# The Leaders' Mass Debate



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Thought tonight's mass debate warranted a separate thread to avoid clogging up the broader GE thread.

I'll be watching it, anyone else?


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

no, i have a life


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

I'd rather drop my bollocks in the toaster tbf.


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## Belushi (Apr 2, 2015)

I might do, but I'll invariably be disappointed when it doesn't descend in to a mass brawl.


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## Belushi (Apr 2, 2015)

I'll be cheering on Leanne if it does turn in to a battle royale though :thumbs :


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## agricola (Apr 2, 2015)

Sleepy Hollow is on at that time, a vastly superior thing to watch even if today's episode does feature an angel trying to chat up Abbie.


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## pseudonarcissus (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm hoping it will feature on Gogglebox tonight, the filter I prefer to watch my TV through

eta....of course, it's only Thursday today!


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I'll be cheering on Leanne if it does turn in to a battle royale though :thumbs :


let them just get miliband, cameron and clegg on the floor and make sure none of them gets up again.


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## Kesher (Apr 2, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> no, i have a life



With a message count since 2003  approaching 100,000,  surely that means a life on Urban 75.


I'm looking forward to the debate.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

Kesher said:


> With a message count since 2003  approaching 100,000,  you must  mean a life on Urban 75.


if you've only found 340 things to say on urban over the past 8 years on urban i'm not surprised you're eagerly anticipating the debate.


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

lol


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm looking forward to a virtuoso display off mass debating from all of them


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## maomao (Apr 2, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if you've only found 340 things to say on urban over the past 8 years on urban i'm not surprised you're eagerly anticipating the debate.


Not enough nonce threads to keep a man like Kesher entertained.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm looking forward to a virtuoso display off mass debating from all of them


pass the mind bleach please


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)




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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

maomao said:


> Not enough nonce threads to keep a man like Kesher entertained.


never noticed kesher before, tbh.


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## maomao (Apr 2, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> never noticed kesher before, tbh.


notorious thread in support of cartoon child porn, a thread on k-pop girl groups (bit worrying for a man in his 50s) and a declared interest in hiring prostitutes in Thailand.


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Worse still, they're taking it in turns, only get a minute or two to do it and then there's a session of audience participation.

You'd think Cameron will be the best though, surely his school days will have prepared him for this kind of activity?


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

maomao said:


> notorious thread in support of cartoon child porn, a thread on k-pop girl groups (bit worrying for a man in his 50s and a declared interest in hiring prostitutes in Thailand.


ta


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

maomao and chilango posts read together are


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Worse still, they're taking it in turns, only get a minute or two to do it and then there's a session of audience participation.
> 
> You'd think Cameron will be the best though, surely his school days will have prepared him for this kind of activity?


he'll take the biscuit


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> he'll take the biscuit



It'll be a damp squib though, even soggy.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> It'll be a damp squib though, even soggy.


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

get a life


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## ddraig (Apr 2, 2015)

Leanne will wipe the floor with all of them, with words and actions


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)




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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

I have no intention of watching most of the election tv dribble, but I might watch this one since there will at least be some direct confrontation. And the media might, if anything vaguely interesting happens, fixate on it for ages, and I want to have my own opinion of performances and what transpires.


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

The last political tv debate I saw that was any real fun to watch was that one where Bushs brain and/or radio receptacle fell out and he became some kind of potato.


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 2, 2015)

what time/channel is this on then?


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm gonna watch it, has potential to be a clusterfuck mass debate. Sky?


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## pogofish (Apr 2, 2015)

Have they announced where these debates are happening?

Just that we got told at work today that we need to clear much of our gear because our big hall is going to be taken over by the BBC soon and ITV news is going to need facillities as well.  That's usually the sign of something big.


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

Tonights is an ITV thing.

But I think the BBC mentioned they will be showing it on the BBC news channel, so there may be a cross-channel deal.


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## Kesher (Apr 2, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> if you've only found 340 things to say on urban over the past 8 years on urban i'm not surprised you're eagerly anticipating the debate.



340  things to say on Urban in past 8 years because I do have a  life and the debate only takes two hours out of it


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

pogofish said:


> Have they announced where these debates are happening?
> 
> Just that we got told at work today that we need to clear much of our gear because our big hall is going to be taken over by the BBC soon and ITV news is going to need facillities as well.  That's usually the sign of something big.



This one is in Salford.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

8-10 itv

I'll watch the start and see how it goes.


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 2, 2015)

edit: butchers already answered


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## pogofish (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> This one is in Salford.



Its a week or two yet for us.  Think we were told to have our stuff out in ten days.  Which is a right headache as its going to need scaffolding and demounting a bloody great screen.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

Kesher said:


> 340  things to say on Urban in past 8 years because I do have a  life and the debate only takes two hours out of it


do enjoy it.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

This is the only actual _debate_. No others. The BBC have a thing where all three are asked questions by an audience separately though.


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

Kesher said:


> 340  things to say on Urban in past 8 years because I do have a  life and the debate only takes two hours out of it



Yeah but that debate isn't on Urban, it's on telly and that.


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

pogofish said:


> Its a week or two yet for us.  Think we were told to have our stuff out in ten days.  Which is a right headache as its going to need scaffolding and demounting a bloody great screen.



There is a BBC Dimbleby debate with 'challenger parties' (biggest beasts absent) on April 16th.


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)




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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

I will. I really don't know if to vote or not. On the one hand I swore not to vote after voting Lib Dem last time (bunch of cunts they turned out to be) and Labour time before (cash for questions, expenses saga, Iraq lies bunch of cunts they turned out to be). So I swore there was fuck all between them and never again etc.

Then I think of Cameron and Osbourne getting in again and I just think my god.

I really am utterly undecided. I mean whether to or not for a start and then the prospect of feeling culpable when some career fucking dick gets in power like Miliband and starts fucking it up. What does he know? I bet the guys never even had a proper job, doesn't live in his constituency, and what does it matter anyway it's all a farce. House of Lords. Buy your peerage, buy your power, nu Labour. But Cameron, and Osbourne. My god.

Just really don't know. Think I'll regret voting but won't regret not voting.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> I will. I really don't know if to vote or not. On the one hand I swore not to vote after voting Lib Dem last time (bunch of cunts they turned out to be) and Labour time before (cash for questions, expenses saga, Iraq lies bunch of cunts they turned out to be). So I swore there was fuck all between them and never again etc.


you'll be swearing again between now and the election. and certainly after it.


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## Greebo (Apr 2, 2015)

I still have dvds to watch, so no.


Buckaroo said:


> <snip> has potential to be a clusterfuck mass debate. <snip>


Aka a load of wank.


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

Greebo said:


> I still have dvds to watch, so no.
> 
> Aka a load of wank.


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> you'll be swearing again between now and the election. and certainly after it.


Do you pickmans? I really don't know if to. It feels childish not to in some ways (like thank god I don't live in some sort of dictatorship or one party state and we have it good here) on the other... I despise them.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Do you pickmans? I really don't know if to. It feels childish not to in some ways (like thank god I don't live in some sort of dictatorship or one party state and we have it good here) on the other... I despise them.


yeh but when you think this lot and their ilk created and supported a lot of those dictatorships... dictatorships don't just make themselves, you know.


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## Zapp Brannigan (Apr 2, 2015)

Disappointed there isn't to be an eighth podium for the giant hairy spunking cock.


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## skyscraper101 (Apr 2, 2015)

Do you think they'll have walk on music like in the boxing? Be great to see them each out to some gangster hip hop surrounded by a massive entourage of heavies.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> Do you think they'll have walk on music like in the boxing? Be great to see them each out to some gangster hip hop surrounded by a massive entourage of heavies.


be better to see them later on with seven shades of shit knocked out of them.


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

I will be watching.

Is it not a civic duty to abase oneself by exposure to such a spectacle?

However I am at the moment considering the implications of doing a survey earlier which said my beliefs most matched the Greens!


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

My pre fight analysis:

Cameron and Milliband have the most to lose, Farage the most to gain.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

weltweit said:


> My pre fight analysis:
> 
> Cameron and Milliband have the most to lose, Farage the most to gain.


yeh but will nf (which is how i think he should be referred to on urban)?


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

This is it!


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh but when you think this lot and their ilk created and supported a lot of those dictatorships... dictatorships don't just make themselves, you know.


God yeah. It's just hopeless isn't it.

But is it worth it to have someone minorly less fucking awful than Cameron? That's the question. Do you support the entire stinking edifice to get fucked over just a _bit_ less.


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

Hope my broadband hold up for it!


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

Has no one a bingo card for this?


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> God yeah. It's just hopeless isn't it.
> 
> But is it worth it to have someone minorly less fucking awful than Cameron? That's the question. Do you support the entire stinking edifice to get fucked over just a _bit_ less.


blow it up, burn it down, just kick it till it breaks.


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Has no one a bingo card for this?



I've seen several widely circulated.


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

The end of two party politics could have been predicted when the two main parties decided both to occupy the middle ground such that hardly any difference between them remains.


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

At least we can do the modern form of heckling, I really like the internet for that. The idea of getting through the next two hours without being able to type the piss out of these chumpsticks is hard to contemplate.


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> blow it up, burn it down, just kick it till it breaks.


I've not got the energy lol

Eta feeling poorly


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## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> I've not got the energy lol


maybe you'll feel better in the morning.


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

elbows said:


> At least we can do the modern form of heckling, I really like the internet for that. The idea of getting through the next two hours without being able to type the piss out of these chumpsticks is hard to contemplate.


I was considering engaging on twitter but there have already been 9,000 tweets and it hasn't even started yet!


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

weltweit said:


> The end of two party politics could have been predicted when the two main parties decided both to occupy the middle ground such that hardly any difference between them remains.


Why do you think that happened?


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## JimW (Apr 2, 2015)

What's the bingo words for the drinking game? "Hard-working families" would have to be in there.


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Why do you think that happened?


Probably because the majority of "voting Britons" favours that political position.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Clegg you cunt!!!


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

If for some reason someone out there needs to watch it this way, the BBC internet live feed of the debate is here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/election-2015-32137362


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

X factor style, Nice!


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Only 50% of the people on stage are oxbridge. Progress.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Out of puff already.

edit: her, not me.


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Bennett was crap.


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## Supine (Apr 2, 2015)

Green Party leader is a foreigner! Well I never knew that


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Massive difference between that and Farage -  Farage is a proper politician.


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Yup


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Fuck off "Nick"


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

Clegg taking the piss


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Liar


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

Cleggy, my canapés are too salty


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Went to get my tea out of the oven and missed Sturgeon completely. Oh well.


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

"I'm from the Rhondda". Nice touch.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

They were all on a diff level than Bennet - Wood might have done the NS wider stuff, but no prob...


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Jonny Tudor lol


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Look at that litle shit.

Clegg i mean, back with the first name bollocks _well johnny_


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Bennett was way out of her league. Appalling. Despite using many of the right words. Farage did well.


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Look at that litle shit.
> 
> Clegg i mean, back with the first name bollocks


He is a cunt isn't he


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

Odds of Johnny Tudor becoming a Tory MP within the next decade?


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

Cameron does not want to put up taxes. What was VAT then?


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2015)

shouting level 8.5 has been reached.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage making good early running. Got the no-nonsense thing going straightaway.


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## Belushi (Apr 2, 2015)

They all look like they were made by Jim Henson


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Farage making good early running. Got the no-nonsense thing going straightaway.



Just said exactly the same. <shudders>


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## Supine (Apr 2, 2015)

I wish millitwit would stop staring straight into the camera


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## Belushi (Apr 2, 2015)

Bennett is bloody awful, they must have media training in the greens?


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> shouting level 8.5 has been reached.



Been bollocked by abs already


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Better from Bennett.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Bennett is bloody awful, they must have media training in the greens?


I think she did better there by making it small.


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## oryx (Apr 2, 2015)

Me & OH are too busy laughing at Little Johnny to follow it.


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I think she did better there by making it small.



Yep. She can't help her voice, but she said the right things there.


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

Worse than question time, worse than big questions, worse than kyle


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## OneStrike (Apr 2, 2015)

When is Paxman on?


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Fuck off Nick. 

Ha ha Cameron interrupting him.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2015)

shit off nick


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Why is Miliband doing that weird fake staring meaningfully into the camera. So creepy and insincere.


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

oryx said:


> Me & OH are too busy laughing at Little Johnny to follow it.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Wonder how people will react to clegg and cameron bickering like actors.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm actually watching this. 

#notenoughrope


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

Probably a good thing none of the males wore a novelty tie!


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## Coolfonz (Apr 2, 2015)

My Masterchef isn't anything like this   Are we watching the same episode?


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Why is Miliband doing that weird fake staring meaningfully into the camera. So creepy and insincere.



cos he's creepy & insincere.


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

At least that Scottish woman seems genuine


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Cameron talks about Labour borrowing too much, Miliband fails to mention that the tories have borrowed more money than any government ever


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Did Clegg just says Mr Cuts and Mr Borrow? What a fucking greasy shit.


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Sturgeon doing well though.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Why won't that posh lady let them speak for more than 60s as well?


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage is doing well.


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

Argh the credit cards


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2015)

oh the credit card that 'we' max out


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Clegg is getting shafted from all sides!


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## oryx (Apr 2, 2015)

Impressed with Sturgeon so far - can't vote for her though.

LOL at milliband LOL at Cameron!


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## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

Clegg, Cameron and Miliband really want to talk amoung themselves.


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Clegg is getting shafted from all sides!


Actually I don't think he is doing too badly.
Honestly


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Clegg is getting shafted from all sides!



Even shafted himself!


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Ooh that green Australian speaks well!


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## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

Bennett making good points, just shame she's such a terrible speaker.


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Cameron and his shitty prop.


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## prunus (Apr 2, 2015)

A standard old fashioned revolver only holds 6 bullets.  What a dilemma.


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## oryx (Apr 2, 2015)

Cameron already looking rattled - frowning and hectoring.


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Urgh! "The people at home" fuck off.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

prunus said:


> A standard old fashioned revolver only holds 6 bullets.  What a dilemma.


It's got two ends.


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Going to have to switch it off. Can't be fucking doing with it.


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## Belushi (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage performing very well


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2015)

working families


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage still winning.


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## pogofish (Apr 2, 2015)

elbows said:


> There is a BBC Dimbleby debate with 'challenger parties' (biggest beasts absent) on April 16th.



Thanks - I'll find out more tomorrow/Monday.  There's no chance of us starting this week!


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Farage performing very well


He's treating it like it's his stage.


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## DotCommunist (Apr 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Farage performing very well


putting it right on cam


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Going to have to switch it off. Can't be fucking doing with it.


Supervet on 4 - will make you smile and make you cry.


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

extra taxes was not a phrase Cameron wanted to use, but he did, oops.


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## passenger (Apr 2, 2015)

Cameron bless him, looks like he needs the loo


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Supervet on 4 - will make you smile and make you cry.



Coast Australia


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

'I'll have a banker's bonus tax to get young people back to work'

What? What the fuck are you on about man?


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

The canny scots  Farage playing for laughs now


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Absolutely will never vote for Miliband. No way. Couldn't bring myself. Had no idea he was sooo insincere. Horrible career sound bite substanceless weird fake suit.


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## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

passenger said:


> Cameron bless him looks like he needs the loo



He actually used that technique deliberately at some EU meeting, there was press about it at the time.


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## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

let him answer Posh woman


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## passenger (Apr 2, 2015)

elbows said:


> He actually used that technique deliberately at some EU meeting, there was press about it at the time.


did they let him go ?


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Absolutely will never vote for Miliband. No way. Couldn't bring myself. Had no idea he was sooo insincere. Horrible career sound bite substanceless weird fake suit.


Fake suit?


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Good, Bennett, good.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Is clegg grooming johnny or something?


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Clegg looking utterly lost and out of the loop.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Good, Bennett, good.


For the niche she's after concentrating on social effects like that is the way to go. She's going to run out of stuff soon though i think.


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Anti-austerity winning the argument here. Farage looking very much the fringe nutcase he is.


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Fake suit?


Fake in a suit


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## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Clegg looking utterly lost and out of the loop.



He'll be looking even more lost when he loses his seat next month


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

No, Bennett, no!


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## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage only has one thing to say


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

The foreign aid budget is really not the soft target Nigel thinks it is.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> No, Bennett, no!


Not quite staying local there!


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## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 2, 2015)

#Masterchef


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> The foreign aid budget is really not the soft target Nigel thinks it is.


It is.


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

Am I the only one who thinks it is a bit sterile without any audience response ..


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage and Sturgeon took that round.


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage looks like crazy frog


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## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Farage and Sturgeon took that round.


Agreed


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## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Not quite staying local there!



No need for her to intervene there.


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

elbows said:


> He actually used that technique deliberately at some EU meeting, there was press about it at the time.



And at the hands/notes free tory conference the year before, got it from Enoch Powell apparently, Milliband tried it last year and fucked up, not sure if he pissed his pants but forgot to mention the deficit.


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> It is.



Yeah but if I said Farage was wearing a blue tie with white spots you'd tell me I was wrong.


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## oryx (Apr 2, 2015)

Sturgeon splendid on nhs


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## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Am I the only one who thinks it is a bit sterile without any audience response ..



It's a bit weird. Why are they even there?


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah but if I said Farage was wearing a blue tie with white spots you'd tell me I was wrong.


For UKIP friendly voters (from both tory/lab backgrounds)it's a piece of piss easy win - like hospital parking charging. You might not like this but it's electoral reality. Don't start whining already.


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 2, 2015)

obviously I hate miliband and in my voting habits I take politicial tribalism to the extreme with my support for the spunking cock party, but I actually think he's been far less disasterous than might have been expected so far.


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## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Clegg : _we all love the NHS, but..._


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## binka (Apr 2, 2015)

put your money where your heart is


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## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

Bennet being Bennite.


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## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

As a spectacle wearer I feel under represented


----------



## Tankus (Apr 2, 2015)

I really like a Rhondda accent


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Don't overdo the nationalism LW.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> For UKIP friendly voters it's a piece of piss easy win - like hospital parking charging. You might not like this but it's electoral reality. Don't start whining already.



But everyone who thinks the biggest problem we've got is foreign aid is probably already planning to vote for him. If he's aiming at anyone in the middle ground he's on a hiding to nothing. Hospital parking, that's an easy target that might appeal to ordinary people.


----------



## Dovydaitis (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage is going to do well out of this. Milliband looks like a platypus


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Milliband ok on the NHS there.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Tankus said:


> I really like a Rhondda accent



Especially when they say 'valleys'


----------



## Dovydaitis (Apr 2, 2015)

Disco, stop bringing Ivan into it!


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> But everyone who thinks the biggest problem we've got is foreign aid is probably already planning to vote for him. If he's aiming at anyone in the middle ground he's on a hiding to nothing. Hospital parking, that's an easy target that might appeal to ordinary people.


No they're not - they're polling 13-18% -there's massive chunks they can take out of both labour and tory - these _common sense bollocks _issues are an easy way into that.


----------



## Tankus (Apr 2, 2015)

Banksta's tax has been pre allocated multiple times already


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 2, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Am I the only one who thinks it is a bit sterile without any audience response ..


Ms Hatter has suggested dubbing some canned laughter over the top.

I think only Sturgeon is making any impact that might impress a neutral voter…

Now cameron using his dead son again to score points on the NHS.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

I don't think Miliband has an autocue but he looks for all the world like he's using one.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Is that true that Miliband cut the NHS in Wales?


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Is that true that Miliband cut the NHS in Wales?


Labour in Wales didn't protect the NHS budget, so, yes. They'd argue they chose to cut social services less than in England.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Look at Cleggs body stance


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> No they're not - they're polling 13-18% -there's massive chunks they can take out of both labour and tory - these _common sense bollocks _issues are an easy way into that.



Foreign aid isn't a 'common sense' issue though, or it is but in the opposite direction from what Farage thinks.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Is that true that Miliband cut the NHS in Wales?


When?


----------



## StoneRoad (Apr 2, 2015)

'kin 'ell - nearly as bad as PMG for interruptions !


----------



## JimW (Apr 2, 2015)

Cameron's admitting Tories give you cancer


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Foreign aid isn't a 'common sense' issue though, or it is but in the opposite direction from what Farage thinks.


That's exactly what it is to those voters he is after.


----------



## SpineyNorman (Apr 2, 2015)

he might be a cunt but farrage is fucking good at this isn't he?


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> When?


I don't know that's just what Cameron said


----------



## oryx (Apr 2, 2015)

OH reckons Cameron is trying to take the credit for increased cancer survival rates!


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> I don't know that's just what Cameron said


He's never been in a position to do any such thing.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 2, 2015)

SpineyNorman said:


> he might be a cunt but farrage is fucking good at this isn't he?


style (& confidence) over content


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> He's never been in a position to do any such thing.


The Labour Welsh Assembly government cut the Welsh NHS budget.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Shame on Labour for introducing pfi. Honestly shame on them.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> The Labour Welsh Assembly government cut the Welsh NHS budget.


I'm sure they did, but not at Miliband s direction.


----------



## oryx (Apr 2, 2015)

Very insulting to non-clinical NHS staff to be sneeringly termed bureaucrats...


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I'm sure they did, but not at Miliband s direction.



Yes, but that's what Cameron is talking about.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Ha ha Clegg! They're all laughing at you!


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Yes, but that's what Cameron is talking about.


Nancy asked if Miliband cut it though, like it was his doing.


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)




----------



## maomao (Apr 2, 2015)

The SNP are winning for me. I'm disappointed they're not running in Romford.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

Timmy, Terry and Tammy


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Now he's claiming to have reduced bureaucracy in the NHS. Maybe he's fired a lot of bureaucrats but he's given their jobs to doctors who should be busy actually treating people, not doing paperwork.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Shame on Labour for starting the privatisation of the NHS.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage going full Clarkson here.


----------



## Kesher (Apr 2, 2015)

SpineyNorman said:


> he might be a cunt but farrage is fucking good at this isn't he?



Politics aside Farage reminds me of George Galloway: highly articulate  making points concisely


----------



## passenger (Apr 2, 2015)

farage the new winston adolf  hitler-curch


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

Foreigners with bad AIDS.


----------



## lizzieloo (Apr 2, 2015)

maomao said:


> The SNP are winning for me. I'm disappointed they're not running in Romford.



Ditto here


----------



## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

Oh the audience are there after all


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Woo. Why can't I vote for Nicola Stugeon!


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

That applause broke the rules I believe. Good thing to break it for.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 2, 2015)

Sturgeon is good, if I were a Scot I'd vote for her.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Sturgeon is impressing. Farage needs a new trick.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

A particular new low from Farage with the HIV stuff.


----------



## lizzieloo (Apr 2, 2015)

I don't like it when Milliband looks at me


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

The commentary on here is far better than actually watching the guff


----------



## oryx (Apr 2, 2015)

Good on Leanne wood for telling farage he should be ashamed of his comments about people with aids.


----------



## Supine (Apr 2, 2015)

When does Al Murry Pub Landlord get his go?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

'We're not allowed to talk about this but...(goes on to talk about it)'

You are allowed to talk about it mate, but if you talk about it and say thinks that make you look a cunt then people might start calling you a cunt.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

oryx said:


> Good on Leanne wood for telling garage he should be ashamed of his comments about people with aids.


Yes


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

I'd be fairly confident that a lot of the NHS jobs Cameron reckons were lost were of people made redundant when primary care trusts went and were then rehired by the clinical commissioning boards. A triumph!


----------



## SpineyNorman (Apr 2, 2015)

Brixton Hatter said:


> style (& confidence) over content



I don't think that's true at all. He's hitting precisely the right points to appeal to his base and those he wants to extend it to contain.


----------



## treelover (Apr 2, 2015)

Reckon Bennet is making some very strong points, very forcefully, Leanne has decide to go parochial, shame, but its good to hear Sturgeon defending benefit claimants,


sadly, the 'worm' on BBC News rises considerably when Cameron is on.

Oh, and pls stop 'hailing the public' Ed


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 2, 2015)

oryx said:


> Very insulting to non-clinical NHS staff to be sneeringly termed bureaucrats...


Yeah the country's biggest employer has no need of managers and HR people and policy wonks, and accountants, etc


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Cleggs on the money with the three things the NHS needs mind you


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Farage going full Clarkson here.



N word? or just twatted Nick?


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Leanne Wood doing well now too.


----------



## maomao (Apr 2, 2015)

Leanne Wood is kind of hot.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Cleggs on the money with the three things the NHS needs mind you



If only he'd spent the last five years in some kind of government.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Now he's taking credit for 'uncovering' mid staffs. Jesus fuck


----------



## Belushi (Apr 2, 2015)

maomao said:


> Leanne Wood is kind of hot.



Of course, she's Welsh


----------



## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

I think about now Cameron is regretting agreeing to do this, he isn't coming across very sympathetically.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm moving to either Scotland or Wales ASAP.


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

Tories lecturing on exposing coverups is quite mind boggling I have to say.


----------



## passenger (Apr 2, 2015)

did she really just say that


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Say what? I was checking on my roast carrots...


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Ooh the Farage section coming up....


----------



## treelover (Apr 2, 2015)

> Miliband says his two sons were born in a PFI hospital. There is a role for the private sector in health.


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

Where's the money for all these nurses and Doctors on weekend and evening money? Where's the childcare? Fucking pipe dream stuff.


----------



## peterkro (Apr 2, 2015)

And over to the sponsors,brain cell killing news at ten.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

elbows said:


> Tories lecturing on exposing coverups is quite mind boggling I have to say.



Leon Brittan sadly unavailable for comment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 2, 2015)

weltweit said:


> I think about now Cameron is regretting agreeing to do this, he isn't coming across very sympathetically.


that's cos he's a knob


----------



## oryx (Apr 2, 2015)

Surely everyone is going to have a pop at Cameron next for the tories missing their own immigration targets....


----------



## lizzieloo (Apr 2, 2015)

How are the Greens gonna pay for all elderly folk in care? All of them


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Half time- farage doing well, even that HIV stuff is well targeted, he doesn't care if people on here up in arms - Sturgeon doing really well (which undermines Tories SNP/lab danger stuff), wood doing well at times but too small in focus. Rest a blur.


----------



## rekil (Apr 2, 2015)

Miliband's "Limits to privatisation" got a laugh here.


----------



## Kesher (Apr 2, 2015)

maomao said:


> Leanne Wood is kind of hot.



Good someone  else said it first


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

oryx said:


> Surely everyone is going to have a pop at Cameron next for the tories missing their own immigration targets....



It's Labour's fault for 'letting them all in'.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

Never seen the moderator before, is she a tv personality I have missed?


----------



## oryx (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's Labour's fault for 'letting them all in'.


Yep, that's tory quote bingo!


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

Kesher said:


> Good someone  else said it first



get a life


----------



## Up the junction (Apr 2, 2015)

Her off Star Trek looks a bit overdressed - how comes she's asking all the questions?


----------



## lizzieloo (Apr 2, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Never seen the moderator before, is she a tv personality I have missed?



Robot


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

I hate it when Miliband apologises for his rabble 'letting in' all these folk from eastern Europe. Those people are still here you know, they have jobs and houses and their kids go to school here, and they can _hear_ you when you say these things. Don't be so fucking disrespectful


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Half time- farage doing well, even that HIV stuff is well targeted, he doesn't care if people on here up in arms



So it wasn't along the lines of, all people with HIV should be shot?


----------



## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

On twitter: Never been a better time to nuke Manchester!


----------



## free spirit (Apr 2, 2015)

No wonder SNP are on course to pretty much sweep the boards in scotland.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Stfu with all this 'she's hot' shit. Tiresome men.


----------



## treelover (Apr 2, 2015)

lizzieloo said:


> Robot



nah, Julie Etchingham is a accomplished journalist

the BBC 'worm' voters seem a very conservative lot.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> So it wasn't along the lines of, all people with HIV should be shot?


I didn't even hear it, i had internet down for 15 minutes.

Clegg - no one even cares:


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

weltweit said:


> On twitter: Never been a better time to nuke Manchester!


----------



## JimW (Apr 2, 2015)

treelover said:


> nah, Julie Etchingham is a accomplished journalist
> 
> the BBC 'worm' voters seem a very conservative lot.


That's just the demographic that watches the news channel.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

treelover said:


> nah, Julie Etchingham is a accomplished journalist
> 
> the BBC 'worm' voters seem a very conservative lot.


What accomplished journalism has she done that's stuck in your mind?


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

Not ex communist countries!


----------



## treelover (Apr 2, 2015)

Balanced view on immigration from Nicola, controls, yes, but no scapegoating.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> What accomplished journalism has she done that's stuck in your mind?


...and why does she keep saying thank you to clegg?


----------



## passenger (Apr 2, 2015)

the green party look shit


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

'australian style points system' must be on the drinking bingo card?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

And 'good immigrants vs bad immigrants', there's another one from the card.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

passenger said:


> the green party look shit



Not really.

Bennett is saying the right things (from their POV) but too often saying them badly.

Being easily outdone by Sturgeon on similar terrain though.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Half-time @ComResPolls scores.

Peforming best: 
Farage 22 
Miliband 21 
Cameron 19 
Sturgeon 18 
Clegg 10 
Bennett 7 
Wood 2 #leadersdebate


----------



## lizzieloo (Apr 2, 2015)

treelover said:


> nah, Julie Etchingham is a accomplished journalist
> 
> the BBC 'worm' voters seem a very conservative lot.



I don't _actually_ think she's a robot


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Half-time @ComResPolls scores.
> 
> Peforming best: Farage 22 Miliband 21 Cameron 19 Sturgeon 18 Clegg 10 Bennett 7 Wood 2 #leadersdebate



Seems harsh on Wood and generous to Clegg.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

Think Cameron's bladder is straining.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Think Cameron's bladder is straining.



A gun to his head would really tip it


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Bennett's focus is terrible.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 2, 2015)

She's pretty embarassing


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage: it's the ordinary people of Britain paying with compressed wages for the benefits to business of immigration


----------



## maomao (Apr 2, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> A gun to his head would really tip it


Hang him and he'll shit himself as well.


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

Miliband 'people at home' Drink!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Clegg actually said 'bad immigration'. Again


----------



## souljacker (Apr 2, 2015)

The positive/negative thing on bbc news is pretty mesmerising.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Bennett's focus is terrible.



She seems to be doing well imo, not sure if that's low expectations etc


----------



## SpineyNorman (Apr 2, 2015)

Bored with it now. I'm gonna watch funny videos on YouTube about pissed up monkeys or something


----------



## lizzieloo (Apr 2, 2015)

souljacker said:


> The positive/negative thing on bbc news is pretty mesmerising.



Link? or BBC news on the telly?


----------



## souljacker (Apr 2, 2015)

Here he goes.


----------



## souljacker (Apr 2, 2015)

lizzieloo said:


> Link? or BBC news on the telly?



http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/live/bbcnews

Will be on the telly too.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 2, 2015)

Clegg comes over as a desperate man


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

child shouting in the background

edit: not clegg - did anyone else hear it?


----------



## binka (Apr 2, 2015)

im getting a headache


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Can't actually remember anything of substance that Clegg or Cameron have said.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> child shouting in the background
> 
> edit: not clegg - did anyone else hear it?



Cleggy's been moved to the back?


----------



## souljacker (Apr 2, 2015)

Whoever told Miliband to do the looking to the camera thing should be sacked immediately.


----------



## binka (Apr 2, 2015)

how many of those apprenticeships are in things like customer service or telesales? jobs which used to pay minimum wage


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 2, 2015)

Cameron  "We've created 2 million jobs."

Really?


----------



## souljacker (Apr 2, 2015)

Fucking still plugging "right to buy". Fucking cunt.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Good Bennett. Simple.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

How the hell do the Green Party plan to pay for all the stuff they promise? Fantasy stuff


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Fuck off Clegg.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

souljacker said:


> Whoever told Miliband to do the looking to the camera thing should be sacked immediately.



Horrifying isn't it?


----------



## treelover (Apr 2, 2015)

souljacker said:


> The positive/negative thing on bbc news is pretty mesmerising.




That's the worm I keep mentioning, fifty 'undecided' voters, not bbc viewers per ce.

Cameron, the cheek of that man, he plans to stop HB for under 25 year olds, why is Ed so anodyne tonight, he should attack him on that


----------



## binka (Apr 2, 2015)

we did the next best thing


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> How the hell do the Green Party plan to pay for all the stuff they promise? Fantasy stuff



They're gonna save money by turning off all those big white wind machines standing around in fields.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> How the hell do the Green Party plan to pay for all the stuff they promise? Fantasy stuff



Cos they're not going to be the government they won't have to. It's more about positioning themselves on these issues.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> Cameron  "We've created 2 million jobs."
> 
> Really?



LOL  Love that chestnut!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Look Ed, Nicola Sturgeon can look into a camera and talk without coming across like a serial killer, why the fuck can't you?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage attacks private schools in a really odd way.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

Something about Clegg's hair and the skin on his neck, kinell he's a bit lizardy


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

No, Cameron, that's a bad place to go...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

I want someone to just say 'tits' for no reason in the middle of a sentence so I can see that graph spike upwards.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 2, 2015)

Next question will be about paedophiles in government.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage went to Dulwich College, the twat.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage attacks the elite in Class War shocker...

…then tells people they're too stupid to go to University...


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Clegg really should know better than to talk about education.


----------



## SE25 (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage is a fucking joke.

Shame I can't vote for the SNP. Missed opportunity.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Just terrible Clegg.


----------



## JimW (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage for a slightly expanded elite.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Ed gets something right. Stopped clocks etc.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Something about Clegg's hair and the skin on his neck, kinell he's a bit lizardy



5 years of guilt.


----------



## farmerbarleymow (Apr 2, 2015)

I didn't realise it was taking place in Salford Quays - I could have went and heckled the bastards.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

bring back grammars/mickey mouse degrees are pretty solid right-wing populism though...


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

The Greens need to become the political wing of an armed group so that they get their stuff said by a trained actor's voice like Sinn Feinn in the 80s instead of Bennett.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Benett dispelling the myths there - cookery classes ffs


----------



## SovietArmy (Apr 2, 2015)

All leaders living in fiery tale.  I agree with Greens but how she can do it?  Miliband what his talking not make sense at all same applies to Nick.  Anyway I don't give fuck I am immigrant as Cameron, Farage even Miliband don't like immigrants


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

I learned cookery at school. Didn't everyone?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 2, 2015)

best point by Natalie Bennet so far imo suggesting kids should have education for life, not just for work - including learning first aid, cooking, sex & relationship education and personal finance education.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 2, 2015)

"None of these guys can be trusted"


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

SE25 said:


> Farage is a fucking joke.


He's my father in law in politician form. Literally pretty much every opinion he offers is what he'd say. Even down to grammar schools, getting young people into trades not university, immigration, brown site development. You can hate him but you can't say he's out of touch.


----------



## JimW (Apr 2, 2015)

First aid was a weird sounding thing to start with on broader education despite being fairly sensible. Bit Brazilian arse wasp.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> 5 years of guilt.



No signs of guilt on Clegg.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

rent to own .. can't see my landlord agreeing to that


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

I agree with Nick


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> "None of these guys can be trusted"



Boris turned up & said that?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 2, 2015)

They should intersperse each question with a vote off, you are the weakest link, goodbye.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

Ed's hair is a bit weird too or maybe it's his skull.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Heckler!


----------



## JimW (Apr 2, 2015)

God bless our soldiers


----------



## Tankus (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> I learned cookery at school. Didn't everyone?


Not one lesson ......girls did cookery.... boys did metal and woodwork


----------



## lizzieloo (Apr 2, 2015)

I've decided I'm gonna vote SNP with my marker pen


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> No signs of guilt on Clegg.



Brown nose?


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

Clout.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Climate change????


----------



## JimW (Apr 2, 2015)

Brazilian arse wasp figures!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Oh yeah, I forgot about the end of the world.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Oh Bennett


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Tankus said:


> Not one lesson ......girls did cookery.... boys did metal and woodwork



I did cookery - home economics irrc. Betty barrel legs was a fascist, so lessons were unproductive.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Nick visibly gasping for a fag.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

What was the question again?


----------



## souljacker (Apr 2, 2015)

Has it kicked off?


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

Young people everywhere give up fucking hope....... Jesus


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

souljacker said:


> Has it kicked off?



Reasons to be optimistic.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 2, 2015)

(((rebecca)))


----------



## SovietArmy (Apr 2, 2015)

Is political poetry not elections debate.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

if Nicola Sturgeon was leader of the Labour Party this election would be a landslide.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

JimW said:


> God bless our soldiers



*Insert that photo of Abu Ghraib here*


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Nick visibly gasping for a fag.



Silk cut, Bensons are hard core.


----------



## rekil (Apr 2, 2015)

Victory to the brave PD militant heckler.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Now you're looking at the wrong camera you twat


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

lizzieloo said:


> I've decided I'm gonna vote SNP with my marker pen



Deffo an add on to my ballot spoiler, along with violent anarchism for full communism


----------



## weepiper (Apr 2, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> if Nicola Sturgeon was leader of the Labour Party this election would be a landslide.


One thing to come out of this is that the rest of the UK may understand better why the SNP are heading for a landslide result up here. Salmond wouldn't have come across anywhere near so well.


----------



## treelover (Apr 2, 2015)

Clegg really is conservative, for him the deficit trumps every thing else.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Silk cut, Bensons are hard core.



Silk cut are rubbish. My Gran smoked them all her life and lived to be ninety. They should've given her a bloody refund.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

Hmm they need to wrap this up or they won't have time for their closing statements.
Oh, they did.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

weepiper said:


> One thing to come out of this is that the rest of the UK may understand better why the SNP are heading for a landslide result up here. Salmond wouldn't have come across anywhere near so well.


Getting it both ways, Salmond's deliberate abrasiveness winding their opponents up so they shoot themselves in the foot...


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

weepiper said:


> One thing to come out of this is that the rest of the UK may understand better why the SNP are heading for a landslide result up here. Salmond wouldn't have come across anywhere near so well.


She's awesome


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> *Insert that photo of Abu Ghraib here*



Sas & likesfish got it covered.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Fuck off clegg. You twat.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Sturgeon by a landslide

Farage started strongly but faded a bit.

Wood creditable.

Milliband ok in parts.

Bennett all over the shop, often excellent but often appalling.

Cameron anonymous.

Clegg is finished.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 2, 2015)

Is anyone else just sitting shouting "FUCK OFF!" occasionally?


----------



## JimW (Apr 2, 2015)

He makes "finishing the job" sound like stabbing a man who's down


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

God Miliband _easily_ the worst of the bunch.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

I think I hate Miliband the most.


----------



## souljacker (Apr 2, 2015)

Miliband couldn't win shit. He's blown it already.


----------



## peterkro (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Silk cut are rubbish. My Gran smoked them all her life and lived to be ninety. They should've given her a bloody refund.


Capstan full strength were the real deal. My Auntie smoked them for decades and along with the Vodka in the teapot she died quietly in her sleep at 75.


----------



## oryx (Apr 2, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> Is anyone else just sitting shouting "FUCK OFF!" occasionally?



Me & OH but we have polished off a bottle of wine.


----------



## JimW (Apr 2, 2015)

Couldn't we have a coup instead of voting?


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 2, 2015)

Liked Leanne at the end there.

Natalie trying to remind people Caroline is not her.


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Liked Leanne at the end there.



Her despair comment was great.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

'For Wales to be strong, Plaid Cymru must be strong' sounds more than a bit Stalin-y


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2015)

God, Bennett is terrible. I feel embarrassed for her every time she speaks.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Right, I've stuck a poll on the top. Who won it for you?


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage strong.


----------



## souljacker (Apr 2, 2015)

He's off again. Nurse!


----------



## Belushi (Apr 2, 2015)

Sturgeon by a mile.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Right, I've stuck a poll on the top. Who won it for you?


In terms just of the debate alone or in wider impact etc?

On the first Sturgeon. Kept going all the way through on a  rounded agenda -unlike the other leader, Farage, but he might well have done best in wider aims-chipping away at labour/tory and hardening up existing vote.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Apr 2, 2015)

Sturgeon wins (good performance), Bennett missed opportunity, bit disappointed in Wood, everyone else as expected.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 2, 2015)

I've been out, and probably would have hated this anyway.

Did I miss much?


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Sturgeon by a mile.


Sturgeon. No doubt at all.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> In terms just of the debate alone or in wider impact etc?



Just the debate.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 2, 2015)

Scotland wins then, yeah?


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 2, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> Is anyone else just sitting shouting "FUCK OFF!" occasionally?


Yes and we  have been watching Masterchef, the point being the winner of Masterchef will have more impact on changing anything than any of this lot apart from maybe Ms Sturgeon.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

Does the Green Party leadership election not have hustings or something?


----------



## SovietArmy (Apr 2, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> God, Bennett is terrible. I feel embarrassed for her every time she speaks.



I thought she did good, she got my vote.


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

Cameron with a dull english version of the US campaign slogan 'Dont change horses in midstream'.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

Did Leanne Wood just decline to shake Farage's hand there?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> Scotland wins then, yeah?


But you fail to qualify for the next round.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Right, I've stuck a poll on the top. Who won it for you?



No 'fuck the lot of 'em, where's my shotgun' option?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

I think the ashes are coming home.


----------



## binka (Apr 2, 2015)

elbows said:


> Cameron with a dull english version of the US campaign slogan 'Dont change horses in midstream'.


yes that's what i thought too, definitely echoes of gwb's re-election campaign


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Why the fuck did I just watch that? It was horrible, as I knew it would be


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Farage's closing speech was really fucking good. If you want to shake it up. Bang on.


----------



## 2hats (Apr 2, 2015)

There's still a few days left for the SNP to put up candidates in England and Wales, is there not?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> I've been out, and probably would have hated this anyway.
> 
> Did I miss much?



This thread far better for the health! Though i'd be interested in what Nige said about HIV.


----------



## SE25 (Apr 2, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> God, Bennett is terrible. I feel embarrassed for her every time she speaks.



The Greens would have my vote if not for her


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2015)

SovietArmy said:


> I thought she did good, she got my vote.


Really? On her performance, as opposed to whether you agree with what she said?


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> This thread far better for the health! Though i'd be interested in what Nige said about HIV.


God that was truly awful. Low. Really vile.


----------



## SE25 (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Farage's closing speech was really fucking good. If you want to shake it up. Bang on.



'Shake it up' by voting for full fat Tories. How inspiring.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Why the fuck did I just watch that? It was horrible, as I knew it would be


Yup, this is why I decided against it. I'll maybe read the reviews.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> God that was truly awful. Low. Really vile.



What did he say?


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 2, 2015)

Pretty funny Twitter poll in the Torygraph. SNP by a mile, Greens and Plaid neck and neck for a distant second. Cameron last ... 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...ebates-Who-does-Twitter-think-is-winning.html


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 2, 2015)

The people lose every time.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> What did he say?


There are X numbers of new HIV diagnoses a year. X% are immigrants. The cost of treating them is X per head a year.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> What did he say?


blamed the problems of the NHS on foreigners with HIV.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Buckaroo said:


> Not that it wasn't cricket, it really was.



It was exactly like the cricket. Because England lost.


----------



## paulhackett (Apr 2, 2015)

No-one agrees with Nick any more


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> What did he say?


Bloody foreigners, coming here getting our HIV diagnoses.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

"Here's a fact, and I am sure the other people here will be mortified that I dare to talk about it. There are 7,000 diagnoses in this country every year for people who are HIV positive. It's not a good place for any of them to be, I know.
"Sixty per cent of them are not British nationals. They can come into Britain from anywhere in the world and get diagnosed with HIV and get the retro-viral drugs that cost up to £25,000 per year per patient.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

_Peter Kellner (YouGov) says on first 500 persons polled, Nicola Sturgeon and Nigel Farage are neck and neck but Sturgeon slightly ahead._


----------



## JimW (Apr 2, 2015)

Does Miliband chalk it up as a win if he doesn't fuck it up completely or piss himself?


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

Diseased foreigners.
We're full.
Foreigners depressing wages. 
Bring back grammar schools.
Mickey Mouse degrees.
We're the only ones who believe in Britain.

Right-wing arsehole bingo.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

JimW said:


> Does Miliband chalk it up as a win if he doesn't fuck it up completely or piss himself?



I think I'm actually gonna have nightmares about his closing speech. So wooden, so patronising. I didn't hear a word the man said, I just prayed for it to end.


----------



## Coolfonz (Apr 2, 2015)

Taking a random guess having not watched it. Are they all cunts?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

YouGov results:

Sturgeon 28.1%
Farage 20.3%
Cameron 17.6%
Miliband 14.8%
Clegg 10.4%
Bennett 4.7%
Wood 4.2%
sample 1,1117


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> Diseased foreigners.
> We're full.
> Foreigners depressing wages.
> Bring back grammar schools.
> ...


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> We're the only ones who believe in Britain.



I love this one. Presumably everyone else thinks this is China in disguise or something.


----------



## kropotkin (Apr 2, 2015)

Sturgeon won,  clegg performed well,  Farage the least like an actor (but most like a pub bore)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Coolfonz said:


> Taking a random guess having not watched it. Are they all cunts?



Scots person and Welsh person both tolerable to good. Everyone I have a chance to vote for though, cunts


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> YouGov results:
> 
> Sturgeon 28.1%
> Farage 20.3%
> ...


Why does Wood come out so badly? She's kind of 'the left' along with Sturgeon in that debate eh. She didn't speak as well as Sturgeon, but she's surely better than Bennett?!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Clegg possibly the strongest of the main three, Miliband comfortably the worst.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Just seen the HIV comments on BBC - he's a dangerous cunt & make no mistake.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Why does Wood come out so badly? She's kind of 'the left' along with Sturgeon in that debate eh. She didn't speak as well as Sturgeon, but she's surely better than Bennett?!



Welshness?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> I learned cookery at school. Didn't everyone?



There was a weird boys/girls split on a Thursday afternoon in the first year of my secondary school. Boys went to technical drawing and woodwork, and the girls went to home economics, and then it was swapped around for the next term, and after that everyone did a health class (mostly) together. Obviously it was a sex education thing, and it was done very well, in retrospect. A school where the kids live on or near farms has a different perspective than others I guess, at least back then. My family moved from the sticks up to the central belt of Scotland the next year, and that school only touched on sex education in fourth year, and that needed signed permission from parents to attend those classes.

/not relevant really


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Strugeron+miliand = 43%
Clegg (cunt) and cameron = 28%


----------



## Belushi (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Why does Wood come out so badly? She's kind of 'the left' along with Sturgeon in that debate eh. She didn't speak as well as Sturgeon, but she's surely better than Bennett?!



She was completely focused on Wales.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Welshness?


Sturgeon is Scottish? Both wc women interestingly.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> She was completely focused on Wales.


yeah maybe that.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

Well at least gender wise it was almost representative.


----------



## JimW (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Why does Wood come out so badly? She's kind of 'the left' along with Sturgeon in that debate eh. She didn't speak as well as Sturgeon, but she's surely better than Bennett?!


Suspect it is partly her more domestic focus (on Wales I mean)


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> She was completely focused on Wales.



Probably sensible from her point of view.


----------



## Coolfonz (Apr 2, 2015)

"it was a sex education thing, and it was done very well, in retrospect. A school where the kids live on or near farms has a different perspective than others I guess"


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Why does Wood come out so badly? She's kind of 'the left' along with Sturgeon in that debate eh. She didn't speak as well as Sturgeon, but she's surely better than Bennett?!


National pull vs wlesh pull. That simple.If she was stood there as Green leader she and the greens figure would be higher. Plus sturgeon nicked all her support.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> National pull vs wlesh pull. That simple.If she was stood there as Green leader she and the greens figure would be higher. Plus sturgeon nicked all her support.


yup


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

(ComRes): 

CAMERON - 21% 
FARAGE - 21% 
MILIBAND - 21% 
STURGEON - 20% 
CLEGG (cunt)- 9% 
BENNETT - 5% 
WOOD - 2%

ICM: 
MILIBAND - 25% 
CAMERON - 24% 
FARAGE - 19% 
STURGEON - 17% 
CLEGG (cunt) - 9% 
BENNETT - 3% 
WOOD - 2%


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> ... and that school only touched on sex education in fourth year, and that needed signed permission from parents to attend those classes.



Mental. So the kids who are least likely to be learning about this stuff from their parents are the ones who miss out in school? Mental.


----------



## kropotkin (Apr 2, 2015)

Butchers : how anyone could think milliband won that is beyond me


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 2, 2015)

Will Farage's HIV comments really damage his support? I mean, he came comfortably second in the YouGov poll 'despite' it. I sadly fear that there are many who would agree with his sentiment.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

kropotkin said:


> Butchers : how anyone could think milliband won that is beyond me


I think it was ICM who had cameron winning the C4 thing by some distance the other week as well.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Will Farage's HIV comments really damage his support? I mean, he came comfortably second in the YouGov poll 'despite' it. I sadly fear that there are many who would agree with his sentiment.



And we can ease pressure on housing and services by driving all those people into the sea.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Will Farage's HIV comments really damage his support? I mean, he came comfortably second in the YouGov poll 'despite' it. I sadly fear that there are many who would agree with his sentiment.


No they won't. They were tested comments i'm sure. Not a slip.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

lol why do you hate Clegg so much above Cameron or Miliband or Farage butchersapron


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> lol why do you hate Clegg so much above Cameron or Miliband or Farage butchersapron


'cos he's a cunt.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Seriously, just look/listen to the cunt.


----------



## toblerone3 (Apr 2, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> Scotland wins then, yeah?



Is the next government of the UK going to be Scottish Nationalist?


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> 'cos he's a cunt.


more so than Cameron? I wouldn't say. More than Farage? I mean I don't mind Farage myself but _you_ hate Clegg more?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> more so than Cameron? I wouldn't say. More than Farage? I mean I don't mind Farage myself but _you_ hate Clegg more?


Yeah.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Yeah.


Fair enough.


----------



## toblerone3 (Apr 2, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> blamed the problems of the NHS on foreigners with HIV.



Was it good AIDS or bad AIDS?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> No they won't. They were tested comments i'm sure. Not a slip.


Well, there y'go.

My Facebook feed has a few comments along the lines of "ha, he's just proved himself a fascist/racist!". Every time someone uses that as an argument against him I just cringe - we all know what he is, people voting for him either don't believe you or don't care. You've got to attack him/UKIP along other lines, and surely there are plenty of options on that front.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Mental. So the kids who are least likely to be learning about this stuff from their parents are the ones who miss out in school? Mental.



Yup. This was all in the early 1980s though, I'm sure it's better now.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

toblerone3 said:


> Was it good AIDS or bad AIDS?



Foreigners so definitely bad AIDS.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> No they won't. They were tested comments i'm sure. Not a slip.


that ITV "floating voters" lot seemed to love him hectoring Leanne Wood about it.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> that ITV "floating voters" lot seemed to love him hectoring Leanne Wood about it.


I genuinely didn't see that bit, i was offline for 15-20 minutes. But that would back it up. He's there to do a job - chip away at the social conservative part of the labour/tory vote and firm up the existing vote. He wasn't there to win over U75 types.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 2, 2015)

Coolfonz said:


> "it was a sex education thing, and it was done very well, in retrospect. A school where the kids live on or near farms has a different perspective than others I guess"



Our school bus picked us up at a bus stop next to a field where a stallion could be regularly observed servicing a mare. The school's really gonna have to explain that sort of behaviour


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm sure it was rehearsed and calculated and checked with all the PR gurus in advance, but that doesn't make it any less despicable a thing to say.

e2a: Farage and his AIDS tourists that is.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I genuinely didn't see that bit, i was offline for 15-20 minutes. But that would back it up. He's there to do a job - chip away at the social conservative part of the labour/tory vote and firm up the existing vote. He wasn't there to win over U75 types.



You reckon anti-HIV prejudice plays a part in it? Otherwise you can think of less sympathetic groups of immigrants to attack...


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> You reckon anti-HIV prejudice plays a part in it? Otherwise you can think of less sympathetic groups of immigrants to attack...


I reckon saying things you aren't _supposed to say _plays a part in it. The exact content of what you're saying isn't always key - as long as it's in the immigrants/wasted money/waste of time ballpark.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> You reckon anti-HIV prejudice plays a part in it? Otherwise you can think of less sympathetic groups of immigrants to attack...



But with HIV you get a free implied dig at homosexuals into the bargain. Everyone's a winner.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 2, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> You reckon anti-HIV prejudice plays a part in it? Otherwise you can think of less sympathetic groups of immigrants to attack...


That's a good point. Can be pretty sure he wouldn't have used cancer patients.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 2, 2015)

Avg of ComRes, ICM & YGov polls: Sturgeon—21.7 Cameron—21.0 Miliband—20.3 Farage—20.0 Clegg—9.3 Bennett—4.3 Wood—2.7


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I reckon saying things you aren't _supposed to say _plays a part in it. The exact content of what you're saying isn't always key - as long as it's in the immigrants/wasted money/waste of time ballpark.


totally this. It's an effective strategy when one of your strongest selling points is _the rest of these cunts are disingenuous and out of touch but I'll say what I think. Shake it up._


----------



## weltweit (Apr 2, 2015)

Anyone know the viewing figures for that?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Anyone know the viewing figures for that?



Went down a lot towards the end because of all those suicides.


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> I reckon saying things you aren't _supposed to say _plays a part in it. The exact content of what you're saying isn't always key - as long as it's in the immigrants/wasted money/waste of time ballpark.



Yeah. You could see that as he was about to start saying the HIV stuff (and the e Europeans stuff)  - the "look at daring to say stuff the others are afraid to" schtick.


----------



## toblerone3 (Apr 2, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> You reckon anti-HIV prejudice plays a part in it? Otherwise you can think of less sympathetic groups of immigrants to attack...



Which ones in particular would you think of?


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 2, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> That's a good point. Can be pretty sure he wouldn't have used cancer patients.



Farage used his scrape with cancer to put the boot into the NHS the pudding!


----------



## weepiper (Apr 2, 2015)

Wonder if the Tories are going to keep the 'Vote Labour, get SNP' line up after tonight.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Yeah. You could see that as he was about to start saying the HIV stuff (and the e Europeans stuff)  - the "look at daring to say stuff the others are afraid to" schtick.


I think it's good he says all that stuff. Important. Get it out in the open. Air it.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 2, 2015)

grauniad reporting that miliband won the debate.


----------



## Nancy_Winks (Apr 2, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> grauniad reporting that miliband won the debate.


What?????????


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2015)

I'm finding it hard to believe people thought Ed did well. His staring into the camera made him look scary. He seemed to struggle at several points, and he even managed to come off worse in an exchange with Clegg, ffs. 

Cameron also often seemed shaky outside his set pieces, and seemed to be flagging towards the end.


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

I've only been watching this 1987 Q&A between Thatcher and the audience for 3 and a half minutes but it's already proving to be far more interesting and edgy.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 2, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> grauniad reporting that miliband won the debate.



"In a poll of Guardian journalists" ?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> grauniad reporting that miliband won the debate.



Fucking newspapers 

And the telegraph will say Cameron won. Plus ca fucking change


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> What?????????


That's the ICM one i posted up earlier.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> "In a poll of Guardian journalists" ?



I'd be surprised if Ed Miliband could win a poll of his own children tbh.


----------



## Coolfonz (Apr 2, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> "In a poll of Guardian cunts" ?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Apr 2, 2015)

Only had it on because I'm too sick to go out for a drink, thought if I put it on TV, my other half wouldn't just stay in out of sympathy. It worked, she could only stand 2 minutes and she was out.  Only half paid attention (I must not throw things at the TV set)

Still think there is very little difference between conservatives/ lib dems/ labour all of them said '_reduce the deficit_' far too often for my liking. In the last election I could tell which was which if they didn't wear the right colour tie - all same age and same accent, tall, slim, white men in identical suits.

I liked that there were so many women in the debate - but I can't recall much they said. 

They all sounded very similar - except Farrage who looked like a toad and sounded like a pratt.

No winners for me.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 2, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Wonder if the Tories are going to keep the 'Vote Labour, get SNP' line up after tonight.


Given the polling I'm not sure that'd be a blow against Labour!

Or was that your point?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 2, 2015)

DexterTCN said:


> grauniad reporting that miliband won the debate.


Their associate editor disagrees:


----------



## chilango (Apr 2, 2015)

Johnny Tudor on Radio 5,  reckoned Cameron won....


----------



## weepiper (Apr 2, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Given the polling I'm not sure that'd be a blow against Labour!
> 
> Or was that your point?



That was my point  they're relying on English voters disliking the SNP.


----------



## elbows (Apr 2, 2015)

Turns out that Thatcher video features her saying that criminals who do terrible things to children have forfeited their own right to life (around 7:40). Tough words betrayed by what we know about what she knew about some of her associates.


----------



## FiFi (Apr 2, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Wonder if the Tories are going to keep the 'Vote Labour, get SNP' line up after tonight.


Yes, because some of us would think that's a good thing!


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Johnny Tudor on Radio 5,  reckoned Cameron won....


I thought BBC Six would have been the favs to snap him up.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 2, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Their associate editor disagrees:



As would anyone who watched (some of) it.


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 2, 2015)

Mrs. Sprocket says we should move to Ireland!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

chilango said:


> Johnny Tudor on Radio 5,  reckoned Cameron won....


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> Mrs. Sprocket says we should move to Ireland!



Scotland lad!


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

problem all other parties have with Farage is that stuff about immigration being uncontrollable inside the EU. It's true and they've got no argument for it.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 2, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> problem all other parties have with Farage is that stuff about immigration being uncontrollable inside the EU. It's true and they've got no argument for it.


Surely "immigration isn't actually the root of all problems" would be a good start? Wouldn't win over those who just hate non-Brits/whites, but a reasoned argument might convince those who have been conned by good rhetoric and lazy thinking.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Surely "immigration isn't actually the root of all problems" would be a good start? Wouldn't win over those who just hate non-Brits/whites, but a reasoned argument might convince those who have been conned by good rhetoric and lazy thinking.


White hate vote not that large - but what could there reasoned argument be against the claim that EU immigration is now all to do with what the EU decides? You can't say it's not true and you can't (politically) say this is a good thing.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 2, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Surely "immigration isn't actually the root of all problems" would be a good start?



Nicola Sturgeon (I think it was) said as much.

Another good point that doesn't get made: if you don't like it here because there's too many immigrants then there's two dozen other countries you can fuck off to right on your doorstep.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> Surely "immigration isn't actually the root of all problems" would be a good start? Wouldn't win over those who just hate non-Brits/whites, but a reasoned argument might convince those who have been conned by good rhetoric and lazy thinking.


They'd have to admit it was true to move on to that argument though, wouldn't they?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> what could there reasoned argument be against the claim that EU immigration is now all to do with what the EU decides? You can't say it's not true and *you can't (politically) say this is a good thing.*


I suppose that's the big issue.

Could it at least not be argued that it's not _bad_?


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 2, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Nicola Sturgeon (I think it was) said as much.


Fair enough, as I say I didn't watch the debate because I didn't think it would be good for me.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> I suppose that's the big issue.
> 
> Could it at least not be argued that it's not _bad_?


Not without a big political cost- and that's all they care about. Who of the big ones is going to say _yes, we have no control over most immigration and that's a good thing?_Other people can say it, politicians - with serious hope of office? No chance.


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 2, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Not without a big political cost- at that's all they care about. Who of the big ones is going to say yes, we have no control over most immigration and that's a good thing. Other people can say it, politicians - with serious hope of office? No chance.


And this is why I didn't watch the debates


----------



## Wilf (Apr 2, 2015)

Just got in after a 3 hour drive so didn't see any of it and the only analysis I've seen is the last couple of pages on here. Anyway, what comes out of that of any significance at all?  Slight firming up of the snp against Labour in Scotland?  No real success for farage in re-establishing himself as the anti-politician politician?  Anything else?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 2, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Just got in after a 3 hour drive so didn't see any of it and the only analysis I've seen is the last couple of pages on here. Anyway, what comes out of that of any significance at all?  Slight firming up of the snp against Labour in Scotland?  No real success for farage in re-establishing himself as the anti-politician politician?  Anything else?



They're all cunts, but Sturgeon's ok.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Wilf said:


> Just got in after a 3 hour drive so didn't see any of it and the only analysis I've seen is the last couple of pages on here. Anyway, what comes out of that of any significance at all?  Slight firming up of the snp against Labour in Scotland?  No real success for farage in re-establishing himself as the anti-politician politician?  Anything else?


Only a few things - Sturgeon destroying the tories snp focused scaremongering. Farage def firmed up his vote. Nothing much else. Wood will, i think, have done well in ex-labour wales - but that was happening already. Nothing much else really - nothing major anyway. Miliband continued the good run of normalistion - yet again he and cameron are neck and neck as leaders etc back from the massive gap before people had a closer look at him.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

and a final poll:

Survation/Mirror (winner): 
 DC 25 
EM 25 
NF 24
NS 15
NC 6  
NB 3  
LW 2


----------



## rekil (Apr 2, 2015)

A new addition to the enemy of the people list.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 2, 2015)

One of the more interesting things about tonight's debate was that the PC/Green/SNP presence meant that ,at least in rhetoric, there was more anti cuts/ austerity comment than I have ever heard say on question time.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 2, 2015)

copliker said:


> A new addition to the enemy of the people list.
> 
> View attachment 69629


Used to have a bit if a crush on her years ago


----------



## weepiper (Apr 2, 2015)

SNP reporting on twitter they've had 1500 requests to join since the start of the debate.


----------



## oryx (Apr 2, 2015)

copliker said:


> A new addition to the enemy of the people list.
> 
> View attachment 69629


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 2, 2015)

weepiper said:


> SNP reporting on twitter they've had 1500 requests to join since the start of the debate.


Probably most from England


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 2, 2015)

Lord Camomile said:


> And this is why I didn't watch the debates


Wait til they hear how migration is a permanent feature of capitalism, primarily driven by economic forces and essentially uncontrollable, they'll all lose their shit.


----------



## Johnny Vodka (Apr 2, 2015)

Was drug law reform discussed?


----------



## Coolfonz (Apr 2, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> They're all cunts.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 2, 2015)

Here


----------



## rekil (Apr 2, 2015)

Spoiler







Chapeau.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 2, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> Used to have a bit if a crush on her years ago


I worked with her for a week, my dad kept asking me to get her autograph or invite her round. Very strange.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 2, 2015)

she's lovely by the way


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 2, 2015)

Johnny Vodka said:


> Was drug law reform discussed?


No, apparently that and reforms of laws to stop foxes sneaking into houses and attacking children narrowly failed to get on the question sheet


----------



## FiFi (Apr 2, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> she's lovely by the way


But obviously a bit thick


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 2, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> she's lovely by the way


Never judge a book by its cover


----------



## rekil (Apr 2, 2015)

LibDems have a Posadist current?


----------



## Zapp Brannigan (Apr 2, 2015)

Fuck this shower of shite, I'm off to Scotland.  See you all there.


----------



## The39thStep (Apr 2, 2015)

This is interesting


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 3, 2015)

From Newsthump:



> When blaming immigrants for putting a strain on the NHS make sure you're drinking a pint and smoking a fag. ‪#‎leadersdebate‬


----------



## DrRingDing (Apr 3, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> From Newsthump:



I thought you'd be one of those dullard trots that like newsthump.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 3, 2015)

The39thStep said:


> This is interesting
> View attachment 69633




Idly wondering _exactly_ what the polling base is for those questions ....


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 3, 2015)

Managed because of pub to avoid the whole debate, but thanks for the summary, everybody


----------



## coltrane (Apr 3, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> I think I'm actually gonna have nightmares about his closing speech. So wooden, so patronising. I didn't hear a word the man said, I just prayed for it to end.



In his one minute "Vote for Me" pitch at the end Milliband came across as totally insincere. Like a really useless salesman that couldn't even muster up fake belief in the product that they are trying to flog.


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 3, 2015)

Award for most delusional reading of the debate goes to:



> A debate cunningly devised as a car crash by Team Cameron turned out to be usefully revealing of them all. And not to Cameron’s advantage. With a battery against him, stripped of advantage, he looked unsettled by this level playing field. Was using the tragedy of his son’s short life a good defence of the NHS or do people wince? Is attacking the Welsh on the NHS good politics? Faced with voices from Scotland and Wales, does he rule for them or just for his home counties?
> 
> Nick Clegg’s pose as honest broker was a grating reprise of last time – and it felt bust. Against bookies’ odds, Farage was the heavy loser, badly misjudging this forum as his poison on HIV and foreigners put him back in the BNP coffin: he may have lost respectable support.
> 
> Nicola Sturgeon was stellar, as ever: Leanne Wood good. Natalie Bennett was as amateurish as usual, but that won’t worry Greens. Again, the gainer was Ed Miliband – firm, calm, confident on pay, cuts, the NHS and the EU. What irony that Tory attacks on his weakness rebound to his advantage at every outing: any sign of authority comes as a bonus.



Guess who?


----------



## Sue (Apr 3, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> Award for most delusional reading of the debate goes to:
> 
> 
> 
> Guess who?


butchersapron..?


----------



## ska invita (Apr 3, 2015)

Labour faithfullness sounds like Polly Frisbee


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 3, 2015)

ska invita said:


> Labour faithfullness sounds like Polly Frisbee


DING DING


----------



## ska invita (Apr 3, 2015)

sigh


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 3, 2015)

DrRingDing said:


> I thought you'd be one of those dullard trots that like newsthump.



Call me a trot to my face some day. Provided you have no further use for your own that is


----------



## DrRingDing (Apr 3, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Call me a trot to my face some day. Provided you have no further use for your own that is



A middle class tough talking trot? Terrifying.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Apr 3, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Not without a big political cost- and that's all they care about. Who of the big ones is going to say _yes, we have no control over most immigration and that's a good thing?_Other people can say it, politicians - with serious hope of office? No chance.


I think you're right about this. But it's interesting to me the change. Even just 20 years ago, saying that the free movement of people within Europe is a good thing was a respectable mainstream right-wing and left-wing position. It strikes me as a collective loss of nerve to draw back on that. They've been trapped by their own lies into a position that none of them wants to be in - labour, tory and libdem leaderships, that is. The alternative is impossible, as it is to admit to their own active participation in the neoliberalisation of Britain.


----------



## belboid (Apr 3, 2015)

the heckler - does a pretty good job


----------



## PursuedByBears (Apr 3, 2015)

lizzieloo said:


> I've decided I'm gonna vote SNP with my marker pen


This seems the best option by far.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

PursuedByBears said:


> This seems the best option by far.


spunking cock also doing well in the urban polls.


----------



## andysays (Apr 3, 2015)

So is it worth watching this this if/when it apears on iPlayer, or would I be better just reading the thread for a flavour?


----------



## Lo Siento. (Apr 3, 2015)

andysays said:


> So is it worth watching this this if/when it apears on iPlayer, or would I be better just reading the thread for a flavour?


just read the thread, I reckon.


----------



## youngian (Apr 3, 2015)

Sturgeon- Very good assured performance 
Wood, Bennett- Held up well but short on detail
Cameron, Miliband- so-so delivery that just kept their heads above water
Clegg- Barely holding it together
Farage- weapons grade cunt


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

youngian said:


> Farage- weapons grade cunt


of the stone ax variety?


----------



## andysays (Apr 3, 2015)

Lo Siento. said:


> just read the thread, I reckon.



not on iPlayer yet anyway, so that decides it for me


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 3, 2015)

It wasn't on the bbc


----------



## andysays (Apr 3, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> It wasn't on the bbc



It was shown live on the BBC News channel, and they're currently saying 



> This programme will be available shortly after broadcast


----------



## weltweit (Apr 3, 2015)

7 million viewers watched live


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

weltweit said:


> 7 million viewers watched live


that's because it's not often you see seven politicians mass debating live on tv: it was for the novelty value more than anything else.

calls for mind bleach have been received by the emergency services up and down the land.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 3, 2015)

andysays said:


> So is it worth watching this this if/when it apears on iPlayer, or would I be better just reading the thread for a flavour?



I'd stick with the thread, it was really just two hours of meh


----------



## brogdale (Apr 3, 2015)

Etchingham 10 : Burley 0


----------



## J Ed (Apr 3, 2015)

I wonder if Farage's HIV comment actually went a bit far even for some committed UKIP supporters, let alone potential supporters.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I wonder if Farage's HIV comment actually went a bit far even for some committed UKIP supporters, let alone potential supporters.


all ukip supporters should be committed.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 3, 2015)




----------



## weltweit (Apr 3, 2015)

Scottish, Welsh and national parties but no Northern Irish leaders.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Scottish, Welsh and national parties but no Northern Irish leaders.


well spotted 

incidentally, no party now in parliament espouses independence for the six counties.


----------



## Wilf (Apr 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> well spotted
> 
> incidentally, no party now in parliament espouses independence for the six counties.


If Falange gets in, he'll claim to be favour of independence for the 86 counties. 

p.s. boom and/or tish.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Apr 3, 2015)

J Ed said:


> I wonder if Farage's HIV comment actually went a bit far even for some committed UKIP supporters, let alone potential supporters.



That and his shock at "former communist countries":


----------



## belboid (Apr 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> incidentally, no party now in parliament espouses independence for the six counties.


has anyone ever supported 'independence for the six counties'?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

belboid said:


> has anyone ever supported 'independence for the six counties'?


the nf did for a spell


----------



## belboid (Apr 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> the nf did for a spell


really?  Their political acumen truly knew no bounds


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 3, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> That and his shock at "former communist countries":


----------



## treelover (Apr 3, 2015)

Vote for Me!, by Sarah Sordid.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 3, 2015)

> Scottish National Party (SNP) leader Nicola Sturgeon has advised English voters to back the Green Party - or their local Labour candidate if they are "progressive" and prepared to challenge the party leadership.


 http://www.thecourier.co.uk/news/po...s-english-voters-to-back-green-party-1.851923


----------



## FiFi (Apr 3, 2015)

Fozzie Bear said:


> That and his shock at "former communist countries":


Please tell me this is a spoof. 
I can't tell anymore!


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)




----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 3, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> The foreign aid budget is really not the soft target Nigel thinks it is.



It *is* a "soft target", but it's also one Farage might regret going after when the effects of cutting it rebound on British business interests in the countries that lose out.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> It *is* a "soft target", but it's also one Farage might regret going after when the effects of cutting it rebound on British business interests in the countries that lose out.


hold your horses - he has to get his shitty little hands on the reins of power before he can do something like that he'd later regret.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 3, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Shame on Labour for introducing pfi. Honestly shame on them.



Not quite accurate. PFI started with Major's government, way back in '92/93, when Milispud was still at Uni.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> hold your horses - he has to get his shitty little hands on the reins of power before he can do something like that he'd later regret.



The deal's already done.


----------



## belboid (Apr 3, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> It *is* a "soft target", but it's also one Farage might regret going after when the effects of cutting it rebound on British business interests in the countries that lose out.


Dont be daft!  Nothing has any consequences whatsoever. Just like leaving the EU, £10billion saved, and there would be no costs whatsoever, no import restrictions or tariffs or anything at all. Of course Sturgeon used the same analytical method when talking about Scotland keeping the pound in the event of independence.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 3, 2015)

All these pledges which can be quickly negotiated away come coalition time, it does not engender trust really.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> The deal's already done.


i don't doubt a deal's been done but i expect that it's contingent on ukip and the tories being in a position to enter a coalition.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 3, 2015)

lizzieloo said:


> I don't like it when Milliband looks at me



Looks to me like he's doing a memory trick, which can involve seeming to be gazing off into the middle distance while you scurry through your memory palace, retrieving relevant data.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> Looks to me like he's doing a memory trick, which can involve seeming to be gazing off into the middle distance while you scurry through your memory palace, retrieving relevant data.








only mr data likes humans.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 3, 2015)

peterkro said:


> Capstan full strength were the real deal. My Auntie smoked them for decades and along with the Vodka in the teapot she died quietly in her sleep at 75.



My grandad smoked Woodbines, but always tore the filter off. Old sod was still on 40 and a half-bottle of Napoleon a day when he snuffed it at 88.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 3, 2015)

At one point Millipede was talking straight into the camera and couldn't help a little smirk cross his features as if he was thinking, look mum I am on the tellybox! He was the only one to do that and I don't think it worked for him.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> My grandad smoked Woodbines, but always tore the filter off. Old sod was still on 40 and a half-bottle of Napoleon a day when he snuffed it at 88.


when last i smoked woodbines there wasn't a filter on them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

weltweit said:


> At one point Millipede was talking straight into the camera and couldn't help a little smirk cross his features as if he was thinking, look mum I am on the tellybox! He was the only one to do that and I don't think it worked for him.


what might have worked better was his pulling out a small pistol - perhaps a 'saturday night special' - and shooting cameron, clegg and farage before turning the gun on himself.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> when last i smoked woodbines there wasn't a filter on them.



Yep, deffo filterless snouts - my auld nan smoked 'em for 30 years.


----------



## peterkro (Apr 3, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> My grandad smoked Woodbines, but always tore the filter off. Old sod was still on 40 and a half-bottle of Napoleon a day when he snuffed it at 88.


Woodbines with filters were introduced in 1948.The "gaspers" were mainly pre war although you did get a choice.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capstan_(cigarette)


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> when last i smoked woodbines there wasn't a filter on them.



You never smoked Woodbines you bastard, you're a Frenchman.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't doubt a deal's been done but i expect that it's contingent on ukip and the tories being in a position to enter a coalition.



You misunderstand.
The deal has already been done, and brother Farage has already been promised the Prime Ministerial position by the Grand Illuminated Master of the Jew/Lizard cabal.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> when last i smoked woodbines there wasn't a filter on them.



Well, whatever they were, they were strong and stinky, and I say that as a Marlboro smoker at the time.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 3, 2015)

Sturgeon 'mobbed' in Scotland today after the debate performance. 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...rgeon-snp-supporters-edinburgh-leaders-debate

I presume she didn't do well in the general polls on how well each leader did because most of the people voting were English? I didn't see the debate, what was she saying that urban approved of so heartily and left English voters relatively unmoved?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 3, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Sturgeon 'mobbed' in Scotland today after the debate performance.
> 
> http://www.theguardian.com/politics...rgeon-snp-supporters-edinburgh-leaders-debate
> 
> I presume she didn't do well in the general polls on how well each leader did because most of the people voting were English? I didn't see the debate, what was she saying that urban approved of so heartily and left English voters relatively unmoved?


She did very well in the general polls - the only one to have agreement that she won/did very well outside of each parties supporters.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 3, 2015)

3 small but telling things for me regarding that prick last night:

- "Canny Scots" - I really wouldn't be surprised if he thinks Jewish folk are "shrewd" as well.

- The little chuckle to himself after saying "it's true isn't it?" when Wood correctly slapped him down (she is so remarkable, he's not fit to lick her boots but I wish I could). He enjoys blaming people with AIDS for stuff. His self enamourment is gargantuan. Different planet from the others in that respect.

- Signing off with bluster about "political correctness". There is nothing at all refreshing about this bloke. He is the least refreshing.

The other blokes did actually have some new-ish and subtle calibrations, even if they were generally dull. The women made solid anti austerity points. NF just slops out something that could have been in the Daily Mail 25 years ago. That's deliberate, it's the market. It's risible and moribund.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 3, 2015)

Lovely story on Griffin having a swipe at Sturgeon and SNP. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/p...ed-effect-on-scottish-followers-10154140.html

They give the tweet itself: 

The comments are precious, starting off from the "suave as fuck"


----------



## chilango (Apr 3, 2015)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> (she is so remarkable, he's not fit to lick her boots but I wish I could)





Did you mean to say that?


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 3, 2015)

chilango said:


> Did you mean to say that?



Listening to this, I don't see how leftie who is attracted to females couldn't have a thing for her.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05nk3gm


----------



## weepiper (Apr 3, 2015)

Oh _God_ are we actually doing this


----------



## belboid (Apr 3, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Oh _God_ are we actually doing this


'We' aren't...


----------



## Celyn (Apr 3, 2015)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Listening to this, I don't see how leftie who is attracted to females couldn't have a thing for her.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05nk3gm



I don't care how attractive she is or isn't, I listened to a little bit and now I want to go back to Wales. Or the bloody moon, really, if it had Welsh accents on it.  Oh well.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 3, 2015)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Listening to this, I don't see how leftie who is attracted to females couldn't have a thing for her.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05nk3gm



Why do you do this shit, fuck off.


----------



## editor (Apr 3, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Pretty funny Twitter poll in the Torygraph. SNP by a mile, Greens and Plaid neck and neck for a distant second. Cameron last ...
> 
> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gen...ebates-Who-does-Twitter-think-is-winning.html


To save a Torygraphclick: 

 

I really like Leanne Wood. I wish I could vote for her in Llambeth, Llundain.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Listening to this, I don't see how leftie who is attracted to females couldn't have a thing for her.
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b05nk3gm


e2a apols misread


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 3, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> e2a apols misread



no problem, how did you misread tho?


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 3, 2015)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> no problem, how did you misread tho?


i just missed two letters which unfortunately happened to be the two which undermined my point.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 3, 2015)

was interesting to see how much airtime was given over to this 'debate' on News At 10 last night... pretty much most of the news, including an extended copy of googlebox to show how 'real voters' were reacting to the whole thing.

Never mind a massacre in Kenya and an Iranian Nuke deal which got a passing mention


----------



## youngian (Apr 4, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> incidentally, no party now in parliament espouses independence for the six counties.


I'm no expert on the political strategy of Sinn Fein MPs but this is not a surprise


----------



## 8ball (Apr 4, 2015)

At home with the folks at the mo.

My old man is right of UKIP by a mile but even he said 'the young Scottish lady spoke well' which I thought was interesting.  Also interesting that he didn't think Farage up to much.

I think this little shindig played well for the smaller parties.


----------



## rekil (Apr 4, 2015)

Who made up that Sturgeon and French ambassador story. Was it articul8? I expect to be shocked by the cost and frequency of her hairdressing appointments or something soon.


----------



## Idris2002 (Apr 4, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> the nf did for a spell


In the 1950s the Stormont regime flirted with the idea of dominion status. 

I think elements of the UDA were also attracted to independence for "Ulster" in the 1970s.


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 4, 2015)

copliker said:


> Who made up that Sturgeon and French ambassador story. Was it articul8? I expect to be shocked by the cost and frequency of her hairdressing appointments or something soon.


Whoever made it up, it's the 2015 version of the Zinoviev Letter.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 4, 2015)

copliker said:


> Who made up that Sturgeon and French ambassador story. Was it articul8? I expect to be shocked by the cost and frequency of her hairdressing appointments or something soon.



Telegraph seems to publish a lot of outright disinformation lately. There was a bunch of Greece stuff the other day too.


----------



## Belushi (Apr 4, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> I think elements of the UDA were also attracted to independence for "Ulster" in the 1970s.



Weren't they planning on a bit of ethnic cleansing and a redrawing of the borders as part of that?


----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 4, 2015)

Let's not forget the fake Galloway story either.


----------



## chilango (Apr 4, 2015)

Idris2002 said:


> In the 1950s the Stormont regime flirted with the idea of dominion status.
> 
> I think elements of the UDA were also attracted to independence for "Ulster" in the 1970s.



I liked reading that they were inspired by Rhodesia and its UDI.


----------



## weepiper (Apr 4, 2015)

copliker said:


> Who made up that Sturgeon and French ambassador story. Was it articul8? I expect to be shocked by the cost and frequency of her hairdressing appointments or something soon.


Did you see the coffee machine story the other day?

https://commonspace.scot/articles/8...fee-machine-story-after-social-media-ridicule


----------



## rekil (Apr 4, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Did you see the coffee machine story the other day?
> 
> https://commonspace.scot/articles/8...fee-machine-story-after-social-media-ridicule


ffs


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 4, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Did you see the coffee machine story the other day?
> 
> https://commonspace.scot/articles/8...fee-machine-story-after-social-media-ridicule



Are they still a Labour paper?


----------



## weepiper (Apr 4, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Are they still a Labour paper?


through and through.


----------



## weepiper (Apr 4, 2015)

Scottish Labour are still running with the ambassador story


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 4, 2015)

nice to see the veneer of press ethics whipped away in election month


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 4, 2015)

i would prefer cameron stays in downing st, under the patio in the back garden


----------



## Belushi (Apr 4, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> i would prefer cameron stays in downing st, under the patio in the back garden



Next to the cat Cherie Blair had killed :thumbs :


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 4, 2015)

Belushi said:


> Next to the cat Cherie Blair had killed :thumbs :



 

(((((cat)))))


----------



## Bernie Gunther (Apr 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> nice to see the veneer of press ethics whipped away in election month


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Apr 4, 2015)

youngian said:


> I'm no expert on the political strategy of Sinn Fein MPs but this is not a surprise


they're not actually in parliament though. 

People on here's reaction to the coffee machine story is as funny as the Daily Record's reporting of it - if it was a Labour or Green MP who had such a thing I don't think people here would be mocking the story but St Nicola of the Souter National Party seems different for some reason.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 4, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> they're not actually in parliament though.
> 
> People on here's reaction to the coffee machine story is as funny as the Daily Record's reporting of it - if it was a Labour or Green MP who had such a thing I don't think people here would be mocking the story but St Nicola of the Souter National Party seems different for some reason.



Look at the thread about Miliband's two kitchens, you might be surprised.


----------



## chilango (Apr 4, 2015)

Spanky Longhorn said:


> they're not actually in parliament though.
> 
> People on here's reaction to the coffee machine story is as funny as the Daily Record's reporting of it - if it was a Labour or Green MP who had such a thing I don't think people here would be mocking the story but St Nicola of the Souter National Party seems different for some reason.



I dunno, I think coffee machines are one of those things that it's okay to spend a lot of money on (or aspire to).

*strokes own slightly smaller deLonghi machine fondly*


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 4, 2015)

nobody really needs more than a cafetiere imo


----------



## chilango (Apr 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> nobody really needs more than a cafetiere imo



Fuck off 

Get yetself on the coffee ladder with some sort of first time buyers machine - a simple single cup espresso job or something.

Or if that's beyond your means, you can use an aero press whilst you save enough capital for an initial investment machine.


----------



## FiFi (Apr 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> nobody really needs more than a cafetiere imo


I was considering buying a coffee machine with an Argos voucher I got for Xmas. 
Now I feel sullied and ashamed


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

copliker said:


> Who made up that Sturgeon and French ambassador story. Was it articul8? I expect to be shocked by the cost and frequency of her hairdressing appointments or something soon.


You can tell that they've noticed her now.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Look at the thread about Miliband's two kitchens, you might be surprised.


Id love a fancy coffee machine. If I win a sizeable amount in the lottery tonight, it's definitely on my list. An extra kitchen, though? Not so much.


----------



## rekil (Apr 4, 2015)

I got given a coffee machine, but it's in the shed. How's _that_ for unbridled decadence. 

I recall that the mail ran a story about Clare Daly, socialist firebrand etc, going to a restaurant that had a €25 lunch menu.


----------



## chilango (Apr 4, 2015)

I like Nick Griffin's kitchen. Does he have an Aga?


----------



## Sue (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> You can tell that they've noticed her now.


 
You are so cynical.  Sure it was all a complete coincidence this coming a couple of days after the leaders debate.

How's it playing up there? Not very well I'd have thought.


----------



## Limerick Red (Apr 4, 2015)

belboid said:


> has anyone ever supported 'independence for the six counties'?


The Ulster third way, loyalists who started learning Gaelic  , mixed in with some theory about Them being the lost tribe of Israel !


----------



## andysays (Apr 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> nobody really needs more than a cafetiere imo



If I can't have at least a Bialetti stove top it's not my revolution


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> You can tell that they've noticed her now.



The tory post-debate, spin strategy of talking-up Sturgeon's debate performance was surprisingly crude, unsophisticated politics (even by the standards of the vermin). Yeah, sure on one level it's an obvious Machiavellian tactic but, truth be told, they really needed to focus their attention on those parties that might damage Lab in the marginals where the actual electoral battle will be fought. I think they missed a trick not to big up the Greens and, to some extent Clegg's articulation of "progressive" ideals. Miliband's destruction in Scotland is already assured; that should be a given for the vermin.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

Sue said:


> You are so cynical.  Sure it was all a complete coincidence this coming a couple of days after the leaders debate.
> 
> How's it playing up there? Not very well I'd have thought.


I'm in the Staffs area for the long weekend. So I'm not sure. I've seen the English edition of the Daily Mail, though. Apparently Sturgeon is the most dangerous woman in Britain. 

One more favourable headline like that and I'll be voting SNP.


----------



## weltweit (Apr 4, 2015)

The most logical and commanding coalition would be between Labour and the Tories! They are similar in many policies, both believe in austerity and cutting the deficit, their most significant difference is only in the red and blue colours they hitch their flags to!

No chance of that though, this time at least.


----------



## Sue (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I'm in the Staffs area for the long weekend. So I'm not sure. I've seen the English edition of the Daily Mail, though. Apparently Sturgeon is the most dangerous woman in Britain.
> 
> One more favourable headline like that and I'll be voting SNP.


 
I suspect the Scottish DM is probably saying something slightly different.

ETA And as if by magic...

'So the Daily Mail edited in London runs a front page today calling the SNP leader Nicola Sturgeon the “most dangerous woman in Britain” following her performance in the televised leaders’ debate.
But the Mail, despite its antipathy towards the SNP (and much vaunted advocacy of press freedom), didn’t feel confident enough to go with that in Scotland. Instead, the front page headline of the paper edited in Glasgow says: “Nicola: I want Tories to win”.'

http://www.theguardian.com/media/gr...-success-exposes-the-so-called-national-press

Not a fan of Greenslade (and his sneery dismissal of NS's denial is ) but maybe interesting to some on here the way things are presented in the English/Scottish editions of the same papers.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

Sue said:


> I suspect the Scottish DM is probably saying something slightly different.


Just checked - they're running the French Ambassador story. 

Now why would they do that? It's almost as if they know they have a different audience and the left scare wouldn't play well in Scotland and the Tory scare wouldn't play well in Middle England. 

Baffled.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

weltweit said:


> The most logical and commanding coalition would be between Labour and the Tories! They are similar in many policies, both believe in austerity and cutting the deficit, their most significant difference is only in the red and blue colours they hitch their flags to!
> 
> No chance of that though, this time at least.


You're showing promise, lad.


----------



## Sue (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Just checked - they're running the French Ambassador story.
> 
> Now why would they do that? It's almost as if they know they have a different audience and the left scare wouldn't play well in Scotland and the Tory scare wouldn't play well in Middle England.
> 
> Baffled.


 
Just edited my previous.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

Sue said:


> I suspect the Scottish DM is probably saying something slightly different.
> 
> ETA And as if by magic...
> 
> ...


Thing is that both parties say the report is untrue. So I'm inclined to believe the Telegraph is trying to scupper the SNP. Why? Save the Union? Stop the SNP being a force in the negotiations? Probably both of those.


----------



## youngian (Apr 4, 2015)

> I'm no expert on the political strategy of Sinn Fein MPs but this is not a surprise





Spanky Longhorn said:


> they're not actually in parliament though.


That's implicit in the jokey comment.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

"angel-tongued charity workers from the valleys”. Wtf is that?

I mean I know what it is, I'm just metaphorically burying my head in my hands.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Thing is that both parties say the report is untrue. So I'm inclined to believe the Telegraph is trying to scupper the SNP. Why? Save the Union? Stop the SNP being a force in the negotiations? Probably both of those.



FCO leak, eh? Hammond's people, then?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> FCO leak, eh? Hammond's people, then?


Wouldn't be at all surprised. 

Did you see this?

http://www.civilserviceworld.com/articles/news/hm-treasury-team-wins-special-civil-service-award

[Civil servant] said: “This is one occasion where we've worked with the rest of Whitehall.

"We all had something in common, we're trying to save the Union here, and it came so close. We just kept it by the skin of our teeth. I actually cried when the result came in. After 10 years in the civil service, my proudest moment is tonight and receiving this award.”

He added: “As civil servants you don't get involved in politics. For the first time in my life, suddenly we're part of a political campaign. We were doing everything from the analysis, to the advertising, to the communications. I just felt a massive sense of being part of the operation. This being recognised [at the Civil Service Awards], makes me feel just incredibly proud.”


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Wouldn't be at all surprised.
> 
> Did you see this?
> 
> ...



Got to be, I suppose.
This "reverse machiavellianism" doesn't seem totally thought-through to me? WTF do they think they're up to?


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 4, 2015)

surely the idea of ultra red SNP acting as puppetmaster to a minority Labour government is the spin.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Got to be, I suppose.
> This "reverse machiavellianism" doesn't seem totally thought-through to me? WTF do they think they're up to?


They really think the SNP is a threat. A worse threat than Labour. 

They behaved like this when Labour was a new threat, too. Zinoviev letter anyone?


----------



## treelover (Apr 4, 2015)

Very British Corruption.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> surely the idea of ultra red SNP acting as puppetmaster to a minority Labour government is the spin.


The 'strategy' is inconsistent; it don't make sense...and the level of nuance they're demanding of English voters is too great IMO.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> They really think the SNP is a threat. A worse threat than Labour.
> 
> They behaved like this when Labour was a new threat, too. Zinoviev letter anyone?



But it's a nonsense electoral strategy; _*if *_they were able to undermine the nationalists it would only increase Miliband's chance of a working administration. 

And it demonstrates that their own polling must be confirming what we're seeing; they know they can't win.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

..and the desperate chump has latched onto the vermin's (disputed) leak. Twat.



> Ed Miliband has described an allegation that Nicola Sturgeon, the Scottish National party leader, told a senior French diplomat that she would rather see David Cameron win the general election as “damning”.


----------



## treelover (Apr 4, 2015)

What it all seems to show is that they(the establishment) won't tolerate even a mildly social democratic administration anymore, the fact they endorsed Blair's(in the end) speaks volumes about that particular one


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> But it's a nonsense electoral strategy; _*if *_they were able to undermine the nationalists it would only increase Miliband's chance of a working administration.
> 
> And it demonstrates that their own polling must be confirming what we're seeing; they know they can't win.


It presumably tells us they think a labour government without SNP involvement serves the national interests better than one with.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It presumably tells us they think a labour government without SNP involvement serves the national interests better than one with.


We should also remember that the vermin have the resources to run another election campaign coming quick on the heels of May.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It presumably tells us they think a labour government without SNP involvement serves the national interests better than one with.


----------



## weepiper (Apr 4, 2015)

Sue said:


> How's it playing up there? Not very well I'd have thought.



Much as you might expect


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

Yep...


----------



## weepiper (Apr 4, 2015)




----------



## nino_savatte (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yep...



Bingo.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

New low for @scottishlabour as their canvas stalls adorned with Daily Mail


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> New low for @scottishlabour as their canvas stalls adorned with Daily Mail



..but no union flag?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 4, 2015)

brogdale said:


> But it's a nonsense electoral strategy; _*if *_they were able to undermine the nationalists it would only increase Miliband's chance of a working administration.
> 
> And it demonstrates that their own polling must be confirming what we're seeing; they know they can't win.


Newsnet Scotland saying that the leak came from Scotland Office. Scottish Secretary, Carmichael, is a Lib Dem.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Newsnet Scotland saying that the leak came from Scotland Office. Scottish Secretary, Carmichael, is a Lib Dem.


Yep.


----------



## Sue (Apr 4, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Newsnet Scotland saying that the leak came from Scotland Office. Scottish Secretary, Carmichael, is a Lib Dem.



This should be on the Why the Lib Dems are shit thread really. So shit their smear campaigns crash and burn within hours...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 4, 2015)

Sue said:


> This should be on the Why the Lib Dems are shit thread really. So shit their smear campaigns crash and burn within hours...


Woah! It's already across 3 threads!


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2015)

And now we have Ed the happy warrior, using the audience at home, never getting agitated, getting the chance to show who he isn't.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32188119


----------



## elbows (Apr 5, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I think they missed a trick not to big up the Greens and, to some extent Clegg's articulation of "progressive" ideals.



The tories? They only had a limited appetite for Camerons detoxification and progressive rhetoric last time around. And after years of a coalition which, in the minds of some of their base, took too much of the nasty edge away from the party, the last thing the tories want to demonstrate in this campaign is how they strut their stuff when slightly watered down by bloody liberals or green agendas. Balls to the progressive stuff, they want to give people a glimpse of what they could expect if only the electorate had the decency to give the tories a nice majority. So, all Cameron could really do on the green front was shit some shit by getting them into the leaders debate, he wasn't going to go out of his way to praise or pilfer their rhetoric this time.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 5, 2015)

I'm surprised the Sturgeon-wanting-the-tories-in story got the exposure it did, really. Half the time Miliband looks like he'd actually like the tories to be in next time, too.


----------



## treelover (Apr 5, 2015)

> Children are turning up to school sick because their parents cannot afford to take time off to care for them, teachers say.
> 
> School staff are also still seeing youngsters arriving for lessons hungry, tired and wearing inappropriate clothes due to a continuing squeeze on family finances, according to the NASUWT teaching union.
> 
> ...



Pity this didn't come out before the debate, but would Milliband have raised it anyway, I doubt it.


----------



## treelover (Apr 5, 2015)




----------



## Karac (Apr 5, 2015)

Nancy_Winks said:


> Why does Wood come out so badly? She's kind of 'the left' along with Sturgeon in that debate eh. She didn't speak as well as Sturgeon, but she's surely better than Bennett?!


Like others have pointed out she was totally focussed on Wales.
Sturgeon from a stronger position post referendum was able to develop a more UK wide position which went down a lot better.
Leanne Woods main focus is getting elected as the AM for the Rhondda in 2016 -which will be no mean feat.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 5, 2015)

Just to go back to Farage's comments about HIV and immigrants, YouGov has done some polling on the issue and found that


> On immigration and HIV – perhaps the one specific issue from the debate that stood out – 50% of people would support the idea of banning immigrants to Britain from NHS treatment, 34% of people are opposed. Asked specifically about Nigel Farage’s comments on HIV, 37% said he was scaremongering, 52% said it was a serious issue he was right to raise.


So no evidence of a backlash against UKIP there.


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 6, 2015)

Plenty of people believe what they want to believe


----------



## Lord Camomile (Apr 6, 2015)

The rhetoric of the right is very seductive - it's someone else's fault, the answer is simple, you can have everything, your priorities come before everyone else's.

Not hard to see how they do well the way politics currently operates, with crowd-pleasing soundbites winning out over serious discussion.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 7, 2015)

Heard that Sturgeon was not so good tonight in the Scottish debate - any watchers?


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 7, 2015)

Didn't see it.


----------



## pogofish (Apr 7, 2015)

Too tired after a day getting ready for the next Scottish debate.  I helped solve the BBC's "power problem" this afternoon - and the "rehearsal" with a line-up of elderly hippyish riggers was a hoot - Nicola's stand-in looked like a plumper version of Robert Plant!


----------



## xslavearcx (Apr 7, 2015)

Thought it was on tommorrow...?


----------



## weltweit (Apr 7, 2015)

Apparently Sturgeon was asked about the next referendum and she said it was up to the people.
But of a cop out I think that answer.


----------



## ddraig (Apr 7, 2015)

still needs to be set up before init


----------



## pogofish (Apr 7, 2015)

xslavearcx said:


> Thought it was on tommorrow...?



They started building the set early yesterday.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 8, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Apparently Sturgeon was asked about the next referendum and she said it was up to the people.
> But of a cop out I think that answer.


not really, it equates to 'see if I get enough votes to have the mandate to set a date for another reff'


----------



## pogofish (Apr 8, 2015)

So much for "you guys probably won't be involved" then!


















I have my pass and I've been sworn to secrecy about what's going-on inside!


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 8, 2015)

weltweit said:


> Apparently Sturgeon was asked about the next referendum and she said it was up to the people.
> But of a cop out I think that answer.


This is what all the papers have picked up on, and are presenting it as a negative.  "Neverendum", "Sturgeon stumbles on Indy vote", etc.  They're using this to suggest her performance wasn't quite as good as last week.  

I still haven't seen last night's debate, but I think they miss the point.  Those who see that as a stumble are Unionists.  The vast majority of those planning to vote SNP in May are Yes voters, and they don't see the prospect of another referendum as a negative.

People who are anti-SNP, by and large, are anti-SNP because of independence.  They're going to hate it when Sturgeon talks about a possible future referendum, but they're not Sturgeon's audience here in Scotland.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 8, 2015)

I probably won't watch tonight, either.  This is why: Jim Murphy's face.




This clip is only 29 seconds long, but that's already pushing the envelope of my capacity to thole him.


----------



## The Boy (Apr 8, 2015)

That was basically five people trying to kick lumps out of sturgeon.  until they got bored and called Coburn a cunt for a bit.


----------



## xslavearcx (Apr 8, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I probably won't watch tonight, either.  This is why: Jim Murphy's face.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It was hard work watching him...


----------



## weepiper (Apr 8, 2015)

It was very shouty. Everyone did their level best to stop Nicola Sturgeon completing a sentence uninterrupted. Patrick Harvie was very good. David Coburn was, well, very UKIP. I switched off before the end but apparently the rest of them refused to shake his hand at the end and Sturgeon turned her back on him.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 8, 2015)

This happened


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 9, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> This happened
> 
> View attachment 69883



He's blatantly just pissed, shat and jizzed himself at the same time!


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 9, 2015)

Thats the first time I've seen jim murphy- the smirk on him!


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> Thats the first time I've seen jim murphy- the smirk on him!


You're lucky.

I am quite able to watch Miliband or Cameron for a while, listen to what they've got to say, and disagree with it.  But I physically can't stomach Murphy.  He awakens in me loathing akin to that I had for Thatcher.  Not just loathing of ideas, but _personal_ distaste.  He is a loathsome, loathsome little snake.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 9, 2015)

well, we both have our El Guappo's danny, because Cameron- tghe accent, the arrogance, the louche what-he-thinks-is-charm means that I haven't watched a full PMQ's in the last five years. Visceral disgust.


----------



## xslavearcx (Apr 9, 2015)

He's got even worse since he's started trying to talk about the working class and sound social democratic.. Can you imagine someone being worse than when they presented themselves as full blown blairite? That's how bad it is ... Shudder....


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 9, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> well, we both have our El Guappo's danny, because Cameron- tghe accent, the arrogance, the louche what-he-thinks-is-charm means that I haven't watched a full PMQ's in the last five years. Visceral disgust.


From the Roman senate steps to the Three Amigos! in two posts.  I salute your breadth of dilettantism.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 10, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Heard that Sturgeon was not so good tonight in the Scottish debate - any watchers?


Still haven't seen it, but it seems the public think she won: https://commonspace.scot/articles/9...urphy-lagged-behind-in-third-place-say-voters


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 16, 2015)

I believe there's another one tonight. Anyone tuning in?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I believe there's another one tonight. Anyone tuning in?


dave's watching, apparently


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 16, 2015)

brogdale said:


> dave's watching, apparently



Yup and his mate's have been invited on TV to comment on the debate, which, seen as he didnt want to show, seems entirely fair.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Teaboy said:


> Yup and his mate's have been invited on TV to comment on the debate, which, seen as he didnt want to show, seems entirely fair.


No, but more importantly...is it another eviction night, tonight? Will we find out the next two to leave?


----------



## Coolfonz (Apr 16, 2015)

Prediction: they are all cunts.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Coolfonz said:


> Prediction: they are all cunts.


Tell everyone how they should do everything ever please. esp the left.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

brogdale said:


> No, but more importantly...is it another eviction night, tonight? Will we find out the next two to leave?



Bennett is annoying me, she uses the Diary Room like it's a fucking greenpeace seance!


----------



## Coolfonz (Apr 16, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Tell everyone how they should do everything ever please. esp the left.


What now?
1. Watch the Simpsons
2. Support Chelsea
3. Dance


----------



## chilango (Apr 16, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I believe there's another one tonight. Anyone tuning in?



Unlikely. One was enough for me.


----------



## treelover (Apr 16, 2015)

Laura Kuenssberg, Newsnight Chief Correspondent is claiming there is to be a QT special at the end of the month with Ed, Cameron, and Clegg all appearing.

Oh, and BBC News have just said that Farage "will be aiming for the centre ground" in the debate tonight.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Next one:


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

Not going to lie I'm only watching to see what shit the Green come up with this time.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Good no nonsense stuff focusing on wales.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Farage again a good intro (many turn off after 10 minutes). Risky (_i'm thinking what you're really thinking_).


----------



## chilango (Apr 16, 2015)

Just flipped it on. We'll see how long I last.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Green shit


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Farage again a good intro (many turn off after 10 minutes). Risky (_i'm thinking what you're really thinking_).



As someone who wouldn't vote UKIP in a lifetime, part of me can't help but like Farage with his confidence and charisma.


----------



## xenon (Apr 16, 2015)

Missed first one, listening now.


----------



## chilango (Apr 16, 2015)

"Live within our means" ugh. Fuck off.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

Look at the camera. Look.at.the.camera.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> As someone who wouldn't vote UKIP in a lifetime, part of me can't help but like Farage with his confidence and charisma.


A lot of it is really just confidence.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 16, 2015)

Bennett's opening was better than before.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 16, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> Look at the camera. Look.at.the.camera.



man started by addressing Charlotte then his meeja training kicked in, didn't it?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Miliband is better on being normal-this doesn't give him space to do that. Yet. Green blather.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Bennett's opening was better than before.


Too late.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

1st question a vermin question. Is that how this is gonna work?


----------



## chilango (Apr 16, 2015)

Wood doing well again.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

Wouldn't be surprised to see on twitter from the 18-19 year olds asking if the SNP and Plaid Cymru are running in their London constituency and why not etc.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Leane Wood, nice defence, looking at home.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Apr 16, 2015)

Farage doesn't know what he's on about, does he? I mean the numbers he just rattled off don't make sense


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

(((charlotte)))


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Pop a Cam ---> biggest applause


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Miliband is a very clever person - surrounded by clever people. Why does he listen to the never elected positioning people around him


----------



## elbows (Apr 16, 2015)

Whatever happens in this election, at least austerity, there is no alternative, etc have been properly challenged on the telly, with some appropriate references to history and things we gained that have since been taken away.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Sturgs wields power.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

Bennetts probably one of the nicest looking people I've ever wanted to punch in the face.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Leanne tells Miliband about poverty in his constituency. Good lass.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 16, 2015)

Ed is getting positioned as electable by all the celts and nutters - this is great.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

31% of kids in wales in poverty?


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 16, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Leanne tells Miliband about poverty in his constituency. Good lass.



Getting a lesson from Sturgeon and Wood about his party's mealy mouthed weakass bullshit. Very nice.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Ed is getting positioned as electable by all the celts and nutters - this is great.


You're the reason why the yes vote almost won. Prick.


----------



## chilango (Apr 16, 2015)

Very interesting to see how (in both debates) having Sturgeon, Wood and Bennet has dragged the centre of the debate leftwards...


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 16, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> 31% of kids in wales in poverty?



Shamefully, true. It's in here. West Wales is the poorest region in the EU.
http://gov.wales/docs/caecd/research/2014/140709-child-poverty-strategy-wales-final-en.pdf


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Shamefully, true. It's in here. West Wales is the poorest region in the EU.
> http://gov.wales/docs/caecd/research/2014/140709-child-poverty-strategy-wales-final-en.pdf


(Thank you,will come back to this later)


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

work with us


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

I wish Miliband would just say we'll get rid of Trident. So there's your cuts, bam.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

Feel like the only one who is clapping Bennett is the husband, who isn't voting Green.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 16, 2015)

What ratings have these things got so far? And have any of the pollsters correlated don't knows (who voted in 2010) to those who have watched the debates?


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 16, 2015)

I think I'm going to take a drink everytime Farage oh so surprisingly blames the immigrants.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

"More social housing not less" "Rent caps" "Double council tax on holiday homes" That's how you do it Miliband, you twat.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

Wood and Sturgeon are throwing daggers at Miliband. This is gonna hurt him more than the Tories and the LibDems, and he's now realising it.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 16, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Wood and Sturgeon are throwing daggers at Miliband. This is gonna hurt him more than the Tories and the LibDems, and he's now realising it.



Not with Lib Dem switchers and genuine floaters.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Not in principle opposed to RtB.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Not with Lib Dem switchers and genuine floaters.



Depends really for those watching it, those who won't will just think that them not turning up is for whatever reasons and blah blah, but those who are watching will just see Labour get picked at for their policies like vultures at meat.

Not saying it's a bad thing at all, if anything it's making me think more about who gets my tick.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

Farage just dissed the audience... lol. nice one


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Farage fucks up.


----------



## magneze (Apr 16, 2015)

This could really fuck the Tories. Looks terrible for them. Only Farage speaking for the right and he's doing shit.


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 16, 2015)

OH FFS Farage


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

For an independent polling organisation, can't help but think that Farage is right with the Left Wing favouritism.


----------



## oryx (Apr 16, 2015)

'left wing bias of the BBC' Farage is an even bigger dickhead than I thought - now really patronising the audience.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

Sturgeon bitch slapped Farage for real


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

20-40s up on miliband for tenants stuff. Sturgeon did what miliband couldn't.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Badgering not good for farage.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

Claws came out, Sturgeon came out on too. Round two coming up


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Anti-market, nice.

Will work with all but maurice.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 16, 2015)

Ed's fake tan is best


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Fatch to blame. Top work leanne.


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

Miliband: that is a disaster for the economy (pulling out of the EU)


----------



## Maharani (Apr 16, 2015)

Sturgeon has the burgeoning power!


----------



## treelover (Apr 16, 2015)

Ed is sounding like Cameron in 2010


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

treelover said:


> Ed is sounding like Cameron in 2010


what does that mean?


----------



## weepiper (Apr 16, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Farage starts laughing like a teased female possibly getting a fingering for the first time. Dirty man.


Can you just fucking not. Thanks.


----------



## stethoscope (Apr 16, 2015)

Tony_LeaS said:


> Farage starts laughing like a teased female possibly getting a fingering for the first time. Dirty man.



Leave it out.


----------



## Maharani (Apr 16, 2015)

And she's wearing killer heals...


----------



## Tony_LeaS (Apr 16, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Can you just fucking not. Thanks.





stethoscope said:


> Leave it out.



Apologies to the both.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 16, 2015)

The apology needs to be general, not to the two people who happened to pick you up on it.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 16, 2015)

Are they taking any pops at the government or are they mainly arguing about each other? (I'm on a campsite 11,000 odd miles away only seeing this through the prism of urban since twitter won't update quick enough on a shitty mobile phone connection!)


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 16, 2015)

.
(dp)


----------



## treelover (Apr 16, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> what does that mean?




He is coming from the right, caring Cameron style 2010, before the coalition.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

The chaps are bonding over WoMD. Nice...those silly women.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Why did posh boy say it's the opening statements?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Now she reminds him what the question was about. Quality.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

treelover said:


> He is coming from the right, caring Cameron style 2010, before the coalition.


No he's not. Are you even listening?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

facile question woods


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> facile question woods


Not really, he hijacked the trident question off to ISIS.


----------



## treelover (Apr 16, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> No he's not. Are you even listening?




Ok, I'll bite, why isn't he?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 16, 2015)

He can't really say that we need nukes to scare Putin, I suppose.


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 16, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> He can't really say that we need nukes to scare Putin, I suppose.



I thought he thinks we should do less about Putin, like all his other European far right mates?


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 16, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> I thought he thinks we should do less about Putin, like all his other European far right mates?



Which he did you mean?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

All migrants are the same


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 16, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Which he did you mean?


 Possibly not the same he as you  I'm talking about Farage. I'm also trying and failing to write an essay while listening so probably completely misunderstood!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Brace yourselves...we're coming up to the HIV moment...


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 16, 2015)

Yeah, I meant Ed re the "would you nuke ISIS" question.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Leanne reminds him of the HIV comment.


----------



## jusali (Apr 16, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Brace yourselves...we're coming up to the HIV moment...


Boom! And there it is!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

"When you lose an argument in politics you tend to resort to abusing your opponent" says man who just abused the audience


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Repeal Fatch's anti TU legislation.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Farage lost audience. Not ness bad for him

Woods left wing etc


----------



## treelover (Apr 16, 2015)

the audience really isn't representative, it seems to be cheering on all the left wing proposals, I wish the country was like that, but it isn't.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

green idiots


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Farage lost audience. Not ness bad for him
> 
> Woods left wing etc


True. he knows who he's speaking to; he said 'the real audience is at home'


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 16, 2015)

Cue gold confetti lass, clowns and pandas


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 16, 2015)

Farage might have got more of a response from the audience if he hadn't insulted them.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

treelover said:


> the audience really isn't representative, it seems to be cheering on all the left wing proposals, I wish the country was like that, but it isn't.


How did you judge their representative nature?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

HIV+


----------



## mk12 (Apr 16, 2015)

Dimbleby said the audience has been selected based on polling figures of the parties represented. So 90% (ish) of the audience are Lab, SNP, PC, Greens? No Tories, no LDs? A small minority UKIP?

Or did I not hear him correctly?


----------



## jusali (Apr 16, 2015)

Ha ha HIV health tourism!


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

"flying into this country for HIV drugs"

omg ffs


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

fumbling gay hiv

Not good.


----------



## mk12 (Apr 16, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Farage might have got more of a response from the audience if he hadn't insulted them.


I don't think he cares. The audience in the hall are not who he is talking to.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 16, 2015)

mk12 said:


> Dimbleby said the audience has been selected based on polling figures of the parties represented. So 90% (ish) of the audience are Lab, SNP, PC, Greens? No Tories, no LDs? A small minority UKIP?
> 
> Or did I not hear him correctly?


Representative of the parties standing.


----------



## mk12 (Apr 16, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Representative of the parties standing.



Ah. I'm still surprised Farage isn't receiving any support from the audience. Surely there's some in there who like what he's saying?


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 16, 2015)

national or international health service! ooh Matron!


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Excellent miliband use of NW and NS.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

"stop lying"


----------



## jusali (Apr 16, 2015)

Natalie calm down!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

"the back of the tories" Yes.


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Desperate for ed?

This is odd.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

> Here are the most asked questions on Google during debate:
> 
> 
> *What is austerity*?
> ...



Well done the 3 women leaders for getting that q to no.1


----------



## jusali (Apr 16, 2015)

Kin ell


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

"people will never forgive you"


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

why should i trust the SNP?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Woods is boring.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 16, 2015)

Ed and Nicola playing hard to get with each other. It's adorable.


----------



## passenger (Apr 16, 2015)

green poo bless her


----------



## 74drew (Apr 16, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Ed and Nicola playing hard to get with each other. It's adorable.



She was hardly playing hard to get!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 16, 2015)

Voting. Why the fuck would you. Fuck this shit.

Spunking cock.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 16, 2015)

74drew said:


> She was hardly playing hard to get!



Treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen. (kidding)


----------



## jusali (Apr 16, 2015)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> Ed and Nicola playing hard to get with each other. It's adorable.


Guaranteed they'll be fucking like rabbits tonight in a premier inn tonight


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Was that the first and only mention of the LDs tonight?


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

Disappointed we didn't see any awkward 'I met a black man once' anecdotes. never mind, see you all again in 5 years.


----------



## Tankus (Apr 16, 2015)

Uh ..who ?


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 16, 2015)

Good on the green. Donegood work.


----------



## oryx (Apr 16, 2015)

Didn't like the 'working families' bit from Milliband.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 16, 2015)

Ed said "one on one" a bit weird. Sounded like he was suggesting sex. :shudders:


----------



## Tankus (Apr 16, 2015)

I felt dirrty


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Ed said "one on one" a bit weird. Sounded like he was suggesting sex. :shudders:


Yeah..."debate me". 

Urgh


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 16, 2015)

oryx said:


> Didn't like the 'working families' bit from Milliband.



wtf do you expect?


----------



## Tankus (Apr 16, 2015)

At least farrage sounded sincere..rather than creepy


----------



## jusali (Apr 16, 2015)

All the girls cuddling


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 16, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yeah..."debate me".
> 
> Urgh


He eyes went all weird too. Wind it back, he was so suggesting sex.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

Off to the cunt's cunts room now.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

Did Farage just walk off the end, knowing nobody in the audience would want to shake hands?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 16, 2015)




----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 16, 2015)

It's Ted Maul now.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 16, 2015)

Better Ed than dead heat or something, real change and that. Vote for hope. Control our borders. Little men and women. Debate. Cue music. Wankers.


----------



## elbows (Apr 16, 2015)

Farage didnt meet and greet the audience


----------



## Plumdaff (Apr 16, 2015)

"It's all kicking off" Boring politics man. 

If bloody only.


----------



## elbows (Apr 16, 2015)

Has Hague polished his head?


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Apr 16, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> Did Farage just walk off the end, knowing nobody in the audience would want to shake hands?



Needed a pint sharpish.


----------



## jusali (Apr 16, 2015)

Oh no it's the Tory version of Jimmy Somerville


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 16, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Boring politics man.



(((John Pienaar)))


----------



## treelover (Apr 16, 2015)

Great to hear Natalie talk about ATOS, the WCA, etc, some people would have gone off to google that later,

she did say 'working families', though.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 16, 2015)

elbows said:


> Farage didnt meet and greet the audience



The fear of having someone stove his head in?


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 16, 2015)

elbows said:


> Has Hague polished his head?


Has Hague polished whose head?


----------



## jusali (Apr 16, 2015)

Hardworking families Ffs why are we all fucking hard working families, slaves were hard working families


----------



## treelover (Apr 16, 2015)

Its Clinton(tm) triangulation


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 16, 2015)

jusali said:


> Hardworking families Ffs why are we all fucking hard working families, slaves were hard working families



No mention of hard working families in that


----------



## oryx (Apr 16, 2015)

jusali said:


> Hardworking families Ffs why are we all fucking hard working families, slaves were hard working families



Phrase makes me cringe. Surely it must be alienating to so many people. 

Brave of Bennett to say they were the party for everyone (or summat like that).


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 16, 2015)

jusali said:


> Hardworking families Ffs why are we all fucking hard working families, slaves were hard working families



eh?


----------



## jusali (Apr 16, 2015)

But more needs to be done for hard working families surely?


----------



## spartacus mills (Apr 16, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yeah..."debate me".
> 
> Urgh





danny la rouge said:


> He eyes went all weird too. Wind it back, he was so suggesting sex.



It was like ''I want you to debate me roughly from behind''...


----------



## oryx (Apr 16, 2015)

Libdem Muppet Alexander going on about how dangerous tonight's bunch were, like they were the Khmer Rouge or something!


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 16, 2015)

On the breadline - all a big fucking laff innit. Fuck these cunts.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Apr 16, 2015)

starting to do the rounds on tweeter.

looks like someone wasn't all that convinced by mr farrago


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 16, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> Did Farage just walk off the end, knowing nobody in the audience would want to shake hands?


Again not necessarily a bad move for the people who's vote he's aiming for. 

I didn't see it, but surely Cameron fucked this one up. One of the main things the Tories have going for them is that on a people don't Miliband as PM material. His not turning up let everyone get to see Miliband as a potential PM with no rivals (clearly none of the other participants are going to be PM).


----------



## weepiper (Apr 16, 2015)




----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

The tub of lard effect?


----------



## chilango (Apr 16, 2015)

Nobody is talking about Nick Clegg. Nobody.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

chilango said:


> Nobody is talking about Nick Clegg. Nobody.


Wrong, Beaker did.


----------



## chilango (Apr 16, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Wrong, Beaker did.


Sorry. 

"A nobody is talking about Nick Clegg. A nobody."


----------



## chilango (Apr 16, 2015)

Piers Morgan has just started talking about him. 

"Irrelevant little lap dog".


----------



## brogdale (Apr 16, 2015)

chilango said:


> Piers Morgan has just started talking about him.
> 
> "Irrelevant little lap dog".


His line to Shapps was nice; "...don't talk about Miliband being propped up by the SNP, when you rely of that irrelevant poodle Clegg.."


----------



## belboid (Apr 16, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Again not necessarily a bad move for the people who's vote he's aiming for.
> 
> I didn't see it, but surely Cameron fucked this one up. One of the main things the Tories have going for them is that on a people don't Miliband as PM material. His not turning up let everyone get to see Miliband as a potential PM with no rivals (clearly none of the other participants are going to be PM).


except he got beaten by Sturgeon, who isn't going to be PM. He was the main target for everyone for the evening, taking all the punches. Can't do Cameron any harm.


----------



## stowpirate (Apr 16, 2015)

chilango said:


> Nobody is talking about Nick Clegg. Nobody.


Nick fears fifth columnist BLUKIP infiltration!


----------



## chilango (Apr 16, 2015)

Blukip. Was that serious?


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 17, 2015)

belboid said:


> except he got beaten by Sturgeon, who isn't going to be PM. He was the main target for everyone for the evening, taking all the punches.


OK, not the impression I got from this thread or the bits and pieces I've seen but as I said I didn't watch it so ...


----------



## DownwardDog (Apr 17, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> starting to do the rounds on tweeter.
> 
> looks like someone wasn't all that convinced by mr farrago



His hair is starting to look like Conway Twitty's.


----------



## magneze (Apr 17, 2015)

belboid said:


> except he got beaten by Sturgeon, who isn't going to be PM. He was the main target for everyone for the evening, taking all the punches. Can't do Cameron any harm.


That's not what happened though.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 17, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> OK, not the impression I got from this thread or the bits and pieces I've seen but as I said I didn't watch it so ...


Miliband performed much better this time.  He'd learned from last time: when talking about immigration, he was a bit UKIPy, but he mentioned he was a son of immigrants (he didn't last time).  And he took his fight to Sturgeon, which he didn't last time.  That said, he brought up 1979, but it fell flat.  Partly because his delivery was timed badly (he has a problem with that), partly because he used the word "presaged", diffusing his meaning, and partly because the audience groaned (not sure why - it was a largely English audience. They can't be that bored of the accusation), and partly because Sturgeon's comeback - "Ed, I was 9 at the time" - was well-delivered.

So, Sturgeon didn't have it all her own way, but she still came across well, and was saying the sorts of things that a Labour leader should say.  And she says it in a way I think people would hope a Labour leader would say them.

The poll for Survation suggests that Miliband and Sturgeon were closely matched, with Miliband slightly ahead.  I didn't agree, I'd have said on performance that Miliband, while improved, is still a bit shaky, and misjudges his timing and his delivery at times.  But I wonder if part of the judgement is that viewers know that Sturgeon won't be PM, but Miliband might.  Indeed, Sturgeon was herself talking about what she could do to put Miliband in number 10.

Farage lost the studio audience (by insulting them), but won't have done himself any harm with his audience in their living rooms. 

I thought Bennett had improved greatly (but from a low base), and that Wood had a less impressive evening this time.


----------



## Maharani (Apr 17, 2015)




----------



## belboid (Apr 17, 2015)

magneze said:


> That's not what happened though.


You think he beat Sturgeon? he certainly took punches from everyone.


----------



## DexterTCN (Apr 17, 2015)

spartacus mills said:


> It was like ''I want you to debate me roughly from behind''...


mass-debate, surely?


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 17, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Miliband performed much better this time. <snip>.


Ta for the summary Danny.


----------



## magneze (Apr 17, 2015)

belboid said:


> You think he beat Sturgeon? he certainly took punches from everyone.


I thought so, others didn't. Reasonably balanced between them both I thought - definitely the two best performers. He also wasn't the main target at all, that's just wrong.


----------



## belboid (Apr 17, 2015)

magneze said:


> I thought so, others didn't. Reasonably balanced between them both I thought - definitely the two best performers. He also wasn't the main target at all, that's just wrong.


Really?  Wow.

I disagree.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 17, 2015)

I noticed that the trace, for what it's worth, went right up whenever Wood, Bennett or Sturgeon talked about what they actually thought/believed in, but right down again as soon as they mentioned their own parties.  It's most favourable response to Moribund seemed to be when he laid into Sturgeon about the impossibility (ha ha) of Labour working with the SNP.

I can see that people might find Ed more likeable and less weird the more they see/hear from him, but it's still hard to see how anyone might have any enthusiasm for him as prime minister material.  But then, Cameron's got prime minister material stamped all over his big swollen face and look where that's got us.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 17, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Farage lost the studio audience (by insulting them), but won't have done himself any harm with his audience in their living rooms.



That's what people miss, isn't it, when they deride his performance in this kind of situation?  Just as they did when they said Nick Griffin showed himself up on Question Time.  Complete misunderstanding of what Farage is trying to achieve.  The more he looks like the outsider, loathed by the others on the stage, the more the kind of audience who actually attends these things applauds when another politican neatly condemns his bigoted views, the more he sounds clumsy in comparison to them, the better it'll go down with anyone who's even remotely likely to vote for him in the first place.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Apr 17, 2015)

I liked this shot from last night


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 17, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> I liked this shot from last night



Ed's internal monologue: 'That reminds me, must clear my browser history....'


----------



## two sheds (Apr 17, 2015)

Not seen any of these but I always feel they'd be much more entertaining if the background showed readings from one of the lie detectors that insurance companies apparently use when people phone them up to make a claim.


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 17, 2015)

sturgeon put forward the idea of a 'progressive coalition' which colud be interesting to watch with lab, snp, green and pc.


----------



## killer b (Apr 17, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> But then, Cameron's got prime minister material stamped all over his big swollen face.


Really? Are we looking at the same David Cameron?


----------



## The Octagon (Apr 17, 2015)

Puddy_Tat said:


> starting to do the rounds on tweeter.
> 
> looks like someone wasn't all that convinced by mr farrago




"Oh no you di'nt"


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 17, 2015)

John Curtice says "Sturgeon again the star".

http://www.scotsman.com/news/john-curtice-nicola-sturgeon-again-the-star-1-3746280

I think he's right that Sturgeon performed best, but I think he's not really getting the Farage factor.  Yes, he was left isolated, but for his fan base that's not necessarily a bad thing.






"Leftie harridans congratulate Red Ed.  Our man is not part of that coterie". 

Remember the UKIPy Tory woman interviewed as part of the after debate bollocks?  She thought Sturgeon was an awful person.


----------



## Teaboy (Apr 17, 2015)

Did Farrage insist on white lectern for the debate? ^^^^


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 17, 2015)

Teaboy said:


> Did Farrage insist on white lectern for the debate? ^^^^


It was gold and blue.


----------



## treelover (Apr 17, 2015)

DownwardDog said:


> His hair is starting to look like Conway Twitty's.




he is looking like a Fifties crooner


----------



## treelover (Apr 17, 2015)

Maharani said:


> View attachment 70284




Powerful image, but a image of a young trendy woman barfing out the Union Jack won't deter people who are thinking of voting UKIP.


----------



## treelover (Apr 17, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> I liked this shot from last night



So different than the usual politics, hope they all do well.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 17, 2015)

treelover said:


> he is looking like a Fifties crooner


Johnny Ray?


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 17, 2015)

killer b said:


> Really? Are we looking at the same David Cameron?



The self-satisfied, entitled toff who only manages to thinly disguise his contempt for ordinary people because he never has to encounter them except in brief, staged PR opportunities?  Looks very much like a prime minister to me.


----------



## killer b (Apr 17, 2015)

treelover said:


> Powerful image, but a image of a young trendy woman barfing out the Union Jack won't deter people who are thinking of voting UKIP.


Did you really say 'trendy?


----------



## treelover (Apr 17, 2015)

Yes, I would have said hipster, but the look is a bit dated for that,


----------



## Maharani (Apr 17, 2015)

treelover said:


> Powerful image, but a image of a young trendy woman barfing out the Union Jack won't deter people who are thinking of voting UKIP.


I just liked the vomit bit. Didn't really think about the vomiter.


----------



## pesh (Apr 17, 2015)

mate on Facebook was just suggesting Cameron and Clegg should be sanctioned for not turning up for their job interview


----------



## killer b (Apr 17, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> The self-satisfied, entitled toff who only manages to thinly disguise his contempt for ordinary people because he never has to encounter them except in brief, staged PR opportunities?  Looks very much like a prime minister to me.


Those are all things that Cameron has brought to the role though aren't they?


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 17, 2015)

killer b said:


> Those are all things that Cameron has brought to the role though aren't they?



Well yes, but my point was that in combining Thatcherite heartlessness and Blairite smug vacuousness with the classic, old-school governmental trait of aristocratic distance from reality he's very much 'prime minister material'.  I wasn't saying it to be complimentary...


----------



## belboid (Apr 17, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I think he's right that Sturgeon performed best, but I think he's not really getting the Farage factor.  Yes, he was left isolated, but for his fan base that's not necessarily a bad thing.[/MEDIA]


except he narrowed his potential fan base down by being quite so blatantly right wing. Shouting 'everything is all immigrants fault' doesn't really appeal to people even if they think immigration  has got out of control. The 'blue labourites' they were making headway amongst may have some sympathies with his points, but dont want to - or at least dont want to be seen to - blame immigrants for _everything_.  You could see that by the response to his suggestion that new social housing be for british nationals only - there were murmurs of agreement with him on that question up until he said that, it's a blatant step too far for people who want to think of themselves as reasonable. He's no longer even aiming to speak to 20% of the electorate, down to little over 10, imo


----------



## butchersapron (Apr 17, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> I liked this shot from last night


_we're all in it together_


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 17, 2015)

malatesta32 said:


> sturgeon put forward the idea of a 'progressive coalition' which colud be interesting to watch with lab, snp, green and pc.



How would that be progressive?


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 17, 2015)

Teaboy said:


> Did Farrage insist on white lectern for the debate? ^^^^


----------



## malatesta32 (Apr 17, 2015)

bi0boy said:


> How would that be progressive?



i didn't say it would be progressive, i said it would be interesting to watch as to how it would work.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 17, 2015)

skyscraper101 said:


> I liked this shot from last night



Guardian on this image: Something new is happening in British Politics. This image captures it.

If you can't be bothered to read it all, don't worry - the best bits are sure to be in next week's Pseud's Corner.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 17, 2015)

billy_bob said:


> Guardian on this image: Something new is happening in British Politics. This image captures it.
> 
> If you can't be bothered to read it all, don't worry - the best bits are sure to be in next week's Pseud's Corner.


This might just qualify for entry...



> _This handshake has the formal, momentous quality of, say, the meeting of Dutch and Spanish generals in Velazquez’s painting The Surrender of Breda. Sturgeon seems almost to bow, as the Spanish leader does in that masterpiece of history painting. All it lacks is someone looking out of the picture, catching our eye, commenting silently on the falseness of the moment, the complexities behind a simple image of friendship and possible alliance._


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

...and another.

Anyone?

Just for reference...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

...and starts at 8.00pm if you want it warm.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 30, 2015)

I'll cycle past this on the way home.  Is my route going to be blocked with news trucks parking in the cycle lanes etc?  Fuck this circus.


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Why is it always my turn to babysit when this shit us on TV?

Watching tonight too.


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Ooh. Out comes the prop.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Jesus, has he been on gideon's pick-me-up?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

Cameron is getting a bit of a hammering from the audience on food banks and persecution of the disabled. Good.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)




----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Gammon cheeks appearing...


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

BTW, the difference between the tone and substance of the audience questions during this and the Murdoch organised one is telling


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

"*That didn't answer my question Mr Cameron*"

Ignored. Moving on...


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)




----------



## Kaka Tim (Apr 30, 2015)

Hes wearing a LOT of slap.


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Really overdoing the "what I inherited" schtick.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Kaka Tim said:


> Hes wearing a LOT of slap.


sweat's showing though...it's Nixon's upper lip again...


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

"Good evening", he is riled, this is great.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Whatever he took in the green room...it's wearing off quick


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

The NHS "*...my life's work*"

CUNT


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)

Blathering, can't move his hips! He's no Elvis. Twat.


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Is Clegg on this?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

chilango said:


> Is Clegg on this?


amazingly, yes


----------



## xenon (Apr 30, 2015)

Someone coming from the EU to work here, is effectively getting 8 grand in benefits.

Er.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)

chilango said:


> Is Clegg on this?


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> amazingly, yes



Cool. Haven't seen him face the voters yet.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Sounds like lots of pleading.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

chilango said:


> Cool. Haven't seen him face the voters yet.


Fees; first question?


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

"Hi David, y'alright mate?"


----------



## agricola (Apr 30, 2015)

xenon said:


> Someone coming from the EU to work here, is effectively getting 8 grand in benefits.
> 
> Er.



Thats outrageous, its the equivalent of half a year's breakfast for IDS.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

"Look"
"What I'm saying"
"Do the right thing"


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

I thought this was going to be more depressing softball shit like the Murdoch one but this is great


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Desperate grab for UKIP voters there.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

You can almost see him hemorrhaging votes


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)




----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

This is fun.

Surely Clegg will get a kicking?


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)




----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)




----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Poor start from Miliband.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

Business owner fuck off you thick moron


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

J Ed said:


> Business owner fuck off you thick moron



Audience volume raised....two thirds coalition supporters.


----------



## bi0boy (Apr 30, 2015)

Milliband not so good with this format. His sound bites don't cut it.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

"If he worked in the corporate world", I love the idea that the corporate world is actually more representative of reality, the corporate world is probably one of the few parts of society less in touch with society than the political class.


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Miliband is fucking this up.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

"...._that's a great question Shirley_..."

Can't be long before "_I'm really glad you asked me that.."_


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Better on the non-dom stuff.


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

He's not pleasing anyone here.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

"I am in financial services" - no shit, it's obvious.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Oh god one of those gold knobs.

Just tell him he's a fuckwit


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 30, 2015)

Hostile crowd for Ed.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Same questions every time from the vermin audience


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Hostile crowd for Ed.



Full of thick posh cunts


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)

Double the cunts


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

These 'leaders' don't get out much, do they. This is their job...they're meant to be able to do this.


----------



## oryx (Apr 30, 2015)

Yeah, where did they dredge this braying herd of Mail reader types from?!


----------



## rekil (Apr 30, 2015)

Yellow tie Libdem cunt.


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

miliband is really, really misjudging this.


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Miliband you fucking idiot. You're blowing this.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

they get so fucking irritated when questioned


----------



## xenon (Apr 30, 2015)

LOL


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Good Clegg joke


----------



## rekil (Apr 30, 2015)

Was that a little bit smut?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

copliker said:


> Was that a little bit smut?


LD wandering hands in darkened rooms....very Renard


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

He needs to explain to these fuckers how parliament works FFS


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Good audience Q, Miliband should just admit that he'll try to govern as a minority gov would win him far more respect.


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> He needs to explain to these fuckers how parliament works FFS



That's the problem, parliament isn't covered in soap operas and shite about celebs!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> That's the problem, parliament isn't covered in soap operas and shite about celebs!


True, but he could have said that his QS will reflect his manifesto and, if other parties want to support that/agree with him, so be it....all the better. gets round the 'coalition' shit with SNP etc.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> He needs to explain to these fuckers how parliament works FFS


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> True, but he could have said that his QS will reflect his manifesto and, if other parties want to support that/agree with him, so be it....all the better. gets round the 'coalition' shit with SNP etc.



He almost said that. It's his position I think. But I guess he's under orders not say it...yet.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

miliband looking strong here on green policies. Take that lucas


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

tbf Miliband has sustained through this better than cameron's 'premature ejaculation' performance


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Oh poor fucking employers.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

I thought I hated entrepreneurs before this but my god


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

where have they found all these small business wankers?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

They want to have their fucking state subsidised cake and whine about it and shit on it don't they


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

it's like some sort of poujadist convention for the (entitled) hard of thinking


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

chilango said:


> where have they found all these small business wankers?


God knows, just tell them to fuck off.


----------



## oryx (Apr 30, 2015)

'a ban on zero hours contracts will stop me expanding my small business'.

Tough shit, you c**t!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> God knows, just tell them to fuck off.


Bone should have been on this


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Much better on the ZHC


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

(((employers)))


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 30, 2015)

Is the audience full of deluded twats?
What planet are these poltroons from?


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)

He's a fucking robot!


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Why is he appeasing these wankers?

(Obviously he's really on their side, but it's not winning him votes)


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Ha! Ha! Almost fell over!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Comedy exit


----------



## peterkro (Apr 30, 2015)

Genuine frothing lunatic,good show.


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

So nearly a Kinnock in the sea moment...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Bingo


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Sorry


----------



## friedaweed (Apr 30, 2015)

Didnae realise all the Q timers were on this thread


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 30, 2015)

Cleggys on, fees first up!
Classic!


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

chilango said:


> So nearly a Kinnock in the sea moment...



Tabloid fodder tomorrow


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

rock and a hard place


----------



## xenon (Apr 30, 2015)

Who agrees with Nick now.


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)




----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

'would you welcome nic clegg'

yes, to a salt mine


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Lord Liam Byrne of Cuntshire for services to the vermin


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

his maoist free school dinners for kids project gets a mention early doors


----------



## oryx (Apr 30, 2015)

I can't decide whether to pack in watching this on the grounds that dense right wing audience aren't that likely to give Clegg an entertainingly hard time.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

SCUM


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

oryx said:


> I can't decide whether to pack in watching this on the grounds that dense right wing audience aren't that likely to give Clegg an entertainingly hard time.


His LBC 'training' will pay off...he's quite used to this sort of stuff now.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 30, 2015)

'Difficult decision' *drinks*


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Fuck that was actually a good question (about the fact that the students loans policy is going to cost money because people won't repay it), SME wankers to thick to realise it.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

LOOK AT ME I'M THE VOICE OF MODERATION TO IDIOTS


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

fairness


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

J Ed said:


> LOOK AT ME I'M THE VOICE OF MODERATION TO IDIOTS


Hey you should copyright that, libdems will bite your hand off for it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

Greece: sick man of europe. The libs saved us from such a fate. Vote urine yellow


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

did everyone else get that break in broadcast with the alien voices? lizard people?


----------



## xenon (Apr 30, 2015)

Radio's ahead of the TV. *Don't got a TV*


----------



## xenon (Apr 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> did everyone else get that break in broadcast with the alien voices? lizard people?



Hah yeah. Just thought it was my usual shit DAB reception.


----------



## xenon (Apr 30, 2015)

There goes again. Lizards!


----------



## oryx (Apr 30, 2015)

Yes - thought it was our aerial!


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Me too. Smart TV innit?


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> did everyone else get that break in broadcast with the alien voices? lizard people?



I have been trying to summon Posadist aliens all night...


----------



## oryx (Apr 30, 2015)

DP


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

even iplayer is trying to no platform clegg


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

He's boring them into submission


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)




----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

Ha ha!


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)

xenon said:


> Hah yeah. Just thought it was my usual shit DAB reception.



Nah it was reptilian lurchers mate dancing to the tune of swivel eyed hard working folk and that.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Sad to say Clegg is actually doing well on the coalition stuff.

Dimbleby doesn't actually seem to know how parliament works the twat.

"little children of today" vomit


----------



## oryx (Apr 30, 2015)

LOL at last question!


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Great! Best Q of the night


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 30, 2015)

'Mess we inherited' *drinks*


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

its not going to be you nick. Not you at all.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

this reminds


Dogsauce said:


> 'Mess we inherited' *drinks*


hic


----------



## miktheword (Apr 30, 2015)

I don't get that Miliband fucked this up. More relaxed than Cameron, and facing a hostile audience was a known - Lab HQ moaning yesterday that BBC had again bent over backwards to Tories and were going to flood it with their suppoorters (probably after loon comments after last debate, saying a typical lefty audience, farage etc). Lots of small business owners, few hard working people, but in the same way as farage was talking to the audience at home, so was Miliband.
For one of a few times, Labour has countered the over spending - Obama comment ..should have also used %age of GDP spent was same as Major..and that the idiotic Byrne letter was left by most outgoing chancellors to the nnew one.

But, overall, don't think this has gone bad for him.

The Sun already called it for Cameron at 6pm anyway.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

its like watching a thief beg you to be allowed to look after the keys again


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

"*Greece, Portugal and Spain" *...again


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 30, 2015)

Just got back from the pub. Fuck their debate, & fuck their tv


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 30, 2015)

'The mess', your uber rich mates caused by being greedy bastards, you soon to be unemployed sap.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Economic firestorm, fuckwit

Yeah this bloke is good


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Jesus these dumb fuck tories love him


----------



## chilango (Apr 30, 2015)

miktheword said:


> I don't get that Miliband fucked this up. More relaxed than Cameron, and facing a hostile audience was a known - Lab HQ moaning yesterday that BBC had again bent over backwards to Tories and were going to flood it with their suppoorters (probably after loon comments after last debate, saying a typical lefty audience, farage etc). Lots of small business owners, few hard working people, but in the same way as farage was talking to the audience at home, so was Miliband.
> For one of a few times, Labour has countered the over spending - Obama comment ..should have also used %age of GDP spent was same as Major..and that the idiotic Byrne letter was left by most outgoing chancellors to the nnew one.
> 
> But, overall, don't think this has gone bad for him.
> ...



I think Miliband did the opposite. Was far too busy appeasing the individual questioner and less about getting his message to the viewers at home.

But. Time will tell.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Just got back from the pub. Fuck their debate, & fuck their tv


Update cunt1, cunt 2, cunt3 with loads of cunts from Leeds


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

its actually a fairly assured performance from the penis, but then he is one who clearly buys his own shit wholesale


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 30, 2015)

Knackers to this I'm off to live on benefits in Greece!


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Update cunt1, cunt 2, cunt3 with loads of cunts from Leeds


Makes me ashamed to be a loiner


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Update cunt1, cunt 2, cunt3 with loads of cunts from Leeds



Cunts. I fucking knew it!


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Sprocket. said:


> Knackers to this I'm off to live on benefits in Greece!


I'd give it a few weeks if I were you


----------



## peterkro (Apr 30, 2015)

Sturgeon has won this debate without uttering a word.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Makes me ashamed to be a loiner


Don't get me wrong, I viscerally hate all vermin  but, as a southerner, I really don't like to hear such nasty shite coming out with northern accents. My problem, I know, but there it is...


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 30, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Update cunt1, cunt 2, cunt3 with loads of cunts from Harrogate and North Yorkshire



FTFY


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 30, 2015)

peterkro said:


> Sturgeon has won this debate without uttering a word.



Hurrah!


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

peterkro said:


> Sturgeon has won this debate without uttering a word.


I reckon so


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

oh here we go, fuck the doley refugees time


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Apr 30, 2015)

"Mr Miliband, will you purge the faction of your party that allowed criminals to ruin our economy with their tory policies? Would you support the prosecution of the last 2 Labour leaders for war crimes?"

2 more glaring questions no "journalist" has thought to ask in months of"debate ".

And I bet this this the first time Eastenders made way for something more depressing.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

God another loon, seven countries want to leave EU

Shit as it is Clegg is pretty doing well, the cunt


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 30, 2015)

Maybe the losers should have their tongues cut out with a stanley knife?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> And I bet this this the first time Eastenders made way for something more depressing.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Apr 30, 2015)

I'm going to bed.


----------



## weepiper (Apr 30, 2015)

peterkro said:


> Sturgeon has won this debate without uttering a word.


I didn't watch it but Scottish twitter has _exploded_ because Miliband said he'd give up government if it required any sort of deal with the SNP. Given that polls suggest we're going to return an SNP MP in almost every seat, he's basically said Scots shouldn't have any say in the government of the UK and he'd rather put the Tories back in than see that happen.


----------



## miktheword (Apr 30, 2015)

chilango said:


> I think Miliband did the opposite. Was far too busy appeasing the individual questioner and less about getting his message to the viewers at home.
> 
> But. Time will tell.






I definitely agree he did that, all the toe curling ;what was your name again?'...but he couldn't afford to be hostile to a hostile questioner - most were. I think that would go well with the sickly floating voter at home. Maybe I'm just surprised to hear those arguments (didn't over spend, rebalance economy, reasons welfare's risen, tax receipts fell etc from any one Labour, after five years..and without Nick Robinson moderating and explaining it..
Many at home will also be employed by those small business owners, wanting lower pay and zero hours..think it might resonate...or stop enough from going to the vermin..all that's needed  (in the next week anyway)


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

weepiper said:


> I didn't watch it but Scottish twitter has _exploded_ because Miliband said he'd give up government if it required any sort of deal with the SNP. Given that polls suggest we're going to return an SNP MP in almost every seat, he's basically said Scots shouldn't have any say in the government of the UK and he'd rather put the Tories back in than see that happen.


He basically defined a deal as a formal "Confidence and Supply Agreement".

Implicitly he was saying that he would govern as a Labour minority gov. IMO it was a mistake not to say that explicitly.


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

Redless Scare time


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

christ I've never wanted a drone strike more


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

thank fuck for that


----------



## weepiper (Apr 30, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> He basically defined a deal as a formal "Confidence and Supply Agreement".


----------



## treelover (Apr 30, 2015)

This is a very right wing audience indeed, they seem to have gone full circle from what was imo, a liberal audience of the last debate.


----------



## Sprocket. (Apr 30, 2015)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Maybe the losers should have their tongues cut out with a stanley knife?



Stanley knives, made in China, assembled in a shed near Rotherham!


----------



## J Ed (Apr 30, 2015)

This is the first one of these that I have been sober for and I regret it


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

YAY THE EU


----------



## oryx (Apr 30, 2015)

'sorry to cut you short Mr Clegg....'

Don't be, honest!


----------



## Buckaroo (Apr 30, 2015)

Laugh out loud comedy next etc...


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

weepiper said:


>



Yeah but Sturgeon has already said that the nationalists will support his QS.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

J Ed said:


> This is the first one of these that I have been sober for and I regret it


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 30, 2015)

Yorkshire, home of the nation's most charmless and spiteful small business owners.


----------



## friedaweed (Apr 30, 2015)

The only good thing about that program was it's Yorkshire accent


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

weepiper said:


>



Sure but a deal meaning a _formal_ C&S arrangement, despite twitter fools going off on one it's nothing he's not said previously.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Yorkshire, home of the nation's most charmless and spiteful small business owners.


Where's Al Queda when you need them


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Yorkshire, home of the nation's most charmless and spiteful small business owners.


No advert for the county, but GOC has no monopoly on such small-minded selfish cunts


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Boulton, I know...but...


----------



## weepiper (Apr 30, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Sure but a deal meaning a _formal_ C&S arrangement, despite twitter fools going off on one it's nothing he's not said previously.


Like I say I didn't see it so don't know exactly word for word what was said, but it's not just 'twitter fools', it's well-respected journalists too.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Like I say I didn't see it so don't know exactly word for word what was said, but it's not just 'twitter fools', it's well-respected journalists too.



It's not Miliband's call, is it? The nationalists either put Labour in or it's the fucking vermin.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 30, 2015)




----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


>



MattHan COCK


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

weepiper said:


> Like I say I didn't see it so don't know exactly word for word what was said, but it's not just 'twitter fools', it's well-respected journalists too.


Well I wasn't excluding journalists from the first category.

To anyone with an once of sense he was quite clearly saying that Labour will govern as a minority party (which despite idiots you've quoted has been patently obvious for ages). Now I think not saying this explicitly was a mistake in that (a) I think he would have got points for been clear and honest and (b) when Labour's QS does get passed with SNP support he'll be attacked for making a "deal" with the SNP.

But the fact is he didn't say anything like what that second twitter link says.


Really the number of political commentators that don't understand how the British system works is absurd, Dimbleby came out with something similar.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 30, 2015)

Any discussions in advance of a finance bill between Miliband and the Scottish Nationalists could be called a deal.

He's painting himself into something of a corner unless he's betting on the SNP factor making a repeat of the current coalition impossible, leaving Clegg forced to work with him,and the SNP forced to be either wreckers or abstainers.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 30, 2015)

Watching the news 24 footage now in the Tiled Hall cafe, all the cunts are there, Osborne, Hague, Fallon, Reeves. I'd say a small tactical strike would do a lot of good, but don't think I could stomach the damage to the ornate decor.


----------



## treelover (Apr 30, 2015)

> That is a good point, says Cameron. They need support. But it is not right that at the age of 18 you can sign on and get a flat. Other countries in Europe have abolished youth unemployment. We can do the same thing.



What countries are they I wonder?


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

Dogsauce said:


> Watching the news 24 footage now in the Tiled Hall cafe, all the cunts are there, Osborne, Hague, Fallon, Reeves. I'd say a small tactical strike would do a lot of good, but don't think I could stomach the damage to the ornate decor.


That cafe is fucking beautiful, just hope they blench it down after all the scum have left (or even better while they're in)


----------



## rekil (Apr 30, 2015)

We're coming from another galaxy for your assets m8.


----------



## CNT36 (Apr 30, 2015)

Bloody communisms.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> He basically defined a deal as a formal "Confidence and Supply Agreement".
> 
> Implicitly he was saying that he would govern as a Labour minority gov. IMO it was a mistake not to say that explicitly.


I didn't watch the debate, so I didn't see any context defining what he meant by "deal", but the clip I've now seen several times that the BBC and ITV have says: "if it meant not being in government not having a coalition, not doing a deal, then so be it"


http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015...t-be-in-government-than-make-a-deal-with-snp/

That sounds to me like "I'd rather not be on government than do a deal with the SNP".


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

If that clip is played on TVs in Scotland it'll look exactly like he's saying "I'd rather let the Tories govern than work with the SNP". It's going to go down badly. 

Maybe he specifically meant formal arrangements that he's already ruled out as we know. But it's not how it'll play.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

And sure enough:


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

at this point, I don't think miliband gives a shit how it plays in scotland.

I did have a chuckle to myself about his absolutely no deals thing. When the snp has its seats what is he going to do? tell them they cannot vote with labour on ledge? Deliberately spike ledge that might attract an snp backing? oh what a wicked web they have woven.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (Apr 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> at this point, I don't think miliband gives a shit how it plays in scotland.
> .



He turned to camera, tried to fix the rebellious Scots with his angriest stare, and told them that they were being very naughty indeed and that the only way they could get a Labour government was to vote Labour. Odd way to use up most of one of his 28 minutes if he didn't give a shit.


----------



## redsquirrel (Apr 30, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> If that clip is played on TVs in Scotland it'll look exactly like he's saying "I'd rather let the Tories govern than work with the SNP". It's going to go down badly.
> 
> Maybe he specifically meant formal arrangements that he's already ruled out as we know. But it's not how it'll play.


TBH I don't disagree with any of that, as I said above IMO it was a stupid move and I've no doubt it'll play badly in Scotland nor that the SNP will use it. 

But it's patent rubbish for Severin Carrell (what a fucking name) to come out with this bollocks



			
				Severin Carrell said:
			
		

> The crucial thing about Ed Miliband’s emphatic line on “no deal at any cost” is that he’s ruling out any attempt to sabotage a viable Tory minority government by forming an anti-Tory bloc with the SNP - a proposal that Nicola Sturgeon, Alex Salmond and deputy leader Stewart Hosie have been pushing hard.


----------



## weepiper (Apr 30, 2015)

He's thrown Scottish Labour under the bus. Gambled on it playing well in England, Scotland's a lost cause.


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> at this point, I don't think miliband gives a shit how it plays in scotland.
> 
> I did have a chuckle to myself about his absolutely no deals thing. When the snp has its seats what is he going to do? tell them they cannot vote with labour on ledge? Deliberately spike ledge that might attract an snp backing? oh what a wicked web they have woven.


I think you're right; I think they've written off Scottish seats. He thinks he had to appear tough to counter scares and win the seats he needs in England. 

But those Scottish votes that were soft SNP, with long family histories of voting Labour, votes they might have won back on the day as they wavered in the polling booth. Those votes have just hardened. 

You're right, though, he can't stop the SNP giving him his majority. He knows that. But he overdid the language. He fucked up.


----------



## DotCommunist (Apr 30, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> He turned to camera, tried to fix the rebellious Scots with his angriest stare, and told them that they were being very naughty indeed and that the only way they could get a Labour government was to vote Labour. Odd way to use up most of one of his 28 minutes if he didn't give a shit.


not that odd if you are trying to position as a labour leader whohas insisted he will not be under a tartan heel


----------



## danny la rouge (Apr 30, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> TBH I don't disagree with any of that, as I said above IMO it was a stupid move and I've no doubt it'll play badly in Scotland nor that the SNP will use it.
> 
> But it's patent rubbish for Severin Carrell (what a fucking name) to come out with this bollocks


We all know which house the Sorting Hat put Severin in, and he may be wrong about how House majorities will work in effect, but Ed hasn't helped clear that up. The impression he's given (or the clip has given) is that he's just replied to the SNP challenge - "will you let us help you lock the Tories out of government?" - that he wouldn't.


----------



## brogdale (Apr 30, 2015)

weepiper said:


> He's thrown Scottish Labour under the bus. Gambled on it playing well in England, Scotland's a lost cause.


mercy killing


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 30, 2015)

It's the shitty press that has made the potential of a pact such an issue, Tories have played this one quite well despite the hysteria and hyperbole as it's forced the conversation onto this subject rather than policy or stronger ground for labour. The press may not change people's minds as easily as some condescendingly make out, but they can set the agenda and control stuff that way. That's also why we got to hear all about the favourite tabloid trope of  'immigrants on benefits' again.


----------



## SE25 (May 1, 2015)

Started watching it on the iplayers. Cameroid has annoyed fuck out of me in the first question. This is going to be a miserable 90 mins, isn't it?

He's such a bland paigon.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 1, 2015)

weepiper said:


> He's thrown Scottish Labour under the bus. Gambled on it playing well in England, *Scotland's a lost cause*.



For Labour, that's been the case for a good few  months (or many more months) by now though hasn't it?

I get the Scotland-specific reasons, seriously I do.

But even if Labour came up with any _half-way, semi-sound_ points, few in Scotland, surely, would  want to pay much/any attention by now??


----------



## Celyn (May 1, 2015)

Some would - I can't quite believe the SNP-sweeps-the-board thing.  Labour is still in with a shout in Glasgow North East, possibly Glasgow East (tho' I hear the SNP being optimistic there), perhaps one or two of the "My grandfather voted Labour etc" Lanarkshire places, if recent shenanigans can be forgotten.

OK, I'm just pondering out loud here, but if Labour got out some of its habitual residual vote (plus maybe a few unhappy LibDems), that, plus getting the "Daily Record" to do another bit of "evil SNP will kill and eat your babies, your kittens and your Barbie dolls", might keep them a few seats, so it might have been a bit silly of Miliband.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 1, 2015)

Some recent media-bollocks talk of 'SNP about to sweep the board with every single seat in Scotland' looks a little bit exaggerated to me. 

Notice that I said 'a little bit' ...


----------



## Celyn (May 1, 2015)

Yeah, but I wonder if there's a bit of "build up to knock down".  Then again, so many polls ... well, this election count is going to be interesting and a bit nerve-wracking.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 1, 2015)

A landslide's a landslide in Scotland, even if Labour retain merely ten or thereabouts seats only ...

My cunning plan South of the border though next Thursday, will be to commit myself to the Election Party ....


----------



## ska invita (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I think you're right; I think they've written off Scottish seats. He thinks he had to appear tough to counter scares and win the seats he needs in England.
> 
> But those Scottish votes that were soft SNP, with long family histories of voting Labour, votes they might have won back on the day as they wavered in the polling booth. Those votes have just hardened.
> 
> You're right, though, he can't stop the SNP giving him his majority. He knows that. But he overdid the language. He fucked up.


isnt partly the idea to say to soft voters, dont think you can vote SNP and still get Labour - if you want Labour you have to vote Labour - you cant have your cake and eat it
I can see how it can look really bad though
(havent kept up with thread ~ sorry if repeating)


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (May 1, 2015)

it comes back to one of the few real Libdem successes over the last five years - to push the idea that morally it is only the party that has the largest share of the seats and vote that gets to form the government - and on current figures it's very unlikely Labour can do that. Also I think Labour are very aware of the dangers of trying to form an unpopular minority government that could be brought down very quickly or be stuck as a lame duck for five years taking very unpopular decisions. 

It is also correct to think that at the moment the cards will fall where they will in Scotland - but there is still everything to play for in the English swing seats - most of which are between Tories and Labour.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> But even if Labour came up with any _half-way, semi-sound_ points, few in Scotland, surely, would  want to pay much/any attention by now??


It's true that a lot wouldn't. Especially amongst people who voted Yes. 

But the majority voted No, and there is a lot of tolerance for Labour in a lot of communities. There are a lot of people who could be swayed back quite easily. 

I get the idea that "if you want a Labour government you have to vote Labour" but if that was the hand he was trying to play, I think he fucked it up. Because what he actually seemed to say was "even if you do vote Labour and we're in reaching distance of number ten, I'll let the Tories in rather than do a deal with the SNP". 

That's a problem in Scotland because one of the themes here is: "we've voted Labour at every general election for years, but if enough people in England vote Tory we get a Tory government anyway. What we need is a strong voice that will protect our interests which doesn't rely on England voting the same way."

Now, whatever you may think of that argument,  it's one that has a lot to do with the poll ratings for SNP.  And if Miliband is saying "we might not even form a Labour government if we're in with a shout", he's played right into it.


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

Yeah. I think that's exactly the card Miliband was trying play.

Problem is I don't know who was playing to.

I haven't come across any "fear" of SNP power down here (and I'd guess those who I know who might would vote Tory anyway). At most there's some vague support for the vague idea that Labour won't be able to govern without the support of other parties. A kind of instinctive "check and balance".

Last nights posturing won't have impressed this audience. 

Frankly I'm not sure who it will have won over.

People are smarter than that, and saw straight through it.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> Yeah. I think that's exactly the card Miliband was trying play.
> 
> Problem is I don't know who was playing to.
> 
> ...


Yup.

And he's also put himself in the position that if he does need SNP votes to pass his Queens Speech (which they'll do anyway, as they're not going to pass a Tory one) he will have to get into semantics when the Tory press attacks him.  "That's not a deal it's an agreement".  He'll be fighting for credibility as well as legitimacy from the word go.


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

He really should have stuck with the "if other parties support us that's up to them" line.


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

...you could see the tired old strategy scripts that haven't been updated for the "new multi-party politics" looking very transparent last night. Miliband especially, but also with Cameron.

Nobody is buying the "we aim for a majority" bullshit. It's really backfiring imo.


----------



## J Ed (May 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> not that odd if you are trying to position as a labour leader whohas insisted he will not be under a tartan heel



It's funny how all these unionists who claim to love Scotland being in Britain so much are all so incredibly keen to portray the Scottish and those they elect as being some sort of 'other' or fifth column out to undermine us.

The amount of anti-Scottish racism these days has definitely gone up massively, it's being encouraged from the top and is actually filtering down to quite a few people. A lot of it under  the guise of being against an imagined Scottish racism, it reminds me a bit of people who frame their misogyny as 'Mens Rights'. If I were Scottish I wouldn't want any part of this weird dysfunctional relationship.


----------



## weepiper (May 1, 2015)

J Ed said:


> It's funny how all these unionists who claim to love Scotland being in Britain so much are all so incredibly keen to portray the Scottish and those they elect as being some sort of 'other' or fifth column out to undermine us.
> 
> The amount of anti-Scottish racism these days has definitely gone up massively, it's being encouraged from the top and is actually filtering down to quite a few people. A lot of it under  the guise of being against an imagined Scottish racism, it reminds me a bit of people who frame their misogyny as 'Mens Rights'. If I were Scottish I wouldn't want any part of this weird dysfunctional relationship.


I'm glad people outside Scotland can aee this too. Good description.


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It's true that a lot wouldn't. Especially amongst people who voted Yes.
> 
> But the majority voted No, and there is a lot of tolerance for Labour in a lot of communities. There are a lot of people who could be swayed back quite easily.
> 
> ...


Yep, I'm sure that Axlerod thought he'd got a 'dual-purpose' line that would have resonance on both sides of the border. Miliband's strenuous rejection of the nationalists was clearly intended to dilute the perceived concerns of English marginal swing voters and, at the same time, attempt to scare the lost Scot's Lab 'core' back into line.

What a dumb tactic.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Yep, I'm sure that Axlerod thought he'd got a 'dual-purpose' line that would have resonance on both sides of the border. Miliband's strenuous rejection of the nationalists was clearly intended to dilute the perceived concerns of English marginal swing voters and, at the same time, attempt to scare the lost Scot's Lab 'core' back into line.
> 
> What a dumb tactic.


It comes across more as: "behave yourselves and get back in your box". 

What they forget is that while Labour MPs may loath the SNP, the electorate don't.


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

The people are ahead of the strategists in terms of how to get the best out of this election it seems...


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

_*If *_Miliband get's the chance to go back on his word and lead a minority dependent upon the nationalists, the RW press will ensure that this 'broken pledge' will hang around him like Clegg's fees promise. 

It sounds like one act in the Pasokification 'play'.


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

What do people mean by "pasokification"?


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> What do people mean by "pasokification"?


Neo-liberal 'social democratic' party 2009 = 36%, 2014 =8%.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> _*If *_Miliband get's the chance to go back on his word and lead a minority dependent upon the nationalists, the RW press will ensure that this 'broken pledge' will hang around him like Clegg's fees promise.
> 
> It sounds like one act in the *Pasokification* 'play'.



when the possibility of his party letting the fucking tories in rather than vote with the SNP was discussed yesterday thats the word that popped into my head. Surely their strategists must see how that would play out.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> What do people mean by "pasokification"?


Pasok in greece worked with the greek equivalent of the vermin to lock out syzria, basically lost all cred with their voters, in the end I think only the stalinists (KKE) still supported them


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Neo-liberal 'social democratic party 2009 = 36%, 2014 =8%.



Ta.

I would guess that Labour allowing (or at least being seen to allow) a Conservative Party that has failed to win the election to form the government - for the second successive election - might face very serious questions about its future viability.


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> when the possibility of his party letting the fucking tories in rather than vote with the SNP was discussed yesterday thats the word that popped into my head. Surely their strategists must see how that would play out.


Yeah, and what popped into my (beer addled) mind was...if I was a nationalist I'd be tempted to turn around and say..."well OK...fuck you then...we won't even take our seats in your 'so-called' UK parliament" Do a shinner!


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> Ta.
> 
> I would guess that Labour allowing (or at least being seen to allow) a Conservative Party that has failed to win the election to form the government - for the second successive election - might face very serious questions about its future viability.


Yep, and Leanne started to ask those questions last night...


> She said: I think what the leader of the opposition has said tonight is highly irresponsible. There are enough of us potentially to band together to stop another Conservative government.
> 
> “*I would have thought given the people he is meant to represent that that kind of deal would be quite high up on his agenda.* Ruling out any kind of deal with the SNP is irresponsible. I would have thought he wold have wanted to work with others to stop the Tories. I’m prepared to do that.”


----------



## two sheds (May 1, 2015)

Successful tactic then all in all, the tories driving a wedge between labour and SNP. Deflects from the much more scary idea of tory/UKIP alliance.


----------



## bemused (May 1, 2015)

two sheds said:


> Successful tactic then all in all, the tories driving a wedge between labour and SNP. Deflects from the much more scary idea of tory/UKIP alliance.



I can't see UKIP getting enough seats to carry any actual power, they'll get a chunky proportion of the so-called popular vote but won't have more than a handful of seats if they are lucky. 

I'm interested how the Labour Party are planning to row back from the no-deal position they have when they try and form a government - I assume the have some slimy words already prepared - along the line of 'best for the country'


----------



## two sheds (May 1, 2015)

"I had my fingers crossed behind my back"


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

Just briefly had on Radio Scotland's morning phone in.  There was a Labour voter on saying he hoped everyone in Scotland would vote Labour in the end, but that it didn't look like it was going to happen.  He went on to say, that being the case Ed Miliband needs to "draw back from the cliff". He said he was very concerned about what he heard Ed say.  He was annoyed that Miliband was saying he'd rather let the Tories in than deal with the SNP.  Gary Robertson said that isn't quite what he said, he said he'd rather not be in government.  Labour voter replied, what's the difference?  He said we need to keep the Tories out, and Ed needs to accept that there will be a majority of SNP MPs in Scotland and he'll have to work with them against the common enemy.  "This isn't West Side Story" he said, (refering to the Labour vs SNP mentality Ed had demonstrated) and Ed needs to recognise that.

That's how Labour supporters here are seeing it.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> Nobody is buying the "we aim for a majority" bullshit. It's really backfiring imo.


Agreed, it's just utterly moronic. I mean I can see that you need to keep on geeing up your team/supporters but you can do that without looking a fucking dishonest spineless berk


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Agreed, it's just utterly moronic. I mean I can see that you need to keep on geeing up your team/supporters but you can do that without looking a fucking dishonest spineless berk



My guess is that it's just one of those "rules" of electioneering spin that the Parties' strategists are slavishly following.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 1, 2015)

Just been skimming the BBC. Not very clear to me exactly what Ed Miliband said last night re the SNP -- is there a direct quote? 

Cheers folks -- in a bit of a rush just now.


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Just been skimming the BBC. Not very clear to me exactly what Ed Miliband said last night re the SNP -- is there a direct quote?
> 
> Cheers folks -- in a bit of a rush just now.


 



			
				Millipede said:
			
		

> "I am not going to have a Labour government if it means deals or coalitions with the Scottish National Party"


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Just been skimming the BBC. Not very clear to me exactly what Ed Miliband said last night re the SNP -- is there a direct quote?
> 
> Cheers folks -- in a bit of a rush just now.






			
				Miliband said:
			
		

> I am not going to have a Labour government if it means deals or coalitions with the Scottish National Party.





> If the price of having a Labour government was coalition or a deal with the Scottish National Party, it's not going to happen.


----------



## treelover (May 1, 2015)

Gonna be a lead weight around him, I understand why he said it, but its inevitable he will have to work with them if labour are to govern.


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

treelover said:


> Gonna be a lead weight around him, I understand why he said it, but its inevitable he will have to work with them if labour are to govern.


 
To some extent he could use them to get progressive policies through since they would need to be careful about voting against such policies.

If he was so inclined, obviously.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Just been skimming the BBC. Not very clear to me exactly what Ed Miliband said last night re the SNP -- is there a direct quote?
> 
> Cheers folks -- in a bit of a rush just now.


http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015...t-be-in-government-than-make-a-deal-with-snp/


----------



## DotCommunist (May 1, 2015)

English labour voters- how do you feel about a rich man who's promised to let us all have another five fucking years of tory bootheel eating rather than work with a party a gnats chuff hair to the left of blairism?


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

And here's Andy Burnham saying a minority Labour administration would "of course" be prepared to talk to the SNP in order to get its business through Parliament.

https://www.politicshome.com/party-...vernment-would-talk-snp-andy-burnham-confirms

So, they'd _deal with_ them, just not _do a deal_.

Clear?


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

Somebody will have had a major bollocking this morning!


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> So, they'd _deal with_ them, just not _do a deal_.
> 
> Clear?


 
Actually, it doesn't sound that ambiguous.


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> English labour voters- how do you feel about a rich man who's promised to let us all have another five fucking years of tory bootheel eating rather than work with a party a gnats chuff hair to the left of blairism?



Which party is that? Do you mean the single-issue nationalist party, traditionally rightist, which has borrowed anti-capitalist clothes in order to attract former Labour voters? In that case, you'll have to be clearer, as there are two of those in the mix right now - UKIP and SNP.  And neither is particularly attractive.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 1, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Which party is that? Do you mean the single-issue nationalist party, traditionally rightist, which has borrowed anti-capitalist clothes in order to attract former Labour voters? In that case, you'll have to be clearer, as there are two of those in the mix right now - UKIP and SNP.  And neither is particularly attractive.


so yes, even in borrowed clothes still a gnats chuff hair to the left of blairism.

note you won't answer the question. with no illusions


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> note you won't answer the question. with no illusions



I think Miliband's position is pretty sensible. He could have explained it better last night to the baying mob of mill-owning six-fingered grotesques, but he didn't have ideal circumstances in which to do so.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

8ball said:


> Actually, it doesn't sound that ambiguous.


It'll come across as sly, forked-tongue sophistry.  If Ed intended to look like a resolute straight-talker, if Burnham is now right about what he _actually_ meant, then he'll come across as the opposite: a devious, slippery equivocator.


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> It'll come across as sly, forked-tongue sophistry.  If Ed intended to look like a resolute straight-talker, if Burnham is now right about what he _actually_ meant, then he'll come across as the opposite: a devious, slippery equivocator.


 
He will if there is any coalition or power-sharing arrangement.  I don't see where Burnham said anything about that happening.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

8ball said:


> He will if there is any coalition or power-sharing arrangement.  I don't see where Burnham said anything about that happening.


Well all know that the SNP wasn't offering a coalition; they don't want one.  Neither was Labour offering one.  Various other formal arrangements were ruled out by each party.

But the fact remains that in order to get their legislation through, there will need to be _an arrangement_ involving the SNP.  If Ed is reduced to saying "that's an arrangement, not a deal", he'll look like a slippery twat.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 1, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> baying mob of mill-owning six-fingered grotesques


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Which party is that? Do you mean the single-issue nationalist party, traditionally rightist, which has borrowed anti-capitalist clothes in order to attract former Labour voters? In that case, you'll have to be clearer, as there are two of those in the mix right now - UKIP and SNP.  And neither is particularly attractive.


The SNP isn't "traditionally rightist", it's traditionally _portrayed by Labour as rightist_.


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> ...the fact remains that in order to get their legislation through, there will need to be _an arrangement_ involving the SNP.


 
I'd agree whatever is meant by 'an arrangement' would need to be loose to the extent of discussing votes on particular policies on an ad hoc basis, or it would indeed look slippery.

The gamble Labour are making is that Sturgeon would not be willing to burn off the current good will towards her by voting against policies they currently have in common (or similar to common policies) with Labour.  It's a trade-off between lost votes in Scotland and trying to pull in marginal seats in England/Wales.

edit:  What Miliband absolutely won't be able to afford is (on the off chance he ends up in No. 10) is compromising on stated manifesto points to appease the SNP.  That would be seen as doing a total Clegg.


----------



## belboid (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> The SNP isn't "traditionally rightist", it's traditionally _portrayed by Labour as rightist_.


it was _founded _on a fairly rightist basis, but it hasn't been so for at least 40 years.  Of course its leftism is overstated as well, it doesn't really take much to be left of Murphy's Labour


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

belboid said:


> it was _founded _on a fairly rightist basis, but it hasn't been so for at least 40 years.  Of course its leftism is overstated as well, it doesn't really take much to be left of Murphy's Labour


Indeed. There's no advantage to inaccuracy, though. The SNP has been social democratic for decades. That's way to the right of "leftist", but neither is it "rightist".


----------



## Wilf (May 1, 2015)

All this stuff with the snp _is_ a kind of strategic mistake by Miliband. Should probably have taken the risk and gone with 'we'll work with progressive forces, anyone who wants social justice.. but I won't countenance the break up....'.  But this is really the endgame of New Labour, sharing Cameron's essential view of the world - as well as their monumental fuck up over several years in Scotland.  He's got very little room to manoeuvre because of who he is.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

8ball said:


> edit:  What Miliband absolutely won't be able to afford is (on the off chance he ends up in No. 10) is compromising on stated manifesto points to appease the SNP.  That would be seen as doing a total Clegg.


Indeed, but the SNP don't want a close arrangement that means any damaging compromise on their part. They have no desire to be the Lib Dems in this arrangement. They want to be free to pick and choose. (And frankly it'll be mostly pick. Look at their manifestos; the degree of concordance belies their animosity).

We know all this, it's just that Miliband's performance gave a different impression.


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Indeed, but the SNP don't want a close arrangement that means any damaging compromise on their part. They have no desire to be the Lib Dems in this arrangement.


 
That's not the impression I got from Sturgeon's overtures towards Miliband.

But anyway, if the 'arrangement' is just voting in common where goals are in common I don't see how Miliband is going back on anything he has said.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

8ball said:


> That's not the impression I got from Sturgeon's overtures towards Miliband.
> 
> But anyway, if the 'arrangement' is just voting in common where goals are in common I don't see how Miliband is going back on anything he has said.


Her intention was to see if he'd paint himself into the corner he's just painted himself into.

"Will you let me help you lock Cameron out of number ten?" Is what she said. Her actual words. 

His reply is going to be portrayed as "no".

And I'm sure she didn't actually expect that.


----------



## weepiper (May 1, 2015)

belboid said:


> it was _founded _on a fairly rightist basis


errrr...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Labour_Party_(1888)


----------



## weepiper (May 1, 2015)

The SNP are not a 'single issue party' either. A single issue party that's been running a country for 8 years?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> Yeah. I think that's exactly the card Miliband was trying play.
> 
> Problem is I don't know who was playing to.
> 
> ...



The only people who fear (or need fear) the SNP south of the border is English politicians. The idea of a supposedly subsidiary (to the mind of many unionism-inclined Tories, anyway) nation having leverage on UK policy is causing apoplexy in elements of the political class, and a good thing too!


----------



## Maurice Picarda (May 1, 2015)

It's not running a country when you're only accountable for spending money, rather than raising it. It's more like running a local authority, which all sorts of weirdos do.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 1, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> I think Miliband's position is pretty sensible. He could have explained it better last night to the baying mob of mill-owning six-fingered grotesques, but he didn't have ideal circumstances in which to do so.



As the owner of a child labour-using blacking mill yourself, did you attend, along with your fellow inbreds and acromegaly sufferers?


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Her intention was to see if he'd paint himself into the corner he's just painted himself into.


 
This seems doubtful.



danny la rouge said:


> "Will you let me help you lock Cameron out of number ten?" Is what she said. Her actual words.
> 
> His reply is going to be portrayed as "no".
> 
> And I'm sure she didn't actually expect that.


 
She already said she would not join up with the Tories, so jumping at a coalition deal could be seen as a poor use of political capital.
She is not as popular South of the border and his reply will be interpreted as many as simply denying an audacious attempt at a power grab. 

It will, nevertheless, be curtains for Miliband and is coterie if the gamble leads to 5 more years of Cameron, though.


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

No deals with Plaid either according to the BBC.


----------



## belboid (May 1, 2015)

weepiper said:


> errrr...
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Labour_Party_(1888)


who merged with the right-wing Scottish Party to form the SNP.  Centrist is probably fairer.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

8ball said:


> She already said she would not join up with the Tories, so jumping at a coalition deal could be seen as a poor use of political capital.


Who is jumping, him or her? Neither side is interested in coalition.


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Who is jumping, him or her? Neither side is interested in coalition.


 
Him.  As in who would be doing the jumping in that sentence.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

8ball said:


> Him.  As in who would be doing the jumping in that sentence.


Ok. But since the SNP have said coalition isn't on the table, and he later superfluously said he wouldn't go into coalition with them, why did he feel the need for last night's rhetoric?  

He should have stuck to "I can't stop them supporting our legislation if they want to". 

He cocked up.


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Ok. But since the SNP have said coalition isn't on the table, and he later superfluously said he wouldn't go into coalition with them, why did he feel the need for last night's rhetoric?


 
Largely because not everybody is watching every single thing that happens.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

8ball said:


> Largely because not everybody is watching every single thing that happens.


Not what I meant. I meant, why not say the same again? Why go for this: 

http://www.itv.com/news/update/2015...t-be-in-government-than-make-a-deal-with-snp/

That sounds like he's saying not just no coalition, but nothing at all, zip, nada, zero. I'd rather not be in government. 

He might as well have said "I'm going to pass a law to stop myself from talking to them". 

What he's responding to is the indignation in the Tory press that he might be propped up by the SNP. He tried to sound tough and say "no way". But yes way, it *will* happen. 

He should have stuck to his old line: "that's up to them."


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 1, 2015)

treelover said:


> This is a very right wing audience indeed, they seem to have gone full circle from what was imo, a liberal audience of the last debate.



Stuffed with tory sock puppet scum like this vile piece of fucking shit of course:

https://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/20...-who-took-down-ed-miliband-more-dirty-tricks/

Some repugnant little shit who's the CEO of a Marketing company which she set up with a tory vermin MP who was fist bumping Gideon before hand pretends she's an 'undecided voter' (maybe she is actually - between UKIP and the tories). 

When the thick scum in the audience applauded Corporal Clegg's deluded self-description of his Quisling propping up of the Bullingdon Club reunion of 2010 as 'plucky and brave' I thought 'fuck this shit' and turned it off. 'Plucky and brave'? What a deluded cunt, he's less Scrappy Doo and more Shaggy (from Scooby not the pop-reggae sensation, although 'it wasn't me' would be a good theme tune for his deluded shit sell-out party).


----------



## Jeff Robinson (May 1, 2015)

Really hope "Cleggy" loses his seat: that'll be the 2015 Portillo moment!


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> That sounds like he's saying not just no coalition, but nothing at all, zip, nada, zero. I'd rather not be in government.


 
He was pretty clear it was a no to watering down any commitments or sharing power. 
But yes, part of the reason for this gamble to blunt the effect of what the Tory press is up to in my view.



danny la rouge said:


> He might as well have said "I'm going to pass a law to stop myself from talking to them".


 
What's with all this "passing laws to stop me doing A, B, C" business that's been going on? 
If you can pass a law you can change a law.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 1, 2015)

8ball said:


> He was pretty clear it was a no to watering down any commitments or sharing power.
> But yes, part of the reason for this gamble to blunt the effect of what the Tory press is up to in my view.



Which demonstrates the power of the press (on behalf of the tories) in making an issue of something that most people outside of Scotland probably don't give that much of a fuck about.  Dancing on their strings like a fucking puppet.  It's not strength or 'leadership'.  It's the opposite of it in fact.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 1, 2015)

Jeff Robinson said:


> Stuffed with tory sock puppet scum like this vile piece of fucking shit of course:
> 
> https://sturdyblog.wordpress.com/20...-who-took-down-ed-miliband-more-dirty-tricks/
> 
> Some repugnant little shit who's the CEO of a Marketing company which she set up with a tory vermin MP who was fist bumping Gideon before hand pretends she's an 'undecided voter' (maybe she is actually - between UKIP and the tories). <snip>



Wonder how many other Tory shills were in the audience under false pretences?

Has the smell of something organised about it ...


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

8ball said:


> He was pretty clear it was a no to watering down any commitments or sharing power.


Let's say he's not the largest party but he knows he can form a government because the SNP and Plaid will vote with him and against the Tories, what should he do? Go to the Queen, or say to Cameron: "it's all yours"?

Because it sounds like he said the latter. That's his problem. 



> What's with all this "passing laws to stop me doing A, B, C" business that's been going on?
> If you can pass a law you can change a law.


It's Clegg's fault. He spoiled "pledges" for everyone.


----------



## Dogsauce (May 1, 2015)

Bernie Gunther said:


> Wonder how many other Tory shills were in the audience under false pretences?
> 
> Has the smell of something organised about it ...



It doesn't matter really because he still should have been able to handle the question, regardless of who was asking.  The 5000 small business leader's letter was a transparent and clumsy stunt organised and collated by central office and presented as some sort of grass roots support, and it wouldn't have harmed him to point this out (maybe in politer language).  On economic stuff he could also have pointed out that the tories inherited a growing economy recovering from the recession and choked it for another three or four years.  The facts will stand him up on this.


----------



## Bernie Gunther (May 1, 2015)

I don't care about Milliband, but I'm interested if there's any evidence of organised manipulation of state broadcaster media events.


----------



## Celyn (May 1, 2015)

treelover said:


> Gonna be a lead weight around him, I understand why he said it, but its inevitable he will have to work with them if labour are to govern.



Lead weight or an ALBA-tross.  (Gets coat)


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Let's say he's not the largest party but he knows he can form a government because the SNP and Plaid will vote with him and against the Tories, what should he do? Go to the Queen, or say to Cameron: "it's all yours"?
> 
> Because it sounds like he said the latter.


 
Yep, that's exactly the gamble he's making.


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

Are Labour (and I'm just thinking out loud here, so excuse me if I'm way off beam!) planning for a 2nd election here? Allowing the Tories to form a shit minority government, and then bring it down in the hope that a 2nd election will see voters returning from the SNP/PC/Greens?


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> Are Labour (and I'm just thinking out loud here, so excuse me if I'm way off beam!) planning for a 2nd election here? Allowing the Tories to form a shit minority government, and then bring it down in the hope that a 2nd election will see voters returning from the SNP/PC/Greens?


Interesting idea , but that itself would require some sort of agreement with the nationalists.


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Interesting idea , but that itself would require some sort of agreement with the nationalists.



Would it? Beyond announcing that they were going to bring the government down, I'm not sure they'd need to discuss very much. Would they?

Anyway, just trying to figure out if there's any logic behind Labour's current posturing.


----------



## killer b (May 1, 2015)

They don't have the cash for a second election. Could they just be confident of an outright victory? The polls don't seem to be even vaguely sure of themselves, and both Labour's relaxed stance and the Tories panic suggest they both know something we don't...


----------



## andysays (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> Are Labour (and I'm just thinking out loud here, so excuse me if I'm way off beam!) planning for a 2nd election here? Allowing the Tories to form a shit minority government, and then bring it down in the hope that a 2nd election will see voters returning from the SNP/PC/Greens?



Can see this - Labour don't have the money to fight another election, so they'd be at an immediate disadvantage.


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

killer b said:


> Could they just be confident of an outright victory?



No.


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

killer b said:


> They don't have the cash for a second election. Could they just be confident of an outright victory? The polls don't seem to be even vaguely sure of themselves, and both Labour's relaxed stance and the Tories panic suggest they both know something we don't...



...he hasn't ruled out a "deal" with the Lib Dems yet, has he?


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

andysays said:


> Can see this - Labour don't have the money to fight another election, so they'd be at an immediate disadvantage.



Fair enough. Just idly speculating


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> ...he hasn't ruled out a "deal" with the Lib Dems yet, has he?


Together they won't have enough, probably sub 300.


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

So some of the audience were tory activists/tory letter signers, then? Hmmm


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> ...he hasn't ruled out a "deal" with the Lib Dems yet, has he?


Nor indeed with the Tories...


----------



## chilango (May 1, 2015)

They wouldn't, would they?

Part of me hopes they would.


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> They wouldn't, would they?
> 
> Part of me hopes they would.


Seems like this evening's Miliband welcome committee in Glasgow believe he has already...


----------



## killer b (May 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> No.


I'm sure you're right, but there's a load of stuff that doesn't seem to add up to me otherwise.

Ed Miliband isn't some kind of political naif making mistakes and fucking up when he's saying _no deals_, he's been very precise and consistent about it, for weeks now. He knows that, if he's to do a deal post-election, he'd be crucified for it. He could have left it more open, but didn't, and he hasn't been forced into doing this. It's part of their election strategy. 

In which case, what are they doing? The campaign elsewhere has been sure-footed and impressive - I don't believe that in this one area they're just panicking. The only things I can think of are a) they're confident they can form a government without the SNP, or b) they've given up. Neither seem very likely, so maybe I'm missing something...


----------



## Plumdaff (May 1, 2015)

Sat here watching Green Pippa Bortalotti's performance on the Welsh leaders debate and can only assume she's doing her best to make Natalie Bennett look competent. Jesus.


----------



## treelover (May 1, 2015)

The Welsh Debate is great, lots of emphasis on social security, inequality, Leanne is compassionate and eloquent, Pippa, who apparently has been derogatory about claimants in the past is very robust in their defence tonight, worth watching.

The Tory sounds a Thatcherite.


----------



## andysays (May 1, 2015)

killer b said:


> ...In which case, what are they doing? The campaign elsewhere has been sure-footed and impressive - I don't believe that in this one area they're just panicking. The only things I can think of are a) *they're confident they can form a government without the SNP*, or b) they've given up. Neither seem very likely, so maybe I'm missing something...



As far as I can see, they can't be confident of forming a govt without at least the active support of the SNP in voting for their QS.

Arguably they can pretty much rely on this without any sort of deal, because if the Tories fail to get a QS through and then Labour do too, that just leaves another election, which I'm assuming would favour the Tories, so I can't see that it's in the SNP's interest that Labour don't get to form a govt.


----------



## Plumdaff (May 1, 2015)

treelover said:


> The Welsh Debate is great, lots of emphasis on social security, inequality, Leanne is compassionate and eloquent, Pippa, who apparently has been derogatory about claimants in the past is very robust in their defence tonight, worth watching.
> 
> The Tory sounds a Thatcherite.



Pippa is reeling out laudable stock snippets that rarely relate to the questions. Leanne is superb I'd agree and I liked her talking about Labour taking Wales for granted.


----------



## killer b (May 1, 2015)

andysays said:


> As far as I can see, they can't be confident of forming a govt without at least the active support of the SNP in voting for their QS.
> 
> Arguably they can pretty much rely on this without any sort of deal, because if the Tories fail to get a QS through and then Labour do too, that just leaves another election, which I'm assuming would favour the Tories, so I can't see that it's in the SNP's interest that Labour don't get to form a govt.


I get that - but what he's been saying lately, and particularly last night, would make even getting to that point with the SNP difficult.


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

killer b said:


> I get that - but what he's been saying lately, and particularly last night, would make even getting to that point with the SNP difficult.


I'd imagine this all relates to their focus group/polling in the English marginals. Clearly Crosby's message had got home thoroughly.


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> I liked her talking about Labour taking Wales for granted.



Leanne has got a successful model to emulate, and it was significant that, when Sturgeon was dissing Miliband for what she claimed was preferring to lose rather than work with the SNP, she predicted that he would be punished by (former) Labour voter in Scotland *and other parts of the United Kingdom.*


----------



## 8ball (May 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I'd imagine this all relates to their focus group/polling in the English marginals. Clearly Crosby's message had got home thoroughly.



Yep.  It's about the numbers.


----------



## killer b (May 1, 2015)

ah - so if Scotland is lost to Labour, then take whatever tack is deemed necessary to shore up votes in the marginals?

I'd imagine Miliband is probably pretty relaxed behind closed doors about having a party to the left of Labour holding the balance against the blairites tbh.


----------



## redsquirrel (May 1, 2015)

chilango said:


> Are Labour (and I'm just thinking out loud here, so excuse me if I'm way off beam!) planning for a 2nd election here? Allowing the Tories to form a shit minority government, and then bring it down in the hope that a 2nd election will see voters returning from the SNP/PC/Greens?


This idea was discussed on here (can't remember which thread) a bit ago.

At the time I thought no chance. Now I'm still highly, highly skeptical but wouldn't rule it out completely.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

killer b said:


> ah - so if Scotland is lost to Labour, then take whatever tack is deemed necessary to shore up votes in the marginals?
> 
> I'd imagine Miliband is probably pretty relaxed behind closed doors about having a party to the left of Labour holding the balance against the blairites tbh.


So, is Ed in Scotland to say "no deal with the SNP. I'd rather not govern" again because he hopes it'll go down well with the soft portion of the SNP vote? Or because he's said it now, so he can't back down? Or what? 

I've been looking at this all day, and can't work out why they're not going "oh fuck, what have I said?"

Is this actually clever, but I'm too un-dark arts to see how?


----------



## killer b (May 1, 2015)

I dunno danny, I'm waiting for the big reveal...


----------



## Tankus (May 1, 2015)

Owen whatisface just seemed smug...!

And just a little bit greasy


----------



## redsquirrel (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Is this actually clever, but I'm too un-dark arts to see how?


I think they've just given up on Scotland, and the other heartlands, in the short term and are just concentrating everything on winning the swing voters in Lab-Tory marginals.

They feel that the Tories SNP attack is working with those people and think (wrongly IMO) they can deal with the after effects of the claim later.


----------



## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> So, is Ed in Scotland to say "no deal with the SNP. I'd rather not govern" again because he hopes it'll go down well with the soft portion of the SNP vote? Or because he's said it now, so he can't back down? Or what?
> 
> I've been looking at this all day, and can't work out why they're not going "oh fuck, what have I said?"
> 
> Is this actually clever, but I'm too un-dark arts to see how?


Danny I really don't think this is about Scotland at all. I've seen a few TV vox pops in the English battlegrounds in which Lab voters have expressed how concerned they are about "Salmond/Sturgeon having control of our government". I'm pretty sure that their focus group findings also told the same story and terrified them.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> I think they've just given up on Scotland in the short term and are just concentrating everything on the swing voters in Lab-Tory marginals.
> 
> They feel that the Tories SNP attack is working with those people and think (wrongly IMO) they can deal with the after effects later.


I thought too that they'd given up on Scotland. So, in that case he's in Scotland because that's the last place people would expect him to go and say that stuff if he's given up on it? 

Is that it? (I missed my calling as a spin doctor, obviously.)


----------



## redsquirrel (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> I thought too that they'd given up on Scotland. So, in that case he's in Scotland because that's the last place people would expect him to go and say that stuff if he's given up on it?


Could be that they made the plan some time in advance and don't want to change it? I know that sounds daft but I think we can sometimes give these people more cunning than they deserve.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> Danny I really don't think this is about Scotland at all. I've seen a few TV vox pops in the English battlegrounds in which Lab voters have expressed how concerned they are about "Salmond/Sturgeon having control of our government". I'm pretty sure that their focus group findings also told the same story and terrified them.


Sure, that's what I thought this morning. And the question that follows from that is "how do you backtrack on what he said about no deals of any kind whatsoever"?

So then I think, surely they're not just hoping it'll go away. 

But they really are, aren't they? They think It'll just be fine.


----------



## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Could be that they made the plan some time in advance and don't want to change it? I know that sounds daft but I think we can sometimes give these people more cunning than they deserve.


I think that's it. 

"Just go and say it. Remember: happy warrior! And it's for the 10 OClock News, not the locals".


----------



## redsquirrel (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> But they really are, aren't they? They think It'll just be fine.


I think so, ultimately I think despite everything these people are so isolated in their bubble that they don't really understand what motivated voters (or particularly care). 

I mean look at the Better Together campaign, the Yes to AV campaign, all the anti-UKIP stuff - all if it not just useless but actually achieving the opposite effects.


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## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

Yep, good point.


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## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> Sure, that's what I thought this morning. And the question that follows from that is "how do you backtrack on what he said about no deals of any kind whatsoever"?
> 
> So then I think, surely they're not just hoping it'll go away.
> 
> But they really are, aren't they? They think It'll just be fine.


I think that Miliband really believes that Sturgeon has painted herself into a corner...she can't do anything other than support him.


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## danny la rouge (May 1, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I think that Miliband really believes that Sturgeon has painted herself into a corner...she can't do anything other than support him.


He must realise that if there's legislation he needs the nats to vote for and they won't, it'll have to be shelved, if there's no formal deal and they're free to vote or not vote as they see fit. 

Not that there'll be much, mind. But there'll be some.


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## brogdale (May 1, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> He must realise that if there's legislation he needs the nats to vote for and they won't, it'll have to be shelved, if there's no formal deal and they're free to vote or not vote as they see fit.
> 
> Not that there'll be much, mind. But there'll be some.


True enough, but those would be the problems of power...all this is about desperately trying to achieve that power.


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## 8ball (May 2, 2015)

brogdale said:


> I think that Miliband really believes that Sturgeon has painted herself into a corner...she can't do anything other than support him.



I think he might be right too.


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## Plumdaff (May 2, 2015)

8ball said:


> I think he might be right too.


Of course. But only Labour face a long term existential threat if the next government is a Tory minority.  That's their massive miscalculation.


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## DownwardDog (May 2, 2015)

andysays said:


> Arguably they can pretty much rely on this without any sort of deal, because if the Tories fail to get a QS through and then Labour do too, that just leaves another election, which I'm assuming would favour the Tories, so I can't see that it's in the SNP's interest that Labour don't get to form a govt.



It's much easier to bang the drum for another referendum, which is surely the medium term goal, with a Conservative government in Westminster dishing out neoliberal austerity. So why wouldn't they want that?


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## DownwardDog (May 2, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> So, is Ed in Scotland to say "no deal with the SNP. I'd rather not govern" again because he hopes it'll go down well with the soft portion of the SNP vote? Or because he's said it now, so he can't back down? Or what?



Even if he does go back on it, so what? Politicians will say all sorts of shit to get elected and then worry about the consequences later. Their planning horizon is about 20 minutes. Ed will then have five years to make people forget the butthurt by making benefits more complicated and having his photo taken stood next to wind turbines.


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## killer b (May 2, 2015)

blah blah


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## 8ball (May 2, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Of course. But only Labour face a long term existential threat if the next government is a Tory minority.



I think a Tory minority would be worse for the Tories long-term for most plausible scenarios.


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## Plumdaff (May 2, 2015)

8ball said:


> I think a Tory minority would be worse for the Tories long-term for most plausible scenarios.


If many Labour, SNP, Plaid and Green voters end up thinking that the Labour Party would rather a Tory government than some progressive alighment they are surely fucked.


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## 8ball (May 2, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> If many Labour, SNP, Plaid and Green voters end up thinking that the Labour Party would rather a Tory government than some progressive alighment they are surely fucked.



What are they going to vote? Tory?

In any case, it's not about rejecting a progressive alignment, it's about not repeating the recent referendum.


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## TheHoodedClaw (May 2, 2015)

danny la rouge said:


> He must realise that if there's legislation he needs the nats to vote for and they won't, it'll have to be shelved, if there's no formal deal and they're free to vote or not vote as they see fit.
> 
> Not that there'll be much, mind. But there'll be some.



It gives freedom to also pass, say, a Trident renewal bill though - the Tories can't vote against that - who needs the SNP in that circumstance? There's no formal agreement after all. It's a risky strategy, a minority government...


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## Sprocket. (May 2, 2015)

Is history repeating itself yet again?
1974, two general elections in eight months, now that really would be a waste of money!


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## SE25 (May 2, 2015)

Got round to watching QT after turning it off 5 mins into Cameron's part. So many Tories in the audience. Even more people so sure that their opinions are fact. Fucking wind up.

That business owner going on about that fucking note can get to fuck


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## William of Walworth (May 2, 2015)

I deliberately didn't watch QT for similar reasons .. audience members often wind me up even more than the politicos, and there does sound like there were a lot of audience Tories from what people here have posted.

Thanks for that earlier link though danny la rouge (and chilango )

No comments myself on what Miliband said because eveyone earlier up this thread including you, have pretty much said the necessary .


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## William of Walworth (May 2, 2015)

Can we talk about the NHS now??


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## danny la rouge (May 2, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Can we talk about the NHS now??


You can, but it's devolved on Scotland, so apparently I'm not allowed to because of EVEL.


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## William of Walworth (May 2, 2015)

(As in Wales btw)

Just thought not in any way too seriously, it might be the only thing to help Labour more generally at the moment.


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## brogdale (May 2, 2015)

Plumdaff said:


> Of course. But only Labour face a long term existential threat if the next government is a Tory minority.  That's their massive miscalculation.



Is it? 

Given the usual caveats about polling, what numbers demonstrate any possibility of a tory minority getting through their QS? There is a reason why the vermin seem desperate and much of their campaign appears to have been a surrogate leadership contest.


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## danny la rouge (May 2, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> (As in Wales btw)


Separatist.


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## treelover (May 2, 2015)

Why the media emphasis on the possible LP/SNP lash up, why not the perhaps more controversial Con/Ukip lash up?

rhetorical question..


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## brogdale (May 2, 2015)

treelover said:


> Why the media emphasis on the possible LP/SNP lash up, why not the perhaps more controversial Con/Ukip lash up?
> 
> rhetorical question..


probably because UKIP would need some MPs for such a thing to occur.


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## killer b (May 2, 2015)

'cause it isn't on the cards, except in the fevered imaginations of the hard of thinking.


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## Belushi (May 2, 2015)

This election really hasn't gone the way UKIP thought, I wouldn't be surprised if they came away with no seats.


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## two sheds (May 2, 2015)

another tory/lib dem coalition, on the other hand, unpleasantly looks more likely ...


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## Maurice Picarda (May 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> This election really hasn't gone the way UKIP thought, I wouldn't be surprised if they came away with no seats.



Clacton looks pretty solid.


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## The Boy (May 2, 2015)

Maurice Picarda said:


> Clacton looks pretty solid.



It is, nbut here's the Paddy Power betting on number of UKIP seats.  It's not *that* long ago that there was talk of 10-15+ seats for them.


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## Belushi (May 2, 2015)

Is Clacton Carswell?


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## Maurice Picarda (May 2, 2015)

Indeed it is.


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## belboid (May 2, 2015)

The Boy said:


> It is, nbut here's the Paddy Power betting on number of UKIP seats.  It's not *that* long ago that there was talk of 10-15+ seats for them.
> View attachment 71004


Not from anyone sensible there wasn't


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## SE25 (May 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> This election really hasn't gone the way UKIP thought, I wouldn't be surprised if they came away with no seats.



I won't lie, I'd piss myself laughing if they managed that after all the hype and fawning coverage


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## William of Walworth (May 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> This election really hasn't gone the way UKIP thought, *I wouldn't be surprised if they came away with no seats*.




There's some pint-based betting going on about that, amongst our tiny *Election Night Party* membership ...

My pint is 1 (Clacton/Carswell's).

Actual number of pints, 7th May : Landslide ....


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## The Boy (May 2, 2015)

belboid said:


> Not from anyone sensible there wasn't


What's sensible got to do with it?


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## redsquirrel (May 2, 2015)

Belushi said:


> This election really hasn't gone the way UKIP thought, I wouldn't be surprised if they came away with no seats.


Never, pigs will fly before they lose Clacton, they've a huge majority.


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## William of Walworth (May 2, 2015)

Yes, completely agree. It was the size of their majority that influenced my pint (above)


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## gosub (May 2, 2015)

redsquirrel said:


> Never, pigs will fly before they lose Clacton, they've a huge majority.


Think a Ukip under Carswell instead  of Farage would be a more interesting beast,  (in the unlikely event we get through the next 18months without another election)


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