# Star Wars : The Force Awakens. The official thread for those who have seen it..



## ruffneck23 (Dec 16, 2015)

So to avoid spoiling it for other people on the thread we have this one :

Lets hope its good eh ?


----------



## Michael Hayward (Dec 16, 2015)

Can't wait! My dad has promised for 3 years now that he would get us opening night tickets.

He then goes and buys 4, Premium Seat Star Wars tickets! 

The hype between me, him and a few of my friends are huge! Can not wait for tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!

Unless you live in Finland. Then the film apparently came out today.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 16, 2015)

now i have seen the thread for which we have been waiting for so long, i confess myself disappointed.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 16, 2015)

you can leave at any time


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 16, 2015)

I'm wishing I'd booked a thursday showing now. I'll have to put this thread on ignore tomorrow.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 16, 2015)

i started a new thread for those that have seen it


----------



## fishfinger (Dec 16, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> i started a new thread for those that have seen it


Yes, you are posting on it


----------



## Virtual Blue (Dec 16, 2015)

what happens?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 16, 2015)

its just in preparation 

im sure from 2.16 tomorrow morning the posts will start...


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 16, 2015)

I know its a bit early for spoilers:



Spoiler


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 16, 2015)

fishfinger said:


> Yes, you are posting on it



doh , im an idiot, didnt realise what thread i was posting on lol


----------



## JimW (Dec 16, 2015)

I was impressed by the way the make-up artists had made all of the old actors and the two new English ones look completely unrecognisable, and was even more amazed by the way they'd made Chewbacca smaller, with a longer nose and now walking on four legs.
What was also amazing that night was the massive queues to see _Lassie Come Home _which was apparently showing on the other screen.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 16, 2015)

All the press reviews I've seen so far have been really good


----------



## Gromit (Dec 16, 2015)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I know its a bit early for spoilers:
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler



There a lightsaber fight but shh don't tell anyone.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Dec 16, 2015)

Am I allowed to post spoilers in here, or is it still spoiler-free until general release?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 16, 2015)

I say post away? Surely you'd only be in here if you didn't mind seeing spoilers?

I'm very much looking forward to reading all the spoilers. Despite my excitement for seeing the film, I'll be soaking up all the spoilers ahead of time. I'm a deviant, like that.


----------



## Balbi (Dec 16, 2015)

Well, that was a Star Wars film 

Boyega


----------



## gosub (Dec 16, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I say post away? Surely you'd only be in here if you didn't mind seeing spoilers?
> 
> I'm very much looking forward to reading all the spoilers. Despite my excitement for seeing the film, I'll be soaking up all the spoilers ahead of time. I'm a deviant, like that.





Spoiler: At least use spolier code









 that would be his son then


----------



## golightly (Dec 16, 2015)

Balbi said:


> Well, that was a Star Wars film
> 
> Boyega


 
We're seeing it in Peckham tomorrow as Boyega is a Peckham boy 

Also, it's £6 at Peckhamplex.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Dec 16, 2015)

How much screen time does Captain Phasma get?

Asking for a friend.


----------



## treefrog (Dec 16, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> How much screen time does Captain Phasma get?
> 
> Asking for a friend.


Not much, but it sounds like this gets expanded in future films. 

I loved it, but agree with the reviews that it was a bit too close to a remake of the original. The new cast are brilliant, and the Leia/Han dynamic is really quite touching and not what I had expected. There's a lass in work who's not seen any of the films(!) but I told her to just go and see it without worrying about the other films and it's nice being able to say that knowing it'll be entertaining enough in its own right without needing a "it'll make more sense if you've seen x" which seems to be the caveat for all the other big franchises floating around.

I'm really not a fan of all the Marvel/DC superhero franchises because they're so repetitive and low stakes. Compared to endless versions of chisel-jawed white guys cracking wise and not being in any real danger, TFA really stands up. I'm confident that dead characters are going to stay dead, the bad guy has the most depth to their character I've seen since The Dark Knight (and even then he was basically Anonymous with a better jacket), and the characters are fleshed out without needing to spend time emoting over some Awful Secret.


----------



## T & P (Dec 16, 2015)

I was enthusiastically devouring the critics reviews when they came out this morning, but stopped quickly enough after some of them saw fit to quite openly tell fairly detailed plot lines without even giving any warning. No major twists disclosed, but still not on.

I shall give this thread a miss from tonight until I get to see it next week.


----------



## moochedit (Dec 16, 2015)

This claims to be the plot (with 98% confidence). Only skimmed it and it may be bollocks....

Star Wars: The Force Awakens Plot Spoilers Board: Spoilerboard v3.3 - The Force Awakens Movie Premiere edition - New info!


----------



## Gromit (Dec 16, 2015)

moochedit said:


> This claims to be the plot (with 98% confidence). Only skimmed it and it may be bollocks....
> 
> Star Wars: The Force Awakens Plot Spoilers Board: Spoilerboard v3.3 - The Force Awakens Movie Premiere edition - New info!



One review i read said that this is the plot:

Star Wars a New Hope... with your fav bits of ESB and RoTJ thrown in.

Its practically a reboot but not quite cause the characters have changed a little with a couple of new ones thrown in.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 17, 2015)

Just got home from seeing it.

Better than the prequels.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Dec 17, 2015)

Just seen it, very much a homage to the ep4/5/6 films with lots of familiar elements, not bad but not great either, thought it really needed a decent villain. Seeing Han & Chewie back in the Millennium Falcon was cool as fuck though. 



Spoiler



There were lots of middle aged people looking like they had just lost an old friend at the end.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Dec 17, 2015)

The only part where I found myself thinking it was just too close to the originals was when the plan to attack the planet-weapon was basically identical to the plan in RotJ. Surely they could have come up with something else other than "a small team led by Han needs to go in on the ground and deactivate the shields"?

Also something I realised this morning - Finn is the only stormtrooper in history who has been able to hit someone he's shooting at, and they had him on sanitation duty??


----------



## Mr Moose (Dec 17, 2015)

Gromit said:


> There a lightsaber fight but shh don't tell anyone.



Why light sabres in the future and not guns? They look nice, granted, but it would concern me that my opponent might simply shoot me.


----------



## Reno (Dec 17, 2015)

Mr Moose said:


> Why light sabres in the future and not guns? They look nice, granted, but it would concern me that my opponent might simply shoot me.


Because the guns in Star Wars all seem to be bent. Thats why the stormtroopers never hit their targets.


----------



## Mr Moose (Dec 17, 2015)

Reno said:


> Because the guns in Star Wars all seem to be bent. Thats why the stormtroopers never hit their targets.



Stormtroopers are a bit rubbish. They'd be run out of town by a fairly average group of year nines.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 17, 2015)

So, some random ramblings as they occur to me, and with the caveat that I'd have to watch it again to properly consider what I think as a film rather than a "HOLY FUCK IT'S A NEW STAR WARS" event.

Overall it was enjoyable, but the writing and acting was really ropey at points (Daisy Ridley got better as she went along but at the start her acting and delivery were astonishingly bad).

I'd managed to avoid almost all coverage so went in knowing very little - I think I'd seen the first trailer, but I thought Finn was called Rylo Ken and was a Jedi (pretending to be a ST ala Skywalker and Solo in ANH)  Added to this I'd only finished watching ROTJ 3 hours before this one started so when the first sentence was "Luke Skywalker has disappeared" I was genuinely rather taken aback as I'd just watched him defeat the Empire, save his dad and rejoice with his mates.

As others have said, it does feel like an odd retread of IV and VI - can the Big Bad really not come up with anything other than a big planet destroying planet?! That said, I think in general they managed to strike the right balance between referencing the old without doing it for cheap nods and winks. I really liked the star destroyer graveyard and the return of a 'lived-in' feeling to the SW universe. It was nice to see all the old characters 30 years on; I know it's just what happens but man they looked _old,_ which I think really added to it, although I think in my head at least Ford capering around had too many echoes of Indy IV and I kept having to mentally remind myself he was Solo, not Jones.

All the surprises and reveals (at least, the things I assumed were supposed to be) felt _really_ signposted so lacked emotional punch. I also didn't like the fact that the main threat and the guy who kills Han Solo is just a bit of a whiny Emo kid. Emotional complexity and weakness is fine, but I never really believed a great deal of his motivation beyond being an angry kid - which maybe was the point, as that's what Anakin and, to a certain extent, Luke were too. But it just didn't hit the mark watching it this time.

For the most part I enjoyed John Boyega's performance, getting the right mix of humour and pathos. Finn's relationship with Rey felt kinda rushed, like I get they've been through some intense stuff in a short period but at the same time it all felt a bit too much, too soon. If you look at the dynamic between Luke, Han and Leia in ANH it feels like the start of a friendship which is then built on in TESB, whereas this jumped straight to the middle bit.

A lot of the film seemed pretty heavy-handed - there was a lot of telling rather than showing - "hey, you're a great pilot!", "hey, you're a great shot!", "wow, what a pilot!", "hey, you're good at this stuff" and a lot of the referencing of common tropes they didn't so much hang a hat on them as give them a whole new wardrobe - "don't take my hand, why are you holding my hand, STOP HOLDING MY HAND!". And all the stuff with Solo and Rey finishing each others' sentences and Rey always being able to come up with something to solve the problem and hey, isn't she kinda great at _everything_?!  _And_ since when can someone learn to do that much with the force in that short a time when earlier in the film she wasn't even sure Jedi/the force existed, letalone had any training.

Um... I should probably get on with work now. I didn't hate it, honest, it's just easier to point to the things you didn't like 

Oh, I liked the flyboy, Polo Dar or whatever. He had some good lines and I really liked that in a world of serious, weary, beat up people he was generally a pretty positive force.

More to come, no doubt


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 17, 2015)

Aaaaaaaand another thing (  ): it felt like Leia was under-served somehow in this one. Having rewatched the original trilogy it was striking how her arc developed (at least in IV and V - in VI she seemed to be a bit more reduced to damsel in distress/love interest, which was disappointing). It was cool to see her as General Organa, but there just seemed to be something slightly missing, not sure what though.

The final scene between her and Han was good but not great, again it didn't quite have the emotional punch it should have had, for me at least.

God, I really am a grumpy grump.

e2a: on the Han/Leia thing, I think at least part of it was just I was disappointed they weren't still together. I can understand why it was done/how it could happen, but after the madness of them getting together in the first three films I really wanted to see them in a proper relationship with years of being together behind them.

I just really wanted it to work out for them kids


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 17, 2015)

Oh, oh, oh, aaaaaaaand: I think some of my favourite bits were the non-plot bits. Just seeing the X-Wings and TIE fighters being used as real military vehicles, and the dogfights which were far more reminiscent of ripping adventure yarns than the prequels were. I think maybe what I'm after is more of a Firefly feel, to be honest 

As just mentioned on the Guardian podcast review, one of the things VII does really well is return to swashbuckling adventure and humour, which was so painfully absent from the prequels.

I do wonder if we'll have the same affection for the new 'gang' of characters. I think that was one of the many things that worked really well in the originals. Luke, Leia, Han, Chewbacca, R2-D2, C-3PO, even Lando at the end, they all had their different dynamics and stories, interesting individuals who brought something to the gang and the chemistry between them was there. I think the chemistry between Poe Dameron (yes, I looked it up this time) and Finn was pretty good. Will be interesting to see if/where Chewie fits in  Oh, and actually the two old droids and the new droid.

And fuck it, Luke and Leia are still around.

I'm running on little sleep and lot sugar and have no-one to talk to about this


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 17, 2015)

Just come back, really enjoyed it and am so relieved it wasn't total shit.

A couple of things I wondered about, if Luke didn't want to be found , how or why was there a map leading straight to him ?

And snoke is some 20ft geezer who looks like Voldemort ?

I actually gasped at hans death :-( and am pretty upset by it tbh.
But I thought his son took after his grandad with the wing emo ness.

Roll on the next one


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 17, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> A couple of things I wondered about, if Luke didn't want to be found , how or why was there a map leading straight to him ?


Yes, I forgot that, but I did spend a lot of the film wondering why the fuck there was a map to where he was? Also, it's not like he's a stationary fucking landmass, he could have just buggered off somewhere else!



ruffneck23 said:


> I actually gasped at hans death :-( and am pretty upset by it tbh.


Quite quickly as the scene progressed I realised what was going to happen, so the actual moment didn't shock me. I did consciously think "that's it, no matter how many times I rewatch it Han Solo is now dead ". It's a daft thing we do with fictional characters, or at least I do, but once their death is depicted it really does affect how I rewatch things.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 17, 2015)

Yeah it was fairly obvious what was going to happen, but to see it actually happen was a pretty emotional punch...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 17, 2015)

The cynic in me was left wondering if Ford agreed to come back for one last hurrah but didn't want to commit to a full trilogy.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Dec 17, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> And smoke is some 20ft geezer who looks like Voldemort ?


Were they talking to a projection (like Vader used to talk to the Emperor in the earlier films)? So maybe he's not that big in the flesh. Thought he just liked like an aged Gollum. Also hated Gleeson's General Hux character, too hammy and not sinister at all.
I thought it lacked a memorable set action piece that introduced something new, like the trash compactor scene in epIV, the AT-AT attack on Hoth in V, the scalac pit in Vi or even the pod race in I. It all seemed to be characters talking or battles between spaceships or people shooting at each other.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 17, 2015)

I did think some of the scenes were beautifully shot during the jakku act , like rey living I an at at shell....

I do like how jj mirrors stuff but twists it, especially the Han / Kylo scene


----------



## Indeliblelink (Dec 17, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> I actually gasped at hans death :-( and am pretty upset by it tbh.



Here, dry you eyes with a tissue.


----------



## fen_boy (Dec 17, 2015)

Arrrgh, I clicked the wrong thread


----------



## clandestino (Dec 17, 2015)

Indeliblelink said:


> Were they talking to a projection (like Vader used to talk to the Emperor in the earlier films)? So maybe he's not that big in the flesh. .



Yes, they were definitely talking to a projection - you could see it shimmer at points. I don't think he will be that big in the flesh...although it would be a nice twist if he was!

I enjoyed it, but it was basically a remake of the first one, with a few extra twists. Nice to see Uhura popping up for a second, and the guy from Heroes as a resistance fighter pilot.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 17, 2015)

Indeliblelink said:


> Here, dry you eyes with a tissue.
> View attachment 80954


Whatever


----------



## strung out (Dec 17, 2015)

So, any theories on whether Rey is linked to any pre-existing characters? My gf seems to think she might be Luke's long lost daughter, abandoned to protect her from her cousin's slaughter of the Luke's trainee Jedi knights.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Dec 17, 2015)

strung out said:


> So, any theories on whether Rey is linked to any pre-existing characters? My gf seems to think she might be Luke's long lost daughter, abandoned to protect her from her cousin's slaughter of the Luke's trainee Jedi knights.


That's my take too. The Force seems to be largely hereditary, and since Luke is the only remaining Jedi and Rey isn't Kylo Ren's little sister, there's really only one place she could have come from. Ties in with the flashbacks of being abandoned on Jakku while someone flies away - Luke repeating history by abandoning a young untrained Jedi somewhere hot and dusty for the rest of their life, with only an old Shakespearean actor to watch over them.


----------



## clandestino (Dec 17, 2015)

strung out said:


> So, any theories on whether Rey is linked to any pre-existing characters? My gf seems to think she might be Luke's long lost daughter, abandoned to protect her from her cousin's slaughter of the Luke's trainee Jedi knights.



Oh yes, for sure. She has to be someone's daughter. And the way they were looking at each other at the end suggested something along those lines...


----------



## strung out (Dec 17, 2015)

Not sure if the timelines match up though. I don't think Luke has been gone long enough that she wouldn't know he was her father...


----------



## Mumbles274 (Dec 17, 2015)

Lando and leias love child


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 17, 2015)

If she is Luke's  then they can have their very ' I am your father ' moment...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 17, 2015)

I don't think this matches with what we saw in the film, and they've said they're ignoring the non-film canon, but didn't Han and Leia have twins, a boy and a girl?


----------



## Indeliblelink (Dec 17, 2015)

In one of the trailers, it had Luke saying "the force is strong in family, I have it, my father has it, my sister has it and you have it", although that still leaves the option for Rey to be Han/Leia's daughter.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 17, 2015)

Indeliblelink said:


> In one of the trailers, it had Luke saying "the force is strong in family, I have it, my father has it, my sister has it and you have it", although that still leaves the option for Rey to be Han/Leia's daughter.


From what I understand that was just from the trailer (basically repeating what he said to Leia), won't feature in any of the new films.


----------



## moochedit (Dec 18, 2015)

strung out said:


> So, any theories on whether Rey is linked to any pre-existing characters? My gf seems to think she might be Luke's long lost daughter, abandoned to protect her from her cousin's slaughter of the Luke's trainee Jedi knights.



yeah, she's gotta be either luke's daughter or possibly han and leia's. are the bookies taking bets yet?


----------



## Mumbles274 (Dec 18, 2015)

Gotta say my overall thoughts having pondered since seeing it are that it was a bit crap. Looked good, looked star warsy but the plot was dire. Rehash of ANH... And not a good one.

A robot finds itself on a desert planet with important info stored in it, a hero that does not know they have the force helps it get to the rebels before an attack on a large planet destroying weapon. Mystery around who the hero gets the force from and a key character dies in the final act.. 

Fuck me could they not get a new plot?

Star wars vii : the plot repeats


----------



## clandestino (Dec 18, 2015)

Mumbles274 said:


> Lando and leias love child



I think Finn is meant to be Lando and Leia's child...apparently.


----------



## clandestino (Dec 18, 2015)

Mumbles274 said:


> Gotta say my overall thoughts having pondered since seeing it are that it was a bit crap. Looked good, looked star warsy but the plot was dire. Rehash of ANH... And not a good one.
> 
> A robot finds itself on a desert planet with important info stored in it, a hero that does not know they have the force helps it get to the rebels before an attack on a large planet destroying weapon. Mystery around who the hero gets the force from and a key character dies in the final act..
> 
> ...



I really enjoyed it, but you are right - the plot is pretty much the same. Although at the time, that was part of why I enjoyed it. Kind of like watching a remake, but twisted slightly. Loads of familiar elements, and it was a pleasure when each one came up. 

I have to say the "OK, we'll take that piece of junk" reveal was fantastic. That's when the film really took off for me.


----------



## clandestino (Dec 18, 2015)

Just watched the trailer - which I didn't see before going to see the film - and I'm confused by one of the opening scenes. Someone absailing into a dark spaceship. I don't remember that from the film. When was that? Or was it cut?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

it was Reys first scene in the film


----------



## clandestino (Dec 18, 2015)

I don't remember it. I thought her first scene was sliding down the sand dune. I guess it must have been just before then...


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

clandestino said:


> I don't remember it. I thought her first scene was sliding down the sand dune. I guess it must have been just before then...


Yeah, I think she slides down the sand dune after exiting the battle cruiser. But I didn't remember the sand dune bit until you mentioned it so I could just be constructing memories from things I've seen written here


----------



## Saffy (Dec 18, 2015)

Just come back from seeing it and loved it. I think probably because I took my son and he was beside himself with joy.
Properly shocked at Han's death, I'd managed to stay away from all spoilers.
I like Finn.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

Having now watched the trailers, I'm really glad I didn't as stuff like Vader's helmet, "Chewie, we're home", etc, hit me fresh, I wasn't just waiting for them to happen.

One thing that stuck out and highlighted something I did like about VII was when Rey says "I've heard stories" and Han replies "it's all true"*. Because, we know it's true too! We were there for all of that! Normally when a film has a backstory or a mythos we are told about it in exposition by characters or a voice over or text or whatever and whether it's done well or poorly the audience is still removed from it. But in the interchanges between Han and Leia, and their interchanges with the younger characters, we really feel the weight of what they're talking about because we went through those same stories (as much as a film audience can, obviously...).

It's something I'd like to put more eloquently but I'm supposed to be working right now... 






*although of course in the movie he's actually responding to another thing about the force.


----------



## clandestino (Dec 18, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Yeah, I think she slides down the sand dune after exiting the battle cruiser. But I didn't remember the sand dune bit until you mentioned it so I could just be constructing memories from things I've seen written here



Arrrgh, I'm going to have to go and see it again!


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

I think most of us are going / wanting to see it again


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

Yeah


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 18, 2015)

just back. Totally nailed it. Wookie rage. Too much to process now but I liked this a lot BB-8 was incredible. Han  


rey was fantastic as was kylo ren. Not sure about giant throne guy yet but that will be a mysteryfor the next film.

It was star wars. Good star wars.So many nods to new hope I lost count. The newer cast established themselves strong, the vets were there. This didn't feel like abrams star treks- 'a sci fi film in xxx franchise clothes'

it felt like the real deal. There are now 4 star wars films


----------



## mrsfran (Dec 18, 2015)

I really enjoyed it 

Was furious to go to the Disney store afterwards and find that the main "Here are all the action figures from the new star wars" box does not contain Rey. Or Leia. Rey is the MAIN PERSON IN THE FILM. Not included in the action figure box. FFS.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 18, 2015)

mrsfran said:


> I really enjoyed it
> 
> Was furious to go to the Disney store afterwards and find that the main "Here are all the action figures from the new star wars" box does not contain Rey. Or Leia. Rey is the MAIN PERSON IN THE FILM. Not included in the action figure box. FFS.


she's basically the protagonist so thats well off. I particularly enjoyed the quarterstaff smiting at the start. Thats what sci fi lacks sometimes, quarterstaff battles


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

mrsfran said:


> Was furious to go to the Disney store afterwards and find that the main "Here are all the action figures from the new star wars" box does not contain Rey. Or Leia. Rey is the MAIN PERSON IN THE FILM. Not included in the action figure box. FFS.


Is there any chance they'd just sold out? Otherwise yeah, that's absolutely ludicrous


----------



## mrsfran (Dec 18, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Is there any chance they'd just sold out? Otherwise yeah, that's absolutely ludicrous


No, it's one box that contains Han, Kylo Ren, Finn, Chewie, and a stormtrooper. Here: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Titan 11'' Figure Set | Disney Store

Unbelievable. They had no regular single action figures of Rey either. One bobblehead and one set of her in full sand gear so you can't see her face. Tons and tons of Kylo Ren, Finn, even Poe.


----------



## mrsfran (Dec 18, 2015)

(I love Poe)


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 18, 2015)

totally didn't spot this. Daniel Craig is the one in the stormtrooper armour when rey first uses force mind control 
http://io9.gizmodo.com/oh-so-thats-who-daniel-craig-played-in-the-force-awake-1748678355


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

mrsfran said:


> No, it's one box that contains Han, Kylo Ren, Finn, Chewie, and a stormtrooper. Here: Star Wars: The Force Awakens Titan 11'' Figure Set | Disney Store
> 
> Unbelievable. They had no regular single action figures of Rey either. One bobblehead and one set of her in full sand gear so you can't see her face. Tons and tons of Kylo Ren, Finn, even Poe.


Ah, sorry, I thought you meant box like a display stand in the store.

Well yeah, that is fucking barmy.







Why the hell have they got a stormtrooper and a TIE fighter pilot in there before Rey and Han?! Fuck it, even Chewie being there without either Rey or Han (both of whom he co-pilots for) is weird.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> totally didn't spot this. Daniel Craig is the one in the stormtrooper armour when rey first uses force mind control
> http://io9.gizmodo.com/oh-so-thats-who-daniel-craig-played-in-the-force-awake-1748678355


I bloody _knew_ that had to be an in-joke cameo! I thought it might have been Abrams, but didn't really sound like him.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 18, 2015)

what I did like here was the use of the sabre as a stabbing weapon, a lazer epee or whatever. Fin used it so and then Ren finished of Solo with a lazer impalement.

too many questions about the planet killer. If you can do stellar enginering on that scale you have certainly got cheaper ways of doing it. But star wars.

Thought chewie was a little uderused with the wound and that but nice to see someone other than him appreciating the heft of a Bowcaster. I think it was neccesary to keep chewie on the slightly background because the new characters, bb 8 and so on. Did a little cheer when r2 woke up and no one else did, fuck my life


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Did a little cheer when r2 woke up and no one else did, fuck my life


There was a sort of 'for the fans' gag where I laughed and no-one else in the cinema did (can't remember what the gag was, of course). Their problem, I feel.



DotCommunist said:


> Thought chewie was a little uderused with the wound and that but nice to see someone other than him appreciating the heft of a Bowcaster. I think it was neccesary to keep chewie on the slightly background because the new characters, bb 8 and so on.


It'll be interesting to see how much he's used from now on - will he just form a new partnership with Rey?

Also, I take it wookies age slower than humans?


----------



## fishfinger (Dec 18, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> ...Also, I take it wookies age slower than humans?


They have a lifespan of several centuries.


----------



## mk12 (Dec 18, 2015)

mrsfran said:


> I really enjoyed it
> 
> Was furious to go to the Disney store afterwards and find that the main "Here are all the action figures from the new star wars" box does not contain Rey. Or Leia. Rey is the MAIN PERSON IN THE FILM. Not included in the action figure box. FFS.



I bought a special cup from Cineworld before seeing it this morning. I asked for the one with Kylo Ren on it, and the lady behind the desk said 'that's the most popular one'. She said she hasn't sold one with Rey on it yet.

By the way, I loved it. I've been in a good mood all day because of it. I imagine this is how people felt after seeing the originals in the 70s and 80s (I was born in 1985). I certainly didn't feel like this with the prequels.

ETA - I hope Rey does become popular, especially among young girls. She's a good role model.


----------



## Santino (Dec 18, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> There was a sort of 'for the fans' gag where I laughed and no-one else in the cinema did (can't remember what the gag was, of course). Their problem, I feel.
> 
> It'll be interesting to see how much he's used from now on - will he just form a new partnership with Rey?
> 
> Also, I take it wookies age slower than humans?


He was around 200 during Return of the Jedi.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> just back. Totally nailed it. Wookie rage. Too much to process now but I liked this a lot BB-8 was incredible. Han
> 
> 
> rey was fantastic as was kylo ren. Not sure about giant throne guy yet but that will be a mysteryfor the next film.
> ...



im really glad you enjoyed it as much as me


----------



## Greebozz (Dec 18, 2015)

I had tears trickling down my cheeks when I first caught a glimpse of the millennium Falcon beautiful scene.  I absolutely love the energy of the first 3rd of the film.  I found it a bit upsetting seeing the old Hann Solo because he seemed a little diminished compared to his younger self, although he was still good and it was great to see him in the film it was the same Han Solo.

 I love the way that they fleshed out the alien world of Star Wars, I can imagine kids getting lost in their imaginations exploring the Star Wars universe.  That said a lot of it was decidedly non-alien, as in taking place by lakes and forests and Scottish islands and snowcapped mountains it all looked somewhat earthbound.  That said the set design for the deaths Star Mark 3 really captured the atmosphere of many of the great PC computer games.  It's a shame Han Solo had to die but I understand he wanted out.  I wish his death had been a bit cooler, like wrestling with his son shouting at the others to escape saving their lives.

I felt the whole troubles some offspring storyline was so depressing and negative.  Han Solo's son would have been much cooler in real life.  In this universe I so wish he had been a chip off the old block wisecracking with his dad.  Squandering his gifts of the force gambling and chasing women.  Unfortunately instead we had a pantomime baddie, just like Anakin there seemed no logical reason why he would have turned to the dark side.  It kind of left me on bit of a downer also the plot was basically a rerun of the new Hope.  Like those endless tiresome Spiderman films in which we've got to watch to be bitten by the spider, have the same girlfriend fight the same mad scientist.  

I wish this film had stuck with his interesting and magical side characters and wonderful alien atmospheres rather than go into spaceships shooting at each other.  I found it rather boring, the same tiresome attack on the death Star, the same explosions.  The new cast were great and it was seeing the magic and wonder in their eyes as they discovered News things absolutely enchanted me.  They were just like the audience on the cusp of an exciting adventure.  Ray my god she is beautiful and truly great heroine, sexy yet totally bad ass.  Fen brought great natural energy as well.  Overall though it was an excellent job done by JJ.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

Did anyone watch it in 3D? Was it worth it? I heard it was a retrofit which don't have the best reputation...


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 18, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> im really glad you enjoyed it as much as me


Did you opt for 3d in the end? I went 2d. Made it through 2 hours and fifteen plus another 15 of trailers without going to the toilet. Just as the credits roll I realise I am about to rupture my bladder.


question:

Scene where fin re-unites with poe, hearking back to lukes re union with liea where he accidentally shouts carrie?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

Greebozz said:


> just like Anakin there seemed no logical reason why he would have turned to the dark side.


I was frustrated by this too, but I'm hoping it will be developed in other films. Rewatching IV-VI it struck me how little information is given over each film. Like, all the backstory we now know is really stretched out over the three films, and some stuff is explained before other stuff that comes chronologically before it, if that makes sense?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Did you opt for 3d in the end? I went 2d. Made it through 2 hours and fifteen plus another 15 of trailers without going to the toilet. Just as the credits roll I realise I am about to rupture my bladder.
> 
> 
> question:
> ...



2d mate im a purist lol , need to watch again about the other


----------



## ska invita (Dec 18, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Did anyone watch it in 3D? Was it worth it? I heard it was a retrofit which don't have the best reputation...


saw it in 3d - for me that was pretty much the best bit of the whole film - the visuals were really excellent (and 3d hides some of the CGI I find). Really really recommend the 3d experience. It really works - right off the bat with the text crawl!

Agree with a lot of what Lord Camomile said in regards to script and story weaknesses, but fuck it, it couldve been worse.

For me the film was best when no one from the old films was in it - from the start right up until the millenium falcon first shows up i was completely won over. Every direct character from the old films felt like a bit of a let down...c3po and r2d2 especially really need to retire - its too much. I nearly groaned with the millenium falcons chess board came up. On top of the fact that the storyline is so much of a repeat it really got a too much having r2d2 still have the map and so on.

But yeah, genuinely moved in a couple of moments, which never happened in the original films for me. The Han and his son bit was great (even though it was a remix of the old films)

Pretty dark though - the ground force stormtrooper battles felt really gritty to me. Wonder what little kids will make of it? Lots of good realistic touches in the presentation. Little touches about the way the ships landed and stormtroopers moved around - really well executed.
Genuinely beautiful looking film for the majority - particularly the first act.

Rey and Finn both good characters for the future.
The two straight CGI characters (the wise woman and the new emperor) were a bit of a let down in being so digital looking , but hey ho.
Loads of british people everywhere 

All in all, good job...I wonder how long the first edit was, and what was chopped? It couldve done with being a bit longer I think to flesh some things out...felt a few little jumps and lurches


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

the first bit with rey and the falcon , was just breathtaking cinematography for me, the highlight of the film

oh and rey living in an at at shell was just beautiful


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

by all means not perfect  but it was still great


----------



## ska invita (Dec 18, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> the first bit with rey and the falcon , was just breathtaking cinematography for me, the highlight of the film
> 
> oh and rey living in an at at shell was just beautiful


the way she flew it about from the off was a little OTT but again, fuck it. Didnt bother me as much as some other OTT stuff that happens in modern films


----------



## mk12 (Dec 18, 2015)

Benicio Del Toro is the villain in VIII. What does this mean for Kylo Ren? Will he have a rival on the dark side?


----------



## mk12 (Dec 18, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> 2d mate im a purist lol , need to watch again about the other



Fuck 3D!


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

as i say not perfect but really good enough , as DotCommunist  said we have a 4th star wars film


----------



## ska invita (Dec 18, 2015)

the female dark side general who turned the shields off was a bit of a doh plot moment!


----------



## ska invita (Dec 18, 2015)

mk12 said:


> Fuck 3D!


do not underestimate_ the power _of the third dimension.....


----------



## Greebozz (Dec 18, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Did anyone watch it in 3D? Was it worth it? I heard it was a retrofit which don't have the best reputation...



I have to say personally I was rather disappointed with the 3-D.  I've only seen 2 other films in 3-D, Avatar and gravity, both of which were mind blowing.  So I'm a huge fan of 3-D but on this occasion didn't work for me.  Everything seemed a little cardboard cutout in regards to field of depth.  And I felt it was creating an extra level of murkiness.  At the start they really should have done something about the star field behind the scrolling text, it just looked like a black wall with blue dots painted on, it looked nothing like stars fields as we know them today.I must add that the non-CGI creatures were wonderful to behold.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

thing is about 3d is , I want shit flying at my face and I only ever found that with one thing in avatar, the rest is introspective 3d , looking down a tunnel like, and that doesn't convince me


----------



## felixthecat (Dec 18, 2015)

I've just seen it in 2D. It was wonderfully, awesomely brilliantly old school Star Wars, plot holes and all. The new characters were great loved how they worked with the old ones.
In fact I fucking loved every minute of it.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

ah I'm glad, i really am, not that I'm the gate keeper of SW happiness lol , I'm just glad that others enjoyed it too


----------



## ska invita (Dec 18, 2015)

why were they looking for luke anyway?


----------



## ska invita (Dec 18, 2015)

did kylo ren die?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

Cos he fucked up with the new Jedi academy after rotj  and ran away as far as I can tell, speculating it was Ben who fucked it up.

But why leave a map ? that's my main problem with all of it


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

ska invita said:


> did kylo ren die?



It wasn't clear but I don't think so


----------



## mk12 (Dec 18, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> It wasn't clear but I don't think so



After Ren is defeated by Rey, Snoke says Ren now needs to complete his training.

Actual quote: "bring kylo ren so I can complete his training".


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 18, 2015)

snoke wanted him and the imperial fellar to report to him , then rey kicked the shit out of him, so its unclear but somehow i think he must have been saved, #patriciadalkillertwat , #stillangrylol


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

ska invita said:


> the way she flew it about from the off was a little OTT but again, fuck it. Didnt bother me as much as some other OTT stuff that happens in modern films


There were a lot of points where people picked things up waaaaaaaay too quickly, like flying the Falcon, using the Force, wielding a lightsaber...

But then, I'm the guy who enjoyed the first 20 minutes of Gravity when they were just being space plumbers and got upset when the plot kicked in


----------



## Mumbles274 (Dec 18, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> space plumbers


----------



## ska invita (Dec 18, 2015)

Hamil got second billing in this - doesn't hat mean you earn 2nd most? He was in it so little they could've just cut before that final scene


----------



## gosub (Dec 18, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> There were a lot of points where people picked things up waaaaaaaay too quickly, like flying the Falcon, using the Force, wielding a lightsaber...
> 
> But then, I'm the guy who enjoyed the first 20 minutes of Gravity when they were just being space plumbers and got upset when the plot kicked in


Only thing that ruined Gravity was that she didn't drown (apart from in the Scandinavian edit,)


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Hamil got second billing in this - doesn't hat mean you earn 2nd most? He was in it so little they could've just cut before that final scene


Dunno about that, but they could have bloody cut the scene shorter! It was like that live episode of Eastenders where the actors finished early and had to wait for the music to catch up. After the 83rd cut between the two of them I wanted to shout "JUST END THE BLOODY FILM ALREADY!".


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 18, 2015)

gosub said:


> Only thing that ruined Gravity was that she didn't drown (apart from in the Scandinavian edit,)


I maintain the thing that ruined Gravity was trying to turn a perfectly fine procedural into a dramatic action film. Would have been quite content for them to just float around space doing astronaut stuff.


----------



## gosub (Dec 18, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> I maintain the thing that ruined Gravity was trying to turn a perfectly fine procedural into a dramatic action film. Would have been quite content for them to just float around space doing astronaut stuff.


They already made Apollo 13, it was a look  what we can do in 3d funfair ride, nowt wrong with that but going through all that then drowning at the end would have been a better ending


----------



## Greebozz (Dec 19, 2015)

Something has been troubling me deeply about this film, I went to bed and woke up shortly afterwards in a feverish dream, probably too much junk food at the cinema.  But I realise that JJ has done a terrible thing in this new Star Wars film.  By making Hann Solo's son the enemy and killing off Han, he has rendered all the joy of the first 3 original films a failure.  Every time I see the witty verbal play between Princess Leia and Hann Solo, all I'm going to think about is how awful it is going to turn out, Hann murdered by his son Princess Leah turned into some sort of shellshocked frozen faced shut-in.  

JJ is basically a dick who destroys things.  In his Star Trek reboots he threw away 50 years of Star Trek canon.  It makes me wonder whether he is really taking liberties with the power that he has.  Beyond all the hype and the buzz it really is quite a depressing film.  What does it say about the Jedi order that they can't train a kid without fucking it up yet again.  How the hell could that kid go wrong with the parents he had, Luke skywalker and all the other heroic people and robots from the rebellion.

I also realise that while the prequel's were utterly utterly toe curling and awful beyond belief, I wonder it if the baby has been thrown out with the bathwater with the new wisecracking constant action nothing really explained style.  I never ever thought I'd hear myself say this but there was something quite nice about knowing the context of what the hell was going on even if it was through appallingly plodding dialogue from the prequels.  Basically in this film I wanted to overhear some gossip about who the baddie was and why Han and Leah's son turned out bad.


----------



## Kanda (Dec 19, 2015)

Seen it in 2D and 3D....2D is better


----------



## Gromit (Dec 19, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Ah, sorry, I thought you meant box like a display stand in the store.
> 
> Well yeah, that is fucking barmy.
> 
> ...


Once bitten twice shy. Apparently when the first Star Wars came out shops were left with shelves and shelves full of Leia figures as hardly anyone bought em.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 19, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Hamil got second billing in this - doesn't hat mean you earn 2nd most? He was in it so little they could've just cut before that final scene


Was Hamil in it?
I thought she'd discovered a cardboard cut out and turn it around with the force. 

Whose kid do we think she is?
They kept plugging this waiting for someone angle and I presume her Jedi parents left her hidden there.


----------



## clandestino (Dec 19, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> There was a sort of 'for the fans' gag where I laughed and no-one else in the cinema did (can't remember what the gag was, of course). Their problem, I feel.



Yep - I can't remember what now but there was quite a few instances where I was only person laughing at something. But then it was the 9.45am screening in Streatham and there was about 30 people there....if that...


----------



## ska invita (Dec 19, 2015)

oh and the scene with the tentacle monsters was a bit OTT too
still, the bits that werent OTT made up for it...there really were some breathtakingly good looking scenes in it
I guess its hard to make a film for so many different audiences - you end up throwing bones to all the different dogs


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 19, 2015)

I liked lukes bereavment beard


----------



## Ranbay (Dec 19, 2015)

Fucking ace!


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 19, 2015)

ska invita said:


> why were they looking for luke anyway?


why were the resistance looking for their most legendary pilot, inspiring figure and most powerful non evil force user in the galaxy? Hard to say mate, hard to say...


----------



## ska invita (Dec 19, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> why were the resistance looking for their most legendary pilot, inspiring figure and most powerful non evil force user in the galaxy? Hard to say mate, hard to say...


so theyre looking for him to come out of retirement and start running around again? Hes an old man now... I guess the best he can do is do some Obi Wan style life coaching 
Funny, now you mention it I forgot how good Jedis are meant to be - the whole thing got cheapened in the prequels for me somehow


----------



## ska invita (Dec 19, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I liked lukes bereavment beard


i thought he pulled a good face in his one shot there at the end...(even if that shot did go on a bit long, with the camera fly around and all)


----------



## ska invita (Dec 19, 2015)

Heres the opening crawl text - I couldnt take it in at the time

*Luke Skywalker has vanished. 
In his absence, the sinister 
FIRST ORDER has risen 
from the ashes of the Empire 
and will not rest until Skywalker, the last Jedi, 
has been destroyed.

With the support of the REPUBLIC, 
General Leia Organa leads a brave RESISTANCE. 
She is desperate to find her 
brother Luke and gain his 
help in restoring peace and 
justice to the galaxy.

Leia has sent her most daring 
pilot on a secret mission 
to Jakku, where an old ally 
has discovered a clue to 
Luke’s whereabouts . . . .*


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 19, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Funny, now you mention it I forgot how good Jedis are meant to be - the whole thing got cheapened in the prequels for me somehow


second prequel managed to show a bit of that power. Qu gon Jin and Obi Wan go in to the heart of the enemy and fuck up everyone. on their own

but seeing how the Jedi order ended did cheapen it. Loads of people have this moan and its a valid one. These supposedly near godlike figures of mental perispacity and ultraviolence bordering on magic got jumped in ten mins flat by clones? And all we get from the nascent vader is killing the kids? rubbish


----------



## Dandred (Dec 19, 2015)

What was the awakening that Kylo Ren and Snoke mention, is that Rey? Because they mention that before she does any Jedi stuff.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 19, 2015)

Dandred said:


> What was the awakening that Kylo Ren and Snoke mention, is that Rey? Because they mention that before she does any Jedi stuff.


I think its Rey - theyve long set it up that you can feel a disturbance in the force that acutely...must've been a nightmare when there were hundreds of jedi running about


----------



## 8115 (Dec 19, 2015)

Well they didn't spend much money on the script writers!!!!

I liked it, I knew Han would die as soon as he started putting the explosives out, reckon Harrison Ford said he'd only do one more film.

I agree Leia was underused.

I proper welled up when the Millennium Falcon flew again, Leia said "may the force be with you", and Luke turned up at the end.

Did anyone else pick up a bit of a climate change subtext, we can do this etc? Or was that my overactive imagination?

"Use some force" "Thats not how it works"


----------



## Gromit (Dec 19, 2015)

ska invita said:


> I think its Rey - theyve long set it up that you can feel a disturbance in the force that acutely...must've been a nightmare when there were hundreds of jedi running about



They threw in a red herring with Finn. With Vader-lite taking notice of him... but it was always  going to be Ray:






*You will remove these restraints and leave this cell with the door open.*


----------



## gosub (Dec 19, 2015)

Gromit said:


> They threw in a red herring with Finn. With Vader-lite taking notice of him... but it was always  going to be Ray:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


10/1 they don't


----------



## ska invita (Dec 19, 2015)

Haha, so many dickheads on IMDB boards, but this made me chuckle:
WARNING TO PARENTS: this film glamorizes dessertion!
And Finn is supposed to be the good guy?! It is never okay to go AWOL, a-hole!
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/board/thread/251681319?p=1

classic


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 19, 2015)

ska invita said:


> I think its Rey - theyve long set it up that you can feel a disturbance in the force that acutely...must've been a nightmare when there were hundreds of jedi running about


They've always been a bit flaky with the Force and sensing things. In VI Vader (correctly) claims he can sense Luke among the Endor landing party, and Palpatine outright says "it is odd I don't sense him". There are plenty of other points where you would think one Jedi or another would say "hold on a tick, there's a Jedi about...".


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 19, 2015)

Oh, and do we think Kylo Ren was ever convinced by Poppa Solo or was he always going to kill him?


----------



## 8115 (Dec 19, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Oh, and do we think Kylo Ren was ever convinced by Poppa Solo or was he always going to kill him?


He was torn, just like Darth Vader before him in a very similar scene 

The more I think about it the more wtf I am about plot and dialogue similarities.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 19, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> They've always been a bit flaky with the Force and sensing things. In VI Vader (correctly) claims he can sense Luke among the Endor landing party, and Palpatine outright says "it is odd I don't sense him". There are plenty of other points where you would think one Jedi or another would say "hold on a tick, there's a Jedi about...".



Palpatine then goes on to accuse Vader of having an unsithly emotional connection (to explain the reason why he can sense him) and Vader reassures him this is not the case.... but we later find out it is the case.


----------



## AverageJoe (Dec 19, 2015)

Rey Kenobi


----------



## 8115 (Dec 19, 2015)

Alec Guiness was the best thing about that film.

Wtf, he's dead? Was it not him?


----------



## tommers (Dec 19, 2015)

He certainly knows his audience.   Luckily for me I am that audience. 

It ticked pretty much all of my boxes,  I absolutely loved it. 

My son said his favourite bit was when "leia fought darth maul".


----------



## tommers (Dec 19, 2015)

I want to see it again.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 19, 2015)

Ironic that the Star Wars franchise is using clones as actors.


----------



## magneze (Dec 19, 2015)

It was excellent. Harked back to the first ones in a good way. Introduced a bunch of good characters. Never got boring.


----------



## mk12 (Dec 19, 2015)

clandestino said:


> Yep - I can't remember what now but there was quite a few instances where I was only person laughing at something. But then it was the 9.45am screening in Streatham and there was about 30 people there....if that...


When Han recommended sending phasma down a garbage shoot?


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 19, 2015)

one thing I really liked was Kylo Ren's voice with helmet on - had a really good bit of rasp distortion, sounded great on the cinema sound system


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 19, 2015)

mk12 said:


> When Han recommended sending phasma down a garbage shoot?


Ah, I think that might have been my one! Thing is, I was at a 00:01 screening with a load of "cheer when someone from the OT appears" fans. I even opened my arms to the darkness in a "what, no-one?!" gesture.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 20, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> one thing I really liked was Kylo Ren's voice with helmet on - had a really good bit of rasp distortion, sounded great on the cinema sound system


yeah definitely...I really liked his character full stop..I liked the whole emo kid angle...and i like the way he dealt with Han...i thought it was a really good bit of acting at that point by him...interesting face... though by rights he should have died at the end.

A bit more mopping up and taking out of the old characters wouldnt go amiss in fact...c3p0 and r2d2 need crushing...luke has had it..out with the old! Come on you darkside


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2015)

THREEPIO HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN ANNOYING PRICK AND WE LOVE HIM FOR IT BUT R2 AND BB INTERACTING WAS GOLD. lIKE r2 WAS PASSING ON THE MANTLE.

fucking caps lock


----------



## Steel Icarus (Dec 20, 2015)

I saw it tonight and I loved it.
Kept catching myself thinking "THIS is Star Wars". Including dubious plotting & coincidences. Had managed to avoid any indication of The Big Death so was quite the shock. So much to like, so much EPIC. That final shot...wonderful
STAR WARS BABY


----------



## ska invita (Dec 20, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> THREEPIO HAS ALWAYS BEEN AN ANNOYING PRICK AND WE LOVE HIM FOR IT BUT R2 AND BB INTERACTING WAS GOLD. lIKE r2 WAS PASSING ON THE MANTLE.
> 
> fucking caps lock





I can handle c3p0 in the original films, but his character felt out of place in the star wars of the future...its the 21st century!...all that campiness feels so 70s....okay they had to keep him in just a tiny bit in this one, but thats enough now...let them get killed and raise the stakes a bit 

time for some fishing leave...


----------



## Pingu (Dec 20, 2015)

saw it tonight - as a fan...




that rocked. 
when the star wars logo came on screen i was a kid again


----------



## Pingu (Dec 20, 2015)

S☼I said:


> I saw it tonight and I loved it.
> Kept catching myself thinking "THIS is Star Wars". Including dubious plotting & coincidences. Had managed to avoid any indication of The Big Death so was quite the shock. So much to like, so much EPIC. That final shot...wonderful
> STAR WARS BABY



^ this


----------



## clandestino (Dec 20, 2015)

mk12 said:


> When Han recommended sending phasma down a garbage shoot?



Haha! Yes, that was one!


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 20, 2015)

I was left very slightly underwhelmed tbh, still enjoyed it but need to see it again - will have missed loads first time I reckon


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 20, 2015)

And the old Death Star was way more badass than the new planet thing


----------



## clandestino (Dec 20, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Haha, so many dickheads on IMDB boards, but this made me chuckle:
> WARNING TO PARENTS: this film glamorizes dessertion!
> And Finn is supposed to be the good guy?! It is never okay to go AWOL, a-hole!
> http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2488496/board/thread/251681319?p=1
> ...



The best bit about that is that desertion is spelt with one s, not two - even in America. I can only imagine dessertion has something to do with dessert. 

I'd watch a film that glamorises dessert. 

Sorry, I couldn't help it.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 20, 2015)

clandestino said:


> I'd watch a film that glamorises dessert.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Dec 20, 2015)

Accidentally tickets to see it again on Christmas Eve, this time with the kids


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Accidentally tickets to see it again on Christmas Eve, this time with the kids


I fear you may _have _to buy some star wars toys for them in the new year  Its a ballache but obviously, the kids come first (order) 


I'm not normaly huge on merch but by god do I want that remote control BB-8


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 20, 2015)

why did Fin leave the First Order? That was never clear. He just seemed to lose his stormtrooper bottle for no real reason


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> why did Fin leave the First Order? That was never clear. He just seemed to lose his stormtrooper bottle for no real reason


phasma indicates that he was due for re-programming after his reaction to the slaughter of the villagers, Kylo Ren senses his disquiet in that scene where he pauses to turn and look at fin in the battle/massacre aftermath. Its made clear that the slaughter of innocents sickened him and broke through whatever conditioning the clone troopers recieve growing up. or fresh out of decantment from the vats. ~I don't know how they play clone troop development now the entire extended universe has been relegated to non canon


----------



## Santino (Dec 20, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> phasma indicates that he was due for re-programming after his reaction to the slaughter of the villagers, Kylo Ren senses his disquiet in that scene where he pauses to turn and look at fin in the battle/massacre aftermath. Its made clear that the slaughter of innocents sickened him and broke through whatever conditioning the clone troopers recieve growing up. or fresh out of decantment from the vats. ~I don't know how they play clone troop development now the entire extended universe has been relegated to non canon


He's not a clone, just taken from his parents as a baby.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Dec 20, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I fear you may _have _to buy some star wars toys for them in the new year  Its a ballache but obviously, the kids come first (order)
> 
> 
> I'm not normaly huge on merch but by god do I want that remote control BB-8


I bought the LEGO Falcon when it came out, haven't made it yet...but having seen the film I also want Ren's dropship and Poe's X-Wing


----------



## badseed (Dec 20, 2015)

Just watched it so I can return to the internets.
Loved it, fuck yeah.

I was dreading some kind of twilight/Romeo & juliet thing with Kylo and Rey. Thank the creator that never happened.
Happy to see the chasm between them

How come her force skills came so easily, fully developed out of the box. Mind tricks and everything.


----------



## BoxRoom (Dec 20, 2015)

Interesting fan theory (yeah I know but am saluting this one) is that Kylo is a double agent tasked with getting close to, and possibly killing, the big bad and the killing of Solo wasn't a murder as such, rather Han was sacrificing himself for the mission to succeed coz now Kylo has got his foot in the door for completing his training and whatnot. Dark.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2015)

badseed said:


> How come her force skills came so easily, fully developed out of the box. Mind tricks and everything.


'The Force is strong in my family. My father has it. I have it. My sister has it. You have that power, too'


----------



## Gromit (Dec 20, 2015)

badseed said:


> Just watched it so I can return to the internets.
> Loved it, fuck yeah.
> 
> I was dreading some kind of twilight/Romeo & juliet thing with Kylo and Rey. Thank the creator that never happened.
> ...


Stress. It's like people being able to lift buses after an accident.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 20, 2015)

I thought Chewie was made a bit too much of a laughing stock, not enough of the badass who'd rip your arms off in a second.

He wouldn't lend Han his crossbow blaster IRL either, I reckon.

Kylo Ren's light sabre looked a bit dangerous with the sideways bits at the hilt - you'd definitely singe your sleeves while swinging it about


----------



## 8115 (Dec 20, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> why did Fin leave the First Order? That was never clear. He just seemed to lose his stormtrooper bottle for no real reason


1, he got blood on him 2, he was someones Jedi son so obviously susceptible to turning good (this is all a bit of a blur but how come he has Jedi powers, tbc obviously, is he Lando Calrissian's son, or am I just making a stupid assumption, lando calrissian could use a light saber I think if my memory does not deceive me and this was always left hanging a bit) 3, I think that is quite a pivotal plot point, a lot of Star wars is about fate and destiny and that's a massive thing for a storm trooper to "turn good" seeing as they basically are presented as having no free will.

More to the point, if he is somehow special, has Jedi powers, why did the first order not train him harder and keep a closer eye on him.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 20, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> He wouldn't lend Han his *crossbow blaster* IRL either, I reckon.
> 
> Kylo Ren's light sabre looked a bit dangerous with the *sideways bits* at the hilt - you'd definitely singe your sleeves while swinging it about



Bowcaster. 

Cross guard.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 20, 2015)

8115 said:


> 1, he got blood on him 2, he was someones Jedi son so obviously susceptible to turning good (this is all a bit of a blur but how come he has Jedi powers, tbc obviously, is he Lando Calrissian's son, or am I just making a stupid assumption, lando calrissian could use a light saber I think if my memory does not deceive me and this was always left hanging a bit) 3, I think that is quite a pivotal plot point, a lot of Star wars is about fate and destiny and that's a massive thing for a storm trooper to "turn good" seeing as they basically are presented as having no free will.
> 
> More to the point, if he is somehow special, has Jedi powers, why did the first order not train him harder and keep a closer eye on him.


Anyone can use a lightsabre. It's basically a sword. How good you are at it will be down to your level of martial skills. He was trained to fight as a storm trooper. 

Jedi can use them to deflect blaster fire. If he tried that he'd get fried.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 20, 2015)

8115 said:


> 1, he got blood on him 2, he was someones Jedi son so obviously susceptible to turning good (this is all a bit of a blur but how come he has Jedi powers, tbc obviously, is he Lando Calrissian's son, or am I just making a stupid assumption, lando calrissian could use a light saber I think if my memory does not deceive me and this was always left hanging a bit) 3, I think that is quite a pivotal plot point, a lot of Star wars is about fate and destiny and that's a massive thing for a storm trooper to "turn good" seeing as they basically are presented as having no free will.
> 
> More to the point, if he is somehow special, has Jedi powers, why did the first order not train him harder and keep a closer eye on him.




you don't have to be a jedi to swing the sword. Wookipedia has this



> He used this weapon to fight against Kylo Ren, but lacking the power of the Force, was swiftly outmatched.


Finn


----------



## ska invita (Dec 20, 2015)

Yeah





twentythreedom said:


> I thought Chewie was made a bit too much of a laughing stock, not enough of the badass who'd rip your arms off in a second.
> 
> He wouldn't lend Han his crossbow blaster IRL either, I reckon.
> 
> Kylo Ren's light sabre looked a bit dangerous with the sideways bits at the hilt - you'd definitely singe your sleeves while swinging it about


Yeah chewie became a bit more cuddly, but better that then having some out and out kids toy character like jarjar or the ewoks  (even though I like the ewoks)


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 20, 2015)

i liked it


----------



## tommers (Dec 20, 2015)

Finn doesn't have force powers.  He's not a clone,  Phasma said something  about her troops not being clones and he said he was taken when he was a baby.  Sounded like some kind of special division that she has.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 20, 2015)

I'm just glad I watched it a couple of days after it came out so there were no fucking giddy fanboys and wooping idiots spoiling it.


----------



## The Octagon (Dec 20, 2015)

Annoying experience in the cinema last night, bloke walking out of a screening as we walked in, practically shouting shot for shot the Han death scene with his mates. Cheers mate. 

Enjoyed it, although the plot was too similar for me, can't believe that's the best Abrams and Kasdan could come up with. 

Boyega was great, as was Isaac (he needed more screen time, hope that comes in Ep VIII), Ridley was a bit stage school but got better and was convincing in the action scenes. 

Millennium reveal was my schoolboy squeal moment


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2015)

I enjoyed it much more the second time (IMAX Empire Leicester Sq last night) mainly because:

1) I wasn't sitting their like a fan boy waiting for Solo/ Leia or Luke to show up and actually enjoyed the new characters
2) The sound had a huge impact on the experience.

So...who do we think Snoke really is?


----------



## tommers (Dec 20, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> So...who do we think Snoke really is?



Wicket.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 20, 2015)

jar jar


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 20, 2015)

I'm betting he's the return of a Sith already mentioned in the prequels.


----------



## gaijingirl (Dec 21, 2015)

Just got back from it - I really, really enjoyed it (and it's not really my thing - was for gaijinboy really) and at the end John Boyega (Finn) came along to say hello to us all!  Very entertaining.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 21, 2015)

The Octagon said:


> Ridley was a bit stage school but got better and was convincing in the action scenes.


Yeah I had the same experience - started thinking of her as a bit plummy, but once she got a bit more jedi'd up I thought she made a great heroine and dealt with the action convincingly

Talking of Daisy this amused me:


----------



## braindancer (Dec 21, 2015)

Family outing on Saturday night....

One of my daughters is a Star Wars nut and was hyper-excited about going, the other claimed before going to HATE Star Wars and actually asked if she could stay at home to do her homework?! – to which the answer was no.  In for a penny, in for a pound she must have thought as just before we left she slipped into her sister’s storm trooper costume.

We all LOVED it.


----------



## magneze (Dec 21, 2015)

It was really funny in parts too. I mean laugh out loud comedy funny.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 21, 2015)

i didnt like the jokes  [miserable git]


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 21, 2015)

tommers said:


> Finn doesn't have force powers.  He's not a clone,  Phasma said something  about her troops not being clones and he said he was taken when he was a baby.  Sounded like some kind of special division that she has.



None of the stormtroopers are clones iirc.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 21, 2015)

see I assumed clone cos he had only a number not a name. But it makes sense that they are like imperial jannisaries and phasma is the leader. The first orders own elite unit. Who seem to have discovered a weapon never before seen: a flamethrower


----------



## tommers (Dec 21, 2015)

fractionMan said:


> None of the stormtroopers are clones iirc.


Aren't they?  I thought they were all from Jango Fett?  I might be wrong though, the prequels didn't make much sense.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 21, 2015)

tommers said:


> Aren't they?  I thought they were all from Jango Fett?  I might be wrong though, the prequels didn't make much sense.


They _were_, but not any more, not by the time of Ep VII.

There's explanations and stuff floating around online.


----------



## fractionMan (Dec 21, 2015)

tommers said:


> Aren't they?  I thought they were all from Jango Fett?  I might be wrong though, the prequels didn't make much sense.



That's clone troopers, not storm troopers.


----------



## tommers (Dec 21, 2015)

fractionMan said:


> That's clone troopers, not storm troopers.


What's the difference?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 21, 2015)

Clone Troopers vs. Stormtroopers: Thoughts On Their Differences


----------



## tommers (Dec 21, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> Clone Troopers vs. Stormtroopers: Thoughts On Their Differences


Thanks but that's just confused me even more. 

I can see I'm going to have to do some research.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 21, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> Just got back from it - I really, really enjoyed it (and it's not really my thing - was for gaijinboy really) and at the end John Boyega (Finn) came along to say hello to us all!  Very entertaining.



He was at the LA premiere on Tuesday, and then at the London premiere on Wednesday, but then after that he went back to NY do show up at cinemas, and then apparently doing the same thing back in London last night. He's been clocking up some serious transatlantic miles this week.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 21, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> There's videos of him going all round New York doing the same thing on Thursday. But he was also at the LA premiere on Tuesday, and then at the London premiere on Wednesday? But then after that he went back to NY as was appearing in cinemas all over NYC. Then presumably doing the same thing back in London last night. He's been clocking up some serious transatlantic miles this week.


Pah, lets hear how quick he can do the kessel run


----------



## gaijingirl (Dec 21, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> He was at the LA premiere on Tuesday, and then at the London premiere on Wednesday, but then after that he went back to NY do show up at cinemas, and then apparently doing the same thing back in London last night. He's been clocking up some serious transatlantic miles this week.



yes - he talked a little bit about this and his plans for the next few weeks.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 21, 2015)

Leia was badly served by this film.  They gave her the title "General" and then proceeded to give her every "little woman waiting for her man" stereotype.  Where's bad-ass Leia?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 21, 2015)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Leia was badly served by this film.  They gave her the title "General" and then proceeded to give her every "little woman waiting for her man" stereotype.  Where's bad-ass Leia?


My thoughts indeed.

Like I said above, rewatching Return of the Jedi I was struck by how much she was relegate to generic female tropes. Got off to a good start by being the one to rescue Han, except she got captured and became Slave Leia, and then she did a bit on Endor but was essentially just Han's love interest/Luke's sister.

Still better than Padme though. I think. I've largely forgotten her involvement, as I have a large majority of the prequels.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 21, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> except she got captured and became Slave Leia


TBF she does strangle the hutt with the chain used to enslave. 




but I was hoping to see some developed force skills from her because surely luke would have been traing her as well as his school that went down the shitter?


----------



## no-no (Dec 21, 2015)

twentythreedom said:


> why did Fin leave the First Order? That was never clear. He just seemed to lose his stormtrooper bottle for no real reason




Pretty sure at one point he says that was his first battle experience too....can't remember which bit. need to watch it again. Fins character was great.The lives of storm/clone troopers has always been a mystery and the prequels didn't deliver by making the clones literally robots that could be controlled at the flick of a switch.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 21, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> TBF she does strangle the hutt with the chain used to enslave.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Both fair points.


----------



## no-no (Dec 21, 2015)

Leia is pretty old in this new film, i wasn't expectng her to be swinging from ropes although I was kind of hoping that she'd have had some jedi training over the years. She is a skywalker after all. Han looked tired the whole way through too....sad/glad he's dead. 

Social services need to take a look into the Skywalker family and the Jedi too, who the hell would let either of them near a child?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 21, 2015)

no-no said:


> Social services need to take a look into the Skywalker family and the Jedi too, who the hell would let either of them near a child?


Luke's training was hardly robust in itself, I'm wondering if starting a whole new academy was just more than he was capable of (I mean, the admin _alone_...!).

What I'm finding more and more interesting are the differences in individuals' relationship with the Force, and how that affects how they use it and how it manifests itself. It certainly seems to be more than just a tool/skill that you learn how to use and then you can use it like everyone else uses it.


----------



## no-no (Dec 21, 2015)

and it certainly seems like crack for Ren. I noticed that while that first order dude was giving that nazi style speech to the troops we heard none of that rhetoric from Ren himself. Is he just craving the power of the dark side for the sheer peasure of wielding power regardless of the consequences or does he sympathise with their vague talk of stamping out "disorder"? It'd be good to see if the first orders ideals are exposed a bit more rather than them just being "evil". I can't see JJ how can keep the first order as just an evil entity while having characters like finn around.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Dec 21, 2015)

Snoke on his throne talking down to his minions reminded me much of what Skeletor used to do in masters of the universe.


----------



## Minnie_the_Minx (Dec 21, 2015)

I went to see it on Friday.  Missed some of it (not sure how much) when I fell asleep


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 21, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Yeah I had the same experience - started thinking of her as a bit plummy, but once she got a bit more jedi'd up I thought she made a great heroine and dealt with the action convincingly



Did you notice how much facial twitching she was doing? We were in the front row tbf but i found it really noticeable


----------



## Gromit (Dec 21, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> Snoke on his throne talking down to his minions reminded me much of what Skeletor used to do in masters of the universe.


When I first saw him I was like WTF a giant force user? This is going to make the boss fight duel awkward. 

Then I realised it was the Palpatine hologram trick but better tech. 

Then I realised it displayed something about his megalomaniac ego. I hope they go full Napoleon complex and it turns out he's about the same height as Yoda IRL.


----------



## Voley (Dec 21, 2015)

Enjoyed that. Very nostalgic - the point about it being almost a remake of the good ones is a fair one - but I still liked it. End bit gave me a lump in my throat. Didn't like the new bloke much but it's sort of irrelevant, really. Seeing all the oldies was ace and the special effects were brill. Good stuff. We can safely forget about The Phantom Menace now.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 21, 2015)

I thought Luke's reveal was pretty good, again seeing just how different from Jedi which I'd watched three hours beforehand, but it was soooooooo dragged out it lost most of its impact.

Oh, oh, wait - wasn't Luke's 'saber originally Anakin's? He built a new one in Jedi but that was green, and I'm pretty sure the one Rey had was blue, like in A New Hope when Kenobi said "this belonged to your father...". So, Anakin -> Luke -> Rey : another blatant "psst, she's his daughter (or at worst niece)" reference, right?

Anyway, I liked the gesture of her holding it out to him (again though, did the map say "he's on this bit of mountaintop right here" or did they skip the bits where she walked around for hours mumbling "where the fuck _is_ he?!  "?  ).


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 21, 2015)

I've found him!!

The Monastery | Built heritage | Skellig Michael | World Heritage | World Heritage Ireland



There must be huge demand for tours of it, it's seriously remote though. Ifirc there was massive hype about it when they started filming

What planet was it on the film?


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 21, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Anyway, I liked the gesture of her holding it out to him (again though, did the map say "he's on this bit of mountaintop right here" or did they skip the bits where she walked around for hours mumbling "where the fuck _is_ he?!  "?  ).



He knew she was coming.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 21, 2015)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> He knew she was coming.


But how did she know where to go? Unless the map really was that specific?


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 21, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> But how did she know where to go? Unless the map really was that specific?



The Force is strong in this one.

(If she can do advanced Jedi mind tricks, she can do the simple ones like find someone, especially since she already had a map to the planet.)


----------



## Gromit (Dec 21, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> or did they skip the bits where she walked around for hours mumbling "where the fuck _is_ he?!  "?  ).



Once she knew the planet it was simply a case of searching Craigslist for Jedi Academy on that planet. You have to put a location in you see, it won't just bring up results for everywhere.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 21, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Once she knew the planet it was simply a case of searching Craigslist for Jedi Academy on that planet. You have to put a location in you see, it won't just bring up results for everywhere.



Maybe she placed a "master wanted" ad in the personals.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Dec 21, 2015)

I cried.
Fuck you but I cried.
I loved that character for over 30 years.
My 5 year old son said it will be okay.
He doesn't know shit.

Great film.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 21, 2015)

I feel your pain , I'm still gutted lol


----------



## Gromit (Dec 21, 2015)

Harrison Ford consistently and publicly harressed George Lucas to reprise the Han Solo role and the Indy Jones role. 

J J Abrams off'd him at the first opportunity to head that off is my theory.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Dec 21, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> I feel your pain , I'm still gutted lol



No body no death right? I'm still hoping.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 21, 2015)

Virtual Blue said:


> No body no death right? I'm still hoping.



Probably depends on how much they offer Harrison Ford.  They're going to have to go some to top the reported $35 million he's getting for this one.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 21, 2015)

Well Harrison has been saying han should have gone in return of the Jedi , so I reckon it's a done deal , bring him back to end it.

At least Han got a much longer life this way


----------



## no-no (Dec 21, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> But how did she know where to go? Unless the map really was that specific?


No reason to think it wouldn't be accurate. He's Jedi he could have been following her from the moment she landed or before. Obi Wan pops up in the desert seemingly from nowhere to save luke from the sand people after all


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Dec 21, 2015)

no-no said:


> No reason to think it wouldn't be accurate. He's Jedi he could have been following her from the moment she landed or before. Obi Wan pops up in the desert seemingly from nowhere to save luke from the sand people after all



"When the student is ready, the teacher appears."


----------



## Kesher (Dec 21, 2015)

Probably the worst Star Wars film so far: rehashed  story. I would not give it more than 3 stars out of 5


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 21, 2015)

ah well


----------



## ska invita (Dec 21, 2015)

Luke found Yoda by crashing into a random swamp... What are the chances of that? Random spot on a planet - boom! It's the Sci fi way...


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 21, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Luke found Yoda by crashing into a random swamp... What are the chances of that? Random spot on a planet - boom! It's the Sci fi way...


obi wans force ghost told him to go to Degobah. When he was freezing his tits off on hoth in empire strikes back.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 21, 2015)

his x-wing was was guided there, he was guided. To just the right spot. You mistake the ways of the force if you think coincidence guides the events.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 21, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Luke found Yoda by crashing into a random swamp... What are the chances of that? Random spot on a planet - boom! It's the Sci fi way...


So you're suggesting that Yoda shot him down?
I never trusted that booger faced toad.


----------



## Kanda (Dec 22, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Harrison Ford consistently and publicly harressed George Lucas to reprise the Han Solo role and the Indy Jones role.
> 
> J J Abrams off'd him at the first opportunity to head that off is my theory.



I thought he'd had enough and didn't want to do another film, hence him getting frozen in carbonite...


----------



## Gromit (Dec 22, 2015)

Kanda said:


> I thought he'd had enough and didn't want to do another film, hence him getting frozen in carbonite...


At that stage, yes he had. 

Funny how decades later an obvious cash cow part seems appealing.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 22, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Luke found Yoda by crashing into a random swamp... What are the chances of that? Random spot on a planet - boom! It's the Sci fi way...


The force.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 22, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> The force.


well its a handy explanation
fact is every interplanetary sci fi tv film treats planets like a small village within which everything happens. Im thinking Blakes 7 and Star Trek especially, where beaming down to a random spot on a planet always means landing right in the middle of that entire planets central sociopolitical-trouble hub! I dont mind too much, its all part of the fun. The shows wouldnt be that good if people kept landing in uninhabitted forests in which nothing happens apart from getting attacked by space squirrels. And were they to know exactly where to go and what to find it would take away the suspense...

But yeah, the force. And thats how Rey finds Luke on a super remote island rock.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 22, 2015)

Saw this last night. The power of star wars made it a must watch film, but had it been any other I could have just gone to bed at any point. I'm kind of glad I didn't bother going to the cinema. Watching it as less of an event put it more into context as a stand alone film. Not terrible but not great by any stretch. Solo death seemed like Harrison was just waiting to give up acting and go back to his trailer for coco.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 22, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Saw this last night. The power of star wars made it a must watch film, but had it been any other I could have just gone to bed at any point. I'm kind of glad I didn't bother going to the cinema. Watching it as less of an event put it more into context as a stand alone film. Not terrible but not great by any stretch. Solo death seemed like Harrison was just waiting to give up acting and go back to his trailer for coco.


The best bit was big screen 3d  it looked breathtaking
and yeah agree, the sooner the old actors get put out to pasture the better


----------



## CNT36 (Dec 22, 2015)

The Octagon said:


> Annoying experience in the cinema last night, bloke walking out of a screening as we walked in, practically shouting shot for shot the Han death scene with his mates. Cheers mate.
> 
> Enjoyed it, although the plot was too similar for me, can't believe that's the best Abrams and Kasdan could come up with.
> 
> ...


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Star Trek especially, where beaming down to a random spot on a planet always means landing right in the middle of that entire planets central sociopolitical-trouble hub!


they use scanners to identify population centres. Stargate, well I have no excuse for that one...


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Saw this last night. The power of star wars made it a must watch film, but had it been any other I could have just gone to bed at any point. I'm kind of glad I didn't bother going to the cinema. Watching it as less of an event put it more into context as a stand alone film. Not terrible but not great by any stretch. Solo death seemed like Harrison was just waiting to give up acting and go back to his trailer for coco.


shrivelled, rotten walnut of a heart


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 22, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> they use scanners to identify population centres. Stargate, well I have no excuse for that one...


If the gates were built it would make sense they were done so in/near populated spots. Likewise if it's discovered later, like a river. Sort of


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 22, 2015)

Saw it yesterday. It was essentially a superior reboot of the first film.


----------



## Voley (Dec 22, 2015)

I reckon Han'll be back. Luke fell down a fucking great chasm like that once and came out alright. Just ended up hanging from a massive telly aerial. Next episode Han'll be discovered hanging off a Sky dish in the Dagobar system and all will be well.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 22, 2015)

So what do we think will be the iconic moments and memes that will be referenced over and over again for this one?

I'm going to open with "That one's garbage/The garbage will do" and "Do I talk first or you talk first? I talk first?".


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 22, 2015)

"I'll give you a quarter portion" in response to tech they are not impressed with, possibly with accompanying bloke behind the counter.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

just realise kylos real name, ben solo, is him being named after ben kenobi  obvious thing was obvious


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 22, 2015)




----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

ska invita said:


> fact is every interplanetary sci fi tv film treats planets like a small village within which everything happens. Im thinking Blakes 7 and Star Trek


also here you have to remember budget constraints for televison sci fi. You simply can't do much more, or you couldn't in the days before cheap cgis

but you do have a sliver of a point
its often referred to in sci fi writing as the planet of hats problem


----------



## Crispy (Dec 22, 2015)

Aaargh I clicked a tvtropes link, you bastard.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 22, 2015)

They should surely have a podcast by now...?!


----------



## tommers (Dec 22, 2015)

Voley said:


> I reckon Han'll be back. Luke fell down a fucking great chasm like that once and came out alright. Just ended up hanging from a massive telly aerial. Next episode Han'll be discovered hanging off a Sky dish in the Dagobar system and all will be well.


The planet did blow up about ten minutes later.


----------



## Greebozz (Dec 22, 2015)

On a deep philosophical level, why should one person or small group of people be any better at writing a Star Wars sequel than  you or I.  We should all create our own Star Wars movie in our heads and have it the way we like it.  Rather like constructing a mine craft environment.  This film gives the imaginative building blocks to create our own thoughts.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

mate I've read fan fiction of many stripes and some of it really really should have stayed in the authors bank


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 22, 2015)

tommers said:


> Aren't they?  I thought they were all from Jango Fett?  I might be wrong though, the prequels didn't make much sense.



Nope. The original set were but from episode 4 onward they are all conscripted.


----------



## gaijingirl (Dec 22, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> So what do we think will be the iconic moments and memes that will be referenced over and over again for this one?
> 
> I'm going to open with "That one's garbage/The garbage will do" and "Do I talk first or you talk first? I talk first?".



The bit where they deliver bad news to Ben Solo and he goes postal and smashes up the control panel - reminded me a bit of that bit in Downfall.


----------



## The Octagon (Dec 22, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> The bit where they deliver bad news to Ben Solo and he goes postal and smashes up the control panel - reminded me a bit of that bit in Downfall.



The 2 Stormtroopers noping the fuck out of that corridor was my lol moment


----------



## gaijingirl (Dec 22, 2015)

The Octagon said:


> The 2 Stormtroopers noping the fuck out of that corridor was my lol moment



yeah, me too...   "err... maybe not eh?"...


----------



## IC3D (Dec 22, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Saw this last night. The power of star wars made it a must watch film, but had it been any other I could have just gone to bed at any point. I'm kind of glad I didn't bother going to the cinema. Watching it as less of an event put it more into context as a stand alone film. Not terrible but not great by any stretch. Solo death seemed like Harrison was just waiting to give up acting and go back to his trailer for coco.


You watched a cam screener of this film! You are misery personified and do not deserve to enjoy the cinema ever again.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 22, 2015)

I welled up watching this quite a bit more than I expected to. It's all a bit frenetic, but it was so good to see the old gang again, and I like Rey and Finn a lot. Good job everyone.

Kylo is a bit of a conflicted young man though, isn't he? Did Han knowingly sacrifice himself, in light of Leia's "Bring him back" plea? Hmmmm.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 22, 2015)

it is tempting to think han had a plan for which his death was a neccesary piece but I fear its just going to be a death. No force ghost either cos hans not a jedi. In time we will learn to live with his absence


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 22, 2015)

Max Landis made some good points about Rei.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 22, 2015)

IC3D said:


> You watched a cam screener of this film! You are misery personified and do not deserve to enjoy the cinema ever again.


Might take my daughter to see it when the woo hoo calms down. What rating is it?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 22, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Might take my daughter to see it when the woo hoo calms down. What rating is it?


12A


----------



## D'wards (Dec 22, 2015)

There's an Empire spoiler podcast about this at the moment that's worth a listen. They interview the screenwriter who has good insights, obv.

After Harrison was crushed by the door, they rerecorded all the scenes he had previously filmed. Something had changed in him and he acting was more emotional. JJ preferred it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 22, 2015)

D'wards said:


> There's an Empire spoiler podcast about this at the moment that's worth a listen. They interview the screenwriter who has good insights, obv.


Which one? JJ Abrahams, Michael Arndt or Lawrence Kasdan?
They clearly all know their shit, but at least Kasdan has pedigree cos he wrote Return and Empire.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 22, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> 12A


Oh, I don't know what the A is but I'm guessing passing my 8 year old for 12 won't wash.
I'd have never have gotten to see it at the cinema anyway then. Ho hum.


----------



## D'wards (Dec 22, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Which one? JJ Abrahams, Michael Arndt or Lawrence Kasdan?
> They clearly all know their shit, but at least Kasdan has pedigree cos he wrote Return and Empire.


Kasdan - interesting guy. Doesn't explicitly give his views on 1-3, but it kind of comes over...


----------



## D'wards (Dec 22, 2015)




----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 22, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh, I don't know what the A is but I'm guessing passing my 8 year old for 12 won't wash.
> I'd have never have gotten to see it at the cinema anyway then. Ho hum.



The A is for Advisory - basically the BBFC thinks 12 is about a safe cut-off age, but it's up to parents whether they think a younger child will be OK with it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 22, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh, I don't know what the A is but I'm guessing passing my 8 year old for 12 won't wash.
> I'd have never have gotten to see it at the cinema anyway then. Ho hum.


A is advisory I think, so I think it's up to you not the cinema, if your kid is under 12


----------



## D'wards (Dec 22, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> The A is for Advisory - basically the BBFC thinks 12 is about a safe cut-off age, but it's up to parents whether they think a younger child will be OK with it.


I as sitting next to a lad who couldn't have been older than 3, with his dad. Thought it was a bit young, and as the BBFC thing came up, with a warning for violence, he left before the film even started. Made me feel a bit sad - hope he got his money back - poor sod must have laid out £30 what with drinks etc. And the disappointment as well.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Dec 22, 2015)

I only had a few nightmares after seeing Jaws in the cinema when I was 7, and that had a vaguely equivalent rating back then.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 22, 2015)

ONe urbanite went with their 6 year old and survived! I think its a bit dark for that age but hey


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 22, 2015)

D'wards said:


> I as sitting next to a lad who couldn't have been older than 3, with his dad. Thought it was a bit young, and as the BBFC thing came up, with a warning for violence, he left before the film even started. Made me feel a bit sad - hope he got his money back - poor sod must have laid out £30 what with drinks etc. And the disappointment as well.


He should have done his research ffs!


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 22, 2015)

That Scone character wasn't very menacing was he? A bit sub-Harry Potter. Palpatine was way more sinister.

Also felt that Rey learned the force too easily - just so JJ could cut to the action as quick as possible. Bit of a shame because it takes the soul out of the films a little if the force is just magic with no philosophy behind it.

But I enjoyed it. It's been a long time since the last Star Wars film. Now there are four.


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 22, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> the return of a 'lived-in' feeling to the SW universe.


This was the best thing about the sets - grimy and developed enough to feel real. I liked the Rey's surviving-in-poverty storyline too. It makes the universe so much more real than royalty poncing about in CGI penthouse suites.


----------



## rubbershoes (Dec 22, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> A is advisory I think, so I think it's up to you not the cinema, if your kid is under 12



My 8 year old loved it


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 23, 2015)

Ok I'll ask her if she fancies it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2015)

Brainaddict said:


> it takes the soul out of the films a little if the force is just magic with no philosophy behind it


luke picked it up like it was no thang, had already been using it bullseying wamp rats in beggars canyon even if he knew it not. Rey's staff skills suggested it was latent. These aren't force users who have nascent talents to be drawn forth by training. They are raw power that needs to be tamed by the ways of the jedi lest it consume them and lead them to the dark side. Pulling off the jedi mind trick without training is a brilliant one. It reminded me of Paul Atredies using the Voice command in Dune.


----------



## Ted Striker (Dec 23, 2015)

Just back from it - been on hols for a few days and had way too long of avoidance anxiety mixed with anticipation so I can now breathe! 

A lot of my feelings are covered by the general theme of this thread - we can all relax, they didn't fuck it up.

The magic bits (Falcon reveal, spaceships generally, bb8/R2) were excellently done. Han gave a masterclass in unannoying wisecracking Hollywood superstar. The plot lines are so ridiculously similar (Han's fate was sealed as soon as the 4 sequential shots were set up of everyone getting their 'seat in the stand' to witness his execution...but the writers must have felt "well we tried pissing about with a crude political machinations and such and look where that got us? Let's get back to swordfights and dogfights and good vs evil".

That emporer mk2 is a bit naff tho.

Like I said, most of my thoughts have been aired here, save this...When Han has 2 groups of people after him, one of the groups has the 2 leads (supermegawhopping leads) from the Raid films. Absolute guvnors of the screen that are most of the appeal of 2 legendary films...And yet not only does it feel a bit if a cheat to use such 'known' actors, from the same films (altho this time on the same side) they do no martial arts! Not even a bit of parcour!  Much disappoint!

I also fear for the next one - I'm not a fan of esb so know we'll have 2 hours of moody plot development and no goodie redemption at the end  (that will come in ep9)


----------



## clandestino (Dec 23, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Saw this last night. The power of star wars made it a must watch film, but had it been any other I could have just gone to bed at any point. I'm kind of glad I didn't bother going to the cinema. Watching it as less of an event put it more into context as a stand alone film. Not terrible but not great by any stretch. Solo death seemed like Harrison was just waiting to give up acting and go back to his trailer for coco.



Excuse my naivety but how did you watch it without going to the cinema?


----------



## clandestino (Dec 23, 2015)

It occurred to me the other day that the reason that Rei was finishing Han's sentences wasn't simply that she knew her onions when it came to spaceships and stuff, but that she's his daughter. They were trying to show a similarity in genes/family rather than mere knowledge.

Who knows? It makes sense that she's Ben's sister, as they both have the force thing, but equally she could be Luke's daughter. 

Have to say, I'm disappointed that Abrams isn't directing the next one. Does that mean it's going to be dreadful?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 23, 2015)

Episodes 4,5 & 6 all had different directors. So not necessarily.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 23, 2015)

clandestino said:


> It occurred to me the other day that the reason that Rei was finishing Han's sentences wasn't simply that she knew her onions when it came to spaceships and stuff, but that she's his daughter. They were trying to show a similarity in genes/family rather than mere knowledge.
> 
> Who knows? It makes sense that she's Ben's sister, as they both have the force thing, but equally she could be Luke's daughter.
> 
> Have to say, I'm disappointed that Abrams isn't directing the next one. Does that mean it's going to be dreadful?


If they really are repeating history with the scripts then Han is her Grandfather not father.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> luke picked it up like it was no thang, had already been using it bullseying wamp rats in beggars canyon even if he knew it not. Rey's staff skills suggested it was latent. These aren't force users who have nascent talents to be drawn forth by training. They are raw power that needs to be tamed by the ways of the jedi lest it consume them and lead them to the dark side. Pulling off the jedi mind trick without training is a brilliant one. It reminded me of Paul Atredies using the Voice command in Dune.



just as Rey was all ninja skilled as a scavenger - which was also the excuse for her intimate knowledge of spacecraft.


Brainaddict said:


> Also felt that Rey learned the force too easily - just so JJ could cut to the action as quick as possible. Bit of a shame because it takes the soul out of the films a little if the force is just magic with no philosophy behind it.



the film ran 2hrs 10 - i bet theres footage enough for a great 3hrs extended cut that wouldve sorted out a fair few problems like this


----------



## ska invita (Dec 23, 2015)

clandestino said:


> It occurred to me the other day that the reason that Rei was finishing Han's sentences wasn't simply that she knew her onions when it came to spaceships and stuff, but that she's his daughter. They were trying to show a similarity in genes/family rather than mere knowledge.
> 
> Who knows? It makes sense that she's Ben's sister, as they both have the force thing, but equally she could be Luke's daughter.
> 
> Have to say, I'm disappointed that Abrams isn't directing the next one. Does that mean it's going to be dreadful?


good theory! incestuous star wars...

who is directing the next one?
Id like to see Spielberg do it 
Is there a release date for the next one?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 23, 2015)

ska invita said:


> who is directing the next one?
> Id like to see Spielberg do it
> Is there a release date for the next one?


Rian Johnson is directing Episode VIII And release date is currently 26th May 2017. 

 Rogue One : A Star Wars Story is being directed by Gareth Edwards and is due for release 16th December 2016


----------



## tommers (Dec 23, 2015)

That's my worry about it.  In five year's time we'll all be remembering when a Star Wars film wasn't an annual event.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 23, 2015)

tommers said:


> That's my worry about it.  In five year's time we'll all be remembering when a Star Wars film wasn't an annual event.


The next two will still be big events I expect, but I get the feeling they're going full on franchise with this and we'll be up to episode 13 in no time


----------



## Almost There (Dec 23, 2015)

The OH and I had a rare night off and finally got round to seeing this. Did anyone get the Clerks reference? It seems like I was the only one!


----------



## ska invita (Dec 23, 2015)

What





Almost There said:


> The OH and I had a rare night off and finally got round to seeing this. Did anyone get the Clerks reference? It seems like I was the only one!


What clerks reference?
I didn't really like poe that much, a bit too alpha male for me, start wars characters always felt s bit more outsidery to me. Glad he wasn't in it too much


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 23, 2015)

ska invita said:


> What clerks reference?


The revelation by Finn that stormtroopers do work in sanitation, rather than outsourcing to civilian contractors.


----------



## Almost There (Dec 23, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> The revelation by Finn that stormtroopers do work in sanitation, rather than outsourcing to civilian contractors.


Yes, that was it!


----------



## ska invita (Dec 23, 2015)

So the Gareth Edwards rogue one thing, that takes place between 3 and 4... Are they planning lots of these little spin offs, and are they going to be in any particular order? Are they going to be a bit smaller budget?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 23, 2015)

clandestino said:


> Have to say, I'm disappointed that Abrams isn't directing the next one. Does that mean it's going to be dreadful?





Lazy Llama said:


> Rain Johnson is directing Episode VIII And release date is currently 26th May 2017.


R*ia*n Johnson - normally I'd quell my pedantry but that typo makes him sound like one of those them there Hollywood hippy types 

His first film is one of my favourite ever, Brick, and he has since directed The Brothers Bloom and mid-level sci-fi time-travel hyphen-fest Looper.

Side note: Duncan Jones, the director of one of my other favourite films, Moon, has been given the reins to the upcoming mega-epic Warhammer, and it's really interesting to see these guys who have directed smaller, intelligent films be given these massive blockbuster spectacles to work with.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 23, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> R*ia*n Johnson - normally I'd quell my pedantry but that typo


It was auto-corrected, I typed it correctly.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 23, 2015)

There's a comp on Facebook to win one of these pairs of 3D glasses. I've been staying relatively ambivalent to the avalanche of merch tie-ins, but these are pretty nifty 







(Ren and Stormtrooper, in case it's not clear - I thought one of them were Rey's goggles  )


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 23, 2015)

Lazy Llama said:


> It was auto-corrected, I typed it correctly.


Fair dos


----------



## D'wards (Dec 23, 2015)

tommers said:


> That's my worry about it.  In five year's time we'll all be remembering when a Star Wars film wasn't an annual event.


I'm with you on this. When we had a superhero drought I was well into the new Spider-Man, X-Men and Batman films - but Marvel have well and truly hammered that genre into the ground.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2015)

D'wards said:


> I'm with you on this. When we had a superhero drought I was well into the new Spider-Man, X-Men and Batman films - but Marvel have well and truly hammered that genre into the ground.


show no sign of slowing down on that one either. They've got decades of comic book material to milk before that cash cow is dry


----------



## Thora (Dec 23, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Oh, I don't know what the A is but I'm guessing passing my 8 year old for 12 won't wash.
> I'd have never have gotten to see it at the cinema anyway then. Ho hum.


I took my 5 year old to see it, it was fine.  The only bits I was a bit  about were the villagers being massacred and those tentacle monster things, but he wasn't bothered.  Actually the worst thing was some of the trailers for 12 films before Star Wars - he was quite upset about Captain America hurting Iron Man


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2015)

Tony Stark's an ex arms dealer so the more slaps he gets the better. Even if it is Captain Nationalism dealing them out


----------



## Thora (Dec 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Tony Stark's an ex arms dealer so the more slaps he gets the better. Even if it is Captain Nationalism dealing them out


He's not seen any of the films so he only knows them as action figures and Lego superheroes!


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Dec 23, 2015)

Having seen the film (thoroughly enjoyed) I think the answer to this:



is that it is back!


----------



## D'wards (Dec 23, 2015)

Before I saw it some nob posted a lot of spoilers on Facebook, cos he thought it'd be funny. It wasn't and I was, and still am, thoroughly pissed off about it. He's a colleague but now works on another floor, which is lucky cos I don't think I will talk to him again - primarily for the spoilers but also cos I wouldn't want to associate with someone who gets kicks on ruining things for people.

Some may say its a trifling matter, but I've been a Star Wars fan since the age of 4, and have waited years for this film


----------



## BoxRoom (Dec 23, 2015)

D'wards said:


> Before I saw it some nob posted a lot of spoilers on Facebook, cos he thought it'd be funny. It wasn't and I was, and still am, thoroughly pissed off about it. He's a colleague but now works on another floor, which is lucky cos I don't think I will talk to him again - primarily for the spoilers but also cos I wouldn't want to associate with someone who gets kicks on ruining things for people.
> 
> Some may say its a trifling matter, but I've been a Star Wars fan since the age of 4, and have waited years for this film



I don't personally think it's a trifling matter. Someone I know on Facebook did a similar thing and I wanted to punch him in the throat. Luckily I'd already seen the film and got to it without being spoiled but it pisses me off that he has spoiled it for others.
I'm still being so very careful about what I say about the film online, even in public too! Talking with my girlfriend about it as we travelled home I was lowering my voice and miming certain parts. Must have looked like a right tool.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 23, 2015)

D'wards said:


> Some may say its a trifling matter, but I've been a Star Wars fan since the age of 4, and have waited years for this film


I don't think it's a trifling thing at all. It really is the action of a knob - there's no motivation other than to spoil someone's enjoyment. It's not like you're making some noble attempt to reveal hidden truths about the lies we tell ourselves, you're simply saying "hey, I know you don't want to know this, but I'm going to tell you".

It's bullshit, and I hate it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2015)

why not punch him in the throat anyway? or put a dog turd in his desk drawer


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 23, 2015)

BoxRoom said:


> Talking with my girlfriend about it as we travelled home I was lowering my voice and miming certain parts. Must have looked like a right tool.


In the minicab home after seeing it my brother and I didn't say a word about it in case the cabbie wanted to watch it  

We had had time while waiting for him to arrive to chat about it though, so we weren't being that restrained.


----------



## tommers (Dec 23, 2015)

Or kill him. Go on.  Do it.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 23, 2015)

its funny everyone i know who has seen it has been really thoughtful and respectful  about not spoiling it for anyone which i think is really nice.

One friend did put some spoilers on FB, but not so much in a ner ner way but generally to discuss , so i posted ' i really hope this isnt spoiling it for anyone' to which he then put up a spoiler alert  on the posts, but im still not sure i want to interact with him that much in the future, as i do kinda think he did it on purpose. 

If i hadnt seen it beofre his posts i dont think we would be mates anymore lol


----------



## Diamond (Dec 23, 2015)

Alright but not massively impressed.

Will probably give it a second go.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2015)

Diamond said:


> Alright but not massively impressed.
> 
> Will probably give it a second go.


good for you


----------



## Diamond (Dec 23, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> good for you



You are in full on eejit mode today, aren't you?

And I bet you think that (i) you are being funny (ii) that what you contribute is of value and (iii) it's worthwhile to make every thread an exemplification of your petty vendetta.

How about you shove off and we can get back to the subject at hand which, and apologies to break this to you, is not actually you...?


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 23, 2015)

Diamond said:


> You are in full on eejit mode today, aren't you?
> 
> And I bet you think that (i) you are being funny (ii) that what you contribute is of value and (iii) it's worthwhile to make every thread an exemplification of your petty vendetta.
> 
> How about you shove off and we can get back to the subject at hand which, and apologies to break this to you, is not actually you...?


i think it good of you to give the film another chance: that was all i meant. from your disproportionate response to an innocuous post it's clear that there's only one "eejit" here and you seem determined to make sure everyone knows it's you.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 23, 2015)

Oi! The Star Wars thread is not the place for bickering!


----------



## Ted Striker (Dec 23, 2015)

Not here


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 23, 2015)

hate leads to the dark side young padawans


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2015)

Diamond said:


> Alright but not massively impressed.
> 
> Will probably give it a second go.


3d? or 2d? I may give it a second watch in 3d if my shonky eyes are up to it. Works fine in 2d but I feel like I am missing out somehow by not watching the 3d


----------



## Diamond (Dec 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> 3d? or 2d? I may give it a second watch in 3d if my shonky eyes are up to it. Works fine in 2d but I feel like I am missing out somehow by not watching the 3d



3d but never have been massively impressed by that tech anyway aside from the one time I saw the JJ Abrams Star Trek at the IMAX, which was awesome


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2015)

tommers said:


> Or kill him. Go on.  Do it.


give into your hatred etc


----------



## clandestino (Dec 23, 2015)

D'wards said:


> Before I saw it some nob posted a lot of spoilers on Facebook, cos he thought it'd be funny. It wasn't and I was, and still am, thoroughly pissed off about it. He's a colleague but now works on another floor, which is lucky cos I don't think I will talk to him again - primarily for the spoilers but also cos I wouldn't want to associate with someone who gets kicks on ruining things for people.
> 
> Some may say its a trifling matter, but I've been a Star Wars fan since the age of 4, and have waited years for this film



It's not trifling at all. I went to a 9.45am screening on the day of release precisely because I thought some numptie would blurt stuff out Facebook. As it turns out, no-one has. I should have trusted my FB friends more. 

<insert lack of faith comment here>


----------



## xenon (Dec 23, 2015)

Just seen it.


----------



## xenon (Dec 23, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> snoke wanted him and the imperial fellar to report to him , then rey kicked the shit out of him, so its unclear but somehow i think he must have been saved, #patriciadalkillertwat , #stillangrylol



Obv not dead. Snoke said the training thing after that fight.


----------



## Santino (Dec 23, 2015)

Just got to wondering if Mark Hamill is now the highest paid actor ever measured by dollars/screentime for a single film.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 23, 2015)

Santino said:


> Just got to wondering if Mark Hamill is now the highest paid actor ever measured by dollars/screentime for a single film.


I think that honour goes to Anthony Daniels. I think he claims to be the most successful screen actor of all time.


----------



## Brainaddict (Dec 23, 2015)

The more I think about the film, the more I feel the highlight was Rey as the main protagonist. All the old heroes did nothing for me really. Daisy Ridley was a better actor than any of them, and her character was more interesting - hopefully will become more interesting with time.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 23, 2015)

Am staying with family and just got handed a very important document by a young padawan


though i think his heart lies with the dark side....


====

some good points in this


----------



## killer b (Dec 23, 2015)

What difference do people think knowing a couple of plot points from a film makes to your enjoyment of the film?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> What difference do people think knowing a couple of plot points from a film makes to your enjoyment of the film?


Not much. I knew Han was going to die and still enjoyed it. 


Seems like I'm going to see it again on Monday, with the family.


----------



## killer b (Dec 23, 2015)

I wouldn't do it myself, but I can understand why some might feel provoked to do so - the daily updates of man-children demanding star wars not be spoiled has reached fever pitch this last week. It's been massively irritating - some tool posted this on Thursday






While I'll never know what extra heights of ecstacy I might have reached had I not read somewhere that Han gets killed by his own progeny, and Luke doesn't appear until the final shot, it'd have to be a pretty shit film if those particular reveals were enough to spoil it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> I wouldn't do it myself, but I can understand why some might feel provoked to do so - the daily updates of man-children demanding star wars not be spoiled has reached fever pitch this last week. It's been massively irritating - some tool posted this on Thursday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


indeed. It's no Sixth Sense.


----------



## killer b (Dec 23, 2015)

I don't even remember spoilers being a thing until fairly recently - probably about the time of 6th sense, now you mention it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2015)

cain killing abel was spoiled for me


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 23, 2015)

And someone spoiled Hamlet for me when they called it a tragedy.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> I don't even remember spoilers being a thing until fairly recently - probably about the time of 6th sense, now you mention it.


Indeed, remember The Empire Strikes Back? That was 'spoiled' to fuck before most people saw it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2015)

I've always cared more for the how it is done rather than expecting original twists never before found in literature. Its all in the execution.

But other people get the right hump so why be a dick about it? 

That said I'm glad I didn't know hans death was coming cos I hadn't expected it so soon. Thought he'd get at least a reunion with luke at some point.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I've always cared more for the how it is done rather than expecting original twists never before found in literature. Its all in the execution.
> 
> But other people get the right hump so why be a dick about it?
> 
> That said I'm glad I didn't know hans death was coming cos I hadn't expected it so soon. Thought he'd get at least a reunion with luke at some point.


Luke can commune with the dead so he still might.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 23, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Luke can commune with the dead so he still might.


only force ghosts, Hans well and truly crossed over


----------



## Gromit (Dec 23, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> only force ghosts, Hans well and truly crossed over


The force binds us all... to the writers' ability to rewrite canon if it suits em.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Dec 24, 2015)

Went to see it again last night, this time with Mrs Llama. 
Noticed a few things I missed the first time. 
At Maz's building, one of the flags is the 501st Legion (Imperial costuming org). 
When Kylo Ren is interrogating Rey, he reads her mind and says he sees an ocean and an island, so either that island is on the map that Rey saw or she has some other way of knowing. 

Still didn't spot R2-KT though.


----------



## T & P (Dec 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> 3d? or 2d? I may give it a second watch in 3d if my shonky eyes are up to it. Works fine in 2d but I feel like I am missing out somehow by not watching the 3d


I watched it last night in 3D at the IMAX. It was okay (the 3D aspect of it) but not that amazing, and left me wishing I'd booked 2D tickets. Still, an excuse to watch it again at the cinema.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 24, 2015)

Looking forward to seeing it again next week, third time and second in IMAX.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 24, 2015)

Well, I liked it


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Dec 24, 2015)

It was alright.  Not a huge star wars fan, but JJ Abrams is consistently entertaining and the hype was so huge that I ended up being pretty excited about this. 

Yay - the using real sets with minimal greenscreen really paid off visually.  Finn & Rey were both likeable.  Han Solo and Wookie were written in keeping with the original films, giving it a proper "sequel" feel and injecting a bit of charisma into the whole thing (not usually a word associated with Harrison Ford, but appropriate for his Star Wars character).  Dog fights with x-wings and what have you were awesome.

Meh - end light-sabre fight, could have been a bit more martial-arty; didn't have to go full "Yoda turning from frail old man into sword wielding ninja-cat", but choreography could have been more interesting.  Lack of Luke Skywalker, and the massive build-up for a 30-second (that should have been 5 second) shot of Rey meeting him.

Grrr - shit baddie. 

I give it a 7.  Really depends how good the sequels are, how interestingly they tie up some of the unexplained stuff (Reys parents, Lukes disappearance) and how well they develop the two "new leads" characters', as to how history will judge it.


----------



## Cloo (Dec 24, 2015)

Wasn't as amazeballs as I'd expected from people's reactions but will certainly do.

I actually approve of light sabre fights not being all ninja wirework stuff and just being good old fights; that kind of acrobatic fighting shtick feels very passe these days. Agree characters were good, it's a story that leaves you wanting to see where it will go and all the setpieces were good.

Had no idea about who was going to die, but somehow the moment Chewie and Han separated to plant the explosives, I was sure one of them was going to die, but wasn't sure which.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Dec 24, 2015)

Saw it second time this morning and it was more emotional by far - whether this was cos the kids were there or simply that there was less surprise involved for me, or I was noticing more...I had a bit of a cry at the final shot. Also at the end something happened I've rarely if ever seen at the pictures - the audience applauded.


----------



## Cloo (Dec 25, 2015)

I think we got a smattering of applause when Rey felled Kylo.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Dec 25, 2015)

We got applause at the entrance of Han+Chewie, the entrance of Leia, and Rey's force-yoinking the lightsaber into her hands.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 25, 2015)

this was mentioned up thread but not posted...and its basically true...


----------



## ska invita (Dec 25, 2015)

S☼I said:


> I had a bit of a cry at the final shot.


why? whats emotional about that bit?


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 25, 2015)

ska invita said:


> this was mentioned up thread but not posted...and its basically true...




Not really. There are lots of (force-using) characters in the Star Wars universe who pick up skills really easily. Luke is instantly a great pilot. Anakin is an ace mechanic and pilot as a child. Like Anakin, Rey makes a living scavenging parts from spacecraft, like Luke, she evidently has some experience flying ships and speeders. 

At a stretch he's right about learning force skills like mind tricks and telekinesis without training.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 25, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> Not really. There are lots of (force-using) characters in the Star Wars universe who pick up skills really easily. Luke is instantly a great pilot. Anakin is an ace mechanic and pilot as a child. Like Anakin, Rey makes a living scavenging parts from spacecraft, like Luke, she evidently has some experience flying ships and speeders.
> 
> At a stretch he's right about learning force skills like mind tricks and telekinesis without training.


did you watch the video? he makes a direct comparison with luke - its not that she picks it up quickly, its that theres nothing at stake as she wins at everything immediately - shes too perfect - whereas luke fails regularly

though i agree with you about the speed thing


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 25, 2015)

ska invita said:


> did you watch the video? he makes a direct comparison with luke - its not that she picks it up quickly, its that theres nothing at stake as she wins at everything immediately - shes too perfect - whereas luke fails regularly


Yeah, I watched it. Luke succeeds at lots of stuff without training. He wanders around the Death Star killing storm troopers (Trained soldiers!) at will, despite having no combat experience. He can fly an X-Wing better than anyone else, despite never having previously left Tatooine. 

Even the training scene involves him moving from being OK with a lightsaber with his eyes open to being able to use the force to guide it after about 5 minutes of tuition from Obi-wan. 

Rey also does fail at stuff. She accidentally lets the monsters out on Han's freighter, she gets captured by Kylo Ren, she gets knocked out at the beginning of the final fight scene.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 25, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> Yeah, I watched it. Luke succeeds at lots of stuff without training. He wanders around the Death Star killing storm troopers (Trained soldiers!) at will, despite having no combat experience. He can fly an X-Wing better than anyone else, despite never having previously left Tatooine.
> 
> Even the training scene involves him moving from being OK with a lightsaber with his eyes open to being able to use the force to guide it after about 5 minutes of tuition from Obi-wan.
> 
> Rey also does fail at stuff. She accidentally lets the monsters out on Han's freighter, she gets captured by Kylo Ren, she gets knocked out at the beginning of the final fight scene.



good case!


----------



## Cloo (Dec 25, 2015)

Thought just occurred to me... Kylo Ren says that he wants to finish what Vader started. Vader would presumably be considered a traitor if it was known he killed the Emperor, but I guess as no one else was around, everyone just assumed Luke killed him and Vader?

Mentioned this to gsv and he said that could lead to a potentially interesting story arc... maybe it is know what Vader did and he _is _considered a traitor, and what Ren wants to 'finish' is destroying the Empire, but he's trying to find the power to resist the Dark Side - hence why he wants to find Skywalker, and what he says to Han.  Possibly he even joined the Dark Side in an effort to destroy it for inside but was overtaken by it?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Dec 25, 2015)

Cloo said:


> Thought just occurred to me... Kylo Ren says that he wants to finish what Vader started. Vader would presumably be considered a traitor if it was known he killed the Emperor, but I guess as no one else was around, everyone just assumed Luke killed him and Vader?
> 
> Mentioned this to gsv and he said that could lead to a potentially interesting story arc... maybe it is know what Vader did and he _is _considered a traitor, and what Ren wants to 'finish' is destroying the Empire, but he's trying to find the power to resist the Dark Side - hence why he wants to find Skywalker, and what he says to Han.  Possibly he even joined the Dark Side in an effort to destroy it for inside but was overtaken by it?


I'm not sure. As I understand it the standard practice for Sith is for the apprentice to overthrow (or at least attempt to) the master, so I'm not sure he'd be considered a traitor.

He says as much to Luke, something along the lines of "you are destined to defeat the Emperor, he has foreseen it". I think it's part of completing your journey to the Dark Side.


----------



## Ted Striker (Dec 25, 2015)

Didn't the First Order want to destroy the Empire (and that was the first use of Death Star 3?)


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2015)

I dealt with the 'rey gets it all too easily' nonsense back on page 10, to them (rey, the skywalkers)  'the force is strong  in my family' etcthe jedi learning is a taming influence on raw power not a discipline used to call forth minor abilities.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 25, 2015)

Jon-of-arc said:


> It was alright.  Not a huge star wars fan, but JJ Abrams is consistently entertaining and the hype was so huge that I ended up being pretty excited about this.
> 
> Yay - the using real sets with minimal greenscreen really paid off visually.  Finn & Rey were both likeable.  Han Solo and Wookie were written in keeping with the original films, giving it a proper "sequel" feel and injecting a bit of charisma into the whole thing (not usually a word associated with Harrison Ford, but appropriate for his Star Wars character).  Dog fights with x-wings and what have you were awesome.
> 
> ...



I don't the lack of gymnastics with light sabre fights, if you watch the original it was never over the top...


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 25, 2015)

this is explained in the star wars lore, we went over it on the other thread. Theres a technical explanation as to why lightsabres basically handle with the weight and balance of soething cloder to a claymore or broadsword rather than the light fencing type thing 'sabre' might suggest. Mortal man ain doing no backflips holding a claymore. That the jedia are able to introduce and kind of acrobatics to a duel is through force assistance


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Dec 25, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I dealt with the 'rey gets it all too easily' nonsense back on page 10, to them (rey, the skywalkers)  '*the force is strong  in my family*' etcthe jedi learning is a taming influence on raw power not a discipline used to call forth minor abilities.



That trailer was entirely misleading. Made me think we was gonna get some Skywalker by at least end of act 2. Don't think he even got a line. I'm suing.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 25, 2015)

Ted Striker said:


> Didn't the First Order want to destroy the Empire (and that was the first use of Death Star 3?)


It was the planets of the post-DS2 restored Republic they were destroying, I believe.


----------



## DrRingDing (Dec 25, 2015)

Just saw it - excellent. 

He didn't fuck it up!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 26, 2015)

Just watched it again. Changed my mind a bit about the girl, not complely super human and without flaws, and nicely done. However, its actually a pretty dull film, I think the only reason I stuck with it the first time was just to get through it.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 26, 2015)

I just saw it again too. Nothing new really struck me about it second time around other than...

Why does the Rey character:
A) Have cut off trousers on a hot desert planet?
B) Have bandages wrapped around each arm?
C) Not have a tan or seem to not have acclimatised to the heat in the 14 odd years she's lived there. She was sweaty and heat blotchy occasionally and pasty white. 

I didn't see her plastering on any factor 50 at any time. 

A and B is down to that stupid female vanity thing of styling clothes so that there is always extra flesh on show even when it's not practical. Be it snow or heat you just don't cover up. Gotta show a bit of leg, shoulder or arm!


----------



## Gromit (Dec 26, 2015)

Oh and lightsabers. They easily slice through trees. In previous episodes they easily slice through flash n bone. 

Yet Finn just gets scorched across his back not sliced in two and Kylo Ren just gets a couple of flesh wounds and a scar across his face. Pants.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Dec 26, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Oh and lightsabers. They easily slice through trees. In previous episodes they easily slice through flash n bone.
> 
> Yet Finn just gets scorched across his back not sliced in two and Kylo Ren just gets a couple of flesh wounds and a scar across his face. Pants.



Wasn't that because it was just the tip of the light sword scratching them, rather than a full slice through face/body?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 26, 2015)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Wasn't that because it was just the tip of the light sword scratching them, rather than a full slice through face/body?



The position/ distance she was in for her last blow against him should have taken his head off. To just graze him like that she would have had to been deliberately bending the angle of her wrists abnormally backwards.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 26, 2015)

This was quite good.
Article on how the prequels could have been great.
George Lucas nearly wrote a perfect prequel trilogy. He just didn't notice


----------



## Santino (Dec 26, 2015)

Lightsabers were never magical cutting-through-anything swords. They're the equivalent of very sharp swords, but you need to put some power into your stroke.


----------



## Santino (Dec 26, 2015)

Gromit said:


> A and B is down to that stupid female vanity thing of styling clothes so that there is always extra flesh on show even when it's not practical. Be it snow or heat you just don't cover up. Gotta show a bit of leg, shoulder or arm!


You should make a New Year's resolution not to be a sexist cunt.


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 26, 2015)

Santino said:


> You should make a New Year's resolution not to be a sexist cunt.


Don't hold your breasts


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Dec 26, 2015)

Santino said:


> Lightsabers were never magical cutting-through-anything swords. They're the equivalent of very sharp swords, but you need to put some power into your stroke.



what would happen if you tried to hit the beam of light of one being held completely still with an open palmed slap?  Or just touched the tip with the tip of your own finger?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 26, 2015)

Santino said:


> You should make a New Year's resolution not to be a sexist cunt.


Don't blame me for Lucasfilm perpetuating masoginistic stereotypes that further pressure women to conform to illogical sexualised clothing options.


----------



## Santino (Dec 26, 2015)

Jon-of-arc said:


> what would happen if you tried to hit the beam of light of one being held completely still with an open palmed slap?  Or just touched the tip with the tip of your own finger?


You'd probably get a bit singed.


----------



## Santino (Dec 26, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Don't blame me for Lucasfilm perpetuating masoginistic stereotypes that further pressure women to conform to illogical sexualised clothing options.


And yet somehow you found an excuse to criticise female vanity.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Dec 26, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I just saw it again too. Nothing new really struck me about it second time around other than...
> 
> Why does the Rey character:
> A) Have cut off trousers on a hot desert planet?
> ...



I don't see how it's possible to enjoy any sci-fi movie when you're thinking about this kind of stuff.


----------



## eoin_k (Dec 26, 2015)

The mistake all you haters have made is not bringing a six year old along to the cinema with you, dressed up as a storm trooper.


----------



## tommers (Dec 27, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I just saw it again too. Nothing new really struck me about it second time around other than...
> 
> Why does the Rey character:
> A) Have cut off trousers on a hot desert planet?
> ...



Actually I've just read the Star Wars Visual Dictionary and this is covered on page 30. Ray's skin has "adapted to extreme UV radiation" and she has "tight bindings to keep out the sun and sand". 

There is also a picture of her covered head to toe,  with her "goggles made out of stormtrooper helmet lenses". 

Hope that helps clear up any confusion.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Sitting down to watch it in 3D..


----------



## Steel Icarus (Dec 27, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> Sitting down to watch it in 3D..


Cool. Now turn your phone off!


----------



## emanymton (Dec 27, 2015)

Just watched it this morning. I don't have much to add beyond what has been said.

I just want to moan about people taking very young children to see films like this. There was a girl sat just behind me who must have been about 4, which is much too young in my opinion. She didn't seem distressed by it, just board. She cried and whined through most of the film and about half way through started crying for her toys. Really fucking ruined it for me. I just couldn't settle into watching the film. Every time I thought she'd calmed down and I was getting into it, she'd start up again. I might see it again, but not sure it can have the same impact now. It bugs me, there were about 3 or 4 adults and one of them should have left with her when it was obvious how board she was. It would be better for the kid and better for the rest of the audience. I guess it's just a mindset of we've paid so we have to make her sit through the whole thing. People treat a 12a like it's a U. 

Anyway as for the film itself, I did like seeing Ren act with really anger on a couple of occasions. The Sith always seemed far to controlled for me, for people who have meant to have embraced hate and anger. Sure Vader force chokes a few people, but he always seems so calm about it, you don't get a sense of rage, like you do with Ren.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2015)

emanymton said:


> The Sith always seemed far to controlled for me, for people who have meant to have embraced hate and anger. Sure Vader force chokes a few people, but he always seems so calm about it, you don't get a sense of rage, like you do with Ren.


thats why I see cultist Ren as the wannabe vader rather than the real deal sith yet. As I understand the cold controlled rages and pleasure in paying that anger off- think palpatines glee as the plans come together and his foes are trapped utterly- thats the siths pleasure in anger, in hatred. Ren displays hot rage, a semi normal psyche losing it and punching the tele. Not brooding on it bitterly and crafting subtle and horrific vengeance like a proper sith would. Probs half the reason Snokes recons he needs to complete his training in the dark side.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 27, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> thats why I see cultist Ren as the wannabe vader rather than the real deal sith yet. As I understand the cold controlled rages and pleasure in paying that anger off- think palpatines glee as the plans come together and his foes are trapped utterly- thats the siths pleasure in anger, in hatred. Ren displays hot rage, a semi normal psyche losing it and punching the tele. Not brooding on it bitterly and crafting subtle and horrific vengeance like a proper sith would. Probs half the reason Snokes recons he needs to complete his training in the dark side.


Yeah, he seems to still be in the process of falling, rather than being all the way there. I was thinking a bit about his back story. My theory is that as the nephew of Luke and son of Han and Leia, there were massive expectations on him to be the best Jedi of the new generation, and he cracked under the pressure and turned to the dark side. I also think he will come back to the light side at some point.


----------



## tommers (Dec 27, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Yeah, he seems to still be in the process of falling, rather than being all the way there. I was thinking a bit about his back story. My theory is that as the nephew of Luke and son of Han and Leia, there were massive expectations on him to be the best Jedi of the new generation, and he cracked under the pressure and turned to the dark side. I also think he will come back to the light side at some point.



The crystal in his lightsaber is cracked, which is why it has exhaust ports that make the sideguards. 

Although he has just killed his dad.  Hard to come back from that one.  Maybe it's going to go all "We need to talk about Kevin".


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 27, 2015)

I want rey to go to the dark side and Ren come back to the light to have to bring her back , would make a interesting story imo


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 27, 2015)

if its wishlist I want a twi'lek force user and former protege of luke to also turn up and be jedi-ish. That would be good, maybe we get that in the next one


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 27, 2015)

From a book I got for Christmas


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Is that the dad Vader one ?


----------



## twentythreedom (Dec 27, 2015)

ruffneck23 said:


> Is that the dad Vader one ?


The one I got is called Darth Vader And Friends


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 27, 2015)

Ah cool another one , il take a look


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 27, 2015)

S☼I said:


> Cool. Now turn your phone off!


Really ? I posted during the ads for travel agents , curry houses and BMWs

Anyway second time round , didn't really feel the 3D but I was just  as captivated , which is great imo , still don't think it was perfect but this time I could take in the cinematography .

That first act on jakku really is beautiful


----------



## Athos (Dec 28, 2015)

It's ok, I suppose, but doesn't come close to living up to all the hype.  In my opinion, if it was a standalone film i.e. not part of the Star Wars franchise, it'd be soon forgotten.  But Star Wars seems to attract these 'superfans' (mostly middle-aged men who are encouraging their kids to get into this out of a sense of nostalgia) who are determined that it'll be an event, regardless of the quality of the film.  Then again, despite being pretty shit (rubbish effects, predicatable plots and awful dialogue), the original films seemed to capture kids' imaginations.

It's all a bit of a mystery to me; I just don't get what it is about Star Wars that we're all supposed to be excited about.  But when I say that, some people seem genuinely offended; I was railroaded into seeing it yesterday by family (who had seen it before!), and, afterwards, they couldn't quite believe that I didn't think it was brilliant (and that I nipped out half way through to get a cuppa).


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2015)

Athos said:


> It's ok, I suppose, but doesn't come close to living up to all the hype.  In my opinion, if it was a standalone film i.e. not part of the Star Wars franchise, it'd be soon forgotten.  But Star Wars seems to attract these 'superfans' (*mostly middle-aged men who are encouraging their kids to get into this out of a sense of nostalgia)* who are determined that it'll be an event, regardless of the quality of the film.  Then again, despite being pretty shit (rubbish effects, predicatable plots and awful dialogue), the original films seemed to capture kids' imaginations.
> 
> It's all a bit of a mystery to me; I just don't get what it is about Star Wars that we're all supposed to be excited about.  But when I say that, some people seem genuinely offended; I was railroaded into seeing it yesterday by family (who had seen it before!), and, afterwards, they couldn't quite believe that I didn't think it was brilliant (and that I nipped out half way through to get a cuppa).


the bolded is a huge assumption and actually quite reactionary. Women sci fi fans and women sci fi creators in film and literature have had that assumption for far too long.

fair enough that you didn't think it that great- for me the original series seen as a child off my own back and never encouraged in it by parents, along with various other things like the classic sci fi authors, Doctor Who, naff shows like buck rogers etc are more or less responsible for influencing what I read and watch today. I am niether middle aged or with child 

Theres a lot of this- and I do think it has _some _truth- in the reviews I have read from some. That it was feted on the back of some serious nostalgia and is essentially a pastiche of New Hope. I think thats probably the sondest crit I have read and agree with. Other things (clunky dialouge in places, dubious plotting, 'the science is wrong!') are all just 'well thats star wars'. Space dogfights and lazer sword duels are the meat and drink of it.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 28, 2015)

Athos said:


> It's ok, I suppose, but doesn't come close to living up to all the hype.  In my opinion, if it was a standalone film i.e. not part of the Star Wars franchise, it'd be soon forgotten.  But Star Wars seems to attract these 'superfans' (mostly middle-aged men who are encouraging their kids to get into this out of a sense of nostalgia) who are determined that it'll be an event, regardless of the quality of the film.  Then again, despite being pretty shit (rubbish effects, predicatable plots and awful dialogue), the original films seemed to capture kids' imaginations.
> 
> It's all a bit of a mystery to me; I just don't get what it is about Star Wars that we're all supposed to be excited about.  But when I say that, some people seem genuinely offended; I was railroaded into seeing it yesterday by family (who had seen it before!), and, afterwards, they couldn't quite believe that I didn't think it was brilliant (and that I nipped out half way through to get a cuppa).


I love the original films, but yeah I think a lot of that is nostalgia. The new one is a perfectly competent film, but I'm not sure it's more than that. Like most of the Marvel films the're competently made and pass a couple of hours enjoyably enough, but no more than that. Although I think I prefer Guardians of the Galaxy to the new Star Wars. And the last planet of the apes film gets my vote as the best action film of recent years.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2015)

I really couldn't get on with GoG. On paper its right up my street, on screen it just felt like a mess. Maybe if I'd read the original comics I might have had more time for it but in the end I just didn't give a shit about anyone in it or what they were doing


----------



## Athos (Dec 28, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the bolded is a huge assumption and actually quite reactionary. Women sci fi fans and women sci fi creators in film and literature have had that assumption for far too long.
> 
> fair enough that you didn't think it that great- for me the original series seen as a child off my own back and never encouraged in it by parents, along with various other things like the classic sci fi authors, Doctor Who, naff shows like buck rogers etc are more or less responsible for influencing what I read and watch today. I am niether middle aged or with child
> 
> Theres a lot of this- and I do think it has _some _truth- in the reviews I have read from some. That it was feted on the back of some serious nostalgia and is essentially a pastiche of New Hope. I think thats probably the sondest crit I have read and agree with. Other things (clunky dialouge in places, dubious plotting, 'the science is wrong!') are all just 'well thats star wars'. Space dogfights and lazer sword duels are the meat and drink of it.



To be fair, I didn't say it's *only* middle aged men with kids.  But, whilst the vast majority of the people who talk to me about Star Wars fall into that category, that's propbably more a reflection of the people with whom I interact, rather than the fanbase as a whole.

You're right about it being a pastiche of the first one, too.  And I guess that plays into the nostalgia thing; make essentially the same film, to appeal to the people who liked it first time around - important droid carrying a message, familial baddie, scene in cantina, somewhat reluctant hero (Han Solo in the first one, Finnin this one), fascistic baddies, the need to blow up an enemy base, the death of an older mentor, the baddies report to an even badder baddie (Palpatine/the geezer in this one), female hero captured and rescue attempt, tortured hero, rebel forest base, etc., etc..  There really was nothing siginifiant that was new in this latest offering.  The best that can be said is that it isn't as shit as the prequels.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 28, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I really couldn't get on with GoG. On paper its right up my street, on screen it just felt like a mess. Maybe if I'd read the original comics I might have had more time for it but in the end I just didn't give a shit about anyone in it or what they were doing


Now it thought it was great, it's pretty close to an out and out comedy at times though, so it can depend on how you feel about that apart from anything else. I mean I can imagine some people hating the dance off bit at the end, but I thought it was hilarious.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 28, 2015)

Athos said:


> The best that can be said is that it isn't as shit as the prequels.


I wounder if this is one reason it is being hyped so much, it's just one huge big collective sigh of relief.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2015)

Athos said:


> The best that can be said is that it isn't as shit as the prequels


For fans of star wars thats our 30 years of hurt healed lol. I do need a re-watch to go with a more objective lense but I'm not paying another 11 pounds 60, I'll wait for a decent copy on download. This time of year is too expensive what with family birthdays also crashing down in the same period.

When I re-watched the originals in prep for this I skipped New Hope entirely as for me ESB and RotJ are the better films. If this lot follow a similar trajectory the next one should be...tauter. As discussed above I'm not buying Kylo as a real Vader yet and niether are we supposed to. The vader of the originals came to us fully formed as an implacable and relentless evil.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2015)

emanymton said:


> I wounder if this is one reason it is being hyped so much, it's just one huge big collective sigh of relief.


not 100%.
 Its the best crit because it contains some truth but as a star wars film alone it stands head and shoulders over the prequels. I should think the overwhelmingly positive responses from demographics too young to have original film nostalgia tm can attest to that. Its also a pretty decent sci fi action film on its own merits, with or without the branding.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 28, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> not 100%.
> Its the best crit because it contains some truth but as a star wars film alone it stands head and shoulders over the prequels. I should think the overwhelmingly positive responses from demographics too young to have original film nostalgia tm can attest to that. Its also a pretty decent sci fi action film on its own merits, with or without the branding.


It's certainly a decent film, I'll watch it again in a couple of weeks and maybe I will think better of it if I can see it without a kid crying in my ear through half of the film. But I don't think it would be rated as highly as it is, if it wasn't star wars. As for it scoring highly with the modern youth democratic, well I don't trust them, these are the people who go and watch transformers films!


----------



## goldenecitrone (Dec 28, 2015)

I had the same feeling I get after watching a new bond film. They got me. Again. Same story, same action sequences, same stupid coincidences. Just because I enjoyed it when i was ten doesn't mean I'm going to enjoy it again now.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Dec 28, 2015)

Aren't Star Wars films about the journey of becoming good or evil?
The first trilogy was about Luke and 2nd about Anakin.
This latest one is more of a dual adventure with Rey And Kylo discovering their characters - this is why I reckon it works...there's more happening in general.

Kylo is nowhere near complete and is going to be hard as fuck in the sequel.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2015)

Virtual Blue said:


> Aren't Star Wars films about the journey of becoming good or evil?


yes, its essentially a fairy/folk/fantasy story in space clothes. Thats why I'm also a little critical of the pastiche critique. Its a modern folk tale. There is always a conflicted soldier, an embattled general, a young one with untapped power and unknown destiny. Magic devices to be found (the map, lukes saber) and aided by familiars (BB-8, R2D). A hero pilot and the death of an old wise man. Evil cultivating evil as a serpent among good (kylo).

its all variation on the Quest which defines most fantasy.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 28, 2015)

Went to see it with my parents today.
My mum fell asleep within the first ten minutes. She is a harsh critic.
Easy to spot plot weaknesses the second time, not that it matters.
One is Han, Chewie and Finn not killing Shiny Lady Boss Storm Trooper, instead shoving her in a trash compactor as a nod to Episode IV. They're just about to blow up the planet anyway, so why bother?

My favourite element of the film is the relationship between Rey and Finn, with him being all protective of her, to her utter bemusement.


----------



## May Kasahara (Dec 28, 2015)

Saw it this morning (in 3D, at my 7yo's insistence) and thoroughly enjoyed it. Have also now enjoyed reading this thread.

I have one question though: when the rebels defeated the Empire at the end of RotJ, surely they then stopped being rebels and became the acceptable face of conflict? Once there was a nice happy republic in place, wouldn't that government endorse the good guys and outlaw the bad? Making the First Order the rebels. So why are Leia and co still operating out of a shitty shoestring rebel base, instead of an appropriately funded command centre?


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Went to see it with my parents today.
> My mum fell asleep within the first ten minutes. She is a harsh critic.
> Easy to spot plot weaknesses the second time, not that it matters.
> One is Han, Chewie and Finn not killing Shiny Lady Boss Storm Trooper, shoving her in a trash compactor as a nod to Episode IV. They're just about the blow up the planet anyway, so why bother?
> ...


'let go of my hand!'

it works because Finn as a trooper and a man sees civilians as weak and prey especially women. So when he's defecting he thinks only he knows what the coming carpet bombing will do and assumes Rey is a naif in the arts martial or situations of conflict. When in fact she has mad skills


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2015)

May Kasahara said:


> Saw it this morning (in 3D, at my 7yo's insistence) and thoroughly enjoyed it. Have also now enjoyed reading this thread.
> 
> I have one question though: when the rebels defeated the Empire at the end of RotJ, surely they then stopped being rebels and became the acceptable face of conflict? Once there was a nice happy republic in place, wouldn't that government endorse the good guys and outlaw the bad? Making the First Order the rebels. So why are Leia and co still operating out of a shitty shoestring rebel base, instead of an appropriately funded command centre?



the republic disavow their their resistance wing for reasons of wider politics despite the fact that the resistance are fighting remnants of the former Empire. Much like the Labour Party historically disavows its militant labour movement or shin fein disavow the IRA.


----------



## May Kasahara (Dec 28, 2015)

I thought as much. They could have played that up a bit; not that I want a full return to the tax dispute bad old days, but a bit of grown up context wouldn't hurt...


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2015)

May Kasahara said:


> I thought as much. They could have played that up a bit; not that I want a full return to the tax dispute bad old days, but a bit of grown up context wouldn't hurt...


Mon Mothma and the liberals again  but thats the way the cookie crumbles. Start saying things like 'Vader and the empire are and were a manifest evil that must be crushed if our children are to hope for a better future' sidelined by liberals who think you can be nice to fascists.


----------



## T & P (Dec 28, 2015)

I was just checking IMDB out of boredom and was amused to see a very large number of user reviews giving the film 1 out of 10. I don't know in which order they are listed but as far as I bothered to scroll down, most users gave it the minimum rating possible. Given IMDB users' usual predisposition to giving over enthusiastic reviews to popular films, I suspect a concerted campaign...


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 28, 2015)

T & P said:


> I was just checking IMDB out of boredom and was amused to see a very large number of user reviews giving the film 1 out of 10. I don't know in which order they are listed but as far as I bothered to scroll down, most users gave it the minimum rating possible. Given IMDB users' usual predisposition to giving over enthusiastic reviews to popular films, I suspect a concerted campaign...


You will always get a full breadth of opinions on IMDb. I do like how even the worst of films have their cheerleaders. Most films seem to have a review saying it's the best film they've ever seen.


----------



## xenon (Dec 28, 2015)

Forgot to say. I lovd that it sounded the same. The skiddy fighter lazers, sub bass stardrive sound, industrial chatter in the Starkiller etc. I saw it with  AD, which was well done.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 28, 2015)

xenon said:


> Forgot to say. I lovd that it sounded the same. The skiddy fighter lazers, sub bass stardrive sound, industrial chatter in the Starkiller etc. I saw it with  AD, which was well done.


The TIE fighter noise is fucking awesome


----------



## T & P (Dec 28, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> You will always get a full breadth of opinions on IMDb. I do like how even the worst of films have their cheerleaders. Most films seem to have a review saying it's the best film they've ever seen.


Yeah, I guess it's not to be taken as the most accurate of pulses on the general population's opinion on things. Still, such string of ultra negative reviews felt constructed.


----------



## Athos (Dec 28, 2015)

T & P said:


> Yeah, I guess it's not to be taken as the most accurate of pulses on the general population's opinion on things. Still, such string of ultra negative reviews felt constructed.



Yeah, it's clearly not as bad as a film could possibly be; to say so (by giving it the lowest possible mark) is a silly s saying it's 10/10.


----------



## T & P (Dec 28, 2015)

xenon said:


> Forgot to say. I lovd that it sounded the same. The skiddy fighter lazers, sub bass stardrive sound, industrial chatter in the Starkiller etc. I saw it with  AD, which was well done.


I've always believed for those of us old enough to be 'first generation' SW fans, the sounds of the original trilogy carried far more weight than they would for people born from the 90s onwards.


----------



## xenon (Dec 28, 2015)

pew pew pew. Schjooomp!


----------



## Virtual Blue (Dec 28, 2015)

T & P said:


> I've always believed for those of us old enough to be 'first generation' SW fans, the sounds of the original trilogy carried far more weight than they would for people born from the 90s onwards.



It's also a very western thing.
Over Xmas and some of my relatives don't know what the big fuss is about Star Wars.
Is it like James Bond? Star Trek?


----------



## ska invita (Dec 28, 2015)

had to take my nephew to see it, so saw it a second time
good fun second time (though i did have a little Christmas nap towards the end  )
he wasnt in it for long but i thought oliver reed did a great job as luke skywalker






favourite bit second time around was when Finn is running through the market thirsty for water and all the different sounds the market traders make as they shoe him on....some great made up language bits there


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 28, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> The TIE fighter noise is fucking awesome


. Its a scream of an engine sound, a banshee wail. If you've ever heard real fighter jets doing manouvers you can see/hear the parralels


----------



## 8den (Dec 28, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> . Its a scream of an engine sound, a banshee wail. If you've ever heard real fighter jets doing manouvers you can see/hear the parralels



While Industrial Light & Magic are one of the great success stories of the original trilogy, The other side of the Lucas post production success is often overlooked. Skywalker Sound part of the massive Skywalker Ranch (it has its own fire station) revolutionised cinema sound in the 80s.


----------



## 8den (Dec 28, 2015)

My thoughts. 

Technically and visually excellent. 

My big regrets were that it was rushed. 

We never really got to meet Po & his relationship with Finn is under developed. I don't believe in the pay off when they are reunited before the battle. Their relationship wasn't fleshed out enough for that reaction. 

Similarly Finns character development we don't understand why this one trooper rejects his training and wants to save lives, why he goes back for Ryi and so forth. 

I loved the humour but maybe a Lil less... 
But really enjoyed it.


----------



## 8den (Dec 29, 2015)

Oh and how's this for getting spoilt. A us doctor who performs abortions mentioned she was going to see it and Anti choice activists tweeted her with spoilers and I managed to read the big one. Shit cunts.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 29, 2015)

8den said:


> While Industrial Light & Magic are one of the great success stories of the original trilogy, The other side of the Lucas post production success is often overlooked. Skywalker Sound part of the massive Skywalker Ranch (it has its own fire station) revolutionised cinema sound in the 80s.



Its quite amazing the list of credits Skywalker Sound has.

I wonder if George Lucas kept his nose out of that side and thats why it still does well.

Unlike Lucas Arts which bombed because of indecision and Lucas turning up to put his oar in and keep changing goalposts.


----------



## 8den (Dec 29, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Its quite amazing the list of credits Skywalker Sound has.
> 
> I wonder if George Lucas kept his nose out of that side and thats why it still does well.
> 
> Unlike Lucas Arts which bombed because of indecision and Lucas turning up to put his oar in and keep changing goalposts.



You can criticise Lucas for a lot of things but not his technical skill and business acumen.


----------



## xenon (Dec 29, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> . Its a scream of an engine sound, a banshee wail. If you've ever heard real fighter jets doing manouvers you can see/hear the parralels



The originals and through to now, (I barely remember the prequels TBH) took the cue from the dogfight scenes, sounds and cut aways from so many WWII films.

I remember a doc about the soundcraft pertaining to ANH saying they got the sound of the Ty fighters from swinging a microphone around and applying an analogue, obv, phaser effect. The inventiveness of sound FX has always intrigued me. I seriously thought about doing a postgrad in sound design but lack of funds, job prospects etc... 

Anyway on the main theme of thread. Yes, I said on FB, this film is half way between a reboot and a sequel. The tropes, the blatent re-using of plot. I can accept that. Sure, nostalgia, the nacent good will, it's not hard scifi, Never was. But it ticked the boxes. Allbeit glaring oddities like the Resistance. Erm. The New Republic are the establishment now. 1st Order a bunch of neo fascist upstars, who seemingly have access to all the old Empire's weaponry and troops... Never mind.

Allbeit granted,  I saw it on my own, a little hungover and had overpriced cinema natchos for breakfast, I did well up a bit at points and lol'd a lot at the call-back jokes. Sad I know. If someone's never got Star Wars, doesn't understand what the fuss is about, fine. The Rocky Horror Picture Show by way of comparison, means nothing to me but it seems to affect people nonetheless. It's not about the strength of the story as such. I mean, it's just the old hero with a thousand faces shtick again and again. There's something there though. Yeah we all know the Storm Troopers are rubbish shots, all that armour and they get killed by some old parker wearing bloke's first shot on target, etc, etc. Who cares. It's not about that. It's something... Else.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 29, 2015)

May Kasahara said:


> I thought as much. They could have played that up a bit; not that I want a full return to the tax dispute bad old days, but a bit of grown up context wouldn't hurt...



It's explained a bit in the book Aftermath which starts at the end of RotJ and covers the decades in-between.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 29, 2015)

8den said:


> My thoughts.
> 
> Technically and visually excellent.
> 
> ...



That's partly because in the original script Poe was meant to die early on but they changed him to an Ace pilot.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 29, 2015)

Something I really loved about the film was the light Sabres and the battles. They really sounded amazing and far more full of deadly energy.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 29, 2015)

8den said:


> You can criticise Lucas for a lot of things but not his technical skill and business acumen.



I can't fault his imaginative and drive. He worked hard and if the tech wasn't there to match his vision he set up companies to meet that vision.

He got lucky with keeping merchandising rights that became a licence to print money. He could not have foreseen that as that sort of merch success was previously unheard of.

After completing his film he saw that he'd created a demand for tech that hadn't existed until he had arranged for it to be invented. He put his money on the line and created companies to meet that demand.

I grant him all that. 

Unfortunately as a result of his success you end up with that messiah syndrome where people dare not say no to you because a) you previously did the impossible b) You have the money you are the power. Personally giving creative people that much power isn't always a good thing for their art. Sometimes people like George Lucas do need to be told no that idea really is crap before it makes the final cut.


----------



## 8den (Dec 29, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> That's partly because in the original script Poe was meant to die early on but they changed him to an Ace pilot.



I gather, I am wading through a lot of fan theories spoilers etc. 

I understand that you can say "oh let's have the character live he tests well" but you can't write him back into the 3rd act and suddenly have him have this tremendously close bond with the guy he met for five minutes escaping the 1st order. 

You need to go back and develop the friendship more, have a couple of scenes on the star destroyer or have him survive the crash but then have Finn think he was killed on the attack on  Jakuu. 

I just didn't buy the relationship (hence my criticism of that relationship)


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 29, 2015)

I was convinced by their relationship and thought their instant rapport was well drawn.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 29, 2015)

What was with the slow, despondent droid we encounter outside Wise Old Woman's lair/Mos Eisley cantina Mk2? Is there a significance to it?
And why did the creature who tried to salvage BB8 give him up so easily to Rey? And why was his beast of burden so slow too. Is it some sort of (in)joke?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 29, 2015)

8den said:


> We never really got to meet Po & his relationship with Finn is under developed. I don't believe in the pay off when they are reunited before the battle. Their relationship wasn't fleshed out enough for that reaction.



Poe is the pilot who got him out of his nightmare (of  valuing life and having a job that forces you to take it) and he thought he was dead so i can see Finn being really happy that his flight to freedom hadn't cost Poe his life. Relief of conscience. 
Finn is the guy who completed Poe's incredibly important mission for him and the rebellion. As a rebel he is incredibly grateful.

I can see all that being worth a running hug.

No what annoys me is Finn's "you haven't seen what i've seen maaan" speech as if he's been through years of witnessing all the many hells of war. When by his own confession he worked in sanitation and only went on one mission.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 29, 2015)

Star Wars  has confirmed one thing for me.  If  you want  to hide yourself  in a desolate spot  off all know charts....  Go to Kerry.

Skellig Michael really  struck me as  not  looking like an alien world  just really  looking  like Ireland.


----------



## Greasy Boiler (Dec 29, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Skellig Michael really  struck me as  not  looking like an alien world  just really  looking  like Ireland.



I kinda liked how many locations were clearly shot in the British Isles: from Skellig to the Forest of Dean, the old Pershing silos in Greenham Common to the space wetherspoons in the Lake District and the bit later where it gets cocked over by Tie fighters and everyone's running around what is pretty obviously a field near Pinewood Studios.

Although yes, it did somewhat detract from the whole "long ago, in a galazy far, far way" thing... although I don't think this movie had that bit


----------



## Santino (Dec 29, 2015)

T & P said:


> I was just checking IMDB out of boredom and was amused to see a very large number of user reviews giving the film 1 out of 10. I don't know in which order they are listed but as far as I bothered to scroll down, most users gave it the minimum rating possible. Given IMDB users' usual predisposition to giving over enthusiastic reviews to popular films, I suspect a concerted campaign...


Probably a coordinated bunch of racists, MRAs, and racist MRAs.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 29, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Star Wars  has confirmed one thing for me.  If  you want  to hide yourself  in a desolate spot  off all know charts....  Go to Kerry.
> 
> Skellig Michael really  struck me as  not  looking like an alien world  just really  looking  like Ireland.


Is that the world Luke is hiding out on?
It looked like Iceland to me.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 29, 2015)

Santino said:


> Probably a coordinated bunch of racists, MRAs, and racist MRAs.


And people who thought it deserved 1 stars out of 10


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 29, 2015)

Santino said:


> Probably a coordinated bunch of racists, MRAs, and racist MRAs.


cultural mraists as I call them


----------



## fucthest8 (Dec 29, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Is that the world Luke is hiding out on?
> It looked like Iceland to me.



Def Ireland. Its that island off the west coast with the mad steps and the cells for monks to live in, I forget the name.

E2A: Oh I see Skellig Michael 

So, like many others, my synopsis is:

Pretty much a combo of ep IV and V

Therefore fine by me.

"first, do no harm"


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 29, 2015)

fucthest8 said:


> Def Ireland. Its that island off the west coast with the mad steps and the cells for monks to live in, I forget the name.
> 
> E2A: Oh I see Skellig Michael
> 
> ...


IV and VI rather?


----------



## fucthest8 (Dec 29, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> IV and VI rather?



Indeed. Apols, struggling to post from my phone today, tried to keep it brief, still ballsed it up


----------



## scifisam (Dec 29, 2015)

Greasy Boiler said:


> I kinda liked how many locations were clearly shot in the British Isles: from Skellig to the Forest of Dean, the old Pershing silos in Greenham Common to the space wetherspoons in the Lake District and the bit later where it gets cocked over by Tie fighters and everyone's running around what is pretty obviously a field near Pinewood Studios.
> 
> Although yes, it did somewhat detract from the whole "long ago, in a galazy far, far way" thing... although I don't think this movie had that bit



It did, in the scrolly bit. Brought a tear to my eye. 

I did enjoy a bit of location spotting too. 



Gromit said:


> No what annoys me is Finn's "you haven't seen what i've seen maaan" speech as if he's been through years of witnessing all the many hells of war. When by his own confession he worked in sanitation and only went on one mission.



I think it's likely that, when Stormtroopers are being raised to be merciless killers who follow orders without a thought, their upbringing is not the gentlest.


----------



## 8den (Dec 29, 2015)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Star Wars  has confirmed one thing for me.  If  you want  to hide yourself  in a desolate spot  off all know charts....  Go to Kerry.
> 
> Skellig Michael really  struck me as  not  looking like an alien world  just really  looking  like Ireland.



I thought it looked great fantastic location. Like using the Aztec Pyramids for Yavin in Star Wars. (Btw it's not episode IV)


----------



## Gromit (Dec 29, 2015)

scifisam said:


> I think it's likely that, when Stormtroopers are being raised to be merciless killers who follow orders without a thought, their upbringing is not the gentlest.


He was raised by a robot mommy. Didn't do Leonard in Big Bang Theory any harm. He didn't turn into a stone cold killer.


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

I don't think jj abrams really understands space. When the five republic planets are blown up it is witnessed from the super secret rebel base which means it must be in the same star system. But surely that can't be right? The secret rebel base is on the next planet along from republic hq?

Han mentioned you can get through the shields traveling at light speed... Why didnt all the tie fighters just do that then? Or better yet get a big freighter, fill it full of explosives and fire it at the planet at light speed and see what happens.

So when the new deathstar has used up the star in that system to reload... how does it reload again?


----------



## 5t3IIa (Dec 29, 2015)

8den said:


> I thought it looked great fantastic location. Like using the Aztec Pyramids for Yavin in Star Wars. (Btw it's not episode IV)


Tikal is Mayan


----------



## emanymton (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> I don't think jj abrams really understands space. When the five republic planets are blown up it is witnessed from the super secret rebel base which means it must be in the same star system. But surely that can't be right? The secret rebel base is on the next planet along from republic hq?
> 
> Han mentioned you can get through the shields traveling at light speed... Why didnt all the tie fighters just do that then? Or better yet get a big freighter, fill it full of explosives and fire it at the planet at light speed and see what happens.
> 
> So when the new deathstar has used up the star in that system to reload... how does it reload again?


Tie fighters can't travel at light speed (well the old ones couldn't), other than that spot on. While we are on the subject, whatever that big gun shoots would have to travel faster than light, a lot faster. There is no way you could see it streaking past.


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

Oh yeah and fuck luke skywalker - the galaxy is suffering at the hands of a mess he created and instead of helping to sort it out he does one. But he does leave some clues so if the rebels really need him they can find him... It's just one big fucking game to him isn't it??


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Tie fighters can't travel at light speed (well the old ones couldn't), other than that spot on. While we are on the subject, whatever that big gun shoots would have to travel faster than light, a lot faster. There is no way you could see it streaking past.


The rebels did describe ths new weapon as 'hyper speed' and iirc once the shield was down the order was given to the tie fighters to drop out of light speed. Are you sure the old ones weren't light speed capable? Didn't luke go to that swamp planet in one?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> Oh yeah and fuck luke skywalker - the galaxy is suffering at the hands of a mess he created and instead of helping to sort it out he does one. But he does leave some clues so if the rebels really need him they can find him... It's just one big fucking game to him isn't it??



He does love a scavenger hunt, Now they've beat that its time to move on to the quick fire general knowledge round.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 29, 2015)

emanymton said:


> whatever that big gun shoots would have to travel faster than light, a lot faster.



Plasma. Its just storing up plasma from a star and then farting it out in a thin stream. It only needs to go as fast as they can expel it. Its not a laser. Inertia will keep it moving as the vacuum of space won't slow it.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> The rebels did describe ths new weapon as 'hyper speed' and iirc once the shield was down the order was given to the tie fighters to drop out of light speed. Are you sure the old ones weren't light speed capable? Didn't luke go to that swamp planet in one?


Are you confusing TIE fighters 






With X-wings?


----------



## emanymton (Dec 29, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Plasma. Its just storing up plasma from a star and then farting it out in a thin stream. It only needs to go as fast as they can expel it. Its not a laser. Inertia will keep it moving as the vacuum of space won't slow it.


And it will hit it's target in a few thousand years.


----------



## 8den (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> The rebels did describe ths new weapon as 'hyper speed' and iirc once the shield was down the order was given to the tie fighters to drop out of light speed. Are you sure the old ones weren't light speed capable? Didn't luke go to that swamp planet in one?



He went to dagoba in his x wing which is a hyper space equipped craft unlike a tie fighter. 

Tie fighters had no hyper drive poor shields and were dangerous to land displaying the empires indifference to its pilots safety. 

And yet I can never remember my pin code...


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

emanymton said:


> Are you confusing TIE fighters
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes i meant x wing. Just replace tie fighter with x wing in all my previous posts!


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

8den said:


> He went to dagoba in his x wing which is a hyper space equipped craft unlike a tie fighter.
> 
> Tie fighters had no hyper drive poor shields and were dangerous to land displaying the empires indifference to its pilots safety.
> 
> And yet I can never remember my pin code...


So they could have just light speeded their way through the shields then? Who's the general in charge of this shambles??


----------



## emanymton (Dec 29, 2015)

8den said:


> He went to dagoba in his x wing which is a hyper space equipped craft unlike a tie fighter.
> 
> Tie fighters had no hyper drive poor shields and were dangerous to land displaying the empires indifference to its pilots safety.
> 
> And yet I can never remember my pin code...


You forgot to mention that TIE stands for twin iron engine.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> Yes i meant x wing. Just replace tie fighter with x wing in all my previous posts!


And now they all make sense.


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

emanymton said:


> And now they all make sense.


I am often the voice of reason. The annoying thing is all these errors in the story are completely avoidable


----------



## Gromit (Dec 29, 2015)

emanymton said:


> And it will hit it's target in a few thousand years.



Well its all a bit silly any how. Depleting the sun should be enough to kill all life on nearby planets anyhow. 
1. They'd all turn into balls of ice.
2. the Gravity disruption would create all sorts of havoc.

No need to fire the gun tbh.


----------



## captainmission (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> I don't think jj abrams really understands space. When the five republic planets are blown up it is witnessed from the super secret rebel base which means it must be in the same star system. But surely that can't be right? The secret rebel base is on the next planet along from republic?



Why does that mean they're in the same system? If the star killer can send its "laser" beam at hyperspace speeds, why can't the light from the explosion it makes travel at such speeds. I assumed the explosion was visable across the galaxy.





> Oh yeah and fuck luke skywalker - the galaxy is suffering at the hands of a mess he created and instead of helping to sort it out he does one. But he does leave some clues so if the rebels really need him they can find him... It's just one big fucking game to him isn't it??



He's just keeping up the jedi tradition of being an absolute, obtuse, useless sod. What he's done is totally in keeping with the rubbish palnning and guidence his mentor imparted on him. Jedi- the galaxy should be glad to be rid of them.


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Well its all a bit silly any how. Depleting the sun should be enough to kill all life on nearby planets anyhow.
> 1. They'd all turn into balls of ice.
> 2. the Gravity disruption would create all sorts of havoc.
> 
> No need to fire the gun tbh.


Well there is when you want to destroy a target in a different star system


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

captainmission said:


> Why does that mean they're in the same system? If the star killer can send its "laser" beam at hyperspace speeds, why can't the light from the explosion it makes travel at such speeds. I assumed the explosion was visable across the galaxy.


Now you're just being silly!


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

captainmission said:


> He's just keeping up the jedi tradition of being an absolute, obtuse, useless sod. What he's done is totally in keeping with the rubbish palnning and guidence his mentor imparted on him. Jedi- the galaxy should be glad to be rid of them.


This i entirely agree with though!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 29, 2015)

emanymton said:


> And it will hit it's target in a few thousand years.


They explicitly say it's a "hyperlight" weapon at some point. Exactly how, er, well.


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

So in conclusion - looked good, sounded good, goodish actors, rotten story


----------



## captainmission (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> Now you're just being silly!



Which bit? The beam goes faster than the speed of light, or star killer base would need to be in the same system as all the other planets. Exploding stars would be advisable across our galaxy, just not instantaneously- unless we had hyper light!


----------



## 5t3IIa (Dec 29, 2015)

I think Luke should have said "I don't want it it" then Rey get a line.... Top it all off, and foreshadow episode...uhm 8.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> So in conclusion - looked good, sounded good, goodish actors, rotten story


And rotten characterisation. Rotten writing overall, perhaps sums it up.


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

captainmission said:


> Which bit? The beam goes faster than the speed of light, or star killer base would need to be in the same system as all the other planets. Exploding stars would be advisable across our galaxy, just not instantaneously- unless we had hyper light!


Its the hyper light from the resulting explosion i have a problem with


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> And rotten characterisation. Rotten writing overall, perhaps sums it up.


I thought some of the dialogue was pretty decent


----------



## ska invita (Dec 29, 2015)

Some thing that stood out on second watch as pretty stupid was the bit where Han + crew need to get onto the new death star planet to blow it up, but theres no way through the shields - but he comes up with one! Supposedly if you go through the shields at light speed the shield wont stop you! Cue them flying through the shield at light speed and then hitting the breaks as they pop through the other side, leaving them just stopping in time to crash into some trees.

I don't know much about travelling at light speed, but I think that bit had Steven Hawking tutting.

And then, already said, and also shield related, Phasma lets the entire planets shields down at the threat of Finn pointing a gun at her.

Not that I really mind


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> I thought some of the dialogue was pretty decent


I don't think the dialogue was a specific weak spot, but the thing is that it emerges from characterisation and plot. In context a line can be fine but if the context is rubbish, that doesn't help so much.

There was some absolutely awful dialogue in the prequels even in context, so it's certainly an improvement to have something even just appropriate.


----------



## Athos (Dec 29, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I don't think the dialogue was a specific weak spot, but the thing is that it emerges from characterisation and plot. In context a line can be fine but if the context is rubbish, that doesn't help so much.
> 
> There was some absolutely awful dialogue in the prequels even in context, so it's certainly an improvement to have something even just appropriate.



The dialogue in New Hope is painfully dire.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Dec 29, 2015)

Athos said:


> The dialogue in New Hope is painfully dire.


I dunno that it's that bad. It's not exactly Tolstoy, certainly, but a lot of it is carried by the actors and there are a few good classic lines, even if they're now cliches.


----------



## captainmission (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> Its the hyper light from the resulting explosion i have a problem with



I find your lack of faith disturbing


----------



## 8den (Dec 29, 2015)

emanymton said:


> You forgot to mention that TIE stands for twin iron engine.



Ion.


----------



## electroplated (Dec 29, 2015)

I found it a bit odd that in the 30+ years Han and Chewie have been hanging out Han appeared to have only just get his first go on Chewie's crossbow/bowcaster weapon ..?


----------



## 8den (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> So they could have just light speeded their way through the shields then? Who's the general in charge of this shambles??



Which shields? In Star Wars there wasn't a shield. In Jedi there was a shield but the weak spot was inside the Death Star so the shield needed to be brought down. In awakens the falcon jumps through the shield but it's not a controlled landing. The x wings need the shield down so they can take out the weak spot.


----------



## emanymton (Dec 29, 2015)

8den said:


> Ion.


I'd like to blame autocorrelation, but I can't remember what I actually typed.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 29, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Some thing that stood out on second watch as pretty stupid was the bit where Han + crew need to get onto the new death star planet to blow it up, but theres no way through the shields - but he comes up with one! Supposedly if you go through the shields at light speed the shield wont stop you! Cue them flying through the shield at light speed and then hitting the breaks as they pop through the other side, leaving them just stopping in time to crash into some trees.
> 
> I don't know much about travelling at light speed, but I think that bit had Steven Hawking tutting.
> 
> ...


As much as I loved it the second viewing made me think the same thing...


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

8den said:


> The x wings need the shield down so they can take out the weak spot.


Why couldn't they do what the millenium falcon did?


----------



## 8den (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> Why couldn't they do what the millenium falcon did?



One. It's the falcon it rules. Secondly the falcon crashed into the planet. Not exactly a precision bombing run.


----------



## binka (Dec 29, 2015)

8den said:


> One. It's the falcon it rules. Secondly the falcon crashed into the planet. Not exactly a precision bombing run.


X wings are smaller and more agile so should handle it better than the falcon


----------



## 8den (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> X wings are smaller and more agile so should handle it better than the falcon



It's the falcon the fastest ship in the galaxy piloted by the best pilots in the galaxy.


----------



## captainmission (Dec 29, 2015)

binka said:


> Why couldn't they do what the millenium falcon did?



Because the millennium falcon has the finest hyperdrive in the galaxy. No x wing could make the kessel run in under 12 parsecs, so it probably couldn't brake in time or something.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 29, 2015)

Gromit said:


> I can't fault his imaginative and drive. He worked hard and if the tech wasn't there to match his vision he set up companies to meet that vision.
> 
> He got lucky with keeping merchandising rights that became a licence to print money. He could not have foreseen that as that sort of merch success was previously unheard of.
> 
> ...



It was his undoing, what made him good was fighting against limits. Once they were removed he was revealed to be a terrible story teller.


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 29, 2015)

8den said:


> It's the falcon the fastest ship in the galaxy piloted by the best pilots in the galaxy.


Then why was it being used as a garbage container on Jakku? Or did I mishear amongst the explosions?


----------



## ska invita (Dec 29, 2015)

Pretty sure the whole set up in ep4&5 is that the Falcon is a bit of a rust bucket, but despite that it still saves the day - a bit like Han himself. Its not what you've got its what you do with it. Dont take things on appearance etc, being the moral of the story. No way is it the fastest ship in the galaxy...any hype is just Han talking shit trying to get a job.

Lando says "She's the fastest hunk of junk in the galaxy" which doesn't mean she's really the fastest in the galaxy


----------



## Sea Star (Dec 29, 2015)

Reno said:


> Because the guns in Star Wars all seem to be bent. Thats why the stormtroopers never hit their targets.


i've decided to believe that all the main characters have some residual part of the Force around them which saves them from being shot at. Otherwise it'd be a bit unbelievable


----------



## Gromit (Dec 29, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> It was his undoing, what made him good was fighting against limits. Once they were removed he was revealed to be a terrible story teller.


Well lets look at how he sets up the first film. These are the key points if you were to précis the rolling titles:

Civil War
Rebel Spaceships
Hidden Base
Spies
Secret plans
Ultimate weapon
DEATH STAR (it was in caps)
Destroy an entire planet.

Wow i'm paying attention for this.

Now lets get the storytelling rev'd up to warp factor 10 for Episode I. Lets really set up the mood for action adventure.

The taxation of trade routes is in dispute.
Politicians are having endless debates about it.
Two (not hundred, just a couple of em) Jedi Knights of Peace and Justice gone to look into it.

Nah theres no shift in the story telling dynamic there.


----------



## captainmission (Dec 29, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Then why was it being used as a garbage container on Jakku? Or did I mishear amongst the explosions?



Yeah, what a piece of junk.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 29, 2015)

Another bit i liked in the new one is "youre a dead man" in a scottish accent
Needs even more Celtic accents in Star Wars


----------



## T & P (Dec 29, 2015)

captainmission said:


> Because the millennium falcon has the finest hyperdrive in the galaxy. No x wing could make the kessel run in under 12 parsecs, so it probably couldn't brake in time or something.


Ah, but as any fule knows (the Family Guy parody episode reminded us), the parsec is a unit of distance, not time. The original Solo quote in A New Hope was meant to be a joke (or perhaps so would Lucas have us believe after someone pointed it out to him), so I was surprised to hear the claim repeated in this one.

On an unrelated matter, on one of the reviews I read before watching the film, the reviewer said one of the few things he didn't like about it was a very annoying tiny droid (not BB8). However I don't remember noticing any such droid. What did I miss?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 29, 2015)

T & P said:


> Ah, but as any fule knows (the Family Guy parody episode reminded us), the parsec is a unit of distance, not time. The original Solo quote in A New Hope was meant to be a joke (or perhaps so would Lucas have us believe after someone pointed it out to him), so I was surprised to hear the claim repeated in this one.
> 
> On an unrelated matter, on one of the reviews I read before watching the film, the reviewer said one of the few things he didn't like about it was a very annoying tiny droid (not BB8). However I don't remember noticing any such droid. What did I miss?



Han speaks alien. Could just be a coincidence that the kessel run is measured in an alien unit which sounds very much like the english word parsec when spoken by a human. 
Aliens probably find it amusing in the same way we find foreign foods such as cock crisps and pee cola.


----------



## captainmission (Dec 29, 2015)

T & P said:


> Ah, but as any fule knows (the Family Guy parody episode reminded us), the parsec is a unit of distance, not time. The original Solo quote in A New Hope was meant to be a joke (or perhaps so would Lucas have us believe after someone pointed it out to him), so I was surprised to hear the claim repeated in this one.
> 
> On an unrelated matter, on one of the reviews I read before watching the film, the reviewer said one of the few things he didn't like about it was a very annoying tiny droid (not BB8). However I don't remember noticing any such droid. What did I miss?



The falcon's advanced hyperdrive allows it approach closer to the various black holes of the kessel run helping him to shave several parsecs off the distance of the journey. Lesser ships take the long route round.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Dec 30, 2015)

It was a mistake that got retconned into being about navigation not speed.

I kinda get the impression that the idea is a bit  like  having  a  solid old ship  that has been  over-clocked to absolute breaking point until you get  something that  dances along the knife edge  between maximum performance  and destructive overdrive.  

it's the star wars equivelent of one of those cars  from mad max.   rusty  beat up  and  nitrosed to exploding point.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2015)

are people really questioning star wars science here


----------



## Greebozz (Dec 30, 2015)

I have an idea here to flesh out the ceremonial side of the Jedi religion, once a year they should be the main celebration in which a Papier mache model of a death start/Star killer bass is ceremoniously destroyed by throwing metal X wing fighter models at it.  Like the Mexicans do with a Pinata.


----------



## xenon (Dec 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> Then why was it being used as a garbage container on Jakku? Or did I mishear amongst the explosions?



Rae said it was garbage, as in disrepair.

Anyway the Falcon was always a bit of a junker, save the amazing engine and crazy pilots.

Hence Luke commenting disparagingly on it when he first goes aboard in ANH.


----------



## binka (Dec 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> are people really questioning star wars science here


why not? if it wants to be fantasy fine no problem, but when it introduces _some_ scientific explanation for certain things it can't then go and get incredibly basic things completely wrong. well it can get them wrong but i reserve the right to criticise the film for it


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2015)

binka said:


> why not? if it wants to be fantasy fine no problem, but when it introduces _some_ scientific explanation for certain things it can't then go and get incredibly basic things completely wrong. well it can get them wrong but i reserve the right to criticise the film for it


yes it can. Some of the pig Latin used for spells in Harry Potter is grammatically off. 

the fact is the moment you have FTL all bets are off, you broke the fundemental law of the universe and can now merrily make shit up as you go along. Fire the retcons at will!


----------



## binka (Dec 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> yes it can. Some of the pig Latin used for spells in Harry Potter is grammatically off.
> 
> the fact is the moment you have FTL all bets are off, you broke the fundemental law of the universe and can now merrily make shit up as you go along. Fire the retcons at will!


so if any film or tv show has either faster than light or time travel then it can put any old bollocks in and it wouldn't matter to you at all?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 30, 2015)

binka said:


> so if any film or tv show has either faster than light or time travel then it can put any old bollocks in and it wouldn't matter to you at all?


It's science _fiction. _It's made up.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2015)

binka said:


> so if any film or tv show has either faster than light or time travel then it can put any old bollocks in and it wouldn't matter to you at all?


Well I watch doctor who so you can guess the answer to that...


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 30, 2015)

What's the scientific basis for midichlorians and The Force?


----------



## Gromit (Dec 30, 2015)

binka said:


> so if any film or tv show has either faster than light or time travel then it can put any old bollocks in and it wouldn't matter to you at all?



We might as well. Since nothing can travel faster than light.

Han goes from a standing start to FTL. Lets say that the ship can do it. Why aren't they all jam on the inside of the ship? The force of the sudden acceleration would have them spread atom thin on one of the walls.


----------



## binka (Dec 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> It's science _fiction. _It's made up.


well i don't know an exact definition of science fiction but i don't think it means _all_ the rules go out the window, and those that do have to be at least partially explained and conform to an internal logic so it doesn't go contradicting itself at a later date


----------



## binka (Dec 30, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Why aren't they all jam on the inside of the ship?


probably some sort of compensator or a big lever or something


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2015)

binka said:


> well i don't know an exact definition of science fiction but i don't think it means _all_ the rules go out the window, and those that do have to be at least partially explained and conform to an internal logic so it doesn't go contradicting itself at a later date


welcome to science fiction done for television and big screen. Retroactive continuity is the magic device writers use to back explain contradictions. The contradictions arise because of the many cooks issue. If an explanation is cool or filmic or neccesary as a plot gubbins it will be used and piss over what a former writer might have said. This is then explained away somehow. Reversing the polarity. Timey wimey. Whatever


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2015)

Gromit said:


> We might as well. Since nothing can travel faster than light.
> 
> Han goes from a standing start to FTL. Lets say that the ship can do it. Why aren't they all jam on the inside of the ship? The force of the sudden acceleration would have them spread atom thin on one of the walls.


Star Trek ships have inertial dampeners so can go from x6 lightspeed to a dead stop without killing the crew. And yet, when they get hit by a torpedo the whole bridge shakes and people fall about the place. The exploding consoles tm explode AGAIN because nobody can make non explosive consoles in the 24th century


----------



## binka (Dec 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> welcome to science fiction done for television and big screen. Retroactive continuity is the magic device writers use to back explain contradictions. The contradictions arise because of the many cooks issue. If an explanation is cool or filmic or neccesary as a plot gubbins it will be used and piss over what a former writer might have said. This is then explained away somehow. Reversing the polarity. Timey wimey. Whatever


yes i can accept some failures but not when it is completely unnecessary - such as when the planets were viewed being destroyed in real time from another star system. why? they could have just as easily had the same effect with a distress signal from one of the ships in the same system. stupid film.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 30, 2015)

binka said:


> probably some sort of compensator or a big lever or something



Yet BB 8 rattles around and had to deploy tethers? (plus many other examples)
Nope there is no inertial compensator in evidence.

They do however seem to have some kind of magical gravity simulator which requires no rotation of Falcon.


----------



## magneze (Dec 30, 2015)

Gromit said:


> They do however seem to have some kind of magical gravity simulator which requires no rotation of Falcon.


Glad that one's cleared up then.


----------



## scifisam (Dec 30, 2015)

Internal logic is reasonable to expect in either science fiction or fantasy, but fantasy has more of a get out when it comes to applying real world logic to it. 

Star Wars is swords and sourcery fantasy set in space, not science fiction. Science fiction always gives an answer to a "what if" question, like what if we could travel in time, or what if robots gained sentience. Star Wars doesn't do that - it's fantasy. The fairy-tale like opening words, "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away," make that obvious even if the characters didn't. (People often forget those words and assume it's set in some future of humanity, but it's definitively not). 

So all it needs is internal logic and it does pretty well there.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2015)

Gromit said:


> Well lets look at how he sets up the first film. These are the key points if you were to précis the rolling titles:
> 
> Civil War
> Rebel Spaceships
> ...



You're talking at cross purposes, I'm talking about his execution not the story arc.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2015)

Interstellar had some of the more rigorous science that is part of whats usually called 'Hard SF'. Think Asimov, Egan, C Clarke that ilk. By god was it fucking bad though. About half an hour in I realise I'm watching a science fiction film and we haven't seen a single fucking space ship yet. Long. But it does do a good job explaining the time dilation effect


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Dec 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> What's the scientific basis for midichlorians and The Force?



There isn't one, George Lucas is a twat.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> There isn't one, George Lucas is a twat.


I thought the midichlorians were the opposite of a mystery/religious side to the force, like an attempt to give it a veneer of science. When eveyone know its better to just be amazing combat magic allied to some poundshop zen mutterings


----------



## binka (Dec 30, 2015)

scifisam said:


> Internal logic is reasonable to expect in either science fiction or fantasy, but fantasy has more of a get out when it comes to applying real world logic to it.
> 
> Star Wars is swords and sourcery fantasy set in space, not science fiction. Science fiction always gives an answer to a "what if" question, like what if we could travel in time, or what if robots gained sentience. Star Wars doesn't do that - it's fantasy. The fairy-tale like opening words, "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away," make that obvious even if the characters didn't. (People often forget those words and assume it's set in some future of humanity, but it's definitively not).
> 
> So all it needs is internal logic and it does pretty well there.


to be fair even in a fantasy it would annoy me if you could see planets blowing up from another star system. i understand what you are saying though, star wars should perhaps be looked at as fantasy rather than scifi, but the only thing that still niggles is their need to use some scientific jargon (like the hyperweapon) it's the half arsed nature that grates


----------



## binka (Dec 30, 2015)

does everyone at last agree with me that luke skywalker is a dick?


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 30, 2015)

binka said:


> does everyone at last agree with me that luke skywalker is a dick?


Yeah. Fucking emo.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 30, 2015)

no, he is stricken with grief and horror and in self imposed exile. He's got a recent divorce style beard for fucks sake, give the man a break


----------



## Athos (Dec 30, 2015)

I picture him on that island, with his robo-hand set to 'autowank', crying gently to himself.  Fix up, man!


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> no, he is stricken with grief and horror and in self imposed exile. He's got a recent divorce style beard for fucks sake, give the man a break


He couldn't give a shit about saving the galaxy just because he is sad that one of his students got bad grades.


----------



## xenon (Dec 30, 2015)

binka said:


> well i don't know an exact definition of science fiction but i don't think it means _all_ the rules go out the window, and those that do have to be at least partially explained and conform to an internal logic so it doesn't go contradicting itself at a later date


Mostly yeah but SW has never been about sciency consistency. Fighters in space make no sense, even less sound, cloaking devices break thurmo dynamic laws, plasma weapons are a nonsence, FTL... Ion engines are slow... Very very slow. Etc.

Sometimes you want hard scifi, sometimes you want Star Wars.


----------



## xenon (Dec 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I thought the midichlorians were the opposite of a mystery/religious side to the force, like an attempt to give it a veneer of science. When eveyone know its better to just be amazing combat magic allied to some poundshop zen mutterings


Poundshop zen mutterings.  I'm nicking that.


----------



## xenon (Dec 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> He couldn't give a shit about saving the galaxy just because he is sad that one of his students got bad grades.



His nephew. Not so much as bad grades as went total school masica. 

Doh.


----------



## T & P (Dec 30, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> He couldn't give a shit about saving the galaxy just because he is sad that one of his students got bad grades.


Come to think of it, Yoda couldn't be much arsed to help Luke in his hour of need when he decided to confront Vader in Empire Srikes Back despite not being nearly ready for it. It's not as if Yoda was being much of an asset to the Rebellion at the time and his loss would be a blow to the cause...


----------



## kabbes (Dec 31, 2015)

I was left with two important questions:

1) Does Luke spend all day every day standing on top of that cliff staring moodily out to sea, thinking moody Jedi thoughts?  Has it not got boring after an unknown number of years? Or did he just happen to be in the most dramatic possible spot at that time out of coincidence? 

2) who built all that amazing dry stone walking on Luke's uncharted planet?  Was it Luke himself, using Jedi powers, maybe?  In answer to question 1, maybe he had literally just finally finished the dry stone walling and was standing on the cliff admiring his handiwork when he was rudely interrupted by Rey.

These are things I need to know before I can carry on.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 31, 2015)

kabbes said:


> I was left with two important questions:
> 
> 1) Does Luke spend all day every day standing on top of that cliff staring moodily out to sea, thinking moody Jefi thoughts?  Has it not got boring after an unknown number of years? Or did he just happen to be in the most dramatic possible spot at that time out of coincidence?
> 
> ...


He's got the force. He could sence her coming so put his pants on and got into position. Either because he was trying to look cool or just because he was off to meet her.

Isn't it the location of a mega old Jedi temple? The wall is just the remains of whatever was there thousands of years ago.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 31, 2015)

If that's true, I want to know why the Jedi moved on from giant stone blocks to fragile dry stone walling.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Dec 31, 2015)

kabbes said:


> If that's true, I want to know why the Jedi moved on from giant stone blocks to fragile dry stone walling.


It's the oldest Jedi temple. Who's to say they didn't start with the stone wall? Who's to say some other previous island in habitants built it? Maybe it's a planet just like earth. The stone wall might have already been there. The Jedi are not a race. They didn't just look for an empty planet and star jeding.


----------



## kabbes (Dec 31, 2015)

Well, it's stood up well to the millennia of natural erosion, I'll give it that.  The ones in Wales are crumbly after 20 years.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 31, 2015)

kabbes said:


> Well, it's stood up well to the millennia of natural erosion, I'll give it that.  The ones in Wales are crumbly after 20 years.


the welsh don't have the force


----------



## Gromit (Dec 31, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the welsh don't have the force


Who says?!

It's just stronger in the Skywalker family innit. He has it, his father had it and Max Boyce has it.


----------



## Ted Striker (Dec 31, 2015)

They choose mintycondiments over midichlorians.


----------



## Gromit (Dec 31, 2015)

Ted Striker said:


> They choose mintycondiments over midichlorians.


Welsh lamb deserves nothing less.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 31, 2015)

Phasma, I know whats been bugging me about Phasma now. Cos she is in GoT I still have the character in my head of the short tempered, stern but loyal and decent knight briene of tarth


need to see Phasma do something really evil to erase that.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Dec 31, 2015)

Apparently she is lined up for a bigger part in the next film


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 31, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Phasma, I know whats been bugging me about Phasma now. Cos she is in GoT I still have the character in my head of the short tempered, stern but loyal and decent knight briene of tarth
> 
> 
> need to see Phasma do something really evil to erase that.


She did give the order for a whole settlement to be slaughtered


----------



## ska invita (Dec 31, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> She did give the order for a whole settlement to be slaughtered


Kylo is the one who says "kill them all" IIRC


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 31, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Kylo is the one who says "kill the all" IIRC


She passes it on, doesn't she?


----------



## ska invita (Dec 31, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> She passes it on, doesn't she?


She was only following orders, bless her!


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 31, 2015)

ska invita said:


> She was only following orders, bless her!


"On my command" is what she says, then it cuts to the stormtroopers blasting the villagers.


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 31, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> She did give the order for a whole settlement to be slaughtered


this is so. But I've spent more time with the character of brienne than phasma so that'll be the source of my 'hey but aren't you a goodie...' subconscious murmering


ruffneck23 said:


> Apparently she is lined up for a bigger part in the next film


I'd read this too. Maybe the writers want to make her the new Boba Fett in terms of iconic 2nd tier baddie


----------



## ska invita (Dec 31, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> "On my command" is what she says, then it cuts to the stormtroopers blasting the villagers.


no worse than any storm trooper tbf - in fact theyre worse as they did the shooting
all she did in the film was let down the shields !


----------



## DotCommunist (Dec 31, 2015)

ska invita said:


> no worse than any storm trooper tbf - in fact theyre worse as they did the shooting
> all she did in the film was let down the shields !


pretty sure she would still get guilty in a nuremburg trial based on Orang Utan 's testimony. And he's seen it twice.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 31, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> pretty sure she would still get guilty in a nuremburg trial based on Orang Utan 's testimony. And he's seen it twice.


aye, but no worse than the stormtroopers - brainwashed or not!


----------



## Orang Utan (Dec 31, 2015)

ska invita said:


> aye, but no worse than the stormtroopers - brainwashed or not!


She's a boss. Course she's worse.


----------



## ska invita (Dec 31, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> She's a boss. Course she's worse.


Whose to say how she got there...


----------



## scifisam (Jan 1, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Whose to say how she got there...



She has a name so she might not have been raised a Stormtrooper - more culpable in that case.


----------



## T & P (Jan 1, 2016)

I wish the Resistance attack had simply managed to temporarily disable the Starkiller base, rather than destroy the entire bloody planet. Seemed a bit too easy and predictable. And it would have been good to have it around as an overhanging ultimate weapon threat for the rest of this trilogy.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 1, 2016)

I thought the base was the weakest part of the film. The death star was built up from the beginning as this supreme weapon with people fighting to get the plans etc. The starkiller because of the way they told the story just appears halfway through from nowhere and is defeated by a committee meeting.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 1, 2016)

It does make sense to me, though, that the bad guys would just keep building Death Stars.  I mean, why not?  Do try to fix that glaring weak spot though, lads.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 1, 2016)

what we never see are the industrial hive worlds turning out all these super star destroyers and planet killers. I'd like to imagine these worlds are a little less cunty than empire controlled worlds normally are but the empire being space fash like they are its probably giant slave labour worlds


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 1, 2016)

Seriously, though, how long would it actually take and how much effort would it be to turn an entire fucking planet into a gun? And nobody even _notices_? You'd have thought after being caught by surprise by the first two bloody Death Stars the Rebel Alliance would pay slightly more attention.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 1, 2016)

Tis a big old galaxy.


----------



## A380 (Jan 1, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Seriously, though, how long would it actually take and how much effort would it be to turn an entire fucking planet into a gun? And nobody even _notices_? You'd have thought after being caught by surprise by the first two bloody Death Stars the Rebel Alliance would pay slightly more attention.


Star Wars: Experts calculate cost of Death Star... and its destruction

and;

http://gizmodo.com/economist-the-destruction-of-two-death-stars-bankrupte-1746082150

Some people have far too much time on their hands...


----------



## captainmission (Jan 2, 2016)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Seriously, though, how long would it actually take and how much effort would it be to turn an entire fucking planet into a gun? And nobody even _notices_? You'd have thought after being caught by surprise by the first two bloody Death Stars the Rebel Alliance would pay slightly more attention.



It actually makes a lot of sense to hollow out a (dwarf) planet. Star killer base is around 10 times the size of the first death star, or about 1,200km diameter-  it's basically a slightly bigger Ceres. If you're going to make a big spherical ball of matter that shoots death beams it's far better to start with a big spherical ball of matter and take away, rather than gather up matter from asteroids (or other planets if you want to make life hard) and make you big ball from scratch. It'd have a gravity problem, unless it's incredibly dense (in which case it's a bad idea to dig a massive canyon and tunnel through the middle). They'd need to install artificial gravity everywhere, but they had to do that on the original death star. They also wouldn't need to massively over engineer the floor space by having decks - the original death star had floor space of 360,000,000 km^2 about the same as the surface of all the oceans on earth - for a population of 367,000. Greenland has a population density 30 time higher than the death star. Star killer base is a much more manageable Russia Indian subcontinent sized bit of land.

As for why no one would notice- they live in a space travelling civilization. Surely people are mining asteroid and planetiods all the time. Mining metals on planets with significant gravity would be silly. Doomsday weapon construction is probably indistinguishable from any SME space mining company.


----------



## PursuedByBears (Jan 2, 2016)

Saw it for the second time today, this time with my Star Wars-loving seven year-old daughter. We were at the climactic light sabre battle in the snow on Starkiller base between Kylo Ren and Rey and the cinema was silent while they fought each other to a standstill, until Liberty shouted "Rey, stand on his foot!". She loved the film and watching her reactions as the scenes unfolded reminded me of watching Return of the Jedi in the cinema at a similar age.


----------



## Ax^ (Jan 3, 2016)

Finally got around to seeing it,

All I can say is why is anyone bothering to look for Skywalker when anyone with a gift in the force can close their eyes and follow the force..

FFs even a ex storm trooper can hold his own against a slight teenage angsty sith

Saying that it's nubbings but entertaining nubbings


----------



## binka (Jan 3, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> Tis a big old galaxy.


The new film seemed to dispense with any sense of distance or scale. Everything seems very close


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 3, 2016)

binka said:


> The new film seemed to dispense with any sense of distance or scale. Everything seems very close



Abrams' Star Trek movies are very simillar. This has a lot to do with how he paces and structures films IMO, he doesn't ever seem to have time for an entire scene that's just calm and quiet. What calm and quiet there is has to be bookended with explosions and shouting. Space travel is great for calm, quiet scenes but Abrams always just wants to be at the next place straight away.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 3, 2016)

Ax^ said:


> All I can say is why is anyone bothering to look for Skywalker when anyone with a gift in the force can close their eyes and follow the force..



There's precedent for jedi folk hiding from other force users though. Yoda and Kenobi both did likewise.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 3, 2016)

binka said:


> The new film seemed to dispense with any sense of distance or scale. Everything seems very close



This I agree with, it's the one thing I didn't like about the film, felt very small where as the original films felt like an epic journey across the stars. This one was more like getting the job across London.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 3, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This I agree with, it's the one thing I didn't like about the film, felt very small where as the original films felt like an epic journey across the stars. This one was more like getting the job across London.


This started with the prequels, which made crossing the galaxy about as difficult as popping to the shop for a pint of milk.


----------



## binka (Jan 3, 2016)

With scale i also meant the set piece battles. How many capital ships did we see? A couple but not involved in the fighting. In the fights themselves just a couple of dozen x wings and tie fighters. Only ever a couole of dozen stormtroopers in any of the fights either. It all felt a bit like a couple of regional or local powers going at it rather than some galaxy spanning entities


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 3, 2016)

binka said:


> With scale i also meant the set piece battles. How many capital ships did we see? A couple but not involved in the fighting. In the fights themselves just a couple of dozen x wings and tie fighters. Only ever a couole of dozen stormtroopers in any of the fights either. It all felt a bit like a couple of regional or local powers going at it rather than some galaxy spanning entities


the First Order are a remnant of empire- an emergent and powerful force with plenty of resources and scope but not the Empire of old. The Resistance are in a similar position- despite being disowned by the Republic you damn well know theres money and weapons being feed through sly lines. Niether are fighting at full whack on terms of previous scales


As for locality 'regional'

there is no regional when you can slap an FTL drive on a ship as small as one manned fighter craft really is there?


----------



## binka (Jan 3, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> the First Order are a remnant of empire- an emergent and powerful force with plenty of resources and scope but not the Empire of old. The Resistance are in a similar position- despite being disowned by the Republic you damn well know theres money and weapons being feed through sly lines. Niether are fighting at full whack on this front in any case.
> 
> 
> As for locality 'regional'
> ...


Ftl doesn't (or shouldn't) equal instantaneous travel. Its linked into the criticism of distance i think. 

Both sides should have had more to bring to the fight, what we ended up with was a series of skirmishes


----------



## captainmission (Jan 3, 2016)

binka said:


> With scale i also meant the set piece battles. How many capital ships did we see? A couple but not involved in the fighting. In the fights themselves just a couple of dozen x wings and tie fighters. Only ever a couole of dozen stormtroopers in any of the fights either. It all felt a bit like a couple of regional or local powers going at it rather than some galaxy spanning entities



Cos it didn't happen in a new hope. The film is almost slavish in sticking to the plot points and images of the original trilogy, a new hope in particular. Why only a couple of dozen x wings against a super weapon? Why don't the evacuate their forest base when its due to be blown up? Cos that didn't happen in episode 4.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 3, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> second prequel managed to show a bit of that power. Qu gon Jin and Obi Wan go in to the heart of the enemy and fuck up everyone. on their own
> 
> but seeing how the Jedi order ended did cheapen it. Loads of people have this moan and its a valid one. These supposedly near godlike figures of mental perispacity and ultraviolence bordering on magic got jumped in ten mins flat by clones? And all we get from the nascent vader is killing the kids? rubbish



It's Phantom Menace the Jedi lads do all the damage in. As for the order being wiped out so fast; don't forget how quick the mighty Empire was destroyed by a few pilots and Ewoks on the ground...



Mr Moose said:


> Why light sabres in the future and not guns? They look nice, granted, but it would concern me that my opponent might simply shoot me.



Ah but it's not the future, it's a long time ago...



Santino said:


> He was around 200 during Return of the Jedi.



Chewbacca was also around in the aformentioned prequels, along with other wookies. He has to be the oldest character in the series. IMHO.



Lord Camomile said:


> Did anyone watch it in 3D? Was it worth it? I heard it was a retrofit which don't have the best reputation...



Yup; it was great. I don't see that many 3D films and it was worth it. But will probably see it in 2D next time. I loved the movie and it was particularly satisfying to see the Skelligs on screen - we'd climbed Skellig Michael not long after they filmed there, in 2014.

Apologies if any repetition in replies to older questions - haven't got time to read whole thread. Yet!


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 3, 2016)

Isn't yoda older than chewie?


----------



## Santino (Jan 3, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Chewbacca was also around in the aformentioned prequels, along with other wookies. He has to be the oldest character in the series. IMHO.


Except for Yoda who's around 900 at his death and Maz Janata who's over 1000 in the new film.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 3, 2016)

Santino said:


> Except for Yoda who's around 900 at his death and Maz Janata who's over 1000 in the new film.



Maz is the bar owner, right?


----------



## Santino (Jan 3, 2016)

Yes


----------



## T & P (Jan 3, 2016)

How about the whatsitsface creature from Return of the Jedi that takes a thousand years to digest its victims? That it is common knowledge how long the whole process takes would suggest it is already over 1,000 years old in ROTJ.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 3, 2016)

sarlacc


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jan 3, 2016)

T & P said:


> How about the whatsitsface creature from Return of the Jedi that takes a thousand years to digest its victims? That it is common knowledge how long the whole process takes would suggest it is already over 1,000 years old in ROTJ.


Maybe that was a baby one. They know it takes a thousand years from past sand worms.


----------



## captainmission (Jan 4, 2016)

Jabba the hutt is over 600 years old. Chewbacca might be the oldest surviving star wars character at over 250. Wookies live 400 years, and probably regard humans as little more pets.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 4, 2016)

Mr Moose said:


> Why light sabres in the future and not guns? They look nice, granted, but it would concern me that my opponent might simply shoot me.



The jedi had lightsabres because they are primarily defensive, rather than offensive weapons. The Jedi aren't supposed to go around starting fights.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 4, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> The jedi had lightsabres because they are primarily defensive, rather than offensive weapons. The Jedi aren't supposed to go around starting fights.


I thought it was because they had a bit of a fetish for chopping people's limbs of, or is that just George Lucus?

Thats what was missing for Ep 7! No one lost an arm.


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2016)

emanymton said:


> Thats what was missing for Ep 7! No one lost an arm.


C3P0 had lost an arm sometime in the recent past. His new arm was red.


----------



## Virtual Blue (Jan 4, 2016)

Santino said:


> C3P0 had lost an arm sometime in the recent past. His new arm was red.



i didn't recognise him


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 4, 2016)

I saw some of the original concept art for threepio from first trilogy. He looked ethereal and elegant. Like those robot paintings you'd see on polish sf covers, sort of retro-future elegant.

Didn't really transfer that gravitas onto film did they?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 4, 2016)




----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 4, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


>



That brings back memories. Threepio looks very Fritz Lang.  There were a few of those paintings in this magazine; which I once owned


----------



## captainmission (Jan 4, 2016)

emanymton said:


> I thought it was because they had a bit of a fetish for chopping people's limbs of, or is that just George Lucus?
> 
> Thats what was missing for Ep 7! No one lost an arm.



Because after 5,000 years of Jedi history they've finally figured out that a near weightless that cuts though anything with ease is a better for stabbing with than making dramatic swing arcs that leave you exposed.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 4, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Didn't really transfer that gravitas onto film did they?



He's a comic relief character, gravitas wouldn't suit him.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 4, 2016)

emanymton said:


> Thats what was missing for Ep 7! No one lost an arm.



Ren got chopped up a bit right at the end, but he didn't seem to lose any limbs.

Strange also that Chewie's bowcaster is capable of blowing half a dozen stormtroopers to bits with one shot and yet a direct hit on one skinny emo kid only leaves a flesh wound.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 4, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> He's a comic relief character, gravitas wouldn't suit him.


I'm aware of this but that concept art captured a very different character to the stiff limbed comedy english shit-out. I can look at that and imagine a cool, urbane and unknowable protocol droid intelligence rather than 'Master Luke! it seems I'm a dick again! oh no!' you get in the film


----------



## Santino (Jan 4, 2016)

At one point in production C3PO was going to have the voice of an oily used car salesman.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 4, 2016)

Watched yesterday. Loved. Some script bloopers as there has been in every star wars film. I have no geeky observations to add. It was wonderful for me.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 4, 2016)

I got the feeling some of the dialogue was deliberately cheesy as part of the general spirit of paying homage to the original trilogy. Some genuinely funny jokes though, Boyega in particular has a really good sense of comic timing and it was well used.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 4, 2016)

I particularly liked his over-excited "think you're so tough huh?" lines when they had Phasma captive


----------



## T & P (Jan 4, 2016)

I just hope everything will be explained in the forthcoming films (3CPO's red arm, Rey's flashbacks when she first touches the lightsaber, what happened with Luke's Jedi school, etc). I rate Abrams highly but he has form on showing all these mysteries and riddles and leaving them unexplained. Lost was a particularly bad one for that.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 4, 2016)

T & P said:


> I just hope everything will be explained in the forthcoming films (3CPO's red arm, Rey's flashbacks when she first touches the lightsaber, what happened with Luke's Jedi school, etc). I rate Abrams highly but he has form on showing all these mysteries and riddles and leaving them unexplained. Lost was a particularly bad one for that.


Lost was out of his control, AFAIK.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2016)

new hope set up loads that wasn't explained till later


----------



## belboid (Jan 5, 2016)

Saw it last night, and it was fun. Nothing more than that mind. Half a great movie, if they'd done all the cannibalisation of the first three in the first half, and then moved onto to something new, it could have been truly great. As it was...good performances from Boyega and Ridley, not convinced by Driver yet. Good to see Han die (and with a $25 million plus points deal, I don't think Ford will mind not being in the rest too much), and BB8 was fun. Whether any of it stacks up, we'll have to wait until the next one to really find out.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 5, 2016)

belboid said:


> Saw it last night, and it was fun. Nothing more than that mind. Half a great movie, if they'd done all the cannibalisation of the first three in the first half, and then moved onto to something new, it could have been truly great. As it was...good performances from Boyega and Ridley, not convinced by Driver yet. Good to see Han die (and with a $25 million plus points deal, I don't think Ford will mind not being in the rest too much), and BB8 was fun. Whether any of it stacks up, we'll have to wait until the next one to really find out.


happy birthday belboid!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> new hope set up loads that wasn't explained till later



Abrams has said he's deliberately copied Lucas' trick of dumping you in the middle of a situation without explaining everything that's going on, in order to create a sense of a wider universe that the viewer doesn't know about yet. Hence we don't know what the deal is with the first order, or exactly what Kylo Ren's job is besides smashing shit up and pouting. 

I'm not sure that trick is quite so effective when almost everyone knows at least something about the universe we're in, and it was kinda undermined by all the callbacks to stuff from the original trilogy.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2016)

mrsfran said:


> I really enjoyed it
> 
> Was furious to go to the Disney store afterwards and find that the main "Here are all the action figures from the new star wars" box does not contain Rey. Or Leia. Rey is the MAIN PERSON IN THE FILM. Not included in the action figure box. FFS.


http://io9.gizmodo.com/rey-is-missing-from-new-star-wars-monopoly-and-this-is-1751001963


----------



## no-no (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Then why was it being used as a garbage container on Jakku? Or did I mishear amongst the explosions?



The falcon has always been a street sleeper hasn't it?


----------



## no-no (Jan 5, 2016)

T & P said:


> I just hope everything will be explained in the forthcoming films (3CPO's red arm, Rey's flashbacks when she first touches the lightsaber, what happened with Luke's Jedi school, etc). I rate Abrams highly but he has form on showing all these mysteries and riddles and leaving them unexplained. Lost was a particularly bad one for that.



All that stuff we've missed.....the jedi school and ren's fall to the dark side......that's another trilogy being setup right there. Phantom Menace 2.....


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

no-no said:


> All that stuff we've missed.....the jedi school and ren's fall to the dark side......that's another trilogy being setup right there. Phantom Menace 2.....


Phantom Menace 2? What do you mean?


----------



## Bonfirelight (Jan 5, 2016)

no-no said:


> All that stuff we've missed.....the jedi school and ren's fall to the dark side......that's another trilogy being setup right there. Phantom Menace 2.....


I think that would be a stretch. They'd also mess up their episode numbering (Episode VI.1?)
It'll probably all be explained via exposition and flashbacks in this trilogy.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

viii and ix are already greenlit with full crews and casts, aren't they?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2016)

yes. Due to start filming soon as. We don't get the next one till 2017 though because theres a Rogue Squadron film coming out. So I read anyway.

As much as I like Rogue Squadron and enjoyed a few books I dunno if we can get a whole film out of such a wafer thin premise.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> yes. Due to start filming soon as. We don't get the next one till 2017 though because theres a Rogue Squadron film coming out. So I read anyway.
> 
> As much as I like Rogue Squadron and enjoyed a few books I dunno if we can get a whole film out of such a wafer thin premise.


AFAIK, they're just making a film called "Rogue One" and then further Anthology films will be about other stuff in the SW universe


----------



## Santino (Jan 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> yes. Due to start filming soon as. We don't get the next one till 2017 though because theres a Rogue Squadron film coming out. So I read anyway.
> 
> As much as I like Rogue Squadron and enjoyed a few books I dunno if we can get a whole film out of such a wafer thin premise.


It's not an X-wing film, it's about the commando squad that steals the Death Star plans. Imagine one of those films about breaking into some Nazi fortress in the snow somewhere.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2016)

Santino said:


> It's not an X-wing film, it's about the commando squad that steals the Death Star plans. Imagine one of those films about breaking into some Nazi fortress in the snow somewhere.


'where eagles dare' sort of thing

yeah I can probably live with that


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> yes. Due to start filming soon as. We don't get the next one till 2017 though because theres a Rogue Squadron film coming out. So I read anyway.
> 
> As much as I like Rogue Squadron and enjoyed a few books I dunno if we can get a whole film out of such a wafer thin premise.


Is it a separate story strand then?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Is it a separate story strand then?



Set back in the original trilogy era I think.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> viii and ix are already greenlit with full crews and casts, aren't they?



Rian Johnson is writing them both, and directing epsiode VIII. This is very good news IMO.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> Rian Johnson is writing them both, and directing epsiode VIII. This is very good news IMO.


 he did that shit Brick film.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 5, 2016)

You can be sure many bothans will die in it


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> he did that shit Brick film.


HOW. DAAAAAAAARE. YOU!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> he did that shit Brick film.



Except it was great.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

Lord Camomile said:


> HOW. DAAAAAAAARE. YOU!


First one of those films where everyone mumbles and you don't know wtf is going on.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 5, 2016)

And where has Joseph Gordon Levitt gone since then eh?

Oh yeah, he's now in every moive there is. Silly me.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> And where has Joseph Gordon Levitt gone since then eh?
> 
> Oh yeah, he's now in every moive there is. Silly me.


Which means nowt.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> First one of those films where everyone mumbles and you don't know wtf is going on.


You say that like it's a bad thing


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

Lord Camomile said:


> You say that like it's a bad thing


It's a terrible thing.


----------



## belboid (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> First one of those films where everyone mumbles and you don't know wtf is going on.


what, you mean it's a film where you have to pay attention and think?  How very bloody dreadful


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

belboid said:


> what, you mean it's a film where you have to pay attention and think?  How very bloody dreadful


No, you need to switch the subtitles on to understand it and then it still doesn't make sense.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> No, you need to switch the subtitles on to understand it and then it still doesn't make sense.


I understood it pretty well the first time, and then filled in the details with further viewings.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

Lord Camomile said:


> I understood it pretty well the first time, and then filled in the details with further viewings.


Well then I must be stupid.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Well then I must be stupid.


I'm not sure that's where I'd immediately leap to, but if you wish! 

I do get how it might be a bit inaccessible at first, and that I was willing to stick with it because I enjoyed other aspects of it, but it really is a decent film with more inventiveness and ideas than a lot of what Hollywood usually produces.


----------



## belboid (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> No, you need to switch the subtitles on to understand it and then it still doesn't make sense.


Most noirs are complicated, and sometimes require a reviewing to get all the details (and even then...who killed the chauffeur?), it's a pretty much canonical feature of the genre


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

Lord Camomile said:


> I'm not sure that's where I'd immediately leap to, but if you wish!
> 
> I do get how it might be a bit inaccessible at first, and that I was willing to stick with it because I enjoyed other aspects of it, but it really is a decent film with more inventiveness and ideas than a lot of what Hollywood usually produces.


Admittedly it put me off from the start.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

belboid said:


> Most noirs are complicated, and sometimes require a reviewing to get all the details (and even then...who killed the chauffeur?), it's a pretty much canonical feature of the genre


It was so jarring though. Really offputting, esp since it was all sunny and bright and in colour.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> It was so jarring though. Really offputting, esp since it was all sunny and bright and in colour.


That was half the point!  Johnson wanted to take viewers out of the comfort of established tropes, placing a noir detective story in the middle of a sun-bleached California high-school. It's one of the reasons I loved it so much


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

Looper was shit too, but he gets a pass for doing three episodes of Breaking Bad.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 5, 2016)

Mumbles274 said:


> You can be sure many bothans will die in it


Not that one.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Looper was shit too, but he gets a pass for doing three episodes of Breaking Bad.


Looper wasn't as complete a film IMHO, but I still enjoyed it even if he did basically nick the entire premise of a short film I wanted to do


----------



## twentythreedom (Jan 5, 2016)

Santino said:


> At one point in production C3PO was going to have the voice of an oily used car salesman.


Swiss Threepiony would've been cool


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 5, 2016)

'Luke, mastering the force is very much like making love to a beautiful woman'


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 5, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> 'Luke, mastering the force is very much like making love to a beautiful woman'



Just try to make sure she's not your sister this time.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Looper was shit too, but he gets a pass for doing three episodes of Breaking Bad.



Looper was the best time travelling flick with Bruce Willis since 12 Monkeys.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> Looper was the best time travelling flick with Bruce Willis since 12 Monkeys.


wasn't keen on that either!


----------



## kabbes (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> wasn't keen on that either!


Don't tell me -- you didn't get it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

kabbes said:


> Don't tell me -- you didn't get it.


i got it alright. just didn't think it was very good. it's no back to the future.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> i got it alright. just didn't think it was very good. it's no back to the future.



It's not meant to be.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 5, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> It's not meant to be.


that's the joke.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jan 5, 2016)

http://io9.gizmodo.com/all-the-back...utm_source=io9_facebook&utm_medium=socialflow


loads of back story


----------



## belboid (Jan 6, 2016)

Rey doll not included in SW Monopoly to 'avoid spoilers' - Hasbro claims it dropped Rey in Star Wars Monopoly to avoid spoilers


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 6, 2016)

belboid said:


> Rey doll not included in SW Monopoly to 'avoid spoilers' - Hasbro claims it dropped Rey in Star Wars Monopoly to avoid spoilers


Theres an article on that posted upthread by me. Its part of a long running theme here including female characters from other franchises, comics etc. Not just availability of merch but treatment of character, distro of product etc etc. 

The comic book makers are at least starting to get better at this but as we can see, long way to go. Theres literally no excuse for not having rey. vader/kylo makes sense. luke/rey makes sense. Luke and Finn? not making sense.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 6, 2016)

belboid said:


> Rey doll not included in SW Monopoly to 'avoid spoilers' - Hasbro claims it dropped Rey in Star Wars Monopoly to avoid spoilers


Don't read the comments. Lots of bullshit about how it was a choice between being racist or sexist because the other characters were to important to leave out! Why there can only be 4 pieces in a game played by 2-8 players?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 6, 2016)

mrsfran was incensed by this bullshit on page 3 of the thread. Guardian lagging behind a story by weeks again. Not the monopoly one, the four figurine set you can get. That doesn't include the films main character because...


----------



## scifisam (Jan 6, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> Don't read the comments. Lots of bullshit about how it was a choice between being racist or sexist because the other characters were to important to leave out! Why there can only be 4 pieces in a game played by 2-8 players?



Yeah, there are usually six. 

And including Finn was just as much of a spoiler, surely?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 6, 2016)

scifisam said:


> Yeah, there are usually six.
> 
> And including Finn was just as much of a spoiler, surely?


the only way you could cry spoiler is that it could imply that Rey is soon to become Luke's new padawan. Which is so obvious you'd need a lobotomy to miss it. Or be a kid and not wise to the ways of fiction yet and in that case you probably wouldn't make the connection from a monopoly game anyway


----------



## scifisam (Jan 6, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> the only way you could cry spoiler is that it could imply that Rey is soon to become Luke's new padawan. Which is so obvious you'd need a lobotomy to miss it. Or be a kid and not wise to the ways of fiction yet and in that case you probably wouldn't make the connection from a monopoly game anyway



I'm not sure it'd imply even that. I certainly wouldn't make that connection and I'm pretty wise to the ways of fiction.


----------



## belboid (Jan 6, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> Don't read the comments. Lots of bullshit about how it was a choice between being racist or sexist because the other characters were to important to leave out! Why there can only be 4 pieces in a game played by 2-8 players?


_Never _read the comments!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 6, 2016)

Crispy said:


> I particularly liked his over-excited "think you're so tough huh?" lines when they had Phasma captive



Yeah and Solo telling him to bring it down a bit!


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jan 6, 2016)

Here is some click bait... 

21 Pictures Of The Cast Of 'Star Wars' Then And Now


----------



## oneunder (Jan 6, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I liked lukes bereavment beard


Yeah, He's grown into his face quite well.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Jan 6, 2016)

Rutita1 said:


> Here is some click bait...
> 
> 21 Pictures Of The Cast Of 'Star Wars' Then And Now


That is some _baaad _bait! And inaccurate as some of those people are dead and will look nothing like those pics.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 6, 2016)

Finally seen it this afternoon. Thought it was great fun.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 6, 2016)

I only just managed to get through half of the Star Wars Holiday Special. It's too shit even for watching to see how shit it is.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 6, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> I only just managed to get through half of the Star Wars Holiday Special. It's too shit even for watching to see how shit it is.


Despite owning it for... shit, was uni over 10 years ago?! Anyway, always meant to watch it with friends but we never got round to it. I've seen the first 10 minutes, up to the wookie VR porn, but that's it.


----------



## xenon (Jan 6, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> mrsfran was incensed by this bullshit on page 3 of the thread. Guardian lagging behind a story by weeks again. Not the monopoly one, the four figurine set you can get. That doesn't include the films main character because...



 I don't understand these new Star Wars toys.  As much as I like Star Wars, I'm obviously not about to buy Star Wars figures again. Do they not make individual figures any more? Either way, leaving out one of the main characters is utterly ridiculous.  I CBA reading that artical seeing a load of sexist and racist internet inadequates whining.


----------



## xenon (Jan 6, 2016)

Lord Camomile said:


> Despite owning it for... shit, was uni over 10 years ago?! Anyway, always meant to watch it with friends but we never got round to it. I've seen the first 10 minutes, up to the wookie VR porn, but that's it.



 Yeah I downloaded it around the same time. Watched it once. Just worse than bad.  What the fuck were they thinking.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 6, 2016)

xenon said:


> Do they not make individual figures any more?



they make star wars everything and always have. There's a running joke about this in mel broooks Space Balls


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 6, 2016)

I went to the supermarket after watching it this afternoon and there was Star Wars branded Volvic mineral water.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 6, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> I went to the supermarket after watching it this afternoon and there was Star Wars branded Volvic mineral water.


May the force be with l'eau.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 6, 2016)




----------



## Santino (Jan 6, 2016)

kabbes said:


> May the force be with l'eau.


Chewie... we're l'eau.


----------



## magneze (Jan 6, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> View attachment 81694


Darth Vader played a mean harmonica.


----------



## xenon (Jan 6, 2016)

kabbes said:


> May the force be with l'eau.




 I wanted to do  that  but the only mineral waters I could think of were Evian and Volvic...

Ah of course French for lo. 

 I am altering the deal  Perrier  I don't water it further.


----------



## seventh bullet (Jan 7, 2016)

I saw it yesterday and thought it was fun, as someone who isn't a fan.  Kylo Ren's in-helmet baddie voice was one of the best things, and I liked his childish tantrums, striking fear into his underlings.  I sniggered at the end when Luke showed his sad face.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 7, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> View attachment 81694



This has being doing the rounds, the illogic of it given Vaders body was burned has been nearly side stepped by this odd theory that his ghost split in two: Anankin as we see him at the end of Jedi and Vader who someone how is back as Snoke...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 7, 2016)

I'm not buying that for a minute


----------



## ska invita (Jan 7, 2016)

i saw somewhere mentioned theory that Snoke is Darth Plaugus...whoever Darth Plaugus is...this is based on the music played when Snoke is on screen being "plagus's theme" from the prequels... some serious nerdery going on to spot that


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 7, 2016)

its not him either


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> its not him either


I reckon it's Smeagol


----------



## kabbes (Jan 7, 2016)

I reckon whoever he is, he'll turn out to be two inches high.  Like Gachnar in the Buffy episode "Fear, Itself".


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2016)

I just assumed he was Palpatine


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2016)

Quite a disappointing villain really. He needs to look weirder and horribler. He just looks like a standard Tolkien villain - part Orc/part-Gollum


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 7, 2016)

masks are better for sith villainy. Lets your imagination come up with worse. Lets face it, when ren took his helmet off the whiff of emo threatened to undermine all his menace


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2016)

Maybe it's Jar Jar


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 7, 2016)

Lord Camomile said:


> Despite owning it for... shit, was uni over 10 years ago?! Anyway, always meant to watch it with friends but we never got round to it. I've seen the first 10 minutes, up to the wookie VR porn, but that's it.



Wonderful RTE screened it when I was a kid. I have to say, I initially thought it was the sequel and was surprised at the direction it was going in. The only good thing about it was an animated introduction to Boba Fett. Whom I later sent away for; collecting tokens and what not. You couldn't buy the figure in the shops at that time.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2016)

Snoke:


----------



## emanymton (Jan 7, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Maybe it's Jar Jar


Are you aware that there is a fan theory that the original plan of the prequels was for Jar Jar to be a Sith Lord, or is that all your own work?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2016)

emanymton said:


> Are you aware that there is a fan theory that the original plan of the prequels was for Jar Jar to be a Sith Lord, or is that all your own work?


hardly work - just a silly joke!


----------



## Gromit (Jan 7, 2016)

The voice of Supreme Leader Snoke is credited to someone whose name is an anagram of Carrie Fisher.

Princess Leia is the puppeteer in charge of the First Order and the one responsible for turning her son to the dark side.
Like Palpatine before her she is playing both sides of the coin to achieve her aims of restoring order to the galaxy.
Along the way she will have been exploring her strong force powers which because of emotional conflicts between her, Han, Luke and her Son have left an easy door open to dark side seduction.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 7, 2016)

Gromit said:


> The voice of Supreme Leader Snoke is credited to someone whose name is an anagram of Carrie Fisher.
> 
> Princess Leia is the puppeteer in charge of the First Order and the one responsible for turning her son to the dark side.
> Like Palpatine before her she is playing both sides of the coin to achieve her aims of restoring order to the galaxy.
> Along the way she will have been exploring her strong force powers which because of emotional conflicts between her, Han, Luke and her Son have left an easy door open to dark side seduction.


wtf are you on about?
andy serkis did the voice.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 7, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> wtf are you on about?
> andy serkis did the voice.



Well, it has an a, an s, an e, an r, and an i! It's practically the same name!


----------



## captainmission (Jan 7, 2016)

ska invita said:


> i saw somewhere mentioned theory that Snoke is Darth Plaugus...whoever Darth Plaugus is...this is based on the music played when Snoke is on screen being "plagus's theme" from the prequels... some serious nerdery going on to spot that



Darth Plaugus is Darth Sidious's/Palpatine's Mentor. Plaugus and Sidious once shot their force evil into the midi-chlorian cloud to make a evil maxi-chlorian sith baby. But the midi-chlorians didn't like it so they made Anakin who would restore balance to the force by murdering children.

I'd imagine the film makers would want to stay clear of the non-sense of the expanded universe. Apart from the time Han Solo punched a space weasel- that should totally be a spin off film.


----------



## Santino (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Snoke:
> View attachment 81731


 Are you suggesting that his supposed powers are all snoke and mirrors?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

captainmission said:


> I'd imagine the film makers would want to stay clear of the non-sense of the expanded universe


yeah its all been declared non cannon so theres no way its plagus


----------



## scifisam (Jan 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah its all been declared non cannon so theres no way its plagus


Canon, not cannon. (I assume the missing apostrophes are deliberate).


----------



## D'wards (Jan 8, 2016)

This must already be the most pontificated film ever. Deep discussion about the stormtrooper who called Fin a traitor - he's an extra with one line - yet folks have really analysed and picked over his backstory.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

Oh joy, there will be Force Awakens slashfic out by now.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah its all been declared non cannon so theres no way its plagus


Darth Plagueis is canon as he's mentioned by Palpatine in The Revenge of the Sith.
His backstory was further canonised in the "Tarkin" novel (after EU became Legends).


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

What's all this stuff about 'canon'?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> What's all this stuff about 'canon'?


Western canon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 8, 2016)

Canon (fiction) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

As of April 25, 2014, the only previously published materials that are considered Star Wars canon are the six _Star Wars_ films and the _Star Wars: The Clone Wars_ television series and film, while the Expanded Universe is no longer considered canon and was re-termed as the "Legends" brand.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

Al those TIE fighter missions I flew, with crappy graphics and back when Star Wars games were actually hard. Lost to me, all along I was in a 'Legend' rather than being a real TIE pilot


----------



## Santino (Jan 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Al those TIE fighter missions I flew, with crappy graphics and back when Star Wars games were actually hard. Lost to me, all along I was in a 'Legend' rather than being a real TIE pilot


I'll always remember reaching the final boss battle in _The Phantom Menace_, and then just Force-pushing Darth Maul down a bottomless pit instead of fighting him with a lightsaber.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Jan 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Al those TIE fighter missions I flew, with crappy graphics and back when Star Wars games were actually hard. Lost to me, all along I was in a 'Legend' rather than being a real TIE pilot


Rest in Legends, Kyle Katarn.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Jan 8, 2016)

http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-obi-wan-kenobi-movie-rumors-have-grown-into-a-whole-1751728138

looks like an obi wan film , possibly a trilogy is on the cards.


----------



## captainmission (Jan 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Oh joy, there will be Force Awakens slashfic out by now.



Not just slash fic, they're already on to body pillows


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Who are they?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-obi-wan-kenobi-movie-rumors-have-grown-into-a-whole-1751728138
> 
> looks like an obi wan film , possibly a trilogy is on the cards.


whatsis face should be about the right age to play a grizzled veteran Ben

its Poe 'dashing' Dameron Orang


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Who are they?


poe dameron  it says so in the image url


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Looks nothing like him!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> poe dameron  it says so in the image url


Facepalm? Christ! You're a big silly.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Looks nothing like him!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Facepalm? Christ! You're a big silly.


and you've no initiative or nous.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Looks nothing like him!


I got it from the jacket he lends finn + x-wing jumpsuit + black hair and good looks

didn't occur to me to check the url lol


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I got it from the jacket he lends finn + x-wing jumpsuit + black hair and good looks
> 
> didn't occur to me to check the url lol


there were two ways to identify him and ou flunked them both.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> there were two ways to identify him and ou flunked them both.



Three, with the third being asking. It's not like they look much like Poe Dameron.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

scifisam said:


> Three, with the third being asking. It's not like they look much like Poe Dameron.


yeh three ways


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 8, 2016)

Not in production till jan 15th 

I'd rather have Spheros amazing BB8 remote cocntrol. They've even brought out a watch style motion control so you can direct BB with gestures like you are using the force. But at 115 odd quids its far too much for a bloody toy


----------



## no-no (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Phantom Menace 2? What do you mean?



A movie covering the fall of ren.....if the next couple of movies don't cover it that is in flashbacks maybe? As bonfirelight said it would mess up their numbering though. I think Disney will milk this, numbering system be damned.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

Pickman's model said:


> there were two ways to identify him and ou flunked them both.


So what? You really are a petty individual.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> So what? You really are a petty individual.


yeh yeh, change the bloody record  you should be grateful to me and DotCommunist - a like here and there wouldn't go amiss. it's not like anyone else was bothering to help you out.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 8, 2016)

I


DotCommunist said:


> I got it from the jacket he lends finn + x-wing jumpsuit + black hair and good looks
> 
> didn't occur to me to check the url lol


 I thought it had to be him, but it's a poor likeness. Far too young.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 8, 2016)

captainmission said:


> Not just slash fic, they're already on to body pillows



star wars dakimakura...  I'm almost tempted.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 8, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> star wars dakimakura...  I'm almost tempted.


yeh if only they had daisy ridley on them


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 8, 2016)

actually I want a chewie one


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 8, 2016)

I think the flightsuit one is a pretty good likeness, the civvy clothes one looks like a completely different person.


----------



## T & P (Jan 9, 2016)

Out of curiosity, who actually dictates what material is canon? Lucas? A Disney committee? 

How about the Star Trek universe? I'd imagine that's even more complex, as it is not all the brainchild of one individual who is still around.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 9, 2016)

For Star Wars, since Disney took ownership, the Lucasfilm Story Group determines what is canon.

For Trek it used to be Gene Roddenberry and I assume it's now whoever owns the license.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Jan 9, 2016)

ska invita said:


> i saw somewhere mentioned theory that Snoke is Darth Plaugus...whoever Darth Plaugus is...this is based on the music played when Snoke is on screen being "plagus's theme" from the prequels... some serious nerdery going on to spot that



That was my first thought when I first saw it, still think it is although the Inquisitor theory is compelling.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 9, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> actually I want a chewie one


with ewok pillows


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 9, 2016)

ska invita said:


> i saw somewhere mentioned theory that Snoke is Darth Plaugus...whoever Darth Plaugus is...this is based on the music played when Snoke is on screen being "plagus's theme" from the prequels... some serious nerdery going on to spot that



He totally is.

The convo between thingy (edit: Windu... stupid name) and the Emperor is about Plaugus having the power to cheat death...

Snoke looks pretty fucking old, and beat up. He can cheat death but he can't stop himself from bearing the scars of battle.

Theory: he's training up Kylo Ren so he can steal his body and go on even longer.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 9, 2016)

T & P said:


> Out of curiosity, who actually dictates what material is canon? Lucas? A Disney committee?
> 
> How about the Star Trek universe? I'd imagine that's even more complex, as it is not all the brainchild of one individual who is still around.


I maintain you can decide your own canon.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 9, 2016)

kabbes said:


> I maintain you can decide your own canon.


Yeah, my cannon consists only of episodes 4-7


----------



## kabbes (Jan 9, 2016)

Knights of the Old Republic is canon to me.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 9, 2016)

kabbes said:


> Knights of the Old Republic is canon to me.


Actually yeah good point, I'll add that to my canon as well.


----------



## Santino (Jan 9, 2016)

One of the funniest and saddest things I've ever read about Star Wars nerdery was the man whose own personal canon was Episodes IV and V followed by his friend's fanfic version of VI in which in turns out that Vader is not Luke's dad after all.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 9, 2016)

emanymton said:


> Yeah, my cannon consists only of episodes 4-7


+ Ewoks Battle for Endor and Caravan of Courage


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 14, 2016)




----------



## scifisam (Jan 14, 2016)

I watched it again yesterday, with my daughter who's now seen it five times. Anyway, wasn't someone in this thread saying how stupid it was that the Republic and the Resistance were in the same system? They're not. At one point Leia says "they're going to target our system next." 

So that's that plothole filled, then.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2016)

scifisam said:


> I watched it again yesterday, with my daughter who's now seen it five times. Anyway, wasn't someone in this thread saying how stupid it was that the Republic and the Resistance were in the same system? They're not. At one point Leia says "they're going to target our system next."
> 
> So that's that plothole filled, then.


Physics would suggest they were pretty bloody close to see the laser cross the sky.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 14, 2016)

Poe/Finn is canon afaic.

And Darth Jar Jar is about as canon as you can get.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 14, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> Physics would suggest they were pretty bloody close to see the laser cross the sky.



That's just theatricality. See also: pew pew in space.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 14, 2016)

God, can you imagine how god awful boring films would be if they were all 100% scientifically accurate and plausible?


----------



## scifisam (Jan 14, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> Physics would suggest they were pretty bloody close to see the laser cross the sky.



They didn't see the laser cross the sky. We saw the laser, but all the people on the Resistance planet saw was a distant blob in the sky flaring up and disappearing. Anyway, Leia specifically says they were in a different system, and she trumps you, I'm afraid.

The physics of the weapon make no sense at all but Star Wars is fantasy, not SF.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> That's just theatricality. See also: pew pew in space.


Yeah, I know why it was done. As discussed up thread it could of been done in a better way. There was an episode of Star Trek where most of the battle took place on a computer screen showing a grid and the badges representing the participants floating around and disappearing if they were destroyed. Effective, cheap and provided some real drama. That scene made the totally unscary superweapon ridiculous as well and was bloody distracting. The complete lack of threat around the starkiller was probably the weakest aspect of the film for me.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 14, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> Yeah, I know why it was done. As discussed up thread it could of been done in a better way. There was an episode of Star Trek where most of the battle took place on a computer screen showing a grid and the badges representing the participants floating around and disappearing if they were destroyed. Effective, cheap and provided some real drama. That scene made the totally unscary superweapon ridiculous as well and was bloody distracting. The complete lack of threat around the starkiller was probably the weakest aspect of the film for me.



But you've misunderstood the scene - the people on the Resistance planet did not see a laser streaking across the sky.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2016)

scifisam said:


> They didn't see the laser cross the sky. We saw the laser, but all the people on the Resistance planet saw was a distant blob in the sky flaring up and disappearing. Anyway, Leia specifically says they were in a different system, and she trumps you, I'm afraid.
> 
> The physics of the weapon make no sense at all but Star Wars is fantasy, not SF.


I was being facetious about it being close. Characters on other planets saw it cross the sky above them and do some unconvincing faces. IIRC the plot hole discussed up thread was due to the laser so not "closed".


----------



## scifisam (Jan 14, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> I was being facetious about it being close. Characters on other planets saw it cross the sky above them and do some unconvincing faces. IIRC the plot hole discussed up thread was due to the laser so not "closed".



The only other planet was the one that as being shot by the laser, and they didn't see a giant laser streaking across the sky but waves of horrendous fire. And if Leia says they're in a different system you don't get to argue that she's wrong. That is about as closed as a plothole can be.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2016)

scifisam said:


> But you've misunderstood the scene - the people on the Resistance planet did not see a laser streaking across the sky.


It was almost a month ago but I seem to remember a couple of characters perhaps the Princess and the smuggler looking up and seeing it cross the sky from neither Starkiller base or the target.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2016)

scifisam said:


> The only other planet was the one that as being shot by the laser, and they didn't see a giant laser streaking across the sky but waves of horrendous fire. And if Leia says they're in a different system you don't get to argue that she's wrong. That is about as closed as a plothole can be.


I am not arguing they are in the same system. Read the first line you have quoted.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 14, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> It was almost a month ago but I seem to remember a couple of characters perhaps the Princess and the smuggler looking up and seeing it cross the sky from neither Starkiller base or the target.



"The Princess and the smuggler?" Odd phrasing.

I saw it yesterday and they didn't look up and see a laser. You won't accept you're wrong though, so I'm not going to bother repeating myself yet again.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 14, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> I am not arguing they are in the same system. Read the first line you have quoted.



What on earth are you quoting me for then?


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> It was almost a month ago but I seem to remember a costar





scifisam said:


> "The Princess and the smuggler?" Odd phrasing.
> 
> I saw it yesterday and they didn't look up and see a laser. You won't accept you're wrong though, so I'm not going to bother repeating myself yet again.


Actually I'll take your word for it. That's why I said it ws a month ago and I only seemed to remember it. I was aware of when you'd seen. I read your post.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2016)

scifisam said:


> What on earth are you quoting me for then?


Because there were several plotholes causes by the lasers visibility and speed discussed around page 15 and 16 that I assumed you were aware of (Plotholes/annoyances etc).


----------



## scifisam (Jan 14, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> Because there were several plotholes causes by the lasers visibility and speed discussed around page 15 and 16 that I assumed you were aware of (Plotholes/annoyances etc).



But the only plothole I was talking about was whether they were in the same star system. Whatever you think about the physics of it, if a character says they're in a different system then they are.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 14, 2016)

scifisam said:


> But the only plothole I was talking about was whether they were in the same star system. Whatever you think about the physics of it, if a character says they're in a different system then they are.


Yes, that very small hole that I never went in for is closed. The others raised by the shit weapon which as you referred the earlier conversation I assumed you were aware of were not. I'm still pretty sure I remember several characters seeing it cross the sky from Maz or whatever the Mos Eisely planet was called making it almost in a direct path from starkiller base to the targets which seemed silly. That is what I want by close. A hairs width astronomically. If this scene is a figment of my imagination (though frankly I think I'm capable of better) then fuck knows what people were talking about.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 14, 2016)

There is a bit of a loop hole.  This isn't a laser. They specifically  mention it is a hyperlight weapon. Presumable it accelerates the beam weapon to hyper light speeds  to reach across systems.  You could argue  that the radiated light is originally being leaked out at hyperlight speeds.  Thus the ability to see things across systems in near real time.

bullshit yes  but science fantasy  reasonable  bullshit.  

although  I do seem to remember being able to see the planets too before the explosion....

crap	

To the wookiepidea!


----------



## xenon (Jan 15, 2016)

You can't see lasers, sorry hyper light weapons in space. There is nothing for them to refract through.

 A K a star wars science is still bullshit. But that isn't what you watch Star Wars for.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 15, 2016)

that would only be the case with a laser. You could argue it's not just light  but the entirety of the sun compressed and accelerated.The beam itself radiates the light.

yes it's not good science  but   calling a fantasy  beam weapon a laser is wrong too.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 15, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> There is a bit of a loop hole.  This isn't a laser. They specifically  mention it is a hyperlight weapon. Presumable it accelerates the beam weapon to hyper light speeds  to reach across systems.  You could argue  that the radiated light is originally being leaked out at hyperlight speeds.  Thus the ability to see things across systems in near real time.
> 
> bullshit yes  but science fantasy  reasonable  bullshit.
> 
> ...


Aye, that's what someone said before and is also the explanation given in one of the novelisations. That doesn't explain why it appears to move so slowly though.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 15, 2016)

It could just be a perspective thing. I can't remember where everyone is supposed to be.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 15, 2016)

The answer, is that it looked good on screen.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 15, 2016)

Want to be in Episode VIII?

Star Wars: Episode VIII casting for extras and photo doubles | Disney Casting Calls


----------



## souljacker (Jan 15, 2016)

Lazy Llama said:


> Want to be in Episode VIII?
> 
> Star Wars: Episode VIII casting for extras and photo doubles | Disney Casting Calls



That says Han is in the next episode! Presumably as a ghost but maybe he survived?


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 15, 2016)

souljacker said:


> That says Han is in the next episode! Presumably as a ghost but maybe he survived?


And no mention of Adam Driver...


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 15, 2016)

Other sources say Adam Driver is in it. 
As for Ford, flashbacks to Ren turning to the Dark Side maybe?


----------



## emanymton (Jan 15, 2016)

souljacker said:


> That says Han is in the next episode! Presumably as a ghost but maybe he survived?





Lazy Llama said:


> And no mention of Adam Driver...


 A lot of flashbacks maybe, explaining a lot of the backstory?


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 15, 2016)

emanymton said:


> The answer, is that it looked good on screen.


I thought it looked a bit shit actually but yes that was the rationale.


----------



## emanymton (Jan 15, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> I thought it looked a bit shit actually but yes that was the rationale.


I did think of changing my post to say 'someone thought it would look good on screen', but was too lazy. 

It's odd, this is a film, with aliens, faster than light travel, laser swords etc. None of which bothers me. But the total absurdity of the star killer weapon bugs the hell out me. Nothing about it makes any sense at all.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Jan 15, 2016)

Disney have issued a "For Your Consideration" promo CD of the John Williams soundtrack and it's available for download free.
Different track listing to the Original Soundtrack CD with 13 minutes of music not included on the OST.
Disney Releases ‘Force Awakens’ Oscar Promo Album with Extra 13 Minutes of Unreleased Music for download links.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 15, 2016)

Just seen it again in 2d. Looks better.

Also. Starkiller only targets one system at a time.


----------



## Cid (Jan 18, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


> its funny everyone i know who has seen it has been really thoughtful and respectful  about not spoiling it for anyone which i think is really nice.
> 
> One friend did put some spoilers on FB, but not so much in a ner ner way but generally to discuss , so i posted ' i really hope this isnt spoiling it for anyone' to which he then put up a spoiler alert  on the posts, but im still not sure i want to interact with him that much in the future, as i do kinda think he did it on purpose.
> 
> If i hadnt seen it beofre his posts i dont think we would be mates anymore lol



I only got around to seeing it yesterday and didn't know Han was going to die, which is the kind of thing you'd think would become general knowledge somehow or other in the last month. I think it made me realise I haven't done something unspoiled (either by discussion or just reading a wiki because I rarely go to the cinema etc) for ages.

Thought it was reasonable. Action heavy, but actually a bit less overblown than Abrams wars had the risk of being.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 19, 2016)

This cat looks more like Adam Driver than Adam Driver looks like Adam Driver


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 19, 2016)




----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 19, 2016)

with them ears it looks like a mogwai


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 19, 2016)

Kylo ren  was  a lot better the  second time round.  I felt  more for the character.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 19, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Kylo ren  was  a lot better the  second time round.  I felt  more for the character.


you felt his presence


----------



## ska invita (Jan 19, 2016)




----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 19, 2016)

This is great, and being kept on file for those times when it's applicable to oh so many other things:


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 20, 2016)

if looks could kill they probably will in games without frontiers, war without tears


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 20, 2016)

She's totes force choking him with her mind.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 20, 2016)

emanymton said:


> It's odd, this is a film, with aliens, faster than light travel, laser swords etc. None of which bothers me. But the total absurdity of the star killer weapon bugs the hell out me. Nothing about it makes any sense at all.



How can you see it firing from everywhere in the galaxy at once? Unless Maz Kanata's planet was in the same solar system as the one that got blown up, Finn wouldn't have seen the explosion until hundreds of years after it happened.

Also, how can you fit the mass of an entire star into a planet (a planet which is already made of stuff) without gravity tearing it to pieces? Ok so they had a thermal oscillator to deal with the excess energy, but you can't oscillate your way around gravity.


----------



## scifisam (Jan 20, 2016)

Any female character who's good at stuff gets called a Mary Sue these days. Male characters can be as brilliant as they like, of course.



SpookyFrank said:


> How can you see it firing from everywhere in the galaxy at once? Unless Maz Kanata's planet was in the same solar system as the one that got blown up, Finn wouldn't have seen the explosion until hundreds of years after it happened.
> 
> Also, how can you fit the mass of an entire star into a planet (a planet which is already made of stuff) without gravity tearing it to pieces? Ok so they had a thermal oscillator to deal with the excess energy, but you can't oscillate your way around gravity.



You can't. It's not science fiction, it's fantasy.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 20, 2016)

scifisam said:


> Any female character who's good at stuff gets called a Mary Sue these days. Male characters can be as brilliant as they like, of course.
> 
> 
> 
> You can't. It's not science fiction, it's fantasy.


Learnt something new today. Never heard the phrase Mary Sue. 

Luke is a Mary Sue too. 

He was ridiculously strong in the force and I guess she is too. Go figure.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 20, 2016)

its an overused american literary term that rarely holds much truth. Try Rentons internal dialouge in Trainspotting and Irvine Welsh himself. Now thats a classic mary sue. Authorial voice blurs with character voice and authors own real world patter has strong similarities. If you are going to use it to just mean 'character does something the writer would/would like to for him/herself irl' it dilutes to frankly meaningles and deserves to be as reviled as calling intertextual references 'Easter eggs'

lit crit of the blogosphere kind


----------



## Cid (Jan 20, 2016)

Gromit said:


> Learnt something new today. Never heard the phrase Mary Sue.
> 
> Luke is a Mary Sue too.
> 
> He was ridiculously strong in the force and I guess she is too. Go figure.



The point being that he is not labelled a Mary Sue but she is, because she's a woman. It tells you more about the labeller than the labelled...


----------



## Gromit (Jan 20, 2016)

Cid said:


> The point being that he is not labelled a Mary Sue but she is, because she's a woman. It tells you more about the labeller than the labelled...


Tells me they know fuck all about Star Wars. 
Force users can bullseye womp rats... And they ain't much bigger than 2m. Fact.


----------



## captainmission (Jan 21, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> How can you see it firing from everywhere in the galaxy at once? Unless Maz Kanata's planet was in the same solar system as the one that got blown up, Finn wouldn't have seen the explosion until hundreds of years after it happened.
> 
> Also, how can you fit the mass of an entire star into a planet (a planet which is already made of stuff) without gravity tearing it to pieces? Ok so they had a thermal oscillator to deal with the excess energy, but you can't oscillate your way around gravity.



So your question is how does a beam of energy travelling faster than the speed of light emitt energy that travels faster than the speed of light?

As for the gravity, artificial gravity technology is all over the place, and the fact everyone doesn't turn into meaty jam when ever they jump to light speed means they've mastered inertial negation.

Star killer base is no more or less daft than the death star or x wings or hyperspace. It's just badly explained in story terms, no need to confuse the two.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 21, 2016)

this is far better than the usual crap so I'll put it here. Really well done for a short:


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 21, 2016)

souljacker said:


> That says Han is in the next episode! Presumably as a ghost but maybe he survived?



How do you survive being stabbed by a lightsabre, falling hundreds of feet and then being blown up?


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 21, 2016)

krtek a houby said:


> How do you survive being stabbed by a lightsabre, falling hundreds of feet and then being blown up?


The dark side of the force?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 21, 2016)

Santino said:


> I'll always remember reaching the final boss battle in _The Phantom Menace_, and then just Force-pushing Darth Maul down a bottomless pit instead of fighting him with a lightsaber.


by that point Lucas Arts games had succumbed to the Darcade side


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 21, 2016)

So release for the next one has been put back to December, because they did so well in that slot for TFA. 

Several sources have said there are some rewrites in process too, because they were unaware of how popular and well-received certain characters would be.

The obvious one in this regard is Poe, since he was meant to die in TFA. He hit such a chord with people that they need to give him something to do now.

There were also meant to be two new female characters with quite large roles, but they are being scaled back so as to give more focus on our new TFA trio. I think the female resistance pilot is going to have her role expanded a bit.

Why on earth they thought people wouldn't see this trilogy as being about the trio is beyond me.

Info has been leaked that they very specifically pulled back on ordering Rey merch and beefing up orders of Kylo merch because they thought he'd be the one everyone liked. Because who likes girls, amirite? Yeah, Kylo's great, but come one, the kick-ass awesome girl or the whiny emo boy? It's like they live on another planet.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 21, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> So release for the next one has been put back to December, because they did so well in that slot for TFA.
> 
> Several sources have said there are some rewrites in process too, because they were unaware of how popular and well-received certain characters would be.
> 
> ...


I always wanted the bad guy toys when I was a kid and so does my son. Lots of similar anecdotes so that might have been their thinking.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Jan 21, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Info has been leaked that they very specifically pulled back on ordering Rey merch and beefing up orders of Kylo merch because they thought he'd be the one everyone liked. Because who likes girls, amirite? Yeah, Kylo's great, but come one, the kick-ass awesome girl or the whiny emo boy? It's like they live on another planet.


They possibly thought Ren would be this trilogy's Vader, who was arguably the most iconic figure from the OT.

I mean, they were obviously _incredibly_ wrong, but that might have been their thinking.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 21, 2016)

Wouldn't their 'thinking' be based on audience tests and all that stuff they do prior to release?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 21, 2016)

Mumbles274 said:


> Wouldn't their 'thinking' be based on audience tests and all that stuff they do prior to release?



If it was they need to pick better focus group participants. Because it didn't turn out like that at all.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 21, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> If it was they need to pick better focus group participants. Because it didn't turn out like that at all.


Agreed. Thing is they do show films to small audiences and base things on that though? Usually plot stuff from what I've read about other films but I guess merch stuff too?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 21, 2016)

If anything, if she'd had more screen time, Phasma is who I would have pegged for the classic bad-guy-everyone-wants-the-toy-of character. 

The reason Vader was so popular was a) you never saw his face; b) he was always monolithic in his evilness. Kylo Ren is shown in moments of weakness, we see his face a lot (not that that's necessarily a bad thing, just that facelessness always adds more menace). He's very much a human character, and Vader very much wasn't. Vader was bad ass. They're not alike at all.

Phasma, on the other hand, remains masked the whole time, has the most awesome shiny and chrome armour, is tall and imposing, and mysterious enough so as to create some kind of interest. Of course, she had barely any screen time, so it was never going to happen. I expect that to change in the next film (and Finn will eventually kill her, probably in the last of the trilogy).

Anyway, yes everyone wanted Vader figures, but they also wanted Skywalker and Han Solo figures. And they were produced and sold. Whereas Rey has been mysteriously utterly and completely absent from a large proportion of merchandise. And Rey is THE main character.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 21, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> If anything, if she'd had more screen time, Phasma is who I would have pegged for the classic bad-guy-everyone-wants-the-toy-of character.
> 
> The reason Vader was so popular was a) you never saw his face; b) he was always monolithic in his evilness. Kylo Ren is shown in moments of weakness, we see his face a lot (not that that's necessarily a bad thing, just that facelessness always adds more menace). He's very much a human character, and Vader very much wasn't. Vader was bad ass. They're not alike at all.
> 
> ...


I bought the Phasma xbox controller for two reasons. 1) it was by far the cheapest, 2) it was by far the best looking. Hopefully it was cheap because her role was disappointingly small.


----------



## souljacker (Jan 21, 2016)

If Kylo Ren hadn't taken off his mask, and revealed himself to be such a massive tool, then he would have been an amazing character.

And Phasma was shit too. Like a comedy baddie, ordering people about then getting owned by Han and whatsisface. If she was proper hard she would have taken a laser bolt in the face rather than switch off those shields.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 21, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Phasma, on the other hand, remains masked the whole time, has the most awesome shiny and chrome



witness


----------



## scifisam (Jan 21, 2016)

souljacker said:


> If Kylo Ren hadn't taken off his mask, and revealed himself to be such a massive tool, then he would have been an amazing character.
> 
> And Phasma was shit too. Like a comedy baddie, ordering people about then getting owned by Han and whatsisface. If she was proper hard she would have taken a laser bolt in the face rather than switch off those shields.


It was weird the way they kind of dramatically built up the reveal and then... da da! A nerd! He was a fine actor but looked more like the chess club secretary than a Sith lord. Not having that dramatic reveal would have helped.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 21, 2016)

Poe is cheesy and shit, the writers need to toughen up and stop pandering to market feedback nonsense. Leonardo didn't throw in more cats on the Sistine chapel just because the congregation liked them. Poe should've died in that crash. I hope he falls off a precarious gang plank into an abyss asap


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 22, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> So release for the next one has been put back to December, because they did so well in that slot for TFA.



December 2017, mind. But there's Rogue One in December 2016, so if they keep that pattern up that's six years worth of dominating at Christmas (unless there's some hidden massive demand for Avatar sequels). Disney owns the Marvel stuff too (and Pixar), so that's all the other big weekends taken care off.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Poe is cheesy and shit, the writers need to toughen up and stop pandering to market feedback nonsense. Leonardo didn't throw in more cats on the Sistine chapel just because the congregation liked them. Poe should've died in that crash. I hope he falls off a precarious gang plank into an abyss asap



They didn't keep Poe alive because of the audience... since, you know, it wasn't out before it was made. They liked him when they saw him acting, they liked what he did in the role, so they wrote more of it. Stories evolve as they're made.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 22, 2016)

I liked Poe.  There, I said it.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 22, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> It's like they live on another planet.




My daughter asked for her hair to be done "like Rey's" for school yesterday


----------



## The Octagon (Jan 22, 2016)

ska invita said:


> Poe is cheesy and shit, the writers need to toughen up and stop pandering to market feedback nonsense. Leonardo didn't throw in more cats on the Sistine chapel just because the congregation liked them. Poe should've died in that crash. I hope he falls off a precarious gang plank into an abyss asap



No way, Poe (Oscar Isaac really) is the best chance the new trilogy has of avoiding the over-worthiness that in part doomed the prequels.

I thought his brief appearances were the best display of acting, outside of Boyega and Driver, he was the one driving the plot and taking charge at the beginning of the film.

Poe


----------



## ska invita (Jan 22, 2016)

The Octagon said:


> No way, Poe (Oscar Isaac really) is the best chance the new trilogy has of avoiding the over-worthiness that in part doomed the prequels.
> 
> I thought his brief appearances were the best display of acting, outside of Boyega and Driver, he was the one driving the plot and taking charge at the beginning of the film.
> 
> Poe


He reminded me of a cheesy 70s buck Rogers... The bit where he resisted torture was bullshit too.... I'd like to have seen him scarred permanently, both physically and mentally by that go in the chair.


----------



## The Octagon (Jan 22, 2016)

He didn't manage to resist the torture, that was kind of the point (to set up Ren's skill at this for the later scene with Rey). He's the Resistance's version of Phasma, except he did his duty instead of caving. 

Plus charismatic as hell, his first line to Ren was good.

Maybe I just have a man crush on Oscar Isaac, but I maintain he'll come good, he's the most likely Han Solo replacement anyway.

I'm actually looking forward to see how the relationships between the main 3 develop.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 22, 2016)

The Octagon said:


> He didn't manage to resist the torture, that was kind of the point (to set up Ren's skill at this for the later scene with Rey). He's the Resistance's version of Phasma, except he did his duty instead of caving.
> 
> Plus charismatic as hell, his first line to Ren was good.
> 
> ...


Pretty sure that during the torture he smiled and told a joke. When a sadist from the dark side does some torture on you I want to see a face at the very least!


----------



## kabbes (Jan 22, 2016)

He told a joke beforehand, full of bluster and bravado.  He gave up the information in the end though.


----------



## Cid (Jan 22, 2016)

scifisam said:


> It was weird the way they kind of dramatically built up the reveal and then... da da! A nerd! He was a fine actor but looked more like the chess club secretary than a Sith lord. Not having that dramatic reveal would have helped.



That was the point though wasn't it? What are you behind that mask? Oh... just a nerd. Not some monstrous Vader. But perhaps all the more disturbing because I can't dehumanise you. Well, that was the intent, not saying it worked 100%.

I actually quite like Hux and Kylo (Phasma cool but totally sidelined by underuse and the shield bit) - a new generation of commanders in charge more by force of ideology than experience. Hux especially, a sort of Emperorjugend given time to grow into a petty tyrant, militarily somewhat incompetent but unwilling to accept his own failings. I'm not sure that's what they intended, but ~I liked it anyway... 

But yeah, empathising with Kylo? a sort of petulant leader of a quasi-fascist knightly order isn't a very appealing figure. Reading around a bit I wonder how extensively market research can be conducted. I mean you can't sit kids in front of a screener a year before it comes out - spoilers would be inevitable. A trailer plus looking at concept action figures maybe? The toy industry seems to be rampantly sexist on all fronts.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

I like Kylo Ren a lot, despite my earlier comparisons to Vader (which were made just to explain why I think he doesn't have the draw Vader did). I love love love that his sabre beam crackles the way it does - perfectly illustrating his pent up anger and frustration and his inability to master and control it.

I do wish we'd had just a little bit more about why exactly he is the way he is. I know that will come later (at least I hope it does, otherwise what's the point of him?), but just the fact that they allowed us to see his clear vulnerability and frustration in the first film wasn't put across very well, or rather could have been done a little bit better, because at the moment we really do have no reasoning behind it other than 'whiny entitled emo kid rebelled against his parents because whiny entitled emo kid' and even then we're extrapolating that much. The best guess I've got is that the sheer weight of his parent's history as heroes of the goddamn galaxy was too much for him to bear, feeling like he'd never live up to that, starting to resent them, starting to idolise Vader instead, and there we go. Your typical stupid kid should be in therapy instead plot line. 

Obviously being one of the only force users around will have had an impact. I'm still unsure of the timeline there. Presumably he's meant to be the student Luke was teaching who turned bad, causing Luke to fuck off. But if Luke is Rey's dad, how old was Ben at that point? He must have been young, because Kylo Ren isn't that much older than Rey, and Rey was just 5 I think when she was left. Ben couldn't have been much older than 10 or so. I mean, I know Adam Driver is older, Kylo Ren isn't portrayed as being in his mid 30s or whatever, is he? (Driver is 9 years older than Ridley, not that that matters much.) Maybe he is, idk.

I like what you say Cid about Hux et al. You're absolutely right about the age thing, it's a strong theme throughout the whole film. And you've got Snoke, who is so distant and mysterious so as to be a menace but not really, since we know nothing about him except he looks fookin' ancient and could be any number of previously known people (totes Plageuis, in league with Jar Jar), but you've got these, essentially, kids in charge of what remains of the empire in new form, and they have grown out of the destruction and ruin of everything Vader and Palpatine built up, and seemingly have no real link to that history other than myth and legend, which is never the truth. It's actually a really good premise, you could read a lot into it about generations and history. The First Order come across as being just a little bit shit compared to Vader's Empire, and that's because they're an imitation. They're what the EDL (with some power) is to the Nazis  (okay, maybe not, but you get the general point.) The Empire was always quick to anger, but the First Order seems even more so, with a dollop of impotent frustration added to the mix. 

I love how they set up Kylo Ren as being the Vader replacement, but then it's so striking the first time he's meeting with Snoke and Hux walks in and is clearly effectively the boss of Ren. They're two separate arms of the same organisation, and they're not in step with each other. It illustrated very well how little power Ren has, and that's part of why he is the way he is, that lack of power is probably what drove him away from his parents and towards the myth of Vader, and yet he still has that lack of power (which Snoke will exploit). That split between Hux and Ren will become important as time goes on. 

In other news, it pleases me massively that this is Hux:







You're not scary at all!!!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 22, 2016)

I spent the whole afternoon hearing a 12 year old boy in the room above me playing the Imperial March badly on the tuba.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 22, 2016)

Nice analysis, Vintage Paw -  I read eferences to radicalised Western kids joining ISIS in the Ben/Kylo Ren potential character arc


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 22, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Obviously being one of the only force users around will have had an impact. I'm still unsure of the timeline there. Presumably he's meant to be the student Luke was teaching who turned bad, causing Luke to fuck off. But if Luke is Rey's dad, how old was Ben at that point? He must have been young, because Kylo Ren isn't that much older than Rey, and Rey was just 5 I think when she was left. Ben couldn't have been much older than 10 or so. I mean, I know Adam Driver is older, Kylo Ren isn't portrayed as being in his mid 30s or whatever, is he? (Driver is 9 years older than Ridley, not that that matters much.) Maybe he is, idk.


Jedi do begin to train young, especially the most gifted. Remember the youngling were all primary school age before anakin kilt them all in the prequels. Which would presume either: bad reaction to traumatic event that sent him down the dark side or Snokes got his giant hologramatic claws in early via a dark side proxy character, a viper in the nest. Or some plot device of that sort. Maybe. Anakins fall from good was marked by specific events and took some time. Perhaps it was different for damien ren?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

Is it common for force users to not know they have the force until they're a bit older? We only have a small pool of past characters to go on, and evidence seems mixed. 

The difference between Ren and Rey is interesting here (and between Rey and Luke). Ren presumably then knew he had the force early on, and wanted to grasp at its power, for it to make him great, and it turns out he's just not that naturally gifted with it (even though he's clearly powerful, but another source of frustration no doubt). Then we have Rey, who had no idea she could use it, had no ambition in life other than to wait for her parents, and when she finally discovers her power she's just very good at it off the bat, likely because she has no preconceptions or delusions of grandeur. 

Rey understands patience. Ren is frustrated when he doesn't get what he wants right now. 

Likewise, Luke had problems with the force because he wanted to rush off and be the goddamn hero but needed to be taught that patience. Whereas Rey has no such desires, no internal struggle with power or her own place in the world. 

It opens up a lot of interesting scope for the future, as to what the realisation of her being so powerful will do to her considering she's had no training yet. And will Luke's probable angst at failing Ben (which is how he sees it, I'm sure) make it difficult for him to mentor Rey (daddy issues notwithstanding)? Will she realise he's her dad? Will he tell her? Because he's got to know, right? If she does find out it's him, then the double whammy of daddy being out here all along and not bothering to come back for her when he could have, along with all this new-found power, might just be too much to bear. It seems obvious she's going to have her own struggle with the dark side at some point, she's got to really. Just how involved it'll be remains to be seen.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 22, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Is it common for force users to not know they have the force until they're a bit older? We only have a small pool of past characters to go on, and evidence seems mixed.


without a jedi training and with no knowledge of your own powers there seems to be a theme- ace pilot, crack shot, staff skills, ninja scavenging acrobatics. The force manifesting in other ways.
Remember when yoda is to teach Luke at first he protests to kenobis force ghost that luke is too old for training and also a bit of a dick.


----------



## The Octagon (Jan 22, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Likewise, Luke had problems with the force because he wanted to rush off and be the goddamn hero but needed to be taught that patience. Whereas Rey has no such desires, no internal struggle with power or her own place in the world.



I'd agree with most of that except this, Rey is clearly unsure of her place in the world, she was abandoned by parent(s) she can't remember and craves adventure, definitely not fully formed as a character and plenty of scope for her to turn super jedi / sith / straddling the two sides, all with a healthy dose of love triangle thrown in.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

The Octagon said:


> I'd agree with most of that except this, Rey is clearly unsure of her place in the world, she was abandoned by parent(s) she can't remember and craves adventure, definitely not fully formed as a character and plenty of scope for her to turn super jedi / sith / straddling the two sides, all with a healthy dose of love triangle thrown in.



Most of the film was spent with her decidedly _not_ craving adventure. She wanted to just get back to her planet and wait for her parents. By the end she has the realisation that she can't just sit waiting for life to happen to her. Which is different to Luke and his gung-ho attitude. I agree she's certainly unsure of her place in the world, but if anything that's a new revelation, because up until now she's not given it much thought, she's just existed, day to day, waiting.

There is lots of scope for her being uncertain, unstable, etc., but that hasn't happened yet. In this first film she's contrasted almost completely against Ren (who had his parents right there and didn't want them), and their parallel journeys will surely continue to be a centre point of focus to drive the next 2 films and the overarching narrative.


----------



## Cid (Jan 22, 2016)

Luke is a fantasy er... archetype? Farm boy who craves adventure, discovers he has powers, clears out the (womp) rats for his first quest then goes on to become ubermensch... Even turns out his parents are nobility/elite. Rey has the potential to be a more interesting character. Or possibly it turns out that she's on a quest to have a family (please no).


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 22, 2016)

The real kicker will be if her and Ren end up together. I mean, cousins and all that, but fantasy doesn't care about that sort of thing. Bringing the light and the dark side together, awww.

*voms everywhere*


----------



## 8den (Jan 22, 2016)

kabbes said:


> I liked Poe.  There, I said it.



You should check out David Simons "show me a hero"


----------



## scifisam (Jan 23, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> In this first film she's contrasted almost completely against Ren (who had his parents right there and didn't want them), and their parallel journeys will surely continue to be a centre point of focus to drive the next 2 films and the overarching narrative.



The only difference between their names is Rey ends in y and Ren in n. Y and N, Yes and no, positive and negative, dark and light.  I could see Lucas coming up with something that simplistic and he did have input into the film.


----------



## Cid (Jan 23, 2016)

Incidentally Vintage Paw wookiepedia has Ren as born soon after Endor and Rey asbout 11 years later (Ren's age ref from a tweet, Rey's from The force awakens visual dictionary), so their ages are roughly consistent with real life ages.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 23, 2016)

Cid said:


> Incidentally Vintage Paw wookiepedia has Ren as born soon after Endor and Rey asbout 11 years later (Ren's age ref from a tweet, Rey's from The force awakens visual dictionary), so their ages are roughly consistent with real life ages.



I did not know that. I feel more comfortable about the timeline thing now


----------



## Cid (Jan 23, 2016)

On the significance of names...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 24, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> I like Kylo Ren a lot, despite my earlier comparisons to Vader (which were made just to explain why I think he doesn't have the draw Vader did). I love love love that his sabre beam crackles the way it does - perfectly illustrating his pent up anger and frustration and his inability to master and control it.



My mate's first reaction on leaving the cinema: 'did anyone else think it was a bit off key that he was attacking a black guy with a burning cross?'


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 24, 2016)

I... never made that connection


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 24, 2016)

omg he's literally white male privilege lol


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 24, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> omg he's literally white male privilege lol


----------



## souljacker (Jan 24, 2016)

Cid said:


> Incidentally Vintage Paw wookiepedia has Ren as born soon after Endor



About 9 months later? I think we can see how Han and Leia celebrated that afternoon of destruction. Dirty buggers.


----------



## Cid (Jan 24, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> omg he's literally white male privilege lol



"Evry1 shld check out @JedimasterRen223's post on gamrgate, nails it on white male privilage."

That's why his sabre skills are shit - too much time at the keyboard.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 25, 2016)

captainmission said:


> Not just slash fic, they're already on to body pillows



I was just doing some moderating on a dakimakura facebook page  and  i have stumbled upon the first wave on  fan made  star wars  dakimakura.

A captain Phasma dakimakura



Spoiler: Look upon my works ye mighty and despair






NSFW


----------



## 8ball (Jan 25, 2016)

Cid said:


> But yeah, empathising with Kylo?



Kylo is basically a Young Conservative.


----------



## captainmission (Jan 26, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I was just doing some moderating on a dakimakura facebook page  and  i have stumbled upon the first wave on  fan made  star wars  dakimakura.
> 
> A captain Phasma dakimakura
> 
> ...



Goodness, if only the artist has some way to tell what Gwendoline Christie actually looked like. 

I can't imagine Phasma allowing her imperial issue stockings to be in such a shody state of disrepair either.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 26, 2016)

Her hands are far too small.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 26, 2016)

needs more musculature for the back. Brienne of tarth has broad shoulders and uses a broadsword. Thats several feet of heavy steel used every day. Bound to tone ones muscles


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 26, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> I love how they set up Kylo Ren as being the Vader replacement, but then it's so striking the first time he's meeting with Snoke and Hux walks in and is clearly effectively the boss of Ren. They're two separate arms of the same organisation, and they're not in step with each other. It illustrated very well how little power Ren has, and that's part of why he is the way he is, that lack of power is probably what drove him away from his parents and towards the myth of Vader, and yet he still has that lack of power (which Snoke will exploit). That split between Hux and Ren will become important as time goes on.



It reminds me of the set up between Vader and Grand Moff Tarkin. GMT was Vader's boss, was he not?



Vintage Paw said:


> The real kicker will be if her and Ren end up together. I mean, cousins and all that, but fantasy doesn't care about that sort of thing.



And its not like there hasn't been precedents, kinda


----------



## Reno (Jan 26, 2016)

^ That's what I call family entertainment. The 80s were the golden age of the incest blockbuster. See also Back to the Future.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 26, 2016)

It's all good clean fun.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 26, 2016)

Until someone ends up in a garbage compactor.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 26, 2016)

Until someone loses a hand


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 26, 2016)

Until someone says "I've got a bad feeling about this"


----------



## xenon (Jan 26, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> needs more musculature for the back. Brienne of tarth has broad shoulders and uses a broadsword. Thats several feet of heavy steel used every day. Bound to tone ones muscles



 Boring fact. Broadswords aren't actually that heavy.  Ceremonial swihander (2 handed) greatswoeds  could be seven KG.  but they weren't generally used in battle.  Course strength endurance and general fitness  definitely helps.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 26, 2016)

xenon said:


> Boring fact. Broadswords aren't actually that heavy.  Ceremonial swihander (2 handed) greatswoeds  could be seven KG.  but they weren't generally used in battle.  Course strength endurance and general fitness  definitely helps.


weighty armour then. That just does not look like a knightly back


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 26, 2016)

xenon said:


> Boring fact. Broadswords aren't actually that heavy.  Ceremonial swihander (2 handed) greatswoeds  could be seven KG.  but they weren't generally used in battle.  Course strength endurance and general fitness  definitely helps.


aka hand-and-a-half or bastard sword. Best sword name ever


----------



## xenon (Jan 26, 2016)

Some great discovery channel videos on YouTube about mediaeval fighting techniques. I reckon the Danish bearded axe would've been my choice.  Go the full berserker. Swords to expensive  for the average soldier course.


----------



## xenon (Jan 26, 2016)

Oh yeah re warrior women in fantasy, may go to this.  
Fight Like A Girl - Join Our Launch Party!


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 26, 2016)

xenon said:


> Oh yeah re warrior women in fantasy, may go to this.
> Fight Like A Girl - Join Our Launch Party!



That sounds fucking excellent. If you go, please provide a full report


----------



## magneze (Jan 27, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> I was just doing some moderating on a dakimakura facebook page  and  i have stumbled upon the first wave on  fan made  star wars  dakimakura.
> 
> A captain Phasma dakimakura
> 
> ...


Probably shouldn't have clicked on that at work.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 27, 2016)

sorry!


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 29, 2016)

Darth Vader to get considerably more brutal in Rogue One

The pictures of the costumes are shit.


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 29, 2016)

Not one Rey toy on the main display with the Rogue one costumes. There is a Rey costume but it is the desert clothes from the opening with face covered.


----------



## The Octagon (Jan 29, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> Not one Rey toy on the main display with the Rogue one costumes. There is a Rey costume but it is the desert clothes from the opening with face covered.



It's set before A New Hope, why would there be Rey merchandise included in the display?


----------



## CNT36 (Jan 29, 2016)

The Octagon said:


> It's set before A New Hope, why would there be Rey merchandise included in the display?


Its a Star Wars display in the entrance hall. There are Finn toys, Vader toys and Lego sets. It is not a definitive collection but it is the most visually striking Star Wars display inside near the main entrance. Outside there is a class display of waist high stormtroopers standing in ranks. The shows WiFi is slow. I'll try and upload some photos drekly.


----------



## The Octagon (Jan 29, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> Its a Star Wars display in the entrance hall. There are Finn toys, Vader toys and Lego sets. It is not a definitive collection but it is the most visually striking Star Wars display inside near the main entrance. Outside there is a class display of waist high stormtroopers standing in ranks. The shows WiFi is slow. I'll try and upload some photos drekly.



Ah, I misunderstood, thought it was a solely Rogue One display.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 30, 2016)

On the subject of the fucking laser weapon thing:

 

HTH


----------



## kabbes (Jan 30, 2016)

I looked up who Grant Morrison is.  A comic book writer, apparently.  Not sure I'm taking his as the last word on narrative.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 30, 2016)

Because?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 30, 2016)

Do I smell comic book snobbery?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 30, 2016)

Morrison done Invisibles. Everyone should read that. There was a point where I suddenly realised 'stop looking at the faces and speech bubbles only, the visuals are telling something subtle' Course thats the skill of the artist rather than the writerbut the way you got recurring themes and little zings was pure collaborative genius. Second fave vertigo title after Preacher


----------



## Santino (Jan 30, 2016)

Grant Morrison wrote the story where Bruce Wayne has to time travel from prehistory to the present in order reclaim his identity as Batman.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 30, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> Because?


Because I'm not going to ignore a wealth of cultural value on verisimilitude because the guy who writes Batman doesn't like it.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 30, 2016)

lol


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 30, 2016)

kabbes said:


> Because I'm not going to ignore a wealth of cultural value on verisimilitude because the guy who writes Batman doesn't like it.


You wanker.


----------



## Santino (Jan 30, 2016)

Grant Morrison wrote the story when Batman died for about the fourth time AND THEN IT TURNS OUT HE DIDN'T DIE AT ALL.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 30, 2016)

Who gives a shit? It's a story. You can make him into anything you want. I'd like to see a full on Cobra style fascist Batman


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 31, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Who gives a shit? It's a story. You can make him into anything you want. I'd like to see a full on Cobra style fascist Batman


hard to outfash miller on this front, his next batman work is 'the master race'


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Who gives a shit? It's a story. You can make him into anything you want. I'd like to see a full on Cobra style fascist Batman


What's that got to do with whether this guys view on axiopisty trumps all others?

Who's the prescriptivist here?  The one telling others they mustn't care about internal consistency or the one saying a quote from one guy is neither here nor there?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 31, 2016)

yeah but its his work on comics which is why you dismissed him, that was your in. Fair enough if you think he talketh great shite but say so on its own merits eh


santino has made me look up prehistoric Batman:







the only good thing here is that they kept the implausibly chiseled square chin.


----------



## Santino (Jan 31, 2016)

I tried reading the synopsis of another of his Batman stories but I stopped when it started talking about other planets being in danger.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> yeah but its his work on comics which is why you dismissed him, that was your in. Fair enough if you think he talketh great shite but say so on its own merits eh.


It's not about the comics per se.  It's about the fact that he has never written anything that transcends a very specific and narrow niche of genre fiction appealing to an incredibly specific and narrow niche of the population.  And this despite the fact that superhero fiction generally has become a dominant genre, so how come he has no notable credits to his name as a writer (_not_ an artist, note, so there is nothing inherently stopping him) other than to continue to work on that narrow niche?  But rather than considering that maybe he has something to learn from comments from his own damned audience about the need for believability in his universe, he instead decides he should deride, mock and swear at them.  So yes, I am dismissing his opinions on the matter as being some kind of final word on it.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 31, 2016)

Actually he also does screen writing and play writing

Grant Morrison - The Official Website - Work Outside Comics


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Actually he also does screen writing and play writing
> 
> Grant Morrison - The Official Website - Work Outside Comics


That link is not exactly enhancing the case that his should be the last word on what makes fiction great.  If the critically panned "Area 51 the movie" is amongst the first things you put on your CV, things aren't looking good. 

Note my use of the phrase "never written anything that transcended the..." as well.  I looked the guy up, I already knew he had written more than comics.  I also knew that he hadn't written anything worth mentioning outside comics.

Supergods sounds interesting, mind.  Not fiction, though.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 31, 2016)

Yeah but it does kinda let on your also not the best person to listen on this point as a 5 secong google points out that  what you said in the last post was bollocks


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Yeah but it does kinda let on your also not the best person to listen on this point as a 5 secong google points out that  what you said in the last post was bollocks


No it doesn't.  It does the opposite, you fool.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 31, 2016)

you claim he  has never  done anything but comic books.	a quick look online  points out that  he has indeed done other things.

now unless your saying  that  plays, films, TV and games  are all the  same thing  you were obviously wrong.

 if you are saying they all count as the same  you really doe  come across as pointlessly snobby.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> you claim he  has never  done anything but comic books.	a quick look online  points out that  he has indeed done other things.


My words are right there.  "It's not about the comics per se. It's about the fact that he has never written anything that transcends a very specific and narrow niche of genre fiction appealing to an incredibly specific and narrow niche of the population."

Where in that does it say that he has only written comic books?



> now unless your saying  that  plays, films, TV and games  are all the  same thing  you were obviously wrong.
> 
> if you are saying they all count as the same  you really doe  come across as pointlessly snobby.


So please tell me the thing that he has written that _does_ transcend a very specific and narrow niche of genre fiction appealing to to an incredibly specific and narrow niche of the population?  You linked to a page -- what do _you_ think that page proves about that statement?

And in particular, bearing in mind that the very _point_ of all this baloney is the claim that because Grant Morrison said something about why universe believability is unnecessary we should all just accept it, please tell me what track record he has that gives credence to this opinion above all others?  Because that's what I said in the first place -- I'm not taking his as the last word on the matter.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Jan 31, 2016)

kabbes said:


> My words are right there.  "It's not about the comics per se. It's about the fact that he has never written anything that transcends a very specific and narrow niche of genre fiction appealing to an incredibly specific and narrow niche of the population."
> 
> Where in that does it say that he has only written comic books?



The first statement implies that strongly. the phrases "never written anything that transcends a very specific and narrow niche of genre fiction"  and "an incredibly specific and narrow niche of the population" read as  "comic books"  and  "comic book readers".  

I googled  his name  to see if this was true.  

i found this 

Grant Morrison - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

which includes this  bit among others

"He has written two plays staged by Oxygen House at the Edinburgh Fringe.[87]_Red King Rising_ (1989) was about the (partly fictional) relationship between Lewis Carroll and Alice Liddell. _Depravity_ (1990) was about famed occultistAleister Crowley. The plays won between them a Fringe First Award, the Independent Theatre Award for 1989 and the Evening Standard Award for New Drama.[67] Both plays were included in his collection of prose, _Lovely Biscuits_ released in 1999.[88]"

This seems  to run counter to your claim  as  this seems  quite  different  from only doing "comic books"  for "comic book readers".

While   I'm fine  with you disagreeing  with the original statement   I do think your  being overly dismissive of his body of  work.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> The first statement implies that strongly.


Bullshit it does. 



> the phrases "never written anything that transcends a very specific and narrow niche of genre fiction"  and "an incredibly specific and narrow niche of the population" read as  "comic books"  and  "comic book readers".


No, they read as referring to the specific and narrow niche of genre fiction that comic books are part of.



> I googled  his name  to see if this was true.
> 
> i found this
> 
> ...


Fuck me, that is deperate.  Two plays written over 25 years ago and a 20 year old anthology of stuff?  Is that seriously supposed to demonstrate that he has transcended his narrow niche?  Is it somehow supposed to indicate we should take his advice as, and I quote myself again, "the last word" on this subject?  

I know you treat comic books as a religion, but even the most pious of religious evangelists would laugh at that as an argument.



> While   I'm fine  with you disagreeing  with the original statement   I do think your  being overly dismissive of his body of  work.


So you agree with me, you just don't like the fact that the statement hints that comic books aren't the be-all and end-all of fiction.  Great.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 31, 2016)

Will you guys please stop Fansplaining. 
This always happens when Starwaranists want to discuss issues you come in and derail them with irrelevant points like how Batman has it worse n stuff.


----------



## Santino (Jan 31, 2016)

Gromit said:


> Will you guys please stop Fansplaining.
> This always happens when Starwaranists want to discuss issues you come in and derail them with irrelevant points like how Batman has it worse n stuff.


Fuck off you boring cunt. You are boring.


----------



## Gromit (Jan 31, 2016)

Santino said:


> Fuck off you boring cunt. You are boring.


No you fuck off to a Batman thread. This is Star Wars you slaaaag.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Jan 31, 2016)

kabbes said:


> axiopisty



Not gonna lie, I had to look that up.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 31, 2016)

I reckon you're all getting aerated out of all proportion to a single post on one bloke's opinion. Mesen I've no clue who Grant Morrison is, and don't tell me, and I don't care for comics or graphic novels etc, but as it happens I agree with the statement generally. Must be terrible to watch works of fiction and fantasy and pick holes in them whenever you can. What's that you say? A cyclone carried a house off to a colourful magical land? Fuck that, physics says otherwise, not watching it


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Not gonna lie, I had to look that up.


Good word though, innit?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 31, 2016)

So we have a person who creates stories for a living (regardless of how those stories are perceived by some), and we have a person who doesn't. And the person who doesn't claims they know more about stories than the person who gets paid to create stories for a living. Because the person who doesn't doesn't like the stories the person who gets paid for it creates.

Got it.

This thread has really gone downhill.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> So we have a person who creates stories for a living (regardless of how those stories are perceived by some), and we have a person who doesn't. And the person who doesn't claims they know more about stories than the person who gets paid to create stories for a living. Because the person who doesn't doesn't like the stories the person who gets paid for it creates.


That's an interesting interpretation.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 31, 2016)

Everyone's allowed an opinion on anything. Shitbags, I'm no footballer but etc etc
and Grant Morrison does produce fiction for a living, whether or not it's "acceptable" or "narrow".


----------



## Gromit (Jan 31, 2016)

Arrigo Sacchi He was twice manager of A.C. Milan (1987–1991, 1996–1997), with great success. He won the Serie A title in his 1987–88 debut season and then dominated European football by winning back to back European Cups in 1989 and 1990. To this day, Milan are the last team that became European champions and successfully defended their title in the following season. From 1991 to 1996 he was head coach of Italy and led them to the World Cup Final in 1994, only to lose to Brazil in a penalty shoot-out. Sacchi is regarded as one of the greatest managers of all time[1] and his Milan side (1987–1991) is widely regarded to be one of the greatest club sides to ever play the game.

Sacchi was never a professional football player (he had played as a part-time footballer in amateur clubs for some years) and for many years worked as a shoe salesman. This led to his famous quote to the ones that questioned his qualifications: "I never realized that in order to become a jockey you have to have been a horse first".


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 31, 2016)

Why do you still walk the earth?


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

S☼I said:


> Everyone's allowed an opinion on anything. Shitbags, I'm no footballer but etc etc
> and Grant Morrison does produce fiction for a living, whether or not it's "acceptable" or "narrow".


Where have I remotely suggested that he shouldn't have an opinion on it, or even whether that opinion is or is not valid?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 31, 2016)

You've _implied_ all sorts tbh kabbes

But hey ho, life's too short, I've no dog in this race


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 31, 2016)

don't forget, it's all pretend


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

S☼I said:


> You've _implied_ all sorts tbh kabbes
> 
> But hey ho, life's too short, I've no dog in this race


I was reacting to VP posting up a quote from a D-list writer (and yes, sorry, that's what he is) as if it ended all debate about whether or not things should be internally consistent.  I particularly reacted because I found the quote specifically to be rude, dismissive and unnecessarily confrontational.  Arguing by recourse to authority is never a great approach and doing it via out-of-context unsourced quotes is particularly silly; if you are going to take that approach, you should at least make your authority impeccable.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 31, 2016)

Zenith. Still rocks.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 31, 2016)

D-list. OH dear. He's widely regarded as one of the best writers in the comic book world, a stan lee for the modern age. So you've decided yourself he's d-list without reading a single thing he's done. Guess all those award givers should have asked you first? Basically its back to ner ner I don't like comics therefor his opinion is worthless


----------



## Santino (Jan 31, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> D-list. OH dear. He's widely regarded as one of the best writers in the comic book world, a stan lee for the modern age. So you've decided yourself he's d-list without reading a single thing he's done. Guess all those award givers should have asked you first? Basically its back to ner ner I don't like comics therefor his opinion is worthless


Batman travelling through time. Batman travelling through time. Batman travelling through time.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 31, 2016)

all because of the darkseid


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> D-list. OH dear. He's widely regarded as one of the best writers in the comic book world, a stan lee for the modern age. So you've decided yourself he's d-list without reading a single thing he's done. Guess all those award givers should have asked you first? Basically its back to ner ner I don't like comics therefor his opinion is worthless


Wow, do you ever not get the point on this one.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jan 31, 2016)

I get what the point became, and I have some sympathy although I think some genres allow more liberties with internal consistency than others- DC's shared univers re-invents constantly. But initially it was a sneer at the quote and comic books because you hadn't heard of the writer. One of the top selling, critically acclaimed etc writers you still call d-list on the previous page lol. my last word on the matter, back to the star wars


----------



## Idris2002 (Jan 31, 2016)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> Leia was badly served by this film.  They gave her the title "General" and then proceeded to give her every "little woman waiting for her man" stereotype.  Where's bad-ass Leia?


I thought she was presented as being chief of the general staff, and clearly in charge?


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 31, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> I thought she was presented as being chief of the general staff, and clearly in charge?



I thought this too. I thought it portrayed her well. She loves Han, but they went their separate ways mutually it seems. Their reunion didn't appear like something she was all weak and soppy over. She stayed where she was to command the entire resistance army, while he went off being the solitary hero/dick he always is  She showed emotion over his death, but she didn't go to pieces like some usual ridiculous hysterical woman trope, she continued to command the forces. She was a positive representation of a woman, imo. Being a 'strong' woman doesn't mean not feeling emotion, doesn't mean having to be the one holding the gun, doesn't mean not being in love.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jan 31, 2016)

And I found her embracing Rey near the end very moving. Another aspect of the generational theme running throughout.


----------



## kabbes (Jan 31, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I get what the point became, and I have some sympathy although I think some genres allow more liberties with internal consistency than others- DC's shared univers re-invents constantly. But initially it was a sneer at the quote and comic books because you hadn't heard of the writer. One of the top selling, critically acclaimed etc writers you still call d-list on the previous page lol. my last word on the matter, back to the star wars


Just because you insist what it was initially, doesn't mean you're right, you know.  I always say what I mean, and if it needs clarifying, I clarify it.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (Feb 1, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> I thought this too. I thought it portrayed her well. She loves Han, but they went their separate ways mutually it seems. Their reunion didn't appear like something she was all weak and soppy over. She stayed where she was to command the entire resistance army, while he went off being the solitary hero/dick he always is  She showed emotion over his death, but she didn't go to pieces like some usual ridiculous hysterical woman trope, she continued to command the forces. She was a positive representation of a woman, imo. Being a 'strong' woman doesn't mean not feeling emotion, doesn't mean having to be the one holding the gun, doesn't mean not being in love.


Yes, to add to your point (as I'm sure you're well aware of this) there's a massive problem with how "strong" women are portrayed in film, which is basically as a ball breaking action girl rather than a rounded human character.

And tbf once you've made it to general you aren't the one running all over the place. You're the one at command, waiting to see how your careful plans are working out. Which is exactly what she did.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 1, 2016)

The latest incarnation of Lara Croft got some praise for this (as well as a bit of critique for the way it was initially handled), because she's in therapy. She's strong, one of the most iconic female heroes in video games, and she's had an extra dimension added to her by giving her this struggle over her emotional life.

While I welcome that, I'd like to see it applied to western* male heroes as well, because having their emotional lives utterly shut off is harmful but also boring as fuck.

*I say western because male heroes in jrpgs for example have emotions like no other. Usually angst, granted, but still


----------



## Cid (Feb 1, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> While I welcome that, I'd like to see it applied to western* male heroes as well, because having their emotional lives utterly shut off is harmful but also boring as fuck.
> 
> *I say western because male heroes in jrpgs for example have emotions like no other. Usually angst, granted, but still



Spec Ops: The Line was quite good for that... Solid FPS in which you try to extract a team from a post-catastrophe Dubai. Sort of another take on the Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse now tale, with Jacob's laddery elements. Your hard-ass marine character is er... definitely not trouble free. It does sometimes feel like it's overdoing it/somewhat obvious, but I think that has to be viewed in the context of it providing a contrast to COD and the like.


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 2, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> D-list. OH dear. He's widely regarded as one of the best writers in the comic book world, a stan lee for the modern age. So you've decided yourself he's d-list without reading a single thing he's done. Guess all those award givers should have asked you first? Basically its back to ner ner I don't like comics therefor his opinion is worthless



Btw, thanks to this tangent; I've started re-reading GMs stuff in X-Men. It's outstanding.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 2, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> I thought this too. I thought it portrayed her well. She loves Han, but they went their separate ways mutually it seems. Their reunion didn't appear like something she was all weak and soppy over. She stayed where she was to command the entire resistance army, while he went off being the solitary hero/dick he always is  She showed emotion over his death, but she didn't go to pieces like some usual ridiculous hysterical woman trope, she continued to command the forces. She was a positive representation of a woman, imo. Being a 'strong' woman doesn't mean not feeling emotion, doesn't mean having to be the one holding the gun, doesn't mean not being in love.



I was quite glad that the two of them were estranged tbh. Those two characters, you can see them falling in love but spending thirty years together in martial bliss? Nah, that was never going to happen. And of course Leia still loves him, but does she lose her shit when he dies? No, because Leia wouldn't do that. She's never been a sentimental character, she's always got on with whatever needed doing no matter the circumstances. And she's smart, she knew Han's chances of coming back were pretty marginal and would have made her peace with that.

Abrams might not be perfect at handling plot and pacing but he does have a good eye for characters and emotions. There are emotional scenes in the movie that could've been padded out (the way Lucas did with the universally awful Anakin-Padme scenes in the prequels) and overplayed but they never are. You get a real sense of the affection between Finn and Rey even though they never actually say much to each other. Credit to the two actors there as well, particularly John Boyega who was the best thing in the movie for me.


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 3, 2016)

I'm not being funny, but did Boyega remind anyone else of the young Muhammad Ali?


----------



## Redeyes (Feb 5, 2016)




----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 6, 2016)

Even better...


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 6, 2016)

Harrison Ford looks weird back to front.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 6, 2016)

Look at what my friend made:


----------



## ruffneck23 (Feb 11, 2016)




----------



## Santino (Feb 11, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


>



Is that worth 45 minutes of my time?


----------



## ruffneck23 (Feb 11, 2016)

his voice is a bit whiney but there are loads of really good little tie ins


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Feb 11, 2016)

ruffneck23 said:


>




That is quite addictive viewing.

Interesting that Finn is basically the the new chewie and Rey the new Han.....in his opinion...


----------



## ruffneck23 (Feb 11, 2016)

Yeah I clicked on it not know what to expect but it's actually very good


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 11, 2016)

I'll watch that in a wee while.

One thing I wanted to say is that even though the granting of access to Skeilig Michael was problematic, the film made really good use of it as  a sacred space.

Even though if you're Irish, it doesn't look alien or exotic at all.


----------



## T & P (Feb 14, 2016)

Just watched the video. Pretty interesting, and the 45 minutes went by very quickly.

Damn, I want to watch the film again....


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 14, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> Even though if you're Irish, it doesn't look alien or exotic at all.


it looks like a class m planet. Irishness notwithstanding, everyones going to find that familiar or at least earth-like.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 14, 2016)

Maybe  you have  to know  that area. For me  it stuck out like a sore thumb.

The bits  film in england  were   generic  enough  not to  stick out   but  that landscape   to me   is  very distinctive.  especially  with the drystone walling.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 15, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> The bits  film in england  were   generic  enough  not to  stick out   but  that landscape   to me   is  very distinctive.  especially  with the drystone walling.



When I saw it I thought it looked like somewhere in north Wales, but then I don't really know Ireland at all.


----------



## 8den (Feb 15, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Maybe  you have  to know  that area. For me  it stuck out like a sore thumb.
> 
> The bits  film in england  were   generic  enough  not to  stick out   but  that landscape   to me   is  very distinctive.  especially  with the drystone walling.



Sorry the bits in England screamed "lake district".


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 15, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> When I saw it I thought it looked like somewhere in north Wales, but then I don't really know Ireland at all.



I thought it was a Scottish island. Shall we all just agree that if you're familiar with the area and others like it, you may have been able to spot where it was filmed, and if you're vaguely aware of what other bits of these islands we live on look like you might think it's one or another bit of them, and that if you have no idea what they look like you might even think it's new zealand. It really doesn't matter you guys.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Feb 15, 2016)

8den said:


> Sorry the bits in England screamed "lake district".



I've never been to the lake district. They screamed 'forest' to me.

It doesn't matter.


----------



## xenon (Feb 15, 2016)

When I saw full metal jacket. I thought that's what Vietnam looks like. It was the Docklands of course but I've never been to Vietnam.  Mind you I've never been to the Docklands either.


----------



## DotCommunist (Feb 15, 2016)

but have you been to you?


----------



## Idris2002 (Feb 15, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> it looks like a class m planet. Irishness notwithstanding, everyones going to find that familiar or at least earth-like.


Yes, but what I'm saying is that if you're Irish and you've grown up with Sceilig Michael as a national icon, then the particular _kind _of shock of recognition you'll experience will be different.


----------



## The Octagon (Feb 15, 2016)

Speaking of that particular location....


----------



## pogofish (Feb 15, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> Yes, but what I'm saying is that if you're Irish and you've grown up with Sceilig Michael as a national icon, then the particular _kind _of shock of recognition you'll experience will be different.



Similarly, if you knew your Cold War stuff, the scenes shot in the former cruise missile bunkers at Greenham Common just leapt-out!


----------



## emanymton (Feb 15, 2016)

Can anyone recommend any torrents for the original films from before Lucus fucked around with them. I have some DVDs somewhere but bugged if I know where they are.


----------



## Ted Striker (Feb 15, 2016)

emanymton said:


> Can anyone recommend any torrents for the original films from before Lucus fucked around with them. I have some DVDs somewhere but bugged if I know where they are.



Look for the Despecialized versions.


----------



## T & P (Feb 15, 2016)

The 'Easter egg' video review posted upthread made some interesting claims about JJ Abrams's alleged contempt for all the changes Lucas has made to the original trilogy. The 'cantina' scene in The Force Awakens is a big fuck you to George Lucas, if the video's author is to be believed.


----------



## emanymton (Feb 15, 2016)

Ted Striker said:


> Look for the Despecialized versions.


I'll have a look, thanks.


----------



## Crispy (Feb 15, 2016)

While we're on the topic, is there a better pirate copy of this yet? I have a terrible cam version with silhouettes of audience members in it. Must be something better by now?


----------



## fishfinger (Feb 15, 2016)

Crispy said:


> While we're on the topic, is there a better pirate copy of this yet? I have a terrible cam version with silhouettes of audience members in it. Must be something better by now?


Not yet


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 16, 2016)

Crispy said:


> While we're on the topic, is there a better pirate copy of this yet? I have a terrible cam version with silhouettes of audience members in it. Must be something better by now?



And some bloke with a Welsh accent muttering about how the management suspects someone is filming the movie


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 16, 2016)

Idris2002 said:


> I'll watch that in a wee while.
> 
> One thing I wanted to say is that even though the granting of access to Skeilig Michael was problematic, the film made really good use of it as  a sacred space.
> 
> Even though if you're Irish, it doesn't look alien or exotic at all.



Maybe, maybe not. Personally, when we went there it felt kind of otherworldly. I think it's one of the most beautiful places I've ever visited.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 13, 2016)

kabbes said:


> Just because you insist what it was initially, doesn't mean you're right, you know.  I always say what I mean, and if it needs clarifying, I clarify it.


I was re-reading this thread cos I couldn't find a cool bb-8 video (the sphero toy obvs) and it occured to me I had possibly been a bit of a dick to you for the crime of disagreeing with me. So apologies for that. I get raised hackles when I think someone is cussing things I like.


----------



## kabbes (Mar 14, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I was re-reading this thread cos I couldn't find a cool bb-8 video (the sphero toy obvs) and it occured to me I had possibly been a bit of a dick to you for the crime of disagreeing with me. So apologies for that. I get raised hackles when I think someone is cussing things I like.


Cheers!


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 22, 2016)

Internets.... cough cough


----------



## Crispy (Mar 23, 2016)

Oh goody


----------



## Dan U (Mar 23, 2016)

Yep it's all out there now.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2016)

excellent, I only saw it once cos its xmas and 3 family birthdays so once was all the old wallet would stretch to

Now I can watch it with my judegement unclouded by the inner 12 year olds happy joy nostalgia time.


----------



## The Octagon (Mar 23, 2016)

Rewatched it last night.

It's funnier than I recall from the cinema (mainly Finn and his interactions with other characters, the BB-8 thumbs up is a genuine lol), and undoubtedly entertaining throughout, but the New Hope parallels are even more obvious on 2nd viewing and it feels like a set up movie, rather than it's own thing.

Hoping Rian Johnson pushes things further in Ep VIII.


----------



## krtek a houby (Mar 23, 2016)

As recycling goes; it's entertaining. After all; the original was Lucas taking and dishing up a load of influences


----------



## binka (Mar 23, 2016)

Oh good I'll watch it again and hopefully we can rekindle a few of the arguments on this topic - i don't think we really got to the bottom of it first time around


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2016)

binka said:


> Oh good I'll watch it again and hopefully we can rekindle a few of the arguments on this topic - i don't think we really got to the bottom of it first time around


are you sure? I recall I was right and others were wrong.


----------



## binka (Mar 23, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> are you sure? I recall I was right and others were wrong.


I remember you being highly emotional and completely lacking any sense of objectivity


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2016)

binka said:


> I remember you being highly emotional and completely lacking any sense of objectivity


unlikely. We'll revisit after this evening re-watch and I can correct the erroneous once more


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 24, 2016)

Watched it again on the projector. As entertainment it works very well, as storytelling maybe less so but the flipside of them cutting out so much backstory stuff is that what you're left with is as lean as hell. Compare it to the prequels with all their endless exposition and it's a huge improvement.

Finn and Rey are both great to watch. Less convinced by Kylo Ren and General Hux. The recycled plot isn't actually that grating, apart from a couple of moments where the characters seem to draw attention to the fact that we've been here before in a way that effectively breaks the fourth wall.

Overall though, it makes you happy when you watch it. It's made with love and care. There's attention to detail but also a lightness of touch to the whole thing, there are details in the background that you don't notice first time round. Nothing is on screen for a second longer than it needs to be. Considering the many balancing acts involved and the huge amount of baggage the franchise carries, it's about as good as it could have been.


----------



## souljacker (Mar 24, 2016)

Watched it again last night. I think the Kylo Ren reveal is the only shit thing in it. There are loads of plot holes and 'why the fuck did they do that' moments but they can be easily explained by the force. Kylo looking like Keanu Reeves is fucking rubbish.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2016)

souljacker said:


> Watched it again last night. I think the Kylo Ren reveal is the only shit thing in it. There are loads of plot holes and 'why the fuck did they do that' moments but they can be easily explained by the force. Kylo looking like Keanu Reeves is fucking rubbish.


I cussed that on the first watch. No for me, as with spooky, Hux is a bit of an issue with his 2-d space nazi act. But other than that its still good


----------



## souljacker (Mar 24, 2016)

2nd time around I still gasped a little bit at Han saying 'We're home'.

Cheesy as fuck but nailed it IMO.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 24, 2016)

Separated at birth:

Skywalker






Žižek


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 24, 2016)

Watching again, I was struck by Abrams having no clue how big space is - this could all have happened in one planetary system. Irritating.

But no matter, it's still a fine piece of entertainment. The casting of Rey and Finn had to be right, and they nailed it. And yeah, "We're home".


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2016)

also, the bloke who says 'I'm not sure how to describe a weapon of this scale' is matt parkman from Heroes  blink and miss him


----------



## PursuedByBears (Mar 24, 2016)

I thought so!!!


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2016)

I'd also say that on the second watch General Organa Solowas more noticable as a general and had that air-of-command etc. 

Oh and Poe Dameron deffo has the face that launched a thousand x-wings


----------



## Santino (Mar 25, 2016)

I enjoyed how ineffective Kylo Ren and Hux were. Privileged white boys playing at being Vader/Tarkin.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 25, 2016)

Santino said:


> I enjoyed how ineffective Kylo Ren and Hux were. Privileged white boys playing at being Vader/Tarkin.


its not that hux was ineffective for me, just that he was all but doing the finger tash and goose step. Thats always been there with empire officers but it was a bit milked here imo


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 25, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> also, the bloke who says 'I'm not sure how to describe a weapon of this scale' is matt parkman from Heroes  blink and miss him



He's flying an x-wing in the attack on the notadeathstar too.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 25, 2016)

I'm also surprised I didn't twig Daniel Craig first time round.


----------



## krtek a houby (Mar 25, 2016)

Santino said:


> I enjoyed how ineffective Kylo Ren and Hux were. Privileged white boys playing at being Vader/Tarkin.



Ren's tantrums remind me of Anakin. But more enjoyable.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Mar 25, 2016)

anyone got the blu ray leaked version yet with the deleted scenes ?


----------



## kabbes (Mar 25, 2016)

Second time round, I enjoyed Finn and Rey even more than the first time round.  They really are the best pair of characters I have seen in a film in a very long time, and their acting is pitch-perfect.  I still think Poe is a good completion of the trio too, and love the Finn-Poe relationship -- straight out of an 80s buddy movie.

I agree with the other stuff written here too.  I.e. Ren's reveal is weak and Hux is 2-D, but the sense of them being privileged boys playing at srs leaders is well done.


----------



## krtek a houby (Mar 25, 2016)

Oooh - deleted scenes!

Star Wars: The Force Awakens Deleted Scenes Teased


----------



## xenon (Apr 2, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> That sounds fucking excellent. If you go, please provide a full report



I did go to this. 

It was fun. Readings and Q&As by anthology contributers. Tropes of distressed damsals, princesses in peril, implausible armour lingery fuck off. Martial art talk, swordplay demos.  AKA women who know their shit saying this is how a fight with blades goes down.  
Vintage Paw

Should be podcast / audio and video soon. Check www.bristolcon.org for links. Or earlier link. Ebook is available in usual places.


----------



## xenon (Apr 2, 2016)

Course I had to have a look a / hold the swords / knives. (Blunted replicars H&S fans.)


----------



## Tankus (Apr 2, 2016)

Well .....that was decidedly pants......and WTF happened to Carrie Fisher...?...she was an actress once.....

I've seen goldfish with a greater emotional range....and their lips move when they blow bubbles...


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 2, 2016)

Tankus said:


> Well .....that was decidedly pants......and WTF happened to Carrie Fisher...?...she was an actress once.....
> 
> I've seen goldfish with a greater emotional range....and their lips move when they blow bubbles...



She's still an actor. A lot of her scenes were cut, though.


----------



## Tankus (Apr 3, 2016)

Pity they all weren't


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 3, 2016)

Tankus said:


> Pity they all weren't



So; it's her performance that irks you - not that the script may not have served her well?


----------



## Tankus (Apr 3, 2016)

Just the bit between the start of the film and the end titles

It was just a rehash.....but probably not the worst in the franchise.......I guess I'm not a fanboy

JJ did a better job of the first star trek reboot...methinks.......


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2016)

Tankus said:


> fanboy


the female fans of star wars are legion. In fact their are many of them in the 501st legion of stormtrooper cosplayers.


Tankus said:


> JJ did a better job of the first star trek reboot...methinks.......


this is an opinion so wrong I don't know how to counter it. I'll have to let the enormity of its wrong settle in then get back to you after I have finished reeling in shock


----------



## zoooo (Apr 3, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> Oh and Poe Dameron deffo has the face that launched a thousand x-wings


Is that another way of saying he's really, really, really pretty?


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Apr 3, 2016)

zoooo said:


> Is that another way of saying he's really, really, really pretty?


He can act too


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 3, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> this is an opinion so wrong I don't know how to counter it. I'll have to let the enormity of its wrong settle in then get back to you after I have finished reeling in shock



Innit.

This star was  is  actually, y'know star wars.   That star trek  just wasn't very star trek.


----------



## zoooo (Apr 3, 2016)

Pseudopsycho said:


> He can act too


Yes. But even there I can't help objectifying his shoulders.
Sorry, Mr Isaac.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2016)

zoooo said:


> Is that another way of saying he's really, really, really pretty?


from helen of troy 'the face that launched a thousand ships' in reference to the trojan war


----------



## binka (Apr 3, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> Innit.
> 
> This star was  is  actually, y'know star wars.   That star trek  just wasn't very star trek.


Good because Star Trek pre-Abrams was rubbish


----------



## binka (Apr 3, 2016)

Tankus said:


> JJ did a better job of the first star trek reboot...methinks.......


Agreed though in both he completely fails to understand what space is and how it works


----------



## zoooo (Apr 3, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> from helen of troy 'the face that launched a thousand ships' in reference to the trojan war


I know, but is launching ships a compliment, or are the ships trying to get away from her face. 
I'm just dumb enough that I'm not 100% sure.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2016)

zoooo said:


> I know, but is launching ships a compliment, or are the ships trying to get away from her face.
> I'm just dumb enough that I'm not 100% sure.


the idea is that her beauty launched the thousand ships, black hulled and over wine dark sea. I'm no scholia here but its a compliment on beauty from me fo sho. Wether or not a thousand ship war over one womans beauty is a disgusting litany of ownership and an example of property war, hellenic old school style, is up to the reader. I actually like oddesy better. They made a stop motion film of it by this amazing guy called ray harryhausen. Yo may remember the classic skellinton warriors fight which seemed like the best bit but isn't, I watched it when he carked it and pretty much all of it is still gold


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 3, 2016)

binka said:


> Good because Star Trek pre-Abrams was rubbish



Trek fans quite liked it.

Is it so much to ask that a reboot holds true to the spirit of the first  and doesn't just whore itself to test screenings and demographics


----------



## Tankus (Apr 3, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> the female fans of star wars are legion. In fact their are many of them in the 501st legion of stormtrooper cosplayers.
> 
> this is an opinion so wrong I don't know how to counter it. I'll have to let the enormity of its wrong settle in then get back to you after I have finished reeling in shock


I ain't a girl

Not a trekkie ,or trekster , or whatever they are  called now..either .....just thought that first JJ trek had a lot more going on in the story line ,seemingly better written  , a bit more humor and irony ......and far better actors.....
Its as if they were really going for it , rather than tiredly thinking about their pension plan options in between ........or possibly during takes....


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 3, 2016)

binka said:


> Good because Star Trek pre-Abrams was rubbish


I used to think you were cool.


----------



## Cid (Apr 3, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> it looks like a class m planet. Irishness notwithstanding, everyones going to find that familiar or at least earth-like.





Vintage Paw said:


> I thought it was a Scottish island. Shall we all just agree that if you're familiar with the area and others like it, you may have been able to spot where it was filmed, and if you're vaguely aware of what other bits of these islands we live on look like you might think it's one or another bit of them, and that if you have no idea what they look like you might even think it's new zealand. It really doesn't matter you guys.



7th century monastic settlement and UNESCO world heritage site. Interesting for its beehive cells and illustration of the extreme isolation desired by early Christian communities. All of which I had to stop myself remarking on to my companions during the closing minutes of ep VII.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 3, 2016)

Tankus said:


> Just the bit between the start of the film and the end titles
> 
> It was just a rehash.....but probably not the worst in the franchise.......I guess I'm not a fanboy
> 
> JJ did a better job of the first star trek reboot...methinks.......



It's a bit weird that you're laying your dislike for the entire film at the feet of Carrie Fisher


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 3, 2016)

Weird assertion too. She did a good job


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 3, 2016)

Cid said:


> 7th century monastic settlement and UNESCO world heritage site. Interesting for its beehive cells and illustration of the extreme isolation desired by early Christian communities. All of which I had to stop myself remarking on to my companions during the closing minutes of ep VII.


its good that you can ejaculate on us


----------



## Tankus (Apr 3, 2016)

Uh ....?......nah ....just a weak link among  many .....did anyone see her lips move ? ..or her face ...
Fin was irritating and trying to hard.......and the  girl...?.....I was expecting to see her arm cut off...if it had been her head......meh..like so what....zero empathy with the character's.
The bouncyball robot had all the best lines ...

Not the worst film I've seen this year.....but certainly one I won't bother to see again

Maybe it's better watched with rose tinted glasses


----------



## Ax^ (Apr 3, 2016)

just Re watched in a not cinema setting

the thing that got me this time is just how useless are the republic... sitting back at watching as the new Sith (first order ) build a mega death star and don't think that it might end badly..


----------



## Tankus (Apr 3, 2016)

That Oscar whatsits was good in _ex machina_.. A far better film than both the star bores...with a really creepy thought provoking ending


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Apr 3, 2016)

Note that the bloke on the left is Grand Moff tarkin General Hux


----------



## scifisam (Apr 3, 2016)

I now don't want to watch Ex Machina. Anyone who hates pre-Abrams Trek and the new Star Wars has pretty much the opposite taste in movies to me, ie theirs is terrible.


----------



## scifisam (Apr 3, 2016)

Pseudopsycho said:


> Note that the bloke on the left is Grand Moff tarkin General Hux


And the bloke on the right is Poe, of course.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Apr 3, 2016)

scifisam said:


> I now don't want to watch Ex Machina. Anyone who hates pre-Abrams Trek and the new Star Wars has pretty much the opposite taste in movies to me, ie theirs is terrible.


Ex machina is very good and I grew up with pre-Abrams Trek and thoroughly enjoyed the new Star Wars...

So that helps


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 3, 2016)

scifisam said:


> I now don't want to watch Ex Machina. Anyone who hates pre-Abrams Trek and the new Star Wars has pretty much the opposite taste in movies to me, ie theirs is terrible.


No no no no no you have to see it


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 3, 2016)

Ex machina is very very good scifisam


----------



## mentalchik (Apr 3, 2016)

scifisam said:


> I now don't want to watch Ex Machina. Anyone who hates pre-Abrams Trek and the new Star Wars has pretty much the opposite taste in movies to me, ie theirs is terrible.



No watch it sam..........you know my tastes in sci-fi i think and Ex machina is a fab film.....


----------



## 8115 (Apr 3, 2016)

It's ok.



Spoiler: Plot



It would have been better without the AI lady being an object of male fantasy, I just found that insulting and unnecessary.



The new Star Wars is terrible, people just want to believe though.


----------



## binka (Apr 3, 2016)

CNT36 said:


> I used to think you were cool.


It's a common mistake


----------



## binka (Apr 3, 2016)

scifisam said:


> Anyone who hates pre-Abrams Trek and the new Star Wars has pretty much the opposite taste in movies to me, ie theirs is terrible.


I've actually seen quite a lot of it, probably the majority of episodes from all the different versions and all the films so I'm not coming at it from a position of ignorance. It's just so... dull!


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 3, 2016)

Watching it for the third time end of the month at a drive in cinema, can't wait!


----------



## scifisam (Apr 3, 2016)

binka said:


> I've actually seen quite a lot of it, probably the majority of episodes from all the different versions and all the films so I'm not coming at it from a position of ignorance. It's just so... dull!


Why did you watch so much of something you hate? Btw you also have terrible, terrible taste.


----------



## binka (Apr 3, 2016)

scifisam said:


> Why did you watch so much of something you hate? Btw you also have terrible, terrible taste.


I thought it was ok at the time, but in retrospect it wasn't


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 4, 2016)

Spoiler: Massive Star Trek rant



I can kinda see that attitude  for the TV shows  and some of the movies so I'm not going to argue  your totally wrong. 
Enjoyment   is always  subjective.  The TV series  in particular  are very hit and miss.

I would say however there are some old Trek movies  that  are  just  better  that the JJ Trek movies.  

The  most obvious example is "Wrath of Kahn" a movie  so good  they  tried  to  copy it.  I don't get how anyone  could rate that  below the  JJ movies. 

I would argue the whole Spock Trilogy of II-III-IV are great movies.  With ST III being  the  best of the odd trek movies just eclipsed by being between the  best serious Trek movie and the best light-hearted Trek movie.

After that the movies  do  work  better  for  people  who know Trek. VI  is a great Trek movie. Not so much  great Sci-Fi  but  a movie  that  understood the franchise really well and  used it's love of the characters and setting  to  be an excellent send off for one crew and to segue into the  broader franchise.

The TNG Stuff  I felt  this  was even more the case   and  it was  also  where the quality really  started to  drop  for a  number of reasons but  it's not with out it's highlights  like First Contact.

I do think   the movies  had diminishing returns  and  there are a few stinkers.  I can totally  see why some one  might  not  be  overly fond   of   a whole lot of them   but  i  really  think it is   unfair  to  say there were no  good Star Trek films.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 4, 2016)

Tankus said:


> Uh ....?......nah ....just a weak link among  many .....did anyone see her lips move ? ..or her face ...
> Fin was irritating and trying to hard.......and the  girl...?.....I was expecting to see her arm cut off...if it had been her head......meh..like so what....zero empathy with the character's.
> The bouncyball robot had all the best lines ...
> 
> ...



"the girl"


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 4, 2016)

The Internet says Ade Edmondson has been cast for the next film.
I hope it's as an Imperial baddy - he'd be good at that - his Richtoven in Blackadder was ace.
BUT if he plays a Jedi, he should have a light saber in the shape of a frying pan


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 4, 2016)

I hope they actually do something  with him.  Most of the  actors in the first are blink and you'll miss it.  

also  now sad  as  he can't  appear along side rik mayall


----------



## T & P (Apr 5, 2016)

Erik Bauersfeld, the voice of Admiral Ackbar, is with the Force now  

Admiral Ackbar voice actor Erik Bauersfeld dies at 93 - BBC News


----------



## alsoknownas (Apr 5, 2016)

8115 said:


> It's ok.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


This. It's a load of misogynist tripe dressed up in 'profound' runny gravy.  Technically brilliant, but otherwise lame.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 5, 2016)

alsoknownas said:


> This. It's a load of misogynist tripe dressed up in 'profound' runny gravy.  Technically brilliant, but otherwise lame.


Ex Machina is misogynistic? Eh? Think you've seriously misread the film


----------



## alsoknownas (Apr 5, 2016)

Orang Utan said:


> Ex Machina is misogynistic? Eh? Think you've seriously misread the film


I don't.  I think the filmmakers would like us all to think that it's a deep and meaningful lament on bondage and servitude and identity, but really it's just another parade of docile, naked, female fantasy figures from sci-fi's long lineage.

[SPOILER ALERT]:

TEXT: Isn't it a burden having to be all concerned about rights and wrongs of acting out our fantasies? 

SUBTEXT: Wouldn't it be cool if, like, you could _make _women who matched your (*snigger*) porn preferences? And then you could like, fuck them, and they would dance for you, and bring you beers, and stuff, cos you'd live in, like, the coolest pad in the world, and oh yeah, you could actually chop them up and dangle their severed limbs about, cos that's actually (*shhhh!*) _cool! _

It's just classic have-your-cake-and-eat-it shit - for most of the film you have two blokes playing out an 'Alpha' power game, with the woman slaving decoratively away in the background, then right at the end you resolve it all by giving the protags their come-uppance.  Classic double-speak tactics (like the ones used to bluff the Hays Code for all those years).

 *
*Data may not be strictly scientific


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 5, 2016)

Well I liked it as the two fellas turned out both to be douchebags, and the woman escaped them both to be on her own on her own terms. I found that to be refreshing, even though I guess it reinforces the Christian idea of woman being created from/by men.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 5, 2016)

That's the problem with this kind of thing. The intent and even the final message of a thing doesn't necessarily matter if how you get there is handled badly.

My rule of thumb seems to have evolved into "do I have to search for the 'good meaning'" and/or "does the 'good meaning' have to be explained at length because it's obfuscated by a lot of crap that reinforces the opposite"?

If the answer is yes to either or both of those, it's not doing its job well enough, if indeed it claims to be all about that 'good meaning' in the first place.

See also Sucker Punch, since it keeps getting brought up.

If it takes people with a lot of experience interpreting texts to do all the explaining about what something _really_ means, when people without that experience (or, frankly, inclination - which is fine) would take it on face value - then that face value is how we should judge it in the first instance.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 5, 2016)

First I've heard Sucker Punch brought up. 
I don't really understand what you're getting at tbh. I thought Ex Machina was pretty explicit in its message


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 5, 2016)

Maybe it was on another thread.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 5, 2016)

it was on the batman vs superman thread


----------



## Santino (Apr 5, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> That's the problem with this kind of thing. The intent and even the final message of a thing doesn't necessarily matter if how you get there is handled badly.
> 
> My rule of thumb seems to have evolved into "do I have to search for the 'good meaning'" and/or "does the 'good meaning' have to be explained at length because it's obfuscated by a lot of crap that reinforces the opposite"?
> 
> ...


Like Al Murray, Pub Landlord.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Apr 5, 2016)

It's just classic have-your-cake-and-eat-it shit - *for most of the film you have two blokes playing out an 'Alpha' power game, with the woman slaving decoratively away in the background*, then right at the end you resolve it all by giving the protags their come-uppance. Classic double-speak tactics (like the ones used to bluff the Hays Code for all those years).

I think that the film is deeper than this, it stuck with me after watching and left me thinking about the nature of consciousness as opposed to our concepts of humanity with embedded emotional connotations. The parts I have put in bold I think are just wrong. 

I had just got halfway through putting some thoughts in the spoiler below when I read VPs post  The spoiler isn't finished but I could end up writing an essay and hijacking the thread 

This film is nothing like sucker punch.



Spoiler: Massive Spoilers



Do you really think that the billionaire leaving in isolation and so devoid of any empathy or ability to actually relate to people in order to form a relationship is a character to which viewers are supposed to support? The way in which he treats Kyoto is abhorrent even before the reveal (ie the racist and misogynist way he treats Kyoto when she spills drinks).

The nature of Ava's gender and appearance are both explained in the film as a way for Nathan to induce romantic feelings towards Ava, who is self-aware enough to see this and manipulate Caleb in her own way as a means of escape - indeed Nathan describes her as "a rat in a maze". At the end she asks him "will you stay here?" and he says "yes", so she leaves him.

Throughout the film Nathan is not only controlling the situation but trying to get Caleb to validate his life and how he relates to Kyoto and his creations. There is very much a feeling about the film that it is critiquing Nathan's lack of humanity as much as the consequences of Ava's emergent personality; and his own failings as a moral being lead to the creation of a mirror image as manipulative as he is.



Back on topic - I've pre=ordered/reserved/ordered/requested from the supplier (delete according to your preference) the Dark Side limited edition blu-ray


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Apr 5, 2016)

Santino said:


> Like Al Murray, Pub Landlord.



It's a lot more obvious who the "villain" of the piece is and it's demonstrated over and over again in both his actions and the reactions of the other characters.


----------



## 8115 (Apr 5, 2016)

alsoknownas said:


> I don't.  I think the filmmakers would like us all to think that it's a deep and meaningful lament on bondage and servitude and identity, but really it's just another parade of docile, naked, female fantasy figures from sci-fi's long lineage.
> 
> [SPOILER ALERT]:
> 
> ...


"A man will be the first person to build a lifelike AI being, women in science and tech are dolls and receptionists"


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 6, 2016)

binka said:


> I thought it was ok at the time, but in retrospect it wasn't


Or perhaps if you haven't watched it for a while you have forgotten how good at least some of it is? I enjoyed both of the recent Star Trek films but only by pretending they had fuck all to do with Star Trek. If I had judged old Trek based on what I enjoyed about them films I'd probably think it was shit too. I came out of the first one thinking I'd never be able to handle the slow pace and lack of action again. A few weeks later I rewatched the vast majority of deep space nine,


----------



## NoXion (Apr 7, 2016)

Right, so I saw this film recently. These are my thoughts after just seeing it once.

*Good stuff:*

The characters of Rey and Finn are likable, which makes up for the fact that the speed at which they pick things up and demonstrate hypercompetence (Rey's piloting, Finn's lightsaber skills) stretches my suspension of disbelief a little painfully. Yeah I know the Force is at work, but it still seemed a little fast and convenient for my tastes.

Kylo Ren is a decent baddie. He's no Darth Vader, instead he's a wannabe who worships an idealised concept of his grandfather. Whereas Vader calmly Force choked Admirals as an unequivocal punishment for failure, Kylo Ren's own incompetence causes him to fly into a petulant and violent yet impotent rage that scares off some anonymous henchmen (a little scene that I found darkly amusing). His act of murderising his old man in the first film of this new trilogy gives me hope that he'll become even more of a threat if he furthers his training under the tutelage of that Snoke fella and also learns to direct his anger more usefully.

Speaking of Snoke, he's an interesting mystery. Knowledgeable in the ways of the dark side of the Force, yet he has a secular title which suggests he's not a Sith. Is he really that big or did he just turn up a dial on his holo-projector? My curiosity has been piqued.

The quality of the visual design and cinematography is excellent, but I wish they'd been a bit more adventurous with the location choices. We've seen a desert planet in the other trilogies, would it really have hurt to try something else? Like I don't know, an asteroid colony in the middle of a starship graveyard? That would at least have provided more of a justification for Rey's superlative piloting skills. We've seen snowy planets before but none with trees, which gave a surprisingly different atmosphere to the scenes. Slight lack of imagination aside, the execution is really well done. It's definitely Star Wars, which I suppose was the point. Hopefully in the next two films they can keep up the good quality while no longer playing it safe.

*Meh stuff:*

Captain Phasma. What a waste of a potentially interesting character! Rather than being held at gunpoint and then stuffed into a waste compactor, she should have faced off against Finn instead of that anonymous Stormtrooper. I liked the fact that the film-makers resisted the temptation to have her remove her helmet at any point. Too many films/TV shows with fully-armoured female characters insist on having them remove their helmets at the earliest possible juncture so we can get a good look at their perfect, unsmudged makeup and unmussed hair. It's not as bad as those ridiculous armoured lingerie/swimwear things that too many video game characters wear, but it's still tiresome. I'm hoping that Captain Phasma returns in the next film and gets some decent scenes where she actually kicks ass.

While I can understand why people found the amount of exposition and worldbuilding in the Prequel Trilogy to be tedious, I think this film has gone too far the other way. Not enough to actually sink it for me, but enough that I noticed that the film had a tendency to jump from one set piece to the next.

*Bad stuff:*

JJ Abrams really needs to get a proper sense of scale for science fiction, or he should fuck off. The Resistance might be a small private army raised by General Leia with some money from sympathetic Senators, but on a galactic scale that should translate into something a bit more significant than a couple of dozen updated X-Wings. And what the hell was going on with that Starkiller Base? The dialogue implied it was a planet-destroying weapon that could hit multiple separate targets at interstellar range, but the visual effects made it look like it was shooting at planets right next door to it at best. Abrams has previous for this kind of shit, with characters being able to look up into sky and see planets light years away being devastated.

---

Overall it was a good start to the new trilogy, despite sometimes feeling like a remix of A New Hope I'm interested in seeing what happens next. I'm hoping that the success of this film emboldens the creators to take more risks because otherwise it'll be a waste of both talent and opportunity.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Apr 7, 2016)

There was no apes on horseback, with guns......

....and they call it entertainment....

my arse


----------



## NoXion (Apr 7, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> There was no apes on horseback, with guns......
> 
> ....and they call it entertainment....
> 
> my arse



That's because it was _Star Wars_, not _Planet of the Apes_.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Apr 7, 2016)

NoXion said:


> That's because it was _Star Wars_, not _Planet of the Apes_.



Oh. My mistake. As you were.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 7, 2016)

NoXion said:


> *Bad stuff:*
> 
> JJ Abrams really needs to get a proper sense of scale for science fiction, or he should fuck off. The Resistance might be a small private army raised by General Leia with some money from sympathetic Senators, but on a galactic scale that should translate into something a bit more significant than a couple of dozen updated X-Wings. And what the hell was going on with that Starkiller Base? The dialogue implied it was a planet-destroying weapon that could hit multiple separate targets at interstellar range, but the visual effects made it look like it was shooting at planets right next door to it at best. Abrams has previous for this kind of shit, with characters being able to look up into sky and see planets light years away being devastated.



This was and still is my main gripe with the film. They're called light years because it takes light_ years _to travel across those distances. Maybe the starkiller thingy can fire at hyperspace speeds, but it's beyond comprehension that people would be able to see it happening in real time from a different star system.


----------



## The Octagon (Apr 7, 2016)

Rogue One Teaser just came out of nowhere (barely any footage, just a 15 second hype piece), first trailer coming around midday today apparently.

Strong rumours of some familiar faces making an appearance in the film itself (breathes heavily)


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 7, 2016)

The Octagon said:


> Rogue One Teaser just came out of nowhere (barely any footage, just a 15 second hype piece), first trailer coming around midday today apparently.
> 
> Strong rumours of some familiar faces making an appearance in the film itself (breathes heavily)


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2016)

NoXion said:


> Overall it was a good start to the new trilogy, despite sometimes feeling like a remix of A New Hope I'm interested in seeing what happens next. I'm hoping that the success of this film emboldens the creators to take more risks because otherwise it'll be a waste of both talent and opportunity.



They've got Rian Johnson helming the next one, who did Brick and Looper, so it should be a bit more thoughtful.


----------



## Orang Utan (Apr 7, 2016)

Crispy said:


> They've got Rian Johnson helming the next one, who did Brick and Looper, so it should be a bit more maddeningly incoherent.


FFY


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 7, 2016)

Crispy said:


> They've got Rian Johnson helming the next one, who did Brick and Looper, so it should be a bit more rewarding of repeat viewings.





Orang Utan said:


> FFY


FFY


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2016)

Thread for new fillum here: Star Wars: Rogue One (December 2016)


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 7, 2016)

Cor, I've never had a "your post has been moved" alert before


----------



## editor (Apr 7, 2016)

Lord Camomile said:


> Cor, I've never had a "your post has been moved" alert before


THE FUTURE. NOW. HERE.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 7, 2016)

NoXion said:


> *Meh stuff:*
> 
> Captain Phasma. What a waste of a potentially interesting character! Rather than being held at gunpoint and then stuffed into a waste compactor, she should have faced off against Finn instead of that anonymous Stormtrooper. I liked the fact that the film-makers resisted the temptation to have her remove her helmet at any point. Too many films/TV shows with fully-armoured female characters insist on having them remove their helmets at the earliest possible juncture so we can get a good look at their perfect, unsmudged makeup and unmussed hair. It's not as bad as those ridiculous armoured lingerie/swimwear things that too many video game characters wear, but it's still tiresome. I'm hoping that Captain Phasma returns in the next film and gets some decent scenes where she actually kicks ass.



I super totally agree with all of this.

Although the stuff about where she should have faced off against Finn. As I see it, there's no way Finn would win against her at this point, and to me it smacks of a classic "now they have a grudge" setting-up of a big old fight between them in one of the next films.

Still, as it stands it should have been handled better.


----------



## Brainaddict (Apr 12, 2016)

alsoknownas said:


> I don't.  I think the filmmakers would like us all to think that it's a deep and meaningful lament on bondage and servitude and identity, but really it's just another parade of docile, naked, female fantasy figures from sci-fi's long lineage.
> 
> [SPOILER ALERT]:
> 
> TEXT: Isn't it a burden having to be all concerned about rights and wrongs of acting out our fantasies?


A curious reading of the film. The uber-rich main character is clearly an arrogant dickbag from the beginning. You weren't meant to be rooting for him, or feel his burdens. I spent the whole film waiting to see how fucked up he was, cos it was clearly coming from the beginning, and the position of the women was clearly sinister from the outset.


----------



## alsoknownas (Apr 12, 2016)

Brainaddict said:


> A curious reading of the film. The uber-rich main character is clearly an arrogant dickbag from the beginning. You weren't meant to be rooting for him, or feel his burdens. I spent the whole film waiting to see how fucked up he was, cos it was clearly coming from the beginning, and the position of the women was clearly sinister from the outset.


It's not just the story, but the experience.  The baddie is always sexy.  The surroundings are always seductive.  The film isn't about how women can escape traps - that hardly happens at all; the film is a parade of titillating (future) lifestyle magazine clippings.

Of course the main character is a douche - they could hardly have made that film if he was being upheld as some kind of triumph; you can tell he's a baddie from the moment you see him from the kind of beard he has (I'm not even kidding).

It's not just the story - every film makes choices about where it places its characters in relation to past screen portrayals. Ava and Kyoko are (to borrow a phrase) helpless, helpless, helpless. Yes, I know that Ava is quietly playing the long game, but for most of her screen time she is meekly perched in her goldfish bowl, while the male characters plot, and circle each other, and act out the change.

This is why I don't like the film.  I think it's a sham.  A film ostensibly dealing with the male gaze, that conveniently features plenty of docile, wriggling, nude female.  A film that ostensibly challenges male monopolies of power, control and authorship, but manages to diminish it's female characters to (literally) transparent pawns.

Please read every sentence of this with the appendage _'...until right at the end._' for clarity  .

If this was a film about, say, slavery, it would have loads of docile, half-naked, helpless Black actors acting out every servile echo of bondage, while the slavemaster, and his conscience-stricken guest would furrow their brows and beat their chests, inbetween bouts of backgammon and plantation brews.  At the end 'Massa' would get his come-uppance.
The film would be banned from every theatre north of Oklahoma City, and subject to pickets, if not actual riots, everywhere else.

Now, I'm not saying that the filmmakers deliberately set out to make a misogynist film.  On the contrary, i'm sure they would argue that their film is liberating, progressive, whatever (doubt they'd use the word feminist, but nothing would surprise me).  But for me what they have done is built a fantasy world - with chicks and beers, and crazy pads, and computers, and all the cool stuff - and then hung a hokey moral tale around it.


----------



## kabbes (Apr 13, 2016)

It's certainly an interesting point to consider.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 13, 2016)

Finally seen it. It was...alright. Made me smile at several points. It really is just episode 4 all over again though


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 13, 2016)

NoXion said:


> ...Is he really that big or did he just turn up a dial on his holo-projector? My curiosity has been piqued.



I really really hope he's tiny, Yoda-sized, and that he has the galaxy's worst case of small man syndrome.


----------



## The Octagon (Apr 13, 2016)

mwgdrwg said:


> I really really hope he's tiny, Yoda-sized, and that he has the galaxy's worst case of small man syndrome.



I'm imaging the Fear Demon from Buffy


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 13, 2016)

The Octagon said:


> I'm imaging the Fear Demon from Buffy


Or Ren projecting who he wants to be like Fight Club but made almost real by Force magicks.


----------



## kabbes (Apr 13, 2016)

The Octagon said:


> I'm imaging the Fear Demon from Buffy



Page 23, my friend...



kabbes said:


> I reckon whoever he is, he'll turn out to be two inches high.  Like Gachnar in the Buffy episode "Fear, Itself".


----------



## T & P (Apr 19, 2016)

I just got to watch this for the second time, as it has become available to rent on demand. I have actually enjoyed it much more than the first time at the cinema. I think I was simply too distracted by the 3D graphics, as I was never a fan of 3D and I felt the cinematography was wasted on it. Never again on 3D.


----------



## Shippou-Sensei (Apr 19, 2016)

I saw it twice in the cinema. First in IMAX then  in regular 2D. I think it looked better in 2D.  It just felt right.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 19, 2016)

I'm done with 3D tbh. For one thing it's a bitch wearing the goggles over my normal glasses, but mostly the effects just aren't that good. The only thing that's really blown me away in 3D was the opening sequence of Gravity.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Apr 19, 2016)

They fucked 3D by doing 2D -> 3D conversions, instead of filming with proper 3D cameras.

The converted films always look blurry, dark, and like cardboard cutouts.


----------



## kabbes (Apr 19, 2016)

I've never seen any film in 3D in the cinema.  Just not interested in it at all.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 19, 2016)

yeah 3d is over rated


----------



## Gromit (Apr 19, 2016)

kabbes said:


> I've never seen any film in 3D in the cinema.  Just not interested in it at all.


There is only one film worth it ever made. 

Jaws 3D

Joke!


I mean Avatar actually. The only film made where the price of a 3D ticket is more than justified. 

I was literally blown away by how good this film is in 3D.


----------



## Ranbay (Apr 19, 2016)

waiting for 3D so I can download and watch it, watched about 4-5 films in 3D since I bought the telly in 2012

Saw 2D in the cinema so want to watch it again in 3D or something


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 19, 2016)

"Harry, I am your father"


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 20, 2016)

Oh, here's my DVD I pre-ordered arrived. And the extra features aren't on it, only available on the blu-ray. Well, that's disappointing.


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 21, 2016)

The force is back in Ireland

Star Wars film crew arrives in Donegal - BBC News


----------



## binka (Apr 21, 2016)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Oh, here's my DVD I pre-ordered arrived. And the extra features aren't on it, only available on the blu-ray. Well, that's disappointing.


Fucking hell that's pretty outrageous. With the constant attention to anti-piracy measures you'd think they'd realise shafting paying customers could be somewhat counter productive. If I was you I'd complain to Disney if only to find out what their rationale is.


----------



## emanymton (Apr 21, 2016)

So apparently someone is claiming to have seen a leaked script for Ep8 and posted the details online. 



Spoiler: Warning possible spoilers 






Spoiler: I've warned you once, are you sure? 



There's a link with all the details at the bottom of this article. 
Star Wars: Episode VIII 'leaked script' reveals rumoured plot twists






It's probably bullshit though. I hope it is as the twist is shit. There is one bit I really want to be true though.


----------



## T & P (Apr 21, 2016)

binka said:


> Fucking hell that's pretty outrageous. With the constant attention to anti-piracy measures you'd think they'd realise shafting paying customers could be somewhat counter productive. If I was you I'd complain to Disney if only to find out what their rationale is.


I nearly bought the DVD at a supermarket last night but the lack of mention of any extras on the box put me off. I'm glad I did not go for it now. Shower of cunts... Apparently in the US the DVD comes with extras, or lets you download a digital copy with them.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 22, 2016)

emanymton said:


> So apparently someone is claiming to have seen a leaked script for Ep8 and posted the details online.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A similar 'leak' for VII turned out to be mostly bullshit did it not?  Either way, I'm not clicking that spoiler tag.

e2a: I did click on the spoiler tag, but it just has a link. Which I successfully didn't click.


----------



## The Octagon (Apr 22, 2016)

emanymton said:


> So apparently someone is claiming to have seen a leaked script for Ep8 and posted the details online.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I just read it, it's laughably bad 



Spoiler



Rey is Luke Skywalker's 'father' because the chosen one reincarnates? Get to fuck


----------



## souljacker (Apr 22, 2016)

I don't want spoilers for this, mainly because the Han death was a brilliant twist and I want more of the same when this one comes out.


----------



## ruffneck23 (Apr 22, 2016)

I buckled and read a bit of the reddit article, and the twist if true is balls


----------



## Vintage Paw (Apr 22, 2016)

The Octagon said:


> I just read it, it's laughably bad
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I think that's hilarious. It's just the sort of batshit insane that is batshit insane enough to be true


----------



## emanymton (Apr 22, 2016)

Vintage Paw said:


> I think that's hilarious. It's just the sort of batshit insane that is batshit insane enough to be true


I've seen some totally batshit fan theory vids. Leia is Snoke, and Maz Kanata is a Jawa, are two that really stand out.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 22, 2016)

people make fan theories up to see how weird yet compelling they can go. So far just the latter part achieved


----------



## starfish (Apr 22, 2016)

It was better on my second viewing. Still a bit in shock & left with a feeling that id seen it all before.


----------



## T & P (Apr 23, 2016)

Annoyingly, through my ultra eager urge to lap up every rumour and story related to Ep VII in the months leading up to the release, I inadvertently managed to guess most of the plot before I watched it, including the big character death. So I think I'll try to keep a more laid back approach from now on.

Ironically, as everyone obviously knows the eventual outcome of the Rogue One story, I am really looking forward to it from a pure character/ story development point. But when ep. VIII starts to hit the news properly, I will try my very best to ignore it.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 23, 2016)

Watched for the third time at the cinema tonight. Love how this film has so many layers and you can appreciate each aspect on repeat viewing!


.


----------



## Pseudopsycho (Apr 23, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> people make fan theories up to see how weird yet compelling they can go. So far just the latter part achieved


Snoke is JarJar Binks after he attains his perfect form.

/Dragonball


----------



## krtek a houby (Apr 23, 2016)

starfish said:


> It was better on my second viewing. Still a bit in shock & left with a feeling that id seen it all before.



You had seen it all before; it was your second viewing


----------



## Kid_Eternity (Apr 25, 2016)

Blu Ray arrived three days after my third trip to the cinema to see it. Viewing number four tomorrow night!


.


----------



## T & P (May 5, 2016)

I've just watched all the extras on the Blu Ray. I had to buy a Blu Ray player to do so, but hey, I'd always wanted one.

The deleted scenes were disappointing; I was expecting to see a lot of what was alleged to have been left on the cutting room floor, up to half hour apparently. Instead there were about 2 minutes worth.

However the rest of the features were rather enjoyable. And it has to be said, the film looks crisp as fuck on blu ray.


----------



## bi0boy (May 5, 2016)

Gromit said:


> I mean Avatar actually. The only film made where the price of a 3D ticket is more than justified.
> 
> I was literally blown away by how good this film is in 3D.



That's the only film I've seen in 3D. I saw it 2D the week before and thought the 3D version was shit. The best thing about the 2D version was the colours and 3D just fucked them up.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 9, 2016)

T & P said:


> I've just watched all the extras on the Blu Ray. I had to buy a Blu Ray player to do so, but hey, I'd always wanted one.
> 
> The deleted scenes were disappointing; I was expecting to see a lot of what was alleged to have been left on the cutting room floor, up to half hour apparently. Instead there were about 2 minutes worth.
> 
> However the rest of the features were rather enjoyable. And it has to be said, the film looks crisp as fuck on blu ray.




I liked the mini docs but over all the extras felt very thin. Clearly there'll be better editions down the line with more. And agree re deleted scenes, one clear omission is Captain Phasma. She was meant to have more on screen time that was cut so where are her deleted scenes?


----------



## Lord Camomile (May 9, 2016)

Kid_Eternity said:


> I liked the mini docs but over all the extras felt very thin. Clearly there'll be better editions down the line with more. And agree re deleted scenes, one clear omission is Captain Phasma. She was meant to have more on screen time that was cut so where are her deleted scenes?


Soon to be seen in the Collector's Edition, or failing that the Ultimate Edition, or failing that the Anniversary Edition, or failing that the Ultimate Collector's Anniversary Edition.


----------



## Kid_Eternity (May 22, 2016)

Yup.

On another note I watched it for the forth time last week while flying over the Atlantic. Still awesome!


.


----------



## Vintage Paw (Jun 5, 2016)




----------



## Lord Camomile (Jun 5, 2016)

Well, that costume's just one massive spoiler...


----------



## Ranbay (Jun 5, 2016)

Where the fuck is the 3D version eh?


----------

