# Which Union should I join?



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2013)

It's something I've meant to do for years, but now I've got an ongoing job rather than a short term contract I should get on it. 

I'm working as a Support Worker in Children's Home, I don't know if there is a union that specific, but I assume it's better to find one that know something about this type of work and the myriad of rules and regulations? It's only a small place and I've asked around and don't think anyone else is a member of a union. 

Does anyone have any suggestions?


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## Pickman's model (Apr 15, 2013)

unison

next


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## Corax (Apr 15, 2013)

Freemasons.


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## Blagsta (Apr 15, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> It's something I've meant to do for years, but now I've got an ongoing job rather than a short term contract I should get on it.
> 
> I'm working as a Support Worker in Children's Home, I don't know if there is a union that specific, but I assume it's better to find one that know something about this type of work and the myriad of rules and regulations? It's only a small place and I've asked around and don't think anyone else is a member of a union.
> 
> Does anyone have any suggestions?


 
Does your employer have a collective bargaining agreement with a union?


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## purenarcotic (Apr 15, 2013)

Unison or Unite.  I think Unite have incorporated the union of youth and community workers.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> unison
> 
> next


 
I don't work in the public sector.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2013)

Blagsta said:


> Does your employer have a collective bargaining agreement with a union?


 
I very much doubt it. It's a tiny affair which only has three young people at the most staying.

I'm not joining because of that, more if something happens at work as I don't trust management to back me up all the way.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 15, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> I don't work in the public sector.


unite

next


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## DotCommunist (Apr 15, 2013)

wobblies


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## Blagsta (Apr 15, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> I very much doubt it. It's a tiny affair which only has three young people at the most staying.
> 
> I'm not joining because of that, more if something happens at work as I don't trust management to back me up all the way.


 
If there's a collective bargaining agreement in place, join that union. If not, join the IWW or  Unite.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> unite
> 
> next


 
For someone who's obviously quite intelligent you can be remarkably unhelpful at time.


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 15, 2013)

Blagsta said:


> Does your employer have a collective bargaining agreement with a union?


 
^ that

If there is a union that is formally recognised by your employer / at your workplace, then joining that union is usually the best bet - although you are under no obligation to do so, and are free to join any union that will have you.

Is there any evidence of union organisation in your workplace?  (e.g. notice board or something?)  or is it the sort of place where any union membership tends to be kept quiet about? 

the TUC's union-finder may help you see if any union is formally recognised by your employer.

I'd be inclined to narrow it down to Unison, Unite or GMB.  I've been a member of Unison only within fairly big employer based branches - I've no idea how good they are at representing individuals in 'non union' workplaces.  GMB seem to be able to cope with individuals (from a friend's experience - she's a mobile care worker at a firm that's largely non union) - can't speak for Unite.  Also, how 'good' a union is locally depends on a combination of whether the members support the union, and on the local reps / stewards - it's something of a chicken & egg situation - without strong support a union is relatively weak, and people tend not to make an effort to support a weak union branch...

I am inclined to think it's worth your joining a union even if there's no local recognition - the potential for shit / fan interface when working with children is high...


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2013)

Blagsta said:


> If there's a collective bargaining agreement in place, join that union. If not, join the IWW or Unite.


 
So I accept I'm being thick here, but is public service not the same as public sector then?


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## Pickman's model (Apr 15, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> For someone who's obviously quite intelligent you can be remarkably unhelpful at time.


'which union should i join' does not seem to demand more than a one word answer. and there is no known correlation between helpfulness and intelligence.

next.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> 'which union should i join' does not seem to demand more than a one word answer. and there is no known correlation between helpfulness and intelligence.
> 
> next.


 
TBF you have shown that many times

next


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## Pickman's model (Apr 15, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> TBF you have shown that many times


only to you my sweetling


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2013)

Puddy_Tat said:


> ^ that
> 
> If there is a union that is formally recognised by your employer / at your workplace, then joining that union is usually the best bet - although you are under no obligation to do so, and are free to join any union that will have you.
> 
> ...


 
Yeah the shit hit fan probability is quite high in this job. I've worked with young people for about 9 years now, but in outdoor ed, where I've always felt a bit more supported, if only because if there was shit the smell of it would taint my employers. It's definitely not a unionised workplace. I think there are only six staff with a few more who do the odd shift.

Again from a position of ignorance...I was kind of hoping there might be a smaller union that dealt more with my industry, so if there is problem they would be in a better place to help. Could the bigger ones still be able to do this, if they don't know all the ins and outs. It's slightly frustrating that I don't know anyone else who works in different places, as I've come at this as an outsider, so can't find out there advice.


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## purenarcotic (Apr 15, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> Yeah the shit hit fan probability is quite high in this job. I've worked with young people for about 9 years now, but in outdoor ed, where I've always felt a bit more supported, if only because if there was the smell of it would taint my employers. It's definitely not a unionised workplace. I think there are only six staff with a few more who do the odd shift.
> 
> Again from a position of ignorance...I was kind of hoping there might be a smaller union that dealt more with my industry, so if there is problem they would be in a better place to help. Could the bigger ones still be able to do this, if they don't know all the ins and outs. It's slightly frustrating that I don't know anyone else who works in different places, as I've come at this as an outsider, so can't find out there advice.


 
There was, the youth and community workers union, but they were incorporated into Unite.

Public service is not necessarily the same as public sector; who pays your wages? Is it a private company or the council / NHS? I would have thought you're private sector as most councils have outsourced their kids homes to private companies.

I am with Unison because they represent the most social workers (and tbh they had the cheapest deal for training students ) and also because most social work is still carried out by those within the public sector. If Unison in my work place wasn't recognised, or I stopped doing stat social work I'd consider Unite because of their association with youth and community work, so I'd hope they had an iota of a clue wtf our jobs entail and what we try to do.  It would also depend on which union my work place recognised.


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## Blagsta (Apr 15, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> So I accept I'm being thick here, but is public service not the same as public sector then?


 
Public sector means employed by a statutory organisation like the NHS or a council.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2013)

Blagsta said:


> Public sector means employed by a statutory organisation like the NHS or a council.


 
That's what I thought...what's the difference between that and a public service?


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2013)

purenarcotic said:


> There was, the youth and community workers union, but they were incorporated into Unite.
> 
> Public service is not necessarily the same as public sector; who pays your wages? Is it a private company or the council / NHS? I would have thought you're private sector as most councils have outsourced their kids homes to private companies.
> 
> I am with Unison because they represent the most social workers (and tbh they had the cheapest deal for training students ) and also because most social work is still carried out by those within the public sector. If Unison in my work place wasn't recognised, or I stopped doing stat social work I'd consider Unite because of their association with youth and community work, so I'd hope they had an iota of a clue wtf our jobs entail and what we try to do. It would also depend on which union my work place recognised.


 
It's a private company, which is tiny. I had the misfortune to spend a night on shift with one of the directors due to staffing shortages. I'll have a look at unite then ta.


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## Blagsta (Apr 15, 2013)

Global Stoner said:


> That's what I thought...what's the difference between that and a public service?


 
A public service is a service provided to the public.  Other than that rather glib answer, I don't think it has a specific meaning.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2013)

Blagsta said:


> A public service is a service provided to the public. Other than that rather glib answer, I don't think it has a specific meaning.


 
Ok...would that extend as far as retail then or is that not considered a service?

FWIW I don't provide a service to the public, unless you count helping people after they been referred through to us by many people and have the public footing the bill.


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## Dillinger4 (Apr 15, 2013)

IWW


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 15, 2013)

Personally, I'd say

"public sector" = service directly provided by a public sector (i.e. central or local government) provider, e.g. police, fire brigade, civil service, local government office or manual staff

"public service" = service that is provided by or on behalf of the public sector, e.g. contracted out service that may or may not have been done at one time by the public sector.  Not all such services are provided directly for "the general public" - e.g. a lot of people are not direct "customers" of the prison service, or of particular specialised bits of the health service.

I would not class retail, pubs, cinemas, theatres etc as a "public service" - while the general public are their customers, they are profit seeking businesses.

Public transport is a grey area, especially since privatisation / deregulation.  the term "public service vehicle" was adopted for buses and coaches in the 1930s, when (apart from the municipal operations) most buses were owned by the private sector.   Most public transport is now run by private sector operators, although some bus routes (the whole lot in London) and most train operating franchises are procured and paid for by national or local government...


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## geminisnake (Apr 15, 2013)

Is there a union that won't just take your subs and screw you over when you need them? Have any of them stopped backing Labour yet? Join any that have stopped donating to NLabour!! 
Sorry, just really needed to say that!


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 15, 2013)

geminisnake said:


> Is there a union that won't just take your subs and screw you over when you need them? Have any of them stopped backing Labour yet? Join any that have stopped donating to NLabour!!
> Sorry, just really needed to say that!


 
This is really selfish, but I feel that looking for a union is more like buying insurance then making a political statement,


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## geminisnake (Apr 15, 2013)

Fairy nuff. I just have as little faith in unions as I do in employers and politicians. All cnuts in shiny suits


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## JTG (Apr 15, 2013)

Another vote for the Wobs here.

Join Unite or summat as well if that seems sensible


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## Kidda (Apr 15, 2013)

Join The Community Youth Workers Union which is now part of Unite.


http://www.cywu.org.uk/


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## Lo Siento. (Apr 15, 2013)

If there's a recognised union join that, otherwise it doesn't really matter. Unite is mildly less shit nationally, but there's no accounting for local officials...


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## Sprocket. (Apr 16, 2013)

Unite subs are just over £12 a month for a full time worker.
Unison subs are incremental depending on your salary. 
GMB are an option but I cannot recall the cost of subs off the top of my head at the moment.
It's a shame the RMT isn't a general union, at least they are not funding the Westminster gravy train.
Sadly you are better in than out of a Trade Union. I have been in Unite, formerly Amicus, formerly AEEU all my working life and lately have had serious thoughts about packing em in, because the last time I was in deep shit I got a text off the local official, asking if he really would be any help!
Sometimes you just need some support and after all the years campaigning and protesting for them I suddenly felt like I had been stitched up!


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## chilango (Jan 19, 2014)

*bumping this*

TUC Union finder has been no real help.

Any tips for an education worker in the charity/non-proft sector?

It will involve "teaching" so NUT etc.? or Unite cos its not in schools or anything?


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## twentythreedom (Apr 6, 2018)

I've got a council job for the summer (and possibly longer) in the maritime industry.

I know SFA about unions. Shoulld I join a union, if so which one?

Thanks


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## danny la rouge (Apr 6, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> I've got a council job for the summer (and possibly longer) in the maritime industry.
> 
> I know SFA about unions. Shoulld I join a union, if so which one?
> 
> Thanks


Enter your details here:

Union Finder | workSMART


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## twentythreedom (Apr 6, 2018)

danny la rouge said:


> Enter your details here:
> 
> Union Finder | workSMART


Didn't recognise my profession  but entered details so awaiting email. Cheers DLR 

Any other ideas, anyone?


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## moochedit (Apr 6, 2018)

Sprocket. said:


> GMB are an option but I cannot recall the cost of subs off the top of my head at the moment.



£13.22 a month (on my wage slip)


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 6, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> I've got a council job for the summer (and possibly longer) in the maritime industry.
> 
> I know SFA about unions. Shoulld I join a union, if so which one?
> 
> Thanks



a council job could be unison, gmb or possibly unite.  a maritime job could be rmt or possibly something smaller.

or if its technical sort of level possibly prospect.

may be worth waiting until you start and see if there is representation there


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## Sue (Apr 6, 2018)

Puddy_Tat said:


> may be worth waiting until you start and see if there is representation there



This. Generally a good idea to be in the same union as people doing the same/similar job in a workplace unless there's a good reason not to be.

(And in some places, people can turn out to be in unexpected unions for various reasons -- like the Unite rep is rubbish but the GMB rep who's been there for 20 years is great so most people are in the GMB or whatever else.)


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## twentythreedom (Apr 6, 2018)

Puddy_Tat said:


> a council job could be unison, gmb or possibly unite.  a maritime job could be rmt or possibly something smaller.
> 
> or if its technical sort of level possibly prospect.
> 
> may be worth waiting until you start and see if there is representation there


Got an induction day next week so I'll ask then


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## StoneRoad (Apr 6, 2018)

twentythreedom - I would say that RMT would cover maritime (hint: RMT = National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers)
(I have a relative in the RMT, but he is railway, so no contest, although he could go into the TSSA if he wanted)


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## twentythreedom (Apr 6, 2018)

StoneRoad said:


> twentythreedom - I would say that RMT would cover maritime (hint: RMT = National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers)
> (I have a relative in the RMT, but he is railway, so no contest, although he could go into the TSSA if he wanted)


Thanks. If it's any help, I'm not going to sea as such, some local safety boat stuff but mostly on land (harbourside)


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 6, 2018)

having thought about it, unite do represent some maritime workers (e.g. woolwich ferry)


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## rubbershoes (Apr 8, 2018)

twentythreedom said:


> I've got a council job for the summer (and possibly longer) in the maritime industry.
> 
> I know SFA about unions. Shoulld I join a union, if so which one?
> 
> Thanks



East India Club


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## Epona (Apr 8, 2018)

I think it's best to turn up to a job, see if a union is active in a workplace, find a rep and get a form to fill in to join.  If there is a union agreement at your employment, you will be best off joining the one that negotiates your terms and conditions.  It's not always obvious which union is recognised at a workplace eg. Unison represents a wide array of staff, but nurses in some charity sector jobs have Unite negotiating their terms and conditions - so (whatever I think of the 2 unions) it is better for them to be in Unite for the purposes of union/workplace solidarity. 

If you turn up and there's no union presence in your new work place at all, and no-one else you work with is in a union, *then* find out which ones might be appropriate for your industry or services sector, and decide between them.


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## twentythreedom (Apr 8, 2018)

Cheers all


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## Riklet (Apr 8, 2018)

I would def go with RMT if its anything to do with ports boats sea kinda stuff.

They seem pretty good, generally.


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## Voley (Apr 8, 2018)

Agree with Sue about waiting till you're there twentythreedom. A lot depends on how good your local rep is. I've been fairly critical of UNISON on these boards in the past due to their poor communication with members at Lambeth Council but the local rep where I work now was excellent when I had some issues with management recently. My £11.50 a month is very good value where I work now.


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## twentythreedom (Apr 8, 2018)

Thanks for all the replies. I will wait until I start to see what's up.

Have got two friends who already work in the same job so will ask them what they know.

Is there anything else I should be aware of / thinking about when starting this job other than unions? Recent pension laws etc?

I haven't got a fucking clue tbf, never been in a union, had any kind of pension or worked for a council before


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## Voley (Apr 8, 2018)

You'll probably get auto-enrolled in the council's pension scheme and it's usually worthwhile. Local govt 'final salary' schemes used to be pretty good but our glorious leaders have decided they were a bit too good for the likes of us so they tend to be not so great these days. Still worthwhile, though, as your employer contributes and you get tax/NI* relief on it so it's free money basically. *I can't remember if it's tax or NI you get back but it's money back anyhow.

I work for a Housing Association now so don't know if mine's comparable - at a guess I'd say it's probably in the same ballpark as a local govt one - and I contribute 10.1% of my salary and my employer contributes 7% and I get the *tax/NI/whatever-it-is relief on it. They might give you a few options though and it's worth speaking to a financial adviser then as the array of options can be bewildering. Mine, for example, is called a "Defined Benefit SHPS Care 1/60 Scheme" and don't ask me wtf that's supposed to mean. All I know is my adviser said that's the one I want. I also do a thing called 'Salary Sacrifice' that makes it a bit more tax-efficient and you have your pension contribution paid differently but I lost some death in service benefits because of this. Again, don't ask me on the detail - a financial adviser is the person to talk to about your individual circumstances.

Tl;dr - the pension's probably worth doing and they'll most likely stick you into it anyhow.


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