# Web history on Nokia N8, is there one? (urgent help save my job)



## TopCat (Mar 7, 2011)

I have been accused at work of making 2  huge downloads on my work Nokia N8 and have been suspended as a result. I only have minimal details on the bill as to the data usage. I know from the bill what date and time the data transfers took place. Is there a way to retrieve the web history from the Nokia N8 so I can see why there were two peculiar and large data transfers on the phone? 

I can only find a recently visited pages function that does not list what pages were visited and when?

Could it have been push email? Feeds? Any ideas? I really only used to it to look at news and not at the times it stated, like 2 in the morning. I have broadband at home for that in the unlikely event that I was not asleep?


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## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

What kind of download size are you talking about?


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## TopCat (Mar 7, 2011)

50 mg at 1 in the morning and 30 odd meg at 7am. I can't figure it out at all.


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## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

TopCat said:


> 50 mg at 1 in the morning and 30 odd meg at 7am. I can't figure it out at all.


Sounds like a short movie's worth or streaming music - or a load of browsing.

You might want to install this: http://www.symbiantweet.com/datamonitor-monitors-gprs-wifi-data-usage


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## TopCat (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm going to get dismissed tomorrow I think unless I can show what the usage was and explain it.


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## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I'm going to get dismissed tomorrow I think unless I can show what the usage was and explain it.


That seems extremely harsh seeing as that amount of data isn't an awful lot for a smartphone. Were you physically awake at the time?


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## Badgers (Mar 7, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I'm going to get dismissed tomorrow I think unless I can show what the usage was and explain it.


 
 

Not really technical enough to give you any advice but this is a shit run of luck you are having.


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## TopCat (Mar 7, 2011)

editor said:


> That seems extremely harsh seeing as that amount of data isn't an awful lot for a smartphone. Were you physically awake at the time?


 
My phone is set up to link with my home broad band if the browser is opened at home. I would have asleep on the first occasion at 1 in the morning and  getting ready for work on the second. The phone plan though has no data included <facepalm my fault this> and 02 have charged a fortune. My actions at work are being looked at through a very harsh prism at the moment.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 7, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I'm going to get dismissed tomorrow I think unless I can show what the usage was and explain it.


 
Surely not? That really isn't a lot of data for a Smartphone...


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## Fruitloop (Mar 7, 2011)

I think it depends on what browser you have.

This seems to me to be totally unreasonable on the part of your work. Is there some kind of previous history or are they just being complete c*nts?


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## Badgers (Mar 7, 2011)

Fruitloop said:


> This seems to me to be totally unreasonable on the part of your work. Is there some kind of previous history or are they just being complete c*nts?


 
Does seem very unreasonable. 
No offer to simply repay the cost of the download?

Sounds like they are trying to find reasons to get you out TC


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## TopCat (Mar 7, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Surely not? That really isn't a lot of data for a Smartphone...


 
My boss has asserted that there is no need at all for net use on my mobile therefore it is misuse of company property and Gross Misconduct. I have a clean sheet disciplinary wise up to this point. 

Any pointers on putting forward that this is not a lot of data anyway for a smartphone? It would also so help If I could retrieve a definitive history to show what pages were visited and when?


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## sim667 (Mar 7, 2011)

1. How long ago was it?
2. Is there anyone else who could have done it?


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## editor (Mar 7, 2011)

You need to contact your network provider NOW and ask them for information.


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## TopCat (Mar 7, 2011)

editor said:


> You need to contact your network provider NOW and ask them for information.


 
I am on hold now with begging bowl ready.


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## TopCat (Mar 7, 2011)

Losing my job now would almost certainly mean losing my home and having my kids over to stay, plus the cat. Oh what a nightmare.


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## RaverDrew (Mar 7, 2011)

Sorry TC that's well harsh 

Here's hoping it can be traced back to an automatic software/firmware update or some such.


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## Sunray (Mar 7, 2011)

I would query the bill that because the N8 cannot be used as a hotspot by default, so no hacking possible.  Phones generally don't keep a log like PC's do for memory reasons.  Looked closely at the N8 doc's and can't see anything its doing secretly.  It might but the info isn't public.

Its one of two things, O2 making a mistake. Very likely, I think there is an industry accepted standard of about 5% of bills are in error. Or possibly you leaving the phone where someone else can access it and didn't realise it didn't have a data plan and watched some youtube vids.

Its very harsh, if that is what is at stake, they should have more information than a bill from O2.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 7, 2011)

TopCat said:


> My boss has asserted that there is no need at all for net use on my mobile therefore it is misuse of company property and Gross Misconduct. I have a clean sheet disciplinary wise up to this point


 
Then why have they given you an N8?

I'd have a swift chat with your union rep, assuming you're in one...


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## TopCat (Mar 7, 2011)

Azzurri communications have come back and said that the times and dates on the bill can be out by up to 72 hours. This is pertinent to say the least. Also the issue of another person using it could be the reason. The handset sits on my desk for most of the day and is unguraded.


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## Winot (Mar 7, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I'd have a swift chat with your union rep, assuming you're in one...


 
And/or an employment solicitor.


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## TopCat (Mar 7, 2011)

Winot said:


> And/or an employment solicitor.


 
I hope it does not come to this but I fear that a very harsh prism is being used to view my performance in it's entirety.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 7, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I hope it does not come to this but I fear that a very harsh prism is being used to view my performance in it's entirety.


 
Are you in a union?


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## Blagsta (Mar 7, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Azzurri communications have come back and said that the times and dates on the bill can be out by up to 72 hours. This is pertinent to say the least. Also the issue of another person using it could be the reason. The handset sits on my desk for most of the day and is unguraded.


 
There's your defence.  Its up to them to prove it was you.


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## TopCat (Mar 7, 2011)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Are you in a union?


 
No.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Mar 7, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> There's your defence.  Its up to them to prove it was you.


 
I'd also say it's on them to say exactly what it was that was downloaded.


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## DrRingDing (Mar 7, 2011)

Have you streamed any music or video?

Maybe it's time to join a union?


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## grit (Mar 7, 2011)

What about a nokia system update? See if its possible to check the phones version number against the latest

Could also mount the phone (connect via usb to computer and browse the storage) and check the timestamp on files created/modified.

TopCat ring me if you are unsure above.


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## souljacker (Mar 7, 2011)

Symbian phones will have a data log. It's tucked away somewhere, possibly under one of the tabs on the normal phone log. This probably won't tell you what it was that was downloaded but it may prove it wasn't you and that there was an error by o2. 

Just checked someone elses 5800 and its the second tab under the call log.


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## TopCat (Mar 7, 2011)

I appreciate the support peeps.


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## grit (Mar 7, 2011)

According to the manual there is a data log in Application->Tools->logs that would be worth having a look at.


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## aspirationjones (Mar 7, 2011)

Jesus this sounds harsh

good luck and I hope you find out what it was and that it was someone else


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

The data log shows 135mb downloaded since I had the phone nothing else in terms of details. We have no policy at work regarding personal use of mobile phones and indeed all staff including the CEO make personal calls on company mobiles.


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## DotCommunist (Mar 8, 2011)

good luck this morning TC. I hope more useful posters than myself have provided you with enough ammo to fight your corner effectively.


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## Kanda (Mar 8, 2011)

If there is no policy in place, how can they do you for it?? 

I'd tell them to set one up if they want to try pull stunts like this, surely they don't have a leg to stand on?

Good luck fella.


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## ice-is-forming (Mar 8, 2011)

yeah. good luck TopCat


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## Blagsta (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah, if they don't have a policy, they can't really discipline you for it.


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

Well my boss goes to the board to put his case there this afternoon. I have joined Unite. I think a change of tack will be attempted in that I signed off the invoice after querying it with O2 without bringing it to his attention.


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## Kanda (Mar 8, 2011)

They've not already clearly outlined what they are disciplining you for??


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

He has backed off a little and wrote to me that this remains an investigation at present.


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

grit said:


> What about a nokia system update? See if its possible to check the phones version number against the latest
> 
> Could also mount the phone (connect via usb to computer and browse the storage) and check the timestamp on files created/modified.
> 
> TopCat ring me if you are unsure above.


 
I am wondering about this...


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

Could a virus be responsible?


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

Or an uploaded pic from the phone? The N8 has a 12mp camera, I just can't find out what the data traffic is at this stage...


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## grit (Mar 8, 2011)

Do you have access to the phone at the moment?


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

Yeah its with me.


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## editor (Mar 8, 2011)

There was a Nokia N8 software version 013.016 released on the 17th Feb - http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=193584033999655


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## grit (Mar 8, 2011)

Plug it in via usb to the computer and browse the drive that appears in my computer, see if you can see any files that are the appropriate size and have a timestamp in the 72 hours they are talking about. Its not defo going to give any useful information but its worth a shot


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

It has a phone memory, a mass memory and an additional sd ram card. Do I Look in them all?


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## grit (Mar 8, 2011)

TopCat said:


> It has a phone memory, a mass memory and an additional sd ram card. Do I Look in them all?


 
Look everywhere I dont know nokia well enough to definitely say where such things would be stored, sorry.


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## grit (Mar 8, 2011)

Also check if you are on the latest version http://europe.nokia.com/support/download-software/device-software-update/can-i-update


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok its connected via USB, I will try and find anything that was created or modified in the 72 hour period after the details on the bill. Beers, hugs and eternal thanks for all you kind people.


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## zenie (Mar 8, 2011)

TopCat said:


> It has a phone memory, a mass memory and an additional sd ram card. Do I Look in them all?


 
check both - you'll be able to see what folders were modified and when, then the individual files will be inside 

Fingers crossed for you


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

grit said:


> Also check if you are on the latest version http://europe.nokia.com/support/download-software/device-software-update/can-i-update


 
it's not the latest version I don't think.


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## aspirationjones (Mar 8, 2011)

Good luck for this afternoon

I know there are some N8's that suffer from a sudden death thing where they just won't turn on again after being powered down - dunno if this (your) kind of issue is a precursor to the sudden death thing - might be worth a google if you can't find out which files were downloaded/make sense of that data.

I don't think that they can enforce a non-existent policy either btw


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## grit (Mar 8, 2011)

TopCat said:


> it's not the latest version I don't think.


 
Ok we can eliminate a OS software update then.


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## King Biscuit Time (Mar 8, 2011)

If your company doesn't want/need people using mobile data - It's bloody daft of them to give people smartphones, then subscribe to a contract with punitive data charges without taking the simple precaution of disabling data roaming with the network provider.


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

I am trying to explore the phone to see what was downloaded and when, however as an amateur I don't really know how to do this?


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## mauvais (Mar 8, 2011)

I've used 130MB of data via email and occasional browsing over less than two weeks, and it hasn't cost me anything. This is the business' fault (should have disabled data and/or set up an appropriate data tariff, not shared phones and given a clear policy) but to be honest this belongs in the Employment forum rather than looking for technical get-outs.


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## Crispy (Mar 8, 2011)

TopCat said:


> I am trying to explore the phone to see what was downloaded and when, however as an amateur I don't really know how to do this?


 
Open the root of the drive you want to search
Press F3 to open up search





put *.* in the top box, not *.doc
Use the "When was it modified" section to narrow the range down. Click search.





Repeat this for each of the 'drives' that the phone has.


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## Citizen66 (Mar 8, 2011)

A company policy can't be contravened if it is yet to be written.

If they fire you, take them to the fucking cleaners.


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

Lets keep this polite please. This is public after all.


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## grit (Mar 8, 2011)

mauvais said:


> but to be honest this belongs in the Employment forum rather than looking for technical get-outs.


 
To be honest it doesnt, its debatable that a sister thread should be in employment regarding TC's joining a union and any further official action.

Edit: this is way too important a thread to de-rail lets just leave it.


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

Crispy said:


> Open the root of the drive you want to search
> Press F3 to open up search
> 
> 
> ...


 
I am doing this. It's listing the huge amount of music etc I have on the phone but all of this was synced off of my pc.


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## Crispy (Mar 8, 2011)

Nothing but music? Be thorouh...


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## Citizen66 (Mar 8, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Lets keep this polite please. This is public after all.



I am being polite. They haven't organised for data to be disabled when they negotiated the phone plan. Now they want to punish you for any charges incurred. Hand in a grievance and then see your doctor about the stress the situation has caused you.


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

That was the N8 Mass memory. Nothing of note. Need to do the other drives..


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

Citizen66 said:


> I am being polite. They haven't organised for data to be disabled when they negotiated the phone plan. Now they want to punish you for any charges incurred. Hand in a grievance and then see your doctor about the stress the situation has caused you.


My boss could be reading this, please be polite.


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

Ok I have searched the phone as best as I am able to. I put in *.* as advised. I specified the relevant drive. I am looking at the search results. On the sd ram card hardly anything comes up. Just to be clear, I have specified in the search that the dates are from 01/01/2011 to 31/01/2011. then I look for all or any files or folders that were modified within 72 hours of the date and time on the bill?


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## Crispy (Mar 8, 2011)

You got it 
Remember to sort the results by date/time


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## TopCat (Mar 8, 2011)

How do I save the results? If I need to provide details of what was modified in jan 2011 in a disciplinary hearing?


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## Citizen66 (Mar 8, 2011)

Print screen and turn into a graphic. Or print the page with a printer.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 8, 2011)

Press PrtScrn, then paste into to Paint and save it.


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## Crispy (Mar 8, 2011)

TopCat said:


> How do I save the results? If I need to provide details of what was modified in jan 2011 in a disciplinary hearing?


 
Prt Scn (print screen) and paste into paint or whatever.
A computer, the actual phone and show them the file would be iron-clad.


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## Blagsta (Mar 8, 2011)

If someone was watching streamed video or listening to streamed audio, would it show up as a file?


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## Crispy (Mar 8, 2011)

Blagsta said:


> If someone was watching streamed video or listening to streamed audio, would it show up as a file?


 
No


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## aspirationjones (Mar 8, 2011)

would the visit to the site be logged? (assume so)


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## mauvais (Mar 8, 2011)

You might also want to inspect or capture evidence from:


the device's browser history
a list of installed applications
any recent searches or search suggestions
other indicators of other people's use, not necessarily wrt data - e.g. the photo gallery, sent messages, calls etc
and see if anything unfamiliar jumps out of either. I don't have an N8 so don't know if the above are there/easy to get.

It's not really evidential quality though and thus only for your own info - I mean you could have removed any offending info.


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 8, 2011)

This sounds very harsh to the point of being abnormal. Clearly the company have some explaining to do regarding their policy of usage of company owned devices. I reckon an employment lawyer would have a field day with this and the company should have the brains to realise this and back down.


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## TopCat (Mar 9, 2011)

The goal posts are getting moved around now. Any I not dotted and any T not crossed is being dug out.


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## Badgers (Mar 9, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This sounds very harsh to the point of being abnormal. Clearly the company have some explaining to do regarding their policy of usage of company owned devices. I reckon an employment lawyer would have a field day with this and the company should have the brains to realise this and back down.



Does not really help the stress short term or indeed the paying of bills in the short/medium term. 



TopCat said:


> The goal posts are getting moved around now. Any I not dotted and any T not crossed is being dug out.


 
Sounds like a witch hunt mate. 
Most employees can be got rid of if management dig hard enough. 
It is a can of worms, just do whatever you can to protect yourself for now.


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## TopCat (Mar 9, 2011)

Just keep calm, maintain my dignity, hold head up high and be prepared to take any job whatsoever if it all goes to the worst case scenario. Am told I "remain suspended whilst investigations continue, will be sent an email today". This by text yesterday.


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## zenie (Mar 9, 2011)

the cynic in me says they made a load of people redundant recently and they're just looking for a way to get you out.   

Text message


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## Kid_Eternity (Mar 9, 2011)

Badgers said:


> Does not really help the stress short term or indeed the paying of bills in the short/medium term.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Your second point is what sparked mine. Doesn't look like there's anything that can be done in the short term.


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## aspirationjones (Mar 9, 2011)

zenie said:


> the cynic in me says they made a load of people redundant recently..........Text message



the cynic in you may be right
as for the text - ffs - did they send it to the N8 in question?


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## TopCat (Mar 9, 2011)

Got email saying investigations not yet complete, they will contact me NEXT week.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Mar 9, 2011)

Are they paying you whilst your off work?


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## zenie (Mar 9, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Got email saying investigations not yet complete, they will contact me NEXT week.


 
Hope you're on full pay FFS 

Have you contacted ACAS?


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## TopCat (Mar 9, 2011)

That's the policy when suspended so yes? I say that because I was increasingly anxious and worrying about being summarily dismissed without notice or pay.


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## Dan U (Mar 9, 2011)

This sounds really shit, sympathies TC


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## mauvais (Mar 9, 2011)

How many hours of non-work do you need to clock up before it's cost them more than £390?


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## TopCat (Mar 9, 2011)

mauvais said:


> How many hours of non-work do you need to clock up before it's cost them more than £390?


 
It was £170 and Non work cost more than this in less than two days.


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## oicur0t (Mar 13, 2011)

Ok joining this a bit late but I've skim read some stuff.

Some random points
* The Nokia N8 is a modern smartphone that should be accompanied by a suitable data plan, if it is not this is an oversight buy the buyer/contract manager. I am not aware of it being available (as standard) on a contract without some sort of data plan.
* There are so many features that use data that it is totally unfair to expect a non technical (presumption on my part, but you are just an end user, IT policy should dictate to every skill level) user to police a zero data policy. If your employers want a zero data policy then they should only setup phones to use no 3g/gsm data or employ some 'Mobile Device Management'. It's not your job to enforce a zero data policy. They may ask you not to use data, but it cannot be data = > zero or the sack.
* There is no evidence/suggestion that the data is connected to any non work related usage. A phone update, is a possible scenario, but 50meg is quite big. Video and media is normally scaled for streaming over 3g so 50 is very big for this too. There would be no applications for a Symbian^3 smartphone that would be anywhere near that big. It's up to them to show that the data is an "abuse" on your part.
* Average data usage for my Symbian phones without trying to attempt any data is between 100kb to 1 meg. I've had a Vodafone sim in an e71 sitting waiting for most of december and jan (when it's had battery) - I didn't want to use data as I would get billed roaming charges here in the US. Total for a month - 30 meg.
* The data may not result in any file being stored on the phone, it could be streaming data.
* The data usage may have come via a website that was less than reliable, some exploit or other.
* The data usage may be the result of someone else using the phone. Does the company enforce a passcode lock on all their phones?
* Symbian is a true multi tasking OS. Data usage may have initiated in a wifi zone which you then left, unaware that a background process continued (although you would have had to confirm a connection with default settings; the phone can be setup to pick a connection without a prompt)
* Offer up the phone, say you don't know where the data usage came from, you are unaware of what happened and be helpful.
* There's an itemised bill, you know this, you know you aren't supposed to use data. Why would you chug through that much data and not expect them to pick it up. This is clearly a mistake and can only be seen as such. Absolute worse case scenario is that they ask you to pay it back.
* Modern smartphone plans can come with amounts that start at 500meg per month, up to sizes like 5gb per month, or unlimited. You are not hitting those amounts, which means your not pushing the envelope on data usage.

Round up:
It's up to them to prove you did something sackable,
Managing the data usage on the phone is down to those in charge of the companies mobile assets,
Unless you specifically circumvented controls or settings 'on purpose' for personal gain then you're ok,
Don't go rooting around the device for evidence, you don't need to. Ask the company to help you find the information as you don't want it to happen again. Ask about what they can do to enforce the company data policy in the future (as they should)


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## Pickman's model (Mar 13, 2011)

very sorry to hear about this, tc. but it's good to see lots of good advice on the thread. good luck!


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## aspirationjones (Mar 14, 2011)

I just logged in to see if anything had happened with this TopCat

No news yet I assume - good luck and all that


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## TopCat (Mar 14, 2011)

Still suspended. Awaiting email update. Keeping chin up.


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## magneze (Mar 14, 2011)

Kid_Eternity said:


> This sounds very harsh to the point of being abnormal. Clearly the company have some explaining to do regarding their policy of usage of company owned devices. I reckon an employment lawyer would have a field day with this and the company should have the brains to realise this and back down.


This ^. Good luck TopCat.


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## TopCat (Mar 14, 2011)

http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...-at-a-disciplinary...?p=11594954#post11594954

Update on situation. Very upsetting.


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## Fruitloop (Mar 14, 2011)

They sound like the most massive shower of absolute arseholes imaginable. I hope you nail them for everything they've got.

Once it's over, can we name and shame? <evil face>


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## TopCat (Mar 14, 2011)

The company does a lot of good. I would never want to hinder it at all. All very sad.


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## Fruitloop (Mar 14, 2011)

I dunno, I have worked for companies/charities that do excellent work but are horrible to their employees. They need to be forced to change because however long they get away with it for, ultimately it's destructive to them and their aims. Although I can see that there's not the same pleasure in giving them an absolute PR twatting as if you work for some bunch of profit-driven bastards.


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## TopCat (Mar 16, 2011)

Techie help always appreciated. Thanks all for the support and assistance. <very little smiley >


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## editor (Mar 16, 2011)

TopCat said:


> http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/th...-at-a-disciplinary...?p=11594954#post11594954
> 
> Update on situation. Very upsetting.


Jeez. This is ridiculous. Have you contacted Nokia directly?

Oh, and good luck with this.


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## TopCat (Mar 17, 2011)

Spoke at length to my son about the phone last night (he is 11). He said that he had on at least two occasions (when the broadband router was playing up) used the modem facility on the phone to hook up the home pc to the internet and watched streaming vid of the Simpsons. So finally an explanation for the data usage. I got very good advice from the RMT rep yesterday. Will get a few things done today in preperation for the hearing.


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## stuff_it (Mar 17, 2011)

TopCat said:


> Spoke at length to my son about the phone last night (he is 11). He said that he had on at least two occasions (when the broadband router was playing up) used the modem facility on the phone to hook up the home pc to the internet and watched streaming vid of the Simpsons. So finally an explanation for the data usage. I got very good advice from the RMT rep yesterday. Will get a few things done today in preperation for the hearing.


 




Shit

At least it is an honest mistake in a way - have you spoken to your rep yet? May be better to pretend you didn't find that out, but I'd have thought you would have to at the very least pay it back...(Though I'd have thought paying it back would be a more common sense option than giving you the sack under the circs)


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## Termite Man (Mar 19, 2011)

Has the company set out guidelines for what the phone can/cannot be used for? I'd say unless they have specified the terms of use of the phone they can't complain about how you use it. Hopefully even if they have they will let you off in light of it being your son doing it unknowingly. Good luck


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## TopCat (Mar 26, 2011)

All sorted. thanks peeps!


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