# Gaming addicted teen, College work suffering big time!



## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

My 16 year old son is addicted to PC gaming, WOW especially, and various others, also just spending hours on end skyping and or facebooking his mates. Normally this would not matter but he is now seriously behind on his 6th form school work, to such an extent he may well completely fail his AS exams and get booted out of college.  

Anyone have any ideas?


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## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 20, 2016)

Unplug the router or change the password on it.


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## weepiper (Feb 20, 2016)

Change the router password daily. Only give it to him when he's done an appropriate amount of work.


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> Unplug the router or change the password on it.





weepiper said:


> Change the router password daily. Only give it to him when he's done an appropriate amount of work.



Would you do this with a 16 year old?
His mum (He lives with his mum) has turned off the router sometimes, he goes ballistic ..


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## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 20, 2016)

I know when I was 16 the only thing that would stop me playing COD would be having no internet access. Might be wise to remove the SIM from his phone too.


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## Gromit (Feb 20, 2016)

Wow pretty much cost me a relationship. 

Others I knew had lost jobs over it or  bombed out of university. 

Others stayed unemployed because wow became more important than searching for work.

I advise cold turkey. None of this rationing shit. Wow is soul suckingly evil.


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## Gromit (Feb 20, 2016)

Play him the South Park Warcraft episode. 

It's horrendously close to the bone but true.


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 20, 2016)

Yeah, as Weeps says, make him earn his gaming time, whatever ratio you think is best. When work is done (and checked!) he can go online. And remind him it's only for about four more months.


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> I know when I was 16 the only thing that would stop me playing COD would be having no internet access. Might be wise to remove the SIM from his phone too.


He also has a phone and a kindle, he can facebook on his kindle...


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 20, 2016)

N


weltweit said:


> He also has a phone and a kindle, he can facebook on his kindle...


Not if it's in your pocket.


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

S☼I said:


> Not if it's in your pocket.


Part of the issue is that I am not there, his mum and I are separated, she will have to actually do whatever is decided on a daily basis .. she is already at her wits end.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 20, 2016)

This is difficult.   it's probably best  to consider the game  a symptom  rather than a cause however.

Extra credits did an interesting video on this. part two and three may be more interesting to you the first one is ,more about younger children


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

For some of his college work he needs to access the college's VLE, i.e. he needs to be able to go online. It should be manageable though, he can go on later.


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## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 20, 2016)

weltweit said:


> He also has a phone and a kindle, he can facebook on his kindle...



Not if there's no internet connection he can't!

Even if you say to him that he'll fail college and it could have knock on effects later in life he won't listen. he is 16. I never listened to any advice from people who knew better at that age.

Yet I suppose that is how you learn.


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> Not if there's no internet connection he can't!
> 
> Even if you say to him that he'll fail college and it could have knock on effects later in life he won't listen. he is 16. I never listened to any advice from people who knew better at that age.


So you believe we have to disable net access. I am not against it, if it has to be done to get him to do his school work then it has to be done.



Teenage Cthulhu said:


> Yet I suppose that is how you learn.


Painful lesson being chucked out of college to shelf stack, when he is a bright kid.


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

Gromit said:


> Play him the South Park Warcraft episode.
> 
> It's horrendously close to the bone but true.


What is this thing of which you write?


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## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 20, 2016)

Well I don't know your son but I do know my dad had to remove the main wire from the telephone socket. I was addicted and I had a problem.

Even now I find it very easy to zone out into my laptop and spend 10 hours on reddit.

Good luck, there's going to be fireworks!


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## cesare (Feb 20, 2016)

weltweit said:


> Painful lesson being chucked out of college to shelf stack, when he is a bright kid.


Oh, ha ha ha. Not trolling much, no.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 20, 2016)

It's over simplistic  to  just say turn off the internet.  sure maybe  some limniting will be needed  but just doing that  will turen you in to the enamy  and may stop you  talking with the person and working out  why  they are  spending so much time lost in games and the internet


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

I suppose I am worried that if there is no net connection at home he may just go back to a mates place and play there. The objective is to get him to go home to do his college work. He is very behind on one subject and it will take a lot of work to get back on track.


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

cesare said:


> Oh, ha ha ha. Not trolling much, no.


Sorry, genuinely don't know what you are on about.


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> It's over simplistic  to  just say turn off the internet.  sure maybe  some limniting will be needed  but just doing that  will turen you in to the enamy  and may stop you  talking with the person and working out  why  they are  spending so much time lost in games and the internet


Oh I know WOW is a compulsion. A couple of years ago we were with slightly older cousins and they asked my son what games he was playing, WOW he replied and they said ok kiss the next three years goodbye!


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## cesare (Feb 20, 2016)

weltweit said:


> Sorry, genuinely don't know what you are on about.


Well if you genuinely don't know you can safely ignore it eh.


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

cesare said:


> Well if you genuinely don't know you can safely ignore it eh.


If you don't explain yourself, I will have to.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 20, 2016)

weltweit said:


> Oh I know WOW is a compulsion. A couple of years ago we were with slightly older cousins and they asked my son what games he was playing, WOW he replied and they said ok kiss the next three years goodbye!



Any game that has that that kins of community pressure is  particularly bad


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## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 20, 2016)

weltweit said:


> If you don't explain yourself, I will have to.



They're saying that stacking shelves in a supermarket is no gauge of success or worth or academic ability.


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## cesare (Feb 20, 2016)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> They're saying that stacking shelves in a supermarket is no gauge of success or worth or academic ability.


Plus that anyone using supermarket jobs as a benchmark for success or worth or academic ability is a cunt; or a troll if they've been reading the other thread.


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## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 20, 2016)

There was a teacher at school who used to say to the class, "if you don't stick in you will work for the  council".

"But sir, aren't you employed by the council?"
"OUT!"


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## cesare (Feb 20, 2016)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> There was a teacher at school who used to say to the class, "if you don't stick in you will work for the  council".
> 
> "But sir, aren't you employed by the council?"
> "OUT!"


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> They're saying that stacking shelves in a supermarket is no gauge of success or worth or academic ability.





cesare said:


> Plus that anyone using supermarket jobs as a benchmark for success or worth or academic ability is a cunt; or a troll if they've been reading the other thread.


I have no idea about another thread. I think my kid is bright and *could* go places, I do think if he ends up on minimum wage at age 16 with no options, I and his mum will have somehow failed him.
He got good GCSEs, but now things seem to have gone pair shaped.


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## keybored (Feb 20, 2016)

You're wary of carrying out some basic discipline for his own good in case he "goes ballistic", you're already failing him.


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## spanglechick (Feb 20, 2016)

It may not be the worst thing in the world for him to get kicked out, and have to reapply for year twelve again next autumn.  Sixth form is not a one shot deal... It's not unusual to have a second stab at it.


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

keybored said:


> You're wary of carrying out some basic discipline for his own good in case he "goes ballistic", you're already failing him.


I am willing to consider it but, it won't be me having to implement it because I don't live every day with him. His mum will have to do it. She is capable to do it although it may be difficult at first.


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

spanglechick said:


> It may not be the worst thing in the world for him to get kicked out, and have to reapply for year twelve again next autumn.  Sixth form is not a one shot deal... It's not unusual to have a second stab at it.


Yes, that is true, it may not be the end of the world, but he considers kids a year below him to be on another planet  I doubt he would be comfortable dropping a year.


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## Gromit (Feb 20, 2016)

weltweit said:


> What is this thing of which you write?


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## Gromit (Feb 20, 2016)

Google "wow ruined my life" and you'll have access to more cautionary tales than you can shake a stick at by the way.


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## spanglechick (Feb 20, 2016)

weltweit said:


> Yes, that is true, it may not be the end of the world, but he considers kids a year below him to be on another planet  I doubt he would be comfortable dropping a year.


That's kind of the point.   A practical lesson in cause and effect wrt delayed gratification, adult responsibility etc might be the best way to learn.


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## weltweit (Feb 20, 2016)

Gromit said:


>



Gawd, if I show him that he will never stop!


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## fuck seals (Feb 20, 2016)

Gromit said:


> Google "wow ruined my life" and you'll have access to more cautionary tales than you can shake a stick at by the way.



too fecking right.

i speak from bitter experience.

blizzard - the developers of wow - spent & spend hundreds of thousands of dollars every year ensuring that their product has every psychological trick employed & baked into the game design such that the players will never leave easily.  community involvement, new 'jam tomorrow' expansions, overlapping mini-goals, the illusion of progression, visible public recognition, dependency on group involvement - with associated peer pressure to continue, escapism, an immersive world, eye candy, dot dot dot.  subscribers are like lab rats smashing the button for the next bit of sugar ...

you name it they do it.  & they should: it's a subscription model & they need your €30/ month to continue.

it's a seductive and insidious thing

i lost 2-3 years to that crack & arguably two high-salaried jobs, and know many others who can tell that tale.  incidentally i made some fabulous friends too: none of us - even ten years later - have a good word to say about that obsessive misery, or how not-very-easy it was to kill off the 40hr/ week habit.

there is a command in wow ("/played") which shows the amount of logged on active time that you've spent on a particular character of yours.  when a friend of mine's /played was *more than 1 year*, i sent him a picture of 80 boxes with one crossed out.

gaming itself isn't a huge issue - god knows my nephews stuff enough time in to FIFA16 - but there is a crucial difference between dip-in/ dip-out games, and the time commitment that wow demands.  & that time commitment is especially damaging & appealing to some brains.  mine included.

http://www.kirjastot.fi/sites/default/files/content/Seay_Dissertation.pdf <- fascinating read
Wowaholics Anonymous | Quit WoW Addiction, Win at Life


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## Gromit (Feb 20, 2016)

I had some great friends in game too. That's part of the trap. 

I dread to think what my /played was. 
I worked 37 hours per week flexi time for my job. 
I think I nearly doubled that in wow playing time. I spent more time online than working. 

When I was elsewhere I'd be itching to get home to play. So every other week Sunday lunch with the folks (and gf) got shorter and shorter.

That's why I ditched PC gaming and switched to consoles where games tend to lend themselves more to casual gaming.


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## fuck seals (Feb 20, 2016)

Gromit said:


> I had some great friends in game too. That's part of the trap.
> 
> I dread to think what my /played was.
> I worked 37 hours per week flexi time for my job.
> ...



i hear you.  i probably can still walk the whole of BRD with my eyes shut ...


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## tiki (Feb 21, 2016)

Isn't WOW subscription based. Who's paying the sub. Cut off the funding maybe should soon cut off the problem. Like others have said, gaming can become a real addiction. I go through phases of it myself.


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## LeslieB (Feb 21, 2016)

weltweit said:


> I have no idea about another thread. I think my kid is bright and *could* go places, I do think if he ends up on minimum wage at age 16 with no options, I and his mum will have somehow failed him.



Being on minimum wage at 16 doesn't mean he will stay on it, nor does it mean he can't go back to uni later with an access course.

It's an alternative to what others are proposing, but maybe let him get a job or apprenticeship and if he wants to spend his spare time playing video games then that will be less of an issue because his work and leisure time will be more clearly demarcated. 

This is a phase and he *will* grow out of it, not that that is much comfort right now.


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## weltweit (Feb 21, 2016)

LeslieB said:


> Being on minimum wage at 16 doesn't mean he will stay on it, nor does it mean he can't go back to uni later with an access course.


Yes I suppose I should realise this, it is quite easy to think "he is failing - we are failing - he is doomed!" when that really isn't the case.

In many ways we have been stupid, he did well in his GCSEs but then chose, with our support, 4 A levels 3 of which he had not done at GCSE. I think in hindsight that was a mistake.



LeslieB said:


> It's an alternative to what others are proposing, but maybe let him get a job or apprenticeship and if he wants to spend his spare time playing video games then that will be less of an issue because his work and leisure time will be more clearly demarcated.


He has worked, he did work experience at one point and had a proper holiday job another time. He enjoyed it and got on with his colleagues.

I had a long conversation with him today, mainly about the subject he is struggling in the most, and it was helpful. I made the point that if he doesn't pick up his game, where this subject is concerned, the internet may be switched off which he does not like.



LeslieB said:


> This is a phase and he *will* grow out of it, not that that is much comfort right now.


Sure hope so, he has been playing WOW for I think 5 years now.


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## LeslieB (Feb 22, 2016)

Do you think WoW specifically is the problem? ie if he stopped playing that he would spend the time on college work- as opposed to other distractions?

I don't know much about WoW, my time wasted gaming was in the 8 bit days!



weltweit said:


> Yes I suppose I should realise this, it is quite easy to think "he is failing - we are failing - he is doomed!" when that really isn't the case.


Indeed. I wasn't suggesting he *should* leave college and get a minimum wage job, just that it isn't the end of the world if he does- just look at all the unemployed graduates out there. Most 'first jobs' are NMW tbh- it doesn't mean the holders stay in NMW jobs- most get a better job, or get promoted, or he could leave and do an access or foundation course and go to uni later.

What he *must* avoid is scraping into uni at 18 and then messing that up- because that is to some extent a "one shot deal". And at uni you or mum won't be there to switch off the internet!


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## bimble (Feb 22, 2016)

There's a rehab bootcamp in China for this problem, especially for teenaged boys addicted to WOW. I don't mean to make a joke of it (it's not funny at all) but watched this a while ago.
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/20/opinion/chinas-web-junkies.html
I think we'll be hearing more and more about this sort of thing, maybe there already are detox centres here along similar lines.


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## mauvais (Feb 22, 2016)

LeslieB said:


> Being on minimum wage at 16 doesn't mean he will stay on it, *nor does it mean he can't go back to uni later with an access course*.


Whilst this is true, it's somewhat swimming against the tide (what their peers are doing, jobs, relationships, baggage) and when the person concerned already has problems with getting work done, it's probably not a sound fallback, IMO.



LeslieB said:


> It's an alternative to what others are proposing, but maybe let him get a job or apprenticeship and if he wants to spend his spare time playing video games then that will be less of an issue because his work and leisure time will be more clearly demarcated.
> 
> This is a phase and he *will* grow out of it, not that that is much comfort right now.


These things are also _potentially _true but the latter is certainly not guaranteed. I know people in their 30s who still behave like this. I also know people who could have easily gone to uni, didn't on this kind of basis, and are only just finding their feet over a decade later. We all have different ideas about what's valuable but I suspect that if you asked them, it'd be a regret that leaves little to show for it.


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## existentialist (Feb 22, 2016)

weltweit said:


> My 16 year old son is addicted to PC gaming, WOW especially, and various others, also just spending hours on end skyping and or facebooking his mates. Normally this would not matter but he is now seriously behind on his 6th form school work, to such an extent he may well completely fail his AS exams and get booted out of college.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?


If he really is "addicted", then the question probably needs to be - what is the problem that this addiction is the solution to?

I suspect that banning or otherwise preventing him from playing games is likely only to harden his position and make it more difficult to unravel what's going on, not to mention putting you into the role of enforcer/policeman rather than a more caring one.

In your shoes, I'd be trying to open up a discussion between equals, exploring with him what he gets out of the gaming (beyond "I enjoy it"), and what it helps him avoid. He may well not be happy in college, or (and I say this as a therapist who does some work with college students) is feeling like he has made the wrong choices/isn't getting on well with the subjects...in other words, the "addiction" is a compensatory activity aimed at making himself feel good at a time when it all feels fairly crap elsewhere.

Absolutely *don't* ban him from WOW, until he recognises he has a problem and starts asking you for help to deal with it. In the meantime, the best thing you can do is to set aside your panic about his future - if he's smart, he'll find a future anyway - and work at getting alongside him and achieving some kind of supportive alliance together. When he doesn't feel like you're judging him, policing him, or adopting some or other role that he perceives as hostile to his (present) interests, there's a chance that the pair of you will be able to work constructively together. Lower the boom on him, and you will just be another oppressor, out to make his life hard, and from which WoW is the only escape.

In my work, I often get very interesting results with what we tend to call "paradoxical interventions" - ie, doing the opposite, for good reasons, of what is expected of us. So I might point out that the kid who truants all the time (and is getting nothing but grief from everyone) is actually adopting a creative solution to a problem - "...so, what might that problem be?", and be able to engage in a constructive dialogue which, not unusually, makes the problem "just go away".

It may be that the solution in this case turns out to be him dropping out of college. That may feel enough like a catastrophe to him (not that he's likely to admit that at the moment) that he's ready to work constructively to avoid it, or at least find a decent Plan B, but all of the policing stuff will conveniently prevent him from having to address that - he can just focus on how fucking unfair it is (from his point of view) that as a nearly-adult, he's being babied by his parents, etc.

Sometimes we have to fail hard just to realise what it is we really want.


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## LeslieB (Feb 22, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Whilst this is true, it's somewhat swimming against the tide (what their peers are doing, jobs, relationships, baggage) and when the person concerned already has problems with getting work done, it's probably not a sound fallback, IMO.
> .



Just to stress, access/foundation is aimed at 21+. It's not a intended as a fallback for someone who has just failed A levels. But it is a possibilty for someone who got a job at 16/17 and later decides they want to go to uni at eg 22 or 23.

Not that going to uni is the only possible route to success in life of course.


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## mauvais (Feb 22, 2016)

LeslieB said:


> Just to stress, access/foundation is aimed at 21+. It's not a intended as a fallback for someone who has just failed A levels. It is a possibilty for someone who got a job at 16/17 and later decides they want to go to uni at eg 22 or 23.


Yeah I know, and I know a few people that are successfully doing that. The point is that whilst going to uni at 18 is a pretty easy path as long as it is available in the first place, doing it later is not. At that point your social group and demographic aren't doing it, you're probably getting paid with a reasonably good disposable income that you'd have to give up, you possibly have more ties than you had at 18, and you'll be an atypical graduate when you do complete it. Not that any of this should be a barrier to someone with the determination to do it, but then that's not where we start from in the OP's scenario.



LeslieB said:


> Not that going to uni is the only possible route to success in life of course.


Indeed not. As before though, it is one of the simpler paths with one of the better risk/reward balances, and not just academically or in career/pay terms afterwards; there's a certain in-built personal development element. I do realise there are other legitimate paths through life that shouldn't be downplayed, but at the same time, if you have the opportunity to follow the conventional path, you should have a very good reason not to take it, and wanting to play games all day is probably not it.


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## LeslieB (Feb 22, 2016)

Good post Mauvais.


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## existentialist (Feb 22, 2016)

mauvais said:


> Yeah I know, and I know a few people that are successfully doing that. The point is that whilst going to uni at 18 is a pretty easy path as long as it is available in the first place, doing it later is not. At that point your social group and demographic aren't doing it, you're probably getting paid with a reasonably good disposable income that you'd have to give up, you possibly have more ties than you had at 18, and you'll be an atypical graduate when you do complete it. Not that any of this should be a barrier to someone with the determination to do it, but then that's not where we start from in the OP's scenario.
> 
> Indeed not. As before though, it is one of the simpler paths with one of the better risk/reward balances, and not just academically or in career/pay terms afterwards; there's a certain in-built personal development element. I do realise there are other legitimate paths through life that shouldn't be downplayed, but at the same time, if you have the opportunity to follow the conventional path, you should have a very good reason not to take it, and wanting to play games all day is probably not it.


I completely agree with all of this, but there's a much bigger problem to address first.

That problem is that nobody can effectively *make* someone do something against their will.

You can hope that the other person will see the sense of what you're saying, but as anyone who's had to deal with a teenager will know, that can often be impossible. And, even where it is possible, you end up forcing someone to reluctantly - and often truculently - conform to your wishes, and unhappily going through the motions of something they haven't really bought into.

We have moved into a political climate where coercian and enforcement are the bedrock of much of what we do, whether it's benefits claimants, immigration, anti-social behaviour...or education. There is a general perception, which is now largely true, that unless we jump through the hoops, all bets are off. I think that climate is reflected in the way that we deal with young people who, by their very nature, tend to push back harder the harder they are pushed. Often to their own detriment, and often with unhappy or unfortunate results later on.

It's frequently seen as "soft" not simply - almost on principle - to oppose what someone wants to do, on the basis that if they're not being made to do it, it's not worth doing. The reality is that we end up investing vast amounts of energy (and time, money, etc) forcing people down paths which, even though we might "know" (in reality, think) are best for them, are not perceived by them as being in their interests. Can we change that perception simply by browbeating them into accepting our point of view? With adults, that can work to some degree, though I'd still argue that it's not the best approach; with adolescents, who are already programmed to be rejecting of authoritarian positions, it's a forlorn hope. The best you are likely to get is a grudging acceptance and half-hearted compliance, and you'll probably be policing the situation for a long time to come.


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## mauvais (Feb 22, 2016)

I can see where you're coming from, and I certainly agree with it in an adult context. But, and it's difficult, I think it has to be balanced against the problem of how teenagers cannot - in part, physically cannot - make good judgements about their future. Parts of the brain that deal with risk supposedly aren't fully formed until 25, for instance, and there's almost certainly (inherently) no life experience of long term opportunity cost. So what else can you do but exert authority? Which you pretty much _can _do as a parent, within some parameters and with varying degrees of success.

It's not ideal but grudging, half hearted compliance might be enough to carry you through to self-realisation, acceptance and personal buy-in. It's not the preferred route by any means, is it, but you have to balance the imperfections of _that _against the stuff I said earlier, that things get difficult if you miss that boat.


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## existentialist (Feb 22, 2016)

mauvais said:


> I can see where you're coming from, and I certainly agree with it in an adult context. But, and it's difficult, I think it has to be balanced against the problem of how teenagers cannot - in part, physically cannot - make good judgements about their future. Parts of the brain that deal with risk supposedly aren't fully formed until 25, for instance, and there's almost certainly (inherently) no life experience of long term opportunity cost. So what else can you do but exert authority? Which you pretty much _can _do as a parent, within some parameters and with varying degrees of success.
> 
> It's not ideal but grudging, half hearted compliance might be enough to carry you through to self-realisation, acceptance and personal buy-in. It's not the preferred route by any means, is it, but you have to balance the imperfections of _that _against the stuff I said earlier, that things get difficult if you miss that boat.


Well, yes - you can't leave a vacuum. But I'd always think that friendly guidance - even *firm* friendly guidance - is going to be better than enforcement.

After all, one of the life lessons we are trying to teach young people is that they will, one day, have to make these decisions for themselves. They need to develop the emotional muscles to be able to do that, and if we simply insist (leaving aside for the moment the likely success of that) that they do things a certain way, all we are really teaching them is a kind of binary conform-or-die lesson which may achieve compliance in the short term, but leaves them without the skills to be able to make the judgement calls we might be making on their behalf when we're not availabe to do that any more.

One of the techniques used in working with addictions is motivational interviewing (MI). A key mantra of that approach is to "roll with the resistance" - ie., to let the client (the "addict") explore for themselves, with you, their reasons for not changing (incidentally, the best suicide interventions do exactly the same thing - have the client explore, in depth, all their reasons for killing themselves). The argument behind this is that, if the client is given the space to think about the issue freely, rather than being bombarded with instructions to do this or that, they will be able to come to a solution that they can own, and which is theirs. I think that encapsulates your point about helping adolescents make their decisions: the only difference is that, from my point of view, it is far better being done collaboratively.

There's a risk: they might not. That might be because they're already in the truculent resistance stage where they're happy to cut their nose off to spite their face, so long as it means they're not complying with something they feel is being imposed on them. Or it might be because, at that point, they simply don't _want_ to change. That's when we need to lean back (slightly) and take the pressure off.

To go back to the OP's challenge - it's very likely that the college has some kind of counselling provision. Rather than try to solve this problem by yourselves, it may be better to work on encouraging this chap to consider exploring what's going on with an independent third party, like the college counsellor. If not that, then there may be a tutor or coach whom he trusts, and who he might be encouraged to go and speak to about what's going on for him. The hard bit here, for parents, is letting go and trusting that someone else (including the OP's son) has the ability and resources to be able to solve the problem without the parents' direct involvement.

I have seen this kind of approach pay dividends; on the other side of the equation, I've seen what happens if it's not done: I've just had a message from a client who was in college, but doing what they felt were the wrong subjects, and who succeeded in getting thrown out of college for possession of cannabis - something I suspect was, at least unconsciously, engineered by them to "solve the problem". In the process, their phone and laptop have been confiscated (their call to me to say they couldn't continue to see me was in considerable distress and made secretively from another phone when their parents were out). That client has achieved what they wanted - they're no longer studying subjects they didn't want to do. The cost of that decision is high, as they're unlikely to be able to return to college again, and I firmly believe that the situation was vastly escalated by the parents' decision to take the enforcement route - which has clearly failed - rather than engage with their offspring to address the underlying problems. There would still have been room for firm guidance, but in the absence of this level of coercion (or, ideally, of any), the student might have been looking at a wider range of options.

And we were doing some good work, and making a bit of progress towards more constructive solutions - all now lost.


----------



## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 22, 2016)

Would you like syrup or nutella with your waffle?


----------



## Ranbay (Feb 22, 2016)

Gromit said:


> Wow pretty much cost me a relationship.
> 
> Others I knew had lost jobs over it or  bombed out of university.
> 
> ...



There was a great documentary call WOW stole my life or something like that, cant seem to find it now


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## LeslieB (Feb 22, 2016)

Ranbay said:


> There was a great documentary call WOW stole my life or something like that, cant seem to find it now



This one?


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## Ranbay (Feb 22, 2016)

LeslieB said:


> This one?




Not that one, but same kind of thing. it was ruined my life or stole my life...


----------



## existentialist (Feb 22, 2016)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> Would you like syrup or nutella with your waffle?


Try not to be a cunt, there's a good chap.

ETA: alternatively, perhaps you have something constructive to contribute?


----------



## weltweit (Feb 22, 2016)

We aren't at the moment going to cut off the internet although I signposted to him that I would be prepared to do this, his mum is not so keen. He is going to try to persuade a friend to go to a catch up class in the subject he is doing badly in, it seems he was embarrassed to go on his own, if it comes off that will be a small but positive outcome. He has also (as he has done before) proposed that he will do more work on this subject, time will tell if that materialises.

As to underlying causes, I don't think there is anything that interesting going on, he simply finds this particular subject harder than he had anticipated, is quite lazy about getting stuck in and finds using revision books, although effective, boring. This is counterbalanced by the fact that he enjoys World of Warcraft a lot, is fully hooked into all the reasons for playing, including social ones, and that makes playing rather than working all the more compelling.


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## sim667 (Feb 22, 2016)

spanglechick said:


> It may not be the worst thing in the world for him to get kicked out, and have to reapply for year twelve again next autumn.  Sixth form is not a one shot deal... It's not unusual to have a second stab at it.



They'd have to pay for his courses second time round now I think.


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## sim667 (Feb 22, 2016)

weltweit said:


> We aren't at the moment going to cut off the internet although I signposted to him that I would be prepared to do this, his mum is not so keen. He is going to try to persuade a friend to go to a catch up class in the subject he is doing badly in, it seems he was embarrassed to go on his own, if it comes off that will be a small but positive outcome. He has also (as he has done before) proposed that he will do more work on this subject, time will tell if that materialises.
> 
> As to underlying causes, I don't think there is anything that interesting going on, he simply finds this particular subject harder than he had anticipated, is quite lazy about getting stuck in and finds using revision books, although effective, boring. This is counterbalanced by the fact that he enjoys World of Warcraft a lot, is fully hooked into all the reasons for playing, including social ones, and that makes playing rather than working all the more compelling.



Is it just one course that is suffering, or a number of courses?

You may just find that if its one course, then letting him change that course might be a possibility? I stuck to doing computer science at a-level, didn't understand any of it, stopped going, and then flunked the exam at the end...... I lost out on an entire a-level because I should have just asked to switch computer science to IT.

You could just make the latency terrible on you internet connection, so it puts him off playing..... there's nothing more frustrating than a game that lags.


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## LeslieB (Feb 22, 2016)

sim667 said:


> You could just make the latency terrible on you internet connection, so it puts him off playing..... there's nothing more frustrating than a game that lags.


Can you do that? So he still has an otherwise usable internet connection but can't online game?


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 22, 2016)

LeslieB said:


> Can you do that? So he still has an otherwise usable internet connection but can't online game?



Yes if your router allows port blocking. I belive most do.


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## weltweit (Feb 22, 2016)

sim667 said:


> Is it just one course that is suffering, or a number of courses?


Just one, computing. He was also doing maths, the only A level he chose which he had done a GCSE in, but he was bounced off maths because his results were not good enough. Our concern is that this might also happen with computing, leaving him with only two which is not permitted by the college so he would have to drop out. The other two A levels he is doing he is doing ok in.



sim667 said:


> You may just find that if its one course, then letting him change that course might be a possibility? I stuck to doing computer science at a-level, didn't understand any of it, stopped going, and then flunked the exam at the end...... I lost out on an entire a-level because I should have just asked to switch computer science to IT.



Might be a bit late to change now, but it might be a conversation we could or should have with him and the college. He is definitely taken aback by just how hard computing is, given that he didn't do it for GCSE.



sim667 said:


> You could just make the latency terrible on you internet connection, so it puts him off playing..... there's nothing more frustrating than a game that lags.


No guarantee that he would switch to college work though, he could just spend more time with his mates or play on his X box


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## LeslieB (Feb 22, 2016)

weltweit said:


> No guarantee that he would switch to college work though, he could just spend more time with his mates or play on his X box



Yes I did think that. And while (IMHO) spending time with real world mates is much better than online gaming, it would be no better in terms of improving his grades.


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## sim667 (Feb 22, 2016)

weltweit said:


> Just one, computing. He was also doing maths, the only A level he chose which he had done a GCSE in, but he was bounced off maths because his results were not good enough. Our concern is that this might also happen with computing, leaving him with only two which is not permitted by the college so he would have to drop out. The other two A levels he is doing he is doing ok in.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ah he sounds very similar to me with the computing then....... I chose to do it because I though IT would be too easy, and it focuses on business process which I thought would be really boring. Computer science is much more difficult than it first sounds, if he's not interested in it, he's not going to become interested in it, and unless its something that you're interested in, you're never going to learn it. I would seriously speak to the college about a change. They might have late starting courses too, which he could do instead. I basically ended up bunking my computing lessons for two years, and then went into the exam and slept. I got a U unsurprisingly, and it was a total waste of my time and the colleges time.

I would try and organise some time to go in with him and discuss options, it doesn't hurt to see what other options he may have, and its unlikely the college will want to lose him now, as it is after the 12 week grace period where students can be withdrawn and moved about without funding effects (we had a 12 week period at our place, it may be different at others). A transfer to another course would be preferable, as I don't think he'll be funded if he drops out and starts again, you/he would have to pay.


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## kalidarkone (Feb 22, 2016)

I'm pretty sure I posted a similar thing back in 2006 when masterdk1 was 12. I took the wow cd rom and snapped it in half. I thought he was going to hit me! Then he went upstairs and half an hour later he came down and said ' thanks I feel like I have my life back'
He never played it again. But then he never got that deep into it. I stopped paying subs for games.

16 is tough for them and parents, but stay strong. Between 14 and 18 were the most stressful years for me.


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## sim667 (Feb 22, 2016)

I was addicted to action quake in a big way from about 13-15..... at 16 I discovered pubs and going to skate parks.....


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## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 22, 2016)

kalidarkone said:


> I'm pretty sure I posted a similar thing back in 2006 when masterdk1 was 12. I took the wow cd rom and snapped it in half. I thought he was going to hit me! Then he went upstairs and half an hour later he came down and said ' thanks I feel like I have my life back'
> He never played it again. But then he never got that deep into it. I stopped paying subs for games.
> 
> 16 is tough for them and parents, but stay strong. Between 14 and 18 were the most stressful years for me.



Good post.


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## kalidarkone (Feb 22, 2016)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> Good post.


Thanks. 
Despite all kids being different - sometimes it's useful to hear from someone whose kid has been through a similar thing and come out the other end.

My ex is going through this with his 17 yr old and it is very stressful- but there is something shifting, tho early days and also other deep and complex issues involved.
The important thing is that you and your ex are a united front on this issue and applying the same boundaries - it's very easy to feel very on your own with it as a parent- specially if you are the main carer.


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## Pingu (Feb 22, 2016)

a bit late to the party here but..

i love my computer games. i can spend hours on BF4/guild wars etc.

i wil not touch WoW though as if i do i know i wil kiss goodbye to many months of my life.

what makes WoW so attractive is the social aspect of it, sadly this is also what destroys your free time/time you should be doing stuff.

speaking as a gamer i can only say that the ONLY way to do this is to stop the net connection or some other form of coercion so that college work gets done before gaming. there are going to be fireworks - unavoidable.


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## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 22, 2016)

kalidarkone said:


> Thanks.
> Despite all kids being different - sometimes it's useful to hear from someone whose kid has been through a similar thing and come out the other end.
> 
> My ex is going through this with his 17 yr old and it is very stressful- but there is something shifting, tho early days and also other deep and complex issues involved.
> The important thing is that you and your ex are a united front on this issue and applying the same boundaries - it's very easy to feel very on your own with it as a parent- specially if you are the main carer.





Pingu said:


> speaking as a gamer i can only say that the ONLY way to do this is to stop the net connection or some other form of coercion so that college work gets done before gaming. there are going to be fireworks - unavoidable.




It is more or less what happened to me, it is not that long ago either. As posted earlier my dad had to physically cut the cable supplying internet to our home: as drastic as snapping a CD. It is the digital equivalent of a clip across the ear!

Going down the road of counselling and therapy is totally over the top and if my parents went down that road I'd rebel even more and probably think there was something "wrong" with me. It also reminds me how fast people are to label children, push them into therapy or worse medication. Sometimes it is needed but only in very extreme cases like the Chinese teenagers mentioned earlier.

It is a bit like taking the car keys of your 17 year old for driving the family car like a dick. Not a bean bag in sight!


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## maomao (Feb 22, 2016)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> It is more or less what happened to me, it is not that long ago either. As posted earlier my dad had to physically cut the cable supplying internet to our home: as drastic as snapping a CD. It is the digital equivalent of a clip across the ear!
> 
> Going down the road of counselling and therapy is totally over the top and if my parents went down that road I'd rebel even more and probably think there was something "wrong" with me. It also reminds me how fast people are to label children, push them into therapy or worse medication. Sometimes it is needed but only in very extreme cases like the Chinese teenagers mentioned earlier.
> 
> It is a bit like taking the car keys of your 17 year old for driving the family car like a dick. Not a bean bag in sight!


Professional therapists have a vested interest in promoting therapy as the only reasonable cure for just about anything. Not just a financial/career interest but because they've invested a lot in training and in themselves. I certainly don't think therapy should be the first response. A 16 year old is still pretty much a child and his parents have every right to try and restrict his access to something that is contributing to behavioural problems as a first attempt at a solution. 

Who's paying for the WoW subscription?


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## weltweit (Feb 22, 2016)

maomao said:


> .. Who's paying for the WoW subscription?


His mum ..


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## existentialist (Feb 22, 2016)

maomao said:


> Professional therapists have a vested interest in promoting therapy as the only reasonable cure for just about anything. Not just a financial/career interest but because they've invested a lot in training and in themselves. I certainly don't think therapy should be the first response. A 16 year old is still pretty much a child and his parents have every right to try and restrict his access to something that is contributing to behavioural problems as a first attempt at a solution.
> 
> Who's paying for the WoW subscription?


If you think about that for more than a microsecond, you'd realise that no professional therapist barrelling around on a web-based site is likely to gain _anything_ by touting for business in the way you - and mateyboy upthread a bit - are suggesting.

Or perhaps I'm just doing it to big up the profession, in the hope that if enough therapists spam forum threads, we'll somehow drum up tons of business. 

The advice I gave was given on the basis of my own experience and training, nothing more than that. If Urban has really reached a point where it isn't even possible for a professional with relevant experience to offer an opinion and a viewpoint without people like you jumping to the conclusion that it's all about self-interest and feathering our own nests, we've got to a pretty sorry state.

Although, of course, I'm well aware that far from everybody on Urban is a nob, nor do they all go around assuming that everyone else is, either.

Nor, for that matter, are they all mind-readers, as you clearly consider yourself to be, given how informed you seem to feel you are about my motives for posting.


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## maomao (Feb 22, 2016)

existentialist said:


> If you think about that for more than a microsecond, you'd realise that no professional therapist barrelling around on a web-based site is likely to gain _anything_ by touting for business in the way you - and mateyboy upthread a bit - are suggesting.
> 
> Or perhaps I'm just doing it to big up the profession, in the hope that if enough therapists spam forum threads, we'll somehow drum up tons of business.
> 
> ...


I wasn't suggesting that you had an immediate financial interest in suggesting therapy was the answer to Weltweit's problems and it's typically disingenuous of you to suggest so.


----------



## existentialist (Feb 22, 2016)

maomao said:


> I wasn't suggesting that you had an immediate financial interest in suggesting therapy was the answer to Weltweit's problems and it's typically disingenuous of you to suggest so.


That is how *you* chose to read it. I was offering advice on the basis of what I know something about: I am hardly in a position to offer advice on some area I am not knowledgeable in. 

Nice little go with the "typically disingenuous" , incidentally. I have no idea what the beef you're carrying is, but it's pretty fucking pointless.


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## maomao (Feb 22, 2016)

existentialist said:


> That is how *you* chose to read it. I was offering advice on the basis of what I know something about: I am hardly in a position to offer advice on some area I am not knowledgeable in.



And that's your benefit right there Mr big potato expert. I have no specific beef, I don't normally bother with you because you're a windbag and I won't be continuing the conversation.


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## catinthehat (Feb 22, 2016)

I have only skimmed so this may have been suggested but in almost every case I have been involved in where a students parent/parents put the tutors on the same page about something concerning them improvements were made.  Generally a decent bunch of tutors will have a good idea of an individuals level of work and will see a decline when and if it occurs and will be aware of who has done their revision or non in class work. They will generally have a word and sometimes a bit of a story is woven to cover embarrassment or buy time or because they think the true reason is over trivial.  If the tutor is told something like 'I have to look after a sick grandfather' they may be think that support means to be lenient for example extend deadlines.  This can mean that no consequences occur and so the behavior continues.  In several cases I can think of I had students who gave me untrue reasons so the support given was incorrect.  If parent who have concerns speak to tutors there is more chance of correct support being given - which might just be something as simple as insisting on deadlines being met or work failing.  With the need to satisfy retention and pass targets colleges and schools can be more lenient in these things than they may have been in the past.  In terms of 'addiction' from a laypersons observation of a substantial number of students who had the same patterns as you describe they did as others have said and grew out of it in the main.


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## existentialist (Feb 22, 2016)

maomao said:


> And that's your benefit right there Mr big potato expert. I have no specific beef, I don't normally bother with you because you're a windbag and I won't be continuing the conversation.


That's two of us who will be a great deal happier, then.


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## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 22, 2016)

weltweit said:


> His mum ..



Tell her she'd be £30 a month better off


----------



## weltweit (Feb 22, 2016)

Teenage Cthulhu said:


> Tell her she'd be £30 a month better off


Is it really £30.00 ? I thought it was more like £10.00 !!


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## Teenage Cthulhu (Feb 22, 2016)

It could be tenner a month - to be honest I don't know how much it is.

Google says:

"As such, we want to give everyone a heads-up that we will shortly be adjusting the pound sterling subscription price of World of Warcraft." Following 13th November, these will be the new prices of recurring subscriptions (with the old in parenthesis): 30 Days - *£9.99* (*£8.99*) 90 Days - £28.17 (£25.17)17 Aug 2014


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## weltweit (Feb 22, 2016)

catinthehat said:


> I have only skimmed so this may have been suggested but in almost every case I have been involved in where a students parent/parents put the tutors on the same page about something concerning them improvements were made.  Generally a decent bunch of tutors will have a good idea of an individuals level of work and will see a decline when and if it occurs and will be aware of who has done their revision or non in class work. They will generally have a word and sometimes a bit of a story is woven to cover embarrassment or buy time or because they think the true reason is over trivial.  If the tutor is told something like 'I have to look after a sick grandfather' they may be think that support means to be lenient for example extend deadlines.  This can mean that no consequences occur and so the behavior continues.  In several cases I can think of I had students who gave me untrue reasons so the support given was incorrect.  If parent who have concerns speak to tutors there is more chance of correct support being given - which might just be something as simple as insisting on deadlines being met or work failing.  With the need to satisfy retention and pass targets colleges and schools can be more lenient in these things than they may have been in the past.  In terms of 'addiction' from a laypersons observation of a substantial number of students who had the same patterns as you describe they did as others have said and grew out of it in the main.


It might well be time to have a meeting with his teachers of some kind. However his mum has been trying to open up communications with his computing teachers and they seem to have been ignoring her which is quite a pain!


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## weltweit (Feb 27, 2016)

I have learnt tonight that World of Warcraft may have parental controls!

Why did none of you mention this to me? why?


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## sim667 (Mar 1, 2016)

weltweit said:


> I have learnt tonight that World of Warcraft may have parental controls!
> 
> Why did none of you mention this to me? why?



Probably because none of us play world of warcraft.

The only MMPORG I've ever fancied trying is EVE online


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## Pingu (Mar 2, 2016)

this does sound like exactly what is needed.  Self Policing: Parental Controls and More (WoW and others) | On-line Gamers Anonymous®


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## D'wards (Mar 2, 2016)

sim667 said:


> Probably because none of us play world of warcraft.


 If we did we probably wouldn't be on here now, but playing away.

Wonder if U75 has lost any to WoW?


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## sim667 (Mar 2, 2016)

D'wards said:


> Wonder if U75 has lost any to WoW?



Let them forever be known as the fallen.


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## mwgdrwg (Mar 2, 2016)

weltweit said:


> I have learnt tonight that World of Warcraft may have parental controls!
> 
> Why did none of you mention this to me? why?



No 'may' about it. It does! https://us.battle.net/account/parental-controls/index.html

A note about parental controls...we have an Xbox and Microsoft have great controls to limit content. The key is in creating a _child account_ rather than an adult one at the start. The same account is then used on our Windows 10 PC to log in, and as the parent I get a weekly usage mail which shows hours used, applications used, and any suspicious activity.

Family - Microsoft Help
Set limits for your child - Microsoft Help


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## Cid (Mar 6, 2016)

I used to play WoW.

Er... I'd recommend deleting his account.


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## weltweit (Mar 6, 2016)

weltweit said:


> It might well be time to have a meeting with his teachers of some kind. However his mum has been trying to open up communications with his computing teachers and they seem to have been ignoring her which is quite a pain!


There is a parents evening coming up, his mum is determined to use this opportunity, I am thinking whether I can get up for it also.


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## weltweit (Mar 9, 2016)

I didn't really want to read this:

Video games may actually have positive effects on young children, study finds


----------



## mrs quoad (Mar 15, 2016)

weltweit said:


> I didn't really want to read this:
> 
> Video games may actually have positive effects on young children, study finds


6-11 year olds.

Where children who 'played video games for more than 5h per week' (only 20% / one in five of them) were classified as the top / most intensively-playing group.

And in a cross-sectional survey, which is completely unable to attribute causality - i.e., it could be hypothesised that children from high socio-economic groups are likely to have greater access to computers. It could also be hypothesised that bored children play more games, and intelligent children get more bored.

Long story short: extrapolating this to your son's situation would be one hell of a long reach. And if he isn't outperforming the other kids in his year, then it's... clearly... inapplicable. Because it isn't applying. Because he isn't outperforming the other kids in his year.

Edit: 'Having a less educated, single, inactive, or psychologically distressed mother decreased time spent playing video games.'

I'm going to conjecture that it might be pretty hard to adequately control for some of the factors associated with 'decreased' (or, tbh, increased) time spent playing video games. And that it'd be pretty damned hard to prove that the relationship between playing computer games and academic performance identified by this study isn't / wasn't spurious at worst, and inordinately messy at best.


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## Cid (Mar 16, 2016)

weltweit said:


> I didn't really want to read this:
> 
> Video games may actually have positive effects on young children, study finds



You do, because - were it not fundamentally flawed when applied to your case (see quoad) - it would mean that everything is fine.

Do you know how many hours a day he plays btw? It's worth getting this sorted, otherwise when he leaves it's going to be a case of 'wow, I've got 16 gaming hours/day!' And he'll live in your/his mum's spare room/basement for the next ten years.


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## Pickman's model (Mar 16, 2016)

weltweit said:


> My 16 year old son is addicted to PC gaming, WOW especially, and various others, also just spending hours on end skyping and or facebooking his mates. Normally this would not matter but he is now seriously behind on his 6th form school work, to such an extent he may well completely fail his AS exams and get booted out of college.
> 
> Anyone have any ideas?


change his courses to those where proficiency in wow is an advantage


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## moon (Mar 16, 2016)

I recently discovered that many people in the tech department at work are addicted to WoW, some of them are engineers in their 50's..


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## weltweit (Mar 16, 2016)

Cid said:


> You do, because - were it not fundamentally flawed when applied to your case (see quoad) - it would mean that everything is fine.
> 
> Do you know how many hours a day he plays btw? It's worth getting this sorted, otherwise when he leaves it's going to be a case of 'wow, I've got 16 gaming hours/day!' And he'll live in your/his mum's spare room/basement for the next ten years.


He plays many hours a day and more at weekends. He won't be permitted to leave college and doss, it is either college or a job / apprenticeship or some other useful activity. He just got a couple of Bs in recent computing tests so perhaps he is making more of an effort at the moment. If he is then perhaps he can continue in colege. I hope so.


----------



## Cid (Mar 16, 2016)

weltweit said:


> He plays many hours a day and more at weekends. He won't be permitted to leave college and doss, it is either college or a job / apprenticeship or some other useful activity. He just got a couple of Bs in recent computing tests so perhaps he is making more of an effort at the moment. If he is then perhaps he can continue in colege. I hope so.



What are you going to do with him? If he drops out of college will you/she kick him out? It's not easy getting an apprenticeship/job at the moment and the fact he'd rather be sat at home playing WoW will probably come across in an interview. Limit his gaming hours. Ideally ban MMOs for as long as he's at home.


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## weltweit (Mar 16, 2016)

Cid said:


> .. Limit his gaming hours. Ideally ban MMOs for as long as he's at home.


Easier said than done, his mum doesn't want the aggravation. I have said clearly to him and her that if it were down to me I would cut the net off until 6.30 - 7pm so he has plenty of time for college work before that, but his mum is not in favour at the moment.


----------



## Cid (Mar 16, 2016)

weltweit said:


> Easier said than done, his mum doesn't want the aggravation. I have said clearly to him and her that if it were down to me I would cut the net off until 6.30 - 7pm so he has plenty of time for college work before that, but his mum is not in favour at the moment.



I can't put myself in your position of course, I'm just talking from the perspective of someone who did a lot of gaming in late teens/uni and had friends who did. I lived with a single mum too (although my dad died when I was young) and I think it can be very difficult to deal with a 16 year old boy. Often easier to let them get on with it and, as you mention, avoid any aggravation. Could you suggest he stay with you for a bit? Give her a bit of space... 

Also games like WoW promote a certain kind of very intensive gaming; it's the guild structure within the game and the commitment you form to guild activities. Offline games you can just pause and do something else for a bit. That's not possible in that kind of MMO - playing the game at high levels _requires_ you to put a lot of time in. Thing is, once he's stopped, he'll have forgotten about it within a week, he's a teenager.

You could also change his PC use. Either by removing the graphics card (although even onboard graphics will run wow these days I suppose) or by getting some kind of netbook that won't run it. Or possibly ban the computer from his room.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 16, 2016)

weltweit said:


> Easier said than done, his mum doesn't want the aggravation. I have said clearly to him and her that if it were down to me I would cut the net off until 6.30 - 7pm so he has plenty of time for college work before that, but his mum is not in favour at the moment.


It's probably good, in a way, that this option is apparently closed to you. I think, one way or the other, you're going to end up having to find a solution based on getting some kind of understanding of each other's motivations. Professional help is not necessarily the answer, just to clarify that


----------



## moon (Mar 16, 2016)

Why, it seems a perfectly reasonable solution, it will also motivate him to do his college work so he can then play.


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## QOTH (Mar 16, 2016)

My name is QOTH and I am a chronic procrastinator, and have been for as long as I can remember. It sounds trivial, but it has affected my life negatively in many ways.  

I'm pretty sure the only reason I have any qualifications is because I did them *before *there was an array of 24-hour, instantaneous distraction options specifically designed to command my attention.  Would it help to ignore the procrastination activity (WoW) and look at the procrastination itself?  If you made WoW disappear, would hard work and application replace it, or something else? 

There are quite a few resources online about procrastination, some of which are better than others - but I've found stuff on habit and behaviour change has made a big difference. On a really bad day (like today, when I'm procrastinating under the guise of helping other procrastinators) I will try to do even 5 minutes of concentration 'sprints' with breaks inbetween and once you start, it becomes easier to do more.  

Also (as I think existentialist suggests) is there some consensus that you and his mum could build with him about what he wants to do and what he needs to do to get there? Also some mid-term rewards you could figure out to bridge the gap between 'big scary but quite distant goal' and 'what's easy and fun to do right now'?

Oh, and I can really recommend the app 'Rescue Time' - which monitors how much time you spend twatting about on your computer and also how much productive work you do.  I'm not sure it's something that you could install against another user's will though,  as it's not aimed at controlling someone else's activity, it's about getting stuff you want to do done, but if he buys into the idea that he might need to work a little harder, it could be something you use consensually.


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## existentialist (Mar 16, 2016)

QOTH said:


> Oh, and I can really recommend the app 'Rescue Time' - which monitors how much time you spend twatting about on your computer and also how much productive work you do.  I'm not sure it's something that you could install against another user's will though,  as it's not aimed at controlling someone else's activity, it's about getting stuff you want to do done, but if he buys into the idea that he might need to work a little harder, it could be something you use consensually.


A good dialogue might actually enable Rescue Time to be talked about as a way of helping him start to manage his time - he may even recognise that there's a problem, but is steadfastly refusing to admit that to anyone else. Encouraging him to consider the "what if I am spending too much time on WoW" question without having to be instantly accountable for any doubts he might discover could have very useful results - and I will have to take a look at that app myself!


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## Mr Moose (Mar 16, 2016)

existentialist said:


> If he really is "addicted", then the question probably needs to be - what is the problem that this addiction is the solution to?
> 
> I suspect that banning or otherwise preventing him from playing games is likely only to harden his position and make it more difficult to unravel what's going on, not to mention putting you into the role of enforcer/policeman rather than a more caring one.
> 
> ...



You get 'interesting' results. Do you get any useful ones? Cause it sounds full of air to me.


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## existentialist (Mar 17, 2016)

Mr Moose said:


> You get 'interesting' results. Do you get any useful ones? Cause it sounds full of air to me.


Yes, I get useful results. I'm always impressed, even after years in practice, how effective giving people the option to choose to change a behaviour, rather than feeling obligated to change, is. Kids and adults.


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## kalidarkone (Mar 17, 2016)

It is great to give people including kids the option but IMHO there is a line where the adult still has to has to take charge.  A lot of teenagers can't cope with making life changing decisions- especially when they have an addiction problem and have not had any opportunity for reflection and need the adults to step in- even more so in a single parent family as there may be no recognised united front. I think his mum is making a huge mistake for a temporary easy life. But it won't be flipping easy for anyone if he is allowed to have his own way over something he is addicted to on many levels.  Tough love.
Can you get mum to read this thread?


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