# Dale Farm Travellers site given eviction date...



## Treacle Toes (Jul 4, 2011)

Been on the cards for a while....Just been listening to some interviews with the residents of Dale Farm site saying they were prepared to fight...




> *Dale Farm travellers camp eviction notices served*
> Dale Farm Traveller families began to set up pitches illegally on greenbelt land at Dale Farm in 2001
> Continue reading the main story
> 
> ...




http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-14017865


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## ernestolynch (Jul 4, 2011)

If they were black or Asian the anarcho-trots would be all over them like a rash.


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## Edie (Jul 4, 2011)

Why can't they let them be. Fuck there stupid planning laws.


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## lighterthief (Jul 4, 2011)

What is the reason for the evictions?


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## ernestolynch (Jul 4, 2011)

lighterthief said:


> What is the reason for the evictions?


 
Racism


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## stethoscope (Jul 4, 2011)

Kicking travellers off sites.
Getting tough on squatting.
Housing crisis.
Making benefits harder to access.

The same fucking shit comes around again


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 4, 2011)

ernestolynch said:


> If they were black or Asian the anarcho-trots would be all over them like a rash.


 
The anarchists will be there in force, don't you worry. At the invitation of the residents I mihgt add. I'll be there for one.


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## Treacle Toes (Jul 4, 2011)

ernestolynch said:


> If they were black or Asian the anarcho-trots would be all over them like a rash.


 
So will you be there Ernesto or are you just interested in who you _don't_ think will be there?


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## Ground Elder (Jul 4, 2011)

Only half of Dale Farm (formerly a scrap yard) is to be evicted - around 50 of the 100 families living were granted planning permission before 2000 when Basildon Council decided to reverse their previous support for the development and refuse any further applications. Potential sites have been identified, which the residents would happily move to, but Basildon Council has refused to cooperate. There are no other sites in the area where the Travellers could legally stop and what is likely to happen after they are kicked off Dale Farm will be eviction after eviction from where ever they manage to pull on. Under these circumstances the families have little choice but to stay at Dale Farm for as long as they can manage.

A-Z of Dale Farm
Dale Farm blog


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## Lo Siento. (Jul 4, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> So will you be there Ernesto or are you just interested in who you _don't_ think will be there?


 
I know people ern would consider "anarcho-trots" who've been involved in supporting Dale Farm. FWIW


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## gunneradt (Jul 5, 2011)

lighterthief said:


> What is the reason for the evictions?


 
er - they broke the law


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## rover07 (Jul 5, 2011)

lighterthief said:


> What is the reason for the evictions?



They were given planning permission for 50 caravans but decided to take the piss by building plots for 100+ caravans.


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## gunneradt (Jul 5, 2011)

BBC Essex interviewed an erstwhile gentleman this morning on the breakfast show - it was hilarious - sounded like a cross between Worzel Gummidge and Gerry Adams


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## stethoscope (Jul 5, 2011)

rover07 said:


> They were given planning permission for 50 caravans but decided to take the piss by building plots for 100+ caravans.


 
What are they supposed to do though? This government is reversing all of the previous ones work with local councils to provide proper traveller sites - the last government did at least recognise the problem that travellers faced. And if travellers actually return to the road they then get hounded to fuck from one county to the next. I don't see how they can win tbh.


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## rover07 (Jul 5, 2011)

stephj said:


> What are they supposed to do though? This government is reversing all of the previous ones work with local councils to provide proper traveller sites - because they recognisef the problem that travellers faced. And if travellers actually return to the road they then get hounded to fuck from one county to the next. I don't see how they can win tbh.



If they had played it smart then they could easily have bought similar sites. 

Why not make the site into a beautiful, pleasant place to live instead of a fucking eyesore?


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## Ground Elder (Jul 5, 2011)

They did buy alternative sites - they were refused planning as well, which is one of the reasons Dale Farm grew as it did.

They haven't broken any laws by developing the site and applying for retrospective planning. Their continued occupation only becomes illegal after midnight of 31st August.


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## stethoscope (Jul 5, 2011)

rover07 said:


> If they had played it smart then they could easily have bought similar sites.
> 
> Why not make the site into a beautiful, pleasant place to live instead of a fucking eyesore?


 
I was under the impression that buying similar sites just wasn't that easy but even when they did, they can't get any planning permission:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2011/mar/25/dale-farm-travellers-eviction-basildon




			
				guardian said:
			
		

> Under Labour, councils were obliged to provide a certain number of sites for Travellers alongside regular housing in their development plans. Basildon was supposed to provide 84 pitches in addition to the 100 authorised (mostly privately owned) pitches it already has.*But the coalition has signalled it will scrap these regional targets, so councils are disregarding them. Basildon council says instead it will provide three new pitches each year to meet demand. South Cambridgeshire district council has no plan to provide or approve any Gypsy sit es at all, despite having more caravans than any other local authority in the country.*






			
				guardian said:
			
		

> When McCarthy and her relatives pulled up at Dale Farm 10 years ago it appeared an ideal solution to the problem of life on the road. McCarthy, a great-grandmother, remembered the scrap yard from her travelling days because it was a rare place where they could pull up and get water. Adjacent to the busy dual carriageway around Basildon, with pylons overhead and two catteries for neighbours, the scrap yard was far from idyllic. That suited the Travellers: with a large Gypsy site next door where residents had obtained planning permission in the 1970s, they believed they would be left alone. They were wrong.*After 10 years of failed planning applications and the opposition of neighbours and Conservative-run Basildon council, the 400 residents of Dale Farm are now a 28-day eviction notice away from being thrown off their land.*


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## Callie (Jul 5, 2011)

rover07 said:


> Why not make the site into a beautiful, pleasant place to live instead of a fucking eyesore?


 
More Barratt homes maybe?


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## gunneradt (Jul 5, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> They did buy alternative sites - they were refused planning as well, which is one of the reasons Dale Farm grew as it did.
> 
> They haven't broken any laws by developing the site and applying for retrospective planning. Their continued occupation only becomes illegal after midnight of 31st August.


 
you try building an extension and getting planning permission after.


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## Ground Elder (Jul 5, 2011)

people do so all the time gunneradt - I've got a press cuttings file to prove it


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## gunneradt (Jul 5, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> people do so all the time gunneradt - I've got a press cuttings file to prove it


 
maybe but they risk having it pulled down.  No local residents want them there Im afraid.  The BBC pointed out that taxis take the kids to school- why should the taxpayer fund that?


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## Callie (Jul 5, 2011)

school buses and school bus routes - get rid of those too.


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## Ground Elder (Jul 5, 2011)

> maybe but they risk having it pulled down.


As does any Traveller who applies for retrospective planning. 

No idea why the children might be getting taxis to school and without the relevant information it is hard to comment.


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## likesfish (Jul 5, 2011)

the thing is buy cheap land without planning permission and thats what happpens.
 people get houses pulled down all the time even if they hide them for ten years in a haystack


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## gunneradt (Jul 5, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> As does any Traveller who applies for retrospective planning.
> 
> No idea why the children might be getting taxis to school and without the relevant information it is hard to comment.


 
I know a couple of teachers who teach kids from there and it's not easy - and that's an understatement.


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## stethoscope (Jul 5, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> I know a couple of teachers who teach kids from there and it's not easy - and that's an understatement.


 
Teachers don't have a particularly easy time teaching kids anywhere - so not sure what your point is really.


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## gunneradt (Jul 5, 2011)

stephj said:


> Teachers don't have a particularly easy time teaching kids anywhere - so not sure what your point is really.


 
They do round here mainly


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## Giles (Jul 5, 2011)

I don't object to these people buying a cheap field and then building / living on it, really. 

Just so long as I can do the same thing - pay £50,000 for a field in idyllic countryside in an area where the smallest house costs hundreds of thousands, and then tow a semi-permanent "park home" onto the middle of it one weekend, and connect the water and leccy. Bingo - country home with land for less than £100K.

Either everyone should be allowed to settle on a field if they want, disregarding the planning rules, using the above method, or else no-one should get away with this, and we must all obey the rules.

We can't have different rules for "travellers" than for other people.

How do you a define a traveller anyway - can anyone become one by getting a caravan and travelling? For how long?

Giles..


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## DrRingDing (Jul 5, 2011)

Rah rah fucking rah farmer Giles.


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## Giles (Jul 5, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Rah rah fucking rah farmer Giles.


 
Thanks for the response!

I am serious about this, though: there are loads of areas of England where most of the kids of the locals can no way afford to buy a house in the area in which they grew up - so why not just let people build or place static caravans or park homes or whatever on cheap-to-buy farmland? 

It is not just "travellers" who find it difficult to find a place to settle down at a reasonable, affordable cost.

Maybe we should just have a free for all - buy a field and build your home on it. 

Beats having to save up for years / borrow off your folks / never get to live in a nice area.

Giles..


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## DrRingDing (Jul 5, 2011)

Travellers have suffered a long history of bigotry and discrimination that runs to this very day.

If it was any other minority most people would be up in  arms. As it's travellers most people will turn a blind eye.


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## Wolveryeti (Jul 5, 2011)

If they are 'travellers' why are they up in arms about having to travel?


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## DrRingDing (Jul 5, 2011)

Really?


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## rover07 (Jul 5, 2011)

At the moment, I have no sympathy for them. About a dozen traveller families recently turned up in our local park and proceeded to churn the place into mud with their vans and fucking BMW 4x4s.

They left a load of rubble and waste in the local woods, including chopping down some of the trees. They left leaving their crap with broken glass over the grass.

Fucking rich tossers IMO.


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## Wolveryeti (Jul 5, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> Travellers have suffered a long history of bigotry and discrimination that runs to this very day.
> 
> If it was any other minority most people would be up in  arms. As it's travellers most people will turn a blind eye.


 
They're a 'minority' in the same way that non-doms are a minority.


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## DrRingDing (Jul 5, 2011)

Wolveryeti said:


> They're a 'minority' in the same way that non-doms are a minority.


 
Are they?


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## Wolveryeti (Jul 5, 2011)

If you take an article about non-doms in the Guardian and replace the word 'non-dom' with 'Jew', you'll probably be shocked to your core.


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## DrRingDing (Jul 5, 2011)

You're such a wag.


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## rover07 (Jul 5, 2011)

Callie said:


> More Barratt homes maybe?



No. But most caravan parks are beautiful places.

What have the Travellers done with Dale Farm? They have concreted it over and strewn it with rubbish. Is it any wonder the local council have turned down their planning applications.


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## miss.w (Jul 5, 2011)

We have a permanent travellers settlement a few miles away from us down here, they are able to have all the facilities of 'brick' homes and they're generally most pleasant group of people who keep themselves to themselves. Why can other areas.not offer the same level of decency to travellers who wish to settle. Give them refuse collections etc and treat them with respect and there will be no stupidness. 

All this serves in doing is segregating the travelling community further and it is ridiculous.


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## rover07 (Jul 5, 2011)

miss.w said:


> We have a permanent travellers settlement a few miles away from us down here, they are able to have all the facilities of 'brick' homes and they're generally most pleasant group of people who keep themselves to themselves. Why can other areas.not offer the same level of decency to travellers who wish to settle. Give them refuse collections etc and treat them with respect and there will be no stupidness.
> 
> All this serves in doing is segregating the travelling community further and it is ridiculous.


 
If travellers had a decent level of respect for those they wish to settle amongst then maybe they would get a better reception.


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## Ground Elder (Jul 5, 2011)

> Either everyone should be allowed to settle on a field if they want, disregarding the planning rules, using the above method, or else no-one should get away with this, and we must all obey the rules. We can't have different rules for "travellers" than for other people.


 They haven't 'got away with it' they are being evicted. The only reason planning applications are succeeding in places where conventional bricks and mortar would not get permission is because Local Authorities have failed in their duty to make provision for Gypsy and Traveller accommodation. This duty includes identifying suitable land for sites in their area. 

Gypsies and Travellers know that the planning system is not fair - until recently 90% of Gypsies and Traveller applications were refused compared to around 20% non-Gypsy and Traveller applications. They are people trying to find a way of solving their own housing crisis without relying on the state. 



> If they are 'travellers' why are they up in arms about having to travel?


 because they know that what they face is a future of frequent evictions, disruptions to their children's education and health care, a complete lack of security and the possible break up of their family support network. 

I'm more than aware that that some groups of Travellers are anti-social, thieving bastards, but I also know that the majority of Gypsies and Travellers are just want to get on with their lives, making a better future for their families and are as pissed off with actions of the minority as the rest of us.


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## 8115 (Jul 5, 2011)

This really is getting a little bit close to ethnic cleansing for my liking.  Shoddy.


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## Ground Elder (Jul 6, 2011)

Incidentally gunner, I'm curious to know who you know that teaches the Dale Farm kids? Just wondering if we have mutual acquaintances?


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## rover07 (Jul 6, 2011)

If they dont want to travel then they can sell their luxury caravans and Chelsea Tractors and rent a house just like everyone else. Wankers.

Why should they be given special privileges? If open land is going to be made available for temporary camping then it should be available to everyone not just a small closed group.


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## stethoscope (Jul 6, 2011)

rover07 said:


> If they dont want to travel
> ...


 
Successive governments basically put paid to the travelling way of life - like I said earlier. Through the Public Order Act 86 and Criminal Justice Act 94, they were basically hounded from county to county and treated like shit for just wanting to get on with their lives.

The result of this was to herd them into traveller sites where they've then tried to make at least a semi-permanent home out of them. Having done so, they then get more hostility from local people and local government.

One minute they're told they can't go on the move, the next they're then refused permission to build on sites. Finally, they're now reversing the improving situation of site provision. Again - what are they supposed to do?

If anything, governments have driven the whole problems that not only travellers face, but which has then turned into media panic.



rover07 said:


> ...
> they can sell their luxury caravans and Chelsea Tractors and rent a house just like everyone else. Wankers.
> 
> Why should they be given special privileges? If open land is going to be made available for temporary camping then it should be available to everyone not just a small closed group.



So, basically, they're way of life for many generations should basically fall into line with capital and 'the system'. I don't get this attitude at all. In some ways its the same shit levied at people who squat - "I have to rent, or I have to buy therefore why can't they" - well know, you've chosen, like I, to fall into the system. It doesn't mean I won't defend people who don't.

And if travellers are somehow getting 'special privileges' for all of the shit they've faced over the years from the above, then frankly its a 'privilege' I wouldn't want. Not that that's the point anyway.


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## likesfish (Jul 6, 2011)

maybe because 90% of traveller applications are on agricultural land because it was cheap and cheap for a reason no planning permission.
 somehow driving around in vans doing dodgy tarmacking dodgy rubbish clearance and crime isn't a traditional way of life and if it is tough.


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## Giles (Jul 6, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> Gypsies and Travellers know that the planning system is not fair - until recently 90% of Gypsies and Traveller applications were refused compared to around 20% non-Gypsy and Traveller applications. They are people trying to find a way of solving their own housing crisis without relying on the state.


 
Most people's planning apps are for non-controversial things, like building an extension on the back of the house, a garage, changing the style of some windows, altering a shop fascia - which are generally approved.

Traveller's requests to get permission to build on farmland are, obviously, turned down in general. 

If I bought a few cheap farmer's fields and applied for permission to build houses on them, I would get turned down as well.

Either this nifty method of "solving their own housing crisis" is available to everyone, or to no-one.

Giles..


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## stethoscope (Jul 6, 2011)

Giles said:


> Either this nifty method of "solving their own housing crisis" is available to everyone, or to no-one.


 
And what are you doing to create a better and more fairer housing system? Oh wait, you work for a property investment company.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Jul 6, 2011)

rover07 said:


> If travellers had a decent level of respect for those they wish to settle amongst then maybe they would get a better reception.


 
If the people they settled amongst had a decent level of respect for them, then maybe they would return that respect. BTW, if you are opposed to the travelling lifestyle then why do you not support measures to integrate them with the settled community such as granting planning permission?



SpookyFrank said:


> The anarchists will be there in force, don't you worry. At the invitation of the residents I mihgt add. I'll be there for one.



Great! Because this has always helped to bring popular support to an issue.


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## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Been on the cards for a while....Just been listening to some interviews with the residents of Dale Farm site saying they were prepared to fight...
> 
> 
> > Policing the clearance of what is thought to be the largest traveller site in Europe could cost up to £9.5m.
> ...


 
For that amount of money, a new site with another 51 or so pitches could be found nearby (within walking distance). 
Why is this not the preferred option? It would cost much less than £9.5 million to do that.


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## stethoscope (Jul 6, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> For that amount of money, a new site with another 51 or so pitches could be found nearby (within walking distance).
> Why is this not the preferred option? It would cost much less than £9.5 million to do that.


 
Quite. It's never about money/capital though, but political ends.


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## rover07 (Jul 6, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> If the people they settled amongst had a decent level of respect for them, then maybe they would return that respect. BTW, if you are opposed to the travelling lifestyle then why do you not support measures to integrate them with the settled community such as granting planning permission?



I voted Green at the last local elections. One of the commitments of the new Green council is to provide adequate Traveller sites.

But if rich cunts in BMW X5s keep turning up and trashing communal parks then support for traveller sites will evaporate.

I wouldnt have minded if they had parked up for a few days and then left the place in pretty much the same state as when they arrived. 

But they didnt. They deliberately drove at speed across the grass churning it into mud. Open fires were lit on the grass.

And why leave building rubble and piles of crap when you have vans that could be used to take the stuff to waste sites?

Worst was the broken glass from beer bottles, left for local children to play on.

BAD MINDED CUNTS.


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## likesfish (Jul 6, 2011)

explain too me why people who knowingly took piss for years overly the planning rules should be rewarded?


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## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm stepping back from my suggestion to find a nearby pitch for the over-occupancy for the moment as I don't know enough about the situation. 


stephj said:


> Quite. It's never about money/capital though, but political ends.



I doubt that the core issue is simply 'political', on all sides, travellers included, but it definitely is about territory. I do think it's wrong to dismiss the 'money' aspect so readily. On the one hand, we have several clans who've banded together to form what is ostensibly a tribal-village. The residents at Dale Farm have come from all over the country and beyond it to live in that particlar place. They are definitely bound together by kin-based economics, and outside of kin-relations, economics is the second-most important 'thing' that's binding these people together. Living together in one-territory is important for their economy. So territorial politics and a kin-based economy are two highly important considerations here. 

I've just found this: 


> The area at the heart of this dispute, Dale Farm, was first occupied in the Eighties by English gypsies who legally settled on part of the land, securing planning permission for a permanent site.
> 
> In the early Nineties, this legal site grew further until there were 37 plots. At the time there was harmony between the village and the gypsies — but that changed dramatically a decade ago.
> 
> ...


Apologies for the link to the Mail.


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 6, 2011)

rover07 said:


> I voted Green at the last local elections. One of the commitments of the new Green council is to provide adequate Traveller sites.
> 
> But if rich cunts in BMW X5s keep turning up and trashing communal parks then support for traveller sites will evaporate.
> 
> ...


 
I met a black guy the other day and he gave me a nasty look. From this it only seems reasonable to assume that all black guys are cunts.

Interestingly, if you were to assume that 'everyone with a BMW X5 is a cunt' instead of 'all travellers are cunts' then you'd actually be right.


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## stethoscope (Jul 6, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> I doubt that the core issue is 'political', on all sides, travellers included. I do think it's wrong to dismiss the 'money' aspect so readily.



Well, you said:



invisibleplanet said:


> For that amount of money, a new site with another 51 or so pitches could be found nearby (within walking distance).
> Why is this not the preferred option? It would cost much less than £9.5 million to do that.



All I'm saying (and agreeing I thought?) is that it doesn't make sense to spend £9.5 million on an operation to evict them and clear the site. It would be surely be cheaper/more productive to spend money instead on providing more sites (and then grant planning permission). This is essentially what Labour were doing in government. That's why I say from a council perspective, it's not about money, but politics.


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## likesfish (Jul 6, 2011)

it does'nt but the travellers have pushed and pushed and been told no at every  stage.
 they failed not been good neighbours of course its going  to end badly.


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## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

The idea of another site being found nearby was suggested purely on a cost-to-taxpayer basis and to avoid splitting up the community. 
Having read more about the situation, it seems that the Dale Farm 'village' isn't something that could be split up easily and it's clear that it's a distressing thought for the residents there. 

Looking at the map, there's barely any land available locally. No doubt the A127 and south-eastern location is a lifeline for the economy of the site. 
A Brownfield site could  be located and offered. The only nearby empty site that could accommodate them all nearby is here: 51.589476,0.513268. The land is probably owned by Courtaulds and would need remediating before occupancy, giving everyone on Dale Farm time to adjust to what will be a big change. The name 'Dale Farm' could go with them too. A purpose-built school/community room/playground/allotments onsite could be part of the deal.

Their partially-black economy needs to be brought into the system from which they draw benefits.

The above as a solution (to  my mind) is preferable to shunting them on and the chaos that will absolutely ensue as a result of shunting them on.

A complete cessation of hostilities to existing Cray's Hill residents is also high priority.


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## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

likesfish said:


> it does'nt but the travellers have pushed and pushed and been told no at every  stage.
> they failed not been good neighbours of course its going  to end badly.


 
Avoiding a 'war' would seem the better option.


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## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

Also important to note - they're not travellers - they're settlers, and they want to settle.


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## Wolveryeti (Jul 6, 2011)

Plymouth Council's Social Inclusion Unit's Gypsies and Travellers Mythbuster makes for some interesting reading. 

According to their definition anyone can become a traveller provided they come up with some hippy bullshit to go with it.



> *Who are the New Travellers? *
> This is the youngest group, with roots in the 20
> th century. Many of the adults have grown up in mainstream society, and are
> aware of their entitlements to education, health and other
> ...



Also hark at this:


> Planning law defines Gypsies and Irish Travellers as
> people with a travelling way of life. Whilst this is historically
> true, 90% of Gypsies and Travellers around the world now
> live in houses.



So it seems that this group is not only incredibly vaguely defined, but they are happy to discard the more inconvenient aspects of their culture (like travelling) if they become inconvenient (i.e. when that juicy bit of green belt land comes up). 



miss.w said:


> We have a permanent travellers settlement a few miles away from us down here, they are able to have all the facilities of 'brick' homes and they're generally most pleasant group of people who keep themselves to themselves. Why can other areas.not offer the same level of decency to travellers who wish to settle. Give them refuse collections etc and treat them with respect and there will be no stupidness.


Respect is earnt. Pay council tax and in most cases you will get rubbish collections, council goodwill etc. Use local services and return nothing but the rubbish and shit in the sites you leave behind you, and you will (unsurprisingly) get short shrift.


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## fractionMan (Jul 6, 2011)

New age travellers are completely different in law than irish travellers and gypsies.  Not that you give a fuck about anything other than your prejudged view of anyone under the traveller label.


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## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> New age travellers are completely different in law than irish travellers and gypsies.  Not that you give a fuck about anything other than your prejudged view of anyone under the traveller label.


 
Indeed they are. IME 'New' travellers don't choose to settle readily, although most I've met do dream of the day that they can live lightly on the land in one form or another.


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## fractionMan (Jul 6, 2011)

Also, he's picked and chosen all the things that confirm his prejudices and ignored the rest.  How surprising.

eta: In fact he's gone as far as directly contradicting the bits he doesn't like, including the "A very small number of Gypsies and Travellers receive benefits…" section.


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## Wolveryeti (Jul 6, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> New age travellers are completely different in law than irish travellers and gypsies.  Not that you give a fuck about anything other than your prejudged view of anyone under the traveller label.



Oh really? Maybe you should have a read of this then, especially: 



> This community does not
> receive the protection of the
> Race Relations
> (Amendment) Act 2000, but
> ...



But you should probably not listen to me. Everything I have to say is prejudged and made-up just like everyone else who has bad things to say about travellers.


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## fractionMan (Jul 6, 2011)

Wolveryeti said:


> Oh really? Maybe you should have a read of this then, especially:
> 
> 
> 
> But you should probably not listen to me. Everything I have to say is prejudged and made-up just like everyone else who has bad things to say about travellers.


 
like the benefits shite you just posted?

fwiw, I'm familiar with what you've just quoted.


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## Wolveryeti (Jul 6, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> eta: In fact he's gone as far as directly contradicting the bits he doesn't like, including the "A very small number of Gypsies and Travellers receive benefits…" section.


 I don't mention benefits at all, tool box


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## fractionMan (Jul 6, 2011)

Or the section reading 



> All Gypsies and Travellers living on a local authority or
> privately owned sites pay council tax, rent, gas, electricity,
> and all other charges measured in the same way as other
> houses.



Fuck off.  You're fucked.


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## fractionMan (Jul 6, 2011)

Wolveryeti said:


> I don't mention benefits at all, tool box


 
Sorry, that was some other idiot.  You're ranting about taxes instead.  Same deal.


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## Wolveryeti (Jul 6, 2011)

Clearly the point I was making about council tax (as is clear to anyone who is not an imbecile) is not that all gypsies don't pay council tax, but that perhaps the 'failure' of councils who don't provide rubbish collection is more a reflection of it not having been paid for, rather than a purely spiteful act of discrimination and disrespect.


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## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> Sorry, that was some other idiot.  You're ranting about taxes instead.  Same deal.



The Daily Mail quote mentioned benefits: 






			
				Mail said:
			
		

> One single mother living on benefits was found to be a director of a firm registered in Calais specialising in the construction of roads and sports grounds. Others were found to be involved with the bulk importation of furniture from Poland.
> 
> Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ypsy-city-Essex-wont-fight.html#ixzz1RJvH5rGJ



In response to that, it's only fair that what looks glaringly like a partially-black economy should be brought into the system from which this community draws benefits. They're renting out pitches to each other and claiming housing benefit. Some are claiming to be 'single mothers' and drawing state support whilst clearly acting as director for their father/brother/partner's business in what can only be a tax-fiddle. I know they're just trying to survive like everyone else in this country, but if that's not making a mockery of tax/benefits system, I don't know what is.


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

Wolveryeti said:


> Clearly the point I was making about council tax (as is clear to anyone who is not an imbecile) is not that all gypsies don't pay council tax, but that perhaps the 'failure' of councils who don't provide rubbish collection is more a reflection of it not having been paid for, rather than a purely spiteful act of discrimination and disrespect.


 If they're claiming housing benefit for the legal pitches, then they'll be claiming council tax benefit too.


----------



## silverfish (Jul 6, 2011)

Law abiding David Essex types, every last one of them


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 6, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> The Daily Mail quote mentioned benefits:
> 
> In response to that, it's only fair that what looks glaringly like a partially-black economy should be brought into the system from which this community draws benefits. They're renting out pitches to each other and claiming housing benefit. Some are claiming to be 'single mothers' and drawing state support whilst clearly acting as director for their father/brother/partner's business in what can only be a tax-fiddle. I know they're just trying to survive like everyone else in this country, but if that's not making a mockery of tax/benefits system, I don't know what is.



yes, the report about "one single mother" in the daily mail clearly indicates everyone under the traveller banner is on the rob.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 6, 2011)

Wolveryeti said:


> Clearly the point I was making about council tax (as is clear to anyone who is not an imbecile) is not that all gypsies don't pay council tax, but that perhaps the 'failure' of councils who don't provide rubbish collection is more a reflection of it not having been paid for, rather than a purely spiteful act of discrimination and disrespect.


 
Don't try and wheedle out of it.  Next up in your woeful post:



Wolveryeti said:


> Plymouth Council's Social Inclusion Unit's Gypsies and Travellers Mythbuster makes for some interesting reading.
> ...
> Also hark at this:
> 
> ...



They're not. They're very well defined as ethnic minorities.  In fact the document you linked to has a definition you dishonest fuck.


----------



## stethoscope (Jul 6, 2011)

Like I've ever trusted anything the Fail or the tabloids print about travellers - whether gypsy or new age.


----------



## kained&able (Jul 6, 2011)

8115 said:


> This really is getting a little bit close to ethnic cleansing for my liking.  Shoddy.



errrr, you mean apart from the mass killing bit. behave.



dave


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> yes, the report about "one single mother" in the daily mail clearly indicates everyone under the traveller banner is on the rob.


Don't take what was said to the extreme and nowhere has that been said, apart from by you. Clearly there's a partially black economy, as well as a great deal of 'creative accounting'. This type of behaviour can be found in any community, settled or otherwise. 

It's a mistake by calling them travellers though. These are people who want to settle - if they're moved on, they'll become travellers again.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 6, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> Don't take what was said to the extreme - but clearly there's a partially black economy, as well as a great deal of 'creative accounting'. This type of behaviour can be found in any community.


 
This is pretty much my point.  But travellers (especially single mum travellers) get more stick for it than the builder who does cash in hand, the person paying them or the executive fiddling his pension.  Because they're 'different', because they're _outsiders_.


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> This is pretty much my point.  But travellers (especially single mum travellers) get more stick for it than the builder who does cash in hand or the executive fiddling his pension because they're 'different'.


 
Again, where is the suggestion that all 'single mum' travellers are getting more stick for it. Single mums get alot of stick from the powers that be anyway - portrayed as young, when the reality is most single mums are over 30, were previously in a partnership that broke-down and didn't become mothers with the idea of then becoming single and raising the kid/s mainly by themselves with barely any support - emotionally or financially - from the father of their child/ren. 

Afaics, only these particular settled 'single mums' claiming benefits who are also the directors of a legitimate company are under fire in this instance. And rightly so. 

And again, they're settlers, not travellers. They want to settle. They don't want to be split up/moved on again.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 6, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> Again, where is the suggestion that all 'single mum' travellers are getting more stick for it. Only these settled 'single mums' who are also the directors of a legitimate company are under fire. And rightly so. And again, they're settlers, not travellers. They want to settle.


 
How about the ever so representative daily mail quote you saw fit to post?

It's about as useful as me telling you all the travellers I know have jobs and none of them are on the fiddle.


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> How about the ever so representative daily mail quote you saw fit to post?


I apologised in advance for the source! Directing your ire at me isn't very productive. 


> It's about as useful as me telling you all the travellers I know have jobs and none of them are on the fiddle.


All the (new) travellers I know have jobs and none of them are on the fiddle either. Some have settled now, mind you, and some have passed on, but then I'm probably older than you.

And again, the Dale Farm 'village' site-dwellers are settlers, not travellers.


----------



## Wolveryeti (Jul 6, 2011)

LOL. What's the betting that 'Fractionman' has never lived within a country mile of a pitch? I reckon while on the internet he will claim some of his best friends are gypsies etc. though.


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

Wolveryeti said:


> LOL. What's the betting that 'Fractionman' has never lived within a country mile of a pitch? I reckon while on the internet he will claim some of his best friends are gypsies etc. though.


 
I have been on many Gypsy and Fairground traveller sites. All were scrupulously clean.
I've lived on temporary (new) traveller sites. Very well thought out from the outset, and aside from the shit-pits and minor detritus (pre-ring pull change era), you'd not know they'd been there.  
I've dealt personally with the brew crew - they have substance and alchohol problems - we gave them somewhere for a couple of weeks out of sheer pity for them - cos they're a mess emotionally - everywhichway - had to remind them to move on and gave them a couple of days to sober up, but they did move on without any trouble - they were just grateful for somewhere to pitch for a while.
I've known of folk who've DJ'd to a gathering of disenfranchised 'lost young men' (mostly young men) with serious substance-abuse problems - they're almost invisible to townies like you, cut off from their families. I have one very good friend who was one of those 'disenfranchised lost young men with serious substance-abuse problems' - he  fell out of a prestigious university in the 80s  into a directionless drug-hazed nightmare of an existence for several years.  

Don't lecture either me or fractionMan on travellers please.


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 6, 2011)

Wolveryeti said:


> LOL. What's the betting that 'Fractionman' has never lived within a country mile of a pitch? I reckon while on the internet he will claim some of his best friends are gypsies etc. though.


 
You massive twat


----------



## likesfish (Jul 6, 2011)

UK prison population approx 0.0125% of population
 traveller population in jail roughly between 2 and 10% with half that for property theft.
  they are defintly more likely to be on the rob than the settled community.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 6, 2011)

Wolveryeti said:


> LOL. What's the betting that 'Fractionman' has never lived within a country mile of a pitch? I reckon while on the internet he will claim some of his best friends are gypsies etc. though.


 
have you? or was it some bloke down the pub?
you lying odious shitbag


----------



## ddraig (Jul 6, 2011)

likesfish said:


> UK prison population approx 0.0125% of population
> traveller population in jail roughly between 2 and 10% with half that for property theft.
> they are defintly more likely to be on the rob than the settled community.


 
link to your claims?


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 6, 2011)

likesfish said:


> UK prison population approx 0.0125% of population
> traveller population in jail roughly between 2 and 10% with half that for property theft.
> they are defintly more likely to be on the rob than the settled community.


 
yeah, just like blacks in america eh?


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

Wolveryeti said:


> LOL. What's the betting that 'Fractionman' has never lived within a country mile of a pitch? I reckon while on the internet he will claim some of his best friends are gypsies etc. though.


 
I'll take a bet that your prejudices have you fearful of groups of people whose lives are markedly different to yours.


----------



## Wolveryeti (Jul 6, 2011)

ddraig said:


> have you? or was it some bloke down the pub?
> you lying odious shitbag


I have, actually. When I was growing up I lived on the street next to Bush road in Hackney which was used as a pitch by gypsies for many months. They threw shit and rubbish into our gardens, abstracted water mains, and were generally a pain. 

It's why I don't snap-judge people with bad things to say about the traveller community as fantasists or racists.


----------



## likesfish (Jul 6, 2011)

http://www.iprt.ie/contents/2138
http://www.blog.travellerstimes.org.uk/?tag=prison
http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/content/view/full/106172

no daily hate or otherwise  links


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

Wolveryeti said:


> I have, actually. When I was growing up I lived on the street next to Bush road in Hackney which was used as a pitch by gypsies for many months. They threw shit and rubbish into our gardens, abstracted water mains, and were generally a pain.
> 
> It's why I don't snap-judge people with bad things to say about the traveller community as fantasists or racists.



Well your ma/pa ought to have gone to the headwoman/headman and brought up the trouble of rubbish being chucked into your garden with her/him


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2011)

likesfish said:


> maybe because 90% of traveller applications are on agricultural land because it was cheap and cheap for a reason no planning permission.
> somehow driving around in vans doing dodgy tarmacking dodgy rubbish clearance and crime isn't a traditional way of life and if it is tough.


 
So, nothing to do with the long-standing practice (which was already happening when my dad was a schoolboy 60 years ago) of excluding travellers from buying developable land? Nothing to do with every land agent saying "sorry, we've already sold that plot" or stopping the sale if they found out that it was "Gypsy" money buying a housing plot?

Grow up.


----------



## wemakeyousoundb (Jul 6, 2011)

lovely round here :/


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> For that amount of money, a new site with another 51 or so pitches could be found nearby (within walking distance).
> Why is this not the preferred option? It would cost much less than £9.5 million to do that.


 
Because Essex, like most of the counties, are more interested in reneging on their social obligations.


----------



## lighterthief (Jul 6, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> Well your ma/pa ought to have gone to the headwoman/headman and brought up the trouble of rubbish being chucked into your garden with her/him


Point of course being you shouldn't have to, if people are considerate in the first place.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2011)

kained&able said:


> errrr, you mean apart from the mass killing bit. behave.
> 
> 
> 
> dave



Ethnic cleansing has never *specifically* just been about killing, dave. It's historically been about shifting populations


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Because Essex, like most of the counties, are more interested in reneging on their social obligations.



Uh huh. I even looked at the map ^^
There isn't alot of space down there anyway


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

lighterthief said:


> Point of course being you shouldn't have to, if people are considerate in the first place.


 
A gender specific communication to either headman by pa, or headwoman by ma to sort it out, kindly, respectfully - that works. 
I know it does work and please don't try to tell me that it doesn't.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2011)

likesfish said:


> UK prison population approx 0.0125% of population
> traveller population in jail roughly between 2 and 10% with half that for property theft.
> they are defintly more likely to be on the rob than the settled community.


 
Now why would that be, do you think?


----------



## lighterthief (Jul 6, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> A gender specific communication to either headman by pa, or headwoman by ma to sort it out, kindly, respectfully - that works.
> I know it does work and please don't try to tell me that it doesn't.


I'm not saying it wouldn't, but why should you have to in the first place?

Anyway, this is probably one of these issues that a) gets blown out of proportion and b) would no doubt be massively helped if proper rubbish disposal/sanitation facilities were provided to travelling communities in the first place.


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

lighterthief said:


> I'm not saying it wouldn't, but why should you have to in the first place?


Because it's the only way - jaw-jaw not war-war.


----------



## A Dashing Blade (Jul 6, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Ethnic cleansing has never *specifically* just been about killing, dave. It's historically been about shifting populations


 
Absolutely correct, as long as only "force or intimidation" is used.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 6, 2011)

invisibleplanet said:


> Because it's the only way - jaw-jaw not war-war.


 
Bloody hippy anarcho-pacifists!


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 6, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Bloody hippy anarcho-pacifists!


 
 gtf


----------



## Ground Elder (Jul 6, 2011)

Giles said:


> Traveller's requests to get permission to build on farmland are, obviously, turned down in general. If I bought a few cheap farmer's fields and applied for permission to build houses on them, I would get turned down as well. Either this nifty method of "solving their own housing crisis" is available to everyone, or to no-one.


 Out of my window  I can see 25 houses being built on what was until last month a farmer's field. Planning permission was granted to the private developer, changing the land use from agricultural to residential, without a hitch. I'd be be prepared to bet any money that if a Gypsy or Traveller had put in an application to develop 25 pitches they would have been turned down. 

They then would have had to either give up, appeal the decision, or put in a substantially different application. In the meantime they would have continued living on the roadside, without water, sanitation or electricity and under constant threat of eviction. Or maybe they'd get lucky and be able to squeeze onto a dangerously over crowded site somewhere else. 

It can take years of appeals, public inquiries, further appeals and so on before a final decision is made, which will take its toll emotionally and financially. 

Or they could move onto the land and apply for retrospective planning, knowing that even though their application will be turned down at least they will have somewhere secure to live while the legal process grinds on. I know what route I'd take.



invisibleplanet said:


> For that amount of money, a new site with another 51 or so pitches could be found nearby (within walking distance). Why is this not the preferred option? It would cost much less than £9.5 million to do that.


 A new site wouldn't necessarily have cost Basildon Council a penny as the Travellers are quite prepared to pay for it themselves.


----------



## likesfish (Jul 6, 2011)

yes thats what pisses off the neighbours local community who have been fucked around by the local council when wanting an extentison.
  Brighton and hove regualry gets parks wrecked by travellers and a sea front carpark monoplosied by travellers


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 6, 2011)

likesfish said:


> yes thats what pisses off the neighbours local community who have been fucked around by the local council when wanting an extentison.
> Brighton and hove regualry gets parks wrecked by travellers and a sea front carpark monoplosied by travellers


 
Wouldn't happen if more sites were made available to them.


----------



## likesfish (Jul 6, 2011)

its catch 22 nobody wants to have a traveller site next to them because of the behaviour of travellers but travellers have few options.
 although travellers trashing the offical  sitein brighton hasn't really helped things


----------



## ddraig (Jul 6, 2011)

councils have a statuatory duty to provide accommodation so what do you suggest?


----------



## likesfish (Jul 6, 2011)

if councils actually did what they had to  which is apprantly really really difficult and expensive 
  this problem could be solved .
 although travellers would have to use the sites it could be done.  Though moving from one offical campsite to another isn't really being a nomad but thats not really doable in a lot of the UK


----------



## gunneradt (Jul 6, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> Incidentally gunner, I'm curious to know who you know that teaches the Dale Farm kids? Just wondering if we have mutual acquaintances?


 
quite possibly


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 7, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Bloody hippy anarcho-pacifists!



Didn't know Churchill was a bloody hippy anarcho-pacifist! I live and learn


----------



## silverfish (Jul 11, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-14097779

More cultural activities, not bad just different


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 11, 2011)

what


----------



## fractionMan (Jul 12, 2011)

silverfish said:


> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-14097779
> 
> More cultural activities, not bad just different


 
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/threads/352038-Pony-beaten-into-Hampshire-lake-dies

twat


----------



## stethoscope (Jul 17, 2011)

Don't know what it will be like, but BBC1 Thursday 10.35PM...

"The Big Gypsy Eviction"
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012rgck



> Dale Farm in Essex is the largest Travellers' site in Europe. For ten years, fifty families have illegally occupied green belt land they own, but are not supposed to live on. For ten years, the local council has been trying to evict them, but only now - after a bitter campaign that has gone all the way to the House of Lords - is the climax to this battle in sight. A twenty-eight day notice to quit has been issued: either the Travellers move out peacefully, or an army of bailiffs and police will move in. Almost 10 million pounds have been set aside to fund the eviction.
> 
> For six years, film-maker Richard Parry has been filming all sides in this conflict. He has filmed the lives and stories of the Travellers on site - the extended clan of matriarchs Marianne McCarthy and Mimi Sheridan, their children and grandchildren. They say they will not leave Dale Farm without a fight; there are piles of gas canisters at the entrance, and four hundred angry Travellers who vow to meet force with force. Grattan Puxon, an activist who has fought the Gypsies' cause for fifty years, is on site directing resistence.
> 
> ...


----------



## Ground Elder (Jul 17, 2011)

Richard Parry made a well balanced 3 part series called Gypsy Wars a few years ago. Shame about the title - the people getting evicted are Irish Travellers not Gypsies.


----------



## BlackArab (Jul 17, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> Richard Parry made a well balanced 3 part series called Gypsy Wars a few years ago. Shame about the title - the people getting evicted are Irish Travellers not Gypsies.



That's TV all over for you. Surprised they didnt call it My Big Fat Pikey Battle.


----------



## r0bb0 (Jul 21, 2011)

time to put the telly on


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## ddraig (Jul 21, 2011)

cheers!


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 21, 2011)

stephj said:


> Don't know what it will be like, but BBC1 Thursday 10.35PM...
> 
> "The Big Gypsy Eviction"
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b012rgck


 
Relevant!  Critical watching/reading required though, as always!


----------



## 8115 (Jul 21, 2011)

Interesting the relationship between travellers/ gypsies and non-traveller/gypsy (not sure what the preferred word is) activists.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 21, 2011)

8115 said:


> Interesting the relationship between travellers/ gypsies and non-traveller/gypsy (not sure what the preferred word is) activists.


 
What did you find interesting?


----------



## invisibleplanet (Jul 21, 2011)

BBC - The Bug Gypsy Eviction: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b012rgck/The_Big_Gypsy_Eviction/


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## treelover (Jul 22, 2011)

'Interesting the relationship between travellers/ gypsies and non-traveller/gypsy (not sure what the preferred word is) activists.'


What activists?, there were only a handful, i am baffled why this proposed eviction is not getting more support form the 'activist' community, many who will normally turn up at every protest going.

Oh, and i thought the older women filmed in this doc had real integrity and passion, though I am worried about the flame throwers...


----------



## kenny g (Jul 22, 2011)

treelover said:


> though I am worried about the flame throwers...


 
I don't know why, they looked quite effictive to me.


----------



## 8115 (Jul 23, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> What did you find interesting?


 
The lack of trust.  The way that the travellers preferred to just move on when push came to shove, and it was the activists opposing the bailiffs.  Whose battle is it?


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 27, 2011)

http://www.tmponline.org/2011/08/26/dale-farm/

*



			WATER AND ELECTRICITY TO BE CUT
		
Click to expand...

*


> The Council have released information that they intend to cut water and electricity supplies from Dale Farm after the eviction notice period expires on midnight 31st August. This will leave sick, elderly, young, and pregnant residents without access to water or electricity. *Amnesty International* have condemned the removal of vital water and electricity in these circumstances, and asked their supporters to put pressure on the council to cease this action which represents a serious violation of human rights. An injunction has been sought in consideration of two residents who are dependent upon a constant electricity supply for nebulisers, without access to which their lives are placed in serious jeopardy. *See Amnesty’s Kartick Raj speaking to BBC Essex this week.*


----------



## likesfish (Aug 27, 2011)

Wish they'd deal with the fuckers who've wrecked our local park by leaving commercial rubbish all over it again and are staying put for a wedding cunts.


----------



## OneStrike (Aug 27, 2011)

Anyone been past lately? i was just reading about the protest camp on good old Ceefax, it indicates supporters are coming from around Europe but doesn't mention numbers.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 27, 2011)

ta
fucking cunts! 
this from SchNEWS


> Also, notices have gone up along Oak Road, adjacent to Dale Farm, saying that the road will be closed to all but residents from Friday, Sept. 2nd.  Both ends of Oak Road will be blocked (blocking access via both Hardings Elm Road and Gardiners Lane North). Additionally, the lay by on the southern end of Oak Lane (leading on to the A127; by the white ‘Basildon onion’ water tower) will be blocked. There will be a no stop zone on the footpaths on the A127 between A176 at Billericay and A132 at Wickford. Residents are feeling under siege, with children asking how many more nights they are going to be able to sleep in their beds. Dale Farm is a big site, so it should be possible to find routes in, but be advised that after Sept. 1, it will be harder to get in, and likely impossible to get vehicles in.


http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news785.php


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## treelover (Aug 27, 2011)

not many there yet..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-14694415


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## treelover (Aug 27, 2011)

'It is feared the total cost of evicting travellers from the site will be as much as £17.5 million.'

says it all...


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 28, 2011)

likesfish said:


> Wish they'd deal with the fuckers who've wrecked our local park by leaving commercial rubbish all over it again and are staying put for a wedding cunts.



And where are they supposed to fuckin' go then?


----------



## likesfish (Aug 28, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> And where are they supposed to fuckin' go then?


 Don't really fucking care.
 considering whats been left for the umpteen time is not just their rubbish but piles of commercial waste
 the cunts are in top of the range caravans being pulled by new range rovers my tolerance for their nomadic lifestyle seems to be illegal fly-tipping is limited.
   This happens time and time again they don't give a shit about anybody else so fuck em.
  at least new age travellers


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 28, 2011)

blah blah blah


----------



## likesfish (Aug 28, 2011)

So just because you don't like what I'm saying.
Travellers turn up in my local park wreck the pitches leave piles of commercial waste behind. It's happened time and time again but settled types should appeciate there culture


----------



## stuff_it (Aug 28, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> i was just reading about the protest camp on good old Ceefax


What's it like back there in the 90s?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 28, 2011)

likesfish said:


> So just because you don't like what I'm saying.
> Travellers turn up in my local park wreck the pitches leave piles of commercial waste behind. It's happened time and time again but settled types should appeciate there culture



You're part of the problem, not the solution!


----------



## likesfish (Aug 28, 2011)

sorry some traveller's decide the laws don't apply to them or choose to ignore them then wonder why nobody likes them.


----------



## Red Storm (Aug 30, 2011)

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/30/vanessa-redgrave-dale-farm-travellers

Venessa Redgrave supports Dale Farm


----------



## Anudder Oik (Aug 30, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> You're part of the problem, not the solution!



So, can't he complain about people dumping rubbish?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Aug 31, 2011)

He can say what the fuck he wants.


----------



## Giles (Aug 31, 2011)

If they were to be allowed to stay, having broken the law, then presumably anyone at all could solve their housing problem by simply buying a cheap field, and parking a giant mobile home trailer on it, and announcing that they were a traveller who was all done with travelling for the foreseeable, and needed a place to stay?

I think that this would solve the housing crisis in pretty short order, although it would inevitable make the countryside look very different with the fields dotted with trailer and park homes, singly or in clusters.

To be fair, then either the current planning laws must apply to everyone, or to no-one.

I'd like a little pad in the middle of some nice countryside, but I can't afford one. I could, however, afford to buy some agricultural land or woodland, and then another £20K or so for a big mobile home trailer to plonk on it.

Should I be allowed to do this? And if I can't do it, why should someone else be treated differently because of their cultural or ethnic background?

Giles..


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 31, 2011)

Yes, yes, Giles, we got your point the first time you posted it.

Now, do you have any solution to the the problem?


----------



## Giles (Aug 31, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Yes, yes, Giles, we got your point the first time you posted it.
> 
> Now, do you have any solution to the the problem?



My view is that if we are not going to have a free-for-all whereby people can build semi-permanent camps anywhere they like, then illegal camps like this should not be allowed.

So, they are going to have to go.

Where? I am not sure. Maybe this lifestyle of "being a traveller" and yet wanting somewhere permanent to settle down just doesn't make sense?

How is a "traveller" who actually wants to put down permanent-ish roots somewhere, and not actually "travel" logically different to anyone else, really?

Apart from their assertion of a "right" to plonk large mobile homes and caravans down where they want?

Maybe they could buy, or rent, somewhere to live just like everyone else does?

Giles..


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 31, 2011)

Yeah, like there's no growing homelessness problem, there's no housing stock shortage, there's plenty of housing for everyone and everything is rosy.

At least it is in Giles' garden.


----------



## claphamboy (Aug 31, 2011)

The daft thing is that only last week the government has suggested one answer to the housing shortage is that more people should live on houseboats and are offering councils financial incentives to allow more moorings for houseboats on waterways.

Shapps urges councils to increase houseboat moorings.

So, why not do the same for proper licensed traveller sites?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Aug 31, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/aug/30/vanessa-redgrave-dale-farm-travellers
> 
> Venessa Redgrave supports Dale Farm



Perhaps the lovely Vanessa could buy a house surrounded by a large plot of land and let the travellers live there?  Then they'd all be happy.


----------



## Libertad (Aug 31, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Perhaps the lovely Vanessa could buy a house surrounded by a large plot of land and let the travellers live there? Then they'd all be happy.



You really worked on that post didn't you?

I've put a lot of thought into this as well... Go fuck yourself shit for brains.


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## ElizabethofYork (Aug 31, 2011)

Don't you want Vanessa or the travellers to be happy?  That's not very nice.


----------



## fractionMan (Aug 31, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> The daft thing is that only last week the government has suggested one answer to the housing shortage is that more people should live on houseboats and are offering councils financial incentives to allow more moorings for houseboats on waterways.
> 
> Shapps urges councils to increase houseboat moorings.
> 
> So, why not do the same for proper licensed traveller sites?



BW is actively _discouraging_ liveaboard boaters who do not have moorings (er, the travelling ones) to the point of soon having the legislation changed so they can more easily remove their boats from the waterways. They absolutely _don't_ want travellers. What they want in people in boats that never move packed into marinas, something akin to floating caravan parks.

However, this talk of new _residential_ moorings is bollocks. The overwhelming vast majority of moorings in this country do not have residential planning permission and that's unlikely to change. People living on them are in a grey area that is currently overlooked by local councils. BW is 50 million a year short of cash (thanks to cuts) so need to increase revenue from moorings to simply keep the waterways wet.

re: dale farm, a friend of mine is off to the site this weekend to help out.  It's fucking atrocious what's going on.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 31, 2011)

Giles said:


> If they were to be allowed to stay, having broken the law, then presumably anyone at all could solve their housing problem by simply buying a cheap field, and parking a giant mobile home trailer on it, and announcing that they were a traveller who was all done with travelling for the foreseeable, and needed a place to stay?
> 
> I think that this would solve the housing crisis in pretty short order, although it would inevitable make the countryside look very different with the fields dotted with trailer and park homes, singly or in clusters.
> 
> ...


the reason you won't go and buy a bit of land and plonk a caravan on it is because you
1. have a choice
2. were not born into a traveller family, and
3. are driven by money and status (what with being a scum landlord)
so your property and things define you and you wouldn't be seen dead in a caravan outside the south of france.

so instead of saying "well what would happen if we all did it" strawman bullshit, have some guts and admit you are prejudiced
or shut up


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## Giles (Aug 31, 2011)

ddraig said:


> the reason you won't go and buy a bit of land and plonk a caravan on it is because you
> 1. have a choice
> 2. were not born into a traveller family, and
> 3. are driven by money and status (what with being a scum landlord)
> ...



I am not prejudiced. This is a completely baseless accusation from you.

So, you don't have an answer to the points I raised, and instead resort to a personal attack on me, making three points, the first two of which are correct in that I already have a house to live in, and obviously I am not from a "traveller" family. Your third point, that I am "driven by money and status" is baseless, and wrong.

Anyway, leaving me personally aside, there are millions of ordinary people in the UK who are unable to afford a house, especially in nice areas of countryside where houses are very expensive.

Do you think that THEY should all be allowed to buy themselves a field, and then live on it, in a caravan/trailer home, etc?

Or only "travellers"?

And if the latter, why?

Giles..


----------



## fractionMan (Aug 31, 2011)

You are prejudiced, as demonstrated by several years of posting on here.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 31, 2011)

Giles said:


> I am not prejudiced. This is a completely baseless accusation from you.
> 
> So, you don't have an answer to the points I raised, and instead resort to a personal attack on me, making three points, the first two of which are correct in that I already have a house to live in, and obviously I am not from a "traveller" family. Your third point, that I am "driven by money and status" is baseless, and wrong.
> 
> ...


you are a landlord, of course you are driven by money
you mention it a lot so you do enjoy the "status"
as FM says, you have demonstrated over many years and posts that you are prejudiced

as for your other non point, the vast majority of THEM would share the same reasons for not doing so as you.
please point out where I have said that travellers or anyone should be able to build wherever.
and after that, what is your solution? (other than extermination of course)


----------



## Giles (Aug 31, 2011)

ddraig said:


> you are a landlord, of course you are driven by money
> you mention it a lot so you do enjoy the "status"
> as FM says, you have demonstrated over many years and posts that you are prejudiced
> 
> ...



Where have I stated that I am "prejudiced" against travellers or gypsies?

I work for myself running a couple of businesses. One is the sale and hire of communications kit, the other is renting some houses out annually to uni students. Everyone has to earn a living - is everyone earning a living, or even everyone working for themselves, "driven by money" then? And is this a pejorative term? And why is my job or living relevant to the question I asked?

Do you think that people in general should all be allowed to buy themselves a field, and then live on it, in a caravan/trailer home, etc?

 Or only "travellers"?

 And if the latter, why?

Giles..


----------



## Deareg (Aug 31, 2011)

Unless there are some valid reasons, then I don't see why anyone should not be allowed to buy a field and then live on it


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## roctrevezel (Aug 31, 2011)

Looking at the "travellers" tooling up for war (making petrol bombs) on BBC News 24 just now I wonder if this is going to be Cameron's "Battle of the Beanfield."


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## Giles (Aug 31, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Looking at the "travellers" tooling up for war (making petrol bombs) on BBC News 24 just now I wonder if this is going to be Cameron's "Battle of the Beanfield."



If they are "tooling up" with petrol bombs and other weapons, then it won't be much like the Beanfield.

There, the travellers did not get tooled up or make petrol bombs etc, they just got beaten up by the police.

Giles..


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 31, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Unless there are some valid reasons, then I don't see why anyone should not be allowed to buy a field and then live on it



Not least when today's paper tells us that the tories are in the process of changing the planning laws to reduce public consultations and local authority control in favour of letting developers build whatever the fuck they want. Green belt protections, ostensibly the cause of the whole Dale Farm debacle, are to be weakened. These changes are not being brought in to make it easier for people to build their own homes of course, but rather to enable developers to print yet more money without being hamstrung by social or environmental concerns or the opinions of those affected by development.

So at Dale Farm we have people who have built small, one-storey homes for themselves and their families on otherwise useless land, and they are the bad guys. Meanwhile developers continue to maul towns and cities up and down the country with their foul yuppie tower blocks designed for a largely non-existant market which price locals out of their own neighbourhoods and upset the social and economic apple cart in a variety of highly depressing ways. These people are wealth creators, forward-thinking visionaries and exactly the kind of people this country needs. Could someone explain that to me again?


----------



## Garek (Aug 31, 2011)

Radio 4 the other day during an interview with one of the residents: "How can you call yourself a traveller when you no longer travel?" 

I think the Tory scum councillors should be evicted rather than these guys.


----------



## dylanredefined (Aug 31, 2011)

Spending 20 million on smacking some gypsies around seems idiotic.Accept you lost this time. Legalize it cut down on benefit abuse and address the problems of the community.Seems a lot cheaper and a better way.


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## stuff_it (Aug 31, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> The daft thing is that only last week the government has suggested one answer to the housing shortage is that more people should live on houseboats and are offering councils financial incentives to allow more moorings for houseboats on waterways.
> 
> Shapps urges councils to increase houseboat moorings.
> 
> So, why not do the same for proper licensed traveller sites?


Lots of travelling folk have had to move onto boats. It's quite expensive to get a half decent one if you don't have any skillz to do it up yourself though.

TBF they don't like it when people are self sufficient for work and live on their own land, as they can't so easily keep tabs on them. This applies to all manner of travellers as well as eco-hippies.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 31, 2011)

Giles said:


> Where have I stated that I am "prejudiced" against travellers or gypsies?
> 
> I work for myself running a couple of businesses. One is the sale and hire of communications kit, the other is renting some houses out annually to uni students. Everyone has to earn a living - is everyone earning a living, or even everyone working for themselves, "driven by money" then? And is this a pejorative term? And why is my job or living relevant to the question I asked?
> 
> ...


did you read my post? 

we are all beholden to money to a certain extent and some of us have to get it to have roofs over our heads and food on the table.
the majority do not seek or have the funds to extend that to owning and renting properties out to others tho, do they? thus you will be more 'driven' by money than most.

also as someone who has surplus property don't you think you've got a bit of a nerve saying where people should and shouldn't live?

I am not advocating special treatment for travellers, show me where i have or stop asking the same question.
and what is your solution? beyond 'assimilate, become normal or die off'

e2a - your job is not relevant and i don't care about it. the fact that you are a landlord is relevant however.


----------



## _angel_ (Aug 31, 2011)

Wolveryeti said:


> I have, actually. When I was growing up I lived on the street next to Bush road in Hackney which was used as a pitch by gypsies for many months. They threw shit and rubbish into our gardens, abstracted water mains, and were generally a pain.
> 
> It's why I don't snap-judge people with bad things to say about the traveller community as fantasists or racists.


Yeah I've had neighbours do shit like that too, but they weren't travellers or gypsies.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 31, 2011)

Today's court case ruled against the residents of Dale Farm and refused to grant an injunction to prevent the eviction. One resident has been granted an extra seven days' grace on the grounds of ill health, everyone else is liable to feel a boot in their arse at any point from midnight tonight.


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## fractionMan (Aug 31, 2011)

It's gonna be messy imo.


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## AKA pseudonym (Aug 31, 2011)

Dale Farm families could be evicted from midnight tonight
Posted on August 31, 2011 by dalefarmsupport
The last remaining legal barrier between the eviction of 50 families from their homes at Dale Farm has now fallen. The emergency injunction we sought, which would have delayed the planned eviction, has not been granted. This means that, from midnight tonight, the bailiffs can come at any time. The ...homes of the Dale Farm families are at risk.

Now is the time to make your stand with in solidarity with Dale Farm.
Please come down to Camp Constant – the more people we have, the more powerful our message and the more we can support the residents to resist the eviction. Sign up to the sms eviction alert system at https://smsalerts.tachanka.org/dalefarm/ . Dale Farm is only 30 minutes by train from London Liverpool Street Station. The atmosphere at Dale Farm is inspiring — for some video of residents and supporters celebrating and learning together, see http://dalefarm.wordpress.com/2011/08/30/two-communites-celebrating-together/

This weekend at Dale Farm (in addition to site consturction and other activities):

On Saturday, Sept 3rd, noon: Jewish Solidarity visit — it’s important that cultures with a shared history of oppression support each other when our fundamental human rights face being breached. That is why this Saturday, Jewish rabbis, citizens and activists will be on a special blockade in support of residents at Dale Farm.

There is a workshop, on Sunday Sept. 4th, 2pm: Freedom of Movement and the Right to Stay! This is the rallying cry for Roma, Gypsies and Travellers and of migrants throughout the world. A common thread of persecution, of forbidden lands, eviction and deportation connect the struggles for migrant rights and the rights of Gypsies and Travellers. These realities have met dramatically in the crack-down and deportations of Roma people from France and Italy. Come to the Workshop organised by No One Is Illegal and London No Borders including a speaker who is an activist in Amnesty International’s campaign against the persecution of Roma in Europe.

TELL EVERYONE ABOUT THE DEMO: Sat, 10th Sept, 1pm, see here for more information and email: savedalefarm@gmail.com to add your group’s support to the list…

If you can’t come down, you can help in other ways:
- spread the word on Twitter (@letdalefarmlive) on Facebook (search ‘Dale Farm Solidarity’)
- talk about it to your friends
- comment online – all the newspapers are carrying the story and the majority of comments are negative
- donate: http://dalefarm.wordpress.com/donate/


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## Giles (Aug 31, 2011)

ddraig said:


> did you read my post?
> 
> we are all beholden to money to a certain extent and some of us have to get it to have roofs over our heads and food on the table.
> the majority do not seek or have the funds to extend that to owning and renting properties out to others tho, do they? thus you will be more 'driven' by money than most.
> ...



I did read your post. You made several pretty irrelevant and inaccurate assertions about me.

The reason I asked the same question is because you did not answer it.

It is pretty key to the whole thing, because if the local councils allow "travellers" to set up illegally, and then just legalise it later, because it would be too difficult / too expensive / nasty to enforce the law, then you are giving one group of people special treatment, which is unfair.

Giles..


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## ddraig (Aug 31, 2011)

do you think the millions put aside for this eviction is money well spent?

a solution would be for councils to provide proper pitches then wouldn't it!


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## treelover (Aug 31, 2011)

Why are No Borders conflating this with the Eastern European Roma in Europe, these people have been in the UK for decades and the issues are different, its bandwagon jumping, imo...


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 31, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> It's gonna be messy imo.



It's one of those cases where I strongly suspect the powers that be of deliberately provoking a ruck to make the other side look bad. The last few times the police and their political chums have tried this tactic it's gone badly wrong for them, but that doesn't mean they'll not try it again. The trouble is that the police are inherently and fundamentally a violent organisation, so whenever there's a violent confrontation they are generally the ones who lose control and start doing really fucking evil things to people.

There is no happy ending to this, that much is certain. Lives will be ruined, blood most likely shed. Is any of this really important enough to justify that? Do the nice folk of Basildon council go to sleep at night secure in the knowledge of a job well done, knowing the shitstorm they've unleashed?


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## ddraig (Aug 31, 2011)

treelover said:


> Why are No Borders conflating this with the Eastern European Roma in Europe, these people have been in the UK for decades and the issues are different, its bandwagon jumping, imo...


how are they doing that?


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## Ground Elder (Aug 31, 2011)

ddraig said:


> do you think the millions put aside for this eviction is money well spent? a solution would be for councils to provide proper pitches then wouldn't it!


The solution would be for Basildon Council to work with the Sheridans and their supporters to identify suitable land in the area for Traveller families to buy and develop at their own expense. Which is all that they have asked from the Council. They are not asking for anyone to provide pitches other than themselves.


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## ddraig (Aug 31, 2011)

yes, agreed GE

i meant other councils in general also


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 31, 2011)

ddraig said:


> do you think the millions put aside for this eviction is money well spent?
> 
> a solution would be for councils to provide proper pitches then wouldn't it!



A solution would have been for county councils and other local authorities not to have closed down and disposed of park-up sites over the last 20+ years (especially post- the "new age travellers" moral panic).


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## ddraig (Aug 31, 2011)

that too! agreed VP


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 31, 2011)

ddraig said:


> that too! agreed VP



When I was a kid in the early '70s my dad used to drive us up to his parents in North Norfolk for the school summer holidays. You used to pass park-ups and sites all the way through Essex, Suffolk and Norfolk, literally dozens of them. Last time I went that route by car, in about 1998, the only ones I saw (2) were near Newmarket, and Newmarket had (historically, at least) pretty much accepted a constant traveller presence because it provided a decent amount of casual labour for the racing and training set-ups.


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## likesfish (Aug 31, 2011)

This was coming for years whoever was in charge at Dale farm either had shit advice for thought they could call the laws bluff
 either way it was obvious how it was going to end.


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## Anudder Oik (Aug 31, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Unless there are some valid reasons, then I don't see why anyone should not be allowed to buy a field and then live on it



Bye bye green belt, hello speculation...


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## Deareg (Aug 31, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Bye bye green belt, hello speculation...


I think that green belt could possibly fall under the title valid reason.


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## likesfish (Aug 31, 2011)

they did for  the farmer who hid his house for 10 years under hay bales so no way was this going to work.
     Visit Peacehaven  near Brighton if you want to see what an unplanned development is like utterly soulless no real services took 50 odd years to get a secondary school.


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## claphamboy (Aug 31, 2011)

ddraig said:


> do you think the millions put aside for this eviction is money well spent?
> 
> *a solution would be for councils to provide proper pitches then wouldn't it*!



This is something that Giles continues to ignore & indeed fails to knowledge, whilst repeating time & again his position that they shouldn't be allowed to just pitch-up anywhere & ignore planning regulations, a position I agree with.

The different between me & Giles, is that I understand they don't have much fucking choice under the circumstances and that needs addressing, whereas Giles just bangs on about them renting houses like everyone else, when there isn't enough fucking housing to go around.


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## Anudder Oik (Aug 31, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I think that green belt could possibly fall under the title valid reason.



A field is a field. When you put something in it like a permanent caravan park or build a car park it becomes something else. I think the fields left in the UK now should be protected whether they fit into the category of green belt or not. A free for all would be an ecological disaster.

Local councils are always looking for an excuse to speculate with land and will change it's status if possible from "protected" to "sellable".

As for the Gypsies they obviously need some form of official temporary campsites so they can move around, but buying their own land to settle permanently, which is not a legal option for everyone, seems to be speculative on their part, IMO.


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## Deareg (Aug 31, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> A field is a field. When you put something in it like a permanent caravan park or build a car park it becomes something else. I think the fields left in the UK now should be protected whether they fit into the category of green belt or not. A free for all would be an ecological disaster.
> 
> Local councils are always looking for an excuse to speculate with land and will change it's status if possible from "protected" to "sellable".
> 
> As for the Gypsies they obviously need some form of official temporary campsites so they can move around, but buying their own land to settle permanently, which is not a legal option for everyone, seems to be speculative on their part, IMO.



Many fields are nothing more that illegal rubbish dumps and quite often are a hazard to both people and animals, allowing people to build permanent or temporary dwellings on them will often improve the environment and also help to reduce the long waiting lists for social housing. You are the only person who has mentioned free for all building on any fields,
The only people who don't seem to have any problem building anywhere that they want are developers, councils will always look for loopholes to allow them to build, money talks.

The only reason that they have started buying up land to pitch up on is because successive governments have made it virtually impossible for them to halt temporarily.


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## Ground Elder (Aug 31, 2011)

Dale Farm was a scrapyard not a field.


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## Anudder Oik (Aug 31, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Many fields are nothing more that illegal rubbish dumps and quite often are a hazard to both people and animals, allowing people to build permanent or temporary dwellings on them will often improve the environment and also help to reduce the long waiting lists for social housing. You are the only person who has mentioned free for all building on any fields,
> The only people who don't seem to have any problem building anywhere that they want are developers, councils will always look for loopholes to allow them to build, money talks.
> 
> The only reason that they have started buying up land to pitch up on is because successive governments have made it virtually impossible for them to halt temporarily.



Turning countryside into a rubbish dump is a tactic to pave the way for speculation, so is burning down woodland (in Spain). rather than allowing speculators to build it would be better to clean up the said field and restore it to its former beauty.

These quotes are both yours, I am confused.



> Unless there are some valid reasons, then I don't see why anyone should not be allowed to buy a field and then live on it





> You are the only person who has mentioned free for all building on any fields


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## Deareg (Aug 31, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Turning countryside into a rubbish dump is a tactic to pave the way for speculation, so is burning down woodland (in Spain). rather than allowing speculators to build it would be better to clean up the said field and restore it to its former beauty.
> 
> These quotes are both yours, I am confused.



I have no doubt that that could be true in some cases, but find it hard to believe that every abandoned field that I have seen is the result of some massive conspiracy

I have no idea what it is that is confusing you.


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## ViolentPanda (Aug 31, 2011)

Anudder Oik said:


> Turning countryside into a rubbish dump is a tactic to pave the way for speculation...



To be frank it's natural behaviour for a lot of farmers. Why pay good money to have a knackered piece of machinery towed or trailerd to the scrappie when you can just dump it in a corner of one of your own fields?


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## campanula (Aug 31, 2011)

lots of dilemmas here - there is a traveller site  down the road from me and tbf, it is truly disgusting. The actual caravans are immaculate but the area outside is a shit-strewn mess of turds and scrap metal. They burnt out my friend who was renting a field next door because they had been used to keeping their horses there. Working for many years for Women's Aid has left me with a pretty jaundiced view of traveller misogyny and the cultural differences make reconciliation very difficult since both sides have deep distrust and no respect for each others way of life. So yeah, I admit to a personal predjudice and would not like to live at the end of a road where 500 travellers had set up. BUT, this has been going on for years and Basildon seems to have failed to come up with anything other than confrontational legal tactics which are utterly doomed to fail. The issue of housing is thorny and is not going to go away - questions of minority rights, cultural difference really just muddies the water, causes kneejerk reactions and is in no way helpful. There are going to be numerous battles over land-use especially since the need for affordable housing is likely to become more politically charged - there is a huge desire amongst young people right now to 'buy a bit of land and live on it'  in a sustainable, low-impact way. No question, planning regulations will be put under the microscope but, sadly, personal fears and assumptions have completely rendered this argument too emotive. I fear that any chance of peaceful resolution was probably lost several years ago but can only see that the authorities had a degree of power which they either misused or just got lazy and complacent until the situation escalated into something which benefits nobody.


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## strange-fish (Aug 31, 2011)

They have a community - elderly, young, teanagers etc, and the complex relationships that go with all that - how many people still have that? I am not condoning or condeming, but our govt condones the lifestyle they live (marriage, family, community) ??  Just a thought.


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## Giles (Aug 31, 2011)

Maybe we should just let rip, anyone can buy their field, and live on it, build on it, whatever? It would make everyone's houses cheaper, and a lot easier for folk to get started. Bye bye traditional views of rolling countryside though..... although why is this such a biggie compared with giving people what they want and need? If people want to see views of how the countryside used to be, they can watch DVDs of it. Like watching stuff about dinosaurs. OK, we'll be living in a sort of endless suburb, but who cares, really? But everyone could buy a little patch of England and build their house, bungalow, shack, park home on it for cheap.....

Giles..


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## treelover (Sep 1, 2011)

Campanula, thats a very honest post and does you credit

though i am not sure there are hordes of young people just waiting to go back to the land just yet, in the future, absolutely


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## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

Giles said:


> Maybe we should just let rip, anyone can buy their field, and live on it, build on it, whatever? It would make everyone's houses cheaper, and a lot easier for folk to get started. Bye bye traditional views of rolling countryside though..... although why is this such a biggie compared with giving people what they want and need? If people want to see views of how the countryside used to be, they can watch DVDs of it. Like watching stuff about dinosaurs. OK, we'll be living in a sort of endless suburb, but who cares, really? But everyone could buy a little patch of England and build their house, bungalow, shack, park home on it for cheap.....
> 
> Giles..


that strawman of yours has been answered already
and noted that you haven't actually answered about alternatives and whether the money set aside to evict is proportionate
and again, you have a bloody cheek what with owning surplus property that you profit from
fuck off you cretin

good luck to those in Dale Farm tonight and over the coming days, nights, weeks and months


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## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

rush out and buy it giles!
*http://twitpic.com/6e556p*
*@suttonnick*


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## fractionMan (Sep 1, 2011)

I know plenty of farmers who manage to build all sorts of shit on their green belt fields with the help of planning lawyers, so I have no idea why giles is so resentful of a bunch of people just trying to live their lives in an ex scrap yard.


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## roctrevezel (Sep 1, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> I know plenty of farmers who manage to build all sorts of shit on their green belt fields with the help of planning lawyers, so I have no idea why giles is so resentful of a bunch of people just trying to live their lives in an ex scrap yard.



Many aspects of agriculture require no planning permission or already have a legal dispensation. (This is being reviewed.)


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## DownwardDog (Sep 1, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> The different between me & Giles, is that I understand they don't have much fucking choice under the circumstances and that needs addressing, whereas Giles just bangs on about them renting houses like everyone else, when there isn't enough fucking housing to go around.



469 houses to rent within 5 miles of Basildon according to rightmove. Grant them retrospective planning permission and then sting them for masses of council tax would be the smart move. It could all be invested in lovely local services.


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## fractionMan (Sep 1, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Many aspects of agriculture require no planning permission or already have a legal dispensation. (This is being reviewed.)



Exactly. Build a few beehives/stables/whatever. Wait, what's that? You produce food/employ people? Well that means you need a kitchen, and a bathroom for the workers, which means a building. What's that, business didn't work out? Convert it to another use! Takes a few years but job done. With the right lawyer, you now have a house.

One rule for the farmers eh Giles?


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## roctrevezel (Sep 1, 2011)

DownwardDog said:


> 469 houses to rent within 5 miles of Basildon according to rightmove.



But at how much per month? (Bearing in mind the ConDems are cutting housing benefits, and homelessness has been rising dramatically since the end of March do to cuts in the money councils give to various homelessness charities.)


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## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

ddraig said:


> do you think the millions put aside for this eviction is money well spent?
> 
> a solution would be for councils to provide proper pitches then wouldn't it!


Most councils do, but not enough, and normally only in one place for all travellers in a given area so they will normally be entirely taken up by one or another group of travellers from that area. Often these will also have a long waiting list where you are expected to park illegally, are only available to families with ties to the area already, etc. Factor in that Roma won't share washing facilities or toilets with Gaijin, the fact that most Irish travellers and Roma won't put up with a load of new age hippies without a bit of tension at least, that Irish travellers would be horrified that the women from a new travelling family might all work and even support the family entirely, and you can see where there starts to be a problem. Certainly no councils have yet provided three large separate lots of legal pitches, lest every traveller in the UK go live there.

There is of course also a total lack of 'short term parkups' for people that do actually still move around a fair bit, unlike parts of Europe, never mind that 'common land' has been done away with....

/rantmode


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## fractionMan (Sep 1, 2011)

That ^^

I'm having this discussion on canalworld at the moment.


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## SpookyFrank (Sep 1, 2011)

Giles said:


> Maybe we should just let rip, anyone can buy their field, and live on it, build on it, whatever? It would make everyone's houses cheaper, and a lot easier for folk to get started. Bye bye traditional views of rolling countryside though..... although why is this such a biggie compared with giving people what they want and need? If people want to see views of how the countryside used to be, they can watch DVDs of it. Like watching stuff about dinosaurs. OK, we'll be living in a sort of endless suburb, but who cares, really? But everyone could buy a little patch of England and build their house, bungalow, shack, park home on it for cheap.....
> 
> Giles..



There is a happy medium somewhere, and it involves setting planning policy at a local level not a national level. It would also involve cutting out the corruption and the deranged economic voodoo that allows people to build two bedroom apartments that go for £300,000 a pop in areas where unemployment is 20% and the social housing waiting list extends to Pluto and back.


----------



## cool herc (Sep 1, 2011)

campanula said:


> lots of dilemmas here - there is a traveller site down the road from me and tbf, it is truly disgusting. The actual caravans are immaculate but the area outside is a shit-strewn mess of turds and scrap metal. They burnt out my friend who was renting a field next door because they had been used to keeping their horses there. Working for many years for Women's Aid has left me with a pretty jaundiced view of traveller misogyny and the cultural differences make reconciliation very difficult since both sides have deep distrust and no respect for each others way of life. So yeah, I admit to a personal predjudice and would not like to live at the end of a road where 500 travellers had set up. BUT, this has been going on for years and Basildon seems to have failed to come up with anything other than confrontational legal tactics which are utterly doomed to fail. The issue of housing is thorny and is not going to go away - questions of minority rights, cultural difference really just muddies the water, causes kneejerk reactions and is in no way helpful. There are going to be numerous battles over land-use especially since the need for affordable housing is likely to become more politically charged - there is a huge desire amongst young people right now to 'buy a bit of land and live on it' in a sustainable, low-impact way. No question, planning regulations will be put under the microscope but, sadly, personal fears and assumptions have completely rendered this argument too emotive. I fear that any chance of peaceful resolution was probably lost several years ago but can only see that the authorities had a degree of power which they either misused or just got lazy and complacent until the situation escalated into something which benefits nobody.



Messy bastards, they should live in Vanessa Redgrave's big old back garden!


----------



## likesfish (Sep 1, 2011)

There's prejudice against travellers and the theirs experience of the mess they leave behind.

Decide the rest of societys rules and people don't count don't be suprised when the state slaps you down hard.


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## Tankus (Sep 1, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> Dale Farm was a scrapyard not a field.


It was a field ..then it became an illegal scrap yard


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## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> There's prejudice against travellers and the theirs experience of the mess they leave behind.
> 
> Decide the rest of societys rules and people don't count don't be suprised when the state slaps you down hard.


in english?


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## cool herc (Sep 1, 2011)

travellers is a broad term, new agers, gypsies, roma gypsies, irish, caravan club...


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## likesfish (Sep 1, 2011)

I do know a bunch of cunts in caravans have spent the last 2 months wrecking parks in Brighton leaving shit and rubbish form dodgy rubbish clearance scams. garden clearance scams using football pitches as race tracks etc.
 don't fucking care who or what they are I want to see the back of the cunts and if they come back next year I want the police and council to take action and hound them back to where ever the fuck they came from


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## Deareg (Sep 1, 2011)

Some travellers are anti social bastards, most of us know that, But why do some people only notice or only feel the need to pass judgement on any mess or anti social behaviour that comes from minority communities within our society? I have seen and lived on plenty of council estates that are an absolute fucking disgrace in regards to the mess and vandalism and also the anti social behaviour of the residents, we have all seen mobs of football supporters, sometimes numbering thousands, wrecking and looting various cities at home and abroad and attacking anyone unfortunate enough to be caught by them for no reason whatsoever.


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## likesfish (Sep 1, 2011)

probably because this bunch of cunts have shit all over other peoples nests repeatedly while being given soft treatment from the council/police.
 Not all travellers behave like this  the Van dwellers did take the piss.
 but inconvenience is one thing. parking spaces by a park are not permanent places to live in a van on. but they didn't try to turn either of the parks into landfill.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> probably because this bunch of cunts have shit all over other peoples nests repeatedly while being given soft treatment from the council/police.
> Not all travellers behave like this the Van dwellers did take the piss.
> but inconvenience is one thing. parking spaces by a park are not permanent places to live in a van on. but they didn't try to turn either of the parks into landfill.


You haven't answered my question.


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 1, 2011)

Tankus said:


> It was a field ..then it became an illegal scrap yard


an 'illegal' scrapyard that Basildon Council happily used themselves  and prior to 2000 happily encouraged Travellers in applying for planning permission to change the use to residential.


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## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> I do know a bunch of cunts in caravans have spent the last 2 months wrecking parks in Brighton leaving shit and rubbish form dodgy rubbish clearance scams. garden clearance scams using football pitches as race tracks etc.
> don't fucking care who or what they are I want to see the back of the cunts and if they come back next year I want the police and council to take action and hound them back to where ever the fuck they came from


why haven't you been on to the police/council this year? 
or gone after them with some of your normal hard military fantasist type mates? 
they certainly wouldn't mess with YOU again!


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> I do know a bunch of cunts in caravans have spent the last 2 months wrecking parks in Brighton leaving shit and rubbish form dodgy rubbish clearance scams. garden clearance scams using football pitches as race tracks etc.
> don't fucking care who or what they are I want to see the back of the cunts and if they come back next year I want the police and council to take action and hound them back to where ever the fuck they came from


Weird that each time travellers are mentioned you have a convenient prior two months to wheel out isn't it? Almost like you re-invent the same irrelevant lie each time.


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## spawnofsatan (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Weird that each time travellers are mentioned you have a convenient prior two months to wheel out isn't it? Almost like you re-invent the same irrelevant lie each time.



Convenient that you spout your usual lies without checking isn't it...

http://newsfrombrighton.co.uk/brighton-and-hove-news/travellers-damage-patcham-cricket-pitch/


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## likesfish (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Weird that each time travellers are mentioned you have a convenient prior two months to wheel out isn't it? Almost like you re-invent the same irrelevant lie each time.


 because the situation has been going on in brighton for the last 5 years

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ntravenes-human-rights.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

http://www.brighton-hove.gov.uk/index.cfm?request=c1252214

http://www.theyworkforyou.com/whall/?id=2011-06-15a.280.0


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## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

spawnofsatan said:


> Convenient that you spout your usual lies without checking isn't it...
> 
> http://newsfrombrighton.co.uk/brighton-and-hove-news/travellers-damage-patcham-cricket-pitch/



Are you likefish? The one with     spaces? You/him often say when they're an issue like this that *insert example* has happened in the last two months and so you don't care about anything else right now. That's a daft position isn't it? Especially when you're waffling on about responsibility.


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## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> because the situation has been going on in brighton for the last 5 years
> 
> http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ntravenes-human-rights.html?ito=feeds-newsxml
> 
> ...


Not a single one of those links supports that - the only dated ones are from the last few months.


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## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

Can i just check, you're not spawnofsatan then? You're not sockpuppeterring


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## Deareg (Sep 1, 2011)

I can not see any rubbish strewn about in the photo the daily mail links provides.


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## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

any links from the last 2 months with reports of football pitches being wrecked as stated?
ta


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## likesfish (Sep 1, 2011)

http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8492908.Traveller_clean_up_costs_Brighton_thousands/

I've seen the sods drying a van round and round on the wild park football pitches


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## Mr.Bishie (Sep 1, 2011)

I'm not aware of any football pitches being wrecked in Brighton, & i work for the council. The problem we have in Brighton is a minority who do leave their litter. But communal bins are now being put on site for use - & they are being used.
As for the "commercial waste" likesfish speaks about, there are times when piles of green waste are dumped from the seasonal work they do here, year after year. It's collected & composted locally. Maybe the council could allow it to be dumped at the composting site?

Maybe you should take a walk up to Stanmer Park on a Monday morning likesfish, & have a look at the fuckin' shit that's been dropped by members of the public over the weekend. Maybe take some fuckin' bin bags with you & make a start?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 1, 2011)

> According to one support group for gypsies and travellers the council could avoid these costs by building more official camps.



Bingo!


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## Mr.Bishie (Sep 1, 2011)

I'll try & find the figures that City Clean spend on street cleansing operatives per year, picking up the shit that members of the public drop. And as far as the Argus go, they can fuck right off with their right wing crap.


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## Red Storm (Sep 1, 2011)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ulldoze-Europes-largest-illegal-campsite.html

"Anarchists Hijack Traveler Protest"


----------



## likesfish (Sep 1, 2011)

hang I'd quite like to be able to use my local fucking park in the summer rather than have a load of Irish liggers use it as a campsite.
 its time we followed the Irish example and made trespass a criminal offence they can find some other country to pester


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## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> http://www.theargus.co.uk/news/8492908.Traveller_clean_up_costs_Brighton_thousands/
> 
> I've seen the sods drying a van round and round on the wild park football pitches


that is from last year, try again or admit you are lying.
of course you'll have your own pics of the trashed football field from the last few weeks too


----------



## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

and as bishie says
councils spend far far more than that on cleaning up town centres every single weekend

in Cardiff it is so disgusting they have to jetwash whole streets and despite plod being about, people drop their crap everywhere as they know it will be all cleaned up the next morning.

look at these filth!





maciej dakowicz
http://www.flickr.com/photos/maciejdakowicz/sets/1391696/

eating shit from multinational chains that take the piss


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## likesfish (Sep 1, 2011)

anybody else doing gardening work HAS TO PAY TO DISPOSE OF GREEN WASTE.
  got to wild park and see the van tracks


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## Red Storm (Sep 1, 2011)

This thread is worse than the riots one for exposing reactionary fuckwits.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> hang I'd quite like to be able to use my local fucking park in the summer rather than have a load of Irish liggers use it as a campsite.
> its time we followed the Irish example and made trespass a criminal offence they can find some other country to pester


You are filth.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> hang I'd quite like to be able to use my local fucking park in the summer rather than have a load of Irish liggers use it as a campsite.
> its time we followed the Irish example and made trespass a criminal offence they can find some other country to pester


If there were legal temporary park ups they would more than likely stay there - the ones in Europe have showers, loos and running water but I think you aren't meant to stay on any single one more than a few weeks.

With the loss of common land there is zero legal provision for people that move about still, and very little for those that wish to live a traveller lifestyle (of any persuasion) in one place. I can full well understand why they want to live in large groups as well - if you have ever tried to explain to a small child the insults they have heard at school off of the prejudiced locals in schools where traveller kids are in a minority you would understand.

Please refer to the 'squatting to be made a criminal offence' thread for more info on why it would be a bad idea to ban squatting.

Most people would rather not park up in a local park if they had somewhere better to go, and lots probably do park up elsewhere that you never come accross, but the English countryside -especially in the SE - is increasingly fully owned and monitored so there are less and less places to go.

Of course some of the families to be evicted will end up travelling about again for a time - if they have kids in the local school they will more than likely be more of a nuisance to the local area than if they stayed on their own bit of land.

What is it that you find so offensive about people not living in houses? Are you jealous because they are mainly self employed? Because they pay less bills than you? OR just because they are 'different' to what you believe to be the 'right and proper way to live' - well let me tell you to travellers you are just as bad as a fucking tory with your uneducated ill informed prejudice.

/moarrant

I really shouldn't keep looking at this thread...


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> This thread is worse than the riots one for exposing reactionary fuckwits.


Wait till likesfish tells us all again that all muslim taxis drivers are 'legitimate targets'. All the twats are known twats to be honest.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

Red Storm said:


> This thread is worse than the riots one for exposing reactionary fuckwits.


Better than the riots I think you'll find


----------



## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> anybody else doing gardening work HAS TO PAY TO DISPOSE OF GREEN WASTE.
> got to wild park and see the van tracks


blahblah blah, rantrantrant, not going to answer any posters points
of course no one from the non travelling community fly tips do they? nooooo 
NIMBY predjudiced prick
have you got your eyes shut and your fingers in your ears like a 5yr old?


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

Everyone well knows that only evil folk drive vans.



TBF I saw a pikey-wagon round here the other day piled high with resprayed victorian radiators - on the side was written 'Lifting Services' and a mobile number.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Everyone well knows that only evil folk drive vans.
> 
> 
> 
> TBF I saw a pikey-wagon round here the other day piled high with resprayed victorian radiators - on the side was written 'Lifting Services' and a mobile number.


You're also a slumming prick - at least likesfish doesn't pretend.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 1, 2011)

find a spot out of the way park up don't cause a lot of bother not that bothered. New travellers or whatever you want to call  manage to do it without too much mayhem resulting.
 its the ones in new shiny caravans and new 4x4s don't apparently give a shit. Brighton's official transit camp is still empty funny that having to pay to park up seems to be against their rules.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You're also a slumming prick - at least likesfish doesn't pretend.


I don't think you have any clue about who I am or what I do, tbf.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> I don't think you have any clue about who I am or what I do, tbf.


Pikeys, chavs, 'their women', council estates, defending domestic burglary - yeah, i'm pretty sure who you are - even though you self-evidently are not.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> find a spot out of the way park up don't cause a lot of bother not that bothered. New travellers or whatever you want to call manage to do it without too much mayhem resulting.
> its the ones in new shiny caravans and new 4x4s don't apparently give a shit. Brighton's official transit camp is still empty funny that having to pay to park up seems to be against their rules.


see post 241


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## Ground Elder (Sep 1, 2011)

If the transit site in Brighton really was empty when the (Irish?) Travellers were on an unauthorised site, I'd be very surprised if the police didn't direct them to use it.


> Section 62A-E, CJPO Act 1994 (inserted by the Anti-Social Behaviour Act 2003) allows Police to direct trespassers to leave land and remove their vehicles, including caravans, where there is a 'suitable pitch' available for them elsewhere in the Local Authority area. This section also provides powers so that Police may arrest and seize vehicles if the conditions of such a notice are not complied with or if the trespassers return to the same location _[the whole area covered by the Local Authority]_ within a three month period from the date the direction to leave was given.



While many Travellers have no choice but to squat land, most do their best to find somewhere marginal where they have a chance of staying for a while. However, there are groups who really don't give a shit and will park up on school fields, sports pitches and other high profile sites, knowing full well how much this will piss people off - including the local Gypsy and Traveller population who often bear the brunt of the backlash after they've  moved on.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Pikeys, chavs, 'their women', council estates, defending domestic burglary - yeah, i'm pretty sure who you are I- even though you self-evidently are not.


I think with my vast amounts of direct experience this is the last thread you should be calling me out on.

Slumming it? That implies that I could 'choose to do better', when I am perfectly happy with who I am and how I live, who else can say the same?


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 1, 2011)

I wish I still had my Dodge 50.

Great thread!


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> I think with my vast amounts of direct experience this is the last thread you should be calling me out on.
> 
> Slumming it? That implies that I could 'choose to do better', when I am perfectly happy with who I am and how I live, who else can say the same?


You post about how we're all one class and at the same time use words like pikey, chav 'their women' - fuck off, you two faced slummer. Your poor confused little lamb.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 1, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> If the transit site in Brighton really was empty when the (Irish?) Travellers were on an unauthorised site, I'd be very surprised if the police didn't direct them to use it.
> 
> While many Travellers have no choice but to squat land, most do their best to find somewhere marginal where they have a chance of staying for a while. However, there are groups who really don't give a shit and will park up on school fields, sports pitches and other high profile sites, knowing full well how much this will piss people off - including the local Gypsy and Traveller population who often bear the brunt of the backlash after they've moved on.



I'm not 100% sure but i think the transit site is now shut. All marginal pitches have been blocked off with huge concrete barracades - Whitehawk, the race course hill, Shepecote is now caravan club, top of Ditching Road barracaded - there is absolutely nowhere else for them to go other than parks that aren't bunded.


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## twentythreedom (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Pikeys, chavs, 'their women', council estates, defending domestic burglary - yeah, i'm pretty sure who you are - even though you self-evidently are not.



Links please?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> Links please?


Actually, i just made it up.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You post about how we're all one class and at the same time use words like pikey, chav 'their women' - fuck off, you two faced slummer.


^^^Can't tell the difference between social class and self identified social groups. lol.

*points and laughs*


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

twentythreedom said:


> I wish I still had my Dodge 50.
> 
> Great thread!


Oi, I never even posted on 'who wants  a ch***y'!


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> ^^^Can't tell the difference between social class and self identified social groups. lol.
> 
> *points and laughs*


What? Yes, that's right, stuff it thinks that there are groups running around calling themselves the chavs and the pikeys and I_lease let me be working class too._

High minded words butter no parsnips posh girl.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> ^^^Can't tell the difference between social class and self identified social groups. lol.
> 
> *points and laughs*


Can you show me the difference between the two and how chavs, pikeys and their women are  self identified social groups please?


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> What? Yes, that's right, stuff it thinks that there are groups running around calling themselves the chavs and the pikeys and .



and I've just had an idea for a remake of Westside Story


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

If, and i do mean if, anyone cares about why this matters - why the casual racism expressed by stuff it is so sticking in my craw, please read this thread that she started earlier today
'Middle Class' it's basically just a construct isn't it 

wherein she argues that the govt is seeking to force people to construct opposing class identities the better to divide people. And then she goes on about chavs and pikeys and council estates. The fucking idiot. And on a thread that is largely about the end results of this sort of casual racism...jesus christ...connect the dots you clown.


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## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Actually, i just made it up.


^^^^
Chavs do quite often tell themselves so, I know for a fact that a Roma woman would more than likely describe themselves thus (never mind that the point I was making was about the strict gender-role separation that traditional travellers often keep), and 'pikeys' would be considered 'common parlance' for certain traveller groups in most parts of the UK for Irish Travellers and though it denotes a certain few things (a liking for horses, scrap metal, tranist pick ups and Irish flags) that no one who knows me would think it was in any way derogatory.


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Actually, i just made it up.



BA, how you would you respond to a comment like that in reply to request from you for links etc? Come on old boy, you should know better by now...


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

Apologies butchers, for occasionally speaking in the vernacular - you obviously find it hard to deal with.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Apologies butchers, for occasionally speaking in the vernacular - you obviously find it hard to deal with.


If you think the social prejudices that you display in your casual and repated use of chavs and comments about coucils estates and 'their women' can be avoided by the above defence you're very wrong. The sheer hypocrisy evident in your posting that thread this morning and the way you carry on generally is also...well a sign of a confused mind.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> If you think the social prejudices that you display in your casual and repated use of chavs and comments about coucils estates and 'their women' can be avoided by the above defence you're very wrong. The sheer hypocrisy evident in your posting that thread this morning and the way you carry on generally is also...well a sign of a confused mind.


Nothing like as confused as you appear to be.

Perhaps you should 'slum it' some time and see how most people live  and speak.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Nothing like as confused as you appear to be.
> 
> Perhaps you should 'slum it' some time and see how most people live and speak.


This, this is your defence of causal social prejudice - other people of my class do it too.


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 1, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I'm not 100% sure but i think the transit site is now shut. All marginal pitches have been blocked off with huge concrete barracades - Whitehawk, the race course hill, Shepecote is now caravan club, top of Ditching Road barracaded - there is absolutely nowhere else for them to go other than parks that aren't bunded.


As far as I know theHorsedean transit site is still open.

edited to add - it was closed for a while for refurbishment. There's also a ten pitch transit site near Lewes.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> This, this is your defence of causal social prejudice - other people of my class do it too.


There isn't anyone else in my class though. 

I'd quite like not to epically derail this thread, as it is an important and valid issue.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 1, 2011)

I really do hope the Greens can get a grip of this issue - there clearly is not enough seasonal transit space in Brighton.


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 1, 2011)

Brighton does better than most of the UK by providing any transit pitches at all (i.e temporary stopping places rather than residential sites). At the last count there were just 287 transit pitches available in England, with 32 of them on the two sites near Brighton.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I really do hope the Greens can get a grip of this issue - there clearly is not enough seasonal transit space in Brighton.





Ground Elder said:


> Brighton does better than most of the UK by providing any transit pitches at all (i.e temporary stopping places rather than residential sites). At the last count there were just 287 transit pitches available in England, with 32 of them on the two sites near Brighton.


Innit, I am gobsmacked that there is any at all. My personal experience is that there is little or no permanent space anywhere and this 'tranist space' in Brighton is the first I have heard of there being even an attempt at decent provision in the UK.

Where I live at the moment (Bucks) they seem to have taken the option of the council being a lot more sympathetic to planning applications, especially on marginal land (eg near major roads and the like). This seems to work relatively well, but I fear for the kids lungs growing up effectively on a motorway verge.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 1, 2011)

Hopefully they can improve on that number, as there is a problem. If they hadn't barracaded sites two years ago.....


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Hopefully they can improve on that number, as there is a problem. If they hadn't barracaded sites two years ago.....



That would be nice, but with all the recent cuts even keeping a service provided (no matter what service) has to be counted as a win. Sadly these are not the times to be hoping for new provision.

This of course brings us back to Dale Farm, why the hell does anyone think it can possibly be a good idea to spend this much on pushing families into marginal circumstances where they are likely to need more help, when they are fine as they are?


----------



## likesfish (Sep 1, 2011)

While that's fucking useless although it didn't help in Brighton that some travellers trashed the transit site while it was being refurbished. 
Some travellers really need to play well with others.


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## Mr.Bishie (Sep 1, 2011)

The Tory Crusade to fuck as many people over as possible.


----------



## Mr Moose (Sep 1, 2011)

When growing up I lived next door to a 'travelling' community. It was very settled and apart from the odd dog incursion into our garden offered us no trouble whatsoever. I'm absolutely sure that the vast majority of people just want the space to live, though without a doubt there is some anti-social behaviour in parts.

People speak about travellers here in a similar way that some mainstream Australians talk about aboriginal people, 'they don't want to work, just take handouts (even if they don't) etc.' There is a parallel it seems to me in that there is strong rejection of 'ordinary', settled, low wage-slaved industrial life. People who don't wish to work in a huge 'Amazon' warehouse.

In Britain there is now very little room to live on the margins. The 'system' is almost absolute, land pressures huge and to live on the outside is almost a sure bet for conflict.

Clearly there should be dialogue, support, assistance for people. Impromptu settlements are not a solution any side would choose. It's not terribly feasible for any cultural group to live in such isolation, but 'ordinary' society has to provide some accessible resource. We need more sites, more offers of ordinary housing, some kind of social compact and tolerance. Not everyone can live by industrial rules.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> While that's fucking useless although it didn't help in Brighton that some travellers trashed the transit site while it was being refurbished.



Evidence for that statement?


----------



## Deareg (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> While that's fucking useless although it didn't help in Brighton that some travellers trashed the transit site while it was being refurbished.
> Some travellers really need to play well with others.


First of all. How do you know it was travellers that trashed it? And secondly, if it was travellers. Do you think that they are only people who have ever trashed something that was for there own use? And thirdly. What the fuck is it that fuels your obsessive hatred of them?


----------



## likesfish (Sep 1, 2011)

because I'm sick of fuckers wrecking my local park Like a lot of locals.
 It goes on every year. The police/council seem to be fucking useless.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

Deareg said:


> First of all. How do you know it was travellers that trashed it? And secondly, if it was travellers. Do you think that they are only people who have ever trashed something that was for there own use? And thirdly. What the fuck is it that fuels your obsessive hatred of them?


Lots of vigilante attacks I could tell you of from personal experience, I know people who have lost their lives and people who only lived to tell the tale through sheer luck (including myself). People have no concept of the level of hatred people experience.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 1, 2011)

likesfish said:


> because I'm sick of fuckers wrecking my local park Like a lot of locals.
> It goes on every year. The police/council seem to be fucking useless.


Why don't you just go to your local argos and buy yourself a set of swings and a slide and put them in your back garden? That means not only will they never get wrecked but you will never again have to wait your turn.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 1, 2011)

No its not a fucking pikey lair its a public park


----------



## ddraig (Sep 1, 2011)

any proof or pics yet by the way?
thanks
froth on!


----------



## Deareg (Sep 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Lots of vigilante attacks I could tell you of from personal experience, I know people who have lost their lives and people who only lived to tell the tale through sheer luck (including myself). People have no concept of the level of hatred people experience.


I hope that I never do find out first hand but I can well imagine it, I would have loved to have joined one of those convoys years ago and still take notions even now.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I hope that I never do find out first hand but I can well imagine it, I would have loved to have joined one of those convoys years ago and still take notions even now.


I would be dead now if I wasn't an epic minter and decided to stay out one weekend after a protest and gone raving, instead I lost everything I woned including all my artwork, someone on the same site died in a 'fire of unknown cause' about two months earlier - they too were near the same entrance end of site that I was. I know another girl who fell asleep in her wagon (an 810 Merc with an 'aftermarket' skylight installed nearly over the dirver's seat), that night for some reason she started messing with the small fire extinguisher (like you see in student houses, etc) and fell asleep on the bed with it....she was awoken to a smashing sound and someone had done her skylight with a petrol bomb. She only survived because through total chance the fire extinguisher was in bed with her instead of where it was normally stored right under the skylight. She ended up alive but driving about with a half-melted steering wheel and dash, which showed how severe the fire had been. If she had been a little more wasted or hadn't randomly and for the first time fell asleep with the extinguisher in her bed....

Iirc that wasn't far out of Brighton, though it was some time ago.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> I would be dead now if I wasn't an epic minter and decided to stay out one weekend after a protest and gone raving, instead I lost everything I woned including all my artwork, someone on the same site died in a 'fire of unknown cause' about two months earlier - they too were near the same entrance end of site that I was. I know another girl who fell asleep in her wagon (an 810 Merc with an 'aftermarket' skylight installed nearly over the dirver's seat), that night for some reason she started messing with the small fire extinguisher (like you see in student houses, etc) and fell asleep on the bed with it....she was awoken to a smashing sound and someone had done her skylight with a petrol bomb. She only survived because through total chance the fire extinguisher was in bed with her instead of where it was normally stored right under the skylight. She ended up alive but driving about with a half-melted steering wheel and dash, which showed how severe the fire had been. If she had been a little more wasted or hadn't randomly and for the first time fell asleep with the extinguisher in her bed....
> 
> Iirc that wasn't far out of Brighton, though it was some time ago.


Fuckin hell! that is scary just hearing about it,


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 1, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Fuckin hell! that is scary just hearing about it,


And people may hate new age travellers, but I can guarantee you that 'old' travellers will have plenty worse stories to tell, none of which will have reached the news.

Is it any wonder that travelling folk live in big groups and let the dogs roam free?


----------



## twentythreedom (Sep 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Lots of vigilante attacks I could tell you of from personal experience, I know people who have lost their lives and people who only lived to tell the tale through sheer luck (including myself). People have no concept of the level of hatred people experience.



When I left my truck (live-in Dodge 50) parked outside my house on a private road for a few weeks some cunts put the side windows in. Then some cunt grassed me for no tax - a notice got slapped on it saying it would get towed... but HAHA you cunts it was a private road. I pointed this out to the relevant authorities and they duly apologised. But yeah, people are cunts, and all this happened in fucking Finchley ffs! Good job I had a house to be living in tbh...


----------



## Bajie (Sep 2, 2011)

Anyone know more background information on the the clan/family groups who currently live at Dale Farm? Such as what part of Ireland they are from and when they first arrived in England.

Strange that it is only seems to be the women from Dale Farm who put in an appearence on TV, radio, courts or any other public type event, I have not seen one man yet from Dale Farm 'officially' representing them.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 2, 2011)

Bajie said:


> Anyone know more background information on the the clan/family groups who currently live at Dale Farm? Such as what part of Ireland they are from and when they first arrived in England.
> 
> Strange that it is only seems to be the women from Dale Farm who put in an appearence on TV, radio, courts or any other public type event, I have not seen one man yet from Dale Farm 'officially' representing them.


It doesn't seem strange if you are aware of the gender divides which are generally seen in 'traditional' traveller society. Trust it is still the women that hold the purse strings/properly run tings so please don't be offended.

If you look at the Daily Fail article several Irish surnames are mentioned.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2011)

the men don't generally talk to press etc afaiu


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 2, 2011)

likesfish said:


> No its not a *fucking pikey lair* its a public park



Quoted as a reminder of exactly where you are coming from on this. Your choice of language says it all.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 2, 2011)

ddraig said:


> the men don't generally talk to press etc afaiu


No, the men work/bring home bacon; the women deal with the serious shit and look after the money.


----------



## Bajie (Sep 2, 2011)

I thought it was probably a PR move rather than a gender divide thing, as the women come across a lot better on camera than a lot of the men probably would. Defenceless women and children angle, as opposed to the bloke who looks like the one who knocks on your door asking if you want your drive tarmaced.

Surnames does not give their background though, as I have not seen any information yet on where they come from, when they got to England and the actual family dynamics.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 2, 2011)

Bajie said:


> I thought it was probably a PR move rather than a gender divide thing, as the women come across a lot better on camera than a lot of the men probably would. Defenceless women and children angle, as opposed to the bloke who looks like the one who knocks on your door asking if you want your drive tarmaced.
> 
> Surnames does not give their background though, as I have not seen any information yet on where they come from, when they got to England and the actual family dynamics.



Point one: you have no idea and why the fuck does it matter?

Point two: you have no idea and why the fuck does it matter?


----------



## Bajie (Sep 2, 2011)

Just an observation that is all, if I was advising them on PR I would advise them to do exactly what they are doing now, put the women to the front and the men firmly in the background.

Context is important, as it gives better perspective to the current events.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 2, 2011)

Bajie said:


> Just an observation that is all, if I was advising them on PR I would advise them to do exactly what they are doing now, put the women to the front and the men firmly in the background.
> 
> Background is important, as it gives better perspective to the current events.


Trust me it won't all be down to PR. You may think it is, and perhaps some if the tradition has grown up around long-held human preferences for seeing a woman's face, but in a traditional traveller society the men bring in money and give it to the woman who then gives them back 'pocket money' for drink and the like, thus ensuring the kids and home are well cared for as a priority. You can diss this or claim it is sexist all you like but this is how it is and it works for them.


----------



## Bajie (Sep 2, 2011)

That may be so, but personally I am too cynical to believe that is fully explains the way the people who live at Dales Farm chose to represent themselves in the  media as I think they weighed up who would come across best and worked out it was not the men, as the men would more likely to fit the sterotypes of peoples prejudices of travellers so would be kept out of any media as much as possible.


----------



## Tankus (Sep 2, 2011)

Worried that they might get recognised from CCTv footage ?


----------



## ddraig (Sep 2, 2011)

Bajie said:


> That may be so, but personally I am too cynical to believe that is fully explains the way the people who live at Dales Farm chose to represent themselves in the media as I think they weighed up who would come across best and worked out it was not the men, as the men would more likely to fit the sterotypes of peoples prejudices of travellers so would be kept out of any media as much as possible.


http://www.media-diversity.org/en/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=908


----------



## treelover (Sep 2, 2011)

'Worried that they might get recognised from CCTv footage ?  '

apt tagline...


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 3, 2011)

Tankus said:


> Worried that they might get recognised from CCTv footage ?



Loaded question is actually a loaded statement.


----------



## editor (Sep 3, 2011)

I've just been sent this:



> Message:
> Hi- We are living & reporting frm Dale Frm. We are running programmes
> made here on itistv home channel- check My vlog for past programmes -
> Numbers will make a difference. Thanx Fil
> ...


----------



## ddraig (Sep 3, 2011)

cheers
this one from there i think is good too
http://www.youtube.com/user/itistv?feature=mhee#p/a/F87B9CE2F706E131/0/DD_-5uX56tc


----------



## kenny g (Sep 3, 2011)

Bajie said:


> Anyone know more background information on the the clan/family groups who currently live at Dale Farm? Such as what part of Ireland they are from and when they first arrived in England.
> 
> Strange that it is only seems to be the women from Dale Farm who put in an appearence on TV, radio, courts or any other public type event, I have not seen one man yet from Dale Farm 'officially' representing them.



This refers to the Sheridans as being multiple green belt occupiers with significant assets:- http://www.pressgazette.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=38632&sectioncode=1

http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/1117797.crays_hills_numerous_rathkeale_connections/
After reading it though you do start to wonder what the point is that the author wants to make..
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/1823100.0/

http://www.sundayworld.com/columnists/index.php?aid=4107

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/travellers-leave-trail-of-resentment-481248.html

http://www.sundayworld.com/columnists/index.php?aid=3893

one of the characters mentioned in the article above has been doen for Rhino horn smuggling!!

http://www.sundayworld.com/columnists/index.php?aid=6517

http://www.rhinoconservation.org/2011/04/20/guilty-plea-expected-in-us-rhino-horn-smuggling-case/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1463386/They-see-this-town-as-their-spiritual-home.html

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Rathkeale&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

These houses do appear to tally with the telegraph story
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Roches Road, Rathkeale,&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=wl

As travellers have bought fuck loads of green belt in shitty worn out agricultural areas around essex/east london etc - most of it occupied by a few horses at most, any Tory changes to planning laws will make people plenty more  moolah.


----------



## treelover (Sep 4, 2011)

'"They are travelling in such a large group that the Gardai can not physically impound so many vehicles. I don't regard these people as Travellers. They are traders and they give ordinary Travellers a bad name. They have been in Wexford at least 10 times in the past five years, but it is the sheer numbers that are intimidating.

seems very complex this 'traveller' community, lots of sub groups, cleavages, etc..


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 4, 2011)

treelover said:


> '"They are travelling in such a large group that the Gardai can not physically impound so many vehicles. I don't regard these people as Travellers. They are traders and they give ordinary Travellers a bad name. They have been in Wexford at least 10 times in the past five years, but it is the sheer numbers that are intimidating.
> 
> seems very complex this 'traveller' community, lots of sub groups, *cleavages*, etc..


----------



## 8115 (Sep 4, 2011)

Couldn't see a link to this already, sorry if I'm repeating stuff:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/02/dale-farm-travellers-eviction-solution?INTCMP=ILCNETTXT3487

UN group condemn the eviction.  Good.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 4, 2011)

oh good now somebody will probably massacre them
  they own the land and the UN supports them watch out for an incoming Israeli airstrike


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 4, 2011)

Haven't you got a Muslim Taxi driver to abuse or something?


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 4, 2011)

stephj said:


> Haven't you got a Muslim Taxi driver to abuse or something?



In some areas there are only Muslim taxi drivers.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 4, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> In some areas there are only Muslim taxi drivers.



Do you know what I'm referring to then? Are you his spokeperson? If not, off you fuck.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 4, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> In some areas there are only Muslim taxi drivers.



Oh ffs.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 4, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Oh ffs.



For some reason I seem to have hit a nerve here.
http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/key-projects/how-fair-is-britain/online-summary/employment/
_ However, the British labour market continues to be characterised by a high level of occupational segregation. Around 25% of Pakistani men are primarily taxi drivers_


----------



## Ax^ (Sep 4, 2011)

Would not worry about what part of ireland they are from any traveller worth their salt knows to forgo the link as the eu reconises them as a seperate culture


----------



## MikeMcc (Sep 5, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> For some reason I seem to have hit a nerve here.
> http://www.equalityhumanrights.com/key-projects/how-fair-is-britain/online-summary/employment/
> _However, the British labour market continues to be characterised by a high level of occupational segregation. Around 25% of Pakistani men are primarily taxi drivers_


Though choice or lack of choice?


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 5, 2011)

Through the wonders of GPS, mainly. Overcomes both the communication barrier and any lack of street knowledge.


----------



## Garek (Sep 5, 2011)

*like* http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/04/dale-farm-travellers-jewish-backing


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 5, 2011)

LOL. I wonder how great the support would be from the 'Jewish community' had the not-so-travelling travellers been parked in Springfield Park, E5 for the past decade.


----------



## Garek (Sep 5, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> LOL. I wonder how great the support would be from the 'Jewish community' had the not-so-travelling travellers been parked in Springfield Park, E5 for the past decade.



Well 'Jewish community' is indeed wrong in this instance as more accurately it should read West London Liberals.


----------



## dylanredefined (Sep 5, 2011)

London_Calling said:


> LOL. I wonder how great the support would be from the 'Jewish community' had the not-so-travelling travellers been parked in Springfield Park, E5 for the past decade.


   Simply does it effect property value no=We welcome the diversity in our vibrant multi cultural community
                                                        Yes= Burn them


----------



## barney_pig (Sep 5, 2011)

dylanredefined said:


> Simply does it effect property value no=We welcome the diversity in our vibrant multi cultural community
> Yes= Burn them


manages to be anti traveller and anti semitic in one succinct post, well done. (you should try for a treble, any asian taxi drivers around?)


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 5, 2011)

Heh. The Offenderati are out early today.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 5, 2011)

MikeMcc said:


> Though choice or lack of choice?



I have no idea  but in the same reference it states something like 50% of working age Pakistani males and 75% working age  Pakistani females are unemployed, so I am a bit puzzled how immigration has been "good for the country."


----------



## dylanredefined (Sep 5, 2011)

It keeps wages down though.And easier to import skills than train natives to do the jobs.We all ways here about shortage of skilled workers.Not so much about training people.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 5, 2011)

Their parents were brought over to work in the mills shortage of cheap weavers in this country.
 when the mills shut down tough shit. live in the wrong part of the country and poor education for various reasons and you get crapped over although the mills ran for a few more years.

nice middle class peeps are into diversity and multiculturalism till it effects them and then the lawyers come out


----------



## Wilson (Sep 5, 2011)

so the eviction date has apparently been set for monday 19th sept, the council plan to block road access from some days in advance

theres a march/demo on sat 10th 1pm from Wickford train station to the site


----------



## kenny g (Sep 5, 2011)

Israeli settler caravans.

I wonder how many supporters of Dale Farm also support Israeli settlers?


----------



## treelover (Sep 6, 2011)

lol, ''The Offenderati' are out early today''. like that phrase, think i will use it...


----------



## free spirit (Sep 6, 2011)

kenny g said:


> Israeli settler caravans.
> 
> I wonder how many supporters of Dale Farm also support Israeli settlers?


I wasn't aware that dale farm lot have a US backed and equipped army prepared to go to war with, destroy and annex surrounding areas if they dare to object to having their land annexed by force.

That should certainly liven up the eviction proceedings.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 6, 2011)

treelover said:


> lol, ''The Offenderati' are out early today''. like that phrase, think i will use it...



I'm sure he'll be pleased as he has been trying to get it to catch on for nearly two years now


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 6, 2011)

kenny g said:


>


You'd think they might want to do a decent job of tarmacing.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 6, 2011)

there's a pic of the idf burning some caravans in the metro today.
 so sometimes they support you if your a settler sometimes they get the big stick out (tbf its the idf softly softly is putting a silencer or a big gun)


----------



## London_Calling (Sep 6, 2011)

... and sometimes the Israeli political class want an image to sell across the world.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 6, 2011)

kenny g said:


> Israeli settler caravans.
> 
> I wonder how many supporters of Dale Farm also support Israeli settlers?


Yeah, I support the Israeli settlers, and Western invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and anywhere else that takes there fancy, because obviously they are all based on exactly the same principle.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Yeah, I support the Israeli settlers, and Western invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and anywhere else that takes there fancy, because obviously they are all based on exactly the same principle.


Do I detect a hint of sarcasm?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 8, 2011)

It's International Literacy Day- but 100 children will be pulled out of school and made homeless by the eviction of Dale Farm this month


----------



## cool herc (Sep 8, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> It's International Literacy Day- but 100 children will be pulled out of school and made homeless by the eviction of Dale Farm this month



Can't you find room in your house? In your back garden? Human rights!!


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 8, 2011)

cool herc said:


> Can't you find room in your house? In your back garden? Human rights!!




as it goes I have a funny feeling you maybe evicted soon and looking for a new forum....
 troll


----------



## cool herc (Sep 8, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> as it goes I have a funny feeling you maybe evicted soon and looking for a new forum....
> troll



Whys that then? I don't agree with travellers doing what they like and I don't agree with the anarchists that have gone to fight the police. Do people get banned for saying those things here then?


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 8, 2011)

Go on, post something approaching a sensible argument. Other than HUR HUR HUMAN RIGHTS LOL!!!


Have you even read the thread?


----------



## likesfish (Sep 8, 2011)

The travellers chose poorly decided to take the piss and eventually the state is going to slap you down hard.
 thats why they got kicked out of ireland.


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 8, 2011)

Everything you just posted is bollocks


----------



## Deareg (Sep 8, 2011)

likesfish said:


> The travellers chose poorly decided to take the piss and eventually the state is going to slap you down hard.
> thats why they got kicked out of ireland.


When did they get kicked out of Ireland?


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 8, 2011)

cool herc said:


> Whys that then? I don't agree with travellers doing what they like and I don't agree with the anarchists that have gone to fight the police. Do people get banned for saying those things here then?


'Doing what they like' as in trying to send their kids to the same school for a period of time? Trying to live near their families? Living in large groups for mutual protection? Living anywhere at all, in fact that's not a house?

It may well be 'within the green belt', but it's their own land and not a greenfield site.

 People that are different to me 

*shakes fist*


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 8, 2011)

likesfish said:


> The travellers chose poorly decided to take the piss and eventually the state is going to slap you down hard.
> thats why they got kicked out of ireland.



you got kicked out of ireland cos the ira made you run like hell away from the green and lovely lakes etc etc


----------



## likesfish (Sep 8, 2011)

yeah ok whatever
 I thought a law had been passed in ireland to make trespass illegal the whole point was to make tinkers travel a lot further
  UK has planning laws and majority are settled decide not to do what everyone else does might be better not to try to get into conflict with the state as you will lose


----------



## cool herc (Sep 8, 2011)

Deareg said:


> When did they get kicked out of Ireland?



When the Guardai physically put them onto a ferryboat at Rosslare or Dublin and told them to feck off. It happens.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 8, 2011)

cool herc said:


> When the Guardai physically put them onto a ferryboat at Rosslare or Dublin and told them to feck off. It happens.


You just made that up.


----------



## cool herc (Sep 8, 2011)

Deareg said:


> You just made that up.



No, I did not.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 8, 2011)

cool herc said:


> No, I did not.


proof?


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 8, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> 'Doing what they like' as in trying to send their kids to the same school for a period of time? Trying to live near their families? Living in large groups for mutual protection? Living anywhere at all, in fact that's not a house?
> 
> It may well be 'within the green belt', but it's their own land and not a greenfield site.
> 
> ...


would that be the school with the worst attendance record in the UK?


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 8, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> would that be the school with the worst attendance record in the UK?


No need to be a twat, have you got anything to back this up or are you just an epic dickhead?


----------



## likesfish (Sep 8, 2011)

http://www.educationadviser.co.uk/ofsted-report/crays-hill-primary-school

not brilliant attendance but don't think its the worst


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 8, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> No need to be a twat, have you got anything to back this up or are you just an epic dickhead?



'tis true - or at least BBC Essex has been saying this all week.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 8, 2011)

http://www.basildonrecorder.co.uk/n...Farm_travellers__site_is_almost_empty/?ref=mr

not exactly impartial but  surprise surprise the Sheridan clan being  dodgy


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 8, 2011)

likesfish said:


> yeah ok whatever
> I thought a law had been passed in ireland to make trespass illegal the whole point was to make tinkers travel a lot further
> UK has planning laws and majority are settled decide not to do what everyone else does might be better not to try to get into conflict with the state as you will lose


 
the ra gave you a dishonourable discharge in the face and you flew back yo aldershot as fast as you could


----------



## likesfish (Sep 8, 2011)

why would I go anywhere near a shithole like the shot?
 the ra did cruely and callously shoot my rucksac.
 mind you kind of hard to miss it consider it contained 4 sleeping bags 4 bivi bags 8 sets of goretex 12 boots two portable tvs 4 hi fi sets
a bicycle 3 stoves etc.
 kit insurance wonderful stuff


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 8, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> 'tis true - or at least BBC Essex has been saying this all week.


You stating that state media claims this isn't exactly proof now is it?

 


likesfish said:


> why would I go anywhere near a shithole like the shot?
> the ra did cruely and callously shoot my rucksac.
> mind you kind of hard to miss it consider it contained 4 sleeping bags 4 bivi bags 8 sets of goretex 12 boots two portable tvs 4 hi fi sets
> a bicycle 3 stoves etc.
> kit insurance wonderful stuff


Surely you could have thought of some better stuff to lie about having than that.


----------



## cool herc (Sep 8, 2011)




----------



## cool herc (Sep 8, 2011)

Cops raid a traveller site and find hundreds of thousands in cash.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 8, 2011)

cool herc said:


> When the Guardai physically put them onto a ferryboat at Rosslare or Dublin and told them to feck off. It happens.


now really fuck off trolling dimwit.... even scumfront wouldnt tolerate such idiocacy.....

btw: its generally Garda.... or to give them their full title *Garda Síochána na hÉireann*

**


----------



## michaelh (Sep 8, 2011)

cool herc said:


> Cops raid a traveller site and find hundreds of thousands in cash.



Is this because the travellers do not pay tax - is this a fact as they seem to pay for everything in cash. Is this something to do with why no men ever appear or is it more sinister? Also do they pay for water, gas, electric or council tax. Also it is a fact that local junior school destroyed due travellers


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 8, 2011)

lot of new members on this thread....
trolling?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 8, 2011)

michaelh said:


> Is this because the travellers do not pay tax - is this a fact as they seem to pay for everything in cash. Is this something to do with why no men ever appear or is it more sinister? Also do they pay for water, gas, electric or council tax. Also it is a fact that local junior school destroyed due travellers


source????


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 8, 2011)

Is cool herc a sockpuppet or mate of likesfish?

Oh, and who's this michaelh dork just arrived.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 8, 2011)

The junior school is actually under thread _due to the eviction._ There's some right thick fucks around at the minute.


----------



## Wilson (Sep 8, 2011)

michaelh said:


> Is this because the travellers do not pay tax - is this a fact as they seem to pay for everything in cash. Is this something to do with why no men ever appear or is it more sinister? Also do they pay for water, gas, electric or council tax. Also it is a fact that local junior school destroyed due travellers



You are a lying shit stain, I personally have visited that school and can confirm that the school has not been destroyed in any way shape or form, it is in fact functioning perfectly.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 8, 2011)

cool herc said:


> Cops raid a traveller site and find hundreds of thousands in cash.


A traveller site, singular, when all travellers sites or at least some kind of percentage of sites are turning up these types of finds then you would have a point, but until then you are only showing yourself up as a thick bigoted wanker.

And I asked you earlier for proof that the Gardi forced travellers onto ferries at those two ports you mentioned. Any chance of a response?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 8, 2011)

Half of dale Farm's legally occupied isn't it? Is that half going to be evicted as well?


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## 8115 (Sep 8, 2011)

Frances Lengel said:


> Half of dale Farm's legally occupied isn't it? Is that half going to be evicted as well?



No, I don't think so.  Only the illegal pitches.


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## Frances Lengel (Sep 8, 2011)

8115 said:


> No, I don't think so. Only the illegal pitches.


 
Right, cheers.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 8, 2011)

According to Basildon Borough council:

Dale Farm is a six acre plot of land, including the site of a former scrap yard, in the village of Crays Hill.

Since 2001 travellers have breached planning law by setting up homes in caravans, developing hard standings and road access across the site. There are now 51 illegal pitches involving approximately 240 people on the site.
The unauthorised site known as Dale Farm has been there since autumn 2001. It is important to stress this is not an eviction - the travellers own the land, and it will remain in their ownership.
Next to the Dale Farm site there is an authorised site known as Oak Lane which is quite legal and gained planning permission between 1992 and 1996. It provides 34 pitches.


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## likesfish (Sep 8, 2011)

Cool herc nothing to do with me


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## AKA pseudonym (Sep 9, 2011)

Anyone going to Dale Farm email dalefarmlegalmonitors@gmail.com and get your name down on their list of expected visitors. Take identification with you or gavvas//police may not let you in.


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## AKA pseudonym (Sep 9, 2011)

URGENT- HUMAN RIGHTS MONITORS NEEDED - DALE FARM - TRAINING GIVEN - dalefarmlegalmonitors@gmail.com
contact Dale Farm before you come - if your names not down you might not get in!

http://www.facebook.com/event.php?eid=120449081388705

Fire Service told Dale Farm Solidarity on-site people that the road block is only to ensure access for emergency vehicles (to keep the road clear from media vans/parked vehicles etc) and should not in any way stop people arriving on the site to support families at Dale Farm


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## Mr.Bishie (Sep 12, 2011)

http://dalefarm.wordpress.com/2011/...sh/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter


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## fractionMan (Sep 12, 2011)

michaelh said:


> Is this because the travellers do not pay tax - is this a fact as they seem to pay for everything in cash. Is this something to do with why no men ever appear or is it more sinister? Also do they pay for water, gas, electric or council tax. Also it is a fact that local junior school destroyed due travellers



read the thread.

summary: of course they pay fucking tax and utilities, you twat.


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## stuff_it (Sep 12, 2011)

Fuck me, some of the comments on here - it breaks my heart that some people are so fucking ignorant. 

http://dalefarm.wordpress.com/2011/09/11/important-update-about-the-eviction-of-dale-farm/


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## roctrevezel (Sep 12, 2011)

Has there been any comment on this forum about the occupants of Dale Farm allegedly all having property back in Ireland and thus will not be made homeless if evicted. (I have no idea if the allegations are true but it has been reported in the Irish press.)


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## cool herc (Sep 12, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Has there been any comment on this forum about the occupants of Dale Farm allegedly all having property back in Ireland and thus will not be made homeless if evicted. (I have no idea if the allegations are true but it has been reported in the Irish press.)



Probably not.


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## claphamboy (Sep 12, 2011)

Fuckwit alert ^^^^


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## cool herc (Sep 12, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Fuckwit alert ^^^^



Has there been any comment then????


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## fractionMan (Sep 12, 2011)

yes.


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## cool herc (Sep 12, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> yes.



where?>?


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## fractionMan (Sep 12, 2011)

It's between pages 1 and 13


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## cool herc (Sep 13, 2011)

I did some digging around the internet for you and it looks like the Dale Farm site has been investigated for slavery and putting mentally ill or alcohol dependent people through hell in the same way as the Leighton Buzzard story back in 2008.

i'M surprised this hasnt been in the news already. Probably will be now its all on this website.
Dale Farm isnt mentioned by name but look at google maps it shows the place under investigation is next to Hovefields Drive and Hovefields Avenue in Wickford.

_*And the only traveller camp around there is your Dale Farm.*_ These are the same people some of you mugs are trying to defend.

At last: Police probe traveller slavery
http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/2335579.at_last_police_probe_traveller_slavery/

7:21am Thursday 12th June 2008


 By Jon Austin »




> POLICE and council officers have finally confirmed they are investigating the scandal of slave labour on travellers sites - eight weeks after it was exposed by the Echo.
> In April, we revealed how some travellers at Basildon sites were recruiting homeless and vulnerable people as live-in labourers.
> The men, known as "dossers" or "slaves", are poorly paid and sometimes given just food and sub-standard lodgings.
> We even found evidence some had been assaulted or held against their will. Yet following publication police were reluctant to say if they were investigating.
> ...



And theres more stories from all over the place

Southampton

by Euan Stretch, Daily Mirror  25/06/2011 


http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-st...ur-at-illegal-traveller-camp-115875-23224946/

Gloucester
28th March 2011

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-police-slavery-charges-Gloucestershire.html

Daily Mail love this stuff but they are real stories with real court cases like this one in november 2010 where a traveller family sold their own daughter into slavery to another traveller family who nearly killed her

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-French-couple-used-sex-slave-travellers.html

The Guardian even did a piece when 8 men were taken as slaves and had their benefits stolen every week just like in the Leighton Buzzard case again in France back in 2005

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/dec/16/france.jonhenley



> Eight members of a family of travellers were in custody yesterday following the discovery of six "modern-day slaves" kept in appalling conditions in an unheated caravan and a lorry on an encampment in northern France.
> Local media in the town of Mauberge reported that the victims, French, male, and aged between 34 and 58, were found on Wednesday morning barefoot, filthy, bruised, cut and suffering from malnutrition and hypothermia. It was not immediately clear who they were, or where they may have come from.
> The men were treated in a nearby hospital and offered accommodation in hostels, the Voix du Nord newspaper said, adding that they were so weak that only one had been able to stand unaided when police raided the camp following a tip-off.


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## fractionMan (Sep 13, 2011)

It'll be interesting how it plays out tbh. Timing no co-incidence imo.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/12/rescued-man-criticises-slavery-raid

It looks very much like cash in hand work in exchange for £x pounds a day, food and accommodation.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 13, 2011)

_Der Ewige Zigeuner_? I think I saw that film. Didn't enjoy the ending.


----------



## cool herc (Sep 13, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> It'll be interesting how it plays out tbh. Timing no co-incidence imo.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/12/rescued-man-criticises-slavery-raid
> 
> It looks very much like cash in hand work in exchange for £x pounds a day, food and accommodation.



He was one of the lucky ones if you read the links in the posts above most of these slaves were found staved to death and beaten living in squalor not fit for a dog.


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## fractionMan (Sep 13, 2011)

There's an awful lot about 'investigations', 'allegations' and 'suspicions' and very little follow up tbh. Certainly nothing about convictions etc.

There's a thread here about leighton:
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/suspected-slavery-in-leighton-buzzard.280818/

Sounds increasingly like a stitch up ahead of the evictions.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 13, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> Sounds increasingly like a stitch up ahead of the evictions.



Yep.


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## Wilson (Sep 13, 2011)

cool herc said:


> i'M surprised this hasnt been in the news already. Probably will be now its all on this website.
> Dale Farm isnt mentioned by name but look at google maps it shows the place under investigation is next to Hovefields Drive and Hovefields Avenue in Wickford.
> 
> _*And the only traveller camp around there is your Dale Farm.*_ These are the same people some of you mugs are trying to defend.



You are a liar, there are a lot of travellers sites around the area, hovefields drive and hovefields avenue are not near to dale farm at all, they are to all intents and purposes on opposite sides of wickford with dale farm away to the west and hovefields on the east.

Why do you lie? is it because you are racist, xenophobic and hateful? I think so.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 14, 2011)

Interesting article from Irish newspaper. (I was trying to find out if there was any truth in a story in the Hate Mail.)
http://www.independent.ie/national-...ctionrow-site-builds-estate-here-2875717.html


----------



## cool herc (Sep 14, 2011)

Wilson said:


> You are a liar, there are a lot of travellers sites around the area, hovefields drive and hovefields avenue are not near to dale farm at all, they are to all intents and purposes on opposite sides of wickford with dale farm away to the west and hovefields on the east.
> 
> Why do you lie? is it because you are racist, xenophobic and hateful? I think so.



You need to learn how to use google maps. Hovefields Drive is the nearest resedential street to the Dale Farm camp.

And you might be right saying there are a lot of traveller sites around the area so that means when twice as many build illegal properties then there really is a problem and maybe its time the council sent in the bailiffs if there are other sites they could live on they dont need to be at Dale Farm. Cant have it both ways.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 14, 2011)

UN will be at Dale farm at lunchtime for a press conference......

Please send messages of support to those manning Camp Constant on their FB group page. They are all working very hard to support residents of Dale Farm. This is there page and it would be nice if you all sent messages : )
https://www.facebook.com/groups/campconstant/


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## stuff_it (Sep 14, 2011)

cool herc said:


> He was one of the lucky ones if you read the links in the posts above most of these slaves were found staved to death and beaten living in squalor not fit for a dog.


TBF I'd like to then know why the BBC news footage showed us unmade beds and a bit of stale bread on the side in a trailer kitchen next to an electric kettle then, rather than these 'horseboxes full of poo'.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 14, 2011)

UN aren't happy...they are visiting Dale Farm this afternoon.



> A United Nations advisory group has accused the UK of double standards in its treatment of travellers at Dale Farm in Essex, where authorities plan to evict 86 families from the site.
> Professor Yves Cabannes, chair of the UN Advisory Group on Forced Evictions, explains his concerns at the evictions.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_9590000/9590626.stm


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## likesfish (Sep 14, 2011)

oh great the UN are going to turn up
next stop essex plod start filling a mass grave or call in an air strike
  breaching planning rules and exhausting the legal process is not ethnic cleansing although irritating Essex council and police is much easier duty than trying to stop the horrors happening around Somalia.


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## cool herc (Sep 14, 2011)

likesfish said:


> oh great the UN are going to turn up
> next stop essex plod start filling a mass grave or call in an air strike
> breaching planning rules and exhausting the legal process is not ethnic cleansing although irritating Essex council and police is much easier duty than trying to stop the horrors happening around Somalia.



True. Ive even heard some idiots call this eviction "ethnic cleansing". WRONG
Try Srebrenica or just about any other Bosnian massacre.When the Essex police start using bulldozers to heap the bodies into 20 foot high piles then it can be called ethnic cleansing.

Telling these summer holiday home "travellers" where the legal residents of Dale Farm who have mostly buggered off already, maybe back to their multi million pound housing projects in Rathkeale LOL that they cant just move on to green belt and concrete over it take electricity from the street lights and move caravans in IS NOT ethnic cleansing.

We need an Ireland style trespass law NOW.


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## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 14, 2011)

cool herc said:


> True. Ive even heard some idiots call this eviction "ethnic cleansing". WRONG
> Try Srebrenica or just about any other Bosnian massacre.When the Essex police start using bulldozers to heap the bodies into 20 foot high piles then it can be called ethnic cleansing.
> 
> Telling these summer holiday home "travellers" where the legal residents of Dale Farm who have mostly buggered off already, maybe back to their multi million pound housing projects in Rathkeale LOL that they cant just move on to green belt and concrete over it take electricity from the street lights and move caravans in IS NOT ethnic cleansing.
> ...



You really are obsessed aren't you? Ever heard of 'live and let live'? What's it to you anyway?


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 14, 2011)

> True. Ive even heard some idiots call this eviction "ethnic cleansing". WRONG



ethnic cleansing doesn't have to involve deaths (although it usually does).


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 14, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> You really are obsessed aren't you? Ever heard of 'live and let live'? What's it to you anyway?


 
Not only is he obsessed, he's got real problems with reasoning and prejudice.  All travellers are thieving scum that live in junk yards, apparently.  Not to mention they all drive 50k mercs, keep slaves, don't pay tax and own huge housing developments in Ireland.

All of them are on a summer holiday too now, not to mention stealing electricity from street lights.


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## Deareg (Sep 14, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> TBF I'd like to then know why the BBC news footage showed us unmade beds and a bit of stale bread on the side in a trailer kitchen next to an electric kettle then, rather than these 'horseboxes full of poo'.


Or any of the bodies of those who were starved to death.


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## stuff_it (Sep 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> ethnic cleansing doesn't have to involve deaths (although it usually does).


How do you think the places where people ended up in mass graves started out? In most cases they weren't marrying and employing people from <insert group here> and the next shoving their bodies in ditches - there will have been a long buildup of increasing levels of hatred, often supported or ignored by the government.


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## frogwoman (Sep 14, 2011)

yep. that's the point i'm making


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## cool herc (Sep 14, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> Not only is he obsessed, he's got real problems with reasoning and prejudice. All travellers are thieving scum that live in junk yards, apparently. Not to mention they all drive 50k mercs, keep slaves, don't pay tax and own huge housing developments in Ireland.



I didnt say ALL of them are but the ones at Dale Farm definitley are living in a junk yard just look at google earth pictures.The £50k Mercedes was the picture used in all the press in front of a house in the Leighton Buzzard camp where they did keep slaves. Of course they dont pay tax.
And dont forget the massive housing project they are building in Rathkeale hmm funny how they have the money for a multimillion housing development.



> All of them are on a summer holiday too now, not to mention stealing electricity from street lights.



I said the LEGALLY built property owners at Dale Farm. They ARE on holiday. You are useless at research just have a look

http://www.basildonrecorder.co.uk/n...f_Dale_Farm_travellers__site_is_almost_empty/



> A community of Irish travellers known as the Sheridan Clan own both, but most of the 40 legal plots are only occupied for one month each year.
> Aerial pictures taken of the site this week show *evidence of just six being occupied, leaving 34 vacant*.
> The Echo photographed many of these with boarded windows, padlocked gates and overgrown yards.



If they are there legally then no problem but its the illegal ones that need removing. Why dont the illegal folk just move into the legal property?
Or should these travellers be allowed to carry on ignoring the law? You realise these travellers buy the land cheap because they are NOT allowed to build on it?

Carry on ignoring them and they will just get bigger and bolder.
It has to stop and this is fight they can never win no matter how many bandwagon jumping anarchists have set up tents there.

But I get called a "cunt" and a "kiddyfiddler" for saying this here. Luckily most people agree they have to go.


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## frogwoman (Sep 14, 2011)

if they can drive 50k mercedes how come they havent got enough money to refurbish the junk yard then?

you really are fucking obsessed


----------



## cool herc (Sep 14, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> if they can drive 50k mercedes how come they havent got enough money to refurbish the junk yard then?
> 
> you really are fucking obsessed



They have got the money but they don't give a damn.


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## frogwoman (Sep 14, 2011)

So how come they've got the money to make the housing developments in ireland nice and get mercedes that cost 50k? they obviously care about that (according to you that is)


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## likesfish (Sep 14, 2011)

allegedly the Sheridan family has been collecting hb on all the illegal pitches


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## Athos (Sep 14, 2011)

cool herc said:


> But I get called a "cunt" and a "kiddyfiddler" for saying this here.



That's completely unfair. There's no way whoever posted that can know whether or not you're a kiddy-fiddler.


----------



## Wilson (Sep 14, 2011)

cool herc said:


> You need to learn how to use google maps. Hovefields Drive is the nearest resedential street to the Dale Farm camp.



You are wrong, I am right, please stop lying, produce an image of the map to support your claims, I do not need to use google maps or any other such device as I have worked in the area for over 5 years and know it like the back of my hand, hovefields drive is in the postal code area of SS12, dale farm is in the postal code area of CM11, the nearest residential street to dale farm is oak lane.


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## fractionMan (Sep 14, 2011)

Of course they pay tax - 900 quid a pitch. And your shite about stealing electricity from lamp posts is just that, shite.  They had to pay to get the site hooked up to the grid. Same for the water. 

Now Fuck off and take your bulshit with you.


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## fractionMan (Sep 14, 2011)

You realise leichester council have done a cost benefit analysis and discovered they actually make a profit from providing legal sites?  It's cheaper to provide legal sites than to constantly evict, not that the council dale farm have to deal with give a Fuck.  They just hate travellers and want them elsewhere.   I'll also point out that despite what the media would have you think not all the locals share your frothing prejudice. Plenty are perfectly happy with the site being there and bringing in business.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 14, 2011)

Problem is dale farm travellers decided they could take the piss and when called on it decided to fight so


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## kenny g (Sep 14, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> You realise leichester council have done a cost benefit analysis and discovered they actually make a profit from providing legal sites? It's cheaper to provide legal sites than to constantly evict, not that the council dale farm have to deal with give a Fuck. They just hate travellers and want them elsewhere. I'll also point out that despite what the media would have you think not all the locals share your frothing prejudice. Plenty are perfectly happy with the site being there and bringing in business.


We are not talking about leicester- this is a well known organised crime family who have been taking the piss on at least three continents. Why the fuck should they be allowed to build fucking chalets in the green belt so that they have a south east england HQ for their criminal activities.

You don't see one of the male sheridens on the TV for quite a good reason- they don't want to cramp their style when ripping people off left right and centre.


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## fractionMan (Sep 14, 2011)

What the fuck are you on about?


----------



## kenny g (Sep 14, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> What the fuck are you on about?


http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...en-eviction-date.277157/page-11#post-10432141


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## gunneradt (Sep 14, 2011)

time for pikey bye bye


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## butchersapron (Sep 14, 2011)

You know when you see a certain name on the end of a thread?


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 15, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You know when you see a certain name on the end of a thread?



haven't you got a 'heroic' car to get in to come save them?


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## cool herc (Sep 15, 2011)

They are paying council tax now for the first time IN SIX YEARS because they can then use the appeals system. You really dont know anything about this case.

http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/n...Farm_travellers_in_eviction_stalling_tactics/



> Out of 90 pitches across both the legal and illegal parts of the Crays Hill site, only about 50 have ever been put on the council tax register.
> A source close to the travellers’ campaign said it was hoped registering the remaining properties could lead to appeals with the Valuation Office Agency, which sets council tax bands


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## fractionMan (Sep 15, 2011)

So you've changed from ranting "they don't pay any tax" to "they pay tax" and it's me who's wrong? Get a grip you fuckwit.

Nice bit off gossip on the end of that article there though, which I see you've taken as gospel to re-enforce your prejudice. The source said: _They're paying tax for the wrong reasons, the rotters.  _Well, apart from all those that already have permission and have been paying tax for years.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 15, 2011)

kenny g said:


> Why the fuck should they be allowed to build fucking chalets in the green belt so that they have a south east england HQ for their criminal activities.



I'm confused. Is it green belt or a junkyard they are building on?


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 15, 2011)

cool herc said:


> They are paying council tax now for the first time IN SIX YEARS because they can then use the appeals system. You really dont know anything about this case.
> 
> http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/n...Farm_travellers_in_eviction_stalling_tactics/



Have you ever thought that the best way to get people to pay tax is to let them settle? I mean, how is it even POSSIBLE to register to pay council tax if your property is not officially recognised? Catch 22, no?


----------



## Deareg (Sep 15, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Have you ever thought that the best way to get people to pay tax is to let them settle? I mean, how is it even POSSIBLE to register to pay council tax if your property is not officially recognised? Catch 22, no?


The only time herc is not talking bullshit is when he is telling lies.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 15, 2011)

lulz... solidarity action on the roof @Ken Clarkes gaff...
http://m.guardian.co.uk/news/blog/2...dale-farm-protests-live?cat=news&type=article


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## Wilson (Sep 15, 2011)

cool herc said:


> They are paying council tax now for the first time IN SIX YEARS because they can then use the appeals system. You really dont know anything about this case.
> 
> http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/n...Farm_travellers_in_eviction_stalling_tactics/



Reply to my post #413 or accept that I have proven you to be a liar.


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## stuff_it (Sep 16, 2011)

Here is what Dale Farm looked like before it was bought by Travellers...






There are now allegations (which judging from this picture are likely true) that Basildon Council tipped hardcore and concrete onto this land for years when they were using it as a vehicle impound lot. This is NOT greenfield by any stretch of the imagination, and it looks increasingly like it was the council that ruined the land in a way that it would be near-impossible to turn back into fields.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 16, 2011)

Ray Bocking, the previous owner of Dale Farm explaining how the council is responsible for concreting over the greenbelt land.


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## Ground Elder (Sep 16, 2011)

The green belt thing is a smoke screen from Basildon Council to, er, retrospectively justify their actions. They are pushing to build on (proper green field) green belt land themselves   Basildon Council will seize the land at Dale Farm to help pay for the eviction and I would not be at all surprised to see a housing estate there in a few years time.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 16, 2011)

doesn't really change anything the original settlement was legal and had no troubles it was when the Sheridan family decided to massively increase the numbers that the problems began.
 noticeably the legal pitches are mostly unoccupied at the present.


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## Ground Elder (Sep 16, 2011)

likesfish said:


> doesn't really change anything





> Councillor Geoff Williams said this morning "This news comes as a complete surprise to me, and undermines the case that the council has been making for years. If these things are true then it would seem that the councils claim for rejuvenating the land is an untenable one. If the ground was laid to local authority standards following the uses spelled out by Mr Bocking, it would be beyond any sensible attempt to reclaim this land for pasture or agricultural use."


 It has been suggested that 





> Basildon Council may be liable to a multi-million pound law suit, as a result of misuse of green belt land, misrepresentations of the status and quality of the land in communications to the general public and in court, and their sanctioning of the use of £18 million of public funds to 'restore green belt' which they themselves desecrated.


----------



## treelover (Sep 17, 2011)

Not sure it has been mentioned but apparently The Sun has said that the council should "let the locals loose on the site".

incitement?

no direct link sorry, from here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/sep/16/less-civil-society-britain-macpherson


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 17, 2011)

Anybody going there tomoro?? im gonna be leaving Liverpool station around 11ish.... cheapest return (coming back Monday sometime) is £19.20
http://dalefarm.wordpress.com/contact/

Welcome pack read before you head that way 

>Legal info
 Write on your arm before you get there:
 Dale Farm Legal Hotline: 07928 669 515
 Birds Solicitors: 07966 234 994
 Hodge Jones and Allen Solicitors: 07659 111 192
 Camp Constant site phone: 07583621312


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## gunneradt (Sep 17, 2011)

have fun


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## stuff_it (Sep 17, 2011)

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/localgovernment/pdf/1198171

Council tax isn't chargeable on a 'dwelling where occupation is forbidden by law' (page 15 of the above pdf), so the council may have been illegally charging council tax on the part of the site to be evicted.


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## claphamboy (Sep 18, 2011)

BBC News is this morning showing footage of caravans and mobile homes leaving the site as "the vast majority of travellers don't want a fight", with the eviction due tomorrow.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 18, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> BBC News is this morning showing footage of caravans and mobile homes leaving the site as "the vast majority of travellers don't want a fight", with the eviction due tomorrow.


 
I wonder how many are heading for Ireland.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 18, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You know when you see a certain name on the end of a thread?



Self agrandising cryptic posing when it's you.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 18, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I wonder how many are heading for Ireland.




*moves to Denmark, then Ireland, then Wales, then the US*

Even more confused.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 18, 2011)

*Dale Farm residents voice final plea*


With 24 hours until the eviction of Dale Farm, residents voice a final plea for an alternative site to move onto as they face forced eviction from their homes. Members of the community, joined by local and international supporters, are preparing to defend the Traveller community that bought the former scrap yard in Essex, a decade ago.
Many of the 87 families on the site have nowhere to go and are in a last minute struggle to make provisions for children and older people about to be thrown out of their homes when bailiffs Constant & Co, reputed for the aggressive and violent removal of Traveller families, move in on Monday.
The eviction plans, fought for ten years in numerous legal battles, have been widely condemned, including by the United Nations, Amnesty International and an all party parliamentary group. The plans are considered a breach of multiple rights of the families involved including the failure of authorities to find the community appropriate alternative accommodation.
Kathryn Flynn, mother of three and resident at Dale Farm for ten years said “I’m moving on to my uncle’s yard on the other side for tonight because I don’t want my children to go through this. I’m scared of what the bailiffs will do. They smash up our trailers – our homes. I don’t want my children to be in danger, so we’re moving them. But we’ve got nowhere to go after Monday. We don’t know what’s going to happen to us. Our children went to school for the last day on Friday. I don’t know what to tell them about tomorrow.” 
Fears of the conduct of bailiffs are not unfounded. Video footage showing the bailiffs aggressively removing Travellers from their homes and destroying their possessions were highlighted by the Judge in the 2008 legal case [1]. On Saturday 17September the Council admitted that it was aware that Constant and Co were using the word ‘pikey’, classed as a racist term of abuse since 2007, to attract people to the company’s website [2]. 
Activists and residents have been preparing defences to hold the site. Many have a sense of wider responsibility to defend the rights of Travellers who have been consistently discriminated against for centuries. John McCarthy, a Dale Farm resident for ten years said: “I’m standing here for the rights of Travellers. I’m here baring my heart to the press every day because this has got to change. My children can’t go through what we went through. We’re treated worse than any other community. They think it’s ok to break up a whole community and to throw us all on the roadside. To tell us we can’t come into shops, to pick on our kids, to treat us like we’re hardly human. We need to stand up against this prejudice. We need the right to live in peace. It’s not much to ask, to be allowed to live on an old scrap yard as a community.” 
The Council has declared that they will begin their assault on Dale Farm on Monday morning. 
*Notes to Editors*
[1] Judge Justice Collins comments in 2008 (1) “I have seen video footage which shows how the bailiffs employed by the council acted. The conduct was unacceptable and the evictions were carried out in a fashion which inevitably would have led to harm of those affected.”
[2] http://politicalscrapbook.net/2011/09/constant-and-co-dale-farm


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 18, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> Many of the 87 families on the site have nowhere to go



But is that a fact?
http://www.independent.ie/national-...n-row-owns-limerick-ghost-estate-2876012.html
http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Ir...ion-owns-Limerick-ghost-estate-129841523.html


----------



## likesfish (Sep 18, 2011)

I wouldn't be suprised if some travellers have made a mint out of housing benefit and others end up homeless on the side of the road


----------



## Next2China (Sep 18, 2011)

Just been watching a clip from Channel4 and i saw a sign hung over the entrance to Dale Farm with the words, "NO TO ETHNIC CLEANSING" written on it then the clip goes on to their "Spiritual home" in Ireland, Rathkyde where locals claim this is exactly what has happened to them, with the Travellers pushing out the locals, -flounting planning Laws and all in Laws in general in fact.

Perhaps the residents of Rathklyde should hav a similar sign up?
This is a bit more complex than is presented-


----------



## ddraig (Sep 18, 2011)

surprising amount of new posters with ever so inciteful 1st posts on this thread!


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 18, 2011)

Next2China said:


> Just been watching a clip from Channel4 and i saw a sign hung over the entrance to Dale Farm with the words, "NO TO ETHNIC CLEANSING" written on it then the clip goes on to their "Spiritual home" in Ireland, Rathkyde where locals claim this is exactly what has happened to them, with the Travellers pushing out the locals, -flounting planning Laws and all in Laws in general in fact.
> 
> Perhaps the residents of Rathklyde should hav a similar sign up?
> This is a bit more complex than is presented-



Have you actually got a fucking point to make here? Coz if you have for fucks sake make it.


----------



## Next2China (Sep 18, 2011)

I can't see what the point of going down there, Dale farm, other than to hav a little bit of fun. Get the adrenline , get the blood up, hav a bit of Fun.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 18, 2011)

So no then.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 18, 2011)

shit new troll is shit.


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 18, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> But is that a fact?
> http://www.independent.ie/national-...n-row-owns-limerick-ghost-estate-2876012.html
> http://www.irishcentral.com/news/Ir...ion-owns-Limerick-ghost-estate-129841523.html





> A 33-unit housing estate in County Limerick is the property of *one* of the Irish Travelers living on the illegal Dale Farm halting site in Britain.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 18, 2011)

slightly dodgy that poor about to be homeless traveller owns huge building site
  or can travellers not be dodgy?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 18, 2011)

Ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 18, 2011)

stephj said:


> Ifyoulikeitsomuchwhydontyougolivethere.


Down with spacebar and all it represents!

*shakes fist*


----------



## likesfish (Sep 18, 2011)

I think some travellers have not only be exploiting the situation at dale farm but also been making a fast buck off other travellers


----------



## Deareg (Sep 18, 2011)

Next2China said:


> I can't see what the point of going down there, Dale farm, other than to hav a little bit of fun. Get the adrenline , get the blood up, hav a bit of Fun.


Shows what a thick ignorant cunt you are then.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 18, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Shows what a thick ignorant cunt you are then.



Not agreeing with him but is there any point in going there tomorrow, the legal fight is loss and I'm struggling to think what can be achieved bar violence. I'm thinking in relation to the anti-Tescos riots in Bristol, the legal fight was lost, people rioted twice, _nothing_ was achieved by the violence as the shop continues to trade, the independents haven't suffered however people were/are still being jailed/prosecuted for taking part and this will affect their lives/employment chances for years. As far as I know not one independent shop owner rioted and a significant number of those arrested were not even local so would not have been affected either way.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 18, 2011)

There's not going to be much in the way of violence from the protesters but there'll be plenty from Constan & Co.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 18, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> There's not going to be much in the way of violence from the protesters but there'll be plenty from Constan & Co.



Your absolutely right and much from Essex OB too, unless your planning to go as a legal observer is there any point in going?


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 18, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> A 33-unit housing estate in County Limerick is the property of *one* of the Irish Travelers living on the illegal Dale Farm halting site in Britain.



That does not account for this:-
http://www.independent.ie/national-...rt-action-over-planning-breaches-2877285.html


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 18, 2011)

eh? Doesn't account for what?


> The sites, buildings and individuals under investigation by the local authority are not connected to the 33-unit housing estate in Rathkeale which is being built by a member of the Dale Farm community.This site is been built in accordance with planning and is not under investigation.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 18, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> eh? Doesn't account for what?


Did you actually read all of the article, other people from Dale Farm own property in that area, seperate to the one who is building 33 houses.


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 18, 2011)

No it doesn't - it says that some of them are related to Travellers at Dale farm


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 18, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Did you actually read all of the article, other people from Dale Farm own property in that area, seperate to the one who is building 33 houses.


It doesn't say that at all.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 18, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Your absolutely right and much from Essex OB too, unless your planning to go as a legal observer is there any point in going?



So you shouldn't bother with resistance/demonstrating because of the 'inevitable'? Fuck that.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 18, 2011)

Even if the resistance is going to be peaceful the more people there to bear witness, the less likely the police are to use violence. Everyone who goes should bring some kind of recording device.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 18, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Even if the resistance is going to be peaceful the more people there to bear witness, the less likely the police are to use violence. Everyone who goes should bring some kind of recording device.



I suspect there won't be any shortage of recording devices, plus it will all be shown live on Sky TV news.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 18, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I suspect there won't be any shortage of recording devices, plus it will all be shown live on Sky TV news.


I hope so.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 18, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I suspect there won't be any shortage of recording devices, plus it will all be shown live on Sky TV news.


That well known bastion of unbiased ne.... oh, who owns Sky News again?


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 18, 2011)

stephj said:


> So you shouldn't bother with resistance/demonstrating because of the 'inevitable'? Fuck that.



No I'm saying the battle is already lost, I'd just hate to see people get battered to fuck for nothing. Good luck if you're going and all others, I actually admire your commitment to that struggle and will be watching. Hope you make a difference, I really hope to be proved wrong.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 18, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> No I'm saying the battle is already lost, I'd just hate to see people get battered to fuck for nothing. Good luck if you're going and all others, I actually admire your commitment to that struggle and will be watching. Hope you make a difference, I really hope to be proved wrong.



Know what you mean. Frustratingly, I won't be able to get down there myself - partly on account of trying to hold down my job atm  Been involved in smaller, local actions in the past (resisting of eviction/removal of travellers, people seeking asylum, etc). Guess all I was trying to convey was that even when you know that an action is unwinnable, you just keep on going til the end.

I certainly hope it doesn't turn into some sort of Beanfield of modern times. Anyone in touch with AKA - would like to know how things are going down there?


----------



## DRINK? (Sep 18, 2011)

It seems these Dale Farm travellers  will do anything to get out of doing any travelling.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 18, 2011)

DRINK? said:


> It seems these Dale Farm travellers will do anything to get out of doing any travelling.



Oh for fucks sake


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 18, 2011)

DRINK? said:


> It seems these Dale Farm travellers will do anything to ensure their children, elderly and sick have stability and a base from which to travel.


Post corrected for you.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 18, 2011)

stephj said:


> Know what you mean. Frustratingly, I won't be able to get down there myself - partly on account of trying to hold down my job atm  Been involved in smaller, local actions in the past (resisting of eviction/removal of travellers, people seeking asylum, etc). Guess all I was trying to convey was that even when you know that an action is unwinnable, you just keep on going til the end.
> 
> I certainly hope it doesn't turn into some sort of Beanfield of modern times. Anyone in touch with AKA - would like to know how things are going down there?



Oh god the Beanfield, I hadn't thought of that. What worries me most is that the OB/bailiffs will see the protesters as a mixture of Gypsies and anarchists two groups they despise and won't hold back. I hope all the kids/elderly have been moved out.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 18, 2011)

DRINK? said:


> It seems these Dale Farm travellers will do anything to get out of doing any travelling.



Cock Of The Day - awarded to you.


----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2011)

Mass evictions usually start early, 6pm?


----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2011)




----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2011)

notice they have blanked out the SWP straplines...


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 19, 2011)

Travellers are fast learners


----------



## gosub (Sep 19, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Oh god the Beanfield, I hadn't thought of that. What worries me most is that the OB/bailiffs will see the protesters as a mixture of Gypsies and anarchists two groups they despise and won't hold back. *I hope all the kids/elderly have been moved out*.


Interesting piece on the Spectator blog, apperently there are a lot of people there too ill to move:
"Undeniably, some of the travellers here are too ill to be evicted. I have seen a report from an independent doctor who visited Dale Farm to carry out examinations on the instructions of lawyers. In the report, Dr Frank Arnold concluded, "It is my professional opinion that a significant number of the residents of Dale Farm who are being ordered to leave, would come to serious and predictable medical harm if they are evicted under present arrangements and time scale, and that for some, this harm would be irreversible. In one case it would almost certainly be fatal"."


----------



## girasol (Sep 19, 2011)

Bailiffs are there but haven't started the eviction yet.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)




----------



## BlackArab (Sep 19, 2011)

girasol said:


> Bailiffs are there but haven't started the eviction yet.



Starting at 10 apparently, watching the BBC and can see quite a few cameras/media. Stay safe people and good luck.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Oh god the Beanfield, I hadn't thought of that. What worries me most is that the OB/bailiffs will see the protesters as a mixture of Gypsies and anarchists two groups they despise and won't hold back. I hope all the kids/elderly have been moved out.


i think that if they had somewhere to go a lot of the people might have moved out. it's not like they're doing this for fun.


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## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2011)

been trying not to say it, but I hope a few bailiffs get badly hurt


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> been trying not to say it, but I hope a few bailiffs get badly hurt


only a few?


----------



## girasol (Sep 19, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14968148

Woman barricaded behind a gate.  Sign says that if anyone attempts to open the gate, the woman attached by her neck will be killed.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 19, 2011)

Solidarity with everyone their today standing up to state violence.


----------



## dylans (Sep 19, 2011)

I bet there will be a massive TESCOs on the site in a year or so


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 19, 2011)

No 'imminent evictions', another meeting with council agreed, according to Guardian journo there.


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## stuff_it (Sep 19, 2011)

dylans said:


> I bet there will be a massive TESCOs on the site in a year or so


Not like they can even use it for houses as the land is fucked, they are using greenfield sites up the road for that.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

Meeting between bailiffs and Dalefarm staff to discuss safety etc, apparently at 12 noon.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

Some police now in bailiffs compound, in discussions with security.


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## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

Last minute negotiations between travellers & council has failed.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 19, 2011)

They do need somewhere to go.


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## Ground Elder (Sep 19, 2011)

last minute negotiations have failed because the council refused to negotiate


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## stuff_it (Sep 19, 2011)

weltweit said:


> They do need somewhere to go.


Nowhere local though, apparently every bit of land nearby has security guards posted on it, even the Tescos.



Ground Elder said:


> last minute negotiations have failed because the council refused to negotiate


There's a surprise.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

weltweit said:


> They do need somewhere to go.





stuff_it said:


> Nowhere local though, apparently every bit of land nearby has security guards posted on it, even the Tescos.



As well as a national shortage of authorised sites.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

UN commission for Human Rights blocked from helping with negotiations at Dalefarm, story online shortly.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

Council leader Tony Ball says clearance will be today, and when it starts they will finish!


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

Council doing their propaganda bit on the Beeb right now


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> As well as a national shortage of authorised sites.


Oh, they won't get on an authorised site. Lol.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Oh, they won't get on an authorised site. Lol.



Quite!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> Council doing their propaganda bit on the Beeb right now



Fuckin' cunts!


----------



## likesfish (Sep 19, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> last minute negotiations have failed because the council refused to negotiate


its been dragging on for ten years  what the hell did they think was going to change to day.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

likesfish said:


> its been dragging on for ten years  what the hell did they think was going to change to day.



The council or the travellers?


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 19, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> UN commission for Human Rights blocked from helping with negotiations at Dalefarm, story online shortly.


Any link for this yet?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Any link for this yet?



Mention of it here on the Guardian update page:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2011/sep/19/dale-farm-evicitons-live?CMP=twt_gu



> 11.58am: Alexandra Topping has just filed this report saying that the government is trying to block the UN from getting involved in negotiations between Travellers and Basildon council.
> 
> This contrasts to the calls earlier this morning from Lid Dem MP Andrew George, the chair of the all party Parliamentary Group for Gypsy Roma Travellers, who said the UN should be invited around the table.
> 
> ...


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 19, 2011)

Bit late, but have we had this?



> Official materials from the bailiffs tasked with the removal of residents from Dale Farm travellers’ site in Essex refers to gypsies using the pejorative term “pikeys”, Scrapbook can reveal. The word, which has been viewed by British courts as racist, appears in a list of phrases used by Constant & Company to drive traffic to their website.
> 
> Described as the UK’s “most notorious anti-traveller bailiff firm”, the Bedfordshire-based company has been awarded a contract, thought to be worth more than two million pounds, to evict 86 families. The group lost a High Court appeal to stay in their homes after consistently being denied council planning permission for pitches on land which they have owned for ten years.


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## treelover (Sep 19, 2011)

The smarmy owner of Constant was interviewed on BBC news, he sounded so glib and public schoolboyish...

and very very brutal...


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 19, 2011)

Well according to them they'll be going in today so watching with great interest.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 19, 2011)

I was sceptical that they'd move in today, but thinking about it, here's some great free advertising to other councils and landowners. Then again, if they get the job done some time this week - peaceful or not - it's still good advertising.


----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2011)

yes, he said it will all be done within three days, he was so cold...


----------



## xes (Sep 19, 2011)

This story makes me so cross, and very sad. These are people for fuck sake. 

I'm currently fighting a website full of anti travellers, trying to get that point across. It's like trying to swin through treacle, upstream.

Good luck to the people of this site, and all of those who have been able to go there in support. I know what the end result will be, we all do, becasue we know whose side the goverment sponsered goons will be on.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

The racism on the dalefarm # is beyond belief - disgusting. And it saddens the fuck out of me that there are people who hold such views


----------



## cliche guevara (Sep 19, 2011)

It's times like this I'm glad I deleted facebook, I wouldn't be getting any work done at all. Twitter is bad enough, I've had to call out a couple of 'friends' on their dodgy and uninformed opinions.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 19, 2011)

Australian Sky news have said that the UK gvt is breaking the law.

http://www.skynews.com.au/topstories/article.aspx?id=661747&vId


----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2011)

Sky's Mark White paintbombed!

not sure how that will help the cause..

http://tvnewsroom.co.uk/news/mark-white-hit-by-paint-bomb-37876/


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 19, 2011)

No sure it wont. Shit shot as well. Don't these lot get target practice training?


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 19, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> The racism on the dalefarm # is beyond belief - disgusting. And it saddens the fuck out of me that there are people who hold such views


Indeed it is. I had a pair of right wingnuts reply to some of my tweets and one of them tried to claim that I was "bigoted" for suggesting that the action of the council and those who support this eviction are bigoted. Racism and anti-semitism are socially unacceptable but anti-ziganism remains acceptable.


----------



## treelover (Sep 19, 2011)

I've rang basildon council with my views, anyone else?


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## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

Preparing to go in


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

3 riot vans arrived 

Bailiffs and police officers entered.


----------



## girasol (Sep 19, 2011)

Nothing is going to stop this  When one of the travellers said that other communities didn't get ripped apart in this way, I wanted to tell her it happens all the time, in a subtler way, and it's been happening for years in cities/towns, where people are priced out and have to move away from their communities...  

The only people whose rights are fully respected and upheld are of those with money and connections with the powers that be.


----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 19, 2011)

girasol said:


> Nothing is going to stop this  When one of the travellers said that other communities didn't get ripped apart in this way, I wanted to tell her it happens all the time, in a subtler way, and it's been happening for years in cities/towns, where people are priced out and have to move away from their communities...
> 
> The only people whose rights are fully respected and upheld are of those with money and connections with the powers that be.


Yep, the Enclosure Acts, which denied people access to land.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 19, 2011)

Well here goes then. Would have to start during the bloody school run


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

Bailiffs have given their warning to evict 'on health and safety concerns' and have since exited the site again.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 19, 2011)

Hmm I heard the live broadcast on 5 Live. Using the Health and Safety regulations is a bit sneaky. Claiming that the barricade prevents the access of Emergency Services, and that they are concerned that the barrier is itself a danger is just an excuse really.

There is reportedly a notice on the gate saying that if they try to open the gate it could kill a woman who is tied to the gate by her neck. There is no information as to whether this is true. Now that the bailiffs have withdrawn I wonder if they intend to leave things quiet and come back when they are not expected. That will probably be at 4:00 in the morning if they have taken advice from the police.


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 19, 2011)

I think you are probably right, and would have the added benefit for the bailiffs of not having screams broadcast on prime time radio.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Sep 19, 2011)

The camp is doomed in any case. The occupants can hold off a single attempt to dislodge them, but they cannot live any length of time under a state of seige. They have to be able to come and go to lead a normal life.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 19, 2011)

Why would you believe constant if they say they're not operating after 6?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

Mary Flynn has just lost her appeal


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2011)

dylans said:


> I bet there will be a massive TESCOs on the site in a year or so



you lose again. there's an incinerator planned for the site.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Mary Flynn has just lost her appeal


 
Fucks sake 

This sums it all up for me...



> 3.58pm: Our reporter on the scene, Alexandra Topping, has been talking to a resident, who gave his name only as Michael. He said people were ready to resist the baliffs.
> 
> "If it comes to it we will use brute force," he said. "We've had enough of being treated like rats and dogs."
> 
> ...


----------



## peterkro (Sep 19, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Yep, the Enclosure Acts, which denied people access to land.



I've put up a petition to repeal the Inclosure acts (either word works Enclosure is more modern Inclosure is still used in legal documents),only three people have signed it.

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/3543

Duh!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

Cllr Tony Ball is on about £215 an hour to end the issue at Dalefarm, so he's not in a hurry. This figure was confirmed on Radio 4.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

peterkro said:


> I've put up a petition to repeal the Inclosure acts (either word works Enclosure is more modern Inclosure is still used in legal documents),only three people have signed it.



If you've not done so, do a thread/post a link to the petition


----------



## cliche guevara (Sep 19, 2011)

Someone has just told me that the Dale Farm residents were offered another site within visible distance of Dale Farm and they turned it down. Obviously there's more to it than that, does anyone know the full details?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> Someone has just told me that the Dale Farm residents were offered another site within visible distance of Dale Farm and they turned it down. Obviously there's more to it than that, does anyone know the full details?



All I'm aware of is this spiel from the councillor Tony Ball, which I don't buy for a moment.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> Someone has just told me that the Dale Farm residents were offered another site within visible distance of Dale Farm and they turned it down. Obviously there's more to it than that, does anyone know the full details?



Heard nothing of the sort.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

Hearing that electricity has been cut to the site.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> Hearing that electricity has been cut to the site.



Press Association report incorrect. There is electricity as normal at Dalefarm.


----------



## Plumdaff (Sep 19, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> Someone has just told me that the Dale Farm residents were offered another site within visible distance of Dale Farm and they turned it down. Obviously there's more to it than that, does anyone know the full details?



Cllr Tony Ball confirmed today that there were no other sites available in the area and the residents would be moved on.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/19/dale-farm-evictions-un-negotiation

His previous "offer" only applied to elderly and vulnerable residents (ever dealt with housing? wouldn't have applied to many people) and no doubt would not have been accomodation a traveller would find suitable.


----------



## cliche guevara (Sep 19, 2011)

It's funny how disgustingly right wing the normally wooly liberal reddit gets when presented with issues like this: http://www.reddit.com/r/unitedkingdom/comments/kkcuj/dale_farm_eviction_clashes_expected_between/

I am totally done with /r/unitedkingdom, there is no room for debate there, only the standard tory rhetoric spouted by idiots who the tory system actively crushes, and they can't even see it.


----------



## Flanflinger (Sep 19, 2011)

Do the Dale Farm residents really want that bunch of activists there ?


----------



## cliche guevara (Sep 19, 2011)

lagtbd said:


> Cllr Tony Ball confirmed today that there were no other sites available in the area and the residents would be moved on.
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/19/dale-farm-evictions-un-negotiation
> 
> His previous "offer" only applied to elderly and vulnerable residents (ever dealt with housing? wouldn't have applied to many people) and no doubt would not have been accomodation a traveller would find suitable.


Was this the three days of B&B offer? That's spitting in their faces.


----------



## cliche guevara (Sep 19, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> Do the Dale Farm residents really want that bunch of activists there ?


No. They want to be left alone to get on with their lives. They don't want the bailiffs or police there either.


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 19, 2011)

cliche guevara said:


> Was this the three days of B&B offer? That's spitting in their faces.



I heard about that too.  It's a fucking joke.

"Here, we know you're 57 and have diabetes, not to mention heart problems and we're going to make you homeless anyway.  But hey, don't worry, you can stay in the b&B for a few days".

Wankers.


----------



## il_bastardo (Sep 19, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Yep, the Enclosure Acts, which denied people access to land.



Interesting. Thanks Nino. Sounds a lot like today.
_It was afterwards claimied that this policy of repression was a brilliant success; that labourers ceased to riot and became docile, eager to get and to keep their jobs, and that pauperism steadily diminished from decade to decade._

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/janusg/landls.htm


----------



## peterkro (Sep 19, 2011)

Injunction staying eviction.


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 19, 2011)

Sounds like they've just won a small victory.
Injunction restraining the council from clearing the structures at the site


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

BBC report: Last-minute injunction won to prevent council clearing the structures in place at the site - now pending hearing at High Court on Friday.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Sep 19, 2011)

A spot of good news for the time being!


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 19, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> Do the Dale Farm residents really want that bunch of activists there ?


They were invited by the Dale Farm residents, who have been developing links with activists over the past few tears. They are very happy to have the support.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 19, 2011)

sorry if already posted
from the wonderful Tash
essex plod media pack



> *tashuk* tashuk
> 
> Essex Police response to enforcement action planned by Basildon at Dale Farm Media Pack tinyurl.com/6ywo9kv #*dalefarm*


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

Thanks for this ddraig, will take a look later.

Aye, Tash is a legend.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Sep 19, 2011)

documentary on channel 4 right now


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

101 for the benefit of poorly researched meedja, right-wingers and other assorted ignoramus:

1) Travelling is part of their way of life. They were really happy with this but the reason why they don't travel the road anymore is because successive governments and legislation have effectively outlawed it;

2) People keep telling them to fall into line with the rest of society. As travelling has been made almost impossible for them, they've instead bought bits of land and attempted to make a semi-permanent home/community of it. But they then get refused planning permission to do this too;

3) Locals often make up their mind about travellers in a negative light without even attempting to properly engage, despite travellers usually just wanting to be left alone to get on with their lives, and for e.g. send children to local schools to integrate. Travellers don't generally want to attract to much negative attention as they know how it will be used against them;

4) All communities, housing estates, neighbourhoods include some people that are anti-social. Funny how you always concentrate on minority groups and the working class disproportionately compared to anyone else.

kthxbai.


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 19, 2011)

expect there's a few people round the country wondering why gypsy kids get a council paid taxi to and from schools


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

0/10.


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> 0/10.


#dalefarm #onborrowedtime


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 19, 2011)

-1000/10


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

I really don't know why you're bothering gunneradt coz we all know you're full of shit


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> I really don't know why you're bothering gunneradt coz we all know you're full of shit



do you live nearby? No-one, absolutely no-one likes them


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> do you live nearby? No-one, absolutely no-one likes them



Not to Dale Farm, no. Have I lived next to and known travellers, yes. Have I lived next to and known squatters, yes. Have I lived next to and known people seeking asylum, yes. I think that covers all bases, now any other points you wanted to make?


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> Not to Dale Farm, no. Have I lived next to and known travellers, yes. Have I lived next to and known squatters, yes. Have I lived next to and known people seeking asylum, yes. I think that covers all bases, now any other points you wanted to make?



well trust me - no-one will shed any tears when they're gone.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> well trust me - no-one will shed any tears when they're gone.



And I'm aware of a few people down there supporting them that are from the local area.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

More 101...

1) Any mess left near a traveller site = must be the travellers;

2) Any anti-social nearby = must be the travellers;

3) Any crime nearby = must be the travellers.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> More 101...
> 
> 1) Any mess left near a traveller site = must be the travellers;
> 
> ...



Yep, the local scrotes come out of the woodwork when there are travellers nearby to take the flack.

I find it a tricky one - mixture of decent people and arseholes on both sides.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 19, 2011)

I fail to see why the council feel unable to enforce fly tipping legislation if it is as blatant as suggested on the dispatches program.

Also, near where I live the amount of dog shit pumped into the surrounding fields from people walking their animals is criminal but i don't see basildon council spending millions to prosecute the owners.


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 19, 2011)

Those supporting them are very few and far between - probably some shop owners from wickford.

Im sure none of the local crimes are anything to do with any of them.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 19, 2011)

kenny g said:


> I fail to see why the council feel unable to enforce fly tipping legislation if it is as blatant as suggested on the dispatches program.



Don't you have to catch them at it?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

8ball said:


> I find it a tricky one - mixture of decent people and arseholes on both sides.



That's just reflective of society and its people as a whole though innit?!

I mean, where I live, to use as an illustration, we've constantly had minor but regular anti-social from a turnover of short-term tenants, all of whom have been professional people (one of the worst offenders had a very good job in the city, drove a flashy car, etc. and was frankly a right cunt). Now clearly, that doesn't equal 'all professional people are bad'. But, the one time the local press made a lot of fuss over problems of anti-social in our street they put it down to 'rising jobless immigrants in the area'.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> That's just reflective of society and its people as a whole though innit?!.



Yes, that's exactly what I was getting at.  When both sides become so entrenched and only the exact opposite of what the other side wants will do then some decent people are going to suffer for it either way.  Generally at the hand of arseholes from one side or the other.



stephj said:


> I mean, where I live, to use as an illustration, we've constantly had minor but regular anti-social from a turnover of short-term tenants, all of whom have been professional people (one of the worst offenders had a very good job in the city, drove a flashy car, etc. and was frankly a right cunt). Now clearly, that doesn't equal 'all professional people are bad'. But, the one time the local press made a lot of fuss over problems of anti-social in our street they put it down to 'rising jobless immigrants in the area'.



Plays better with the advertisers.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 19, 2011)

If activists leave the site today, will they be allowed back on to take up positions again on Friday? A deeply cynical thought has been knocking around my mind since the news about the injunction.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Sep 19, 2011)

8ball said:


> Yep, the local scrotes come out of the woodwork when there are travellers nearby to take the flack.
> 
> I find it a tricky one - mixture of decent people and arseholes on both sides.



There certainly are and yes it's a tricky one, but my sympathies are largely with the travellers, even after hearing one of them on the radio this morning being asked why they (some of the more vulnerable ones) hadn't moved out for their own safety, replying that "Some of them are widows and so have no one to tow them out."!!!


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 19, 2011)

Andrew Hertford said:


> There certainly are and yes it's a tricky one, but my sympathies are largely with the travellers, even after hearing one of them on the radio this morning being asked why they (some of the more vulnerable ones) hadn't moved out for their own safety, replying that "Some of them are widows and so have no one to tow them out."!!!


 
I agree with that, I've not got a great deal of time for travellers, but this eviction seems singularly pointless - They've got to live somewhere.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 19, 2011)

Frances Lengel said:


> I agree with that, I've not got a great deal of time for travellers, but this eviction seems singularly pointless - They've got to live somewhere.



In the houses they own elsewhere would seem to be the obvious solution.


----------



## Jackobi (Sep 19, 2011)

I say just let them fucking have Essex.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> In the houses they own elsewhere would seem to be the obvious solution.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 19, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> In the houses they own elsewhere would seem to be the obvious solution.


 
Well alright, waste millions on this eviction - it's bullshit, the land was never going to be used for owt else, just let them stay there.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


>



Why the hand over the face. They are most certainly not the poverty stricken people their propaganda machine is portraying.
Apparently some of them own houses in France as well as Ireland.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 19, 2011)

Frances Lengel said:


> Well alright, waste millions on this eviction - it's bullshit, the land was never going to be used for owt else, just let them stay there.



Ok, then anyone else can buy a plot of land and put a house on it without applying for planning permission.
They broke the law they should have the same enforcement as anyone else does, bulldozed flat.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> do you live nearby? No-one, absolutely no-one likes them


 
nobody likes you, so maybe you should be ethnically cleansed.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

Not much hope with this one, eh Butchers?!


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 19, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Why the hand over the face. They are most certainly not the poverty stricken people their propaganda machine is portraying.
> Apparently some of them own houses in France as well as Ireland.


 
Some of them might do, but what the fuck? Let them stay at Dale Farm, they're doing no harm.


----------



## Jackobi (Sep 19, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Apparently some of them own houses in France as well as Ireland.



Homeowners can't be poverty stricken?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 19, 2011)

It doesn't really matter whether they're poverty stricken or not, just give the cunts a plot - It's not much to ask really.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 19, 2011)

Frances Lengel said:


> It doesn't really matter whether they're poverty stricken or not, just give the cunts a plot - It's not much to ask really.



Try doing the same as they have and see how long it takes for the council to bulldoze the house you have built without planning permission.
The law HAS to be enforced with equal rigour.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 19, 2011)

wtf is the judge (or reporter) on about here?  'student' 


> *'Give and take'*
> He said he would consider whether there were any remaining issues justifying a further extension of the injunction at 11:30 BST on Friday.
> The judge said residents were to take reasonable steps to permit council officials on site to discuss arrangements with individuals, to discourage any further *student* protest and to procure the dismantling of barricades.
> He told Candy Sheridan, vice-chair of the Gypsy Council of North Norfolk, resident Mary Sheridan, volunteer Stuart Carruthers and the council's barrister Reuben Taylor: "It is in nobody's interests that we have a riot on this site.
> "There's got to be a bit of give and take over a limited timeframe to see if the problems can be dealt with in an orderly rather than disruptive way."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-14978942


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> nobody likes you, so maybe you should be ethnically cleansed.



ho ho

are you still sweeping roads?


----------



## free spirit (Sep 19, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Ok, then anyone else can buy a plot of land former scrapyard and put a house on it  pull your caravans on to it while applying for planning permission because you'd been kicked off everywhere else and had nowhere else to go, without applying for planning permission.
> 
> They broke the law because they had no other option, they should have the same enforcement rights within the planning system as anyone else does, and the council shouldn't lie and designate a former scrapyard that it had helped create as greenbelt land in order to justify their refusal to grant planning permission, so their homes should be bulldozed flat allowed to stand and granted retrospective planning permission, plus compensation for the unnecessary stress caused.


corrected for you. HTH


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 19, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Try doing the same as they have and see how long it takes for the council to bulldoze the house you have built without planning permission.
> The law HAS to be enforced with equal rigour.


 
It's *NOT* being enforced with equal rigour though, is it? Travellers never get planning permission.   Now I'm not one to look at Irish Travellers through rose-tinteds, but the only sensible resolution I can see is - *Give them the space and the means to live on their own terms, without bothering the rest of us*...And then *maybe*, in several decades time, we could learn things from each others cultures, ya know like they could learn to set store by reading and we could learn the simple justice of settling an argument through violence. I'm not trolling BTW, it pisses me off when people try to assert that violence is always wrong - nah, there's a place for it.

And that place is on the end of my fist...lol. Though that's not a euphamism for anal fisting. Fuck it, I know I'm a spoilsport.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 19, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Why the hand over the face. They are most certainly not the poverty stricken people their propaganda machine is portraying.
> Apparently some of them own houses in France as well as Ireland.


Apparently you love making unsubstantiated post and posting rumours.


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 19, 2011)

Frances Lengel said:


> It's *NOT* being enforced with equal rigour though, is it? Travellers never get planning permission. Now I'm not one to look at Irish Travellers through rose-tinteds, but the only sensible resolution I can see is - *Give them the space and the means to live on their own terms, without bothering the rest of us*...And then *maybe*, in several decades time, we could learn things from each others cultures, ya know like they could learn to set store by reading and we could learn the simple justice of settling an argument through violence. I'm not trolling BTW, it pisses me off when people try to assert that violence is always wrong - nah, there's a place for it.
> 
> And that place is on the end of my fist...lol. Though that's not a euphamism for anal fisting. Fuck it, I know I'm a spoilsport.



Didn't that documentary state that gypsies were more likely to get planning permission?

Let's not call them travellers - Ive no idea where that phrase came from.  Alan Whicker was a 'traveller'.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> Didn't that documentary state that gypsies were more likely to get planning permission?
> 
> Let's not call them travellers - Ive no idea where that phrase came from. Alan Whicker was a 'traveller'.


 
The term "travellers" comes from Irish Travellers - Who are a recognised ethnic group - Who I'd never for one minute thought I'd end up defending, but no, they never (or at least rarely) get planning permission - That's why they have to (Yes, they do "have to") apply retrospectively.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> Let's not call them travellers - Ive no idea where that phrase came from. Alan Whicker was a 'traveller'.



Because they used to live their lives on the road until the state put paid to that. God your fucking thick.


----------



## Lock&Light (Sep 19, 2011)

kenny g said:


> Also, near where I live the amount of dog shit pumped into the surrounding fields from people walking their animals is criminal but i don't see basildon council spending millions to prosecute the owners.



That, IMO, is fatuous to an extreme.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> Because they used to life their lives on the road until the state put paid to that. God your fucking thick.


Don't even waste your time on the ignorant fuck.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Don't even waste your time on the ignorant fuck.



Yeah I know.


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> Because they used to live their lives on the road until the state put paid to that. God your fucking thick.



The term 'traveller' didn't exist in the 70s for sure.  And you'll find there's an 'e' on the end of 'your'.

Pots and kettles eh?


----------



## Lock&Light (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> The term 'traveller' didn't exist in the 70s for sure. And you'll find there's an 'e' on the end of 'your'.
> 
> Pots and kettles eh?



I remember, in NW Scotland in the 50's and 60's, the yearly arrival of the "tinkers", but I also know that they did think of themselves as travellers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> The term 'traveller' didn't exist in the 70s for sure. And you'll find there's an 'e' on the end of 'your'.
> 
> Pots and kettles eh?


bollocks. see, for example, 'time for a better deal with the gypsies' by judith okely on page 6 of the times, 16 june 1976, or 'conference seeks tolerance for gypsies' on page 4 of the times, 17 september 1976.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> The term 'traveller' didn't exist in the 70s for sure. And you'll find there's an 'e' on the end of 'your'.



I've read material in the past from the 50/60s which refers to 'Irish travellers'. That you've resorted to picking me up on a simple your/you're typo is pretty desperate stuff.


----------



## free spirit (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> Didn't that documentary state that gypsies were more likely to get planning permission?
> 
> Let's not call them travellers - Ive no idea where that phrase came from. Alan Whicker was a 'traveller'.


I'm not entirely sure where this stat comes from, but I've seen it used a fair amount and haven't seen anything to refute it, but feel free to produce some evidence to refute it if you like...



> Only 10% of initial planning applications by Gypsies and Travellers succeed compared to 80% of applications from the settled population


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 19, 2011)

what's the difference between a gypsy and a traveller then?


----------



## 19sixtysix (Sep 19, 2011)

Lock&Light said:


> I remember, in NW Scotland in the 50's and 60's, the yearly arrival of the "tinkers", but I also know that they did think of themselves as travellers.



I remember the tinkers in their green canvass benders by the sides of the roads when I was a kid. Not sure the last time I saw one. Late 70's early 80's?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> what's the difference between a gypsy and a traveller then?


 
Well a gypsy is a Roma, as in a Romany gypsy - Thought to have origins in India - Dunno about their customs.

Traveller tends to be Irish traveller - Often lumped in with Roma gypsies, but in reality have little in common. Kinda matriarchal society in which the bloke is expected to hand overe his dollars to his Mrs ,who makes all decisions, though the bloke is expected to fight for his family if the occasion demands.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> what's the difference between a gypsy and a traveller then?



Not entirely sure what your point is?

Gypsy is a term that can be broadly applied to any nomadic/travelling peoples, but most often used when referring to Romani.


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> Not entirely sure what your point is?
> 
> Gypsy is a term that can be broadly applied to any nomadic/travelling peoples, but most often used when referring to Romani.



My point is they were all called 'gypsies'.  It seems we now call them travellers for some strange reason - which is the thing they do least of all


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> My point is they were all called 'gypsies'. It seems we now call them travellers for some strange reason - which is the thing they do least of all



No, it's just that you seem to be woefully ignorant of the whole history, despite it having been pointed out above that both 'traveller' is not a new term by any means, and that the reason they aren't able to 'travel' as they would like is down to being hindered in doing so by the state. Good grief.


----------



## free spirit (Sep 19, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> My point is they were all called 'gypsies'. It seems we now call them travellers for some strange reason - which is the thing they do least of all


traveller's an all encompassing term for gypsy travellers, irish travellers, and any others living a travelling lifestyle or from that heritage, eg hippies (ex or current), or 'new age' traveller / free festival types / ravers or anyone else living in vans, caravans etc for more than just the odd summer festival trip.

Gypsy is really more specific.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 19, 2011)

free spirit said:


> traveller's an all encompassing term for gypsy travellers, irish travellers, and any others living a travelling lifestyle or from that heritage, eg hippies (ex or current), or 'new age' traveller / free festival types / ravers or anyone else living in vans, caravans etc for more than just the odd summer festival trip.
> 
> Gypsy is really more specific.


 
Personally, I hate those grebo scruffy cunts, and even though I aint got much time for travellers, well...


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 19, 2011)

Gypsy - from Eygyption, which is where the first Romani people to reach this country about 500 years ago were thought to have come from. Linguistic evidence points to their actual origins in north India about 1000 years ago. Travellers is a generic term used Romani Gypsies, Irish Travellers and New Travellers alike. Romani Gypsies used to mostly refer to themselves as Travellers, but begun to favour Gypsy or Romani to distinguish themselves from the Irish Travellers when they begun settling in numbers the UK during the 70s.

Is that simple enough for you to understand gunneradt?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 19, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> Gypsy - from Eygyption, which is where the first Romani people to reach this country about 500 years ago were thought to have come from. Linguistic evidence points to their actual origins in north India about 1000 years ago. Travellers is a generic term used Romani Gypsies, Irish Travellers and New Travellers alike. Romani Gypsies used to mostly refer to themselves as Travellers, but begun to favour Gypsy or Romani to distinguish themselves from the Irish Travellers when they begun settling in numbers the UK during the 70s.
> 
> Is that simple enough for you to understand gunneradt?


it won't be  you've used words of more than one syllable


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 20, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> it won't be  you've used words of more than one syllable



oh, the wit!!

still, four more days of fun for 17 the hippies and 6 urbanites to defend their existence


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 20, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> oh, the wit!!
> 
> still, four more days of fun for 17 the hippies and 6 urbanites to defend their existence


some sort of acknowledgement that you were wrong about the word 'traveller' (see post 604) would go some way towards persuading me that you do have some wit after all.


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 20, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> some sort of acknowledgement that you were wrong about the word 'traveller' (see post 604) would go some way towards persuading me that you do have some wit after all.



ha ha, I do have wit (and you do too occasionally).  I knew the answer - I was just curious as to why we seem to have replaced the word gypsy with traveller - i think it's a euphemism surrounding gypsies.  Almost as if gypsy is a dirty word for some reason.  Having said that you should hear what most locals call them!!!


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 20, 2011)

Maybe because most of the press coverage over the past months has been about Irish Travellers and not Gypsies? Obviously I didn't explain in simple enough terms.


----------



## dylans (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Ok, then anyone else can buy a plot of land and put a house on it without applying for planning permission.
> They broke the law they should have the same enforcement as anyone else does, bulldozed flat.



This "planning permission was denied" argument is dishonest.

Planning permission is almost always denied to travelling communities. The commission for racial equality found that 90% of planning applications by travellers are denied compared to 20% for everyone else. There is therefore a racist motivation behind the refusal of planning applications to travellers. If people insist that "they should have the same enforcement as anyone else" then they should first ensure that travellers are not discriminated against in the granting  of those permissions.

Also there is a legal requirement by local authorities to provide culturally appropriate sites for travellers but these requirements are routinely flouted. Nationally councils are 4000 sites below the legal targets because they simply do not provide them. So the same councils who pompously lecture travellers about the need to obey the law, are quite happy to ignore their own legal responsibilities when it suits them..


----------



## likesfish (Sep 20, 2011)

maybe possibly because travellers nearly always buy cheap agricultural land then try to build on it?
 hence always getting refused.
  its not racist if your always trying to bend the rules and get called on it?
  the traveler building the estate in Ireland isn't being called on his planning application so it can be done. you just need to cross the ts and dot the i's. not rock up on a bank holiday and then cry wacist wacist when evryone tunrs against you.


----------



## dylans (Sep 20, 2011)

> maybe possibly because travellers nearly always buy cheap agricultural land then try to build on it?



3 things.
First so what? If the land is theirs and if it is legally bought why shouldn't they build their homes on it? The likes of Basildon Council have been quite happy to grant planning permission to build on greenbelt land when it suits them. They recently granted permission for construction of a waste recycling plant http://www.basildonrecorder.co.uk/news/9207022.Plans_for_expansion_at_area_waste_depot/?ref=rss
and in 2010 they sold 172 acres of greenbelt land to the housing firm Barrat Homes.
http://www.basildonrecorder.co.uk/archive/2010/12/17/Thurrock News (thurrock_news)/8744777.Protest_group_show_dismay_at_council_offices_over_greenbelt_development_plans/

So they are quite happy to wave the rules when it suits them, but then Barrats don't build homes for travellers. Denial of planning permission is a well rehearsed tactic for driving communities from their homes. The Israeli's do exactly the same in East Jerusalem ahead of bulldozing Palestinian homes. Their spokesmen also cite the same tired old crap about "the need to apply the law equally" too

Second. As you well know, the Dale Farm site was a scrapyard before travellers bought it. By all accounts it was a stinking eyesore with battery acid leaking into the ground before travellers cleaned it up. The image that is being presented of travellers ruining some unspoilt bit of picturesque English meadow is blatantly untrue.

Third, If local councils are really so concerned about the land that travellers use for their communities then they should meet their own obligations under law and provide the sites they are obliged to provide. Instead this govt have cut 30 million for new sites.

The disputed site is an extention of an already existing and completely legal community. It makes perfect sense at all levels least of all humanitarian to just give them the bloody planning permission and leave them alone. Instead the council are spending millions to drive families from their homes with nowhere to go. We are going to see a repeat of the 80s with groups of people moved from pillar to post, car park to roadside in ongoing battles with police and bailiffs.

Of course the motivation is racist, the council spokesmen yesterday could barely conceal their contempt for them. This eviction has been recognised as racist by the likes of Amnesty international and the UN Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination (CERD) and the Council of Europe's Commissioner for Human Rights Thomas Hammarberg. This community have been denied planning permission, like travellers always are because local councils don't want travellers in their districts. That is blatant racism. They are being driven off their land because of their ethnicity and they are being denied culturally appropriate sites because of a widespread desire to end their way of life and force them into council flats, something that is anathema to their culture. This is part of a wider, nasty mindset that is outraged by alternative lifestyles or cultures and wishes to force minority communities to abandon their way of life in the name of "integration. This is what this is about, Basildon council wish to break up the community there and separate its residents as a way of destroying them culturally.

There is a name for that type of racially motivated persecution, its called ethnic cleansing and you should be fucking ashamed of yourself for defending it.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 20, 2011)

dylans said:


> There is a name for that type of racially motivated persecution, its called ethnic cleansing and you should be fucking ashamed of yourself for defending it.



Have you ever had "travellers" living near you?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

You know, you could always respond properly to Dylans excellent post, instead of lazily resorting to the 'have you ever had them living near you' line. It never works and just marks you out as a cunt with lack of argument.


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Have you ever had "travellers" living near you?



I have. What of it?


----------



## dylans (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Have you ever had "travellers" living near you?



Oh I see. so the issue ISN'T planning permission, or greenbelt land or the "need to uphold the law" or any of the other tired old crap that is being used to evict this community. The issue is not wanting travelling communities living ANYWHERE. You don't want traveller sites anywhere regardless of their legal status.

At least you are an honest racist.


----------



## Athos (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Have you ever had "travellers" living near you?


Yes.  And very few of them are as nasty as you.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 20, 2011)

Also the official sites are often horrible.

There is a big one in Leeds callled 'cottingley springs'. It is siutated miles from the city, between a toxic waste site, a motorway and a cemetry. The pitches are packed in tight and the residents are charged eye watering rents. Despite the fact that there are some 100 children on the site their is not even a single fucking swing in terms of facililities. The only open space is a tennis pitch sized square of broken concrete.

I'm surprised that the council didn't errect a statue of a hand giving it the middle finger opposite the site so clear is their insitutionalised contempt for the community.

Visisting the site is like stepping into another centurary, another country.

And there's another point about Dale Farm that is being overlooked. This is not just about the inequites of the planning commision - this is about a close knit community being violently destroyed. Travellers families will be disperesed to the tender mercies of the social housing system - probably being made homeless, shoved into hostels and then ending up isolated and vunerable on the worst estates in the area (all at considerable cost to the public).

Bleating on about 'the rule of law' when that rule is the product of insitutionalised injustice and racism against the poorest and teh disempowered is not an argument or debate - its the language of cunts.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Have you ever had "travellers" living near you?


Is it their genes or their culture t?


----------



## Deareg (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Have you ever had "travellers" living near you?


I have, I have also had Black and Asians living near me too, and even some Jews, What is your point?


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 20, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> do you live nearby? No-one, absolutely no-one likes them


Simply not true, which you'd know if you'd actually talked to them.


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## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

Even that anti-travelers dispatches program last night easily enough found locals defending them. Another open lie from gunner.


----------



## Athos (Sep 20, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I have, I have also had Black and Asians living near me too, and even some Jews, What is your point?


Apparantly, there's a gay in my village.  Beat that.


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## likesfish (Sep 20, 2011)

The disputed site is an extention of an already existing and completely legal community.
 theirs the rub site legal no problems 40 families no issues
 double that to 100 then apply for planning permission yeah that's going to work.   Its not ethnic cleansing its called taking the piss added the topping a lot of the legal pitches are empty a lot of the time hence reasonable people assume you decide the the rules don't apply well surprise suprise they do.
  Sheridan family dodgier than a dodgy thing probably got away with a few extra chalets if they'd played the game went for broke though and decided to take the state on and surprise suprise they lost.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 20, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I have, I have also had Black and Asians living near me too, and even some Jews, What is your point?



I will alter that slightly for the purposes of clarification, have you ever had "travellers" illegally camped  near you?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

You're not helping yourself.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

Oh, and before you reply with some lame arse response because it appears to be your forte.

Yes, I have had a traveller family camped up next to the flats where I then lived. The spot of land and what was left of an old building that had been left rotting for years by a private landowner and occasionally being set fire to - which despite us trying to get made stable/cleared was met with nothing but inaction by them.

When a neighbour found out that I had befriended the family, that neighbour went overnight from being 'a concerned neighbour' to sending me abuse too. They kicked up a storm and finally the family moved on, leaving not a trace of them having been there.

A year later, the landowner still left the site in a state, with the building arsoned in the meantime and the council did shit about it. But they were quick to poke their nose in when the traveller family were parked up.


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## Blagsta (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I will alter that slightly for the purposes of clarification, have you ever had "travellers" illegally camped  near you?


I already said yes. Again, what of it?


----------



## likesfish (Sep 20, 2011)

stephj said:


> Oh, and before you reply with some lame arse response because it appears to be your forte.
> 
> Yes, I have had a traveller family camped up next to the flats where I then lived. The spot of land and
> .


 
 that's rather different from my experience the local park repeatedly  trashed by travellers loads of rubbish left. Stones thrown at my kids school to such an extent police were called.
    strangely the new age travellers who'd bee parked up before caused no problems.


----------



## Dan U (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I will alter that slightly for the purposes of clarification, have you ever had "travellers" illegally camped near you?



yeah i have. i lived nearish to Epsom Racecourse. When the authorities took away one of the main park ups that they used on the Downs at Derby time (a big traditional meet up) then illegal park ups would occur the week or so either side of the Derby across the area.

Some were fine, one big (disused) playing field got repeatedly trashed for a couple of summers in a row. It's the last bit everyone remembers though isn't it whilst not considering the park up they used to have being taken away.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 20, 2011)

likesfish said:


> that's rather different from my experience the local park repeatedly trashed by travellers loads of rubbish left. Stones thrown at my kids school to such an extent police were called.
> strangely the new age travellers who'd bee parked up before caused no problems.



Different experiences of different people obviously calls for blanket characterisation of entire group.

Louis (Brightonian) Macneice


----------



## xes (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I will alter that slightly for the purposes of clarification, have you ever had "travellers" illegally camped near you?


There are 2 traveller sites near me. I live in a rather nice town with lots of things to steal. But, alas, no travellers have come and stollen everything.   You know what else, we get more criminal behaviour, from people who live in houses and flats, who come from neighbouring towns. Pretty much all of the street robberies round here, come from little fuckoids who either live in this town, or the next couple either side. Not from the travellers, who live on the outskirt and who just want to live their lives.

I have a little story, I've probably told it before, but it's worth telling again, just to show that the travelling comminity aren't the aresholes people think they are. They're a persecuted community. And I added to that one NYE, much to my shame and embarrasment. I shall go on.....

It was New Years Eve, in one of my local pubs, who doesn't charge for NYE. It was about 8pm, amd we were just getting started. When *gasp* about 40 or so people from the nearest traveller site came in. I hadn't started Djing yet, so I was just going round talking to people, some of the people I was talking to belonged to the site. They were cool, well dressed and well behaved. Now, the landlord of this pub, who is an ex boxer dude, shat himself. (not litterally) he dissapeared upstairs and ordered the bar staff (3 young lasses) to get everyone out of the pub, and close for an hour while the "pikeys" found somewhere else that would take them. The girls behind the bar were too scared to do so, and suggested that as I was the DJ, I had control of the mic and should close the place up.  To say i wasn't happy about this, would be to lie a little. And I told the staff that I wasn't going to pull aby punches, and I was going to give these people the truth. So I got behind the decks, and grabbed the mic. I said something along the lines of this. " I'm very sorry to the everyone who have come in to celebrate the new year with us, but the landlord has shit himself and is upstairs under his bed covers shaking with fear. He has instructed us to close for a private party. Again, I am truly sorry for those who wanted to have a drink with us, I feel like  acunt saying this, but it's what I have been asked to say"

I put the mic down, and immediatly went to say sorry to the travellers. They knew only too well why I had said what I had said. Most of them looked rather put out, and dejected. A sort of "oh well, better find somewhere else then" look befell them, a look they must have practised over and over again,as when ever they come out in groups, for a funeral or birthday, all of the local pubs ring round and close up. As i was outside trying my best to appologise, a few of the older guys actually gave me a hug, and thanked me for being truthful. They told me to not worry, becasue they were used to it. I told them that it was for that very reason that I was worried, becasue it ment that they had been turfed out of many venues, for no reason at all, other than where they were from. And that was a big problem for me. They were so fucking nice about it, it truly humbled me. These people are just people, and anyone who says "they're all criminals" hasn't got a fucking clue. I see one or 2 of them around every now and then, and we usually share a passing nod and smile.

Another time at a certain urbanite wedding, the DJ was a husband and wife/son team from a site. I was talking to the husband outside for a bit, when he stopped and actually thanked me for talking to him like a human being. Again, I was a little shocked at this, I've never been thanked just for treating someone as my equal. I really didn't know what to say, i wantedto say sorry, sorry for all of the arseholes who think ill of them. He thanked me for just talking to him, and not judging him on where he was from. he was a nice bloke, and to think that people have shunned him and his family, jest for being a traveller, makes me feel sick. He was sound as fuck.

I don't know why I just typed all of this out, the anti traveller wankers aren't going to change their position until the daily mail tells them that it's alright to do so. As that seems to be their mentality, and only level of thinking. I'm not sure who I feel sorry for the most, those who are persecuted so much, or those who do the persecuting, without any real knowledge of the people whey persecute.

I shall leave you with an ancient Mayan saying. In Lak'ech Ala K'in. Which means "I am another you, and you are another me" We should all remember that a little more often than we do.


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

I grew up in a very quiet 70's/80's mainly crime-free Mid-Wales, one summer some travellers, (I reckon about 10 or so caravans worth), rocked up to a field near my house, resulting in a spate of thefts, mainly clothes from washing lines........but, they nicked my white Raleigh flyer which I loved more than anything, I know the traveller kids nicked it because me & my mates sat on the fence next to their field and watched the kids playing on my(and others) bike. It was a painful sight.

For that reason I don't really care for travellers. They upset the 9 year old me a great deal.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 20, 2011)

xes said:


> I don't know why I just typed all of this out, the anti traveller wankers aren't going to change their position until the daily mail tells them that it's alright to do so.



The "anti "traveller" wankers," are basing there comments on personal experience, not the Daily Mail.
I certainly would not want any "travellers" camped near me ever again, and it isn't just based on one lot of "travellers."


----------



## andy2002 (Sep 20, 2011)

The amount of disinformation and bullshit going around my part of Essex about the Dale Farm site would be funny if it wasn't so pathetic. The woman who cut my hair the other day told me that travellers hate cats and if one happens to stray onto their site it will never be seen again and that travellers routinely come and shit in your garden or, at the very least, throw their shit over your garden wall. She doesn't live in the Dale Farm area and really has no idea about the site itself, she was just repeating whatever ludicrous gossip she'd been told by mates and family. Think I'll be getting my hair cut somewhere else in future.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> The "anti "traveller" wankers," are basing there comments on personal experience, not the Daily Mail.
> I certainly would not want any "travellers" camped near me ever again, and it isn't just based on one lot of "travellers."


No travelers lived near you.


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> The "anti "traveller" wankers," are basing there comments on personal experience, not the Daily Mail.





roctrevezel said:


> I certainly would not want any "travellers" camped near me ever again, and it isn't just based on one lot of "travellers."



You're a freakish prejudiced weirdo. I wouldn't want to live anywhere near you.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> The "anti "traveller" wankers," are basing there comments on personal experience, not the Daily Mail.
> I certainly would not want any "travellers" camped near me ever again, and it isn't just based on one lot of "travellers."



Tbf, not even the Daily Fail puts traveller in quotes.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 20, 2011)

I guess he's just itching to say 'pikey/gypo scum' but has to mask his hate filled bigotry cos of 'so called political correctness'.

Last bastion of acceptable racism innit?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> I guess he's just itching to say 'pikey/gypo scum' but has to mask his hate filled bigotry cos of 'so called political correctness'.
> 
> Last bastion of acceptable racism innit?


Don't forget us chavs


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> I grew up in a very quiet 70's/80's mainly crime-free Mid-Wales, one summer some travellers, (I reckon about 10 or so caravans worth), rocked up to a field near my house, resulting in a spate of thefts, mainly clothes from washing lines........but, they nicked my white Raleigh flyer which I loved more than anything, I know the traveller kids nicked it because me & my mates sat on the fence next to their field and watched the kids playing on my(and others) bike. It was a painful sight.
> 
> For that reason I don't really care for travellers. They upset the 9 year old me a great deal.



Ah - the 'stealing your washing' urban myth.

I'm sure losing your bike upset you.
Some Pakistaini kids nicked my car 20 years ago, they broke the headlights, dented the front and tried to set it alight. It proper fucked me off.
So by your argument it would perfectly fine for me to now be prejudiced agasint all Pakistanis yes?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Ah - the 'stealing your washing' urban myth.
> 
> I'm sure losing your bike upset you.
> Some Pakistaini kids nicked my car 20 years ago, they broke the headlights, dented the front and tried to set it alight. It proper fucked me off.
> So by your argument it would perfectly fine for me to now be prejudiced agasint all Pakistanis yes?


All illegaly parked "Pakistanis" - yes.


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## Kaka Tim (Sep 20, 2011)

Yes I forgot the inverted commas.


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## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Ah - the 'stealing your washing' urban myth.
> 
> I'm sure losing your bike upset you.
> Some Pakistaini kids nicked my car 20 years ago, they broke the headlights, dented the front and tried to set it alight. It proper fucked me off.
> So by your argument it would perfectly fine for me to now be prejudiced agasint all Pakistanis yes?


 
I'm not arguing just saying that I don't really care for the traveller types as thats been my only encounter with them, i'm sure they're ALL lovely, honest, eduacated, law abiding, upstanding citizens who never, EVER keep slaves.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> I'm not arguing just saying that I don't really care for the traveller types as thats been my only encounter with them, i'm sure they're ALL lovely, honest, eduacated, law abiding, upstanding citizens who never, EVER keep slaves.


Why do you need say ALL? Why not put ONLY in caps? And yes, you are arguing. Have the bottle to back up what you say.


----------



## Athos (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> I'm not arguing just saying that I don't really care for the traveller types as thats been my only encounter with them, i'm sure they're ALL lovely, honest, eduacated, law abiding, upstanding citizens who never, EVER keep slaves.


Just like every non-traveller, then.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> I'm not arguing just saying that I don't really care for the traveller types as thats been my only encounter with them, i'm sure they're ALL lovely, honest, eduacated, law abiding, upstanding citizens who never, EVER keep slaves.



What they are is 'people' - you know - human beings.

Of course many have disputed this.
Hitler, the daily mail and some of the twats on this thread for starters.


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Ah - the 'stealing your washing' urban myth.
> 
> I'm sure losing your bike upset you.
> Some Pakistaini kids nicked my car 20 years ago, they broke the headlights, dented the front and tried to set it alight. It proper fucked me off.
> So by your argument it would perfectly fine for me to now be prejudiced agasint all Pakistanis yes?


 
Um, you can't compare the loss of merely a 'car' with a 9 year's 1st bike!!!

I'm not prejudiced.....I just don't really care for them, thats all.  They hurt me bad, I can never forget.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Um, you can't compare the loss of merely a 'car' with a 9 year's 1st bike!!!
> 
> I'm not prejudiced.....I just don't really care for them, thats all.  They hurt me bad, I can never forget.


Empty space


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Empty space



Big careful, there'll be a rusty caravan, 17 feral children and 43 dogs on it before you know it!


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Big careful, there'll be a rusty caravan, 17 feral children and 43 dogs on it before you know it!


Don't "smiley" me you thick lying cunt.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 20, 2011)

stephj said:


> Tbf, not even the Daily Fail puts traveller in quotes.



I put "traveller" in quotes because it is a very loose term and includes a lot of more or less non  problematic groups.
"Travellers" can be long established in Britain Romanies.
Newly arrived Roma.
New Age Travellers
Fairground and Circus people.
Or the travelling bandits dumped on us from Eire because the government kicked them out.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> I'm not prejudiced.....I just don't really care for them, thats all. quote]



Re-read this bit and have try very hard to spot the problem


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Don't "smiley" me you thick lying cunt.



Now, now keep calm.........i'm no liar my friend.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I put "traveller" in quotes because it is a very loose term and includes a lot of more or less non problematic groups.
> "Travellers" can be long established in Britain Romanies.
> Newly arrived Roma.
> New Age Travellers
> ...


How many bandits dumped on you? How many kicked out (where? When?) You not in cornwall anymore? Us?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I put "traveller" in quotes because it is a very loose term and includes a lot of more or less non problematic groups.
> "Travellers" can be long established in Britain Romanies.
> Newly arrived Roma.
> New Age Travellers
> ...




That took you a long while to come up with something to try and cover your prejudices.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Now, now keep calm.........i'm no liar my friend.


You are.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

stephj said:


> That took you a long while to come up with something to try and cover your prejudices.


And even that was ripped off somewhere else.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I will alter that slightly for the purposes of clarification, have you ever had "travellers" illegally camped near you?


Still yes, years ago it was common and my nephew was saying earlier that they still come and pitch up in Longsight in Manchester quite often, Are you going to tell me what your point is?


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 20, 2011)

stephj said:


> That took you a long while to come up with something to try and cover your prejudices.



I am being very precise it has nothing to do with prejudice it is to do with experience. Most "travellers" are more or less non problematic.
One particular set of them are VERY problematic.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I am being very precise it has nothing to do with prejudice it is to do with experience. Most "travellers" are more or less non problematic.
> One particular set of them are VERY problematic.


Get on your harley and fuck off.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> I grew up in a very quiet 70's/80's mainly crime-free Mid-Wales, one summer some travellers, (I reckon about 10 or so caravans worth), rocked up to a field near my house, resulting in a spate of thefts, mainly clothes from washing lines........but, they nicked my white Raleigh flyer which I loved more than anything, I know the traveller kids nicked it because me & my mates sat on the fence next to their field and watched the kids playing on my(and others) bike. It was a painful sight.
> 
> For that reason I don't really care for travellers. They upset the 9 year old me a great deal.



By that reasoning I should have a massive hatred for white people but you know what I've managed to see past the racism I've been exposed to during my life and choose not to sink to that level. You should too you fucking twat.


----------



## Deareg (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> The "anti "traveller" wankers," are basing there comments on personal experience, not the Daily Mail.
> I certainly would not want any "travellers" camped near me ever again, and it isn't just based on one lot of "travellers."


I have had bad experiences with travellers. I have also been in the past beaten up by black kids, been beaten up at football matches and so on, if you had a bad experience with Asians or Blacks or gays or any other group would you hold the same bile and intolerance towards that entire group?


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 20, 2011)

When and where have these troublesome Irish Travellers parked up near you, Roctrevezel?


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> I'm not prejudiced.....



These words are always without fail uttered by racists. Fact.


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I have had bad experiences with travellers. I have also been in the past beaten up by black kids, been beaten up at football matches and so on, if you had a bad experience with Asians or Blacks or gays or any other group would you hold the same bile and intolerance towards that entire group?



I've also had negative experiences by minority groups as well as majority groups, 12 years living in london will give you that, however  nothing compares to the pain of having your bike stolen as a 9 year old and then watching the thieves gloatingly playing on my beloved raleigh flyer, that hurts, still.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> I've also had negative experiences by minority groups as well as majority groups, 12 years living in london will give you that, however nothing compares to the pain of having your bike stolen as a 9 year old and then watching the thieves gloatingly playing on my beloved raleigh flyer, that hurts, still.



Excuses.


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> These words are always without fail uttered by racists. Fact.



Dick.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Dick.



Racist.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 20, 2011)

A traveller took a swing at me with a hammer......whilst I was on acid and speed.

Do you hear me whinging like fuck?


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Racist.



Homophobe


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Homophobe



Racist


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> A traveller took a swing at me with a hammer......whilst I was on acid and speed.
> 
> Do you hear me whinging like fuck?


I would if the acid weren't upto much


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

BlackArab said:


> Racist


 

Grow up stop throwing about the same old response to people who have differing opinions to your own, lose the chip my friend and people may warm to you.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Grow up stop throwing about the same old response to people who have differing opinions to your own, lose the chip my friend and people may warm to you.



Quality! I've got the chip & should grow up while you're the racist twat who still has the hump about your kiddie bike. I hope people like you never warm to me, I'd need a shower.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

I think that basically means that Utopia has admitted his original posts followed by the 'I was so tewwibly hurt by those twavellers nicking my bike when I was 9 that it's affected me my whole life and i'll never twust them again' defense was frankly a bit shit.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> I've also had negative experiences by minority groups as well as majority groups, 12 years living in london will give you that, however nothing compares to the pain of having your bike stolen as a 9 year old and then watching the thieves gloatingly playing on my beloved raleigh flyer, that hurts, still.


are you serious? or trolling?
have you read your own posts?


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

ddraig said:


> are you serious? or trolling?
> have you read your own posts?



Of course i'm not serious  , I did have my bike nicked by traveller types when I was 9 that's completely true, me still being affected by that....well that's not really the case, I don't mind travellers at all really....could care either way TBH.  Amazed by how quick the race card gets whipped out, always the case though hey.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Um, you can't compare the loss of merely a 'car' with a 9 year's 1st bike!!!
> 
> I'm not prejudiced.....I just don't really care for them, thats all. They hurt me bad, I can never forget.



You've never been 'hurt bad' by anyone who lives in a house?


----------



## dylans (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Grow up stop throwing about the same old response to people who have differing opinions to your own, lose the chip my friend and people may warm to you.


Racist twats always say things like this too.


----------



## dylans (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> TBH. Amazed by how quick the race card gets whipped out, always the case though hey.



and this

It's like, "God, you can't even hate black people, Muslims, Asians, Jews,these days without some sensitive soul taking offence. It's pc gorn mad".


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Of course i'm not serious  , I did have my bike nicked by traveller types when I was 9 that's completely true, me still being affected by that....well that's not really the case, I don't mind travellers at all really....could care either way TBH. Amazed by how quick the race card gets whipped out, always the case though hey.



Sound the retreat! Fall back, fall back....


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 20, 2011)

dylans said:


> and this



I'm waiting for 'some of my best friends are black'.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

Has roctrevezel volunteered his tales yet at the hands of those nasty travellers? Or is he still writing them?


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## ddraig (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Of course i'm not serious  , I did have my bike nicked by traveller types when I was 9 that's completely true, me still being affected by that....well that's not really the case, I don't mind travellers at all really....could care either way TBH. Amazed by how quick the race card gets whipped out, always the case though hey.


well you're an unfunny knob then! hurhur


----------



## likesfish (Sep 20, 2011)

thing is travellers and anti social behavior very closly linked​http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-gang-suspected-half-caravan-thefts-UK.html​


----------



## dylans (Sep 20, 2011)

likesfish said:


> thing is travellers and anti social behavior very closly linked​http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-gang-suspected-half-caravan-thefts-UK.html​


Yeah good unbiased newspaper that. I found out that all single moms are benefit scrounging prostitutes in there too.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

likesfish said:


> thing is travellers and anti social behavior very closly linked​


Squaddies and anti social behaviour was very closed linked where I lived for a while.​


----------



## likesfish (Sep 20, 2011)

plenty of squaddies think 12 pints and fight is a good night out.
 they tend to get punished for it not that it makes much differnce

 most don't go whining its racist when banned from pubs and bars or entire towns actions have consequences.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

likesfish said:


> plenty of squaddies think 12 pints and fight is a good night out.
> they tend to get punished for it not that it makes much differnce
> 
> most don't go whining its racist when banned from pubs and bars or entire towns actions have consequences.


Most don't get the whole barracks being expelled do they?


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Um, you can't compare the loss of merely a 'car' with a 9 year's 1st bike!!!
> 
> I'm not prejudiced.....I just don't really care for them, thats all.  They hurt me bad, I can never forget.



All of them hurt you bad?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

likesfish said:


> plenty of squaddies think 12 pints and fight is a good night out.
> they tend to get punished for it not that it makes much differnce
> 
> most don't go whining its racist when banned from pubs and bars or entire towns actions have consequences.


What a a fick fuck you are, travelers are beyond the law? They don't get done? How come you've got a list of them getting done as evidence of their inherent criminality then?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

It's painful, it is really.


----------



## dylans (Sep 20, 2011)

likesfish said:


> plenty of squaddies think 12 pints and fight is a good night out.
> they tend to get punished for it not that it makes much differnce
> 
> most don't go whining its racist when banned from pubs and bars or entire towns actions have consequences.


DIdn't the people in your Dailyhate article end up in prison? Hardly an example of them getting away with anything is it?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

They're are both beyond the law and caught by it over and over.


----------



## dylans (Sep 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> They're are both beyond the law and caught by it over and over.


You can tell they are above the law just by looking at the number of them in prison


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> I've also had negative experiences by minority groups as well as majority groups, 12 years living in london will give you that, however  nothing compares to the pain of having your bike stolen as a 9 year old and then watching the thieves gloatingly playing on my beloved raleigh flyer, that hurts, still.



Get over it already!


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Get over it already!


He is, he make his serious prejudice look less damaging by relating it to good stuff - our lovely memories. All people are filth.


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Get over it already!


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> They're are both beyond the law and caught by it over and over.



Just like Immigrants. They all steal our jobs and are dole scroungers too. At the same time.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 20, 2011)

some squaddies behave badly get other squaddies banned from pubs.
 travellers do the same thing then claim its racist.
  Its not racist if you've already had a bad experience with one group why would you give the next group benefit of the doubt


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 20, 2011)

likesfish said:


> some squaddies behave badly get other squaddies banned from pubs.
> travellers do the same thing then claim its racist.
> Its not racist if you've already had a bad experience with one group why would you give the next group benefit of the doubt


That's kind of the definition of racist, you dumb fuck.


----------



## Citizen66 (Sep 20, 2011)

likesfish said:


> Its not racist if you've already had a bad experience with one group why would you give the next group benefit of the doubt



So if one group of lads misbehave you ban all groups of lads?

What about badly behaved bricklayers? Ban all construction workers or just brick layers?


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 20, 2011)

likesfish said:


> thing is travellers and anti social behavior very closly linked​http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...er-gang-suspected-half-caravan-thefts-UK.html​


What the Mail fails to mention is that the vast majority of the thefts were from other Travellers.

e2a although the photos of Royal Doulton and gold boxing gloves are a bit of a give away


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Get on your harley and fuck off.



I don't have a Harley, they are too expensive and too unreliable.


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

Oh dear, this thread seems to have turned terribly angry.

So, back to the point of the thread - These traveller types, all this fuss about them being evicted.....i've an easy solution, and a genuine question, why don't they simply live up to their name and 'travel' away, couldn't they just do that?


----------



## likesfish (Sep 20, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> So if one group of lads misbehave you ban all groups of lads?
> 
> What about badly behaved bricklayers? Ban all construction workers or just brick layers?


been in plenty of clubs that ban all groups of lads mind you bouncers didn't twig on if you arrived in twos also been in clubs that banned squaddies and channel tunnel workers that must have been everybody in folkstone with a job then


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> So, back to the point of the thread - These traveller types, all this fuss about them being evicted.....i've an easy solution, and a genuine question, why don't they simply live up to their name and 'travel' away, couldn't they just do that?


You could always read the 101 I very kindly wrote yesterday, given that you seem to be incapable of reading the thread or informing yourself of some of the issues.


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> What the Mail fails to mention is that the vast majority of the thefts were from other Travellers.



So that makes it ok then?


----------



## ddraig (Sep 20, 2011)

likesfish said:


> some squaddies behave badly get other squaddies banned from pubs.
> travellers do the same thing then claim its racist.
> Its not racist if you've already had a bad experience with one group why would you give the next group benefit of the doubt


 oh suffering fuck! oh dear, just had to explain to an astounded colleague why i couldn't contain my laugh at your huge bullshit and illustrative post!


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 20, 2011)

N


Utopia said:


> So that makes it ok then?


No far from it, just pointing out (again) that other Travellers are as likely, or more likely, to be the victims of crime and anti-social behaviour from Travellers, but this is rarely pointed out by the media who would rather present it as a 'them and us' situation. That particular family caused people I know a lot of grief and heartache and they were upset that their subsequent arrest and imprisonment wasused as another stick to beat ALL Travellers.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Oh dear, this thread seems to have turned terribly angry.
> 
> So, back to the point of the thread - These traveller types, all this fuss about them being evicted.....i've an easy solution, and a genuine question, why don't they simply live up to their name and 'travel' away, couldn't they just do that?


i don't understand why you are not "on the stage"


----------



## Deareg (Sep 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> They're are both beyond the law and caught by it over and over.


It's like immigrants, they only come here to sign on the dole and they also steal all our jobs.


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

stephj said:


> You could always read the 101 I very kindly wrote yesterday, given that you seem to be incapable of reading the thread or informing yourself of some of the issues.



Ah cool, thanks for that.

So they shouldn't technically be called travellers anymore then really should they, maybe some sort of rebranding is required?, any suggestions on new names for the travellers who choose to no longer travel?

Hmmmm..........


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 20, 2011)

Utopia said:


> Ah cool, thanks for that.
> 
> So they shouldn't technically be called travellers anymore then really should they, maybe some sort of rebranding is required?, any suggestions on new names for the travellers who choose to no longer travel?



Interesting you should use the phrase 'choose to no longer travel'.

If being hounded from county to county by the police and authorities, farmers blocking off entrances to fields, being moved on from layby's, subject to abuse from locals and disproportionate use of the Public Order Act 1986 and Criminal Justice Act 1994 doesn't make it difficult enough.


----------



## Utopia (Sep 20, 2011)

Someones just sent me a message saying they saw one of the Dale Farm kids on a Raleigh Flyer, can anyone else confirm this?


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 20, 2011)

All bikes that have ever been stolen in the UK end up at Dale Farm. This fact is well known to the police, but they are too afraid of human rights to ask for them back  It is possible that everything else that has ever been stolen is stashed in a caravan on plot 9.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 20, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> All bikes that have ever been stolen in the UK end up at Dale Farm. This fact is well known to the police, but they are too afraid of human rights to ask for them back  It is possible that everything else that has ever been stolen is stashed in a caravan on plot 9.



They'll probably find Shergar and Lord Lucan there


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 20, 2011)

this thread may be giving lulz to dickheads....
n annoying activists...
I would suggest people get down there and find out the craic themselves, rather than relying on hearsay BS...


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 20, 2011)

just had to defriend someone on facefuck for some anti-traveller nonsense. this case seems to be bringing a lot of bigots out of the woodwork


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 20, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> just had to defriend someone on facefuck for some anti-traveller nonsense. this case seems to be bringing a lot of bigots out of the woodwork



Just did a similair thing on twitter.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I don't have a Harley, they are too expensive and too unreliable.


Yes you do.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yes you do.



No I don't I would not have one as a gift.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 20, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> No I don't I would not have one as a gift.


Yes you do and yes you did.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 20, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Yes you do and yes you did.



You must be mistaking me for someone else. I have never owned a Harley, nor would I.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 20, 2011)

did you get it for being a snitch?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 20, 2011)

It would only get nicked by travellers anyway.


----------



## sunny jim (Sep 20, 2011)

dylans said:


> 3 things.
> First so what? If the land is theirs and if it is legally bought why shouldn't they build their homes on it? The likes of Basildon Council have been quite happy to grant planning permission to build on greenbelt land when it suits them. They recently granted permission for construction of a waste recycling plant http://www.basildonrecorder.co.uk/news/9207022.Plans_for_expansion_at_area_waste_depot/?ref=rss
> and in 2010 they sold 172 acres of greenbelt land to the housing firm Barrat Homes.
> http://www.basildonrecorder.co.uk/archive/2010/12/17/Thurrock News (thurrock_news)/8744777.Protest_group_show_dismay_at_council_offices_over_greenbelt_development_plans/
> ...



Spot on Dylans. Ive just got back from there and the travellers were the most friendly, salt of the earth people Ive met in a long time. Apart from being a former scrap yard, it was also a council car pound and it was the council who put down loads of hardcore, making trackways and also putting up street lamps, so it hasnt been a "English meadow" for about 40 years.


----------



## sunny jim (Sep 20, 2011)

AKA pseudonym said:


> this thread may be giving lulz to dickheads....
> n annoying activists...
> I would suggest people get down there and find out the craic themselves, rather than relying on hearsay BS...



^^This


----------



## The Black Hand (Sep 20, 2011)

Good article here; http://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/content/view/full/109745?


----------



## ddraig (Sep 20, 2011)

indy blog with great predictable comments that could've been written by some here!
http://blogs.independent.co.uk/2011/09/19/can-we-rationalise-the-dale-farm-eviction/


----------



## Stoat Boy (Sep 21, 2011)

So do you all think that anybody should be able to buy a piece of land and do what they want with it ? Because from what I am hearing in the property business there are a lot of people rooting for the travellers to win this case because it will lead to a general loosening up of the planning permission requirements which would suit a lot of people whom I am sure the majority of you would not see eye to eye with. I reckon that this is definitely a case of being careful of what you wish for.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

The point <-----------------> Stoatie.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 21, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> So do you all think that anybody should be able to buy a piece of land and do what they want with it ? *Because from what I am hearing in the property business* there are a lot of people rooting for the travellers to win this case because it will lead to a general loosening up of the planning permission requirements which would suit a lot of people whom I am sure the majority of you would not see eye to eye with. I reckon that this is definitely a case of being careful of what you wish for.



What I can hear is the sound of the bottom of the barrel marked 'desperate excuses for bigotry' being scraped...and scraped hard. Developers aren't looking at the outcome of Dale Farm; they have their eyes on the much bigger prize of the government's planning review.

Louis MacNeice


----------



## Stoat Boy (Sep 21, 2011)

Louis MacNeice said:


> What I can hear is the sound of the bottom of the barrel marked 'desperate excuses for bigotry' being scraped...and scraped hard. Developers aren't looking at the outcome of Dale Farm; they have their eyes on the much bigger prize of the government's planning review.
> 
> Louis MacNeice



Which will be influenced by what happens here. Dont underestimate this and whilst you lefties want to get your knickers in a twist about poor put upon 'Travellers', most of whom would not if push come to shove piss on you (or me for that matter) if we were on fire there are bigger issues at stake here in terms of green belt countryside and planning permission.

You need to remember that in the S.E of England there is a real problem with a shortage of land to build upon and anything that puts a crack in the regulations concerning this is of massive interest and potential impact.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

Funny enough, some of us don't think in such negative and skewed ways that you do Stoatie. Besides, I've been involved in supporting travellers in the past and I've been involved in green issues/opposing planning too in others. So, give your tiresome 'divisive' bullshit a rest.

If there are some property/business people looking to exploit situations like Dale Farm for their own ends, well all that does is already cement them in my mind as the cunts they are.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 21, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> Which will be influenced by what happens here. Dont underestimate this and whilst you lefties want to get your knickers in a twist about poor put upon 'Travellers', *most of whom would not if push come to shove piss on you (or me for that matter) if we were on fire* there are bigger issues at stake here in terms of green belt countryside and planning permission.
> 
> You need to remember that in the S.E of England there is a real problem with a shortage of land to build upon and anything that puts a crack in the regulations concerning this is of massive interest and potential impact.



The hate filled wail of the bigot...hotching with generalisation, ignorance, fear and disgust; what a useless, anti-social and inhuman way to carry on.

Louis MacNeice


----------



## friedaweed (Sep 21, 2011)

dylans said:


> 3 things.
> First so what? If the land is theirs and if it is legally bought why shouldn't they build their homes on it? The likes of Basildon Council have been quite happy to grant planning permission to build on greenbelt land when it suits them. They recently granted permission for construction of a waste recycling plant http://www.basildonrecorder.co.uk/news/9207022.Plans_for_expansion_at_area_waste_depot/?ref=rss
> and in 2010 they sold 172 acres of greenbelt land to the housing firm Barrat Homes.
> http://www.basildonrecorder.co.uk/archive/2010/12/17/Thurrock News (thurrock_news)/8744777.Protest_group_show_dismay_at_council_offices_over_greenbelt_development_plans/
> ...



Well fucking said


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Sep 21, 2011)

stephj said:


> 1) Travelling is part of their way of life. They were really happy with this but the reason why they don't travel the road anymore is because successive governments and legislation have effectively outlawed it



Which legislation?  Sorry if this has already been covered elsewhere - I admit I haven't read all the thread.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Which legislation? Sorry if this has already been covered elsewhere - I admit I haven't read all the thread.



So fucking read it.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Sep 21, 2011)

stephj said:


> So fucking read it.



Thanks for your help.

I'm at work at the moment.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2011)

Careful now lizzy. Don't get your inventions mixed up.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Thanks for your help.
> 
> I'm at work at the moment.



So am I, your point?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Sep 21, 2011)

stephj said:


> So am I, your point?



I haven't got time to read through 26 pages of stuff.

Never mind.  Perhaps there is no legislation.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Never mind. Perhaps there is no legislation.



That would serve your prejudice would it?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

God, some right fucking divs on here atm, who make grand statements and then don't even do the fucking reading/research, and on top of that want others to do the work for them.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Sep 21, 2011)

stephj said:


> God, some right fucking divs on here atm, who make grand statements and then don't even do the fucking reading/research.



if you mean me, perhaps you could tell me which grand statement I have made?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

See, in the time you've been here, you could have done some research.

"Never mind. Perhaps there is no legislation."

We worked you out after the strike thread.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 21, 2011)

Stoat Boy said:


> So do you all think that anybody should be able to buy a piece of land and do what they want with it ? Because from what I am hearing in the property business there are a lot of people rooting for the travellers to win this case because it will lead to a general loosening up of the planning permission requirements which would suit a lot of people whom I am sure the majority of you would not see eye to eye with. I reckon that this is definitely a case of being careful of what you wish for.



I for one would welcome more house-building at the moment and would also like to see the travellers win.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

Come on liar Lizzie, it's mentioned on only page 2 of the thread.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Sep 21, 2011)

stephj said:


> See, in the time you've been here, you could have done some research.
> 
> "Never mind. Perhaps there is no legislation."
> 
> We worked you out after the strike thread.



Are you going to tell me which "grand statement" I made?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Never mind. Perhaps there is no legislation.





stephj said:


> Come on liar Lizzie, it's mentioned on only page 2 of the thread.



.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2011)

Interesting re-reading the first few pages to see how many posters i normally think of as half decent have so unknowingly internalised racist discourses assumptions and prejudices.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Sep 21, 2011)

"Never mind. Perhaps there is no legislation"  is hardly a grand statement.  I'd politely asked you "What legislation?" and received a snooty rude response from you.​


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:


> "Never mind. Perhaps there is no legislation" is hardly a grand statement. I'd politely asked you "What legislation?" and received a snooty rude response from you.​


you're right it's more petty than grand.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

32 minutes...

You'd already made a presumption that there was no legislation didn't you? Why is that?


----------



## dylans (Sep 21, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Which legislation? Sorry if this has already been covered elsewhere - I admit I haven't read all the thread.


There are numerous acts of legislation. Thatcher amended the 1968 caravan act which obliged local councils to provide travellers sites in the 1980s. She also extended powers to local authorities to evict travellers and abolished the statutory fund for travellers sites.Together this added up to removing the obligations of local authorities to build sites and at the same time strengthening their ability to close down sites.

Also the 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act also contains provisions making the stationing of vehicles on highways, common land or unoccupied land a criminal offence.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Sep 21, 2011)

stephj said:


> 32 minutes...
> 
> You'd already made a presumption that there was no legislation didn't you? Why is that?



I didn't.  I asked you politely what legislation there was.

Your rude and dismissive response led me to wonder if there actually was any legislation.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Sep 21, 2011)

dylans said:


> There are numerous acts of legislation. Thatcher amended the 1968 caravan act which obliged local councils to provide travellers sites in the 1980s. She also extended powers to local authorities to evict travellers and abolished the Together this added up to removing the obligations of local authorities to build sites and at the same time strengthening their ability to close down sites.
> 
> Also the 1994 Criminal Justice and Public Order Act also contains provisions making the stationing of vehicles on highways, common land or unoccupied land a criminal offence.



Thanks.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

I was hoping ElizabethofYork was going to make the effort herself tbh Dylans but anyways!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2011)

stephj said:


> 32 minutes...
> 
> You'd already made a presumption that there was no legislation didn't you? Why is that?


because she administers an mba course and knows about these things


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2011)

Or works in a cafe and knows these things.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

The crime map for the area is interesting, I wonder what the crime rate was before the travellers moved in:-
http://www.police.uk/
http://46.137.116.39/crime/?q=Crays Hill, Billericay, Essex CM11 2YH, UK


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> The crime map for the area is interesting, I wonder what the crime rate was before the travellers moved in:-
> http://www.police.uk/
> http://46.137.116.39/crime/?q=Crays Hill, Billericay, Essex CM11 2YH, UK


Why don't you find out rather than implying something?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> The crime map for the area is interesting, I wonder what the crime rate was before the travellers moved in:-
> http://www.police.uk/
> http://46.137.116.39/crime/?q=Crays Hill, Billericay, Essex CM11 2YH, UK


why don't you email the local constabulary or police authority you lazy twat


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Sep 21, 2011)

stephj said:


> I was hoping ElizabethofYork was going to make the effort herself tbh Dylans but anyways!



Why?  If someone knows something, why shouldn't they pass on the information?  Why are you so smug and self-righteous?


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Why don't you find out rather than implying something?



I was merely wondering. The crime map stats don't go back far enough.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2011)

I wonder what the cancer rate was in the area before the travelers moved in?


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> why don't you email the local constabulary or police authority you lazy twat



They are somewhat busy at the moment.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> I was merely wondering. The crime map stats don't go back far enough.


No you wasn't.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:
			
		

> "Never mind. Perhaps there is no legislation" is hardly a grand statement. I'd politely asked you "What legislation?" and received a snooty rude response from you.



I take people as I find them. Unfortunately, I've not found you in a particularly positive light so far.


ElizabethofYork said:


> Why? If someone knows something, why shouldn't they pass on the information? Why are you so smug and self-righteous?



Strikes thread.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> They are somewhat busy at the moment.


In that case go ahead and imply something nasty.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

You're so "far right" butchers!


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> No you wasn't.



Yes I was. I check the crime map stats for where I live every month and just typed in the post code for the Dale Farm area out of interest.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Thanks.



Now what...

Despite being busy at work you really wanted to know about the legislation so much that we spent 30 minutes bickering when you could have found it quicker from reading the first few pages of the thread.

So, what's your thoughts on the situation that travellers face? the legislation that has made it difficult for them?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> In that case go ahead and imply something nasty.



He already has implied it...

This question does it...



> The crime map for the area is interesting, I wonder what the crime rate was before the travellers moved in:-



He was just _wondering_....  I mean who just wonders these things unless they are anti-traveller and believe that the crime rate will definately be increased if there are any around?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Yes I was. *I check the crime map stats for where I live every month* and just typed in the post code for the Dale Farm area out of interest.



Wow! Are you really that paranoid?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> They are somewhat busy at the moment.


they're not going to fucking get back to you by return you thick fuck. put in an foi request and you'll hear in about a month. they should be less busy by then.


----------



## peterkro (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> http://46.137.116.39/crime/?q=Crays Hill, Billericay, Essex CM11 2YH, UK


That link is for Wiltshire?


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

peterkro said:


> That link is for Wiltshire?



You need to make sure the link isn't truncated.

Although quite what its really trying to prove, as there a lot of variables that statistics don't account for.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> The crime map for the area is interesting, I wonder what the crime rate was before the travellers moved in:-
> http://www.police.uk/
> http://46.137.116.39/crime/?q=Crays Hill, Billericay, Essex CM11 2YH, UK



Your link is broken, the correct one is here:
http://46.137.116.39/crime/?q=Crays Hill, Billericay, Essex CM11 2YH, UK#crimetypes

Total of 81 crimes, but once you deduct both those around the Festival Way Leisure Centre (43) and the Gardiners Link Retail/McDonalds Park (11), most of which are more than are likely the local youth playing-up, which may or may not include some travellers, it seems fairly low to me.

So, your point is?

ETA: In fact the total is lower than my village, and we don't have any travellers, leisure centre nor retail park.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Wow! Are you really that paranoid?



Not paranoid, at all. Just for information purposes.( and to see if there has been any crime.)


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

Just for information purposes, after already having shown your colours


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Not paranoid, at all. Just for information purposes.( and to see if there has been any crime.)



What information purposes? What do you use the information for?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2011)

And make it snappy rocky, you've been outed elsewhere.


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 21, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Which legislation?  Sorry if this has already been covered elsewhere - I admit I haven't read all the thread.


1994 Criminal Justice Bill


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> What information purposes? What do you use the information for?



Just out of interest.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Not paranoid, at all. Just for information purposes.( and to see if there has been any crime.)


you could of course read the local papers but that might mean having to part with money


----------



## dylans (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Just out of interest.



Oh do fuck off


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> you could of course read the local papers but that might mean having to part with money



Not all crime is reported on the local newspapers. It is reported to the parish council but there is a long time lag before the minutes of meeting get posted.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Just out of interest.



An interest in what?


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> An interest in what?



If there has been any crime.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> If there has been any crime.



Why is it important for you to know?


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Why is it important for you to know?



It is important for anyone to know what crime, (if any) is happening in  their area, or before you know crime has taken the place over.


----------



## Glitter (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> If there has been any crime.


What do you do when there has?


----------



## Glitter (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> It is important for anyone to know what crime, (if any) is happening in  their area, or before you know crime has taken the place over.



How does that work then?


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

Glitter said:


> What do you do when there has?



Depends what the crime is, (if there has been any.)


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> It is important for anyone to know what crime, (if any) is happening in their area, or before you know crime has taken the place over.



Why is it *important*? For example: If you find out that crimes have been commited, what do/can you do to stop crime '_taking over the place'_?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2011)

Glitter said:


> What do you do when there has?


He finds someone who he thinks fits the picture then using devious means grasses them up. Or he kidnaps them, bungs them on a bus then drives dangerously out into the country.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

Glitter said:


> How does that work then?



All honest people have to do for evil to prevail is nothing.


----------



## dylans (Sep 21, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> 1994 Criminal Justice Bill



Yup.

Things are going to get worse too. Already the coalition govt have cut all funding and stopped all bids to develop new travellers sites or refurbish existing ones and the likes of Pickles wants to amend the CJPO bill to make trespass a criminal rather than civil offence


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Why is it *important*? For example: If you find out that crimes have been commited, what do/can you do to stop crime '_taking over the place'_?



Keep your eyes and ears open and report anything/anyone suspicious.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> All honest people have to do for evil to prevail is nothing.



So what do you do then?


----------



## peterkro (Sep 21, 2011)

The broken link takes you to stats for The Crays Melksham Wiltshire where crime seems somewhat higher than the correct link,Crays Hill Billericay Essex.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Keep your eyes and ears open and report anything/anyone suspicious.



Oh so you *report* people, based on the fact *you see them* as suspicious, because you have an awareness of crimes being commited in your local area?


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

peterkro said:


> The broken link takes you to stats for The Crays Melksham Wiltshire where crime seems somewhat higher than the correct link,Crays Hill Billericay Essex.


Not if you enter the correct post code.


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Oh so you report people, based on the fact you see them as suspicious, because you have an awareness of crimes being commited in your local area?



Works most of the time. There has not been any crime for months now.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> He finds someone who he thinks fits the picture then using devious means grasses them up. Or he kidnaps them, bungs them on a bus then drives dangerously out into the country.



Or just shoots the boat happy bastards.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 21, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> And make it snappy rocky, you've been outed elsewhere.


so clear and obvious when you know!


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> All honest people have to do for evil to prevail is nothing.


 
But you're a self-confessed 'devious underhanded bastard'; it's a characterisation worth keeping in mind when reading all your contributions.

Louis MacNeice


----------



## ddraig (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Works most of the time. There has not been any crime for months now.


got the stats to back that up jugchops?
i spose if you grass everyone up then there will be eh!
"how I and my trusty motorcycle brought calm to Helston Hell"


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Works most of the time. There has not been any crime for months now.


Not what the police say. Are they lying?


----------



## peterkro (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> Not if you enter the correct post code.


You posted the link.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 21, 2011)

Louis MacNeice said:


> But you're a self-confessed 'devious underhanded bastard'; it's a characterisation worth keeping in mind when reading all your contributions.
> 
> Louis MacNeice


Indeed. worth bearing in mind what his ban was for as well. If that's the way he works then he's a liability.


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 21, 2011)

stephj said:


> Despite being busy at work you really wanted to know about the legislation so much that we spent 30 minutes bickering when you could have found it quicker from reading the first few pages of the thread.
> 
> So, what's your thoughts on the situation that travellers face? the legislation that has made it difficult for them?



Actually, don't worry about it ElizabethofYork. I see you already posted back on page 6 and you could only come up with this witty little nugget and not offer much else to the discussion.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 21, 2011)

could be an interesting angle developing.... some of the residents have been paying council tax from their sites... which may prove a legal nightmare hopefully....
btw: Aint it funny how the media are portraying the 'leaders'  what leaders... its well run democratically.... maybe too many 'meetings' for my liking but there aint no 'leaders'
btw2: would the trolls on this thread kindly feck off under the bridges they came from.... we wont evict you from there....


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> All honest people have to do for evil to prevail is nothing.



now you are getting the point!
Dale farm is fighting evil..... what you doing?


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> The crime map for the area is interesting, *I wonder* what the crime rate was before the travellers moved in:-
> http://www.police.uk/
> http://46.137.116.39/crime/?q=Crays Hill, Billericay, Essex CM11 2YH, UK









Louis MacNeice


----------



## Glitter (Sep 21, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> All honest people have to do for evil to prevail is nothing.


Ah, I see.

I didn't realise you knowing about crime that's occurred prevented it from having happened. The police should recruit you!


----------



## ddraig (Sep 21, 2011)

he won't be back for a few pages now
then will not respond to the points raised
just start "wondering" again and implying spurious or non existant stats
MO init


----------



## roctrevezel (Sep 21, 2011)

Glitter said:


> Ah, I see.
> 
> I didn't realise you knowing about crime that's occurred prevented it from having happened. The police should recruit you!



Knowing about a crime may well prevent other crimes from happening. (Especially if a enquiry follow up to something on the crime map gives more specific details.)


----------



## Glitter (Sep 21, 2011)

Again, how does that work then?


----------



## ddraig (Sep 21, 2011)

by grassing up/lying about everyone under 60 in a 5 mile radius

please let's ignore it now or it will succeed in wrecking this thread


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 21, 2011)

> The Homes and Communities Agency (HCA) today [19/11] said it would continue to offer ‘land and investment’ to resettle Dale Farm residents – but that it could only find a solution with the help of Basildon Council. On the day that hundreds of Traveller families were due to be evicted from the Crays Lane site, the HCA confirmed that it owned ‘extensive’ land within the Basildon district and that its offer of help remained on the table if the council wished to continue negotiations.
> 
> 
> The HCA said it had been ‘working for two years’ to help find suitable alternative accommodation in the area for the Travellers but the council’s decision to withdraw from a working group in October 2010 was a key ‘turning point’.


----------



## longdog (Sep 21, 2011)




----------



## nino_savatte (Sep 21, 2011)

il_bastardo said:


> Interesting. Thanks Nino. Sounds a lot like today.
> _It was afterwards claimied that this policy of repression was a brilliant success; that labourers ceased to riot and became docile, eager to get and to keep their jobs, and that pauperism steadily diminished from decade to decade._
> 
> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/janusg/landls.htm


Actually, the labourers were brutalised in the factories and they found their culture under systematic assault from the ruling classes. Fairs and feast days were gradually abolished and were substituted with [boring] 'national ' holidays. There has always been a deep-seated suspicion and resentment of certain forms of popular entertainment on the part of the ruling class.


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 21, 2011)

I am now trying to explain to someone why saying "They're all thieves and pikeys" and "They're like locusts but that's unfair to locusts" is a teensy bit prejudiced.  I'm not sure why but they don't seem to get it.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 21, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> I am now trying to explain to someone why saying "They're all thieves and pikeys" and "They're like locusts but that's unfair to locusts" is a teensy bit prejudiced. I'm not sure why but they don't seem to get it.



Aquaint them with the activites of their ideological bedfellows?





(czech roma victims of the holocaust)


----------



## dylanredefined (Sep 21, 2011)

Probably the sort that might see that as a good result Unfortunatly .
So when dale farm is cleared at considerable cost and with a few heads broken. What happens to it?


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 22, 2011)

is it Friday yet?


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 22, 2011)

Gunneradt is having trouble with the days of the week. Can anyone help him out?


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Sep 22, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> Gunneradt is having trouble with the days of the week. Can anyone help him out?



Perhaps he needs one of these






Louis MacNeice


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Sep 22, 2011)

*Be ready in case the High Court fails the Travellers on Friday!*

*Location: High Court on the Strand (WC2A 2L*
*Time: Friday, 23 September 2011 11:30*

FB Link 
Although Dale Farm residents won an injunction in the High Court, this only postpones the eviction until Friday. At 11.30am the court will consider the technical legality of the notices which the council issued. Depending on the outcome of this hearing, the eviction may be reactivated immediately on Friday afternoon. 

 We're here in solidarity with the residents for as long as they want us to support them. The residents have mad...e it clear to us that, should the eviction be reinstated, they want our strong and continued support to resist it.

 This means we need to be prepared to show a very strong presence on Friday should the hearing permit the council to restart eviction proceedings. Supporters will need to be on alert and ready to come down to the site immediately on Friday, given a negative outcome. 

 Come to the High Court on the Strand (WC2A 2LL) to show your solidarity with the Dale Farm residents at 11.30 on Friday or come to the site.

 Get in touch with savedalefarm@gmail.com if you want to find out how to get involved in the campaign. Dale Farm is easy to get to from London and is a very special place. 

 Visit http://dalefarm.wordpress.com/contact for info on how to get here.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 23, 2011)

no word on the judgement yet?

this from the twitter feed on the blog so far



> Court hearresidents at #dalefarm approve of the supporters 2 minutes ago
> Lawyer for #basildoncouncil describes supporters as 'trespassers' completely out of touch with reality #dalefarm 3 minutes ago
> Judge hears #basildoncouncil trying to stifle freedom of protest at #dalefarm 14 minutes ago
> Judge hears of #basildoncouncil failure to file in time for #dalefarm lawyers to read it.Another balls up for Tony Ball 15 minutes ago
> Judge - eviction must cause the minimum of alarm and distress to children and others #dalefarm 19 minutes ago


----------



## stethoscope (Sep 23, 2011)

Apparently because the hearing is considering on a plot by plot basis, it could take some time.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 23, 2011)

ok thanks Steph
and fair play
so it should


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 23, 2011)

Eviction delayed again, until at least after the weekend. Judge critical of the bailiffs approach, describing it as 'willy nilly'. Two additional judicial reviews to be heard first.


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 23, 2011)

It's quite amusing how fucking ruddy chopped the council is behaving.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 23, 2011)

Have you heard the prat from basildon council talking to the press?


----------



## DrRingDing (Sep 23, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Have you heard the prat from basildon council talking to the press?



Yep, apparently this is still the 1970s.


----------



## BlackArab (Sep 23, 2011)

Are the people with their arms in concrete still doing it or are they breaking and re-setting it with each extension?


----------



## ddraig (Sep 23, 2011)

DrRingDing said:


> It's quite amusing how fucking ruddy chopped the council is behaving.


well shoddy! 


DotCommunist said:


> Have you heard the prat from basildon council talking to the press?


funny if it wasn't so tragic!


----------



## ddraig (Sep 26, 2011)

local residents are "goin on a march!" and threatening to withold council tax! lol
as well as putting in planning apps for their gardens for their kids as "that's what travellers do!"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15052369


> "We have just about had enough of this now," she said.
> "We can march. We are going to look into withholding our rates and putting in our own planning applications to build things in our back gardens for our children to live in - all the sort of things the travellers want to do."


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2011)

if you don't pay your council tax they lock you up.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 26, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> if you don't pay your council tax they lock you up.



To see that happen would certainly give me a warm feeling inside.


----------



## ExtraRefined (Sep 26, 2011)

> putting in our own planning applications



This is where they're going wrong, you've got to just do it and then rally Guardian readers and anarkids to defend you when they send the bailiffs in.

The whole affair is a bit weird, usually the planning law ignoring lot are freeman-of-the-land types and get short shrift around here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-tyne-13765736

How poor and oppressed do you have to be before you're allowed to ignore planning permission?


----------



## Zabo (Sep 26, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Have you heard the prat from basildon council talking to the press?



No but I did hear a fukwit from the support group on Radio 5's Richard Bacon Show refer to it as "Ethnic Cleansing"


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2011)

Zabo said:


> No but I did hear a fukwit from the support group on Radio 5's Richard Bacon Show refer to it as "Ethnic Cleansing"



looks like they aren't the only ones considering it so:

http://uk.ibtimes.com/articles/2161...ansing-or-just-planning-permission-issues.htm


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 26, 2011)

ExtraRefined said:


> How poor and oppressed do you have to be before you're allowed to ignore planning permission?



Maybe if 90% of planning applications by gypsies were not refused then they would not need to resort to such things. The average refusal rate for the general population is 30% by the way.

Of course it's all about enforcing the law 'equally' to everyone isn't it?


----------



## Giles (Sep 26, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Maybe if 90% of planning applications by gypsies were not refused then they would not need to resort to such things. The average refusal rate for the general population is 30% by the way.
> 
> Of course it's all about enforcing the law 'equally' to everyone isn't it?



This statistic is disingenuous, and meaningless.

Most planning apps in general are for trivial & non-controversial things, like building a small extension, changing the design of a shopfront, putting in roof windows, any and every tiny change to listed buildings and in conservation areas, etc. These are generally going to be approved.

The travellers are usually applying to turn farmland into building land in areas where there is a policy against allowing this. Thus, they are going to be refused.

If anyone else tried to buy a field in a "green belt" area, and then applied to build a house on it, or actually did build a house on it and then retrospectively tried to legalise what they had done, then they would be turned down as well.

Giles..


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 26, 2011)

It's not farmland.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 26, 2011)

Giles said:


> The travellers are usually applying to turn farmland into building land in areas where there is a policy against allowing this.
> Giles..



Source?


----------



## N_igma (Sep 26, 2011)

Iirc correctly it was a scrapyard that they turned into homes. Good luck trying to graze some cows on that.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 26, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> It's not farmland.



True in respect of the Dale Farm, but that doesn't in anyway change the point that Giles was making.

Most non-traveller planning applications tend to concern fairly minor matters, hence they tend to get approved.


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 26, 2011)

Anyone think this may be related?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/ha...s-to-build-thousands-of-green-belt-homes.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-to-keep-developers-off-farmland-2360904.html


----------



## ddraig (Sep 26, 2011)

tweet saying "today's #dalefarm judgement - some plots not to be cleared other plots no caravans to be removed #ballsup"

there is a pdf as well but can't copy link from phone


----------



## Giles (Sep 26, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> It's not farmland.



Sorry, my mistake.

But it IS designated as part of a green belt area. And therefore it is NOT building land, which is what I was saying.

Giles..


----------



## ddraig (Sep 26, 2011)

the council hardcored over it themselves then lied!

oh and Giles, please buy a field and try and build on it/get planning permission.
not that you will of course but it'd be good to see how you get on


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 26, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> True in respect of the Dale Farm, but that doesn't in anyway change the point that Giles was making.
> 
> Most non-traveller planning applications tend to concern fairly minor matters, hence they tend to get approved.



Source? Again.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 26, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> True in respect of the Dale Farm, but that doesn't in anyway change the point that Giles was making.
> 
> Most non-traveller planning applications tend to concern fairly minor matters, hence they tend to get approved.


like tesco and the like?
i see plenty of 'retrospective' planning applications for massive extensions and even where applicants have turned sheds into places to inhabit


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 26, 2011)

ddraig said:


> the council hardcored over it themselves then lied!



Basildon District Council has denied dumping hardcore on the site, which I suspect is true, because the claim was that the hardcore came from road-works, which Basildon District Council would not have any involvement with - that would have been down to Essex County Council.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 26, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Source? Again.





ddraig said:


> like tesco and the like?



Yo! Two thick cunts post in a row! 

Which part of 'most', are you two having trouble with understanding?

You seriously think applications from the likes of Tesco are greater than those from people just looking to add an extension, etc., to their homes?

FFS - go look on your local council websites, you pair of fucking muppets.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 26, 2011)

no need to be a cunt about it
i didn't say that did i and thought you'd have the nous to work out that i meant that tesco etc do dodgy applications and just use their legal might afterwards. no comparison to people adding an extension.

what i did say, as i do look on my council website, that there are a lot of retrospective planning applications and chancers who people don't bat an eyelid about as they are seen as 'normal' people.

so, apology or fuck right off, frankly


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 26, 2011)

OK fuck it, I found a source of information myself.

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/statistics/pdf/1876333.pdf



> In the year ending December 2010, authorities determined 41 major applications for Gypsy and
> Traveller pitches. 61 per cent of the major applications were granted... Also, authorities determined 250 minor applications on Gypsy and
> Traveller pitches. 53 per cent of the minor applications were granted...



So the 90% figure I quoted earlier seems to be bollocks (my bad, I should have found more reliable sources). The picture still is not great though is it. From the same document quoted above we get;



> In the year ending December 2010, authorities granted 79 per cent of major residential
> applications [...] 71 per cent of decisions on minor residential applications were
> granted.
> [...]
> In the year ending December 2010, 86 per cent of all decisions were granted



In other words it is not true that most gypsy planning applications are for major projects. Even when you take into account the type of application being made,


61% major applications are granted for Gypsies versus 79% in general
53% of minor applications are granted for Gypsies versus 71% in general.
I'd say that was fairly good evidence for prejudice being a component in planning decisions.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 26, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Basildon District Council has denied dumping hardcore on the site, which I suspect is true, because the claim was that the hardcore came from road-works, which Basildon District Council would not have any involvement with - that would have been down to Essex County Council.


pissy technicality!
basildon made the claim that it was done by travellers and hid the FACT that it was done by an authority, that simple enough for you to grasp now?
there is a video of the former owner clearly stating that this was done


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 26, 2011)

ddraig said:


> no need to be a cunt about it
> i didn't say that did i and thought you'd have the nous to work out that i meant that tesco etc do dodgy applications and just use their legal might afterwards. no comparison to people adding an extension.
> 
> what i did say, as i do look on my council website, that there are a lot of retrospective planning applications and chancers who people don't bat an eyelid about as they are seen as 'normal' people.
> ...



Well, if that was your point, which was far from clear, why the fuck did you quote me, when clearly your point had fuck all to do with my post?

I'll also be interested in seeing any examples of the likes of Tesco going ahead with a development and using their 'legal might afterwards', but I'll not hold my breath, because I doubt you'll be able to provide any.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 26, 2011)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/5261844.stm



> *Letter: In allowing Tesco to get away with its breach of planning permission at its Harlescott store, Shropshire Council has shown it is without courage, conviction and commitment in planning.*
> 
> Read more: http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2010/11/01/letter-shropshire-council-is-without-conviction-over-planning-rules/#ixzz1Z4wDWbEZ​




*Supermarkets and the Planning System*
*http://www.corporatewatch.org/?lid=2357*





			
				EmmaCummins said:
			
		

> Well if its the case that one law should apply to all id like to bring your attention to the below.....Maybe we should consider the police going in there with tasers and baton rounds too.....when clearly they built without the correct planning permission!
> 
> Independent retailers, consumers and lobby groups have bombarded the cross-party committee of MPs conducting the inquiry into the retail landscape in 2015 with additional evidence about instances when Tesco has breached its planning consent.
> 
> ...


*http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/in_the_news/a1303186-Whats-happening-with-the-Dale-Farm-eviction*


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 26, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> 61% major applications are granted for Gypsies versus 79% in general
> 53% of minor applications are granted for Gypsies versus 71% in general.
> I'd say that was fairly good evidence for prejudice being a component in planning decisions.



Well done for digging that info up, but on this particular point you're missing the fact that most major applications from developers would be in-accordance with 'local plans', otherwise they wouldn't be wasting their time & money in putting them in.

Therefore the different between 61% & 79%, which I must say I find surprising low TBH, is likely to be justifiable.

It's certainly shit loads short of the 70/30 figure that both Giles & I considered to be a total nonsense to be quoting.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 26, 2011)

ddraig said:


> pissy technicality!
> basildon made the claim that it was done by travellers and hid the FACT that it was done by an authority, that simple enough for you to grasp now?
> there is a video of the former owner clearly stating that this was done



Jesus Fucking H Christ On A Fucking Bike, you seriously think a District Council knows WTF a County Council is doing at any given time? 

I've worked on projects involving a County Council & it's five different Borough & Districts Councils, you clearly haven't, the left hand never seems to know or understand what the right hand is up to.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 26, 2011)

You'd have thought they would have checked first before putting it on the travellers though.


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 26, 2011)

> but on this particular point you're missing the fact that most major applications from developers would be in-accordance with 'local plans', otherwise they wouldn't be wasting their time & money in putting them in.


Local plans that, since the Housing act 2004, should have included provision for Gypsy and Traveller accommodation. The improved rates of successful planning applications, (almost always granted on appeal, in contrast to 'conventional' applications), has come about because the local authorities have not fully complied with their duties under this act. Where a council has not identified land suitable for development for Gypsy and Traveller accommodation in their local development plans they have left themselves wide open to being challenged by any Gypsy or Traveller who buys and develops their own ground.

edited to add - this is also why a large percentage of these successful applications are only passed on a temporary basis, on the grounds that a local authority will in the future identify land more suitable for development and also often tied to a particular family, so can not be sold on as a Traveller site or for other development, but must be returned  to the original state.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 26, 2011)

Traveller and gypsy families have nowhere to fucking live because a sustained campaign of legislation making it illegal to live on the road and then removing the obligaiton of local authorities to provide sites. On top of that there is the clear bias in the application of planning law against gypsies and travellers.

So what the fuck are they supposed to do?

Fuck 'the laws of the land'. The laws of the land effectively destroy traveller communties and isolate them from each other. Its not like not being able to build a fucking conservatory is it?


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 26, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Jesus Fucking H Christ On A Fucking Bike, you seriously think a District Council knows WTF a County Council is doing at any given time?
> 
> I've worked on projects involving a County Council & it's five different Borough & Districts Councils, you clearly haven't, the left hand never seems to know or understand what the right hand is up to.


 
I used to graft with gypsy families. They can be wankers _but_


----------



## Frances Lengel (Sep 26, 2011)

Frances Lengel said:


> I used to graft with gypsy families. They can be wankers _but_



They do need somewhere to live


----------



## ddraig (Sep 26, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Jesus Fucking H Christ On A Fucking Bike, you seriously think a District Council knows WTF a County Council is doing at any given time?
> 
> I've worked on projects involving a County Council & it's five different Borough & Districts Councils, you clearly haven't, the left hand never seems to know or understand what the right hand is up to.


don't be telling me what i have and haven't done and stop wriggling you tory worm


----------



## ddraig (Sep 26, 2011)

no comment on the tesco links either i see!
got your e-fags in your ears (eyes) ?


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 26, 2011)

Kaka Tim said:


> Traveller and gypsy families have nowhere to fucking live because a sustained campaign of legislation making it illegal to live on the road and then removing the obligaiton of local authorities to provide sites.



I totally agree, which is why I support those at Dale Farm - not because I think they should be allowed to to ignore planing laws, but because the government & councils have totally failed to provide enough legal pitches.

The situation should never have come to this, but most of that blame is with the authorities.


----------



## claphamboy (Sep 26, 2011)

ddraig said:


> no comment on the tesco links either i see!
> got your e-fags in your ears (eyes) ?



Oh, I am so sorry, do I need to ask your permission before going to have something to eat?

Twat. 

In all those cases Tesco seems to have had planning permission, but exceeded it, which is also unacceptable, but not the same as not ever actually having any planing permission in the first place.

It's like comparing apples to oranges.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 26, 2011)

Why people are devoting energy to supporting a clan of general tossers who prey on the vulnerable by extracting money for substandard building work- and fly tipping is beyond me.

The idea that protecting semi nomadic rip off merchants is radical is madness - it is just a pointless activist cul de sac.

Members of the clan have been done for attempted Rhino horn smuggling FFS


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 26, 2011)

kenny g said:


> Why people are devoting energy to supporting a clan of general tossers who prey on the vulnerable by extracting money for substandard building work- and fly tipping is beyond me.
> 
> The idea that protecting semi nomadic rip off merchants is radical is madness - it is just a pointless activist cul de sac.
> 
> Members of the clan have been done for attempted Rhino horn smuggling FFS



Please just fuck off now and take your saxophone with you.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 26, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Please just fuck off now and take your saxophone with you.



Your prejudice against a noble and ancient tradition of itinerant musicianship has been noted.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 26, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Please just fuck off now and take your saxophone with you.



I posted the evidence up pages back in this thread- if you choose to ignore the reality of the Sheridan clans business empire than so be it- but it might help to explain why they have so little sympathy- and I speak as an Anarchist.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 26, 2011)

and a racist


----------



## kenny g (Sep 26, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> and a racist


I can't see how race comes into it. Which family is it that bought the site originally? How do they make their money? It is basically an organised crime group that have been taking the piss for decades- nothing to do with travellers rights at all- everything to do with a land grab and claimed settlers rights. They have more akin to Israeli settlers than travellers.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Sep 26, 2011)

kenny g said:


> I posted the evidence up pages back in this thread- if you choose to ignore the reality of the Sheridan clans business empire than so be it- but it might help to explain why they have so little sympathy- and I speak as an Anarchist.



Since when did anarchists support the use of state power to force people from their homes?
I'm no expert, but I think you may be  getting  the basic principles and ideas of  anarchism confused with those more commonly associated with being a biggotted gobshite.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 26, 2011)

I do not support the protection of the Sheridans in Dale farm. It is that simple. And the reason why I do not support them being protected is because many of the residents make money from ripping people off- doing substandard building work and flytipping- let alone just taking money from vulnerable people and then fucking off. It is as simple as that. It is a pointless cause that has very little resonance with people who know what the family are like- i.e their thousands of victims.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> I do not support the protection of the Sheridans in Dale farm. It is that simple. And the reason why I do not support them being protected is because many of the residents make money from ripping people off- doing substandard building work and flytipping- let alone just taking money from vulnerable people and then fucking off. It is as simple as that. It is a pointless cause that has very little resonance with people who know what the family are like- i.e their thousands of victims.



I have no idea whether this is true or not, but either way it is besides the point.  If you have evidence of a crime having been committed then you should report the individual involved to the police. The planning system should not be used by the authorities to achieve any aims other than planning. End of.


----------



## spliff (Sep 27, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> You seriously think applications from the likes of Tesco are greater than those from people just looking to add an extension, etc., to their homes?


erm .. yeah. specially if I offered to bung in a new access road and fund some 'affordable' housing.


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> I posted the evidence up pages back in this thread- if you choose to ignore the reality of the Sheridan clans business empire than so be it- but it might help to explain why they have so little sympathy- and I speak as an Anarchist.


Anarchist, LOL


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> If you have evidence of a crime having been committed then you should report the individual involved to the police.



I wouldn't as I am an anarchist. However, I also would not devote my energies to defending settlers from eviction. Whoever is working undercover in the Dale Farm protest camp must be rubbing their hands in glee- after a year of productive protests  activists have now fenced and barricaded themselves in to an old scrap yard giving Police enormous amounts of overtime whilst generally gaining minimal public understanding or support. But don't worry- because all critics are "wascist" and should "fuck off".


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 27, 2011)

You do the worst impression of an anarchist I've ever seen.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Sep 27, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> You do the worst impression of an anarchist I've ever seen.


 
Au contraire, it's as good a hate fuelled rant as I've seen for ages.


----------



## Next2China (Sep 27, 2011)

I wonder if the Dale Farm protest is successful and there is no eviction if this will lead to a backlash amongst the general population, resentment and anger at the authorities and an hardening of attitudes towards Irish Pavee Travelers, anjay Choudray gave birth to the EDL and still feeds it, could this launch a similar movement? I feel this is, as some one has put it, an activists cul-de-sac, I feel sorry for the kids and having a Community broken-up, but there my sympathy stops. -They have loads of alternatives places to live and have also had ten years to find them, the council has offered them alternative Housing.
-some the families seem to be involved in crime in at least 3 countries, so will get little sympathy.

a lot of energy to achieve nothing possibly.

P.s. I'm not a Anarchist or a Racist.


----------



## likesfish (Sep 27, 2011)

none of the men appearing on camera bit sus
the fact the legal pitches appear to be empty a lot of the time (on holiday) when the site is facing eviction slightly odd behaviour.
  Personally I think the Sheridan clan is dodgy as a dodgy thing claims of getting housing benefit for illegal pitches seems dodgy as well if true.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2011)

what housing has the council offered them? 2/3 nights in a b+b?
insulting

a lot of energy and millions of £'s to put a lot of people on the road to cause more upset to all and many more £'s
great solution!


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 27, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> You do the worst impression of an anarchist I've ever seen.



He's a freeman of the land type, certainly not an anarchist


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2011)

likesfish said:


> none of the men appearing on camera bit sus
> the fact the legal pitches appear to be empty a lot of the time (on holiday) when the site is facing eviction slightly odd behaviour.
> Personally I think the Sheridan clan is dodgy as a dodgy thing claims of getting housing benefit for illegal pitches seems dodgy as well if true.


fuck off! you've been to explained to before why the men don't appear on camera.
you keep banging the same shitty drum

maybe a lot of them are away as they are a bit, scared, you know, of getting their homes smashed up and being beaten, again
can your narrow brain get around that? maybe?


----------



## likesfish (Sep 27, 2011)

frankly dont fucking belive you


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2011)

likesfish said:


> frankly dont fucking belive you


believe what you like hardman prick


----------



## fractionMan (Sep 27, 2011)

you don't believe that people might not want to hang around with a pile of aggro bailiffs known for beating people up and torching caravans outside?


----------



## likesfish (Sep 27, 2011)

No find it a bit  when the legal pitches are deserted and others are preparing to to resist just think the whole things seems a bit sus.​talk of land owned in different areas and houses in Ireland etc​


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2011)

come on then cunt, what is your "theory"? 

"talk of" or any proof at all

and no, a mate of you fantasist army buddy does not count


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> I wouldn't as I am an anarchist. However, I also would not devote my energies to defending settlers from eviction. Whoever is working undercover in the Dale Farm protest camp must be rubbing their hands in glee- after a year of productive protests activists have now fenced and barricaded themselves in to an old scrap yard giving Police enormous amounts of overtime whilst generally gaining minimal public understanding or support. But don't worry- because all critics are "wascist" and should "fuck off".



Fuck off yes (with your saxophone). Racist? I've no idea. One thing is for certain though, there are hundreds of families living at Dale Farm so your allegations against one family bear absolutely fuck all meaning on the wider context.

One person's criminal activity does not make the entire minority they belong to criminals too. So whilst you may or may not be racist, you certainly lack basic logical reasoning.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2011)

Does anyone have any info about the number of sites which local authorities are providing for travellers? I wonder if Basildon has provided enough sites?

Surely if these people had legal sites to stay on - they would.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

ddraig said:


> great solution!



What I think the anti-Gypsy brigade are looking for is some sort of final solution to the issue.

... oh wait, that's already been tried hasn't it?


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Does anyone have any info about the number of sites which local authorities are providing for travellers? I wonder if Basildon has provided enough sites?
> 
> Surely if these people had legal sites to stay on - they would.


are you for real?  or being obtuse on purpose???

there are nowhere near enough sites, even to fulfill their statutory duty and of course Basildon is not providing enough sites. if you'd read the thread or followed it at all you will have seen those arguments being made already.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

ddraig said:


> are you for real?  or being obtuse on purpose???
> 
> there are nowhere near enough sites, even to fulfill their statutory duty and of course Basildon is not providing enough sites. if you'd read the thread or followed it at all you will have seen those arguments being made already.



I think that's the point weltweit is making.


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2011)

ddraig said:


> .. there are nowhere near enough sites, even to fulfill their statutory duty and of course Basildon is not providing enough sites. if you'd read the thread or followed it at all you will have seen those arguments being made already.



I haven't been able to keep up with the thread.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2011)

well start here
old http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http:...8QFjAJ&usg=AFQjCNHgB-kd2E-F57GvcvMP5RTPYUdcRQ


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> I think that's the point weltweit is making.


you'd hope so but not sure tbh!


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2011)

ddraig said:


> well start here
> old http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http:...8QFjAJ&usg=AFQjCNHgB-kd2E-F57GvcvMP5RTPYUdcRQ



Bugger, that leads to a pdf and I don't yet have a pdf reader on my new pc..


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2011)

I think the point I made which was:

"Surely if these people had legal sites to stay on - they would."

Is valid...


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2011)

more reading from travellerslaw.org.uk
facts and figs
http://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http:...jAAOAo&usg=AFQjCNEDZ0xskZhUMif3FlyNP8yQMBxtUA


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2011)

weltweit said:


> I think the point I made which was:
> 
> "Surely if these people had legal sites to stay on - they would."
> 
> Is valid...


well obviously! jeez
and why is that currently the case brainiac?


----------



## weltweit (Sep 27, 2011)

ddraig said:


> well obviously! jeez
> and why is that currently the case brainiac?



Presumably because Basildon Council have not provided sufficient sites.


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 27, 2011)

weltweit said:


> Presumably because Basildon Council have not provided sufficient sites.



i think you'll find that Basildon provides many more sites than other areas


----------



## ddraig (Sep 27, 2011)

is it sufficient tho? up to their statutory duty?
'many more than others' does not = 'sufficient' does it

though you are likely to come back with "ugh, 1 is more than sufficient, why don't they ugg, travel like, or go, ugg, back to where they came from'


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> He's a freeman of the land type, certainly not an anarchist



Oh really, and how the fuck would you know- or are you the anarchshit arbiter all of a sudden?

If you claim to be an anarchist you must be an ex leftist  who has tried to cover their blood stained beliefs in a convenient black but has left none of the petty dogma behind.


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2011)

Anarchism is a left wing political philosophy. If you aren't approaching it from a left wing perspective then you can call 'down with the state' all you like but you're just a US style rugged individualist


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> Anarchism is a left wing political philosophy. If you aren't approaching it from a left wing perspective then you can call 'down with the state' all you like but you're just a US style rugged individualist


As an anarchist I approach things with an open mind.At first I was up for supporting the Dale farm residents- I even went to a bookfair meeting on it last year. I have and still do argue against anti-traveller rascism repeatedly in my day to day life. My change in views towards the sheridans and their associate clan have come about partly as a result of this thread and the links I posted up - not from one source but from many all detailing the sheridans involvement in ripping people off. The links back up what I have heard in the past from many decent people and tradesmen.

Stories including a carpet fitter being called to one of the chalets a few years back - not knowing or caring anything about travellers he went and carpetted the chalet out - when it came to being paid he was told that he had spilt oil on the carpet (absolute bollocks) he was then basically told to fuck off. End result - no payment for work done.

But no, according to people on this thread the carpet fitter- and the numerous other ripped off people- are just misguided rascists. And I am a right wing nut job because I won't support a criminal clan who happen to be the cause of  the latest activist cul de sac. It is madness.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> My change in views towards the sheridans and their associate clan have come about partly as a result of this thread and the links I posted up - not from one source but from many all detailing the sheridans involvement in ripping people off.



I was just wondering kenny, what do you think of what I said in post #912?


----------



## DotCommunist (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> Oh really, and how the fuck would you know- or are you the anarchshit arbiter all of a sudden?
> 
> *If you claim to be an anarchist you must be an ex leftist who has tried to cover their blood stained beliefs in a convenient black but has left none of the petty dogma behind.*



this is what I was responding to kenny. Anarchism is a political philosophy _of the left. _A little off topic perhaps, but I was slightly bewildered by 'ex-leftist' and 'blood stained beliefs'. Given that anarchism is a left wing position and 'blood stained' is presumably referencing Uncle Joe's naughtiness.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> I was just wondering kenny, what do you think of what I said in post #912?


It is far more than one person. It is as if the Blundell's ( a well known family from South Ockendon nearby) and all their associates and extended family settled on mass on some land rather than having bought loads of houses in South Ockendon. You would then have a crew of car clampers (South East Clamping)/ debt collectors (Blundells & Associates)/ unlicensed  money lenders / ice cream extortion racket runners (Picadilly Whip) etc settled down on one site. Well, all well and good - that is up to their victims or the police or whoever to deal with (or take backhanders from).

The Sheridans clan and  associates  at Dale farm  are the equivalent of the Blundells. However, their racket is to operate a massive Europe wide operation doing extremely substandard building "work" extracting money from unknowing or vulnerable people - and then basically fucking off leaving them to pick up the pieces. The womenfolk act as the money launderers- cashing checks and stashing cash. The men go out and bring back the booty. Money gets poured into fixed chalets in Limerick which are used for major get togethers like christmas. The base of european ops from the South east is Dale Farm and Smithy Fen in cambridgeshire.

Live and let live and all of that- but why the fuck activists have ended up impounded behind fencing on behalf of these shisters I do not know.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> It is far more than one person. It is as if the Blundell's ( a well known family from South Ockendon nearby) and all their associates and extended family settled on mass on some land rather than having bought loads of houses in South Ockendon. You would then have a crew of car clampers (South East Clamping)/ debt collectors (Blundells & Associates)/ unlicensed money lenders / ice cream extortion racket runners (Picadilly Whip) etc settled down on one site. Well, all well and good - that is up to their victims or the police or whoever to deal with (or take backhanders from).
> 
> The Sheridans clan and associates at Dale farm are the equivalent of the Blundells. However, their racket is to operate a massive Europe wide operation doing extremely substandard building "work" extracting money from unknowing or vulnerable people - and then basically fucking off leaving them to pick up the pieces. The womenfolk act as the money launderers- cashing checks and stashing cash. The men go out and bring back the booty. Money gets poured into fixed chalets in Limerick which are used for major get togethers like christmas. The base of european ops from the South east is Dale Farm and Smithy Fen in cambridgeshire.
> 
> Live and let live and all of that- but why the fuck activists have ended up impounded behind fencing on behalf of these shisters I do not know.



When Jews were forced into ghetto's throughout Europe, I'm sure there were criminals amongst them. When black people were kept as slaves in the US, I'm sure there were criminals amongst them. When disabled people were euthanised in the 20th century, I'm sure there were criminals amongst them. And now that a whole community are being evicted from their homes, I'm sure there are criminals amongst them.

Do you not get it?


----------



## Blagsta (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> Oh really, and how the fuck would you know- or are you the anarchshit arbiter all of a sudden?
> 
> If you claim to be an anarchist you must be an ex leftist  who has tried to cover their blood stained beliefs in a convenient black but has left none of the petty dogma behind.


LOL


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> When Jews were forced into ghetto's throughout Europe, I'm sure there were criminals amongst them. When black people were kept as slaves in the US, I'm sure there were criminals amongst them. When disabled people were euthanised in the 20th century, I'm sure there were criminals amongst them. And now that a whole community are being evicted from their homes, I'm sure there are criminals amongst them.
> 
> Do you not get it?



What - that you haven't got a clue? It is not a whole community. It is half a site.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> It is half a site.



That constitute a community.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> That constitute a community.



Does half a site constitute a "whole community"? No it doesn't, and to equate clearing half a site with forcing jews into ghettos, keeping people in slavery and euthanasia of disabled people must be a record for Godwins law  even for Urban 75.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> Does half a site constitute a "whole community"? No it doesn't, and to equate clearing half a site with forcing jews into ghettos, keeping people in slavery and euthanasia of disabled people must be a record for Godwins law even for Urban 75.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law



Way to miss the point. Let me spell it out. A principle is at stake here - one that opposes collective punishment. People are being removed from their homes under the guise of 'planning' laws that effectively discriminate against them on the grounds of their cultural/ethnic background. Whilst there will be criminal INDIVIDUALS amongst them, this does not justify the act being perpetrated against that GROUP.

*In the same way that INDIVIDUAL criminal behaviour among black slaves, disabled people or Jews did not justify the COLLECTIVE punishment of those groups, neither does it in the case of the families at Dale Farm.*

Get It?


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> Does half a site constitute a "whole community"? No it doesn't, and to equate clearing half a site with forcing jews into ghettos, keeping people in slavery and euthanasia of disabled people must be a record for Godwins law even for Urban 75.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law



Nobody is saying this is nazism. Of course it doesn't represent a "whole community", but put into context with the fact that 98% of planning applications by travellers are rejected anyway, do you start to see why this is an xample of discrimination?


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 27, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> put into context with the fact that 98% of planning applications by travellers are rejected anyway, do you start to see why this is an xample of discrimination?


no they are not - see above


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Way to miss the point. Let me spell it out. A principle is at stake here - one that opposes collective punishment. People are being removed from their homes under the guise of 'planning' laws that effectively discriminate against them on the grounds of their cultural/ethnic background. Whilst there will be criminal INDIVIDUALS amongst them, this does not justify the act being perpetrated against that GROUP.
> 
> *In the same way that INDIVIDUAL criminal behaviour among black slaves, disabled people or Jews did not justify the COLLECTIVE punishment of those groups, neither does it in the case of the families at Dale Farm.*
> 
> Get It?



How many crews of disabled rip off tarmac layers were there in Nazi Germany? What the fuck are you on about? And to draw parallels with slavery  and a planning dispute is frankly sick.

I understand the concept of collective punishment and this is not that. Evictions happen all the time all over the UK when people can't pay their mortgages or shite landlords up the rent. Is that the same as the jewish ghetto?


----------



## frogwoman (Sep 27, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> no they are not - see above



Really? that's the statistic i keep hearing from mates on facebook doing activism around this issue, thanks for the correction. What is the true figure (if you know)


----------



## Balbi (Sep 27, 2011)

76% for the rest of us, about 67% for travellers.

My mum can't actually talk about this subject, her brain goes fizzle pop and she starts frothing at the mouth about deporting them back to their fixed houses in Ireland.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> How many crews of disabled rip off tarmac layers were there in Nazi Germany? What the fuck are you on about? And to draw parallels with slavery and a planning dispute is frankly sick.
> 
> I understand the concept of collective punishment and this is not that. Evictions happen all the time all over the UK when people can't pay their mortgages or shite landlords up the rent. Is that the same as the jewish ghetto?



My God! You are _infuriatingly_ obtuse.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> see why this is an xample of discrimination?



It is a good idea to choose your battles and choosing to battle on behalf of the clan who own the half of dale farm that is being evicted is wrong.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> My God! You are _infuriatingly_ obtuse.



No mate, I am the full 90°


----------



## gunneradt (Sep 27, 2011)

one thing's for sure - there'll be less cable theft when they're gone - and more scrap metal merchants looking for new customers.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

Balbi said:


> 76% for the rest of us, about 67% for travellers.



http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/statistics/pdf/1876333.pdf

61% major applications are granted for Gypsies versus 79% in general
53% of minor applications are granted for Gypsies versus 71% in general.

Although it has been pointed that the 79% rate for major projects may be because of the double checking of applications by large development companies before they send applications off. In other words, the larger companies can afford to get the proposals spot-on before even posting them out.


----------



## Ground Elder (Sep 27, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> Really? that's the statistic i keep hearing from mates on facebook doing activism around this issue, thanks for the correction. What is the true figure (if you know)


The 90% statistic that everyone uses is out of date. The latest figures from 2010 suggests a success rate of around 60-70% for Gypsy and Traveller applications compared to around 80% for non-G/T applications. Many of these planning cases have been won on appeal, as local authorities have failed to fulfil their post-2004 duties to make provision for G/Ts resorting to or residing in their area. Can't be bothered to look up the exact stats at the moment, but a significant amount of these newly approved sites only have temporary permission (usually 3 - 5 years) and are often tied to a particular family, so can not be sold on as a Gypsy site or for any other development.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> It is a good idea to choose your battles and choosing to battle on behalf of the clan who own the half of dale farm that is being evicted is wrong.



My neighbours kids got caught smoking pot. Shall I be charged with the crime too?

GET IT??


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> GET IT??



No one is getting charged with anything at Dale farm at the mo.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> No one is getting charged with anything at Dale farm at the mo.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

You've gotta laugh really haven't you? The poor guy.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> You've gotta laugh really haven't you? The poor guy.


Just help get him a good solicitor and he should be all right.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Sep 27, 2011)

kenny g said:


> Just help get him a good solicitor and he should be all right.



I'm talking about you. YOU are the guy.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 27, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> YOU are the guy.


My neighbour doesn't have any kids. Creepy but wrong.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 29, 2011)

meanwhile in Wales 
*Welsh Government's travellers' strategy 'a UK first'*


> "It's better that we have a strategy like this where the government talks to a lot of key partners like ourselves to manage the situation, reflect on it and get people to have a conversation with each other, so the sort of community tension that we found at Dale Farm isn't replicated here."
> 
> The Welsh Government established a programme to refurbish existing traveller sites in 2007 and extended it in 2009 to develop new sites.
> It announced £2m to fund work on sites earlier this year. In total, 25 grants have been awarded over four years to 11 local authorities
> ...


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-15093614


----------



## winjer (Sep 29, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents/localgovernment/pdf/1198171
> 
> Council tax isn't chargeable on a 'dwelling where occupation is forbidden by law' (page 15 of the above pdf), so the council may have been illegally charging council tax on the part of the site to be evicted.


Only so long as they remain unoccupied. See the Exempt Dwellings Order, or ah, page 14 of the above.


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## ddraig (Sep 29, 2011)

itv Wales news about the strategy and general relations issues
from 5mins40secs in
possible application in the Vale of Glamorgan for fracking testing is the first item
http://www.itv.com/wales/fullprogramme/


----------



## stuff_it (Sep 30, 2011)

ddraig said:


> itv Wales news about the strategy and general relations issues
> from 5mins40secs in
> possible application in the Vale of Glamorgan for fracking testing is the first item
> http://www.itv.com/wales/fullprogramme/


----------



## ddraig (Sep 30, 2011)

has it gone? changed?
sorry if so


----------



## winjer (Oct 1, 2011)

Next2China said:


> I wonder if the Dale Farm protest is successful and there is no eviction if this will lead to a backlash amongst the general population, resentment and anger at the authorities and an hardening of attitudes towards Irish Pavee Travelers.


It's difficult to see how attitudes could get any worse, given the regular suggestions that machine guns, flame throwers and nuclear bombs be used to clear the site.

Ideally it would lead to a backlash against policies which fuel property speculation and maintain an artificial housing shortage.



> They have loads of alternatives places to live and have also had ten years to find them


They don't. And they can't "find them" while councils like Basildon have explicitly racist planning policies.


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 1, 2011)

winjer said:


> It's difficult to see how attitudes could get any worse, given the regular suggestions that machine guns, flame throwers and nuclear bombs be used to clear the site.
> 
> Ideally it would lead to a backlash against policies which fuel property speculation and maintain an artificial housing shortage.
> 
> They don't. And they can't "find them" while councils like Basildon have explicitly racist planning policies.



Basildon provides a lot more pitches than most other places.  I think it's 3rd in Essex or something similar.

Councils don't have an obligation.


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## ddraig (Oct 1, 2011)

god you're thick 
can you back any of your claims up please?


----------



## stuff_it (Oct 1, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> Basildon provides a lot more pitches than most other places. I think it's 3rd in Essex or something similar.
> 
> Councils don't have an obligation.


Actually they do, but they generally only fulfil the letter of the law not the spirit.

And why should these people need to take up scarce council pitches when they have their own brownfield site where they are happy?


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2011)

gunners on his third can of fosters


----------



## JHE (Oct 1, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> Councils don't have an obligation.





stuff_it said:


> Actually they do...



Apparently, local authorities *had* a duty under the 1968 Caravan Sites Act to provide suitable sites, but this was scrapped in 1994.



> The repeal of the 1968 Caravan Sites Act, not only means that councils no longer need to build sites, but that they can close down existing sites.



From: http://www.gypsy-traveller.org/your-rights/law/historical-laws/


----------



## stuff_it (Oct 1, 2011)

JHE said:


> I believe local authorities *had* a duty under the 1968 Caravan Sites Act to provide suitable sites, but this was scrapped in 1994.
> 
> From: http://www.gypsy-traveller.org/your-rights/law/historical-laws/


Having been through several long winded court evictions etc it's been pretty much concluded that they are meant to have provision, but many only provide a very small number of pitches and then claim they have done so - they aren't forced to by that law, but they have trouble getting evictions through if there is literally zero provision if people are for example parked on disused council land. There are various other cases when they have been forced to improve provision where a lot of people have proved that they have family ties to that particular area, etc.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2011)

It was claimed earlier that under the 2004 Housing Act the councils do have to provide sites and the failure to do iswhat causes the validation of many retroactive planning permission claims


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## gunneradt (Oct 1, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> gunners on his third can of fosters



arent there a few roads that need sweeping on a saturday night for a minimum wage?


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Actually they do, but they generally only fulfil the letter of the law not the spirit.
> 
> And why should these people need to take up scarce council pitches when they have their own brownfield site where they are happy?



errrrrrrr, it doesn't have planning permission - end of story


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## stuff_it (Oct 1, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> errrrrrrr, it doesn't have planning permission - end of story


Not if planning applications that are reasonable are generally not granted to one community where they are granted to another.


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## DotCommunist (Oct 1, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> arent there a few roads that need sweeping on a saturday night for a minimum wage?


 
that'll be number five then. Hurry up and finish your six for a fiver deal


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 1, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> that'll be number five then. Hurry up and finish your six for a fiver deal



I apologise - I always thought you were, indeed, Trigger


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 1, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Not if planning applications that are reasonable are generally not granted to one community where they are granted to another.



why do you think a plot of land that size cost what it did - because it didn't have planning permission!!


----------



## Deareg (Oct 1, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> that'll be number five then. Hurry up and finish your six for a fiver deal


I bet his local boozer are glad he decided to get a carry out and not go down there for a drink, he is determined to get involved in as many (bun)fights as possible tonight.


----------



## winjer (Oct 2, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> Basildon provides a lot more pitches than most other places. I think it's 3rd in Essex or something similar.


Basildon provides 25 pitches, out of Essex's 169. They're full, of course.


> Councils don't have an obligation.


"The duty on local authorities to provide sites was abolished in 1994. The present duty is to make provision for sites in development plans and to perform duties under the Housing Act 1996 ("the 1996 Act"). The current guidance from the government is in Office of the Deputy Prime Minister ("ODPM") Circular 01/2006 entitled "Planning for Gypsy and Traveller Caravan Sites"."

http://www.judiciary.gov.uk/media/judgments/2009/basildon-council-v-mccarthy-others

I don't think the position has changed since then, though it is likely to if the Localism Bill passes as it stands.



gunneradt said:


> why do you think a plot of land that size cost what it did - because it didn't have planning permission!!


It's not that simple. No land in Basildon was designated in their Local Plan for future Travellers' sites, because they say they have enough Travellers. Even other councils have objected to this, e.g.

"• The paragraphs use inconsistent survey dates to give a flawed representation of site numbers;
• The paragraphs do not follow Government guidance and do not have the benefit of an up to date, best practice based, needs assessment;
• The plan text is contrary to the advice given in Circular 1/94 and the more recent consultation document entitled Planning for Gypsy and Traveller Sites; and
• Basildon’s Local Plan would have the effect of pushing development to other Districts."

http://cmis.rochford.gov.uk/CMISWebPublic/Binary.ashx?Document=12645


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 2, 2011)

and do you know what?  Nobody cares1!


----------



## Deareg (Oct 2, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> and do you know what? Nobody cares1!


Arrogant cunts like you always think that you are speaking for everyone.


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 2, 2011)

Not at all - Ive never heard anyone speak up for them in Essex


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## Zabo (Oct 2, 2011)

Last night I watched a brilliant documentary about a Mexican travelling circus - _Circo_. It made me think of this thread and realise what a bunch of cunts they are at Dale Farm. Travellers my arse. They wouldn't know the meaning of the word.

The Mexican circus family never stayed in one spot for more than two days. Then all the family - from four years of age up - pull together to get the show on the road by loading up all the gear, animals, food etc. Driving non stop through the night to different parts of Mexico until they reach their next piece of ground. They are constantly grafting to eek out a meagre living and nowhere did they have any signs such as the likes of that bollox at Dale Farm - _Old lady with breathing problems lives here._ Oh do fuck off you whining bastards.

How wonderfully refreshing to watch a real family. A family that cares not just for the young but also their great grandparents. A family unit that works damned hard and doesn't ask for anything other than what they have earned. And yes...none of them could stand living on a permanent site.

Travellers my arse. Benefit seeking tinkers more like.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 2, 2011)

I think you've hit on the solution there gabo - they should join the circus. Yes, they should. They should join the circus.

Nice to see you finally expose the real you as well. Not that it wasn't peeking through before mind.


----------



## Deareg (Oct 2, 2011)

Zabo said:


> Last night I watched a brilliant documentary about a Mexican travelling circus - _Circo_. It made me think of this thread and realise what a bunch of cunts they are at Dale Farm. Travellers my arse. They wouldn't know the meaning of the word.
> 
> The Mexican circus family never stayed in one spot for more than two days. Then all the family - from four years of age up - pull together to get the show on the road by loading up all the gear, animals, food etc. Driving non stop through the night to different parts of Mexico until they reach their next piece of ground. They are constantly grafting to eek out a meagre living and nowhere did they have any signs such as the likes of that bollox at Dale Farm - _Old lady with breathing problems lives here._ Oh do fuck off you whining bastards.
> 
> ...


What a thick cunt.


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 2, 2011)

the biggest talking point that Ive seen is how much benefit they're claiming and whether they should be getting any at all.


----------



## Ground Elder (Oct 2, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> It was claimed earlier that under the 2004 Housing Act the councils do have to provide sites and the failure to do iswhat causes the validation of many retroactive planning permission claims


Under the Act Local Authorities are required to identify the extent of Gypsy and Traveller accommodation requirements and to develop appropriate long-term strategies to meet these. Where needs are identified, local Development Plan Documents must identify locations for additional Gypsy and Traveller sites. Gypsy and Traveller Accommodation Assessments (GTAAs) were carried out by all Local Authorities around 2006, providing the evidence base for housing and planning authorities about the extent of the unmet need. The Act fell short of re-introducing the pre 1994 duty for LAs to actually provide the sites themselves, but where there was unlikely to be sufficient provision by private developers or registered social landlords the onus was on LAs to develop sites. 100% central government funding was made available (and still is) LAs or RSL to provide socially rented sites.


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## Zabo (Oct 2, 2011)

Butchers - Have you seen the film? If not you should. But of course it's the real me. I have no time for fucking scroungers or wasters let alone those who like to hide behind every Human Rights act yet have probably contributed sweet f.a. to society.

There are travellers and there are travellers - those at Dale Farm are not. Resident tinkers more than likely. And the stupid bitch that compared it to Ethnic Cleansing! FFS! It seems like every man, dog, woman and cat with a cause to chase has embedded themselves in with the luckless travellers. Oh woe are we. We must _fight_ the terrible, wicked system. We have been wronged. We assert our right to _travel_ from one fixed caravan to the one five yards away.

Maybe somebody should organise a showing of _Circo_ for the Dale Farm residents and let them see how its really done.

Let them travel. Give them a drink, a sandwich, a map and tell them to travel the fuck off Dale Farm and live up to their self-appointed name.


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## Deareg (Oct 2, 2011)

Zabo said:


> Let them travel. Give them a drink, a sandwich, a map and tell them to travel the fuck off Dale Farm and live up to their self-appointed name.



Read the fucking thread, you lazy thick cunt, it has been explained numerous times why they don't travel.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 2, 2011)

Hey gunner, you've finally got some competition for the position of thickest most prejudiced fucker on the boards. How do you intend to respond? Careful now though, this one has delusions of intellect. He watched a foreign film once i heard. Which, by my reckoning, makes him an expert on domestic social policy, council planning and social demographics.


----------



## Zabo (Oct 2, 2011)

Butchers if you spent a little less time with your 8000,000 postings you might get chance to see the real world. Defending the indefensible just makes you a fukwit. But then using the poor and downtrodden to latch on to for a cause has always been a popular pursuit. If you ain't got your own cause latch on to somebody else's.

Apropos "domestic social policy, council planning and social demographics. " All know you are the site expert and wouldn't dare to challenge your incredible knowledge and expertise.

As for your reckoning. Simple - If you don't value the person why bother valuing their opinions let alone reckonings.

You have no value.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 2, 2011)

Truly astonishing. He doesn't like someone's real life so he suggests they do what some other people another country do - who are living a way of life unsustainable in the modern world btw - because _that's real lif_e, and without even recognising that a film is not a depiction of real life, it's a edited construction of a vision of real life. Genius.


----------



## Zabo (Oct 2, 2011)

Given you haven't seen the film how the fuck do you know it's an 'edited construction' of a vision of real life? You mean like your posts? You talk piss without any real knowledge. Care to expound on the dialogue between the director and family as to the 'style' of the film?

And the work ethic? Was that an idealised vision or real?

How do you know its unsustainable in the modern world? Have you tried it or is your knowledge so profound you know everything?

You truly are a dumb fuck of the lowest order.


----------



## winjer (Oct 2, 2011)

Zabo said:


> And the stupid bitch that compared it to Ethnic Cleansing!


Is it the 'Ethnic' or the 'Cleansing' you're denying?


----------



## Zabo (Oct 2, 2011)

I am specifically referring to the term she used which was "Ethnic Cleansing". No matter how I try I can not make the mental leap of moving people from Dale Farm because of planning regulations to that which happened in  Kosovo

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8327210.stm

or that in Sudan

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/from_our_own_correspondent/3752871.stm

To use such a term in a completely different context does a disservice to those who were brutally tortured and killed. What next - exterminated?


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 2, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Hey gunner, you've finally got some competition for the position of thickest most prejudiced fucker on the boards. How do you intend to respond? Careful now though, this one has delusions of intellect. He watched a foreign film once i heard. Which, by my reckoning, makes him an expert on domestic social policy, council planning and social demographics.



good grief - are you sure?

I woudn't try and take your mantle away from you.  From the man who thought getting in a car was 'heroic'?

Anyway, it's nothing to do with prejudice.  Everyopne wants them gone to stop thieving, scrounging and a blot on the landcsape.


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 2, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Truly astonishing. He doesn't like someone's real life so he suggests they do what some other people another country do - who are living a way of life unsustainable in the modern world btw - because _that's real lif_e, and without even recognising that a film is not a depiction of real life, it's a edited construction of a vision of real life. Genius.



Actually come to think of it - the way you write looks like you learnt English in some of kind of dodgy Berlitz book.


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## Zabo (Oct 2, 2011)

Best add to Adam Lee Davies's comment from Time Out:

"A gem of a documentary it’s a crisply shot, emotionally frank and genuinely moving glimpse into a way of life that has become _almost_ too fragile to continue."

That of the Butcher's Dog:

"... it's a edited construction of a vision of real life." And that's without having seen it!

http://www.circomexico.com/

Donations:

http://www.circomexico.com/donate.html

pmsl


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## winjer (Oct 2, 2011)

Zabo said:


> I am specifically referring to the term she used which was "Ethnic Cleansing". No matter how I try I can not make the mental leap of moving people from Dale Farm because of planning regulations to that which happened in Kosovo


It's not because of abstract "planning regulations", it's because of Basildon Council's explicitly stated intention to reduce the number of Travellers in Basildon.



> To use such a term in a completely different context does a disservice to those who were brutally tortured and killed. What next - exterminated?


Curious. It follows I suppose that you deny that anyone in Bosnia and Kosovo who was neither brutally tortured nor killed, was not ethnically cleansed either? Those who were merely removed or displaced because of their ethnicity should probably watch more foreign films, right?

I mean, population transfer, no-one's ever called that ethnic cleansing anywhere else, have they?


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## Zabo (Oct 2, 2011)

Winjer. Are you a member of Butcher's Dumb Fuck club? I gather so. What the fuck have foreign films got to do with Sudan or Kosovo? Where have I denied that people in Kosovo or the Sudan were not tortured or killed? Quote the exact sentence don't try to extrapolate from that which isn't.

Where have I said "abstract planning regulations"?

You seem to be so far up your own abstract arse that you seem unable to differentiate between Basidlon Council removing people from a site and people being intentionally killed in what has now been termed as 'ethnic cleansing'. Have you too been using the Berlitz book as gunneradt suggested to the dog? It appears so.


----------



## JimW (Oct 2, 2011)

Zabo said:


> <snip>
> 
> That of the Butcher's Dog:
> 
> ...


You don't have to see it to say it's an edited vision of real life, because all films are by their very nature, you daft sod. Odd hill to pick to die on.


----------



## Zabo (Oct 2, 2011)

Possibly so Jim but it doesn't change the thrust of my main argument about one set of real travellers and those that like to pretend they are travellers.

As for films and a particular perspective. Isn't that the same for every human being without a camera? Remember the Guardian ad? Ergo film is not the only thing that is partial - unless of course one is a butcher's dog and is all seeing and all knowing. And then there is the subjectivity of the viewing. What you see is not what I may see.


----------



## JimW (Oct 2, 2011)

Well, did this film give you any perspective on what sort of legal and social environment the "real" travellers in Mexico go about their lives under? It's not as if UK travellers settling for longer happened in a vacuum; if you wanted to travel as traditionally it'd be nigh on impossible. You're bringing in talk about the real world and then making comparisons with an entirely different social setting.


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## Zabo (Oct 2, 2011)

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "real" travellers Jim. It was a documentary about a particular family running their own circus - a travelling circus. There was no mention of legalities. It was very clear though that they did not like to stay put in one place except for when they became too old to travel and be part of the work team.

For them, travelling was not a misnomer.


----------



## JimW (Oct 2, 2011)

I took that to be a distinction you were making, accusing people at Dale farm of refusing to roam. And now you're saying the film didn't address the legalities - maybe it's not an issue yet in Mexico as traditional norms still prevail, but whatever the case, the fact it's not mentioned at least suggests it's not a significant barrier for this circus. It would be if people wanted to travel again in the UK as they have for centuries, so it's not much of a useful comparison or stick to beat the people at Dale Farm with, as far as I can see.


----------



## Zabo (Oct 2, 2011)

So why describe oneself as  'a traveller' if one is not? Do the folk who live in the permanently fixed (static) caravans which are spread across the U.K. refer to themselves as 'travellers'?


----------



## JimW (Oct 2, 2011)

Jesus. Have you read the thread? It's the name of the ethnic group to which the people at Dale Farm belong, recognised as such in Irish and UK law.


----------



## Blagsta (Oct 2, 2011)

Zabo said:


> "... it's a edited construction of a vision of real life."



All films are edited and constructed, by their very nature.


----------



## Zabo (Oct 2, 2011)

Of course I have Jim. I would however question the term 'ethnic group' in this particular instance. Would the same apply to the indigenous population on the Isle Of Harris?

According to the 'Internaet Bible' we could be here forever!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_ethnic_groups


----------



## JimW (Oct 2, 2011)

This is that real world you were so keen for us to hold the debate in?


----------



## winjer (Oct 3, 2011)

Zabo said:


> Where have I denied that people in Kosovo or the Sudan were not tortured or killed? Quote the exact sentence don't try to extrapolate from that which isn't.


It seems to be common ground that the vast majority of those who were tortured or killed were targetted because of their ethnicity, thus ethnically cleansed.

My question however, is whether you are doing a disservice to those Kosovars, Bosniaks, Roma etc who were forced to flee or forcibly removed from their homes, by refusing to acknowledge that population transfer is a method of ethnic cleansing.

I draw your attention to the following section of the report of the UN commission on ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia:

"Other noteworthy practices are widespread destruction of villages by systematically burning them to the ground and blowing up all the houses and structures in a given area. This includes cultural and religious monuments and symbols. The purpose of this destruction is to eradicate cultural, social and religious traces that identify the ethnic and religious groups. In the cases where the practices described above do not occur, these groups are forced to leave under duress by reason of a well-founded fear for their personal security."



> Where have I said "abstract planning regulations"?



These >"< are quotation marks, people use them to indicate which parts of text are quotations. Perhaps you should investigate this.


----------



## winjer (Oct 3, 2011)

Zabo said:


> I would however question the term 'ethnic group' in this particular instance.


"There is no doubt that the claimants are all to be regarded as Gypsies or Travellers and, as Irish Travellers, are a particular racial group"
http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2008/987.html

"Modern Irish travellers are guided by the culture and traditions which have been handed down by generations. They do not go around reading history, they practise it."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2000/aug/30/race.world


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 3, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> Not at all - Ive never heard anyone speak up for them in Essex



that's because all your mates are cunts too.

hth.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 3, 2011)

> Dale Farm Solidarity
> #dalefarm hearing at 11 in court 76 before Edwards-Stuart. Looks like Basildon Council is set to concede the eviction will be partial!


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## stuff_it (Oct 3, 2011)

Zabo said:


> So why describe oneself as 'a traveller' if one is not? Do the folk who live in the permanently fixed (static) caravans which are spread across the U.K. refer to themselves as 'travellers'?


There is  difference between 'travelers' and Travellers, the clue is in the capital letters.

Technically even fairground people aren't classed as ethnic Travellers under law even though plenty of them have never lived in anything more permanent than a static and lots still travel constantly.

Most of the trailers on my site (fairground) are 'static', but they have an a-frame (so are towable if you have something big enough to pull them) rather than needing to be moved on a low-loader, so where do you draw the line?

One of the main reasons Travellers settle in one place now if they can is so that they have somewhere to go back to, and so that their kids can go to school properly, something that was sadly lacking in the past for Traveller kids. Even the kids off new traveller sites get a lot of shit at school unless you get a fair few of them going to the same school together, so wanting to live in bigger groups rather than see little kids come home from school in tears isn't that unusual.

I'm pretty sure I also mentioned vigies earlier in the thread as well, but for the hard of thinking here it is again. As a new traveller I know several people who have been firebombed, one died slowly and horrible and the police didn't investigate, on the same site I was petrol-bombed but was away for the weekend so I'm still alive, and a mate was molotoved and only survived because of a total fluke (she fell asleep on the bed looking at the kitchen fire extinguisher for the first time in years, and woke up that night to find the whole front half of her truck and the only way out in flames). Trust me people hate Travellers a lot more than they do us hippies.


----------



## Ground Elder (Oct 3, 2011)

stuff_it said:


> Technically even fairground people aren't classed as ethnic Travellers under law even though plenty of them have never lived in anything more permanent than a static and lots still travel constantly.


There are differing definitions of Gypsies and Travellers for legal and planning purposes, the definition used for Housing Act 2004 does include Showmen:  

Legal Definitions
Romani Gypsies, Irish Travellers and Scottish Travellers are protected as ethnic groups under the Race Relations Act 1976 and Race Relations (Amendment) Act 2000, whether they are nomadic or not, and have the same rights to race relations protection as other recognised ethnic minority groups. 

An ethnic group is seen as having “a long shared history of which the group is conscious as distinguishing it from other groups and the memory of which keeps it alive” and “a cultural tradition of it’s own including family and social customs and manners, often but not necessarily associated with religious observance” (Law Lords definition of March 1983: Mandla Sikh Turban Case.)

Planning guidance definition
The planning guidance definition is different to the legal definition of Gypsies and Travellers, and is used for planning purposes:
The term "Gypsies and Travellers" means:
"Persons of nomadic habit of life whatever their race or origin, including such persons who on grounds only of their own or their family's or dependants' educational or health needs or old age have ceased to travel temporarily or permanently, but excluding members of an organised group of travelling show people or circus people travelling together as such.

Housing Act 2004 definition
The Housing Act 2004 definition is used for assessing accommodation needs - not just those in caravans.
The term "Gypsies and Travellers" means:
"persons with a cultural tradition of nomadism or of living in a caravan; and all other persons of a nomadic habit of life, whatever their race or origin, including:
(i) such persons who, on grounds only of their own or their family's or dependant's educational or health needs or old age, have ceased to travel temporarily or permanently; and
(ii) members of an organised group of travelling showpeople or circus people (whether or not travelling together as such)."

It also seems to have escaped some people's notice that the 'legal' half of Dale Farm is currently largely empty because the *residents are away travelling *


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 3, 2011)

Newts call on Tony Ball to resign


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 3, 2011)

ruling just in


> A judge has ruled that Basildon Council can remove caravans from 49 out of 54 of plots at an illegal travellers' site at Dale Farm, Essex...........However, the ruling states walls, fences and gates should remain on site.



other case still ongoing...


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

stephj said:


> So you shouldn't bother with resistance/demonstrating because of the 'inevitable'? Fuck that.



Quite. "The cuts" are inevitable, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't fight them either.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

stephj said:


> I've read material in the past from the 50/60s which refers to 'Irish travellers'. That you've resorted to picking me up on a simple your/you're typo is pretty desperate stuff.



You'll also find stuff as far back as the mid 19th century referring to "Irish travelling folk", usually alongside references to drunkenness and prostitution, and generally misapplied to mean what went on at navvie camps (local whores and shopkeepers visiting the navvie camps to sell their wares, but whose part in events the papers generally ignored), but sometimes referring to what were also known as "tinker bands".


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> what's the difference between a gypsy and a traveller then?



Gypsy denotes a specific set of heritages (Roma, Tzigany, and various intermixes of the above with natives of the countries they travel in plus, in the east of England at least, the "water gypsies" who were riverine travellers, but who also filled a very useful niche in the transport of perishable goods prior to canalisation), whereas traveller, until the 1960s, generally denoted Irish or Irish-heritage travelling individuals and communities, after which the term also came to include the people misnamed "New Age Travellers" in the 1980s, which drew people from many different sedentary cultures onto "the road".


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> My point is they were all called 'gypsies'.



Only by the ignorant. Anyone who had any contact with them at all would know that you don't call a traveller a Gypsy, or _vice versa_ unless you're looking to eat your own teeth.



> It seems we now call them travellers for some strange reason -



Who's this "we" you speak of? The only people who do so are the ignorant and the media, two groups which often coincide.



> which is the thing they do least of all



Which is the thing that 120 years (arguably 450 years if we're being thorough) has been aimed at *preventing* them from doing.


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## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> Gypsy - from Eygyption, which is where the first Romani people to reach this country about 500 years ago...



...Very soon after which the first anti-Gypsy legislation appeared on the statute books.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

roctrevezel said:


> You must be mistaking me for someone else. I have never owned a Harley, nor would I.



Motorcycle and sidecar combination for you, isn't it?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Why is it important for you to know?



So he can call the police, have the perps rounded up and put on a bus to the local nick, probably.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> He finds someone who he thinks fits the picture then using devious means grasses them up. Or he kidnaps them, bungs them on a bus then drives dangerously out into the country.



A bus with "Helston" on the destination board, perchance?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

ExtraRefined said:


> This is where they're going wrong, you've got to just do it and then rally Guardian readers and anarkids to defend you when they send the bailiffs in.
> 
> The whole affair is a bit weird, usually the planning law ignoring lot are freeman-of-the-land types and get short shrift around here.
> 
> ...



They've hardly ignored it, dimwit. They've engaged with the process through every step.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

8ball said:


> Your prejudice against a noble and ancient tradition of itinerant musicianship has been noted.



The saxophone noodlings of Kenny G and "musicianship" have nothing to do with one another.

BTW, Saxophony is hardly ancient, the bloody thing was only invented in the late 19th century. It's barely "vintage", let alone "ancient".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

likesfish said:


> none of the men appearing on camera bit sus
> the fact the legal pitches appear to be empty a lot of the time (on holiday) when the site is facing eviction slightly odd behaviour.
> Personally I think the Sheridan clan is dodgy as a dodgy thing claims of getting housing benefit for illegal pitches seems dodgy as well if true.



It's a hard job getting HB for a legal pitch, let alone for one the LA doesn't list on it's books and doesn't appear on the electoral register or anywhere else as a legit address, so I suspect the stories are exactly that - stories.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> Fuck off yes (with your saxophone). Racist? I've no idea. One thing is for certain though, there are hundreds of families living at Dale Farm so your allegations against one family bear absolutely fuck all meaning on the wider context.
> 
> One person's criminal activity does not make the entire minority they belong to criminals too. So whilst you may or may not be racist, you certainly lack basic logical reasoning.



Perhaps kenny believes in collective guilt?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

Zabo said:


> Given you haven't seen the film how the fuck do you know it's an 'edited construction' of a vision of real life?



Film is a form of mediation between events and their representation, you dogs todger, of course it's an edited reconstruction of a vision of real life, it *can't* be anything else BUT that.



> You mean like your posts? You talk piss without any real knowledge. Care to expound on the dialogue between the director and family as to the 'style' of the film?



Hoist by your own _petard_.

In case you're having trouble working out how you did so, you used the word "style".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

Zabo said:


> I am specifically referring to the term she used which was "Ethnic Cleansing". No matter how I try I can not make the mental leap of moving people from Dale Farm because of planning regulations to that which happened in Kosovo
> 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8327210.stm
> 
> ...



Ever heard of "the Pale"? It was the result of ethnic cleansing. It didn't involve wholesale slaughter of the people of a region based on their ethnicity, but rather the "resettlement" of people based on their ethnicity from the Russian empire to a single area.

Ethnic cleansing doesn't have to include wholesale murder/genocide, it merely means that a ethicity or ethicities are removed from a geographical location.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

Zabo said:


> Best add to Adam Lee Davies's comment from Time Out:
> 
> "A gem of a documentary it’s a crisply shot, emotionally frank and genuinely moving glimpse into a way of life that has become _almost_ too fragile to continue."
> 
> ...



You don't really know what he's talking about, do you?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

JimW said:


> You don't have to see it to say it's an edited vision of real life, because all films are by their very nature, you daft sod. Odd hill to pick to die on.



Quite.


----------



## likesfish (Oct 3, 2011)

well looks like Essex council are finally getting their way


----------



## ddraig (Oct 3, 2011)

how is that then dear?
seeing as there is soooo much info in your post


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 3, 2011)

likesfish said:


> well looks like Essex council are finally getting their way


not really if you check the link i posted earlier....


----------



## Wilson (Oct 3, 2011)

likesfish said:


> well looks like Essex council are finally getting their way



Looks like you don't know arse from elbow


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 3, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Motorcycle and sidecar combination for you, isn't it?



I didn't know that Harley Davidson were branching out into boats.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 3, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> I didn't know that Harley Davidson were branching out into boats.



Roctrevezel isn't a Harley owner. He prefers Japanese thumpers, with a sidecar for his lady wife.

Hopefully his boat has a nice big Briggs & Stratton marine diesel engine, and a gun cabinet for the skipper to keep his tools for calming hysterical passangers in.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 4, 2011)

lies from MR ANGRY in Cardiff
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/cardif...ravellers-camp-in-rumney-park-91466-29520088/


> “I’ve tried to contact the council but they just move me from pillar to post and the police don’t want to know about it.”
> The man, who said his partner was afraid to venture close to the playing fields, added: “I did eventually manage to speak to the [council’s] parks department, but they said they wouldn’t do anything until they had moved on for fear their staff will be threatened.
> “We pay our taxes to the council to keep these amenities clean and they’re now refusing to do it.
> “People are staying away from the field because they don’t want any trouble. And it’s not just other dog-walkers, it’s also disrupting the football matches that are played on there. I’m banging my head against a brick wall – no-one seems to want to do anything about it.”
> ...


ooh, people are scared!
there does not seem to be a load of waste in that pic either


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 5, 2011)

@letdalefarmlive Dale Farm Solidarity
 No decision on #dalefarm judicial reviews today. Could be tomorrow, or as late as Friday afternoon.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 6, 2011)

THE JUDGMENT over the Dale Farm eviction has again been postponed. 

 Judge Mr Justice Ouseley was due to deliver his verdict on Friuday afternoon at the High Court. 

 It now will not happen until next Wednesday at the earliest.


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 6, 2011)

ooooo getting even more interesting.....l

etdalefarmlive NEW: #Basildon Council launches investigation into 3 decades of possible council corruption relating to #dalefarm scrapyard site
letdalefarmlive Unclear if #Basidon can go ahead with eviction even with high court say-so next week while corruption investigation ongoing. #dalefarm

*Ball may quit over eviction stalemate*


----------



## ddraig (Oct 6, 2011)

that would be something special!

can we have a non facebook link please?


----------



## AKA pseudonym (Oct 6, 2011)

ddraig said:


> that would be something special!
> 
> can we have a non facebook link please?


http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/loc....Ball_may_quit_over_eviction_stalemate/Canwe/


----------



## ddraig (Oct 6, 2011)

ta
lovely comments on here!
http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/echo/9292453.Dale_Farm_eviction_judgement_put_back_again/


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 7, 2011)

ddraig said:


> ta
> lovely comments on here!
> http://www.southendstandard.co.uk/news/echo/9292453.Dale_Farm_eviction_judgement_put_back_again/



Lovely indeed.

Still, at least those nice people are sat at their computers rather than taking part in neighbourhood Watch, eh?


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 12, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15163750



> Dale Farm eviction: Judge refuses residents' legal bid
> 
> Residents at the UK's largest travellers' site have lost a High Court challenge to halt their eviction.
> The group from Dale Farm in Essex had tried to stop the process with three applications for judicial review.
> ...


----------



## ddraig (Oct 12, 2011)

"quiet satisfaction"  what a total dickhead!

are some of the structures allowed to stay still?


----------



## Ground Elder (Oct 12, 2011)

ddraig said:


> are some of the structures allowed to stay still?


From memory - all the walls, fences and walkways, 5 plots which can still be lived on, the hard standing that Basildon Council put down and a building can't be touched. There's still a slim chance of permission for an appeal.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 12, 2011)

thanks GE


----------



## ddraig (Oct 14, 2011)

*Dale Farm residents granted appeal application at the High Court*

http://dalefarm.wordpress.com/2011/...rt/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter



> Today solicitors for residents at Dale Farm were granted a hearing at the High Court on Monday to apply for permission to appeal. Residents are appealing against the decision of Mr Justice Ouseley on Wednesday 11 October which gave permission for Basildon Council to evict Dale Farm. The appeal will be heard before Lord Justice Sullivan in Court 69 at 11am on Monday.





> Kathleen MacCarthy of Dale Farm said:
> “It’s illegal for us to live by the roadside and it’s illegal for us to live in our homes at Dale Farm. The government and the council are leaving us no legal means of continuing our way of life. We are tired of being made criminals by an unjust system that discriminates against us.”
> Ali Saunders of Dale Farm Solidarity said:
> “As the legal avenues for stopping this senseless eviction become exhausted, it becomes more and more important for people to show their support for the residents by coming to Dale Farm.”


----------



## Ground Elder (Oct 17, 2011)

Court of Appeal has rejected residents' right to a judicial review, so Basildon Council can start the eviction any time from now.


----------



## Deareg (Oct 17, 2011)

Shit.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 18, 2011)

Cunts.


So you can't live life on the road, and when you try and set up a semi-settled style community on a site instead, you're gonna get refused planning and then eventually kicked out of that too. I can see this outcome being exploited by other councils too, in conjunction with a tightening up of providing any sites.


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 18, 2011)

wankers


----------



## ddraig (Oct 18, 2011)

Balls loving the rhetoric with 'not giving notice' and 'suggest you and so called supporters leave in an orderly fashion'


----------



## dylans (Oct 19, 2011)

Eviction begins. Riot police and bailiffs are moving in


----------



## JimW (Oct 19, 2011)

Fuck it all.


----------



## andy2002 (Oct 19, 2011)

I really fucking hate what this country has become - I hope the leader of Basildon council falls under a bus today.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)

With all the fucking shit thats going on this country, that a council would rather spent a lot of money and effort at this time ripping apart a community who have little alternatives open to them.

Still, gunneradt and the like will no doubt be pleased for their house prices - because that's really so fucking important compared to people losing their homes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

cops with tasers at dale farm earlier


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> With all the fucking shit thats going on this country, that a council would rather spent a lot of money and effort at this time ripping apart a community who have little alternatives open to them.
> 
> Still, gunneradt and the like will no doubt be pleased for their house prices - because that's really so fucking important compared to people losing their homes.


the price of everything and the value of nothing. again.


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 19, 2011)

Poor bastards. Now what?


----------



## Garek (Oct 19, 2011)

Tony Ball has this to say:



> The pre-meditated and organised scenes of violence that we have already seen with protesters throwing rocks and bricks, threatening police with iron bars and setting fire to a caravan are shocking.
> These are utterly disgraceful scenes and demonstrate the fact some so-called supporters were always intent on violence.
> Nonetheless we are going to press on with this operation with our partners in a safe, dignified and humane way and will uphold the law."



As if an eviction like this isn't by its very nature a "premeditated and organised" violent act against people


----------



## peterkro (Oct 19, 2011)

Reporter "Jason" on Sky news is going to get the sack if he continues to try and report relatively reasonably and doesn't tow the rabid Sky line the rest are following.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 19, 2011)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-15357932
some footage on here.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)




----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

stephj said:


>


they don't look like bailiffs to me


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

Garek said:


> Tony Ball has this to say:
> 
> As if an eviction like this isn't by its very nature a "premeditated and organised" violent act against people


they should sack tony ball and get the nicer and more sensible johnny ball to be leader of basildon council


----------



## junglevip (Oct 19, 2011)

This is insane


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

junglevip said:


> This is insane


i don't see how johnny ball could be worse than tony ball


----------



## junglevip (Oct 19, 2011)

Your a no longer a funny guy


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

junglevip said:


> Your a funny guy


cheers 

now, back to the grim reality of life without johnny ball in charge of basildon


----------



## junglevip (Oct 19, 2011)

.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

junglevip said:


> Asshole


yeh? and why's that? because i'm not gnashing my teeth and dressing myself in sack cloth and wiping ashes over me?

it's a constant comfort to me i'm not a prissy little wanker like you.


----------



## junglevip (Oct 19, 2011)

.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

.


----------



## junglevip (Oct 19, 2011)

.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

[.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 19, 2011)

stephj said:


>



On BBC Breakfast this morning, the reporter from Dale Farm said that the police weren't there on behalf of the bailiffs, they were simply there to keep order.

Within a few minutes, a huge number of police were forcing their way into the camp .... with not a bailiff in sight!


----------



## junglevip (Oct 19, 2011)

.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:


> On BBC Breakfast this morning, the reporter from Dale Farm said that the police weren't there on behalf of the bailiffs, they were simply there to keep order.
> 
> Within a few minutes, a huge number of police were forcing their way into the camp .... with not a bailiff in sight!


yes, a point i  made rather more concisely above.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 19, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> yes, a point i made rather more concisely above.



Oh do fuck off you boring twat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Oh do fuck off you boring twat.


if you're done with your dull abuse, perhaps we can return to the topic of the thread.

unless you'd rather trash it - which wouldn't surprise me with your track record.


----------



## junglevip (Oct 19, 2011)

Pickman's model said:


> if you're done with your dull abuse, perhaps we can return to the topic of the thread.
> 
> unless you'd rather trash it - which wouldn't surprise me with your track record.



I withdraw my ealier insults.  I saw some images on the bbc, read your post and reacted.  Sorry


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 19, 2011)

fucking cunts.

Police tasering people and breaking in to the camp. Tony Ball doing his holier-than-thou act. The strong arm of a corrupt and immoral state in action.

So after the eviction - however long it takes - there will still be a travellers site at Dale Farm and the travellers will still own the land they are being evicted from. I don't imagine this will end soon...


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 19, 2011)

how much does tony ball get paid anyway?

cos all he seems to do is hang around dale farm in a hi viz jacket doing interviews. does he do any other work?


----------



## purenarcotic (Oct 19, 2011)

Sigh.  Yet another example of why I am ashamed to be a human being sometimes.


----------



## Garek (Oct 19, 2011)

purenarcotic said:


> Sigh. Yet another example of why I am ashamed to be a human being sometimes.



I don't think it is wise to treat this as some kind of judgement on human nature. I think the focus should be on the political system that allows and endorses this to happen.


----------



## purenarcotic (Oct 19, 2011)

Garek said:


> I don't think it is wise to treat this as some kind of judgement on human nature. I think the focus should be on the political system that allows and endorses this to happen.



True.  I was referring more I guess to the responses on this topic by a lot of people who seem incapable of working out that making children homeless is hardly an appropriate priority to have top of a council's list of things to do for the week.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2011)

Tony ballbag deserves to get a proper gypsy beating


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 19, 2011)

maybe we should go round and squat his gaff while he's out at the farm brown-nosing the media...


----------



## treelover (Oct 19, 2011)

Trolls are all over the Guardian CIF updates, very nasty comments

its the Battle of the Beanfield Mark 2, Gypsies don't seem to be liked by the police..


----------



## treelover (Oct 19, 2011)

It's the 80's again!


----------



## 74drew (Oct 19, 2011)

stephj said:


>


"We are the Village Green Preservation Society"


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 19, 2011)

someone on BBC 5Live radio talk show this morning, said "send them back to Ireland" which i think sums it up for me - plain and simple racism


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

junglevip said:


> I withdraw my ealier insults. I saw some images on the bbc, read your post and reacted. Sorry


these things happen - no worries


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 19, 2011)

Tony Ball is now suggesting that the protestors "have been stockpiling weapons" and is talking up the prospect of violence.

Luckily he's got a small crew of plucky riot cops to defend himself and the people of Basildon against the massed hoards of psychotic gypsies and armed revolutionaries.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 19, 2011)

15 min press briefing with police, ambulance and Basildon Council...

...followed by a 2 min interview with an articulate protestor who was in the middle of making some very good points when Sky News simply cut straight to an advert!


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 19, 2011)

Disgusting, what a sad day.


----------



## purenarcotic (Oct 19, 2011)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> someone on BBC 5Live radio talk show this morning, said "send them back to Ireland" which i think sums it up for me - plain and simple racism



That response is almost laughably ridiculous. QUICK, SEND THOSE DARKIES BACK TO AFRICA TOO WHILE YOU'RE AT IT. OH IF ONLY DIANA WERE HERE.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

You don't R5 to hear that, a number of posters have expressed identical views on this very thread.


----------



## purenarcotic (Oct 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You don't R5 to hear that, a number of posters have expressed identical views on this very thread.



Sigh, how depressing.


----------



## cemertyone (Oct 19, 2011)

Whats happening at the front gate??? there was loads of cops and no balliffs when i watched it today on the telly..
cops tasered two people..a traveller had a heart attcak and the twtas of this morning where reporting that it was the travellers
who were threating violence...you couldn`t make it up..very sad altogether


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 19, 2011)

The intellectually confused Ed West opines in the Torygraph



> *Dale Farm: it is the 'activists', not the travellers, who are the villains*
> 
> Personally I have nothing against the travellers, and appreciate that their children suffer serious bullying at schools, and that they're widely disliked. I just don’t especially admire their way of life, which contributes to very low life expectancy and education levels. It is a lifestyle similar to that many of our great-grandparents would have grown up in, and it’s one we should put behind us.
> 
> ...


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2011)

Broadly in agreement with the Mash on this.


----------



## dylans (Oct 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> You don't R5 to hear that, a number of posters have expressed identical views on this very thread.



 yeah, very depressing.


----------



## dylans (Oct 19, 2011)

I really hope no bailiffs suffer serious injuries today.


----------



## gabi (Oct 19, 2011)

> 12.26pm: Oh dear. Thom Goddard, councillor for Chingford Green ward in the London borough of Waltham Forest, has apologised for a tweet in which he wrote:
> 
> Can't help thinking that tower of scaffolding would make a good game of human Kerplunk​



cunt


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2011)

dylans said:


> I really hope no bailiffs suffer serious injuries today.



Especially the ones in black with the riot shields - let's hope they're not flammable.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2011)

dylans said:


> I really hope no bailiffs suffer serious injuries today.


 
It appears they are hiding behind seriously tooled up OB but one can hope that no faces are marked for later justice. Such would be horrific and against all sensible principles.


----------



## Dan U (Oct 19, 2011)

cemertyone said:


> Whats happening at the front gate??? there was loads of cops and no balliffs when i watched it today on the telly..
> cops tasered two people..a traveller had a heart attcak and the twtas of this morning where reporting that it was the travellers
> who were threating violence...you couldn`t make it up..very sad altogether



it wasn't a heart attack according to the dale farm twitter feed.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 19, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> *Dale Farm: it is the 'activists', not the travellers, who are the villains*
> 
> Personally I have nothing against the travellers, and appreciate that their children suffer serious bullying at schools, and that they're widely disliked. I just don’t especially admire their way of life, which contributes to very low life expectancy and education levels. It is a lifestyle similar to that many of our great-grandparents would have grown up in, and it’s one we should put behind us.
> 
> ...


that article is just so wrong on so many levels 

on another point, the travellers' legal rep is now on the telly saying Basildon and the police have breached a court order by not giving the necessary notifications 48hrs in advance and turning off the leccy. Could get interesting...these sorts of technicalities were what did for the eviction last time.


----------



## likesfish (Oct 19, 2011)

It was always going to end like this
   The threats of gas canisters and fighting to the end was going to be all the justification for the police to come in full force.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)

Do spare us, likesfish.


----------



## likesfish (Oct 19, 2011)

It was always going to end like this
   The threats of gas canisters and fighting to the end was going to be all the justification for the police to come in full force.
 the threats were made on TV and in the press so expecting the bailiffs and the police not to take the travellers at their word


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

likesfish said:


> It was always going to end like this
> The threats of gas canisters and fighting to the end was going to be all the justification for the police to come in full force.
> the threats were made on TV and in the press so expecting the bailiffs and the police not to take the travellers at their word


repeating yourself doesn't make it better you know.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 19, 2011)

Can anyone give me the link to an article posted (I think on this thread) giving the percentage of travellers actually able to get planning permission (I think it was around 10%).

Cheers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

i see level 2 public order trained cops from barnet, city of westminster and croydon were involved in the eviction.


----------



## rekil (Oct 19, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> Can anyone give me the link to an article posted (I think on this thread) giving the percentage of travellers actually able to get planning permission (I think it was around 10%).
> 
> Cheers.


That's wrong I think. Posts 945-950 have stuff on stats.


----------



## likesfish (Oct 19, 2011)

sunnysidedown said:


> Can anyone give me the link to an article posted (I think on this thread) giving the percentage of travellers actually able to get planning permission (I think it was around 10%).
> 
> Cheers.


the problem with that is your not comparing like with like 90% of planning is fairly minor stuff and a lot of major building is done by big firms with legal departments so they get the plans right first time. so fairly meaningless


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> how much does tony ball get paid anyway?
> 
> cos all he seems to do is hang around dale farm in a hi viz jacket doing interviews. does he do any other work?



He's doing the job that's most important to him - self-promotion. He's thinking how this will play in the shires when he's a Tory prospective parliamentary candidate. He knows the blue-rinses will squirt in their bloomers over this kind of stuff.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

likesfish said:


> the problem with that is your not comparing like with like 90% of planning is fairly minor stuff and a lot of major building is done by big firms with legal departments so they get the plans right first time. so fairly meaningless


do you have a source for this 90% claim? and having a legal department is no guarantee of getting things right, as a look at the number of solicitors taken through the courts each year should indicate.


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 19, 2011)

Brixton Hatter said:


> that article is just so wrong on so many levels
> 
> on another point, the travellers' legal rep is now on the telly saying Basildon and the police have breached a court order by not giving the necessary notifications 48hrs in advance and turning off the leccy. Could get interesting...these sorts of technicalities were what did for the eviction last time.


 
Why hasn't this case been heard by the European Court of Human Rights?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

nino_savatte said:


> Why hasn't this case been heard by the European Court of Human Rights?


has it been to the supreme court? if it hasn't then there's your answer.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

Let me get this right, £7 million+ of cuts from Basildon Council that have directly effected disabled services, community centres and other projects aimed at the vulnerable, council workers sacked (health workers in the area also facing compulsory redundancies as well as the 'normal' job losses from the recession that are driving down living condition for w/c people) and they spend £20 million (non-recuperable - roughtly 50/50 on council police) on this? £2 million of that straight in the pocket of the bailiffs and to make this even more laughable, a million quid to...wait for it..._house those evicted._


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 19, 2011)

cherrypicker full of riot cops now moving in on the scaffolding....


----------



## sunnysidedown (Oct 19, 2011)

copliker said:


> That's wrong I think. Posts 945-950 have stuff on stats.



just checked that cheers, I was a bit out there.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Let me get this right, £7 million+ of cuts from Basildon Council that have directly effected disabled services, community centres and other projects aimed at the vulnerable, council workers sacked (health workers in the area also facing compulsory redundancies as well as the 'normal' job losses from the recession that are driving down living condition for w/c people) and they spend £20 million (non-recuperable - roughtly 50/50 on council police) on this? £2 million of that straight in the pocket of the bailiffs and to make this even more laughable, a million quid to...wait for it..._house those evicted._


that's about the size of it.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Let me get this right, £7 million+ of cuts from Basildon Council that have directly effected disabled services, community centres and other projects aimed at the vulnerable, council workers sacked (health workers in the area also facing compulsory redundancies as well as the 'normal' job losses from the recession that are driving down living condition for w/c people) and they spend £20 million (non-recuperable - roughtly 50/50 on council police) on this? £2 million of that straight in the pocket of the bailiffs and to make this even more laughable, a million quid to...wait for it..._house those evicted._


yep - totally nuts.

But still, 92% of Sky News viewers agree with the forced eviction - so that's alright then!


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

ITV news just said 'police and bailiffs moved into to evict the *illegal travellers' *sure they didn't intend to but they just summed it up. Not an illegal occupation or whatever, but illegal 'travellers' - people who are illegal just by existing.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> ITV news just said 'police and bailiffs moved into to evict the *illegal travellers' *sure they didn't intend to but they just summed it up. Not an illegal occupation or whatever, but illegal 'travellers' - people who are illegal just by existing.



Ugh - very telling.


----------



## dylanredefined (Oct 19, 2011)

Well gypsies are always unpopular.Still its idiotic Council cant be seen to lose so force is used.Even after they win still going to be travellers there so nothing really changes .


----------



## purenarcotic (Oct 19, 2011)

The BBC have also called them 'illegal travellers'


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

Some pretty obvious police payback for the riots and the protests this time last year in there...


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

Damon Green on ITV, wow. Genuine wow.


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 19, 2011)

what is this country becoming.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2011)

I've felt all the way along that the more outrageous claims of 'ethnic cleansing' and worse haven't much helped the travellers' case, but some of this coverage makes me think a good chunk of the great British public and pretty much all the media would be well up for something along those lines.


----------



## Flanflinger (Oct 19, 2011)

Who the fuck was that bird Adam Boulton just tore to shreds on Sky ?

"lovely day for it " class.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> Who the fuck was that bird Adam Boulton just tore to shreds on Sky ?
> 
> "lovely day for it " class.



Well done on making yourself look an even bigger prick than Boulton.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 19, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> Who the fuck was that bird Adam Boulton just tore to shreds on Sky ?
> 
> "lovely day for it " class.


i dont think he tore her to shreds - he just made his prejudices plain for everyone to see. That 'lovely day for it' comment was well patronising - what a cnut.

Riot cops on the scaffold tower now, removing water, food and other supplies belonging to the protestors, and chucking them off the edge. Doesn't look like the 'neutral' police role. Still no bailiffs to be seen anywhere.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Damon Green on ITV, wow. Genuine wow.


what happened?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Oct 19, 2011)

Been listening to Boulton  for the past half hour or so. He doesn't even bother pretending to be an impartial news presenter does he? I thought he was a representative from Basildon council for the first ten minutes. What a dick.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Damon Green on ITV, wow. Genuine wow.



Missed it butchers, wha' happened?


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)

Pity we don't still have news reporters like Kim Sabido.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> what happened?





stephj said:


> Missed it butchers, wha' happened?



Basically, asked by anchor was there any violence, said yes there was and it was only one way, argued that _everyone knows this_ (at this stage all pretence of objective reporting had gone out the window), said that claims of tazers being used (we've all seen them) had to be investigated - basically read out a police statement rather than doing his job, no attempt to provide any balance whatsoever, reported as if he was part of the successful invading army, our boys won...


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 19, 2011)

oh dear.

they just said they used 'stun guns' on protestors on sky. i assume they are using a euphemism for taser?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2011)

'Stun gun' is a generic term for group of weapons that includes tasers.  Though they're probably using it cos it sounds a little less malevolent than the reality.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 19, 2011)

8ball said:


> 'Stun gun' is a generic term for group of weapons that includes tasers. Though they're probably using it cos it sounds a little less malevolent than the reality.


they went to say tasers tbf.


----------



## OneStrike (Oct 19, 2011)

Police trying to 'taze' a lady, a legal observer apparently.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 19, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> Police trying to 'taze' a lady, a legal observer apparently.



Nah...I saw a video of this moment filmed from the side/behind the lady in that pic...She even comments in the video about the taser being used. The trail goes straight past her to someone else. It was not aimed at her.


----------



## OneStrike (Oct 19, 2011)

Damon Green was being an arse on twitter last night, stating as fact that the Gypsies at Dale Farm didn't want the protesters there at all, he wouldn't reveal whether he had actually been to Dale Farm or personally spoke to anyone from there.


----------



## Flanflinger (Oct 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> Well done on making yourself look an even bigger prick than Boulton.



Find yourself another useless cause as this one is almost over.

The woman being interviewed was lying and Boulton was obviously highlighting that fact.


----------



## OneStrike (Oct 19, 2011)

Rutita1 said:


> Nah...I saw a video of this moment filmed from the side/behind the lady in that pic...She even comments in the video about the taser being used. The trail goes straight past her to someone else. It was not aimed at her.



Ok, it does look like it has gone either side of her!  I know it was from that spot that the man with long hair was zapped, i thought the copper was trigger happy.  Still, it looks like it was deployed unreasonably.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> Find yourself another useless cause as this one is almost over.
> 
> The woman being interviewed was lying and Boulton was obviously highlighting that fact.



Boulton has just so much integrity.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 19, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> Find yourself another useless cause as this one is almost over.


 
....and will you now find another thread to troll/be so bloody condscending on?


----------



## dylans (Oct 19, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> Who the fuck was that bird Adam Boulton just tore to shreds on Sky ?
> 
> "lovely day for it " class.


He didn't tear her to shreds at all. There is a difference between being an obnoxious cunt and winning an argument and he was just being an obnoxious cunt. "You are a privileged young woman". Yeah and you are an overpaid, massively untalented and completely shit studio anchor with an overrated sense of self importance, you cunt.


----------



## OneStrike (Oct 19, 2011)

She showed strong restraint to not say so^


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 19, 2011)

If anyone thinks some of the comments on this thread are out of order, I've just made the mistake of looking at the Dale Farm thread on Digital Spy, most of the posters there are taking great joy in what is happening, seriously ignorant and depressing stuff.


----------



## dylans (Oct 19, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> If anyone thinks some of the comments on this thread are out of order, I've just made the mistake of looking at the Dale Farm thread on Digital Spy, most of the posters there are taking great joy in what is happening, seriously ignorant and depressing stuff.


CIF too. It's like Orwells two minute hate on there.


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 19, 2011)

dylans said:


> CIF too. It's like Orwells two minute hate on there.



What's CIF?


----------



## dylans (Oct 19, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> What's CIF?


Comment is free on the guardian site


----------



## frogwoman (Oct 19, 2011)

fuck the guardian


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 19, 2011)

dylans said:


> Comment is free on the guardian site



Of course, I knew that, just wasn't thinking straight.


----------



## fractionMan (Oct 19, 2011)

It's amazing how much of the argument on such places boils down to (or is just directly stated) "the law's the law", which is (a) inaccurate, (b) stupidly oversimplified and (c) a really fucking moronic moral and pragmatic benchmark.


----------



## Garek (Oct 19, 2011)

fractionMan said:


> It's amazing how much of the argument on such places boils down to (or is just directly stated) "the law's the law", which is (a) inaccurate, (b) stupidly oversimplified and (c) a really fucking moronic moral and pragmatic benchmark.



That's what one of my bosses has just come up with. "Well you know allowing this would set a precedent". Cunt, but then he is a boss.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Oct 19, 2011)

Garek said:


> That's what one of my bosses has just come up with. "Well you know allowing this would set a precedent". Cunt, but then he is a boss.


What he means is it would set a precedent for travellers, and that's what scares the bigots. Never mind that wealthy individuals and corporations get away with it all the time.


----------



## disco_dave_2000 (Oct 19, 2011)

any idea what the protestors would be charged with by OB ?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2011)

frogwoman said:


> fuck the guardian



Hardly the Graun's fault that it's a beacon to right-wing trolls.

Or if it is, it's to its credit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2011)

disco_dave_2000 said:


> any idea what the protestors would be charged with by OB ?


 section 5 public disorder would be my guess


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 19, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> If anyone thinks some of the comments on this thread are out of order,* I've just made the mistake of looking at the Dale Farm thread on Digital Spy, most of the posters there are taking great joy in what is happening, seriously ignorant and depressing stuff.*



OMG - the bold bit of my post above has been quoted over on DS, in reply to a post linking to here as an example of 'Look what happens if you dare to disagree with the travellers on this site [urban]', which in itself was a reply to - 'I think the only people sympathising with them are the kinds of people who despise the police and Government no matter what they do. It's not a case really of sympathising with the travellers, they probably would hate them normally, it's just about being dicks to the police.' 

*waves to any bigoted racist cunts from DS (and any decent folk from DS) that followed the link*


----------



## RaverDrew (Oct 19, 2011)

DigitalSpy is full of shit eating nonces anyway, I wouldn't pay too much attention to anything they have to say.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> OMG - the bold bit of my post above has been quoted over on DS [...]



Quoted on digital spy by yourself?


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 19, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Quoted on digital spy by yourself?



No, why on earth would you think that?


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> No, why on earth would you think that?



Was only semi-serious. But does seem coincidental that a post you make here gets repeated elsewhere on the net that you personally get to see.


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 19, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Was only semi-serious. But does seem coincidental that a post you make here gets repeated elsewhere on the net that you personally get to see.



Not that coincidental considering I had posted here about the thread over there first, then went back over there to see how that thread was developing.

Took me by surprise that someone had posted a link to here and even more so that another poster replied by quoting my post here, but hardly surprising that I should see it under the circumstances.


----------



## DRINK? (Oct 19, 2011)

So they tried to resist eviction by setting fire to one of their caravans?

 Great idea.I wanted to fuck my hot neighbour, so I chopped off my cock.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)

^
That must rate as the most stupidest post I've seen on urban this year.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Not that coincidental considering I had posted here about the thread over there first, then went back over there to see how that thread was developing.
> 
> Took me by surprise that someone had posted a link to here and even more so that another poster replied by quoting my post here, but hardly surprising that I should see it under the circumstances.



I guess not. Don't use DS myself. I suspect it's populated by morons. I might have been quoted a zillion times there for all I know.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2011)

DRINK? said:


> So they tried to resist eviction by setting fire to one of their caravans?
> 
> Great idea.I wanted to fuck my hot neighbour, so I chopped off my cock.



Don't know anything about that but surely, if true, there's a few possible explanations; one of which being that the caravan may be no longer roadworthy. In which case the 'bailiffs' would end up destroying it themselves.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2011)

next2china, grow a pair instead of hanging about liking all the posts you are too shit eating to write yourself


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> Who the fuck was that bird Adam Boulton just tore to shreds on Sky ?
> 
> "lovely day for it " class.



Lovely day for you showing yourself up for an arsehole?
Isn't every day like that for you?


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> next2china, grow a pair instead of hanging about liking all the posts you are to shit eating to write yourself



Innit


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2011)

RaverDrew said:


> DigitalSpy is full of shit eating nonces anyway, I wouldn't pay too much attention to anything they have to say.


Don't most of them pimp for their female relatives during the times when they're not busy fucking children?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2011)

DRINK? said:


> So they tried to resist eviction by setting fire to one of their caravans?
> 
> Great idea.I wanted to fuck my hot neighbour, so I chopped off my cock.



If only you would, then you'd bleed to death and I wouldn't have to read any more of the tedious reactionary shite you write.


----------



## Athos (Oct 19, 2011)

DRINK? said:


> I wanted to fuck my hot neighbour, so I chopped off my cock.



Is she a lesbian?


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)

Athos said:


> Is she a lesbian?



If not before, then certainly after a come-on from DRINK?.


----------



## JimW (Oct 19, 2011)

DRINK? said:


> So they tried to resist eviction by setting fire to one of their caravans?
> 
> Great idea.I wanted to fuck my hot neighbour, so I chopped off my cock.


Wondered who'd had that tiny pair of nail scissors I was looking for.


----------



## Next2China (Oct 19, 2011)

Perhaps when this is all over you can support a real cause:


This was just a juvenile waste of time. Rich kids playing at being "Bad" "Hard", ridiculous.
oh, as for "liking" some one I'll like who the fuck I want to.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> oh, as for "liking" some one I'll like who the fuck I want to.



As long as you understand that it may not be reciprocated.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> Perhaps when this is all over you can support a real cause:
> 
> 
> This was just a juvenile waste of time. Rich kids playing at being "Bad" "Hard", ridiculous.
> oh, as for "liking" some one I'll like who the fuck I want to.




half the reason I was and still am against likes is cos of the like functions use by shit-eaters. Now if you've anything other to say than deciding what is and isn't a real cause?


----------



## Ground Elder (Oct 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> ^
> That must rate as the most stupidest post I've seen on urban this year.


There are some strong contenders on this thread.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

Wasn't Basildon itself the result of massive illegal building by eastenders  in the pre-wars years?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Wasn't Basildon itself the result of massive illegal building by eastenders in the pre-wars years?


Heh!


----------



## Next2China (Oct 19, 2011)

I wonder where some people got their romantic view of "oppressed" gypsies and their role with them, i would suggest children's programs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXYYePGTdwQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8BKFuQAeZo&feature=related


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> I wonder where some people got their romantic view of "oppressed" gypsies



I don't have a romanticised view of gypsies. I just have a particular disgust towards jumped-up arseholes disrupting the lives of people who want to be left alone.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2011)

or "history"


----------



## Ground Elder (Oct 19, 2011)

Where have your bizarre youtube links gone China?

e2a oh they are back now, but no less odd


----------



## Next2China (Oct 19, 2011)

.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

Even better. _Encore!_


----------



## Next2China (Oct 19, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> half the reason I was and still am against likes is cos of the like functions use by shit-eaters. Now if you've anything other to say than deciding what is and isn't a real cause?


Isn't that what "you" (plural) are doing/ have been doing, screaming at us to come down to this site and hopeless cause, like it is the most important thing going.


----------



## Next2China (Oct 19, 2011)

..


----------



## JimW (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> Isn't that what "you" (plural) are doing/ have been doing, screaming at us to come down to this site and hopeless cause, like it is the most important thing going.


It's a thread announcing the protest to them as is interested, in the forum for that, that you could have kept away from if it upset your weak sensibilities all that. You've made an effort to come in here and get outraged, you dumb prick.


----------



## Next2China (Oct 19, 2011)

Not outraged, Bored and dismissive. big Yawn, enjoy yourself Posh Boys down there, it will make you really Masculine, Honest


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> Isn't that what "you" (plural) are doing/ have been doing, screaming at us to come down to this site and hopeless cause, like it is the most important thing going.


 
Not so fucko- who are you speaking for an to who are you speaking?

free nelson mandela.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 19, 2011)

claphamboy said:
			
		

> If anyone thinks some of the comments on this thread are out of order,* I've just made the mistake of looking at the Dale Farm thread on Digital Spy, most of the posters there are taking great joy in what is happening, seriously ignorant and depressing stuff.*



Try being in a workplace (today) where a large and vocally opinionated minority of your coleagues, and that's abig group, think like that or worse, and have little hestitation in sounding off  

Unrestrained by any colleagues or bosses contradicting them  or at least telling them to shut up, anyway 

It's intimidating.

ETA : I fully appreciate that the above is very small beer compared to what those at the site are actually facing today, but it does tell you something about what a lot of mainstream-media-fed/less informed people think.


----------



## DotCommunist (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> Not outraged, Bored and dismissive. big Yawn, enjoy yourself Posh Boys down there, it will make you really Masculine, Honest


 
jog on then, back to bored and dismissive likes with you.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> it will make you really Masculine, Honest



Spot the projection!


----------



## JimW (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> Not outraged, Bored and dismissive. big Yawn, enjoy yourself Posh Boys down there, it will make you really Masculine, Honest


This might be a record for self-sought sustained boredom and dismissiveness. What a rich and full life you must lead to manage it


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 19, 2011)

Not been following this thread much ..............  at current spats ...


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> Not outraged, Bored and dismissive. big Yawn, enjoy yourself Posh Boys down there, it will make you really Masculine, Honest


Weren't you banned Think?


----------



## ddraig (Oct 19, 2011)

William of Walworth said:


> Try being in a workplace (today) where a large and vocally opinionated minority of your coleagues, and that's abig group, think like that or worse, and have little hestitation in sounding off
> 
> Unrestrained by any colleagues or bosses contradicting them  or at least telling them to shut up, anyway
> 
> ...


just tell/ask them not to
or say in a deep confused voice "hurhur, look, they're diff-er-ent tooo me and they're getting done over, hurhur"

had to stop a colleague before i even sat at my desk this morning, just looked directly at them and said 'seriously, don't' and he shut right up.
it is what most people think, they still need challenging tho, as they mostly haven't really thought about it.
did you challenge any of them?


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Weren't you banned Think?



Good spotting butchers - I knew there was something I recognised about this 'car crash'


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 19, 2011)

ddraig said:


> just tell/ask them not to
> or say in a deep confused voice "hurhur, look, they're diff-er-ent tooo me and they're getting done over, hurhur"
> 
> had to stop a colleague before i even sat at my desk this morning, just looked directly at them and said 'seriously, don't' and he shut right up.
> ...


 
Advice and support appreciated  but things would really kick off very unpleasantly
if I was to try anything of that kind, and I doubt I'd be able to make any kind of effective job of it if I did try 

I'm SO in the minority politically in my particular work zone  -- ie in not having my politics spoonfed me by Mail/Sun headlines ...


----------



## ddraig (Oct 19, 2011)

still about you then.
how would they kick off? have they before or just something you perceive and fear? how far would they go and kick off before it escalated and a manager had to step in? have you no policies there on discrimination etc? 

it is hard, i have done it and been alienated, years later i still am and don't bother with them
fuck them, they are in the wrong


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2011)

My colleagues keep their mouths shut around me nowadays


----------



## Flanflinger (Oct 19, 2011)

http://soundoff.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=652


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

Seriously? Trying to drum up interest in your shit board from 20 years ago?


----------



## Deareg (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> oh, as for "liking" some one I'll like who the fuck I want to.



Fuckin Hardcore.


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 19, 2011)

Poor flanfinger has only got 36 members on his board 

He needs some more posters.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 19, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> http://soundoff.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=652



That thread is Hughj.

And appears to consist of the same person and their other two aliases.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> Poor flanfinger has only got 36 members on his board
> 
> He needs some more posters.



Perhaps he's hoping we will start trolling it and give him something to do?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 19, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> http://soundoff.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=652


 
Dang! I bet you regret that now!


----------



## DrRingDing (Oct 19, 2011)

There's still a call for more people on site, it's not quite over yet.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> Perhaps when this is all over you can support a real cause:
> 
> 
> This was just a juvenile waste of time. Rich kids playing at being "Bad" "Hard", ridiculous.
> oh, as for "liking" some one I'll like who the fuck I want to.




Wow, you're so "bad", so "hard".

As for real causes, of course I'll donate toward your euthanasia.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> I wonder where some people got their romantic view of "oppressed" gypsies and their role with them, i would suggest children's programs:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXYYePGTdwQ
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8BKFuQAeZo&feature=related



I don't have a romanticised view of either travellers or Gypsies (they're not the same thing, Brainiac). I have, however, known people from both groups, and never had any problems with them.

What about you? Ever broken bread with a traveller or a Rom?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> Isn't that what "you" (plural) are doing/ have been doing, screaming at us to come down to this site and hopeless cause, like it is the most important thing going.



No-one has screamed at you. You appear to have a hard time separating reality from your fantasies.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> Not outraged, Bored and dismissive. big Yawn, enjoy yourself Posh Boys down there...



Ooh, a little bit of inaccurate class prejudice! I bet you're one of those "I got where I am today of my own bat" idiots.



> it will make you really Masculine, Honest



Whereas nothing, especially not flailing mindlessly at people on the internet, will make you masculine, you milksop.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2011)

Flanflinger said:


> http://soundoff.boardhost.com/viewtopic.php?id=652



Wow, a handful (and it really is just a handful) of plums giving each other reach-arounds.. How very...well, crap.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 19, 2011)

stephj said:


> Poor flanfinger has only got 36 members on his board
> 
> He needs some more posters.



He needs a life even more.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> I wonder where some people got their romantic view of "oppressed" gypsies and their role with them, i would suggest children's programs:



It's the Somalian Pirates/Captain Pugwash debacle all over again


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 19, 2011)

Nice of the BBC to have their anti-Roma documentary to coincide with these events...


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 19, 2011)

Next2China said:


> I wonder where some people got their romantic view of "oppressed" gypsies and their role with them, i would suggest children's programs:
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXYYePGTdwQ
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8BKFuQAeZo&feature=related


i wonder where people get their fucked up ideas of the police being there to help them


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

Paxman on newsnight opens with 'for so-called travellers' - great research.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 19, 2011)

Checked facebook today fully expecting to be defriending at least _someone_.  Only one post mentioning it from one person (who I wouldn't really have expected it from) calling the police a bunch of brutal scumbags.  Given the variety of views amongst the people I am facebook 'friends' with, I'm heartened by the evidence that the rabid splutterings on the Telegraph website and it's ilk aren't exactly representative.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 19, 2011)

naked paxman! fuckin ell
some impartiality at all?
proper archetypal tory too!


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 19, 2011)

Paxman is going for this tonight like wanted to be there with the police and bailiffs this morning. This is the same paxman who kept two romanians living above his garage as servants and paid them under the Min wage as a result.


----------



## spartacus mills (Oct 19, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Paxman is going for this tonight like wanted to be there with the police and bailiffs this morning. This is the same paxman who kept two romanians living above his garage as servants and paid them under the Min wage as a result.



..and you could clearly hear him sniggering off camera with the Tory toff while the UN woman was speaking. Pigs.


----------



## D'wards (Oct 19, 2011)

"Whatever your stance on travellers, we can all enjoy the sight of politically naive white middle class dreadlocked kids being tasered"

Excellent tweet circulating earlier


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2011)

D'wards said:


> "Whatever your stance on travellers, we can all enjoy the sight of politically naive white middle class dreadlocked kids being tasered"
> 
> Excellent tweet circulating earlier



Yeah, there's nothing like using prejudice to justify police brutality to brighten up your day.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 19, 2011)

dp


----------



## D'wards (Oct 19, 2011)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah, there's nothing like using prejudice to justify police brutality to brighten up your day.



Oh cheer up, miseryguts


----------



## dylanredefined (Oct 20, 2011)

D'wards said:


> "Whatever your stance on travellers, we can all enjoy the sight of politically naive white middle class dreadlocked kids being tasered"
> 
> Excellent tweet circulating earlier


  Tbh their are a lot more people I'd perfer to see tasered first.I do feel a little bad that I sniggered at that though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Oct 20, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Nice of the BBC to have their anti-Roma documentary to coincide with these events...


Sickening, isn't it?


----------



## Flanflinger (Oct 20, 2011)

danny la rouge said:


> Sickening, isn't it?



Yeah it was all made up.


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 20, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Nice of the BBC to have their anti-Roma documentary to coincide with these events...


Aye, fucking disgraceful.


----------



## Kidda (Oct 20, 2011)

ITV news have just had a piece about how the divide between the ''protesters'' and ''the travellers'' is ''getting wider''. With the former not wanting to leave whilst the latter are prepared ''to let sleeping dogs lie'' and are preparing to leave.


----------



## tufty79 (Oct 20, 2011)

D'wards said:


> "Whatever your stance on travellers, we can all enjoy the sight of politically naive white middle class dreadlocked kids being tasered"
> 
> Excellent tweet circulating earlier




not funny.


----------



## purenarcotic (Oct 20, 2011)

At 4.45 pm today, Dale Farm residents and supporters jointly walked off the site to begin the next stage of the battle against eviction which has been waged across courts, barricades and protests. The decision to leave together was made in order to show the unity of the residents and supporters after two months of supporter presence at Dale Farm through Camp Constant.
Resident Mary Sheridan said, “Leaving with supporters today is about our own dignity and our appreciation of the support we’ve received. We’re leaving together as one family, and we are proud of that- you can’t take away our dignity”.
http://dalefarm.wordpress.com/


----------



## Deareg (Oct 22, 2011)

Anyone know where they ended up or whether they managed to stay together?


----------



## where to (Oct 22, 2011)

this story went very cold, very quickly. probably Gaddafi, but still odd.  the media narrative really struggled with the walkout - they must of been gutted!


----------



## Ground Elder (Oct 22, 2011)

At the moment I understand most people have moved over onto the side with planning permission, or are on the remaining plots on the disputed side which Basildon are currently unable to evict. Bailiffs are still there and are alleged to be throwing their weight around trying to intimidate people out of the latter.


----------



## claphamboy (Oct 25, 2011)

Urban's very own 'bouncer_the_dog' has got a 1/2 page cartoon on the subject of Dale Farm published today as part of the 'i' newspaper's competition to find new cartoonists. 







See this thread -
*My cartoon is featured in the 'i' paper today...*


----------



## ddraig (Oct 27, 2011)

BBC1 now - the big eviction


----------



## stethoscope (Oct 27, 2011)

Violent cunts of the state.


----------



## Kidda (Oct 27, 2011)

ddraig said:


> BBC1 now - the big eviction


 
sickening. just sickening.


----------



## ddraig (Oct 27, 2011)

yes, really really very very bad


----------



## Kidda (Oct 27, 2011)

That was extremely uncomfortable and upsetting to watch.

The neighbour Len Gridley came across as a complete sociopath.


----------



## purenarcotic (Oct 27, 2011)

The brutality was a complete disgrace. Anybody who watched that and still agrees with the eviction has absolutely no heart.


----------



## Orang Utan (Oct 27, 2011)

yeah, what a dickhead len gridley was.
now they've gone, his life now means nothing though, if that's a consolation.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 27, 2011)

All he cares about is his imagined increase in the value of his property.


----------



## Ground Elder (Oct 27, 2011)

A property that even after the (on-going) eviction is still next to a large Traveller site.


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 27, 2011)

Good point!


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 27, 2011)

Them gypo's are makin the pwice of ma 'ause go darrrn. I'm gonna get ma fackin shooter mate - that'll put the pwice back up!

That doc wasn't too bad, although I was surprised when they said the Dale Farm residents took their case to the European Court and lost. That is simply wrong.


----------



## OneStrike (Oct 27, 2011)

I must say, I found that very difficult to watch, it was all so very sad.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 27, 2011)

OneStrike said:


> I must say, I found that very difficult to watch, it was all so very sad.



Made me really angry. The cops and bailiffs have a fundamental part of their souls missing to be able to carry that out.


----------



## Kidda (Oct 27, 2011)

The way they were waving those tasers around was really disturbing.


----------



## andy2002 (Oct 27, 2011)

I saw the BBC programme about five minutes after reading a truly repulsive anti-traveller tirade on Facebook from a so-called 'socialist'. Sometimes I could just weep for the sheer inhuman cuntishness of some people, I really could.


----------



## gunneradt (Oct 27, 2011)

urbanites still wallowing in the realisation that they are just the 8%.

#outoftouchwiththerestoftheuk


----------



## Citizen66 (Oct 27, 2011)

If only 8% of the population aren't cunts, I'm pleased to be in the minority.


----------



## andy2002 (Oct 28, 2011)

gunneradt said:


> urbanites still wallowing in the realisation that they are just the 8%.
> 
> #outoftouchwiththerestoftheuk



I suspect that many of the 92% would have changed their minds had they sat and watched the BBC TV show last night.


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 28, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> All he cares about is his imagined increase in the value of his property.


Ironic really, because it struck me that he had no intention of selling.


----------



## dylans (Oct 28, 2011)

Kidda said:


> That was extremely uncomfortable and upsetting to watch.
> 
> The neighbour Len Gridley came across as a complete sociopath.


That cunt was filmed committing arson and then arrested attempting to commit armed violence and then given bail and let off with a slap on the wrist?



> A report will be submitted to the Essex Police Fire Arms Department for consideration.
> Mr Gridley was bailed until October 23 pending further enquiries.



A report? If he had been a black inner city drug dealer he would have been surrounded by armed response teams and shot.


----------



## _angel_ (Oct 28, 2011)

.


----------



## Jeff Robinson (Oct 28, 2011)

rEed teh Gardiern.


----------



## _angel_ (Oct 28, 2011)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Nice of the BBC to have their anti-Roma documentary to coincide with these events...


Did we watch the same thing? I didn't notice it being particularly anti Roma, they weren't all one sided. Also the Dale Farm are not Roma are they?


----------



## purenarcotic (Oct 28, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> Did we watch the same thing? I didn't notice it being particularly anti Roma, they weren't all one sided. Also the Dale Farm are not Roma are they?



Last week they had a documentary about gypsy children begging.  I didn't watch it but apparently it was as usual very one sided and anti-traveller.

As I understand it the Dale Farm travellers are Irish


----------



## nino_savatte (Oct 28, 2011)

purenarcotic said:


> Last week they had a documentary about gypsy children begging. I didn't watch it but apparently it was as usual very one sided and anti-traveller.
> 
> As I understand it the Dale Farm travellers are Irish


Indeed it was and the media love to conflate Roma with Irish travellers because, in the mind of the anti-ziganist, they're one and the same.


----------



## _angel_ (Oct 28, 2011)

purenarcotic said:


> Last week they had a documentary about gypsy children begging. I didn't watch it but apparently it was as usual very one sided and anti-traveller.
> 
> As I understand it the Dale Farm travellers are Irish


I didn't get it being anti traveller. FWIW weren't most of the people featured in it actually living in houses?


----------



## purenarcotic (Oct 28, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> I didn't get it being anti traveller. FWIW weren't most of the people featured in it actually living in houses?



Not seen it so can't comment; only saw the adverts for it and heard a few people's reviews of it.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Oct 28, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> yeah, what a dickhead len gridley was.
> now they've gone, his life now means nothing though, if that's a consolation.


His next mission is to sue Basildon Council for assorted fuck ups...that should keep him happy for another 5 years or so.

He struck me as the kind of guy who isn't really happy unless there's something to get really angry about!

I couldn't believe the police just watched him commit arson...


----------



## OneStrike (Nov 2, 2011)

Some activists that you might know fooled the media when it came to someones release from court today, quite funny imo, skip to 10.45, its only short 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b016p4lp/Look_East_East_02_11_2011/


----------



## coley (Nov 5, 2011)

Ah all the luvvies still defending the pikeys rights, nice to see U75 still promoting the alternative reality.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 5, 2011)

coley said:


> Ah all the luvvies still defending the pikeys rights, nice to see U75 still promoting the alternative reality.



Feel free to do the right thing...

...and fuck off.


----------



## laptop (Nov 5, 2011)

dylans said:


> That cunt was filmed committing arson



Ermmm...



> [Gridley] storms-off and releases gallons of raw sewage from a tank to stink them out.
> 
> When that fails, he hurls the diesel onto his own fence and sets it alight.
> 
> ...


 
Funny if not so sad...

(Diesel is non-flammable, in the sense that if you pour it on a fire you have a _pretty good_ chance of putting the fire out.)


----------



## coley (Nov 5, 2011)

Kidda said:


> The way they were waving those tasers around was really disturbing.


True, should have been rubber bullets and CS gas


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2011)

Hands up who is _shocked_ by these shocking sentiments. Everyone? Ok, job done coley - we're all _shocked_. Off you go now. Have a little _sleep_. You've _earned_ it.


----------



## Kidda (Nov 5, 2011)

coley said:


> True, should have been rubber bullets and CS gas


Do you write the jokes in Christmas crackers?


----------



## coley (Nov 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Hands up who is _shocked_ by these shocking sentiments. Everyone? Ok, job done coley - we're all _shocked_. Off you go now. Have a little _sleep_. You've _earned_ it.


Shocked? I hope not, just pointing what most of the population thinks about dale farm and its former inhabitants, the fluffy bunnies on here are entitled to their opinions and I am sure they will be offering these badly done to 'romas' a place in their gardens.


----------



## coley (Nov 5, 2011)

Kidda said:


> Do you write the jokes in Christmas crackers?


If I did this place would be a veritable 'mine' of humour


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2011)

The Voice of The People.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2011)

coley said:


> Shocked? I hope not, just pointing what most of the population thinks about dale farm and its former inhabitants, the fluffy bunnies on here are entitled to their opinions and I am sure they will be offering these badly done to 'romas' a place in their gardens.


Oh no stop! The _truth_ is is just too much to bear.


----------



## coley (Nov 5, 2011)

butchersapron said:


> Oh no stop! The _truth_ is is just too much to bear.


I know, terrible aint it, but its nice to know the 'enlightened' have their own little world, safe from the Sun, Daily Wail readers etc


----------



## Kidda (Nov 5, 2011)

coley said:


> Shocked? I hope not, just pointing what most of the population thinks about dale farm and its former inhabitants, the fluffy bunnies on here are entitled to their opinions and I am sure they will be offering these badly done to 'romas' a place in their gardens.


Blimey, must have taken you ages to survey the whole of the country to find that little nugget out. Are you a sociologist?


----------



## smokedout (Nov 5, 2011)

is youtube down this weekend?


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Kidda said:


> Blimey, must have taken you ages to survey the whole of the country to find that little nugget out. Are you a sociologist?


No survey needed, just a pair of eyes and ears, bonnie lad, but you have to remove the rose tinted and the ear muffs first


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> No survey needed, just a pair of eyes and ears, bonnie lad, but you have to remove the rose tinted and the ear muffs first


Your experience differs from mine coley, as most people that I have spoken too have been quite sympathetic to the travellers, not only those at Dale farm but travellers in general who's lifestyle have been restricted by bitter little Englanders like yourself.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Your experience differs from mine coley, as most people that I have spoken too have been quite sympathetic to the travellers, not only those at Dale farm but travellers in general who's lifestyle have been restricted by bitter little Englanders like yourself.


So you decry honesty and support illegality then, do you?


----------



## ddraig (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> So you decry honesty and support illegality then, do you?


??? can you be a bit clearer please?
i presume you are one of the "silent majority" who live "in the real world"
do you think the council lying about the site being greenbelt land is honest?
do you think the council barring media from the site is honest?
do you think spending £18million on an eviction only to spend much more moving people around is honest?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> So you decry honesty and support illegality then, do you?


 
when did you stop beating your wife?


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

ddraig said:


> ??? can you be a bit clearer please?
> i presume you are one of the "silent majority" who live "in the real world"
> do you think the council lying about the site being greenbelt land is honest?
> do you think the council barring media from the site is honest?
> do you think spending £18million on an eviction only to spend much more moving people around is honest?


We all know how corrupt Councils are but even they pale into nothing compared to Pikeys.
Why should I pay my rates, why should I take many pains with planning permission, why should I obey the law when there's people like this scum and people like you supporting the lawless. 
You'd soon change your tune if this lot parked next to you. These people are scum, lowlifes and when they're not stealing the contents of your garden, shed, house they're busy desecrating any land they infest with car engines, bomfires, rabid dogs, screaming feral kids and feckless, violent scroungers who think the world owes them a living. They should have been burned out.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> when did you stop beating your wife?


After I got off yours.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> So you decry honesty and support illegality then, do you?


I support morality, equality and justice.

Just because something is made illegal in the eyes of men does not mean that it is morally wrong.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> We all know how corrupt Councils are but even they pale into nothing compared to Pikeys.
> Why should I pay my rates, why should I take many pains with planning permission, why should I obey the law when there's people like this scum and people like you supporting the lawless.
> You'd soon change your tune if this lot parked next to you. These people are scum, lowlifes and when they're not stealing the contents of your garden, shed, house they're busy desecrating any land they infest with car engines, bomfires, rabid dogs, screaming feral kids and feckless, violent scroungers who think the world owes them a living. They should have been burned out.



Bye then.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2011)

Speak ur branes


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> We all know how corrupt Councils are but even they pale into nothing compared to Pikeys.
> Why should I pay my rates, why should I take many pains with planning permission, why should I obey the law when there's people like this scum and people like you supporting the lawless.
> You'd soon change your tune if this lot parked next to you. These people are scum, lowlifes and when they're not stealing the contents of your garden, shed, house they're busy desecrating any land they infest with car engines, bomfires, rabid dogs, screaming feral kids and feckless, violent scroungers who think the world owes them a living. They should have been burned out.


You are one sick child.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Bye then.


You going? Save opening a window I suppose.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> You are one sick child.


And I suppose you would give law breakers medals would you?
That seems sick to me. Child.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> You going? Save opening a window I suppose.



Or closing a window in the case of the internet. Now can we move beyond sweeping generalisations or is that all your little mind can muster?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> And I suppose you would give law breakers medals would you?
> That seems sick to me. Child.


Bitter and twisted much?


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I support morality, equality and justice.
> 
> Just because something is made illegal in the eyes of men does not mean that it is morally wrong.


What a load of cobblers. That was in this week's Beano,was it?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> What a load of cobblers. That was in this week's Beano,was it?


Cobblers in what way?


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Bitter and twisted much?


Neither. Naive and dense much?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> Neither. Naive and dense much?


Are you really denying that you are bitter and twisted?


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Cobblers in what way?


In the way that cobblers are. A load of.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> In the way that cobblers are. A load of.


So you can't answer.

You do know that cobblers make shoes, don't you?


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Are you really denying that you are bitter and twisted?


No need to deny something one is innately not, you clown.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> So you can't answer.


You mean _you_ cannot comprehend. Your problem.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> You mean _you_ cannot comprehend. Your problem.



How can he comprehend an answer that you're yet to give?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> You mean _you_ cannot comprehend. Your problem.


You can't answer you bitter cunt because you are incapable of expressing yourself beyond bitterness and hatred.


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> We all know how corrupt Councils are but even they pale into nothing compared to Pikeys.
> Why should I pay my rates, why should I take many pains with planning permission, why should I obey the law when there's people like this scum and people like you supporting the lawless.
> You'd soon change your tune if this lot parked next to you. These people are scum, lowlifes and when they're not stealing the contents of your garden, shed, house they're busy desecrating any land they infest with car engines, bomfires, rabid dogs, screaming feral kids and feckless, violent scroungers who think the world owes them a living. They should have been burned out.



Who is this cunt?


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> How can he comprehend an answer that you're yet to give?


Thought you'd gone, turnip head.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> You can't answer you bitter cunt because you are incapable of expressing yourself beyond bitterness and hatred.


Can you see the irony in your post? LMFAO!!


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Who is this cunt?


Your Mama


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> Thought you'd gone, turnip head.



You'll be gone soon enough.


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> Your Mama


Time for your meds mum


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> We all know how corrupt Councils are but even they pale into nothing compared to Pikeys.



I would just like to say FUCK OFF, before you actually get fucked-off from here.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Time for your meds mum


See Page 5, item 7 from "Timeless Forum replies for those who can't think up their own"


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

As dull as dish water.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> I would just like to say FUCK OFF, before you actually get fucked-off from here.


Hey it's Cockney Wanker!


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Nov 6, 2011)

Oh dear. Frankly there have been thousands of Alfs venting their anger and bigotry all over local forums since the dale Farm story started, I've had a few run ins with a few myself, couple of weeks ago we had a traveller family move in to a local site and anyone would think it was akin to the arrival of bubonic plague! Of course they always end up asking if I'd like to have them move into my garden.

It's Sunday, maybe Alf still hasn't found anything else to do since the NOTW folded.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> You'll be gone soon enough.


By you or Aunt Sally? Dicknose.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

Yeah. Because it says Clapham in his name that must mean he was born within the sound of the Bow Bells, like duh.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> Hey it's Cockney Wanker!



Now, just how would you know I am a Cockney?

Who is this? ern?


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> By you or Aunt Sally? Dicknose.



Enjoy it while it lasts.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Oh dear. Frankly there have been thousands of Alfs venting their anger and bigotry all over local forums since the dale Farm story started, I've had a few run ins with a few myself, couple of weeks ago we had a traveller family move in to a local site and anyone would think it was akin to the arrival of bubonic plague! Of course they always end up asking if I'd like to have them move into my garden.
> 
> It's Sunday, maybe Alf still hasn't found anything else to do since the NOTW folded.


Another one not living in the real world. So you'd like your amenties ruined? Your trees chopped for bomfires? Your possessions stolen? That's fine with you is it? You have no idea tiny person.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Now, just how would you know I am a Cockney?
> 
> Who is this? ern?


Well you _sound_ like a know all twat.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> So you'd like your amenties ruined? Your trees chopped for bomfires? Your possessions stolen?



Ah, you're on about the Tories now. Good work.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Enjoy it while it lasts.


Bye then. LMAO!


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2011)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Oh dear. Frankly there have been thousands of Alfs venting their anger and bigotry all over local forums since the dale Farm story started, I've had a few run ins with a few myself, couple of weeks ago we had a traveller family move in to a local site and anyone would think it was akin to the arrival of bubonic plague! *Of course they always end up asking if I'd like to have them move into my garden.*
> 
> It's Sunday, maybe Alf still hasn't found anything else to do since the NOTW folded.



They wouldn't want my garden, as we have the desired Deborough camp up the road in one direction and a number of smaller sites five mins drive away in Burton Latimer. Practically on the doorstep.

Obviously  I am posting from atop a pile of rubbish while evil travellers steal all my other worldy goods and burn the whole town down.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Ah, you're on about the Tories now. Good work.


Ah, that says it all. Liberal lefty numpty who knows nothing about the real world.
You wait til u start shaving.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> We all know how corrupt Councils are but even they pale into nothing compared to Pikeys.
> Why should I pay my rates, why should I take many pains with planning permission, why should I obey the law when there's people like this scum and people like you supporting the lawless.
> You'd soon change your tune if this lot parked next to you. These people are scum, lowlifes and when they're not stealing the contents of your garden, shed, house they're busy desecrating any land they infest with car engines, bomfires, rabid dogs, screaming feral kids and feckless, violent scroungers who think the world owes them a living. They should have been burned out.


i pity you, little man


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> Ah, that says it all. Liberal lefty numpty who knows nothing about the real world.
> You wait til u start shaving.



lolz.  I'll wait for you to grow some active neurons first.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> They wouldn't want my garden, as we have the desired Deborough camp up the road in one direction and a number of smaller sites five mins drive away in Burton Latimer. Practically on the doorstep.
> 
> Obviously I am posting from atop a pile of rubbish while evil travellers steal all my other worldy goods and burn the whole town down.


Did you beat the seagulls getting there?


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

ddraig said:


> i pity you, little man


LMAO this from a thickcocked Welsh sheepshagger? lmao!


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> lolz.  I'll wait for you to grow some active neurons first.


You're already losing, I'll wait til u shave. Boy.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> You're already losing, I'll wait til u shave. Boy.



Losing what? I can't be losing the debate as you're yet to make any kind of meaningful point beyond revealing yourself to be an utter dickwad.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Losing what? I can't be losing the debate as you're yet to make any kind of meaningful point beyond revealing yourself to be an utter dickwad.


Any _other_ laws you think pikeys should be exempt from following, unlike decent people?


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> Any _other_ laws you think pikeys should be exempt from following, unlike decent people?



Define decent.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Define decent.


Oh dear, another pseudo-philosopher who, when faced with an absolute, resorts to deflection.
Which part of "breaking the law" do you not understand?


----------



## Ground Elder (Nov 6, 2011)

> Of course they always end up asking if I'd like to have them move into my garden.


This has become the new "why don't you move to Russia".  I like that Alf uses an initial capital when he writes pikey


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> Oh dear, another pseudo-philosopher who, when faced with an absolute, resorts to deflection.
> Which part of "breaking the law" do you not understand?



You mentioned 'decent' people. I wanted you to define what that is. People who live in houses break laws too. Not sure if you were aware of that.
But if uprooting children and effectively making them homeless is what constitutes this law then that law has to surely be questioned. Or do you just blindly follow whatever you're told like a good little cock head?


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Ground Elder said:


> This has become the new "why don't you move to Russia". I like that Alf uses an initial capital when he writes pikey


You are in position to lecture anyone on grammar reading your juvenile, mistake-ridden crap.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> You mentioned 'decent' people. I wanted you to define what that is. People who live in houses break laws too. Not sure if you were aware of that.
> But if uprooting children and effectively making them homeless is what constitutes this law then that law has to surely be questioned. Or do you just blindly follow whatever you're told like a good little cock head?


I asked you what other laws you think the pikeys should be allowed to break. You latched onto the tenuous part of a description to those who are not pikeys. Still, if you haven't got a clue that is not surprising.
Homeless? You dupe! Most of that lot have homes in bogtrotter land. They were offered alternative homes, no one was being made homeless. And you'd have to think calling yourself a "traveller" might mean you'd be ok er..travelling? You utter spanner.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> I asked you what other laws you think the pikeys should be allowed to break. You latched onto the tenuous part of a description to those who are not pikeys. Still, if you haven't got a clue that is not surprising.
> Homeless? You dupe! Most of that lot have homes in bogtrotter land. They were offered alternative homes, no one was being made homeless. And you'd have to think calling yourself a "traveller" might mean you'd be ok er..travelling? You utter spanner.



Do they refer to themselves as 'travellers' or is that an abstract term created by an external influence? They seemed pretty settled where they were to me.


----------



## Lock&Light (Nov 6, 2011)

If no-one replied to AlfHookham he'd soon slink off back to his pit.


----------



## Citizen66 (Nov 6, 2011)

He'll be banned soon enough I'd wager.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Define decent.



Bankers?


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> He'll be banned soon enough I'd wager.



Me too, mods are online now, so any minute now I reckon.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 6, 2011)

fat lot of good the eviction has done so far eh!
http://news.sky.com/home/uk-news/article/16104402


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> Do they refer to themselves as 'travellers' or is that an abstract term created by an external influence? They seemed pretty settled where they were to me.


Yes, they call themselves Travellers.
Next.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> He'll be banned soon enough I'd wager.


If it was for bad language there'd be no one here.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

Lock&Light said:


> If no-one replied to AlfHookham he'd soon slink off back to his pit.


If no one replied to you would any one know? Or care?


----------



## ddraig (Nov 6, 2011)

do you have any proof for your claims or first hand experience?
or is it all "bloke down pub", "my brother in law's mate" etc?

maybe the daily mail forums would be better suited for your blinkered view..


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2011)

is this cunt still banging on?


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

ddraig said:


> do you have any proof for your claims or first hand experience?
> or is it all "bloke down pub", "my brother in law's mate" etc?
> 
> maybe the daily mail forums would be better suited for your blinkered view..


I don't frequent pubs, nor do I read the Daily Mail. I do however gave first hand experience of these thieving, low life, scrounging scum, yes. You obviously haven't because I've yet to see anyone delight in having someone else's sewage coursing through their garden.


----------



## AlfHookham (Nov 6, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> is this cunt still banging on?


If you addressing me kindly be brave enough to do so 1 to 1.
And what sort of threads would _you_ have? Ones that have no replies? You clown.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2011)

I see it is.


----------



## Lock&Light (Nov 6, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> is this cunt still banging on?



Unfortunately, it is.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> If you addressing me kindly be brave enough to do so 1 to 1.



Sure, no problem, you're a racist cunt of the highest order, now fuck off.


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> bogtrotter land


Where's that then?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Nov 6, 2011)

Mods have been having Sunday lunch or whatever. Took one of us a while to stir...we don't get double time on Sundays..he's gone.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 6, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> Where's that then?



That will be a racist remark about having a soft spot for them - a bog in Ireland, the poster is basically a total cunt, and a racist one at that.


----------



## HenryFlapjack (Nov 6, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Sure, no problem, you're a racist cunt of the highest order, now fuck off.



Racist? lololol.
Personally, I am glad the "travellers" err... don't travel. Let them stay in Basildon since they probably improve the bloody dump.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 6, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Mods have been having Sunday lunch or whatever. Took one of us a while to stir...we don't get double time on Sundays..he's gone.





Can you pop 'banned' in its tagline to avoid any confusion?


----------



## Ground Elder (Nov 6, 2011)

one out one in


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 6, 2011)

HenryFlapjack said:


> Racist? lololol.
> Personally, I am glad the "travellers" err... don't travel. Let them stay in Basildon since they probably improve the bloody dump.



Oh Christ, the cunt is back already.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Nov 6, 2011)

He's gone too, gissa moment, it's like juggling plates, taglines will have to wait....


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 6, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> He's gone too, gissa moment, it's like juggling plates, taglines will have to wait....



But, you're good at juggling plates, so sort it woman.


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 6, 2011)

Mrs Magpie said:


> He's gone too, gissa moment, it's like juggling plates, taglines will have to wait....


Do taglines to banned seem to be a problem in these new boards, cos it seems quite a few others don't get that in the tagline, which causes confusion.


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> Your experience differs from mine coley, as most people that I have spoken too have been quite sympathetic to the travellers, not only those at Dale farm but travellers in general who's lifestyle have been restricted by bitter little Englanders like yourself.


Ask anyone who has had to live near them how 'sympathetic' they feel, I have every sympathy for those who life has kicked in the face, who suffers genuine hardship, this lot dont qualify.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Nov 6, 2011)

@ angel
I'm the chief culprit on that front  It just takes longer and sometimes I forget if I've got a lot on and am just nipping in for a quick banning on the fly. Plus in my case, when I'm juggling plates I'm also reading the manual


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> Ask anyone who has had to live near them how 'sympathetic' they feel, I have every sympathy for those who life has kicked in the face, who suffers genuine hardship, this lot dont qualify.


They had their own site, which I thought was the point tho.

What's happened to the half of the site that actually had legal planning permission, are they still there (this is a question to anyone)


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> See Page 5, item 7 from "Timeless Forum replies for those who can't think up their own"


Oh the irony

Etc


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> Another one not living in the real world. So you'd like your amenties ruined? Your trees chopped for bomfires? Your possessions stolen? That's fine with you is it? You have no idea tiny person.



Wtf is a "bomfire"?


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 6, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Wtf is a "bomfire"?


lol I noticed that too!


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> Oh dear, another pseudo-philosopher who, when faced with an absolute, resorts to deflection.
> Which part of "breaking the law" do you not understand?


Judas Priest


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> Ask anyone who has had to live near them how 'sympathetic' they feel, I have every sympathy for those who life has kicked in the face, who suffers genuine hardship, this lot dont qualify.


I don't need to, I have a lot of settled travellers as neighbours, grew up in the days when they were allowed to travel and was well used to them coming and going and staying, and have family who live on an estate with many settled travellers and has a temporary site that they pitch up on once a year before moving on again, played with travelling kids when I was a kid, as in all sections of society, you have good and bad. I suggest that you learn to live with it and to accept that not everyone who does not share your values or outlook is bad.


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> I don't frequent pubs, nor do I read the Daily Mail. I do however gave first hand experience of these thieving, low life, scrounging scum, yes. You obviously haven't because I've yet to see anyone delight in having someone else's sewage coursing through their garden.



Maybe they picked on you cos you're a cunt


----------



## ThisIsNoSausage (Nov 6, 2011)

_angel_ said:


> They had their own site, which I thought was the point tho.
> 
> What's happened to the half of the site that actually had legal planning permission, are they still there (this is a question to anyone)


 
They are playing host to the evicted pikeys, so the Council is now having to spend more taxpayers money to get them booted from there.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2011)

persistence lol


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

ThisIsNoSausage said:


> They are playing host to the evicted pikeys, so the Council is now having to spend more taxpayers money to get them booted from there.


You sad cunt


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 6, 2011)

Errr I thought they owned the land. So I'm confused about "playing host to". And the implication that somehow no one there magically pays tax, of any kind.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> Shocked? I hope not, just pointing what most of the population thinks about dale farm and its former inhabitants, the fluffy bunnies on here are entitled to their opinions and I am sure they will be offering these badly done to 'romas' a place in their gardens.



"Most of the population", eh? Got anything to substantiate that claim with?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> No survey needed, just a pair of eyes and ears, bonnie lad, but you have to remove the rose tinted and the ear muffs first



Ah, so actually you merely *believe* that most of the population are as big a bunch of dickheads as you are. Righty-ho, glad we've got that sortd out!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> So you decry honesty and support illegality then, do you?



I support illegality.

Especially when that illegality is paying your mother for sex.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 6, 2011)

AlfHookham said:


> I don't frequent pubs, nor do I read the Daily Mail. I do however gave first hand experience of these thieving, low life, scrounging scum, yes.



Every time you look in the mirror, most likely.


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Deareg said:


> I don't need to, I have a lot of settled travellers as neighbours, grew up in the days when they were allowed to travel and was well used to them coming and going and staying, and have family who live on an estate with many settled travellers and has a temporary site that they pitch up on once a year before moving on again, played with travelling kids when I was a kid, as in all sections of society, you have good and bad. I suggest that you learn to live with it and to accept that not everyone who does not share your values or outlook is bad.


You have? congratulations, "when they were allowed to travel"? since when have they been stopped?
As for 'good and bad' I have no problems with the 'good'  but many on here seem to have a strange concept of 'bad'
My values and outlook? work for a living, obey the law, rub along with people where possible, but object strongly to those who steal, defraud or foul the enviroment.


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> You have? congratulations, "when they were allowed to travel"? since when have they been stopped?
> As for 'good and bad' I have no problems with the 'good'  but many on here seem to have a strange concept of 'bad'
> My values and outlook? work for a living, obey the law, rub along with people where possible, but object strongly to those who steal, defraud or foul the enviroment.


So why are such a bigot?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> You have? congratulations, "when they were allowed to travel"? since when have they been stopped?



Lets see: I think the primary preventive was CJA 1994, but there has been erosion of the quantity of stopping places, harassment of travellers _en route_ and vigilantism against them for as long as I can remember, and I'm just a couple of months short of my half century.
There's a myth about travellers mostly driving decrepit old vehicles, when the reality is that as the primary source of locomotion, most of the vehicles, whether you're a "new" traveller, a "tinker", a Rom or Tzigany or whatever are usually well-kept and sound. A fact borne out by the majority of roadside inspections forced on travellers by police (if you're actually interested in facts, a bloke called Kevin Hetherington did a survey on roadside checks, using the actual paperwork from the various English and Welsh constabularies).



> As for 'good and bad' I have no problems with the 'good' but many on here seem to have a strange concept of 'bad'
> My values and outlook? work for a living, obey the law, rub along with people where possible, but object strongly to those who steal, defraud or foul the enviroment.



So let's hope that you don't do work for anyone with links to corporations, then. Wouldn't want you to compromise your values.


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Lets see: I think the primary preventive was CJA 1994, but there has been erosion of the quantity of stopping places, harassment of travellers _en route_ and vigilantism against them for as long as I can remember, and I'm just a couple of months short of my half century.
> There's a myth about travellers mostly driving decrepit old vehicles, when the reality is that as the primary source of locomotion, most of the vehicles, whether you're a "new" traveller, a "tinker", a Rom or Tzigany or whatever are usually well-kept and sound. A fact borne out by the majority of roadside inspections forced on travellers by police (if you're actually interested in facts, a bloke called Kevin Hetherington did a survey on roadside checks, using the actual paperwork from the various English and Welsh constabularies).
> Aye, I have noticed how expensive and well kept many of these peoples car and mobile homes are, and the myth stems more from the hippie busses during the seventies than the 'travelling population'
> I think you will find anyone who works invariably has 'links' with corporations in some form or another.
> ...


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> So why are such a bigot?


And just what makes me a 'bigot'?


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> And just what makes me a 'bigot'?


Because you are saying that all members of the particular group in question have the same characteristics as the minority of anti-social ones. That is pretty much the definition of bigot. what makes you think you aren't a  bigot?


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Because you are saying that all members of the particular group in question have the same characteristics as the minority of anti-social ones. That is pretty much the definition of bigot. what makes you think you aren't a bigot?


All? exactly where have I said that?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 6, 2011)

Most of the "hippy buses" were mechanically sound. That was part of the whole idea of using old Dennis, Leyland etc buses, coaches and lorries. They were/are piss simple and reasonably cheap (more so back then, of course) to maintain.

As for links to corporations, that's my point. You're talking about objecting to people who steal, foul the environment and defraud, but those words describe most coprorations. We're all complicit, so singling out one particular group of people to shower your ire on might end up looking like bigotry to some people, IYSWIM.


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> All? exactly where have I said that?


I suggest you read your own posts.

Now, what makes you think you're not a bigot?


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> You have? congratulations, "when they were allowed to travel"? since when have they been stopped?
> As for 'good and bad' I have no problems with the 'good' but many on here seem to have a strange concept of 'bad'
> My values and outlook? work for a living, obey the law, rub along with people where possible, *but object strongly to those who steal, defraud or foul the enviroment.*



_If _it was true that some travellers have been guilty of these things then it would be a drop in the ocean compared to what wealthy individuals and corporations are allowed to get away with all the time. In some cases their default position is is to blatantly ignore the very planning rules that travellers allegedly broke at Dale farm, knowing that most local authorities don't have the funds to take them on.


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 6, 2011)

DotCommunist said:


> persistence lol


 
I am guessing this -
*ThisIsNoSausage this is a banned twunt*


- is Mrs M's sense of humor?


----------



## jesuscrept (Nov 6, 2011)

Does the land still legally belong to the travellers?


----------



## claphamboy (Nov 6, 2011)

jesuscrept said:


> Does the land still legally belong to the travellers?



Yes.


----------



## _angel_ (Nov 6, 2011)

claphamboy said:


> Yes.


Which was why I questioned the thing it said about the site being forced to play host to the remaining travellers. Who's playing host if they are the owners. I think some people are still thinking they were actually squatting on someone else's land, this is more akin to someone being told to take an extension down on their own property.


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> Most of the "hippy buses" were mechanically sound. That was part of the whole idea of using old Dennis, Leyland etc buses, coaches and lorries. They were/are piss simple and reasonably cheap (more so back then, of course) to maintain.
> 
> As for links to corporations, that's my point. You're talking about objecting to people who steal, foul the environment and defraud, but those words describe most coprorations. We're all complicit, so singling out one particular group of people to shower your ire on might end up looking like bigotry to some people, IYSWIM.



I would agree that includes most corporations, I would also agree we are all complicit and it therefore behoves us all to complain and object and demand action when we see fraud, theft and the enviroment being fouled, wherever we find it, be it the travellers at dale farm or BP in Florida, though we have to be careful, given the taxes BP pays contributes to the benefits paid to those at Dale farm and our pensions.
As to "one particular group" I object to that generalisation as I am quite capable of showering my 'ire' on any I feel, who are ripping society off, if certain bankers (and others) were having their houses  re-possessed I wouldnt be shedding any tears.


----------



## Kidda (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> No survey needed, just a pair of eyes and ears, bonnie lad, but you have to remove the rose tinted and the ear muffs first



I don't wear glassess or ear muffs.

I work on the ground within my local community so get to hear a lot of views on a whole range of subjects. The main gripe i heard was about the amount of money being spent on the eviction whilst services are being cut left right and centre. Obviously i can't speak for other communities, but then im not claiming to have the ear of the whole country am i.

Saying your view is supported by most people, does not actually make it true. It is not a stable base from which to debate, bonnie lad.


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> I suggest you read your own posts.
> 
> Now, what makes you think you're not a bigot?


Have done, cant see where I say 'all' or even indicate 'all' Perhaps the bigotry is your dept, in generalising that all who dont toe the 'party line' on here are Daily mail reading, rabid. foaming at the mouth, right wingers?


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Kidda said:


> I don't wear glassess or ear muffs.
> 
> I work on the ground within my local community so get to hear a lot of views on a whole range of subjects. The main gripe i heard was about the amount of money being spent on the eviction whilst services are being cut left right and centre. Obviously i can't speak for other communities, but then im not claiming to have the ear of the whole country am i.
> 
> ...



It is supported by most people I know or come across and most of them dont read the sun or daily wail, And not having seen a massive groundswell of sympathy for the travellers since this episode started then I would consider it logical to assume I am in the majority.


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> Ah all the luvvies still defending the pikeys rights, nice to see U75 still promoting the alternative reality.


This seems to say that you think "pikeys" (nice non-bigoted word there) shouldn't have rights.

Is this what you mean?


----------



## Kidda (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> It is supported by most people I know or come across and most of them dont read the sun or daily wail, And not having seen a massive groundswell of sympathy for the travellers since this episode started then I would consider it logical to assume I am in the majority.



But no thats not logic thats stupidity.

You come in to contact with a minute amount of people compared to the population of the UK and media we consume is based on a range of agendas. 

Just admit you don't like travellers and argue from that stand point, don't invent support millions of people strong.

You make these broad statements because i think deep down you know ''most'' people won't agree with you.


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Kidda said:


> But no thats not logic thats stupidity.
> 
> *You come in to contact with a minute amount of people compared to the population of the UK and media we consume is based on a range of agendas. *
> 
> ...



If by 'most' people you mean members of this forum than I would certainly agree, as for the rest of the population I think the majority would be in broad agreement with my sentiments


----------



## Kidda (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> If by 'most' people you mean members of this forum than I would certainly agree, as for the rest of the population I think the majority would be in broad agreement with my sentiments



Again, what do you base that on? You really are just going round in one circle you know. Might be best if you just run along and go brick the windows of a kebab shop or something. Set fire to a caravan, make yourself feel better. That sort of thing.


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> This seems to say that you think "pikeys" (nice non-bigoted word there) shouldn't have rights.
> 
> Is this what you mean?


No, they should have the same 'rights' as the rest of us, the right to be arrested for breaking the law, to have their financial affairs investigated by HRMC, to have their children taken into care if they arent caring for them properly............or do you believe they should have the right to squat in squalour wherever they please?


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Kidda said:


> *Again, what do you base that on? You really are just going round in one circle you know. Might be best if you just run along and go brick the windows of a kebab shop or something. Set fire to a caravan, make yourself feel better. That sort of thing.*




Ah, I had forgot the basic U75 response, accuse the poster of racism/bigotry/being a daily mail reader if desired response is not forthcoming, why on earth would I want to smash a window esp a kebab shop window? how does that make one feel better? have you tried it?


----------



## Zabo (Nov 6, 2011)

Kidda said:


> Might be best if you just run along and go brick the windows of a kebab shop...



Naughty...!

November is _Be Kind To A Lamb_ month.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> No, they should have the same 'rights' as the rest of us, the right to be arrested for breaking the law, to have their financial affairs investigated by HRMC, to have their children taken into care if they arent caring for them properly............or do you believe they should have the right to squat in squalour wherever they please?


you do know that travellers are very proud and very clean people don't you? 
are we talking about travellers or squatters now?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 6, 2011)

In coleys world no travellers ever get nicked


----------



## Kidda (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> Ah, I had forgot the basic U75 response, accuse the poster of racism/bigotry/being a daily mail reader if desired response is not forthcoming, why on earth would I want to smash a window esp a kebab shop window? how does that make one feel better? have you tried it?



''The basic u75 response'' i wasn't aware there was one.

You are a bigot though aren't you, your previous use of the word Pikey outs you on that score.


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

ddraig said:


> you do know that travellers are very proud and very clean people don't you?
> are we talking about travellers or squatters now?


He doesn't know, but he does know that the majority of the people agree with him.


----------



## purenarcotic (Nov 6, 2011)

The assumption that all squatters live in squalor is ridiculous.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 6, 2011)

yeah
the squats i lived in were cleaner that the shared houses or one beds i lived in and rented that's for sure


----------



## Flanflinger (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> No, they should have the same 'rights' as the rest of us, the right to be arrested for breaking the law, to have their financial affairs investigated by HRMC, to have their children taken into care if they arent caring for them properly............or do you believe they should have the right to squat in squalour wherever they please?



Why did WWB remove that offensive picture from his website ?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

purenarcotic said:


> The assumption that all squatters live in squalor is ridiculous.


All of his assumptions so far are ridiculous, with the most ridiculous being that the majority of people agree with him.


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> No, they should have the same 'rights' as the rest of us, the right to be arrested for breaking the law, to have their financial affairs investigated by HRMC, to have their children taken into care if they arent caring for them properly............or do you believe they should have the right to squat in squalour wherever they please?


What the fuck are you on about you dozy cunt


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> Ah, I had forgot the basic U75 response, accuse the poster of racism/bigotry/being a daily mail reader if desired response is not forthcoming, why on earth would I want to smash a window esp a kebab shop window? how does that make one feel better? have you tried it?



Post bigoted shit and get called a bigot. It's not complicated


----------



## Kidda (Nov 6, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Post bigoted shit and get called a bigot. It's not complicated


I think that the majority of people would agree with you on that Blag


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Post bigoted shit and get called a bigot. It's not complicated


He probably reckons that the majority of people would disagree with you on that.


----------



## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> Post bigoted shit and get called a bigot. It's not complicated



Ah, I had forgot the basic U75 response, accuse the poster of racism/bigotry/being a daily mail reader if desired response is not forthcoming, why on earth would I want to smash a window esp a kebab shop window? how does that make one feel better? have you tried it?

Then we have the next standard U75 response.
*What the fuck are you on about you dozy cunt *
What is the fascination you urbanites have with the C word?


----------



## Deareg (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> Ah, I had forgot the basic U75 response, accuse the poster of racism/bigotry/being a daily mail reader if desired response is not forthcoming, why on earth would I want to smash a window esp a kebab shop window? how does that make one feel better? have you tried it?
> 
> Then we have the next standard U75 response.
> *What the fuck are you on about you dozy cunt *
> What is the fascination you urbanites have with the C word?


what C word? you cunt.


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## Lock&Light (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> Ah, I had forgot the basic U75 response, accuse the poster of racism/bigotry/being a daily mail reader if desired response is not forthcoming, why on earth would I want to smash a window esp a kebab shop window? how does that make one feel better? have you tried it?
> 
> Then we have the next standard U75 response.
> *What the fuck are you on about you dozy cunt *
> What is the fascination you urbanites have with the C word?



I don't often use that word, but in your case I could make an exception.


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## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Lock&Light said:


> I don't often use that word, but in your case I could make an exception.



Feel free, mind you. its a worrying fact that I take from most of the responses on here is, I suspect many of them are from people benefitting from whats laughingly called a 'university education'


Kidda said:


> I think that the majority of people would agree with you on that Blag



Of course they would, at least on 'planet urban' they would. anyway I expect I will probably be banned in the near future, but it was an interesting interlude.


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## Orang Utan (Nov 6, 2011)

coley said:


> Feel free, mind you. its a worrying fact that I take from most of the responses on here is, I suspect many of them are from people benefitting from whats laughingly called a 'university education'.


 do you even know what you mean by that?


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## coley (Nov 6, 2011)

Orang Utan said:


> do you even know what you mean by that?



Whey, it makes sense kind of, shouldnt try replying after a couple of bottles of wine, but the gist is there


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 8, 2011)

coley said:


> It is supported by most people I know or come across and most of them dont read the sun or daily wail, And not having seen a massive groundswell of sympathy for the travellers since this episode started then I would consider it logical to assume I am in the majority.



That's not logic, it's an assumption. 

As for a "groundswell" of sympathy, in what context? I'm not talking about what the media presents to us as "the real story", by the way, I'm talking about what "people on the ground" think about it.
You see, I'd hazard that we haven't actually got to hear "the real story", because all that's been reported is the two polarised ends of the spectrum of opinion, and hardly any of the meat in the middle of the metaphorical sandwich. Personally I wouldn't assume that my view is that of the majority, simply because it wouldn't be logical to consider my opinion valid without a lot more information from the people local to Dale Farm, information solicited away from the cameras.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 8, 2011)

Kidda said:


> But no thats not logic thats stupidity.



That's a bit harsh, it's more like ignorance than stupidity.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 8, 2011)

coley said:


> If by 'most' people you mean members of this forum than I would certainly agree, as for the rest of the population I think the majority would be in broad agreement with my sentiments



*Why* do you think that, though? On what basis is your thinking constructed?

You see, it's very easy (and unfortunately common) for people to claim that their view is one that the majority holds, but somewhat harder to substantiate that claim. Can you substantiate yours?


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 8, 2011)

coley said:


> No, they should have the same 'rights' as the rest of us, the right to be arrested for breaking the law, to have their financial affairs investigated by HRMC, to have their children taken into care if they arent caring for them properly............or do you believe they should have the right to squat in squalour wherever they please?



You appear to not be able to differentiate between the rights of individuals and communities, and the responsibilities of the state apparatus.


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 8, 2011)

coley said:


> Feel free, mind you. its a worrying fact that I take from most of the responses on here is, I suspect many of them are from people benefitting from whats laughingly called a 'university education'



A suspicion that has arguably the same basis as your previous logic, i.e. it's your opinion, unsupported by evidence. 

Is there something "laughable" about having a degree, by the way? Are you one of those tedious people who bang on about attending the School of Hard Knocks at the University of Life? Who thinks that if you've somehow or other managed a university education that puts you beyond the pale in commenting on certain issues, or mean that you can only represent a particular view based on a university education?



> Of course they would, at least on 'planet urban' they would. anyway I expect I will probably be banned in the near future, but it was an interesting interlude.



If you're banned, it won't be for any of the weak crap you've spouted so far. That'll just get you laughed at, lile the kid who pisses his pants in the playground.


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## jesuscrept (Nov 8, 2011)

There's nothing to stop another group of ''travellers'' pitching on Dale Farm?


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## claphamboy (Nov 8, 2011)

I see Len Gridley is still making a twat of himself - trying to get the council to remove the soil and rubble bunds that are designed to prevent the travellers moving back onto the site. 



> Mr Gridley, 52, today applied for an injunction to force the council to remove soil and rubble bunds around cleared traveller pitches at the former illegal site, saying they were an eyesore, as bad as when the camp was there.
> 
> http://www.echo-news.co.uk/news/9349103.Dale_Farm___now_it_s_Len_vs_the_council/



Why do I get the impression he actually wants them to return, because it would give him purpose for his sad little life?


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## ddraig (Nov 8, 2011)

to jesuscrept

the police, bailiffs and council workers maybe?
also they are applying for some kind of injunction for the land as they do
after which i am sure they will turn it into a lush green meadow bursting with biodiversity


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## jesuscrept (Nov 8, 2011)

Ye, I've wondered what's ever to stop different travellers returning, but ye an injuction covering the land makes sense.


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## coley (Nov 8, 2011)

ViolentPanda said:


> *Why* do you think that, though? On what basis is your thinking constructed?
> 
> You see, it's very easy (and unfortunately common) for people to claim that their view is one that the majority holds, but somewhat harder to substantiate that claim. Can you substantiate yours?


A suspicion that has arguably the same basis as your previous logic, i.e. it's your opinion, unsupported by evidence. 

Its my opinion unsupported by evidence? well I suppose that is strictly true given no one has run any polls etc, however I would suggest the evidence is that most people dont like to see the law flaunted, or if they do, then only by people with a genuine and universal grievance, something sadly lacking in this particular instance.
But having said that, you certainly cant suggest that there is any significant support for the people at Dale farm other than some on here or in the Guardian and of course lawyers, who, at the end of the day, are they only ones to have derived any meaningful satisfaction from this whole sorry episode.


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## fractionMan (Nov 29, 2011)

*Solidarity Event*

An all-nighter of bands, comedy, spoken word, politics and DJs. ​​The Traveller Solidarity Network has evolved from the group supporting Dale Farm, uniting with travellers for the first time ever to resist evictions around the country, using direct action and radical po​litcs. We don´t have 18 million pounds, and every now and then we have to buy things. Come and show your support for this historically ignored antifascist struggle.

http://www.facebook.com/events/294186247270994/ ​
http://travellersolidarity.org/​


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## fractionMan (Nov 29, 2011)

Also, support protest at high court 14&15th dec: http://travellersolidarity.org/2011/11/24/dale-farm-test-case-going-to-high-court/


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