# Freeman-on-the-land idiocies



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

This dude has beaten the court system, and now doesn't pay council tax. How they got Andy Peters to do the commentry is beyond me 

he got a layman to represent him in court, it was thrown out within 15 minutes. Play them at their own game of loopholes and wankery. It fucking works.  (this is what I've been waiting for, for a looong time) 



There is NO LAW to say that you have to pay council tax, btw.


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## Crispy (Aug 5, 2010)

if everybody did this, they'd just put income tax up to cover the shortfall


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

again, income tax is the same thing. You need to give permission for consent to pay it. (basically, you say, yes I'll pay this with glee, every time you sign a form for it) Fuck them, and their law.  

Play them at their own game of legal loop holes and acutal LAW.


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## Jon-of-arc (Aug 5, 2010)

that just looks like someone making a tit of themselves with made up laws and shit.


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## gentlegreen (Aug 5, 2010)

So why is this a good thing ?


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## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2010)

petty venality dressed up as meaningful politics. What a legend, he gets to use everything we paid for collectively without giving back! Striking a blow for greed!


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

gentlegreen said:


> So why is this a good thing ?


 
it highlights that the "laws" that you live by, which are mainly goverment statutes and acts, mean fuck all if you don't want them too. Your consent is needed to obey them. If you do not consent, then the law can fuck off. This is the start of it. Many people think it's bullshit, but it's not, as this case shows. 

And to jon-of-arc, the only person making s tit out of themselves is the court clerk, and the majistrate, who abandoned the court


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## Combustible (Aug 5, 2010)

Someone needs to contact all those millionaires and tell them they need not bother with their expensive lawyers and accountants, all they have to do is get some nutter to act like a tit in court.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2010)

These people are an arguement for labour camps.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

lol.

So, you're quite happy to be fined for this that and the other, even though there is NO legal obligation to pay the fines or to even be classed as a crimal to be fined in the first place? that's odd.


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## Jon-of-arc (Aug 5, 2010)

FOTL is a farce - that video proved nothing.  Just a bunch of dicks showing themselves up as a bunch of dicks.  The guy was still being ordered to pay hiscouncil tax. as the letter at the end showed.  He won nothing.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> lol.
> 
> So, you're quite happy to be fined for this that and the other, even though there is NO legal obligation to pay the fines or to even be classed as a crimal to be fined in the first place? that's odd.


 

I don't pay council tax out of a legal obligation I pay it so that the nice men come round and take my rubbish away an build underpasses for the kiddies to get to school without getting run over and the men also empty the dogshit bins in the park and replace smashed up benches etc.

freeman of the land= right libertarian wanker. Randian twats.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

Only he doesn't pay any council tax, and is still a "freeman" so it's not bollocks. 

TFOL movement is gaining weight, like it or not. You can believe the lie told to you by those who want to use you as a cahscow, all you like. I like to think that there's a much better way of living. Away from the law sosciety. Which is a scam.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

So let me get this straight - a guy goes into court about council tax, comes out still having to pay it, and this is some kind of victory?


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

I just had a look at their website and it says this:



> provided you do not encroach on anyone else's freedom



Hmm. Since non-payment of CT leads to cuts in council services, I would say this guy is potentially encroaching on plenty of people's freedoms.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> I don't pay council tax out of a legal obligation I pay it so that the nice men come round and take my rubbish away an build underpasses for the kiddies to get to school without getting run over and the men also empty the dogshit bins in the park and replace smashed up benches etc.
> 
> freeman of the land= right libertarian wanker. Randian twats.


 
No, you're right. Your goverment know what's best, better just shut up and tow the line.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> So let me get this straight - a guy goes into court about council tax, comes out still having to pay it, and this is some kind of victory?


 
I'd bet that he's still not paying it. Like John Harris isn't. Mr "no contract"


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## Yossarian (Aug 5, 2010)

Even Judge Jazzz would probably laugh this Freeman crap out of court.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> No, you're right. Your goverment know what's best, better just shut up and tow the line.


 
Well, if we all stop paying taxes, I hope you're paying for me to go to hospital if I get ill.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Well, if we all stop paying taxes, I hope you're paying for me to go to hospital if I get ill.


 
I will wave my hands over you if you get ill


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> I just had a look at their website and it says this:
> 
> 
> 
> Hmm. Since non-payment of CT leads to cuts in council services, I would say this guy is potentially encroaching on plenty of people's freedoms.


 no, the stupid "laws" do that, the jobs they hold do that. He's not encroaching on anyones freedom by taking a stand,and being accountable for his own actions.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

The thing is, I appreciate the basic argument - that taxation should be paid on the basis of consent from the payer, not coercion from the payee, but that's just not gonna happen, and if you actually want things like a welfare state, you pay tax.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> The thing is, I appreciate the basic argument - that taxation should be paid on the basis of consent from the payer, not coercion from the payee, but that's just not gonna happen, and if you actually want things like a welfare state, you pay tax.


 
I guess people who oppose taxation as it is, would be more inclined to want to pay it, if our tax money wasn't spent on wars, and getting rich people even richer.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> no, the stupid "laws" do that, the jobs they hold do that. He's not encroaching on anyones freedom by taking a stand,and being accountable for his own actions.


 
If services are cut as a result of people not paying their CT, they're cut because there's no money. In doing so, he and others like him will encroach on others' freedom.

I've seen you arguing about the rich and their tax avoidance schemes being cunts, and this is no different.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2010)

the subtext to the Freeman shit isn't tht you resent the government but that you resent having to pay taxes for shit like kids schooling when you got no kids, medical care for others when you are mr. healthy, road tax when you don't drive.

It really isn't last free man stuff. As much as it is dressed up in the rhetoric of anti oppression it is simply 'petite bourgeois dissidence' and venality. freedom has to be universal, your john galt making a stand on fucking council tax is just a r/w nutter.


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## Combustible (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> I guess people who oppose taxation as it is, would be more inclined to want to pay it, if our tax money wasn't spent on wars, and getting rich people even richer.


 
I'd guess thats bollocks in the vast majority of cases.  How much council tax is spent on wars?


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> I guess people who oppose taxation as it is, would be more inclined to want to pay it, if our tax money wasn't spent on wars, and getting rich people even richer.


 
Right, and those who think everyone on the dole is a scrounger and that the NHS is a waste of money, they shouldn't have to pay tax either?


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## tarannau (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> . I like to think that there's a much better way of living. Away from the law sosciety. Which is a scam.


 






You're running from the professional body representing solicitors? Ooh, scary - they're like the Mafia with occasional wigs




What, a


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

Combustible said:


> I'd guess thats bollocks in the vast majority of cases.  How much council tax is spent on wars?


 
do we sepperate car tax/food tax/ council tax and spend it on different things then? Or does it just go into one big kitty for the rich to plunder as they see fit? 

I'd be happyfor an income based tax, a fair one. And that's it. I'd be happy if we weren't all made to pay for shit that we have no interest in, and vehimently oppose. (like way, war against drugs/prostitution, you name it) I'd be happy if the system was fair, but it's corrupt and screwed beyond comprehension. 

It's funny. I'd have thought that lawful descent would have gone down well on a predominatly left wing website. Seems I was wrong, and people love being shafted from every single angle. Lube up boys and girls, here comes another length!!


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

tarannau said:


> You're running from the professional body representing solicitors? Ooh, scary - they're like the Mafia with occasional wigs
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 You are a part of the law society. You are a member of it, just by having a birth certificate.


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## fogbat (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> No, you're right. Your goverment know what's best, better just shut up and tow the line.


 
I love that whenever this sort of shit comes up, you think that's the only other option.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

fogbat said:


> I love that whenever this sort of shit comes up, you think that's the only other option.


 
give me some more then...... I'm all ears.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> do we sepperate car tax/food tax/ council tax and spend it on different things then? Or does it just go into one big kitty for the rich to plunder as they see fit?
> 
> I'd be happyfor an income based tax, a fair one. And that's it. I'd be happy if we weren't all made to pay for shit that we have no interest in, and vehimently oppose. (like way, war against drugs/prostitution, you name it) I'd be happy if the system was fair, but it's corrupt and screwed beyond comprehension.
> 
> It's funny. I'd have thought that lawful descent would have gone down well on a predominatly left wing website. Seems I was wrong, and people love being shafted from every single angle. Lube up boys and girls, here comes another length!!



This is no more lawful dissent than a rich man paying PWC to move his profits to an offshore company.

If you want a discussion on hypothecated taxes (which is where you get to pick where your tax ££s go) fine, but don't confuse that with this nonsense.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2010)

oh and as I have pointed out on other Freeman bullshit threads the semantic quibbling of some tosser with a r/w anarchist (lol) perspective doesn't generally hold much sway with the state. The beautifully naive idea that they'll play by the rules actually reveals quite a pathetic trust in the state you claim to be rejecting.


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## Combustible (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> do we sepperate car tax/food tax/ council tax and spend it on different things then? Or does it just go into one big kitty for the rich to plunder as they see fit?



Council tax goes funnily enough primarily to councils.  How many wars do they wage?


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

Combustible said:


> Council tax goes funnily enough primarily to councils.  How many wars do they wage?


 
where does "war tax" come from then? is there a specific kitty for it?


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> This is no more lawful dissent than a rich man paying PWC to move his profits to an offshore company.


 I dissagree, this is the start of lawful descent, or at least a part of it. When the taxes are unlawful, and you stop paying them.....


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> where does "war tax" come from then? is there a specific kitty for it?


 

Yes, it's called 'Income Tax', VAT, Corporation Tax. In fact it's the tax that's collected by HMRC, not your local council.

You do know the local/national split in taxation, and how that's spent, don't you?


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

not really, no. All I know is the basic that I need to know. Right vrs wrong. 

They are ripping us off, and it is wrong. End of story. If the system wasn't fucked, there'd be no problem. But it's fucked, completly. It's biased, and it's to keep us all in line. Well fuck that I say. Fuck them, and their law.


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## Combustible (Aug 5, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> oh and as I have pointed out on other Freeman bullshit threads the semantic quibbling of some tosser with a r/w anarchist (lol) perspective doesn't generally hold much sway with the state. The beautifully naive idea that they'll play by the rules actually reveals quite a pathetic trust in the state you claim to be rejecting.


 
It's really quite a reactionary idea common with conspiraloons.  It relies on a benevolent judiciary waiting to implement old and just common law. But in modern times malevolent forces appear to have brainwashed us into accepting oppresive evils such as income tax.  However common law can be restored to primacy by some ritualistic semantic bollocks which will be accepted by judges who retain noble instincts.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2010)

xes, ffs put down the RATM album and read the god damned manifesto.


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## fogbat (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> give me some more then...... I'm all ears.


 
A notable one has been your "_If you don't believe any old crap spouted by idiots like Alex Jones, then you wholeheartedly swallow anything said by the Murdoch media machine, and those are the only two options_" argument.


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## gentlegreen (Aug 5, 2010)

I vote we give Xes two acres, a shed and a pig and let him get on with it.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> not really, no. All I know is the basic that I need to know. Right vrs wrong.
> 
> They are ripping us off, and it is wrong. End of story. If the system wasn't fucked, there'd be no problem. But it's fucked, completly. It's biased, and it's to keep us all in line. Well fuck that I say. Fuck them, and their law.


 
I look forward to your commentary on this when HMRC take you to court and lock you up for non-payment of VAT or income tax.

This is the equivalent of saying that builders who do cash in hand work, or black cabbies who only declare the HMRC estimate on their income as real, are tax rebels. 

You still haven't responded to the point that if someone who thinks everyone on the dole is a scrounger is justified in not paying tax either. I mean they feel the same way about tax as you, only instead of the army, they don't like paying to support the welfare state.


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## SpookyFrank (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm surprised the coppers played along tbh.


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## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> if everybody did this, they'd just put income tax up to cover the shortfall


 
Which would be a fuck of a lot fairer than Council Tax.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

fogbat said:


> A notable one has been your "_If you don't believe any old crap spouted by idiots like Alex Jones, then you wholeheartedly swallow anything said by the Murdoch media machine, and those are the only two options_" argument.


 
 isthat a direct quote, or are you miaking up bullshit and putting words/beliefs in my mouth? 

re- gentle green. FUCK YES!! Give it to me baby


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> I look forward to your commentary on this when HMRC take you to court and lock you up for non-payment of VAT or income tax.


 
Alas I'm a pussy at heart, and I'll be waiting for a few more court cases to be won before I jump on this bandwagon. But jump on and drop out I will. As soon as I can. The very fucking second i can drop out of this society for real, the better.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2010)

gentlegreen said:


> I vote we give Xes two acres, a shed and a pig and let him get on with it.



fine, so long as he is happy to be denied any access to piped water, electricity, health care and education for his kids.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'm surprised the coppers played along tbh.


 
they didn't have a choice, they were acting within the "law" because this is right, we can all do this. Shake the fuckers up, it's high time they got a reality check.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

DotCommunist said:


> fine, so long as he is happy to be denied any access to piped water, electricity, health care and education for his kids.


 

Again, bring it on. The education system is a fucking joke anyway, I wish to god I'd never gone through it to be honest. Electricity can be sourced elsewhere, as can water. Healthcare, I'll just wave my hands over any cancer/aids I get


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> Alas I'm a pussy at heart, and I'll be waiting for a few more court cases to be won before I jump on this bandwagon. But jump on and drop out I will. As soon as I can. The very fucking second i can drop out of this society for real, the better.


 
Don't get ill or injured then!


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## Crispy (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> Again, bring it on. The education system is a fucking joke anyway, I wish to god I'd never gone through it to be honest. Electricity can be sourced elsewhere, as can water. Healthcare, I'll just wave my hands over any cancer/aids I get


 

piped water, electricity, health care

do me a favour


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2010)

So he still has to pay council tax? (surprise) This seems like a bit of a misleading thread title then.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

I intend to stay well healthy, taa  (and anyway, I can still get healthcare if i want to pay for it "in hypothetical situations such as this* )


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> So he still has to pay council tax? (surprise) This seems like a bit of a misleading thread title then.


 
betchya any money he doesn't do it though. And he's going to get away with it.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

ymu said:


> Which would be a fuck of a lot fairer than Council Tax.


 
Yeah, beacuse it would be the top rate of income tax, not the bottom rate, or VAT, that went up. Definitely.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2010)

Combustible said:


> It's really quite a reactionary idea common with conspiraloons.  It relies on a benevolent judiciary waiting to implement old and just common law. But in modern times malevolent forces appear to have brainwashed us into accepting oppresive evils such as income tax.  However common law can be restored to primacy by some ritualistic semantic bollocks which will be accepted by judges who retain noble instincts.



yep, and it displays the same naive belief that people have in the old 12 men good and true. My antipathy towards juries in general is probably a bit arguable though.

Freeman of the land, pah. Such bollocks. It is gross anti-statism which is in turn anti-society. Find somewhere else to play rugged individual you cockwpes.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> piped water, electricity, health care
> 
> do me a favour


 You can still pay for things you want/neede. By paying a water bill, you're not paying council tax, you're paying a company to supply your water. That is a choice you have decided to make. Not an enforced tax. You can by solar pannels, water butts.


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## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> So he still has to pay council tax? (surprise) This seems like a bit of a misleading thread title then.


 
Odd that the judgement was signed before the case started though, no?

I'm a fan of tax, but not of how the burden of it is distributed primarily onto the poor. Nor am I a fan of how the court system works, or how difficult it is for someone with ordinary means to access it when _they_ need justice.

The FTOL might be a load of right-wing bollocks, but there's some important issues raised in that vid.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

Wasn't something like this Wesley Snipes defence in his recent court case? Attempting to use the 'Unlawful Taxes' clause in the constitution to avoid paying federal income taxes? And who got 3 years for it?


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## fogbat (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> isthat a direct quote, or are you miaking up bullshit and putting words/beliefs in my mouth?


 


It's not a direct quote, no. But it's definitely an argument you've made on several occasions.


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> betchya any money he doesn't do it though. And he's going to get away with it.


 
He won't get away with it. Nobody ever does with this stuff, though sometimes they manage to keep the cases going for years.

Anyway it still looks misleading. What was the actual court case that he won, if he won a court case?


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

fogbat said:


> It's not a direct quote, no. But it's definitely an argument you've made on several occasions.


 
Which is a odd thing to state, considering I think Alex Jones is a bit of a loudmouthed cunt. Or are you putting words /beliefs in my mouth? (I think the answer to that is yes btw)


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> He won't get away with it. Nobody ever does with this stuff, though sometimes they manage to keep the cases going for years.
> 
> Anyway it still looks misleading. What was the actual court case that he won, if he won a court case?


 We'll wait and see on your first point i guess. But if this case wasn't won from a layman POV, then it certainly wasn't won from the courts POV. The case was apparently done and dealt with 2 hours before it started  Why was nobody arrested for contempt of court? Why, becasue no crime has been committed, and everything done in that video was well within the law.


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## junglevip (Aug 5, 2010)

Correct me if I am wrong but the point to me seems he avoided paying a tax that he did not agree with.  Is it not possible that a white collar criminal who is creaming off vast sums of money in comparison with the best legal teams; have been at this for years but has not been publicised.

Further more, the reason there were riots in the streets about this tax was because the tax is unfair and has little to do with maintaining societies fabric.  Nobody would object to paying into a fair system.  Unless of course you have more of everything than everyone else as a result of such a system


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> We'll wait and see on your first point i guess. But if this case wasn't won from a layman POV, then it certainly wasn't won from the courts POV. The case was apparently done and dealt with 2 hours before it started  Why was nobody arrested for contempt of court? Why, becasue no crime has been committed, and everything done in that video was well within the law.


 
I can't watch the video. So what you're saying is that he didn't win some unidentified court case?


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## fogbat (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> Which is a odd thing to state, considering I think Alex Jones is a bit of a loudmouthed cunt. Or are you putting words /beliefs in my mouth? (I think the answer to that is yes btw)


 
Hmm. Might not have been Alex Jones. It was certainly someone of that calibre. 

I'll try to dig the posts out later on, and see whether I remembered it correctly.


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## gentlegreen (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> You can still pay for things you want/neede. By paying a water bill, you're not paying council tax, you're paying a company to supply your water. That is a choice you have decided to make. Not an enforced tax. You can by solar pannels, water butts.


 
Will they take turnips / bacon as payment ?

The thing is, opting out of taxes you don't like is only the tip of the iceberg.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

> Further more, the reason there were riots in the streets about this tax was because the tax is unfair and has little to do with maintaining societies fabric. Nobody would object to paying into a fair system. Unless of course you have more of everything than everyone else as a result of such a system



That was the _Poll Tax_. The Council Tax was basically a return to the old 'rates' system of having the amount you paid based on the value of your property, not every individual in your household over 18 paying separately.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> I can't watch the video. So what you're saying is that he didn't win some unidentified court case?


 
Court clerk stated that the layman had no right taking in court, layman stated that as he was already standing when he came in, then the clerk had NO juristiction. All defendants remained seated (again, giving no juristiction to the court clerk) The legal "person" present was a birth certificate. Magistrates fucked off, and wouldn't give written constent for the court to be disbanded. (after 3 or 4 asks) The layman eventually dissmissed his people, and noone was arrested, even though security was called for contempt of court. This was certainly not a win for the court.


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

gentlegreen said:


> Will they take turnips / bacon as payment ?


 
Yes. Goods or services. Butthat's missing the point. You can still work, as when you sign a contract of employment, you are agreeing to work for said company under their rules. You can still have cash, you can still use stuff at your leasure. (there is no law to say the public have to pay council tax to use public convinieces ect) 

And for who ever said this is right wing, fuck right off  This about as right wing, as the left wing of a left handed aeroplane.


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## Santino (Aug 5, 2010)

If the system is so fucked and corrupt, why don't the judges just put him in prison?


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## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2010)

That sounds more like "court ignores somebody's case because they were fucking about" to me. Winning would imply that he took a case to court and got a legal judgement in his favour.


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## junglevip (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> That was the _Poll Tax_. The Council Tax was basically a return to the old 'rates' system of having the amount you paid based on the value of your property, not every individual in your household over 18 paying separately.



Semantics; its hardly a fair system.  There are low paid working people in my village paying the same as the multi millionaires who live here who own several properties.


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## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2010)

it is completely and totally right wing, gross individualist nonsense. Don't conflate a desire to stand apart from a system as left wing- it certainly isn't when you are doing it to get out of paying fucking council tax. The small minded nuttery of a green inker who resents paying tax. Such a whining philosophy of faux-rebellion. Tosspots.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

junglevip said:


> Semantics; its hardly a fair system.  There are low paid working people in my village paying the same as the multi millionaires who live here who own several properties.


 
Because they live in properties that are valued the same. Presumably the millionaires have the tenants in their homes paying the council tax on them. And it's not semantics, council and poll tax are completely different ways of raising revenue.


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## junglevip (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Because they live in properties that are valued the same. Presumably the millionaires have the tenants in their homes paying the council tax on them. And it's not semantics, council and poll tax are completely different ways of raising revenue.



The houses in question are council owned houses.  You are not addressing the point of fairness.


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## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

What, so the council houses round your way are worth as much as the millionaire houses?


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## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

One question. if this was all bullshit, then why wasn't the layman arrested? if you're in contempt of court, they will just arrest you (if you give them that right) So why has this not happened here, what's different?


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## junglevip (Aug 5, 2010)

What, so the council houses round your way are worth as much as the millionaire houses

According to you yes.

Presumably the millionaires have the tenants in their homes paying the council tax on them

That is a presumption.  In some cases not

B


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## Blagsta (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> Yes. Goods or services. Butthat's missing the point. You can still work, as when you sign a contract of employment, you are agreeing to work for said company under their rules. You can still have cash, you can still use stuff at your leasure. (there is no law to say the public have to pay council tax to use public convinieces ect)
> 
> And for who ever said this is right wing, fuck right off  This about as right wing, as the left wing of a left handed aeroplane.



That's a classic free market (right wing) argument you cock.


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## Blagsta (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> One question. if this was all bullshit, then why wasn't the layman arrested? if you're in contempt of court, they will just arrest you (if you give them that right) So why has this not happened here, what's different?


 
They don't always.  It's called discretion.


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## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> What, so the council houses round your way are worth as much as the millionaire houses?


 
Because the upper banding stops at a ridiculously low level?

Surprising, I know ...


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

junglevip said:


> > What, so the council houses round your way are worth as much as the millionaire houses
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well no, I'm not saying that, you are. Council tax contributions are calculated on the value of your property, taken in 1991 and are in bands. You said:



> There are low paid working people in my village paying the same as the multi millionaires who live here who own several properties.



So I can only assume that the value of council housing in your area is on a par with the value of the millionaire houses, if they're paying the same amount in council tax.


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

Blagsta said:


> That's a classic free market (right wing) argument you cock.


 
I'm soooo right wing, I'd better go join the BNP  You cock.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm certainly happy to entertain the general notion that council tax is unfair. There are however different motivations for this. I don't think that a lot of bank charges are fair, but if somebody came along saying that they weren't going to pay bank charges because the Jews owned the banks and a true Christian didn't have to pay a Jew by the Sod The Jews Act 1687, I would not be standing up there to support them, and they wouldn't win either.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> I'm soooo right wing, I'd better go join the BNP  You cock.


 
You're arguing classic right wing arguments.  Note I said right wing, not far right.  You're arguing a classic free market individualist line.  If you weren't so wilfully thick, you'd know it too.


----------



## junglevip (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Well no, I'm not saying that, you are. Council tax contributions are calculated on the value of your property, taken in 1991 and are in bands. You said:
> 
> 
> 
> So I can only assume that the value of council housing in your area is on a par with the value of the millionaire houses, if they're paying the same amount in council tax.


 
You are not addressing the point of fairness.  You are making assumptions.  My presumption is that your presumption does not stand up to scrutiny.  I have no idea of house prices in north Dorset; I suspect that you don't either.


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

ymu said:


> Because the upper banding stops at a ridiculously low level?
> 
> Surprising, I know ...


 
Currently £320K in the England, based on the 1991 value of a property.

The revaluation that was supposed to happen in England in 2007 didn't. Prices in Wales _were_ revalued (and led to the introduction of Band I), and the indexing of value/band stayed the same - I.e if your property was Band A, and remained within the Band A value range, there was no change.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> I'm soooo right wing, I'd better go join the BNP  You cock.


 
"right wing" doesn't have to mean racist/nationalist. you seem to delight in being underinformed.


----------



## junglevip (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Currently £320K in the England, based on the 1991 value of a property.
> 
> The revaluation that was supposed to happen in England in 2007 didn't. Prices in Wales _were_ revalued (and led to the introduction of Band I), and the indexing of value/band stayed the same - I.e if your property was Band A, and remained within the Band A value range, there was no change.



I am refering to my village not England.


----------



## 8den (Aug 5, 2010)

Just you are thick as pigshite Xes.


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

junglevip said:


> You are not addressing the point of fairness.  You are making assumptions.  My presumption is that your presumption does not stand up to scrutiny.  I have no idea of house prices in north Dorset; I suspect that you don't either.


 
I'm not making assumptions. You're saying that a council house is worth as much as a millionaire house, and that they're in the same council tax band. Therefore someone in a council house is paying the same as the millionaire. I'd like you to provide some evidence of this claim.


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

junglevip said:


> I am refering to my village not England.


 
Your village is in England, yes?


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

8den said:


> Just you are thick as pigshite Xes.


 
You can go kill youself. Seriously, I'd laugh if there were ever a thread to say that you'd died. Only person I've ever said that to outside of the police.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2010)

you're not thick, you're just ignorant


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Currently £320K in the England, based on the 1991 value of a property.
> 
> The revaluation that was supposed to happen in England in 2007 didn't. Prices in Wales _were_ revalued (and led to the introduction of Band I), and the indexing of value/band stayed the same - I.e if your property was Band A, and remained within the Band A value range, there was no change.


 
Which would adequately explain why council house tenants in some areas are paying the same as millionaires, no?


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

This thread seems to be all about xes. Well done chaps.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2010)

ymu said:


> This thread seems to be all about xes. Well done chaps.


 
tbf, the actual subject matter was dealt with quite sufficiently in the earliest posts


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> you're not thick, you're just ignorant


 
He's wilfully ignorant, he revels in it.  That's somewhere close to thick in my book.


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

ymu said:


> Which would adequately explain why council house tenants in some areas are paying the same as millionaires, no?


 
Yes. If they were in a Band A property as valued in 1991.


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Yes. If they were in a Band A property as valued in 1991.


Band H. A £320k house pays the same as a £2 million house.

Band A is £40k. Quite a bit less.


----------



## junglevip (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> I'm not making assumptions. You're saying that a council house is worth as much as a millionaire house, and that they're in the same council tax band. Therefore someone in a council house is paying the same as the millionaire. I'd like you to provide some evidence of this claim.





kyser_soze said:


> Because they live in properties that are valued the same. Presumably the millionaires have the tenants in their homes paying the council tax on them. And it's not semantics, council and poll tax are completely different ways of raising revenue



I would like yout to prove it to me.  Including your presumtions as you are making theses claims


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> tbf, the actual subject matter was dealt with quite sufficiently in the earliest posts


 
How was it deatl with? By people trying to loudly shout it's all bollocks? With NO proof what so ever? Yeah, that dealt with lots of stuff  All that has been given as "proof" that the FOTL movement is bollocks, is peoples opinions. That's a fact.


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> tbf, the actual subject matter was dealt with quite sufficiently in the earliest posts


 
Were they? I didn't approve of the fuel tax protests, but I liked what they did. I don't have to approve of this action to think the issues are worth discussing.

But xes started the thread, so it is ruined on principle. Crap.


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

ymu said:


> This thread seems to be all about xes. Well done chaps.


 
That's how these battles are "won"  People try and belittle who ever they dissagree with until they go away. Seen it a thousand times before, and I'll see it a thousand times again.


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

ymu said:


> But xes started the thread, so it is ruined on principle. Crap.


 Nail.On.Head.

And I'm the ignorant one


----------



## junglevip (Aug 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> tbf, the actual subject matter was dealt with quite sufficiently in the earliest posts



I am out of here too... Byeee... .. .


----------



## cesare (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> One question. if this was all bullshit, then why wasn't the layman arrested? if you're in contempt of court, they will just arrest you (if you give them that right) So why has this not happened here, what's different?


 

Because the Court hadn't been convened (so there was no contempt of it). The only court that had been convened (by the Layman) was a common law court. Well, that's what it looked like to me, but I'm not a lawyer.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2010)

Quite - no case was won
On the larger issue "you can ignore the law if you don't consent to it" - well I hate to say it, but they hold the big stick and no amount of clever words will beat the big stick


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

I have a pencil sharpener. I will eventually beat the stick.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2010)

what?


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

I don't know, it sounded profound


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Quite - no case was won
> On the larger issue "you can ignore the law if you don't consent to it" - well I hate to say it, but they hold the big stick and no amount of clever words will beat the big stick


 
So just roll over and take it? 

This action has implications well beyond non-payment of CT, and raises some issues which would normally be of concern to urban - like a court judgement signed at 10am when the court did not attempt to convene until 12.30pm. And the general issue of the structural unfairness of CT banding which maxes out at £320k. How odd, to find a tax system so blatantly in favour of the rich. But it's not really the sort of topic we indulge on urban, I realise that ...


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

ymu said:


> So just roll over and take it?


 
The only thing worse than evil people, are those who will do nothing to stop it.


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

Silence is complicity, anger is an energy, noone is illegal but apathy ought to be.


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

Ymu - Thread Quality Control Mistress

I couldn't comment on the video as vimeo gave me a 404 error.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 5, 2010)

YOU won't find me arguing in favour of CT and other regressive taxes, but you also won't find me arguing against all taxation and in favour of living without any state services whatsoever. Living "on the land" is fine if you're healthy and wealthy.


----------



## cesare (Aug 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> Quite - no case was won
> On the larger issue "you can ignore the law if you don't consent to it" - well I hate to say it, but they hold the big stick and no amount of clever words will beat the big stick


 
Well, it depends on whether the Layman had the right to demand that the case was heard at common law; I guess that's the issue. 

If I understand it correctly, the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 quite clearly state that a magistrates court has power of enforcement. I don't know why the magistrates didn't just provide him with the oath info, then state clearly that the guy would be re-summonsed, or something along those lines. And if they wanted to challenge the jurisdictional point they could go ahead and do so at the hearing.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> How was it deatl with? By people trying to loudly shout it's all bollocks? With NO proof what so ever? Yeah, that dealt with lots of stuff  All that has been given as "proof" that the FOTL movement is bollocks, is peoples opinions. That's a fact.


 
Well, he hasn't won any court case and he still has to pay the tax.

You want to be careful - you're in a box there you know. Four corners.


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> YOU won't find me arguing in favour of CT and other regressive taxes, but you also won't find me arguing against all taxation and in favour of living without any state services whatsoever. Living "on the land" is fine if you're healthy and wealthy.


 
Anyone in this thread arguing against all taxation? I'm not. 

I'd like to se an end to goverment, and an end to the monetary system. As we don't need them anymore.


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Well, he hasn't won any court case and he still has to pay the tax.
> 
> You want to be careful - you're in a box there you know. Four corners.


 
The court hasn't won either, and a tenner to the server fund* says he never pays CT again.

*on top of my subscription....


----------



## junglevip (Aug 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> YOU won't find me arguing in favour of CT and other regressive taxes, but you also won't find me arguing against all taxation and in favour of living without any state services whatsoever. Living "on the land" is fine if you're healthy and wealthy.


 
A perfect system is what is required; I doubt there is such a thing. A fairer system would be a good start.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> The court hasn't won either, and a tenner to the server fund* says he never pays CT again.
> 
> *on top of my subscription....


 
Anybody can *not pay their council tax*, that isn't hard. I could go and cancel my DD right now. Some people avoid paying it for ages, too. It doesnt mean a lot unless there's actually somebody somewhere saying "you don't have to pay your council tax because you came up with this magic legal spell, Mr Potter".


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

Crispy said:


> you also won't find me arguing against all taxation and in favour of living without any state services whatsoever


 
You don't have to.


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Ymu - Thread Quality Control Mistress
> 
> I couldn't comment on the video as vimeo gave me a 404 error.


 
Ooh, a well thought out and not at all glib response from kyser. How astonishing.


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Anybody can *not pay their council tax*, that isn't hard. I could go and cancel my DD right now. Some people avoid paying it for ages, too. It doesnt mean a lot unless there's actually somebody somewhere saying "you don't have to pay your council tax because you came up with this magic legal spell, Mr Potter".


 
Will you "get away"* with it in court, without the method in the video? 

*ok, he hasn't got away with it so far, but it's first blood to the freeman. (and aslong as he plays it right, that's how it'll stay)


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

ymu said:


> Ooh, a well thought out and not at all glib response from kyser. How astonishing.


 
I'm not the one waving my metaphorical hands around going 'But these are the _real_ issues! We should be discussing _these_ things!'


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

We're not liable to pay Council Tax. I am still interested in the issues raised here, about the courts behaviour and the unfairness of the tax itself.

It seems noone else is ...


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> I'm not the one waving my metaphorical hands around going 'But these are the _real_ issues! We should be discussing _these_ things!'


 
You do realise that I'm not saying that "these are the real issues" and that we should only be discussing these sorts of thing? I've started about 2 trheads on the FOTL subject in my 10 years of being here. Your logic is not only utterly floored, but it makes you look as thick as you think I look. Please stop putting words and thoughts in my mouth. It makes you look silly(er than me)


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> I'm not the one waving my metaphorical hands around going 'But these are the _real_ issues! We should be discussing _these_ things!'


 
Says the man who didn't watch the video but still knows everything there is to know.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> Will you "get away"* with it in court, without the method in the video?
> 
> *ok, he hasn't got away with it so far, but it's first blood to the freeman. (and aslong as he plays it right, that's how it'll stay)


 
He hasn't in any sense won anything at all. Nothing whatsoever has happened. He is still just as liable as he was previously. All it is is somebody wasting time.


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

ymu said:


> Says the man who didn't watch the video but still knows everything there is to know.


 
and this is the mark of what we call in the trade, psuedo skeptisism. No knowledge of a subject, but I'll try and belittle you out of it anyway, by trying to claim that you're thick ect. i wonder how many people on here who'ce called me thick or ignorant, have watched it.


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> and this is the mark of what we call in the trade, psuedo skeptisism. No knowledge of a subject, but I'll try and belittle you out of it anyway, by trying to claim that you're thick ect. i wonder how many people on here who'ce called me thick or ignorant, have watched it.


 
Just pseud will do in this case.


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

FridgeMagnet said:


> He hasn't in any sense won anything at all. Nothing whatsoever has happened. He is still just as liable as he was previously. All it is is somebody wasting time.


 
That will be the view of somebody who is looking at it from a "law society" POV. But this is a massive landmark case for what is yet to come. Noone else would have got away with what they did, in court (unless they woz a coppah) And you know it. You can go try it if you like, let me know how you get on


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

CT _is_ unfair, and the old Lib-Dem approach of a national contribution from income tax was potentially a better way forward (on the assumption that the structure of the national income tax was balanced to reflect total wealth income so the rich paid their share of tax based on share of total national wealth). Another way to make CT fairer would be to do banding revaluations on a more frequent basis (and it'd be a piece of piss since the data by postcode is available online), and/or introduce more bands at the top end and take more in contributions from the rich. 

I can't comment on the court's behaviour as I can't see the video, but for all we know, this is something those magistrates have had to deal with on a number of occassions, and it's at the point of being a nuisance claim - who knows? We dont'. We've got a few minutes of partial video footage that not everyone can see.


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

To be fair, it was good to see a copper behaving himself and refusing to intervene.


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> You do realise that I'm not saying that "these are the real issues" and that we should only be discussing these sorts of thing? I've started about 2 trheads on the FOTL subject in my 10 years of being here. Your logic is not only utterly floored, but it makes you look as thick as you think I look. Please stop putting words and thoughts in my mouth. It makes you look silly(er than me)


 
Hmm. Did you see who I quoted in my post? Here's a hint - _it wasn't you._


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

ymu said:


> To be fair, it was good to see a copper behaving himself and refusing to intervene.


 
Yeah, they sat back and watched. I think they all learnt something about the legal system that day  i was expecting some rough justice. Them coppahs weren't cunts. (but I never wrote that, nor thought that   )


----------



## gentlegreen (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Another way to make CT fairer would be to do banding revaluations on a more frequent basis (and it'd be a piece of piss since the data by postcode is available online), and/or introduce more bands at the top end and take more in contributions from the rich. .



So if I'm retired and they improve the area I'm living in that boosts property prices, I have to pay more in local taxes ?


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> CT _is_ unfair, and the old Lib-Dem approach of a national contribution from income tax was potentially a better way forward (on the assumption that the structure of the national income tax was balanced to reflect total wealth income so the rich paid their share of tax based on share of total national wealth). Another way to make CT fairer would be to do banding revaluations on a more frequent basis (and it'd be a piece of piss since the data by postcode is available online), and/or introduce more bands at the top end and take more in contributions from the rich.
> 
> I can't comment on the court's behaviour as I can't see the video, but for all we know, this is something those magistrates have had to deal with on a number of occassions, and it's at the point of being a nuisance claim - who knows? We dont'. We've got a few minutes of partial video footage that not everyone can see.


 
There's nothing much to see about the court's behaviour on the video that hasn't been reported here. The key issue being that the judgement was signed 2.5 hours before the case started. That would appear to be a matter of some concern, which goes far beyond CT and the specifics of this particular case.


----------



## cesare (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> That will be the view of somebody who is looking at it from a "law society" POV. But this is a massive landmark case for what is yet to come. Noone else would have got away with what they did, in court (unless they woz a coppah) And you know it. You can go try it if you like, let me know how you get on


 
How can it be a landmark case? There was no precedent created.


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Hmm. Did you see who I quoted in my post? Here's a hint - _it wasn't you._


 
SAo who is the one wavbing metaphysical hands about the place? I mean, the majority of slurs on this thread (if not all) are in my direction, so why wasn't that one? I don't think I've seen ymu saying that we should have to discuss these subjects and NO OTHERZ !!11ONE


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> That will be the view of somebody who is looking at it from a "law society" POV. But this is a massive landmark case for what is yet to come. Noone else would have got away with what they did, in court (unless they woz a coppah) And you know it. You can go try it if you like, let me know how you get on


 
I can try to not get a court to rule in my favour, and to make no difference to anything? I can do that right here sitting on my arse. Look, I've done it! And again!


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

cesare said:


> How can it be a landmark case? There was no precedent created.


 
YET, slowly slowly catchy monkey. This is all legal, and lawful descent. We can all learn from it.


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 5, 2010)

> Anyone in this thread arguing against all taxation? I'm not.





xes said:


> again, income tax is the same thing. You need to give permission for consent to pay it. (basically, you say, yes I'll pay this with glee, every time you sign a form for it) Fuck them, and their law.
> 
> Play them at their own game of legal loop holes and acutal LAW.


 


xes said:


> SAo who is the one wavbing metaphysical hands about the place? I mean, the majority of slurs on this thread (if not all) are in my direction, so why wasn't that one? I don't think I've seen ymu saying that we should have to discuss these subjects and NO OTHERZ !!11ONE



The person I quoted in my post. That's why I quoted them.


----------



## Santino (Aug 5, 2010)

Dissent

DIS-FUCKING-SENT


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

Santino said:


> Dissent
> 
> DIS-FUCKING-SENT


 
Pedant


PED-FUCKING-ANT


----------



## fogbat (Aug 5, 2010)

Language descent, too


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

We will fight them, in the dictionaries!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 5, 2010)

What a steaming load of old shite.


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

What a supprise...


----------



## 8den (Aug 5, 2010)

So we're redefining the word "win" now.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> That will be the view of somebody who is looking at it from a "law society" POV. But this is a massive landmark case for what is yet to come. Noone else would have got away with what they did, in court (unless they woz a coppah) And you know it. You can go try it if you like, let me know how you get on


 
They didn't get away with anything.


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

And nor did the courts.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> And nor did the courts.


 
lweirwefgpweiyrfgpyi

that's what you just said


----------



## xes (Aug 5, 2010)

I know you did you said you did so what did i say?


----------



## captainmission (Aug 5, 2010)

xes said:


> And nor did the courts.


 
courts don't win, because they are arbitor in the issue. the council did win however by getting liability order against the nutjob


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 5, 2010)

xes; tax is part of the _redistribution_ problem, which requires a collectivist, _socialist _solution, practically by definition. not a toytown anarchist nosethumbing opt-out, which is what the OP gave us


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 5, 2010)

_Pay your rates_ you silly man.


----------



## Spanky Longhorn (Aug 5, 2010)

Streathamite said:


> xes; tax is part of the _redistribution_ problem, which requires a collectivist, _socialist _solution, practically by definition. not a toytown anarchist nosethumbing opt-out, which is what the OP gave us


 
The bloke is not an anarchist, and his solution is not anarchist either. Nor did he win, nor is he going to.

Is xes another Peter Dow log in?


----------



## ymu (Aug 5, 2010)

No. xes is a million miles from Peter Dow. Lunatic ideas, yes - but very self aware.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 5, 2010)

I'm not having him as cool untill he stops feasting 'info' from them dodgy sites that are knocking on anti-semetism. I'm sure he can live with that, he has a dog. Owning a dog is great cos no matter how despicable you are the dog still loves you


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

What antisemite website have a linked too?


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Aug 6, 2010)

Here is an item about 'Freeman on the Land' in Skeptic Wiki. As you would expect, it is not too sympathetic.

http://skepticwiki.org/index.php/Freeman_On_The_Land


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

That's becasue people are too dependant on the goverment. It'd be a massive change of life style if this were ever to take off. I think it's a move in the right direction, and if it makes me right wing to want to live free from goverment control/domination then I guess I'm right wing


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 6, 2010)

I tried watching that video last night.  It's just gibberish.


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> That's becasue people are too dependant on the goverment. It'd be a massive change of life style if this were ever to take off. I think it's a move in the right direction, and if it makes me right wing to want to live free from goverment control/domination then I guess I'm right wing



xes

Bugrof, you are really dim if you believe this 'Freeman' crap.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

And you really are dim if you believe that there's no other way to be living.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> And you really are dim if you believe that there's no other way to be living.


 
do you know what common law is?


----------



## Hocus Eye. (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> And you really are dim if you believe that there's no other way to be living.


 
Ok that is a fair swap of insults.


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 6, 2010)

TBF, xes isn't Jazz when it comes to the wibble stuff. Never seen him link to the anti-semite stuff - generally he avoids whale, jones etc. Unfair accusation. It's fluffy wibble only.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> And you really are dim if you believe that there's no other way to be living.


 
This has nothing to do with another way of living. It's got everything to do with living the exact same way as we are now but with fuck you jack forced even further to the fore. The levellers would spit in your face for trying to appropriate _consent_ for these anti-society thatcherite tax-evading  purposes.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

Blagsta said:


> do you know what common law is?


 
 my definition would be something like this..... Do not cause harm or loss to person or property, do not enter into an agreement without carrying it through. No breach the peace ect. Basically, being nice. (you might need to look that word up in a dictionary  )


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> my definition would be something like this..... Do not cause harm or loss to person or property, do not enter into an agreement without carrying it through. No breach the peace ect. Basically, being nice. (you might need to look that word up in a dictionary  )


 
You'd be rather wrong then wouldn't you?


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> betchya any money he doesn't do it though. And he's going to get away with it.


 
Seriously, XES, you cant allow that commentary to be framing your perception of what happened in that court room.  Basically, a couple of FOTL-ers came in and started quoting their made up laws.  It caused a bit of confusion amongst some of the coppers, clerks and magistrates, until the case was dismissed for the moment and the person was ordered to pay there taxes, as per the letter.  You have to wonder what happened after the person walked out of the court room, what happened months later with any follow up letters and hearings, and just totally ignore all the weird FOTL commentary that they have over that video.  It's completely made up.  You do have to pay your council tax, and if you didnt, people wouldnt.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> This has nothing to do with another way of living. It's got everything to do with living the exact same way as we are now but with fuck you jack forced even further to the fore. The levellers would spit in your face for trying to appropriate _consent_ for these anti-society thatcherite tax-evading  purposes.


 It's not just a tax thing at all though. What about drug laws which infringe on my rights (I wanna smoke weed, it's my choice) What about prostitution laws which infringe on the rights of sex workers (sex is entirely natural and shouldn't be any say of the goverment who does it and where aslong as it's all consensual) , what about the right to be treated fairly by the police, what about the right to live in peace, without getting hassled by the police over one of the thousands of new laws which have come into place through anti terror legislation. If you think that you've just got to sit there and take it like a little slut, then you sit there and take it like a little slut. If you think that there is NO other way to be living, then carry on as you are. You're free to do so, just as I should be free to live as I'd like. It's a basic human right IMO.


----------



## 8den (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> And you really are dim if you believe that there's no other way to be living.


 
FOTML are just a bunch of petulant idiots who have decided that council tax and road tax are things they can't be bothered to deal with


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

Haven't you died yet? Fucking shame.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

Fucking hell, actively withhold your tax as a protest on what it's spent on and with the expectation of a court visit - don't do this wimpy tory _no what i'm doing is perfectly legal_ bollocks - do something _illegal_, that would be far more powerful in so many ways.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> It's not just a tax thing at all though. What about drug laws which infringe on my rights (I wanna smoke weed, it's my choice) What about prostitution laws which infringe on the rights of sex workers (sex is entirely natural and shouldn't be any say of the goverment who does it and where aslong as it's all consensual) , what about the right to be treated fairly by the police, what about the right to live in peace, without getting hassled by the police over one of the thousands of new laws which have come into place through anti terror legislation. If you think that you've just got to sit there and take it like a little slut, then you sit there and take it like a little slut. If you think that there is NO other way to be living, then carry on as you are. You're free to do so, just as I should be free to live as I'd like. It's a basic human right IMO.



What about the lovely little kittens too? This is about tax, and you're ripe for the using. None of the civil liberties stuff you try and elide with this nonsense is dependent upon this ultra-individualistic egoist anti-society stuff. None of it. Every one of them can be articulated in a pro-society manner without none of this _fuck you jack_ approach.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

It's not a "fuck you jack" approach, it's a fuck the goverment approach. You can read it how you like though, it is of no matter to me. I thik we can do without the goverment, and without money. Better brand me a loonatic!


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> It's not a "fuck you jack" approach, it's a fuck the goverment approach. You can read it how you like though, it is of no matter to me. I thik we can do without the goverment, and without money. Better brand me a loonatic!


 
Who's going to provide electricity?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> It's not a "fuck you jack" approach, it's a fuck the goverment approach. You can read it how you like though, it is of no matter to me. I thik we can do without the goverment, and without money. Better brand me a loonatic!


 
No it's a fuck society approach - and it's dangerous because it confuses govt for society. It's thatcher's children - this time on youtube.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> Who's going to provide electricity?


 
We have the infrastructure inplace now to move on. We have all the machines and all the knowhow. Yes, we'd still haveto work for ourselves, we'd be working to better ourselves together, instead of just lining the pockets of the greedy. All we need to do is step back from mummy. We can stand on our own feet.


----------



## 8den (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> Haven't you died yet? Fucking shame.


 
It's always nice when you strip away your thin veneer of a happy go lucky affable bloke and show just exactly how much of an obnoxious nasty self serving little cunt you really are.


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> We have the infrastructure inplace now to move on. We have all the machines and all the knowhow. Yes, we'd still haveto work for ourselves, we'd be working to better ourselves together, instead of just lining the pockets of the greedy. All we need to do is step back from mummy. We can stand on our own feet.


 
Who decides who has to work the machines? I'd rather sit on my arse on the internet, if it's all the same to you.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> We have the infrastructure inplace now to move on. We have all the machines and all the knowhow. Yes, we'd still haveto work for ourselves, we'd be working to better ourselves together, instead of just lining the pockets of the greedy. All we need to do is step back from mummy. We can stand on our own feet.


 
...and you don't do that by denying or being used by those who want to destroy the hard-won social understanding that we're all utterly inter-dependent and reliant on each other. I'm an anarchist, i'm quite committed to the idea of a stateless society, but that doesn't mean i'll applaud any single thing that ever happens that's (on the surface) anti-govt. You need to look at the social consequences of things rather than just cheering them - lest you up end clapping sarin attacks and Oklahoma bombs or being used by right wing tools.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> Who decides who has to work the machines? I'd rather sit on my arse on the internet, if it's all the same to you.


 
That's fine. Please do. There will always be people willing to work to stop boredom.(I know i'd be one of them) I'm sure you'd soon get bored after a year or so of scratching your arse. Who decides? You do! That is your right.


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> That's fine. Please do. There will always be people willing to work to stop boredom.(I know i'd be one of them) I'm sure you'd soon get bored after a year or so of scratching your arse. Who decides? You do! That is your right.


 
Will there be a national register of sex offenders?


----------



## 8den (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> We have the infrastructure inplace now to move on. We have all the machines and all the knowhow. Yes, we'd still haveto work for ourselves, we'd be working to better ourselves together, instead of just lining the pockets of the greedy. All we need to do is step back from mummy. We can stand on our own feet.


 
And the people who built the infrastructure to supply all the machines and know how all used the system you want to dismantle. This is your cake Xes do you want to eat the cake or have the cake?


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

8den said:


> It's always nice when you strip away your thin veneer of a happy go lucky affable bloke and show just exactly how much of an obnoxious nasty self serving little cunt you really are.


 
I reserve it all for you sweet tits. Other people are capable of actual debate, you are just a cunt who I'd laugh at if I saw mangled in a horrific accident.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> Will there be a national register of sex offenders?


 
As a sex offence would be something that broke common law, yes I'm sure that'd be a good thing to keep in place.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> my definition would be something like this..... Do not cause harm or loss to person or property, do not enter into an agreement without carrying it through. No breach the peace ect. Basically, being nice. (you might need to look that word up in a dictionary  )


 
You're wrong then.  No wonder you fall for all this crap.  You seem to revel in being ignorant.


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> As a sex offence would be something that broke common law, yes I'm sure that'd be a good thing to keep in place.


 
Who decides who's on it?


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

_Damn these normans! Give me back my anglo-saxon yoke._


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> I reserve it all for you sweet tits. Other people are capable of actual debate, you are just a cunt who I'd laugh at if I saw mangled in a horrific accident.



Yeah other people xes.  That doesn't include you.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> Who decides who's on it?


 
ELECTED peoples. And no, the currecnt goverment aren't elected. Yoiu can not class it as that when there are only a handful of people to represent a country. (and they're all utter corrupt cunts)


----------



## Crispy (Aug 6, 2010)

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-common-law.htm


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> ELECTED peoples. And no, the currecnt goverment aren't elected. Yoiu can not class it as that when there are only a handful of people to represent a country. (and they're all utter corrupt cunts)


 
How will the decisions of those elected be enforced?


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

Blagsta said:


> Yeah other people xes.  That doesn't include you.


 
I see you've been in good form, with your thoughtful posts, which have brought oh so much to this discussion.


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

What if someone wanted to volunteer in a school but refused to give their consent to be subject to a check on whether they were on the national register of sex offenders?


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

What if someone was proven to be a repeat sex offender? Would they do to prison?


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

Who would intervene in cases of child neglect or domestic violence?


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

I don't have all the answers Santino, just questions. I know that the way we live now is wrong.


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

Who would regulate the distribution of medicines and drugs to ensure that they were of more benefit than harm?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 6, 2010)

tbf santino, the "how would we run an alternative society" question deserves its own thread(s)


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

Would there be speed limits? Would anyone be able to drive without taking a test? If someone hurt someone with their car, would there be a national car registration scheme to help identify them? Would drivers be required to inform the scheme if they passed their car on to someone else?


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> I see you've been in good form, with your thoughtful posts, which have brought oh so much to this discussion.


 
This rather proves my point xes.


----------



## 8den (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> I reserve it all for you sweet tits. Other people are capable of actual debate, you are just a cunt who I'd laugh at if I saw mangled in a horrific accident.


 
And you're just a class act. Filled with vile and venom and incapable of understanding how the world really works


----------



## 8den (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> ELECTED peoples. And no, the currecnt goverment aren't elected. Yoiu can not class it as that when there are only a handful of people to represent a country. (and they're all utter corrupt cunts)


 
WHAT DO WE WANT? A NEW SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT? WHAT WILL IT LOOK LIKE? Uh Dunno.....

Theres a slogan we can all gather around.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

Blagsta said:


> This rather proves my point xes.


 
You're in no position to judge who is capable of reasoned debate, when all you've done so far is call me thick or ignorant numerous times. *applauds the superior Blasta*


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

8den said:


> WHAT DO WE WANT? A NEW SYSTEM OF GOVERNMENT? WHAT WILL IT LOOK LIKE? Uh Dunno.....
> 
> Theres a slogan we can all gather around.


 
It's at least 436 times better than " WHAT DO WE WANT?...I DON'T KNOW, LET THE GOVERMENT DECIDE FOR ME...WHEN DO WE WANT IT? ...I DON'T KNOW LET, THE GOVERMENT DECIDE FOR ME!" is it not?


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> It's at least 436 times better than " WHAT DO WE WANT?...I DON'T KNOW, LET THE GOVERMENT DECIDE FOR ME...WHEN DO WE WANT IT? ...I DON'T KNOW LET THE GOVERMENT DECIDE FOR ME!" is it not?


 
Do you know what 'false dichotomy' means?


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

Is it a medical procedure?


----------



## Crispy (Aug 6, 2010)

You _are_ ignorant though Xes. Common Law is the foundation of our legal system, yet you called it "being nice"


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

It's becasue I don't need anyone to tell me that I should be nice. And whilst yes, I am ignorant toward many things, I;m still right.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

I think he may have mistaken it for the golden law/rule.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> I think he may have mistaken it for the golden law/rule.


 
I'd heard is said as common law, also as layman law and freeman law. It boils down to the same thing, be nice. if what I'm refering to is what you said, then fair enough.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> I'd heard is said as common law, also as layman law and freeman law. It boils down to the same thing, be nice. if what I'm refering to is what you said, then fair enough.


 
Then your whole case has no basis in any actual law whatsoever.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Then your whole case has no basis in any actual law whatsoever.


 
But it's right. I like to try and keep things simple. I hear something and I ponder if it is right or wrong. All I hear from the current system is wrong wrong wrong. It is wrong, we need to change. That is what I know, and i want out.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> But it's right. I like to try and keep things simple. I hear something and I ponder if it is right or wrong. All I hear from the current system is wrong wrong wrong. It is wrong, we need to change. That is what I know, and i want out.


 
The whole basis of this nonsense is that it's perfectly legal. You're undermining that case.


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> Who would intervene in cases of child neglect or domestic violence?


 
um, common law can come down on you like a ton of bricks.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

I think it is legal to be able to live your life the way you want, if you're not causing harm or loss to person or property. I think that most taxes are illegal, or at the very least nothing but an attempt at making rich people richer. And I think that if you want, you should be able to opt out. yes, this would mean that you couldn't claim benifits, or have a dustman empty your bins, or have public education/health services. But I still think it's a step in the right direction, and I fully back those who are trying it.


----------



## Santino (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> I think it is legal to be able to live your life the way you want, if you're not causing harm or loss to person or property. I think that most taxes are illegal, or at the very least nothing but an attempt at making rich people richer. And I think that if you want, you should be able to opt out. yes, this would mean that you couldn't claim benifits, or have a dustman empty your bins, or have public education/health services. But I still think it's a step in the right direction, and I fully back those who are trying it.


 
You don't know what 'legal' means. You don't understand. Wishing doesn't make it so.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> I think it is legal to be able to live your life the way you want, if you're not causing harm or loss to person or property. I think that most taxes are illegal, or at the very least nothing but an attempt at making rich people richer. And I think that if you want, you should be able to opt out. yes, this would mean that you couldn't claim benifits, or have a dustman empty your bins, or have public education/health services. But I still think it's a step in the right direction, and I fully back those who are trying it.


 
You _actively_ don't want to understand do you? You seem to me to just want to publicly demonstrate your alienation and confusion. No anarchist you.


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 6, 2010)

> yes, this would mean that you couldn't claim benifits, or have a dustman empty your bins, or have public education/health services



Yeah, but neither would many other people.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Yeah, but neither would many other people.


 
In my perfect sosciety everyone would have it for free. In a change over situation like this, then only those who opt out would have to pay for what they need.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> You _actively_ don't want to understand do you? You seem to me to just want to publicly demonstrate your alienation and confusion. No anarchist you.


 
I'm not claiming to be an anarchist. And yes, I actively don't undestand the way we live, it makes no sense to me at all.


----------



## 8den (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> In my perfect sosciety everyone would have it for free. In a change over situation like this, then only those who opt out would have to pay for what they need.


 
In your "perfect" society starvation and disease would be rampant.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> I'm not claiming to be an anarchist. And yes, I actively don't undestand the way we live, it makes no sense to me at all.


 
Maybe a small reason for that lack of understanding  is the way that you _choose_ to look at things, at society, how it functions and in  whose interests? 

The stuff you've posted on this threads highlights for me people like you are so often easily used by the powerful.


----------



## sihhi (Aug 6, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> ...and you don't do that by denying or being used by those who want to destroy the hard-won social understanding that we're all utterly inter-dependent and reliant on each other. I'm an anarchist, i'm quite committed to the idea of a stateless society, but that doesn't mean i'll applaud any single thing that ever happens that's (on the surface) anti-govt.


 
It's not anti government, it's pro-monarchical government. If what is claimed was actually carried out, only those with British birth certificates (bye bye Irish-born!) would have loyalty to the Queen, and that's largely it.




			
				Leader of Freeman Movement said:
			
		

> Leaving aside for a moment, your personal comments about the Queen and her family, we need to reach agreement on the proper function of the Monarchy itself, and before saying anything else I believe that we can agree that this proper function has nothing at all to do with the cheap posturing that is being ‘permitted’ to Our Sovereign by the Thieves & Liars who are now holding Our Queen in absolute captivity and contempt.
> I must suggest to you that the true function of the Sovereign is to act as the Chief Magistrate in our Society, with authority to ‘create’ and maintain the law, and with the duty & powers necessary to preserve and protect the security of both Our Country and Our People, under the Rule of Law. ...
> 
> The implied threat of abolishing the Monarchy is now being held over the head of the only lawful Sovereign by these worthless people, like a Sword of Damocles, and in consequence of this treason a very well educated and responsible elderly lady is being subjected to an abuse that is destroying our country; our security; our system of justice and our ways of life.
> ...



Oh yeah should you want more information bung the guys a fiver and you can find out more:


----------



## ymu (Aug 6, 2010)

Santino said:


> What if someone wanted to volunteer in a school but refushttp://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=10946156ed to give their consent to be subject to a check on whether they were on the national register of sex offenders?


They boycott schools in protest..


----------



## ymu (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> In my perfect sosciety everyone would have it for free. In a change over situation like this, then only those who opt out would have to pay for what they need.


 
Not getting this xes. Have it for free, how? Free at the point of delivery of services, absolutely. But it still has to be paid for somehow. Whether through oil wealth or taxation, binmen and teachers and doctors and nurses need to be paid for their services.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> You're in no position to judge who is capable of reasoned debate, when all you've done so far is call me thick or ignorant numerous times. *applauds the superior Blasta*


 
This proves my point even more.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> I'd heard is said as common law, also as layman law and freeman law. It boils down to the same thing, be nice. if what I'm refering to is what you said, then fair enough.



No.  Common law is law that is made through courts setting precedents.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

Blagsta said:


> This proves my point even more.


 
no, it proves mine.  (well, this reply does, which has added....what, exactly?)


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

ymu said:


> Not getting this xes. Have it for free, how? Free at the point of delivery of services, absolutely. But it still has to be paid for somehow. Whether through oil wealth or taxation, binmen and teachers and doctors and nurses need to be paid for their services.


 Well, in my "utopia" people who have skills would carry on working, as it would be for the betterment of humanity, and not for greed. So if we're feeding ourselves and clothing ourselves, we'd also be able to look after ourselves ect.(it has to start somewhere) Ofcourse this isn't going to happen in our lifetime, change like this would take a long while for people to adjust. It'd pretty much be the same, only without goverment or money. To have a goverment implies that you are unable to look after yourself. Do _you_ need to be governed? I don't.


----------



## ExtraRefined (Aug 6, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> Hmm. Since non-payment of CT leads to cuts in council services, I would say this guy is potentially encroaching on plenty of people's freedoms.



Ah yes, the freedom to spend other people's money on stuff for yourself. Only statist idiots would believe that this is "freedom"


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

That's right, council tax goes on iphones for councillors.


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

or second mortgages, or duck houses, or paying their nannies, or paying for their cars.....or 1000 pound "hammers"


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 6, 2010)

This is exactly how the clever powerful people get to use you.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> no, it proves mine.  (well, this reply does, which has added....what, exactly?)


 
You're not very self aware.


----------



## 8den (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> Well, in my "utopia" people who have skills would carry on working, as it would be for the betterment of humanity, and not for greed. So if we're feeding ourselves and clothing ourselves, we'd also be able to look after ourselves ect.(it has to start somewhere) Ofcourse this isn't going to happen in our lifetime, change like this would take a long while for people to adjust. It'd pretty much be the same, only without goverment or money. To have a goverment implies that you are unable to look after yourself. Do _you_ need to be governed? I don't.


 

Without government or money you wouldn't get a hammer


----------



## Idris2002 (Aug 6, 2010)




----------



## ExtraRefined (Aug 6, 2010)

Idris2002 said:


>


 
I have this pic on facebook with all my mates tagged. Except the "left-wing" one obviously.


----------



## Giles (Aug 6, 2010)

Usually these people think that they have won when they turn up at a busy magistrates court hearing, and talk quasi-legal gibberish at the court, so the court (who probably have two dozen other cases to get through before lunch) give up and postpone it. 

They will trumpet this as "victory" as if the state had handed them a magic "Freeman" ID card that from that day forth means that they can avoid paying taxes and fines, avoid insuring their car or the requirement to have a driving licence, and so on. While still taking full advantage of all the services that are provided with the tax that they don't want to pay. 

I wouldn't mind if they bought a field in the middle of nowhere and lived on it self-sufficiently, using no state-provided services, or hardly any.

But these people to me want it both ways - to live in a civilised society with schools, health care, roads, etc, but not pay for it. How are they different to the rich guy with "offshore" bank accounts, and other such dodges?

Giles..


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

8den said:


> Without government or money you wouldn't get a hammer


 
I have a hammer already  (I have 3, does that make me a capitalist?)


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 6, 2010)

You aren't using any of them to hammer dem down though


----------



## xes (Aug 6, 2010)

that would be causing harm


----------



## Giles (Aug 6, 2010)

Why does so much of this "Freeman" stuff seem to revolve around bizarre semantics and behaviour, and the idea that by calling yourself a different name, or sitting down or standing up or whatever, you somehow magically exempt yourself from the law?

I am pretty sure that you could stand on your head in court, and it would still be the same you in the eyes of the law. 

Can anyone prove me wrong, and point to an actual official legal text that says "if the defendant does not stand up when the judge walks in, he can do what the fuck he likes and all laws do not apply to him" or words to that effect?

Anyone?

Where does this idea come from?

Some of them also won't answer to their name (eg Fred Bloggs) but insist on referring to themselves as "Fred of the family Bloggs". 

Does this make a difference? 

I think I could stand there in court and say "I am Ming the Merciless, Mighty Emperor of Mars" and it would still be ME that got done for whatever it was.....

Giles..


----------



## ymu (Aug 6, 2010)

xes said:


> Well, in my "utopia" people who have skills would carry on working, as it would be for the betterment of humanity, and not for greed. So if we're feeding ourselves and clothing ourselves, we'd also be able to look after ourselves ect.(it has to start somewhere) Ofcourse this isn't going to happen in our lifetime, change like this would take a long while for people to adjust. It'd pretty much be the same, only without goverment or money. To have a goverment implies that you are unable to look after yourself. Do _you_ need to be governed? I don't.


So we'd all carry on working for no remuneration/beer tokens, secure in the knowledge that we could have anything we wanted for free? It's a great idea, but how do you propose we get there?


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 9, 2010)

Well there's two questions going on here.

1) Should we consent to such a system of government as we have now?

2) ARE we consenting to such a system of government as we have now?

people may think (1) but then that's their choice isn't it? xes might have a different one.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 9, 2010)

Neither of them questions are at issue here.


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 9, 2010)

oh yes they are


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 9, 2010)

No, they're not. They're two questions that you've raised that have little with with the original case. They are, in fact, parasites upon them. 

That post is just awful on so many levels as well. Shall we do the logic one first?


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Aug 9, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> Well there's two questions going on here.
> 
> 1) Should we consent to such a system of government as we have now?
> 
> ...


 
Even if they are (they're not) who cares? Do you really think a state judicial system that's been developed over the course of 1000 years is going to crumble because some prick flaps his birth certificate in court?


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 9, 2010)

Doctor Carrot said:


> Even if they are (they're not) who cares? Do you really think a state judicial system that's been developed over the course of 1000 years is going to crumble because some prick flaps his birth certificate in court?


The freemen are claiming to be following the law to the letter. What would be crumbling is fraud.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Aug 9, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> The freemen are claiming to be following the law to the letter. What would be crumbling is fraud.


 
They can claim that they're farting fairies out their arse if they like, it doesn't mean they're doing anything significant.


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 9, 2010)

Doctor Carrot said:


> They can claim that they're farting fairies out their arse if they like, it doesn't mean they're doing anything significant.


 So you are arguing that (2) is 'no' then.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 9, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> The freemen are claiming to be following the law to the letter. What would be crumbling is fraud.


 
Are they? No, it's not. 

(THINKS: Is it worth it:?)


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 9, 2010)

jazzz said:


> so you are arguing that (2) is 'no' then.


ha you trapped him now real good.


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 9, 2010)

There are only 2 options there are no other options - you are either with us or you're  bush living loon.


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 9, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> Are they? No, it's not.
> 
> (THINKS: Is it worth it:?)


 
we probably aren't going to reach a consensus on this one tonight


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 9, 2010)

Not if you're going to talk shit no.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Aug 9, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> So you are arguing that (2) is 'no' then.


 
Hang on.  Hasn't the New World Order (NWO) guff you babble on about been going on since Babylonian times? But this 'fraudulent' version of the judiciary system has been carrying on for much less time.  So presumably when/if this 'fraud' collapses due to someone flapping their birth certificate in court, the apparently true system of common law will reign supreme? But the NWO plan was, apparently, cooked up long before common law was ever thought of, it was brought in after the NWO plan was put into practice and common law was brought in by King Henry II.  They're all connected by bloodlines aren't they? Don't these royal blood lines all interbreed to keep the blood line pure? So presumably common law is just another NWO ploy?


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 9, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> Well there's two questions going on here.
> 
> 1) Should we consent to such a system of government as we have now?
> 
> ...



Errrr...no.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 9, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> The freemen are claiming to be following the law to the letter. What would be crumbling is fraud.


 
They might be claiming that.  What they're actually doing is talking a load of old shite that any sane person can see through in 5 seconds flat.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Aug 9, 2010)

They are also a bunch of Divs for filming this in a magistrates court and then putting it on the internet.  A criminal offence in its own right, I believe, and perfectly likely to result in a "contempt of court" verdict...


----------



## cesare (Aug 9, 2010)

It's just going to go round and round in circles unless these freemen (and xes) can point to where they've won and why. I quite like that this layperson can throw a magistrate's court into disarray - but all that tells me are that the magistrates concerned were completely fucking incompetent (no news there then lol) rather than winning some legal point that they can rely on going forward.

Plus the obvious stuff about paying taxes to pay for community costs -  cos not everyone can magic up land, sewerage, electricity, rubbish disposal, A&E services blah blah when on minimium wage or less to make that decision xes. It's only the priviledged that can say "fuck you" and do it.


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 9, 2010)

a bloke in cornwall tried it recently on his drink drive charge and was basically called and idiot and got the standard penalties of 350 quid and a few ponts.


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 9, 2010)

Blagsta said:


> Errrr...no.


 
no to which bit exactly?


----------



## laptop (Aug 9, 2010)

butchersapron said:


> shall we do the logic one first?







wait... is Jazzzzz


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 9, 2010)

oh look, it's laptop's green ink joke again.


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 9, 2010)

Jon-of-arc said:


> They are also a bunch of Divs for filming this in a magistrates court and then putting it on the internet.  A criminal offence in its own right, I believe, and perfectly likely to result in a "contempt of court" verdict...


 
so how come none of the campaigners in the video were found in contempt of court at the time? how come the magistrates left, and they didn't?

I don't have a firm opinion on all this stuff, but it does seem very curious.


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 9, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> no to which bit exactly?


 
all of it


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 9, 2010)

Blagsta said:


> all of it


So we shouldn't consent to our current system of government, but we aren't actually currently consenting to it? How does that work?


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 9, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> So we shouldn't consent to our current system of government, but we aren't actually currently consenting to it? How does that work?


 
Disingenuous as always Jazzz.  What you asked has no connection with the subject of this thread.  It is not "what is going on here".


----------



## 8den (Aug 9, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> so how come none of the campaigners in the video were found in contempt of court at the time?




Because you div, maybe the judge decided that wasting even more time on this bullshit was a waste of time. 




> how come the magistrates left, and they didn't?



yes because last man standing is the central tenant of our legal system. 



> I don't have a firm opinion on all this stuff, but it does seem very curious.


 
Oh kay let me tell you a lil story. My wife was assaulted a number of years ago. Her attacker was caught on 8 different CCTV cameras, and yet he claimed innocence. My wife arrived late into court of the day, and when she appeared he "Apparently" developed "serious chest pains" suddenly. Despite first aiders and an ambulance crew finding nothing wrong with his pulse, heart rate, or anything. He insisted. He was taken away by ambulance. 

Now should the judge have cited him for contempt of court, drag the ambulance crew, the doctors to provide evidence? 

The FTMOL the land stuff is similar it's idiocy and time wasting, why drag the courts into more nonsense with idiots?


----------



## Giles (Aug 9, 2010)

Where did this belief come from, that some sort of "law of the sea" is being used in courts, for cases that have nothing whatever to do with ships or the sea?

This seems to be a key plank of the whole "Freeman" thing, and I would love to know what the justification for it is?

Anyone enlighten me?

Giles..


----------



## 8den (Aug 9, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> Well there's two questions going on here.
> 
> 1) Should we consent to such a system of government as we have now?
> 
> ...



Plenty of IRA men stood infront of British courts and refused to recognise the legitimacy of the court, and weirdly they spent decades behind bars.


----------



## 8den (Aug 9, 2010)

Giles said:


> Where did this belief come from, that some sort of "law of the sea" is being used in courts, for cases that have nothing whatever to do with ships or the sea?
> 
> This seems to be a key plank of the whole "Freeman" thing, and I would love to know what the justification for it is?
> 
> ...



Let me explain. Law of the Sea, any laws freeman don't want to obey, invariably about minor traffic offences, and tax avoidance.


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 9, 2010)

8den said:


> Because you div, maybe the judge decided that wasting even more time on this bullshit was a waste of time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
This 'div' thinks you mean 'tenet', not 'tenant' 

Your example is a million miles away from that of people showing contempt of court procedures and the authority of judges/magistrates. (btw, you can have serious chest pains without a clear cause)

Why is it necessary? Well this is the other thing, how can you actually find someone guilty or liable for a charge if you can't conduct the hearing? Unless I am mistaken, you have to dot the i's and cross the t's with legal shit. You can't just fudge the paperwork.


----------



## 8den (Aug 10, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> Why is it necessary? Well this is the other thing, how can you actually find someone guilty or liable for a charge if you can't conduct the hearing?



Who's "you"?



> Unless I am mistaken, you have to dot the i's and cross the t's with legal shit. You can't just fudge the paperwork.


 
Complaining about how you're nor MR JOHN DEE you're John Dee isn't dotting the eyes and crossing the tee's it's pedantic bullshit.


----------



## Jazzz (Aug 10, 2010)

8den said:


> Who's "you"?


judges/magistrates


----------



## cesare (Aug 10, 2010)

Giles said:


> Where did this belief come from, that some sort of "law of the sea" is being used in courts, for cases that have nothing whatever to do with ships or the sea?
> 
> This seems to be a key plank of the whole "Freeman" thing, and I would love to know what the justification for it is?
> 
> ...


 
There's no separate and freestanding 'law of the sea'. We have common law, yeah, that's what our legal system is based on. 'Law of the sea'? wtf is that ... and how does it allegedly operate to stop community charges for basic habitation?


----------



## cesare (Aug 10, 2010)

Jazz/xes how much land do you think we should go and grab and set up shop? Presumably you both think that anyone can go and do it ... so how much is acceptable to grab/use?


----------



## cesare (Aug 10, 2010)

I'm so fucking gonna grab me an acre in the Western Isles now that xes says that's OK, and no-one else will decide same lol.


----------



## cesare (Aug 10, 2010)

Does anyone want an acre strip next to me? We can work out composting etc


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Aug 10, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> so how come none of the campaigners in the video were found in contempt of court at the time? how come the magistrates left, and they didn't?
> 
> I don't have a firm opinion on all this stuff, but it does seem very curious.


 
It was clearly done surreptitiously, on a modern phone camera.  you could hold your phone in your hand and no one would know it was filming. The person doing the filming does not appear to be the main one speaking to the court (I think...) so a person sat aside from the chaos,, in the public gallery, is unlikely to be noticed whilst someone else is shouting and making a tit of themselves.

The Magistrates walked out because they were unable to go ahead with the hearing as per standard procedure.  They simply let security, clerks and the police deal with it whilst they went and had a cup of tea and a good old laugh at the FOTLs expense.


----------



## Jon-of-arc (Aug 10, 2010)

section 9 of "contemp of court act 1981" dealing with recording in court

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/conten...1358414&ActiveTextDocId=1358427&filesize=2430



> 9.
> Use of tape recorders.— (1) Subject to subsection (4) below, it is a contempt of court—
> (a)to use in court, or bring into court for use, any tape recorder or other instrument for recording sound, except with the leave of the court;
> (b)to publish a recording of legal proceedings made by means of any such instrument, or any recording derived directly or indirectly from it, by playing it in the hearing of the public or any section of the public, or to dispose of it or any recording so derived, with a view to such publication;



And section 14 - possible punishments for the recording...



> 14.
> Proceedings in England and Wales.— (1) In any case where a court has power to commit a person to prison for contempt of court and (apart from this provision) no limitation applies to the period of committal, the committal shall (without prejudice to the power of the court to order his earlier discharge) be for a fixed term, and that term shall not on any occasion exceed two years in the case of committal by a superior court, or one month in the case of committal by an inferior court.
> (2) In any case where an inferior court has power to fine a person for contempt of court and (apart from this provision) no limit applies to the amount of the fine, the fine shall not on any occasion exceed£2,500



2 years and 2 and a half grand.  And they take it pretty seriously - notice how you never, ever see an undercover reporter recording court procedings.  Ever.  Because they would get locked up, the tape destroyed and the story be worthless.  these FOTL dicks really dont have a clue what laws they are flouting, and no FOTL bullshit rhetoric will save you when you're locked up at her majs pleasure.  Screws get off trampling over such pathetic attempts at defiance...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 10, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> you can have serious chest pains without a clear cause


 
But a pint of silver will clear them right up!


----------



## Blagsta (Aug 10, 2010)

Jazzz said:


> This 'div' thinks you mean 'tenet', not 'tenant'
> 
> Your example is a million miles away from that of people showing contempt of court procedures and the authority of judges/magistrates. (btw, you can have serious chest pains without a clear cause)
> 
> Why is it necessary? Well this is the other thing, how can you actually find someone guilty or liable for a charge if you can't conduct the hearing? Unless I am mistaken, you have to dot the i's and cross the t's with legal shit. You can't just fudge the paperwork.



You do know that people can be found liable to pay council tax in their abscence?


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 10, 2010)

Giles said:


> Where did this belief come from, that some sort of "law of the sea" is being used in courts, for cases that have nothing whatever to do with ships or the sea?
> 
> This seems to be a key plank of the whole "Freeman" thing, and I would love to know what the justification for it is?
> 
> ...



In the US they're calling it 'admiralty laws' and say they don't apply on land. Same as their whole 'strawman' thing WRT court's spelling names in BLOCK CAPS not legally being the person know as Block Caps.


----------



## Santino (Aug 10, 2010)

Can we change the name of this thread to 'Man does not win court case'?


----------



## Giles (Aug 10, 2010)

kyser_soze said:


> In the US they're calling it 'admiralty laws' and say they don't apply on land. Same as their whole 'strawman' thing WRT court's spelling names in BLOCK CAPS not legally being the person know as Block Caps.


 
Isn't all of this just a load of bollocks, though?  

Can anyone show me an official bit of legislation anywhere, here or in America, that says anything along the lines of "if you write your name F BLOGGS then it means a totally different you than if you write it f bloggs"?

Why "admiralty law"? When and why did "they" (whoever "they" are) decide that this special type of law should be applied even when it is supposedly "not really binding"? 

Giles..


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 10, 2010)

Giles, you keep asking why, and yet have already answered your questions with the succinct:



> Isn't all of this just a load of bollocks, though?



Yes it is. Completely. These people are in the same league as Wesley Snipes trying the constitutional 'Illegal tax' thing (result: 3 years), and Saddam Hussein refusing to acknowledge the legitimacy of the court (result: Dead).


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

So you'd better all just shut up and obey what ever your goverment want you to do! You have NO CHOICES. They've all been made for you.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 10, 2010)

Fight the man, by all means, but you'll need a _slightly _more substantial weapon.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 10, 2010)

xes said:


> So you'd better all just shut up and obey what ever your goverment want you to do! You have NO CHOICES. They've all been made for you.


 
You really are missing the point by a country mile.


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

I prefer to just ignore them. But it would be funny to rape them in the botty they way they rape us.


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> You really are missing the point by a country mile.


 
I don't think I am. Goverment say that you should do this and that, and you have absolutly no way of legally saying no. So you'd better just get on with it, eh?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 10, 2010)

xes said:


> I don't think I am. Goverment say that you should do this and that, and you have absolutly no way of legally saying no. So you'd better just get on with it, eh?


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

beesonthewhatnow said:


>


 
ok then, instead of your usual patronising "I know better than you" stance, would you like to point out the points that I pointed away from and point in in the right direction of said points that I missed?
(I'm also waiting DotCs various links to the multiple times I've linked to antisemite websites btw, if you're around Dot)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 10, 2010)

xes said:


> ok then, instead of your usual patronising "I know better than you" stance, would you like to point out the points that I pointed away from and point in in the right direction of said points that I missed?
> (I'm also waiting DotCs various links to the multiple times I've linked to antisemite websites btw, if you're around Dot)


 
For starters you seem to think that someone has somehow beaten the system here.  They haven't. Not even a tiny, teensy weensy bit.

You also seem to think that by pointing this out people are saying that we should all roll over and accept anything a government does. They aren't.

You also seem to have failed to see the right wing thinking behind the FOTL bollocks.


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

They haven't beaten it yet, fair enough, but I have faith that they will eventually. And it'll be the start of something beautiful. 

What would your best way of lawful dissent be, then? Nobody else has anything better than the FOTL lot. Oh yes, lets go stand in London for a bit, which will do nothing at all. Great idea, I'm sure the goverment give a fuck and everything. 

No, I still don't see what's right wing about wanting to move the fuck out of home and stand on my own 2 feet. Taking responsibility for myself and my own actions. Wow, I'm soooooo right wing!!! (why is it that when ever I do a political compass thing, I always end up left of Ghandi and the Dhali Lama, have I gone too left and ended up in the right wing campus? I don't think so)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 10, 2010)

I didn't say you were right wing. Read what I typed again.


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

Well, I fully support the FOTL "movement" so I must be.


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 10, 2010)

Collective action to 'stand on our own two feet' = left wing

Individualist action to 'stand on our own two feet' = right wing.

FOTL are the individualist strand on this. If you look at the types involved in the US it's libertarians (US version), free republic types and people from Montana. The emphasis on not paying ones debts (to anyone, not just corporations) is inherently a selfish approach, as it means you discard any responsibilities you have to others.


----------



## tarannau (Aug 10, 2010)

xes said:


> No, I still don't see what's right wing about wanting to move the fuck out of home and stand on my own 2 feet.



Are you pre-pubescent and still living at home with mum then?


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

If there is more than 1 FOTLer, then is it an Individual thing, or a collective thing? There are several thousand of people showing interest at least. That's more than an individual


----------



## cesare (Aug 10, 2010)

xes said:


> If there is more than 1 FOTLer, then is it an Individual thing, or a collective thing? There are several thousand of people showing interest at least. That's more than an individual


 

There can be more than one individual with an individualistic viewpoint.


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

tarannau said:


> Are you pre-pubescent and still living at home with mum then?


 
By moving out of home and standing on my own 2 feet, I ment ( as you're fully aware of) moving away from being governed by a goverment. I do not need to be governed, I am an adult who is capable of getting up and going to work on my own. As we all are. To be governed implies that you are inable to do this, and that you need to be looked after.


----------



## tarannau (Aug 10, 2010)

No it doesn't, you silly sausage.


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

cesare said:


> There can be more than one individual with an individualistic viewpoint.


 
So how would you tell the difference between 1 large group of people who all agree on something, and another large group of people who all agree on something? What makes 1 left wing and 1 right wing?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 10, 2010)

xes said:


> To be governed implies that you are inable to do this, and that you need to be looked after.


 
Yet another


----------



## kyser_soze (Aug 10, 2010)

xes said:


> If there is more than 1 FOTLer, then is it an Individual thing, or a collective thing? There are several thousand of people showing interest at least. That's more than an individual


 
There are a lot of republicans in the USA. All of them would agree that they believe in individualism (in one shape or another). This does not make the GOP a party that promotes collectivist responses in policy. 



> I do not need to be governed, I am an adult who is capable of getting up and going to work on my own. As we all are. To be governed implies that you are inable to do this, and that you need to be looked after.



If I fall ill, I need to be governed by a doctor or other medical professionals. If I wish to learn something, while I can self-study, ultimately it will be better for my understanding of a topic if I am governed by a tutor. You're making an incorrect comparison here. As are the FOTLers.


----------



## cesare (Aug 10, 2010)

xes said:


> So how would you tell the difference between 1 large group of people who all agree on something, and another large group of people who all agree on something? What makes 1 left wing and 1 right wing?


 

I don't think I can explain it any better than kyser did tbh.


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

tarannau said:


> No it doesn't, you silly sausage.


 
By the very defintion of the word goven, it kind of does.

to govern (third-person singular simple present governs, present participle governing, simple past and past participle governed)

   1. (transitive) To make and administer the public policy and affairs of; to exercise sovereign authority in.
   2. (transitive) To control the actions or behavior of; to keep under control; to restrain.

          Govern yourselves like civilized people.
          a student who could not govern his impulses.

   3. (transitive) To exercise a deciding or determining influence on.

          Chance usually governs the outcome of the game.

   4. (transitive) To control the speed, flow etc. of; to regulate.

          a valve that governs fuel intake.

   5. (intransitive) To exercise political authority; to run a government.
   6. (intransitive) To have or exercise a determining influence.
   7. (transitive) To require that a certain preposition, grammatical case, etc. be used with a word; sometimes used synonymously with collocate.
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/govern

Govern= Control
Ment= Mind
You work the rest out.


----------



## Crispy (Aug 10, 2010)

ment = mind since when?!

ment is a suffix, meaning something like "being in the state of" - so an arguement is the condition you're in when arguing. An abutment is something that abuts. Government is the condition of being governed.


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

I believe it comes from latin. (or some olden day speakage)

Think  - Mental (I know you were already anyway )
From Latin ment-, stem of mēns (“mind”).
http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/-ment

It's not a coincidence IMO.


----------



## tarannau (Aug 10, 2010)

Pulling out a literal definition from the dictionary still doesn't come close to backing up your statement that it 'implies that you are inable to do this'  (sic) - insert random collection of statements here, from getting up and going to work toother dubious distinctions.


----------



## ymu (Aug 10, 2010)

Fuck's sake xes. If you have kids, do you want to home-school or pay private fees? If you use a road, do you want to pay toll charges to the private company that built it? If you get ill, do you want to have to find the money for treatment or pay some insurance company a profit to cover you? If your house catches fire, do you want the fire service to check if you can pay first? If you want your bins collected, do you want to pay the binmen direct, or would you rather take it to the tip yourself and pay there? If you get sick or laid off, do you want to be reliant on charity?

There is some stuff where private provision makes no sense whatsoever. That's what we pay taxes for. Campaign all you like on about what those taxes are spent on - please do, the more the merrier - but campaigning for no taxes is moronically right-wing. The fact that not-rich people can even contemplate such a thing is testimony to how firm the stranglehold by the rich and their media lackeys and in-pocket politicians has got. It is a devastatingly bad idea for the 99% of us who are on real world incomes with real world job security. Surely you can see that?


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

It does though, we are being governed (controlled) As a race/people, we are incapable of making large desicions without goverment. We are a backward, baby race of people. Who sill live at home with mummy. I'm ready to move out, all my shit is packed and I've booked the taxi!


----------



## tarannau (Aug 10, 2010)

Well fuck off to the deep wilderness then - nobody's stopping you. I've got some tribal land in the Amazon that nobody will bother you in, honest.

This is silly, desperate stuff even by your standards. So in fact your 'independence' and large decision seems to revolve around you watching these halfwitted right wing goons from the sidelines and cheering loudly. Whoo independence


----------



## butchersapron (Aug 10, 2010)

Government isn't two different words put together, it's one word developed via the use of a suffix from a verb into a noun.


----------



## ymu (Aug 10, 2010)

Check out the tax-free regimes worldwide xes, and tell us which one you're going to emigrate to. You have a choice between the oil dictatorships of the Middle East or some of the more troubled African states. Which one works for you?


----------



## xes (Aug 10, 2010)

I'll be living out my utopian hunter gatherer life in the UK taa muchly. As soon as I can, have ties at the moment so it's not feasable. But I will do it one day, it is my idea of heaven. 

You lot can deal with the fallout of when the banks crash fully and there is no money. I've already got a good food storage, (well, about 2 months worth) next step will be to sort the water out. And i've been planting edible things around my local countrside for about 4 years. (forgot where i put half of it, but that's beside the point) My "right wing" paradise is well and truly in the making. Probably need to invest in some solar pannels of some sort for leccy. Have a fireplace which just needs to be made good. If it all goes down tomorow, I can live happily for at least 2 months before I have to start eating people. I don't need to go to another country. it is my right to live like that right where i am.

Now, I;m goiung to go and get as high as i can, and watch some stuff.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 10, 2010)

xes said:


> I'll be living out my utopian hunter gatherer life in the UK taa muchly. As soon as I can, have ties at the moment so it's not feasable. But I will do it one day, it is my idea of heaven.
> 
> You lot can deal with the fallout of when the banks crash fully and there is no money. I've already got a good food storage, (well, about 2 months worth) next step will be to sort the water out. And i've been planting edible things around my local countrside for about 4 years. (forgot where i put half of it, but that's beside the point) My "right wing" paradise is well and truly in the making. Probably need to invest in some solar pannels of some sort for leccy. Have a fireplace which just needs to be made good. If it all goes down tomorow, I can live happily for at least 2 months before I have to start eating people. I don't need to go to another country. it is my right to live like that right where i am.
> 
> Now, I;m goiung to go and get as high as i can, and watch some stuff.


 
Yeah, sounds like paradise. Tinned food and as much as you can forage. Fucking A.


----------



## 8den (Aug 10, 2010)

xes said:


> I'll be living out my utopian hunter gatherer life in the UK taa muchly. As soon as I can, have ties at the moment so it's not feasable. But I will do it one day, it is my idea of heaven.
> 
> You lot can deal with the fallout of when the banks crash fully and there is no money.



Okay we'll economics to the ever growing list of shit you know nothing about. 



> I've already got a good food storage, (well, about 2 months worth) next step will be to sort the water out. And i've been planting edible things around my local countrside for about 4 years. (forgot where i put half of it, but that's beside the point) My "right wing" paradise is well and truly in the making. Probably need to invest in some solar pannels of some sort for leccy.



And what if "society collapses" before you get around this? How will you pay for it then? Even if you're capable getting together to sort this out before this supposed collapse, exactly what can you trade to secure parts and repairs for a solar panel.

Incidentally if you stub your toe on a rusty nail, who's ensuring there's a reliable source of tetanus shots? Or antibotics? 

Even if the workers of the pharmacy planets can organise working together, who's managing the transportation and distribution?

I imagine you'll want "leccy" to run the DVDs you watched while stoned, who's making the films you watch, growing your weed, and hanging out?



> Have a fireplace which just needs to be made good. If it all goes down
> tomorow,



So if it does gone down tomorrow you think your chimney sweep has a sat phone, with solar panels. 



> I can live happily for at least 2 months before I have to start eating people. I don't need to go to another country. it is my right to live like that right where i am.



So basically your argument is that unless you start eating people you should be allowed do what you want? Jesus? Everyone aside from Hannibal Lector is evil?



> Now, I;m goiung to go and get as high as i can, and watch some stuff.


 

Two things you will not be able to do in your utopia.

How exactly will you pay the tv technicians and film makers and the guy who grows your herb? Say you pay them in vegetables? How do buy tranport time? 

What happens if your child is ill at 6am, and you don't have the cash on you?


----------



## xes (Aug 11, 2010)

8den said:


> So basically your argument is that unless you start eating people you should be allowed do what you want?


 Yes, that's just what I mean   

And you think I'm thick, sheesh.


----------



## Giles (Aug 11, 2010)

xes said:


> They haven't beaten it yet, fair enough, but I have faith that they will eventually. And it'll be the start of something beautiful.
> 
> What would your best way of lawful dissent be, then? Nobody else has anything better than the FOTL lot. Oh yes, lets go stand in London for a bit, which will do nothing at all. Great idea, I'm sure the goverment give a fuck and everything.
> 
> No, I still don't see what's right wing about wanting to move the fuck out of home and stand on my own 2 feet. Taking responsibility for myself and my own actions. Wow, I'm soooooo right wing!!! (why is it that when ever I do a political compass thing, I always end up left of Ghandi and the Dhali Lama, have I gone too left and ended up in the right wing campus? I don't think so)


 
What makes you think that the all-powerful "system" have deliberately left this gaping hole in their legal systems, such that anyone can opt out of paying their share, simply by saying "I'm a freeman" or by writing their names in lower case, or standing up or sitting down at key moments in court, or by calling themselves "Fred of the family Bloggs" or some other silliness?

Why would those who write the laws include all these "secret" provisions for not having to comply with them, just waiting for this secret knowledge to leak out and spread around.

I don't get it.

Giles..


----------



## Santino (Aug 11, 2010)

Is this the same system that has concealed the evidence of extra-terrestrial intelligence for decades and is now in the process of 'drip-feeding' us the revelation of its existence to pave the way for a brave new world?


----------



## xes (Aug 11, 2010)

Part of that system, yes.


----------



## Psychonaut (Aug 11, 2010)

xes said:


> I'll be living out my utopian hunter gatherer life in the UK taa muchly. As soon as I can, have ties at the moment so it's not feasable. But I will do it one day, it is my idea of heaven.
> 
> You lot can deal with the fallout of when the banks crash fully and there is no money. I've already got a good food storage, (well, about 2 months worth) next step will be to sort the water out. And i've been planting edible things around my local countrside for about 4 years. (forgot where i put half of it, but that's beside the point) My "right wing" paradise is well and truly in the making. Probably need to invest in some solar pannels of some sort for leccy. Have a fireplace which just needs to be made good. If it all goes down tomorow, I can live happily for at least 2 months before I have to start eating people. I don't need to go to another country. it is my right to live like that right where i am.
> 
> Now, I;m goiung to go and get as high as i can, and watch some stuff.


 
have you read ferfals blog? notes on survival through the argentinian economic crisis when it went a bit madmax. 

Thats great about the stockpiling & guerilla veg patchs. Everyone home should have a few months cheap food in stock, then society wouldnt have to collapse in the event of A failure in banking/oil supply/electric/natural disaster or whatever else.


----------



## past caring (Aug 11, 2010)




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## Jeff Robinson (Aug 12, 2010)

(((((Xes)))))


----------



## neil ferguson (Nov 4, 2012)

Seriously, if these fucking nutters want to not pay tax then fair play to them. But then they will have to provide their own health care, they can't use our (the tax payers) roads, will have to sort out their own waste with no recourse to any services they haven't got a legally binding contract with a supplier for, will have to pay someone to teach their children (please god make it so they can't breed) and if they get the shit beaten out of them will have to tell the police to stay the fuck out of their fmotl business. No, these guys are just freeloaders who you can guarantee will be taking every penny they can from the state and who haven't the brains to work out that someone has to provide those pennies. Or is that provided by the millions hidden behind the birth certificate. It's a pity that modern society has stopped natural selection in it's tracks.


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## Deareg (Nov 4, 2012)

neil ferguson said:


> Seriously, if these fucking nutters want to not pay tax then fair play to them. But then they will have to provide their own health care, they can't use our (the tax payers) roads, will have to sort out their own waste with no recourse to any services they haven't got a legally binding contract with a supplier for, will have to pay someone to teach their children (please god make it so they can't breed) and if they get the shit beaten out of them will have to tell the police to stay the fuck out of their fmotl business. No, these guys are just freeloaders who you can guarantee will be taking every penny they can from the state and who haven't the brains to work out that someone has to provide those pennies. Or is that provided by the millions hidden behind the birth certificate. It's a pity that modern society has stopped natural selection in it's tracks.


You started out saying you wanted to be serious, make your fucking mind up.


----------



## kenny g (Nov 4, 2012)

Amazing how statist some so called radicals are. It is perfectly honourable to want to consider the possibility of surviving with as little recourse to the state and modern economy as possible. That doesn't mean the absurdity of reaching the levels shown in the US program preppers where people stock pile six months worth of excess US consumption and preparation is just another outlet for hoarding and mass consumption. It does mean perfectly sensible approaches towards veg gardening, preparing patches of land so they can be converted to food production relatively quickly, improving food growing skills, and learning to cook from bulk, nutritious staples. . I decided a few years ago that I could not be arsed becoming an allotmenter but have dug up my front paving, used giant clover to break up the soil and as a green manure, and now planted a few flowers. In a drop of a hat it could be used for spinach/ greenery growing.  Similarly, brown chick peas are bought in 2kg bags and I can cook a weeks worth of lunch with around 400g for fuck all money. All local wild apple, sweet chestnut and mulberry trees have been identified and  utilised.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 4, 2012)

kenny g said:


> Amazing how statist some so called radicals are. It is perfectly honourable to want to consider the possibility of surviving with as little recourse to the state and modern economy as possible. That doesn't mean the absurdity of reaching the levels shown in the US program preppers where people stock pile six months worth of excess US consumption and preparation is just another outlet for hoarding and mass consumption. It does mean perfectly sensible approaches towards veg gardening, preparing patches of land so they can be converted to food production relatively quickly, improving food growing skills, and learning to cook from bulk, nutritious staples. . I decided a few years ago that I could not be arsed becoming an allotmenter but have dug up my front paving, used giant clover to break up the soil and as a green manure, and now planted a few flowers. In a drop of a hat it could be used for spinach/ greenery growing. Similarly, brown chick peas are bought in 2kg bags and I can cook a weeks worth of lunch with around 400g for fuck all money. All local wild apple, sweet chestnut and mulberry trees have been identified and utilised.


 
To be fair, a week of chickpeas will make your home smell of brown manure.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Nov 4, 2012)

These wankers wanting to go back to some sort of hunter primitive gatherer/growing all your own runner beans type shit can fuck _right_ off. Spending all your physical and mental stregnth on something so mundane as securing your next meal sounds a bit of a fucking drag to me. And if the system does collapse do people think just coz they know how to trap rabbits and distill their own piss, they'll somehow be alright? What's to stop a load of marauding brigands taking their rabbits off them, sticking big sticks up their arses, dipping them in barrels of shit and calling them toffee apples? Nothing. Point proved, I'd say.

And prior to this thread, the only place I've ever seen FOTL mentioned is VNN.


----------



## Blagsta (Nov 4, 2012)

kenny g said:


> Amazing how statist some so called radicals are. It is perfectly honourable to want to consider the possibility of surviving with as little recourse to the state and modern economy as possible. That doesn't mean the absurdity of reaching the levels shown in the US program preppers where people stock pile six months worth of excess US consumption and preparation is just another outlet for hoarding and mass consumption. It does mean perfectly sensible approaches towards veg gardening, preparing patches of land so they can be converted to food production relatively quickly, improving food growing skills, and learning to cook from bulk, nutritious staples. . I decided a few years ago that I could not be arsed becoming an allotmenter but have dug up my front paving, used giant clover to break up the soil and as a green manure, and now planted a few flowers. In a drop of a hat it could be used for spinach/ greenery growing. Similarly, brown chick peas are bought in 2kg bags and I can cook a weeks worth of lunch with around 400g for fuck all money. All local wild apple, sweet chestnut and mulberry trees have been identified and utilised.


 
Ahhh, the smell of selfish hippy individualism is strong in this one!


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## kenny g (Nov 4, 2012)

Frances Lengel said:


> What's to stop a load of marauding brigands taking their rabbits off them etc.


 Not a very good reason not to know how to make a rabbit stew. Or how to skin a rabbit for that matter. Obviously being able to cook, grow vegetables and feed a family on fuck all is not a panacea but it is something that has come in useful and I have thanked my mum for quite a few times. People who are interested in learning to live with less resources or to use available resources more efficiently are to be commended rather than mocked by statist leftists.

I agree that aiming to have to live as a full time small holder / allotment peasant is not a particularly attractive option. I can't be arsed with it either but I don't object to having some basic knowledge as to how it can be done.


----------



## Jazzz (Nov 4, 2012)

Giles said:


> What makes you think that the all-powerful "system" have deliberately left this gaping hole in their legal systems, such that anyone can opt out of paying their share, simply by saying "I'm a freeman" or by writing their names in lower case, or standing up or sitting down at key moments in court, or by calling themselves "Fred of the family Bloggs" or some other silliness?
> 
> Why would those who write the laws include all these "secret" provisions for not having to comply with them, just waiting for this secret knowledge to leak out and spread around.
> 
> ...


Well, it's a case of jurisdiction. It doesn't matter what laws you might write - if you don't have it, they don't matter. 

Take Urban75 as a case in point. We sign up, creating our urban75 account, and agree to follow the posting rules outlined in the FAQ. Should we break those rules, we can expect penalties, i.e. temporary bannings, or the ultimate sanction - a permanent ban (execution). editor is sovereign of urban75, and gets to make the rules. We consent to them. If he wanted, he could notice the introduction of subscription fees and financial penalties for posting violations, and if we didn't reject (the offer!), they'd be good in law.

But if editor wanted everyone in the country to pay him £10 per week - what matter what rules he makes up? He has no jurisdiction over Fred Bloggs of Chumpbottom. 

And so it is with our system of governance. What is it that makes us the subject of the queen, and not the other way around? Royal jelly? The blinging jewelry? No - it's our consent.


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2012)

kenny g said:


> *Amazing how statist some so called radicals are.* It is perfectly honourable to want to consider the possibility of surviving with as little recourse to the state and modern economy as possible. That doesn't mean the absurdity of reaching the levels shown in the US program preppers where people stock pile six months worth of excess US consumption and preparation is just another outlet for hoarding and mass consumption. It does mean perfectly sensible approaches towards veg gardening, preparing patches of land so they can be converted to food production relatively quickly, improving food growing skills, and learning to cook from bulk, nutritious staples. . I decided a few years ago that I could not be arsed becoming an allotmenter but have dug up my front paving, used giant clover to break up the soil and as a green manure, and now planted a few flowers. In a drop of a hat it could be used for spinach/ greenery growing. Similarly, brown chick peas are bought in 2kg bags and I can cook a weeks worth of lunch with around 400g for fuck all money. All local wild apple, sweet chestnut and mulberry trees have been identified and utilised.


 

freemen on the land heark back to an older supposedly purer form of governance.Common law and all that bollocks. They're reactionaries, whose greatest acts of radicalism are to try and skip out on council tax and speeding fines.


----------



## Giles (Nov 5, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Well, it's a case of jurisdiction. It doesn't matter what laws you might write - if you don't have it, they don't matter.
> 
> Take Urban75 as a case in point. We sign up, creating our urban75 account, and agree to follow the posting rules outlined in the FAQ. Should we break those rules, we can expect penalties, i.e. temporary bannings, or the ultimate sanction - a permanent ban (execution). editor is sovereign of urban75, and gets to make the rules. We consent to them. If he wanted, he could notice the introduction of subscription fees and financial penalties for posting violations, and if we didn't reject (the offer!), they'd be good in law.
> 
> ...


 
It is true that we generally consent to being part of the country that we live in. Also that living in any country involves obligations to obey laws and chip in money to pay for things.

But my old post was commenting on the silliness of these "freemen" in believing that they can circumvent laws by doing silly things (like using funny versions of their names) that they incorrectly believe will allow them individually to escape criminal charges, or allow them to avoid paying taxes, fines, car insurance and other stuff.

See this entry for more on freeman bollocks.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Freeman_on_the_land

Giles..


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## Santino (Nov 5, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Well, it's a case of jurisdiction. It doesn't matter what laws you might write - if you don't have it, they don't matter.
> 
> Take Urban75 as a case in point. We sign up, creating our urban75 account, and agree to follow the posting rules outlined in the FAQ. Should we break those rules, we can expect penalties, i.e. temporary bannings, or the ultimate sanction - a permanent ban (execution). editor is sovereign of urban75, and gets to make the rules. We consent to them. If he wanted, he could notice the introduction of subscription fees and financial penalties for posting violations, and if we didn't reject (the offer!), they'd be good in law.
> 
> ...


In your analogy, editor would allow people to avoid the subscription charges if they hadn't registered a proper email when signing up, when in reality he'd just revoke their posting rights.


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## XR75 (Nov 5, 2012)

neil ferguson said:


> Seriously, if these fucking nutters want to not pay tax then fair play to them. But then they will have to provide their own health care, they can't use our (the tax payers) roads, will have to sort out their own waste with no recourse to any services they haven't got a legally binding contract with a supplier for, will have to pay someone to teach their children (please god make it so they can't breed) and if they get the shit beaten out of them will have to tell the police to stay the fuck out of their fmotl business. No, these guys are just freeloaders who you can guarantee will be taking every penny they can from the state and who haven't the brains to work out that someone has to provide those pennies. Or is that provided by the millions hidden behind the birth certificate. It's a pity that modern society has stopped natural selection in it's tracks.


 
Must be a funny time when people support all the nonsense the state throws at people then call them freeloaders for refusing to pay for freeloaders.
One thing I found quite funny about the FTMOL is how much it winds up the police.


----------



## Jazzz (Nov 5, 2012)

Giles said:


> It is true that we generally consent to being part of the country that we live in. Also that living in any country involves obligations to obey laws and chip in money to pay for things.
> 
> But my old post was commenting on the silliness of these "freemen" in believing that they can circumvent laws by doing silly things (like using funny versions of their names) that they incorrectly believe will allow them individually to escape criminal charges, or allow them to avoid paying taxes, fines, car insurance and other stuff.
> 
> ...


Thanks Giles. I feel my understanding of the freeman movement, if not compete, exceeds that of your reference.

"it is true that we generally consent to being part of the country that we live in" it appears that you are saying this as if it happens simply by us being here. That's not the case. An example off the top of my head - Julian Assange is currently within our shores, yet is within the jurisdiction of Ecuador.

"living in any country involves obligations to chip in and pay for things" - I take it you are not seriously proposing this as a maxim of law. Who to? You? Me? The Queen? Who decides?

I've had a little experience with freeman stuff. I am not without criticisms of the movement. However, you are incorrect if you think that the stuff never works. I've seen first hand evidence of quite a bit. You can check out the posts on the forum www.getoutofdebtfree.org/ - plenty of people 'getting out' of parking fines, smaller bank loans, etc.

A4V success - perhaps the most extraordinary maneuver in the freeman's armoury is the accepted for value. We could have a whole thread devoted to acceptance for value. It is utterly incredible - in a nutshell, it involves taking a bill, and turning it into cash with some banking ju-jitsu, and then returning it as the payment for the debt. example - 

The fact that people have got A4V to work appears to prove that we are subjected to an extremely complex financial scam by the powers that be.

However, it is certainly the case that just turning up in court and saying a few tricks is likely not going to work. If people are going for the harder stuff - they really need to know their stuff, and they likely have a big learning experience.


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## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2012)

Any answer here yet jazzz? Come on, back it up.




			
				jazzz said:
			
		

> I've had a little experience with freeman stuff. I am not without criticisms of the movement.


 
What are those criticisms?


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## fogbat (Nov 5, 2012)

XR75 said:


> Must be a funny time when people support all the nonsense the state throws at people then call them freeloaders for refusing to pay for freeloaders.
> One thing I found quite funny about the FTMOL is how much it winds up the police.


Shitting yourself during arrest winds up the police too.


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## Jazzz (Nov 5, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Any answer here yet jazzz? Come on, back it up.
> 
> 
> 
> What are those criticisms?


I already told you that I am not doing your questions.


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## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> I already told you that I am not doing your questions.


I think you are, And i think you need to do it/them sharpish as each evasion only serves to make my point for me.


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## Jazzz (Nov 5, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> I think you are, And i think you need to do it/them sharpish as each evasion only serves to make my point for me.


In which case, you can have no complaint. 

However I do - it is not gentlemanly to badger someone. I find engaging with you highly tedious.


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## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> In which case, you can have no complaint.
> 
> However I do - it is not gentlemanly to badger someone. I find engaging with you highly tedious.


Because you are trapped on each question with no elegant way to back out other than this refusal that you dress as principle. Happy to reply until you realised that i had you trapped weren't you?


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## captainmission (Nov 5, 2012)

You can find a 192 page judgment by a Canadian judge in the case of a _brave_ freeman seeking to avoid having to pay maintaince to his wife and children here - http://www.canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

The judgment basically provides a detailed and reference guide to the history of various freemen movements and tactics and details how these have consistently been rejected under the Canadian legal system and left the litigants facing increased costs, punitive damages or contempt charges.

as for 'acceptance for value' this is characterised as



> The mythology behind the ‘A4V’ scheme is extremely peculiar, and requires travel into the conspiratorial and demon-haunted shadow world of the OPCA [freeman] community. Aspects of this scheme are explained in reported U.S. cases, including: *United States v. Heath*, 525 F.3d 451 (6th Cir. 2008); *United States v. Anderson*, 353 F.3d 490, 500 (6th Cir. 2003), certiorari denied, 541 U.S. 1068 (2004); *United States v. Oehler*, 2003 WL 1824967 (D. Minn. Apr. 2, 2003), affirmed, 116 Fed. Appx. 43 (8th Cir. 2004); *United State v. Eddie Ray Kahn et al.*, No. 1:08‑cr‑00271‑RCL‑1 (U.S.D.C. D.C. May 26, 2010). As I understand it, A4V’s guru promoters claim that each person is associated with a secret government bank account which contains millions of dollars. The exact sum varies from guru to guru. The bank account’s number is usually related to some identification number assigned to a person by the state, such as a Social Security Number, a Social Insurance Number, or a birth certificate number. The specific details of that relationship also seem to vary between A4V schemes.


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## Jazzz (Nov 5, 2012)

butchersapron said:


> Because you are trapped on each question with no elegant way to back out other than this refusal that you dress as principle. Happy to reply until you realised that i had you trapped weren't you?




I'm here to share opinions amicably, not to be interrogated by very small-minded people. Grow up.


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## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2012)

No you're not. And yes you are. As i said, no way out but this. I'd like you to answer some reasonable questions please.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2012)

you drink silver, bleach and believe in saucer people.


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## FridgeMagnet (Nov 5, 2012)

DotCommunist said:


> you drink silver, bleach and believe in saucer people.


Not all saucer people are bad  Just the ones who own the banks  It's not antisauceric


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## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2012)

it's the Samovarians we need to watch


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## Jazzz (Nov 5, 2012)

captainmission said:


> You can find a 192 page judgment by a Canadian judge in the case of a _brave_ freeman seeking to avoid having to pay maintaince to his wife and children here - http://www.canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html
> 
> The judgment basically provides a detailed and reference guide to the history of various freemen movements and tactics and details how these have consistently been rejected under the Canadian legal system and left the litigants facing increased costs, punitive damages or contempt charges.
> 
> as for 'acceptance for value' this is characterised as


try this one:

(not nearly so long as the A4V video)


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## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2012)

nobody ever watches these


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## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> try this one:
> 
> (not nearly so long as the A4V video)



Why? To what end?


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## captainmission (Nov 5, 2012)

well that's a video of someone acting like a dick. What exactly is it meant to prove?


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2012)

That magistrates can be bamboozled because they are lazy tories with a sense of entitlement rather than expertise in wanky old laws.


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## DotCommunist (Nov 5, 2012)

If freemanon the land defenses are so great how come those putting them forward keep getting nicked.


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## Nigel Irritable (Nov 5, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> A4V success - perhaps the most extraordinary maneuver in the freeman's armoury is the accepted for value. We could have a whole thread devoted to acceptance for value. It is utterly incredible - in a nutshell, it involves taking a bill, and turning it into cash with some banking ju-jitsu, and then returning it as the payment for the debt.


 
You are a clown.

"Accepted for Value" is a reference to a real concept in Contract Law. It is a description of what happens when a debtor offers the holder of the debt something (usually a lower sum of money) instead of full repayment of the debt and the holder of the debt agrees to that. The holder of the debt agrees to accept your new offer for the value of the money originally owed. It is the formation of a new contract superseding the old one. For that to happen has to be agreement between both parties.

You cannot unilaterally force someone else to accept your offer. There is no "banking ju-jitsu" that allows you to get around the need for agreement. The only accurate part of your post quote above is the sentence "It is utterly incredible". It is incredible because it isn't true.

But please, I don't want you to think that you have to take my word for this. You should feel free to experiment with fraud to whatever extent you feel inclined. If you choose to do so, for all that I recommend that you do not, please do us all the favour of posting up an account of the results.


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## Jazzz (Nov 5, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> You are a clown.
> 
> "Accepted for Value" is a reference to a real concept in Contract Law. It is a description of what happens when a debtor offers the holder of the debt something (usually a lower sum of money) instead of full repayment of the debt and the holder of the debt agrees to that. The holder of the debt agrees to accept your new offer for the value of the money originally owed. It is the formation of a new contract superseding the old one. For that to happen has to be agreement between both parties.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, but the whole point is that - _as the theory goes_ - the creditor/debtor position is actually the inverse of the one we think it is. Briefly, this is my understanding of it. All the corporations are joined at the hip - this includes your 'strawman' (commercial entity which is known by your name) and all the government bodies. As there is a national debt which can never be repaid, this corporate entity is bankrupt. The creditors of the bankruptcy are the flesh and blood humans who have actually created everything. So, these bills presented to you are actually those of the corporation humbly requesting that you (the flesh & blood creditor) forgive the debt. So when you 'accept for value' you (as the flesh & blood human) are actually accepting the offer of the bill issuer and forgiving the debt so they can be a little less bankrupt! However, what we normally do is transfer debt money - which someone has taken out at interest from the banks - thereby increasing the total debt.

That's as good as I understand it right now pretty much. I did say it was incredible


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## butchersapron (Nov 5, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> You are a clown.
> 
> "Accepted for Value" is a reference to a real concept in Contract Law. It is a description of what happens when a debtor offers the holder of the debt something (usually a lower sum of money) instead of full repayment of the debt and the holder of the debt agrees to that. The holder of the debt agrees to accept your new offer for the value of the money originally owed. It is the formation of a new contract superseding the old one. For that to happen has to be agreement between both parties.
> 
> ...


Do read the arse end of this thread for similar fantasies.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Nov 6, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Yes, but the whole point is that - _as the theory goes_ - the creditor/debtor position is actually the inverse of the one we think it is. Briefly, this is my understanding of it. All the corporations are joined at the hip - this includes your 'strawman' (commercial entity which is known by your name) and all the government bodies. As there is a national debt which can never be repaid, this corporate entity is bankrupt. The creditors of the bankruptcy are the flesh and blood humans who have actually created everything. So, these bills presented to you are actually those of the corporation humbly requesting that you (the flesh & blood creditor) forgive the debt. So when you 'accept for value' you (as the flesh & blood human) are actually accepting the offer of the bill issuer and forgiving the debt so they can be a little less bankrupt! However, what we normally do is transfer debt money - which someone has taken out at interest from the banks - thereby increasing the total debt.
> 
> That's as good as I understand it right now pretty much. I did say it was incredible


 
The problem with all of this is that it isn't true. Any of it. It was made up my American scam artists trying to get some money out of resentful, desperate and ignorant people and then latched on to by resentful, desperate and ignorant cranks. There is no "strawman" entity which really owes your debts. There is no universal conspiracy consisting of all of these imaginary "strawmen" companies, along with all of the corporations, all judges and lawyers and the government itself dedicated to conning you into paying back debts that you have in fact entered into. There is no "humble request" from the people you owe money to for you to forgive a debt that they owe to you. Because there is no debt that they owe to you.

It's worth noting that the original variant of this scam was rooted in rather particular claims about the American legal system, involving an origin myth in which "Common Law" was replaced by "Admiralty Law". As cranks have exported the idea to different jurisdictions, the few of them who are bothered by issues of coherence in the first place have had to come up with all kinds of other origin myths to explain why this or something analogous happened in their own countries. Sometimes they don't even bother with the new origin myth and just parrot garbled nonsense based on paranoid fantasies about American law.

I know that you are pretty much a born sucker when it comes to this sort of gibberish, but do yourself a favour just this once and actually think. Most of the tinfoil hat foolishness you love so much is essentially harmless. This stuff could really fuck your life up if you start acting on it. It is a fantasy created by entrepreneurs in the business of selling false hope to desperate people.


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## laptop (Nov 6, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> This... is a fantasy created by entrepreneurs in the business of selling false hope to desperate people.


 
Whoa. I hadn't looked beyond the conspiranoid level. It's an _actual meta-conspiracy_?

Have any of these entrepreneurs been prosecuted, yet?

I feel a novel coming on. I don't think Umberto Eco will mind. Shame the settings will probably be offices above disused strip-malls, not the real publishing house in a little square in Venice that must be the inspiration for _Foucault's Pendulum_...


----------



## Jazzz (Nov 6, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> I know that you are pretty much a born sucker when it comes to this sort of gibberish, but do yourself a favour just this once and actually think. Most of the tinfoil hat foolishness you love so much is essentially harmless. This stuff could really fuck your life up if you start acting on it. It is a fantasy created by entrepreneurs in the business of selling false hope to desperate people.


So far, I've seen about £70K of debt held off with 'freeman' stuff. Not A4V though, and I haven't seen an account reset to zero.

I think your warning should stand though here. I don't want to recommend anyone else tries it on the basis of anything I have posted.


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## littlebabyjesus (Nov 6, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> The problem with all of this is that it isn't true. Any of it. It was made up my American scam artists trying to get some money out of resentful, desperate and ignorant people and then latched on to by resentful, desperate and ignorant cranks. There is no "strawman" entity which really owes your debts. There is no universal conspiracy consisting of all of these imaginary "strawmen" companies, along with all of the corporations, all judges and lawyers and the government itself dedicated to conning you into paying back debts that you have in fact entered into. There is no "humble request" from the people you owe money to for you to forgive a debt that they owe to you. Because there is no debt that they owe to you.


There is an unrepayable debt. That's the whole basis of the money system. So, for instance, here in the UK, the modern pound sterling is based on a debt taken out by the crown to a bunch of investors who founded the Bank of England. There's nothing particularly mystifying or sinister about it, though.


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## butchersapron (Nov 6, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> So far, I've seen about £70K of debt held off with 'freeman' stuff. Not A4V though, and I haven't seen an account reset to zero.


No you haven't


----------



## Nigel Irritable (Nov 6, 2012)

laptop said:


> Whoa. I hadn't looked beyond the conspiranoid level. It's an _actual meta-conspiracy_?
> 
> Have any of these entrepreneurs been prosecuted, yet?


 
A Judge in Canada wrote an extremely detailed account of its history, origins and the legal travails of many of its founding figures as part of a judgment a couple of months ago. I think someone already linked to it in this thread.

http://www.canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html

It seems to have been written with the express intention of explaining to other Judges and lawyers what these incoherent crazies are babbling about, what they think they are doing, and why it has no legal basis whatsoever. It's very useful. Of course, you'll never convince the kind of people who latch onto this shit to read it.

The short answer to your question is that there is not one centrally organised "conspiracy". Rather these techniques originated with various entrepreneurs and gurus, although they do draw from each other's ideas and techniques. One of the features of these sort of movements is that the same techniques and magic words show up being used by people who subscribe to wildly different "origin myths" to explain their power. Some of these gurus have indeed been prosecuted, and details can be found in the case report above.

By this stage it seems that these ideas have something of a life of their own and are spread by "honest" cranks as well as entrepreneurs.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Nov 6, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> The creditors of the bankruptcy are the flesh and blood humans who have actually created everything. So, these bills presented to you are actually those of the corporation humbly requesting that you (the flesh & blood creditor) forgive the debt. So when you 'accept for value' you (as the flesh & blood human) are actually accepting the offer of the bill issuer and forgiving the debt so they can be a little less bankrupt! However, what we normally do is transfer debt money - which someone has taken out at interest from the banks - thereby increasing the total debt.


 
I would take issue with this characterisation. You are 'humbly requested' not to demand your 10 quid from the crown, but that's not a problem as long as everyone recognises the symbolic value of the denomination. Money can only operate with confidence, after all - money exists in our heads, essentially. But I don't quite see why you have such a problem with this. It works as a system of exchange. And you omit to mention that the person borrowing from the bank will also be repaying to the bank, thereby destroying that money again. Money represents debt, and repaying the debt destroys the money. The national currency is created by the state taking out a debt, and that particular debt cannot ever be repaid as it is the basis of our money system. Again, there's not particular problem with this.


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## Jazzz (Nov 6, 2012)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I would take issue with this characterisation. You are 'humbly requested' not to demand your 10 quid from the crown, but that's not a problem as long as everyone recognises the symbolic value of the denomination. Money can only operate with confidence, after all - money exists in our heads, essentially. But I don't quite see why you have such a problem with this. It works as a system of exchange. And you omit to mention that the person borrowing from the bank will also be repaying to the bank, thereby destroying that money again. Money represents debt, and repaying the debt destroys the money. The national currency is created by the state taking out a debt, and that particular debt cannot ever be repaid as it is the basis of our money system. Again, there's not particular problem with this.


I think discussion on whether the money system is okay or not is one for another thread - we've already had it a few times, sure we'll have it again. But this is about whether commercial redemption processes have any basis or are completely hatstand. Due to A4V being utterly bizarre and highly complex you might have to ride with a few things a bit, like entertaining the assumption that there is a global financial conspiracy.

Indeed with the abolishing of the gold/silver standard, money simply exists as debt. As we pay for things in the normal way, we are simply shuffling debt around (and increasing it to the bank via interest which isn't created when loans are taken out). So, _the only way any debt can really be paid_ is for the debt to be forgiven. It does seem back to front!


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## Jazzz (Nov 6, 2012)

Here's an A4V success - nice pic of the zeroed account - on the getoutofdebtfree.org site:

http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=40439


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## Giles (Nov 6, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Thanks Giles. I feel my understanding of the freeman movement, if not compete, exceeds that of your reference.
> 
> "it is true that we generally consent to being part of the country that we live in" it appears that you are saying this as if it happens simply by us being here. That's not the case. An example off the top of my head - Julian Assange is currently within our shores, yet is within the jurisdiction of Ecuador.
> 
> ...




Why do people think it is a good or honourable thing anyway to try to find sneaky quasi-legal fiddles to avoid paying their share of taxes, debts that they openly got into, and avoid driving legally etc?

If most people did this (and if it worked) what would happen?

You'd get ill, go to a hospital, and find it closed, because everyone wrote "A4V" on their tax bills, surely?

It seems that all of these "magic" techniques are, at heart, just supposed ways of cheating people out of money.

A bit like, for example, me setting up a business, taking people's money off them for some product that I promise to deliver in a month's time, then me just trousering all the money and putting the business into receivership. And telling them that I have legally no obligation to pay them anything.

Why do you suppose that "they" have created this gaping hole in the law that supposedly entitles anyone using the correct "magic" (freely vailable for download from numerous web sites) to renege on pretty much any financial commitment that they have?

And do you think it would generally be "a good thing" for you to successfully avoid paying for anything?

Giles..


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## Blagsta (Nov 6, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Here's an A4V success - nice pic of the zeroed account - on the getoutofdebtfree.org site:
> 
> http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=40439


 
Jazzz, if you ever go to Paris, that big metal tower?  It's not for sale, OK?


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## laptop (Nov 6, 2012)

Blagsta said:


> Jazzz, if you ever go to Paris, that big metal tower? It's not for sale, OK?


 
He doesn't need it.


He already owns this:


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## laptop (Nov 6, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> A Judge in Canada wrote an extremely detailed account of its history, origins and the legal travails of many of its founding figures as part of a judgment a couple of months ago. I think someone already linked to it in this thread.
> 
> http://www.canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html
> 
> It seems to have been written with the express intention of explaining to other Judges and lawyers what these incoherent crazies are babbling about, what they think they are doing, and why it has no legal basis whatsoever. It's very useful. Of course, you'll never convince the kind of people who latch onto this shit to read it.


 
Thanks, yes. Bookmarked: I have several other judgements to read first 

From what I have read, Associate Chief Justice J.D. Rooke would be an ornament to these boards and appears to have been having a sort of pedantic fun with which I can identify 



Nigel Irritable said:


> The short answer to your question is that there is not one centrally organised "conspiracy". Rather these techniques originated with various entrepreneurs and gurus, although they do draw from each other's ideas and techniques. One of the features of these sort of movements is that the same techniques and magic words show up being used by people who subscribe to wildly different "origin myths" to explain their power. Some of these gurus have indeed been prosecuted, and details can be found in the case report above.


 
My "meta-conspiracy" was a kind of joke 



Nigel Irritable said:


> By this stage it seems that these ideas have something of a life of their own and are spread by "honest" cranks as well as entrepreneurs.


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## butchersapron (Nov 6, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Here's an A4V success - nice pic of the zeroed account - on the getoutofdebtfree.org site:
> 
> http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=40439


Can you expand on this please?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 6, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> A Judge in Canada wrote an extremely detailed account of its history, origins and the legal travails of many of its founding figures as part of a judgment a couple of months ago. I think someone already linked to it in this thread.
> 
> http://www.canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html
> 
> ...


 
I see the 'freeman' in this case appears to be trying to avoid having to pay child support to his ex wife. Really challenging the establishment there.


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## Jon-of-arc (Nov 6, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Here's an A4V success - nice pic of the zeroed account - on the getoutofdebtfree.org site:
> 
> http://www.getoutofdebtfree.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=135&t=40439



How on earth can you possibly be convinced by someone showing a bill which looks to have been payed is actually a company writing a debt off because the person allegedly told some bailiffs to fuck off? Where in that letter does it say what you are claiming has happened?  That letter doesn't even show a company name. You are convinced by that, but not the Obama birth cert? I could knock up an exact forgery of that in seconds. 

Mental.


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## Jeff Robinson (Nov 6, 2012)

The Free Man of the Lands are awesome. I love the way they are really thick and weird and selfish nobodies.


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## Jon-of-arc (Nov 6, 2012)

Nigel Irritable said:


> A Judge in Canada wrote an extremely detailed account of its history, origins and the legal travails of many of its founding figures as part of a judgment a couple of months ago. I think someone already linked to it in this thread.
> 
> http://www.canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html
> .



"This category of litigant shares one other critical characteristic: they will only honour state, regulatory, contract, family, fiduciary, equitable, and criminal obligations if they feel like it. And typically, they don’t."

Lol!


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## two sheds (Nov 6, 2012)

quoting from http://www.canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html again:



> I will now briefly outline my understanding of the meaning of certain of Mr. Meads’ actions and statements:
> 
> 1. Mr. Meads clearly subscribes to the OPCA ["Organized Pseudolegal Commercial Argument"] concept that he has two aspects, what I later discuss as the ‘double/split person’ concept. ... labels one aspect as a “person” or “corporate entity” while the other is his “flesh and blood” form.
> 
> ...


 
 - and quite correct that they're labeled as 'vexatious litigants' - exactly what they turn into.


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## Jazzz (Nov 6, 2012)

Jon-of-arc said:


> How on earth can you possibly be convinced by someone showing a bill which looks to have been payed is actually a company writing a debt off because the person allegedly told some bailiffs to fuck off? Where in that letter does it say what you are claiming has happened? That letter doesn't even show a company name. You are convinced by that, but not the Obama birth cert? I could knock up an exact forgery of that in seconds.
> 
> Mental.


Well, it could be fake. Certainly looks a better scan than the birth certificate you mention 
The details specify that no payments were received, but the account was adjusted to zero. So that is in keeping with the claim.


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## fogbat (Nov 6, 2012)

Get help.


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## Jazzz (Nov 6, 2012)

two sheds said:


> quoting from http://www.canlii.ca/en/ab/abqb/doc/2012/2012abqb571/2012abqb571.html again:


 
This is the Justice John Rooke that called rape victims 'stupid' - great stuff!
http://www.nowpublic.com/culture/judge-calls-rape-victim-stupid


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## laptop (Nov 6, 2012)

> OPCA litigants appear, engage in a court drama that is more akin to a magic spell ritual than an actual legal proceeding, and wait to see if the court is entranced and compliant. If not, the litigant returns home to scrutinize at what point the wrong incantation was uttered, an incorrectly prepared artifact waved or submitted.


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## laptop (Nov 6, 2012)

I skived from my other reading.



> *E.        OPCA Gurus*
> 
> [669]      In his poem _Inferno_ at Cantos 26-30, Dante placed the “evil counsellors” ‑ those who used their position to advise others to engage in fraud, and “the falsifiers” ‑ alchemists, counterfeiters, perjurers, and imposters, into the inner canyons of the eighth circle of hell. As sinners, the evil counsellors and falisifiers were matched by those who induce religious schisms, and surpassed only in fault by oath‑breakers.
> 
> ...


 
Like the range of citations


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## Jon-of-arc (Nov 7, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Well, it could be fake. Certainly looks a better scan than the birth certificate you mention
> The details specify that no payments were received, but the account was adjusted to zero. So that is in keeping with the claim.



Where does it show that the account was "adjusted" to zero? It shows a credit od 3k. A credit as if youd just paid your bill. Or perhaps they overcharged the guy and deleted the wrong charge. They dont tend to let you rack up unpaid bills of 3 grand, either.


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## BigTom (Nov 7, 2012)

Jon-of-arc said:


> Where does it show that the account was "adjusted" to zero? It shows a credit od 3k. A credit as if youd just paid your bill. Or perhaps they overcharged the guy and deleted the wrong charge. They dont tend to let you rack up unpaid bills of 3 grand, either.


 
The bit about death certificate and general executioner to the estate make me think the bill payer has died with no estate and that's why the debt has been written off.


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## Delroy Booth (Nov 7, 2012)

Jazz I once got £50 put into my bank account coz I went into RBS one day after they'd changed my overdraft limit without sending a letter, fucking up all my direct debits and leaving me potless etc, and acted the dickhead. Complained about everything. Refused to leave. Made a right prick of myself. Just because someone got a magistrate or bailiff or some other functionary to leave them alone after ranting a load of vexatious freeman of the land crap at them means absolutely nothing, even if it was all true, which is unlikely.

It definitely had nothing to do with a arcane conspiracy of corporations and banks trying to enslave the world with debt, nor was I calling leviathans bluff and proving that I was a sovereign state incarnate. I can't believe you buy into this absolute horseshit.


----------



## Delroy Booth (Nov 7, 2012)




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## Pingu (Nov 7, 2012)

i love reading these threads.

it makes me feel like my views are actually in touch with reality


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## ExtraRefined (Nov 7, 2012)

BigTom said:


> The bit about death certificate and general executioner to the estate make me think the bill payer has died with no estate and that's why the debt has been written off.


 
I don't think so, it seems this is one of their bonkers ploys, where they claim that JOHN SMITH is dead, and they are John of Smith.

I'm not sure why the FoTL lot attract so much vitriol. At least on the getoutofdebtfree.org forum, they seem to just be deluded, naive and desperate; not malicious. The people they're picking fights with are for the most part bailiffs and corporations, an approach which I'd expect to get more sympathy, even if they are loonies.


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## BigTom (Nov 7, 2012)

ExtraRefined said:


> I don't think so, it seems this is one of their bonkers ploys, where they claim that JOHN SMITH is dead, and they are John of Smith.
> 
> I'm not sure why the FoTL lot attract so much vitriol. At least on the getoutofdebtfree.org forum, they seem to just be deluded, naive and desperate; not malicious. The people they're picking fights with are for the most part bailiffs and corporations, an approach which I'd expect to get more sympathy, even if they are loonies.


 
The problem isn't who they are picking fights with but that there's going to be a lot of desperate people who try this shit and it doesn't (and in any legal sense can't) work and they end up in much worse situations than they would have been if they'd gone about things in the normal way.


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## Jon-of-arc (Nov 7, 2012)

ExtraRefined said:


> I don't think so, it seems this is one of their bonkers ploys, where they claim that JOHN SMITH is dead, and they are John of Smith.
> 
> I'm not sure why the FoTL lot attract so much vitriol. At least on the getoutofdebtfree.org forum, they seem to just be deluded, naive and desperate; not malicious. The people they're picking fights with are for the most part bailiffs and corporations, an approach which I'd expect to get more sympathy, even if they are loonies.



Personally, I couldn't care less if fotl types want to go and make twats of themselves in court. That bit is sort of funny, in a really cringeworthy way. Sort of embarrassed on their behalf, but I can't help smiling at the thought of them turning courtrooms into circuses, with idiot judges just not knowing what to make of it all, and often failing to get a handle on the situation. The op video is a case in point.

What I do object to is being asked to believe it myself. This is essentially having a really thick person call you thick. Patronising, insulting, frustrating. Frustrating because, even in the face of overwhelming evidence, these people cannot see that their views are bollocks.  Unlike other conspiracy theory stuff, a central tenet of which is usually that the theory is undisprovable, this freeman shit is based upon lies that can be shown to be lies, as we have the true basis for our laws written down in handy statute books. Yet they go on believing it, and calling you an idiot for not believing it.

There is also the frequently mentioned individualist right wing libertarian aspect to their shtick, which is politically objectionable. Especially when they try to dress it up as some new agey, hippy, freedom loving revolution thing.

Finally, the other scary thing about them is that they are quite willing to pass their dangerous nut shit onto others, many of whom are desperate, or possibly vulnerable. For someone down on their luck, this shit can be quite appealing, like a religious cult, but will ultimately end up hurting that person, again, like a religious cult. For this reason alone, it is important to consistently highlight that what fotls are offering is nothing more than legal snake oil.


----------



## Jazzz (Nov 7, 2012)

Delroy Booth said:


> Jazz I once got £50 put into my bank account coz I went into RBS one day after they'd changed my overdraft limit without sending a letter, fucking up all my direct debits and leaving me potless etc, and acted the dickhead. Complained about everything. Refused to leave. Made a right prick of myself. Just because someone got a magistrate or bailiff or some other functionary to leave them alone after ranting a load of vexatious freeman of the land crap at them means absolutely nothing, even if it was all true, which is unlikely.
> 
> It definitely had nothing to do with a arcane conspiracy of corporations and banks trying to enslave the world with debt, nor was I calling leviathans bluff and proving that I was a sovereign state incarnate. I can't believe you buy into this absolute horseshit.


Mate, the reason it has become something of a movement is that people ARE having results with it - however exactly it is working. Now unquestionably, there is a lot of absolute nonsense out there. However I have myself seen high court bailliffs give up and someone's business really saved by the effect of 'freeman' stuff.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 8, 2012)

No you haven't.


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## Dan U (Nov 8, 2012)

from that judgement



> The famous are not immune; for example the American action movie actor Wesley Snipes adopted OPCA techniques in an attempt to defeat his income tax obligations: *United State v. Wesley Trent Snipes et al.*, No. 5:06‑cr‑00022‑WTH‑GRJ‑1 (U.S.D.C. M.D. Fl., February 1, 2008). Snipes presently is serving a three year prison sentence for income tax evasion.


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## captainmission (Nov 8, 2012)

Jazzz said:


> Mate, the reason it has become something of a movement is that people ARE having results with it - however exactly it is working. Now unquestionably, there is a lot of absolute nonsense out there. However I have myself seen high court bailliffs give up and someone's business really saved by the effect of 'freeman' stuff.


 
Out of these 2 which do you think is more likely;

1)  that there's a distinction between 'legal' and 'true' people? and every magistrate, justice and JP in any common law juristiction secretly know this? And they're waiting for the correct legal incantation to be preformed at which point they're rendered powerless like rumplestitskin hearing his true name? And not one of them has broken ranks and revealed this? And not a single lawyer, solicitor or legal advisor out of the millions there are in the world have ever stumbled across this fact? And it falls to a squalid bunch of petty tories, whose stunted imaginations extends no further than dreaming of a world where they don't have to pay water bills or child support, to reveal this?

or,

2) debts are hard to enforce against people with no money and no assets. A creditor may not want to take court action because they don't believe they'll be able to recover the money even if they do get a judgement, or they don't want the terms of their contracts exposed to the scrutiny of a court, and they need to pay an up fee for using the court. Bailiffs collecting on certain debts will not have the power of forceful entry. If there's no assets outside the property and the debtor denies them entry there is little they can do but give up. Even where a bailiff can force entry they are often not particularly keen to use this power because the resale value of the assets are rarely worth their time and effort.

and that some one who is prone to magical thinking has mistaken the outcome of these real world impracticalities, financial risk assessment or poor administration to his anti-legal wizardry?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 30, 2013)

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2008/0805.carey.html

I came across this following a link from here. An example of black drug dealers using a 'freeman' type defence developed by white supremacists to try and beat a number of murder and conspiracy charges. 

Although this was written before the conclusion of the trial they got sentences ranging from life plus 60 years to nine life sentences plus 60 years. They did avoid the death penalty though which the article speculates could be partially down to their being obstructive. On the other hand their coordinated use of the freeman defence was used against them as evidence of conspiracy.


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## butchersapron (Mar 30, 2013)

I just watched the first minute of the vid in the OP, the text stuff explaining their case. There is an embarrassing error right at the heart of it. They say:



> There is NO law that demands that man or a woman should have to pay council tax. There is only the 1992 Local Government Finance Act, which being an act of parliament can only be enforced with consent.


 
Unfortunately for them, the consent required _is that of parliament_, not of individuals, and has been given by the passing of the Act itself, which then becomes  law.


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## laptop (Mar 30, 2013)

Er, as far as it's worth understanding, their assertion is that the Social Contract is an actual contract - and moreover that it contains a clause allowing them to repudiate it.

Which invites the response from some judge faced with their interminable fuckwittery: "Surely the repudiation clause must be symmetrical. I therefore suspend your civil rights, and jail you indefinitely."


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## andysays (Mar 30, 2013)

laptop said:


> Er, as far as it's worth understanding, *their assertion is that the Social Contract is an actual contract* - and moreover that it contains a clause allowing them to repudiate it


 
I look forward to them producing that as Exhibit A for the defence...


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## kavenism (Mar 30, 2013)

laptop said:


> Er, as far as it's worth understanding, their assertion is that the Social Contract is an actual contract - and moreover that it contains a clause allowing them to repudiate it.
> 
> Which invites the response from some judge faced with their interminable fuckwittery: "Surely the repudiation clause must be symmetrical. I therefore suspend your civil rights, and jail you indefinitely."


 

If only. As far as these venal fuckwits are concerned I'd be happy to see a labour camp set up in Hyde Park to house them while they're subjected to a hail of sloppy cornets and ranting from their fellow loonbarrows at speakers corner.


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## kimbo000 (Sep 8, 2016)

xes said:


> This dude has beaten the court system, and now doesn't pay council tax. How they got Andy Peters to do the commentry is beyond me
> 
> he got a layman to represent him in court, it was thrown out within 15 minutes. Play them at their own game of loopholes and wankery. It fucking works.  (this is what I've been waiting for, for a looong time)
> 
> ...





xes said:


> This dude has beaten the court system, and now doesn't pay council tax. How they got Andy Peters to do the commentry is beyond me
> 
> he got a layman to represent him in court, it was thrown out within 15 minutes. Play them at their own game of loopholes and wankery. It fucking works.  (this is what I've been waiting for, for a looong time)
> 
> ...





Yes mate all i can say is i have been on the other end of this also.. i was a squatter in Bristol.. taking over some big abandoned buildings and re housing lots of homeless, One day tho our doors were kicked through and around 9 massive heavys that were semi balaclava'd had broken in.. they threatened us , had dogs tazers and weapons .. we had 10 mins to leave .. they were a common law security firm.. the police arrived but refused to get involved as they DID NOT KNOW COMMON LAW and called it a civil matter.. with that saw around 20 people kicked on to the street, They get involved when they feel like it , END OF


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## Whtstruistru (Jul 5, 2019)

To all I say go to the fmotl website!! Or read the book entitled 'Freedom is more than a seven letter word'   I was sceptical about this but have been proven by my own experiences!!  First read up and then judge someone for their views/beliefs!!  
	  Quote " You are a prisoner Neo! Your prison has no bars! It is a prison for your mind!"


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## 8ball (Jul 5, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> To all I say go to the fmotl website!! Or read the book entitled 'Freedom is more than a seven letter word'   I was sceptical about this but have been proven by my own experiences!!  First read up and then judge someone for their views/beliefs!!
> Quote " You are a prisoner Neo! Your prison has no bars! It is a prison for your mind!"



Ooh!  Can I have some free stuff please?
Got any merch?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 5, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> To all I say go to the fmotl website!! Or read the book entitled 'Freedom is more than a seven letter word'   I was sceptical about this but have been proven by my own experiences!!  First read up and then judge someone for their views/beliefs!!
> Quote " You are a prisoner Neo! Your prison has no bars! It is a prison for your mind!"



AFAIK Neo didn't pay any parking fines or his TV licence in any of the films. You might be onto something here.


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## 8ball (Jul 5, 2019)

I've just looked at the fmotl website - it's all just words - where's the free stuff? 
I want a newsletter and a t-shirt and a mug and some pens.


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## Whtstruistru (Jul 5, 2019)

Here are two books (pdf) study them carefully......
Also lawful rebellion into Google  loads on there
I hope they enlighten you all


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## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 5, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> To all I say go to the fmotl website!! Or read the book entitled 'Freedom is more than a seven letter word'   I was sceptical about this but have been proven by my own experiences!!  First read up and then judge someone for their views/beliefs!!
> Quote " You are a prisoner Neo! Your prison has no bars! It is a prison for your mind!"


Oh just fuck off already.


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## JimW (Jul 5, 2019)

We've got a live one!


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## JimW (Jul 5, 2019)

Let the tedium begin!


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## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2019)

fmotl could be an acronym for 'fuck my old tin legs'


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## belboid (Jul 5, 2019)

Mary Croft said:
			
		

> In the middle of the night I was awakened by a voice saying, “Secret Oral Teachings”.



I'm not entirely sure of the relevance to FotLing, but it sounds fun anyway.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 5, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Here are two books (pdf) study them carefully......
> Also lawful rebellion into Google  loads on there
> I hope they enlighten you all



Thanks! I love Mary Croft - she's well fit in Tomb Raider.
Got any Mary Croft t-shirts?


----------



## joustmaster (Jul 5, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Oh just fuck off already.


Oh, come on... Please lets be nice. I want to keep them.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 5, 2019)

8ball said:


> Thanks! I love Mary Croft - she's well fit in Tomb Raider.
> Got any Mary Croft t-shirts?



Not to be confused with Mary Toft - Wikipedia


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 5, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Quote " You are a prisoner Neo! Your prison has no bars! It is a prison for your mind!"



What if it's a simulation _within a simulation? 
_
There's a secret cheat code to get back to reality though. You just have to eat six light bulbs.


----------



## JimW (Jul 5, 2019)

I love to wander around the new industrial zones of China and catch the young people coming off shift to tell them the prison is only in their mind.


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2019)

DotCommunist said:


> fmotl could be an acronym for 'fuck my old tin legs'



Free manure on the lads.

Freedom modelled on the lemmings.

Felt marvellous, only to lose.


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2019)

Funny man owns losing tactics.

edit - Oops that last bit is the wrong way round.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 5, 2019)

elbows said:


> Free manure on the lads.
> 
> Freedom modelled on the lemmings.
> 
> Felt marvellous, only to lose.



FEED ME OWLS, TIMOTHY LEARY!!


----------



## JimW (Jul 5, 2019)

Face magistrate, offer total loonjuice.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 5, 2019)

JimW said:


> Face magistrate, offer total loonjuice.



Ha  - very good.


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 5, 2019)

Five monkeys, one typewriter, lunacy.


----------



## Cid (Jul 5, 2019)

There once was a group called fmotl,
Who kept in a fish tank an axolotl,
The creature within
thought its capture a sin
And broke all their skulls with a bottle


----------



## Gromit (Jul 5, 2019)

joustmaster said:


> Oh, come on... Please lets be nice. I want to keep them.


You'll have to feed them, walk them etc. It's a big responsibility. You sure you're ready for a pet?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 5, 2019)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Not to be confused with Mary Toft - Wikipedia



I always wondered where the phrase "pulling rabbits out of a twat" came from.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 5, 2019)

Gromit said:


> You'll have to feed them, walk them etc. It's a big responsibility. You sure you're ready for a pet?



This one's already looking a little peaky.


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2019)

Failed monk offers tame lightning.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 5, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> What if it's a simulation _within a simulation?
> _
> There's a secret cheat code to get back to reality though. You just have to eat six light bulbs.



and shout "man overboard!" cos maritime law.


----------



## JimW (Jul 5, 2019)

Fuck me, old Terry's lostit.


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2019)

Felony man on the lam.


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 5, 2019)

Fuckwittery , Myth, Obscure Tosh & Lies


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2019)

future machine overlords terminate loads


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 5, 2019)

Futile mumbling of total loser.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jul 5, 2019)

Floundering manoeuvres of troubled litigants.


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2019)

Fund my omitted tax lifestyle.


----------



## JimW (Jul 5, 2019)

Farcical misapprehensions of the law.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 5, 2019)

Failed miserably, one tosser less


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2019)

Fumbled misunderstanding of true life.


----------



## moochedit (Jul 5, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> To all I say go to the fmotl website!! Or read the book entitled 'Freedom is more than a seven letter word'   I was sceptical about this but have been proven by my own experiences!!  First read up and then judge someone for their views/beliefs!!
> Quote " You are a prisoner Neo! Your prison has no bars! It is a prison for your mind!"



Hi Firky


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2019)

Fetid moribund oblivion turds lament


----------



## 8ball (Jul 5, 2019)

Urban is showing strong acronym mojo today.


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2019)

8ball said:


> Urban is showing strong acronym mojo today.



When we are born the state gives us all an acronym, which they stamp onto a rizla and then insert into our third bottom. This is a bottom we are all born with but the government confiscate it straight away, in case we use it to speak the truth.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 5, 2019)

Foolish man owned, tout court


----------



## Sprocket. (Jul 5, 2019)

Febrile mismanagement obscures Tory lies.


----------



## elbows (Jul 5, 2019)

Fermented men oblivious to libraries


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 5, 2019)

Flawed mentality of the liberal


----------



## belboid (Jul 5, 2019)

Fucking morons on the loose


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 5, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/features/2008/0805.carey.html
> 
> I came across this following a link from here. An example of black drug dealers using a 'freeman' type defence developed by white supremacists to try and beat a number of murder and conspiracy charges.
> 
> Although this was written before the conclusion of the trial they got sentences ranging from life plus 60 years to nine life sentences plus 60 years. They did avoid the death penalty though which the article speculates could be partially down to their being obstructive. On the other hand their coordinated use of the freeman defence was used against them as evidence of conspiracy.



In terms of ever breathing free air, life plus 60 years is a death sentence.

I sometimes wonder what those sentenced to life without parole would do if offered death.


----------



## Gromit (Jul 5, 2019)

There were two guys in work telling others about birth certificates being a con etc. 
You need to watch this YouTube video that explains it all etc.

I didnt realize that this was Freeman of the land wackadoodle at the time.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 5, 2019)

Gromit said:


> There were two guys in work telling others about birth certificates being a con etc.



They most definitely are.
Put any person in front of me and I can tell you pretty instantly whether they were born.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 5, 2019)

At the end of the day it's what You believe that matters........ 
	   Do what you want to do and choose what you want to do!! Nobody can do that for you!!
	 People who believe they are truly free are the ones hopelessly enslaved!!


----------



## Treacle Toes (Jul 5, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> People who believe they are truly free are the ones hopelessly enslaved!!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 5, 2019)

The greatest discovery of any generation is that a living soul can alter his life by altering his 
attitude. – William James


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 5, 2019)

“In the same way, ordinary sighted people who are given the opportunity to ‘see’ the world often refuse 
to look at what is really happening. They prefer their ‘blindness’: being told what to think and do by 
others. It does no good to show these people what the truth is; they simply do not want to see it. The old 
habits of prejudice and subjection to ‘authority figures’ is much too comfortable. “It is ignorance that causes us to identify ourselves with the body, the ego, the senses, or anything that 
is not the Higher Consciousness. He is a wise man who overcomes this ignorance by devotion to the 
Higher Consciousness. – Shankara, The Crest Jewel of Wisdom”


----------



## fishfinger (Jul 5, 2019)

These are really shit fortune cookies.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 5, 2019)

The ‘System’
The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy, and when you’re inside, and look around, what 
do you see? Businessmen, Teachers, Lawyers, Carpenters, the very minds of the people we are trying to 
save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have 
to understand: most of these people are not ready to be unplugged, and many of them are so inured, so 
hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it. – Morpheus – The Matrix


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 6, 2019)

Has it done ‘sheeple’ yet?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 6, 2019)

No idea what drugs you are on, but I would like some.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 6, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> The ‘System’
> The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy, and when you’re inside, and look around, what
> do you see? Businessmen, Teachers, Lawyers, Carpenters, the very minds of the people we are trying to
> save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have
> ...



Fuck is wrong with teachers and carpenters?


----------



## magneze (Jul 6, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Fuck is wrong with teachers and carpenters?


They're part of The System.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 6, 2019)

magneze said:


> They're part of The System.



With Caps locked.....please.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 6, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> At the end of the day it's what You believe that matters........
> Do what you want to do and choose what you want to do!! Nobody can do that for you!!
> People who believe they are truly free are the ones hopelessly enslaved!!


No, what is true is what matters. Now fuck off.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 6, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> The greatest discovery of any generation is that a living soul can alter his life by altering his
> attitude. – William James


This can fuck off as well.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 6, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> “In the same way, ordinary sighted people who are given the opportunity to ‘see’ the world often refuse
> to look at what is really happening. They prefer their ‘blindness’: being told what to think and do by
> others. It does no good to show these people what the truth is; they simply do not want to see it. The old
> habits of prejudice and subjection to ‘authority figures’ is much too comfortable. “It is ignorance that causes us to identify ourselves with the body, the ego, the senses, or anything that
> ...


So can this.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 6, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> The ‘System’
> The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy, and when you’re inside, and look around, what
> do you see? Businessmen, Teachers, Lawyers, Carpenters, the very minds of the people we are trying to
> save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have
> ...


This has got fuck off written all over it.


----------



## magneze (Jul 6, 2019)

beesonthewhatnow? More like beesINTHESYSTEMNOW.


----------



## planetgeli (Jul 6, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> The ‘System’
> The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy, and when you’re inside, and look around, what
> do you see? Businessmen, Teachers, Lawyers, Carpenters, the very minds of the people we are trying to
> save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have
> ...



What about vowels Whtstruistru? Are vowels the enemy too? Or just the A and E vowels?


----------



## Gromit (Jul 6, 2019)

planetgeli said:


> What about vowels Whtstruistru? Are vowels the enemy too?


Uis his only friend.


----------



## chilango (Jul 6, 2019)

planetgeli said:


> What about vowels Whtstruistru? Are vowels the enemy too? Or just the A and E vowels?



Both vowels and consonants it seems.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 6, 2019)

ts bcs f y dnt sy r wrt th vwls thy cnt sy tht y dd. Vwl mns spkn lttr nd lglly wrds witht vwls hvnt n fct bn spkn r wrttn. S thrs n cntrctl blgtn nd th lw cnt tch y


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 6, 2019)

magneze said:


> beesonthewhatnow? More like beesINTHESYSTEMNOW.


Only good system is a sound system etc


----------



## 8ball (Jul 6, 2019)

Gromit said:


> Uis his only friend.



It’s true, I is his friend.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 6, 2019)

Love you all. You are amazing people


----------



## Supine (Jul 6, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> ts bcs f y dnt sy r wrt th vwls thy cnt sy tht y dd. Vwl mns spkn lttr nd lglly wrds witht vwls hvnt n fct bn spkn r wrttn. S thrs n cntrctl blgtn nd th lw cnt tch y



Didn't know you're welsh


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Jul 7, 2019)

Fat man on the lash... A very apt acronym for myself this evening. Cheers all


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Our mind is of 3 categories: what we know, what we don’t know, and what we don’t know we don’t 
know. Not knowing is unfortunate; not knowing that we don’t know is tragic. – W. Erhart. 
Some actually did know about the fraudulent banking system and yet felt already defeated. They 
remain part of the problem by refusing to become part of the solution. 
The ultimate ignorance is the rejection of something you know nothing about and refuse to investigate.
– Dr. Wayne Dyer


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Our mind is of 3 categories: what we know, what we don’t know, and what we don’t know we don’t
> know. Not knowing is unfortunate; not knowing that we don’t know is tragic. – W. Erhart.
> Some actually did know about the fraudulent banking system and yet felt already defeated. They
> remain part of the problem by refusing to become part of the solution.
> ...


Are you into boats and ships and stuff


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Our mind is of 3 categories: what we know, what we don’t know, and what we don’t know we don’t
> know. Not knowing is unfortunate; not knowing that we don’t know is tragic. – W. Erhart.
> Some actually did know about the fraudulent banking system and yet felt already defeated. They
> remain part of the problem by refusing to become part of the solution.
> ...



I do know that fmotl are a bunch of grasping cunts crying about paying tax.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Our mind is of 3 categories: what we know, what we don’t know, and what we don’t know we don’t
> know.



You glossed 'what we know we don't know' and 'what we don't know we know', and made an incomprehensible mess.

I bet you're super enjoying the 50-year moon landing commemorations though eh?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

I have attached all the evidence needed for All to benefit from!! It's not all about taxes!! If you read them thoroughly before making any fool hardy judgement you will then posses the Knowledge of the situation!!!! Yes I am all that everyone can tar me with; idiot, cunt, scrounger, moaner whatever!! I do not care!!


----------



## pinkychukkles (Jul 8, 2019)

Can I get out of paying my council tax?
That's all I want to know.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> I have attached all the evidence needed for All to benefit from!!



So, your work is done here, excellent, now off you fuck.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 8, 2019)

It's like this: if you're a gobby git with a law dictionary and too much time on your hands, you too can do whatever you like and when bailiffs turn up just argue the toss with them till they fuck.off again in exasperation.

It doesn't prove anything, except that bailiffs prefer an easy target.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Oh the feeble minded!! I pity you all!! Just carry on in line working and paying bills and taxes and worrying about DEBT and driving yourselves insane!! Lol   form a que and get in line!!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> It's like this: if you're a gobby git with a law dictionary and too much time on your hands, you too can do whatever you like and when bailiffs turn up just argue the toss with them till they fuck.off again in exasperation.
> 
> It doesn't prove anything, except that bailiffs prefer an easy target.


 Like I said read the information before you judge!! Knowledge is power!!


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Oh the feeble minded!! I pity you all!! Just carry on in line working and paying bills and taxes and worrying about DEBT and driving yourselves insane!! Lol   form a que and get in line!!





Whtstruistru said:


> Like I said read the information before you judge!! Knowledge is power!!



Mate, I've been messing around with this stuff for years. Kept the Student Loans Company at bay for a decade with my ramblings and complaints, and I never paid my student loan back - but this was due to the weakness of the contract, not my skill at magic wordery.

In reality the only reason this kind of defiance gets anywhere is because most people haven't got the patience at work, with no personal investment in the situation, to deal with an adversary who just won't quit. Also most desk workers dealing with debt aren't experts in law and it's not hard to tie them in knots. Managers too.

Get brought in front of a judge, though, and you can forget it. Not one win in all these years. Not one!


----------



## Serge Forward (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Oh the feeble minded!! I pity you all!! Just carry on in line working and paying bills and taxes and worrying about DEBT and driving yourselves insane!! Lol   form a que and get in line!!


I see you're learning Spanish. Anyway, tell us more about the unknown unknowns.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> I see you're learning Spanish. Anyway, tell us more about the unknown unknowns.


Everything you need to know is in my earlier post!!  Apart from all of the so called 'conspiracy theories'  there is lots of that on the deep Web!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> I have attached all the evidence needed for All to benefit from!! It's not all about taxes!! If you read them thoroughly before making any fool hardy judgement you will then posses the Knowledge of the situation!!!! Yes I am all that everyone can tar me with; idiot, cunt, scrounger, moaner whatever!! I do not care!!


What about the maritime stuff, is that important


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 8, 2019)

Donald Rumsfeld has lost the plot a bit these days hasn't he.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> To all I say go to the fmotl website!! Or read the book entitled 'Freedom is more than a seven letter word'   I was sceptical about this but have been proven by my own experiences!!  First read up and then judge someone for their views/beliefs!!
> Quote " You are a prisoner Neo! Your prison has no bars! It is a prison for your mind!"



Well, that's me convinced.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> What about the maritime stuff, is that important


Everything is important! It's all about knowing all that is relevant and disregarding the rest.......


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Everything is important! It's all about knowing all that is relevant and disregarding the rest.......


Tell me about the shipping stuff though, I'm interested


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Oh the feeble minded!! I pity you all!! Just carry on in line working and paying bills and taxes and worrying about DEBT and driving yourselves insane!! Lol   form a *que* and get in line!!




I think you'll find it's a queue. 

So who pays your bills eh?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Lupa said:


> I think you'll find it's a queue.
> 
> So who pays your bills eh?


I have no bills!! I am a FLESH AND BLOOD HUMAN BEING WITH A MIND AND A SOUL!! My LEGAL FICTION however has no debt and has so called 'Financial Stability' and plenty of 'MONEY'


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 8, 2019)

Out come the CAPS


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Well I can see that none of you have any commonsense at all!!  I bid you all farewell!! See you when the revolution comes............


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Well I can see that none of you have any commonsense at all!!  I bid you all farewell!! See you when the revolution comes............


wear something comfy for when you're leaning against a wall


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Lol   form a que and get in line!!


are you from barcelona?


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> My LEGAL FICTION /--



"Legal Fiction" genuinely isn't a thing. A CAPITALISED NAME has no special standing in law, it's capitalised for legibility and consistency. I can assure you that on court applications lower case script works just as well.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> I am a FLESH AND BLOOD HUMAN BEING WITH A MIND AND A SOUL



DEFFO NOT A WOLF. HUMAN. IGNORE THE SMELL OF BLOOD.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> I have no bills!! I am a FLESH AND BLOOD HUMAN BEING WITH A MIND AND A SOUL!! My LEGAL FICTION however has no debt and has so called 'Financial Stability' and plenty of 'MONEY'




Why so angry? I wanted to know how you manage? Pretty simple and obvious  question I'd have thought 
What are you eating and drinking?
Are you growing all your own food?
Kudos to you if you are btw.
Do you take meds? If so how do you get a prescription filled?

I'm genuinely interested in someone who has absolutely no bills to pay...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Why so angry? I wanted to know how you manage? Pretty simple and obvious  question I'd have thought
> What are you eating and drinking?
> Are you growing all your own food?
> Kudos to you if you are btw.
> ...


lives with their parents, natch


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

Hello??

Gone quiet.... 

I'm gutted


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Hello??
> 
> Gone quiet....
> 
> I'm gutted


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2019)

I would love to know what happened to the nutter that was the subject of the video in the OP, sadly if you google - "stephen barry" + "council tax"  - you get the '_Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe' _message at the foot of results shown.

So, I assume he got google to remove results that showed what happened to him later, I live in hope he ended-up in prison.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Well I can see that none of you have any commonsense at all!!  I bid you all farewell!! See you when the revolution comes............


I bid you fuck off mate you knob, good day sir


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Watch this!!!


----------



## extra dry (Jul 8, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I would love to know what happened to the nutter that was the subject of the video in the OP, sadly if you google - "stephen barry" + "council tax"  - you get the '_Some results may have been removed under data protection law in Europe' _message at the foot of results shown.
> 
> So, I assume he got google to remove results that showed what happened to him later, I live in hope he ended-up in prison.



Prison where he would struggle to use tax avoidence knowledge


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Watch this!!!



no


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2019)

Oh, wacky youtube clips now, true to form.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Watch this!!!





You may need these


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Watch this!!!




I'll see your FFDP and raise you one LoG 



_I can feel your fear and weakness
I see my own in the mirrors of your eyes.
Carved into a corner hopeless,
There's death ahead and doom behind.
There's a bad storm blowing in
And most of us won't make it.
The wreckage of your past
Means nothing now, forsake it._


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 8, 2019)

Terry

silence

Terry

silence

Terry

silence

TERRY

silence

TERRY

I HAVE NO NAME

I'm leaving you Terry


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> I'll see your FFDP and raise you one LoG
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I like your taste in music


----------



## Kaka Tim (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> The greatest discovery of any generation is that a living soul can alter his life by altering his
> attitude. – William James








if only they had been told to alter their attitude.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

I can see I am really getting nowhere!! YOU all are responsible for your OWN lives  however you decide to live them............  Just remember and pay heed to the evidence!! It's all there for all to see!! Unless you are hopelessly blinded by the 'LIFE' you 'LIVE'  and all other political and media fuelled aspects of this world   I actually hope you all win the lotto and have all the money and things you could all ever dream of!!  But deep down inside there will be a feeling that will never be fulfilled!!  Because deep down you ALL know that everything is wrong and when you suddenly realise!  Have an epiphany maybe!! You will regret any actions or things you have ALL done that Are wrong...........


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 8, 2019)

If you don't pay council tax what do you do with your bins


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> If you don't pay council tax what do you do with your bins


If you go to my earlier post and read Veronica Chapman pdf actually read it maybe the answer will be in there!!!


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> If you go to my earlier post and read Veronica Chapman pdf actually read it maybe the answer will be in there!!!



Are you Veronica Chapman?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 8, 2019)

Might set up a freeman of the land refuse collection business. It'll have no name obviously.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Are you Veronica Chapman?


No sorry  but a believer in the truth!


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> I can see I am really getting nowhere!! YOU all are responsible for your OWN lives  however you decide to live them............  Just remember and pay heed to the evidence!! It's all there for all to see!! Unless you are hopelessly blinded by the 'LIFE' you 'LIVE'  and all other political and media fuelled aspects of this world   I actually hope you all win the lotto and have all the money and things you could all ever dream of!!  But deep down inside there will be a feeling that will never be fulfilled!!  Because deep down you ALL know that everything is wrong and when you suddenly realise!  Have an epiphany maybe!! You will regret any actions or things you have ALL done that Are wrong...........




You think people here equate happiness and fulfilment with money?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Lupa said:


> You think people here equate happiness and fulfilment with money?


Well I'm not sure as all I have wrote, quoted has been ridiculed! What am I supposed to believe!


----------



## chilango (Jul 8, 2019)

Hey Whtstruistru  you might like to know you can change the colour and font if your posts I the options so you can get them to *look like this!!!*


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 8, 2019)

TbF years ago to avoid local taxation we didn't have green pens, legal fictions or maritime law. We just stood in the street en masse yelling "can't pay won't pay is all I'm gonna fucking say!"


----------



## existentialist (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> The greatest discovery of any generation is that a living soul can alter his life by altering his
> attitude. – William James


I don't think he was talking about believing quasi-legal bullshit, though...


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Well I'm not sure as all I have wrote, quoted has been ridiculed! What am I supposed to believe!



Welcome to Urban. 
It's a place that makes you think.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)




----------



## existentialist (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Like I said read the information before you judge!! Knowledge is power!!


What is your view on the rascal pig?


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

Freedom comes at huge cost. Ask anyone whose people have really been oppressed for hundreds of years.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

existentialist said:


> What is your view on the rascal pig?


For whom are you asking?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Freedom comes at huge cost. Ask anyone whose people have really been oppressed for hundreds of years.


We all have been for hundreds of years!! Without the knowledge of being oppressed!!


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> We all have been for hundreds of years!! Without the knowledge of being oppressed!!



Oh. Believe me the Irish know they were oppressed...lol...


----------



## Wilf (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> If you go to my earlier post and read Veronica Chapman pdf actually read it maybe the answer will be in there!!!


That's not good enough. Recycling bin will be okay for another week, but it's bin day on Thursday and the main bin is getting reet stinky.

If you can't get my bins emptied I don't want to be part of your revolution.


----------



## The39thStep (Jul 8, 2019)

Always found it interesting that as soon as they found themselves in court facing charges that might result in a jail sentence that Robinson and Goddard completly dumped their dalliance with the common law/ freeman on the land stuff.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> If you go to my earlier post and read Veronica Chapman pdf actually read it maybe the answer will be in there!!!



I just read a couple of chapters.  Oh my god, what a load of barking mad nonsense.  And she admires David Icke, which says it all.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> For whom are you asking?


I am asking for you.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I just read a couple of chapters.  Oh my god, what a load of barking mad nonsense.  And she admires David Icke, which says it all.




Sshhhhh... 

We are having fun. ..


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Knowledge is power!!


have you read anything else by francis bacon?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Sshhhhh...
> 
> We are having fun. ..


#urbanatitsbest


----------



## Wilf (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Here are two books (pdf) study them carefully......
> Also lawful rebellion into Google  loads on there
> I hope they enlighten you all





Whtstruistru said:


> I have attached all the evidence needed for All to benefit from!! It's not all about taxes!! If you read them thoroughly before making any fool hardy judgement you will then posses the Knowledge of the situation!!!! Yes I am all that everyone can tar me with; idiot, cunt, scrounger, moaner whatever!! I do not care!!





Whtstruistru said:


> Oh the feeble minded!! I pity you all!! Just carry on in line working and paying bills and taxes and worrying about DEBT and driving yourselves insane!! Lol   form a que and get in line!!





Whtstruistru said:


> Like I said read the information before you judge!! Knowledge is power!!





Whtstruistru said:


> Everything you need to know is in my earlier post[/U]!!  Apart from all of the so called 'conspiracy theories'  there is lots of that on the deep Web!





Whtstruistru said:


> I can see I am really getting nowhere!! YOU all are responsible for your OWN lives  however you decide to live them............  Just remember and pay heed to the evidence!! It's all there for all to see!! Unless you are hopelessly blinded by the 'LIFE' you 'LIVE'  and all other political and media fuelled aspects of this world  er dream of!!  But deep down inside there will be a feeling that will never be fulfilled!!  Because deep down you..


So basically, you don't have any special knowledge, your views are not firmed up, you've just come here for a chat and will meet us halfway? 

Oh, and welcome back to urban.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

I remember someone telling me once that my mortgage was already paid because it was insured by the banks and that I was being fleeced because I was paying it at all. 

Or something. 

I took it with a grain of salt.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

I don't need any special knowledge!! It's just commonsense!!  Well I think I'm hearing voices again!! Time to medicate!!


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 8, 2019)

Oh please don't go. 
I owe shitloads of money. I need to know how to get out of paying my half of a mortgage...and to be honest the links dont tell me that.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> I don't need any special knowledge!! It's just commonsense!!  Well I think I'm hearing voices again!! Time to medicate!!


I tried to argue that but the bin wagon just sailed on by.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Ha ha ill be back later when my meds wear off


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 8, 2019)

Like an unflushable turd.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 8, 2019)

Binman just shouted 'fuck off sheeple cunt' at me. I responded by flourishing my well thumbed copy of the Citizen's Charter. Bit of a standoff now.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Binman just shouted 'fuck off sheeple cunt' at me. I responded by flourishing my well thumbed copy of the Citizen's Charter. Bit of a standoff now.


Binmen normally kick me out of the way


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> I don't need any special knowledge!! It's just commonsense!!  Well I think I'm hearing voices again!! Time to medicate!!


well, the sun *is* over the yard-arm


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

When hope is all you got what else is there??


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> When hope is all you got what else is there??


bar tabs


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> *when the revolution comes............*


That's the problem right there. Always waiting for it to come like a smoker who says he's going to "pack in soon". Nothing gets done and the revolution never happens but the smoker and the fake convince themselves that change is just around the corner and carry on with their gleeful enslavement. 

Common sense my arse!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 8, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Binman just shouted 'fuck off sheeple cunt' at me. I responded by flourishing my well thumbed copy of the Citizen's Charter. Bit of a standoff now.


Tell them you'll board their ship or something


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Tell them you'll board their ship or something


Or run them through with your cuttlefish


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> Or run them through with your cuttlefish


with his rapier wit


----------



## Wilf (Jul 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Tell them you'll board their ship or something


Used to have the house number on the bin, now I've printed my legal name. _GET IN!_


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 8, 2019)

Looks like the meds have kicked in


----------



## Wilf (Jul 8, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> Looks like the meds have kicked in


Can't remember whether I took the red one or the blue one. I'm going to have to get them in blister packs.


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 8, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Can't remember whether I took the red one or the blue one. I'm going to have to get them in blister packs.


I just swallow the whole rabbit


----------



## Wilf (Jul 8, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> I just swallow the whole rabbit


Side effects can be hare raising...

coat.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> I just swallow the whole rabbit


it tends to water shit down


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> I don't need any special knowledge!! *It's just commonsense!!*  Well I think I'm hearing voices again!! Time to medicate!!



BIB - is that what the voices tell you?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 8, 2019)

Well peeps  up the fucking lot of you  bunch of uneducated philistines!!!


----------



## 8ball (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Well peeps  up the fucking lot of you  bunch of uneducated philistines!!!



It would help if you tagged each post to signal whether the meds are currently working or not.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Well peeps  up the fucking lot of you  bunch of uneducated philistines!!!


that's unfair. cupid_stunt alone has five cse's - and an 'o' level


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> that's unfair. cupid_stunt alone has five cse's - and an 'o' level



Fuck off.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> uneducated philistines!!!



Actually stamp-collectors know a lot about currencies and geography


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Fuck off.


you're right to reprimand me, i forgot your silver swimming badge


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Actually stamp-collectors know a lot about currencies and geography


philatelists indeed


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 8, 2019)

I'm  always getting philistines mixed up with philatelists. Then there are fellationists with a very different idea of what good taste is.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> I'm  always getting philistines mixed up with philatelists. Then there are fellationists with a very different idea of what good taste is.


and i remember you going all funny peculiar when someone brought philanderers into the mix


----------



## Wilf (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Well peeps  up the fucking lot of you  bunch of uneducated philistines!!!


Did Goliath die in vain?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> you're right to reprimand me, i forgot your silver swimming badge



I got gold in swimming, so you can fuck off again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> I got gold in swimming, so you can fuck off again.


anyway, Whtstruistru, you can see your claim of us being uneducated is wide of the mark


----------



## Wilf (Jul 8, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> anyway, Whtstruistru, you can see your claim of us being uneducated is wide of the mark


Yeah, swimming in pyjamas, no bother!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 8, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Yeah, swimming in pyjamas, no bother!


cupid_stunt prefers to sport a smoking jacket while in the water


----------



## Wilf (Jul 8, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> cupid_stunt prefers to sport a smoking jacket while in the water


2 monocles for goggles.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> cupid_stunt prefers to sport a smoking jacket while in the water



It's an requirement for a Freeman of the Pool.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 8, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> anyway, Whtstruistru, you can see your claim of us being uneducated is wide of the mark



The post-mark in the case of philatelists. 



Pickman's model said:


> cupid_stunt prefers to sport a smoking jacket while in the water



A smoking jacket worn with flare. Theyd see the smoke. Useful in the middle of the ocean, you'd be picked up before you'd filled your knotted trousers with air.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Well peeps  up the fucking lot of you  bunch of uneducated philistines!!!


Why are you posting here?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Why are you posting here?



He's here to educate us.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 8, 2019)




----------



## elbows (Jul 8, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's an requirement for a Freeman of the Pool.



Freeman of the lido.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 8, 2019)

Turning yourself into a floating object? You already are one

"In fact common law is still very much enforce today, though its been overshadowed by something called "admiralty law" which has been strategically usurped on the people of the world using what is referred to as color of law. Admiralty law came into full force and effect in 1933 after the powers at be, (NWO) purposely bankrupted the US and most of the world, sending the world into the great depression and eventually world war. At this time gold was removed as the standard for all financial transactions. Since Gold was no longer used as collateral, the banks of the world demanded some form of surety, That is when our governments sold us out (literally) and pledged _our_ life force as surety, (collateral for the worlds debts). When gold was removed as surety for debts of the world banks, substance was removed, so too was common law, as it is based on substance (Gold/Silver), where as admiralty law is based on legal fictions (persons).

Traditionally one thinks of Admiralty Law as "the law of the water"; though in 1933 it was adapted for everyday use on land by fictionally converting all people to vessels through the birth certificate, today admiralty law is still superseded by civil law and only applies to those who willingly contract themselves into it, unfortunalty they trick us into consent through tacit agreement and presumption.   Admiralty law is a body of international law governing the relationships between private entities which operate vessels on the oceans. When you are born, your mother docks a vessel (you) and is forced to registers you with the harbor master, (government) in order to get benefits, though in reality your signing over title, (ownership) of your child to government. Thats why the government can take your child from you for not doing what they say like ADD medication, or vacinations shots

fuckwitteryman

This particular expert can't  spell or understand how to use long words. It really is the most dreadful bollocks


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 8, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Turning yourself into a floating object? You already are one
> 
> "In fact common law is still very much enforce today, though its been overshadowed by something called "admiralty law" which has been strategically usurped on the people of the world using what is referred to as color of law. Admiralty law came into full force and effect in 1933 after the powers at be, (NWO) purposely bankrupted the US and most of the world, sending the world into the great depression and eventually world war. At this time gold was removed as the standard for all financial transactions. Since Gold was no longer used as collateral, the banks of the world demanded some form of surety, That is when our governments sold us out (literally) and pledged _our_ life force as surety, (collateral for the worlds debts). When gold was removed as surety for debts of the world banks, substance was removed, so too was common law, as it is based on substance (Gold/Silver), where as admiralty law is based on legal fictions (persons).
> 
> ...


Or short ones - in the first line it should be in force not enforce.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Well peeps  up the fucking lot of you  bunch of uneducated philistines!!!



Thank you but I'm an educated philistine. How else am I meant to know what culture to scorn?


----------



## friedaweed (Jul 8, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Well peeps  up the fucking lot of you  bunch of uneducated philistines!!!


Does this mean you're on a *high*er plain again now?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 8, 2019)

It's a shame how this one seems to be giving up just as a little progress is being made. 
I mean, I'm a little sceptical of new ideas due to my long tenure in the Matrix, but it has occurred to me that I do quite like not paying for things.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> It's a shame how this one seems to be giving up just as a little progress is being made.
> I mean, I'm a little sceptical of new ideas due to my long tenure in the Matrix, but it has occurred to me that I do quite like not paying for things.


Workers Stingy Bastards of all Nations Arise!


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 8, 2019)

Shoplifting - making the personal political since 1983


----------



## existentialist (Jul 8, 2019)

This thread title is really annoying me.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2019)

existentialist said:


> This thread title is really annoying me.



Me too.

The twat didn't win anything, and xes was/is a complete knob-head.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 8, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Me too.
> 
> The twat didn't win anything, and xes was/is a complete knob-head.


Do you think it would be a diabolical liberty to ask a passing mod to change it to something more accurate?


----------



## Wilf (Jul 9, 2019)

Posted in 2010. I'm _absolutely_ sure Stephen Barry hasn't paid a penny in council tax since then. 

Edit: In fact... ‘Freeman on the Land’ jailed for failure to pay council tax


----------



## Poi E (Jul 9, 2019)

Not so Freeman no more


----------



## Wilf (Jul 9, 2019)

Actually, I might have the wrong idiot.  That one ^ is Mark Mackenzie, also a Freeman, also not paid anything since 2010.
Man tried to use ancient legal loophole to avoid paying council tax
Hard to tell of course when legal names are so fluid.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 9, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Actually, I might have the wrong idiot.  That one ^ is Mark Mackenzie, also a Freeman, also not paid anything since 2010.
> Man tried to use ancient legal loophole to avoid paying council tax
> Hard to tell of course when legal names are so fluid.



Yeah, different guy & council, anyway, good find for the lolz.


----------



## elbows (Jul 9, 2019)

Freedom from the oppressive council emptying your bins and providing other services.

The smell of freedom has never been so rancid, especially on a hot day.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 9, 2019)

Governor: 'Right, welcome to Manchester Prison'
- I am not a prisoner, I am a Freeman!
'Sigh. Look, let's start with the basics. What's your name?' 
- 'Aha! My Legal Name is distinct from my real name!
'So, there's no prisoner here called Mark Mackenzie?'
- Correct!
'So, you'll not be wanting your tea'
- Give me Liberty or give me Death!
_'Well_ ...'


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Governor: 'Right, welcome to Manchester Prison'
> - I am not a prisoner, I am a Freeman!
> 'Sigh. Look, let's start with the basics. What's your name?'
> - 'Aha! My Legal Name is distinct from my real name!
> ...


seems the right sort of person for strangeways


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 9, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> seems the right sort of person for *strangeways*



They think _A Rush and a Push and the Land We Stand On is Ours, it has been before_ etc.

The politics of sixth form poetry.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 9, 2019)

There is a Council Tax Bill That Never Goes Out.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 9, 2019)

If your legal name isn't your name then what is?


----------



## Wilf (Jul 9, 2019)

I don't owe you anything.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 9, 2019)

Lupa said:


> If your legal name isn't your name then what is?



Spartacus?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 9, 2019)

I wonder if actually being in prison is enough to convince these people that just maybe their foolproof legal getout isn't quite working out how they expected.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jul 9, 2019)

Old but gold



Mumbles274 said:


> I know of someone that when in crown court refused to recognise their name. The judge had him arrested for failing to attend court


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 9, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> The ‘System’
> The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy, and when you’re inside, and look around, what
> do you see? Businessmen, Teachers, Lawyers, Carpenters, the very minds of the people we are trying to
> save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have
> ...


Have you ever stood in a phonebox and dramatically slapped your hand on the window fixing your intense gaze on someone outside ala The Matrix? Love that shit.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jul 9, 2019)

And do you know kung-fu?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 9, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I wonder if actually being in prison is enough to convince these people that just maybe their foolproof legal getout isn't quite working out how they expected.


they're termed freemen-in-the-cell


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 9, 2019)

Serge Forward said:


> And do you know kung-fu?



I've taken a lot of red pills. Does that count?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 9, 2019)

The cake is a lie


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 9, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Traditionally one thinks of Admiralty Law as "the law of the water"; though in 1933 it was adapted for everyday use on land by fictionally converting all people to vessels through the birth certificate




Which is why they end up in the dock. 

More maritime gaol jokes on the way.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 9, 2019)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Have you ever stood in a phonebox and dramatically slapped your hand on the window fixing your intense gaze on someone outside ala The Matrix? Love that shit.


I saw that Baudrillard walking past and gave him the finger. Anyway, did somebody mention cake?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

At the end of the day people what it all boils down to is we have been unknowingly deceived by the world as we know it!! I just hope that the future generations realise our mistakes and make them right!! Educate your children and let them decide what's right and wrong!!! No the despotic leaders we all blindly follow...........


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> At the end of the day people what it all boils down to is we have been unknowingly deceived by the world as we know it!! I just hope that the future generations realise our mistakes and make them right!! Educate your children and let them decide what's right and wrong!!! No the despotic leaders we all blindly follow...........


Just tell me who does your bins mate


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> At the end of the day people what it all boils down to is we have been unknowingly deceived by the world as we know it!! I just hope that the future generations realise our mistakes and make them right!! Educate your children and let them decide what's right and wrong!!! No the despotic leaders we all blindly follow...........


But if we have been unknowingly deceived by the world as we know it, how come YOU know this? What's your special superpower that has enabled you to come by information that has, apparently, eluded nearly everyone else?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Actually, I might have the wrong idiot.  That one ^ is Mark Mackenzie, also a Freeman, also not paid anything since 2010.
> Man tried to use ancient legal loophole to avoid paying council tax
> Hard to tell of course when legal names are so fluid.



Perhaps Whtstruistru would like to explain what went 'wrong' in this case?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Perhaps Whtstruistru would like to explain what went 'wrong' in this case?


yes i too would like to see him umm and er


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Dear mods, could we please change the title of this thread to something a) based in fact, and b) more embarrassing to the twat-like pondlife who believe this bullshit? 

Many thanks,

Urban

editor FridgeMagnet


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Perhaps Whtstruistru would like to explain what went 'wrong' in this case?



I would guess the wrong magic words were used, either that or in the wrong order.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> But if we have been unknowingly deceived by the world as we know it, *how come YOU know this?* What's your special superpower that has enabled you to come by information that has, apparently, eluded nearly everyone else?




Clearly it is the exclamation mark!
Doubled when "facts" are serious !!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

8ball said:


> I would guess the wrong magic words were used, either that or in the wrong order.


the magic words are sadly ineffective in the presence of this talisman


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> the magic words are sadly ineffective in the presence of this talisman
> 
> View attachment 176919



Bloody satanists!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

If you actually read the pdf files I posted you will come across what is called a 'kangaroo' Court!!  The powers that be are trying to make examples!!  Scaremongering people!! As they do everyday and always have done!!  If said gentlemen is informed enough then he will have appealed the decision and attained real justice through a Court de Joure!!! They won't publicise that though!! 
To answer existentialist;
						I met a person through my work who was part of a freedom movement!!  At the, time he had told me of the information here given and was in the process of becoming a common law barrister!!  At first I dismissed his notions but after a little experiment by myself I found out that it was right!! Ask any LEGAL representative if you want about contracts!! Without a signature they are all null and void!!  They know this........ Consensus facit legum


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Non-falsifiability challenge met.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> If you actually read the pdf files I posted you will come across what is called a 'kangaroo' Court!!  The powers that be are trying to make examples!!  Scaremongering people!! As they do everyday and always have done!!  If said gentlemen is informed enough then he will have appealed the decision and attained real justice through a Court de Joure!!! They won't publicise that though!!
> To answer existentialist;
> I met a person through my work who was part of a freedom movement!!  At the, time he had told me of the information here given and was in the process of becoming a common law barrister!!  At first I dismissed his notions but after a little experiment by myself I found out that it was right!! Ask any LEGAL representative if you want about contracts!! Without a signature they are all null and void!!  They know this........ Consensus facit legum


Your mate could be absolutely right, but anyone who uses exclamation marks with the gay abandon that you do is automatically hugely suspect in my book. 

Anyway, I hope your bullshit detector comes back from the menders soon.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> If you actually read the pdf files I posted you will come across what is called a 'kangaroo' Court!!  The powers that be are trying to make examples!!  Scaremongering people!! As they do everyday and always have done!!  If said gentlemen is informed enough then he will have appealed the decision and attained real justice through a Court de Joure!!! They won't publicise that though!!
> To answer existentialist;
> I met a person through my work who was part of a freedom movement!!  At the, time he had told me of the information here given and was in the process of becoming a common law barrister!!  At first I dismissed his notions but after a little experiment by myself I found out that it was right!! Ask any LEGAL representative if you want about contracts!! Without a signature they are all null and void!!  They know this........ Consensus facit legum





What sort of a contract is an unsigned contract then?
And if it's unsigned how is it a contract? 
I've no idea what the argument is.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Judge me and mock me   whatever....... Not here to argue but to re-educate choice is all yours


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

8ball said:


> Bloody satanists!


can you spot the word that's not officially there?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Lupa said:


> What sort of a contract is an unsigned contract then?
> And if it's unsigned how is it a contract?
> I've no idea what the argument is.


It's called a 'Lien' which is a contract the law will uphold


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> It's called a 'Lien' which is a contract the law will uphold


yeh. and will it stand up in a court of law?


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Ask any LEGAL representative if you want about contracts!! Without a signature they are all null and void!!


This is nonsense, I'm afraid. 

Look up "implied contracts".


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Not here to argue but to re-educate...


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> It's called a 'Lien' which is a contract the law will uphold



Isn't that part of loan & mortgage agreements? Anyone signing up for a bank loan or mortgage knows that if they dont keep up repayments that they could have their property reposessed. It can be challenged if the borrower had a large % repaid and ran into trouble with payments. Other arrangements can be put in place..lower cost payment plans. But yeah..some banks have done the dirty on customers by selling their "bad" loans (poor performance) to other debt collecting scumbag banks who then can repossess property and have no scruples about throwing people out of their homes.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> It's called a 'Lien' which is a contract the law will uphold


So, this tactic is going to lead to mass non-payment of council tax? Government and councils must be worried, have they made plans for new revenue streams?


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Isn't that part of loan & mortgage agreements? Anyone signing up for a bank loan or mortgage knows that if they dont keep up repayments that they could have their property reposessed. It can be challenged if the borrower had a large % repaid and ran into trouble with payments. Other arrangements can be put in place..lower cost payment plans. But yeah..some banks have done the dirty on customers by selling their "bad" loans (poor performance) to other debt collecting scumbag banks who then can repossess property and have no scruples about throwing people out of their homes.


Don't bother with this fella. He hasn't got a clue what he's posting and is just regurgitating nonsense he's heard in the pub.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Don't bother with this fella. He hasn't got a clue what he's posting and is just regurgitating nonsense he's heard in the pub.


yeh he strikes me as someone who would regurgitate if he had the merest whiff of the barmaid's apron


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Don't bother with this fella. He hasn't got a clue what he's posting and is just regurgitating nonsense he's heard in the pub.


Ha ha!!!  Don't drink fella  alcohol is the analgesia for the masses


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Judge me and mock me   whatever....... Not here to argue but to re-educate choice is all yours


No, "education" implies some kind of advancement process. I think the word you're looking for here is "delusion".

And no, I'm not mocking you because I want to - I am mocking the transparent idiocy that you seem to have hoovered up. Since there is little point engaging in meaningful debate with people who hold views like yours, only two options remain: mockery, or ignoring. Mockery's more fun, at least for a while.

By then, I expect you'll probably have been flung off the boards, anyway.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Don't bother with this fella. He hasn't got a clue what he's posting and is just regurgitating nonsense he's heard in the pub.


Yeah, he's just chucking around a few disjointed bits of Latin and legalese, little of which means what he thinks it does


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Yeah, he's just chucking around a few disjointed bits of Latin and legalese, little of which means what he thinks it does


Well this is the thing with these types. They hear about something that's vaguely in line with whatever nonsense they're spouting, then they twist, dent, hammer, and mangle it into something that sort of fits their agenda. Then when they post they reinforce their lunacy and fake legal claims with lots of exclamation marks!!! and CAPITALISATION!!! to convince others that what they are saying is REALLY correct!!!!!!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the 
world being round that agitated people but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has 
been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its 
speaker a raving lunatic. – Dresden James
Each progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand mediocre minds appointed to guard the past. ~ 
Maurice Maeterlinck


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Well this is the thing with these types. They hear about something that's vaguely in line with whatever nonsense they're spouting, then they twist, dent, hammer, and mangle it into something that sort of fits their agenda. Then when they post they reinforce their lunacy and fake legal claims with lots of exclamation marks!!! and CAPITALISATION!!! to convince others that what they are saying is REALLY correct!!!!!!


You said it all fella.  LEGAL!!!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> A truth’s initial commotion is directly proportional to how deeply the lie was believed. It wasn’t the
> world being round that agitated people but that the world wasn’t flat. When a well-packaged web of lies has
> been sold gradually to the masses over generations, the truth will seem utterly preposterous and its
> speaker a raving lunatic. – Dresden James
> ...


but what do YOU think?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Yeah, he's just chucking around a few disjointed bits of Latin and legalese, little of which means what he thinks it does


vir est stultus i think you'll find


----------



## prunus (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Ha ha!!!  Don't drink fella  alcohol is the analgesia for the masses



You say that like it’s a bad thing?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> It wasn’t theworld being round that agitated people but that the world wasn’t flat.



When was this agitation again?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> If you actually read the pdf files I posted



These words are the mark of a good bulletin board post


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 10, 2019)

Btw I had to pay a legally enforceable parking ticket a few weeks ago, did I sign the contract, did I fuck, did I have to pay, yes I did


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> You said it all fella.  LEGAL!!!


So!! have you checked out implied contracts yet?

Are you!! ready to concede!! that you were in fact posting nonsense here:



> Ask any LEGAL representative if you want about contracts!! Without a signature they are all null and void!!



This!! is _absolutely incorrect!!_

An unsigned agreement can still bind the parties | Litigation notes
https://www.traverssmith.com/media/602908/unsigned_contracts.pdf
Can unsigned contracts still be binding? The answer is yes. - The Head Partnership
https://www.pinsentmasons.com/out-l...n-disputes-can-i-rely-on-an-unsigned-contract
Exclusion clauses
Can I Enforce an Unsigned Contract? | LegalVision
10 key facts about English contract law

There are at least half a dozen lawyers!! on these boards!! so you're going to come a CROPPER!! with your FRAUDULENT legal claims here!!


----------



## Wilf (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Each progressive spirit is opposed by a thousand mediocre minds appointed to guard the past. ~
> Maurice Maeterlinck


 Dear Progressive Spirit, I've been elected by the mediocre minds of urban to humbly suggest you are a bit of a div.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 10, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Btw I had to pay a legally enforceable parking ticket a few weeks ago, did I sign the contract, did I fuck, did I have to pay, yes I did


Do bin wagons have to pay parking tickets?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> So!! have you checked out implied contracts yet?
> 
> Are you!! ready to concede!! that you were in fact posting nonsense here:
> 
> ...


I think the message isn't going to get through to anyone else apart from xes	they are all legally trained by the government through the education(indoctrination) system  specifically designed for their own purposes NOT to empower people such as yourself........ Bid you a good day   had enough of the arguments now. Place your faith wherever fella


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Btw I had to pay a legally enforceable parking ticket a few weeks ago, did I sign the contract, did I fuck, did I have to pay, yes I did


Fool


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Fool


Lol


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> I think the message isn't going to get through to anyone else apart from xes	they are all legally trained by the government through the education(indoctrination) system  specifically designed for their own purposes NOT to empower people such as yourself........ Bid you a good day   had enough of the arguments now. Place your faith wherever fella


So you implore us to “ask any LEGAL expert “ but when I quote half a dozen saying that you’re talking through your hat, they’re the wrong type of legal experts because they’re “government trained” 



> ... had enough of the argument now



I bet you have!!!


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> So you implore us to “ask any LEGAL expert “ but when I quote half a dozen saying that you’re talking through your hat, they’re the wrong type of legal experts because they’re “government trained”



Not a legal expert, silly.  A LEGAL expert!!!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 10, 2019)

Hello No Name LAW at your service


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 10, 2019)

Is it a common or maritime law? No? Just ignore it mate


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Just read the evidence provided fella


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Just read the evidence provided fella


Has the evidence been signed by a legal name tho


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

If you go back a bit and read my earlier pdf files then question any legal expert


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> If you go back a bit and read my earlier pdf files then question any legal expert



Now, about those t-shirts.  What colours and logos do you have?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 10, 2019)

Imagine how short the Fotler vs Judge Dredd strip would be


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

No a common law name


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Alas the world is doomed


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> If you go back a bit and read my earlier pdf files then question any legal expert



That sounds like hard work, do you not have a convenient YouTube video to hand?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Alas the world is doomed



You were quite persistent, but there are none so blind as those who will not believe non-falsifiable woo.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> If you go back a bit and read my earlier pdf files then question any legal expert



Could you just give us a quick list of court cases that have been won by Freemen?  Thanks.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Could you just give us a quick list of court cases that have been won by Freemen?  Thanks.



And full court transcripts, thanks.  Wouldn't want to be led astray by results where the magical incantations were not material to the case.

I'm an 'L' in European sizes, by the way.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 10, 2019)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Could you just give us a quick list of court cases that have been won by Freemen?  Thanks.



There'll be loads - they just adopt a definition of 'won' that you might not recognise.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

It is truly doomed!!


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> It is truly doomed!!



Yes, it is.  And so you won't be needing any of that merch.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

They know not what they do..........


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Well I hope I've entertained you all?  Seems Jeremy Kyle is not on anymore


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Just read the evidence provided fella


Why would anyone read anything you post now, given that your entire “legal” foundation has just been comprehensively razed by genuine legal experts and you’re unprepared to engage beyond suggesting we read some spurious dogshit by unqualified weirdos?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> It is truly doomed!!


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> vir est stultus i think you'll find


To be honest, I have never seen a clearer case of "_volat supra cervical meum plenum est anguillarum_"


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Why would anyone read anything you post now, given that your entire “legal” foundation has just been comprehensively razed by genuine legal experts and you’re unprepared to engage beyond suggesting we read some spurious dogshit by unqualified weirdos?


Read the end bit it's called the Magna Carter  translated; the great charter  law of the land end of. It is as relevant today as it always has been! Those Legal professionals dispelling it's entirety and truth are all organic robots programmed by the system  read up fella  and it's LAWFUL entirety


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> To be honest, I have never seen a clearer case of "_volat supra cervical meum plenum est anguillarum_"



His flying cushion has been filled with tadpoles?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Well I hope I've entertained you all?  Seems Jeremy Kyle is not on anymore


Don't shift the goalposts now. You weren't here to entertain us - you wanted to tell us all about your wonderful legal revelations. Only it's gone a bit runny now, so you're trying to save a bit of face by pretending it's all just a bit of a larf.

Bit like those two year olds who do something unintentionally funny and make all the grownups laugh, and all they know to do is to laugh harder and louder than everyone, despite being completely oblivious to what's causing the mirth.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!  ← that's you, right there.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

8ball said:


> His flying cushion has been filled with tadpoles?


Close enough. I think the original judgement referred to "eels", but the tenor is the same.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> If you go back a bit and read my earlier pdf files then question any legal expert


Do you personally pay your council tax?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

OK to all I ask; what's the difference between lawful and legal? Please enlighten me?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Wilf said:


> Do you personally pay your council tax?


No  not at all as I live on the street  therefore all annotations regarding bin men are irrelevant to me


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Read the end bit it's called the Magna Carter  translated; the great charter  law of the land end of. It is as relevant today as it always has been! Those Legal professionals dispelling it's entirety and truth are all organic robots programmed by the system  read up fella  and it's LAWFUL entirety


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> No  not at all as I live on the street  therefore all annotations regarding bin men are irrelevant to me



You mean you are homeless?
That's a fair exemption...

Not sure all this footle stuff is really necessary - try the Citizens Advice Bureau.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> OK to all I ask; what's the difference between lawful and legal? Please enlighten me?


An overflowing bin.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> OK to all I ask; what's the difference between lawful and legal? Please enlighten me?


I fear that this is gong to confuse the hell out of you, but in essence, it's the difference between practical application and theory.

If I do something lawful, it is permitted by law for me to do so. If I do something legal, I am doing it in the manner prescribed by the technical provisions of the law. I shouldn't imagine anyone except lawyers (including those of the barrack room variety) would ever need to concern themselves with the distinction.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> I fear that this is gong to confuse the hell out of you, but in essence, it's the difference between practical application and theory.
> 
> If I do something lawful, it is permitted for me to do so. If I do something legal, I am doing it in the manner prescribed by the technical provisions of the law. I shouldn't imagine anyone except lawyers (including those of the barrack room variety) would ever need to concern themselves with the distinction.


Wrong   everyone should know and its prescribed by the technical provisions of 'Statute' law 'Commercial' law not 'Common' law which is the main jurisdiction for many countries


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Wrong   everyone should know and its prescribed by the technical provisions of 'Statute' law 'Commercial' law not 'Common' law which is the main jurisdiction for many countries



What was your old username, by the way?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Wrong   everyone should know and its prescribed by the technical provisions of 'Statute' law 'Commercial' law not 'Common' law which is the main jurisdiction for many countries


Bullshit.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Read the end bit it's called the Magna Carter



Magna Carter Ruck


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Bullshit.



The polite response is to nod and smile.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Bullshit.


OK   I can take that!  But knowing publications such as Black's book of law, which is a lot of LEGAL mumbo jumbo, and studied them well  I know that it goes for all commonwealth countries!  The Great Charter is the LAW!! Legal does not come into the equation   only if you allow it to


----------



## editor (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Dear mods, could we please change the title of this thread to something a) based in fact, and b) more embarrassing to the twat-like pondlife who believe this bullshit?
> 
> Many thanks,
> 
> ...


What do you suggest, please?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Is it illegal to kill someone?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Is it illegal to steal?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

editor said:


> What do you suggest, please?


"A Farrago of Freeman-on-the-land Fuckwittery"?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Is it illegal to kill someone?


Not necessarily.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> "A Farrago of Freeman-on-the-land Fuckwittery"?


Great answer! Prove it


----------



## Proper Tidy (Jul 10, 2019)

Freemandela


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> OK   I can take that!  But knowing publications such as Black's book of law, which is a lot of LEGAL mumbo jumbo, and studied them well  I know that it goes for all commonwealth countries!  The Great Charter is the LAW!! Legal does not come into the equation   only if you allow it to


Ahhhh, so you're actually a Trained Lawyer? Or do you just mean that you've thumbed through a law book and barely understood one sentence in five?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Great answer! Prove it


The great thing is that I don't have to. Mostly, because the fuckwittery is self-evident.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Not necessarily.


Google it


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

8ball said:


> The polite response is to nod and smile.


I wasn't feeling polite


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Google it


You're the one desperately flailing to make some kind of point. I'm not doing your homework for you!


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> You're the one desperately flailing to make some kind of point. I'm not doing your homework for you!


Will you not enact the mental labour for him? Maaan!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> The great thing is that I don't have to. Mostly, because the fuckwittery is self-evident.


May I ask what profession you may have please? I was a so called Lawyer  but when you add substance to allegations you get ousted!!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Am


existentialist said:


> You're the one desperately flailing to make some kind of point. I'm not doing your homework for you!


 Not flailing or I don't want anything other than to prove that legal and lawful are two separate entities!  Just thought you would have known


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> May I ask what profession you may have please? I was a so called Lawyer  but when you add substance to allegations you get ousted!!



Were you a solicitor or a barrister?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Will you not enact the mental labour for him? Maaan!


Think this guy works for the government!!


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> May I ask what profession you may have please? I was a so called Lawyer  but when you add substance to allegations you get ousted!!


I am a so-called lawyer. Just like you were.

I am also a musician, which means my acts are subject only to the Circle of Fifths.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Were you a solicitor or a barrister?


Solicitor  and was demonised licence revoked lost house family everything I thought I needed.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> I am a so-called lawyer. Just like you were.
> 
> I am also a musician, which means my acts are subject only to the Circle of Fifths.


 surprised you cannot answer whether it is illegal to kill someone!


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Solicitor  and was demonised licence revoked lost house family everything I thought I needed.



That's rough.
What happened?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...BMAF6BAgEEAs&usg=AOvVaw3YO5_xZ8Ar97afDmt1STBk
This band and so many others over the years have discovered what we all ignore!! Read the lyrics


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Google it


yes, we should really use GOOGLE, who are a surveillance organisation more than they are a search engine


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Lupa said:


> That's rough.
> What happened?


Demonised by peers and other companies would not employ me! To go from £210k a year, nice Essex house, nice car to having a black bag with a few things in isn't the best


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> yes, we should really use GOOGLE, who are a surveillance organisation more than they are a search engine


OK use an encrypted network instead! On you can trust!


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Demonised by peers and other companies would not employ me! To go from £210k a year, nice Essex house, nice car to having a black bag with a few things in isn't the best




What happened your family?

Eta. Sorry... just is sad to read that you lost them too. 
Not meaning to pry.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> surprised you cannot answer whether it is illegal to kill someone!


context is everything.

if i were to batter prince charles to death in green park with a fossil i might be charged with murder. or manslaughter.

if i were an afghan and had killed prince harry hewitt in afghanistan i would be a hero and face no charges.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=fXrpnl3NkFE&ved=2ahUKEwiSlIqMn6rjAhXbSRUIHUxrBDoQwqsBMAF6BAgEEAs&usg=AOvVaw3YO5_xZ8Ar97afDmt1STBk
> This band and so many others over the years have discovered what we all ignore!! Read the lyrics


Oh my god. 


I’m ready.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

It's not illegal to kill someone....... It is however really UNLAWFUL to! That's the difference


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Demonised by peers and other companies would not employ me! To go from £210k a year, nice Essex house, nice car to having a black bag with a few things in isn't the best



Well, at least you're here to educate us on our poor life choices.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

HoratioCuthbert said:


> Oh my god.
> 
> 
> I’m ready.


Is that implied sarcastically?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> It's not illegal to kill someone....... It is however really UNLAWFUL to! That's the difference


you're not the full shilling, are you


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> It's not illegal to kill someone....... It is however really UNLAWFUL to! That's the difference



I think you may have that almost backwards.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> It's not illegal to kill someone....... It is however really UNLAWFUL to! That's the difference



Thank you so much for stating the bleeding obvious.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Thank you so much for stating the bleeding obvious.


no, that's not obvious at all

things which are illegal are against the criminal law

things which are unlawful are against the civil law


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 10, 2019)

existentialist said:


> To be honest, I have never seen a clearer case of "_volat supra cervical meum plenum est anguillarum_"



That's so bad it took me a while lol

I don't know where _Cervical_ but came from, I think you mean _Untcae _


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 10, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> no, that's not obvious at all
> 
> things which are illegal are against the criminal law
> 
> things which are unlawful are against the civil law



Illegal means forbidden by law, unlawful means not authorised by law.  Murder, however, is deemed unlawful, not expressly illegal.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> no, that's not obvious at all
> 
> things which are illegal are against the criminal law
> 
> things which are unlawful are against the civil law


Common law not civil law


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Illegal means forbidden by law, unlawful means not authorised by law.  Murder, however, is deemed unlawful, not expressly illegal.


well, you live and learn


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Common law not civil law


i don't think you have anything to add to this discussion


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 10, 2019)

OK thanks


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Illegal means forbidden by law, unlawful means not authorised by law.  Murder, however, is deemed unlawful, not expressly illegal.



Murder is not forbidden by law?


----------



## T & P (Jul 10, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Btw I had to pay a legally enforceable parking ticket a few weeks ago, did I sign the contract, did I fuck, did I have to pay, yes I did


You've just reminded me of a video clip someone posted a while ago in another Freeman-related thread. A Freeman was being interviewed live on TV outside a courthouse, boasting about how he'd never paid Council Tax and never would, when he suddenly cut the interview short and said 'Sorry, I need to go now as the meter is running out and I don't want to get a ticket'.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 10, 2019)

8ball said:


> Murder is not forbidden by law?



It's defined as "unlawful killing of a reasonable person in being under the King or Queen's peace with malice aforethought express or implied".

Under the law, it is defined as unlawful, rather than illegal!


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> surprised you cannot answer whether it is illegal to kill someone!


Who says I "cannot"?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 10, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> That's so bad it took me a while lol
> 
> I don't know where _Cervical_ but came from, I think you mean _Untcae _


I had to submit "flying cushion" for "hovercraft"


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Illegal means forbidden by law, unlawful means not authorised by law.  Murder, however, is deemed unlawful, not expressly illegal.



Murder, being _legally defined_ as an unlawful killing, is illegal, though isn't it?  Ie. unlawful killing is _forbidden by law._ 
So murder _is_ illegal (and a lawful killing would not be murder by definition).

edit: it's no wonder some people start thinking the whole thing is a magic words game...


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> May I ask what profession you may have please? I was a so called Lawyer  but when you add substance to allegations you get ousted!!


No you weren't.

No lawyer "so called" or otherwise, would ever have come out with this rubbish:


Whtstruistru said:


> Ask any LEGAL representative if you want about contracts!! Without a signature they are all null and void!!  They know this........


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> No you weren't.
> 
> No lawyer "so called" or otherwise would every have come out with this rubbish:


there's more legal truth in eh by gum than anything whtstruistru has come out with


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2019)

T & P said:


> You've just reminded me of a video clip someone posted a while ago in another Freeman-related thread. A Freeman was being interviewed live on TV outside a courthouse, boasting about how he'd never paid Council Tax and never would, when he suddenly cut the interview short and said 'Sorry, I need to go now as the meter is running out and I don't want to get a ticket'.



Sounds like this twat that claims he doesn't pay car tax, and got ejected from the court's public galley for refusing to stand, yet needed to get back to his car, as the parking ticket was running out. 



> Mr Emms said: "I'd been in the court for a couple of hours when they demanded I stand. 'I do not stand under your laws. I am a public person'. I wasn't there as a witness or on trial."
> 
> He added that he has written a letter to Gloucestershire police saying he has opted out of all laws. "I can drive a car with no tax and do whatever I want," he said. "It's everybody's right."
> 
> Flanked by two security guards, Mr Emms walked out of the court, *but then argued with staff for 15 minutes, before leaving because his parking ticket was about to expire.*



Man's fury at being banished from court after refusing to stand


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Read the end bit it's called the Magna Carter  translated; the great charter  law of the land end of. It is as relevant today as it always has been! Those Legal professionals dispelling it's entirety and truth are all organic robots programmed by the system  read up fella  and it's LAWFUL entirety



You clearly didn't  do the optional Latin part of your law degree. And lawyers generally manage the difference between its and it's,  or entirely and entirety, whichever it is.

On that basis, there's more than a whiff of bullshit about your credentials.

Cunnus mendax is the legal maxim that most applies.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> On that basis, there's more than a whiff of bullshit about your credentials.



Are you still taking this one seriously? 
I think it's a banned returner having a bit of a laugh, dipping into the Footie website now and then to get some more nonsense.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Cunnus mendax is the legal maxim that most applies.



Fanny snails!!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> You clearly didn't  do the optional Latin part of your law degree. And lawyers generally manage the difference between its and it's,  or entirely and entirety, whichever it is.
> 
> On that basis, there's more than a whiff of bullshit about your credentials.
> 
> Cunnus mendax is the legal maxim that most applies.


you missed MAGNA CARTER


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 10, 2019)




----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 10, 2019)

8ball said:


> Are you still taking this one seriously?
> I think it's a banned returner having a bit of a laugh, dipping into the Footie website now and then to get some more nonsense.



That's  a more convincing explanation than a lawyer thinking that Carter means Charter, which is what I was driving at with the Latin dig Pickman's model


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 10, 2019)

Blimey, there's some right nutters out there.

This guy, stopped for no car tax, refused to provide his details as he was a 'Freeman on the Land', didn't consent to being arrested, resisted arrest, struggles with the cops in front of his kids, and got himself Tasered. 

https://www.thesun. co.uk/news/7591935/driver-stopped-police-untaxed-car-law/

Interesting quote from a copper, after a 'Freeman on the Land' was convicted for drug driving...



> Derbyshire Roads Policing Unit Tweeted after the court hearing, saying: "Still waiting for a ‘freeman’ defence to trump the Road Traffic Act."





> Freemen on the Land believe only "true" law is their own interpretation of common law.
> 
> *To date, there is no recorded instance of freeman tactics being upheld in a court of law.*



Cannabis user who thought he was 'above the law' is banned from driving


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 10, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> you missed MAGNA CARTER


Isn't that Shirley's mum on Eastenders?


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 10, 2019)

Snail? 8ball


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Blimey, there's some right nutters out there.
> 
> This guy, stopped for no car tax, refused to provide his details as he was a 'Freeman on the Land', didn't consent to being arrested, resisted arrest, struggles with the cops in front of his kids, and got himself Tasered.
> 
> ...



The second one is breaking the normal demographics.  It's usually a middle-aged man who feels that life has been unfair to him.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Snail? 8ball



You don't want these fellas swimming up your fanny.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 10, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Solicitor  and was demonised licence revoked lost house family everything I thought I needed.


Sorry to hear that.


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 10, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> you missed MAGNA CARTER


Magnus Carter always was a dick 


8ball said:


> You don't want these fellas swimming up your fanny.


Here What would they do if they did? *on tenterhooks*


----------



## HoratioCuthbert (Jul 10, 2019)

Oh I misread that as up to. Uggggh


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 10, 2019)

8ball said:


> Fanny snails!!



Mendaces cunnorum 

colligam mea pallium...


----------



## prunus (Jul 10, 2019)

8ball said:


> You don't want these fellas swimming up your fanny.



That’s why I never wear escargot pants.


----------



## T & P (Jul 10, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Sounds like this twat that claims he doesn't pay car tax, and got ejected from the court's public galley for refusing to stand, yet needed to get back to his car, as the parking ticket was running out.
> 
> 
> 
> Man's fury at being banished from court after refusing to stand


Yes that's him, my memory failed me with a few of the minor details but I got the essence of it right.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 10, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Sounds like this twat that claims he doesn't pay car tax, and got ejected from the court's public galley for refusing to stand, yet needed to get back to his car, as the parking ticket was running out.
> 
> 
> 
> Man's fury at being banished from court after refusing to stand


He sounds a right charmer:




> Mr Emms, from Ebbw Vale in Wales, was jailed for three years in 2012 after embezzling £16,500 from a charity fund to help his son Michael fight motor neurone disease. He had claimed he would take his son on holiday to the USA in 2010. When the trip didn't happen, he pretended to burn the donors' cheques in front of Michael's grandmother.
> 
> After Michael died aged 24 in April 2011, there was not enough money left to pay for a funeral. Mr Emms was found guilty of fraud in 2012 at Cardiff Crown Court.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 10, 2019)

Wilf said:


> He sounds a right charmer:



The footle stuff is tailor-made for Walter Mitty types.

(actually, Walter Mitty is a little too benign a term, but the right word/name escapes me... something more like a chimera made from bits of Don Quixote and Jeffrey Archer perhaps)


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

More fuckwittery


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> More fuckwittery


A 70 page doc.

I’ll get right on it 

So you are a banned returner after all.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> A 70 page doc.
> 
> I’ll get right on it
> 
> So you are a banned returner after all.


No  first time on here fella.  Some evidence for you all to peruse


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 11, 2019)

Nobody is going to read that you silly fucker.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> No  first time on here fella.  Some evidence for you all to peruse




Is the third one down something that can be used in the case of evictions  ?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Nobody is going to read that you silly fucker.


And why not? It incorporates all things the doubters deny and defy!!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Lupa said:


> Is the third one down something that can be used in the case of evictions  ?


Go to the website and read the forums


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> And why not? It incorporates all things the doubters deny and defy!!


Why not? because it's way, way, way too much and it will all be absolute bollocks anyway.
Precis it and make a post.

Also, for some reason, I don't entirely trust downloading anything that you might post.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Go to the website and read the forums



What website?
 I just clicked the pdf...


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Go to the website and read the forums


Why the fuck would anyone do that? It's all absolute bullshit.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 11, 2019)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Why not? because it's way, way, way too much and it will all be absolute bollocks anyway.
> Precis it and make a post.
> 
> Also, for some reason, I don't entirely trust downloading anything that you might post.




Oh shit


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Lupa said:


> What website?
> I just clicked the pdf...


Fmotl website


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Why not? because it's way, way, way too much and it will all be absolute bollocks anyway.
> Precis it and make a post.
> 
> Also, for some reason, I don't entirely trust downloading anything that you might post.


I'm not a hacker and I would not post anything on here to damage anyone's phone, computer etc 
 I am simply presenting the grounds and information to support my views


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> I'm not a hacker and I would not post anything on here to damage anyone's phone, computer etc
> I am simply presenting the grounds and information to support my views


have you heard the parable about the man who built his house on sand?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> have you heard the parable about the man who built his house on sand?


I have and I did have a house  but it was not built on sand! It was built on the misconception of society as I now know it!


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> And why not? It incorporates all things the doubters deny and defy!!


I think you haven't quite grasped the concept of debate. If you're trying to make a point, YOU get to do the heavy lifting. You don't do the Internet equivalent of dropping half a hundredweight of dusty files on someone's desk and saying "there you go, the answer's in there somewhere".


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> More fuckwittery



It's what we expect with every post you make.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> I have and I did have a house  but it was not built on sand! It was built on the misconception of society as I now know it!


you might want to examine the foundations of your views which seem to me clearly built on shifting ground and liable to subsidence


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> It's what we expect with every post you make.


nay, it's what we _demand_


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> And why not?


Because you’re a liar (Mr lawyer), a fraud, and a loon. Nobody has the slightest interest in your agenda beyond mocking you.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> And why not? It incorporates all things the doubters deny and defy!!


Awww, bless him. He really thinks he’s the first person to come on here and post this FotL guff!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Awww, bless him. He really thinks he’s the first person to come on here and post this FotL guff!


To you the damage is irreversible!  To all  I was once spoon fed!  But then I did some leg work and found answers! The Truth in effect...........	You have all chosen your fates and my being on here is totally irrelevant as your attitudes will never change! Carry on dreaming and living the lie	I have seen the best and worst in life and can honestly say its the people with nothing who are truly humble and caring.............. You're all just um! Zombies	Zombies without a purpose! Without balls like I once was!!


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 11, 2019)

A couple of questions for you Whtstruistru :

1. Is the earth flat?
2. Did Neil Armstrong actually walk on the moon?
3. Was it an accident with Princess Diana?
4. Can jet fuel melt steel beams?


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 11, 2019)

Yeah!! You’ve got it nailed!!


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> To you the damage is irreversible!  To all  I was once spoon fed!  But then I did some leg work and found answers! The Truth in effect...........	You have all chosen your fates and my being on here is totally irrelevant as your attitudes will never change! Carry on dreaming and living the lie	I have seen the best and worst in life and can honestly say its the people with nothing who are truly humble and caring.............. You're all just um! Zombies	Zombies without a purpose! Without balls like I once was!!


Oh do piss off you absolute fuckwit.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 11, 2019)




----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> To you the damage is irreversible!  To all  I was once spoon fed!  But then I did some leg work and found answers! The Truth in effect...........	You have all chosen your fates and my being on here is totally irrelevant as your attitudes will never change! Carry on dreaming and living the lie	I have seen the best and worst in life and can honestly say its the people with nothing who are truly humble and caring.............. You're all just um! Zombies	Zombies without a purpose! Without balls like I once was!!


What I don't understand is why you loonspuds can't just be a little bit original. It's like domestic abusers - you all come out with the same bullshit, as if there's some kind of reference manual for how to be a wifebeater/lunatic-on-the-internet. It's so BOOOOOORING.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

There is no forever just a day.....................


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 11, 2019)

!!!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> There is no forever just a day.....................


er


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> To you the damage is irreversible!  To all  I was once spoon fed!  But then I did some leg work and found answers! The Truth in effect...........	You have all chosen your fates and my being on here is totally irrelevant as your attitudes will never change! Carry on dreaming and living the lie	I have seen the best and worst in life and can honestly say its the people with nothing who are truly humble and caring.............. You're all just um! Zombies	Zombies without a purpose! Without balls like I once was!!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Because you’re a liar (Mr lawyer), a fraud, and a loon. Nobody has the slightest interest in your agenda beyond mocking you.


So you freely say that you mock a homeless man who's only on here because he goes through bins to get stickers for free coffee in McDonald's to use the free WiFi! Who has been so hungry he has freely ate other peoples scraps off the pavement and been criticised for it! who smells of urine because people have pissed on him while he slept! who only has hope left! Hope that society will realise that he matters  same as everyone else matters!  Just watching people pass by like I'm invisible!   What a lovely PERSON you are! I don't normally use bad language! Fuck you!  I hope you go through what I have you heartless prick! And If I seen you on the street I would applaud you


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> So you freely say that you mock a homeless man who's only on here because he goes through bins to get stickers for free coffee in McDonald's to use the free WiFi! Who has been so hungry he has freely ate other peoples scraps off the pavement and been criticised for it! who smells of urine because people have pissed on him while he slept! who only has hope left! Hope that society will realise that he matters  same as everyone else matters!  Just watching people pass by like I'm invisible!   What a lovely PERSON you are! I don't normally use bad language! Fuck you!  I hope you go through what I have you heartless prick! And If I seen you on the street I would applaud you


Well, after that little pity party, I'm a little more inclined to the great Spymaster's point of view...


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> So you freely say that you mock a homeless man ...


No. I freely say that I mock a fucking idiot who comes out with the bullshit that you have on here.

I don't believe you're homeless, by the way. I think you're a troll, possibly Firky, who's been banned from here before and I think this last post and your posts regarding anarchy prove a deeper knowledge of this site than you care to admit.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> No. I freely say that I mock a fucking idiot who comes out with the bullshit that you have on here.
> 
> I don't believe you're homeless, by the way. I think you're a troll, possibly Firky, who's been banned from here before and I think this last post and your posts regarding anarchy prove a deeper knowledge of this site than you care to admit.


I assure you that I am not a troll(but technically I am because I do sleep/reside under bridges) I have never ever been on this website before! As for firky?? Who the hell is he?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 11, 2019)

Whatever your personal circumstances, the Freeman on the Land stuff really is absolute codswallop and no amount posting from you is going to change anyone's mind about that here.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> So you freely say that you mock a homeless man who's only on here because he goes through bins to get stickers for free coffee in McDonald's to use the free WiFi! Who has been so hungry he has freely ate other peoples scraps off the pavement and been criticised for it! who smells of urine because people have pissed on him while he slept! who only has hope left! Hope that society will realise that he matters  same as everyone else matters!  Just watching people pass by like I'm invisible!   What a lovely PERSON you are! I don't normally use bad language! Fuck you!  I hope you go through what I have you heartless prick! And If I seen you on the street I would applaud you



How did you get to be homeless?


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Whatever your personal circumstances, the Freeman on the Land stuff really is absolute codswallop and no amount posting from you is going to change anyone's mind about that here.


Not to mention the notion of someone telling us our lifestyle's all wrong and we should all become FOTLers, because sheeple, coming from someone whose life situation isn't exactly a wondrous advertisement for the glories of FOTLdom.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Whatever your personal circumstances, the Freeman on the Land stuff really is absolute codswallop and no amount posting from you is going to change anyone's mind about that here.


I get that now   sorry to waste time


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

The


ElizabethofYork said:


> How did you get to be homeless?


Through the corruption of this underhanded system that we all follow and obey. Lost my job/career, victimised by companies and peers and had to declare bankruptcy! Wife left me and took my child (who I miss so much) and disowned by family! All because I stated the Truth! Unlike my peers I have a conscience and a heart and it all went wrong! You will find no evidence of my story as it has been 'brushed under the carpet' as many others have been and still will be.....


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> The
> 
> Through the corruption of this underhanded system that we all follow and obey. Lost my job/career, victimised by companies and peers and had to declare bankruptcy! Wife left me and took my child (who I miss so much) and disowned by family! All because I stated the Truth! Unlike my peers I have a conscience and a heart and it all went wrong! You will find no evidence of my story as it has been 'brushed under the carpet' as many others have been and still will be.....


Everyone is probably now thinking that perhaps you have some mental health issues that may have led to the situation that you are now in. Are you getting any support?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Don't need it fella  I'm of sound mind!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 11, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Everyone is probably now thinking that perhaps you have some mental health issues that may have led to the situation that you are now in. Are you getting any support?





Whtstruistru said:


> I don't need any special knowledge!! It's just commonsense!!  Well I think I'm hearing voices again!! Time to medicate!!





Whtstruistru said:


> Ha ha ill be back later when my meds wear off


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Don't need it fella  I'm of sound mind!


Fair enough. Anyway, I think recent posts have shown that nothing good will come of this thread for anyone involved.

I wish you all the best, but I'm out of here.


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 11, 2019)

I think now would be a good time for everyone to stop prodding, goading etc.

I include myself.


----------



## existentialist (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> The
> 
> Through the corruption of this underhanded system that we all follow and obey. Lost my job/career, victimised by companies and peers and had to declare bankruptcy! Wife left me and took my child (who I miss so much) and disowned by family! All because I stated the Truth! Unlike my peers I have a conscience and a heart and it all went wrong! You will find no evidence of my story as it has been 'brushed under the carpet' as many others have been and still will be.....


What was this Truth that you stated?


----------



## mojo pixy (Jul 11, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Through the corruption of this underhanded system that we all follow and obey. Lost my job/career, victimised by companies and peers and had to declare bankruptcy! Wife left me and took my child (who I miss so much) and disowned by family! All because I stated the Truth! Unlike my peers I have a conscience and a heart and it all went wrong! You will find no evidence of my story as it has been 'brushed under the carpet' as many others have been and still will be.....



I feel for you, truly. I've had shit experiences in family court and with social services and so have other posters here.

Nobody's interested in FMotL stuff because believe it or not, there are some quite adept critical thinkers around here and the subject has been done to death on these boards.

If you want some broad-brush lefty social justice debate, or a little lifestyle anarchism (about as good as such things get these days), some general satire and mockery of the capitalist status quo or tips on how to make the political personal in meaningful ways, then stick around.

If you want converts, head to Icke's forums.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> I feel for you, truly. I've had shit experiences in family court and with social services and so have other posters here.
> 
> Nobody's interested in FMotL stuff because believe it or not, there are some quite adept critical thinkers around here and the subject had been done to death on these boards.
> 
> ...


Thanks


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

I leave you all with this;
*Joseph Goebbels: On the "Big Lie"*

Category » Joseph Goebbels
 Reference
Biography
 Quotes & Speeches
On the “Big Lie”
The Racial Question & World Propaganda Nuremberg Rally
On the Boycott of Jews
On National-Socialism & Democracy
The Jews are Guilty!
On the Jewish Question
Plea for Clothing for Troops on Russian Front
On the Warsaw Ghetto Revolt
The War and the Jews
On the “Jewish Program” in Hungary
Join our mailing list
Support JVL
Donate

Joseph Goebbels:Table of Contents|Biography|On the Jewish Question

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 11, 2019)

Can you see why people think that it's you that keeps repeating the BIg Lie?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 11, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Can you see why people think that it's you that keeps repeating the BIg Lie?



Not sure it's that big.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Jul 11, 2019)

If FMOTL is so effective, how come they haven't helped you Whtstruistru ?

I'm not  being smart. I want to know how they have helped you if they have?


----------



## kebabking (Jul 11, 2019)

Solicitors don't get barred from the profession because they SEE THE TRUTH, they get barred from the profession because they get done for embezzlement or having kiddie porn on their computer.


----------



## Wilf (Jul 11, 2019)

mojo pixy said:


> I think now would be a good time for everyone to stop prodding, goading etc.
> 
> I include myself.


Good advice I think.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 11, 2019)

kebabking said:


> Solicitors don't get barred from the profession because they SEE THE TRUTH, they get barred from the profession because they get done for embezzlement or having kiddie porn on their computer.



I'd have thought going all FOTLer would get a solicitor struck off tbh. It's not exactly representing your client in a professional manner is it?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Jul 11, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I'd have thought going all FOTLer would get a solicitor struck off tbh. It's not exactly representing your client in a professional manner is it?


If your client is in your eyes guilty of harming a child then no judicial system should be able to take their side!  System is wrong! wrongs are being done everyday and yet we believe that our judicial system knows what's best!? Especially when they relocate paedophiles near to schools and place where they should Not be!  It's wrong end of.


----------



## A380 (Jul 23, 2019)

Yep, this will work...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 23, 2019)

Barking mad, but the 'so fuck off' bit did crack me up! 

ETA - Just a little bit disappointed it's not written in green crayon.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 23, 2019)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 23, 2019)

(actually I've add to my previous post)


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 23, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> If you actually read the pdf files I posted you will come across what is called a 'kangaroo' Court!!  The powers that be are trying to make examples!!  Scaremongering people!! As they do everyday and always have done!!  If said gentlemen is informed enough then he will have appealed the decision and attained real justice through a Court de Joure!!! They won't publicise that though!!
> To answer existentialist;
> I met a person through my work who was part of a freedom movement!!  At the, time he had told me of the information here given and was in the process of becoming a common law barrister!!  At first I dismissed his notions but after a little experiment by myself I found out that it was right!! Ask any LEGAL representative if you want about contracts!! Without a signature they are all null and void!!  They know this........ Consensus facit legum


Only written contracts. Verbal contracts don't have signatures.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 23, 2019)

A380 said:


> Yep, this will work...
> 
> View attachment 178329



Oh lord, a couple of my Facebook "friends" are now posting this shit.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 23, 2019)

As someone said on the Moon Landing thread, people who believe in this nonsense seem to want to just feel superior to everyone else because they know THE TRUTH. It's very odd.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 23, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Only written contracts. Verbal contracts don't have signatures.


Even written contracts don’t necessarily need to be signed to be enforceable.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 23, 2019)

Mrs Miggins said:


> As someone said on the Moon Landing thread, people who believe in this nonsense seem to want to just feel superior to everyone else because they know THE TRUTH. It's very odd.


That's why they get so much abuse. They're not just saying "I have a different opinion to you", they're saying "I know the truth and you're all dickheads for not seeing it too. Look at this_ proof_ ..."

The very basis of their belief system requires them to consider everyone else to be a fucking idiot and to ignore any and all reason, which is why they're so offensive.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 23, 2019)

Mrs Miggins said:


> As someone said on the Moon Landing thread, people who believe in this nonsense seem to want to just feel superior to everyone else because they know THE TRUTH. It's very odd.



Yes, and everyone who disagrees is just a sheep that's been misled by the MAINSTREAM MEDIA!  And the SYSTEM!  Only a few ENLIGHTENED people know the truth.


----------



## JuanTwoThree (Jul 23, 2019)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Only a few ENLIGHTENED people know the truth.



Enlightened people who almost invariably can't spell the bollocks that they write about. There's a definite correlation. Lots of intelligent sensible people also can't spell in general, but palaeontologists can usually spell stegosaurus.



Whtstruistru said:


> If you actually read the pdf files I posted you will come across what is called a 'kangaroo' Court!!  The powers that be are trying to make examples!!  Scaremongering people!! As they do everyday and always have done!!  If said gentlemen is informed enough then he will have appealed the decision and attained real justice through a *Court de Joure*!!! They won't publicise that though!!
> To answer existentialist;
> I met a person through my work who was part of a freedom movement!!  At the, time he had told me of the information here given and was in the process of becoming a common law barrister!!  At first I dismissed his notions but after a little experiment by myself I found out that it was right!! Ask any LEGAL representative if you want about contracts!! Without a signature they are all null and void!!  They know this........ Consensus facit *legum*



court de jure, unless it's jour. I neither know nor care.

Consensus facit legem


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 23, 2019)

JuanTwoThree said:


> Enlightened people who almost invariably can't spell the bollocks that they write about. There's a definite correlation. Lots of intelligent sensible people also can't spell in general, but palaeontologists can usually spell stegosaurus.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Odd mistakes for a _solicitor_ to make.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 23, 2019)

Mrs Miggins said:


> As someone said on the Moon Landing thread, people who believe in this nonsense seem to want to just feel superior to everyone else because they know THE TRUTH. It's very odd.



Yes and for all they exhort the sheeple to wake up, they'd be devastated if we actually did. Maybe we should try it one day, everyone just suddenly convert to flat earthism overnight and see how the original recipe flat earthers react. I bet they'd be fucking furious.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 23, 2019)

ElizabethofYork said:


> How did you get to be homeless?



Attempting to pay rent with homemade banknotes I reckon.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

Blah blah blah   love this place


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 7, 2019)

Oh Christ, he's back.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Blah blah blah   love this place


We love you too. What have you got for us today? 

What are your views on 911?


----------



## existentialist (Aug 7, 2019)

Definitely time to change this thread title - "Freeman-on-the-land idiocies", perhaps? Mods? 

*own post reported*


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

Hi all my haters!!! Been away for a while as my phone got stolen as I slept!! Found this new one just now only got half a battery so I thought I would amuse you all for 5


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Hi all my haters!!! Been away for a while as my phone got stolen as I slept!! Found this new one just now only got half a battery so I thought I would amuse you all for 5


yeh wait a day or two and i'll grab your new phone too.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 7, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> We love you too. What have you got for us today?
> 
> What are your views on 911?


911 is a joke in yo town


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Hi all my haters!!! Been away for a while as my phone got stolen as I slept!! Found this new one just now only got half a battery so I thought I would amuse you all for 5



Bless.  Nobody hates you.  We enjoy laughing at you.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Hi all my haters!!! Been away for a while as my phone got stolen as I slept!! Found this new one just now only got half a battery so I thought I would amuse you all for 5


I don't think you're important enough to be hated on here. We hate you in the same way as the cat, slowly dismembering a mouse, hates it.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

Any of you heard of  Windows on the world?  Go take a look at the site. Jeremy corbyns brother is amazing


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 7, 2019)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Bless.  Nobody hates you.  We enjoy laughing at you.


Don't be mean. I, for one, look forward to his insightful posts and appreciate the research that he puts in to uncover the reality of the world we live in.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Any of you heard of  Windows on the world?


I used to drink there regularly.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I used to drink there regularly.



Is it true that it was so high that if you looked along the horizon you could just about make out the flatness of the Earth?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 7, 2019)

8ball said:


> Is it true that it was so high that if you looked along the horizon you could just about make out the flatness of the Earth?


Pretty much. What amazed me most was that you could actually look _down_ on the chemtrails.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Jeremy corbyns brother is amazing



He's a climate change denier & dickhead.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

All of you cannot deny the fact that the world is on the brink of change..............


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 7, 2019)

The world is constantly changing.

And yet throughout all that, FOTLerism steadily remains absolute bollocks.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> All of you cannot deny the fact that the world is on the brink of change..............



Corbyn's brother can.


----------



## editor (Aug 7, 2019)

*title changed by request


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

Just playing along with u all!! This site is just as good as the British democracy system!!  All too busy arguing over issues that are pointless all the while the Real issues never get resolved!! Bravo bravo


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Just playing along with u all!! This site is just as good as the British democracy system!!  All too busy arguing over issues that are pointless all the while the Real issues never get resolved!! Bravo bravo



I admire your sparing use of capital letters.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Attempting to pay rent with homemade banknotes I reckon.


Their called 'promissory notes' look them up!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

8ball said:


> I admire your sparing use of capital letters.


Ha ha  well pointed out!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

*YOUR Right to Remain Silent

Update: End of November, 2011*

You have the *Right* to Remain Silent. This is a basic Common Law RIGHT, and trumps anything & everything else ... such as demands to fill out Census Forms, Electoral Register, Birth Certificates, TV Licencing ... indeed ANYTHING ... including letters warning you of the 'dire penalties' for not complying with whatever has (or will ever be) written into Statutes.

_*You have the RIGHT to Remain Silent.*_

_*AND -NEVER- -EVER- FORGET THAT.*_

This includes "not saying anything", "not writing anything" ... and "not signing anything" you would choose not to say, write or sign.

Whenever a Policyman might arrest you, and 'cautions' you, this is the FIRST THING he must tell you.

So ... take him at his word!

This means NOT signing any Bail Acceptance he may offer you, once he has charged you.

If you get a letter, making demands for information, you can write back *this* letter(*). Simply add your address at the top, and a date (as normal), before printing it. DO -NOT- SIGN IT IN YOUR OWN 'NAME'. DO -NOT- PUT PEN TO PAPER. Leave it 'signed' as printed ("Peaceful Inhabitant", etc). Just put it in an envelope, stapled to the UNFILLED-IN form you have been sent, and post it back _"Received signed for"_.

(** Click here for the one I sent to the Borough Solicitor*)

If anyone ever suggests that your 'silence' is evidence of 'guilt', then your response would be: _"Guilt? Guilt of what?"_

Their answer would be something like: _"Evidence you have refused to fill out the form"._

Your response would be: _"Do not, on any account, fret or bother yourself with such 'evidence'. I perfectly agree that I have not filled out the form ... and the fact that it is still blank is proof of that. But I'm not 'guilty' of anything, because I have the mitigating circumstance of *'lawful excuse'* ... the fact being that *I'm standing on my LAWFUL RIGHT TO SILENCE*"._

If they are sufficiently STUPID as to actually take you to Court, you can ask the Magistrates if they are 'Justices of the PEACE' THEY WILL CONFIRM THAT THEY ARE EXACTLY THAT.

So you can then say: _"I have the Common Law RIGHT to Remain Silent, and that is about as peaceful as anyone could possibly be. You, as Justices of the PEACE, have SOLEMNLY-SWORN to uphold the PEACE. Thus you MUST uphold my RIGHT to PEACE, and MUST (THEREFORE) IMMEDIATELY DISMISS THIS CASE. If you don't do that, then I will dismiss it myself. However, if I have to do it for you, then I will also have you arrested and charged under the Statutory Declarations Act 1835, Section 13, for UNLAWFULLY ADMINISTERING YOUR OATHS OF OFFICE, and not upholding my RIGHT to live in PEACE"_.

The Charge Sheet you will fill in ... and hand back into the same Court Offices (so take a blank copy with you!) can be found *here*. (Just the second page is all that is necessary ... but you could hand in the first page as 'subsidiary explanation').

They.
Don't.
Like.
It.
Up 'em.

Veronica, November 2011



*Update: End of November, 2011 - 'Twisting the knife'*

You could, if you wished, 'twist the knife' a little further by adding the following "PS" to any letter:

_"PS If I were to fill out your paperwork, I would sign it very clearly *"Under Protest & Duress"*. Consequently everything filled in would be null & void IN LAW and, as a consequence, would not count - because it would not be legally or lawfully binding."_

They.
Still.
Don't.
Like.
It.
Up 'em.

Veronica, End November 2011


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

Policyman


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

All Judges take the Judicial Oath when they are sworn in:
I will well and truly serve our Sovereign Lady Queen Elizabeth the Second, in the office of Justice of the Peace/Judge, and I will do right to all manner of people after the laws and usages of the realm without fear or favour, affectation or ill-will
Administrative Law (so called) forms no part of the laws and usages of the realm - which Judges swear to the Sovereign to uphold via Promissory Oath that binds them to a specific course of conduct  otherwise they cannot be said to perform their judicial duties impartially.
Performing administrative acts on behalf of the executive is incompatible with the terms of the Oath, which Judges take when they are created under Section 2 of the Promissory Oaths Act 1868, which every Judge must take. A breach of that Oath is perjury.
If the argument is that Common Law has no basis in administrative law proceedings (and therefore is irrelevant), it should be noted that administrative law has not been sanctioned by Parliament. It should also be noted that the crime of murder is a Common Law crime (manslaughter, etc. are Statutory  but murder still remains Common Law). Thus to disavow the Common Law, disavows the crime of murder. The consequence would be that someone could pre-meditate to take the life of another (without, necessarily, requiring any reason whatsoever!), and no crime would have been committed in that a circumstance. This is the absurd position we would all be in, without the protection of the Common Law.
Actions which overthrow and subvert the laws and Constitution of the Kingdom and which would lead to the destruction of the Constitution are unlawful.
The case of R V Thistlewood (1820) established that To destroy the Constitution of the country is an act of treason.
Halsburys Administrative Law 2011 confirms that administrative law is (nothing more than) an arrangement between the Executive and the Judiciary. And that the Law is absolutely clear on this subject. There is NO authority for administrative courts in this country, and NO Act could be passed to legitimise them. (SPECIFIC REFERENCES TO FOLLOW )

Statement of Offence:
Administering an unlawful Oath, contrary to Section 13 of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835.

Particulars of Offence:
(+) being a Judge/Magistrate (-) for the county of ..(+) on the  day of . unlawfully administered an Oath to  (+) in a manner which the said Judge/Magistrate (-) had no jurisdiction, namely:
The Judge/Magistrate (-) has sworn an Oath to well and truly serve our Sovereign Lady Queen Elizabeth the Second in the Office of Judge/Magistrate (-), and to do right by all manner of people after the laws and usages of this realm, without fear or favour, affectation or ill-will.
The aforesaid Oath does not authorize any Judge/Magistrate (-) in the Common Law Jurisdiction of England and Wales to adjudicate any Hearing in which the matter is to be decided in any way other than by a Jury. Furthermore, in the Hearing in question there was no Injured Party, no corpus delecti, and no Defendant. Therefore the Common Law Oath under which the Judge/Magistrate (-) claimed authority is unlawful and constitutes an offence contrary to Section 13 of the Statutory Declarations Act 1835. The fact that the Judge/Magistrate (-) sat is considered to be prima facie evidence of the offence. 

(- = delete as applicable; + = insert name, as applicable)


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

There is a lot more to come.............


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Their called 'promissory notes' look them up!



And how are those working out for you?


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> There is a lot more to come.............



How about just linking to it and referring to salient content?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> So you can then say: _"I have the Common Law RIGHT to Remain Silent, and that is about as peaceful as anyone could possibly be. You, as Justices of the PEACE, have SOLEMNLY-SWORN to uphold the PEACE. Thus you MUST uphold my RIGHT to PEACE, and MUST (THEREFORE) IMMEDIATELY DISMISS THIS CASE. If you don't do that, then I will dismiss it myself. However, if I have to do it for you, then I will also have you arrested and charged under the Statutory Declarations Act 1835, Section 13, for UNLAWFULLY ADMINISTERING YOUR OATHS OF OFFICE, and not upholding my RIGHT to live in PEACE"_.



This is absolutely correct except that you should always also refer to the judge as Fuckface.

He's far more likely to to be impressed by your knowledge of the law if you use the correct terminology.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> This is absolutely correct except that you should always also refer to the judge as Fuckface.
> 
> He's far more likely to to be impressed by your knowledge of the law if you use the correct terminology.


So you Do accept that it's not all gobbledegook!! Yay


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> There is a lot more to come.............



Just pay your council tax and stop parking in resident only bays.  They are resident only for a reason, people need to park outside their house and their right trumps your desire to not have to walk into town.

If you fuckwits invested half as much time into positive things as this pathetic wibble you'd probably have cured serious disease or colonised Mars or something.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> So you Do accept that it's not all gobbledegook!! Yay



Totally. Also remember that if you are ever apprehended by a policeman, you can assert your rights as a freeman on the land by knocking off his helmet and shouting "Fuck you dickhead. I reject your authority. I am a Freeman on The Land".

Works every time.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 7, 2019)

And, don't forget a pregnant woman has the right to relieve herself in a policeman’s helmet.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 7, 2019)

Woop woop that's the sound of the policyman


----------



## Proper Tidy (Aug 7, 2019)

Should be policypeople really


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Just pay your council tax and stop parking in resident only bays.  They are resident only for a reason, people need to park outside their house and their right trumps your desire to not have to walk into town.
> 
> If you fuckwits invested half as much time into positive things as this pathetic wibble you'd probably have cured serious disease or colonised Mars or something.


Have you heard about the cure for cancer?  Well it's out there if you look hard enough. But there again let's spend millions and millions on prevention and treatment rather than cure! Ffs  they have cloned sheep! Cracked the human genome!


----------



## Combustible (Aug 7, 2019)

editor said:


> *title changed by request



Idiocies

Id-io-cies

ID- In Our - SEAS

Because your "name" is only your legal identity (ID) in admirality law (in our seas). On land in the realm of common law, one signs as Freeman of the Family XXX

(did I do this right)


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

It's OK to mock things you surely don't want to understand.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Have you heard about the cure for cancer?  Well it's out there if you look hard enough. But there again let's spend millions and millions on prevention and treatment rather than cure! Ffs  they have cloned sheep! Cracked the human genome!



Vitamin C or smoking loads of weed?


----------



## existentialist (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Their called 'promissory notes' look them up!


He did, which is why he's calling them "home made bank notes"


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Have you heard about the cure for cancer?  Well it's out there if you look hard enough. But there again let's spend millions and millions on prevention and treatment rather than cure! Ffs  they have cloned sheep! Cracked the human genome!



Let me guess.  Is it vitamin c by chance?  Or Colloidal Silver?

Did Steve Jobs die in vain?


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Let me guess.  Is it vitamin c by chance?  Or Colloidal Silver?
> 
> Did Steve Jobs die in vain?












Home
	










Miracle Medicine 
	










Medicine vid's & Info
	



*Dare you?*
The Truth Will Set You Free, But First It Will Really Piss You Off!

_"It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published, or to rely on the judgment of trusted physicians or authoritative medical guidelines. I take no pleasure in this conclusion, which I reached slowly and reluctantly over my two decades as an editor of The New England Journal of Medicine.” _

_and;_

_A review of seventy-four clinical trials of antidepressants, for example, found that thirty-seven of thirty-eight positive studies [that praised the drugs] were published. But of the thirty-six negative studies, thirty-three were either not published or published in a form that conveyed a positive outcome.”_

Marcia Angell, MD, “Drug Companies and Doctors: A story of Corruption.” NY Review of Books, Jan. 15, 2009.


_“As a chemist trained to interpret data, it is incomprehensible to me that physicians can ignore the clear evidence that chemotherapy does much, much more harm than good.”_
Alan Nixon, Ph.D., Past President of The American Chemical Society 
_“My studies have proven conclusively that untreated cancer victims actually live up to four times longer than treated individuals.  For a typical type of cancer, people who refused treatment lived for an average of 12 & ½ years.  Those who accepted surgery or other kinds of treatment [chemotherapy, radiation, cobalt] lived an average of only three years.”_
Dr. Hardin Jones, Physiology, University of California, Berkeley
_Iatrogenic deaths (deaths caused by doctors) is the 3rd leading cause of death in the United States according to the medical establishment’s own statistics.  Death by doctor is so normal that they have actually coined a word for it:  ‘iatrogenic’._

Health Wyze Report
_Everyone should know that most cancer research is largely a fraud, and that the major cancer research organizations are derelict in their duties to the people who support them._
_Read more here!_

Linus Pauling


_All nuclear and chemotherapy treatments are known to cause and spread cancers.  These are flippantly referred to as ‘known side effects’.  Cancer screenings do the same, by likewise exposing victims to radiation and various industrial poisons.  This is why breast cancer rates explode with expansive mammography testing. _
Health Wyze Report
_Please watch the below presentation:_

*The Health Wyze Report*

_And then click here for more revelations._


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Have you heard about the cure for cancer?  Well it's out there if you look hard enough. But there again let's spend millions and millions on prevention and treatment rather than cure! Ffs  they have cloned sheep! Cracked the human genome!



This conspiracy theory has been around for years, it's not just bonkers, but fucking insulting to those facing cancer, you fucking lowlife twat.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Didn't we used to have a rule about c&p odysseys?  

Sub jazz drivel by either a troll or a deeply unwell person.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> This conspiracy theory has been around for years, it's not just bonkers, but fucking insulting to those facing cancer, you fucking lowlife twat.


Think the words you are looking for is 'pond scum' and I have lost friends to cancer so I agree with you but I look towards the so called 'medical professionals' to vent my anger!


----------



## lazythursday (Aug 7, 2019)

Why do all the freemen think that 'common law' is some timeless set of noble rules and rights, rather than what it actually is, judge-made law created through precedents, which actually is reinterpreted all the time? 

And why would it be in the slightest bit in anyone's favour to prefer the parts of the legal system made by elite judges (the very top of the privately educated establishment) rather than statute law which is created through at least a flawed democratic process with an opportunity to have an input?


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Have you heard about the cure for cancer?  Well it's out there if you look hard enough. But there again let's spend millions and millions on prevention and treatment rather than cure! Ffs  they have cloned sheep! Cracked the human genome!


Fuck off you horrible cruel little person. 
We don't want you here.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Think the words you are looking for is 'pond scum' and I have lost friends to cancer so I agree with you but I look towards the so called 'medical professionals' to vent my anger!



You have just quoted Dr. Hardin Jones, Physiology, University of California, Berkeley - who in died in 1978, the quote is from a paper, not study, published in 1956, so certainly not 'recently revealed', as loons like you claim.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> This conspiracy theory has been around for years, it's not just bonkers, but fucking insulting to those facing cancer, you fucking lowlife twat.



There's a whole set of conspiracy theories to pick apart in that post, combined with a few half-truths and a couple of things that are actually true.

Very Trumpian - there's a name for this particular technique but the name escapes me.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Think the words you are looking for is 'pond scum' and I have lost friends to cancer so I agree with you but I look towards the so called 'medical professionals' to vent my anger!



You insult their memory daily.  You're either a very nasty troll or a fucked up terrible person.  Either way its time for you to return to your cesspit corner of the internet.


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

It's not hard 


joustmaster said:


> Fuck off you horrible cruel little person.
> We don't want you here.


OK I'll go and fucking do one! But Mark my words......... Zionism is predominant throughout the world and the ones at the top do not fucking care for anyone or anything else!!


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 7, 2019)

And there it is.  Sure as night follows day.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> But Mark my words......... Zionism is predominant throughout the world...



HOUSE!!


----------



## Whtstruistru (Aug 7, 2019)

You all just argue between yourselves....... Kirk out


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> It's not hard
> 
> OK I'll go and fucking do one! But Mark my words......... Zionism is predominant throughout the world and the ones at the top do not fucking care for anyone or anything else!!



WTF? 

That post & the ones about a cure for cancer have been reported, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> WTF?
> 
> That post & the ones about a cure for cancer have been reported, don't let the door hit your arse on the way out.



Not sure there's anything strictly bannable there, aside from being deeply tedious.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 7, 2019)

8ball said:


> Not sure there's anything strictly bannable there, aside from being deeply tedious.



Racist conspiracy theories aren't bannable?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 7, 2019)

8ball said:


> Not sure there's anything strictly bannable there, aside from being deeply tedious.



I disagree, I think the 'don't act like a dick' rule comes into play here.

ETA - and rule 11...
*
Monomaniacs.* 'Sheeple'-accusers, bigoted gun nuts, ranting xenophobes, cut'n'pasters, god-squadders, disruptive 'comical' alter-egos, conspiraloons, fruitloops, small minded bigots etc. are not welcome.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Racist conspiracy theories aren't bannable?



Most likely too well-layered with plausible deniability devices.
cupid_stunt 's "don't be a dick" clause is more solid imo.


----------



## Gromit (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Have you heard about the cure for cancer?  Well it's out there if you look hard enough. But there again let's spend millions and millions on prevention and treatment rather than cure! Ffs  they have cloned sheep! Cracked the human genome!


Yes there is indeed a cure for cancer.
Chemotherapy
Radiotherapy
Plus other stuff.
Many people regularly get cured of cancer.
Not all cancers though and some need different cures to others.
So the hunt continues for new and better and specific cures for specific cancers.

Now if you'd said cure for common cold was being surpressed because cold remedies sell by the tump load so it's more profitable to surpressed it I might have more sympathy as that's slightly plausable.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 7, 2019)

8ball said:


> Not sure there's anything strictly bannable there, aside from being deeply tedious.



That rancid stuff about cancer is very insulting.  This site is not short of people who have been seriously affected by cancer one way or another both past and present.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

Gromit said:


> Yes there is indeed a cure for cancer.
> Chemotherapy
> Radiotherapy
> Plus other stuff.
> ...



This is part of the problem.  Cancer is a blanket name for a huge group of diseases.
If you talk about "the cure for infections", people will look at you like you're daft, but it's a very similar thing to say.

We've beaten the bulk of infectious disease that used to claim loads of lives, but people still die of infections (and some of our best tools are sadly under threat right now).

Another part of the problem is that people who should be doing cancer research keep looking at u75 between tasks...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 7, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> That rancid stuff about cancer is very insulting.  This site is not short of people who have been seriously affected by cancer one way or another both past and present.



That's the reason I reported him, then I saw him blaming the Jews, so had to report that too.

He was mildly amusing before, but well overstepped the mark with those posts IMO.


----------



## editor (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Home
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Keep posting up garbage from loon websites written by fuckwits for gullible buffoons and you'll be out of here.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> That rancid stuff about cancer is very insulting.  This site is not short of people who have been seriously affected by cancer one way or another both past and present.



You get people who have lost people to cancer who are extremely deluded about the disease(s) and therapies, so while it's kind of offensive in a way similar to anti-vaxxers, I don't think the experiences of people on here is that relevant.  Most people have been affected in some way or other.


----------



## friedaweed (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> At the end of the day people what it all boils down to is we have been unknowingly deceived by the world as we know it!! I just hope that the future generations realise our mistakes and make them right!! Educate your children and let them decide what's right and wrong!!! No the despotic leaders we all blindly follow...........



You're David Crosby and I claim my £5


----------



## friedaweed (Aug 7, 2019)

editor said:


> Keep posting up garbage from loon websites written by fuckwits for gullible buffoons and you'll be out of here.


Ahhh! Can't we just keep one of them to play with?


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> That's the reason I reported him, then I saw him blaming the Jews, so had to report that too.



Yeah, done knowing that there are good reasons that decent folk may need to speak about Zionism and distinguish that from being anti-Semitic.  Another bit of ban-proofing.

Got to wonder what the actual point of these posts is meant to be.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 7, 2019)

editor said:


> Keep posting up garbage from loon websites written by fuckwits for gullible buffoons and you'll be out of here.



Liked, but did you miss this post?



Whtstruistru said:


> OK I'll go and fucking do one! But Mark my words......... Zionism is predominant throughout the world and the ones at the top do not fucking care for anyone or anything else!!


----------



## mango5 (Aug 7, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I used to drink there regularly.


I liberated a cocktail shaker from there in 1997. Only got rid of it last year.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Liked, but did you miss this post?



Zionism *is* pretty pre-dominant, though, isn't it?  Supported by the UK, USA, Europe, Australasia, Russia is a bit iffy...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 7, 2019)

8ball said:


> Zionism *is* pretty pre-dominant, though, isn't it?  Supported by the UK, USA, Europe, Australasia, Russia is a bit iffy...



Anti-Zionism is not inherently antisemitic if you are talking about how the government of Israel goes about its business, but that's not what these loons are doing when they come out with shit like - "Zionism is predominant throughout the world and the ones at the top do not fucking care for anyone or anything else!!"


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> Anti-Zionism is not inherently antisemitic if you are talking about how the government of Israel goes about its business, but that's not what these loons are doing when they come out with shit like - "Zionism is predominant throughout the world and the ones at the top do not fucking care for anyone or anything else!!"



Of course not.  Which is why they have learned to go on about Zionism rather than scream "IT'S ALL THE FAULT OF THE JOOOZ!!!".


----------



## nogojones (Aug 7, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Vitamin C or smoking loads of weed?


If you refuse to recognise the cancers authority, it can't do anything


----------



## nogojones (Aug 7, 2019)

Gromit said:


> Yes there is indeed a cure for cancer.
> Chemotherapy
> Radiotherapy
> Soapbar



Fixed it for you


----------



## existentialist (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> It's OK to mock things you surely don't want to understand.


Phew. For a moment there I was worried that it might not be OK to mock things I couldn't give a shit about.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 7, 2019)

Whtstruistru said:


> Home
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Would you dish out this bullshit to, say, someone who had been diagnosed with cancer?

Actually, yes, I guess you would. Which says everything about you that needs to be said.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 7, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Didn't we used to have a rule about c&p odysseys?
> 
> Sub jazz drivel by either a troll or a deeply unwell person.


He won't be here long if he keeps this up.


----------



## existentialist (Aug 7, 2019)

8ball said:


> There's a whole set of conspiracy theories to pick apart in that post, combined with a few half-truths and a couple of things that are actually true.
> 
> Very Trumpian - there's a name for this particular technique but the name escapes me.


Picture clue for you:


----------



## 8ball (Aug 7, 2019)

existentialist said:


> Picture clue for you:
> 
> View attachment 180044



It's definitely a variety of it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 8, 2019)

cupid_stunt said:


> This conspiracy theory has been around for years, it's not just bonkers, but fucking insulting to those facing cancer, you fucking lowlife twat.



I get very angry at people who talk about "THE cure for cancer", as though cancer is a monolithic disease, rather than a massive complex of differing disease processes whose only common factors tend to be malignancy and mutation.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Aug 8, 2019)

nogojones said:


> Fixed it for you



I'm pretty sure that some of the soapbar I smoked in the '80s was carcinogenic, what with the amount of plastic it tasted like it contained!


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 9, 2019)

Why did she get banned? 

She was better fun than most of you miserable cunts.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Why did she get banned?
> 
> She was better fun than most of you miserable cunts.



Yeah the cancer stuff was hilarious.

lol triggered etc


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 9, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Yeah the cancer stuff was hilarious.
> 
> lol triggered etc


Missed that. Fair do's.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Missed that. Fair do's.



He was funny up to a point, then cancer cure bullshit C&P stuff was bad enough, but then he moved onto basically blaming the Jews, it was clear where it was going.



Whtstruistru said:


> It's not hard
> 
> OK I'll go and fucking do one! But Mark my words......... Zionism is predominant throughout the world and the ones at the top do not fucking care for anyone or anything else!!


----------



## rekil (Aug 9, 2019)

I think it was the _joooos_ stuff that got it over the line.

eta: what cs said


----------



## cupid_stunt (Aug 9, 2019)

copliker said:


> I think it was the _joooos_ stuff that got it over the line.
> 
> eta: what cs said



Yep.


----------



## planetgeli (Aug 9, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> I'm pretty sure that some of the soapbar I smoked in the '80s was carcinogenic, what with the amount of plastic it tasted like it contained!



It definitely did contain plastic, this was common. Loads of other adulterants too such as glue and engine oil.

My mate used to buy 9-bars. We once discovered a 50p piece in the middle of one. This was when 50ps weighed 13.5g. I also think this was an indication some of that crap was re-pressed in the UK.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 9, 2019)

planetgeli said:


> We once discovered a 50p piece in the middle of one. This was when 50ps weighed 13.5g.


Idiots. 

We weighted them with 2p bits.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Jan 29, 2020)

Anyone know if this dude is a fotler? 

My money is on yes!! 









						Man arrested 'for trying to steal Magna Carta'
					

No damage done to ancient document




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## Argonia (Nov 2, 2020)

Magna Carta is trending at Twatter because some twat posted up that if you put Magna Carta Article 61 in the window of your business you don't need to close in the lockdown.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 2, 2020)




----------



## cupid_stunt (Nov 2, 2020)

Argonia said:


> Magna Carta is trending at Twatter because some twat posted up that if you put Magna Carta Article 61 in the window of your business you don't need to close in the lockdown.



yeah, it's under discussion from this post, here -









						Discussion: UK anti-vaxx 'freedom' morons, protests and QAnon idiots
					

Good grief, it is so sad that people who would normally be only on the fringe have been so duped by that imported american loonsupddery as to believe all this twaddle.




					www.urban75.net


----------



## JimW (Nov 2, 2020)

Argonia said:


> Magna Carta is trending at Twatter because some twat posted up that if you put Magna Carta Article 61 in the window of your business you don't need to close in the lockdown.


Because you'll be going bust beforehand when everyone steers clear?


----------



## 19force8 (Nov 3, 2020)

Argonia said:


> Magna Carta is trending at Twatter because some twat posted up that if you put Magna Carta Article 61 in the window of your business you don't need to close in the lockdown.


If only it was that simple.

Article 61 is about compensation for wrongs done so in order to invoke it you have to shut down. Then you have to find the 25 barons responsible for keeping and causing the charter to be observed and get four of them to report the matter to King John [or, in his "absence abroad", the chief justice] who then has 40 days to make redress. If no redress is made then the barons can take any of King John's castles, land, possessions, etc. they like until redress is made.

By which time the lockdown's over and who cares anyway.


----------



## ddraig (Nov 3, 2020)

Argonia said:


> Magna Carta is trending at Twatter because some twat posted up that if you put Magna Carta Article 61 in the window of your business you don't need to close in the lockdown.


no link? video has since disappeared


more info here www.urban75.net/forums/threads/uk-anti-vaxx-freedom-morons-protests-and-qanon-idiots.370621/page-34


----------



## existentialist (Nov 3, 2020)

19force8 said:


> If only it was that simple.
> 
> Article 61 is about compensation for wrongs done so in order to invoke it you have to shut down. Then you have to find the 25 barons responsible for keeping and causing the charter to be observed and get four of them to report the matter to King John [or, in his "absence abroad", the chief justice] who then has 40 days to make redress. If no redress is made then the barons can take any of King John's castles, land, possessions, etc. they like until redress is made.
> 
> By which time the lockdown's over and who cares anyway.


Back in my day, they were called "barrack room lawyers". And were generally seriously unpopular, generally because they made simple things ridiculously complicated. That's not changed, then


----------



## brogdale (Nov 3, 2020)

existentialist said:


> Back in my day, they were called "barrack room lawyers". And were generally seriously unpopular, generally because they made simple things ridiculously complicated. That's not changed, then


It's an interesting phrase, isn't it?
Have to admit I've always been disturbed how its pejorative use suits those who would prefer that the lower orders know their place.


----------



## teqniq (Nov 29, 2020)

This nonsense is costing some gullible businesses a lot of money









						Tattoo shop raided again as Aron Walton confronts officers
					

"That warrant there has no wet signature from a judge"




					www.bristolpost.co.uk
				












						Can Magna Carta and “common law” give you immunity from Covid regulations?
					

In recent days, the news has carried reports of business owners who have been fined tens of thousands of pounds after defying the “Covid regulations” and refusing to close their busines…




					thesecretbarrister.com


----------



## dessiato (Nov 29, 2020)

I thought that article 61 was removed just after Magna Carta was signed. If I’m right they’re wrong on two counts.


----------



## fishfinger (Nov 29, 2020)

dessiato said:


> I thought that article 61 was removed just after Magna Carta was signed. If I’m right they’re wrong on two counts.


Clause 61 was removed from the 1216 version of Magna Carta. So, it was only law for 1 year.


----------



## Roadkill (Nov 29, 2020)

As soon as anyone starts using Magna Carta as a reason to do or not do something, you can safely assume they're a loon.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2020)

Roadkill said:


> As soon as anyone starts using Magna Carta as a reason to do or not do something, you can safely assume they're a loon.


Or some sort of Baron maybe.


----------



## Roadkill (Nov 29, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> Or some sort of Baron maybe.



Or just barren.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2020)

Roadkill said:


> Or just barren.


Hopefully...


----------



## Gromit (Nov 29, 2020)

Roadkill said:


> As soon as anyone starts using Magna Carta as a reason to do or not do something, you can safely assume they're a loon.


4 parts are still valid:









						Magna Carta unpicked
					

The three key Magna Carta clauses that remain in use today



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Gromit (Nov 29, 2020)

butchersapron said:


> Or some sort of Baron maybe.


There are 426 Barons. Which 25 get to invoke Magna Carter and which 401 are left out in the cold? Because it it granted rights (briefly) to 25 Barons. 

Baron Von Greenback should be one.


----------



## BristolEcho (Nov 29, 2020)

teqniq said:


> This nonsense is costing some gullible businesses a lot of money
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
What an absolute prick.


----------



## Argonia (Nov 29, 2020)

“Article 61” of Magna Carta doesn’t allow you to ignore Covid-19 regulations - Full Fact
					

Clause 61 of the original document set out rules for specific barons. The clause was removed after a year.




					fullfact.org


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 29, 2020)

BristolEcho said:


> What an absolute prick.



I get it. Because tattoos. Very good.


----------



## BristolEcho (Nov 29, 2020)

SpookyFrank said:


> I get it. Because tattoos. Very good.



I wish I could claim this.


----------



## NoXion (Nov 29, 2020)

Argonia said:


> “Article 61” of Magna Carta doesn’t allow you to ignore Covid-19 regulations - Full Fact
> 
> 
> Clause 61 of the original document set out rules for specific barons. The clause was removed after a year.
> ...



Even among those idiots, the best victory that I've ever seen them claim is the temporary confusion of the police and the courts. If all it took to get one out of paying fines and taxes was some kind of magical phraseology, then solicitors would never bother specialising in that area.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 29, 2020)

NoXion said:


> Even among those idiots, the best victory that I've ever seen them claim is the temporary confusion of the police and the courts.



I think maybe it's not even confusion, more that the system assumes most people will basically play ball, with respect to minor stuff at least, so you can delay things just by not doing. Any sort of refusal to participate would probably 'work' in that respect but FOTLering would do. Obviously the longer term outcome is that you get kicked much harder but maybe it looks like a temporary victory if you're a bit dense.


----------



## NoXion (Nov 29, 2020)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I think maybe it's not even confusion, more that the system assumes most people will basically play ball, with respect to minor stuff at least, so you can delay things just by not doing. Any sort of refusal to participate would probably 'work' in that respect but FOTLering would do. Obviously the longer term outcome is that you get kicked much harder but maybe it looks like a temporary victory if you're a bit dense.



I used the word confusion, because it seems that in a lot of cases cops and judges have never encountered this kind of thing before, and don't appear to have a ready answer for the superficially self-confident way in which FOTLer types bring forth complete nonsense. I'd have thought that if this kind of thing was better known among law enforcement and legal circles, that they would have a more definitive response from the get-go.

But maybe I'm not giving the system enough credit; perhaps the seemingly languid response is actually part of its mechanisms, giving people a certain degree of flexibility in case they have a sudden attack of being sensible for once or something. I'm not a copper or a lawyer so I can only speculate.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 29, 2020)

Poss useful little primer.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 7, 2021)

Plymouth coffee shop fined £42K for Covid breach
					

The coffee shop owners cited Magna Carta as making them exempt from regulations.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




£42,000 fine



> The cafe, Deanna Yeates and Michael Pendlebury were each fined £10,000.
> Finla was also ordered to pay £8,221 costs and the two owners were each ordered to pay £2,002 costs.
> Pendlebury, 35, of Stannary Lane, Plympton and Yeates, 34, also of Stannary Lane, did not enter a plea or appear at the court.
> 'Numerous complaints'​The firm was fined £1,000 on 6 November and £2,000 on 7 November for breaching regulations on allowing consumption of food and drink indoors, but had refused to pay, the court heard.
> The court heard the owners had made a statement saying they were exempt from the regulations, citing Magna Carta.



She died in vain


----------



## T & P (Jul 7, 2021)




----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 7, 2021)

T & P said:


>


That meme pops up on the squaddie sites frequently.


----------



## Doctor Carrot (Jul 7, 2021)

T & P said:


>


A hahaha ffs! As I was reading Bahnhof's post I thought exactly if this meme and I was all set to post it... I scroll down and see you've done it on the very next post


----------



## two sheds (Jul 7, 2021)

> Pendlebury, 35, of Stannary Lane, Plympton and Yeates, 34, also of Stannary Lane, did not enter a plea or appear at the court.



Cunning - because they didn't appear at court they refused to stand under the ruling so the court has no jurisdiction over them


----------



## Dogsauce (Jul 7, 2021)

two sheds said:


> Cunning - because they didn't appear at court they refused to stand under the ruling so the court has no jurisdiction over them


The court didn’t get their names right either, should be in ALL CAPS, right? Otherwise they’re not a legal entity or something, the soft pricks.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2021)

Oh, there's more about the Plymouth cafe in this report, including the threat of prison time.



> The court also heard that during one visit on November 7 by an Environmental Health officer, they were confronted by a person - it was not known who the person was - who accused them of "high treason" before threatening them with "the gallows".
> 
> The court also noted a video put out on social media where Yates warned that the council was committing "treason".



Treason, off to the gallows! 



> He called all the "peripheral matters" raised by the defendants in their numerous letters and emails to the council "fluff and flannel" which could be discarded.
> 
> He said the defendants were clearly subject to the regulations and the arguments they put forward as to why they were not, such as Magna Carta, were "completely wrong and irrelevant to what I have to decide".
> 
> He said he had read the "numerous letters" from the defendants sent to the council setting out their "spurious arguments" as to why they were not liable under these regulations and they did not have time to put them in place, adding that it would have taken "10 to 15 minutes to cordon off an area" to comply with the regulations.



I bet those letters were in green comic sans. 



> Deputy District Judge Hine said the payment was "payable forthwith... if they don't pay it there will be enforcement proceedings which will ultimately, if it's wilful and neglectful and I'm sitting, they will be going to prison".



Pay up, or go down. 









						Finla owners 'could face prison' if they don't pay £42,000
					

A district Judge has dished out scathing criticism of the Plympton cafe and its owners calling their behaviour 'despicable and outrageous' adding that if they refuse to pay their fines they could face prison




					www.plymouthherald.co.uk


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 8, 2021)

I don't understand why the FotL types believe the Magna Carta** is the start and end of all laws. (Not that it actually covers what they think it does) All laws that succeed the Magna Carta** are signed by the Monarch of the day* so carry equal weight. If a law is superseded it's superseded, it's not like its a physical law were it just is e.g. Gravitational Constant G .
But it's a human construct so can change with the times by humans

*Apart from the Civil War years

**Edited Carter to the correct Carta


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 8, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> That meme pops up on the squaddie sites frequently.



Every time our brave lads do a war crime.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 8, 2021)

Every time i see it spelled carter rather than carta my head gets that manics Kevin Carter song stuck in it


----------



## cupid_stunt (Jul 8, 2021)

Storm Fox said:


> *I don't understand why the FotL types believe the Magna Carter is the start and end of all laws. *(Not that it actually covers what they think it does) All laws that succeed the Magna Carter are signed by the Monarch of the day* so carry equal weight. If a law is superseded it's superseded, it's not like its a physical law were it just is e.g. Gravitational Constant G .
> But it's a human construct so can change with the times by humans
> 
> *Apart from the Civil War years



They are loons, that's all you need to know.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 8, 2021)

This is this rubbish, isn't it?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 8, 2021)

Storm Fox said:


> I don't understand why the FotL types believe the Magna Carter is the start and end of all laws.



I think it's largely that it's very old and written in quite arcane language which lets them feel like they've got access to some ancient mystical truth. 

Also they're idiots.


----------



## Doodler (Jul 8, 2021)

Along with genuine financial difficulties Freeman of the Land stuff might also reflect a more generalised disenchantment with modern life with a hefty dose of escapist fantasy thrown in. Be interesting to know if its believers and enthusiasts also tend to be fans of male-oriented Bernard Cornwell-type historical fiction.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jul 8, 2021)

They seem to be conspiracy theorists too.  Gullible, in other words.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 8, 2021)

The Freemen on the Land are crackers like the TV programme Crackerjack but they are right that we need rid of the monarch and a new Magna Carta


----------



## Idaho (Jul 8, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> This is this rubbish, isn't it?
> View attachment 277490


I'm not sure what other baggage is intended to go with that, but on the face of it, I agree.

The drug laws, for example, take away the sovereignty I have over my body. They say that the state owns me and controls not only what I do, but the inside of my body.


----------



## MickiQ (Jul 8, 2021)

I think the pandemic has driven home to a lot of people in this country a fairly basic truth that we haven't had to face for a while and this is just how little control we actually have over our own lives. It's easy to criticise these people but they may very well have spent years put everything they own into their businesses  and building them up. Along comes the pandemic and the council comes round and tells them 'Sorry you have to close, you're not an essential business so you need to risk financial ruin but it's for the common good'. It doesn't surprise me that people in these sort of circumstances will turn to conspiracy theories especially if it appears to offer a way to not have to close and buck the system even if it's the sort of thing they might reject as daft in better times.


----------



## Johnny Doe (Jul 8, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> I think the pandemic has driven home to a lot of people in this country a fairly basic truth that we haven't had to face for a while and this is just how little control we actually have over our own lives. It's easy to criticise these people but they may very well have spent years put everything they own into their businesses  and building them up. Along comes the pandemic and the council comes round and tells them 'Sorry you have to close, you're not an essential business so you need to risk financial ruin but it's for the common good'. It doesn't surprise me that people in these sort of circumstances will turn to conspiracy theories especially if it appears to offer a way to not have to close and buck the system even if it's the sort of thing they might reject as daft in better times.


Or in the case of Rampling, no-one's interested anymore, so he's whipping up engagement through polarised bS


----------



## NoXion (Jul 8, 2021)

Doodler said:


> Along with genuine financial difficulties Freeman of the Land stuff might also reflect a more generalised disenchantment with modern life with a hefty dose of escapist fantasy thrown in. Be interesting to know if its believers and enthusiasts also tend to be fans of male-oriented Bernard Cornwell-type historical fiction.



If I want escapism, I'll spend a few hours shooting up a whole bunch of demons on my computer. I don't start believing that the law doesn't apply to me any more because I just now decided to be an extra-special snowflake and recite some arcane-sounding bullshit (that has never been shown to work, ever). These people are sufficiently switched-on enough to be capable of running a business for at least a little while, so I have a hard time believing that escapism is part of their dysfunction. I mean seriously, there are many more less painful ways of throwing away £42,000.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Jul 8, 2021)

SpookyFrank said:


> Every time our brave lads do a war crime.


Fuck off Frank you plank.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 8, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> Fuck off Frank you plank.


Language Sas. My right wing mother banned me from saying CUNT but she can't hold me back now and I yell it at her in our daily Zoom conference


----------



## JimW (Jul 8, 2021)

The Magner Carter guarantees horse-drawn cider deliveries for all.


----------



## Argonia (Jul 8, 2021)

JimW said:


> The Magner Carter guarantees horse-drawn cider deliveries for all.


My punk band the Cervical Smears had a song called Cider but we fucked up the recording at Trinity Studios in Knaphill and it was all out of sync


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 8, 2021)

JimW said:


> The Magner Carter guarantees horse-drawn cider deliveries for all.



That's what the loons think, but actually only Barons and men with three acres and a cow get cider.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jul 8, 2021)

Sasaferrato said:


> Fuck off Frank you plank.



Another whinging little snowflake who can't take a joke. Typical of young people today.


----------



## Doodler (Jul 8, 2021)

JimW said:


> The Magner Carter guarantees horse-drawn cider deliveries for all.



Magner's not Carter. Only . . .


----------



## Argonia (Jul 8, 2021)

Doodler said:


> Magner's not Carter. Only . . .
> View attachment 277501


My Caine impression is crap. My Connery is better.


----------



## Doodler (Jul 8, 2021)

Argonia said:


> My Caine impression is crap. My Connery is better.


I think. My Caine. Impression. Might be better. Than. My Connery.


----------



## Idaho (Jul 8, 2021)

Doodler said:


> I think. My Caine. Impression. Might be better. Than. My Connery.


If you shay show.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 9, 2021)

I used to go in the Finla cafe. I used to take my daughter to sing and sign (baby macaton) in Plympton and the teacher recommended the cafe. It was ok but overpriced and occasionally had the feeling they would of preferred serving the food on a slate. Became reasonably friendly with them particularly the bloke as someone rented a room for another kids club upstairs and they took their little girl too. The staff could be a bit rude but given their employers made them work in a cafe full of anti-vax twats and associated tossers (they were coming hundreds of miles in some cases to show their support) during a pandemic who knows what else they had to put up with.

I sent an email after one of their posts or videos correcting a few misconceptions in a friendly tone but they never replied.


----------



## kenny g (Jul 10, 2021)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, there's more about the Plymouth cafe in this report, including the threat of prison time.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


District judges ( formerly stipendery magistrates) can be one of the most hardcore judges you will meet. They sit alone, have no jury as it is at the mags and can impose unlimited fines in many cases. Most of the cases are chicken shit but important to those concerned. When something interesting comes up the gloves can come off... I reckon the cafe is fucked.


----------



## CNT36 (Jul 10, 2021)

kenny g said:


> District judges ( formerly stipendery magistrates) can be one of the most hardcore judges you will meet. They sit alone, have no jury as it is at the mags and can impose unlimited fines in many cases. Most of the cases are chicken shit but important to those concerned. When something interesting comes up the gloves can come off... I reckon the cafe is fucked.


A relative was friends with one. One of the vilest human beings I have had the misfortune to meet.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jul 11, 2021)

Have we seen this video from Ireland? Could go into the anti-vaxx thread too.










						Byelection candidate Dolores Cahill refused admission to count centre
					

Dublin Bay South by-election candidate Dolores Cahill was refused entry to the count centre after she refused to wear a mask.  Video: Enda O'Dowd




					www.irishtimes.com


----------



## scalyboy (Sep 6, 2021)

Several US 'Sovereign Citizen' loons testing judges and others' patience

David Hall: "Today I am appearing as the agent and settler for David Hall"
Judge: "OK, could you get Mr Hall for me, sir? Where is he?"
David Hall: " I go by that name, sir, my name sounds exactly like that of the defendant"


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 6, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> Several US 'Sovereign Citizen' loons testing judges and others' patience
> 
> David Hall: "Today I am appearing as the agent and settler for David Hall"
> Judge: "OK, could you get Mr Hall for me, sir? Where is he?"
> David Hall: " I go by that name, sir, my name sounds exactly like that of the defendant"



I liked these two, that went -

Judge, 'you will be remaining in custody', freeman loon, 'I am not the person, David Hall', Judge, 'well if you see that person, tell him he's also remaining in custody'. 

Freeman loon, 'show me your jurisdiction', Judge, 'there's an easy way to prove my jurisdiction, deputy please take this person into custody', loon knocks over the podium, and gets an overnight stay.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 6, 2021)

You'd expect judges to become frustrated when they realize they have no jurisdiction over these people.

Apart from that one, obviously.


----------



## scalyboy (Sep 6, 2021)

I get the impression that these judges have dealt with other Freemen / Sovereign Citizens previously😂 
They didn’t seem surprised or phased by the defendants’ lunacies…


----------



## T & P (Sep 6, 2021)

Well if this twat gets a beating during his overnight stay, at least “the person David Hall” will be spared it, I guess… 

Do these thick cunts actually reckon they’re ever going to talk their way out of it in this manner? Or are they putting a show to become martyrs to the Freeman cause?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 6, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> I get the impression that these judges have dealt with other Freemen / Sovereign Citizens previously😂
> They didn’t seem surprised or phased by the defendants’ lunacies…


They do have a slight upper hand, due to their actual understanding of the law and how it works.


----------



## scalyboy (Sep 6, 2021)

.


----------



## scalyboy (Sep 6, 2021)

T & P said:


> Well if this twat gets a beating during his overnight stay, at least “the person David Hall” will be spared it, I guess…
> 
> Do these thick cunts actually reckon they’re ever going to talk their way out of it in this manner? Or are they putting a show to become martyrs to the Freeman cause?


Yes, it’s bizarre, because - as has been said before - is there any record of any FOTL anywhere ever who got a result in court by using this rubbish? And if not, why do they keep doing it? Maybe to be martyrs, or just to be annoying?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Sep 6, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> I get the impression that these judges have dealt with other Freemen / Sovereign Citizens previously😂
> They didn’t seem surprised or phased by the defendants’ lunacies…



I doubt it comes up often, so judges are unlikely to have dealt with them before, more likely just read about them in some legal magazine, and their 'in other news' comedy section at the back.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 6, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> Yes, it’s bizarre, because - as has been said before - is there any record of any FOTL anywhere ever who got a result in court by using this rubbish? And if not, why do they keep doing it? Maybe to be martyrs, or just to be annoying?



They do like to claim adjournments and the like as victories. Basically any time they leave court and the fine hasn't actually been paid.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Sep 6, 2021)

scalyboy said:


> Yes, it’s bizarre, because - as has been said before - is there any record of any FOTL anywhere ever who got a result in court by using this rubbish? And if not, why do they keep doing it? Maybe to be martyrs, or just to be annoying?


The mains reason they keep doing it is because they are monumentally stupid.


----------



## Wilf (Sep 6, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


> Have we seen this video from Ireland? Could go into the anti-vaxx thread too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


She's a Professor of biology, with research that includes proteins and antibodies, which is... _worrying_.


			https://people.ucd.ie/dolores.cahill


----------



## kenny g (Sep 7, 2021)

Have seen a District Judge have immense fun with one of these in the Mags.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 7, 2021)

kenny g said:


> District judges ( formerly stipendery magistrates) can be one of the most hardcore judges you will meet. They sit alone, have no jury as it is at the mags and can impose unlimited fines in many cases. Most of the cases are chicken shit but important to those concerned. When something interesting comes up the gloves can come off... I reckon the cafe is fucked.


Sometimes a DJ really can save your life, as previously I have mentioned...


----------



## kenny g (Sep 7, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Sometimes a DJ really can save your life, as previously I have mentioned...


The links don't work...


----------



## DaveCinzano (Sep 7, 2021)

kenny g said:


> The links don't work...


Apples & fixed 👍


----------



## kenny g (Sep 9, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Apples & fixed 👍


Thanks. Not as dramatic but worth a read for another DJ decision on a case that shouldn't have ended up in Court. Farmer shouted 'f*** off you s**g' to hunt supporter on his land


----------



## Johnny Doe (Sep 9, 2021)

Argonia said:


> My Caine impression is crap. My Connery is better.


What time does Sean Connery go to Wimbledon?


----------



## Part 2 (Sep 9, 2021)

Seems the right thread for this


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 9, 2021)

Harry Smiles said:


> What time does Sean Connery go to Wimbledon?




About 10 o'clock?


----------



## Johnny Doe (Sep 9, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> About 10 o'clock?


Indeed, 'tennish'


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Sep 9, 2021)

kenny g said:


> Thanks. Not as dramatic but worth a read for another DJ decision on a case that shouldn't have ended up in Court. Farmer shouted 'f*** off you s**g' to hunt supporter on his land




Farmer / land owner doesn't want a hunt on his land, swears at a hunt supporter and ends in court. Fucking bonkers. The hunters should be done for aggravated trespass.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 11, 2021)

kenny g said:


> Thanks. Not as dramatic but worth a read for another DJ decision on a case that shouldn't have ended up in Court. Farmer shouted 'f*** off you s**g' to hunt supporter on his land



DJs are doing court cases now?

Guess it might have worked out more cost-effective than furlough tbf.

Spin, spin, spin the decks of Justice!


----------



## JimW (Sep 11, 2021)

Last night a DJ gave me life, with no parole.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 11, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Farmer / land owner doesn't want a hunt on his land, swears at a hunt supporter and ends in court. Fucking bonkers. The hunters should be done for aggravated trespass.


It gets worse. Here is more context to the prosecution....BTW Mr Chant crafts some fine cider if you are in the area. Considering what he has been through he was remarkably welcoming when we paid a visit to his farm unannounced a few weeks back when driving past. The cider was good too.








						Somerset farmer warns of 'civil war' over hunting
					

A FARMER who was hospitalised after an arson attack after he told hunters to get off his land has warned of a 'civil war' brewing in the countryside.




					www.somersetcountygazette.co.uk


----------



## planetgeli (Mar 19, 2022)

And they do it just as badly in Spain.









						Spanish driver who ate hash cakes claims diplomatic immunity from non-existent state
					

Man arrested after driving erratically fails to convince officers over ID from ‘Errant Republic of Menda Lerenda’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 19, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> And they do it just as badly in Spain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> “Once the vehicle had been intercepted, the officers asked the driver for his identity documents, to which he responded by showing a driving licence and ID card from the ‘Errant Republic of Menda Lerenda’,” the force said in a statement.
> 
> Although the “republic” bills itself online as “an individual and mobile sovereignty recognised by other states capable of acting with complete independence in strict compliance with international law”, the officers were not impressed by his documents or his claims of diplomatic immunity.
> 
> “The driver ignored repeated requests to show credible identification and began to show the officers a lack of respect,” the statement continued. “He claimed to have immunity on the grounds that he was a member of the sovereign diplomatic service of the aforementioned republic.”



Fucking loon.


----------



## dessiato (Mar 19, 2022)

I wanted a diplomatic passport from the Conch Republic. Some countries recognise them as “real” passports. Technically, since the republic did secede from the US before it surrendered in their war, it can still be argued, by some, that it is a state.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Mar 19, 2022)

Someone needs to tell them about the Principality of Sealand, I am sure some of the loons would spunk out £30 on an ID card.


----------



## deeyo (Mar 20, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Someone needs to tell them about the Principality of Sealand, I am sure some of the loons would spunk out £30 on an ID card.


maybe a liberty would do?


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 3, 2022)

The 'Angry Potato' is one of the main ant-vaxxers and freeman on the land loons, and here he is making a twat of himself & getting a parking tickets, totally brainless.  



WE HAVE TO TAKE BACK CONTROL!!11!!



I don't get why some of the loons still believe this shit, they lose every time they end up in court.


----------



## MickiQ (Apr 3, 2022)

What's with the Living Man thing are they now saying that the council can only issue tickets to dead people?


----------



## existentialist (Apr 3, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The 'Angry Potato' is one of the main ant-vaxxers and freeman on the land loons, and here he is making a twat of himself & getting a parking tickets, totally brainless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Because nothing which doesn't fit their preconceived notions - including reality - gets into their "thought" processes.

And that parking warden did exactly the right thing in not engaging with the twat.


----------



## MickiQ (Apr 3, 2022)

existentialist said:


> Because nothing which doesn't fit their preconceived notions - including reality - gets into their "thought" processes.
> 
> And that parking warden did exactly the right thing in not engaging with the twat.


Traffic Wardens probably get more of these loonies than anyone, Plod can at least arrest them and slap the cuffs on.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 3, 2022)

Here's advice about your council tax being illegal.


----------



## LDC (Apr 3, 2022)

_Do you know what this is? A public road. Who know who owns it? The public.

 _


----------



## Storm Fox (Apr 3, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The 'Angry Potato' is one of the main ant-vaxxers and freeman on the land loons, and here he is making a twat of himself & getting a parking tickets, totally brainless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm sure if I parked across their drive or a street parking spot they considered their own they would soon complain.

These FotL-ers seem to like living in the past, what about turnpikes and privately owned roads they wouldn't have been 'travel' along them.


----------



## NoXion (Apr 3, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The 'Angry Potato' is one of the main ant-vaxxers and freeman on the land loons, and here he is making a twat of himself & getting a parking tickets, totally brainless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Who the fuck are "[them]/[they]"? It's an affectation that's suspiciously close to the anti-Semitic (((they))).


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 3, 2022)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Farmer / land owner doesn't want a hunt on his land, swears at a hunt supporter and ends in court. Fucking bonkers. The hunters should be done for aggravated trespass.



So, irrespective of the circumstances, shouting 'Fuck off you slag' at a woman is acceptable? No, it really isn't.

' including a woman, *who was sat in her car with her child* and said 'f*** off you s**g' leaving her feeling alarmed and distressed."

What an utterly charming gentleman.


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 3, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Who the fuck are "[them]/[they]"? It's an affectation that's suspiciously close to the anti-Semitic (((they))).


They don't believe in registered birth names as valid.


----------



## editor (Apr 3, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Who the fuck are "[them]/[they]"? It's an affectation that's suspiciously close to the anti-Semitic (((they))).


The woman handled that fucking idiotic babbling loonslug very well, I thought.


----------



## spitfire (Apr 3, 2022)

editor said:


> The woman handled that fucking idiotic babbling loonslug very well, I thought.



The look she gives him just before handing the ticket over is priceless.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 4, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The 'Angry Potato' is one of the main ant-vaxxers and freeman on the land loons, and here he is making a twat of himself & getting a parking tickets, totally brainless.



The 'Angry Potato' is getting angry with pilots and shaking his fist at the sky now.





I think this could be something to do with chemtrails, but it's not exactly very clear.


----------



## NoXion (Apr 4, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The 'Angry Potato' is getting angry with pilots and shaking his fist at the sky now.
> 
> View attachment 317017
> 
> ...



Looks pretty obvious to me that this dickhead is encouraging other slack-brained fuckwits to start harassing pilots because he doesn't understand how weather works. Is that legally actionable? I'd love to see this idiot dragged out and forced to watch educational videos about meteorology and the hydrological cycle, Clockwork Orange-style.


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 4, 2022)

Aww, chemtrails, that's old school fuckwittery.


----------



## Serge Forward (Apr 4, 2022)

I believe it's called weather. Damn you, weather


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 4, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Looks pretty obvious to me that this dickhead is encouraging other slack-brained fuckwits to start harassing pilots because he doesn't understand how weather works. Is that legally actionable? I'd love to see this idiot dragged out and forced to watch educational videos about meteorology and the hydrological cycle, Clockwork Orange-style.



I am not sure it's about the weather TBH, he refers to 'killer pilots', grey clouds & rain don't tend to kill*, so I am fairly sure it's chemtrails, or maybe he thinks they are creating clouds out of covid vaccines, fuck knows. 🤷‍♂️

* except in extreme weather events.


----------



## LDC (Apr 4, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> I believe it's called weather. Damn you, weather



A sentiment we can all identify with tbf.


----------



## NoXion (Apr 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Aww, chemtrails, that's old school fuckwittery.



I remember when chemtrails first started becoming a thing among loon circles. It's never really gone away since then, but back then it was just another one of a thousand weird things that tinfoilers believed in.

But now it seems that QAnon acts as an aggregator of every damn conspiracy theory on the planet. There were Grand Unified Conspiracy Theories before Q, but since then it's almost as if the conspiracy mindset has become a kind of new religious movement in itself. And they want to "save" the children so badly! 🤮



cupid_stunt said:


> I am not sure it's about the weather TBH, he refers to 'killer pilots', grey clouds & rain don't tend to kill*, so I am fairly sure it's chemtrails, or maybe he thinks they are creating clouds out of covid vaccines, fuck knows. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> * except in extreme weather events.



What he calls chemtrails, the rest of us call the weather.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 4, 2022)

He might be onto something


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 4, 2022)

Or he might be Bananas


----------



## nogojones (Apr 4, 2022)

planetgeli said:


> And they do it just as badly in Spain.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Fair play for trying.


----------



## nogojones (Apr 4, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The 'Angry Potato' is one of the main ant-vaxxers and freeman on the land loons, and here he is making a twat of himself & getting a parking tickets, totally brainless.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I find the emoji's give this much more gravitas that the normal FOTL statements.


----------



## 19force8 (Apr 4, 2022)

The woeful lack of ambition of these latter day "sovereign citizens / freemen on the land" compared with the early pioneers must surely be a sign of the terminal decline of the capitalist system:









						Thread by @egavactip on Thread Reader App
					

@egavactip: I made a post a few minutes ago about the ability of QAnon adherents to believe the most outrageous things. It amazes me but does not *surprise* me, because I've encountered this before. I want to...…




					threadreaderapp.com


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 4, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> View attachment 317017
> 
> View attachment 317019
> 
> I think this could be something to do with chemtrails...



More like chemicals.

This dude's clearly been taking too many.


----------



## gawkrodger (Apr 4, 2022)

this remains one of my favourite urban threads. Always great for a good chuckle


----------



## T & P (Apr 4, 2022)

These loons love the concept of contracts, don’t they? The one thing their entire belief system seems to gyrate around.

I remember crossing swords with one such individual on another forum who kept saying countries don’t exist. From a purely physical standpoint he was kind of right of course, but when I retorted that ‘contracts’ don’t really exist either, and were nothing more than pulp wood pressed into a thin substance known as paper with ink markings on it, he got very agitated


----------



## marty21 (Apr 4, 2022)

I once had a social housing tenant who insisted he was a Freeman and we weren't allowed to charge him rent or take action to recover the rent we shouldn't be charging him 🤔 . His beliefs didn't prevent him from claiming Housing Benefit to pay the "illegal rent". They did stop him from claiming other benefits, his dad supported him with a weekly allowance (I always suspected that the dad did this so he wouldn't come around to see him) .

I moved on to another patch but found it later that he was eventually evicted for rent arrears & went to live in a squat.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 4, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Traffic Wardens probably get more of these loonies than anyone, Plod can at least arrest them and slap the cuffs on.



Sigh yes yes we do. Whats more annoying is when they come up to you and want to ask you a Question. So you answer expecting to have to explain parking rules or give directions. You just end up in a barking conversation and waste 20 mins.
  have one loon has nearly 2 grand of parking fines with the bailiffs because he believes if he parks on a dead-end covered by double yellows lines but doesn't park on the double yellow lines we cant issue him a ticket


----------



## Storm Fox (Apr 4, 2022)

likesfish said:


> Sigh yes yes we do. Whats more annoying is when they come up to you and want to ask you a Question. So you answer expecting to have to explain parking rules or give directions. You just end up in a barking conversation and waste 20 mins.
> have one loon has nearly 2 grand of parking fines with the bailiffs because he believes if he parks on a dead-end covered by double yellows lines but doesn't park on the double yellow lines we cant issue him a ticket


I don't the see point of getting shouty at Traffic Wardens, especially the with the situtation the cockwomble in the video above is in (The FoLTer of course) he's parked on Double Yellows. Take the risk of parking on Double Yellows and own it when you are caught, or don't be a lazy fucker park somewhere legal and walk.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 4, 2022)

Apparently, I'm worse than the Gestapo the Nazis the Stasi (which at least was unique  ) etc etc because I point out to someone they are in a no stopping at any point place and could they please move. rather than just writing an instant ticket and shoving it in the post. Which IMHO is a shit thing to do even if legal 😲.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 6, 2022)

The 'Angry Potato' has got a speeding fine & sent it back.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 6, 2022)

Yeah, that'll _definitely_ work


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 6, 2022)

I'm going to do that with my tax bill


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I'm going to do that with my tax bill



Should work for at least council tax, according to this expert.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The 'Angry Potato' has got a speeding fine & sent it back.
> 
> View attachment 317391View attachment 317392



I would really like to see this fuckwit doing five years with hard labour.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Should work for at least council tax, according to this expert.



 Thick witted abysmally fails to describe the utter fucking stupidity demonstrated there.


----------



## Mumbles274 (Apr 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Thick witted abysmally fails to describe the utter fucking stupidity demonstrated there.


If anyone says to her "penny for your thoughts"... She should sell


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 6, 2022)

likesfish said:


> Apparently, I'm worse than the Gestapo the Nazis the Stasi (which at least was unique  ) etc etc because I point out to someone they are in a no stopping at any point place and could they please move. rather than just writing an instant ticket and shoving it in the post. Which IMHO is a shit thing to do even if legal 😲.



Well, the Stasi were over East Berlin like a rash issuing parking tickets.  In truth,. they should have been jailing Trabbies for masquerading as cars.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 6, 2022)

Mumbles274 said:


> If anyone says to her "penny for your thoughts"... She should sell


And they'd STILL be paying a penny more than those "thoughts" were worth...


----------



## likesfish (Apr 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Well, the Stasi were over East Berlin like a rash issuing parking tickets.  In truth,. they should have been jailing Trabbies for masquerading as cars.


You can get a ticket if you drive a trabant. 
Not in our database😂. 
 But that's punishment enough.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 6, 2022)

I suppose in Court they could fall back on the Catch 22 defence (can't find the quote, but from memory along the lines of): "What would happen if we all did that?" "Then I'd be pretty bloody silly to do anything different."


----------



## likesfish (Apr 6, 2022)

two sheds said:


> and


Some of


----------



## likesfish (Apr 6, 2022)

two sheds said:


> and


Some of


----------



## petee (Apr 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The 'Angry Potato' has got a speeding fine & sent it back.
> 
> View attachment 317391View attachment 317392



i want to see the follow-up to this.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 6, 2022)

petee said:


> i want to see the follow-up to this.



He will probably end up in court, where reality will finally hit him full on in the face.

Just like it always does in these 'Freeman on the Land' cases, they never win, and you would think they would know that, clearly not very good at doing their own research. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## NoXion (Apr 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> He will probably end up in court, where reality will finally hit him full on in the face.
> 
> Just like it always does in these 'Freeman on the Land' cases, they never win, and you would think they would know that, clearly not very good at doing their own research. 🤷‍♂️



I wonder how many times the average FOTLer is slapped down in the courts? I get that this kind of stuff is spread about to take advantage of the desperate, but I don't get how anyone can continue cleaving to that kind of bullshit after the first one or two times that they get royally fisted by the long arm of the law. This kind of shit has _never_ stood up in court, and it boggles my mind that there are significant numbers of people looking at this stuff who can't think to ask for truly successful examples of FOTLer nonsense . At best they might cause a bit of confusion and maybe delay things a little, but I think even that minor and dubious benefit is becoming less effective, as the law courts gain an increasing familiarity with the FOTLers' cargo-cult misunderstanding of how the legal process works.

If getting out of paying taxes was as easy as buying some documents online and declaring yourself a sovereign citizen or whatever, then it would already be common knowledge, or at the very least you would be able to hire professionals who would give such advice. These people act like the state is some kind of computer game which lets you do anything you want if you enter the right cheat codes.


----------



## existentialist (Apr 6, 2022)

NoXion said:


> I wonder how many times the average FOTLer is slapped down in the courts? I get that this kind of stuff is spread about to take advantage of the desperate, but I don't get how anyone can continue cleaving to that kind of bullshit after the first one or two times that they get royally fisted by the long arm of the law. This kind of shit has _never_ stood up in court, and it boggles my mind that there are significant numbers of people looking at this stuff who can't think to ask for truly successful examples of FOTLer nonsense . At best they might cause a bit of confusion and maybe delay things a little, but I think even that minor and dubious benefit is becoming less effective, as the law courts gain an increasing familiarity with the FOTLers' cargo-cult misunderstanding of how the legal process works.
> 
> If getting out of paying taxes was as easy as buying some documents online and declaring yourself a sovereign citizen or whatever, then it would already be common knowledge, or at the very least you would be able to hire professionals who would give such advice. These people act like the state is some kind of computer game which lets you do anything you want if you enter the right cheat codes.


My guess is that most people who fall for this shit will try it on, and then quickly fold when they get the letter with all the capital letters and red ink. There will be a small minority who will make a big thing about it, and take it to the nth degree, and of course we'll get to hear all about those people (think of those TV licence evaders who start giving it all the FOTL bullshit in court, for example).


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> He will probably end up in court, where reality will finally hit him full on in the face.
> 
> Just like it always does in these 'Freeman on the Land' cases, they never win, and you would think they would know that, clearly not very good at doing their own research. 🤷‍♂️



There should be 100% levy on those fuckwits, for wasting police and court time. So if  they would have got six months, they get a year.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 6, 2022)

We've found effective answer to most of these discussions and the perennial argument " I'm actually on private land" ; that can be a legit argument depending where you are.
If you think you are in the right let me issue you a ticket If I'm wrong I'll get a disaplinary. 
Almost always gets them to clear off.


----------



## T & P (Apr 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> The 'Angry Potato' has got a speeding fine & sent it back.
> 
> View attachment 317391View attachment 317392


Funny how he thinks no authority can fine him due to his not agreeing to any such terms in a contract, yet he threatens the local council with fines of his own if he receives any further correspondence


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 6, 2022)

T & P said:


> Funny how he thinks no authority can fine him due to his not agreeing to any such terms in a contract, yet he threatens the local council with fines of his own if he receives any further correspondence



Oh, it's better than the local council, it's not a parking fine, it's a speeding fine, he's threatening Avon & Somerset Police. 

The address is - _PO Box 213_. _Bristol_ BS20 1DR - A&SP's Speed Enforcement Unit.


----------



## A380 (Apr 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Should work for at least council tax, according to this expert.



I suppose it shows that, despite my best efforts, I  still haven't dealt with all of the  unconscious sexism I've picked up over my 54 years as I didn't realise there  could be women quite as loonspud as this, thinking drivel  at this level was a male preserve.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, it's better than the local council, it's not a parking fine, it's a speeding fine, he's threatening Avon & Somerset Police.
> 
> The address is - _PO Box 213_. _Bristol_ BS20 1DR - A&SP's Speed Enforcement Unit.


If your really really annoying your mountain of parking  fines will be passed to the bailiffs and if your car is anything over a few years old they aren't going to do much of anything. But the debt doesn't go away. 
Police fines you are challenging the state and you will Lose.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, it's better than the local council, it's not a parking fine, it's a speeding fine, he's threatening Avon & Somerset Police.
> 
> The address is - _PO Box 213_. _Bristol_ BS20 1DR - A&SP's Speed Enforcement Unit.


It’s not threatening anyone as he’s fairly likely to have already sorted this out online and paid the fine, the scrawling on the envelope is performative and won’t have been posted.


----------



## spitfire (Apr 6, 2022)

Dogsauce said:


> It’s not threatening anyone as he’s fairly likely to have already sorted this out online and paid the fine, the scrawling on the envelope is performative and won’t have been posted.



Oh ye of little faith. How can you doubt how committed this idiot is to his idiotic endeavours. 

(You’re probably right though)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 6, 2022)

Another fine example of these dickheads.



(Look at the full thread, multiple clips).


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 6, 2022)

Dogsauce said:


> It’s not threatening anyone as he’s fairly likely to have already sorted this out online and paid the fine, the scrawling on the envelope is performative and won’t have been posted.





spitfire said:


> Oh ye of little faith. How can you doubt how committed this idiot is to his idiotic endeavours.
> 
> (You’re probably right though)



I doubt it, he's a total loon, see the video in this post, he could have moved his car, but nope, he invited a parking ticket, he actually believes this 'Freeman on the Land' shit. .


----------



## petee (Apr 6, 2022)

A380 said:


> I suppose it shows that, despite my best efforts, I  still haven't dealt with all of the  unconscious sexism I've picked up over my 54 years as I didn't realise there  could be women quite as loonspud as this, thinking drivel  at this level was a male preserve.



well, you never met my mother.
which is to say i was raised with it and although i continue to be gobsmacked by it, i'm not surprised.


----------



## A380 (Apr 6, 2022)

likesfish said:


> ... you are challenging the state and you will Lose.


Park my car with no thought for no one.
I fought likesfish
And likesfish won...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Another fine example of these dickheads.
> 
> 
> 
> (Look at the full thread, multiple clips).




Fucking hell, he's filmed himself committing common assault and put it online, what a top class twat.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 6, 2022)

A380 said:


> I suppose it shows that, despite my best efforts, I  still haven't dealt with all of the  unconscious sexism I've picked up over my 54 years as I didn't realise there  could be women quite as loonspud as this, thinking drivel  at this level was a male preserve.




Did you never meet Sinead? Hairdresser who refused to shut shop hit with £27k fines and summoned to court


----------



## Mumbles274 (Apr 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Another fine example of these dickheads.
> 
> 
> 
> (Look at the full thread, multiple clips).



Fucking cunt

But "I am a public" cracked me up... Then prattle on about being a private man... Make ya mind up dickhead. What's hooible about it though is that poor guy was probably scared he was going to get assaulted


----------



## Mumbles274 (Apr 6, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Fucking hell, he's filmed himself committing common assault and put it online, what a top class twat.


Oh did he? Not got that far yet


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Another fine example of these dickheads.
> 
> 
> 
> (Look at the full thread, multiple clips).





If that man had said, "What, my legal name?" I'd have married him and had his babies!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 6, 2022)

This 'Freeman on the Land' shit is all wrapped-up in QAnon, David fucking Icke, etc., and it can be deadly.



> The owner of a Christian surf school in California who has admitted to killing his two young children because he believed they’d inherited serpent DNA from their mother told the FBI he was radicalized by the former BBC sports presenter-turned-conspiracy theorist David Icke.
> 
> Matthew Coleman, 40, told FBI agents last August that in the days before he killed his children, he’d been having visions and seeing signs that revealed to him that his wife, Abby, “possessed serpent DNA” and was potentially a “shape-shifter.”
> 
> Coleman said he believed his wife had passed the reptilian DNA on to his children—2-year-old Kaleo and 10-month-old Roxy—and that his children now possessed “corrupted DNA” that would spread if something wasn’t done about it, according to a new court filing reviewed by VICE News.











						QAnon Surfer Who Killed His Kids Was Radicalized by Lizard People Conspiracies
					

Matthew Coleman told an FBI agent he first learned about “lizard people” from the Twitter account of British conspiracy theorist David Icke.




					www.vice.com


----------



## Dystopiary (Apr 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Another fine example of these dickheads.
> 
> 
> 
> (Look at the full thread, multiple clips).



That made me so angry, I think it was the third clip where he actually has the gall to shout "R**E" - horrible little bastard.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 6, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> That made me so angry, I think it was the third clip where he actually has the gall to shout "R**E" - horrible little bastard.


Yep. But “these people are all utter cunts” isn’t exactly news…


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 6, 2022)

I must say, I have huge admiration for the warden. Even at my advanced age, I would have decked him.  That was the most extreme of provocation.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 6, 2022)

I've had similar conversations. 
Its an utter waste of time and effort. Just move your car


----------



## Dystopiary (Apr 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> I must say, I have huge admiration for the warden. Even at my advanced age, I would have decked him.  That was the most extreme of provocation.


Felt really sorry for that guy. It can't be the most fun job to do at the best of times. That conspiracy theorist was a total bully, he seemed to be getting nastier the less notice the warden took of him, which is so often the case with those dickheads.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 6, 2022)

Twat should be charged with Behaviour Liable to Cause a Punch in the Mouth.


----------



## Dogsauce (Apr 6, 2022)

He just needs to be hung from a tree by his underpants whilst continuing to babble about his ‘rights’. Limbs flailing but immobilised like an upturned turtle.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 6, 2022)

Send the fuckers to St Kilda completely unsupported, other than what they bring with them. They'd be eating each other by Christmas.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 6, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> Send the fuckers to St Kilda completely unsupported, other than what they bring with them. They'd be eating each other by Christmas.


Gruinard nice at this time of year


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Gruinard nice at this time of year


wot, this Gruinard?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Apr 6, 2022)

belboid said:


> wot, this Gruinard?


That's not _Gruinard_, that's BCB


----------



## belboid (Apr 6, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> That's not _Gruinard_, that's BCB


british caledonian belgium?


----------



## pogofish (Apr 7, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> This 'Freeman on the Land' shit is all wrapped-up in QAnon, David fucking Icke, etc., and it can be deadly.



It goes back further than that - Freeman shit has been going about for maybe as far as twenty years back.  Although the near pathological self-obsession of the Trump/Q-era may well have refined it somewhat as well as greatly increasing their profile. Icke always seemed to be surfing along on whatever bollocks he thought might pay best to me.

Aspects of the "Sovereign Citizen" shit go back further - I can remember a certain type of "new society" hippy talking much the same guff back in the 1970s but most people with any sense just gave them a wide berth and left them to it.


----------



## two sheds (Apr 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> british caledonian belgium?


i was assuming grauniad


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 7, 2022)

No "Freeman" has ever won a case. It's all theatre. They depend on the lie to keep going, tragically it's all they have in their lives.


----------



## petee (Apr 7, 2022)

pogofish said:


> It goes back further than that - Freeman shit has been going about for maybe as far as twenty years back.  Although the near pathological self-obsession of the Trump/Q-era may well have refined it somewhat as well as greatly increasing their profile. Icke always seemed to be surfing along on whatever bollocks he thought might pay best to me.
> 
> Aspects of the "Sovereign Citizen" shit go back further - I can remember a certain type of "new society" hippy talking much the same guff back in the 1970s but most people with any sense just gave them a wide berth and left them to it.


here in the states, a direct predecessor 





__





						Posse Comitatus (organization) - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 7, 2022)

pogofish said:


> It goes back further than that - Freeman shit has been going about for maybe as far as twenty years back.  Although the near pathological self-obsession of the Trump/Q-era may well have refined it somewhat as well as greatly increasing their profile. Icke always seemed to be surfing along on whatever bollocks he thought might pay best to me.
> 
> Aspects of the "Sovereign Citizen" shit go back further - I can remember a certain type of "new society" hippy talking much the same guff back in the 1970s but most people with any sense just gave them a wide berth and left them to it.



Oh, I know FOTL has been around longer, but all this conspiracy stuff - FOTL, Icke types, QAnon, covid deniers, anti-vax loons, etc. - has a lot of overlap, thanks to it spreading online, and certainly it has got a lot worst since covid arrived.

I guess once you disappear down one rabbit hole, you end up in the warren/sewer where all the different conspiraloons resides.


----------



## NoXion (Apr 7, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Oh, I know FOTL has been around longer, but all this conspiracy stuff - FOTL, Icke types, QAnon, covid deniers, anti-vax loons, etc. - has a lot of overlap, thanks to it spreading online, and certainly it has got a lot worst since covid arrived.
> 
> I guess once you disappear down one rabbit hole, you end up in the warren/sewer where all the different conspiraloons resides.



This phenomenon is generally known as crank magnetism. It's been observed for a while, but QAnon has made it much more prevalent.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 7, 2022)

*Crank magnetism* - what a brilliant term.


----------



## Voley (Apr 7, 2022)

"Crank magnetism is an important stepping stone on the path towards being wrong all of the time."


----------



## two sheds (Apr 7, 2022)

*Fractal wrongness* is the state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution.





__





						Fractal wrongness
					

Fractal wrongness is the state of being wrong at every conceivable scale of resolution. That is, from a distance, a fractally wrong person's worldview is incorrect; and furthermore, if you zoom in on any small part of that person's worldview, that part is just as wrong as the whole worldview.




					rationalwiki.org


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> wot, this Gruinard?


Yup


----------



## Serge Forward (Apr 7, 2022)

NoXion said:


> This phenomenon is generally known as crank magnetism. It's been observed for a while, but QAnon has made it much more prevalent.


On the subject of crank magnetism, I was rather taken with this musical delight. It's a bit long but the music is great, and the lyrics are spot on. It's a while though before it gets to the words, so bear with the lengthy musical intro.


----------



## A380 (Apr 7, 2022)

NoXion said:


> This phenomenon is generally known as crank magnetism. It's been observed for a while, but QAnon has made it much more prevalent.


Interesting link thanks. pity it was written by a patsy of the moon lizards


----------



## Voley (Apr 7, 2022)

A380 said:


> Interesting link thanks. pity it was written by a patsy of the moon lizards


Read that as 'pasty' at first, not gonna lie.


----------



## pogofish (Apr 7, 2022)

petee said:


> here in the states, a direct predecessor
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Interesting - These guys also tended to be at the "Christian" end of the counterculture and yes, despite their outward claim to socialism, a lot of their ideas and worldview was rather what I'd later come to understand as far-too far-right.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 7, 2022)

pogofish said:


> Interesting - These guys also tended to be at the "Christian" end of the counterculture and yes, despite their outward claim to socialism, a lot of their ideas and worldview was rather what I'd later come to understand as far-too far-right.


sure christians can be on the far right, no reason why they can't, and just being in a counter-culture does not make you progressive


----------



## pogofish (Apr 7, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> sure christians can be on the far right, no reason why they can't, and just being in a counter-culture does not make you progressive



They liked to paint themselves as progressive though - i suppose part of it might have been that they had found a "movement" with wide enough toleration to put-up with them?


----------



## two sheds (Apr 7, 2022)

NoXion said:


> This phenomenon is generally known as crank magnetism. It's been observed for a while, but QAnon has made it much more prevalent.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 7, 2022)

two sheds said:


> View attachment 317506


Didn't think coins contained ferrous metals as a rule


----------



## Spymaster (Apr 7, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Didn't think coins contained ferrous metals as a rule



5p and 10p pieces do.

Get your magnet out!


----------



## two sheds (Apr 7, 2022)

we've pretty well all been vaccinated just see if they stick


----------



## existentialist (Apr 7, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Didn't think coins contained ferrous metals as a rule


Crank magnetism transcends such mundane physical realities


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> 5p and 10p pieces do.
> 
> Get your magnet out!


Once again you wait to see what tack I take and go the opposite way


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 7, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> sure christians can be on the far right, no reason why they can't, and just being in a counter-culture does not make you progressive


I would imagine that the ultra-right has the 'Christians', the atheists will go to the ultra-left.

Faux Christianity seems to be a cornerstone of right wing lunatics.


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 7, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Didn't think coins contained ferrous metals as a rule


Some do. I have a strip of magnetic sticky tape across the front of my monitor stand, with coins adhering. One of them is a bi-metallic Mexican peso.


----------



## Voley (Apr 7, 2022)

A novel take here:


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 7, 2022)

Voley said:


> A novel take here:




I think graphene hydroxide would be a carbohydrate?  C+O+H


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 7, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> I think graphene hydroxide would be a carbohydrate?  C+O+H


I actually bothered to read up a bit on graphene oxide a while back - there is Graphene oxide and REDUCED graphene oxide ... there are explorations relating to use as a biomedical substrate, but the notable application they mentioned is as a lightweight concrete reinforcer ...

The basic benefit of oxidation is to switch it from hydrophobic to hydrophilic ..


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 7, 2022)

Incidentally my PalTalk Washington-DC antivaxxer is going down the rabbithole again and has added two photos relating to this load of bollocks that no way has SHE "researched" - the contortions you have to do when "following the science"  are amazing ...

mRNA vaccines do not carry graphene in their lipid nanoparticles ...


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 7, 2022)

So I replaced the redacted / polite mention in my profile and took the gloves off again..
She had tidied her profile up and I had thought she was genuinely looking for help - but our recent PMs where I focussed on gardening and salad and even potatoes in Peru - her ethnicity -  always degenerated into " a shame you're vaxxed" (sic) and me blocking her again ... a shame as I had yet to get around to the resurgence in the Peruvian guano industry ...


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 7, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> I actually bothered to read up a bit on graphene oxide a while back - there is Graphene oxide and REDUCED graphene oxide ... there are explorations relating to use as a biomedical substrate, but the notable application they mentioned is as a lightweight concrete reinforcer ...
> 
> View attachment 317536


So graphene mimics benzine in structure, with a C6 ring?


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 7, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> So graphene mimics benzine in structure, with a C6 ring?


I don't know - organic chemistry makes my branes hurt 
I deffo don't understand how you can really make a super-strong substance with graphite and Sellotape. 
Outside of antivax conspiracies it seems to be the latest rip-off crowd-funder thing - they were selling resistive electric heaters "using graphene technology" a while back...

Fun fact - still to be verified - a graphite mine in Cumbria was once key to British Military success due to its use to cast smoother cannonballs


----------



## nogojones (Apr 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I'm going to do that with my tax bill


You'll have to add another bullet point to the envelope to make it watertight. Something like

My legal entity currently resides offshore (and unmoored)​


----------



## nogojones (Apr 7, 2022)

Voley said:


> Read that as 'pasty' at first, not gonna lie.


You're all the same down there. One track minds in Kernow. It makes the ruling lizard overlords job so much easier


----------



## nogojones (Apr 7, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> I would imagine that the ultra-right has the 'Christians', the atheists will go to the ultra-left.
> 
> Faux Christianity seems to be a cornerstone of right wing lunatics.


It's not quite so binary. There's some lovely caring christians and some truly awful libertarian atheists.


----------



## Voley (Apr 7, 2022)

nogojones said:


> You're all the same down there. One track minds in Kernow. It makes the ruling lizard overlords job so much easier


"Pasty Of The Moon Lizards" sounds like the great album Hawkwind never quite got round to.

Would definitely give it a whirl, I reckon.


----------



## NoXion (Apr 7, 2022)

Sasaferrato said:


> I would imagine that the ultra-right has the 'Christians', the atheists will go to the ultra-left.
> 
> Faux Christianity seems to be a cornerstone of right wing lunatics.



Atheism seems to be pretty popular among right-wing libertarians, and I believe that noted skeptics such as Michael Shermer have professed right-libertarian beliefs.


----------



## nogojones (Apr 7, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> I actually bothered to read up a bit on graphene oxide a while back - there is Graphene oxide and REDUCED graphene oxide ... there are explorations relating to use as a biomedical substrate, but the notable application they mentioned is as a lightweight concrete reinforcer ...
> 
> View attachment 317536


The key question though is... Would jet fuel melt graphene oxide reinforced concrete?


----------



## Sasaferrato (Apr 7, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Atheism seems to be pretty popular among right-wing libertarians, and I believe that noted skeptics such as Michael Shermer have professed right-libertarian beliefs.



Oh. OK. I'm not really au fait with either camp.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 7, 2022)

nogojones said:


> You'll have to add another bullet point to the envelope to make it watertight. Something like
> 
> My legal entity currently resides offshore (and unmoored)​




"I am married to the Chancellor of the Exchequer" seems to work an'all.


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 7, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> So I replaced the redacted / polite mention in my profile and took the gloves off again..
> She had tidied her profile up and I had thought she was genuinely looking for help - but our recent PMs where I focussed on gardening and salad and even potatoes in Peru - her ethnicity -  always degenerated into " a shame you're vaxxed" (sic) and me blocking her again ... a shame as I had yet to get around to the resurgence in the Peruvian guano industry ...


Oh look she noticed -







__





						aquadiamond28's photos on Paltalk |  47, F
					

View aquadiamond28's photos on Paltalk.com.




					fr.paltalk.com


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 7, 2022)

Paltalk is a festering shithole ..
Only today in one of the _*better *_rooms, someone came out with "GMO Glyphosate (sic) kills water plants and starves fish of oxygen"

Knowing that glyphosate itself doesn't remain stable long enough to do that, I googled and was taken to a paper which claimed that the PHOSPHOROUS content of glyphosate was as significant as the phosphorus in fertilisers in terms of eutrophication of watercourses  - which sounded a bit iffy to me - there's only one phosphorous atom in a fairly heavy organic molecule ...

So nothing to do with its herbicide properties at all ...

So I looked a bit deeper and found one report that it was a terrible paper contrived from iffy data that got basic maths wrong by orders of magnitude.


----------



## Voley (Apr 7, 2022)

Fucking hell gentlegreen - that's proper nuts. I would've run screaming from that level of lunacy a long time ago.


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 7, 2022)

Voley said:


> Fucking hell gentlegreen - that's proper nuts. I would've run screaming from that level of lunacy a long time ago.


I think I'm there to force me to fact-check and increase my knowledge - and spur me to do other things ...

I found my way back on during 2020 and especially into the US election and subsequent insanity - wanting to see it through American eyes (there are some people on there who aren't demented ...

Sometimes I reason that if there's only crap being talked about on PT, I might as well do it in French, but the small number of French rooms are really hopeless ...

I've been on the Internet for nearly 30 years and PalTalk is the only chat environment of its kind ...


----------



## cupid_stunt (Apr 7, 2022)

Worthing has remained fairly loon-free, but I see in May's council elections, we have one standing in Central ward under the ticket of 'Freedom Alliance. Stop the Great Reset'.


----------



## likesfish (Apr 7, 2022)

apparently, we operate under Admiralty law so we cant  give out parking fines because the Royal  Navy cant oppress civilians.
 Think somebody has a really weird reading of British History 
 unfortunately my manager said we cant solve are staff shortage by press-ganging people or getting people drunk and slipping them a parking warden shilling


----------



## nogojones (Apr 7, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Oh look she noticed -
> 
> View attachment 317566
> 
> ...


She's missed that bit by the temporal lobe that focuses on toilet based sprouting gardens


----------



## nogojones (Apr 7, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Paltalk is a festering shithole ..
> Only today in one of the _*better *_rooms, someone came out with "GMO Glyphosate (sic) kills water plants and starves fish of oxygen"
> 
> Knowing that glyphosate itself doesn't remain stable long enough to do that, I googled and was taken to a paper which claimed that the PHOSPHOROUS content of glyphosate was as significant as the phosphorus in fertilisers in terms of eutrophication of watercourses  - which sounded a bit iffy to me - there's only one phosphorous atom in a fairly heavy organic molecule ...
> ...


I think there are some serious issues with glyphosate, but that's not really one of them. IIRC there seems to be growing links to it and certian types of lymphoma.


----------



## nogojones (Apr 7, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Worthing has remained fairly loon-free, but I see in May's council elections, we have one standing in Central ward under the ticket of 'Freedom Alliance. Stop the Great Reset'.


I'm reassured now that we can just vote the great reset away


----------



## nogojones (Apr 7, 2022)

likesfish said:


> apparently, we operate under Admiralty law so we cant  give out parking fines because the Royal  Navy cant oppress civilians.
> Think somebody has a really weird reading of British History
> unfortunately my manager said we cant solve are staff shortage by press-ganging people or getting people drunk and slipping them a parking warden shilling


Just tell them that you're a petty officer, but due to cutbacks there's currently not enough ships, so they give you this gig to keep your sea legs from withering away.


----------



## gentlegreen (Apr 7, 2022)

nogojones said:


> I think there are some serious issues with glyphosate, but that's not really one of them. IIRC there seems to be growing links to it and certian types of lymphoma.


Not that I know of .
The discredited cancer "study" that's still widely cited was a despicable con and involved cruelty to lab rats.









						Séralini affair - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




The most "popular" possible side effect is the notion that even minute ingested quantities interfere with gut flora - thence to "leakage" and thence to AUTISM !! - see also child vaccination and bleach enemas ...


----------



## Yuwipi Woman (Apr 7, 2022)

pogofish said:


> It goes back further than that - Freeman shit has been going about for maybe as far as twenty years back.  Although the near pathological self-obsession of the Trump/Q-era may well have refined it somewhat as well as greatly increasing their profile. Icke always seemed to be surfing along on whatever bollocks he thought might pay best to me.
> 
> Aspects of the "Sovereign Citizen" shit go back further - I can remember a certain type of "new society" hippy talking much the same guff back in the 1970s but most people with any sense just gave them a wide berth and left them to it.



I think it goes in cycles.  I remember running into these types at gun shows in the 80s.  They tend to form and reform alliances depending on the fad conspiracy at the time.  The ones I've run into recently were all into Grant Solar Minimum and Earth magnetic pole shift stuff, coupled with ideas that the government wants to decrease the population down to under a million world-wide.  I try to avoid them, but they tend to like a girls who wear cammo.


----------



## nogojones (Apr 7, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> How the hell did we get here ?
> 
> Not that I know of .
> The discredited cancer "study" that's still widely cited was a despicable con and involved cruelty to lab rats.
> ...


It's not something I particularly follow as I haven't used glyphosate in years, but I recall a few meta analysis thingy's being conducted that showed a correlation.  A very quick and lazy google pulled this up...









						Exposure to Glyphosate-Based Herbicides and Risk for Non-Hodgkin Lymphoma: A Meta-Analysis and Supporting Evidence
					

Glyphosate is the most widely used broad-spectrum systemic herbicide in the world. Recent evaluations of the carcinogenic potential of glyphosate-based herbicides (GBHs) by various regional, national, and international agencies have engendered controversy. ...




					www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov


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## gentlegreen (Apr 7, 2022)

That "How the hell did we get here ?" was intended for a different post BTW.


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## NoXion (Apr 7, 2022)

gentlegreen said:


> Not that I know of .
> The discredited cancer "study" that's still widely cited was a despicable con and involved cruelty to lab rats.
> 
> 
> ...



Ah leaky gut syndrome, that thing that was made up _disgraced ex-doctor_ Andrew Wakefield in his long-discredited paper of fakery.


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 7, 2022)

likesfish said:


> apparently, we operate under Admiralty law so we cant give out parking fines because the Royal Navy cant oppress civilians.



but are you allowed to declare them 'boat happy' and respond accordingly?


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 8, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> On the subject of crank magnetism, I was rather taken with this musical delight. It's a bit long but the music is great, and the lyrics are spot on. It's a while though before it gets to the words, so bear with the lengthy musical intro.



Cheers for posting that, I'm a big primus fan but hadn't come across that one

On a related note, Les Claypool is the best bassist of all time and I'll fight anyone who disagrees.


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## Pickman's model (Apr 8, 2022)

SpineyNorman said:


> Cheers for posting that, I'm a big primus fan but hadn't come across that one
> 
> On a related note, Les Claypool is the best bassist of all time and I'll fight anyone who disagrees.


noel redding for me. or john entwhistle


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## two sheds (Apr 8, 2022)




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## Serge Forward (Apr 8, 2022)

SpineyNorman said:


> Cheers for posting that, I'm a big primus fan but hadn't come across that one
> 
> On a related note, Les Claypool is the best bassist of all time and I'll fight anyone who disagrees.


He is very good, but I'm more a Larry Graham and Jaco Pastorius type, meself.


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## Serge Forward (Apr 8, 2022)

Ahh, I see two sheds has mentioned Jaco, so here's Larry (inventor of slap bass) Graham for yer.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 8, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> noel redding for me. or john entwhistle


Steve Harris.


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 8, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> noel redding for me. or john entwhistle


I'll let you off on that one, Entwhistle was a god among men!


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 8, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> Ahh, I see two sheds has mentioned Jaco, so here's Larry (inventor of slap bass) Graham for yer.



This is my favourite bit of Les


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## Mumbles274 (Apr 8, 2022)

Carol Kaye is the best. By a country mile


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## pogofish (Apr 8, 2022)

likesfish said:


> apparently, we operate under Admiralty law so we cant  give out parking fines because the Royal  Navy cant oppress civilians.
> Think somebody has a really weird reading of British History
> unfortunately my manager said we cant solve are staff shortage by press-ganging people or getting people drunk and slipping them a parking warden shilling



There is something about Railway Byelaws that gets a lot of people out of private parking tickets though - IIRC it all boils down to who can actually bring an action against the parker and how long they have to do so - and it is usually not the jokers who issued the ticket.


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## two sheds (Apr 8, 2022)

Mumbles274 said:


> Carol Kaye is the best. By a country mile


Back that up


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## Mumbles274 (Apr 8, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Back that up


Google her. She's a fucking legend


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## two sheds (Apr 8, 2022)

Mumbles274 said:


> Google her. She's a fucking legend


I have they all seem to be just talking about what a fucking legend she is


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## Mumbles274 (Apr 8, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I have they all seem to be just talking about what a fucking legend she is


It's because she is. Why are you angry?


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## two sheds (Apr 8, 2022)

wanted to listen to her playing 

but not really angry


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## Dystopiary (Apr 8, 2022)

Kim Deal 
Phil Lynott


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## Mumbles274 (Apr 8, 2022)

two sheds said:


> wanted to listen to her playing
> 
> but not really angry


You've heard her more times than you realise!


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## Mumbles274 (Apr 8, 2022)

Tina Weymouth rocks too


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## Mumbles274 (Apr 8, 2022)

And kim Gordon


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## likesfish (Apr 9, 2022)

pogofish said:


> There is something about Railway Byelaws that gets a lot of people out of private parking tickets though - IIRC it all boils down to who can actually bring an action against the parker and how long they have to do so - and it is usually not the jokers who issued the ticket.



Private parking enforcement is much more about revenue generation. 
  You employ a firm because some people take the piss but then they have to justify there existence so they ticket and when you give staff commission they will ticket enuthastically. 
 If I can get people to move Job done I'd rather somebody whose parked stupidly move rather than issue and have them leave their vehicle in place because they are throwing a strop.


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## petee (Apr 9, 2022)

John Wetton and Steve Hanley obv.
I'd mention Roy Estrada, but ...


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## deeyo (Apr 9, 2022)

SpineyNorman said:


> Cheers for posting that, I'm a big primus fan but hadn't come across that one
> 
> On a related note, Les Claypool is the best bassist of all time and I'll fight anyone who disagrees.


it's brand new. Serge Forward  is clearly itk, part of the avant-garde, has his ear to the ground & his fingers on the basspulse speakers









						Primus announce new Conspiranoid EP, share Origins of "Conspiranoia": Exclusive
					

Hear the Bay Area trio's new single a day early.




					consequence.net
				




 “_I watched the distrust and divide grow between friends, colleagues, relatives, and the general population because of the consumption and digesting of disinformation, misinformation, warped information, and flat-out fairy tales being perpetuated by anyone with a slight hint of web design aptitude._”



Spoiler: ... but claypool doesn't like fighting


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## Serge Forward (Apr 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> wanted to listen to her playing
> 
> but not really angry


Just listen to a random sounds of the 60s or 70s selection, and Carol Kaye will be on a hefty percentage of the tracks.


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 9, 2022)

La bamba


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## Serge Forward (Apr 9, 2022)

I think she played guitar on la bamba, her bass playing started in the 60s.


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 9, 2022)

Probably, I just copied it from the wiki page to make it look like I know what I'm on about lol


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## Serge Forward (Apr 9, 2022)

I think she did a lot of work with the Beach Boys, Phil Spector, the Monkees and countless others. She played bass on literally thousands of 60s and 70s hits.


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## teqniq (Apr 9, 2022)

Re: Carol Kaye, Watch the Wrecking Crew.

e2a









						The Wrecking Crew (music) - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Serge Forward (Apr 9, 2022)

Thanks for mentioning the Wrecking Crew teqniq. Really interesting and with some surprises.

I'm enjoying this... not so much a derailment but more an interlude


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## teqniq (Apr 9, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> Thanks for mentioning the Wrecking Crew teqniq. Really interesting and with some surprises.
> 
> I'm enjoying this... not so much a derailment but more an interlude


It's a brilliant documentary, not just for Carol Kaye either.


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 9, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> Thanks for mentioning the Wrecking Crew teqniq. Really interesting and with some surprises.
> 
> I'm enjoying this... not so much a derailment but more an interlude


I reckon we can get away with it on a thread like this  

Probably won't get into many people's top 10 and he's not a particularly fancy bassist but I reckon Cris Kirkwood of the meat puppets deserves a mention. His brother usually gets all the credit but for me Cris is where their sound came from.


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## Sasaferrato (Apr 9, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Steve Harris.


Jack Bruce.


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## Voley (Apr 9, 2022)

Peter Hook for me.


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## Sasaferrato (Apr 9, 2022)

likesfish said:


> Private parking enforcement is much more about revenue generation.
> You employ a firm because some people take the piss but then they have to justify there existence so they ticket and when you give staff commission they will ticket enuthastically.
> If I can get people to move Job done I'd rather somebody whose parked stupidly move rather than issue and have them leave their vehicle in place because they are throwing a strop.


On the odd occasion that a warden has advised me to move, I have thanked them and moved. Move and not get a ticket? Common sense. (Which in today's world isn't that common. ).


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## two sheds (Apr 9, 2022)

Voley said:


> Peter Hook for me.


Example? Interested to hear.


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 9, 2022)




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## Serge Forward (Apr 9, 2022)

Voley said:


> Peter Hook for me.


I'm sure he improved in later years, but the times I saw him at Warsaw/Joy Division gigs, he really didn't impress.


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 9, 2022)

Flea can play a bit too


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## two sheds (Apr 9, 2022)

Ta - I missed out on Joy Division

Tony Levin has to get a mention too - anyone who can play alongside Bruford and Fripp with any idea of what note they're going to play next and when  has my admiration


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## Voley (Apr 9, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Example? Interested to hear.


I love the low from-the-bowels-of-the-earth grumbling stuff he does in Joy Division like that clip above but I might even prefer it when he plays a bass like a lead guitar.

There are a few New Order songs where he's got the main melody. Unmistakable sound.


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## Voley (Apr 9, 2022)

Going to see him in a couple of weeks time. Current set is half an hour of early New Order stuff, both Joy Division albums in their entirety, encore. Really looking forward to it.


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## SpineyNorman (Apr 9, 2022)

Voley said:


> Going to see him in a couple of weeks time. Current set is half an hour of early New Order stuff, both Joy Division albums in their entirety, encore. Really looking forward to it.


Sounds great! Suffers really badly with back pain apparently (saw him talking about it in an interview recently) so that's even more impressive set length than it sounds! Let us know what it's like


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## [62] (Apr 13, 2022)

Mate of mine in Glastonbury saw this posted outside of a house around the corner from him. They also have a fucking Russian flag flying. I'm no lawyer, but this is jibber-jabber isn't it?


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## Storm Fox (Apr 13, 2022)

There is a website here. Universal Community Trust | Home
Which to me is a mish-mash of new-age woo and libertarian BS; plus an immediate 'House' on Conspiraloon bingo.



> We are bombarded with propaganda via mainstream media telling us unbelievable things are true, when we can see and know the opposite is in fact true.
> We have been fooled with covid-1984, where our human rights and freedoms have been stolen under the guise of the covid hoax.
> Criminally corrupt politicians have repeatedly voted in covid restrictions, despite overwhelming scientific evidence that these are completely unnecessary, and cause more harm and death than save lives.
> Politicians, corporations and the military are increasingly, and suspiciously, in cahoots, ushering in a controlled, surveilled, totalitarian future for ordinary people.
> ...


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## beesonthewhatnow (Apr 13, 2022)

[62] said:


> Mate of mine in Glastonbury saw this posted outside of a house around the corner from him. They also have a fucking Russian flag flying. I'm no lawyer, but this is jibber-jabber isn't it?
> 
> View attachment 318368


It’s a straight C&P from the loony internet, just with an official looking font.


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## kenny g (Apr 13, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It’s a straight C&P from the loony internet, just with an official looking font.


You can remove implied rights of access. I have done it and had acknowledgement from TV licensing so if they come off the pavement and onto my drive they are now trespassing. I did this when they sent one of their " we will visit" letters. Obviously if they get a warrant then they can get access using the rights provided by warrant. That poster is mainly twaddle - including the nonsense about constables. PACE entry powers are going to have a bit more force than that crap. Having said that you could remove implied rights from the police if you objected to them delivering leaflets or generally being community Bobby types as used to happen in the past.


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## [62] (Apr 13, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> It’s a straight C&P from the loony internet, just with an official looking font.



Fonts make all the difference. I chanced upon some racist academic bollocks online once from someone calling themselves the Centre for Historical Research or something equally ridiculous. A load of antisemitic shite with a laughably flawed premise even before you got to the thrust of their argument, but it was in Times New Roman 10 point and it had footnotes, so you could tell it was a properly researched and authoritative bit of writing, not the ramblings of a lonely crank.


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## rubbershoes (Apr 13, 2022)

[62] said:


> Mate of mine in Glastonbury saw this posted outside of a house around the corner from him. They also have a fucking Russian flag flying. I'm no lawyer, but this is jibber-jabber isn't it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's so they can say any letters from the court /HMRC etc have been illegally delivered and are therefore invalid.

 Bollocks from start to finish


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## likesfish (Apr 16, 2022)

this doesn't work unfortunately the muppet was legally parked so. Couldn't ticket him.


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## Storm Fox (Apr 16, 2022)

likesfish said:


> View attachment 318795this doesn't work unfortunately the muppet was legally parked so. Couldn't ticket him.


 It's definitely not going to work in public areas. Could the possibly work in a private car park? 
I assume not, but it may be interesting to go through court, if something similar hasn't before, as one private individual has terms similar to the terms the private parking companies put up on private land.


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## likesfish (Apr 16, 2022)

Tbf and not speaking for my corporate employers🙄. Private company's tend to make there own rules up. They get paid to enforce and then collect any fines they deliver


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## Puddy_Tat (Apr 16, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> It's definitely not going to work in public areas. Could the possibly work in a private car park?



i'm not a lawyer or anything resembling one, but not sure how far you would get parking somewhere the owner of the land has conditions for parking there and you claim you have your own conditions that over-ride them.


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## platinumsage (Apr 16, 2022)

Imagine getting on a train without a ticket and then showing the guard a notice like that and demanding £250 for being asked to show your ticket. Pretty sure the magistrate would find it amusing.


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## Storm Fox (Apr 16, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> i'm not a lawyer or anything resembling one, but not sure how far you would get parking somewhere the owner of the land has conditions for parking there and you claim you have your own conditions that over-ride them.


Yeah, I'm not going to try it, but I wondered if it more chance than normal. With normal being Zero.


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## pogofish (Apr 16, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> It's definitely not going to work in public areas. Could the possibly work in a private car park?
> I assume not, but it may be interesting to go through court, if something similar hasn't before, as one private individual has terms similar to the terms the private parking companies put up on private land.



I think that the private operator could reasonably (for once) argue that by choosing to park there, their equally fantastical T&Cs would take precedence. Still, the idea of a PPC and a FOTLer slugging it out in court is all-win as far as I'm concerned! 

About the only time I've seen something remotely like this work was in the private residential context, where a resident is able to remove PPC access to their space under the "Quiet Enjoyment" aspect of their lease - but it could only work where a designated parking space was included in the lease/tenancy agreement, not access to an unspecified space in a car park.


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## DaveCinzano (Apr 16, 2022)

[62] said:


> Mate of mine in Glastonbury saw this posted outside of a house around the corner from him. They also have a fucking Russian flag flying. I'm no lawyer, but this is jibber-jabber isn't it?
> 
> View attachment 318368


Dogshit through the letterbox


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## DaveCinzano (Apr 16, 2022)

likesfish said:


> View attachment 318795this doesn't work unfortunately the muppet was legally parked so. Couldn't ticket him.


Brick through the windscreen


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## DaveCinzano (Apr 16, 2022)

Sorted 🤷


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## Storm Fox (Apr 16, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Brick through the windscreen


As long as you wrap a note around the brick stating his windscreen prevented from exercising your rights to hurl bricks about and you are now fining them £250 for damage to the brick and another £500 for the windscreen infringing on your rights as laid out by Common Law Statute, you'll be fine. 😉


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 10, 2022)

Some quality fuckwittery here


----------



## cupid_stunt (May 10, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Some quality fuckwittery here




That is beautiful, proper comedy gold.


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## gentlegreen (May 10, 2022)

Prosecuted 4 times for aggravated burglary.

I wonder if the "Gas Safe engineer" will be liable for doing the illegal installation ?


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## petee (May 13, 2022)

from the states, pix in article

"Now, these sovereign citizens often make their grift look vaguely official, to make them more believable as a legal defense, but that often ends in boring fakeries that don’t quite look official or anything like the real thing. But some who ascribed to this fringe theory have brought a little flair to their fake (and very illegal) license plates"









						At Least Sovereign Citizens' Pretend License Plates Look Cool Now
					

If you're going to make a fake license plate to go with your fake driver's license, why make it bland?




					jalopnik.com
				




I can speak to one bit of it, there is in there what appears to be a misspelling of this, where I live









						Lenapehoking - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org
				




the other place names are Chicago and





						Nacotchtank - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------

