, to others without empathising with who and what they are, then you are part of the problem, not part of the solution.
> 
> ...


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

DaveCinzano said:


> At about 8pm there was a report that 30 vans were parked up at fire station on Temple Back (towards train station) - Hampshire, Dorset, SWP, Hereford, Wiltshire).


 
Latest tweet reports we now have visitors to the area from Thames Valley Police parked up by Cabot Circus!

So: Gwent, SWP, West Mercia, Wiltshire, Devon & Cornwall, Dorset, Hampshire & Thames Valley now.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 30, 2011)

embree said:


> Latest tweet reports we now have visitors to the area from Thames Valley Police parked up by Cabot Circus!
> 
> So: Gwent, SWP, West Mercia, Wiltshire, Devon & Cornwall, Dorset, Hampshire & Thames Valley now.


 
Thames Valley TSG are fucking notorious, are they still there? 

*note* sometimes they like to bring that lot in hoping that they will recognise well known protesters, perhaps the powers that be hope they will spot some 'known ringleaders' if it kicks off again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 30, 2011)

embree said:


> Latest tweet reports we now have visitors to the area from Thames Valley Police parked up by Cabot Circus!
> 
> So: Gwent, SWP, West Mercia, Wiltshire, Devon & Cornwall, Dorset, Hampshire & Thames Valley now.


 
you should be playing copper bingo


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Thames Valley TSG are fucking notorious, are they still there?
> 
> *note* sometimes they like to bring that lot in hoping that they will recognise well known protesters, perhaps the powers that be hope they will spot some 'known ringleaders' if it kicks off again.



Not sure. We seem to have had a selection of vans from different forces, 5 or 6 from each.



Pickman's model said:


> you should be playing copper bingo


 
It has occurred to me we should put together a cop spotting game. Top points for if you see a van actually from A&S!

All quiet last night apparently. Patrols around the area and complaints on twitter that they were taking the dogs for a walk at 3am when everything else was quiet and people were trying to sleep


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Blog post which has a decent handle on the area, though perhaps not an appreciation of the longer term issues affecting St Pauls/low Kingsdown. Doesn't mention the various hostels in the area creating additional pressure on a fragile community but whatever, a good starting point for the recent problems:

http://noellejt.tumblr.com/post/5061700570/stokes-croft-riots-it-started-out-complicated-then


----------



## Geri (Apr 30, 2011)

It is *not* the sort of area where girls can walk home safely at 4 in the morning. There is no such area!


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

No, I felt that was something of a personal experience which doesn't hold true for everyone. I know girls who report consistently awful experiences here and others who have none - whatever the reasons behind that (perception, behaviour, it's another debate) I think it's fair to say that what she says there doesn't hold true for everyone by a long chalk!


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 30, 2011)

Geri said:


> It is *not* the sort of area where girls can walk home safely at 4 in the morning. There is no such area!


 
All cities there aren't many areas where a girl can do this without a mate with them or a big dog.


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

There's a danger (and I'm aware I can fall into this too) of setting too much store by the blog/twittersphere. Almost by definition, this excludes many of the working class kids I saw the other night because teenagers from St Pauls aren't - so far as I can see - on twitter or blogging. This means that overexamination of the concerns of people talking about all this on the net ends up with the 'Tesco conclusion', that there's no other cause than Tesco/squat/policing. Yeah they're flashpoints but there's so much more under the surface - youth unemployment, education cuts, pressure on working class communities from asylum seekers, substance issues, people with mental health problems. I found a lad in my car park on Thursday night who'd been trapped in there by the automatic gates when the disturbances passed by. He's schizophrenic, lived in the Jamaica Street hostel and was freaking out. Spent ages with him and on the phone to the 999 people (who he'd called before I found him) and ended up walking him to A&E. Nice lad, wanted to do right by himself and his young son but stuck in a hostel he hates living in and with services for people like him contracting.

We have lots of people like him in this area and in an already pressured community it's an overconcentration which isn't good for them or for the community at large. These are problems which aren't being discussed by the arty bohemian types (well, not as much as Tesco or whatever) and I get the distinct impression that many of them want this to begin and end with Tesco. Talk of 'our cause' and losing the argument through the actions of 'these dickheads'. I dislike Tesco, don't want it there, no bones about that. But it's not the be all and end all of what's behind the disturbances beyond the individual flashpoints and the linking of people's anger to one community campaign is unhelpful and limiting. There needs to be more community coherence but not of the sort the hipsters and trusties are on about - THEY need to gain some kind of understanding of, and empathy with, the working class areas they've landed on top of. Sadly I've heard too many comments - on the street and online - which are sneeringly dismissive of the people they live alongside. Some hipster on his fixie was watching the roof siege yesterday and started being loudly sarcastic about another guy near us who was venting his anger at police. The hipster bloke was assuming that everyone nearby was going to back him up but I know I didn't. Should have said something tbh.

We've got a lot of arty bohemian types here who - in my opinion - have some interesting things to say and do. I enjoy some of their contributions, street art and whatever. However, they're not the only people here and they can't assume - like Chalkley and others - that they speak for all of us and we have one united point of view on things. They may see their Stokes Croft as being a hippie/hipster paradise, all art installations, organic food and voting Green/Lib Dem but my St Pauls (for that is what one side of the road is) is something else, with different concerns which occasionally coincide with theirs.

And that's leaving aside the relations with the rest of Bristol which, it seems to me, involve much mutual incomprehension on all sides.

That was a lot longer than I intended it to be


----------



## Geri (Apr 30, 2011)

embree said:


> No, I felt that was something of a personal experience which doesn't hold true for everyone. I know girls who report consistently awful experiences here and others who have none - whatever the reasons behind that (perception, behaviour, it's another debate) I think it's fair to say that what she says there doesn't hold true for everyone by a long chalk!


 
How can she be unaware of this incident in February, which was all over the news?
http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Police-seek-man-city-rape/article-3289595-detail/article.html

 I am not usually in the area at night these days, but when I lived in Montpelier I was mugged on Picton Street (not technically Stokes Croft I know, unless you are going by Chris Chalkley's definition of the area) and my friend was grabbed from behind by a man when she was walking home - he ripped her earlobe in the struggle.

Of course there are other areas in which this happens (I would feel safer in Stokes Croft than I would on Stapleton Road at night) but it is stupid of the author of that article to claim that it is in any way safe for women (or anyone else for that matter).

Also, why the hell is she adding Southmead into the mix? What the hell has Southmead got to do with the area, apart from being at the other end of a very long road?


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Useless local MP Stephen Williams shows contempt for his constituents, fails to understand what's going on his backyard and repeats lazy cliches about people who dissent from his establishment party line

The tosser. At least Kerry McCarthy was there last week and was prepared to question police behaviour.

In the same article: local council candidates rush to jump on opposition to Tesco bandwagon


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Geri said:


> How can she be unaware of this incident in February, which was all over the news?
> http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Police-seek-man-city-rape/article-3289595-detail/article.html
> 
> I am not usually in the area at night these days, but when I lived in Montpelier I was mugged on Picton Street (not technically Stokes Croft I know, unless you are going by Chris Chalkley's definition of the area) and my friend was grabbed from behind by a man when she was walking home - he ripped her earlobe in the struggle.
> ...


 
For sure and I think that if we want to show more community awareness we need to unite around this stuff as well as selling pottery and painting walls 

Your Picton Street comment made me think - he probably does think it's 'Stokes Croft' but would probably not think that City Road is. Which shows what a load of confused, self selecting bollocks this 'Stokes Croft as an area apart from St Pauls/Kingsdown' actually is


----------



## Geri (Apr 30, 2011)

There's a map on his website which shows the area he would like to become part of Stokes Croft - it includes King Square, where my office is, and all the Dove Street flats. I can't work out which areas on the other side of Stokes Croft he wants, as it's too small. I'd like to know if he has asked the people who live in Kingsdown and Montpelier what they think of this idea!


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Aha, leaked plans for empire building eh? Will have a look - that the PRSC website presumably?


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Assume you meant this map

He excludes City Road but wants to include Lakota. Most of it is basically Stokes Croft/Jamaica Street but ti underlines the flexible interpretation of the definition. Afaic, east side of the road is St Pauls, west side is Kingsdown

No, hang on! There's another map same page, sorry only looked at the top 'conservation area' map.

Second map shows a huge landgrab including lower Cheltenham Road, Dove Street, the Bearpit etc. So 'Stokes Croft' is now supposed to include parts of Cotham, Kingsdown and Broadmead but still showing very little interest in St Pauls - which doesn't surprise me tbh. The difference in the culture and attitude between the arty bohos and longstanding St Pauls residents is enormous


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 30, 2011)

Would someone local think it unusual to simply say 'St Pauls' for this area? 

Just wondering if there's any sensitivity about saying 'new St. Paul's' riots.


----------



## Geri (Apr 30, 2011)

LOL, I didn't realise our office was a grade 2 listed building.

*feels posh now*


----------



## Geri (Apr 30, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Would someone local think it unusual to simply say 'St Pauls' for this area?
> 
> Just wondering if there's any sensitivity about saying 'new St. Paul's' riots.


 
Some of the rioting took place in St Pauls but some didn't, so it wouldn't really be fair.


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Geri said:


> Some of the rioting took place in St Pauls but some didn't, so it wouldn't really be fair.


 
Yeah, I think it's worth drawing a distinction in some ways because the disturbance generated in Cheltenham Road which is either Cotham or Montpelier depending on which side of the road you're on. There's a definite St Pauls element to a lot of it but only elements - the blog post I linked to above got it right in describing the Croft as a 'buffer zone' where various identities, classes and backgrounds rub up against each other.

To define the riots as St Pauls only would need to see it happening down Grosvenor Road or thereabouts and spilling out, not Stokes Croft and spilling in. You might think it a tenuous distinction to draw but I think the language we use is important here, it can make a big difference in perception of what's going on.

If you have a map - east side of Stokes Croft up to Ashley Road is St Pauls. West side up is Kingsdown. North of Ashley Road is Montpelier and north of Nine Tree Hill is Cotham.

ETA - last parts of this directed at Bernie and others, I'm sure Geri's familiar enough with the area


----------



## Geri (Apr 30, 2011)

I think we should refer to them as the Cotham riots from now on


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 30, 2011)

Ok, thanks. 

Just sort of vaguely wondering if it's important for the media to avoid framing it as being in any way comparable to the 1980 riot, also kicked off by heavy-handed policing and a pre-cursor to many inner city areas going up in flames the following year sort of thing ...


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Ok, thanks.
> 
> Just sort of vaguely wondering if it's important for the media to avoid framing it as being in any way comparable to the 1980 riot, also kicked off by heavy-handed policing and a pre-cursor to many inner city areas going up in flames the following year sort of thing ...


 
You have a point and it's occurred to me that there's an interest in continuing to frame this as 'Tesco riots' avoiding any other possible cause of the disturbances. Just so long as this can be portrayed as some local difficulty involving bolshy trustifarians and crusties, links to other similarly put upon inner cities can be avoided. But we'll see - St Pauls to Brixton took around a year in 1980/81, not so sure it'll be that long before something goes off somewhere else this time


----------



## big eejit (Apr 30, 2011)

See this police press release about Thursday:

Assistant Chief Constable Anthony Bangham said: "We are doing everything to identify as many people who were involved in last night's disorder as possible.

"My message to all of you is simple. If you were involved in this disorder in any way – and there were more than 400 people who were there – then when we identify you, we will arrest you.

"It doesn't matter if you are captured on camera at the front throwing rocks, or if you were standing behind somebody else doing this, encouraging and inciting them to commit action..."

So he's basically saying if you join a protest you will be arrested.


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

That's basically it. Obviously anybody who thinks they're in the photos released shouldn't come forward and anybody who recognises someone should not tell the police.

The pictures themselves are, in many cases, ridiculous. Blurred, indistinct and unenlightening. As I said up there somewhere, the few that are detailed show exactly why people need to mask up


----------



## Thora (Apr 30, 2011)

Geri said:


> It is *not* the sort of area where girls can walk home safely at 4 in the morning. There is no such area!


Not safe, but at least often busy at 4am.  I'm never felt particularly unsafe in this area anyway. 



embree said:


> Yeah, I think it's worth drawing a distinction in some ways because the disturbance generated in Cheltenham Road which is either Cotham or Montpelier depending on which side of the road you're on. There's a definite St Pauls element to a lot of it but only elements - the blog post I linked to above got it right in describing the Croft as a 'buffer zone' where various identities, classes and backgrounds rub up against each other.
> 
> To define the riots as St Pauls only would need to see it happening down Grosvenor Road or thereabouts and spilling out, not Stokes Croft and spilling in. You might think it a tenuous distinction to draw but I think the language we use is important here, it can make a big difference in perception of what's going on.
> 
> ...


 I thought a lot of the action was around Brigstock Road?  Seemed like more St. Pauls than Cotham/Kingsdown.


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Well that depends on where you were! Last week there was lots happening around Nine Tree Hill and further up. The other night was Nine Tree Hill/Jamaica Street/Dove Street as well as stuff apparently happening up Cheltenham Road as far as Sainsburies (so Cotham and even Redland) - not sure what but certainly reports of debris scattered around there. The wider these things spread the harder it is to keep track of what's happened where


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 30, 2011)

big eejit said:


> See this police press release about Thursday:
> 
> Assistant Chief Constable Anthony Bangham said: "We are doing everything to identify as many people who were involved in last night's disorder as possible.
> 
> ...


 
Would it be fair to say that liason efforts and other relations between police and the local community have now collapsed? 

Or are they continuing on the basis of somehow liasing with 'ordinary' community members while excluding 'extremists' ?


----------



## Geri (Apr 30, 2011)

big eejit said:


> "It doesn't matter if you are captured on camera at the front throwing rocks, or if you were standing behind somebody else doing this, encouraging and inciting them to commit action..."


 
What if you were standing behind someone asking them to stop?


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Geri said:


> What if you were standing behind someone asking them to stop?


 
onus is on you to prove you're not an evil subversive obv


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Latest: all night curry stall set up outside Ashley News. £3 for a plate of curry and rice

*belch*


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 30, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Would it be fair to say that liason efforts and other relations between police and the local community have now collapsed?
> 
> Or are they continuing on the basis of somehow liasing with 'ordinary' community members while excluding 'extremists' ?


 
Or to put it the other way around, one would hope that anyone claiming to be a competent journalist would want to see evidence that the police are maintaining a dialogue with a plausible cross-section of 'ordinary' community members before falling for any version of 'it's only a handful of extremists' - I don't think getting the odd Tory or UKIP punter to say that they're shocked at the violence for the local rag would count as 'liasing with the community' in any meaningful way. 

I _suspect _that they can't demonstrate that meaningful police-community liason, dialogue or whatever, is still happening, and if that's true, this fact can be used to question the 'extremists' narrative currently dominant in the mainstream media.

If they are attempting to create an _illusion _of such dialogue without actually letting it happen (I'm getting the idea that real dialogue would be angrily mediapathic right now), then I would suggest that needs to be exposed as widely as possible.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 30, 2011)

The police've cancelled the 'community meeting' that was going to take place tomorrow at the Polish Church (now transmuted into a pair of 'beat surgeries') "due to a planned protest", though they don't say what that is.


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Well there's a police-community meeting on Friday at the Polish Church on Cheltenham Road. Given that A&S Police have effectively threatened to arrest anyone who was present, I doubt there'll be a true cross section of the community present - but then again that's how this works. Develop relations with the 'respectable' residents and isolate the rest. I shant be going.

Talking to a few people at the rooftop stand off yesterday morning, there's a real feeling of resentment at the police presence in the area. There's an ongoing feeling of resentment at the numbers of riot vans cruising the area, parked up etc. It's a pointless show of strength from a force who have twice lost control of the area, played a frontline role in starting and then exacerbating trouble and are now pedaling furiously to look like they know what they're doing. Statements today about how they're going to arrest everyone regardless of what they were doing are designed to send a message to Redland, Cotham and the other well to do areas nearby that they're in charge and to intimidate an angry neighbourhood.

I shall be interested to know what happens next Friday but not as interested as in what happens in our streets where the outsiders who caused trouble are still here and not welcome.

Bit biased, yes there'll be some who want to buy into the Police side of the story. They'll be co-opted and the rest of us can go to hell


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

DaveCinzano said:


> The police've cancelled the 'community meeting' that was going to take place tomorrow at the Polish Church (now transmuted into a pair of 'beat surgeries') "due to a planned protest", though they don't say what that is.


 
Yeah, saw that. I'm assuming some Mayday stuff somewhere? Doubt they feel they can spare the officers for 'beat surgeries', if there's some tame march somewhere given their obvious desire to show everyone who's running the show with ludicrous overkill (see also: St Werburghs cinema event & very visible policing at the football today).

Still - Ashley News curry eh? I support this new initiative


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 30, 2011)

embree said:


> Well there's a police-community meeting on Friday at the Polish Church on Cheltenham Road. Given that A&S Police have effectively threatened to arrest anyone who was present, I doubt there'll be a true cross section of the community present - but then again that's how this works. Develop relations with the 'respectable' residents and isolate the rest. I shant be going.
> 
> <snip>


 
Well, if they are going to try to pretend that they have the consent of the community to behave like this, it's probably quite important for members of the community who dispute this to show up and say so, loudly ... otherwise it's kind of a fait accomplis ... just saying ...

I think it might turn out to be important to challenge them along the lines of: 

'Your relationship with the community in that area has completely broken down hasn't it Chief Constable?' 

'Do you understand "community liason" to mean barging in, cracking heads and threatening retaliation?'

'Well OK, if this is policing with the consent of the community, where is that consent being evidenced? At the consultation meeting where you arrested half of the people who turned up?' 

'Do you think the members of the community who were arrested instead of getting a chance to get their point across would agree with your interpretation of these events?'


----------



## Thora (Apr 30, 2011)

I for one feel very reassured by the visible police presence on neighbourhood streets tonight.


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Well, if they are going to try to pretend that they have the consent of the community to behave like this, it's probably quite important for members of the community who dispute this to show up and say so, loudly ... otherwise it's kind of a fait accomplis ... just saying ...
> 
> I think it might turn out to be important to challenge them along the lines of:
> 
> ...


 
Well I would but they say they're going to nick anyone who was seen in the vicinity of the riot so I don't think I will


----------



## strung out (Apr 30, 2011)

walked up from the full moon to the arches tonight and it was scary just how many coppers there were hanging about. even my younger sister doesn't know a whole load of the background to it thought it was proper mental and a bit intimidating.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 30, 2011)

embree said:


> Well I would but they say they're going to nick anyone who was seen in the vicinity of the riot so I don't think I will


 
Just think how funny and mediapathic it would be to have a consultation between the police and the community that ended up with them attacking and arresting the community ...


----------



## embree (Apr 30, 2011)

strung out said:


> walked up from the full moon to the arches tonight and it was scary just how many coppers there were hanging about. even my younger sister doesn't know a whole load of the background to it thought it was proper mental and a bit intimidating.


 
And with that I decided to look out of the window...

Two vans parked up by the paint shop
One van cruising down the road
One car following it
Two of yer good old fashioned British Bobbies talking to a homeless bloke
Another copper (flat hat, they're Inspectors or summat right?) over the road

Fuck me. Reminds me of the time they decided to 'reassure' the people of St Pauls about drug dealers by putting armed police on the streets

ETA another look reveals one more van parked up by PieMinister and a gaggle of Peelers over the road hatching plans for more Total Law Enforcement in the Croft (or maybe wondering how best to get into PieMinister and seize some suspicious looking pastry based snacks as evidence)


----------



## embree (May 1, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Just think how funny and mediapathic it would be to have a consultation between the police and the community that ended up with them attacking and arresting the community ...


 
I see the point but I wouldn't wish to be a martyr to that


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 1, 2011)

embree said:


> I see the point but I wouldn't wish to be a martyr to that


 
Can't argue with that, but the more people who turn up to any consultation in a bad mood, the harder it'll be to make the 'handful of extremists' vs 'policing by consent' narrative work ...


----------



## embree (May 1, 2011)

Yeah I know - trouble is I'm in such a permanent severely bad mood with the police these days that I don't trust them not to do something cuntish at this

Anyway, the #stokescroft hashtag on twitter is browning me off now ("masked kids and hoodies not legitimate protesters, violent minority, our Stokes Croft waaah wah wah" from a fairly self selecting clique it would seem) so it's time to turn in for the night #fuckoffyouhipstertwats


----------



## Geri (May 1, 2011)

https://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=143566465712624&ref=ts

Can't see what this has to do with International Workers Day.

We are going up that way about that time as our friends are having a BBQ in Horfield at 3.


----------



## embree (May 1, 2011)

I shall be elsewhere. Glance out of the window this morning reveals no sign of Mr Plod


----------



## ericjarvis (May 1, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Can't argue with that, but the more people who turn up to any consultation in a bad mood, the harder it'll be to make the 'handful of extremists' vs 'policing by consent' narrative work ...


 
I disagree. They will simply complain about the meeting being disrupted by a large mob of troublemakers from out of town. If you don't have any concern for the truth, and a tame media that will toe the police/government line at all times, then there's really not a lot that can't be spun to fit the "police saving the local community from unwashed squatting layabout anarchist rioters" narrative.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 1, 2011)

Well, guess we won't know until we see what the members of the relevant community actually do eh?


----------



## BlackArab (May 1, 2011)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Well, guess we won't know until we see what the members of the relevant community actually do eh?



Which communities, there were a few affected. Have to say the most surreal thing I saw this weekend was on Friday. Went for a drink in the Prince of Wales in St Pauls, the pub was covered in Union Jack bunting and the wedding was on tv. Next thing I knew a procession came by, mainly Africans wearing wedding costumes and waving Union jack flags. A strange contrast to the rooftop drama going on at the other  end of the area.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 1, 2011)

Fair enough, 'communities' then if you prefer, but I hope you see my point?


----------



## Geri (May 1, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Which communities, there were a few affected. Have to say the most surreal thing I saw this weekend was on Friday. Went for a drink in the Prince of Wales in St Pauls, the pub was covered in Union Jack bunting and the wedding was on tv. Next thing I knew a procession came by, mainly Africans wearing wedding costumes and waving Union jack flags. A strange contrast to the rooftop drama going on at the other  end of the area.


 
I saw them in Broadmead!


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## DaveCinzano (May 2, 2011)

17 year old arrested "on suspicion of attempted murder of police officer" - well ropey.

http://www.jackbristol.com/newscent...rrested-on-suspicion-of-attempted-murder-6004
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-13258269

Meanwhile:







http://bristolsolidarity.wordpress.com/


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## funkytwig (May 2, 2011)

*Why did Stokes Croft Riot Happen? - Investigation into the events in Bristol...*

Probably already posted in this thread but as we have a almost finished roughcut thought I would mention it - .


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## Geri (May 2, 2011)

Sick of people posting up videos actually - that could get people into serious trouble.


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 2, 2011)

Geri said:


> Sick of people posting up videos actually - that could get people into serious trouble.


 
I take it you haven't actually watched this video then.


----------



## Geri (May 2, 2011)

No I haven't, I was making a general point about stuff appearing on YouTube etc.


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## Riklet (May 2, 2011)

It's one that's maybeworth watching actually Geri, but yeah agreed loads of incriminating footage is badness.  I enjoyed the views n way that one is filmed though, n definitely agree that the police's approach has not reassured 'the community', instead they have intimidated people and provoked some of the stuff that's gone down in the street.  Talking about anyone who was in the vicinity being arrested etc, how can people take that seriously and feel 'secure', to stand outside your home when street protest etc goes down is now a crime worthy of arrest? Meanwhile Tescos are saying they have "overwhelming support" from local residents?! More like lol.

So telepathic heights has been evicted anyway? Shame tbh, there's a lot 'worse' squats in briz.  I bet the police have worked out the petrol bombs on the roof are piss or ket drip...


----------



## embree (May 2, 2011)

BCC had been granted possession of Telepathic Heights anyway - as I understand it they were negotiating with the squatters and they were in the process of leaving without eviction proceedings when the original raid was made.


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## embree (May 3, 2011)

Afternoon stroll reveals police presence now very low key - only saw a couple of plastics outside Telepathic Heights and a couple of others patrolling. Tesco has been adorned with graffiti reading 'LOL WIN'


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## embree (May 3, 2011)

Upcoming on Stokes Croft:




			
				Bristol Indymedia said:
			
		

> After the civil unrest following the raid and evictions on Telepathic Heights, the stakes are clearly raised for all parties for any future eviction.
> 
> Meanwhile, three more people will appear in Bristol Magistrates Court this morning, including one charged with "Attempted Murder". It is notable that many of those charged with serious offences have been of 'minors' - i.e. those under the age of 17. It seems the young and naive will bear the brunt of the polices' judicial revenge.
> 
> ...


----------



## big eejit (May 4, 2011)

DaveCinzano said:


> Meanwhile:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Bristol Evening Post story on that leaflet:

http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...nda-flyer/article-3517395-detail/article.html

With the usual enlightened comments from Post readers.


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## butchersapron (May 4, 2011)

Occasional Cinema round two tonight - venue not being released until as late possible.


----------



## ska invita (May 4, 2011)

big eejit said:


> Bristol Evening Post story on that leaflet:
> 
> http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news...nda-flyer/article-3517395-detail/article.html
> 
> With the usual enlightened comments from Post readers.



talking of 'riot propaganda'


----------



## badoni (May 4, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Occasional Cinema round two tonight - venue not being released until as late possible.


 
Not entirely true.

We released the venue already in a message to Facebook members, local residents, police and parks group members.
It is Mina Park.
The programme has changed and will contain NO RIOT FOOTAGE FROM STOKEY AT ALL.
The police have apologised to me _personally_ for their handling of last Wednesday. 
They now fully understand that there is no issue with what we do and we have dialogue.

A detailed account of last Wednesday is here:
http://stwerburghs.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=464


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## Ground Elder (May 4, 2011)

It was good of the Evening Post to repeat the advice in the leaflet


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## ddraig (May 4, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> It was good of the Evening Post to repeat the advice in the leaflet


 
 thought that as well
very helpfull! esp for those hiding out at their nans/aunties/cousins out of the area

so they damn it by repeating it! hooray


----------



## embree (May 4, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> It was good of the Evening Post to repeat the advice in the leaflet


 
Yes, I was worried about the word not getting out to the people who needed that advice most but I can sleep easy tonight


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## embree (May 4, 2011)

ska invita said:


> talking of 'riot propaganda'



For those not aware - Banksy has done this and it will be sold at Saturday's Anarchist Bookfair with the bulk of proceeds going to Bristol Housing Action Movement (squatters organisation) and for legal defence for those arrested and charged over the two riots. Naturally the BEP commenters are spitting feathers over this as well


----------



## gawkrodger (May 4, 2011)

You'll now have the busiest bookfair ever! haha

I was thinking of coming down, if I do, think I'll leave it to the afternoon ha


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## embree (May 4, 2011)

If they sell out there could be a riot


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## DrRingDing (May 4, 2011)

I'm gutted I live so far away. The rioteers of Bristol are doing us proud.

1 tactic to try in a riot situation is to to pick out one particular copper. All verbal and physical attacks heads their way. Just keep attacking that one. I learnt this in Greece.


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## Thora (May 4, 2011)

Is it this Saturday the bookfair?  I expect I'll be in the bar for it.


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## embree (May 4, 2011)

Thora said:


> Is it this Saturday the bookfair?  I expect I'll be in the bar for it.


 
Yeah, 10:30 till 5 or 6. Purchase some crap from Bristol IWW, not that we're ransacking our own homes to try and earn some money, oh no...

Here's Stephen Williams on the Don't Snitch poster:



> "Obviously, this is grossly irresponsible and further evidence that some people have been latching on to what at the start was a legitimate community concern about Tesco and turned it into a criminal episode. It is also further evidence that some people involved in the trouble were simply spoiling for a fight with the police, or 'the state', as they see it. Some of these people have been playing a very dangerous game."



It's nothing of the sort you useless idiot, it's solidarity work to preempt people getting fitted up and stitched up. Enjoy having fewer councillors on Friday morning, dipshit


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## gawkrodger (May 4, 2011)

Do you need any merch for the IWW stall? If I can come down I can always bring some, as well as the brand spanking new 450 leaflets and general leaflets


----------



## embree (May 4, 2011)

Actually, I think we could do with some - we were trying to get hold of Brum but not heard owt...

Drop us a PM


----------



## lopsidedbunny (May 4, 2011)

I thought banksy sold his sole...


----------



## strung out (May 9, 2011)

police could receive extra funding after stokes croft riots http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-wiltshire-13339388

i bet they never expected that :-/


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## Riklet (May 9, 2011)

I was in Briz at the weekend, and Stokes Croft had about 5 bizzies (well, PCSOs...) mooching about there on saturday night, first time for everything i guess! Never really seen many police 'on patrol' round that area before, but then I don't live there, and i'm sure they're out in force still after their excitement of the month...


----------



## peterkro (May 9, 2011)

People are flogging the posters on Ebay,just seen one go for £132.


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## butchersapron (May 9, 2011)

Good. What's the problem? That's what the que was for. For ebay.


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## Thora (May 9, 2011)

Yeah, if I could have been arsed to get up at 8am I'd be flogging one on ebay too


----------



## strung out (May 9, 2011)

same


----------



## peterkro (May 9, 2011)

I also didn't make it. I have a feeling quite a few people went to a Anarchist book fair with the sole idea of making money,to me money grabbing bastards.There's one at £150 now of which a fiver went to the squatters and the defence fund.Whoever was dealing with it should have brought the lot ,£10,000,and put them on ebay average say £125 =£250,000,then give that to the squatters/defence fund.But that's just me.


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## Geri (May 9, 2011)

I thought the money was going to the People's Republic of Stokes Croft.


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## steve0223 (May 9, 2011)

it's going to PRSC and 'associates' which bookfair collective understood to be the legal defence fund, anarchist black cross, and bristol housing action movement. No 100% as this is what will pan out but its what is hoped for.


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## cantsin (May 10, 2011)

mary portas / queen of shops / new govt adviser on retail calls on Tesco to share profits, pointing to the Britol Riots as evidence of people being pissed off with them destroying high st etc : 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...High-Street-rescue-bid.html?ito=feeds-newsxml


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## Geri (May 10, 2011)

steve0223 said:


> it's going to PRSC and 'associates' which bookfair collective understood to be the legal defence fund, anarchist black cross, and bristol housing action movement. No 100% as this is what will pan out but its what is hoped for.


 
Will the defence fund assist everyone who was arrested during the riots? If not, what criteria will be used to decide if someone is to be helped?


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 10, 2011)

Geri said:


> Will the defence fund assist everyone who was arrested during the riots? If not, what criteria will be used to decide if someone is to be helped?


 
I am sure the defendants and the legal support campaign would greatly welcome you volunteering your undoubtedly valuable time and expertise given the unwavering interest you have shown in what other people do and your acute analysis of how everyone else is doing it wrong/you think Stokes Croft and St. Paul's are shitholes/some crustie looked at you funny in 1993/etc.


----------



## butchersapron (May 10, 2011)

You been up pucklechurch then?


----------



## embree (May 10, 2011)

Some updates (all from a perusal of Bristol Indymedia, been a bit preoccupied with other stuff to look anywhere else)



> Bristol East Labour MP Kerry McCarthy has requested in the Commons that Bristol pig division receive extra funding to help tackle disorder in the city. Presumably the money will be spent on state of the art "community engagement" truncheons. Despite the cops having incited both riots with heavy-handed and deliberately provocative policing tactics, and despite lack of funds for basic services nationwide, policing minister Nick Herbert said he would consider the request.
> 
> So far the police response to the disturbances over the past few weeks has been a string of questionable arrests and vitriolic press releases. There appears to be no council-run community response. Stokes Croft is being demonised and hung out to dry. No prizes for guessing what happens next.



Arrestee support campaign:



> Were you arrested at or after the recent unrest in Stokes Croft? Or do you have friends in trouble?
> 
> If you're arrested and/or charged, you don't have to face it alone.
> 
> Bristol Arrestee Support is a group of local people committed to offering support & help to anyone arrested or facing charges.



FWIW, I'm completely behind supporting anyone arrested in connection with this. No discrimination based on any criteria because we can be certain the law won't discriminate

email: bristolarresteesupport@riseup.net


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## Pickman's model (May 10, 2011)

embree said:


> FWIW, I'm completely behind supporting anyone arrested in connection with this. No discrimination based on any criteria because *we can be certain the law won't discriminate*


 are you sure about that? how many cops do you expect to face a court?


----------



## embree (May 10, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> are you sure about that? how many cops do you expect to face a court?


 
good point. The law won't discriminate over which non-uniformed people to pursue and harass over this. As we know, those in uniform are exempt from prosecution


----------



## Geri (May 11, 2011)

DaveCinzano said:


> I am sure the defendants and the legal support campaign would greatly welcome you volunteering your undoubtedly valuable time and expertise given the unwavering interest you have shown in what other people do and your acute analysis of how everyone else is doing it wrong/you think Stokes Croft and St. Paul's are shitholes/some crustie looked at you funny in 1993/etc.


 
I was unsure whether to dignify your petty post with a response. However, I am pretty sure I have never referred to either St Pauls or Stokes Croft as a shithole, but if you can provide some evidence of that please post it up.

As it happens, I have been visiting Stokes Croft since I was knee high to a grasshopper and we used to get the bus into Bristol from Pill so my dad could buy tropical fish in a shop where the Blue Mountain is now. As a teenager I used to go to Full Marks bookshop and meetings of the Bristol Animal Rights Group in the Bristol Tavern (now a restaurant). When I moved to Bristol in 1987 I always lived on or around Gloucester Road, and Stokes Croft/Montpelier was the place we chose to go drinking/clubbing - The Old England, The Bell, The Brewhouse, The Bristol Tavern, The Moon Club/Lakota, The Tropic Club. The Blue Mountain and the Malap (where the closed down Tesco is now) so I have very fond memories of the area. However, I have also worked in King Square for over 10 years so I am aware of the seedy side and see things going on away from the main drag, mostly from people living in the hostels. I do not claim to be an expert or have special knowledge, but I am just as much a "resident" of Stokes Croft as Chris Chalkley or Claire Milne, neither of whom live there as I understand.

Much as it pains you, you need to acknowledge that not everyone in the area is opposed to Tesco nor do they think riots are a good thing.

As for my position on the rioters, it's relatively straightforward. I think they are idiots but I do not think they deserve to have their lives ruined because hey got carried away in the heat of the moment. The reason I asked the question was because one of the people charged as a result of the riot is also charged with racially aggravated harrassment due to an incident at the mosque in Wade Street, where it is alleged that he skewered pieces of pork onto the railings. I was wondering if people involved in a defence fund had any qualms about defending people like this (although I am aware he is innocent until proven guilty etc). I personally would feel uncomfortable about it.


----------



## The39thStep (May 11, 2011)

spot on post Geri


----------



## claphamboy (May 11, 2011)

Is the Tesco store still closed & boarded-up?


----------



## embree (May 11, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Is the Tesco store still closed & boarded-up?


 
Yep 

I don't have any qualms defending people regardless of 'previous'. A defence campaign simply can't pick and choose, it has to be everyone. I agree not everyone's opposed to Tesco or in favour of riots. I'm not in favour of riots, I'm glad the police appear to have stopped starting them.


----------



## claphamboy (May 11, 2011)

embree said:


> Yep



Excellent, I know it's not all about Tesco, and some support its opening, but this still amuses me greatly.


----------



## embree (May 11, 2011)

I can't see them opening for a while - let things die down and then try again in a couple of months maybe.

And yes, not all about Tesco, I wish the focus could be widened a little, at least on 'our' side - the concentration on the one issue by left commenters on here and elsewhere is frustrating


----------



## cantsin (May 11, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> spot on post Geri


 
how is meaningless , patronising guff about rioters ' getting carrtied away in the heat of the moment' in any way 'spot on' ? Is that what riots, from Peterloo to Tahir Square to Stowes Croft are about , people getting 'carried away ' ? very silly .


----------



## embree (May 11, 2011)

And after I posted that this morning...

Possible reopening next week

BEP continue to report this as thought the polie resources were needed 'in response' to the riots, rather than the riots being in response to a massive overuse of police resources. Keep remembering this every time you read anything written about this in ths mainstream media.


----------



## LLETSA (May 11, 2011)

cantsin said:


> how is meaningless , patronising guff about rioters ' getting carrtied away in the heat of the moment' in any way 'spot on' ? Is that what riots, from Peterloo to Tahir Square to Stowes Croft are about , people getting 'carried away ' ? very silly .





Quite. Stokes Croft was clearly on a par with Peterloo.


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## OneStrike (May 11, 2011)

Apparently Sainsbury's have acquired the old Woolies in Whiteladies?  It's not my area, just saying what i've read.


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## strung out (May 11, 2011)

the old woolies on whiteladies has been turned into an indoor market hasn't it? as far as i knew, that seemed like a pretty permanent fixture. they've certainly done it up nicely upstairs.


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## embree (May 11, 2011)

It's true apparently:

Sainsburys buy the old Woolies on Whiteladies


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## strung out (May 11, 2011)

that's shit. the clifton bazaar might not be to everyone's taste, but it's a nice unit that has plenty of local produce and local traders. down with this sort of thing.


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## Pickman's model (May 11, 2011)

cantsin said:


> how is meaningless , patronising guff about rioters ' getting carrtied away in the heat of the moment' in any way 'spot on' ? Is that what riots, from Peterloo to Tahir Square to Stowes Croft are about , people getting 'carried away ' ? very silly .


 
peterloo wasn't a riot was it. they don't call it the peterloo massacre for nothing you know


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## chilango (May 12, 2011)

strung out said:


> that's shit. the clifton bazaar might not be to everyone's taste, but it's a nice unit that has plenty of local produce and local traders. down with this sort of thing.


 
Couldn't they have bought one the many empty units around there?


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## embree (May 12, 2011)

chilango said:


> Couldn't they have bought one the many empty units around there?


 
and risk not fucking over one of their potential competitors?


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## The39thStep (May 12, 2011)

cantsin said:


> how is meaningless , patronising guff about rioters ' getting carrtied away in the heat of the moment' in any way 'spot on' ? Is that what riots, from Peterloo to Tahir Square to Stowes Croft are about , people getting 'carried away ' ? very silly .



From Peterloo to Stowes Croft eh. That is a tremendous leaf of faith there boy. Could the next step be reframing it as an uprising?

You got something to say to Geri re her posts as well?


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## embree (May 12, 2011)

A leaf of faith eh? And where the fuck is Stowes Croft?


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## The39thStep (May 12, 2011)

ask Cantsin he was the one who originally posted in support of 'Stowes Croft'.

Anyway here is Spiked's view of the fashionable anti Tesco lobby

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10503/


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## DaveCinzano (May 12, 2011)

Another fascinating screed from the intellectual powerhouse behind the free marketeers of the RCP. Still, at least if he's bashing these out he's not trying to have sex with young women who don't want to have sex with him.


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## Blagsta (May 12, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> ask Cantsin he was the one who originally posted in support of 'Stowes Croft'.
> 
> Anyway here is Spiked's view of the fashionable anti Tesco lobby
> 
> http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10503/



What is your opinion on the article?  Any reason why you've posted an article from a right wing site?  Are you ever gonna post an opinion of your own? or just continue your snide comments?


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## embree (May 12, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> What is your opinion on the article?  Any reason why you've posted an article from a right wing site?  Are you ever gonna post an opinion of your own? or just continue your snide comments?


 
pretty much what I've been thinking tbh


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## The39thStep (May 12, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> What is your opinion on the article?  Any reason why you've posted an article from a right wing site?  Are you ever gonna post an opinion of your own? or just continue your snide comments?


 
You are really one of those cases where you are a small fish in a small pond aren't you?  If you read the thread on the politics section you will see what my views are. 

As for posting articles from 'right wing' sites you might find that reading anything that is outside the uber precious  liberal getto you inhabit might allow you to operate in the normal world. Meanwhile just keep dispensing the methadone .


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## The39thStep (May 12, 2011)

embree said:


> pretty much what I've been thinking tbh


 
I am shocked.


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## LLETSA (May 13, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> What is your opinion on the article?  Any reason why you've posted an article from a right wing site?  Are you ever gonna post an opinion of your own? or just continue your snide comments?


 
Spiked might well extol the supposed virtues of the free market, but they're not right wing. Many free-marketeers are not right wing.

To my mind, right wing means conservative. The deeper the market penetrates, the more it undermines conservatism. Ultimately it destroys its social base. That's why we have a liberal society with any challenge to capitalism further away than ever and receding by the day.


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## Blagsta (May 13, 2011)

not worth it


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## Blagsta (May 13, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> Spiked might well extol the supposed virtues of the free market, but they're not right wing. Many free-marketeers are not right wing.
> 
> To my mind, right wing means conservative. The deeper the market penetrates, the more it undermines conservatism. Ultimately it destroys its social base. That's why we have a liberal society with any challenge to capitalism further away than ever and receding by the day.



Advocates of the free market are not right wing?  Oh dear.  No recognition from you then of different strands in right wing thought.


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## LLETSA (May 13, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Advocates of the free market are not right wing?  Oh dear.  No recognition from you then of different strands in right wing thought.





Lots of them are right wing; I didn't deny that. But it doesn't necessarily follow that just beacause you favour the (so called) free market, you're right wing. Most of those involved in Spiked, for instance, are clearly not right wing. And throughout the world, there are few left of centre political parties who now seriously believe that there is an alternative to the free market. But most of those involved in them are not right wing in their views on anything else (or even regarding the free market, as they tell themselves that it can be made to benefit everybody.) 

The radical left (anarchists included) realised this a long time ago, even if only subconsciously. It is why it concentrates mostly on defending liberal values.


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## Blagsta (May 13, 2011)

Spiked clearly are right wing.  Just cos they used to be the RCP, doesn't make them left.  They are advocates of a capitalist free market.


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## LLETSA (May 13, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Spiked clearly are right wing.  Just cos they used to be the RCP, doesn't make them left.  They are advocates of a capitalist free market.





They are advocates of the free market because, in their view, it is what keeps 'the human experiment' alive (innovation, the revolutionising of whole societies, the sweeping away of conservative attitudes-as we're currently seeing in the free market revolutions in the Middle East and Africa-etc etc.) These are all things they (correctly) see the left as no longer capable of doing. It in no way means they're right wing. In many ways they've called it right, despite the negative outcomes. Hence the bewilderment of those like Thatcher and Reagan-social conservatives who couldn't understand that unleashing market forces wreaks havoc on social conservatism. It is why their political descendents in right of centre parties can't really be described as conservatives.


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## Blagsta (May 13, 2011)

Support for naked capitalism is not right wing?


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## Fruitloop (May 13, 2011)

They fail to see that it it capitalism that i radical, not socialism.


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## Fruitloop (May 13, 2011)

'free market revolutions in the middle east'?


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## LLETSA (May 13, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Support for naked capitalism is not right wing?





Not necessarily, no. As I said, as far as I understand it, having come to see the left as a spent force and given up on the working class as the main agent of social change, they look to capitalist innovation to maintain the spirit of 'human experimentation.'


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## LLETSA (May 13, 2011)

Fruitloop said:


> 'free market revolutions in the middle east'?




I think the outcome will definitely be governments more committed to the 'free market' neo-liberal recipes than their predecessors.


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## Blagsta (May 13, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> Not necessarily, no. As I said, as far as I understand it, having come to see the left as a spent force and given up on the working class as the main agent of social change, they look to capitalist innovation to maintain the spirit of 'human experimentation.'


 
Which is a right wing position.


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## LLETSA (May 13, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Which is a right wing position.





I've seen no evidence that, while taking this stance, they are opposed to the working class striving for political change. I think they hold the position they do because, as I said, they don't believe the working class is an effective force for change anymore. 

They don't appear to be right wing on most issues. Lots of people favour capitalism without having a right wing philosophy, including many actual capitalists.


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## Blagsta (May 13, 2011)




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## LLETSA (May 13, 2011)

Blagsta said:


>


 
So you think everybody who favours capitalism is automatically right wing?


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## audiotech (May 13, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> Not necessarily, no. As I said, as far as I understand it, having come to see the left as a spent force and given up on the working class as the main agent of social change, they look to capitalist innovation to maintain the spirit of 'human experimentation.'



And ironically for an ex-trot group - 'permanent revolution'.


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> Lots of people favour capitalism without having a right wing philosophy, including many actual capitalists.


 i'd have thought a lot of people would say that anyone who favours capitalism is well on the way to be a right wing shit.


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## LLETSA (May 13, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> i'd have thought a lot of people would say that anyone who favours capitalism is well on the way to be a right wing shit.





Well you'd be wrong. Lot's of people, shits or not, who favour capitalism, are not right wing. 

In fact, it could be said that a majority of the population of this and many other countries, in their unwillingness to challenge it, favour capitalism. Are they all right wing shits?


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## Pickman's model (May 13, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> Well you'd be wrong. Lot's of people, shits or not, who favour capitalism, are not right wing.
> 
> In fact, it could be said that a majority of the population of this and many other countries, in their unwillingness to challenge it, favour capitalism. Are they all right wing shits?


 
there's a difference between favouring capitalism and putting up with capitalism.


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## LLETSA (May 13, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> there's a difference between favouring capitalism and putting up with capitalism.


 
How do we know that most people are only putting up with it?

What we do know is that most people in this or most other countries are not right wing.


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## dynamicbaddog (May 14, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> They don't appear to be right wing on most issues. Lots of people favour capitalism without having a right wing philosophy, including many actual capitalists.



I like Spiked. 
I don't agree with a lot of what they say but I  find them   thought provoking.


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## free spirit (May 16, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> ask Cantsin he was the one who originally posted in support of 'Stowes Croft'.
> 
> Anyway here is Spiked's view of the fashionable anti Tesco lobby
> 
> http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/10503/


load of postering bollocks, without even attempting to look at whether or not there might be a genuine reason (or reasons) for the opposition to the expansion of tesco's and other supermarkets throughout the land.

still, it's spiked, so that's to be expected.


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## The Black Hand (May 17, 2011)

LLETSA said:


> Lots of them are right wing; I didn't deny that. But it doesn't necessarily follow that just beacause you favour the (so called) free market, you're right wing. Most of those involved in Spiked, for instance, are clearly not right wing. And throughout the world, there are few left of centre political parties who now seriously believe that there is an alternative to the free market. But most of those involved in them are not right wing in their views on anything else (or even regarding the free market, as they tell themselves that it can be made to benefit everybody.)
> 
> The radical left (anarchists included) realised this a long time ago, even if only subconsciously. It is why it concentrates mostly on defending liberal values.



 Do you think taking all liberal progress away from everybody is a good thing Letsa? That seems to be an headbanging ultra left, &/or wishful thinking position (notice I didn't say you held that view).


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## LLETSA (May 17, 2011)

The Black Hand said:


> Do you think taking all liberal progress away from everybody is a good thing Letsa? That seems to be an headbanging ultra left, &/or wishful thinking position (notice I didn't say you held that view).


 
What?


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## audiotech (May 17, 2011)

**


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## The39thStep (May 25, 2011)

Back open again apparantly. 

Incidentially there is an interesting exchange of views following a typical Guardian  article called The solidarity of Bristol's Stokes Croft community ie 





> _was still a shock to see the culturally rich area, where I've enjoyed foreign language intercambios, live African hi-life music and Bristol's own brand of dubstep, turned into a battleground._


_

Good to see a couple of posters on here contributing. I must say that the article reminded me of the Peoples Republic of Hulme which Manchester City council thankfully demolished.


_http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentis...tesco-bristol?commentpage=1#start-of-comments


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## embree (May 25, 2011)

Whoever posted that comment knows fuck all about the area then

As do you, going by your last comment

Hope Tesco gets burned down btw, then we'll do yours as well


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## The39thStep (May 25, 2011)

embree said:


> Whoever posted that comment knows fuck all about the area then
> 
> As do you, going by your last comment
> 
> Hope Tesco gets burned down btw, then we'll do yours as well



Re  your first comment : this is exactly the debate in the comments section
second comment: were  you familar with Hulme as well, if so speaks volumes.
third: why,  do the locals here need  a lesson from you and your chums about the correct view of tesco's?

btw i did have a look in and I must say that nestles cappuchino sachets were 6 pence cheaper that the Co-ops half price offer


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## revlon (May 25, 2011)

the theory that squatters are the vanguard (literally speaking) of the gentrification process holds some water. 

They make good the ruins of a socially and economically destroyed area and environment, then come the social outcast, the artist as slum dweller, the drug lords, students, cultural entrepreneurs, counter culture disposal income, the scummy bars with overpriced bottled beers, the sound system boutiques, the graffiti artist as commodity fetish, the politically prurient and before you know it you've got landlords increasing the rent, councils clearing the rubbish, boarded up property suddenly become desirable estate agant fodder, and lo a new housing market emerges.

Hulme just stayed shit.


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## LLETSA (May 25, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Re  your first comment : this is exactly the debate in the comments section
> second comment: were  you familar with Hulme as well, if so speaks volumes.
> third: why,  do the locals here need  a lesson from you and your chums about the correct view of tesco's?
> 
> btw i did have a look in and I must say that nestles cappuchino sachets were 6 pence cheaper that the Co-ops half price offer





Hulme in the 1980s was on one level a haven for people who refused to grow up, but it was also a druggy nightmare and a mugger's paradise. No amount of organic vegetable shops could hide the fact


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## revlon (May 25, 2011)

would've thought hulme would gladden the heart of a old soviet blocer?

Concrete for the people


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## Pickman's model (May 25, 2011)

revlon said:


> would've thought hulme would gladden the heart of a old soviet blocer?
> 
> Concrete for the people


 
it looks like someone unbent some paper clips and used them as a model for a housing estate.


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## pesh (May 25, 2011)

don't be silly...

those are staples.


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## embree (May 25, 2011)

fuck it, can't be arsed


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## BlackArab (May 26, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> Back open again apparantly.
> 
> Incidentially there is an interesting exchange of views following a typical Guardian  article called The solidarity of Bristol's Stokes Croft community ie
> 
> ...



This comment rings true

_As a longstanding resident of Stokes Croft, I felt obliged to create a CIF account. On my phone. On Edge. To tell you just what nonsense you're talking._
_Folks in Stokes Croft and the surrounding district quite like some of the artistic aspects of the PRSC and othersuch idealists, but that's where the support ends. 96% opposition to the store? Forget it. I've been asking my neighbours for the last 6 months if anyone surveyed their opinion and I'm yet to find a single one who either WAS surveyed, or who objects to this store opening in one of the city's poorest boroughs. You want to talk about AstroTurf?_

Same here met/know loads around these parts who are in the anti camp but strangely enough I'm also yet to meet anyone who took part in the survey but yet the figures seemed to be accepted without question.


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## embree (May 26, 2011)

Yeah, the way this survey - which, as I understand it, was conducted on Twitter ffs - is quoted as gospel constantly is very silly indeed. I completely accept that not everyone feels the same way and that an awful lot of nonsense is being spouted by both sides.

The PRSC - well, I felt kind of neutral about them until recently. Nice art, some interesting ideas. Lately though, I've changed that stance to actively hostile. They want the place to be 'edgy' but when it gets a little too much so, they retreat into cosy middle class liberalism. I'll be interested to see what they do with that three grand or so they got from the posters and which Bansky apparently felt uneasy about giving to the defendents' campaign. If that's true, he can fuck off too


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## BlackArab (May 26, 2011)

Twitter! That's worse than I thought. At the first meeting the Chair suggested that a full survey of local residents could be done to find out the depth of feeling if something like this happened again. There was a surprising lack of enthusiasm for the idea from some of the anti's, it all becomes clear. I had no problem with their protest but the way they set themselves up as the voice of the community pissed me off. Oh and that Gus Hoyt is a smug twat too.

re PRSC if I hear Chris Chalkley described as 'community spokesperson' again in the meeja, I swear I'll spontaneously puke!


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## embree (May 27, 2011)

My memory may be failing me but pretty sure it was Twitter

Not had any direct contact with Hoyt yet, seemed the best of the candidates a few weeks ago - not hard though eh?


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## embree (May 28, 2011)

Amidst the usual bizarre rants on Bristol Indymedia, some interesting points made:



> The PRSC has been given £3,300 that could have gone to a defendants bust fund. Tesco has now reopened. What are PRSC planning to do about it? If nothing, can they assure us that they will donate the money to the bust fund?
> 
> And while we're at it - Hamilton House have benefitted by £3,300 raised from selling a stencil about the riot, despite the fact that they locked their doors when the police charged and offered no protection from the police beatings, or in fact helped the protesters in any way.
> 
> Can they confirm how they will spend the money?



I'd certainly like to know this. Raking it in from the "edginess" of the area whilst turning their backs on local people protecting themselves from police violence? Surely not.



> All of this misses the point that the riots were not just Stokes Croft vs Tesco. Stokes Croft is a tiny, barely inhabited strip of the area, and Tesco is only a symbol of how the wider area has been treated. How does the overly-focussed narative favoured here explain the attempt to reach Cabot Circus on the second riot, or the sheer volume of physical, frontline support shown from neighbouring areas on both nights? Do you really think the kids from Cotham give a toss about a Tesco on Stokes Croft?
> 
> The working-class areas of Bristol are tired and angry about their place in society. Every day we struggle with unemployment, low wages, meeting the rent, and the crushing hopelessness of life under this system. Mental health problems are epidemic in this country because advanced capitalist societies are adept at crushing people in ways they can barely see, let alone fight.
> 
> ...



Which raises the points I'd like to see discussed rather than the single Tesco issue which has been blown up out of all proportion


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## Geri (May 29, 2011)

As I understand it, the much quoted survey took place on a website set up by the PRSC called "No to Tesco in Stokes Croft" - in which case it is surprising that it is *only* 93% or 96% or whatever the figure is!


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## embree (May 29, 2011)

Geri said:


> As I understand it, the much quoted survey took place on a website set up by the PRSC called "No to Tesco in Stokes Croft" - in which case it is surprising that it is *only* 93% or 96% or whatever the figure is!


 
Fair enough, I was a bit vague about the origins of the survey (as is everyone else it seems!) and had seen it was a Twitter thing. Either way it is ridiculous and does the anti side of the argument no favours, which is a shame.


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## Geri (May 29, 2011)

Either way, it's not very scientific.


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## DaveCinzano (Aug 2, 2011)

*More...*

The latest newsletter from St Paul's Unlimited Partnership features an article based on the public meetings held in the wake of the riots.

Among the questions-and-answers included is this corker:



> *Question:*
> _Why was I not allowed through police lines to go home? Riot officers would not talk to me and they were rude._
> *
> Response from Chief Superintendent Jon Stratford:*
> Police do not know who is causing trouble immediately, and suspect people who are there are there to cause a disturbance. If people were in the area, they were recommended to go home.



_Emphasis added for the hard-of-reading._


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## TopCat (Aug 2, 2011)

How are the police doing in their hunt for all the rioters? They seemed to be after most of the West Country at one point?


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## BlackArab (Aug 2, 2011)

DaveCinzano said:


> The latest newsletter from St Paul's Unlimited Partnership features an article based on the public meetings held in the wake of the riots.
> 
> Among the questions-and-answers included is this corker:
> 
> ...



Brings to mind Catch-22 doesn't it!


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## BlackArab (Aug 2, 2011)

Haven't heard of many arrests lately, others may know different. Some of those arrested on the night have been brought to trial and convicted included CONVICTED RACIST David Foster (the twat with the mohican on top of the squat) who is now being supported by the Bristol Anarchists


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## DaveCinzano (Aug 2, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Brings to mind Catch-22 doesn't it!


 
Or 'police intelligence'


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## BlackArab (Aug 2, 2011)

embree said:


> I'll be interested to see what they do with that three grand or so they got from the posters and which Bansky apparently felt uneasy about giving to the defendents' campaign. If that's true, he can fuck off too



did you ever find out what happened to the money?


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## stuff_it (Aug 2, 2011)

Tis a mystery, could have been spent on anything.


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## embree (Aug 3, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> did you ever find out what happened to the money?


 
been a bit out of touch this summer tbh so no.


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## The39thStep (Aug 4, 2011)

embree said:


> been a bit out of touch this summer tbh so no.


 
How are the Greens that you voted for doing?


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## BlackArab (Aug 4, 2011)

The39thStep said:


> How are the Greens that you voted for doing?



I have hardly heard a peep from Mr Hoyt since he was elected, it's all gone quiet over here. Strange considering one of the biggest topics locally atm is how to address the chronic traffic problems we have in the city. Perhaps someone who voted for him may know different.


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## DaveCinzano (Aug 8, 2011)

I'm sure if you were an organic café proprietor tweeting him offers of free vegan cake you would get a response from him


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## BlackArab (Aug 11, 2011)

DaveCinzano said:


> I'm sure if you were an organic café proprietor tweeting him offers of free vegan cake you would get a response from him



I intend to contact him in relation to Monday night, he needs to start looking beyond Stokes Croft.


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## extra dry (Aug 12, 2011)

DaveCinzano said:


> *More...*
> 
> The latest newsletter from St Paul's Unlimited Partnership features an article based on the public meetings held in the wake of the riots.
> 
> ...


got to love the police, and hate them at the same time...what the UK really needs is more public input..the politicans are just worried about their family, the size of pie available to them.  From what little I know of Tescos and the area and the arrests in the free house dwellers...looks like the full scale riots where only a matter of time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hkCvka1uwuo


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## embree (Aug 16, 2011)

.


----------

