# anonymous nimby's trying to force the black swan out of business!



## DaveCinzano (Jul 20, 2005)

was recently chatting to mel from the black swan about his flooding problems, he mentioined in passing he's having problems from people in the area trying to get him put out of business. he showed me an anonymous leaflet that's been circulated - the usual unsubstantiated guff, no names, no details - and i didn't really think any more of it.

but he's up before the council's licensing committee for a renewal on tuesday 26 july - and a quick look at the agenda and appendices shows he wasn't exaggerating! 10 identical letters all received on the same day, lots of wild (and scurrilous) claims about the swan being akin to the caba or the black & white, a whole load of bollocks, basically.

when was the last time you heard of trouble at the swan as bad as the nonsense in the centre of a saturday night? 

why is there so much attention being levelled at the swan's noise output? given the swan is adjacent to and opposite commercial/retail premises? and *backed by a motorway*?

so why is it that a landlord in his eleventh year of tenancy is getting all this hassle? 

is it because, well, he is black?

you'll note that the police, fire brigade and health & safety are all happy with the place, and that the noise pollution people have only seen 'people entering after 2am' and 'windows open'  

anyway, have a look at it all here - scroll down for a pdf

(i note that the committee's also considering tastie's and the cube in the same meeting: the cops are objecting to tastie's getting a renewal  the cube's unopposed, except by one local resident)


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## tobyjug (Jul 20, 2005)

bristle-krs said:
			
		

> why is there so much attention being levelled at the swan's noise output?



Since councils have taken over the administration of alcohol and other licencing complaints about noise from residents in the area taken seriously.
This is part of the  new licencing law, and many pubs are having problems.


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## on_the_fly (Jul 20, 2005)

Well on a couple of Ripsnorter nights (an 1 other night) when they had outside marquees they did have official complaints from local people about the noise as there are a few close by flats which overlook Stapleton Road.

Last year the Dirty Duck was not putting on so many rave type events and Bristol CC dont like Rave type events do they...


evidence....Trinity Closed for a long time till recent and they have to close early.

Depot insurance & council did made it impossible to keep the venue as a club.....Maze GONE etc etc etc


BRISTOL COUNCIL DONT WANT CLUBBING...PERIOD !


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## DaveCinzano (Jul 20, 2005)

the question you have to ask is *who* is coordinating the 'complaints, and *why*...

the council themselves have fuck all on the swan (whether they like clubs or not); but this recent campaign against the swan betrays more than a hint of organisation.


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## Sunspots (Jul 20, 2005)

It's a bit of a red herring IMO to think that it's aimed purely at dance music, or that, as krs suggests, it might be because the landlord's black.  As far as I'm aware, the responsibility for administration of licensing of music venues has changed recently.

Last month, The Louisiana venue _(which hosts almost exclusively non-dance music)_ was also up before the council's licensing committee over noise complaints.  

They managed to hold onto their licence, but I get the impression it was genuinely touch-and-go 'til the last minute as to whether they'd actually get to keep it.  This, despite already having taken steps to soundproof the upstairs room where the bands played.  I think they'd also fitted a noise limiter too.

What pissed off a lot of Louie supporters was that the _(two)_ residents making the noise complaints must've known there'd be a bit of noise now and again _when they chose to locate themselves next to a music venue in the harbour area, one of the busiest and noisiest areas in Bristol._  Then they still complain and try to get the pub shut down as a live venue!  

I understand that some residents in the same area _(-opposite the Ostrich pub)_ made a big fuss about outside drinking in the evening. Again, they presumably failed to notice _Ye Olde Beer Garden right nearby when they moved there... _ 

I've never seen any trouble at The Louie. And like you say krs, the worst trouble/noise/disruption in Bristol is to be seen on Friday/Saturday night on the centre/harbourside, yet those venues are still open.

Most venues are going to have similar problems regarding noise levels though soon.  I read that the peak db level allowed in UK venues is soon set to drop from 140db to 112db (-which, due to the bassiness of most music played there, will surely cause particular problems for venues like The Black Swan...).

_(-No links to any of that, I'm afraid.  Largely based on what I've been told anecdotally in Bristol and seen discussed on local music sites like Choke.)_


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## tobyjug (Jul 20, 2005)

bristle-krs said:
			
		

> the question you have to ask is *who* is coordinating the 'complaints, and *why*...
> 
> the council themselves have fuck all on the swan (whether they like clubs or not); but this recent campaign against the swan betrays more than a hint of organisation.



If the pub is within legal noise limits measured by the local authority it should be OK.
(One local pub was measured at 115 decibels, which is taking the piss, no wonder people were complaining)


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## DaveCinzano (Jul 20, 2005)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> It's a bit of a red herring IMO to think that it's aimed purely at dance music, or that, as krs suggests, it might be because the landlord's black.



i should have been clearer - there are 2 issues - the licensing, which is the council's job, can't grumble too much at that; and the (anonymous) campaign to have the swan shut down, by whatever means available. it's the latter i'm more interested in, because it's going to feed into the first.

i'm all for councils listening to local residents in licensing affairs, but i'm sceptical of both the truthfulness of some of the statements proffered, and the reasons behind them.

i don't know whether i believe that this is a campaign organised by actual local residents. some of the businesses around stapleton road have been approached by (non-resident) people and told to make complaints.


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## tobyjug (Jul 20, 2005)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> I read that the peak db level allowed in UK venues is soon set to drop from 140db to 112db



The current legal limits at the nearest habitation to the venue are much lower than than. I think 80 in the day and only 25 at night.
I would also point out that any pub allowing its employees to be subjected to noise levels at 112 decibels would have trouble with the Health and Safety executive.


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## Zaskar (Jul 20, 2005)

I think i remember several shooting / stabbing incidents over the last few years involving the pub.  This may be a contributory factor.

i live near the swan and I am not aware of any campaign locally, tho I am unaffected by the noise.  However I have passed it late at night and it can be very loud outside and there are flats opposite.

Sunspots, 140 db would permanently deafen you if you were exposed for any lengh of time.  It would certainly cause pain.

http://www.800nonoise.com/tutorial_noiselist.htm


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## on_the_fly (Jul 20, 2005)

Zaskar said:
			
		

> *I think i remember several shooting / stabbing incidents over the last few years involving the pub.  * This may be a contributory factor.
> 
> i live near the swan and I am not aware of any campaign locally, tho I am unaffected by the noise.  However I have passed it late at night and it can be very loud outside and there are flats opposite.
> 
> ...



A pub stabbing someone..what mind altering chemicals do u need to be able to see that...and more importantly...where can i get it ?


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## Sunspots (Jul 20, 2005)

bristle-krs said:
			
		

> i should have been clearer - there are 2 issues - the licensing, which is the council's job, can't grumble too much at that; and the (anonymous) campaign to have the swan shut down, by whatever means available. it's the latter i'm more interested in, because it's going to feed into the first.
> 
> i'm all for councils listening to local residents in licensing affairs, but i'm sceptical of both the truthfulness of some of the statements proffered, and the reasons behind them.
> 
> i don't know whether i believe that this is a campaign organised by actual local residents. some of the businesses around stapleton road have been approached by (non-resident) people and told to make complaints.



_Some randomly-ordered thoughts...    _

I imagine that for some residents, the regular noise associated with The Black Swan is genuinely making their lives a bit of a misery. 

Tbh, I can well believe that most of the objections listed in the pdf are about things that _do really go on._  The question is, of course, to what extent, and how much it's related to The Black Swan itself.

When people are at the end of their tether, I reckon their complaints will possibly tend to be exaggerated because (a) they're obviously trying to win the debate, and (b) in their desperation, it _subjectively_ feels just as bad as they're claiming.  

Public anonymity of complainants: if I was a resident making a complaint about what I considered to include threatening behaviour, I'd be very reluctant to give my name.

As far as the noise goes, I think the new licence will make it very difficult for The Black Swan not to have to turn it down.  I'm sure it mentions fitting a noise limiting device.  I reckon venues will find it increasingly difficult nowadays and will have to concede more and more if they want to hold onto their licence.

Regarding the actual written complaints, I wouldn't imagine it's anything particularly sinister. It's probably one or two residents who've _seriously_ complained _(-which, I suppose, is their right)_, who've then canvassed for further support by drafting a standard letter for other residents in the area.

Finally, AFAIK, there's nothing to stop you or anybody else in the area writing a letter of _support_ for the licensing application.  -Why not give it a go?  It seems to have helped swing it for The Louie...


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## fat hamster (Jul 20, 2005)

bristle-krs said:
			
		

> the cube's unopposed, except by one local resident)


Apols for slight derail - do you happen to know who that one local resident is?


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## Sunspots (Jul 20, 2005)

fat hamster said:
			
		

> Apols for slight derail - do you happen to know who that one local resident is?



Understandably, no names are mentioned in the pdf _(-linked to in krs' OP)_; but if a local resident were to read it, I'm sure there could be clues:




			
				bristle-krs said:
			
		

> anyway, have a look at it all here - scroll down for a pdf
> 
> (i note that the committee's also considering tastie's and the cube in the same meeting: the cops are objecting to tastie's getting a renewal  the cube's unopposed, except by one local resident)


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## fat hamster (Jul 20, 2005)

Okay, it's somebody disabled living in Dighton Court, who has evidently been trying to get The Cube closed for years.


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## fat hamster (Jul 20, 2005)

Oh, and while I'm derailing - anonymous nimby's _what_?


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## Mrs Magpie (Jul 20, 2005)

It might be worth looking up what happened regarding the Bull's Head in Barnes (famous London jazz venue that's been going since God was a child) to get tips on how they won their campaign to stay open after new residents tried to get it closed....some details here on a Jazz BB...but look around for more...
http://forums.allaboutjazz.com/showthread.php?t=7325


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## The Lone Runner (Jul 20, 2005)

I just read the whole of the pdf re: Black Swan, I guess it's easy for me to say as I don't live anywhere near it, but in my experince the Black Swan is NOTHING like the way the residents letters/emails describe it....all that bollocks about fighting, used condoms in their gardens, loud cars, Pimps and Prostitues   ....are they talking about the same club I know???....I could understand somebody saying this about somewhere like "The Works" in town!
This sort of stuff goes on in a lot of places at the weekends, closing the club won't make any differnece (well ok maybe the noise) but like's already been said...surely living next to a motorway is pretty damn noisey anyway (not to mention all the pollution from the cars)
Black Swan is a nice friendly place - one of the only decent clubs left...it can't close


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## on_the_fly (Jul 20, 2005)

The Lone Runner said:
			
		

> Black Swan is a nice friendly place - one of the only decent clubs left...it can't close



Its not trying to close it but:-

1. Limit noise
2. Reduce opening hours


Personally I think that some of the events held there, and I have been to a LOT of them in past months, do not have the anti social status they have given them. 

I have never heard or seen a car race, a fight pimps or such like in the local streets when i come out to go home. Apart from a lot of taxis, the streets are nearly empty. Unless these events happen much earlier in the morning (before 5am).

It is strange to see both Police and fire have no issues with the venue, which did suprise me, so all i see is the issue of noise from the music. It will be a shame if the do ban the outside area as it is fun sat there chatting with good music and a bonfire.

Events such as Ripsnorter and other like events may have to find another home as the proposed 2am close is IMO not long enough for the event, unless they start the event earlier.

Apparently, the academy has had these noise related issues and you can now talk quite easily whilst dancing on the dance floor, to me thats TOO quiet.

Just my views on it all.

ps Prefer London clubbing now but hey . . . .


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## WasGeri (Jul 20, 2005)

The incident Zaskar is referring to occurred about a year ago IIRC - there was a fight in the Black Swan involving a gang of people, they left the pub and ran down St Marks Road and it ended up with several people getting stabbed.

I don't tend to go past the Black Swan late at night but I have noticed far more people hanging around that area than there used to be.

I imagine it's the Eastville Residents Action Group who are co-ordinating the campaign (I could be wrong though).


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## Sunspots (Jul 20, 2005)

fat hamster said:
			
		

> Oh, and while I'm derailing - anonymous nimby's _what_?



-D'ya mean: what's a _'NIMBY'_?   

= _Not In My Back Yard_


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## Sunspots (Jul 20, 2005)

on_the_fly said:
			
		

> It is strange to see both Police and fire have no issues with the venue, which did suprise me, so all i see is the issue of noise from the music.



Yep, by the looks of the licence renewal application, I think excess noise is the only reason The Black Swan will get it's knuckles properly rapped. 

As you say, there's been no objections lodged by the Police, Fire, or regarding Health & Safety issues other than the noise.


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## on_the_fly (Jul 20, 2005)

Maybe we should demolish it and start growing Celery there..nice and quiet then   



apart for the noise of the wrappers being stroked in a loving way of course


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## Sunspots (Jul 20, 2005)

on_the_fly said:
			
		

> Maybe we should demolish it and start growing Celery there..nice and quiet then
> 
> 
> 
> apart for the noise of the wrappers being stroked in a loving way of course



Being so crunchy, it's not really one of the easiest of foods to _eat_ quietly, is it!...


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## fat hamster (Jul 20, 2005)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> -D'ya mean: what's a _'NIMBY'_?
> 
> = _Not In My Back Yard_


<takes umbrage>    

I know that!  

I'm questioning the use of a possessive apostrophe, innit.


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## DaveCinzano (Jul 20, 2005)

fat hamster said:
			
		

> <takes umbrage>
> 
> I know that!
> 
> I'm questioning the use of a possessive apostrophe, innit.



aha - busted 

in my defence i have a very sticky keyboard at the moment (my posts have been littered with typos lately)


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## fat hamster (Jul 20, 2005)

bristle-krs said:
			
		

> in my defence i have a very sticky keyboard at the moment


Too much information!


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## bristol_citizen (Jul 20, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> I imagine it's the Eastville Residents Action Group who are co-ordinating the campaign (I could be wrong though).



I doubt it. Not their style. I'll try and find out for you though. 
Also the council docs refer to a neighbourhood watch group...


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## tobyjug (Jul 20, 2005)

bristle-krs said:
			
		

> the question you have to ask is *who* is coordinating the 'complaints, and *why*...
> .




If you make an official  comment or complaint about a licencing application which has to be in writing for anyone to take any notice, it has to be open to public scrutiny to anyone who takes the time and trouble to go to the council office and asks to see it.


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## Zaskar (Jul 20, 2005)

bristol_citizen said:
			
		

> I doubt it. Not their style. I'll try and find out for you though.
> Also the council docs refer to a neighbourhood watch group...



AKAIK it is nothing to do with the ERA.  Thier focus is on the ruddy kerb crawlers and scum bag dealers usually.  I know the geezer who is the big cheese, will check with him.

Personally if I lived over the road it would annoy me.  Over the last 15 years it has gone from quietish pub to a bloody full on noise zone with tonnes of comings and goings till very late.  I think running a club for repetitive beats in a residential neibourhood is out of order.

As others have pointed out there is already the m way to put up with, at least that is quiet at night !

And no I wasnt the petitioner.


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## fat hamster (Jul 21, 2005)

tobyjug said:
			
		

> If you make an official  comment or complaint about a licencing application which has to be in writing for anyone to take any notice, it has to be open to public scrutiny to anyone who takes the time and trouble to go to the council office and asks to see it.


Are you saying that the actual names and addresses of the complainants will be publicly available there?  Because they are not given on the Council's pdf file relating to the application.


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## tobyjug (Jul 21, 2005)

fat hamster said:
			
		

> Are you saying that the actual names and addresses of the complainants will be publicly available there?  Because they are not given on the Council's pdf file relating to the application.




If you go to the council offices any comment or complaint over a licencing/planning issue should be available to the public complete with names and addresses.


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## fat hamster (Jul 21, 2005)

Cheers.


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## J77 (Jul 21, 2005)

The Lone Runner said:
			
		

> but in my experince the Black Swan is NOTHING like the way the residents letters/emails describe it....all that bollocks about fighting, used condoms in their gardens, loud cars, Pimps and Prostitues   ....are they talking about the same club I know???....


You probably don't notice due to your 'mind state' when leaving the swan


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## tobyjug (Jul 21, 2005)

J77 said:
			
		

> You probably don't notice due to your 'mind state' when leaving the swan



Quite, living in the vicinity of a pub/club, is different from being a customer.


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## The Lone Runner (Jul 21, 2005)

J77 said:
			
		

> You probably don't notice due to your 'mind state' when leaving the swan



I don't know *what* you're talking about!


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## bristol_citizen (Jul 22, 2005)

The Evening Post is on to it now...


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## DaveCinzano (Jul 22, 2005)

typical 'post in-depth reporting... giving over an entire paragraph to an anonymous complainant from the appendices mentioned earlier, with no actual response from the swan, or verification from council, police or even interviews with local people as to whether the allegations were true:



> ...throwing used needles and condoms in residents' front gardens...


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## WasGeri (Jul 22, 2005)

bristle-krs, would you like to live next door to the Black Swan?


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## on_the_fly (Jul 22, 2005)

Did you expect anything else from them KRS ?


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## DaveCinzano (Jul 23, 2005)

Geri said:
			
		

> bristle-krs, would you like to live next door to the Black Swan?



i would, as it happens. (although, tbf, there is no residential property directly adjacent to the swan on either side. there are flats above the shops opposite - i understand the people living/working there were canvassed by the people organising the complaints, but declined to get involved, because they weren't unduly concerned - and there are houses further along on the other side of the road. but the complaints in the council appendix, afaics, all say they live 'two streets' away...)

where i live i have the m32, lakota, ceed & until recently the frontline studios all competing, and not that long ago froggy's car park too - and that's in a far more residential area than where the swan is. 

i'm not saying that noise issues should be swept under the carpet - far from it. i'm simply sceptical of the accuracy of many of the points raised in the coordinated, anonymous complaints, and suspicious of the motivations behind them.




			
				on_the_fly said:
			
		

> Did you expect anything else from them KRS ?



nope


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## on_the_fly (Jul 23, 2005)

bristle-krs said:
			
		

> i'm not saying that noise issues should be swept under the carpet.



Do carpets not deaden the sound a bit ? 


SO the answer is 



*PLACE THE BLACK SWAN UNDER A HUGE RUG ! !*


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## Isambard (Jul 25, 2005)

Never had the pleasure of going to the Black Swan but I was talking the other week to a mate as the landlord of one of my locals was busy sutting windows and putting up sound blockers etc. I think it is VERY likely that it is more than a coincidence that slightly "alternative" pubs get hassle on noise if their owners arent white.


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## Sunspots (Jul 25, 2005)

Isambard said:
			
		

> I think it is VERY likely that it is more than a coincidence that slightly "alternative" pubs get hassle on noise if their owners arent white.



I think it's probably more the case that these 'alternative' places are often not part of a chain run by big business breweries, and don't have their clout.

The big 'meat market' clubs on the harbourside seem to have few problems with _their_ license renewals, despite being the primary suppliers of the alcohol that fuels the majority of city centre weekend violence...


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## on_the_fly (Jul 25, 2005)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> I think it's probably more the case that these 'alternative' places are often not part of a chain run by big business breweries, and don't have their clout.
> 
> The big 'meat market' clubs on the harbourside seem to have few problems with _their_ license renewals, despite being the primary suppliers of the alcohol that fuels the majority of city centre weekend violence...



Sad fact Mr Sunspots but in fact very true, they have the clout to dictate their terms IMO, bit of Corp blackmail etc


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## Isambard (Jul 25, 2005)

Sorry for me being extremely dense    but I thought breweries weren't allowed to actually own pubs any more? Though I do know it is all corporate bollocks etc etc. 

Despite CAMRA and a recognition that we need to keep the older fashioned, smaller independent pubs and venuees etc i get the feeling that the big companies and big venues are more powerful than ever and this fits hand in glove with the government's plans.


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## Sunspots (Jul 25, 2005)

Isambard said:
			
		

> Sorry for me being extremely dense    but I thought breweries weren't allowed to actually own pubs any more?



I really dunno, tbh.  You might well be right!   

But I still get the impression that these chains owned by the large breweries don't ever get properly taken to task about their responsibilities when it comes to license renewal time.   




			
				Isambard said:
			
		

> Despite CAMRA and a recognition that we need to keep the older fashioned, smaller independent pubs and venuees etc i get the feeling that the big companies and big venues are more powerful than ever and this fits hand in glove with the government's plans.



I guess the current government have got themselves in a bit of a mess about licensing at the mo'.  The latest uproar regarding binge drinking and anti-social behaviour means they've been pressured to reconsider their plans to roll out 24 hour drinking.  

Government won't want to fall out with the corporate breweries though. The only time the drinks industry's profits really got threatened was at the turn of the nineties with acid house.  For a while, the breweries were genuinely shitting themselves, and it took them a good couple of years 'til they fought back with a twin-pronged strategy.  On one hand, you can bet they were fully behind the government legislation outlawing unlicensed raves; then at the same time, they came up with alcopops, sponsored club nights, gradually bought into rave culture, co-opted it's images, and herded the punters (and the profits) in from the fields and back into the brewery-owned clubs and pubs.

I think lone non-mainstream, non-corporate venues like The Black Swan will always have a hard time when their license is up for renewal.


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## Edcase (Aug 2, 2005)

Success! Lots of us Hijackers emailed the council in the Dutty Bird's defence, and some of the emails were read out at the hearing: I dunno fi it was that that did the trick or something else entirely, but the Swan has had its license renewed.    

You can read a bit more here

...and if you're still feeling public-spirited then drop the council a line on licensing@bristol-city.gov.uk and let them know what a sensible decision they've made. On a purely selfish note, it looks like I'm gonna be promoting a night there later in the year, and I cannae wait!


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## boskysquelch (Aug 2, 2005)

*Yippppeee!*




			
				Edcase said:
			
		

> ...and if you're still feeling public-spirited then drop the council a line on



awwwwr...bet everybody will be here this weekend...in Cornwall...  ...but i'm sure They will when they get back. Congratulations ALL round btw...saving your Local and all thaaaat!


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## J77 (Aug 3, 2005)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> The big 'meat market' clubs on the harbourside seem to have few problems with _their_ license renewals, despite being the primary suppliers of the alcohol that fuels the majority of city centre weekend violence...


Yeah - it's stupid. Black Swan is the only decent venue left in Bristol, ie. one that contains sound people.


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## on_the_fly (Aug 3, 2005)

Personally I really dislike the place. However, on saying that, I am glad they have not closed it or changed the closing time to too early, which would mean that the only place left to go would be Lakota !   

Black Swan IMO is dirty, the main dance room is a pit with slippery floors (that are always wet), the crowds IMO seem to be mainly people who want to get so wasted they can only just stay awake.

Don't beleive I am about to say this but. . . .


BRING BACK THE OLD DAYS - Good Music, nicer punters, better less hassle clubs (real clubs) and less fuckwits


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## cyberfairy (Aug 3, 2005)

on_the_fly said:
			
		

> Personally I really dislike the place. However, on saying that, I am glad they have not closed it or changed the closing time to too early, which would mean that the only place left to go would be Lakota !
> 
> Black Swan IMO is dirty, the main dance room is a pit with slippery floors (that are always wet), the crowds IMO seem to be mainly people who want to get so wasted they can only just stay awake.
> 
> ...


And tea and scones and the cha-cha


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## J77 (Aug 3, 2005)

Think it depends on the night - wouldn't go to a garage night there - I assume the metal detector gets used on those nights 

Techno nights tho' 

And the place gets just as messed up as Trinity or Depot did...


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## on_the_fly (Aug 3, 2005)

I really cant pin my dislike of the place to one thing, I just dont get the clubbing vibe from the place.  When my good lady and I go to The Fridge or Fire its so much like the old clubbing when I 1st started going, Its probably the lack of the party style atmosphere in the Black Swan.

Maybe I am just changing my style of clubbing, if you like the place that fair doos, not knocking it, just stating my own personal preference.


Oh, yeah Depot and Trinity do/did get a bit minging but there were always places that still looked nice by the end of the night


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## cyberfairy (Aug 3, 2005)

on_the_fly said:
			
		

> I really cant pin my dislike of the place to one thing, I just dont get the clubbing vibe from the place.  When my good lady and I go to The Fridge or Fire its so much like the old clubbing when I 1st started going, Its probably the lack of the party style atmosphere in the Black Swan.
> 
> Maybe I am just changing my style of clubbing, if you like the place that fair doos, not knocking it, just stating my own personal preference.
> 
> ...


Last sat it looked lovely, the promoters had made loads of gorgeous trippy paintings and you could hardly see the walls behind them..shame about the loos though...Does depend on night-i had fab time and talked to loadsa chilled nice people on sat...nice bonfire too...


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## Zaskar (Aug 3, 2005)

It is a pub in a residential area.  I dont think it should be open to all hours too often playing horrenously loud music, but I am 42.... If I was 22 I suspect I would think differently.


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## Sunspots (Oct 4, 2005)

*Saturday Night Fever*




			
				Sunspots said:
			
		

> The big 'meat market' clubs on the harbourside seem to have few problems with _their_ license renewals, despite being the primary suppliers of the alcohol that fuels the majority of city centre weekend violence...



And to illustrate the point:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/4301880.stm 

Did anybody see the footage shown on the local news last night of the violence that occurs?  

Right outside the doors of Evolution, about 30 people watching a couple of lads getting the shit kicked out of them.  It ends up with these two, on their backs, bloodied, close to unconsciousness, clinging onto the railings and trying not to get kicked into the harbour...    

That place is obviously trouble (-even the police wanted it shut down!), yet it's managed to hold onto it's licence.  It ain't right.


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## on_the_fly (Oct 4, 2005)

Yep I read that in the paper I think it was, typical, they have the monetary clout and they stay alive and open !


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## J77 (Oct 4, 2005)

Now they've opened another shithole - that multi-club place on Millenium Square.

It's pretty crap <--- I HEAR! Wouldn't dream of going there!

Council need to take their heads out of their arses and go for a walk about 'town' on a Friday/Saturday night, fuckwits.


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## DaveCinzano (Oct 4, 2005)

and yet it's these blood-soaked brewery/chain pub-backed hellholes which up until now have held the ear of the council!

"don't allow people to drink outside on the harbourside - unless they're drinking our overpriced shit!"

"okay!"

"trebles all round!"


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## Jografer (Oct 4, 2005)

Sunspots said:
			
		

> That place is obviously trouble (-even the police wanted it shut down!), yet it's managed to hold onto it's licence.  It ain't right.



and the council wanted it closed as well, but because it has been sold in the last 2 weeks solicitors argued that the notices applied to the club were for the previous owners, and didn't apply to them....


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## DJWrongspeed (Oct 5, 2005)

sounds like they're still having probs with council, really looking forward to going down there on saturday.  By looks of the gigs going on there it would seem to be an amazing cultural force, as usual people never wake up to this until it's too late


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