# Sense8 - Netflix original by The Matrix & Babylon 5 creators



## Kid_Eternity (Jun 5, 2015)

Now streaming the full first series. Anyone watched yet? Just saw the first episode and have to say it isn't grabbing me at all. 

Having 8 different characters, stories and locations across the world feels a little unwieldy for a  hourly episode structure. And the less said about the 'man we're all connected' hippy nonsense the better...

Will watch a few more to see if it gets better (Daredevil had a slightly slow start and turned out awesome!) though given I like the creators and much of their previous work....


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 5, 2015)

Hadn't even heard of it. What's the basic story/setup?


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## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2015)

> A group of people around the world are suddenly linked mentally, and must find a way to survive being hunted by those who see them as a threat to the world's order.



sounds like an excuse for the wach-wotsit siblings to do their favourite thing: lots and lots of chase sequences

I'll give it a go.


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 5, 2015)

I heard about this last night. I'll try it out. On my immediate TV want-to-watch list, however, is Orphan Black and Steven Universe. And of course S3 of OITNB when that hits.


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## 8den (Jun 5, 2015)

I got five minutes into Jupiter ascending and switched it of. Will give this a go but not hopeful, trailer has a heroes vibe to it


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## DotCommunist (Jun 5, 2015)

8den said:


> I got five minutes into Jupiter ascending and switched it of. Will give this a go but not hopeful, trailer has a heroes vibe to it


JA is total space opera guff but there is some epic futuristic chase scenes in it. Some of the style reminded me of the Neo-Seoul they did in Cloud Atlas.


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## snadge (Jun 6, 2015)

I'm really starting to like this, good characters, really like Sun and Nomi.


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## snadge (Jun 6, 2015)

Yeah, great characters, I still like Sun but Wolfgang is awesome as is Riley and the bloody cop that was in stargate Universe playing the same, it fits though.

And Sigur Ros, I really hope it gets a second season.


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## 8den (Jun 6, 2015)

Honest it was when they broken in to steal the telescope I just went nope, this looks stupid im off.

Actually a friend was 1st assistant on it I want to get his opinion on working with the warkoskis


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## 8den (Jun 6, 2015)

snadge said:


> Yeah, great characters, I still like Sun but Wolfgang is awesome as is Riley and the bloody cop that was in stargate Universe playing the same, it fits though.
> 
> And Sigur Ros, I really hope it gets a second season.


Is the music actually sigur ros I thought they never licences there stuff for TV or ads. Any time you think you hear sigur ros on tv its a cheap knock off


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 6, 2015)

I fell asleep to episode 1, about halfway through, last night, so I'm going to restart it. It looked like a pretty entertaining and well made show, though.


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 6, 2015)

Just got to the end of the first episode. Its the warchowskis (sp) drug experiences captured on celluloid. Which is not a bad thing.

Some nice touches. The dripping strap-on is an image that will be with me to my grave.


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 6, 2015)

Also, visually, this is stunning. The best cinematography in a TV show since Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.  More evocative of the latter, with an emphasis on primary colours, probably filtered through some kind of Instagramd post edit. Really really impressive.


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## ruffneck23 (Jun 6, 2015)

just seen first ep, like the way it's shot, Martha Jones from dr who and DMT.... 

havent got a clue whats going on mind, into ep 2


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## snadge (Jun 6, 2015)

8den said:


> Is the music actually sigur ros I thought they never licences there stuff for TV or ads. Any time you think you hear sigur ros on tv its a cheap knock off



Yeah Sigur Ros track at the end of the season.

The Iceland stuff was filmed beautifully.


Really enjoyed it, it gets much better once you start to understand it and the pace quickens up as the season progresses, hope this gets the go ahead for more seasons.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 6, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> I heard about this last night. I'll try it out. On my immediate TV want-to-watch list, however, is Orphan Black and Steven Universe. And of course S3 of OITNB when that hits.


Steven universe gets quite interesting. I like this new trend for kids cartoons to develop and go somewhere rather than resetting each week. Steven universe, the regular show and adventure time have plots that surpass any adult fare I have seen in years!


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 6, 2015)

I'm on episode 4, 4 non blondes karaeoke. Really clever. Really good.  Fuck this is great television.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2015)

can't find a torrent for episode 2 yet but episode 1 was pretty cool. Is it the law now that all new series must have at least one sex scene in the pilot? Druipping strap on lol.


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 6, 2015)

It helps to watch it if you are simultaneously withdrawing from and taking drugs whilst watching.


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 6, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> can't find a torrent for episode 2 yet but episode 1 was pretty cool. Is it the law now that all new series must have at least one sex scene in the pilot? Druipping strap on lol.



You have PM.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 6, 2015)

the cute japanese (? thai) woman is the same woman from Cloud Atlas.


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 6, 2015)

Think so. She's a bit of a badass. Ep 3 title "my moneys on the skinny bitch" classic lol.

Also, the looks on the faces of the 3 people in the threesome, episode 2 or 3.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 6, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the cute japanese (? thai) woman is the same woman from Cloud Atlas.




Ah Sympaty for Mr Vengence's Donna Bae, she's a bit of a badarse in that too. 
The 36 year old that still plays schoolgirl roles. 

Shes Korean


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 6, 2015)

Classical music baby montage ftw.


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 6, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Steven universe gets quite interesting. I like this new trend for kids cartoons to develop and go somewhere rather than resetting each week. Steven universe, the regular show and adventure time have plots that surpass any adult fare I have seen in years!



Did you watch Korra? Obviously that was going to follow the narrative pattern (for the most part) of Avatar, rather than resetting and monster of the week stuff. But I really liked some of the things it dealt with. I saw great potential for bringing the 4 season strands together at the end, and was sad that didn't happen. I was especially interested in the Equalist movement from S1. The end of S1 was brilliant. Still, it had some great moments and overall I loved it.


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 6, 2015)

Guaranteed you won't see the ending coming...

Well clever.


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## pogofish (Jun 6, 2015)

I'm in on this, thanks - downloading now!


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 6, 2015)

Its ace. Saturday wasted. No regrets.


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## Disjecta Membra (Jun 6, 2015)

cool, gonna check this out too.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 7, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> Did you watch Korra? Obviously that was going to follow the narrative pattern (for the most part) of Avatar, rather than resetting and monster of the week stuff. But I really liked some of the things it dealt with. I saw great potential for bringing the 4 season strands together at the end, and was sad that didn't happen. I was especially interested in the Equalist movement from S1. The end of S1 was brilliant. Still, it had some great moments and overall I loved it.


Never heard of it. What is it?


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## girasol (Jun 8, 2015)

First episode was a bit meh, until towards the end.  Episodes 2 & 3 were very good, now excitedly looking forward to the next episode TONIGHT!

First impressions was: 'Heroes' + 'Orphan Black', but then it came into its own 

Completely gratuitious sex scene on ep. 2 though (German guy) - really so obviously there just for the sake of it.  Apart from that, winning!


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 8, 2015)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Never heard of it. What is it?



#kjbgkjfsbgkjfsbsklgjf

Legend of Korra, sequel to Avatar: The Last Airbender. Both are well worth watching.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 8, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> #kjbgkjfsbgkjfsbsklgjf
> 
> Legend of Korra, sequel to Avatar: The Last Airbender. Both are well worth watching.


Oh god, I think I caught a couple of airbenders. Not for me at all I am afraid.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2015)

8den said:


> Honest it was when they broken in to steal the telescope I just went nope, this looks stupid im off.
> 
> Actually a friend was 1st assistant on it I want to get his opinion on working with the warkoskis



You didn't miss much...was utterly devoid of feeling, coherency or any compelling science fiction fantasy story telling.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 8, 2015)

Watched a few episodes of Orphan Black and thought it was terrible...so far three episodes into S8 and it's about as good as its name...


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 13, 2015)

Jon-of-arc said:


> I'm on episode 4, 4 non blondes karaeoke. Really clever. Really good.  Fuck this is great television.



That was ruthlessly manipulative, but I'm drunk so it worked. Had me in shreds it did.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 16, 2015)

Haven't bothered going back to it...says it all really.


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## BoxRoom (Jun 17, 2015)

Fucking excellent telly.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 20, 2015)

On to episode 6 and it still isn't all that...


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## adidaswoody (Jun 20, 2015)

I've watched it twice!  I really really enjoyed it! There was one scene that I didn't enjoy too much, if anyone else has watched it all you'll know which one I'm on about haha but yeah, it was right up my street  the karaoke scene is one of my favourite out of any TV show I've ever seen I think


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 20, 2015)

adidaswoody said:


> I've watched it twice!  I really really enjoyed it! There was one scene that I didn't enjoy too much, if anyone else has watched it all you'll know which one I'm on about haha



birthgiving montage?


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 20, 2015)

This seems like something you'd either love or hate. I loved it personally, there were some moments of silly overblown dialogue and some fairly implausaible plotlines but they are more than made up for by the sheer ambition, creativity and enthusiasm of the thing. 

The premise itself is such a wonderful idea and so well handled in terms of the visual grammar of the show that I just couldn't resist it. It feels like what they wanted to do with Cloud Atlas, expanded beyond the confines of someone else's novel and the time limits imposed by trying to fit it all into one movie.


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 20, 2015)

And unlike everything else ever, they've actually got an _excuse_ to do elaborate montages.


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## girasol (Jun 20, 2015)

my favourite characters are in the Mexican love triangle: they bring comic relief but are also very sweet 

You can feel a love for travel in the photography and the storyline, I really like that.  It's not perfect but I enjoyed the first season.


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## girasol (Jun 20, 2015)

Jon-of-arc said:


> birthgiving montage?



That was the most wtf thing ever!  Brilliant   I was shouting at the telly!


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 20, 2015)

cult status beckons, I think.


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 20, 2015)

Jon-of-arc said:


> birthgiving montage?



Extraordinary stuff, not even HBO would do that.


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 20, 2015)

doing a rewatch. I'll Just leave this right here....


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 20, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Extraordinary stuff, not even HBO would do that.



Yup, some seriously adult themes, treated in an adult way, but still playful, still entertaining.  Netflix has just upped the game, I reckon!


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## adidaswoody (Jun 20, 2015)

Jon-of-arc said:


> birthgiving montage?


Haha yeah the births was a bit much!! Very graphic haha
The orgy was a little weird to watch too!!
We already knew they could all connect with strong connections together from the karaoke scene, orgy was too much for me haha
Miss adidaswoody woke up during that scene and was like WTF ARE YOU WATCHING..? Assuming I was watching gay porn while she slept lol


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## adidaswoody (Jun 20, 2015)




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## red & green (Jun 20, 2015)

The Spanish guys who are supposed to be Mexican are gorgeous


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 20, 2015)

red & green said:


> The Spanish guys who are supposed to be Mexican are gorgeous



Speaking as a straight man, I would happily do either or both of them.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 21, 2015)

I'm really not clicking with it at all, the acting isn't very good, the story arc unwieldy and the convenience of the connection seems too trite. I like the works of both creative forces here but in Sense8 they've lost site of something. It tries the grandeur of Cloud Atlas and Babylon 5 and fails....


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## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2015)

that four non blondes ending nearly killed me. Theres two tunes that era auto-tear me up, that one and luka. I'm loving this. Spooky had it bang right- they are trying to do the storytellin of Cloud Atlas and gettting it right cos they have the space to tell it.


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## girasol (Jun 21, 2015)

red & green said:


> The Spanish guys who are supposed to be Mexican are gorgeous


Supposed to? Are they not?


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## catinthehat (Jun 21, 2015)

8den said:


> Is the music actually sigur ros I thought they never licences there stuff for TV or ads. Any time you think you hear sigur ros on tv its a cheap knock off


There is some Sigur ros but a lot of Olafar Arnalds and some Monsters and Men as well - all fairly exported Icelandic musicians/bands.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2015)

catinthehat said:


> There is some Sigur ros but a lot of Olafar Arnalds and some *Monsters and Men* as well - all fairly exported Icelandic musicians/bands.


Love love love this.


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## catinthehat (Jun 21, 2015)

Me as well.  Rileys father in the series is played by an Icelandic musician called KK.


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## adidaswoody (Jun 21, 2015)

What are we all watching now then? Lol sense8 is nowhere near long enough


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## girasol (Jun 21, 2015)

adidaswoody said:


> What are we all watching now then? Lol sense8 is nowhere near long enough



Silicon Valley Season 2 was gripping!  EXCELLENT! (with a couple of minor niggling technical fails)  Not on Netflix though.  And not sure it works if you're not in software engineering.  Also Orange is the new black, nearly done.


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## sim667 (Jun 22, 2015)

Watched the first one last night.... Cant decide if its going to be total shit or genius.


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## red & green (Jun 22, 2015)

.


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## red & green (Jun 22, 2015)

girasol said:


> Supposed to? Are they not?


The main guy is from Valencia


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## youngian (Jun 22, 2015)

Not a very original premise- people with unexplained comic book special powers are being chased around by a sinister secret agency/cabal. Most of the characters are dull as dish water (so much so they make a character played by Freema Agyeman look interesting) and the whole thing is padded out with pedestrian soapy and b-movie crime story lines. Or am I just not getting it?


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 22, 2015)

youngian said:


> Not a very original premise- people with unexplained comic book special powers are being chased around by a sinister secret agency/cabal. Most of the characters are dull as dish water (so much so they make a character played by Freema Agyeman look interesting) and the whole thing is padded out with pedestrian soapy and b-movie crime story lines. Or am I just not getting it?



You're not getting it. It's brilliant for the opposite of all these reasons. The premise is about the most original idea I've seen on TV in a long while.


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## youngian (Jun 22, 2015)

sim667 said:


> Watched the first one last night.... Cant decide if its going to be total shit or genius.





SpookyFrank said:


> You're not getting it. It's brilliant for the opposite of all these reasons. The premise is about the most original idea I've seen on TV in a long while.



Like sim667 I'm not convinced that I should dislike it so do try and sell it to me. 

I did enjoy Van Damme's misadventures but the London and German storylines felt like some Danny Dyer gangster caper. The US copper was a nod to a similar looking cop character in Heroes and Indian woman's marriage dilemna was all a bit Eastenders.


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## Kid_Eternity (Jun 22, 2015)

youngian said:


> Not a very original premise- people with unexplained comic book special powers are being chased around by a sinister secret agency/cabal. Most of the characters are dull as dish water (so much so they make a character played by Freema Agyeman look interesting) and the whole thing is padded out with pedestrian soapy and b-movie crime story lines. Or am I just not getting it?



Nope that's about the size of it. Suspect you have to believe in a lot of hippy shit to appreciate this one...


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 22, 2015)

youngian said:


> Like sim667 I'm not convinced that I should dislike it so do try and sell it to me.
> 
> I did enjoy Van Damme's misadventures but the London and German storylines felt like some Danny Dyer gangster caper. The US copper was a nod to a similar looking cop character in Heroes and Indian woman's marriage dilemna was all a bit Eastenders.



Many of the plotlines head off in directions you're not expecting, and deal with themes you're not expecting them to deal with. The first couple of episodes do drag a bit and some of it is quite formulaic but it gets a lot more interesting as the characters and the stories start to connect with each other. There are still soap opera bits and cartoony bits throughout the series but there's a lot more going on. 

And credit where credit's due, the gratuitous fight scenes and gratuitous chase scenes are very well executed. And there's a balance to it all, scenes don't outstay their welcome.


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 22, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nope that's about the size of it. Suspect you have to believe in a lot of hippy shit to appreciate this one...



It's called 'suspension of disbelief' and it's a basic requirement for getting any enjoyment at all out of any work of fiction.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Nope that's about the size of it. Suspect you have to believe in a lot of hippy shit to appreciate this one...


I like space opera, but I'm not about to 'believe' that anything can travel faster than light speed you oaf


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## adidaswoody (Jun 23, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> It's called 'suspension of disbelief' and it's a basic requirement for getting any enjoyment at all out of any work of fiction.


Fiction? Sens8 is a true story right....


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## wayward bob (Jun 25, 2015)

bloody loved this - perfect mix of characterisation, comedy, action and soft porn  binge watched the last 4 episodes yesterday. took a while to properly grow on me but by the end i loved every strand and rooted for all the main characters. i agree that it goes off in directions you really don't expect, it's far from formulaic imo. i had problems with the ending cos one strand was triggering for me and i had to skip over quite a lot of it.

what i thought was most impressive was the way they managed to reveal the story bit-by-bit from the characters' point of view - we never know anything they don't. although i loved the set-piece montages i think mr b nailed it when he said the karaoke scene was like an itunes advert


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## Chuff (Jun 25, 2015)

truly class, netflix binged the whole series, quality writing, acting and refreshing to see some open LGBT agenda's written without a soapbox


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## wayward bob (Jun 25, 2015)

yeah, there was one strand in particular that in any other series would have been a massive thing in itself. but i thought it was very deftly handled as being no big deal


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 25, 2015)

I'm already on a re-watch.  Such a good story, and so much that I missed first time round, watching through a drug induced haze (although, I assure you, that is possibly the best way to truly appreciate it...) 

*sings badly*
"And I pray, oh my god do I pray, for a second season!!"


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## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2015)

Chuff said:


> truly class, netflix binged the whole series, quality writing, acting and *refreshing to see some open LGBT agenda's written without a soapbox*



I'm on episode 9 cos I keep getting distracted by books and computer games but you make a good point. So often these things get grandstanded like 'look at how daring we are. Consider your mind blown!'

wheras in this its all just handled with a refreshing ordinariness- heres a couple and heres their problems, same as any other.


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 25, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I'm on episode 9 cos I keep getting distracted by books and computer games but you make a good point. So often these things get grandstanded like 'look at how daring we are. Consider your mind blown!'
> 
> wheras in this its all just handled with a refreshing ordinariness- heres a couple and heres their problems, same as any other.



I've got 
*Of Monsters and Men My Head Is An Animal *
on in the background. beautiful music....



Cheers for the heads up on this...


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## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2015)

Jon-of-arc said:


> I've got
> *Of Monsters and Men My Head Is An Animal *
> on in the background. beautiful music....
> 
> ...



My mate introduced me to them as 'can you imagine a not-shit Beautiful South duet? well, now you don't have to'


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## Jon-of-arc (Jun 25, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> My mate introduced me to them as 'can you imagine a not-shit Beautiful South duet? well, now you don't have to'



I'll have to remember that one.  nobody in my real life pays any attention to my TV or music reccomendations.  The twats.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2015)

adidaswoody said:


> What are we all watching now then? Lol sense8 is nowhere near long enough


Killjoys

in some far future we have a system of four human inhabited planets- and its Company town. The corporate rules everything and you can fucking forget about any notion of declaring bankruptcy. If you are in debt you are owned, thats it, debt slavery.

First episode is great, we will see how it develops from here. Two bounty hunters in this fucked up cyperpunk randian future.

People who like Killjoys may also have enjoyed Firefly, LEXX and generally any series where an embattled crew scrape by and somehow manage to fight The Man at the same time (often by accident, the rogues)


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## 8den (Jun 28, 2015)

Okay a few things.



Spoiler



Was Riley supposed to have lost a child in the car crash? 

Was Riley's mum a Sense8? 

What's the deal with Will and the missing kid from his childhood?

How did the Nairobi thugs kidnap the big boss? 

Was Jonas being controlled by Whispers or was he playing him all along? 

Why did Riley have a haemorrhage at the concert? 

Is Sun still in prison or is her father's confession going to release?


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## 8den (Jun 28, 2015)

Spoke to the other half and cleared up alot of the WTF stuff. I don't know whats more implausible the premise or the idea that there are 8 four non blonde fans in the world.

Martha Jones with a strap on was a bit astonishing.


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## fishfinger (Jun 28, 2015)

8den said:


> I don't know whats more implausible the premise or the idea that there are 8 four non blonde fans in the world.


Maybe they all inherited the same faulty gene from their mother?


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## 8den (Jun 28, 2015)

fishfinger said:


> Maybe they all inherited the same faulty gene from their mother?



Should ask for a refund so.


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## fishfinger (Jun 28, 2015)

8den said:


> Should ask for a refund so.


Why do you think she killed herself?


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 28, 2015)

Most of the main characters seem to have at least one dead parent


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## 8den (Jun 29, 2015)

SpookyFrank said:


> Most of the main characters seem to have at least one dead parent


True. Aside from india chick, we dont hear about Wolfgangs mum (I think its implied his dad molested him) we only hear about the gay guys dad, naomi mum appears but not her dad, Nairobi dudes dad was murdered, Sun's mother is dead, I had assumed the woman who spoke to Riley was her mum but she must be another Sens8. Wills mum is never mentioned.

But thats not a pattern some do have both parents others have mums others have dads.


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## sim667 (Jun 29, 2015)

Im on episode 6, its nauseatingly clichéd but somewhat compelling


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## adidaswoody (Jun 29, 2015)

8den said:


> I don't know whats more implausible the premise or the idea that there are 8 four non blonde fans in the world.


Hey, what's going on?


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## 8den (Jun 29, 2015)

Dark confession time I did buy it on cassette in the 90s as a single, but what are odds of a Icelandic House DJ having it on her Ipod in 2015?


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## adidaswoody (Jun 29, 2015)

8den said:


> Dark confession time I did buy it on cassette in the 90s as a single, but what are odds of a Icelandic House DJ having it on her Ipod in 2015?


It's on my phone without about 17 other random songs that don't fit in with the other 2000 house and drum and bass songs!


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## Chuff (Jul 13, 2015)

8den said:


> Dark confession time I did buy it on cassette in the 90s as a single, but what are odds of a Icelandic House DJ having it on her Ipod in 2015?


she obviously caught the he-man meme and got hooked


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## AnnO'Neemus (Jul 13, 2015)

8den said:


> Is the music actually sigur ros I thought they never licences there stuff for TV or ads. Any time you think you hear sigur ros on tv its a cheap knock off


Speaking of music, I loved Mogwai's contribution to Les Revenants, shame they weren't roped in to score The Returned as well.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Jul 13, 2015)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Also, visually, this is stunning. The best cinematography in a TV show since Breaking Bad and Better Call Saul.  More evocative of the latter, with an emphasis on primary colours, probably filtered through some kind of Instagramd post edit. Really really impressive.


Have you seen Channel 4's Utopia? Fab cinematography, especially some of the external, landscape shots, and also the colourist did a fantastic job.

Also, the Welsh series Hinterland had some brilliant cinematography.


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## AnnO'Neemus (Jul 13, 2015)

Kid_Eternity said:


> Watched a few episodes of Orphan Black and thought it was terrible...so far three episodes into S8 and it's about as good as its name...


Orphan Black's brilliant. The acting by Tatiana Maslany is quite simply phenomenal, it's so superlative that it's possible to forget that it's the same actress playing so many characters. I remember during one episode, seeing the credits and thinking, Oh, they showed the name of the actor who plays Donny, but what about Alison... and then I remembered that they'd shown Tatiana Maslany's name at the beginning, and I'd associated the name with the Sarah Manning character. Alison and Felix are a very funny double act.


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## Jon-of-arc (Jul 21, 2015)

Season 2 looking likely

http://www.vcpost.com/articles/7945...-2-renewal-netflix-announcement-this-week.htm

Apparently already scripted, and a 5 season arc mapped out.  I never watched babylon5, but apparently that also had a "proper" planned arc over its many seasons, something which I think delivers a more satisfying viewing experience than shows which have an amazing idea which the scriptwriters muddle through without knowing exactly where they are going.  See Lost, for a perfect example.  Here's Peter Watts ranting about this very issue...

http://www.rifters.com/crawl/?p=1331


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## SpookyFrank (Jul 21, 2015)

Yeah I'm glad to hear they've got proper story arcs planned out already. Hopefully more shows will start taking this approach, or use the standalone story model like Fargo, True Detective and American Horror Story. 

Hopefully with the online streaming model shows will have more of a chance to attract fans over time and decisions about what gets cancelled or renewed won't be made on the back of opening night ratings. Sense 8 strikes me as the sort of thing that could build up a real cult following.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 11, 2015)

second season confirmed, bonus.


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## adidaswoody (Aug 11, 2015)

Yarp  very excited!


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## DotCommunist (Aug 11, 2015)

when you look at jupiter ascending in comparison to this its not hard to be glad that the watwhatsit sibs are going to be doing a series rather than another rubbish but visually pleasing film. JA suffered from a lot of ideas overload. You could tell a good story in that mythos over three books. Space Opera tends to suffer very very badly when its shoehorned into film length. There is just too much to tell. Reminds me of how badly Chronicles of Riddick failed.


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## joustmaster (Aug 11, 2015)

I really enjoyed that. I can't wait for the next series.

Tuppence is a ridiculous name.


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## Nanker Phelge (Aug 11, 2015)

I'm starting to like this a bit now....after struggling to get through ep 1 I have watched 3 and looking forward to seeing where it goes.


----------



## mrscooker (Aug 13, 2015)

Thanks for the recommendation, just binge watched and loved it.


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## spanglechick (Aug 13, 2015)

I saw the matrix/Babylon 5 pedigree and it put me right off... Then watched it out of boredom.  Loved it.  

It is a bit like heroes, but without the stupids.  And a little soapy in places... But it's remarkable TV.  The birth montage has rightly been given lots of attention, but the orgy? Bloody amazing.   Just beautiful and erotic, like a renaissance sculpture come to life and feeling horny.   

Can I also say what a fantastically, meaningfully feminist piece it is.  Not Sun's kickboxing (which is a bit primary school "girl power") but the little things.   There are two tampon scenes.   Two.  Since watching it I've realised how hidden and bizarrely ignored menstruation is in TV and film.   And how odd and misogynistic that is.  Anyway that.   And the extent to which male nudity balances out (over balances?) female nudity.


----------



## adidaswoody (Aug 13, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> I saw the matrix/Babylon 5 pedigree and it put me right off... Then watched it out of boredom.  Loved it.
> 
> It is a bit like heroes, but without the stupids.  And a little soapy in places... But it's remarkable TV.  The birth montage has rightly been given lots of attention, but the orgy? Bloody amazing.   Just beautiful and erotic, like a renaissance sculpture come to life and feeling horny.
> 
> Can I also say what a fantastically, meaningfully feminist piece it is.  Not Sun's kickboxing (which is a bit primary school "girl power") but the little things.   There are two tampon scenes.   Two.  Since watching it I've realised how hidden and bizarrely ignored menstruation is in TV and film.   And how odd and misogynistic that is.  Anyway that.   And the extent to which male nudity balances out (over balances?) female nudity.


Disliked the orgy, I already knew the strength of their bonds when they all sang together, that orgy I didn't wanna see and before that episode I'd already recommended it to lots of people, they watched it with their family, then they were all shouting at me for not mentioning a gay orgy


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## spanglechick (Aug 13, 2015)

adidaswoody said:


> Disliked the orgy, I already knew the strength of their bonds when they all sang together, that orgy I didn't wanna see and before that episode I'd already recommended it to lots of people, they watched it with their family, then they were all shouting at me for not mentioning a gay orgy


It started with gay strapon sex.  Episode one, scene one.  How was the orgy a surprise?  or is male gay sex less acceptable than female gay sex?


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## adidaswoody (Aug 13, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> It started with gay strapon sex.  Episode one, scene one.  How was the orgy a surprise?  or is male gay sex less acceptable than female gay sex?


I only found this out after I recommended it to people too!!!
When I First clicked on sense8 on my Netflix it started me about 11 minutes into the first episode iirc, and I didn't notice, thought the start was odd but I was tired and didnt question it. someone else who uses my Netflix mustve watched the first bit and thought nah and turned it off!
It was only watching it the second time around I was like WHAT I don't remember this 
When people were mentioning it to me, I was that guy that pretends he knows what their talking about, nodding along like the Churchill dog just thinking, what strap on scene xD they must be on about something else lol


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## Mrs Miggins (Aug 13, 2015)

I'm with you spanglechick - I thought the orgy scene was really beautifully done. And you are bang on about menstruation. It's never mentioned in anything. Except perhaps if a woman is being grumpy/psychotic.


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## 8den (Aug 13, 2015)

AnnO'Neemus said:


> Have you seen Channel 4's Utopia? Fab cinematography, especially some of the external, landscape shots, and also the colourist did a fantastic job.
> 
> .



American version directed by David Fincher has fallen through


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## 8den (Aug 13, 2015)

On an aside JMSs strength has always been developing strong character arcs while the Warkoskis have been excellent at strong visuals  combined with quasi mysticism. 

The transgender character is very strong probably drawn from the experience of Lana Warkoskis gender realignment. Weakest plot for me was the St Petersberg India star crossed lovers (although I hated the break in on San Fransciso the comedy tone was too forced) I enjoyed the orgy and the Chicago cop car chase. Very inventive and imaginative TV

All in all its the best work both parties have done in over a decade and will watch the 2nd series with interest.


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## wayward bob (Aug 13, 2015)

van damn and the mexicans were my favourite storylines.

there's a short making-of doc up on netflix now, reminded me just how much fun it was, looking forward to another season


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## DotCommunist (Aug 13, 2015)

8den said:


> American version directed by David Fincher has fallen through


I can't say I'm that dissapointed, I'd rather a new series of the brit version

and agreed bob, Van Damn was great.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 13, 2015)

spanglechick said:


> I saw the matrix/Babylon 5 pedigree


the best things I've seen from the wakowski's have been written by other people- Sense8 and the film Cloud Atlas. In some ways cloud atlas has a similar visual thing going on with the quick cuts between place (and in CA case, time)


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## Reno (Aug 13, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the best things I've seen from the wakowski's have been written by other people- Sense8 and the film Cloud Atlas. In some ways cloud atlas has a similar visual thing going on with the quick cuts between place (and in CA case, time)



I still think their best film by far was their first, the lesbian neo-noir _Bound_ and that was written by them. None of that messianic crap in that one.


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## Mrs Miggins (Aug 13, 2015)

Reno said:


> I still think their best film by far was their first, the lesbian neo-noir _Bound_ and that was written by them. None of that messianic crap in that one.


Well I never. I didn't know that was them. I love that film.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 13, 2015)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Well I never. I didn't know that was them. I love that film.



me niether, it has none of the visual flamboyance of matrix/sense8/jupiter ascending that I associate with the siblings.

and was proper steamy.


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## Reno (Aug 13, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> me niether, it has none of the visual flamboyance of matrix/sense8/jupiter ascending that I associate with the siblings.
> 
> and was proper steamy.



There is some show-off camera work in it, but Bound being a first film, it was done on a very low budget and mostly takes place in one apartment. In terms of style its a little like early Coen Brothers or Sam Raimi in non-horror mode


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## 8den (Aug 13, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I can't say I'm that dissapointed, I'd rather a new series of the brit version
> 
> and agreed bob, Van Damn was great.



I'm note sure Fincher doing a U.S. utopia with a larger budget and bigger scale could have been fascinating. Other interesting but unlikely to happen adaptions is Arinosky (sic) is in talks with HBO to adapt Atwoods Mad Addam trilogy which could be incredible.

I hated Cloud Atlas, the stunt casting was just too distracting and the jumping back and forth in time made the plot and themes confusing. I'd highly recommend the book


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## DotCommunist (Aug 13, 2015)

> I'd highly recommend the book



I have read Bone Clocks by the same author and was mighty impressed, been meaning to ge round to cloud atlas


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## 8den (Aug 13, 2015)

Reno said:


> I still think their best film by far was their first, the lesbian neo-noir _Bound_ and that was written by them. None of that messianic crap in that one.



Bound is terrific as is the 1st Matrix, it's painfully obvious that they really didn't plan or anticipate the sequels and they are a muddle. Lana was also struggling with her gender identity and was nearly contemplating suicide during the making of reloaded (which is basically a complete mess of a film saved by the freeway scene) 

I think Sens8 is a great idea the Warkoskis do tremendous visuals and JMS does exceptional story arcs so it'll be interesting to see where this goes. 

One thing I didn't like in Sens8 was the apartment break on scene the comedy was overlong and belaboured like a scene from scooby do. Also the Icelandic chicks flashbacks made little sense (she lost her baby in a car crash, was the old lady supposed to be her mother or another sens8?)


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## 8den (Aug 13, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> I have read Bone Clocks by the same author and was mighty impressed, been meaning to ge round to cloud atlas



Vice versa for me. Cloud Atlas doesn't jump between storylines each story is self contained but tied together. I can understand why they utilised the time shift but some characters looked preposterous in the makeup.


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## Vintage Paw (Aug 13, 2015)

*ignores spoilers*

Started watching this last night, watched the first two. Second episode was better than the first. Enjoying it so far. The opening theme is dark and ominous, which I like.


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## 8den (Aug 13, 2015)

Sorry VP I'll edit out the spoilers when I get home


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 13, 2015)

Vintage Paw said:


> *ignores spoilers*
> 
> Started watching this last night, watched the first two. Second episode was better than the first. Enjoying it so far. The opening theme is dark and ominous, which I like.



It gets better from that point, once you've got an idea who everyone is and they start to connect with each other.

I think the music is by Tom Tykwer, one of the co-directors of the show.


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## Vintage Paw (Aug 13, 2015)

8den said:


> Sorry VP I'll edit out the spoilers when I get home



It's ok, it wasn't a rebuke. I'm reasonably good at skipping over stuff I know might be spoilerish if I don't want to see it. Spoil away! I'll probably not take another look at the thread until I'm done with it.


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## lolo (Aug 17, 2015)

finished this yesterday; loved it. everyone giving it their all despite some hokey dialogue - looked fabulous and sexy and just great to see something on that scale on TV.


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## Jon-of-arc (Aug 17, 2015)

Just saw that they're doing a second season.  Can't wait.

Whilst I loved the shows more subtle aspects - the unpatronising way it dealt with "big themes" like sex, gender etc, the character development, the odd genuinely funny humorous bit, some really nice monologues - I'm really hoping that they up the action a little bit for the second season.  Not in an OTT way, as the Matrix chaps have done in the past (see Matrix sequels, in particular) but it just felt like they didn't quite have the budget for the actions scenes there were to be really exciting.  In particular, Nomi's car chase through San Francisco felt like it was just getting started when suddenly it ended, but there are other examples.  Hopefully Netflix will invest just that little bit more cash for series 2.


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## Jon-of-arc (Aug 17, 2015)

At the same time, I hope they keep any bigger action scenes as refreshingly minimal on the cgi as the first series was.


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## wayward bob (Aug 17, 2015)

re cgi - did you see the documentary? i loved the way they literally ducked out so the other actor could take their place. old school


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## Jon-of-arc (Aug 17, 2015)

wayward bob said:


> re cgi - did you see the documentary? i loved the way they literally ducked out so the other actor could take their place. old school



Yeah, I did watch that, and yeah, that really took me by surprise - it was so slickly done it felt like it must have been an effect, and yet it wasn't.


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## Mrs Miggins (Aug 18, 2015)

I just watched the episode with the multiple birth scene and was very moved by it. Fucking Icelandic musicians on E playing Beethoven. I found it a companion piece to the orgy. Fabulous!!
I'm quite blown away.

I've never seen anything quite like this.


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## Nanker Phelge (Aug 18, 2015)

It's ambitious, but no masterpiece, and I am enjoying, but some of the dialogue and acting is proper creaky...


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## Vintage Paw (Aug 22, 2015)

Up to episode 8 now. It's really good, I'm enjoying it a great deal.


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## Vintage Paw (Aug 24, 2015)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Season 2 looking likely
> 
> http://www.vcpost.com/articles/7945...-2-renewal-netflix-announcement-this-week.htm
> 
> ...



A 5 season arc?

*fans self*

This pleases me very, very much.

I just finished it, and watched the 'making of' short they did too. Absolutely loved the whole season. My faves were Sun, Lito and Capheus, but all of them were great really.

It really was a very 'grown up' series, without falling into the usual traps of trying to be gritty for the sake of it. It nailed the right balance between humour, warmth and danger, with just the right dose of wtf for good measure.


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## Vintage Paw (Aug 24, 2015)

One thing I liked was how it genuinely kept me guessing right until the last episode whether Jonas could be trusted or not. Usually you learn to recognise whether they're setting you up for a false twist/double twist or whatever, but this was really nicely done. It helped that he came across as genuinely untrustworthy and dodgy anyway (to me, at least).

I also liked that it kept a lot of things quite vague, letting you piece them together later on, or leaving it relatively unanswered, like just who that woman talking to Riley was, and where her allegiances lay.

And spangles is right on the money: it's a beautiful and powerful piece of LGBT- and feminist-positive television, without even once being overt about it. This is what television should be like.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 24, 2015)

the way a subscriber model consistently produces drama of high quality is an endorsment of socialism imo


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## Vintage Paw (Aug 24, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> the way a subscriber model consistently produces drama of high quality is an endorsment of socialism imo



I guess you could see it that way. Netflix are constantly under fire by those it licences from, to ensure it cracks down on vpn use, but there were also some hairy moments when net neutrality was in the balance, with their speed potentially being affected, which in turn would have necessarily led to far higher prices or a pricing tier structure. Thank god that didn't happen (yet).


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## Mrs Miggins (Aug 24, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> It's ambitious, but no masterpiece, and I am enjoying, but some of the dialogue and acting is proper creaky...


It's pretty good compared to e.g. New Tricks though eh?


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## Mrs Miggins (Aug 24, 2015)

I've just started Season 3 of American Horror Story and they've really up the ante on shocking imagery 
It's an absolute treat so far.
And Jessica Lange is fucking awesome AGAIN.


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## krtek a houby (Jan 26, 2016)

DotCommunist said:


> I can't say I'm that dissapointed, I'd rather a new series of the brit version
> 
> and agreed bob, Van Damn was great.



That's Amyl Ameen; who played PC Lewis some years back in The Bill!


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## Vintage Paw (Jan 27, 2016)

He doesn't look bloody old enough to have played a copper 'some years back'


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## Sea Star (Jan 27, 2016)

The best trans woman character I've ever seen on t.v. and with very recognisable TERF scenario too. and apart from that I really enjoyed the rest of it too, and I'm only slightly in love with Jamie Clayton, honest.


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## krtek a houby (Jan 28, 2016)

AuntiStella said:


> The best trans woman character I've ever seen on t.v. and with very recognisable TERF scenario too. and apart from that I really enjoyed the rest of it too, and I'm only slightly in love with Jamie Clayton, honest.



She's great. I loved the bicycle chase!


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## bi0boy (Mar 18, 2016)

2nd episode atm. Reminds me of Lost. In fact it could all be one of Sayid's flashbacks or something.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 17, 2016)

2 hour special on the 23rd, fans!


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## SpookyFrank (Dec 17, 2016)

Capheus has been recast


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 17, 2016)

SpookyFrank said:


> Capheus has been recast



What? Oh no  That's sad news. 

Edit: Just watched the trailer. Damn. That's going to be a difficult readjustment. The new guy seems to have an entirely different demeanor. Difficult to tell, I know, in a short trailer like that, but still... 

Do you know why?


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## DotCommunist (Dec 17, 2016)

'creative differences' says io9 blog


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 17, 2016)

Gosh. The nosy parker in me wants to know what that means. Sad times.


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## DotCommunist (Dec 17, 2016)

Deadline blog said:
			
		

> The circumstances behind Ameen’s exit are murky but sources indicate that there had been some sort of conflict between Ameen and _Sense8_co-creator/executive producer/director Lana Wachowski that flared up at the Season 2 table read in Berlin and worsened as filming progressed in India, leading to Ameen’s exit a couple of episodes in and the recasting of the role. Creative differences may have played a role in the departure.
> 
> Capheus “Van Damme,” which now will be played by Onwumere, is one of the main characters on _Sense8,_ a young Kenyan man living in Nairobi who is striving to earn money for his AIDS-stricken mother’s medication. He is one of eight strangers around the word  suddenly linked mentally and emotionally who are at the center of the sci-fi series created, written and executive-produced by Lilly and Lana Wachowski and J. Michael Straczynski. According to updates by cast members on social media, filming on Season 2 recently moved to Italy from India.


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## Vintage Paw (Dec 17, 2016)

Well how very dare they have creative differences and ruin my need for continuity. It's like _Roseanne_ all over again.


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## girasol (Jan 1, 2017)

Stopped watching after an hour, the Netflix special, it was awful. It lost its magic completely


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## Vintage Paw (Jan 1, 2017)

That's a shame. I'll still give it a go at some point. But that is a shame.


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## DotCommunist (May 5, 2017)

season 2 up in the usual places


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## Mr.Bishie (May 5, 2017)

Just watched first 2 hr ep of S2 - fucking awesome


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## joustmaster (May 6, 2017)

I watched the S02E01 on Friday, then was actually annoyed that I was off away for a holiday and couldn't watch the rest


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## snadge (May 6, 2017)

Just started watching S2 last night, now binged up to ep 6, awesomeness, really beautiful watching again.


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## Vintage Paw (May 6, 2017)

How's Capheus' new actor faring? Is the change jarring?


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## Mr.Bishie (May 6, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> How's Capheus' new actor faring? Is the change jarring?



Never even noticed tbh


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## Corax (May 25, 2017)

girasol said:


> Stopped watching after an hour, the Netflix special, it was awful. It lost its magic completely





Vintage Paw said:


> That's a shame. I'll still give it a go at some point. But that is a shame.


Heads up to not give up... 

I binged S01 and loved it.

I'm not sure I even managed to watch to the end of the special - I think I fell asleep at some point.  I sometimes do that even with good stuff when I'm hooked and watching til 03:00, but this wasn't... that.

After a wee pause, I've just started watching S02 and it's fucking awesome.  Halfway through S02E02 right now, and it's back to being the psychic version of the A-Team.  Hells yeah


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## Corax (May 25, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> How's Capheus' new actor faring? Is the change jarring?


IMVHO then initially, yeah.  I liked the last guy.  A couple of episodes in and I'd forgotten about it though - new fella's good too.


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## Mr.Bishie (May 27, 2017)

Just finished S2. Fucking awesome. That last episode was gripping. Looks like a long wait (summer 2019) before we get to see S3!


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## Corax (May 29, 2017)

Midway through S2 and have now developed a massive crush and decided that Tuppence Middleton has to marry me as soon as humanly possible.


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## bmd (May 29, 2017)

Loved Season 1 even though it took fucking ages to get going. I sort of felt like it was veering into Lost territory at one point, in a bad way but they just managed to career along that edge and then whip the wheel in at the last moment.

I feel like I need to revisit it before I start S2, or do they have a thing at the start to remind you?

Hello Corax *waves* are you on a night shift or something?


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## magneze (May 29, 2017)

There's a massive reminder of what happened before series 2.


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## DotCommunist (May 29, 2017)

and there needed to be as well. It was a while between series and in any case I wasn't 100% what was going on anyway.


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## Corax (May 29, 2017)

bmd said:


> Hello Corax *waves* are you on a night shift or something?


Wotcha mate.  No, just my usual late-night viewing!  Still unemployed and signed off with MH stuff atm. Meh.  Baby steps n'that innit.


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## bmd (May 29, 2017)

Corax said:


> Wotcha mate.  No, just my usual late-night viewing!  Still unemployed and signed off with MH stuff atm. Meh.  Baby steps n'that innit.



Yes it is. Very much so.


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## Artaxerxes (Jun 1, 2017)

And its cancelled.

Netflix cancels 'Sense8' after 2 seasons | TV Show Patrol



I enjoyed it but it was very ambitious and very expensively shot. I didn't much like the Christmas special and the last episode of S2 was very rushed but I admired its guts and its willingness to be innovative with the plot, as well as its focus on non-traditional actors and roles. Needed a few less set pieces and super slo mo orgies to tighten the episodes up and it could be a little self indulgent at times. 

Still better than most of the crap out there though, and for once there was no cast member I really could not stand. A rarity in most TV series that (its usually the main actor as well).


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## Mr.Bishie (Jun 1, 2017)

Bollocks!


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## joustmaster (Jun 1, 2017)

Arseholes


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## bendeus (Jun 1, 2017)

Absolutely gutted about this. Last episode of S2 was a bit disjointed and rushed but fuck, did it promise much. Awful decision.


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 2, 2017)

Very sad about this. I've just started watching S2.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 2, 2017)

and we're still waiting on Altered Carbon ya bastards


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 2, 2017)

Season 2 dragged a bit in places but I still enjoyed it. The whole final sequence of the last episode was fantastic so I suppose there could be worse ways to end it.

Netflix are really churning out original stuff at the moment, I wonder if money getting a bit tight is a factor in this getting cancelled. It certainly looks pretty ruinously expensive to make.


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## Crispy (Jun 2, 2017)

$9m per episode (up from $4.5 for season 1), which is incredibly expensive. Game of Thrones S6 and Westworld episodes cost $10m each, but they had far higher viewing numbers.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 2, 2017)

I wonder how many people watched it on Netflix and how many using piracy...


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## SpookyFrank (Jun 2, 2017)

joustmaster said:


> I wonder how many people watched it on Netflix and how many using piracy...



Game of thrones is still going and that's the most pirated tv show ever IIRC.


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## Artaxerxes (Jun 3, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Game of thrones is still going and that's the most pirated tv show ever IIRC.




Also got a shit ton of merchandising and publicity to recoup the price tag.


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## Corax (Jun 6, 2017)

Artaxerxes said:


> And its cancelled.


Twattery.

Maybe another network will pick it up.


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 29, 2017)

Aaaaaaaaaaaand it's back 

They've renewed it after the outcry.

Talking shit on twitter works, y'all.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 29, 2017)

Is this one of those series that you need to watch a few episodes of before you truly appreciate it?
I watched the first episode and thought it was shite, but felt the same about The Wire, Breaking Bad, Orange Is The New Black etc


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## Vintage Paw (Jun 29, 2017)

Orang Utan said:


> Is this one of those series that you need to watch a few episodes of before you truly appreciate it?
> I watched the first episode and thought it was shite, but felt the same about The Wire, Breaking Bad, Orange Is The New Black etc



Yeah, I think so. It takes a while to be introduced to everyone and for them to start to build up a rapport. It's the relationship they have to each other that's the main driving force. That and the mass orgies.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 29, 2017)

Vintage Paw said:


> Yeah, I think so. It takes a while to be introduced to everyone and for them to start to build up a rapport. It's the relationship they have to each other that's the main driving force. That and the mass orgies.


the mass orgies bit and what i've seen so far just remind me of those awful rave scenes in The Matrix Reloaded though.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 29, 2017)

it means more when you get the way they interact mind-link wise. And theres just so many beautiful shots


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## mango5 (Aug 5, 2017)

It is pretty but dull. Synchronised shagging meh. 
Has anyone noticed that the black character(still)  are missing from the Netflix title screen? Capheus “Van Damme” is invisible and speccy boyfriend is there instead (?)  I know they recast the character but updating the promo pic would have been very easy.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 8, 2018)

Finale is 2hrs30 mins!

Tbh, it would have worked with an hour shaved off it. Loose ends tied, some stand out set pieces and great locations. It's better than the "special" and there's a nice message to it all - it's in the title of the episode. Still think the first season was the best.


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## joustmaster (Jun 8, 2018)

Why is the finale on now?


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## krtek a houby (Jun 8, 2018)

joustmaster said:


> Why is the finale on now?



'cos the fans demanded it and they got it. Which is nice.


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