# Brixton news, rumour and general chat - January 2015



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 1, 2015)

Amazingly this one was started by me. Happynooyear and all that sort of thing. And anyway yes same deal as the other ones really, so enjoy....


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## leanderman (Jan 1, 2015)

Well played. HNY!


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## shygirl (Jan 1, 2015)

Happy new year urbanites!  It's been a shit year for me and mine, it can only get better!!!!


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 1, 2015)

I'm a bit freaked out that FridgeMagnet started this thread but shygirl i've met so that assuages the fear, i'm back as well. 

Last year was brutal for me and i apologise to those that caught in the crossfire, even when i shoot from the hip i sometimes hit the wrong target.

I wish you all an interesting & peaceful one.

( all my "w" are faded.)


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## Miss-Shelf (Jan 1, 2015)

DEXTER!!!!!!!!!!!!  so glad to see you here.  Last year you really brightened my new years evening on here.  I've been thinking about you this evening and wondering how you are 

wish you a much better 2015


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 1, 2015)

Miss-Shelf said:


> DEXTER!!!!!!!!!!!!  so glad to see you here.  Last year you really brightened my new years evening on here.  I've been thinking about you this evening and wondering how you are
> 
> wish you a much better 2015



Thank you.
I will go naked again but only when i'm tanned and toned and i am out of shape at the moment but i'm working on it already.

I know that many saw me as a role model, almost a porn star of a new form of socialism that they could disagree with but swallow; i truly believed that as well, i still do .

But now, i'm more sophisticated. I know i'm a walking , talking, social time bomb and my fuse was short. it will be fine. tomorrow i will review things and take them all off ignore.


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## Mr Retro (Jan 2, 2015)

My mum and dad visited recently after about 10 years, so I took them around Brixton to see what they thought now. Dad who has that Irish way with words summed it up thusly: "the place is fucken packed and I've never seen so many restaurants with so many fuckers eating in them".


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## Smick (Jan 2, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> My mum and dad visited recently after about 10 years, so I took them around Brixton to see what they thought now. Dad who has that Irish way with words summed it up thusly: "the place is fucken packed and I've never seen so many restaurants with so many fuckers eating in them".



He may have a point, but a very profane one

Which part of Ireland is he from to speak like that?

.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 2, 2015)

Brixton is so last year.


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## Mr Retro (Jan 2, 2015)

Smick said:


> He may have a point, but a very profane one
> 
> Which part of Ireland is he from to speak like that?




Cork.


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## Smick (Jan 2, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Cork.


Class.


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## leanderman (Jan 2, 2015)

Astonished by the scale and speed of the Oval Quarter project (hadn't been up there for 18 months or so).


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## ash (Jan 2, 2015)

I a


leanderman said:


> Astonished by the scale and speed of the Oval Quarter project (hadn't been up there for 18 months or so).


I agree it's like a development in Spain 10 years ago without the swimming pools, so many identikit new flats. I popped into the sales office last time I was there and they are only selling off plan for blocks that haven't even been started yet !!


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## leanderman (Jan 2, 2015)

ash said:


> I a
> 
> I agree it's like a development in Spain 10 years ago without the swimming pools, so many identikit new flats. I popped into the sales office last time I was there and they are only selling off plan for blocks that haven't even been started yet !!



I wonder whether 84 per cent have been sold to private landlords - as has happened to 2.1million of the 2.5million homes built between 2000 and 2012.


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## Manter (Jan 2, 2015)

There was a police car and do not cross tape round the pavement in front of the Queen's Head this afternoon when I came back- wonder what they've done this time....


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## editor (Jan 2, 2015)

Some pics from the Prince Albert NYE party which was bloody fantastic.






















More here: http://www.urban75.org/offline/new-years-eve-brixton-2014-2015.html


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## editor (Jan 2, 2015)

And this guy truly delivered in the dressing up for NY stakes:


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## editor (Jan 2, 2015)

The Dogstar turned their main room into a video game arcade!






http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2015/01/...ears-eve-party-came-with-a-video-game-arcade/


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## editor (Jan 3, 2015)

Good to see The Cambria busy last night for the folk night (photo feature to follow!).


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## editor (Jan 3, 2015)

Not exactly a looker this new build by JAMM on Brixton Road is it?


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## cuppa tee (Jan 3, 2015)

editor said:


> Not exactly a looker this new build by JAMM on Brixton Road is it?



This building has a dubious planning history, it looks nothing like the original plans said it would
last time i looked the developers were going for retrospective planning permission with a few alterations like window boxes to improve it's look, as for the retail units on the ground floor I swear someone was watching telly in there with those attractive plywood doors open one day last summer

http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...o?activeTab=relatedCases&keyVal=KWWND5BO0FC01

You can just see the new Lexadon project going up next to it as well.......
http://www.lexadon.co.uk/projects/247-brixton-road


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## SpamMisery (Jan 3, 2015)

I prefer it to the block to the left. Just needs the ground floor sorting


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## editor (Jan 3, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> I prefer it to the block to the left. Just needs the ground floor sorting


I wouldn't hold your breath on that one.


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## leanderman (Jan 3, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> I prefer it to the block to the left. Just needs the ground floor sorting



True. Seen worse.


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## editor (Jan 3, 2015)

I took a jaunt around Brixton last night: Brixton – photos from five bars on the first Friday of 2015


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## Gramsci (Jan 3, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> I prefer it to the block to the left. Just needs the ground floor sorting



Its a lot worse than the block to the left. 

I cycle by it on a regular basis. Its a revolting building. Looks like something that’s just been put up with no thought to design. 

On reading planning officer decision on link put up by cuppa tee this is exactly what happened. 

Applicant is also, as per usual with these types, arguing that its to onerous to have affordable housing as part of development. 




> Reasons for Refusal
> 
> The development as built, which constitues a departure from the approved plans, incorporates inappropriate and poor quality design and detailing in relation, but not restricted, to; fenestration, front elevation treatment, the form, size and siting of dormer windows and shopfront design. This
> results in a visually dominant and incongruous form of development that would fail to preserve and enhance the character and appearance of the Brixton Road Conservation Area and the character and appearance of the surrounding area in general, contrary to policy S9 of the Core Strategy
> (2011) and policies 31, 33, 36, 38, 39 and 47 of the UDP (2007)


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## boohoo (Jan 3, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> I prefer it to the block to the left. Just needs the ground floor sorting



Really? Trust me - that building is an eyesore and it has been there for a while. Considering the building directly next to Jamm is a new build but sympathetically created in keeping with the large Victorian houses next to it, there is no excuse for incredibly lame ugly design - I could do a better job!!!


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## CH1 (Jan 3, 2015)

editor said:


> Not exactly a looker this new build by JAMM on Brixton Road is it?View attachment 65901


This building is not to plan. It is built too close to the building behind (which the council were unable to remedy apparently) and the parapets at the side are supposed to be removed.

2050 maybe if enforcement operate at their normal pace.


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## Mr Retro (Jan 3, 2015)

Had a drink for the first time in Effra Social this evening. Don't know if I like the bad-rural-rugby/GAA-club-dining-hall-put-together-on-local-fund-raisers-chic thing they have going. 

However it was certainly a welcome reminder of those days of under-11 sporting innocence. Especially with the freezing lack of heating. I was half expecting some limping half-pissed kitman to hand me an unwashed jersey and warn me not to take any shit from their 14 year old half back, assuring me they would be "reported to the board" for fielding overaged players.


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## SpamMisery (Jan 3, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Really? Trust me - that building is an eyesore and it has been there for a while.



Yeah, I prefer it to the one on the left. Chuck a nice cheese and champagne shop in the empty units and it'd be lovely.


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## boohoo (Jan 3, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> Yeah, I prefer it to the one on the left. Chuck a nice cheese and champagne shop in the empty units and it'd be lovely.



Nah - the one on the left is fine - just your bog standard boring new build.  Seriously - I'm gonna do an ugly building tour with you especially SpamMisery 

No more cheese and wine shops please.


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## CH1 (Jan 4, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Really? Trust me - that building is an eyesore and it has been there for a while. Considering the building directly next to Jamm is a new build but sympathetically created in keeping with the large Victorian houses next to it, there is no excuse for incredibly lame ugly design - I could do a better job!!!


The site originally belonged to British Car Auctions and was a scrap-yard an aspiring director could have remade "*The Car Cemetery*"


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## editor (Jan 4, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> Chuck a nice cheese and champagne shop in the empty units and it'd be lovely.


Hahaha. Aren't you a wag.  







Brixton was nice and moody this morning with a wintry mist engulfing the streets.


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 4, 2015)

editor said:


>


Is that a well known urbanite rocking the Arran Sweater / trackie bottoms combo?


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## boohoo (Jan 4, 2015)

CH1 said:


> The site originally belonged to British Car Auctions and was a scrap-yard an aspiring director could have remade "*The Car Cemetery*"



I think I have seen a picture of all the cars.


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## editor (Jan 4, 2015)

if you have one....
Guide to Christmas tree recycling in Brixton and Lambeth


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 4, 2015)

lots of xmas trees out along my street already - it seems sad. I was nearly tempted to bring one home for a couple of days.


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## Ms T (Jan 4, 2015)

Tumbles Launderette on Railton Rd -- which closed suddenly before Christmas -- is reopening in new premises a few doors down the road. Apparently they had big problems with their landlord involving bailiffs. But they still have my dry-cleaning, which is good, and that of lots of other people! They really need to put a proper sign on their door...


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## teuchter (Jan 4, 2015)

CH1 said:


> 2050 maybe if enforcement operate at their normal pace.



I have been wondering whether a "Lambeth Enforcement Watch" website or blog would be a good thing to have.

It would be interesting to get a handle on just how many buildings are built that don't comply with their permission, and then get away with it.


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## editor (Jan 4, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I have been wondering whether a "Lambeth Enforcement Watch" website or blog would be a good thing to have.
> 
> It would be interesting to get a handle on just how many buildings are built that don't comply with their permission, and then get away with it.


Be happy to host such a thing on Brixton Buzz.


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## leanderman (Jan 4, 2015)

Brilliant. And don't limit it to planning nonforcement


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## Pinggoombah (Jan 5, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Brilliant. And don't limit it to planning nonforcement


Yeah. All those people smoking weed, that they just ignore.


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## Greebo (Jan 5, 2015)

Nour was nice and uncrowded today.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 5, 2015)

I got the feeling that not everyone is back to work yet. The buses, roads and phones seemed fairly quiet for a monday.


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## editor (Jan 5, 2015)

What better time for the entire heating and water in the block to break down than the last two days - just a year after a new boiler had been installed


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## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2015)

editor said:


> What better time for the entire heating and water in the block to break down than the last two days - just a year after a new boiler had been installed


so it's down the albert?


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## Pickman's model (Jan 5, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> lots of xmas trees out along my street already - it seems sad. I was nearly tempted to bring one home for a couple of days.


you fancied a dirty weekend with an xmas tree?


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 5, 2015)

editor said:


> What better time for the entire heating and water in the block to break down than the last two days - just a year after a new boiler had been installed


well, lucky it wasn't xmas eve.  Lidl is selling thermal vests this week...


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 5, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you fancied a dirty weekend with an xmas tree?


I just can't resist those fairy lights...


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## sleaterkinney (Jan 5, 2015)

Ms T said:


> Tumbles Launderette on Railton Rd -- which closed suddenly before Christmas -- is reopening in new premises a few doors down the road. Apparently they had big problems with their landlord involving bailiffs. But they still have my dry-cleaning, which is good, and that of lots of other people! They really need to put a proper sign on their door...


That's good, from what they were saying their old landlord wanted to develop it into flats.


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## sparkybird (Jan 5, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> I got the feeling that not everyone is back to work yet. The buses, roads and phones seemed fairly quiet for a monday.



Most schools back tomorrow - so that's the reason why it took me less than half the usual time to get to my job this morning!


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## Casaubon (Jan 6, 2015)

The council is canvassing opinion on the Country Show:

_‘.....we're keen to hear your ideas on how we can make the show bigger and better for this year._

_So that you can have your say on what you'd like to see at the show, we've created a short survey that should take no longer than five minutes of your time.’_

http://lambeth.gov.uk/events/lambeth-country-show-2015


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## T & P (Jan 6, 2015)

I think they should charge £7 per adult from now on, given the massive success such move was with the firework display.


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## Tricky Skills (Jan 6, 2015)

BBuzz piece here.

Summary: Owls, Aswad, cider please.


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## leanderman (Jan 6, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> BBuzz piece here.
> 
> Summary: Owls, Aswad, cider please.



Basically what I wrote in my feedback, plus: 'Don't think about charging' - an area not covered.


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## Greebo (Jan 6, 2015)

Casaubon said:


> The council is canvassing opinion on the Country Show:
> 
> _‘.....we're keen to hear your ideas on how we can make the show bigger and better for this year._
> 
> _So that you can have your say on what you'd like to see at the show, we've created a short survey <snip>_


Is there any commitment that once the replies have been collated, the council will show any sign of taking the views into account instead of doing whatever the hell they please?  </dreadful cynic>


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## Manter (Jan 7, 2015)

My Facebook feed tells me the soup kitchen has been given a car by the Sun


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## editor (Jan 7, 2015)

Manter said:


> My Facebook feed tells me the soup kitchen has been given a car by the Sun


It has indeed. I've been in touch and I'm hoping to run a feature.


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## editor (Jan 7, 2015)

Some local news: 
Green Party launches crowd funding campaign to help pay for leaflets in Streatham constituency


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## Dan U (Jan 7, 2015)

Caught a bit on the South East news this morning talking about the proposed Ultra Low Emission Zone from 2020 (consultation here - https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/environment/ultra-low-emission-zone)

Apparently a road in Central Brixton (I assume they meant the high street, I didn't catch the name) and Putney High Street are up to 5 times the recommended limits for air quality.

eta - posting jinx with editor http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...s-set-to-break-entire-2015-limit-soon.330950/


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## snowy_again (Jan 7, 2015)

Casaubon said:


> The council is canvassing opinion on the Country Show:
> _‘.....we're keen to hear your ideas on how we can make the show bigger and better for this year.
> So that you can have your say on what you'd like to see at the show, we've created a short survey that should take no longer than five minutes of your time.’_
> http://lambeth.gov.uk/events/lambeth-country-show-2015



After completing the survey questions I received a completely blank 'confirmation' email, which was nice.


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## editor (Jan 7, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> After completing the survey questions I received a completely blank 'confirmation' email, which was nice.


That's what they think of you and your feedback. Perhaps they'll 'lose' your comments too.


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## shifting gears (Jan 7, 2015)

Manter said:


> My Facebook feed tells me the soup kitchen has been given a car by the Sun



Aha - that would explain why I saw Solomon Smith being interviewed by Sun hacks, a couple of weeks ago one morning on Coldharbour Lane. Meant to mention it here but it slipped my mind.

Much as I loathe the Sun , in this case I think the old adage 'all publicity is good publicity' firmly applies, and if he got a motor out of the vicious, dishonest, scummy bastards then all the better!


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## Black Halo (Jan 7, 2015)

Casaubon said:


> http://lambeth.gov.uk/events/lambeth-country-show-2015


Am I going mad or are the age ranges under 16 and then 25+? i.e. you can't select an age between 16 and 25? (not that I am ...)


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## colacubes (Jan 7, 2015)

Black Halo said:


> Am I going mad or are the age ranges under 16 and then 25+? i.e. you can't select an age between 16 and 25? (not that I am ...)



No, you're not.  They've missed an age group out


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## colacubes (Jan 7, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> After completing the survey questions I received a completely blank 'confirmation' email, which was nice.



As did I.  Thanks for that Lambeth


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## Greebo (Jan 7, 2015)

colacubes said:


> As did I.  Thanks for that Lambeth


That's so Lambeth.


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## editor (Jan 7, 2015)

If any local snappers want to get involved...
Brixton photographers – want to get your work showcased on Brixton’s biggest site?


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 7, 2015)

Just been called the "lycra bandit" by a well known pub landlord as he caught me going out for a run,  soon no one will catch me; i posted my fastest time of the year. The body remembers long after the mind has forgotten.


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## teuchter (Jan 7, 2015)

editor said:


> If any local snappers want to get involved...
> Brixton photographers – want to get your work showcased on Brixton’s biggest site?



Is Brixton Buzz now "bigger" than urban75?


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## EastEnder (Jan 7, 2015)

Black Halo said:


> Am I going mad or are the age ranges under 16 and then 25+? i.e. you can't select an age between 16 and 25? (not that I am ...)





colacubes said:


> No, you're not.  They've missed an age group out


I am all in favour of ignoring the opinions of 16-25 year olds. Young people are loud, annoying & don't know they're born, etc. I'd probably increase the ignored age range to 16-35. Anyone who can't remember the 70's has nothing useful to add to the debate, unless the topic is Justin Bieber's latest hair style.


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## teuchter (Jan 7, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> I'd probably increase the ignored age range to 16-35. Anyone who can't remember the 70's



How much of the 70s do you think a 36 or 37 year old remembers?


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## EastEnder (Jan 7, 2015)

teuchter said:


> How much of the 70s do you think a 36 or 37 year old remembers?


Well I'm 39 and I clearly remember being shouted at for crayoning all over my brother's Beano annual in about 1978. So there


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## Yelkcub (Jan 7, 2015)

Greebo said:


> That's so Lambeth.



Is that like 'well Mexico'?


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 7, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Is Brixton Buzz now "bigger" than urban75?



Is Urban 75 only about Brixton?


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## Greebo (Jan 7, 2015)

Yelkcub said:


> Is that like 'well Mexico'?


Nothing like it.  Imagine disjointed communication, doublethink, patchwork planning, incompetence, disorganisation, and a general vibe of "CBA, don't care, it may be my job but it's not my problem".   Now turn the volume on all of that right up, to eleven.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 7, 2015)

Changes planned for 415 bus route:

https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/route-415


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## boohoo (Jan 7, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> Well I'm 39 and I clearly remember being shouted at for crayoning all over my brother's Beano annual in about 1978. So there


you are getting ancient!


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## editor (Jan 7, 2015)

There was quite a few people making use of the free Dr Bike service in Windrush Square today - get along if you want your bike fixed for nowt!


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## EastEnder (Jan 7, 2015)

boohoo said:


> you are getting ancient!


I am ageing like a fine wine - covered in dust & slowly turning to vinegar.


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## Smick (Jan 7, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Changes planned for 415 bus route:
> 
> https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/route-415


Well the buses they use are completely clapped out so new hybrid ones might be nice.

They should also increase the frequency. Get on one at Hardel Rise at 8am and it's full by Upper Tulse Hill.

And stop the girls from St Martin in the Field getting on at Hardel Rise to go to High Trees.

I've just realised that I do have quite a few opinions for their survey, but instead of filling it in, I'll write it on here in the hope that TFL will take a look before the end of the consultation.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 7, 2015)

You can't stop people getting on the bus for one stop....

...although, it'd be nice if yer could


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 7, 2015)

Especially old people.

Fuck them and their ailments....and pull along trolleys


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## Greebo (Jan 7, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> You can't stop people getting on the bus for one stop....
> 
> ...although, it'd be nice if yer could


Sometimes you're one of those people growling at people staying on the bus for just one stop, sometimes you're the one who was either in a hurry or just couldn't face walking as far as the next bus stop.


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## Greebo (Jan 7, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Especially old people.
> 
> Fuck them and their ailments....and pull along trolleys


And fuck anyone who isn't disabled/frail, tiny, or pregnant, but uses the priority seats;  are they crippled by shyness or is it selfishness this time?


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 7, 2015)

yeah...bus wars!


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## CH1 (Jan 7, 2015)

According to the biography on R4 this morning (repeated at 12.30 am Thursday) Robert Wyatt - of Soft Machine - married his first wife in Brixton. "_The wedding took place at Brixton Registry Office on 28 January 1969: Wyatt's twentyfourth birthday_".
Presumably they used the registry office at 340 Brixton Road, next to the Lambeth Accord. The building was subsequently used by SLAM/Lambeth PCT for Learning Difficulties community services, then sold to Lexadon who turned it back into residential for luxury rented flats.

Ironically the registry office in use subsequently in the 1980s/1990s - the one at 359 Brixton Road - was also bought by Lexdon for luxury flats - including the now demolished distinctive octagon marriage suite now being repaced by a bland modern bock (dealt with at length in Brixton Buzz)


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## boohoo (Jan 7, 2015)

CH1 said:


> According to the biography on R4 this morning (repeated at 12.30 am Thursday) Robert Wyatt - of Soft Machine - married his first wife in Brixton. "_The wedding took place at Brixton Registry Office on 28 January 1969: Wyatt's twentyfourth birthday_".
> Presumably they used the registry office at 340 Brixton Road, next to the Lambeth Accord. The building was subsequently used by SLAM/Lambeth PCT for Learning Difficulties community services, then sold to Lexadon who turned it back into residential for luxury rented flats.
> View attachment 66039
> Ironically the registry office in use subsequently in the 1980s/1990s - the one at 359 Brixton Road - was also bought by Lexdon for luxury flats - including the now demolished distinctive octagon marriage suite now being repaced by a bland modern bock (dealt with at length in Brixton Buzz)


my mum and dad got married here. My mates got married at the newer one.


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## Biscuits (Jan 8, 2015)

I’ve just received an out of office from the chap at Lambeth who is responsible for bike hanger installation. His out of office listed various alternative contacts followed by this gem of a sentence.
_“I don't intend spending hours and hours trailing through my emails on my return so if you are keen  that I see it please make a note to resend it week beginning 19 Jan.”

_


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 8, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> BBuzz piece here.
> 
> Summary: Owls, Aswad, cider please.


you can keep your owls. Can we have our horses and sheep back please!

(I've done the questionaire to say so to lambeth)


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 8, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> I am all in favour of ignoring the opinions of 16-25 year olds. Young people are loud, annoying & don't know they're born, etc. I'd probably increase the ignored age range to 16-35. Anyone who can't remember the 70's has nothing useful to add to the debate, unless the topic is Justin Bieber's latest hair style.


And the '70s were shit and we don't want to be reminded of them, thank you very much.



Nanker Phelge said:


> Especially old people.
> 
> Fuck them and their ailments....and pull along trolleys


Don't diss the trolleys!  trolleys rule!  trolleys of Brixton unite!  

You young'ens should mind your manners.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 8, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Changes planned for 415 bus route:
> 
> https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/route-415


Done. I look forward to taking my trolley on the 415 to the big shops on the Old Kent road.


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## editor (Jan 8, 2015)

Perhaps of interest...








Dr Bike gets busy fixing Brixton’s broken bicycles – find the next session near you here


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## EastEnder (Jan 8, 2015)

Who nicked all the funky baskets from Iceland??!!??! 

All those nifty ones with the pull up handle & wheels, ALL GONE! 

They've reverted to wire baskets, circa 1980....


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## editor (Jan 8, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> Who nicked all the funky baskets from Iceland??!!??!
> 
> All those nifty ones with the pull up handle & wheels, ALL GONE!
> 
> They've reverted to wire baskets, circa 1980....


They fit in better with the vintage retro nu-Brixton vibe. Ironic baskets. They'll be in all the cocktail bars soon, next to the jamjar drinks.


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## Greebo (Jan 8, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Done. I look forward to taking my trolley on the 415 to the big shops on the Old Kent road.


I'll see your trolley and raise you my far more manoueverable and less obstructive large rucksack!


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 8, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> Who nicked all the funky baskets from Iceland??!!??!
> 
> All those nifty ones with the pull up handle & wheels, ALL GONE!
> 
> They've reverted to wire baskets, circa 1980....


FFS! Obviously stolen by people who don't come prepared with their own trolleys.


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## Greebo (Jan 8, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> <snip> All those nifty ones with the pull up handle & wheels, ALL GONE!
> 
> They've reverted to wire baskets, circa 1980....


If you mean the Brixton branch, I'm sure they had the wheeled ones at the start of the week.  Oh wait, no, that was the West Norwood branch.

Scratch that, I was in Wing Tai on Wednesday, went around Brixton Iceland afterwards, and they had wheeled baskets then.


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## EastEnder (Jan 8, 2015)

Greebo said:


> If you mean the Brixton branch, I'm sure they had the wheeled ones at the start of the week.  Oh wait, no, that was the West Norwood branch.
> 
> Scratch that, I was in Wing Tai on Wednesday, went around Brixton Iceland afterwards, and they had wheeled baskets then.


My info is 24 hours out of date - went to Iceland last night, around about 7 or 8, and all the nifty baskets had been usurped by crappy old wire ones. I didn't enquire to the staff as to the reason or whether it was a permanent change, but they were definitely knackered old wire baskets...


----------



## Greebo (Jan 8, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> <snip> I didn't enquire to the staff as to the reason or whether it was a permanent change, but they were definitely knackered old wire baskets...


Drat!*  Their trollies do my back in, and the wire baskets don't hold enough if you buy bread or frozen veg.

*So annoyed that I've had to resort to non swearing.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 8, 2015)

editor said:


> They fit in better with the vintage retro nu-Brixton vibe. Ironic baskets. They'll be in all the cocktail bars soon, next to the jamjar drinks.


Indeed, the wall lights at 384 on Coldharbour Lane are exactly such baskets filled with old bulbs. I quite like them but I am usually wrong about such things.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 8, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Changes planned for 415 bus route:
> 
> https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/route-415



filled this in yesterday.. this extension gives a direct bus route between me and my in-laws.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 8, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> filled this in yesterday.. this extension gives a direct bus route between me and my in-laws.



total bummer, man!


----------



## EastEnder (Jan 8, 2015)

Clash of the evil developers!






Seems the evil ones who turned Clifton Mansions into expensive flats take exception to fellow evil ones trying to build more expensive flats next door....


----------



## Rushy (Jan 8, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> Clash of the evil developers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The applicant is Soner of the Phoenix (and developer of Soner Square). Have not looked but presumably the old Phoenix site?


----------



## Manter (Jan 8, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> you can keep your owls. Can we have our horses and sheep back please!
> 
> (I've done the questionaire to say so to lambeth)


There were sheep last year! My son *adored* them


----------



## Manter (Jan 8, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> filled this in yesterday.. this extension gives a direct bus route between me and my in-laws.


It must be stopped


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 8, 2015)

Manter said:


> It must be stopped


----------



## editor (Jan 8, 2015)




----------



## editor (Jan 9, 2015)

The 414 was surprisingly fantastic tonight. Really good crowd who kept partying till 4am.  Great night!


----------



## Greebo (Jan 9, 2015)

editor said:


> View attachment 66056


No change there then.


----------



## tompound (Jan 9, 2015)

editor said:


> View attachment 66056



Wrong currency there Ed ;-)


----------



## Flower Love (Jan 9, 2015)

Happy New Year FridgeMagnet


----------



## CH1 (Jan 10, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> Clash of the evil developers!
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Rushy said:


> The applicant is Soner of the Phoenix (and developer of Soner Square). Have not looked but presumably the old Phoenix site?


I noted an objection from the owner of Bookmongers to a development on this site lodged before Christmas.

Maybe some pause for thought rather than total cynicism is required.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 10, 2015)

Something has been worrying me lately.
There is a Kalmars "Offices To let" sign in Jellyfish's window.
Surely they aren't moving out already?


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Jan 10, 2015)

Anyone know how much a pay-as-you-go swim is at the Rec now? Looked online and can only find information about various membership plans.


----------



## editor (Jan 10, 2015)

Maker's market is on today on Station Rd: 











http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2015/01/makers-market-at-brixton-station-road-today-photos/


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 10, 2015)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Anyone know how much a pay-as-you-go swim is at the Rec now? Looked online and can only find information about various membership plans.



£4.10


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 10, 2015)

Manter said:


> There were sheep last year! My son *adored* them


Sorry I forgot - they were being sheared weren't they. I was recalling them being rounded up by a sheepdog - better than ducks/geese.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 10, 2015)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Anyone know how much a pay-as-you-go swim is at the Rec now? Looked online and can only find information about various membership plans.





gaijingirl said:


> £4.10


I was thinking about a swim too... haven't been in years - can anyone recommend a good quiet time to go? I don't work weekday afternoons


----------



## Rushy (Jan 10, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> I was thinking about a swim too... haven't been in years - can anyone recommend a good quiet time to go? I don't work weekday afternoons


Surely it's never busy at this time of year?!

ETA. Misread that you were referring to the Lido!


----------



## colacubes (Jan 10, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> I was thinking about a swim too... haven't been in years - can anyone recommend a good quiet time to go? I don't work weekday afternoons



Around 3pm is a good time. Post schools classes and pre kids after school.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 10, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> I was thinking about a swim too... haven't been in years - can anyone recommend a good quiet time to go? I don't work weekday afternoons


I use the gym about 4:30 in the afternoons and it looks over the pool which is practically empty at that time


----------



## Manter (Jan 10, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Sorry I forgot - they were being sheared weren't they. I was recalling them being rounded up by a sheepdog - better than ducks/geese.


They were 'shown' too. A man with a megaphone talked with great relish about their bollocks while we were there


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks, gaijingirl, cheaper than I expected. No excuses now.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 10, 2015)

I think £4.10 is slightly too steep for a stroll up and swim session. £3.50 would seem more reasonable.

Anyone remember the promise for "free swimming for every resident"?

From 2010 manifesto:


----------



## leanderman (Jan 11, 2015)

I paid £2 for a swim yesterday at 2..30pm


----------



## editor (Jan 11, 2015)

Look at this horrible thing. Are they allowed just to stick them up were they feel like it then?


----------



## AnotherAmbition (Jan 11, 2015)

editor said:


> Look at this horrible thing. Are they allowed just to stick them up were they feel like it then?
> 
> View attachment 66200



Shame its a charging one but the Nearest cash point is fairly far from the many cash only businesses in the village so I imagine it will be a welcome addition for the many cash only businesses there.


----------



## editor (Jan 11, 2015)

AnotherAmbition said:


> Shame its a charging one but the Nearest cash point is fairly far from the many cash only businesses in the village so I imagine it will be a welcome addition for the many cash only businesses there.


There's a cash point next to the 414 almost opposite this monstrosity. And there's another one a short walk the other way down Coldharbour Lane.


----------



## Ms T (Jan 11, 2015)

editor said:


> There's a cash point next to the 414 almost opposite this monstrosity. And there's another one a short walk the other way down Coldharbour Lane.


Presumably they all charge for withdrawals (and maybe this one does too)?


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 11, 2015)

leanderman said:


> I paid £2 for a swim yesterday at 2..30pm



That would be with the membership card? I think its £4.20 now without membership card. (Which is not that cheap).


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 11, 2015)

editor said:


> Look at this horrible thing. Are they allowed just to stick them up were they feel like it then?
> 
> View attachment 66200



Its where the telephone box used to be. So I guess its got planning permission for that spot. 

It is a particularly ugly addition to the street.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 11, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> I think £4.10 is slightly too steep for a stroll up and swim session. £3.50 would seem more reasonable.
> 
> Anyone remember the promise for "free swimming for every resident"?
> 
> From 2010 manifesto:



Pricing at Brixton Rec is an issue. Brixton has a high number of users who use it on payg basis and not on DD membership. Its a sign of an area that has a lot of people who are not that well off. Who do not want the commitment of DD. Other GLL/ Better run sports centres in London have majority who on DD memberships. 

There is a membership card that gives discounts on swimming at certain times. But its not that cheap to buy. 

So I think pricing needs to be rethought. A cheaper Lambeth residents card would help.

We keep getting told that people do not exercise enough that the physical and psychological benefits are good. But the pricing of activities does limit people imo.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 11, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> I think £4.10 is slightly too steep for a stroll up and swim session. £3.50 would seem more reasonable.
> 
> Anyone remember the promise for "free swimming for every resident"?
> 
> From 2010 manifesto:



I need to check but I think free swimming for over 60s has know been stopped.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 11, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> I need to check but I think free swimming for over 60s has know been stopped.



yes it has.. my mum used to have a free swimming card - it stopped quite a number of years ago.. maybe 4/5?


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 11, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> yes it has.. my mum used to have a free swimming card - it stopped quite a number of years ago.. maybe 4/5?



It did make a difference. I saw less older people swimming.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 11, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> That would be with the membership card? I think its £4.20 now without membership card. (Which is not that cheap).



True. £37 annual adult membership (£5.50 for u-16s).

You'd have to swim 17 times a year to break even.

But then you'd also get other facilities cheaper. 

Paid £10 for a badminton court once. With membership it's £3 or something.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 11, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> I was thinking about a swim too... haven't been in years - can anyone recommend a good quiet time to go? I don't work weekday afternoons


1-2 can be pretty quiet, but it depends on when the school groups are in.


Gramsci said:


> Pricing at Brixton Rec is an issue. Brixton has a high number of users who use it on payg basis and not on DD membership. Its a sign of an area that has a lot of people who are not that well off. Who do not want the commitment of DD. Other GLL/ Better run sports centres in London have majority who on DD memberships. <snip>


FWIW I get the low income discounted PAYG membership card for £5 a  year.  This gets free swimming at offpeak hours (when you can expect to be entertained by yelling from those teaching the school groups (and school goups also tend to expect you to move out of their way if their instructor decides that the training pool or the entry area is too crowded or shallow to use), a reduced rate swim the rest of the time, and IIRC no reduction on anything else.  No way can I afford any of the group or gym sessions.

This might sound generous, but people running the Rec forget that getting to and from the Rec isn't free (or half price) for all its low income users, nor is it a comfortably walkable distance there and back.


----------



## se5 (Jan 11, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> I think £4.10 is slightly too steep for a stroll up and swim session. £3.50 would seem more reasonable.
> 
> Anyone remember the promise for "free swimming for every resident"?
> 
> From 2010 manifesto:



Was this ever implemented fully? I seem to remember talking to a Lib Dem shortly after the 2010 election who said it wasnt worth anything because only Brixton pool was open at that time but now that Streatham and Clapham are open again could I turn up and demand my free swim? Or (more likely) would I be met with blank looks at the swimming pools?


----------



## leanderman (Jan 11, 2015)

Greebo said:


> 1-2 can be pretty quiet, but it depends on when the school groups are in.
> 
> FWIW I get the low income discounted PAYG membership card for £5 a  year.  This gets free swimming at offpeak hours (when you can expect to be entertained by yelling from those teaching the school groups (and school goups also tend to expect you to move out of their way if their instructor decides that the training pool or the entry area is too crowded or shallow to use), a reduced rate swim the rest of the time, and IIRC no reduction on anything else.
> No way can I afford any of the group or gym sessions.
> This might sound generous, but people running the Rec forget that getting to and from the Rec isn't free (or half price) for all its low income users, nor is it a comfortably walkable distance there and back.



That sounds quite positive though - £5 a year for free swimming. 

I expect you do get other reductions - at least my PAYG membership does.

Not sure what the Rec can do about transport!


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 11, 2015)

leanderman said:


> True. £37 annual adult membership (£5.50 for u-16s).
> 
> You'd have to swim 17 times a year to break even.
> 
> ...



Is that membership card just for the Rec or is it across Better centres?


----------



## SpamMisery (Jan 11, 2015)

Just googled the PAYG price across the country and £4.10 seems pretty good value to me


----------



## leanderman (Jan 11, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> Is that membership card just for the Rec or is it across Better centres?



Across. Same benefits at Better centres in your area.

We have a family membership, two adults and three kids for £50 (I think)


----------



## Greebo (Jan 11, 2015)

leanderman said:


> That sounds quite positive though - £5 a year for free swimming.
> 
> I expect you do get other reductions - at least my PAYG membership does. <snip>


Concessionary membership:  Swimming's free offpeak, discounted at other times.  Other facilities have a discount, but are basically unaffordable (to me).


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 11, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Across. Same benefits at Better centres in your area.
> 
> We have a family membership, two adults and three kids for £50 (I think)



oh right.. so will I get the discount on the swim at any time of day then - or just off peak?  And what kind of discount do you get on kids' swimming lessons (I'm actually swimming tomorrow am, so can ask then!  Sorry to treat you like a Better sales person).


----------



## Winot (Jan 11, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> oh right.. so will I get the discount on the swim at any time of day then?  And what kind of discount do you get on kids' swimming lessons (I'm actually swimming tomorrow am, so can ask then!  Sorry to treat you like a Better sales person).



He's more informative than a Better sales person tbh.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 11, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> oh right.. so will I get the discount on the swim at any time of day then - or just off peak?  And what kind of discount do you get on kids' swimming lessons (I'm actually swimming tomorrow am, so can ask then!  Sorry to treat you like a Better sales person).



No discount on kids' swimming lessons I think.

Otherwise, the discounts are bigger off peak.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 11, 2015)

leanderman said:


> No discount on kids' swimming lessons I think.
> 
> Otherwise, the discounts are bigger off peak.



ok thanks..


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 12, 2015)

se5 said:


> Was this ever implemented fully? I seem to remember talking to a Lib Dem shortly after the 2010 election who said it wasnt worth anything because only Brixton pool was open at that time but now that Streatham and Clapham are open again could I turn up and demand my free swim? Or (more likely) would I be met with blank looks at the swimming pools?



Of course it was never implemented. It was simply there to tart up the manifesto.


----------



## Winot (Jan 12, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> ok thanks..



Worth pointing out though that if your kids have swimming lessons then they get in free to swim the rest of the time.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 12, 2015)

Winot said:


> Worth pointing out though that if your kids have swimming lessons then they get in free to swim the rest of the time.



oh really?  I didn't know that and when I've shown their membership cards they've only been given a small discount - not completely free swimming!  Right - I'm having words in a little while with the Better crew... 

Thanks


----------



## Winot (Jan 12, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> oh really?  I didn't know that and when I've shown their membership cards they've only been given a small discount - not completely free swimming!  Right - I'm having words in a little while with the Better crew...
> 
> Thanks



I've never seen it written down anywhere but Mrs W assures me it's true and it has always worried when I've tried it. 

Could be part of the general randomness though.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 12, 2015)

Winot said:


> Worth pointing out though that if your kids have swimming lessons then they get in free to swim the rest of the time.


Not just that, but under 16s get free swimming on Saturday mornings (possibly Sunday too, but I couldn't swear to it).


----------



## leanderman (Jan 12, 2015)

Winot said:


> I've never seen it written down anywhere but Mrs W assures me it's true and it has always worried when I've tried it.
> 
> Could be part of the general randomness though.



It is true.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 12, 2015)

Right - one membership bought for me this morning - could've been using it all along - I'm in the places almost daily between me and the kids -   Also confirmed that I didn't need to pay for the kids - I'm annoyed about that because I did specifically ask when I took them and just got a very small discount - not free swimming.  

Good idea for them because now I'll probably cut down some of my badminton games from other, non-Better, clubs to Better and take some exercise classes there in place of other stuff.

anyway - thanks for the tips.

and Greebo - numerous times we've been Sat/Sun mornings and not got free swimming for the kids.. 

I actually have just come out of an 8 month long running dispute with Better - they owed me nearly £200!  long story but really, it's a full time job just keeping on top of their uselessness...

although to be fair, the woman in the sports centre today was lovely and I've met some really nice staff working in their centres (along with some arseholes) who I imagine feel similarly frustrated.


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2015)

Would anyone be prepared to summarise all of the above (re: swimming costs)? It sees that it's something worth sharing on B Buzz!


----------



## choochi (Jan 12, 2015)

Does anyone know if the soft play at the Rec any good for a one and a two year-old?


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 12, 2015)

choochi said:


> Does anyone know if the soft play at the Rec any good for a one and a two year-old?



as good, if not better, than any other soft play at that age and cheaper.  There's a small baby section for the 1 year old and a large frame structure for the 2 year old (my 2 year old loves it and I'm happy to let her go in by herself but she's fairly confident).  What I like about it compared to places such as Gambados/Eddie Katz etc, is that it's small enough to be able to see your children but still large enough for them to enjoy.  Also it's miles cheaper.  You can't eat/drink inside but there are little tables and chairs outside for lunch/snacks.  It looks older/tireder than the commercial ones but we've always found it much better for our family.  Don't go from 3pm onwards (with children that age) as various after school clubs take their kids there so it can get very boisterous with much older kids.


----------



## choochi (Jan 12, 2015)

Great, thanks gaijingirl I'll give it a go in the morning then.


----------



## Winot (Jan 12, 2015)

editor said:


> Would anyone be prepared to summarise all of the above (re: swimming costs)? It sees that it's something worth sharing on B Buzz!


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 12, 2015)

choochi said:


> Great, thanks gaijingirl I'll give it a go in the morning then.



many people do prefer the shinier, commercial Soft Plays - but we really like the Rec.. even going up the slope the kids get excited...

my eldest yesterday.. "I love Brixton most of all because it's got soft play AND lots of people drive around in cars with music on really loudly so you can hear it outside the car".  She pretty much dances her way through the market to the Rec, getting free fruit from charmed stallholders and loves it.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 12, 2015)

Winot said:


>



actual   here


----------



## Greebo (Jan 12, 2015)

Winot said:


>


Or, it's completely and utterly Lambeth.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 12, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> Right - one membership bought for me this morning - could've been using it all along - I'm in the places almost daily between me and the kids -   Also confirmed that I didn't need to pay for the kids - I'm annoyed about that because I did specifically ask when I took them and just got a very small discount - not free swimming.
> 
> <snip>numerous times we've been Sat/Sun mornings and not got free swimming for the kids..  <snip>


In spite of the poster I've seen on the noticeboard by the entry to the pool's changing rooms?  FFS!  *packs camera for next visit, which will be used nowhere near anyone changing*


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 12, 2015)

Greebo said:


> In spite of the poster I've seen on the noticeboard by the entry to the pool's changing rooms?  FFS!  *packs camera for next visit, which will be used nowhere near anyone changing*



to be fair - we've taken them to a number of different Better leisure centres - and I must start reading more posters and paying better attention in general... 

(edited for accuracy)


----------



## Greebo (Jan 12, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> to be fair - we've generally taken them to other Better leisure centres - and I must start reading more posters and paying better attention in general...


Tbf I'm sure that almost any other Better leisure centre is better.   It's like an animal that you feel really bad about chasing off, but it doesn't half drive you to it at times.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 12, 2015)

Greebo said:


> Tbf I'm sure that almost any other Better leisure centre is better.   It's like an animal that you feel really bad about kicking chasing off, but it doesn't half drive you to it at times.



yes.. I edited actually because thinking about it, it's probably been split fairly evenly between CP/WN/Brixton up until now with the kids (with me using a bunch of others depending on stuff) but the older one has her lessons at Brixton from this week so it'll be Brixton more from now on.  

CP is appalling (although I love the pool)!  WN so far I've been really impressed with (apart from the usual brand-new showers breaking down etc type stuff).


----------



## SpamMisery (Jan 12, 2015)

That escher pic is not too dissimilar to how the inside of the rec feels to me, what with the exposed staircases


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 12, 2015)

Don't think I feel like having a swim any more.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 12, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Don't think I feel like having a swim any more.




It's not bad at certain times of day, you just need to decide whether your prefer pottering around in the unlaned area, clear lanes, or less shouting.
Getting the timing right is tricky, but it can be done.  BTW Friday evening is women only.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 12, 2015)

Greebo said:


> It's not bad at certain times of day, you just need to decide whether your prefer pottering around in the unlaned area, clear lanes, or less shouting.
> Getting the timing right is tricky, but it can be done.  BTW Friday evening is women only.


Friday sounds more fun to me. Mind you haven't been swimming in years and may prevaricate a bit longer...


----------



## Greebo (Jan 12, 2015)

Well don't make your first session during the school holidays - you've been warned.


----------



## T & P (Jan 12, 2015)

Just join the Lido swimming club. You'll get used to the cold water. Eventually. If you don't have a heart condition.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 12, 2015)

T & P said:


> Just join the Lido swimming club. You'll get used to the cold water. Eventually. If you don't have a heart condition.


Nah - you're fine.  I wouldn't want to overcrowd it.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 13, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> many people do prefer the shinier, commercial Soft Plays - but we really like the Rec.. even going up the slope the kids get excited...
> 
> my eldest yesterday.. "I love Brixton most of all because it's got soft play AND lots of people drive around in cars with music on really loudly so you can hear it outside the car".  She pretty much dances her way through the market to the Rec, getting free fruit from charmed stallholders and loves it.



Brixton Rec is used by a lot more younger and older children than other Lambeth centres. Its the only one with a Youth Zone and soft play area. 

Interesting what you say about Rec. If/ when its refurbished I think it should keep emphasis on activities that younger children can use.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 13, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Friday sounds more fun to me. Mind you haven't been swimming in years and may prevaricate a bit longer...



The last few hours of Saturday are usually quiet. (6 to 8pm). As are Sunday early afternoons around 2pm to 4pm.

It is a friendly pool to swim in. The non lane section is quite big if you just want to try swimming again.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 13, 2015)

As we are on the Rec. What do people think of Betters works to entrance?

The cafe has gone. Apparently Better think the new vending machines are healthy option food.

The vending machine coffee is £1.50

I will be sticking to cafes opposite Rec. They are cheaper.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 13, 2015)

Surprised this hasn't appeared on here yet or did I miss it?

http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/c...owers-are-a-price-we-have-to-pay-9967589.html



> Yet I’m not sure gentrification is such a bad thing, to judge from my my old  ’hood, Brixton. Less than a decade ago, the area was seriously blighted by crime. In 2001, local police took me on a tour of the centre: “It’s a drug supermarket,” admitted one officer.
> 
> Last week I had a beer with a friend at the new Wahaca on Atlantic Road. Local campaigners have complained bitterly about new flats and the Mexican restaurant below. Yet the building it’s in, the old railway hotel, had sat empty and derelict for 15 years.
> 
> Likewise there have been grumbles over the transformation of Brixton market and Granville Arcade. Both have been transformed from dusty backwaters into foodie hotspots. Rents may have gone up, but central Brixton is now a place you might actually want to go even when you don’t have to.


 
Judging by his twitter address, his new "hood" is Herne Hill.

@hernehillandy if anyone should feel like taking issues with any of the above.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 13, 2015)

Dusty backwaters.

Seriously blighted by crime.

Really?


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Surprised this hasn't appeared on here yet or did I miss it?
> 
> http://www.standard.co.uk/comment/c...owers-are-a-price-we-have-to-pay-9967589.html
> 
> ...


It's a highly selective "analysis":


> Last week I had a beer with a friend at the new Wahaca on Atlantic Road. Local campaigners have complained bitterly about new flats and the Mexican restaurant below. Yet the building it’s in, the old railway hotel, had sat empty and derelict for 15 years.


 Shame he didn't think to ask _why_ it was left empty for 15 years.

And so on...


----------



## Winot (Jan 13, 2015)

He's an Evening Standard journalist. leanderman is a big fan [emoji57]


----------



## se5 (Jan 13, 2015)

So is it 'carnage' on the tube as a result of the bus strike today? The Guardian features a tweet of Brixton tube station looking quite busy   http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/13/london-bus-strike-hits-commuters


----------



## colacubes (Jan 13, 2015)

se5 said:


> So is it 'carnage' on the tube as a result of the bus strike today? The Guardian features a tweet of Brixton tube station looking quite busy   http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jan/13/london-bus-strike-hits-commuters



That's just business as usual as they're doing escalator works so it's carnage every morning atm.


----------



## se5 (Jan 13, 2015)

colacubes said:


> That's just business as usual as they're doing escalator works so it's carnage every morning atm.



Thats what I thought

Its shocking that some bus drivers are only paid £9.30 an hour - http://www.unitetheunion.org/news/p...bus-drivers-on-eve-of-london-wide-bus-strike/


----------



## CH1 (Jan 13, 2015)

teuchter said:


> @hernehillandy if anyone should feel like taking issues with any of the above.


I looked at the account. He mainly retweets.

There was something from David Lammy about 9.5 billion of housing benefits to landlords which could have been used for social housing. 

Maybe Herne Hill Andy has a socially concerned side too?


----------



## leanderman (Jan 13, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I looked at the account. He mainly retweets.
> 
> There was something from David Lammy about 9.5 billion of housing benefits to landlords which could have been used for social housing.
> 
> Maybe Herne Hill Andy has a socially concerned side too?



He is 'left-leaning'. And, as he is an occasional wine writer,  the very model of the champagne socialist.


----------



## story (Jan 13, 2015)

Mobile phone coverage question:

I've been with EE for years. I'm on Brixton Hill near the prison. Never had any problems with phone coverage but it's really deteriorated in the last week. Anyone else have if this issue?

What can I do about it?


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 13, 2015)

Good to see that the Country Show will remain FREE for 2015.

BBuzz piece.


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 13, 2015)

The 18m x 6m Caribbean / Jerk site cost - that seems like a massive stall - are there any that size? 

Or is it a silly interpretation of 'any' food stall - I don't seem to understand how can they attempt to charge one type of food more than another?


----------



## T & P (Jan 13, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> Good to see that the Country Show will remain FREE for 2015.
> 
> BBuzz piece.


Not sure even Lambeth Council would have the balls to change that tbh...


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 13, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> As we are on the Rec. What do people think of Betters works to entrance?
> 
> The cafe has gone. Apparently Better think the new vending machines are healthy option food.
> 
> ...



I'm sad to see the cafe go tbh as it was useful when using soft play.  That being said, I didn't use if often and it never seemed busy so I can understand if it was losing money.  There are so many good cafes on that road that there is plenty of choice there for food - and I never really bought food there anyway - the odd patty, maybe some juice for the kids.  Most parents bring packed lunches/snacks.

I can't seem using the vending machines at all.

Is the creche staying?  It doesn't seem to be open now and it would be really handy if it was open for me for the next little few months.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2015)

T & P said:


> Not sure even Lambeth Council would have the balls to change that tbh...


I wouldn't put money on that - all they'd have to do is frame is along the lines of, "we'd have to cut [this essential service] if we can't charge.." etc.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 13, 2015)

I'm surprised they've not already started charging for it personally.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2015)

Fuck's sake. There's another almighty Apple advert covering up some pleasant local architecture.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 13, 2015)

Must have been past that twice today - never noticed it.


----------



## SpamMisery (Jan 13, 2015)

editor said:


> Fuck's sake. There's another almighty Apple advert covering up some pleasant local architecture.
> 
> View attachment 66304



Brixton High Street is turning into a low tech Leicester Sq! Are there not windows behind there?


----------



## CH1 (Jan 13, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> Brixton High Street is turning into a low tech Leicester Sq! Are there not windows behind there?


Its more a case of the applicant cannot read.
The application for this temporary advertising sign, pending the building work on the Premier Inn says "NO" but the man from Premier Inn he say "YES"


----------



## leanderman (Jan 13, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Its more a case of the applicant cannot read.
> The application for this temporary advertising sign, pending the building work on the Premier Inn says "NO" but the man from Premier Inn he say "YES"



What news on that supposed hotel?


----------



## CH1 (Jan 13, 2015)

leanderman said:


> What news on that supposed hotel?


I don't have any. The application was granted in 2013 - and the same people seem to be responsible for this advertising wheeze - so I guess the hotel is still in gestation.
Unless anyone else knows more?


----------



## T & P (Jan 13, 2015)

Is that canvas flammable?


----------



## CH1 (Jan 13, 2015)

T & P said:


> Is that canvas flammable?


There speaks a true Brixtonite!


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Jan 13, 2015)

editor said:


> Fuck's sake. There's another almighty Apple advert covering up some pleasant local architecture.
> 
> View attachment 66304


  It's been there for a while - I was observing the progress of the frame: they have drilled into the old Woolies stonework façade .


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Jan 14, 2015)

Can anybody tell me where I might be able to buy a stove top coffee pot in Brixton?
I seem to remember traipsing all over the place with no luck last time I wanted one so a little direction in this matter would be useful


----------



## ash (Jan 14, 2015)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Can anybody tell me where I might be able to buy a stove top coffee pot in Brixton?
> I seem to remember traipsing all over the place with no luck last time I wanted one so a little direction in this matter would be useful


Morleys or the hardware shop on Atlantic rd or possibly argos or the Portugese shop on Atlantic rd or possibly (expensive brindisa)


----------



## Manter (Jan 14, 2015)

I'd try the shop on the right inside the Pope's road entrance to the Village


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 14, 2015)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Can anybody tell me where I might be able to buy a stove top coffee pot in Brixton?
> I seem to remember traipsing all over the place with no luck last time I wanted one so a little direction in this matter would be useful



The Algerian grocery store just underneath Brixton rec.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 14, 2015)

uk benzo said:


> The Algerian grocery store just underneath Brixton rec.



ooh.. they do this amazing fresh stuffed flatbread/pancake stuff - a meat one and a veggie one.. totally addictive and cheap.  I'm sure it has a proper name.


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 14, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> ooh.. they do this amazing fresh stuffed flatbread/pancake stuff - a meat one and a veggie one.. totally addictive and cheap.  I'm sure it has a proper name.



Msemen?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Msemen

ETA- pronounced Immsaman


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 14, 2015)

uk benzo said:


> Msemen?
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Msemen
> 
> ETA- pronounced Immsaman



ah.. well done - that looks right!  I will look very knowledgeable when I next get some now! Thanks.


----------



## Ms T (Jan 14, 2015)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Can anybody tell me where I might be able to buy a stove top coffee pot in Brixton?
> I seem to remember traipsing all over the place with no luck last time I wanted one so a little direction in this matter would be useful


A&C Continental definitely sells them.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 14, 2015)

editor said:


> Fuck's sake. There's another almighty Apple advert covering up some pleasant local architecture.
> 
> View attachment 66304



For the Post Code that is the Woolworth's Store there is no planning application ->



Did someone start a thread for listing the failures of enforcement by Lambeth Planning?


----------



## CH1 (Jan 14, 2015)

ricbake said:


> For the Post Code that is the Woolworth's Store there is no planning application ->
> 
> View attachment 66345
> 
> Did someone start a thread for listing the failures of enforcement by Lambeth Planning?


The officer's report on the application is here.
The application was refused.

EDITED: The link has gone walkies - I'll get the ref no. back shortly!


----------



## boohoo (Jan 14, 2015)

editor said:


> Fuck's sake. There's another almighty Apple advert covering up some pleasant local architecture.
> 
> View attachment 66304



The add has been up for a while - noticed it last week. Really frustrating that this is happening.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2015)

boohoo said:


> The add has been up for a while - noticed it last week. Really frustrating that this is happening.


I only just noticed it. I think the other hideous one on Electric Avenue is still there too.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 14, 2015)

Application number for the Brixton Road sign is 14/05574/ADV
http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...CaseNumber=002WZ1BOBU000&keyVal=NDFN9QBO67000


----------



## boohoo (Jan 14, 2015)

editor said:


> I only just noticed it. I think the other hideous one on Electric Avenue is still there too.



I wonder how many more will go up!


----------



## ricbake (Jan 14, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Application number for the Brixton Road sign is 14/05574/ADV
> http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...CaseNumber=002WZ1BOBU000&keyVal=NDFN9QBO67000



The fact the building has two different postcodes threw me but this quite definitely says don't put a bloody great sign up there!!!


g


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 14, 2015)

So how do we get it taken down?


----------



## leanderman (Jan 14, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> So how do we get it taken down?



I nimbily complained to Lambeth enforcement about ridiculous signs outside a nearby pub and they were removed very quickly.


----------



## EastEnder (Jan 14, 2015)

boohoo said:


> I wonder how many more will go up!


Depends on when the iPhone 7 comes out...


----------



## ricbake (Jan 14, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> So how do we get it taken down?


The next planning committee meeting is in room 8 the town hall on the 27th January - perhaps a bit of lobbying...

Katy Shaw Tel: 020 7926 2225 Email:  kshaw3@lambeth.gov.uk


----------



## teuchter (Jan 14, 2015)

I suggest that any iphone owners amongst us gather in Windrush sq and burn the iphones in a bonfire in protest at the advert. That will show them.


----------



## EastEnder (Jan 14, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I suggest that any iphone owners amongst us gather in Windrush sq and burn the iphones in a bonfire in protest at the advert. That will show them.


You can't burn them!!  Do you have any idea how many poor indentured Chinese workers slaved away on 12 hour shifts for 4p an hour in squalid factories to make those iPhones??!! They'll wonder why they ever bothered...


----------



## T & P (Jan 14, 2015)

Even the Nazis drew the line at burning iPhones. Can't we burn some books instead?


----------



## Winot (Jan 14, 2015)

T & P said:


> Even the Nazis drew the line at burning iPhones. Can't we burn some books instead?



^^ Post of the Year (so far).


----------



## boohoo (Jan 14, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I suggest that any iphone owners amongst us gather in Windrush sq and burn the iphones in a bonfire in protest at the advert. That will show them.



you can go first.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 14, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> So how do we get it taken down?


There was someone with a very professional looking camera on a tripod taking photos of the sign from outside NatWest about an hour ago (3.15pm).


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2015)

CH1 said:


> There was someone with a very professional looking camera on a tripod taking photos of the sign from outside NatWest about an hour ago (3.15pm).


what sort of hair were they sporting?


----------



## CH1 (Jan 14, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> what sort of hair were they sporting?


I don't think it was editor - unless he has changed a lot recently


----------



## jamn (Jan 14, 2015)

Hi. I'm new to this forum. I'm here as I'm looking for help. I'm in need of two cooks to work with me at a "pop up" residency at a pub in Clapham/Brixton for Feb and March.
Does anyone have any suggestions how best I can go about my quest? I have no clue whether it is ok posting what I guess is sort of an add as a thread.
Would really appreciate any help!!


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2015)

jamn said:


> Hi. I'm new to this forum. I'm here as I'm looking for help. I'm in need of two cooks to work with me at a "pop up" residency at a pub in Clapham/Brixton for Feb and March.
> Does anyone have any suggestions how best I can go about my quest? I have no clue whether it is ok posting what I guess is sort of an add as a thread.
> Would really appreciate any help!!


Hello and welcome, You can start a thread in the Brixton Noticeboard forum to advertise the jobs.


----------



## jamn (Jan 14, 2015)

Great. Thank you


----------



## jamn (Jan 14, 2015)

editor said:


> Hello and welcome, You can start a thread in the Brixton Noticeboard forum to advertise the jobs.


great. thank you


----------



## Flower Love (Jan 14, 2015)

Im going to rant now, not impressed! What is the actual point of Brixton Blog and who do they assist? I am a lifelong resident of Lambeth, worked as a Youth Community Development Manager here for 17 years and now run my own florist business. They have completely ignored all of my e mail requests, press release etc and I am not happy! They receive Lambeth funds to help Lambeth but seem more concerned with paying their own wage/mortgages etc through their suspicious "crowd funding". Prob two posh twat's living off daddies funds! If i'm wrong please tell me but personally they have done nothing, unlike Urban 75 who actually seem to be here to genuinely help? Thank you Urban 75! RANT OVER!


----------



## Flower Love (Jan 14, 2015)

editor said:


> It has indeed. I've been in touch and I'm hoping to run a feature.


Thats great news! The Soup Kitchen deserves all the help they can get. Amazing work.


----------



## Flower Love (Jan 14, 2015)

That rant really helped. I shall now go back to arranging some flowers.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 14, 2015)

T & P said:


> Even the Nazis drew the line at burning iPhones. Can't we burn some books instead?





T & P said:


> Is that canvas flammable?



synchronicity?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 14, 2015)

Flower Love said:


> Im going to rant now, not impressed! What is the actual point of Brixton Blog and who do they assist? I am a lifelong resident of Lambeth, worked as a Youth Community Development Manager here for 17 years and now run my own florist business. They have completely ignored all of my e mail requests, press release etc and I am not happy! They receive Lambeth funds to help Lambeth but seem more concerned with paying their own wage/mortgages etc through their suspicious "crowd funding". Prob two posh twat's living off daddies funds! If i'm wrong please tell me but personally they have done nothing, unlike Urban 75 who actually seem to be here to genuinely help? Thank you Urban 75! RANT OVER!


editor clearly pays you well


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 14, 2015)

I don't often drink in the Albert these days - only high days and holidays now, usually to meet someone, for the free music or occasionally for respite when trying to drag buscador aound the shops. It was never the best pub in town for real beer but there was usually something drinkable and cheap on the hand pump. 
Now there isn't. 
What is the Albert up to? aren't they a Green King pub, so why no real ale? I like the place but £4.90 for a pint of Punk IPA - I wouldn't normally drink the stuff due to '70 style sexist adverts but there was bugger all else. It was so awful - I couldn't even finish it! I can't stand lager. What is a poor bitter drinker supposed to drink in there now?  
Help!


----------



## CH1 (Jan 14, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> I don't often drink in the Albert these days - only high days and holidays now, usually to meet someone, for the free music or occasionally for respite when trying to drag buscador aound the shops. It was never the best pub in town for real beer but there was usually something drinkable and cheap on the hand pump.
> Now there isn't.
> What is the Albert up to? aren't they a Green King pub, so why no real ale? I like the place but £4.90 for a pint of Punk IPA - I wouldn't normally drink the stuff due to '70 style sexist adverts but there was bugger all else. It was so awful - I couldn't even finish it! I can't stand lager. What is a poor bitter drinker supposed to drink in there now?
> Help!


The Albert used to serve Greene King IPA under pressure. Not ideal, I know. Have they stopped doing that now?


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2015)

teuchter said:


> editor clearly pays you well


Ha ha ha zzzzzzzzzzz.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 14, 2015)

CH1 said:


> The Albert used to serve Greene King IPA under pressure. Not ideal, I know. Have they stopped doing that now?


Well there wasn't any Green King ales I recall, when I went along to xmas urbz meet. Only ipas on new fancy taps. I tried 2 or 3 and they were hidiously gassy and not to my taste. You were there - what did you find to drink?


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 14, 2015)

Pretty shit: suspected arson destroys shelter by Brocwell Park tennis courts.

BBuzz brief story.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 14, 2015)

The Albert used to have John Smiths as well, but Punk IPA is ok, the booze is normally terrible in the albert.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 14, 2015)

sleaterkinney said:


> The Albert used to have John Smiths as well, but Punk IPA is ok, the booze is normally terrible in the albert.


 Punk IPA is nearly a fiver - that's not ok for me.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 14, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Punk IPA is nearly a fiver - that's not ok for me.


I got a round a while back in weatherspoons and just stood there in shock, I'd forgotten drinks could be cheap.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 14, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> Pretty shit: suspected arson destroys shelter by Brocwell Park tennis courts.
> 
> BBuzz brief story.



Playing tennis this morning, I noticed it had gone and thought no further!


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 14, 2015)

sleaterkinney said:


> I got a round a while back in weatherspoons and just stood there in shock, I'd forgotten drinks could be cheap.



OOoo I'd almost forgotten my CAMRA Wetherspoons vouchers, ta for reminder. 
Good beers, but rubbish company and atmosphere


----------



## han (Jan 14, 2015)

The atmosphere is quite nice in the Crown and Sceptre actually!


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 14, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> OOoo I'd almost forgotten my CAMRA Wetherspoons vouchers, ta for reminder.
> Good beers, but rubbish company and atmosphere


And they are all identikit, but good beer.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 14, 2015)

han said:


> The atmosphere is quite nice in the Crown and Sceptre actually!



CURRY CLUB 

If you're in the Crown tonight, have a drink on me... etc.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 14, 2015)

teuchter said:


> editor clearly pays you well


I suspect Flower Love is a plant.






I'll get my coat.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 14, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> CURRY CLUB
> 
> If you're in the Crown tonight, have a drink on me... etc.



I'd always assumed it was the pub from 'Stay Free'. Is it?


----------



## han (Jan 14, 2015)

Yes!


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 14, 2015)

leanderman said:


> I'd always assumed it was the pub from 'Stay Free'. Is it?



Apparently so.

My first London local as well. Christmas dinner in 1995. Sachets of tomato ketchup.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 14, 2015)

Never been in. Now can't not.


----------



## han (Jan 14, 2015)

The fish n chips are actually really good. And 2 pints of Stowford Press for under a fiver!! What's not to like?! 

A proper local as well. Not a hipster to be seen


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 14, 2015)

han said:


> The fish n chips are actually really good. And* 2 pints of Stowford Press for under a fiver!!* What's not to like?!
> 
> A proper local as well. Not a hipster to be seen



Really?  Why aren't we in there all the time?


----------



## han (Jan 14, 2015)

Actually J and I have been in there quite a bit over the past couple of months. 

Maybe we should have an Urban drink there sometime!


----------



## CH1 (Jan 14, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Well there wasn't any Green King ales I recall, when I went along to xmas urbz meet. Only ipas on new fancy taps. I tried 2 or 3 and they were hidiously gassy and not to my taste. You were there - what did you find to drink?


I think I had Starpromen - the pretentious version of Stella.
I liked Punk IPA when I had it a while back - but like you I think it's a bit steep pricewise.

re Wetherspoons - had you tried the Fox on the Hill at the top of Denmark Hill. Might be convenient as you're Herne Hill.
It generally has about 6 ales on, though seems a bit suburban. The staff are incredibly polite compared to the Beehive (as are the customers).


----------



## buscador (Jan 15, 2015)

han said:


> The fish n chips are actually really good. And 2 pints of Stowford Press for under a fiver!! What's not to like?!
> 
> A proper local as well. Not a hipster to be seen



We used to go up there quite a lot. It's probably the most un-'Spoons 'Spoons I've been in. 



CH1 said:


> re Wetherspoons - had you tried the Fox on the Hill at the top of Denmark Hill. Might be convenient as you're Herne Hill.
> It generally has about 6 ales on, though seems a bit suburban. The staff are incredibly polite compared to the Beehive (as are the customers).



Fox always seems curiously inconvenient, as if we're going in the wrong direction somehow. If we're getting a bus in that direction I'd rather go to the Old Dispensary tbh.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Jan 15, 2015)

I'm sure everybody is keen to discover whether or not I obtained a moka pot... so yes, I did. Got it from that pot shop by the zebra crossing by the Village. Cheap an they had a range of sizes to choose from.
I got some coffee from federation too and now I feel bad about moaning about them on here before for being rude as they were very friendly and actually a bit helpful. Post-rant remorse innit :roll eyes:


----------



## teuchter (Jan 15, 2015)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> I'm sure everybody is keen to discover whether or not I obtained a moka pot... so yes, I did. Got it from that pot shop by the zebra crossing by the Village. Cheap an they had a range of sizes to choose from.


How much did it cost? And what size.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Jan 15, 2015)

It was £7.99 and is pretty big. Its either a 4 or 6 cup one. But they had massive ones for £10-12


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2015)

sleaterkinney said:


> The Albert used to have John Smiths as well, but Punk IPA is ok, the booze is normally terrible in the albert.


I discussed this with the landlord tonight. He's not happy with what has been foisted on him.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Punk IPA is nearly a fiver - that's not ok for me.


I agree. It's fucking shit and the owners are an absolute bunch of sexist, capitalist  twats posturing under the punk banner. I loathe the brewery and refuse to buy their drinks (even if they do taste nice).


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2015)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> I'm sure everybody is keen to discover whether or not I obtained a moka pot... so yes, I did. Got it from that pot shop by the zebra crossing by the Village. Cheap an they had a range of sizes to choose from.
> I got some coffee from federation too and now I feel bad about moaning about them on here before for being rude as they were very friendly and actually a bit helpful. Post-rant remorse innit :roll eyes:


I wanted to like their coffee but I haven't been impressed with the two bags I've bought to date.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2015)

Ruddy Nora, it's wet and windy out there. On my way home I dragged loads of bins and A boards out of the street and back on to the pavement.


----------



## Smick (Jan 15, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Playing tennis this morning, I noticed it had gone and thought no further!


Only a matter of time before Lambeth would want to take it down at exorbitant cost.

Little firestarter shits probably did is all a favour.


----------



## T & P (Jan 15, 2015)

editor said:


> Ruddy Nora, it's wet and windy out there. On my way home I dragged loads of bins and A boards out of the street and back on to the pavement.


I hope you ensured any tipped-over Foxtons signs were erected back to their intended position


----------



## steeeve (Jan 15, 2015)

It's a blow Negril's no longer BYOB. Their bottled beer is really expensive too. £3.95 for a stubby of red stripe!

Food is still excellent though, may start just getting it delivered to the Elm Park Tavern instead


----------



## leanderman (Jan 15, 2015)

Smick said:


> Only a matter of time before Lambeth would want to take it down at exorbitant cost.
> 
> Little firestarter shits probably did is all a favour.



It was restored recently. 

It's a shame - even though I can't recall using a park shelter.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 15, 2015)

han said:


> A proper local as well. Not a hipster to be seen





han said:


> Maybe we should have an Urban drink there sometime!



Now you've done it!


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 15, 2015)

Any Lambeth Labour members on here? You've probably already received your invite for the internal Lambeth Budget Conference taking place at the Town Hall on 31 January.

BBuzz piece.

Disclaimer: I didn't receive my 'invite' as a party member


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 15, 2015)

Hyperlink error up there Mr Skills.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> Hyperlink error up there Mr Skills.


Fixed!


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 15, 2015)

editor said:


> I agree. It's fucking shit and the owners are an absolute bunch of sexist, capitalist  twats posturing under the punk banner. I loathe the brewery and refuse to buy their drinks (even if they do taste nice).


I didn't know this. 

I had 6 pints if it in the Albert last night. I have a real shit head today. It is very nice though.


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I had 6 pints if it in the Albert last night. I have a real shit head today. It is very nice though.


I was there for a bit last night but didn't get out till late because of a deadline so dashed over to the Queens for a rather splendid night.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Jan 15, 2015)

editor said:


> I wanted to like their coffee but I haven't been impressed with the two bags I've bought to date.


I had some from them ages, probably years, ago and it was really nice but this one certainly smells different. I've not tried it yet but will report back. Did you try the house blend or the other one?


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 15, 2015)

FREE food from Brixton People's Kitchen at Myatt's Fields later this month. Music as well...

BBuzz piece.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 15, 2015)

editor said:


> so dashed over to the Queens for a rather splendid night.


 No boycott then?


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2015)

teuchter said:


> No boycott then?


Edit: actually, I can't be bovvered


----------



## leanderman (Jan 15, 2015)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> I had some from them ages, probably years, ago and it was really nice but this one certainly smells different. I've not tried it yet but will report back. Did you try the house blend or the other one?



Contraband blend is good.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 15, 2015)

han said:


> Actually J and I have been in there quite a bit over the past couple of months.
> 
> Maybe we should have an Urban drink there sometime!



well there's your Streatham drinks sorted!


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2015)

han said:


> The atmosphere is quite nice in the Crown and Sceptre actually!


Is the open fire still there?


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Jan 15, 2015)

Lidl is selling sporrans, kilts, ghillie shirts, fancy socks and bagpipes.

Don't delay: when it's gone, it's gone.


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Jan 15, 2015)

editor said:


> Is the open fire still there?


 Yes, and it has very good wi fi. (invaluable when you are trying to change from one broadband supplier to another, via BT cabling., so need to fill that 7 week service hiatus)


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Jan 15, 2015)

editor said:


> Is the open fire still there?


 Everything that was ever there is still there. Carpet, regulars...


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Jan 15, 2015)

Out of interest, will the budget meeting be open to public observers?


----------



## mxh (Jan 15, 2015)

editor said:


> Is the open fire still there?


It is but I think it's fake.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 15, 2015)

editor said:


> I agree. It's fucking shit and the owners are an absolute bunch of sexist, capitalist  twats posturing under the punk banner. I loathe the brewery and refuse to buy their drinks (even if they do taste nice).


I don't like the taste or gassiness either. 

So there's nothing I like to drink in the Albert then... sad...


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> I don't like the taste or gassiness either.
> 
> So there's nothing I like to drink in the Albert then... sad...


There's loads of bottled beers...


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 15, 2015)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Out of interest, will the budget meeting be open to public observers?



My understanding is that it will be for Labour party members only.

But *shhh*


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 15, 2015)

"In Lambeth we now have hundreds of residents who in their spare time are offering to manage parks, run libraries and take on beautiful buildings which we are simply struggling with. They have come up with fantastic locally tailored ideas to maximise income and are able to identify all those small pots of money, which can be bid for."

Welcome to the Co-op Council.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 15, 2015)

Good to know that running parks and libraries has been cooperatively evolved into a part time hobby for amateurs with small pots of money


----------



## teuchter (Jan 16, 2015)

Does anyone know anywhere in Brixton that would be able to sell me a 2A quick blow fuse?


----------



## CH1 (Jan 16, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Does anyone know anywhere in Brixton that would be able to sell me a 2A quick blow fuse?


Dunno if you've sorted this. It's a bit specialist. Maplin stock them in 10s @ £2.19 20mm size.
Other than that it is a case of finding an electrical repair shop.


----------



## Onket (Jan 16, 2015)

Looking for seafood restaurant recommendations in central Brixton, please.


----------



## Ms T (Jan 16, 2015)

Onket said:


> Looking for seafood restaurant recommendations in central Brixton, please.


Not Brixton, but went to Fish & Wine in Herne Hill last week and it was really good if a bit pricey (but fish usually is). The only seafood restaurant in Brixton. Is Etta's Seafood Kitchen in the Village, I think. Went once back when it had just opened so can't really comment on the quality.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 16, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Does anyone know anywhere in Brixton that would be able to sell me a 2A quick blow fuse?


I thought it was question taking the piss. Like a glass hammer/ long stand/polka dot paint type thing.


----------



## Onket (Jan 16, 2015)

Ms T said:


> Not Brixton, but went to Fish & Wine in Herne Hill last week and it was really good if a bit pricey (but fish usually is). The only seafood restaurant in Brixton. Is Etta's Seafood Kitchen in the Village, I think. Went once back when it had just opened so can't really comment on the quality.



I've been to Etta's and have posted about it before. It was shut the last time I went by and tbh I'm not particularly surprised.

Will look into Fish & Wine. Cheers.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 16, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I thought it was question taking the piss. Like a glass hammer/ long stand/polka dot paint type thing.


No indeed - that's the sort of thing you would have got at South London HiFi opposite the Barrier Block, or on Brixton Hill, or then again Electronic Enterprise on Brixton Hill.

All these small shops have gone out of business due to the changing electronics market.

Buy stuff from Currys/Argos/Internet - when it goes wrong 2 years later throw it away, and buy the current latest model.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 16, 2015)

CH1 said:


> No indeed - that's the sort of thing you would have got at South London HiFi opposite the Barrier Block, or on Brixton Hill, or then again Electronic Enterprise on Brixton Hill.
> 
> All these small shops have gone out of business due to the changing electronics market.
> 
> Buy stuff from Currys/Argos/Internet - when it goes wrong 2 years later throw it away, and buy the current latest model.


To be fair - with occasional exceptions - I don't find that things go wrong all that often. But you are right that when they do it is usually cheaper to replace.


----------



## Onket (Jan 16, 2015)

Onket said:


> I've been to Etta's and have posted about it before. It was shut the last time I went by and tbh I'm not particularly surprised.
> 
> Will look into Fish & Wine. Cheers.


100% record on here- http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/52/1897430/restaurant/London/Fish-Wine-Restaurant-Bar-Herne-Hill

http://www.fishandwinerestaurant.co.uk/ Not your normal lunchtime venue, though, looking at the prices!

Any other places do good fish dishes but perhaps aren't set up as a specific seafood place?


----------



## Dan U (Jan 16, 2015)

http://www.mcdonalds.co.uk/ukhome/product_nutrition.fish.30.filetofish.html


----------



## Onket (Jan 16, 2015)

Been there already.


----------



## han (Jan 16, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Now you've done it!


Lol. 

With all due respect to all members of our wonderful online community, most of us are too OLD to be considered hipsters. [emoji3]


----------



## CH1 (Jan 16, 2015)

Rushy said:


> To be fair - with occasional exceptions - I don't find that things go wrong all that often. But you are right that when they do it is usually cheaper to replace.


And of course it is de-skilling.

Sack the electronic technicians and replace with postmen/salesmen (and instead of local employers those which pay their tax in Luxembourg or worse).


----------



## Winot (Jan 16, 2015)

Onket said:


> 100% record on here- http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/52/1897430/restaurant/London/Fish-Wine-Restaurant-Bar-Herne-Hill
> 
> http://www.fishandwinerestaurant.co.uk/ Not your normal lunchtime venue, though, looking at the prices!
> 
> Any other places do good fish dishes but perhaps aren't set up as a specific seafood place?



http://www.boqueriatapas.com/food.pdf


----------



## Winot (Jan 16, 2015)

Winot said:


> http://www.boqueriatapas.com/food.pdf



Although it's only open for lunch at the weekend 

http://www.boqueriatapas.com/BoqueriaTapasHome.html


----------



## EastEnder (Jan 16, 2015)

han said:


> With all due respect to all members of our wonderful online community, most of us are too OLD to be considered hipsters. [emoji3]


This is very true, however, with my ineffable style & effortlessly trendy look I am concerned that the uninitiated might assume that I _was_ a hipster when I was younger. It's a source of constant concern, the last thing I need is to be hero worshipped by nu-Brixton types...


----------



## Onket (Jan 16, 2015)

Fairly unlikely though, isn't it EastEnder?!


----------



## Onket (Jan 16, 2015)

Winot said:


> Although it's only open for lunch at the weekend
> 
> http://www.boqueriatapas.com/BoqueriaTapasHome.html


----------



## trabuquera (Jan 16, 2015)

Not central Brixton and not exactly fine dining (by a long way), but O Cantinho do Portugal on Stockwell Rd is closer to central Brixton than Herne Hill is, and usually has loads of fish dishes on the menu and a wide selection of gnarly seafood species on offer as tapas/small plates. Cheap and good value but seriously seriously old school, including very plan (slightly over)boiled veg on the side, none of yer balsamic-glazed rocket salads or whatever.


----------



## EastEnder (Jan 16, 2015)

Onket said:


> Fairly unlikely though, isn't it EastEnder?!


As soon as GQ do a "Decrepit & Past It" edition I'll be on the front cover, mark my words...


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 16, 2015)

ricbake said:


> Good to know that running parks and libraries has been cooperatively evolved into a part time hobby for amateurs with small pots of money



Anyone have EIGHT weeks to spare to be kindly trained up to take over the running of Brockwell Park?

BBuzz piece.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> Anyone have EIGHT weeks to spare to be kindly trained up to take over the running of Brockwell Park?
> 
> BBuzz piece.


Yeah. I'll do it. Where does the stage and PA go?


----------



## Onket (Jan 16, 2015)

trabuquera said:


> Not central Brixton and not exactly fine dining (by a long way), but O Cantinho do Portugal on Stockwell Rd is closer to central Brixton than Herne Hill is, and usually has loads of fish dishes on the menu and a wide selection of gnarly seafood species on offer as tapas/small plates. Cheap and good value but seriously seriously old school, including very plan (slightly over)boiled veg on the side, none of yer balsamic-glazed rocket salads or whatever.


Www.cantinho-de-portugal.co.uk

Looks good, cheers.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 16, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> Anyone have EIGHT weeks to spare to be kindly trained up to take over the running of Brockwell Park?
> 
> BBuzz piece.


To be fair, it appears to be an 8 day course spread over 8 weeks. Still a commitment but far more manageable for anyone genuinely motivated to do this.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 16, 2015)

I don't want to run a park. I don't want to run a school. I already have a job, thereby paying taxes for parks and schools to be run properly.


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 16, 2015)

Parks, definitely no.

But I've just resigned after almost 10 years as a Community Governor for a school; which I _think_ overall worked out relatively well for both sides.

(some three year olds might disagree)


----------



## Rushy (Jan 16, 2015)

leanderman said:


> I don't want to run a park. I don't want to run a school. I already have a job, thereby paying taxes for parks and schools to be run properly.


Don't disagree. Trying to be broad minded but can't help but wonder about the motivations or mindset off anyone who decided to do this. Imagine it could attract / be interesting for retirees?


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 16, 2015)

And conversely less time and resources for the existing depleted park staff workforce; who now cover multiple parks with fewer staff.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 16, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> Anyone have EIGHT weeks to spare to be kindly trained up to take over the running of Brockwell Park?
> 
> BBuzz piece.



Bit of background info


----------



## Rushy (Jan 16, 2015)

ricbake said:


> Bit of background info





> It is of particular interest that the group has two professionals of british nationality and one person of uk nationality.


Enlightening...


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 16, 2015)

ricbake said:


> Bit of background info


eh? whats that all about?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 16, 2015)

editor said:


> There's loads of bottled beers...


Not keen on them generally and not sure my budget is big enough for a whole evening on bottled beers... still sad.


----------



## Onket (Jan 16, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> I don't like the taste or gassiness either.
> 
> So there's nothing I like to drink in the Albert then... sad...


I had to drink Guinness last time I was in there and I only ever do that when there's nothing else.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Not keen on them generally and not sure my budget is big enough for a whole evening on bottled beers... still sad.


Me neither to be honest (unless it's Coldharbour Courage of course!). The thing is that the new beers are apparently proving really popular there and there's less call for 'traditional' ales, which is a shame. 

Mind you, I generally drink cheapo Carling when I'm there; not for the taste but for purposes of pacing myself


----------



## ricbake (Jan 16, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> eh? whats that all about?



The Tree Shepherd people are the ones training volunteers to manage the parks and libraries - just sayin


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 16, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> Anyone have EIGHT weeks to spare to be kindly trained up to take over the running of Brockwell Park?
> 
> BBuzz piece.



Again, it's the something for nothing culture. How about some paid training, paid work? Volunteering is getting a seriously bad name.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 16, 2015)

The sauna in Brixton Rec is pretty damn good.
Had a great time in there yesterday evening, friendly bunch; mostly regulars.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 16, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Don't disagree. Trying to be broad minded but can't help but wonder about the motivations or mindset off anyone who decided to do this. Imagine it could attract / be interesting for retirees?



Or even 'friends' of political parties.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 16, 2015)

ricbake said:


> The Tree Shepherd people are the ones training volunteers to manage the parks and libraries - just sayin



And Tree Shepherd is being paid £160,000 by Lambeth Council to act as the 'facilitator.' The Council Standing Orders were deliberately broken to award this contract to Tree Shepherd.

Hope they know wha they are doing.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 16, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> Or even 'friends' of political parties.


Indeed.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 16, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Dunno if you've sorted this. It's a bit specialist. Maplin stock them in 10s @ £2.19 20mm size.
> Other than that it is a case of finding an electrical repair shop.


Decided a 90 minute round trip to Maplin was the best plan, rather than spending the same time on the phone trying to find an electrical shop who actually still do repairs or even know what a fuse is.


----------



## Winot (Jan 16, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> Parks, definitely no.
> 
> But I've just resigned after almost 10 years as a Community Governor for a school; which I _think_ overall worked out relatively well for both sides.
> 
> (some three year olds might disagree)



Good for you - Mrs W is a governor too.  But to be pedantic, the role of a governor is to oversee those running the school, not to actually run it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 16, 2015)

CH1 said:


> No indeed - that's the sort of thing you would have got at South London HiFi opposite the Barrier Block, or on Brixton Hill, or then again Electronic Enterprise on Brixton Hill.
> 
> All these small shops have gone out of business due to the changing electronics market.
> 
> Buy stuff from Currys/Argos/Internet - when it goes wrong 2 years later throw it away, and buy the current latest model.



Dunno if the old hi-fi/electronic goods shop (Park Electric) on New Park Rd is still there, either.


----------



## Flower Love (Jan 16, 2015)

Rushy said:


> I suspect Flower Love is a plant.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No but I sell plants. Genuinely disgruntled.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 16, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Enlightening...


I don't think it is "of particular interest" that 2 directors are British and 1 is UK
Supposing they said "it is of particular interest that 2 of the directors are of Finish nationality and one is Canadian" I might have felt they knew something about trees


----------



## CH1 (Jan 16, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Dunno if the old hi-fi/electronic goods shop (Park Electric) on New Park Rd is still there, either.


We must reconnoitre when they have this promised drink in the Crown & Sceptre.


----------



## Onket (Jan 16, 2015)

They?


----------



## CH1 (Jan 16, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Again, it's the something for nothing culture. How about some paid training, paid work? Volunteering is getting a seriously bad name.


I agree wholeheartedly with that.

I did some so-called volunteering in the autumn. I did get £4 "expenses" per 3 hour session, but it doesn't compare with £16/hour many people get sitting in offices twiddling their thumbs working for the council or voluntary sector round here.

There should be some proper mechanism for remuneration for this type of "non-work" - one that doesn't screw up people's benefits and is legit as regards tax and NI.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 16, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I don't think it is "of particular interest" that 2 directors are British and 1 is UK
> Supposing they said "it is of particular interest that 2 of the directors are of Finish nationality and one is Canadian" I might have felt they knew something about trees


I think your sarcasm detector may require calibration. Although at today's prices you may as well just go out and buy a new one...


----------



## CH1 (Jan 16, 2015)

Rushy said:


> I think your sarcasm detector may require calibration. Although at today's prices you may as well just go out and buy a new one...


What - a director .. or a tree?


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

Some Brixton photos from this week: 












Pickles, Magic Mushroom and car parks: Brixton signs and street scenes, January, 2015
















Sing For Your Supper open mic session at the Queen’s Head, Stockwell – photos


----------



## leanderman (Jan 16, 2015)

Winot said:


> The role of a governor is to oversee those running the school, not to actually run it.



Yes. I was thinking more of these ridiculous, hands-on 'free' schools.


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 16, 2015)

Winot said:


> Good for you - Mrs W is a governor too.  But to be pedantic, the role of a governor is to oversee those running the school, not to actually run it.



I think I discovered that after 5 years. But schools are being pushed more in to 'business' activities and required to raise voluntary funds - not skills teachers are recruited for.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 16, 2015)

editor said:


> Edit: actually, I can't be bovvered


I think we can conclude there is no boycott of the Queen's Head, given theactive promotion of it above. 

I thought it was a big deal for a lot of folk on here which is why I am surprised. Or is the pub under new management now?


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 16, 2015)

Onket said:


> Www.cantinho-de-portugal.co.uk
> 
> Looks good, cheers.


It has changed hands recently and the food is gone well down hill IMO. The new owner has tried to jazz it up a bit too and it doesn't work. Including bizarrely blue tinted lighting in the dining room.

There was a time we eat there once a week. The changes have left us nothing short of devastated


----------



## Onket (Jan 16, 2015)




----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 16, 2015)

Just back from the gym in the Rec. The facelift is finished on the 5th floor and the gym is looking very good


----------



## Winot (Jan 16, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Just back from the gym in the Rec. The facelift is finished on the 5th floor and the gym is looking very good



Yep, there now. Spin class shifted to Studio 1 on Level 6. Bit of a cramped room though.


----------



## Winot (Jan 16, 2015)

Onket said:


>



Try Casa Sibilla in the Village.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I think we can conclude there is no boycott of the Queen's Head, given theactive promotion of it above.


'We' don't care much about your thoughts on the topic.

PS Did you like my "active promotion" of the Pickles phone box?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 16, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> And Tree Shepherd is being paid £160,000 by Lambeth Council to act as the 'facilitator.' The Council Standing Orders were deliberately broken to award this contract to Tree Shepherd.
> 
> Hope they know wha they are doing.



Makes me wonder why they couldn't spend that on people to manage the parks and libraries...


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 16, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> Or even 'friends' of political parties.


Rich friends with private incomes perhaps.


----------



## Manter (Jan 16, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I don't think it is "of particular interest" that 2 directors are British and 1 is UK
> Supposing they said "it is of particular interest that 2 of the directors are of Finish nationality and one is Canadian" I might have felt they knew something about trees


I think they are being sarcastic about the different nationalities when it is pretty blatantly the same person. Which Rushy in his turn was being sarcastic about

Edit- which has also been pointed out. Fucksake, must read thread before posting


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

What's going on in the old John's Cafe/Skate Shop? A new vibrant hub?


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

Oh, and Kaff has a new Youngs cask ale on.


----------



## Onket (Jan 16, 2015)

Thanks for your fish recommendations, folks, but I've just had a few reminders why I've tried to avoid this thread this month so I'm off again.


----------



## Manter (Jan 16, 2015)

My inability to read before I post seems to have scared Onket off....


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

Looks like a hotshot prisoner went through Coldharbour Lane a few days ago:


----------



## SpamMisery (Jan 16, 2015)

Why were people boycotting the Queen's Head?


----------



## han (Jan 16, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> Why were people boycotting the Queen's Head?


[emoji23]


----------



## SpamMisery (Jan 16, 2015)

Hook, line and stinker


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

Oh, and here's a lovely flower stall in Pope's Road run by an Urbanite: 












http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2015/01/...london-florists-on-popes-road-brixton-market/


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> Hook, line and stinker


----------



## Smick (Jan 16, 2015)

editor said:


> Looks like a hotshot prisoner went through Coldharbour Lane a few days ago:
> 
> View attachment 66445


Those day glo sleeves are interesting.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

Smick said:


> Those day glo sleeves are interesting.


Be a  good look at the 414.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

Ooh, I've just come across this. It's one of the first pics I ever took in Brixton on a digital camera - it's of the Albert on NYE in 1998.

I'm sure old school Brixtonites will recognise the barman! Note the Poacher ale amongst the long strip of ales. 



The camera was a Fuji MX-700 which packed a mighty 1.5MP and had a battery life of about, well, 20 images or so.


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 16, 2015)

[QUOTE="Onket, post: 13663239], but I've just had a few reminders why I've tried to avoid this thread this month so I'm off again.[/QUOTE]

Stay! The amateur hour hypocrisy is what keeps on bringing me back. That and I the fact that i appear to speak to buscador & friendofdorothy more on here than I ever get to in the pub.


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)




----------



## snowy_again (Jan 16, 2015)

Potkettle.gif


----------



## editor (Jan 16, 2015)

Back to things to do with Brixton, it's crazily busy on Coldharbour Lane right now.

The Albert has been heaving since around 7pm, and I just passed a veritable battalion of young professionals heading past the Barrier Block. 

Is there something special going on around there?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 17, 2015)

editor said:


> Back to things to do with Brixton, it's crazily busy on Coldharbour Lane right now.
> 
> The Albert has been heaving since around 7pm, and I just passed a veritable battalion of young professionals heading past the Barrier Block.
> 
> Is there something special going on around there?


No idea, but I'm on a bus home from town that just disgorged a couple of dozen extra pissed wankers into the throng. Enjoy!


----------



## leanderman (Jan 17, 2015)

Crispy said:


> I'm on a bus home from town that just disgorged a couple of dozen extra pissed wankers!



How dare they!


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2015)

Crispy said:


> No idea, but I'm on a bus home from town that just disgorged a couple of dozen extra pissed wankers into the throng. Enjoy!


There's now the predictable Coldharbour Lane Kick Off from the aforementioned extra pissed wankers.


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2015)

Graffiti seen tonight:


----------



## teuchter (Jan 17, 2015)

editor said:


> Sorry, where was this "active promotion" you speak of? Do explain yourself. And who is this "we" that is making these conclusions?


Favourable article on Brixton's biggest website. And "we" is the readers of this thread. 

As if either of the above questions actually needed an answer.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 17, 2015)

Community Day of Action in Vassall ward on 22 Jan. Met Police would like to know what the priorities should be.

BBuzz piece.


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2015)

teuchter said:


> As if either of the above questions actually needed an answer.


As if your ever-sneery, always-negative, constantly shit-stirring responses to just about everything I write here is ever needed! Get a new hobby. Please!


----------



## Rushy (Jan 17, 2015)

Manter said:


> I think they are being sarcastic about the different nationalities when it is pretty blatantly the same person. Which Rushy in his turn was being sarcastic about
> 
> Edit- which has also been pointed out. Fucksake, must read thread before posting


I may be wrong but I think the article was meant in all seriousness but is probably computer generated. "Of particular interest is [insert random and probably inaccurate trawled fact here]."


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2015)

There appeared to be a lot of Lambeth licensing bods busying themselves along Coldharbour Lane last night.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 17, 2015)

editor said:


> Graffiti seen tonight:
> 
> View attachment 66458



they;re about three years too late on that one.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 17, 2015)

editor said:


> As if your ever-sneery, always-negative, constantly shit-stirring responses to just about everything I write here is ever needed! Get a new hobby. Please!


Usual old dodge-the-inconvenient-question routine, then.


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Usual old dodge-the-inconvenient-question routine, then.


Silly man.


----------



## Winot (Jan 17, 2015)

Can we have a sub-forum?


----------



## gabi (Jan 17, 2015)

Not sure we need one. This thread pretty much covers it. Massive hypocrisy from senior members who profit from young professionals or even are young professionals, whinging about young professionals. That's pretty much it.


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2015)

Truly massive.


----------



## editor (Jan 17, 2015)

So who's out in Brixton tonight and where are you going? I'm thinking I'll warm up at the Albert, and maybe see some friends at the Effra Social, and possibly pop over to Jamm for a friend's birthday (if I get the energy to traipse to Brixton Rd). Probably end up at the 414 if my Hamlet post-the match celebrations haven't worn me out.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 17, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> Stay! The amateur hour hypocrisy is what keeps on bringing me back. That and I the fact that i appear to speak to buscador & friendofdorothy more on here than I ever get to in the pub.


Hi snowy! Sorry we been missing you, but we can't afford to go out as we used to.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 17, 2015)

editor said:


> So who's out in Brixton tonight and where are you going? I'm thinking I'll warm up at the Albert, and maybe see some friends at the Effra Social, and possibly pop over to Jamm for a friend's birthday (if I get the energy to traipse to Brixton Rd). Probably end up at the 414 if my Hamlet post-the match celebrations haven't worn me out.



where the fuck do you get the energy from?   you're 10 years older than me ffs


----------



## cuppa tee (Jan 18, 2015)

editor said:


> So who's out in Brixton tonight and where are you going


I stepped out after a week laid up with a nasty virus, the first people I clapped eyes on were three bearded gentlemen in superhero outfits carrying plastic inflatables, instead of heading back to bed I went to the crown and anchor, a low key but enjoyable drink was spoilt when a bloke in a rugby shirt asked if we could swap tables despite there being another table big enough for his group available .....i got the hump because imho he didn't see that one just the one occupied by two plebs [me +1 ] which he just had to have, maybe I'm para after my sicknesses.........on my return I was struck by the numbe of half drunk bottles of corona beer littering the street.


----------



## SpamMisery (Jan 18, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> ...i got the hump because imho he didn't see that one


Can't really get the hump if he didn't see the other table, can you?


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 18, 2015)

Some snaps from a walk up / down Brixton Road.

BBuzz piece in full.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Jan 18, 2015)

Reported in the Sunday times business section that Honest Burgers have sold a 50% stake in the company for a £7million investment which they are using to double the number of restaurants


----------



## cuppa tee (Jan 18, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> Can't really get the hump if he didn't see the other table, can you?



I think you can if the table in question is big enough to seat 8 and is in plain sight........


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Jan 18, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> I think you can if the table in question is big enough to seat 8 and is in plain sight........


I think you can get the hump just because you've got it full stop

If people in London stop getting the hump where will we be?


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 18, 2015)

Miss-Shelf said:


> I think you can get the hump just because you've got it full stop
> 
> *If people in London stop getting the hump where will we be?*



We would be living in a city where all the men were called Humphry?


----------



## editor (Jan 18, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> where the fuck do you get the energy from?   you're 10 years older than me ffs


I've no idea to be honest but I'm grateful I have it! I ended up in the 414 which was hugely busy. It seemed busy all around Brixton: Dogstar was rammed, Albert was heaving as was the Queen's Head.


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## Mr Retro (Jan 18, 2015)

editor said:


> I've no idea to be honest but I'm grateful I have it! I ended up in the 414 which was hugely busy. It seemed busy all around Brixton: Dogstar was rammed, Albert was heaving as was the Queen's Head.


I was working day and evening all weekend and to help with the pain I went to the offie about 7pm yesterday. The place was fucking packed. Queues for the bank machines were 20 people long. Outside the tube was like there was a major sporting occasion about to start.

What happened to being skint in January?


----------



## editor (Jan 18, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I was working day and evening all weekend and to help with the pain I went to the offie about 7pm yesterday. The place was fucking packed. Queues for the bank machines were 20 people long. Outside the tube was like there was a major sporting occasion about to start.
> 
> What happened to being skint in January?


Loads of lolly slopping around vibrant Brixton these days. And loads of fights too.


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## han (Jan 18, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> where the fuck do you get the energy from?   you're 10 years older than me ffs


10?! 
[emoji3]


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## Gramsci (Jan 18, 2015)

Black Cultural Archives have new exhibition in conjunction with V&A. Both free.



> Inspired by Peter Fyrer’s seminal text _Staying Power, The History of Black People in Britain_, this exhibition focuses on a period of time when photography served as an archival tool to capture historical moments. From documentary to portraiture to staged allegorical photographs, _Staying Power_ documents experiences from post-World War II through to the 1990s, covering topics from mass migration to hip hop fashions of south London.



I have not read Peter Fryers book. They had copies of it in the BCA bookshop. Its was written a while ago but is considered to be classic history of Black presence in Britain.

I went to see the one at BCA on Saturday.

Its a collection of photographs taken from post war onwards by Black photographers (mainly post 70s at BCA). Its a mixture of styles. Fashion, street photography, press photography, photos as diary and art based photography. Surprisingly given the diversity of styles this works really well as an exhibition. Its the best curated of the exhibitions I have seen at the BCA.

Not to be missed are the cases showing the photographers old cameras with comments from the owners. Below which are shelves you can pull out containing old press and articles from BCA archives. Items that complement the photos. Also show how a lot of left wing press there was about in 70s and 80s. Several of the photographers contributed to these magazines.

The photos are mainly London based. Some from Brixton.  Its an uplifting show but the London it represents is going. Which is sad imo. What comes across strongly in the exhibition is the humanity of the photographs and the photographers. The exhibition shows the power of photography.

Whilst the exhibition is not overtly political its a fascinating historical record. Part of the "Staying Power Project" was to collect oral history along with the photos. If you have mobile phone you can scan to listen to the oral history at the exhibition.

Just to add BCA now have cafe open on Saturdays.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 19, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> Black Cultural Archives have new exhibition in conjunction with V&A. Both free.
> I have not read Peter Fryers book. They had copies of it in the BCA bookshop. Its was written a while ago but is considered to be classic history of Black presence in Britain.
> I went to see the one at BCA on Saturday.
> Its a collection of photographs taken from post war onwards by Black photographers (mainly post 70s at BCA). Its a mixture of styles. Fashion, street photography, press photography, photos as diary and art based photography. Surprisingly given the diversity of styles this works really well as an exhibition. Its the best curated of the exhibitions I have seen at the BCA.
> ...


I went to a similarly themed free exhibition at the V & A last week - prompted by a lunchtime lecture.
"In Black and White" in rooms 88a & 90 has some Chris Offili plus a range of pop-level art from 1970s Black Panther posters to African and African-influenced materials from the post-colonial period.
http://www.vam.ac.uk/whatson/event/3339/in-black-and-white-prints-from-africa-and-the-diaspora-4770/

No doubt a visit to the V & A could combine both.


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## Gramsci (Jan 19, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I went to a similarly themed free exhibition at the V & A last week - prompted by a lunchtime lecture.
> "In Black and White" in rooms 88a & 90 has some Chris Offili plus a range of pop-level art from 1970s Black Panther posters to African and African-influenced materials from the post-colonial period.
> http://www.vam.ac.uk/whatson/event/3339/in-black-and-white-prints-from-africa-and-the-diaspora-4770/
> 
> No doubt a visit to the V & A could combine both.



Thanks for this. Looks interesting.


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## cuppa tee (Jan 19, 2015)

should strike a chord with some here........ http://www.thebaffler.com/blog/londons-poor-fetish/


----------



## Manter (Jan 19, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> should strike a chord with some here........ http://www.thebaffler.com/blog/londons-poor-fetish/


The name of the site is apposite.


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> should strike a chord with some here........ http://www.thebaffler.com/blog/londons-poor-fetish/





> The illusion is delicate and fleeting, though, because as soon as a place becomes inhabited with too many white, middle-class faces, it becomes difficult for any of them to keep playing penniless. The braying accents crowd in and the illusion shatters. Those who aren’t committed to the working class aesthetic—yuppies dressed in loafers and button-downs rather than scruffy shoes and vintage wool coats—begin to dominate, and it all becomes just a bit too west London. And so the Zeitgeist must roll on to the next market, pool hall, or dive bar ripe for discovery, colonization, and commodification.
> 
> Not all businesses understand this dynamic, however. Champagne and Fromage, an explicitly bourgeois restaurant, waded into the hipster darling food market of Brixton Village in late 2013, upsetting locals and regulars alike. Attracted by the hip kudos and ready spending of the area, the restaurant’s premature arrival inadvertently pointed out that the emperor had no clothes, that the other restaurants were simply a collage of meaningless symbols and aesthetics, shorn from their original contexts to create a faux-working-class experience—an experience that was nothing more than an illusion.


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## editor (Jan 19, 2015)

Misty Miller launches Independent Venue Week at Brixton’s Windmill, Monday 26th Jan

I really like Misty, so might try and come along to this.


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## teuchter (Jan 19, 2015)

> This is the romantic illusion that these bars, clubs and street food markets construct; that their customers are the ones on the edge of life, running the gauntlet of Zola’s _Les Halles, _eating local on makeshift benches whilst drinking beer from the can. Yet this zest is vicarious—only experienced second-hand through objects and spaces that have been sanitized enough for the middle classes to inhabit. Spaces that have been duly cleansed of anybody who is actually working class; the former clientele both excluded by the increased prices and relegated to the roles of service staff.
> 
> The illusion is delicate and fleeting, though, because as soon as a place becomes inhabited with too many white, middle-class faces, it becomes difficult for any of them to keep playing penniless. The braying accents crowd in and the illusion shatters. Those who aren’t committed to the working class aesthetic—yuppies dressed in loafers and button-downs rather than scruffy shoes and vintage wool coats—begin to dominate, and it all becomes just a bit _too_ west London. And so the Zeitgeist must roll on to the next market, pool hall, or dive bar ripe for discovery, colonization, and commodification.



First paragraph: reality of what we call old skool Brixton.
Second paragraph: what we call nu Brixton.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 19, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


>


what in the name of tarnation would possess someone to pretend to be an american fed in brixton?


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## Tricky Skills (Jan 19, 2015)

_£33,000 for a new Director of Housing at Lambeth Council?_

That's just the *recruitment* cost. The full whack is £147,000, plus 'oncosts' of 28%. The Prime Minister is paid £142,500.

Lambeth Council is broke btw.

BBuzz piece.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 19, 2015)

Miss-Shelf said:


> If people in London stop getting the hump where will we be?


a city without people  that's where this non-humping will get you.


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## Manter (Jan 19, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> _£33,000 for a new Director of Housing at Lambeth Council?_
> 
> That's just the *recruitment* cost. The full whack is £147,000, plus 'oncosts' of 28%. The Prime Minister is paid £142,500.
> 
> ...


Oncosts are tax etc- they are unavoidable.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 19, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> _£33,000 for a new Director of Housing at Lambeth Council?_
> 
> That's just the *recruitment* cost. The full whack is £147,000, plus 'oncosts' of 28%. The Prime Minister is paid £142,500.
> 
> ...


so's the country but you don't see people shaking their fists at comeron because of the amount he's paid.


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## Tricky Skills (Jan 19, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> so's the country but you don't see people shaking their fists at comeron because of the amount he's paid.



I'm not going to defend Cameron. ABSOLUTELY NOT. No way.

But on balance, *any* PM is probably worth £142,500.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 19, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> I'm not going to defend Cameron. ABSOLUTELY NOT. No way.
> 
> But on balance, *any* PM is probably worth £142,500.


any p's m, anyway


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## snowy_again (Jan 19, 2015)

PM's salary is always a salary terrible benchmark - you don't do the PM jobfor the cash, but for the director positions after you leave that role. 
Most cabinet members earn more than the PM. Patten was on about 2.5 times PM when he was sent to Hong Kong.


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## Pickman's model (Jan 19, 2015)

p's m on about 0.15pm


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## editor (Jan 19, 2015)

Lots of familiar Brixton faces in this feature: 







Nighthawks at the takeaway: Brixton


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## editor (Jan 19, 2015)

Just spotted several plain clothes types with walkie talkie shuffling along Coldharbour Lane with intent. Hmm.


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## Tricky Skills (Jan 19, 2015)

The Rushcroft Road refurbishment has found 'unforeseen structural defects.' An extra £1,345,511 is now needed for Homer, Granville and Oval Houses.

BBuzz piece.


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## teuchter (Jan 19, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> The Rushcroft Road refurbishment has found 'unforeseen structural defects.' An extra £1,345,511 is now needed for Homer, Granville and Oval Houses.
> 
> BBuzz piece.


I'm confused.

When the council say:


> The tender pricing was unrealistic in the first place. Th total budget for this project of £4,693,018m, was more accurate. The increase is merely aligning the project’s budget to its spend reality. The increase is still below the total budget.



What do they mean by "the total budget" and when they say "was more accurate"? Does that mean they've had a budget since the beginning which has anticipated the likelihood of the necessity of extra structural work becoming apparent during the construction phase?


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## leanderman (Jan 19, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I'm confused.
> 
> When the council say:
> 
> ...



Yes


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 19, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> should strike a chord with some here........ http://www.thebaffler.com/blog/londons-poor-fetish/


That explains the drinking out of jam jars then. 
Strangely, british working class food like tripe or jellied eels hasn't made it into fashion, yet.


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## Dan U (Jan 19, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> That explains the drinking out of jam jars then.
> Strangely, british working class food like tripe or jellied eels hasn't made it into fashion, yet.


The Sommelier of a Michelin star restaurant in South London tweeted a picture of her cocktail in a jamjar in Kaff recently. Approvingly I think.


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## teuchter (Jan 19, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Yes


If so then Tricky Skills's article is somewhat misleading, as by my reading it suggests the extra cost has come as a surprise and hasn't been budgeted for.


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## Casaubon (Jan 19, 2015)

I've commented on the BBuzz piece thus:

“Surveys to the Rushcroft Road Mansions were limited as the properties were under illegal occupation and had been so for over 30 years.”

This is more blatant lies from Lambeth council. Most occupants of Rushcroft Rd were legal tenants, as recognised by the House of Lords (Bruton vs. London and Quadrant, June 1999). During our period of legal tenancy countless surveys were undertaken by London and Quadrant, the council and various consultants and individuals. I had 5 surveys conducted on my flat in the space of 6 years.
As ususal, the council were just too stupid, grasping and short-sighted to pay attention to what was right in front of their eyes.


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## leanderman (Jan 19, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> should strike a chord with some here........ http://www.thebaffler.com/blog/londons-poor-fetish/



The full piece on the writer's website is excellent


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## leanderman (Jan 19, 2015)

teuchter said:


> If so then Tricky Skills's article is somewhat misleading, as by my reading it suggests the extra cost has come as a surprise and hasn't been budgeted for.



More a disappointment, and (over)budgeted for.


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## teuchter (Jan 19, 2015)

Casaubon said:


> I've commented on the BBuzz piece thus:
> 
> “Surveys to the Rushcroft Road Mansions were limited as the properties were under illegal occupation and had been so for over 30 years.”
> 
> ...


I'll not argue with you about the legal status of the properties' occupation but I would assume the point of their statement is that they weren't able to carry out the kind of survey that would reveal the full structural state of the building, while it was occupied (legally or otherwise). Of course, they shouldn't have let such a situation develop in the first place, that they weren't able to keep a proper tab on the condition of their own housing stock.

I expect that a large proportion of what they've had to put right would have been preventable with proper maintenance.


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## leanderman (Jan 19, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I expect that a large proportion of what they've had to put right would have been preventable with proper maintenance.



Yep - roof seems to be a big issue.


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## Casaubon (Jan 19, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I'll not argue with you about the legal status of the properties' occupation but I would assume the point of their statement is that they weren't able to carry out the kind of survey that would reveal the full structural state of the building, while it was occupied (legally or otherwise). Of course, they shouldn't have let such a situation develop in the first place, that they weren't able to keep a proper tab on the condition of their own housing stock.
> 
> I expect that a large proportion of what they've had to put right would have been preventable with proper maintenance.



They had countless detailed surveys to refer to, many of which had been carried out by themselves, or on their behalf. 
The repossession and sale of the blocks was hurried through for political reasons and sheer bloody-mindedness, and they just didn't want the facts to get in the way of their short-term aims. 
I don't think that 'a large proportion of what they've had to put right would have been preventable with proper maintenance'. The blocks were jerry-built in the first place, by dodgy developers out to make a fast buck out of an up-and-coming area (sounds familiar?) The materials were very poor quality and none of the blocks had a damp course. They're now around 120 years old, and rotten to the core. When I moved out 10 years ago most of the structural woodwork (e.g. lintels and joists) was frighteningly rotten. I remember a ground floor window lintel, a huge piece of timber about 200cm x 30cm x 40 cm, that was so rotten I could push my fist easily through its whole width.  
Much as I love the blocks, it's hard to come to any other conclusion than that they're well past their life expectancy, which was probably about 60 years.


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## leanderman (Jan 19, 2015)

Casaubon said:


> Much as I love the blocks, it's hard to come to any other conclusion than that they're well past their life expectancy, which was probably about 60 years.



Sounds like a £3-4million restoration is reasonable value


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## editor (Jan 19, 2015)

Chucka has a huffa.


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## teuchter (Jan 19, 2015)

Casaubon said:


> They had countless detailed surveys to refer to, many of which had been carried out by themselves, or on their behalf.
> The repossession and sale of the blocks was hurried through for political reasons and sheer bloody-mindedness, and they just didn't want the facts to get in the way of their short-term aims.
> I don't think that 'a large proportion of what they've had to put right would have been preventable with proper maintenance'. The blocks were jerry-built in the first place, by dodgy developers out to make a fast buck out of an up-and-coming area (sounds familiar?) The materials were very poor quality and none of the blocks had a damp course. They're now around 120 years old, and rotten to the core. When I moved out 10 years ago most of the structural woodwork (e.g. lintels and joists) was frighteningly rotten. I remember a ground floor window lintel, a huge piece of timber about 200cm x 30cm x 40 cm, that was so rotten I could push my fist easily through its whole width.
> Much as I love the blocks, it's hard to come to any other conclusion than that they're well past their life expectancy, which was probably about 60 years.


If the main problem is rotten timber, then it's a maintenance issue. It's rotten because water got in. Water got in because the building wasn't maintained properly. The absence of a damp proof course is irrelevant to the condition of roof structures and window lintels and any joists above ground floor.

There are plenty of buildings that are way more than 120 years old where the timber hasn't gone rotten. Because they've been looked after properly.

There may be fundamental structural issues that are a consequence of the building being shoddily built in the first place, and some of the work may relate to that, but I'd bet that it doesn't all, and that much or even most of the work is fixing stuff that could have been prevented.


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## editor (Jan 19, 2015)

Simply failing to repaint the window frames and leaving the bare wood open to the elements can cause them to go rotten. 

That's what happened in my block, and it cost a fortune to replace one window with some plastic thing that I very much doubt will last as long as the one it replaced (had it been maintained properly).


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## teuchter (Jan 19, 2015)

And the same will almost certainly apply to the Carlton Mansions building. Leaving it unoccupied will allow problems to progress more quickly than they would, were it still occupied. But leaving a building to be squatted (or short life tenanted or whatever) rather than actively maintaining it inevitably lets it deteriorate.


----------



## boohoo (Jan 19, 2015)

teuchter said:


> And the same will almost certainly apply to the Carlton Mansions building. Leaving it unoccupied will allow problems to progress more quickly than they would, were it still occupied. But leaving a building to be squatted (or short life tenanted or whatever) rather than actively maintaining it inevitably lets it deteriorate.



It doesn't deteriorate as quickly if it is lived in as you said. When squatted or short life or whatever, the tenants won't want to spend thousands on large repairs knowing full well they could be removed from the building at any time so although maintenance is done, it is never on the scale of an active owner doing substantial repairs. Having said that, short life occupants have spent thousands over the years maintaining their buildings.

Carlton Mansions will rot and be a pigeon's home very quickly.


----------



## Casaubon (Jan 19, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Sounds like a £3-4million restoration is reasonable value



Well, let’s see what the final, total bill is. I'm sure we can rely on the council to provide full and accurate disclosure (pffffttt). 

I think they’re throwing good money after bad, propping up rotting buildings which are woefully inefficient in their energy use and whose layouts are very wasteful of space and unsuitable for modern living.

I’d rather our money was spent on better quality housing, instead of shoring up the political reputations of those shifty wankers in the town hall.

Apart from anything else, economically-speaking new build has the distinct advantage over refurbishment of being VAT-free, while refurb attracts full VAT.


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## teuchter (Jan 19, 2015)

Casaubon said:


> I think they’re throwing good money after bad, propping up rotting buildings which are woefully inefficient in their energy use and whose layouts are very wasteful of space and unsuitable for modern living



I'd agree with you completely, if I didn't also think that there is important value in certain aspects of old buildings. As records of history and part of what makes a place a place. And while there's always a compromise somewhere, and it's by no means easy, it's possible to make old buildings work better and more efficiently without completely destroying them. 

Unless you are saying that Lambeth should have sold these all off to the private market, and used the proceeds to do newbuild social housing elsewhere. But then people would be complaining that all the "best" housing (aka the inefficient rotting stuff) was going into private hands.


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## Rushy (Jan 19, 2015)

It would be interesting to see what Lexadon is spending per unit and compare the finished products.


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## CH1 (Jan 19, 2015)

editor said:


> Chucka has a huffa.



I thought Chuka was right actually - but on balance it was a bit of a damp squib wasn't it?

Nothing quite matches John Nott vs Robin Day. What's is name from Sky has hardly got the panache of Sir Robin - or the twinkle in the eye.


----------



## Manter (Jan 19, 2015)

Does anyone know a charity who could use an oven, hob or dishwasher?


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## teuchter (Jan 19, 2015)

Manter said:


> Does anyone know a charity who could use an oven, hob or dishwasher?


Is it a nice hob?


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## teuchter (Jan 19, 2015)

Rushy said:


> It would be interesting to see what Lexadon is spending per unit and compare the finished products.


It would.


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## CH1 (Jan 19, 2015)

Rushy said:


> It would be interesting to see what Lexadon is spending per unit and compare the finished products.


Lexadon no doubt have inhouse builders and contract managers.

Lambeth used to have their DLO until they were forced to stop building council houses in 1986.

Mr Jerry Knight (Lexadon) is able to be efficient by running his business like a family firm.

Mr Ted Knight (Lambeth Council) was able to do these things efficiently by dictat.

Co-op Lambeth consultant capitalism seems to get blown off course very easily. Now Lambeth will be putting everything via consultants, architects and builders who each take a cut - and stand to benefit from every cost over-run.


----------



## Manter (Jan 19, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Is it a nice hob?


Gas, zanussi, black.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 19, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I'll not argue with you about the legal status of the properties' occupation but I would assume the point of their statement is that they weren't able to carry out the kind of survey that would reveal the full structural state of the building, while it was occupied (legally or otherwise). Of course, they shouldn't have let such a situation develop in the first place, that they weren't able to keep a proper tab on the condition of their own housing stock.
> 
> I expect that a large proportion of what they've had to put right would have been preventable with proper maintenance.



As Casaubon says Short Lifers gave access to Council owned properties for surveys. 

The Council recently asked me if I had a copy of a survey of Carlton Mansions. They had lost their copy. 

Reminds me I need to ask for some plans back that I gave officers so I can take them to Lambeth Archives. 

Reading the report I do not understand why contracts were put out when proper survey had not been done. The report makes great play how the Council had finally got vacant possession. So why did they not get in specialist structural survey done? Before contracting it out.

The report reads to me like the officers did cursory survey. Its an officer balls up. Which is why they blame the "squatters"


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 19, 2015)

teuchter said:


> And the same will almost certainly apply to the Carlton Mansions building. Leaving it unoccupied will allow problems to progress more quickly than they would, were it still occupied. But leaving a building to be squatted (or short life tenanted or whatever) rather than actively maintaining it inevitably lets it deteriorate.



Short Life is not squatting. 

Without the "Short Life" use of Carlton Mansions it would have rotted years ago.

I ( with other Coop members) replaced floors, joists and generally kept the dry rot at bay. Also patched up the roof etc. 

boohoo is right to say it will deteriorate now its empty. Was in Mansions a few weeks ago. Its already a sorry sight. Council have put metal grills up and to do that had to leave windows open. Brilliant. They are not checking to see the roof is not leaking. As I warned them to do.


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## teuchter (Jan 19, 2015)

There are some things that you can't know until you start to do some fairly serious stripping out of the building - ie. not before the builders are in and have a proper building site set up, scaffolding and all the rest that allows you to do that work. This is not an unusual way of proceeding. They've accepted a tender from the contractor on the basis of the work that could be anticipated at that stage, and set some money aside to be used for the very likely additional work that will become necessary during the job. They are now approving the extra payment to the contractor for the work that was extra to what was tendered for.

I've no doubt that they are capable of mismanaging all sorts of stuff nonetheless, but in principle there doesn't seem to be anything particularly unusual. This is the way plenty of private jobs are done too.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 19, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> Short Life is not squatting.
> 
> Without the "Short Life" use of Carlton Mansions it would have rotted years ago.
> 
> ...



I know short life is not squatting. And I amn't blaming any tenants for the deterioration of the building. I agree absolutely that had the building been left empty instead of being let to the Coop, it would have rotted years ago. However, had it been managed properly, instead of leaving tenants to do whatever patch-up jobs that were within their means, it would be in a better state than it is now. To repeat, it's not a criticism of the coop or any other tenants. It's a criticism of Lambeth neglecting buildings which are public assets and which would be less expensive to fix up now, had they looked after them properly over the last few decades.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 19, 2015)

teuchter said:


> There are some things that you can't know until you start to do some fairly serious stripping out of the building - ie. not before the builders are in and have a proper building site set up, scaffolding and all the rest that allows you to do that work. This is not an unusual way of proceeding. They've accepted a tender from the contractor on the basis of the work that could be anticipated at that stage, and set some money aside to be used for the very likely additional work that will become necessary during the job. They are now approving the extra payment to the contractor for the work that was extra to what was tendered for.
> 
> I've no doubt that they are capable of mismanaging all sorts of stuff nonetheless, but in principle there doesn't seem to be anything particularly unusual. This is the way plenty of private jobs are done too.



If they had written their report in reasonable language like you use here that would have been fine. Straightforward explanation of what has been done and why extra funds are needed. 

But they didn’t. The report is written in a way that is a wind up to ex Short Lifers like me and Casaubon


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## ricbake (Jan 20, 2015)

Look at the way Lambeth manage any of the property in their care - from Cressingham Gardens to the Town Hall - Lambeth Living to Lambeth Facilities Management they are quite hopeless about looking after anything. They bring in consultants who they accept reports from completely uncritically. The consultants then negotiate and oversee contractors with whom they have very close relationships. It is all done on the understanding Lambeth will pay and pay and pay.
The Lambeth Housing Standard Program = £490,000,000
Your Nu Town Hall = £40,000,000

Whats an extra couple of million here and there...


----------



## teuchter (Jan 20, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> The report is written in a way that is a wind up to ex Short Lifers like me and Casaubon


Yes. Fair enough, I can see that.

But I also think the Brixton Buzz article is written in a way that highlights those wind-up passages in the report, rather than explaining clearly about what the extra money is for and how it was or wasn't budgeted for.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 20, 2015)

ricbake said:


> Look at the way Lambeth manage any of the property in their care - from Cressingham Gardens to the Town Hall - Lambeth Living to Lambeth Facilities Management they are quite hopeless about looking after anything. They bring in consultants who they accept reports from completely uncritically. The consultants then negotiate and oversee contractors with whom they have very close relationships. It is all done on the understanding Lambeth will pay and pay and pay.
> The Lambeth Housing Standard Program = £490,000,000
> Your Nu Town Hall = £40,000,000
> 
> Whats an extra couple of million here and there...



On this front, how does Lambeth compare to other local authorities or ministries?


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## ricbake (Jan 20, 2015)

There is a horrendous attitude among suppliers to Local Authorities and publicly funded organisations across the board - I think Lambeth maybe a little better than it once was but that's not saying a lot


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## teuchter (Jan 20, 2015)

ricbake said:


> There is a horrendous attitude among suppliers to Local Authorities and publicly funded organisations across the board -


But why?


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## Gramsci (Jan 20, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Yes. Fair enough, I can see that.
> 
> But I also think the Brixton Buzz article is written in a way that highlights those wind-up passages in the report, rather than explaining clearly about what the extra money is for and how it was or wasn't budgeted for.



The Brixton Buzz piece is short and to the point with a link to officers report. I think its fair enough.


----------



## ash (Jan 20, 2015)

So - San Marino have started playing Magic FM. That's my custom lost : (


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 20, 2015)

The Front Line offy refurb has started.


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> The Brixton Buzz piece is short and to the point with a link to officers report. I think its fair enough.


And it's currently the only local news outlet to have covered the story, which I think is an important one.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 20, 2015)

leanderman said:


> On this front, how does Lambeth compare to other local authorities or ministries?


In a word? Shamefully.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 20, 2015)

teuchter said:


> But why?



Free market capitalist mind set meets public money with lost ideal of doing the right thing for the majority


e2a with absolutely zero negotiating ability


----------



## cuppa tee (Jan 20, 2015)

Fridge Bar Brixton's  facebook status update avoids happy hour promotions and pics of cocktails in jam jars


.................https://www.facebook.com/lateralthink/posts/10152234449892465?frenf


----------



## leanderman (Jan 20, 2015)

Nine flats and retail to replace Mango Landin' (planning app spotted by Rushy)


----------



## Crispy (Jan 20, 2015)

Utterly unsurprising


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2015)

Rashid Nix, Green Party candidate for Dulwich and West Norwood, will be on the Politics Show tonight.

Despite the name, the constituency covers a huge chunk of Brixton.



https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/v...TF8&msa=0&hl=en&mid=zkmyoltjQ4os.kQ3LSRn3BERs


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 20, 2015)

Brockwell Park was stunning this morning, a clear sky, a low sun and shadows cast by the bare trees created streaks of frost upon the green lungs of Lambeth.

Also, spotted this small act of resistance on atlantic Road;
 

It's nice to know that not everyone in Brixton is a free market loving, slave trader quisling.


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2015)

Coming up: 
Lambeth Libraries celebrate LGBT History Month with events promoting local LGBT writers in Brixton and beyond


----------



## CH1 (Jan 20, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Nine flats and retail to replace Mango Landin' (planning app spotted by Rushy) View attachment 66625


At least it's got a round bit. I am getting very bored with angularity.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 20, 2015)

editor said:


> Rashid Nix, Green Party candidate for Dulwich and West Norwood, will be on the Politics Show tonight.
> Despite the name, the constituency covers a huge chunk of Brixton.
> View attachment 66632
> https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/v...TF8&msa=0&hl=en&mid=zkmyoltjQ4os.kQ3LSRn3BERs


I think you mean Daily Politics - repeat of the noon today edition at midnight on BBC Parliament Freeview 131.

Rashid etc is about 35 mins in - all the main candidates in DAWN get a look in - Tory, Labour, Lib Dem and Green.

Rashid was interviewed outside the Barrier Block, which looked quite imposing.
The labour candidate was shown knocking on doors somewhere with maisonettes
The Lib Dem guy chatted whist wheeling his bike over Goose Green
The Tory candidate plotted her evil strategy in an office looking very well turned out.

The piece was really about what the candidates thought/felt about campaigning, not about any specific policies.

Should be on the iPlayer soon, but isn't right now.


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I think you mean Daily Politics - repeat of the noon today edition at midnight on BBC Parliament Freeview 131.
> 
> Rashid etc is about 35 mins in - all the main candidates in DAWN get a look in - Tory, Labour, Lib Dem and Green.
> 
> ...


Rashid is the only candidate I've ever seen campaigning in the streets around Brixton.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 20, 2015)

editor said:


> Rashid is the only candidate I've ever seen campaigning in the streets around Brixton.


That's logical if you think about it. The Brixton part of Dulwich and West Norwood is safe Labour - so sitting candidate Tessa Jowell was best employed trying to get the more Tory & Lib Dem areas of Dulwich onside.

I can't remember in detail earlier elections, but bear in mind that around 2001 Coldharbour was put into Duwich, whereas previously it was Angell Ward, Vauxhall.

The same argument applied to Vauxhall from a Labour point of view though. Brixton was safe Labour whereas the northern areas were marginal.

If they ever redo the boundaries - as should have happened in 2011 but didn't due to the row between Lib Dem and Tories over the House of Lords - then there will probably be a Brixton constituency again and the candidates will not have anywhere to hide.


----------



## colacubes (Jan 20, 2015)

CH1 said:


> That's logical if you think about it. The Brixton part of Dulwich and West Norwood is safe Labour - so sitting candidate Tessa Jowell was best employed trying to get the more Tory & Lib Dem areas of Dulwich onside.
> 
> I can't remember in detail earlier elections, but bear in mind that around 2001 Coldharbour was put into Duwich, whereas previously it was Angell Ward, Vauxhall.
> 
> ...



In the 2005 election Coldharbour ward (or at least my end of it) was still part of Vauxhall.  It only moved into Dulwich and West Norwood in 2010.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 20, 2015)

editor said:


> Simply failing to repaint the window frames and leaving the bare wood open to the elements can cause them to go rotten.
> 
> That's what happened in my block, and it cost a fortune to replace one window with some plastic thing that I very much doubt will last as long as the one it replaced (had it been maintained properly).



Yup.The original window frames on Cressingham were over-painted hardwood that was basically allowed to degrade until bits of frames and occasionally whole windows were falling away.


----------



## haushoch (Jan 20, 2015)

Manter said:


> Does anyone know a charity who could use an oven, hob or dishwasher?



Don't know if you've already found somewhere, but if not I'd suggest donating them to Emmaus:

http://www.emmaus.org.uk/shop/donate_goods

They're really fantastic, they helped out a friend of mine when he desperately needed some white goods but had no money to pay for any.  I hadn't even heard of them before.  They've got two places in Lambeth:

http://www.emmaus.org.uk/lambeth


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 20, 2015)

A Brixton Cocktail Bar Crawl


----------



## leanderman (Jan 20, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> A Brixton Cocktail Bar Crawl



Thanks for reminding me that I need to try out Sovereign Loss, which is number one on that list.


----------



## boohoo (Jan 20, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> A Brixton Cocktail Bar Crawl



 As bad as those people who bang on about craft beers.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 20, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> A Brixton Cocktail Bar Crawl


Intriguing photo of what appears to be the back area of the Shrub and Shutter. Looks a bit more genteel than the back bar of My Fathers Place.


----------



## skf (Jan 20, 2015)

Half Moon Pub Herne Hill characters, anybody remember any of these?
pat the rat, peachy, jerry the junkie, rick the red, the twins, george "bins", the carvers, jerry the poof, greasy lils, willy Finlayson, danny hole, loxly, ron (in advertising) french marie
brixton, angie, the sunday lunch jazz band, hillbilly, mole, boring richard, steve waller, Stevie smith, the blue nosed gang and any members of the "Herne Hill Entertainments Comittee"   and a few more from the squats in railton road?
more to come if i get even one reply.
skf


----------



## skf (Jan 20, 2015)

I forgot spanish steve


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 20, 2015)

brixton just looks like a mini west end for the home counties mob now.


----------



## brixtonblade (Jan 20, 2015)

CH1 said:


> That's logical if you think about it. The Brixton part of Dulwich and West Norwood is safe Labour - so sitting candidate Tessa Jowell was best employed trying to get the more Tory & Lib Dem areas of Dulwich onside.
> 
> I can't remember in detail earlier elections, but bear in mind that around 2001 Coldharbour was put into Duwich, whereas previously it was Angell Ward, Vauxhall.
> 
> ...



The whole seat is pretty safe so it makes sense (in terms of trying to maximise a party's chances of getting more seats in parliament if not in terms of trying to engage everyone irrespective of whether they happen to live in a marginal or not... but that's probably a different discussion) for Lib Dem and Tories to get people leafletting in other constituencies.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 20, 2015)

skf said:


> Half Moon Pub Herne Hill characters, anybody remember any of these?
> pat the rat, peachy, jerry the junkie, rick the red, the twins, george "bins", the carvers, jerry the poof, greasy lils, willy Finlayson, danny hole, loxly, ron (in advertising) french marie
> brixton, angie, the sunday lunch jazz band, hillbilly, mole, boring richard, steve waller, Stevie smith, the blue nosed gang and any members of the "Herne Hill Entertainments Comittee"   and a few more from the squats in railton road?
> more to come if i get even one reply.
> skf


See the twins regularly. Is that Angie who ran the regent?


----------



## skf (Jan 20, 2015)

No i can't even bring myself to name her "partner" (a grass)   she was one of the half moon mob.  is that the irish twins or gary?
skf


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 20, 2015)

I've just seen your post on Harriers/herne thread and I think we're talking of different people. Must be lots of twins about.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 20, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Intriguing photo of what appears to be the back area of the Shrub and Shutter. Looks a bit more genteel than the back bar of My Fathers Place.


The decor looks surprisingly naff, compared to the front bit.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 20, 2015)

teuchter said:


> The decor looks surprisingly naff, compared to the front bit.



Naff and like a cafe. Odd


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

Does anyone know of any cafes in Brixton serving up square sausage?


----------



## han (Jan 21, 2015)

Is that some weird hipstery thing?


----------



## Smick (Jan 21, 2015)

han said:


> Is that some weird hipstery thing?


I think it's a Scottish thing. If you go to McDonalds and get a sausage mcmuffin, it isn't sausage in a case but sausage meat in a patty. Do that in a square shape and that is the square sausage I've had in Scotland.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 21, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> brixton just looks like a mini west end for the home counties mob now.



And with their money they bring a shitty attitude and wonder why they are despised.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 21, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> And with their money they bring a shitty attitude and wonder why they are despised.


my measure of it is - forgetting house prices, if you asked them "would you raise your kids here? send them to the local schools?" if they said no, which i have a funny feeling a majority would, they should fuck off then!


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

han said:


> Is that some weird hipstery thing?



What the other poster said. It's a Scottish thing. I've  had it before years ago. I remember it being surprisingly tasty, it looks rank in the pics on Wikipedia tho  http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lorne_sausage


----------



## technical (Jan 21, 2015)

Lorne sausage is ace. I get my sister to bring me a supply of that and Scotch pies when she comes to visit civilisation every once in a while.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

technical said:


> Lorne sausage is ace. I get my sister to bring me a supply of that and Scotch pies when she comes to visit civilisation every once in a while.



Yes yes but where can I get in brixton?


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 21, 2015)

i want one now please


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> i want one now please



If I find some, I'll let you know.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jan 21, 2015)

you could make your own...............http://www.rampantscotland.com/recipes/blrecipe_sliced.htm


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> you could make your own...............http://www.rampantscotland.com/recipes/blrecipe_sliced.htm



That looks well easy. Thanks


----------



## CH1 (Jan 21, 2015)

Rashid was in the Beehive last night. 
Just about certain to get my vote after that.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2015)

If you have £70 burning a hole in your pocket, why not go for a guided foodie tour of vibrant Brixton market?


> Fox&Squirrel’s Food Walk through Brixton Market explores one of the most exotic, eclectic and unusual markets in England today. Experience an authentic London market and chat to the traders and chefs who have made this place such an exciting culinary destination.
> 
> http://www.foxandsquirrel.com/product/food-walk-london/


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

That's more than I, and many other people round here, have to live on a week. FUCK OFF


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

Not being funny. But I can walk round and talk to traders for free, I don't need to pay some jumped up twats £70 for it. 

£70 you could probably spend a whole fucking day actually eating food in the villaaaaage not just wanking around fucking talking about.

Fuck off friends of Giles Coren muppets!


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Not being funny. But I can walk round and talk to traders for free, I don't need to pay some jumped up twats £70 for it.


East London ones at that!

I might have to have a rant on Buzz about this (or do you fancy doing it?!)


----------



## brixtonblade (Jan 21, 2015)

Is it just me (observing rather than depositing) or is there more dog poop on the pavements than usual lately?


----------



## Yossarian (Jan 21, 2015)

editor said:


> If you have £70 burning a hole in your pocket, why not go for a guided foodie tour of vibrant Brixton market?



For some reason this made me think of RaverDrew - if I believed in ghosts I would be praying for him to come and haunt the hell out of this walk.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jan 21, 2015)

editor said:


> If you have £70 burning a hole in your pocket, why not go for a guided foodie tour of vibrant Brixton market?



fox and squirrel's rabbit sounds like a load of old pony to me.......


----------



## boohoo (Jan 21, 2015)

editor said:


> If you have £70 burning a hole in your pocket, why not go for a guided foodie tour of vibrant Brixton market?



It's very expensive but then it panders to all the tourists and new rich people who are coming over to visit. It's about taking advantage of the money floating around the place and people who are gullible enough to pay for this.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 21, 2015)

It looks like they stop at Asmara and the columbian place, who presumanbly get a cut of the £70.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

I'd rather give them my money direct.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 21, 2015)

brixtonblade said:


> Is it just me (observing rather than depositing) or is there more dog poop on the pavements than usual lately?



At last, proof i am not the only one complaining of this. There is definitely more shit, all the pavements are smeared with dog shit. Landor Road is coated in it as is Canterbury Crescent. It's often in the middle of the pavement, utterly blatant.

Again this morning i complained to Lambeth Council on Twitter who are boasting about their anti spitting campaign. They need to have an anti dog shit campaign. I've never met a responsible dog owner yet.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 21, 2015)

poptyping said:


> I'd rather give them my money direct.


I don't believe this tour is preventing you from doing so.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I don't believe this tour is preventing you from doing so.



And where did I say it was? I know you've got a reputation for pedantry and arseiness but seriously don't bother.


----------



## brixtonblade (Jan 21, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> At last, proof i am not the only one complaining of this. There is definitely more shit, all the pavements are smeared with dog shit. Landor Road is coated in it as is Canterbury Crescent. It's often in the middle of the pavement, utterly blatant.
> 
> Again this morning i complained to Lambeth Council on Twitter who are boasting about their anti spitting campaign. They need to have an anti dog shit campaign. I've never met a responsible dog owner yet.



TBF I dont go along with the "never met a responsible owner" bit but I agree with the rest...  is staring to aggravate me.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 21, 2015)

poptyping said:


> And where did I say it was? I know you've got a reputation for pedantry and arseiness but seriously don't bother.


I was wondering what the actual point of your post "I'd rather give them money direct" was. I don't see how it's relevant. You live locally and aren't a tourist. Of course you'd go direct rather than signing up on a guided tour.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2015)

"Proudly pouring..." 

*barf


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I was wondering what the actual point of your post "I'd rather give them money direct" was. I don't see how it's relevant. You live locally and aren't a tourist. Of course you'd go direct rather than signing up on a guided tour.



Perhaps you missed my previous post where I said that you could spend a day of eating in the village for £70. Hence, I would rather give my money to local businesses direct. I'd get more for my money and so would they. You weren't wondering anything. You're follow up point shows that. I normally like your posts, you make some valid points. But I'm not going to be drawn into one of these annoying tit for tat bullshit arguments that ruin this thread so often. Cheers


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2015)

#punksnotdead

 

Tunstall Road, Brixton


----------



## leanderman (Jan 21, 2015)

brixtonblade said:


> Is it just me (observing rather than depositing) or is there more dog poop on the pavements than usual lately?



Possibly the cold weather. In rain, too, owners can't be bothered to take their dogs as far to a park for a poop.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 21, 2015)

its everywhere.  dogshit, that is.

in islington, brixton, crystal palace, it's impossible to walk along the pavement without doing the dog shit shuffle.  i feel like it follows me around.  it's like living in paris or something.

it never used to be like this,  so are people getting lazier, or is it that the council aren't cleaning the streets as much as they used to?


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2015)

If dog owners don't pick up their pooches shit on busy pavements it should be rubbed in their faces. BY LAW.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 21, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Perhaps you missed my previous post where I said that you could spend a day of eating in the village for £70. Hence, I would rather give my money to local businesses direct. I'd get more for my money and so would they.


As I said, what you would rather do is irrelevant. It's a tour designed for visitors, not local residents. The tour doesn't stop people going directly to the restaurants if they want to. So why the outrage? It's just another example of selectively picking out certain instances of "people spending largeish amounts of money in Brixton" while ignoring loads of other instances. Instead of talking about the bigger picture. It's part of the tabloid style approach to the things that are happening in Brixton that so often makes this thread tedious and repetitive, from my point of view.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 21, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> its everywhere.  dogshit, that is.
> 
> it never used to be like this,  so are people getting lazier, or is it that the council aren't cleaning the streets as much as they used to?



Yet you rarely see it in action - because dog owners are so cunning.

A dog was crapping on the pavement halfway between its owner and me on Blenheim Gardens, Brixton Hill.

As I reached the crime scene, the owner pulled out a bag and even made to reach down.

But, as soon as I passed her, as she returned the bag to her pocket and carried on.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 21, 2015)

i regularly complain to bromley council about it but they just say that the road gets cleaned every fortnight and that's it. 

this is what happens when joyless bastards like me get clean; without bucketloads of drugs to distract us we end up writing endless letters to the council and MP about dog shit.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

teuchter said:


> As I said, what you would rather do is irrelevant. It's a tour designed for visitors, not local residents. The tour doesn't stop people going directly to the restaurants if they want to. So why the outrage? It's just another example of selectively picking out certain instances of "people spending largeish amounts of money in Brixton" while ignoring loads of other instances. Instead of talking about the bigger picture. It's part of the tabloid style approach to the things that are happening in Brixton that so often makes this thread tedious and repetitive, from my point of view.



Please stop. If my opinion is irrelevant why are you engaging with it.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 21, 2015)

editor said:


> If dog owners don't pick up their pooches shit on busy pavements it should be rubbed in their faces. BY LAW.



When I challenged an owner for letting his dog crap on Effra rd he said he would rub _my _face in it


----------



## Dan U (Jan 21, 2015)

where i live dog owners hang the poo bags from bushes, trees and fences

drives me potty. well done for picking up your dog shit, but why the fuck hang that blue bag from a fucking tree in a lovely rural area you wankers.

trod in some at my brothers in Anerley the other week that was hiding under fallen leaves, it proper stunk and walked it through his flat. i was v popular.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

leanderman said:


> When I challenged an owner for letting his dog crap on Effra rd he said he would rub _my _face in it



So rude. I think I might burst out laughing if someone threatened me with that


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

Dan U I just spat out my tea.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 21, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Dan U I just spat out my tea.



sorry!


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

Dan U said:


> sorry!



It think it was 'proper stunk' that did it!


----------



## brixtonblade (Jan 21, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Yet you rarely see it in action - because dog owners are so cunning.
> 
> A dog was crapping on the pavement halfway between its owner and me on Blenheim Gardens, Brixton Hill.
> 
> ...



That's so sneaky.


----------



## Winot (Jan 21, 2015)

teuchter said:


> As I said, what you would rather do is irrelevant. It's a tour designed for visitors, not local residents. The tour doesn't stop people going directly to the restaurants if they want to. So why the outrage? It's just another example of selectively picking out certain instances of "people spending largeish amounts of money in Brixton" while ignoring loads of other instances. Instead of talking about the bigger picture. It's part of the tabloid style approach to the things that are happening in Brixton that so often makes this thread tedious and repetitive, from my point of view.



And the people on the tours probably wouldn't give money direct to the local businesses so there's a net gain.

I coincided with one of these walks on my regular Saturday visit to one of the businesses they visit.  I expressed incredulity that it was necessary to pay for a tour of Brixton's foodie places - why not just go yourself?  The business owner shrugged - they give us money so we don't mind was his reply.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

brixtonblade said:


> That's so sneaky.



Innit. Can't even pretend she didn't notice. Who even are these people.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 21, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Innit. Can't even pretend she didn't notice. Who even are these people.



The only other person I have challenged, in Josephine Ave, was much more up front: saying: 'Just walk around it'


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

leanderman said:


> The only other person I have challenged, in Josephine Ave, was much more up front:, saying: 'Just walk around it'



Hardly the bliddy point. Ugh.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 21, 2015)

follow them home and post it through their letterboxes, dirty bastards.

thing is, it's inconvenient for us able bodied adults, but fucking shit, literally, for people who can't avoid it for various reasons, and kids are bloody useless at avoiding it, so it gets trailed everywhere.  imagine being a wheelchair user and wheeling over a lump of fucking shit because some prick thinks they're too good to bag their dog's shit.  it's a very visceral reminder of what people think of you innit.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 21, 2015)

brixtonblade said:


> TBF I dont go along with the "never met a responsible owner" bit but I agree with the rest...  is staring to aggravate me.



Yeah, i just added that last bit to shit stir.
Spotted a dog turd on Coldharbour Lane, just past The Albert next to the Pelican crossing; it was fresh.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 21, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Yet you rarely see it in action - because dog owners are so cunning.
> 
> A dog was crapping on the pavement halfway between its owner and me on Blenheim Gardens, Brixton Hill.
> 
> ...


Why would someone do that? I appreciate that the idea of picking up shit with a bag is not a pleasant one to the uninitiated but once you've done it a couple of times it normally doesn't even register. What you feed it helps too.

I once offered a bag to someone whose dog had taken a dump whilst waiting for the traffic lights to change outside Tulse Hill Sainsburys. I was told to fuck off you posh cunt . And they proceed to drag it still shitting across the road.

My dog is so posh she will only do the business on grass.


----------



## T & P (Jan 21, 2015)

In Chelsea at least they have the good grace to place the dog poo inside a small black bag- but then they leave it on the pavement next to a tree or lamppost.

Which begs the question: if you actually have bothered to scoop up the dog excrement and put it in a bag, how much more of an effort is it to put the bag in a bin, rather than drop it on the street?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 21, 2015)

they do that here in islington where i work.  little bags of shit everywhere.  to go with the actual shit that is everywhere.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 21, 2015)

Redeploy traffic wardens from ticketing vehicles parked and not causing any obstruction to targeting dog shit dumpers; Popes Road is heavily patrolled by these green uniformed nazis and is another road whose pavements are smeared with dog shit.

£100 fine per shit should clean the problem up.

And those multiple dog walkers in Brockwell Park, four to six dogs all running free, never see them pick up.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jan 21, 2015)

I am a dog owner who takes this shit seriously, so much that I once bought a 2 litre bottle of water to wash down the
pavement when my old dog had the shits and left a mess that was unpickupable, I know a lot of other dog owners and tbh
none of us like dog shit on the pavement or even in the dog area in parks so will confront offenders and offer a bag as Rushy did.
I am however noticing a increasingly confrontational attitude amongst the anti-dog types who will often try and provoke arguments with dog owners
when no offence has been committed


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

cuppa tee is one of the good ones. More dog owners should come forward and condemn the the shit and leave brigade in our midst. I mean, they are the ones best places to know who the culprits in their communities are. There could be one of them hiding next door right now planning to shit and leave all over the neighbourhood.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 21, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> I am however noticing a increasingly confrontational attitude amongst the anti-dog types who will often try and provoke arguments with dog owners
> when no offence has been committed


This may be unwise, depending on the dog...


----------



## technical (Jan 21, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Yes yes but where can I get in brixton?



Never seen it on sale in anywhere in England never mind London. You can though get it online from various Scottish butchers that do those frozen deliveries. In effect you have to buy in bulk to make it worthwhile (and you probably need a decent sized freezer!)


----------



## wurlycurly (Jan 21, 2015)

technical said:


> Never seen it on sale in anywhere in England never mind London. You can though get it online from various Scottish butchers that do those frozen deliveries. In effect you have to buy in bulk to make it worthwhile (and you probably need a decent sized freezer!)


Chadwick butcher's in Balham always has it in stock. It's the right shape obviously but lacks the grainy quality of the real McCoy. it's also absurdly overpriced. They also sell Scotch pies which are nothing of the sort.


----------



## madolesance (Jan 21, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Does anyone know of any cafes in Brixton serving up square sausage?



Not Brixton, but I have bought square sausage in "Scotch Meats" Rosendale Road.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

madolesance said:


> Not Brixton, but I have bought square sausage in "Scotch Meats" Rosendale Road.



Hooray. Thank you. I can make my own FSB. Doesn't have the same ring to it really.


----------



## OvalhouseDB (Jan 21, 2015)

Anyone who has ever had a primary school aged child will know the terrible impact of dog shit on the walk to school and the   'carpet time' that starts the day. 30 5 year olds can be covered in it in a trice.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 21, 2015)

Got a scary text from daughter's school about some bloke in Lambeth trying to get Kids into his car. 3 attempts apparently.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> Got a scary text from daughter's school about some bloke in Lambeth trying to get Kids into his car. 3 attempts apparently.


I posted something on Buzz about that, just in case. I hope they get the weirdo.


----------



## han (Jan 21, 2015)

Fuck. 
And here I am, thinking about square sausages.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

han said:


> Fuck.
> And here I am, thinking about square sausages.



Square sausages are very important. For some reason, I thought you were a veggie


----------



## han (Jan 21, 2015)

[emoji15] the horror!


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 21, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Square sausages are very important. For some reason, I thought you were a veggie





han said:


> [emoji15] the horror!



i thought you were both veggies


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 21, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> i thought you were both veggies



Not for a while, mate. But maybe one day again. After I've scoffed some sausages


----------



## Rushy (Jan 21, 2015)

I never would have believed that discussions on square sausages and dog poo could blend so seamlessly.

Hot dog, anyone?


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 21, 2015)

editor said:


> I posted something on Buzz about that, just in case. I hope they get the weirdo.



more details here..

http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...ed_schoolgirl_abductions_in_lambeth_1_3925808


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 21, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Square sausages are very important. For some reason, I thought you were a veggie


One of the butchers in the street market on a Sunday in Herne Hill sells them too


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 21, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> One of the butchers in the street market on a Sunday in Herne Hill sells them too



Now i'm going to have to try them.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 21, 2015)

editor said:


> Rashid Nix, Green Party candidate for Dulwich and West Norwood, will be on the Politics Show tonight.
> 
> Despite the name, the constituency covers a huge chunk of Brixton.





CH1 said:


> Rashid was in the Beehive last night.
> Just about certain to get my vote after that.


I went to college with Rashid…in fact, he's changed his name since I knew him! Seemed a decent guy, def a bit of a radical back then. Gave me a job in the students union when I was skint, good work fella   Green Party are bit suspect in some areas but I'd prob vote for him if it was my constituency (I'm in "Vauxhall", which is crazy.)


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 21, 2015)

editor said:


> Rashid Nix, Green Party candidate for Dulwich and West Norwood, will be on the Politics Show tonight.
> 
> Despite the name, the constituency covers a huge chunk of Brixton.
> 
> ...



I am glad Rashid is standing. I do rate him as someone who genuinely cares about the area. He is a bright guy. 

Its unlikely he will get elected as green candidate. I meet local activists who would make excellent Cllrs or MPs but will never get there as politics is run by the "centre ground". 

Lambeth imo opinion is still dominated by awful New Labour. No one else will get a look in.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2015)

He is a good fella and truly committed to grassroots concerns, unlike most of 'em.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 21, 2015)

editor said:


> If you have £70 burning a hole in your pocket, why not go for a guided foodie tour of vibrant Brixton market?



As has been said before if you want a guided tour of market by a knowledgeable local Brixton Society do them for £3 including the very good book on the market.



> Next walk: 14 February 2015. Advance reservations are available for the walk by e-mailing as below. Tickets £3 (includes book) The walk starts from the corner of Beehive Place and Brixton Station Road at 2.30pm and takes around one and a quarter hours.



Fox and Squirrel can fuck off with their £70 tours.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> As has been said before if you want a guided tour of market by a knowledgeable local Brixton Society do them for £3 including the very good book on the market.
> 
> 
> 
> Fox and Squirrel can fuck off with their £70 tours.


I'm going to be doing a piece about these £70 shysters and make a big point of plugging the Brixton Society one


----------



## Ms T (Jan 22, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Innit. Can't even pretend she didn't notice. Who even are these people.


As a more than occasional dog walker, I find it strange that people would even consider not picking up their dog's poo, and then put it in the nearest bin. It's disgusting not to. All the regular dog walkers I see in the park pick up the poo. Even my blind friend (who owns the dog I walk) can manage it.  And as for leaving the poo hanging on a fence. Wtf?

The reason there's more poo though is less street cleaning because of spending cuts. I used to regularly see a really nice lady street cleaner on my way to an early shift. Not any more.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 22, 2015)

Ms T said:


> AAll the regular dog walkers I see in the park pick up the poo. Even my blind friend (who owns the dog I walk) can manage it.


Crikey. How on earth do they manage that? (Detailed response not required!)


----------



## Ms T (Jan 22, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Crikey. How on earth do they manage that? (Detailed response not required!)


Dog is on the lead so he knows roughly where it is. If she's off the lead, I am there (or Hendo).


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 22, 2015)

I'm just leaving these here:

https://www.zoolafix.com/london/brixton 
https://www.zoolafix.com/search/london

Sadly no one specialises in Brixton yet.


----------



## steeeve (Jan 22, 2015)

editor said:


> I'm going to be doing a piece about these £70 shysters and make a big point of plugging the Brixton Society one



Just read the article, brilliant


----------



## leanderman (Jan 22, 2015)

editor said:


> I'm going to be doing a piece about these £70 shysters and make a big point of plugging the Brixton Society one



Good work. I wouldn't even pay £70 for a wine tasting. Well, not quite.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

Here is the article: 
Cash-in company charges £70 for a foodie tour of Brixton market. We have a better alternative


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 22, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> I'm just leaving these here:
> 
> https://www.zoolafix.com/london/brixton
> https://www.zoolafix.com/search/london
> ...



bunch of cunts


----------



## teuchter (Jan 22, 2015)

editor said:


> Here is the article:
> Cash-in company charges £70 for a foodie tour of Brixton market. We have a better alternative


So if I've got £70, I shouldn't spend it on the food tour because "ventures like this are the very thing that are driving market prices up".

Instead the £67 I've saved gives me "a whole load more money to spend in the local shops and restaurants".

How come spending the £70 drives prices up but the £67 doesn't?


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> I'm just leaving these here:
> 
> https://www.zoolafix.com/london/brixton
> https://www.zoolafix.com/search/london
> ...


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

teuchter said:


> So if I've got £70, I shouldn't spend it on the food tour because "ventures like this are the very thing that are driving market prices up".
> 
> Instead the £67 I've saved gives me "a whole load more money to spend in the local shops and restaurants".
> 
> How come spending the £70 drives prices up but the £67 doesn't?


Not interested, sorry.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

Other local news for discussion:

Labour table only one motion out of a possible three at Full Council as Green party ask for allocation
Myatt’s Fields Park Project gains funding to help develop co-operative management on behalf of Lambeth Council
Cllr Jack Hopkins provides update over Pope’s Road but provides little explanation as to why project has changed
Council to undertake resident parking review after pressure from Brixton Hill, Tulse Hill & Vassall Cllrs


----------



## brixtonblade (Jan 22, 2015)

editor said:


> Other local news for discussion:
> 
> Labour table only one motion out of a possible three at Full Council as Green party ask for allocation
> Myatt’s Fields Park Project gains funding to help develop co-operative management on behalf of Lambeth Council
> ...



What is the parking review looking at?  If there should be more/less CPZs?


----------



## T & P (Jan 22, 2015)

I suspect more... Many streets around Brixton Hill are free to park on- quite surprising, considering that a short stroll will then take you to Brixton Tube and onto central London.

Some areas of Tulse Hill are also free, so they are a magnet for out-of-towners who work in The City- a mere 15 minutes away by train from Tulse Hill BR Station.

It would be nice if the CPZs were free to the residents, or at least a very low nominal charge. There is no justification whatsoever for charging three-figure amounts. It is not about deterrence, as by definition only residents can park there.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 22, 2015)

brixtonblade said:


> What is the parking review looking at?  If there should be more/less CPZs?


More CPZ's - most of Vassall Ward has free for all parking - it is getting jam packed Monday to Friday with commuters driving in and then continuing their journeys by foot, bike, bus, train and tube. It makes it difficult to deal with abandoned vehicles, it causes incidents of road rage and obstructive parking - CPZs are the way it will go - We have seen people down on Patmos and Calais St. park up while they get the bus to Victoria with their suitcases then on to Gatwick for a fortnights holiday with free parking!


----------



## T & P (Jan 22, 2015)

ricbake said:


> More CPZ's - most of Vassall Ward has free for all parking - it is getting jam packed Monday to Friday with commuters driving in and then continuing their journeys by foot, bike, bus, train and tube. It makes it difficult to deal with abandoned vehicles, it causes incidents of road rage and obstructive parking - CPZs are the way it will go - We have seen people down on Patmos and Calais St. park up while they get the bus to Victoria with their suitcases then on to Gatwick for a fortnights holiday with free parking!


 Amateurs. If they park around Tulse Hill or West Norwood, they avoid having to go via Victoria and thus save time and money


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 22, 2015)

T & P said:


> I suspect more... Many streets around Brixton Hill are free to park on- quite surprising, considering that a short stroll will then take you to Brixton Tube and onto central London.
> 
> Some areas of Tulse Hill are also free, so they are a magnet for out-of-towners who work in The City- a mere 15 minutes away by train from Tulse Hill BR Station.
> 
> It would be nice if the CPZs were free to the residents, or at least a very low nominal charge. There is no justification whatsoever for charging three-figure amounts. It is not about deterrence, as by definition only residents can park there.



we have this on our street... at the weekend there's only a smattering of cars.  During week days people circle around waiting for householders to leave and take the spaces.  There's the usual debate on our street between those who want a CPZ and those who don't.   Some worry it means friends/family won't come and visit.  At my mum's they do a 1 hour period bang smack in the middle of the day when people can't park which means people can't leave the cars there 9-5.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 22, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> more details here..
> 
> http://www.london24.com/news/crime/...ed_schoolgirl_abductions_in_lambeth_1_3925808



so latest is that a 24 year old man has been arrested in connection with this (unconfirmed)


----------



## colacubes (Jan 22, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> we have this on our street... at the weekend there's only a smattering of cars.  During week days people circle around waiting for householders to leave and take the spaces.  There's the usual debate on our street between those who want a CPZ and those who don't.   Some worry it means friends/family won't come and visit.  *At my mum's they do a 1 hour period bang smack in the middle of the day when people can't park which means people can't leave the cars there 9-5*.



I noticed they have that in some of the streets round Herne Hill station.  Seems like a sensible solution to me.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 22, 2015)

colacubes said:


> I noticed they have that in some of the streets round Herne Hill station.  Seems like a sensible solution to me.



yeah.. it seems sensible to me.  She also gets free tokens for visitors should they wish to park during that time.


----------



## ringo (Jan 22, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> so latest is that a 24 year old man has been arrested in connection with this (unconfirmed)



Cheers for the info


----------



## leanderman (Jan 22, 2015)

colacubes said:


> I noticed they have that in some of the streets round Herne Hill station.  Seems like a sensible solution to me.



We are campaigning for 12-2 (or similar) on Brixton Hill, where it is 8.30-6.30. 

Council is refusing to play ball, so the ombudsman is being called in.


----------



## passivejoe (Jan 22, 2015)

editor said:


> Here is the article:
> Cash-in company charges £70 for a foodie tour of Brixton market. We have a better alternative



Seems a bit harsh... wrapping sneering speech marks around selected quotes from their website, digging through one of the guide's blogs to find more salacious gossip. How disgusting that she has a large kitchen in Lambeth! Did you try calling to talk to them about it, to ask their opinion on the fee?  Did you ask where the £70 goes... how much the restaurants on the route get vs how much the guides take for a 3 hour tour?

He blog says she writes for Brixton Blog and bugle so it can't be hard to track her down to ask a couple of basic questions....


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

passivejoe said:


> Seems a bit harsh... wrapping sneering speech marks around selected quotes from their website, digging through one of the guide's blogs to find more salacious gossip. How disgusting that she has a large kitchen in Lambeth! Did you try calling to talk to them about it, to ask their opinion on the fee?  Did you ask where the £70 goes... how much the restaurants on the route get vs how much the guides take for a 3 hour tour?
> 
> He blog says she writes for Brixton Blog and bugle so it can't be hard to track her down to ask a couple of basic questions....


I used the information that had freely been posted in the public domain, and also provided links so others could read the full story, if so inclined. I didn't feel the need to ring her up and personally ask her about her amazingly large kitchen, but if you wish to find out more, feel free to contact her and publish your own thoughts.


----------



## passivejoe (Jan 22, 2015)

editor said:


> I used the information that had freely been posted in the public domain, and also provided links so others could read the full story, if so inclined. I didn't feel the need to ring her up and personally ask her about her amazingly large kitchen, but if you wish to find out more, feel free to contact her and publish your own thoughts.



Not really, just seems a bit snide. You made the effort to scour her blog and write the article, add a few flawed assumptions on the fee and publish for all to see but not to ask her directly? 
Given Brixton Buzz's tagline "The latest Brixton news, listings, features...", would this come under News or Features? Perhaps a new category is needed.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

passivejoe said:


> Not really, just seems a bit snide. You made the effort to scour her blog and write the article, add a few flawed assumptions on the fee and publish for all to see but not to ask her directly?
> Given Brixton Buzz's tagline "The latest Brixton news, listings, features...", would this come under News or Features? Perhaps a new category is needed.


For the record, I did no 'scouring' - I wanted to do a bit of research into who was behind the tour, so I typed in her name and that's what I came up, right at the top. No 'digging' was needed as it was her most recent post on her own site. Took me a few moments.


passivejoe said:


> Given Brixton Buzz's tagline "The latest Brixton news, listings, features...", would this come under News or Features? Perhaps a new category is needed.


No, I think it's just fine as it is, thanks.

What are these "flawed assumptions" btw?


----------



## Winot (Jan 22, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> so latest is that a 24 year old man has been arrested in connection with this (unconfirmed)



Now confirmed. 

http://bbc.in/1CExC87


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 22, 2015)

How do you feel about Elsa telling her stories?





"Come meet Elsa this weekend on our Brixton Food Walk.  She'll be telling you all about Ethiopian Xmas, which is celebrated on the 6th of January instead of the 25th of December, and the customs that accompany this lovely celebration. She'll tell tales while serving her delicious coffee accompanied by the magical scent of frankincense" 

You don't get that at Federation.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 22, 2015)

passivejoe said:


> Not really, just seems a bit snide. You made the effort to scour her blog and write the article, add a few flawed assumptions on the fee and publish for all to see but not to ask her directly?


I'm sure editor wouldn't mind if pieces of information, that are freely available in public on the web, about his private life and spending choices were used in a similar "news" piece about some commercial activity that he was involved in.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 22, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> How do you feel about Elsa telling her stories?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I worry that Elsa's income is being put at risk by local organisations prepared to exploit the goodwill of unpaid volunteers to offer ever cheaper and cheaper walks for the benefit of Brixton's tourists.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 22, 2015)

It wouldnt be for me but I've no issue with the food walking tour. If somebody wants to provide it and others want to take it, its up to them. 

There is a food too one on the go in Amsterdam for the last while for €70 (I think) so £70 for a similar thing in London seems to be fairly comparable.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

Rushy said:


> I worry that Elsa's income is being put at risk by local organisations prepared to exploit the goodwill of unpaid volunteers to offer ever cheaper and cheaper walks for the benefit of Brixton's tourists.


Is Elsa's income dependent on these occasional walks briefly drifting by then?


----------



## Rushy (Jan 22, 2015)

editor said:


> Is Elsa's income dependent on these occasional walks briefly drifting by then?


Interesting point. I had not considered the possibility that she might be telling stories to people on £70 tours just for the lolz.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Interesting point. I had not considered the possibility that she might be telling stories to people on £70 tours just for the lolz.


In your enthusiasm to drag this thread down into the usual petty and disruptive personal bicker-fest, you seem to avoided answering the point completely.

On what actual, real-world grounds is Elsa's income being "put at risk" here? And who is being "exploited"?


----------



## Winot (Jan 22, 2015)

editor said:


> Is Elsa's income dependent on these occasional walks briefly drifting by then?



Presumably she gets paid by the tour organiser (as does the local business I mentioned upthread). If the tours stop, her income will drop.


----------



## Manter (Jan 22, 2015)

T & P said:


> I suspect more... Many streets around Brixton Hill are free to park on- quite surprising, considering that a short stroll will then take you to Brixton Tube and onto central London.
> 
> Some areas of Tulse Hill are also free, so they are a magnet for out-of-towners who work in The City- a mere 15 minutes away by train from Tulse Hill BR Station.
> 
> It would be nice if the CPZs were free to the residents, or at least a very low nominal charge. There is no justification whatsoever for charging three-figure amounts. It is not about deterrence, as by definition only residents can park there.


Yeah, I got a mouthful from a commuter this week who wanted to park in his 'usual' space outside my house but I was standing in it waiting for the builder's van. Apparently I am a selfish c--t......


----------



## gaijingirl (Jan 22, 2015)

Manter said:


> Yeah, I got a mouthful from a commuter this week who wanted to park in his 'usual' space outside my house but I was standing in it waiting for the builder's van. Apparently I am a selfish c--t......



Someone tried to park across our neighbour's drive - when I pointed out she was blocking his drive she claimed it was "not fair", so she should be allowed to park there anyway.  Bit silly really as doing that only guarantees he'll go for the CPZ and then she'll be screwed in the end.


----------



## Manter (Jan 22, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> Someone tried to park across our neighbour's drive - when I pointed out she was blocking his drive she claimed it was "not fair", so she should be allowed to park there anyway.  Bit silly really as doing that only guarantees he'll go for the CPZ and then she'll be screwed in the end.


Some odd people about. Though I'm sure I'm batshit and unreasonable at times too. 

A commuter also ripped the disabled parking sign down from further up our street (there is an old guy that has a disabled bay outside his house, has done for about 10 years;  road markings have worn off, but the sign is new and clear) and hidden it in my neighbours' wheelie bin. She put it back, so they have taken it down again- I found it in our bin last night


----------



## T & P (Jan 22, 2015)

Manter said:


> Yeah, I got a mouthful from a commuter this week who wanted to park in his 'usual' space outside my house but I was standing in it waiting for the builder's van. Apparently I am a selfish c--t......




Perhaps you should ask some local kids to approach him one morning and ask him if he would like them to watch his car and protect it from vandals for a reasonable daily fee, as bad things have started to happen to cars parked in the area.

Just for laugh, like...


----------



## Rushy (Jan 22, 2015)

Winot said:


> Presumably she gets paid by the tour organiser (as does the local business I mentioned upthread). If the tours stop, her income will drop.


Your fancy theories don't half make me chuckle, Winot.


----------



## Manter (Jan 22, 2015)

T & P said:


> Perhaps you should ask some local kids to approach him one morning and ask him if he would like them to watch his car and protect it from vandals for a reasonable daily fee, as bad things have started to happen to cars parked in the area.
> 
> Just for laugh, like...


Tempting.... But I really cba. A cpz would spoil his day rather more completely


----------



## Rushy (Jan 22, 2015)

gaijingirl said:


> Someone tried to park across our neighbour's drive - when I pointed out she was blocking his drive she claimed it was "not fair", so she should be allowed to park there anyway.  Bit silly really as doing that only guarantees he'll go for the CPZ and then she'll be screwed in the end.


I found someone parking over my drive the other day. When I asked them to move they asked "how was I supposed to know you'd want to get out?"


----------



## brixtonblade (Jan 22, 2015)

Rushy said:


> I found someone parking over my drive the other day. When I asked them to move they asked "how was I supposed to know you'd want to get out?"



Fairly tangential but this reminded me of the time I lent a friend of mine a pair of shoes for a job interview.  When he gave them back there were big cuts down the heel - he told me he'd cut them with a bread knife and asked "how did you think I'd get them on?  You know I've got bigger feet than you."


----------



## SpamMisery (Jan 22, 2015)

If I had a penny for every time I saw the phrase "one of the most deprived neighbourhoods/wards/estates in the country" I'd probably have enough to go on the Fox&Squirrel tour


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> If I had a penny for every time I saw the phrase "one of the most deprived neighbourhoods/wards/estates in the country" I'd probably have enough to go on the Fox&Squirrel tour


It's a fact that can't get repeated enough in my book. It would be easy to assume that everything in Brixton is just tickety-boo if you went by what you read in a lot of the media.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 22, 2015)

Hey, did anyone know that Brixton is one of the most deprived areas in the UK?


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Hey, did anyone know that Brixton is one of the most deprived areas in the UK?


At least get the facts right if you're going to try and be funny.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 22, 2015)

editor said:


> Here is the article:
> Cash-in company charges £70 for a foodie tour of Brixton market. We have a better alternative


Retweeted that (does that make me part of the problem?) as it's such a great takedown.


----------



## SpamMisery (Jan 22, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Hey, did anyone know that Brixton is one of the most deprived areas in the UK?



I think I've heard that before



editor said:


> _Eight areas in Lambeth are among the 10% of most deprived parts of the country. Five of these are in the Brixton area:_.





shygirl said:


> I live in a council estate in one of London's most deprived wards.






			
				editor said:
			
		

> It's also the 12th most deprived London ward on income scale. There are a total of 624 electoral wards in London





editor said:


> Oh, so if one well off resident from the large estate that sits in Lambeth's most deprived ward can afford to spend £££s on jolly novelty cocktails then clearly the rest of the argument is null and void.






editor said:


> Can't help thinking it would be nice if they gave a bit back sometime.  After all, they are operating their upmarket business in one of the most deprived wards in Lambeth.





editor said:


> Indeed. Lambeth is one of the most deprived London boroughs [-] and Coldharbour is the poorest ward in Lambeth:



Oh wait, I see what you did there


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> I think I've heard that before
> Oh wait, I see what you did there


I'm sorry if you find people discussing the subject of local poverty so dull and tedious although I'm not sure what point you're hoping to achieve by dredging up a series of posts from various threads, some of which are over a year old. Or are you just hoping to disrupt the thread?


----------



## SpamMisery (Jan 22, 2015)

If I had a penny for every time I was accused of disrupting a thread...


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 22, 2015)

editor said:


> Other local news for discussion:
> 
> Cllr Jack Hopkins provides update over Pope’s Road but provides little explanation as to why project has changed






			
				Cllr Jack Hopkins said:
			
		

> The project is a practical exercise amongst others to bring social value into the supply chain with private sector partners and we expect this to influence how we can change policy and practice with respect to this


What the fuck does that actually mean?


----------



## Manter (Jan 22, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> What the fuck does that actually mean?


only buy stuff from people who aren't shits.

heavily paraphrased.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jan 22, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> What the fuck does that actually mean?


We're selling out to starbucks etc.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> What the fuck does that actually mean?


It means, "Be quiet citizen. This does not concern you."


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 22, 2015)

Manter said:


> Some odd people about. Though I'm sure I'm batshit and unreasonable at times too.
> 
> A commuter also ripped the disabled parking sign down from further up our street (there is an old guy that has a disabled bay outside his house, has done for about 10 years;  road markings have worn off, but the sign is new and clear) and hidden it in my neighbours' wheelie bin. She put it back, so they have taken it down again- I found it in our bin last night



unbelievable really. film them. get/him her knicked. either that or get every bloke in the street to square up to the selfish bastard.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 22, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Hey, did anyone know that Brixton is one of the most deprived areas in the UK?


It's certainly less vibrant than Manchester going by Channel 4's offering this evening (nearly choked on my tea - I'll be on the Trainline shortly to book for an exploratory visit)


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2015)

I'm in Hootananny tonight and so far my impressions have been sadly really negative.

Two security patdowns just to get in and rude, non speaking door/ticket/bar staff. 

The reggae sound system is wonderful, mind, but at the moment everyone is in the back bar.


----------



## Effrasurfer (Jan 22, 2015)

editor said:


> I'm in Hootananny tonight and so far my impressions have been sadly really negative.
> 
> Two security patdowns just to get in and rude, non speaking door/ticket/bar staff.
> 
> The reggae sound system is wonderful, mind, but at the moment everyone is in the back bar.


Could you pick up my veg bag from the cupboard by the entrance gate? There's a lamb.


----------



## Effrasurfer (Jan 22, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> How do you feel about Elsa telling her stories?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Very hospitable people the Ethopians and Eritreans in Station Road. 3 or 4 years ago I got chatting to a friend of Saba (the original coffee lady) and she invited me, a total stranger, to her house (in Streatham) for their Christmas feast. The food was unforgettable!


----------



## Effrasurfer (Jan 22, 2015)




----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

Effrasurfer said:


> Very hospitable people the Ethopians and Eritreans in Station Road. 3 or 4 years ago I got chatting to a friend of Saba (the original coffee lady) and she invited me, a total stranger, to her house (in Streatham) for their Christmas feast. The food was unforgettable!


Aw, that's lovely!


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

So tonight's bar/club rundown. It was a strangely quiet kind of Brixton evening:

Hootananny - quite busy but not a lot of fun (for me)
Effra Social - really quiet
Market House - really quiet
Prince of Wales - really quiet
Albert - modest crowd
414 - really quiet 
Dogstar - so quiet they threw in the towel at 1am.


----------



## madolesance (Jan 23, 2015)

editor said:


> So tonight's bar/club rundown. It was a strangely quiet kind of Brixton evening:
> 
> Hootananny - quite busy but not a lot of fun (for me)
> Effra Social - really quiet
> ...



So we traveled north to the 'Finsbury' in Manor House and saw two fantastic Brixton bands, 'The Messengers of God' and the always mighty 'Morton Valance'. Well worth the trip. A few other Brixton folks also made the trip and we all had a great time. Unfortunately when we got back the Albert was closed, Hoot was charging, so a quick night cap at home then to bed.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

madolesance said:


> So we traveled north to the 'Finsbury' in Manor House and saw two fantastic Brixton bands, 'The Messengers of God' and the always mighty 'Morton Valance'. Well worth the trip. A few other Brixton folks also made the trip and we all had a great time. Unfortunately when we got back the Albert was closed, Hoot was charging, so a quick night cap at home then to bed.


I know both the bands very well indeed! Morton Valence are a wonderful band and they've played Offline about - blimey - seven times or so - and the Messengers played the Albert back in 2004!


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

Blooming chilly out there tonight too.


----------



## madolesance (Jan 23, 2015)

editor said:


> I know both the bands very well indeed! Morton Valence are a wonderful band and they've played Offline about - blimey - seven times or so - and the Messengers played the Albert back in 2004!



2004, that line up has changed a lot. Still very good!


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 23, 2015)

End of the month in January and a cold night - most people are probably at home counting their pennies and regretting a dry January.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 23, 2015)

The Tulse Hill Hotel was very busy. Tried the Crown on Brixton Hill too. Dangerously cheap. Two proper pints for £4.30! Two double Hendricks and Fentimans for £7.10!!


----------



## boohoo (Jan 23, 2015)

This deprivation issue - from 2011 data, the Coldharbour ward was no. 12 in low income as an indication and number 1 in employment deprivation. However overall when placed with the other indicators which are health deprivation and disability, education, skills and training deprivation, barriers to housing services, living environment deprivation and crime, the Coldharbour ward is not in the top 20. The fact they are high on the low income measure shows how frustrating it can be to see businesses aimed at the well off move out the businesses that were serving the poorer community.

I live next to one of Lambeth's deprived areas but it's issues are more to do with access to opportunities. I couldn't find a more in-depth view of the differences between one deprived area and another.

These deprived areas of Lambeth especially in Brixton will be changing as private renters are pushed out and estates changed such as the huge change to Stockwell Park estate and the removal of Wayland house. Asking the question about where these people are going and is it changing their opportunities feels like something that needs to be talked about too.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 23, 2015)

It's the usual suspects hunting like a pack of rabid dogs dumping their shit all over the thread. They don't need to disrupt to win, for them it's a sport; they get off on it.
Poverty is not part of their life and therefore it's absent in their narrative, mention of it irritates them. They don't want it to go away because they feed off the poor. They want the poor to go away but not too far, just out of their neighbourhood, at arms length and chained to serve; for a minimum wage of course. A modest aim of a living wage has them choking on their popcorn.

It's property not poverty that really makes them foam at the mouth.

The lowest mortgage rates in history, over a sustained period, it's not home owners being evicted. They are busy building new kitchens and counting their capital gains. These fuckers have never had it so good. A report* out today indicates that middle income earners have emerged largely unscathed from the punishing economic paradigm of austerity, yet still they groan at the mention of deprivation.

* Institute For Fiscal Studies - The effect of the coalition’s tax and benefit changes on household incomes and work incentives. http://www.ifs.org.uk/publications/7534


----------



## Manter (Jan 23, 2015)

boohoo said:


> This deprivation issue - from 2011 data, the Coldharbour ward was no. 12 in low income as an indication and number 1 in employment deprivation. However overall when placed with the other indicators which are health deprivation and disability, education, skills and training deprivation, barriers to housing services, living environment deprivation and crime, the Coldharbour ward is not in the top 20. The fact they are high on the low income measure shows how frustrating it can be to see businesses aimed at the well off move out the businesses that were serving the poorer community.
> 
> I live next to one of Lambeth's deprived areas but it's issues are more to do with access to opportunities. I couldn't find a more in-depth view of the differences between one deprived area and another.
> 
> These deprived areas of Lambeth especially in Brixton will be changing as private renters are pushed out and estates are changes such as the huge change to Stockwell Park estate and the removal of Wayland house. Asking the question about where these people are going and is it changing their opportunities feels like something that needs to be talked about too.


I think the removal of opportunity point (if I've understood it) is a good one. Lots of the funding being cut is to 'supplementary' programmes (I hate the term) that aim to deliver longer term positive outcomes- improved access to education, better educational outcomes, gang intervention programmes, adult education, diversity and inclusion programmes, arts and cultural programmes etc etc. I think it'll have a longer term deleterious effect on society as a whole, but we'll only see it in about 10 years. When the pendulum will swing wildly in the other direction, as it does. 

I don't have an answer- I know there isn't endless money and core services need to take the bulk of what *is* available- but there is a marked difference in the experience of (for example) a new immigrant with small children today and five years ago, which will affect her integration, her children's outcomes educationally and socially, her ability to contribute to society.... It feels like a false economy to me


----------



## boohoo (Jan 23, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood But where are the poor going? There was talk of people being moved to other cities and towns. I wonder what that impact is . As Manter said will these people have access to opportunity or will it create new pockets of poverty in other cities leaving London to the rich.

If my partner wasn't so tied to London, I would leave. My sister is considering leaving. I love my city but don't want to spend every bit of my money on paying rent so that someone gets an extra holiday.


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 23, 2015)

Here's the Index of Multiple Deprivation stats for those interested: 

https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/def...12 Ward Level Summary Measures of ID 2010.pdf

2010 Dataset with 2012 updates.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 23, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Dexter Deadwood *But where are the poor going?* There was talk of people being moved to other cities and towns. I wonder what that impact is . As Manter said will these people have access to opportunity or will it create new pockets of poverty in other cities leaving London to the rich.
> 
> If my partner wasn't so tied to London, I would leave. My sister is considering leaving. I love my city but don't want to spend every bit of my money on paying rent so that someone gets an extra holiday.



Well, a couple (both working), living in my block renting from a buy to let spiv who bought the property from Lambeth and then doubled the rent, have recently moved to Deptford after the owner put the rent up another 20%. They lasted one year. The one bedroom flat was immediately re let. 

It's not just individual property spivs that are the problem, Lambeth as a landlord are also fully engaged in shunting the poor to anywhere but their door. It's a total abrogation of social responsibility largely supported by those middle income earners cashing in; they are living the dream but there are no opportunities on a minimum wage even survival becomes an uncertainty.

Where are the poor going? When they are not disappearing from the narrative they are being held up as figures of ridicule, blamed for all the ills of a middle class idyll and when they raise their voices in protest they are told to shut up and go away.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> Here's the Index of Multiple Deprivation stats for those interested:
> 
> https://www.london.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Update 01-2012 01-2012 Ward Level Summary Measures of ID 2010.pdf
> 
> 2010 Dataset with 2012 updates.


Cheers for posting that. At the danger of boring those who find discussion about poverty in Brixton so tedious, here's some rather depressing stats from that data:


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 23, 2015)

Actually there's some massive progress in Coldharbour (around early years education etc.) - not saying that there isn't a fundamental barrier that needs to continue to be changed. 

Employment and education indicators are inherently linked and not things that can be improved with a quick fix measure. 

And it's deprivation it measures, not "poverty"


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> Actually there's some massive progress in Coldharbour (around early years education etc.) - not saying that there isn't a fundamental barrier that needs to continue to be changed.
> 
> Employment and education indicators are inherently linked and not things that can be improved with a quick fix measure.
> 
> And it's deprivation it measures, not "poverty"


Sure, but when you're listed as the 12th most deprived for income and number one for the most deprived Employment Scale of any ward in London, poverty is likely to be part of the landscape for more than a few.

For perspective, there are 628 electoral wards in London.


----------



## boohoo (Jan 23, 2015)

I notice Edmonton Green high on both lists. I stayed in a house which had one couple in the front room, a woman and her child in one room upstairs, another woman and her child in another upstairs room, another couple upstairs, a family  (two toddlers and two parents) in one room downstairs and the back room which was a small single had one person.


----------



## boohoo (Jan 23, 2015)

I would like to know where Coldharbour sits on the other measures because this term deprivation used in the report is based on a number of things hence why Coldharbour doesn't hit the overall top 20.

Even with these stats, what is the reality? Where are the voices of the people living these experiences? In the future when historians are trying to understand what happen, will they decide that they have a clear insight into those people defined as deprived?


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

boohoo said:


> I would like to know where Coldharbour sits on the other measures because this term deprivation used in the report is based on a number of things hence why Coldharbour doesn't hit the overall top 20.
> 
> Even with these stats, what is the reality? Where are the voices of the people living these experiences? In the future when historians are trying to understand what happen, will they decide that they have a clear insight into those people defined as deprived?


I know from talking to some of the people on the estate that they are having a really tough time. Money is tight. Some are way behind on the rent. They don't go out much and certainly won't be found in the Shrub & Shutter any time soon.

A small example: a single mum on my floor with two kids couldn't afford to take her kids to Brockwell park fireworks, so her and another Mum chipped in to get some extra-cheap fireworks and they had a small party in the green in front of the block.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 23, 2015)

Winot said:


> Presumably she gets paid by the tour organiser (as does the local business I mentioned upthread). If the tours stop, her income will drop.



Your point about the tours stopping supposes that there isn't a bunch of _schmucks_ out there perfectly willing to pay £70 rather than £3 for a "Foodie tour" of the market.
Unfortunately (unless you're Fox and Squirrel) such _schmucks_ *do* exist.


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 23, 2015)

editor said:


> Sure, but when you're listed as the 12th most deprived for income and number one for the most deprived Employment Scale of any ward in London, poverty is likely to be part of the landscape for more than a few.



Yes, so some degree, but the point of the IMD is to explore and quantify a number of factors which measure social inclusion / exclusion. It's by no means flawless in its approach. 'Poverty' or relative poverty is always a sliding scale according to the current climate. What's defined as poverty now is broader than say in the 1800s.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Your point about the tours stopping supposes that there isn't a bunch of _schmucks_ out there perfectly willing to pay £70 rather than £3 for a "Foodie tour" of the market.
> Unfortunately (unless you're Fox and Squirrel) such _schmucks_ *do* exist.


I'm not sure it's customary for these walks to give money to stores unless they're doing a particular service for them. One Brixton tour I know of definitely doesn't pay stores anything, so the owner has to rely on the tourists buying something as they pass through.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 23, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> It's the usual suspects hunting like a pack of rabid dogs dumping their shit all over the thread. They don't need to disrupt to win, for them it's a sport; they get off on it.
> Poverty is not part of their life and therefore it's absent in their narrative, mention of it irritates them. They don't want it to go away because they feed off the poor. They want the poor to go away but not too far, just out of their neighbourhood, at arms length and chained to serve; for a minimum wage of course. A modest aim of a living wage has them choking on their popcorn.
> 
> It's property not poverty that really makes them foam at the mouth.
> ...



As you say in your first paragraph, they're the usual suspects. We expect their arsery because we know that they're less likely than we are to be affected by problems related to poverty. We expect their arsery because they're _Flaneurs_. We expect their arsery because we know that they're cunts.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 23, 2015)

editor said:


> I'm not sure it's customary for these walks to give money to stores unless they're doing a particular service for them. One Brixton tour I know of definitely doesn't pay stores anything, so the owner has to rely on the tourists buying something as they pass through.



Why am I not surprised?


----------



## Rushy (Jan 23, 2015)

What is certain is that one is a 3 hour affair offering a seven course taster menu, refreshments along the way, organised entertainment and a restaurant-industry-professional guide who has access to various chefs and kitchens for food enthusiasts. The other is about an hour and a half and gives you a free booklet and information from a local history and architecture enthusiast. Nothing wrong with either but comparing the two tours as like for like is a bit like comparing a meal at Upstairs with a Mc Happy Meal on nothing but price because they are both food. It is simply disingenuous.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

Rushy said:


> What is certain is that one is a 3 hour affair offering a seven course taster menu, refreshments along the way, organised entertainment and a restaurant-industry-professional guide who has access to various chefs and kitchens for food enthusiasts. The other is about an hour and a half and gives you a free booklet and information from a local history and architecture enthusiast. Nothing wrong with either but comparing the two tours as like for like is a bit like comparing a meal at Upstairs with a Mc Happy Meal on nothing but price because they are both food. It is simply disingenuous.


I suggested the other was an _alternative_. Both provide tours of the area, although I suspect the Brixton Society one will have a bit more depth of local knowledge when it comes to discussing "the challenges facing the market", given the input of the Market Traders' Federation.

You still haven't explained your curious claim about local organisations being prepared to "exploit the goodwill of unpaid volunteers." Could you offer some evidence to support this damning accusation please? Exactly who is being exploited?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 23, 2015)

editor said:


> At the danger of boring those who find discussion about poverty in Brixton so tedious,


What's tedious is enduring repetitive lectures about what we already know from someone who criticises £70 food tours and people with large kitchens whilst simultaneously posting on other threads about their £400 camera. And before the "disruptive personal dig" algorithm kicks in, perhaps you'd like to review the content of post no. 657.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 23, 2015)

editor said:


> I suggested the other was an _alternative_.


If you are honest for a moment, that's really not the gist / purpose of your rather vicious territorial nimby article though, is it.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

teuchter said:


> What's tedious is enduring repetitive lectures about what we already know from someone who criticises £70 food tours and people with large kitchens whilst simultaneously posting on other threads about their £400 camera. And before the "disruptive personal dig" algorithm kicks in, perhaps you'd like to review the content of post no. 657.


Once again you're attempting to turn the argument into a personal one. Whether I own a camera for work is *utterly irrelevant* to the debate about deprivation in Brixton.

Your constant personal attacks add nothing to the debate and are purely designed to provoke a reaction and disrupt threads. I'm utterly fed up with them. Stop now, please.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

Rushy said:


> If you are honest for a moment, that's really not the gist / purpose of your rather vicious territorial nimby article though, is it.


What does the title say?


----------



## Manter (Jan 23, 2015)

If I may interrupt the fight, the Thameslink is buggered today. Am I my third train trying to get from blackfriars to tulse hill and have just got to Loughborough Junction. It may have been easier to walk....

Reason is variously flooding, signalling problems, knock on effects from issues earlier and a train breakdown. Lots of cancellations, everything else running 30 minutes late min. Avoid....


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

Manter said:


> If I may interrupt the fight, the Thameslink is buggered today. Am I my third train trying to get from blackfriars to tulse hill and have just got to Loughborough Junction. It may have been easier to walk....
> 
> Reason is variously flooding, signalling problems, knock on effects from issues earlier and a train breakdown. Lots of cancellations, everything else running 30 minutes late min. Avoid....


Oh dear. Where does the flooding come from? It didn't rain much today/last night, did it?


----------



## Manter (Jan 23, 2015)

editor said:


> Oh dear. Where does the flooding come from? It didn't rain much today/last night, did it?


Must be a burst pipe..... It was bloody cold! Farringdon apparently, but trains are cancelled from Sutton. It was a bit of a pickle earlier but seems to have got worse as the day has gone on.

The mysteries of trains.....


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

I think comparing the Brixton Society's tour to a McDonald's meal is a bit harsh tbh.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

poptyping said:


> I think comparing the Brixton Society's tour to a McDonald's meal is a bit harsh tbh.


This is what you get for your £3:



> The tour shows how shopping grew from nothing to make Brixton South London’s biggest shopping centre by the 1920s. The development of shopping was one of the key elements in the development of Brixton and a vital part of its history. We explore this development as we walk through the various markets and shopping areas. Feedback from one recent walker “truly fantastic. best walking tour I’ve been on in London. huge thanks”.
> 
> Included in the walk price is a copy of the book Brixton Markets – a heritage walk, which otherwise retails at £2


----------



## teuchter (Jan 23, 2015)

editor said:


> Once again you're attempting to turn the argument into a personal one. Whether I own a camera for work is *utterly irrelevant* to the debate about deprivation in Brixton.


It's exactly as relevant as Ms Blog Lady's island unit kitchen.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 23, 2015)

poptyping said:


> I think comparing the Brixton Society's tour to a McDonald's meal is a bit harsh tbh.


Fair enough - it was not intended to be a judgement on the quality of the tour or it's value. The point being not that one is crap and the other good. But that whilst they are both  meals they are totally different things and to compare them on price without looking at the differences is pointless. 

I've no issue with the society's tours and £3 is a bargain. I reckon they should consider asking people to make their own decision about what the tour was worth at the end. I've been on a couple where they do this and mostly people appeared to be handing over tens and twenties after a couple of hours because they had enjoyed it so much.


----------



## ringo (Jan 23, 2015)

Manter said:


> If I may interrupt the fight, the Thameslink is buggered today. Am I my third train trying to get from blackfriars to tulse hill and have just got to Loughborough Junction. It may have been easier to walk....
> 
> Reason is variously flooding, signalling problems, knock on effects from issues earlier and a train breakdown. Lots of cancellations, everything else running 30 minutes late min. Avoid....



Thanks for the heads up. My train to Farringdon this morning was on time, possibly for the first time this year, and I even got a seat from Elephant & Arsehole. Looks like it's the tube home then.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 23, 2015)

From another forum:


> I've just passed through the Clerkenwell Widened Lines tunnel (Thameslink) and we absolutely crawled. The tunnel was fully lit up, and the tracks were underwater. You couldn't see them.


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## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

£70 sounds reasonable for a hand crafted meal, just saying....


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 23, 2015)

23 pages - 23rd of the month. Friday 

After 4 x 6am-7pm days, I, my friends, am off on the piss


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## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> £70 sounds reasonable for a hand crafted meal, just saying....



Have you ever read anything about it? #justsaying ugh


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

Here's my experiences from the Hoot last night. 
A disappointing night in Hootananny, Effra Road, Brixton


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## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

I remember i think that this pub was called the george canning? did i see a band called Jabba there in the late 70s, my memory is shot!
skf


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> I remember i think that this pub was called the george canning? did i see a band called Jabba there in the late 70s, my memory is shot!
> skf


Yep. George Canning, then the Hobgoblin, and now Hootananny. It's certainly gone through some changes.






http://www.urban75.org/brixton/bars/hobgoblin-farewell.html


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## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

Fucking hell, used to go there when the guvnor was a VERY big ex wrestler, it was around the time of the new cross arson fire, so maybe late 70s early 80s
skf


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## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

poptyping  i will flag up my sarcasm just for you!
skf


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> poptyping  i will flag up my sarcasm just for you!
> skf



How is anyone supposed to get your sarcasm when there are no smiley faces in your post.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 23, 2015)

Not many Burn's night special's left in Stockwell Lidl, just the one black watch tartan kilt left - size 34-36. Lots of Haggis for 99p.  No square sausage.

They have Westons cloudy scumpy - 2l glass flaggon for £3.99 too


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 23, 2015)

poptyping said:


> How is anyone supposed to get your sarcasm when there are no smiley faces in your post.


  Some of us are too old for smilie icons.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Not many Burn's night special's left in Stockwell Lidl, just the one black watch tartan kilt left - size 34-36. Lots of Haggis for 99p.  No square sausage.
> 
> They have Westons cloudy scumpy - 2l glass flaggon for £3.99 too


I was just there and didnae notice anything.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 23, 2015)

editor said:


> I was just there and didnae notice anything.


It was about 1.30pm when I was there so maybe gone now? Haggis was in the fridge corner near salmon and ham. Scrumpy was hidden amongst special offers, not in booze isle.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)




----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


>



You're learning fast


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## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

Please tell me that the flag on brixton town hall is NOT at half mast concerning the Saudi  fuckhead, i just heard something on the news?
skf


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## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

A little photo feature from my wanderings last night: A Thursday night out in Brixton town, Effra Social, Windrush Square and the Prince Albert


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

No it's for all the people of colour locked up in Brixton nick.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

how do i post a picture/photo? have tried upload file?
skf


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## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

Colour ! do you mean black? is this political  correctness gone mad?
skf


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## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

I like this new honest and moody number from local punky singer/songwriter Misty Miller:


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## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

I usually shit on the street when i am in hampstead 
skf


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## CH1 (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> Fucking hell, used to go there when the guvnor was a VERY big ex wrestler, it was around the time of the new cross arson fire, so maybe late 70s early 80s
> skf


I've got an old video of Kenny Everett "wrestling" him.
Not on Youtube - maybe I should try and put it up?

PS some guy was showing Charlie Hebdo round in the Beehive on Tuesday. Was that you?


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

*WILL THE METRIC SYSTEM KILL BRITISH JUSTICE?*
The terror level was raised to beige today after MI5 said that they certainly had vague yet specific intelligence about a probable certain threat that might or might not occur or not occur under certain circumstances on British soil or abroad perhaps unless another thing that might be a threat if it were to happen which it might or might not but it definitely might. 

The terror plot probably involved coloureds who rumours have emerged have been involved in plotting the overthrow both of the British state and our way of life since 1978. 

Lala from the teletubbies speaking from a hotel in Barbados said, "I blame all of this on stealth taxes and permissive education in the 1960s.".


----------



## CH1 (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> *WILL THE METRIC SYSTEM KILL BRITISH JUSTICE?*
> The terror level was raised to beige today after MI5 said that they certainly had vague yet specific intelligence about a probable certain threat that might or might not occur or not occur under certain circumstances on British soil or abroad perhaps unless another thing that might be a threat if it were to happen which it might or might not but it definitely might.
> 
> The terror plot probably involved coloureds who rumours have emerged have been involved in plotting the overthrow both of the British state and our way of life since 1978.
> ...


Yeah well if they approve Ttip you can set your mind at ease over metric measurements.


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## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

Ttip ?
skf


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## CH1 (Jan 23, 2015)

That trade agreement which means you can't discriminate against Americans: Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership


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## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

can i still discriminate against "coloured people"?
skf


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> can i still discriminate against "coloured people"?
> skf



lol.  it's funny because they're coloured.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

everybody is coloured! its just that some people are more coloured than other people
skf


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## BigMoaner (Jan 23, 2015)

t


teuchter said:


> What's tedious is enduring repetitive lectures about what we already know from someone who criticises £70 food tours and people with large kitchens whilst simultaneously posting on other threads about their £400 camera. And before the "disruptive personal dig" algorithm kicks in, perhaps you'd like to review the content of post no. 657.


it's all inter-linked, no? i would think this website has done more than most to indirectly drive up house prices, and attract swanky businesses. sling "brixton" into google and people will be attracted by the good shit that is going on advertised on this site.


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## Mr Retro (Jan 23, 2015)

I'm in the Ten Bells in whitechapel waiting for the missus who works hereabouts to show up. It's a pile of wank


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## leanderman (Jan 23, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I'm in the Ten Bells in whitechapel waiting for the missus who works hereabouts to show up. It's a pile of wank



Used to live near it - was OK until done up.


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## Mr Retro (Jan 23, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Used to live near it - was OK until done up.


I remember it as a great pub. Another one bites the dust. It needs Brian from the Canterbury to question, in his unique way, some of the sartorial choices


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## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

BigMoaner said:


> it's all inter-linked, no? i would think this website has done more than most to indirectly drive up house prices, and attract swanky businesses. sling "brixton" into google and people will be attracted by the good shit that is going on advertised on this site.


Funny thing is I used to regularly get emails from people complaining that my photos were showing Brixton off in a "bad light" or "focusing on the bad stuff."

Maybe that's what drove all those house prices up. Still, if you want to blame me, you go right ahead.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I remember it as a great pub. Another one bites the dust. It needs Brian from the Canterbury to question, in his unique way, some of the sartorial choices



the beer was always good but that was about 8 years ago
skf


----------



## colacubes (Jan 23, 2015)

New guest beer in the Albert


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

Shame it's by those sexist, cod-punk posturin' capitalist pigdogs Brewdog.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jan 23, 2015)

colacubes said:


> New guest beer in the Albert



.........anyone know what inspired them to use Brixton in the name...........
their florid beer blurb gives no clues

_"The bastard lovechild of the industrial revolution; an 18th Century London original. Updated.

This dark handsome brute has flavour and then some. This is beer back ordered. Beer like it was. Beer like it should be. Beer like it will be.

Immerse yourself in initial chocolate and coffee hit as the encapsulating roastiness takes hold. This renaissance beer is oak aged for complexity which adds rich vanilla into the mix before the dark fruits drill your senses into an orgy of untold pleasures.

Brixton Porter is a dark liquid voyage of discovery. A seafaring dog with beguiling tales to tell.

Surrender to the dark side"_


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> Ttip ?
> skf





skf said:


> can i still discriminate against "coloured people"?
> skf


I think you will find plenty of other threads for your education.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> Colour ! do you mean black? is this political  correctness gone mad?
> skf



Who is this ridiculous person anyway.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 23, 2015)

colacubes said:


> New guest beer in the Albert


Q1 is it drinkable?
Q2 Will I need a loan to get drunk on it?


----------



## passivejoe (Jan 23, 2015)

editor said:


> Once again you're attempting to turn the argument into a personal one. Whether I own a camera for work is *utterly irrelevant* to the debate about deprivation in Brixton.
> 
> Your constant personal attacks add nothing to the debate and are purely designed to provoke a reaction and disrupt threads. I'm utterly fed up with them. Stop now, please.



And yet your article is little more than a personal attack... designed to provoke a reaction. Otherwise why mention the kitchen? Its not in the least bit relevant to her guided tour.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 23, 2015)

editor said:


> Shame it's by those sexist, cod-punk posturin' capitalist pigdogs Brewdog.





cuppa tee said:


> .........anyone know what inspired them to use Brixton in the name...........
> their florid beer blurb gives no clues
> 
> _"The bastard lovechild of the industrial revolution; an 18th Century London original. Updated.
> ...


Is it odd to relate the industrial revolution to '_orgy of untold pleasures'? _ 
I associate it more with exploitation, child labour, 12 hour work days_, _terrible urban overcrowding and my ancestors working down tin mines. 
and Brixton with _'... A seafaring dog_'   Weird.  I like porter but this florid sales pitch is putting me off it already.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

I haven't heard the word "coloured" used for black people since the 60s! your not from round this way are you?
skf


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 23, 2015)

Oh dear.


skf said:


> how do i post a picture/photo? have tried upload file?
> skf


probably best if you don't.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> I haven't heard the word "coloured" used for black people since the 60s! your not from round this way are you?
> skf



Read my post again. I didn't use the word coloured.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 23, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> .........anyone know what inspired them to use Brixton in the name...........
> their florid beer blurb gives no clues



Pretty sure I read some time back that it was named in reference to their planned opening on CHL, and then decided to keep the name.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

"people of colour"  James brown did not sing "Say it loud i am a person of colour"  If you are going to post a sarcastic, ironic post please include the appropriate smiley.
thank you
skf


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

It's not sarcastic or ironic. How's about piss off, you utter nincompoop.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> "people of colour"  James brown did not sing "Say it loud i am a person of colour"  If you are going to post a sarcastic, ironic post please include the appropriate smiley.
> thank you
> skf


Cannot beleive there is a person my age alive who has not heard the phrase. There are other threads for your educational needs.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

I have heard the phrase but 40 years ago! that was when the word "black" was considered an insult.  No need for agression
skf


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 23, 2015)

teuchter said:


> What's tedious is enduring repetitive lectures about what we already know from someone who criticises £70 food tours and people with large kitchens whilst simultaneously posting on other threads about their £400 camera. And before the "disruptive personal dig" algorithm kicks in, perhaps you'd like to review the content of post no. 657.



His camera is a professional tool, from which he derives a living. Using it as a comparator for spending £70 of disposal income on a gastro-tour is at best disingenuous, at worst a display of a degree of ignorance that would make a village idiot blush.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

passivejoe said:


> And yet your article is little more than a personal attack... designed to provoke a reaction. Otherwise why mention the kitchen? Its not in the least bit relevant to her guided tour.


I think the background of the people doing the tour _is_ an important to the story, and the immense kitchen is described at the very top of her business web page. It was the first thing I came across when I looked her up. She clearly thinks it's an important detail to mention, and I think it is a relevant detail to include in the article. You are free to disagree, of course.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 23, 2015)

Manter said:


> If I may interrupt the fight, the Thameslink is buggered today. Am I my third train trying to get from blackfriars to tulse hill and have just got to Loughborough Junction. It may have been easier to walk....
> 
> Reason is variously flooding, signalling problems, knock on effects from issues earlier and a train breakdown. Lots of cancellations, everything else running 30 minutes late min. Avoid....



And all that on top of the fact that Govia couldn't organise a circle jerk in a male boarding school, and still don't have enough drivers to cover all their obligation 100%.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

I took this photo last night and added it to a Buzz piece, but on second glance think it deserves a bigger version. So here it is.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> £70 sounds reasonable for a hand crafted meal, just saying....


"Hand crafted meal"? Aren't all meals "hand crafted" at the final stages?
"Here's your Greggs bap with a hand-sliced cheese,onion and tomato filling".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> Colour ! do you mean black? is this political  correctness gone mad?
> skf



Nah, more that it's been the fad for a few years in the States for black people to be referred to as "people of colour" because it's supposedly less objectifying.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

I think it was Enoch Powell who coined the phrase "coloured people"  Poptyping if you know any black people ask them if they like to be called "people of colour" maybe you will get educated
skf


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

I'm a person of colour myself you fuck knuckle.


----------



## stethoscope (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> I think it was Enoch Powell who coined the phrase "coloured people"  Poptyping if you know any black people ask them if they like to be called "people of colour" maybe you will get educated
> skf



Not 'coloured people', 'people of colour'. FFS, there's a difference.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

An aggressive one, and what particular colour are you?
skf


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

stethoscope you are being pedantic
skf


----------



## stethoscope (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> stethoscope you are being pedantic
> skf



I'm not at all, why not go and educate yourself about it.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=people+of+colour


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> I think it was Enoch Powell who coined the phrase "coloured people"  Poptyping if you know any black people ask them if they like to be called "people of colour" maybe you will get educated
> skf



Original term came from the US, as in "the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People" (NAACP) way back in the '20s or '30s.


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> stethoscope you are being pedantic
> skf


Dude: before you dig yourself into an even bigger hole, please educate yourself: 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_color
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/6132672.stm


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> An aggressive one, and what particular colour are you?
> skf



Seriously?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 23, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> Not 'coloured people', 'people of colour'. FFS, there's a difference.



PoC has a "worthy"/politically-correct air, mostly because it was appropriated from US academe for use by our intsersectionalist friends. It's only been in common usage here for a decade at most.
"Coloured people",however - as far back as I can recall (so the '60s), was always taken as denigration by my non-white mates. They (whether they were from the African continent or "the West Indies", from "the subcontinent" or "the far east") all described themselves as "black".


----------



## CH1 (Jan 23, 2015)

cuppa tee said:


> .........anyone know what inspired them to use Brixton in the name...........
> their florid beer blurb gives no clues
> _"The bastard lovechild of the industrial revolution; etc etc"_





friendofdorothy said:


> Q1 is it drinkable?
> Q2 Will I need a loan to get drunk on it?


Ratebeer quote this description:

"A recipe we originally devised to celebrate opening BrewDog Brixton in the city that gave birth to the Porter style. Unfortunately the deal for the site fell through at the last minute, but we still wanted to make the beer. Brixton Porter is a delightfully decadent yet eminently drinkable dark beer. 
Malts – Extra pale, Dark crystal, Roast barley, black 
Hops – Victoria’s Secret, Bramling Cross, Challenger"

They rate the bottled version at 89/100 which is pretty good.

I was wondering whether to sample it myself - maybe in my case best done on at a quiet time. After the "Tale of Two Cities" meeting on Monday evening sounds a likely bet.

I'm sure if it is a guest beer in the Albert you're talking £4.80 or even more per pint.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

James Brown along with many other Black people reclaimed the word in the late 60s.  So are we to follow the americans in our use of language?, i haven.t seen or heard the expression  "people of colour" used for 40 years in this country, except middle class, social work wankers.
I was born in herne hill in 1950, went to william penn school and all my mates prefer to be called black, i will tell them they are wrong ok?
skf


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> James Brown along with many other Black people reclaimed the word in the late 60s.  So are we to follow the americans in our use of language?, i haven.t seen or heard the expression  "people of colour" used for 40 years in this country, except middle class, social work wankers.
> I was born in herne hill in 1950, went to william penn school and all my mates prefer to be called black, i will tell them they are wrong ok?
> skf



You seem to be struggling with the English language.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

Thats william penn school for you!
skf


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

Where did I say it was wrong for people to self identify as black? That's right I didn't. So why are you telling me it's wrong to describe myself as a PoC. Why are you trying to police the way PoC describe themselves.

Go away.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

you didn't,  you are allowing others to choose what expressions you use, in this case americans, think for yourself!!!
skf


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> "people of colour"  James brown did not sing "Say it loud i am a person of colour"
> skf



But he did sing 'I got ants in my pants and I need to dance'

I don't think he really had ants in his pants though.


----------



## stethoscope (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> you didn't,  you are allowing others to choose what expressions you use, in this case americans, think for yourself!!!
> skf



Hole. Digging.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

I will need a "spade" to dig my hole
skf


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> you didn't,  you are allowing others to choose what expressions you use, in this case americans, think for yourself!!!
> skf



Or simply making a personal choice in describing oneself?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 23, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Ratebeer quote this description:
> 
> "A recipe we originally devised to celebrate opening BrewDog Brixton in the city that gave birth to the Porter style. Unfortunately the deal for the site fell through at the last minute, but we still wanted to make the beer. Brixton Porter is a delightfully decadent yet eminently drinkable dark beer.
> Malts – Extra pale, Dark crystal, Roast barley, black
> ...


£4.80 - ouch!
'Tale of two cities' meeting sounds interesting. Will it be the best of times or the worst of times?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> I will need a "spade" to dig my hole
> skf



Really?!?


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

Someone said earlier it was a term coined in the states, so are we  to be given a set of 'expressions" and get to choose one to describe ourself.  I would love to have been at the meeting where they came up with "people of colour"
skf
gnight


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> Someone said earlier it was a term coined in the states, so are we  to be given a set of 'expressions" and get to choose one to describe ourself.  I would love to have been at the meeting where they came up with "people of colour"
> skf
> gnight



You can choose to describe yourself as you like. Doesn't matter the origin of the term or word. No one is forcing poptyping to adopt any description...that's poptyping's choice. Who are you to say it's wrong or right?


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> I will need a "spade" to dig my hole
> skf



There's no excuse for using racial slurs. Fuck off.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

you just don't get sarcasm do you?


----------



## Crispy (Jan 23, 2015)

you don't get to choose how people interpret your words


----------



## CH1 (Jan 23, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> £4.80 - ouch!
> 'Tale of two cities' meeting sounds interesting. Will it be the best of times or the worst of times?


This one (Gramsci also posted in another thread)


I imagine that your question was largely addressed in the two recent BBC2 documentaries "The Super Rich and Us".

It all reminds me of the biblical quote (Matthew 13:12)
_For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
_
Talking of which I would love Rt Rev Dr John Sentamu (formerly priest of Holy Trinity, Trinity Rise Herne Hill) to be on the panel - then he could explain that one!


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

We people who are darker than blue
Are we gonna stand around this town
And let what others say come true?
We're just good for nothing they all figure

A boyish, grown up, shiftless jigger
Now we can't hardly stand for that
Or is that really where it's at?
We people who are darker than blue

This ain't no time for segregatin'
I'm talking 'bout brown and yellow two
High yellow girl, can't you tell
You're just the surface of our dark deep well

If your mind could really see
You'd know your color the same as me
Pardon me, brother, as you stand in your glory
I know you won't mind if I tell the whole story

Get yourself together, learn to know your side
Shall we commit our own genocide
Before you check out your mind?

I know we've all got problems
That's why I'm here to say
Keep peace with me and I with you
Let me love in my own way

Now I know we have great respect
For the sister, and mother it's even better yet
But there's the joker in the street

Loving one brother and killing the other
When the time comes and we are really free
There'll be no brothers left you see

We people who are darker than blue
Don't let us hang around this town
And let what others say come true

We're just good for nothing they all figure
A boyish, grown up, shiftless jigger
Now we can't hardly stand for that
Or is that really where it's at?

Pardon me, brother, while you stand in your glory
I know you won't mind if I tell the whole story
Pardon me, brother, I know we've come a long, long way
But let us not be so satisfied for tomorrow can be an
An even brighter day





Read more: Curtis Mayfield - We The People Who Are Darker Than Blue Lyrics | MetroLyrics


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> you just don't get sarcasm do you?



I don't give a shit how many black friends you've got. Or who you randomly quote. You don't get to use racial slurs without being called out on it.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 23, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Dexter Deadwood But where are the poor going? There was talk of people being moved to other cities and towns. I wonder what that impact is . As Manter said will these people have access to opportunity or will it create new pockets of poverty in other cities leaving London to the rich.



I was chatting to someone today who had been moved from Myatts Fields To Crystal Palace area when the new development at Myatts Fields was started. He will not be going back.

Afro Carribean people I know who grew up in Stokwell/ Brixton are in Croydon and Thornthan Heath.

One Black British person I know is going to Africa with her mother ( who was born in Africa). As she says London is not great place to live anymore. Wages and conditions of work have got worse and living costs have increased more than wages. She grew up in London.

It not a matter of opportunities it is a matter of work not being rewarded. Middle England might be doing ok but for working class living standards have dropped.

Talk of opportunities is a bit of a distraction from the issue of increasing inequality. Which is in other words how the wealth is distributed. Opportunities for what? My friend liked her job. As she said when she started it pay and conditions were ok. She had enough to get by and have a life. Not now.


----------



## T & P (Jan 23, 2015)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 23, 2015)

skf said:


> I will need a "spade" to dig my hole
> skf


No, look, you may think you're making some sort of clever point here but you are being a dick and pissing people off. Please do not be a dick or piss people off.


----------



## skf (Jan 23, 2015)

Everybody's Talking
About This Country's State
We Get A New Power Every Hour
Just About In Every Christian Fate
We're Killing Up Our Leaders
It Don't Matter None
Black Or White
And We All Know It's Wrong
And We're Gonna Fight To Make It Right

And Mighty, Mighty Spade And Whitey
Your Black And White Power
Is Gonna Be A Crumbling Tower
And We Who Stand Divided
So God Damn Undecided
Give This Some Thought
In Stupidness We've All Been Caught
There Really Ain't No Difference
If You're Cut You're Gonna Bleed
Might I Get A Little Bit Deeper
Human Life Is From The Semen Seed

Now I'm Gonna Say It Loud
I'm Just As Proud As The Brothers Too
And Just Like The Rest
I Don't Want No Mess About
Who's Taking Who
Repeat


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 23, 2015)

k


----------



## T & P (Jan 23, 2015)

Night Firky.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 23, 2015)

Thank fuck for that.


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 23, 2015)

I have enjoyed the fact that a troll has brought even a vague resemblance of solidarity (albeit briefly) to this place. Apologies for stirring on here this week - work stress generates U75 procrastination. Enjoy the sunshine tomorrow, and belated kudos to this mornings lido swimmers.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 23, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> I was chatting to someone today who had been moved from Myatts Fields To Crystal Palace area when the new development at Myatts Fields was started. He will not be going back.
> 
> Afro Carribean people I know who grew up in Stokwell/ Brixton are in Croydon and Thornthan Heath.


Yesterday's Standard said that Wandsworth were using Lambeth properties - along with Birmingham, Kingston, Sutton, Reigate, Banstead, Merton, Croydon, and High Wycombe in order to house their homeless.

Unfortunately I cannot post the link as the Evening Standard has now changed to this e-paper system where you have to read through the whole paper in an onine e-edition. 

Here is a jpeg:


----------



## ricbake (Jan 23, 2015)

http://lambeth.gov.uk/elections-and-council/finance-and-payments/financial-information-guide 

Lambeth paid £1,345,335.91 to 26 providers of Bed and breakfast during the month of December 2014


----------



## CH1 (Jan 24, 2015)

ricbake said:


> http://lambeth.gov.uk/elections-and-council/finance-and-payments/financial-information-guide
> 
> Lambeth paid £1,345,335.91 to 26 providers of Bed and breakfast during the month of December 2014


Since you've posted such detailed yet incomprehensible information, what do you think the £545,984 of miscellaneous expenses to La Retraite girls Roman Catholic school in Thornton Ward in December was for?


----------



## ricbake (Jan 24, 2015)

education!


----------



## Manter (Jan 24, 2015)

I went out in Brixton tonight for the first time in about 2.5 years. Wine parlour (2 bottles of house white, bread and oil, incredibly charming and flirtatious waiter, possibly Dutch, who I would have pounced on 1 child, and 10years ago); wahaca (incredibly charming hostess and waitress, good food, good wine, and a Mexican crickets special - with attendant blurb about sustainable sources of protein. Interesting, not unpleasant, but not particularly tasty); Kaff (distinctly average mojito served in a jam jar, heaving with hipsters. Interesting conversation with a chap in a beard and bun about where you earn enough money to live/party in Brixton if your general hipsterness means you can't actually work anywhere lucrative). 

Lovely time, generally. Noticed it's heaving compared to when I last went out regularly- the price of parenthood- but the atmosphere was similar. Lots of people from all sorts of backgrounds and places either getting on or amiably ignoring each other.

That said I did leave at midnight so not sure if it gets lairy later.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 24, 2015)

ricbake said:


> education!


Come on! I thought it might be that Lambeth pay the monthly wage bill or something like that.
Is that link some sort of statutory requirement, or FOI or what?


----------



## Manter (Jan 24, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> Afro Carribean people I know who grew up in Stokwell/ Brixton are in Croydon and Thornthan Heath.
> .


Both of my neighbours were Afro Caribbean. Both now live in Croydon- but both still own their houses in Brixton and are renting them. One side renovated the whole thing and has 'young professionals' in it; the other side didn't and rents to 'hipsters'.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 24, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Even with these stats, what is the reality? Where are the voices of the people living these experiences? In the future when historians are trying to understand what happen, will they decide that they have a clear insight into those people defined as deprived?



Good question.

Mass Observation did this.

The voice of a lot of people are not recorded. Unless its in government documents, court records etc.

Even with Mass Observation is was observing from outside.

I had a long chat today with someone this morning who had lived in or around Brixton for life. Realise now he had told me a lot about the history of living on one of the estates. On my way back tonight stopped in a cafe/ bakery I use and got chatting to a couple of people there complaining about being hounded by the social and London being for the rich now.

What I am saying is that there is a whole wealth of info out there in brief chats to people but its not recorded.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 24, 2015)

Manter said:


> Both of my neighbours were Afro Caribbean. Both now live in Croydon- but both still own their houses in Brixton and are renting them. One side renovated the whole thing and has 'young professionals' in it; the other side didn't and rents to 'hipsters'.



There are some who bought there houses years ago and are now cashing in. 

But there are a lot of Black British who grew up in Brixton and moved south as Brixton became to costly.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 24, 2015)

Put this on the Noticeboard. Put up here as well. All welcome:


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2015)

Manter said:


> I went out in Brixton tonight for the first time in about 2.5 years. Wine parlour (2 bottles of house white, bread and oil, incredibly charming and flirtatious waiter, possibly Dutch, who I would have pounced on 1 child, and 10years ago); wahaca (incredibly charming hostess and waitress, good food, good wine, and a Mexican crickets special - with attendant blurb about sustainable sources of protein. Interesting, not unpleasant, but not particularly tasty); Kaff (distinctly average mojito served in a jam jar, heaving with hipsters. Interesting conversation with a chap in a beard and bun about where you earn enough money to live/party in Brixton if your general hipsterness means you can't actually work anywhere lucrative).
> 
> Lovely time, generally. Noticed it's heaving compared to when I last went out regularly- the price of parenthood- but the atmosphere was similar. Lots of people from all sorts of backgrounds and places either getting on or amiably ignoring each other.
> 
> That said I did leave at midnight so not sure if it gets lairy later.


I was at the Albert DJing. It was packed with an enthusiastic and mixed crowd.


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 24, 2015)

blame the game, not the players.


----------



## colacubes (Jan 24, 2015)

Cheers for that Alex Ferguson


----------



## boohoo (Jan 24, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> It not a matter of opportunities it is a matter of work not being rewarded. Middle England might be doing ok but for working class living standards have dropped.
> 
> Talk of opportunities is a bit of a distraction from the issue of increasing inequality. Which is in other words how the wealth is distributed. Opportunities for what? My friend liked her job. As she said when she started it pay and conditions were ok. She had enough to get by and have a life. Not now.



Opportunity is important though. I did detached youth work in Bootle back in the 90s and there was a huge gulf between opportunity there and opportunity in London which led to very limited expectations. 

 I do agree that wages have stayed stagnant whilst the cost of living in London has rocketed and that rising inequality is a huge issue. But the answers like more social housing and rent caps are not happening. What do we do?


----------



## boohoo (Jan 24, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> Good question.
> 
> Mass Observation did this.
> 
> ...



There is a lot of information from local people and it would be great to do a project recording these stories. My interviews with muralists working in London in the 1980s had lots of stories about Lambeth local estates.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 24, 2015)

Sorry Manter . All I have managed to take home from your post is blah blah blah ... last night in Brixton I ate crickets ... blah blah blah. What is that all about?!! Oh, and the perving bit.


----------



## Manter (Jan 24, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Sorry Manter . All I have managed to take home from your post is blah blah blah ... last night in Brixton I ate crickets ... blah blah blah. What is that all about?!! Oh, and the perving bit.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 24, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> I was chatting to someone today who had been moved from Myatts Fields To Crystal Palace area when the new development at Myatts Fields was started. He will not be going back.



Lambeth say 20% of tenants have chosen not to move back to Myatts Field North. Also 20% of leaseholders are not moving back. Considering the Heygate experience in Southwark and the terms that Cressingham Gardens were offered, if theirs were similar, don't know if they feel they had a choice...


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 24, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Opportunity is important though. I did detached youth work in Bootle back in the 90s and there was a huge gulf between opportunity there and opportunity in London which led to very limited expectations.
> 
> *I do agree that wages have stayed stagnant whilst the cost of living in London has rocketed *and that rising inequality is a huge issue. But the answers like more social housing and rent caps are not happening. What do we do?



For working class people, wages haven't stayed stagnant, in real terms they have fallen between 10-12% over the last decade. Worse than that, the poorest paid have not had a real terms pay rise since the late 1970's; that's a generation of people written off.

School children from Baltimore to Brixton know they have been dumped in the lowest stream in this brave new world of market forces, they are set up to fail while resources are funneled to the children of wealthier parents who have usually bought their way into a school catchment area.

There can be no talk of opportunity when hope has left the building.


----------



## boohoo (Jan 24, 2015)

ricbake said:


> Lambeth say 20% of tenants have chosen not to move back to Myatts Field North. Also 20% of leaseholders are not moving back. Considering the Heygate experience in Southwark and the terms that Cressingham Gardens were offered, if theirs were similar, don't know if they feel they had a choice...



If you have a family and you have no choice but to move away then it would be disruptive to move back unless you have found a way to keep your children at the same schools during your time of exile.

I can't think about a primary school for my daughter because it is likely we will have to move in that time due to further rent increases. Modern living.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 24, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> His camera is a professional tool, from which he derives a living. Using it as a comparator for spending £70 of disposal income on a gastro-tour is at best disingenuous, at worst a display of a degree of ignorance that would make a village idiot blush.


Except that the comparator is the island kitchen, which she no doubt would also say is "for work" given that she is a food writer. But what is the relevance of her kitchen to the article, which pretends to be about offering an idea for an alternative tour of Brixton? Is being judgemental about an individual necessary?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 24, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Except that the comparator is the island kitchen, which she no doubt would also say is "for work" given that she is a food writer. But what is the relevance of her kitchen to the article, which pretends to be about offering an idea for an alternative tour of Brixton? Is being judgemental about an individual necessary?



Shouldn't you ask yourself that same question before you attack the ed?
Or are you as hypocritical as you appear?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 24, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Shouldn't you ask yourself that same question before you attack the ed?
> Or are you as hypocritical as you appear?


I'm not attacking the ed for owning an expensive camera. That would be hypocritical because i also own all sorts of things that many people in Brixton couldn't afford. My criticism is not about his camera ownership but his judgemental attitude to others based on partial information, having a go at them because of their apparent affluence whilst pretending to make some political point about a wider issue. If he wants to judge people in that way then he should be prepared to get as good as he gives out.


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2015)

This is not a 'Discuss The Editor' forum. Nor is it one where it is appropriate to discuss the personal ownership of camera for work. This is thread to read and post up about Brixton news. Let's keep it that way please.


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2015)

And in Brixton news: 
Brixton Topcats add two new players to help boost chances in Women’s British Basketball League


----------



## CH1 (Jan 24, 2015)

Odd story about Oyster skimming in  Brixton Blog. http://www.brixtonblog.com/krishen-...0-stolen-from-brixton-oyster-card-users/27192
Not sure how the corupt newsagent is supposed to repay his customers if he only did it on unregistered cards - looks like it's actually TFL who will benefit.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 24, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Odd story about Oyster skimming in  Brixton Blog. <snip>


At least that newsagent won't be allowed to have an Oyster top-up machine in his shop from now on, that's going to affect footfall as his shop's convenient for where several bus routes intersect.  

Robbing people who can hardly spare the money (even for necessities) too.


----------



## EastEnder (Jan 24, 2015)

Is there anywhere in Brixton that sells plants? My last one died ages ago & my flat feels like it needs a bit of greenery.


----------



## boohoo (Jan 24, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> Is there anywhere in Brixton that sells plants? My last one died ages ago & my flat feels like it needs a bit of greenery.


 isn't there a place in the village?


----------



## Rushy (Jan 24, 2015)

Brixton is on remarkably good form today in the cold sunshine.

Nice to bump into Gramsci (also on good form!)


----------



## Ms T (Jan 24, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> Is there anywhere in Brixton that sells plants? My last one died ages ago & my flat feels like it needs a bit of greenery.


The new flower lady on the corner of Pope's Rd. Or M&S.


----------



## han (Jan 24, 2015)

leanderman said:


> The Tulse Hill Hotel was very busy. Tried the Crown on Brixton Hill too. Dangerously cheap. Two proper pints for £4.30! Two double Hendricks and Fentimans for £7.10!!


The Crown is my favourite pub in the area these days. The prices are fantastic, food pretty damn good for your bog standard non-gastro pub grub. And a lovely diverse local crowd, not a tweed-wearing hipster in sight.


----------



## EastEnder (Jan 24, 2015)

boohoo said:


> isn't there a place in the village?


The "village" is full of scary young people with silly haircuts. I daren't go in there


----------



## boohoo (Jan 24, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> The "village" is full of scary young people with silly haircuts. I daren't go in there



you were once a young person with  a silly haircut.  You'll be fine.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 24, 2015)

ricbake said:


> http://lambeth.gov.uk/elections-and-council/finance-and-payments/financial-information-guide
> 
> Lambeth paid £1,345,335.91 to 26 providers of Bed and breakfast during the month of December 2014


 for a month? that is scary - could build/buy a lots of homes for that sort of money. Madness.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 24, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> The "village" is full of scary young people with silly haircuts. I daren't go in there


Go on!  just to remind them how they might end up.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 24, 2015)

Have just been for a quick drink in the Regent - I've never so many young men with beards in one room.


----------



## Dan U (Jan 24, 2015)

Had a pint with Badgers earlier in the beehive. It never changes


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 24, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Have just been for a quick drink in the Regent - I've never so many young men with beards in one room.


soon it's going to the case that those without beards are the REAL hipsters. 

bit like that now with tats. amazing and astounding when someone hasn't got one.


----------



## boohoo (Jan 24, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> for a month? that is scary - could build/buy a lots of homes for that sort of money. Madness.



It is about approx £250 a room per week.  If we use the figure mentioned, it only provides 1345 rooms


----------



## editor (Jan 24, 2015)

Curious kind of name for a shop:


----------



## Manter (Jan 24, 2015)

editor said:


> Curious kind of name for a shop:
> 
> View attachment 66820


Pun on risqué given their stock, would be my guess


----------



## BigMoaner (Jan 24, 2015)

if the high street truly declines in this country, this country will suffer massively.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 24, 2015)

boohoo said:


> isn't there a place in the village?



There was they have gone last time I looked.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 24, 2015)

EastEnder said:


> Is there anywhere in Brixton that sells plants? My last one died ages ago & my flat feels like it needs a bit of greenery.



The Farmers Market on Sundays outside the Brixton Rec sometimes has stall selling plants.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 24, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> The Farmers Market on Sundays outside the Brixton Rec sometimes has stall selling plants.


It also has a stall selling honey. Needful of a pot last week I picked one up and was asked for £14.50 in exchange for it. Is the lid made of gold I enquired?

No, I was told, however the honey does have anti-viral, anti-bacterial, and anti-fungal properties, it helps your digestion, is an antioxidant, it strengthens your immune system, eliminates allergies, and even helps cuts and cures infections.

No it fucking doesn't, I replied as I returned the pot to its plywood shelf and and went about my business.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 25, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> It also has a stall selling honey. Needful of a pot last week I picked one up and was asked for £14.50 in exchange for it. Is the lid made of gold I enquired?
> 
> No, I was told, however the honey does have anti-viral, anti-bacterial, and anti-fungal properties, it helps your digestion, is an antioxidant, it strengthens your immune system, eliminates allergies, and even helps cuts and cures infections.
> 
> No it fucking doesn't, I replied as I returned the pot to its plywood shelf and and went about my business.


I think honey has been proven to have some of those affects.
and the £14.50 stuff may well have been made by named artisan bees, and loving hand battled by organic farmers...

But honey can be bought in other establishments for as little 99p.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 25, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> It also has a stall selling honey. Needful of a pot last week I picked one up and was asked for £14.50 in exchange for it. Is the lid made of gold I enquired?
> 
> No, I was told, however the honey does have anti-viral, anti-bacterial, and anti-fungal properties, it helps your digestion, is an antioxidant, it strengthens your immune system, eliminates allergies, and even helps cuts and cures infections.
> 
> No it fucking doesn't, I replied as I returned the pot to its plywood shelf and and went about my business.





friendofdorothy said:


> I think honey has been proven to have some of those affects.
> and the £14.50 stuff may well have been made by named artisan bees, and loving hand battled by organic farmers...


I think it must be this Manuka Honey. Seems to cure a lot of things. I have friend who is an osteopath and swears by it.

He mocks my credulous attitude to religion - but I must admit I am rather skeptical about health foods and the like - even New Zealand honey.


----------



## peterkro (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I think it must be this Manuka Honey. Seems to cure a lot of things. I have friend who is an osteopath and swears by it.
> 
> He mocks my credulous attitude to religion - but I must admit I am rather skeptical about health foods and the like - even New Zealand honey.


It does have some antiseptic qualities but it's worth keeping in mind Manuka is a fucking shrub that colonises areas that nothing else will grow in and is a big problem for cleared land as it grows and forces out other native species (it's the same thing that is called teatree in Oz and which also has the "alternative" medince people in its thrall).


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 25, 2015)

Any honey in hot drinks when you have a cold is soothing for coughs and sore throats. Put it together with lemon and soluble paracetamol and its nicer /cheaper than pharmacy remedies, I recall even NHS recomends it. I'm skeptical about manuka honey, though it tastes nice enough, I have someone who keeps buying it for me as a gift, but I wouldn't bother myself.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 25, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Opportunity is important though. I did detached youth work in Bootle back in the 90s and there was a huge gulf between opportunity there and opportunity in London which led to very limited expectations.
> 
> I do agree that wages have stayed stagnant whilst the cost of living in London has rocketed and that rising inequality is a huge issue. But the answers like more social housing and rent caps are not happening. What do we do?



This:


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 25, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Brixton is on remarkably good form today in the cold sunshine.
> 
> Nice to bump into Gramsci (also on good form!)



Good to see you.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 25, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> This:


Will Giles Fraser be there?


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

It's well icy out there now.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 25, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Brixton is on remarkably good form today in the cold sunshine



Yep - it was LOVELY on Saturday morning, just ahead of the lunchtime rush.

A few snaps.


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 25, 2015)

Even Renegade Hardware have reformed?!


----------



## Winot (Jan 25, 2015)

Scam alert: young lads going door to door purportedly collecting sponsorship for Tackle Africa, a football marathon to be held in Brockwell Park. 

Except their sponsorship form was from 2013[emoji6]

Details here:
http://tackleafrica.org/football-marathon/cash-collecting-for-football-marathons/


----------



## nagapie (Jan 25, 2015)

Where can I print photos off a phone in Brixton or the surrounding area today?


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 25, 2015)

I'm mixing up my Soundwave with my Hardware aren't I.


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 25, 2015)

nagapie said:


> Where can I print photos off a phone in Brixton or the surrounding area today?



That machine in Boots?


----------



## nagapie (Jan 25, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> That machine in Boots?



I'll go take a look.


----------



## xsunnysuex (Jan 25, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> Yep - it was LOVELY on Saturday morning, just ahead of the lunchtime rush.
> 
> A few snaps.


*Wow!!!  What lovely photo's.  The colours are really sharp.  What camera do you use?*


----------



## CH1 (Jan 25, 2015)

How about this for brightening up the Prince of Wales?
 
14/06661/ADV | Installation of 10x LED advertising boards to the upper floors. | 467 Brixton Road London SW9 8HH
Was chatting to a concerned friend looking at a response for the Brixton Society, and he noticed there are no public responses on the council's webite - possibly because it has not been advertised (as far as we know).
Official deadline for comment is tomorrow, 26th January.

I'm thinking about starting a thread on this and the other mega advertising we've had and will no doubt get in future.

Meanwhile, the applicant for the above scheme says it will enhance the area, and advises:  _*" *__*...it is considered that the site context is similar to Piccadilly Circus or Old Street roundabout........The nature of Brixton Town Centre is very much a dynamic and vibrant commercial and retail hub where such a proposal would not be out of place."*_


----------



## colacubes (Jan 25, 2015)

WTAF 

I'll stick in an objection to that monster   Is it not part of the Conservation zone ffs?


----------



## CH1 (Jan 25, 2015)

colacubes said:


> WTAF
> I'll stick in an objection to that monster   Is it not part of the Conservation zone ffs?


Yes - Town Centre Conservation Area - and I think the building itself has some sort of local listing:
467 Brixton Road SW9 8HH
467 – 469. Large curved brick frontage on corner with Coldharbour Lane. Vertical fins and monumental Prince of Wales feathers motifs in faience. Rebuild of earlier hotel by Joseph Hill for the Wenlock Brewery, 1938
Coldharbour Brixton (CA26)


----------



## colacubes (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Yes - Town Centre Conservation Area - and I think the building itself has some sort of local listing:
> 467 Brixton Road SW9 8HH
> 467 – 469. Large curved brick frontage on corner with Coldharbour Lane. Vertical fins and monumental Prince of Wales feathers motifs in faience. Rebuild of earlier hotel by Joseph Hill for the Wenlock Brewery, 1938
> Coldharbour Brixton (CA26)



Yeah, was just looking it up myself as I thought it was.

http://lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/pl-CA26Brixton240412.pdf

I know that the advertising hoarding above Iceland is only temporary whilst the developer "works" on the building (not much evidence of that) and I think I saw some discussion that the hoarding above H&M hasn't got permission, but if it has again it will only be temporary whilst the Premier Inn is being built (which there seems to be some movement on as they've been granted a rolling road closure on Electric Lane for lifting stuff in place over the next 18 months).  Even then those are static advertisements so I just can't see how there's any precedence for this nonsense.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 25, 2015)

Well you certainly can't fault them for trying! I can't believe this has the remotest chance of being passed!

Still worth commenting after the deadline any time up to the decision date but sooner the better. Probably cannot do it on the site but Just email the planner direct.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> How about this for brightening up the Prince of Wales?
> View attachment 66855 View attachment 66856
> 14/06661/ADV | Installation of 10x LED advertising boards to the upper floors. | 467 Brixton Road London SW9 8HH
> Was chatting to a concerned friend looking at a response for the Brixton Society, and he noticed there are no public responses on the council's webite - possibly because it has not been advertised (as far as we know).
> ...



fuck that shit


----------



## T & P (Jan 25, 2015)

Kill it with fucking fire.

Seriously, what kind of cunt could have possibly thought such abomination would be acceptable in any way? Backhanders much?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> How about this for brightening up the Prince of Wales?
> View attachment 66855 View attachment 66856
> 14/06661/ADV | Installation of 10x LED advertising boards to the upper floors. | 467 Brixton Road London SW9 8HH
> Was chatting to a concerned friend looking at a response for the Brixton Society, and he noticed there are no public responses on the council's webite - possibly because it has not been advertised (as far as we know).
> ...



It was "advertised" in last week's "Lambeth Weekender" (just checked it and the SLP).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 25, 2015)

T & P said:


> Kill it with fucking fire.
> 
> Seriously, what kind of cunt could have possibly thought such abomination would be acceptable in any way? Backhanders much?



Some sort of mutual back-scratching or genital-rubbing, anyway.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 25, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> It was "advertised" in last week's "Lambeth Weekender" (just checked it and the SLP).


Doesn't give much notice then. I've done my duty now, so there is at least 1 public comment!


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> How about this for brightening up the Prince of Wales?
> View attachment 66855 View attachment 66856
> 14/06661/ADV | Installation of 10x LED advertising boards to the upper floors. | 467 Brixton Road London SW9 8HH
> Was chatting to a concerned friend looking at a response for the Brixton Society, and he noticed there are no public responses on the council's webite - possibly because it has not been advertised (as far as we know).
> ...


Let me get that on Buzz ASAP!


----------



## Belushi (Jan 25, 2015)

bloody hell


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

Is this designed to be temporary while the buildings works are going on or permanent?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 25, 2015)

I'm objecting. It's hideous.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 25, 2015)

colacubes said:


> Yeah, was just looking it up myself as I thought it was.
> http://lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/pl-CA26Brixton240412.pdf
> I know that the advertising hoarding above Iceland is only temporary whilst the developer "works" on the building (not much evidence of that) and I think I saw some discussion that the hoarding above H&M hasn't got permission, but if it has again it will only be temporary whilst the Premier Inn is being built (which there seems to be some movement on as they've been granted a rolling road closure on Electric Lane for lifting stuff in place over the next 18 months).  Even then those are static advertisements so I just can't see how there's any precedence for this nonsense.


I just popped out to check, but I can confirm that the Iceland sign has been taken down (I think it went a few weeks ago). I guess the student residences are nearing completion.

The one above H & M is very worrying. It has been discussed on here already. 
Permission for that one was refused on 16th December 2014, but they put it up anyway. The frame mountings for the advert are inserted into the stonework facade causing permanent damage. And the naff looking floodlights reach down from the parapet - though maybe these have not cause structural damage.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

Article here: Massive LED advertising billboard proposed for Brixton Road – deadline for comments is 26th Jan


----------



## Crispy (Jan 25, 2015)

Not a chance this will pass


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

Crispy said:


> Not a chance this will pass
> 
> View attachment 66861


It's almost like an April Fool's story.  It is a bit worrying that this seemed to slip under the radar though.


----------



## EastEnder (Jan 25, 2015)

I have an inexplicable craving for something tasty & sugar coated....


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 25, 2015)

xsunnysuex said:


> *Wow!!!  What lovely photo's.  The colours are really sharp.  What camera do you use?*



That's very kind - thanks.

I'm still shooting with a Sony F717 - it first came on the market in 2002! I got my inspiration from, um, over here.

The benefits of the camera include an incredibly powerful Carl Zeiss lens. The downside is that Sony admits to a tech error.

This model originally retailed for £600. It is now possible to pick these up on eBay for under £50. Tech error aside, I have so much faith in this camera that I simply replace, as and when the error surfaces.


----------



## colacubes (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I just popped out to check, but I can confirm that the Iceland sign has been taken down (I think it went a few weeks ago). I guess the student residences are nearing completion.
> 
> The one above H & M is very worrying. It has been discussed on here already.
> Permission for that one was refused on 16th December 2014, but they put it up anyway. The frame mountings for the advert are inserted into the stonework facade causing permanent damage. And the naff looking floodlights reach down from the parapet - though maybe these have not cause structural damage.



The student residences above Iceland are nowhere near completion. They put in a few new window frames on the Electric Ave side just before the original hoarding went up. Then nowt. There's been no work inside or out for the best part of a year.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> That's very kind - thanks.
> 
> I'm still shooting with a Sony F717 - it first came on the market in 2002! I got my inspiration from, um, over here.
> 
> ...


The lens on that camera is fantastic and the swivelling mechanism means that you can capture some unusual angles.  For £50 it's an absolute bargain.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Jan 25, 2015)

Just registered my objection. That thing is bloody minging (no, that's not what I wrote).


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

I was DJing at the Dogstar last night. It was blooming busy.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 25, 2015)

colacubes said:


> WTAF
> 
> I'll stick in an objection to that monster   Is it not part of the Conservation zone ffs?


Objection posted - that's 5 this afternoon


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Jan 25, 2015)

Incidentally, this is a good example of the work The Brixton Society do, and it's a only 8 quid a year to join, less for unwaged I think. So even if you don't want to actively participate, for the cost of a posh Burger it's a good cause to support, even if you just think of it as a donation towards photocopying or whatever.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 25, 2015)

editor said:


> Article here: Massive LED advertising billboard proposed for Brixton Road – deadline for comments is 26th Jan


And guess who the owner of the building is - our civic minded Crown Properties (GB) aka Golfrate


----------



## CH1 (Jan 25, 2015)

ricbake said:


> And guess who the owner of the building is - our civic minded Crown Properties (GB) aka Golfrate


Actually those people can be ruthless I hear - didn't they close down the only gay pub in Lewisham after buying the place from Admiral Inns and hiking the rent?

*edited to add source*


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Actually those people can be ruthless I hear - didn't they close down the only gay pub in Lewisham after buying the place from Admiral Inns and hiking the rent?
> 
> *edited to add source*


If you type Golfrate into Google, this is the number 2 result:
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/anyone-know-anything-about-golfrate.177470/

They're also behind the proposal to turn Barnados and Mothercare into a large restaurant.

Edit: this article makes me shudder: "...the pub portfolio will provide added value/redevelopment opportunities for Golfrate " 
http://www.costar.co.uk/en/assets/n...loses-20m-whole-loan-for-20-strong-portfolio/


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

I think the postings here and the Brixton Buzz article have helped bump up the objections on the Lambeth site - there's now ten listed. Good work CH1  for finding this!

I'll retweet the story in the morning too for maximum coverage.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 25, 2015)

editor said:


> If you type Golfrate into Google, this is the number 2 result:
> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/anyone-know-anything-about-golfrate.177470/
> 
> They're also behind the proposal to turn Barnados and Mothercare into a large restaurant.
> ...


They don't seem to actually develop or create anything do they? Just take out loans to buy properties and milk the tenants - a bit like buy-to-let "entrepreneurs".


----------



## CH1 (Jan 25, 2015)

editor said:


> I think the postings here and the Brixton Buzz article have helped bump up the objections on the Lambeth site - there's now ten listed. Good work CH1  for finding this!
> 
> I'll retweet the story in the morning too for maximum coverage.


I must thank people who have taken the trouble to put in objections on the Lambeth Planning website. It has gone from zero public comment to ten submissions in six hours. Shows that Urban 75 has much stronger local liaison than Lambeth Planning IMHO!


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> They don't seem to actually develop or create anything do they? Just take out loans to buy properties and milk the tenants - a bit like buy-to-let "entrepreneurs".


But I'm sure they work jolly hard at doing absolutely nothing useful. It's not like being a parasite is easy you know.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 25, 2015)

October 17, 2014
Golfrate, the London-based property management company, has acquired an 11-strong package of pubs, the majority of which are owned by Punch Taverns, in a deal funded by a new £20m loan



			
				  said:
			
		

> “Golfrate has built a strong reputation in the successful acquisition, re-positioning and management of single assets and portfolios in London. We are very pleased to have worked with them on this transaction and look forward to continuing as one of their lending partners.
> 
> Hussein Aziz from Golfrate, added: “This is our 10th portfolio acquisition within the leisure sector since 2010 bringing our ownership of freehold and long leasehold public houses in London to over 180 individual assets.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

ricbake said:


> October 17, 2014
> Golfrate, the London-based property management company, has acquired an 11-strong package of pubs, the majority of which are owned by Punch Taverns, in a deal funded by a new £20m loan


I think they own the Windmill too.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 25, 2015)

ricbake said:


> Objection posted - that's 5 this afternoon


Grrrrr. I typed in a big long objection on the Lambeth site, but when I tried to post it - it told me I was timed out, arrgh!
Trying again.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

Sixteen objections now. 



> I object to this monstrous board of hell.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 25, 2015)

editor said:


> I think they own the Windmill too.



also Lost Society, Wandsworth Road and I can't find where I read it but I'm sure they are the Landlord of the Fridge


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I must thank people who have taken the trouble to put in objections on the Lambeth Planning website. It has gone from zero public comment to ten submissions in six hours. Shows that Urban 75 has much stronger local liaison than Lambeth Planning IMHO!


With this kind of blue sky hyperlocal stakeholder engagement we  should be getting a big fat grant or something.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 25, 2015)

Urban75 is the Cooperative Council


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> How about this for brightening up the Prince of Wales?
> Official deadline for comment is tomorrow, 26th January.
> 
> I'm thinking about starting a thread on this and the other mega advertising we've had and will no doubt get in future.



Thanks a lot for informing posters here about this.

Just commented and opposed this application online.


----------



## editor (Jan 25, 2015)

19 objections now!


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I must thank people who have taken the trouble to put in objections on the Lambeth Planning website. It has gone from zero public comment to ten submissions in six hours. Shows that Urban 75 has much stronger local liaison than Lambeth Planning IMHO!



Finally posted my objection. phew!

I know some of you lot are on the ball about such things, so I think Lambeth have deliberately not publicised this, I assume they don't want us to have time to organise against it. I'm annoyed.


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## leanderman (Jan 25, 2015)

Odd how these contentious applications seem to suddenly appear online.

Had been checking for a Mango Landin' planning application for months.

Yet by the time it was spotted, last week, consent had been granted some weeks earlier. Suspicious.

Have forwarded the BrixtonBuzz billboard outrage tweet to my deluded followers.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 25, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Odd how these contentious applications seem to suddenly appear online.
> 
> Had been checking for a Mango Landin' planning application for months.
> 
> ...


On this Prince of Wales one they (unsusually) posted up a list of consultees:
Brixton Society
Herne Hill Society
Loughborough Junction Action Group
First Floor Above Prince Of Wales 469 Brixton Road London SW9 8HH
432 Coldharbour Lane London SW9 8LG
Prince Of Wales 469 Brixton Road London SW9 8HH
463 - 465 Brixton Road London SW9 8HL
1,2,3,4,5,6 Chaplin House (rear of Ritzy)
447 Coldharbour Lane London SW9 8LP
Flats 1-9 506a Brixton Road SW9 8EN
504 Brixton Road London SW9 8EW
518 - 522 Brixton Road London SW9 8EN
Shop Unit Adjacent To McDonalds Fronting Acre Lane London SW2 5SG
Flats 1,2,3&4 502 - 504 Brixton Road London SW9 8EN
Flat A & Flat B 512 Brixton Road London SW9 8ER
Ground Floor 516 Brixton Road London SW9 8EN
Shop 510 Brixton Road London SW9 8EN
506 - 508 Brixton Road London SW9 8EN
Top Flat 510 Brixton Road London SW9 8EN
First To Third Floors 516 Brixton Road London SW9 8EN
Basement 516 Brixton Road London SW9 8EN
HSBC Bank 512 - 514 Brixton Road London SW9 8ER

That's about 32 addresses, some stupid (e.g. 2 to the Prince of Wales itself)
I wonder if they really sent consultation letters to all those?


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 25, 2015)

Well done CH1 for posting all this here in time for us to object, perhaps you've foiled their plan to sneak it through the planning process.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 25, 2015)

CH1 said:


> On this Prince of Wales one they (unsusually) posted up a list of consultees:



The Tenant or staff at the Prince of Wales may have wanted to comment

Have the Brixton Bid people commented on any application since they were formed?

Although invited, had any of these people made any comments ...


----------



## nagapie (Jan 25, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> That machine in Boots?



No machine in Boots. Tried the internet place next to the Rec, printer broken. Tried the printing place on the corner of Brixton and Atlantic Road, printer broken. The guy sent me to Cafe Brixton, and it worked. My son had the class mascot for the weekend for being 'Star of the Week' and I had to get the photos printed before we returned Kit Koala and his book tomorrow I've never been in Cafe Brixton, it was really nice. I'm always too busy at that Moroccan place on the corner which serves the best food in Brixton.


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## CH1 (Jan 25, 2015)

ricbake said:


> The Tenant or staff at the Prince of Wales may have wanted to comment
> Have the Brixton Bid people commented on any application since they were formed?
> Although invited, had any of these people made any comments ...


As you say the POW tenant and staff have every right to comment.

Brixton BID - I have never seen a comment from them, but I had not realised they are official consultees until you pointed it out now.

Regarding the societies - the Brixton Society is on the case, but I should think LJAG and Herne Hill Society consider this application out of their area of benefit.

I suspect all the other consultees did not bother, or we would have seen some comments on-line. Do people write letters to the council these days?


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## ricbake (Jan 25, 2015)

Been trying to search the Lambeth planning web site for other Turnberry Planning Ltd applications or for Crown Properties (GB) but the site search only gives a drop down menu in an Agent search - these people are not included.

Mustak Ibrahim works for Golfrate/Crown Properties (GB), and is the name attached to the Hotel planning application granted on Coldharbour Lane


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## swampster (Jan 25, 2015)

Have submitted objections X2. Friends are trying to do the same and are now being told that they are no longer accepting comments from the public - the consultation period has passed. This is clearly untrue.
It is clearly stated that the consultation period goes on until 26 January 2015. If you cannot submit an online comment, please continue to email your comment to planning@lambeth.gov.uk pointing this fact out.

RE:14/06661/ADV | Installation of 10x LED advertising boards to the upper floors. | 467 Brixton Road London SW9 8HH


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## leanderman (Jan 26, 2015)

swampster said:


> Have submitted objections X2. Friends are trying to do the same and are now being told that they are no longer accepting comments from the public - the consultation period has passed. This is clearly untrue.
> It is clearly stated that the consultation period goes on until 26 January 2015.



By one definition of until, the consultation period has indeed passed.


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## swampster (Jan 26, 2015)

It was 23.44 on 25 January. Not happy.


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## leanderman (Jan 26, 2015)

swampster said:


> It was 23.44 on 25 January. Not happy.



Sneaky of them


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## swampster (Jan 26, 2015)

JUST FUCKING EMAIL. Presumably consultation doesn't have to be by their soppy form.


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## leanderman (Jan 26, 2015)

swampster said:


> JUST FUCKING EMAIL. Presumably consultation doesn't have to be by their soppy form.



Seems there was no chance of it ever being approved though.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

swampster said:


> It was 23.44 on 25 January. Not happy.


I think it might be working now.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Seems there was no chance of it ever being approved though.


I'm still not happy about the way that something so major seemed to have slipped under the radar. 600 page views have already been registered on Brixton Buzz so there's clearly interest in finding out about these things.


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## se5 (Jan 26, 2015)

Apropos of nothing: interesting to read the various stories around about BHS which state that the first British Home Stores shop was established in Brixton in 1928 - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sho...ores-in-Brixton-to-180-stores-nationwide.html (presumably in Dorrell Place as described in the history section http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/dorrell.html) - didnt realise this was another Brixton first!


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

se5 said:


> Apropos of nothing: interesting to read the various stories around about BHS which state that the first British Home Stores shop was established in Brixton in 1928 - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/sho...ores-in-Brixton-to-180-stores-nationwide.html (presumably in Dorrell Place as described in the history section http://www.urban75.org/brixton/history/dorrell.html) - didnt realise this was another Brixton first!


I wrote a large piece about this last week!







Born in Brixton: British Home Stores department chain store


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## leanderman (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> I'm still not happy about the way that something so major seemed to have slipped under the radar. 600 page views have already been registered on Brixton Buzz so there's clearly interest in finding out about these things.



Again, as with the more minor Mango: 

*Application Validated Date* Mon 29 Sep 2014
*Consultation Expiry Date* Thu 30 Oct 2014
*Decision Issued Date* Fri 19 Dec 2014

But the first anyone seemed to hear about it was:

*January 23, 2015*


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## ricbake (Jan 26, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Again, as with the more minor Mango:
> 
> *Application Validated Date* Mon 29 Sep 2014
> *Consultation Expiry Date* Thu 30 Oct 2014
> ...


Looks like we should have a Lambeth Council Planning and buried news Thread as a sticky...


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

ricbake said:


> Looks like we should have a Lambeth Council Planning and buried news Thread as a sticky...


Maybe they should get really co-operative and just post up the planning applications here where it would appear that they get seen by a lot more people.


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## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Again, as with the more minor Mango:
> 
> *Application Validated Date* Mon 29 Sep 2014
> *Consultation Expiry Date* Thu 30 Oct 2014
> ...


That was when I noticed the pink letter on the lamp post. No idea how long it had been there but presumably since September? It was facing the building and I normally walk past on the other side of the road so it would not have been visible. Just happened to cross over because I had seen some people throwing stuff over the wall and wondered whether it was builders.

I think the notices are the minimum required by statute. Same for licensing. I know that licensing resisted requiring larger more visible noticed (even though they recommended A3 in the Lambeth Licensing Statement) because they feared clubs would take action against them. I discovered this when I missed a licence application by Mass which was apparently properly advertised with an A4 notice on the below ground crypt door in the middle of a traffic gyratory.

A bright yellow A3 notice would seem the appropriate thing for developments larger than a residential extension.

A monthly map view mail out of planning applications available to anyone who wants to subscribe should be easy for planning to organise.

There is nothing to stop U75 publishing applications but it is too political and too much under the control of one person to be a credible official / partner outlet. Misleading online comments might even leave the council open to action.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> A monthly map view mail out of planning applications available to anyone who wants to subscribe should be easy for planning to organise.



Something like this makes sense, or at least putting all applications online. The signs are an outdated format now, and easy to miss unless you're actively looking for them as with
Rushy's example. It's also a lot easier to comment online. The majority might not be of interest to most people, but it seems unfair to have a bit of a lottery about the process.

Edited to add: I never thought I'd have opinions about planning application processes. Is this adulthood?


----------



## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Something like this makes sense, or at least putting all applications online. The signs are an outdated format now, and easy to miss unless you're activly looking for them as with
> Rushy's example. It's also a lot easier to comment online. The majority might not be of interest to most people, but it seems unfair to have a bit of a lottery about the process.


They are all published online and also advertised in the monthly emailed Lambeth Weekender which can be subscribed to, but I have just checked and have not received a notification of a new copy since November. It's ok but not very user user friendly IMO.

I think the street notices are still very important since they get the attention of people in the immediate vicinity of the proposal who may not normally engage with the planning system.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> There is nothing to stop U75 publishing applications but it is too political and too much under the control of one person to be a credible official / partner outlet.


Just a reminder: the site is not under my sole control and has not been so for a very, very long time indeed.  urban75 is staunchly independent and has no affiliation with any political party nor does it take any money from the council. Everyone is free to post their opinions on Brixton matters, unedited.





Rushy said:


> Misleading online comments might even leave the council open to action.


Exactly how might someone commenting on a planning application that has been reproduced unedited and in full here lead to such an "action"? Could you give some examples of 'actionable' comments about planning applications already being posted here?

Give the response to this until-now unseen planning application, I'd say that that the site has proved itself to be a real asset for informing people about contentious planning applications. I'd like to see more of it.

There's now 56 objections. Along with B Buzz, no other local media has covered the story.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> There is nothing to stop U75 publishing applications but it is too political and too much under the control of one person to be a credible official / partner outlet. Misleading online comments might even leave the council open to action



This is an online space where people can bring concerns about local issues and it has inspired 55 people over 18 hours to lodge their concerns about something that will dramatically affect our immediate surroundings.

The Council is now Cooperative which basically means they no longer have the resources to be capable of covering all the bases. They need help. If we let fears and concerns about personal and individual politics stop us doing things, the current pace of development will engulf us all


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## leanderman (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> Given the _(large) _response to this until-now unseen planning application ...



Absolutely, and well done.

Is it the case that this application, and others, was available online but was not seen?

Or are they posted online very late in the planning process?


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## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> Just a reminder: the site is not under my sole control and has not been so for a very, very long time indeed.  urban75 is staunchly independent and has no affiliation with any political party nor does it take any money from the council. Everyone is free to post their opinions on Brixton matters, unedited.Exactly how might someone commenting on a planning application that has been reproduced unedited and in full here lead to such an "action"? Could you give some examples of 'actionable' comments about planning applications already being posted here?
> 
> Give the responsive to this until-now unseen planning application, I'd say that that the site has proved itself to be a real asset for informing people about contentious planning applications. I'd like to see more of it.



It is great that to see people acting on the back off the Buzz article. I don't see this as justification for an affiliation between Buzz /U75 and Lambeth. In fact, it perhaps shows that an affiliation is not necessary.

If you want Lambeth to work more closely with the site, it will need to be on terms which you both agree. Your (editor, author, founder and, in effect, managing director) anti establishment views and their establishment nature will make this very difficult.  I doubt they are going to come to you, so why don't you formally arrange a meeting and see where it takes you?


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## Tricky Skills (Jan 26, 2015)

It shouldn't be about 'Lambeth working more closely with the site.' The planning data should be by default made available for anyone to use and publicise in ways that they seem fit. Working closely with Lambeth Council suggests some form of relationship. We have seen how this compromises other local media, especially when money has been changed hands.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Your (editor, author, founder and, in effect, managing director) anti establishment views and their establishment nature will make this very difficult?


Managing director?!!! LOL! Sorry, but I really can't take you seriously when you start making up nonsense like that.  

And my views aren't "anti establishment", they're just my honest _opinions _formed in response to individual issues - so on some things I may agree with the council, and on other issues I won't. The beauty of being independent and not taking any money from the council gives me that freedom.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Absolutely, and well done.
> 
> Is it the case that this application, and others, was available online but was not seen?
> 
> Or are they posted online very late in the planning process?


I doubt if we'll ever know the answer to that, but it does seem clear that it's not unusual for planning applications that are of real interest to go unseen. The Lambeth planning site is hardly the easiest thing to peruse.  I'm going to drop them a line and see if they'd be interested in posting them here, perhaps in a dedicated closed forum (with companion threads started for the ones that people want to talk about).

I haven't found one, but there should be a map where you can see the location of all planning applications and set up alerts for those areas, based on your areas of interest. memespring  did set up a data stream for planning applications, but this stopped working.


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## ricbake (Jan 26, 2015)

In the Planning Portal you can certainly set up email alerts for anything included in specific searches, but it is a difficult site to search at the best of times


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

I can't make this but if anyone is going it would be great to see a report: 
Brixton public meeting: A Tale of Two Cities discusses the housing crisis, 26th Jan


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## teuchter (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> Just a reminder: the site is not under my sole control and has not been so for a very, very long time indeed.  urban75 is staunchly independent and has no affiliation with any political party nor does it take any money from the council. Everyone is free to post their opinions on Brixton matters, unedited.


Are they bollocks. Everyone is free to post their opinions on what you deem to be "appropriate". You are free to post your opinions on whatever you like, and you have the power to shut down any discussion of your opinions when you don't like it, and you use it. Frequently.


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## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> Managing director?!!! LOL! Sorry, but I really can't take you seriously when you start making up nonsense like that.
> 
> And my views aren't "anti establishment", they're just my honest _opinions _formed in response to individual issues - so on some things I may agree with the council, and on other issues I won't. The beauty of being independent and not taking any money from the council gives me that freedom.


Suspecting how you would feel about such a common establishment term, I said "in effect". You have previously called it things such as head honcho and numero uno (which are quite common in media start ups but a bit vague amongst the wider community). Whatever you call it, you are the one ultimately responsible for choosing the direction of and managing the site (hence "in effect" managing director). Closer ties with Lambeth would be such a choice.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Are they bollocks. Everyone is free to post their opinions on what you deem to be "appropriate". You are free to post your opinions on whatever you like, and you have the power to shut down any discussion of your opinions when you don't like it, and you use it. Frequently.


That is, of course, a pack of silly lies.

But feel free to back it up by furnishing the forum with some examples of any Brixton-related posts of yours that have been edited, deleted or "shut down" please?  Or any discussions by anyone else in this forum that have been closed down by me because "I don't like it". URLs please. Thanks.

Oh, and post it in the feedback forum please. I don't want this thread trashed with your beef.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> You have previously called it things such as head honcho and numero uno (which are quite common in media start ups but a bit vague amongst the wider community).


When did I use those words?


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## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> It shouldn't be about 'Lambeth working more closely with the site.' The planning data should be by default made available for anyone to use and publicise in ways that they seem fit. Working closely with Lambeth Council suggests some form of relationship. We have seen how this compromises other local media, especially when money has been changed hands.


The system is not at all perfect but I have never come across an application which is not available to view online within a couple of days of validation. They are all published in SLP (I think still?) and Lambeth Weekender. Lists are published at the library. You can also set up alerts but the functionality send a little limited. 

I agree you don't need close ties but some some of relationship beyond reading the public notifications along with everyone else is what seems to be being proposed. If you understandably want to maintain independence I don't see how that would be at all workable. I _think_ I am with you on this.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> The system is not at all perfect but I have never come across an application which is not available to view online within a couple of days of validation. They are all published in SLP (I think still?) and Lambeth Weekender. Lists are published at the library. You can also set up alerts but the functionality send a little limited.
> 
> I agree you don't need close ties but some some of relationship beyond reading the public notifications along with everyone else is what seems to be being proposed. If you understandably want to maintain independence I don't see how that would be at all workable. I _think_ I am with you on this.


I could think of an easy way: a new sub forum is set up here for Lambeth to post up major planning applications*. It would have to be read-only otherwise people may assume that commenting on it here will count as an objection.

If a subsequent discussion breaks out in the main Brixton forum, I could add a link to it from the application post.

End result: more people hear about the planning proposals and more discussions take place. Co-op-tastic! 

*I understand that this could be open to interpretation


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 26, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Doesn't give much notice then. I've done my duty now, so there is at least 1 public comment!



Not much notice at all!


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## SpamMisery (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> That is, of course, a pack of silly lies.
> 
> But feel free to back it up by furnishing the forum with some examples of any Brixton-related posts of yours that have been edited, deleted or "shut down" please?  Or any discussions by anyone else in this forum that have been closed down by me because "I don't like it". URLs please. Thanks.
> 
> Oh, and post it in the feedback forum please. I don't want this thread trashed with your beef.



This topic is an example. I haven't posted up my views because I know it will result in a torrent of abuse culminating in you accusing me of being disruptive. All of which edges me ever closer to another ban. My views, for the record, aren't particularly inflammatory - I just deem it not worth the hassle of engaging


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> This topic is an example. I haven't posted up my views because I know it will result in a torrent of abuse culminating in you accusing me of being disruptive. All of which edges me ever closer to another ban. My views, for the record, aren't particularly inflammatory - I just deem it not worth the hassle of engaging


Please take this matter to the feedback forum where it will get the full attention of the mods.


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## snowy_again (Jan 26, 2015)

This site is firewalled for 'inappropriate content' if you try to access it from a school (and even some of my ex-employee's servers).


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> This site is firewalled for 'inappropriate content' if you try to access it from a school (and even some of my ex-employee's servers).


It's a major pain. I thought that the forum was usually OK though. Either way, it's clearly reaching parts of Brixton that the current system is failing to reach, so I think posting up applications here could provide a real service (even more so if the bigger storied are flagged up on B Buzz).


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## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> When did I use those words?


We've been here before. Along with the main man, the big cheese, in your own U75 profile. It doesn't really matter when or what you call it. The point is - you are in charge and you have similar responsibilities to a managing director. Looking at ways to develop and build the site is part of that.



editor said:


> I could think of an easy way: a new sub forum is set up here for Lambeth to post up major planning applications*. It would have to be read-only otherwise people may assume that commenting on it here will count as an objection.
> 
> If a subsequent discussion breaks out in the main Brixton forum, I could add a link to it from the application post.
> 
> ...



Not a bad idea - if you arrange it. The info is all out there. But I don't see the council agreeing to get involved. You see the fact that these are in different sub forums as a genuine separation. I don't. I doubt they do. It's still all U75 and U75 is, I'm afraid, seen as fairly toxic in such circles. That's not to say they don't like it or respect it. Just that they want to keep it at arms length.

But hey - maybe I'm wrong. Go and ask them. See what they say.


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## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> This site is firewalled for 'inappropriate content' if you try to access it from a school (and even some of my ex-employee's servers).


It's even firewalled on my work PC (by me). 15mins max per day, along with facebook, guardian and twitter!


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> We've been here before. Along with the main man, the big cheese, in your own U75 profile. It doesn't really matter when or what you call it. The point is - you are in charge and you have similar responsibilities to a managing director. Looking at ways to develop and build the site is part of that.


That was written approx 15 years ago. I won't say it again because it seems you're not listening, but the site is effectively run by a committee of mods, informed and guided by the users' needs and feedback. I can not do whatever I like, and many times my ideas have been turned down flat by the mods, so I really don't think that reality matches any job descriptions of managing directors and, of course, they get paid. And it's a silly argument anyway. Non profit sites like these don't have "managing directors."


Rushy said:


> Not a bad idea - if you arrange it. The info is all out there. But I don't see the council agreeing to get involved. You see the fact that these are in different sub forums as a genuine separation. I don't. I doubt they do. It's still all U75 and U75 is, I'm afraid, seen as fairly toxic in such circles. That's not to say they don't like it or respect it. Just that they want to keep it at arms length.


Yes, I can see that. But maybe it won't look so good in their co-op PR when the effectiveness of this particular case is highlighted. 0-104 comments overnight!


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 26, 2015)

ricbake said:


> This is an online space where people can bring concerns about local issues and it has inspired 55 people over 18 hours to lodge their concerns about something that will dramatically affect our immediate surroundings.
> 
> The Council is now Cooperative which basically means they no longer have the resources to be capable of covering all the bases. They need help. If we let fears and concerns about personal and individual politics stop us doing things, the current pace of development will engulf us all



Though it's not only the pace that needs worrying about. As evidenced by the LED screen application, it's also the quality.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> That was written approx 15 years ago. I won't say it again because it seems you're not listening, but the site is effectively run by a committee of mods, informed and guided by the users' needs and feedback. I can not do whatever I like, and many times my ideas have been turned down flat by the mods, so I really don't think that reality matches any job descriptions of managing directors and, of course, they get paid. And it's a silly argument anyway. Non profit sites like these don't have "managing directors."
> Yes, I can see that. But maybe it won't look so good in their co-op PR when the effectiveness of this particular case is highlighted. 0-104 comments overnight!


So go and talk to them.
You won't get away with bullying them into it. You will need to cooperate to get what you want. And they will want to deal with someone who has control, can make decisions and will /can take responsibility for making sure that whatever is agreed to will be adhered to.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> You won't get away with bullying them into it.


Now I've gone from managing director to potential bully. What a day it's been!


----------



## Winot (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> Now I've gone from managing director to potential bully. What a day it's been!



Power tends to corrupt.  Absolute power corrupts absolutely.


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 26, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> It shouldn't be about 'Lambeth working more closely with the site.' The planning data should be by default made available for anyone to use and publicise in ways that they seem fit. Working closely with Lambeth Council suggests some form of relationship. We have seen how this compromises other local media, especially when money has been changed hands.



Provision of that data for the purposes of local consultation is a statutory obligation on the local authority, regardless of who wants and utilises the data. If a website such as Urban wants to strip-mine and publicise that data, that's no business of the local authority, and there's no obligation on the end-user/end provider of the data to enter into a "relationship" with the local authority.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

On a lighter note, here's some pics from Friday's Offline night at the Albert. 

















http://www.urban75.org/offline/brixton-dj-23-jan-2015.html


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## ViolentPanda (Jan 26, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Are they bollocks. Everyone is free to post their opinions on what you deem to be "appropriate". You are free to post your opinions on whatever you like, and you have the power to shut down any discussion of your opinions when you don't like it, and you use it. Frequently.



If that were *actually* the case, wouldn't he have banned your whining arse long ago?


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## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> Now I've gone from managing director to potential bully. What a day it's been!


I didn't say potential.


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## leanderman (Jan 26, 2015)

All that needs to happen is for the Lambeth planning portal to be bang up to date and a little easier to use. Plus the more visible local notices, as suggested by Rushy.


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## brixtonblade (Jan 26, 2015)

It never ceases to amaze me how quickly and completely these discussions get waylaid into bullshit


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## ricbake (Jan 26, 2015)

brixtonblade said:


> It never ceases to amaze me how quickly and completely these discussions get waylaid into bullshit





Rushy said:


> We've been here before...........
> But hey - maybe I'm wrong. Go and ask them. See what they say.





Rushy said:


> So go and talk to them.
> You won't get away with bullying them into it. You will need to cooperate to get what you want. And they will want to deal with someone who has control, can make decisions and will /can take responsibility for making sure that whatever is agreed to will be adhered to.





Rushy said:


> It's even firewalled on my work PC (by me). 15mins max per day, along with facebook, guardian and twitter!



Must be nearly 15 minutes....
What is the point of continually obscuring the message because of your personal issues with the way it is being delivered

The Council is now "Cooperative" - they are embracing everyone who says they will help do their job for them


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

leanderman said:


> All that needs to happen is for the Lambeth planning portal to be bang up to date and a little easier to use. Plus the more visible local notices, as suggested by Rushy.


Lambeth's entire website was recently updated at a cost of £fucknows. I doubt if it's going to get any better anytime soon.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2015)

leanderman said:


> All that needs to happen is for the Lambeth planning portal to be bang up to date and a little easier to use.


Unlikely to happen. It's the same shitty 3rd party system as used by dozens of other councils and I imagine they're well and truly locked into it.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 26, 2015)

I think the Planning Portal lacks any consistent search tags or formats for entering building names or street numbers, also many larger buildings and big developments span more than one postcode - the planning officers probably haven't been given much help on that side of the IT


----------



## Crispy (Jan 26, 2015)

The Map Search is actually the best way to track down applications for a specific site, but it's incredibly slow and has a terrible interface


----------



## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

ricbake said:


> Must be nearly 15 minutes....
> What is the point of continually obscuring the message because of your personal issues with the way it is being delivered
> 
> The Council is now "Cooperative" - they are embracing everyone who says they will help do their job for them


You keep saying help. The point is, Lambeth will need to be convinced this will _help_ them. Whilst I know that there are those in the council who have respect for this site, even many of those largely regard it as something to be engaged with at arm's length. Not a reliable partner for helping them carry out their duties. Lambeth have _no obligation_ to advertise their planning consulting more widely than they are currently doing and partnering up with Urban could reasonably be expected to risk bringing more problems than it solves. These are valid concerns which Urban needs to confront if they want to be more involved at an official level. Even if it is for the "public good", it is Urban who is calling for this. If U75 does not even have anyone willing to say they are in charge and able to manage a relationship, whatever it may be, Lambeth would be daft to get involved.

None of this stops U75 setting up the planning sub forums mentioned and highlighting particular applications. It's a good idea. The info is all freely out there. Even if Lambeth _did_ provide a feed, someone would need to read it. The only difference would be that no one would have to step outside Urban to do it.

Urban is sometimes a great tool for publicising things and exerting pressure. It is not IMO a credible partner for providing council services. And, to be honest, I can't see why it would want to.

As for 15 minutes - I have a phone, smarty pants.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> You keep saying help. The point is, Lambeth will need to be convinced this will _help_ them. Whilst I know that there are those in the council who have respect for this site, even many of those largely regard it as something to be engaged with at arm's length. Not a reliable partner for helping them carry out their duties. Lambeth have _no obligation_ to advertise their planning consulting more widely than they are currently doing and partnering up with Urban could reasonably be expected to risk bringing more problems than it solves. These are valid concerns which Urban needs to confront if they want to be more involved at an official level. Even if it is for the "public good", it is Urban who is calling for this. If U75 does not even have anyone willing to say they are in charge and able to manage a relationship, whatever it may be, Lambeth would be daft to get involved.
> 
> None of this stops U75 setting up the planning sub forums mentioned and highlighting particular applications. It's a good idea. The info is all freely out there. Even if Lambeth _did_ provide a feed, someone would need to read it. The only difference would be that no one would have to step outside Urban to do it.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure what ongoing partnerships/relationships/management/people in charge/engagement would be required if a planning sub-forum feed was established. All I see is an opportunity to get a lot more people informed and involved in planning applications in their area - and that would seem to sit very agreeably with Lambeth's stated co-operative aims.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> I'm not sure what ongoing partnerships/relationships/management/people in charge/engagement would be required if a planning sub-forum feed was established. All I see is an opportunity to get a lot more people informed and involved in planning applications in their area - and that would seem to sit very agreeably with Lambeth's stated co-operative aims.


So propose it too them. End of.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> That is, of course, a pack of silly lies.
> 
> But feel free to back it up by furnishing the forum with some examples of any Brixton-related posts of yours that have been edited, deleted or "shut down" please?  Or any discussions by anyone else in this forum that have been closed down by me because "I don't like it". URLs please. Thanks.
> 
> Oh, and post it in the feedback forum please. I don't want this thread trashed with your beef.


Trying to keep this concise for the sake of other readers:

1) I have in the past been instructed by you not to reply to any of your posts, or mention or refer to you in any form, on threat of a ban. This was by an official "warning" PM so I can't post a link. Do you deny this? I understand I'm not the only one who's been in this situation.

2) Your response in this instance (ie. your post quoted above) is an example. A comment was made, in context of discussion of Brixton planning application notifications, that Lambeth Council would be unlikely to make u75 an official partner because of the ownership of this site and the way this affects its content and partiality. You made a statement that "everyone is free to post their opinions on Brixton matters". Reacting specifically to that statement, and therefore continuing to be entirely relevant to the conversation that you were yourself engaging in, I disagreed. Your response? Dismissing the entire thing as "beef" and instructing me to make my reply and provide my evidence in the feedback forum where it can be conveniently ignored, instead of on this thread, the location of your claim that I was responding to.

SpamMisery has said above he often refrains from commenting on this thread because of the way you are likely to respond. So do other people hold back from posting. So do I, quite often, believe it or not. I know of several people who don't even read this thread any more for the same reason. These are facts very relevant to the question of how "free" people are, in practice, to share their opinions.

This is your site, your considerable skills have been instrumental in raising it to the prominence it has, you put a lot of your time into it for free, it is a vehicle for many very positive things, it has enriched my experience of living in the area in many ways, and it allows freer and more informative discussion than is possible in many other arenas. You obviously have a genuine care for Brixton and what goes on it, and plenty of the interests you have, I share. But, the fact that you have ultimate control over this site (and more recently Brixton Buzz, which is heavily promoted by links on this thread) means that you have a massively disproportianate ability to publicise your views and favoured issues compared to any other poster. You have to accept and recognise that as the inevitable consequence of being in the position that you are.

Have I wasted 20 minutes of my life typing this all out? Probably.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Trying to keep this concise for the sake of other readers.


Take it to the feedback forum please, as instructed. It is the appropriate forum for such discussions and your complaints will be seen by all the mods, many of whom will be familiar with the background to this.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)




----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> So propose it too them. End of.


Already done.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


>


The feedback forum is the appropriate place for such discussions. It's what it was set up and I've invited him to have a conversation there. So why the facepalm?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> Take it to the feedback forum please, as instructed. It is the appropriate forum for such discussions and your complaints will be seen by all the mods, many of whom will be familiar with the background to this.


Reasons I haven't done this are explained in my post. Plus, the last time I did it as requested, you refused to engage with the actual request being made, and the thread was closed by another mod with the word "yawn".


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Reasons I haven't done this are explained in my post. Plus, the last time I did it as requested, you refused to engage with the actual request being made, and the thread was closed by another mod with the word "yawn".


Thank you for highlighting that thread. I hope people take the time to read the responses from a wide range of regular posters on that thread and make up their own minds about your conduct and agenda here. I do not intend to discuss this any further in the Brixton forum.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

I won't be holding my breath on a reply from Lambeth planning then:



> Thank you for your email. We aim to respond to all enquiries within 10 working days, though often we will be quicker.


 So anything up to 2 weeks.


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## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

It's now up to 140 public comments, all objections as far as I can see. I wonder if this is something of a recent record for the site?
It's encouraging to see so many people prepared to go through the sign up process to register their opinion too.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

You are guaranteed not to get anywhere with a specialist enquiry through the main town planning customer services mail. You need to identify someone in policy and write directly to them. I would start by approaching


*Customer service and engagement: Councillor Marcia Cameron* - Putting the customer at the heart of council services and improving standards of customer care; increasing public participation in council decision-making, local democracy and reaching out to different communities across the borough


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> You are guaranteed not to get anywhere with a specialist enquiry through the main town planning customer services mail. You need to identify someone in policy and write directly to them. I would start by approaching
> 
> 
> *Customer service and engagement: Councillor Marcia Cameron* - Putting the customer at the heart of council services and improving standards of customer care; increasing public participation in council decision-making, local democracy and reaching out to different communities across the borough


I definitely want to be at the heart of council services so have emailed her. Thanks for the heads up!


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Looks like the Standard will be running a feature on this on Thursday. I told them about the billboard covering Woolies too.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

Now at 165 objections with Picturehouse adding theirs.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 26, 2015)

leanderman said:


> All that needs to happen is for the Lambeth planning portal to be bang up to date and a little easier to use. Plus the more visible local notices, as suggested by Rushy.



The notices are supposed to be placed for maximum visibility, which means that Lambeth either employ fuckwits who don't give a damn (entirely possible), or employ people who deliberately place the notices for less-than-maximum visibility (also entirely possible).


----------



## ricbake (Jan 26, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Doesn't give much notice then. I've done my duty now, so there is at least 1 public comment!



Brilliant! - you really started something there! 181 objections and rising


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

The Evening Standard have gone ahead with the feature but, being the shitty Standard, omitted to cite their source.
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...building-in-brixton-town-centre-10003309.html


----------



## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

Why is there an assumption from Hopkins that this will go to committee? Surely Lambeth Planning can just turn it down under delegated powers? I may be incorrect but I thought it only went to committee if they were recommending approval of something potentially controversial, usually with objections.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

I'm beginning to wonder if a bit of a precedent may have been set with the awful Coors Christmas Bar - i.e. wave enough books-balancing wad about and you can put up any old corporate shit.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 26, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Why is there an assumption from Hopkins that this will go to committee? Surely Lambeth Planning can just turn it down under delegated powers? I may be incorrect but I thought it only went to committee if they were recommending approval of something potentially controversial, usually with objections.


I completely agree (unusually).
The only rider is this - they also sent things to committee if they are going to refuse, but expect an appeal (e.g. Tescos). Or that is how it used to be.


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## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I completely agree (unusually).
> The only rider is this - they also sent things to committee if they are going to refuse, but expect an appeal (e.g. Tescos). Or that is how it used to be.


I imagine an appeal would be raised just because they can. But I can't see that it would have legs. It's a conservation area ffs!


----------



## CH1 (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> I'm beginning to wonder if a bit of a precedent may have been set with the awful Coors Christmas Bar - i.e. wave enough books-balancing wad about and you can put up any old corporate shit.


Coors were paying the council, but the ad would have been paying Golfrate.
Where we need to worry is if Diane Morris & co find Times Square an attractive model for added local vibrancy.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> I could think of an easy way: a new sub forum is set up here for Lambeth to post up major planning applications*. It would have to be read-only otherwise people may assume that commenting on it here will count as an objection.
> 
> If a subsequent discussion breaks out in the main Brixton forum, I could add a link to it from the application post.
> 
> ...


I'm interested in big developments and changes to the town centre - I don't want to hear about every house extension. It would be horrible if U75 became any sort of Lambeth council 'portal' as someone said above.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2015)

What happened to this and could it be resurrected?

http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/brixton-planning-watch.98962/


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## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> I'm beginning to wonder if a bit of a precedent may have been set with the awful Coors Christmas Bar - i.e. wave enough books-balancing wad about and you can put up any old corporate shit.



There were no planning considerations in the Coors bar. That was a purely Parks and licencing matter.


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## Tricky Skills (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> The Evening Standard have gone ahead with the feature but, being the shitty Standard, omitted to cite their source.
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...building-in-brixton-town-centre-10003309.html



Good old Jacko. Somehow managing to shoehorn his Nu Labour enterprise agenda into a news story about a bloody advertising board:

"Brixton is a thriving town centre attracting people from all over and Lambeth and beyond. The council is working hard to support job creation and ensure local people feel the benefits of the big changes the area is experiencing."


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> I'm interested in big developments and changes to the town centre - I don't want to hear about every house extension. It would be horrible if U75 became any sort of Lambeth council 'portal' as someone said above.


I've no interest in that happening either. I did state earlier that I'd be only interested in having the major planning applications listed here.


editor said:


> I could think of an easy way: a new sub forum is set up here for Lambeth to post up major planning applications


Incidentally, there's now 267 public comments on Lambeth's site, with the article on Buzz attracting 2.6k page views to date, generating nearly 700 clickthroughs to the Lambeth planning document. Pretty good stuff, I reckon! I'll see if I can work out the stats for these boards later.


----------



## Manter (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> Now at 165 objections with Picturehouse adding theirs.


A couple of people have tagged me on Facebook saying Brixtonites should object- it's doing the rounds now. Good work getting the word out there


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 26, 2015)

If they can't be arsed providing an RSS feed or similar for their planning page, I'm pretty sure it would be easy to scrape the details and make one.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 26, 2015)

Manter said:


> A couple of people have tagged me on Facebook saying Brixtonites should object- it's doing the rounds now. Good work getting the word out there



Such is the uniform opposition, I'm starting to wonder whether the proposal has merit.


----------



## Manter (Jan 26, 2015)




----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Such is the uniform opposition, I'm starting to wonder whether the proposal has merit.


I'll admit I'm not sure how these things work, but surely some of this lot should have said something given the outcry?


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 26, 2015)

The Brixton Society has now submitted a comprehensive objection to the proposal. This has only appeared in the last few hours - probably as a result of the recent online publicity.

This whole process is beginning to look like a right old mess. The Council's own planning site lists local groups who are being consulted. Yet some of the main players don't even appear to know about the plans until the last minute?


----------



## Manter (Jan 26, 2015)

editor said:


> The Evening Standard have gone ahead with the feature but, being the shitty Standard, omitted to cite their source.
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...building-in-brixton-town-centre-10003309.html


how on earth does a billboard create jobs?  Someone believes their own spin


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## leanderman (Jan 26, 2015)

Manter said:


> how on earth does a billboard create jobs?



With LEDs, you don't even need to change the lightbulbs.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 26, 2015)

Comments now passed the 300 mark


----------



## Rushy (Jan 26, 2015)

Quite a movement.

Only read a few comments but my favorite so far:



> Brixton is fine the way it is it doesn't need capitalism all over the place.
> 
> You may be interested to know that I am 10.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 26, 2015)

Inclined to call Chris Pattison of Mayfair-based Turnberry Planning tomorrow to ask him whether his scheme is a wind-up - or whether he felt he had any chance of success.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 26, 2015)

You've got to wonder if not Brixton, then where? There is probably a budget for this bloody awful project. Not in my back yard etc, but I can't but help think that it might be forced upon another community - and perhaps one that isn't as vocal as Brixton has been over the past day or so.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Inclined to call Chris Pattison of Mayfair-based Turnberry Planning tomorrow to ask him whether his scheme is a wind-up - or whether he felt he *had* any chance of success.


The committee hearing hasn't happened yet has it?


----------



## leanderman (Jan 26, 2015)

teuchter said:


> The committee hearing hasn't happened yet has it?



Do you think it can be approved?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Do you think it can be approved?


I think the likelihood of it being approved now is unchanged from the likelihood of it being approved prior to the objections being raised, and that the actions of a planning committee can never be predicted with absolute certainty.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jan 26, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Do you think it can be approved?


There's no way it can be approved. They wouldn't be able to make it robust enough to stand up to things bumping into it, like rain drops, pigeons or bricks.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I think the likelihood of it being approved now is unchanged from the likelihood of it being approved prior to the objections being raised, and that the actions of a planning committee can never be predicted with absolute certainty.


Do you believe that 354 objections in under 24 hours - plus major press coverage - will have absolutely zero impact on the council's decision?


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

Misty Miller was fantastic at the Windmill tonight.


----------



## han (Jan 27, 2015)

Shame she's not called Windy Miller.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 27, 2015)

The malcontents have once again put their egos above the best interests of Brixton and this Board. Their collective cry of victim hood is a distortion of deluded minds. Tory boy marched them up to the top of the hill and will have to march them down again.

This Board, over the past 48 hours, has provided a voice to locals opposed to that hideous advertising board, that in itself is a stunning victory for local democracy.


----------



## Manter (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> Do you believe that 354 objections in under 24 hours - plus major press coverage - will have absolutely zero impact on the council's decision?


It's Lambeth.,,, who knows what games are being played behind the scenes and what quid pro quo is involved. I don't think he's saying we (300+ objectors) should be ignored, just that Lambeth might, depending in what they are up to.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> Do you believe that 354 objections in under 24 hours - plus major press coverage - will have absolutely zero impact on the council's decision?


As several Urbs posted before there were any objections at all, the application did not really have a chance anyway. So in effect, he is correct.

The 0 to 350 in a day is never the less quite an outstanding and heart warming response. I wonder how many times that had occurred in the past? It shows people are listening and are willing to respond. 

It's not the first time a controversial application has been covered in depth on here e.g. The Canterbury, so why has the response been so very huge (even before ES coverage)? I hope similar response could be achieved in response to the Your Town Hall (puke) tower, but I don't think it will connect in the same way. 

The Golfrate visual probably contributed hugely to the reaction. It made it a very simple proposal to understand and very eye-catching. I wonder what the reaction would have been had it been a black and white line drawing? It makes me think that alternative visuals would be a powerful tool for raising support for an objection, and for submitting an objection.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> Do you believe that 354 objections in under 24 hours - plus major press coverage - will have absolutely zero impact on the council's decision?


Maybe I have too much faith in the planning committee not being completely nuts.

I've just had a good laugh reading the covering letter for the application.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2015)

Rushy said:


> It made it a very simple proposal to understand and very eye-catching.


A bit of an own goal for the applicants, really.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 27, 2015)

teuchter said:


> A bit of an own goal for the applicants, really.


Absolutely my thoughts. And GOLFRATE shown on the screen. Guaranteed to get a response. Whoever commissioned /approved that image needs their judgement questioned!

[ETA I am confusing someone's retouch with the original! ]


----------



## Manter (Jan 27, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Absolutely my thoughts. And GOLFRATE shown on the screen. Guaranteed to get a response. Whoever commissioned /approved that image needs their judgement questioned!


Makes me wonder if there is something else buried in the database somewhere and that is designed to draw fire to distract from it. But I may be crediting everyone with unlikely levels of cunning....


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2015)

I'm wondering if this application is in some way a softener for a subsequent smaller one.


----------



## colacubes (Jan 27, 2015)

teuchter said:


> I'm wondering if this application is in some way a softener for a subsequent smaller one.



That's my thinking too.


----------



## colacubes (Jan 27, 2015)

ION I think work has started on the hotel above Woolies.  As of yesterday the CHL end of Electric Lane is completely blocked off and there was a great big truck there lifting stuff about.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 27, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Maybe I have too much faith in the planning committee not being completely nuts.
> 
> I've just had a good laugh reading the covering letter for the application.



The letter is priceless - what a chancer!


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Absolutely my thoughts. And GOLFRATE shown on the screen.


Where is that image?


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

colacubes said:


> ION I think work has started on the hotel above Woolies.  As of yesterday the CHL end of Electric Lane is completely blocked off and there was a great big truck there lifting stuff about.


Yep. Looks like it's going to  be blocked off for a while.


----------



## colacubes (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> Yep. Looks like it's going to  be blocked off for a while.
> 
> View attachment 66915



They've got permission for a road closure for the next 15 months so I can't see it being finished for a little while.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

colacubes said:


> They've got permission for a road closure for the next 15 months so I can't see it being finished for a little while.


Blimey. Have you got a link for that so I can post up a feature?


----------



## colacubes (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> Blimey. Have you got a link for that so I can post up a feature?



It's on the Lambeth website - I came across it while looking for something else:

http://lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/pts-ElectricLaneTempRoadClosure_0.pdf

My understanding is that it won't be closed for that whole period though.  Only chunks of it.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 27, 2015)

colacubes said:


> They've got permission for a road closure for the next 15 months so I can't see it being finished for a little while.


Will hardly make a difference!


----------



## Rushy (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> Where is that image?


Indeed - I have conflated the two. Nice touch. I guess that helps prove my point.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Indeed - I have conflated the two. Nice touch. I guess that helps prove my point.


"Nice touch"? 

I've seen the amended image that was retweeted but then thought that perhaps other official images had been released, hence my question. But if you just made a mistake, that clears it up.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> "Nice touch"?
> 
> I've seen the amended image that was retweeted but then thought that perhaps other official images had been released, hence my question. But if you just made a mistake, that clears it up.


I assumed it was your retouch!


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

Rushy said:


> I assumed it was your retouch!


If it was my work, I would have included a much spicier message.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> If it was my work, I would have included a much spicier message.


I think Golfrate conjures up spicy messages for many - as well as a certain arrogance - whilst being publishable - very effective.


----------



## passivejoe (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> Do you believe that 354 objections in under 24 hours - plus major press coverage - will have absolutely zero impact on the council's decision?



If they can't provide a good reason within the Planning guidance and framework, then they're useless objections. Just because some nimby says 'I don't want it' doesn't make the problem go away, nor should it. 

Planning Guidance and local planning policy exist to guide planning officers in making their decisions. They then make a recommendation to the committee based purely on policy and the committee can then approve or refuse the application by vote. If the committee members take non-policy matters into account in their decision or they misapply the policy (and they have to give a reason for their decision) then the application can be appealed. If the planning officer recommends approval and the committee vote against (most often they go against the recommendation for political reasons), then the applicant can appeal and Lambeth council is forced to defend its decision (which is difficult if the planning officer actually recommended approval but then has to defend refusal) at a cost of around £50,000. 

Planning officers take all public objections into account but they also know that Nimbys often come out in force and whip up local news hysteria whilst the majority who don't care or who may in fact support the application just stay silent so objections have to be understood in that context. Really, 300 objections is very few. 

Its an absurd system and most planning committee members don't bother reading the officers reports / recommendations until the morning of the committee. The planning system required applicants to jump through hoops, spend a fortune on independent consultants and consultations and prove their proposal is supported by all planning guidance (which I think is completely appropriate and correct) but then committee members often ignore the reports, they don't read the application, they ignore the officers recommendation and vote with the leaning of the local rag and 'nothing better to do' opposition group.


----------



## pesh (Jan 27, 2015)

leanderman said:


> With LEDs, you don't even need to change the lightbulbs.


hammerite isn't as easy to get off LED walls as it is estate agents windows, and you need to change a lot more than just the lightbulbs. it still amazes me nobody has stolen an LED billboard yet. they're worth about £100K+.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

passivejoe said:


> If they can't provide a good reason within the Planning guidance and framework, then they're useless objections. Just because some nimby says 'I don't want it' doesn't make the problem go away, nor should it.


Most of the objections aren't saying just that though: they're raising very valid points. I don't think the majority of objections are NIMBY led. The proposal is simply inappropriate for a conservation area, it covers a locally listed building and has the potential to distract drivers on a very busy junction.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2015)

passivejoe said:


> If they can't provide a good reason within the Planning guidance and framework, then they're useless objections. Just because some nimby says 'I don't want it' doesn't make the problem go away, nor should it.
> 
> Planning Guidance and local planning policy exist to guide planning officers in making their decisions. They then make a recommendation to the committee based purely on policy and the committee can then approve or refuse the application by vote. If the committee members take non-policy matters into account in their decision or they misapply the policy (and they have to give a reason for their decision) then the application can be appealed. If the planning officer recommends approval and the committee vote against (most often they go against the recommendation for political reasons), then the applicant can appeal and Lambeth council is forced to defend its decision (which is difficult if the planning officer actually recommended approval but then has to defend refusal) at a cost of around £50,000.
> 
> ...


This is all largely true but planning policy is written in such a way that there is always room for "interpretation" aka subjective judgement. This means that a planning committee and the planning officers can disagree without either of them having mis-applied policy in a clear cut way. Public opinion can swing a decision within that grey zone.

I agree that many comments will be made that don't have anything to do with planning policy and rules. However if the planning officer is doing their job properly then they will sift through them to identify which ones do make comments that are relevant and use this to inform their decision.


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## CH1 (Jan 27, 2015)

The billboard ads I remember in prominent sites Lambeth Planning department have a tendency to refuse planning permission without even going to committee - then when they the advertisers ignore the decision and put their billboards up anyway it takes several years before enforcement do anything about it.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

CH1 said:


> The billboard ads I remember in prominent sites Lambeth Planning department have a tendency to refuse planning permission without even going to committee - then when they the advertisers ignore the decision and put their billboards up anyway it takes several years before enforcement do anything about it.


Oh yes. Now that's something I'm all too familiar with: Illegal Coldharbour Lane billboard


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## passivejoe (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> Most of the objections aren't saying just that though: they're raising very valid points. I don't think the majority of objections are NIMBY led. The proposal is simply inappropriate for a conservation area, it covers a locally listed building and has the potential to distract drivers on a very busy junction.



Sorry, didn't mean to suggest they weren't valid. I think the scheme is ridiculous and objected. Just pointing out that the objections really need to have merit within the policy.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

Some pics from last night. I like the Windmill. 












Misty Miller launches Independent Venue Week at the Brixton Windmill – photos


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## passivejoe (Jan 27, 2015)

Yes true. Although my experience with planning committee members is that many like to play to a crowd and if an application has objectors attending the hearing, they like to grandstand and can make the most absurd speeches that make a mockery of the process.

Admittedly my experiences have neither been in London nor had results particularly favourable for me and my employers.


----------



## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

Excellent piece here: A Tale of Two Cities: Lambeth Finds Inspiration for its Housing Campaigns


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## duncanlaw (Jan 27, 2015)

Just wrote this objection on planning website
I write this in a personal capacity as a Brixton resident of 27 years standing AND, as chair, on behalf of Transition Town Brixton whose mission is to build community resilience and a strong local economy to face a changing world.

This is a hugely inappropriate proposal and should be rejected. 

It completely obscures one of the finest buildings on the Brixton high street, the 30s facade of the Prince of Wales pub.  This is in a conservation area and completely obliterates the character of this bit of it. It is truly hideous! It represents a huge step in the march of clone-town Brixton. Already the gateway to Brixton is Macdonalds and KFC, with Costa, Cafe Nero, Starbucks, Sainsbury's and Iceland guarding the tube station.

I note that Maggi Hambling's Heron is absent from the mock-up which argues that the designers have not looked carefully at the place they are designing for. How will this great symbol of Lambeth's public art programme of place-making look above this anonymous corporate puppet facade?

It will create light pollution in an already over-lit centre of Brixton and could distract drivers at a complicated and dangerous junction. As a cyclist I already feel invisible and disregarded there. Huge light displays will only increase this effect.

The centre of Brixton is not a bit like Piccadilly Circus and should be preserved from that fate at all costs. Brixton is proud of and will increasingly rely on the strength of its independent local businesses. This will do nothing to help or advertise them and will not create local jobs!

This represents 'business as usual' that centralises wealth away from communities towards corporates and the 99% towards the 1%. It is not what Brixton should stand for as an early adopter policies to support energy efficiency, a strong local economy, renewable energy, local food and all that Transition to a good low energy future requires.

Who-ever has created the visual mock up seems to have successfully undermined the case for installing it. We do not need more vast advertising for the equivalent of 'sugar coated' products, provided by big corporations with no interest in the health or well-being of local people.


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## duncanlaw (Jan 27, 2015)

Does anyone have a contact for Maggi Hambling? I bet she'd create a stink and publicly embarrass Lambeth into rejecting it.


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## CH1 (Jan 27, 2015)

duncanlaw said:


> Does anyone have a contact for Maggi Hambling? I bet she'd create a stink and publicly embarrass Lambeth into rejecting it.


She might - but whoever said in their objection that she designed the Prince of Wales feathers is wrong. She designed the weather vane on top of the building.


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## teuchter (Jan 27, 2015)

It's really not necessary 

The heron thing is a bit crap and inappropriate for the building anyway in my opinion.


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## CH1 (Jan 27, 2015)

teuchter said:


> It's really not necessary
> The heron thing is a bit crap and inappropriate for the building anyway in my opinion.


Down to earth with a bump?


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## Rushy (Jan 27, 2015)

The Heron is ok. I quite like it. The guff spouted by the artist about Herne (heron) Hill in an attempt to  shoe horn her usual subject matter into some sort of local relevance was nauseating. Please don't get a quote from her !


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## Greebo (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> Excellent piece here: A Tale of Two Cities: Lambeth Finds Inspiration for its Housing Campaigns


As expected, given that Unite was hosting it, there was a lot of emphasis on the unions and persuading people to join them. 

Which is fine as far as it goes, when campaigning for workers' rights.  IMHO it's less useful when you're talking about housing estates under threat, where a lot of people are past pension age, unemployed, or unable to work.  Unite allows unemployed etc people to join (now), but asking them for help isn't the same (yet) as what you think of when going to a union rep at work.

From the three New Era tenants, a lot was said about unity, keep talking to other tenants about everything you do and every little win, stand firm, recognise that it will be bloody hard work, use your contacts, get local celebs on side if you can, embarrass the hell out of the landlord (stick to non violence as far as possible).  They were great, I'm not sure that everyone can achieve the same, but worth a go.

Representation from the Guinness Trust estate (no idea where this is, sorry):  The housing association there is dead set against even a tenants' council being formed, and refuses to let the hall there be used for meetings associated with it.  Tenants are struggling to get together and protest, even more than you'd expect because some live in fear of being deported.  This coming Monday afternoon (2nd Feb between 3 and 4pm?), if any of you were to hang around in front of it, your supportive and peaceful presence would be very welcome.

An employee of St Mungos spoke about how they got on with their strike (a win) and the need for solidarity between the people living in accommodation and those staffing it.  He emphasised the need to take a wider view - this isn't just about a handful of shelter staff, or a few estates; similar tactics are being used right across London.

A bit of what I'm trying to see as tough love from Green candidate Rashid Nicks for Brixton - maybe that's just his thing.  Reminders about marching on Boris this weekend.  Slight flurry of networking at the end.


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## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

Greebo said:


> Representation from the Guinness Trust estate (no idea where this is, sorry):


It's around the back of the Moorlands Estate:







Some background:

Guinness Trust, Somerleyton Rd, Brixton fights the landlords
Guinness trust estate campaign continues in Brixton [video]
Twitterstorm highlights concern over Guinness Trust regeneration of Loughborough Park Estate
Brixton Guinness Trust anti-evictions protest in photos


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## Greebo (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks for that, it's just that not everyone knows where every estate  in Lambeth is.


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## CH1 (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> It's around the back of the Moorlands Estate:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think that will be an historic photo very shortly. As far as I recall the tenants hall block, including the distinctive clock and logo as due to be demolished.

It's a pity there currently is no concept of "development stress" applicable to (social) housing estates, similar to the one designating streets where conversions into flats are not permitted.


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## teuchter (Jan 27, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I think that will be an historic photo very shortly. As far as I recall the tenants hall block, including the distinctive clock and logo as due to be demolished.


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## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I think that will be an historic photo very shortly. As far as I recall the tenants hall block, including the distinctive clock and logo as due to be demolished.
> 
> It's a pity there currently is no concept of "development stress" applicable to (social) housing estates, similar to the one designating streets where conversions into flats are not permitted.


I'd better get over there soon and grab some pics before it goes.


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## brixtonblade (Jan 27, 2015)

Some anti-abortion folks givimg out leaflets outside Marie Stopes on Brixton Hill.  Suprised they're allowed to.


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## DietCokeGirl (Jan 27, 2015)

brixtonblade said:


> Some anti-abortion folks givimg out leaflets outside Marie Stopes on Brixton Hill.  Suprised they're allowed to.


IIRC, the police can 'request' them to move a certain distance, so they're not blocking the entrance. Usually a few loud and enthusiastic pro-choice protesters are a much better deterrent.


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## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

439 objections to Brixton's mini-Piccadilly Circus now registered on Lambeth's site.


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## DietCokeGirl (Jan 27, 2015)

After neon-gate, Brixton Blog are now running a story about this planning application - http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=NGMCP2BO0GI00 plans to turn old Granada Cab office into restaurant, apparently to become a Thai chain I've not heard of before called Rosa's.


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## innit (Jan 27, 2015)

Rosa's have restaurants near brick lane and in soho. The food's ok, not a patch on khao Sarn,  but wildly overpriced. Hard lines on Baan Thai to have a Thai chain opening up directly opposite them.


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## Thimble Queen (Jan 27, 2015)

Yum-D might suffer as well being only a few doors away


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## Tolpuddle (Jan 27, 2015)

brixtonblade said:


> Some anti-abortion folks givimg out leaflets outside Marie Stopes on Brixton Hill.  Suprised they're allowed to.



In some parts of London councils charge for a licence to distribute free literature, not surprised Lambeth can't be arsed to put it in place, but quite surprised they've missed an opportunity to extort money.


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## CH1 (Jan 27, 2015)

DietCokeGirl said:


> After neon-gate, Brixton Blog are now running a story about this planning application - http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=NGMCP2BO0GI00 plans to turn old Granada Cab office into restaurant, apparently to become a Thai chain I've not heard of before called Rosa's.


I haven't read the Brixton Blog article yet, but I have looked at the application.
Rosa's is a chain of six restaurants, HQ in Shadwell. Registered company apparently bona fide.

More interesting though is the applicant - apparently some sort of estate agent - who calls themselves on their Planning Statement "Brixton Heritage Ltd". The guy in charge (a Mr Julian Pycraft) is a director of City Heritage Ltd and a couple of other companies based in Mayfair plus about 10 dissolved companies.
There is no Brixton Heritage Ltd listed at Companies House at the moment. 
Seems to me this application is a blagging job where the applicant is pretending to be concerned and local.

Please note someone tried applying to have a restaurant there in 1998 and Lambeth turned them down. They appealed and the planning inspector confirmed Lambeth's refusal.

The present application is deliberately designed to avoid the reasons for refusal in 1998/9.

I will be objecting.


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## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I haven't read the Brixton Blog article yet, but I have looked at the application.
> Rosa's is a chain of six restaurants, HQ in Shadwell. Registered company apparently bona fide.
> 
> More interesting though is the applicant - apparently some sort of estate agent - who calls themselves on their Planning Statement "Brixton Heritage Ltd". The guy in charge (a Mr Julian Pycraft) is a director of City Heritage Ltd and a couple of other companies based in Mayfair plus about 10 dissolved companies.
> ...


This was announced back in July, with Alex and Saiphin Moore being introduced as the people behind Rosa’s Thai Cafe and Julian Pycraft from Brixton Heritage Ltd being the Building owner.

They described themselves as "an independent neighbourhood restaurant business."

(Warning: new businesses talking about "neighbourhood" and "community" tend to set my eyebrow rising high!)


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## passivejoe (Jan 27, 2015)

CH1 said:


> The present application is deliberately designed to avoid the reasons for refusal in 1998/9.
> 
> I will be objecting.



Surely their designing of the application to omit the previous mistakes is a good thing? Having looked at the current and proposed front elevations, I can't see what's there is to oppose. Or have I missed something?


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## CH1 (Jan 27, 2015)

editor said:


> This was announced back in July, with Alex and Saiphin Moore being introduced as the people behind Rosa’s Thai Cafe and Julian Pycraft from Brixton Heritage Ltd being the Building owner.
> They described themselves as "an independent neighbourhood restaurant business."
> (Warning: new businesses talking about "neighbourhood" and "community" tend to set my eyebrow rising high!)


Why is Brixton Heritage Ltd not on the company register (yet?)?
I can't see that Mr Pycraft would be the freeholder - unless he also owns Connaught Mansions.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 27, 2015)

teuchter said:


> It's really not necessary
> 
> The heron thing is a bit crap and inappropriate for the building anyway in my opinion.





Rushy said:


> The Heron is ok. I quite like it. The guff spouted by the artist about Herne (heron) Hill in an attempt to  shoe horn her usual subject matter into some sort of local relevance was nauseating. Please don't get a quote from her !



Philistines! Its as relevant as the foxes and cherries on Electric ave. I like it.
I enjoy looking up, to check which way the wind is blowing when I go past on the bus in the mornings.

Maggi Hambling is a great woman who would no doubt have something blunt and pithy to say. If anyone could get her to comment it would be interesting. (though she may like LED displays for all we know)


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## CH1 (Jan 27, 2015)

passivejoe said:


> Surely their designing of the application to omit the previous mistakes is a good thing? Having looked at the current and proposed front elevations, I can't see what's there is to oppose. Or have I missed something?


There was an issue raised in 1998 about the effect on the roof terrace. The new application does not have extraction to the roof terrace.

In a way you are right - unless you take the view that Coldharbour Lane is getting like the indoor market - with restaurants and take aways crowding out other types of shop.

Not to mention distrubance etc. And nobody can say that Connaught Mansions wasn't there before these new attractions.


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## swampster (Jan 27, 2015)

Have a look at this: http://cityheritageltd.com


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## CH1 (Jan 27, 2015)

swampster said:


> Have a look at this: http://cityheritageltd.com


Thanks. So do you think Julian was calling his company "Brixton Heritage Ltd" as a way of flying under the radar? Or what?


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## swampster (Jan 27, 2015)

I don't think he's particularly hidden. If you google his name you come up with all sorts of stuff – including what is probably his FB profile.


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## CH1 (Jan 27, 2015)

swampster said:


> I don't think he's particularly hidden. If you google his name you come up with all sorts of stuff – including what is probably his FB profile.


I didn't really mean that. I meant that if he had applied as "City Heritage Ltd" it automatically flags the case up as non-local and gentrifying to people like me!


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## CH1 (Jan 27, 2015)

"City Heritage Ltd, owned by Julian Pycraft, is a niche development company which specialises in regenerating obsolete commercial buildings and converting them into useable space for London's thriving leisure and business communities."
Fulham Road Rosa's: http://www.daviscofferlyons.co.uk/news/detail/rosa-s-secures-fulham-road-site/1072#.VMgQVFV1-uY


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## editor (Jan 27, 2015)

swampster said:


> Have a look at this: http://cityheritageltd.com


Ooooh how I love Mayfair property investment and development companies doing their thing in my street.


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## Jangleballix (Jan 27, 2015)

duncanlaw said:


> Does anyone have a contact for Maggi Hambling? I bet she'd create a stink and publicly embarrass Lambeth into rejecting it.



I emailed her agent yesterday, no response as yet. And it's a kingfisher not a heron.


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## swampster (Jan 27, 2015)

I guess that's why Maggi calls it a heron. http://www.maggihambling.com/2013/09/the-brixton-heron-2/


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## leanderman (Jan 27, 2015)

swampster said:


> I guess that's why Maggi calls it a heron. http://www.maggihambling.com/2013/09/the-brixton-heron-2/



Was about to use that as a quiz question until I checked the same page as you


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## Rushy (Jan 27, 2015)

Jangleballix said:


> I emailed her agent yesterday, no response as yet. And it's a kingfisher not a heron.


Easy mistake to make. I always said it looked more like a kingfisher or a kookaburra than a heron. But it's definitely _meant_ to be a heron.



> herons have been in my work all along, so I conceived this idea for the Brixton heron weather vane and then discovered later that there used to be a heronry on the site. The Brixton fish markets are there and Herne Hill derives its name from heron Hill, so it was all quite remarkable how all the history all fitted together.”



Remarkable indeed, Maggi.


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## CH1 (Jan 28, 2015)

Since yr on form tonight Rushy I felt like sharing this explanation of how Effra derives from Heathrow:

*THE MANOR OF HEATHROW*
(fn. 216) The name “Knight's” suggests that the area was formerly occupied by the Knight family, who held much land in Lambeth in the sixteenth century. The Manor passed into the possession of Thomas Wiseman and after his death to his son Thomas. (fn. 217) The latter was a Jesuit priest in Rome and by 1594 he had sold the Manor to William Wiseman who in his turn had sold it to Francis Fitch. (fn. 218) It was subsequently acquired by Sir Francis Goston (fn. 216) in whose family's ownership it remained until 1658 when Francis Gofton conveyed it to John Scaldwell. (fn. 219) By his will, which was proved in 1679, Scaldwell left the Manor and three adjoining acres of copyhold of Lambeth Manor to his wife Dorothy for life and then to his grandson Thomas Fox. (fn. 148) No later reference to this Manor has been discovered, but by tracing the descent of the adjoining copyhold in the Court Books the position of Heathrow has been identified. (fn. 220) It comprised some 70 acres south of Coldharbour Lane on the east side of Effra Road and the north-east side of Dulwich Road. The parcel of land now covered by Geneva and somerleyton Roads may also have been part of Heathrow Manor; on the Lambeth Manor Inclosure map of 1810 it is shown as freehold land belonging to W. Angell. Between 1791 and 1806 Robert Stone bought Heathrow in four parts; it was then known as Effra Farm. (fn. 221) The value of the land was greatly enhanced by the layout of Effra Road in 1810 by the Lambeth Inclosure Commissioners, and again a few years later by the building of St. Matthew's Church. Stone divided the northern part of the area into plots and granted long leases. A few detached houses (none of which now survives) were then built. Robert Stone died in 1820, leaving a widow and seven children, all minors. His estate was so heavily burdened with debts that his executors refused to act, and his affairs were finally settled under Chancery supervision by a private Act of Parliament. (fn. 222) Some 33 acres were sold by auction in 1824. The rest of the property was afterwards let on building leases and sold at another auction in 1826. (fn. 223) The southern portion of the estate was bought by the Westminster Freehold Land Society in 1855, (fn. 224) and what are now Effra Parade, Chaucer Road, Spenser Road, Shakespeare Road and Milton Road were laid out on a much humbler scale than the northern portion of the estate.


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## Gramsci (Jan 28, 2015)

Greebo said:


> As expected, given that Unite was hosting it, there was a lot of emphasis on the unions and persuading people to join them.
> 
> Which is fine as far as it goes, when campaigning for workers' rights.  IMHO it's less useful when you're talking about housing estates under threat, where a lot of people are past pension age, unemployed, or unable to work.  Unite allows unemployed etc people to join (now), but asking them for help isn't the same (yet) as what you think of when going to a union rep at work.
> 
> ...



Unite Community is a positive step forward for Union.  The New Era tenants said they got a lot of support from Unite. Printing leaflets etc. Unite Community membership ( £12 a year) gives access to advice service from Union. Unite have set up paid organisers to support local communities in campaigning. Its not set up to tell communities what to do but to offer practical assistance when needed.

Guinness Trust "Short Life" are under threat. GT will not rehouse them despite the fact that they have been on the estate for years in some cases.

Petition here

Facebook page

I was disappointed that Professor Doreen Massey was ill. As I wanted to hear from her.

New Era. Yes they are very good. But having been through years of lobbying etc and finally losing I did feel that some in audience were getting a bit carried away. Struggle and activism is not the be and end all of life. Nor is it necessarily a good in itself. Its not something everyone can cope with. And why should they? Not to criticise New Era residents but did feel at some points that I was getting a inspirational motivation lesson. And from Rashid as well. 

Why I was disappointed that Prof Massey was not there. Wanted to hear her views on housing.


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## steeeve (Jan 28, 2015)

Work starts demolishing Mango Landin' this morning


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## editor (Jan 28, 2015)

steeeve said:


> Work starts demolishing Mango Landin' this morning


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## superfly101 (Jan 28, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Why is Brixton Heritage Ltd not on the company register (yet?)?
> I can't see that Mr Pycraft would be the freeholder - unless he also owns Connaught Mansions.



Where are you getting that name from?  My 1st thoughts were a_ 'trading as'_ name but..... the use of the Ltd is not allowed. 

See here  http://blog.thecompanywarehouse.co.uk/2010/02/18/trading-as-company-and-business-names/


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## leanderman (Jan 28, 2015)

steeeve said:


> Work starts demolishing Mango Landin' this morning


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 28, 2015)

steeeve said:


> Work starts demolishing Mango Landin' this morning



But the open decks night now lives on at Market House once a month...


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## Maharani (Jan 28, 2015)

I've just eaten in 'meat liquor' in the village. I feel the £7.00 halloumi burger was a bit over-priced and lacked salad. I was also a bit miffed that the menu describes it as fried when it was battered and deep fried. I feel like I've had my treat for the week now so may have to forgo pizza this evening. I'm a little cross to say the least.


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## Maharani (Jan 28, 2015)

leanderman said:


> View attachment 66952


What's happening to ML?


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## Maharani (Jan 28, 2015)

Ms T said:


> Tumbles Launderette on Railton Rd -- which closed suddenly before Christmas -- is reopening in new premises a few doors down the road. Apparently they had big problems with their landlord involving bailiffs. But they still have my dry-cleaning, which is good, and that of lots of other people! They really need to put a proper sign on their door...


Fab name: tumbles


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## editor (Jan 28, 2015)

Maharani said:


> I've just eaten in 'meat liquor' in the village. I feel the £7.00 halloumi burger was a bit over-priced and lacked salad. I was also a bit miffed that the menu describes it as fried when it was battered and deep fried. I feel like I've had my treat for the week now so may have to forgo pizza this evening. I'm a little cross to say the least.


Drop them a line and complain.


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## innit (Jan 28, 2015)

editor said:


>


I had some great times at Mango Landin' (and some messy times at Babushka before it) - I'll miss it. I will always remember it as "Breastfeeding pub of the year 2006" (it won an award), I would have liked to take my baby there; I'm sad that won't ever happen. 

The bar staff were always interesting though - the queues used to get totally out of control. And I'll never forget the margarita made with lime cordial...


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## CH1 (Jan 28, 2015)

superfly101 said:


> Where are you getting that name from?  My 1st thoughts were a_ 'trading as'_ name but..... the use of the Ltd is not allowed.
> See here  http://blog.thecompanywarehouse.co.uk/2010/02/18/trading-as-company-and-business-names/


Thanks for the guidance. It is not a case of "Trading as" though - the cover of the planning statement is here:


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## Rushy (Jan 28, 2015)

innit said:


> I had some great times at Mango Landin' (and some messy times at Babushka before it) - I'll miss it. I will always remember it as "Breastfeeding pub of the year 2006" (it won an award), I would have liked to take my baby there; I'm sad that won't ever happen.
> 
> The bar staff were always interesting though - the queues used to get totally out of control. And I'll never forget the margarita made with lime cordial...


It was pretty inconsistent after Suzie took her hands off. I became less inclined to go there over time only because there were more reliable places to go. Best nights had there were when you happened to be passing on your way home, saw it was busy and thought, I'll just pop in for one...

Some fun times had but I don't miss it if I'm honest. Glad that it's not going to stand empty any longer. Hope we get a decent cafe/restaurant/ relaxed bar there. Uh huh.


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## steeeve (Jan 28, 2015)

Rushy said:


> It was pretty inconsistent after Suzie took her hands off. I became less inclined to go there over time only because there were more reliable places to go. Best nights had there were when you happened to be passing on your way home, saw it was busy and thought, I'll just pop in for one...
> 
> Some fun times had but I don't miss it if I'm honest. Glad that it's not going to stand empty any longer. Hope we get a decent cafe/restaurant/ relaxed bar there. Uh huh.



Wasn't the planning for retail on the ground floor? I.e probably another Sainsburys


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## Rushy (Jan 28, 2015)

steeeve said:


> Wasn't the planning for retail on the ground floor? I.e probably another Sainsburys


Yep.


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## teuchter (Jan 28, 2015)

My best night out at Mango Landing - was fun until I came to at dawn in some kind of outhouse behind Josephine Avenue with my shoes taken off and phone stolen and subsequently used for calls to Afghanistan (if I recall correctly). Memories of the person I left ML with are very hazy but suggest the likely MO of their operation.

Was a good bar though.


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## CH1 (Jan 28, 2015)

According to the planning statement on 400/402 Coldharbour (former Granda Cabs) the developer held a consultation, and the 3rd point to emerge from this was:
*Would prefer to see a shop – the landlord explained that there has been
little interest from A1 operators in the unit, with the exception of a sex
shop. There has been interest from a bookmakers, but the landlord does
not feel that this would be the best use for the unit and would potentially
cause problems for residents.*

Was just thinking about the alleged toy return address rear of Brixton Cake Shop - for those in the know!


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## innit (Jan 28, 2015)

Rushy said:


> It was pretty inconsistent after Suzie took her hands off. I became less inclined to go there over time only because there were more reliable places to go. Best nights had there were when you happened to be passing on your way home, saw it was busy and thought, I'll just pop in for one...
> 
> Some fun times had but I don't miss it if I'm honest. Glad that it's not going to stand empty any longer. Hope we get a decent cafe/restaurant/ relaxed bar there. Uh huh.


It was my local for 8 years- I was attached. You're right though, things did slip (is Susie the well spoken women with twin girls?).

It would be great to have a new cafe or bar. I can't believe even sainsbury's would want a unit so close to Lambert Road - Tescos hopefully too busy closing stores to open new ones.


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## brixtonblade (Jan 28, 2015)

Used to go loads but went less amd less as I got the hump waiting 20 minutes for a pint in an almost empty bar whilst the bar staf faff with cocktails.


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## Rushy (Jan 28, 2015)

innit said:


> It was my local for 8 years- I was attached. You're right though, things did slip (is Susie the well spoken women with twin girls?).
> 
> It would be great to have a new cafe or bar. I can't believe even sainsbury's would want a unit so close to Lambert Road - Tescos hopefully too busy closing stores to open new ones.


Didn't know (or have forgotten) about her girls but yes, well spoken.


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## technical (Jan 28, 2015)

teuchter said:


> My best night out at Mango Landing - was fun until I came to at dawn in some kind of outhouse behind Josephine Avenue with my shoes taken off and phone stolen and subsequently used for calls to Afghanistan (if I recall correctly). Memories of the person I left ML with are very hazy but suggest the likely MO of their operation.
> 
> Was a good bar though.



Are you Robert Allenby?


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## Rushy (Jan 28, 2015)

technical said:


> Are you Robert Allenby?


Have you still got his wallet?


----------



## Maharani (Jan 28, 2015)

teuchter said:


> My best night out at Mango Landing - was fun until I came to at dawn in some kind of outhouse behind Josephine Avenue with my shoes taken off and phone stolen and subsequently used for calls to Afghanistan (if I recall correctly). Memories of the person I left ML with are very hazy but suggest the likely MO of their operation.
> 
> Was a good bar though.


Crikey


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 28, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> Unite Community is a positive step forward for Union.  The New Era tenants said they got a lot of support from Unite. Printing leaflets etc. Unite Community membership ( £12 a year) gives access to advice service from Union. Unite have set up paid organisers to support local communities in campaigning. Its not set up to tell communities what to do but to offer practical assistance when needed.
> 
> Guinness Trust "Short Life" are under threat. GT will not rehouse them despite the fact that they have been on the estate for years in some cases.
> 
> ...



Professor Massey is one of my favourite exponents of "human geography". Always has a good eye for power imbalances, too.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 28, 2015)

Maharani said:


> I've just eaten in 'meat liquor' in the village. I feel the £7.00 halloumi burger was a bit over-priced and lacked salad. I was also a bit miffed that the menu describes it as fried when it was battered and deep fried. I feel like I've had my treat for the week now so may have to forgo pizza this evening. I'm a little cross to say the least.


 Was that just deep fried hallumi in batter? or was it somehow made into some sort of burger?  sounds horrible either way.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 28, 2015)

Maharani said:


> I've just eaten in 'meat liquor' in the village. I feel the £7.00 halloumi burger was a bit over-priced and lacked salad. I was also a bit miffed that the menu describes it as fried when it was battered and deep fried. I feel like I've had my treat for the week now so may have to forgo pizza this evening. I'm a little cross to say the least.


What did they say when you complained?


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 28, 2015)

I'm in The Kings Head in Tooting. What a cracker of a pub. All dark wood and etched glass. Like the glass in the Canterbury but loads of it. It's between the youngs pub in tooting broadway and the wheatsheaf in tooting bec. Those pubs are inexplicably full while this, the best pub by far is very quiet except for a few local types. It's fucking huge too. Wonder how long before it's flats?


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I'm in The Kings Head in Tooting. What a cracker of a pub. All dark wood and etched glass. Like the glass in the Canterbury but loads of it. It's between the youngs pub in tooting broadway and the wheatsheaf in tooting bec. Those pubs are inexplicably full while this, the best pub by far is very quiet except for a few local types. It's fucking huge too. Wonder how long before it's flats?


You've probably accelerated that process by posting so enthusiastically about it.


----------



## Maharani (Jan 28, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> What did they say when you complained?


I haven't yet...


----------



## Maharani (Jan 28, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Was that just deep fried hallumi in batter? or was it somehow made into some sort of burger?  sounds horrible either way.


Actually it was nice, naughty but nice. It's just that it wasn't as described. Bit of misrep going on


----------



## Jangleballix (Jan 28, 2015)

swampster said:


> I guess that's why Maggi calls it a heron. http://www.maggihambling.com/2013/09/the-brixton-heron-2/


Oh alright then, it's a heron....still looks like a bloody kingfisher.


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2015)

Someone is selling a Brixton fridge magnet on eBay. I think this one is lovely. 

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brixton-fridge-magnet-se-/381130374012?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 28, 2015)

passivejoe said:


> Surely their designing of the application to omit the previous mistakes is a good thing? Having looked at the current and proposed front elevations, I can't see what's there is to oppose. Or have I missed something?



Changing to A3 , as central Brixton residents have realised over the years, can often lead to problems.

If the restaurant does not work out it could end up as another bar. As that would fit into the planning classification. Opening hours could be changed to late nights etc. Its happened at other places and then you get told its your fault for living in central Brixton. I think Connaught Mansions residents are right to oppose any further changes to A3 on their stretch on CHL.

I can understand why residents of Connaught Mansions are opposing this. As CH1 says in this case they were here first.

I am going to oppose it on basis that its yet a further loss of retail. There is enough on that stretch of street.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Jan 28, 2015)

Trying to think what I would like to see in that space. You know, realistically, given the rent's probably a bloody premium. Is Joy still empty, too? What would it be nice to see in those spaces?


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 28, 2015)

DietCokeGirl said:


> After neon-gate, Brixton Blog are now running a story about this planning application - http://planning.lambeth.gov.uk/onli...ils.do?activeTab=summary&keyVal=NGMCP2BO0GI00 plans to turn old Granada Cab office into restaurant, apparently to become a Thai chain I've not heard of before called Rosa's.



I know someone at Connaught Mansions and they all objected.

I have put these comments in:

I object to this as a local resident of Brixton. It is further loss of retail in Brixton. Retail should be protected as its an important part of Brixton. Brixton already has lots of restaurants and bars. Its imo saturated and a halt called to further changes to A3 from retail. This is to protect Brixton character as a shopping area. Brixton Village is now mainly eateries and restarants. So is Market Row. 

Coldharbour lane should be protected from encroachment of yet more restaurants and bars. Change to A3 could lead to problems in the future. Whilst the applicant states this will be a restaurent run by a specific Thai restaurant chain this may change in the future. Once it becomes A3 it could at some point end up as a bar. This has happened at other places. Even if planning set conditions licensing may give late license etc. This would lead to more noise and disturbance for local resients. As it is a restaurant will lead to more disturbance for residents. Brixton is not just a entertainment and shopping area an important part of it is its residential community. This is often forgotten.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 28, 2015)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Trying to think what I would like to see in that space. You know, realistically, given the rent's probably a bloody premium. Is Joy still empty, too? What would it be nice to see in those spaces?



I think the old Joy shop is going to be party  of the new Premier Inn


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 28, 2015)

Maharani said:


> I haven't yet...


I find in restaurants when you are unhappy the best time to complain is there and then. It's hard for them to make it right now when you are complaining anonymously on a message board. I also don't think it's fair on the restaurant.


----------



## swampster (Jan 28, 2015)

editor said:


> Someone is selling a Brixton fridge magnet on eBay. I think this one is lovely.
> 
> View attachment 66990
> 
> http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Brixton-fridge-magnet-se-/381130374012?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276



If it isn't Dave Thompson I hope they have permission.

http://www.davethompsonillustration.com/shop/brixton-london


----------



## Maharani (Jan 28, 2015)

ricbake said:


> I think the old Joy shop is going to be party  of the new Premier Inn


Premier Inn? WTF?


----------



## Maharani (Jan 28, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I find in restaurants when you are unhappy the best time to complain is there and then. It's hard for them to make it right now when you are complaining anonymously on a message board. I also don't think it's fair on the restaurant.


Sometimes you don't know until you've left. As I said it wasn't that the meal didn't taste nice, it did. I was thinking about it as I left in a hurry to go to another appointment that it wasn't what it said on the menu. I'm actually a very good, polite complainer and I think we need to do more of this to drive food standards higher!


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2015)

Maharani said:


> Premier Inn? WTF?


http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/hefty-premier-inn-hotel-coming-to-central-brixton.297101/


ricbake said:


> I think the old Joy shop is going to be party  of the new Premier Inn


The original planning permission doesn't cover the Joy space. That might have changed; I haven't checked.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 29, 2015)

Crispy said:


> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/hefty-premier-inn-hotel-coming-to-central-brixton.297101/
> 
> The original planning permission doesn't cover the Joy space. That might have changed; I haven't checked.



Pretty sure Joy as the entrance has been the plan for 18 months or so.


----------



## Crispy (Jan 29, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Pretty sure Joy as the entrance has been the plan for 18 months or so.




From the most recent approved ammendment to the scheme. Most of the Joy unit remains as retail. The hotel entrance is really quite small.



Red = Hotel
Blue = Retail
Green = Existing service bay & fire escape for the old Woolworths units


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

I unexpectedly ended up in the Bar Which Must Not Be Named tonight drinking with the guy who will almost certainly be the new owner. 

It's still the place that comes closest to the Brixton I moved into 20 years ago and it still - almost certainly - has the most mixed crowd of any bar in town.

There was a middle aged white guy MCing over ska and reggae tunes who sounded more Jamaican than many people I know who were born there,  and he went down a storm. I liked that. 

Oh and it was good to see a couple of Dulwich Hamlet scarves in there too


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 29, 2015)

?


----------



## Greebo (Jan 29, 2015)

Summary of the first part of the Council meeting (theme - increasing Lambeth's wealth) last night:
The council need to have 5 and 10 year plans instead of lurching from one pilot scheme to another.

More communication and cooperation between young people (and others looking for work), educators, training providers and employers, so that placements are there when needed, and people have a chance of getting ready in time to take up the work.

More needs to be done to encourage and nurture local businesses, including considering them for things like the cleaning contracts.

London Living Wage to be brought in as the standard minimum to be paid to anyone working for Lambeth or for any of their contractors. Zero hours contracts to be got rid of.

More fruit and veg needs to be grown locally, even if it's edible bus stops (or maybe lettuces on the roof of the new Town Hall).

Most of the cooperative council's claimed victories and achievements have bugger all to do with it (so said Tim Briggs, but not in those exact words). The same councillor apologised after some hefty prompting for getting his figures wrong misinterpreted at the previous meeting.

Comments about Matthew Bennet reminding Tim Briggs of a young goodlooking but not v upright citizen (whose name escapes me).

Councillor Gentry seems to think that people don't take what work is available and that jobseekers should be *encouraged* to commute to work by public transport.  Predictably, he also opined that local businesses were overburdened, that business rates should be waived, and other sweeteners (including heavier promotion of apprenticeships) given.

Social entrepreneurs if given the right support (including free/cheap pop up space for sessions of training or work) may well be able to provide a lot of long term sustainable employment in the area, without costing the council a lot.  Coments that Lambeth has plenty of buildings standing empty, which could be used at least for a few hours a day.  ie. the Duck Egg cafe came to an arrangement about daytime use of the bar opposite their original premises after the rent went up.

Repeated comments that work should be made more local and/or brought back in house - to save money and keep things efficient.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> There was a middle aged white guy MCing over ska and reggae tunes who sounded more Jamaican than many people I know who were born there,  and he went down a storm. I liked that.


Perhaps he was Jamaican?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 29, 2015)

David Rodigan?


----------



## passivejoe (Jan 29, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> Changing to A3 , as central Brixton residents have realised over the years, can often lead to problems.
> 
> If the restaurant does not work out it could end up as another bar. As that would fit into the planning classification. Opening hours could be changed to late nights etc. Its happened at other places and then you get told its your fault for living in central Brixton. I think Connaught Mansions residents are right to oppose any further changes to A3 on their stretch on CHL.
> 
> ...



OK, fair enough. I can see the progression from restaurant to late bar would be unwanted by local residents.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jan 29, 2015)

teuchter said:


> David Rodigan?


Judge Dread ?


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 29, 2015)

Boom Burger's owner:

http://www.tatler.com/bystander/events/2010/july/wimbledon#!/1916/image/2


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## snowy_again (Jan 29, 2015)

uk benzo said:


> Boom Burger's owner:
> 
> http://www.tatler.com/bystander/events/2010/july/wimbledon#!/1916/image/2



Was he at the queen's head?


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Perhaps he was Jamaican?


I was told he was a local lad. And very good he was too.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

uk benzo said:


> Boom Burger's owner:
> 
> http://www.tatler.com/bystander/events/2010/july/wimbledon#!/1916/image/2


*bites lip


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> Was he at the queen's head?


Unlikely to his scene, I'd expect.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

uk benzo said:


> Boom Burger's owner:
> 
> http://www.tatler.com/bystander/events/2010/july/wimbledon#!/1916/image/2


Small feature: 







Portobello Road’s Boom Burger bar comes to Brixton Station Road


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

Here's one for you pooch owners: 






Muddy Dog Challenge at Brockwell Park to raise money for Battersea Dogs & Cats Home


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Small feature:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Brixton Station Road is my favorite part of Brixton now, brilliant mix of shops and stalls. I think this place will be better than the chicken takeaway it replaces


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Brixton Station Road is my favorite part of Brixton now, brilliant mix of shops and stalls. I think this place will be better than the chicken takeaway it replaces


Don't you fear that the wonderful mix you speak of may be threatened with the introduction of entrepreneurs opening up new branches of fashionable outlets?


----------



## Rushy (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Here's one for you pooch owners:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Brilliant! 
(Is that Edward ?)


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Brilliant!
> (Is that Edward ?)


I don't who Edward is, but it's the pic that accompanied the press release (minus the caption). I think it's a great fund raising initiative.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Don't you fear that the wonderful mix you speak of may be threatened with the introduction of entrepreneurs opening up new branches of fashionable outlets?


I don't think it's automatically a bad thing that a fashionable outlet is moving in there and my initial response is to be optimistic. And anybody who opens a business could be described as an entrepreneurs really. 

In this case I think this shop will be an improvement on what was there before and makes the street even better.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> I don't who Edward is, but it's the pic that accompanied the press release (minus the caption). I think it's a great fund raising initiative.


Belongs to an eponymously named mutual acquaintance. Pretty sure those aren't his owners calves though.

My dog is from Battersea so we'll hopefully get involved.


----------



## han (Jan 29, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I don't think it's automatically a bad thing that a fashionable outlet is moving in there and my initial response is to be optimistic. And anybody who opens a business could be described as an entrepreneurs really.
> 
> In this case I think this shop will be an improvement on what was there before and makes the street even better.


The street can probably get away with one chain, but my worry is that the more of these kind of shops that arrive, the more the delicate balance of what keeps it special will be ruined.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

han said:


> The street can probably get away with one chain, but my worry is that the more of these kind of shops that arrive, the more the delicate balance of what keeps it special will be ruined.


Sadly, I can't say I share his upbeat optimism for the street's future.


----------



## han (Jan 29, 2015)

The big threat is rising rents. Once local businesses can't afford the rent, the chains can move in and change the landscape forever.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

han said:


> The big threat is rising rents. Once local businesses can't afford the rent, the chains can move in and change the landscape forever.


Indeed. And once the trendy and well connected bars move in, pressure inevitably grows on the smaller businesses. I've worried about Station Road for ages. It's one of the last authentic and unspoilt stretches left in Brixton.

BTW, it appears that the self styled 'JoshyBOOM' of Boom Burgers is the grandson of Tory peer Lord Peter Rees.


----------



## T & P (Jan 29, 2015)

In this particular case, I'd venture that _anything_ would be an improvement and preferable to the chicken takeaway outlet it replaces (if it is the type of shitty, zero welfare, zero quality fried chicken takeaway shop that plagues every high street, town and city in the land).


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

Digisheds tweeted Buzz to tell us that the Brixton Regeneration team are "sorting out the "High Street".
The picture shows one person holding an iPad and another with a large piece of paper. I don't know what's going on. 



I've never heard of Digisheds, neither do I understand their mission statement: 


> Where people become employable, enterprising and socially innovative. Time to employ new thinking.


Anyone know about them?   Their website has no information at all. 
http://www.digisheds.com/


----------



## T & P (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Digisheds tweeted Buzz to tell us that the Brixton Regeneration team are "sorting out the "High Street".
> The picture shows one person holding an iPad and another with a large piece of paper. I don't know what's going on.
> 
> 
> ...



I keep reading their name as 'Dickheads'


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

T & P said:


> In this particular case, I'd venture that _anything_ would be an improvement and preferable to the chicken takeaway outlet it replaces (if it is the type of shitty, zero welfare, zero quality fried chicken takeaway shop that plagues every high street, town and city in the land).


I don't like any of them but they are usually very affordable. Almost certainly more affordable than the new trendy one that's replacing it.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

T & P said:


> I keep reading their name as 'Dickheads'


It is a weird name but they're on trend with their keywords:


----------



## Greebo (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Digisheds tweeted Buzz to tell us that the Brixton Regeneration team are "sorting out the "High Street".
> The picture shows one person holding an iPad and another with a large piece of paper. I don't know what's going on. <snip>


Something probably to do with the council's repeated emphasis on social enterprise and nurturing local business last night.  As part of the plans for the next 5-10 years.  

I'd like to believe the best of it, but it bodes.


----------



## aussw9 (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> I don't like any of them but they are usually very affordable. Almost certainly more affordable than the new trendy one that's replacing it.



There are at least half a dozen if not more fried chicken stores within a block each way of Briton station road. 

That being said, I wont be visiting boom burger as there are already better alternatives in town.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> BTW, it appears that the self styled 'JoshyBOOM' of Boom Burgers is the grandson of Tory peer Lord Peter Rees.



"steady on brixton yah, you dark-skinned people have been doing caribbean cooking all wrong, let an aristocrat show you how to cook jamaican"


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

Interesting response to the feature on Boom Burgers:


> That shop was Maureen’s home for a while (of Guyanese roti fame), until the chicken shop owner two doors down mysteriously bought the lease (I always thought to put her out of business).
> 
> Now her business is still homeless,and Brixton has swapped a genuine Caribbean restaurant for a fake version


----------



## ricbake (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> It is a weird name but they're on trend with their keywords:
> 
> View attachment 67014



For a "Digi"tal organisation seems odd that their web site isn't really a website just a holding page


But this seems to say something about them - http://www.bitc.org.uk/blog/post/developing-digisheds-lambeth

Sounds like it should just be the Job Centre Plus

"_Digisheds is a unique and innovative employability programme that provides job opportunities and employability training for individuals at a disadvantage in the job market, such as young NEETs, and long-term unemployed adults. It currently runs three days a week for 20 people at a time."_


----------



## Winot (Jan 29, 2015)

Greebo said:


> London Living Wage to be brought in as the standard minimum to be paid to anyone working for Lambeth or for any of their contractors. Zero hours contracts to be got rid of.



Excellent news.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> it appears that the self styled 'JoshyBOOM' of Boom Burgers is the grandson of Tory peer Lord Peter Rees.



surely not the same guy who's sister is Jazzy de Lisser cited as one of Londons "it kids" by Vanity Fair magazine.....http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2009/03/londons-new-it-kids
and who's mother is married to ex-race driving toff and best mate of Prince Charles Johnny Dumfries...................http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Crichton-Stuart,_7th_Marquess_of_Bute
if so then by strange coincidence he attended the same £!!,000 a term private school as at least one, maybe both, of the guys opening a new "hip" joint on the site of the former Frontline off license


----------



## Greebo (Jan 29, 2015)

ricbake said:


> <snip>"_Digisheds is a unique and innovative employability programme that provides job opportunities and employability training for individuals at a disadvantage in the job market, such as young NEETs, and long-term unemployed adults. It currently runs three days a week for 20 people at a time."_


The way that bodies (social entrepreneurs) like Digisheds were spun last night, you'd ve thought they were saints - smartening up young people and their attitudes, persuading hardnosed businessowners to give those poor people a chance... 

Nothing in it for the social entrepreneur, honest.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Interesting response to the feature on Boom Burgers:


I understand peoples worries but comments made by a reader of Brixton Buzz like "posh people out of Brixton" is nothing but inverted snobbery.

Makes me hope the place does well even more than I normally would wish a new business well.

<edit for clarity>


----------



## T & P (Jan 29, 2015)

Any news on the size of his kitchen?


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> I don't know what's going on. I've never heard of Digisheds, neither do I understand their mission statement: Anyone know about them?   Their website has no information at all.
> http://www.digisheds.com/



They're BITC linked:
http://www.bitc.org.uk/blog/post/developing-digisheds-lambeth 

"Digisheds is a unique and innovative employability programme that provides job opportunities and employability training for individuals at a disadvantage in the job market, such as young NEETs, and long-term unemployed adults. It currently runs three days a week for 20 people at a time. Participants complete a four week intensive curriculum with the support of volunteer mentors from local businesses."


Some of the guff on there will no doubt prompt a reaction on here.


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 29, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I understand peoples worries but comments on buzz like "posh people out of Brixton" is nothing but inverted snobbery.
> 
> Makes me hope the place does well even more than I normally would wish a new business well.



Usually I stay out of these debates... but Station Road is really the last place I can go without looking and feeling out of place. Granville Arcade, Market Row and the high street are a different world. And based on the recent history of Brixton, we know it only takes one upmarket place to completely transform beyond recognition an area.


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 29, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> "steady on brixton yah, you dark-skinned people have been doing caribbean cooking all wrong, let an aristocrat show you how to cook jamaican"



There's a story about him learning to cook from his 'cook' whilst growing up in Jamaica as a child. An incredible gulf in life experience. 

Do you have any Island Records in your collection?!


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 29, 2015)

uk benzo said:


> Usually I stay out of these debates... but Station Road is really the last place I can go without looking and feeling out of place. Granville Arcade, Market Row and the high street are a different world. And based on the recent history of Brixton, we know it only takes one upmarket place to completely transform beyond recognition an area.


I normally stay out of them too, it's not worth the energy. But seriously, do you feel more out of place on the high street than you did say 10 years ago? Has it really changed that much for you? I'm not challenging you, genuine friendly question.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

More from Digisheds #lookingcool


----------



## uk benzo (Jan 29, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I normally stay out of them too, it's not worth the energy. But seriously, do you feel more out of place on the high street than you did say 10 years ago? Has it really changed that much for you? I'm not challenging you, genuine friendly question.



I don't feel out of place on the high street per se, but there are no shops that I can frequent apart from Iceland. 10 years ago, I would spend time in woolworths faffing about aimlessly, eating like a king with a £5 budget in Speedy Noodles, pop into Websters to buy work shoes and get treated with respect by the staff etc. Now the high street is made up of bland characterless establishments and come weekend/evening time, full of pissed up people holding up their phones with google maps loaded onto it, pissing on walls and vomiting everywhere.

Regarding BV and Market Row, I genuinely do feel out of place. No doubt about that.


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I understand peoples worries but comments on buzz like "posh people out of Brixton" is nothing but inverted snobbery.


For the record, that comment was made by a reader, but I can understand why some locals may feel uncomfortable about the changes taking place. 


Mr Retro said:


> Makes me hope the place does well even more than I normally would wish a new business well.


Because of one anonymous comment?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 29, 2015)

inverted snobbery, as any fule know, is a worse crime than pricing people out of their communities so that you can live in the latest fashionable area.  it's ok to do that, but anyone complaining is an inverted snob and thus should be whipped in the street by your groom.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Because of one anonymous comment?



i can see his argument.  whenever i see people complaining about racism i dress as goebbels and attack ethnic minorities.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 29, 2015)

Them are definitely snow flakes...


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> For the record, that comment was made by a reader, but I can understand why some locals may feel uncomfortable about the changes taking place.
> Because of one anonymous comment?


I didn't mean to imply it was the option of Brixton Buzz. I'll edit for clarity.  

I understand it too but "posh people out of Brixton" is a shit attitude to have in my opinion.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 29, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> i can see his argument.  whenever i see people complaining about racism i dress as goebbels and attack ethnic minorities.


Why do you do that?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 29, 2015)

Oh gosh those poor posh people.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 29, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> inverted snobbery, as any fule know, is a worse crime than pricing people out of their communities so that you can live in the latest fashionable area.  it's ok to do that, but anyone complaining is an inverted snob and thus should be whipped in the street by your groom.


I much preferred the old Brixton, it was so mixed and inclusive, everybody was welcome. Unless they were "posh" of course.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 29, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Oh gosh those poor posh people.


Why are you feeling sorry for posh people?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 29, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> i can see his argument.  whenever i see people complaining about racism i dress as goebbels and attack ethnic minorities.



I'd quite like to see that tbh - sounds quite funny.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 29, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I much preferred the old Brixton, it was so mixed and inclusive, everybody was welcome. Unless they were "posh" of course.


I bought my first flat in central Brixton from a double barrel named barrister who wore a three piece pin stripe suit and bowler hat every day and carried a furled umbrella. He'd been here since the late 80s. He loved it but his about to be 5th wife wasn't so keen so they moved to Hampstead.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 29, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Why do you do that?



because i'm nto a racist or anything but those do gooding anti-racists just get on my tits.  they're so self-righteous.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 29, 2015)

Rushy said:


> He loved it but his about to be 5th wife wasn't so keen so they moved to Hampstead.



poor sod.

e2a and a rich sod too.  proof that money can't buy you happiness


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 29, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> because i'm nto a racist or anything but those do gooding anti-racists just get on my tits.  they're so self-righteous.


Perhaps you could explain the parallel you seem to be drawing between "posh" people and racism. Because you've lost me.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 29, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> poor sod.
> 
> e2a and a rich sod too.  proof that money can't buy you happiness


Not sure whether he was rich. He had 4 ex wives! I suspect the new wife may have had all the financial bargaining power...


----------



## brixtonblade (Jan 29, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Them are definitely snow flakes...



Looked like hail (hale?) to me.  It's properly freezing.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 29, 2015)

brixtonblade said:


> Looked like hail (hale?) to me.  It's properly freezing.


It was fluffy just here just for a little and blowing all over the place, including inside my house as today was the day we chose to sort out the sash windows.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> It is a weird name but they're on trend with their keywords:
> 
> View attachment 67014


There was me hoping for something to do with sheds.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 29, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Perhaps you could explain the parallel you seem to be drawing between "posh" people and racism. Because you've lost me.



liar.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 29, 2015)

> Core Delivery Outputs... employer-led core skills .... well-being... motivation... enterprise... innovation capability... enhanced outputs... access... knowledge resources... mentoring.....local targets integrated... DWP Outcomes... throughput of 240 people...  job outcomes... employability ... personal development practice... aspirations ... dialogue...


sheds would be more interesting. Sound like people who don't have a single idea but have all the jargon to make up for it.


----------



## elmpp (Jan 29, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> liar.


The point is, despite your shite analogy, is that inverse snobbery is pretty bad. 

And if it makes you feel bad and uncomfortable then that's your personal reaction not the intent of the restauranteur


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 29, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> sheds would be more interesting. Sound like people who don't have a single idea but have all the jargon to make up for it.


That sound you hear is several dozen boxes being ticked on a checklist based on some funding criteria documents. Doesn't really make much difference what happens after that.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 29, 2015)

Can anyone explain why that posh Durand Academy with the very expensive headmaster (and PR guru) is not in the league tables as published in the Standard today? 
Or are they in the same league as Eton (Jon Snow said Eton wasn't listed on C4 news earlier today)


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 29, 2015)

elmpp said:


> The point is, despite your shite analogy, is that inverse snobbery is pretty bad.
> 
> And if it makes you feel bad and uncomfortable then that's your personal reaction not the intent of the restauranteur



what's bad about it?  what _material _harm does it do?  

i have no idea what the second bit means.  i think it means that if i have a problem with people being forced out of their homes and businesses then to blame it on those doing the evicting is bad because you its worse to think bad things about people doing harm than it is to do the harm.  am i right?  are you really saying that being critical of social and ethnic cleansing is worse than doing it?

your morals are proper twisted mate.  proper twisted.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 29, 2015)

go on to the cressingham gardens thread, elmpp, and tell them that complaining about gentrification is worse than the fact theyre all being made homeless so lambeth can move wealthy people in.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Small feature:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I was talking to someone I know from Clapton telling them that next time there are in Brixton to check out Brixton Station road not Brixton Village. As Brixton Station road is one of the last corners of Brixton that not been taken over by trendy eateries. 

I know see its happening to the last bit of Brixton I feel really at home in.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 29, 2015)

that's a terrible attitude gramsci.  worse than hitler.  you should be pleased that there are lots of opportunities for aristocrats to sell burgers.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 29, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> that's a terrible attitude gramsci.  worse than hitler.  you should be pleased that there are lots of opportunities for aristocrats to sell burgers.



 You did make me laugh. Brightened up my evening. 

I may have said this before but I took my friend from Walthamstow around Brixton recently on a Sunday.

Showed her the Brixton Village and then Brixton Station Road. She said, with no prompting from me, that it was two different worlds.


----------



## se5 (Jan 29, 2015)

CH1 said:


> Can anyone explain why that posh Durand Academy with the very expensive headmaster (and PR guru) is not in the league tables as published in the Standard today?
> Or are they in the same league as Eton (Jon Snow said Eton wasn't listed on C4 news earlier today)



Because the middle school bit of Durand only started in 2014 so I imagine that the first year that students will be sitting GCSE level exams is either June 2016  if they admitted pupils direct to year 10 (age 14-15) or more likely 2017 if they started the first group of pupils  in year 9 (age 13-14) and are working their way up through the school


----------



## teuchter (Jan 29, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> go on to the cressingham gardens thread, elmpp, and tell them that complaining about gentrification is worse than the fact theyre all being made homeless so lambeth can move wealthy people in.


You can complain about gentrification without reducing it to a simplistic "poshos out" chant though.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 29, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> They're BITC linked:
> http://www.bitc.org.uk/blog/post/developing-digisheds-lambeth
> 
> "Digisheds is a unique and innovative employability programme that provides job opportunities and employability training for individuals at a disadvantage in the job market, such as young NEETs, and long-term unemployed adults. It currently runs three days a week for 20 people at a time. Participants complete a four week intensive curriculum with the support of volunteer mentors from local businesses."
> ...



So its another one of these organisations like A4E that pimp out on the unemployed.

These organisations get paid contracts to do this. Get paid on "outcomes". Read the guff they come out with and one would think they do it for free.

What is really needed is proper training courses that people can go on. ie ones with a real qualification at the end. Not a load of positive thinking bollox from social entrepreneurs.


----------



## elmpp (Jan 29, 2015)

Inverse snobbery is vile, as is any other derogatory slander. 

It's clear that people think it's OK because of some righteous anger against poshness.

What gets me is that everyone fails to see that everyone is, to some extent, complicit in the changes and slandering just means they're hypocritically vile


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

elmpp said:


> Inverse snobbery is vile, as is any other derogatory slander.
> 
> It's clear that people think it's OK because of some righteous anger against poshness.
> 
> What gets me is that everyone fails to see that everyone is, to some extent, complicit in the changes and slandering just means they're hypocritically vile


I don't think you know what slander means, tbh, but feel free to keep on ranting away. This clearly is something that pushes a multitude of your buttons.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 29, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> So its another one of these organisations like A4E that pimp out on the unemployed.
> 
> These organisations get paid contracts to do this. Get paid on "outcomes". Read the guff they come out with and one would think they do it for free.
> 
> What is really needed is proper training courses that people can go on. ie ones with a real qualification at the end. Not a load of positive thinking bollox from social entrepreneurs.


I think A4E was the demented child of an ideal of a redundant shipyard worker who was corupted by a big business concept which got completely out of hand.
Digi sheds looks like a much more invidious distilation of corporate bile sent in with an edgy coolness as a precurser to the 21st century workhouse 


Or I might just be a bit pissed..........


----------



## elmpp (Jan 29, 2015)

editor said:


> I don't think you know what slander means, tbh, but feel free to keep on ranting away. This clearly is something that pushes a multitude of your buttons.


It's clear to what I refer.

Give us another italisised tale of a braying, coked up posh twat ranting at you on a night out


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

elmpp said:


> It's clear to what I refer.
> 
> Give us another italisised tale of a braying, coked up posh twat ranting at you on a night out


And there he goes again.


----------



## elmpp (Jan 29, 2015)

These boards require mod ignore


----------



## editor (Jan 29, 2015)

elmpp said:


> These boards require mod ignore


I think you just need to calm down.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 29, 2015)

elmpp said:


> These boards require mod ignore



Is that like a button you can select that sends everything you post to the dustbin


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 29, 2015)

Supporters of the posh, draining what little political capital they have left. They are on the wrong side of every economic argument and they know it.


----------



## elmpp (Jan 29, 2015)

I'm making a serious point - how can inverse snobbery to this extent be justified?


----------



## leanderman (Jan 29, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> go on to the cressingham gardens thread, elmpp, and tell them that complaining about gentrification is worse than the fact theyre all being made homeless so lambeth can move wealthy people in.



Has a decision been taken to make everyone in Cressingham homeless so as to move posh people in?

I didn't think it had got that far. Is that one of the 'options'?


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 29, 2015)

elmpp said:


> What gets me is that everyone fails to see that everyone is, to some extent, complicit in the changes QUOTE]





This is a meaningless phrase.

Everyone lives in society. That does not mean that everyone has the same power or wealth to change it.


----------



## Gramsci (Jan 29, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Has a decision been taken to make everyone in Cressingham homeless so as to move posh people in?
> 
> I didn't think it had got that far. Is that one of the 'options'?



I was speaking to a Council tenant recently , who does not post on these boards, she is convinced the Council wants to move the "yuppies" into Cressingham Gardens. She does not live in Cressingham Gardens either.

This so called "inverse snobbery" is widespread.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 29, 2015)

leanderman said:


> <snip> didn't think it had got that far. <snip>


The softening up process has gone on more than long enough.  There's no longer even much pretence that it's consultation and not softening up.  The regeneration charter has been rejected by tenants, this week.

The council are still not legally bound by the test of opinion, which isn't even going to include every resident of the estate who is listed on the electoral roll.  You know what?  I've said all this before (and more) and just CBA - go and boil your head.

Flats rebuilt on the estate will have higher rents, all will be put on water meters, and all will be 2 council tax bands higher than currently.  Thus pricing working poor households off the estate.  That's before you allow for the benefit cap.  A suit at a recent meeting said that the council wouldn't be so silly as to price the estate's tenants out of their own homes - cue a ripple of mild derision.

Alternatively, come to one of the TRA meetings and ask how people feel.  People are becoming seriously ill (mostly physically ill, I might add) because of this shit, but you apparently prefer to wank over it.  That's so classy of you.

Leasholders and freeholders (about a third of households on the estate) will have next to no chance of staying as they've been offered roughly 60%.


----------



## leanderman (Jan 30, 2015)

Greebo said:


> The softening up process has gone on more than long enough.  There's no longer even much pretence that it's consultation and not softening up.  The regeneration charter has been rejected by tenants, this week.
> 
> The council are still not legally bound by the test of opinion, which isn't even going to include every resident of the estate who is listed on the electoral roll.  You know what?  I've said all this before (and more) and just CBA - go and boil your head.
> 
> ...



It seems irrational to me to knock buildings down.	

I can't believe they would be so stupid.

It's not a question of 'wank' or 'classiness'.


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

I know a few people who live on Cressingham Gardens and they also say that they feel powerless, ignored and most likely going to have their homes swept aside for some private luxury housing development. To be honest, that's what several people on my estate feel too, such is the distrust in Lambeth and the seemingly unstoppable forces of private developers.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 30, 2015)

leanderman said:


> It seems irrational to me to knock buildings down.
> 
> I can't believe they would be so stupid.
> 
> It's not a question of 'wank' or 'classiness'.


Myatts Fields North could have been like Battersea village but for the slum clearance of 40 years ago. They have just cleared the slums they built in the 70s and are building something that makes me think they are battery farmibg people in hutches 

Its about density we can fit more properties in this space - Central government requires us to build more accomodation. Whatever the cost.
Lambeth's Labour party doesn't seem to realise they are accomodating the people who can afford this, supporters of the Tories who will vote them out of office.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 30, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> I was speaking to a Council tenant recently , who does not post on these boards, she is convinced the Council wants to move the "yuppies" into Cressingham Gardens. She does not live in Cressingham Gardens either.
> 
> This so called "inverse snobbery" is widespread.


That's not inverse snobbery though. That lady wants to keep yuppies out of Cressingham gardens which I would wholly support. A "suit" speaking at a meeting isn't automatically posh. 

You can dislike inverse snobbery and support the people in Cressingham Gardens and tenents who are forced out of their houses in general. It's not mutually exclusive. "Posh" people aren't the reason why society is fucked. They are an easy target but they are the wrong target.


----------



## SpamMisery (Jan 30, 2015)

Thats not inverted snobbery, that's just having a belief on something.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> That's not inverse snobbery though. That lady wants to keep yuppies out of Cressingham gardens which I would wholly support.



What precisely is a yuppie in your view, why do they want to move into Cressingham and why is out ok to keep them out?


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 30, 2015)

Rushy said:


> What precisely is a yuppie in your view, why do they want to move into Cressingham and why is out ok to keep them out?


In this case I interpreted the meaning as those being the driving force behind the move to get people out of their homes in Cressingham. 

Again I have no problem with "yuppies" per se. I was a young urban professional myself until age would now make that description of me wholly inaccurate.


----------



## billythefish (Jan 30, 2015)

There should be no room for bigotry, no matter who it is against. It is true to say that Urban professionals and the aristocracy appear to be the last section of society where open season still exists.

However, the comments above and elsewhere refer to factual observations. Antisocial behaviour has mushroomed; the council is riding roughshod over the very people it likes to think it supports; people visit Brixton for their nights out completely oblivious to the poverty on their doorstep. This has been satirised for ages (remember Nathan Barley? "I saw you coming"?).

There's a difference.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 30, 2015)

What these fuckers are choosing to ignore is the power dynamic, they are sickeningly disingenuous.
It's the poor that have had open season declared upon them not the rich and the powerful, not the homeowners but those on benefits, the sick and disabled.

It's the last refuge of the desperate posh fuckwits to claim they are somehow equal victims, fuck the lot of them.


----------



## Greebo (Jan 30, 2015)

leanderman said:


> It seems irrational to me to knock buildings down.
> 
> I can't believe they would be so stupid. <snip>


Yes but this is Lambeth FFS - logic doesn't seem to come into the collective heads of the council.  Repair and refurb is "too expensive", except there are figures to prove that it isn't.  After several months of trying to stop the estate's own number crunchers getting access to the figures, it's out.  Worst case refit of the kitchens & bathrooms plus rewiring etc comes in at *approximately half of what the council estimated it would cost.  Even structural repairs would be significantly cheaper than regeneration.*

The council's preferred option knocks down the entire estate block by block, rebuilds block by block, and adds on just 15 bedrooms at the end of 10-15 years of mess and disruption.  They reckon less, but looking at Clapham Park and Myatts field, it's easily going to take several years.

In the option preferred by the council, not by residents, nobody gets to stay where they are.  There's a single decant.  There's no measure in place to keep your neighbours even in the same cluster, and no certainty that you get a balcony or garden if you've got one now - bad news for pet owners.  This could be very convenient if anyone were trying to play divide and rule with the residents of the estate.


----------



## elmpp (Jan 30, 2015)

This righteous hostility toward anyone even remotely considered a posho is vile. 

It's also uniformly applied, as far as i can see, to anyone who doesn't fit the bill.

 - braying
 - villaaaaage
 - jaunty hats
  Etc etc


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 30, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> It's the poor that have had open season declared upon them not the rich and the powerful, not the homeowners but those on benefits, the sick and disabled.



I agree that the poor are in a very bad situation and less and less is being done to help while the rich get taxed less and add to their wealth.

But I've seen you condem "homeowners" before. Why? Are Homeowners to blame for the peoples problems? That makes no sense.



Dexter Deadwood said:


> It's the last refuge of the desperate posh fuckwits to claim they are somehow equal victims, fuck the lot of them.


I've never seen this claim.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 30, 2015)

A consultation for Longfield Hall, Myatt's Fields. Local Trust wants idea for new uses. Very short, very simple to complete.

BBuzz piece.


----------



## Manter (Jan 30, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> A consultation for Longfield Hall, Myatt's Fields. Local Trust wants idea for new uses. Very short, very simple to complete.
> 
> BBuzz piece.


 fabulous building


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

So the Federation guys have sold out to the 'seasonal and inventive' people from Salon. I used to love Federation but stopped going ages ago.
"New Coffee owners unite the markets" says the Bugle. Not quite sure what that means.


----------



## han (Jan 30, 2015)

editor said:


> So the Federation guys have sold out to the 'seasonal and inventive' people from Salon. I used to love Federation but stopped going ages ago.
> "New Coffee owners unite the markets" says the Bugle. Not quite sure what that means.



Entirely unsurprising. [emoji20]


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

elmpp said:


> This righteous hostility toward anyone even remotely considered a posho is vile.
> 
> It's also uniformly applied, as far as i can see, to anyone who doesn't fit the bill.
> 
> ...


You seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder over this bizarrely described "righteous hostility." Not sure where the 'jaunty hats' bit fits into things either, but I'm pretty sure there aren't people walking around Brixton feeling desperately hurt over people using the phrase. "Villaaaage" usually raises a smile. And why not? It's funny.


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

Here's two Brixton-related posts for the morning: 

Brockwell Park shines in the winter sun – in photos
Brixton Pound teams up with The Turpentine to launch Barrier Block-inspired t-shirts


----------



## Rushy (Jan 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> In this case I interpreted the meaning as those being the driving force behind the move to get people out of their homes in Cressingham.



I see. So yuppie is a different thing in every case depending on who says it and what they are taking about (but pretty much always bad). It's about as useful as saying "bogeyman". Most of these people are regular folk, working hard, looking for homes for themselves and their families, getting shifted from pillar to post trying to find somewhere they can afford. It's easy to dehumanise or vilify them by labelling them all yuppies without actually thinking what it means and blame them for everything. I appreciate that's not where you are coming from but you appear to be tacitly accepting that usage.


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

Relevant piece in the New Statesman. 


> *The triumph of the hive mind: why is gentrified London so sterile and dull?*
> 
> It is often said that London is a collection of villages, as a way of explaining that, within this sprawling and diverse metropolis, you can still find a sense of community, of place, of home. But in Tufnell Park and its surrounds, the word “village” has taken on what is, for me, a slightly worrying tone. A recent article in the _Guardian_ discussed the bemusing attempts of urban developers and estate agents to “rebrand” various areas of the city to create new fashionable quarters in the hope that wealthy metropolitans will flock there – something it referred to as “corporate cartography”. The Londonist helpfully provided a mapof these new areas. Bafflingly, Holborn has been dubbed “Midtown”, a coinage the _Evening Standard_ has been trying to make happen for some time now, without, it must be admitted, much success. Many of these rebranded neighbourhoods are “Villages”: there’s “Amwell Village”, near the Pentonville Road, “Marylebone Village” and, soon, I suspect, “Tufnell Park Village”, with all the horror (or glee, if you own property in the area) that that entails.





> Despite the insane property price rises, there are still large parts of the area given over to social housing, though I am beginning to wonder where anyone on a low income is going to be able to go to eat and drink should this rebranding continue. The unusual volume of social housing was one of the reasons cited in a bizarre _Economist_ article last year about the stubborn refusal of the Kentish Town Road to escape its “humdrum” existence (read: there’s a Poundstretcher and a pawn shop) and gentrify the fuck out of itself like everywhere else. “Kentish Town’s shops and cafés are almost invariably untrendy and in some cases mouldering”, the author wrote, snottily. He or she must not have stuck around long enough to witness the opening of “Ladies and Gents”, a new subterranean cocktail bar in a renovated public toilet, or the hoo-ha over the proposed opening of a branch Wahaca in the space above Kentish Town tube, which, locals worried, would displace the longstanding greengrocers (they have now sorted out their differences).


http://www.newstatesman.com/2015/01/triumph-hive-mind-why-gentrified-london-so-sterile-and-dull


----------



## Rushy (Jan 30, 2015)

editor said:


> "Villaaaage" usually raises a smile. And why not? It's funny.



A polite smile.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 30, 2015)

Rushy said:


> I see. So yuppie is a different thing in every case depending on who says it and what they are taking about (but pretty much always bad). It's about as useful as saying "bogeyman". Most of these people are regular folk, working hard, looking for homes for themselves and their families, getting shifted from pillar to post trying to find somewhere they can afford. It's easy to dehumanise or vilify them by labelling them all yuppies without actually thinking what it means and blame them for everything. I appreciate that's not where you are coming from but you appear to be tacitly accepting that usage.


Fair play, I don't disagree with any of that. As I say if somebody described me as such 10 years ago I wouldn't have been able to disagree. No I'm a muppy I guess.


----------



## Ms T (Jan 30, 2015)

Rushy said:


> I see. So yuppie is a different thing in every case depending on who says it and what they are taking about (but pretty much always bad). It's about as useful as saying "bogeyman". Most of these people are regular folk, working hard, looking for homes for themselves and their families, getting shifted from pillar to post trying to find somewhere they can afford. It's easy to dehumanise or vilify them by labelling them all yuppies without actually thinking what it means and blame them for everything. I appreciate that's not where you are coming from but you appear to be tacitly accepting that usage.


Exactly. Young professionals are being shafted by the system too. My younger colleagues haven't a hope of buying property in London and aren't eligible for social housing (rightly)' so they're paying exorbitant rents on relatively modest salaries.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 30, 2015)

On the tube this morning, there was a young lady settling in, rearranging her bag and huge earphones etc. She had a thermos cup thing and when she was settled down she took a digestive biscuit out of her bag to enjoy with her hot beverage. This pleased me greatly.


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

We're all getting shafted but some are getting more shafted than others. Money in the bank and a good job at least provide options that aren't available to those at the bottom.


----------



## ricbake (Jan 30, 2015)

editor said:


> We're all getting shafted but some are getting more shafted than others. Money in the bank and a good job at least provide options that aren't available to those at the bottom.



Being shafted is being shafted - 
if you don't have any cushioning it can feel worse than if you do - 
if you don't know how to object to it, it feels worse.


----------



## elmpp (Jan 30, 2015)

editor said:


> We're all getting shafted but some are getting more shafted than others. Money in the bank and a good job at least provide options that aren't available to those at the bottom.


Finally a more nuanced viewpoint - everyone is affected (and is complicit) to some degree or another by an all-powerful system. 

I can understand the sentiment to some degree against those with privileged wealth but the righteous hostility directed toward anyone other than those on the breadline is bizarre.


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

ricbake said:


> Being shafted is being shafted -
> if you don't have any cushioning it can feel worse than if you do -
> if you don't know how to object to it, it feels worse.


Well exactly. And I can understand why those at the bottom can sometimes lash out in anger and frustration, especially when they're being lectured or told what to think by those who are a lot more comfortably off than them.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 30, 2015)

#NotAllPoshPeople


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Has a decision been taken to make everyone in Cressingham homeless so as to move posh people in?
> 
> I didn't think it had got that far. Is that one of the 'options'?



it's the whole fucking point innit.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

elmpp said:


> I'm making a serious point - how can inverse snobbery to this extent be justified?



you didn't answer my question, you just wailed.  let's try another question: are you a posho, or are you merely a self-hating lickspittle of the upper classes?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> This is a meaningless phrase.
> 
> Everyone lives in society. That does not mean that everyone has the same power or wealth to change it.



people with the power and wealth to do so tend to believe that they only have the same power as everyone else.  it's very sad, but it leads to attitudes like elmpps, were they consider that having a class analysis, however crude, to be an actual mortal sin.


----------



## elmpp (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> you didn't answer my question, you just wailed.  let's try another question: are you a posho, or are you merely a self-hating lickspittle of the upper classes?


Tit


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

elmpp said:


> Tit



oh noes, ladyparts!   you complain about bigotry but your misogyny is showing.

still won't answer the question though will you?   what are you, a politician?  give it a go, what's the worst that can happen?

where is the greater moral crime:

1.  an anonymous internet person comments on bbuzz "poshos go home" or similar.

2. a long standing member of the community has her rent increased to force her to quit trading so that a rich outsider can have her shop.


----------



## elmpp (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> oh noes, ladyparts!   you complain about bigotry but your misogyny is showing.
> 
> still won't answer the question though will you?   what are you, a politician?  give it a go, what's the worst that can happen?
> 
> ...



The answer to that would be number 2.

To be clear: I am in no way validating the regrettable situation re. displacement through rent increases. I am saying righteous hostility to anyone who fits the posho bill is vile and simplistic.

I think you undo yourself when you enquire as to my "class"


----------



## teuchter (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> people with the power and wealth to do so tend to believe that they only have the same power as everyone else.



This is a massive presumption and it's frequently applied to posters here in spite of there being no actual evidence that this is what they believe. It's what leads to the "righteous hatred" mentioned earlier, and comments like this -



el-ahrairah said:


> it's very sad, but it leads to attitudes like elmpps, were they consider that having a class analysis, however crude, to be an actual mortal sin.



again, based on nothing but your presumptions.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> "steady on brixton yah, you dark-skinned people have been doing caribbean cooking all wrong, let an aristocrat show you how to cook jamaican"



Hopefully we'll see plenty of Jamaican-heritage Brixtonians walking past, sucking their teeth and shouting out "Ja-fake-an!" at the place.


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

elmpp said:


> I am saying righteous hostility to anyone who fits the posho bill is vile and simplistic.


With all this "righteous anger," righteous hostility" and "righteous hatred" going on it's beginning to feel sound like a tabernacle sermon.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

Winot said:


> Excellent news.



I believe it was a proposition, rather than a promise, although I'd be over the moon if it *were* a promise!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> i can see his argument.  whenever i see people complaining about racism i dress as goebbels and attack ethnic minorities.



TBF, the uniform suits you.


----------



## snowy_again (Jan 30, 2015)

editor said:


> With all this "righteous anger," righteous hostility" and "righteous hatred" going on it's beginning to feel sound like a tabernacle sermon.



Don't bring religion into this!


----------



## elmpp (Jan 30, 2015)

editor said:


> With all this "righteous anger," righteous hostility" and "righteous hatred" going on it's beginning to feel sound like a tabernacle sermon.


I think you misunderstand the word "righteous".


----------



## Rushy (Jan 30, 2015)

It's interesting to see an objection to phrases along the lines of "poshos out" being likened to an objection to class analysis. Does it follow that by objecting to the term "blacks out" one must be opposed to the analysis of matters of race?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

elmpp said:


> The answer to that would be number 2.
> 
> To be clear: I am in no way validating the regrettable situation re. displacement through rent increases. I am saying righteous hostility to anyone who fits the posho bill is vile and simplistic.
> 
> I think you undo yourself when you enquire as to my "class"



jolly good.  which is why you have no comment to make except to ensure that critics of issue number 2 do so in an appropriate manner.  jolly good.  we could do with more of you on the barricades.  

and i really don't think i do.  whether you like it or not you have a social class, "class" even.  and this is the single biggest tell on your life prospects, your health, your income, your chances of getting investigated, caught, prosecuted, or jailed for any crime you commit.  it's real, even if you don't want it to be, or more likely, don't want others to believe it.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

Rushy said:


> It's interesting to see an objection to phrases along the lines of "poshos out" being likened to an objection to class analysis. Does it follow that by objecting to the term "blacks out" one must be opposed to the analysis of matters of race?



do you know what the phrase Structural Inequality means?


----------



## elmpp (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> jolly good.  which is why you have no comment to make except to ensure that critics of issue number 2 do so in an appropriate manner.  jolly good.  we could do with more of you on the barricades.
> 
> and i really don't think i do.  whether you like it or not you have a social class, "class" even.  and this is the single biggest tell on your life prospects, your health, your income, your chances of getting investigated, caught, prosecuted, or jailed for any crime you commit.  it's real, even if you don't want it to be, or more likely, don't want others to believe it.


Sounds a very progressive attitude you have there. I'm out


----------



## Rushy (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> do you know what the phrase Structural Inequality means?


Is that your answer?


----------



## Belushi (Jan 30, 2015)

elmpp said:


> Sounds a very progressive attitude you have there. I'm out



eh? you think it's 'progressive' to pretend that peoples life chances aren't largely determined by socio-economic circumstances they're born in to?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

elmpp said:


> Sounds a very progressive attitude you have there. I'm out



you were never in, lickspittle.  you know what side you're on.  same as mr landlord rushy up there, trying to equate crude criticism of the ruling oppressors with racism.	if he was honest, or understood structural inequality, he'd recognise that the similar contextual expression for race in brixton would probably be _whites out.  

who will defend the poor oppressed landowners?_


----------



## elmpp (Jan 30, 2015)

Belushi said:


> eh? you think it's 'progressive' to pretend that peoples life chances aren't largely determined by socio-economic circumstances they're born in to?


Again, I'd highlight the fact that things are more nuanced and that there are many variables. Class, yes, plays a fair part in things.

It certainly does not come first and foremost though and i feel there's been a fair few assumptions about mine because i make a point about the hostility on these boards


----------



## elmpp (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> you were never in, lickspittle.  you know what side you're on.  same as mr landlord rushy up there, trying to equate crude criticism of the ruling oppressors with racism.	if he was honest, or understood structural inequality, he'd recognise that the similar contextual expression for race in brixton would probably be _whites out.
> 
> who will defend the poor oppressed landowners?_



Name-calling now?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

worse than hitler, me.  at least hitler never called anyone a lickspittle on the internet   *chastises self*

what signifiers are stronger than class in british society?


----------



## gabi (Jan 30, 2015)

This thread always delivers when I pop by  

I don't even know why you bother creating a monthly one tbh. It's the same old shit month after month.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I much preferred the old Brixton, it was so mixed and inclusive, everybody was welcome. Unless they were "posh" of course.



Except, of course, that they were, in "the old Brixton".
The difference being that most of them were/are living here, whereas what's being talked about is posho "entrepreneurs", many of whom don't live locally, opening businesses that change the social dynamic of the area so that some locals no longer feel "at home" in their own community, and see the shops that used to sell life's little necessities turn into outlets designed to appeal to the night-time economy.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 30, 2015)

It's interesting to see an objection to phrases along the lines of "poshos out" being likened to an objection to class analysis. Does it follow that by objecting to the term "whites out" one must be opposed to the analysis of matters of race?


----------



## elmpp (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> worse than hitler, me.  at least hitler never called anyone a lickspittle on the internet   *chastises self*
> 
> what signifiers are stronger than class in british society?



That's another discussion. 

Righteous hatred out, mkay?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> trying to equate crude criticism of the ruling oppressors with racism.



I didn't see an attempt to equate. The purpose of the comparison wasn't to suggest that one was as bad as the other. 
That's what you want it to suggest, I think.


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

Rushy said:


> It's interesting to see an objection to phrases along the lines of "poshos out" being likened to an objection to class analysis.


FYI: it was actually worded rather more politely. The person said, "Posh people out of Brixton please." I liked the addition of the word 'please.' Good manners.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> sheds would be more interesting. Sound like people who don't have a single idea but have all the jargon to make up for it.



As someone who reads managerialist jargon-ese, I'm always concerned if the first thing mentioned is "outputs", because it indicates that what concerns the company/business/social enterprise is fitting *outcomes* to an agenda that tick's the business's boxes, not the boxes of the person participating in their programme.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

Rushy said:


> It's interesting to see an objection to phrases along the lines of "poshos out" being likened to an objection to class analysis. Does it follow that by objecting to the term "whites out" one must be opposed to the analysis of matters of race?



yeah, probably.  i'd imagine that if you read the expression "whites out" and were more angry at the bigotry in that statement than interested in an understanding or critique of the social conditions that caused that statement, it's probably because you're not interested in a racial analysis of society.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

righteous
ˈrʌɪtʃəs/
_adjective_

*1*.
morally right or justifiable.
"feelings of righteous indignation about pay and conditions"
synonyms: good, virtuous, upright, upstanding, decent, worthy;
you want less of this stuff, elmpp?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That sound you hear is several dozen boxes being ticked on a checklist based on some funding criteria documents. Doesn't really make much difference what happens after that.



Yup. Fuck those participating in the project, as long as those boxes get ticked and the "social enterprise" gets good rep.
Cunts!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Supporters of the posh, draining what little political capital they have left. They are on the wrong side of every economic argument and they know it.



I have to disagree with you there, Dexter.
For the posh and their cheerleaders,there is only *one* side to any economic argument - theirs, so it's actually impossible for them to be on the wrong side.


----------



## elmpp (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> righteous
> ˈrʌɪtʃəs/
> _adjective_
> 
> ...



Fair enough. What i meant was self-righteousness

adjective
1.
confident of one's own righteousness, especially when smuglymoralistic and intolerant of the opinions and behavior of others.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah, is your position that bigotry is not always a bad thing, or that bigotry is always a bad thing?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

you want me to pretend that i'm wrong?

kinky.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

i made myself late for work arguing.  perhaps it _is_ my fault i'm poor


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

gabi said:


> This thread always delivers when I pop by
> 
> I don't even know why you bother creating a monthly one tbh. It's the same old shit month after month.


A concept you'd have no problem relating to.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

ricbake said:


> Myatts Fields North could have been like Battersea village but for the slum clearance of 40 years ago. They have just cleared the slums they built in the 70s and are building something that makes me think they are battery farmibg people in hutches
> 
> Its about density we can fit more properties in this space - Central government requires us to build more accomodation. Whatever the cost.
> Lambeth's Labour party doesn't seem to realise they are accomodating the people who can afford this, supporters of the Tories who will vote them out of office.



Ric, I'm going to contradict you here and say that Lambeth Labour not only know about the changing demographic, but that some of them welcome it. Several councillors have been "caught" bemoaning the *excess* of social housing stock in their wards, and the "hard work" this entails. Sweeping aside some social housing, even incrementally, will make the borough more and more isolated into concentrated zones of haves and have-nots, and our Red Tory wankers at the Town Hall really don't give much of a toss about the have-nots.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

elmpp said:


> This righteous hostility toward anyone even remotely considered a posho is vile.
> 
> It's also uniformly applied, as far as i can see, to anyone who doesn't fit the bill.
> 
> ...



I think the phrase you keep aiming for and missing is "self-righteous", you sententious pillock.


----------



## steeeve (Jan 30, 2015)

Can someone help me out with what class I am? My grandparents were coal miners and housewives, my mum was a teacher and my dad worked as a surveyor for the council, I own a flat in Brixton (or rather a fraction of it, the bank own the rest) and yes I wasn't born around here


----------



## T & P (Jan 30, 2015)

I think this thread could do with a few (Brixton) cats to offset the all-round unpleasantness of late...


----------



## gabi (Jan 30, 2015)

editor said:


> A concept you'd have no problem relating to.



Seriously, does posting stuff like this actually make you happy? What do you get of this?


----------



## leanderman (Jan 30, 2015)

steeeve said:


> Can someone help me out with what class I am? My grandparents were coal miners and housewives, my mum was a teacher and my dad worked as a surveyor for the council, I own a flat in Brixton (or rather a fraction of it, the bank own the rest) and yes I wasn't born around here



You're Leander class!


----------



## Rushy (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> yeah, probably.  i'd imagine that if you read the expression "whites out" and were more angry at the bigotry in that statement than interested in an understanding or critique of the social conditions that caused that statement, it's probably because you're not interested in a racial analysis of society.


I'm not sure whether you imagined a more specific scenario because it is convenient, or whether you are saying that an objection to bigotry cannot coexist with an interest in the causes of bigotry?


----------



## steeeve (Jan 30, 2015)

leanderman said:


> You're Leander class!



Was just interested at what point one becomes a posho? Presumably my accent rules me out


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

steeeve said:


> Can someone help me out with what class I am? My grandparents were coal miners and housewives, my mum was a teacher and my dad worked as a surveyor for the council, I own a flat in Brixton (or rather a fraction of it, the bank own the rest) and yes I wasn't born around here



Depends entirely which criteria you use.  Most demographers (hawk,spit!) use a mixture of current employment, educational status and income to bracket you off.
For me, it's about how you make/made your living - in Marx's terms,how close you are to the means of production, extrapolated to fit 21st-century employment too - so if you have to sell your labour to a boss to make ends meet, you're a worker and therefore working class. If you're self-employed in the traditional sense, i.e. an artisan selling skilled labour on a job-by-job basis, then you're closer to the means of production, and are effectively _petit bourgeois_. If you're an employer or a _rentier_, you're basically irredeemable, though, and should be made to dance the Tyburn Jig from the nearest lamp-post!


----------



## gabi (Jan 30, 2015)

My gran was born in brixton many years ago. She tells me it was quite the fashionable area to live in back in those days. The envy of people living in other areas. Then it changed. And now it's changing again. 

Plus ca change etc. Its still the best little corner of London. As it was back then.

Deal with it.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jan 30, 2015)

What happened to the market on Electric Avenue today ?


----------



## steeeve (Jan 30, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Depends entirely which criteria you use.  Most demographers (hawk,spit!) use a mixture of current employment, educational status and income to bracket you off.
> For me, it's about how you make/made your living - in Marx's terms,how close you are to the means of production, extrapolated to fit 21st-century employment too - so if you have to sell your labour to a boss to make ends meet, you're a worker and therefore working class. If you're self-employed in the traditional sense, i.e. an artisan selling skilled labour on a job-by-job basis, then you're closer to the means of production, and are effectively _petit bourgeois_. If you're an employer or a _rentier_, you're basically irredeemable, though, and should be made to dance the Tyburn Jig from the nearest lamp-post!



I'm a heating and ventilation engineer working for a boss, I think by your criteria that makes me working class. Am I allowed to stay?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

gabi said:


> My gran was born in brixton many years ago. She tells me it was quite the fashionable area to live in back in those days. The envy of people living in other areas. Then it changed. And now it's changing again.
> 
> Plus ca change etc. Its still the best little corner of London. As it was back then.
> 
> Deal with it.



My gran was a servant back in the '20s and '30s (pretty much from the age of 14), working and living in Brixton. It was more *bits* of Brixton that were fashionable, whereas other bits were scabby terraces even back then (she lived in a scabby terrace on Mayall Rd,or at least her parents, her, 2 sisters and 3 brothers lived on the ground floor of a terrace on Mayall Rd for several years).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 30, 2015)

steeeve said:


> I'm a heating and ventilation engineer working for a boss, I think by your criteria that makes me working class. Am I allowed to stay?



For the time being...


----------



## leanderman (Jan 30, 2015)

steeeve said:


> Was just interested at what point one becomes a posho? Presumably my accent rules me out



I think accent is key. 

Urban75 is the only place where I've been described as posh.


----------



## Winot (Jan 30, 2015)

steeeve said:


> I'm a heating and ventilation engineer working for a boss, I think by your criteria that makes me working class. Am I allowed to stay?



<insert joke about hot air and Urban75 here>


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 30, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> So its another one of these organisations like A4E that pimp out on the unemployed.
> 
> These organisations get paid contracts to do this. Get paid on "outcomes". Read the guff they come out with and one would think they do it for free.
> 
> What is really needed is proper training courses that people can go on. ie ones with a real qualification at the end. Not a load of positive thinking bollox from social entrepreneurs.


 I once had the dubious pleasure of A4E helping me find employment at Brixton job centre. I was bereaved, depressed and unable to stop crying for a few years - I had some pimply youth helping me to write a CV he had no idea how I should explain 2- 3 years of madness /joblessness but was insistant I should include listening to music under hobbies (I rarely listen to music) not sure how he thought this would soften the blow to prospective employers that I was a jibbering wreck. 

Wonder how much govt money they got for 'helping' me.


----------



## steeeve (Jan 30, 2015)

Winot said:


> <insert joke about hot air and Urban75 here>



It's mostly cooling the air these days for the fat cats in their ivory towers!


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 30, 2015)

Anyone seen the cover of the SLP today - 'Light Fantastic' covering the LED bill board story as raised by CH1 here. 
Says Lambeth have extended deadline for public consultation to 13th February


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 30, 2015)

leanderman said:


> It seems irrational to me to knock buildings down.
> 
> I can't believe they would be so stupid.
> 
> It's not a question of 'wank' or 'classiness'.


  Like it would be stupid to demolish 2500 homes in zone1, then sell off the land at a loss and allow property developers to build new expensive flats and sell most of them in the far east? 
*Heygate Estate redevelopment: just 79 social rented units out of a total 2,535 new homes*

Perhaps you think Lambeth is less stupid than Southwark? I don't share your faith.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jan 30, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Except, of course, that they were, in "the old Brixton".
> The difference being that most of them were/are living here, whereas what's being talked about is posho "entrepreneurs", many of whom don't live locally, opening businesses that change the social dynamic of the area so that some locals no longer feel "at home" in their own community, and see the shops that used to sell life's little necessities turn into outlets designed to appeal to the night-time economy.


I would rather have "todays" Brixton than old Brixton where the night time (and day) economy was a crack and heroin market, empty shops and crack houses every 10 feet, No go areas,estates where the postman had a police escort, Junkies piping crack and banging up heroin in stairwells and doorways,Muggings at knifepoint, prostitution,arguments settled with a shoot out. Dealers jumping into your car whist sat in the coldharbour lane traffic. I like a bit of nostalgia but fuck that.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 30, 2015)

Dante couldn't have imagined such an inferno


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 30, 2015)

steeeve said:


> Can someone help me out with what class I am? My grandparents were coal miners and housewives, my mum was a teacher and my dad worked as a surveyor for the council, I own a flat in Brixton (or rather a fraction of it, the bank own the rest) and yes I wasn't born around here


Are you any the wiser now?
Never known what 'class' I am. Most of my life I've felt like sports lesson at school where no one would pick me.
I've never fitted a neat catagory, it was so helpful when queer people were generally loathed and I felt I was definitely underclass.



ViolentPanda said:


> My gran was a servant back in the '20s and '30s (pretty much from the age of 14), working and living in Brixton. It was more *bits* of Brixton that were fashionable, whereas other bits were scabby terraces even back then (she lived in a scabby terrace on Mayall Rd,or at least her parents, her, 2 sisters and 3 brothers lived on the ground floor of a terrace on Mayall Rd for several years).


If we're playing competive grandmothers - both of mine were in service from the age of 12. (up north where its grim)


----------



## steeeve (Jan 30, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Are you any the wiser now?
> Never known what 'class' I am. Most of my life I've felt like sports lesson at school where no one would pick me.
> I've never fitted a neat catagory, it was so helpful when queer people were generally loathed and I felt I was definitely underclass.
> 
> ...



Nope, that was kind of my point, there are no neat categories (apart from at the very top!)


----------



## Rushy (Jan 30, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> I would rather have "todays" Brixton than old Brixton where the night time (and day) economy was a crack and heroin market, empty shops and crack houses every 10 feet, No go areas,estates where the postman had a police escort, Junkies piping crack and banging up heroin in stairwells and doorways,Muggings at knifepoint, prostitution,arguments settled with a shoot out. Dealers jumping into your car whist sat in the coldharbour lane traffic. I like a bit of nostalgia but fuck that.


Step. Away. From the keyboard.

I knew you'd crack


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

New toilet alleyway for Brixton!







http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2015/01/...tric-lane-as-builders-create-a-dark-alleyway/


----------



## T & P (Jan 30, 2015)

Hoardings covered in graffiti in 3...2...1...


----------



## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

There'll be £9 hot dogs coming to a bar in Brixton soon.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

steeeve said:


> Can someone help me out with what class I am? My grandparents were coal miners and housewives, my mum was a teacher and my dad worked as a surveyor for the council, I own a flat in Brixton (or rather a fraction of it, the bank own the rest) and yes I wasn't born around here



what do you do for a living?  do you have any unearned income from property etc.  what's your relationship to capital?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

Rushy said:


> I'm not sure whether you imagined a more specific scenario because it is convenient, or whether you are saying that an objection to bigotry cannot coexist with an interest in the causes of bigotry?



i'm not sure whether you're pretending to think that structural inequality isn't a thing or whether you really do think that.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

steeeve said:


> I'm a heating and ventilation engineer working for a boss, I think by your criteria that makes me working class. Am I allowed to stay?



yep working class, sorry if that disappoints you, but you earn plenty of working class credibility points to be redeemed at your leisure.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 30, 2015)

You know this mammoth 43 page and counting thread means we're set fair for the rest of 2015? The summer will be hot and glorious, it will only ever rain in the middle of the night and Ireland will win the World Cup. 

We'll done all, I'm proud of you!


----------



## Dan U (Jan 30, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> Dealers jumping into your car whist sat in the coldharbour lane traffic.



that happened to me once down the road at the side of the cinema when i was queuing to pull out. bloke was having a domestic with his (presumably) Mrs and jumped in to my camper van. I drove him round the one way system to the bottom of Brixton Hill and declined his kind offer.

was pretty stunned but also


----------



## ricbake (Jan 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> You know this mammoth 43 page and counting thread means we're set fair for the rest of 2015? The summer will be hot and glorious, it will only ever rain in the middle of the night and Ireland will win the World Cup.
> 
> We'll done all, I'm proud of you!



No deduction for off topic bun fights or hasn't this month been too bad....


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 30, 2015)

ricbake said:


> No deduction for off topic bun fights or hasn't this month been too bad....


It's an on-topic bun fight so I think we're good


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jan 30, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Step. Away. From the keyboard.
> 
> I knew you'd crack


Yeah, This thread gave me the needle.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> you didn't answer my question, you just wailed.  let's try another question: are you a posho, or are you merely a self-hating lickspittle of the upper classes?


This is a wierd black and white distinction. You are either posh and upper class and if you don't dislike posh people you are a lickspittle?

I'm glad I'm neither. I was brought up to believe I'm neither better or worse than anybody. I initially respect everybody and then judge them on their character and personality. I know a lot of great people from every walk of life. I know arseholes from every walk of life too. Thankfully way way less of those as I've found most people are nice when you don't go in with a judgement on them in the first place.


----------



## boohoo (Jan 30, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> I would rather have "todays" Brixton than old Brixton where the night time (and day) economy was a crack and heroin market, empty shops and crack houses every 10 feet, No go areas,estates where the postman had a police escort, Junkies piping crack and banging up heroin in stairwells and doorways,Muggings at knifepoint, prostitution,arguments settled with a shoot out. Dealers jumping into your car whist sat in the coldharbour lane traffic. I like a bit of nostalgia but fuck that.


You forgot burnt out cars.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> ... we're good


 We are rarely good on this thread. Good at what?


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jan 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> This is a wierd black and white distinction.



it's also not actually what i'm saying.  i'm not talking about individuals.  i'm talking about _the system_.  which you presumably knew, because you're smart enough to use a computer without injuring yourself, but you'd love to present yourself as gentle tolerant types whilst the mean lefties peddle their bigotry.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jan 30, 2015)

boohoo said:


> You forgot burnt out cars.


I always thought they were art installations.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> it's also not actually what i'm saying.  i'm not talking about individuals.  i'm talking about _the system_.


If you say so, but you specifically asked elmpp that question, then called him/her a lickspittle so that seemed like you were talking about individuals to me. 
But you know, as you are implying I'm a bit stupid so perhaps I've got it all wrong  

Canterbury for me now


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## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> I would rather have "todays" Brixton than old Brixton where the night time (and day) economy was a crack and heroin market, empty shops and crack houses every 10 feet, No go areas,estates where the postman had a police escort, Junkies piping crack and banging up heroin in stairwells and doorways,Muggings at knifepoint, prostitution,arguments settled with a shoot out. Dealers jumping into your car whist sat in the coldharbour lane traffic. I like a bit of nostalgia but fuck that.


Not sure what period you're talking about here, but I don't recall living in anything anywhere near as bad as that - and I've been in the 'notorious' Barrier Block for over 20 years and visiting Brixton for a lot longer.

And while I won't deny that things have been particularly grim at times, for every minus point in that list, there was plenty of plus points about living here, many of which have long since disappeared.

It seems that in modern Brixton, the amount of enjoyment you get out of the place is far more linked in with how much money you've got - and there's still plenty of people here who haven't got very much at all.


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## elmpp (Jan 30, 2015)

editor said:


> Not sure what period you're talking about here, but I don't recall living in anything anywhere near as bad as that - and I've been in the 'notorious' Barrier Block for over 20 years and visiting Brixton for a lot longer.
> 
> And while I won't deny that things have been particularly grim at times, for every minus point in that list, there was plenty of plus points about living here, many of which have long since disappeared.
> 
> It seems that in modern Brixton, the amount of enjoyment you get out of the place is far more linked in with how much money you've got - and there's still plenty of people here who haven't got very much at all.


More of the old party line re. Brixton gone bad. No examples or depth to counterweight the detailed reasoning before it


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## teuchter (Jan 30, 2015)

Maybe SarfLondoner is talking about more than 20 years ago, ie. pre gentrification.


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## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

elmpp said:


> More of the old party line re. Brixton gone bad. No examples or depth to counterweight the detailed reasoning before it


Except that's not what I've said at all. Try reading it again.


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## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Maybe SarfLondoner is talking about more than 20 years ago, ie. pre gentrification.


I didn't realise Brixton was gentrified in 1995. I don't think most of the people living in my block thought that either.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 30, 2015)

boohoo said:


> You forgot burnt out cars.



It was a very bad time....very very bad...in the days beofore champagne and cheese


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## teuchter (Jan 30, 2015)

editor said:


> I didn't realise Brixton was gentrified in 1995.


Gentrifiers tend not to recognise themselves as such.


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## boohoo (Jan 30, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> It was a very bad time....very very bad...in the days beofore champagne and cheese



Never saw four together. Two but not four. And the empty land had prefabs.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 30, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Never saw four together. Two but not four. And the empty land had prefabs.



This is pre-prefab.


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## peterkro (Jan 30, 2015)

Until recently I'd lived in Brixton since 1976 and the stories about crack houses and stabbing being as common as conservative racism is bollocks,believe me I dealt with street dealers (mainly class A's) for a long time and on the whole they were decent people.
What's more important to me is the resistance driving the NF out of Brixton,the attempted firebombing of Union place which resulted in a fascist being banged up for a long time.
I've seen people kick the shit out of muggers trying to rob tourists,I've seen women do the same to gropers in the market,the people who helped each other in the aftermath of the riots(I'd be in jail now if my lying witness's weren't better than the police ones) this revisionist history of Brixton of the wild west before the arrival of the civilising potential home owners is just that bollocks.
The comradeship between the various groups (gay,women,anarchists,trots,maoists all sorts was a sight to behold something that has unfortunately has receded in recent decades).


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## SarfLondoner (Jan 30, 2015)

editor said:


> Not sure what period you're talking about here, but I don't recall living in anything anywhere near as bad as that - and I've been in the 'notorious' Barrier Block for over 20 years and visiting Brixton for a lot longer.
> 
> And while I won't deny that things have been particularly grim at times, for every minus point in that list, there was plenty of plus points about living here, many of which have long since disappeared.
> 
> It seems that in modern Brixton, the amount of enjoyment you get out of the place is far more linked in with how much money you've got - and there's still plenty of people here who haven't got very much at all.


The nineties and early 2000's. Do you not remember the shootings,muggings,stabbings,crack dens,empty run down houses, A stretch of coldharbour lane from dogstar to the ritzy that had an open crack market with an alledged turn over of a million £ a year.Angel town another open crack market,St matthews estate prostitution and crack, Shakespeare road untold crack dens. I could go on and on, It was fucking grim and dangerous and whilst i don't like or agree with a lot of the things happening in Brixton (and London) today and yes there was a community feeling and togetherness in some form,i wouldn't want to go back to that way of living nor do i want my kids or anyone elses to have witness that shit.


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## boohoo (Jan 30, 2015)

peterkro I think we all have different versions of events depending on which part of the large area defined as Brixton we lived in, when we lived in it and what age we were. My story of growing up in council housing will be different from those in Stockwell gardens Estate and Stockwell Park estate.


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## boohoo (Jan 30, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> This is pre-prefab.



That would be after WW2?


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 30, 2015)

boohoo said:


> That would be after WW2?



I was thinking some time after the first Mad Max...


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## leanderman (Jan 30, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> The nineties and early 2000's. Do you not remember the shootings,muggings,stabbings,crack dens,empty run down houses, A stretch of coldharbour lane from dogstar to the ritzy that had an open crack market with an alledged turn over of a million £ a year.Angel town another open crack market,St matthews estate prostitution and crack, Shakespeare road untold crack dens. I could go on and on, It was fucking grim and dangerous and whilst i don't like or agree with a lot of the things happening in Brixton (and London) today and yes there was a community feeling and togetherness in some form,i wouldn't want to go back to that way of living nor do i want my kids or anyone elses to have witness that shit.



On moving to this road in 2006, I had not bargained for police riflemen to be using our front garden to cover a raid on a crack house opposite. Or for prostitutes to be pleasuring clients in cars parked outside our front door. I don't miss that.


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## SarfLondoner (Jan 30, 2015)

peterkro said:


> Until recently I'd lived in Brixton since 1976 and the stories about crack houses and stabbing being as common as conservative racism is bollocks,believe me I dealt with street dealers (mainly class A's) for a long time and on the whole they were decent people.
> What's more important to me is the resistance driving the NF out of Brixton,the attempted firebombing of Union place which resulted in a fascist being banged up for a long time.
> I've seen people kick the shit out of muggers trying to rob tourists,I've seen women do the same to gropers in the market,the people who helped each other in the aftermath of the riots(I'd be in jail now if my lying witness's weren't better than the police ones) this revisionist history of Brixton of the wild west before the arrival of the civilising potential home owners is just that bollocks.
> The comradeship between the various groups (gay,women,anarchists,trots,maoists all sorts was a sight to behold something that has unfortunately has receded in recent decades).



I agree with a lot of what you say but not the first paragraph, Decent people? The weed dealers maybe but the crack and heroin dealers, No chance, I can't find anything decent about someone who sells lethal and highly addictive drugs,Someone who lives by the gun,Someone who manipulates and bullies a mentally ill person into using there home as a crack den,Someone who has teenage girls selling themselves for there next fix.Someone that would stab you for an unpaid drug debt. I worked in a local cab office throughout the nineties and believe me there was crack houses and dealers everywhere.They keep our office and a few more in business when times were tough.


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## SarfLondoner (Jan 30, 2015)

leanderman said:


> On moving to this road in 2006, I had not bargained for police riflemen to be using our front garden to cover a raid on a crack house opposite. Or for prostitutes to be pleasuring clients in cars parked outside our front door. I don't miss that.



You got the brunt of it up on the hill,Thats when it was pushed out of central Brixton.Same happened in the west end around Leicester square and Soho.The old bill pushed it on to Euston and Kings cross. Not in my backyard attitude but not a solution.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 30, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> I agree with a lot of what you say but not the first paragraph, Decent people? The weed dealers maybe but the crack and heroin dealers, No chance, I can't find anything decent about someone who sells lethal and highly addictive drugs,Someone who lives by the gun,Someone who manipulates and bullies a mentally ill person into using there home as a crack den,Someone who has teenage girls selling themselves for there next fix.Someone that would stab you for an unpaid drug debt. I worked in a local cab office throughout the nineties and believe me there was crack houses and dealers everywhere.*They keep our office and a few more in business when times were tough*.



Nothing decent about them and their activities, but I'll have their money...


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## SarfLondoner (Jan 30, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Nothing decent about them and their activities, but I'll have their money...


I wasn't a driver.I didn't take there money. i was using it as point to explain how many dealers there were. Is that okay with you?


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## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Gentrifiers tend not to recognise themselves as such.


Not bothering with your nonsense, sorry.


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## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

peterkro said:


> The comradeship between the various groups (gay,women,anarchists,trots,maoists all sorts was a sight to behold something that has unfortunately has receded in recent decades).


Spot on. And that is indeed some of what we've lost.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jan 30, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> I wasn't a driver.I didn't take there money. i was using it as point to explain how many dealers there were. Is that okay with you?



You didn't work for free did you?


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## peterkro (Jan 30, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> I agree with a lot of what you say but not the first paragraph, Decent people? The weed dealers maybe but the crack and heroin dealers, No chance, I can't find anything decent about someone who sells lethal and highly addictive drugs,Someone who lives by the gun,Someone who manipulates and bullies a mentally ill person into using there home as a crack den,Someone who has teenage girls selling themselves for there next fix.Someone that would stab you for an unpaid drug debt. I worked in a local cab office throughout the nineties and believe me there was crack houses and dealers everywhere.They keep our office and a few more in business when times were tough.


OK I can to agree to disagree.I've met (particularly one woman who supplied me when I worked at the Fridge and who some years later while visiting her niece who was my neighbour came up and hugged me and started crying because she'd left the life and so had I,wonderful woman) many people like that,Chemis for instance who'd been selling weed since the mid fifties.
One thing I remember clearly is buying a rock off a street dealer on Christmas eve one night in the late seventies,with no obvious reward he gave me an extra one and waltzed of with a very cheery "happy Xmas".
I agree with your general comment about the crims who operate on exploitative money making and the sex,slave trade etc.But on the user level it's not like that,most are decent people who are trying to hang on they are using the product and are generally generous as well as sound.
By the way you didn't work for the cab office near the Green Man by any chance,I was a farmer for a while and knew most of the drivers who where honest to a person. 
.


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## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

peterkro said:


> OK I can to agree to disagree.I've met (particularly one woman who supplied me when I worked at the Fridge and who some years later while visiting her niece who was my neighbour came up and hugged me and started crying because she'd left the life and so had I,wonderful woman) many people like that,Chemis for instance who'd been selling weed since the mid fifties.
> One thing I remember clearly is buying a rock off a street dealer on Christmas eve one night in the late seventies,with no obvious reward he gave me an extra one and waltzed of with a very cheery "happy Xmas".
> I agree with your general comment about the crims who operate on exploitative money making and the sex,slave trade etc.But on the user level it's not like that,most are decent people who are trying to hang on they are using the product and are generally generous as well as sound.
> By the way you didn't work for the cab office near the Green Man by any chance,I was a farmer for a while and knew most of the drivers who where honest to a person.


I always remember the female heroin addict (whose name annoyingly escapes me right now) warning that buffoon MacIntyre to stop waving his phone around on Coldharbour Lane when he was so desperately trying to get mugged for his silly TV show.


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## peterkro (Jan 30, 2015)

editor said:


> I always remember the female heroin addict (whose name annoyingly escapes me right now) warning that buffoon MacIntyre to stop waving his phone around on Coldharbour Lane when he was so desperately trying to get mugged for his silly TV show.


The stolen laptop scene from that show was filmed outside a mates flat,he was there for hours before a couple of blokes took him up on his flashing a laptop around and took it off him.(Myatts  Field)


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## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

peterkro said:


> The stolen laptop scene from that show was filmed outside a mates flat,he was there for hours before a couple of blokes took him up on his flashing a laptop around and took it off him.(Myatts  Field)


It was embarrassing to watch - and it also proves that many of the myths about Brixton being some sort of lawless hellhole were just that - myths.


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## Gramsci (Jan 30, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> people with the power and wealth to do so tend to believe that they only have the same power as everyone else.  it's very sad, but it leads to attitudes like elmpps, were they consider that having a class analysis, however crude, to be an actual mortal sin.



I have been getting through Danny Dorling book Injustice

Is a a social scientist and geographer. One of the things he looks at is how inequality ( which he says is injustice) gets normalised.

I was thinking of this row here about calling people "yuppies" and Dorlings book this evening

Went to an office in the City this evening with an urgent letter. As it was getting late I went into main reception and for some reason the security guard let me in to go up the lifts to the floor the company was on. Normally at these big new swanky development you have to go into the underground labyrinth that all these big office developments have.

So I went through the massive glass ground floor reception area to the bank of express lifts. Went up to the office with glass to floor windows with great views. The two receptionists looked like models.

Said to the receptionist it was first time been up here as normally go into the underground loading bay. ( the home of post rooms, kitchen staff and delivery men with two grotty goods lifts.)

The both pulled faces at the thought of having to go to loading bay.

On the way out I got the third degree from the head security guard ( these big offices have loads of them) wanting to know why I was let in. ( As I was clearly an interloper who sneaked in where its not my place to be)

What I mean to say is that for lots of people in there working lives they are treated in a way that denigrates them. But its normalised as that just how things are. No one really looks at it that closely. The world of the city makes sure that the lower orders are seen as little as possible.  But if anyone makes a comment referring to "yuppies" that’s out of order here.

I myself do not use word yuppie as it not my style here. Well most of the time. Rather do sober analysis.

edited to add. Just reminded myself of Stephan Frears excellent film "Dirty Pretty Things"

At one point the Chiwetel Ejiofor as Okwe the illegal immigrant working in London says that "We are the people who you do not see" of his job in hotel.


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## editor (Jan 30, 2015)

Was that critical mass that just pedalled through Brixton?


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## editor (Jan 30, 2015)




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## friendofdorothy (Jan 31, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> I would rather have "todays" Brixton than old Brixton where the night time (and day) economy was a crack and heroin market, empty shops and crack houses every 10 feet, No go areas,estates where the postman had a police escort, Junkies piping crack and banging up heroin in stairwells and doorways,Muggings at knifepoint, prostitution,arguments settled with a shoot out. Dealers jumping into your car whist sat in the coldharbour lane traffic. I like a bit of nostalgia but fuck that.



My niece and sister-out-law lived on Stockwell park estate circa 1985.  Taxis refused to go into the estate. Organised crime sold keys to flats.  The garages at street level were open and scary to walk by - it didn't feel good. Maybe it was it the folly of youth, but it felt normal - I worried for my young niece but never for ourselves. Living up north before they caught the Yorkshire ripper seemed much more dangerous.

I lived off the Camberwell end of Coldharbour lane in the early nineties - and used to regularly walk home from the tube without incident. The dealers near the Atlantic would all call out, but never bothered me.  When a teenage girl was shot some were near the Albert - caught in the cross fire I thought, hell these idiots can't even aim - so I did re think my route home. As I often was coming home very late and often liked to go to the sort of clubs where clothes were optional (I had a nice big coat) - so I got on first name terms with many cab drivers.

In the mid nineties I could walk though Brixton without problem, but I looked quite femme, where as my dykey looking grrl and most of the gay men I knew always got aggro/ abuse. There was alot of queer bashing. I always felt safe in the Albert back then.

Yes there was a shooting at the end of my street, next door were dealing somthing, I knew there were crack dens near by, and street prostitution a few streets away - These things can happen anywhere. But on the whole I always found Brixton people to be ok.   I heard of knifepoint muggings on the front line - but when I had an accident on Railton road, I had an old lady holding my hand praying for me, a man calling an ambulance and someone doing first aid, people were so kind. A complete stranger tooK my shopping and brought it to my home the next day.

Streets everywhere have always been dangerous places for women - I never felt Brixton was any worse than any where else.


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## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

It's snowing. Finally!


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## shakespearegirl (Jan 31, 2015)

It's more like slushing than snowing


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## boohoo (Jan 31, 2015)

ricbake said:


> http://lambeth.gov.uk/elections-and-council/finance-and-payments/financial-information-guide
> 
> Lambeth paid £1,345,335.91 to 26 providers of Bed and breakfast during the month of December 2014



We were offered a room in b & b for £280 a week in 2013 - so that means that that money serves 1200 rooms over the month. It would be better to support people finding good landlords who will keep rent rises to a minimum and give some security. (I'm not sure this room cost covers council tax)

Although I would rather see it spent on increasing social housing.

ETA - we moved to a two bed on the outskirts of West Norwood for £229 a week plus £61 in bills. That's £290 - that's a whole extra 4 rooms for nearly the same price.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 31, 2015)

Yeah, tough on the poor, tough on the causes of poor. Never mind that the posh have misappropriated every value the working class ever held.

We can only make the streets safe by having more posh, get the posh on the council estates, get rid of the council estates; let's just have hollowed out government in fancy new buildings serving the posh while the poor sit indoors, self disconnecting waiting for eviction.

The biggest transfer of wealth in history, not content with making us slaves in their service economy, not content with stealing our homes, they want our very identity. The posh usurpers consider themselves as the new working class and the poor as nothing more than barbarians.


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## Mr Retro (Jan 31, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> Went to an office in the City this evening with an urgent letter. As it was getting late I went into main reception and for some reason the security guard let me in to go up the lifts to the floor the company was on. Normally at these big new swanky development you have to go into the underground labyrinth that all these big office developments have.
> 
> So I went through the massive glass ground floor reception area to the bank of express lifts. Went up to the office with glass to floor windows with great views. The two receptionists looked like models.
> 
> ...


Your point about the normalization of injustice and people being denigrated in their working life is totally correct Gramsci. However this kind of complaint above is contrived and it makes real the injustice more normal in its own way, creating noise around the point by complaining about nothing.

The security guard should not have left you in there in the first place, getting the third degree on the way out is correct because you could have been anybody. That's just security doing their job, not a comment on you not being out of your place. 

It's irrelevant how the receptionists and office looked - did they really both pull faces at the thought of having to go to loading bay?

Loading bays and service areas by their nature they have to be underground and labyrinthine. That's just practical. And what do you expect for the lift in a loading bay that takes in pallets and all manner of heavy goods? Carpets and low level lighting? I've worked in these places. You don't give a fuck if it's grotty, you don't want to be seen, you want things to work quickly and reliably and people to stay out of your way so you can do your job.  

I also worked in New York on building sites in the early 90's. I was paid $80 a day as a laborer and the Mexicans I worked with got $40-$50. Because they were Mexican. Now that's real denigration and much worse. I have many more stories like it from my working career. Your story above just doesn't fit in.


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## AnotherAmbition (Jan 31, 2015)

Anyone know whats been going on on Electric Avenue for the past week or so? Steady stream of sewage trucks pumping from out the back of one of the butchers. Bottom half of the Market has been closed for the last few days.


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## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

editor said:


> It was embarrassing to watch - and it also proves that many of the myths about Brixton being some sort of lawless hellhole were just that - myths.



It was in some parts.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2002/jun/23/drugsandalcohol.drugs
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/police-seize-alleged-drug-boss-6972751.html


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## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> My niece and sister-out-law lived on Stockwell park estate circa 1985.  Taxis refused to go into the estate. Organised crime sold keys to flats.  The garages at street level were open and scary to walk by - it didn't feel good. Maybe it was it the folly of youth, but it felt normal - I worried for my young niece but never for ourselves. Living up north before they caught the Yorkshire ripper seemed much more dangerous.
> 
> I lived off the Camberwell end of Coldharbour lane in the early nineties - and used to regularly walk home from the tube without incident. The dealers near the Atlantic would all call out, but never bothered me.  When a teenage girl was shot some were near the Albert - caught in the cross fire I thought, hell these idiots can't even aim - so I did re think my route home. As I often was coming home very late and often liked to go to the sort of clubs where clothes were optional (I had a nice big coat) - so I got on first name terms with many cab drivers.
> 
> ...


So apart from the shootings,muggings and stabbings it was fine.


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## passivejoe (Jan 31, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Gentrifiers tend not to recognise themselves as such.



How would a gentrifier recognise themselves? I don't know whether I'm a gentrifier or not. I've lived in Brixton for 15 years, I bought a squat and renovated it while I lived in it over a period of 8 years. In fact, I've moved home twice and both times renovated semi-derelict houses. I've used whatever facilities in Brixton have been available to me at times when I've needed them... the library, the Rec, the parks, the Ritzy, most of the supermarkets, I used to shop mainly down Electric avenue but rely more on supermarket delivery now that I have kids and much less time. I now get coffee most days in Granville Arcade, treat myself to expensive cake sometimes. 

As Brixton has changed, my life has changed and my use of the facilities has changed. But does that make me a gentrifier?


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## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> It was in some parts.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/society/2002/jun/23/drugsandalcohol.drugs
> http://www.standard.co.uk/news/police-seize-alleged-drug-boss-6972751.html


I don't think anyone is claiming things couldn't be grim at times, but it was nowhere near as bad as some claim.


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## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

shakespearegirl said:


> It's more like slushing than snowing


It wasn't great. But it was a start! MOAR pleased!


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## Manter (Jan 31, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> My niece and sister-out-law lived on Stockwell park estate circa 1985.  Taxis refused to go into the estate. Organised crime sold keys to flats.  The garages at street level were open and scary to walk by - it didn't feel good. Maybe it was it the folly of youth, but it felt normal - I worried for my young niece but never for ourselves. Living up north before they caught the Yorkshire ripper seemed much more dangerous.
> 
> I lived off the Camberwell end of Coldharbour lane in the early nineties - and used to regularly walk home from the tube without incident. The dealers near the Atlantic would all call out, but never bothered me.  When a teenage girl was shot some were near the Albert - caught in the cross fire I thought, hell these idiots can't even aim - so I did re think my route home. As I often was coming home very late and often liked to go to the sort of clubs where clothes were optional (I had a nice big coat) - so I got on first name terms with many cab drivers.
> 
> ...


One thing I will say is that people are still people and generally kind- when I was mugged walking home from the station - about 2 and a half years ago now- three cars stopped to see if I was ok, a total stranger hugged me while I cried, another total stranger called the police because my hands were shaking too much to use the phone, yet another gave up an hour of his evening to drive around with the police and see if he could identify the guys that did it- they didn't care that my suit and laptop marked me as 'a gentrifier', they just responded to another human in distress. That hasn't, IME, changed about Brixton, or many other places in the world. I've experienced random acts of kindness from all sorts of people in all sorts of situations over the years, from rich people and poor people and any situation in between.   Some of the people on here vilified for being capitalist parasites have been very kind to me; some of those who address the middle classes with barely disguised hatred have likewise helped me and supported me at various times.

That's my discomfort with class based analysis- not that I don't understand and recognise there is structural inequality. It reduces people to a role, set in opposition to another role. Whereas my experience is that people are people, and we are better placed to work together to make the world a better place rather than spitting bile at people because they are 'middle class' 'working class' 'posh' or 'poor'

(Christ I sound like a hippy, apologies)


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## shakespearegirl (Jan 31, 2015)

editor said:


> It wasn't great. But it was a start! MOAR pleased!
> 
> View attachment 67075



That was all gone by the time I woke up. Bloody cold out though


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## teuchter (Jan 31, 2015)

passivejoe said:


> How would a gentrifier recognise themselves? I don't know whether I'm a gentrifier or not. I've lived in Brixton for 15 years, I bought a squat and renovated it while I lived in it over a period of 8 years. In fact, I've moved home twice and both times renovated semi-derelict houses. I've used whatever facilities in Brixton have been available to me at times when I've needed them... the library, the Rec, the parks, the Ritzy, most of the supermarkets, I used to shop mainly down Electric avenue but rely more on supermarket delivery now that I have kids and much less time. I now get coffee most days in Granville Arcade, treat myself to expensive cake sometimes.
> 
> As Brixton has changed, my life has changed and my use of the facilities has changed. But does that make me a gentrifier?


Probably...it's hard to say for certain. But that's the point really, it's fairly straightforward to identify that a process of gentrification is taking place, more difficult to identify whether or not specific individuals are "gentrifiers". Easier just to lump them together in some kind of group like poshos or yuppies or whatever - preferably a group that you reckon doesn't include yourself, of course.


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## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

Little photo feature: 






The precarious garage of Raeburn Street, Brixton


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## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Probably...it's hard to say for certain. But that's the point really, it's fairly straightforward to identify that a process of gentrification is taking place, more difficult to identify whether or not specific individuals are "gentrifiers". Easier just to lump them together in some kind of group like poshos or yuppies or whatever - preferably a group that you reckon doesn't include yourself, of course.


Ah, you mean like lumping them all together to make a statement like,  'Gentrifiers tend not to recognise themselves as such'?


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## boohoo (Jan 31, 2015)

editor said:


> I don't think anyone is claiming things couldn't be grim at times, but it was nowhere near as bad as some claim.



I think it depends where you were living and your situation. There is a huge difference to what is going on in the street outside my parents in the late 70s, early 80s to how it is now. But we had it easier than those living in the rough estates.


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## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

boohoo said:


> I think it depends where you were living and your situation. There is a huge difference to what is going on in the street outside my parents in the late 70s, early 80s to how it is now. But we had it easier than those living in the rough estates.


Of course it will be different for different people, but I can only say that of course it was grim at times, but it was never the kind of lawless hellhole described by some - and I was living in (ahem) 'London's most dangerous street' in what was seen as one of the roughest estates in Lambeth. I never want those times to come back again of course, but I refuse to accept the oft peddled notion that Brixton is uniformly 'better' now. We've gained and lost a lot.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

editor said:


> I don't think anyone is claiming things couldn't be grim at times, but it was nowhere near as bad as some claim.


It was grim full stop from the late eighties and all the way through the nineties. How bad is bad? Shootings,stabbings,prostitution,kidnapping,robbery, Can you get any worse than that? Ask an ex resident of Clifton mansions what is was like in there courtyard at 4 am in the morning.


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> It was grim full stop from the late eighties and all the way through the nineties. How bad is bad? Shootings,stabbings,prostitution,kidnapping,robbery, Can you get any worse than that? Ask an ex resident of Clifton mansions what is was like in there courtyard at 4 am in the morning.


We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm afraid. And what percentage of people living in Brixton do you think were shot, stabbed or kidnapped? These things happened but they were hardly the everyday norm for the vast majority of residents.


----------



## Ditdotdat (Jan 31, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Probably...it's hard to say for certain. But that's the point really, it's fairly straightforward to identify that a process of gentrification is taking place, more difficult to identify whether or not specific individuals are "gentrifiers". Easier just to lump them together in some kind of group like poshos or yuppies or whatever - preferably a group that you reckon doesn't include yourself, of course.



I hope that I'm a gentrifier. I want to make the block that I live in more beautiful, more desirable, better to live in. I'd like the people who live here to feel like it's not the sort of place where you write something on the wall of the lift. I'd also like that process to go on everywhere in Brixton and Streatham.

I've lived around here for 30 years, from a squat in Clapham North to a big house near Herne Hill and lots of other places in-between. The only improvement I've ever seen in any area has been driven by people who've moved in from outside. The locals and the council are never able or willing to make things better.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

It was an open drugs market where the dealers had little or no regard for the law,They openly dealt drugs to anyone that wanted them.From the Ritzy to Dogstar 24/7 they controlled that patch often laughing at the old bill as they drove by.It went on for over a decade and if that's not lawlessness i don't know what is.


----------



## boohoo (Jan 31, 2015)

editor I do see an improvement. Much of the social housing has improved so that conditions aren't as bad. The Stockwell Park Estate was hugely improved as a place to live by the hard work of some of the residences. There are still problems that need to be address and the new issues of people being pushed out of the area, communities broken up and the removal of businesses serving local needs to be replaced with spaces which are serving a few.

My childhood in Brixton and Stockwell saw violent crime after dark,  dereliction and poverty - it doesn't mean that these things don't exist now but I do believe it isn't as bad as it was.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 31, 2015)

It was the poor that were the victims in the past, the posh were nowhere to be seen. It is sad to see some working class posters so utterly aroused by the clumsy seducers peddling their Tory filth.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

editor said:


> We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm afraid. And what percentage of people living in Brixton do you think were shot, stabbed or kidnapped? These things happened but they were hardly the everyday norm for the vast majority of residents.



You are in a dream world, Now you are asking for stats.Who said the people shot or stabbed lived in Brixton? Brixton was a known open drugs market where people from all around London travelled to for there gear. Did it have to happen everyday for it to be an issue? Do you deny that there wasn't a million pound plus drugs trade in operation?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> It was the poor that were the victims in the past, the posh were nowhere to be seen. It is sad to see some working class posters so utterly aroused by the clumsy seducers peddling their Tory filth.


Bullshit.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 31, 2015)

It's very subjective, isn't it. I recall feeling mostly comfortable with Brixton since I've lived here. But you get used to what you know and it seems normal. I would always be reminded of that when I'd mention in conversation removing syringes, crack pipes and turds from my garden every week, which seemed quite every day to me yet would leave people literally speechless.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 31, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> I would rather have "todays" Brixton than old Brixton where the night time (and day) economy was a crack and heroin market, empty shops and crack houses every 10 feet, No go areas,estates where the postman had a police escort, Junkies piping crack and banging up heroin in stairwells and doorways,Muggings at knifepoint, prostitution,arguments settled with a shoot out. Dealers jumping into your car whist sat in the coldharbour lane traffic. I like a bit of nostalgia but fuck that.



Yeah, empty shops and crack houses every ten feet.
If you're trying to make a point, it's best to be accurate, not hyperbolic.
And guess what? the crime still happens, it's just been shifted away from where it was visible to where it's less visible.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 31, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> what do you do for a living?  do you have any unearned income from property etc.  what's your relationship to capital?



As long as he's not a _rentier_, I think that Proletarian Democracy (TM) should issue him with a provisional licence to live.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 31, 2015)

boohoo said:


> You forgot burnt out cars.



And half-dismantled Ford Cortinas in front gardens, blues parties in every second flat on Stockwell Park estate, and not being able to walk down the part of Brixton Water Lane between Tulse and Brixton Hills without stepping on spunk-filled condoms, sharps, crack pipes or dead sex workers.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 31, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> it's also not actually what i'm saying.  i'm not talking about individuals.  i'm talking about _the system_.  which you presumably knew, because you're smart enough to use a computer without injuring yourself, but you'd love to present yourself as gentle tolerant types whilst the mean lefties peddle their bigotry.



Does that mean I'm a "mean leftie"?
 Cool!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 31, 2015)

editor said:


> Not sure what period you're talking about here, but I don't recall living in anything anywhere near as bad as that - and I've been in the 'notorious' Barrier Block for over 20 years and visiting Brixton for a lot longer.



And before then, in the '80s, most of the dealing, prostitution and general nastiness was confined to a handful of estates, a couple of which (Clapham Park and the Brandon estate in Kennington) weren't even in Brixton.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

editor said:


> Not sure what period you're talking about here, but I don't recall living in anything anywhere near as bad as that - and I've been in the 'notorious' Barrier Block for over 20 years and visiting Brixton for a lot longer.
> 
> And while I won't deny that things have been particularly grim at times, for every minus point in that list, there was plenty of plus points about living here, many of which have long since disappeared.
> 
> It seems that in modern Brixton, the amount of enjoyment you get out of the place is far more linked in with how much money you've got - and there's still plenty of people here who haven't got very much at all.






* editor Got a fever +the only prescription is more cowbell *

3. No-one has yet explained to me what is so horrifically unbearable about having drug dealers living or working in your vicinity.
Maybe it's something to do with the increased likelihood of being mugged/robbed or randomly assaulted by their crackhead customers, having crack prostitutes using your doorway for sex with customers or having to step over dangerous used needles on the kids play area outside?

There's only_ one_ street in London that I won't walk down at night and guess what - it's where the crack dealers operate!


Your point of view has changed since 2005.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Yeah, empty shops and crack houses every ten feet.
> If you're trying to make a point, it's best to be accurate, not hyperbolic.
> And guess what? the crime still happens, it's just been shifted away from where it was visible to where it's less visible.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 31, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


>



Are you implying that your post wasn't hyperbolic?


----------



## AnotherAmbition (Jan 31, 2015)

Live shot of the ongoing sewage works....


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## AnotherAmbition (Jan 31, 2015)

AnotherAmbition said:


> Anyone know whats been going on on Electric Avenue for the past week or so? Steady stream of sewage trucks pumping from out the back of one of the butchers. Bottom half of the Market has been closed for the last few days.



Live shot of the ongoing sewage works....


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## teuchter (Jan 31, 2015)

editor said:


> Ah, you mean like lumping them all together to make a statement like,  'Gentrifiers tend not to recognise themselves as such'?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 31, 2015)

Brixton has had some troubled times. I remember not being able to go home one night cos a guy had been shot through the head in his car outside my house.

There were crack houses, and Coldharbour Lane could be a difficult road to navigate without being propositioned for drugs or sex.

It wasn't some crime apocalypse though. The world wasn't collapsing around us. It was a bit grim.

I raised a child to 18 years of age here and he's seen relatively little trouble, even the two times he was mugged it was done quite politely....

I've been here for over 20 years and the worst I've faced directly was a bunch of teen girls attacking me with umbrellas because I stepped in as they attacked a gay couple. That was around 20 years ago, and was more funny than it was harmful.

I think some people enjoy perpetuating the myth that it was some kind of lawless mega city one style hell hole.

It really wasn't...


----------



## boohoo (Jan 31, 2015)

What I hate about this conversation is I'm having to justify my memories of my childhood to a lot of you.
I don't know if  Nanker Phelge and  ViolentPanda are mocking my memory of burnt out cars.
But it feels pretty shit to be told that my experience and perception is not quite right.  And often by people who landed here in the 1990s.

I don't expect you to all share the same views as me - I was a child and a teenager in the 1970s and 1980s and some of you were grow-ups. I respect the differences and recognise that being in a different place in a different time at a different age will create different opinions.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 31, 2015)

My impression (landing in 1999) was that things had changed a fair bit between the 80s and 90s. Certainly at that point it seemed that many people's impression of what Brixton was "like" seemed quite a lot out of whack with the reality and I took that to be because their information was maybe 10 years out of date rather than 50. This is people from other parts of London, not folk who'd never actually been to Brixton but had seen the riots on the news (whose imagination of what it was like was even further divorced from reality).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 31, 2015)

boohoo said:


> What I hate about this conversation is I'm having to justify my memories of my childhood to a lot of you.
> I don't know if  Nanker Phelge and  ViolentPanda are mocking my memory of burnt out cars.
> But it feels pretty shit to be told that my experience and perception is not quite right.  And often by people who landed here in the 1990s.



I'm not telling you your "experience is not quite right",and neither am I mocking your memory, I'm simply saying that yes, that shit happened, but that what SarfLondoner claimed - there being a crack den or empty shop every ten feet, and dealers, sex workers and ne'er-do-wells so thick on the ground you couldn't move for treading on them, is hyperbolic bull in much the same way as "the Winter of Discontent" is - it's people remembering the edited horror highlights rather than any of the good or even indifferent bits of life in and around Brixton from the '70s to the '90s. Yes, bits of Brixton (in fact of Lambeth) could be scary, but they weren't the murderous claustrophobic hell-holes they're sometimes portrayed as, either.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Are you implying that your post wasn't hyperbolic?


Yes.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jan 31, 2015)

I don't remember Brixton being particularly bad when I was growing up in the 80s—if anything I thought it was better than most, given that it had a proper high street and (as I got older) clubs—but then I did grow up in Tulse Hill and tbh it was just another shitty dismal part of shitty dismal South London. I'd still have much rather wandered around Brixton than, say, Norwood.

The whole area has definitely got better since that time but not because of gentrification, which has been relatively recent and simply will never provide the deep structural changes that are necessary to improve an area. I'm sure I don't need to go on a rant on that point.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jan 31, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> Yes.



Then I suspect you're deluded. Apart from anything else it's impossible to have empty shops and crack houses every 10ft, because the average frontage for a shop is 12-14 feet, and more for a house.
So, hyperbole.

As for the rest of your post, as I've said previously,*yes*, all of that shit happened, but not in the non-stop, intense way you imply, and not all at the same time. As for "no go areas", I'm a white bloke, and never found trouble on any of my nocturnal peregrinations around Brixton. A couple of propositions from sex workers on the corner of Josephine Ave and Water Lane, but scarcely "no go". Even when my own estate was notorious for sex workers fucking clients on our stairwells and banging up, it wasn't a "no go area", unless your sensibilities were so delicate that the sight of human misery roused nausea in you, rather than compassion.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 31, 2015)

boohoo said:


> What I hate about this conversation is I'm having to justify my memories of my childhood to a lot of you.
> I don't know if  Nanker Phelge and  ViolentPanda are mocking my memory of burnt out cars.
> But it feels pretty shit to be told that my experience and perception is not quite right.  And often by people who landed here in the 1990s.
> 
> I don't expect you to all share the same views as me - I was a child and a teenager in the 1970s and 1980s and some of you were grow-ups. I respect the differences and recognise that being in a different place in a different time at a different age will create different opinions.



I wasnt responding to you at all. I witnessed burnt out cars too.


----------



## CH1 (Jan 31, 2015)

Rushy said:


> It's very subjective, isn't it. I recall feeling mostly comfortable with Brixton since I've lived here. But you get used to what you know and it seems normal. I would always be reminded of that when I'd mention in conversation removing syringes, crack pipes and turds from my garden every week, which seemed quite every day to me yet would leave people literally speechless.


I can only recall 1 turd (in 1997 I think) and hardly any syringes - but my frontage on Coldharbour Lane is amply supplied with wheelie bins.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> I'm not telling you your "experience is not quite right",and neither am I mocking your memory, I'm simply saying that yes, that shit happened, but that what SarfLondoner claimed - there being a crack den or empty shop every ten feet, and dealers, sex workers and ne'er-do-wells so thick on the ground you couldn't move for treading on them, is hyperbolic bull in much the same way as "the Winter of Discontent" is - it's people remembering the edited horror highlights rather than any of the good or even indifferent bits of life in and around Brixton from the '70s to the '90s. Yes, bits of Brixton (in fact of Lambeth) could be scary, but they weren't the murderous claustrophobic hell-holes they're sometimes portrayed as, either.



You are right,I have made it all up,I never witnessed none of it,There was no drugs market,No murders,no prostitutes,No crack houses. As for hyperbolic " sex workers and ne'er-do-wells so thick on the ground you couldn't move for treading on them",  is your very own bit of hyperbole.


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## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Then I suspect you're deluded. Apart from anything else it's impossible to have empty shops and crack houses every 10ft, because the average frontage for a shop is 12-14 feet, and more for a house.
> So, hyperbole.
> 
> As for the rest of your post, as I've said previously,*yes*, all of that shit happened, but not in the non-stop, intense way you imply, and not all at the same time. As for "no go areas", I'm a white bloke, and never found trouble on any of my nocturnal peregrinations around Brixton. A couple of propositions from sex workers on the corner of Josephine Ave and Water Lane, but scarcely "no go". Even when my own estate was notorious for sex workers fucking clients on our stairwells and banging up, it wasn't a "no go area", unless your sensibilities were so delicate that the sight of human misery roused nausea in you, rather than compassion.


----------



## Rushy (Jan 31, 2015)

CH1 said:


> I can only recall 1 turd (in 1997 I think) and hardly any syringes - but my frontage on Coldharbour Lane is amply supplied with wheelie bins.


I've always found it quite tricky to shit in a wheelie bin unless someone holds it steady for you.

One offering in particular is engrained in my memory. He was either a very big chap or accompanied by an ox. I actually took people down the garden to show them. Come to think of it, I haven't seen some of those people since.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 31, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> So apart from the shootings,muggings and stabbings it was fine.


 Yes, I was agreeing with you, thats how I remember it.  It was grim in parts, at times. The drugs issue in the 90s was outrageous with all the related disorder and violence. Brixton did have a deserved bad reputation, but other towns and cities had similar problems too.

I suppose the point I was making that despite all that crime, Brixton was still a great place.  There was such a interesting mix of people from different places and so many cultured, political and creative people. But like someone said earlier, people are people - there was kindness, fun and good times too, I don't think thats too nostalgic.  I used to say - you can say what you like about Brixton but its never dull.


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 31, 2015)

boohoo said:


> editor I do see an improvement. Much of the social housing has improved so that conditions aren't as bad. The Stockwell Park Estate was hugely improved as a place to live by the hard work of some of the residences. There are still problems that need to be address and the new issues of people being pushed out of the area, communities broken up and the removal of businesses serving local needs to be replaced with spaces which are serving a few.
> 
> My childhood in Brixton and Stockwell saw violent crime after dark,  dereliction and poverty - it doesn't mean that these things don't exist now but I do believe it isn't as bad as it was.



I walked around the stockwell park with my niece (35yr old) last summer to look at her childhood haunts.  The design of that estate was horrible - designed for men in cars. Some bits of the estate are unrecognisable from back then - it looks so much better now. Looked like they had converted some garages into homes, improved paths, entrances, access, etc.

I hate the demolishion of council homes to make way for 'the junction' private expensive flats.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jan 31, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Then I suspect you're deluded. Apart from anything else it's impossible to have empty shops and crack houses every 10ft, because the average frontage for a shop is 12-14 feet, and more for a house.
> So, hyperbole.
> 
> As for the rest of your post, as I've said previously,*yes*, all of that shit happened, but not in the non-stop, intense way you imply, and not all at the same time. As for "no go areas", I'm a white bloke, and never found trouble on any of my nocturnal peregrinations around Brixton. A couple of propositions from sex workers on the corner of Josephine Ave and Water Lane, but scarcely "no go". Even when my own estate was notorious for sex workers fucking clients on our stairwells and banging up, it wasn't a "no go area", unless your sensibilities were so delicate that the sight of human misery roused nausea in you, rather than compassion.


Don't think SarfLondoner is deluded or suffers from delicate sensibilities. 
There where some 'no go' areas for cabs, deliveries, police. I don't think he did imply it was non stop intense


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## friendofdorothy (Jan 31, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Then I suspect you're deluded. Apart from anything else it's impossible to have empty shops and crack houses every 10ft, because the average frontage for a shop is 12-14 feet, and more for a house.
> So, hyperbole.
> 
> As for the rest of your post, as I've said previously,*yes*, all of that shit happened, but not in the non-stop, intense way you imply, and not all at the same time. As for "no go areas", I'm a white bloke, and never found trouble on any of my nocturnal peregrinations around Brixton. A couple of propositions from sex workers on the corner of Josephine Ave and Water Lane, but scarcely "no go". Even when my own estate was notorious for sex workers fucking clients on our stairwells and banging up, it wasn't a "no go area", unless your sensibilities were so delicate that the sight of human misery roused nausea in you, rather than compassion.


You are in a nit picking mood.  There where some 'no go' areas. I don't think he did imply it was non stop everywhere. Don't think SarfLondoner is deluded or suffers from delicate sensibilities.

No one, especially children and vulnerable people, should have to put up with anyone using public spaces as brothels or for using drugs, it degrades us all - that isn't just being 'delicate'.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jan 31, 2015)

There are certainly no go areas now, Granville Arcade for one. We never needed security guards back in the day.


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## Rushy (Jan 31, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> You are in a nit picking mood.  There where some 'no go' areas. I don't think he did imply it was non stop everywhere. Don't think SarfLondoner is deluded or suffers from delicate sensibilities.
> 
> No one, especially children and vulnerable people, should have to put up with anyone using public spaces as brothels or for using drugs, it degrades us all - that isn't just being 'delicate'.


To be fair, I think this set to is more about SarfLondoner not toeing the line.


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## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Don't think SarfLondoner is deluded or suffers from delicate sensibilities.
> There where some 'no go' areas for cabs, deliveries, police. I don't think he did imply it was non stop intense


Thanks, I was describing a small part of Brixton but you know what it's like on here.Like you and editor have stated it was great place to be with lots of good things and people,i do miss a lot of those things but that is all.Part of the reason Brixton and other areas are the way they are now, is because of the way they were back then.


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## boohoo (Jan 31, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> I walked around the stockwell park with my niece (35yr old) last summer to look at her childhood haunts.  The design of that estate was horrible - designed for men in cars. Some bits of the estate are unrecognisable from back then - it looks so much better now. Looked like they had converted some garages into homes, improved paths, entrances, access, etc.
> 
> I hate the demolishion of council homes to make way for 'the junction' private expensive flats.


Lots has changed there. As a kid we would go to the doctors there or walk through to go to Brixton or occasionally use the community centre. The doctors and  community centre was rebuilt/moved years ago.
The garages were always dark and dingy and in the late 1980s there was a gang rape of two teens in the garages.

It has improved but I hate seeing all the new builds, such as those along Robsart street and old flats being removed to be replaced by private flats.


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## SarfLondoner (Jan 31, 2015)

Rushy said:


> Step. Away. From the keyboard.
> 
> I knew you'd crack


It was just a flying visit Maate, A guest appearance if you like. Ta ta.


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## ash (Jan 31, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> I walked around the stockwell park with my niece (35yr old) last summer to look at her childhood haunts.  The design of that estate was horrible - designed for men in cars. Some bits of the estate are unrecognisable from back then - it looks so much better now. Looked like they had converted some garages into homes, improved paths, entrances, access, etc.
> 
> I hate the demolishion of council homes to make way for 'the junction' private expensive flats.



I was mugged on the SPE in 1999 on the way to the day center in the middle of it.  I walk through it often now to take my daughter to school or to visit her friends who live there and it does feel a lot safer in my opinion,


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## el-ahrairah (Jan 31, 2015)

i've been thinking about this thread and the argument.  the person who sarcastically asked if they were working class enough to live here actually had it correct in a way.  but rather than an internet jury of lefties deciding who gets to live in brixton, the jury is capital, and thus the british class system.

what do you need to be allowed to live in brixton these days?

if you grew up here, your family, your friends, your geographical identity is here, does that allow you to live in brixton?

if you moved here, found a welcoming community that you contributed to and which helped to make brixton a welcoming, desirable destination, does that allow you to live here?

the supporters  of gentrification, or those who benefit from it, will tell you that it neither of those things gain you citizenship, that the only qualification is your ability to spend - as if that's democratic and fair, despite your parents' class being more important to your earning ability than any other factor.  and tough luck, _that's life_, if you complain you must be an inverse snob, a racist, self-righteous, or are laying down some sort of law about who gets to live in brixton - as if that isn't happening anyway.  and if you think that's _right_, well, like i said to elmpp. your morals are all twisty.


and that, i guess, is the last i have to say on that for now.


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## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

SarfLondoner said:


> You are in a dream world


And I'll leave it at that, thanks.


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I wasnt responding to you at all. I witnessed burnt out cars too.


And burnt out scooters! We used to get a lot them around here.


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## ash (Jan 31, 2015)

ash said:


> I was mugged on the SPE in 1999 on the way to the day center in the middle of it.  I walk through it often now to take my daughter to school or to visit friends who live there and it does feel a lot safer in my opinion,


I've just remembered that the police (attending and driving round with me looking for the 'perp') we're very surprised and said so when I described him as white. Apparently they never dealt with white muggers 
A lovely West Indian man called and returned my bag minus purse that he found on his doorstep!!


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## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

Photos from the March For Homes - more later. Well done to everyone who came out on such a horrible day to support such an important cause.


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## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

Upcoming: 
New exhibition: People, Places, Trains, Walls, Faces: 30 Years of Documenting Graffiti and Street Art


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## editor (Jan 31, 2015)

I've posted up a big photo feature of the today's March for Homes here: http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2015/01/...arch-for-homes-in-south-london-photo-feature/


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## Mr Retro (Jan 31, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> There are certainly no go areas now, Granville Arcade for one. We never needed security guards back in the day.


Why is Granville Arcade a no go area? You don't half talk a pile of shit without backing any of it up with things such as facts.


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## leanderman (Feb 1, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> i've been thinking about this thread and the argument.  the person who sarcastically asked if they were working class enough to live here actually had it correct in a way.  but rather than an internet jury of lefties deciding who gets to live in brixton, the jury is capital, and thus the british class system.
> 
> what do you need to be allowed to live in brixton these days?
> 
> ...



Still, plenty of people without capital live in this street. And all across Brixton.


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## Gramsci (Feb 1, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Your point about the normalization of injustice and people being denigrated in their working life is totally correct Gramsci. However this kind of complaint above is contrived and it makes real the injustice more normal in its own way, creating noise around the point by complaining about nothing.
> 
> The security guard should not have left you in there in the first place, getting the third degree on the way out is correct because you could have been anybody. That's just security doing their job, not a comment on you not being out of your place.
> 
> It's irrelevant how the receptionists and office looked - did they really both pull faces at the thought of having to go to loading bay?


"Contrived" ?

So I am  making "real" injustice more normal? I think not.

Well I got a lot of likes for that post.

You just didn’t get it. If you do not get it  don’t insult me by saying I am complaining about nothing.

I know what I am talking about.


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## Gramsci (Feb 1, 2015)

Good to see Cressingham Gardens at demo yesterday:


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## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 1, 2015)

Cressingham Gardens gets a mention in this article in The Guardian.
Thousands gather in London to protest against lack of affordable housing

http://gu.com/p/45ckp


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## Nanker Phelge (Feb 1, 2015)

el-ahrairah said:


> the supporters  of gentrification, or those who benefit from it, will tell you that it neither of those things gain you citizenship, that the only qualification is your ability to spend - as if that's democratic and fair, despite your parents' class being more important to your earning ability than any other factor.  and tough luck, _that's life_, if you complain you must be an inverse snob, a racist, self-righteous, or are laying down some sort of law about who gets to live in brixton - as if that isn't happening anyway.  and if you think that's _right_, well, like i said to elmpp. your morals are all twisty.
> 
> 
> and that, i guess, is the last i have to say on that for now.



I think real citizenship come with time and effort. Money won't buy you a place among people who care and matter.

I am seeing in Tulse Hill that the 'new people' with 'money' are struggling to be a part of things. They are the ones all gathering together and forming committees and building faux communities, but they are lost in connecting to any 'locals' and so go about an odd kind of social cleansing. They are not excluding the 'locals' and the long term residents of the area, they just build new things for themselves that 'those people' can not afford or do not know how to be a part of. The once marginalised middle classes of Tulse Hill, who ran from the Station to their homes every night, are now propping up the refurbed bars and eating from the fancy plates of wood, while the people who kept the area, while no one cared, get shoved towards the cheap seat, the next borough, the shit pub up the road that has yet to be taken over, turned over, re-cushioned for the cosy and needy nuclear families that are turning real long term, evolved, communities into fractured and disparate hives.

The gentrifiers don't really feel part of anything, they are just in transition, awaiting the next place or point in their lives, they don't connect fully with an area of make it a part of their future. They don't commit. 

That lack of commitment is the thing that angers me the most. While they take and take and throw a few pennies back, they leave the origins of an area in tatters, and rarely do those origins (people, traditions, places etcs) ever return or recover from having been bent and shaped to fit the needs of a group of people who were only ever motivated by being in the 'right place' while it was up an coming, without ever really being interested in any positive change and progress in that area unless it's connected to a value that benefits them directly (economically, socially, reputationally etc.)

It's the fake bollocks of pretending to be a part of an area that stinks.


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## elmpp (Feb 1, 2015)

And the previous settlers did so based on what criteria? Affordabily (often squatting) socially and word of mouth. Same thing


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## Nanker Phelge (Feb 1, 2015)

Not really.

I came Brixton because the first day I ever visited it felt like a place I could be a part of. I never tried to bend it to suit me. I felt suited to it.

I never tried to make it something for me, I came to be a part of what was already here.

The only thing I wanted to see improved was the state of the police cells at Brixton nick. They were a bit shit, but they did refurb them and it was possible to get a half decent kip eventually...


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## Mr Retro (Feb 1, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> "Contrived" ?
> 
> So I am  making "real" injustice more normal? I think not.
> 
> ...


Address the points in my reply. You are complaining about nothing in your post. By doing so you create noise around real issues and make them easier to ignore.


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## oryx (Feb 1, 2015)

Nanker, what you have said in your last but one post describes very well what is happening in my area. The bit about faux communities especially rings true.


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## Dexter Deadwood (Feb 1, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I think real citizenship come with time and effort. Money won't buy you a place among people who care and matter.
> 
> I am seeing in Tulse Hill that the 'new people' with 'money' are struggling to be a part of things. They are the ones all gathering together and forming committees and building faux communities, but they are lost in connecting to any 'locals' and so go about an odd kind of social cleansing. They are not excluding the 'locals' and the long term residents of the area, they just build new things for themselves that 'those people' can not afford or do not know how to be a part of. The once marginalised middle classes of Tulse Hill, who ran from the Station to their homes every night, are now propping up the refurbed bars and eating from the fancy plates of wood, while the people who kept the area, while no one cared, get shoved towards the cheap seat, the next borough, the shit pub up the road that has yet to be taken over, turned over, re-cushioned for the cosy and needy nuclear families that are turning real long term, evolved, communities into fractured and disparate hives.
> 
> ...



That's a fantastic post. Essentially the gentrifiers are vampires but without any of the sexy stuff.


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## elmpp (Feb 1, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> That's a fantastic post. Essentially the gentrifiers are vampires but without any of the sexy stuff.


U got sexy sewn up


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## Gramsci (Feb 1, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Address the points in my reply. You are complaining about nothing in your post. By doing so you create noise around real issues and make them easier to ignore.



You have not read my post properly.

You do not understand it so there is no point carrying this on.


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## Mr Retro (Feb 1, 2015)

Gramsci said:


> You have not read my post properly.
> 
> You do not understand it so there is no point carrying this on.


Yes I have, yes I do. But let's leave it if you prefer.


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## el-ahrairah (Feb 1, 2015)

leanderman said:


> Still, plenty of people without capital live in this street. And all across Brixton.



at the moment, yes - though their numbers are receding.  does this mean that you disagree with my assessment?


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## editor (Feb 1, 2015)

oryx said:


> Nanker, what you have said in your last but one post describes very well what is happening in my area. The bit about faux communities especially rings true.


The trend for developers to rename areas as "Villages" is very much a case in point.


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## editor (Feb 1, 2015)

Thread continues into February here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/brixton-news-rumour-and-general-chat-february-2015.331813/


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