# Pokemon Black/White



## Steel Icarus (Feb 13, 2011)

I'm looking forward to this, now. 

Tepig. Fucking _genius._


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## fen_boy (Feb 13, 2011)

I reckon you're on your own there mate.


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 13, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> I reckon you're on your own there mate.


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## geminisnake (Feb 13, 2011)

Are you not a bit old for Pokemon?? I say that to my son and I'm sure he's younger than you


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 13, 2011)

geminisnake said:


> Are you not a bit old for Pokemon?? I say that to my son and I'm sure he's younger than you



I was too old when they invented it in 1996.


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## Kid_Eternity (Feb 13, 2011)

1998 called, it wants its game back.


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## kabbes (Feb 15, 2011)

I am almost certainly going to buy this on its day of release

What?  No, nothing.  Never mind me.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 15, 2011)

pokemon is brilliant.


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## kabbes (Feb 15, 2011)

So which is the one to go for, do we reckon?  Black or White?


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 15, 2011)

kabbes said:


> So which is the one to go for, do we reckon?  Black or White?



Depends on what Pokemon you like, I suppose. 

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Pok%C3%A9mon_Black_and_White_Versions

Even though it looks like there's more in White, because of White Forest, I'll probably go for Black, cos it's got Breloom in it (one of my faves), and also an intruiging psychic threesome whose final evolution is called Gothitelle.


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## Citizen66 (Feb 16, 2011)

Oh yeah pokemon. _you've gotta get 'em all!_

The game cards, the toys or both?

Go capitalism.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 16, 2011)

actually pokemon is at it's heart a really fun game

i got a game boy emulator  and for  laugh  booted up pokemon yellow  to see what the fuss was about

24 hours later i was still playing

yeah sure  there was a marketing storm around  it  but the game is actually  quite good 
the anime is so so


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## kabbes (Feb 16, 2011)

At its heart, Pokemon is actually the deepest strategy RPG on the market.  Sure, it's dressed in kids' clothes.  But so what?  Look past that and you have the most satisfying handheld game since Disgaea.


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> At its heart, Pokemon is actually the deepest strategy RPG on the market.  Sure, it's dressed in kids' clothes.  But so what?  Look past that and you have the most satisfying handheld game since Disgaea.



True dat. I spent many a dull factory shift attempting to figure out the best possible team & optimum moveset. Pokemon of the Day Chick and all that. Curselax ftw.

All-time favourite 'mon, then, kabbes?


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## kabbes (Feb 16, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> True dat. I spent many a dull factory shift attempting to figure out the best possible team & optimum moveset. Pokemon of the Day Chick and all that. Curselax ftw.
> 
> All-time favourite 'mon, then, kabbes?


 
I think it has to be Gyarados, doesn't it?  Purely for the joy of having managed to train an utterly useless Magikarp for long enough to turn it into a killing machine.


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 16, 2011)

My favourite is Snorlax. He is a tank.


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I think it has to be Gyarados, doesn't it?  Purely for the joy of having managed to train an utterly useless Magikarp for long enough to turn it into a killing machine.



They killed his stats after Blue/Red, though. But yeah, Gyarados is mint.

Lapras, for me. With Surf, Ice Beam, Confuse Ray, and Body Slam. Parafusion is a killer.


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 16, 2011)

Dillinger4 said:


> My favourite is Snorlax. He is a tank.



Snorlax with Curse = Curselax. Almost impossible to down. 

With Rest, Double-edge, & Sleeptalk, it's a hardcore beastie.


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## hiccup (Feb 16, 2011)

This thread reads like a weird, fucked up game of Mornington Crescent


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## kabbes (Feb 16, 2011)

Underneath those kiddie trappings, it _plays_ like a fucked-up Mornington Crescent.

Imagine scissors-paper-stone but with hundreds of assymetrical relationships rather than just three.  And they interact and combine.  Then you have to pick four of them at once.  And you can improve your scissors into scissor-rock hybrid if you work it hard enough.


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 16, 2011)

or if your like me just  level up your pikachu till it glows in the dark  and then just chuck in a water pokemon for tough rock types

what attack strategy should i use...  thunder no exceptions


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 16, 2011)

I always enjoyed capturing the legendary pokemon like Zapdos, Articuno and Moltres. 

I think Zapdos was always my favourite.


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 16, 2011)

Shippou-Sensei said:


> or if your like me just  level up your pikachu till it glows in the dark  and then just chuck in a water pokemon for tough rock types
> 
> what attack strategy should i use...  thunder no exceptions



Thunder, nah. Hate moves with shite accuracy. Would rather go for a weaker one that hits every time. Thunderbolt is plenty hard enough. Although Pikachu is a bit toss for an electric. Electabuzz is the bollocks.


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## geminisnake (Feb 16, 2011)

What?? So there's more to this than just wandering about a wee screen fighting wee monsters?? I only ever played Pokemon pinball  Son was really into it though.


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## fen_boy (Feb 16, 2011)




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## kabbes (Feb 16, 2011)

geminisnake said:


> What?? So there's more to this than just wandering about a wee screen fighting wee monsters??


 
Yes.  There is.

Like there is more to chess than just moving a little horsey across a chequered board.


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## geminisnake (Feb 16, 2011)

Chess is a real game though!!


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## Shippou-Sensei (Feb 16, 2011)

well the just wandering about  for a start is  really  quite nice   the world although originally limited by technology  was at least interesting  with an ongoing plot and recurring characters

the fighting monsters works principle  on the paper rock scissors type equation but  with additional  statistics  thrown in  such  as  a moves power versus it's accuracy 

although fairly basic in principle in execution there are a wide range of approaches

plus of course  the  real winner is that the pakage it was presented in was  well polished and fun 

the initial simplicity  makes it easy to start playing  and the aditional complexities  means  it doen't have to get boring


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 16, 2011)

This thread has just reminded me of Gary MOTHERFUCKING Oak


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## kabbes (Feb 16, 2011)

Who is Gary MOTHERFUCKING Oak?


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 16, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Who is Gary MOTHERFUCKING Oak?



Ash's arch nemesis, grandson of Professor Oak. 

The one who turns up when you are at your very weakest every single fucking time.


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## kabbes (Feb 16, 2011)

Ah.

I'm not really good with the non-pokemon part of pokemon


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## Dillinger4 (Feb 16, 2011)




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## kabbes (Feb 18, 2011)

This thread inspired me to look see what I finished with on Pokemon Diamond.

It seemed that the six key pokemon I had in my bag (at level 50+) were:

Dialga -- steel dragon
Staraptor -- normal flying
Gyarados -- water flying
Abomasnow -- grass ice
Rapidash -- fire
Bronzong -- steel psychic

Any thoughts, experts?  Weaknesses?


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## Imserious (Feb 22, 2011)

Any of you guys see the video of the psyched black guy? Genius. And to add, you are never too old for Pokemon, that's what the government wants you to think.


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## kabbes (Feb 22, 2011)

I pre-ordered Pokemon White over the weekend.  On Amazon, as my first ever purchase of anything using Nectar points.  That way it felt like I got it free.

I've been playing Diamond again recently, having got in the mood.  The legendary Dialga is a bit boring to have in the team (plus is disqualified for the post-endgame battles), so I have replaced him with a Steelix, who I am trying to get above level 50.  Also trying to work out the best moves to give the steelix -- am loathe to lose the one dragon-based move I have in the team but the Steelix isn't the ideal pokemon to have with a special attack dragon move.


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 26, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I pre-ordered Pokemon White over the weekend.  On Amazon, as my first ever purchase of anything using Nectar points.  That way it felt like I got it free.
> 
> I've been playing Diamond again recently, having got in the mood.  The legendary Dialga is a bit boring to have in the team (plus is disqualified for the post-endgame battles), so I have replaced him with a Steelix, who I am trying to get above level 50.  Also trying to work out the best moves to give the steelix -- am loathe to lose the one dragon-based move I have in the team but the Steelix isn't the ideal pokemon to have with a special attack dragon move.



Steelix wants Curse, Rock Slide, & Earthquake.


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## Steel Icarus (Feb 26, 2011)

I've not played Diamond/Platinum - Boy won't let me. Silver is the last one I finished, though I did a hell of a lot of Emerald until I accidentally got a job.

Erm. Pokemon. 

I think the team I did the Elite 4 in Silver comprised:

Lugia - Aeroblast/Psychic/Ancient Power/Recover
Lapras - Surf/Ice Beam/Confuse Ray/Body Slam
Snorlax - Curse/Double Edge/Rest/Sleep Talk
Typhlosion - Sunny Day/Flamethrower/Thunderpunch/Earthquake
Heracross - Megahorn - some other moves I can't remember
Ampharos - Thunderbolt/Thunder wave/Fire punch/something else

I think that's it.


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## kabbes (Feb 28, 2011)

I've replaced the Bronzong with a Lucario now.  The Lucario is awesome, I have to say.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 4, 2011)

I've just started Platinum, although I'm excited about Black. And this thing:






http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Genesect_(Pok%C3%A9mon)

It's only got one weakness. And its base stats come to 600. Cheap or what?


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## kabbes (Mar 9, 2011)

Genesect is well cheap but it does at least have a 4x weakness to fire.

I've had a day at White now.  Early gains, a core team starting to form.  Oshawott has evolved and is great.  I'm liking blitzle, although its final evolved form has a base stat at the fringes of usefulness (just under 500, if memory serves).  At the moment, I'm also going with pansear and munna, both of which need items to evolve (which worries me) and a lillipup that has just evolved to a herdier.

From the start, I'm trying to stick with pokemon that have a chance of ultimately still being useful.  That means ultimate base stats of 500 (though I think some of the above are in the 480-500 range) and a decent range of types.

Interestingly, I've also got hold of an early Fighting type that doesn't evolve (Throh).  It has a base stat of 465, which is way overpowered for my current position but underpowered for the final team.  I have to decide whether to stick with it through the early game or concentrate on levelling up those with more long term potential.  

Another early fighting type (timburr) looks like it has a useful final form but you can only get it via trade.  I don't have anybody to trade with


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 9, 2011)

fen_boy said:


>




You get to punch him in to orbit in super smash brothers.


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## kabbes (Mar 9, 2011)

Like the other gen 1-4 pokemon, there will be no jigglypuff until the post-endgame of Black/White.

And I've never seen the cartoon, so can't comment on how annoying or otherwise its characters are.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Genesect is well cheap but it does at least have a 4x weakness to fire.
> 
> I've had a day at White now.  Early gains, a core team starting to form.  Oshawott has evolved and is great.  I'm liking blitzle, although its final evolved form has a base stat at the fringes of usefulness (just under 500, if memory serves).  At the moment, I'm also going with pansear and munna, both of which need items to evolve (which worries me) and a lillipup that has just evolved to a herdier.
> 
> ...



The Boy got Black last Tuesday, but we made him wait til last night before giving him it as he's been a bit of a naughty bugger lately. He asked for advice on his starter; I said Oshawott because it's only got 2 weaknesses in its final form - so he went for Tepig.  I've obv. not had much chance to look at it, as he's been glued to his DS, but when he's out at football tomorrow I'm going to have a play. As long as I remember not to save, heh heh.

I've been playing Platinum, which still seems quite sophisticated to me - my gestalt Pokemon graphical style is that of Blue or Silver.


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## kabbes (Mar 12, 2011)

My game has somewhat moved on.  I have:

Samurott (final evolution of Oshawott) -- water, base stat 528
klinklang -- steel -- base stat 520
eelektross -- electric -- base stat 515
krookodile -- ground/dark -- base stat 503
simisear -- fire -- base stat 498
Leavanny -- grass/bug -- base stat 490


(Or, at least, I will do when my klang evolves to a klinklang in a few levels' time)

I have at least one pokemon with an offensive and defensive advantage to all pure elemental types except for normal, fighting, dragon and dark at least one with at least a defensive or offensive advantage to those types too.  Mostly I have a back-up advantage too.  So it's pretty balanced against all enemies that I might encounter.

That said, I'm almost at the point that I can get archeops -- flying/rock with a base stat of 567.  That would allow me to have Fly permanently in the party, which would be a relief -- at the moment, I'm having to switch at pokemon centres to a flying type every time I want to get some rapid transit.  Probably worth substituting it for the eketross, because its rock type gives offensive and defensive advantage against flying, which is the chief purpose of keeping the electric type in the team.  I hate to give up the elektross though because that really is a beauty.

Anyway, the game is pokemon yet again with basically no changes but just a different monster set.  :Shrug:.  Worth it if you have hours of commuting or other time to kill but it's not so different to Heart or Diamond that I'd be desperate for it otherwise.


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## kabbes (Mar 12, 2011)

Ooh, one other thing to mention -- the leavanny and the krookodile may have two of the three lowest base stats in my team (although both are still high) but they are by far and away the most useful.  Between them they give advantages against almost all elemental types.  I think if necessary I could get the game done basically with those two alone.  Certainly those two plus the steel as back-up.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> My game has somewhat moved on.  I have:
> 
> Samurott (final evolution of Oshawott) -- water, base stat 528
> klinklang -- steel -- base stat 520
> ...


 
Smart stuff.

The Boy STILL won't listen when I tell him to try never to have more than one of any type of move on a 'mon. Mind you, I got through Blue without really realising this myself. And to be fair if you have a Lapras, a Gyarados, Mewtwo, Charizard, Dragonite & Snorlax in Blue it doesn't really matter.

I'm looking forward to getting my hands on Gen. 5; I know it's not going to be radically different. A fully 3D Wii version is what I really want. 

Anyway, I'll probably wait until they release the "third" game of this gen. Grey, maybe?


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 12, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Ooh, one other thing to mention -- the leavanny and the krookodile may have two of the three lowest base stats in my team (although both are still high) but they are by far and away the most useful.  Between them they give advantages against almost all elemental types.  I think if necessary I could get the game done basically with those two alone.  Certainly those two plus the steel as back-up.



It's why I always loved Lanturn despite it only having 460 base. Very useful beastie.


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## kabbes (Mar 13, 2011)

It has to be the primary consideration although single player can be beaten by levelling up a few powerful enough pokemon whatever their type, like you say.  I want some humans to battle against instead .  Although not yet -- everyone is still in their 40s at the moment...

dark/ground has offensive AND defensive advantage against electric, poison, psychic, rock and ghost.  Bug/grass has both advantages against water, grass and ground -- the perfect complement to dark/ground!  Eight total advantages between two pokemon  

Meanwhile, between them, they also have either offensive or defensive advantage (with no disadvantage) against fire, fighting, dark and steel.  That only leaves normal, ice, flying, bug and dragon with no solid advantages (of which only ice and bug represent serious problems).  

Usefully, steel gives you at least some advantage of all those remaining five.  All bases at least partially covered in just three pokemon leaving you three to use as luxury advantages.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 13, 2011)

Interesting stuff. *bookmarks thread*

I've never had a battle with a human. Don't know anyone nearby other than the Boy who likes Pokemon, my Militant Nintendo Comrade upped sticks for Sheffield 5 years ago. 

Do you operate a "non-legendary" rule with your human/human battles?


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## kabbes (Mar 13, 2011)

You get me wrong -- I've also never had a human/human battle through lack of opponents.  I was bemoaning the fact that I will forever miss out on what is clearly the best part of the game.

I would definitely ban legendaries though.  To me, they feel cheap and nasty.  I even have a no-legendary rule for my party in-game.

Archeops isn't legendary (at least bulbapedia made no mention of it).  Even so, I worry that a base stat of 567 is bordering on the cheap.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> You get me wrong -- I've also never had a human/human battle through lack of opponents.  I was bemoaning the fact that I will forever miss out on what is clearly the best part of the game.
> 
> I would definitely ban legendaries though.  To me, they feel cheap and nasty.  I even have a no-legendary rule for my party in-game.
> 
> Archeops isn't legendary (at least bulbapedia made no mention of it).  Even so, I worry that a base stat of 567 is bordering on the cheap.



Oh, I see. 

Maybe I will have to battle the Boy at some point. Let him have legendaries, and me not even pseudo-legendaries. There are enough good ones. Always wanted a Kindgra (but no-one to bloody trade with. Have you seen the stats/lack of weaknesses on that thing?) 

But he'll still be a seven-year-old boy.


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## kabbes (Mar 13, 2011)

Be a good lesson for him in the importance of balancing your elemental types though.


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## kabbes (Mar 13, 2011)

Oh and yeah -- a lot of the best pokemon can only evolve from trades.  It's really frustrating.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Be a good lesson for him in the importance of balancing your elemental types though.





Yeah, I can fold my arms, tilt my head on one side and say "well, I warned you" while the tears stream down his defeated little face. To him, anything that doesn't immediately take a chunk out of an opposing Pokemon's health is worthless. But he will learn.


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## kabbes (Mar 13, 2011)

He's got a point in one regard though -- a _lot_ of moves fall into the Cool But Inefficient trope.  If it only takes two hits to kill then what's the point in spending one move lowering defence to then get a one-hit kill?

Even worse, plenty of others are Awesome But Impractical.  What's the point in pissing about with uber death-moves if they require _just_ the right circumstances when you can just one- or two-hit-kill in any case if you just use the right elemental type?

I find pokemon one of the worst offenders of these tropes and do, I admit, concentrate on big hit moves myself and so have some sympathy with your boy on that one.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> He's got a point in one regard though -- a _lot_ of moves fall into the Cool But Inefficient trope.  If it only takes two hits to kill then what's the point in spending one move lowering defence to then get a one-hit kill?
> 
> Even worse, plenty of others are Awesome But Impractical.  What's the point in pissing about with uber death-moves if they require _just_ the right circumstances when you can just one- or two-hit-kill in any case if you just use the right elemental type?
> 
> I find pokemon one of the worst offenders of these tropes and do, I admit, concentrate on big hit moves myself and so have some sympathy with your boy on that one.



I have sympathy with this - I immediately discard moves like Leer, Growl, Defence Curl, etc. But he sees no value at all in Curse, Double Team, even the wonderful Confuse Ray. (I always hated Hyper Beam until I played as a Slaking.)

But yes, it took me a while to work out that the type combo and attendant strengths/weaknesses are more important than base stats.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 13, 2011)

Oh, and I avoid moves that don't have 100% accuracy. Thunderbolt over Thunder, and Ice Beam over Blizzard every time.


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## kabbes (Mar 13, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Oh, and I avoid moves that don't have 100% accuracy. Thunderbolt over Thunder, and Ice Beam over Blizzard every time.


 
Yeah, this is definitely in accordance with either Awesome But Impractical or Cool But Inefficient.

The move Inferno, for example. It has 100 BP and automatically causes burn... but it only has 50% accuracy!  There are lots of moves that have 100% accuracy with a lot more than 50 BP.

I have a fondness for damage moves that give stat bonuses strictly as a side-effect.


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## kabbes (Mar 13, 2011)

Ooh -- biggest improvement for Generation V is a really simple one -- TMs are multiple use!  I never wanted to use them before in case I needed them elsewhere later.  But now you can experiment to your heart's content.  Much better!


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I have a fondness for damage moves that give stat bonuses strictly as a side-effect.



Body Slam being one fine example. 85% damage, 100% accuracy, 30% chance of paralysis. That combined with Confuse Ray makes a hell of a problem for someone. Lapras learns both. One of the reasons that's my fave Pokemon.

And then there's Ancient Power on an Aerodactyl, and the 10% chance of ALL stats going up a stage. Sweep, sweep, sweep.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Ooh -- biggest improvement for Generation V is a really simple one -- TMs are multiple use!  I never wanted to use them before in case I needed them elsewhere later.  But now you can experiment to your heart's content.  Much better!



 No more nightmares about who to put Earthquake or Double Edge on!


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## kabbes (Mar 13, 2011)

It's a simple thing but it has genuinely increased the quality of the play experience manifold.

They stop you PP farming too by making sure that if you use a TM then the current status of the PP is no higher than the old move.  Otherwise you could just keep relearning the same TM and never need an ether.


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## kabbes (Mar 15, 2011)

I finished the main game.  Made a last minute substitution of the electric eelektross for a 510-base fighter to even up the roster.  I suffered in the final section for junking my fire-base though -- lots of steel bug creatures whose only weakness is fire!  

The final final final guy has one particularly cheap (level 54) monster who I haven't looked into but has (a) no obvious weaknesses that I could find; (b) near one-hit kills for my level 50 monsters; and (b) ENORMOUS speed so that he could get his hits in first.  I have to admit that I basically cheated this by repeatedly healing until he ran out of PP for his moves.  Take that, fucker.  I must look up what that thing was though at some point so that I can look into getting one for myself.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 15, 2011)

Was it this?

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Hydreigon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)

Evolves _into_ this at level 64.


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## kabbes (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, that's exactly what it is.  Cheating boss characters can have creatures at levels below which they are actually evolved into though.

Weak to fighting and bug, it would seem.  Would have been nice to know that at the time.  Also dragon and ice but I had no ice and dragon is a double-edged sword.

I never got a chance to get near it until my fighter and bug characters were dead anyway, mind.  Bloody one-hit kills galore.

I've only come across one deino in the wild and I accidentally killed it


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## fen_boy (Mar 15, 2011)

LOL nerds.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 15, 2011)

fen_boy said:


> LOL nerds.



LOL Victor Mature.


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## kabbes (Mar 21, 2011)

Couldn't resist:


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## fractionMan (Mar 21, 2011)

I have a level 20 magicarp just waiting to evolve.

But this is in fire red, so I'll shut up now.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 21, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Couldn't resist:


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## kabbes (Mar 21, 2011)

I like the way he has carefully and recognisably drawn an unconscious ottawott, munna, minccino and pidove, surrounded with splattered bloodstains.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 22, 2011)

kabbes said:


> I like the way he has carefully and recognisably drawn an unconscious ottawott, munna, minccino and pidove, surrounded with splattered bloodstains.


 
Me too.

Guess what else I like? My missus. She said last night, "do you want anything? Music? Books? Games? What about Pokemon White?".

It'll be here tomorrow.


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## kabbes (Mar 24, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Was it this?
> 
> http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Hydreigon_(Pok%C3%A9mon)
> 
> Evolves _into_ this at level 64.


 
I finally have one of these.  Had to evolve it from the crappy deino starting at level 37 via another crappy intermediate evolution to get there, so it was a painful process.  But now I have a Death Machine.  It can learn Fly too, meaning that I can dump the birds.

Well into the post game at this point.  I have acquired five legendaries, which I just store as is my wont.  It feels just too cheap to capture some level 75 ice dragon megatank and then use it -- makes a mockery of the hard-earned levelling up.  I even levelled a larvesta from an _egg_ to get my volcarona at level 59 (550-base fire bug death machine)... before flattening the level 70 one I found that serves as a post game sub boss!  , except that I probably wouldn't use it if I hadn't made it myself.

My current mission is to "catch 'em all", so to speak (at least regionally.  Bollocks to the 649 that make the total national 'dex!)  I have seen 148 of the 152 that I believe are currently available (genesect has apparently not been release yet, for example) and obtained 111.  

The missing ones -- particularly the ones I haven't obtained -- are going to be increasingly impossible though.  I hope to trade via my Diamond to get some of the evolutions only obtainable via trade.  This may or may not work.  But the Black-exclusives are never going to come my way no matter what I do.  Currently using the nursery and Exp Share to gradually level the no-hopers into the evolutions I haven't managed to catch.  I'm not far off finishing that though.  I reckon my top limit for obtainable 'mon is going to be in the 120s somewhere.

Still haven't worked out an absolute final team, although I'm currently favouring:

Samurott (water, base 528, great all-rounder and can cope with surf and waterfall)
Hydreigon (dark/dragon, base 600, total tank)
Volcarona (fire/bug, base 550, learns psychic which gives it double-effectiveness vs. fighters)
Eelektross (electric with immunity to ground, base 515, NO weaknesses!  And it learns flamethrower!)
Krookodile (ground/dark, base 503.  Very high speed, which is great for one-hit kills, plus ability increases attack after a kill)
Mienshao (fighting, base 510)

Not convinced about the mienshao -- it's defence is apalling.  But its ability regenerates health when swapped out so I'm convinced there is a use for it.  Possibly involving the bug move U-Turn, which allows you to hit and run.  Bug isn't a good fit for a fighter though, so ho-hum.  It learns bounce, which makes it good versus other fighters and bugs.  But if I can get the conkeldurr via trading then I might substitute that in.  Otherwise not sure what would be the best option.

Eelektross/krookodile makes for an awesome double pairing, incidentally.  The eelektross is immune to earthquake and the krookodile is immune to discharge (electric area move).  So you can hit both opponents twice for no loss.  

I think I have the most attachment to the eelektross for its incredible versitility -- no weaknesses at all (inc total immunity to ground and strength versus steel, flying and electric) plus its electric and fire moves give it advantages versus water, flying, grass, bug and ice.  Total all-rounder -- it has an advantage versus 8 of the 17 types and disadvantages to none.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 24, 2011)

It hasn't come yet. 

I've deliberately avoided finding out too much about it since I knew I was getting it now rather than when "Grey" or whatever comes out. But your team looks good. Looking forward to getting my hands on the Eelektross - electrics are often a _bit_ lightweight even though I always have one and still remember my Ampharos fondly. I've not even really looked at the graphics, either.

Bless him, the Boy is playing Soul Silver until I catch up on White to where he is on Black.


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## kabbes (Mar 24, 2011)

I avoided electrics like the plague when playing diamond because they seemed to be all mouth and no trousers.  But a high-base electric with immunity to its one weakness and the ability to outclass half the other types with no disadvantages... well, that's something else!

I've been running it on three electric moves too -- one physical (spark), one special (thunderbolt) and one area (discharge).  I think I might dump spark though -- although its attack is better than its special attack, thunderbolt has about a 50% better BP.  That will give me the option of taking on a move to eat through some of the _other_ half of elemental types...


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## kabbes (Mar 24, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> Looking forward to getting my hands on the Eelektross


Ooh -- one other thing springs to mind.  Eelektross's one weak point is its speed (not too bad but probably worse than half the top level alternatives), so try to train it early with carbos and versus high speed EV yields.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 25, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Ooh -- one other thing springs to mind.  Eelektross's one weak point is its speed (not too bad but probably worse than half the top level alternatives), so try to train it early with carbos and versus high speed EV yields.



I have White. 

And I had no idea about EV yields until now, though it's hardly spoiled my enjoyment of Pokemon these last 10 or so years.


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## kabbes (Mar 25, 2011)

Best to continue to not worry about them in my view.  Unless you want to compete in one of those ultra-hardcore international competitions, I don't think they're ever going to hold you back!


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## kabbes (Mar 25, 2011)

Up to a regional pokedex of 148/152 and caught 118 now.  The poketransfer lab only allows for one-way transfer, not trade, so I am doomed to forever be without the trade-only evolutions   I think a catch of about 125 is my absolute limit, unfortunately.  And I don't know how I am to view the missing ones from the 'dex either -- the legendary that is only available in Black, for example.  I doubt a random NPC trainer is going to have that in their box.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 25, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Up to a regional pokedex of 148/152 and caught 118 now.  The poketransfer lab only allows for one-way transfer, not trade, so I am doomed to forever be without the trade-only evolutions   I think a catch of about 125 is my absolute limit, unfortunately.  And I don't know how I am to view the missing ones from the 'dex either -- the legendary that is only available in Black, for example.  I doubt a random NPC trainer is going to have that in their box.



 Quite difficult for you to find an agreeable child with Black without being beaten or put on some kind of database, too. 

The Girl is off for her nap in a bit, so I'm going to get started. Tempted by Snivy because Serperior is purrty but it's weak to a million things, so it'll have to be Oshawott (because the Boy has an Emboar).


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## kabbes (Mar 25, 2011)

Grass just isn't ultimately that useful.  Water is.  You will always need a water type -- for surf and waterfall at least -- and Samurott is the best water type available without going legendary.  Emboar isn't the best fire either but it is very useful as a combination fire/fight.  I think my ideal team would include both Samurott and Emboar, which would free up my fire and fight places for other things.  But ho-hum, no such luck.  My ideal team wouldn't have Serperior though.


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## Steel Icarus (Mar 25, 2011)

kabbes said:


> Grass just isn't ultimately that useful.  Water is.  You will always need a water type -- for surf and waterfall at least -- and Samurott is the best water type available without going legendary.  Emboar isn't the best fire either but it is very useful as a combination fire/fight.  I think my ideal team would include both Samurott and Emboar, which would free up my fire and fight places for other things.  But ho-hum, no such luck.  My ideal team wouldn't have Serperior though.


 
I always think of a water starter as being one I'll ditch eventually - this is due to Lapras being my favourite Pokemon of all. But Oshawott etc it is. Besides, Ferrothorn looks interesting down the line.


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## kabbes (Mar 25, 2011)

Steel☼Icarus said:


> I always think of a water starter as being one I'll ditch eventually - this is due to Lapras being my favourite Pokemon of all.



I made a houserule -- I am only allowed to use the new pokemon.  No going back to old favourites!  Not that you can get them until the post game in any case.



> But Oshawott etc it is. Besides, Ferrothorn looks interesting down the line.



If you play the right kind of game then sure.  Defensively damned near impregnable unless somebody has a flamethrower.  And a nasty surprise for those with physical attacks.  Not really my kind of 'mon though.


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## Steel Icarus (Apr 13, 2011)

Going through White slowly. At moment got Dewott (35), Tynamo (33), Archen (33), Krokorok (35), Throh (34) & a load of others around 28 like Gigalith & Simisear. Boy has traded me a Gothitelle, too.


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## kabbes (Apr 13, 2011)

The problem with Archen is its ability fucks its stats.  Look for braviary, swanna or, ultimately, hydreigion.

I officially changed the cart this week   found a neat srpg for a fiver.  So far so good but I miss my pokemon.


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## Steel Icarus (Apr 13, 2011)

kabbes said:


> The problem with Archen is its ability fucks its stats.  Look for braviary, swanna or, ultimately, hydreigion.
> 
> I officially changed the cart this week   found a neat srpg for a fiver.  So far so good but I miss my pokemon.



Aye, its ability is rubbish, but one lucky Ancient Power then Acrobatics & it's a sweeper extraordinaire. Will no doubt replace 3 or 4 of these anyway, but for now it's a solid bunch. Tynamo is a ball-ache to level up but it'll be worth it.


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## kabbes (Apr 13, 2011)

It's well worth levelling Tynamo, but you know my views on that 

Acrobatics is a bit shit unless you aren't holding anything, surely?  AncientPower isn't that powerful either, although you obviously have the chance of a mega power-up.  

The biggest problem I found with Archen, though, is that half the bloody bestiary seemed to have either an advantage vs. flight or vs. rock.  And it isn't that speedy, which meant at higher levels, it kept getting one-hit killed.

I think you'll stick with the evolved Tynamo, Dewott and Krokorok.  So three out of six from a final line up is pretty good going when you're in the 30s, I reckon.  

If you are trading, incidentally, can you get hold of a Conkeldurr?  I never did really satisfy myself that the final place in the roster was best without a fighter but none of the other White fighters really did it for me (mienshao is also too vulnerable to the one-hit kill).  I think Conkeldurr is probably the best of the bunch.


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