# Shots fired outside Houses of Parliament



## stuff_it (Mar 22, 2017)

Sketchy reports of gunfire and a man seen within the palace with a knife....


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 22, 2017)

Two people injured apparently. Parliament has been suspended.


----------



## kebabking (Mar 22, 2017)

Sky reporting two persons shot outside of Parliament. 14.54.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 22, 2017)

A man shot dead by police now.


----------



## kebabking (Mar 22, 2017)

Alleged vehicle attack at portcullis house - 5 injured pedestrians.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

BBC Breaking mini-report

Reports of shots outside UK Parliament - BBC News


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 22, 2017)

> Radosław Sikorski, a senior fellow at CES Harvard has tweeted that a car has hit five people.



From Guardian feed.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

More detail from ITV:

Shots heard outside parliament after knifeman charges into compound

Rather admirably not instantly joining dots:



> Amid shouts and screams, sounds similar to gunfire rang out. Two people were seen to be lying within Old Palace Yard, immediately outside Westminster Hall.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 22, 2017)

bodies on the bridge apparently


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

_Graun_ going with ‘man shot after cop stabbed’



(Edited to amend _Graun_-style typo)


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

shots inside the houses of parliament would have roused cheers from across the land


----------



## extra dry (Mar 22, 2017)

London under attack? What is going on?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> _Graun_ going with ‘man shot after cop tabbed’



PA concurs:


----------



## B.I.G (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> shots inside the houses of parliament would have roused cheers from across the land



This one may rebound on you. Sad times


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

that's nothing, there's hundreds of them lying inside the palace of westminster


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

Mark Urban's dot-joining reflex could not be constrained:


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

seriously tho you'd have thought any assailants would have done their due diligence and noticed the heavy security and numerous armed cops round both westminster and whitehall.


----------



## B.I.G (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 102696
> that's nothing, there's hundreds of them lying inside the palace of westminster



What a cunt you are.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Mar 22, 2017)

Phew...


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> shots inside the houses of parliament would have roused cheers from across the land


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

extra dry said:


> London under attack? What is going on?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

_Telegraph_ liveblog:

Parliament shooting: Armed man 'shot dead by police' after 'driving into pedestrians' in Westminster


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

Cuntybollocks has tweeted


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


>


i'm sorry if i don't treat this half-arsed twattery with the gravity you believe it deserves.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

kebabking said:


> Alleged vehicle attack at portcullis house - 5 injured pedestrians.


Looks like 'ordinary' members of the public who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time were mown down as part of the spectacle.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 22, 2017)

Kuenssberg reporting that ten people have been injured, probably by Jeremy Corbyn.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)




----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> Cuntybollocks has tweeted



Just edging it in the cunt premier league...this one reckons he came 'under fire'.
FFS


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Just edging it in the cunt premier league...this one reckons he came 'under fire'.
> FFS



what's im@buildimg?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> View attachment 102699


Do you have a source for that?


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> What a cunt you are.


save your ire for the perps and those inside parliament


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Just edging it in the cunt premier league...this one reckons he came 'under fire'.
> FFS



by came under fire he means told which way to vote in no uncertain terms.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Just edging it in the cunt premier league...this one reckons he came 'under fire'.
> FFS



Ah, the _ex-BTP hobby bobby_ Welsh Tory MP rather than the _ex-SAS_ English Tory MP.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 22, 2017)

this will be used to justify * _fill in the blanks_ * in the coming months sadly


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i'm sorry if i don't treat this half-arsed twattery with the gravity you believe it deserves.


Is this a laughing matter to you?

Police shoot knife attacker outside British parliament, people rammed with car, reports (WATCH LIVE)


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Just edging it in the cunt premier league...this one reckons he came 'under fire'.
> FFS




You have to give it to poor David Davis, the other David Davis is such a weapons grade cunt, he really has to work hard to get himself noticed.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> what's im@buildimg?


If he typed it, something islamophobic no doubt.


----------



## B.I.G (Mar 22, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> save your ire for the perps and those inside parliament



Not everyone in the houses of parliament is a cunt.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


>


At least he's not knee-jerk cheering on the cold-blooded execution of an innocent member of the public.


----------



## TruXta (Mar 22, 2017)

Trust urban to turn this into a bunfight


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> Is this a laughing matter to you?
> 
> *Unpleasant photo*



Excellent respecting of an injured person's privacy there, well done.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> At least he's not knee-jerk cheering on the cold-blooded execution of an innocent member of the public.


Who was doing that?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 22, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> Not everyone in the houses of parliament is a cunt.



I'm sure some of the cleaners, catering staff etc are lovely.


----------



## Shirl (Mar 22, 2017)

It's OK Theresa May is safe  according to BBC


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> Is this a laughing matter to you?
> 
> 
> Police shoot knife attacker outside British parliament, people rammed with car, reports (WATCH LIVE)


by no means. but half-arsed twattery it remains, and thank fuck for that. i for one wouldn't want to see one of the bombs which so regularly afflict baghdad etc go off here. it's like the haymarket attack in '07: thank fuck for incompetence.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Excellent respecting of an injured person's privacy there, well done.


Quite. Even spoilered, that's well out of order


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 22, 2017)

Firearms filth in plain clothes


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 22, 2017)

it looks like carnage on the bridge. Fucking hell,


----------



## tim (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> Cuntybollocks has tweeted




Probably an embittered Mark Clarke going postal.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Excellent respecting of an injured person's privacy there, well done.


Complain to RT.  I've removed it now anyway but it was there to make a point that this isn't some sort of chortle fest at the expense of MPs. Innocent people have been attacked and hurt.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Firearms filth in plain clothes


when someone rammed the gates of downing street in the early morning about 12 years ago cops came from everywhere in no time at all, it's no surprise they've planned for this sort of thing in the middle of the gsz


----------



## B.I.G (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> by no means. but half-arsed twattery it remains, and thank fuck for that. i for one wouldn't want to see one of the bombs which so regularly afflict baghdad etc go off here. it's like the haymarket attack in '07: thank fuck for incompetence.



How many have to die/injured to make it full-arsed? Moron.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 22, 2017)

ok can we start the thread again please


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> Complain to RT... Innocent people have been attacked.



Which I'm sure we can all comprehend without graphic photo evidence.

And if we're all getting our sense of ethics from a Russian state propaganda organisation now then it's probably time to just give up.


----------



## hot air baboon (Mar 22, 2017)

...hmmm...Farage ?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 22, 2017)

one year today since Brussels?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> How many have to die/injured to make it full-arsed? Moron.


there's no set number, but at least one bomb has to go off or an automatic weapon used. this sort of thing's in the great british jihadi tradition of incompetence, which has seen numerous attempts to emulate 7/7 but have met with such scant success.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> Complain to RT.  I've removed it now anyway but it was there to make a point that this isn't some sort of chortle fest at the expense of MPs. Innocent people have been attacked and hurt.


No one's having a laugh at their expense, just the parasites inside Parliament


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Firearms filth in plain clothes


The police officer who was stabbed may have died.


----------



## B.I.G (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> there's no set number, but at least one bomb has to go off or an automatic weapon used.



Odd.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Which I'm sure we can all comprehend without graphic photo evidence.
> 
> And if we're all getting our sense of ethics from a Russian state propaganda organisation now then it's probably time to just give up.


How about you give it a fucking rest with the point scoring and concentrate on what's happened here?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Mar 22, 2017)

From the BBC:

"There are also reports of further violent incidents in the vicinity of the Palace of Westminster but I hope colleagues on all sides will appreciate that it'd be wrong of me to go into further details until we have confirmation from the police and from the House security authorities about what is going on."


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Firearms filth in plain clothes


Don't think the incident was sufficiently large to warrant the Chinook chaps...you know, the ones that practice up and down the Thames every couple of weeks.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

ElizabethofYork said:


> From the BBC:
> 
> "There are also reports of further violent incidents in the vicinity of the Palace of Westminster but I hope colleagues on all sides will appreciate that it'd be wrong of me to go into further details until we have confirmation from the police and from the House security authorities about what is going on."


well perhaps it's not such an amateurish effort after all. perhaps.


----------



## Cloo (Mar 22, 2017)

I work on the Square, looking out at Parliament;  on lockdown. First we noticed was air ambulance landing outside, cordon had appeared noiselessly. Some SWAT type guys went into Parliament, but not in massive hurry, so assume precautionary rather than in response to anything.


----------



## rubbershoes (Mar 22, 2017)

any word about the people on the bridge?


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 22, 2017)

Innocent people on the bridge, the innocent again and again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Cloo said:


> I work on the Square, looking out at Parliament;  on lockdown. First we noticed was air ambulance landing outside, cordon had appeared noiselessly. Some SWAT type guys went into Parliament, but not in massive hurry, so assume precautionary rather than in response to anything.


can you see westminster bridge?


----------



## Mation (Mar 22, 2017)

cyril_smear said:


> A man shot dead by police now.


I've not heard anyone saying shot _dead_. 'Just' shot.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 22, 2017)

SKy news on now, said he stabbed a copper then shot.


----------



## T & P (Mar 22, 2017)

TruXta said:


> Trust urban to turn this into a bunfight


That was pretty much a given eventually, but on page 2 it's still fairly impressive.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 22, 2017)

Someone trying to delay article 50


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

;


----------



## Captain Christy (Mar 22, 2017)

Shirl said:


> It's OK Theresa May is safe  according to BBC


Laundry staff working overtime at No 10


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Mar 22, 2017)

Bridge scene looks nasty.


----------



## Ms T (Mar 22, 2017)

Car drove into loads of pedestrians on Westminster Bridge. Several injured.


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> ...thing's in the great british jihadi tradition of incompetence...



I'll pick you up on this another time, but it is far from the first comment you have made of this nature.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 22, 2017)

Captain Christy said:


> Laundry staff working overtime at No 10



don't take long to wipe down £1000 leather trousers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Stanley Edwards said:


> I'll pick you up on this another time, but it is far from the first comment you have made of this nature.


yes cos it's true you twat. why not do some research and then come back and stay silent while people who've a notion chat away.


----------



## Cloo (Mar 22, 2017)

Where the car struck is major selfie spot - pretty good way to hit maximum number people. Can't quite see Bridge, this is my view


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> don't take long to wipe down £1000 leather trousers.


yeh, but 200 pairs of them it does


----------



## tim (Mar 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> And if we're all getting our sense of ethics from a Russian state propaganda organisation now then it's probably time to just give up.



Give up paying our licence fee as if we're turning to the Russians the BBC must be failing in it's duty to indoctrinate


----------



## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

Just overheard a gym instructor telling someone that "someone's been shot dead inside the palace".

Even though a screen with the rolling news is up on the wall in front of us.


----------



## rubbershoes (Mar 22, 2017)

Gruaniad said:
			
		

> Theresa May was ushered by at least eight armed undercover police, some with their firearms drawn, into a waiting black vehicle in Speaker’s Court, the footage seen by the Guardian shows. Loud bangs can be heard in the background as she is ushered into the car, but it is unclear whether the bangs were gunshots.



Could be the sound of her emptying her lunch into her £1,000 trousers


----------



## B.I.G (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yes cos it's true you twat. why not do some research and then come back and stay silent while people who've a notion chat away.



A notion? A waste of space that always has a comment. People have died. Make a comment. People are suffering. Make a comment. People are happy. Make a comment. 

Let's hope it wasn't anyone you know.


----------



## rubbershoes (Mar 22, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> don't take long to wipe down £1000 leather trousers.


----------



## tim (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> there's no set number, but at least one bomb has to go off or an automatic weapon used. this sort of thing's in the great british jihadi tradition of incompetence, which has seen numerous attempts to emulate 7/7 but have met with such scant success.



They're not laughing, they're too busy tweeting about their resilience in the face of adversity.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

chilango said:


> Just overheard a gym instructor telling someone that "someone's been shot dead inside the palace".
> 
> Even though a screen with the rolling news is up on the wall in front of us.


maybe he was thinking of another palace


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

Shit: 


> A Reuters photographer has seen at least a dozen people injured on Westminster Bridge and photographs by the news agency show people lying on the ground, some bleeding heavily.


----------



## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> maybe he was thinking of another palace



Maybe. You heard it here first!


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Mar 22, 2017)

Oh shit.


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

paul golding of britain first claims that the 'left has blood on its hands!' conveniently forgetting jo cox's assassin. an utter toilet.


----------



## bimble (Mar 22, 2017)

So fucked up where my brain goes with this stuff, instantly hoping its one kind of nutter and not another kind.


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> paul golding of britain first claims that the 'left has blood on its hands!' conveniently forgetting jo cox's assassin. an utter toilet.



And forgetting that the traditional perpetrators of this kind of shit are conservative religious loons. Fuck all to do with the left.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> A notion? A waste of space that always has a comment. People have died. Make a comment. People are suffering. Make a comment. People are happy. Make a comment.
> 
> Let's hope it wasn't anyone you know.


i treat your comments with the seriousness they deserve, which given your opposition to anti-fascism and anti-racist initiatives is, i regret, slight.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> No one's having a laugh at their expense, just the parasites inside Parliament


Yep.  You draw your own lines in terms of how you respond to something like this. It's emerging as we discuss it on here so yes, maybe we should be circumspect about what we type. But then something itches away at the way it is reported, something makes you want to refer to the people who are directly and indirectly the cause of this stuff* (if of course it is related to UK foreign policy). And that takes you right back to the people inside the building.  You can be human, you can respect the members of the public who get hurt, but you can do that without abandoning your worldview.

*which doesn't remove the agency and responsibility of whoever has actually carried it out by a single % point.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)




----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 22, 2017)

French schoolkids on the bridge apparently. fucking hell


----------



## kebabking (Mar 22, 2017)

A daily mail hack overlooking the scene on the bridge says there's at least one fatality there - treatment stopped and a blanket was drawn over them.

It appears that the stabbed police officer has also died of their injuries.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 22, 2017)

Have we seen any sad dogs on twitter yet? has anyone asked the dogs about all of this?


----------



## Mation (Mar 22, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> French schoolkids on the bridge apparently. fucking hell


BBC reporter saying he talked to one of them and some of their party were hit by the car. Uncorroborated as yet.


----------



## B.I.G (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i treat your comments with the seriousness they deserve, which given your opposition to anti-fascism and anti-racist initiatives is, i regret, slight.



That's fine. Except I'm not opposed to either of those things, but you do make light of people's suffering, which makes you a total cunt, and I was so prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Yep.  You draw your own lines in terms of how you respond to something like this. It's emerging as we discuss it on here so yes, maybe we should be circumspect about what we type. But then something itches away at the way it is reported, something makes you want to refer to the people who are directly and indirectly the cause of this stuff* (if of course it is related to UK foreign policy). And that takes you right back to the people inside the building.  You can be human, you can respect the members of the public who get hurt, but you can do that without abandoning your worldview.
> 
> *which doesn't remove the agency and responsibility of whoever has actually carried it out by a single % point.



Also worth thinking about how the perps most likely want us to respond. Whilst we don't know for certain it's unlikely to be with  pisstsking and humour.

Also remember Charlie Hebdo and the discussions after that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> That's fine. Except I'm not opposed to either of those things, but you do make light of people's suffering, which makes you a total cunt, and I was so prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt.


lies upon lies.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

Self-styled eyewitness account:


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> paul golding of britain first claims that the 'left has blood on its hands!' conveniently forgetting jo cox's assassin. an utter toilet.


Various fash groups will already be dusting off their Lee Rigby campaigns.


----------



## Mation (Mar 22, 2017)

"Trump has been briefed on the incident."

Stand down everyone! It's all in hand now.


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

southeastern railways have finally got a believable excuse for transport chaos.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Mation said:


> "Trump has been briefed on the incident."
> 
> Stand down everyone! It's all in hand now.


he'd bomb london that daft twat


----------



## B.I.G (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> lies upon lies.



Except I'm not against anti-racism or anti-fascism and you are making light of the death and injury to people on this very thread.

Making you a total cunt.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Various fash groups will already be dusting off their Lee Rigby campaigns.


tbh it could conceivably be fash.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 22, 2017)

TBH, I am surprised it has taken this long for this kinda incident to happen in London- give the precedents in Europe over the past year or two.


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

Donald trump has just denied it!


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> Except I'm not against anti-racism or anti-fascism and you are making light of the death and injury to people on this very thread.
> 
> Making you a total cunt.


It would be hugely beneficial to the discussion of this breaking news event if the two of you could suspend your ongoing personal beef, or if that's not possible, take it elsewhere.

In fact, I'm not asking: I'm telling you. If either of you continue, you will receive a warning.


----------



## Cloo (Mar 22, 2017)

We're going to be evacuated, though it seems  safer to stay here to me. OTOH, our guys are advised by the experts over the road, so they probably know best here!


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> TBH, I am surprised it has taken this long for this kinda incident to happen in London- give the precedents in Europe over the past year or two.



yeah thats a bit of a chilly thought i try to push to the back of my mind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> Except I'm not against anti-racism or anti-fascism and you are making light of the death and injury to people on this very thread.
> 
> Making you a total cunt.


yeh. but all you're saying is i'm a total cunt. you've said nothing of interest to me. you've said nothing of interest to anyone else. you're a dull waste of space who can't even be arsed to say this is bad. all you've said on this post is 'you're a cunt'. why not say 'omg this is terrible'? but no, it's 'pickman's is a total cunt', pitiful, and unoriginal.


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

now there's tons of coppers there. why do they need so many? what do they actually do?


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 22, 2017)

Shirl said:


> It's OK Theresa May is safe



Aww, ya can't win em all.


----------



## Mation (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> Donald trump has just denied it!


?? Denied anything has happened?


----------



## YouSir (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> now there's tons of coppers there. why do they need so many? what do they actually do?



Feel important.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 22, 2017)

It barely happened an hour ago and there's already an ITV special.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> shots inside the houses of parliament would have roused cheers from across the land



Not appropriate.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> now there's tons of coppers there. why do they need so many? what do they actually do?


You know they don't get to pick and choose what 999 call to answer. 

Of all the hot stupid takes....


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

I've cycled past Westminster Palace many times and have often thought how easy it would be to pull up in a vehicle and run into the public entrances as they open out onto the street.


----------



## Mation (Mar 22, 2017)

Mation said:


> ?? Denied anything has happened?


Oh


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

Mation said:


> BBC reporter saying he talked to one of them and some of their party were hit by the car. Uncorroborated as yet.


The live TV pictures from chopper appeared to show emergency services attending to numerous victims along the length of the bridge from the St Thomas' steps all the way to the railings opposite Westminster tube. 
Only sliver of good news being the proximity to St Thomas' A&E.


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 22, 2017)

AP Food in Westminster is getting some good free advertisement on ITV anyway.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

A curious development


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

Fucking silly tweet from Adam Afriyie MP


> Parliament must not be cowered by this incident and I'd like the House of Commons to reconvene as soon as possible this afternoon.


 Yeah, that would be a _real_ priority for the police who are charging round trying to secure this and that, not sure whether it's a 'lone gunman' or more etc. FFS.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> now there's tons of coppers there. why do they need so many? what do they actually do?



Claim overtime, try not to do anything racist in front of the news cameras, ask sir for permission if they need the toilet.


----------



## bimble (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> now there's tons of coppers there. why do they need so many? what do they actually do?


They look clam, (says Guardian).
]


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

Mation said:


> Oh



i was joking!


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> You know they don't get to pick and choose what 999 call to answer... Of all the hot stupid takes....



what do you mean? hot stupid takes?


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 22, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> TBH, I am surprised it has taken this long for this kinda incident to happen in London- give the precedents in Europe over the past year or two.



There are a lot of static defences around important buildings, planters etc. so as to keep vehicles away - defences they started sorting out when the IRA were targeting London. We're probably better protected than a lot of cities. I guess we might see some more of these defences going in now. 

Also access to fire arms is tougher here than most of continental Europe, so the mass shooting type attack not so likely. I suspect shots heard here were just police ones, and reports of police being called to a shooting incident is just the usual fog of information after something like this.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

Katie Price reveals her horror as she's caught up in Parliament terror attack

Well thank christ for that.


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 22, 2017)

Chap who was on the bridge being interviewed by Sky just said he saw one body lying face down in the river...


----------



## YouSir (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> A curious development




Standard procedure maybe? Emergency stop until police are there?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> Katie Price reveals her horror as she's caught up in Parliament terror attack
> 
> Well thank christ for that.


Please no one tell Trump there's a suspected link to Jordan


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

they turn up after the event, leaving other areas unpoliced, and staging a spectacle in 1 place then carrying out another is a fairly obvious terror tactic.


----------



## not a trot (Mar 22, 2017)

B.I.G said:


> Not everyone in the houses of parliament is a cunt.



You're right. Some of them are wankers as apposed to cunts.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> what do you mean? hot stupid takes?



The police response to what appears to be an armed attacker and an assault on a police officer with overwhelming force. It'd be weird if every available officer WASN'T there.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Chap who was on the bridge being interviewed by Sky just said he saw one body lying face down in the river...


Jesus.
Maybe jumped out of the way of the on-coming vehicle?


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> they turn up after the event, leaving other areas unpoliced, and staging a spectacle in 1 place then carrying out another is a fairly obvious terror tactic.



Generally most terrorist attacks are isolated incidents. And you don't know what precautions are being taken elsewhere.


----------



## 2hats (Mar 22, 2017)

Mation said:


> "Trump has been briefed on the incident."
> 
> Stand down everyone! It's all in hand now.


Short clip of him just now, sitting down for some sort of meeting, where he appears to comment “something has happened in London”.

e2a: to be precise the quote in full:


> Big news … I was just getting an update on London … some big news having to do with London just happened.


----------



## wiskey (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Jesus.
> Maybe jumped out of the way of the on-coming vehicle?


the bbc witness said he jumped to avoid the police


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

2hats said:


> Short clip of him just now, sitting down for some sort of meeting, where he appears to comment “something has happened in London”.


something to do with bowling no doubt


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 22, 2017)

One woman has died, others with "catastrophic" injuries... just reported on Sky....


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

Anyway, stay safe any urbs in the vicinity.


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> The police response to what appears to be an armed attacker and an assault on a police officer with overwhelming force. It'd be weird if every available officer WASN'T there.


is there no contingency plan that leaves a 'skeleton force' in operation? instead of everyone legging over to see what the hoo-ha is leaving the rest of the city of WM unpoliced.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

wiskey said:


> the bbc witness said he jumped to avoid the police


>1 attacker?


----------



## wiskey (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> they turn up after the event, leaving other areas unpoliced, and staging a spectacle in 1 place then carrying out another is a fairly obvious terror tactic.



It's round the corner from a major police centre with a massive garage, every officer will have picked up a car.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Mar 22, 2017)

not a trot said:


> You're right. Some of them are wankers as apposed to cunts.



For fucks sake.  There are cleaning staff, waiting staff, clerical staff working there.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 22, 2017)

According to a BBC reporter, Westminster is one of the busiest parts of London.


----------



## wiskey (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> is there no contingency plan that leaves a 'skeleton force' in operation? instead of everyone legging over to see what the hoo-ha is leaving the rest of the city of WM unpoliced.



oh give over, there's thousands of police. 

The ambulance service doesn't leave half of london uncovered, why would the police?


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Standard procedure maybe? Emergency stop until police are there?


Ah:


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

BBC: 





> A planned evacuation of Parliament has been halted after an announcement was made saying there was a suspicious package in a vehicle and the bomb squad had been called.


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

wiskey said:


> oh give over, there's thousands of police.
> 
> The ambulance service doesn't leave half of london uncovered, why would the police?



the point is it seems like a scramble rather than an orderly mobilisation that leaves other police in situ.


----------



## bimble (Mar 22, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> According to a BBC reporter, Westminster is one of the busiest parts of London.


It's always rammed with tourists and pedestrians around there so yes probably.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> is there no contingency plan that leaves a 'skeleton force' in operation? instead of everyone legging over to see what the hoo-ha is leaving the rest of the city of WM unpoliced.



 There's 32,000 officers in the Met, they're not all in Parliament square right now.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

One woman confirmed dead, 'a number' of other with 'catastrophic injuries' - people on the bridge ain't done no wrong :-(


----------



## steveo87 (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> Ah:




Unless they've got spare toilets, they've made a massive error in judgement.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

Oh FFS...


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

ElizabethofYork said:


> For fucks sake.  There are cleaning staff, waiting staff, clerical staff working there.



and i bet they're not allowed into the bar with its discount drinks.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> they turn up after the event, leaving other areas unpoliced, and staging a spectacle in 1 place then carrying out another is a fairly obvious terror tactic.


do you remember 7/7/2006, when there were a huge number of cops on the streets, to close the door a year after the horse had bolted?


----------



## YouSir (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Oh FFS...




Aye, far too soon to start pointing the finger really.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Oh FFS...



never mind, she'll shuffle off this mortal coil at some point in the next 50 years


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> There's 32,000 officers in the Met, they're not all in Parliament square right now.



all on duty at once?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> and i bet they're not allowed into the bar with its discount drinks.


they'll float out half the mps


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> now there's tons of coppers there. why do they need so many? what do they actually do?


What would you like them to do?


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> all on duty at once?



You have no idea if the police response in Parliament Sq has left other parts of the city seriously vulnerable, other that "it stands to reason innit"


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> now there's tons of coppers there. why do they need so many? what do they actually do?



Hardly a shock that HoP and Whitehall is crawling with armed filth. Even by the Met's usual incompetent standards it'd be pretty shocking if there weren't there.


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

Parliament shooting - latest updates - BBC News

live feed.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Oh FFS...




He is ITV's royal correspondent.....


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> all on duty at once?


about 8,000 on at once, among 32 boroughs. = 250 per borough tho there's also the commissioner's reserve of tsg


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> Parliament shooting - latest updates - BBC News
> 
> live feed.


live feed perhaps not the best term


----------



## Mation (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> i was joking!


Yes, I worked that out eventually. It was too believable


----------



## Ponyutd (Mar 22, 2017)

Kay Burleigh has been seen rushing around looking for a dog with sad eyes.


----------



## 1%er (Mar 22, 2017)

Any confirmation that people jumped off the bridge to avoid being hit by the car, that's being reported here


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Oh FFS...



To be honest, HRH 'being in a palace and not budging from her palace' is an eloquent reply to the terrorists.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Ponyutd said:


> Kay Burleigh has been seen rushing around looking for a dog with sad eyes.


pity there's not a drink called sadness or kay burleigh would have sadness in her eyes


----------



## LDC (Mar 22, 2017)

And the CTSFOs are from a very different pool than normal cops, and them deploying to the area doesn't deplete day to day policing in other areas.

Anyway, good to see some on here are experts on managing this kind of thing.


----------



## bimble (Mar 22, 2017)

DM is going with 'Asian knifeman' and its comments know exactly what's going on, of course. 
Does anyone understand if he was shot dead or just shot?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> To be honest, HRM 'being in a palace and not budging from her palace' is an eloquent reply to the terrorists.


yeh cos if she moved it'd only be to another palace so might as well keep her where she is


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> He is ITV's royal correspondent.....


You're not selling him to me.


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> What would you like them to do?



well thats a separate thread. i am watching all these cops heading towards the scene thus leaving other parts under-policed and vulnerable. but anyway ..


----------



## Ponyutd (Mar 22, 2017)

1%er said:


> Any confirmation that people jumped off the bridge to avoid being hit by the car, that's being reported here


It looks like the pictures sky showed is of a person who has jumped off the bridge. The person has obviously got broken leg(s). Quite shocking pictures to be honest.


----------



## tim (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh cos if she moved it'd only be to another palace so might as well keep her where she is



She could flee on the Royal Train


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

1%er said:


> Any confirmation that people jumped off the bridge to avoid being hit by the car, that's being reported here


bit of a shit choice


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 22, 2017)

Thank god for Kay Burleigh arriving to sort it all out!


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> well thats a separate thread. i am watching all these cops heading towards the scene thus leaving other parts under-policed and vulnerable.



There will be more cops on duty now than an hour ago. The number of police within London twiddling their thumbs in McDonalds or their offices will be much lower than normal. The ones currently in Westminster can easily be redeployed elsewhere if needed. Police cover could therefore be better than usual for all areas.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


>





get a fucking grip ITV


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

bimble said:


> DM is going with 'Asian knifeman' and its comments know exactly what's going on, of course.
> Does anyone understand if he was shot dead or just shot?


Didn't take long...


----------



## malatesta32 (Mar 22, 2017)

apols for sidetracking into the mets anti-terror police. now ive got to teach a 3yr old how to play hide & seek - which is a bit like arguing on U75 at times! 
ps: laura keunsberg locked in HofC.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> And the CTSFOs are from a very different pool than normal cops, and them deploying to the area doesn't deplete day to day policing in other areas.
> 
> Anyway, good to see some on here are experts on managing this kind of thing.


yeh which is why i factored out 8000 cops - cos there's safer transport, traffic, a range of specialist units, staff officers, senior officers, cops in courts, diploplod, aquaplod etc.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> apols for sidetracking into the mets anti-terror police. now ive got to teach a 3yr old how to play hide & seek - which is a bit like arguing on U75 at times!
> ps: laura keunsberg locked in HofC.



Here's hoping they keep her there.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

Fair play.


----------



## Smangus (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> southeastern railways have finally got a believable excuse for transport chaos.



Ironically I've just got a train from Charing cross and everything seemed to be running like clockwork. They can't even get that right!


----------



## Bungle73 (Mar 22, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> get a fucking grip ITV


What's it got to do with ITV?


----------



## LDC (Mar 22, 2017)

Too many police in the area/not enough police in the area.

Just can't please some anarchists.


----------



## Mr Moose (Mar 22, 2017)

Stanley Edwards said:


> I'll pick you up on this another time, but it is far from the first comment you have made of this nature.



It doesn't mean these useless bastards aren't dangerous merely that their efforts are pathetic.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Too many police in the area/not enough police in the area.
> 
> Just can't please some anarchists.


who's been policing in MY town? said the three bears


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> well thats a separate thread. i am watching all these cops heading towards the scene thus leaving other parts under-policed and vulnerable. but anyway ..




Very comforting for the victims of this horrendous terrorist attack .


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 22, 2017)

.


----------



## 1%er (Mar 22, 2017)

reports here now saying that 2 people in plain clothes (not uniformed police) open fire and shot someone who had attacked a policeman and was running into Parliament


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

1%er said:


> reports here now saying that 2 people in plain clothes (not uniformed police) open fire and shot someone who had attacked a policeman and was running into Parliament


_What_ reports _where_?


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

1%er said:


> reports here now saying that 2 people in plain clothes (not uniformed police) open fire and shot someone who had attacked a policeman and was running into Parliament


 

Should I put this on every page?


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 22, 2017)

Two confirmed dead now.


----------



## 1%er (Mar 22, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> _What_ reports _where_?


A Globo reporter from Brazil who is visiting the HoC


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

What's CTSFO? They've certainly got all the gear.


----------



## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

It's probably fortunate in many ways that they've targeted the most protected and prepared spot in the entire country.


----------



## 2hats (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> What's CTSFO? They've certainly got all the gear.


Counter Terrorist Specialist Firearms Officer.


----------



## 1%er (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> View attachment 102711
> 
> Should I put this on every page?


No your post is pointless as it is a fast moving story and we will not know the full facts for a long time so people are reporting what they are hearing which doesn't make it true as we all know


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Mar 22, 2017)

bimble said:


> DM is going with 'Asian knifeman' and its comments know exactly what's going on, of course.


The photos on the BBC of the (presumed) driver being loaded onto the ambulance shows he is non-white (or extremely heavily tanned).


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> View attachment 102711
> 
> Should I put this on every page?


i expect you will anyway


----------



## wiskey (Mar 22, 2017)

for those interested in the roles of the emergency services at MI's the LESLP MIP lays it all out. I dk if it's publicly available, it's a bit of a tome.

Tommys is not a Major Trauma Centre so injured people will have to go to Kings or Paddington


----------



## bimble (Mar 22, 2017)

chilango said:


> It's probably fortunate in many ways that they've targeted the most protected and prepared spot in the entire country.


With a knife, yes.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

1%er said:


> No your post is pointless as it is a fast moving story and we will not know the full facts for a long time so people are reporting what they are hearing which doesn't make it true as we all know



A good idea is then to maybe not repeat something until you've heard it confirmed?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Buddy Bradley said:


> The photos on the BBC of the driver (presumably) being loaded onto the ambulance shows he is non-white (or extremely heavily tanned).


so, someone you don't know who it is or their significance has been put into an ambulance. right.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

wiskey said:


> for those interested in the roles of the emergency services at MI's the LESLP MIP lays it all out. I dk if it's publicly available, it's a bit of a tome.
> 
> Tommys is not a Major Trauma Centre so injured people will have to go to Kings or Paddington


www.met.police.uk/leslp/docs/major-incident-procedure-manual-9th-ed.pdf


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> View attachment 102711
> 
> Should I put this on every page?


In some ways the rumours and false reports help paint a fuller picture of what's going on (as in the minds of the public/media), so I don't think there's any harm in posting up what's been said elsewhere, with links (although including a caveat would be wise )


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> so, someone you don't know who it is or their significance has been put into an ambulance. right.


Well, the guy that was on the ground next to the car being worked on by police and ambulance staff. That's why I said presumed driver.


----------



## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

Kuesenburg mentioned something about hearing of military with shields rushing into somewhere in parliament....any more on that?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 22, 2017)

I see Tommy Robinson & some other spotty racist cunt are down down spewing their bile. Pair of cunts.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Well, the guy that was on the ground next to the car being worked on by police and ambulance staff. That's why I said presumed driver.


yes. and you don't KNOW who they are. which is why i said you don't know who they are.


----------



## kebabking (Mar 22, 2017)

bimble said:


> With a knife, yes.



And a tonne of steel.

Both tools appear to have worked quite well enough for this cunts purposes.


----------



## 1%er (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> A good idea is then to maybe not repeat something until you've heard it confirmed?


That is why I said "it is being reported" that doesn't make it true. Are ytou saying people should not tell others what is being reported, people understand it may not be fact as it is fast moving 

It seems that at least one person did go into the river as the police are reporting they pulled her out


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I see Tommy Robinson & some other spotty racist cunt are down down spewing their bile. Pair of cunts.


if only it was just the two of them


----------



## JTG (Mar 22, 2017)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Well, the guy that was on the ground next to the car being worked on by police and ambulance staff. That's why I said presumed driver.


Plod medical trained now are they?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

chilango said:


> Kuesenburg mentioned something about hearing of military with shields rushing into somewhere in parliament....any more on that?



Will be pigs of some flavour rather than military.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yes. and you don't KNOW who they are. which is why i said you don't know who they are.


Are you just picking a fight with everyone that posts in this thread?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

kebabking said:


> And a tonne of steel.
> 
> Both tools appear to have worked quite well enough for this cunts purposes.


well several dead and a dozen injured. and yer man captured alive... more arrests to follow no doubt the useless twats


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

JTG said:


> Plod medical trained now are they?




Oh yeah:


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Are you just picking a fight with everyone that posts in this thread?


no, just you


----------



## tim (Mar 22, 2017)

1%er said:


> reports here now saying fttfshat 2 people in plain clothes (not uniformed police) open fire and shot someone who had attacked a policeman and was running into Parliament




Continuity IRA cell aiming to undermine Martin's legacy pissed off at being pipped at the post by Jihadi amateurs


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

1%er said:


> That is why I said "it is being reported" that doesn't make it true. Are ytou saying people should not tell others what is being reported, people understand it may not be fact as it is fast moving
> 
> It seems that at least one person did go into the river as the police are reporting they pulled her out



How about instead of repeating something that possibly isn't true you try and find another source, or an actual source, presuming you didn't get news from Pennywise the Clown.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

JTG said:


> Plod medical trained now are they?


Aye


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Oh yeah:


Get you, Lightning McSpeedo


----------



## wiskey (Mar 22, 2017)

JTG said:


> Plod medical trained now are they?


most of them


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> no, just you


Do fuck off.


----------



## Buddy Bradley (Mar 22, 2017)

JTG said:


> Plod medical trained now are they?


You're right, there's no reason at all to presume that people likely to be first on the scene of situations involving injury would have received any medical training.


----------



## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

Woman pulled alive from river (BBC)


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

IT SEEMS THAT EVERYONE IN THE ITV GALLERY IS SHOUTING VERY LOUDLY


----------



## xenon (Mar 22, 2017)

Brian Paddock on LBC says he's heard the officer who was attacked has died.


----------



## 1%er (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> How about instead of repeating something that possibly isn't true you try and find another source, or an actual source, presuming you didn't get news from Pennywise the Clown.


The Brazilian reporter was right about someone in the river, which hadn't been posted here, he has said again on the news here that a person was shot by people in plain clothes, if its correct it is important news as it begs the question, what were the armed police in uniform doing.

He is also reporting now the copper is dead

Edit to add we may never know if it was plain clothes police or not for security reasons, they may just say shot by police


----------



## JTG (Mar 22, 2017)

Buddy Bradley said:


> You're right, there's no reason at all to presume that people likely to be first on the scene of situations involving injury would have received any medical training.


Just asking a question! Jesus


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

_Sunday Times _journo:


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

1%er said:


> The Brazilian reporter was right about someone in the river, which hadn't been posted here, he has said again on the news here that a person was shot by people in plain clothes, if its correct it is important news as it begs the question, what were the armed police in uniform doing.
> 
> He is also reporting now the copper is dead
> 
> Edit to add we may never know if it was plain clothes police or not for security reasons



Again if you search back the 7/7 thread from the day, you'll hear reports about a shooting in Canary warf, total bollocks but it got tied up in the conspiracy theories for years. 

If you don't know if something's true or not don't report it. It's hard to believe you also need to point that out to journalists as well, but here we are.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

1%er said:


> The Brazilian reporter was right about someone in the river, which hadn't been posted here, he has said again on the news here that a person was shot by people in plain clothes, if its correct it is important news as it begs the question, what were the armed police in uniform doing.
> 
> He is also reporting now the copper is dead
> 
> Edit to add we may never know if it was plain clothes police or not for security reasons, they may just say shot by police



Does it matter? Westminster is crawling with plain clothes cops, for a just this situation.


----------



## bimble (Mar 22, 2017)

this is the MET's statement (someone from BBC on twitter just posted it)


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Buddy Bradley said:


> Do fuck off.


could say the same, don't see why you objected to my post in the first place. don't see me swearing at you tho.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> I see Tommy Robinson & some other spotty racist cunt are down down spewing their bile. Pair of cunts.


Indeed.


----------



## Sirena (Mar 22, 2017)

Buddy Bradley said:


> The photos on the BBC of the (presumed) driver being loaded onto the ambulance shows he is non-white (or extremely heavily tanned).


He'll have left his passport at the scene, so it should become obvious who he is...


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

xenon said:


> Brian Paddock on LBC says he's heard the officer who was attacked has died.


yeh this seems to be a theme of the afternoon


----------



## ddraig (Mar 22, 2017)

Who is the other far right activist in that video


----------



## cyril_smear (Mar 22, 2017)

chilango said:


> It's probably fortunate in many ways that they've targeted the most protected and prepared spot in the entire country.



Maximum publicitty as well, whch I assume would factor into the rationale of somebody wantng to make some kind of political statement, if it is indeed a political statement.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 22, 2017)

ddraig said:


> Who is the other far right activist in that video


Caolan Robertson. I've just spent a very unedifying few minutes reading through his twitter feed.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

ddraig said:


> Who is the other far right activist in that video


Seems like it may be some sort of Milo tribute act?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

cyril_smear said:


> Maximum publicitty as well, whch I assume would factor into the rationale of somebody wantng to make some kind of political statement, if it is indeed a political statement.


if it is a terrorist act then it is a political statement


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Indeed.




Can someone double check?

I'm 99.9% certain the cunt with a microphone is this guy




Alt Right "journalist" Last in Dublin at the strike for repeal the 8th where he admitted he was paid to film by an American pro life group.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

looks a bit like a young david hasselhoff only without the hoff's charm and political nous.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 22, 2017)

Thanks Fridgey!


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> the hoff's charm and political nous.



Cheers dude


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

The lad's clearly not adopted...


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 22, 2017)

BBC _speculating_ there are 2 terror suspects involved...


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> BBC _speculating_


that's our tune


----------



## Reiabuzz (Mar 22, 2017)

bimble said:


> DM is going with 'Asian knifeman' and its comments know exactly what's going on, of course.
> Does anyone understand if he was shot dead or just shot?




I assume this is the guy





http://ec.tynt.com/b/rf?id=bBOTTqvd0r3Pooab7jrHcU&u=DailyMail


----------



## rubbershoes (Mar 22, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> BBC _speculating_ there are 2 terror suspects involved...




With all the coppers and CCTV around you'd think they'd have seen how many attackers there were


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

rubbershoes said:


> With all the coppers and CCTV around you'd think they'd have seen how many attackers there were


even the slowest cop can surely count to two.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> looks a bit like a young david hasselhoff only without the hoff's charm and political nous.



Complete shit and utter moron his colleague bragged on social media that they were brought over to Ireland to film a piece for the rebel. And he has ties to Tommy Robinson.

Apparently they didn't cop on that letting us tie both the American Fundamentalist Anti Abortion lobby to the British Far right, and youth defence, might not be a combination that would go down well in Ireland.

Anway wayyy too much of a tangent.


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 22, 2017)

rubbershoes said:


> With all the coppers and CCTV around you'd think they'd have seen how many attackers there were


Apparently it's coming from witness reports, so nothing remotely official yet.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

Reiabuzz said:


> I assume this is the guy



That's one hell of a picture.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 22, 2017)

Reporter saying that the London Eye passengers are still being kept inside their pods.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Apparently it's coming from witness reports, so nothing remotely official yet.



BBC have several eyewitnesses saying it was 2 attackers.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

Never mind all those 'ordinary people' mown down on the bridge...here's the real story...


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 22, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Reporter saying that the London Eye passengers are still being kept inside their pods.


Limited toilet facilities....


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Reporter saying that the London Eye passengers are still being kept inside their pods.



Poor sods, the normal 30 minute 'flight' feels like the best part of a lifetime as it is


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Poor sods, the normal 30 minute 'flight' feels like the best part of a lifetime as it is


and no latrines


----------



## bimble (Mar 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> That's one hell of a picture.


yep. His shoes sitting there not matching the rest of the all black outfit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

bimble said:


> yep. His shoes sitting there not matching the rest of the all black outfit.


yeh but colour coordination not on the jihadi syllabus


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> and no latrines


I was going to post a picture of a waterwheel, but thought better of it.


----------



## urbanspaceman (Mar 22, 2017)

At least there's one thing we can be sure of: this incident has nothing to do with Islam.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I was going to post a picture of a waterwheel, but thought better of it.


that's ok, i can go to the loo when i want.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

urbanspaceman said:


> At least there's one thing we can be sure of: this incident has nothing to do with Islam.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


>


yeh that was my response too.


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 22, 2017)

Police officer has died according to BBC.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 22, 2017)

cancelled The Chase. Those terrorists have gone too far this time.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

R4 "PM" is just a succession of cunts telling us they happened to be close to an incident in which people have died. It got to Gove, then I turned off.


----------



## bimble (Mar 22, 2017)

urbanspaceman said:


> At least there's one thing we can be sure of: this incident has nothing to do with Islam.


DM >>>>
Top comments on there are about how any minute now the libtard lefties will start claiming its about mental illness. Whole thing so depressing and idiotic, as if its either one or the other.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> R4 "PM" is just a succession of cunts telling us they happened to be close to an incident in which people have died. It got to Gove, then I turned off.



Mary Creagh MP keeps telling everyone she was single-handedly responsible for everything.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

bimble said:


> yep. His shoes sitting there not matching the rest of the all black outfit.





Pickman's model said:


> yeh but colour coordination not on the jihadi syllabus



Brown in town should never been seen - basic fail from our man there.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Police officer has died according to BBC.




Urban replies:


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> cancelled The Chase. Those terrorists have gone too far this time.


Those are the very freedoms our politicians sent other people's kids overseas to die for!


----------



## Supine (Mar 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Urban replies:



Tasteless. Shame on you.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Urban replies:


Don't be a cunt.


----------



## stuff_it (Mar 22, 2017)

bimble said:


> yep. His shoes sitting there not matching the rest of the all black outfit.


Clearly to make room for a sturdy pair of tinfoil socks.


----------



## B.I.G (Mar 22, 2017)

At least half of everyone on this thread is a cunt. Just like real life. I expected better.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

It get's better...


----------



## 1%er (Mar 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Does it matter? Westminster is crawling with plain clothes cops, for a just this situation.


That depends on what your asking that "matters", does it matter that it was plain clothes officers that stopped the threat, then I'd say no it doesn't matter, if your asking about the whole situation, including the full security situation, then I say it could matter a great deal. The Palace of Westminster should be one of the most secure places in the UK and this person appears to have got passed at least the first line of defense and into a heavily guarded area past numerous uniformed armed police.

We will have a better picture of if it "matters" or not when we have a fuller picture. But from a security view point it raises a few questions in my mind having worked in the security industry for many years.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> It get's better...





Quick turn around by George there, he's doing well.


----------



## Lurdan (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> It get's better...



According to Sky News Ellwood was giving 'mouth to mouth' to an injured policeman. 

(At least that was his version).


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 22, 2017)

BBC journo to eyewitness: "It's almost as if I can hear in your voice a sense of unreality?"


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Don't be a cunt.





Supine said:


> Tasteless. Shame on you.



I was counting the number of fucks given, between the news and my post: NONE.
So fuck you both.


----------



## TruXta (Mar 22, 2017)

Ellwood ex-Army man, so presumably knows a bit about 1st aid.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> It get's better...



"Hero MP's", I thought that was _Multitasking George Osborne_?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

TruXta said:


> Ellwood ex-Army man, so presumably knows a bit about 1st aid.


BBC claiming his 'heroic' expertise derived from the fact that his brother was killed in the Bali bombing.
FFS


----------



## T & P (Mar 22, 2017)

When you see paramedics hold a victim's legs up in the air in an attempt to send all available blood to the vital organs, things are usually very grim...


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> The lad's clearly not adopted...




snidely little shit is quoting an interview from last September- making out its what he said in response to this incident.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> It get's better...




Seems like he's doing chest compressions on someone with a chest wound. FYI folks, that's a bad idea.


----------



## TruXta (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> BBC claiming his 'heroic' expertise derived from the fact that his brother was killed in the Bali bombing.
> FFS


 was Ellwood in Bali during that episode as well?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> snidely little shit is quoting an interview from last September- making out its what he said in response to this incident.


Utter cuntery; funny that, given his genes..


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 22, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> snidely little shit is quoting an interview from last September- making out its what he said in response to this incident.




It's all over twatter.


Khan is right though, if your in a large city some cunt will inevitably be a cunt. The only way to eliminate 100% of attacks is to wipe out the human race.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

'kinnel; they're all out tonight...


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I was counting the number of fucks given, between the news and my post: NONE.
> So fuck you both.


People are dead, and your keenest inclination is to show up those cunts on urban, eh?


----------



## bimble (Mar 22, 2017)




----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> 'kinnel; they're all out tonight...




Jesus - these people cant help making it all about themselves can they?


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> 'kinnel; they're all out tonight...



5 minutes after posting that, literally, she was posting up an advert for her new book.

edit: ah, looks like a _pinned_ tweet.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> 'kinnel; they're all out tonight...



a reply:
A prayer is religious how can an atheist have a prayer book?'

someones never heard of the cult of reason


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I was counting the number of fucks given, between the news and my post: NONE.
> So fuck you both.


Who gave a fuck about Stephen Oake?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> People are dead, and your keenest inclination is to show up those cunts on urban, eh?



Show up those cunts on urban? You OK?


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> a reply:
> A prayer is religious how can an atheist have a prayer book?'
> 
> someones never heard of the cult of reason



She knows all about the cult of laurie penny though.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Show up those cunts on urban? You OK?


They slide Chinese writing under the door occasionally, but hey, it's a living.

I'm OK, are you?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> They slide Chinese writing under the door occasionally, but hey, it's a living.
> 
> I'm OK, are you?



Fucking tip-top fella, busy with work, but otherwise doing nicely thanks.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> a reply:
> A prayer is religious how can an atheist have a prayer book?'
> 
> someones never heard of the cult of reason


I've lots of books including a copy of the yazadi holy books, a quran, bibles - one in Maltese. Don't see the problem, they're books, right?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> 'kinnel; they're all out tonight...




She's the real victim here.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

I'm trying to imagine what George Galloway will post up to exploit this in his quest to get back into parliament. Really can't think what it will be, but I feel its coming.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> She's the real victim here.


As a fomer Urb, she should be in our prayers tonight.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I'm trying to imagine what George Galloway will post up to exploit this in his quest to get back into parliament. Really can't think what it will be, but I feel its coming.


I can feel it coming in the air tonight  oh lord


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 22, 2017)

Four dead - official now...


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I'm trying to imagine what George Galloway will post up to exploit this in his quest to get back into parliament. Really can't think what it will be, but I feel its coming.


actually, to be fair, for the moment he's a model of bland establishment decorum
George Galloway (@georgegalloway) on Twitter


----------



## twentythreedom (Mar 22, 2017)

Kay Burley is so horrifically bad, how does she keep her job? Don't they have anyone better they can send? Her giving commentary on some school kids being escorted from Hoc was pure cringe 

Eta: plod on TV saying 4 dead (Inc attacker)


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

EastEnder said:


> Four dead - official now...



Those poor French kids.


----------



## kebabking (Mar 22, 2017)

Police officer and assailant both killed, and two dead on the bridge.


----------



## Lurdan (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> actually, to be fair, for the moment he's a model of bland establishment decorum
> George Galloway (@georgegalloway) on Twitter



If only he'd take his own advice.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

NBC are reporting 4 day.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

kebabking said:


> Police officer and assailant both killed, and two dead on the bridge.


Arrests will doubtless follow


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> NBC are reporting 4 day.


And what is a 4 day?


----------



## stuff_it (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I've lots of books including a copy of the yazadi holy books, a quran, bibles - one in Maltese. Don't see the problem, they're books, right?


I heard that you can't keep them in the same room overnight during a full moon unless you chain them to their shelves.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

stuff_it said:


> I heard that you can't keep them in the same room overnight during a full moon unless you chain them to their shelves.


I keep mine in different rooms lest they fight on those nights


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> now there's tons of coppers there. why do they need so many? what do they actually do?


Overtime


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> actually, to be fair, for the moment he's a model of bland establishment decorum
> George Galloway (@georgegalloway) on Twitter


He's gone into Upstanding Model of Authority mode:


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> He's gone into Upstanding Model of Authority mode:



Indefatigable


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Seems like he's doing chest compressions on someone with a chest wound. FYI folks, that's a bad idea.


He was applying pressure, trying to stop the bleeding apparently.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> He's gone into Upstanding Model of Authority mode:



His avatar's an auld auld picture isn't it?


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> a reply:
> A prayer is religious how can an atheist have a prayer book?'
> 
> someones never heard of the cult of reason




You have to almost admire that degree of a lack of self awareness.


----------



## bimble (Mar 22, 2017)

bimble said:


> DM >>>>
> Top comments on there are about how any minute now the libtard lefties will start claiming its about mental illness. Whole thing so depressing and idiotic, as if its either one or the other.


Sorry for self-quote but, this is what Trump's secretary of state Rex Tillerson has just said, an ingenious way of negating and denying the complexity of the thing:
He said:
"We condemn these horrific acts of violence, and whether they were carried out by troubled individuals or by terrorists, the victims know no difference."


----------



## LDC (Mar 22, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Seems like he's doing chest compressions on someone with a chest wound. FYI folks, that's a bad idea.



No, it's not, at least if he was giving CPR in the the correct circumstances rather than incorrectly cos they were actually alive which I suspect is unlikely. CPR is for when they're technically dead. So making the chest injury worse is least of their worries. And given he looks like he's got blood on his face, the claim he was giving mouth to mouth is quite possible. Not heroic, but good on him for giving it a go.

<Sorry, medical pedantry mode off>


----------



## kebabking (Mar 22, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> ...Not heroic, but good on him for giving it a go.



To be fair, to do it in the street in the middle of what might well be an ongoing attack is pretty brave.

It turns out that it's almost certainly a 'lone cunt' attack, but no one would have known that at the time, and given the template of recently attacks, there just being one attacker would have been on the more unlikely end of the spectrum.

So yes, very brave - there would have been no end of places to hide, but he chose not to.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)




----------



## bi0boy (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> View attachment 102723



It's like that most afternoons ime


----------



## Wookey (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> View attachment 102723



The same as every day then.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> View attachment 102723


It's always like that on the tube.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> His avatar's an auld auld picture isn't it?


yeah theres a deal more salt n peppa to his beardage now


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 22, 2017)

.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 22, 2017)

Wookey said:


> The same as every day then.


sadness in their eyes


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Wookey said:


> The same as every day then.


Quieter than most...


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> sadness in their eyes


Fucking with the fares these days, of course


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> .


Good point well made


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> It's like that most afternoons ime



Yeah. I did live in London for 8 years. 

I presumed everyone would get the joke.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> You have to almost admire that degree of a lack of self awareness.
> 
> View attachment 102721


Someone tell her to shut the fuck up, for fuck's sake.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 22, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> It's like that most afternoons ime





Spymaster said:


> It's always like that on the tube.




I assumed that was the joke... apologises if it was serious.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> Someone tell her to shut the fuck up, for fuck's sake.



She is honestly the closest thing the left has to Kay Burley.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> I assumed that was the joke... apologises if it was serious.



That was the joke...only the guy who posted it on twitter was genuine.


----------



## A380 (Mar 22, 2017)

malatesta32 said:


> now there's tons of coppers there. why do they need so many? what do they actually do?


Stop other people getting stabbed or run over if there was another attacker, even if that means getting stabbed or run over themselves?

Supporting LAS, LFB and members of the public in giving first aid to stop people bleeding out? 

Finding out as quickly as possible if anyone else was involved and is planning to stab or run over more people and stop them doing it? 

Aside from that, probably nothing.


----------



## Mr Moose (Mar 22, 2017)

Sites now claiming to name the attacker. A familiar face.

London terror attack: who is he?

To his Mum? Trevor.


----------



## Old Spark (Mar 22, 2017)

C4 named him as Trevor Brooks 

Abu Izzadeen - Wikipedia


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 22, 2017)

yup trevor brooks- convert, not unfamiliar, wanker


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

Mr Moose said:


> Sites now claiming to name the attacker. A familiar face.
> 
> London terror attack: who is he?
> 
> To his Mum? Trevor.


Here's the TrevTwat








> The man believed to behind this morning's London terror attack is Abu Izzadeen, a hate preacher from London.
> 
> The alleged attacker has died following the incident outside the UK Parliament.
> Izzadeen is a British spokesman for Muslim organisation Al Ghurabaa - a group banned under the Terrorism Act 2006 for glorifying terrorist attacks.
> ...


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

So that's Jamaica in Asia, then?


----------



## Indeliblelink (Mar 22, 2017)

He was sentenced to two years in prison in Jan 2016, i guess he he hasn't been out long
Islamic extremists jailed for "serious" breach of counter-terrorism restriction


----------



## A380 (Mar 22, 2017)

And again as someone more eloquent than me said on here before.

Fuck you you cunt. You won't make us hate our neighbors.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 22, 2017)

This is a bit weird

Chilling 4chan post appears to predict Westminster attack


----------



## OneStrike (Mar 22, 2017)

If it was him, wow.  He's practically a celeb jihadist, though I suppose it isn't possible to stop such a basic attack without internment or other such draconian laws.


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> Someone tell her to shut the fuck up, for fuck's sake.



If you did, she'd file a think piece about what her being told to shut the fuck up was symptomatic of.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

teqniq said:


> This is a bit weird
> 
> Chilling 4chan post appears to predict Westminster attack


Indy clickbait


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> That was the joke...only the guy who posted it on twitter was genuine.




Jaysus what a muppet.


----------



## Supine (Mar 22, 2017)

teqniq said:


> This is a bit weird
> 
> Chilling 4chan post appears to predict Westminster attack



That is weird


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 22, 2017)

teqniq said:


> This is a bit weird
> 
> Chilling 4chan post appears to predict Westminster attack



There's stuff like that posted on the chan every 20 minutes. Especially on /pol/ which is a beacon of pseudo-right wing cockery and baiting for replies.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Indy clickbait


Maybe, but still weird. 4chan after all is known as a haunt of right-wing loony tunes.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)




----------



## Cloo (Mar 22, 2017)

My office is remaining shut tomorrow, so sounds like they are keeping the area on alert.


----------



## Mr Moose (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


>




Either a premature report then or he's the world's shittest solicitor.


----------



## Mr Moose (Mar 22, 2017)

Cloo said:


> My office is remaining shut tomorrow, so sounds like they are keeping the area on alert.



Bloody hell. If they behaved liked that in WW2 we'd all be speaking German now.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Mar 22, 2017)

C4 dropped a bollock


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> So that's Jamaica in Asia, then?


Scratch that.
Shonky journalism; he's still in nick!


----------



## treelover (Mar 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Urban replies:



Speak for your fucking self, tell his family that,


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

sunnysidedown said:


> C4 dropped a bollock


Simon Israel looked like he'd beshit himself.


----------



## Old Spark (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Scratch that.
> Shonky journalism; he's still in nick!



Serving a second sentence.He was supposed to have told authorities when he left uk but was arrested in hungary in 2015.


----------



## treelover (Mar 22, 2017)

Old Spark said:


> C4 named him as Trevor Brooks
> 
> Abu Izzadeen - Wikipedia





> On 20 September 2006, Abu Izadeen and Anjem Choudary disrupted Home Secretary John Reid's first public meeting with Muslims since his appointment. He called Reid an "enemy" of Islam.[12] John Humphrys interviewed Izzadeen on the 22 September 2006 edition of BBC Radio 4's _Today_ programme. In a heated discussion Abu Izzadeen stated that his aim was to bring about Sharia law in the UK and that this should be achieved without following the democratic process but rather "in accordance to the Islamic methodology".[13]
> 
> *Arrests*




Remember him well on the news that day


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 22, 2017)

It it transpires that this horror is the responsibility of Islamic extremists it ought to underline the case against the UK arming Islamic extremists.


----------



## Old Spark (Mar 22, 2017)

sunnysidedown said:


> C4 dropped a bollock



Perhaps not surprising its not old trev -the hate preachers like to give it big but prefer to find a useful idiot to do the deed.


----------



## flypanam (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> Can someone double check?
> 
> I'm 99.9% certain the cunt with a microphone is this guy
> 
> ...


Caolan Robertson utter scum.


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 22, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It it transpires that this horror is the responsibility of Islamic extremists it ought to underline the case against the UK arming Islamic extremists.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> Here's the TrevTwat


A mite premature perhaps


----------



## pk (Mar 22, 2017)

Abu Izzadeen is the name being touted by PrisonPlanet and other fake news sites.

As much as I hope Abu Izzadeen is dead, I actually hope it isn't him, this way PrisonPlanet and similar conspiracy sourced bollocks won't again be repeated on more reputable news channels.

If it is him - then PrisonPlanet get taken more seriously. And lets face it, Trump/Brexit gained much traction thanks to the mentally unstable conspiracy theorists we all know about.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 22, 2017)

treelover said:


> Speak for your fucking self, tell his family that,



When a copper has been killed by an Islamist, not really a great time to go around ACABing.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 22, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> It it transpires that this horror is the responsibility of Islamic extremists it ought to underline the case against the UK arming Islamic extremists.



That's never been how these things have worked out in the past.


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Mar 22, 2017)

Does anyone want to fill me in on known facts?   I was working late, phone out of juice and not really paying attention. Then I got home and Facebook is full of checking in and London posts.	Too tired to go trawling news so  a summary appreciated


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 22, 2017)

EastEnder said:


>



Put somewhat sarcastically, if you want to make a theological or political case that the Saudi regime is moderate, go ahead.

The Saudis are heavily linked to ISIS and 911. It is the most reactionary islamic state on the planet. 

The UK arms them to the hilt, including the current disgusting spectacle in Yemen.

Your puzzlement is typical enough. Not only do we openly support and arm islamic extremsism, people aren't even generally aware of it.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 22, 2017)

Miss-Shelf said:


> Does anyone want to fill me in on known facts?   I was working late, phone out of juice and not really paying attention. Then I got home and Facebook is full of checking in and London posts.	Too tired to go trawling news so  a summary appreciated



Westminster is still standing & all the cunts in it still alive.


----------



## 8den (Mar 22, 2017)

Miss-Shelf said:


> Does anyone want to fill me in on known facts?   I was working late, phone out of juice and not really paying attention. Then I got home and Facebook is full of checking in and London posts.	Too tired to go trawling news so  a summary appreciated



Terror attack outside parliament, one suspect, still not confirmed, 4 dead, inc suspect, police and two civilians, about 10 more injured.


----------



## Andrew Hertford (Mar 22, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Westminster is still standing & all the cunts in it still alive.



Twat.


----------



## Geri (Mar 22, 2017)

Has anyone checked his cell?


----------



## Voley (Mar 22, 2017)

Miss-Shelf said:


> Does anyone want to fill me in on known facts?   I was working late, phone out of juice and not really paying attention. Then I got home and Facebook is full of checking in and London posts.	Too tired to go trawling news so  a summary appreciated


 In one page the
BBC Summary isn't bad.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 22, 2017)

Miss-Shelf said:


> Does anyone want to fill me in on known facts?   I was working late, phone out of juice and not really paying attention. Then I got home and Facebook is full of checking in and London posts.	Too tired to go trawling news so  a summary appreciated



Dude drove across Westminster Bridge on the pavement, hitting pedestrians. Two people died here, and approx twenty injured, including a woman who was rescued - seriously injured - from the river below. The vehicle then crashes into the fence at the Houses of parliament. Dude legs it into the grounds of Parliament, fatally stabs a policeman, and is killed by gunfire in response.

Some of the other victims are in really bad condition, and include some French schoolkids on a trip.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 22, 2017)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Twat.



Fuck off Andrew.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Mar 22, 2017)

They aren't showing c4+1 news? It started, then cut to this?


----------



## chandlerp (Mar 22, 2017)

That's because they went all out blaming someone who happened to be in jail


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Andrew Hertford said:


> Twat.


No words for the dead or injured. I see where your priorities lie. And lie.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 22, 2017)

There is probably lots of frantic editing going on considering the earlier cock-up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Mumbles274 said:


> They aren't showing c4+1 news? It started, then cut to this?


London Bridge is falling down


----------



## Miss-Shelf (Mar 22, 2017)

Thank you 8den Mr.Bishie Voley and TheHoodedClaw  that has filled me in enough that i can go to bed without more news updates


----------



## T & P (Mar 22, 2017)

One of the pictures on the news reports showed a man who'd perhaps fallen or been thrown by the car's impact into a set of stairs leading into the embankment. Looked pretty grim


----------



## kebabking (Mar 22, 2017)

Miss-Shelf said:


> Does anyone want to fill me in on known facts?   I was working late, phone out of juice and not really paying attention. Then I got home and Facebook is full of checking in and London posts.	Too tired to go trawling news so  a summary appreciated



Normal caveats apply...

 Vehicle travels north over Westminster bridge, mounts pavement into a load of tourists and a group of coppers on their way back from a commendation ceremony - 2 killed there and another dozen or so injured, some critically.

Vehicle then continues to the main vehicle entrance to Parliament - rams the gate and stops, the lone occupant jumps out and attacks one of the uniformed police officers with a knife/machete. Plain clothes police officers shoot the attacker about 20 seconds after this second attack begins.

The police officer and the attacker both died.

The Police are/have searched the whole of the palace of Westminster to be absolutely sure that the attacker was on his own - lots of chaos being the ideal opportunity to sneak someone with a suicide vest into Parliament.

The car is still at the gate, not only is it crime scene, but the concern would be that it was rigged up as a car bomb.

Short version.


----------



## juice_terry (Mar 22, 2017)

Why has channel 4 news been taken off air on +1?? 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 22, 2017)

chandlerp said:


> That's because they went all out blaming someone who happened to be in jail


It's like people never fucking learn at all.

In fact it's that they don't care.


----------



## juice_terry (Mar 22, 2017)

Sorry just seen why 

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk


----------



## Mumbles274 (Mar 22, 2017)

chandlerp said:


> That's because they went all out blaming someone who happened to be in jail


Thought that's what it was piecing back through the thread, ta


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It's like people never fucking learn at all.
> 
> In fact it's that they don't care.


Hope someone's managed to capture all the interviews with the RUSI *experts* etc. who were explaining the (wrongly) alleged's motivation etc.


----------



## A380 (Mar 22, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Urban replies:



Really? Really? I suppose you could argue that 'the man' shouldn't get in the way of people who want to stab and run over people going about their lives.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

Lot's of _Butchers' aprons _all over twatter tonight...including...


----------



## Geri (Mar 22, 2017)

T & P said:


> One of the pictures on the news reports showed a man who'd perhaps fallen or been thrown by the car's impact into a set of stairs leading into the embankment. Looked pretty grim


 
Someone shared some footage of people lying injured, possibly dead. One was under a bus. It was pretty bad and I reported it to Facebook. I don't know what the fuck possesses anyone to walk past a load of injured or dying people and film it and then upload it to Facebook. Sick.


----------



## kebabking (Mar 22, 2017)

Geri said:


> Someone shared some footage of people lying injured, possibly dead. One was under a bus. It was pretty bad and I reported it to Facebook. I don't know what the fuck possesses anyone to walk past a load of injured or dying people and film it and then upload it to Facebook. Sick.



The ex foreign minister of Poland - chap called Sikorski - was driving past in a taxi as the car mounted the pavement and people were being hit and thrown left, right and centre. He decided to take the opportunity to film the event...


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

Mumbles274 said:


> They aren't showing c4+1 news? It started, then cut to this?


You could have sided the pots before taking that picture. Standards.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Mar 22, 2017)

Geri said:


> Someone shared some footage of people lying injured, possibly dead. One was under a bus. It was pretty bad and I reported it to Facebook. I don't know what the fuck possesses anyone to walk past a load of injured or dying people and film it and then upload it to Facebook. Sick.


Reuters have posted some indefensible pictures of this on their Instagram account.
I honestly detest the people who go about photographing people in their moments of distress, crisis and vulnerability. Detest them. There's something altogether callous which makes people think they have the right to photograph others in such states and to spread them online when they can't possibly have their consent is fucking low. If I saw it happening I'd like to think I'd fuck their phones off the bridge.
But I'm probably too mild mannered to do that


----------



## a_chap (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Never mind all those 'ordinary people' mown down on the bridge...here's the real story...




According to the BBC news he gave CPR for 15 mins. And, judging by the photo, got the victim's blood on his face and around his mouth.

Me? I think that deserves some respect.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

a_chap said:


> According to the BBC news he gave CPR for 15 mins. And, judging by the photo, got the victim's blood on his face and around his mouth.
> 
> Me? I think that deserves some respect.


You may well be right there. The post you replied to (hopefully) said more about the media than the man.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

Simon Israel on his knees:


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> ... sided the pots ...


What does that mean?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 22, 2017)

A380 said:


> Really? Really? I suppose you could argue that 'the man' shouldn't get in the way of people who want to stab and run over people going about their lives.



Or you could point out that between the post breaking the news of the dead copper and mine, urban gave no fucks about yon pig.


----------



## Sirena (Mar 22, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> What does that mean?


Yorkshire thing, I think..... Setting the table maybe.


----------



## tim (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> As a fomer Urb, she should be in our prayers tonight.



Penny and Paddick the Urban 75 spokespeople


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> What does that mean?


*Yorkshire			 term Definition*
sam/			 sam up collect			 together/ tidy away
sarnies sandwiches
Scotch			 yows ewes
scran food
seethee do			 you see? (often used at the end of a sentence)
sh'			 in't in she			 isn't in
shoon,			 shooin
shoes
*side/			 side the pots clear/			 clear the table*


----------



## treelover (Mar 22, 2017)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Reuters have posted some indefensible pictures of this on their Instagram account.
> I honestly detest the people who go about photographing people in their moments of distress, crisis and vulnerability. Detest them. There's something altogether callous which makes people think they have the right to photograph others in such states and to spread them online when they can't possibly have their consent is fucking low. If I saw it happening I'd like to think I'd fuck their phones off the bridge.
> But I'm probably too mild mannered to do that




yes, even if you took the images in the 'spur of the moment' then editing and putting them on social media is just not right.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

Geri said:


> Someone shared some footage of people lying injured, possibly dead. One was under a bus. It was pretty bad and I reported it to Facebook. I don't know what the fuck possesses anyone to walk past a load of injured or dying people and film it and then upload it to Facebook. Sick.


Unfriend twats like that


----------



## Geri (Mar 22, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Unfriend twats like that


 
It wasn't a friend, it was London Black Revs.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 22, 2017)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Reuters have posted some indefensible pictures of this on their Instagram account.



It's defensible, I think, for Reuters/PA/AFP etc to upload raw stuff up onto the news wires. Their instagram account, not so much perhaps.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 22, 2017)

There was a really bad one I saw from Reuters (retweeted by the @nytimesphoto account on Twitter, which has a number of them) with an injured women lying on the ground, being helped by somebody, looking at the camera. That particularly got to me. I still don't think those sort of pictures should be restricted in any way though.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

_The i Paper _was going with this _rather strong_ image as their cover tomorrow, but after feedback editor Oly Duff appears to have decided that a redesign is in order:



Spoiler: Viewer discretion etc


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> _The i Paper _was going with this _rather strong_ image as their cover tomorrow, but after feedback editor Oly Duff appears to have decided that a redesign is in order:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



FFS! Not sure if that that was someone who died or 'just' injured, doesn't really matter. Somehow worse by just showing a detail.  You can't run a paper with the question of 'what would the victim's family think about that', but sometimes...


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 22, 2017)

It's a shitty clichéd "strong image". Doesn't surprise me at all that they were going to use it.


----------



## T & P (Mar 22, 2017)

It's a funny thing isn't it. I think most of us will 'happily' (for want of a better word) watch mobile phone footage of a major news event shot by witnesses. Not necessarily gory of course, but one that shows the heat of the moment. And yet, I can't help thinking you'd have to be a bit of a wrong'un to be filming casualties on the ground or people in panic/distress, even if it didn't show any graphic details.

I'd certainly would like to think I'd never consider getting my phone out and start filming if I got caught up in such situation. And yet I feel guilty by being grateful (again, for want of a better word) that others did just that, especially if theirs was the only footage available of that particular aspect of the incident.


----------



## TruXta (Mar 22, 2017)

Seeing is believing?


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

T & P said:


> It's a funny thing isn't it. I think most of us will 'happily' (for want of a better word) watch mobile phone footage of a major news event shot by witnesses. Not necessarily gory of course, but one that shows the heat of the moment. And yet, I can't help thinking you'd have to be a bit of a wrong'un to be filming casualties on the ground or people in panic/distress, even if it didn't show any graphic details.
> 
> I'd certainly would like to think I'd never consider getting my phone out and start filming if I got caught up in such situation. And yet I feel guilty by being grateful (again, for want of a better word) that others did just that, especially if theirs was the only footage available of that particular aspect of the incident.


I saw a distressed-looking man on top of a building in central London a couple of years ago and loads of twats had their mobiles out filming him. I can kind of understand the situations that you describe above, but that was sheer prurience at someone's evident distress and potential suicide.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

TruXta said:


> Seeing is believing?


i suppose it is good that people film incidents like this though, as they might be useful as evidence. Publishing them on social media is a different matter.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

bimble said:


> View attachment 102718


 but also:


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Mar 22, 2017)

People don't view reality through their smartphones. They film it, but don't address the real situation. Like watching a distant war on TV. You aren't there. You won't get harmed - it doesn't affect you.

Those of us watching on the internet are probably closer to the truth than the person filming in a way. Other sources are conveying much more information for us to build the truth from. Things correlate, it makes sense. The person filming won't be receiving nearly as much background info'.

That and the fact that all smartphone users know they have to film events to prove they were there on Facebook later.


----------



## Athos (Mar 22, 2017)

Stanley Edwards said:


> People don't view reality through their smartphones. They film it, but don't address the real situation. Like watching a distant war on TV. You aren't there. You won't get harmed - it doesn't affect you.
> 
> Those of us watching on the internet are probably closer to the truth than the person filming in a way. Other sources are conveying much more information for us to build the truth from. Things correlate, it makes sense. The person filming won't be receiving nearly as much background info'.
> 
> That and the fact that all smartphone users know they have to film events to prove they were there on Facebook later.



I dread to think what you film on your smartphone.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 22, 2017)

Stanley Edwards said:


> People don't view reality through their smartphones. They film it, but don't address the real situation. Like watching a distant war on TV. You aren't there. You won't get harmed - it doesn't affect you.
> 
> Those of us watching on the internet are probably closer to the truth than the person filming in a way. Other sources are conveying much more information for us to build the truth from. Things correlate, it makes sense. The person filming won't be receiving nearly as much background info'.
> 
> That and the fact that all smartphone users know they have to film events to prove they were there on Facebook later.


Middle paragraph is okay. The others are rubbish.


----------



## TruXta (Mar 22, 2017)

Stanley Edwards said:


> People don't view reality through their smartphones. They film it, but don't address the real situation. Like watching a distant war on TV. You aren't there. You won't get harmed - it doesn't affect you.
> 
> Those of us watching on the internet are probably closer to the truth than the person filming in a way. Other sources are conveying much more information for us to build the truth from. Things correlate, it makes sense. The person filming won't be receiving nearly as much background info'.
> 
> That and the fact that all smartphone users know they have to film events to prove they were there on Facebook later.


Wow, you get thicker and thicker. What about a regular photojournalist - are they the same? Are they not "addressing the real situation"? Are they not affected? 

Actually don't bother replying.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

Just listening to May on the itv news. Utterly predictable statement with her voice cracking at the 'right moments'. But it was a speech by numbers, police who protect us, value our freedoms,  even 'mother of all parliaments'.   Can't manage to say anything direct and human about the victims - and in the bit I heard, almost ignores the victims on the bridge.  I'm not making some cheap anticapitalist point, she just had _completely_ the wrong tone.


----------



## Voley (Mar 22, 2017)

Not sure where you draw the line with this tbh. That photo of Alan the poor little refugee lad dead on a beach prompted similar comments here initially. ''I don't want to see that on my FB page'' etc. But I think that photo started to change people's minds about the refugee crisis and ultimately did a lot of good. Can't see any of the photos mentioned above having a similar impact tbh but the photographer who took Alan's photo may have appeared incredibly callous at the time too.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 22, 2017)

Praises the emergency services while cutting their budgets.


----------



## TruXta (Mar 22, 2017)

Alan. Alan Kurdi.


----------



## stuff_it (Mar 22, 2017)

8den said:


> View attachment 102723


Isn't the tube always like that?


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 22, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> ok can we start the thread again please



Why? because Pickmans opened his gob on it?


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 22, 2017)

Without photojournalism the world is blind.


----------



## Voley (Mar 22, 2017)

TruXta said:


> Alan. Alan Kurdi.


Edited, ta. Think he was initially reported as being called 'Aylan' which is where I got that from.


----------



## T & P (Mar 22, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I saw a distressed-looking man on top of a building in central London a couple of years ago and loads of twats had their mobiles out filming him. I can kind of understand the situations that you describe above, but that was sheer prurience at someone's evident distress and potential suicide.


Yeah agree, in the situation you describe you'd have to be a cunt in my book to start filming.


----------



## Geri (Mar 22, 2017)

People in Syria want us to see their photos and film of atrocities to spread awareness. That isn't the case here, we are all aware of what happened today. At least the mainstream news blur people's faces so they can't be identified. People sharing it on social media have no idea who will see it and what kind of upset it can cause.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Mar 22, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> There was a really bad one I saw from Reuters (retweeted by the @nytimesphoto account on Twitter, which has a number of them) with an injured women lying on the ground, being helped by somebody, looking at the camera. That particularly got to me. I still don't think those sort of pictures should be restricted in any way though.



That pic was posted on here earlier by editor but seems to have been deleted


----------



## TruXta (Mar 22, 2017)

Voley said:


> Edited, ta. Think he was initially reported as being called 'Aylan' which is where I got that from.


No worries. Could be that in the transliteration from Arabic his original name has been distorted somewhat.


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Mar 22, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Middle paragraph is okay. The others are rubbish.



I was being a little flippant around the edges there. Flippant about important stuff mind. Go ask the majority of younger people with smartphones what they think about what's happening in Syria. Listen to their replies.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> there's no set number, but at least one bomb has to go off or an automatic weapon used. this sort of thing's in the great british jihadi tradition of incompetence, which has seen numerous attempts to emulate 7/7 but have met with such scant success.



Tell that to the families of the maimed and dead on the bridge, who are reported to possibly include school children from France. This cannot be played down because the terrorist mindset will see it as a coup due to the symbolic nature of the target, ie, houses of parliemant, where the killer got into the grounds. It cannot be measured by size of bomb or number of victims.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 22, 2017)

Reiabuzz said:


> That pic was posted on here earlier by editor but seems to have been deleted


It was still on the NYT photo page when I wrote the post - might not be on the twitter feed. They have a gallery of London pics. They're all agency shots of course, I think all Reuters.


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Mar 22, 2017)

TruXta said:


> Wow, you get thicker and thicker. What about a regular photojournalist - are they the same? Are they not "addressing the real situation"? Are they not affected?
> 
> Actually don't bother replying.



I'm replying.

'Regular' photo-journalists as you call them have spent years learning. They rarely just find themselves in a sporadic situation, they travel to find what needs to be recorded from the viewpoint of themselves, or the people they work for. They are much more aware of the reality and have a great deal of background information to work from.


----------



## TruXta (Mar 22, 2017)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 22, 2017)

Stanley Edwards said:


> I was being a little flippant around the edges there. Flippant about important stuff mind. Go ask the majority of younger people with smartphones what they think about what's happening in Syria. Listen to their replies.


You don't even have a bloody smartphone.


----------



## chandlerp (Mar 22, 2017)

Assistant commissioner talking live now confirms now 5 dead and around forty injured including two police officers in serious condition


----------



## kenny g (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Just listening to May on the itv news. Utterly predictable statement with her voice cracking at the 'right moments'. But it was a speech by numbers, police who protect us, value our freedoms,  even 'mother of all parliaments'.   Can't manage to say anything direct and human about the victims - and in the bit I heard, almost ignores the victims on the bridge.  I'm not making some cheap anticapitalist point, she just had _completely_ the wrong tone.


 May is truly horrible but it is amazing that corbyn appears even worse. He was terrible.


----------



## Reiabuzz (Mar 22, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It was still on the NYT photo page when I wrote the post - might not be on the twitter feed. They have a gallery of London pics. They're all agency shots of course, I think all Reuters.



Most news outlets have pixelated her face. It wasn't here. The one posted here had her staring at the camera in what can only be described as a dead eyed way. Not fair on the young lady imo to be posting shit like that, pixelated or not.


----------



## chilango (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Just listening to May on the itv news. Utterly predictable statement with her voice cracking at the 'right moments'. But it was a speech by numbers, police who protect us, value our freedoms,  even 'mother of all parliaments'.   Can't manage to say anything direct and human about the victims - and in the bit I heard, almost ignores the victims on the bridge.  I'm not making some cheap anticapitalist point, she just had _completely_ the wrong tone.



Her and Amber Rudd both listed the official "fundamental British values" that schools are forced to promote word for word as if learnt by rote.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> This cannot be played down because the terrorist mindset will see it as a coup due to the symbolic nature of the target, ie, houses of parliemant, where the killer got into the grounds. It cannot be measured by size of bomb or number of victims.


Ffs, the countryside alliance got into the chamber of the house of commons, yer man today only got a few yards into some outer courtyard. Catch yourself on, if you can.


----------



## Stanley Edwards (Mar 22, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You don't even have a bloody smartphone.



I've seen pictures of them


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Why? because Pickmans opened his gob on it?


And so the alt right cheerleader arrived at last


----------



## A380 (Mar 22, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Praises the emergency services while cutting their budgets.


Definitely this ^^


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> Reuters have posted some indefensible pictures of this on their Instagram account.
> I honestly detest the people who go about photographing people in their moments of distress, crisis and vulnerability. Detest them. There's something altogether callous which makes people think they have the right to photograph others in such states and to spread them online when they can't possibly have their consent is fucking low. If I saw it happening I'd like to think I'd fuck their phones off the bridge.
> But I'm probably too mild mannered to do that


As the law stands if you're in a public place you're considered to be 'fair game' and no consent needed.


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> As the law stands if you're in a public place you're fair game: no consent needed


I generally don't give a fig for the law. I do, however, give many many figs for decency, compassion, ethics, morality...


----------



## gosub (Mar 22, 2017)

kenny g said:


> May is truly horrible but it is amazing that corbyn appears even worse. He was terrible.


I don't know, he twigged the bridge was the bigger story.. But security concerns and an inquiry-they did bloody well.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

chandlerp said:


> Assistant commissioner talking live now confirms now 5 dead and around forty injured including two police officers in serious condition


Met saying one of the dead a 15 year veteran of PaDP:


----------



## gosub (Mar 22, 2017)

Grant Shapps is a twat.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

kenny g said:


> May is truly horrible but it is amazing that corbyn appears even worse. He was terrible.


Just heard a clip of Corbyn. No way of knowing the full extent of what he said, but in the bit shown he said all the right things about 'everybody being safe, inside parliament and out'.  What he said was fine, but to be honest he sounded dreadful.  He actually looked quite upset.

By contrast, that cunt shapps on at the moment. He's _fucking loving it_. Utter scum.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 22, 2017)

Katie Hopkins has outdone herself I see. I won't link, but go see for yourself. It's absolute drivel.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

I'm feeling a bit nauseous listening to Peston at the moment too.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

Pretty robust ITV story summarising the day's events - long on piecing together what happened from available evidence, short on wild-eyed speculation.

Westminster terror attack: Five dead as pedestrians mowed down and police officer stabbed


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> I generally don't give a fig for the law. I do, however, give many many figs for decency, compassion, ethics, morality...


Yeh. But even more than military intelligence journalistic ethics are an oxymoron


----------



## cantsin (Mar 22, 2017)

Tommy Robinson was on the scene v quick. And has a new pal by the looks of it, anyone know of him ? Caolan Robertson 

EDL Leader Stephen Lennon, AKA Tommy Robinson, Jailed For 10 Months For False Passport | The Huffington Post


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

cantsin said:


> Tommy Robinson was on the scene v quick. And has a new pal by the looks of it, anyone know of him ? Caolan Robertson
> 
> EDL Leader Stephen Lennon, AKA Tommy Robinson, Jailed For 10 Months For False Passport | The Huffington Post


Yeh see upthread


----------



## gosub (Mar 22, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Just heard a clip of Corbyn. No way of knowing the full extent of what he said, but in the bit shown he said all the right things about 'everybody being safe, inside parliament and out'.  What he said was fine, but to be honest he sounded dreadful.  He actually looked quite upset.
> 
> By contrast, that cunt shapps on at the moment. He's _fucking loving it_. Utter scum.


You know the arsehole journo that gets decked at the end of the first two die hards... That's Grant Shapps that is


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Katie Hopkins has outdone herself I see. I won't link, but go see for yourself. It's absolute drivel.


Poor jack monroe blamed for this too I suppose


----------



## gosub (Mar 22, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Katie Hopkins has outdone herself I see. I won't link, but go see for yourself. It's absolute drivel.


No thank you. 

I'll wait until if and when it gets her in court (again)


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 22, 2017)

wiskey said:


> for those interested in the roles of the emergency services at MI's the LESLP MIP lays it all out. I dk if it's publicly available, it's a bit of a tome.



This?

http://www.met.police.uk/leslp/docs/major-incident-procedure-manual-9th-ed.pdf


----------



## cantsin (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh see upthread



inevitably, apols to all


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 22, 2017)

cantsin said:


> inevitably, apols to all


Worth going back up for, 8den posted some useful info


----------



## cantsin (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Worth going back up for, 8den posted some useful info



ta, will do


----------



## JimW (Mar 22, 2017)




----------



## A380 (Mar 22, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> This?
> 
> http://www.met.police.uk/leslp/docs/major-incident-procedure-manual-9th-ed.pdf


And this is the national doctrine on how the Emergency Services should respond together.

http://www.jesip.org.uk/uploads/med...erability_Framework_[edition_2-July-2016].pdf


----------



## ddraig (Mar 22, 2017)

He got a fair distance from the crash to an entrance didn't he? usually plod with guns at the entrances or near by when I've been past


----------



## CRI (Mar 22, 2017)

Seems this shit stain waded in within a couple hours of the first report


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 22, 2017)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> I generally don't give a fig for the law. I do, however, give many many figs for decency, compassion, ethics, morality...



When the Glasgow bin lorry incident happened a few years ago, one of the Scottish papers quickly published online some graphic eye-witness testimony (words, no pics) about the utterly horrific last moments of one of the victims. A relative or friend quickly looking up stuff to find out what the fuck had just happened in Glasgow would likely have read that (because it was one of the top news results - that's how I came to read it), and who the victim was became absolutely clear once the names and pictures were released.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> A mite premature perhaps


He's still the TrevTwat though.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

T & P said:


> It's a funny thing isn't it. I think most of us will 'happily' (for want of a better word) watch mobile phone footage of a major news event shot by witnesses. Not necessarily gory of course, but one that shows the heat of the moment. And yet, I can't help thinking you'd have to be a bit of a wrong'un to be filming casualties on the ground or people in panic/distress, even if it didn't show any graphic details.
> 
> I'd certainly would like to think I'd never consider getting my phone out and start filming if I got caught up in such situation. And yet I feel guilty by being grateful (again, for want of a better word) that others did just that, especially if theirs was the only footage available of that particular aspect of the incident.


A photographer friend of mine was caught up in the Brixton nail bomb. He didn't take any pictures and went to help the injured people. Pretty sure I'd do the same. That said, sometimes these things need to be documented. It's a tricky balance.


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

Voley said:


> Not sure where you draw the line with this tbh. That photo of Alan the poor little refugee lad dead on a beach prompted similar comments here initially. ''I don't want to see that on my FB page'' etc. But I think that photo started to change people's minds about the refugee crisis and ultimately did a lot of good. Can't see any of the photos mentioned above having a similar impact tbh but the photographer who took Alan's photo may have appeared incredibly callous at the time too.


Yep. It's a tough call. I can't imagine some of the horror pics some war photographers have taken and never used.


----------



## gosub (Mar 22, 2017)

editor said:


> He's still the TrevTwat though.


Yeah but he's got an open goal for a liable payout.


----------



## wiskey (Mar 22, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> This?
> 
> http://www.met.police.uk/leslp/docs/major-incident-procedure-manual-9th-ed.pdf



Yes, Pickers posted it upthread too


----------



## editor (Mar 22, 2017)

gosub said:


> Yeah but he's got an open goal for a liable payout.


He first has to prove that his reputation is something that was detrimentally damaged as a result. Given his circumstances, that may be a tad difficult.


----------



## TheHoodedClaw (Mar 22, 2017)

gosub said:


> Yeah but he's got an open goal for a liable payout.



The damage to his reputation isn't going to be worth a lot of money though.


----------



## gosub (Mar 22, 2017)

CRI said:


> Seems this shit stain waded in within a couple hours of the first report
> 
> View attachment 102736


So he's setting the bar at no lone wolf attacks in any US city, if that's even possible fuck living under the sort of regime you'd need to make it work


----------



## ShiftyBagLady (Mar 22, 2017)

TheHoodedClaw said:


> When the Glasgow bin lorry incident happened a few years ago, one of the Scottish papers quickly published online some graphic eye-witness testimony (words, no pics) about the utterly horrific last moments of one of the victims. A relative or friend quickly looking up stuff to find out what the fuck had just happened in Glasgow would likely have read that (because it was one of the top news results - that's how I came to read it), and who the victim was became absolutely clear once the names and pictures were released.


That's so sad and unnecessary that it does make me quite angry. That's traumatising for relatives, it seems so cruel to me.
And it's one of the reasons that I find this practise so repugnant


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 22, 2017)

gosub said:


> So he's setting the bar at no lone wolf attacks in any US city, if that's even possible fuck living under the sort of regime you'd need to make it work



I reckon they'd have a much tougher job taking people's cars off them than they would taking their guns.


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 22, 2017)

Hysteria, fear, shrill headlines and minutes silence just increase the value of the attack. We should all (apart I guess from those immediately involved) just shrug it off, fuck them off. Make it not matter. Terrorism is like viral marketing bollocks and it just gets lapped up time and time again.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 22, 2017)

Many MPs praising the bravery of PaDP; nothing from Andrew Mitchell yet, though.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Mar 22, 2017)




----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 22, 2017)

Clickbait equivalent rules apply to mainstream press too. It's a tough commercial world out there. Giving a shit about victims families is no way to get views and consequent advertising revenue.


----------



## gawkrodger (Mar 22, 2017)

It's interesting how Met police acting deputy commissioner Mark Rowley explictly attacked the far-right in his speech. 



> Terrorists have a clear aim and that is to create discord, distrust and to create fear. The police stand with all communities in the UK and will take action against anyone who seeks to undermine society, especially where their crimes are motivated by hate.
> 
> We must recognise now that our Muslim communities will feel anxious at this time given the past behaviour of the extreme right wing and we will continue to work with all community leaders in the coming days.
> 
> It’s essential for us to remain vigilant but to also work together – policing and communities – and unite against those who seek, through violence and extremism, to threaten, intimidate and cause fear.


 - taken from the Granuaid live feed


----------



## teqniq (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Many MPs praising the bravery of PaDP; nothing from Andrew Mitchell yet, though.


Oooo nice. I have however latterly (to my own surprise) got a teensy bit more time for the man seeing as how he seems to be attempting to shift opinion within the establishment and the public by visiting and writing articles on the ongoing tragedy that is Yemen.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 22, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Many MPs praising the bravery of PaDP; nothing from Andrew Mitchell yet, though.


'You _really_ ain't bringing your fucking bike through here today son'.


----------



## agricola (Mar 22, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> It's interesting how Met police acting deputy commissioner Mark Rowley explictly attacked the far-right in his speech.
> 
> - taken from the Granuaid live feed



He is not wrong to.  This murderous attack on people who have nothing to do with any of the issues that the attacker was bothered by must not be used by others to attack other people who also had nothing to do with it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 23, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Urban replies:




"Imma sit on ma horsey, laughin' at the dead policeman.  Teach them to call their Morris Marinas 'Panda Cars'!!!".


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> It get's better...




His forehead brings to mind - to me - Jesse Jackson's shirt after Revd King was shot.


----------



## albionism (Mar 23, 2017)

Noticed "Tommy Robinson" was down there with a camera crew
within an hour or so of the incident. You just know that he and 
his ilk must sit there waiting, hoping something like this happens.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> His forehead brings to mind - to me - Jesse Jackson's shirt after Revd King was shot.


I thought _exactly_ the same thing!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I thought _exactly_ the same thing!



We're obviously both heartless cynics.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> We're obviously both heartless cynics.


... and of a certain age.


----------



## Mation (Mar 23, 2017)

8den said:


> He is ITV's royal correspondent.....


Chris Ship (@chrisshipitv) on Twitter

  

E2a i don't know how to embed tweets.


----------



## Yossarian (Mar 23, 2017)

Surprisingly sensible response from the US, with Sean Spicer saying it would be irresponsible to jump to conclusions etc - guess Trump's idiot son was put in charge of stupidity for the day.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

editor said:


> He's still the TrevTwat though.


The? Merely a TrevTwat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> I reckon they'd have a much tougher job taking people's cars off them than they would taking their guns.


Not what repo men seem to find


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Yossarian said:


> Surprisingly sensible response from the US, with Sean Spicer saying it would be irresponsible to jump to conclusions etc - guess Trump's idiot son was put in charge of stupidity for the day.


Monkeys and typewriters leap to mind


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

albionism said:


> Noticed "Tommy Robinson" was down there with a camera crew
> within an hour or so of the incident. You just know that he and
> his ilk must sit there waiting, hoping something like this happens.


Sipping from cans in bags while they wait


----------



## extra dry (Mar 23, 2017)




----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

Meanwhile last night in Wisconsin, 3 people and a police shot dead in a 'domestic dispute at a bank'.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> View attachment 102745
> 
> 
> Meanwhile last night in Wisconsin, 3 people and a police shot dead in a 'domestic dispute at a bank'.


djt thread >>>>


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

extra dry said:


>


unless you're an MP hollering for new trousers having messed their own


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 23, 2017)

The attack seems to have broken the BBC News site:


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

Just been on the radio here that armed police have stormed a flat in Birmingham.


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

curious. Guardian saying 7 people arrested but that police believe this attacker “acted alone and inspired by international terrorism". 
Also says that police have asked journalists not to release the name of the attacker.


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> curious. Guardian saying 7 people arrested but that police believe this attacker “acted alone and inspired by international terrorism".
> Also says that police have asked journalists not to release the name of the attacker.


I would imagine it's maybe a bit too early to know whether the attacker truly acted alone or what his motives were. I'm guessing the police are still at the stage of "arrest anyone who had anything to do with him" - they can always be subsequently released.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Mar 23, 2017)

There is going to be a candlelit vigil tonight at 6 at Trafalgar Square.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Let's hope yesterday's incident wasn't either a reconnaissance in preparation for a larger attack, or to get lots of people to congregate in one place, again for a further attack.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> curious. Guardian saying 7 people arrested but that police believe this attacker “acted alone and inspired by international terrorism".
> Also says that police have asked journalists not to release the name of the attacker.


Yeh cos everyone knows withholding information about terrorism's not an offence


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> curious. Guardian saying 7 people arrested but that police believe this attacker “acted alone and inspired by international terrorism".
> Also says that police have asked journalists not to release the name of the attacker.


They raided the address given when the car was rented, among others. Whoever's name is on the document and anyone living with them are likely to be arrested I'd have thought. Chances are people will get picked up for other unrelated things too.


----------



## pseudonarcissus (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> They raided the address given when the car was rented, among others. Whoevers name is on the document and anyone living with them are likely to be arrested I'd have thought. Chances are people will get picked up for other unrelated things too.



PACE means a lot more arrests rather than the old "assisting police with their enquires". It's more about interviewing people under caution than to suggest there is evidence of involvement.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

Do they still use the Prevention of Terrorism Act for things like this?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Do they still use the Prevention of Terrorism Act for things like this?


Is there still a pta?


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Is there still a pta?


It was made permanent in 2000, under Blair.

E2A:

Or so I thought. It was replaced in 2000 by the Terrorism Act, which 'superseded and repealed the original PTA. This is the bit I was thinking of, though:

"*Section 41 (arrest without warrant)*
Section 41 of the Act provided the police with the power to arrest and detain a person without charge for up to 48 hours if they were suspected of being a terrorist.[13] This period of detention could be extended to up to seven days if the police can persuade a judge that it is necessary for further questioning.[14]

This was a break from ordinary criminal law where suspects had to be charged within 24 hours of detention or be released. This period was later extended to 14 days by the Criminal Justice Act 2003,[15] and to 28 days by the Terrorism Act 2006."

Terrorism Act 2000 - Wikipedia


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 23, 2017)

Slightly OT but at work we are all first aiders. We are due for renewals this year. One lad went two weeks back and was shown, on top of the usual first aid at work course, how to apply tourniquets and hydrostatic packs for treating blast injuries. They were told they would be provided by ambulances attending any terror incident.
Also that all ambulances now carry various antidotes for some nerve agents. The establishment appears to accept that at some point in the near future there will be something horrific happen.


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

Guineveretoo said:


> There is going to be a candlelit vigil tonight at 6 at Trafalgar Square.




I can't help but think this plays into the hands of those seeking to create a climate of fear (the jihadis, the racists, and the security services).  It'd be better if those who weren't directly affected just got on with things as normal. As sad as this is for the families of those who died, in the context of London's statistics on stabbings and road deaths, the numbers are not statistically significant. (Not saying the deaths aren't significant to those who knew them, of course.)


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

Sprocket. said:


> Slightly OT but at work we are all first aiders. We are due for renewals this year. One lad went two weeks back and was shown, on top of the usual first aid at work course, how to apply tourniquets and hydrostatic packs for treating blast injuries. They were told they would be provided by ambulances attending any terror incident.
> Also that all ambulances now carry various antidotes for some nerve agents. The establishment appears to accept that at some point in the near future there will be something horrific happen.



Tourniquets and trauma dressings yes, antidotes to nerve agents no. Think someone's been getting a tad over excited.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Mar 23, 2017)

Athos said:


> I can't help but think this plays into the hands of those seeking to create a climate of fear (the jihadis, the racists, and the security services).  It'd be better if those who weren't directly affected just got on with things as normal. As sad as this is for the families of those who died, in the context of London's statistics on stabbings and road deaths, the numbers are not statistically significant. (Not saying the deaths aren't significant to those who knew them, of course.)


I don't agree. I think the vigil is about people gathering to acknowledge that there has been an attack on random, but ordinary, people in central London and that it is saying, quietly and calmly, that Londoners will not be scared away from going about their business.


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 23, 2017)

Dom Traynor said:


> View attachment 102738


Fuck off. Tired of this shit. Quite often if it is not Muslims it drops from the headlines and all those complaining about Jihadis on social media go quiet until the next time.


----------



## wiskey (Mar 23, 2017)

Sprocket. said:


> Also that all ambulances now carry various antidotes for some nerve agents. The establishment appears to accept that at some point in the near future there will be something horrific happen.



not bog standard ones


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

I do like the fact the name of the attacker does seem to be being kept quiet at the moment. I'd quite like it if he vanished into obscurity without much being known of him.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> I do like the fact the name of the attacker does seem to be being kept quiet at the moment. I'd quite like it if he vanished into obscurity without much being known of him.


tbh most of the mps who cowered and quaked yesterday will vanish into obscurity without much being known of them


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Guineveretoo said:


> I don't agree. I think the vigil is about people gathering to acknowledge that there has been an attack on random, but ordinary, people in central London and that it is saying, quietly and calmly, that Londoners will not be scared away from going about their business.


if you want to say 'londoners will not be scared away from going about their business' perhaps the best way to say it is simply for londoners to go about their business.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> if you want to say 'londoners will not be scared away from going about their business' perhaps the best way to say it is simply for londoners to go about their business.


We will be doing that as well. But some of us will be pausing to acknowledge that there has been an attack on random people walking across Westminster Bridge. As in the first part of my post.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Guineveretoo said:


> We will be doing that as well. But some of us will be pausing to acknowledge that there has been an attack on random people walking across Westminster Bridge. As in the first part of my post.


and don't forget the policeman.


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

Guineveretoo said:


> I don't agree. I think the vigil is about people gathering to acknowledge that there has been an attack on random, but ordinary, people in central London and that it is saying, quietly and calmly, that Londoners will not be scared away from going about their business.



By not just going about their business?

Over 100 people a year in London are murdered, and over 60 pedestrians killed.  So, we're looking a broadly similar figures to what happened yesterday, every week. We don't hold weekly vigils though.  Why give this nutter more significance than he deserves?


----------



## Mumbles274 (Mar 23, 2017)

Because terror attacks target everyone, while we may not all be direct victims, we are all tragetted by 'terrorism'?


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

In a way, if there was a big public candleit vigil for the latest teenager shot dead in London (on Monday) or cyclist run over that might be more pointful, but won't happen.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

I can see why people do these things. It makes them feel like they're helping and they want to show solidarity. It's no bad thing, but it's not for me.


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

Mumbles274 said:


> Because terror attacks target everyone, while we may not all be direct victims, we are all tragetted by 'terrorism'?



The only sense in which they target everyone is that they seek to engender a general climate of fear.  An agenda which is furthered by well-meaning people overreacting to such incidents.


----------



## Sirena (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I can see why people do these things. It makes them feel like they're helping and they want to show solidarity. It's no bad thing, but it's not for me.


Nor me.  I'm finding the thing getting really mawkish now.


----------



## Guineveretoo (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> and don't forget the policeman.


I haven't forgotten the police officer who was killed, but I don't think there would be a vigil in Trafalgar Square if it had just been a police officer who was killed. Besides which, I can see from the thread that there is little sympathy with some urbanites for the death of a police officer.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Sirena said:


> Nor me.  I'm finding the thing getting really mawkish now.


we broadcast this morning against a backdrop of sirens and helicopters


----------



## Guineveretoo (Mar 23, 2017)

Athos said:


> By not just going about their business?
> 
> Over 100 people a year in London are murdered, and over 60 pedestrians killed.  So, we're looking a broadly similar figures to what happened yesterday, every week. We don't hold weekly vigils though.  Why give this nutter more significance than he deserves?


See the first part of my post. 

Sometimes, there are vigils, although not weekly. 

This one has been called because what happened yesterday was out of the norm, and it has been decided to acknowledge that through a candlelit vigil. There is no requirement on anyone to join in, but I thought some readers of this thread may be interested, so I shared it. 

I am not organising it.


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

Sirena said:


> Nor me.  I'm finding the thing getting really mawkish now.



Mawkishness isn't my issue. Some people love a bit of mass grieving (see Diana's death). What bothers me is that, with regard to such incidents, it plays right into the hands of the perpetrators.


----------



## Obediah Marsh (Mar 23, 2017)

As with the Boston marathon bombing a few years ago, this could have been much, much worse. Tragic and outrageous as this attack is, a feeling of relief, even levity, is understandable.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> In a way, if there was a big public candleit vigil for the latest teenager shot dead in London (on Monday) or cyclist run over that might be more pointful, but won't happen.


There are often vigils for these things


----------



## likesfish (Mar 23, 2017)

atrophine is a standard drug carried by paramedics and can also be used as an antidote to nerve gas so he wasn't wrong per say.
 tourniquets are back in fashion thank a long war for that advances in trauma care.
you can even get combat  trousers with built in torniquets wich is a touch morbid and couldn't possibly end badly


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> There are often vigils for these things


as any self-respecting terrorist could predict


----------



## Sirena (Mar 23, 2017)

Athos said:


> Mawkishness isn't my issue. Some people love a bit of mass grieving (see Diana's death). What bothers me is that, with regard to such incidents, it plays right into the hands of the perpetrators.


I think the 'perpetrator' probably was someone driven to the point of madness and fury by what the interfering West has been doing to civilizations and cultures that he feels a deep affinity with.

I don't think he will have been part of a bigger plan.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Sirena said:


> I think the 'perpetrator' probably was someone driven to the point of madness and fury by what the interfering West has been doing to civilizations and cultures that he feels a deep affinity with.
> 
> I don't think he will have been part of a bigger plan.


let's hope not anyway.


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> There are often vigils for these things


Usually (in the case of teenagers murdered) the people attending vigils at the spot are people who knew the victim personally though, aren't they, not folk who just read about them in the papers, because that would feel intrusive I think, don't know. When the boy was killed in my street I did notice that a couple of the flower-bunches that people brought and left at the spot were from people who had just read / heard about it, and hadn't known him, and that was good to see.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> Usually (in the case of teenagers murdered) the people attending vigils at the spot are people who knew the victim personally though, aren't they, not folk who just read about them in the papers, because that would feel intrusive I think, don't know. When the boy was killed in my street I did notice that a couple of the flower-bunches that people brought and left at the spot were from people who had just read / heard about it, and hadn't known him, and that was good to see.


this vigil famously not 'at the spot'.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> as any self-respecting terrorist could predict


For cyclist deaths and shootings


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> Usually (in the case of teenagers murdered) the people attending vigils at the spot are people who knew the victim personally though, aren't they, not folk who just read about them in the papers, because that would feel intrusive I think, don't know.


Not the ones I've read about.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> For cyclist deaths and shootings


yeh. your post on rereading equivocal. there are famously often vigils after terrorist attacks too.


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

Sirena said:


> I think the 'perpetrator' probably was someone driven to the point of madness and fury by what the interfering West has been doing to civilizations and cultures that he feels a deep affinity with.
> 
> I don't think he will have been part of a bigger plan.


Why is perpetrator in quote marks?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh most of the mps who cowered and quaked yesterday will vanish into obscurity without much being known of them




I WAS A HERO! I WAS THERE - Half of Westminster and a shit load of political reporters.

I particularly like this one from the Guardian. 



> The mind goes numb at times like these. A disconnect between brain and feeling. So it took me the best part of an hour to make sense of what I had seen. But the simple truth is this. Today I saw a man die. A police officer, someone I had almost certainly said “hello” to at some point over the years. Possibly even this morning. Who knows?
> 
> It was about 2.50pm when a reporter from Bloomberg came running into the Guardian office in the House of Commons to say there had been an incident outside. I ran into the offices of the Daily Telegraph that overlook New Palace Yard to see two bodies lying near the entrance to Westminster Hall, just yards from where Airey Neave had been murdered nearly 40 years previously.
> 
> I asked what had happened. “Some bloke just attacked a policeman with a knife,” I was told. “And then another policeman shot him three times in the chest.”


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 23, 2017)

Sirena said:


> I think the 'perpetrator' probably was someone driven to the point of madness and fury by what the interfering West has been doing to civilizations and cultures that he feels a deep affinity with.
> 
> I don't think he will have been part of a bigger plan.


Lol


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 23, 2017)

Sirena said:


> I think the 'perpetrator' probably was someone driven to the point of madness and fury by what the interfering West has been doing to civilizations and cultures that he feels a deep affinity with.
> 
> I don't think he will have been part of a bigger plan.



Thanks for posting this. I feel hugely reassured by your insightful analysis into the mind and motives of the killer which sound convincing to me.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> Why is perpetrator in quote marks?



'virtue signalling'


----------



## hot air baboon (Mar 23, 2017)

Alex Carlile popping up on R4 using this incident as a blunt instrument to beat the Daily Mail around the head for their campaign opposing the RIPA Act


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> In a way, if there was a big public candleit vigil for the latest teenager shot dead in London (on Monday) or cyclist run over that might be more pointful, but won't happen.



There are often mass vigils/protests when cyclists get killed in London.


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> There are often mass vigils/protests when cyclists get killed in London.


True, I should've left the cyclists out of it really. 
But when that one a while back made the news, the vigil / demo where all those cyclists lay in the street, that probably raised drivers' awareness at least for a while, having the effect of maybe reducing the chances of the same thing happening again the next day, which a vigil for victims of a thing like yesterday's attack is obviously not going to do.


----------



## Sprocket. (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Tourniquets and trauma dressings yes, antidotes to nerve agents no. Think someone's been getting a tad over excited.





wiskey said:


> not bog standard ones



I am only quoting what my colleague was told by the training provider, who obviously needs pulling up then.
I shall make appropriate waves. (Again)


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 23, 2017)

People respond to things in their own ways. Personally I can't see the percentage in gathering in a big crowd to mourn people I never knew but if this is something other people want to do then fair enough.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

Lord Carlile has blamed cycle lanes for the attack:
Peer blames Westminster Bridge cycle lane for terrorist attack


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh most of the mps who cowered and quaked yesterday will vanish into obscurity without much being known of them


I suspect even you would cover and quake when faced with the prospect of being the target of such a deadly attack.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

From May's statement:



> I can confirm police have searched six addresses and made eight arrests in Birmingham and London. It is still believed this attacker acted alone and police have no reason to believe there are imminent further attacks on the public. His identity is known to the police and MI5.
> 
> When operational considerations allow he will be publicly identified.
> 
> What I can confirm is the man was British born and that some years ago he was once investigated by MI5 in relation to concerns about violent extremism. He was a peripheral figure. The case is historic. He is not part of the current intelligence picture.



London attack: Theresa May says Westminster assailant was British-born and known to MI5 – live


----------



## chandlerp (Mar 23, 2017)

I can sort of see where the cycle lane thing comes from in that there was a much wider space for the car to get through as opposed to if there had been traffic close to a small pavement.  Even so, this nutter would have found a way to wreak havoc elsewhere so it's also a bit crass to think he would have just sat seething in traffic if he couldn't get through.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

Whilst I am truly sorry for the deaths that happened yesterday in London, just for a little perspective: Today in Mosul Rudaw are reporting that at least 137 civilians have been killed as a result of airstrikes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

editor said:


> I suspect even you would cover and quake when faced with the prospect of being the target of such a deadly attack.


i think i could be forgiven a shudder or two being as i don't have scores of armed cops hanging about to protect me at my place of work.


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i think i could be forgiven a shudder or two being as i don't have scores of armed cops hanging about to protect me at my place of work.


Right. So you'd be braver and stronger than all those MPs 'quaking' away. In your imagination.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Lord Carlile has blamed cycle lanes for the attack:
> Peer blames Westminster Bridge cycle lane for terrorist attack



He has a point though, it's very easy for a vehicle to charge through a cycle lane for it's entire length at speed, whether driven by a terrorist or a driver having a massive road rage episode or just a medical incident. Better physical segregation using high curbs, bollards, lamposts etc can't be a bad thing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

editor said:


> Right. So you'd be braver and stronger than all those MPs 'quaking' away. In your imagination.


when i've been put to the test irl, e.g. at welling, waterloo, hyde park, i've not quaked or cowered or run away.

so if i had a load of armed plod and several thick walls between me and danger i think i could manfully bear up.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> He has a point though, it's very easy for a vehicle to charge through a cycle lane for it's entire length at speed, whether driven by a terrorist or a driver having a massive road rage episode or just a medical incident. Better physical segregation using high curbs, bollards, lamposts etc can't be a bad thing.


if there hadn't been one, he might have driven entirely on the pavement, maiming and killing even more people


----------



## pengaleng (Mar 23, 2017)

broken brexit init.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Lord Carlile has blamed cycle lanes for the attack:
> Peer blames Westminster Bridge cycle lane for terrorist attack


Good man. 

But


----------



## chandlerp (Mar 23, 2017)

The pavement there is nowhere near wide enough though, which is the point being made.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 23, 2017)

Talking of cyclists' deaths, it seems some clown has been on the radio talking about how the segregated cycle land on the bridge made it easier for the attacker.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

chandlerp said:


> The pavement there is nowhere near wide enough though, which is the point being made.


it's wide enough


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Talking of cyclists' deaths, it seems some clown has been on the radio talking about how the segregated cycle land on the bridge made it easier for the attacker.


yeh as we've just been discussing


----------



## JimW (Mar 23, 2017)

I think we can all agree this attack justifies whatever agenda it is I'm peddling.


----------



## treelover (Mar 23, 2017)

Sirena said:


> I think the 'perpetrator' probably was someone driven to the point of madness and fury by what the interfering West has been doing to civilizations and cultures that he feels a deep affinity with.
> 
> I don't think he will have been part of a bigger plan.



Veering towards apologia


----------



## treelover (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Whilst I am truly sorry for the deaths that happened yesterday in London, just for a little perspective: Today in Mosul Rudaw are reporting that at least 137 civilians have been killed as a result of airstrikes.



Thats awful, but we are not at war like in Iraq


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

And? You think successive governments in the UK do not bear a fair degree of responsibility for what is happening out there? Also when they say 'airstrikes' it is useful to remember that almost certainly the US and maybe the RAF were involved.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

> Among the 29 treated for injuries at hospital were 12 Britons, three French children, two Romanians, four South Koreans, one German, one Pole, one Chinese, one Italian, one Irish, one American and two Greeks.



Am I imagining it, or has the international human value exchange been radically altered recently to the detriment of South Koreans and Greeks? 

Westminster attacker was UK-born and known to MI5, Theresa May tells MPs


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Am I imagining it, or has the international human value exchange been radically altered recently to the detriment of South Koreans and Greeks?
> 
> Westminster attacker was UK-born and known to MI5, Theresa May tells MPs


with the frequency with which attackers are known to the 'security' services, you'd think people would begin to wonder how effective these 'security' services are.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> with the frequency with which attackers are known to the 'security' services, you'd think people would begin to wonder how effective these 'security' services are.



They've investigated probably half the Muslims in the UK I suspect...


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

Could it be a new policy to not print and publicise his name so as to stop the celebrity bit? Hope so.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> with the frequency with which attackers are known to the 'security' services, you'd think people would begin to wonder how effective these 'security' services are.


Almost seems like a tactic; alert spooks to your 'peripheral' nature, wait/sleep to see heat subside, then strike 'under the radar'?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> They've investigated probably half the Muslims in the UK I suspect...


after 15.5 years you'd have thought they'd done them all


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

Athos said:


> I can't help but think this plays into the hands of those seeking to create a climate of fear (the jihadis, the racists, and the security services).  It'd be better if those who weren't directly affected just got on with things as normal. As sad as this is for the families of those who died, in the context of London's statistics on stabbings and road deaths, the numbers are not statistically significant. (Not saying the deaths aren't significant to those who knew them, of course.)


Tend to agree, something along the lines of the Power of Nightmares thesis, the Adam Curtis film from just after 9/11 - don't agree with his whole thesis, fwiw, but he has a point with how events like this are used by the powerful.  In staging this attack just outside Parliament it really is as if the terrorists are colluding with those in power to allow them to present themselves as our protector (_in practice_ of course, I haven't gone all conspiraloon).  That seemed to happening even last night as the journos and parliamentary correspondents rattled on about this 'symbolic attack' on the mother of parliaments.  Partly that was just about who they were, parliamentary correspondents who were likely to rattle on about stuff like that and happened to be in situ when an attack happened. However, I have a feeling its going to be a major theme in the way '22/3' passes into history.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> after 15.5 years you'd have thought they'd done them all




I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt at not investigating kids and others... plus you know, government cut backs means theres a hell of a backlog.


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Almost seems like a tactic; alert spooks to your 'peripheral' nature, wait/sleep to see heat subside, then strike 'under the radar'?



In an age of automated processing of mass comms data, that'd be a terrible tactic.

More likely, there's so many of them with the potential to do something like this, that there's no way to keep on top of everyone - just direct resources at the highest risk, in the knowledge that some low risks will manifest occasionally.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 23, 2017)

BBC reporting the attacker was 'British-born'. So that would be 'British', then.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

Athos said:


> In an age mass comms data, that'd be a terrible tactic.
> 
> More likely, there's so many of them with the potential to do something like this, that there's no way to keep on top of everyone - just direct resources at the highest risk, in the knowledge that some low risks will manifest occasionally.


Depressingly, you're probably correct.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> BBC reporting the attacker was 'British-born'. So that would be 'British', then.


No use of the _heritage _word, then?


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Tend to agree, something along the lines of the Power of Nightmares thesis, the Adam Curtis film from just after 9/11 - don't agree with his whole thesis, fwiw, but he has a point with how events like this are used by the powerful.  In staging this attack just outside Parliament it really is as if the terrorists are colluding with those in power to allow them to present themselves as our protector (_in practice_ of course, I haven't gone all conspiraloon).  That seemed to happening even last night as the journos and parliamentary correspondents rattled on about this 'symbolic attack' on the mother of parliaments.  Partly that was just about who they were, parliamentary correspondents who were likely to rattle on about stuff like that and happened to be in situ when an attack happened. However, I have a feeling its going to be a major theme in the way '22/3' passes into history.



That mother of all parliaments had killed how many with its 'austerity' in recent months. It's a mutually beneficial distraction.


----------



## 8den (Mar 23, 2017)

Athos said:


> That mother of all parliaments had killed how many with its 'austerity' in recent months. It's a mutually beneficial distraction.



Christ when did a Monarchy start calling itself the mother of democracy anyway?


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> From May's statement:
> 
> 
> 
> London attack: Theresa May says Westminster assailant was British-born and known to MI5 – live


That sounds to be entirely about the security services and government building their defence about someone, cliché alert, was _on their radar_.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

8den said:


> Christ when did a Monarchy start calling itself the mother of democracy anyway?


Surely that's the Icelandic Althing anyway


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 23, 2017)

Has any MP yet challenged our continued arming of Islamic extremists? In the context of an attack by an Islamic extremist one might think it quite pressing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> BBC reporting the attacker was 'British-born'. So that would be 'British', then.


no, british people do not do this sort of thing .'. "british-born" but something else-adult


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Surely that's the Icelandic Althing anyway


i would have thought it was democratick athens in the auld auld times.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> BBC reporting the attacker was 'British-born'. So that would be 'British', then.




Did he have British Values? Am reliably informed you can only be a British Citizen once you obtain those.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> Did he have British Values? Am reliably informed you can only be a British Citizen once you obtain those.


You only need those if you wish to become a citizen. Only those born British are allowed to disavow them, whatever the fuck they are.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> Did he have British Values?


tesco value


----------



## killer b (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> You only need those if you wish to become a citizen. Only those born British are allowed to disavow them, whatever the fuck they are.


drinking tea and wanking in the bogs at work, as far as I can tell.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> tesco value
> 
> View attachment 102759


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

Jesus f christ. I just did the idiotic thing of reading Katie Hopkin's bit on this. Will she edit now it turns out he was British? of course not. because "These people may have left their lands. But they have brought every tension, every conflict, every bit of fight here with them.."


----------



## Sirena (Mar 23, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Has any MP yet challenged our continued arming of Islamic extremists? In the context of an attack by an Islamic extremist one might think it quite pressing.


Yes, it would seem a good way to stop further attacks.  In the spirit of tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime.....


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Someone in the MPS communications department seems to be a really big fan of either The Bangles or The Nazis



> Cressida Dick, the incoming Met commissioner, Craig Mackey, the acting commissioner, and other officers held a minute’s silence in front of the “eternal flame” alight outside New Scotland Yard on Victoria Embankment, within sight of Westminster Bridge. The new headquarters was set to be formally opened by the Queen on Thursday but the ceremony was cancelled.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> Jesus f christ. I just did the idiotic thing of reading Katie Hopkin's bit on this. Will she edit now it turns out he was British? of course not. because "These people may have left their lands. But they have brought every tension, every conflict, every bit of fight here with them.."


 
Hopkins is ex-Sandhurst- she is part of the problem


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> Jesus f christ. I just did the idiotic thing of reading Katie Hopkin's bit on this. Will she edit now it turns out he was British? of course not. because "These people may have left their lands. But they have brought every tension, every conflict, every bit of fight here with them.."




We're such a peaceable island nation... 


Bones point to Iron Age cannibalism


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

taffboy gwyrdd said:


> Has any MP yet challenged our continued arming of Islamic extremists? In the context of an attack by an Islamic extremist one might think it quite pressing.



Arming them with cars and kitchen knives? Never knew that was a government sanctioned program.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Arming them with cars and kitchen knives? Never knew that was a government sanctioned program.



They come as standard with the proverbial Four Bedroomed Council House which is, apparently, distributed with gay abandon to anyone entering the country.


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

8den said:


> Christ when did a Monarchy start calling itself the mother of democracy anyway?



Not mother of democracy; mother of parliaments.

The expression was coined by John Bright in a speech on 18 January 1865.


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> Jesus f christ. I just did the idiotic thing of reading Katie Hopkin's bit on this. Will she edit now it turns out he was British? of course not. because "These people may have left their lands. But they have brought every tension, every conflict, every bit of fight here with them.."



OK, I caved in and read it.


Fuckity byebye.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> They come as standard with the proverbial Four Bedroomed Council House which is, apparently, distributed with gay abandon to anyone entering the country.


 
+£25K in cash to be picked up at Dover docks , a Mini cab licence & a Ford C max to ferry the family around. this is a FACT


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> Could it be a new policy to not print and publicise his name so as to stop the celebrity bit? Hope so.



No. That'll be to not alert any 'associates' that they will shortly have their front doors stoved in.


----------



## 2hats (Mar 23, 2017)

Islamic state group claims responsibility (Source: Reuters via BBC News).


----------



## frogwoman (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> OK, I caved in and read it.
> 
> 
> Fuckity byebye.




Why hasn't she moved yet?


----------



## 8den (Mar 23, 2017)

Athos said:


> Not mother of democracy; mother of parliaments.
> 
> The expression was coined by John Bright in a speech on 18 January 1865.



It's weird how phrases pop into currency about a dozen politicians Have referred to the act of emergency services running towards danger and everyone runs away as a motif in speeches.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

They claim responsibility for anything TBF, I think they also claimed responsibility for the burgling of the newsagents at the end of my street last year


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Why hasn't she moved yet?


My thinking entirely.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Why hasn't she moved yet?


None of her local Polish man-with-vans are answering her calls


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

12/40 of the victims are british, the rest not british according to May - does this mean after brexit, terror attacks will be 66.7% less bloody ?


----------



## treelover (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Tend to agree, something along the lines of the Power of Nightmares thesis, the Adam Curtis film from just after 9/11 - don't agree with his whole thesis, fwiw, but he has a point with how events like this are used by the powerful.  In staging this attack just outside Parliament it really is as if the terrorists are colluding with those in power to allow them to present themselves as our protector (_in practice_ of course, I haven't gone all conspiraloon).  That seemed to happening even last night as the journos and parliamentary correspondents rattled on about this 'symbolic attack' on the mother of parliaments.  Partly that was just about who they were, parliamentary correspondents who were likely to rattle on about stuff like that and happened to be in situ when an attack happened. However, I have a feeling its going to be a major theme in the way '22/3' passes into history.



I have been a bit surprised ed by the political journalists describing the novel nature of the attack on parliament, didn't the IRA fire mortar shells into the garden of No 10 while Major was there?, no one was killed, iirc, but the intent was there, it may be the brutal nature of this attack, but mortars do horrific damage to their victims as well.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Why hasn't she moved yet?




Same reason as:

 



i.e. she's a chronic liar.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> 12/40 of the victims are british, the rest not british according to May - does this mean after brexit, terror attacks will be 66.7% less bloody ?


More importantly, who will be paying for the post-Brexit medical treatment of the non-UK nationals?


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Why hasn't she moved yet?


I thought it fairly evident that she makes a living as a liar, so when it comes to her-not-so-personal 'plans' it is unsurprising to find that there is no truth in them too.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Same reason as:
> 
> View attachment 102760
> 
> ...


Certainly I wouldn't envisage many people calling her acute liar.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

BTW, I am not making light of the issue - just the odd statement about nationality she made


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I thought it fairly evident that she makes a living as a liar, so when it come to her-not-so-personal 'plans' it is unsurprising to find that there is no truth in them too.


 

She would not get health insurance in the US for a fucking start, given her history


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

Her latest piece of bile something special, it says 'these people aren't extremists they're just more devout'. It says 'They are simply more devout. More true to their beliefs. Beliefs which will be supported endlessly across our state broadcaster for the next few months until we buy into the narrative that one religion is not to blame'. 
That may be actionable hate speech i don't know.


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> She would not get health insurance in the US for a fucking start, given her history


Suddenly getting rid of Obamacare makes sense (sort of)


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 23, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> BTW, I am not making light of the issue - just the odd statement about nationality she made


Could be a few different motivations for that. Calling the attacker 'british-born' rather than 'british' is just plain old racism. Stressing the number of non-British (or is that non-British-born?) victims may well be an attempt to stress that this is 'an attack on the world'.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> Suddenly getting rid of Obamacare makes sense (sort of)


A long odds gamble if ever there was one, but it might just pay off (for us in the UK)


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Could be a few different motivations for that. Calling the attacker 'british-born' rather than 'british' is just plain old racism. Stressing the number of non-British (or is that non-British-born?) victims may well be an attempt to stress that this is 'an attack on the world'.



No cos the BBC and the like refer to anyone with a British passport as British. 'British-born' is like British with a cherry on top.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 23, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> They've investigated probably half the Muslims in the UK I suspect...


Which would suggest that they had intelligence that 'half the Muslims in the UK ' needed to be investigated which clearly isn't the case .


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

time for the redtops to dust off their Tipton Taliban one liner manuals if the midlands rumours are correct


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> No cos the BBC and the like refer to anyone with a British passport as British. 'British-born' is like British with a cherry on top.



I'm not sure if the BBC would refer to me as British born, suspect just British...


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> No cos the BBC and the like refer to anyone with a British passport as British. 'British-born' is like British with a cherry on top.


Er, quite the opposite, I would have thought. 'British-born' is 'has a British passport and has lived here all his life, but is brown and has a funny name'.


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I'm not sure if the BBC would refer to me as British born, suspect just British...



Depends what you'd been up to.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

indded a curious bit of semantics going on from may. Maybe not that curious actually


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

Sirena said:


> 'perpetrator'



Eh Sirena?


----------



## likesfish (Mar 23, 2017)

frogwoman said:


> Why hasn't she moved yet?



she has its an alternative fact that she still lives in the UK


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> Depends what you'd been up to.



Shoplifting in Waitrose mostly


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

likesfish said:


> she has its an alternative fact that she still lives in the UK



No, you've let Trump confuse you.  That she still lives in the UK is a fact.

I would prefer the alternative.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

you knew hopkins and the entire news industry was going to be in the vinegars for days


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Shoplifting in Waitrose mostly



Yep, they'd probably go with British for that.


Its an effort to prevent the anti immigrant lot getting currency from this.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> you knew hopkins and the entire news industry was going to be in the vinegars for days


Yup but fortunately a lot of people are not buying the shit that they peddle.

Fox News And Katie Hopkins Spark Incredible Response From Londoners After Westminster Terror Attack Comments | The Huffington Post


----------



## likesfish (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> No, you've let Trump confuse you.  That she still lives in the UK is a fact.
> 
> I would prefer the alternative.



well tradtionally the US waits years before swooping into save the day
 so their is still time we just have to have faith


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 23, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Which would suggest that they had intelligence that 'half the Muslims in the UK ' needed to be investigated which clearly isn't the case .




Well yes. I see the intelligence operatives flagging process as this

"Is he Muslim?" > Yes > "Investigate the bastard" 


There is no step 3.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> Its an effort to prevent the anti immigrant lot getting currency from this.


What is? 

In terms of referring to the British man who did this as 'British-born', it is the exact opposite of that - it is saying that the man was 'of foreign heritage' and was not really British. It is playing to the anti-immigrant lot.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)




----------



## The39thStep (Mar 23, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> time for the redtops to dust off their Tipton Taliban one liner manuals if the midlands rumours are correct


I think they already have plenty to occupy them 
Alleged Birmingham terrorists called themselves the 'three musketeers'


----------



## kebabking (Mar 23, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> Hopkins is ex-Sandhurst- she is part of the problem



Err.. kicked out for dishonesty actually.

She peddles the myth that she got MD'd, but actually she failed all her physical tests, was at the bottom of the bottom third for everything else, and then demanded a pass card because she'd got epilepsy - which she'd not declared during her application.

Can't recall if she got SNLR or she just left before the axe fell later that day...


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 102762



Yeah that is one that made me smile from the Huff post link above.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

kebabking said:


> Err.. kicked out for dishonesty actually.


Oh the irony. Must've been the clincher on her CV when she went for a job at the Fail


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

I think 'british born' is shorthand for your parents are foreigners.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> I think 'british born' is shorthand for your parents are foreigners.


_The wrong kind of foreigners_


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)




----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

dont rush back you talentless cunt


----------



## nuffsaid (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> with the frequency with which attackers are known to the 'security' services, you'd think people would begin to wonder how effective these 'security' services are.





Pickman's model said:


> after 15.5 years you'd have thought they'd done them all



Maybe the security services could adopt an Uber type approach, hire a load of willing snoopers on minimum wage and have an app that shows you the nearest 'person of interest' to you and you follow them for as long as you want and claim the hours back and report on what they do.

They could call it 'Uber Alles'.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

treelover said:


> I have been a bit surprised ed by the political journalists describing the novel nature of the attack on parliament, didn't the IRA fire mortar shells into the garden of No 10 while Major was there?, no one was killed, iirc, but the intent was there, it may be the brutal nature of this attack, but mortars do horrific damage to their victims as well.


Yep. However its a reasonable/obvious guess that Parliament was chosen not because of the number of people who might be killed, but as a symbol of western power.  Slightly tasteless speculation, but if you wanted to kill large numbers of people with a car, there are other places where you'd have more victims (football crowds leaving a match for example). 

What confuses me slightly about the line of events yesterday was why he ploughed into people in the car as a first step.  Obviously it caused the mayhem and murder the bloke intended, but simultaneously reduced his chances of getting inside parliament i.e. however fast he got back from the bridge, the cops would have been alerted that something was going on.  It seems he then ran at the cop with a knife - not a gun.  He would have known there were armed coups nearby, maybe it was intended to be 'martyrdom by cop' thing rather than a realistic attempt to get at the MPs inside.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

easy solution. following the stasi example of 1in 6 being an informer , assign the vetted white christian patriots of this noble island a couple of local muslims to snoop on and we will have full coverage. take that IS


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

Classsic Grauniad: Full report: Attacker was ‘peripheral figure’ who had falled off intelligence radar


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Classsic Grauniad: Full report: Attacker was ‘peripheral figure’ who had falled off intelligence radar


'Falled off'?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> dont rush back you talentless cunt


managed to shit up an episode of doctor who- fuck him


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

treelover said:


> I have been a bit surprised ed by the political journalists describing the novel nature of the attack on parliament, didn't the IRA fire mortar shells into the garden of No 10 while Major was there?, no one was killed, iirc, but the intent was there, it may be the brutal nature of this attack, but mortars do horrific damage to their victims as well.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

honest intentions etc


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> honest intentions etc


religious fundamentalist nutters


----------



## editor (Mar 23, 2017)

Fuck. I just saw the footage of the woman being catapulted into the Thames after being hit by that pathetic cunt in the car.


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Yep. However its a reasonable/obvious guess that Parliament was chosen not because of the number of people who might be killed, but as a symbol of western power.  Slightly tasteless speculation, but if you wanted to kill large numbers of people with a car, there are other places where you'd have more victims (football crowds leaving a match for example).
> 
> What confuses me slightly about the line of events yesterday was why he ploughed into people in the car as a first step.  Obviously it caused the mayhem and murder the bloke intended, but simultaneously reduced his chances of getting inside parliament i.e. however fast he got back from the bridge, the cops would have been alerted that something was going on.  It seems he then ran at the cop with a knife - not a gun.  He would have known there were armed coups nearby, maybe it was intended to be 'martyrdom by cop' thing rather than a realistic attempt to get at the MPs inside.



There was never any realistic prospect of getting into the chamber. And, if he'd really wanted to kill an MP he only needed to hang around outside. Or turned up at any constituency surgery. This was just the place that would get maximum media coverage and political comment. To spread maximum fear.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 23, 2017)

editor said:


> Fuck. I just saw the footage of the woman being catapulted into the Thames after being hit by that pathetic cunt in the car.


its horrific .


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

Athos said:


> There was never any realistic prospect of getting into the chamber. And, if he'd really wanted to kill an MP he only needed to hang around outside. Or turned up at any constituency surgery. This was just the place that would get maximum media coverage and political comment. To spread maximum fear.


Yep, just horrific that 40 or so people (and yes, including the cop) had to be part of his murderous theatre.  And every time the politicians and journos recycle their mother of parliaments shite they collude with him and take the focus away from the actual victims.  In terms of some of the exchanges earlier in this thread about the proper tone to take, outraged cynicism is just about the only way to discuss the whole thing.  Politicians reap what they sow, murderous shitbag is happy to play the role - and we end up with TV pundits wanking on about the _threats to our democracy_/


----------



## rubbershoes (Mar 23, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> She would not get health insurance in the US for a fucking start, given her history



Would insurance even cover sausage bum injuries?


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

its sad that we even have top bring shitkins into this discussion , this is what she thrives on - utterly parasitic


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 23, 2017)

ShiftyBagLady said:


> That's so sad and unnecessary that it does make me quite angry. That's traumatising for relatives, it seems so cruel to me.
> And it's one of the reasons that I find this practise so repugnant



The whole "tragedy as entertainment" thing annoys me as well.  

Saw and elderly lady that had collapsed at a bus stop a couple summers ago.  Several people stood around taking cell phone pictures and posting it to social media instead tending to her.  Luckily, the ambulance crew rolled up at about this point and shooed them all away.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

rubbershoes said:


> Would insurance even cover sausage bum injuries?


You're the lawyer!


----------



## rubbershoes (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> You're the lawyer!




I have dealt with a bum injury for someone who "fell" onto a metal pipe. 

Nasty


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 23, 2017)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> The whole "tragedy as entertainment" thing annoys me as well.
> 
> Saw and elderly lady that had collapsed at a bus stop a couple summers ago.  Several people stood around taking cell phone pictures and posting it to social media instead tending to her.  Luckily, the ambulance crew rolled up at about this point and shooed them all away.



This - but given the ideological, political or religious dimension to such acts the very theatricality of any event, the enactment of disturbance, is of crucial importance.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 23, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> This - but given the ideological, political or religious dimension to such acts the very theatricality of any event, the enactment of disturbance, is of crucial importance.


Pseuds Corner


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 23, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Pseuds Corner



Fuck off numpty.


----------



## kebabking (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> ..What confuses me slightly about the line of events yesterday was why he ploughed into people in the car as a first step.  Obviously it caused the mayhem and murder the bloke intended, but simultaneously reduced his chances of getting inside parliament i.e. however fast he got back from the bridge, the cops would have been alerted that something was going on....



I'd put good money on it not being part of the plan, but a target of opportunity - you'll recall that 3 of the injured on the bridge were police officers walking back from a commendation ceremony: they'd have been in full uniform, medals jangling and very, very obvious. I'd not be remotely surprised if he clocked them and decided to have a pop on the spur of the moment - he may even have thought they were quite senior officers from the way they were dressed and where they were.

The whole thing was a bit 'happy shopper' as terrorism goes. Not that that helps the kids whose mums or dads didn't go home last night...


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

rubbershoes said:


> I have dealt with a bum injury for someone who "fell" onto a metal pipe.
> 
> Nasty


I now want to know the full details of this unfortunate incident and the insurance payout but probably fortunate that you're not at liberty to say.


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

kebabking said:


> I'd put good money on it not being part of the plan, but a target of opportunity - you'll recall that 3 of the injured on the bridge were police officers walking back from a commendation ceremony: they'd have been in full uniform, medals jangling and very, very obvious. I'd not be remotely surprised if he clocked them and decided to have a pop on the spur of the moment - he may even have thought they were quite senior officers from the way they were dressed and where they were.
> 
> The whole thing was a bit 'happy shopper' as terrorism goes. Not that that helps the kids whose mums or dads didn't go home last night...



Ah explains why the Commissioner is a witness.


----------



## emanymton (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Tend to agree, something along the lines of the Power of Nightmares thesis, the Adam Curtis film from just after 9/11 - don't agree with his whole thesis, fwiw, but he has a point with how events like this are used by the powerful.  In staging this attack just outside Parliament it really is as if the terrorists are colluding with those in power to allow them to present themselves as our protector (_in practice_ of course, I haven't gone all conspiraloon).  That seemed to happening even last night as the journos and parliamentary correspondents rattled on about this 'symbolic attack' on the mother of parliaments.  Partly that was just about who they were, parliamentary correspondents who were likely to rattle on about stuff like that and happened to be in situ when an attack happened. However, I have a feeling its going to be a major theme in the way '22/3' passes into history.


There doesnt need to be collusion because their politics have a lot more in common than either group would like to admit.


----------



## emanymton (Mar 23, 2017)

How odd is it that I have not heard one person at work mention this so far today?


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

emanymton said:


> How odd is it that I have not heard one person at work mention this so far today?


that's not unusual, is it?


----------



## emanymton (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> that's not unusual, is it?


Don't know, that's sort of what I am asking.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 23, 2017)

emanymton said:


> How odd is it that I have not heard one person at work mention this so far today?



Depends whether you work for the Metropolitan Police or on a rice farm in rural China.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

kebabking said:


> I'd put good money on it not being part of the plan, but a target of opportunity - you'll recall that 3 of the injured on the bridge were police officers walking back from a commendation ceremony: they'd have been in full uniform, medals jangling and very, very obvious. I'd not be remotely surprised if he clocked them and decided to have a pop on the spur of the moment - he may even have thought they were quite senior officers from the way they were dressed and where they were.
> 
> The whole thing was a bit 'happy shopper' as terrorism goes. Not that that helps the kids whose mums or dads didn't go home last night...


 
undoubtably - but this shows a *can do* attitude- a lone wanker with a credit card to rent a car and a yearning to go down in the record books can achieve what once would have taken a transit van full of Czech Semtex or a hold of rusty gadaffi sourced hardware to accomplish - its now a free market for horrific acts, entrepreneurial carnage.


----------



## emanymton (Mar 23, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Depends whether you work for the Metropolitan Police or on a rice farm in rural China.



North of England open plan office


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

emanymton said:


> Don't know, that's sort of what I am asking.


Well, IME, of my last two jobs, nobody ever talked about anything on the news ever, just work, but that was in schools, which tend to narrow people's focuses.
Another job I had, we talked about it all the time, but only cos we worked in a place where news had an impact on what we were doing.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

emanymton said:


> How odd is it that I have not heard one person at work mention this so far today?


it came up in conversation this morning and indeed yesterday afternoon.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 23, 2017)

Anyone see db on Sky news chatting bollocks?


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Anyone see db on Sky news chatting bollocks?


db?


----------



## emanymton (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Well, IME, of my last two jobs, nobody ever talked about anything on the news ever, just work, but that was in schools, which tend to narrow people's focuses.
> Another job I had, we talked about it all the time, but only cos we worked in a place where news had an impact on what we were doing.


People have talked about all sorts of shit. Has Keven Bacon had plastic surgery, what they had for tea last night etc. Bit not one mention of this. I am wondering how common that is.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

,,,,,


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> db?


defective boy


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Anyone see db on Sky news chatting bollocks?


no. do tell more.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> no. do tell more.



Didn't see him, police monitor tweeted about his hypocrisy


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

kebabking said:


> I'd put good money on it not being part of the plan, but a target of opportunity - you'll recall that 3 of the injured on the bridge were police officers walking back from a commendation ceremony: they'd have been in full uniform, medals jangling and very, very obvious. I'd not be remotely surprised if he clocked them and decided to have a pop on the spur of the moment - he may even have thought they were quite senior officers from the way they were dressed and where they were.
> 
> The whole thing was a bit 'happy shopper' as terrorism goes. Not that that helps the kids whose mums or dads didn't go home last night...


I was wondering along the same lines yesterday, though I didn't know about the cops in dress uniforms which makes that even more plausible.  We may never know unless an email trail of the bloke's plans emerges. However it just struck me that the 2 bits of what happened yesterday didn't really fit together.  It _might_ have been planned as 'murder by car', followed by a charge towards the parliamentary armed cops, but somehow it doesn't quite hang together.  Suppose it's easier to get a car than a gun/bomb, which might ultimately be the answer.


----------



## kebabking (Mar 23, 2017)

BBC's Laura K is reporting that she's heard an unconfirmed rumour that the plain clothes police officer who shot the attacker was one of the Defence Secretary's close protection team.

It's a little detail but it's interesting - that Officer would only have been there because the DS was in parliament, so if he'd not been there - presumably having a fag or a chat or waiting with Fallon's car - where was the next armed Police officer? 

Was parliament not quite as well protected as we might like to think?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Didn't see him, police monitor tweeted about his hypocrisy


i wonder if he said there's a 'cun - c c - conspiracy out there'


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 23, 2017)

The Beeb Live Blog getting desperate now:


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

kebabking said:


> BBC's Laura K is reporting that she's heard an unconfirmed rumour that the plain clothes police officer who shot the attacker was one of the Defence Secretary's close protection team.
> 
> It's a little detail but it's interesting - that Officer would only have been there because the DS was in parliament, so if he'd not been there - presumably having a fag or a chat or waiting with Fallon's car - where was the next armed Police officer?
> 
> Was parliament not quite as well protected as we might like to think?


as nietzsche would have said, 'unsubstantiated speculation runs riot'


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> The Beeb Live Blog getting desperate now:
> 
> View attachment 102766


how distressing that his ingress through that gate did not coincide with that of the unnamed stabber.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 23, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Reporter saying that the London Eye passengers are still being kept inside their pods.


London Eye operators, this morning: "oh yeah, I knew there was something we were supposed to do last night"


----------



## kebabking (Mar 23, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> London Eye operators, this morning: "oh yeah, I knew there was something we were supposed to do last night"



Someone get a mop...


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> how distressing that his ingress through that gate did not coincide with that of the unnamed stabber.


What, a man with his extensive military training? He could have strangled him with his creative CV.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

but sources at scotland yard say the prohibitive cost means not all officers will be offered faces


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Anyone see db on Sky news chatting bollocks?


They always wheel him out on these occasions.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> They always wheel him out on these occasions.


and then back he goes into the liquid nitrogen until the next time.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> They always wheel him out on these occasions.



I always thought he was a prick, I didn't know he was a _media _prick. Live and learn.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> They always wheel him out on these occasions.


I didn't know he was a real life person iyswim - who is he?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> and then back he goes into the liquid nitrogen until the next time.


I'm one of the few people here who actually liked the fella. Thought he was useful to have around. He did lose the plot pretty quickly though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> I'm one of the few people here who actually liked the fella.


i've long been concerned about people taking advantage of your good nature, pa. he wanted to sue me for libel - me? can you believe it?


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I didn't know he was a real life person iyswim - who is he?



Head of Community Engagement...


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I didn't know he was a real life person iyswim - who is he?


senior ex copper. I think he tried to tell me there was none of the Craft in policing circles which I find highly unlikely


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

This twat is a regular fixture on Irish radio, a failed businessman turned shock jock:



Question, has any serious security professional (of any kind, in either the public or private sector) ever recommended collective punishment or victimization of entire communities as a solution to the sort of shite that happened in London yesterday?


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i've long been concerned about people taking advantage of your good nature, pa. he wanted to sue me for libel - me? can you believe it?



Do you have any money? Give it time and I'm sure I can come up with a case.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Do you have any money? Give it time and I'm sure I can come up with a case.


i'm not so sure you can.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> This twat is a regular fixture on Irish radio, a failed businessman turned shock jock:
> 
> 
> 
> Question, has any serious security professional (of any kind, in either the public or private sector) ever recommended collective punishment or victimization of entire communities as a solution to the sort of shite that happened in London yesterday?




Senior members of NSDAP for one.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> senior ex copper. I think he tried to tell me there was none of the Craft in policing circles which I find highly unlikely


are his initials pk?


----------



## xenon (Mar 23, 2017)

8den said:


> It's weird how phrases pop into currency about a dozen politicians Have referred to the act of emergency services running towards danger and everyone runs away as a motif in speeches.




 An not quite true in this case.  Quite a phew people ran to those injured on the bridge to  try and help them.


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Question, has any serious security professional (of any kind, in either the public or private sector) ever recommended collective punishment or victimization of entire communities as a solution to the sort of shite that happened in London yesterday?



Pretty much every State ever?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> I didn't know he was a real life person iyswim - who is he?


He was a detective inspector but left the Met and had a business training CCTV operators in counter terrorism techniques. Had a few beers with him. Very interesting bloke.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Pretty much every State ever?


operation demetrius


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> This twat is a regular fixture on Irish radio, a failed businessman turned shock jock:
> 
> 
> 
> Question, has any serious security professional (of any kind, in either the public or private sector) ever recommended collective punishment or victimization of entire communities as a solution to the sort of shite that happened in London yesterday?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i've long been concerned about people taking advantage of your good nature, pa. he wanted to sue me for libel - me? can you believe it?


As I said, son, he was libel to lose the plot!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> senior ex copper.


Define 'senior'


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

Next time a boat sinks should I expect TobyJug to pop on Sky frothing at the mouth? Urban is the Commentariat.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Define 'senior'


DI


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Pretty much every State ever?





Pickman's model said:


>



Well I walked into that one, didn't I?

And you missed a trick not using this guy, by the way, Pickman's model old chap:






What I meant was, do I actually people working professionally in security areas ever advocate anything like the shite Hooky above was coming out with? After all, when Thatcher floated her lunatic notion of population transfers as a solution to the NI crisis, her civil servants were quick to inform that that would have been a majorly bad idea in the history of bad ideas.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Next time a boat sinks should I expect TobyJug to pop on Sky frothing at the mouth? Urban is the Commentariat.


you should always expect tobyjug to pop up


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> DI


I would say Superintendent, which along with Chief Superintendent is at the senior end of operational policing. They are also represented by the Police Superintendents' Association, rather than the Police Federation, which represents the lower orders, or the Chief Police Officer’s Staff Association, which represents chief police officers from the rank of ACC (or Commander in MPS) up to Chief Constable or Commissioner.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> you should always expect tobyjug to pop up


Don't take your foot off his head, then


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> I would say Superintendent, which along with Chief Superintendent is at the senior end of operational policing. They are also represented by the Police Superintendents' Association, rather than the Police Federation, which represents the lower orders, or the Chief Police Officer’s Staff Association, which represents chief police officers from the rank of ACC (or Commander in MPS) up to Chief Constable or Commissioner.


Oh, I thought you were asking what rank DB was.

Yes, DI is considered a middle ranking plod rather than Senior.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> And you missed a trick not using this guy, by the way, Pickman's model old chap:



Has The Penguin escaped from Arkham Asylum again?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Oh, I thought you were asking what rank DB was.
> 
> Yes, DI is considered a middle ranking plod rather than Senior.


db made it to DCI!


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> operation demetrius



 That was my first thought.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

I have just seen two carloads of armed OB pull a car over right outside my flat. Machine guns and all. Maybe something to do with this?

London attack: Police activity understood to be in Wales - BBC News

helicopter around too


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 102770
> but sources at scotland yard say the prohibitive cost means not all officers will be offered faces



They look like Japanese cunts to me.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Has The Penguin escape from Arkham Asylum again?


Gotham city has nothing to fear but fear itself.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I have just seen two carloads of armed OB pull a car over right outside my flat. Machine guns and all. Maybe something to do with this?


They won't be machine guns


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I have just seen two carloads of armed OB pull a car over right outside my flat. Machine guns and all. Maybe something to do with this?
> 
> London attack: Police activity understood to be in Wales - BBC News
> 
> helicopter around too




Its been an honour knowing you, please don't reveal our names.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

I think i know a machine gun when i see one ta.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I have just seen two carloads of armed OB pull a car over right outside my flat. Machine guns and all. Maybe something to do with this?
> 
> London attack: Police activity understood to be in Wales - BBC News
> 
> helicopter around too


go out now and prostrate yourself on the ground and hope they're not feeling trigger-happy.


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I have just seen two carloads of armed OB pull a car over right outside my flat. Machine guns and all. Maybe something to do with this?
> 
> London attack: Police activity understood to be in Wales - BBC News
> 
> helicopter around too



London, Birmingham, Sussex, Surrey, Wales...looks more like they want a chat with all his social media mates


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I think i know a machine gun when i see one ta.



You mean a black gun that looks like the ones you've seen on films then?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I think i know a machine gun when i see one ta.



this is not a machine gun


this is a machine gun


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> You mean a black gun that looks like the ones you've seen on films then?


I mean the ones I saw they were toting around Cardiff city centre during the NATO summit, and actually only a few months ago for no apparent reason.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Gotham city has nothing to fear but fear itself.


terrorists, by nature, are a cowardly and superstitious lot. To instill fear into their hearts, I became a bat. A monster in the night


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I think i know a machine gun when i see one ta.


Police don't use them.


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I mean the ones I saw they were toting around Cardiff city centre during the NATO summit, and actually only a few months ago for no apparent reason.



Police in this county don't have machine guns.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Police don't use them.


But they do, or maybe they were chocolate ones.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> terrorists, by nature, are a cowardly and superstitious lot. To instill fear into their hearts, I became a bat. A monster in the night


No one cared who I was until I put on the mask.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I mean the ones I saw they were toting around Cardiff city centre during the NATO summit, and actually only a few months ago for no apparent reason.


Sub-machine guns then. They shoot pistol rounds.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> But they do, or maybe they were chocolate ones.


No. You just misidentified them.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

Fuck me sideways, what a shithead:


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I mean the ones I saw they were toting around Cardiff city centre during the NATO summit, and actually only a few months ago for no apparent reason.


the ones ye see london copers wearing outside embassies etc? 

H&K mp5 submachine guns, allegedly single shot rather than auto. Very jarring to see, although those people in babylondon have become used to it i spose


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> db made it to DCI!



By 'throwing in a few fucks' no doubt.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> the ones ye see london copers wearing outside embassies etc?
> 
> H&K mp5 submachine guns, allegedly single shot rather than auto. Very jarring to see, although those people in babylondon have become used to it i spose


jer, babylondon?


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Sub-machine guns then. They shoot pistol rounds.


Pedant.


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I mean the ones I saw they were toting around Cardiff city centre during the NATO summit, and actually only a few months ago for no apparent reason.



They're not machine guns. They are single shot only, not fully automatic. The UK police do not carry fully automatic weapons, which is what a machine gun is.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> the ones ye see london copers wearing outside embassies etc?
> 
> H&K mp5 submachine guns, allegedly single shot rather than auto. Very jarring to see, although those people in babylondon have become used to it i spose



Still spooks me, even at airports. More normal if you're working in Central though I suppose, but then so is being surrounded by wankers and that gets me too.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> They're not machine guns. They are single shot only, not fully automatic. The UK police do not carry fully automatic weapons, which is what a machine gun is.




Tap-tap rather than Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


----------



## likesfish (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 102775
> this is not a machine gun
> 
> View attachment 102777
> this is a machine gun



thats an m60 a piss poor copy of an mg34 as seen on rusting on the back of a Chinook as we got them free and crab air is too lazy to clean them.
the guns that the coppers have are usually restricted to semi automatic fire which according to yank gunnuts makes them sporting carbines that fire flowers and peace


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Still spooks me, even at airports.



Amazes me how they get them past security at Heathrow.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Fuck me sideways, what a shithead:



she lives in america so 'notanimmigrant' is another coke fueled lie


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> the ones ye see london copers wearing outside embassies etc?
> 
> H&K mp5 submachine guns, allegedly single shot rather than auto. Very jarring to see, although those people in babylondon have become used to it i spose


First time I ever saw was in Baby-Belfast, which you'd expect, but in the hands of a peeler escorting a band of 12 year old football supporters down Royal Avenue, which I didn't expect.


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Pedant.



Maybe be better to just have said "sorry I was wrong" instead?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

likesfish said:


> thats an m60 a piss poor copy of an mg34 as seen on rusting on the back of a Chinook as we got them free and crab air is too lazy to clean them.
> the guns that the coppers have are usually restricted to semi automatic fire which according to yank gunnuts makes them sporting carbines that fire flowers and peace


yeh i know it's an m60. it is a machine gun none the less.

but here's a good auld british machine gun, if it makes you feel any better


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Maybe just say "sorry I was wrong" then?


Nope.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Amazes me how they get them past security at Heathrow.



Lots of lube and years of practice. Not called Heckler & _Koch_ for nothing.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

I like the fact that Urbanites will always go off on a long tangent about guns, whatever the situation, should use it for communal bonding with nutjob right wing boards.


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Fuck me sideways, what a shithead:




That's a new charge aimed at Russia isn't it?  Strikes me as bollocks but still.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

YouSir said:


> I like the fact that Urbanites will always go off on a long tangent about guns, whatever the situation, should use it for communal bonding with nutjob right wing boards.


Technically, _The Gunporn Turn_


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> Sub-machine guns then. They shoot pistol rounds.



No. Not sub-machine guns either (because they're not capable of automatic fire). Carbines.


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> Nope.



Nice response. State something. Get corrected. Insist you're right. Get proved you're wrong. Call the person a pedant.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> That's a new charge aimed at Russia isn't it?  Strikes me as bollocks but still.


Well, she quite obviously pulled it out of her arse. And this idiot was an MP!


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

Athos said:


> No. Not sub-machine guns either (because they're not capable of automatic fire). Carbines.



The police carry both sub-machine guns converted to semi-automatic only and also larger caliber weapons that also fire the same - I guess assault rifles in common parlance. Both look like machine guns to teqniq.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

YouSir said:


> I like the fact that Urbanites will always go off on a long tangent about guns, whatever the situation, should use it for communal bonding with nutjob right wing boards.


Begins: "We are not so different, you and I".

Ends: "burn the heretics!"


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Nice response. State something. Get corrected. Insist you're right. Get proved you're wrong. Call the person a pedant.


Welcome to urban75!


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> The police carry both sub-machine guns converted to semi-automatic only...



If they're not capable of automatic fire, they they can't really be described as sub-machine guns. They're carbines.


----------



## kebabking (Mar 23, 2017)

The MP5 - the 9mm semi-automatic carbine that caused such excitement when it first fell into police hands in the early 1980's - is on its way out.

Not powerful enough - when it came out the idea was to use low powered ammunition that wouldn't ricochet off everything for days on end killing civpop who were unlucky enough to be around, however the world moves on, and the 9mm is crap at penetrating body armour and cars. Most Police forces use military rifles these days - the German G36 rifle being quite popular...


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

kebabking said:


> The MP5 - the 9mm semi-automatic carbine that caused such excitement when it first fell into police hands in the early 1980's - is on its way out.
> 
> Not powerful enough - when it came out the idea was to use low powered ammunition that wouldn't ricochet off everything for days on end killing civpop who were unlucky enough to be around, however the world moves on, and the 9mm is crap at penetrating body armour and cars. Most Police forces use military rifles these days - the German G36 rifle being quite popular...



Home Office police forces use a semi-automatic variant of it, though.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh i know it's an m60. it is a machine gun none the less.
> 
> but here's a good auld british machine gun, if it makes you feel any better
> 
> View attachment 102780



The relaxed posture, the sand and water butt suggest less a machine gun but rather some 1930s seaside tea-making machine. I swear there's a large picnic hamper just out of view.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 23, 2017)

A sub-machine gun is a type of machine gun according to most dictionaries and the ATF


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

GUN WANKERS.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

Idris2002 said:


> Well, she quite obviously pulled it out of her arse. And this idiot was an MP!



a crap one who was never in her constituency and bailed triggering a bye-election so she could move to americaland where right wing bile with an english posh accent gets treated as sage wisdom


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

If it's not black powder it's for pussies. I'd even be for the police being armed if they were obliged to carry muskets. And possibly dress like Sharpe's Chosen Men. Only not as well, obviously, because they're police and don't deserve it.


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> A sub-machine gun is a type of machine gun according to most dictionaries and the ATF



But UK Home Office police forces don't have sub-machine guns (or Aby other machine guns).


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

YouSir said:


> If it's not black powder it's for pussies. I'd even be for the police being armed if they were obliged to carry muskets. And possibly dress like Sharpe's Chosen Men. Only not as well, obviously, because they're police and don't deserve it.


Chosen Men had rifles.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 23, 2017)

Athos said:


> But UK Home Office police forces don't have sub-machine guns (or Aby other machine guns).



I don't care


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 23, 2017)

whats wrong with you all? Did nobody watch _The Sweeny? _ The correct term is "shooters"


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I don't care


You cared enough to post on the subject.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 23, 2017)

kebabking said:


> The MP5 - the 9mm semi-automatic carbine that caused such excitement when it first fell into police hands in the early 1980's - is on its way out.
> 
> Not powerful enough - when it came out the idea was to use low powered ammunition that wouldn't ricochet off everything for days on end killing civpop who were unlucky enough to be around, however the world moves on, and the 9mm is crap at penetrating body armour and cars. Most Police forces use military rifles these days - the German G36 rifle being quite popular...



which they are now trying to replace as allegedly doesnt do so well in extended gun battles.
  even though the uk polices last extended gun battle was 1911.
  Sussex police has silenced submachine guns the snubby mp5k that can be worn in a shoulder holster for covert wear if you want to look like somebody carrying a sub machine gun in a shoulder holster.

Copper who showed us the armoury wasn't actually sure why they had half the kit best bets either HK did them a really good deal the sales woman had a really short skirt on.
 or the home office gave them a large grant told them to go by HK kit and hk filled the shopping basket.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Chosen Men had rifles.



And Mr. Knock. Another reason why musket wielding police shouldn't be allowed uniforms quite as nice.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 23, 2017)

Athos said:


> You cared enough to post on the subject.



I didn't post on the subject. What are you on about?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> managed to shit up an episode of doctor who- fuck him



_Two_ episodes.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

"_I'll give you my gun when you pry it from cold dead urban login_"


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 23, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Amazes me how they get them past security at Heathrow.


I'm airside at Stanstead now. There were a few armed OB in baseball caps before security but none over here


----------



## likesfish (Mar 23, 2017)

Kaka Tim said:


> The relaxed posture, the sand and water butt suggest less a machine gun but rather some 1930s seaside tea-making machine. I swear there's a large picnic hamper just out of view.



you can make tea with a vickers gun as its water cooled I imagine its fairly foul being flavored with asbestos and gun oil but as one veteran said to somebody who thought that was a myth you werent in the tenches were you?


----------



## Athos (Mar 23, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> I didn't post on the subject. What are you on about?





bi0boy said:


> A sub-machine gun is a type of machine gun according to most dictionaries and the ATF


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

Can we move on from the weapons fetish now and get back to the subject? Apologies for my part in the boring derail.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> The police carry both sub-machine guns converted to semi-automatic only



Technically, not a conversion but a variant (MP5SFA2)


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> I'm airside at Stanstead now. There were a few armed OB in baseball caps before security but none over here



Stansted security doing their job, unlike the slackers over at Heathrow.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> The police carry both sub-machine guns converted to semi-automatic only and also larger caliber weapons that also fire the same - I guess assault rifles in common parlance. Both look like machine guns to teqniq.


*Warning Daily Mail link ahead!*
Mail helpfully labelled some of the kit deployed (though they appear to have missed '10').


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Technically, not a conversion but a variant (MP5SFA2)



Well done, first prize in the geeky weapon pedants award for 2017. Last post on this shit derail, honestly...


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> "_I'll give you my gun when you pry it from cold dead urban login_"



As the Anarchist edge fades from these forums should we just start talking unceasingly about guns? See if we can get ourselves back on those government watch lists.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Mar 23, 2017)

likesfish said:


> you can make tea with a vickers gun as its water cooled I imagine its fairly foul being flavored with asbestos and gun oil but as one veteran said to somebody who thought that was a myth you werent in the tenches were you?



 Probably better than the stuff that comes out of those machines at service stations. 
My dad was in the army in kenya (just after the war) and he says they had to make tea with hot water from the truck radiator.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> *Warning Daily Mail link ahead!*
> Mail helpfully labelled some of the kit deployed (though they appear to have missed '10').
> 
> View attachment 102782



Fucking Air Soft has gotten way out of hand.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> *Warning Daily Mail link ahead!*
> Mail helpfully labelled some of the kit deployed (though they appear to have missed '10').
> 
> View attachment 102782


yer man fourth from left's drawn the short straw:

PONCE


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> *Warning Daily Mail link ahead!*
> Mail helpfully labelled some of the kit deployed (though they appear to have missed '10').
> 
> View attachment 102782




 
In case they need to release a re-mix of Walking on the Moon?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Spymaster said:


> baseball caps



Rounders hats IYP


----------



## LDC (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yer man fourth from left's drawn the short straw:



It's cos he's the lad on work experience. Look at his eyes. Thousand yard stare? More like six inch gaze.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> *Warning Daily Mail link ahead!*
> Mail helpfully labelled some of the kit deployed (though they appear to have missed '10').
> 
> View attachment 102782


They appear to have sourced their ladders from an informercial showing on ITV3 at five in the morning


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yer man fourth from left's drawn the short straw:
> View attachment 102783
> PONCE


"Come on lads, who's nicked me goggles AGAIN? Sarge! Sarge! They're picking on me!"


----------



## YouSir (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> "Come on lads, who's nicked me goggles AGAIN? Sarge! Sarge! They're picking on me!"



'I need you to go down the arms fair and get us some sky hooks and tartan paint, try H&K, they'll have 'em.'


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> They appear to have sourced their ladders from an informercial showing on ITV3 at five in the morning


Mrs B looked at the pic and said she thought they'd "_bought their costumes down Lidl" _


----------



## kebabking (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Can we move on from the weapons fetish now and get back to the subject? Apologies for my part in the boring derail.



You love it, you slaaaaaaag.


----------



## 2hats (Mar 23, 2017)

BBC reporting that the police have named the assailant as Khalid Masood, a 52 year old man born in Kent, living in the West Midlands. Had previous convictions for criminal damage, possession of a knife. No previous terrorist convictions.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

2hats said:


> BBC reporting that the police have named the assailant as Kahlid Masood, a 52 year old man born in Kent, living in the West Midlands. Had previous convictions for criminal damage, possession of a knife. No previous terrorist convictions.


khalid


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

2hats said:


> BBC reporting that the police have named the assailant as Kahlid Masood, a 52 year old man born in Kent, living in the West Midlands. Had previous convictions for criminal damage, possession of a knife. No previous terrorist convictions.


Er...I think you'll find the phrase is *Kent-born.*
I reckon _ish-Man, _rather than _of-Kent._


----------



## likesfish (Mar 23, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Fucking Air Soft has gotten way out of hand.



I know somebody who got into trouble when herefords finest got out of a chinook doing their best ultimate force impression clad head to foot in crye (combat fashion its a thing)

somebody asked him are those guys Special Forces ?
 He replied yeah or somebodys airsoft club has gone way overbudget


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Er...I think you'll find the phrase is *Kent-born.*
> I reckon _ish-Man, _rather than _of-Kent._


not to be confused with american musician and ruddy yurts' long time collaborator, kent mannish

existentialist Libertad


----------



## kebabking (Mar 23, 2017)

There was a big raid on a flat on the Hagley Road in Birmingham last night - unmarked cars, helicopter and OB tooled up enough to take Mosul in an afternoon...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Er...I think you'll find the phrase is *Kent-born.*
> I reckon _ish-Man, _rather than _of-Kent._


Fuck off, all the hallmarks of a Terrorist-of-Kent


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

kebabking said:


> There was a big raid on a flat on the Hagley Road in Birmingham last night - unmarked cars, helicopter and OB tooled up enough to take Mosul in an afternoon...


yeh. but they're all yellow which is why mosul remains in the state it's in


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Fuck off, all the hallmarks of a Terrorist-of-Kent


No fucking way. My contacts in the East Kent "popular" people's Front (Medway bridge blowing brigade) would have known.


----------



## kebabking (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> No fucking way. My contacts in the East Kent "popular" people's Front (Medway bridge blowing brigade) would have known.



Orange jumpsuit sir?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

likesfish said:


> ... clad head to foot in crye (combat fashion its a thing)...



Least sexy BDSM gear EVER

Crye Precision


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> No fucking way. My contacts in the East Kent "popular" people's Front (Medway bridge blowing brigade) would have known.


they know. they simply didn't tell you.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

Harsh responses. Probably Cuntish men.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

I like how insistent they are about their gear being all US made with US materials. Wouldn't want to accidentally buy no stinkin commie camo


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Harsh responses. Probably Cuntish men.


You want to go on The List? I can put you on The List if you like


----------



## hot air baboon (Mar 23, 2017)

the Police always seem to be packing much whizzier looking bang-bangs and robo-gear to wander around Heathrow with than squaddies get given to patrol the meanest bits of Iraq-Afghanistan...is it cos they've got a better union...


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

hot air baboon said:


> the Police always seem to be packing much whizzier looking bang-bangs and robo-gear than squaddies get given to patrol the meanest bits of Iraq-Afghanistan...is it cos they've got a better union...


they don't have a union


----------



## nuffsaid (Mar 23, 2017)

Farage chipping in now - from the Guardian Live feed -

Nigel Farage has appeared twice on US television already, today arguing that the London attacks prove Donald Trump is right on hardline immigration and anti-Muslim policy.

“It seems to me our political leaders really ought to start saying sorry,” the former Ukip leader told Tucker Carlson on Fox News on Thursday morning.

And Katie Hopkins (bless her) -

He wasn’t the only hardline conservative to appear in the US media. the Daily Mail columnist Katie Hopkins also turned up on Carlson’s Fox show, echoing Farage’s xenophobic rhetoric.

"We’re a country that spends so much time tiptoeing around the cultures that refuse to join us and not enough time defending the culture they’ve chosen to join, but because I say those things I am widely hated for those views. People are cowed, people are afraid and people are not united."


----------



## hot air baboon (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> they don't have a union



Police Federation - Home


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> they don't have a union


That's not what I heard.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Fuck off, all the hallmarks of a Terrorist-of-Kent




Anyone seen longdog lately?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Mar 23, 2017)

nuffsaid said:


> Farage chipping in now - from the Guardian Live feed -
> 
> Nigel Farage has appeared twice on US television already, today arguing that the London attacks prove Donald Trump is right on hardline immigration and anti-Muslim policy.
> 
> ...



Farage is right, all people from Kent should be pushed in to the sea. Starting with Farage. In fact, you can end once he's been done.


----------



## 8den (Mar 23, 2017)

Fucking hell, she's gone full Jazzz.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Nice response. State something. Get corrected. Insist you're right. Get proved you're wrong. Call the person a pedant.


I thought it was perfectly adequate. To the hitherto uneducated Joe public (me) who doesn't know a great deal about guns in general, _they look like machine guns_ and indeed a variant of them actually is. I now know they actually are not for which I am grateful but I fail to see why you think an apology is required for what was in effect a genuine mistake.


----------



## Indeliblelink (Mar 23, 2017)

Man held for 'driving at crowd' in Antwerp, Belgium - BBC News


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> they don't have a union


Ah, it's the Rt Hon Member for Surgical Accuracy


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 23, 2017)

8den said:


> Fucking hell, she's gone full Jazzz.



Oi, you, I posted that first.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 23, 2017)

hot air baboon said:


> the Police always seem to be packing much whizzier looking bang-bangs and robo-gear to wander around Heathrow with than squaddies get given to patrol the meanest bits of Iraq-Afghanistan...is it cos they've got a better union...



part of the reason why the police look like they have covered themselves in glue and rolled around in the latest gear
 is deliberate so they look as intimidating as fuck and people dont even try to shoot it outwith them.
  That or they are total gear whores who never have to walk more than a mile and have nobody in the chain of command who knows enough to call them on their idiocy


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 23, 2017)

Indeliblelink said:


> Man held for 'driving at crowd' in Antwerp, Belgium - BBC News


 

I have driven in Belgium many times, I know how frustrated he must have felt. I was close to going postal and driving furiously  myself


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

hot air baboon said:


> Police Federation - Home


not a union.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I have just seen two carloads of armed OB pull a car over right outside my flat. Machine guns and all. Maybe something to do with this?
> 
> London attack: Police activity understood to be in Wales - BBC News
> 
> helicopter around too


There were some goings-on in Pembrokeshire, with police sealing off a road (and the Cleddau Bridge) in one direction. No idea what it was about, though...

ETA: and _no mention whatsoever of it_ in the local traffic reports  *watches out for black helicopters*


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> senior ex copper. I think he tried to tell me there was none of the Craft in policing circles which I find highly unlikely





Reminds me of the bunfight that was the 'Ask a freemason' thread!


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 23, 2017)

2hats said:


> BBC reporting that the police have named the assailant as Khalid Masood, a 52 year old man born in Kent, living in the West Midlands. Had previous convictions for criminal damage, possession of a knife. No previous terrorist convictions.



Big liberal sighs of relief all round.


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Big liberal sighs of relief all round.



Born on Xmas day.   Thats got to fuck you up a bit.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> Born on Xmas day.   Thats got to fuck you up a bit.


Jesus


----------



## gosub (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Jesus



I was thinking more the lack of presents. And same meal every birthday, and sharing a birthday with Noel Edmunds. But true, that bloke had a martyr complex


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

R4 'PM' has, thus far, been an extended piece of arse-covering/justification from the deep state.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> R4 'PM' has, thus far, been an extended piece of arse-covering/justification from the deep state.


you listened so we didn't have to


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Jesus


jc only given his birthday centuries after his death


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> I was thinking more the lack of presents. And same meal every birthday, and sharing a birthday with Noel Edmunds. .


No wonder the man converted.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> you listened so we didn't have to


Have to admit I did bail/bale from yesterday's programme at the point where they asked Gove-the-Brave for his recollection of his part in taking out the terrist


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Have to admit I did bail/bale from yesterday's programme at the point where they asked Gove-the-Brave for his recollection of his part in taking out the terrist


no one would have wanted you to listen to that


----------



## EastEnder (Mar 23, 2017)

I realise that in the grand scheme of things this is a bit of a petty niggle, but I do wish Sky News would drop the perpetual "Breaking News" banner... they've had it up _continuously_ since yesterday, and I can't help but feel that rather defeats the purpose...


----------



## planetgeli (Mar 23, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> I have driven in Belgium many times, I know how frustrated he must have felt. I was close to going postal and driving furiously  myself



And it was in Antwerp. He'd probably been on the ring road. Makes the M25 at peak period seem a haven of tranquility.


----------



## hot air baboon (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> not a union.



compared to what the army has it is !


----------



## felixthecat (Mar 23, 2017)

gosub said:


> I was thinking more the lack of presents. And same meal every birthday, and sharing a birthday with Noel Edmunds. But true, that bloke had a martyr complex


 A slight derail maybe but Noel Edmonds wasn't born on Christmas Day. I know this useless fact from compiling a Christmas themed quiz for work


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

felixthecat said:


> A slight derail maybe but Noel Edmonds wasn't born on Christmas Day. I know this useless fact from compiling a Christmas themed quiz for work


22/12/1948


----------



## J Ed (Mar 23, 2017)

8den said:


> Fucking hell, she's gone full Jazzz.




She is now a respected analyst amongst US liberals, the Clinton campaign held her in V high regard.


----------



## steveo87 (Mar 23, 2017)

8den said:


> Fucking hell, she's gone full Jazzz.



Cocaine's a hell of a drug.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

Bit like SSGB in reverse...


----------



## bimble (Mar 23, 2017)




----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Bit like SSGB in reverse...
> 
> View attachment 102792


Starts really, really shit, carries on being shit for ages, before getting quite interesting for a short time?


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

bimble said:


> View attachment 102793


I heard he has a 'German born' wife who has _converted_ to UKIP.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Bit like SSGB in reverse...
> 
> View attachment 102792


In the middle of tragedy life carries on - but as an episode of Brass Eye.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I heard he has a 'German born' wife who has _converted_ to UKIP.


Both radicalised in the 'madrassa'...


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

Given they had to sit through a full 5 hour lockdown in the Chamber and could only take a shit behind the Speaker's Chair, wouldn't it be a nice gesture to restore MP's full expenses?  Having to provide receipts and not claim for Wisteria is like giving in to ISIS.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> I heard he has a 'German born' wife who has _converted_ to UKIP.


It's okay, she's been recently deradicalised


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Both radicalised in the 'madrassa'...
> 
> View attachment 102794


The mysterious pull of the Middle Oast


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> It's okay, she's been recently deradicalised


Yes, I think he went off to radicalise someone another woman. He's quite the evangelical isn't he?


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> The mysterious pull of the Middle Oast


From Koln to Kiln to Nelson and Colne. Migrant's nightmare.


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> managed to shit up an episode of doctor who- fuck him


2 episodes.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

The effort the state broadcaster has put into telling us that this guy was a no-mark off the radar...makes me wonder quite what bollock the former Home Secretary dropped with this one.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 23, 2017)

this isnt terrorism

this is the uk muslim version of walking into a mall with an ar15 and shooting everything moves till the swat team put you down
 pity the cunt couldnt just run screaming at no 10 waving his knife around and leave everybody else out of his sucide run


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 23, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> cancelled The Chase. Those terrorists have gone too far this time.



Yet Pointless goes on. Bastards.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Buckaroo said:


> Yet Pointless goes on. Bastards.


'Osman' sounds a bit Islamic


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 23, 2017)

likesfish said:


> this isnt terrorism
> 
> this is the uk muslim version of walking into a mall with an ar15 and shooting everything moves till the swat team put you down
> pity the cunt couldnt just run screaming at no 10 waving his knife around and leave everybody else out of his sucide run


I've been avoiding the news all day today. No doubt they will be talking about lessons to learn and things to do and security to tighten and people to monitor. 

But the truth is that there are no lessons to learn. A lone actor determined to die in the act of killing can do this. We knew that already.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I've been avoiding the news all day today. No doubt they will be talking about lessons to learn and things to do and security to tighten and people to monitor.
> 
> But the truth is that there are no lessons to learn. A lone actor determined to die in the act of killing can do this. We knew that already.



Everyone could be armed with shotguns and tyre deflation rounds. I'd expect the Americans to try this first though. A better solution would be mandatory self-driving cars. Perhaps self-driving cars that are programmed to mow down pedestrians wielding knives.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Mar 23, 2017)

The only thing that needs to change is the media having a collective wank about it


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

Relgion should be treated in the same as any other mental illness.


----------



## not a trot (Mar 23, 2017)

Mumbles274 said:


> The only thing that needs to change is the media having a collective wank about it



Felt sorry for the BBC Breakfast team having to do the whole programme standing in Westminster this morning. You'd have thought they could have borrowed a sofa from somewhere.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 23, 2017)

I went past the flat where one of those arrested lives today, as I do every week day, felt very strange.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Relgion should be treated in the same as any other mental illness.





green.tea said:


> fuck this north korea bs. im going back to reddit


You did promise.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> You did promise.



Why shouldnt religion be treated as a mental illness? Whats the objective difference between someone sectioned for thinking that the roses are talking to him and someone thinking that the invisible man in the sky is talking to him?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Why shouldnt religion be treated as a mental illness? Whats the objective difference between someone sectioned for thinking that the roses are talking to him and someone thinking that the invisible man in the sky is talking to him?


Don't waste your time, pal...I'm a fundamentalist ignostic.
Now, thought you were off to Reddit?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Don't waste your time, pal...I'm a fundamentalist ignostic.
> Now, thought you were off to Reddit?



If loads of people started thinking the roses were talking would it alter the degree to which it is a mental illness?

There is no rational justification for religion. Thats a fact, not a matter of opinion.

How is it fair on peoplel who are sectioned when people who are just as delusional are not. You could use all the same arguments to justify delusions for which people are sectioned. You cant prove 100% that the roses are not talking to a person.


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Why shouldnt religion be treated as a mental illness? Whats the objective difference between someone sectioned for thinking that the roses are talking to him and someone thinking that the invisible man in the sky is talking to him?



Why should either be sectioned?


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> If loads of people started thinking the roses were talking would it alter the degree to which it is a mental illness?
> 
> There is no rational justification for religion. Thats a fact, not a matter of opinion.


Won't anyone in your place speak to you?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

Buckaroo said:


> Why should either be sectioned?



The same criteria should apply in all cases irrespective of how many other people share the same delusion.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

You're trying too hard; Reddit thataway-------->>>


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

brogdale said:


> You're trying too hard; Reddit thataway-------->>>



I'm right. You can't justify this incostistency_._


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I'm right. You can't justify this incostistency_._



People are not sectioned for saying or believing roses are talking to them. Your comparison is shit and does not highlight an inconsistency. This is why you are wrong.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 23, 2017)

Buckaroo said:


> Why should either be sectioned?


Look guys. You've had your fun with the sectioning. There's going to be no more sectioning today.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 23, 2017)

are the roses saying thankyou very much for feeding william?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> People are not sectioned for saying or believing roses are talking to them. Your comparison is shit and does not highlight an inconsistency. This is why you are wrong.



What about this guy?



Would you deal with him by trying to convince him that the roses are infact telling him to adopt a liberal world view with femionism and gay rights? Or would you treat the mental illness of his thinking that the roses are talking to him at all?


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

I lived in (mental health) supported accommodation at the time of the lee rigby killings. The (mainly Muslim) staff complained bitterly about the stigmatising association of Islam and that (and other) killings. They told me it was 'obviously' because the perpetrators had a 'mental illness'.

I don't think they had much concept  of irony.


----------



## taffboy gwyrdd (Mar 23, 2017)




----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

Fuck off green.tea


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)




----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


>



Hardly an obstruse request on my part.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Hardly an obstruse request on my part.



Was quite rude.


----------



## weltweit (Mar 23, 2017)

A 75 year old man injured in the attack, on the bridge, has now died.


----------



## T & P (Mar 23, 2017)

kebabking said:


> The MP5 - the 9mm semi-automatic carbine that caused such excitement when it first fell into police hands in the early 1980's - is on its way out.
> 
> Not powerful enough - when it came out the idea was to use low powered ammunition that wouldn't ricochet off everything for days on end killing civpop who were unlucky enough to be around, however the world moves on, and the 9mm is crap at penetrating body armour and cars. Most Police forces use military rifles these days - the German G36 rifle being quite popular...



They should equip them with these, for the lulz if nothing else


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

weltweit said:


> A 75 year old man injured in the attack, on the bridge, has now died.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 23, 2017)

police raided a house in brighton linked to the attacks


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

weltweit said:


> A 75 year old man injured in the attack, on the bridge, has now died.




Poor sod


----------



## longdog (Mar 23, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Anyone seen longdog lately?



I was busy placing IED charges on all bridges over the Medway to keep those pesky Kentish types out of god's chosen land.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 23, 2017)

longdog said:


> I was busy placing IED charges on all bridges over the Medway to keep those pesky Kentish types out of god's chosen land.


BOOM


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

Interesting take from Simon Jenkins on Newsnight last night, saying we should treat the event as a crime:

Not sure what to make of it, or Jenkins, who I thought was a right wing rentagob. 
Found myself agreeing with him on how the media choose to report it, but I'm not sure what he means when he says the media should report it as a crime. A terrorist act IS a crime. I do think media and politicians ought to pipe down about it being an attack on 'our' values and such.


----------



## tommers (Mar 23, 2017)

longdog said:


> I was busy placing IED charges on all bridges over the Medway to keep those pesky Kentish types out of god's chosen land.


Don't forget the tunnel.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Interesting take from Simon Jenkins on Newsnight last night, saying we should treat the event as a crime:
> 
> Not sure what to make of it, or Jenkins, who I thought was a right wing rentagob.
> Found myself agreeing with him on how the media choose to report it, but I'm not sure what he means when he says the media should report it as a crime. A terrorist act IS a crime. I do think media and politicians ought to pipe down about it being an attack on 'our' values and such.



Jenkins has never been a straightforward r/w rentagob. Also has interesting views on British militarism (very anti).


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Was quite rude.


You'll get used to it


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Jenkins has never been a straightforward r/w rentagob. Also has interesting views on British militarism (very anti).


Wouldn't be much of a rentagob if he just said what he thought would he


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

Why do the news keep including the attacker in the "death toll"??


Orang Utan said:


> Interesting take from Simon Jenkins on Newsnight last night, saying we should treat the event as a crime:
> 
> Not sure what to make of it, or Jenkins, who I thought was a right wing rentagob.
> Found myself agreeing with him on how the media choose to report it, but I'm not sure what he means when he says the media should report it as a crime. A terrorist act IS a crime. I do think media and politicians ought to pipe down about it being an attack on 'our' values and such.




I don't think we need to worry too much about giving the terrorists the publicity they desire, because their strategy isn't based on reality. In reality theres no way that running people over with cars is going to bring abaout a global caliphate, irrespective of how much publicity it gets. Saying "oh but giving it publicity plays into their strategy" gives their strategy far too much credibility. This should be reported as a problem stemming from institusionalised mental illness. Not as some big scary ideological opponent. These people are utterly pathetic and what their delusional little minds want or don't want is irrelevant.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

fuck off dawkins


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

Very narrow and shallow notion you have of mental illness green.tea  to conceive of it purely by 'rationality', excluding eg issues around mood, concentration, memory, obsessiveness etc


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 23, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Very narrow and shallow notion you have of mental illness green.tea  to conceive of it purely by 'rationality', excluding eg issues around mood, concentration, memory, obsessiveness etc


One might even suspect that gt doesn't have a clue what they are talking about...


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Was quite rude.


Okay, _please_ fuck off.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Why do the news keep including the attacker in the "death toll"??


because he died in the incident


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Very narrow and shallow notion you have of mental illness green.tea  to conceive of it purely by 'rationality', excluding eg issues around mood, concentration, memory, obsessiveness etc



I'm not "conceiving it purely by rationality". Just because there are different types of mental illness doesn't mean that irrational delusions aren't one of them.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> because he died in the incident



I don't like it. They should say 4 victims and put the attacker on a different list.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> _please_ fuck off.



When I used to ride the Chiltern's line (to which I look back fondly, my god I hate southern rail), the sign read 'Please*, *keep your feet off the seats'.

The comma added humanity, if not an element of passive-aggression, to the request.


----------



## xenon (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> They're not machine guns. They are single shot only, not fully automatic. The UK police do not carry fully automatic weapons, which is what a machine gun is.



 MP5s  do full auto burst or semi auto.  Omitted Lee they might have modified ones that prohibit or prevent full auto.  I doubt they look much different though.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Okay, _please_ fuck off.



Am I spoiling your echo chamber?


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I don't like it. They should say 4 victims and put the attacker on a different list.


why?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 23, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> When I used to ride the Chiltern's line (to which I look back fondly, my god I hate southern rail), the sign read 'Please*, *keep your feet off the seats'.
> 
> The comma added humanity, if not an element of passive-aggression, to the request.


Spot on. It absolutely does both those things.

tbh wilf just comes across as insincere without the comma.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I'm not "conceiving it purely by rationality". Just because there are different types of mental illness doesn't mean that irrational delusions aren't one of them.



So there are mental illnesses which exist purely as 'irrational delusions' (of which Islam is an example), or Islam contains 'symptoms' of other categories (e.g. disorganised thoughts)


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> why?



Because the story is that 4 people are murdered by a nutjob. Not that 5 people have died.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Am I spoiling your echo chamber?



Yes I'm dreadfully triggered by this.

How long before you suggest posters like to watch guys fuck their wives?


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Because the story is that 4 people are murdered by a nutjob. Not that 5 people have died.



Er he's 'mentally ill' (apparently), so perhaps not murder after all


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

Be fascinated to hear more diagnostic brilliance from green.tea


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Because the story is that 4 people are murdered by a nutjob. Not that 5 people have died.


the story is that four people were murdered and the assailant was shot dead by police, making five dead people.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> So there are mental illnesses which exist purely as 'irrational delusions' (of which Islam is an example), or Islam contains 'symptoms' of other categories (e.g. disorganised thoughts)


logic here seems to be that anyone with an irrational belief is mentally ill. which makes all of us.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Am I spoiling your echo chamber?


No, you're coming out with the sort of shite that equates belief systems with mental illness, in a way that somehow manages to insult both the religious and the mentally ill.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Er he's 'mentally ill' (apparently), so perhaps not murder after all



Until application of the mental health act changes to reflect that it remains murder.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> When I used to ride the Chiltern's line (to which I look back fondly, my god I hate southern rail), the sign read 'Please*, *keep your feet off the seats'.
> 
> The comma added humanity, if not an element of passive-aggression, to the request.



Actually saying both iterations aloud makes me rethink that. 

'Please keep your feet off the seats' doesn't sound passive aggressive, but it is passive, in a weary way. 

'Please, keep your feet off the seats'' has more oomph to it. A muscular quality. If a little sharp.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 23, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Actually saying both iterations aloud makes me rethink that.
> 
> 'Please keep your feet off the seats' doesn't sound passive aggressive, but it is passive, in a weary way.
> 
> 'Please, keep your feet off the seats'' has more oomph to it. A muscular quality. If a little sharp.


It has a weary _Do I really have to say this? _quality to it. 

I approve.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Spot on. It absolutely does both those things.
> 
> tbh wilf just comes across as insincere without the comma.


There was a comma *and* I italicised, it was like sincerity central. Oh, sorry, _sincerity central_.


----------



## xenon (Mar 23, 2017)

LynnDoyleCooper said:


> Well done, first prize in the geeky weapon pedants award for 2017. Last post on this shit derail, honestly...





 I'm just catching up.  You're right though, it is bollocks


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> logic here seems to be that anyone with an irrational belief is mentally ill. which makes all of us.



To a degree thats probably true. But most personality disorders and mental illnesses exist to varying degrees. Religion involves belief in things that simply arent there, which makes it at the more severe end of delusion. Plus it can motivate violent behaviour. But as it is an illness, even in a peaceful form it is a threat to society because the afflicted engage in coordinated attemts to afflict others.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Until application of the mental health act changes to reflect that it remains murder.



Are you this bereft of company?


----------



## teqniq (Mar 23, 2017)

What a difference a comma makes. Won't perhaps sound very good if you try to sing it to the well-known tune though.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

Wilf said:


> There was a comma *and* I italicised, it was like sincerity central. Oh, sorry, _sincerity central_.



But as '_please_ fuck off' it was weak, limp even. A little smug.

 'please, fuck off' on the other hand would convey authority, the grown up, a serious person.

The former relies upon the backing of others. The latter stands upon its own gusto. 

Something to think about


----------



## Wilf (Mar 23, 2017)

teqniq said:


> What a difference a comma makes. Won't perhaps sound very good if you try to sing it to the well-known tune though.


'What a difference a comma makes, 24 little cedillas...'


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> To a degree thats probably true. But most personality disorders and mental illnesses exist to varying degrees. Religion involves belief in things that simply arent there, which makes it at the more severe end of delusion. Plus it can motivate violent behaviour. But as it is an illness, even in a peaceful form it is a threat to society because the afflicted engage in coordinated attemts to afflict others.


what absolute poppycock. i bet you believe in things that simply aren't there.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 23, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> what absolute poppycock. i bet you believe in things that simply aren't there.



I bet I don't. I believe in very little.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 23, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Until application of the mental health act changes to reflect that it remains murder.



Yet more bollocks. Crap trolling this.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I bet I don't. I believe in very little.


you seem to believe that your views have some worth


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Relgion should be treated in the same as any other mental illness.



Post 915, page 31 , was that your first post on this thread? Fancy a gamble on you lasting to page 40? Go for it and beat your Glastonbury and Scotland thread-page-records ...


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> you seem to believe that your views have some worth



fuck off

bollocks

crap trolling

dont seem like particularly good counter arguments


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Yet more bollocks. Crap trolling this.




Doesn't even bother to attempt learning anything new from his earlier efforts ....


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> fuck off
> 
> bollocks
> 
> ...



Or bad, particularly?


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> dont seem like good particularly counter arguments



Some punctuation would help here, that's for sure. 

How about you respond to he questions/arguments put to you, rather than get all triggered by mean words.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> But as '_please_ fuck off' it was weak, limp even. A little smug.
> 
> 'please, fuck off' on the other hand would convey authority, the grown up, a serious person.
> 
> ...



'Won't you _pleease_ fuck off?' - conveys a languid ennui, sort of thing Hans Gruber would say to that twat John McClane when he refused to die
'Fuck off Hans' - the sort of thing Bruce Willis would say, because he's a shit actor


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> fuck off
> 
> bollocks
> 
> ...


juvenile absolutism is not a good counter argument


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> How about you respond to the questions/arguments put to you, rather than get all triggered by mean words.



Corrected for yer ...


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> 'Won't you _pleease_ fuck off?' - conveys a languid ennui, sort of thing Hans Gruber would say to that twat John McClane when he refused to die
> 'Fuck off Hans' - the sort of thing Bruce Willis would say, because he's a shit actor



But 'Hans, fuck off' would convey that Bruce had serious, adult stuff to be doing; no time for hans' childish nonsense.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Some punctuation would help here, that's for sure.
> 
> How about you respond to he questions/arguments put to you, rather than get all triggered by mean words.





MadeInBedlam said:


> So there are mental illnesses which exist purely as 'irrational delusions' (of which Islam is an example), or Islam contains 'symptoms' of other categories (e.g. disorganised thoughts)



Was this supposed to be a question? If so. I don't need to be an expert on mental illness to know that delusions are one.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Corrected for yer ...



Typo not grammar.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Why not try to beat your Glastonbury and Scotland thread-page-records ... ?



Go on go on go on, give it a try Father!


----------



## coley (Mar 24, 2017)

*MadeInBedlam'He bloody well thinks he's staff!'*
New
↑
When I used to ride the Chiltern's line (to which I look back fondly, my god I hate southern rail), the sign read 'Please*, *keep your feet off the seats'.

The comma added humanity, if not an element of passive-aggression, to the request.
Actually saying both iterations aloud makes me rethink that. 

'Please keep your feet off the seats' doesn't sound passive aggressive, but it is passive, in a weary way. 

'Please, keep your feet off the seats'' has more oomph to it. A muscular quality. If a little sharp.

MadeInBedlam, 14 minutes agoReportBookmark
#970Like+ QuoteReply
Wilf likes this.



*littlebabyjesusone of Maxwell's demons*
New
↑
Actually saying both iterations aloud makes me rethink that.

'Please keep your feet off the seats' doesn't sound passive aggressive, but it is passive, in a weary way.

'Please, keep your feet off the seats'' has more oomph to it. A muscular quality. If a little sharp.
It has a weary _Do I really have to say this? _quality to it. 

I approve.

littlebabyjesus, 12 minutes agoReportBookmark
#971Like+ QuoteReply





*Wilf8% Beach Ready*
New
↑
Spot on. It absolutely does both those things.

tbh wilf just comes across as insincere without the comma.
There was a comma *and* I italicised, it was like sincerity central. Oh, sorry, _sincerity central_.

Wilf, 12 minutes agoReportBookmark
#972Like+ QuoteReply
MadeInBedlam likes this.



*xenonWhat door?*
New
↑
Well done, first prize in the geeky weapon pedants award for 2017. Last post on this shit derail, honestly...


I'm just catching up. You're right though, it is bollocks

xenon, 11 minutes agoReportBookmark
#973Like+ QuoteReply
FMSs 
Urban is defiantly alive and well
definitely  was the word I was looking for but, interpretive text did it better
Fuck grammar.


----------



## xenon (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> No, you're coming out with the sort of shite that equates belief systems with mental illness, in a way that somehow manages to insult both the religious and the mentally ill.


 He's giving simpletons a bad name as well. A bit unkind is probably only about 16. Going through that phase of thinking or religious people are mad.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I bet I don't. I believe in very little.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

coley said:
			
		

> interpretive text



Is that from one of those dangerous handheld gadgets then? Call Special Branch!


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> juvenile absolutism is not a good counter argument



It's only absolutism in so much as already exists in the mental health act. I'm simply saying that it should be applied with consisnency. The idea that the number of people holding the same sort of delusion factors in to ideas about how to treat a delusional indivdual is wrong.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> But 'Hans, fuck off' would convey that Bruce had serious, adult stuff to be doing; no time for hans' childish nonsense.


He should also put some shoes on.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Was this supposed to be a question? If so. I don't need to be an expert on mental illness to know that delusions are one.



So give us an example of diagnosable condition (not merely a diagnostic criterion - you know the difference, of course) that pertains only to delusional thoughts


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> So give us an example of diagnosable condition (not merely a diagnostic criterion - you know the difference, of course) that pertains only to delusional thoughts


delusional disorder


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> It's only absolutism in so much as already exists in the mental health act. *I'm simply saying that it should be applied with consisnency.* T.



Consistency, thanks 

TBF I'm impressed by the consistency of your posting over many subjects of late .... well planned!


----------



## xenon (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> It's only absolutism in so much as already exists in the mental health act. I'm simply saying that it should be applied with consisnency. The idea that the number of people holding the same sort of delusion factors in to ideas about how to treat a delusional indivdual is wrong.



 We get it, you're an atheist, well done.  Now grow up.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> *delusional disorder*




Best avoided on here. Someone might expose your deluded impression that you'll get away with this multi-thread tourism for much longer ....


----------



## coley (Mar 24, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Is that from one of those dangerous handheld gadgets then? Call Special Branch!


Bugger off, only on U75 could you end up having a discussion on terrorist events being derailed into a lesson on grammar, comforting actually, in the wider context.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> delusional disorder


Zlatan Ibrahimovic has long thought himself the best footballer in the world, when even at his peak he was no better than 3rd best.  Incarcerate him with the Chief Rabbi and that Sufi bloke called Arnold who lives down our street?


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

coley said:


> Bugger off, only on U75 could you end up having a discussion on terrorist events being *derail* into a lesson on grammar, comforting actually, in the wider context.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Zlatan Ibrahimovic has long thought himself the best footballer in the world, when even at his peak he was no better than 3rd best.  Incarcerate him with the Chief Rabbi and that Sufi bloke called Arnold who lives down our street?



Like I said before there are degrees.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

coley said:


> Bugger off, only on U75 could you end up having a discussion on terrorist events being derailed into a lesson on grammar, comforting actually, in the wider context.


Did the weapons discussion ever get round to the Broomhandled Mauser?  Peter Kaye would have been disappointed.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Like I said before there are degrees.


No, you came out with a ridiculous statement and you are doing a really shit job of defending it.


----------



## coley (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> So give us an example of diagnosable condition (not merely a diagnostic criterion - you know the difference, of course) that pertains only to delusional thoughts



The Elephant in the Room


----------



## coley (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Did the weapons discussion ever get round to the Broomhandled Mauser?  Peter Kaye would have been disappointed.



There's time yet


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> delusional disorder



An obscure diagnosis, which is rarely (even amongst MH SUs) given. 

But like you said, you're no expert


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 24, 2017)

To drag this back on track, there is a discussion to be had here about the motivation of suicide bombers. And in this, Robert Pape's words are relevant, I think:



> What 95 percent of all suicide attacks have in common, since 1980, is not religion, but a specific strategic motivation to respond to a military intervention, often specifically a military occupation, of territory that the terrorists view as their homeland or prize greatly. From Lebanon and the West Bank in the 80s and 90s, to Iraq and Afghanistan, and up through the Paris suicide attacks we’ve just experienced in the last days, military intervention—and specifically when the military intervention is occupying territory—that’s what prompts suicide terrorism more than anything else.



Here’s What a Man Who Studied Every Suicide Attack in the World Says About ISIS’ Motives

If you want to understand the phenomenon, you have to look behind the religious rhetoric, basically. Pape's well worth reading.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Like I said before there are *degrees*.




You think you're up for a First in this Tourist Studies malarkey, but with your lack of revision, you'll soon be on a Third** at best.

**Urban ban


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

Edit : littlebabyjesus : why bother even attempting to get this back on track until this serial troller, and former banned returner, ends up rebanned?

(Not saying your post isn't a good contribution, but you know ... )


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

coley said:


> The Elephant in the Room



You make a good, if perhaps unintended, point about why it's so shit to be 'remotely diagnosing' those is in be public eye.


----------



## coley (Mar 24, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


>


I will readialy admitt to bee clueless in the application of english , oh fuck off im knackered
wTF is that anyway!?


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

Bicycle! (Derailleur gear system ... )


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 24, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> Edit : littlebabyjesus : why bother even attempting to get this back on track until this serial troller, and former banned returner, ends up rebanned?
> 
> (Not saying your post isn't a good contribution, but you know ... )


Plenty of people don't look at things in this way, don't see past the religious justification, not just trolls on here. Plenty of politicians either don't see past it or choose to present themselves as not seeing past it, as that would mean widening the discussion, turning stopping terrorism into something that requires changing the foreign policy of warmongering states like the United Kingdom.

I've been on media blackout today, but I'm willing to bet a goodly amount that not a squeak of this kind of analysis has been mentioned on mainstream media sources.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:
			
		

> (some crap)





Wilf said:


> No, you came out with a ridiculous statement and you are doing a really shit job of defending it.



He's doing a fairly shit job of doing what he really intends here, as well ....


----------



## coley (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> You make a good, if perhaps unintended, point about why it's so shit to be 'remotely diagnosing' those is in be public eye.


Intended, given the public utterances of the person involved, only.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Plenty of people don't look at things in this way, don't see past the religious justification, not just trolls on here. Plenty of politicians either don't see past it or choose to present themselves as not seeing past it, as that would mean widening the discussion, turning stopping terrorism into something that requires changing the foreign policy of warmongering states like the United Kingdom.



I actually agree with you on all of this this, by the way. 

It can only be 'by the way' at the moment though ....


----------



## Smoking kills (Mar 24, 2017)

Idle thoughts?

 The killer is dead, makes 5.

 He was British, with a name to match.

DPAC were on that bridge for hours last year.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 24, 2017)

Interesting that the attacker had a history of non-political criminality (assaults etc) prior to the attack, seems to be a very common factor in jihadist terrorists.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Interesting that the attacker had a history of non-political criminality (assaults etc) prior to the attack, seems to be a very common factor in jihadist terrorists.



Was born Adrian Elms according to the latest BBC report. Looks like he may have been a convert. It also says he was convicted of a knife crime. Knife crime presumably involves jail? Its pretty well known that jail is a jihadist recruiting ground, which is probably a reason for the common factor.

London attack: 'Final' photo of killed PC Keith Palmer emerges - BBC News


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 24, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Interesting that the attacker had a history of non-political criminality (assaults etc) prior to the attack, seems to be a very common factor in jihadist terrorists.



A third of men have a criminal record. It's hardly surprising that someone clearly willing to commit a violent act would have a criminal record.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Its pretty well known that jail is a jihadist recruiting ground, which is probably a reason for the common factor.



Or perhaps it was the four years he spent in Saudi Arabia...


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> Or perhaps it was the four years he spent in Saudi Arabia...



Sounds plausable. Where did you read that?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

London terrorist used to go by the name Adrian and once stabbed a man in the FACE


----------



## J Ed (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> London terrorist used to go by the name Adrian and once stabbed a man in the FACE



Please don't link The Sun


----------



## tim (Mar 24, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Interesting that the attacker had a history of non-political criminality (assaults etc) prior to the attack, seems to be a very common factor in jihadist terrorists.



And middle-aged men with a grudge against society. If he wasn't a Muslim this would  be seen as a case of someone going postal.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Please don't link The Sun



It's not a great paper. But I doubt theyre lying about the saudi arabia thing. Although I've not seen that info on the BBC.


----------



## High Voltage (Mar 24, 2017)

It's a cunts paper. Read by cunts. Written by cunts and printed by scabs


----------



## High Voltage (Mar 24, 2017)

Ooops. Almost forgot. Owned by a cunt


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

High Voltage said:


> It's a cunts paper. Read by cunts. Written by cunts and printed by scabs



I think "read by cunts" is a bit strong.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I think "read by cunts" is a bit strong.



If you buy the Scum, you're a cunt.


----------



## High Voltage (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I think "read by cunts" is a bit strong.



If you've paid money to a cunt to read it then, imho, well, you know how this is going to end


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> If you buy the Scum, you're a cunt.



Personally I like to use google news and get info from various sources on there whilst understanding their varying biases. I can't imagine buying a paper that I know shares my biases unless I was to consider that my views are totally right now so I don't want them challenged with conflicting view points, which isn't the case at all.


----------



## ItWillNeverWork (Mar 24, 2017)

tim said:


> And middle-aged men with a grudge against society. If he wasn't a Muslim this would  be seen as a case of someone going postal.



And if he was a Jainist and we had had years of Jainist-inspired terrorist activity as a backdrop, no doubt this would be seen as a case of Jainist-inspired terrorist activity.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 24, 2017)

ItWillNeverWork said:


> And if he was a Jainist and we had had years of Jainist-inspired terrorist activity as a backdrop, no doubt this would be seen as a case of Jainist-inspired terrorist activity.



Lack of onions would make me very angry


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 24, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> To drag this back on track, there is a discussion to be had here about the motivation of suicide bombers. And in this, Robert Pape's words are relevant, I think:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




So sharp he'll cut himself that one.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 24, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Interesting that the attacker had a history of non-political criminality (assaults etc) prior to the attack, seems to be a very common factor in jihadist terrorists.





tim said:


> And middle-aged men with a grudge against society. If he wasn't a Muslim this would  be seen as a case of someone going postal.




Economic and social reasons really do play a part in this sort of thing. Religion is just the excuse papering over the cracks.


----------



## Mr.Bishie (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Personally I like to use google news and get info from various sources on there whilst understanding their varying biases.



Yet you post links from the Scum, not even knowing if it's factual, which in all probability is 100% horse shit.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Mr.Bishie said:


> Yet you post links from the Scum, not even knowing if it's factual, which in all probability is 100% horse shit.



I was looking for a source for information somebody posted in here.. If the Sun gets hold of the guys CV and prints the information I see no problem with reading it whilst understanding that the source isn't as reliable as the BBC.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I was looking for a source for information somebody posted in here.. If the Sun gets hold of the guys CV and prints the information I see no problem with reading it whilst understanding that the source isn't as reliable as the BBC.


You think people's cvs are unreliable

On what basis?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> You think people's cvs are unreliable
> 
> On what basis?



Well I'm slightly suspicious of his 2:1 economics degree. I think maybe he was lying.

Still nothing about his CV here: London attack: Khalid Masood - what we know about killer - BBC News


----------



## existentialist (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> To a degree thats probably true. But most personality disorders and mental illnesses exist to varying degrees. Religion involves belief in things that simply arent there, which makes it at the more severe end of delusion. Plus it can motivate violent behaviour. But as it is an illness, even in a peaceful form it is a threat to society because the afflicted engage in coordinated attemts to afflict others.


Oh, so you just thought a thread about a recent tragedy would be a good place to ride your pet hobby horse around? Charming...and almost obsessive.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

existentialist said:


> Oh, so you just thought a thread about a recent tragedy would be a good place to ride your pet hobby horse around? Charming...and almost obsessive.



Hobby horse?!?!?1


----------



## existentialist (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Was this supposed to be a question? If so. I don't need to be an expert on mental illness to know that delusions are one.


Haha. The minute someone trots out "I don't need to be an expert in...to...", you just know you're in for some prime uninformed bullshit. You didn't disappoint.


----------



## NoXion (Mar 24, 2017)

That feeling when some armchair psychiatrist doesn't seem to realise that mental illness is culturally mediated.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I think "read by cunts" is a bit strong.


Yes. And utterly deserved.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Hobby horse?!?!?1


Walter mitty


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Well I'm slightly suspicious of his 2:1 economics degree. I think maybe he was lying.
> 
> Still nothing about his CV here: London attack: Khalid Masood - what we know about killer - BBC News


So on the basis of your apparent racism then


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> So on the basis of your apparent racism then



On the basis that if he was a graduate I suspect it would have been widely reported by now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Was this supposed to be a question? If so. I don't need to be an expert on mental illness to know that delusions are one.


Yeh. You're a 'loon and no mistake


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> On the basis that if he was a graduate I suspect it would have been widely reported by now.


On the basis that it is newsworthy when people with skin of his hue graduate. Yeh, you racist cunt


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> On the basis that it is newsworthy when people with skin of his hue graduate. Yeh, you racist cunt



Youre the one with that on your mind mate.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Youre the one with that on your mind mate.


Of course I am. I am shocked attitudes such as yours persist. You by contrast live in denial, you sad Walter mitty wanker


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Of course I am. I am shocked attitudes such as yours persist. You by contrast live in denial, you sad Walter mitty wanker



You're projecting. Im at university with people of all colours. What youre suggesting never crossed my mind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Im at university with people of all colours.


So?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> So?



So. I imagine if any of them went on a murderous rampage I expect it wouldn't take the media long to learn that they were here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> So. I imagine if any of them went on a murderous rampage I expect it wouldn't take the media long to learn that they were here.


Probably not. What's your point, caller?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

How London attacker Khalid Masood snapped because of racism in his village - then went to jail and became radicalised

The telegraph is now reporting the CV info from the sun.

Where do we stand on the telegraph?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Oh and it looks like I was right with my "radicalised in jail" idea.

Dragon as fuck.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> How London attacker Khalid Masood snapped because of racism in his village - then went to jail and became radicalised
> 
> The telegraph is now reporting the CV info from the sun.
> 
> Where do we stand on the telegraph?


Not quite as full-spectrum cuntlike as the Sun, but still cunty in a number of ways.


----------



## stethoscope (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> The telegraph is now reporting the CV info from the sun.
> 
> Where do we stand on the telegraph?



The Sun, Telegraph and BBC are all shit. HTH.

Anyway, I thought this place was North Korea and you were fucking off?


----------



## existentialist (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Oh and it looks like I was right with my "radicalised in jail" idea.
> 
> Dragon as fuck.


You must be very pleased with yourself. 

Well done. Have a hobnob.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> How London attacker Khalid Masood snapped because of racism in his village - then went to jail and became radicalised
> 
> The telegraph is now reporting the CV info from the sun.
> 
> Where do we stand on the telegraph?


So the degree bit being widely reported


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Oh and it looks like I was right with my "radicalised in jail" idea.
> 
> Dragon as fuck.


More dragon the defunct computer company than dragon the mythical flying fire breathers


----------



## existentialist (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Hobby horse?!?!?1


Don't flatter yourself.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> So the degree bit being widely reported



Him writing it on his CV is being widely reported.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Him writing it on his CV is being widely reported.


Yeh. And you're saying he was radicalised in prison when?


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Oh and it looks like I was right with my "radicalised in jail" idea.
> 
> Dragon as fuck.




Well done for working out the obvious.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Oh and it looks like I was right with my "radicalised in jail" idea.
> 
> Dragon as fuck.


Bollocks as fuck. The torygraph says it's possible


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> Well done for working out the obvious.


Yeh? He was radicalised in prison over a decade ago and converts to Islam when?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Was born Adrian Elms according to the latest BBC report. Looks like he may have been a convert. It also says he was convicted of a knife crime. Knife crime presumably involves jail? Its pretty well known that jail is a jihadist recruiting ground, which is probably a reason for the common factor.
> 
> London attack: 'Final' photo of killed PC Keith Palmer emerges - BBC News





bi0boy said:


> Or perhaps it was the four years he spent in Saudi Arabia...





green.tea said:


> Sounds plausable. Where did you read that?



He didnt answer for some reason..


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 24, 2017)

Another economist making bad decisions that affect us all


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh? He was radicalised in prison over a decade ago and converts to Islam when?




Fuck knows and tbh I don't really care, he was a cock womble regardless. Going to the nick will have either radicalised him or sent him further down the rabbit hole of alienation and ultimately choosing to kill people.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> Fuck knows and tbh I don't really care, he was a cock womble regardless. Going to the nick will have either radicalised him or sent him further down the rabbit hole of alienation and ultimately choosing to kill people.


Because that's what happens to everyone who goes to prison of course


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Because that's what happens to everyone who goes to prison of course




Did I say that? 

However prison is frequently a toxic environment liable to lead further down the rabbit hole of feeling like shit. Not to mention the closing of many doors to you when you have been in the nick.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Oh and it looks like I was right with my "radicalised in jail" idea.
> 
> Dragon as fuck.


Dragon? This has been speculated on by nearly all the radio news I have heard in the last 24 hours so it seems more likely to me you are a cat...of the copying kind.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 24, 2017)

Pape’s analysis is consistent with what Lydia Wilson found when she interviewed captured ISIS fighters in Iraq. “They are woefully ignorant about Islam and have difficulty answering questions about Sharia law, militant jihad, and the caliphate,” she recently wrote in _The Nation_. “But a detailed, or even superficial, knowledge of Islam isn’t necessarily relevant to the ideal of fighting for an Islamic State, as we have seen from the Amazon order of _Islam for Dummies_ by one British fighter bound for ISIS.”


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> Did I say that?
> 
> However prison is frequently a toxic environment liable to lead further down the rabbit hole of feeling like shit. Not to mention the closing of many doors to you when you have been in the nick.


If you don't give a shit better to keep quiet than post up some auld bollocks about prison being the formative experience in yer man's adult life.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 24, 2017)

At least this kept that other terrorist's funeral out of the news


----------



## Plumdaff (Mar 24, 2017)

NoXion said:


> That feeling when some armchair psychiatrist doesn't seem to realise that mental illness is culturally mediated.



Or that in order to be detained under the mental health act you not only need to be suffering from a mental illness (and you may or may not experience delusions), it needs to be of a nature and degree that warrants inpatient hospital admission, and you need to pose a risk to your own health and safety, or that of other people. 

Not my Dad popping to Mass on a Sunday then.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 24, 2017)

The state of all this bollux....


----------



## Indeliblelink (Mar 24, 2017)

likesfish said:


> police raided a house in brighton linked to the attacks


So he stayed at a hotel in Brighton before the attack, the local news at the time was full of the terrible story of a woman killed in the village of Battle, on Sunday afternoon, when a car (reports of a drink driver) mounted the pavement and hit her then crashed into a cafe .


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

brogdale said:


> The state of all this bollux....
> 
> View attachment 102825


Pity it wasn't inside


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Plumdaff said:


> Or that in order to be detained under the mental health act you not only need to be suffering from a mental illness (and you may or may not experience delusions), it needs to be of a nature and degree that warrants inpatient hospital admission, and you need to pose a risk to your own health and safety, or that of other people.



_Perceived_.

You need to be _perceived_ be/have those things you mentioned above. Sectioning is a decision made by someone based on either theirs or others perceptions.


----------



## Plumdaff (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> _Perceived_.
> 
> You need to be _perceived_ be/have those things you mentioned above. Sectioning is a decision made by someone based on either theirs or others perceptions.



Hence me agreeing with Noxion that mental illness is culturally mediated.


----------



## cantsin (Mar 24, 2017)

brogdale said:


> The state of all this bollux....
> 
> View attachment 102825



haven't watched / listened to news since yday now, usual grotesque overload circus- was it on here someone pointed out 230 civvies killed by US air attack on Mosul on weds ? Barely a mention anywhere, obvs


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 24, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Interesting that the attacker had a history of non-political criminality (assaults etc) prior to the attack, seems to be a very common factor in jihadist terrorists.



Yes, the recruiting pool for people moronic enough to undertake a suicide 'mission' is always going to be a limited one. 

The petty criminal swamp  - and interestingly middle class boys who've fallen for the gangsta lifestyle/associated loon conspiracy theories - are heavily overrepresented on that basis.


----------



## bimble (Mar 24, 2017)

He stands out mostly by his age this one doesn't he (the suicidal jihadi I mean not green.tea).


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

cantsin said:


> haven't watched / listened to news since yday now, just grotesque  - was it on here someone pointed out 230 civvies killed by US air attack on Mosul on weds ? Barely a mention anywhere


If I was being generous to the broadcasters, I'd say they were just being lazy. They've got correspondents in place who live their lives in and around parliament - flies on shit. They've also got a steady flow of MPs who want to flaunt their bravery under fire. It's no surprise that the dominant tone is one of the 'mother of parliaments under fire'. 

But it's worse than lazy, it's ideological and dishonest. As you say, violent and avoidable death happens everywhere and on a greater scale - every day.  If the broadcasters had any guts or brains they'd reflect that.  And if they _really_ had any guts they'd be talking about Western interventions in the middle east.  None of that reduces the responsibility of the murderous scumbag who did this, but it does put into perspective the shite that's being spewed out about our 'democracy'.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

Anyway, what major announcements can we expect from government in the wake of this attack on 'the mother of parliaments'?  Demands that the world cup be moved from Qatar? Suspension of defence contracts with Saudi Arabia?  Regime change in Bahrain after democracy protests were crushed?


----------



## treelover (Mar 24, 2017)

brogdale said:


> The state of all this bollux....
> 
> View attachment 102825



Hundreds of disabled and sick people have died as a consequence of the Govt's welfare reforms, sanctions, etc, sorry if i doubt your sincerity, Javid.


----------



## bimble (Mar 24, 2017)

All the fascination with analysing the deep psychological reasons is kind of absurd too, as if teenagers who murder each other on a weekly basis in London don't warrant such enquiry they're just doing what they do because gangs.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

bimble said:


> All the fascination with analysing the deep psychological reasons is kind of absurd too, as if teenagers who murder each other on a weekly basis in London don't warrant such enquiry they're just doing what they do because gangs.


The 'why' question is important, how one bloke ended up doing this at this point in his life. But only if you go to where the evidence takes you. When the investigations are done, there'll no doubt be a story of a 'minor criminal', of radicalisation, online videos, particular mosques - all the usual stuff.  But will the narrative find it's way back to Bush and Blair, to oil, to military bases - will it fuck.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

bimble said:


> All the fascination with analysing the deep psychological reasons is kind of absurd too, as if teenagers who murder each other on a weekly basis in London don't warrant such enquiry they're just doing what they do because gangs.


i think you'll find there is a considerable body of research into gangs in this country.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Anyway, what major announcements can we expect from government in the wake of this attack on 'the mother of parliaments'?  Demands that the world cup be moved from Qatar? Suspension of defence contracts with Saudi Arabia?  Regime change in Bahrain after democracy protests were crushed?


more cops
more cops with guns
more cops with guns guarding mps


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

i see the met are retiring yer man's number, 4157U: not seen anywhere pick up on the fact he was from 4TSG


----------



## bimble (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> The 'why' question is important, how one bloke ended up doing this at this point in his life. But only if you go to where the evidence takes you. When the investigations are done, there'll no doubt be a story of a 'minor criminal', of radicalisation, online videos, particular mosques - all the usual stuff.  But will the narrative find it's way back to Bush and Blair, to oil, to military bases - will it fuck.



Yes it is important, but like you say it won't go anywhere real, politically or psychologically.
Had a thought on the tube yesterday, about how the focus on religion as in belief is probably a massive red herring:  What you get when you convert (i think) is an instant feeling of belonging to a real community, people who actually care about you and call you brother and sister and be your friends. The young son of a friend of mine recently converted to islam (born Liverpool living in Sweden) - I spoke to him a while ago and he was all about the amazing sense of belonging and mutual support, practical as well as emotional. His family all freaking out of course.


----------



## 8den (Mar 24, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Pape’s analysis is consistent with what Lydia Wilson found when she interviewed captured ISIS fighters in Iraq. “They are woefully ignorant about Islam and have difficulty answering questions about Sharia law, militant jihad, and the caliphate,” she recently wrote in _The Nation_. “But a detailed, or even superficial, knowledge of Islam isn’t necessarily relevant to the ideal of fighting for an Islamic State, as we have seen from the Amazon order of _Islam for Dummies_ by one British fighter bound for ISIS.”



That's not isolated to Islam. Right now in America and Britain there are supposedly Christian Politicians gutting Health Care, and Social Welfare, which would suggest they've only skimmed the later half of the bible.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 24, 2017)

8den said:


> That's not isolated to Islam. Right now in America and Britain there are supposedly Christian Politicians gutting Health Care, and Social Welfare, which would suggest they've only skimmed the later half of the bible.



"Pick up thy bed and WALK!"


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i see the met are retiring yer man's number, 4157U: not seen anywhere pick up on the fact he was from 4TSG


As in successors to the SPG?  Not sure if he just happened to be the first plod the knifeman encountered or whether he was actually stationed there.  If the latter, slightly odd as I wouldn't have thought it was a normal TSG duty.

Edit: what I'm trying to say is... was he there because they were _expecting_ disorder or terrorism?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> As in successors to the SPG?  Not sure if he just happened to be the first plod the knifeman encountered or whether he was actually stationed there.  If the latter, slightly odd as I wouldn't have thought it was a normal TSG duty.


as in successors to the spg.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

Ah, _former_ tsg. cheers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Ah, _former_ tsg. cheers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)




----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Ah, _former_ tsg. cheers.


tbh his epaulette number would surely have changed when he went from tsg to padp - you wouldn't expect someone from e.g. haringey (yh) to keep the same epaulette number if they went to e.g. barnet (sx).

anyway, some info about the parliamentary and diploprot command Parliamentary and Diplomatic Protection (PaDP)

e2a: surely they'd have SO on their shoulders: Police officers called black people 'monkeys' and 'spades' as they're apparently SO6.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2017)

My god, the stupidity of this headline is surprising even for them:


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> more cops
> more cops with guns
> more cops with guns guarding mps


more jails as well. Plans are afoot to build four massive ones.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> My god, the stupidity of this headline is surprising even for them:
> View attachment 102858


katie hopkins' idea, natch: libel lawyers  round the globe are rubbing their hands with glee


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Phillip Schofield walks over Westminster Bridge in 'defiance'


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2017)

yes because you really need instructions on how to ram a motor into a crowd.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> katie hopkins' idea, natch: libel lawyers  round the globe are rubbing their hands with glee


might as well have put 'books.libraries: the terrorist's friend'


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> yes because you really need instructions on how to ram a motor into a crowd.


exactly, I wonder what search terms they used: 'how to mount a kerb in a 4x4', 'how to stab someone'


----------



## bimble (Mar 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> yes because you really need instructions on how to ram a motor into a crowd.


Driving lessons - the terrorists enemy.


----------



## Plumdaff (Mar 24, 2017)

bimble said:


> Driving lessons - the terrorists enemy.



Across the country "British-born" individuals are being schooled in the arts of terror. 

When will the madness (emergency) stop?


----------



## High Voltage (Mar 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> might as well have put 'books.libraries: the terrorist's friend'



Librarians - the new "Mr Bigs" of terrorism


----------



## gosub (Mar 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> more jails as well. Plans are afoot to build four massive ones.



Given the riots over conditions in the current ones,no bad thing.


----------



## gosub (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 102863
> Phillip Schofield walks over Westminster Bridge in 'defiance'


 Wasn't that crime scene closed to the public?


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2017)

gosub said:


> Wasn't that crime scene closed to the public?


it was open again the next day


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> might as well have put 'books.libraries: the terrorist's friend'


yeh terror stalks the aisles at 303.625


----------



## gosub (Mar 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> it was open again the next day



So he just walked across a bridge then.  like thousands of other people


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

gosub said:


> So he just walked across a bridge then.  like thousands of other people


yeh.

everyday thousands of people travel along the rails where the first murder on a train was committed, daring the long-dead murderer to strike again


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 24, 2017)

High Voltage said:


> Librarians - the new "Mr Bigs" of terrorism


Shhhhh


----------



## not a trot (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 102863
> Phillip Schofield walks over Westminster Bridge in 'defiance'



Surprised he wasn't carrying Gordon the Gopher for dramatic effect.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2017)

High Voltage said:


> Librarians - the new "Mr Bigs" of terrorism


baghdadi was nothing before he got a library card


gosub said:


> So he just walked across a bridge then.  like thousands of other people


yeah but he did it defiantly, with his silver hair shining in the sun


----------



## gosub (Mar 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> baghdadi was nothing before he got a library card
> 
> yeah but he did it defiantly, with his silver hair shining in the sun



Well I for one, welcome Phillip's unity with those not normally chauffeured to work by their company.


----------



## High Voltage (Mar 24, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Shhhhh



Oh very good  Mum's the word


----------



## teqniq (Mar 24, 2017)

cantsin said:


> haven't watched / listened to news since yday now, usual grotesque overload circus- was it on here someone pointed out 230 civvies killed by US air attack on Mosul on weds ? Barely a mention anywhere, obvs


It was originally reported as 137 but the final report on Rudaw has it at 200 though this is including IS fighters, still most of them are thought to be civilians.


----------



## gosub (Mar 24, 2017)

teqniq said:


> It was originally reported as 137 but the final report on Rudaw has it at 200 though this is including IS fighters, still most of them are thought to be civilians.



I 'm not understanding why you would have >100 people in a house.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 102863
> Phillip Schofield walks over Westminster Bridge in 'defiance'


Didn't Gordon the Gopher head off to Iraq to fight ISIS?


----------



## teqniq (Mar 24, 2017)

gosub said:


> I 'm not understanding why you would have >100 people in a house.


Nor I, but to describe the situation there for civilians as desperate is probably an understatement. Human shields perhaps?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> Didn't Gordon the Gopher head off to Iraq to fight ISIS?


yes, but people are worried that he's with some puppet organization


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

'Mr Blobby takes the fight to the Al-Nusra Front'


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

'Keith Lemon says Al Quada are reet shit'


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

''Len Goodman - 'it's no SEVEN from me for Al-Shabaab' "


----------



## kebabking (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> 'Keith Lemon says Al Quada are reet shit'



AQ say Keith Lemon has got a fucking nerve...


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

'Was Thora Hird taken out by Boko Haram?'


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2017)

Roy Walker, a martyr for al-shabaab


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Mar 24, 2017)

And now James Corden addresses the nation.

James Corden pays tribute to London after terror attack | Daily Mail Online


----------



## Captain Christy (Mar 24, 2017)

High Voltage said:


> Librarians - the new "Mr Bigs" of terrorism


Surely someone must have seen the increase in library membership by these "foreign types"
Was Miss Clarke in Classical literature too engrossed in the goings on of Mr. Darcy to notice suspicious behaviour?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

ElizabethofYork said:


> And now James Corden addresses the nation.
> 
> James Corden pays tribute to London after terror attack | Daily Mail Online


i'd rather listen to the dead attacker.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

'Was Roy 'Chubby' Brown radicalised in Hartlepool?'


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

ElizabethofYork said:


> And now James Corden addresses the nation.
> 
> James Corden pays tribute to London after terror attack | Daily Mail Online


  fucking hell, what's next, 'The Saturdays lead the nation's tributes at Westminster Abbey'?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2017)

Wilf said:


> fucking hell, what's next, 'The Saturdays lead the nation's tributes at Westminster Abbey'?


at this point we can expect a gorgeous, high quality franklin mint plate depicting the tragedy, yours for twenty installments of 400 quid


----------



## A380 (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> yes, but people are worried that he's with some puppet organization


Jesus fucking Christ.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> at this point we can expect a gorgeous, high quality franklin mint plate depicting the tragedy, yours for twenty installments of 400 quid


Expect to see murals of the Tory 'Hero' MP painted on gable ends in Westminster. The red in the union jack picking out the blood on his furrowed brow.

Too soon?


----------



## bimble (Mar 24, 2017)

Really weird one this Adrian. This says he was having a laugh with people working at the hotel where he stayed the night before. 
Westminster attack: picture emerges of terrorist's final hours


----------



## teqniq (Mar 24, 2017)

Racist arseholes in racist arseholes shokka



> The photographer who captured an image of a woman in a hijab walking past terror attack victims on Westminster Bridge has defended her actions as “completely appropriate” and said the image had been wildly “misappropriated”.
> 
> The woman has been viciously attacked online, with far-right supporters and anti-Islam websites using it as “evidence” of her indifference to the scene...



This woman in a hijab was pictured walking past terror victims and became a meme. Now the photographer has spoken out


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Paul Watson is such fucking vermin


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Paul Watson is such fucking vermin
> 
> View attachment 102872


The other point that the scum who have been haranguing her need to remember is that, at the time of the event/photo, there was no knowing that the attacker had any kind of link to Islam (radicalised or other)


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Paul Watson is such fucking vermin
> 
> View attachment 102872



He should get Tim Poo to interview her.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Paul Watson is such fucking vermin
> 
> View attachment 102872




I saw that about 4pm on the day? Talk about getting in with the hate quick. 


Fucking arseholes, the thing is she clearly looks a bit upset and its not as if most of the people on the bridge could *do* anything anyway other than walk around in numb horror.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> He should get Tim Poo to interview her.


how can he, with London being a no-go area now, surrounded by sharia law and that


----------



## bimble (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Paul Watson is such fucking vermin
> 
> View attachment 102872


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 24, 2017)

I, too, could literally have been outside of the Houses of Parliament on another day. In fact I have been many times and likely will be again. Truly we are all victims here.


----------



## Athos (Mar 24, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> I saw that about 4pm on the day? Talk about getting in with the hate quick.
> 
> 
> Fucking arseholes, the thing is she clearly looks a bit upset and its not as if most of the people on the bridge could *do* anything anyway other than walk around in numb horror.



Even if she'd have been pissing on the dead, what would that have shown?  She's one person; nothing can sensibly be deduced about muslims from her conduct (which is the implication).


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2017)

saw that cube-headed twat tommy robinson in the vinegars straight after the attack, that was getting it in quick. One might almost suspect he has a brain full of such rants, modified to suit the occaison


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Stephen is also a fan of gobbing off without worrying if he's talking shit or not.

(Point being his premise and therefore assertion are wrong)


----------



## 8den (Mar 24, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I, too, could literally have been outside of the Houses of Parliament on another day. In fact I have been many times and likely will be again. Truly we are all victims here.



I was literally 2 miles from where Mount Vesuvius erupted. Had I been there about 1,938 years ago, very different story.


----------



## killer b (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> View attachment 102876 Stephen is also a fan of gobbing off without worrying if he's talking shit or not.
> 
> (Point being his premise and therefore assertion are wrong)


They don't care that it's wrong. The reason they post all this shit before any details are known is to seize control of the news agenda - that they're subsequently proved to be innacurate doesn't matter.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

killer b said:


> They don't care that it's wrong. The reason they post all this shit before any details are known is to seize control of the news agenda - that they're subsequently proved to be innacurate doesn't matter.



Stephen is that bright?


----------



## killer b (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Stephen is that bright?


Of course. He isn't thick at all.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> yes because you really need instructions on how to ram a motor into a crowd.



I wouldn't banalize it. Apparently the manual in question had reached 50,000 downloads in Britain before this attack and now, because of the daily mail, even more people will be searchhing for it and making monitoring extremely difficult.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> I wouldn't banalize it. Apparently the manual in question had reached 50,000 downloads in Britain before this attack and now, because of the daily mail, even more people will be searching for it and making monitoring extremely difficult.



You've always been able to use the internet to find how-to's for basic explosives, improvised weapons. Its nothing new. Remember the anarchist/jolly roger cookbook? I'd presume a lot of it was bollocks but I haven't read a copy n years.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 24, 2017)

So, what is to be done to prevent future attacks?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> You've always been able to use the internet to find how-to's for basic explosives, improvised weapons. Its nothing new. Remember the anarchist/jolly roger cookbook? I'd presume a lot of it was bollocks but I haven't read a copy n years.


The Wrong Hands


----------



## Athos (Mar 24, 2017)

killer b said:


> They don't care that it's wrong. The reason they post all this shit before any details are known is to seize control of the news agenda - that they're subsequently proved to be innacurate doesn't matter.



By 'they', do you mean Robinson and his ilk, or The Independent and its?


----------



## killer b (Mar 24, 2017)

Athos said:


> By they, do you mean Robinson and his ilk, or The Independent and its?


Robinson. The indie doesn't care either, but that's mainly just cause they want the clicks.


----------



## Athos (Mar 24, 2017)

killer b said:


> Robinson. The indie doesn't care either, but that's mainly just cause they want the clicks.



I'd say it's a bit of both. The media thrive on these folk devils.


----------



## killer b (Mar 24, 2017)

Because of the clicks.


----------



## Athos (Mar 24, 2017)

This whole narrative suits the state, the media, racists, and ISIS types. But is harmful to the vast majority of us.


----------



## Athos (Mar 24, 2017)

killer b said:


> Because of the clicks.



Because of the distraction.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

killer b said:


> Because of the clicks.


kicking against the clicks


----------



## Wilf (Mar 24, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> So, what is to be done to prevent future attacks?


The brutal answer is probably 'nothing' (or at least nothing _different_).  Politics aside, the British state has probably done rather well in combatting attacks since 2005.  And if this bloke turns out to have been 'self radicalised', to get into their terminology, there's not a great deal that can be done about that.  I suspect the security services really want to concentrate on keeping an eye on 'returning fighters' who went out to Syria over the last 5 years or so.


----------



## hot air baboon (Mar 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> Remember the anarchist/jolly roger cookbook? I'd presume a lot of it was bollocks but I haven't read a copy n years.



sure I read somewhere the spooks deliberately put out fake versions so neophyte bombmaker suddenly found themselves _sans_ fingers in the middle of the process


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

hot air baboon said:


> sure I read somewhere the spooks deliberately put out fake versions so neophyte bombmaker suddenly found themselves _sans_ fingers in the middle of the process


yeh. and you believed it.


----------



## existentialist (Mar 24, 2017)

gosub said:


> So he just walked across a bridge then.  like thousands of other people


Ah yes, but he Did It Defiantly.

I imagine Philip Schofield Being Defiant is a rare enough sight to be a curiosity.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 24, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> So, what is to be done to prevent future attacks?




Send this man in


----------



## gosub (Mar 24, 2017)

existentialist said:


> Ah yes, but he Did It Defiantly.
> 
> I imagine Philip Schofield Being Defiant is a rare enough sight to be a curiosity.



What he could of done is : lent this fella some clothes and shoes


eta sorry my mistake, he lent him a shirt.


----------



## 8den (Mar 24, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> I wouldn't banalize it. Apparently the manual in question had reached 50,000 downloads in Britain before this attack and now, because of the daily mail, even more people will be searchhing for it and making monitoring extremely difficult.



BAN GRAND THEFT AUTO, JIHADISTS ARE USING IT AS MURDER SIMULATORS.


Eat a bag of dicks you fucking prick.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 24, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> I wouldn't banalize it. Apparently the manual in question had reached 50,000 downloads in Britain before this attack and now, because of the daily mail, even more people will be searchhing for it and making monitoring extremely difficult.



Ban this sick google filth now!


----------



## gosub (Mar 24, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> I wouldn't banalize it. Apparently the manual in question had reached 50,000 downloads in Britain before this attack and now, because of the daily mail, even more people will be searchhing for it and making monitoring extremely difficult.



But whats to teach, - Always take the extended insurance when hiring the vehicle?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 24, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Ban this sick google filth now!


Does anyone know how I can find this ‘google’ thing on the interweb?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Send this man in


A real latter-day tintin


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Send this man in


who's he?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> who's he?




It's tim poo, like you didn't know


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 24, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> who's he?



Long true story

Tim Pool. Investigative journalism in Sweden after Trump allegations on immigration problems


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 24, 2017)

I've seen more of BBC 130 channel today than I'd like, 24 hour news does it's level best to make terrorism *really boring*


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> It's tim poo, like you didn't know


never heard of him


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Long true story
> 
> Tim Pool. Investigative journalism in Sweden after Trump allegations on immigration problems


thanks


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 24, 2017)

Blimey, I had wondered why people were being so hostile to Anudder Oik upthread. Now I know. Ugh.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> The Wrong Hands


I've got an ecopy of Towards A Citizen Militia on my old mac , does it get a mention in the above tome?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I've got an ecopy of Towards A Citizen Militia on my old mac , does it get a mention in the above tome?


Can't find such


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 24, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> I've got an ecopy of Towards A Citizen Militia on my old mac , does it get a mention in the above tome?


It's all right if it's on a mac; it just means it's "research material".


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

green.tea said:


> How London attacker Khalid Masood snapped because of racism in his village - then went to jail and became radicalised
> 
> The telegraph is now reporting the CV info from the sun.
> 
> Where do we stand on the telegraph?



It also says: 



> More than a dozen officers *armed with machine guns* stormed the premises,


----------



## kebabking (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It also says:..



Torygraphs defence journalism went down the tubes 20+ years ago - in the last parliament they failed to understand the difference between a nuclear warhead and a nuclear reactor. I wouldn't expect them to know the difference between a pistol and Mons Meg..


----------



## likesfish (Mar 24, 2017)

Tbf you dont need to put out a fake copy of the cook book making your own explosives is highly hazadous to health even if you  apprantly know what your doing plenty of provos got blown up by their own bombs.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

bimble said:


> View attachment 102875



So Elephant and Castle then.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 24, 2017)

likesfish said:


> Tbf you dont need to put out a fake copy of the cook book making your own explosives is highly hazadous to health even if you  apprantly know what your doing plenty of provos got blown up by their own bombs.


They did get the hang of it in the end, though.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 24, 2017)

Thomas begley would probably argue that point


----------



## teqniq (Mar 24, 2017)




----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 24, 2017)

teqniq said:


>


I've seen that pic tweeted a lot with a caption like "when this happened we didn't say all the Irish were responsible, we knew it was just a few cunts".

Well that's not strictly true is it? Or at all true.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 24, 2017)

teqniq said:


>



I see the Leeds urban renewal program has come on in leaps and bounds.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 24, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I've seen that pic tweeted a lot with a caption like "when this happened we didn't say all the Irish were responsible, we knew it was just a few cunts".
> 
> Well that's not strictly true is it? Or at all true.


I dunno. For my part not a big fan of bombings full stop and the main reason I posted it was by way of response to the two preceding posts. but no I certainly wouldn't tar everybody with the same brush as the result of the actions of a few.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 24, 2017)

teqniq said:


> I dunno. For my part not a big fan of bombings full stop and the main reason I posted it was by way of response to the two preceding posts. but no I certainly wouldn't tar everybody with the same brush as the result of the actions of a few.


I mean that there was massive prejudice against the Irish when there were IRA bombs.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 24, 2017)

Yes I suppose there was, as there is now in some quarters regarding muslims.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

Plus the IRA would give warnings. Jihadi cunts tend not to.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Plus the IRA would give warnings. Jihadi cunts tend not to.


I don't see the relevance of this at all.


----------



## phillm (Mar 24, 2017)

teqniq said:


>


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 24, 2017)

The IRA got wise to the fact that causing economic damage would get more leverage than shooting the occasional squaddie. The Jihadis haven't figured that one out yet.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Plus the IRA would give warnings. Jihadi cunts tend not to.



Made all the difference to the people whom died obviously.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Made all the difference to the people whom died obviously.



I'd imagine it reduced fatalities. Anyway, it's irrelevant to this thread; or as irrelevant as posting the meme was.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I don't see the relevance of this at all.



I don't see the relevance of the meme either.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I'd imagine it reduced fatalities. Anyway, it's irrelevant to this thread; or as irrelevant as posting the meme was.



You imagine but have no idea...so just willfully hoping that coded messages actually saved anyone's lives in an attempt to what? Justify/Build a hierarchy of good and bad 'terrorists'? Odd.


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It also says:










> In the photograph, Masood is sixth from the left in the back row. His arms are folded and *he gives no clue as to the murderous path he would tak*e



What the fuck was he supposed to do? Wave a machete around? Dreadful journalism.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

OMFG... I feel a bit stabby even reading that crap...What does that mean? Born to kill...in our fucking DNA or what? 

Only Black boy in class. Bet that was fun.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

editor said:


> What the fuck was he supposed to do? Wave a machete around? Dreadful journalism.



Sorry, that was in response to the earlier derail about whether the U.K. police carry machine guns or not.

Edit: oh I see you were just quoting the same article; ignore lol.


----------



## Athos (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> You imagine but have no idea...so just willfully hoping that coded messages actually saved anyone's lives in an attempt to what? Justify/Build a hierarchy of good and bad 'terrorists'? Odd.



Of course some people designated as terrorists are better than others. Compare Brevik with Mandela, for instance. 

And it's undeniable that IRA code words saved lives.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Mar 24, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> The IRA got wise to the fact that causing economic damage would get more leverage than shooting the occasional squaddie. The Jihadis haven't figured that one out yet.


They kept shooting squadies till the end. One of the main differences was the scale of the groups. The provos were embedded into a community so could pick from among the best to act as intelligence and for bomb making. They had a structure and organisation to plan political objectives and how to use their willingness to violence to achieve those goals. 

McVeigh showed that a talented and motivated clique of individuals could achieve some of that but it was very fragile and collapsed with one or two arrests. It is my opinion (your mileage may vary) the violent jihadis are very weakly embedded into their communities, they have to be very surreptitious about plans and recruitment, they are very disjointed here in the UK. They cannot cultivate individuals with the skills of field craft, intelligence gathering and bomb making let alone build an infrastructure to support political goal setting and planning how to execute atrocities to achieve such goals. 

They do not have the network of thinkers and doers to pull together a coherent campaign. It looks to me like individuals who are inspired by other acts of atrocity violence in Europe seeking a rationalisation to justify the "glory" of "jihad" by atrocity violence. The result is theologically and politically nihilistic, it is individuals emotionally and mentally disconnected enough from society to imagine a glorious suicide as an end in itself occasionally whipping themselves into enough of a fervour to "do something". 

tl;dnr, lonely wack jobs not a community engaged in a struggle.


----------



## Poot (Mar 24, 2017)

editor said:


> In the photograph, Masood is sixth from the left in the back row. His arms are folded and he gives no clue as to the murderous path he would take
> 
> What the fuck was he supposed to do? Wave a machete around? Dreadful journalism.



In my head, Philomena Cunk is saying those words while staring gormlessly into space.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> You imagine but have no idea...so just willfully hoping that coded messages actually saved anyone's lives in an attempt to what? Justify/Build a hierarchy of good and bad 'terrorists'? Odd.



So you just lump them all in the same pot? That's odd.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So you just lump them all in the same pot? That's odd.



No...there is no fucking pot is the point. Nor is there a hierarchy. There is context and stupid comparisons like yours are well, stupid.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> No...there is no fucking pot is the point. Nor is there a hierarchy. There is context and stupid comparisons like yours are well, stupid.



In what way was it stupid?


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 24, 2017)

High Voltage said:


> Librarians - the new "Mr Bigs" of terrorism



Well, have you ever returned a book late?! All that power...


----------



## phillm (Mar 24, 2017)

ferrelhadley said:


> They kept shooting squadies till the end. One of the main differences was the scale of the groups. The provos were embedded into a community so could pick from among the best to act as intelligence and for bomb making. They had a structure and organisation to plan political objectives and how to use their willingness to violence to achieve those goals.
> 
> McVeigh showed that a talented and motivated clique of individuals could achieve some of that but it was very fragile and collapsed with one or two arrests. It is my opinion (your mileage may vary) the violent jihadis are very weakly embedded into their communities, they have to be very surreptitious about plans and recruitment, they are very disjointed here in the UK. They cannot cultivate individuals with the skills of field craft, intelligence gathering and bomb making let alone build an infrastructure to support political goal setting and planning how to execute atrocities to achieve such goals.
> 
> ...



beautifully satirised by Chris Morris in Four Lions.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> You imagine but have no idea...so just willfully hoping that coded messages actually saved anyone's lives in an attempt to what? Justify/Build a hierarchy of good and bad 'terrorists'? Odd.



No, arguably maintain the point of an action being political as opposed to being an act of simple murder. The key point being the interpretation and implementation of the words 'terrorism' and 'terrorist'.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> In what way was it stupid?



A warning didn't save those that died. Therefore your hierarchy building doesn't work unless you are saying that some 'innocent' people deserved to die or their murders are more palatable/understandable because x, y, z.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> A warning didn't save those that died. Therefore your hierarchy building doesn't work unless you are saying that some 'innocent' people deserved to die more because x, y, z.



No, certainly not. I don't think it is/was about a hierarchy, more a distinction of the operational intention. If there is a war then, within such a logic, there are 'acceptable' casualties, and it can then be a space fr argumentation in respect of blame etc.

Please don't think I'm looking to justify - perhaps understand or explain.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> A warning didn't save those that died. Therefore your hierarchy building doesn't work unless you are saying that some 'innocent' people deserved to die more because x, y, z.



But this is a straw man as I made no such claim. The warnings were given to reduce civilian casualties. Unless you have a different theory as to why they were given?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> No, certainly not. I don't think it is/was about a hierarchy, more a distinction of the operational intention. If there is a war then, within such a logic, there are 'acceptable' casualties, and it can then be a space fr argumentation in respect of blame etc.
> 
> Please don't think I'm looking to justify - perhaps understand or explain.


Pointy head wank, "a distinction of the operational intention" blah blah. Never heard such vacuous tosh in all my born days.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But this is a straw man as I made no such claim. The warnings were given to reduce civilian casualties. Unless you have a different theory as to why they were given?



Not a straw man because the warnings didn't save the lives of those who died. One life is enough is it not?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

Anyway...that's my point and I am not in any way legitimising anyone's political or religious beliefs that lead them to kill. I just fucking abhor even the sniff of double standards...I smell that shit a mile off.


Which also presents a existential/theoretical dilemma for me...come the 'revolution' when _urban_ routinely will use the idea of putting others up against the wall for x, y or z reason... who will be pulling the 'trigger'? I have certainly met or come across a few that left me imagining I could/would.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Not a straw man because the warnings didn't save the lives of those who died. One life is enough is it not?



Well yes, but War tends to kill people. Avoiding civilians as best as possible isn't really comparable to deliberately mowing tourists down.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well yes, but War tends to kill people. Avoiding civilians as best as possible isn't really comparable to deliberately mowing tourists down.



*War*....you'll need to define that in a way the encapsulates 'everyones' definition and methods of fighting one I think.


----------



## Athos (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> *War*....you'll need to define that in a way the encapsulates 'everyones' definition and methods of fighting one I think.



What definition do you prefer? Why? And whose interests does it serve?


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Pointy head wank, "a distinction of the operational intention" blah blah. Never heard such vacuous tosh in all my born days.



I thought you worked with uni students?


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> I thought you worked with uni students?



Yeah my reading/gut grip of that poster is student too.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> *War*....you'll need to define that in a way the encapsulates 'everyones' definition and methods of fighting one I think.



What's a civil war?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> I thought you worked with uni students?


And?


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Yeah my reading/gut grip of that poster is student too.



Making a different point/joke. But fair enough


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Yeah my reading/gut grip of that poster is student too.


Mine is pretentious pointy head race baiting wanker


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> And?



Undergrads talk a lot of wank. Although BeattieP does strive for the wankiest of wank


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Mine is pretentious pointy head race baiting wanker


Enjoy your privilege!


----------



## Athos (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> A warning didn't save those that died. Therefore your hierarchy building doesn't work unless you are saying that some 'innocent' people deserved to die or their murders are more palatable/understandable because x, y, z.



Of course the deaths of some innocent people are more palatable than others. For instance, it would be more palatable to kill an innocent to save the lives of more innocents than it would be to kill an innocent for fun.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Undergrads talk a lot of wank. Although BeattieP does strive for the wankiest of wank


I try to follow w.c. fields' advice, never work with children or animals


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Not a straw man because the warnings didn't save the lives of those who died. One life is enough is it not?


What utter crap. The warnings saved some lives. 

EDIT: Your idiotic position makes the actions of Red Brigades the same as the 7/7 bombers.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What's a civil war?



Did you answer my question?

...and if your answer is there is a difference in terms of and terminology, characterisation and expectation of a _civil war,_ please expand on that point.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I try to follow w.c. fields' advice, never work with children or animals


 Crap advice. I work in early years. Very rewarding.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> What utter crap. The warnings saved some lives.



Point is they didn't save the lives of those who died. Which is what I wrote.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Pointy head wank, "a distinction of the operational intention" blah blah. Never heard such vacuous tosh in all my born days.



C-

Stick to issuing books.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Crap advice. I work in early years. Very rewarding.


I'm glad there're people like you who do the work people like me wouldn't like


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I'm glad there're people like you who do the work people like me wouldn't like



Play with children?


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Play with children?



Fuck off


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> EDIT: Your idiotic position makes the actions of Red Brigades the same as the 7/7 bombers.



Great edit. Yep, that's me.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> C-
> 
> Stick to issuing books.


try reading one or two, it would be a pleasant change to see you offer an informed opinion.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Point is they didn't save the lives of those who died. Which is what I wrote.


And which is an utterly incoherent position unless you're going to argue for complete pacifism. 

There will always be the _possibility_ of civilian deaths when using violence (either by governments or non-government groups). To argue that there is an equivalence between those that seek to maximise those deaths and those that seek to reduce/minimise them is just crap.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> try reading one or two, it would be a pleasant change to see you offer an informed opinion.



Right. You issue the books. I'll write them.


----------



## redsquirrel (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Great edit. Yep, that's me.


It's the logical conclusion of your position. If you can't see that don't blame me.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Right. You issue the books. I'll write them.



Some writing needs to be read. Some just needs to be written.


----------



## Athos (Mar 24, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> And which is an utterly incoherent position unless you're going to argue for complete pacifism.
> 
> There will always be the _possibility_ of civilian deaths when using violence (either by governments or non-government groups). To argue that there is an equivalence between those that seek to maximise those deaths and those that seek to reduce/minimise them is just crap.



And that's not even taking into account aims. It's like saying that there's a moral equivalence between the ANC planting bombs in apartheid South Africa and Timothy McVeigh.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Right. You issue the books. I'll write them.


Judging by your posts any attempt you make at extended writing will just be a longer streak of turgid shit dressed up to in fancy words to cover its absence of substance.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Athos said:


> And that's not even taking into account aims. It's like saying that there's a moral equivalence between the ANC planting bombs in apartheid South Africa and Timothy McVeigh.


Or the angry brigade and the bologna bombers


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

redsquirrel said:


> And which is an utterly incoherent position unless you're going to argue for complete pacifism.
> 
> There will always be the _possibility_ of civilian deaths when using violence (either by governments or non-government groups). To argue that there is an equivalence between those that seek to maximise those deaths and those that seek to reduce/minimise them is just crap.



Hmmm... maximise and minimise argument being used given some of the IRA targets? 

Also, you clearly haven't read or have chosen to skim my posts because if you hadn't you;d have read this....



> Which also presents a existential/theoretical dilemma for me...come the 'revolution' when _urban_ routinely will use the idea of putting others up against the wall for x, y or z reason... who will be pulling the 'trigger'? I have certainly met or come across a few that left me imagining I could/would.



Who gets to decide who is innocent is my point? I wonder if and where our boundaries differ.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Judging by your posts any attempt you make at extended writing will just be a longer streak of turgid shit dressed up to in fancy words to hide it's absence of substance.



With such an opinion you simply reinforce and make clear your suitability to issue books. This is likely to remain your fundamental relationship to books. A window licker - nothing more.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Hmmm... maximise and minimise argument being used given some of the IRA targets?
> 
> Also, you clearly haven't read or have chosen to skim my posts because if you hadn't you;d have read this....
> 
> ...



In the context of war it's non combatants.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> With such an opinion you simply reinforce and make clear your suitability to issue books. This is likely to remain your fundamental relationship to books. A window licker - nothing more.


Yeh. But it's not my relationship to books, it's only what you think my relationship to books is. You couldn't cut it as a window licker or even a boot licker


----------



## Athos (Mar 24, 2017)

Rutita1 said:


> Hmmm... maximise and minimise argument being used given some of the IRA targets?
> 
> Also, you clearly haven't read or have chosen to skim my posts because if you hadn't you;d have read this....
> 
> ...



We all decide. But we have to make a decision. To pretend that all killings are equally bad is nonsense.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Mar 24, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> In the context of war it's non combatants.



Enniskillen? For example? I'm using this example given you did the nonsense thing of comparing to the IRA.

How are we even having this conversation?

ETA:
I don't think it's useful to compare the people killed in this way, it feels like we are moving towards terms like 'collateral damage'. Writing some killings of non-combatants off as justified or expected.

For me the focus needs to be on the reason behind these attacks and as such yes, compare away as to whether or not this one or that one has a legitimate gripe or is engaged in 'war'. 

What isn't on IMO is to create a hierarchy of which group/individual was/is somehow _better_ by inferring it is better to have been killed by X group. That's nonsense.

I'm not interested in continuing this conversation further either. I am happy to disagree. Sorry to everyone else for the derail.


----------



## Beats & Pieces (Mar 24, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. But it's not my relationship to books, it's only what you think my relationship to books is. You couldn't cut it as a window licker or even a boot licker



Let me guess. Your other book relationship involves tissues?


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 24, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Let me guess. Your other book relationship involves tissues?



Go away you tedious wanker


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 24, 2017)

Beats & Pieces said:


> Let me guess. Your other book relationship involves tissues?


You can even keep a thought going for two posts without getting confused.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 24, 2017)

"window licker" is definitely not acceptable.

I'm also locking this thread for a bit as it's degenerated into just insult-slinging. It will be unlocked at some point in the future.


----------



## Lazy Llama (Mar 25, 2017)

Unlocking. 


> endless personal attacks and needlessly disruptive conduct is not permitted and posters who continue such behaviour after being asked to stop will be banned.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 25, 2017)

editor said:


> What the fuck was he supposed to do? Wave a machete around? Dreadful journalism.



Sadness in his eyes.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 25, 2017)

The ira had a goal and leadership.

Assorted sucide attackers have no leadership and goals are a bit vauge outside killing infidels


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 25, 2017)

8den said:


> Complete shit and utter moron his colleague bragged on social media that they were brought over to Ireland to film a piece for the rebel. And he has ties to Tommy Robinson.
> 
> Apparently they didn't cop on that letting us tie both the American Fundamentalist Anti Abortion lobby to the British Far right, and youth defence, might not be a combination that would go down well in Ireland.
> 
> Anway wayyy too much of a tangent.


Clongowes or Belvedere?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

likesfish said:


> The ira had a goal and leadership.
> 
> Assorted sucide attackers have no leadership and goals are a bit vauge outside killing infidels


Tbh if you run round topping yourselves you're unlikely to hone your skills


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 25, 2017)

likesfish said:


> The ira had a goal and leadership.
> 
> Assorted sucide attackers have no leadership and goals are a bit vauge outside killing infidels


I see a very definite connection. Foreign occupiers. Land to be liberated. A war of terror to be taken to the lands of the occupiers, not kept isolated within the occupied territories themselves, although plenty of it there, most of it there. 

To understand the existence, and attraction, of ISIS, one has to look at the sorry sequence of events since the invasion of Iraq.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 25, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I see a very definite connection. Foreign occupiers. Land to be liberated. A war of terror to be taken to the lands of the occupiers, not kept isolated within the occupied territories themselves, although plenty of it there, most of it there.
> 
> To understand the existence, and attraction, of ISIS, one has to look at the sorry sequence of events since the invasion of Iraq.


Yeh. If you ignore centuries of Irish rebellions and Irish constitutionalism

If you ignore the land war, the economic war, the tan war and so on

If you ignore the political and historical context, yeh there's a very definite connection


----------



## agricola (Mar 26, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I see a very definite connection. Foreign occupiers. Land to be liberated. A war of terror to be taken to the lands of the occupiers, not kept isolated within the occupied territories themselves, although plenty of it there, most of it there.
> 
> To understand the existence, and attraction, of ISIS, one has to look at the sorry sequence of events since the invasion of Iraq.



I am not sure how true that is, though whether IS would have come about without the invasion and corralling of them all in the US-led prison system is another matter.   Takfiri groups are invariably forces of reaction, not of revolution or liberation.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Mar 26, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> To understand the existence, and attraction, of ISIS, one has to look at the sorry sequence of events since the invasion of Iraq.


Germany opposed the Iraq invasion yet faced the Breitscheidplatz attack. France has faced the most terror attacks of a western European country yet also refused to get involved in Iraq. These attacks are not picking the best locations to hit out at those who are attacking "Muslim" countries, i.e. US bases. They are not launching attacks at the decision making infrastructure of western liberal democracy. They have attacked rock concerts, Jewish shops, cartoonists and randoms on the streets.

This is not a coherent campaign but one that strikes at the easiest targets (physically) then pins on rationalisations. This is atrocity spectacle  for the sake of atrocity spectacle, not political goals.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 26, 2017)

agricola said:


> I am not sure how true that is, though whether IS would have come about without the invasion and corralling of them all in the US-led prison system is another matter.   Takfiri groups are invariably forces of reaction, not of revolution or liberation.


The ideas gain traction in the presence of a foreign occupying force. As the roots of Al-qaeda come from the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan. Foreign occupation, or the perception of it, is a common thread to groups that produce many extreme forms of terrorism. Nationalism of whatever kind, and I would see IS as a form of nationalism, plus powerlessness produces the required desperation.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 26, 2017)

ferrelhadley said:


> Germany opposed the Iraq invasion yet faced the Breitscheidplatz attack. France has faced the most terror attacks of a western European country yet also refused to get involved in Iraq. These attacks are not picking the best locations to hit out at those who are attacking "Muslim" countries, i.e. US bases. They are not launching attacks at the decision making infrastructure of western liberal democracy. They have attacked rock concerts, Jewish shops, cartoonists and randoms on the streets.
> 
> This is not a coherent campaign but one that strikes at the easiest targets (physically) then pins on rationalisations. This is atrocity spectacle  for the sake of atrocity spectacle, not political goals.


Yep. The desperation produced in the aftermath of the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan has created a wide-ranging, unfocused response. That doesn't mean the conditions in which this desperation was produced are not directly traceable back to those invasions and events surrounding them.

I don't agree, however, that IS has no political goal in its sponsorship of terrorism. I think it very clearly does have one.


----------



## SqueakyBumTime (Mar 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. If you ignore centuries of Irish rebellions and Irish constitutionalism
> 
> If you ignore the land war, the economic war, the tan war and so on
> 
> If you ignore the political and historical context, yeh there's a very definite connection



You talk big, but I reckon you're all talk. 

When I say all talk, I mean uncommonly rude.


----------



## mojo pixy (Mar 26, 2017)

Psssst ... it's a internests forum. _It's all talk_


----------



## ferrelhadley (Mar 26, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yep. The desperation produced in the aftermath of the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan has created#


Has it.

Someone drove a truck into a group of German Christmas shoppers because of Iraq. Your evidence is well, you want it to be true.
These atrocities are fulfilling your desire for karma to be visited upon the invaders of Iraq. All the evidence of motivation you need. Even if the Germans had little to do with it.
So why have these heroes not been attacking the US or US armed forces personnel?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Mar 26, 2017)

ferrelhadley said:


> Has it.
> 
> Someone drove a truck into a group of German Christmas shoppers because of Iraq. Your evidence is well, you want it to be true.
> These atrocities are fulfilling your desire for karma to be visited upon the invaders of Iraq. All the evidence of motivation you need. Even if the Germans had little to do with it.
> So why have these heroes not been attacking the US or US armed forces personnel?


The conditions that have allowed extremist groups such as IS to develop and cohere have roots in the invasion of Iraq and the devastation, resentment and political and civil chaos it created. The conditions for desperation and extremism.

Nothing to do with 'my desire for karma'. And if you think I'm cheering any of this, you've entirely misread me.


----------



## ferrelhadley (Mar 26, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The conditions that have allowed extremist groups such as IS to develop and cohere have roots in the invasion of Iraq


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

littlebabyjesus said:


> The conditions that have allowed extremist groups such as IS to develop and cohere have roots in the invasion of Iraq and the devastation, resentment and political and civil chaos it created. The conditions for desperation and extremism.
> 
> Nothing to do with 'my desire for karma'. And if you think I'm cheering any of this, you've entirely misread me.


So they only go back to 2003. Even for an effete and ineffectual liberal that's very poor. At least back as far as 1945, probably auld sykes-picot


----------



## J Ed (Mar 26, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> The IRA got wise to the fact that causing economic damage would get more leverage than shooting the occasional squaddie. The Jihadis haven't figured that one out yet.



That's because Al-Qaeda, and now ISIS, have very different strategies and long terms goals to the IRA. ISIS in particular are very explicit about wanting to eliminate the 'grey zone' between them and an anti-Muslim interventionist West, they want pogroms against Muslims in the West so that Muslims turn against Western countries and vice versa.

The IRA wanted Britain out of Northern Ireland, not the Irish out of Britain.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> So they only go back to 2003. Even for an effete and ineffectual liberal that's very poor. At least back as far as 1945, probably auld sykes-picot



Mark Curtis very convincingly traces the roots of modern day Islamist terrorism back to the formation Deobandi groups in opposition to the British Raj in the 1910s. Britain allowed very conservative, extreme versions of Islam to flourish in British India as a way of satisfying the demands of fanatics who they feared would otherwise respond favourably to the Ottoman Empire's calls for Muslims within the British Empire to rise up against it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Mark Curtis very convincingly traces the roots of modern day Islamist terrorism back to the formation Deobandi groups in opposition to the British Raj in the 1910s. Britain allowed very conservative, extreme versions of Islam to flourish in British India as a way of satisfying the demands of fanatics who they feared would otherwise respond favourably to the Ottoman Empire's calls for Muslims within the British Empire to rise up against it.


Yeh. A mite further back than 2003 then.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh. A mite further back than 2003 then.



Actually before 1910 and back into the 19th Century iirc


----------



## J Ed (Mar 26, 2017)

I seriously recommend Curtis' Secret Affairs on this subject, absolutely essential reading for understanding British foreign policy and also the contemporary Middle-East.


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 26, 2017)

You could probably blame the vikings if you wanted.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

bi0boy said:


> You could probably blame the vikings if you wanted.


On the grounds that...


----------



## ferrelhadley (Mar 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Mark Curtis very convincingly traces the roots of modern day Islamist terrorism back to the formation Deobandi groups in opposition to the British Raj in the 1910s.


Fascinating. So Wahhabism started in India in 1910. The things you learn from people who always see the same "narrative" in everything. 

Who needs complexity when all of history reduces to such simple moral tales.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 26, 2017)

ferrelhadley said:


> Fascinating. So Wahhabism started in India in 1910. The things you learn from people who always see the same "narrative" in everything.
> 
> Who needs complexity when all of history reduces to such simple moral tales.



I didn't say that Salafism started in India in 1910, probably would be more correct to say that the sort of modern form of political Islam we see today, which has many offshoots many less unpleasant than ISIS, started in 19th Century British India. There is also of course some difference between Deobandi Islam and Salafism, but the two share a great deal in common, the Taliban were Deobandi for example and were quite happy to work with Salafist Al-Qaeda. Both doctrines recognise each other as being correct.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

According to Curtis's Hypernormalisation the Muslim suicide bomber has it's roots in the Americans double crossing Assad senior, leading to re-interpretation of Islamic texts to encourage suicide bombing. Which is interesting because it shows Islam as a mechanism of direct manipulation, rather than a static ideology. Presumably it could be re-interpreted back again.


----------



## mather (Mar 26, 2017)

ferrelhadley said:


> Fascinating. So Wahhabism started in India in 1910. The things you learn from people who always see the same "narrative" in everything.
> 
> Who needs complexity when all of history reduces to such simple moral tales.



If you bothered to read the J Ed's post he said Deobandi Islam originated in South Asia, not Wahhabism.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

I guess ISIS is what happens when you focus too much on regime change and not enough on re-socialisation. A headless chicken.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I guess ISIS is what happens when you focus too much on regime change and not enough on *re-socialisation*. A headless chicken.


Feeling charitable, I'd suggest you didn't quite mean that?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I guess ISIS is what happens when you focus too much on regime change and not enough on re-socialisation. A headless chicken.


Guesses aren't good enough


----------



## IC3D (Mar 26, 2017)

I think the roots of terrorism are in the Saudi funded mosques pooping up all over the world since the 80's spreading Salafi Islam. In conjunction with the failure of authoritarian socialism and secular movements in the middle East.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Feeling charitable, I'd suggest you didn't quite mean that?



I did. It's no good just removing bad rulers when the center of the underlying ideological problem remains unchanged. With the Nazi's and Soviets we were used to fighting the center of ideological power lay with the rulers, but not so with aggressive interpretations of Islam.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

IC3D said:


> I think the roots of terrorism are in the Saudi funded mosques pooping up all over the world since the 80's spreading Salafi Islam. In conjunction with the failure of authoritarian socialism and secular movements in the middle East.



Meaning the source of the ideological problem is actually under the west's protection..


----------



## brogdale (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I did. It's no good just removing bad rulers when the center of the underlying ideological problem remains unchanged. With the Nazi's and Soviets we were used to fighting the center of ideological power lay with the rulers, but not so with aggressive interpretations of Islam.


Ah yes, that "aggressive interpretation of Islam" known as Ba'athism.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

IC3D said:


> I think the roots of terrorism are in the Saudi funded mosques pooping up all over the world since the 80's spreading Salafi Islam. In conjunction with the failure of authoritarian socialism and secular movements in the middle East.


Yeh. Most people trace terrorism back rather further than 1980.


----------



## IC3D (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Meaning the source of the ideological problem is actually under the west's protection..


They're not children, Islam is more powerful than that


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

brogdale said:


> Ah yes, that "aggressive interpretation of Islam" known as Ba'athism.



I'm not talking about Iraq specifically. But about the way we tend to think about engaging a hostile state not being effective when the ideological center is elsewhere.

In Iraq's case getting rid of the Ba'ath party made room for the rise of the headless chicken I mentioned. Headless because the people in charge seem to genuinely believe that stuff, unlike people who change it's interpretations to meet practical desires.

Afghanistan provides a better illustration of my point because that invasion was an attempt at tackling the the ideological problem I'm talking about by attacking the country without being able to take control of the ideological center.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

IC3D said:


> They're not children, Islam is more powerful than that



God and Santa Claus aren't a million miles apart.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 26, 2017)

Problem is islamic militarisms goals are impossible for anyone to deliver or negociate with a peace deal with israel is at least possible in theory though highly unlikely at the moment.


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 26, 2017)

J Ed said:


> I seriously recommend Curtis' Secret Affairs on this subject, absolutely essential reading for understanding British foreign policy and also the contemporary Middle-East.


Good book. Plenty of stuff you won't see in Downton does partition.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 26, 2017)

ferrelhadley said:


>



And that was ISIS was it?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> And that was ISIS was it?



I think it's fair to place Al Qaeda under the heading of "extremist groups like ISIS"


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 26, 2017)

likesfish said:


> Problem is islamic militarisms goals are impossible for anyone to deliver or negociate with a peace deal with israel is at least possible in theory though highly unlikely at the moment.


Bollocks.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 26, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Bollocks.



Is it? Depends on the group, doesn't it? If you take even Al-Qaeda's goals at face value, the overthrow of governments in the Islamic world and the removal of all Western soldiers that is within the confines of reality, sort of. ISIS, by contrast, claim to want to 'take back' Spain and Italy.


----------



## mather (Mar 26, 2017)

CNT36 said:


> Bollocks.



Are you seriously suggesting we should even consider negotiating with ISIS or organisations like it?


----------



## mather (Mar 26, 2017)

Mind you, that person who stood against Corbyn last year suggested we do just that.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

mather said:


> Mind you, that person who stood against Corbyn last year suggested we do just that.



You can't negotiate with people who behead even other muslims who don't conform to their exact views.

This rubbish should have been nipped in the bud. If it had been they wouldnt have been able to take control of the lands now being liberated at a terrible human cost.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> You can't negotiate with people who behead even other muslims who don't conform to their exact views.


Why not? It's not like no one has negotiated with them, is it?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Why not?



Because if they hate other muslims so much imagine what they must feel about people who aren't muslim at all. You can't make peace with people that want to kill you because they hate you. Any policy that isn't aimed at pushing them back will enable them to do more harm.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> It's not like no one has negotiated with them, is it?



Maybe someone has I don't really know. It probably went something like:

"Right, maybe we can come to some sort of compromise over this?"

"DIE YOU INFIDEL SCUM!"


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Maybe someone has I don't really know. It probably went something like:
> 
> "Right, maybe we can come to some sort of compromise over this?"
> 
> "DIE YOU INFIDEL SCUM!"


Yeh. But as you say, you don't know


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Because if they hate other muslims so much imagine what they must feel about people who aren't muslim at all. You can't make peace with people that want to kill you because they hate you. Any policy that isn't aimed at pushing them back will enable them to do more harm.


Yeh cos that's always worked before


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh cos that's always worked before



It wouldve worked a lot better than ignoring them whislt funding those mythical "moderate rebels" against Assad.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

And it's working now, at a terrible cost to the population in areas they would never have occupied if we'd put a stop to it sooner.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> It wouldve worked a lot better than ignoring them whislt funding those mythical "moderate rebels" against Assad.


You should remember it is better to keep quiet and be thought a fool than to jabber away and prove yourself one.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> And it's working now, at a terrible cost to the population in areas they would never have occupied if we'd put a stop to it sooner.


You didn't learn anything from a decade of war in Iraq then


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> You didn't learn anything from a decade of war in Iraq then



Yeah. Don't fuck up by believing bogus intelligence because if you do nobody will believe you when there's a proper case for military action.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Yeah. Don't fuck up by believing bogus intelligence because if you do nobody will believe you when there's a proper case for military action.


I was talking about your actual war and not the fucked up case for war.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I was talking about your actual war and not the fucked up case for war.



That the Iraqi army just runs away? See thats part of the whole re-socialisation thing I was talking about.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> That the Iraqi army just runs away? See thats part of the whole re-socialisation thing I was talking about.


You didn't even notice the vast fuck-up of the cpa disbanding the Iraqi army


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> You didn't even notice the vast fuck-up of the cpa disbanding the Iraqi army



According to this it had pretty much already disbanded it's self.

British officials 'backed disbanding of Iraqi army', says US ambassador

The fact of the matter is that now the Iraqi army is competent, as we should have ensured it was before we left, ISIS is being pushed out of areas that we could have prevented them from occupying in the first place.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 26, 2017)

It was fairly competant when we left but the iraqi pm gutted it of anyome who wasnt a million% loyal to him which rather wrecked.

Saddams army was the gold standard for military incompetence  when you lose an armoured division to light infantry i.e.you have tanks they dont in a desert which is perfect tank country something is seriously wong.


----------



## mather (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> You can't negotiate with people who behead even other muslims who don't conform to their excact views.



Yes you can. The UK not only deals with but actively supports the regime in Saudi Arabia, a regime that carries out ISIS style atrocities on a daily basis. The question should be not whether we can or can't deal with ISIS and like minded groups but whether we should and my answer to that is a resounding no. And even if you wanted to negotiate with such an organisation, you can't for the simple reason that ISIS themselves have stated numerous times that they do not negotiate as a matter of principle. For them, that principle is both a political and religious absolute that they cannot compromise on for if they did they would lose their raison d'etre.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

mather said:


> Yes you can. The UK not only deals with but actively supports the regime in Saudi Arabia, a regime that carries out ISIS style atrocities on a daily basis. The question should be not whether we can or can't deal with ISIS and like minded groups but whether we should and my answer to that is a resounding no. And even if you wanted to negotiate with such an organisation, you can't for the simple reason that ISIS themselves have stated numerous times that they do not negotiate as a matter of principle. For them, that principle is both a political and religious absolute that they cannot compromise on for if they did they would lose their raison d'etre.



Their reason for not negotiating is exactly the attitude I was describing as the reason they couldnt be negotiated with.


----------



## mather (Mar 26, 2017)

True but as I said, even if they offered to negotiate I would oppose such a move as they are beyond the pale, both politically and morally. I would oppose dealing with them as I would oppose us dealing with the Third Reich.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

mather said:


> True but as I said, even if they offered to negotiate I would oppose such a move as they are beyond the
> pale, both politically and morally. I would oppose dealing with them as I would oppose us dealing with the Third Reich.



Precisley.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 26, 2017)

mather said:


> True but as I said, even if they offered to negotiate I would oppose such a move as they are beyond the pale, both politically and morally. I would oppose dealing with them as I would oppose us dealing with the Third Reich.



And yet throughout modern history states - including this one -have done just that.  They've dealt with groups that were both politically and morally beyond the pale, including the Third Reich.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

mather said:


> True but as I said, even if they offered to negotiate I would oppose such a move as they are beyond the pale, both politically and morally. I would oppose dealing with them as I would oppose us dealing with the Third Reich.


Yeh. But we did deal with the third reich on numerous occasions. - Munich being but the most famous


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> And yet throughout modern history states - including this one -have done just that.  They've dealt with groups that were both politically and morally beyond the pale, including the Third Reich.



Which we shouldn't have done. Because groups that are beyond the pale very often tend to be as opposed to our ideas as we are to theirs and so attack us if allowed to grow.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Which we shouldn't have done. Because groups that are beyond the pale very often tend to be as opposed to our ideas as we are to theirs and so attack us if allowed to grow.


Right. So as far as you're concerned UK govts should never have talked to the Hitler govt from Jan 1933 on.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 26, 2017)

reading shirer on the bog earlier I discovered that two main parties excluded from that powers conference were russia and...chekoslovakia. Yet the MPs in parliament were heard to shout 'thank god for the Prime Minister!'

erg


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Which we shouldn't have done. Because groups that are beyond the pale very often tend to be as opposed to our ideas as we are to theirs and so attack us if allowed to grow.



Which the state will ALWAYS do, because it's incumbent on them to explore all avenues, regardless of morality.  Do you read no history?


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Right. So as far as you're concerned UK govts should never have talked to the Hitler govt from Jan 1933 on.



Postponing the inevitable only increased the death toll. We should have had the sopistication to realise the idiological difference was always going to lead to conflict.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Which the state will ALWAYS do, because it's incumbent on them to explore all avenues, regardless of morality.  Do you read no history?



It's incumbent on the state to waste time whilst the enemy strengthens his position? Seems like a strange sort of strategy. Nazi appeasment is very often cited in arguments against doing that.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> It's incumbent on the state to waste time whilst the enemy strengthens his position? Seems like a strange sort of strategy. Nazi appeasment is very often cited in arguments against doing that.



No, it's incumbent on a state to explore all avenues.    All those states who claim "we don't make deals with terrorists"?  They all make deals with terrorists.  Why? Because they are pragmatic about perpetuating the state.


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> No, it's incumbent on a state to explore all avenues.    All those states who claim "we don't make deals with terrorists"?  They all make deals with terrorists.  Why? Because they are pragmatic about perpetuating the state.



The Nazis weren't terrorists.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Postponing the inevitable only increased the death toll. We should have had the sopistication to realise the idiological difference was always going to lead to conflict.


So you think war was inevitable from Jan 1933


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> So you think war was inevitable from Jan 1933



I think we should have realised war was inevitable from the point it became clear they were beyond the pale.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> The Nazis weren't terrorists.



Weren't they?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I think we should have realised war was inevitable from the point it became clear they were beyond the pale.


And that point was...


----------



## green.tea (Mar 26, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> Weren't they?



Not terrorists in the sense that govornments mean when they say "we dont make deals with terrorists".


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Not terrorists in the sense that govornments mean when they say "we dont make deals with terrorists".


But they do


----------



## A380 (Mar 26, 2017)

green.tea said:


> I think we should have realised war was inevitable from the point it became clear they were beyond the pale.


But part, and only part, of the reason we kept talking was to give time to build more Hurricanes and Spitfires ( and Blenheims) - as well as the equipment for an Army we later left in the Nord pas de Calais.


----------



## teqniq (Mar 26, 2017)

This has cheered me up and has the added bonus of pissing off the racist arseholes and the lunatic beardies. So it's win win all round

Muslim women gather on Westminster Bridge to condemn 'abhorrent' attack


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 27, 2017)

Just don't read the comments section and everything is nice.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 27, 2017)

teqniq said:


> This has cheered me up and has the added bonus of pissing off the racist arseholes and the lunatic beardies. So it's win win all round
> 
> Muslim women gather on Westminster Bridge to condemn 'abhorrent' attack


Don't want to be a party pooper but they are Ahmadiyya Muslims who make up less than 1% of muslims worldwide, and allegedly are despised by the rest. I too was heartened by the photo but when I read the comments below it in the Independent I was disappointed. Fake news.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Don't want to be a party pooper but they are Ahmadiyya Muslims who make up less than 1% of muslims worldwide, and allegedly are despised by the rest. I too was heartened by the photo but when I read the comments below it in the Independent I was disappointed. Fake news.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 103003


Absolutely not. You see the world as black and white.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Absolutely not. You see the world as black and white.


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Don't want to be a party pooper but they are Ahmadiyya Muslims who make up less than 1% of muslims worldwide, and allegedly are despised by the rest. I too was heartened by the photo but when I read the comments below it in the Independent I was disappointed. Fake news.



Don't want to be a party pooper but you don't know what you are talking about.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


>



You see, for you there is no middle ground, no dissenting views. Only your own extreme ultra left angle which was clearly shown by your first posts on this thread where you lamented that the attack hadn't killed more people. Now you think you are clever spamming a thread. Why you are not banned nobody knows.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 27, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Don't want to be a party pooper but you don't know what you are talking about.



You sound like Pickman's other account. Do you share an IP address? Neither of you have ana analisys of events or even answer posters questions. Like mutant twins.


----------



## likesfish (Mar 27, 2017)

tbf the people most pissed by this couldnt care to tell the diffrence between hindu skih muslim or atheist brown person so its all good


----------



## agricola (Mar 27, 2017)

A380 said:


> But part, and only part, of the reason we kept talking was to give time to build more Hurricanes and Spitfires ( and Blenheims) - as well as the equipment for an Army we later left in the Nord pas de Calais.



That is to give Chamberlain _et al_ rather more foresight than they were in fact blessed with.  We talked to Hitler for as long as we did because the Government of the day had utterly backed appeasement, almost to the exclusion of any other policy.  Let us not forget that even after Hitler had made the Government's mind up for it they remained largely inactive, at least until Norway made their position untenable (though not untenable enough for a good go at whipping enough fools into voting for them to continue in office).


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> You sound like Pickman's other account. Do you share an IP address? Neither of you have ana analisys of events or even answer posters questions. Like mutant twins.



What's an IP address?


----------



## 8den (Mar 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Don't want to be a party pooper but they are Ahmadiyya Muslims who make up less than 1% of muslims worldwide, and allegedly are despised by the rest. I too was heartened by the photo but when I read the comments below it in the Independent I was disappointed. Fake news.


Where'as Al Qaeda Daesh ISIS types work out at about 0.0001 of Muslims. Your point?


----------



## Ranbay (Mar 27, 2017)

Fair play mind, took 11 years for someone to accuse me of being Pickmans alt... it was a lot of hard work and dedication to get to this day...  *wipes tiny tear from his eye*


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Don't want to be a party pooper but they are Ahmadiyya Muslims who make up less than 1% of muslims worldwide.



And the relevance of this is what? The story said 'muslims on a bridge' and that's exactly what it delivered. You deciding that they're somehow the wrong kind of muslims doesn't have any bearing on the veracity of the story, it just makes you an idiot. 

Unless your name is Allah you don't get to decide who is a proper muslim and who isn't.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> You see, for you there is no middle ground, no dissenting views.









> Only your own extreme ultra left angle which was clearly shown by your first posts on this thread where you lamented that the attack hadn't killed more people. Now you think you are clever spamming a thread. Why you are not banned nobody knows.


this ^^ is utter bollocks. there is middle ground - i find it with plenty of posters, not least editor. i never lamented that the attack had not killed more people, you're talking bollocks: again. you've been rather more concerned with having a pop at me than anything else on this thread, shitting on it like your auld mate b.i.g.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Mar 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Don't want to be a party pooper but they are Ahmadiyya Muslims who make up less than 1% of muslims worldwide, and allegedly are despised by the rest. I too was heartened by the photo but when I read the comments below it in the Independent I was disappointed. Fake news.



It's interesting that when an attack happens the right are keen to paint Muslims as one and the same but when there's some standing in unity in the place of an attack they're keen to point out differences. 

You can't have it both ways unfortunately.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Mar 27, 2017)

Ranbay said:


> Fair play mind, took 11 years for someone to accuse me of being Pickmans alt... it was a lot of hard work and dedication to get to this day...  *wipes tiny tear from his eye*


Those aren't tears, it's just early morning Deweyness


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 27, 2017)

selective collective responsibility. Oiks a big believer in it


----------



## brogdale (Mar 27, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Those aren't tears, it's just early morning Deweyness


Yeah, I'd shelve that idea, I don't think it's an authentik sock-puppet.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

DaveCinzano said:


> Those aren't tears, it's just early morning Deweyness


612 i think you'll find


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It's interesting that when an attack happens the right are keen to paint Muslims as one and the same but when there's some standing in unity in the place of an attack they're keen to point out differences.
> 
> You can't have it both ways unfortunately.


yer man's some sort of alt right affiliate, trumper through and through


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> You sound like Pickman's other account. Do you share an IP address? Neither of you have ana analisys of events or even answer posters questions. Like mutant twins.


you sound like a


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 27, 2017)

green.tea said:


> Not terrorists in the sense that govornments mean when they say "we dont make deals with terrorists".



You must have not read any of the history of the NSDAP prior to 1933, then.


----------



## agricola (Mar 27, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> You must have not read any of the history of the NSDAP prior to 1933, then.



TBH "_terrorists_" is perhaps not the best way to describe them (the pre-1933 NSDAP), as that term has taken on too many connotations since then for it to be accurate.  Of course they did terrorize people, but then again they had far more support from elements of the ruling classes (and even the state in some parts of Germany) than any modern terror group have, even the Loyalists.  Plus there was the whole background of the war, uniformed politics, the _freikorps_ and the failed revolutions etc which further separate them from the modern sense of the word.


----------



## killer b (Mar 27, 2017)

Is that Oik character repeating racist's talking points again? How curious.


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Mar 27, 2017)

I keep seeing this picture cross my feed with along some rare comments.






This seems to be a Rorschach text that reveals more about the viewer, than it does the woman in the photo.


----------



## Athos (Mar 27, 2017)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I keep seeing this picture cross my feed with along some rare comments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 And maybe about photographers and editors. How many non muslims walked past without it being documented?


----------



## gosub (Mar 27, 2017)

Families of Westminster attack victims found out fate through pictures online


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2017)

gosub said:


> Families of Westminster attack victims found out fate through pictures online


It's horrible but such is the nature of 24/7 news coverage. Everything and anything gets shown.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 27, 2017)

killer b said:


> Is that Oik character repeating racist's talking points again? How curious.


From a quick scan It does seem to be a talking point that appears a lot on the far right of Twitter, at least, and pretty much nowhere else on the platform, that Ahmadiyya Muslims are not representative of Muslims in general and are hated because they're too peaceful and tolerant. I even saw some EDL type saying they've never had a problem with Ahmadiyya Muslims, which seems a bit unlikely.

It's not true anyway; there were a load of different people there, including many non-Muslims, and I see nothing to suggest that even all the Muslims there were Ahmadiyya. As if it mattered which it doesn't.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 27, 2017)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I keep seeing this picture cross my feed with along some rare comments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seen backlash stuff debunking it, well, showing her looking as you would in the circumstances, a bit messed up. A disgrace though that her picture's gone around the world before anyone had a chance to mention how out of order it was.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 27, 2017)

teqniq said:


> This has cheered me up and has the added bonus of pissing off the racist arseholes and the lunatic beardies. So it's win win all round
> 
> Muslim women gather on Westminster Bridge to condemn 'abhorrent' attack



Depresses me to be honest, random people feeling the need to say 'we don't support this' when anyone with half a mind wouldn't have raised the question in the first pace. Fair play to them, but fuck the racist wankers who make it seem necessary in the first place.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 27, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> From a quick scan It does seem to be a talking point that appears a lot on the far right of Twitter, at least, and pretty much nowhere else on the platform, that Ahmadiyya Muslims are not representative of Muslims in general and are hated because they're too peaceful and tolerant. I even saw some EDL type saying they've never had a problem with Ahmadiyya Muslims, which seems a bit unlikely.
> 
> It's not true anyway; there were a load of different people there, including many non-Muslims, and I see nothing to suggest that even all the Muslims there were Ahmadiyya. As if it mattered which it doesn't.


It seems to have started mostly after Tommy Robinson tweeted something about it, which was retweeted by our cuddly friend Paul Joseph Watson.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 27, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Seen backlash stuff debunking it, well, showing her looking as you would in the circumstances, a bit messed up. A disgrace though that her picture's gone around the world before anyone had a chance to mention how out of order it was.


Iirc it was an agency picture, one of several, including ones where she has a different expression. Amazingly certain people decided to pick that one. Can't think why.

Come to think of it those two blokes in the background look a bit dismissive. Can't trust em eh, shows you all you need to know that does.


----------



## killer b (Mar 27, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It seems to have started mostly after Tommy Robinson tweeted something about it, which was retweeted by our cuddly friend Paul Joseph Watson.


Of course.

We're beyond 'useful idiot' now, surely.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 27, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Iirc it was an agency picture, one of several, including ones where she has a different expression. Amazingly certain people decided to pick that one. Can't think why.
> 
> Come to think of it those two blokes in the background look a bit dismissive. Can't trust em eh, shows you all you need to know that does.



Irony is it's London, I've walked past car crashes, stabbing victims, heart attacks and not broken stride as long as I've known they're alright. Standard reaction I think, only a fool feels the need to throw their drama on top of someone else's. Takes real, shitty, intent to sit behind a keyboard demanding hair wrenching breakdowns.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 27, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Irony is it's London, I've walked past car crashes, stabbing victims, heart attacks and not broken stride as long as I've known they're alright. Standard reaction I think, only a fool feels the need to throw their drama on top of someone else's. Takes real, shitty, intent to sit behind a keyboard demanding hair wrenching breakdowns.


I was reading some interesting stuff about negative politeness behaviour (popular in England and Japan, and also in dense urban environments generally) where you express respect for someone by not intruding. Even if you interact you constantly try to avoid putting any requirements in the other person and apologise for interfering, even if you are actually asking them to do something.

It was interesting to see this written up sociologically as an actual strategy because, I agree, as a Londoner it just seems normal and the most polite thing to not interfere if it looks like the situation is in hand.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Irony is it's London, I've walked past car crashes, stabbing victims, heart attacks and not broken stride as long as I've known they're alright. Standard reaction I think, only a fool feels the need to throw their drama on top of someone else's. Takes real, shitty, intent to sit behind a keyboard demanding hair wrenching breakdowns.


You're not proper London until you just walk past them.


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 27, 2017)

Well lets be honest crowding around an injured person and looking worried isn't much bloody help.  If anything it just makes the situation worse.  All the most of us can provide is rudimentary first aid so if that is being taken care and ambulance is on its way what practical help can you actually offer?


----------



## YouSir (Mar 27, 2017)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I was reading some interesting stuff about negative politeness behaviour (popular in England and Japan, and also in dense urban environments generally) where you express respect for someone by not intruding. Even if you interact you constantly try to avoid putting any requirements in the other person and apologise for interfering, even if you are actually asking them to do something.
> 
> It was interesting to see this written up sociologically as an actual strategy because, I agree, as a Londoner it just seems normal and the most polite thing to not interfere if it looks like the situation is in hand.



Got a source? Or is it impenetrable to the ignorant?


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Got a source? Or is it impenetrable to the ignorant?


Have you tried Google?


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 27, 2017)

No-one would remember the good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> Have you tried Google?



I prefer human interaction, even if it's digital.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

Buckaroo said:


> No-one would remember the good Samaritan if he'd only had good intentions.


The road to hell is paved with good intentions


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

YouSir said:


> I prefer human interaction, even if it's digital.


We're all robots


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> The road to hell is paved with good intentions



Bloody do gooders making us feel bad about not really giving a shit.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> We're all robots



Even so, I still believe you've got a soul Pickman's, somewhere, deep down, in a file perhaps, or on a high shelf.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Even so, I still believe you've got a soul Pickman's, somewhere, deep down, in a file perhaps, or on a high shelf.


I've got a jar full of 'em


----------



## YouSir (Mar 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I've got a jar full of 'em



Well there you go then, slap one into that giant metal head of yours and you're as human as anyone. Stick them all in and you can replace every poster here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Well there you go then, slap one into that giant metal head of yours and you're as human as anyone. Stick them all in and you can replace every poster here.


They came from human posters


----------



## YouSir (Mar 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> They came from human posters



So your jar is where pbman, TobyJug and Firky disappeared to? Maybe better to keep it closed then, as you were Mr Robot.


----------



## Buckaroo (Mar 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> I've got a jar full of 'em



Pickled. A jar full of pickled souls and a knot of soggy black slime for a heart.


----------



## Wilf (Mar 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> We're all robots


'How many squares contain street signs?'


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

Wilf said:


> 'How many squares contain street signs?'


All of them  have you ever been in a square in London or elsewhere without a street sign?


----------



## 1%er (Mar 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> You're not proper London until you just walk past them.


and film it on your phone as you pass  nowadays


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 27, 2017)

1%er said:


> and film in on your phone as you pass  nowadays


No, where you pay them no heed even if you notice their presence


----------



## 1%er (Mar 27, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> No, where you pay them no heed even if you notice their presence


you are getting old, its all filmed and put on social media nowadays, you can still show indifference to people but not social media


----------



## J Ed (Mar 27, 2017)

Athos said:


> And maybe about photographers and editors. How many non muslims walked past without it being documented?



Probably plenty but this one was picked up for obvious reasons, the photographer actually signed a statement which provided context which surprisingly enough wasn't 'woman in hijab actually happy/not bothered about terrorist attack carnage two steps behind her'.


----------



## Athos (Mar 27, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Probably plenty but this one was picked up for obvious reasons, the photographer actually signed a statement which provided context which surprisingly enough wasn't 'woman in hijab actually happy/not bothered about terrorist attack carnage two steps behind her'.



A statement. When a picture is worth 1,000 words.  Too little, too late. As if they didn't know the purpose to which that image would be put (and, thereby, its market value).


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Mar 27, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Got a source? Or is it impenetrable to the ignorant?


I can't remember the specific article I was reading, but there are write-ups in other contexts, mostly concentrating on language used e.g. Politeness theory - Wikipedia (with an example from Neighbours).


----------



## CNT36 (Mar 27, 2017)

mather said:


> Are you seriously suggesting we should even consider negotiating with ISIS or organisations like it?


No, just the idea that it is impossible for people to negotiate with them when they have negotiated with other groups in the past.  I hold their self proclaimed objection to negotiation with the same seriousness as statements by various governments that they do not negotiate with terrorists.


----------



## J Ed (Mar 28, 2017)

Athos said:


> A statement. When a picture is worth 1,000 words.  Too little, too late. As if they didn't know the purpose to which that image would be put (and, thereby, its market value).



Sounds like you are making a huge and inaccurate assumption to me


----------



## Athos (Mar 28, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Sounds like you are making a huge and inaccurate assumption to me


A strong suspicion.


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 28, 2017)

Do you believe that all "Not in my name" campaigns are politically wrong? And should therefore be avoided?

That the idea coming from one group, expecting another to participate or show some kind of not in my name activity is a construct of the right and not a natural reaction?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 28, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> expecting another


heres your major malfunction


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 28, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> heres your major malfunction



Can you elaborate?


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 28, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> Can you elaborate?


if some from group x want to do a NIMN thing then that is fine. It should not be expected of them, not by society, not by anyone. Thats collective responsibility talk.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 28, 2017)

Good statement from Brits fighting ISIS
British anti-terror fighters demolish far-right propaganda after London attack. We need to hear their message. | The Canary


----------



## Anudder Oik (Mar 29, 2017)

I understand your point about collective responsibility talk and agree now. I don't think it is a construct of the right but more a natural reaction as I have seen it manifest itself in very unpoliticized people I know. I think we also need to examine our own reaction/emotion on seeing the photo of the women on the bridge. Why did we feel that it was heartwarming?

Home - Not In My Name


----------



## ddraig (Mar 29, 2017)

.


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 29, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> . I think we also need to examine our own reaction/emotion on seeing the photo of the women on the bridge. Why did we feel that it was heartwarming?



I didn't think it was heartwarming at all - quite the opposite. It smacks of bullying, they've been forced into being there because they're told otherwise it's their fault. It's nothing to do with them.  This whole 'you must condemn xxx otherwise you support it' attitude can fuck off, along with the similar attitude that everyone on telly must wear a poppy from the start of October. Mob rule can cunt off.


----------



## Dogsauce (Mar 29, 2017)

"Look, see, these brown people are all right (pity they're not all like that)"


----------



## bi0boy (Mar 29, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> I didn't think it was heartwarming at all - quite the opposite. It smacks of bullying, they've been forced into being there because they're told otherwise it's their fault. It's nothing to do with them.  This whole 'you must condemn xxx otherwise you support it' attitude can fuck off, along with the similar attitude that everyone on telly must wear a poppy from the start of October. Mob rule can cunt off.



Is that what they said when you asked them?


----------



## weltweit (Apr 7, 2017)

Andreea Cristea, the woman who fell from Westminster Bridge during the attack, has died in hospital of her injuries.

Westminster attack: Andreea Cristea who fell into Thames dies in hospital


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Apr 7, 2017)




----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 7, 2017)

Anudder Oik said:


> I understand your point about collective responsibility talk and agree now. I don't think it is a construct of the right but more a natural reaction as I have seen it manifest itself in very unpoliticized people I know. I think we also need to examine our own reaction/emotion on seeing the photo of the women on the bridge. Why did we feel that it was heartwarming?
> 
> Home - Not In My Name


i didn't feel it was heartwarming, so don't include me in your us.


----------



## SqueakyBumTime (Apr 8, 2017)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I keep seeing this picture cross my feed with along some rare comments.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What the fuck does this photo have to do with the bird ignoring it on her phone?  Look at the others


----------



## mystic pyjamas (Apr 8, 2017)

Bird?


----------



## existentialist (Apr 8, 2017)

SqueakyBumTime said:


> What the fuck does this photo have to do with the bird ignoring it on her phone?  Look at the others


"Bird", FFS. Just in case you're not trolling, you need to know that there is a general consensus on Urban that terms like that are unacceptable.


----------



## ddraig (Apr 8, 2017)

The woman was not ignoring you tedious troll


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 10, 2017)

Anti-terror ring of steel set up for PC Keith Palmer's funeral

bit excessive to close swathes of central london for this funeral. i wonder how much is being spent on this which could be better spent on the policing purposes of preventing and detecting crime.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 10, 2017)

wondered why there was tooled up coppery everywhere this morning . Bit of an OTT exercise unless their was some kind of evidence of a threat. I can see coppers wanting to see off one of their own obviously- they are only human - but will / have other funerals garnered this much of a bristling display of weaponry and control  ?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 10, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> wondered why there was tooled up coppery everywhere this morning . Bit of an OTT exercise unless their was some kind of evidence of a threat


All part of the spectacle.


----------



## bimble (Apr 10, 2017)

mystic pyjamas said:


> Bird?


Totally off topic but I'm reading the old Raymond Chandler books at the moment and in there (1950s American noir) 'bird' always means man, as in 'he was a strange old bird'. Which is weird.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 10, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> wondered why there was tooled up coppery everywhere this morning . Bit of an OTT exercise unless their was some kind of evidence of a threat. I can see coppers wanting to see off one of their own obviously- they are only human - but will / have other funerals garnered this much of a bristling display of weaponry and control  ?


I suspect they considered the possibility that a terror attack on hundreds/thousands of police gathered in one place for a well-publicised event might be a tempting proposition.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 10, 2017)

existentialist said:


> I suspect they considered the possibility that a terror attack on hundreds/thousands of police gathered in one place for a well-publicised event might be a tempting proposition.


yeh for any number of individuals and groups.

i do hope none of the cops have used police resources for their travel today.


----------



## The Pale King (Apr 10, 2017)

bimble said:


> Totally off topic but I'm reading the old Raymond Chandler books at the moment and in there (1950s American noir) 'bird' always means man, as in 'he was a strange old bird'. Which is weird.



True, same in Wodehouse...


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 10, 2017)

SqueakyBumTime said:


> What the fuck does this photo have to do with the bird ignoring it on her phone?  Look at the others



I'm not sure what your point is.  I posted the photo because people were going after the "Muslim" woman for ignoring the whole thing.  I was pointing out that you can tell a lot about someone's politics by how they react to that photo.  There's a lot of racists out there who are only too happy to selectively grab pictures and claim some pretty odd stuff that can't be supported by the facts.  So far all I've figured out about you is that you don't really read posts before reacting.


----------



## chandlerp (Apr 10, 2017)

and that "bird" is an appropriate term for women


----------



## existentialist (Apr 10, 2017)

Yuwipi Woman said:


> I'm not sure what your point is.  I posted the photo because people were going after the "Muslim" woman for ignoring the whole thing.  I was pointing out that you can tell a lot about someone's politics by how they react to that photo.  There's a lot of racists out there who are only too happy to selectively grab pictures and claim some pretty odd stuff that can't be supported by the facts.  So far all I've figured out about you is that you don't really read posts before reacting.


I think SqueakyBumTime's main point is to remind everyone what a mouth-breathing fool looks like when someone's been kind enough to sort them out with Internet access.


----------



## ddraig (Apr 10, 2017)

chandlerp said:


> and that "bird" is an appropriate term for women


appropriate?


----------



## chandlerp (Apr 10, 2017)

Yes, appropriate for him apparently


----------



## Reiabuzz (Apr 10, 2017)

not-bono-ever said:


> wondered why there was tooled up coppery everywhere this morning . Bit of an OTT exercise unless their was some kind of evidence of a threat. I can see coppers wanting to see off one of their own obviously- they are only human - but will / have other funerals garnered this much of a bristling display of weaponry and control  ?



I work right near London Bridge. You'd think Diana had been reincarnated and died again. I know it's sad he died but a state funeral with streets closed? Mega OTT.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Apr 10, 2017)

cycled past at 5.30- a double decker had become wedged in the anti car barricades under the bridge at London Bridge and all of Borough was gridlocked.


----------



## Artaxerxes (Apr 10, 2017)

Huh, and the attack hadn't even happened when I booked today off.


Glad I avoided it all, would have messed with my lunch time walk around London Bridge.


----------



## Obediah Marsh (Apr 10, 2017)

What are the legal options of this young woman? Her image is being plastered across the internet with scurrilous commentary.


----------



## stuff_it (Apr 28, 2017)

I'm glad people like SqueakyBumTime Call women "birds". It serves as a warning.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk


----------

