# Bayonetta



## al (Nov 23, 2009)

Is anyone really interested in this? It's getting loads of hype all over the place but for the life of me I can't really work out why, it just looks like a standard Devil may Cry clone - is it becuz she is girl?


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## fen_boy (Nov 23, 2009)

It's supposed to be the absolute pinnacle of this genre. But it looks a bit naff to me on what I've seen so far. It got 10/10 in Edge.


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## Silva (Nov 23, 2009)

Apparently, a few of the developers were also involved with God Hand, and the lead designer has Viewtiful Joe and Okami on his curriculum. Just that alone would be enough to make me consider purchasing a new console to play it


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## The Groke (Nov 24, 2009)

The demo was good fun.

It is essentially a Devil-May-Cry-em-up, but with a greater sense of fun and surreality.

I will be getting it.


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 24, 2009)

Glasses porn.


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## kabbes (Nov 24, 2009)

al said:


> Is anyone really interested in this? It's getting loads of hype all over the place but for the life of me I can't really work out why, it just looks like a standard Devil may Cry clone - is it becuz she is girl?


It's because it's a Devil May Cry clone, which means it apes one of the best games ever made, but apparently it's even better.

Good enough reason for me.


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## fogbat (Nov 24, 2009)

Why is Sarah Palin fighting giant angels?


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## sim667 (Nov 24, 2009)

monsters and fantasy stuff......

think ill steer a course well clear of this one


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## Callum91 (Nov 24, 2009)

Why is she riding a Doom wheel? ( any Warhammer nerds out there  )


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## al (Nov 25, 2009)

fen_boy said:


> It got 10/10 in Edge.



Yeah - just seen that, maybe I'll have to investigate 10/10 is about as rare as rocking horse shit. But I'm not really sure, I wasn't a massive fan of DMC, I get a bit put off by all the super duper ultra mega hyper turbo combos...

I guess I'll wait a few months and get it 2nd hand...


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## kabbes (Nov 25, 2009)

al said:


> But I'm not really sure, I wasn't a massive fan of DMC, I get a bit put off by all the super duper ultra mega hyper turbo combos...


Then you're not going to like it.

A 10/10 doesn't mean that everybody in the world will definitely like it.  It just means that it is an exquisitely crafted game that does what it does with enormous distinction.


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## kyser_soze (Nov 25, 2009)

10/10? In _Edge_? Don't they only give that score to Miyamoto games?

*confused and frightened*


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 25, 2009)

kyser_soze said:


> 10/10? In _Edge_? Don't they only give that score to Miyamoto games?
> 
> *confused and frightened*



He's only had three 10's...

    * Super Mario 64 (Nintendo 64) - E35 (1996)
      Gran Turismo (Sony PlayStation) - E55 (1997)
    * The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (Nintendo 64) - E66 (1998)
       Halo: Combat Evolved (Xbox) - E105 (2001)
       Half-Life 2 (Windows PC) - E143 (2004)
       Halo 3 (Xbox 360) - E181 (2007)
       The Orange Box (Windows PC, PlayStation 3, Xbox 360) - E182 (2007)
    * Super Mario Galaxy (Wii) - E183 (2007)
       Grand Theft Auto IV (PlayStation 3, Xbox 360) - E189 (2008)
       LittleBigPlanet (PlayStation 3) - E195 (2008)
       Bayonetta (PlayStation 3, Xbox 360) - E209 (2009)


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 25, 2009)

Bayonetta got 40/40 in Famitsu too. As did these:

   1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998, Nintendo, for Nintendo 64)
   2. Soulcalibur (1999, Namco, for Dreamcast)
   3. Vagrant Story (2000, Square Co., Ltd., for PlayStation)
   4. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2003, Nintendo, for Nintendo GameCube)
   5. Nintendogs (2005, Nintendo, for Nintendo DS)
   6. Final Fantasy XII (2006, Square Enix, for PlayStation 2)
   7. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008, Nintendo, for Wii)
   8. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (2008, Konami, for PlayStation 3)
   9. 428: Fūsa Sareta Shibuya de (2008, Sega, for Wii)
  10. Dragon Quest IX (2009, Square Enix, for Nintendo DS)
  11. Monster Hunter Tri (2009, Capcom, for Wii)
  12. Bayonetta (2009, Sega, for Xbox 360)
  13. New Super Mario Bros. Wii (2009, Nintendo, for Wii)


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## fogbat (Nov 25, 2009)

I'm pretty sure I've seen Bayonetta hanging around outside Cyberdog


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## kyser_soze (Nov 25, 2009)

'Only' 3.

That's 27% of all the 10/10s they've _ever_ awarded. Not a bad score really...


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## mwgdrwg (Nov 25, 2009)

kyser_soze said:


> 'Only' 3.
> 
> That's 27% of all the 10/10s they've _ever_ awarded. Not a bad score really...



He'd have a lot more if they reviewed some of his previous work 

Anyway, looking forward to trying the demo of Bayonetta to see what the fuss is about!


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## kyser_soze (Nov 25, 2009)

Just watched a trailer on YouTube and yeah, it looks pretty fucking awesome.


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## fieryjack (Nov 26, 2009)

by all accounts the PS3 variant is a bit ropier, 360's is the better bet if you have both. I'm interested enough to get the demo next week, but, these days, I think the half-naked character design puts me off
perfect timing
a digital foundry comparison of the versions


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## fen_boy (Nov 26, 2009)

Ah shit, that's a shame - it looks really poo on the PS3 next to the 360, I hope it's not as bad when it's not shown side-by-side. A lot of the video in that link is slowed to 30% too, hopefully not as noticeable at full speed.

Why did they make the PS3 such a fucking weird machine? When stuff's coded specifically for it it looks amazing, but some of the ports are terrible.


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## kyser_soze (Nov 27, 2009)

It suffers from what I call 'over-specced-3rd-console-doesn't-know-what-it-is' syndrome. Market dominance of the PS2 allowed too much innovation in the design and spec (altho I still reckon that PS3 has better long term legs than the eggsbox), leading to a hugely powerful console unsuited to a market where you have to succeed on 2 of the 3 biggest consoles to make money.

I view it as a similar situation to the C64/Spectrum thing years ago - loads of games that _should_ have been as good/better on the C64 turned out better on the speccy...


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## mwgdrwg (Dec 3, 2009)

Demo is out on 360. Had a play...it is fucking beautiful.


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## Kid_Eternity (Dec 18, 2009)

Played the demo, it looks great (is it me or does she end up naked quite a bit!?), the gameplay is fun in a 'tons of actions not sure if any of it is really my doing' kinda way...think it's one for renting not buying.


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

I've got round to playing the full version of this now.

Oh.  My.  Fucking.  God.  It is AMAZING.  It's like a ballet of death.  It's what Devil May Cry wanted to be when it grew up.  It's fluid, deep yet playable, aesthetically amazing and with a tongue so firmly in cheek that it's coming out the other side.

If you're a fan of the genre then you MUST get this.  And if you're not, it might even covert you.


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## fen_boy (Jan 26, 2010)

It won't sell well and because of the shitty PS3 port I'm going to wait till it costs about £15 second hand before I get it.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 26, 2010)

graphics don't look all that


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> graphics don't look all that


Played it, have you?


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## Orang Utan (Jan 26, 2010)

there's a screenshot on this thread


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## Orang Utan (Jan 26, 2010)

just looked at some youtube clips too


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

Brilliant.  Judging a game from some youtube clips and a screenshot.

You have to play a game to appreciate its graphics.  Graphics inform them play experience.  They don't exist in some pure context-free aesthetic vaccuum.  Bayonetta's graphics all go towards ensuring that the player gets to experience the maximum possible kinetic ballet without getting lost in the detail.  It's like a pretty explosion in your face.  I'd say that its graphics are one of the best I've ever seen, in terms of creating the overall feel.


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

It's all about the little details too.  There are 1001 little touches.  Like the fact that you have some gossimer butterfly wings that appear when you jump and a little explosion of butterflies when you land.  Then about an hour in you notice that in strong sunlight your cape forms a shadow that looks like a giant butterfly.  That moment of noticing the shadow almost makes you laugh with its sheer chutzpah.

The game is massively, massively overstylized and OTT.  It makes you smile from the point you start playing to the point you stop.


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## fogbat (Jan 26, 2010)

Is it better than the demo suggests? 

I played the 360 demo and found it pretty incoherent - half the time I was having trouble working out what was going on.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 26, 2010)

sure, but i'm just going on what i've seen so far and i'm not keen on those kind of games. my flatmate's getting it, so we'll see.


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## kyser_soze (Jan 26, 2010)

Played the demo and while I can see it's great if you go for that kind of thing, I just found I was mashing buttons in the fights rather than going at it all cool and controlled. Not a reflection on the game more me, but I won't be buying it...


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## Orang Utan (Jan 26, 2010)

oh is it that kind of game? i'm rubbish at combos - i couldn't ever get past the first major scene in assassin's creed 2


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## kyser_soze (Jan 26, 2010)

Yeah, it's that kind of game. TBH I'm having the same issues with Brutal Legend during the stage fights, but at least that has a real tongue in cheek SOH about everything.


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

If you're rubbish at combos then don't even attempt it!  Assassin's Creed 2 was very, very easy by comparison.

The game is MUCH better than the demo, though, because it leads you by the hand through the initial stages, giving you more gradually, so that you are very soon kicking, punching and shooting with the best of them.  

I particularly like the move that has you doing a handstand, shooting at all the bad buys using the guns that are on your feet, before rolling out into a pose for the camera.  Utterly, utterly silly and wonderful.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 26, 2010)

aaaarrggh! i need to find a game that ain't too difficult, dexterity wise, and involve running around shooting and/or hitting things/bits to bloody bits


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

Have you thought about trying Pippa Funnell's Horse Challenge?


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## kyser_soze (Jan 26, 2010)

orang utan said:


> aaaarrggh! I need to find a game that ain't too difficult, dexterity wise, and involve running around shooting and/or hitting things/bits to bloody bits





kabbes said:


> have you thought about trying pippa funnell's horse challenge?



finish him!!!!!


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## Orang Utan (Jan 26, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Have you thought about trying Pippa Funnell's Horse Challenge?



doesn't sound very gory or violent


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## fen_boy (Jan 26, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> aaaarrggh! i need to find a game that ain't too difficult, dexterity wise, and involve running around shooting and/or hitting things/bits to bloody bits



Have you played Dead Space? I think you'd like that. And Batman Arkham Asylum.


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## Orang Utan (Jan 26, 2010)

got bored of all the stomping in dead space.
the batman was recommended to me by something else.
i think i shall enjoy watching flatmate play bayoneta rather than playing it myself


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## sim667 (Jan 26, 2010)

I played the demo, its probably the most horrid game i've ever played.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

Why did you think that?


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## Geoffrey (Jan 26, 2010)

I bought it last week.  It's good fun, and has some seriously over the top moves and combos which are pretty satisfying to use and some of the enemies are HUGE, giving a real sense of occasion.  Load times on the PS3 version are loooonnggg though and do get a bit annoying and the cutscenes are a bit naff too.  10/10 seems a bit to high for me, i'll say 8/10 (or maybe 7.5!).


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

I got four games for birthday and Christmas: L4D2, COD:MW2, Assassin's Creed 2 and Bayonetta.  I'd give them 8, 9, 9 and 9 respectively on the special personal kabbes scale.  All excellent games, in my view.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

kabbes said:


> It's all about the little details too.  There are 1001 little touches.  Like the fact that you have some gossimer butterfly wings that appear when you jump and a little explosion of butterflies when you land.  Then about an hour in you notice that in strong sunlight your cape forms a shadow that looks like a giant butterfly.  That moment of noticing the shadow almost makes you laugh with its sheer chutzpah.
> 
> The game is massively, massively overstylized and OTT.  It makes you smile from the point you start playing to the point you stop.



Yeah and that bit where she's totally nude...heh found the demo fun but a bit frantic and not sure if I could be bothered to learn all the buttons etc.


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## Geoffrey (Jan 26, 2010)

COD MW2 is next on my list.  Really looking forward to that one.  I try to complete games these days before buying another, otherwise they end up piling up all over the place and don't get finished!


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

Geoffrey said:


> COD MW2 is next on my list.  Really looking forward to that one.  I try to complete games these days before buying another, otherwise they end up piling up all over the place and don't get finished!



Good plan, I tried and failed to finish Halo 3: ODST before MW2 came out, haven't played another game properly (apart from an hour here and there of L4D2) since launch!


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

Geoffrey said:


> COD MW2 is next on my list.  Really looking forward to that one.  I try to complete games these days before buying another, otherwise they end up piling up all over the place and don't get finished!


I've had lots of time, so I've been able to finish AC2 and MW2.  L4D2 has been temporarily shelved, although I only play it multiplayer anyway.  I'm going to finish Bayonetta and then go back to L4D2 and MW2 as multiplayer options.


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## fogbat (Jan 26, 2010)

In Japan, it's called Super Magic Sarah Palin Adventure Squad.


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## sim667 (Jan 26, 2010)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Why did you think that?



Its just bloody silly.

Guns in shoes? Massive fists appearing from nowhere? 

Its just like soulcaibur, with guns, as a platform game....

I dont really like fantasy blamcham either........ give me a robot with guns and a dystopian future anyday.


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

She has GUNS on her FEET.  Guns.  Feet.  She turns upsidedown and SHOOTS with the GUNS on her FEET.

She does a breakdance and the GUNS on her FEET shoot whilst she does the BREAKDANCE.

Am I not getting through to you here?


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## revol68 (Jan 26, 2010)

nah it just looks an over busy mess, played the demo and it just felt like button mashing, like Devil May Cry but gone stupid.


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

revol68 said:


> nah it just looks an over busy mess, played the demo and it just felt like button mashing, like Devil May Cry but gone stupid.


Do you think that maybe it felt like button mashing because it was just a demo and therefore couldn't take you very deep?  Just a thought.


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## revol68 (Jan 26, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Do you think that maybe it felt like button mashing because it was just a demo and therefore couldn't take you very deep?  Just a thought.



No it was because there was far too much going on filling the screen with ludicrous nonsense, I could barely make out my character half the time, and the aesthetic is fucking awful, the main character looks like a gimp.


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

Tell the truth -- you were just frightened by the sight of boobs and hips, weren't you?


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

I did find the demo proper frantic, couldn't tell at times if I was causing deaths by luck or design...


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## revol68 (Jan 26, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Tell the truth -- you were just frightened by the sight of boobs and hips, weren't you?



Nah it's just way too OTT, I didn't get any sense of actual control over the character, certainly not in the way that pulling off moves in DMC did.


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

Meh, demo.  Demo is as demo does.  It's never going to be anything more than the most general possible ideas of look-and-feel.  I tend to avoid them unless I already really, really want to play the game, for that very reason.


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

revol68 said:


> Nah it's just way too OTT, I didn't get any sense of actual control over the character, certainly not in the way that pulling off moves in DMC did.



I finished DMC, DMC3 and DMC4 (including DMC3 on Dante Must Die mode) and I'm telling you that you have WAY more control over Bayonetta than you EVER did over Dante.


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## revol68 (Jan 26, 2010)

kabbes said:


> I finished DMC, DMC3 and DMC4 (including DMC3 on Dante Must Die mode) and I'm telling you that you have WAY more control over Bayonetta than you EVER did over Dante.



maybe but the demo is just stupidly frantic and it was a nightmare even seeing where my character was, y'know like a Michael Bay action sequence.


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## stupid dogbot (Jan 26, 2010)

I detested DMC, so not going to bother with this.


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

stupid dogbot said:


> I detested DMC, so not going to bother with this.


Very wise.  Bayonetta is just a refined, enhanced and turbo-charged DMC.  It has a very similar feel, which is hardly surprising, since it was made by the same person!


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## stupid dogbot (Jan 26, 2010)

I think the main reason I didn't like those, if I'm _really_ honest, was that I was rubbish at them. Too hectic for me.

A nice game of stamp collecting is more my pace.


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## kabbes (Jan 26, 2010)

Of all game genres, the DMC-alikes are my favourites.  Ever since the days of Double Dragon!


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## sim667 (Jan 26, 2010)

kabbes said:


> She has GUNS on her FEET.  Guns.  Feet.  She turns upsidedown and SHOOTS with the GUNS on her FEET.
> 
> She does a breakdance and the GUNS on her FEET shoot whilst she does the BREAKDANCE.
> 
> Am I not getting through to you here?



Well thats just bloody silly isn't it?


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## stupid dogbot (Jan 26, 2010)

kabbes said:


> Of all game genres, the DMC-alikes are my favourites.  Ever since the days of Double Dragon!



God, I loved that arcade machine when I was a kid!


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## Kid_Eternity (Jan 26, 2010)

So anyway I thought the demo made the game good enough to rent but not buy...


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## manifold (Jan 26, 2010)

I thought the demo was piss poor, very button-mashy, and the first hour of the game having 45 minutes of cutscenes was making me think I was right.

After about 3 hours into the full game I started to change my mind, because i) there was actually some gameplay and it was good, and ii) I had gotten good enough at the combat that it wasn't button-mashing anymore, instead if was fluid and fun.

I'd probably rent it if I hadn't already brought it, but definitely worth a spin I think.


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## mwgdrwg (Apr 21, 2010)

Just got this, it is so over the top and plenty of hilarious WTF moments. Such a change from colourless first person shooters.


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## bmd (Apr 21, 2010)

Brilliant innit. Once you get enough rings to buy moves and weapons it gets much better.


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## mwgdrwg (Apr 21, 2010)

I wish there were more crazy games.


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