# BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff



## treelover (May 15, 2013)

> *A storm brewing*
> BrewDog certainly has a unique way of going about things. First there’s the provocative marketing which has gained the company substantial international coverage.
> 
> “We have a terminal addiction to make beers we want to drink. Beer with teeth and balls. Beer we lust for. Crafted beer,” the BrewDog website reads. “Experimentation is our Art. Revolution is our weapon. And revolutions aren’t made on formula. They just rip the t**s off convention.”
> ...


 
Seems to be a growing trend this 'rebel sell' type of marketing, this time its a brewery called Brewdog with beers named such as Punk IPA, I have no idea about its business practices and workers conditions, but it is so blantant, the niche it is using.


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## xenon (May 15, 2013)

Yeah well done on your unintended marketting their.  I'd never heard of them til now.


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## treelover (May 15, 2013)

> In 2009 Watt and Dickie effectively gambled the company’s future by launching the innovative “Equity for Punks” scheme and becoming a public limited company (PLC). Under the scheme shares in the company were sold online in a scheme fully authorised by the Financial Services Authority.
> 
> Beer lovers responded enthusiastically and more than 1,300 people invested in what BrewDog calls its “anti-business business model”, raising £700,000.


 
silly comment, they are already a large entitity


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## xenon (May 15, 2013)

And of course it's nothing new advertising co-opting language and culture to sell shit.


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## Metal Malcolm (May 15, 2013)

My housemate went to their pub and brought home a little pamphlet thing they'd given him. It was the most infuriating aspirational bollocks i'd ever read.

"You're original, not like everyone else, so don't drink the same drinks as them, drink ours, cause we're, like, punky and shit, yeah?"

Fuck 'em.


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## butchersapron (May 15, 2013)

xenon said:


> Yeah well done on your unintended marketting their. I'd never heard of them til now.


They got a pub on baldwin street. Really. Big thing.


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## Geri (May 15, 2013)

They have a pub in Bristol - my friend's husband went there and was charged £4 for a half. I don't think he stopped for another one!


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## souljacker (May 15, 2013)

Well, they have a terminal addiction to making beers they want to drink, so I wouldn't worry about it as they will all be dead soon.


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## xenon (May 15, 2013)

treelover said:


> silly comment, they are already a large entitity



Ha. It's so like, meta. Wankers.


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## treelover (May 15, 2013)

apparently a shareholders meeting


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## treelover (May 15, 2013)

xenon said:


> And of course it's nothing new advertising co-opting language and culture to sell shit.


 
eh, that's what I said, this is a board, you post about interesting issues, this is one..


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## Frances Lengel (May 15, 2013)

Punk IPA is quite nice, but I'd be embarrassed to buy it because of its ridiculous name (who wants to be associated with US prison catamites? Not me anyway) & the infuriating aspirational bollocks.


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## Paulie Tandoori (May 15, 2013)

anyone who drinks anything because of something they have read about it, rather than because of what it tastes like, is welcome to fuck off to another pub thank you very much.


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## butchersapron (May 15, 2013)

Geri said:


> They have a pub in Bristol - my friend's husband went there and was charged £4 for a half. I don't think he stopped for another one!


They sponsored craigs night at the stag and hounds.


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## Teaboy (May 15, 2013)

I think there is a brewdog pub near the quayside in Newcastle, seemed to be quite cheap if I remember correctly.  Then again every pub outside of London seems cheap to me.


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## editor (May 15, 2013)

This is what punk rock is all about!


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## treelover (May 15, 2013)

wonder if they use Workfare?


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## editor (May 15, 2013)

Not even slightly sexist! 'Edgy' my arse. This is just 1970s rubbish.


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## xenon (May 15, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> They got a pub on baldwin street. Really. Big thing.



So I see. 4 quid a half? Fuck that.


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## trabuquera (May 15, 2013)

xenon said:


> So I see. 4 quid a half? Fuck that.


 
"ever get the feeling you've been swindled???"


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## Fruitloop (May 15, 2013)

They've been around for ages. Fairly sure they're taking the absolute piss.

http://www.brewdog.com/blog-article/the-nanny-state

Nice beer though.


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## Louis MacNeice (May 15, 2013)

This is much nicer than Brew Dog, comes without the edgy rubbish and when it's on offer in Sainsburys is cheaper.






Cheers and botoms up - Louis MacNeice


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## Frances Lengel (May 15, 2013)

Louis MacNeice said:


> This is much nicer than Brew Dog, comes without the edgy rubbish and when it's on offer in Sainsburys is cheaper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
And it's got a cork - You can't whack beer bottles with corks in them.


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## Limerick Red (May 15, 2013)

was in the boozer the other night...place full of people who look like complete cunts...although didnt speak to anyone so they could have been very nice people...the beer was well fuckin lovely, and pretty much what ya would pay in any pub like that....they regularly have them as a guest ale in spoons as well. They had a barney with Diagio recently didnt they?


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## TruXta (May 15, 2013)

Meantime ain't exactly cheap either, but at least they don't do that fuckin awful marketing that Brew Dog does.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (May 15, 2013)

They do alright beers, but sell them in silly small bottles. No doubt to appeal to larger drinkers.


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## editor (May 15, 2013)

I quite liked their beer at first, but once I realised the extent of their hipster-attarcting, 1970s sexist, Shoreditch-twat, cod-punk cuntitude, I'm boycotting the fuckers.


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## TruXta (May 15, 2013)

editor said:


> I quite liked their beer at first, but once I realised the extent of their hipster-attarcting, 1970s sexist, Shoreditch-twat, cod-punk cuntitude, I'm boycotting the fuckers.


Luckily they're very easily avoidable.


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## SpookyFrank (May 15, 2013)

editor said:


> Not even slightly sexist! 'Edgy' my arse. This is just 1970s rubbish.


 
Most of the punk girls I know have sufficient good sense to wear clothes tbh. And those shoes would be worse than useless in a mosh pit.


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## Firky (May 15, 2013)

BrewDog have been around for years.

These lot, Anarchy Brew from Alnwick (hence the name) do good beer. Not quite sure what their website is about.... blinded folded people in the snow 

http://www.anarchybrewco.com/


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## Dan U (May 15, 2013)

Louis MacNeice said:


> This is much nicer than Brew Dog, comes without the edgy rubbish and when it's on offer in Sainsburys is cheaper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
nice drop that.

Brewdog is ok and tbh some naff marketing is incredibly low down on my list of things to get stressed about. its somewhere between nuclear war and the hole in my sock.

they've started selling Meantime London Lager in my local Youngs instead of Stella, which is a result, but bloody hell is it pricey. Regulars in uproar.


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## Frances Lengel (May 15, 2013)

There are few things more stress inducing than a hole in the big toe bit of ones sock.


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## Dogsauce (May 15, 2013)

Which 'top school' did the bosses inevitably go to then?  They've just opened one in Leeds, hopefully it'll keep the PepsiMax Punks away from the good places.


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## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2013)

treelover said:


> silly comment, they are already a large entitity


 
They're not a "large entity", they're a small brewery who make 3 or 4 bottled beers that have a limited sales base across a couple of supermarkets and one large offie chain. They started off as a micro-brewery supplying local free houses, and grew on the strength of their product.

Their Punk IPA is an excellent thirst-quencher on a warm summer's day.


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## treelover (May 15, 2013)

do they donate a % of profits to good causes..


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## Stigmata (May 15, 2013)

They've broken the rules of punk!


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## butchersapron (May 15, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> There are few things more stress inducing than a hole in the big toe bit of ones sock.


Trim your nails lazy. No holes.


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## where to (May 15, 2013)

They used to drink in a pub my mate ran. Grade A wankers apparently. He boycotts them so I buy the punk ipa beer quite often to wind him up. Its not bad. Actually, pretty good


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## Frances Lengel (May 15, 2013)

Me left big toenail's split atm - I can't cut it til the split grows out IYSWIM, otherwise it'll hurt a bit. I've got a thing about having my nails messed with - If you ever find yourself torturing me, nails are the way to go.

E2a That was in reply to butchers btw


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## chilango (May 15, 2013)

Punk IPA is one of the nicer, hoppier IPAs you can easily pick up. On a par with Bath Ales' Wild Hare.

Stupid name and marketing, but, really, does it matter?


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## where to (May 15, 2013)

The lager and amber ones are not bad either

Brooklyn ipa is better than punk ipa though imo

Edit- goose island ipa I mean.


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## butchersapron (May 15, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> Me left big toenail's split atm - I can't cut it til the split grows out IYSWIM, otherwise it'll hurt a bit. I've got a thing about having my nails messed with - If you ever find yourself torturing me, nails are the way to go.
> 
> E2a That was in reply to butchers btw


Stick a pin under it, kill the bed, then pull it out - simple! That said, if you have a nail thing maybe easier said then done...


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## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2013)

Louis MacNeice said:


> This is much nicer than Brew Dog, comes without the edgy rubbish and when it's on offer in Sainsburys is cheaper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Very nice.

I'm tasting my way through the St. Peter's range of bottled beers at the mo. Their Ruby Ale is lovely.


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## Frances Lengel (May 15, 2013)

chilango said:


> Punk IPA is one of the nicer, hoppier IPAs you can easily pick up. On a par with Bath Ales' Wild Hare.
> 
> Stupid name and marketing, but, really, does it matter?


 
Adverts/marketing will far more often put me off buying something than tempt me to give it a go.


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## Stig (May 15, 2013)

We buy punk IPA by the crate, it tastes great and comes in cans so you can take it to festivals.

Can't stand the marketing. I used to work for jack wills and see so, so many parallels.


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## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> They've broken the rules of punk!


 
There are no rules to Punk, you twazzock!


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## chilango (May 15, 2013)

Also, for the pickier drinkers (snobby feckers like me I'll only drink very hoppy IPAs these days, or an Islay single mat) it's easy for whoever gets sent to the shop to remember...which is a major bonus, too many times I've ended up with shitty Greene King IPA or even worse fucking Old Speckled Hen.

That said my local has Sierra Nevada on draught, so not really an issue. (They had a guest ale the other week called Astro. A REALLY hoppy IPA, lovely).


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## J Ed (May 15, 2013)

I'm still getting over Thornbridge's links with A4E


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## editor (May 15, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> Most of the punk girls I know have sufficient good sense to wear clothes tbh. And those shoes would be worse than useless in a mosh pit.


The use of scantily clad women to 'sex up' dull looking products is one of my pet hates.

In the consumer electronics industry 'booth babes' are still widely employed to wave gadgets about in a glamorous manner, and I always make a point of taking the piss out of those companies employing such dodgy PR.


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## killer b (May 15, 2013)

using the name of a 40 year old youth movement as the name of your beer sure is 'hip'. 

ffs treelover.


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## editor (May 15, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> They're not a "large entity", they're a small brewery who make 3 or 4 bottled beers that have a limited sales base across a couple of supermarkets and one large offie chain.


You don't appear to have much of a clue about what you're talking about.

BrewDog's sales are expected to hit* £18m* this year, and as for that 'limited sales base,' well, they currently export to 32 markets and have started selling to China with South Korea and Germany next on the list.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/21/brewdog-bars-outside-uk


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## phildwyer (May 15, 2013)

treelover said:


> Seems to be a growing trend this 'rebel sell' type of marketing


 
A rather ancıent ''trend'' by now.  Thıs bloke naıled ıt about 20 years ago.


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## Fez909 (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> using the name of a 40 year old youth movement as the name of your beer sure is 'hip'.
> 
> ffs treelover.


 
You should come to _my_ hip new establishment. We have Dubstep Porter, Emo IPA and Nu-Folk Stout.

It's called xStraightEdgeCraftBeersx


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## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2013)

editor said:


> You don't appear to have much of a clue about what you're talking about.
> 
> BrewDog's sales are expected to hit* £18m* this year, and as for that 'limited sales base,' well, they currently export to 32 markets and have started selling to China with South Korea and Germany next on the list.
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/feb/21/brewdog-bars-outside-uk


 
Pardon me for being behind the times.


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## editor (May 15, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Pardon me for being behind the times.


 
They were already racking up a multi million turnover in 2010-11.
http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/Company-City-News/BrewDog-profits-almost-doubled-last-year


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## editor (May 15, 2013)




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## fredfelt (May 15, 2013)

I'm not quite sure why but Brew Dog is irritating while the Iron Maiden branded beer seems 'cool' to me


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## fredfelt (May 15, 2013)

Any product which tries to be your 'pal' through the language on the packaging and general branding can fuck off.  I don't want a new friend, I just want a beer ffs.


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## editor (May 15, 2013)

fredfelt said:


> I'm not quite sure why but Brew Dog is irritating while the Iron Maiden branded beer seems 'cool' to me


 
Maybe because that beer was created with the full involvement of Iron Maiden, whereas Brewdog just steals punk attitudes and values in the name of fat profits for themselves with a bit of sexist advertising thrown in. How about that?


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## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2013)

editor said:


>




How very apt.


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## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2013)

fredfelt said:


> Any product which tries to be your 'pal' through the language on the packaging and general branding can fuck off. I don't want a new friend, I just want a beer ffs.


 
TBF, a lot of brewers do the same thing with labelling, they just do it more subtly, by talking about the exclusivity of their ingredients - make you feel like you too are exclusive, at least that's their plan.


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## editor (May 15, 2013)

So godamn edgy.


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## fredfelt (May 15, 2013)

editor said:


> Maybe because that beer was created with the full involvement of Iron Maiden, whereas Brewdog just steals punk attitudes and values in the name of fat profits for themselves with a bit of sexist advertising thrown in. How about that?


 
Yup.  That just about covers it.


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## fredfelt (May 15, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, a lot of brewers do the same thing with labelling, they just do it more subtly, by talking about the exclusivity of their ingredients - make you feel like you too are exclusive, at least that's their plan.


 
There's a difference there though.  By all means lure me in with positive associations and try to make me feel exclusive for buying the product but the line is crossed when they attempt to give the product itself emotions.


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## killer b (May 15, 2013)

I dont mind the brewdog branding fwiw - most ale is marketed in such a dull manner that its refreshing to see something a bit different for once. Not seen the sexist adverts though.

'stealing punk attitude' lol. And whatever Bruce says, I'm fairly sure maiden's involvement with the brewing process on that trooper beer was totally peripheral.


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## editor (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> I dont mind the brewdog branding fwiw - most ale is marketed in such a dull manner that its refreshing to see something a bit different for once. Not seen the sexist adverts though.


How about the sexist adverts? You like them?


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## butchersapron (May 15, 2013)

Beer for jitters who think they're punks


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## killer b (May 15, 2013)

editor said:


> How about the sexist adverts? You like them?


probably not. As I said in the post you quoted, I haven't seen them. ill have a look when I get home and give you my considered opinion then.


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## Idaho (May 15, 2013)

It's ok beer. Not as nice as that American ipa in the brown bottles with the green labels.


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## TruXta (May 15, 2013)

Idaho said:


> It's ok beer. Not as nice as that American ipa in the brown bottles with the green labels.


Sierra Nevada?


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## ItWillNeverWork (May 15, 2013)

fredfelt said:


> I don't want a new friend, I just want a beer.


 
...said fred, sitting alone as he wept silently into the tankard he held so tight.


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## Louis MacNeice (May 15, 2013)

If you ever see either of these treat yourself.











Cheers and bottoms up - Louis MacNeice


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## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2013)

fredfelt said:


> There's a difference there though. By all means lure me in with positive associations and try to make me feel exclusive for buying the product but the line is crossed when they attempt to give the product itself emotions.


 
So you favour the head-patting, chin-stroking school of advertising over the "in your face" school? Fair enough!
Me, I tend to just try the beer. Something I learned in Germany a long time ago, because all the ads were the same, and tbf all the bottled beers looked exactly the same!  Led to my first exposure to Dortmunder Union that did!


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## editor (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> probably not. As I said in the post you quoted, I haven't seen them. ill have a look when I get home and give you my considered opinion then.


This might help you make up your mind:


> Punk brewery just as sexist and homophobic as the industry they rail against
> The independent Scottish brewery Brewdog invited Snipe along with a few dozen other London food writers to a tasting and a creepy rant last night.
> 
> The location was the new Brewdog Camden pub, where founders James Watt and Martin Dickie planned to treat the assembled with a tasting of their beers and entertain us with the story of their four-year existence. That’s when it got creepy.
> ...


​


> Investing in attitude. Will BrewDog’s brand attract new money?
> What bothered me is that if someone is referred to as a blonde, said individual will invariably be a woman. Men aren’t usually spoken or written about in terms of their hair colour and whenever I’ve heard a ‘blonde joke’ it’s usually been about a woman. So to call the beer Trashy Blonde struck me as the sort of unpleasant gender stereotyping that makes me want to throw my beer in the author’s face.
> 
> Add to this the “titillating, neurotic … and a little bit of low self esteem for good measure,” and I had a nasty taste in my mouth that would take more than a few good beers to wash away. I’ll not launch into a full feminist critique here but suffice to say that even in the 21stcentury women are subjected to – and the subject of – far too much derogatory, degrading and violent treatment, behaviour and attitudes and anything that contributes to that ought to be considered unacceptable.


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## editor (May 15, 2013)

This seems appropriate:


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## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2013)

Louis MacNeice said:


> If you ever see either of these treat yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
A few years ago I started trying the odd "recommended" from the "Beers of Europe" website, which is (if you don't mind buying 6-8 bottles at a time) a good way to try some of the harder-to-get US and European beers, even some of the decent Aussie ones.


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## fredfelt (May 15, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> So you favour the head-patting, chin-stroking school of advertising over the "in your face" school? Fair enough!
> Me, I tend to just try the beer. Something I learned in Germany a long time ago, because all the ads were the same, and tbf all the bottled beers looked exactly the same! Led to my first exposure to Dortmunder Union that did!


 
I'm remarkably fickle when it comes to my choice of beer.  You don't typically get ads for ale so I go from the picture of the tap.  I like, in no particular order, pictures of bridges, trains, aeroplanes, any seasonal associated beer, beer with slightly rude names or good puns.  I'm almost ashamed to admit that there's a cider I buy because it has glamours looking flirty woman on the pump.


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## SpookyFrank (May 15, 2013)

Why oh why would anyone who lives in the UK buy ale specially imported from the US?


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## killer b (May 15, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> Why oh why would anyone who lives in the UK buy ale specially imported from the US?


because some american beer is delicious? why else? what an odd question.


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## phildwyer (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> because some american beer is delicious? why else? what an odd question.


 
The best beer ın the world ıs Amerıcan.  And the worst.


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## ItWillNeverWork (May 15, 2013)

I am a cheapskate beer-heathen for generally going straight for the Carlsberg Export? 8 bottles for about 6 quid and tastes quite nice, in my opinion.


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## killer b (May 15, 2013)

phildwyer said:


> The best beer ın the world ıs Amerıcan. And the worst.


quite. dunno if it's the best, but some of the ales coming out of the USA atm are spectacular.


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## Stig (May 15, 2013)

fredfelt said:


> I'm remarkably fickle when it comes to my choice of beer. You don't typically get ads for ale so I go from the picture of the tap. I like, in no particular order, pictures of bridges, trains, aeroplanes, any seasonal associated beer, beer with slightly rude names or good puns. I'm almost ashamed to admit that there's a cider I buy because it has glamours looking flirty woman on the pump.


 
Then Pumpclip Parade is for you!


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## Stigmata (May 15, 2013)

Even if American ale was the best in all Christendom you'd still be better off drinking something locally produced to where you are, because cask ale suffers from travelling. With IPA it's less of an issue and with lager it doesn't matter, of course.


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## krink (May 15, 2013)

i like punk and i like this. it doesn't cos 4 quid a half either


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## killer b (May 15, 2013)

fredfelt said:


> I'm remarkably fickle when it comes to my choice of beer. You don't typically get ads for ale so I go from the picture of the tap. I like, in no particular order, pictures of bridges, trains, aeroplanes, any seasonal associated beer, beer with slightly rude names or good puns. I'm almost ashamed to admit that there's a cider I buy because it has glamours looking flirty woman on the pump.


i think the pump clip is so important, and so many breweries just fuck it right up (and a lot hardly bother at all) - if you're in a real ale pub or at a beer festival, faced with 15 beers you've not heard of, how else are you going to choose?

while i don't much like brewdog as a company (and their bars are fucking rank), this is something they've done right.


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## killer b (May 15, 2013)

Stigmata said:


> Even if American ale was the best in all Christendom you'd still be better off drinking something locally produced to where you are, because cask ale suffers from travelling. With IPA it's less of an issue and with lager it doesn't matter, of course.


my understanding is they don't really do cask beer in the USA - even the small breweries do kegs - certainly all the american beer (out of barrels) i've ever drunk have been keg. it also tends to be strong too, although that may just be the stuff that makes it over here...


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## Firky (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> quite. dunno if it's the best, but some of the ales coming out of the USA atm are spectacular.


 
Canada has some brilliant microbreweries doing good beer and ciders. This is one of the best microbreweries I've been to, went three times I was that impressed.

http://www.cannerybrewing.com/


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## brogdale (May 15, 2013)

...and for the teetotaler...


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## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2013)

SpookyFrank said:


> Why oh why would anyone who lives in the UK buy ale specially imported from the US?


 
Because some of it is damned tasty, as long as you steer clear of stuff made by Anhauser/Busch or Coors/Molson.


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## fredfelt (May 15, 2013)

Stig said:


> Then Pumpclip Parade is for you!


 
Thanks (Pumpclip was the word I was looking for!)


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 15, 2013)

phildwyer said:


> The best beer ın the world ıs Amerıcan. And the worst.


Steady on. They win the worst award without a doubt, there are some worlds leading beers as well, but the best?

No. Just no.


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## belboid (May 15, 2013)

brogdale said:


> ...and for the teetotaler...


that, I may have to buy.  Although it should shorely be about _not_ getting hammered and sickled, as its non-alcoholic


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## phildwyer (May 15, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Steady on. They win the worst award without a doubt, there are some worlds leading beers as well, but the best?
> 
> No. Just no.


 
There are thousands of mıcrobrews now, that you can only buy ın certaın regıons, states or even cıtıes.  They're often brıllıant, but you won't have heard of them ın the UK.


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## Greebo (May 15, 2013)

cynicaleconomy said:


> I am a cheapskate beer-heathen for generally going straight for the Carlsberg Export? 8 bottles for about 6 quid and tastes quite nice, in my opinion.


*shrug*  You like what you like.  My uncle drinks that stuff, it's his favourite beer.  Then again, he's in his 70s.


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## beesonthewhatnow (May 15, 2013)

phildwyer said:


> There are thousands of mıcrobrews now, that you can only buy ın certaın regıons, states or even cıtıes. They're often brıllıant, but you won't have heard of them ın the UK.


I hear of various ones from friends in the US, and a pub I work at specialises in imported micro brewery stuff from over there, but the day a yank makes a better beer than Old Peculier is the day I eat my shoes


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## 8ball (May 15, 2013)

As one of their target market, I was asked about Brewdog in a market research thing I did for one of their competitors.
Everyone assembled seemed to find Brewdog's branding antics rather tiresome.

edit:  the competitor had some advertising ideas of their own which were moving toward a similar theme - these were dismissed as 'sexist and disturbing' by some of the lads who were in some ways matching the 'young and borderline lairy' profile the brand seems to aim at.  Unless they were quite unrepresentative, I think advertisers are falling behind the times.


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## killer b (May 15, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I hear of various ones from friends in the US, and a pub I work at specialises in imported micro brewery stuff from over there, but the day a yank makes a better beer than* Old Peculier* is the day I eat my shoes


for real? fucking hell.


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## The Boy (May 15, 2013)

Fucking Brewdog .  Boring marketing for increasingly irrelevant beer.  As has been said, if you like the US style of IPA that lots of people are into atm, you can just get a US style IPA which does the job better than the close approximation of a US style IPA that is Brewdog Punk IPA. 

The most confounding thing about them is how they can generate such outrage.  They're just another big brand, despite all the anti-establishment, faux rebellion shtick, and their trolling of CAMRA was mildly amusing once but gets increasingly tiresome.  As does just about everything else about them.


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## The Boy (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> for real? fucking hell.


 
He almost had me onside until that


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## 8ball (May 15, 2013)

The Boy said:


> The most confounding thing about them is how they can generate such outrage. They're just another big brand, despite all the anti-establishment, faux rebellion shtick, and their trolling of CAMRA was mildly amusing once but gets increasingly tiresome. As does just about everything else about them.


 
I'm confounded by the fact that I quite like their beer but find their marketing schtick and general attitude puts me off them.


----------



## Idaho (May 15, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Sierra Nevada?


Yeah that's it. I like it. But it's pricey for such little bottles.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 15, 2013)

phildwyer said:


> The best beer ın the world ıs Amerıcan. And the worst.


 
Bah. I bet they just stuff it full of sugar, salt and trans fats to trick you into thinking it's good.


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2013)

belboid said:


> that, I may have to buy. Although it should shorely be about _not_ getting hammered and sickled, as its non-alcoholic


 
is that a spoof!


----------



## Nigel Irritable (May 15, 2013)

The Boy said:


> Fucking Brewdog . Boring marketing for increasingly irrelevant beer. As has been said, if you like the US style of IPA that lots of people are into atm, you can just get a US style IPA which does the job better than the close approximation of a US style IPA that is Brewdog Punk IPA.


 
The main reason to drink their IPA is that it's about the only halfway decent IPA widely available in cans. Which is useful if you are going to be moving around while you are boozing. Beyond that, the stuff they put out tends to be... ok. Nothing particularly remarkable or memorable apart from the obnoxious marketing.


----------



## treelover (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> using the name of a 40 year old youth movement as the name of your beer sure is 'hip'.
> 
> ffs treelover.


 
I think you will find the 'punk' attitude is a very saleable product, its sadly gone over your head..


----------



## J Ed (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> using the name of a 40 year old youth movement as the name of your beer sure is 'hip'.
> 
> ffs treelover.


 
It might not be 'hip' but it is hipster, 'ironic' marketing is very fashionable at the moment


----------



## chilango (May 15, 2013)

Idaho said:


> Yeah that's it. I like it. But it's pricey for such little bottles.



£4.95 a pint draught in my local.

Not as nice as the bottled stuff though.


----------



## ddraig (May 15, 2013)

treelover said:


> I think you will find the 'punk' attitude is a very saleable product, its sadly gone over your head..


get a fucking clue please


----------



## Voley (May 15, 2013)

I went in their pub in Bristol when I went up to see The Magic Band a few weeks back. It was crap. OK but overpriced beer, rubbish expensive food and an ironic moustache behind the bar.


----------



## Nigel Irritable (May 15, 2013)

Can we assume that, like most of the newer, smaller, "craft" breweries, they aren't unionised?


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2013)

treelover said:


> I think you will find the 'punk' attitude is a very saleable product, its sadly gone over your head..


lol yeah. Totally.


----------



## The Boy (May 15, 2013)

Nigel Irritable said:


> Can we assume that, like most of the newer, smaller, "craft" breweries, they aren't unionised?


 
Wouldn't call them anything less than medium-to-large, but yeah, I doubt very much that they are unionised.  Happy to be proved wrong, mind, but the owners strike me as the sort.


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 15, 2013)

What's wrong with Treelover stating that bullshit "punk" attitude is saleable? It is. And it's shit. And always has been. Punk = catamite, that's the original meaning of the word. Christ, can you imagine Sid Vicious during his time on Rikers? So, you're a punk, huh...? One shouldn't laugh but...No, one shouldn't laugh.


----------



## The Boy (May 15, 2013)

8ball said:


> I'm confounded by the fact that I quite like their beer but find their marketing schtick and general attitude puts me off them.


 
I wouldn't say I  dislike their beer but very rarely drink it (and their marketing does have something to do with this).  As Nigel says, it is *ok*, but there is much better stuff available and the Brewdog selling point of being readily available isn't even such a big deal now either, seeing as the multiples will usually have a decent enough range of US style craft beer in stock.  As will most independents.

When they first hit the shelves they were something of a breath of fresh air for many, but things have moved on.


----------



## belboid (May 15, 2013)

treelover said:


> is that a spoof!


not at all - http://leninade.realsoda.com/

the only retailer does flog it at £1.69 a bottle tho


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> for real? fucking hell.


Yep. Not the bottled stuff, but from a proper pump. Although I've had odd one offs at beer festivals that might be nicer for one pint I've not yet found anything that I would rather drink consistently though a night. It's fabulous


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2013)

Frances Lengel said:


> What's wrong with Treelover stating that bullshit "punk" attitude is saleable? It is. And it's shit. And always has been. Punk = catamite, that's the original meaning of the word. Christ, can you imagine Sid Vicious during his time on Rikers? So, you're a punk, huh...? One shouldn't laugh but...No, one shouldn't laugh.


of course its fucking saleable. Its the idea its 'gone over my head' thats laughable. And the idea that 'punk attitude' is any more edgy than, say, swing dancing or cupcakes.


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Yep. Not the bottled stuff, but from a proper pump. Although I've had odd one offs at beer festivals that might be nicer for one pint I've not yet found anything that I would rather drink consistently though a night. It's fabulous


Its ok. That's about it though.


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> of course its fucking saleable. Its the idea its 'gone over my head' thats laughable. And the idea that 'punk attitude' is any more edgy than, say, swing dancing or cupcakes.


 
Ah, right you are - I misunderstood.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> Its ok. That's about it though.


*shrugs* Personal taste, innit.


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2013)

True. We've long established you have none.


----------



## The Pale King (May 15, 2013)

editor said:


> So godamn edgy.


 Call that a salute? Drop and give me forty, and then forty more...


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> True. We've long established you have none.


*looks at the can of Fosters I'm currently drinking*

No idea what you mean.


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2013)

anyway, I'm glad they irritate old punks. And the beer is nice too.


----------



## fogbat (May 15, 2013)

editor said:


> How about the sexist adverts? You like them?


Until today, I can't say I'd seen any of their sexist ads, which have disappointed me. 

Their other marketing was a bit naff, granted, but it's marketing. What do you expect? 

Their beers are tasty, and their customer service was great when I ordered stuff from them online.


----------



## The Pale King (May 15, 2013)

editor said:


> This might help you make up your mind:
> 
> ​


 
Just don't give them any of this...

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=be...121&start=0&ndsp=39&ved=1t:429,r:26,s:0,i:163


----------



## The Pale King (May 15, 2013)

I'm a bit torn because I like their beer but the self - aggrandizing try - hard marketing gets right on my tits.
Just a part of late capitalism I suppose: - a beer can't just be a beer it has to be a symbol that the consumer can use to distinguish themselves from others based on coolness / knowledge / attitude etc, and make them feel good about themselves doing so. That trashy blonde stuff is cringeworthy.


----------



## Idaho (May 15, 2013)

Someone could make the world's greatest beer, but cringeworthy branding will stop me buying it.


----------



## Tom A (May 15, 2013)

fredfelt said:


> I'm not quite sure why but Brew Dog is irritating while the Iron Maiden branded beer seems 'cool' to me


Not tried that, but "Build a Rocket boys!" (which is endorsed by the band Elbow) is quite a nice little tipple.


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2013)

Must admit, beyond the pump clips ive never seen any of their marketing before. I'll wager thats the same for most people who've drunk their beer.


----------



## Espresso (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> Must admit, beyond the pump clips ive never seen any of their marketing before. I'll wager thats the same for most people who've drunk their beer.


 
I was coming in here to say just that.
I've had a few of their beers here and there. I've even been in one of their pubs - the one in Leeds, we only had the one as the seats were shite and there are far nicer beer places in Leeds, when you're visiting - but I've never seen any of their advertising.


----------



## chilango (May 15, 2013)

I only buy it cos I'm very particular about the beer I like (hoppy, US style IPAs) and this ticks that box and is available in my local supermarket.

The branding, though unpleasant, is irrelevant.


----------



## The Pale King (May 15, 2013)

My first encounter with their advertising was a booklet that had been left on every table in their pub. It was the shoreditch branch, perhaps that had something to do with it...


----------



## xslavearcx (May 15, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> You should come to _my_ hip new establishment. We have Dubstep Porter, Emo IPA and Nu-Folk Stout.
> 
> It's called xStraightEdgeCraftBeersx


 
when i was straightedge i drank kaliber


----------



## chilango (May 15, 2013)

How about Rude Boy Black IPA?

An Italian microbrew that set me back €12  a bottle in Milan.


----------



## Fez909 (May 15, 2013)

xslavearcx said:


> when i was straightedge i drank kaliber


 
It's an ironic name. Even has a moustache 

edit: quoted the wrong post


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 15, 2013)

Louis MacNeice said:


> This is much nicer than Brew Dog, comes without the edgy rubbish and when it's on offer in Sainsburys is cheaper.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Filmed their brewery for a history show a long while back. They seem like really nice guys.


----------



## CyberRose (May 15, 2013)

Anyone mentioned BrewDog and Tescos yet? Heard some stuff about BrewDog from a brewer (admittedly I was pissed at the time) but he hated BrewDog cos of their practices within the business (slagging off fellow breweries just for the sake of it) and that they released a Tesco finest beer (iirc which I might not have there might also have been something about a Tesco funded campaign of some sort) which isn't exactly in keeping with their self defined "punk" image.

Saying that, I like the beers and the pubs!


----------



## The Boy (May 15, 2013)

CyberRose said:


> Anyone mentioned BrewDog and Tescos yet? Heard some stuff about BrewDog from a brewer (admittedly I was pissed at the time) but he hated BrewDog cos of their practices within the business (slagging off fellow breweries just for the sake of it) and that they released a Tesco finest beer (iirc which I might not have there might also have been something about a Tesco funded campaign of some sort) which isn't exactly in keeping with their self defined "punk" image.
> 
> Saying that, I like the beers and the pubs!


 
Tesco Finest American double IPA is Brewdog Hardcore IPA in generic packaging.


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2013)

Orly? How much is it?


----------



## fogbat (May 15, 2013)

This is an Important Thing.


----------



## xslavearcx (May 15, 2013)

Fez909 said:


> It's an ironic name. Even has a moustache
> 
> edit: quoted the wrong post


 
I only got irony after i was straightedge


----------



## brogdale (May 15, 2013)

editor said:


> How about the sexist adverts? You like them?


 
Dodgy advertising seems to be a bit of an issue for brewers; I was surprised to see my tipple of choice advertised like this:-






I believe that Sheps (proper tory @rseholes, like most old brewing families) got their knuckles rapped by the Advertising standards for this one.


----------



## The Boy (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> Orly? How much is it?


 
Less than the Brewdog, but not sure by how much.  And may depend on if the "real thing" is on offer or whatever.  But if you like that sort of thing....


----------



## William of Walworth (May 15, 2013)

Brewdog's beers are OK to drink IMO, actually _well_ more than OK at times.

The marketing is cringeworthy though, and the expense in their pubs a disgrace. You can sometimes get cheap deals for bottles in some supermarkets, but the pubs we avoid. In Bristol especially, and we're often there, we've avoided that Baldwin St place ever since it opened, and that's because of the wanky clientele as well as because of the stupid expense..


In Bristol and elsewhere there are many much more affordable pubs and beers, places offering a wide range of quality beers from genuinely independent microbreweries. That don't use crap marketing ....
.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 15, 2013)

I'm optimisticly assuming that no-one earlier up this thread has been having a pop at small-brewery and niche interest beers in general because of Brewdog's up-themselves approach


----------



## killer b (May 15, 2013)

the brewdog bar in manchester is embarrassing tbh - all the atmosphere of a suburban wetherspoons, but booze at £6 a pint. fuck that. if i want to drink outrageously overpriced beer in manchester i'll go the port street beer house.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> for real? fucking hell.


 
I once watched a nice young Canadian chap down 8 of the little dumpy bottles of Old Peculier in about an hour, then crash to the ground like a felled tree, totally cunted.


----------



## The Boy (May 15, 2013)

killer b said:


> the brewdog bar in manchester is embarrassing tbh - all the atmosphere of a suburban wetherspoons, but booze at £6 a pint. fuck that. if i want to drink outrageously overpriced beer in manchester i'll go the port street beer house.


 
The Edinburgh one is much the same.  Can't speak to any of the others.


----------



## rioted (May 15, 2013)

brogdale said:


> Dodgy advertising seems to be a bit of an issue for brewers; I was surprised to see my tipple of choice advertised like this:-
> 
> I believe that Sheps (proper tory @rseholes, like most old brewing families) got their knuckles rapped by the Advertising standards for this one.


It's been known locally as "Nun's Delight" for many, many years.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 15, 2013)

xslavearcx said:


> when i was straightedge i drank kaliber


 
One didn't drink Kaliber, one suffered it, like taking a particularly rank medicine. Clausthaler, that was actually bearable for an alcohol-free lager, but Kaliber? Kaliber was more rank than a leper's unwashed feet!


----------



## Tom A (May 16, 2013)

killer b said:


> the brewdog bar in manchester is embarrassing tbh - all the atmosphere of a suburban wetherspoons, but booze at £6 a pint. fuck that. if i want to drink outrageously overpriced beer in manchester i'll go the port street beer house.


Hear, hear, and if I want to drink reasonably priced beer I shall head to the many other great pubs in Manchester.


----------



## xslavearcx (May 16, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> One didn't drink Kaliber, one suffered it, like taking a particularly rank medicine. Clausthaler, that was actually bearable for an alcohol-free lager, but Kaliber? Kaliber was more rank than a leper's unwashed feet!


 
Funny thing was when i drank it at the time i had managed to convince myself that it tasted just like beer. But i tried it again about a year ago and it was disgusting!!!


----------



## Superdupastupor (May 16, 2013)

The Boy said:


> The Edinburgh one is much the same. Can't speak to any of the others.


 
exactly that. Complete bullshit company. same with the Glasgow branch. should have learnt my lesson really.

Those Bars are fucking horrible mix of weatherspoons/overpirced wanky clinetelle/ faux-dive schtick 


Williams Bros of Alloa do it better


----------



## badseed (May 16, 2013)

I occaisonally drink BrewDog beers, I like the IPA and the Trashy Blonde is ok. I just grab the bottles from the Beer shop.
This is the first time I have seen their advertising and I am a bit disappointed.


----------



## badseed (May 16, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> Because some of it is damned tasty, as long as you steer clear of stuff made by Anhauser/Busch or Coors/Molson.


 
America produce some fantastic brews, their craft beer industry is huge and they have some great styles.

Check out Sierra Nevada pale and IPA they both go down well.
As for the mega-swill, I was drinking  Blue Moon a lot while I was in the states without realising it was made by Coors.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 16, 2013)

Williams' beers are excellent! 

Not just because of the name either ...


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2013)

Coors brew some excellent beers. I believe they're responsible for the revitalised worthingtons white shield in the UK, and im sure I read about them having a positive input to one of the smaller British breweries? Will have a dig, gimme a minute...


----------



## Louis MacNeice (May 16, 2013)

chilango said:


> How about Rude Boy Black IPA?
> 
> An Italian microbrew that set me back €12 a bottle in Milan.


 
The pub over the road from me has Kissingate Buffalo Black IPA at 2.99 a pint and very nice it is too.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Lemon Eddy (May 16, 2013)

"yet another hip company"? You're joking, they started off in Fraserburgh! This is without doubt the first time anything from the broch has ever been accused of being hip.

The shareholder's meetings are a good laugh. I went to one about five years back. It had 1 item on the agenda, to confirm the business plan. If memory serves, the business plan in it's entirety was "This year we intend to sell beer. All in favour?", and then went straight to a product tasting session, of which I remember fuck all after the first 4 hours.

The two boys seemed sound enough when they were starting up. They managed raise the dosh to launch their own brewery, and then expand it into a pretty sizeable outfit. Maybe the success has got to them or something.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 16, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> I once watched a nice young Canadian chap down 8 of the little dumpy bottles of Old Peculier in about an hour, then crash to the ground like a felled tree, totally cunted.


The ex head brewer at Theakstons brewery, Hugh Curley, told a great tale on the guided tour along similar lines. An American tourist had been on the tour, then proceded to drink 5 pints of Peculier in the Black Bull pub next door, all the while bemoaning the "so called" strong beer. As he started his 6th he fell off his stool and passed out on the floor


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2013)

killer b said:


> Coors brew some excellent beers. I believe they're responsible for the revitalised worthingtons white shield in the UK, and im sure I read about them having a positive input to one of the smaller British breweries? Will have a dig, gimme a minute...


ah, that's it - they bought sharps a couple of years ago. there was a complimentary article about their hands-off approach and support for the head brewer in _whats brewing_ a couple of months ago.


----------



## Tom A (May 16, 2013)

killer b said:


> Coors brew some excellent beers. I believe they're responsible for the revitalised worthingtons white shield in the UK, and im sure I read about them having a positive input to one of the smaller British breweries? Will have a dig, gimme a minute...


Not to dissimilar to how some indie music labels rely on one of the majors for distribution, in my opinion.


----------



## brogdale (May 16, 2013)

rioted said:


> It's been known locally as "Nun's Delight" for many, many years.


 
Yep, since 1958.

I'm originally from Fav.


----------



## pogofish (May 16, 2013)

Lemon Eddy said:


> "yet another hip company"? You're joking, they started off in Fraserburgh! This is without doubt the first time anything from the broch has ever been accused of being hip.
> 
> The shareholder's meetings are a good laugh. I went to one about five years back. It had 1 item on the agenda, to confirm the business plan. If memory serves, the business plan in it's entirety was "This year we intend to sell beer. All in favour?", and then went straight to a product tasting session, of which I remember fuck all after the first 4 hours.
> 
> The two boys seemed sound enough when they were starting up. They managed raise the dosh to launch their own brewery, and then expand it into a pretty sizeable outfit. Maybe the success has got to them or something.


 
Yup - They have worked hard for their firm, built good relationships with the relatively small number of independent licencees here which they still maintain despite larger commercial success and a lot of their funding came from local folk investing directly.

Indeed, one of my colleagues is a pretty ordinary shareholder and spent last weekend at their new brewery in Ellon, learning to make his own beer!


----------



## salem (May 16, 2013)

Geri said:


> They have a pub in Bristol - my friend's husband went there and was charged £4 for a half. I don't think he stopped for another one!


I went into the one in Camden with a mate in the middle of Christmas Eve shopping madness. Paid £8 and it was only on leaving that it clicked we'd got halfs for the price. I didn't clock it at the time as it was nice to sit down and relax and £8 for two beers isn't that odd.

For a while I wondered if the bloke had put them through as pints or something.

Was a massively average pub and I didn't rate the beer either.


----------



## 8ball (May 16, 2013)

Wow - I've been to the one in Nottingham and it was pricey but not as mad as that.


----------



## The Boy (May 16, 2013)

Thinking about it, there is something of the Apple about them.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2013)

it wasn't 4 quid a half for the brewdog beers was it? when we went to the one in manc they had some ferociously expensive guest beers, but the brewdog range was under a fiver a pint...


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2013)

Tom A said:


> Not to dissimilar to how some indie music labels rely on one of the majors for distribution, in my opinion.


not really - they own sharps outright, and have recently also bought an irish craft brewery too, apparently.

i think they've just seen that there's money to be made in the craft brew market, but are (shockingly) actually doing it properly rather than just taking over a brand and ruining it, like how they used to...


----------



## 8ball (May 16, 2013)

killer b said:


> ...*but* the brewdog range was under a fiver a pint...


 
Never a form of words I expected to see in mitigation of beer prices.


----------



## fractionMan (May 16, 2013)

phildwyer said:


> There are thousands of mıcrobrews now, that you can only buy ın certaın regıons, states or even cıtıes. They're often brıllıant, but you won't have heard of them ın the UK.


 
They're not bad, but they're certainly not the best, at least for me.  

It's a style preference thing, most american microbrews are far too heavy/thick tasting for me.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2013)

8ball said:


> Never a form of words I expected to see in mitigation of beer prices.


not saying it was a bargain at a fiver, mind...


----------



## The Boy (May 16, 2013)

killer b said:


> it wasn't 4 quid a half for the brewdog beers was it? when we went to the one in manc they had some ferociously expensive guest beers, but the brewdog range was under a fiver a pint...


 
Fiver a pint is still fucking expensive*. Especially when you can buy it on tap for less than that in pubs that aren't owned by the brewery.  

*And I come from Edinburgh, which is like a shit, provincial version of London.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2013)

I know! but £8 a pint is _even more_ expensive is all...


----------



## fractionMan (May 16, 2013)

Who goes to the pub and pays £8 a pint ffs?

I paid 4.50 for a posh beer as a treat last night, but 8 quid?  fuck off.


----------



## The Boy (May 16, 2013)

killer b said:


> I know! but £8 a pint is _even more_ expensive is all...


 
Oh aye.  But if it is something that only comes into the country in very small quantities I can see a specialist pub charging a premium for that (not to the tune of 8 quid/pint).  It was more that your post reminded me of the fact that they seem to charge more for their own beer than pubs that aren't owned by the brewery.

And it's not like their bars offer some other service that would justify the premium, beyond getting to drink in a Brewdog bar and loudly telling everyone around you that you're a shareholder in the company or whatever.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 16, 2013)

killer b said:


> not really - they own sharps outright, and have recently also bought an irish craft brewery too, apparently.
> 
> i think they've just seen that there's money to be made in the craft brew market, but are (shockingly) actually doing it properly rather than just taking over a brand and ruining it, like how they used to...


 
One of Roger Protz's perennial complaints, that.


----------



## editor (May 16, 2013)

fractionMan said:


> Who goes to the pub and pays £8 a pint ffs?


Not me!


----------



## Tom A (May 16, 2013)

editor said:


> Not me!


I've paid around £4 for a pint by mistake once (or when I know it's a really nice beer), and in Australia (due to the very unfavourable exchange rate between the pound and the Australian dollar). But never anything like £8.


----------



## Lemon Eddy (May 16, 2013)

fractionMan said:


> Who goes to the pub and pays £8 a pint ffs?


 
That would be Norway.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2013)

i've paid £8 a pint in the port street once, just to see what an £8 pint of beer tasted like.

it tasted pretty much like a £4 pint of beer.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 16, 2013)

fractionMan said:


> Who goes to the pub and pays £8 a pint


Cunts.


----------



## Tom A (May 16, 2013)

fractionMan said:


> Who goes to the pub and pays £8 a pint ffs?


Hipsters, mainly, and their distant cousins, the yuppies (remember when it was the latter that was the insult of choice among the left, whilst these days the former has superseeded it?)


----------



## where to (May 16, 2013)

I think its important to factor alcohol percentage into any discussion on price. I don't mind spending four quid or so on a medium sized bottle of ten per cent fantastic beer. If I am half cut or tipsy for fifteen quid I am happy, price per pint is not the whole story. ( not saying they are not ripping you off mind )


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 16, 2013)

None of your four pound pints in there.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2013)

haha, i stayed there after urban drinks last december. it was... odd.


----------



## Frances Lengel (May 16, 2013)

killer b said:


> haha, i stayed there after urban drinks last december. it was... odd.


 
Drinking in there's very disorientating - It's open all day from about ten am & it's down some stairs so there's no windows & it's about £1.20 a pint (it might be £1.50 now), anyway when you come stumbling out at teatime it catches you unawares coz it feels like you're coming out of a club only to be confronted by broad daylight and queues of people waiting for the bus home from work.


----------



## Red Storm (May 16, 2013)

I bought an "Anarchist Alchemist" from the BrewDog in Manchester on Peters Street (?). 

Cost me £12; I was wounded.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2013)

i note a lot of these pubs have started selling beer by the third of a pint, presumably so you don't faint when told the cost.


----------



## 8ball (May 16, 2013)

killer b said:


> i note a lot of these pubs have started selling beer by the third of a pint, presumably so you don't faint when told the cost.


 
It'll be shot glasses before we reach our dotage.


----------



## salem (May 16, 2013)

Well I've only stepped foot in one the time I mentioned before and have never felt any desire to go into another. There are lots of much better places where you can get decent beer for a fair price without some naff decor.


----------



## phildwyer (May 16, 2013)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I hear of various ones from friends in the US, and a pub I work at specialises in imported micro brewery stuff from over there, but the day a yank makes a better beer than Old Peculier is the day I eat my shoes


 
Ugh, I can't stand that stuff.  Leaves a wıcked hangover too, whıch ıs never a good sıgn.


----------



## silverfish (May 16, 2013)

krink said:


> i like punk and i like this. it doesn't cos 4 quid a half either



FIGHt FIGHT FIGHT FIGHT!


----------



## doddles (May 16, 2013)

"Punk"  "Independent" "Alternative"

all words co-opted by big money-makers. At least with "punk" it was a dodgy, publicity hungry money-grab virtually from the outset, with the Pistols. But what's the least bit indie about "indie" music these days?

"Craft" beer *is* ridiculously expensive in this country, though you do have to allow for very small production and high alcohol for some brewers/brews. Also, those super-hoppy beers? Fresh hops are very expensive, especially imported types. Most traditional UK beers - not many hops, often not fresh, often low alcohol. So understandably cheaper.


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2013)

i'm going to this next month. in the motherfucking trade session too. check out the list of breweries... 

http://www.liverpoolcraftbeerexpo.com/


----------



## doddles (May 16, 2013)

doddles said:


> "Punk" "Independent" "Alternative"


Vintage, Craft, Green, Artisinal...


----------



## el-ahrairah (May 16, 2013)

butchersapron said:


> Beer for jitters who think they're punks


 

what's a jitter/s?


----------



## Dogsauce (May 16, 2013)

West country: Jitter = Metaller (as shouted at anyone with long hair by passengers/drivers of passing XR2s cruising around the Centre in my youth - in best Bristol accent 'Oi! - Ji'uurrrr!")
Midlands: Jitter = Crusty type (according to folk I know from Nottingham)


----------



## chilango (May 16, 2013)

Screw you guys. I'm drinking a bottle of Punk IPA as we speak. Mmmmmmm.


----------



## Dillinger4 (May 16, 2013)

you only like it because it makes you drunk


----------



## Voley (May 16, 2013)

I got charged 8 pound 20 for a beer in Paris. I didn't know that 'grande' meant a litre, and sitting on the terrace is financial suicide. I can still remember the words 'soixante douze francs' being read out to me like some sort of death sentence. Cunt wanted a tip, too.


----------



## chilango (May 16, 2013)

Dillinger4 said:


> you only like it because it makes you drunk





Tbh I don't like being drunk thee days. Hangovers and babies REALLY don't mix well.


----------



## chilango (May 16, 2013)

NVP said:


> I got charged 8 pound 20 for a beer in Paris. I didn't know that 'grande' meant a litre, and sitting on the terrace is financial suicide. I can still remember the words 'soixante douze francs' being read out to me like some sort of death sentence. Cunt wanted a tip, too.



That's cheap for Paris. You got a vey good deal.


----------



## Voley (May 16, 2013)

chilango said:


> That's cheap for Paris. You got a vey good deal.


This was about 15 years ago.


----------



## chilango (May 16, 2013)

NVP said:


> This was about 15 years ago.



25 years ago I was outraged at paying 50p for a can of coke in "that there London".


----------



## equationgirl (May 16, 2013)

P





salem said:


> I went into the one in Camden with a mate in the middle of Christmas Eve shopping madness. Paid £8 and it was only on leaving that it clicked we'd got halfs for the price. I didn't clock it at the time as it was nice to sit down and relax and £8 for two beers isn't that odd.
> 
> For a while I wondered if the bloke had put them through as pints or something.
> 
> Was a pretty lame pub and I didn't rate the beer either.


Please could you not use lame in a perjorative context? It's offensive.


----------



## salem (May 16, 2013)

Fair enough, post edited. Had never even considered the origins of the word tbh.


----------



## machine cat (May 16, 2013)

Red Storm said:


> I bought an "Anarchist Alchemist" from the BrewDog in Manchester on Peters Street (?).
> 
> Cost me *£12*; I was wounded.


 
you what?


----------



## killer b (May 16, 2013)

it's a barley wine, 14%. still pricey, but it's not really for drinking by the pint...


----------



## Tom A (May 16, 2013)

Well tonight I tasted some quite nice beers in the Angel and then the Castle (that's in Manchester BTW). Who needs BrewDog and it's pretentiousness, eh?


----------



## The Boy (May 17, 2013)

I do like The Castle.  Top notch toilets in there.


----------



## Red Storm (May 17, 2013)

machine cat said:


> you what?


 
It wasn't even a pint. It was a 330ml bottle.



It was too thick to be enjoyable too.


----------



## Red Storm (May 17, 2013)

The Boy said:


> I do like The Castle. Top notch toilets in there.


 
It's always heaving though


----------



## Red Storm (May 17, 2013)




----------



## machine cat (May 17, 2013)

killer b said:


> it's a barley wine, 14%. still pricey, but it's not really for drinking by the pint...





Red Storm said:


> It wasn't even a pint. It was a 330ml bottle.
> 
> 
> 
> It was too thick to be enjoyable too.



Thanks for explaining.

I was curious about trying their bar in Leeds until I heard about the price.


----------



## treelover (May 17, 2013)

> The west's hidden propaganda machine
> 
> Overt public manipulation is disavowed in the west, unlike in North Korea, but citizens are still 'nudged' – increasingly by social media
> 
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/may/17/west-hidden-propaganda-machine-social-media


 
this might be germane to the discussion, which predictably has moved on to favourite tipples..


----------



## belboid (May 17, 2013)

I cant be arsed to read any further in that article than:

"How rare, I thought, for any aspect of western culture to be identified as propaganda, let alone social media, that beacon of transparency and individual empowerment."

Rare?  Really?  Has this woman been living in a bubble for the past ninety years?


----------



## silverfish (May 17, 2013)

If some one charged me 12 quid for a beer i'd think i was in a clip joint and tell them to fuck off


----------



## ExtraRefined (May 17, 2013)

Just for you urban; went to Brewdog in Shoreditch after porterhouse and claret at Hawksmoor






Watch for date confirmation lolz


----------



## nastyned (May 17, 2013)

http://www.frontarmy.com/news/behold-the-front-brew/


----------



## 8ball (May 18, 2013)

nastyned said:


> http://www.frontarmy.com/news/behold-the-front-brew/


 
That just looks like some kind of_ Grand Theft Auto_ parody.


----------



## isvicthere? (Dec 29, 2013)

trabuquera said:


> "ever get the feeling you've been swindled???"



Post of the century!


----------



## ibilly99 (Dec 29, 2013)

They all need killing in  innovatively punky and anarchic ways - most cuntish advertising ever - like the comment on the video

*Stream*



*CastAirLead*
3 weeks ago

It doesnt get anymore hypocritical that Brewdog. 'Say goodbye to the corporate beer whores crazy for power and world domination… Ride toward anarchy and caramel craziness' Yet the sell all their beers in the main supermarkets and NOW BREW TESCO'S SIMPLY RANGE IPA. Embarassing and incredibly cringe company. If only they would just shutup and brew beer.


----------



## King Biscuit Time (Feb 7, 2014)

Called out here for being a bunch of sexist and homophobic cunts.

This is from their own marketing material for their 'Trashy Blonde' beer.



> A titillating, neurotic, peroxide, punk of a pale ale. Combining attitude, style, substance and a little bit of low self esteem for good measure; what would your mother say?
> 
> You really should just leave it alone…


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 8, 2014)

they're just trendy-arse fuckers, why would anyone take their promo material as some serious political discourse? the sauce tastes good


----------



## Das Uberdog (Feb 8, 2014)

i for one get my political analysis from the back of 'Ordinary Boys' LP covers


----------



## isvicthere? (Feb 8, 2014)

belboid said:


> I cant be arsed to read any further in that article than:
> 
> "How rare, I thought, for any aspect of western culture to be identified as propaganda, let alone social media, that beacon of transparency and individual empowerment."
> 
> Rare?  Really?  Has this woman been living in a bubble for the past ninety years?



I'm pretty sure she was being sarcastic or ironic.


----------



## geminisnake (Feb 8, 2014)

And here was me thinking this had been bumped for this. I laughed at the dvd joke on KBT's link. I didn't read past that though.

http://www.brewdog.com/blog-article/hello-my-name-is-vladimir


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2014)

Cheap PR stunt.


----------



## William of Walworth (Feb 9, 2014)

editor said:


> Cheap PR stunt.




According to the planning permission notice in the window, they're about to open a new 'bar' in Cardiff, very near Zero Degrees and the Queens Vaults (Westgate Street).

We're boycotting that overpriced Brewdog establishment well in advance!


----------



## strung out (Jul 28, 2014)

This made me laugh: http://whiskysponge.com/2014/07/16/brewdog-to-take-a-break-from-re-packaging-their-three-beers/

Exponentially expanding marketing company Brewdog have announced that they are to branch out into distillation using heat for a change. One of Brewdog’s conjoined CEOs Jimmy Volt said while eating a bowl of hops with a spoon:

_“We’ve been re-packaging three American beers for several years now. Basically there’s the light, zingy, hoppy one, the mouth-shrivellingly hoppy high alcohol one and the very strong black one that tastes as if it was matured in a disused coal mine for three years. We’ve already tried distillation for quite sometime by freezing the fuck out of some of the strong black beers we made and shaving off the ice so that they reach ‘spirit’ level strengths. That was the impetus behind beers like ‘Testicle Neutered Benylin’ and ‘Wank The Wizzmark’. However it turns out that apparently you can heat beer up in what’s called a ‘still’ and it does pretty much the same thing. I know ‘fuuuuuunnnnnkkkky’ right?! Anyway that’s what we’re going to do.”_





The Chuckle Brothers of the beer world.

Marty McWilly, Jimmy’s co-marketeer at Brewdog, said while shooting a can of Tennent’s in the face with a blunderbuss full of hops:

_“We’re aiming to have the highest HPM (‘Hops Per Marketing’) of any spirit ever. It’ll be like Octomore except instead of peat smoke and maritime flavours it’ll taste like a washing machine full of out of date cannabis. HIGH FIVE GUYS!” _

Brewdog pride themselves on carefully produced craft beer made at one of their two fifty acre beer refineries. New releases scheduled for this month include:

‘Tartan Trouser Stargate’ : An IPA made with lots of hops at 6%abv that has a completely different label to Punk IPA.

‘God Save The Bovril Squad’ : A impenetrably black stout made with treacle, volcanic glass, aubergines, bits of actual space and marmite. And hops. 17% abv.

‘General Mustard & The Hoppos : A new breed of IPA made with hops and a picture of a hippo on the label. 11% abv.

‘pHoppy’ : Brewdog’s wacky IPA tribute to the millions of men who perished a century ago in the trenches of the 1st World War. 10% abv.

‘Savillian Oversight’ : A satirical IPA bottled in response to the unexplained mass disappearance of official files on historical sexual abuse cases. 4% abv.

Jimmy Volt added while casually brewing a 70% abv beer specifically to irritate the Daily Mail:

_“We’re millionaires now so I’m not actually aware anymore of what we’re doing. I just put on my marketing y-fronts in the morning when I clamber off the large pile of hops I sleep on and go out into the world and say shit until more money appears. Thankfully people seem happy to lap it up like hungry dogs in a puke factory. Now, if you’ll excuse me, I have to write a blurb for a new beer that utilises today’s buzz words which are ‘edgy’, ‘confrontational’, ‘care-free’ and ‘cunnilingus’.” _





Silly Beer + Angry Daily Mail – Angry Article In Daily Mail = SALES = MONEY! (actually clever)

Dr Fergus MacDiesel, a Brewdog disciple, said while casually drinking his 17th pint of Punk IPA:

_“The world has been waiting for this. It’s like the second coming of Jesus, except with a far more expansive and rewarding drinks reception. I’ve been a Brewdog fan since I had my first bottle way back in 2007. I’ve got a tattoo that gets me a discount and I’ve got a syringe so that I can inject 330ml of Hardcore IPA into my thigh in case I start getting hop withdrawal symptoms at any point, usually when I’m driving long distances or doing a particularly frustrating brain operation. Anyway, I’m off to shit into an envelope and post it to the CAMRA headquarters. God I love this Punk IPA, I’ll just have a couple more pitchers before I go.” _​


----------



## treelover (Jul 28, 2014)

The big city festival here, tramlines has nearly all the pubs and bars contributing with putting on gigs, dj's, etc, Brewdog bar which is new here, zero.


----------



## treelover (Jul 28, 2014)

look like they are keeping Fatface in sales.


----------



## trabuquera (Jul 28, 2014)

about that shifty  one on the right: hood-up hoodie worn underneath a suit jacket? is it fashion? this is a thing now?


----------



## 8ball (Jul 28, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> about that shifty  one on the right: hood-up hoodie worn underneath a suit jacket? is it fashion? this is a thing now?


 
I first noticed this around 1999 (albeit not with the hood up), and I'm not quick on the uptake fashion-wise.


----------



## Balbi (Jul 28, 2014)

8ball said:


> I first noticed this around 1999 (albeit not with the hood up), and I'm not quick on the uptake fashion-wise.








Damon and Affleck in Dogma that years, probably a source.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 28, 2014)

Balbi said:


> Damon and Affleck in Dogma that years, probably a source.


 
More trenchcoaty there, but Metatron was more suity.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 28, 2014)

'Savillian Oversight'

classy


----------



## Cid (Jul 28, 2014)

treelover said:


> The big city festival here, tramlines has nearly all the pubs and bars contributing with putting on gigs, dj's, etc, Brewdog bar which is new here, zero.



You in shef? where the hell is there a brewdog bar? I quite like their beers tbh, but there's so much choice in Shef it surely can't be worth it.


----------



## belboid (Jul 28, 2014)

Cid said:


> You in shef? where the hell is there a brewdog bar? I quite like their beers tbh, but there's so much choice in Shef it surely can't be worth it.


yet another shitty bar on Devonshire Street.

They did actually have a bit of music on, tho just a couple of bands a day


----------



## Cid (Jul 28, 2014)

belboid said:


> yet another shitty bar on Devonshire Street.
> 
> They did actually have a bit of music on, tho just a couple of bands a day



Ah, I live in the vicinity of Kelham island and rarely feel the need to walk more than 10 minutes for a pub. Unless it's the Sheaf.


----------



## belboid (Jul 28, 2014)

or the Tap (despite its owners)


----------



## Cid (Jul 29, 2014)

The tap is a place where one departs from lovers. Or, more usually, nosos. Too expensive for normal drinks and I get in arguments about the way their drinks menu has 'girls' on one side and <male designation> on the other.


----------



## belboid (Jul 29, 2014)

Cid said:


> and I get in arguments about the way their drinks menu has 'girls' on one side and <male designation> on the other.


I'd never noticed that!


----------



## Cid (Jul 29, 2014)

Well, it does. Unless I've had hour long arguments over hallucinations.


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jul 29, 2014)

I knew nothing of Brewdog til I saw cans in El Jugs dads fridge - he's 83!


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 29, 2014)

My favourite brewer at the moment is Doctors Orders (Australia), some of the best/interesting beers I've tasted: http://www.doctorsordersbrewing.com/www/Prescriptions.html







^This was my recent tipple.

Not sure if this site is a available in the UK (or if theres something similar) but its handy to know what's on tap at your local:

http://nowtapped.com/royalalberthotel


----------



## skyscraper101 (Jul 29, 2014)

I just can't drink beer at these stupid levels of alcohol that Brewdog et al. produce. It tastes rank.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 29, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> I just can't drink beer at these stupid levels of alcohol that Brewdog et al. produce. It tastes rank.



I find that most of the porters & stouts that can get up to the 10% mark tend to be nice easy drinking, almost too easy 

I'm not overly into very hoppy beers, some IPA's can get a bit too bitter for my liking at strong levels, but  this Riverside Seventy Seven I had recently went down very nice (you wouldn't know it was 7.7% by the taste).

Prices here can be pretty expensive, although I was at a dark beer night the other week and they had four different beers on hand pumps (hand pumps are pretty rare in Sydney), at $10 a pint (what's that about £5.50?) which included the aptly named Othello's Curse (9% i think).

You pay about $6/7 for a schooner of Carlton Draft (popular piss water) around here so I can't complain.


----------



## Batboy (Jul 29, 2014)

treelover said:


> Seems to be a growing trend this 'rebel sell' type of marketing, this time its a brewery called Brewdog with beers named such as Punk IPA, I have no idea about its business practices and workers conditions, but it is so blantant, the niche it is using.



I would think that linking a brand name to a current topical use of language or culture in order to get 'noticed' is as old as the hills. How many businesses set up in the 1970,s using the name Apollo for example?

I like branding and marketing when done well, to some it is bullshit, but bullshit is a fertiliser and in that analogy can help a business grow. It's necessary.


----------



## Batboy (Jul 29, 2014)

editor said:


> Not even slightly sexist! 'Edgy' my arse. This is just 1970s rubbish.



Can we just clarify those that have said they like your post, is it for your comments or ahem the picture embedded into the post?


----------



## Batboy (Jul 29, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> There are few things more stress inducing than a hole in the big toe bit of ones sock.



I fucking hate that when that happens


----------



## Batboy (Jul 29, 2014)

fredfelt said:


> Any product which tries to be your 'pal' through the language on the packaging and general branding can fuck off.  I don't want a new friend, I just want a beer ffs.



But if they all didn't have different names you may not know which beer to get, unless of course you drink any old shit.


----------



## badseed (Jul 29, 2014)

I like the brewdogs tv show. Travel, food and beer info.

There, i've said it.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 29, 2014)

sunnysidedown said:


> I find that most of the porters & stouts that can get up to the 10% mark tend to be nice easy drinking, almost too easy
> 
> I'm not overly into very hoppy beers, some IPA's can get a bit too bitter for my liking at strong levels, but  this Riverside Seventy Seven I had recently went down very nice (you wouldn't know it was 7.7% by the taste).
> 
> ...



When my mate was first travelling with his (Aussie) GF to Sydney and other places in Aus a good few years ago, getting anything other than tasteless pisswater (as they *both* described it -- she's been a UK based real ale fan for over 20 years!) went from very hard indeed, to near impossible, they said. 

They both say now though that if you know where to look, you can find much better choices, so it's good to have that confirmed with informative detail. 

Thanks - I mean even get myself to Australia one day, now


----------



## badseed (Jul 29, 2014)

William of Walworth said:


> When my mate was first travelling with his (Aussie) GF to Sydney and other places in Aus a good few years ago, getting anything other than tasteless pisswater (as they *both* described it -- she's been a UK based real ale fan for over 20 years!) went from very hard indeed, to near impossible, they said.
> 
> They both say now though that if you know where to look, you can find much better choices, so it's good to have that confirmed with informative detail.
> 
> Thanks - I mean even get myself to Australia one day, now



Craft beer and quality imports are everywhere now, the market has changed in the last 5 years. My local bottlo has just opened a craft beer section some really nice stuff.
They also sell Brew Dog beers.


----------



## salem (Jul 29, 2014)

It's interesting how the whole craft beer thing seems to be going off worldwide. Even in Bangalore there is a healthy craft beer scene taking off. I was told by an American guy who was shipped over there to teach them how to do it and of course the Americans are massive into it at the moment.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 29, 2014)

William of Walworth said:


> When my mate was first travelling with his (Aussie) GF to Sydney and other places in Aus a good few years ago, getting anything other than tasteless pisswater (as they *both* described it -- she's been a UK based real ale fan for over 20 years!) went from very hard indeed, to near impossible, they said.
> 
> They both say now though that if you know where to look, you can find much better choices, so it's good to have that confirmed with informative detail.
> 
> Thanks - I mean even get myself to Australia one day, now




This article is worth a read to see the level of threat the two main companies are feeling from the surge of interest in craft beer over the last few years, even going so far as buying up small/craft brewers and having them keep all their _indy_ look and feel. (not that we should be surprised by such tactics).

btw, those CUB beers listed below are fucking terrible the lot of them.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jul 29, 2014)

skyscraper101 said:


> I just can't drink beer at these stupid levels of alcohol that Brewdog et al. produce. It tastes rank.



Dead Pony Club is delicious and about 3.8%. There's also quite a few at around 5% and are really nice.


----------



## marty21 (Jul 29, 2014)

Louis MacNeice said:


> If you ever see either of these treat yourself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Both excellent, The Dark Star APA is my favourite beer


----------



## marty21 (Jul 29, 2014)

killer b said:


> the brewdog bar in manchester is embarrassing tbh - all the atmosphere of a suburban wetherspoons, but booze at £6 a pint. fuck that. if i want to drink outrageously overpriced beer in manchester i'll go the port street beer house.


A friend of mine who used to manage Camden Brewdog is now up at the Manchester Branch


----------



## chilango (Jul 29, 2014)

You can get Punk (and Sierra Nevada) in 'spoons now.


----------



## kavenism (Jul 29, 2014)

mwgdrwg said:


> Dead Pony Club is delicious and about 3.8%. There's also quite a few at around 5% and are really nice.



Yeah I had a pint of that at their Shoreditch pub last Saturday. Very nice stuff. Their Brixton porter is well worth trying if you can find it.
Weird Beard is my favourite of the new London Brewers. Based quite near me and deals in less wanky marketing than Brewdog. http://weirdbeardbrewco.com/


----------



## chilango (Jul 29, 2014)

Anyone know anything about "Hackney Gold" and "Shoreditch Blonde" from the Redchurch Brewery?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 29, 2014)

chilango : No -- I'm pretty sure that brewery's pretty new. Facebook page and all that -- but all of them have those now 

I always keep an eye out for new beers when in town, but I've not come across their ones yet. Check them out and report back when you know more!


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 29, 2014)

sunnysidedown said:


> This article is worth a read to see the level of threat the two main companies are feeling from the surge of interest in craft beer over the last few years, even going so far as buying up small/craft brewers and having them keep all their _indy_ look and feel. (not that we should be surprised by such tactics).
> 
> btw, those CUB beers listed below are fucking terrible the lot of them.




Interesting stuff -- thanks. Have shared that link with my  Aus friend whp I mentioned in the other post .....


----------



## chilango (Jul 29, 2014)

William of Walworth said:


> chilango : No -- I'm pretty sure that brewery's pretty new. Facebook page and all that -- but all of them have those now
> 
> I always keep an eye out for new beers when in town, but I've not come across their ones yet. Check them out and report back when you know more!



I like them. When my local runs out of guest IPA I have to raid their "craft fridge". Got stuck on the Hackney Gold, which while not an IPA has a good dry hoppiness in there. They also have some interesting looking canned stuff  such as "Snake Dog" and "8 ball" but as yet I've not been able to bring myself to part with the best part of a fiver for a can of beer. Besides, they do have a knack of always having a couple of superb guests in (13 Guns, Astro, Liquid Mistress etc.) and Sierra Nevada on tap.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 30, 2014)

Another decent UK brewery worth checking is Mordue Brewery up in Wallsend (on Tyne), not sure if they stock their stuff down south.

http://www.morduebrewery.com/index.php

Workie Ticket won the CAMERA best bitter of Britain in 2013.


----------



## badseed (Jul 30, 2014)

sunnysidedown said:


> This article is worth a read to see the level of threat the two main companies are feeling from the surge of interest in craft beer over the last few years, even going so far as buying up small/craft brewers and having them keep all their _indy_ look and feel. (not that we should be surprised by such tactics).
> 
> btw, those CUB beers listed below are fucking terrible the lot of them.



Interesting article.

Fat Yak is tolerable, but it was a very deliberate attempt at a craft style pale.
Matilday Bay used to be real craft brewer they were then taken over by CUB. I still like their Red Back wheat beer.

Little Creatures used to be one of my favourites, I loved visiting the brewery at Freemantle.Its popularity made it a gateway beer for many people in WA starting on craft beer. They are now owned by Lion/Kirin/Mitsubishi and have shifted brewing to Geelong. Either the beer has changed or my tastes have changed, but I find it pretty average nowadays.

As well as buying up profitable craft the big two are also producing beer which is packaged to look like craft. The actual breweries are not even mentioned on the bottles.
This kind of thing is happening now - http://www.brewsnews.com.au/2013/01/byron-bay-brewing-co-gets-a-little-craft-washing-from-cub/
Plus others like Sail & Anchor (Woolworths) Steamrail (Coles) and don't get me started on fucking Brewed Under Licence shit in the "imported" section of the bottle shop (which I contacted the Thirsty camel buyers & the ACCC about after buying some snide Belgians  ).

Trying to find a decent beer can be a minefield
While I was happy to see this sign in a pub recently, it's dire that they are having to actually tell you that you are not buying fake beer.


----------



## sunnysidedown (Jul 30, 2014)

Yeah I used to be a fan Little Creatures (not the bright ale though) and of White Rabbit's dark ale (esp on tap), still drink it if there's nothing else going. I have to say that I don't mind the odd Kosciusko Pale Ale on a hot afternoon.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 30, 2014)

badseed said:


> Interesting article.
> 
> Fat Yak is tolerable, but it was a very deliberate attempt at a craft style pale.
> Matilday Bay used to be real craft brewer they were then taken over by CUB. I still like their Red Back wheat beer.
> ...



"Brewed under licence" has always been first-class cuntery on the part of the big brewers.  When Fosters first went on sale here (late '70s), it was all cans, and all imported. It had a nice sharpness to it that other lagers (this was the era of Carlsberg, Heineken, Carling and Skol, plus a few others) were missing.  As soon as it got trotted out to the pubs as draught, though, it was the same rat-piss as "brewed under licence" Carlsberg was. Then we got into the '80s, and every imported beer that sold halfway decently was suddenly being produced under licence.


----------



## TotallyGreatGuy (Jul 30, 2014)

BrewDog's pricing is usually attached to the ABV of the drink. They make VERY strong beers that cost more due to excise. Pretty sure thy did a 50% alcohol beer.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jul 30, 2014)

sunnysidedown said:


> This article is worth a read to see the level of threat the two main companies are feeling from the surge of interest in craft beer over the last few years, even going so far as buying up small/craft brewers and having them keep all their _indy_ look and feel. (not that we should be surprised by such tactics).
> 
> btw, those CUB beers listed below are fucking terrible the lot of them.



VB's alright - It does what it says on the tin anyway.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 30, 2014)

sunnysidedown said:


> Another decent UK brewery worth checking is Mordue Brewery up in Wallsend (on Tyne), not sure if they stock their stuff down south.
> 
> http://www.morduebrewery.com/index.php
> 
> Workie Ticket won the CAMERA best bitter of Britain in 2013.




Workie Ticket is great!  

Very hard to find down (UK) South though -- occasionally Wetherspoons have it as a guest, but that's pretty rare ...


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jul 30, 2014)

There's something particularly dishonourable about that type of alcoholic who tries to camoflage or doesn't even acknowledge  his/her addiction by painting it in the colours of the fine wine enthusiast / real-ale connoisseur. Food for thought (though maybe in liquid form),  William of Walworth 

Nah, only messin.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 31, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> There's something particularly dishonourable about that type of alcoholic who tries to camoflage or doesn't even acknowledge  his/her addiction by painting it in the colours of the fine wine enthusiast / real-ale connoisseur. Food for thought (though maybe in liquid form),  William of Walworth
> 
> Nah, only messin.




This week's been nearly-to-completely beer-free for us so far  

I openly admit that's because of skintness though 

Payday's today -- and we're out tonight 

<no shame  >


----------



## chilango (Aug 4, 2014)

I have been drinking this. Very nice.


----------



## Part 2 (Aug 31, 2014)

This isn't brewdog but obviously it's what the worlds been missing. It's the hobo cocktail, served in some wanky 'bbq' place in Mcr..


----------



## teuchter (Nov 20, 2014)

First we had Punk IPA; now we have Punk power tool accessories. Presumably for the hip handyman/woman. Where will it end?






http://www.toolstation.com/document...m=email&utm_campaign=141120-UK&searchstr=punk


----------



## Belushi (Sep 2, 2015)

They've been acting like twats again..

petition: @Brewdog - mocking trans women, sex workers and homeless people is not punk or ethical! #DontMakeUsDoThis


----------



## Enviro (Sep 2, 2015)

No more punk ipa (or any other brewdog products!) for me I think.


----------



## baldrick (Sep 2, 2015)

I had an argument with one of their barstaff in the Brum branch last year when I asked them to top up a pint. There's plenty of other pubs that know how to treat customers so I won't go back. This just confirms what a bunch of arseholes they are.


----------



## tufty79 (Sep 2, 2015)

They've just opened in leeds. Their presence annoys me.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 2, 2015)

I went to the one in Brum a year or so ago and was most amused to be given a lecture on how their stuff was real ale by the staff as they served up their keg beer. There is a lot better beer available in most wetherspoons.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 2, 2015)

tufty79 said:


> They've just opened in leeds. Their presence annoys me.




The presence of so  many and various excellent pubs in Leeds (or so word reaches me from fellow-alelovers) also annoys *ME* ... because I'm unlikely to be able to visit Leeds any time at all soon 

Would never bother with any BrewDog place there anyway -- far too many other (and no doubt far better) places to check.


----------



## tufty79 (Sep 2, 2015)

Indeed.. If you do ever end up this way, give us a shout


----------



## Quartz (Sep 2, 2015)




----------



## equationgirl (Sep 2, 2015)

Quartz said:


>


On a thread where people are generally boycotting brewdog products,  are you posting a picture of one you bought?

Or did you borrow the picture from the Internet?


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 3, 2015)

As Diamond does not actually specify   'Nanny State' is a mere 0.5%.

True fact.

Or is Diamond 'playing' with some sort of clodhopping 'attempt' to take the piss?


----------



## teuchter (Sep 3, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> As Diamond does not actually specify   'Nanny State' is a mere 0.5%.
> 
> True fact.
> 
> Or is Diamond 'playing' with some sort of clodhopping 'attempt' to take the piss?


Diamond? I think you might be getting your crystaline minerals mixed up.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 3, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Diamond? I think you might be getting your crystaline minerals mixed up.



Yes that   

Marginal difference scientifically though 

<reluctantly apologises to someone who isn't Quartz   >


----------



## pogofish (Oct 4, 2015)

A little bird (well a big beardy one) tells me that we may see Brewdog moving into the club market soon.

They took over the lease of one of Aberdeen's former best and best-sited clubs a while back and are now making plans for it as a market test.


----------



## belboid (Oct 4, 2015)

There was a significant gathering outside the Mancs BrewDog on todays demo.  Couldn't work out if it was protesting, or just trying to buy beer


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2015)

"Equity for Punks"
Jeez.  

Equity for Punks IV is now open


----------



## mauvais (Oct 4, 2015)

editor said:


> "Equity for Punks"
> Jeez.
> 
> Equity for Punks IV is now open


This or its precursor has been running for a long time, heavily advertised on Facebook. Floated on a weird kind of private, miniature stock market where at best you can sell your shares to the next numpty who comes along. In reality more like club membership than an investment.


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 4, 2015)

mauvais said:


> This or its precursor has been running for a long time, heavily advertised on Facebook. Floated on a weird kind of private, miniature stock market where at best you can sell your shares to the next numpty who comes along. In reality more like club membership than an investment.


Independent business.


----------



## mauvais (Oct 4, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> Independent business.


Mmm? Is this something to do with the Class War thread?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 4, 2015)

Of course it is.


----------



## mauvais (Oct 4, 2015)

Maybe more than two words would be helpful then?


----------



## butchersapron (Oct 4, 2015)

mauvais said:


> Maybe more than two words would be helpful then?


Not required.


----------



## mauvais (Oct 4, 2015)

Great.


----------



## seeformiles (Oct 4, 2015)

We're in the middle of the "squeezin' season"  - 240 pints of scrumpy so far  - estimated 8% abv expected and all free. All good


----------



## binka (Oct 4, 2015)

kenny g said:


> I went to the one in Brum a year or so ago and was most amused to be given a lecture on how their stuff was real ale by the staff as they served up their keg beer. There is a lot better beer available in most wetherspoons.


I was in the manchester one on saturday night for a quick drink before a gig, had a pint of one of their ipas and it was one of the worst I've ever had. Overpriced pretentious shite.


----------



## J Ed (Oct 4, 2015)

binka said:


> I was in the manchester one on saturday night for a quick drink before a gig, had a pint of one of their ipas and it was one of the worst I've ever had. Overpriced pretentious shite.



Yes there is much better out there for cheaper


----------



## Favelado (Oct 4, 2015)

Nobody drank ale last time I lived in UK so I don't know IPA means. Does it mean "not Stella"?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 4, 2015)

editor said:


> "Equity for Punks"
> Jeez.
> 
> Equity for Punks IV is now open



I know it's only two letters but how can you confuse "punks" and "cunts"?


----------



## J Ed (Oct 4, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Nobody drank ale last time I lived in UK so I don't know IPA means. Does it mean "not Stella"?



It's like a really hoppy ale, someone was telling me the other day you can get craft beer in Oviedo so it must be about there as well


----------



## J Ed (Oct 4, 2015)

though tbh I'd sacrifice the beer selection here for cheaper/better rioja


----------



## Favelado (Oct 4, 2015)

It seemed to just explode overnight. I left London in 2005 and none of my friends drank ale. By 2010 it was the only thing on the table when I went back to that London to visit. Lager's long, glorious day in the sun, finally over.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 4, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Nobody drank ale last time I lived in UK so I don't know IPA means. Does it mean "not Stella"?


Get yerself down to Lidls...
Things to look out for in Lidl and Aldi


----------



## joustmaster (Nov 4, 2015)

The big problem with BrewDog's 'transgender beer'

transgender beer


----------



## Belushi (Nov 4, 2015)

They're such pricks.


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 4, 2015)

Favelado said:


> Nobody drank ale last time I lived in UK so I don't know IPA means. Does it mean "not Stella"?


IPA = India Pale Ale. Many pubs used to sell it. Greene-King, for example, has always had an IPA. It's pish, though. Timothy Taylor Landlord... now there's a fine drop of IPA.  
India pale ale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## stuff_it (Nov 5, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> IPA = India Pale Ale. Many pubs used to sell it. Greene-King, for example, has always had an IPA. It's pish, though. Timothy Taylor Landlord... now there's a fine drop of IPA.
> India pale ale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



It is pish, and often tastes like it too. There's a good local one near me that's over the 6% 'suck it and see' percentage. I doubt you'll see much of it in London though.

And yes, my name is stuff_it and I'm a real ale drinker.


----------



## chilango (Nov 5, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> IPA = India Pale Ale. Many pubs used to sell it. Greene-King, for example, has always had an IPA. It's pish, though. Timothy Taylor Landlord... now there's a fine drop of IPA.
> India pale ale - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



However the IPAs that the so-called craft beers are based on, with the cranked up hops, are American style IPAs which bear little to no resemblance to your Landlords or Greene Kings.


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 5, 2015)

chilango said:


> However the IPAs that the so-called craft beers are based on, with the cranked up hops, are American style IPAs which bear little to no resemblance to your Landlords or Greene Kings.


IPAs have always been well-hopped because they were transported thousands of miles to India (hence the name India Pale Ale). The hops helped to preserve the beer.


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 5, 2015)

stuff_it said:


> It is pish, and often tastes like it too. There's a good local one near me that's over the 6% 'suck it and see' percentage. I doubt you'll see much of it in London though.
> 
> And yes, my name is stuff_it and I'm a real ale drinker.


I've always drunk real ale. I was raised on Greene-King before they turned shite.


----------



## chilango (Nov 5, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> IPAs have always been well-hopped because they were transported thousands of miles to India (hence the name India Pale Ale). The hops helped to preserve the beer.



...which is true.

But the template for most of the "craft IPAs" is Sierra Nevada (and its ilk) not Landlord. American hop varieties such as Cascade, Chinnok and Citra have dominated the scene, though some British and NZ hops are making an inroad more recently. The American style is drier, less malty, fizzier and colder than the British style (as a general rule of thumb).


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 5, 2015)

chilango said:


> ...which is true.
> 
> But the template for most of the "craft IPAs" is Sierra Nevada (and its ilk) not Landlord. American hop varieties such as Cascade, Chinnok and Citra have dominated the scene, though some British and NZ hops are making an inroad more recently. The American style is drier, less malty, fizzier and colder than the British style (as a general rule of thumb).


Okay. Gotcha.


----------



## MrSki (Nov 5, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> I've always drunk real ale. I was raised on Greene-King before they turned shite.


Me & my mates used to travel a fair distance for an Abbott & St Edmunds or A&S as it was known. St Edmunds being a strong bottled pale ale. Green King stopped selling it about 10-15 years ago & now do a blonde beer by the same name.


----------



## MrSki (Nov 5, 2015)

There is a good book about IPA called Hops & Glory by Pete Brown









> *One man's search for the beer that built the British Empire: the original IPA*
> The original India Pale Ale was pure gold in a glass; a semi-mythical beer specially invented, in the 19th century, to travel halfway around the world, through storms and tropical sunshine, and arrive in perfect condition for a long, cold drink on an Indian verandah. But although you can still buy beers with ‘IPA’ on the label they are, to be frank, a pale imitation of the original.



From here.


----------



## stuff_it (Nov 5, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> I've always drunk real ale. I was raised on Greene-King before they turned shite.


Also started drinking spesh in my middle age. No additives innit.


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 6, 2015)

MrSki said:


> Me & my mates used to travel a fair distance for an Abbott & St Edmunds or A&S as it was known. St Edmunds being a strong bottled pale ale. Green King stopped selling it about 10-15 years ago & now do a blonde beer by the same name.


I used to drink Crown and Bitter when Abbott wasn't available. They don't sell Crown Pale Ale any more. The other one was Strong Suffolk. Do they still brew that?


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Nov 6, 2015)

I didn't think Landlord was an IPA; they describe it as a strong pale ale...not mention of heavy hopping for transport to the sub-continent. English IPAs such as Shepard Neame's or Thornbridge's (being two rather different takes on the same theme) aren't much like the wonderful Taylor's Landlord...but a very good in their own right.

As for Punk IPA - as with most decent American style IPAs - the occasional one is pretty good, but you wouldn't want an evening out with nothing but citrus hops and high levels of carbonation.

Cheers and bottoms up - Louis (brewing a best bitter as I type) MacNeice


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 6, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> I didn't think Landlord was an IPA; they describe it as a strong pale ale.


Indeed, it is.


----------



## chilango (Nov 6, 2015)

Louis MacNeice said:


> I didn't think Landlord was an IPA; they describe it as a strong pale ale...not mention of heavy hopping for transport to the sub-continent. English IPAs such as Shepard Neame's or Thornbridge's (being two rather different takes on the same theme) aren't much like the wonderful Taylor's Landlord...but a very good in their own right.
> 
> As for Punk IPA - as with most decent American style IPAs - the occasional one is pretty good, but you wouldn't want an evening out with nothing but citrus hops and high levels of carbonation.
> 
> Cheers and bottoms up - Louis (brewing a best bitter as I type) MacNeice



Indeed.

Hence "session IPAs", "all day IPAs" and the thankfully increasing diversity of red, rye and hop specific IPAs that are a little more subtle or sophisticated than the in yer face hoppy bastards that ruled for a while.

See this thread for examples.


----------



## Sea Star (Nov 6, 2015)

Oh god! We went into a Brew Dog pub in Nottingham last year. not only was it expensive but everyone in there was a complete wanker, especially the staff. We drank up quickly and left!


----------



## 8den (Nov 9, 2015)

Nice Try: Brewdog and No Label

Brewdog have made a "transgender" beer.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 9, 2015)

8den said:


> Nice Try: Brewdog and No Label
> 
> Brewdog have made a "transgender" beer.


what a fucking travesty! can't these idiots just brew beer and shut the fuck up offending people! 

And their beer is shite (well the punk IPA I tried was rubbish)


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 9, 2015)

Btw CRAFT doesn't mean anything. It has no brewing or legal meaning - its just marketing jargon. They hope putting 'craft' into their descriptions will convince you that their high prices are worth it. They are not.


----------



## campanula (Nov 10, 2015)

I wouldn't drink it.

Fondly recalls Greene King Barley wine. Agree that Landlord is a top ale (and also partial to Brains SA)...but I also used to adore Watney's 'Stingo' -  that little red foil top still remains deeply evocative of London nights, staggering about on Stingo and mandies...


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 10, 2015)

campanula said:


> Fondly recalls Greene King Barley wine.




Little gold cans, shotgunned.


----------



## butchersapron (Nov 10, 2015)

Chip Barm said:


> Little gold cans, shotgunned.


That was gold label surely?


----------



## DotCommunist (Nov 10, 2015)

10% devil tins. Gold LAbel.


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 10, 2015)

butchersapron said:


> That was gold label surely?



Aye you're probably right. Suspect I'm not old enough to remember the other stuff!


----------



## hipipol (Nov 10, 2015)

DotCommunist said:


> 10% devil tins. Gold LAbel.


I hammered the windscreen wipers of our £100 BMW 1502 back on when they flew off in Cornwall using Gold label BOTTLES back in ye day
They wuz made proper back then
Note to drink lovers like - I had already swallowed the contents, NO barley wine was hurt during the making of this temp repair


----------



## campanula (Nov 10, 2015)

Not sure I would drink it now (barley wine) - but back in the day when I still had teeth, that slightly glue-y, sweetly sticky, almost viscous (yum, salivating now) drink was just the ticket for a rapid energy boost - practically felt like a meal. Growing up on hot Vimto (Vomito) cordial, it was just a bit of a continuum really.


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 10, 2015)

Wrong thread


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 10, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> what a fucking travesty! can't these idiots just brew beer and shut the fuck up offending people!
> 
> And their beer is shite (well the punk IPA I tried was rubbish)



I should really read threads before posting


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 10, 2015)

Well some one has been offended, so yes its offensive. Why do brewers feel the need to be satirical, whats so satirical about about overpriced, over-hyped, gassy beer? Gendered beer ffs! 

Drinkers don't need added gas, added sexism or added marketing crap.


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 10, 2015)

Red Storm said:


> I bought an "Anarchist Alchemist" from the BrewDog in Manchester on Peters Street (?).
> 
> Cost me £12; I was wounded.



Why would any self respecting anarchist pay 12 quid on a pint? Ffs brewdog are proper taking the piss out of the pretentious left. And all these cunts seem to be of a certain demographic.


----------



## cyril_smear (Nov 10, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Well some one has been offended, so yes its offensive. Why do brewers feel the need to be satirical, whats so satirical about about overpriced, over-hyped, gassy beer? Gendered beer ffs!
> 
> Drinkers don't need added gas, added sexism or added marketing crap.



I didnt read the article and as such didnt realise that there had been some previous transgender issue.

I am aware of some of brew dogs marketing though and that they tend to market towards the left who are more inclined to be anti capitalist and anti paying 12 quid for a pint... unless im thinking of another brewery


----------



## stethoscope (Nov 10, 2015)

More pound signs than punk...

Brewdog is worth every penny of £306m valuation, boss claims


----------



## ViolentPanda (Nov 11, 2015)

campanula said:


> Not sure I would drink it now (barley wine) - but back in the day when I still had teeth, that slightly glue-y, sweetly sticky, almost viscous (yum, salivating now) drink was just the ticket for a rapid energy boost - practically felt like a meal. Growing up on hot Vimto (Vomito) cordial, it was just a bit of a continuum really.



Back in my teen years, I used to brew barley wine a gallon at a time - big hit at parties!


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 11, 2015)

stethoscope said:


> More pound signs than punk...
> 
> Brewdog is worth every penny of £306m valuation, boss claims


Well he would, wouldn't he? He's not going to agree his company is overpriced because the shares will tank.


----------



## Brainaddict (Nov 15, 2015)

A long Baffler piece relevant to the interests of people on this thread: Dark Age - The Baffler

It has a lot of ideas in it, mostly about the replacement of culture with what the entertainment industry chooses to inflict on us, but here are a few juicy quotes.



> No social group is more audibly or visibly “radical” than artists, musicians, and writers, and with the rise of the Culture Trust capitalism seems to have elevated these malcontents to positions of power and responsibility. And just think of the results: now we are sold cars by an army of earringed, dreadlocked, goateed, tattooed, and guitar-bearing rebels rather than the lab-coated authority figures of the past. But even while we live in times in which ostentatious displays of rebellion are celebrated and admired as much as the building of grandiose imitations of Versailles and the burning of hundred-dollar-bills were once, we are constantly reminded of their meaninglessness, their irrelevance to questions of actual power. For all our radical soda pops, our alternative lifestyles, and the uninhibited howls of our hamburger stands, we seem to have no problem with the fact of business control over every aspect of public expression.





> For consumerism is no longer about “conformity” but about “difference.” Advertising teaches us not in the ways of puritanical self-denial (a bizarre notion on the face of it), but in orgiastic, never-ending self-fulfillment. It counsels not rigid adherence to the tastes of the herd but vigilant and constantly-updated individualism. We consume not to fit in, but to prove, on the surface at least, that we are rock ‘n’ roll rebels, each one of us as rule-breaking and hierarchy-defying as our heroes of the sixties, who now pitch cars, shoes, and beer. This imperative of endless difference, not that dread “conformity,” is the genius at the heart of American capitalism, the eternal fleeing from “sameness” that gives us a thirst for the New and satiates it with such achievements of civilization as the infinite brands of identical cola, the myriad colors and irrepressible variety of the cigarette rack at 7-11.





> As countercultural rebellion becomes corporate ideology, even the beloved Buddhism of the Beats has a place on the executive bookshelf. In _The Leader as Martial Artist _(1993) Arnold Mindell, “Ph.D.,” advises men of commerce in the wise ways of the Tao, which he compares to “surfing the edge of a turbulent wave.” For the Zen businessman the world is the same wildly chaotic place of opportunity that it is for the followers of Tom Peters, although an enlightened “leader” knows how to discern the “timespirits” at work behind the scenes





> The problem with cultural dissent in America isn’t that it’s been co-opted, absorbed, or ripped-off. Of course it’s been all of these things. But the reason it has proven so hopelessly susceptible to such assaults is the same as the reason it has become so harmless in the first place, so toothless even before Mr. Geffen’s boys discover it angsting away in some bar in Lawrence, Kansas: it is no longer any different from the official culture it’s supposed to be subverting. The basic impulses of the countercultural idea, as descended from the holy Beats, are about as threatening to the new breed of antinomian businessmen as Anthony Robbins, selling success and how to achieve it on a late-night infomercial.





> Alongside the hyper-rational, hyper-efficient Organization envisioned by America’s premier managers there also developed an emotional and religious conception of business practice, a cult of Positive Thinking that was even more hostile to cultural memory than was the dominant cult of Efficiency. In the writing of the Positive Thinkers anti-historicism reached a new plateau of sophistication: the annoyances of history and cultural particularity were not just to be over-paved, but _levelled_, reduced to a convenient flatness where every epoch was exactly like the present as far back as the eye could see. The economic struggle of daily life was and had _always been_ a matter of individual men and God, a question of just how positively each up-and-coming entrepreneur could think, just how blindly he could pursue success.



And a hint of what resistance might look like:



> No effective challenge to the rule of business can be mounted without solid grounding in precisely the sort of cultural memory that Information Capitalism, with its supersonic yuppie pan-nationalism and its worship of the instantaneous, has set itself out to destroy. Without memory we can scarcely understand our present—what strange forces in the dim past caused this agglomeration of seven million unhappy persons to be deposited here in the middle of a vast continent, clinging to the shores of this mysteriously polluted lake?—much less begin to confront the systematic depredations of the system that has made our lives so miserable. [...] Without an understanding of particularity, of the economic _constructedness_ of our lives, this kind of critical consciousness becomes impossible. All we can know is our own individual discomfort, our vague hankering for something else—an ‘else’ that can be easily defined away as a different product choice, a new lifestyle, a can of Sprite anti-soda, or a little rule-breaking at Burger King.


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 15, 2015)

campanula said:


> I wouldn't drink it.
> 
> Fondly recalls Greene King Barley wine. Agree that Landlord is a top ale *(and also partial to Brains SA)*....



Great anecdotage , but Brains SA really is utter shite these days compared to when it was good. 

Once upon a back in the day


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 15, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Well some one has been offended, so yes its offensive. Why do brewers feel the need to be satirical, whats so satirical about about overpriced, over-hyped, gassy beer? Gendered beer ffs!
> 
> Drinkers don't need added gas, added sexism or added marketing crap.




That recent Brewdog shite is like everything they do and always have done. Pure publicity stunt.


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 15, 2015)

Come back Firkin Breweries. Remember the Firkin Chain? Dogbolter? Fuck me, that stuff was evil.


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 15, 2015)

Firkin! Those were a long time ago ....


----------



## nino_savatte (Nov 15, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Firkin! Those were a long time ago ....


I found this.
What Happened to the Firkin Pubs | Good Beer, Good Pubs


----------



## Dogsauce (Nov 16, 2015)

nino_savatte said:


> I found this.
> What Happened to the Firkin Pubs | Good Beer, Good Pubs


 
Originally the Firkin pubs were in out-of-the-way places using run-down pubs, they had to work hard to make them successful, which is why they ended up good.  I think the late 80s takeover saw them taking on pubs and buildings that didn't meet this criteria, busy sites with more footfall and less effort required to attract people. A lot of the character disappeared then.

(I still have memories of Christmas gigs at the Fleece, with the landlord's band Meatcleaver doing Freebird in 45 seconds)


----------



## stuff_it (Nov 25, 2015)

AuntiStella said:


> Oh god! We went into a Brew Dog pub in Nottingham last year. not only was it expensive but everyone in there was a complete wanker, especially the staff. We drank up quickly and left!





I found out recently that some people I know up here in east midlandshire think it's a real  (if slightly overpriced) bar.


----------



## pogofish (Nov 27, 2015)

I'm hearing they are planning to move-in on the Gin and Vodka markets next - Equipment is already being assembled at Ellon.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Nov 27, 2015)

friendofdorothy said:


> Btw CRAFT doesn't mean anything. It has no brewing or legal meaning - its just marketing jargon. They hope putting 'craft' into their descriptions will convince you that their high prices are worth it. They are not.



In beer terms it seems to mean, 'a small can that costs more than a freshly pulled pint of proper beer'.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Nov 27, 2015)

I love a pint of Dead Pony Club and their lager, it's bloody delicious. And yes I like real ale as well (not calling their beer real ale).

A bit overpriced, but it's always good. Paid a lot more for shittier beer many times.


----------



## treelover (Dec 21, 2015)

Camden Town Brewery sold to world's biggest drinks company



> But Camden’s own crowdfunding website – through which it raised some £2.76m earlier this year – suggest it has a value of around £50m.



Apparently the Camden Beer Company has been sold to the brewing giant ABinBev,	shades of the Indie labels moving to majors, so much for principles, one can say its a form of fraud especially given they had a crowfunding launch recently.


----------



## killer b (Dec 21, 2015)

Who's being defrauded?


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 21, 2015)

treelover said:


> Camden Town Brewery sold to world's biggest drinks company
> 
> 
> 
> Apparently the Camden Beer Company has been sold to the brewing giant ABinBev,	shades of the Indie labels moving to majors, so much for principles, one can say its a form of fraud especially given they had a crowfunding launch recently.


where's the fraud? Crowdfunders invested and will get a returnon their investment. It wasn't a ponzi scheme.


----------



## killer b (Dec 21, 2015)

It's hilarious that 'craft beer purists' expect any other kind of behaviour from the brewers. On the whole, these aren't a few old dudes who love beer having a hack at it: they're hardnosed businessmen exploiting  a trend - yes, they probably also enjoy drinking beer (who doesn't?), but it's primarily a business concern, rich kids trying make money. Of course they're going to sell out when inbev come waving their dollars - it was probably all in their original business plan. 

Also, the article says the crowdfunders have got an additional 70% back on their investment. Totally defrauded.


----------



## William of Walworth (Dec 21, 2015)

I can _partly_ see the 'fraud' point though (in terms of customers I mean). If those beers continue to be marketed as if they're fully independently produced, whereas now they're a sub-brand of BIg Boy International, Inc, then that's none too honest in one way.

I'm not saying I expect anything different though. Nor am I any fan at all of 'craft' as a concept because it can mean far too many different things to different people. Almost meaningless really.

There are plenty of other brewers around who stay small (or smallish) and independent though, and who only plan to expand modestly.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 22, 2015)

Still waiting for you to explain the fraud angle treelover


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 22, 2015)

I keep seeing these in pubs and supermarkets. Who want to buy a tiny bottle of over priced beer, especially when there is plenty of other decent ales.


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Dec 22, 2015)

As pointed out I guess the 'fraud' is a bottle of beer that looks like it has been made by a couple of real ale enthusiasts in a shed behind a pub in the Norfolk countryside but is really made in a massive brewery in Birmingham. There have always been beers made in sheds in Norfolk, they were/are dispensed from a barrel at local beer festivals. A 'beer festival' of regional beers/ciders is of course just an excuse for a pissup so just a marketing ploy. Craft beer just takes all this a stage further & makes millionaires not bankrupts.


----------



## killer b (Dec 22, 2015)

Because it tastes nice? Say what you like about what's driving the current thirst for beers, it has resulted in some spectacular drinks (or had up until a little over 2 years ago).


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## 8ball (Dec 22, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> I keep seeing these in pubs and supermarkets. Who want to buy a tiny bottle of over priced beer, especially when there is plenty of other decent ales.



People who want to try a new beer?


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 22, 2015)

8ball said:


> People who want to try a new beer?



Fortunately with all the intrest in beer recently there are normally plenty of other choices.


----------



## Almost There (Dec 22, 2015)

My OH loves their beers.


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 22, 2015)

killer b said:


> Because it tastes nice? Say what you like about what's driving the current thirst for beers, it has resulted in some spectacular drinks (or had up until a little over 2 years ago).



Given the series of nadirs reached by major breweries in the last 40 years, the revival of breweries (micro or otherwise) who are prepared to take a risk on punting new brews is fantastic, IMO.
I'm also not particularly fazed by bigbeer buying up small "craft" breweries, as most of them are taking a "hands off" approach - you don't fix something that ain't broke. It's like Dr Oetker (massive German food combine) owning about 40 of Germany's regional brewers, but totally not messing with anything to do with the supply chain or the production line, because they know not to piss off the consumers.


----------



## Pickman's model (Dec 22, 2015)

killer b said:


> Who's being defrauded?


don't worry, it's only a treelover argument so there's neither rhyme nor reason to it.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 22, 2015)

Pickman's model said:


> don't worry, it's only a treelover argument so there's neither rhyme nor reason to it.


or explanation.  not for the first time either.


----------



## 8ball (Dec 22, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> Fortunately with all the intrest in beer recently there are normally plenty of other choices.



That assumes a reason not to try this one.

Though yes, I think they are overpriced too.


----------



## Sid Viscous (Dec 22, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> I keep seeing these in pubs and supermarkets. Who want to buy a tiny bottle of over priced beer, especially when there is plenty of other decent ales.



330 ml beer bottles can fuck _right_ off. Especially when they cost more than 500 ml ones.


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## killer b (Dec 22, 2015)

Is value for money the main measure you use when buying everything you consume? What colourful lives you must lead, washing down your Tesco value baked beans with a can of skol...


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## SaskiaJayne (Dec 22, 2015)

killer b said:


> Is value for money the main measure you use when buying everything you consume? What colourful lives you must lead, washing down your Tesco value baked beans with a can of skol...


Skol is crap. Tesco value baked beans on Tesco value white toast is best washed down with 2litres of Tesco cider.


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## rich! (Dec 22, 2015)

Global Stoner said:


> I keep seeing these in pubs and supermarkets. Who want to buy a tiny bottle of over priced beer, especially when there is plenty of other decent ales.



Brewdog Punk IPA is £1.79 for 330ml of a 5.6% beer in Budgens in Islington. Which makes it my go-to option from their fridge. Tiny Rebel is only £2-and-change, but still not as nice


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## killer b (Dec 22, 2015)

SaskiaJayne said:


> As pointed out I guess the 'fraud' is a bottle of beer that looks like it has been made by a couple of real ale enthusiasts in a shed behind a pub in the Norfolk countryside but is really made in a massive brewery in Birmingham.


The whole point of 'craft brewing' was to lose the image real ale has of being made behind a shed in norfolk (and thus widen the market). Camden are selling millions of pints of beer a year through a thousand outlets - they are already a substantial, sophisticated organisation, and have never hid it (indeed, the sophistication of such breweries is part of their marketing schtick). So, no fraud.


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## equationgirl (Dec 22, 2015)

It's not like they're promising beer and delivering lemonade to investors. That WOULD be fraud.


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## William of Walworth (Dec 22, 2015)

I question any idea that big company takeovers of small, originally independent breweries is risk free or cost free for the beer's quality and integrity (surely Urbans don't think this anyway?).
_
Sometimes_ additional investment will work very well and spread the word and availability of very good beer. I take the point from ViolentPanda on that. They have to be genuinely left alone though.

But other times, and there are examples, once decent beer will end up much blander because of the scale of its more popular/corporate version. The sheer ubiquity of certain beers can ring warning bells for me. I met the former head brewer of Sharps in September at an event we went to, he'd left them when Molson-Coors bought it out, and he had some interesting criticisms to make ... (not that Sharps were ever among my favourites, but I make a broader point)


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## killer b (Dec 22, 2015)

I read an article in Whats Brewing some years ago that was very complimentary of the Sharps take over, saying that in fact they had been pretty much left to do what they want: I take it that wasn't the case in reality? 

I don't want to give the impression I'm all for multi-national brewers - far from it. I just disliked the semi-hysterical tones treelover introduced the subject of this takeover to the thread with. Camden is a substantial & ambitious brewery (ambitious to make money at least) and a lash-up with a multinational is the logical next step for a brewery of it's ilk. Anyone who thinks the craft tag is anything but marketing is totally deluded - and that isn't to say there aren't some fine beers being made - just that the ethos supposedly shared across the industry is only paid lip service to in the vast majority of cases. If other brewers appear cross at Camden for this, it's likely because for a second, the curtain has been pulled back.


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## killer b (Dec 22, 2015)

TBH I never really got with the craft beer thing anyway - most of them are too hoppy and too strong for my palate. And before they came along, I generally found the product of microbreweries behind sheds in norfolk wildly variable - I much prefered a beer from one of the mid to large-size regional breweries - I could still be tempted by a pint of Tim Taylors Golden Best, if one passed in front of me. That level of complexity and balance of flavour seems very difficult for smaller breweries to manage, for some reason.


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## William of Walworth (Dec 22, 2015)

You're damned right about quality varying widely, and that some stuff considered by some to be cutting edge will taste overdone/extreme. 

More another time because you raise some fair points.


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## Brainaddict (Dec 22, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> I question any idea that big company takeovers of small, originally independent breweries is risk free or cost free for the beer's quality and integrity (surely Urbans don't think this anyway?).
> _
> Sometimes_ additional investment will work very well and spread the word and availability of very good beer. I take the point from ViolentPanda on that. They have to be genuinely left alone though.
> 
> But other times, and there are examples, once decent beer will end up much blander because of the scale of its more popular/corporate version. The sheer ubiquity of certain beers can ring warning bells for me. I met the former head brewer of Sharps in September at an event we went to, he'd left them when Molson-Coors bought it out, and he had some interesting criticisms to make ... (not that Sharps were ever among my favourites, but I make a broader point)


Did they change Doom Bar? I used to like it but now find it very bland. But it could just be my palate improving. Hard to tell sometimes...


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## killer b (Dec 22, 2015)

Brewdog have made a statement on the topic, speaking of cross breweries.

NAILING OUR COLOURS TO THE MOTHER FUCKING MAST


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## equationgirl (Dec 23, 2015)

killer b said:


> Brewdog have made a statement on the topic, speaking of cross breweries.
> 
> NAILING OUR COLOURS TO THE MOTHER FUCKING MAST


I wonder if they would sell though, for the right price. After all, if they really aren't in it for the money,  why didn't they stay as a small brewer? Why do they own a string of pubs up and down the UK?  

one of the comments was interesting - pointing out that the proposed new article of association could be made stronger. I doubt brewdog has crap lawyers and the choice of words was deliberately weak.


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## badseed (Dec 23, 2015)

Can't see much wrong with Brew Dogs statement of intent.

I've seen two of my favourite breweries get bought out by internationals in the last two years and their previous flagship beers are bland and unrecognisable.


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## Greasy Boiler (Dec 23, 2015)

Which ones?


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## badseed (Dec 23, 2015)

Greasy Boiler said:


> Which ones?


Mountain Goat and Little Creatures sold to Asahi and Lion Nathan


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## rich! (Dec 23, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> I wonder if they would sell though, for the right price. After all, if they really aren't in it for the money,  why didn't they stay as a small brewer? Why do they own a string of pubs up and down the UK?
> 
> one of the comments was interesting - pointing out that the proposed new article of association could be made stronger. I doubt brewdog has crap lawyers and the choice of words was deliberately weak.



James Watt has been pretty clear on this - they are two guys who are passionate about beer who want to make great beer and get it to people. 

It genuinely looks like that's what he's up to. They may be making shedloads of cash but seem to be ploughing it back into the business. They were the first brewery to pay the living wage, increase staff pay if they get relevant qualifications, and the people I know who worked there only stopped because they were poached. (And some went back).

I think it's worth remembering that there are people who read "Good to Great" and said "yes, why not build a great place to work at that does great things, rather than just making a pile of cash and retiring". The "entrepreneurs journey" story where you sell out the business after 5-7 years is mostly aspirational for people I wouldn't spend time with


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## mauvais (Dec 23, 2015)

Well, it's difficult to reconcile all this bluster with the way BrewDog have behaved over time. Plenty of ways around it too.


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## rich! (Dec 23, 2015)

mauvais said:


> Well, it's difficult to reconcile all this bluster with the way BrewDog have behaved over time. Plenty of ways around it too.



Oh, I don't know, maybe *read the book* where he sets out his philosophy of business?


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## mauvais (Dec 23, 2015)

rich! said:


> Oh, I don't know, maybe *read the book* where he sets out his philosophy of business?


Why on earth would I want to do that? There's enough of their propaganda knocking about already.

The point is that it seems unlikely that they would behave as they do - frequently cynically and unpleasantly to these eyes - and then out of principle not act in their own best interests if the right proposition came along. I guess time will tell.


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## equationgirl (Dec 23, 2015)

rich! said:


> Oh, I don't know, maybe *read the book* where he sets out his philosophy of business?


James Dyson did the exact same thing - he said he was passionate about engineering and wanted manufacturing in the UK to grow again. He believed in it so much he shipped all his manufacturing to Malaysia.  he also stopped offering a lifetime guarantee on all his products, it's only five years now. He didn't need the money either, his company was doing fantastically.


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## killer b (Dec 23, 2015)

There's much to agree with in the Brewdog blog post, but they have a long history of their rhetoric not matching their reality. What is clear is that the Camden sale was a fine opportunity for positioning the company in opposition to the majors, and they were quick out of the traps: every craft ale dullard in the country will have shared that post on fb. But it is positioning. If Brewdog remain independent, it's because the business model they've pioneered - which includes a bullish commitment to independence - makes them enough money (and it does seem to be doing this very well). 

Camden, despite it's substantial turnover, seems to be making a very modest profit: the sale price seems to be well over what it's actually worth. Who can blame them for taking the cash? I would have.


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## equationgirl (Dec 23, 2015)

Brewdog do have a long track record of do as we say, not do as we do.


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## rich! (Dec 23, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> James Dyson did the exact same thing - he said he was passionate about engineering and wanted manufacturing in the UK to grow again. He believed in it so much he shipped all his manufacturing to Malaysia.  he also stopped offering a lifetime guarantee on all his products, it's only five years now. He didn't need the money either, his company was doing fantastically.



I've never heard anyone say James Dyson was a great guy to work for, tbf, and I've met a number of people who worked for him.

Brewdog really does seem to be a company set up by two guys who love brewing great beer and want to do that. If they change their minds about that, then I'd expect them to sell up, move out, move on. Camden, on the other hand, does seem to be a company that was setup entrepreneurially to build on the craft beer trend and make a lot of money and cash out. And, to be fair, their beer quality has always reflected that.


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## killer b (Dec 23, 2015)

do they make kool-aid as well as beer? 

_two guys who *love* brewing great beer._


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## William of Walworth (Dec 23, 2015)

Brainaddict said:


> Did they change Doom Bar? I used to like it but now find it very bland. But it could just be my palate improving. Hard to tell sometimes...




It really is very *very* bland nowadays.

Moar later etc , because I've been drinking better and more independent/local beer tonight


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 23, 2015)

I've had a wonderful selection of beer tonight. 

It came from Lidl. There is certainly a lot of money to be made in "craft" beer at the moment, but luckily you don't have to pay it.


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## William of Walworth (Dec 23, 2015)

Aldis is (even) better than Lidl for budget-priced bottled choice!  (IMO, like  )

Global Stoner


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## purves grundy (Dec 23, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Aldis is (even) better than Lidl for budget-priced bottled choice!  (IMO, like  )
> 
> Global Stoner


I'm doing an early, last-minute raid on both tomorrow.


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## badseed (Dec 23, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> Brewdog do have a long track record of do as we say, not do as we do.



Apart from the deeply unpleasant marketing what else have they done that has created a long track record?

I'm not a fan of the omnipresent conjoined frat boys who own Brewdog, but I like the beer that they produce and I just got two cartons at half price.


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## killer b (Dec 24, 2015)

I mentioned the Camden sale to a friend who runs a pub this evening, and he told me he wasn't surprised as they're money grubbing fucks who make shit beer. He also mentioned that they'd sued a smaller brewery who also used the name 'Hells', despite it just being in both cases simply a play on the german word for a light beer (Helles), rather than the smaller brewery ripping off Camden.


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## Wolfie Smith (Dec 24, 2015)

I'm the Landlord of a free of tie North London pub which sells shed loads of Camden Hells and Camden Pale Ale.   I'm pretty disappointed by this sale because we'd much rather source most of our beer from independent, local breweries than large international conglomerates.  However as long as they continue to brew locally and the quality doesn't drop, I think we will carry on selling their beer.  I can understand why some of the people who invested in their recent crowdfunding exercise might be put out - I suspect many contributed to support the growth of an independent brewery, and not simply as a financial investment. 

We don't sell Brewdog beers mainly due to this very thread.  As an old punk rocker, I find Brewdog's branding is nails-down-a-blackboard painful and can't stand the sight of the couple of twats that run the company.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 24, 2015)

When treelover bumped the thread he compared it to Indie labels which seemed wrong to me because I thought the connection people have to music isn't the same as it is to beer. From the last couple of pages it seems it is similar though - there's the same expectation that because someone has made some songs/beer that they should stick to a belief system they've never said they actually believe in. 

Difference is that the Dischord Brewery producing Fugazi Pale Ale doesn't exist. It would be interesting to see someone try it, I think they'd end up getting furiously denounced when they discovered that they couldn't compete with White Lightening and Special Brew and were forced to sell at a mark up to people with money.


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## 8115 (Dec 24, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> I wonder if they would sell though, for the right price. After all, if they really aren't in it for the money,  why didn't they stay as a small brewer? Why do they own a string of pubs up and down the UK?
> 
> one of the comments was interesting - pointing out that the proposed new article of association could be made stronger. I doubt brewdog has crap lawyers and the choice of words was deliberately weak.


One reason for having your own outlets is you can then serve your beer just as you'd want it served, the beer journey is from brewing to glass and it can damage your brand if say pubs don't look after the beers, the cellar is too warm or whatever.

Brewbog beers are really beautiful beers from what I remember, they deserve to be looked after properly.

If they're buying/ selling outlets, that is just the stuff the hospitality industry is made of.


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## killer b (Dec 24, 2015)

Theyre keg beers, there isn't much you need to do to keep 'em, other than clean the lines regularly


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## Dogsauce (Dec 24, 2015)

8ball said:


> That assumes a reason not to try this one.



Because in this case they've demonstrated multiple times that they're dicks? 

Because most of these 'indie'/start-up companies are set up by privately educated spoiled shites with massive social capital and daddy's money, have zero knowledge or concern about the interests of wider society and are basically tories that would happily fly the flag for Boris Johnson (as some have done).  It's not innovation or enterprise, it's a continuation of existing hierarchies 'with a funky twist'.


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## mauvais (Dec 24, 2015)

badseed said:


> Apart from the deeply unpleasant marketing what else have they done that has created a long track record?
> 
> I'm not a fan of the omnipresent conjoined frat boys who own Brewdog, but I like the beer that they produce and I just got two cartons at half price.


I dunno about do-as-I-say etc, but at some point down the road of setting up a national business empire, raising millions in private equity, etc etc, whilst there remain minnow independents, you have to acknowledge that you're no longer the plucky little upstart whose rhetoric constituted much of your schtick.

Now you can delay that a little by dressing up your equity raise as crowdfunding - or 'Equity for Punks' if you're a dickhead - and still not being up there with the multibillion majors. But not indefinitely and not with the same ferocity.

Then you can bang on about independence and the irrelevance of market share etc, which is easy when you're winning, but as they quietly admit themselves amongst all the bluster in that blog post, they have to ask their shareholders for permission first to change their articles. Heh. To something vague with no legal meaning anyway. At this point I doubt they could stop themselves being bought out if they tried.

And yet there are structures available that could have enshrined independence and the claimed values - a co-op, a trust etc - if it had mattered. But it doesn't because it's primarily about capital. Which is absolutely normal and unremarkable until you make a big fuss about how you're different.


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## equationgirl (Dec 24, 2015)

8115 said:


> One reason for having your own outlets is you can then serve your beer just as you'd want it served, the beer journey is from brewing to glass and it can damage your brand if say pubs don't look after the beers, the cellar is too warm or whatever.
> 
> Brewbog beers are really beautiful beers from what I remember, they deserve to be looked after properly.
> 
> If they're buying/ selling outlets, that is just the stuff the hospitality industry is made of.


That's pretty much only the case if you have a single outlet, you can control everything exactly the way you want it then. But multiple outlets up and down the country, some hundreds of miles away from your brewery, even with the best will in the world not everything is going to be controlled perfectly. The lines may not be flushed properly. The glasses should be washed properly but might not be and so on. 

They're always on the look out for new sites, they're not content with just a few pubs to sell their products through. They want to grow and make more money and they're trying to make out they are rebellious and edgy while doing so.


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## equationgirl (Dec 24, 2015)

badseed said:


> Apart from the deeply unpleasant marketing what else have they done that has created a long track record?
> 
> I'm not a fan of the omnipresent conjoined frat boys who own Brewdog, but I like the beer that they produce and I just got two cartons at half price.


They appear to have, by their own admission, a bit of a track record of elasticating the facts somewhat, especially when it comes to getting loans from banks and at least one supply contract:
THE BIG PROFILE – JAMES WATT, BREWDOG: Beer revolutionary who pushes the boundaries


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## Sid Viscous (Dec 24, 2015)

A slight exaggeration but not much of one - Brewdog make one  beer and sell it in several differently labelled (330 fucking mil) bottles. And it's pot luck as to the quality of the beer you'll find in those bottles - Can be ok, can be not so ok. Still, not as bad as Sierra Nevada pine-needle flavour toilet duck "beer". Which also in a 330 ml bottle. 

I know it's all subjective but forget all this brewdog nonsense and all this craft gimpery - I'd recommend  anyone within commuting distance of the Black Country try some Batham's
Bathams Brewery  |  Our Brews

-A small, family run brewery making _nice beer_ without any of the attendant bullshit that all too often seems to come with the craft territory.

And unfined beers aren't _supposed_ to be fucking cloudy at all. #murkshaming.


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## William of Walworth (Dec 25, 2015)

Bathams definitely kicks the arse on quality  

Hard to find unsurprisingly, I've only ever had it when on a CAMRA trip to the Black Country three years ago (we also visited the excellent Sadlers brewery down the road).

I'm drinking some superb Yeti from Tattons in Cheshire right now  -- beers from there are local distribution only, found no further away than Liverpool, or Manchester (not too often in those cities either) and they're completely small scale and independent**

(We only had the Yeti down here because out festival mate -- beer and music -- is one of the brewers  and brought a few pints down in a box  )..

**Which is what most of the best beers are all about IMO. Obviously I do sometimes buy/drink beer from the bigger more well known corporates, but I much prefer the small scale when I can find it


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## mauvais (Dec 25, 2015)

Is it unusual to Hampshire to have loads of brewers? Out our way we have Upham, Bowman Ales, Ringwood, Flack Manor and a whole bunch of others. Wetherspoons & the like do a pretty good job of stocking the products, as do smaller supermarkets like Coop & Budgens.


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## equationgirl (Dec 25, 2015)

mauvais said:


> Is it unusual to Hampshire to have loads of brewers? Out our way we have Upham, Bowman Ales, Ringwood, Flack Manor and a whole bunch of others. Wetherspoons & the like do a pretty good job of stocking the products, as do smaller supermarkets like Coop & Budgens.


isn't that area where hops were grown traditionally? Not sure if they still are.


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## mauvais (Dec 25, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> isn't that area where hops were grown traditionally? Not sure if they still are.


Possibly but I don't know much about the history of it. I know it's largely the South East & Midlands that do it now.


----------



## Dandred (Dec 25, 2015)

Rebel Language? Hahahaha

Their beer tastes good,


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## ViolentPanda (Dec 25, 2015)

Dandred said:


> Rebel Language? Hahahaha
> 
> Their beer tastes good,



Some of it is good, some sucks leper cock.


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## Greasy Boiler (Dec 25, 2015)

I always thought they were full of it and I'm not a massive fan of their beers. There always seems to be a better alternative in a bigger bottle across the aisle.


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## Cerv (Dec 26, 2015)

killer b said:


> I mentioned the Camden sale to a friend who runs a pub this evening, and he told me he wasn't surprised as they're money grubbing fucks who make shit beer. He also mentioned that they'd sued a smaller brewery who also used the name 'Hells', despite it just being in both cases simply a play on the german word for a light beer (Helles), rather than the smaller brewery ripping off Camden.



It was Redwell they sued. Didn't think the case was over yet, but can't find the defence crowdfunding campaign online anymore. 
Craft beer brewers head to High Court in £100k ‘Hells Lager’ dispute


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## badseed (Dec 27, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> They appear to have, by their own admission, a bit of a track record of elasticating the facts somewhat, especially when it comes to getting loans from banks and at least one supply contract:
> THE BIG PROFILE – JAMES WATT, BREWDOG: Beer revolutionary who pushes the boundaries



They bluffed out an interview regarding how much they could produce and then lied to get a bank loan when they were skint and just beginning?

Is that it? They filled the order and paid back the bank.



equationgirl said:


> Brewdog do have a long track record of do as we say, not do as we do.


Don't agree with this and cant find any evidence.

They are certainly guilty of being massive bell ends but they seem sincere in their love of beer and the reasons they are doing it.


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## kenny g (Dec 27, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> James Dyson did the exact same thing - he said he was passionate about engineering and wanted manufacturing in the UK to grow again. He believed in it so much he shipped all his manufacturing to Malaysia.  he also stopped offering a lifetime guarantee on all his products, it's only five years now. He didn't need the money either, his company was doing fantastically.



The cleaners are shit as well.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Dec 27, 2015)

William of Walworth said:


> Aldis is (even) better than Lidl for budget-priced bottled choice!  (IMO, like  )
> 
> Global Stoner



I know! Although whilst nice as I always shop there, the range started feeling a samey,so was nice to be able to do a Lidl shop on the way to my folks. 

Sadly neither of them do Old Crafty Hen or the Shepherds Neme IPA I'm enjoying at the moment.


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## badseed (Feb 25, 2016)

This is pretty fucking cool of them.
DIY DOG

The recipes and instructions for every beer they have made in great detail.


----------



## editor (Feb 25, 2016)

badseed said:


> This is pretty fucking cool of them.
> DIY DOG
> 
> The recipes and instructions for every beer they have made in great detail.


Open source breweries are not exactly a new thing. The Buzz beer was open source from the start.
And they can fuck off with their pathetic 'Equity Punks' shit. They're as punk as Cameron.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Feb 25, 2016)

badseed said:


> This is pretty fucking cool of them.
> DIY DOG
> 
> The recipes and instructions for every beer they have made in great detail.



Good stuff. I'd like to make a vat of dead pony, yum,


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## William of Walworth (Feb 25, 2016)

editor said:


> And they can fuck off with their pathetic 'Equity Punks' shit. *They're as punk as Cameron*.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Feb 25, 2016)

badseed said:


> The recipes and instructions for every beer they have made in great detail.



Punk IPA ingredients:

-Beer
-Marketing


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## William of Walworth (Feb 25, 2016)

And I liked that comment from SpookyFrank above, despite having quite liked Brewdog beer in the past (OK almost entirely discount Punk IPA cans from Sainsbury's deals  ).


----------



## badseed (Feb 26, 2016)

editor said:


> And they can fuck off with their pathetic 'Equity Punks' shit. They're as punk as Cameron.



 I think Dave's more a mod, what with his snappy suits and all.


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## Idris2002 (Feb 26, 2016)

editor said:


> They're as punk as Cameron.



Isn't fucking a dead pig pretty punk? Or is it more death metal-esque?


----------



## alsoknownas (Feb 26, 2016)




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## skyscraper101 (Feb 26, 2016)

I've never bought anything from brewdog. I don't like strong alcohol content beers anyway and I'm not falling for any of that 'punk' marketing shit even if I did.

TBF, they've made a commercial success of it. But it's a tried and tested formula isn't it. Ever since the club explosion in the 90s when alcohol sales mysteriously dropped  they've reached out to the youth market with re-hashed versions of existing drinks with added marketing guff to make it cool. This is just doing for beer what alcopops did for mixers and Magners/Bulmers did for cider.

It's all bollocks.


----------



## xslavearcx (Feb 26, 2016)

best Scottish brewed beer is still Tennants


----------



## teuchter (Feb 29, 2016)

.


----------



## oneflewover (Mar 3, 2016)

Whilst away from home following The Tigers, slipped in to the Birmingham Brew Dog bar. Worried, not seeing any beards.

Tennants  beer, is that the classy one with the girls on the cans¿


----------



## NoXion (Mar 4, 2016)

oneflewover said:


> Tennants  beer, is that the classy one with the girls on the cans¿



No. The ones I've seen come in blue cans, smell like nail polish remover and taste like something you'd use to clean engine parts. That's Tennant's Super. It's rank shite you only drink to get pissed, like Special Brew.

Presumably there's a non-Super version, although whether it's any good I couldn't say because I've never seen it, let alone tasted it.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 4, 2016)

NoXion said:


> Presumably there's a non-Super version, although whether it's any good I couldn't say because I've never seen it, let alone tasted it.



There is. It is not.


----------



## oneflewover (Mar 4, 2016)

Meant these. Must have been before your time.


----------



## The Pale King (Mar 4, 2016)

oneflewover said:


> Meant these. Must have been before your time.


 
Classy! I remember those now - at first I thought you had meant Sweetheart Stout.


----------



## xslavearcx (Mar 4, 2016)

it's not that bad. just a bog standard fizzy beer that goes down smoothly especially when cold.  like carling not as good as miller but they don't sell that in cans now   no taste sensation but does the job for0a social pint or for a few cans when in  house. not hangover generator like real ales can be. . .


----------



## The Boy (Mar 4, 2016)

The Pale King said:


> Classy! I remember those now - at first I thought you had meant Sweetheart Stout.



After my mum gave birth to me, the midwife told her there were 'bottles' outside in the hall and she was to help herself.  She assumed it was for milk or whatevs, but in the hall was a stack of Sweetheart Stout for the mums.  High in iron.

#thegoodolddays


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 5, 2016)

xslavearcx said:


> best Scottish brewed beer is still Tennants




Thats anti BrewDoggian Correctness gone mad!! 

Try Williams of Alloa,or some of the better Highlands and Islands micros.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 8, 2016)

Tonight at 9 on bbc2 is who's the boss. It's about breeding trying to recruit a new member of staff. A review I read said one of the bosses is a right bar steward.


----------



## salem (Mar 8, 2016)

alsoknownas said:


>



Every so often I get a notification of an update to this thread and every time I scroll down, see 'piss chimp' and . Brilliant cartoon and absolutely spot on.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2016)

This programme is fucking toecurlingly bad.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2016)

Twats attracting twats seems to be the story here.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Mar 8, 2016)

No escape from this stuff. Went to Norway recently and they were selling Brewdog rubbish in at least 2 bars we visited. We drank the local ales instead.


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2016)

So I've learnt that the head 'punk' James is a thoroughly unlikeable megalomaniac who overrides his staff when they're supposed to be involved in a collaborative project. Awful company, awful man.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 9, 2016)

I've just caught it. An arrogant little shit who will smile, laugh and joke one minute and will kick you out the door for not saying yes the next minute.
Craft beer my arse. I had a pint of landlord and a pint of wandle for lunch. Equally superb proper beers.


----------



## Idris2002 (Mar 10, 2016)

The Boy said:


> After my mum gave birth to me, the midwife told her there were 'bottles' outside in the hall and she was to help herself.  She assumed it was for milk or whatevs, but in the hall was a stack of Sweetheart Stout for the mums.  High in iron.
> 
> #thegoodolddays


That was standard operating procedure, back in the day - I'm sure I remember my Ma talking about it.


----------



## campanula (Mar 10, 2016)

Mackesons - a bottle a day - totally recommended during 'lying in' (10 days, minimum) and still offered as an evening tipple instead of Horlicks when my eldest was born.
I can't see Brew Piss stimulating much lactation.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 25, 2016)

In-depth article on BrewDog in Thursday's Guardian.

Plenty in there that'll (correctly) make you despise the main two for being publicity-stunt-obsessed wankers.

But there's also some pretty good broader analysis of the brewing scene today -- UK and to an extent US as well.

Writer didn't mention the stupid prices BrewDog charge in their vile poncy 'bars' but bar that obvious fault, I thought overall it was a really interesting/worthwhile piece -- definitely not a hagiography to me.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 25, 2016)

William of Walworth said:


> In-depth article on BrewDog in Thursday's Guardian.
> 
> Plenty in there that'll (correctly) make you despise the main two for being publicity-stunt-obsessed wankers.
> 
> ...


That's a long advert.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 25, 2016)

brogdale said:


> That's a long advert.


That's a VERY long advert


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 25, 2016)

brogdale equationgirl -- I disagree that's ALL it is though. There's plenty in there to confirm my dislike of them too.

Off to bed now, but I will get back to this because I find it interesting.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 26, 2016)

Fuck Brew bitches; support your local independent brewery. This is mine, and some damn fine beer they brew
Sambrook's Brewery


----------



## chilango (Mar 26, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> That's a VERY long advert



A very long, free, advert.

A very long, free, advert that is smug enough to rub your face in the fact that it's s very long, free, advert.


----------



## isvicthere? (Mar 26, 2016)

oneflewover said:


> Meant these. Must have been before your time.



I used to know a duo who did a comedy sketch using these cans. They managed to get them long after I thought they'd stopped being made.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 26, 2016)

What is it about Scottish drink manufacturers? Pick an Iron Bru ad, any Iron Bru ad!


----------



## The Boy (Mar 26, 2016)




----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 26, 2016)

hash tag said:


> Fuck Brew bitches ; *support your local independent brewery*.



I always favour this. Our largest local one, Tomos Watkins, is boring and bland in its beer (IMO!), but we now have a few other micros in our area (Swansea, fairly recently an appalling beer desert) that are improving and innovative. But they all have to bow down in respect to Tiny Rebel all the way over in Newport.

TR are at least as innovative with hops and recipes and new beers as BrewDog purport to be, but their (sadly few) pubs are reasonably priced and they don't fuck about with publicity stunts 

So there are plenty of other breweries around that really are excellent. I thought this comment quoted in the Guardian article above was perceptive :




			
				Guardian said:
			
		

> Jon Kyme, a thoughtful small real ale brewer in Ulverston, Cumbria, is one such sceptic.
> 
> People “like to identify strongly with something; hang their identity on it”, Kyme said. BrewDog has set itself up – brilliantly – to embody that identity: young, hip, rebellious, championing quality, battling a mediocre status quo. In fact, Kyme said, while the brewer undeniably makes good beers, there are lots of people pushing the craft boundaries at the moment and “very few are making beers that are vastly superior to anyone else’s”.
> 
> And that, he reasoned, is why the hype is so crucially, critically important to BrewDog: “In a sense, it’s their main product. It’s only in the hype that there is an absolute, quantum gap between BrewDog and the rest. Their entire existence, basically, is marketing.”



I question the word 'brilliantly'  but otherwise, in an understated way, those words look pretty condemnatory.


----------



## brogdale (Mar 26, 2016)

hash tag said:


> Fuck Brew bitches; support your local independent brewery. This is mine, and some damn fine beer they brew
> Sambrook's Brewery


Really like the draught 'Wandle', but every time I have a pint I hear that voice on the shoulder reminding me that the owner was a city fund manager.*

*I know most brewers are tories, and all that, but...


----------



## hash tag (Mar 26, 2016)

"Was"a banker.


----------



## chilango (Mar 26, 2016)

William of Walworth said:


> I always favour this. Our largest local one, Tomos Watkins, is boring and bland in its beer (IMO!), but we now have a few other micros in our area (Swansea, fairly recently an appalling beer desert) that are improving and innovative. But they all have to bow down in respect to Tiny Rebel all the way over in Newport.
> 
> TR are at least as innovative with hops and recipes and new beers as BrewDog purport to be, but their (sadly few) pubs are reasonably priced and they don't fuck about with publicity stunts
> 
> ...



Is that brewery in Ulverston the one that does Stringers IPA? Nice beer that. Always have a couple when I'm up that way. Though another local brewery - Hawkshead - is even better imho.

Tiny Rebel is often in my local (well, it's not my local local but the nearest that has a decent pint). Yet, the excellent beers from Siren, West Berks and Binghams (our local small Brewers aren't .


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Mar 26, 2016)

chilango said:


> Is that brewery in Ulverston the one that does Stringers IPA? Nice beer that. Always have a couple when I'm up that way. Though another local brewery - Hawkshead - is even better imho.
> 
> Tiny Rebel is often in my local (well, it's not my local local but the nearest that has a decent pint). Yet, the excellent beers from Siren, West Berks and Binghams (our local small Brewers aren't .



We get Siren down in Brighton at my local and very nice too...although I don't think their breakfast stout (at a claimed 6.5% on the pump) would really be a good idea for breakfast!

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## brogdale (Mar 26, 2016)

Louis MacNeice said:


> We get Siren down in Brighton at my local and very nice too...although I don't think their breakfast stout (at a claimed 6.5% on the pump) would really be a good idea for breakfast!
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


Light(ale)weight!


----------



## purves grundy (Mar 26, 2016)

chilango said:


> A very long, free, advert.
> 
> A very long, free, advert that is smug enough to rub your face in the fact that it's s very long, free, advert.


I dunno, I found it pretty interesting, not so much about the nature of the company and its _ATTITUDE!_ but the shifts in brewing and drinking that have led to such a company being able to do what they do. I've only ever drunk craft ale in Bangkok (tenner a pint!) and the 'movement' is empty as fuck, but its emergence is fascinating. The writer of that Graun piece could've given us more on that and less of their shocking punkiness, but even the latter is intriguing in itself.


----------



## chilango (Mar 26, 2016)

It could've been an interesting look at "craft beer" but it wasn't.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 26, 2016)

chilango said:


> It could've been an interesting look at "craft beer" but it wasn't.


Aye, they barely mentioned Michael Jackson (although he was more of a whisky man, to be fair)  and his influences.  had they talked to other craft brewers more extensively it would have been an interesting read
 there was no mention of their sexist marketing for example. It wasn't a balanced article.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 27, 2016)

I've defended that article a bit, and I broadly agree with purves grundy .

A far better read though is Brew Britannia : the Strange Rebirth of British Beer by Jessica Boak and Ray Bailey (I can't link atm but it can easily be Googled). Fascinating history, a highly informative read, and fairly up to date (2014)). They thought Thornbridge were more important in recent(ish) beer innovation than BrewDog. Admittedly one of the BrewDog people worked there for a while, but it wasn't him who was key in that excellent brewery.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 27, 2016)

Also given due credit in that book are Michael Jackson, and the superb Roosters Brewery in Knaresborough. Plus plenty of other great people


----------



## pogofish (Apr 10, 2016)

I am at brewdog's shareholder pissup just now. How the fuck did I manage to blag this one. ?


----------



## purves grundy (Apr 10, 2016)

pogofish said:


> I am at brewdog's shareholder pissup just now. How the fuck did I manage to blag this one. ?


Are they in full wanker costume?


----------



## pogofish (Apr 10, 2016)

Pretty beardy tbh & lots of hip hop.


----------



## pogofish (Apr 10, 2016)

OK, another busload from the meeting just got in. The wanker/ed quotient is rising - but free beer, who cares!


----------



## pogofish (Apr 10, 2016)

Nelson Sauvingon - 9%,  quite nice. Reggae Prodigy - not quite as nice/complementary! Think I may be suffering tomorrow.


----------



## pogofish (Apr 10, 2016)

Few Russell Brand clones strutting around and fake smoke.

More beer needed


----------



## pogofish (Apr 10, 2016)

I see cutoffs. Who on earth are "The Turbojeugend" - Top rocker so they must think they are some kind of outlaw?


----------



## Nylock (Apr 10, 2016)

xslavearcx said:


> best Scottish brewed beer is still Tennants


McEwan's Champion if you want a strong Scottish beer that doesn't taste like oven cleaner


----------



## Cid (Apr 10, 2016)

pogofish said:


> I see cutoffs. Who on earth are "The Turbojeugend" - Top rocker so they must think they are some kind of outlaw?



Turbojugend are fans of er... Turbonegro. Which is a band from Norway. And not racist, honest gov - it's ironic see.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Apr 10, 2016)

Nylock said:


> McEwan's Champion if you want a strong Scottish beer that doesn't taste like oven cleaner



Quite right!

Cheers and bottoms up - Louis MacNeice


----------



## heinous seamus (Sep 14, 2016)

I was browsing a job site tonight when I spotted this ad:

"We’re looking for an innovative and experienced Brewer to join our motley crew and get elbow deep in hops, malt & yeast as they assist in brewing and developing our epic range of craft beers."

Tossers.


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Sep 15, 2016)

heinous seamus said:


> I was browsing a job site tonight when I spotted this ad:
> 
> "We’re looking for an innovative and experienced Brewer to join our motley crew and get elbow deep in hops, malt & yeast as they assist in brewing and developing our epic range of craft beers."
> 
> Tossers.


Sounds a bit like working for Trumans brewery nr Colchester in the 1970s. 4 cans of beer allowance per day for all employees & as much beer as you could swallow on shift. The long defunct brewery building is now a development of upmarket flats.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 15, 2016)

Have to say Sambrooks do a universally fine pint. Long Man are another one to watch out for.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 15, 2016)

heinous seamus said:


> I was browsing a job site tonight when I spotted this ad:
> 
> "We’re looking for an innovative and experienced Brewer to join our motley crew and get elbow deep in hops, malt & yeast as they assist in brewing and developing our epic range of craft beers."
> 
> Tossers.




I'd want to know who put that advert up though. Bermondsey triangle? 

I've been known to tolerate beer from 'hipster' microbreweries, because here in choice-deprived far-West Wales, ie Swansea or worse, we rarely get interesting or even non-dull stuff.

So we escape to Cardiff (and Bristol   ) 

But even so, I only drink hop-dominated weird shit well away from the tosser hipsters in the actual breweries, and I rarely if ever meet those.

But all that said, the beer *has* to be quality. It's all about that.


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 15, 2016)

kenny g said:


> Have to say Sambrooks do a universally fine pint. Long Man are another one to watch out for.



Both great 

My personal preference is Long Man .... very rare out here, but Spoons outlets very occasionally get it


----------



## kenny g (Sep 17, 2016)

William of Walworth said:


> Both great
> 
> My personal preference is Long Man .... very rare out here, but Spoons outlets very occasionally get it



Never seen it at a spoons - will keep an eye out. Phoenix do some really nice beers as well. Phoenix Brewery


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 18, 2016)

Phoenix are great as well, agreeing. I've on occasion seen them in Spoons as well.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 20, 2016)

William of Walworth said:


> Phoenix are great as well, agreeing. I've on occasion seen them in Spoons as well.



Do you ever volunteer at those CAMRA festival events?


----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 20, 2016)

kenny g : I work at our own -- Swansea Bay Beer Festival (it was held over the August Bank Holiday w/e).

But all other beer fests I prefer to go as a punter


----------



## kenny g (Sep 22, 2016)

William of Walworth said:


> kenny g : I work at our own -- Swansea Bay Beer Festival (it was held over the August Bank Holiday w/e).
> 
> But all other beer fests I prefer to go as a punter



Will try and combine with a fam holiday some year. Doing a stint at the St Albans fest next week. Quite like having the chance to have tasters of a wide range along with the discipline of having to serve up and not get shit faced.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2016)

Elvis Twat and Elvis Dickhead
Brewdog bosses change names to Elvis after legal threat from the King of Rock and Roll's estate


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 8, 2016)

Yet more publicity-mongering from the merchants of same. Unsurprising


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 8, 2016)

editor said:


> Elvis Twat and Elvis Dickhead
> Brewdog bosses change names to Elvis after legal threat from the King of Rock and Roll's estate


Twat and dickhead are about right.


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2016)

Brewdog are such utter twats

The Vegan Society: Remove the Vegan Society trademark from BrewDog's products.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 7, 2016)

editor said:


> Brewdog are such utter twats
> 
> The Vegan Society: Remove the Vegan Society trademark from BrewDog's products.


They are, but haven't they done the dead animal bottle thing before as some kind of special (expensive) limited edition?


----------



## mauvais (Nov 7, 2016)

It's from 2010.


----------



## strung out (Nov 7, 2016)

mauvais said:


> It's from 2010.


They're doing it again: https://www.brewdog.com/usa/lowdown/press-hub/end-of-history-usa


----------



## mauvais (Nov 7, 2016)

strung out said:


> They're doing it again: https://www.brewdog.com/usa/lowdown/press-hub/end-of-history-usa


Ah lovely. Repetition for punks!


----------



## teuchter (Nov 7, 2016)

It's quite a silly petition. Are vegans going to be misled into thinking that a beer presented in a taxidermied animal does not in fact involve any animal products, just because the Brewdog range includes vegan beers?


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 27, 2017)

Brewdog bullying independents 

Brewdog accused of hypocrisy after forcing pub to change name


----------



## Wolveryeti (Mar 27, 2017)

Brewdog planning sale of 30% of shares to a 'big buyer', and a future IPO. (link)

The new articles of association the owners are trying to force through for the sale will apparently allow them to sell 15% of the equity as if it were 30% - diluting existing shareholders rights. The buyer's identity remains shrouded in secrecy. It couldn't possibly be a 'monolithic purveyor of bland beer' could it?


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Brewdog bullying independents
> 
> Brewdog accused of hypocrisy after forcing pub to change name





> Brewdog, the craft beer company that prides itself on a “punk” ethos, has been accused of acting like “just another multinational corporate machine” after forcing a family-run pub to change its name or face legal action.
> 
> The fast-growing Scottish brewer, which has burnished its underdog credentials with vocal criticism of how major brewers operate, recently launched a vodka brand called Lone Wolf. But it threatened legal action against a pub in Birmingham that opened under the same name, prompting allegations of bullying and hypocrisy from within the pubs and brewing community.
> 
> ...


Utter cunts. Awful company.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Mar 27, 2017)

Brewdog backed down in the end. But not before the pub had already rebranded at extra expense


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 27, 2017)

They should by rights compensate the pub owners for this fuckery. Threatening legal action when you have no case whatsoever should be treated as harassment and punished accordingly.


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 27, 2017)

'vexatious litigation'


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2017)

Wow. So generous.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 27, 2017)

Sounds just like MacDonalds - bastards.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 27, 2017)

editor said:


> Wow. So generous.




His lawyers are gonna be mad at him for that I reckon, looks suspiciousy like an admission of wrongdoing.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 27, 2017)

I'm pleased to say I've never given Brewdog a brass penny and never will.


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> I'm pleased to say I've never given Brewdog a brass penny and never will.


Same here. They're as 'punk' as Theresa May.


----------



## hash tag (Mar 27, 2017)

Me neither. Nothing like a pint of proper ale in my book


----------



## baldrick (Mar 27, 2017)

Hopefully this bar will get more custom with all this publicity. I go past it every day, perhaps I should go in


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 27, 2017)

baldrick said:


> Hopefully this bar will get more custom with all this publicity. I go past it every day, perhaps I should go in



The bar is owned by a brother and sister who've taken a risk opening where they can afford it and probably a bit far out of the JQ. They do good beer (lots of local breweries) and excellent pie!

They are dead friendly and it's a nice crowd. Given they've had to change everything thanks to Brewdogs 'lawyers' they would probably welcome your support. We went in on Friday and had a top night, give it a go


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2017)

This bollocks they're spouting about their supposed autonomous lawyers who have their pre-rubber stamped blessing to sue whoever they like in the company's name. Lying bunch of cunts.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 27, 2017)

editor said:


> This bollocks they're spouting about their supposed autonomous lawyers who have their pre-rubber stamped blessing to sue whoever they like in the company's name. Lying bunch of cunts.



I'd have far more respect for them if they just put their hands up and apologised and then offered to compensate Lone Wolf for the costs they've incurred in terms of the bar signs etc. 

The idea that a legal firm would commence litigation without instruction is just shite.


----------



## baldrick (Mar 27, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> The bar is owned by a brother and sister who've taken a risk opening where they can afford it and probably a bit far out of the JQ. They do good beer (lots of local breweries) and excellent pie!
> 
> They are dead friendly and it's a nice crowd. Given they've had to change everything thanks to Brewdogs 'lawyers' they would probably welcome your support. We went in on Friday and had a top night, give it a go


Yeah the gentrification of the JQ is increasingly creeping out to Hockley. I do wonder how the people who live on the east side of constitution hill feel about all the drunken idiots in their neighbourhood. 

That said, at least it's not a chain and I will go and check it out at some point soon.


----------



## treelover (Mar 27, 2017)

skyscraper101 said:


> Brewdog backed down in the end. But not before the pub had already rebranded at extra expense




'The Lone Wolf' sounds better

btw, on PM, R4, the owner basically told BD to eff off.


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Mar 27, 2017)

I think on PM I heard BD state they would offer the bar goodwill gesture of 2 free cases of vodka & half price beer supplies for a year.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 27, 2017)

baldrick said:


> Yeah the gentrification of the JQ is increasingly creeping out to Hockley. I do wonder how the people who live on the east side of constitution hill feel about all the drunken idiots in their neighbourhood.
> 
> That said, at least it's not a chain and I will go and check it out at some point soon.



To be fair that bottom bit of constitution hill needs something like Lone Wolf, but totally agree re the gentrification of the Jewellery Quarter.


----------



## The39thStep (Mar 27, 2017)

SaskiaJayne said:


> I think on PM I heard BD state they would offer the bar goodwill gesture of 2 free cases of vodka & half price beer supplies for a year.


Why on earth would they settle for that?


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 27, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> I'd have far more respect for them if they just put their hands up and apologised and then offered to compensate Lone Wolf for the costs they've incurred in terms of the bar signs etc.
> 
> The idea that a legal firm would commence litigation without instruction is just shite.


Aye, utter utter bollocks. Even some of the more rapacious fee chasers wouldn't do that without client agreement.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 27, 2017)

SaskiaJayne said:
			
		

> I think on PM I heard BD state they would offer the bar goodwill gesture of 2 free cases of vodka & half price beer supplies for a year.





The39thStep said:


> Why on earth would they settle for that?



And why would the Lone Wolf people even consider that offer anyway? They've already been quoted in that Guardian report saying that they favoured local microbreweries, not corporate/big-company products.

I reckon we'll make a point of going to the LW when we're next in Birmingham, now. They sound like our sort of place anyway 

(Thanks for that recommendation as well, Smokeandsteam  )


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 27, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> And why would the Lone Wolf people even consider that offer anyway? They've already been quoted in that Guardian report saying that they favoured local microbreweries, not corporate/big-company products.
> 
> I reckon we'll make a point of going to the LW when we're next in Birmingham, now. They sound like our sort of place anyway
> 
> (Thanks for that recommendation as well, Smokeandsteam  )




I'd also recommend fellow indie craft bar, Tilt (on Union Passage - just off New Street) and the Gunmakers Arms (which sells local beer) which is round the corner from Lone Wolf.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 27, 2017)

Nice one. We've not been in Birmingham for a while, and I wasn't aware of those places when we were last up. We always look for ale-friendly pubs wherever we go


----------



## Winot (Mar 27, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> They should by rights compensate the pub owners for this fuckery. Threatening legal action when you have no case whatsoever should be treated as harassment and punished accordingly.



How do you know Brew Dog had no case?


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2017)

SaskiaJayne said:


> I think on PM I heard BD state they would offer the bar goodwill gesture of 2 free cases of vodka & half price beer supplies for a year.


Nothing so humble than a multi million company loudly announcing their 'generous' offer to a tiny business they'd just threatened. So damn punk rock!


----------



## salem (Mar 27, 2017)

Winot said:


> How do you know Brew Dog had no case?


That's the thing, they may very well have a case and with trademark law if you don't defend your trademark you can lose it - so _if_ they had a relevant trademark before these guys started then they would be doing the right thing as a business to defend it.

Of course that goes against all the punk bollocks which is the point of the thread, they're a £xxx million quid a year company using rebel language to sell their stuff.

I was in the brew dog in Camden the other week, it astounded me how little atmosphere and soul a place that busy can be. Kind of like a really small, expensive and far too bright Wetherspoons.

BTW there is an advert on the tube at the moment for some food company with a revolutionary aubergine or some shit. I can't find a pic right now though.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 27, 2017)

Winot said:


> How do you know Brew Dog had no case?



The pub had the name before their fancy booze did.


----------



## salem (Mar 27, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> The pub had the name before their fancy booze did.


Intellectual Property Office - By number results - looks like it was registered in July 2016
BrewDog 'hypocritical' in Birmingham Lone Wolf pub name row - BBC News - according to this the pub opened in January


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 27, 2017)

salem said:


> Intellectual Property Office - By number results - looks like it was registered in July 2016
> BrewDog 'hypocritical' in Birmingham Lone Wolf pub name row - BBC News - according to this the pub opened in January



It takes time to open a pub. I daresay the business name was registered some time before january.

None of which has any bearing on the ethics involved of course. You're asking for trouble if you try and trademark a piece of common venacular.


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2017)

salem said:


> Intellectual Property Office - By number results - looks like it was registered in July 2016
> BrewDog 'hypocritical' in Birmingham Lone Wolf pub name row - BBC News - according to this the pub opened in January


The Brewdog cunts are still claiming that their lawyers do just as they please. How very punk rock.  


> "It appears our lawyers did what lawyers do and got a bit carried away with themselves, asking the owners of the new 'Lone Wolf' bar to change its name, as we own the trademark.
> 
> "Now we're aware of the issue, we've set the lawyers straight and asked them to sit on the naughty step to think about what they've done."


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> It takes time to open a pub. I daresay the business name was registered some time before january.
> 
> None of which has any bearing on the ethics involved of course. You're asking for trouble if you try and trademark a piece of common venacular.


There appears to be a Lone Wolf whiskey already out there 

The Best New Beer and Spirit Collaborations


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 27, 2017)

editor said:


> The Brewdog cunts are still claiming that their lawyers do just as they please. How very punk rock.



Sitting on the naughty step is a long way from being immediately dismissed for acting without client instructions, as any sane business person would do. Still not buying it.

e2a: And the infantile language, while typical of these hipsterish businesses and their (justifiable) contempt for the intelligence of their target market, really doesn't suggest a company that's aware of the gravity of the situation. They've tried to destroy people's livelihoods ffs.


----------



## Winot (Mar 27, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> It takes time to open a pub. I daresay the business name was registered some time before january.



Registering a business name with Companies House doesn't give you any rights to stop others using that name as a trade mark. We have a first come first served rule for trade mark registration in the UK. The exception is if the pub had established sufficient common law rights through use before Brew Dog filed their application. However that is difficult to do and seems unlikely in this case (from what I've read).



SpookyFrank said:


> None of which has any bearing on the ethics involved of course. You're asking for trouble if you try and trademark a piece of common venacular.



The law says that you can't register a mark if it is non-distinctive, for example descriptive of the goods or services you are covering. Lone Wolf isn't descriptive of beer or pubs, so that bit of law isn't relevant here. It's perfecty possible to register a mark that's common vernacular as long as it isn't descriptive of the goods/services themselves.

You are correct though that the bit about blaming their lawyers is PR bollocks. The lawyers would have acted on instructions, as many have pointed out. It's unsurprising that Brew Dog are protecting their trade mark, but they have clearly screwed up on the PR and are trying to back-pedal. There are ways of doing this without being cunts, and good lawyers will adapt their tone and attitude to suit the situation. So I've no sympathy for Brew Dog here, just trying to correct a few common misunderstandings about the law.

(I do this for a living BTW)


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 27, 2017)

editor said:


> There appears to be a Lone Wolf whiskey already out there
> 
> The Best New Beer and Spirit Collaborations


I must admit, there would be a certain karmic payback if Brewdog clashed with this pre-existing drinks brand legally


----------



## The Pale King (Mar 27, 2017)

SaskiaJayne said:


> I think on PM I heard BD state they would offer the bar goodwill gesture of 2 free cases of vodka & half price beer supplies for a year.



Seems a patronising and self-serving gesture


----------



## SaskiaJayne (Mar 28, 2017)

The39thStep said:


> Why on earth would they settle for that?


They are a business. If the offer is genuine then 2 free cases of vodka & half price BD beer for a year is money in the bank for them. If their customers want BD product it would be daft to lose money by refusing to stock it on principle. It has also given the bar some free publicity. It matters not a lot whether the place is called The Wolf or The Lone Wolf. BD have made themselves look idiots but if the bar gains advantage from this then a good result. I would have thought?


----------



## YouSir (Mar 28, 2017)

SaskiaJayne said:


> They are a business. If the offer is genuine then 2 free cases of vodka & half price BD beer for a year is money in the bank for them. If their customers want BD product it would be daft to lose money by refusing to stock it on principle. It has also given the bar some free publicity. It matters not a lot whether the place is called The Wolf or The Lone Wolf. BD have made themselves look idiots but if the bar gains advantage from this then a good result. I would have thought?



By the social media reaction they'd gain more good will from their punters by rejecting any token gift from BD, loads of people saying they'll boycott their products but happily drink in the Wolf.


----------



## co-op (Mar 28, 2017)

Winot said:


> You are correct though that the bit about blaming their lawyers is PR bollocks. The lawyers would have acted on instructions, as many have pointed out.



If BD are a big enough company that they have either inhouse lawyers or a firm who they regularly use to guard their interests, surely they wouldn't need to "instruct" them on every single issue? And once that's the case, the solrs have plenty of leeway to start making decisions which might look sensible to a lawyer but look bloody stupid to everyone else.

I've had a house buy nearly screwed up by my solicitor getting into some massive barney with the other side over the fact that they didn't have FENSA certificates to cover newish windows in the house. When I managed to bypass the bloody lawyers and talk directly to the vendor it was obvious there was no problem at all and it was sorted in about 20 mins. Anyone who knows anything about houses knows that FENSA certs are utterly pointless (and anyway can be looked up online) - and this was a conveyancing solr who basically did nothing else.

My experience is never to underestimate the idiocy of lawyers, their tendency to pick counter-productive & unnecessary fights and their readiness to do so without talking to their client.


----------



## Winot (Mar 28, 2017)

co-op said:


> If BD are a big enough company that they have either inhouse lawyers or a firm who they regularly use to guard their interests, surely they wouldn't need to "instruct" them on every single issue? And once that's the case, the solrs have plenty of leeway to start making decisions which might look sensible to a lawyer but look bloody stupid to everyone else.



They might have a boiler plate letter agreed in advance but that still involves the company agreeing to it in the first place. 

In 24 years of handling exactly this type of dispute I have never heard of lawyers acting without instruction. It's a completely different business model to conveyancing. 

The most likely scenario is that the letter was cleared by the company without their really thinking through the consequences.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 28, 2017)

: “Although they wear suits and are mostly sensible folks, lawyers can sometimes go a bit crazy and forget the kind of business we are and how we behave. They are sorry for their actions and we have put them on washing up duty for a week"

Duplicitous twats- as soon as I see this kind of matey backslapping lower case corporate talk, my defences instantly go up. Ben and Jerrys popularised this informal cod dirty hippy shit years ago.


----------



## editor (Mar 28, 2017)

Winot said:


> They might have a boiler plate letter agreed in advance but that still involves the company agreeing to it in the first place.
> 
> In 24 years of handling exactly this type of dispute I have never heard of lawyers acting without instruction. It's a completely different business model to conveyancing.
> 
> The most likely scenario is that the letter was cleared by the company without their really thinking through the consequences.


The way they're trying to blame their lawyers is quite sickening. I guess they just have to take it otherwise they'll lose the contract with the Brewdog cunts.


----------



## isvicthere? (Mar 28, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> You're asking for trouble if you try and trademark a piece of common venacular.



Indeed! This fella is considering suing both parties.


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 28, 2017)

Brewdog own 'punk' according to their trigger happy lawyers. They are getting absolutely - and rightly - battered on social media about their litigation threats against genuine indies 

BrewDog threatened lawsuit against plan for bar with 'punk' in name


----------



## editor (Mar 28, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Brewdog own 'punk' according to their trigger happy lawyers. They are getting absolutely - and rightly - battered on social media about their litigation threats against genuine indies
> 
> BrewDog threatened lawsuit against plan for bar with 'punk' in name


Utter scumbags.


----------



## Winot (Mar 28, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Brewdog own 'punk' according to their trigger happy lawyers. They are getting absolutely - and rightly - battered on social media about their litigation threats against genuine indies
> 
> BrewDog threatened lawsuit against plan for bar with 'punk' in name



Tony Green, the music promoter who owns the Draft Punk bar, is quoted as saying “They can’t own punk, that’s the whole point,” ... “It’s inherited, it’s British culture.”

Interesting then that he filed his own trade mark application in an attempt to stop others from using the words Draft Punk:

Intellectual Property Office - By number results


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 28, 2017)

thats a pun on a band name for an individual product right? So a little different from trying to trademark a whole genre label


----------



## Winot (Mar 28, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> thats a pun on a band name for an individual product right? So a little different from trying to trademark a whole genre label



Yep, different. But registering Punk for beer doesn't give BD any rights to stop people using the word in relation to music. It only gives them the right to stop people using the mark in relation to beer or products/services similar to beer.

I just thought it was amusing that the David in this story was himself using the trade mark system to get himself a monopoly.


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## isvicthere? (Mar 29, 2017)

I've trademarked the definite article. From now on, anyone using the word "the" can expect to hear from my lawyers.


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## 8ball (Mar 29, 2017)

Winot said:


> In 24 years of handling exactly this type of dispute I have never heard of lawyers acting without instruction. It's a completely different business model to conveyancing.



What?  No companies employ other companies to protect their IP without meetings about every letter written?
Must admit I thought you could set these companies to 'passive mode', with just periodic updates on what they've been up to.

Then you set your PR company to 'clear-up-any-messes-as-they-arise-plausible-deniability mode'.

Still cunty, obviously, but it takes a lot of the legwork out of it.


----------



## alex_ (Mar 29, 2017)

8ball said:


> What?  No companies employ other companies to protect their IP without meetings about every letter written?
> Must admit I thought you could set these companies to 'passive mode', with just periodic updates on what they've been up to.
> 
> Then you set your PR company to 'clear-up-any-messes-as-they-arise-plausible-deniability mode'.
> ...



I can imagine the first basic threatening letter being part of a standardised service you pay x k per year for, I can't imagine all the follow up being done without permission - otherwise you could get the most enormous bill you had no idea was coming.

You could even find yourself paying to send threatening letters to yourself.

It's not like bespoke lawyers letters are cheap.

Alex


----------



## ViolentPanda (Mar 29, 2017)

isvicthere? said:


> Indeed! This fella is considering suing both parties.



But will hopefully settle on rending them limb-from-limb, instead.


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## William of Walworth (Mar 29, 2017)

isvicthere? said:


> I've trademarked the definite article. From now on, anyone using the word "the" can expect to hear form my lawyers.


----------



## MikeMcc (Mar 30, 2017)

I was quite surprised when I looked up their history. I'd assumed they were a US brand, I'd seen them across in the US long before I saw them in the UK.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 30, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


>


Ooh, the ltd double album, good shout!


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Mar 30, 2017)

Smokeandsteam said:


> Brewdog own 'punk' according to their trigger happy lawyers. They are getting absolutely - and rightly - battered on social media about their litigation threats against genuine indies
> 
> BrewDog threatened lawsuit against plan for bar with 'punk' in name


I wondered what this was about.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 30, 2017)

I have never consciously chosen to drink brewdog, I will in future ensure that I make a conscious decision not to buy their output. When in think of the Brewdog brand now, I see a Richard Branson style of toothy matey face leering at me, urgh


----------



## pogofish (Mar 30, 2017)

They have just hired the Stranglers to play their AGM in a couple of weeks.


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2017)

pogofish said:


> They have just hired the Stranglers to play their AGM in a couple of weeks.


Old punk rockers (well, half the band) at a corporate bash for a bunch of capitalists who think they're punk. You couldn't make it up.


----------



## NoXion (Mar 30, 2017)

I drunk a small bottle of BrewDog IPA once. It wasn't awful, but as far as I can remember it was nothing special either. Just drinkable. This was before I heard of any of their shenanigans. Since I can get better stuff from companies that aren't trying to project an image of being edgy rebels, it's no skin off my nose if I avoid them in the future.


----------



## isvicthere? (Mar 30, 2017)

editor said:


> Old punk rockers (well, half the band) at a corporate bash for a bunch of capitalists who think they're punk. You couldn't make it up.



That reminds me of when I went to see a (really good) Who tribute band in Bow, and there were a few straight-from-the-office City boys there who seemed to think their work suits made them 'mod'.


----------



## YouSir (Mar 30, 2017)

BrewDog have posted up a whiny defence about how wrong it is to steal their trademarks. Evidently given up on the 'we're too nice to sue people' angle.


----------



## isvicthere? (Mar 30, 2017)

YouSir said:


> BrewDog have posted up a whiny defence about how wrong it is to steal their trademarks. Evidently given up on the 'we're too nice to sue people' angle.



Link please!


----------



## YouSir (Mar 30, 2017)

isvicthere? said:


> Link please!



PLEASE DON'T STEAL OUR TRADEMARKS


----------



## YouSir (Mar 30, 2017)

YouSir said:


> PLEASE DON'T STEAL OUR TRADEMARKS



Also, 100% positive comments on that post, which doesn't seem all that likely to me. And maintaining the line that the threats to the pub were all out of their hands.


----------



## isvicthere? (Mar 30, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Also, 100% positive comments on that post, which doesn't seem all that likely to me. And maintaining the line that the threats to the pub were all out of their hands.



Indeed. The most irritating one was, "Haters gonna hate." 

Yeah, right! If you are opposed to grubby capitalists acting in a bullying way, you are a "hater".

As punk band (can we still call them that?) the Clash said: "Hate and war/the only thing we got today".


----------



## DotCommunist (Mar 30, 2017)

editor said:


> Old punk rockers (well, half the band) at a corporate bash for a bunch of capitalists who think they're punk. You couldn't make it up.


no more heroes


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2017)

YouSir said:


> Also, 100% positive comments on that post, which doesn't seem all that likely to me. And maintaining the line that the threats to the pub were all out of their hands.


Probably all made up anyway. They really are showing themselves to be an utterly despicable company


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2017)

Just listen to the cunts: 


> Almost all companies always look to enforce trademarks, whereas at BrewDog we should take the view to only enforce if something really detrimental to our business is happening. And here, I do not think that was the case. As soon as I found out, I reversed the decision and offered to cover all of the costs of the bar. I also invited them up to Ellon to make their own gin with us. This is a mistake that hurt a lot; but like all mistakes, it made us better. This will not happen again.
> 
> All companies make mistakes, and we fixed this one quickly, openly and honestly.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 30, 2017)

non supportive comments do not appear


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## killer b (Mar 30, 2017)

_We own the 'punk' trademark for beer_


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## Dogsauce (Mar 30, 2017)

I'm not sure why anyone is discussing any of this anyway, surely every decent human being decided to boycott them years back for being creepy misogynistic pricks?


----------



## editor (Mar 30, 2017)

Dogsauce said:


> I'm not sure why anyone is discussing any of this anyway, surely every decent human being decided to boycott them years back for being creepy misogynistic pricks?


I've never bought a single one of their beers. Never will. Vile creeps.


----------



## William of Walworth (Mar 30, 2017)

I have, but years ago, and then only in slightly affordable cans of Punk IPA. Which is OK -- partly because the cans are disguisable as a soft drink at any busy, over securitised city-streets type festival 

But their 'Punk' is nothing at all special, and only worth thinking about, back then, if you bought it from Sainsburys etc. (On deals  )

Exception to the cans-only thing above being our misjudged (but ultrabrief) visit to their insanely priced place in Camden about 8 years ago.

Since then we've boycotted their Bristol (Baldwin Street) and Cardiff (Westgate Street) places.

Streetnames only supplied for ease of avoidance 

Boycott : Firstly on price grounds alone, and now, additionally,  on the grounds of 'increasingly obviously absolute fucking wankers' grounds.


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## William of Walworth (Mar 30, 2017)

At least their 'pubs' take overmoneyed 'hipster' twats away from normal places with better beer 

Our mate's yer main brewer** who's in Manchester often. He only went to their new Manc place *once*  and would agree with all the above sentiments here, if he was an Urban 

** at Tatton. Counter-Brewdog marketing. Ban me now editor


----------



## treelover (Mar 31, 2017)

ViolentPanda said:


> But will hopefully settle on rending them limb-from-limb, instead.



Impressive creatures.


----------



## treelover (Mar 31, 2017)

editor said:


> Old punk rockers (well, half the band) at a corporate bash for a bunch of capitalists who think they're punk. You couldn't make it up.



Wasn't the Drummer a Tory anyway?


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 31, 2017)

From an IP point of view I find it curious that they are valuing their trademarks more than their recipes, which could be considered trade secrets had they not put them in the public domain. Trade secrets in my experience are considerably rarer.

Also, there is a difference between trying to trademark a word on its own and a logo using that word.

I'm also highly sceptical of those blog post comments. Common sense approach to IP my arse...


----------



## Smokeandsteam (Mar 31, 2017)

The whinging self pity in that statement is truly pathetic. 

And yes haters do hate. But as Brewdog is learning in Birmingham they also boycott their shitty bar and laugh at their recuperative radicalism and are choosing to support genuinely independent bars instead.


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## mwgdrwg (Mar 31, 2017)

I drink in a lot of independent bars whenever I'm Manchester, and I drink a lot of different craft ales.

Brewdog always has some of the best beer without doubt imho.


----------



## chilango (Mar 31, 2017)

Sadly, BrewDog make one of the few remotely palatable alcohol-free "beers" that is readily available. So, I'm stuck with drinking it for the foreseeable.


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## chilango (Mar 31, 2017)

Also, all businesses operating within capitalism are fundamentally exploitative. It's just a matter of degree and presentation*. Don't kid yerselves that "that nice little independent" isn't also going to reach the point where "the bottom line" clashes with your ethics. 

*which is where where BrewDog are excelling at coming across badly.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 31, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> From an IP point of view I find it curious that they are valuing their trademarks more than their recipes, which could be considered trade secrets had they not put them in the public domain. Trade secrets in my experience are considerably rarer.
> 
> Also, there is a difference between trying to trademark a word on its own and a logo using that word.
> 
> I'm also highly sceptical of those blog post comments. Common sense approach to IP my arse...



The recipe for beer has been widely known for some time now.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 31, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> I drink in a lot of independent bars whenever I'm Manchester, and I drink a lot of different craft ales.
> 
> Brewdog always has some of the best beer without doubt imho.



Repeating the phrase 'craft ale' is doing the marketing twunts' work for them. Craft is not an adjective. The only difference between 'craft ale' and 'ale' is the mark up.


----------



## The Pale King (Mar 31, 2017)

DotCommunist said:


> no more heroes



Nor Shakespearoes


----------



## not-bono-ever (Mar 31, 2017)

equationgirl said:


> From an IP point of view I find it curious that they are valuing their trademarks more than their recipes, which could be considered trade secrets had they not put them in the public domain. Trade secrets in my experience are considerably rarer.
> 
> Also, there is a difference between trying to trademark a word on its own and a logo using that word.
> 
> I'm also highly sceptical of those blog post comments. Common sense approach to IP my arse...


 
It is likely that they are looking towards a brand francising operation as part of their expansion programme - the local shit produced in gambia or Turkmenistan doesnt matter really, the brand being glued upon it however does. rather like Donald Trump does with his hotels.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 31, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Repeating the phrase 'craft ale' is doing the marketing twunts' work for them. Craft is not an adjective. The only difference between 'craft ale' and 'ale' is the mark up.



I drink plenty of "real" ale, it tastes completely different to craft ales which are generally the hoppy american style ones.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 31, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> I drink plenty of "real" ale, it tastes completely different to craft ales which are generally the hoppy american style ones.



Craft ale doesn't taste like anything because it doesn't exist. Unless you happen to be yeast, you can't 'craft' a beer. And even if you could, the correct way to describe the beer so produced would be 'craft_ed_ ale'. 

Putting beer in tiny cans does not make it special. Drinking it does not make you special. It makes you a credulous fool.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 31, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Craft ale doesn't taste like anything because it doesn't exist. Unless you happen to be yeast, you can't 'craft' a beer. And even if you could, the correct way to describe the beer so produced would be 'craft_ed_ ale'.
> 
> Putting beer in tiny cans does not make it special. Drinking it does not make you special. It makes you a credulous fool.



I honestly could't give a toss what it's called or supplied in. I like the taste of it, in glasses in pubs, when I feel like some.


----------



## isvicthere? (Mar 31, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Craft ale doesn't taste like anything because it doesn't exist. Unless you happen to be yeast, you can't 'craft' a beer. And even if you could, the correct way to describe the beer so produced would be 'craft_ed_ ale'.
> 
> Putting beer in tiny cans does not make it special. Drinking it does not make you special. It makes you a credulous fool.



It's almost as if those hipsters, who think "craft" ale makes them cool, are actually twats.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Mar 31, 2017)

...and in about 15 minutes I'm going to be enjoying some amazing "Real" Ale. Brewed down a local brewery down the road (Cwrw Llŷn Cyf – Llŷn Independent Brewery  –  Producers of real taste and legendary ales).


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## mwgdrwg (Mar 31, 2017)

isvicthere? said:


> It's almost as if those hipsters, who think "craft" ale makes them cool, are actually twats.



I'm no hipster, I just like beer!


----------



## isvicthere? (Mar 31, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> I'm no hipster, I just like beer!



Who said you were?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Mar 31, 2017)

mwgdrwg said:


> I'm no hipster, I just like beer!



Then you should stand against those who try to cheapen it with their gimcrack marketing bullshit.

e2a: And the term 'craft ale' implies that non-craft ale is inferior, produced in a slapdash way by uncaring amateurs. This is a bit of an insult to well-established brewers who have been working hard to make good beer since long before these crafty cunts were even a twinkle in a hedge fund's eye.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 31, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> The recipe for beer has been widely known for some time now.


Generic beer yes. Their bespoke fancy beers - or indeed those of any brewer from the smallest producer to the likes of anheuser bunch - no. It's not the ingredients,  it's the whole process. That's why trade secrets are so  valuable.


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## nastybobby (Apr 2, 2017)

Cease and desist: an open letter to Brewdog from Punk.  It has recently come to light that the beer company have trade marked the word 'punk' and are threatening legal action against people using that word. Punks around the world have something to say about that....?   This is an open letter to Brewdog from the global punk community.


The 'global punk community' have sent these wankers a cease and desist letter.


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## killer b (Apr 2, 2017)

Like it or not, the marketing concept of 'craft beer' has done huge amounts to popularise small scale brewers of all types to an audience who had previously been mostly uninterested. It's been a while since I had a proper look at the figures, but cask beer was the only growing section of the market when I last looked (a quick scan of some more up to date figures suggest this is still the case). 

Craft beer houses all have wide selections of more established European & English beers which newly adventurous drinkers will end up drinking where they wouldn't before. In the round, it's been a positive development for the drinking scene in the UK IMO.


----------



## editor (Apr 2, 2017)

killer b said:


> Like it or not, the marketing concept of 'craft beer' has done huge amounts to popularise small scale brewers of all types to an audience who had previously been mostly uninterested. It's been a while since I had a proper look at the figures, but cask beer was the only growing section of the market when I last looked (a quick scan of some more up to date figures suggest this is still the case).
> 
> Craft beer houses all have wide selections of more established European & English beers which newly adventurous drinkers will end up drinking where they wouldn't before. In the round, it's been a positive development for the drinking scene in the UK IMO.


Of course. But ending up with a dominant bunch of hypocritical cunts like BrewDog heading up the scene isn't so good.


----------



## killer b (Apr 2, 2017)

No, I agree - this page seems to have descended into generic craft beer/hipster bashing rather than being specific to brewdog though.


----------



## killer b (Apr 2, 2017)

(sorry, the last page).


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## William of Walworth (Apr 2, 2017)

There's no such thing as craft beer -- the term has no specifically identifiable meaning. 

That's been my position for a while anyway. But unfortunately some others in CAMRA circles disagree


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 2, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Craft ale doesn't taste like anything because it doesn't exist. Unless you happen to be yeast, you can't 'craft' a beer. And even if you could, the correct way to describe the beer so produced would be 'craft_ed_ ale'.
> 
> Putting beer in tiny cans does not make it special. Drinking it does not make you special. It makes you a credulous fool.



It does actually taste good though.


----------



## alex_ (Apr 3, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> It does actually taste good though.



The little tins of moor taste fantastic and meet the definition of real ale too.

Definition of craft beer - Craft Brewer


----------



## SpookyFrank (Apr 3, 2017)

killer b said:


> Like it or not, the marketing concept of 'craft beer' has done huge amounts to popularise small scale brewers of all types to an audience who had previously been mostly uninterested. It's been a while since I had a proper look at the figures, but cask beer was the only growing section of the market when I last looked (a quick scan of some more up to date figures suggest this is still the case).
> 
> Craft beer houses all have wide selections of more established European & English beers which newly adventurous drinkers will end up drinking where they wouldn't before. In the round, it's been a positive development for the drinking scene in the UK IMO.



Much 'craft ale' isn't even cask though. It's usually from a keg or sold in a can. If I've made the effort to put clothes on, leave the house and walk all the way to the pub, and if I'm in a position to pay pub prices, then I'm not drinking out of a fucking can.


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## killer b (Apr 3, 2017)

I know. That wasn't my point - my point was that it's been a positive development for small brewers.


----------



## alex_ (Apr 3, 2017)

killer b said:


> I know. That wasn't my point - my point was that it's been a positive development for small brewers.



I think the uk has gone from 400 breweries total in 1986, to the total number of uk breweries increasing by 400 in 2011 to 2013, to 1700 total in 2016.

data here Turnip Ale: Success?: The Number of New Breweries in the UK 1993-2013

So massive growth in the last 10 years, craft is a big part of this.

Alex


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 3, 2017)

SpookyFrank said:


> Much 'craft ale' isn't even cask though. It's usually from a keg or sold in a can. If I've made the effort to put clothes on, leave the house and walk all the way to the pub, and if I'm in a position to pay pub prices, then I'm not drinking out of a fucking can.



Turns out you can make proper beer with decent ingredients and then serve it in different ways. The increase in variety of types we've got in the last 10 years is fantastic.


----------



## alex_ (Apr 3, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Turns out you can make proper beer with decent ingredients and then serve it in different ways. The increase in variety of types we've got in the last 10 years is fantastic.



And actually a part of this will be because the shelf life of keg is longer than cask, and therefore places can stock a larger range than if they were just selling cask.

Alex


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## isvicthere? (Apr 3, 2017)

I'm staying for a few days in the New Forest. Gale's HSB pisses all over any "craft" bollocks.


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## William of Walworth (Apr 3, 2017)

alex_ said:


> The little tins of moor taste fantastic and meet the definition of real ale too.
> 
> Definition of craft beer - Craft Brewer



Moor of Bristol do fantastic beer, and they're not up themselves wankers either (we visited them on a recent Bristol trip, and they were really nice. and enthusiastic). Just drawing the contrast with Brewdog really.


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## billy_bob (Apr 3, 2017)

Agree. There's half a dozen breweries within delivery distance from me which do much nicer beer than brew dog, and they're just quietly getting on with being properly small and independent instead of just trying to market themselves like they are.


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## belboid (Apr 3, 2017)

Not sure why brew dog are credited at all with reviving/creating the craft/small brewery trend. They took the main brewer from Thornbridge, who had been creating their (far nicer) ales for years. All they did was added marketing. 

Still, that's modern capitalism I guess, the product is almost irrelevant, only the imagined lifestyle that goes with it counts.


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## editor (Apr 3, 2017)

killer b said:


> I know. That wasn't my point - my point was that it's been a positive development for small brewers.


They like to view themselves this way, but there's nothing 'punk' or underdog about Brewdog: they're just another cash raking bunch of capitalists out of fill their fat pockets, and smartly using all the right buzzwords to market their average product.

The only thing punk about them is they way they reflect the immediate post-punk era where majors re-positioned themselves to appear more like indies. So they should really be described as post-punk cash-in outfit, bearing almost none of the spirit, style or ethos of punk. They're just all style and posturing with zero substance.


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## killer b (Apr 3, 2017)

I'm not talking about brewdog, like I just said.


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## billy_bob (Apr 3, 2017)

editor said:


> They like to view themselves this way, but there's nothing 'punk' or underdog about Brewdog: they're just another cash raking bunch of capitalists out of fill their fat pockets, and smartly using all the right buzzwords to market their average product.
> 
> The only thing punk about them is they way they reflect the immediate post-punk era where majors re-positioned themselves to appear more like indies. So they should really be described as post-punk cash-in outfit, bearing almost none of the spirit, style or ethos of punk. They're just all style and posturing with zero substance.



"Postcard-Punk IPA"


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## hash tag (Apr 3, 2017)

I have just looked at their Wiki entry which tells me they do keg beer as well as bottles and cans. They are a massive (multinational)  brewery don't you know. Personally I wouldn't give you tuppence for one of their tins or bottles of fiz. 
I'm still out on what craft beer is. All I know is that I have sambrooks almost next door to me Sambrook's Brewery.
Unfortunately, I see they market themselves as craft brewers. That said Wandle and the pale ale are damn fine ales


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## killer b (Apr 3, 2017)

Craft beers are often in kegs these days hashtag - it's often a sore point with CAMRA traditionalist, but in and of itself isn't the same black mark it once was. If you're serving a cold, fizzy american style IPA or continental style beer then a handpull isn't appropriate anyway.


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## hash tag (Apr 3, 2017)

I'm just old and like my traditional style ale. I hold no truck with all this modern trendy stuff. I bet our Nige makes a point of drinking a pint of craft!


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## chilango (Apr 3, 2017)

It isn't just about super hoppy Sierra Nevada clones either. Stuff like saisons and sours are more widely available now.

That said it's a bit shit that every chain pub with Punk IPA in the fridge is shoving "craft beers" on its signage.

All academic for me as I've (almost) given up anyway.


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## killer b (Apr 3, 2017)

chilango said:


> All academic for me as I've (almost) given up anyway.


Ha, yes - I have little skin in this game too. I haven't had a beer, craft or otherwise, for 4 years. 

15 years of CAMRA membership is difficult to shake off...


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## chilango (Apr 3, 2017)

killer b said:


> Ha, yes - I have little skin in this game too. I haven't had a beer, craft or otherwise, for 4 years.
> 
> 15 years of CAMRA membership is difficult to shake off...



Yeah


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## killer b (Apr 3, 2017)

(that said I did have a half of Nanny State on your recommendation the other week, and found it fairly basic. I won't be bothering again)


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## chilango (Apr 3, 2017)

killer b said:


> (that said I did have a half of Nanny State on your recommendation the other week, and found it fairly basic. I won't be bothering again)



It is just a Becks Blues with a squirt of artificial hops flavour in it.

But that is still better than the alternatives anywhere I'm normally at.


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## editor (Apr 3, 2017)

chilango said:


> It isn't just about super hoppy Sierra Nevada clones either. Stuff like saisons and sours are more widely available now.
> 
> That said it's a bit shit that every chain pub with Punk IPA in the fridge is shoving "craft beers" on its signage.
> 
> All academic for me as I've (almost) given up anyway.


Punk IPA is now available on Easy Jet flights. So fucking alternative.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 4, 2017)

editor said:


> Punk IPA is now available on Easy Jet flights. So fucking alternative.



If it's between them and most of the stuff made by Inbev then I'd choose the BrewDog any day. Not because they are rebel or alternative or any of that, but they do actually make nice beer. Sure there are plenty of great small brewers I'd choose any day, but the fact that we can now get something approaching a decent beer on an easy jet flight shows the revival of beer that tastes of something. Sales from the big companies are actually falling in most of their developed markets, which of course means they will be looking for more companies to buy.


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## 8ball (Apr 4, 2017)

chilango said:


> It is just a Becks Blues with a squirt of artificial hops flavour in it.



It's way better than that - it's definitely the best alcohol free beer I've tasted (I did extensive sampling when I first went on warfarin, before I said 'fuck it' and carried on drinking anyway).
Good to see Brewdog getting a kicking over their attempt to trademark 'punk', mind.


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## isvicthere? (Apr 4, 2017)

Now they've booked this band, Sundara Karma, for one of their bashes.

A band with "karma" in their name? "Punk" as fuck, NOT!


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## editor (Apr 4, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> If it's between them and most of the stuff made by Inbev then I'd choose the BrewDog any day. Not because they are rebel or alternative or any of that, but they do actually make nice beer. Sure there are plenty of great small brewers I'd choose any day, but the fact that we can now get something approaching a decent beer on an easy jet flight shows the revival of beer that tastes of something. Sales from the big companies are actually falling in most of their developed markets, which of course means they will be looking for more companies to buy.


I'll never buy Brew Dog whatever it tastes like.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 4, 2017)

editor said:


> I'll never buy Brew Dog whatever it tastes like.



Is Inbev ok?


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## editor (Apr 4, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Is Inbev ok?


I don't know what that is, sorry.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 4, 2017)

I put the link in the last post. They are a huge multi national company who make a vast number of beers that people recognise.


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## NoXion (Apr 4, 2017)

Given the choice between BrewDog and InBev, could I have a glass of wine instead?


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## hash tag (Apr 4, 2017)

Inbev is just more fizzy shite in my book, little difference between the two.


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## killer b (Apr 4, 2017)

even leffe?


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## editor (Apr 4, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> I put the link in the last post. They are a huge multi national company who make a vast number of beers that people recognise.


I doubt if they'd offend me as much as the sexist, bullying,  cash raking Brewdog cunts cashing in on punk's legacy.


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## hash tag (Apr 4, 2017)

even Leffe.


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## NoXion (Apr 4, 2017)

I like Leffe but I doubt it gets served on many airliners.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 5, 2017)

editor said:


> I doubt if they'd offend me as much as the sexist, bullying,  cash raking Brewdog cunts cashing in on punk's legacy.



If you Google sexist beer ads, most of the examples are brands owned my InBev and the ones your most likely to find outside of a decent pub. Its no excuse for BrewDog in the slightest, just a sad reflection of how hard boycotting brands for ethical reasons can be.


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## editor (Apr 5, 2017)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> If you Google sexist beer ads, most of the examples are brands owned my InBev and the ones your most likely to find outside of a decent pub. Its no excuse for BrewDog in the slightest, just a sad reflection of how hard boycotting brands for ethical reasons can be.


With Brewdog it's personal.


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## rutabowa (Apr 5, 2017)

I must admit I partly added the bands I'm in to this list just cos I wanted to appear alongside the Spits.

Cease and desist: an open letter to Brewdog from Punk.  It has recently come to light that the beer company have trade marked the word 'punk' and are threatening legal action against people using that word. Punks around the world have something to say about that....?   This is an open letter to Brewdog from the global punk community.


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## William of Walworth (Apr 5, 2017)

NoXion said:


> Given the choice between BrewDog and InBev, could I have a glass of wine instead?




A bottle of water even!!


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## hash tag (Apr 5, 2017)

Bottles of water  Ethically, dreadfull. Use tap water and reuseable bottles.
As for sexist ads; Iron Bru take some beating!


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## William of Walworth (Apr 6, 2017)

hash tag said:


> Bottles of water  Ethically, dreadfull. Use tap water and reuseable bottles.



Oh yes I know (I re-use all the time, with tap water, at festivals etc). But we are talking _relative_ dreadfulness here


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## stockwelljonny (Apr 9, 2017)

*Brewdog raises £100m from American private equity firm*

Brewdog, the independent Scottish brewery, has raised £100m from TSG Consumer Partners, the American private equity firm.

In a message to shareholders on Saturday, the beer maker said TSG had acquired 22 per cent of the company. Brewdog said the transaction had given it a £1bn enterprise value.

“TSG has acquired approximately 22% of the company in a transaction where £100m in proceeds went into the Company for continued expansion and the balance to create early shareholder equity in a transaction that valued Brewdog plc at £1billion enterprise value,” the message said. “The deal is designed to deliver long term capital with 10 year time horizon.”

Brew dog was founded by James Watt and Martin Dickie in 2007 and is known for its brash marketing campaigns. Until now it has relied heavily on crowdfunding.

Watt and Dickie have said they would never sell the company to a multinational brewery, or as they put it: “a monolithic purveyor of industrial beer”. Private equity companies, on the other hand? Not so bad it seems.

A spokesperson for TSG did not immediately respond to a request for comment. A spokesperson for Brewdog did not immediately comment.

Update, April 9: According to The Sunday Times, TSG is “also buying £113m of shares from existing investors”, which brings the total value of the deal to £213m:

The founders are expected to bag the bulk of the bonanza. Yesterday, BrewDog said Watt’s stake would reduce from 35% to 25% and Dickie’s holding from 30% to 22%.


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## salem (Apr 9, 2017)

Private Equity for Punks®


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## not-bono-ever (Apr 9, 2017)

TSG are the people who brough you vitamin water.


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## flickerx (Apr 9, 2017)

Home - Anarchy Brew Co.

Saw an ad for this in a magazine at the airport yesterday. "Canarchy in the UK" was the slogan.


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## flickerx (Apr 9, 2017)

Sorry if it's been posted already on the thread.


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## William of Walworth (Apr 9, 2017)

Anarchy's beers tend to be


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## bendeus (Apr 9, 2017)

flickerx said:


> Home - Anarchy Brew Co.
> 
> Saw an ad for this in a magazine at the airport yesterday. "Canarchy in the UK" was the slogan.


It can only be a matter of time before the more hardcore punks of the brew movement splinter towards Oi! Brew, with classic and more authentic craft beers including 'Porter Breakout'  and 'We're the Hopligans'


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Apr 9, 2017)

bendeus said:


> It can only be a matter of time before the more hardcore punks of the brew movement splinter towards Oi! Brew, with classic and more authentic craft beers including 'Porter Breakout'  and 'We're the Hopligans'



I'm brewing beer at the moment (none commercialy). I blatantly need to come this thread for name ideas.


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## purves grundy (Apr 9, 2017)

bendeus said:


> It can only be a matter of time before the more hardcore punks of the brew movement splinter towards Oi! Brew, with classic and more authentic craft beers including 'Porter Breakout'  and 'We're the Hopligans'


I'm looking forward to the straight edge lads releasing their non-alcoholic alternatives.


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## Raheem (Apr 9, 2017)

bendeus said:


> It can only be a matter of time before the more hardcore punks of the brew movement splinter towards Oi! Brew, with classic and more authentic craft beers including 'Porter Breakout'  and 'We're the Hopligans'



Cocktail recipe:

2 Tone

1 part Punk IPA
1 part Reggae Reggae Sauce


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## Wolveryeti (Apr 10, 2017)

Brewdog sell 22% of their firm to a private equity house for £213m.

Punkest thing ever.

The terms of the sale are pretty interesting. The private equity house's investment is in the form of 'preference shares' (a loan by any other name). These shares pay an eyewatering 18% before other shareholders get anything. 'Equity punks' can only sell 15% of their stake and only £113m of the acquisition price was earmarked for buying these shares. This represents profit to them but not anything like what they could have got if they were normal, listed shares. 

The move is in fact a huge dilution of existing shareholders' rights. The founders have basically cashed out leaving a huge millstone around the company' future profitability. And walked away with £100m.


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## ViolentPanda (Apr 10, 2017)

purves grundy said:


> I'm looking forward to the straight edge lads releasing their non-alcoholic alternatives.



Bet the glasses will be plastic, just so that you can't stab the pompous, self-righteous, self-denying, preachy cunts with their broken remnants, too!


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## not-bono-ever (Apr 10, 2017)

This will be franchised and licenced to fuck across the globe

"“Ever since we first started this journey in Martin’s mum’s garage, BrewDog has existed to make other people as passionate about great craft beer as we are,” said Watt"

I don't care if they started this to make money, pretty any of us in this situation would snatch the cash and fuck off to the caribbean on the next superyacht. but the faux humble branson lite mealy mouthed toss that is dripping out, especially toss that uses the word passionate, does irk one.


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## pogofish (Apr 10, 2017)

Wolveryeti said:


> The move is in fact a huge dilution of existing shareholders' rights. The founders have basically cashed out leaving a huge millstone around the company' future profitability. And walked away with £100m.




From what I'm being told about their AGM at the weekend is that that by 4pm, the attending shareholders would have voted for just about anything except more beer because they were so pissed!

I've had to let the original shareholder here go home for the rest of the day because he's still so obviously suffering an almighty hangover - and he's a big beery lad, well used to a good bucket!


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## equationgirl (Apr 10, 2017)

Not very punk,  is it,  to sell their equity to a US private equity firm?  Of course,  they were never in it for the money...


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## not-bono-ever (Apr 12, 2017)

Pete Brown: Why I can't get too excited about BrewDog's big 'sell out'

An advertising exec writes....


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## Bahnhof Strasse (Apr 12, 2017)

*Scrumpy-making farmer not 'inspired by Brew Dog'*

*A FARMER whose bright orange cider makes you shit yourself is not inspired by Brew Dog, he has confirmed.

Arable farmer and part-time cider maker Tom Logan said he has no plans to build up and then sell his drinks-making business, and does not have a brand other than a hand-made sign on the roadside that says ‘Scrumpy’.


He said: “We get the apples, make the cider, then put it in plastic petrol-type containers, some of which have previously had petrol in.

“We have no shareholders because I only take cash, which goes straight in my pocket. The price varies depending on my mood. Sometime I take £25 a week.

“Personally I don’t drink our cider because it’s fucking horrible and apparently it can make you go blind, but some people seem to like it. Christ knows why.

“We don’t really have a business model other than ‘sell cider’. I don’t have a handsome youthful face, tattoos, or a friendly welcoming grin that says ‘please like me’.

“If you want cider, I have cider. Otherwise, stay away.”

He added: “Craft beer is for dickheads.”
*


----------



## gawkrodger (Apr 12, 2017)

a mate writes


A BrewDog investor's tale: How the 'punk' dream faded to be replaced with wads of cash from chaos


----------



## editor (Apr 12, 2017)

gawkrodger said:


> A BrewDog investor's tale: How the 'punk' dream faded to be replaced with wads of cash from chaos


Spot on: 


> Then, in the last few months, things really started to go sour: friends complained on social media about being asked to leave BrewDog in Glasgow because of their attire: they were punks, and dressed as such.
> 
> A story about the legal action brought against a small bar in Birmingham that happened to share the same name – Lone Wolf – as a vodka BrewDog had yet to bring to market went viral.
> 
> And, finally, the last straw: BrewDog had threatened a small bar wanting to call itself Draft Punk, claiming intellectual ownership of the term 'punk'.


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## William of Walworth (Apr 12, 2017)

Bahnhof Strasse said:
			
		

> *A FARMER whose bright orange cider makes you shit yourself is not inspired by Brew Dog*



No connection withThatchers Cheddar Valley then ...


----------



## J Ed (Apr 13, 2017)

Brewdog are expanding into the US apparently, which is something I don't really get. Now that they've 'sold out' on even the very modest small shareholder capitalism thing that was central to their marketing, what are they selling themselves on exactly? There are plenty of US breweries, some very prominent, that are actually run as worker co-operatives. In terms of the less important aspect, the beer itself, is there a niche in the US for a British company whose brewing technique was to brew US-style IPAs at a time when they were less prominent in Britain? 

It all seems a bit selling coal to Newcastle, then again bizarrely Newcastle Brown Ale actually does well in the US.


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## phillm (Apr 13, 2017)

WTF - their book is no 1 on the Amazon Anarchism book list.

Business for Punks: Break All the Rules - the BrewDog Way: Amazon.co.uk: James Watt: 9780241290118: Books

I like this comment about James Watt  ;







_James Watt is a man full of certainties. In fact, if you don't do things the James Watt way you are a fool, imbecile, idiot, stupid muppet, clown or moron - and those are just the polite words he uses. If you don't do things the James Watt way and you happen to work for a large company and wear a suit you are a 'corporate android'. No ifs and buts, that's just how things are.

Aside from the know-it-all arrogance - he quotes famous people like Winston Churchill, George Bernard Shaw and Kurt Cobain, but quotes himself at the end of each chapter in larger, white on black characters - there are also a number of contradictions in the book.

For instance, he tells you right at the beginning to forget about business plans and calls an acquaintance of his who worked for too long on his plan a 'number crunching clown'. Later in the book, whilst discussing financial controls, he goes to great lengths to extol the virtues of being a number crunching clown. He dislikes corporate androids, but his description of Brewdog's recruitment process appears to amount to a search for several hundred James Watt clones; a breed of super-andriods, it seemed to me. Furthermore his dislike of all things corporate does not exclude running KPI's on absolutely everything that can be measured. Finally, he screams at his audience to always be the authentic you, then uses American spellings throughout, as well as the inevitable kick-donkey expression._


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## phillm (Apr 13, 2017)

*WORLD U75 PREMIER - A DECADE OF DOG*


----------



## YouSir (Apr 13, 2017)

J Ed said:


> Brewdog are expanding into the US apparently, which is something I don't really get. Now that they've 'sold out' on even the very modest small shareholder capitalism thing that was central to their marketing, what are they selling themselves on exactly? There are plenty of US breweries, some very prominent, that are actually run as worker co-operatives. In terms of the less important aspect, the beer itself, is there a niche in the US for a British company whose brewing technique was to brew US-style IPAs at a time when they were less prominent in Britain?
> 
> It all seems a bit selling coal to Newcastle, then again bizarrely Newcastle Brown Ale actually does well in the US.



He'll be flogging a British Punk 'ethos' no doubt, on the assumption that it won't be as blatantly transparent there yet as it is here. Beer is a side note to branding.


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## editor (Apr 13, 2017)

phillm said:


> *WORLD U75 PREMIER - A DECADE OF DOG*


Like a Tory party political broadcast. I wonder if this is timed to hit back at all their negative PR?


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## equationgirl (Apr 14, 2017)

editor said:


> Like a Tory party political broadcast. I wonder if this is timed to hit back at all their negative PR?


I would be surprised if it wasn't.


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## MrSki (May 14, 2017)

William of Walworth said:


> No connection withThatchers Cheddar Valley then ...


Well I had a couple of Cheddar valleys & got the shits.


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## hash tag (Sep 1, 2017)

This is proper craft beer like and certainly a way of keeping children away from it at just £13+ per pint in a trendy London pub.

London pub criticised for charging more than £13 for a pint


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## killer b (Sep 1, 2017)

It's a 9% beer made by a small(ish) brewer - isn't that what you'd expect to pay in London? They shouldn't be selling it by the pint anyway.


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## killer b (Sep 1, 2017)

_How much for a pint of wine, barkeep? £20? That's outrageous, Carling is only £4.20!_


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## hash tag (Sep 1, 2017)

£20 for a cheap small glass of wine.


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## killer b (Sep 1, 2017)

9% is barley wine - it's a higher duty rate, and takes more ingredients and resources to make than a 4% beer. It isn't cheap, but nor is it _that_ outrageous - a pint of normal strength craft beer has often been over a fiver since before I quit drinking 4 years ago.

As with most things, with beer you have a choice to make - you can have something mass produced out of shit quality ingredients for cheap (or often not so cheap), or you can have something made in smaller batches by skilled people out of good quality ingredients and you pay more money. 

Sure there's price gougers, but the rate of pub closures in the UK (29 a week) suggests margins aren't that generous.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 1, 2017)

Yeah, seems a bit odd that people get worked up about this sort of thing (if anyone is) just buy something else.  It's probably just a hipster marketing trick though.


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## Tom A (Sep 5, 2017)

In Manchester I take it as a given that any pint of craft beer from a small brewery is usually going to coast at least £7.


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## Pickman's model (Sep 5, 2017)

killer b said:


> It's a 9% beer made by a small(ish) brewer - isn't that what you'd expect to pay in London? They shouldn't be selling it by the pint anyway.


i remember years back having a pint of barley wine in a pub, didn't think much of it at the time. but now you bring it to mind...

anyway i didn't pay for it.


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## ViolentPanda (Sep 6, 2017)

Pickman's model said:


> i remember years back having a pint of barley wine in a pub, didn't think much of it at the time. but now you bring it to mind...
> 
> anyway i didn't pay for it.



Order one next time you're having a drink with yer pa ( Spymaster ).  He HATES it when people go for double bubble on his round!


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## campanula (Sep 6, 2017)

O barley wine - my preferred tipple throughout my teens, 20s and 30s (although there was a brief cider and sherry mash-up). Lovingly recall the little red bottle tops of Watney's Stingo (could pack 4 bottles in duffel coat pockets on the way home from the Queen's Head in Crouch End. When I moved to Cambridge, I seamlessly transferred to Greene King's version.
Oddly, it appears that crap breweries can manage a decent barley wine.
I am absolutely fucking certain I would not be paying £10+ a pint for it though, no matter how superlative (pokey).
Brewdog = wankers. Piss.


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## hash tag (Feb 24, 2018)

I couldn't resist the urge to give this a miss in Norwich


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## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2018)

I note they are trying to open a hotel next to their brewery in Aberdeenshire. With beer taps and a beer fridge in each room. Called The Doghouse. 

To be fair there isn't much else to do in that part of the world apart from drink...


----------



## teuchter (Feb 24, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> To be fair there isn't much else to do in that part of the world apart from drink...


A bit snooty


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2018)

teuchter said:


> A bit snooty


No it's not. It's a remote part of the country, with few amenities. You're just looking to pick a fight with me.


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## teuchter (Feb 24, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> No it's not. It's a remote part of the country, with few amenities. You're just looking to pick a fight with me.


It's not at all remote by the standards of northern scotland. But even if it was, it would still be very snooty to say that there was nothing much for people to do but drink. It's just like making jokes about welsh people and sheep.


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## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2018)

teuchter said:


> It's not at all remote by the standards of northern scotland. But even if it was, it would still be very snooty to say that there was nothing much for people to do but drink. It's just like making jokes about welsh people and sheep.


I lived in NE Scotland for a few years, I'm well aware of the area thank you.


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## teuchter (Feb 24, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> I lived in NE Scotland for a few years, I'm well aware of the area thank you.


Given that you said that a commuter town half an hour from Scotland's third largest city was "remote", I think your awareness, along with your dismissive attitude to rural areas of Scotland, could be improved upon considerably.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 24, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Given that you said that a commuter town half an hour from Scotland's third largest city was "remote", I think your awareness, along with your dismissive attitude to rural areas of Scotland, could be improved upon considerably.



Wouldn't Aberdeen be more a market town if it was south of the border? If so I can see being half an hour out feeling like the arse end of nowhere.


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## teuchter (Feb 24, 2018)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Wouldn't Aberdeen be more a market town if it was south of the border? If so I can see being half an hour out feeling like the arse end of nowhere.


There's no question that snooty quasi-metropolitan southerners think a lot of places are like "the arse end of nowhere" and can't imagine anyone having anything to do except drink.


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## pogofish (Feb 24, 2018)

TBH. Ellon is closer to American suburbia than the old NE market town it once was. 

Ellon/Ythanbank were one of those places that expanded dramatically during the exploration phase of the oil industry and housing was the only priority, not infrastructure or social facilities. Those have only begun to appear in the last decade or so.


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## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 24, 2018)

teuchter said:


> There's no question that snooty quasi-metropolitan southerners think a lot of places are like "the arse end of nowhere" and can't imagine anyone having anything to do except drink.



Point is, it is remote. Im sure it's got it's charms. But it's certainly remote.


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## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2018)

teuchter said:


> There's no question that snooty quasi-metropolitan southerners think a lot of places are like "the arse end of nowhere" and can't imagine anyone having anything to do except drink.


You live further south than me, so not quite sure why you're throwing 'southerner' around as an insult. 

Or why you're picking a fight on a Saturday night.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 24, 2018)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Point is, it is remote. Im sure it's got it's charms. But it's certainly remote.


It's certainly nothing like what I'd call remote.

"Remote" from what?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 24, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> You live further south than me, so not quite sure why you're throwing 'southerner' around as an insult.
> 
> Or why you're picking a fight on a Saturday night.



"Southerner" is not the insult. And this started with you insulting rural northern Scotland, which I feel entitled to defend.


----------



## NoXion (Feb 24, 2018)

Did rural northern Scotland ask for you to come to their defence?


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2018)

teuchter said:


> "Southerner" is not the insult. And this started with you insulting rural northern Scotland, which I feel entitled to defend.


I just said there wasn't much to do there and it's a bit far from most places. It's not like I called it a festering boil on the arse of civilisation, is it? 

I think you need to check what 'insult' means...


----------



## teuchter (Feb 24, 2018)

It's better described as a bit snooty, rather than as an insult, true enough. Snootiness often comes from ignorance rather than from intent to offend.


----------



## NoXion (Feb 25, 2018)

That scraping noise you are hearing is teuchter moving the goalposts after realising he's been caught out trying to start a pointless shitfight.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 25, 2018)

Do you defend Brewdog too, teuchter? Do you feel entitled to speak on behalf of two men who often also feel entitled to be misogynistic? 

Why do you feel entitled on this thread?


----------



## maomao (Feb 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Given that you said that a commuter town half an hour from Scotland's third largest city was "remote", I think your awareness, along with your dismissive attitude to rural areas of Scotland, could be improved upon considerably.



For the vast majority of the population of Great Britain, including a good chunk of Scotland, Aberdeen is remote. Let alone some four digit population town half an hour up the road.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> Do you defend Brewdog too, teuchter? Do you feel entitled to speak on behalf of two men who often also feel entitled to be misogynistic?
> 
> Why do you feel entitled on this thread?


I'm entitled to object when I see people coming out with the kind of nonsense I've heard all my life about a part of the country that I know very well. Looking forward to hearing about how this is actually all down to misogyny and something about brewdog though.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> For the vast majority of the population of Great Britain, including a good chunk of Scotland, Aberdeen is remote. Let alone some four digit population town half an hour up the road.


By the same reasoning, for the vast majority of the population of Europe, London is remote.


----------



## maomao (Feb 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> By the same reasoning, for the vast majority of the population of Europe, London is remote.


Except that London _is_ a major centre of population in a way that Aberdeen isn't. And you can get a direct flight there from pretty much every major centre of population in the world. From most places if you were going to Aberdeen you'd go _through_ London.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> Except that London _is_ a major centre of population in a way that Aberdeen isn't. And you can get a direct flight there from pretty much every major centre of population in the world. From most places if you were going to Aberdeen you'd go _through_ London.


If you're now defining remoteness on a global scale, then Aberdeen really doesn't come anywhere near the top of the scale. It's very well connected to London which as you say is a major international travel hub. Aside from the fact that its airport has regular flights directly to continental europe as well.


----------



## joustmaster (Feb 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> "Southerner" is not the insult.


it is


----------



## maomao (Feb 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> If you're now defining remoteness on a global scale, then Aberdeen really doesn't come anywhere near the top of the scale. It's very well connected to London which as you say is a major international travel hub. Aside from the fact that its airport has regular flights directly to continental europe as well.



75 flights (in and out) a day. Nearly 3/4 to UK destinations. It must be like being at the crossroads of the world


----------



## Gromit (Feb 25, 2018)

There's a problem of cultural scale here. 
To Scots places like the Outer Hebrides is remote. Those on the Outer Hebrides will argue they ain't that remote. 

Meanwhile down in London anything past Zone 6 is remote. 
Going past Watford is Game of Thrones North of the Wall territory. 

I've been to Aberdeen. It took aaaages to get therre. There was feck all to do once I got there. The place ran on oil revenue. Supported by workers who spent more time at sea than in their hooses. 

It certainly felt remote to me.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> 75 flights (in and out) a day. Nearly 3/4 to UK destinations. It must be like being at the crossroads of the world


What argument are you trying to make exactly?

The assertion was that this commuter town, half an hour from Aberdeen, was remote, and had so little "to do" there that one of the few options was drinking.

That's the context of the claim that it's "remote". We can talk about remoteness as a measure of distance, either in time or space, from larger population centres, in which case it becomes a completely relative measure. So on what scale are you measuring this remoteness and why? It looks like you want to look at things globally and are focussed on international aviation hubs. In that case, do you think the residents of Aberdeen and immediate environs have difficult access to those hubs compared to most of earth's population?

A more relevant measure - based on the "nothing much to do there other than drink" assertion, would be access to goods and services. Compared to the general population of the UK (let alone the world) does someone 15 miles from Aberdeen have a low level of access to goods and services? They are half an hour from a city where you can find pretty much anything that you can find in any town in the UK.
If you're on an island in the Hebrides with three ferry services to the mainland a week, and then a five hour drive to the nearest town with a similar range of goods and services as can be found in Aberdeen, then you can meaningfully talk about remoteness, at least relative to the bulk of UK population.

You lot that think somewhere just outside Aberdeen is "remote" are simply ignorant, and judging remoteness by "I'm not sure I can get an Uber there from my house". Reflecting on things I feel sorry for you, that your horizons are so small that the only thing you can conceptualise doing in places that aren't virtually next door to Heathrow Airport is getting drunk, which would no doubt soon be followed by ranting at the locals expounding some unpleasant aspect of your narrow-minded worldview.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> Except that London _is_ a major centre of population in a way that Aberdeen isn't. And you can get a direct flight there from pretty much every major centre of population in the world. From most places if you were going to Aberdeen you'd go _through_ London.


I found Aberdeen a nightmare to fly from. Direct flights to oil industry centres such as stavanger or Houston? Not a problem, sometimes multiple flights a day. Flying within the UK? Utter pain in the arse, especially if you were trying to get to somewhere else.


----------



## pogofish (Feb 25, 2018)

Its relative unremoteness from Aberdeen is something that has held Ellon back - Despite the horrible main road (replacement still under construction), it is reasonably possible to get from Ellon into the city or to the airport and some of the main oil biz employment centres (Dyce, Bridge of Don) in about the same time as it would take to get from Aberdeen's more attractive districts - and Aberdeenshire's planners were much more amenable to housebuilders than the city, so any advancement of the town itself beyond residential was given low priority.  That it had become a kind of centre for more remote places in Buchan itself was pretty-much ignored in favour of Peterhead.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> What argument are you trying to make exactly?
> 
> The assertion was that this commuter town, half an hour from Aberdeen, was remote, and had so little "to do" there that one of the few options was drinking.
> 
> ...


Well let's look at those services shall we?

First, no railway station. That's not helpful.

It has a farmers market once a month.

There's a swimming pool and a health centre, plus a youth centre and a park and ride facility. Population is just over 10,000 according to the ASPC (Local estate agents network).

There's three primary schools and one secondary school. It does have a library open six days a week, five of those until 7.30pm.

There is also a community centre which runs a wide variety of classes and events, and a Sunday cinema which seems to run a few times a month. Plus it can be booked for weddings or birthdays and so on. Want to go to the cinema on any other night though, or not their limited releases, you'll need to go to Aberdeen.

There's no hospital, nearest would in Aberdeen.

From the park and ride, its roughly an hour to Aberdeen. Stagecoach run a mostly hourly service (hourly in rush hour,  looks like every 90 minutes outside those time periods and last service is 6.30pm on weekdays. No stagecoach buses on a Sunday on that route).  There's an hourly service on a different route on a Sunday, but it takes 90 minutes and last bus back from Aberdeen is 6.20pm.  A different website claims there's a later bus at 8.20 during the week but knowing the vagaries of stagecoach I'm not 100% convinced.

There are a number of restaurants in Ellon, covering a few different cuisines such as Indian, Italian and Chinese as well as traditional Scottish food.  If you want chain restaurants Aberdeen is the nearest place. There's several bars in the area.

There's a few supermarkets - co-op, tesco and aldi.

So not too badly served within the town itself, but as with many small towns public transport appears inadequate and time-consuming. Plus a hospital is far away if you become critically ill.


----------



## pogofish (Feb 25, 2018)

maomao said:


> 75 flights (in and out) a day. Nearly 3/4 to UK destinations. It must be like being at the crossroads of the world



Its about to get worse - End of March sees our direct flights to Frankfurt axed:

German airline Lufthansa axes Aberdeen flights to Frankfurt - Evening Express

Which leaves Amsterdam as our only connection to a major international hub outside the UK.

The Flights to Houston, Baku etc are all industry charters and surprisingly difficult for non-oil people to get tickets-on.  Stavanger is scheduled though.

However I can remember the days when my Uncle was coming back from Canada and whilst he was waiting for his usual Canada-Heathrow-Edinburgh (or Glasgow)-Train to Aberdeen route, for the first time ever he saw a direct flight to Aberdeen come-up on the board at Heathrow - Now that was progress..!


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> Plus a hospital is far away if you become critically ill.



It's less than 20 miles away 

I'm honestly baffled as to what frame of reference places the town you've just described in any category of "remoteness". It's bog standard for, or even a bit better than, any similarly sized place in the UK.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2018)

pogofish said:


> Its about to get worse - End of March sees our direct flights to Frankfurt axed:
> 
> German airline Lufthansa axes Aberdeen flights to Frankfurt - Evening Express



Is this all connected with oil decline?

Last summer, as far as I know for the first time ever, they put more coaches on the Fort William portion of the sleeper than the Aberdeen one...custom, I gather, has dropped right off.


----------



## pogofish (Feb 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Is this all connected with oil decline?
> 
> Last summer, as far as I know for the first time ever, they put more coaches on the Fort William portion of the sleeper than the Aberdeen one...custom, I gather, has dropped right off.



As far as I understand, yes - Although the oil decline is a moot point.  I think the bottom was reached over a year ago but since then, its been quietly but steadily picking-up.  Confidence is certainly much better and trade in ancillary areas is picking-up again.

Then there is all the money being poured into decommissioning - Apparently 2020 is going to be the key year there, when it starts-up big-time.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> It's less than 20 miles away
> 
> I'm honestly baffled as to what frame of reference places the town you've just described in any category of "remoteness". It's bog standard for, or even a bit better than, any similarly sized place in the UK.


Far enough if you're having a heart attack. A broken bone is generally one thing, a heart attack or stroke needs urgent treatment. 20 miles is pretty far at a time like that.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 25, 2018)

pogofish said:


> As far as I understand, yes - Although the oil decline is a moot point.  I think the bottom was reached over a year ago but since then, its been quietly but steadily picking-up.  Confidence is certainly much better and trade in ancillary areas is picking-up again.
> 
> Then there is all the money being poured into decommissioning - Apparently 2020 is going to be the key year there, when it starts-up big-time.


Is Aberdeen going for wind turbine business in a big way? I know that some of the old construction/maintenance yards like Nigg are.


----------



## pogofish (Feb 25, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> Well let's look at those services shall we?
> 
> First, no railway station. That's not helpful.
> 
> ...



Railway - Closed to passengers post-Beeching.  Line remained for freight till 1978, despite it being obvious that Peterhead was going to be expanding by then.

Its a really very small Farmers Market, possibly the smallest in Aberdeenshire. 

Secondary school/community campus opened in 2015 - This was maybe the most obvious sign that Aberdeenshire were taking Ellon seriously again and they have done a good job with it.  Previous school/pool/community facilities were dumps even when I worked in them back in the late 1980s - at best they were the councils most parsimonious possible response to the expansion of the town in the 1970s.

The only reason Ellon got a new health centre/dental surgery in the late 1980s/90s was because the developers who wanted to put-in a new row of shops financed it as 'planning gain'

The Hospital was run-down from the late 1960s eventually becoming just an old folks home.

Bus services have always been absolutely shite - Although if you include the services to Peterhead/Fraserburgh, you can get to and from Ellon up to 10pm most days but really you need your own transport if you live North of the city. 

The Park and Ride opened @2000 - When they put-in the new bridge over the Ythan/Eastern bypass and started to join-up the relief road that finally took heavy traffic out of the town itself. It has actually become be best used P&R in Aberdeen and Aberdeenshire, despite being some distance outside the town itself.






This was the main road north until then!  The old Park and Ride was down there too but it was a joke - they just moved the town square bus stop to beside the riverside car park and rebranded it!  

True there are a reasonable number of restaurants - most are family businesses from the town's expansion in the seventies and very much part of the community.

Tesco was Ellon's first modern supermarket - Opened on the bypass @2009/10 IIRC.  Aldi in 2015 on the site of the former Co-Op which was flooded-out and demolished. Since then, the only Co-Op presence is a small food shop on the Esselmont housing estate.


----------



## pogofish (Feb 25, 2018)

teuchter said:


> Is Aberdeen going for wind turbine business in a big way? I know that some of the old construction/maintenance yards like Nigg are.



Not really - Apart from the EOWDC, which seems to be progressing in fits and starts and SCORE at Peterhead chasing construction contracts, there isn't much else.  All the talk about the 'Energetica Corridor' and moving to renewables seems to amount to a big new and vaguely-purposed industrial estate straddling the new Ellon Road to just short of Trump. All the real money, planning and work seems to be going into decommissioning projects. Similarly, all the talk about cruise ships and tourism for the new harbour at Nigg Bay seems totally at odds with the acres of yard space in the plan and size of the new docks - most top-end modern cruise ships simply won't fit.  Also one of the Harbour Board engineers let slip last year that they have a simulator set-up in London and are already training their staff for barge/towing operations and the like.  Which again fits more with decommissioning than a cruise port.  Anyone else working on that project seems to be sworn to secrecy on a death or deportation basis - and yes, virtually all of them have been brought-in specially for the work.


----------



## editor (Mar 6, 2018)

Their latest gimmick 

 

Perhaps they forgot this sexist crap they peddled around before? 

 

Hypocritical wankers. Fake punk shitehawks.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 6, 2018)

Yeah, think this latest campaign misses the point somewhat. Just them jumping on the gender pay gap bandwagon as it rolls into town. 

They sell beer. They just want to sell more beer. If they gave a shit about women and equal pay they wouldn't use terrible sexist marketing.


----------



## hash tag (May 5, 2018)

Back on the chain gang

BrewDog faces backlash over 'chain gang' cycling club


----------



## ddraig (May 5, 2018)

bit of a totenkopf looking logo too!
pricks


----------



## DotCommunist (May 5, 2018)

> William Shatner wrote: “Apparently chain gang is a term used in cycling circles, HOWEVER, you'd think a multinational corporation (with previous problems of causing offence) would think a bit harder about this sort of s**t. Its not hard, just don't be a d***head.”



physician heal thyself


----------



## editor (May 5, 2018)

Brew Dog really are the scummiest type of entrepreneurial capitalists with all their  faux edginess.


----------



## equationgirl (May 5, 2018)

My first thought was 'was what are they trying to promote now?'. Clearly they are just trying for shock value and choosing such loaded terms just speaks to their white privilege. 

Dickheads.


----------



## Rob Ray (May 5, 2018)

Got them some more column inches though so job done


----------



## equationgirl (May 5, 2018)

Rob Ray said:


> Got them some more column inches though so job done


Less than usual by the looks of things.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 5, 2018)

They sell Punk IPA in ‘spoons nowadays, although way pricier then the rotating guest ales.


----------



## maomao (May 5, 2018)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They sell Punk IPA in ‘spoons nowadays, although way pricier then the rotating guest ales.


It's yuck too. Overhopped so much it tastes like licking metal cutlery.

They are pricks but I'm struggling to find 'chain gang' offensive. There was a courier company called that (cause bikes) in the nineties and I don't remember it being out of order then.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 5, 2018)

Chain gang is a commonly used phrase in cycling. If people are so desperate to get offended by a brewery they really need to try a bit harder.


----------



## Maggot (Aug 16, 2018)

Another reason to not like Brewdog:

BrewDog fined £12,000 after sacking worker who faced turning blind


----------



## alex_ (Aug 16, 2018)

Maggot said:


> Another reason to not like Brewdog:
> 
> BrewDog fined £12,000 after sacking worker who faced turning blind



That is piss poor.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 16, 2018)

Morning Advertiser can be a good source, landlord at our local has shown it me a few times. It's a trade paper with reliable, often very critical reporting on the pub and brewery scene. I'd missed this story though ....

I'm glad he won that tribunal, it's the least he deserved, but 12 grand isn't all that much when you've been sacked from  a job  Piss poor indeed


----------



## editor (Aug 16, 2018)

Maggot said:


> Another reason to not like Brewdog:
> 
> BrewDog fined £12,000 after sacking worker who faced turning blind


Just when you couldn't hate the fake punk capitalists any more. Utter cunts.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 16, 2018)

I read a case summary about it. There wasn't a shred of apology or sympathy expressed by brewdog for their worker. They basically refused to consider the suggested reasonable adjustments for him, and pretty much gave nil fucks.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 16, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> I read a case summary about it. There wasn't a shred of apology or sympathy expressed by brewdog for their worker. They basically refused to consider the suggested reasonable adjustments for him, and pretty much gave nil fucks.



Ie totally deliberate, or totally incompetent.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 16, 2018)

Where can one read the case summary?


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 17, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Ie totally deliberate, or totally incompetent.


Totally ignorant with deliberate intent to ignore. Refused any adjustments despite legal obligation to do so. The judge described their ignorance of equality laws as 'astonishing'. 

Expert advisers, including one from the RNIB, said he could continue working with some adjustments, which was ignored by brewdog. They offered him a computing job instead which would have aggravated his condition. 

Wish the payout had been more, to be honest.


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> Totally ignorant with deliberate intent to ignore. Refused any adjustments despite legal obligation to do so. The judge described their ignorance of equality laws as 'astonishing'.
> 
> Expert advisers, including one from the RNIB, said he could continue working with some adjustments, which was ignored by brewdog. They offered him a computing job instead which would have aggravated his condition.
> 
> Wish the payout had been more, to be honest.


I wish it had broken the company and their cunty bosses, with all their staff finding work in a non wanker-filled, sexist, bullshit fake punk brewery.

Well, I can dream.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 17, 2018)

editor said:


> I wish it had broken the company and their cunty bosses, with all their staff finding work in a non wanker-filled, sexist, bullshit fake punk brewery.
> 
> Well, I can dream.


One day, Ed, one day... 

I'd like an old-school mob with flaming torches and pitchforks to descend upon their HQ and burn it to the ground, seeing as we're sharing dreams


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> One day, Ed, one day...
> 
> I'd like an old-school mob with flaming torches and pitchforks to descend upon their HQ and burn it to the ground, seeing as we're sharing dreams


I like the cut of your jib, ma'am


----------



## alex_ (Aug 17, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> Totally ignorant with deliberate intent to ignore. Refused any adjustments despite legal obligation to do so. The judge described their ignorance of equality laws as 'astonishing'.
> 
> Expert advisers, including one from the RNIB, said he could continue working with some adjustments, which was ignored by brewdog. They offered him a computing job instead which would have aggravated his condition.
> 
> Wish the payout had been more, to be honest.



Yes - totally incompetent - they can’t have had any idea what their obligations were.

Alex


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 17, 2018)

alex_ said:


> Yes - totally incompetent - they can’t have had any idea what their obligations were.
> 
> Alex


And I don't think they wanted to.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 17, 2018)

editor said:


> I like the cut of your jib, ma'am


And a dragon breathing fire. I like dragons.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 17, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> And I don't think they wanted to.



understanding obligations under employment law should be literally the first line on the job spec. 

I can’t image that the hr director had any idea what was going on, losing in a employment tribunal is completely humiliating.

A) the incident happened in the first place
B) your pre tribunal advice is so poor, that you thought going to the tribunal and suffering the reputational damage was a good idea

In my experience someone somewhere (lawyers or senior hr) in the process says “what the fuck have you done ? Pay them off today”

Alex


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2018)

alex_ said:


> understanding obligations under employment law should be literally the first line on the job spec.
> 
> I can’t image that the hr director had any idea what was going on, losing in a employment tribunal is completely humiliating.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but they're so fucking punk rock/with attitude etc etc zzzzzzzzz.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 17, 2018)

editor said:


> Yeah, but they're so fucking punk rock/with attitude etc etc zzzzzzzzz.


Clearly having a worker with a disability didn't fit their image. Think they got done a year ago for removing the disabled unisex wc from their flagship Aberdeen pub. They were ordered to reinstate it fairly quickly by the council.

One can only assume they don't want to encourage those with disabilities to use their bars or drink their products. 

I feel like putting turds in beer, bottling it, and sending it to them. I can't think of a name other than 'code brown'.


----------



## editor (Aug 17, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> Clearly having a worker with a disability didn't fit their image. Think they got done a year ago for removing the disabled unisex wc from their flagship Aberdeen pub. They were ordered to reinstate it fairly quickly by the council.


They are utter shits. Filthy capitalistic cunts appropriating the punk ethos as an edgy image to make even more money for themselves. 'Equity for punks', my fucking arse.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 17, 2018)

editor said:


> They are utter shits. Filthy capitalistic cunts appropriating the punk ethos as an edgy image to make even more money for themselves. 'Equity for punks', my fucking arse.


Equity for arsehole, more like.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 17, 2018)

OK, will start packing up stuff soon. Am near rear of train.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 17, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> OK, will start packing up stuff soon. Am near rear of train.


wrong thread?!?!


----------



## alex_ (Aug 17, 2018)

ddraig said:


> wrong thread?!?!



“Where are you on the transport network right now?”


----------



## ddraig (Aug 17, 2018)

alex_ said:


> “Where are you on the transport network right now?”


wrong site/medium of comms even!


----------



## alex_ (Aug 17, 2018)

ddraig said:


> wrong site/medium of comms even!



It’s the name of the appropriate thread !


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 18, 2018)

ddraig said:


> wrong thread?!?!


Definitely, was texting my dad!!!


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 18, 2018)

In my defence, I was tired and phone has a mind of its own sometimes.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 18, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> Definitely, was texting my dad!!!



This could have been SO much worse !!


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 18, 2018)

alex_ said:


> This could have been SO much worse !!


How very dare you. I'm a lady, you know


----------



## Raheem (Aug 18, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> Equity for arsehole, more like.


You could have texted this to your dad, frinstance.


----------



## 4eyes (Aug 22, 2018)

treelover said:


> Seems to be a growing trend this 'rebel sell' type of marketing, this time its a brewery called Brewdog with beers named such as Punk IPA, I have no idea about its business practices and workers conditions, but it is so blantant, the niche it is using.


I imagine you also lived through the 1990's and the rise of the "alcopop"? Did watch a documentary about it a few years ago, it wasn't initially to appeal to teenage drinkers (although that it was it became), it was originally a way to strike back against the "rave scene" and perceived use of other methods of "enjoying oneself".
So, to counteract the drinking of water (bad), and not alcohol-based drinks, the "industry" created the alcopop, which I am pretty sure led on to the creation of the "energy" drink.


----------



## 4eyes (Aug 22, 2018)

4eyes said:


> I imagine you also lived through the 1990's and the rise of the "alcopop"? Did watch a documentary about it a few years ago, it wasn't initially to appeal to teenage drinkers (although that it was it became), it was originally a way to strike back against the "rave scene" and perceived use of other methods of "enjoying oneself".
> So, to counteract the drinking of water (bad), and not alcohol-based drinks, the "industry" created the alcopop, which I am pretty sure led on to the creation of the "energy" drink.


Just in case anyone was wondering how "liberal" the Lib Dems are, they were opposing a ban on alcohol advertising to this day, not just when children could be watching.

As far as I know, this ban has been in place in France for at least 20 years.

Closing time in Ireland is about 10pm, unless you're in a pub I think.


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Aug 22, 2018)

4eyes said:


> Closing time in Ireland is about 10pm, unless you're in a pub I think.



Closing time on Monday through Thursday is 11:30. On Friday and Saturday, it's 12:30, and on Sunday 11:00...in pubs

Off licences close at 10.


----------



## 4eyes (Aug 22, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> Closing time on Monday through Thursday is 11:30. On Friday and Saturday, it's 12:30, and on Sunday 11:00...in pubs
> 
> Off licences close at 10.


Yes, at least you're still awake, but I think that's what I just said


----------



## Baronage-Phase (Aug 22, 2018)

4eyes said:


> Yes, at least you're still awake, but I think that's what I just said



Just clarifying facts for members


----------



## 4eyes (Aug 22, 2018)

PippinTook said:


> Just clarifying facts for members


----------



## salem (Sep 4, 2018)

Biggest Pub In London? The New BrewDog Has To Be A Contender












Who would have known? London's latest punk venue is a huge corporate pub in the square mile!


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 4, 2018)

Its also half-full at best which does seem to be the case with every brewdog pub I've been into.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 4, 2018)

Hop exchange. It's just hipster buzzword bingo with these cunts isn't it?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 4, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Its also half-full at best which does seem to be the case with every brewdog pub I've been into.



At their prices they hardly need to pack them in tbf.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Sep 4, 2018)

> BrewDogs are never a cheap night out, but here the prices are hard to justify. We're talking £5 to £6 a pint for the weaker stuff. One 3.6% beer weighs in at £4.10 _for a half_.



GTF


----------



## salem (Sep 4, 2018)

SpookyFrank said:


> Hop exchange. It's just hipster buzzword bingo with these cunts isn't it?



It's a bit like in the 90s at the peak of the Oirish pub boom, when they'd have the road sign to Tipperary, an old bicycle and maybe a postbox slapped up on the wall.

I feel we're at that point with all this craft beer hipsterish nonsense (no one really identifies as hipster, but I'm going to say that they're appropriating 'hipster' culture as much as punk). Neon light check, a barrel of some brewed on site shite festering in the corner (but that clearly doesn't have the capacity to be more than a token gesture) check.

I mean this is a fancy office block in the city and they're charging £6+ a pint to guys in suits. The bare lightbulbs and concrete walls Hackney Wick popup look is just stupid in this context.

They seem to be popping up all over London at the moment. I sense a bubble that's about to go pop.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Sep 4, 2018)

I'm sure city boys will be demanding cheap pints of old wizard's knob any day now.


----------



## editor (Sep 7, 2018)

Heartbreaking - Brewdog coming to Coldharbour Lane, Brixton


----------



## BusLanes (Sep 7, 2018)

Ugh


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 8, 2018)

editor said:


> Heartbreaking - Brewdog coming to Coldharbour Lane, Brixton


Nowhere is safe. Surprised it has taken them this long, given the hipster vibrancy of Brixton.


----------



## pogofish (Sep 8, 2018)

Has anyone mentioned that they seem to have their sights on entry to the coffee shop market? Planning is in for a couple of cafes in Aberdeenshire but not yet under the Brewdog name/brand, so it's likely a test exercise and they seem to have taken over a small live music/art venue in the city but whilst all admin goes to Brewdog it still operates under its old name/image (twee/foody/arty).


----------



## BusLanes (Sep 8, 2018)

pogofish said:


> Has anyone mentioned that they seem to have their sights on entry to the coffee shop market? Planning is in for a couple of cafes in Aberdeenshire but not yet under the Brewdog name/brand, so it's likely a test exercise and they seem to have taken over a small live music/art venue in the city but whilst all admin goes to Brewdog it still operates under its old name/image (twee/foody/arty).


Interesting


----------



## alcopop (Sep 8, 2018)

Staff Benefits

Looks reasonable


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 9, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Staff Benefits
> 
> Looks reasonable


Forgive my cynicism but this is a company that has just been taken to Employment Tribunal (and lost) for refusing reasonable accommodations to an employee who was losing his sight. That's not the hallmark of a caring employer. 

Plus at least one of those benefits is only available to staff at the Ellon HQ. Would not be surprised if others are limited. 

These guys are rapacious. They give no fucks about staff loyalty, women or those with disabilities.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 9, 2018)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I'm sure city boys will be demanding cheap pints of old wizard's knob any day now.



As far as I'm concerned, "city boys" can go suck hard on the old wizard's knob.


----------



## alex_ (Sep 9, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> Plus at least one of those benefits is only available to staff at the Ellon HQ. Would not be surprised if others are limited.



It’s the use of the gym - at the ellon hq, it’s pretty reasonable that this can only be used at the Ellon hq.

Alex


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2018)

It's so depressing how these forums have become populated with constant pro-corporate apologists and cheerleaders. 

Fuck Brewdog and their pathetic claims to have any sort of connection to punk.


----------



## editor (Sep 9, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Staff Benefits
> 
> Looks reasonable


Oh look, they actively support Private Health Care.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 9, 2018)

editor said:


> It's so depressing how these forums have become populated with constant pro-corporate apologists and cheerleaders.
> 
> Fuck Brewdog and their pathetic claims to have any sort of connection to punk.



There's a whiner on your buzz thread, too.


----------



## Dogsauce (Sep 9, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> Nowhere is safe. Surprised it has taken them this long, given the hipster vibrancy of Brixton.



Brewdog isn’t really a hipster thing, it’s for the works night out crowd/students, people who don’t do much politics. The only people I know who are vaguely enthusiastic about Brewdog are shit metaller/commercial punk pop kids, the sort that think having a flesh tunnel or some tats is sticking it to the man, painted rebellion.

Hipster twats are too into ‘authenticity’ to go near this sort of chain pub.


----------



## Favelado (Sep 9, 2018)

editor said:


> Heartbreaking - Brewdog coming to Coldharbour Lane, Brixton


It had its downside, but the days when Coldharbour Lane was a 24 hour open drugs market were preferable to this shit.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 9, 2018)

pogofish said:


> Has anyone mentioned that they seem to have their sights on entry to the coffee shop market? Planning is in for a couple of cafes in Aberdeenshire but not yet under the Brewdog name/brand, so it's likely a test exercise and they seem to have taken over a small live music/art venue in the city but whilst all admin goes to Brewdog it still operates under its old name/image (twee/foody/arty).



Thank god. It's murder trying to find a cup of coffee these days


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 9, 2018)

alex_ said:


> It’s the use of the gym - at the ellon hq, it’s pretty reasonable that this can only be used at the Ellon hq.
> 
> Alex


There's a gym at the HQ because the that's the site the founders work out of. It suits them to have a gym there - if they didn't want one, but the rest of the workforce did, it wouldn't matter, there would be no gym. 

They don't offer subsidised gym memberships to their pub staff, do they?

I reiterate, they got taken to tribunal for not following the law for a worker who was losing his sight. They give nils fucks about any of the workforce, and if you think a few words on a website makes them a great employer, you are respectfully deluded.


----------



## alex_ (Sep 10, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> I reiterate, they got taken to tribunal for not following the law for a worker who was losing his sight. They give nils fucks about any of the workforce, and if you think a few words on a website makes them a great employer, you are respectfully deluded.



Sure someone in their hr massively fucked up the tribunal thing is epically incompetent, but paying living wage, 6% pension contributions, and above statutory maternity is a very expensive way of giving “nil fucks” about their workforce and probably makes them have the best staff t’s and c’s of any retailer in Brixton.

To be very clear, I don’t like their beer or their pubs - but I find the daily mail style headlines about any change in Brixton equally boring.

Alex


----------



## alcopop (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> Fuck Brewdog and their pathetic claims to have any sort of connection to punk.



You realise it’s just advertising?


----------



## Johnny Doe (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> It's so depressing how these forums have become populated with constant pro-corporate apologists and cheerleaders.


 
U75 has been gentrified!


----------



## mwgdrwg (Sep 10, 2018)

Harry Smiles said:


> U75 has been gentrified!



More freemasons than anarchists here these days.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

Harry Smiles said:


> U75 has been gentrified!


It's not even gentrification. It's more about the slow drift to selfish Tory beliefs and the total lack of interest in supporting the community and workers, but when another corporate bar, global chain or expensive restaurant rolls into town, they're lining up to defend them. It's really quite depressing.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

alex_ said:


> To be very clear, I don’t like their beer or their pubs - but I find the daily mail style headlines about any change in Brixton equally boring.


Which Daily Mail style headline was that?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 10, 2018)

seems unfair to offer this but not to do the same for people getting a new three- or even four-legged cat


----------



## alcopop (Sep 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 146588
> seems unfair to offer this but not to do the same for people getting a new three- or even four-legged cat


This is what I take issue with too


----------



## alex_ (Sep 10, 2018)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 146588
> seems unfair to offer this but not to do the same for people getting a new three- or even four-legged cat



Pawstards


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 10, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> They don't offer subsidised gym memberships to their pub staff, do they?


According to the website they do :-
At BrewDog, we are committed to promoting the health and wellbeing of our crew. For those based up at our HQ in Ellon, we have recently installed a brand new, state of the art, shiny employee gym. For those based in one of our other offices, remotely or in one of our bars, we offer discounts on gym memberships too!

More details would be interesting  if it saved 50% it would be a decent perk, on the other hand my former employer offered discounts on gym memberships too, it saved me £1 a month at my preferred gym after I showed my ID badge, there was an unexpected benefit in that it gave Mrs MickiQ a major fit of the giggles.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

So is everyone OK with Brewdog actively supporting and financing private health care?


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> So is everyone OK with Brewdog actively supporting and financing private health care?


Yes why not?  what I have an issue with is the Govt using availability of private healthcare as an excuse to run down public health care and indeed just running it down anyway.


----------



## alex_ (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> So is everyone OK with Brewdog actively supporting and financing private health care?



It’s not clear if they pay or just have a group plan someone could pay to opt into, the wording is ambiguous.

Most decent employers offer healthcare.

Alex


----------



## alex_ (Sep 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> I have an issue with is the Govt using availability of private healthcare as an excuse to run down public health care



I can’t see this being a vote winner with most of the population.

Alex


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

I think I should maybe rename these boards FreeMarket75. Or Thatch75.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...res-whats-wrong-with-private-health-insurance
Americans! This is what it's like to use the NHS, Britain's universal healthcare system that Trump thinks is 'going broke and not working'


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> So is everyone OK with Brewdog actively supporting and financing private health care?


You obviously think this is a bad thing why?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2018)

mwgdrwg said:


> More freemasons than anarchists here these days.


And rightly so.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> You obviously think this is a bad thing why?


Can everyone afford private health care? Do you believe in companies promoting a two tier health system where only the well off can get treatment? Are you happy with the rich jumping queues?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> You obviously think this is a bad thing why?


Is this some sort of joke?

Ban this person, shut down the brixton forum and all those posters. Job done.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Is this some sort of joke?
> 
> Ban this person, shut down the brixton forum and all those posters. Job done.


I can't be arsed, but why not point out what's not truly wonderful about private health care for the rich and privileged?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2018)

I had this thread on mental ignore - most people who would kick back against this sort of crap probably have. It isn't acceptance of it.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I had this thread on mental ignore - most people who would kick back against this sort of crap probably have. It isn't acceptance of it.


Sometimes it needs people like you to answer back otherwise new visitors will think that this board is some kind of  pro-Thatcherite, nu-Brixton love in.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> I can't be arsed, but why not point out what's not truly wonderful about private health care for the rich and privileged?


The main thing is that leads to working class people living shorter lives in worse conditions. So even the shorter life is compromised - health wise.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> Sometimes it needs people like you to answer back otherwise new visitors will think that this board is some kind of  pro-Thatcherite, nu-Brixton love in.


I've put the brixton forum on ignore. I was genuinely shocked last time i even looked in there. You're right though, i just can't face it  because of time issues at the minute. I don't know how you gramsci and others can keep going at times.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I've put the brixton forum on ignore. I was genuinely shocked last time i even looked in there. You're right though, i just can't face it  because of time issues at the minute. I don't know how you gramsci and others can keep going at times.


Personally I'd really appreciate your input sometimes because I'm not sure how much longer me and Gramsci can keep battling the right wingers on our own...


----------



## alex_ (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> Can everyone afford private health care? Do you believe in companies promoting a two tier health system where only the well off can get treatment? Are you happy with the rich jumping queues?



So you are equating a business offering healthcare and campaigning for the abolition of free at the point of consumption healthcare ?

The hilarious thing about all of this is while a load of left of center people call each other tories, actual tories are doing the things you are complaining about with very little resistance from Labour....

Alex


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

alex_ said:


> So you are equating a business offering healthcare and campaigning for the abolition of free at the point of consumption healthcare ?
> 
> The hilarious thing about all of this is while a load of left of center people call each other tories, actual tories are doing the things you are complaining about with very little resistance from Labour....
> 
> Alex


If you offer exclusive private healthcare to your employees you are part of the fucking problem, and perpetuating the growing divide between the haves and the have nots.

And there's nothing 'hilarious' about it.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> Personally I'd really appreciate your input sometimes because I'm not sure how much longer me and Gramsci can keep battling the right wingers on our own...


Ok, noted and will try to pitch in.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> Can everyone afford private health care? Do you believe in companies promoting a two tier health system where only the well off can get treatment? Are you happy with the rich jumping queues?


The answer to all those questions is No and what should be happening is far more taxpayer money going into the NHS to improve the public healthcare system but that of course isn't happening. 
If it was companies wouldn't be offering health benefits because no-one would bother to take them, BrewDog whatever their failing as an employer aren't the ones cutting NHS funding are they? nor are the people who sign up to these schemes.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> The answer to all those questions is No and what should be happening is far more taxpayer money going into the NHS to improve the public healthcare system but that of course isn't happening.
> If it was companies wouldn't be offering health benefits because no-one would bother to take them, BrewDog whatever their failing as an employer aren't the ones cutting NHS funding are they? nor are the people who sign up to these schemes.


So you don't think multi-million pound multinational companies signing up their staff to private healthcare deals has any negative impact on the NHS? They could, for example, donate that money to the NHS instead, but they'd rather propagate a system that punishes the poor and puts the privileged at the front of the queue.

Fuck the poor - we've got private healthcare!


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> The answer to all those questions is No and what should be happening is far more taxpayer money going into the NHS to improve the public healthcare system but that of course isn't happening.
> If it was companies wouldn't be offering health benefits because no-one would bother to take them, BrewDog whatever their failing as an employer aren't the ones cutting NHS funding are they? nor are the people who sign up to these schemes.


You see no impact from private for profit companies siphoning off _clients _- and therefore political support and a role in maintaining those services, those jobs - on the public health service? None at all? Yet you're a fully grown adult who can think of two things at once and how they interact and impact on each other in other situations.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> So you don't think multi-million pound multinational companies signing up their staff to private healthcare deals has any negative impact on the NHS? They could, for example, donate that money to the NHS instead, but they'd rather propagate a system that punishes the poor and puts the privileged at the front of the queue.
> 
> Fuck the poor - we've got private healthcare!


They could but they won't because there is nothing in it for them since the main reason they offer it is has a benefit to attract (and keep) staff, A better solution would be for govenment to tax  private healthcare and use that money to fund the NHS but again neither of the main parties have that in their manifesto so not likely to happen soon.
The rich and privileged can get to the front of the queue by just paying out of pocket so again why are you opposed to companies (admittedly for purely selfish reasons) giving ordinary working class people some of the benefits of being rich?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> They could but they won't because there is nothing in it for them since the main reason they offer it is has a benefit to attract (and keep) staff, A better solution would be for govenment to tax  private healthcare and use that money to fund the NHS but again neither of the main parties have that in their manifesto so not likely to happen soon.


Labour does.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 10, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Labour does.


I stand corrected and that is an excellent reason to vote for them.


----------



## alcopop (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> So is everyone OK with Brewdog actively supporting and financing private health care?


Yes


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 10, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> Ok, noted and will try to pitch in.


I will try to do the same as well editor.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 10, 2018)

I'll join you. Should be fun.


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> The rich and privileged can get to the front of the queue by just paying out of pocket so again why are you opposed to companies (admittedly for purely selfish reasons) giving ordinary working class people some of the benefits of being rich?


Because I want a decent health service for all, not the queue-jumping rich or the microscopic handful of supposed 'ordinary working class people' who happen to work for multi-millionaire, PR-manipulating companies like Brewdog.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 10, 2018)

alex_ said:


> So you are equating a business offering healthcare and campaigning for the abolition of free at the point of consumption healthcare ?



The former feeds the latter.



> The hilarious thing about all of this is while a load of left of center people call each other tories, actual tories are doing the things you are complaining about with very little resistance from Labour....
> 
> Alex



Hilarious to you, maybe.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> The answer to all those questions is No and what should be happening is far more taxpayer money going into the NHS to improve the public healthcare system but that of course isn't happening.
> If it was companies wouldn't be offering health benefits because no-one would bother to take them, BrewDog whatever their failing as an employer aren't the ones cutting NHS funding are they? nor are the people who sign up to these schemes.



Wrong.
Even at times when the NHS has been on better funding terms, some people - not just the posh and/or the wealthy - chose to go private. 

As for Brewdog not cutting NHS funding, what effect do you think tax minimisation by the two twats in charge, or the multi-corp that's bought into the business, has?


----------



## ffsear (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> Because I want a decent health service for all, not the queue-jumping rich or the microscopic handful of supposed 'ordinary working class people' who happen to work for multi-millionaire, PR-manipulating companies like Brewdog.



Doesn't private health care take people out of the NHS system, even though they still pay into it ?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2018)

ffsear said:


> Doesn't private health care take people out of the NHS system, even though they still pay into it ?


What does that entail politically? In terms of the construction of and maintenance of common shared interests centred on collective provision of health care?


----------



## editor (Sep 10, 2018)

ffsear said:


> Doesn't private health care take people out of the NHS system, even though they still pay into it ?


It certainly takes nurses and trained staff out of the NHS system. 

Health service 'haemorrhaging' nurses


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2018)

It blows it away doesn't it? And therefore should be named clearly and publicly and opposed.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 10, 2018)

editor said:


> Because I want a decent health service for all, not the queue-jumping rich or the microscopic handful of supposed 'ordinary working class people' who happen to work for multi-millionaire, PR-manipulating companies like Brewdog.


Good answer much better than your earlier ones, so you oppose it on grounds of principle?  I too want a fully funded NHS free and adequate for all (and taxing private healthcare schemes are a good way to help fund it) but until we have one, companies will offer private healthcare as a benefit to attract staff (much like a subsidisied shop), currently about 4 million people are in company healthcare schemes though I (and I imagine you) are not. 
I don't however begrudge people for taking the chance to get something they feel they can benefit from even though I personally am not in a position to do so.


ViolentPanda said:


> Even at times when the NHS has been on better funding terms, some people - not just the posh and/or the wealthy - chose to go private.
> 
> As for Brewdog not cutting NHS funding, what effect do you think tax minimisation by the two twats in charge, or the multi-corp that's bought into the business, has?



If the NHS is properly funded then some people may very well chose to pay themselves more fool them paying for something that's free. My previous employer offered private health insurance I didn't take it not out of any idealogical reason but because my wife and I decided that for a family of six all in excellent health it wasn't worth £100+ a month.

BrewDog (I'll your take your word for it they're twats, I've never even tried their beers) aren't responsible for cutting NHS funding, they may very well be responsible for tax dodging but it is the Govt that isn't pursuing them (and others) for it and using shortage of money has an excuse for all sorts of cuts.


----------



## ddraig (Sep 10, 2018)

"until we have one" 
How does that even have a chance of happening with people opting for private healthcare and queue jumping??


----------



## peterkro (Sep 10, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> I will try to do the same as well editor.


Me too.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 10, 2018)

Part of the issue with private healthcare - as well as the fact that it reduces the proportion of the population who have an interest in keeping the NHS properly funded - is that it reduces the availability of those things with a finite supply to NHS patients - for example, doctors. There are many doctors who work in the NHS as well as privately on the side, but their private patients get much longer consultations. So private patients take up time that, if the doctor made themselves available to the NHS, could be used to see more people.

Of course, everyone who uses their private car when there's a public transport alternative is also a queue-jumper, and undermines the viability of a public service, in the same way as those who opt for private medical treatment, and I think it's good to keep this in mind when judging others' morals.


----------



## ffsear (Sep 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> A better solution would be for govenment to tax  private healthcare.



I thought it is taxed ?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 10, 2018)

ffsear said:


> I thought it is taxed ?


At a rate that makes a substantive impact then.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 10, 2018)

ddraig said:


> "until we have one"
> How does that even have a chance of happening with people opting for private healthcare and queue jumping??


Elect a government that is prepared to fund the NHS to the extent that queues are not long enough for it to be worthwhile for people to pay the extra cost of being in a private healthcare scheme. 
People are in these schemes and see them as a benefit precisely because there are queues and they are concerned about how NHS shortages will affect them and their families personally. 
One of my former colleagues had kidney problems and whilst he was happy enough with the dialysis he received from the NHS, kidney patients tend to be sickly anyway and being in the company scheme meant he got faster treatment for the many other problems that it made worse for him. Didn't save him in the end mind but you can't really say to someone in his position you can't take advantage of a scheme that will make your life a lot less painful because you need to show solidarity with people who haven't got this.
Any blame for NHS shortages and any solution lies exclusively in Westminster.


----------



## ffsear (Sep 10, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> At a rate that makes a substantive impact then.



Ok,  but its only an insurance premium.  People who have private medical care aren't footing the entire bill.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 10, 2018)

ffsear said:


> Doesn't private health care take people out of the NHS system, even though they still pay into it ?


No it in no way takes people out of the NHS and indeed most private healthcare schemes don't cover things like emergency care
The main benefits of being in a private healthcare scheme are not having to queue for non-urgent treatments or getting a nice room and fancy food in a private hospital and of course for most people a warm feeling of security and being more in control of your own destiny something most people put a very high premium on.


----------



## ffsear (Sep 10, 2018)

MickiQ said:


> No it in no way takes people out of the NHS and indeed most private healthcare schemes don't cover things like emergency care
> The main benefits of being in a private healthcare scheme are not having to queue for non-urgent treatments or getting a nice room and fancy food in a private hospital and of course for most people a warm feeling of security and being more in control of your own destiny something most people put a very high premium on.



I agree mostly,  but the pick and choose nature of private health care is problematic.  Throwing all the pre existing conditions back into the NHS system.


----------



## MickiQ (Sep 10, 2018)

ffsear said:


> I agree mostly,  but the pick and choose nature of private health care is problematic.  Throwing all the pre existing conditions back into the NHS system.


Agree totally, which is why private healthcare insurance is so cheap in this country all the realy problem cases are dumped on the public system, I had American colleagues (big American global corp) that could not grasp why I didn't think under $200 a month was a bargain when they paid $1000 for something that would cost them 10x as much if they bought it privately.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 11, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> I've put the brixton forum on ignore. I was genuinely shocked last time i even looked in there. You're right though, i just can't face it  because of time issues at the minute. I don't know how you gramsci and others can keep going at times.



Its why I started on U75. Urban was originally a Brixton website then expanded. I don't give up on it so far. As its important to me as I live in the srea. And its where U75 started. Though Ive been wondering if I can hack it much longer. Just had to deal with right wing post on gentrification this evening. Depressing.


----------



## chilango (Sep 11, 2018)

And, you know, there is no such thing as Urban. There are individual posters and their numerous PMs of support...


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Its why I started on U75. Urban was originally a Brixton website then expanded. I don't give up on it so far. As its important to me as I live in the srea. And its where U75 started. Though Ive been wondering if I can hack it much longer. Just had to deal with right wing post on gentrification this evening. Depressing.


I feel your pain but a change is going to come.


----------



## Dom Traynor (Sep 12, 2018)

editor said:


> I feel your pain but a change is going to come.


You should start a Lambeth politics forum.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2018)

chilango said:


> And, you know, there is no such thing as Urban. There are individual posters and their numerous PMs of support...



MArgaret, is that you?


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 13, 2018)

I quite like brewdog. I like the 330ml size cans. A pint is sometimes a bit much, and those French beers are too small.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 13, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> I quite like brewdog. I like the 330ml size cans. A pint is sometimes a bit much, and those French beers are too small.


What an interesting time to make your first post on the thread. Transparent shit stirrer.


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 13, 2018)

Im a lurker, occasional poster on this sub-forum, and currently drinking a can of Brewdog Indie. I noticed earlier today, the only other 330ml cans in the shop were Estrella. I thought it relevant.


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> What an interesting time to make your first post on the thread. Transparent shit stirrer.


And a completely inane post at that.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 15, 2018)

SpamMisery said:


> Im a lurker, occasional poster on this sub-forum, and currently drinking a can of Brewdog Indie. I noticed earlier today, the only other 330ml cans in the shop were Estrella. I thought it relevant.


How is you liking their can sizes relevant on a thread about how shit brewdog are as a company and an employer?


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 15, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> How is you liking their can sizes relevant on a thread about how shit brewdog are as a company and an employer?


The point is to kick the editor in the ribs. That seems to be the only point of this brixton pricks forum existence.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 15, 2018)

butchersapron said:


> The point is to kick the editor in the ribs. That seems to be the only point of this brixton pricks forum existence.


What a twat. Bit out of order that. Shame on you SpamMisery


----------



## SpamMisery (Sep 15, 2018)

If someone's delicate enough to take someone else liking a particular beer can size as a "kick in the ribs", then the politics forum may not be for them.


----------



## butchersapron (Sep 15, 2018)

Shit stirring cunt.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 15, 2018)

I don't even know why you post here SpamMisery, clearly you don't like it and just want to have a go at editor. 

Please do the forum a favour and fuck off.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 16, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> I don't even know why you post here SpamMisery, clearly you don't like it and just want to have a go at editor.
> 
> Please do the forum a favour and fuck off.



Spam enjoys this. Its what he came on Brixton forum for. And its not only directed at Ed.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> I don't even know why you post here SpamMisery, clearly you don't like it and just want to have a go at editor.
> 
> Please do the forum a favour and fuck off.


I'm banning him for a month for repeated clear breaches of the 'Don't be a dick' rule. I doubt if he will be missed.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 16, 2018)

editor said:


> I'm banning him for a month for repeated clear breaches of the 'Don't be a dick' rule. I doubt if he will be missed.


I 've taught graduates I work with in real life that rule. It's a good one.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 16, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> I 've taught graduates I work with in real life that rule. It's a good one.


It's certainly a handy one if you're the person enforcing it.


----------



## alcopop (Sep 16, 2018)

teuchter said:


> It's certainly a handy one if you're the person enforcing it.


Quis custodies custodiet


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2018)

At least this thread is highlighting the kind of shit the Brixton forum has to constantly put up with. And alcopop  is now banned from this thread.


----------



## mojo pixy (Sep 16, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Quis custodies custodiet



I love it when people try to sound clever by using Latin and get it completely wrong


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 16, 2018)

alcopop said:


> Quis custodies custodiet



Big Harry the Hatchet does. Wanna tell him he's been doing a bad job?


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 16, 2018)

teuchter said:


> It's certainly a handy one if you're the person enforcing it.



I've been asking for Spam to be banned from Brixton forum for some time. 

Got a problem with that?


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 16, 2018)

editor said:


> At least this thread is highlighting the kind of shit the Brixton forum has to constantly put up with. And alcopop  is now banned from this thread.



Yes it does. I notice it doesn't go down so well on this forum.


----------



## editor (Sep 16, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> Yes it does. I notice it doesn't go down so well on this forum.


It certainly backfired miserably and it revealed just how disruptive and unpleasant their conduct can be, which is giving me food for thought about how the Brixton forum can continue.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 17, 2018)

Gramsci said:


> I've been asking for Spam to be banned from Brixton forum for some time.
> 
> Got a problem with that?


All I can say is that banning more and more people isn't going to solve any problems in the Brixton forum. Maybe we disagree on that.


----------



## Gramsci (Sep 17, 2018)

teuchter said:


> All I can say is that banning more and more people isn't going to solve any problems in the Brixton forum. Maybe we disagree on that.



I was asking about Spam. You haven't answered my question.


----------



## editor (Sep 17, 2018)

A reminder: this is a thread about Brewdog, not about the Brixton forum, despite several posters from that forum transparently following me here to try and piss about. Any further posts relating to Brixton or the moderation of that forum will be deleted.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 27, 2018)

On the thread topic, brewdog have cancelled some kind of deal with US brewer scofflaw, after the latter promised to give free beers to trump supporters. 

Which is something, at least. 

Brewdog scraps beer deal over Trump offer


----------



## editor (Sep 27, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> On the thread topic, brewdog have cancelled some kind of deal with US brewer scofflaw, after the latter promised to give free beers to trump supporters.
> 
> Which is something, at least.
> 
> Brewdog scraps beer deal over Trump offer





> We care about beer and people. Not hate.


Unless you're a worker at Brewdog whose going blind.


----------



## spitfire (Sep 27, 2018)

Someone has fucked up somewhere. Don't know whether it was the PR firm or Brewdog but it's not a good look. 

Twats. A plague on all their houses.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 27, 2018)

editor said:


> Unless you're a worker at Brewdog whose going blind.



Quite an interesting story that.  One mainly feels sorry for the guy whose eyesight is just going to progressively deteriorate (Stargadt disease I think it's called).  Working on a packaging/canning line is presumably a potentially dangerous activity if you don't have the typical levels of visual acuity that many have.  And so I can see how they'd want to manage that risk for both themselves and the worker.

On the other hand, it seems the HR person responsible didn't follow the RNIB's prescribed set of measures/adjustments to work out whether he could still carry out the role effectively and ensure no danger to himself or others.  Massive failing on the part of HR.  Even if they did offer him alternative roles in the company to try and keep him - which sound like they may have been totally inappropriate in any case.  It may have been if his eyesight deteriorated so far that he would have to have been removed from the role in any case (and to the benefit of everybody), but at least for the time being he could have been allowed to continue with the right concessions/adjustments to his working environment.  So they certainly got that wrong, massively.  And that's fairly typical of a business that experiences exponential growth (while not HR related, look at some of the funky new energy companies that have great aims but then suddenly can't cope with the massive influx of customers and then end up letting them down).

I have a friend who is an ex-colleague from my last company who has albinism, and struggles with the desk she has been given (light from the windows makes it harder for her to see her monitor, as well as being on the end of a set of desks meaning it's quite noisy).  She moans but gets on with it.  She is brilliant at her job though (and everything else - you should see her crossing a busy road after several beers).  But I wish the office manager/HR person (who is also largely brilliant but overworked) would take her more seriously.  But my colleague doesn't like to make a fuss because she feels it makes her look weak.  Which she is anything but.  And after extensive discussions, what we've taken from it is that the office manager simply doesn't have the training or the personality to be able to discuss her disability (as she calls it) in a frank and open manner that makes it easy for a solution to be found.

Brewdog could certainly have found a better way to deal with the situation to everybody's best interest - and in keeping with HR legislation. They deserved the fine.  I imagine after all that they have probably upped their game to ensure they have a better understanding of HR legislation and how to deal with such situations in the future.  I hope so anyway.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 27, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> On the thread topic, brewdog have cancelled some kind of deal with US brewer scofflaw, after the latter promised to give free beers to trump supporters.
> 
> Which is something, at least.
> 
> Brewdog scraps beer deal over Trump offer



That's a good, bold statement from Brewdog.  One of the most misguided press releases/promotions I've ever seen.  What a bunch of cunts.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 27, 2018)

editor said:


> Unless you're a worker at Brewdog whose going blind.


I didn't say it was a big thing, and they're still a bunch of utter cunts for what they did to their worker. 

Interesting that even they thought scofflaw had gone too far.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 27, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Quite an interesting story that.  One mainly feels sorry for the guy whose eyesight is just going to progressively deteriorate (Stargadt disease I think it's called).  Working on a packaging/canning line is presumably a potentially dangerous activity if you don't have the typical levels of visual acuity that many have.  And so I can see how they'd want to manage that risk for both themselves and the worker.
> 
> On the other hand, it seems the HR person responsible didn't follow the RNIB's prescribed set of measures/adjustments to work out whether he could still carry out the role effectively and ensure no danger to himself or others.  Massive failing on the part of HR.  Even if they did offer him alternative roles in the company to try and keep him - which sound like they may have been totally inappropriate in any case.  It may have been if his eyesight deteriorated so far that he would have to have been removed from the role in any case (and to the benefit of everybody), but at least for the time being he could have been allowed to continue with the right concessions/adjustments to his working environment.  So they certainly got that wrong, massively.  And that's fairly typical of a business that experiences exponential growth (while not HR related, look at some of the funky new energy companies that have great aims but then suddenly can't cope with the massive influx of customers and then end up letting them down).
> 
> ...


The summaries I read of the tribunal case were pretty clear - Brewdog were basically given everything they needed to help the worker, yet they chose not to. They also chose not to learn about how to manage worker disabilities. There are tons of free and low cost resources from unions and ACAS to educate on topics like this.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 27, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> The summaries I read of the tribunal case were pretty clear - Brewdog were basically given everything they needed to help the worker, yet they chose not to. They also chose not to learn about how to manage worker disabilities. There are tons of free and low cost resources from unions and ACAS to educate on topics like this.



I wouldn't disagree.  Your first two sentences say the same though?  They were given everything they needed to help the worker, but didn't (either though active informed choice i.e. they didn't care or feel like it, or ignorance such that they were incompetent), and they *also* chose not to learn how to manage the worker disabilities?  

Sounds like they fucked up massively, as per my post. Just interested what the tribunal notes actually said.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 27, 2018)

I asked earlier in the thread where we can read the tribunal notes.


----------



## Teaboy (Sep 28, 2018)

discobastard said:


> Quite an interesting story that.  One mainly feels sorry for the guy whose eyesight is just going to progressively deteriorate (Stargadt disease I think it's called).  Working on a packaging/canning line is presumably a potentially dangerous activity if you don't have the typical levels of visual acuity that many have.  And so I can see how they'd want to manage that risk for both themselves and the worker.
> 
> On the other hand, it seems the HR person responsible didn't follow the RNIB's prescribed set of measures/adjustments to work out whether he could still carry out the role effectively and ensure no danger to himself or others.  Massive failing on the part of HR.  Even if they did offer him alternative roles in the company to try and keep him - which sound like they may have been totally inappropriate in any case.  It may have been if his eyesight deteriorated so far that he would have to have been removed from the role in any case (and to the benefit of everybody), but at least for the time being he could have been allowed to continue with the right concessions/adjustments to his working environment.  So they certainly got that wrong, massively.  And that's fairly typical of a business that experiences exponential growth (while not HR related, look at some of the funky new energy companies that have great aims but then suddenly can't cope with the massive influx of customers and then end up letting them down).
> 
> ...



Basically HR did what HR do in every company.  They are, to a person, incompetent parasites who see their primary purpose to cover up the boss's drink driving conviction and manage out of the company young female employees who have made complaints about the unwanted sexual advances / sexual assaults from the bosses.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 28, 2018)

discobastard said:


> I wouldn't disagree.  Your first two sentences say the same though?  They were given everything they needed to help the worker, but didn't (either though active informed choice i.e. they didn't care or feel like it, or ignorance such that they were incompetent), and they *also* chose not to learn how to manage the worker disabilities?
> 
> Sounds like they fucked up massively, as per my post. Just interested what the tribunal notes actually said.


Tribunal decisions are available for free online now, so anyone can access them. 

I'm of the belief that they chose not to do anything because they were given everything they needed to help him keep his job, then didn't, which was a breach of the equalities act 2010. The RNIB would have made their obligations under law very clear.


----------



## alex_ (Sep 28, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Basically HR did what HR do in every company.  They are, to a person, incompetent parasites who see their primary purpose to cover up the boss's drink driving conviction and manage out of the company young female employees who have made complaints about the unwanted sexual advances / sexual assaults from the bosses.



Agree on all counts here - managing to appoint an hr person, presumably a senior hr person AND a lawyer none of whom appeared to know anything about the dda is spectacularly incompetent.

The reason most stuff like this doesn’t go to tribunal is that someone somewhere along the way manages to pick this up and say “you’ve broken the law. You are going to get turned over in the tribunal. Pay them off”

The reputational damage to brewdog here is ridiculous - they’ve gone from being marmite to being stone cold cunts. And incompetent cunts at that.

Btw while I’ve pointed out up thread that they pay llw, they are cunts of the highest order and I thought that before this specific incident.

Alex


----------



## teuchter (Sep 28, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> Tribunal decisions are available for free online now, so anyone can access them.



I haven't been able to find any details of this tribunal online.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 28, 2018)

Now that anyone can look at tribunal decisions for free, I suspect there will a) be more companies paying to settle (if they are not stupid) and b) greater acts of law breaking exposed (if they are stupid/ shortsighted etc). No tribunal fees means more cases will get filed again. 

Companies shouldn't break the law of course, but if they do, they should face the consequences. 

The founders of Brewdog went to the same uni I did. Alumni publications have featured them in the past. I have asked the alumni office why they feature a pair who have such terrible attitudes to women, but no answer.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 28, 2018)

equationgirl said:


> On the thread topic, brewdog have cancelled some kind of deal with US brewer scofflaw, after the latter promised to give free beers to trump supporters.
> 
> Which is something, at least.
> 
> Brewdog scraps beer deal over Trump offer



Frankly, sounds like another shitty Spewdog publicity stunt.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 28, 2018)

teuchter said:


> I haven't been able to find any details of this tribunal online.



Then you obviously haven't been looking hard enough, you fucking lazy cunt:

Mr R Meade v Brewdog Ltd: 2200921/2017

First page of results when Googling "brewdog employment tribunal blind".

You fucking twat.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 28, 2018)

NoXion said:


> Then you obviously haven't been looking hard enough, you fucking lazy cunt:
> 
> Mr R Meade v Brewdog Ltd: 2200921/2017
> 
> ...


It may be the on the first page of results; however, if you'd taken a close look at it you might have noticed that the claimant name does not match, the date is wrong, it records a decision where the claimant was unsuccessful and the claim was dismissed, and in any case it has no details of the case other than what the decision was, which, for the one we have been discussing, we already know.


----------



## NoXion (Sep 28, 2018)

teuchter said:


> It may be the on the first page of results; however, if you'd taken a close look at it you might have noticed that the claimant name does not match, the date is wrong, it records a decision where the claimant was unsuccessful and the claim was dismissed, and in any case it has no details of the case other than what the decision was, which, for the one we have been discussing, we already know.



True, I posted in a rush on a noisy bus using a smartphone. In my naiveté I assumed that there would be only one case turning up in the results with the search terms that I used.

So it turns out that BrewDog have previous for being cunts to their employees, and you're still a passive-aggressive cunt.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 29, 2018)

NoXion said:


> True, I posted in a rush on a noisy bus using a smartphone. In my naiveté I assumed that there would be only one case turning up in the results with the search terms that I used.
> 
> So it turns out that BrewDog have previous for being cunts to their employees, and you're still a passive-aggressive cunt.



You decided to definitely not go down the gracious apology route then 

Thanks for your continued active-agressive shoutings.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 30, 2018)

Fight!


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 30, 2018)

NoXion said:


> So it turns out that BrewDog have previous for being cunts to their employees, and you're still a passive-aggressive cunt.


he's an award-winning passive-aggressive cunt, having competed at local, regional, national and indeed international level where his passive-aggressive cuntery has been recognised by many prizes and citations.


----------



## editor (Sep 30, 2018)

The fuckers even had their shitty city-boy cod-punk bars in Barcelona FFS.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 30, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Basically HR did what HR do in every company.  They are, to a person, incompetent parasites who see their primary purpose to cover up the boss's drink driving conviction and manage out of the company young female employees who have made complaints about the unwanted sexual advances / sexual assaults from the bosses.


This is one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever read on Urban.  And I think that says something.  

*Really* fucking stupid, thick, ignorant post.  

Quite impressive in a way.


----------



## alex_ (Oct 1, 2018)

discobastard said:


> This is one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever read on Urban.  And I think that says something.
> 
> *Really* fucking stupid, thick, ignorant post.
> 
> Quite impressive in a way.



HR’s job in most places, IS to protect the company.

But generally they don’t do this by losing in tribunals.

Alex


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 1, 2018)

discobastard said:


> This is one of the dumbest posts I’ve ever read on Urban.  And I think that says something.
> 
> *Really* fucking stupid, thick, ignorant post.
> 
> Quite impressive in a way.



Oh dear.  Did it not occur to you that there is a reason why I've formed my view over HR.  I've seen what I said happen in companies time and time again.  Everything was based on actual incidents.  Perhaps you'd like to think again, or at the very least think for a 1st time - if you're capable of such an action that is.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 1, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Oh dear.  Did it not occur to you that there is a reason why I've formed my view over HR.  I've seen what I said happen in companies time and time again.  Everything was based on actual incidents.  Perhaps you'd like to think again, or at the very least think for a 1st time - if you're capable of such an action that is.


Impressive that you have worked for every company in the world and analysed the behaviour and motivations of every single person in the PR department of each of them.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 1, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> Oh dear.  Did it not occur to you that there is a reason why I've formed my view over HR.  I've seen what I said happen in companies time and time again.  Everything was based on actual incidents.  Perhaps you'd like to think again, or at the very least think for a 1st time - if you're capable of such an action that is.


Absolutely dreadful attempt at an insult btw.  

So, you talk of two scenarios. Both of which involve criminal behaviour. How many times have you seen each? (‘Time and time again’)
Why did you not report this criminal behaviour the the police? 

You’ll have to do a lot better that that.


----------



## editor (Nov 2, 2018)

Plucky punky underdogs BrewDog are launching an airline to help shift their beer. 



> Craft beer brewer BrewDog has already announced it's opening a bespoke beer hotel in Aberdeenshire which will have beer taps in guest rooms.
> 
> Now, it has revealed that it's launching the world’s first-ever craft beer airline with the inaugural flight taking off in February next year.
> 
> ...


This is what The Clash fought for! 

BrewDog launch world’s first craft beer airline


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 2, 2018)

editor said:


> Plucky punky underdogs BrewDog are launching an airline to help shift their beer.
> 
> This is what The Clash fought for!
> 
> BrewDog launch world’s first craft beer airline


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 2, 2018)

On a shonky old 767 as well.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 3, 2018)

Christ on a pogostick it just gets worse.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Nov 3, 2018)

Just right for going on a holiday in Cambodia.


----------



## hash tag (Nov 3, 2018)

I have a good mate who is out in Cambodia at the moment and he onlyvdrinks fizzy pop


----------



## SpamMisery (Nov 27, 2018)

Tonight I'm drinking "cybernaut". Seems alright. Can't really differentiate it it from the others, but they all seem ok to me. Except Elvis Juice which is awful and the non alcoholic one which has a funny aftertaste


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 27, 2018)

Teaboy said:


> On a shonky old 767 as well.


Superb marketing though, tbf. I'm not a fan of their beer but it's a very good looking business.


----------



## editor (May 16, 2019)

Brewdog wankers continuing to be wankers. 



BrewDog Punk AF launch sours: 'The idea is clearly derived from our pitch' says ex-agency


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 16, 2019)

Are we supposed to get all angry on behalf of a marketing agency now?


----------



## Rosemary Jest (May 16, 2019)

Punk Anti Fascist?

You can commodify anything these days.


----------



## editor (May 16, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Are we supposed to get all angry on behalf of a marketing agency now?


Just noting how awfully punk the company are.


----------



## JimW (May 16, 2019)

Punk as Fuck Shirley? Playing on alcohol free initialism.


----------



## editor (May 16, 2019)

How can a fucking beer have 'attitude'? Stupid culture vampire cunts


----------



## editor (May 16, 2019)

Ooh, this is interesting
People Start Calling Out This Multinational Brewery For Stealing Their Marketing Ideas Through Fake Job Interviews (Updated With Comment From Brewdog)


----------



## salem (May 16, 2019)

Great article on their new "not an advertising campaign" advertising campaign.

BrewDog needs to be honest with itself about its 'honest' new ad



> about as punk as Green Day in 2004 when the band released American Idiot


----------



## editor (May 16, 2019)

salem said:


> Great article on their new "not an advertising campaign" advertising campaign.
> 
> BrewDog needs to be honest with itself about its 'honest' new ad





> Back in 2013, Watt said he would “rather take my money and set fire to it” than spend it on advertising, adding: “It’s the antithesis of everything we stand for and everything we believe in. It’s a medium that is shallow, it’s fake and we want nothing to do with it.”
> 
> Yet times change. Fast-forward six years and BrewDog clearly sees that marketing is worth investing in. And it is prepared to pay for it, both in terms of creative agency fees and media spend.
> 
> ...





> That same year, in a move that goes against everything it claims to stand for, it threatened legal action against a small independent pub in Birmingham called Lone Wolf (a trademark owned by BrewDog) as well as against another bar for using ‘punk’ in its name. Not exactly very punk, punk.


Such shitehawks.


----------



## billy_bob (May 16, 2019)

Their beer's still shite, too. And there's even less reason to settle for it than when this conversation started. These days there are several bottle shops and specialist craft beer outlets within easy reach even of a provincial hick like me, along with the reintroduction of decent cask ales at most pubs that had already happened.


----------



## Teaboy (May 16, 2019)

£1.4m profit on a turnover of £111.6m? 

Fucking hell, either they're a right fucking mess behind the scenes or some people are dipping the till on a massive scale.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 16, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> £1.4m profit on a turnover of £111.6m?
> 
> Fucking hell, either they're a right fucking mess behind the scenes or some people are dipping the till on a massive scale.



All part of paying as little tax as possible though isn't it. It's exactly what Amazon do too.


----------



## chilango (May 16, 2019)

editor said:


> How can a fucking beer have 'attitude'? Stupid culture vampire cunts



Something something commodity fetishism something something the socialization of objects something something profit.


----------



## teuchter (May 16, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> Their beer's still shite, too. And there's even less reason to settle for it than when this conversation started. These days there are several bottle shops and specialist craft beer outlets within easy reach even of a provincial hick like me, along with the reintroduction of decent cask ales at most pubs that had already happened.


Still just about the only mainstream brewery doing a non-alcoholic beer that isn't watery lager though.


----------



## Teaboy (May 16, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> All part of paying as little tax as possible though isn't it. It's exactly what Amazon do too.



In general you're right but the likes of Amazon funnel it through countries where tax is low.  Brewdog are a solely British company so unless they are actually based in Liechtenstein (or somewhere akin) they are either hiding profits somehow, extracting money in huge executive salaries (very punk) or just shit.


----------



## Rosemary Jest (May 16, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Still just about the only mainstream brewery doing a non-alcoholic beer that isn't watery lager though.



There's loads these days, Erdinger is the best I've tried and is generally widely available, even in pubs my way.


----------



## salem (May 16, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> In general you're right but the likes of Amazon funnel it through countries where tax is low.  Brewdog are a solely British company so unless they are actually based in Liechtenstein (or somewhere akin) they are either hiding profits somehow, extracting money in huge executive salaries (very punk) or just shit.



I think they're pushing for growth at all costs - big push into the US, pub openings, advertising and probably big kickbacks to get into the supermarkets. All will hit short term profits - even if their blugh '_equity punks_' are helping cover the costs of that.

I was surprised their turnover is so low tbh, even as an avid hater of the brand I've still not being able to avoid drinking their stuff from time to time as it's so ubiquitous and some people seem to actively like them. I'd have thought they'd be turning over a chunk more than that.


----------



## teuchter (May 16, 2019)

Rosemary Jest said:


> There's loads these days, Erdinger is the best I've tried and is generally widely available, even in pubs my way.


Yes there's that if you like weissbier.
My experience is that if a pub/bar has alcohol-free it'll most likely be something bland like Becks blue.
A bit less common but not unusual is Nanny State. Maybe a similar level of likelihood is Erdinger.
I'd not say there's loads out there, if you are in a pub. It's slowly getting better though.


----------



## Rosemary Jest (May 16, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Yes there's that if you like weissbier.
> My experience is that if a pub/bar has alcohol-free it'll most likely be something bland like Becks blue.
> A bit less common but not unusual is Nanny State. Maybe a similar level of likelihood is Erdinger.
> I'd not say there's loads out there, if you are in a pub. It's slowly getting better though.



Still better than drinking Brewdog though. I'd rather have a lemonade after reading this thread.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 16, 2019)

Whatever happened to Shandy Bass? I'd rather drink that. Used to love it as a kid.


----------



## Teaboy (May 16, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Whatever happened to Shandy Bass? I'd rather drink that. Used to love it as a kid.



Its still around if you find the right tab shop.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 16, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Its still around if you find the right tab shop.



I've googled for it and can't see it for sale anywhere. 

Whats a tab shop?


----------



## Teaboy (May 16, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> I've googled for it and can't see it for sale anywhere.
> 
> Whats a tab shop?



Independent convenience store that sells booze, crisps, soft drinks etc.  Just the sort of shop that is everywhere.  The tab bit comes from slang for fags.

Well, I had a can recently which makes me want to check the use by date next time.

ETA: Its still going strong, is google broken at your end of something?

https://www.bestwaywholesale.co.uk/product/358808-1


----------



## Rosemary Jest (May 16, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> Whatever happened to Shandy Bass? I'd rather drink that. Used to love it as a kid.



Yeah, what Teaboy said. I even think some supermarkets might still sell it. Sainsbury's used to anyway, in big 2 litre bottles. Ideal for a shandy sesh.


----------



## discobastard (May 16, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Yes there's that if you like weissbier.
> My experience is that if a pub/bar has alcohol-free it'll most likely be something bland like Becks blue.
> A bit less common but not unusual is Nanny State. Maybe a similar level of likelihood is Erdinger.
> I'd not say there's loads out there, if you are in a pub. It's slowly getting better though.



Been meaning to post about alcohol free beers on another thread (which I will).  I have tried a lot of them recently.  In summary:

Heineken 00 is actually pretty good because it tastes like Heineken (I just don't like lager).  Becks Blue is nowhere near as good.

Nanny State I think is really not great, very bland flat taste with no bite.  Brewdog Raspberry Blitz is an alcohol free sour, which is actually quite decent if you like that kind of thing.

I thought Erdinger was dreadful.

NIrvana Brewery do AF only - they have a number of pale ales of which 'Sutra' is by really good - not immediately obvious it has no (or v little) alcohol in it.  After a bottle of this I had a bottle of Thornbridge Big Easy which had a great aroma but fell flat on taste in comparison (a bit like Nanny State - no bite or aftertaste).

Buy Nirvana Beers Online | Nirvana Brewery

Big Drop brewery are also AF only.  Their Brown Ale and Winter Ales are really good (the Sour less so).  They also have a Pale Ale and Citra Four Hop IPA.  The former is pretty good but the Citra Four Hop IPA is excellent and by far the best AF I've tasted.  The first time I had it, it wasn't immediately obvious it was AF.  You can buy it online at drydrinker for £1.79 a bottle.  So that and Nirvana Sutra are probably the best bets if you like pale ale.  Just hard to find.

To drink. Not to be drunk. | Big Drop Brewing Co

As I said, I'm not really a lager drinking but I did have a couple of cans of Pistonhead Flat Tyre AF and that was pretty decent.

I haven't tried Adnam's Ghost Ship AF yet but am keen to do so, just not seen it on sale anywhere.  I also want to try Infinity Session Pale.

Totally agree that the pubs (even the specialist craft beer places) aren't making much effort to stock this stuff.  They need to up their game.

The same goes for some of the supermarkets/retailers.


----------



## teuchter (May 16, 2019)

They do.

But pubs have been utterly useless in offering anything non-alcoholic that (a) tastes any good and (b) you can drink a fair bit of (that is, have the same number of drinks as booze drinking friends) since forever.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 16, 2019)

Didn't like the Heineken - there is still a load of it my fridge which I use to make beer batter with (it's fine for that).


----------



## NoXion (May 16, 2019)

Literally do not see the point of non-alcoholic beers. No fucking way they taste as good without it. Alcohol gets you pissed but don't you dare try telling me that it doesn't contribute to the overall flavour of a beer.


----------



## teuchter (May 16, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Literally do not see the point of non-alcoholic beers. No fucking way they taste as good without it. Alcohol gets you pissed but don't you dare try telling me that it doesn't contribute to the overall flavour of a beer.


Maybe people would get less worked up about it if it just had a different name.


----------



## discobastard (May 16, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Literally do not see the point of non-alcoholic beers. No fucking way they taste as good without it. Alcohol gets you pissed but don't you dare try telling me that it doesn't contribute to the overall flavour of a beer.



Have you ever considered the fact that there may be people with different experiences to yours?  People that may have found themselves with an alcohol problem (for example) that may choose to (or need to) stop drinking.  Or others that simply don't want to get drunk?  Should they therefore be only allowed to drink diet Coke or J2O in pubs when socialising with friends?

You might not see the point but perhaps you can see how that might come across as quite an arrogant or ignorant point of view to some others.

Oh, and _'don't you dare try telling me that it doesn't contribute to the overall flavour of a beer'.  _I don't think anybody has said that have they?  Have you bothered to read any of the posts here?   Do you understand how the supply of and demand for goods works?  It's a fairly basic principle.

I was in a craft beer bar recently and asked if they had any non alcoholic beers.  They said they had Becks Blue (which is disappointing in itself for the kind of bar I was in).  I said go on then I'll have one of those.  They said, oh, we've run out sorry (bet they never run out of the other bottles).  And the guy stood next to me at the bar said 'well, non-alcoholic beer is a shit idea anyway ahahaha'.  What a great guy eh?  *He* knows what is and isn't good for me.  He was a fucking prick.

It's not all about you is it.  Interested to hear what you think about that.

ETA: It's interesting to see quite a few people liking the quoted post - be keen to hear why others think there is 'no point' to non-alcoholic beers, which tends to suggest that those who choose not to drink should have their choices suppressed - but maybe I've misinterpreted that?  Happy to be proved wrong.


----------



## discobastard (May 16, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Maybe people would get less worked up about it if it just had a different name.



Are people worked up about it?  Apart from NoXion that is...

And it's still beer.  Most of the 'non-alcoholic' beers are still 0.5%.  You can either remove the alcohol post brew (by boiling it off which also boils off a lot of the flavour) or there are other methods (vacuum and osmosis) which keep more of the flavour.

Some of the newer techniques can be expensive which is why there are few decent ones around, but that will change over the next few years, believe me.


----------



## teuchter (May 16, 2019)

It does seem a little bit odd to be fine with the idea that things anywhere in the range between about 2 and 9% (and the difference that makes to flavour) all count as 'beer' but not in the 0-0.5% range.


----------



## discobastard (May 16, 2019)

teuchter said:


> It does seem a little bit odd to be fine with the idea that things anywhere in the range between about 2 and 9% (and the difference that makes to flavour) all count as 'beer' but not in the 0-0.5% range.



According to whom though?  *I* think it's beer.  Who doesn't think it's beer?  It's just a construct.  It's not fixed.  Those that want to argue otherwise have the same kind of mindset that say 'Dr Who is a man, and a female shouldn't have been cast because a being that can change it's appearance shouldn't change *_that*_ part of their appearance because 'male' is my conception of the Dr'.


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## William of Walworth (May 16, 2019)

I get peoples' need and/or wish to drink non-alcoholic beer (or low-alcohol), and I think discobastard 's review above of current choices was really informative 

As a professional real ale researcher in pubs and festivals, I cant say I'm *all* that tempted (or *at all* tempted   ) to test the nought-percenters myself, except for comparative purposes  .... or perhaps on their own in some blind-test to see if I could *really* tell that there was no alcohol present. Challenge!

But fair enough generally!


----------



## discobastard (May 17, 2019)

William of Walworth said:


> I get peoples' need and/or wish to drink non-alcoholic beer (or low-alcohol), and I think discobastard 's review above of current choices was really informative
> 
> As a professional real ale researcher in pubs and festivals, I cant say I'm *all* that tempted (or *at all* tempted   ) to test the nought-percenters myself, except for comparative purposes  .... or perhaps on their own in some blind-test to see if I could *really* tell that there was no alcohol present. Challenge!
> 
> But fair enough generally!



That's a sensible and thoughtful answer.  Not long ago I was somebody who (albeit not professionally) used to review real ales (and I'm from Yorkshire where the ale is *really* real!)  But my view on alcohol has changed in the past year or so.

See what happened with smoking/vaping.  Not quite the same thing, but habits/trends change significantly over a 2-3 year period.

And having had a conversation in the London Beer Factory a couple of hours ago, there's no real difference between sitting in a craft beer bar and (with apologies to Stewart Lee) drinking a few pints of 8% Gandalf's Memory Stick @ £6 a pop, and sitting on a park bench drinking four cans of Special Brew.  Except Special Brew is a third of the price (I'm guessing - I have no idea what Special Brew cost in a tab shop these days).


----------



## William of Walworth (May 17, 2019)

discobastard : Thanks for that. I'm not that 'professional' to be fair, the above was a semi-joke and I should have added   (    )

But we *do* help organise Swansea's beerfest in August, festivaldeb was once the chairwoman, I wonder what could possibly have attracted me? 
That's the second biggest in Wales, and we contribute a lot to picking good choices, by means of checking them out in various trips to other beerfests (Gloucester BF on Saturday  ), as well as just going to pubs ....

If I ever needed/wanted to go no or low, I'd *really* want alc-free options that tasted good rather than shite. Hence my attempt to be understanding about your post and where you were coming from.

By the way, Brew is far from cheap in shops these days!


----------



## teuchter (May 17, 2019)

William of Walworth said:


> discobastard : Thanks for that. I'm not that 'professional' to be fair, the above was a semi-joke and I should have added   (    )
> 
> But we *do* help organise Swansea's beerfest in August, festivaldeb was once the chairwoman, I wonder what could possibly have attracted me?
> That's the second biggest in Wales, and we contribute a lot to picking good choices, by means of checking them out in various trips to other beerfests (Gloucester BF on Saturday  ), as well as just going to pubs ....
> ...


If you help organise a beerfest - then I'm going to suggest it's your duty to test some non or zero alcohol beers, and include the best ones in your festival.


----------



## mwgdrwg (May 17, 2019)

Do you have 'Home Bargains' down south? I think I got a Shandy Bass (or maybe it was a Top Deck) from there It tasted like chemicals, gross. Used to absolutely love it as a kid.


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 17, 2019)

mwgdrwg said:


> Do you have 'Home Bargains' down south? I think I got a Shandy Bass (or maybe it was a Top Deck) from there It tasted like chemicals, gross. Used to absolutely love it as a kid.



They're fucking around with loads of soft drinks these days because of the sugar tax, so possibly this has also been affected.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 17, 2019)

teuchter said:


> If you help organise a beerfest - then I'm going to suggest it's your duty to test some non or zero alcohol beers, and include the best ones in your festival.



Just seen this. In previous festivals (I've been involved since 2009, festivaldeb for longer) our lowest % beer to date has been approx 3.2% or so, we have small number around that kind of strength (milds/light ales etc.). I _will_ chat with my friend who's in charge this year of organising the list/sourcing the beers ... but I have a sneaking suspicion (him being a brewer by trade!) that he might not be too receptive to 0% to 2% beers. As might not our informal committee and wider membership!

I think for now all *+I+* might do is test one or two non-alcs, like you suggest.


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## killer b (May 17, 2019)

Beer festivals should give more consideration for the non-drinking attendees - people come long distances for them which means there's often a driver, who then has to spend the day drinking flat coke while their partners wank on about hops. Even if you don't have any interest in non-alcoholic options yourself, it's only good manners to make sure your non-drinking attendees aren't totally bored to death.


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## FridgeMagnet (May 17, 2019)

It does feel pretty absurd to talk about what is a "proper beer" generally, outside of jokes, when the concept changes by the decade, and looking back further even the ingredients and methods have regularly been radically different.

I may not like Brewdog's "punk" marketing at all but they do at least run a successful chain that provides just plain weird shit for sale. There are some good real ale pubs not too far from me in West London but none of them have the deliberately experimental range of the Brewdog.


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## teuchter (May 17, 2019)

William of Walworth said:


> but I have a sneaking suspicion (him being a brewer by trade!) that he might not be too receptive to 0% to 2% beers. As might not our informal committee and wider membership!



It would be interesting to ask them - as a serious question - why are they not receptive?

Because surely anyone who's seriously interested in beer (rather than getting drunk) shouldn't be using the alcohol content as a way of automatically discounting options.

There's certainly a lot of pretty dull alcohol-free beer out there - but the same applies to 'real' beer. Why not give some encouragement to the brewers who are working hard to make decent low- or no- alcohol beer. The brewer who can make a tasty 0.5% or even 1.5% beer is quite possibly a more skillful brewer than the one who can make 7% concoction the impact of which largely relies on the alcohol hit.

(By the way, having moved in the past few years to seldom drinking anything more than about 4% if I can help it, much of the 5% or 6% stuff that I previously liked now just tastes a bit 'chemical' like I'm drinking meths or something)


----------



## discobastard (May 17, 2019)

teuchter said:


> It would be interesting to ask them - as a serious question - why are they not receptive?
> 
> Because surely anyone who's seriously interested in beer (rather than getting drunk) shouldn't be using the alcohol content as a way of automatically discounting options.
> 
> ...



This is spot on.  The ‘variety’ we now have, with wonderful names like ‘Californishire’ and ‘Relax, it’s just a hazy IPA’ (actual beer names) with funky coloured labels convinces us they are legit artisan tastes. But many of them taste either ‘bad’ or just like loads of other pale ales. If they brew em they have to sell em otherwise it’s just money down the drain. Don’t get me wrong there are some great brews out there but at least 50% of them are shite, even if they’re called ‘Vectron Apocalypta’ (that one is made up.  As far as I know [emoji16])

It’s a great con. You’re basically drinking Special Brew still.

And ABV has rocketed over the years. A session ale in the 80s/90s was something around 3.5%, but now session IPAs are being sold at 4.6 and above. 

The worst part of it all is that if you choose to drink AF then you can get rinsed. We went to a craft beer bar(Art and Craft) in Croydon recently and they told us they no AF beers. So we went to the Green Dragon. All they had was bottles of Nanny State. So we had two of those..........

£5.05 a bottle. Fucking daylight robbery, given that duty is higher on high ABV (and it’s shit).  They sell Nanny State bottles in the Co-op for £1.40 (£1.99 for Punk IPA), and they must be still making a profit  on that.  

If you want to drink AF beers, nobody gives a shit or wants your custom. 

Interesting to see that nobody (inc NoXion) has come back to comment on  any of this.


----------



## 8ball (May 17, 2019)

I don't know about their "Punk AF", but their "Nanny State" alcohol free beer is the best one I've tasted by a country mile.


----------



## discobastard (May 17, 2019)

8ball said:


> I don't know about their "Punk AF", but their "Nanny State" alcohol free beer is the best one I've tasted by a country mile.


Seriously?!  What else have you tried AF?


----------



## 8ball (May 17, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Seriously?!  What else have you tried AF?



Everything I know of.  Any suggestions?


----------



## Rosemary Jest (May 18, 2019)

I tried a non alcoholic beer from Barcelona this week that you can get in Morrison's, it's quite nice, even smells like beer, even if the taste isn't 100%. Sorry, can't remember what it's called, comes in blue stubby cans.


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## teuchter (May 18, 2019)

I think nanny state is ok.


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## discobastard (May 18, 2019)

8ball said:


> Everything I know of.  Any suggestions?



See post no. 937:

BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff


----------



## 8ball (May 18, 2019)

discobastard said:


> See post no. 937:
> 
> BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff



Hmm.. will look up Sutra, though your faint praise of Heinekin is worrying.


----------



## discobastard (May 18, 2019)

8ball said:


> Hmm.. will look up Sutra, though your faint praise of Heinekin is worrying.



Let me be completely clear about this. 

Heineken 00 is not a nice drink. BUT if you like Heineken it tastes pretty much like the the alcohol version of.  And so in that respect it’s a pretty decent AF beer. 

I just don’t like lager, particularly stuff like Heineken.  There’s no praise (faint or otherwise) there. 

Get yourself some Sutra and Big Drop Citra IPA and let me know what you think.


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## discobastard (May 18, 2019)

teuchter said:


> I think nanny state is ok.


That’s faint praise indeed.  It’s really quite nasty when you compare it to the Big Drop and Nirvana stuff


----------



## 8ball (May 18, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Heineken 00 is not a nice drink. BUT if you like Heineken it tastes pretty much like the the alcohol version of.



That is a good clarification.  Though its anyone's guess what's going on with the tastebuds of people who like Heinekin.
Can you get Sutra and Big Drop IPA at supermarkets?


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## killer b (May 18, 2019)

8ball said:


> That is a good clarification.  Though its anyone's guess what's going on with the tastebuds of people who like Heinekin.
> Can you get Sutra and Big Drop IPA at supermarkets?


You can get big drop at the very big Tesco's stores. They also sell infinite session, which is also great.

Not seen sutra in the wild, but I didn't care for it that much.


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## NoXion (May 19, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Have you ever considered the fact that there may be people with different experiences to yours?  People that may have found themselves with an alcohol problem (for example) that may choose to (or need to) stop drinking.  Or others that simply don't want to get drunk?  Should they therefore be only allowed to drink diet Coke or J2O in pubs when socialising with friends?



Yes.



> You might not see the point but perhaps you can see how that might come across as quite an arrogant or ignorant point of view to some others.



Don't care.



> Oh, and _'don't you dare try telling me that it doesn't contribute to the overall flavour of a beer'.  _I don't think anybody has said that have they?  Have you bothered to read any of the posts here?   Do you understand how the supply of and demand for goods works?  It's a fairly basic principle.



Just forestalling any nonsense before it comes up.

Also, "supply and demand" can be used to justify the existence of any number of shitty products.



> I was in a craft beer bar recently and asked if they had any non alcoholic beers.  They said they had Becks Blue (which is disappointing in itself for the kind of bar I was in).  I said go on then I'll have one of those.  They said, oh, we've run out sorry (bet they never run out of the other bottles).  And the guy stood next to me at the bar said 'well, non-alcoholic beer is a shit idea anyway ahahaha'.  What a great guy eh?  *He* knows what is and isn't good for me.  He was a fucking prick.



Oh nose, someone expressed a negative opinion about the alcohol-free pisswater you love so much, therefore they're a fucking prick? Who's the arrogant one now?

In any case, even if he is a fucking prick, that doesn't make him wrong. Alcohol-free beer *is* shit idea.



> It's not all about you is it.  Interested to hear what you think about that.
> 
> ETA: It's interesting to see quite a few people liking the quoted post - be keen to hear why others think there is 'no point' to non-alcoholic beers, which tends to suggest that those who choose not to drink should have their choices suppressed - but maybe I've misinterpreted that?  Happy to be proved wrong.



I just don't like the whole idea behind making something that, as a natural part of the process, creates an alcoholic beverage, and then deliberately sucking one of the best parts out of it. It's worse than pineapple on pizza. At least you can pick the pineapple off of a pizza.



teuchter said:


> It would be interesting to ask them - as a serious question - why are they not receptive?
> 
> Because surely anyone who's seriously interested in beer (rather than getting drunk) shouldn't be using the alcohol content as a way of automatically discounting options.



"Rather than". No. I reject this framing entirely. As far as I am concerned, becoming inebriated is part of the whole beer drinking experience. I don't see why I have to choose between getting drunk and tasting something nice. That's a false dichotomy and thus I reject it.



> There's certainly a lot of pretty dull alcohol-free beer out there - but the same applies to 'real' beer. Why not give some encouragement to the brewers who are working hard to make decent low- or no- alcohol beer. The brewer who can make a tasty 0.5% or even 1.5% beer is quite possibly a more skillful brewer than the one who can make 7% concoction the impact of which largely relies on the alcohol hit.
> 
> (By the way, having moved in the past few years to seldom drinking anything more than about 4% if I can help it, much of the 5% or 6% stuff that I previously liked now just tastes a bit 'chemical' like I'm drinking meths or something)



Teuchter talks bollocks again. It takes skill to make a strong beer taste good. Otherwise undrinkable gut-rot shite like Tennant's Super and Special Brew would actually be worth it.


----------



## klang (May 19, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> when the concept changes by the decade, and looking back further even the ingredients and methods have regularly been radically different.


not so in Bavaria.


----------



## teuchter (May 19, 2019)

I expect NoXion flies into a rage at the mention of vegan sausage rolls too.


----------



## NoXion (May 19, 2019)

teuchter said:


> I expect NoXion flies into a rage at the mention of vegan sausage rolls too.



You have quite an amazing talent for talking absolute bollocks. Far from getting mad, I gave the Gregg's vegan sausage roll a positive review.

Do you enjoy being made to look like a fucking plank?


----------



## teuchter (May 19, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Far from getting mad, I gave the Gregg's vegan sausage roll a positive review.


Seems a bit inconsistent. Beer is not beer unless it's got alcohol in. And yet you're fine with a sausage roll with no meat in.


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## killer b (May 19, 2019)

I don't think you're obliged to drink non alcoholic beer just because it exists NoXion. What do you lose from them being available?


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## tommers (May 19, 2019)

I drink decaff coffee all the time. Don't like the anxiety and nervousness I get from "proper" coffee but i like the taste of coffee 

I drink alcohol free beer sometimes, if I'm driving. I just like the taste of beer and don't want to drink coke and shit.


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## teuchter (May 19, 2019)

killer b said:


> I don't think you're obliged to drink non alcoholic beer just because it exists NoXion. What do you lose from them being available?



As a general thing, some people seem to be uncomfortable about non-drinkers being amongst a group of drinkers. Perhaps especially in older generations.


----------



## killer b (May 19, 2019)

is that what it is NoXion ? when you're out at a craft ale bar having a _drinking experience_, are non-drinkers not welcome in your party? If they are welcome, why are you so keen on them having less choice of things to drink?


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## teuchter (May 19, 2019)

I'd put that as '_even_ less choice of things to drink', because generally at the moment, the best case scenario is a single non-alcoholic beer option.


----------



## alex_ (May 19, 2019)

teuchter said:


> As a general thing, some people seem to be uncomfortable about non-drinkers being amongst a group of drinkers. Perhaps especially in older generations.



Some people can be really weird about it, I think being reminded of their dependancies  makes them feel uncomfortable.

 ( comment based upon experience not a dig at people here )

Alex


----------



## discobastard (May 19, 2019)

alex_ said:


> Some people can be really weird about it, I think being reminded of their dependancies  makes them feel uncomfortable.
> 
> ( comment based upon experience not a dig at people here )
> 
> Alex



This seems to be quite commonly mentioned amongst ex-drinkers I know.  

Regular, fairly heavy drinking tends to make people angry, fearful and selfish.  Even socially at work, I've seen some very uncomfortable exchanges between those for whom drinking is their social lubricant (the primary and in some cases sole route to a 'good time') and those that choose to live differently for whatever reason.  

Even the guy in the bar that told me AF was a 'shit idea' - he may not have a drink problem himself but he's not able to see past how deeply alcohol is embedded in our culture as something that the 'right' kind of people do.


----------



## teuchter (May 19, 2019)

discobastard said:


> how deeply alcohol is embedded in our culture as something that the 'right' kind of people do.



Yes.


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## discobastard (May 19, 2019)

NoXion said:


> "Rather than". No. I reject this framing entirely. As far as I am concerned, becoming inebriated is part of the whole beer drinking experience. I don't see why I have to choose between getting drunk and tasting something nice. That's a false dichotomy and thus I reject it.



This makes no sense whatsoever.  If you read Teuchter's post properly it does not say you have to choose between the two and you can still very much be interested in beer rather than getting drunk.  Those two things are in no way whatsoever mutually exclusive.  Please see all the posts above from people interested in discussing the different low and no alcohol beers.  Some of them taste like shit and some of them don't.  I am interested in beer and I think Nanny State tastes flat and bland.  But I would still like to drink a hop heavy beverage that has some bite to it, even though for reasons of my own I am choosing not to drink anything above 0.5%.  And there are some out there that I am interested in and enjoy.

So you're rejecting something that isn't a false dichotomy - though you may have in haste read it that way because it fits your clearly informed view of non-alcoholic beer and why people drink it.

The only bit that does make sense is '_becoming inebriated is part of the whole beer drinking experience_' - in that I can believe you think that, and if getting drunk is part of _your_ desired experience then good for you.  You're entitled to that.  And many people get drunk and don't have a problem with it.  Though it does creep up on you (that is a general comment and not directed at anybody).

I however _don't _think that getting inebriated is part of the whole beer drinking experience (having had experience of both sides).  And I am entitled to that also surely.


----------



## discobastard (May 19, 2019)

Has anybody tried Punk AF yet?  Keen to know if it is any better than Nanny State.  Not seen it in any shops so far.


----------



## T & P (May 19, 2019)

Even if one hates the taste of it, the emergence of decent quality 0.0 beer is good news for everyone. It would certainly cause a reduction, however small, in drink driving cases. Many drink drivers do it consciously and don’t give a fuck of course, but there are plenty of others who go to the pub with friends or work colleagues intending to have the one pint but ending up having more. A good quality non alc beer would become a real substitute for beer for those people who don’t like drinking traditional soft drinks in pubs.


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## editor (May 19, 2019)

T & P said:


> Even if one hates the taste of it, the emergence of decent quality 0.0 beer is good news for everyone. It would certainly cause a reduction, however small, in drink driving cases. Many drink drivers do it consciously and don’t give a fuck of course, but there are plenty of others who go to the pub with friends or work colleagues intending to have the one pint but ending up having more. A good quality non alc beer would become a real substitute for beer for those people who don’t like drinking traditional soft drinks in pubs.


I'm all for that. Having something that looks like a pint can take some of the peer pressure away. 

Thought:  I'm not sure if I should move all these posts to a separate thread seeing as there's some good points being buried in a thread abut shitty Brewdog.

People: 'Like' this post if you agree, otherwise I'll leave it.


----------



## Rosemary Jest (May 19, 2019)

editor said:


> I'm all for that. Having something that looks like a pint can take some of the peer pressure away.
> 
> Thought:  I'm not sure if I should move all these posts to a separate thread seeing as there's some good points being buried in a thread abut shitty Brewdog.
> 
> People: 'Like' this post if you agree, otherwise I'll leave it.



That would be a nice alternative thread. I've been introduced to some decent non alcoholic beers and some terrible over the last few months. A dedicated thread would be informative to say the least.


----------



## discobastard (May 19, 2019)

Rosemary Jest said:


> That would be a nice alternative thread. I've been introduced to some decent non alcoholic beers and some terrible over the last few months. A dedicated thread would be informative to say the least.



It's here - I've requested that the thread title be changed!

Least awful alcohol free beer


----------



## discobastard (May 19, 2019)

Rosemary Jest said:


> That would be a nice alternative thread. I've been introduced to some decent non alcoholic beers and some terrible over the last few months. A dedicated thread would be informative to say the least.



Please add your reviews btw.  Agree some are truly awful but there are some great ones appearing now which I think is gonna gain momentum in the next 2-3 years.


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## klang (May 19, 2019)

tommers said:


> I drink decaff coffee all the time. Don't like the anxiety and nervousness I get from "proper" coffee but i like the taste of coffee
> 
> I drink alcohol free beer sometimes, if I'm driving. I just like the taste of beer and don't want to drink coke and shit.


you don't drink shit, you eat it.


----------



## discobastard (May 19, 2019)

T & P said:


> Even if one hates the taste of it, the emergence of decent quality 0.0 beer is good news for everyone. It would certainly cause a reduction, however small, in drink driving cases. Many drink drivers do it consciously and don’t give a fuck of course, but there are plenty of others who go to the pub with friends or work colleagues intending to have the one pint but ending up having more. A good quality non alc beer would become a real substitute for beer for those people who don’t like drinking traditional soft drinks in pubs.



All I'd add to this is is to say 'beers' rather than beer singular (though I'm sure you meant that).  Different people like different styles of beer and let's face it, we are probably over-faced with choice in terms of stronger beers.  Rather than having to drink diet Coke and J2O I wouldn't want to have to drink Becks Blue all night either.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 19, 2019)

Not just a brew dog thing, but I'm seeing more and more almost decent beer in shops I'd expect to just see shit larger and some uninspired bitters.

Tried the 5am Saint the other day. Its rather nice, especially considering I bought it from a SPA.


----------



## teuchter (May 19, 2019)

T & P said:


> A good quality non alc beer would become a real substitute for beer for those people who don’t like drinking traditional soft drinks in pubs.



Does *anyone* like drinking traditional soft drinks in pubs?

I think maybe most people don't realise it until they have a period of not drinking alcohol - but there's pretty much nothing on offer in most pubs that's actually enjoyable to drink more than one or two glasses of. It can be a fairly miserable experience being a non drinker in a group of drinkers, because nothing in pubs is designed to be enjoyable to have 4 or 5 glasses of, except booze. AF beer really changes this completely - at least for people who like beer.

For now I'm grateful to find even becks blue... Because even if i don't actively 'like' it, having a few glasses of it at least isn't a negative experience.


----------



## RubyToogood (May 19, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Does *anyone* like drinking traditional soft drinks in pubs?
> 
> I think maybe most people don't realise it until they have a period of not drinking alcohol - but there's pretty much nothing on offer in most pubs that's actually enjoyable to drink more than one or two glasses of. It can be a fairly miserable experience being a non drinker in a group of drinkers, because nothing in pubs is designed to be enjoyable to have 4 or 5 glasses of, except booze. AF beer really changes this completely - at least for people who like beer.
> 
> For now I'm grateful to find even becks blue... Because even if i don't actively 'like' it, having a few glasses of it at least isn't a negative experience.


I think if you take the alcohol out of the equation, one or two glasses of *anything* is enough. You're hydrated. You've had your daily allowance of sugar now probably. What's the point of drinking more?


----------



## teuchter (May 19, 2019)

RubyToogood said:


> I think if you take the alcohol out of the equation, one or two glasses of *anything* is enough. You're hydrated. You've had your daily allowance of sugar now probably. What's the point of drinking more?


Because you're with a bunch of people who are drinking alcohol, and they are getting another drink, and you're in a whole social scenario based around people buying rounds and having a glass in their hands.


----------



## discobastard (May 19, 2019)

.


----------



## discobastard (May 19, 2019)

RubyToogood said:


> I think if you take the alcohol out of the equation, one or two glasses of *anything* is enough. You're hydrated. You've had your daily allowance of sugar now probably. What's the point of drinking more?



Some of those that choose to drink AF rather than alcohol are different from others who may just not be bothered about alcohol. They have a different relationship with ‘having a drink’ whatever that is. 

So for some it’s not about being hydrated or keeping up with others who do drink.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 20, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Because you're with a bunch of people who are drinking alcohol, and they are getting another drink, and you're in a whole social scenario based around people buying rounds and having a glass in their hands.


Long term this is just damage limitation though. If you are stuck in a situation where you don't want to get pissed but everyone else does and they are drinking loads of beer then it may be useful to be able to do the same and not get pissed, but it's not something you would choose to do otherwise. I get quite annoyed if I'm not drinking when I'm out on a social occasion where the activity is getting drunk on beer - at least if there's a meal involved you can make the choice to get drunk or not at the same time and still have mostly the same experience.


----------



## killer b (May 20, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Long term this is just damage limitation though. If you are stuck in a situation where you don't want to get pissed but everyone else does and they are drinking loads of beer then it may be useful to be able to do the same and not get pissed, but it's not something you would choose to do otherwise. I get quite annoyed if I'm not drinking when I'm out on a social occasion where the activity is getting drunk on beer - at least if there's a meal involved you can make the choice to get drunk or not at the same time and still have mostly the same experience.


Yeah, eventually I dropped out altogether from beer-only social events. These days I meet people for dinner, or to go to gigs or dancing or whatever, but I don't go to the drinking sessions.


----------



## T & P (May 20, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Long term this is just damage limitation though. If you are stuck in a situation where you don't want to get pissed but everyone else does and they are drinking loads of beer then it may be useful to be able to do the same and not get pissed, but it's not something you would choose to do otherwise. I get quite annoyed if I'm not drinking when I'm out on a social occasion where the activity is getting drunk on beer - at least if there's a meal involved you can make the choice to get drunk or not at the same time and still have mostly the same experience.


But there are also other situations where the objective is not get drunk, but frankly drinking beer is the only thing that appeals. Because let's face it, if you like beer and like going to the pub, who the fuck would want to drink anything else? I certainly don't anyway .

A pint of beer with colleagues or friends after work is one of the finer pleaures in life, and no other drink comes close- especially soft drinks. So if there was a decent 0.0 option, one could have a number of rounds and still be perfectly legal behind the wheel. Or you could even have one pint of normal or low strength beer followed by a pint of non-alc, and still be well under the limit.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 20, 2019)

T & P said:


> But there are also other situations where the objective is not get drunk, but frankly drinking beer is the only thing that appeals. Because let's face it, if you like beer and like going to the pub, who the fuck would want to drink anything else? I certainly don't anyway .
> 
> A pint of beer with colleagues or friends after work is one of the finer pleaures in life, and no other drink comes close- especially soft drinks. So if there was a decent 0.0 option, one could have a number of rounds and still be perfectly legal behind the wheel. Or you could even have one pint of normal or low strength beer followed by a pint of non-alc, and still be well under the limit.


A pint after work, I would welcome the option of no/low alcohol beer. Maybe two. After that I'd be steering things towards going for food or just leaving.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 20, 2019)

In Spain found pretty much everywhere I went there was non-alcoholic beer, and decent stuff too - much better than this country


----------



## FridgeMagnet (May 20, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> In Spain found pretty much everywhere I went there was non-alcoholic beer, and decent stuff too - much better than this country


Most places in Europe that I've been to seem to work on the basis that if you order beer it's not because you want to get drunk - maybe you want a mild buzz or maybe you just want a slightly bitter drink, but if you wanted to get drunk you'd order wine or spirits. Under that assumption it makes much more sense to have alcohol free beer around.


----------



## teuchter (May 20, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Long term this is just damage limitation though. If you are stuck in a situation where you don't want to get pissed but everyone else does and they are drinking loads of beer then it may be useful to be able to do the same and not get pissed, but it's not something you would choose to do otherwise. I get quite annoyed if I'm not drinking when I'm out on a social occasion where the activity is getting drunk on beer - at least if there's a meal involved you can make the choice to get drunk or not at the same time and still have mostly the same experience.



Plenty of people will go for maybe 3 or 4 beers, and are not sufficiently incapacitated that it's no longer enjoyable to be with them as a sober person. I agree that if you are not drinking, going for a meal tends to become more appealing, but I can still normally enjoy an evening with semi-drunk people when I'm sober. They aren't necessarily there just to get drunk, they are there to be sociable and that's something you can still be part of regardless of your inebriation. Depends on the people of course; if they are the type who make a big song and dance about someone *not* drinking, then it's different.

One of the good things about getting older is that I increasingly find that people couldn't care less whether I'm drinking (whereas in the past it would always be commented on, and you'd find people bringing you back an alcoholic drink when you'd asked for non-alcoholic, and such nonsense).


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (May 20, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Most places in Europe that I've been to seem to work on the basis that if you order beer it's not because you want to get drunk - maybe you want a mild buzz or maybe you just want a slightly bitter drink, but if you wanted to get drunk you'd order wine or spirits. Under that assumption it makes much more sense to have alcohol free beer around.



Those places probably have shit beer.


----------



## The Pale King (May 21, 2019)

Most bars have a shit selection of non-alcoholic beers afaics. Poor show when I am choosing between a variety of IPAs and Stouts and for my teetotal pals it's Becks Blue or nothing - I feel like a right heel.


----------



## teuchter (May 26, 2019)

I tried some of that Punk AF yesterday. Didn't seem all that different to Nanny State to me.


----------



## killer b (May 26, 2019)

teuchter said:


> I tried some of that Punk AF yesterday. Didn't seem all that different to Nanny State to me.


I had some on Friday and thought it was much nicer - not as harshly hoppy.


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 28, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> Most places in Europe that I've been to seem to work on the basis that if you order beer it's not because you want to get drunk - maybe you want a mild buzz or maybe you just want a slightly bitter drink, but if you wanted to get drunk you'd order wine or spirits. Under that assumption it makes much more sense to have alcohol free beer around.



Beer is a shit way to get drunk. Any more than a couple is murder on the guts.


----------



## teuchter (May 28, 2019)

teuchter said:


> I tried some of that Punk AF yesterday. Didn't seem all that different to Nanny State to me.


After having this, I had some 'real' beers. 

The real beers were a bit nicer than the AF ones. 

Three days later I still feel dreadful as a result though. 

This is why AF beer is a Good Thing.


----------



## editor (May 28, 2019)

I couldn't care if their beer is the best in the world: there's no way am I giving these opportunistic cunts my money or patronising their soul-sucking identikit bars.


----------



## campanula (May 28, 2019)

I only have 2 criteria (as a non-drinker)...a seat and a pot of tea. If neither are forthcoming, time to go. My local  has several large sofas and offers a range of hot drinks including Yorkshire Gold tea. I can even use my puffer inside.


----------



## billy_bob (May 30, 2019)

They're pushing the equity for punks crap again.

These people really are utter pricks.


----------



## alex_ (May 30, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> They're pushing the equity for punks crap again.
> 
> These people really are utter pricks.



Calling it “free money for capitalists” doesn’t have the same ring to it.


----------



## A380 (May 30, 2019)

I wonder if the AF beer preference depends on your sweet tooth?

 Case study: my mother has no taste for sweet things, no chocolate, puddings anything, she raves about the current crop of AF beers now, never a big drinker and always the driver this is about all she drinks when out now.

I have a child-like sweet tooth, despite being in my 50s. I can’t abide any AF free beer. If not drinking I’d much rather Diet Coke/ Pepsi or orange and lemonade, which I can drink all night.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 30, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> It does feel pretty absurd to talk about what is a "proper beer" generally, outside of jokes, when the concept changes by the decade, and looking back further even the ingredients and methods have regularly been radically different.
> 
> I may not like Brewdog's "punk" marketing at all but they do at least run a successful chain that provides just plain weird shit for sale. There are some good real ale pubs not too far from me in West London but none of them have the deliberately experimental range of the Brewdog.



I was surprised - and not particularly gratified - to see Brewdog beers in a bottle shop in Budapest last year. What made me chuckle was an "alcohol free" beer section that included all stocked beers from 0%-2% alcohol. A bit misleading in a country with 0% drink-driving limit!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 30, 2019)

littleseb said:


> not so in Bavaria.



Salutes the Bavarians.


----------



## 8ball (May 30, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> I was surprised - and not particularly gratified - to see Brewdog beers in a bottle shop in Budapest last year. What made me chuckle was an "alcohol free" beer section that included all stocked beers from 0%-2% alcohol. A bit misleading in a country with 0% drink-driving limit!



Yeah, some of definitions of alcohol-free have been getting a little lax.
Can't say I'd want people prosecuted for having a sandwich, though.


----------



## teuchter (May 31, 2019)

A380 said:


> I wonder if the AF beer preference depends on your sweet tooth?
> 
> Case study: my mother has no taste for sweet things, no chocolate, puddings anything, she raves about the current crop of AF beers now, never a big drinker and always the driver this is about all she drinks when out now.
> 
> I have a child-like sweet tooth, despite being in my 50s. I can’t abide any AF free beer. If not drinking I’d much rather Diet Coke/ Pepsi or orange and lemonade, which I can drink all night.


Yet you are ok with 'real' beer? Or do you prefer alcopops and suchlike?


----------



## A380 (May 31, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Yet you are ok with 'real' beer? Or do you prefer alcopops and suchlike?


No, real beer for me.


----------



## teuchter (May 31, 2019)

A380 said:


> No, real beer for me.


Then it must be your alcohol tooth rather than sweet tooth talking.


----------



## discobastard (May 31, 2019)

8ball said:


> Yeah, some of definitions of alcohol-free have been getting a little lax.
> Can't say I'd want people prosecuted for having a sandwich, though.



The legal definitions:
What Is Meant By Alcohol-Free? : The Alcohol-Free Shop

It does make me laugh (or angry depending on your POV) when you go into a bar and ask if they have any AF beers and they look sheepish and say 'well we have this, it's only 2.9%'.  That's happened on a number of occasions.

Went for a pizza tonight in Shoreditch, to a place where they (almost laudably) had Nanny State on the menu. 

'Nanny State please'

'Oh, we've run out I'm afraid.  We have cordial?'


----------



## Dogsauce (May 31, 2019)

Beer in bars just seems a rip-off if you’re not getting pissed. I got by for a long time on pints of orange juice and soda, which isn’t too sweet and only cost me a quid at the place I’d go to most often.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jun 18, 2019)

Man sues Brewdog for gender discrimination after being refused 'Pink Beer for Girls'


----------



## 8ball (Jun 18, 2019)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Man sues Brewdog for gender discrimination after being refused 'Pink Beer for Girls'



Being fair, I think the people at the place he was at didn't get where they were going with the product.

However, if it was made clear that the reduced price was their way of creating awareness of the gender pay gap, I think the claimant was being a bit of a tit.


----------



## editor (Jul 11, 2019)

Fairly scathing for the FT: 



> Remember BrewDog, the Scottish beer-for-people-who-think-they-like-beer company that's managed to raise money from over 110,000 "equity punks" (AKA ordinary and really quite un-punky retail investors) around the world?
> 
> Well, it's raising again. Or trying to, anyway. In the company's latest "Equity for Punks" crowdfunding raise -- its sixth such round -- it's aiming to raise another £7m, with a "stretch goal" of £50m. The £7m would bring the total amount of money BrewDog has raised via crowdfunding to an impressive £74m. (Although it should be noted that it also raised £213m from a somewhat less punky US private equity fund back in 2017.)
> 
> ...


----------



## kenny g (Jul 11, 2019)

My aldi ghost dance Ghost Dance Ale mixed with shepherds neame bishops finger costs £2.49 and provides 830ml of heavily hopped beer experience at 5.4% abv. Sometimes mix the finger with aldi coffee stout at 99p. Makes a great black IPA style drink. Take that BrewDog


----------



## billy_bob (Jul 12, 2019)

editor said:


> Fairly scathing for the FT:



They had me at 'beer-for-people-who-think-they-like-beer company'


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 12, 2019)

The FT does not sound surprised. Now, considering they raised £100m from a US private equity firm not even 2 years ago, why aren't they raising more money from current investors? 

There was a 2018 article that reckoned their costs had spiralled, so their burn rate must be high. 

I wonder how much the negative publicity around the tribunal for disability discrimination has affected this equity round. 

Obviously I'm very sad about their equity raise problems. Very very sad.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 14, 2019)

It's not like the stuff they sell is cheap and it's everywhere. Even the little one stop on my estate. I mean Punk isn't bad beer. But they have done some dam good marketing. I even saw it in France.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 3, 2019)

A 50% vegan burger. Genius.


----------



## Rosemary Jest (Oct 3, 2019)

Look at the head on that 'pint'


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 4, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> A 50% vegan burger. Genius.



What's the point of that? It's not 50% vegan, it's a burger with less meat in it. And those green buns look rank. 

Fucking brewdog.


----------



## Rosemary Jest (Oct 4, 2019)

Has anyone ever been in a Brewdog bar? I mean, I've been in plenty of hipster places, but these just look so _shit_. 

Passed plenty in various cities, but never had the urge, or even a slight pang, to wander in, even out of morbid curiosity.

I'm sure they used to sell Punk IPA in wetherspoons, so why wouldn't you go there and pay half the price, instead of paying twice the price to drink the same pint in somewhere that looks like and has all the atmosphere of a wetherspoon's kitchen?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> A 50% vegan burger. Genius.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> The FT does not sound surprised. Now, considering they raised £100m from a US private equity firm not even 2 years ago, why aren't they raising more money from current investors?


Many possible reasons but probably because PE firms take board seats as well as equity in the investment and the owners will want to control the amount of shares and influence that individual investors accrue. The company and its capital raising strategy has been tremendously successful. In less than 10 years they've gone from one bar in Scotland to over 70 all over the world, have 5 breweries in different countries, and a hotel.



			
				Rasemary Jest said:
			
		

> Has anyone ever been in a Brewdog bar?


I've been to the one in Paddington basin. It's ok if you like that sort of thing. Beer's pretty good but expensive, food's ok but expensive, but this is London. What did annoy me was having to pay extra for chips with my 10 quid burger. Chips should always be included with burgers.

Oh, and Brewdog didn't let my dog in.


----------



## alex_ (Oct 4, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> What's the point of that?
> 
> Fucking brew dog.



marketing engagement, clicks and outrage generating free adverts


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

alex_ said:


> marketing engagement, clicks and outrage generating free adverts


Spot on. These guys know exactly what they're doing and they're doing it very well. Very few businesses have 35 page threads on U75 dedicated to them.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 4, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Brewdog didn't let my dog in.



OK, 35 pages of disengenuous corporate twattery, but I think that's /THREAD right there.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 4, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Spot on. These guys know exactly what they're doing and they're doing it very well. Very few businesses have 35 page threads on U75 dedicated to them.



Hmm - maybe, but I'm not sure. They're the advertiser, not the ad host: they don't get revenue just from clicks. And if this thread really is an example of their strategy at work, I'm not convinced it's one that's effectively netting them new customers. Their appeal rests on the type of people (broadly speaking) who frequent this site having a not very well thought-through 'that looks like the kind of beer people like me would like - I'll give it a try' reaction, and this thread will surely have stopped more of those knees jerking that it's started.

(E2a: I say 'maybe' rather than 'no' though because clearly _something_'s netting them new customers, so something's working... I'm just not sure it's working for the demographic that's slagging them off in discussions like this one.)


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> Hmm - maybe, but I'm not sure. They're the advertiser, not the ad host: they don't get revenue just from clicks. And if this thread really is an example of their strategy at work, I'm not convinced it's one that's effectively netting them new customers. Their appeal rests the type of people (broadly speaking) who frequent this site having a not very well thought-through 'that looks like the kind of beer people like me would like - I'll give it a try' reaction, and this thread will surely have stopped more of those knees jerking that it's started.


One of their major strategies has been based on inflamatory marketing. It's free advertising and for every person who thinks "twats" there'll be one or two who'd never heard of them who look at their websites, perhaps be attracted to some other aspect of the offering, and give them a go. There are ad agencies that specialise in this type of "provocative marketing". Granted, your average Urb is probably not likely to read this thread and rush down to a Brewdog, but then this isn't their target market anyway so they settle for just being talked about. Look at what they've achieved in the last 10 years. Possibly the most successful new bar group in Europe?


----------



## alex_ (Oct 4, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> Hmm - maybe, but I'm not sure. They're the advertiser, not the ad host: they don't get revenue just from clicks. And if this thread really is an example of their strategy at work, I'm not convinced it's one that's effectively netting them new customers. Their appeal rests the type of people (broadly speaking) who frequent this site having a not very well thought-through 'that looks like the kind of beer people like me would like - I'll give it a try' reaction, and this thread will surely have stopped more of those knees jerking that it's started.
> 
> (E2a: I say 'maybe' rather than 'no' though because clearly _something_'s netting them new customers, so something's working... I'm just not sure it's working for the demographic that's slagging them off in discussions like this one.)



Do a google news search for brewdog hybrid burger and tell me that the above tweet doesn’t have an 1000% ROI.

People who buy beer in Tesco get brand awareness and that they are “edgey”.

believe it or not a load of middle aged cynics on a message board isn’t the target audience.

Plus tweet views, likes and forward cause twitter to promote it more.

Every time someone here posts a brewdog tweet, they are schilling for them.

Alex


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 4, 2019)

Yeah, OK. Depressingly more evidence that people are twats.

I console myself with the knowledge that their actual demographic is people who think they're like me but aren't smart or cool enough to realise they're being shilled.


----------



## alex_ (Oct 4, 2019)

billy_bob said:


> Yeah, OK. Depressingly more evidence that people are twats.
> 
> I console myself with the knowledge that their actual demographic is people who think they're like me but aren't smart or cool enough to realise they're being shilled.



yes, the bloke who thinks he is the coolest guy in Runcorn drinks brewdog.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 4, 2019)

What's the problem with a 50% vegan burger? I can't see it is anything other than a positive move towards cutting down on meat consumption.


----------



## killer b (Oct 4, 2019)

It's clearly aimed at provoking the kind of screeching outrage we've seen, but I have to say I can't actually see anything wrong with the concept.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

teuchter said:


> What's the problem with a 50% vegan burger? I can't see it is anything other than a positive move towards cutting down on meat consumption.


Introducing vegans back to meat. It's like tapering off drugs but the other way round.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 4, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> One of their major strategies has been based on inflamatory marketing. It's free advertising and for every person who thinks "twats" there'll be one or two who'd never heard of them who look at their websites, perhaps be attracted to some other aspect of the offering, and give them a go. There are ad agencies that specialise in this type of "provocative marketing". Granted, your average Urb is probably not likely to read this thread and rush down to a Brewdog, but then this isn't their target market anyway so they settle for just being talked about. Look at what they've achieved in the last 10 years. Possibly the most successful new bar group in Europe?



TBH I think the reason that stuff like this thread is helpful to a company like Brewdog is that it treats all their marketing stuff incredibly seriously. Way more seriously than practically anyone drinking in their bars or buying a few cans of their beer from Tesco. All the rage against everything they do treats it all as something real, something that matters. That's the sort of thing that's incredibly hard for a marketing department to buy.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

killer b said:


> It's clearly aimed at provoking the kind of screeching outrage we've seen, but I have to say I can't actually see anything wrong with the concept.


There's nothing at all wrong with the concept if you consider it as a business designed to appeal to 20-40 somethings with decent disposable incomes, rather than a social service. Some of the beers are pretty good and they're nice comfortable big spaces with passable food in popular locations. As Alex says, the very things that us Urban farts rail against are what have made them successful and they couldn't give a toss that a handful of middle aged, middle class, ex hippies, aren't going to be queuing at the door!


----------



## killer b (Oct 4, 2019)

Most of the brewdog afficionados I know are also middle aged, middle class ex hippies tbf. It's a key part of their market. Middle aged middle class ex hippies often have very decent disposable incomes, after all.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

killer b said:


> Most of the brewdog afficionados I know are also middle aged, middle class ex hippies tbf. It's a key part of their market. Middle aged middle class ex hippies often have very decent disposable incomes, after all.


Fair play but we're far from their target market. I always seem to be the oldest bloke in the Paddington Brewdog but I suppose that might have something to do with me being one of the oldest blokes in Paddington.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> TBH I think the reason that stuff like this thread is helpful to a company like Brewdog is that it treats all their marketing stuff incredibly seriously. Way more seriously than practically anyone drinking in their bars or buying a few cans of their beer from Tesco. All the rage against everything they do treats it all as something real, something that matters. That's the sort of thing that's incredibly hard for a marketing department to buy.


Sure. Another point is that even on threads like this it's not all bad. Skim through the thread and there are a fair number of actually quite complimentary posts. All in all, Urban75 is doing a grand job for them.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2019)

Shit company run by corporate cunts selling overpriced beer in vile soulless bars.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 4, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Fair play but we're far from their target market. I always seem to be the oldest bloke in the Paddington Brewdog but I suppose that might have something to do with me being one of the oldest blokes in Paddington.


or indeed any other mainline station


----------



## killer b (Oct 4, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Fair play but we're far from their target market. I always seem to be the oldest bloke in the Paddington Brewdog but I suppose that might have something to do with me being one of the oldest blokes in Paddington.


'middle aged' you said.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 4, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Introducing vegans back to meat. It's like tapering off drugs but the other way round.



As the type of person who used to see the term 'gateway drug' as useful guidance about what route to take, this concerns me.


----------



## klang (Oct 4, 2019)

Rosemary Jest said:


> Look at the head on that 'pint'


tbf that's the most attractive feature of that pic.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 4, 2019)

Love the fact that in scenarios like this, nobody ever wants to accept that  perfectly logical reason for introducing such a thing (e.g. to help cut down on meat intake/production) might actually be, erm, _true_.  But that can't be right, it's definitely a conspiracy by people who are "bad".

I'm trying to cut down my meat intake.  I'd try this, and knowing myself, I can see how it might help me down the road to eating pure vegan burgers instead.

All the rage online about 'it's got to be 100% vegan or nothing grrr!!!' (see the hilarious comments in the Daily Record article) entirely misses the point about managed behaviour change being a gradual process for much of the population.  It's all just noise, and it isn't helpful.

Oh, and I like Brewdog bars.  They always have the AF beers in stock and they are only £2 a can (in the last couple I went to at least, Edinburgh and Leeds).  So pretty good value for money I'd say.  Most other bars charge at least £4.50 a can IME.  So good for them for providing an affordable option.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 4, 2019)

teuchter said:


> What's the problem with a 50% vegan burger? I can't see it is anything other than a positive move towards cutting down on meat consumption.


Birdseye and every other cheap frozen burger manufacturer clearly ahead of their time


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Oh, and I like Brewdog bars.  They always have the AF beers in stock and they are only £2 a can (in the last couple I went to at least, Edinburgh and Leeds).


Try the chorizo hotdogs, they're ace. I've got a craving for one now. 

I quite like the bars too. Original and different.


----------



## alex_ (Oct 4, 2019)

editor said:


> Shit company run by corporate cunts selling overpriced beer in vile soulless bars.



Every time they are talked about they win


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 4, 2019)

I've never drunk a Brewdog beer in my life but all of you lot ranting on about how they're bad/good they are is making me think that the next time I am in our local Tesco, I will have to pick one up just to give it a try and see for myself how good/bad it might be. Even if I hate it they haven't lost anything since they don't have to refund me.


----------



## salem (Oct 4, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Love the fact that in scenarios like this, nobody ever wants to accept that  perfectly logical reason for introducing such a thing (e.g. to help cut down on meat intake/production) might actually be, erm, _true_.  But that can't be right, it's definitely a conspiracy by people who are "bad".
> 
> I'm trying to cut down my meat intake.  I'd try this, and knowing myself, I can see how it might help me down the road to eating pure vegan burgers instead.
> 
> ...


I  agree, I think in this case it's just badwagon jumping. And as a meat eater who is living with a vegetarian I think getting people to cut down is going to produce better results in the short-mid term then expecting people to go fully veg. I don't think this particular burger helps much in that respect as it seems to be a regular meat burger with a vegan patty added to it.

But I had some mince the other day that was half veg and half meat and it worked great - as well as any other mince - in my spag bol.

Still back to the main topic - BrewDog - shite beer, shite pubs, run by wankers.


----------



## salem (Oct 4, 2019)

MickiQ said:


> I've never drunk a Brewdog beer in my life but all of you lot ranting on about how they're bad/good they are is making me think that the next time I am in our local Tesco, I will have to pick one up just to give it a try and see for myself how good/bad it might be. Even if I hate it they haven't lost anything since they don't have to refund me.


Go for it, I don't think the hate here is that much with them producing bad beer though (it's more overpriced 'meh' than anything). More their culture as a company.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2019)

alex_ said:


> Every time they are talked about they win


They really don't, you know.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 4, 2019)

salem said:


> I  agree, I think in this case it's just badwagon jumping. And as a meat eater who is living with a vegetarian I think getting people to cut down is going to produce better results in the short-mid term then expecting people to go fully veg. I don't think this particular burger helps much in that respect as it seems to be a regular meat burger with a vegan patty added to it.



It's raising awareness and getting people to think about it.  Given that they already offer two other vegan burgers on their menu, it is targeting those that are wavering or a vegan-curious (like myself).  

It's actually very clever.  And all the hysterical types tweeting about how it's not vegan and you've got to be vegan or not vegan are missing the point by quite some distance.  a) It _isn't _vegan and it _isn't meant _to be, and b) it isn't aimed at vegans, it is aimed at the vegan curious.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 4, 2019)

I don't object to eating less meat, I welcome that. 

What I object to is them calling a burger containing meat '50% vegan'. It isn't. It's not vegan at all. 

Putting it in a green bun is just pure shite and a marketing gimmick.


----------



## editor (Oct 4, 2019)

salem said:


> Still back to the main topic - BrewDog - shite beer, shite pubs, run by wankers.


Yep. And that 'equity punk' stuff is fucking embarrassing. What kind of twat invests into that kind of laughable faux edgy bullshit.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 4, 2019)

I'm not convinced that talking about this company on Urban, especially in the largely negative way it happens, really does anything significant to raise their profile. I reckon all that marketing money they spend would be the main driver. Maybe they're getting boosted by "influencers" on social media with millions of followers. How many people are active on Urban these days? Especially since web forums are old hat now.

I'm quite sure that they spend a lot on marketing, because they sure as fuck don't spend a lot making their actual beer. Mediocre at best.

Also, if all publicity is good publicity, then why do companies exert so much effort in avoiding negative feedback?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I don't object to eating less meat, I welcome that.
> 
> What I object to is them calling a burger containing meat '50% vegan'. It isn't. It's not vegan at all.




They're not calling it a _vegan burger_ though. They're calling it a hybrid burger, and it IS 50% vegan. You'd have to be a bit of a moron not to understand that the other 50% is meat.


----------



## alex_ (Oct 4, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> They're not calling it a _vegan burger_ though. They're calling it a hybrid burger, and it IS 50% vegan. You'd have to be a bit of a moron not to understand that the other 50% is meat.



steak is 75% water - steak is 75% vegan ?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

alex_ said:


> steak is 75% water - steak is 75% vegan ?




YOU are 60% water - You are 40% human?


----------



## alex_ (Oct 4, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> YOU are 60% water - You are 40% human?



fuck - I’m more than half vegan.

I’ll have some biltong for tea, that’ll help even things up


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2019)

You can't have an item that is 50% vegan, like you can't be a little bit pregnant. It's marketing based on the absurdity of the idea. Not that I give a lot of a shit tbh; there's a lot of marketing around.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You can't have an item that is 50% vegan ...


But you can have an item that is composed of 50% vegan ingredients, call it something inflamatory and, as you say, a marketing strategy to get people discussing it on message boards, in the pub, etc ...


----------



## teuchter (Oct 4, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> You can't have an item that is 50% vegan, like you can't be a little bit pregnant. It's marketing based on the absurdity of the idea. Not that I give a lot of a shit tbh; there's a lot of marketing around.


If I go into greggs and get one vegan and one meat sausage roll, and have them both for my lunch, then I can't say that half my lunch was vegan, but if I just have the vegan one for lunch, and the meat one for dinner, then I can say that I had a vegan lunch? Or does eating the meat one mean that I didn't have a vegan lunch, because I'm clearly not vegan?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

alex_ said:


> fuck - I’m more than half vegan.
> 
> I’ll have some biltong for tea, that’ll help even things up


Why not? A hot beef injection


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 4, 2019)

Have they actually described it as 50% vegan? It's not on the quoted tweet.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 4, 2019)

teuchter said:


> If I go into greggs and get one vegan and one meat sausage roll, and have them both for my lunch, then I can't say that half my lunch was vegan, but if I just have the vegan one for lunch, and the meat one for dinner, then I can say that I had a vegan lunch? Or does eating the meat one mean that I didn't have a vegan lunch, because I'm clearly not vegan?


You're normally good at this stuff but you've fucked this one up. Fridgemagnet clearly refers to an item (singular) yet here you buy two different items. Fucked it.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Have they actually described it as 50% vegan? It's not on the quoted tweet.


No.

As usual equationgirl is being a bit of a penis.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 4, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> You're normally good at this stuff but you've fucked this one up. Fridgemagnet clearly refers to an item (singular) yet here you buy two different items. Fucked it.


My lunch was the singular item. And if you're going to tell me that my lunch doesn't count as singular because it contains multiple components then I'm going to say the same about the burger.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 4, 2019)

teuchter said:


> My lunch was the singular item. And if you're going to tell me that my lunch doesn't count as singular because it contains multiple components then I'm going to say the same about the burger.


A burger is a burger, two sausage rolls are two sausage rolls. See how one is singular (can I have a burger please) and the other isn't (two sausage rolls please)

Anyway, even if you break the burger down to its components, the patty is half beef mince and half beyond meat mince. It's not two patties.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 4, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> No.
> 
> As usual equationgirl is being a bit of a penis.


Oh fuck off Spymaster.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Oct 4, 2019)

teuchter said:


> If I go into greggs and get one vegan and one meat sausage roll, and have them both for my lunch, then I can't say that half my lunch was vegan, but if I just have the vegan one for lunch, and the meat one for dinner, then I can say that I had a vegan lunch?


yes


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 4, 2019)

The Metro describes the burger as 50% vegan, by the way.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Oh fuck off Spymaster.


Penile sucktitude, encore te oree .....


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> The Metro describes the burger as 50% vegan, by the way.


Wow!

It's like everything else disapeared


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2019)

equationgirl is MAGIC!


----------



## teuchter (Oct 4, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> A burger is a burger, two sausage rolls are two sausage rolls.



Two sausage rolls is a decent lunch. A decent lunch is a decent lunch.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 4, 2019)

FridgeMagnet said:


> yes


So can I say that one of my meals that day was vegan?


----------



## discobastard (Oct 5, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I don't object to eating less meat, I welcome that.
> 
> What I object to is them calling a burger containing meat '50% vegan'. It isn't. It's not vegan at all.
> 
> Putting it in a green bun is just pure shite and a marketing gimmick.



_James Brown, retail director at BrewDog told Metro.co.uk: ‘Across our bars we’ve seen a growing demand for alternative proteins, and we already stock vegan friendly options – but some of our customers are still unsure about taking the leap into 100% non-animal based proteins. ‘Our HYBRID burger was developed to meet our sceptics in the middle between beef and Beyond Meat. Hopefully converting more people towards a flexitarian diet in the future.’_

In what way is there _anything_ to object to this as a goal, given that they already offer two other purely vegan burgers in any case?  Why is that a 'gimmick'?  Read what they said very carefully...



Why are people getting so upset about this?  Presumably because we 'hate' Brewdog and so we can't admit that they have done something potentially positive (see my earlier post about being vegan curious).

What harm is this causing - genuine question?


----------



## discobastard (Oct 5, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> The Metro describes the burger as 50% vegan, by the way.



So the Metro describe it that way but Brewdog don't?  So your problem is with the Metro then and not Brewdog.  It's very easy to get caught up in semantics like this but it is just noise.  Ignore all that shit about what 50% vegan means.  It is a total red herring and rather distracting from the fact that they have introduced something that might get some people eating less meat.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 5, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Why are people getting so upset about this?


It’s only a couple of agenda bell-ends, tbf.

If the thing was advertised as a _vegan burger_ they’d have a point, but it’s not, so they are pretending that it is!


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 5, 2019)

discobastard said:


> _James Brown, retail director at BrewDog told Metro.co.uk: ‘Across our bars we’ve seen a growing demand for alternative proteins, and we already stock vegan friendly options – but some of our customers are still unsure about taking the leap into 100% non-animal based proteins. ‘Our HYBRID burger was developed to meet our sceptics in the middle between beef and Beyond Meat. Hopefully converting more people towards a flexitarian diet in the future.’_
> 
> In what way is there _anything_ to object to this as a goal, given that they already offer two other purely vegan burgers in any case?  Why is that a 'gimmick'?  Read what they said very carefully...
> 
> ...





discobastard said:


> So the Metro describe it that way but Brewdog don't?  So your problem is with the Metro then and not Brewdog.  It's very easy to get caught up in semantics like this but it is just noise.  Ignore all that shit about what 50% vegan means.  It is a total red herring and rather distracting from the fact that they have introduced something that might get some people eating less meat.


Have a go at skyscraper101 for starting this, not me. They described it as 50% vegan first, not me.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 5, 2019)




----------



## Spymaster (Oct 5, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Have a go at skyscraper101 for starting this, not me. They described it as 50% vegan first, not me.


It was explained to you in baby language yet you persisted in posting via your rectum!


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 5, 2019)

I Think given Brewdog's track record of marketing and gimmicks, this is not a serious attempt to get anyone to eat less meet. It's a marketing gimmick, as shown by the green bun. Who puts matcha tea powder in a burger bun ffs?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 5, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> ... this is not a serious attempt to get anyone to eat less meet. It's a marketing gimmick ...


Duh! 

You’d almost think they’re a pub chain rather than the National Vegan Council.

As disco says though, it’s doing no harm. In fact, if it’s getting up the hooters of people like you and one or two others on this thread, it’s fucking fantastic!


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 5, 2019)

Fuck off Spymaster you're a nasty piece of work.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 5, 2019)

Here's what they say in their blog


> So for those who are or want to go vegan, every single BrewDog Bar rocks a menu where half the options are vegetarian and 25% vegan, as a key pillar of our food philosophy. Now for those who want to reduce their intake and their footprint on the environment, we have the Hybrid Burger.
> 
> Sandwiched between two green matcha tea buns, the 50/50 Hybrid burger is surrounded by 100% vegan ingredients. Melted vegan Gouda cheese, crispy onion straws and a potato rosti are there to help introduce more meat-eaters to the world of plant based dining, while further increasing the sustainability of the burger. This is about achievable, everyday changing, any time you need it. As we are in the grip of a climate emergency, the more people who eat less meat the better. That is why we have launched this fresh take on flexitarianism.



TAKING A STAND FOR THE ENVIRONMENT WITH THE BREWDOG HYBRID BURGER


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 5, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Here's what they say in their blog
> 
> 
> TAKING A STAND FOR THE ENVIRONMENT WITH THE BREWDOG HYBRID BURGER


They should’ve put a wink smilie at the end


----------



## discobastard (Oct 5, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I Think given Brewdog's track record of marketing and gimmicks, this is not a serious attempt to get anyone to eat less meet. It's a marketing gimmick, as shown by the green bun. Who puts matcha tea powder in a burger bun ffs?



Fucking hell thats a desperate post.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 5, 2019)

Anyway to digress I don't want potato in my burger. Next to it, ok, not fucking in it. Get that posh hash brown out.

I also don't want tea flavoured green buns either tbf


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 5, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Fucking hell thats a desperate post.


Don’t be daft, it’s a pub group. They should be saving the planet and converting people to veganism. Not selling food and booze!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 5, 2019)

Btw discobastard are you an equity punk?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 5, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Anyway to digress I don't want potato in my burger. Next to it, ok, not fucking in it. Get that posh hash brown out.
> 
> I also don't want tea flavoured green buns either tbf


You’ll be pleased to hear that they also sell other stuff.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 5, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> They should’ve put a wink smilie at the end


Nah, these things work better without.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 5, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> You’ll be pleased to hear that they also sell other stuff.


If I want dickhead beer and overpriced food I go to the tiny rebel bar when I'm in cardiff, it's still a bit shameful but the beer is nicer


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 5, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> If I want dickhead beer and overpriced food I go to the tiny rebel bar when I'm in cardiff ...


Come to London. We’ve got the best dickhead beer and overpriced food in the world.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 5, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Btw discobastard are you an equity punk?



No I am not and have no interest in being such a thing. 

Presume the suggestion here is that because I am defending something I must have a financial interest.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 5, 2019)

discobastard said:


> No I am not and have no interest in being such a thing.
> 
> Presume the suggestion here is that because I am defending something I must have a financial interest.


No just curious


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 5, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Fucking hell thats a desperate post.


Why? What offends you so much about it? Or are you just looking to have a go at me too?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 5, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> What's the point of that? It's not 50% vegan, it's a burger with less meat in it. And those green buns look rank.
> 
> Fucking brewdog.



Back in the day, the use of soy products and rusk to bulk out burgers used to be hidden. Now these wankshafts are making a PR virtue out of it!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 5, 2019)

discobastard said:


> _James Brown, retail director at BrewDog told Metro.co.uk: ‘Across our bars we’ve seen a growing demand for alternative proteins, and we already stock vegan friendly options – but some of our customers are still unsure about taking the leap into 100% non-animal based proteins. ‘Our HYBRID burger was developed to meet our sceptics in the middle between beef and Beyond Meat. Hopefully converting more people towards a flexitarian diet in the future.’_
> 
> In what way is there _anything_ to object to this as a goal, given that they already offer two other purely vegan burgers in any case?  Why is that a 'gimmick'?  Read what they said very carefully...
> 
> ...



It's the start of a slippery slope, you mark my words. They'll start off by nicking half the beef out of your burger, and before you know it, your hot dog is a carrot, and your steak is a large piece of industrially-grown fungus.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 5, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I Think given Brewdog's track record of marketing and gimmicks, this is not a serious attempt to get anyone to eat less meet. It's a marketing gimmick, as shown by the green bun. Who puts matcha tea powder in a burger bun ffs?



Well late for catching the St. Paddy's Day market, too!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 5, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Fucking hell thats a desperate post.



Seems quite sensible to me. A green bun would put me right off, especially a tea-flavoured green bun.
And why the fucking fuck is there rosti in the burger? I want chips with it, not wodge of fried potato gratin IN the bloody thing!


----------



## alex_ (Oct 5, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's the start of a slippery slope, you mark my words. They'll start off by nicking half the beef out of your burger, and before you know it, your hot dog is a carrot, and your steak is a large piece of industrially-grown fungus.



And your beer will be 95% water !


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 5, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> Seems quite sensible to me. A green bun would put me right off, especially a tea-flavoured green bun.
> And why the fucking fuck is there rosti in the burger? I want chips with it, not wodge of fried potato gratin IN the bloody thing!


Clearly a man with taste


----------



## Gaia (Oct 5, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Try the chorizo hotdogs, they're ace. I've got a craving for one now.
> 
> I quite like the bars too. Original and different.



Now I have too, but without the bun (that said I've not really been able to eat owt spicy since I've been ill either). My occasional treat (because they were very expensive) was peri-peri droewors from   Raging Bull Meats which had a shop on the Finchley Road for about 4 years (his business model was shite - he insisted on importing all his meat from South Africa, Namibia and Zimbabwe because he didn't believe British beef was 'authentic' enough). Did many kinds of biltong too (the ostrich was very tasty). 

I reckon if he'd not been so snobbish about the meat, he'd still be in business (there was a butcher's in GX which did biltong, made by a genuine South African but they used British meat).


----------



## discobastard (Oct 5, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Why? What offends you so much about it? Or are you just looking to have a go at me too?



I’m having a go, yes. At your argument. I don’t wish you personally any ill will as I’ve never met you and you may well be lovely company.  

But your words sound like a desperate attempt to claw back any credibility on the argument. 

‘Ok I can’t argue against the clear aims and potential benefits of offering a half vegan, half meat meal so I’m gonna hate on the green bun instead and say they’re pathetic because we hate Brewdog’.  

That doesn’t work for me as an argument. And please google matcha buns.  It is a thing. And a very old thing.  

It’s ok to admit that it might not be quite as much of an atrocity as you have previously made out.  Lots of businesses sell lots of things, and I’m sure you buy many of them. But to be quite so angry about this seems a bit odd given the context. 

At the same time I don’t deny you the right to interpret it in an extreme and narrow minded way. It doesn’t affect my life, and I wish you well.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 5, 2019)

discobastard said:


> a half vegan, half meat meal



Meat and two veg


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 6, 2019)

discobastard said:


> I’m having a go, yes. At your argument. I don’t wish you personally any ill will as I’ve never met you and you may well be lovely company.
> 
> But your words sound like a desperate attempt to claw back any credibility on the argument.
> 
> ...


I'm not angry. I've made it clear that I think this is yet another crap marketing gimmick by brewdog, riding on the coat tails of the rising popularity of veganism.

If they were really keen for people to enjoy a vegan burger with their beer, they would make one that was actually vegan and decent to eat.  Not all the beers are vegan either.

I'm not a fan of Brewdog, they got taken to employment tribunal for refusing to comply with the provisions of the equality act 2010 for one of their workers with disabilities. I think they're a terrible company.

Nor have I used words like atrocity to describe them. Seems to me it's you getting a bit hit under the collar because I've had the temerity to express an opinion that's aat odd with yours.

Why aren't you having a go at skyscraper101? They first described the burger as 50% vegan - as is the Independent now too.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Oct 6, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Why aren't you having a go at skyscraper101? They first described the burger as 50% vegan - as is the Independent now too.



TBH I was just quoting from somewhere else. I have no strong feelings on the matter. 

Except that Brewdog are cunts. Obvs.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 6, 2019)

skyscraper101 said:


> TBH I was just quoting from somewhere else. I have no strong feelings on the matter.
> 
> Except that Brewdog are cunts. Obvs.


Yeah, but I'm the one getting all the grief for it for some reason...


----------



## Combustible (Oct 6, 2019)

I don't care either way about Brewdog, but if you want to cut down on your environmental impact but still eat meat, a chicken burger would be a better option.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 6, 2019)

Combustible said:


> I don't care either way about Brewdog, but if you want to cut down on your environmental impact but still eat meat, a chicken burger would be a better option.


I’m not sure about that. Pretty much all chicken that you’re likely to find in a burger has been intensively farmed. So you have the environmental impact of that method of production plus the animal welfare issue which is pretty much as bad as it gets with intensively reared poultry.


----------



## Combustible (Oct 6, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I’m not sure about that. Pretty much all chicken that you’re likely to find in a burger has been intensively farmed. So you have the environmental impact of that method of production plus the animal welfare issue which is pretty much as bad as it gets with intensively reared poultry.



I meant in terms of carbon emissions, the production of beef produces about 4x the CO2 per g of chicken, so a half-beef burger has a carbon footprint twice that of a similarly sized full chicken one (ignoring the carbon footprint of the meat substitute). In terms of animal welfare, there is no reason why you would need to use factory or intensively farmed chicken to make a burger, I have no idea if Brewdog do or not.


----------



## Callie (Oct 6, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> If they were really keen for people to enjoy a vegan burger with their beer, they would make one that was actually vegan and decent to eat.  Not all the beers are vegan either.



Half their menu is veggie with another chunk of it also vegan. This isn't all that they offer. I think their menu actually offers quite a decent selection on that front. They also do something like an all you can eat wings day where you can have either chicken wings or cauliflower wings.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 6, 2019)

equationgirl said:
			
		

> If they were really keen for people to enjoy a vegan burger with their beer, they would make one that was actually vegan and decent to eat.


They do.


equationgirl said:


> I'm not a fan of Brewdog, they got taken to employment tribunal for refusing to comply with the provisions of the equality act 2010 for one of their workers with disabilities. I think they're a terrible company.


Not their finest hour but it's not as cut-and-dried as you spin it.

The employee worked on a packing line and got progressively blind due to Stargardt disease. The company offered him another job, as their health and safety officer felt it was becoming dangerous for him and his colleagues for an increasingly blind person to be on that particular operation. He turned down the other job so Brewdog consulted with the RNIB about what they could do to make things safer for him and those around him. Only after all that did they decide to let him go and got taken to the tribunal which was divided in opinion but found for the employee in a split decision (one of the 3 on the panel disagreed) and awarded him £12,000.

Yes, they probably could have done a bit better but it hardly makes them a terrible company. They acted out of genuine safety concerns but got it wrong. Whilst I was looking that up I also came across a couple of other employment tribunal claims againt them which were either unsuccessful or withdrawn.


----------



## tommers (Oct 6, 2019)

Callie said:


> cauliflower wings.



Sorry. But this makes me laugh. Is this lumps of cauliflower? 

It's cos of that Keto diet. Cauliflower rice, cauliflower steak, cauliflower pizza.  Those cauliflower farmers must be like "I never dreamed this day would come."


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 6, 2019)

Combustible said:


> I meant in terms of carbon emissions, the production of beef produces about 4x the CO2 per g of chicken, so a half-beef burger has a carbon footprint twice that of a similarly sized full chicken one (ignoring the carbon footprint of the meat substitute). In terms of animal welfare, there is no reason why you would need to use factory or intensively farmed chicken to make a burger, I have no idea if Brewdog do or not.


The big chicken sellers like McDonalds and KFC use intensively farmed chicken although surprisingly McD's does have higher AW standards than many others. They've also looked into using free range poultry but the cost is SO much higher that the conclusion was that few would pay the extra although all their eggs are free range in the UK. If an outfit with the buying power of McD's can't do it profitably you'd have to question whether far smaller players could.

I take your point regarding carbon footprints.


----------



## Callie (Oct 6, 2019)

tommers said:


> Sorry. But this makes me laugh. Is this lumps of cauliflower?
> 
> It's cos of that Keto diet. Cauliflower rice, cauliflower steak, cauliflower pizza.  Those cauliflower farmers must be like "I never dreamed this day would come."


I dunno if it's a keto thing but buffalo style cauliflower instead of chicken is definitely A THING. A few places do it. Not tried it myself but can see how chunks of cauli would work as a vessel for buffalo sauce and (I assume) a vegan blue cheese sauce substitute.


----------



## tommers (Oct 6, 2019)

Callie said:


> I dunno if it's a keto thing but buffalo style cauliflower instead of chicken is definitely A THING. A few places do it. Not tried it myself but can see how chunks of cauli would work as a vessel for buffalo sauce and (I assume) a vegan blue cheese sauce substitute.


I'm going to do some research to cheer up my Sunday morning.


----------



## tommers (Oct 6, 2019)

When I say research I clearly mean "first Google result".

Baked Buffalo Cauliflower wings (Vegan Option)

Looks alright to be fair. Might try them.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 6, 2019)

Gaia said:


> Now I have too, but without the bun (that said I've not really been able to eat owt spicy since I've been ill either). My occasional treat (because they were very expensive) was peri-peri droewors from   Raging Bull Meats which had a shop on the Finchley Road for about 4 years (his business model was shite - he insisted on importing all his meat from South Africa, Namibia and Zimbabwe because he didn't believe British beef was 'authentic' enough). Did many kinds of biltong too (the ostrich was very tasty).
> 
> I reckon if he'd not been so snobbish about the meat, he'd still be in business (there was a butcher's in GX which did biltong, made by a genuine South African but they used British meat).


I know (knew?) them well. Have they gone?


----------



## Callie (Oct 6, 2019)

tommers said:


> I'm going to do some research to cheer up my Sunday morning.


I thought this meant you were heading to the pub


----------



## tommers (Oct 6, 2019)

Callie said:


> I thought this meant you were heading to the pub


Haha. I'm still getting over last night's drinking. I'm not fancying a bloody brewdog.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 6, 2019)

Chicken wings are shit anyway, assume switching to cauliflower isn't a huge improvement


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 6, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Chicken wings are shit anyway ...


I've never understood why pieces of chicken that are 2 thirds bone are so popular.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 6, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I've never understood why pieces of chicken that are 2 thirds bone are so popular.


I can understand why they are popular with restaurants and pubs tbf, cheap as fuck


----------



## teuchter (Oct 6, 2019)

Now we're onto the middle class people of urban being snobby about chicken wings.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 6, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Now we're onto the middle class people of urban being snobby about chicken wings.


Are you a chicken wing man?


----------



## YouSir (Oct 6, 2019)

Chicken shop hot wings are great, from the right shop anyway. Wings meal and one piece on top is the default choice for me.


----------



## YouSir (Oct 6, 2019)

Also US bar wings are ok, too messy mind.


----------



## maomao (Oct 6, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I've never understood why pieces of chicken that are 2 thirds bone are so popular.


More fun to pick apart and gnaw on. Also higher ratio of crispy skin to bland flesh. In China wings are the expensive bits and boring chicken breasts are the cheapest cut.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 6, 2019)

maomao said:


> In China wings are the expensive bits and boring chicken breasts are the cheapest cut.


Trade deal in the making right there


----------



## teuchter (Oct 6, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Are you a chicken wing man?


I'm a middle class person off urban. Not particularly into chicken wings.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 6, 2019)

teuchter said:


> I'm a middle class person off urban. Not particularly into chicken wings.


Shame, I was hoping for a rogue bone


----------



## 8ball (Oct 6, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> YOU are 60% water - You are 40% human?



Factor the carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, calcium and phosphorus into that equation and I think you’ll find you’re a small sachet of iron filings and a few mineral salts.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 6, 2019)

discobastard said:


> It's raising awareness and getting people to think about it.  Given that they already offer two other vegan burgers on their menu, it is targeting those that are wavering or a vegan-curious (like myself).
> 
> It's actually very clever.  And all the hysterical types tweeting about how it's not vegan and you've got to be vegan or not vegan are missing the point by quite some distance.  a) It _isn't _vegan and it _isn't meant _to be, and b) it isn't aimed at vegans, it is aimed at the vegan curious.



That’s a fair point, if you’re just a teeny bit veg*-curious and don’t want to risk an inedible burger on a night out, it makes sense.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 6, 2019)

NoXion said:


> I'm not convinced that talking about this company on Urban, especially in the largely negative way it happens, really does anything significant to raise their profile. I reckon all that marketing money they spend would be the main driver. Maybe they're getting boosted by "influencers" on social media with millions of followers. How many people are active on Urban these days? Especially since web forums are old hat now.



I endorse this message, and would be pleased to see such rationality extended to other threads.


----------



## Combustible (Oct 6, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Trade deal in the making right there



Can throw in the chickens' feet for good measure


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 7, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I've never understood why pieces of chicken that are 2 thirds bone are so popular.



Batter/dark meat ratio I think is the main thing. Have to be done well obviously. And have lots of them.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 7, 2019)

maomao said:


> In China wings are the expensive bits and boring chicken breasts are the cheapest cut.


Chicken breast is dry and bland. Thigh meat is where the proper action is.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 7, 2019)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> Batter/dark meat ratio I think is the main thing. Have to be done well obviously. And have lots of them.


They're ok, I just don't think I've ever had mind-blowing chicken wings, though everyone else seem to rave about them.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 7, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> They're ok, I just don't think I've ever had mind-blowing chicken wings, though everyone else seem to rave about them.



These can be bloody awesome. It's probably for the best I don't have a frier, so they are a faff to make and clean up from... 


https://www.maangchi.com/recipe/easy-dakgangjeong


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2019)

"TAKING A STAND FOR THE ENVIRONMENT WITH THE BREWDOG HYBRID BURGER"
"It is a unique Hybrid created to be the best of both worlds, in order to help our own."

Utter cunts. Who the fuck in their right mind would want to support this greenwash bullshit. 

TAKING A STAND FOR THE ENVIRONMENT WITH THE BREWDOG HYBRID BURGER


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 8, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> They're ok, I just don't think I've ever had mind-blowing chicken wings, though everyone else seem to rave about them.


chickens surely do


----------



## 8ball (Oct 8, 2019)

editor said:


> "TAKING A STAND FOR THE ENVIRONMENT WITH THE BREWDOG HYBRID BURGER"
> "It is a unique Hybrid created to be the best of both worlds, in order to help our own."
> 
> Utter cunts. Who the fuck in their right mind would want to support this greenwash bullshit.
> ...



I can see the veins in your forehead.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> I can see the veins in your forehead.


It really doesn't make me that angry. More exasperated with the people who buy into this kind of shit.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 8, 2019)

editor said:


> It really doesn't make me that angry. More exasperated with the people who buy into this kind of shit.



'Twas ever thus.  To me, it's no biggie in concept; sustainably reared meat, with some non-meat stuff too,  attract some veg*-curious types.

Personally, the fact that it looks like the bun has gone mouldy is more troubling.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> 'Twas ever thus.  To me, it's no biggie in concept; sustainably reared meat, with some non-meat stuff too,  attract some veg*-curious types.
> 
> Personally, the fact that it looks like the bun has gone mouldy is more troubling.


It's vacuous, pointless, greenwash PR driven by current trends profiteering that should always be ridiculed and challenged.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 8, 2019)

editor said:


> It's vacuous, pointless, greenwash PR driven by current trends profiteering that should always be ridiculed and challenged.



When it's a totally vegan outfit doing this you always seem fully onboard.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> When it's a totally vegan outfit doing this you always seem fully onboard.


Maybe that's because they're not a  fake punk, equity-promoting, sexist bunch of shitehawks making token gestures while promoting and shifting tons of meat every week.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 8, 2019)

editor said:


> Maybe that's because they're not a  fake punk, equity-promoting, sexist bunch of shitehawks making token gestures while promoting and shifting tons of meat every week.



Ah.  Would have been clearer to have said that the first time.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2019)

Just look at this fucking bollocks: 

ALPHA DOGS PACKAGE
£1,000+
Punk Day privilege – get a meal and 2 drinks (any standard serve of BrewDog draft) for you for free on annual Punk Day, the first Saturday in September annually.

Benefits


----------



## 8ball (Oct 8, 2019)

editor said:


> Just look at this fucking bollocks:
> 
> ALPHA DOGS PACKAGE
> £1,000+
> ...



...and a friends & family discount.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2019)

8ball said:


> ...and a friends & family discount.


Oh wow! What is it? 50%?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 8, 2019)

editor said:


> Oh wow! What is it? 50%?



Dunno, didn't look.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 8, 2019)

That fundraiser’s doing splendidly!


----------



## teuchter (Oct 8, 2019)

Greggs do a vegan sausage roll and piers morgan loses the plot. 

Brewdog do a half vegan burger and half of urban loses the plot. 

These companies know their target markets, for sure.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 8, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> chickens surely do


This made me actually lol, dunno why I was first to like it


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 8, 2019)

ViolentPanda said:


> Well late for catching the St. Paddy's Day market, too!



Probably getting rid of old stock from this year’s one, just needed the right gimmick to build around it.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 8, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> They're ok, I just don't think I've ever had mind-blowing chicken wings, though everyone else seem to rave about them.



I think the point is that they have a very high surface to volume ratio so you can get absolutely shitloads of sauce on them. Good sauce - good wings. The wings themselves are just OK, agreed.


----------



## alex_ (Oct 8, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Greggs do a vegan sausage roll and piers morgan loses the plot.
> 
> Brewdog do a half vegan burger and half of urban loses the plot.
> 
> These companies know their target markets, for sure.



what cracks me up is that is exactly what the marketing twats who came up with this want, the people who are manipulated here know they are being manipulated and they still have a thrombo.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2019)

alex_ said:


> what cracks me up is that is exactly what the marketing twats who came up with this want, the people who are manipulated here know they are being manipulated and they still have a thrombo.


No idea what a 'thrombo' is or why you're so keen to support these wankers. And your notion that their marketing team want people to think they're cunts and tell their friends to never ever go there is some sort of win is exceedingly stupid. 

It's their toe-curlingly naff marketing that has stopped me wanting to ever give them a penny or ever visit their bars.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 8, 2019)

Does the fact that I'm largely indifferent to this burger make me a winner? Or do the marketers win no matter what?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 8, 2019)

editor said:


> No idea what a 'thrombo' is or why you're so keen to support these wankers. And your notion that their marketing team want people to think they're cunts and tell their friends to never ever go there is some sort of win is exceedingly stupid.



I think Spymaster is the perfect counter to what otherwise looks like a reasonable argument.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Does the fact that I'm largely indifferent to this burger make me a winner? Or do the marketers win no matter what?


If you ever think anything about Brewdog - even if it's just a passing thought along the lines of "what a load of shitebags they are," apparently they have "won."


----------



## alex_ (Oct 8, 2019)

editor said:


> No idea what a 'thrombo' is or why you're so keen to support these wankers. And your notion that their marketing team want people to think they're cunts and tell their friends to never ever go there is some sort of win is exceedingly stupid.
> 
> It's their toe-curlingly naff marketing that has stopped me wanting to ever give them a penny or ever visit their bars.



Thrombo Urban Dictionary: thrombo

“keen to support these twats”, only one of us is giving them the oxygen of publicity.

Search on google for “outrage pr”


----------



## killer b (Oct 8, 2019)

'thrombo' is new to me, but good. thanks for the heads up.


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2019)

alex_ said:


> “keen to support these twats”, only one of us is giving them the oxygen of publicity.


So if I call you a twat and tell everyone else who knows you - and people you haven't met yet - that you're a twat too, I'm actually supporting you?  Awesome logic!


----------



## alex_ (Oct 8, 2019)

editor said:


> So if I call you a twat and tell everyone else who knows you - and people you haven't met yet - that you're a twat too, I'm actually supporting you?  Awesome logic!



No, if I opened a hideously inappropriately themed or named bar in brixton and you started a thread here about how tasteless it was and posted links to my twitter feed, you’d be doing me a favour by generating outrage and sending me twattors.

( you do know that you keep posting links to brewdog blogs don’t you ? )

Alex


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2019)

alex_ said:


> No, if I opened a hideously inappropriately themed or named bar in brixton and you started a thread here about how tasteless it was - you’d be doing me a favour by generating outrage.
> 
> Alex


Except I didn't start this thread and if you had a_ny understanding at all_ of how social media works you'd know that whatever is said on a relatively obscure forum discussing UK politics is of absolutely zero consequence to a bar in Brixton. To suggest that this thread is somehow driving traffic to the bar is sheer bonkersland fantasy.

Are you sure you're not one of those 'equity punks' because you sure can't stop yourself trying to shut down any criticism of the wankstain company!


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 8, 2019)




----------



## alex_ (Oct 8, 2019)

editor said:


> Except I didn't start this thread and if you had a_ny understanding at all_ of how social media works you'd know that whatever is said on a relatively obscure forum discussing UK politics is of absolutely zero consequence to a bar in Brixton. To suggest that this thread is somehow driving traffic to the bar is sheer bonkersland fantasy.
> 
> Are you sure you're not one of those 'equity punks' because you sure can't stop yourself trying to shut down any criticism of the wankstain company!



I’m sure you are well aware how google search rankings work and that only one of us is repeatedly posting links to brewdog media.

I was replying to the below and criticising your simile - as you are well aware.



editor said:


> So if I call you a twat and tell everyone else who knows you - and people you haven't met yet - that you're a twat too, I'm actually supporting you?  Awesome logic!


----------



## editor (Oct 8, 2019)

alex_ said:


> I’m sure you are also well aware how google search rankings work and only one of us is repeatedly posting links to brewdog media.


Wait. So now you're saying that posting up two or three links in a 40 page thread is going to send this thread soaring to the top of Google search engine rankings? So whoever searches for the company will be taken straight to pages and pages or entirely negative commentary?

That's fantastic! Or rather it would be if it was true, but you really don't have much of a clue about what it takes to get a high Google ranking on a company keyword. Clue: a few links on a non-mainstream bulletin board with 15,000,000 posts really isn't going to do the job.


----------



## alex_ (Oct 8, 2019)

editor said:


> Wait. So now you're saying that posting up two or three links in a 40 page thread is going to send this thread soaring to the top of Google search engine rankings? So whoever searches for the company will be taken straight to pages and pages or entirely negative commentary?



nice straw man argument, it’s easy to Refute what I don’t say !

everyone posting links to brewdog media contributes to search rankings ( as you are well aware ), nowhere have I said what you say above.

So far in this thread, you’ve made ad hominem attacks ( “if I published a blog calling you a twat” ), you’ve accused me of being corrupt “are you an equity punk”, and now a straw man argument.

Good work

Alex


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

I doubt very much that posting links to Brewdog blogs here will make any difference to their sales.  I think we may be overestimating the reach of Urban75 somewhat.

It's really quite simple, they have created a product that nods to sustainability and may make the vegan curious more likely to try and enjoy vegan food.  That can only be a good thing.  And the nonsense comments made about 'they should serve _real_ vegan products', well, you didn't read stuff properly, because as has been pointed out, they do have quite a decent vegetarian/vegan offering.

If you are one of those people that is enraged by their success and want to find fault in everything they do because they are quite provocative in their marketing then you are welcome to do that.

The 'environmental' (possible overclaim) benefit is not much different to hotel chains asking you to 'save the environment' by chucking your towels in the bath.  But nobody is raging against them are they.

Everybody can make a choice in life, and it doesn't sound like the enraged here would patronise Brewdog.  I imagine many of the enraged might drink other beers made by massive multinational companies run by even bigger cunts, such as Heineken.

Here's an example:
Heineken claims its business helps Africa. Is that too good to be true?

Compassion fade - Wikipedia


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

NoXion said:


> Does the fact that I'm largely indifferent to this burger make me a winner? Or do the marketers win no matter what?


They are merely promoting a product.  If it goes well, they will sell burgers and some people might be more tempted to try vegan food.  If it doesn't, they won't, and it will quietly be taken off menu.  

That is how business works.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 8, 2019)

I quite like this idea people need a glidepath to trying vegan food, like some sort of gateway, start with a tbone with some vegan cheese on top before working up to the real deal in increments. Cold sweats from meat withdrawal.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I quite like this idea people need a glidepath to trying vegan food, like some sort of gateway, start with a tbone with some vegan cheese on top before working up to the real deal in increments. Cold sweats from meat withdrawal.


It's a fairly well established theory of behaviour change.  Admittedly the diagram doesn't contain all of the nuance.  But yes it's a glidepath.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 8, 2019)

It's just food without meat or dairy it in though


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> It's just food without meat or dairy it in though


Not clear on what you mean.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 8, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Not clear on what you mean.


I mean that nobody needs to work up to it by having a vegan meal with a pork sausage in it. Or indeed some beef mince added. It's not 12 steps to sobriety. It's not even giving up meat and dairy forever. Its absolutely mental to think sticking vegan cheese on a beef burger is some sort of strike for the environment. I mean I'm not arsed in slightest but it's a marketing gimmick designed to be provocative and pretending anything else is obviously bollocks


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I mean that nobody needs to work up to it by having a vegan meal with a pork sausage in it. Or indeed some beef mince added. It's not 12 steps to sobriety. It's not even giving up meat and dairy forever. Its absolutely mental to think sticking vegan cheese on a beef burger is some sort of strike for the environment. I mean I'm not arsed in slightest but it's a marketing gimmick designed to be provocative and pretending anything else is obviously bollocks


But it's not just sticking some vegan cheese on a meat burger is it as a strike for the environment?  It's giving people the opportunity to try a vegan burger alongside a meat burger.

Need to be more precise in your analysis, as what you're stating is a misrepresentation.  Do you think the vegan vs meat burger might get some people to think about going for a full vegan burger next time?  And yes, there is marketing involved, there is also the novelty factor.

This whole stuff about it being just a marketing gimmick is a red herring IMO - I'm not quite clear what people _actually_ mean by that - is it harmful in some way?  Is it _not_ going to get some people thinking that actually that vegan part of the meal wasn't bad and I might go full vegan next time?

ETA - it might not change the world but as a business that brews a huge variety of interesting beers (inc. vegan beers) as well as having a really diverse vegetarian/vegan/meat menu, is it not worth trying something?  If businesses didn't stick their necks out and try these things, we'd have a very dull range of things to buy.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 8, 2019)

discobastard said:


> But it's not just sticking some vegan cheese on a meat burger is it as a strike for the environment?  It's giving people the opportunity to try a vegan burger alongside a meat burger.
> 
> Need to be more precise in your analysis, as what you're stating is a misrepresentation.  Do you think the vegan vs meat burger might get some people to think about going for a full vegan burger next time?  And yes, there is marketing involved, there is also the novelty factor.
> 
> This whole stuff about it being just a marketing gimmick is a red herring IMO - I'm not quite clear what people _actually_ mean by that - is it harmful in some way?  Is it _not_ going to get some people thinking that actually that vegan part of the meal wasn't bad and I might go full vegan next time?



I think you've misunderstood. This is a burger made of a mix of beef mince and beyond meat mince. It isn't two seperate burgers, it's not trying 'a vegan burger alongside a meat burger'. It's just a burger. It will taste just like a burger. Just with vegan cheese and a twatty bun. Get a grip.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I think you've misunderstood. This is a burger made of a mix of beef mince and beyond meat mince. It isn't two seperate burgers, it's not trying 'a vegan burger alongside a meat burger'. It's just a burger. It will taste just like a burger. Just with vegan cheese and a twatty bun. Get a grip.


I haven't misunderstood.  Thought that was cleared up a few pages ago.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

Now that's cleared up we can move on to hating on them for the twatty and gimmicky green buns (again)


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 8, 2019)

discobastard said:


> I haven't misunderstood.  Thought that was cleared up a few pages ago.
> 
> View attachment 186385 View attachment 186387


Dunno where you've taken that from but this is from their own website. It's called the 50/50 hybrid burger because it's beef mince and vegan mince. That photo clearly shows one patty. The other thing is a potato rosti mate


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Dunno where you've taken that from but this is from their own website. It's called the 50/50 hybrid burger because it's beef mince and vegan mince. That photo clearly shows one patty. The other thing is a potato rosti mate



Well, graciously admit the national newspaper I took that from may have misinformed. 

Looks like I was wrong (you don't hear that often here do you??)  Always happy to admit that...

There's at least three of the nationals that describe is as two burgers - meat and vegan. 

I might write to them and suggest that the two patty idea is a better one.

While not still carrying as much weight, still think it is a positive move for the vegan curious myself.  But then we don't all agree here do we?


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

Looking through the reports, this also came up

BrewDog Is Opening Its First 100% Vegan Pub

So they ain't all bad.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 8, 2019)

Which is why it's a bit wank. Just use 100% beyond meat in the burger patty and be done with it.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 8, 2019)

They're discriminatory towards their employees, but I guess opening one vegan pub makes them great...


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 8, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Well, graciously admit the national newspaper I took that from may have misinformed.
> 
> Looks like I was wrong (you don't hear that often here do you??)  Always happy to admit that...
> 
> ...


Fair play. Surely we can all agree it's a bit nathan barley though


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Which is why it's a bit wank. Just use 100% beyond meat in the burger patty and be done with it.


Out of eight burgers they serve, three are vegan.  What is wrong with one that is a hybrid (whether it was misreported and caused confusion or not?  It can still be a way for the vegan curious to eat less meat and possibly go full vegan.  I'm not clear on what the objection is?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 8, 2019)

I suspect it's a mixed patty because they can keep the costs down by still using meat. The beyond Meat stuff isn't cheap.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> They're discriminatory towards their employees, but I guess opening one vegan pub makes them great...


What a ridiculous thing to say.  I never said it made them great, I said 'not all bad'.  

They had a high profile issue with an employee, the details of which are up there.  You seem to be suggesting they are discriminatory to all their employees.  Evidence?  Proportionality?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 8, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Out of eight burgers they serve, three are vegan.  What is wrong with one that is a hybrid (whether it was misreported and caused confusion or not?  It can still be a way for the vegan curious to eat less meat and possibly go full vegan.  I'm not clear on what the objection is?


Because if they're going to the trouble to make every other item in the burger vegan, why not the burger as well? 

Christ, it's not like vegan food requires a gateway item before going 'full vegan' as you put it. A burger with meat in it is not a vegan burger, even if everything else is vegan in it.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I suspect it's a mixed patty because they can keep the costs down by still using meat. The beyond Meat stuff isn't cheap.



THREE OF EIGHT BURGERS THEY SERVE ARE VEGAN (EXCLUDING THIS ONE).  That doesn't suggest that they are doing it to save money.  You're not prepared to accept the argument that it might help some of the vegan curious over the line, are you?  Why is that?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 8, 2019)

discobastard said:


> What a ridiculous thing to say.  I never said it made them great, I said 'not all bad'.
> 
> They had a high profile issue with an employee, the details of which are up there.  You seem to be suggesting they are discriminatory to all their employees.  Evidence?  Proportionality?


In my experience, it's symptomatic if a wider culture issue and unlikely to be limited to a single instance.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

People are still allowed a choice aren't they?  If I understand you right, you're saying that all their burgers should be vegan, is that it?  I'm not quite clear on your going in point here.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 8, 2019)

discobastard said:


> THREE OF EIGHT BURGERS THEY SERVE ARE VEGAN (EXCLUDING THIS ONE).  That doesn't suggest that they are doing it to save money.  You're not prepared to accept the argument that it might help some of the vegan curious over the line, are you?  Why is that?


You're not prepared to accept Brewdog are doing this for anything other than altruistic reasons. Why is that?


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> In my experience, it's symptomatic if a wider culture issue and unlikely to be limited to a single instance.


In your experience of other businesses maybe.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 8, 2019)

discobastard said:


> People are still allowed a choice aren't they?  If I understand you right, you're saying that all their burgers should be vegan, is that it?  I'm not quite clear on your going in point here.


No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that a hybrid burger is a waste of time.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> You're not prepared to accept Brewdog are doing this for anything other than altruistic reasons. Why is that?


You haven't answered quite an important question.

Though, respectfully I will answer yours.  I'm not stupid enough to believe that Brewdog are doing this for purely altruistic reasons, very few businesses do.  But some businesses aim to do things that will benefit themselves, their customers, and wider society.  Even if it is in a small way.

A business that caters better to vegans gives vegans better choice (whether they want to drink in Brewdog pubs or not - I am sure many do).  Which means they will attract more vegan customers.

95% of their beers are vegan I just read btw.

You're putting forward entirely binary arguments and the world doesn't work like that.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> No, I'm not saying that, I'm saying that a hybrid burger is a waste of time.


For whom?  And in what way?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 8, 2019)

discobastard said:


> You haven't answered quite an important question.
> 
> Though, respectfully I will answer yours.  I'm not stupid enough to believe that Brewdog are doing this for purely altruistic reasons, very few businesses do.  But some businesses aim to do things that will benefit themselves, their customers, and wider society.  Even if it is in a small way.
> 
> You're putting forward entirely binary arguments and the world doesn't work like that.


Oh, gosh, doesn't it? Thank you so much for pointing that out to me.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

discobastard said:


> You haven't answered quite an important question.
> 
> Though, respectfully I will answer yours.  I'm not stupid enough to believe that Brewdog are doing this for purely altruistic reasons, very few businesses do.  But some businesses aim to do things that will benefit themselves, their customers, and wider society.  Even if it is in a small way.
> 
> ...





equationgirl said:


> Oh, gosh, doesn't it? Thank you so much for pointing that out to me.



You're welcome, and you can still avoid the question!


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 8, 2019)

If someone wants to try vegan food, they will try vegan food. It's like someone who has meat based meals with vegetables included saying they eat vegan about half the time, because of the vegetables. 

Vegans aren't about to start eating hybrid burgers and claim they're mostly vegan. 

So eating it is a waste of time. 

Someone will eat one and persuade themselves that because they ate half a patty less of meat, they saved the planet. They didn't.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 8, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> If someone wants to try vegan food, they will try vegan food. It's like someone who has meat based meals with vegetables included saying they eat vegan about half the time, because of the vegetables.



I eat meat.  I have tried vegan food.  It's OK.  I really like the Leon vegan burger and now choose that instead of the chicken one.  If I were to eat in a Brewdog pub, I would be tempted to try this.  It is all reconditioning me about the default to meat and being open to vegan food.  I now eat a lot less meat than I did a year ago.  It all helps, and I may reduce my meat intake even more.  So in my opinion, it is a positive thing.

To say that it is about people eating half vegetables saying they are half vegan is nonsense.  Nobody thinks like that and to suggest that this burger is doing that seems like an odd conclusion to come to, but you are welcome to come to that conclusion.  



equationgirl said:


> Vegans aren't about to start eating hybrid burgers and claim they're mostly vegan.
> 
> So eating it is a waste of time.



This has nothing to do with vegans eating hybrid burgers and I suspect you know that.  Do you think they are trying to convert vegans back to meat?  THat does vegans a disservices I think.  It is about the point above.  Which IMO is not a waste of time.



equationgirl said:


> Someone will eat one and persuade themselves that because they ate half a patty less of meat, they saved the planet. They didn't.



I very much doubt somebody will eat this and convince themselves they 'saved the planet' (see point about hotels and towels).  It is about small and incremental changes.  

Anyway, we aren't going to agree, and it is after all just a bunch of people arguing on the internet.  Have a lovely rest of the evening.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 8, 2019)

I'm vegetarian (and for ever  -- I was brought up as) and I hardly ever eat veggie or vegan burgers -- I simply can't be doing with imitation meat ....

Just saying like


----------



## alex_ (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> It's a fairly well established theory of behaviour change.  Admittedly the diagram doesn't contain all of the nuance.  But yes it's a glidepath.
> View attachment 186379



Though at the moment it’s more like the Kübler Ross model, and at the moment we are still in “denial”


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I mean that nobody needs to work up to it by having a vegan meal with a pork sausage in it. Or indeed some beef mince added. It's not 12 steps to sobriety. It's not even giving up meat and dairy forever. Its absolutely mental to think sticking vegan cheese on a beef burger is some sort of strike for the environment. I mean I'm not arsed in slightest but it's a marketing gimmick designed to be provocative and pretending anything else is obviously bollocks



People have psychological relationships with food that can be hard to change. This is why we see both problematic overeating and problematic undereating associating with all sorts of mental health issues. Your '12 steps' comment is closer to the mark than you think, because food activates the same reward circuits in the brain that lead people into chemical and behavioural addictions. 

I believe there's a balance to be struck between respecting the attachments and associations people may have have with certain foods and tackling the consequences of producing those foods. Whether or not you care about the fact that roast chicken reminds someone of their dear departed mum, the fact is they're not likely to stop eating it if all anyone does is make them feel like a cunt about it.

I don't think anyone's suggesting putting vegan bits on a non-vegan meal (except these ludicrous arseholes at brewdog) but rather eating completely vegan meals sometimes, then more often, then nearly always, then always. Each step in that process represents a quantifiable improvement in terms of animal welfare and environmental impact, and is easier than going straight from level zero to level four.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

William of Walworth said:


> I'm vegetarian (and for ever  -- I was brought up as) and I hardly ever eat veggie or vegan burgers -- I simply can't be doing with imitation meat ....
> 
> Just saying like



Well if you've never had to break an existing attachment to meaty foods, you are probably not in a great position to tell others how they should do it. 

HTH


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Looking through the reports, this also came up
> 
> BrewDog Is Opening Its First 100% Vegan Pub
> 
> So they ain't all bad.



They are absolutely all bad. Refraining from doing one bad thing in one particular location doesn't change the fact that their basic mode of existence is cancerous.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> their basic mode of existence is cancerous.



Can you outline this to me in rational terms?  And why so in comparison to other similar businesses?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Can you outline this to me in rational terms?  And why so in comparison to other similar businesses?



Their business model is all about marketing and branding over quality. The whole notion of 'craft beer' is based on an unsubstantiated implication that a bunch of trust fund babies somehow put more expertise and attention into making beer than breweries, big and small, who have been doing what they do for centuries. 

Brewdog are expansionist, above and beyond normal capitalist enterprises, and they use spurious crowdfunding ventures to fuel this expansion. They are shameless in their appropriation of cultural tropes, not least 'punk', that they have less than nothing to do with.

And ultimately their beer is filth and their pubs are fucking horrid barns full of faux-authenticity and braying arseholes. For every one that opens a real pub closes its doors somewhere.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I mean that nobody needs to work up to it by having a vegan meal with a pork sausage in it. Or indeed some beef mince added. It's not 12 steps to sobriety. It's not even giving up meat and dairy forever. Its absolutely mental to think sticking vegan cheese on a beef burger is some sort of strike for the environment. I mean I'm not arsed in slightest but it's a marketing gimmick designed to be provocative and pretending anything else is obviously bollocks



 You're right of course, and I think most watchers are simply enjoying the thrombo throwing and hypocrisy displays.

Everything that has been used to attack Brewdog on this topic has also been used to defend vegan products at some point. A close parallel is "vegan meat products". The thrombo brigade have defended vegan sausages and the like, on the basis that they allow new-ish vegans to still participate in the 'culture' around meat eating and overcome psychological dependencies without actually eating meat. Yet those same people reject Disco's argument that a gradual reduction in meat could also be helpful to some and that the opposite might work too.

Check out the hypocrisy going on here with regards to "vegan bacon" - Bullshit product of marketing by huge corporates? _Fuck yeah!_ But that gets forgotten and a frequent refrain we'll hear from the thrombos in its defence is "why does anyone give a fuck about what anyone else eats?" However they're very short of space in affording others the same courtesy, aren't they!

Do a seach on "vegan meat products" on these boards and you'll find pages of spirited defences of these things by the very same people who are chucking their toys around over Brewdog's "hybrid burger". In fact, the very first result of that search is this thread. A defence of a 'bleeding no-meat burger' marketed by that famous bastion of environmental concern and bulwark of workers rights, _Air New Zealand! _

You couldn't make it up!


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

What does 'faux-authenticity' mean? Brewdog bars are all pretty modern and bland IME. About as faux-authentic as Macdonalds.

(fwiw I think the craft beer trend that Brewdog have been a big part of spearheading has actually been a shot in the arm for decent boozers - the ongoing rash of closures of pubs in recent years is to do with much wider social changes and inflexible giant pubcos)


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Which is why it's a bit wank. Just use 100% beyond meat in the burger patty and be done with it.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> They're discriminatory towards their employees, but I guess opening one vegan pub makes them great...


We've been here. No matter how much you try to inflate one very complex case into being their corporate philosphy, people are going to realise you're bullshitting.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I suspect it's a mixed patty because they can keep the costs down by still using meat. The beyond Meat stuff isn't cheap.


Christ! When will it end???


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Vegans aren't about to start eating hybrid burgers and claim they're mostly vegan.


Seriously??? 

You were proper on one one last night weren't you???


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Well if you've never had to break an existing attachment to meaty foods, you are probably not in a great position to tell others how they should do it.
> 
> HTH


Many of them have though, hence the rabid defences of 'vegan meat' products.


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

having a totally normal one this morning Spy?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> having a totally normal one this morning Spy?


Nothing if not reliable, KB.


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

5 posts in a row, man - I'm just concerned about your blood pressure. Don't want you to end up with a thrombo.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> 5 posts in a row, man - I'm just concerned about your blood pressure. Don't want you to end up with a thrombo.


I'm thrombo safe at the moment! 

It's just the way I read the boards. I often respond to individual posts rather than multi-quoting so you get a carpet bombing of replies, especially if somone posts 4 or 5 stupid things in a row.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> (fwiw I think the craft beer trend that Brewdog have been a big part of spearheading has actually been a shot in the arm for decent boozers - the ongoing rash of closures of pubs in recent years is to do with much wider social changes and inflexible giant pubcos)



I didn't say brewdog were killing pubs, only that their rise has come during a time of mass pub closures. Which you seem to agree with.


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

that's pretty embarrassing frank, but ok.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Their business model is all about marketing and branding over quality.



They were the first to produce a non-alcoholic beer that actually tasted of anything, and was fairly widely available. That was quite a big deal for anyone who wants some non-alcoholic options. I think they actually achieved this thanks to their marketing and branding (make a 0% beer that pubs could believe would sell).

For those 'traditional' pubs who can manage to get over the perceived image problems of selling decent non-alcoholic options, the existence of stuff like Nanny State can only help their viability in my opinion. It's actually made me more inclined to go out to pubs in general again. I've never been in a Brewdog pub and have no particular inclination to change that.

There may be many negative things about the company and the way it operates but it's silly to say that nothing positive has ever come out of them.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I didn't say brewdog were killing pubs, only that their rise has come during a time of mass pub closures.


That's really not what you implied but that in itself is quite remarkable. Given the pressures on the industry in general you'd have to conclude that their success is the result of people taking-up their offerrings and whether they've manufactured the market for themselves or filled an already existing gap, their success is creditable. There are plently of other places for people who prefer something else.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> that's pretty embarrassing frank, but ok.




Why? To me embarassing would be claiming that brewdog and pals had been a shot in the arm for a sector which you then admitted, in the same sentence, was declining.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I didn't say brewdog were killing pubs,


Your wording clearly implied it.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> We've been here. No matter how much you try to inflate one very complex case into being their corporate philosphy, people are going to realise you're bullshitting.


It wasn't a complex case, it was very straightforward. They were told to make entirely reasonable adjustments, and they refused to.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Seriously???
> 
> You were proper on one one last night weren't you???


No. I don't drink. What's your excuse?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> They were told to make entirely reasonable adjustments, and they refused to.


Links please. Thanks.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I don't drink.


Blimey, you actually posted that sober!


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Links please. Thanks.


Find them yourself. They're in the public domain. And no way am I going to do something for you when you've treated me like shit on this and other threads.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Blimey, you actually posted that sober!



Not everyone uses the word sober purely in reference to alcohol.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Blimey, you actually posted that sober!


So? Is being sober something to be ashamed of?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

I don't do drugs other than my prescription meds either.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Find them yourself.


That'll be a "no" then. 

As per.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> So? Is being sober something to be ashamed of?


Not at all. But posting bollocks like that with no excuses is.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Not everyone uses the word sober purely in reference to alcohol.


It was the context in which I used it there though.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Not at all. But posting bollocks like that with no excuses is.


Well you continually post bollocks, what's your excuse. 

Top tip: try going back a bit in the thread, there's plenty on the tribunal case already posted. Do you want me to read them for you too?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> What does 'faux-authenticity' mean? Brewdog bars are all pretty modern and bland IME. About as faux-authentic as Macdonalds.



Is it authentic modern blandness, or is it faking it?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Do you want me to read them for you too?


Nope. Links will be fine, thanks.

I've read the case pretty thoroughly now and think you're almost certainly wrong again. Happy to admit I may have missed something, so off you go.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Is it authentic modern blandness, or is it faking it?



It is both falsely authentic and authentically false.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Their business model is all about marketing and branding over quality. The whole notion of 'craft beer' is based on an unsubstantiated implication that a bunch of trust fund babies somehow put more expertise and attention into making beer than breweries, big and small, who have been doing what they do for centuries.
> 
> Brewdog are expansionist, above and beyond normal capitalist enterprises, and they use spurious crowdfunding ventures to fuel this expansion. They are shameless in their appropriation of cultural tropes, not least 'punk', that they have less than nothing to do with.
> 
> And ultimately their beer is filth and their pubs are fucking horrid barns full of faux-authenticity and braying arseholes. For every one that opens a real pub closes its doors somewhere.



Are they worse than the massive multinationals then?

And to say their beer is filth and their pubs are fucking horrid barns full of faux-authenticity and braying arseholes.  Well, it's all down to personal taste isn't it?

Their beers are actually really diverse - far better than anything produced by the global beer cos, and not that different from many of the other craft providers.  With a commitment to producing really decent AF beer and coming up to half of their food vegan I think they do a pretty good job compared to most pub/beer companies.

Most times I have been in Brewdog pubs, the people have most certainly not been braying arseholes (what exactly is a braying arsehole, pray tell?)

And where did you get the information that they were started by trust funders?  Trust funds are pretty rare really, but the phrase gets tossed around here quite a lot incorrectly, when what you really mean is having gotten some investment or used some savings.  Which is pretty much how any business starts.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> It is both falsely authentic and authentically false.


There are neither such things.  It is what it is.  Don#t worry about it.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Not at all. But posting bollocks like that with no excuses is.


Being drunk is not a valid excuse however.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 9, 2019)

I've only been in one Brewdog pub and that was in Brizzol.

It had young funky hip staff waxing lyrical about hops and grains, polished concrete tabletops and funky stools IIRC and it had a nice big window for people watching. I had two pints of a very nice strong stout which left me skint but merry. The wife had some sort of dead horse brew. We stole a couple of swanky magazines to offset the overpriced ale and then headed into the rest of Brizzol which to be fair was like a further extension of our Brewdog experience. We didn't steal anything else though


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Are they worse than the massive multinationals then?
> 
> And to say their beer is filth and their pubs are fucking horrid barns full of faux-authenticity and braying arseholes.  Well, it's all down to personal taste isn't it?
> 
> ...



I've never been in a brewdog pub. I drank one of their beers once, by mistake. But everything about the company screams shit products aimed at arseholes and my nose for such things is never wrong.


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've never been in a brewdog pub.


we can tell.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 9, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> the rest of Brizzol which to be fair was like a further extension of our Brewdog experience.


This of course requires further discussion.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've never been in a brewdog pub. I drank one of their beers once, by mistake. But everything about the company screams shit products aimed at arseholes and my nose for such things is never wrong.


The one in Brixton has huge windows, distressed wood and 'industrial' piping along with some faux edgy biker gang style neon. It looks totally unappealing. Who the fuck would want to drink in a corporate shithole like that when you've pubs like the Effra Hall Tavern around the corner?


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 9, 2019)

teuchter said:


> This of course requires further discussion.


Hip, trendy and expensive with lots of polished concrete. Quite lovely really, rounded it off with a nice gig in a lovely Theatre.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 9, 2019)

I just don't like them for all the punk stuff, seems knobby. I will actually drink their beers though, would rather have a bottle of punk ipa than a can of shit lager. I buy the fake dickhead cans from lidl though which is probably verboten to beer freaks


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

editor said:


> Who the fuck would want to drink in a corporate shithole like that when you've pubs like the Effra Hall Tavern around the corner?



People who are into a slightly different kind of wanky to the Effra Hall Tavern, I would guess.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 9, 2019)

My other half rated nanny state when pregnant tbf


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> People who are into a slightly different kind of wanky to the Effra Hall Tavern, I would guess.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> People who are into a slightly different kind of wanky to the Effra Hall Tavern, I would guess.


What's wanky about the Effra Hall Tavern?


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 9, 2019)

editor said:


> *Who the fuck would want to drink in a corporate shithole like that *w



We did. It was raining and we'd just walked out of the hotel and needed somewhere to get our bearings. That's were we robbed the magazines from, under that edgy biker style neon


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

I think the Seven Dials one looks pretty good inside, tbf.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

editor said:


> The one in Brixton has huge windows, distressed wood and 'industrial' piping along with some faux edgy biker gang style neon. It looks totally unappealing. Who the fuck would want to drink in a corporate shithole like that when you've pubs like the Effra Hall Tavern around the corner?



Quite so, a glance inside one from outside is more than enough to set off all my 'nope' alarm bells. And that beer I tasted, 'punk' 'IPA' was not the work of people who care about making good beer, or even people who know what beer is. It was the work of enemies of humanity.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

editor said:


> What's wanky about the Effra Hall Tavern?



It's the faux-authentic to the Brewdog bar's authentic-faux.
I'd imagine if they're not far apart,  a lot of people might pop to one, then the other.

Get a rounded flavour of the 'London hipster pub' experience.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Quite so, a glance inside one from outside is more than enough to set off all my 'nope' alarm bells. And that beer I tasted, 'punk' 'IPA' was not the work of people who care about making good beer, or even people who know what beer is. It was the work of enemies of humanity.



It's a bit too 'bitey' for my taste, but I gather that's what they were aiming for.
But it's true that its no Papa Jangles.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Quite so, a glance inside one from outside is more than enough to set off all my 'nope' alarm bells.


If they're repelling you and certain others, they're doing _something_ right!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> It's a bit too 'bitey' for my taste, but I gather that's what they were aiming for.
> But it's true that its no Papa Jangles.



It would have been less bitey had I smashed the bottle and eaten that instead.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> It's a bit too 'bitey' for my taste ...


Part of the current scourge of beer making in which massively over-hopped ales have become fashionable


----------



## xenon (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster

What's thrombo? 

I don't actually give a shit about the story here, just wondered why this thread kept getting bumped. Yawnsome.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> It's the faux-authentic to the Brewdog bar's authentic-faux.


Whatever you say, dear.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

editor said:


> Whatever you say, dear.



You tell it like it is, Preacher Man.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

xenon said:


> Spymaster
> 
> What's thrombo?


Freaking out apparently. It was a new one on me too but I like it.

Also described as:  "The process to describe intense freaking-out that can lead to a full-on thrombosis, especially if left un-mocked".


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Part of the current scourge of beer making in which massively over-hopped ales have become fashionable



I think Punk IPA was pretty instrumental in going way too far with the hops - hoppiness was on a bit of an upswing and I think they probably did Punk as a bit of an attention-seeking wheeze.  I doubt they expected it to do so well.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

Equity punks! Rock and roll! Fighting sexism and... oh, wait.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> I think Punk IPA was pretty instrumental in going way too far with the hops - hoppiness was on a bit of an upswing and I think they probably did Punk as a bit of an attention-seeking wheeze.  I doubt they expected it to do so well.


I don't know how much of a lead Brewdog played in it but it's been going on for quite a few years. If like me, you find over-hopped beer pretty much undrinkable, you now have to taste any unknown beer before committing to a pint because more than half of them are too sour. They used to be the exception rather than the rule.


----------



## xenon (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Freaking out apparently. It was a new one on me too but I like it.
> 
> Also described as:  "The process to describe intense freaking-out that can lead to a full-on thrombosis, especially if left un-mocked".



Cheers.

Don't know about this semi vegan burger thing,  BD are still twats for various reasons though, regardless.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

editor said:


> Equity punks! Rock and roll! Fighting sexism and... oh, wait.



Isn't that quite an old pic?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I don't know how much of a lead Brewdog played in it but it's been going on for quite a few years. If like me, you find over-hopped beer pretty much undrinkable, you now have to taste any unknown beer before committing to a pint because more then half of them are too sour. They used to be the exception rather than the rule.



Well, technically should be bitter rather than sour.
There are some sour beers out there, I usually can't stand them.
Hoppiness is more of a mood thing.  I think we're past 'peak hop' now, but I'm going to a massive beer festival on Friday so can verify for sure by the weekend.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Isn't that quite an old pic?


Is that your best attempt of a defence of this pathetic sexist drivel?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

editor said:


> Is that your best attempt of a defence of this pathetic sexist drivel?



I'm just wondering where it lies on the timeline relative to your "slap a Spice Girl" games.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I've never been in a brewdog pub. I drank one of their beers once, by mistake. But everything about the company screams shit products aimed at arseholes and my nose for such things is never wrong.



Think I can see squarely where the problem lies then.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> I'm just wondering where it lies on the timeline relative to your "slap a Spice Girl" games.


One barrel. Truly scraped.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Well, technically should be bitter rather than sour.
> There are some sour beers out there, I usually can't stand them.
> Hoppiness is more of a mood thing.  I think we're past 'peak hop' now, but I'm going to a massive beer festival on Friday so can verify for sure by the weekend.


Bitter and sour are two cheeks of the same arse when it comes to beer, afaic. Which Festival are you going to? I'm going to Beirfest at Billingsgate the Friday after this. Fancy it?


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

I thought we were at peak hop when I quit booze, and that was 6 years ago. Reports from the frontline suggest it's only got more and more hoppy since...


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Bitter and sour are two cheeks of the same arse when it comes to beer, afaic. Which Festival are you going to? I'm going to Beirfest at Billingsgate the Friday after this. Fancy it?



This one.  Festival is a lot better than the web design skills on display in the link.
Is usually up at the Castle but its being renovated right now.  Beirfest looks like a fun one, but that weekend is the big Oxjam weekend round my manor (they really go to town with it).


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> I thought we were at peak hop when I quit booze, and that was 6 years ago. Reports from the frontline suggest it's only got more and more hoppy since...



Wow - 6 years off the booze.  Good going.
I think we're just on the other side of "peak IPA" now, which is quite hoppy in general, but I'd say we're well past the extremist hop wars phase.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> I'm just wondering where it lies on the timeline relative to your "slap a Spice Girl" games.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> Reports from the frontline suggest it's only got more and more hoppy since...


Totally.

We have The Camden brewery here, one of the worst offenders in the trade, and quite a few pubs only stock their beers. It's hell I tell ya. Hell!


----------



## teuchter (Oct 9, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> Hip, trendy and expensive with lots of polished concrete. Quite lovely really, rounded it off with a nice gig in a lovely Theatre.


It sounds like Bristol is nearly as good as London.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Totally.
> 
> We have The Camden brewery here, one of the worst offenders in the trade, and quite a few pubs only stock their beers. It's hell I tell ya. Hell!



Yeah, we have a few pubs with their beers (tends to be the trendier ones) - very much on the hoppier side.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Think I can see squarely where the problem lies then.



Yeah, with people who think they're doing future generations a favour by eating meat with something that isn't meat on top.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

editor said:


> One barrel. Truly scraped.



Oh, is context suddenly important now?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Yeah, with people who think they're doing future generations a favour by eating meat with something that isn't meat on top.



Those future generations are a right load of whiny cunts tbf.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> People who are into a slightly different kind of wanky to the Effra Hall Tavern, I would guess.


That's my favourite pub in Brixton. Mainly its frequented by authentic people like me. So you can't say it's wanky.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Those future generations are a right load of whiny cunts tbf.



And what have unborn children done for me lately eh?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Mainly its frequented by authentic people like me. So you can't say it's wanky.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

teuchter said:


> That's my favourite pub in Brixton. Mainly its frequented by authentic people like me. So you can't say it's wanky.



I don't even know if this is meant as a joke and that only makes it funnier.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> And what have unborn children done for me lately eh?



Well, I personally wouldn't have been caught dead running round the aether of infinite future probabilities making shrill demands of 15th Century peasants.  I may not have existed, but I had *some* dignity.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> I don't even know if this is meant as a joke and that only makes it funnier.


It's a simple statement of fact, and anyone who's lived in brixton as long as I have would recognise this.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Oh, is context suddenly important now?


Were talking about the obvious sexism in a recent Brewdog promotional photo in a thread about Brewdog.

Now tell me what possible relevance that has to an internet game which vanished off the web around two decades ago has to this discussion?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

editor said:


> Were talking about the obvious sexism in a recent Brewdog promotional photo in a thread about Brewdog.
> 
> Now tell me what possible relevance that has to an internet game which vanished off the web around two decades ago has to this discussion?



Oh, looked up the times now, have you?
Seemed like it wasn't relevant before.

So when *was* the Brewdog pic?  They look very fresh-faced but maybe they've just got the money for expensive moisturiser these days.


----------



## pesh (Oct 9, 2019)

whats wrong wiv being sexy?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

pesh said:


> whats wrong wiv being sexy?



Leads to unclean thoughts.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Oh, looked up the times now, have you?
> Seemed like it wasn't relevant before.
> 
> So when *was* the Brewdog pic?  They look very fresh-faced but maybe they've just got the money for expensive moisturiser these days.


Picture was taken in 2013. It's on page 1  of this thread. So, six years ago.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Picture was taken in 2013. It's on page 1  of this thread. So, six years ago.



Ta


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Ta


No worries.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Oh, looked up the times now, have you?
> Seemed like it wasn't relevant before.


I'm not sure what timings have to do with anything.

The 'Punch' section on these boards still say this about Gail Porter:





> Here's the a_wful slapper who gets her tits out_ for any magazine that asks, throws herself at any passing pop star and then moans when she feels she's 'not being taken seriously as a woman'*.*


This about Anne Widdecombe: 





> Here's the _mad witch_ who declared a 'zero tolerance' policy on drugs, announcing that anyone caught with cannabis - no matter how small the amount - should be fined £100.
> 
> We reckon a firm slap can surely only help matters for the  still-unflowered Widders, but be careful...there's something very spooky about this lady...


Anne Robinson: 





> We don't care if she tries to act all tough on her shite 'Weakest Link' TV show, but when this _wrinkled old hag_ starts slagging off the Welsh - our beloved countrymen - there's only one thing to say to her...



I really don't think there are any lessons to take on sexism from anyone whose site carries this kind of revolting, misogynistic, trash.

Click on their names.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I'm not sure what timings have to do with anything.
> 
> The 'Punch' section on these boards still say this about Gail Porter:
> This about Anne Widdecombe:
> ...


Says the hypocrite who was only to happy to be sexist to me a few days back.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Says the hypocrite who was only to happy to be sexist to me a few days back.


luckily Spymaster doesn't represent the site, he's only a poster here, whereas what's on the punch games bit he links to represents all of us.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Says the hypocrite who was only to happy to be sexist to me a few days back.


Yeah, but I don't care and make no pretence of being right-on and PC, love.

But you go right ahead and keep brown-nosing in defence of "witch", "slapper" and "wrinkled hag"! 

I also don't recall being sexist towards you (though don't care if I was because by your standards it's meaningless). Are you sure you're not imagining things again?


----------



## teuchter (Oct 9, 2019)

I'm happy to represent urban75 for political correctness (but nothing else) if no-one else is up to the task.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 9, 2019)

teuchter said:


> I'm happy to represent urban75 for political correctness (but nothing else) if no-one else is up to the task.


should urban75 ever through some misfortune be summoned to court i am sure editor would love to see you stand in the dock rather than him.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Yeah, but I don't care and make no pretence of being right-on and PC, love.
> 
> But you go right ahead and keep brown-nosing in defence of "witch", "slapper" and "wrinkled hag"!
> 
> I also don't recall being sexist towards you (though don't care if I was because by your standards it's meaningless). Are you sure you're not imagining things again?


I wasn't defending such language or behaviour, far from it, but it's more than a bit rich of you to say others shouldn't be sexist and then claim it's OK for you to do so.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I wasn't defending such language or behaviour, far from it, but it's more than a bit rich of you to say others shouldn't be sexist and then claim it's OK for you to do so.


I made no such claim. You're having even bigger comprehension issues than usual today aren't you? The hypocrisy is in your idol decrying some pretty tame _sexist_ advertising, with your tongue planted firmly in his rectum, whilst being well known for "slap a Spice Girl" and owning a site which is STILL referring to women as "witches", "slappers", and "hags".

My sexism, or lack thereoff, is a totally different issue. So get stuffed, you old bat.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

Funny how this thread about the multi-million pound multinational Brewdog has turned into a discussion about long-forgotten content on the other, distinctly separate part of this site, dating from around 1996, isn't it?

Sure makes you wonder why some people would be searching and dredging up completely unrelated and irrelevant words from nearly a quarter of a century ago - even more so when it's already been clearly stated that the aforementioned, long forgotten material is going to be removed.

It's almost like they have no actual defence for Brewdog's recent sexist advertising so have to embark on long winded attempts at character assassination and ad hominems.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

_Two_ warning points for "personal attacks"? 

I get the one for having a pop at EG above. That was fully planned and expected; but for post #1319? That's just telling the truth.

At least more people will read it now.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I made no such claim. You're having even bigger comprehension issues than usual today aren't you? The hypocrisy is in your idol decrying some pretty tame sexist advertising, with your tongue planted firmly in his rectum, whilst being well known for "slap a Spice Girl" and owning a site which is STILL referring to women as "witches", "slappers", and "hags".
> 
> My sexism, or lack thereoff, is a totally different issue. So get stuffed, you old bat.


Your insults need a lot of work.


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

I'm not sure how reasonable it is to trawl up stuff from a quarter of a century ago to score points today. We've all said stuff in the past that looks a bit crass and horrible today - that doesn't mean we can't be critical of things that look crass and horrible to us now.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Your insults need a lot of work.


They're not ALL mine. When you're posting I get them PMd and texted to me from your other fans.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> I'm not sure how reasonable it is to trawl up stuff from a quarter of a century ago to score points today. We've all said stuff in the past that looks a bit crass and horrible today - that doesn't mean we can't be critical of things that look crass and horrible to us now.


Aye. When it's sexist advertising from 6 years ago it's fair game and current. When it's misogynistic rants against women_ that are still on the site RIGHT NOW, _it's old hat and to be ignored!


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> I'm not sure how reasonable it is to trawl up stuff from a quarter of a century ago to score points today. We've all said stuff in the past that looks a bit crass and horrible today - that doesn't mean we can't be critical of things that look crass and horrible to us now.


For sure - and that criticism has already taken place in another thread recently, and I've already stated that'll I'll remove all of the content when I get time.

And yes it is embarrassing that I used those words but - crucially -  at the time no one on this board had anything negative to say about it. Times change and we learn and move on.

But to dredge this up again in a thread about a multi-million brewing business is simply out of order. It's a cheap personal attack.


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Aye. When it's sexist advertising from 6 years ago it's fair game and current. When it's misogynistic rants against women_ that are still on the site RIGHT NOW, _it's old hat and to be ignored!


Should Ed go back through all the things he's ever written on this site and check to make sure he's not said anything embarrassing, or should he wait for you to alert him for each instance?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> They're not ALL mine. When you're posting I get them PMd and texted to me from your other fans.


Ah, the numerous PMs of support line.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> Should Ed go back through all the things he's ever written on this site and check to make sure he's not said anything embarrassing, or should he wait for you to alert him for each instance?


I'm afraid I'm not allowed to mention or refer to a certain person any more. I've been given 2 warnings in quick succession and another will result in a ban. It's a trap that I've fallen into before so I decline to answer the question on the grounds that it may incriminate me (or similar).


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> Should Ed go back through all the things he's ever written on this site and check to make sure he's not said anything embarrassing, or should he wait for you to alert him for each instance?



Christ! Who expects him to do that? 

He can't have *that* many years left!


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Ah, the numerous PMs of support line.


 Dear oh dear!


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Dear oh dear!


If it wasn't for the length of time you've been on this site, I'd think you were a teenage boy the way you're behaving on this thread.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> If it wasn't for the length of time you've been on this site, I'd think you were a teenage boy the way you're behaving on this thread.


Bollocks!

It's not just this one.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

*This thread is about Brewdog. *I understand that it might be in some people's interests to continue to disrupt and deflect any criticism of the company by dredging up irrelevant material about me from decades ago, but let me make it clear:  anyone continuing this off topic discussion can expect a warning and a ban if they continue, in line with the site rules.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

Thread is now third Google result when searching "Brixton Brewdog hybrid burger".
Someone on this thread deserves full marks for search engine optimisation.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 9, 2019)

Let's get back to Brewdog and their new 100% vegan pub.

Not many vegan pubs out there (or am I wrong?) - so they seem to be blazing a bit of a trail there.

Thoughts?


----------



## teuchter (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Thoughts?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Thoughts?



They are bad and they should feel bad.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Let's get back to Brewdog and their new 100% vegan pub.
> 
> Not many vegan pubs out there (or am I wrong?) - so they seem to be blazing a bit of a trail there.
> 
> Thoughts?



There's quite a few vege pubs and resteraunts around but soley vegan?  Probably not many pubs at all.

Big companies can do this sort of thing because they can take the hit of it failing plus they can still work with the exposure it brings.  Sainsburys have recently tried a card only only (fail) and Wetherspoons had a few smoke free pubs long before the ban came in (success).


----------



## Shirl (Oct 9, 2019)

I like Brewdog af beers, not only Nanny State but they do an af Punk now as well. There are plenty more af beers around these days but Brewdog were a big help when I decided to give up alcohol two years ago. 

This thread reminds me of staying in a cheap hotel in Blackpool about 10 years ago and being assured they did a veggie breakfast. The next morning when we were presented with a full english I reminded them that 3 of us had asked for veggie breakfast.The owner/cook/waiter said 'yes love, the veggie folk just leave the bacon and sausage.'  

Lots of arguing on here mind


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Thread is now third Google result when searching "Brixton Brewdog hybrid burger".
> Someone on this thread deserves full marks for search engine optimisation.


And I bet there's literally millions of people inputting those_ exact search terms_ right now.

Of course, if you type in 'brewdog hybrid burger' this site is nowhere to be seen.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Have any sites been mentioned for the new 100% vegan pub yet?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

editor said:


> And I bet there's literally millions of people inputting those_ exact search terms_ right now.
> 
> Of course, if you type in 'brewdog hybrid burger' this site is nowhere to be seen.



Yeah, there's probably some connection between this site and Brixton which is escaping everyone here.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Big companies can do this sort of thing because they can take the hit of it failing plus they can still work with the exposure it brings.


Indeed. It takes far more commitment and risk if you're an independent pub/restaurant. London's first vegan only pub launched over a year and a half ago.


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Sainsburys have recently tried a card only only (fail)


I know a few places - indie coffee shops for the most part - that don't take cash. I'd say in that case it's small ventures serving a very specific clientelle that can experiment. I expect to see it a lot more over the next few years though.


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

(in fact in general I'd say innovation in the field is driven by small operators who get copied by bigger corporations. who often get it wrong)


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> I know a few places - indie coffee shops for the most part - that don't take cash. I'd say in that case it's small ventures serving a very specific clientelle that can experiment. I expect to see it a lot more over the next few years though.



We have a couple of small places in the city's 'trendy quarter' that don't take cash.
Said on the door of one that I went into (very small sign), which I missed.

Left a tip in coins and won't be going back.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> I know a few places - indie coffee shops for the most part - that don't take cash. I'd say in that case it's small ventures serving a very specific clientelle that can experiment. I expect to see it a lot more over the next few years though.



Oh for sure.  There are a few little places doing it, I've noticed street food vendors increasingly doing it.  Sainsburys was a 1st in a bigger store of its kind doing it as far as I know and I was using it as an example of how bigger companies can afford to try things and fail (which it did).


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> We have a couple of small places in the city's 'trendy quarter' that don't take cash.
> Said on the door of one that I went into (very small sign), which I missed.
> 
> Left a tip in coins and won't be going back.


why?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> why?



Srsly?

edit:  not meaning to be a dick but not too long ago we used to have interesting discussions about whether we wanted all of our actions, whereabouts and doings to be traceable by the authorities


----------



## discobastard (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Have any sites been mentioned for the new 100% vegan pub yet?



I just googled it for you and it says Dalston.  This month.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 9, 2019)

I wonder how much of their beer is vegan?  Doesn't a lot of booze have weird fish liver in it or something?


----------



## discobastard (Oct 9, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> I wonder how much of their beer is vegan?  Doesn't a lot of booze have weird fish liver in it or something?



Most of them.  Think I read 9X% last night. 

BREWED FOR VEGANS


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> I just googled it for you and it says Dalston.  This month.



Proper trendyland.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> I wonder how much of their beer is vegan?  Doesn't a lot of booze have weird fish liver in it or something?


Yes, isinglas is used as a filter and comes from fish iirc.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> I wonder how much of their beer is vegan?  Doesn't a lot of booze have weird fish liver in it or something?


Most modern/new breweries reject the use of isinglass, which is a weird product derived from dried fish bladders. I imagine most if not all of their range is vegan, as it should be.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> I just googled it for you and it says Dalston.  This month.


Thank you, hipster central then. Not surprising really.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Yes, isinglas is used as a filter and comes from fish iirc.



It's used to make beer go clearer faster.  It's a mixture of the swim bladders from certain fish, and sodium metabisulphate.
You can get either 'unfined' (ie. cloudy) beer or beer fined by other means if you want to keep it vegan.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Most of them.  Think I read 9X% last night.
> 
> BREWED FOR VEGANS



That's good.  I always wondered how essential that fish stuff was.  Maybe its more of a wine thing.


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Thank you, hipster central then. Not surprising really.


is veganism a hipster thing now?


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> is veganism a hipter thing now?



Everything is hipster now.

Except U75 obvs


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> That's good.  I always wondered how essential that fish stuff was.  Maybe its more of a wine thing.



Unless you're fussy about your beer being clear, I'd say it's pretty irrelevant.
People associate clarity with cleanliness.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> is veganism a hipster thing now?



Only insomuch as vinyl is.

edit:  by which I mean, it's associated with a particular subculture, but that's very different to saying it is quintessential to a particular subculture


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

what particular subcultures are vinyl and veganism associated with?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> what particular subcultures are vinyl and veganism associated with?



Google can help you here.  Keywords:  vinyl AND vegan

<edit: could lead to some unexpected kinky places depending how far down the rabbit hole you go>


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Let's get back to Brewdog and their new 100% vegan pub.
> 
> Not many vegan pubs out there (or am I wrong?) - so they seem to be blazing a bit of a trail there.
> 
> Thoughts?


Well firstly we need to dispel this silly notion that they're trying to convert people to veganism or anything else. They're not. Like most companies they're seeking to do one of two things; make money or improve their image. They're tapping into the vegan thing in the knowledge that they're big enough for it to lose money for a period but support it with profits from elsewhere, or even for it to fail completely. With any marketing program, what appeals to X people will annoy group Y, etc, as has been clearly demonstrated here, so firms are extremely careful to identify their target markets. Brewdog have done that very successfully. There will obviously be vegans working there, perhaps even on the board or as investors but the primary motivation is to make money, like any business big or small.

So, as a genuine attempt to get people to eat less meat or become vegan it's pretty insignificant. It will probably have the side-effect that it benefits some of those people and raises awareness more generally but that's not their main driver. However, as a marketing campaign which will raise their brand awareness and get more people to like them, it's excellent.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> what particular subcultures are vinyl and veganism associated with?


First-wave Brixton gentrifiers.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 9, 2019)

teuchter said:


> First-wave Brixton gentrifiers.


The term you're reaching for is _pioneer gentrifiers._


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> There will obviously be vegans working there, perhaps even on the board or as investors, but the primary motivation is to make money, like any business big or small.



That's the weird and slightly depressing thing about trying to actually do anything.  Everything has to be filtered through the needing to make money thing, especially if investors are involved.  Your motivation might be all about having a good time working with your mates and making some really great quality beer* , but once you are a business it all either becomes mostly money, or everyone assumes it must be.

* - I am thinking of a small local brewer by the way, not Brewdog, when I say this


----------



## alex_ (Oct 9, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> I wonder how much of their beer is vegan?  Doesn't a lot of booze have weird fish liver in it or something?



most expensive craft beer is vegan aka unfined


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

alex_ said:


> most expensive craft beer is vegan aka unfined



According to bumph from beer festival I'm going to on Friday, unfined beers are on the up and up.
Fining beers without the fish bits is either a matter of using certain chemicals which aren't ideal for various reasons, or expensively storing the beer for a long time until it clears naturally.  Sometimes a bit of a combination of both.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> is veganism a hipster thing now?


No, Dalston is.


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> No, Dalston is.


Why is a vegan pub opening there not surprising then?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

No one knows what it's like to be the bad man
To be the sad man behind blue eyes
And no one knows what it's like to be hated
To be fated to telling only lies


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Have any sites been mentioned for the new 100% vegan pub yet?


I reckon it'll be brighton or bristol. Just a hunch.

Edit: ah close (not geographically)



discobastard said:


> I just googled it for you and it says Dalston.  This month.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

The Queen's Head in Stockwell/Brixton is also 100% vegan, btw.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> No one knows what it's like to be the bad man
> To be the sad man behind blue eyes
> And no one knows what it's like to be hated
> To be fated to telling only lies


What are you on about? Or are you just continuing your campaign of trying to disrupt this thread?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 9, 2019)

editor said:


> What are you on about? Or are you just continuing your campaign of trying to disrupt this thread?



Best crack down on this kind of dissent, innit, Preacher Man.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

8ball said:


> Best crack down on this kind of dissent, innit, Preacher Man.


OK, take a week off from this thread.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I reckon it'll be brighton or bristol. Just a hunch.


Wanna bet?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 9, 2019)

I'll just leave this here


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I'll just leave this here



I was wrong. They clearly ARE targeting Urban75 after all.

We have dozens of Bitcoin investors here!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> I was wrong. They clearly ARE targeting Urban75 after all.
> 
> We have dozens of Bitcoin investors here!


If it's to buy drugs then fair enough but there are no weirder people than the true believers


----------



## Callie (Oct 9, 2019)

Milk stout is problematic when you're trying to be vegan and possibly other beers with lactose (milk sugar) unless you can source lactose from non milky origins. It's probably possible but I'm not sure 

Hoppy beers are also still a big thing in craft beer, that hasn't really died down or gone away imo obviously not to everyones taste.

Would be interested to know what type of beer SpookyFrank rates? More traditional real ales I am guessing?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 9, 2019)

Callie said:


> Would be interested to know what type of beer SpookyFrank rates? More traditional real ales I am guessing?



Darkish ales mostly, but I don't object to drinking lager. But if it's lager it should be called 'lager' not 'American style IPA' or something else it's patently not. Why anyone wants to copy the brewing style of a land where they invented Coors Light is anyone's guess.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

SpookyFrank said:


> Darkish ales mostly, but I don't object to drinking lager. But if it's lager it should be called 'lager' not 'American style IPA' or something else it's patently not. Why anyone wants to copy the brewing style of a land where they invented Coors Light is anyone's guess.


American IPAs are ovbiously not lagers but the yanks have been making IPAs for a very long time. Some of them are very good.


----------



## T & P (Oct 9, 2019)

This thread’s fucking bonkers. Thank you all for brightening up a dull day


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2019)

killer b said:


> Why is a vegan pub opening there not surprising then?


Because Dalston is marketed as a place for lots of new restaurants especially those doing things differently. It's also marketed as a cool place to live.


----------



## editor (Oct 9, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> Because Dalston is marketed as a place for lots of new restaurants especially those doing things differently. It's also marketed as a cool place to live.


And whatever on-trend stuff happens in Dalston/thereabouts inevitably migrates to Brixton in some form or another.


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

Is Dalston still hip? Haven't the hipsters mostly migrated to Peckham now?


----------



## Callie (Oct 9, 2019)

Croydon is where it at.


----------



## Treacle Toes (Oct 9, 2019)

They are spreading. What's with this nonsense idea there are only enough to inhabit/takeover one area?


----------



## killer b (Oct 9, 2019)

I don't think 'they' do inhabit only one area, but the nature of gentrification is that even 'they' get priced out eventually. Dalston has been the designated hipster area for at least a decade, so I'd have thought by now the proper hipsters are probably elsewhere, where the rents are cheaper (for now). But maybe that's not happened, which is why I asked a question.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 9, 2019)

William of Walworth said:
			
		

> I'm vegetarian (and for ever  -- I was brought up as) and I hardly ever eat veggie or vegan burgers -- I simply can't be doing with imitation meat ....
> 
> Just saying like





SpookyFrank said:


> Well if you've never had to break an existing attachment to meaty foods, *you are probably not in a great position to tell others how they should do it.*
> 
> HTH



Which I was not _at all_ doing in the post from me that you quoted??


----------



## xenon (Oct 9, 2019)

T & P said:


> This thread’s fucking bonkers. Thank you all for brightening up a dull day



Nah, it’s shit. Dismal, dreary and depressing.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 9, 2019)

Callie said:


> Croydon is where it at.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 9, 2019)

What *is* a hipster exactly?  What are we railing against?

ETA: am not suggesting railing shouldn't happen.  But it's a term that get kicked around a lot.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 9, 2019)

Good, non-Brewdog-specific discussion about vegan-friendly beers in recent posts  

At our beer festival, we make a point of offering a fair proportion of either unfined, or otherwise-fined, beers ... we found, when researching choices, that there's more breweries than you think that offer perfectly good and tasty vegan beers. Even pretty damned traditional breweries, surprisingly ...


----------



## discobastard (Oct 9, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> American IPAs are ovbiously not lagers but the yanks have been making IPAs for a very long time. Some of them are very good.



This is one of the best things I ever tasted:
Resin – Sixpoint Brewery


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> What *is* a hipster exactly?


It's a word designed to expose people. Anyone using it is almost certainly a dickhead.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 9, 2019)

As for veggie/vegan-friendly pubs, that don't bother even to pretend to be utterly vegan, you could do worse than The Fat Cat in Sheffield   

Which has been amazing as fuck for beer and food**, and for *years* before Brewdog were even imagined  

** Haven't been there for a good while though, so usual health and reliabilty caveats apply  .. apologies if I'm right out of date ...


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> This is one of the best things I ever tasted:
> Resin – Sixpoint Brewery


I'd give it a go but I almost always regret drinking beer of that strength the day after.


----------



## tommers (Oct 9, 2019)

Lidl have opened up round the corner from us. 330ml cans of various types of pale ale for 99p each. Perfectly decent.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 9, 2019)

discobastard said:


> This is one of the best things I ever tasted:
> Resin – Sixpoint Brewery


I want one of these


----------



## Gramsci (Oct 9, 2019)

On vegan beers. My local brewery run by a nice couple in a railway arch in Loughborough Junction beers are Vegan. They also run a taproom from the arch on weekends. Which is popular. 

Clarkshaws - Home

BrewDog in Brixton I never go into.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 9, 2019)

tommers said:


> Lidl have opened up round the corner from us. 330ml cans of various types of pale ale for 99p each. Perfectly decent.


That's what I drink, bitter iron and twisted knot (overhopped american ipa) and some others I forget name of. All pretty much as good as branded dickhead cans to my unsophisticated palate


----------



## xenon (Oct 9, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> That's what I drink, bitter iron and twisted knot (overhopped american ipa) and some others I forget name of. All pretty much as good as branded dickhead cans to my unsophisticated palate



 These just sound like branded dickhead nonsense that you bought from the supermarket though, TBH. 
 Beer snobbery fucking hell. Where do we start.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 9, 2019)

xenon said:


> These just sound like branded dickhead nonsense that you bought from the supermarket though, TBH.
> Dear snobbery fucking hell. Where do we start.


Well yeah they're meant to be like branded dickhead nonsense, just cheaper. That's what lidl and aldi do, it's kind of the point


----------



## xenon (Oct 9, 2019)

I only drink Fosters and Stella. Their authenticity


----------



## xenon (Oct 9, 2019)

There are loads of good beers, loads of marketing wank, but brew dog are still twats.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 9, 2019)

xenon said:


> I only drink Fosters and Stella. Their authenticity


I'd like to be able to reject all the bollocks around beer these days and just drink shit lager but the problem is then you're left drinking shit lager


----------



## T & P (Oct 9, 2019)

xenon said:


> Nah, it’s shit. Dismal, dreary and depressing.


Yet the very essence of U75's boards whichever side of the argument one might take.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 10, 2019)

teuchter said:


> It sounds like Bristol is nearly as good as London.


All these places are lovely. Even Brewdog can be lovely when it's raining and you need a polished concrete table to get your wallpaper citeh guide out so you can plan your day snooping and mooching around the delights that your chosen destination has to offer. People moan about starfucks, they moan about Groggs, they moan about Macdeaths but when you just need some free wifi and a quick pint or a muffin and a coffee to plan your excursion to some really trendy bohemian ancient drinking hole that someone has recommended on urban, they serve as that port in your storm that you need so you can get your packamack out and dry off your chuckies before you wander round aimlessly trying to find that special place that you eventually discover is only special to them because they had a nice muffin and a nice pint or coffee in there 20 years ago.

It's the company you keep that makes somewhere special. Not it's CEO and their business ethics. If it's got a nice window to people watch through and a nice clean polished concrete table to spread your map out on then it's better than a bus stop or a doorway.


----------



## andysays (Oct 10, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> All these places are lovely. Even Brewdog can be lovely when it's raining and you need a polished concrete table to get your wallpaper citeh guide out so you can plan your day snooping and mooching around the delights that your chosen destination has to offer. People moan about starfucks, they moan about Groggs, they moan about Macdeaths but when you just need some free wifi and a quick pint or a muffin and a coffee to plan your excursion to some really trendy bohemian ancient drinking hole that someone has recommended on urban they serve as that port in your storm that you need so you can get your packamack out and dry off your chuckies before you wander round aimlessly trying to find that special place that you eventually discover is only special to them because they had a nice muffin and a nice pint or coffee in 20 years ago.
> 
> It's the company you keep that makes somewhere special. Not it's CEO and their business ethics. If it's got a nice window to people watch through and a nice clean polished concrete table to spread your map out on then it's better than a bus stop or a doorway.



Post reported


----------



## Callie (Oct 10, 2019)

teuchter said:


> View attachment 186490


No. The Leslie Arms is not for Brewdog! It's too suburban. They dinnae do suburban.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 10, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> That's what I drink, bitter iron and twisted knot (overhopped american ipa) and some others I forget name of. All pretty much as good as branded dickhead cans to my unsophisticated palate



The Aldi Redwell is very good if you like that style of beer. I'd heard it compared to Punk IPA, but it really isnt. In fact what it's very close to is Thornbridge's Jaipur.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 10, 2019)

I'm hoping Aldi start doing a version of Imperial Stouts and Belgium beers. But i suspect I'll be waiting a long time.


----------



## tommers (Oct 10, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> All these places are lovely. Even Brewdog can be lovely when it's raining and you need a polished concrete table to get your wallpaper citeh guide out so you can plan your day snooping and mooching around the delights that your chosen destination has to offer. People moan about starfucks, they moan about Groggs, they moan about Macdeaths but when you just need some free wifi and a quick pint or a muffin and a coffee to plan your excursion to some really trendy bohemian ancient drinking hole that someone has recommended on urban they serve as that port in your storm that you need so you can get your packamack out and dry off your chuckies before you wander round aimlessly trying to find that special place that you eventually discover is only special to them because they had a nice muffin and a nice pint or coffee in 20 years ago.
> 
> It's the company you keep that makes somewhere special. Not it's CEO and their business ethics. If it's got a nice window to people watch through and a nice clean polished concrete table to spread your map out on then it's better than a bus stop or a doorway.


I love you frieda.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 10, 2019)

UnderAnOpenSky said:


> The Aldi Redwell is very good if you like that style of beer. I'd heard it compared to Punk IPA, but it really isnt. In fact what it's very close to is Thornbridge's Jaipur.


Will try that. Aldi my mine has increased its beer range lately, including some 'brand' cans for just over a quid. Haven't tried most of them yet


----------



## tommers (Oct 10, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Will try that. Aldi my mine has increased its beer range lately, including some 'brand' cans for just over a quid. Haven't tried most of them yet


We've got two craft beer shops near us. Beaverton for £2.80 for 330ml. I sometimes buy stuff from them cos they are local businesses but it's hard to justify paying almost three times the price for the same thing (kind of, tastes pretty similar to me).


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 10, 2019)

tommers said:


> We've got two craft beer shops near us. Beaverton for £2.80 for 330ml. I sometimes buy stuff from them cos they are local businesses but it's hard to justify paying almost three times the price for the same thing (kind of, tastes pretty similar to me).



Yeah, there's a wine shop not far from me with an awesome selection of beers. Can't afford to go their often, but if I do I try to get ones that are very different to what I can find in supermarkets, hence strong stouts and stuff rather then just another IPA.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 11, 2019)

It's dismal and grim outside. Can we get this thread fired up again, to cheer things up a bit, please?

Maybe some more people would like to emphasise how they shop at Lidl or Aldi in an attempt to demonstrate their proletarian authenticity, and immunity to marketing nonsense.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 11, 2019)

Pfftt.  Lidl and Aldi have been colonised by the chattering classes.  I shop at Iceland.


----------



## pesh (Oct 11, 2019)

pfft. do most of my shopping at Morleys.


----------



## YouSir (Oct 11, 2019)

Aren't we all la de da. 

I do all of my shopping with a bloke who has a lock up under the arches. You can choose your own pigeon and he'll batter it to death for you with a rolled up copy of last months Big Issue before burning the feathers off with his Bic. Plus he does his own craft beer, if a can of Spesh with a dash of lighter fluid counts.


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 11, 2019)

Brew your own. It's easy and works out less than 50p a pint even for something heavily hopped; a standard stout or pale ale is closer to 30p a pint. Lager is trickier because of the need for sustained low temps, but you can get pretty close.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 11, 2019)

Yeah shopping at lidl and aldi is quite middle class these days, asdas is the most authentic place to shop fyi tuchter


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 11, 2019)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Brew your own. It's easy and works out less than 50p a pint even for something heavily hopped; a standard stout or pale ale is closer to 30p a pint. Lager is trickier because of the need for sustained low temps, but you can get pretty close.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice



There's a major, and still active, Urban thread on home brewing   -- it's on the suburban75 forum ....

I dip into that occasionally out of idle half-interest, but home brewing all seems like *too much bloody hard work*, especially when (even if you're skint), there's a Wetherspoons Beer Festival on at the moment 

Personally, and despite the expense, I prefer pub-drinking to home-drinking anyway. Obviously when I say "pub", I completely exclude Brewdog-style "bars"


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 11, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Yeah shopping at lidl and aldi is quite middle class these days, asdas is the most authentic place to shop fyi tuchter



I prefer the beer choice at Aldis, but we don't have one near us 
Lidls -- not too bad. 
Asda has some serious bargains in bottled strong beers and stouts ...


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Oct 11, 2019)

William of Walworth said:


> There's a major, and still active, Urban thread on home brewing   -- it's on the suburban75 forum ....
> 
> I dip into that occasionally out of idle half-interest, but home brewing all seems like *too much bloody hard work*, especially when (even if you're skint), there's a Wetherspoons Beer Festival on at the moment
> 
> Personally, and despite the expense, I prefer pub-drinking to home-drinking anyway. Obviously when I say "pub", I completely exclude Brewdog-style "bars"



I really like brewing my own beer (both process and product), but I also love a pint or two (or more) in a decent pub. Doing the former gives me more cash for the latter.

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## teuchter (Oct 11, 2019)

William of Walworth said:


> I prefer the beer choice at Aldis, but we don't have one near us
> Lidls -- not too bad.
> Asda has some serious bargains in bottled strong beers and stouts ...


Why do Aldi and Lidl get an unnecessary 's' on the end but not Asda?


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 11, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Why do Aldi and Lidl get an unnecessary 's' on the end but not Asda?



Because I made a supremely unimportant error?


----------



## alex_ (Oct 11, 2019)

pesh said:


> pfft. do most of my shopping at Morleys.



good chicken


----------



## editor (Oct 11, 2019)

Brewdog arrives in Coldharbour Lane. Brewdog decides to hog some pavement space for itself. Tree suddenly gets cut down without explanation. 

 

Even if they weren't directly responsible, their presence would have probably made the tree want to die.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 11, 2019)

(((tree)))


----------



## T & P (Oct 11, 2019)

William of Walworth said:


> There's a major, and still active, Urban thread on home brewing   -- it's on the suburban75 forum ....
> 
> I dip into that occasionally out of idle half-interest, but home brewing all seems like *too much bloody hard work*, especially when (even if you're skint), there's a Wetherspoons Beer Festival on at the moment
> 
> Personally, and despite the expense, I prefer pub-drinking to home-drinking anyway. Obviously when I say "pub", I completely exclude Brewdog-style "bars"


 I was given a home brewing kit and have had four goes. Two successful to a degree though the beer ended up or at least felt like of low-ish alcohol content. The other two failed.

I had put my failures down to insufficient sterilisation (even though I spent ages sanitising every last bit of kit) or air getting into the barrel but I have no way of proving it. And now that you mention lager being particularly vulnerable to temperature changes I wonder if that was it. But what the fuck am I supposed to do in the winter months? Turn off the radiators in a room for a whole 3-4 weeks? And then if it gets below certain temperature it’ll fuck the yeast up anyway. Perhaps I should do just ale if you say it’s less sensitive to to temperature changes.

I also found the instructions contradictory. Initial fermentation for my kit at least is supposed to happen in a sealed bucket to avoid contamination, yet they tell you to take regular or even daily gravity readings, for which I have no option but to open the bucket. It’s quite maddening tbh.


----------



## kenny g (Oct 11, 2019)

T & P said:


> I was given a home brewing kit and have had four goes. Two successful to a degree though the beer ended up or at least felt like of low-ish alcohol content. The other two failed.
> 
> I had put my failures down to insufficient sterilisation (even though I spent ages sanitising every last bit of kit) or air getting into the barrel but I have no way of proving it. And now that you mention lager being particularly vulnerable to temperature changes I wonder if that was it. But what the fuck am I supposed to do in the winter months? Turn off the radiators in a room for a whole 3-4 weeks? And then if it gets below certain temperature it’ll fuck the yeast up anyway. Perhaps I should do just ale if you say it’s less sensitive to to temperature changes.
> 
> I also found the instructions contradictory. Initial fermentation for my kit at least is supposed to happen in a sealed bucket to avoid contamination, yet they tell you to take regular or even daily gravity readings, for which I have no option but to open the bucket. It’s quite maddening tbh.



I used to love home brewing. You don't have to check the gravity that much at all. A bit like checking a sponge in the oven you will fuck it up by over monitoring. Just keep things clean, use good ingredients and play around. I used 20 litre water containers for the brewing and home made airlocks with plastic piping going into glasses of vodka to avoid contamination. Then bottled into 660ml beer bottles. Had a nice thing going with around 20 x 660ml a week being produced. Needless to say ended up with a ban from my wife as she got fed up with me being pissed at odd times of the day during the racking process and to sample the wares. Definitely a worth while activity if you have time and self control.


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 12, 2019)

Wetherspoons, with their current beer festival, and three Swansea area pubs to drink in, satisfied all my hugely corporate-dependant  but *cheap* beer needs tonight!   

On limited money too -- I'm skint(ish). 

And I managed to ignore Tim Martin's utterly shite politics for *CHEAP* (and genuinely quality fbf) *BEER*

No sterilising of own brew kit necessary today


----------



## William of Walworth (Oct 12, 2019)

Oh yes, there's a new Brewdog "bar" imminently opening in Wine Street, Swansea  

Will avoid at all times


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Oct 12, 2019)

T & P said:


> I was given a home brewing kit and have had four goes. Two successful to a degree though the beer ended up or at least felt like of low-ish alcohol content. The other two failed.
> 
> I had put my failures down to insufficient sterilisation (even though I spent ages sanitising every last bit of kit) or air getting into the barrel but I have no way of proving it. And now that you mention lager being particularly vulnerable to temperature changes I wonder if that was it. But what the fuck am I supposed to do in the winter months? Turn off the radiators in a room for a whole 3-4 weeks? And then if it gets below certain temperature it’ll fuck the yeast up anyway. Perhaps I should do just ale if you say it’s less sensitive to to temperature changes.
> 
> I also found the instructions contradictory. Initial fermentation for my kit at least is supposed to happen in a sealed bucket to avoid contamination, yet they tell you to take regular or even daily gravity readings, for which I have no option but to open the bucket. It’s quite maddening tbh.



Yeah I did a few batches. It certainly is a bit of work cleaning all the kit and bottles. And most of it tasted pretty shit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2019)

what is this shebu bollocks?


----------



## alex_ (Oct 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> what is this shebu bollocks?




Urban Dictionary: SheBu


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2019)

alex_ said:


> Urban Dictionary: SheBu


Ah, it's hipster for shepherd's bush


----------



## discobastard (Oct 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Ah, it's hipster for shepherd's bush



No, it's _short_ for Shepherd's Bush.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 24, 2019)

discobastard said:


> No, it's _short_ for Shepherd's Bush.


I predict that PiMo will dispute this.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2019)

discobastard said:


> No, it's _short_ for Shepherd's Bush.


lots of things are short for shepherd's bush. i suspect that this abomination is far more widely used among the bearded hipster denizens of west london than it is among other sections of the population.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2019)

teuchter said:


> I predict that PiMo will dispute this.


wrong again.


----------



## editor (Oct 24, 2019)

alex_ said:


> Urban Dictionary: SheBu


No good deed left unfilmed, unpromoted and unshared. I'd be curious to see how the cost of shipping over the bar staff on a backslapping jolly compared to the amount of money raised.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> lots of things are short for shepherd's bush. i suspect that this abomination is far more widely used among the bearded hipster denizens of west london than it is among other sections of the population.



So much bile for a population that nobody can really define.  Beards went out years ago btw.

The only other person I've heard using SheBu is a 64 year old mate of mine; he is beardless and lives in Gloucestershire.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> wrong again.


So you do not dispute the implication of DiBa's post, which is that it is "short for" rather than "hipster for". You are not going to claim that it is both.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2019)

discobastard said:


> So much bile for a population that nobody can really define.  Beards went out years ago btw.


i'm seeing a lot of unfashionable hipsters then


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2019)

teuchter said:


> So you do not dispute the implication of DiBa's post, which is that it is "short for" rather than "hipster for". You are not going to claim that it is both.


i don't see why i shouldn't


----------



## teuchter (Oct 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i don't see why i shouldn't


Well, you can choose between contradicting yourself, or proving my prediction correct. It's up to you.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Well, you can choose between contradicting yourself, or proving my prediction correct. It's up to you.


something can be both short for something and used by a specific population. but if you think about it it would make your head explode.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> something can be both short for something and used by a specific population. but if you think about it it would make your head explode.



WeNo gets used as an abbreviation for West Norwood.  It tends to be used primarily by middle class families and estate agents.  I don't think we've really got many hipsters round here.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> something can be both short for something and used by a specific population.


Ok. So you dispute the implication of DiBa's post. My prediction was correct. As predicted.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Ok. So you dispute the implication of DiBa's post. My prediction was correct. As predicted.


i haven't disputed that shebu could be short for shepherd's bush.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 24, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> i haven't disputed that shebu could be short for shepherd's bush.


Correct. So what?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 24, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Correct. So what?


the 'this' you thought i would dispute i haven't. i see you're trying to shuffle the goalposts about in your typical underhand way.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 24, 2019)

SheBu and WeNo is the wankiest thing i've ever heard


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 24, 2019)

IsODo


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 24, 2019)

ToHam could be Tottenham or Tower Hamlets, whole system is fucked


----------



## The Pale King (Oct 24, 2019)

Shebu? Get tae France 

I do say 'High and I' to mean Highbury and Islington tho


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 24, 2019)

The Pale King said:


> Shebu? Get tae France
> 
> I do say 'High and I' to mean Highbury and Islington tho


Should be Hi&Is really


----------



## discobastard (Oct 24, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> SheBu and WeNo is the wankiest thing i've ever heard



Ever?!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 24, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Ever?!


Ever. Worse than people who sign off emails with 'best'


----------



## editor (Oct 24, 2019)

I'd still like to know what happened to the tree outside their shitty pub in Brixton, mind.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 24, 2019)

editor said:


> I'd still like to know what happened to the tree outside their shitty pub in Brixton, mind.



Could pop in and ask.
Or get someone to prop the door open while you yell your questions through a loudhailer.

Extra points for phrases like "WHY DID YOU MURDER THIS INNOCENT TREE??!"


----------



## editor (Oct 24, 2019)

8ball said:


> Could pop in and ask.
> Or get someone to prop the door open while you yell your questions through a loudhailer.
> 
> Extra points for phrases like "WHY DID YOU MURDER THIS INNOCENT TREE??!"


I've no idea why you think I'd use such ridiculous language or think that the bar staff are likely to have any idea why the tree was removed without notice.  But if that's how you like to operate, get yourself down there. Maybe grab a rip off beer in the glow of the edgy neon while you're there?


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 24, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> Pfftt.  Lidl and Aldi have been colonised by the chattering classes.  I shop at Iceland.


Yeah me too along with the drug addicts and the pimps.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 24, 2019)

editor said:


> Even if they weren't directly responsible, their presence would have probably made the tree want to die.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 24, 2019)

editor said:


> I've no idea why you think I'd use such ridiculous language or think that the bar staff are likely to have any idea why the tree was removed without notice.  But if that's how you like to operate, get yourself down there. Maybe grab a rip off beer in the glow of the edgy neon while you're there?



The flaw in your thinking is that I wasn’t terribly interested about the tree.


----------



## editor (Oct 24, 2019)

8ball said:


> The flaw in your thinking is that I wasn’t terribly interested about the tree.


But clearly  interested enough to write out a post about it


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 24, 2019)

I think the roots of that tree may have been interfering with the services under the pavement.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 24, 2019)

editor said:


> But clearly  interested enough to write out a post about it



You seemed to feel there was a link between the presence of the bar and the tree being cut down ‘without explanation’.

Just trying to help square that circle for you, guv, and apologies if I mis-stated your baseline level of histrionics.

On which point, did I overshoot or undershoot?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 24, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> I think the roots of that tree may have been interfering with the services under the pavement.



Finally, a boffin appears!

10 posts too late is better than never.


----------



## editor (Oct 24, 2019)

8ball said:


> Just trying to help square that circle for you, guv, and apologies if I mis-stated your baseline level of histrionics.
> 
> On which point, did I overshoot or undershoot?


You're just plain boring and unfunny. Give it a rest, eh?


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 24, 2019)

8ball said:


> Finally, a boffin appears!
> 
> 10 posts too late is better than never.


Sorry mate. It's only just come down the grapevine which, coincidentally, is being cut down next week the make way for the new Coldharbour Lane Pandora shop.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 24, 2019)

editor said:


> You're just plain boring and unfunny. Give it a rest, eh?



But you’re so funny when you talk about Brewdog. It’s hard not to want to join in the fun. 

What else *really* boils your piss about Brewdog?  Do you like the plain wooden floors (I am not trying to relate them to the tree thing by the way).


----------



## editor (Oct 24, 2019)

8ball said:


> But you’re so funny when you talk about Brewdog. It’s hard not to want to join in the fun.
> 
> What else *really* boils your piss about Brewdog?  Do you like the plain wooden floors (I am not trying to relate them to the tree thing by the way).


 
See post #1484


----------



## 8ball (Oct 24, 2019)

editor said:


> See post #1484



Those neon tubes probably suck up a good bit of power, too.  

As the rainforests burn...


----------



## T & P (Oct 24, 2019)




----------



## discobastard (Oct 24, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> ToHam could be Tottenham or Tower Hamlets, whole system is fucked



It's only permitted where a name contains two words that work together  - Tottenham doesn't qualify, ToHam is OK (but doesn't sound great).  WeNo works because 'we know' what's great about West Norwood (and therefore feel smug).  SheBu sounds like the name of a large dog.

Tulse Hill = TuHi, but that doesn't work because it's a bit of a nothing (like ToHam). 

Fulham Broadway = FuBr, which does work because it is almost FUBAR.

Them's the rules.

Interestingly, BrewDog the name has nothing to do with canines, and is a conflation of 'Brewer's Dogma' whereby the attitude to brewing beer is aggressively fixed and committed (the 'punk' ethos).


----------



## discobastard (Oct 24, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Ever. Worse than people who sign off emails with 'best'



I hear you...

I'm being 'looped in' to quite a lot of emails at the moment.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 26, 2019)

discobastard said:


> I hear you...
> 
> I'm being 'looped in' to quite a lot of emails at the moment.



I used to sign emails off with ‘regards’ but changed it after I had a bit of a rant at management and it turns out the G on a keyboard is really close to the T.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2019)

8ball said:


> I used to sign emails off with ‘regards’ but changed it after I had a bit of a rant at management and it turns out the G on a keyboard is really close to the T.


If you get an email with regards it always means no regard. I always put best wishes


----------



## 8ball (Oct 26, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> If you get an email with regards it always means no regard. I always put best wishes



I always type ‘Best regards’ (well, actually I just type ‘breg’ and AHK does the rest), is that considered passive-aggressive these days? (I mean the ‘best regards’ thing, not the AHK thing)

Not something I’ve really thought about in a while.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2019)

8ball said:


> I always type ‘Best regards’ (well, actually I just type ‘breg’ and AHK does the rest), is that considered passive-aggressive these days? (I mean the ‘best regards’ thing, not the AHK thing)
> 
> Not something I’ve really thought about in a while.


Best regards means minimal interest in the recipient but an appreciation they're alive


----------



## 8ball (Oct 26, 2019)

Pickman's model said:


> Best regards means minimal interest in the recipient but an appreciation they're alive



Cheers - seems I hit on exactly what I was aiming for.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 26, 2019)

I tend to finish emails with Many thanks or Best wishes.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 26, 2019)

equationgirl said:


> I tend to finish emails with Many thanks or Best wishes.



I find Many Thanks to be a bit too Terry Tibbs for my liking, and best wishes seems more suited to a get-well-soon card.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 26, 2019)

I do many thanks and sometimes best wishes or all the best. When I don't like the person I don't reply for ages then when I do I just use my name, no fluff before.

Hi dickhead

Yes

Proper Tidy


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 26, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I do many thanks and sometimes best wishes or all the best. When I don't like the person I don't reply for ages then when I do I just use my name, no fluff before.
> 
> Hi dickhead
> 
> ...


I have been known to add a Kind Regards to an icily polite email that makes it clear I mean nothing of the kind.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 26, 2019)

Louis MacNeice said:


> Brew your own. It's easy and works out less than 50p a pint even for something heavily hopped; a standard stout or pale ale is closer to 30p a pint. Lager is trickier because of the need for sustained low temps, but you can get pretty close.
> 
> Cheers - Louis MacNeice


There's quite a few of us who BYO on the boards. About to make my Xmas pudding beer tomorrow.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 26, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> There's quite a few of us who BYO on the boards. About to make my Xmas pudding beer tomorrow.



Don’t suppose you have a brewing discussion thread going?


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 26, 2019)

8ball said:


> Don’t suppose you have a brewing discussion thread going?


Home Brew Questions


----------



## discobastard (Oct 31, 2019)

Free pints for voters in the upcoming elections:


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 31, 2019)

What an odd promotion.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 31, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Free pints for voters in the upcoming elections:
> View attachment 188694


I think there are 12 Brewdog branches in London. So potentially 12 free pints for any London voters.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 31, 2019)

How on earth will they know you have voted?  Presumably it'll be your Polling Card which they'll stamp or something after enrolling you onto their mailing list etc.  Pretty sure Fullers still offer a free pint for signing up to their mailing and Youngs might do as well.


----------



## discobastard (Oct 31, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> How on earth will they know you have voted?  Presumably it'll be your Polling Card which they'll stamp or something after enrolling you onto their mailing list etc.  Pretty sure Fullers still offer a free pint for signing up to their mailing and Youngs might do as well.


Polling card or selfie in the booth I believe.  Apparently they did the same in 2017 election.  So no 'official' endorsement required.


----------



## alex_ (Oct 31, 2019)

teuchter said:


> I think there are 12 Brewdog branches in London. So potentially 12 free pints for any London voters.



And with where their branches are and the age profile of who follows them on twitter and attempt to get out the vote highly likely to benefit left of center parties.

will this finally get editor into brewdog ?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 31, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Polling card or selfie in the booth I believe.



I recall something about photography in polling booths being at best problematic.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 31, 2019)

discobastard said:


> Polling card or selfie in the booth I believe.  Apparently they did the same in 2017 election.  So no 'official' endorsement required.



Well I'm actually in Central London on that day.  I can take my polling card, I don't actually vote but I'm still going to claim my free pint(s).  I think they'll appreciate that sort of counter culture rebel attitude.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 31, 2019)

teuchter said:


> I think there are 12 Brewdog branches in London. So potentially 12 free pints for any London voters.



12 pints of punk is quite a lot mind.  Then again I fancy a challenge and I don't much fancy being awake / aware when the results come in.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 31, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> How on earth will they know you have voted?  Presumably it'll be your Polling Card which they'll stamp or something after enrolling you onto their mailing list etc.  Pretty sure Fullers still offer a free pint for signing up to their mailing and Youngs might do as well.


Polling card or a selfie outside a polling station apparently!

BrewDog to offer free pints to voters again


----------



## teuchter (Oct 31, 2019)

Teaboy said:


> 12 pints of punk is quite a lot mind.  Then again I fancy a challenge and I don't much fancy being awake / aware when the results come in.


I look forward to hearing how you get on.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2019)

Jesus


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 31, 2019)

Spymaster said:


> Polling card or a selfie outside a polling station apparently!
> 
> BrewDog to offer free pints to voters again


Fancy a pub crawl 


_Make sure you've got my date in your diary. Two weeks tomorrow. Swedish sauna and birch flogging  _


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 31, 2019)

Have we had this yet?






Sounds like a lovely way for a veggie/carne couple to share a meal.

BrewDog launches half beef, half vegan Hybrid burger


----------



## teuchter (Oct 31, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> Have we had this yet?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, we've not discussed this at all.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 31, 2019)

teuchter said:


> No, we've not discussed this at all.


What do you think then King Dour? Do you think it's just another attempts by some hipstards to cash in on the Vink pound or an honest burger attempt to cut carbon emissions on their lunch time menu?

Me I'm hoping it's like a nice burger with a bubble and squeak patty on top> I'd go for that.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 31, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> What do you think then King Dour? Do you think it's just another attempts by some hipstards to cash in on the Vink pound or an honest burger attempt to cut carbon emissions on their lunch time menu?
> 
> Me I'm hoping it's like a nice burger with a bubble and squeak patty on top> I'd go for that.


I think it's a positive step towards encouraging people in the direction of veganism. I'll be interested in the views of this thread's anti-Brewdog headbangers though. Hard to predict what they will make of it.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 31, 2019)

teuchter said:


> No, we've not discussed this at all.



What is it?


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> Sounds like a lovely way for a veggie/carne couple to share a meal.


No vegan is going to want a vegan burger that's been smothered in meat.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 31, 2019)

alex_ said:


> And with where their branches are and the age profile of who follows them on twitter and attempt to get out the vote highly likely to benefit left of center parties.



I reject this analysis


----------



## 8ball (Oct 31, 2019)

editor said:


> No vegan is going to want a vegan burger that's been smothered in meat.



Don’t take this as a personal attack, but I think friedaweed may have been aware of this.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 31, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I reject this analysis



Why?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Oct 31, 2019)

8ball said:


> Why?


Because it is wrong


----------



## 8ball (Oct 31, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> Because it is wrong



That is a good reason to reject it.  I think you can guess at what a follow-up question might be.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2019)

8ball said:


> Don’t take this as a personal attack, but I think friedaweed may have been aware of this.


I'm sure he can speak for himself.  There's really no need for you to pipe up. Again. Thanks.


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 31, 2019)

The nearest BrewDog to me is Nottingham 25 miles away it's a bit far to go for a free pint,  the local Tesco Express stocks it though, Would they give me a free bottle
of it if I show my polling card?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 31, 2019)

MickiQ said:


> The nearest BrewDog to me is Nottingham 25 miles away it's a bit far to go for a free pint,  the local Tesco Express stocks it though, Would they give me a free bottle
> of it if I show my polling card?



Melton?


----------



## Buckaroo (Oct 31, 2019)

Half vegan?


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 31, 2019)

8ball said:


> Melton?


Nope other direction


----------



## 8ball (Oct 31, 2019)

MickiQ said:


> Nope other direction



Matlock is nice.  Don’t know Chesterfield.

Probably wrong on both counts..


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 31, 2019)

editor said:


> No vegan is going to want a vegan burger that's been smothered in meat.


I kinda considered this but then I got to thinking... then what if a couple of folk got together on a date after weeks of online exchanges after meeting on rebelmatch.com and went out for a meal and one of them was strictly do-boeuf and the other was a tofu tinker-bell how far would that go?

OK you might not want to share the sandwich of compromise but where would that end? Would you throw the tongue in in the cab, after teeth had been brushed, never?

This could be the burger that said fuck our dietary choices we still love each other and want to share our juices regardless of their origins. 

Do vegans kiss people who dig swine or do they give them a wide swerve?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 31, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> I kinda considered this but then I got to thinking... then what if a couple of folk got together on a date after weeks of online exchanges after meeting on rebelmatch.com and went out for a meal and one of them was strictly do-boeuf and the other was a tofu tinker-bell how far would that go?
> 
> OK you might not want to share the sandwich of compromise but where would that end? Would you throw the tongue in in the cab, after teeth had been brushed, never?
> 
> ...



Well, you’re not encouraging a particular farming system, or providing any market incentive for the creation of animal products either way, so I guess it would vary by personal taste.


----------



## alex_ (Oct 31, 2019)

Proper Tidy said:


> I reject this analysis



That’s nice.

I suggest brewdog followers on twitter and people who live near brewdog branches are more likely to be under than over 40.

Therefore attempts by brewdog to encourage voting is more likely to bring out people on the left than right.


----------



## Buckaroo (Oct 31, 2019)

Bollocks to bar graphs.
Vegan militia go around picking pepperoni off peoples pizzas and giving them a slap and chucking an almond milk-free-milk-shake in their face.


----------



## friedaweed (Oct 31, 2019)

8ball said:


> so I guess it would vary by personal taste.


I love the taste of meat


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 31, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> I kinda considered this but then I got to thinking... then what if a couple of folk got together on a date after weeks of online exchanges after meeting on rebelmatch.com and went out for a meal and one of them was strictly do-boeuf and the other was a tofu tinker-bell how far would that go?
> 
> OK you might not want to share the sandwich of compromise but where would that end? Would you throw the tongue in in the cab, after teeth had been brushed, never?
> 
> ...


I know 2 couples where one is vegan and one is not, the older pair are friends of ours have been married for twenty odd years and the other is one of my nephew and his g/f who have lived together for 3 or 4 years. I don't know if it's significant but the veggie half of both couples is the female half.


----------



## editor (Oct 31, 2019)

Buckaroo said:


> Bollocks to bar graphs.
> Vegan militia go around picking pepperoni off peoples pizzas and giving them a slap and chucking an almond milk-free-milk-shake in their face.


I've no idea what that means but YEAH!


----------



## 8ball (Oct 31, 2019)

MickiQ said:


> I know 2 couples where one is vegan and one is not, the older pair are friends of ours have been married for twenty odd years and the other is one of my nephew and his g/f who have lived together for 3 or 4 years. I don't know if it's significant but the veggie half of both couples is the female half.



Not really significant - within that age cohort most veggies are female by a wide margin.

Edit: tbf it would be equally insignificant with any other combination of gender and dietary preference, given the sample size.  Of the vegans I know, it’s about a 50:50 split, maybe a little more female-biased for vegetarians.  Not really typical, but just the way the dice roll.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 31, 2019)

8ball said:


> What is it?


Approximately 50% of it is 100% vegan.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 31, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> Do vegans kiss people who dig swine or do they give them a wide swerve?



Interesting technical question.

It would seem relevant in the time shortly after a meal. 

If it's not, then I don't see why all the fuss about vegetables that might have come a tiny bit into contact with meat.


----------



## Buckaroo (Oct 31, 2019)

Spectrum. Vulcan, whatever.


----------



## Buckaroo (Oct 31, 2019)

teuchter said:


> Interesting technical question.
> 
> It would seem relevant in the time shortly after a meal.
> 
> If it's not, then I don't see why all the fuss about vegetables that might have come a tiny bit into contact with meat.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 31, 2019)

Buckaroo said:


> Spectrum. Vulcan, whatever.



Are you trying to say that if vegans reject food that has come a tiny bit into contact with meat, this indicates that they are autistic? Not sure what your point is here, or why you're making it.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 1, 2019)

Buckaroo said:


> View attachment 188727



What have logical people ever done for us?


----------



## salem (Nov 1, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> Do vegans kiss people who dig swine or do they give them a wide swerve?


I'm a meat eater but would be put off kissing someone if they still had remnants of their dinner (meat or veg) still lurking in their mouth.


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 1, 2019)

salem said:


> I'm a meat eater but would be put off kissing someone if they still had remnants of their dinner (meat or veg) still lurking in their mouth.


What if it was butterscotch angle delight and they'd just licked it off your willy?


----------



## salem (Nov 1, 2019)

I said I'd be put off by remnants of dinner - Angel Delight is desert, that's fine.


----------



## tonysingh (Nov 1, 2019)

friedaweed said:


> What if it was butterscotch angle delight and they'd just licked it off your willy?



Butterscotch angel delight is waaaaay too close to faeces in both texture and colour to be appealing surely?


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 1, 2019)

tonysingh said:


> Butterscotch angel delight is waaaaay too close to faeces in both texture and colour to be appealing surely?


Everybody's got their kink mate.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2020)

Classic greenwashing bullshit



> Independent craft brewer BrewDog, has revealed the details of the first initiative from its sustainable business charter ‘BrewDog Tomorrow’, with Cans for Equity.
> 
> The scheme will see BrewDog exchange shares in its business for empty beer cans, in a bid to encourage more sustainable business practices through incentivised recycling.
> 
> ...


How many people are going to bother collecting 50 empty cans?  And then compare with the environmental damage caused by their shitty 'world's beeriest airline' which encourages people to fly across the Atlantic. BrewDog


----------



## salem (Feb 18, 2020)

And the bother of lugging 50 cans to a brewdog bar. For a share they normally sell for £25 (but actual value is debatable).

Still might be worth it for barstaff at nearby pubs to make a little bonus.

But really it's just a PR piece for another round of their shitty share issue.

How many of the cans involved here wouldn't have been recycled anyway? I'd put the number of people who might be tempted by this but don't have a recycling bin at around 0.


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 18, 2020)

I had a hard enough time collecting 50 gold coke can ring pulls during Euro '96 to get a free football training top. No way would I be arsed collecting 50 actual cans.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 18, 2020)

Buy fifty cans of beer from us and we'll give you a trivial discount


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Buy fifty cans of beer from us and we'll give you a trivial discount


They're not trying to get people to buy more beer though. It's a brand awareness and association campaign to get media outlets to write about them as part of a much larger program ahead of their planned stock flotation later this year.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 18, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> They're not trying to get people to buy more beer though. It's a brand awareness and association campaign to get media outlets to write about them as part of a much larger program ahead of their planned stock flotation later this year.



Yes that too but it does also involve having to buy fifty cans of brewdog


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Yes that too but it does also involve having to buy fifty cans of brewdog


Nobody is going to buy 50 cans just to get a share and they don't expect them to. People who are already buying loads of the stuff might save tins that they'd buy anyway or collect their mate's, but Brewdog won't be expecting to sell more beer through this. It's about ramping-up chat prior to them listing. Getting this thread bumped is a perfect example of it working.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Buy fifty cans of beer from us and we'll give you a trivial discount


Still mocking the fuck out of their pathetic attempts at 'worthy' PR provides a good enough excuse to remind people that Brewdog are a bunch of cunts.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2020)

tbh if it was 50 bottles it'd be a different thing, wander round shoreditch for a weekend and you'd likely find enough to get a minor seat on the board


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> tbh if it was 50 bottles it'd be a different thing, wander round shoreditch for a weekend and you'd likely find enough to get a minor seat on the board


Who'd want to wander around Shoreditch on a weekend? And more to the point: who'd want any kind of ongoing involvement with the cunts at Brewdog?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2020)

editor said:


> Who'd want to wander around Shoreditch on a weekend? And more to the point: who'd want any kind of ongoing involvement with the cunts at Brewdog?


People who liked their overhopped beer and share their faux rebel vision


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> People who liked their overhopped beer and share their faux rebel vision


Of whom there are many thousands judging by the company’s overwhelming achievement in a highly competitive sector. To even get people who think you’re “cunts” contributing to your success takes some doing!


----------



## Big Bertha (Feb 18, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Of whom there are many thousands judging by the company’s overwhelming achievement in a highly competitive sector. To even get people who think you’re “cunts” contributing to your success takes some doing!


They may be cunts but they are London Living Wage paying cunts. 

Unlike a lot of pubs in Brixton!


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2020)

Big Bertha said:


> They may be cunts but they are London Living Wage paying cunts.
> 
> Unlike a lot of pubs in Brixton!


Sorry, what has Brixton got to do with this?


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

Big Bertha said:


> They may be cunts but they are London Living Wage paying cunts.
> 
> Unlike a lot of pubs in Brixton!


Indeed. People who criticise Brewdog et al but lionise the smaller pub scene in places like Brixton would do well to bear this in mind if they were ever tempted to spout guff on the internet.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 18, 2020)

I'm sorry but any group of people who can coin the phrase 'equity for punks' are cunts


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> I'm sorry but any group of people who can coin the phrase 'equity for punks' are cunts


Or members of a section of the acting union


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 18, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> Or members of a section of the acting union



Same same


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

They're also turning beer into vodka.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 18, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> They're also turning beer into vodka.



I mean come on. You can admire their business strategy if you want, you can concede they are highly successful, and you can recognise that a factor in that is their contrived corporate edgyness being an irritant to many. But spymaster you cannot deny they are cunts.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> I mean come on. You can admire their business strategy if you want, you can concede they are highly successful, and you can recognise that a factor in that is their contrived corporate edgyness being an irritant to many. But spymaster you cannot deny they are cunts.


I dunno. You'd have to define what it is about them that you think makes them cunts. Chances are it's part of what makes them one of the most popular and successful brewing groups in the country so it's subjective isn't it?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 18, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I dunno. You'd have to define what it is about them that you think makes them cunts. Chances are it's part of what makes them one of the most popular and successful brewing groups in the country so it's subjective isn't it?



No, they are objectively cunts. It's measurable. It's just there is a lot of cunts out there. 

Also they got into the dickhead can game early doors and now they sell brewdog everywhere.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> No, they are objectively cunts. It's measurable.


In what way?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 18, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> In what way?



From here to the ceiling


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

Can't argue with that.


----------



## T & P (Feb 18, 2020)

They might be cunts or at least annoying, cynical twats in many people’s books, but IMO not nearly enough so to get one’s blood pressure up on their account. Certainly as far as businesses are concerned.

Companies paying shit wages, treating their employees like slaves, investing in unethical ventures/ countries/ industries, or engaging in elaborate tax dodging schemes that deprive this country of vital tax revenue, should be a million times more objectionable than companies engaging in cynical PR campaigns to improve their image. That doesn’t mean the likes of Brewdog should be free of criticism, but I myself would rather save my anger and vitriol for more worthy targets.

Amazon doesn’t do silly PR stunts or try to shamelessly appropriate cultures to make itself look cool, and their adverts don’t usually make people think ‘what a bunch of fake bandwagon jumping cunts’. Yet their actions, from their disgraceful tax avoidance schemes  to their employee welfare to their snooping practices are about trillion times more abominable than anything a shouty business like Brewdog has ever done. And to our shame many of us are Amazon customers whether occasional or regulars, and will overlook such behaviour.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> They might be cunts or at least annoying, cynical twats in many people’s books, but IMO not nearly enough so to get one’s blood pressure up on their account. Certainly as far as businesses are concerned.
> 
> Companies paying shit wages, treating their employees like slaves, investing in unethical ventures/ countries/ industries, or engaging in elaborate tax dodging schemes that deprive this country of vital tax revenue, should be a million times more objectionable than companies engaging in cynical PR campaigns to improve their image. That doesn’t mean the likes of Brewdog should be free of criticism, but I myself would rather save my anger and vitriol for more worthy targets.
> 
> Amazon doesn’t do silly PR stunts or try to shamelessly appropriate cultures to make itself look cool, and their adverts don’t usually make people think ‘what a bunch of fake bandwagon jumping cunts’. Yet their actions, from their disgraceful tax avoidance schemes  to their employee welfare to their snooping practices are about trillion times more abominable than anything a shouty business like Brewdog has ever done. And to our shame many of us are Amazon customers whether occasional or regulars, and will overlook such behaviour.


A former employee took them to tribunal because they refused him reasonable adjustments to his work environment for his blindness. They might pay living wage but they're not the bastions of corporate good you're claiming.

If mistreating a disabled employer isn't the mark of a cunt I don't know what is.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> A former employee took them to tribunal because they refused him reasonable adjustments to his work environment for his blindness. They might pay living wage but they're not the bastions of corporate good you're claiming.
> 
> If mistreating a disabled employer isn't the mark of a cunt I don't know what is.


This was addressed earlier in this thread and found to be not quite the way that you present it, iirc.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 18, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> This was addressed earlier in this thread and found to be not quite the way that you present it, iirc.


I think you'll find it was. The employee didn't win for no reason.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> I think you'll find it was.


I'm not so sure. As I recall the discussion petered out when you failed to provide specific links to support your assertions at #1246.

We can revisit it if you like though?


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> They might be cunts or at least annoying, cynical twats in many people’s books, but IMO not nearly enough so to get one’s blood pressure up on their account. Certainly as far as businesses are concerned.
> 
> Companies paying shit wages, treating their employees like slaves, investing in unethical ventures/ countries/ industries, or engaging in elaborate tax dodging schemes that deprive this country of vital tax revenue, should be a million times more objectionable than companies engaging in cynical PR campaigns to improve their image. That doesn’t mean the likes of Brewdog should be free of criticism, but I myself would rather save my anger and vitriol for more worthy targets.
> 
> Amazon doesn’t do silly PR stunts or try to shamelessly appropriate cultures to make itself look cool, and their adverts don’t usually make people think ‘what a bunch of fake bandwagon jumping cunts’. Yet their actions, from their disgraceful tax avoidance schemes  to their employee welfare to their snooping practices are about trillion times more abominable than anything a shouty business like Brewdog has ever done. And to our shame many of us are Amazon customers whether occasional or regulars, and will overlook such behaviour.


Pointing out a more successful set of cunts doesn't stop Brewdog being total fucking cunts, and for some folk, to have them cash in shamelessly on the reputation of punk - and try to sue little fish on  the way - marks them out as an extra-special type of cunt. Plus they're pathetic sexist twats as well.

Oh, look. Let's have some millionaires pretending to be beggars in the streets and then let's see them pretend to be sex workers. Utter fucking cunts.





> Watt and Dickie are then shown in a series of "embarrassing" scenarios, which includes begging for money on the streets and in a window dressed in women's clothes as sex workers.
> 
> In reaction to the campaign, which was launched on the 1st of September, the petition stated: "BrewDog beer company claims to be "beer for punks". They claim to be ethical. Yet in their new crowdsourcing video they mock homeless people, trans women and sex workers.
> 
> ...











						This 'Transphobic' BrewDog Beer Advert Sparks Petition Calling For Removal
					






					www.huffingtonpost.co.uk


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 18, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I'm not so sure. As I recall the discussion petered out when you failed to provide specific links to support your assertions at #1246.
> 
> We can revisit it if you like though?


Look, I'm not doing your internet research for you, as I pointed out last time.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Look, I'm not doing your internet research for you, as I pointed out last time.


That was just a cop-out though. If memory serves you were trying to leverage a split tribunal decision, in what was a difficult case where sympathy was expressed for Brewdog’s position, into a much broader 'shit employer' play, which you were unable to evidence because it was demonstrable nonsense. As you're doing here.


----------



## Big Bertha (Feb 18, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I dunno. You'd have to define what it is about them that you think makes them cunts. Chances are it's part of what makes them one of the most popular and successful brewing groups in the country so it's subjective isn't it?


Absolutely, let’s try to get to a definitive definition of who or what is a cunt.


----------



## T & P (Feb 18, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> A former employee took them to tribunal because they refused him reasonable adjustments to his work environment for his blindness. They might pay living wage but they're not the bastions of corporate good you're claiming.
> 
> If mistreating a disabled employer isn't the mark of a cunt I don't know what is.


I never said they were any good at all- quite the contrary. I simply argued that in the grand scheme of things their cuntiness level is undoubtedly orders of magnitude lower than countless other companies out there, from certain supermarket chains to certain train operating companies, fast food multinationals or soft drink manufacturers to name but a few.

If Brewdog annoys people enough to keep a regular watch on their every activity and campaign and report it in a dedicated thread, fair enough. All I’m saying is that I myself would save my efforts for companies engaging in far more abominable or damaging behaviour than what Brewdog has ever done.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2020)

Big Bertha said:


> Absolutely, let’s try to get to a definitive definition of who or what is a cunt.


You could start with millionaires who take the piss out of homeless people and sex workers in the name of self promotion for their multi million company.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> I never said they were any good at all- quite the contrary. I simply argued that in the grand scheme of things their cuntiness level is undoubtedly orders of magnitude lower than countless other companies out there, from certain supermarket chains to certain train operating companies, fast food multinationals or soft drink manufacturers to name but a few.
> 
> If Brewdog annoys people enough to keep a regular watch on their every activity and campaign and report it in a dedicated thread, fair enough. All I’m saying is that I myself would save my efforts for companies engaging in far more abominable or damaging behaviour than what Brewdog has ever done.


They're not mutually exclusive activities.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> I never said they were any good at all- quite the contrary. I simply argued that in the grand scheme of things their cuntiness level is undoubtedly orders of magnitude lower than countless other companies out there, from certain supermarket chains to certain train operating companies, fast food multinationals or soft drink manufacturers to name but a few.
> 
> If Brewdog annoys people enough to keep a regular watch on their every activity and campaign and report it in a dedicated thread, fair enough. All I’m saying is that I myself would save my efforts for companies engaging in far more abominable or damaging behaviour than what Brewdog has ever done.


You have to remember that certain companies get on certain people's shit lists when those people have their own agendas to pursue. It's not set in stone though. As we've seen recently, companies can go from "bunch of wankers" to thread-postingly super within months if they produce a product that takes one's fancy. Past transgressions are instantly forgiven, so there's hope for Brewdog yet!


----------



## Big Bertha (Feb 18, 2020)

editor said:


> You could start with millionaires who take the piss out of homeless people and sex workers in the name of self promotion for their multi million company.


But they weren’t millionaires at the beginning were they? They started off small and made a massive success out of their business.

Or have I got it wrong? Apologies if so...


----------



## editor (Feb 19, 2020)

Big Bertha said:


> But they weren’t millionaires at the beginning were they? They started off small and made a massive success out of their business.
> 
> Or have I got it wrong? Apologies if so...


Why the fuck are you making apologies for these pricks?


----------



## alex_ (Feb 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Buy fifty cans of beer from us and we'll give you a trivial discount



It’s about 50% off, if you buy them from Tesco and the share is worth 25 quid.

Alex


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 19, 2020)

alex_ said:


> It’s about 50% off, if you buy them from Tesco ...


That's about 48 cans for £30, so almost free beer for anyone who can be arsed to save the tins.

Not too shabby, in fairness. Negotiate a bit of a better discount (or sell the beer) and there's an arbitrage opportunity!


----------



## Rob Ray (Feb 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I dunno. You'd have to define what it is about them that you think makes them cunts.











						BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff
					

A storm brewing BrewDog certainly has a unique way of going about things. First there’s the provocative marketing which has gained the company substantial international coverage.   “We have a terminal addiction to make beers we want to drink. Beer with teeth and balls. Beer we lust for. Crafted...




					www.urban75.net


----------



## skyscraper101 (Feb 19, 2020)

I don't drink nearly enough beer to make it worthwhile. Even if I did I wouldn't be drinking Brewdog products.


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## William of Walworth (Feb 20, 2020)

Shit!!  We broke our boycott on Monday and went to the new Swansea Brewdog place        at selves 

Very much a one-off -- it was our friend Sarah's 45th and she'd got all her other friends to assemble there.

Beer cost was a shocker, if £5= a pint still is a shocker (well it is *in Swansea*  )

Their Zombie Porter (5%) was actually quite nice, and their vegan Monday deal (2 meals for one) was a reasonable price too -- albeit I had to have their (tasty) salad and 'fries' because all 4 of their other vegan options were imitation meat, seitan etc., and I absolutely hate that whole concept 

*BUT* never again!!! even if Swansea's BD place is a bit 'cheaper' than Bristol and Cardiff.

Went to The Bank Statement (Spoons) across the road afterwards, to recover .... 
Pint of Cotleigh Old Buzzard (4.8%) there? £1:85 on Pensioners' Monday! 
festivaldeb's double gin (a special one, too) in their current gin festival? About £2:50 ... 

Say what you like about Wetherspoons .........


----------



## seeformiles (Feb 20, 2020)

William of Walworth said:


> Shit!!  We broke our boycott on Monday and went to the new Swansea Brewdog place        at selves
> 
> Very much a one-off -- it was our friend Sarah's 45th and she'd got all her other friends to assemble there.
> 
> ...



The BD bar in Leeds is just as pricey. I was there for someone’s leaving do and thought I’d get the most bang for my buck so was about to order a 6.3% brew only to find that the £5.50 price tag was for 2/3 of a pint - ouch! Not exactly “craft beer for the people” at that price.


----------



## killer b (Feb 20, 2020)

I've not had a drink in 6 years, and £5 craft beer pints were fairly common when I was drinking - are people really still complaining about it? It's just inflation.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> You have to remember that certain companies get on certain people's shit lists when those people have their own agendas to pursue. It's not set in stone though. As we've seen recently, companies can go from "bunch of wankers" to thread-postingly super within months if they produce a product that takes one's fancy. Past transgressions are instantly forgiven, so there's hope for Brewdog yet!


I wonder what it would take for them to alter editor's opinion


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 20, 2020)

killer b said:


> I've not had a drink in 6 years, and £5 craft beer pints were fairly common when I was drinking - are people really still complaining about it? It's just inflation.


A fiver is probably about average in central London boozers now. Not much less outside, especially if you’re into continental/Brewdog style fizzpiss.


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Feb 20, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> A fiver is probably about average in central London boozers now. Not much less outside, especially if you’re into continental/Brewdog style fizzpiss.



I'd say over a fiver is standard outside of London if you like those kind of pubs.


----------



## killer b (Feb 20, 2020)

When I worked in an average Bass pub in Preston in 1996, it was £2.80 for a pint of whatever the premium beer was (Carling Premier had just been launched - just remember what used to be _premium_ beer  ) - that's £5.29 in today's money according to the BOE inflation calculator. The £5 pint has always been with us.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2020)

killer b said:


> When I worked in an average Bass pub in Preston in 1996, it was £2.80 for a pint of whatever the premium beer was (Carling Premier had just been launched - just remember what used to be _premium_ beer  ) - that's £5.29 in today's money according to the BOE inflation calculator. The £5 pint has always been with us.


when i drank in a north london freehouse in 1998 i paid £2.24 for a pint of stella. your £2.80 well over the odds.


----------



## killer b (Feb 20, 2020)

fuck me you're boring.


----------



## butchersapron (Feb 20, 2020)

Av price of pint of draught lager 96-98 was 1.75- 1.90. Obv some would be more than others but either way, basic prem lager would be nearer two quid than three on the whole i think. Also has 2019 av as 3.73 My local does kronenburg for 3.50. Fosters etc is 3 quid. Bitters cheaper still.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 20, 2020)

killer b said:


> fuck me you're boring.


fuck me you're hypocritical.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Feb 20, 2020)

I'd imagine in late 90s like now it depends on where you drink really


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## T & P (Mar 18, 2020)

*Brewdog to switch some production to hand sanitisers*









						Gin and beer firms start making hand sanitiser
					

BrewDog said they had started manufacturing 'Punk Sanisiter' for people struggling to get it amid huge increased demand.




					metro.co.uk
				










See? They aren't all bad


----------



## JimW (Mar 18, 2020)

Same great taste!


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 18, 2020)




----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> *Brewdog to switch some production to hand sanitisers*
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They're now advertising a 'drive though'  service in Brixton. You know, the borough with one of the highest levels of road pollution and also with the lowest amount of car ownership.

And are they giving away the sanitiser?


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 18, 2020)

Yes, are they giving it away or even at zero profit to them? As someone with an underlying health condition I've been unable to locate any for a couple of weeks.

Edit: brewdog said they would give it away, but followed it up with them losing 70% of their business overnight, in a rather ominous way.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 18, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Yes, are they giving it away or even at zero profit to them? As someone with an underlying health condition I've been unable to locate any for a couple of weeks.


i found some in a shop in islington earlier, charging £8 for perhaps 100ml


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 18, 2020)

Dunno how I missed T & P's post when I whacked the photo up but tbh I did laugh a bit at punk sanitiser.

Wonder what it costs


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 18, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> i found some in a shop in islington earlier, charging £8 for perhaps 100ml


Cheeky price gouging fucks.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Dunno how I missed T & P's post when I whacked the photo up but tbh I did laugh a bit at punk sanitiser.
> 
> Wonder what it costs


The other company featured in the article say the main problem is the duty they have to pay.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 18, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> The other company featured in the article say the main problem is the duty they have to pay.



I think brewdog say in piece they are giving it away which if accurate then fair enough really. Obviously I'll always think they are wankers because of how they brand themselves, just the way it is


----------



## killer b (Mar 18, 2020)

editor said:


> They're now advertising a 'drive though'  service in Brixton. You know, the borough with one of the highest levels of road pollution and also with the lowest amount of car ownership.
> 
> And are they giving away the sanitiser?


The entire industry is facing total wipeout at the moment, I think you can forgive a brewery for trying to find some way of keeping their sites operating and staff employed.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2020)

killer b said:


> The entire industry is facing total wipeout at the moment, I think you can forgive a brewery for trying to find some way of keeping their sites operating and staff employed.


Why are Brewdog facing a 'total wipeout'? Are people suddenly going to stop buying their cans online or in shops? Even though their crappy bars may get hit they're still in an infinitely stronger position that any pub/independent brewery etc.

Still this is all good PR for them. "Post modern classic" sanitiser, FFS.


----------



## killer b (Mar 18, 2020)

They're in a stronger position than a lot of breweries, sure, but they have a lot of bars now which will all close for the forseeable if they don't develop novel ways of keeping (some of) them open.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2020)

killer b said:


> They're in a stronger position than a lot of breweries, sure, but they have a lot of bars now which will all close for the forseeable if they don't develop novel ways of keeping (some of) them open.


But they're not, by _any measure_, facing a 'total wipeout' as you suggested unless everyone, everywhere suddenly refuses to buy any more of their punk (LOL) produce.


----------



## killer b (Mar 18, 2020)

I said the industry is facing total wipeout, which it is. While brewdog may be in a stronger position than many (I've no idea about this tbh - they've expanded very rapidly in the last few years and may well be overextended financially) they _are_ facing having to close a lot of bars and make a load of people unemployed if they don't  work out some way of keeping them open. Of all the things to be moaning about this week, a bar offering a drive-through service is... not one of them.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> I think brewdog say in piece they are giving it away which if accurate then fair enough really.


Giving it away AND paying duty on it so it's costing them well over £20 a litre. I'd be very surprised if all the firms switching production to sanitisers for the NHS aren't given a break on the duty though.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2020)

killer b said:


> I said the industry is facing total wipeout, which it is. While brewdog may be in a stronger position than many (I've no idea about this tbh - they've expanded very rapidly in the last few years and may well be overextended financially) they _are_ facing having to close a lot of bars and make a load of people unemployed if they don't  work out some way of keeping them open. Of all the things to be moaning about this week, a bar offering a drive-through service is... not one of them.


Maybe if you lived in one of the most polluted areas of London you might get worked up about a business encouraging even more people to drive. And airborne pollution is very relevant to people's health, even more so right now.


----------



## killer b (Mar 18, 2020)

You're right, they should encourage people to crowd onto public transport to pick up their beer. 

oh.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2020)

killer b said:


> You're right, they should encourage people to crowd onto public transport to pick up their beer.
> 
> oh.


Or they could just abandon the whole drive-through concept, close the bar and instruct their loyal family of fake punks to buy the beer online or from an off licence or supermarket, rather than encouraging them to drive a car to the bar.

oh.


----------



## alex_ (Mar 18, 2020)

editor said:


> Or they could just abandon the whole drive-through concept, close the bar and instruct their loyal family of fake punks to buy the beer online or from an off licence or supermarket, rather than encouraging them to drive a car to the bar.
> 
> oh.



and sack all of their staff - London living wage is pretty expensive after all

great work


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2020)

alex_ said:


> and sack all of their staff - London living wage is pretty expensive after all
> 
> great work


How does discouraging them to proceed with their polluting 'drive through' initiative lead to "_all of their staff_" being sacked, please?

But here's what's more important that a fucking novelty, profit-driven  'drive-thru' beer dispensary:  Air pollution responsible for more deaths than smoking, study says


----------



## T & P (Mar 18, 2020)

How on earth are they going to create a drive-through on Coldharbour Lane anyway? Unless it’s elsewhere...


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> How on earth are they going to create a drive-through on Coldharbour Lane anyway? Unless it’s elsewhere...


Presumably you wait outside spewing out exhaust and they trot out to hand you your precious cargo of overpriced beer.


----------



## T & P (Mar 18, 2020)

editor said:


> Presumably you wait outside spewing out exhaust and they trot out to hand you your precious cargo of overpriced beer.


I’m pretty sure that would not be legal on a street like Coldharbour Lane even if there happens to be a single yellow line painted outside their premises. Certainly not calling it a drive-through. Do they have premises elsewhere, perhaps in one of the archers in the area?


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> I’m pretty sure that would not be legal on a street like Coldharbour Lane even if there happens to be a single yellow line painted outside their premises. Certainly not calling it a drive-through. Do they have premises elsewhere, perhaps in one of the archers in the area?


Their press release categorically says that you can pick up from their Brixton bar:


> Scottish craft Brewer BrewDog has announced today that it has launched BrewDog Drive Thru via its Hop Drop App at all BrewDog London bars including their Brixton branch, with the 30% discount for all customers.


And their website says:


> HOW TO ORDER
> 1. Download the Hop Drop app. 2. Select which bar you’re collecting from. 3. Take your pick from our mouth-watering food menu or range of drinks. We’ll even can your chosen draught beer fresh from our taps! 4. Enter your Drive Thru code at the checkout and place your order. 5. Drive to your chosen bar and a member of our awesome bar crew will drop your food off at your car.
> 
> 
> ...


Maybe they can add a bit of extra polluting congestion as the cars have to wait outside and create a traffic jam behind. Awesome!!


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 18, 2020)

T & P said:


> How on earth are they going to create a drive-through on Coldharbour Lane anyway? Unless it’s elsewhere...


It's a pick up job. Order on the app then pick it up from Brixton Brewdog. It'll probably be used mostly by people who don't live in Brixton but can pass through on their way back into London from the south. Keep the engine running, grab your beers and you're away, boom! No need to spend any longer in Brixton than absolutely necessary.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 18, 2020)

Maybe I'm missing something but I would've thought there was a more obvious problem with a drive thru pub than pollution or parking


----------



## klang (Mar 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Maybe I'm missing something but I would've thought there was a more obvious problem with a drive thru pub than pollution or parking


few years ago in Bavaria they passed the glorious law that petrol stations were only allowed to sell beer to drivers, not pedestrians. that regulation was abandoned after a few weeks and never mentioned again.


----------



## editor (Mar 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Maybe I'm missing something but I would've thought there was a more obvious problem with a drive thru pub than pollution or parking


You've certainly missed the post where your exact point has already been made, but you'd be ill advised to play down the impact of air pollution, which kills millions every year.  

Encouraging people to drive in Brixton - an area that is in the top 20% in London for levels of traffic and pollution, but in the bottom 20% in London for car ownership - in the name of profit seems pretty reckless to me. 


> The number of people dying as a result of air pollution may exceed the number killed by smoking, a major new study suggests.
> 
> German researchers estimate that as many as 8.8 million deaths per year globally can be attributed to dirty air.
> 
> ...











						Air pollution responsible for more deaths than smoking, study says
					

‘EU lagging a long way behind’ in tackling toxic air, say researchers as study shows pollution deaths double previous estimates




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 18, 2020)

editor said:


> You've certainly missed the post where your exact point has already been made, but you'd be ill advised to play down the impact of air pollution, which kills millions every year.



I've read every post and none mention that having a drive thru pub could be seen to be encouraging drink driving tho


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 18, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Maybe I'm missing something but I would've thought there was a more obvious problem with a drive thru pub than pollution or parking





littleseb said:


> few years ago in Bavaria they passed the glorious law that petrol stations were only allowed to sell beer to drivers, not pedestrians. that regulation was abandoned after a few weeks and never mentioned again.


There is a pub at the Beaconsfield services on the M40.









						First motorway pub 'offers deadly temptation to drivers'
					

Opening of Wetherspoon's at M40 services alarms campaigners but chain says: 'We do not live in a nanny state'




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## discobastard (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> I've read every post and none mention that having a drive thru pub could be seen to be encouraging drink driving tho


That’s because it’s utter bollocks.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

discobastard said:


> That’s because it’s utter bollocks.



What's utter bollocks, that brew dog are promoting drive thru pubs or that drive thru pubs promote drink driving?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> What's utter bollocks, that brew dog are promoting drive thru pubs or that drive thru pubs promote drink driving?


Promoting DD I reckon. It no more encourages drink driving than picking up booze from and offie or supermarket in a car.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Promoting DD I reckon. It no more encourages drink driving than picking up booze from and offie or supermarket in a car.



Who knows but it's how it will be perceived. Could well cause licensing problems. Do drive through maccie ds promote eating burgers in your car, think it would be reasonable to conclude that yes they do


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

pubs are (for the most part) licensed to sell booze for sale on and off the premises, so operating as an off-license - which is all this is - shouldn't cause problems with the licensing. Causing parking / congestion issues on the road could cause issues though


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Who knows but it's how it will be perceived. Could well cause licensing problems. Do drive through maccie ds promote eating burgers in your car, think it would be reasonable to conclude that yes they do


I don't think so. Not if it was dangerous and illegal. The type of dick who would drink and drive just because he got the booze from a drive through is the type of dick who would drink and drive anyway. Let's face it, all that's happening here is that someone's bringing your (sealed and packaged) booze out to the car instead of you going in to pick it up. This is just Brewdog doing what they do best and hyping the brand with something a bit controversial to get people discussing them. Don't be surprised when these 'drive throughs' quietly disappear after a while.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

Might just be selling take out but they are marketing it as a drive thru. Imagine there is a reason we have drive thru coffee and burgers and banks but not pubs tbf


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

Where they _are_ being cheeky is in calling it _drive thru_ since it's nothing like most people's concept of a drive thru.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Don't be surprised when these 'drive throughs' quietly disappear after a while.


it'll disappear from this weekend when london gets locked down. They just need to clear as many perishables as possible and make a few last sales before shuttering.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Promoting DD I reckon. It no more encourages drink driving than picking up booze from and offie or supermarket in a car.


The problem is not that it causes drink driving, but that it causes driving. It's obviously better to drive sober than to drive drunk, but either way it's selfish and kills people.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

teuchter said:


> The problem is not that it causes drink driving, but that it causes driving. It's obviously better to drive sober than to drive drunk, but either way it's selfish and kills people.


I don't care if it encourages driving in Brixton though because I don't live there any more. I do drive through it every weekend in the summer though, so the additional congestion may be a bit irritating but as I mentioned before, this is marketing hype which I doubt will last long.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

It's true that pollution from vehicles kills lots of people, but tackling it is a job for regulation and legislation, not companies during an international crisis trying to eke out a few more sales before having to close all their sites indefinitely, or the people who might choose to buy stuff from them.


----------



## discobastard (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> What's utter bollocks, that brew dog are promoting drive thru pubs or that drive thru pubs promote drink driving?


It's not promoting drink driving in any way whatsoever.


----------



## discobastard (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Who knows but it's how it will be perceived. Could well cause licensing problems. Do drive through maccie ds promote eating burgers in your car, think it would be reasonable to conclude that yes they do


Who will perceive it like that?


----------



## discobastard (Mar 19, 2020)

Oh, and let's go back to them manufacturing hand sanitiser and giving it away for free to local communities and charities.  A good thing, no?

Actually fuck 'em, they are promoting drink driving and being cunts.  The living wage paying bastards.

Are we that desperate to hate on people?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

discobastard said:


> Who will perceive it like that?



They are calling it a drive thru.

I've nothing against you discobastard, you seem ok, but I only ever come across you when brewdog is mentioned. Like a three times in the mirror scenario.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> ... I only ever come across you ...


Change position. See if you can do him lengthwise.

He's right though. The whole Brewdog hate on here is only because one or two people have taken an extremely vocal and irrational dislike to them and a load of others have followed blindly. As a business/employer/community addition, they are no worse than most food and booze purveyors and they are light-years ahead of many.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Change position. See if you can do him lengthwise.
> 
> He's right though. The whole Brewdog hate on here is only because one or two people have taken an extremely vocal and irrational dislike to them and a load of others have followed blindly. As a business/employer/community addition, they are no worse than most food and booze purveyors and they are light-years ahead of many.



Tbf the main reason they attract so much ire is cos of the wanky way they market themselves. I mean they know this obviously, its intentional, but that's why. And it is wanky, ergo perfectly rational


----------



## bimble (Mar 19, 2020)

I love that this endless  argument about a brand of beer is continuing undeterred, its like a lullaby given the circumstances please add a bit more fighting about cars and don't stop thank you.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Tbf the main reason they attract so much ire is cos of the wanky way they market themselves. I mean they know this obviously, its intentional, but that's why. And it is wanky, ergo perfectly rational


They really don't attract much ire away from here. The thing is, it's an industry in which to be successful nowadays you have to attract youngsters with money. Any publicity that is successful in doing that is pretty much guaranteed not to appeal to nimby old farts. Most simply ignore it and don't frequent the establishments which is fair enough. A handful however, like those on here, get so irate that they bend reality to suit agendas _which themselves are outdated and despised by many other folk!_


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Tbf the main reason they attract so much ire is cos of the wanky way they market themselves. I mean they know this obviously, its intentional, but that's why. And it is wanky, ergo perfectly rational


They really don't attract much ire away from here. The thing is, it's an industry in which to be successful nowadays you have to attract youngsters with money. Any publicity that is successful in doing that is pretty much guaranteed not to appeal to nimby old farts. Most simply ignore it and don't frequent the establishments which is fair enough. A handful however, like those on here, get so irate that they bend reality to suit agendas _which themselves are outdated and despised by other folk!_


----------



## dessiato (Mar 19, 2020)

I rather like their IPA and when I get out I will drive to the nearest bar that sells it and I will enjoy it. I will feel the sun on my face and feel the air. It will be a one hour drive and I just don’t care.

Being on 24 hour lock down can do this to you.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

dessiato said:


> Being on 24 hour lock down can do this to you.


What does that mean out there at the moment? 

Is it just that everything is shut or are you not allowed out of your homes at all? If the latter, what happens if you DO go out?


----------



## Johnny Doe (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Change position. See if you can do him lengthwise.
> 
> He's right though. The whole Brewdog hate on here is only because one or two people have taken an extremely vocal and irrational dislike to them and a load of others have followed blindly. As a business/employer/community addition, they are no worse than most food and booze purveyors and they are light-years ahead of many.



I'd concur with this. I've not heard much criticism of them anywhere else, and the alcohol free folks I tend to talk to love Nanny State, so Brewdog are quite popular


----------



## dessiato (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> What does that mean out there at the moment?
> 
> Is it just that everything is shut or are you not allowed out of your homes at all? If the latter, what happens if you DO go out?


You are allowed out to go food shopping or the pharmacy or hospitals in an emergency. Essential workers are not restricted of course. But even they are allowed to go only to work and back.

All bars restaurants etc are closed. No socialising. 

Parks, beaches etc are all closed.

Breach is a fine from 60€ up, or jail or both.

Public transport is limited. Taxis too.

Airports are closed to internal flights from today.

If you are out you will need receipts to prove you were shopping etc. If driving to the airport or station etc a max of one passenger per car. You must be able to prove you are travelling onwards.

Essentially it's stay at home unless you have a very good, provable reason for being out.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

dessiato said:


> You are allowed out to go food shopping or the pharmacy or hospitals in an emergency. Essential workers are not restricted of course. But even they are allowed to go only to work and back.
> 
> All bars restaurants etc are closed. No socialising.
> 
> ...


So going for a walk alone is not allowed? Can't you just say you're_ going_ food shopping so can't give receipts yet?

What about walking dogs?


----------



## dessiato (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> So going for a walk alone is not allowed? Can't you just say you're_ going_ food shopping so can't give receipts yet?
> 
> What about walking dogs?


You could I suppose. Personally I couldn't. The restrictions aren't just to keep me clear.

You can walk your dog within 50 metres of your home.

That drive through the countryside for that one IPA is something I am looking forward to.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

dessiato said:


> You can walk your dog within 50 metres of your home.


Blimey. He's going to love that.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> They really don't attract much ire away from here. The thing is, it's an industry in which to be successful nowadays you have to attract youngsters with money. Any publicity that is successful in doing that is pretty much guaranteed not to appeal to nimby old farts. Most simply ignore it and don't frequent the establishments which is fair enough. A handful however, like those on here, get so irate that they bend reality to suit agendas _which themselves are outdated and despised by other folk!_



I think they do attract ire away from here. It's not by accident that 'dickhead cans' and 'wanker beer' have entered the lexicon, with Brewdog probably the most visible/high profile of them


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> I think they do attract ire away from here. It's not by accident that 'dickhead cans' and 'wanker beer' have entered the lexicon, with Brewdog probably the most visible/high profile of them


'Dickhead cans', 'wanker beer', and similar terms, have been in use forever, mainly by dickheads and wankers who can't abide the fact that some people have different tastes to theirs. They'll often be the same people who refer to cheap high-strength booze as "tramp juice".


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 19, 2020)

Its just the punk thing isn't it?  Old punks are very proud and very protective of a period of time and a legacy and it is extremely important to them.  Some wanky corporation co-opting and corrupting the attitude and the scene just to sell some booze is pretty much the antithesis of punk.  It cheapens punk and its pretty sordid. No matter how many hand gels they give away or free pints it's little wonder that some people will always resent them massively.


----------



## JimW (Mar 19, 2020)

It's also now one of the easiest British beers for me to buy here. Was never much one for lager but have switched to the local brew as it's a fraction of the price of imported and not that bad once you get used to it, even if it's no lovely pint of mild.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 19, 2020)

discobastard said:


> Are we that desperate to hate on people?



Only when they're successful.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Old punks are very proud and very protective of a period of time and a legacy and it is extremely important to them.


All 25 of them!


----------



## 8ball (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> I think they do attract ire away from here. It's not by accident that 'dickhead cans' and 'wanker beer' have entered the lexicon, with Brewdog probably the most visible/high profile of them



I thought Wanker beer had petered out since the Americans bought up the rights from the original NZ company that brewed it.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Mar 19, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Its just the punk thing isn't it?  Old punks are very proud and very protective of a period of time and a legacy and it is extremely important to them.  Some wanky corporation co-opting and corrupting the attitude and the scene just to sell some booze is pretty much the antithesis of punk.  It cheapens punk and its pretty sordid. No matter how many hand gels they give away or free pints it's little wonder that some people will always resent them massively.



Got to admit I find it quite amusing how much that gets under people's skin. It's not like punk hasn't been cheapened for years in about a million ways is it. If you want to hold tight to that legacy you'll already need to be pretty good at valuing the good and screening out the bad.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> All 25 of them!


In Blackpool in august there is an annual punk festival with about an 8000 capacity - a magnificent sea of balding men with mohawks. I'm not sure where they go the rest of the year.


----------



## Callie (Mar 19, 2020)

bimble said:


> I love that this endless  argument about a brand of beer is continuing undeterred, its like a lullaby given the circumstances please add a bit more fighting about cars and don't stop thank you.


Normality sort of


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Got to admit I find it quite amusing how much that gets under people's skin. It's not like punk hasn't been cheapened for years in about a million ways is it. If you want to hold tight to that legacy you'll already need to be pretty good at valuing the good and screening out the bad.


Crass had it right in 1978

**


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

By the way, anyone who's into beer, I heartily recommend another Scottish start-up who are making waves.

Beer 52 will send you a box of weird and wonderful beers from around the world for around 20 quid a month delivered to your door.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> By the way, anyone who's into beer, I heartily recommend another Scottish start-up who are making waves.
> 
> Beer 52 will send you a box of weird and wonderful beers from around the world for around 20 quid a month.



I hate them already.


----------



## seeformiles (Mar 19, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> i found some in a shop in islington earlier, charging £8 for perhaps 100ml



That shop may find such profiteering will come back to bite them on the arse. During the fuel blockade (2001?) a garage near us put the price of petrol to £2.50 per litre. Once it was all over everyone boycotted him and he closed 2 months later.  People never forget being stiffed - esp. at times of crisis.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

8ball said:


> I hate them already.


Me too. Bunch of Nathan Barley bastards trying to capitalise on the number of weeks in a year


----------



## 8ball (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Me too. Bunch of Nathan Barley bastards trying to capitalise on the number of weeks in a year



And they charge _monthly_ too. Which shows you how much of a fuck they really give about the 52 thing.


----------



## Big Bertha (Mar 19, 2020)

killer b said:


> In Blackpool in august there is an annual punk festival with about an 8000 capacity - a magnificent sea of balding men with mohawks. I'm not sure where they go the rest of the year.


Sit in their bedrooms and complain about things on t’internet probably


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

Big Bertha said:


> Sit in their bedrooms and complain about things on t’internet probably


I always imagine most of them have desk jobs with the local authority


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> 'Dickhead cans', 'wanker beer', and similar terms, have been in use forever, mainly by dickheads and wankers who can't abide the fact that some people have different tastes to theirs. They'll often be the same people who refer to cheap high-strength booze as "tramp juice".



Doesn't really matter what your opinion of the people who refer to dickhead cans as dickhead cans is (although I think you are wrong that it corresponds with people who also say tramp juice), it remains the case that it contradicts your wild claim about antipathy to brewdog being limited to urban75.

Brewdog are intentionally a wanky aggravating brand and therefore lots of people are aggravated by them and think they are wankers. QED.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

killer b said:


> In Blackpool in august there is an annual punk festival with about an 8000 capacity - a magnificent sea of balding men with mohawks. I'm not sure where they go the rest of the year.


Half of those will be long suffering partners dragged along to the annual beer gut festival.

There are probably more Dulwich Hamlet supporters than there are genuine old school punks left.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

8ball said:


> And they charge _monthly_ too. Which shows you how much of a fuck they really give about the 52 thing.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Half of those will be long suffering partners dragged along to the annual beer gut festival.


absolutely not, you have no idea how boring it is if you aren't into oi! punk. the non-punk wives have been stopping home since 1984. only the faithful go to blackpool.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

Btw everybody I know who uses the terms dickhead cans and wanker beer - including me - mostly quite likes the wanker beer in the dickhead cans but doesn't like all the shit that goes with it. 

Am quite partial to an overhopped IPA though even if the real ale types and purists say its shit.


----------



## klang (Mar 19, 2020)

killer b said:


> I- a magnificent sea of balding men with mohawks.


plenty of double mohawks.


----------



## klang (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> .


yes but that's just a drop in the ocean.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

I went to that rebellion thing in blackpool once btw, hated it, couldn't wait to leave. Dunno why I went, what was I expecting, silly


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 19, 2020)

8ball said:


> And they charge _monthly_ too. Which shows you how much of a fuck they really give about the 52 thing.


Not weeks in year but cards in pack minus jokers


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> I went to that rebellion thing in blackpool once btw, hated it, couldn't wait to leave. Dunno why I went, what was I expecting, silly


I've been a few times - loved it the first time when we just went for one day and there was a load of yank hardcore bands on and it was brilliant. I still found stuff to enjoy the other times I went, but the long afternoons full of dogshit oi band after dogshit oi bands before you get to the good stuff in the evening is a bit much.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Doesn't really matter what your opinion of the people who refer to dickhead cans as dickhead cans is (although I think you are wrong that it corresponds with people who also say tramp juice), it remains the case that it contradicts your wild claim about antipathy to brewdog being limited to urban75.
> 
> Brewdog are intentionally a wanky aggravating brand and therefore lots of people are aggravated by them and think they are wankers. QED.


 Nah, bollocks. Be honest, if it wasn’t for this thread would you have any strong opinion on Brewdog whatsoever other than “I wouldn’t drink there”?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Nah, bollocks. Be honest, if it wasn’t for this thread would you have any strong opinion on Brewdog whatsoever other than “I wouldn’t drink there”?



Yeah. I wasn't on here for years and hated brewdog. They are designed for most people to hate them, that's the fucking point. Separate the wheat from the cunts

Edit and most people know them as a beer in the shops not as bars btw


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

With Brewdog first promoting boozy air travel on their own shitty airline and now encouraging people to drive to their bars, at least we get to see through their PR and find out where they really stand on the environment, and it's clearly profit first, the environment a distant second.


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Yeah. I wasn't on here for years and hated brewdog. They are designed for most people to hate them, that's the fucking point. Separate the wheat from the cunts


No they're not. They employ clever marketing designed to appeal to a specific and lucrative demographic and it's clearly working and some idiots even buy into their ludicrous 'punk equity' nonsense,


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

Anyway tiny rebel are my favourite seller of overpriced dickhead cans, although I've gone off cwtch, dunno if my tastes have changed or novelty wore off or they changed it. Can't remember the last time I drank beer that wasn't either aldi/lidl fake dickhead cans or a pint of guinness


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

editor said:


> No they're not. They employ clever marketing designed to appeal to a specific and lucrative demographic and it's clearly working and some idiots even buy into their ludicrous 'punk equity' nonsense,



Yeah they're the cunts in the wheat/cunts thing


----------



## teuchter (Mar 19, 2020)

killer b said:


> It's true that pollution from vehicles kills lots of people, but tackling it is a job for regulation and legislation, not companies during an international crisis trying to eke out a few more sales before having to close all their sites indefinitely, or the people who might choose to buy stuff from them.


The kind of people who will drive to this drive thru are the kind of people who resist legislation that would stop them driving around killing children. Typical of urban75 these days to see people saying that's all fine because we need to defend capitalists like brewdog against the effects of the crisis. A crisis caused by people who fly around in planes by the way.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

Always thought you were pro brewdog teuchter


----------



## Teaboy (Mar 19, 2020)

killer b said:


> I always imagine most of them have desk jobs with the local authority



I always thought that was the goths?



Spymaster said:


> Half of those will be long suffering partners dragged along to the annual beer gut festival.
> 
> There are probably more Dulwich Hamlet supporters than there are genuine old school punks left.



I think a lot of them are dead.  Here for a good time etc...


----------



## teuchter (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Always thought you were pro brewdog teuchter


What does "pro brewdog" mean?


----------



## strung out (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Doesn't really matter what your opinion of the people who refer to dickhead cans as dickhead cans is (although I think you are wrong that it corresponds with people who also say tramp juice), it remains the case that it contradicts your wild claim about antipathy to brewdog being limited to urban75.
> 
> Brewdog are intentionally a wanky aggravating brand and therefore lots of people are aggravated by them and think they are wankers. QED.


This is true. My wife has never read this site in her life, but she only needed to see some of their adverts and watch the 'Who's the Boss?' episode on them to know they were wankers.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

teuchter said:


> The kind of people who will drive to this drive thru are the kind of people who resist legislation that would stop them driving around killing children. Typical of urban75 these days to see people saying that's all fine because we need to defend capitalists like brewdog against the effects of the crisis. A crisis caused by people who fly around in planes by the way.


I hate to pull rank on this, but it's really irritating me: my partner has a - most likely fatal - disease, almost certainly a result of living just off the most polluted road in Manchester. I'm very much aware of the significant impact pollution has on people's health and wellbeing, and think using it as a stick to beat a company trying to stay open for another few days during a significant global crisis is a bit... distasteful tbh.


----------



## strung out (Mar 19, 2020)

Also, I have a hatred of Brewdog for that time when I went to their bar in Bristol, ordered a cider off the menu and had to spend 5 minutes justifying my decision to order that instead of beer before they would let me have it. Wankers.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

teuchter said:


> What does "pro brewdog" mean?



It means in support of, as opposed to anti, like the normal meaning


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

killer b said:


> I'm very much aware of the significant impact pollution has on people's health and wellbeing, and think using it as a stick to beat a company trying to stay open for another few days during a significant global crisis is a bit... distasteful tbh.


What the fuck? Where does it say that it's a temporary measure? They'd hardly go to the expense of building apps if it's just to "stay open for another few days". 

It's a marketing gimmick which puts their profits above that of the local community, encourages people to drive in an area what is already blighted with some of the worst pollution levels in the UK - and the fact that all this is happening in an area with some of the lowest levels of car ownership in the UK just amplifies the divide and the selfishness.

There's more than one global crisis going on at the moment, but feel free to tell me why encouraging people to start driving down congested polluted streets to buy expensive beer is something to be defended.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

it's a temporary measure because they're going to be closed down by next week, like every other bar in the country.


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

killer b said:


> it's a temporary measure because they're going to be closed down by next week, like every other bar in the country.


So you're OK with Brewdog putting profit before pollution and the local community, and you're OK with them encouraging more driving in an area with some of the worst air quality because the needs of a  multi-million pound brewery override local concerns. That seems to be what you're saying, but correct me if I've got it wrong.

And presumably, you'd be OK with every other business in the street adopting this model too?


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

killer b said:


> it's a temporary measure because they're going to be closed down by next week, like every other bar in the country.


Good job they've got a multi million beer distribution business to fall back on, the poor things.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

If in a few months this is all sorted out and the bars are all open again, and brewdog carry on with their drive-through thing then I'm totally with you. For a few days to clear stock before closing for months? I think you need to find a little perspective.


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

killer b said:


> If in a few months this is all sorted out and the bars are all open again, and brewdog carry on with their drive-through thing then I'm totally with you. For a few days to clear stock before closing for months? I think you need to find a little perspective.


Really interesting seeing you turning into an apologist for multi-national in "crisis."

In my world, the air quality of my community comes first, with concerns over a temporarily dip in profits for a particularly wanky billion pound company run by twat millionaires a long, long distant second.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

ok, I'm done.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 19, 2020)

No!

*I* WANT ALL THE VIRTUE POINTS!!!


----------



## teuchter (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> It means in support of, as opposed to anti, like the normal meaning


"In support of Brewdog" has no useful meaning. 

Are you in support of water?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

teuchter said:


> "In support of Brewdog" has no useful meaning.
> 
> Are you in support of water?



Yeah. Yeah I'm pro water. Defo.


----------



## 8ball (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Yeah. Yeah I'm pro water. Defo.



Little hydrogen-bonded bastards.


----------



## Big Bertha (Mar 19, 2020)

teuchter said:


> What does "pro brewdog" mean?


I’ve had a pint in one and quite liked it and had a pint in another and thought it was a bit shit.

Does that make me pro or anti?


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

Big Bertha said:


> I’ve had a pint in one and quite liked it and had a pint in another and thought it was a bit shit.
> 
> Does that make me pro or anti?



Would you go for a third pint?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

Big Bertha said:


> I’ve had a pint in one and quite liked it and had a pint in another and thought it was a bit shit.
> 
> Does that make me pro or anti?


Have you used the "drive thru"?


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Where they _are_ being cheeky is in calling it _drive thru_ since it's nothing like most people's concept of a drive thru.



I’ve popped them an email suggesting they call it a ‘drive by’. 

I’ll keep urban posted as to their response


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 19, 2020)

8ball said:


> Little hydrogen-bonded bastards.



Now’s not the time for division comrade


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

As more fuel to the fire:
Did anyone read the "in the city" piece in last private eye about Brewdog, some interesting related party transactions were highlighted.

Apologies if this has already been mentioned - I only went back a few pages and that is all banging on about the drivethru thing


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 19, 2020)

editor said:


> Really interesting seeing you turning into an apologist for multi-national in "crisis."
> 
> In my world, the air quality of my community comes first, with concerns over a temporarily dip in profits for a particularly wanky billion pound company run by twat millionaires a long, long distant second.



Are these roads empty normally? Mine aren’t; I doubt the roads in _my_ community are full of hipsters desperate to pick up some wanky beer. 

Is there anyone driving round _your_ community for reasons other than a ‘cheeky’ IPA pick up?


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 19, 2020)

I would have thought that traffic in london right now is mostly made up of extremely stressed out people trying to rush to get and do what they need to do.


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 19, 2020)

Fucking london I now feel bad about hating it so much.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Yeah. Yeah I'm pro water. Defo.


Right. So you're cool with babies drowning in the bath, and devasting floods in developing countries.


----------



## killer b (Mar 19, 2020)

I'm not sure you can call Hebden Bridge a developing country tbf


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Right. So you're cool with babies drowning in the bath, and devasting floods in developing countries.



Don't be a silly sausage


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

MadeInBedlam said:


> Are these roads empty normally? Mine aren’t; I doubt the roads in _my_ community are full of hipsters desperate to pick up some wanky beer.
> 
> Is there anyone driving round _your_ community for reasons other than a ‘cheeky’ IPA pick up?


Coldharbour Lane is a very busy road serving busy shops, bars and restaurants. There's also a bus stop just down from Brewdog's 'drive-thru' stop off, so any app-wielding, fake punk beer requesting hipster parked outside may end up holding up passengers.


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

nick said:


> As more fuel to the fire:
> Did anyone read the "in the city" piece in last private eye about Brewdog, some interesting related party transactions were highlighted.


Please reveal all!


----------



## T & P (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Where they _are_ being cheeky is in calling it _drive thru_ since it's nothing like most people's concept of a drive thru.


This. False advertising at the least. And I suspect TFL or any local authority in charge of road management might have something to say about any company encouraging people to stop in the middle of a street to block traffic to pick up an order. The stretch of road where they are has no parking bays and there is a double yellow line so no stopping allowed right outside the premises.

A fucking absurd, misleading scheme, and very likely in breach of motoring regulations, unless I’m missing something here.


----------



## T & P (Mar 19, 2020)

editor said:


> Coldharbour Lane is a very busy road serving busy shops, bars and restaurants. There's also a bus stop just down from Brewdog's 'drive-thru' stop off, so any app-wielding, fake punk beer requesting hipster parked outside may end up holding up passengers.


See my post above. It must be in breach of traffic regulations.


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

editor said:


> Please reveal all!


may I post a scan of a copyrighted page here? (PrivateEye)


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 19, 2020)

editor said:


> Coldharbour Lane is a very busy road serving busy shops, bars and restaurants. There's also a bus stop just down from Brewdog's 'drive-thru' stop off, so any app-wielding, fake punk beer requesting hipster parked outside may end up holding up passengers.



Fair point


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 19, 2020)

nick said:


> may I post a scan of a copyrighted page here? (PrivateEye)





MadeInBedlam said:


> Fair point



What. Has. Become. Of. Us. 😮


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 19, 2020)

BeKinder75. 

Blimey!


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

Please delete if inappropriate:

Apologies for quality - I read it in the bath


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

nick said:


> may I post a scan of a copyrighted page here? (PrivateEye)


Yeah you'll be fine!


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

I'm sure I'll be fine - was more worried about you and U75
Anyway - too late now


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

nick said:


> Please delete if inappropriate:
> 
> Apologies for quality - I read it in the bath


Wow. Dodgy. As. Fuck.


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

there are more ways to get funds out of your company than salary and dividends

This seems (IMHO) relatively obfuscatory though. 
It may not be punk

enjoy


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

I didn't know you could be a plc without listing on an exchange. How are shares bought and sold? Can't get my head around it


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

no - you can't be on an exchange without being a plc

If I remember: Ltd- shares can't be offered to the public / Plc = they can
Think you also need a touch more share capital for a plc
The article mentions how they are sold - an annual swap day . Thats a new one to me

here you go  Difference between PLC and LTD - Public vs private

one of the main differences between private limited companies and public limited companies include:


public companies can offer their shares for sale to the general public
two directors are required for public companies whereas only one is needed for a private company
public companies cannot accept an undertaking to do work or perform services as consideration for allotment of shares
public companies cannot purchase their own shares out of capital
public companies must appoint a Company Secretary who is suitably qualified
public companies have six months in which to file their annual accounts as opposed to private companies which have nine months
public companies are required to hold an annual general meeting whereas this is generally not a requirement for private companies


----------



## Shechemite (Mar 19, 2020)

I’ve emailed @Spymaster’s Masonic hedge fund manager for more info on buying/selling on the market. 

Still waiting to hear more about my drive by idea


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

nick said:


> no - you can't be on an exchange without being a plc
> 
> If I remember: Ltd- shares can't be offered to the public / Plc = they can
> Think you also need a touch more share capital for a plc
> ...



Yeah ltd just means private limited - when they talk about private equity it means buying and selling unlisted private ltd companies which is risky. Plc is public limited company so its been floated and listed and shares can be traded. I don't really get how you go public without being listed on one of the exchanges, but there must be a way cos they have


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

we're straying off topic but:

*How do you change a private company to a public company?*
A private company can be re-registered as a public company, in line with Part 7 of the Companies Act 2006, by:

passing a special resolution (at least 75% of shareholder votes in favour)
delivering Form RR01 to Companies House
For further information see GOV.UK. This procedure can also be reversed.
*What are the pros and cons of going public?*
The key benefit of becoming a PLC is to be able to raise capital through selling shares to the general public. Also, going public often generates publicity, introducing a company and their products to new consumers. However, there are more rules and requirements with which public companies must comply. So, this is generally only a suitable option for fairly mature companies, with a suitably advanced infrastructure, looking to expand.


PLC / public doesn't mean its been floated - but it needs 50,000 of issued share capital (it doesn't have to have been paid up though)


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

nick said:


> Please delete if inappropriate:
> 
> Apologies for quality - I read it in the bath


Nothing _illegal_ here (on the face of it). It's loopholes being exploited, but as a business owner who doesn't do this shit, I do actually find this fucking irritating.

Cheers.


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Nothing _illegal_ here (on the face of it). It's loopholes being exploited, but as a business owner who doesn't do this shit, I do actually find this fucking irritating.
> 
> Cheers.


This


----------



## teuchter (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Don't be a silly sausage


Not going to retract your pro water stance then.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

I mean it sounds like one shareholder taking a fuck load out of the business at the expense of all the other shareholders (punks with equity) and the revenue tbf


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Not going to retract your pro water stance then.



Are you pro women? What about rose west then eh


----------



## teuchter (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Are you pro women? What about rose west then eh


Exactly. "Are you pro X or Y" is a stupid question unless it is specific.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Exactly. "Are you pro X or Y" is a stupid question unless it is specific.



Can't believe you don't like water, nature boy


----------



## BassJunkie (Mar 19, 2020)

I'm no fan of their beers, or their schtick for that matter. However until now I hadn't appreciated what unforgivable, disgusting, abhorrent, repugnant cunts they are. 

Thru? _THRU_? FFS! It's surely 'through'? Have they run out of fucking space? No more than 4 letters? Twats.


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

I quite like the beer


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

nick said:


> I quite like the beer



I fucking hate it. Hoppy fizzpiss.

But I do like the bars and the business model (ex-Watt's apparent mephitic greediness).


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 19, 2020)

Cheers for posting nick. Sounds well dodgy considering they posted a loss last year.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Cheers for posting nick. Sounds well dodgy considering they posted a loss last year.


Well it's not dodgy (depending on one's definition of dodgy - mine is 'illegal') but it's certainly a bit shit and very disappointing, if accurate.

Perhaps this is something that you and I can finally agree on.


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

I mean it is potentially illegal tbf, one of them where HMRC would have to try and demonstrate actions were deliberately taken to remunerate whatshisface without incurring the tax liability and it would come down to the court case and the judge on the day. Not that I'm accusing whatshisface of illegality, just commenting that you can't really say it is legal or illegal


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

no one is accused of not paying tax 
But it could be construed as remuneration without the Shareholders being fully aware (even though disclosed, as required, in the accounts), unless they were very sharp eyes


----------



## Proper Tidy (Mar 19, 2020)

nick said:


> no one is accused of not paying tax
> But it could be construed as remuneration without the Shareholders being fully aware (even though disclosed, as required, in the accounts), unless they were very sharp eyes



Well yeah that but also tax. Dividend can't be offset against corporation tax, payment for services can be.


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

I forgot to add: the Brewdog in Brixton is directly in front of a zebra crossing.


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

we can't hold that against them surely?


----------



## nick (Mar 19, 2020)

Proper Tidy said:


> Well yeah that but also tax. Dividend can't be offset against corporation tax, payment for services can be.


One has to assume that, wherever the money ends up it is properly accounted for to the tax authorities - allowable cost in one co is a revenue in another etc

However a couple of interesting loans through some of our more exotic dependencies can do wonders - or perhaps a licensing agreement for IP from the luxembourg offshoot


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

nick said:


> we can't hold that against them surely?


If they're promoting people driving to their bar in their polluting cars and then making them park on a zebra crossing (and potentially endanger people using the crossing) to pick their overpriced hipster beer, then it's yet another reason why they're a bunch of cunts.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2020)

nick said:


> But it could be construed as remuneration without the Shareholders being fully aware ...


This is the big one. The model is outstanding but if he's playing hideaway with the crowdfunders, Watts is in trouble.

Let's not get too carried away though just yet.

Checking it out.


----------



## belboid (Mar 19, 2020)

It’s a takeaway service with a silly name, that’s all. Call it a takeaway service and people would still drive there. As they do when it’s open as normal.  There’s not likely to be any real difference in traffic flow because of it.


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

belboid said:


> It’s a takeaway service with a silly name, that’s all. Call it a takeaway service and people would still drive there. As they do when it’s open as normal.  There’s not likely to be any real difference in traffic flow because of it.


Then why go to all the trouble of branding it a drive-thru service and building a special app if it _isn't _trying to encourage people to drive to their shitty bars?


----------



## belboid (Mar 19, 2020)

editor said:


> Then why go to all the trouble of branding it a drive-thru service and building a special app if it _isn't _trying to encourage people to drive to their shitty bars?


I can’t find any drive through app, tho the hop drop app does collection so isn’t it just that?

I agree calling it a drive through is silly, they probably think it’s dreadfully clever.  Have you asked them where people are meant to park? Or if they’re concerned about promoting illegal parking in an already crowded area?


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2020)

belboid said:


> I can’t find any drive through app, tho the hop drop app does collection so isn’t it just that?
> 
> I agree calling it a drive through is silly, they probably think it’s dreadfully clever.  Have you asked them where people are meant to park? Or if they’re concerned about promoting illegal parking in an already crowded area?


They didn't respond to my email but they're definitely trying to get people to drive to their shit bars. 


> Scottish craft Brewer BrewDog has announced today that it has launched BrewDog Drive Thru via its Hop Drop App at all BrewDog London bars including their Brixton branch, with the 30% discount for all customers. Available on IOS and Android.
> 
> Customers can now click and collect beer, food and spirits from your nearest UK BrewDog Bar, and we will bring it to your car, while you wait.
> Drive Thru is ready to go at every UK BrewDog Bar (aside from Edinburgh Airport) and features bottles, cans and draft beer fills in growlers – alongside any item from that bar’s food menu, bottles of spirits and wine, Hawkes cider and glassware.


----------



## Boudicca (Mar 24, 2020)

Brew Dog have been making hand sanitiser at its distilleries for Aberdeen Royal Infirmary's Intensive Care Unit. Not ones to miss a branding opportunity though.


----------



## Big Bertha (Mar 24, 2020)

Boudicca said:


> Brew Dog have been making hand sanitiser at its distilleries for Aberdeen Royal Infirmary's Intensive Care Unit. Not ones to miss a branding opportunity though.
> 
> 
> View attachment 203046


Can’t blame them for that.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 24, 2020)

Boudicca said:


> Brew Dog have been making hand sanitiser at its distilleries for Aberdeen Royal Infirmary's Intensive Care Unit. Not ones to miss a branding opportunity though.
> 
> 
> View attachment 203046


I reckon that given that it actually costing them money to produce and distribute the stuff, they can be allowed a bit of branding.


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2020)

Big Bertha said:


> Can’t blame them for that.


Probably balance out nicely in terms of positive PR.


----------



## Big Bertha (Mar 24, 2020)

editor said:


> Probably balance out nicely in terms of positive PR.


Absolutely


----------



## Cerv (Mar 24, 2020)

do the actual bottles look like that or is it just a mock up for the press?
that’s going to be an interesting souvenir I guess


----------



## editor (Mar 24, 2020)

Cerv said:


> do the actual bottles look like that or is it just a mock up for the press?
> that’s going to be an interesting souvenir I guess


They're thanking the designers for ensuring that their selfless act goes well branded while ensuring that the press coverage keeps on coming. They're like those people who raise a relatively tiny sum for some charity or another and get a massive cardboard cheque made and invite the press over for the ceremony.


----------



## steveseagull (Mar 25, 2020)

Branding wise, i am going to let this one slide


----------



## Flavour (Apr 2, 2020)

Not going so well for Brewgel either








						First batch of BrewDog hand sanitiser turned down by local hospital
					

Brewer could reformulate ‘punk sanitiser’ after hand gel falls short of medical standards




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## teuchter (Apr 2, 2020)

_



			
				nhs grampian said:
			
		


			This has been a really successful collaboration with the BrewDog team and we look forward to getting the gel fully operational in health and care settings right across Grampian.  We at no time ‘rejected’ the offer, we instead chose to work together on finding a solution.
		
Click to expand...

_


----------



## alex_ (Apr 2, 2020)

Flavour said:


> Not going so well for Brewgel either
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that’s stuck one up at the establishment, finally they do something punk !


----------



## editor (Apr 2, 2020)

Thank heavens they're getting their PR company to keep pushing out these positive updates so absolutely everyone gets to hear about their selfless giving.


----------



## teuchter (May 27, 2020)

BARNARD CASTLE EYE TEST BEER
					

You may have seen Barnard Castle Eye Test in headlines, on social media or even in Labour Leader Keir Starmer’s hand. This was a dry-hopped beer with a juicy hit of pineapple, mango and a hint of lime that broke our website for 10 hours due to de...




					www.brewdog.com


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

teuchter said:


> BARNARD CASTLE EYE TEST BEER
> 
> 
> You may have seen Barnard Castle Eye Test in headlines, on social media or even in Labour Leader Keir Starmer’s hand. This was a dry-hopped beer with a juicy hit of pineapple, mango and a hint of lime that broke our website for 10 hours due to de...
> ...


Saw that this morning!

Absolutely outstanding


----------



## belboid (May 27, 2020)

Shame the actual beer sounds vile


----------



## Teaboy (May 27, 2020)

Yeah, not sure I want pineapple and mango flavours in my beer, fortunately its probably just 'tasting notes' bollocks.  Anyway, who cares?  How strong is it?


----------



## teuchter (May 27, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Saw that this morning!
> 
> Absolutely outstanding



All the profits go towards products for the protection of NHS Heroes so I'm pretty sure everyone is going to be very positive about this, even on here. Probably a turning point in many people's judgement of this company.


----------



## editor (May 27, 2020)

More brilliant PR to promote the brand and increase overall sales.


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

teuchter said:


> All the profits go towards products for the protection of NHS Heroes so I'm pretty sure everyone is going to be very positive about this, even on here. Probably a turning point in many people's judgement of this company.


 Anything otherwise would be churlish and outrageous in the extreme!


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

belboid said:


> Shame the actual beer sounds vile


It's alright, even good, if you like that kind of thing.

I find most of it over-hopped, as seems to be the current fashion, but euro-fizzpiss drinkers would probably like it fine.


----------



## teuchter (May 27, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Anything otherwise would be churlish and outrageous in the extreme!


Anyone criticising brewdog on this occasion will be outing themselves as a Cummings apologist.


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Anyone criticising brewdog on this occasion will be outing themselves as a Cummings apologist.


Positively condoning his actions and those of Boris in steadfastly supporting him.


----------



## teuchter (May 27, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Positively condoning his actions and those of Boris in steadfastly supporting him.


In fact anyone not proactively praising this brewdog move will be showing their support for boris, the government and at least 60,000 deaths. 

You can tell a lot from normally vocal people's silence on these things.


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

teuchter said:


> In fact anyone not proactively praising this brewdog move will be showing their support for boris, the government and at least 60,000 deaths.
> 
> You can tell a lot from normally vocal people's silence on these things.


Any such person would be displaying a massive agenda bias and demonstrating that they are not to be taken seriously.


----------



## teuchter (May 27, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Any such person would be displaying a massive agenda bias and demonstrating that they are not to be taken seriously.


I think those kinds of apologists need to be taken very seriously, unfortunately. Before it's too late


----------



## Teaboy (May 27, 2020)

Chill out and have a pint or two of punk, lads.  This double act needs a lot of fine tuning.


----------



## killer b (May 27, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> This double act needs a lot of fine tuning.


From tiny acorns, mighty oaks grow. Imagine - we might be witnessing the birth of our generation's Hale & Pace.


----------



## 8ball (May 27, 2020)

I think you should merge double-acts and go for a Mary Whitehouse Experience style thing.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 27, 2020)

editor said:


> More brilliant PR to promote the brand and increase overall sales.


Yeah. They should be doing their best to go bust.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 27, 2020)

Mrs SI likes these fancy IPAs with citrus and zesty hoppiness. Horrible stuff if you ask me.


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Yeah. They should be doing their best to go bust.


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Mrs SI likes these fancy IPAs with citrus and zesty hoppiness. Horrible stuff if you ask me.


British beer has been going down that route generally for 2 or 3 years. I don't want my beer to taste of grapefruit thanks


----------



## editor (May 27, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Yeah. They should be doing their best to go bust.


Excellent use of the straw man fallacy. Textbook stuff!



> A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man


----------



## chilango (May 27, 2020)

killer b said:


> From tiny acorns, mighty oaks grow. Imagine - we might be witnessing the birth of our generation's Hale & Pace.



Weren't Hale & Pace our generation's Hale & Pace?


----------



## 8ball (May 27, 2020)

editor said:


> Excellent use of the straw man fallacy. Textbook stuff!



Ejumucation - been lernin' a book.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 27, 2020)

editor said:


> Excellent use of the straw man fallacy. Textbook stuff!


It was a joke, like on the internet


----------



## editor (May 27, 2020)

S☼I said:


> It was a joke, like on the internet


Oh, right


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 27, 2020)

Hang on, did you really think I was making a serious point?


----------



## editor (May 27, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Hang on, did you really think I was making a serious point?


Have you not read the rest of this thread?


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

S☼I said:


> It was a joke, like on the internet


You actually made a perfectly reasonable point.


----------



## T & P (May 27, 2020)

If Brewdog invented tomororw a cure for Coronavirus, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that some fault with it would somehow be found in this forum


----------



## belboid (May 27, 2020)

T & P said:


> If Brewdog invented tomororw a cure for Coronavirus, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that some fault with it would somehow be found in this forum


the fuckers would flavour it with pineapple and stick a picture of Robert Smith on (without paying the photographer)


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

T & P said:


> If Brewdog invented tomororw a cure for Coronavirus, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that some fault with it would somehow be found in this forum


Sod coronavirus, if they cured cancer, it'd be a marketing ploy!


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 27, 2020)

editor said:


> Have you not read the rest of this thread?


No. Must I? Why?


----------



## editor (May 27, 2020)

T & P said:


> If Brewdog invented tomororw a cure for Coronavirus, I have absolutely no doubt whatsoever that some fault with it would somehow be found in this forum


There's a likely scenario for you.


----------



## editor (May 27, 2020)

Sad to see the same handful of individuals doing their best to trash a thread with a stream of irrelevant/off-topic/disruptive posts because it carries an opinion they don't like.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 27, 2020)

editor said:


> Sad to see the same handful of individuals doing their best to trash a thread with a stream of irrelevant/off-topic/disruptive posts because it carries an opinion they don't like.


Like your patronising strawman definition?

Fucks sake, this place is built on pisstaking and opposing views and wild veerings from the topic, that's not trashing anything!

My original point, jokey as it was, was that of course it's a marketing device. That's what businesses do. You're agen it cos you don't like Brewdog, but what do you expect?

Businesses try and make money, sometimes opportunistically. Truism klaxon


----------



## 8ball (May 27, 2020)

editor said:


> Sad to see the same handful of individuals doing their best to trash a thread with a stream of irrelevant/off-topic/disruptive posts because it carries an opinion they don't like.





editor said:


> Oh, right


----------



## rekil (May 27, 2020)

We need to talk about the fairy liquid baby.


----------



## teuchter (May 27, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Like your patronising strawman definition?
> 
> Fucks sake, this place is built on pisstaking and opposing views and wild veerings from the topic, that's not trashing anything!
> 
> ...


Joking aside though - can you clarify which side you are on? Are you for Brewdog, the NHS and honest hardworking families, or are you for Dominic Cummings, the establishment, the virus and widespread death?


----------



## 8ball (May 27, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Joking aside though - can you clarify which side you are on? Are you for Brewdog, the NHS and honest hardworking families, or are you for Dominic Cummings, the establishment, the virus, editor and widespread death?



FFY


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 27, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Joking aside though - can you clarify which side you are on? Are you for Brewdog, the NHS and honest hardworking families, or are you for Dominic Cummings, the establishment, the virus and widespread death?


I'm on the side of the angels.

I don't like Brewdog much but only cos it tastes shit

San Miguel in the fridge, Aldi wine on the worktop


----------



## T & P (May 27, 2020)

S☼I said:


> I'm on the side of the angels.
> 
> I don't like Brewdog much but only cos it tastes shit
> 
> San Miguel in the fridge, Aldi wine on the worktop


FYI, San Miguel is currently on offer on Waitrose- at least it was yesterday. About 1.70something for a big bottle.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 27, 2020)

T & P said:


> FYI, San Miguel is currently on offer on Waitrose- at least it was yesterday. About 1.70something for a big bottle.


Cheers.
No Waitrose where I live. It's £1.48 in the Aldi round the corner though


----------



## T & P (May 27, 2020)

Ohhh....
_heads off to Streatham Aldi_


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 27, 2020)

T & P said:


> Ohhh....
> _heads off to Streatham Aldi_


I don't know if the fact I live in the North makes any difference


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 27, 2020)

My Aldi has loads of little tins of designer IPAs, Mrs SI has tried them all. There's one called Klute which has great packaging


----------



## Spymaster (May 27, 2020)

S☼I said:


> I don't like Brewdog much but only cos it tastes shit
> 
> San Miguel in the fridge ...


To me that's a choice between a beer that tastes horrible and a beer that tastes of nothing in particular. Proper beer is flavoursome, not fizzy, and needs to be pumped out of casks.

Got to admire Brewdog's business model, workers conditions and success though.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2020)

surprised no one's posted this on this thread

they may be a bunch of bastards but at least they've a sense of humour


----------



## Numbers (May 29, 2020)

I pre-ordered a case of that, it'll be available in a cpl of weeks.


----------



## editor (May 29, 2020)

"Fiercely defiant" 

Shame they couldn't put as much effort into looking after their employees and making sure they're happy at work, what with all the fat profits they're pocketing. Still, it's all punk rock maaaaaan!






						Working at Brewdog: 70 Brewdog Reviews | Indeed.com
					

70 reviews from Brewdog employees about Brewdog culture, salaries, benefits, work-life balance, management, job security, and more.




					www.indeed.co.uk
				











						BrewDog Reviews
					

292 BrewDog reviews. A free inside look at company reviews and salaries posted anonymously by employees.




					www.glassdoor.co.uk


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 29, 2020)

I don't get why you're still moaning about them seven years after this thread was posted

Is it cos punk belongs to you and you object to it being used to sell stuff? This just in: punk records were sold like this in 1976, the outsider trope is older still


----------



## editor (May 29, 2020)

S☼I said:


> I don't get why you're still moaning about them seven years after this thread was posted
> 
> Is it cos punk belongs to you and you object to it being used to sell stuff? This just in: punk records were sold like this in 1976, the outsider trope is older still


I didn't realise that it had become unfashionable to criticise corporate companies here. Enjoy your punk rock beer.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 29, 2020)

editor said:


> I didn't realise that it had become unfashionable to criticise corporate companies here. Enjoy your punk rock beer.


No, it's always fine, I just genuinely wondered what made this particular one stick in your craw so much you keep revisiting it to vent

I don't drink it by the way, it's overpriced shite


----------



## teuchter (May 29, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> surprised no one's posted this on this thread
> View attachment 215246
> they may be a bunch of bastards but at least they've a sense of humour


It's unbelievably surprising no-one's posted it yet.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 29, 2020)

teuchter said:


> It's unbelievably surprising no-one's posted it yet.


i think you'll find it's 'no one'


----------



## editor (May 29, 2020)

S☼I said:


> No, it's always fine, I just genuinely wondered what made this particular one stick in your craw so much you keep revisiting it to vent
> 
> I don't drink it by the way, it's overpriced shite


I'm not a fan of aggressively expanding multi-national corporates at the best of times, and like them even less when they fraudulently trade off the punk ethos and use clever PR to make out they're some sort of anti-establishment rebels fighting The Man.

And while they keep up such laughable faux-rebel antics, I'll see fit to keep on criticising them and calling them out over their latest hollow PR 'philanthropic' wheezes that seem to easily sucker some people. I'm sorry that it seems to upset you or you think that they should be given some sort of free pass when they cynically exploit circumstances to spread brand awareness.  

Equity for punks my fucking arse.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 29, 2020)

editor said:


> I'm not a fan of aggressively expanding multi-national corporates at the best of times, and like them even less when they fraudulently trade off the punk ethos and use clever PR to make out they're some sort of anti-establishment rebels fighting The Man.
> 
> And while they keep up such laughable faux-rebel antics, I'll see fit to keep on criticising them and calling them out over their latest hollow PR 'philanthropic' wheezes that seem to easily sucker some people. I'm sorry that it seems to upset you or you think that they should be given some sort of free pass when they cynically exploit circumstances to spread brand awareness.
> 
> Equity for punks my fucking arse.


In no way have I argued any such things, Captain Strawman

I felt quite annoyed when New Order did the Mars advert a few years ago; it felt like I'd personally been cheated out of something, and it's this notion of something personal to you being exploited that understandably winds people up. I expect nobody has the energy be pissed off at all advertising, despite it all being presumably exploitative in some way, from presenting imaginary ideals you feel you want to aspire to to fear of missing out, etc.

It's interesting, is all. Products have to be sold; how far is too far when it comes to getting a message out there? Are meerkat experts irritated by "simples"?


----------



## kenny g (May 29, 2020)

S☼I said:


> In no way have I argued any such things, Captain Strawman
> 
> I felt quite annoyed when New Order did the Mars advert a few years ago; it felt like I'd personally been cheated out of something, and it's this notion of something personal to you being exploited that understandably winds people up. I expect nobody has the energy be pissed off at all advertising, despite it all being presumably exploitative in some way, from presenting imaginary ideals you feel you want to aspire to to fear of missing out, etc.
> 
> It's interesting, is all. Products have to be sold; how far is too far when it comes to getting a message out there? Are meerkat experts irritated by "simples"?


Look son. Brews hit are not welcome. We do not want them. Their faux punk over priced poison in a can deserves everything it receives. Grapefruit IPA.


----------



## kenny g (May 29, 2020)

Aldi £1 a can for quality craft beers with no bollocks. Even st austell proper job for 1.50 IPA. Brew dog is over priced hyped wank.


----------



## kenny g (May 29, 2020)

Editor has spent 7 years arguing the point because nothing has proven him wrong.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 29, 2020)

I've literally said so - dad


----------



## killer b (May 29, 2020)

Is calling people 'son' the mark of an irredeemable dickhead? I've only got a few data points, but it's starting to look like that


----------



## kenny g (May 29, 2020)

killer b said:


> Is calling people 'son' the mark of an irredeemable dickhead? I've only got a few data points, but it's starting to look like that


I do apologise sonny.


----------



## teuchter (May 29, 2020)

kenny g said:


> Aldi £1 a can for quality craft beers with no bollocks. Even st austell proper job for 1.50 IPA. Brew dog is over priced hyped wank.


How much free hand sanitiser have Aldi or St Austell provided for the NHS?


----------



## discobastard (May 29, 2020)

kenny g said:


> Their faux punk over priced poison in a can deserves everything it receives.



What, like massive global sales worldwide?  I guess it does.

Why is it poison in a can?  It tastes much like the Aldi £1 stuff.


----------



## kenny g (May 29, 2020)

As a front line worker I am far more appreciative of cheap quality beer than fucking hand sanitizer. Soap and hot water and decent beer ( or scrumpy cider) with sunshine and significant exercise is worth more than piss and sanitizer.


----------



## discobastard (May 29, 2020)

They seem to be doing more than a lot of UK big businesses - supporting communities and NHS workers.  









						BUSINESS AS A FORCE FOR GOOD
					

This is how we are showing that business can be a force for good through Covid-19.




					www.brewdog.com


----------



## Spymaster (May 29, 2020)

I must be missing something but the vast majority of those employee reviews posted above are absolutely glowing about Brewdog. 'Great company to work for' seems to be a recurring comment.


----------



## Teaboy (May 29, 2020)

Their pubs are a bit shit mind.


----------



## kenny g (May 29, 2020)

discobastard said:


> What, like massive global sales worldwide?  I guess it does.
> 
> Why is it poison in a can?  It tastes much like the Aldi £1 stuff.


And they all crawl out! The Aldi 99p option has a depth brew dog will never have.


----------



## Spymaster (May 29, 2020)

kenny g said:


> Editor has spent 7 years arguing the point because nothing has proven him wrong.


Except pretty much every criticism of them!


----------



## discobastard (May 29, 2020)

kenny g said:


> As a front line worker I am far more appreciative of cheap quality beer than fucking hand sanitizer. Soap and hot water and decent beer ( or scrumpy cider) with sunshine and significant exercise is worth more than piss and sanitizer.


They are doing a 50% discount on all beer delivery orders for NHS workers.


----------



## kenny g (May 29, 2020)

discobastard said:


> They are doing a 50% discount on all beer delivery orders for NHS workers.


I stand corrected. If I were NHS I would not allow their product to pass my portal whatever the cost.


----------



## discobastard (May 29, 2020)

kenny g said:


> And they all crawl out! The Aldi 99p option has a depth brew dog will never have.


I don't drink anymore but I've had plenty Brewdog beers and plenty Aldi beers and I can guarantee the Aldi stuff is in no way significantly better.  They are all pretty decent tbh.  Their Ghost Dance pale ale is made by Black Sheep.


----------



## discobastard (May 29, 2020)

kenny g said:


> I stand corrected. If I were NHS I would not allow their product to pass my portal whatever the cost.


Why not?  Genuinely interested.


----------



## discobastard (May 29, 2020)

kenny g said:


> And they all crawl out! The Aldi 99p option has a depth brew dog will never have.


If you buy a box of 8 from the Co-op the Brewdog beers come out at £1.18 btw.


----------



## teuchter (May 29, 2020)

They continue to be the only company who manage to get a non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything into either of my two closest supermarkets.

Not all of us are privileged enough to live close to an Aldi, or other fancy beer shop, and have to make do with what is available, a concept probably alien to some of the contributors on here.

I'll have a Nanny State or two in a bit, and be proud to be supporting the NHS (Scotland).


----------



## tommers (May 29, 2020)

This thread is so fucking weird.


----------



## tommers (May 29, 2020)




----------



## kenny g (May 29, 2020)

teuchter said:


> *Not all of us are privileged enough to live close to an Aldi*, or other fancy beer shop,



I have a waitrose and an Aldi within walking distance so I have to recognise that privilege. Fortunately it allows me to compare beers on a regular basis.

The last time I purchased a brewed dog was at xmas when Morissons in Stratford (London) had what appeared to be a special offer. Meandering home clutching 8 cans of what was termed "Elvis Juice" at a price which I recall was less than I tenner  I held them for the special day.

Despite avoiding the turkey my stomach took a turn for the worst come five o'clock as 8 cans of fizzy but alcoholic pop swirled within me. Clutching my side I lay down and absorbed the certain knowledge that only days earlier I "had been had" by the Scottish alt-punk destroyers. For what was within me was shite. The flavour had little back taste and the ultimate test of any beer, the palatability that allows consumption in excess was non existent. This was pop with punk.


----------



## discobastard (May 29, 2020)

kenny g said:


> I have a waitrose and an Aldi within walking distance so I have to recognise that privilege. Fortunately it allows me to compare beers on a regular basis.
> 
> The last time I purchased a brewed dog was at xmas when Morissons in Stratford (London) had what appeared to be a special offer. Meandering home clutching 8 cans of what was termed "Elvis Juice" at a price which I recall was less than I tenner  I held them for the special day.
> 
> Despite avoiding the turkey my stomach took a turn for the worst come five o'clock as 8 cans of fizzy but alcoholic pop swirled within me. Clutching my side I lay down and absorbed the certain knowledge that only days earlier I "had been had" by the Scottish alt-punk destroyers. For what was within me was shite. The flavour had little back taste and the ultimate test of any beer, the palatability that allows consumption in excess was non existent. This was pop with punk.


A truly tragic tale...

If you want a grapefruit IPA then Magic Rock Highwire Grapefruit is your friend.


----------



## T & P (May 29, 2020)

tommers said:


> This thread is so fucking weird.


Welcome to Urban75


----------



## The Pale King (May 29, 2020)

editor said:


> "Fiercely defiant"
> 
> Shame they couldn't put as much effort into looking after their employees and making sure they're happy at work, what with all the fat profits they're pocketing. Still, it's all punk rock maaaaaan!
> 
> ...



Thanks for posting - these are revealing (well, confirming tbh)


----------



## kenny g (May 30, 2020)

discobastard said:


> I don't drink anymore but I've had plenty Brewdog beers and plenty Aldi beers and I can guarantee the Aldi stuff is in no way significantly better.  They are all pretty decent tbh.  Their Ghost Dance pale ale is made by Black Sheep.


indeed it is Ghost Dance Ale

Pleased that my taste buds had been drawn to a quality brew. Some of their slightly less expensive ones aren't too bad either.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2020)

kenny g said:


> indeed it is Ghost Dance Ale
> 
> Pleased that my taste buds had been drawn to a quality brew. Some of their slightly less expensive ones aren't too bad either.


Just over a quid a can too. Much more like it.


----------



## Steel Icarus (May 30, 2020)

editor said:


> Just over a quid a can too. Much more like it.


Mrs SI's favourite I think


----------



## badseed (May 31, 2020)

I love that this thread is still going. The two BD twats will never be able redeem themselves in the eyes of the post-lydonites for using the word Punk.
Can we all pick on Green Day instead?


----------



## editor (May 31, 2020)

badseed said:


> I love that this thread is still going. The two BD twats will never be able redeem themselves in the eyes of the post-lydonites for using the word Punk.
> Can we all pick on Green Day instead?


It's not just about them using the word 'punk' though, is it?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 1, 2020)

If it was just about their misappropriation of the word 'punk' this thread would have died out long ago.


----------



## badseed (Jun 2, 2020)

Of course it's not just about them using the word Punk.
At the same time, there are references to them using the work Punk all through this thread. People posting you tube videos of "Part Time Punks", calling them cod-punk, saying we "They mean it maaan" even a link to Lydon's butter ad.

If their flagship beer had been a red ale called "Simply Red" with the same offensive marketing everyone would have agreed that they were a couple of twats, their whole tiresome "we are oh so controversial" frat boy routine would have been derided for a couple of pages and then the thread would have died.

But instead they chose the sacred cow of Punk and we have 63 pages of the gospel according to Crass.
What even is Punk in 2020, it has been commodified since the end of the 70's.

Even Iggy wants to sell you insurance.


----------



## editor (Jun 2, 2020)

badseed said:


> Of course it's not just about them using the word Punk.
> At the same time, there are references to them using the work Punk all through this thread. People posting you tube videos of "Part Time Punks", calling them cod-punk, saying we "They mean it maaan" even a link to Lydon's butter ad.
> 
> If their flagship beer had been a red ale called "Simply Red" with the same offensive marketing everyone would have agreed that they were a couple of twats, their whole tiresome "we are oh so controversial" frat boy routine would have been derided for a couple of pages and then the thread would have died.
> ...


Really not sure why people bring up what Lydon did nearly half a century after punk or why Iggy Pop is even being mentioned, but I'd say most people have a decent grasp of what the punk ethic and ideals represent, both then and now.

And aggressively expanding, multi-national, billion dollar businesses part owned by U.S. private equity firms rarely come under the umbrella of what people view as 'punk.'

Maybe that doesn't bother you, but it clearly bothers some people, hence this long thread which no one is making you read or contribute to.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2020)

The term "punk" doesn't belong to anyone. You've got to really try hard to take exception to its use in this case. It’s like pretending to take offence at Go Compare for exploiting meerkats.


----------



## gentlegreen (Jun 2, 2020)

Apparently there's a Bristol company that makes gin - and more recently, hand sanitiser - Bristolians may wince that they've apparently got one product labelled "Turbo Island" ...
By all accounts this tweet didn't stay up long...


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2020)

gentlegreen said:


> Apparently there's a Bristol company that makes gin - and more recently, hand sanitiser - Bristolians may wince that they've apparently got one product labelled "Turbo Island" ...
> By all accounts this tweet didn't stay up long...
> 
> View attachment 215827



That is particularly dickish, especially showing a drink on fire. Because you just know that a bunch of drunk people will start trying flaming shots...


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 3, 2020)

Suspect that when I'm next in central Bristol in 'normal times',  I'll have to focus on *beer*  , not gin, in The Crown Inn and/or The Beer Emporium !! 

And far better ale-friendly pubs than both of those are available in BS1 anyway .....


----------



## discobastard (Jun 3, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> That is particularly dickish, especially showing a drink on fire. Because you just know that a bunch of drunk people will start trying flaming shots...


It got people talking about them which is the whole point.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2020)

discobastard said:


> It got people talking about them which is the whole point.



Not always a good thing, as Gerald Ratner would agree.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 3, 2020)

belboid said:


> Shame the actual beer sounds vile



This is the main problem with all their wacky schemes. Well, it's actually a pretty minor problem compared to some of the shit they do. If their beer was good I still wouldn't drink it.


----------



## discobastard (Jun 3, 2020)

8ball said:


> Not always a good thing, as Gerald Ratner would agree.


Things were very different back in those days and it made headline news - this is forgotten about already.  And gin is gin, so, idiotic though the comment was, I doubt it will do them any harm.

ETA - actually looks like they have taken a severe kicking - so maybe it will do them harm.  Deserved as well as it was a fucking stupid post.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 3, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> That is particularly dickish, especially showing a drink on fire. Because you just know that a bunch of drunk people will start trying flaming shots...


few people will do it twice.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 3, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> That is particularly dickish, especially showing a drink on fire. Because you just know that a bunch of drunk people will start trying flaming shots...



Yeah. Because they don't do that anyway, do they? 

If you're the kind of dickhead who downs drinks when they're on fire, you're the kind of dickhead who downs drinks on fire.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 3, 2020)

8ball said:


> Not always a good thing, as Gerald Ratner would agree.


That's rather different. Ratner's fuck up wasn't an advertising campaign. It was him getting caught out sneering at his entire customer base. He'd have caused less brand damage if he was caught noncing.

As it happens, that Bristol Gin tweet (if genuine) is quite stupid but not for the reasons above. The main problem is that it associates the brand with a political slogan and situation. Unless you're doing a political campaign, that's a top 10 no no, in "Marketing 101". Brewdog picking out Castle Barnard wasn't the best idea in the world for the same reason. It was very funny though.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> That's rather different. Ratner's fuck up wasn't an advertising campaign. It was him getting caught out sneering at his entire customer base. He'd have caused less brand damage if he was caught noncing.
> 
> As it happens, that Bristol Gin tweet (if genuine) is quite stupid but not for the reasons above. The main problem is that it associates the brand with a political slogan and situation. Unless you're doing a political campaign, that's a top 10 no no, in "Marketing 101". Brewdog picking out Castle Barnard was the best idea in the world for the same reason. It was very funny though.



It's a very uneconomical Molotov in any case.


----------



## discobastard (Jun 3, 2020)

Contrition!


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 3, 2020)

discobastard said:


> Contrition!


Dominic Cummings could learn from that.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 3, 2020)

discobastard said:


> Contrition!



Party parrot has been unavailable for comment.


----------



## belboid (Jun 3, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> That's rather different. Ratner's fuck up wasn't an advertising campaign. It was him getting caught out sneering at his entire customer base. He'd have caused less brand damage if he was caught noncing.
> 
> As it happens, that Bristol Gin tweet (if genuine) is quite stupid but not for the reasons above. The main problem is that it associates the brand with a political slogan and situation. Unless you're doing a political campaign, that's a top 10 no no, in "Marketing 101". Brewdog picking out Castle Barnard wasn't the best idea in the world for the same reason. It was very funny though.


Naah, Brewdog works because almost everyone thinks Cummings was a twat, it’s marketed at people who like to think they’re a bit rebellious and because it was actually funny.  The gin company can’t claim any of those things.  And even if it had been funny, it would have been totally ducking inappropriate.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 3, 2020)

discobastard said:


> Contrition!


Looks like the bloke with the brain woke up this morning.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 3, 2020)

belboid said:


> Naah, Brewdog works because almost everyone thinks Cummings was a twat ...


Yes. I actually edited my post to say this but 8ball quoted the original so I changed it back.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 3, 2020)

Really good piece on Brewdog here that explains exactly how they have played the haters to become one of the most successful companies in the UK and one of the industry's most sought after employers. 

This thread could have been planned by their marketing department.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 3, 2020)

I still have an inkling they're financially a Carillion style house of cards.  I have nothing to back it up just a feeling from the industry they are in to the way they have expanded and the characters involved.

I'm probably wrong but I've been in business long enough to smell a bit of a rat.


----------



## Big Bertha (Jun 3, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Really good piece on Brewdog here that explains exactly how they have played the haters to become one of the most successful companies in the UK and one of the industry's most sought after employers.
> 
> This thread could have been planned by their marketing department.


Maybe it was....????....???


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 3, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> I still have an inkling they're financially a Carillion style house of cards.  I have nothing to back it up just a feeling from the industry they are in to the way they have expanded and the characters involved.
> 
> I'm probably wrong but I've been in business long enough to smell a bit of a rat.



At least they actually sell something - that probably makes them more stable than a lot of current fast-growing companies.


----------



## Teaboy (Jun 3, 2020)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> At least they actually sell something - that probably makes them more stable than a lot of current fast-growing companies.



Yes but all that means is they'll have a lot of capital tied up in ingredients and stock.  It also means they need much larger premises.  Much easier to be some sort of agent that way your only major overhead is your staff.


----------



## belboid (Jun 3, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Really good piece on Brewdog here that explains exactly how they have played the haters to become one of the most successful companies in the UK and one of the industry's most sought after employers.
> 
> This thread could have been planned by their marketing department.


Benetton, innit?


----------



## marty21 (Jun 3, 2020)

kenny g said:


> I have a waitrose and an Aldi within walking distance so I have to recognise that privilege. Fortunately it allows me to compare beers on a regular basis.
> 
> The last time I purchased a brewed dog was at xmas when Morissons in Stratford (London) had what appeared to be a special offer. Meandering home clutching 8 cans of what was termed "Elvis Juice" at a price which I recall was less than I tenner  I held them for the special day.
> 
> Despite avoiding the turkey my stomach took a turn for the worst come five o'clock as 8 cans of fizzy but alcoholic pop swirled within me. Clutching my side I lay down and absorbed the certain knowledge that only days earlier I "had been had" by the Scottish alt-punk destroyers. For what was within me was shite. The flavour had little back taste and the ultimate test of any beer, the palatability that allows consumption in excess was non existent. This was pop with punk.


They sell Elvis Juice in my corner shop, it is lovely -


----------



## kenny g (Jun 3, 2020)

marty21 said:


> They sell Elvis Juice in my corner shop, it is lovely -



Pleased you like it.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 3, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Really good piece on Brewdog here that explains exactly how they have played the haters to become one of the most successful companies in the UK and one of the industry's most sought after employers.
> 
> This thread could have been planned by their marketing department.



I hope people immediately notice that this Brewdog Guardian Long Read was from March 2016.

Plus I linked to it here myself a zillion pages back in this thread, probably a couple of days or so after the article was originally published.

Just saying, like


----------



## discobastard (Jun 9, 2020)

discobastard said:


> They seem to be doing more than a lot of UK big businesses - supporting communities and NHS workers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Another Brewdog initiative - supporting independent bars and other businesses in re-opening.  









						BrewDog launches Kickstart Collective to support independent bars
					

Any independent bar, pub or bottle shop can apply to be part of the BrewDog Kickstart Collective, which is being formed to help independent outlets navigate the challenges of re-opening.




					foodanddrink.scotsman.com


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 6, 2020)




----------



## 8ball (Jul 6, 2020)

Say what you like about Starmer, he has better hair than Corbyn.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 6, 2020)

So they'll give an independent bar £250 of free stock, would that go very far? I note they will also give each member of staff a discount card for Brewdog bars so they will recoup that £250 and more pretty quickly.


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> So they'll give an independent bar £250 of free stock, would that go very far? I note they will also give each member of staff a discount card for Brewdog bars so they will recoup that £250 and more pretty quickly.


It's just PR generating tokenism that has an infinitely small impact on their vast profits but is scooped up wholesale by Brewdog fanboys and 'punk equity' shareholders. In fact, the publicity generated probably tips them into more profit so they can buy themselves another jet for their shitty airline to make pointless, wasteful transatlantic jaunts.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 6, 2020)

Just picked up on Starmer visiting Brewdog from the Keir Starmer thread 

I said there that he could easily have picked a different brewery, but whatever .....


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 6, 2020)

PR generating tokenism?

Anyone would think they're a business rather than a charity!


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 6, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> I note they will also give each member of staff a discount card for Brewdog bars so they will recoup that £250 and more pretty quickly.


Yes, and they're going to torture them with thumbscrews until they use them.


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 6, 2020)

William of Walworth said:


> I hope people immediately notice that this Brewdog Guardian Long Read was from March 2016.
> 
> Plus I linked to it here myself a zillion pages back in this thread, probably a couple of days or so after the article was originally published.
> 
> Just saying, like



Guardian Brewdog long read posters? I prefer their early stuff! 👍


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 6, 2020)

isvicthere? : Good pisstake  

I never have time to read the long reads now though (and that one was 2016!) ..... 

These days, I'm far too too busy drinking better beer than Brewdog's


----------



## isvicthere? (Jul 11, 2020)

William of Walworth said:


> isvicthere? : Good pisstake
> 
> I never have time to read the long reads now though (and that one was 2016!) .....
> 
> These days, I'm far too too busy drinking better beer than Brewdog's



I noticed Brewdog yesterday in my local supermarket (Murcia, Spain). 👎


----------



## badseed (Jul 23, 2020)

discobastard said:


> Another Brewdog initiative - supporting independent bars and other businesses in re-opening.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They also donate hundreds of thousands to startup breweries each year and promote and pay their own staff a living wage.
Seems nice. They said Punk though.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2020)

badseed said:


> They also donate hundreds of thousands to startup breweries each year and promote and pay their own staff a living wage.
> Seems nice. They said Punk though.


Forgive me if the cynic in me feels that the profit-boosting PR benefits to themselves far outweigh their actual community contribution here:



> The fund will initially be open to the first 500 applicants that will receive the following support from the brewer:
> 
> £250 of BrewDog beer to help with the restocking of their venue before reopening.
> 
> ...


----------



## 8ball (Jul 23, 2020)

badseed said:


> They also donate hundreds of thousands to startup breweries each year and promote and pay their own staff a living wage.



How very dare they!


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 23, 2020)

As I've said before on this thread it's almost like businesses are in it for the money. Do Maccies give a tin fuck if you eat a salad or about planting trees? Think Amazon genuinely cares about the NAACP?


----------



## tommers (Jul 23, 2020)

this thread made me thirsty so I just bought 48 cans of Punk IPA.  You can get it delivered from their website.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 23, 2020)

tommers said:


> this thread made me thirsty so I just bought 48 cans of Punk IPA.  You can get it delivered from their website.


I bet you had to pay for it, didn't you? Not very punk of them


----------



## Teaboy (Jul 23, 2020)

Tiny little fun sized cans do not quench a thirst.


----------



## tommers (Jul 23, 2020)

S☼I said:


> I bet you had to pay for it, didn't you? Not very punk of them



I tried but they insisted that I should volunteer some time bringing down the fascist state instead.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 23, 2020)

tommers said:


> this thread made me thirsty so I just bought 48 cans of Punk IPA.  You can get it delivered from their website.



I was going to but thanks to this thread I know they're a bunch of corporate scumbags, so I bought a case of Carling instead.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 23, 2020)

This thread actually led to me spending the money I previously spent on brewdog beer on blood diamonds instead and they last longer and have much better resale value too so it's a win-win both for me and ethics in general as far as I can see.


----------



## Big Bertha (Jul 23, 2020)

8ball said:


> How very dare they!


They are the definition of scum.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 23, 2020)

look at all the edgy bootlicking hilarious gang!!


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Tiny little fun sized cans do not quench a thirst.


Yeah but they're 100% hipster and toytown punk approved. Big up the corporate multi-national 'rebels'!


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 23, 2020)

editor said:


> Yeah but they're 100% hipster and toytown punk approved. Big up the corporate multi-national 'rebels'!


I'm still not sure what you're crossest about - Brewdog's appropriation of "punk" or the existence of corporations. Cos it looks to me more like the former


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2020)

S☼I said:


> I'm still not sure what you're crossest about - Brewdog's appropriation of "punk" or the existence of corporations. Cos it looks to me more like the former


Or perhaps it's about a company blending the two together, throwing in a bit of sexism and other dodgy practices while continuing to sucker people with the most piss weak of PR gestures.

Perhaps you've forgotten, but this site is set up on completely opposing principles, ethics and morals, so it's hardly a huge surprise that I'm not going to join in with the Punk Equity loving gang here and start applauding their money-raking bullshit.


----------



## Marty1 (Jul 23, 2020)

tommers said:


> this thread made me thirsty so I just bought 48 cans of Punk IPA.  You can get it delivered from their website.



My dad was drinking this stuff on Sunday when we were round theirs - he gave us a couple of cold ones out the fridge and I’ve got to say it’s very nice stuff and gives you the ‘beer buzz’ soon enough.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> My dad was drinking this stuff on Sunday when we were round theirs - he gave us a couple of cold ones out the fridge and I’ve got to say it’s very nice stuff and gives you the ‘beer buzz’ soon enough.


That's really fantastic. I'm so happy you got that beer buzz from drinking beer. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 23, 2020)

ddraig said:


> look at all the edgy bootlicking hilarious gang!!



Maybe words aren't really the right medium for you.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2020)

8ball said:


> Maybe words aren't really the right medium for you.


I understood exactly what he meant.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 23, 2020)

editor said:


> I understood exactly what he meant.



People swear they know exactly what their hamsters are thinking too.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 23, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Tiny little fun sized cans do not quench a thirst.


48 of the buggers probably would though.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2020)

8ball said:


> People swear they know exactly what their hamsters are thinking too.


Who do? And what has that got to do with my statement?


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> 48 of the buggers probably would though.


That's the idea!


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 23, 2020)

8ball said:


> People swear they know exactly what their hamsters are thinking too.


----------



## tommers (Jul 23, 2020)

editor said:


> I understood exactly what he meant.



What was the "bootlicking" bit about?


----------



## tommers (Jul 23, 2020)

editor said:


> That's the idea!



I don't get this either.  Sorry.  Have I spent too much money or something?


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2020)

tommers said:


> What was the "bootlicking" bit about?


Why are you asking me? I didn't say it, I just said I understood what he meant, but that doesn't mean I should be expected to then explain it to anyone who asks.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2020)

tommers said:


> I don't get this either.  Sorry.  Have I spent too much money or something?


I thought it was extremely straightforward if you were following the thread. Tiny cans + big hipster price = shitloads of money to 'quench a thirst.'


----------



## cyril_smear (Jul 23, 2020)

I'd rather buy a dirt cheap bottle of 7.5 cider or a medium bottle of wine from thasda. At least you know they are just taking the pissing out of you.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 23, 2020)

editor said:


> I thought it was extremely straightforward if you were following the thread. Tiny cans + big hipster price = shitloads of money to 'quench a thirst.'


I could get 12 cans for 12 quid the other week in Asda. Bargain!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 23, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> 48 of the buggers probably would though.


You'd still be thirsty in the morning


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 23, 2020)

Serious question.

Who would you consider worse in the corporate scheme of things:

Brewdog: who sell "hipster" beer, use the term "punk" and fucked up with a bit of sexist advertising once, or ...

... Huawei: racist employer and deployer of global spyware and commercial espionage resulting in billions of dollars of IP theft; in the pocket of a government currently involved in an internal genocide. Allegedly?

Take your time folks!


----------



## Marty1 (Jul 23, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Serious question.
> 
> Who would you consider worse in the corporate scheme of things:
> 
> ...



Or - do Brewdog beast their workers under the gig economy exploitation model whilst the CEO trundles along to become the worlds first trillionaire?


----------



## tommers (Jul 23, 2020)

editor said:


> I thought it was extremely straightforward if you were following the thread. Tiny cans + big hipster price = shitloads of money to 'quench a thirst.'



They were just over a quid each!


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I could get 12 cans for 12 quid the other week in Asda. Bargain!


12 tiny cans for £12 doesn't seem so much of a bargain to me!


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2020)

tommers said:


> They were just over a quid each!


Fantastic! You can be punky and edgy as you imbibe! ROCK'N'ROLL!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 23, 2020)

editor said:


> 12 tiny cans for £12 doesn't seem so much of a bargain to me!


Quid a can for a decent tasting beer is fine by me...


----------



## tommers (Jul 23, 2020)

editor said:


> Fantastic! You can be punky and edgy as you imbibe! ROCK'N'ROLL!
> 
> View attachment 223420
> 
> View attachment 223419



I think we should probably leave it at that cos I'm feeling a bit weirded out.


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

tommers said:


> I think we should probably leave it at that cos I'm feeling a bit weirded out.


You know they're the Brewdog owners, right?


----------



## tommers (Jul 24, 2020)

They've obviously been sat in my front room drinking with me before.  

The opportunity to shout at the telly, the opportunity to listen to Dolly Parton at top volume, the opportunity to pass out and then wake up really confused at 2am and stagger up to bed.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 24, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Quid a can for a decent tasting beer is fine by me...


Nobody could seriously have a problem with that.

It's other things!


----------



## pesh (Jul 24, 2020)

A quid for a 500ml can is fair enough, a quid for 330ml is a cunts trick. I don't really have a problem with it though because its minging.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2020)

pesh said:


> A quid for a 500ml can is fair enough, a quid for 330ml is a cunts trick. I don't really have a problem with it though because its minging.


it's a while since i bought a can of pop but a coke (say) can't be far off a quid for 330 ml these days

as you say, bd is minging and so even 50p for one might be a bit high


----------



## 8ball (Jul 24, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Nobody could seriously have a problem with that.



No one does.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 24, 2020)

When I drink beer it's 660ml of San Miguel for £1.48 (reduced from £1.49).


----------



## 8ball (Jul 24, 2020)

S☼I said:


> When I drink beer it's 660ml of San Miguel for £1.48 (reduced from £1.49).



It's £1.50 at my local Co op.


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> It's £1.50 at my local Co op.


Must be the punk version.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 24, 2020)

editor said:


> Must be the punk version.



1p to the old punks' benevolent fund.


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> 1p to the old punks' benevolent fund.


Much needed to keep that all-important 'edge' intact.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 24, 2020)

editor said:


> Much needed to keep that all-important 'edge' intact.



What, San Miguel?


----------



## campanula (Jul 24, 2020)

My supermarket tipple has been Hobgoblin Gold for ages. Perfectly drinkable (and the IPA is nice too)...but selling ar £1.25 for a 500ml bottle (and often for only £1) is a completely acceptable, afterwork glug.
I can't quite get on with tinnies though, even though they are always £4 for 4.


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

campanula said:


> My supermarket tipple has been Hobgoblin Gold for ages. Perfectly drinkable (and the IPA is nice too)...but selling ar £1.25 for a 500ml bottle (and often for only £1) is a completely acceptable, afterwork glug.


That Hobgoblin Gold is lovely stuff!


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> What, San Miguel?


Punk tax to help the upkeep up of the vital Brewdog plane.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 24, 2020)

editor said:


> Punk tax to help the upkeep up of the vital Brewdog plane.



I’m not sure San Miguel will be contributing to that.


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> I’m not sure San Miguel will be contributing to that.


They need to look edgy too so it's probably worth it for the PR.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 24, 2020)

Biff's and BrewDog join forces to create 'UK’s biggest vegan food delivery brand'
					

Vegan ‘junk’ food brand Biff’s has joined forces with BrewDog to create what it says is the UK’s biggest vegan delivery brand.




					www.bighospitality.co.uk
				




Great to see Brewdog thoroughly exploiting the vegan market. you have to hand it to these guys, they know how to make money. If there’s a fad-wagon to jump on, they’re on it


----------



## teuchter (Jul 24, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Biff's and BrewDog join forces to create 'UK’s biggest vegan food delivery brand'
> 
> 
> Vegan ‘junk’ food brand Biff’s has joined forces with BrewDog to create what it says is the UK’s biggest vegan delivery brand.
> ...


I think this means that anyone who said that their half-vegan burger a while ago was a stepping stone towards embracing full veganism and that vegans should have been happy about it, was completely right. Is this correct?


----------



## Marty1 (Jul 24, 2020)

teuchter said:


> I think this means that anyone who said that their half-vegan burger a while ago was a stepping stone towards embracing full veganism and that vegans should have been happy about it, was completely right. Is this correct?



What’s a half-vegan burger?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 24, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> What’s a half-vegan burger?


a burger only semi-composed of vegan material


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> What’s a half-vegan burger?


A cheap PR marketing stunt that seemed to work wonders amongst the more gullible.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 24, 2020)

editor said:


> A cheap PR marketing stunt that seemed to work wonders amongst the more gullible.



Any good?


----------



## teuchter (Jul 24, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> What’s a half-vegan burger?


It's just like a village where half of the residents are atheists but some people got in a flap about it because they said something can't be partially composed from something that excludes something that is included in other parts.


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> Any good?


Seemed to work an absolute treat amongst the big Brewdog 'punk' fans here and elsewhere. They lapped it up. Doubt if any were actually vegan or even particularly interested, though.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 24, 2020)

I often eat partially vegan burgers. In fact quite a lot of what I eat is partially vegan


----------



## 8ball (Jul 24, 2020)

S☼I said:


> I often eat partially vegan burgers. In fact quite a lot of what I eat is partially vegan



Quite a lot of what I eat is _entirely_ vegan! 

I find it's good for PR.


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

S☼I said:


> I often eat partially vegan burgers. In fact quite a lot of what I eat is partially vegan


That's wonderful to hear.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 24, 2020)

Hang in, Hobgoblin is owned by huge company Marston's, who are not known for a common ethos with or even employing any hobgoblins whatsoever


----------



## 8ball (Jul 24, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Hang in, Hobgoblin is owned by huge company Marston's, who are not known for a common ethos with or even employing any hobgoblins whatsoever



I'm unsure whether Brewdog employs any dogs.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> I'm unsure whether Brewdog employs any dogs.


It does brew though, which makes it 50% real whereas hobgoblin drinkers are 100% inauthentic.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> I'm unsure whether Brewdog employs any dogs.



no you've misunderstood. they don't imply dogs they _brew dogs_. as in use the canine as an ingredient along with hops, etc.
that accounts for the taste of their Elvis Juice IPA


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 24, 2020)

Cerv said:


> no you've misunderstood. they don't imply dogs they _brew dogs_. as in use the canine as an ingredient along with hops, etc.
> that accounts for the taste of their Elvis Juice IPA


Nah, you're thinking of Carling Bark Label or German Shepherd Neame


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 24, 2020)

Labbott Ale


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 24, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> What’s a half-vegan burger?


The bun.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 24, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> The bun.



Unless it's a brioche bun, which sounds like the sort of thing Brewdog might do.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jul 24, 2020)

editor said:


> That Hobgoblin Gold is lovely stuff!


It is, but I kinda ran out of enthusiasm for it due to being gifted several cases after doing the sound for a live broadcast Halloween event they did a couple of years back. It was all I drank for months afterwards


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 24, 2020)

I never really got along with Hobgoblin. Big fan of McEwan's Champion though, that's strong af and tastes it


----------



## 8ball (Jul 24, 2020)

S☼I said:


> I never really got along with Hobgoblin. Big fan of McEwan's Champion though, that's strong af and tastes it



That 'strong' taste can get a bit wearing after more than a couple, I find.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jul 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> That 'strong' taste can get a bit wearing after more than a couple, I find.


Yes, but I rarely have more than a couple of beers these days before moving onto wine otherwise I'm up in the night


----------



## tommers (Jul 24, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Yes, but I rarely have more than a couple of beers these days before moving onto wine otherwise I'm up in the night



DJing?


----------



## tommers (Jul 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> Quite a lot of what I eat is _entirely_ vegan!
> 
> I find it's good for PR.



I'm very conscious of your brand.


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> Unless it's a brioche bun, which sounds like the sort of thing Brewdog might do.


Half of it would be dripped in punky lard and the other half, like, totally vegan.


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

tommers said:


> DJing?


Nobody wants DJ any more.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 24, 2020)

8ball said:


> Any good?


----------



## Marty1 (Jul 24, 2020)

teuchter said:


> It's just like a village where half of the residents are atheists but some people got in a flap about it because they said something can't be partially composed from something that excludes something that is included in other parts.



And how does that translate to a burger?

It contains some meat?


----------



## tommers (Jul 24, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> And how does that translate to a burger?
> 
> It contains some meat?



Yeah, i think it contained less meat than a normal burger and the other half was soy or quorn or something.


----------



## Marty1 (Jul 24, 2020)

tommers said:


> Yeah, i think it contained less meat than a normal burger and the other half was soy or quorn or something.



I’d give it a try if it was quorn with some real meat but not if it contained soy.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 24, 2020)

teuchter said:


> I think this means that anyone who said that their half-vegan burger a while ago was a stepping stone towards embracing full veganism and that vegans should have been happy about it, was completely right. Is this correct?


Totally. Any genuine vegans would be singing Brewdog's praises for this.


----------



## editor (Jul 24, 2020)

Interesting insider story here: 



> The stunts began to become more tiresome (dropping stuffed 'fat cats' on the Square Mile to draw attention to a new share offer, for example), and it became clear that the 'punk' BrewDog was espousing was more in the realm of Malcolm McLaren rabble-rousing than the collectivist DIY ethos that I leaned towards.
> 
> Then, in the last few months, things really started to go sour: friends complained on social media about being asked to leave BrewDog in Glasgow because of their attire: they were punks, and dressed as such.
> 
> ...











						A BrewDog investor's tale: How the 'punk' dream faded to be replaced with wads of cash from chaos
					

INSIDER EXCLUSIVE: For Jamie Thomson backing BrewDog was an act of solidarity for a 'punk' brother thumbing their nose at 'snotty' established brands. But as the Ellon-based firm's power rose so disillusionment set in... until last week's money-spinning deal with TSG Consumer Partners




					www.insider.co.uk


----------



## tommers (Aug 13, 2020)

Trash Can Punk
					

Due to print ready processes, minimum run sizes, errors in production and errors in forecasting, almost a billion perfectly good cans never get used and are wasted every single year. We are saving these cans and helping them fulfil their life's purpose at BrewDog. Their uniform doesn't quite...




					www.brewdog.com
				




Now they're recycling cans that would have otherwise have gone to waste. Is there no end to their thirst for good publicity?


----------



## ddraig (Aug 13, 2020)

tommers said:


> Trash Can Punk
> 
> 
> Due to print ready processes, minimum run sizes, errors in production and errors in forecasting, almost a billion perfectly good cans never get used and are wasted every single year. We are saving these cans and helping them fulfil their life's purpose at BrewDog. Their uniform doesn't quite...
> ...


recycling in 2020?!?!?  give em a fucking medal


----------



## tommers (Aug 13, 2020)

ddraig said:


> recycling in 2020?!?!?  give em a fucking medal



What about homeless dogs? Any good? 









						BrewDog supports homeless dogs with limited-edition IPA
					

Scottish craft brewer BrewDog has launched a new limited-edition Punk IPA in partnership with two UK dog charities, as it aims to secure more homes for canines.




					www.foodbev.com


----------



## MickiQ (Aug 13, 2020)

Aluminium is inifinitely recyclable, any cans that are not used can simply be melted down again and made into new cans, this strikes me as save a few bob by not having to print their own cans and pretend its for the environment.


----------



## tommers (Aug 13, 2020)

MickiQ said:


> Aluminium is inifinitely recyclable, any cans that are not used can simply be melted down again and made into new cans, this strikes me as save a few bob by not having to print their own cans and pretend its for the environment.



What about the homeless dogs?

Also, i guess they miss out on the "melted down again" bit by just sticking new labels on.


----------



## Cerv (Aug 13, 2020)

they're buying up surplus cans from other breweries but sticking their own IPA's label over for the mandatory contents info.
or am I missing something more exciting?


----------



## teuchter (Aug 13, 2020)

tommers said:


> What about the homeless dogs?
> 
> Also, i guess they miss out on the "melted down again" bit by just sticking new labels on.


People on here actually want to hasten climate catastrophe by using huge amounts of energy to melt down cans when it's not necessary, just to stop Brewdog being able to say they've done something positive for the environment.

Anyone sensible reading this thread can see who the real monsters are, I think.


----------



## tommers (Aug 13, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Anyone sensible reading this thread can see who the real monsters are, I think.



Don't forget about the homeless dogs too.


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2020)

tommers said:


> Don't forget about the homeless dogs too.


So beautiful. So selfless. Such unheralded and publicity-shy generosity must make a truly enormous dent in their profits.


----------



## tommers (Aug 13, 2020)

Not even homeless dogs can do it.


----------



## editor (Aug 13, 2020)

tommers said:


> Not even homeless dogs can do it.


Well they're certainly doing an excellent job of producing positive viral publicity for an absolutely microscopic outlay. You're doing the company proud!

WOOF and KERRRRRCHING!


----------



## Winot (Aug 19, 2020)




----------



## Brixton Hatter (Aug 19, 2020)

Nice trolling by Aldi


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 19, 2020)

Nice marketing for Brewdog too.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 19, 2020)

Winot said:


>



Excellent, will pick some up this weekend


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 19, 2020)

Aldi are amusing with their shamelessness.  This one makes me laugh:



Anyone for a can of Fauxnenbourg?


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Excellent, will pick some up this weekend


Much better choice!


----------



## stolinski (Aug 19, 2020)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Nice trolling by Aldi


wow that's genius, i'll have to try it


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 20, 2020)




----------



## T & P (Aug 20, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


>


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 20, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


>




Comedy or narked?

Reads a bit passive aggressive to me... "friends"

Still, top marks for yaldi.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 20, 2020)

narked!


----------



## teuchter (Aug 20, 2020)

Why would they be narked?


----------



## spitfire (Aug 20, 2020)

Nah, not narked, brands love this stuff. 

Twitter loves it, they all get traction, all get to look like they're great guys and "human", game for a laugh etc.


----------



## ddraig (Aug 20, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Why would they be narked?


Why wouldn't they? the fuckers tried to copy write "punk" ffs
It's all about them, their brand and market share


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 20, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Why would they be narked?


Indeed. Handed a marketing strategy on a plate for free.

I'm sure they're narked to fuck. Not!


----------



## T & P (Aug 20, 2020)

If anything it's poetic justice (Brewdog's response that is). I love the likes of Lidl and Aldi, but they and some of the other supermarkets have a long history of nicking the look and packaging design of just about any product, from booze to butter to cheese, that happens to be popular at the time. To the point where it reeks of as much desperation as of shamelessness. The interesting bit will be if Aldi will respond in any way, or agree to sell this beer at their stores for that matter.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 20, 2020)

The “beer” probably only exists in photoshop. It’s just marketing/PR. Everyone wins from their POV.


----------



## spitfire (Aug 20, 2020)

T & P said:


> If anything it's poetic justice (Brewdog's response that is). I've love the likes of Lidl and Aldi, but they and some of the other supermarkets have a long history of nicking the look and packaging design of just about any product, from booze to butter to cheese, that happens to be popular at the time. To the point where it reeks of as much desperation as of shamelessness. The interesting bit will be if Aldi will respond in any way, or agree to sell this beer at their stores for that matter.



M&S by far the worst for this. 

I attended a food exhibition last year with my product and 3 women stopped to ask questions and took a photo.  The guy I was sub letting space off said they were from M&S and to expect to see them copy the product within 6 months. They’re absolutely notorious


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 20, 2020)

T & P said:


> If anything it's poetic justice (Brewdog's response that is). I've love the likes of Lidl and Aldi, but they and some of the other supermarkets have a long history of nicking the look and packaging design of just about any product, from booze to butter to cheese, that happens to be popular at the time. To the point where it reeks of as much desperation as of shamelessness. The interesting bit will be if Aldi will respond in any way, or agree to sell this beer at their stores for that matter.


It's also hilarious to see all these anti-corporate warriors cheering-on 50 BILLION EURO giant Aldi over comparatively tiny Brewdog, all because ..._ punk!_


----------



## teuchter (Aug 20, 2020)

It's like some people who went to some parties in Spain when they were younger, getting all worked up about the Ford Fiesta.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 21, 2020)

spitfire said:


> M&S by far the worst for this.
> 
> I attended a food exhibition last year with my product and 3 women stopped to ask questions and took a photo.  The guy I was sub letting space off said they were from M&S and to expect to see them copy the product within 6 months. They’re absolutely notorious


Did M&S copy it in the end?


----------



## shambler (Aug 21, 2020)

Aldi are probably cunts but I couldn't give a shit if they nick the odd bit of branding. To be fair to them, they regularly stock genuinely local beers from small-ish breweries.

Brewdog are evidently tossers, but some perspective here - they're hardly the first to rip off a punk aesthetic. It's not worth the energy to think about. Shit marketing aside, the main thing they're guilty of is charging ridiculous prices for their beer. The beer is decent IMO.

In other wanky ale news, a load of the larger "craft" outfits, apparently including Darkstar and the omnipresent Beavertown (founded by Robert Plant's son), have successfully lobbied for the removal of 'Small Breweries Relief' - a tax assistance scheme for actual small brewers. (Link: UK government to change duty rules for craft breweries )

Basically, the hipster-beer industry seems to attract a lot of twats. The perfect hedge-fund enterprise?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

shambler said:


> Brewdog are evidently tossers, but some perspective here - they're hardly the first to rip off a punk aesthetic. It's not worth the energy to think about. Shit marketing aside, the main thing they're guilty of is charging ridiculous prices for their beer. The beer is decent IMO.



I disagree. The best things about BD is that they are superbly conceived, funded, and marketed; they do a decent bit of grub, and annoy the right people. 

Not a fan of their beer though.


----------



## spitfire (Aug 21, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Did M&S copy it in the end?



Not yet. 

(It is pretty tricky and expensive to make though).


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 21, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Indeed. Handed a marketing strategy on a plate for free.
> 
> I'm sure they're narked to fuck. Not!



I'm not so sure.  Sometimes marketing gets a bit self-impressed with marketing for marketing sake.  Good marketing is important but ultimately it should always be linked to one thing, how many units will this sell?  Whether that be short, medium or long term.  I see a lot of bad marketing out there by agencies who are actually advertising themselves and their abilities / creativity rather than the product their client is trying to sell.

Obviously this isn't a planned campaign but if I was working in sales for Brewdog I would see a customer of mine launching an exact replica of my product.  A product that will sit on shelves along side my own and with a notably lower price point.  I would know that Aldi's customer base is firmly wedded to the idea of buying own branded products for less over paying a premium for a brand.  I would also recognise that Aldi is a mature brand in themselves now so by launching this beer they are not creating a new market for my product, the only way Aldi can increase sales is by opening new stores or launching new own brand lines.

I simply cannot see how this will increase sales of my product in Aldi.  The far more likely scenario is that it will take sales from Punk IPA, otherwise why launch it?  So, if I'm losing sales in Aldi will this free marketing make up for it with people buying more Punk IPA in Tesco?  I don't see how.

The only people who will see this are already fully aware of Brewdog and Punk IPA.  The only real outcome of this is less unit sales, something that rarely bothers marketing people but bothers the rest of us a lot.  Of course Brewdog know they are shameless with their marketing so they have to laugh along with the joke, publicly anyway. Whilst it won't be a big deal for them I suspect their sales department are hardly high fiveing each other in celebration of this great free marketing.  I wouldn't be.


----------



## stolinski (Aug 21, 2020)

lol at the brewdog response, it's just great advertising for everyone. i tried the aldi "anti-establishment" beer the other day, it's not bad.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2020)

ddraig said:


> Why wouldn't they? the fuckers tried to copy write "punk" ffs
> It's all about them, their brand and market share



it's wicked to mock the afflicted


----------



## teuchter (Aug 21, 2020)

The type of people who want to buy Brewdog beer aren't going to accidentally buy an Aldi rip-off. They probably aren't going to be in Aldi in the first place.

I don't see it's going to lose them any sales.

However they can have a bit of a laugh and generate some publicity and get a bit of discussion like there is on this thread.

Although they will deny it, the hardline monomaniacs on this thread will have had their hearts softened a little by seeing Brewdog's good humoured approach to this and other things. They'll deny it because of the macho culture they are part of on here but I bet that secretly they've been checking out a few Brewdog products recently and are probably a bit confilcted about the fact they quite liked them.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> The type of people who want to buy Brewdog beer aren't going to accidentally buy an Aldi rip-off. They probably aren't going to be in Aldi in the first place.
> 
> I don't see it's going to lose them any sales.
> 
> ...


when you say 'the hardline monomaniacs' do you mean among others editor?

but there are no monomaniacs here. no one posts solely or even mainly about the unspeakable brewdog. it is very like you tho to make out that people with strong opinions on this subject have mental health issues. you ought to catch yourself on.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> The type of people who want to buy Brewdog beer aren't going to accidentally buy an Aldi rip-off. They probably aren't going to be in Aldi in the first place.



Aldi sell brewdog.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Aldi sell brewdog.


teuchter's the sort of person who doesn't go into aldi and rather looks down on the people who do.


----------



## tommers (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> The type of people who want to buy Brewdog beer aren't going to accidentally buy an Aldi rip-off. They probably aren't going to be in Aldi in the first place.



Went to Lidl yesterday and have Brewdog arriving in the next hour. 

Quite tempted by Aldi rip off but it's probably the same price tbf.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> The type of people who want to buy Brewdog beer aren't going to accidentally buy an Aldi rip-off. They probably aren't going to be in Aldi in the first place.
> 
> I don't see it's going to lose them any sales.
> 
> ...


I don't drink so no, haven't been checking out Brewdog products.

They're not good humoured, they're cunts. Good humoured people wouldn't try to bully small businesses because they operate in the same space.


----------



## stolinski (Aug 21, 2020)

Whilst in Aldi buying "Anti-establishment" after reading about it here, I saw Brewgooders lager. The plot thickens! This is the product of some plan to sell lager and donate 100% of the profits to providing clean water (mission statement) ... and the relevant thing for this thread is that it's brewed at Brewdog facilities ...


----------



## teuchter (Aug 21, 2020)

As I predicted, widespread denial.


----------



## stolinski (Aug 21, 2020)

tommers said:


> it's probably the same price tbf.


i think it was £1.19 a can at aldi


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> I don't drink so no, haven't been checking out Brewdog products.
> 
> They're not good humoured, they're cunts. Good humoured people wouldn't try to bully small businesses because they operate in the same space.


LOL!

How totally naive.

No bullying going on at Aldi, of course. Aldi admits to bullying young trainees


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> As I predicted, widespread denial.





teuchter said:


> The type of people who want to buy Brewdog beer aren't going to accidentally buy an Aldi rip-off. They probably aren't going to be in Aldi in the first place.
> 
> I don't see it's going to lose them any sales.
> 
> ...


you didn't predict 'widespread denial'. you predicted that 'the hardline monomaniacs on this thread' would deny 'brewdog's good-humoured approach' 'because of the macho culture they are part of on here'.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> you didn't predict 'widespread denial'. you predicted that 'the hardline monomaniacs on this thread' would deny 'brewdog's good-humoured approach' 'because of the macho culture they are part of on here'.


I think his point is proven!


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I think his point is proven!


yeh. but on friday afternoon, when you've cracked open the wine, you have all the critical faculties of a leprous slug.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 21, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> you didn't predict 'widespread denial'. you predicted that 'the hardline monomaniacs on this thread' would deny 'brewdog's good-humoured approach' 'because of the macho culture they are part of on here'.


I didn't realise I was part of the macho culture


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> I didn't realise I was part of the macho culture


nor, no doubt, did you know you were a hardline monomaniac.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 21, 2020)

Funny how it always goes when you suggest certain people are behaving in a certain way, without naming any names.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 21, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> nor, no doubt, did you know you were a hardline monomaniac.


I did not. Truly that was a revelation.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 21, 2020)

lulz at spy decrying a macho culture.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> lulz at spy decrying a macho culture.


That was Chookers, but you must admit he has a point with regards to this thread.


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 21, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> That was Chookers, but you must admit he has a point with regards to this thread.



Dunno.  I've not really been paying attention.  I only came here to badmouth marketing as a profession.  For some reason though I do fancy a pint of Punk right now.  Maybe I should be less hard on PR types.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Funny how it always goes when you suggest certain people are behaving in a certain way, without naming any names.



who could you mean by 'hardline monomaniacs' but the poster who has commented most frequently and most firmly on this thread? not sure how editor will take to being considered part of a macho culture, mind you.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> Dunno.  I've not really been paying attention.  I only came here to badmouth marketing as a profession.  For some reason though I do fancy a pint of Punk right now.  Maybe I should be less hard on PR types.



Loads of Brewdog vouchers here if you're quick.






						BrewDog Vouchers 50% Off - January 2023
					

Save today: 50% Off with BrewDog Vouchers.Choose from 5 tested and verified BrewDog Discount Codes for January 2023.




					www.groupon.co.uk


----------



## not-bono-ever (Aug 21, 2020)

Punk is so  dead


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 21, 2020)

Who did you mean then teuchter when you said 'hardline monomaniacs on this thread'?


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 21, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Who did you mean then teuchter when you said 'hardline monomaniacs on this thread'?



I don't know how to emphasize this enough, but I _really_ wouldn't bother.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 21, 2020)

not-bono-ever said:


> Punk is so  dead



On the contrary, it's twice as Punk as it was before: Double Punk 4 x Can


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 21, 2020)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> On the contrary, it's twice as Punk as it was before: Double Punk 4 x Can



Good job to.  Far too weak before.

ETA: Hang on.  That's not double the strength yet they call it Double Punk.  Is there anything these spivs won't lie about?


----------



## teuchter (Aug 21, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> who could you mean by 'hardline monomaniacs' but the poster who has commented most frequently and most firmly on this thread? not sure how editor will take to being considered part of a macho culture, mind you.


You might be interested in nothing more than stirring up trouble but I'm here for a reasoned and thoughtful debate.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 21, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> I don't know how to emphasize this enough, but I _really_ wouldn't bother.


And that just lets him spout whatever bullshit he wants, because he knows he won't be challenged on it. So I've challenged him as has Pickman's model . If he doesn't answer that says more about him than it does me.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 21, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Who did you mean then teuchter when you said 'hardline monomaniacs on this thread'?


It seems like you just want to stir up trouble too. 

This whole thread should be binned. It's been taken over by people who don't want to discuss the issues in an adult way.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> It seems like you just want to stir up trouble too.
> 
> This whole thread should be binned. It's been taken over by people who don't want to discuss the issues in an adult way.


Oh fuck off.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)




----------



## Teaboy (Aug 21, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> And that just lets him spout whatever bullshit he wants, because he knows he won't be challenged on it. So I've challenged him as has Pickman's model . If he doesn't answer that says more about him than it does me.



He's just on a wind-up.  This is how he spends his time.  I think he's a surveyor or NHBC inspector maybe building control or something equally tedious so I wouldn't be too hard on him.



teuchter said:


> It seems like you just want to stir up trouble too.
> 
> This whole thread should be binned. It's been taken over by people who don't want to discuss the issues in an adult way.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 21, 2020)

I thought NCP parking attendant Teaboy.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> You might be interested in nothing more than stirring up trouble but I'm here for a reasoned and thoughtful debate.


two lies in one short post


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 21, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> I thought NCP parking attendant Teaboy.



Nothing that interesting.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 21, 2020)

I bet it wouldn't go down well if those brewdog guys got all snobby and looked down their noses at the "boring" kind of people who do low paid jobs like parking attendants and made them part of a joke to put in their marketing and that. I wonder if the brewdog guys feel all superior and think that their jobs are super fascinating and not just carrying out 'tedious' tasks like building regulations inspectors do, tasks that protect millions of people's safety every day.

Urban75 gets more snooty every day.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> It seems like you just want to stir up trouble too.
> 
> This whole thread should be binned. It's been taken over by people who don't want to discuss the issues in an adult way.


Lay out the issues in an adult way then


----------



## brogdale (Aug 21, 2020)

All brewers are tories; I prefer the ones that are, at least, open about that fact.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2020)

brogdale said:


> All brewers are tories; I prefer the ones that are, at least, open about that fact.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 21, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


>


Saw an old, legacy Watneys' Red Barrel sign in the Elephant & Castle shopping centre on last NYE; outside one of the Romanian cafes, I think.


----------



## klang (Aug 21, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


>


_In the case of Yemen, the workers were under pressure for a long time already, but the last brewery manager, the West German Eckhardt Zitzmann, was still optimistic in 1990 that the company will continue to work. He even was sure that the non-alcoholic beverage would diminish some of the opposition against the National Brewing Company. In the then communist South of Yemen, where during the Cold War the Russians sent their ‘specialists’ for various reasons, the vodka was also known, but did not get too much popularity. The production of Seera beer was not only a source of lust – even though the bottles were sold as discretely as possible, including by small openings in the walls that could not be seen easily. The factory was producing around 50,000 Hectolitres pro year, for local consumption and, where possible, export in the area. _


----------



## Teaboy (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> I bet it wouldn't go down well if those brewdog guys got all snobby and looked down their noses at the "boring" kind of people who do low paid jobs like parking attendants and made them part of a joke to put in their marketing and that. I wonder if the brewdog guys feel all superior and think that their jobs are super fascinating and not just carrying out 'tedious' tasks like building regulations inspectors do, tasks that protect millions of people's safety every day.
> 
> Urban75 gets more snooty every day.





Ha.  One has landed at long last.

Actually, I can see why you do it now it is quite fun.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 21, 2020)

Nobody's looking down on such jobs teuchter just that you're not interesting to do it. My own job consists largely of paperwork and emails so clearly I pine for excitement.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> ... just that you're not interesting to do it.


What does this mean?


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2020)

They're a $2 billion dollar business now. 








						The New Beer Barons: How Two Scottish Kids Turned Wild Flavors, Crowdfunding And Plenty Of Attitude Into A $2 Billion Business
					

James Watt and Martin Dickie built a multinational $2 billion beer empire from a Scottish shed. To survive, they are pivoting toward higher margin, beer-centric businesses.




					www.forbes.com


----------



## salem (Aug 21, 2020)

Good on their PR team for the aldi can, I almost raised a smile and that's praise indeed for Brewdog PR guff.



teuchter said:


> This whole thread should be binned. It's been taken over by people who don't want to discuss the issues in an adult way.


We're not here to discuss 'issues' in an adult way. We're here to call out a bunch of cunts when they act like cunts and keep a nice record of their cuntiness in one place. We're doing them a service in that respect.


----------



## T & P (Aug 21, 2020)

As a slight derail, it’s funny how some corporations take an absurdly overzealous approach to any alleged similarities between their brands and other brands, even when the other party doesn’t even compete with them in what they sell, while others don’t bother when they would have a much stronger case.

Apple are currently suing a husband and wife’s food blog because their website has a pear as its logo Apple deems to be too similar to theirs. One of the most absurd claims ever made. Meanwhile many supermarkets launch own brand products far more closely resembling successful brand products and get away with it.

I’m sure Brewdog will neither be that bothered nor negatively affected by Aldi’s ‘tribute’ beer. But I’m surprised the owners of I Can’t Believe it’s not Butter let so many copycat brands to emerge.




Surely they couldn’t possibly not win any copyright infringement libel claim they made against any of the above chancers?


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2020)

T & P said:


> As a slight derail, it’s funny how some corporations take an absurdly overzealous approach to any alleged similarities between their brands and other brands, even when the other party doesn’t even compete with them in what they sell, while others don’t bother when they would have a much stronger case.
> 
> Apple are currently suing a husband and wife’s food blog because their website has a pear as its logo Apple deems to be too similar to theirs. One of the most absurd claims ever made. Meanwhile many supermarkets launch own brand products far more closely resembling successful brand products and get away with it.
> 
> ...


Here's a case in point involving this very site!





__





						Not Barney the overstuffed glove puppet purple dinosaur. No sir.
					

punch a celebrity and punch a politician - urban75 is the place to deliver some well earned slaps to deserving causes.



					www.urban75.com


----------



## T & P (Aug 21, 2020)

editor said:


> Here's a case in point involving this very site!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 21, 2020)

teuchter said:


> It seems like you just want to stir up trouble too.
> 
> This whole thread should be binned. It's been taken over by people who don't want to discuss the issues in an adult way.


Further to previous replies I would rather be a child and keep my self-respect if being an adult means being like you


----------



## Marty1 (Aug 21, 2020)

editor said:


> They're a $2 billion dollar business now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I love their story - two plucky Scottish best friends since kids taking on the world with beer.  They’re an inspiration to others imo.


----------



## editor (Aug 21, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> I love their story - two plucky Scottish best friends since kids taking on the world with beer.  They’re an inspiration to others imo.


*wipes tear from eye


----------



## teuchter (Aug 22, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> Further to previous replies I would rather be a child and keep my self-respect if being an adult means being like you


Thanks for keeping us up to date on the latest developments in your internal monologue and obviously I'm flattered to be a constant reference point within it.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 22, 2020)

I think it would be more trademark infringement and passing off rather than copyright infringement T & P but it's really not my specialism. Note the similar shades of yellow and blue used by the products.


----------



## klang (Aug 22, 2020)

You lot should see the original Littlezeb. You'd be amazed how good a copy I am.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Thanks for keeping us up to date on the latest developments in your internal monologue and obviously I'm flattered to be a constant reference point within it.


lay out those brewdog issues, if you please


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2020)

littleseb said:


> You lot should see the original Littlezeb. You'd be amazed how good a copy I am.


A fucksimile


----------



## brogdale (Aug 22, 2020)

editor said:


> *wipes tear from eye


Perhaps Marty1 is an “.. advocate...ambassador.... on this journey with [them]....the heart and soul of [their] business.”?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 22, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Perhaps Marty1 is an “.. advocate...ambassador.... on this journey with [them]....the heart and soul of [their] business.”?


That's not how you spell wanker


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 23, 2020)

brogdale said:


> *All brewers are tories.* I prefer the ones that are, at least, open about that fact.



I've drank with one or two 'in the trade'  who claim to be anarcho-syndicalists!  

Or who just 'sample product'  with us in the general way of pissed lefties 

I accept that I'm not talking about the owners/bosses of breweries like Shepherd Neame, mind you


----------



## Streathamite (Aug 23, 2020)

editor said:


> Here's a case in point involving this very site!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


god, I remember that! PMSL for hours. oh happy days, takes me back....


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 23, 2020)

Drink Brewdog, save the planet


----------



## Marty1 (Aug 23, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Drink Brewdog, save the planet




Wow, they’ve bought 2000 acres of Scottish Highland just to offset carbon with tree planting - that’s impressive.


----------



## tommers (Aug 23, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Drink Brewdog, save the planet



Is there no end to their awfulness?


----------



## tommers (Aug 23, 2020)

Not sure about the slogan though


----------



## teuchter (Aug 23, 2020)

> In addition to woodland creation and peatland restoration, we are also going to create a sustainable BrewDog campsite at the location and run sustainability retreats and workshops at the BrewDog Forest.



I've just emailed them to set up a camping retreat for all contributors to this thread, as soon as the campsite is ready. In addition to the sustainability stuff I'll be leading some conflict resolution and anger management workshops which I think will be helpful for some people here. Look forward to seeing you all there!


----------



## brogdale (Aug 23, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Wow, they’ve bought 2000 acres of Scottish Highland just to offset carbon with tree planting - that’s impressive.


The corporate welfare & potential tax advantages being merely coincidental, then?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Aug 23, 2020)

Imagine if the time devoted to this thread had been spent researching how to make a right-on beer out of sod, river mist, happy thoughts and hops that _want_ to be consumed. You could call it FYIPA.


----------



## tommers (Aug 23, 2020)

brogdale said:


> The corporate welfare & potential tax advantages being merely coincidental, then?



They should donate those to homeless dogs.


----------



## Marty1 (Aug 23, 2020)

Are Aldi carbon negative?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Aug 23, 2020)

I know I am. Fucking hate the stuff.


----------



## seeformiles (Aug 23, 2020)

T & P said:


> As a slight derail, it’s funny how some corporations take an absurdly overzealous approach to any alleged similarities between their brands and other brands, even when the other party doesn’t even compete with them in what they sell, while others don’t bother when they would have a much stronger case.
> 
> Apple are currently suing a husband and wife’s food blog because their website has a pear as its logo Apple deems to be too similar to theirs. One of the most absurd claims ever made. Meanwhile many supermarkets launch own brand products far more closely resembling successful brand products and get away with it.
> 
> ...


I’m sure Netto (RIP) had a tongue twisterly  version called “Beautifully Butterfully” 🤔


----------



## seeformiles (Aug 23, 2020)

As for Brewdog - the beer is OK but not great and all that “punk” stuff is just a gimmick. I find their pubs overpriced hipster havens (the Leeds branch anyway) where it’s impossible to buy a pint without a side order of “tasting notes” from the barman. Ach I have friends who buy right into their bullshit and it’s fine if that’s your thing but it’s not mine.  🙂


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 23, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Drink Brewdog, save the planet



So the first line implies they are already carbon negative, but later parts of the post state that they're going to fix the problem by starting this forest.

So which is it?


----------



## belboid (Aug 23, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> So the first line implies they are already carbon negative, but later parts of the post state that they're going to fix the problem by starting this forest.
> 
> So which is it?


The full report says they are currently partnering with groups (such as the woodland trust) to offset their emissions, but are taking control by setting up their own woodland.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 23, 2020)

belboid said:


> The full report says they are currently partnering with groups (such as the woodland trust) to offset their emissions, but are taking control by setting up their own woodland.


Woodland takes time to mature, easily 20 years. So, great, they're starting their own woodland but when will it actually be properly ready - 2040? 2050?


----------



## brogdale (Aug 23, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Woodland takes time to mature, easily 20 years. So, great, they're starting their own woodland but when will it actually be properly ready - 2040? 2050?


They'll have most likely have diversified into the, "tax efficient" generation of energy using wood pellet (biomass) by then.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Aug 23, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> So the first line implies they are already carbon negative, but later parts of the post state that they're going to fix the problem by starting this forest.
> 
> So which is it?


No idea, I don’t care really


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 23, 2020)

brogdale said:


> They'll have most likely have diversified into the, "tax efficient" generation of energy using wood pellet (biomass) by then.


There's not a large number of biomass-fired plants still going in the UK. Drax is owned by Drax Power LTD who own a portfolio of green power plants including Cruachan, a hydropower plant next to Loch Awe. Lynemouth is owned by EPH, a Czech company iirc but also owns lignite fired plants on the continent, amongst others.


----------



## 8ball (Aug 23, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> Drax is owned by Drax Power LTD



Wasn't he also the supervillain in _Moonraker?_


----------



## PTK (Aug 23, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


>


I remember that Ad campaign! There an advert on the telly in which two men were going to blow something up in support of the red revolution. Thanks for prompting the memories.


----------



## William of Walworth (Aug 24, 2020)

But!! 

If the beer's not good. it's not part of my revolution!


----------



## badseed (Aug 31, 2020)

Reasonable response


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 31, 2020)

William of Walworth said:


> But!!
> 
> If the beer's not good. it's not part of my revolution!


Like saying Louis xvi wasn't part of the French Revolution or Nicholas the last wasn't part of the Russian Revolution


----------



## badseed (Aug 31, 2020)

editor said:


> Interesting insider story here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That bloke is a fuckwit, investing his "tax refund" in BrewDog because he liked the name and played in some crappy Oi band. He's a marketing depts. wet dream.
One of his complaints is that he didn't use his discount card enough.


----------



## T & P (Sep 2, 2020)

I saw a billboard advert like this in Camberwell yesterday and thought of this thread...






I


----------



## belboid (Sep 2, 2020)

I went past a Brewdog pub just by the Tower of London the other day.  It had big signs in the windows proudly proclaiming it is ‘community owned’.  

How the fuck is that possible, unless they mean a community of cunts?


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2020)

belboid said:


> I went past a Brewdog pub just by the Tower of London the other day.  It had big signs in the windows proudly proclaiming it is ‘community owned’.
> 
> How the fuck is that possible, unless they mean a community of cunts?


You could argue just about anything is a community, but this is just dodgy, deceitful marketing and bullshit. 'Community owned' in the context of a High Street business clearly suggests that it is owned locally. 

Still, so long as they're giving away an absolutely _microscopic_ amount of their vast turnover for charity, some seem to think they're beyond criticism.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2020)

T & P said:


> I saw a billboard advert like this in Camberwell yesterday and thought of this thread...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Gosh. So damn edgy! How does their airline offering frivolous boozy trans-Atlantic flights fit in with all this?


----------



## tommers (Sep 2, 2020)

belboid said:


> I went past a Brewdog pub just by the Tower of London the other day.  It had big signs in the windows proudly proclaiming it is ‘community owned’.
> 
> How the fuck is that possible, unless they mean a community of cunts?



LMGTFY BrewDog




			
				editor said:
			
		

> absolutely _microscopic_ amount of their vast turnover for charity



20% of profits given away (10% to their employees, 10% to charities chosen by their employees / community).

All of their beer recipes freely available to everybody (e.g. PUNK IPA 2010 - CURRENT - BrewDog Recipes).  

blah blah blah


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2020)

tommers said:


> LMGTFY BrewDog
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sorry, I am supposed to be fucking impressed by a billion dollar company trading off the punk ethos to make immense profits for themselves?

I was involved in making beers once. We gave* all *the money away to local charities, didn't hire expensive PR to relentlessly tell the world about it, and we also posted our recipes online, not like it's any kind of big deal. Loads of people do it. Whoopeyfuckingdo.

We also didn't steal people's ideas, employ sexist advertising, sack people for going blind, threaten small breweries for having a name that vaguely sounded like ours and then cap it off with fraudulent bullshit about being 'community owned.'


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2020)

tommers said:


> LMGTFY BrewDog



"WE BELIEVE IN COMMUNITY OWNERSHIP

We are proud that our business is *part-owned* by a community of over 96,000 beer lovers from all over the planet. "

So not  actually 'community owned.'  Any idea what the actual percentage 'community' ownership is? Let's not forget the big slices bagged by the owners and a US private equity firm.



> The deal with TSG Consumer Partners, the $5bn 30-year-old San Francisco-based private equity firm, sees TSG acquire “approximately” 22 per cent of BrewDog for what the _Sunday Times_ says is £213 million, split between a £100 million investment in the firm and £113 million paid to existing shareholders.
> 
> Of the two founders, James Watt is seeing his stake in the firm drop from 35 per cent to 25 per cent and Martin Dickie’s slice goes down from 30 per cent to 22.


It's fucking PR bullshit for the gullible.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 2, 2020)

tommers said:


> 20% of profits given away (10% to their employees, 10% to charities chosen by their employees / community).


More than any other UK company in the industry, btw. 

Outstanding company.


----------



## rutabowa (Sep 2, 2020)

How can this thread be 72 pages long I wonder?


----------



## tommers (Sep 2, 2020)

editor said:


> "WE BELIEVE IN COMMUNITY OWNERSHIP
> 
> We are proud that our business is *part-owned* by a community of over 96,000 beer lovers from all over the planet. "
> 
> ...


Its 25%.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2020)

tommers said:


> Its 25%.


So not community owned at all. 

Are you OK with that kind of deception?


----------



## belboid (Sep 2, 2020)

tommers said:


> LMGTFY BrewDog


So every plc is actually a community then?  Come on.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 2, 2020)

belboid said:


> So every plc is actually a community then?  Come on.



They’re not a plc, but your point still stands.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 2, 2020)

editor said:


> So not community owned at all.
> 
> Are you OK with that kind of deception?
> 
> View attachment 228880



That is definitely deceptive.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2020)

belboid said:


> So every plc is actually a community then?  Come on.


It's quite priceless bullshit yet some seem to swallow it whole.   😂


----------



## belboid (Sep 2, 2020)

BAe Systems, for all hard working members of the arms dealer community.


----------



## 8ball (Sep 2, 2020)

editor said:


> It's quite priceless bullshit yet some seem to swallow it whole.   😂



I think you’re more than justified in taking that sign and trashing it.


----------



## tommers (Sep 2, 2020)

belboid said:


> So every plc is actually a community then?  Come on.



no, it's all marketing nonsense isn't it, but you asked why they would put that on their pub and it's because 25% of the company is owned by individuals.


----------



## belboid (Sep 2, 2020)

tommers said:


> no, it's all marketing nonsense isn't it, but you asked why they would put that on their pub and it's because 25% of the company is owned by individuals.


So it’s because they’re full of shit and want to redefine a word.  Thanks.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 2, 2020)

'community owned' is generally taken to mean the local community, not any old group of shareholders.


----------



## salem (Sep 2, 2020)

What absolute bollocks, they've got their 'equity punks' who are shareholders who are sold investments. They aren't doing it out of the goodness of their heart.

Actual Community pubs, i.e where a community gets together to save a pub that might otherwise be shut down have featured in the press quite a bit over the past few years. Brewdog as they so often do, see a bandwagon they can jump on to milk.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 4, 2020)

Bought this can in ALDI today  Wonderful if mixed with an Abbots ale in a pint glass.


----------



## kenny g (Sep 4, 2020)

More pics:-
 And cost me £1.19 for the can. FU Punk.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 4, 2020)

kenny g said:


> Bought this can in ALDI today  Wonderful if mixed with an Abbots ale ...



Abbot


----------



## kenny g (Sep 4, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Abbot


Duly corrected. Shocking I have not noticed this previously. Thank you.


----------



## T & P (Sep 5, 2020)

£1.19 for a 33cl Aldi own brand beer? Bloody hell- that seems rather expensive to me. Must be about the most expensive supermarket branded beer per cl around!

And it’s not much cheaper than Punk IPA anyway. When I buy the Bailey’s unheard-of copycat Irish cream brand they sell at Aldi I do it because it’s literally 4 times cheaper, and at £4 very good value, admittedly not as good but still very decent.

£.1.19 vs £1.49 it’s not exactly mind-blowingly cheaper than the premium brand it’s copying. I hope they do bulk discounts because if you buy a case of Punk IPA it’s actually the same price per can as a single Aldi beer.


----------



## badseed (Sep 6, 2020)

rutabowa said:


> How can this thread be 72 pages long I wonder?


Because they said Punk


----------



## Marty1 (Sep 6, 2020)

tommers said:


> LMGTFY BrewDog
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Genuinely impressive and an example to other companies to follow.

Yes, I’m looking at you Bezos you complete fucking cunt.


----------



## tommers (Sep 6, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Genuinely impressive and an example to other companies to follow.
> 
> Yes, I’m looking at you Bezos you complete fucking cunt.



Devil's in the detail. Is that gross or net profit? Be interesting to see the actual numbers. But I like that employees and "community" get to pick where it goes. 

Amazon would just say that they haven't made any profits in the UK. Same way they don't pay any tax.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 6, 2020)

editor said:


> Still, so long as they're giving away an absolutely _microscopic_ amount of their vast turnover for charity, some seem to think they're beyond criticism.


Turnover != Profit

How long did your totally-for-profit microbrewery last, by the way?


----------



## isvicthere? (Sep 6, 2020)

editor said:


> They're a $2 billion dollar business now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Forbes magazine? Seriously "punk"!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Sep 6, 2020)

tommers said:


> LMGTFY BrewDog
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You're required to pay your staff, it doesn't count as charity.


----------



## nick (Sep 14, 2020)

You lucky people. You can buy into the dream again. 
BrewDog


----------



## editor (Sep 14, 2020)

S☼I said:


> How long did your totally-for-profit microbrewery last, by the way?


What the fecking chuffnuts are you gibbering on about?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 14, 2020)

nick said:


> You lucky people. You can buy into the dream again.
> BrewDog


Urban BrewDog shares pool?


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Urban BrewDog shares pool?


the most vocal opponents of the company should invest so they can get up at the agm and vent - in the same way that some people buy shares in other companies they oppose.


----------



## T & P (Sep 14, 2020)

I haven't bought a single share of anything in my life, but if I were playing the stock market this would seem a reasonable punt given their popularity.


----------



## klang (Sep 14, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> the most vocal opponents of the company should invest so they can get up at the agm and vent


can't think of a worst way to spend an evening than BD's agm.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2020)

littleseb said:


> can't think of a worst way to spend an evening than BD's agm.


i can, spending an evening listening to people pontificating on how awful they are. while adding nothing new to their analysis that they haven't said a dozen times before.


----------



## T & P (Sep 14, 2020)

littleseb said:


> can't think of a worst way to spend an evening than BD's agm.


Will there be free beer?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 14, 2020)

T & P said:


> Will there be free beer?


I'd be extraordinarily surprised if there wasn't.


----------



## klang (Sep 14, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> I'd be extraordinarily surprised if there wasn't.


one of the very few gigs I've played that didn't provide free beer (or a t least a few tokens) was the 500th anniversary of a brewery.
and yes, I was extraordinarily surprised.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 14, 2020)

Is it possible to purchase some shares and then transfer ownership of those shares to the urban75 server fund? Then, the better brewdog does, the better urban75 does, and also it would make the company more community-owned, which is what everyone wants. 

By the way, brewdog is a scottish company, and I wonder if people think about how attacks on brewdog make Scottish people feel. 

I look forward to someone anglosplaining to me, why it would be stupid for a scot to take offence at a load of people from bigger, less punk ethos orientated countries attacking members of the scottish business community.


----------



## T & P (Sep 14, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Is it possible to purchase some shares and then transfer ownership of those shares to the urban75 server fund? Then, the better brewdog does, the better urban75 does, and also it would make the company more community-owned, which is what everyone wants.


----------



## Cerv (Sep 14, 2020)

T & P said:


> I haven't bought a single share of anything in my life, but if I were playing the stock market this would seem a reasonable punt given their popularity.


you're out luck. Brewdog shares aren't listed on any stock market. and the prospectus says they've still no intention to do so at this time. 

that's one of the aspects of the Equity for Punks crowdfunding that's a bit dodgy. how they get away with still running the PLC like their privately owned company


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2020)

Cerv said:


> you're out luck. Brewdog shares aren't listed on any stock market. and the prospectus says they've still no intention to do so at this time.
> 
> that's one of the aspects of the Equity for Punks crowdfunding that's a bit dodgy. how they get away with still running the PLC like their privately owned company


shares have been periodically issued and sold at auction: Asset Match


----------



## Cerv (Sep 14, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> shares have been periodically issued and sold at auction: Asset Match


true. once per year and at the approval of Brewdog itself. but Asset Match is not a stock market. 



teuchter said:


> Is it possible to purchase some shares and then transfer ownership of those shares to the urban75 server fund? Then, the better brewdog does, the better urban75 does, and also it would make the company more community-owned, which is what everyone wants.


maybe. their prospectus does talk about corporate rather than individual shareholders so they can't be totally opposed to the idea. but they reserve the right to reject any applications. example given is rejecting any investment from a multinational brewery chain but "group who take the piss out of us" might not be welcomed.
bigger problem is Brewdog have never paid dividend and say they have no intention to do so - profits after distribution to staff / charities all to be reinvested in the business. so it wouldn't actively contribute to the server fund anyway.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2020)

Cerv said:


> true. once per year and at the approval of Brewdog itself. but Asset Match is not a stock market.


quite so, i found the information there and regret any impression i gave that it was a listing like aim or the lse.


----------



## Cerv (Sep 14, 2020)

actually I'm glad you posted that link. interesting that Asset Match shows last trading was 01/01/2019 at £15 per share
but the funding round launched this week is asking £25.15 
has the value of the company really gone up so much in a year & a half? 

if they'd sold these from the start as a £50 lifetime membership of a fan club that granted a discount in the store I'd have no problem with it. I was tempted back in the very first round years ago when I thought that's what the crowdfunder was. until I read into the details. it's dressing it up as an investment that rubs me the wrong way. feels too much like they're scam artists taking advantage of punter's ignorance of financial matters.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2020)

Cerv said:


> actually I'm glad you posted that link. interesting that Asset Match shows last trading was 01/01/2019 at £15 per share
> but the funding round launched this week is asking £25.15
> has the value of the company really gone up so much in a year & a half?
> 
> if they'd sold these from the start as a £50 lifetime membership of a fan club that granted a discount in the store I'd have no problem with it. I was tempted back in the very first round years ago when I thought that's what the crowdfunder was. until I read into the details. it's dressing it up as an investment that rubs me the wrong way. feels too much like they're scam artists taking advantage of punter's ignorance of financial matters.


tbh i think that the market sphere they operate in is likely to prove more volatile than they like. sometimes products enter the market and they do well for a spell and recede and are seen no more - like caffrey's in this country. it was launched with a great splash in the 90s and now i can't think of a pub which serves it. maybe a few in kilburn and cricklewood. the way that beer's going, the brash and overhopped style won't last forever and tbh that's what i associate brewdog with (albeit i've only really tried their low alcohol one). i don't think their shares will prove a good investment and i will be interested to see how they're doing in a year's time. £25/share? too dear imo.


----------



## 8115 (Sep 14, 2020)

Caffreys, that takes me back.


----------



## nick (Sep 14, 2020)

Cerv said:


> bigger problem is Brewdog have never paid dividend and say they have no intention to do so



Neither have Berkshire Hathaway and a lot of people seem to think that they are a good punt.

But your point is well made, from a corporate governance P.O.V, there appear to be a lot of questions over it - cf the Private Eye article I posted up thread. And the asset match thing means they aren't exactly liquid (says me who got burned by Woodford)


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2020)

8115 said:


> Caffreys, that takes me back.


for years i had a caffrey's glass i'd had to drink seven pints to get


----------



## 8115 (Sep 14, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> for years i had a caffrey's glass i'd had to drink seven pints to get


I've never had a pint, it looked very off putting. Like a bastard child of Guinness and lager.


----------



## Pickman's model (Sep 14, 2020)

8115 said:


> I've never had a pint, it looked very off putting. Like a bastard child of Guinness and lager.


i quite liked it at the time.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 14, 2020)

Cerv said:


> true. once per year and at the approval of Brewdog itself. but Asset Match is not a stock market.
> 
> 
> maybe. their prospectus does talk about corporate rather than individual shareholders so they can't be totally opposed to the idea. but they reserve the right to reject any applications. example given is rejecting any investment from a multinational brewery chain but "group who take the piss out of us" might not be welcomed.
> bigger problem is Brewdog have never paid dividend and say they have no intention to do so - profits after distribution to staff / charities all to be reinvested in the business. so it wouldn't actively contribute to the server fund anyway.


If I buy some shares, and the leave them to the urban75 server fund in my will, and then I die, what happens?


----------



## fishfinger (Sep 14, 2020)

teuchter said:


> If I buy some shares, and the leave them to the urban75 server fund in my will, and then I die, what happens?


We have a party.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 15, 2020)

equationgirl said:


> I thought NCP parking attendant Teaboy.



Wearing a cagoule, and an oversized peaked cap with the NCP enamel badge on it.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2020)

S☼I said:


> How long did your totally-for-profit microbrewery last, by the way?


I'd be really grateful if you explained this comment, please.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 15, 2020)

editor said:


> I'd be really grateful if you explained this comment, please.


Sorry, typo. 

How long did your totally NON for profit microbrewery last? I'm genuinely curious how sustainable it was in the end


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 15, 2020)

brogdale said:


> Perhaps Marty1 is an “.. advocate...ambassador.... on this journey with [them]....the heart and soul of [their] business.”?



Nah, he's just a smeghead.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 15, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Drink Brewdog, save the planet




I won't even drink it TO save the planet. Over-hopped, & overpriced.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 15, 2020)

Marty1 said:


> Wow, they’ve bought 2000 acres of Scottish Highland just to offset carbon with tree planting - that’s impressive.



Perhaps you should ask yourself why there's no forest there already.


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Sorry, typo.
> 
> How long did your totally NON for profit microbrewery last? I'm genuinely curious how sustainable it was in the end


It lasted long enough to raise several thousand pounds, and we gave away all of that to local charities. It's been revived a couple of times since for short bursts and helped raise a bit more dosh. There's a reasonable chance it may resurface some time in the future too

There seemed to be a fairly keen market for the beer, and if we had more time, I'm pretty sure we could have made a lot more money and possibly made it commercially viable and still handed over a fairly large wedge of cash to charities.  Like pizza, palatable beer is pretty cheap to make after all - that's why there's been so many pizza joints/hipster breweries springing up all over the place.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 15, 2020)

tommers said:


> no, it's all marketing nonsense isn't it, but you asked why they would put that on their pub and it's because 25% of the company is owned by individuals.



The same could be said of many businesses though.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Sep 15, 2020)

editor said:


> It lasted long enough to raise several thousand pounds, and we gave away all of that to local charities. It's been revived a couple of times since for short bursts and helped raise a bit more dosh. There's a reasonable chance it may resurface some time in the future too
> 
> There seemed to be a fairly keen market for the beer, and if we had more time, I'm pretty sure we could have made a lot more money and possibly made it commercially viable and still handed over a fairly large wedge of cash to charities.  Like pizza, palatable beer is pretty cheap to make after all - that's why there's been so many pizza joints/hipster breweries springing up all over the place.


Ah, I don't see that much, I don't think there is much of that stuff in deepest Lincs, though a Twitter friend of mine got into brewing enough he was invited to sell two of his beers at a local beer festival. Definitely a hobbyist thing, I imagine the probleif you want to go large scale is distribution and sheer production space.


----------



## salem (Sep 15, 2020)

Cerv said:


> actually I'm glad you posted that link. interesting that Asset Match shows last trading was 01/01/2019 at £15 per share
> but the funding round launched this week is asking £25.15
> has the value of the company really gone up so much in a year & a half?


This link says the shares were priced at £25 in 2019 too - so to me it looks like when they're put to an actual market (i.e Asset Match) the value reached was only £15 a share and that looks like a particularly strong round.

Actually just realised the asset match auction was 2019 too - ignore me - updated below


----------



## editor (Sep 15, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Ah, I don't see that much, I don't think there is much of that stuff in deepest Lincs, though a Twitter friend of mine got into brewing enough he was invited to sell two of his beers at a local beer festival. Definitely a hobbyist thing, I imagine the probleif you want to go large scale is distribution and sheer production space.


Because of the charity angle - and the fact that it was being brewed by a popular local website based in Brixton - we had a lot of interest from people wanting to stock the beer. 

We had a local brewery who were happy to make the stuff for us, and if we ever decide to give it another go, I think we could provide a good, truly independent alternative to the all-conquering Brixton Brewery (49% owned by Heineken).


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Ah, I don't see that much, I don't think there is much of that stuff in deepest Lincs, though a Twitter friend of mine got into brewing enough he was invited to sell two of his beers at a local beer festival. Definitely a hobbyist thing, I imagine the probleif you want to go large scale is distribution and sheer production space.


Yeah, I'm not too sure how a comparison between a few people sporadically brewing and giving away beer and a fully commercial enterprise got made, but they're quite clearly chalk and cheese.


----------



## salem (Sep 15, 2020)

It's not that easy to find but this page (their site limits info) suggests that the 'equity for punks round v' in Oct 2018 charged £23.75/share (min 2 shares) so yeah an actual price of £15 when they hit a real (limited) market in Jan 2019 doesn't strike me as a great investment. That they banged them up at £25 the next round is definitely a bit of a pisstake.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 15, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Yeah, I'm not too sure how a comparison between a few people sporadically brewing and giving away beer and a fully commercial enterprise got made, but they're quite clearly chalk and cheese.


Seems like you are taking a low ambition approach here - surely it would be better to scale up the charity model. All that needs to happen is for Brewdog to fire most of their staff, replace them with volunteers (retired people, professionals on career breaks for self reflection, the independently wealthy, carefully monitored prisoners, etc etc) and then up the proportion of their profits that go to charity. I reckon they could hit 80 or 90% this way.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 15, 2020)




----------



## William of Walworth (Sep 15, 2020)

teuchter 's new brewery will surely be called *Wind-Up Ales* -- taking the piss from February to Easter 2021!!


----------



## editor (Oct 2, 2020)

Could someone explain to me how drinking this stuff will supposedly have a net 'positive impact on the planet'?

I would have thought that the planet would - given the choice - prefer to not have associated energy/material resources used up to power the brewery, create the beer, manufacture the tins and transport them in vehicles all over the globe etc etc, but Brewdog seem to be saying that all that isn't just offset by their methods, but it turns out to be a bonus win for nature!

Quire remarkable.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Oct 2, 2020)

If I drink 8 cans I certainly feel better about the world.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 2, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> If I drink 8 cans I certainly feel better about the world.



Agreed.  Though after 10 cans I really want to punch a dolphin.


----------



## Cerv (Oct 2, 2020)

they say that the amount of trees they're paying for to be planted will absorb more CO2 than is emitted in the production of the beer. hence a net positive - better than being just "carbon neutral"
but you're right that does ignore all the other environmental impacts. like they're not un-mining the aluminium to put that back in the ground.
it's a bit of a silly greenwashing slogan really.


----------



## T & P (Oct 3, 2020)

Get drinking, people!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 4, 2020)

I see they've not taken the methane production stimulated by their beer into account (raises left cheek, pops a beer fart).


----------



## editor (Oct 12, 2020)

I wonder if this bold claim includes the CO2 used in the supply chain, manufacture of cans, transport etc etc


----------



## bellaozzydog (Oct 12, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> the most vocal opponents of the company should invest so they can get up at the agm and vent - in the same way that some people buy shares in other companies they oppose.



South west water is giving people shares, a lot of people angry about their sewage fuckwittery are signing up to express themselves


----------



## tommers (Oct 13, 2020)

editor said:


> I wonder if this bold claim includes the CO2 used in the supply chain, manufacture of cans, transport etc etc





			https://d1fnkk8n0t8a0e.cloudfront.net/docs/Make-Earth-Great-Again_4.pdf
		


Seems to be, yes.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2020)

tommers said:


> https://d1fnkk8n0t8a0e.cloudfront.net/docs/Make-Earth-Great-Again_4.pdf
> 
> 
> 
> Seems to be, yes.


Is their airline in there too?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 13, 2020)

editor said:


> I wonder if this bold claim includes the CO2 used in the supply chain, manufacture of cans, transport etc etc
> 
> View attachment 234124


It's because forestry is a tax dodge.


----------



## tommers (Oct 13, 2020)

editor said:


> Is their airline in there too?



Well, it covers all of their scope 1, 2 & 3 carbon output so, if that is still active, then yes.

Let me guess, that's bad in some way.


----------



## editor (Oct 13, 2020)

tommers said:


> Well, it covers all of their scope 1, 2 & 3 carbon output so, if that is still active, then yes.
> 
> Let me guess, that's bad in some way.


No, it's utterly fantastic, I wish all breweries - especially 'community owned' ones - would form their own airlines to fly people over the Atlantic for beer-supping jaunts.

Just what the planet needs right now and all fantastic PR!


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2020)

So damn punk rock 



> Drinks giant BrewDog has been accused of stalling on refunds after selling about £280,000 of tickets for its cancelled Punk AGM event.
> 
> One angry shareholder has resorted to legal action in a bid to claw back their cash from the firm – more than six months after the Aberdeen event was scrapped due to Covid-19 in April.
> 
> ...











						BrewDog shareholder taking court action against drinks giant over AGM refund
					

One angry shareholder has resorted to legal action in a bid to claw back their cash from the firm – more than six months after the Aberdeen event was scrapped due to Covid-19 in April.




					www.dailyrecord.co.uk


----------



## salem (Nov 4, 2020)

Charging their shareholders to go to their AGM  is that even legal in the first place?

Tbf that is pretty punk of them.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Nov 13, 2020)

They’ve gone all Willy Wonka...


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They’ve gone all Willy Wonka...


Awesome PR!


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They’ve gone all Willy Wonka...



Ace bit of marketing. 

You wouldn't want to be the one who didn't know about the promotion and binned it though!


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 13, 2020)

What bloody use if a £15k gold can?  If its melted down is it worth £15k?  If so begs the question why making the can in the first place - just give people the £15k as no one is going to keep the can unless you're already wealthy.

Plus they're brewery is miles away so I wouldn't be arsed with that.  The shares I'd have and sell immediately because I still have this lot down to be a Carillion style house of cards.


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> What bloody use if a £15k gold can?  If its melted down is it worth £15k?  If so begs the question why making the can in the first place - just give people the £15k as no one is going to keep the can unless you're already wealthy.
> 
> Plus they're brewery is miles away so I wouldn't be arsed with that.  The shares I'd have and sell immediately because I still have this lot down to be a Carillion style house of cards.


Here's the important bit:  Winners receive a gold can worth £15K, £10k of* BrewDog shares* & VIP tour of our Brewery.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> What bloody use if a £15k gold can?


If you_ really_ can't think of something to do with gold worth 15k, feel free to give it to me.

This is a £25k prize by the look of it. £15k can PLUS £10K of shares. Even if it was all in shares; fine by me. They're probably easier to sell than a gold tin.

Superb promotion


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2020)

ClimateAction congratulates Brewdog on being the first brewery in the world to go carbon negative. 

Hats off to them


----------



## salem (Nov 13, 2020)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> They’ve gone all Willy Wonka...



Silence far from golden for child labourers in the mines of Uganda


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 13, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> If you_ really_ can't think of something to do with gold worth 15k, feel free to give it to me.
> 
> This is a £25k prize by the look of it. £15k can PLUS £10K of shares. Even if it was all in shares; fine by me. They're probably easier to sell than a gold tin.
> 
> Superb promotion



I know what to do with it.  Melt it down for the cash.  They should have just given away the cash and saved the energy.  Underwhelming stuff.  I guess they must be bored in lockdown like the rest of us.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> I know what to do with it.  Melt it down for the cash.  They should have just given away the cash and saved the energy.  Underwhelming stuff.  I guess they must be bored in lockdown like the rest of us.


Eh?

Why melt it down when it’s already in one of the most valuable commodity forms on the planet.

It’s as good or better than cash.


----------



## salem (Nov 13, 2020)

I mean tbf as far as competitions and marketing go, a crap prize is often more desired than it's equivalent in cash. It's not a bad competition and I find it hard to knock them for it.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 13, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Eh?
> 
> Why melt it down when it’s already in one of the most valuable commodity forms on the planet.
> 
> It’s as good or better than cash.


It's solid gold, and Brewdog marketing genius, encompassed in one object that you can literally hold in your hand.

It would be like melting down a Henry Moore sculpture.


----------



## tommers (Nov 13, 2020)

This thread is now a ritual as well-worn and practised as the changing of the seasons and the tides of the sea.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2020)

teuchter said:


> It's solid gold, and Brewdog marketing genius, encompassed in one object that you can literally hold in your hand.
> 
> It would be like melting down a Henry Moore sculpture.


Indeed.

It'll always be worth its weight value as a minimum but in addition, it's one of only 15 of something in the world, which would bestow additional value. You'd be nuts to melt it.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 13, 2020)

tommers said:


> This thread is now a ritual as well-worn and practised as the passing of the seasons, the tides of the sea.


It's an anchor in an ocean of uncertainty. Social glue for the urban75 community.

The Brewdog guys have created more than just a brand. They've created... they've created something bigger than that. Bigger than they know.


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 13, 2020)

teuchter said:


> It's an anchor in an ocean of uncertainty. Social glue for the urban75 community.
> 
> The Brewdog guys have created more than just a brand. They've created... they've created something bigger than that. Bigger than they know.



I no longer think of them as a brewer.  They're that company from that thread.


----------



## 8ball (Nov 13, 2020)

editor said:


> Awesome PR!



I hope they're stumping up something for the server fund.


----------



## tommers (Nov 13, 2020)

Teaboy said:


> I no longer think of them as a brewer.  They're that company from that thread.


Theyve transcended mere brewing.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2020)

tommers said:


> Theyve transcended mere brewing.



One of the UK (and Urban75's) best loved businesses?


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2020)

tommers said:


> Theyve transcended mere brewing.


They are the personification of Wank, worshipped by many.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 13, 2020)

They're the wesonification of punk*, sipped by plenty àeehhh*


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2020)

S☼I said:


> They're the wesonification of punk*, sipped by plenty àeehhh*


Let's face it, punk was a right load of old shit. Brewdog must be congratulated for turning it into something halfway decent.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 13, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> Let's face it, punk was a right load of old shit. Brewdog must be congratulated for turning it into something halfway decent.


The idea of punk was great


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2020)

S☼I said:


> The idea of punk was great


But the music was shit and the adherants were massive dickheads.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 13, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> But the music was shit and the adherants were massive dickheads.


Laid down the template for post punk and bands doing things for themselves though, which was great


----------



## teuchter (Nov 13, 2020)

S☼I said:


> The idea of punk was great


What was the idea?


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2020)

S☼I said:


> The idea of punk was great


And still - to this day - is massively influential.  The punk explosion was hugely liberating for musicians, artists and individuals of all genders and sexualities.

But anyone who knows anything about the topic already knows that. And of course, anyone who knows anything about punk knows that Brewdog's attempt to appropriate the culture for self profit  is laughable and embarrassing.


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Laid down the template for post punk and bands doing things for themselves though, which was great


This site wouldn't exist if not for punk.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2020)

teuchter said:


> What was the idea?


To give bellends something to bounce around to.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 13, 2020)

Spymaster said:


> To give bellends something to bounce around to.


Lol no


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 13, 2020)

S☼I said:


> Lol no


Maybe not but I think we can all agtree that Brewdog have done punk a massive favour.


----------



## teuchter (Nov 13, 2020)

Whatever the original idea was (I don't think anyone agrees anyway), the fact is that punk's legacy in the 21st century UK boils down to Brewdog and Urban75. It's no coincidence that they emerged at the same time, give or take a few years.

I think it's wrong to be all negative about this. Culture is culture - you can't dictate how it will morph and develop.


----------



## editor (Nov 13, 2020)

The scores are in from the Trolling Judges and it's a very very poor result all round. 
A dismal 0.1/10. Poor show. All that wasted energy. Sad, really.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2020)

This is jolly nice for those crazy punk rock guys. While they're planning build their first beer hotel in England, hosting an 18-bedroom boutique hotel featuring a 150-cover bar and restaurant on the ground floor and fire pit on the roof, they've just bagged £25m loan off the government and scooped £7.5m from its Equity for Punks Tomorrow scheme.

Just how punk rock is that!


----------



## Raheem (Nov 20, 2020)

Quite similar to what the Sex Pistols did to EMI and A&M, TBF.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Quite similar to what the Sex Pistols did to EMI and A&M, TBF.


What?


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 20, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Quite similar to what the Sex Pistols did to EMI and A&M, TBF.


not really, being as emi and a&m sacked the sex pistols


----------



## Raheem (Nov 20, 2020)

Pickman's model said:


> not really, being as emi and a&m sacked the sex pistols


But the Sex Pistols took their money.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 20, 2020)

Raheem said:


> Quite similar to what the Sex Pistols did to EMI and A&M, TBF.


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 20, 2020)

Raheem said:


> But the Sex Pistols took their money.


and they took virgin's money too.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 20, 2020)

Blimey! They took a LOAN!!!

Like several million other businesses.


----------



## kenny g (Nov 20, 2020)

Takes one to see one as they say.


----------



## editor (Nov 20, 2020)

Raheem said:


> But the Sex Pistols took their money.


And you really think there's some valid comparisons to be made between a punk band being kicked off record labels forty-odd years ago and a multinational, multi-multi-million brewery and pub chain backed by private equity cash?

Please explain your point.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 21, 2020)

By the way, just to put this into some kind of cogent context, Brewdog, like thousands of other firms in the sector, lost 70% of their income and have made a 9 million quid loss since lockdown 1. They have taken out a £25m loan with HSBC under the Large Business Interuption Scheme.

HSBC is the lender NOT THE GOVERNMENT and it is fully repayable after 3 years in a single payment.

The government simply guarantees 80% of the loan should BD go bust. This is hugely unlikely so government funds are almost certainly never going to be touched.

This is actually a highly astute business strategy and one which every company which is able, is likely to follow.

Always better to understand these things properly really.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 27, 2020)

Big praise for BD for their charity work, NHS support, and production and distribution of hand sanitizer.

Definitely one of the better businesses out there  









						BrewDog named Marketing Society's Brave Brand of the Year
					

Live vote took place over Zoom.




					www.campaignlive.co.uk


----------



## teuchter (Nov 27, 2020)

Pretty much end of discussion, right? 

Or will random internet posters insist that they know better than members of The Marketing Society, who set the standard for marketing excellence in the UK, as per the statement on their website.


----------



## belboid (Nov 27, 2020)

I suspect some people don’t really get what ‘marketing’ is


----------



## Teaboy (Nov 27, 2020)

belboid said:


> I suspect some people don’t really get what ‘marketing’ is



Most people employed in marketing for starters.  IME.


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2020)

A 'brave' multinational brand backed by a San Francisco-based private equity company. SO EDGY!


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 27, 2020)

teuchter said:


> Or will random internet posters insist that they know better than members of The Marketing Society ...


Yes


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 27, 2020)

.


----------



## belboid (Nov 27, 2020)

Damn, you’re right.  The fact that this company got an award for its ‘charitable’ works from a marketing group really undermines the idea that their ‘charity’ work is all about marketing.


----------



## editor (Nov 27, 2020)

belboid said:


> Damn, you’re right.  The fact that this company got an award for its ‘charitable’ works from a marketing group really undermines the idea that their ‘charity’ work is all about marketing.


You'll have to help me here. It's obviously laudable but how is that 'brave', exactly?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Nov 27, 2020)

Imagine if Marcus Rashford starts doing adverts for Brewdog and the story is broken by the Mail


----------



## tommers (Jan 2, 2021)

my vote goes to "Community Immunity" but "Little Prick" has a certain ring to it.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 2, 2021)

“Shameless marketing and profiteering from a global pandemic” ... etc etc


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 2, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> “Shameless marketing and profiteering from a global pandemic” ... etc etc


Scumbag bastards


----------



## editor (Jan 2, 2021)

tommers said:


> my vote goes to "Community Immunity" but "Little Prick" has a certain ring to it.


Another triumph of big budget marketing leading to more exposure and more profits. And that's what punk is all about!

Have any of these centres opened up yet?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 2, 2021)




----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 2, 2021)




----------



## brogdale (Jan 2, 2021)

_talks with the government..._about vaccination.

Wankers.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 2, 2021)

_In science news, it has been conclusively proven that a single can of Brewdog both cures and prevents COVID-19. Brewdog owners are trebling production using the Nightingale hospitals as makeshift breweries and will be giving their beer out for free._

_Among the widespread delight and gratitude, however, there have been some dissenting voices complaining it's all a marketing ruse, and anyway this isn't what punk's supposed to be about, and their beer is overpriced shit anyway_


----------



## hash tag (Jan 2, 2021)

What they sell isn't even proper beer, it's just fizzy piss


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 2, 2021)

hash tag said:


> What they sell isn't even proper beer, it's just fizzy piss


They make some lovely beers.


----------



## T & P (Jan 2, 2021)

They should update that famous idiom to 'Nothing can be said to be certain except death, taxes, and the predictability of responses in Urban 75's BrewDog thread'


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 2, 2021)

hash tag said:


> What they sell isn't even proper beer, it's just fizzy piss


Most of their beers aren't to my taste but they're very definitely _proper beers. _Fizzy piss are your characterless Europop lagers like Heineken, Amstel, Stella, and the like. They have their place but generally speaking they're beers for people who don't actually like beer but have to drink something. Give Brewdog their due, at least their brews taste of something.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 2, 2021)

Initially they were going to build a large hotel at the brewery site in Ellon, but that doesn't seem to have happened. Instead they did a small hotel above their pub I Aberdeen city centre.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 2, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Most of their beers aren't to my taste but they're very definitely _proper beers. _Fizzy piss are your characterless Europop lagers like Heineken, Amstel, Stella, and the like. They have their place but generally speaking they're beers for people who don't actually like beer but have to drink something. Give Brewdog their due, at least their brews taste of something.


It's what it tastes of that causes temperatures and stomach contents to rise


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 2, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Initially they were going to build a large hotel at the brewery site in Ellon, but that doesn't seem to have happened. Instead they did a small hotel above their pub I Aberdeen city centre.


Their BP is to open hotels above their bars.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 2, 2021)

Now it is. It certainly wasn't when they first started talking about hotels.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 2, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Their BP is to open hotels above their bars.


Beds for punx


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 2, 2021)

Well anyone opening large hotels in the last year would probably be considered rather reckless.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 2, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Beds for punx


And dogz.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 2, 2021)

As far as I know, none of the local independent bars or cafes around me are in talks with the government to offer to cure the coronavirus. So it just goes to show, it's forward thinking chain operations like brewdog that are best for local communities. A lot of people who have posted on this thread are looking pretty short sighted now.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 2, 2021)

teuchter said:


> As far as I know, none of the local independent bars or cafes around me are in talks with the government to offer to cure the coronavirus. So it just goes to show, it's forward thinking chain operations like brewdog that are best for local communities. A lot of people who have posted on this thread are looking pretty short sighted now.


As far as you know none of your local indy bars or caffs are in talks with the govt. Ok. I don't suppose you've canvassed them so they might have formed a group to approach the govt on their behalf for all you know. You're arguing from a position of abject ignorance once again.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 2, 2021)

teuchter said:


> As far as I know, none of the local independent bars or cafes around me are in talks with the government to offer to cure the coronavirus. So it just goes to show, it's forward thinking chain operations like brewdog that are best for local communities. A lot of people who have posted on this thread are looking pretty short sighted now.


"cure"?? Weak, even for you. Do you honestly think pubs are ideal places to vaccinate people?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 2, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Do you honestly think pubs are ideal places to vaccinate people?


Why not? They're as good as community centres and halls, both of which are planned venues for the vaccine roll-out.


----------



## tommers (Jan 2, 2021)

Having been in a Brewdog pub (before the latest lockdown) i can confirm that it was very clean. The vegan burger was really nice as well.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 2, 2021)

ddraig said:


> "cure"?? Weak, even for you. Do you honestly think pubs are ideal places to vaccinate people?


They are giving away free beer. Do you want to stop people getting free beer? I bet that's your real objection.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 2, 2021)

I mean it's typical urban75 miserablism. You offer someone a life saving injection and a free beer and they start complaining that the interior decor is not "ideal".


----------



## ddraig (Jan 2, 2021)

teuchter said:


> They are giving away free beer. Do you want to stop people getting free beer? I bet that's your real objection.


Even worse! I know it's the weekend but do try harder


----------



## teuchter (Jan 2, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Even worse! I know it's the weekend but do try harder


Try harder at what?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 2, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Even worse! I know it's the weekend but do try harder


This is him trying harder


----------



## ddraig (Jan 2, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Try harder at what?


your usual schtik


----------



## teuchter (Jan 2, 2021)

ddraig said:


> your usual schtik


How do I measure success?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 2, 2021)

teuchter said:


> How do I measure success?


Poorly


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 2, 2021)

teuchter said:


> How do I measure success?


You've got Snake's-Belly spitting from the sidelines as usual.

Job done.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 2, 2021)

teuchter said:


> How do I measure success?


Other contrarians and shit stirrers liking your posts? The amount of groans? Both maybe


----------



## editor (Jan 3, 2021)

Any business with any class and credibility would wait until they're _actually opening up their premises_ to be used as vaccine centres before loudly blowing their own trumpets with smug press releases and commemorative beers.  Or, even better, just done the fucking job selflessly without needing to bask in the glow of their own PR.


----------



## Humberto (Jan 3, 2021)

Charity attracts bad guys.


----------



## Raheem (Jan 3, 2021)

Humberto said:


> Charity attracts bad guys.


Emmerdale fan, is it?


----------



## Ground Elder (Jan 19, 2021)




----------



## ddraig (Jan 19, 2021)

Another edgy "punk" fail


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2021)

So how many Brewdog vaccination centres have been opened up all around the country so far, or was it just a truly shameless, opportunistic PR covid cash-in?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 31, 2021)

editor said:


> So how many Brewdog vaccination centres have been opened up all around the country so far, or was it just a truly shameless, opportunistic PR covid cash-in?


Tbf a lot of people offered the government a lot of stuff to help with the COVID crisis without them taking their offers up.


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2021)

S☼I said:


> Tbf a lot of people offered the government a lot of stuff to help with the COVID crisis without them taking their offers up.


Yes, but none I can think of turned it into a marketing opportunity, loudly broadcasting their self-proclaimed selfless generosity via media press releases, while brewing a special beer for the occasion and providing screenshots for added publicity.

Most businesses would consider doing that_ after the offer had been taken up_, not before.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 31, 2021)

S☼I said:


> Tbf a lot of people offered the government a lot of stuff to help with the COVID crisis without them taking their offers up.


Yeah, looks like they just didn't need them. There are loads of sites to vaccinate people from. Good on BrewDog for the rapid offer. Outstanding work


----------



## teuchter (Jan 31, 2021)

As I understand it, it was all ready to go until the govt pulled out because of negativity from internet trolls with a grudge against Scottish companies.

I can't verify the numbers right now but I think it's something like 10 million extra over-80s would have been vaccinated by now, if the Brewdog offer hadn't been sabotaged by these internet trolls, and they would have got a free beer too, which is easy to scoff at for people who don't have to make ends meet on a minimal pension.


----------



## souljacker (Jan 31, 2021)

editor said:


> Most businesses would consider doing that_ after the offer had been taken up_, not before.



I'm not sure you get PR and marketing if you think that.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 31, 2021)

souljacker said:


> I'm not sure you get PR and marketing if you think that.


See also: every post by editor on the thread. And all because of the use of "punk"


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2021)

souljacker said:


> I'm not sure you get PR and marketing if you think that.


Oh I think I do, thanks. How many other multi-million multinational companies - especially ones claiming some sort of independent ethos - can you think of that loudly broadcast their supposed philanthropy (when absolutely nothing had been agreed) _and_ had a free branded product all lined up for the PR lolz?


----------



## editor (Jan 31, 2021)

S☼I said:


> See also: every post by editor on the thread. And all because of the use of "punk"


Well that and the sexism, and the bullying of small companies and now this.


----------



## DJWrongspeed (Feb 18, 2021)

Trying to be virtuous with water madness. Driving cans of water around the country. It comes out of a tap FFS.

Brewdog offer water to vaccine centres


----------



## BoxRoom (Feb 18, 2021)

Because Brewdog is the FIRST place I think of when I need to get me some water.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2021)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Trying to be virtuous with water madness. Driving cans of water around the country. It comes out of a tap FFS.
> 
> Brewdog offer water to vaccine centres


Another shameless attempt at publicity off the back of this pandemic. And how fucking wasteful is water in a can?





> Several vaccination centres have been in touch requesting packaged water from @BrewDog


Yeah, I'm sure they have. Top priority in this weather, no doubt. 

Oh, but wait: 





> If any vaccination centres would like some please get in touch!


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2021)

DJWrongspeed said:


> Trying to be virtuous with water madness. Driving cans of water around the country. It comes out of a tap FFS.
> 
> Brewdog offer water to vaccine centres



This is because people aren't allowed to take their own water into vaccination centres.

Yet another superb move from Brewdog. 

Talk about clutching at straws, Jeezus! You lot crack me up.


----------



## BoxRoom (Feb 18, 2021)

The one thing I like about bottled water is that you can put the lid back on it, and re-use the bottle. The shittiest thing about cans is everything.


----------



## T & P (Feb 18, 2021)

Water in a can is, of course, about seventeen fucking trillion times preferable to plastic bottled water.

Sometimes, just sometimes, a bad company can do something that is not 100% bad.

Jesus fucking wept


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 18, 2021)

Aluminum Cans vs. Plastic Bottles: Which Is Worse for the Environment?
					

Between aluminum and plastic containers, one material is probably worse for environmental health. You might be surprised which one it is.




					www.mentalfloss.com
				




Neither are great. But, if you must have water on a portable container, aluminium is the better choice.

Good work Brewdog, helping the vaccination effort _AND_ thinking of the planet


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2021)

Truly amazed that people are suckered by this transparent corporate PR bullshit from a billion dollar equity-backed multinational, just like the non-existent vaccination centres complete with the Insta-ready commemorative, promo-boosting exclusive special beer.


----------



## Chilli.s (Feb 18, 2021)

Their beer is just flavoured water anyway so no biggie for them to make


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 18, 2021)

Winding up lots of people, while simultaneously producing a product that - while not to everyone’s taste - is very much enjoyed by its fans, is quite a punk thing to do if you think about it.


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2021)

Has anybody mentioned that they are carbon negative now? So when you buy their beer you are actually saving the planet? 

They really are a great model for modern businesses.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Winding up lots of people, while simultaneously producing a product that - while not to everyone’s taste - is very much enjoyed by its fans, is quite a punk thing to do if you think about it.


Punk as fuck! 

They know EXACTLY what they're doing and are doing it superbly.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Winding up lots of people, while simultaneously producing a product that - while not to everyone’s taste - is very much enjoyed by its fans, is quite a punk thing to do if you think about it.


Yes, what's what punk is all about. Expensive products raking in vast profits, keeping equity partners happy, some casual sexism topped off with shameless cash-is on a deadly pandemic.
Rock and roll!



tommers said:


> Has anybody mentioned that they are carbon negative now? So when you buy their beer you are actually saving the planet?


How are you 'saving the planet' when you drink their beer exactly?


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2021)

tommers said:


> So when you buy their beer you are actually saving the planet?



Obviously, by NOT buying an alternative from a non carbon neutral brand. 

Thi is very similar to rocket science in its complexity.


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2021)

editor said:


> How are you 'saving the planet' when you drink their beer exactly?



They work with trusted partners to remove twice as much carbon as making the beer incurs so, for example, if everybody drank their beer then the carbon impact of the entire beer industry would be removed and actually be a positive. As it is they can only do so much in the face of cynicism and negative attitudes. 









						BrewDog Is Officially The First Carbon Negative Beer Business
					

The Scottish multinational brewery and pub chain announced yesterday it became carbon negative, which makes it the world’s first international beer business to reach this status.




					www.forbes.com


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 18, 2021)

Remember, nobody ever made any money from punk


----------



## tommers (Feb 18, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Obviously, by NOT buying an alternative from a non carbon neutral brand.
> 
> Thi is very similar to rocket science in its complexity.



Carbon negative actually Spymaster but your general point stands.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2021)

tommers said:


> They work with trusted partners to remove twice as much carbon as making the beer incurs so, for example, if everybody drank their beer then the carbon impact of the entire beer industry would be removed and actually be a positive. As it is they can only do so much in the face of cynicism and negative attitudes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But you'd agree that it's clearly highly dubious to claim that the planet is being "saved" because people drink their expensive beer, yes?


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Remember, nobody ever made any money from punk


Strawman of the day!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 18, 2021)

editor said:


> Strawman of the day!


Not really. Lots of people made, and continue to make, a great deal of money from the whole punk spirit, lifestyle and fashion aesthetic. Why shouldn’t they?


----------



## 8ball (Feb 18, 2021)

editor said:


> And how fucking wasteful is water in a can?



Much, much less so than water in a bottle - is the answer to that one (you remember Google, right?).

Though I do wonder which vaccination centres these are.  Maybe the drive-through ones. 

If they make too many, I'm sure the Government can find other uses for them (military and emergency rations sometimes use them because of the extended shelf life).

I was given a can of water on a plane once, too.  I think in some countries canned water rather than bottled is more normal, too.


----------



## Raheem (Feb 18, 2021)

editor said:


> Yes, what's what punk is all about. Expensive products raking in vast profits, keeping equity partners happy, some casual sexism topped off with shameless cash-in


Not sure the Sex Pistols actually had equity partners, but other than that...


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Why shouldn’t they?


And do so by putting smiles on people's faces while making some decent quality (if you like that sort of thing) beer.

Anyone unfortunate enough to have been around when actual punk was a thing will recall it being characterised by a bunch of dickheads with silly hairdos, jumping around to shit music and spitting at people. Most people, I'm sure, would agree that the punk movement owes Brewdog an enormous debt of gratitude for the image upgrade.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Not really. Lots of people made, and continue to make, a great deal of money from the whole punk spirit, lifestyle and fashion aesthetic. Why shouldn’t they?


You certainly seem happy at this billion dollar company exploiting it for the own ends. 

Maybe I should see if I can get some equity funding behind me, start putting advertising and sponsorship deals all over this site, pay for some top end PR and really exploit the brand in a way that you seem to celebrate so much. Punk rock! Yay!


----------



## 8ball (Feb 18, 2021)

editor said:


> You certainly seem happy at this billion dollar company exploiting it for the own ends.
> 
> Maybe I should see if I can get some equity funding behind me, start putting advertising and sponsorship deals all over this site, pay for some top end PR and really exploit the brand in a way that you seem to celebrate so much. Punk rock! Yay!



Bit late for that.
We all have regrets in life.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2021)

8ball said:


> Bit late for that.
> We all have regrets in life.


The site has to change with the times to keep relevant, and if the members are now all about corporate cash-ins, bullshit PR and squeezing as much money out of people by parading laughable claims about being punk rock/independent/plucky underdogs, then surely it's time I gave them what they want.

I've got to go now as I'm currently having discussions with the NHS about letting them use my living room as a vaccination centre (PROMOTIONAL PRODUCT COMING SOON) and some hospital administrators keep calling me up and asking me if I can immediately provide some improbably unrelated product   (PROMOTIONAL PRESS RELEASE COMING SOON)


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Feb 18, 2021)

editor said:


> You certainly seem happy at this billion dollar company exploiting it for the own ends.
> 
> Maybe I should see if I can get some equity funding behind me, start putting advertising and sponsorship deals all over this site, pay for some top end PR and really exploit the brand in a way that you seem to celebrate so much. Punk rock! Yay!


After 20 years of putting up with us idiots I certainly wouldn’t begrudge you getting a few quid nowadays


----------



## 8ball (Feb 18, 2021)

editor said:


> The site has to change with the times to keep relevant, and if the members are now all about corporate cash-ins, bullshit PR and squeezing as much money out of people by parading laughable claims about being punk rock/independent/plucky underdogs, then surely it's time I gave them what they want.



I'm pretty certain almost everyone on here has a great deal of respect for how you have stuck to your principles with regard to the running of this site, especially with your stance towards advertising, but when you rail against an openly profit-making company for tweeting about some good deeds it comes over a bit like bitterness.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2021)

8ball said:


> I'm pretty certain almost everyone on here has a great deal of respect for how you have stuck to your principles with regard to the running of this site, especially with your stance towards advertising, but when you rail against an openly profit-making company for tweeting about some good deeds it comes over a bit like bitterness.


You're missing the point quite spectacularly. I'm railing against the way that they're exploiting the pandemic and transparently using it as a means to promote and enhance their PR image/brand.

I'm not convinced _any _vaccination centres rang them up to ask for water ("Nurse: _We need water urgently - who shall we call?_ Doctors in once voice: "_Why a big punk rock brewery of course!"_) and the tweeting of the already-prepared publicity shot of the custom beer can - before a single Brewdog vaccination centre even existed - was more of the same bullshit.

That's what grates. A multinational corporate using sophisticated PR to promote their brand values while actually doing very little/nothing at all.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 18, 2021)

8ball said:


> I'm pretty certain almost everyone on here has a great deal of respect for how you have stuck to your principles with regard to the running of this site, especially with your stance towards advertising, but when you rail against an openly profit-making company for tweeting about some good deeds it comes over a bit like bitterness.


Damn those multi-national corporates offering stuff for free and benefitting from a bit of decent PR! 

Punks!


----------



## 8ball (Feb 18, 2021)

editor said:


> You're missing the point quite spectacularly. I'm railing against the way that they're exploiting the pandemic and transparently using it as a means to promote and enhance their PR image/brand.
> 
> I'm not convinced _any _vaccination centres rang them up to ask for water ("Nurse: _We need water urgently - who shall we call?_ Doctors in once voice: "_Why a big punk rock brewery of course!"_) and the tweeting of the already-prepared publicity shot of the custom beer can before a single Brewdog vaccination centre even existed was more of the same.
> 
> That's what grates. A multinational corporate using sophisticated PR to promote their brand values while actually doing very little/nothing at all.



Seems plausible enough that they heard of some little place that didn't have a ready water supply for waiting patients and decided to make a whole load because its way more cost-effective that way.  Also plausible that they were using canned water anyway due to their aid work in water-stressed areas, so already had the cans (your people need to drink something before the well has been dug).

Their marketing is a bit crass, granted, but it's amusing that so much of your ire is reserved for a company that actually tries to do some good things.


----------



## Raheem (Feb 18, 2021)

8ball said:


> Seems plausible enough that they heard of some little place that didn't have a ready water supply for waiting patients and decided to make a whole load because its way more cost-effective that way.


TBF, no it doesn't. Seems pretty unlikely to me that they've produced anything more than one mock-up can and three more that didn't come out right.


----------



## editor (Feb 18, 2021)

8ball said:


> Seems plausible enough that they heard of some little place that didn't have a ready water supply for waiting patients and decided to make a whole load because its way more cost-effective that way.  Also plausible that they were using canned water anyway due to their aid work in water-stressed areas, so already had the cans (your people need to drink something before the well has been dug).


Possibly, maybe, or not. Probably absolute bullshit though - why else would they be asking if anyone needs the stuff in their tweet if all these centres are ringing them up (you actually believe this?!)?

And how about the non existing vaccination centres (also complete with branded cans and press release) they self promoted? How was that a good thing for anyone other than Brewdog?



8ball said:


> Their marketing is a bit crass, granted, but it's amusing that so much of your ire is reserved for a company that actually tries to do some good things.


There's loads of individuals and companies doing shitloads more than Brewdog will ever do, but they're not turning every small act of kindness into a brand-elevating marketing opportunity. This is ruthlessly exploitative capitalism sold under the cover of philanthropy and I'm surprised so many people are swallowing it wholesale.


----------



## T & P (Mar 19, 2021)

£360m missed out by the Dragons. Ooops... 



> James Watt, BrewDog’s co-founder and CEO, revealed in a recent post on LinkedIn that he and co-founder Martin Dickie applied to appear on Dragon’s Den to pitch their business back in 2008.
> 
> 
> They got as far as a screen test, Watt said, before producers rejected them. “They deemed Martin & myself not investment worthy.” He wrote.
> ...













						BrewDog CEO reveals Dragon's Den investors missed out on £360m
					

The CEO and co-founder of BrewDog has revealed that Dragon's Den investors missed out after producers rejected their screen test.




					www.thedrinksbusiness.com


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 19, 2021)

Punks


----------



## editor (Mar 19, 2021)

T & P said:


> £360m missed out by the Dragons. Ooops...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thank goodness the article also managed to reference the fantasy Covid centres. The cost-nothing bullshit PR gift that just keeps on giving!



> Earlier this year, we reported that BrewDog had been in talks with the government over the use of their pubs as Covid vaccination centres. You can read more on that story here.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 20, 2021)

Brewdog now winning distilling awards.









						Shochu trophy winner: Brewdog Distilling
					

Shochu originally hails from Japan, but it was Scottish punk outfit BrewDog that wowed IWSC judges in 2020 with their Inugami Shochu




					www.iwsc.net


----------



## editor (May 19, 2021)

Who would have thought it! A multinational brewery and pub chain valued at $2bn and one fifth owned by private equity finance is offering 'anarchy.'


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 20, 2021)

editor said:


> Who would have thought it! A multinational brewery and pub chain valued at $2bn and one fifth owned by private equity finance is offering 'anarchy.'
> 
> View attachment 269261


Good burgers though.


----------



## editor (May 20, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Good burgers though.


That's the spirit. Who cares about corporate cultural appropriation by billionaire companies when there's tasty trendy expensive burgers to be bought!


----------



## Teaboy (May 20, 2021)

All the brew dog pubs I've been into have always felt a bit dirty.  Dunno, maybe its just they're busy and struggle to clear up but always seems to be shit everywhere.  Not a place I'd rush to eat in regardless of whether the anarchy was part of a meal deal.


----------



## editor (May 20, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> All the brew dog pubs I've been into have always felt a bit dirty.  Dunno, maybe its just they're busy and struggle to clear up but always seems to be shit everywhere.  Not a place I'd rush to eat in regardless of whether the anarchy was part of a meal deal.


Maybe it's carefully curated edginess and on-trend dirt designed to maintain their edgy, anti-establishment image?


----------



## Spymaster (May 20, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> All the brew dog pubs I've been into have always felt a bit dirty.  Dunno, maybe its just they're busy and struggle to clear up but always seems to be shit everywhere.  Not a place I'd rush to eat in regardless of whether the anarchy was part of a meal deal.


The burgers are very good though.

As far as the anarchy thing goes, they’re about as anarchic as punk was. A true misappropriation of a term if ever there was one. Proper anarchists must have thought they were bellends. Like everyone else.


----------



## Cerv (May 20, 2021)

missing the comma between "burgers, wings"
what more anarchy do you need than a lack of respect for the rules of grammar?


----------



## Spymaster (May 20, 2021)

In other news; it's great to see Brewdog supporting small brewers by stocking their beers in their bars.


----------



## Teaboy (May 20, 2021)

Only tangentially related to the thread but I went into a Sam Smiths pub the other day.  Christ what a mess that pub chain is in.  They were always pretty ropey but you could forgive a lot when the pints were cheap but it was £6 for a pint of their shit cider.  That chain can't be long for this world.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> In other news; it's great to see Brewdog supporting small brewers by stocking their beers in their bars.


Environmentally friendly, support small business, has a cycling club, tasty beer, good burgers and a punk ethos. What’s not to like?


----------



## editor (May 20, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Environmentally friendly, support small business, has a cycling club, tasty beer, good burgers and a punk ethos. What’s not to like?


Man, you've lost sight of the big picture. They're a global, multi billion corporate chain with clever marketing and bullshit PR, not some quaint bedroom business.

And they're about as punk as Boris Johnson.


----------



## alex_ (May 20, 2021)

editor said:


> Man, you've lost sight of the big picture. They're a global, multi billion corporate chain with clever marketing and bullshit PR, not some quaint bedroom business.
> 
> And they're about as punk as Boris Johnson.



they are also cunts


----------



## Spymaster (May 20, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Environmentally friendly, support small business, has a cycling club, tasty beer, good burgers and a punk ethos. What’s not to like?


Well quite. And it's awesome to see a global brand (built on the hard work of patrons and workers) as such a force for good in these modern times of venal consumerism.

The way they've revived and refreshed the punk phenomenon is commendable too. Taking a dirty, aggressive, dead genre, that produced shit music, and breathing new life into it, making it accessible and appealing to non-arseholes is a staggering achievement.


----------



## editor (May 20, 2021)

alex_ said:


> they are also cunts




Correct. Sexist cunts at that. Shocking that anyone can defend this, really.


----------



## teuchter (May 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Proper anarchists must have thought they were bellends. Like everyone else.


This is also what everyone else thinks about "proper anarchists" though.


----------



## ddraig (May 20, 2021)

bUt BuRgerS ThO! *titter


----------



## Spymaster (May 20, 2021)

Doubling-down on their green credentials by moving towards cans-only production too.


----------



## Spymaster (May 20, 2021)

Phwoar!


----------



## Spymaster (May 20, 2021)

How about this doozy!!!


----------



## Spymaster (May 20, 2021)

This thread's made me hungry. Think I might have one today.

Nice bump


----------



## Teaboy (May 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> View attachment 269309
> 
> Phwoar!



What a mess that is.  That's not a sandwich that's just a load of shit someone found on the floor (after not cleaning for 10 days).  Anyway we've had this discussion on burger threads and modern pub burgers are all shit without exception.

If you squint you can see the pepper grinder is covered in covid.


----------



## Spymaster (May 20, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> What a mess that is.  That's not a sandwich that's just a load of shit someone found on the floor (after not cleaning for 10 days).  Anyway we've had this discussion on burger threads and modern pub burgers are all shit without exception.
> 
> If you squint you can see the pepper grinder is covered in covid.



We have had this discussion and we ultimately agreed that you were wrong. Brewdog burgers are a gourmet product championed by Heston Blumenthal, no less. 

Anyway, what do you think of Brewdog's contribution to veganism by single-handedly doubling the number of British vegheads with the introduction of their vegan and hybrid burgers?


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 20, 2021)

No idea what they’re like elsewhere but the burger I had in their B’ham bar was genuinely one of the best I’ve ever had.

That said, we’re kinda spoiled here as we’ve got Original Patty Men which are the best available anywhere


----------



## ddraig (May 20, 2021)

bUt BuRgerS ThO! *titter


----------



## Spymaster (May 20, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No idea what they’re like elsewhere but the burger I had in their B’ham bar was genuinely one of the best I’ve ever had.



They're outstanding pretty much everywhere. Interesting that Brewdog are so highly thought of by so many vegan organisations too, supporting the suspicion that pretty much all vegans have a sneaky burger every now and then.


----------



## Teaboy (May 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> We have had this discussion and we ultimately agreed that you were wrong. Brewdog burgers are a gourmet product championed by Heston Blumenthal, no less.
> 
> Anyway, what do you think of Brewdog's contribution to veganism by single-handedly doubling the number of British vegheads with the introduction of their vegan and hybrid burgers?



The human memory is a strange thing.  I was pretty sure I was right.

I think all the vegan and veg options are great but I don't think they are aimed at vegans or really vege's for that matter. They're aimed at guilt ridden flakes like me. Besides pretty much everywhere has jumped on that band wagon.  Even the never not depressing Fullers menu has several vegan options.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 20, 2021)

ddraig said:


> bUt BuRgerS ThO! *titter


I know in your world we’d all be eating ethically sourced cardboard, but amazingly there are some of us that might base our decision on where to drink in no small part due to the quality of the burgers available therein.


----------



## ddraig (May 20, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I know in your world we’d all be eating ethically sourced cardboard, but amazingly there are some of us that might base our decision on where to drink in no small part due to the quality of the burgers available therein.


Incorrect! try again

Make sure you and fellow bUrGEr lovers buy 2 next time to make up for the pesky vegans and refuseniks now, "that'll learn em!"


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 20, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Incorrect! try again


No, honestly, choosing where to go based on its menu is definitely a thing.


----------



## Spymaster (May 20, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I know in your world we’d all be eating ethically sourced cardboard ...



Don't you believe it.


----------



## ddraig (May 20, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> No, honestly, choosing where to go based on its menu is definitely a thing.


The first part of your shitty assumption son, not the rest


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 20, 2021)

ddraig said:


> The first part of your shitty assumption son, not the rest


Ah, I just assumed you’d ensure any paper based foodstuff would be ethically sourced.  Apologies if this isn’t so.


----------



## MickiQ (May 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> They're outstanding pretty much everywhere. Interesting that Brewdog are so highly thought of by so many vegan organisations too, supporting the suspicion that pretty much all vegans have a sneaky burger every now and then.


I have been know to have had the odd sneaky vegan meal once in a while so I can't hold that against them


----------



## Funky_monks (May 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> View attachment 269310
> 
> How about this doozy!!!



Brioche buns can get to fuck. If I wanted sugar on my burger (or suitable burger substitute cunningly crafted from dust or a fungal mat), I'd put it on.


----------



## Spymaster (May 21, 2021)

Funky_monks said:


> Brioche buns can get to fuck. If I wanted sugar on my burger (or suitable burger substitute cunningly crafted from dust or a fungal mat), I'd put it on.


I actually half agree with you but for different reasons. I think they taste better. The problem is that they tend to lose structural integrity when juiced-up.


----------



## nastyned (Jun 9, 2021)

Who'd have thought it:


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jun 9, 2021)

give me a bad head does that brewdog


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jun 9, 2021)

nastyned said:


> Who'd have thought it:



Struggling to read that on a phone - can you do a quick summary?


----------



## nastyned (Jun 9, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Struggling to read that on a phone - can you do a quick summary?


Does this work: CryptPad


----------



## nastyned (Jun 9, 2021)

It's ex-employees talking about the toxic culture at Brewdog.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 10, 2021)

Someone (how many who knows!?) will be along to excuse/justify it, soon


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2021)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> Struggling to read that on a phone - can you do a quick summary?


Here. It's worth reading in full if you're mindful to defend the company again:


Dear BrewDog,


In the last few weeks, we have witnessed what will hopefully be the start of major change in the beer industry. This has been largely down to the brave acts of many people coming forward to tell their stories, as well as others who have not only shouldered the responsibility for amplifying these stories, but also the enormous burden of the inevitable backlash unleashed upon them for daring to raise their heads above the parapet.

BrewDog have been flagged in a significant number of these allegations. We are not writing this to level further accusations, nor to dispel existing ones; it is down to each and every one of us to decide whether we believe women, or not. Rather, the purpose of this letter is to make known the feelings of former staff regarding the atmosphere fostered at BrewDog, since its inception, in the hope that it might explain why so many allegations have come to light.

BrewDog was, and is, built on a cult of personality. Since day one, you have sought to exploit publicity, both good and bad (and usually with the faces of James and Martin front and centre) to further your own business goals. Your mission might genuinely be to make other people as passionate about craft beer as you are (and in a sense you have succeeded - your fanbase certainly has some true zealots in its ranks), but the ambitions you impressed on your team have always seemed business-led. Growth, at all costs, has always been perceived as the number one focus for the company, and the fuel you have used to achieve it is controversy.

In a post-truth world, you have allowed the ends to justify the means, time and time again. Lies, hypocrisy and deceit can be useful tools; PR campaigns repeated over and over on LinkedIn - until you actually believe them yourselves - is good for driving awareness, and if anyone questions the validity of your claims, you can simply move on to the next campaign. How many more times will we see the stories about sending protest beer to Russia (you didn’t), James and Martin changing their names to Elvis (they didn’t), awarding an Employee of the Month over a sweary can (which was not an accident and was actually approved for print by James), or offering Pawternity leave (which many staff are simply never permitted to take)? Worse, by placing personalities at the centre of your messaging, you have inflated egos and fostered a culture within craft beer that deifies founders, and gives weight to sexist and misogynistic brewers who claim to be standing up for free speech. You have become a lightning rod for some of the worst attitudes present on both the internet, and in real life.

You spent years claiming you wanted to be the best employer in the world, presumably to help you to recruit top talent, but ask former staff what they think of those claims, and you’ll most likely be laughed at. Being treated like a human being was sadly not always a given for those working at BrewDog.

These days, you claim you want to save the planet - an admirable mission, but slightly undermined when you look back over years of vanity projects. Chartering flights across the Atlantic that had to be filled with staff to justify them even going ahead? Brewing an “eco-friendly” saison with glacier water (half of which was dumped down the drain) so the proceeds could go to charity (but only after the donation was slashed because it was too much)? We hope the use of a private jet has come to an end, but it wouldn’t surprise us if it hasn’t.

Forgive us if we feel any of the claims made recently about changing the business seem insincere; for as long as any one of us can remember, we have never seen anything that has made us feel like BrewDog has lived the values it purports to uphold.

It doesn’t matter which part of the business we worked in; production, bartending, sales, operations, packaging, quality, marketing or HR, we all felt that in our day to day working lives, there were at best hurdles, and at worst genuine safety concerns. We felt that no matter how these were raised, the likelihood was we would be met with some variation on “that’s just the way things are”. Sometimes it was linked to James directly, sometimes it was because someone in a position of power felt enabled to act in such a manner.

We believe these toxic attitudes towards junior staff trickled down throughout the business from day one, until they were simply an intrinsic part of the company. So many of us started our jobs there eagerly, already bought into the BrewDog ethos, only to very quickly discover that “fast-paced” meant “unmanageable”, and “challenging” meant “damaging”.

Some people (no names, but as a group we know who they are) quickly discovered that this could be exploited, and allow them to treat other staff however they liked without repercussions - making them feel belittled and/or pressured into working beyond their capacity, and often eventually feeling forced out of the business - because that was perceived as the way the company operated, and if we didn’t like it, we should leave.

 Every single one of us worked with at least one of these people, who often quickly rose through the ranks as someone loyal to James and his preferred ways of working.

Put bluntly, the single biggest shared experience of former staff is a residual feeling of fear. Fear to speak out about the atmosphere we were immersed in, and fear of repercussions even after we have left. Hell, the company once set up a staff committee, under the guise of assembling a team of well-respected individuals to tackle cross-departmental projects, who at their first meeting discovered the actual main task of the group was to address the culture of fear in the business. Well, we can tell you now, you could have asked any single person in the company how to address it, and every one of them could have told you the answer - but you wouldn’t have liked it.

Some of us remain in the industry, some have moved on to pastures new. Some of us were made redundant, some left voluntarily because we felt it was time to get out before we could be pushed out. Regardless of where we are now, or what we are doing, there is not one amongst us who feels entirely safe signing this letter. Yet despite the power your voice carries, and the depth of your pockets when it comes to legal action, we believe it is time for us to share our experience with the world.

Many staff felt unable to sign this, despite moving into new roles in other business sectors. We do not judge them, and we ask that you - and anyone reading this - believe us when we say that the feeling of disappointment, resentment and sadness is shared by hundreds of people. As we have said, we will not make specific accusations here, because quite frankly we cannot risk the wrath of BrewDog’s notoriously trigger-happy legal team; but suffice to say that a significant number of people have admitted they have suffered mental illness as a result of working at BrewDog, and that signing this would leave them feeling extremely vulnerable.

James, this next passage is for you.

It is with you that the responsibility for this rotten culture lies. Your attitude and actions are at the heart of the way BrewDog is perceived, from both inside and out. By valuing growth, speed and action above all else, your company has achieved incredible things, but at the expense of those who delivered your dreams.

In the wake of your success are people left burnt out, afraid and miserable. The true culture of BrewDog is, and seemingly always has been, fear. You go on LinkedIn and claim the buck stops with you, but do you have the guts to look at the team you have built around you and admit that the overwhelming majority of them are quietly afraid that their next mistake could be their last at BrewDog? In the last few weeks, the silence has been deafening - this is not the time to try and quietly wait things out.

Now, for those of you still working at BrewDog.

You have a choice. The next time you are pressured into doing something against your will, or working in such a way that it will affect your mental health, push back. It is absolutely not worth it. The only reason BrewDog has become what it is, is that under immense pressure, good people have done bad things to achieve the job set before them, in such a way that benefits only the company.

Being told to ignore health and safety guidelines? Don’t. Someone’s demanding you send beer to an event in the USA by bypassing customs? Nope. We know sometimes it feels as though you are part of something bigger, something special and unique - but ask yourself, is that worth the shit you have to deal with?

BrewDog - we’re sorry, but you don’t get to spend fourteen years exploiting social media’s lack of interest in nuance or truth, and then shit the bed when it comes back around on you. Now is the time for genuine, meaningful change at BrewDog - and we mean more than starting the search for a Mental Health ambassador (who’ll likely last less than a year after none of their plans are taken seriously) or pointing staff to an HR team who are often perceived to be there solely to protect the company. We mean starting with a genuine apology from anyone and everyone who has worked for BrewDog and treated people like objects; harassing, assaulting, belittling, insulting or gaslighting them. It’s the absolute minimum we should expect from you, and yet we still don’t actually expect to see one. We hope we’re wrong.


Signed, the following former BrewDog team members:

(large list of names followed)


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2021)

They're even worse than I imagined, although I've called them out enough times here for their opportunistic, Covid-exploiting lies, which some seemed only too happy to defend.

Bunch of capitalist cunts, and ones who clearly appear to have been only too happy to exploit their workers.

Oh and here's their response:



> Hey Everyone,
> 
> Just to let you know. We saw the Punkspurpose tweet and we will post a full response soon. On our growth journey we have not always gor things right and we are happy to admit when that is the case. However, we have always had a high performance culture, we have always moved at speed and we have always focussed on growth.
> 
> ...



What the fuck is a "high performance culture"?


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2021)

And there's more about the shitty company - this time trying to rip off taxpayers: 



> Imagine if a multinational corporation — BP, say, or Diageo — threatened to abandon a multimillion-pound investment in Scotland unless local councillors agreed that it could purchase the land needed for its new facilities at only £5,000 an acre.
> 
> I have a hunch that public opinion would reckon that the company concerned was “at it”. The threat to take its business elsewhere would be seen as a sorry, if all too typical, example of corporate blackmail.
> 
> ...


----------



## Gerry1time (Jun 10, 2021)

> On our growth journey we have not always got things right and we are happy to admit when that is the case.



But it's unlikely we can see many instances when that is the case.



> However, we have always had a high performance culture



Performance being something the company and its leaders define, so if you don't do what the company and its leaders want, it's not that the company and its leaders are wrong, it's that you're not a high performer. You can see exactly here where the feelings in that open letter came from.



> we have always moved at speed and we have always focussed on growth.



So the examples of rule bending cited in the open letter become more credible.



> It is fair to say that this type of fast paced and intense environment is definitely not for everyone, but many of our fantastic long term team members have thrived in our culture.



So if you haven't 'thrived' in this culture, then it's you that's to blame. You're not fantastic, nor committed. It's your fault, not ours.



> Our culture is built on rewarding and developing great people and focussing on growing our business .



So just to repeat, if you've not been rewarded or developed by the leadership, then it's very likely you're not a great person.

I presume they had a PR person help them with their statement, but good grief, it's as if they just wanted their statement to confirm the things the open letter suggested.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2021)

Gerry1time said:


> But it's unlikely we can see many instances when that is the case.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Blaming the workers. What a despicable bunch of money grabbing rotters.


----------



## David Clapson (Jun 10, 2021)

I reckon their wiki page needs updating with their workers' views.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 10, 2021)

David Clapson said:


> I reckon their wiki page needs updating with their workers' views.


Would need a Reliable Source, so best wait for it to hit the front page of The Times first.


----------



## seeformiles (Jun 10, 2021)

nastyned said:


> Who'd have thought it:




Well said - although the point about HR is slightly naive. All HR departments IME exist purely to protect the company from damage or loss as their top priority. They espouse “values” but quite blatantly protect utter bastards at the upper end of management for whom these don’t appear to apply. Those who complained were spirited away with hush money, an NDA and 30 mins to say goodbye to workmates. The idea that they exist to protect staff is bullshit.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 10, 2021)

To misquote a friend of mine - "Brewdog are just Wetherspoons for people with mortgages"


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 10, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Doubling-down on their green credentials by moving towards cans-only production too.



I'm only able to respond a bit generally (no time!), but a lot of smaller-scale and independent breweries never can their beer at all, and focus on what traditional brewers have done best historically -- distributing their beer to pubs in casks (which get reused!)

Beer from cask in pub tastes a lot better than from cans anyway, IME and IMO!

(Although during lockdpwn it was all about beer in bottles** for us   )

**The bottles did get recycled though, tbf


----------



## Storm Fox (Jun 10, 2021)

Brewdog, to me, seem to have owners who have a tech company entrepreneur attitude to one of the oldest industries in the world.

From Wikipedia:


> Beer is one of the oldest drinks humans have produced. The first chemically confirmed barley beer dates back to the 5th millennium BC in Iran,



I can't see that being sustainable, as their supporters will move onto the next shiny thing as there is a lot of existing competition. Unlike the tech giants who have innovated new industries or at least made them popular.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 10, 2021)

Storm Fox said:


> Brewdog, to me, seem to have owners who have a tech company entrepreneur attitude to one of the oldest industries in the world.
> 
> From Wikipedia:
> 
> ...



"The next shiny thing" has already arrived. There are tonnes of craft brewers who are better, bolder, more sustainable, more open, less wankery, than Brewdog. They're an odd one to condemn from on high because they did shake up the beer market, they did introduce new and fresh ideas into craft ale, they opened a lot of doors. BUT, somewhere along the way they did the tech company thing, as you call it, by apparently locking themselves away into Planet BrewDog. I know from many articles and stories that Silicon Valley guys can't believe that analogue worlds exist outside their digital utopia, and they'll only think in terms of a post-government, post-tech, post-X world. BrewDog really does seem like that, they only see things their way, and by the sounds of the open letter, had pretty much the same consequence. Men at the top earning millions, poor sods at the bottom getting shafted, and what was a quirky new addition to the supermarket shelves has turned into a monster.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 10, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


> To misquote a friend of mine - "Brewdog are just Wetherspoons for people with mortgages"


This one was funny too


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 10, 2021)

Seems like there's a bit of US stuff from March that didn't make it on to this thread:








						BrewDog Denies Discrimination Allegations After Firing Four LGBTQ Employees
					

Four former BrewDog employees who identify as members of the LGBTQ community say they were let go this week as part of a “change in culture."




					vinepair.com
				












						Can BrewDog Outgrow Its History of Alleged Discrimination?
					

BrewDog, a controversial Scottish brewery, has recently been under fire for accusations of bigotry against women and the LGBTQ+ community




					vinepair.com
				












						American BrewDog bar accused of sacking female, transgender and non-binary staff
					

A BrewDog bar in America has been accused of sacking female, trans and non binary staff due to a 'change in culture'.




					foodanddrink.scotsman.com
				














						Sign the Petition
					

Close BrewDog Indianapolis!!!!!




					www.change.org
				






> On March 8th 2021 (International Women's Day), four Queer individuals were fired from BrewDog Indianapolis. They were let go by a new general manager they had never met, on phone calls that lasted no more than a minute each.
> 
> This was a discriminatory firing. Leah, Kyrrha, Jordan, and Erica are friends (not just ex-coworkers) who see this as an opportunity to not only advocate for themselves, but for each other, anyone who has faced harassment or discrimination in the workplace, and the LGBTQ+ community at large. They have secured legal representation and filed complaints with the EEOC.
> 
> ...


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 10, 2021)

And a paper from the 2019 Drinking Studies conference with a wonderfully academic title:








						Brewing a Neo-Liberal Empire: Intoxicated Masculinity, Anarcho-Capitalism and Pink-Washing in Brewdog's 'Business for Punks'
					

A long-form essay originally delivered at the 2019 Drinking Studies' Liquid Modernities conference in Bournemouth.




					fermenttherich.substack.com


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2021)

Well, isn't this something.

In the past, whenever I've posted anything critical about Brewdog, there's almost always been a swift, dismissive and belittling response from their big fans here, who faithfully parrot their PR bullshit and insist that they're actually a brilliant company and a joy to work for.

And yet, today....


----------



## pinkmonkey (Jun 10, 2021)

Give us a chance - I only just read it!


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 10, 2021)




----------



## alex_ (Jun 10, 2021)

editor said:


> What the fuck is a "high performance culture"?


It’s a excuse for being cunts because they are carbon neutral, London living wage cunts


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 10, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


>



"we absolutely need you to be radically honest about this". Christ.
"our experiences are just as valid as theirs and we need the world to hear our voice too."
"To suggest that it is [a bad place to work] isn't just wrong, it's actually a bit demeaning, and a bit hurtful, to us."
More accessible version of the bosses' crytyping here: CryptPad


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 10, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> "we absolutely need you to be radically honest about this". Christ.
> "our experiences are just as valid as theirs and we need the world to hear our voice too."


Isn't it awful? "Hey fellow young people, you sound angry! And in a real sense, isn't anger punk? We love that you felt exploited, because that's passionate!"


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 10, 2021)




----------



## baldrick (Jun 10, 2021)

What happens to all the people who haven't signed by 10:30?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 10, 2021)

You don't get this from Cloudwater.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 10, 2021)

editor said:


> Well, isn't this something.
> 
> In the past, whenever I've posted anything critical about Brewdog, there's almost always been a swift, dismissive and belittling response from their big fans here, who faithfully parrot their PR bullshit and insist that they're actually a brilliant company and a joy to work for.
> 
> ...


Brewdog are clearly utter cunts. Fuck them, and fuck the way they treat their employees . But you didn't _know that_ and neither did anyone else on here until this. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. And I'm not sure there's been much "parotting of PR bullshit" or "insisting they're a brilliant company and a joy to work for", either


----------



## ddraig (Jun 10, 2021)

S☼I said:


> Brewdog are clearly utter cunts. Fuck them, and fuck the way they treat their employees . But you didn't _know that_ and neither did anyone else on here until this. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. And I'm not sure there's been much "parotting of PR bullshit" or "insisting they're a brilliant company and a joy to work for", either


 oh dear, there have been a few examples of how they treat their employees on this very thread, and yes there have been a gleeful gang parroting the PR, and don't forget the BuRgERs!
Also, again, from 2011 Punk brewery just as sexist and homophobic as the industry they rail against


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 10, 2021)

I reckon there might've been a few indications before now. From a very quick search of the thread:


equationgirl said:


> A former employee took them to tribunal because they refused him reasonable adjustments to his work environment for his blindness. They might pay living wage but they're not the bastions of corporate good you're claiming.
> 
> If mistreating a disabled employer isn't the mark of a cunt I don't know what is.





editor said:


> "Fiercely defiant"
> 
> Shame they couldn't put as much effort into looking after their employees and making sure they're happy at work, what with all the fat profits they're pocketing. Still, it's all punk rock maaaaaan!
> 
> ...


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 10, 2021)

S☼I said:


> Brewdog are clearly utter cunts. Fuck them, and fuck the way they treat their employees . But you didn't _know that_ and neither did anyone else on here until this. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. And I'm not sure there's been much "parotting of PR bullshit" or "insisting they're a brilliant company and a joy to work for", either


I knew it when they were taken to employment tribunal for disability discrimination a while back. It's not hindsight, it's vindication.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 10, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> I knew it when they were taken to employment tribunal for disability discrimination a while back. It's not hindsight, it's vindication.


Aye, and good. Haven't read much of the thread, I'm glad they're getting a shoeing.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 10, 2021)

S☼I said:


> Aye, and good. Haven't read much of the thread, I'm glad they're getting a shoeing.


Maybe best to not make claims before reading then


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jun 10, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Maybe best to not make claims before reading then


Now where's the fun in that?


----------



## nastyned (Jun 10, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


> You don't get this from Cloudwater.



Cloudwater are however getting beers sold in Tesco contract brewed by Brewdog.


----------



## nastyned (Jun 10, 2021)




----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2021)

BBC coverage:









						Ex-Brewdog staff allege culture of fear at brewer
					

Former employees allege "cult of personality" in firm and claim "toxic attitude" to junior staff.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 10, 2021)

The letter Brewdog have put out in response is truly appalling.


----------



## 8ball (Jun 10, 2021)

elbows said:


> BBC coverage:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Having worked at a startup fronted by a “dynamic duo”, I expect this cult of personality stuff, as well as a good bit of toxicity, is a pretty common element.  

With my experience it wasn’t the founders that were especially the source of said toxicity so much as a base of young staff some of whom gained a lot of power very quickly, and some of these built little fiefdoms with mottoes such as “your chief duty is loyalty to your leader” (possibly paraphrasing a little from memory, but not shitting you).

This was a new industry at the time (as opposed to brewing), though.  

Will be interested to see what form “punk contrition” takes, especially as things get leaked along the way.


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2021)

8ball said:


> Will be interested to see what form “punk contrition” takes, especially as things get leaked along the way.


Can we show them the way by nailing their bollocks to a plank?


----------



## 8ball (Jun 10, 2021)

elbows said:


> Can we show them the way by nailing their bollocks to a plank?



I think it’s more “punk” if they nail their own bollocks to a plank.  Entirely of their own free will and not influenced by any implicit threat in any way whatsoever, obv.


----------



## elbows (Jun 10, 2021)

8ball said:


> I think it’s more “punk” if they nail their own bollocks to a plank.  Entirely of their own free will and not influenced by any implicit threat in any way whatsoever, obv.


Yeah thats what I was hinting at really. But even with the punks there was a considerable following by others of trends and fashions that early punks established, and someone needs to get that started in order for them to follow.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 10, 2021)




----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


>



Sure there's a downfall parody being made


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 10, 2021)




----------



## billy_bob (Jun 10, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> The letter Brewdog have put out in response is truly appalling.



Just the opening two words scream 'They're right - we're utter CUNTS!' to me.

'Hey Everyone' - aka, look how chilled and totally like non-corporate we are even when our own staff are telling the world what ruthless pricks we are, keeping up the 'we're your unconventional mates' facade even while they shed a few crocodile tears about how we've really let you down, maaan, sadface.

Fucking dreadful stuff.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 10, 2021)

And that's a _huge _list of signatories to the original letter, for a company that size.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jun 10, 2021)

Their beers shit and tastes of tin cans


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## dessiato (Jun 10, 2021)

Not in any way intending to support them, but didn't a large multinational take them over a few years ago?


----------



## splonkydoo (Jun 10, 2021)

their beer is awful pish anyway


----------



## belboid (Jun 10, 2021)

dessiato said:


> Not in any way intending to support them, but didn't a large multinational take them over a few years ago?


Wanky equity firm bought 22%, the boys own 47 between them.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 10, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Sure there's a downfall parody being made


I really really hope there is a downfall parody being made.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 10, 2021)

dessiato said:


> Not in any way intending to support them, but didn't a large multinational take them over a few years ago?


No, they got an equity investment. That personally made them millions of pounds. Now they bang on about how totes amazeballs they are for paying Living Wage.

Cunts.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 10, 2021)

So Brewdog cant ogainse a staff party then😈😂?


----------



## David Clapson (Jun 10, 2021)




----------



## David Clapson (Jun 10, 2021)

Henceforth, let the shameful BrewDog be forever known as PissChimp.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 10, 2021)

An update on Instagram about "Tipjar"


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 10, 2021)

Can't get the post to link. Hang on


----------



## teuchter (Jun 10, 2021)

S☼I said:


> Brewdog are clearly utter cunts. Fuck them, and fuck the way they treat their employees . But you didn't _know that_ and neither did anyone else on here until this. Hindsight's a wonderful thing. And I'm not sure there's been much "parotting of PR bullshit" or "insisting they're a brilliant company and a joy to work for", either


There's just some rather literal minded people on this thread, that's all.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 11, 2021)

A couple of summers ago I was on the train home from work and some bloke was sat behind me on the phone. I gathered (from earwigging) he was a brewer (if that's what they are called) and he was absolutely nailing Brewdog owners and they way they treated people. He was talking about them being dodge with money and all sorts. I thought at the time it sounded like a good story for a journalist to get hold of. I established he'd worked for them and 'settled' some financial issues with them after a lot of fighting for it. He wasn't being quiet about it. I wanted 20 mins kip.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 11, 2021)

Seems like a tough week at the BD office


----------



## belboid (Jun 11, 2021)

Have they ditched that letter from ‘happy employees’ that the bosses write yet?


----------



## Part 2 (Jun 11, 2021)

Recruiting now for this hotel in Manchester's old Fountain Street jobcentre.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 11, 2021)

Screenshot-20210611-191252-2
					

Image Screenshot-20210611-191252-2 hosted in ImgBB




					ibb.co


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 11, 2021)




----------



## BillRiver (Jun 11, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


>




I get really irritated when people say "I would like to apologise", and then don't actually apologise.

The words he's looking for are "I am sorry".

And as for him "feeling that" the responsibility sits with him - that's because you are responsible, you little shit!

"Going forward" I would like you to flush yourself down the toilet, immediately.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 11, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I get really irritated when people say "I would like to apologise", and then don't actually apologise.
> 
> The words he's looking for are "I am sorry".
> 
> ...


"good cop" boss


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2021)

ddraig said:


> "good cop" boss


There are no good cops and there are no good bosses


----------



## ddraig (Jun 11, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> There are no good cops and there are no good bosses


Please do note the " "


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 11, 2021)

ddraig said:


> Please do note the " "


I did


----------



## Raheem (Jun 11, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> There are no good cops and there are no good bosses


Officer Crabtree in Allo Allo. Not sure if he was really a cop though.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 11, 2021)

BillRiver that irritates me too - just say I'm sorry and fucking mean it. Then do better.

Also, not that he did this but using the phrase 'I didn't mean to' in conjunction with the apology. Whilst acceptable from a small child who is too young to know better, it's just a pathetic attempt at dodging responsibility in anyone over the age of 12.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 11, 2021)

TBF, "I'd like to apologise", to my ears, is pretty much the same as "sorry". Although I expect it's though gritted teeth and on advice of accountants in this case, either way.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 11, 2021)

Raheem said:


> TBF, "I'd like to apologise", to my ears, is pretty much the same as "sorry". Although I expect it's though gritted teeth and on advice of accountants in this case, either way.


On the advice of lawyers I would expect, rather than accountants. The equity partners might have had an opinion too.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 11, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> On the advice of lawyers I would expect, rather than accountants. The equity partners might have had an opinion too.


Expect the equity partners don't say very much, due to having safety pins through their lips.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 11, 2021)

Raheem said:


> Expect the equity partners don't say very much, due to having safety pins through their lips.


Iirc it might be s hedge fund, they won't like this turn of events, I'm going to check...

It's s private equity group called TSG Consumer Partners, who also own Pabst.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 11, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Iirc it might be s hedge fund, they won't like this turn of events, I'm going to check...
> 
> It's s private equity group called TSG Consumer Partners, who also own Pabst.


Brewdog's equity partners, ready to do some damage limitation:


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 12, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Brewdog's equity partners, ready to do some damage limitation:
> View attachment 273030


I can hear them all now, singing White Riot through their helmet intercoms...


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> I can here them all now, singing White Riot through their helmet intercoms...


Where have all the boot boys gone


----------



## Brainaddict (Jun 12, 2021)

Am I surprised to discover that the owners of Brewdog are cunts to their workers? No.

Is a box of four Hazy Jane for £4.50 that tastes as good as many more genuinely 'craft' beers at three times the price still the best value IPA option available in many shops? Yes 

Are the two points above related to each other? Probably


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 12, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> Am I surprised to discover that the owners of Brewdog are cunts to their workers? No.
> 
> Is a box of four Hazy Jane for £4.50 that tastes as good as many more genuinely 'craft' beers at three times the price still the best value IPA option available in many shops? Yes
> 
> Are the two points above related to each other? Probably


The best value. I bet you eat at mcd's and shop at Wilko's too. You know the price of everything but the value of nothing


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 12, 2021)

Brainaddict said:


> Are the two points above related to each other? Probably


You made two points? I'm having trouble finding _one_.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2021)

It was apparent from the very start that the owners were a bunch of Grade A shitheads


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 12, 2021)

Got to say that the way that Brewdog are dealing with this is highly impressive.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jun 12, 2021)

Always as punk as Watneys


----------



## bmd (Jun 12, 2021)

Always thought they were as dodgy as fuck. I just hope their staff can get other jobs with no bother.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


>



Just let this all sink in:



> 61 former employees, plus a minimum of 45 others who “did not feel safe” to include their names or initials, levied numerous damaging accusations at the brewery.





> In 2017 BrewDog threatened legal action to prevent a bar from using the term “punk” in its name. Despite being a vocal critic of the behaviour of large corporations, raised an objection to plans by music promoter Tony Green to open a bar in Leeds called Draft Punk. Green, who says the name was a tongue-in-cheek reference to French dance music act Daft Punk, said the “intimidating” threat contravened the punk movement spirit that BrewDog claims to espouse.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jun 12, 2021)

Chilli.s said:


> Always as punk as Watneys



there was an attempt to revive the watneys brand a year or two back.

i think it was some sort of hipster joke...


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 12, 2021)

editor said:


> It was apparent from the very start that the owners were a bunch of Grade A shitheads
> 
> View attachment 273093



Ew.

I'm trying to think who a publicity shot like that is even meant to appeal to. I mean, men with the sexual maturity of me as a 13-year-old heavy metal fan who hadn't yet been within 20 paces of a real-life woman might _like _it, but even they'd be a bit _embarrassed _to, right? Who on earth is going to think the brand is more cool than they did before as result of seeing it? Is it a hipster thing? Like, look at us all Motley Crue but it's OK because we _know _how unacceptable it is.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 12, 2021)

.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 12, 2021)

Brewdog in remaining utterly shit and uncool shocker!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 13, 2021)

This sounds like a great time to be really punk and give the business to your staff.


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 13, 2021)

So, just for clarity: these two, who weren't even born when it happened, have tried to claim the word "punk" as part of their "brand"? Twats!


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 13, 2021)

editor said:


> It was apparent from the very start that the owners were a bunch of Grade A shitheads
> 
> View attachment 273093



Oh dear! Btw: are the two "gents" in this pic models or the actual Brewdog twats?


----------



## tommers (Jun 13, 2021)

isvicthere? said:


> So, just for clarity: these two, who weren't even born when it happened, have tried to claim the word "punk" as part of their "brand"? Twats!


Yes we've been angry about it for eight years. 



isvicthere? said:


> Oh dear! Btw: are the two "gents" in this pic models or the actual Brewdog twats?



That picture was first posted on the first page of this thread, eight years ago.

This thread will never die.


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 13, 2021)

tommers said:


> Yes we've been angry about it for eight years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So, you were angry before l noticed? Top banana! It's like the hipster who burned his mouth on a pizza, because he ate it before it was cool.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 13, 2021)

tommers said:


> Yes we've been angry about it for eight years.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You've cursed it now


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 13, 2021)

isvicthere? said:


> Oh dear! Btw: are the two "gents" in this pic models or the actual Brewdog twats?


Yes, they are the founders.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 13, 2021)

isvicthere? said:


> So, you were angry before l noticed? Top banana! It's like the hipster who burned his mouth on a pizza, because he ate it before it was cool.


Yes, because disability discrimination and treating your staff like shit along with marketing campaigns based on sexism (amongst other things) are totes hilarious.


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 13, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Yes, because disability discrimination and treating your staff like shit along with marketing campaigns based on sexism (amongst other things) are totes hilarious.


 ????


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 13, 2021)

isvicthere? said:


> ????


You appeared to be making light of the situation. I was pointing out why some of us think Brewdog are cunts for their behaviour, especially after 8 years of this shit.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 13, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Recruiting now for this hotel in Manchester's old Fountain Street jobcentre.
> 
> View attachment 272967


Those boards are crying out for a bit of graffiti.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2021)

Dystopiary said:


> Those boards are crying out for a bit of graffiti.


They're only displaying downright lies anyway





> Watt said in a statement: “We’ve made it here by shaking up brewing and crafting a community owned business that is 100% powered by people. This marks a new dawn, welcome to the new Brewdog.”











						Brewdog rebrands, exchanges old cans for equity - The Drinks Business
					

Brewdog has completely rebranded its packaging and is asking drinkers to return old cans in exchange for shares.




					www.thedrinksbusiness.com


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 14, 2021)

editor said:


> They're only displaying downright lies anyway
> 
> View attachment 273384
> 
> ...


A new dawn? Get to fuck.

Although it's interesting that they were giving shares away before the pandemic.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 14, 2021)

That picture fails on so many levels what is it meant to be some sort of 50 shades of grey pastiche? punks don't wear Jackets and Ties. Shitty hipster company turns out to be shitty my local Brew The Best of Sussex | Harvey's Brewery  been making beer since 1790 Back when craft and artisan meant something and not a twat in leather apron with a stupid haircut selling something overpriced.
Dozens queue to get their hands on city's favourite hot cross buns this is an artisan bakery when people queue for an hour you know its good no man buns no leather aprons just really good food.


----------



## Funky_monks (Jun 14, 2021)

likesfish said:


> That picture fails on so many levels what is it meant to be some sort of 50 shades of grey pastiche? punks don't wear Jackets and Ties. Shitty hipster company turns out to be shitty my local Brew The Best of Sussex | Harvey's Brewery  been making beer since 1790 Back when craft and artisan meant something and not a twat in leather apron with a stupid haircut selling something overpriced.
> Dozens queue to get their hands on city's favourite hot cross buns this is an artisan bakery when people queue for an hour you know its good no man buns no leather aprons just really good food.


This is one of the reason why it perplexes me that the craft beer movement caught on so much in Britain. We already have local breweries, and whilst there might be slightly less of them, they very much exist. The local I grew up in always had a beer from Hampshire (King Alfred's - wessex breweries, if I recall), then Badger (Dorset), Butts (Berkshire)and Sussex (Unsurprisingly from Sussex). 
All they seem to offer is IPA that they have made incorrectly so that it ends up like a lagery thing that they've shoved loads of citra hops in.


----------



## salem (Jun 14, 2021)

It's always seemed about telling a story and the type of bars as much as anything to me. A cooler than CAMRA Americanisation of ale culture sold back to us as something fresh.

Where as the old skool beer types would just make it and shut up (or at a push bore on a bit) the 'craft' types act like they're changing the fucking world with their _passion for brewing_ rather than just making a bloody beer as people have done for millennia.


----------



## Funky_monks (Jun 14, 2021)

salem said:


> It's always seemed about telling a story and the type of bars as much as anything to me. An cooler than CAMRA Americanisation of ale culture sold back to us as something fresh.
> 
> Where as the old skool beer types would just make it and shut up (or at a push bore on a bit) the 'craft' types act like they're changing the fucking world with their _passion for brewing_ rather than just making a bloody beer as people have done for millennia.


I remember coming across bottled "Tanglefoot" (I'd only ever had it on draught) and it had tasting notes on the back (this would have been in the early 2000s). I was mildly baffled by that.
"Tastes a bit like you've slept in your dad's greenhouse because you dropped your keys somewhere during the evening"


----------



## souljacker (Jun 14, 2021)

Puddy_Tat said:


> there was an attempt to revive the watneys brand a year or two back.
> 
> i think it was some sort of hipster joke...


I wish it would come back. Then people would stop looking at me blankly when I tell people my belly 'isn't a 6 pack, it's a Watneys party 7'


----------



## Elpenor (Jun 14, 2021)

A lot of my mates are craft beer lovers. I don’t know why you’d want to drink overpriced coke-can sized beer with cartoon packaging with a gimmicky ingredient -liquorice allsorts IPA, toilet duck milk stout etc


----------



## isvicthere? (Jun 14, 2021)

souljacker said:


> I wish it would come back. Then people would stop looking at me blankly when I tell people my belly 'isn't a 6 pack, it's a Watneys party 7'



Ah, a Party Seven! A bastard to open, as l recall.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 14, 2021)

likesfish said:


> queue for an hour you know its good no man buns no leather aprons just really good food.


They should use that as their advertising.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 14, 2021)

Funky_monks said:


> I remember coming across bottled "Tanglefoot" (I'd only ever had it on draught) and it had tasting notes on the back (this would have been in the early 2000s). I was mildly baffled by that.
> "Tastes a bit like you've slept in your dad's greenhouse because you dropped your keys somewhere during the evening"


Like tomatoes?


----------



## two sheds (Jun 14, 2021)

isvicthere? said:


> Ah, a Party Seven! A bastard to open, as l recall.


One of those sharp triangular push-down thingies at each side of the can, sorted


----------



## likesfish (Jun 15, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> They should use that as their advertising.


They don’t need to advertise 3 schools within walking distance kids are addicted to heir sausage rolls 😂

There’s a poncy artisan bakery a few streets away if you like that sort of thing


----------



## Funky_monks (Jun 15, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Like tomatoes?


Tomatoes and shame.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 15, 2021)

Funky_monks said:


> Tomatoes and shame.


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2021)

More then 250 current/former employees have now signed the letter 









						BrewDog boss speaks out after allegations of 'toxic culture' at firm
					

CEO and co-founder of BrewDog, James Watt, has spoken out after allegations made against the beer firm by ex-employees.




					www.thedrinksbusiness.com
				




Meanwhile, in horse/door/bolted news:



> Britain's largest craft brewer BrewDog has parachuted in a woman to be the first chair of its board as it tries to draw a line under allegations of sexism and a 'culture of fear' at the firm.
> 
> The company – touted as a £1.85billion candidate to float on the stock market – has hired Blythe Jack, managing director of TSG Consumer Partners, The Mail on Sunday can reveal.
> 
> ...











						New chairwoman for beer firm BrewDog in sexism storm
					

The company - touted as a £1.85billion candidate to float on the stock market - has hired Blythe Jack, managing director of TSG Consumer Partners, we can reveal.




					www.thisismoney.co.uk


----------



## splonkydoo (Jun 16, 2021)

Good. Their beer is still pish.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 16, 2021)

Desperately casting around for help to make them seem less shit


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 16, 2021)

Over 300 signatories now (and rising):


----------



## alex_ (Jun 16, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> Desperately casting around for help to make them seem less shit




this feels like it’s going pretty badly wrong for brewdog



oh well


----------



## Brainaddict (Jun 17, 2021)

I've (accidentally) seen FB a few times live so I can really feel her accent and tone and facial expression in those tweets and it just makes them better.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 17, 2021)




----------



## BillRiver (Jun 17, 2021)

Exit interviews are no good if the employee is relying on you for a reference. The power imbalance makes it hard to be honest. Although a delayed exit interview, after they've got a new job and references have been received by their new employer, could be.

The anonymous reviews, if genuinely anonymous, and the independent review, if genuinely independent and rigorous, sound positive.

I wonder what Punks With Purpose will feel about this, and how they'll respond.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 17, 2021)

Well, I didn’t have to wonder for long.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 17, 2021)

And also:


----------



## nastyned (Jun 20, 2021)

News on the venture capitalists that own nearly a quarter of the company: Revealed: Nearly a quarter of BrewDog's shares held by tax haven firms, with former Vote Leave director among investors


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2021)

nastyned said:


> News on the venture capitalists that own nearly a quarter of the company: Revealed: Nearly a quarter of BrewDog's shares held by tax haven firms, with former Vote Leave director among investors


They really are despicable frauds. 



> It has enjoyed a meteoric rise thanks in large part to its self-proclaimed punk ethos, positioning itself as a brash upstart with a disregard for convention.
> 
> But The Scotsman can reveal that nearly a quarter of BrewDog’s shares are owned by obscure partnerships based in one of the world’s most notorious tax havens, with a pro-Brexit Conservative donor who served as the chair of Vote Leave’s finance committee among its most prominent investors.
> 
> ...


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 21, 2021)

"about as punk as croquet" - I like that line.


----------



## nastyned (Jun 26, 2021)

More in the Financial Times: 





__





						Subscribe to read | Financial Times
					

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




					www.ft.com


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 28, 2021)

Winner of BrewDog’s ‘solid gold’ beer can finds prize is made largely of brass

"A man who won a “solid gold” can of BrewDog beer has been left disappointed after the prize, which the Scottish brewery claims is worth £15,000, turned out to be largely made of brass."

"Craig, who said he had hoped to fund his wedding by selling the gold, discovered the can was only plated with the precious metal after asking for a certificate from BrewDog.
“Sales of Punk presumably went through the roof,” said Craig.
“You saw people claiming that that they’d ordered 20 cases to stock up, all on the basis of it being a ‘solid gold’ can.
“I can’t imagine a similar frenzy for a novelty can, which is what it ended up being.”"


----------



## editor (Jun 28, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Winner of BrewDog’s ‘solid gold’ beer can finds prize is made largely of brass
> 
> "A man who won a “solid gold” can of BrewDog beer has been left disappointed after the prize, which the Scottish brewery claims is worth £15,000, turned out to be largely made of brass."
> 
> ...


What a scummy company.



> Emails shared with the Guardian by Craig show that he initially struggled to strike up communication about the issue. He contacted customer services to ask about the discrepancy, only to have his email account blocked.
> 
> Craig said he felt particularly let down because he was an early investor in BrewDog who had often defended the company and had been sceptical of criticism it received from a group of ex-employees who spoke of a “culture of fear” at the brewery earlier this month.
> 
> “This piece of the puzzle fits in and makes me change my mind,” he said.



And listen to this 'typo' bullshit:



> The certificate they sent said it was gold-plated but they promoted it as solid gold. When I contacted them they told me the ‘solid gold’ claim was an error.”
> 
> Tweets posted by BrewDog when the draw launched in November told entrants they could be one of ten customers to win a ‘solid gold’ can if they bought cases of Punk IPA.
> 
> Bosses told Mark the claim was a typo but insisted the value was due to its rarity, with only 50 produced, and the cost and quality of the cans.



https:// www. thescottishsun.co.uk/news/7318747/brewdog-competition-winner-gold-can/


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 28, 2021)

.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 28, 2021)




----------



## Chilli.s (Jun 28, 2021)

More punky wankers than willy wonkers


----------



## baldrick (Jun 28, 2021)

That's fraudulent, surely? I know they are now claiming 'solid gold' was never referenced in the t's and c's but it was all over the marketing and social media. I wonder what advertising standards would have to say about it?


----------



## Storm Fox (Jun 28, 2021)

baldrick said:


> That's fraudulent, surely? I know they are now claiming 'solid gold' was never referenced in the t's and c's but it was all over the marketing and social media. I wonder what advertising standards would have to say about it?


The tweet says the can is worth £15k, so even if it's not solid gold, the winner should be getting £15k. Although I expect Brewdog will win in any court case.


----------



## pug (Jun 28, 2021)




----------



## Raheem (Jun 29, 2021)

Storm Fox said:


> The tweet says the can is worth £15k, so even if it's not solid gold, the winner should be getting £15k. Although I expect Brewdog will win in any court case.


Without knowing all the details, I don't think they would. I think courts would generally say that if you offer a prize, the prize needs to be what you say it will be. A typo excuse is not going to work. They'll probably just pay him the 15k following the first solicitor's letter.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

Raheem said:


> Without knowing all the details, I don't think they would. I think courts would generally say that if you offer a prize, the prize needs to be what you say it will be. A typo excuse is not going to work. They'll probably just pay him the 15k following the first solicitor's letter.


This...
"We made a typo but because we're really nice here's 15k"
You couldn't buy any sort of publicity for that tiny amount of money.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 29, 2021)

Proving the saying 'Where there's muck there's brass' in several ways at once...


----------



## teuchter (Jun 29, 2021)

It seems like they are giving away a free brass can, plated onto the inside of the solid gold one, which is actually more than they advertised so I don't see why everyone's getting worked up about this.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 29, 2021)

Just when you think they can't get any more scummy, they do something like that. A typo my arse - a typo would be a wrong letter or spelling mistake, no way would it be a phrase repeated all over social media time and time again. Are they claiming there was no proofreading, no checking, no approval of copy?

I smell shite.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> This...
> "We made a typo but because we're really nice here's 15k"



That's what I'd do. And hope that the other cunts I gave brass cans to don't read the news.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 29, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Winner of BrewDog’s ‘solid gold’ beer can finds prize is made largely of brass
> 
> "A man who won a “solid gold” can of BrewDog beer has been left disappointed after the prize, which the Scottish brewery claims is worth £15,000, turned out to be largely made of brass."
> 
> ...


If I read or watched a work of fiction about a company who sell themselves on their shiny attractive appearance, concealing a less attractive reality, who marketed a gold/brass can like that, I'd think "fuck me, that's a bit of a heavy-handed metaphor".


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 29, 2021)

New advertising slogan:  BrewDog - doesn't do exactly what it says on the tin


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2021)

billy_bob said:


> New advertising slogan:  BrewDog - doesn't do exactly what it says on the tin


Brewdog: buy ronseal if you want something you can trust


----------



## Chilli.s (Jun 29, 2021)

Brewdog, gold on the outside, but still piss on the inside


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2021)

Brass cans for brass necks


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2021)

Where there's brass there's muck


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 29, 2021)

Brewdog. Shinier than a turd sprayed gold.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 29, 2021)

'Solid gold'?

Easy action!


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 29, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> 'Solid gold'?
> 
> Easy action!


I'd been sat here trying to think of an "Equity for Post-Punks" joke:

"Make friends quick buy them beer/
You never know when you’re gonna lose them" from Cheeseburger sort of fits, I suppose


----------



## DaveCinzano (Jun 29, 2021)

To hell with Punk IPA, we'll get drunk on cheap wine!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 29, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> To hell with Punk IPA, we'll get drunk on cheap wine!


Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow someone may buy you a brewdog


----------



## Chilli.s (Jun 29, 2021)

What's more punk than piss in a can

If I ran a competition win a Ferrari, then gave a matchbox toy and an oh missprint apology, thats serious deception.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 29, 2021)

Now you put it that way, it's quite Viz:


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2021)

Brewdog: Watchdog urged to probe solid gold can prize claim
					

The brewery company could be in hot water as winners dispute the value of the "solid gold" beer cans.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




Not all that glitters is gold. And even their gold is mainly brass.


----------



## billy_bob (Jun 29, 2021)

Cool - a legal dog fight, watchdog vs Brewdog


----------



## steveo87 (Jun 29, 2021)

It's my stag do in March, so I want to go in a beer tour. I said this to my best man. 

"Sound, BrewDog do beer tasting."

Fuck sake.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 29, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Brewdog: buy ronseal if you want something you can trust


Even their cans are flimsier these days, and it doesn't take much to get the lid off. Bloody capitalism.


----------



## baldrick (Jun 29, 2021)

Brewdog: Watchdog urged to probe solid gold can prize claim
					

The brewery company could be in hot water as winners dispute the value of the "solid gold" beer cans.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




The ASA are on it. I think Brewdog are going to be in a bit of trouble here 😂


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

baldrick said:


> Brewdog: Watchdog urged to probe solid gold can prize claim
> 
> 
> The brewery company could be in hot water as winners dispute the value of the "solid gold" beer cans.
> ...


They're absolutely going to have to cough up (assuming they did state 'solid gold'. Brass with gold plating isn't solid gold, and isn't worth 15k


----------



## nick (Jun 29, 2021)

The link above is on the front page of the BBC new web site (and second most read on that site) 

You can't buy publicity like that


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> They're absolutely going to have to cough up (assuming they did state 'solid gold'. Brass with gold plating isn't solid gold, and isn't worth 15k


Collector’s value.

I have a pair of my underpants worth 1 million. Collector’s value. Cause I said so. What do you mean valuations don’t work like that?!


----------



## Cerv (Jun 29, 2021)

it's less than the company spends a year hiring a private jet from one of the owners. this is spectacularly petty to stiff their competition winners like this.


----------



## likesfish (Jun 29, 2021)

£15k for a gold plated beer can spun as modern art possibly 🙄 but otherwise they are screwed  and rightly so.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 29, 2021)

I could claim my flat is wort a million quid because it's more than just the materials that constructed it and has over a hundred years of social history in its bones. That argument is  pure shite though, just like theirs.

Did they really think nobody would find out?


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2021)

They also offered 10k of shares.  Not 10000 shares or whatever, but explicitly £10,0000.   I trust they have increased the number given so it still totals that value given the inevitable drop in their value.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

Not having been interested much at all, not a sophisticated beer person me, for some reason I found and read this long thing about Brewdog yesterday









						The aggressive, outrageous, infuriating (and ingenious) rise of BrewDog | Jon Henley
					

The long read: Once known more for its stunts than its beers, the ‘punk’ Scottish brewer is now the UK’s fastest-growing drinks company. You have a problem with that?




					www.theguardian.com
				




Its really old but it’s a good article. Interesting even if you just like bog standard lager like me.

In that context this latest ‘scandal’ is just more of exactly what their key to success has been.
 The hype is not a mistake it’s the point.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Not having been interested much at all, not a sophisticated beer person me, for some reason I found and read this long thing about Brewdog yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Indeed. I have a hunch that the kind of "lads" who like Brewdog, also like Boris Alexander de Pfeffle Johnson, and for similar, shite, reasons.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

Have a read of that long thing, it’s basically a background to the whole craft beer thing but also clearly shows that if they hadn’t done gross stunts they’d just be another one of thousands of these new little breweries that have sprung up in the past decade.
Their success is pretty much an indictment of our whole internet fuelled shallow signalling culture it’s not really so much about them but a wider thing.

This has probably all been said already, I’m not reading the thread I like peroni


----------



## belboid (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Have a read of that long thing, it’s basically a background to the whole craft beer thing but also clearly shows that if they hadn’t done gross stunts they’d just be another one of thousands of these new little breweries. Their success is pretty much an indictment of our whole internet fuelled shallow signalling culture it’s not really so much about them but a wider thing.


It’s an age old technique - see Benetton in days gone by.  It works for a while but then becomes old hat and boring.  See also Benetton (if you can, I just had to check they were still going).


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

baldrick said:


> Brewdog: Watchdog urged to probe solid gold can prize claim
> 
> 
> The brewery company could be in hot water as winners dispute the value of the "solid gold" beer cans.
> ...


Shame they can't look into their despicable attempts to cash on in Covid with their fictional Brewdog vaccination centres and free (branded) water.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Have a read of that long thing, it’s basically a background to the whole craft beer thing but also clearly shows that if they hadn’t done gross stunts they’d just be another one of thousands of these new little breweries that have sprung up in the past decade.
> Their success is pretty much an indictment of our whole internet fuelled shallow signalling culture it’s not really so much about them but a wider thing.


Your analysis is spot on - there's nothing particularly worse about them than any other company and it's the people that hype the outrage up on internet forums and so on, who are responsible for all the bad stuff that comes out. I've done a back of the envelope calculation that this thread is directly responsible for 10% of Brewdog's commercial success and 25% of the evil that they've done.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 29, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Your analysis is spot on - there's nothing particularly worse about them than any other company and it's the people that hype the outrage up on internet forums and so on, who are responsible for all the bad stuff that comes out. I've done a back of the envelope calculation that this thread is directly responsible for 10% of Brewdog's commercial success and 25% of the evil that they've done.


try harder


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

It did occur to me that, if people who get Brewdog tattoos because they love the brand so much are deserving of scorn and or pity then maybe the people who obsessively Hate this one singular brand in particular and go on about it at length, are not the opposite of them.


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> It did occur to me that, if people who get Brewdog tattoos because they love the brand so much are deserving of scorn and or pity then maybe the people who obsessively Hate this one singular brand in particular and go on about it at length, are not the opposite of them.


What the fuck are you on about? What's wrong with criticising a multinational corporation's appalling workplace bullying, sexism and lies?


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Your analysis is spot on - there's nothing particularly worse about them than any other company and it's the people that hype the outrage up on internet forums and so on, who are responsible for all the bad stuff that comes out. I've done a back of the envelope calculation that this thread is directly responsible for 10% of Brewdog's commercial success and 25% of the evil that they've done.



Spot on. Brewdogs founders have made themselves millions by manipulating idiots _exactly_ as this thread shows!


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> It did occur to me that, if people who get Brewdog tattoos because they love the brand so much are deserving of scorn and or pity then maybe the people who obsessively Hate this one singular brand in particular and go on about it at length, are not the opposite of them.



Bingo again.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

editor said:


> What the fuck are you on about? What's wrong with criticising a multinational corporation's appalling workplace bullying, sexism and lies?


Nothing at all. two and a half thousand posts on this thread, just going to go look at the amazon workers solidarity one. Oh, 50 posts.
 I don't think we have one on the child labour people who mine cobalt for our phones but will check.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

Fwiw : I've never bought a Brewdog product and never will. I have contributed to this thread but not their profits.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

Someone once left a Nanny State can in my fridge. weirdo. Thats it i think, for my interaction with the company in question.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I have contributed to this thread but not their profits.



By contributing to the thread you _have_ contributed to their profits, albeit indirectly. They have used you to create their brand. They absolutely need people like you.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> By contributing to the thread you _have_ contributed to their profits. They have used you to create their brand. They absolutely need people like you.



I disagree, but whatever.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Nothing at all. two and a half thousand post on this thread just going to go look at the amazon workers one. I don't think we have one on the child labour people who mine cobalt for our phones but will check.


So why compare fanboys who get tattoos and bUrGEr lovers to people calling out shitty practices? 
Great whattaboutery in the edit too


----------



## klang (Jun 29, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Fwiw : I've never bought a Brewdog product and never will. I have contributed to this thread but not their profits.


I once knocked over somebody's Brewdog in a pub, apologised and got them a Stella.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Nothing at all. two and a half thousand posts on this thread, just going to go look at the amazon workers solidarity one. Oh, 50 posts.
> I don't think we have one on the child labour people who mine cobalt for our phones but will check.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

ddraig said:


> So why compare fanboys who get tattoos and bUrGEr lovers to people calling out shitty practices?
> Great whattaboutery in the edit too


what is bUrGEr? the comparison is becaiuse of focus on this one brand, lifting it up above all other brewers for either love or hate, both of which are their marketing gold & key to success.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> what is bUrGEr? the comparison is becaiuse of focus on this one brand, lifting it up above all other brewers for either love or hate, both of which are their marketing gold & key to success.



Yeah, but .... PUNK


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Yeah, but .... PUNK


Stop it, every post you make is another can sold.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> what is bUrGEr? the comparison is becaiuse of focus on this one brand, lifting it up above all other brewers for either love or hate, both of which are their marketing gold & key to success.


enjoy your fun with the contrary crowd


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> what is bUrGEr?



Brewdog do some very serious burgers.

This is their "hybrid", "making a stand for the environment":


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

ddraig said:


> enjoy your fun with the contrary crowd


are you very cross? ok. I dont have any strong feelings about beer tbh.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> are you very cross? ok. I dont have any strong feelings about beer tbh.


not at all, I can't even drink beer!


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Brewdog do some very serious burgers.
> 
> This is their "hybrid", making a stand for the environment:
> 
> View attachment 275982


that looks fucking disgusting what is it marzipan?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 29, 2021)

not quite the same without the tag team, sigh


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> By contributing to the thread you _have_ contributed to their profits, albeit indirectly. They have used you to create their brand. They absolutely need people like you.


This is one of those cases where there's no such thing as bad publicity, merely brand awareness.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> that looks fucking disgusting what is it marzipan?



I think the middle bit is something to do with tofu. It's so that vegetarians eat them.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> are you very cross? ok. I dont have any strong feelings about beer tbh.


As you pointed out, some people are so cross about beer that they degrade workers' rights by forgetting to campaign for them properly. It's good that you reserve your strong feelings for good causes. I do too. I am virtue signalling by writing this.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

Does anybody really think the gold can thing is going to be some sort of reckoning for them? Its really not, its not anywhere near as interesting as the stuffed squirrel beers that they sold as another media-attention story.



as that old thing i linked to says:

'BrewDog embodies, in short, much about modern life that many people love to hate, particularly online and almost certainly beneath this article: you don’t have to search far to find someone on the internet calling BrewDog “hipsters”, “pretentious”, “wankers”, “arseholes” or simply “full of shit”. In the small but passionate world of British beer nerds, few subjects arouse stronger feelings than BrewDog'..
*Nonetheless, for the past four years, this has been the fastest-growing food and drinks producer in Britain, and the fastest-growing bar and restaurant operator.'*


Why is that happening, why have they had such enormous success do you reckon, you very angry people who have been writing very angry things about BREWDOG Ltd for almost a decade?


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

teuchter said:


> As you pointed out, some people are so cross about beer that they degrade workers' rights by forgetting to campaign for them properly. It's good that you reserve your strong feelings for good causes. I do too. I am virtue signalling by writing this.


Yes. Me too. We are the righteous ones.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Why is that happening, why have they had such enormous success do you reckon, you very angry people who have been writing very angry things about BREWDOG Ltd for almost a decade?


It's almost as if all the free advertising is working in their favour.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Nothing at all. two and a half thousand posts on this thread, just going to go look at the amazon workers solidarity one. Oh, 50 posts.
> I don't think we have one on the child labour people who mine cobalt for our phones but will check.


You do realise that your posts about how this thread has too many posts on it are also posts on this thread, right?


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> You do realise that your posts about how this thread has too many posts on it are also posts on this thread, right?


That's the genius of Brewdog.  
I don't give much of a shit at all about fancy beer, occasionally might ask the person at the bar for a taste of the guest one with a picture of a garden gnome or a celt on or something, when i'm feeling sophisticated and up for a Craft Ale or whatever they're called, but here i am adding to the internet mentions of Brewdog Ltd.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> That's the genius of Brewdog.


You just killed another squirrel.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Does anybody really think the gold can thing is going to be some sort of reckoning for them? Its really not, its not anywhere near as interesting as the stuffed squirrel beers that they sold as another media-attention story.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They don't get this. 

Time and again we've seen posted here .... 'Slagging off a company online IS NOT free positive advertising' .


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Not having been interested much at all, not a sophisticated beer person me, for some reason I found and read this long thing about Brewdog yesterday
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's what most of this thread has said, it's all about the hype. And they're sexist arseholes.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> That's what most of this thread has said, it's all about the hype.



No it hasn't!


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

i'm going to be seen as a Brewdog Supporter now, even though i poured that one can of Nanny State down the sink and put it in he recycling. 
If its any use i have about as much desire to go and drink in one of their fake brick-fake graffiti bars as i have to join a gym. 
Just think the phenomenon is interesting. Bad publicity is the key to their success.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> i'm going to be seen as a Brewdog Supporter now, even though i poured that one can of Nanny State down the sink and put it in he recycling.
> If its any use i have about as much desire to go and drink in one of their fake brick-fake graffiti bars as i have to join a gym.



If you're not a hate-filled, spittle-flecked, nonsense poster, you're part of the problem!


----------



## ddraig (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Does anybody really think the gold can thing is going to be some sort of reckoning for them? Its really not, its not anywhere near as interesting as the stuffed squirrel beers that they sold as another media-attention story.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Because they are way more wankers about and gullible dicks who fall for the hype and marketing, and also the contrary cunts on here


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Bad publicity is the key to their success.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

Next big one... Austerity Ales®, with Left-Wing Lager and Right-Wing Rosé, and and a limited run of 'Your Mum'.
Divide and conquer.


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Nothing at all. two and a half thousand posts on this thread, just going to go look at the amazon workers solidarity one. Oh, 50 posts.
> I don't think we have one on the child labour people who mine cobalt for our phones but will check.


Now that's what I call a edited post.

And running with you amazing logic here: if I find any worthwhile topics that you haven't contributed sufficient posts to, can that be taken as proof that you don't care much about the suffering being discussed?


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

editor said:


> Now that's what I call a edited post.
> 
> And running with you amazing logic here: if I find any worthwhile topics that you haven't contributed sufficient posts to, can that be taken as proof that you don't care much about the suffering being discussed?


If it feels good to be very cross with me about Brewdog ltd please feel free i don't mind.  I really don't care about Brewdog at all, if they disappear tomorrow great, I wont notice tbh. 
I only had one point, which is that negative publicity, on the internet, the more the better, is their lifeblood, it's what made and sustains them above all other breweries.  So i think this is an interesting example of a current phenomenon, that's all.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> So i think this is an interesting example of a current phenomenon, that's all.


It's an excellent example. It's marketing genius. Now watch as everyone else follows suit.


----------



## nastyned (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Bad publicity is the key to their success.



No it isn't. They have had detractors for a long time but they've also built up a massive fan base. Publicity is the key to their success but mainly because people have like what they've done (railing against industrial lager and dull real ale) enough to forgive them when they've made it too obvious they've capitalist bastards that will do anything to build their brand.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

nastyned said:


> No it isn't. They have had detractors for a long time but they've also built up a massive fan base. Publicity is the key to their success but mainly because people have like what they've done (railing against industrial lager and dull real ale) enough to forgive them when they've made it too obvious they've capitalist bastards that will do anything to build their brand.


Why these men in particular and their annoying noisy hate-able brand and not the hundreds of other new small breweries that make equally good beer?

The interesting bit of that long article i posted is that these two men had no advertising budget, they were like all the other little breweries until they managed to piss people off (advertising standards authority, real ale purists club, very angry people on the internet) and became hugely profitable as a result.


----------



## Elpenor (Jun 29, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Winner of BrewDog’s ‘solid gold’ beer can finds prize is made largely of brass
> 
> "A man who won a “solid gold” can of BrewDog beer has been left disappointed after the prize, which the Scottish brewery claims is worth £15,000, turned out to be largely made of brass."
> 
> ...


Apparently the beer can was actually worth £30k, but once the valuers realised the can has Brewdog beer inside the value dropped to 5 pence (in areas where there is deposit return)


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

nastyned said:


> No it isn't. They have had detractors for a long time but they've also built up a massive fan base. Publicity is the key to their success but mainly because people have like what they've done (railing against industrial lager and dull real ale) enough to forgive them when they've made it too obvious they've capitalist bastards that will do anything to build their brand.


Target your audience. Brewdog has targeted the twitter generation, and it's paying off, massively. Create division and get people talking about you. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad, it's brand awareness, and brand awareness sells your product.


----------



## Gromit (Jun 29, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Target your audience. Brewdog has targeted the twitter generation, and it's paying off, massively. Create division and get people talking about you. It doesn't matter if it's good or bad, it's brand awareness, and brand awareness sells your product.


Unless you are Gerald Ratner


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

Gromit said:


> Unless you are Gerald Ratner


I don't think Brewdog has ever admitted that it's products are shite.


----------



## nastyned (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Why these men in particular and their annoying noisy hate-able brand and not the hundreds of other new small breweries that make equally good beer?
> 
> The interesting bit of that long article i posted is that these two men had no advertising budget, they were like all the other little breweries until they managed to piss people off (advertising standards authority, real ale purists club, very angry people on the internet) and became hugely profitable as a result.


They copied (including at times word for word) what American craft breweries had done in beer style and publicity tactics, which was new in Britain so they found a niche  in the beer market. They also over play their lack of money compared to other little breweries, their main man comes from a rich family (and the other main partner was a qualified and experienced brewer which I'm sure also helped).


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 29, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Next big one... Austerity Ales®, with Left-Wing Lager and Right-Wing Rosé, and and a limited run of 'Your Mum'.
> Divide and conquer.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Nothing at all. two and a half thousand posts on this thread, just going to go look at the amazon workers solidarity one. Oh, 50 posts.
> I don't think we have one on the child labour people who mine cobalt for our phones but will check.



Trying to push a "holier than thou" attitude about the number of posts on an internet forum is not a good luck, may I say.


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

This notion repeatedly trotted out by the Brewdog fanboys here that 'all publicity is good publicity' is of course bollocks and the only reason why this thread has gone on for so long is because the very same people have been repeatedly defending their sexism, their crass lies and their disgusting, bullying workplace practices. 

And I guess I join in because urban75 was built on the principle of calling out corporate bullshitters, bullies and sexist cunts.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 29, 2021)

nastyned said:


> They copied (including at times word for word) what American craft breweries had done in beer style and publicity tactics, which was new in Britain so they found a niche  in the beer market. They also over play their lack of money compared to other little breweries, their main man comes from a rich family (and the other main partner was a qualified and experienced brewer which I'm sure also helped).



This has been said before in this thread  - by me at some recent point I think - but it's worth remembering that BrewDog have perhaps been left behind by the monster they created. Craft ale was always going to come to the UK, they just had the nous to get in early doors. They Icarus'd themselves more than once, while much savvier, quieter, and mature (professional?) brands who came along afterwards are much better respected, and much less in the shit. Cloudwater in Manchester and Tiny Rebel in Cardiff spring to mind.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

I don't think most actual customers of brewdog are aware of or interested in any of the controversies/morally dubious stuff tbh.

Everyone I know who is, doesn't buy Brewdog. Everyone I know who buys Brewdog either doesn't know or doesn't care.

I think their success is due to their actual advertising, pricing, availability, and positioning in supermarkets.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

Have I just qualified as a Brewdog Fanboy without ever buying one of their products or saying a good word about them? Cool. It’s a bit like brexit, stupidwise.


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Have I just qualified as a Brewdog Fanboy without ever buying one of their products or saying a good word about them? Cool. It’s a bit like brexit, stupidwise.


If you bothered to read the thread rather than arriving late, reading one article and then comparing those who have been calling out their appalling practices with tattoed fanboys you might not be coming over so ridiculous here.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 29, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I don't think most actual customers of brewdog are aware of or interested in any of the controversies/morally dubious stuff tbh.
> 
> Everyone I know who is, doesn't buy Brewdog. Everyone I know who buys Brewdog either doesn't know or doesn't care.
> 
> I think their success is due to their actual advertising, pricing, availability, and positioning in supermarkets.



True, to a degree. But within craft ale circles, there is more excitement about a dozen more breweries before anybody gets in the mood about the latest Brewdog. Look at Vault City for one example. 

They perhaps hold a reputation amongst a certain set of customers who will remain loyal. I wonder just what these scandals will do to the occasional customer though. I'm getting parallel vibes from voters of the Conservative Party.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

I feel very ridiculous and will go away. No fucking way am I reading two and a half thousand posts about people’s feelings about a beer company.


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Why these men in particular and their annoying noisy hate-able brand and not the hundreds of other new small breweries that make equally good beer?


How many craft breweries are accused of promoting a toxic workplace culture of fear and bullying? 









						Former BrewDog staff accuse craft beer firm of culture of fear
					

Dozens of ex-employees sign open letter claiming they were bullied and treated like objects




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> I feel very ridiculous and will go away. No fucking way am I reading two and a half thousand posts about people’s feelings about a beer company.


Just read the one above and tell me what you think.


----------



## nastyned (Jun 29, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


> True, to a degree. But within craft ale circles, there is more excitement about a dozen more breweries before anybody gets in the mood about the latest Brewdog. Look at Vault City for one example.
> 
> They perhaps hold a reputation amongst a certain set of customers who will remain loyal. I wonder just what these scandals will do to the occasional customer though. I'm getting parallel vibes from voters of the Conservative Party.


It's years since there's been a buzz about the beers Brewdog make.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> I feel very ridiculous and will go away.



Please don't. You're one of the least ridiculous posters on the thread. You can tell how well you're doing by the tone of the responses you receive.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

editor No I know, have heard in various media recently, without looking for it, about what a terrible place it is to work what a shit organisation it is and also read about how many people desperately want to work for the cool rebel brand. It’s fucked up but I don’t think it’s limited to this company, at all.


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> editor No I know, have heard in various media recently about what a terrible place it is to work and also read about how many people desperately want to work for the cool rebel brand. It’s fucked up but I don’t think it’s limited to this company, at all.


Then find a similar brewery that has hundreds of current and ex-workers posting serious complaints of a toxic work environment and bullying, misogynistic behaviour'


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

editor said:


> The find a similar brewery that has hundreds of current and ex-workers posting serious complaints of a toxic work environment and bullying, misogynistic behaviour'


I can’t ! I lose you are the winner.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> editor No I know, have heard in various media recently, without looking for it, about what a terrible place it is to work what a shit organisation it is and also read about how many people desperately want to work for the cool rebel brand. It’s fucked up but I don’t think it’s limited to this company, at all.



Brewdog said "punk" though. 

Check out the OP.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


> True, to a degree. But within craft ale circles, there is more excitement about a dozen more breweries before anybody gets in the mood about the latest Brewdog. Look at Vault City for one example.
> 
> They perhaps hold a reputation amongst a certain set of customers who will remain loyal. I wonder just what these scandals will do to the occasional customer though. I'm getting parallel vibes from voters of the Conservative Party.



Yes, I said something similar about Tory voters earlier in this thread.

I don't expect the bulk of BrewDog’s customers are part of "craft ale circles".


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> editor No I know, have heard in various media recently, without looking for it, about what a terrible place it is to work what a shit organisation it is and also read about how many people desperately want to work for the cool rebel brand. It’s fucked up *but I don’t think it’s limited to this company, at all.*


Indeed, look at Amazon, one of the worst places to work on the planet, owned by the richest person on the planet.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> I can’t ! I lose you are the winner.



Booo.

Don't give up that easily. 

Remember, you don't have to "win", to _win. _


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> also read about how many people desperately want to work for the cool rebel brand.



Link?


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Indeed, look at Amazon, one of the worst places to work on the planet, owned by the richest person on the planet.


We're talking about UK breweries.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Indeed, look at Amazon, one of the worst places to work on the planet, owned by the richest person on the planet.


The idea that Brewdog Ltd is very special in its bullying and sexism is tbh just bonkers isn’t it. But I don’t know much about beer so whatever maybe other beer companies are great.
Selling stuff by co opting rebel cultural signifiers started in the 1950s to get money from the newly invented Teenager so I guess it’s the beer part that I’m missing, which makes this a very important internet frontline.


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> The idea that Brewdog Ltd is very special in its bullying and sexism is tbh just bonkers isn’t it. But I don’t know much about beer so whatever maybe other beer companies are great.
> Selling stuff by co opting rebel cultural signifiers started in the 1950s so I guess it’s the beer part that I’m missing, which makes this a very important internet frontline.



They're the worst recent example I can think of, but it seems that you'd like people to stop going on about it for some reason


----------



## xenon (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Why these men in particular and their annoying noisy hate-able brand and not the hundreds of other new small breweries that make equally good beer?
> 
> The interesting bit of that long article i posted is that these two men had no advertising budget, they were like all the other little breweries until they managed to piss people off (advertising standards authority, real ale purists club, very angry people on the internet) and became hugely profitable as a result.



which threads on here have the most traffic. The most posts per minute. Of course it’s the ones that make people angry. 
as I said back on page 1, I’ve never heard of them until this thread. now I don’t really like ale. But if I did, I might have been minded to try one since I’d heard of them and there it was on the shelf, on the pump in front of me.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 29, 2021)

nastyned said:


> It's years since there's been a buzz about the beers Brewdog make.



Very true, I agree. 

Their success carries on much like, I dunno, Kelloggs.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Indeed, look at Amazon, one of the worst places to work on the planet, owned by the richest person on the planet.



You can only be critical of companies on the approved list.


----------



## editor (Jun 29, 2021)

xenon said:


> which threads on here have the most traffic. The most posts per minute. Of course it’s the ones that make people angry.
> as I said back on page 1, I’ve never heard of them until this thread. now I don’t really like ale. But if I did, I might have been minded to try one since I’d heard of them and there it was on the shelf, on the pump in front of me.


Really? So when someone points out that a trendy company has a toxic, bullying work culture, that makes you think, "I'd like some of what they're selling, please?"


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

editor said:


> Really? So when someone points out that a trendy company has a toxic, bullying work culture, that makes you think, "I'd like some of what they're selling, please?"



They said "might have been", which I read as meaning prior to reading this thread.

Could be wrong, obvs.

Eta actually on second reading I think I was wrong, soz, do carry on.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 29, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I don't think most actual customers of brewdog are aware of or interested in any of the controversies/morally dubious stuff tbh.
> 
> Everyone I know who is, doesn't buy Brewdog. Everyone I know who buys Brewdog either doesn't know or doesn't care.
> 
> I think their success is due to their actual advertising, pricing, availability, and positioning in supermarkets.


I'm aware of the controversies but I often by Brewdog beers because I currently don't drink and they are the only company that manages to get a non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything into most supermarkets.

When I go into a shop and there's another non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything, I buy that.

Not sure what the beer-angry people on this thread want me to do. I think they want me to drink Beck's Blue forever - or drink alcohol - as a punishment for being teetotal. And that tells you what kind of people they are.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 29, 2021)

xenon said:


> which threads on here have the most traffic. The most posts per minute. Of course it’s the ones that make people angry.
> as I said back on page 1, I’ve never heard of them until this thread. now I don’t really like ale. But if I did, I might have been minded to try one since I’d heard of them and there it was on the shelf, on the pump in front of me.



Yep. For good or bad reasons it's made you aware of a company/product that you had previously never heard of. You may or may not care about their methods but you also may fall into the camp who dislike a lot of what their detractors stand for (or pretend to stand for) and the associated hypocrisy. That's a big one.


----------



## xenon (Jun 29, 2021)

editor said:


> Really? So when someone points out that a trendy company has a toxic, bullying work culture, that makes you think, "I'd like some of what they're selling, please?"



me, no. But five years ago when this thread started. before all the rest come to light. I might of seen the beer and thought oh yeah I’ve heard of them what’s all the fuss about let’s try one.
I’m not saying this thread is boosting their sales. But quite clearly the whole controversy they revel in does.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I'm aware of the controversies but I often by Brewdog beers because I currently don't drink and they are the only company that manages to get a non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything into most supermarkets.
> 
> When I go into a shop and there's another non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything, I buy that.
> 
> Not sure what the beer-angry people on this thread want me to do. I think they want me to drink Beck's Blue forever - or drink alcohol - as a punishment for being teetotal. And that tells you what kind of people they are.



I don't drink alcohol except on very rare occasions, and seem to manage fine without any alcohol free beer! Each to their own, though, of course.  I guess getting one over the people you call "beer-angry" means something to you. Fair (if wierd) enough.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 29, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I'm aware of the controversies but I often by Brewdog beers because I currently don't drink and they are the only company that manages to get a non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything into most supermarkets.
> 
> When I go into a shop and there's another non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything, I buy that.
> 
> Not sure what the beer-angry people on this thread want me to do. I think they want me to drink Beck's Blue forever - or drink alcohol - as a punishment for being teetotal. And that tells you what kind of people they are.



Just drink shit non-alcoholic beer, exactly as you would if you were drinking alcoholic beer with limited choices.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Link?


I’ve trawled back and found the thing that made me post that, it’s from the same long article here you go.


It’s just one silly barman though the other employees are probably not drawn in to the whole madly hyped brand identity at all so my bad.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 29, 2021)

On a side note that may well have been raised before - the new world of brewers is riddled with cunts who view their job as a stylish vocation where workers are used as props to validate/ameliorate their slightly posh roots. Know at least one young guy who was treated as the token outsider/minority/working class in that world and it wasn't BrewDog that did it.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> I’ve trawled back and found the thing that made me post that, it’s from the same long article here you go.
> View attachment 276022
> It’s just one silly barman though the other employees are probably not drawn in to the whole madly hyped brand identity at all so my bad.



Yep, just one person. Ah well.


----------



## bimble (Jun 29, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> Yep, just one person. Ah well.


Yes. The people with Brewdog tattoos and their friends are a totally separate issue.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

YouSir said:


> On a side note that may well have been raised before - the new world of brewers is riddled with cunts who view their job as a stylish vocation where workers are used as props to validate/ameliorate their slightly posh roots. Know at least one young guy who was treated as the token outsider/minority/working class in that world and it wasn't BrewDog that did it.



I'm well aware there are problems with other breweries, and campaigns about sexism and racism in the industry beyond just Brewdog.

Doesn't stop me criticising Brewdog though. Don't see why it should.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

bimble said:


> Yes. The people with Brewdog tattoos and their friends are a totally separate issue.



Indeed. And one I'd rather not think about this close to my bedtime.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

editor said:


> We're talking about UK breweries.


We're talking about people.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 29, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I'm well aware there are problems with other breweries, and campaigns about sexism and racism in the industry beyond just Brewdog.
> 
> Doesn't stop me criticising Brewdog though. Don't see why it should.



It shouldn't at all. As I said, the point has probably been raised before, just going on personal knowledge that BrewDog isn't unique. Beer is no different to anything else ultimately, increasingly taken over by rich boys who decided they want a vocation and who use other workers - be they PoC, other working class, or anything else - as gimmicks. Especially in London ime. We're all novelties now.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

YouSir said:


> It shouldn't at all. As I said, the point has probably been raised before, just going on personal knowledge that BrewDog isn't unique. Beer is no different to anything else ultimately, increasingly taken over by rich boys who decided they want a vocation and who use other workers - be they PoC, other working class, or anything else - as gimmicks. Especially in London ime. We're all novelties now.



So I guess we should just all accept it and not talk of it ever again...


----------



## YouSir (Jun 29, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> So I guess we should just all accept it and not talk of it ever again...



Of course not. I'm not arguing m8, I agree, raise it all the time, constantly. Me kicking in isn't against that.


----------



## nastyned (Jun 29, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I'm aware of the controversies but I often by Brewdog beers because I currently don't drink and they are the only company that manages to get a non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything into most supermarkets.
> 
> When I go into a shop and there's another non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything, I buy that.
> 
> Not sure what the beer-angry people on this thread want me to do. I think they want me to drink Beck's Blue forever - or drink alcohol - as a punishment for being teetotal. And that tells you what kind of people they are.


Try Big Drop, they're in some supermarkets and their IPAs and Stout are good.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 29, 2021)

editor said:


> Really? So when someone points out that a trendy company has a toxic, bullying work culture, that makes you think, "I'd like some of what they're selling, please?"


It doesn't, but next time you're in the pub, it makes you see the Brewdog logo on a beer bottle/can/pump, and you remember the name, and you buy one. 
That's how advertising works, and that's why subliminal advertising works. You don't have to like them, you just have to know the name.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jun 29, 2021)

Cut bimble some slack. They're  OK in my book


----------



## YouSir (Jun 29, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> It doesn't, but next time you're in the pub, it makes you see the Brewdog logo on a beer bottle/can/pump, and you remember the name, and you buy one.
> That's how advertising works, and that's why subliminal advertising works. You don't have to like them, you just have to know the name.



I remember the name ISIS, I don't buy their beer. Advertising doesn't mean you have no free will.

Edit: To be fair ISIS might have a cracking micro-brew, I don't know.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 29, 2021)

nastyned said:


> Try Big Drop, they're in some supermarkets and their IPAs and Stout are good.


I get them whenever I can. However, they are rarely in small supermarkets whereas Brewdog ones quite often are.

I actually think that Nanny State to some extent created the market that other companies are now starting to exploit.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 29, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I get them whenever I can. However, they are rarely in small supermarkets whereas Brewdog ones quite often are.
> 
> I actually think that Nanny State to some extent created the market that other companies are now starting to exploit.



Have you ever considered that boycotting may, on occasion, require you not to buy something?


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 29, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I'm aware of the controversies but I often by Brewdog beers because I currently don't drink and they are the only company that manages to get a non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything into most supermarkets.
> 
> When I go into a shop and there's another non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything, I buy that.
> 
> Not sure what the beer-angry people on this thread want me to do. I think they want me to drink Beck's Blue forever - or drink alcohol - as a punishment for being teetotal. And that tells you what kind of people they are.


Irn-Bru is sold in many major supermarkets, has zero alcohol content, and tastes nicer than beer. There you go, problem solved.


----------



## kenny g (Jun 29, 2021)

Interesting that the supermarket offers are near to a pound a can which is almost purchasable. Once it hits the Banks 89p for 500 ml pricemark I will become a loyal cuStstermor


----------



## kenny g (Jun 29, 2021)

Customer


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

YouSir said:


> Of course not. I'm not arguing m8, I agree, raise it all the time, constantly. Me kicking in isn't against that.



Ah OK. My bad then.

Not sure what your post was about, then, though. I mean, what your point was.

Maybe that's alright  though.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I get them whenever I can. However, they are rarely in small supermarkets whereas Brewdog ones quite often are.



I think that's a clue to BrewDog’s success, right there.

Not this thread.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 29, 2021)

YouSir said:


> Have you ever considered that boycotting may, on occasion, require you not to buy something?


I'm not sure of your point. Are you informing me that if I wanted to boycott Brewdog, then this would involve me not buying their products? Thanks - I will note that down.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 29, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I'm not sure of your point. Are you informing me that if I wanted to boycott Brewdog, then this would involve me not buying their products? Thanks - I will note that down.



Well done fella, stick it on your pinboard.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 29, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> I think that's a clue to BrewDog’s success, right there.
> 
> Not this thread.


Brewdog's marketing skills are what gets a decent non-alcoholic beer into supermarkets. And a large part of their marketing skill is in cultivating threads like this one.


----------



## YouSir (Jun 29, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Brewdog's marketing skills are what gets a decent non-alcoholic beer into supermarkets. And a large part of their marketing skill is in cultivating threads like this one.



Doubt it, God bless Urban but it ain't driving their latest stock option.


----------



## BillRiver (Jun 29, 2021)

This (targetted TV advertising) clearly helped:

BrewDog uses TV to claim an unfair share of attention

Sincerely doubt that many viewers of Love Island, Game of Thrones, 8 Out of 10 Cats and The Last Leg, are particularly interested in Urban's thoughts on this matter or indeed any other.


----------



## editor (Jun 30, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> It doesn't, but next time you're in the pub, it makes you see the Brewdog logo on a beer bottle/can/pump, and you remember the name, and you buy one.
> That's how advertising works, and that's why subliminal advertising works. You don't have to like them, you just have to know the name.


That's a bullshit argument.

If I hear of some company being a bunch of cunts ands treating their staff like shit, I'm not going to automatically purchase their goods whenever I see them.

In fact I'll do the fucking opposite.


----------



## editor (Jun 30, 2021)

YouSir said:


> Doubt it, God bless Urban but it ain't driving their latest stock option.


The lies and bullshit never end with Brewdog. 



> Back in 2013, Watt said he would “rather take my money and set fire to it” than spend it on advertising, adding: “It’s the antithesis of everything we stand for and everything we believe in. It’s a medium that is shallow, it’s fake and we want nothing to do with it.”
> 
> Yet times change. Fast-forward six years and BrewDog clearly sees that marketing is worth investing in. And it is prepared to pay for it, both in terms of creative agency fees and media spend.





> But if this ‘honest’ ad has taught us one thing, it’s that BrewDog isn’t anti-advertising or anti-convention. And that even most challenger brands will eventually have to adopt big brand advertising if they want to continue to grow.



And let's not forget:



> It has also been accused of asking clients to pitch ideas, declining them and then taking ideas from competing agencies, as well as failing to reimburse prospective employees for travel.











						BrewDog needs to be honest with itself about its ‘honest’ new ad
					

The craft beer brand’s “most honest ad ever” is nothing of the sort and is instead a sign that this “anti-mainstream” brewer has realised that the big brand advertising is crucial to raising awareness and boosting growth.




					www.marketingweek.com


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2021)

Talking of stock options, have a couple of pieces pointing out how their self valuations are completely fraudulent.  Thankfully, they’re not actually a listed company, so they can overcharge their investors absurdly to be a voteless member of their ‘community’









						BrewDog Crowdfund: A Scam for Punks? – A VC’s Personal Views and Analysis on the BrewDog Investment ‘Opportunity’
					

Big news, BrewDog launched its N-th crowdfunding round at some point this month. A friend thinking of backing the company asked me what I think, so I had a quick look to hit him with my personal (i.




					www.linkedin.com
				












						eer maker BrewDog defends $100 million valuation
					

Compacy hits back at criticism over a $10m capital raise in Australia using a platform that values the brewer at $100m.




					www.smh.com.au


----------



## Gromit (Jun 30, 2021)

How are people still calling their product “craft” beer? The phrase literally means beer from a small brewery. The emphasis on small. 

Brewdog now produces so much beer it would be like calling BP petrol Craft Petrol.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

BillRiver said:


> This (targetted TV advertising) clearly helped:
> 
> BrewDog uses TV to claim an unfair share of attention
> 
> Sincerely doubt that many viewers of Love Island, Game of Thrones, 8 Out of 10 Cats and The Last Leg, are particularly interested in Urban's thoughts on this matter or indeed any other.



Interesting to see in that article an outline of the strategy they used to start this thread on urban75:



> _*Anti-context spots*
> The creative was loud and blunt, so the agencies saw an opportunity to keep the spirit of ‘punk’ alive in the TV plan and make the most of BrewDog’s distinctive brand assets. They chose a selection of ‘anti-context spots’ which had an audience match, but the creative would contrast with the programme content. In addition to Love Island, spots in First Dates and Celebrity Juice were chosen to achieve this._


----------



## NoXion (Jun 30, 2021)

The idea that this Urban thread is somehow meaningfully contributing to BrewDog's profits is long on assertions but short on evidence.


----------



## souljacker (Jun 30, 2021)

YouSir said:


> I remember the name ISIS, I don't buy their beer. Advertising doesn't mean you have no free will.
> 
> Edit: To be fair ISIS might have a cracking micro-brew, I don't know.



איסיס - מבשלת בירה דרומית | isis desert brewery  I've also been very drunk in the Isis Farmhouse near Oxford before.

I intend to boycott Brew Dog from now on though. The punk thing never really bothered me, it's just an advertising style now rather than a way of life. Rave culture was taken over in the same way in the 90s and that didn't really bother me. I don't mind their beer but it's pricey and not really that great. I spent an enjoyable evening in their bar in Aberdeen once and also in the one near Oxford Street but both times it was the company rather than the beer or ambience that was good.

But if they are fucking over their workers and customers so readily whilst flying around in private jets then they don't need my money. I'll stick to smaller independent brewers for now thanks.


----------



## editor (Jun 30, 2021)

NoXion said:


> The idea that this Urban thread is somehow meaningfully contributing to BrewDog's profits is long on assertions but short on evidence.


It really is an incredibly stupid claim. We are but an insignificant speck to to the global multinational.


----------



## editor (Jun 30, 2021)

souljacker said:


> But if they are fucking over their workers and customers so readily whilst flying around in private jets then they don't need my money. I'll stick to smaller independent brewers for now thanks.


Good call. Let's hope others here will follow your lead.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

NoXion said:


> The idea that this Urban thread is somehow meaningfully contributing to BrewDog's profits is long on assertions but short on evidence.


Not true. I already provided a calculation upthread that shows it's created 10% of their profits.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Not true. I already provided a calculation upthread that shows it's created 10% of their profits.



Bullshit. You didn't show any of your working. You just claimed to have done calculations.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

NoXion said:


> Bullshit. You didn't show any of your working. You just claimed to have done calculations.


The workings were figuratively done on the back of an envelope.

This thread appears on the first page of google results for "brewdog punk appropriation"and "brewdog hip brand".

It doesn't appear on the first page of google results for "brewdog sexist monsters" or "brewdog worker exploitation" or "brewdog ethical vacuum".

This demonstrates that people wondering whether Brewdog is hip or has successfully modified punk culture to be better, will find this thread and have their thoughts positively confirmed, whereas people interested in brewdog's problematic behaviour will not find it.

So it's pretty obvious that they have managed to generate a thread that amplifies any existing interest in their brand, and which fails to amplify any objection to it. Therefore, the thread helps them commercially and fails to highlight the things they do wrong. Only the self absorbed beer-anger people fail to understand this.


----------



## editor (Jun 30, 2021)

Good to see their whopping lie being reported widely. And what a shitty way to try and rip off loyal customers.



> BrewDog told the Guardian it stands by its £15,000 valuation, but could not guarantee their value on the open market.
> 
> A spokesperson also said BrewDog had immediately removed the “erroneous” mentions of solid gold in its marketing as soon as it realised the mistake, *though tweets from Watt’s official account referring to the “solid gold” cans remained online until yesterday afternoon (28 June).*
> 
> ...



And more lies:



> The news comes just weeks after BrewDog was called out by former employees of creating an internal “culture of fear”, as well as using “lies, hypocrisy and deceit” to generate positive PR for the brand.
> 
> In an open letter, more than 250 ex-staff members accused the business of lying about a number of stunts, including sending anti-homophobia protest beer to Russia and about founders Watt and Martin Dickie changing their names to ‘Elvis’ in response to a legal challenge by the Elvis Presley estate.



I think it might be safe to assume that the Covid vaccination centres and claimed demand for their water from NHS centres were just more of their many lines too. Imagine being so scummy and ruthlessly profit-seeking that you'd think nothing of exploiting the Covid crisis and using it as a marketing opportunity.









						Vodafone, Haribo, Pinterest: Everything that matters this morning
					

Good morning and welcome to Marketing Week’s round-up of the news that matters in the marketing world on the week starting 28 June 2021.




					www.marketingweek.com


----------



## editor (Jun 30, 2021)

Looks like those 'equity punks' could have their loyalty rewarded with a kicking too: 



> BrewDog’s “equity punks” are in revolt. A 180,000-strong army of crowdfunding investors has helped fuel the company’s growth over more than a decade, turning it into the UK’s largest craft brewer.
> 
> But the loyalty of these shareholders has been shaken, after former staff accused BrewDog of misogyny, a “toxic” attitude to junior workers, and pursuing “growth at all costs”. Some of the small investors the Scottish brewer calls “punks” — who have invested more than £80m and been reliable drinkers of its lagers and ales — are now concerned that attractive financial terms offered to private equity groups mean they will end up losing money even if BrewDog’s value increases.
> 
> “I wouldn’t have invested at all if I’d known what the culture was within the company,” said Andrew O’Neill, a 53-year-old veteran of Belfast’s hospitality industry who invested several thousand pounds last year. “The sheen has come off BrewDog for me.” Richard White, a London-based brewer who invested eight years ago, said: “I’m angry and I feel a bit responsible for enabling this . . . I feel a bit guilty for swallowing the BrewDog Kool-Aid, because clearly that hasn’t been everyone’s experience.”



And their environmental lies exposed:



> The “punks with purpose” group of former staff said the company had used a private jet and “charter[ed] flights across the Atlantic that had to be filled with staff to justify them even going ahead”, claiming these undermined BrewDog’s sustainability goals.
> 
> The company said: “BrewDog is the world’s first carbon negative brewery, removing twice as much CO2 from the atmosphere as it creates. It has an industry-leading environmental impact action plan.”
> 
> The current fundraising prospectus said the company paid “approximately £125,000 annually . . . for flights” to Jet Pack Pie Limited, which is wholly owned by Watt. BrewDog declined to comment on what flights these were or why Watt’s company was involved.







__





						Subscribe to read | Financial Times
					

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




					www.ft.com


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> The workings were figuratively done on the back of an envelope.
> 
> This thread appears on the first page of google results for "brewdog punk appropriation"and "brewdog hip brand".
> 
> ...


In passing, does this mean that you think "appropriation" means "successfully modifying something to be better"?


----------



## NoXion (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> The workings were figuratively done on the back of an envelope.



Again, without you actually showing your working, we can all feel quite comfortable in calling bullshit on that claim. That's without even going into your known history of being a trolling dipshit.



teuchter said:


> This thread appears on the first page of google results for "brewdog punk appropriation"and "brewdog hip brand".



Google's results are customised to each individual user.




teuchter said:


> It doesn't appear on the first page of google results for "brewdog sexist monsters" or "brewdog worker exploitation" or "brewdog ethical vacuum".



So what? That doesn't prove the claim made.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> In passing, does this mean that you think "appropriation" means "successfully modifying something to be better"?


I don't, but I suspect that most young(ish) people googling about punk will probably think it means that, in that particular context. The immense success of the Brewdog branding seems to confirm this.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

NoXion said:


> Google's results are customised to each individual user.


Tested on two separate browsers with cookies/history etc disabled.

Have just double checked on Tor browser. Results stand, although one of the positive results is at the top of the second page instead of on the first page. 

Therefore, my argument is unassailable.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 30, 2021)

editor said:


> That's a bullshit argument.
> 
> If I hear of some company being a bunch of cunts ands treating their staff like shit, I'm not going to automatically purchase their goods whenever I see them.
> 
> In fact I'll do the fucking opposite.


I haven't read the thread, but I've seen the Brewdog name whenever I click New posts. I hadn't heard of Brewdog until I saw this thread, and, like most people, wouldn't read through thousands of posts about a hipster beer company, but I will remember the name when I see it on the label of a beer on a shelf. I'm not saying I'd buy it. The name alone would put me off, but plenty will recognise the name and buy it based on nothing more than brand recognition.


----------



## bimble (Jun 30, 2021)

NoXion said:


> Bullshit. You didn't show any of your working. You just claimed to have done calculations.


Do you genuinely think teuchter is attempting to convince you that this thread accounts for 10% of the beer company’s sales?


----------



## editor (Jun 30, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> I haven't read the thread, but I've seen the Brewdog name whenever I click New posts. I hadn't heard of Brewdog until I saw this thread, and, like most people, wouldn't read through thousands of posts about a hipster beer company, but I will remember the name when I see it on the label of a beer on a shelf. I'm not saying I'd buy it. The name alone would put me off, but plenty will recognise the name and buy it based on nothing more than brand recognition.


So you think stupid people just can't stop themselves buying things because they've seen the name somewhere, regardless of the context or reputation? 

What a low opinion you have of people.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 30, 2021)

No other brewing company, as far as I am aware, has been accused of bullying in an open letter signed by over 250 former and current employees.

It's not they bully in a very special way, it's that staff are willing to stand up and be counted over it. That's the rare thing.

They've been taken taken to tribunal over their treatment of staff with disabilities, for which the reasonable adjustment was minor. They refused to carry out the reasonable adjustment.

They're real arseholes.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Tested on two separate browsers with cookies/history etc disabled.
> 
> Have just double checked on Tor browser. Results stand, although one of the positive results is at the top of the second page instead of on the first page.
> 
> Therefore, my argument is unassailable.



Again, bollocks. You've not shown how this argument relates to your given figure of 10%. Just declaring that your arguments are water tight is why you come across as such a fucking dick.



bimble said:


> Do you genuinely think teuchter is attempting to convince you that this thread accounts for 10% of the beer company’s sales?



I have no clue what's going through his pointed little head right now. I would hazard a guess that he _knows_ that he's full of shit, since instead of providing his calculations, he is just bullshitting.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Tested on two separate browsers with cookies/history etc disabled.
> 
> Have just double checked on Tor browser. Results stand, although one of the positive results is at the top of the second page instead of on the first page.
> 
> Therefore, my argument is unassailable.


But googling "brewdog are misogynistic" U75 is not mentioned, but all most of the first page results are from newspapers with the first result being the FT.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 30, 2021)

editor said:


> So you think stupid people just can't stop themselves buying things because they've seen the name somewhere, regardless of the context or reputation?
> 
> What a low opinion you have of people.


I'd guess that most people have no idea about their reputation. I had no idea until I read about the solid gold can. 
Also, as I mentioned previously, being a shit company to work for doesn't seem to stop people lining Bezos' pockets. Apparently, it doesn't stop people spending enough of their hard earned with Brewdog, either. Enough to make them the biggest UK craft brewer, so maybe my 'low opinion of people' is justified?


----------



## NoXion (Jun 30, 2021)

Storm Fox said:


> But googling "brewdog are misogynistic" U75 is not mentioned, but all most of the first page results are from newspapers with the first result being the FT.



"brewdog abuse claims" also produces a 10th June Guardian article about the allegations as the first result. I wonder if the choice of search terms had anything to do with the results? Nah, Google results using cherry-picked terms are "unassailable" evidence!

Honestly, regardless of whether teuchter is trolling or not, this is pathetic stuff.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

Both of you are confirming my unassailable argument. Use Google to find out about bad stuff brewdog is doing, and this thread is nowhere to be seen. Use it to find out if they are a hip company and this thread is there for you. It's really skillful of the brewdog marketeers to have manipulated posters on this site so effectively.

Another notable feature of this thread is that you can hammer out the most preposterous defence of brewdog you can think of, and people will still come up with truly silly responses.


----------



## souljacker (Jun 30, 2021)

We should change the thread title then. To 'Brewdog: Bunch of cunts'.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Both of you are confirming my unassailable argument. Use Google to find out about bad stuff brewdog is doing, and this thread is nowhere to be seen. Use it to find out if they are a hip company and this thread is there for you.



This thread is hardly singing the praises of the company. If even searching up benign terms still produces critical results, that's hardly a stroke of marketing genius then, is it?


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

souljacker said:


> We should change the thread title then. To 'Brewdog: Bunch of cunts'.


You're still failing to grasp how this works. If you don't want to help brewdog's commercial success, then don't post anything on this thread.

I think it's reasonable to say that anyone (except me) posting anything from here onwards is knowingly and willingly promoting brewdog and multiplying their profits and poor behaviour.


----------



## souljacker (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> You're still failing to grasp how this works. If you don't want to help brewdog's commercial success, then don't post anything on this thread.
> 
> I think it's reasonable to say that anyone (except me) posting anything from here onwards is knowingly and willingly promoting brewdog and multiplying their profits and poor behaviour.


Lol. You plonker.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> You're still failing to grasp how this works. If you don't want to help brewdog's commercial success, then don't post anything on this thread.
> 
> I think it's reasonable to say that anyone (except me) posting anything from here onwards is knowingly and willingly promoting brewdog and multiplying their profits and poor behaviour.



So what was Jeff Bezos doing when he bought the Washington Post after they kept making articles critical of Amazon? Clearly he didn't believe that "all publicity is good publicity". The logic behind your argument is basically that nobody should criticise a company if they don't want to add to their profits, which is nonsense as demonstrated by all the effort companies put in to reputation management.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

NoXion said:


> So what was Jeff Bezos doing when he bought the Washington Post after they kept making articles critical of Amazon? Clearly he didn't believe that "all publicity is good publicity". The logic behind your argument is basically that nobody should criticise a company if they don't want to add to their profits, which is nonsense as demonstrated by all the effort companies put in to reputation management.


Have Brewdog attempted to buy urban75?

No, they haven't. They haven't made any effort to stop the discussion here. In fact they've specifically targeted their manufactured controversies to encourage it.

QED.


----------



## Raheem (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I'm aware of the controversies but I often by Brewdog beers because I currently don't drink and they are the only company that manages to get a non-alcoholic beer that tastes of anything into most supermarkets.


I went through an alcohol-free beer phase a couple of years ago. A lot of them taste really awful, but the best ones were by Infinite Sessions. They do a pale and an IPA, both of which are stocked by Tesco's, or were at the time. Not exactly full-bodied, and not very different from each other, but a nice taste. Can't promise they are not also made by cunts, though. For a lager, it's Free Damm, which you can also get in supermarkets.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 30, 2021)

A little self-deprecation doesn't seem to have done them any harm, either. 








						Manchester bar puts its bad reviews on staff T-shirts
					

BrewDog Manchester is the latest bar to publicly bite back against its critics online




					www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk
				




I honestly believe that short of noncery charges, Brewdog's profits are only going one way. Its a sad indictment of the world we live in.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 30, 2021)

souljacker said:


> I intend to boycott Brew Dog from now on though ...
> 
> But if they are fucking over their workers and customers so readily whilst flying around in private jets then they don't need my money.



Admirable. 

Will you extend this principle to other areas of your consumption, or just beer?


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

Raheem said:


> I went through an alcohol-free beer phase a couple of years ago. A lot of them taste really awful, but the best ones were by Infinite Sessions. They do a pale and an IPA, both of which are stocked by Tesco's, or were at the time. Not exactly full-bodied, and not very different from each other, but a nice taste. Can't promise they are not also made by cunts, though. For a lager, it's Free Damm, which you can also get in supermarkets.


Of the three supermarkets in walking distance from my front door, the only AF things you can get reliably are the rubbish big-brand lagers or the Brewdog ones. Occasionally one of them will have the AF Old Speckled Hen. If I want anything else, I have to go to the expensive and pretentious beer shop a bit further away, which I do do from time to time, and I've tried the Infinite Sessions ones I think and found them decent.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Have Brewdog attempted to buy urban75?
> 
> No, they haven't. They haven't made any effort to stop the discussion here. In fact they've specifically targeted their manufactured controversies to encourage it.
> 
> QED.



The fact that BrewDog haven't tried buying this forum doesn't prove that it's an asset to them.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Another notable feature of this thread is that you can hammer out the most preposterous defence of brewdog you can think of, and people will still come up with truly silly responses.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Both of you are confirming my unassailable argument. Use Google to find out about bad stuff brewdog is doing, and this thread is nowhere to be seen. Use it to find out if they are a hip company and this thread is there for you. It's really skillful of the brewdog marketeers to have manipulated posters on this site so effectively.
> 
> Another notable feature of this thread is that you can hammer out the most preposterous defence of brewdog you can think of, and people will still come up with truly silly responses.


You realise that that data could be used to prove the exact opposite point, right? I don't care if people searching "Brewdog is shit" find this thread or not, because people looking for reasons to avoid Brewdog will be able to find plenty of those from other sources anyway, and tbh it's probably best if they can just get on with reading about them without having to contend with your witterings. On the other hand, searching "[company name] + hip brand" would probably be more likely to mostly throw up positive results, so getting a thread about them being shit onto the first page for that could be counted as more of an achievement.

And either way, people googling "Brewdog" probably have a fair bit of brand awareness of Brewdog anyway, by virtue of the fact that they're looking it up, to really land the point you're trying to make you'd have to show that, for instance, searching "hip brand" without the Brewdog gives you this thread. Then I'd concede you might have some kind of point, but I think there's probably a fair few more prominent results you have to go through before you reach this thread.

By the way, I was trying to think what the teuchter/bimble/spymaster stance on this thread reminds me of, and I think it's this passage from the essay Dead Reckoning, about nihilism and Jack London - I'm not entirely a massive fan of the essay as a whole, but this bit has always stayed with/tickled me:

_"There is a silly futility to most of these people. They lambast others for using narratives and concepts that have a certain heritage in previous regimes of meaning, whether religious or political, as if people don’t readily know that these things come with such baggage—that revolution, for example, has millenarian overtones. The ultimate image is humorous. The baby-faced nihilist jumps up in the middle of the play to declare to the audience: my god, you all have to stop watching, the people up there are pretending to be people they aren’t, the backdrop is painted on, it’s all fake! What can we say to these baby-faces, once their vitriol calms and they sit back down, nervous, infuriated, but too tired to scream at us anymore? Maybe just that eternal condolence: Sorry bro."_

"My god, Brewdog's contrarian marketing schemes have built into them the assumption that people will generate negative chatter about them that still serves the overall goal of increasing their brand awareness! You have to stop talking about them otherwise you're doing what they want!" "Sorry bro."


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 30, 2021)

Marvellous stuff!


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Of the three supermarkets in walking distance from my front door, the only AF things you can get reliably are the rubbish big-brand lagers or the Brewdog ones. Occasionally one of them will have the AF Old Speckled Hen. If I want anything else, I have to go to the expensive and pretentious beer shop a bit further away, which I do do from time to time, and I've tried the Infinite Sessions ones I think and found them decent.


Even for you this is a bizarre argument.   They must be good cos you can find them easily? Often you’ll only be able to buy one brand in a supermarket because they will insist on being the sole product in that category.   So what you’re praising is market manipulation and monopolistic practises.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 30, 2021)

belboid said:


> Even for you this is a bizarre argument.   They must be good cos you can find them easily? Often you’ll only be able to buy one brand in a supermarket because they will insist on being the sole product in that category.   So what you’re praising is market manipulation and monopolistic practises.


But supermarkets decide which is the one brand they'll stock by going on urban and checking which companies have the longest threads about them, or something.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

belboid said:


> Even for you this is a bizarre argument.   They must be good cos you can find them easily? Often you’ll only be able to buy one brand in a supermarket because they will insist on being the sole product in that category.   So what you’re praising is market manipulation and monopolistic practises.


I'm not praising anything. I'm simply stating fact.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

NoXion said:


> The fact that BrewDog haven't tried buying this forum doesn't prove that it's an asset to them.


Taken along with the fact that the controversies they brew up almost always seem designed to get a response from the kind of people who post on this forum and this thread, it suggests very much that it is.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Taken along with the fact that the controversies they brew up almost always seem designed to get a response from the kind of people who post on this forum and this thread, it suggests very much that it is.



You're assuming that a critical response to edgy marketing will guarantee profits. It's not the ones on this thread critical of BrewDog who actually buy their shite. It's the dickheads like you who make excuses.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Taken along with the fact that the controversies they brew up almost always seem designed to get a response from the kind of people who post on this forum and this thread, it suggests very much that it is.


You're the kind of people that post on this forum too.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> getting a thread about them being shit onto the first page for that could be counted as more of an achievement.


 Please don't be offended that I've snipped out the rest of your essay. But you are making the same fundamental mistake as NoXion and others. No normal consumer who finds this thread is going to actually read it.

If people want to get a message out to the world about Brewdog, they need to find a serious platform. Not an urban75 thread.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> You're the kind of people that post on this forum too.


Actually, most people of my kind don't. Just because Scott of the Antarctic went to the Antarctic, it doesn't mean that most naval officers did that in the early 20th century.


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Taken along with the fact that the controversies they brew up almost always seem designed to get a response from the kind of people who post on this forum and this thread, it suggests very much that it is.


Maybe you’re right.  It would explain why GBNews is such a massive success too.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Taken along with the fact that the controversies they brew up almost always seem designed to get a response from the kind of people who post on this forum and this thread, it suggests very much that it is.


Thing is, there's controversies and controversies. If you're talking about people doing edgy contrarian marketing, then yeah, fair enough, I think it is part of the plan to do some culture war stuff where people will mention the brand both positively and negatively. But the two most recent big things on this thread have been 1) the open letter from employees and ex-employees about a toxic workplace culture, and 2) them ripping people off with a supposedly solid gold can which actually wasn't. In those particular instances, I don't think they're at the level of 4-dimensional chess strategy where they were thinking "ah-ha, if we can just create enough of a toxic workplace culture that our staff write an open letter complaining about it, and rip some guy off with a shoddy brass can so that he sues us, we can get people to bump the urban thread about us."


----------



## pbsmooth (Jun 30, 2021)

nobody is finding this thread through Google. the end.


----------



## souljacker (Jun 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Admirable.
> 
> Will you extend this principle to other areas of your consumption, or just beer?


Depends


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 30, 2021)

I'd be surprised if Brewdog even knew this site existed, never mind this thread.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 30, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Thing is, there's controversies and controversies. If you're talking about people doing edgy contrarian marketing, then yeah, fair enough, I think it is part of the plan to do some culture war stuff where people will mention the brand both positively and negatively. But the two most recent big things on this thread have been 1) the open letter from employees and ex-employees about a toxic workplace culture, and 2) them ripping people off with a supposedly solid gold can which actually wasn't. In those particular instances, I don't think they're at the level of 4-dimensional chess strategy where they were thinking "ah-ha, if we can just create enough of a toxic workplace culture that our staff write an open letter complaining about it, and rip some guy off with a shoddy brass can so that he sues us, we can get people to bump the urban thread about us."


I doubt their shit treatment of staff was a marketing gimmick, more likely it's a consequence of them being cunts, and it likely will result in a drop in sales, but people have short memories, and I'd put money on solid gold cans suddenly appearing, which will more than offset the negative publicity.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jun 30, 2021)

Also for me, It's the fakeness of their brand. They are trying to look like a small company, with lad or lass doing the marketing part-time; something Steve or Steph* is doing when not on the shop floor making tasty rebellious beer. Same with HR, our HR ain't great, but Jo/Joe only does it a few hours a week.  
When in fact their a large company with venture capital backing hiring private jets. 

I have a similar view of Innocent Smoothies. They pretend to be caring, and maybe they are, but they sold out to Coke, so I don't by Innocent, but I do buy Coke as they are not pretending

*Other names are available.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 30, 2021)

souljacker said:


> Depends


On what?


----------



## souljacker (Jun 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> On what?


Lots of things. Mainly, can I get the same service from a less cunty company. If I can, I'll take my business to them.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 30, 2021)

souljacker said:


> Lots of things. Mainly, can I get the same service from a less cunty company. If I can, I'll take my business to them.



What if you can get the same service but it'll cost you a bit more, but the slightly more expensive company is several orders of magnitude less cunty?


----------



## souljacker (Jun 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> What if you can get the same service but it'll cost you a bit more, but the slightly more expensive company is several orders of magnitude less cunty?


Then I spend a bit more.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 30, 2021)

souljacker said:


> Then I spend a bit more.



Cool. 

Would you use a Huawei mobile phone, given that they are one of the most sexist and racist employers in existence who contribute to a regime involved in state genocide, when there are perfectly reasonable Apple and Samsung alternatives?


----------



## bimble (Jun 30, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> ..
> I honestly believe that short of noncery charges, Brewdog's profits are only going one way. Its a sad indictment of the world we live in.


That’s the bit that I find interesting, why are they so wildly successful above all the other fancy beer makers ?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 30, 2021)

bimble said:


> i'm going to be seen as a Brewdog Supporter now, even though i poured that one can of Nanny State down the sink and put it in he recycling.
> If its any use i have about as much desire to go and drink in one of their fake brick-fake graffiti bars as i have to join a gym.
> Just think the phenomenon is interesting. Bad publicity is the key to their success.


Yeh but you bought that overhopped urine whether you drank it or no


----------



## souljacker (Jun 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Cool.
> 
> Would you use a Huawei mobile phone, given that they are one of the most sexist and racist employers in existence who contribute to a regime involved in state genocide, when there are perfectly reasonable Apple and Samsung alternatives?



I have in the past but wouldn't now though. Also won't use Samsung because they are arms manufacturers who use a lot of conflict materials (and I hate their bloatware). But phones are tricky because all phone manufacturers have some bad stuff going on so there aren't many alternatives. I may buy a Fairphone next but not really looked into it.

Has that satisfied your bloodlust yet or do you want to question any more of my buying decisions?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 30, 2021)

bimble said:


> That’s the bit that I find interesting, why are they so wildly successful above all the other fancy beer makers ?


I'm guessing dead squirrels and other such nonsense.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

Storm Fox said:


> I have a similar view of Innocent Smoothies. They pretend to be caring, and maybe they are, but they sold out to Coke, so I don't by Innocent, but I do buy Coke as they are not pretending



The thing with Brewdog is that they are pretending but in a way that makes it fairly obvious they are pretending, as a kind of wind-up. So really they are more honest than most companies. 

There are many people who don't realise they are mainly on a wind-up. A certain portion of them get all outraged on the internet; another portion become actual non-ironic Brewdog fans. Either way it's a kind of stupid-tax thing.


----------



## belboid (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> The thing with Brewdog is that they are pretending but in a way that makes it fairly obvious they are pretending, as a kind of wind-up. So really they are more honest than most companies.
> 
> There are many people who don't realise they are mainly on a wind-up. A certain portion of them get all outraged on the internet; another portion become actual non-ironic Brewdog fans. Either way it's a kind of stupid-tax thing.


You do love your circular arguments.   I bet you’re really impressing yourself.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> The thing with Brewdog is that they are pretending but in a way that makes it fairly obvious they are pretending, as a kind of wind-up. So really they are more honest than most companies.
> 
> There are many people who don't realise they are mainly on a wind-up. A certain portion of them get all outraged on the internet; another portion become actual non-ironic Brewdog fans. Either way it's a kind of stupid-tax thing.



I was literally getting paid while debunking your nonsense earlier, you fucking muppet. What "stupid-tax"?


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

NoXion said:


> I was literally getting paid while debunking your nonsense earlier, you fucking muppet. What "stupid-tax"?


You were "debunking my nonsense" instead of doing something useful like campaigning for human rights. But you don't care about human rights, because you were "literally getting paid"? Disgraceful behaviour.


----------



## bimble (Jun 30, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Yeh but you bought that overhopped urine whether you drank it or no


No, it was a fridge donation someone left here. I find the packaging unattractive and don’t really like tasty beers anyway, more of a plain fizzy lager person, so haven’t bought anything of theirs.


----------



## T & P (Jun 30, 2021)

The last 6 or 7 pages of this thread are pure comedy gold(plated) stuff. Well done everyone


----------



## mojo pixy (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Actually, most *people of my kind* don't. Just because Scott of the Antarctic went to the Antarctic, it doesn't mean that most naval officers did that in the early 20th century.


I don't think there's any 'kind' of person that posts on this site, except for the kind of person who owns an internet-capable device. 

This thread is utter poison btw. And I agree any of the owners the company in question pitched up and read it, they either
a) wouldn't care a jot, or
b) would laugh their arses off 

So in case that ever happens let me add, it's a shit company. I've never bought a single thing from them and never will. When I saw a drink called "punkIPA" I thought, "wankers" but who the fuck am I? I don't own a bar at Bristol Bridge but they do and that's what matters. And that's how they see things.

It's wankers all the way down.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

I for one am looking forward to the insights that the next 6 or 7 pages will offer.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> You were "debunking my nonsense" instead of doing something useful like campaigning for human rights. But you don't care about human rights, because you were "literally getting paid"? Disgraceful behaviour.



Yeah, now this I can tell is a really desperate attempt by you to get under my skin. I note that _you_ weren't being a champion of human rights during our exchange. Still aren't in fact. What kind of monster are you?


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 30, 2021)

souljacker said:


> I have in the past but wouldn't now though. Also won't use Samsung because they are arms manufacturers who use a lot of conflict materials (and I hate their bloatware). But phones are tricky because all phone manufacturers have some bad stuff going on so there aren't many alternatives. I may buy a Fairphone next but not really looked into it.


Why wouldn't you buy a Huawei phone now?

You're right that pretty much every mobile phone manufacurer 'has some bad stuff going on' but it's very hard to argue that any come within light years of Huawei on the cunt front. Yet a thread critical of them makes a mere 3 pages, whilst one about Brewdog, who don't even play in the same stratosphere as Huawei when it comes to outright cuntery has been rolling along for 5 years and is nudging 100 pages!

I'm just wondering why that is that Huawei fanboys won't hear a word against them


----------



## souljacker (Jun 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Yet a thread critical of them makes a mere 3 pages, whilst one about Brewdog, who don't even play in the same stratosphere as Huawei when it comes to outright cuntery has been rolling along for 5 years and is nudging 100 pages!
> 
> I'm just wondering why that is that Huawei fanboys won't hear a word against them



Was it started by editor? Because there are certain people who love to call him out on all sorts of things so his threads always get attacked.

I can't say I've ever met a Huawei fanboy. The Huawei phone I had was a nexus 6p and if I'm honest, I wasn't aware it was made by them until I cracked the screen and had to get it sent off for repair. Either way, I wouldn't buy one now due to concerns over their security and their links to the Chinese Army. Also, they aren't (can't) using Android anymore.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 30, 2021)

NoXion said:


> Yeah, now this I can tell is a really desperate attempt by you to get under my skin. I note that _you_ weren't being a champion of human rights during our exchange. Still aren't in fact. What kind of monster are you?


I've spent all day trying to explain to people why they shouldn't assist brewdog's marketing by posting on this thread. So in fact yes I have been being a champion of human rights. And I wasn't even getting paid for it.

Unfortunately my work is it somewhat futile when dealing with a group of people unable to get their head round the concept of "don't feed the troll".


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 30, 2021)

souljacker said:


> Was it started by editor?



No. It was started by Stuff It, iirc.



> I can't say I've ever met a Huawei fanboy. The Huawei phone I had was a nexus 6p and if I'm honest, I wasn't aware it was made by them until I cracked the screen and had to get it sent off for repair. Either way, I wouldn't buy one now due to concerns over their security and their links to the Chinese Army.



Fair do's.

You, at least, appear reasonably ethically consistent.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jun 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Why wouldn't you buy a Huawei phone now?
> 
> You're right that pretty much every mobile phone manufacurer 'has some bad stuff going on' but it's very hard to argue that any come within light years of Huawei on the cunt front. Yet a thread critical of them makes a mere 3 pages, whilst one about Brewdog, who don't even play in the same stratosphere as Huawei when it comes to outright cuntery has been rolling along for 5 years and is nudging 100 pages!
> 
> I'm just wondering why that is that Huawei fanboys won't hear a word against them


People generally don't care much about how workers in other countries are treated, which is likely why the Huawei thread was a flop. NIMBYism, with a side order of "Fuck you, I own a Huawei!"  But most people here don't drink Brewdog, so they're a good, local target. 

What's funny is this... the people who own Brewdog most likely have an exit strategy, so they'll probably be sat on a beach, sipping Remy Louis XIII and snorting Colombian marching powder through the hollowed out tail of a dead squirrel, and laughing their tits off while people are still talking about them on this thread.


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 30, 2021)

teuchter said:


> The thing with Brewdog is that they are pretending but in a way that makes it fairly obvious they are pretending, as a kind of wind-up.





teuchter said:


> Unfortunately my work is it somewhat futile when dealing with a group of people unable to get their head round the concept of "don't feed the troll".


I feel like there may be some kind of subtext here. Sorry bro, I guess?


----------



## souljacker (Jun 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> You, at least, appear reasonably ethically consistent.


Thanks for your endorsement


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 30, 2021)

YW


----------



## hitmouse (Jun 30, 2021)

oops wrong thread


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2021)

Great stuff and proof that not all publicity is good publicity: 



> Some of the small investors the Scottish brewer calls “punks” — who have invested more than £80m and been reliable drinkers of its lagers and ales — are now concerned that attractive financial terms offered to private equity groups mean they will end up losing money even if BrewDog’s value increases.
> 
> “I wouldn’t have invested at all if I’d known what the culture was within the company,” said Andrew O’Neill, a 53-year-old veteran of Belfast’s hospitality industry who invested several thousand pounds last year. “The sheen has come off BrewDog for me.” Richard White, a London-based brewer who invested eight years ago, said: “I’m angry and I feel a bit responsible for enabling this . . . I feel a bit guilty for swallowing the BrewDog Kool-Aid, because clearly that hasn’t been everyone’s experience.”





> The company, seen as one of the biggest success stories of the UK’s craft beer boom, has struggled to respond to the criticism, risking alienating the “punks” who have provided crucial funding for its expansion. The complaints bring a further challenge after BrewDog’s growth slowed sharply in the pandemic, making it harder for the company to justify a high valuation as it moves towards a planned IPO.
> 
> “If not adequately addressed, then the criticisms could grow into a crisis for a consumer-led business like BrewDog,” said Dave McCarthy, managing director at consultancy Drinks Adviser.
> 
> ...


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 1, 2021)

Punk is dead


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 1, 2021)

To be fair, it's always been said on this thread that Brewdog is not punk.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jul 1, 2021)

Punk. You had to be there man.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 1, 2021)

not-bono-ever said:


> Punk. You had to be there man.


if you can remember the 1970s you weren't there


----------



## editor (Jul 1, 2021)

Can anyone access these and repost the highlights/lowlights please?



> After this month’s allegations of bullying at the company that Watt, 38, co-founded with Martin Dickie, 38, in Fraserburgh, Scotland in 2007, new questions are adding to their burdens, this time concerning businesses that belong to Watt that secured property worth hundreds of thousands of pounds and other deals with BrewDog.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> The co-founder of BrewDog is selling off personal property assets linked to the craft brewer ahead of a planned flotation amid concerns over potential conflicts of interest.
> 
> James Watt told The Times that his remaining property holdings rented to the Scottish brewer were “in the process of being divested” and that three sites he owned and leased to BrewDog had been sold in the past two years.
> 
> ...


----------



## seeformiles (Jul 2, 2021)

More “anarchy” :









						A new 'epic' pizza restaurant is coming to Leeds
					

The restaurant is popular across the UK




					www.leeds-live.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 2, 2021)

seeformiles said:


> More “anarchy” :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



BASTARDS!!!!


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2021)

seeformiles said:


> More “anarchy” :
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I didn't think it would be possible to come up with a something as embarrassingly naff and cod-punk as Brewdog but I've got to give this guy credit. It really looks like a new business venture for Brewdog and he spouts the same kind of bullshit.





> Owner, Brad Stevens speaking about the new restaurant launching, said: “At Pizza Punks we do things differently and don’t conform to the norm when it comes to making incredible food that appeals to everyone.
> 
> "We offer customers the freedom to make the experience their own because pizza is the new punk and there are no hard and fast rules with it.


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2021)

More proof that any publicity is good publicity. Oh, wait....



> BrewDog’s president has withdrawn from a prominent conference after a group of ex-employees signed an open letter exposing the “toxic” work culture at the company earlier this month.
> 
> David McDowall, president and chief operating officer of the Ellon’s brewery, has pulled out from a TED talk, TEDxAberdeen has announced.
> 
> ...



And look at the kind of people Brewdog hire to head up the company:












						BrewDog boss cancels TED talk 'to focus energies' after allegations
					

BrewDog’s president has withdrawn from a prominent conference after a group of ex-employees signed an open letter exposing the “toxic” work…




					www.heraldscotland.com


----------



## seeformiles (Jul 2, 2021)

editor said:


> I didn't think it would be possible to come up with a something as embarrassingly naff and cod-punk as Brewdog but I've got to give this guy credit. It really looks like a new business venture for Brewdog and he spouts the same kind of bullshit.
> 
> View attachment 276412



I think they give BD a run for their money in terms of monetising a very strange notion of “Punk” as rebellious catering. The “new punk” is apparently cheese on toast 😋


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 2, 2021)

editor said:


> More proof that any publicity is good publicity. Oh, wait....
> 
> 
> 
> ...






> "There is a small disclaimer on the mirror, *however I will also look at making that bigger*. We also have a toilet attendant who advises the ladies about the mirror.
> 
> "To date you are the first complaint, everyone else so far has seen it as we intended, as a bit of fun. *We would have done the same with the male toilet, however structurally there wasn't the optio*n."



WTF! First BIB how about you just stop it and replace it with a normal mirror. As for the second BIB my BS meter just exploded.   

If you want your jollies like that go, to a club where the women have consented to be spied on and are paid to be leered at.


----------



## editor (Jul 2, 2021)

Storm Fox said:


> WTF! First BIB how about you just stop it and replace it with a normal mirror. As for the second BIB my BS meter just exploded.
> 
> If you want your jollies like that go, to a club where the women have consented to be spied on and are paid to be leered at.


And that's the kind of dodgy filth that Brewdog hire in to be the President & COO of their company.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 2, 2021)

seeformiles said:


> I think they give BD a run for their money in terms of monetising a very strange notion of “Punk” as rebellious catering. The “new punk” is apparently cheese on toast 😋


They’re very clearly riding the coat tails on of an already established and highly successful brand. Excellent strategy. Hopefully they’ll be as successful as their superbly commercial luminaries.

Appropriating the “punk” thing is actually more inspired than the crappy original ever was. 👍👍


----------



## seeformiles (Jul 3, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> They’re very clearly riding the coat tails on of an already established and highly successful brand. Excellent strategy. Hopefully they’ll be as successful as their superbly commercial luminaries.
> 
> Appropriating the “punk” thing is actually more inspired than the crappy original ever was. 👍👍



Well it might breathe new life into a thread that was running out of steam - especially since the pizza lot have now turned “Punk” into a verb.


----------



## hitmouse (Jul 3, 2021)

seeformiles said:


> Well it might breathe new life into a thread that was running out of steam - especially since the pizza lot have now turned “Punk” into a verb.


now? How quickly we forget Ashton Kutcher's achievements.


----------



## seeformiles (Jul 3, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> now? How quickly we forget Ashton Kutcher's achievements.



Damn - that one passed me by 🙂


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 3, 2021)

I remember the nightclub two way mirror stuff, it made quite a stir at the time here in Glasgow. It was ordered removed and the nightclub shut down until it was rectified. There was a police investigation although I don't know if any charges were made.

There's a large number of complaints about the bouncers on the internet as well as dodgy practices around the booth bookings - people alleging they didn't get what they paid for. Doesn't look like a great night out to be honest.


----------



## TopCat (Jul 4, 2021)

Elpenor said:


> A lot of my mates are craft beer lovers. I don’t know why you’d want to drink overpriced coke-can sized beer with cartoon packaging with a gimmicky ingredient -liquorice allsorts IPA, toilet duck milk stout etc



I am getting to be really annoyed by beardie beer. Arseholes ignoring centuries of brewing knowledge and adding shite to brews and wanking off over the orange gak  tasting sludge. 

I have been able to ignore most of it up to now bar a bit of muttering but some south London pubs are all crap Peckham brewd  by arses beers. All of them!


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2021)

TopCat said:


> I am getting to be really annoyed by beardie beer. Arseholes ignoring centuries of brewing knowledge and adding shite to brews and wanking off over the orange gak  tasting sludge.
> 
> I have been able to ignore most of it up to now bar a bit of muttering but some south London pubs are all crap Peckham brewd  by arses beers. All of them!


Mind you, you've got to laugh at the amount of money they hand over for the  piddly little cans of their on-trend craft ale. I find it hilarious that Brewdog chumps pay shitloads more to drink in the edgy glow of their neon-lit bar in Brixton when the exact same drink is considerably cheaper in the pub across the road.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 7, 2021)

Brewdog Instagram ad banned for misleading health claims
					

The brewery company made general health claims that are not allowed for alcoholic drink promotions.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




continuing their long strategy of deliberately breaking advertising rules to generate extra publicity I see


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2021)

Cerv said:


> Brewdog Instagram ad banned for misleading health claims
> 
> 
> The brewery company made general health claims that are not allowed for alcoholic drink promotions.
> ...


Compulsive capitalist liars happy to spout any old shit and mislead customers to make more money for themselves. 



> The ASA said consumers would understand the claim "a little bit of alcohol" to mean that the product was low alcohol when it had an ABV of 5%, finding that the ad breached the Advertising Code on this point also.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 7, 2021)

editor said:


> Compulsive capitalist liars happy to spout any old shit and mislead customers to make more money for themselves.



The 'The little bit of Alcohol' for a 5% drink is for me the worst claim. If you are trying to cut down on your units and do not look too carefully, you may think it's better for you than a standard Ale, when it has more. I give them some credit as it does say 5% on the front of the can, but the claim is still wrong and for this there should be some sanction. 
In insolation, the other claims I feel need a slap on the wrist. But given their track record a massive bollocking should to stop them producing mislead ads in future.


----------



## editor (Jul 7, 2021)

Storm Fox said:


> The 'The little bit of Alcohol' for a 5% drink is for me the worst claim. If you are trying to cut down on your units and do not look too carefully, you may think it's better for you than a standard Ale, when it has more. I give them some credit as it does say 5% on the front of the can, but the claim is still wrong and for this there should be some sanction.
> In insolation, the other claims I feel need a slap on the wrist. But given their track record a massive bollocking should to stop them producing mislead ads in future.


The text saying 5% is absolutely tiny and it could clearly mislead people who are trying to cut down their alcohol for health reasons/driving etc. But - hey! - profits!


----------



## belboid (Jul 7, 2021)

Storm Fox said:


> But given their track record a massive bollocking should to stop them producing mislead ads in future.


They’ll never stop producing misleading ads they’re far more important to the company than the actual product.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 7, 2021)

I wasn’t awake this morning. Thought the 5% was 0.5% on first read. Like a can of Panda Shandy. And the ASA were being a bit too harsh. 
Guess I’m the target market for being tricked into buying the stuff 🤣

You can give them “some credit” for including the 5% label on the can, but that is legally mandated so not a lot really.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 7, 2021)

Cerv said:


> I wasn’t awake this morning. Thought the 5% was 0.5% on first read. Like a can of Panda Shandy. And the ASA were being a bit too harsh.
> Guess I’m the target market for being tricked into buying the stuff 🤣
> 
> You can give them “some credit” for including the 5% label on the can, but that is legally mandated so not a lot really.


I tend to look for these things like ABV so I thought it wasn't too bad, A lot of cans have it small writing on the back of the can, but as you've just pointed out with that wording and a quick glance people can be easily misled


----------



## salem (Jul 7, 2021)

editor said:


> Can anyone access these and repost the highlights/lowlights please?





			https://archive.is/HEajX
		

and


			https://archive.is/rpNUA
		


Looks to be more on him renting property back to the company, some kind of accounting dodge -

i.e

_Under the deal, BrewDog provided Watt’s company with an interest-free loan to purchase the property for $657,816. The loan was repaid in 2018. BrewDog entered into a five-year lease to pay rent to Watt’s company of $150,000 a year._

Borrowing (interest free) money from Brewdog to buy a property to then rent back to Brewdog - it's a way of shifting money from the company to his personal pocket. At the end of the 5 years the loan is paid off (by Brewdog) and James still has the assset. Such deals rightly piss off shareholders - but the 'equity punks' thing is more of a fanclub then a real investment.

(top tip - archive.is is great for getting around paywalls)


----------



## steeplejack (Jul 7, 2021)

But the BuRgeRz


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 7, 2021)

Cerv said:


> Guess I’m the target market for being tricked into buying the stuff 🤣



If you're the kind of person who would consume a beverage described as having "a little bit of alcohol" without reading the can to see what constitutes "a little bit of alcohol", then thank god for the ASA!


----------



## teuchter (Jul 7, 2021)

It's the Nanny State in action.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 7, 2021)

teuchter said:


> It's the Nanny State in action.
> 
> View attachment 277364



These are the kind of people for whom this type of packaging is probably useful:


----------



## teuchter (Jul 7, 2021)

Seems reasonable to warn that a pack of peanuts might contain things that aren't peanuts. 

But complaining that a can with "5%ABV" written on it, purchased from the booze shelf, does not give a reasonably competent person an indication that they are buying an alcoholic drink - seems to be pushing it a bit. Totally normal kind of thing for this thread though.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 7, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Seems reasonable to warn that a pack of peanuts might contain things that aren't peanuts.
> 
> But complaining that a can with "5%ABV" written on it, purchased from the booze shelf, does not give a reasonably competent person an indication that they are buying an alcoholic drink - seems to be pushing it a bit. Totally normal kind of thing for this thread though.


I'm surprised to see you siding with Brewdog on this. You're normally front and centre in defense of the nanny state.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jul 7, 2021)

They it has 'a little bit of alcohol is it'. Inferring it is lo alcohol, but lo alcohol beer has a legal definition of being below 1.2%. so this is misleading. 
Especially to people who want to improve their health.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 7, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'm surprised to see you siding with Brewdog on this. You're normally front and centre in defense of the nanny state.


I think the state should intervene to stop you riding your motorbike at 200mph on country lanes and telling children that it's their own fault if you kill them when they step out without looking for 200mph joyriders.

Not sure they need to intervene to stop someone unintentionally buying a clearly labelled alcoholic drink.

It can be pretty hard to decide just where to draw the line - but I've decided to squeeze my line somewhere inbetween those two things.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 7, 2021)

Storm Fox said:


> They it has 'a little bit of alcohol is it'. Inferring it is lo alcohol, but lo alcohol beer has a legal definition of being below 1.2%. so this is misleading.
> Especially to people who want to improve their health.


Dunno about you but for me it's not normal practice to look at instagram whilst in the supermarket and then buy something mentioned in a post.

Brewdog's intention with that instagram post was not to lead people to unknowingly purchase alcohol but to start an argument and get publicity, and it worked as usual.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Storm Fox said:


> They it has 'a little bit of alcohol is it'. Inferring it is lo alcohol, but lo alcohol beer has a legal definition of being below 1.2%. so this is misleading.
> Especially to people who want to improve their health.


Also if people are trying to avoid alcohol because they're driving 5% is a fair amount.


----------



## salem (Jul 7, 2021)

And most annoyingly the BBC (and others) are bloody leading the stories with the actual 'banned' advert itself. I sure as hell didn't see the original advert - I wouldn't be surprised if the only people who did see it in its original form were a few unpaid interns who were tasked with reporting it. I've seen it rebroadcast a few times now.

It's bloody alcoholic sparkling water, about the naffest idea possible.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 7, 2021)

salem said:


> It's bloody alcoholic sparkling water, about the naffest idea possible.


Slightly alcoholic sparkling water.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 7, 2021)

salem said:


> It's bloody alcoholic sparkling water, about the naffest idea possible.


No more stupid than making alcoholic beer when we can now make quite good non alcoholic beer.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Also if people are trying to avoid alcohol because they're driving 5% is a fair amount.


What kind of thundering moron do you need to be to consume a drink sold as “contains a little alcohol” if you are trying to avoid alcohol? 🤣


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 7, 2021)

I had heard of Brewdog beers in the silly cans, had no idea they did pubs though, the menus look quite nice. Spymaster I notice there's one near you, is it any good?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Also if people are trying to avoid alcohol because they're driving 5% is a fair amount.




Fair amount can mean two very contradictory things in that post.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 7, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> *What kind of thundering moron* do you need to be to consume a drink sold as “contains a little alcohol” if you are trying to avoid alcohol? 🤣


A car owner.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Fair amount can mean two very contradictory things in that post.


I meant a large amount, which you would want to avoid if driving. Plus the can size is 300ml, it would be easy to knock back a few in a short space of time.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> I meant a large amount, which you would want to avoid if driving. Plus the can size is 300ml, it would be easy to knock back a few in a short space of time.


I'd argue that you shouldn't be drinking _any_ alcohol if you're driving.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 7, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I had heard of Brewdog beers in the silly cans, had no idea they did pubs though, the menus look quite nice. Spymaster I notice there's one near you, is it any good?



I think the nearest one to us is in Camden, home of The Camden Town Brewery, so the locals there have been used to shit beer for years. I couldn't tell you what the bar's like and I can't stand over-hopped fizz-piss so I won't be going any time soon but I might swing by for one of their BuRgeRz sometime and report back.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 7, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'd argue that you shouldn't be drinking _any_ alcohol if you're driving.



At the very least you'd check the alcohol content of something sold as "contains a little alcohol", unless you're the dimmest cunt in the world.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 7, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> At the very least you'd check the alcohol content of something sold as "contains a little alcohol", unless you're the dimmest cunt in the world.


It'd make sense, and tbh, 5% is very little, especially compared to 100%


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'd argue that you shouldn't be drinking _any_ alcohol if you're driving.


And I agree. But someone might have believed the ad that there was 'only a little' assume that it was 0.1% or something and drink enough to fail a breathalyser.

That's why the as was banned. And yes Spymaster there are some dim people out there who would..


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 7, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> And yes Spymaster there are some dim people out there who would..


Yeah, I guess, but to me this kind of stuff is up there with labels on bottles of drain cleaner telling people not to drink it. 

Seriously, come on. Anyone who needs to be told probably isn't bright enough to heed the warning.


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 7, 2021)

Some people have learning disabilities.

Some people need things to be spelled out with words, not numbers. 

Some people are gullible/naive and believe what they're told by people who pretend to be their friends, even when those "people" are actually a business. 

I think such people matter as much as clever and/or wise and/or neurotypical people.


----------



## Cerv (Jul 7, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> If you're the kind of person who would consume a beverage described as having "a little bit of alcohol" without reading the can to see what constitutes "a little bit of alcohol", then thank god for the ASA!


lol I just mean I did a double take. no danger of accidentally purchase or consumption.



salem said:


> And most annoyingly the BBC (and others) are bloody leading the stories with the actual 'banned' advert itself. I sure as hell didn't see the original advert - I wouldn't be surprised if the only people who did see it in its original form were a few unpaid interns who were tasked with reporting it. I've seen it rebroadcast a few times now.
> 
> It's bloody alcoholic sparkling water, about the naffest idea possible.


true. I'm reminded that one of the two Brewdog founders famously reported their own Nanny State adverts to the ASA a few years ago, to get the free publicity of the inevitable banning.


----------



## hitmouse (Jul 7, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I had heard of Brewdog beers in the silly cans, had no idea they did pubs though, the menus look quite nice. Spymaster I notice there's one near you, is it any good?


I have to warn you, I think the prices in Brewdog pubs might be a little bit steeper than in spoons. Although I've never actually been in one of the fucking places, so maybe you can get a pint for £2 in there, who knows?


----------



## hash tag (Jul 7, 2021)

BBC News - Brewdog defies watchdog to reuse banned ad again








						Brewdog defies watchdog to reuse banned ad again
					

The firm's ad was banned by watchdog for making general health claims not allowed for alcoholic drinks.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 7, 2021)

Toddlers playing up for attention, which the BBC gives them. Reinforcing and rewarding shitty behaviour.

Basic childcare 101 - reinforce and reward good behaviour, ignore/minimise attention given to bad behaviour.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 7, 2021)

hash tag said:


> BBC News - Brewdog defies watchdog to reuse banned ad again
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Let's see how much MS newstime we can get devoted to Brewdog".

Genius


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 7, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> "Let's see how much MS newstime we can get devoted to Brewdog".
> 
> Genius


"BBC reporters found thousands of posts about Brewdog on social media" 
It's almost as if they know what they're doing.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 8, 2021)

It is like dealing with a petulant child.


----------



## hitmouse (Jul 8, 2021)

editor said:


> I didn't think it would be possible to come up with a something as embarrassingly naff and cod-punk as Brewdog but I've got to give this guy credit. It really looks like a new business venture for Brewdog and he spouts the same kind of bullshit.
> 
> View attachment 276412


Well well well, who would've thought it:


----------



## hitmouse (Jul 8, 2021)

.


----------



## hitmouse (Jul 8, 2021)

..


----------



## NoXion (Jul 8, 2021)

teuchter said:


> No more stupid than making alcoholic beer when we can now make quite *good non alcoholic beer*.



No such thing.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 8, 2021)

NoXion said:


> No such thing.


When it comes to encouraging problem drinking, toxic masculinity and Binge Britain culture, this kind of attitude is much more harmful than a bit of tongue in cheek advertising from Brewdog.


----------



## BillRiver (Jul 8, 2021)

teuchter said:


> When it comes to encouraging problem drinking, toxic masculinity and Binge Britain culture, this kind of attitude is much more harmful than a bit of tongue in cheek advertising from Brewdog.



I wouldn't go that far, but it is grim.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 8, 2021)

teuchter said:


> When it comes to encouraging problem drinking, toxic masculinity and Binge Britain culture, this kind of attitude is much more harmful than a bit of tongue in cheek advertising from Brewdog.



Nope. You're the one who is actually paying money to those cunts.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 8, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Well well well, who would've thought it:



Oooh someone hasn't read the equality act. Although, this is an interesting point as a medical disability usually results if there is a medical condition that has an impact on daily life and could be expected to last more than 12 months.

So on the one hand, saying it's not a reasonable adjustment might be technically correct, but such an argument to the partner of someone in late pregnancy  in a fucking pandemic is the mark of an absolute cunt. 

And I'd rather be a touch more generous than thought of as a cunt.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 8, 2021)

teuchter said:


> When it comes to encouraging problem drinking, toxic masculinity and Binge Britain culture, this kind of attitude is much more harmful than a bit of tongue in cheek advertising from Brewdog.


Nonsense. All beer tastes shit. People don't drink it because it tastes nice, they drink it to get pissed, so anyone drinking non alcoholic beer and saying they like it is kidding themself.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 8, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Nonsense. All beer tastes shit. People don't drink it because it tastes nice



Speak for yourself.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 8, 2021)

NoXion said:


> Speak for yourself.


I'm just winding up teuchter.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 8, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> I'm just winding up teuchter.


So you thought. In actual fact I was in Marks & Spencer ignoring you, and NoXion got wound up instead.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 8, 2021)

NoXion said:


> Nope. You're the one who is actually paying money to those cunts.


I'm actively incentivising them to do socially beneficial things like providing non alcoholic beer. You are perpetuating macho drinking culture, and are even worse than Brewdog themselves.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 8, 2021)

teuchter said:


> I'm actively incentivising them to do socially beneficial things like providing non alcoholic beer. You are perpetuating macho drinking culture, and are even worse than Brewdog themselves.



No you are not. You are directly financing a bunch of cunts. They're not gonna give a shit about you buying non-alcoholic over alcoholic beer. Money is money.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 8, 2021)

NoXion said:


> No you are not. You are directly financing a bunch of cunts. They're not gonna give a shit about you buying non-alcoholic over alcoholic beer. Money is money.


Get some decent tasting non alcoholic beer into my local supermarket that isn't Brewdog, and I'll buy it and finance your morally superior company. Alternatively, continue to criticise from your armchair. I know which option you will choose.


----------



## NoXion (Jul 8, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Get some decent tasting non alcoholic beer into my local supermarket that isn't Brewdog, and I'll buy it and finance your morally superior company. Alternatively, continue to criticise from your armchair. I know which option you will choose.



Don't bother offloading _your_ attempts at ethical consumption off on me, you gaslighting piece of shit. Look for your own fun-free pisswater.


----------



## hitmouse (Jul 8, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Get some decent tasting non alcoholic beer into my local supermarket that isn't Brewdog, and I'll buy it and finance your morally superior company. Alternatively, continue to criticise from your armchair. I know which option you will choose.


I've checked, and you can get two litres of decent-tasting non-alcoholic beer from Tesco for 50p.

Or six cans from Sainsbury's for £1.65. Happy to help.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 8, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> I've checked, and you can get two litres of decent-tasting non-alcoholic beer from Tesco for 50p.
> View attachment 277546
> Or six cans from Sainsbury's for £1.65. Happy to help.



45p/litre for the more exotic stuff.



			https://www.tesco.com/groceries/en-GB/products/258833736


----------



## NoXion (Jul 8, 2021)

Companies like Brewdog are the reason why bodies like the Advertising Standards Agency need real legal teeth. Because sooner or later you will get a bunch of scumcunts who will try their luck in system relying on honourable behaviour.


----------



## Elpenor (Jul 8, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> I've checked, and you can get two litres of decent-tasting non-alcoholic beer from Tesco for 50p.
> View attachment 277546
> Or six cans from Sainsbury's for £1.65. Happy to help.


I have the Sainsbury’s cans quite a lot, very nice with some lime and a bit of ice


----------



## tonysingh (Jul 8, 2021)

Root beer shits on ginger beer tbf


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 8, 2021)

tonysingh said:


> Root beer shits on ginger beer tbf


I'm quite fond of Fentimans, their ginger beer has quite a kick in my opinion.


----------



## hash tag (Jul 8, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Nonsense. All beer tastes shit. People don't drink it because it tastes nice, they drink it to get pissed, so anyone drinking non alcoholic beer and saying they like it is kidding themself.


Nonsense  This is a superb real ale ( Sambrooks Wandle). I am drinking it because it is such a tasty ale, pure nectar. I have no intention of getting pissed.


----------



## hitmouse (Jul 8, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Nonsense  This is a superb real ale ( Sambrooks Wandle). I am drinking it because it is such a tasty ale, pure nectar. I have no intention of getting pissed.View attachment 277562


_cranes neck_ how's the Robert Elms book?


----------



## hash tag (Jul 8, 2021)

Elms book is ok ta. A slight slog and could be seen as his families biography in relation to London. Some very interesting tid bits though ( because I didn't know them).


----------



## dessiato (Jul 9, 2021)

Should I sell my Brewdog shares? I got them as a gift. I like their beer. It's arguably the best IPA you can get here on draft.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 9, 2021)

dessiato said:


> Should I sell my Brewdog shares? I got them as a gift. I like their beer. It's arguably the best IPA you can get here on draft.



They’re not listed on an exchange at the moment.  I was under the impression this made selling them a weird and faffy process.
Guess it depends how much they’re currently worth (ie. it would take a lot to have a meaningful effect on anything) and how you think they’re likely to move.

Maybe selling them after an exchange listing would optimise the pissing-them-effect. 

There are loads of posters on here who know way more about shares than me, so just take this as spitballing.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 9, 2021)

dessiato said:


> Should I sell my Brewdog shares? I got them as a gift. I like their beer. It's arguably the best IPA you can get here on draft.


Post on this thread loads, and start Brewdog arguments on a few other forums too. That will get the share price up a bit - then sell them.


----------



## xenon (Jul 9, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Also if people are trying to avoid alcohol because they're driving 5% is a fair amount.



5% is a reasonably strong lager. If someone is going to drive I suggest they should probably check the percentage of what they’re going to drink. Or not you know by beer that says contains a bit of alcohol.


----------



## dessiato (Jul 9, 2021)

xenon said:


> 5% is a reasonably strong lager. If someone is going to drive I suggest they should probably check the percentage of what they’re going to drink. Or not you know by beer that says contains a bit of alcohol.


You really shouldn't drink alcohol and drive. That solves all the problems.


----------



## T & P (Jul 9, 2021)

dessiato said:


> Should I sell my Brewdog shares? I got them as a gift. I like their beer. It's arguably the best IPA you can get here on draft.


Donate them to the U75's server fund.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 9, 2021)

xenon said:


> 5% is a reasonably strong lager. If someone is going to drive I suggest they should probably check the percentage of what they’re going to drink. Or not you know by beer that says contains a bit of alcohol.



I suspect people don’t often pick what they are about to drink by consulting the drink company’s Twitter account.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 9, 2021)

8ball said:


> I suspect people don’t often pick what they are about to drink by consulting the drink company’s Twitter account.


Yeah. But it was on Instagram. Best practice is to get info on Instagram before drink driving.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 9, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Yeah. But it was on Instagram. Best practice is to get info on Instagram before drink driving.



Dammit - I don’t do Instagram.  I’ll just have to stick to cans of Stella in the glove compartment.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 9, 2021)

8ball said:


> Dammit - I don’t do Instagram.  I’ll just have to stick to cans of Stella in the glove compartment.


Keep them in the boot. It's usually cooler there.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 9, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Keep them in the boot. It's usually cooler there.



Yeah, but getting them out of the boot while driving might be dangerous.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 9, 2021)

8ball said:


> Yeah, but getting them out of the boot while driving might be dangerous.


Just stop in the middle of the motorway, or pull over to the hard shoulder if you can be arsed.


----------



## klang (Jul 9, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> .





hitmouse said:


> ..


careful now, a third one will get you sacked.


----------



## T & P (Jul 11, 2021)

Well, I’d happened to be thinking of having a week completely off the booze, and on the strength of the last page or two here I decided to give Brewdog’s Punk AF a go.

On the taste front, I don’t think it was particularly better than several other brands I’ve tried. It’s one of the better ones but not a standout imo. But that’s secondary to what happened to me afterwards.

It seems to have been responsible for giving me what I am almost certain was a gluten intolerance episode. And I don’t have gluten intolerance. But my boss has it, and whenever a restaurant fucks up and accidentally contaminates his food, an hour or two later he develops massive abdominal pains and his stomach bloats to such extent it looks like that of a five month pregnant woman. Which is exactly what happened to me.

Obviously not their fault and I’m not suggesting Brewdog non-alc beer gives you gluten intolerance, but I’m certainly out, and will stick to Heineken or Peroni 0.0 for my future on-the-wagon needs.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 11, 2021)

T & P said:


> Well, I’d happened to be thinking of having a week completely off the booze, and on the strength of the last page or two here I decided to give Brewdog’s Punk AF a go.
> 
> On the taste front, I don’t think it was particularly better than several other brands I’ve tried. It’s one of the better ones but not a standout imo. But that’s secondary to what happened to me afterwards.
> 
> ...


If they're using any additives, perhaps your digestive system has reacted to something like that?


----------



## nastyned (Jul 15, 2021)

Oh look, there's more: 









						Equity for Chumps: BrewDog’s Crowdfunding Model a Dubious Deal for American Investors
					

BrewDog's investment offer to American fans is long on risk, short on reward, and overpriced to boot. Here’s a closer look at our findings.




					vinepair.com


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 15, 2021)

nastyned said:


> Oh look, there's more:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a very well researched article. Thanks for sharing.


----------



## hitmouse (Jul 17, 2021)

New petition from Unite, dunno how much good it'll do but can't knock 'em for trying I suppose:








						Brewdog Workers Deserve Collective Recognition
					

In order to ensure the sustainable change needed across Brewdog, workers deserve a collective voice through their union.




					www.megaphone.org.uk


----------



## ska invita (Jul 30, 2021)

Lol 
PizzaCunts


----------



## 8ball (Jul 30, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> New petition from Unite, dunno how much good it'll do but can't knock 'em for trying I suppose:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How long before they launch 'UnionDog - Punk Solidarity'?


----------



## klang (Jul 30, 2021)

not only have they put me off hoppy beer, but now also off pizza


----------



## alex_ (Jul 30, 2021)

I don’t think this is brewdog, this is different dickheads 

“Pizza Punks likes to do things differently and uses sourdough for their pizza bases.”

so differently.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 30, 2021)

klang said:


> not only have they put me off hoppy beer, but now also off pizza



They put me off shit music snd stupid hairdos.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 30, 2021)

alex_ said:


> I don’t think this is brewdog, this is different dickheads
> 
> “Pizza Punks likes to do things differently and uses sourdough for their pizza bases.”
> 
> so differently.


Franco manca have been using sourdough for fucking years.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Jul 30, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> They put me off shit music snd stupid hairdos.


They put me off pretentious cunts


----------



## ddraig (Jul 30, 2021)

from the last page!








						BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff
					

I didn't think it would be possible to come up with a something as embarrassingly naff and cod-punk as Brewdog but I've got to give this guy credit. It really looks like a new business venture for Brewdog and he spouts the same kind of bullshit.    Well well well, who would've thought it:




					www.urban75.net


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 30, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Franco manca have been using sourdough for fucking years.


As have Glasgow favourite Paesano, iirc.


----------



## alex_ (Jul 30, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Franco manca have been using sourdough for fucking years.



everyone in south London has being doing sourdough pizza for fucking years


----------



## Chilli.s (Jul 30, 2021)

Punk tea bags


----------



## TopCat (Jul 30, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Lol
> PizzaCunts
> View attachment 281274


They are taking the piss


----------



## TopCat (Jul 30, 2021)

Using the anarchy symbol is quite a statement.


----------



## 8ball (Jul 30, 2021)

TopCat said:


> Using the anarchy symbol is quite a statement.



Not really, these days.  I see it on all sorts of marketed stuff.

It’s crass, but I like to imagine some youngster will look up what it means.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 30, 2021)

alex_ said:


> everyone in south London has being doing sourdough pizza for fucking years


Yeh it's jumped more than the shark


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jul 30, 2021)

ska invita said:


> Lol
> PizzaCunts
> View attachment 281274


Oh Christ

Not as innovative and edgy as they think they are. I imagine a fin-haired West Coast tosser reading a 2006 Unilad article


----------



## hitmouse (Aug 15, 2021)

Union claim Brewdog snubbed attempts to engage in discussions amid worker concerns
					

A trade union has accused craft beer giants, BrewDog, of ignoring its attempts to engage in discussions about workers' concerns after former…




					www.heraldscotland.com


----------



## Storm Fox (Oct 9, 2021)

Whoopsie. A massive bug in their app which allow people to access others information. It is also claimed they played down instead of being honest and now are playing down.

Source: BrewDog exposes data of 200,000 customers and shareholders



> *Update:*
> BrewDog has since provided us with the following statement:
> 
> "We are grateful to the third party technical security services firm for alerting us to this vulnerability. We are totally committed to ensuring the security of our user’s privacy. Our security protocols and vulnerability assessments are always under review and always being refined, in order that we can ensure that the risk of a cyber security incident is minimized."



But also from the story:



> Lack of alerts?​Worryingly, the company decided not to reveal the vulnerability to its users, even after it was fixed, going as far as to claim that there wasn’t anything “too exciting in this release”.





> While the company had asked the researchers not to name them in its disclosure, BleepingComputer contends that BrewDog will be forced to inform the UK’s data protection officer, since PII falls under the purview of the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR).
> 
> However, it appears the company disagrees. In a private forum post seen by _TechRadar Pro_, the company told shareholders it is under no obligation to report the incident to the Information Commissioner's Office (ICO), as per the advice of an external expert.
> 
> "The ICO is very clear on this," the company wrote. "We have to notify when users' data has been put at risk. As this was a vulnerability report, and the only personal data that was accessed was that of the third party conducting the assessment, there is no requirement to notify."



So more don't give a shit attitude from this company.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 9, 2021)

I wouldn't fuck with the ICO on GDPR obligations. They'd be better off preemptively reporting.


----------



## baldrick (Oct 20, 2021)

Brewdog's solid gold beer can ad misleading, ASA says

Oh dear. How sad. What a shame etc


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 20, 2021)

baldrick said:


> Brewdog's solid gold beer can ad misleading, ASA says
> 
> Oh dear. How sad. What a shame etc



_Just a misunderstanding between our marketing department and communications.  When we said solid gold and worth thousands we actually meant worthless junk.  Easy mistake to make.  Soz and all._


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 20, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> _Just a misunderstanding between our marketing department and communications.  When we said solid gold and worth thousands we actually meant worthless junk.  Easy mistake to make.  Soz and all._


Yeah their excuse was bollocks. I think the word 'miscommunication' was used, the buzzword of the moment for weaselling.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 20, 2021)

Gotta like the way Watt turns this into an opportunity to get video interview time on the BBC and other media outlets 

"I worked on a fishing boat before this" is going to play really well with a section of his market. Wonder if that's his work or a marketing department's.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Gotta like the way Watt turns this into an opportunity to get video interview time on the BBC and other media outlets
> 
> "I worked on a fishing boat before this" is going to play really well with a section of his market. Wonder if that's his work or a marketing department's.



What he should be explaining is why Punk IPA has gone all shit and weak. Weirdly I've not noticed a reduction in cost.  Copying Stella and Carlsberg doesn't seem particularly independent trail blazery.  I don't bother it with it these days.  Its cans of Polish lager or nothing.


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 20, 2021)

Any fine for brewdogpiss or can anyone advertise any old ballshit nowardays without consiquence?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 20, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> What he should be explaining is why Punk IPA has gone all shit and weak. Weirdly I've not noticed a reduction in cost.  Copying Stella and Carlsberg doesn't seem particularly independent trail blazery.  I don't bother it with it these days.  Its cans of Polish lager or nothing.



No idea. I don't drink Euro-fizzpiss. With Brewdog it's the business development and marketing strategies that impress me, not the beer.


----------



## Part 2 (Oct 20, 2021)

Here's another punk product for cleaning your bike, because washing up liquid isn't good enough.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 20, 2021)

"muc off" or something like it has been around for a long time. Good for degreasing chains and gears.


----------



## hitmouse (Oct 20, 2021)

Chilli.s said:


> Any fine for brewdogpiss or can anyone advertise any old ballshit nowardays without consiquence?


I was thinking that, the article seemed curiously silent on the question of whether there'll be Fines For Punks.


----------



## purves grundy (Oct 20, 2021)

hash tag said:


> "muc off" or something like it has been around for a long time. Good for degreasing chains and gears.


Yeah they've a whole range of lube and degrease related products... which I'll now have to stop buying


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 20, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Here's another punk product for cleaning your bike, because washing up liquid isn't good enough.
> 
> View attachment 293461



Evil appropriation of the word _punk._

And look_ pink _packaging! Blatant stereotyping in an attempt to appeal to women.

_BASTARDS!!!!_


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Evil appropriation of the word _punk._
> 
> And look_ pink _packaging! Blatant stereotyping in an attempt to appeal to women.
> 
> _BASTARDS!!!!_


I've been using it on my motorbikes for years, and its really good stuff. It was always pink (the liquid is pink) but this punk thing is a new addition that will definitely appeal to cyclists who probably drink Brewdog on special occasions.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 20, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> No idea. I don't drink Euro-fizzpiss. With Brewdog it's the business development and marketing strategies that impress me, not the beer.



Its the abv that impresses me.  Or at least used to.  The decline of Punk IPA is just more of Johnson's Britain where we all given up hope that anything will get any better but it would be nice if things stopped getting worse, just for one day like.


----------



## Dogsauce (Oct 20, 2021)

Part 2 said:


> Here's another punk product for cleaning your bike, because washing up liquid isn't good enough.


Washing up liquid contains salt which will corrode steel, so it isn‘t good enough.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 20, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> Washing up liquid contains salt which will corrode steel, so it isn‘t good enough.


I'm glad I'm not the only one who knows this.


----------



## dessiato (Oct 21, 2021)

I still like Brewdog. And am waiting impatiently to get to Edinburgh for Xmas when I shall find myself in a Brewdog bar.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 21, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> I was thinking that, the article seemed curiously silent on the question of whether there'll be Fines For Punks.


The ASA can't impose any kind of penalty directly. They can tell them to not do it again and their punishment can be "bad publicity" from the ruling. Of course Brewdog are more than capable of turning that publicity into something that benefits them so I doubt they will be bothered at all about this.

The complainants probably did so after reading this thread, so once again this thread has helped promote Brewdog.


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 21, 2021)

Our need to discuss is greater than anything


----------



## souljacker (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I still like Brewdog. And am waiting impatiently to get to Edinburgh for Xmas when I shall find myself in a Brewdog bar.


So many better bars in Edinburgh.


----------



## editor (Oct 21, 2021)

souljacker said:


> So many better bars in Edinburgh.


And ones that don't treat their workers like absolute shit too.


----------



## dessiato (Oct 21, 2021)

shareholders get discounts for food and beer in Brewdog pubs.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> shareholders get discounts for food and beer in Brewdog pubs.


And the BuRgERZ are exceptional, tbf.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> shareholders get discounts for food and beer in Brewdog pubs.


Yes, because shareholders also don't care about how workers are treated.


----------



## editor (Oct 21, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Yes, because shareholders also don't care about how workers are treated.


It's nothing short of baffling why anyone would walk past a selection of great independent bars - many of which will be cheaper than Brewdog even with your discount applied - just to give money to a multi-national company with a truly appalling record on how they treat their workers.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Yes, because shareholders also don't care about how workers are treated.


Actually they do; it's in their interests to see labour costs pushed down as low as possible to defend their unearned income/wealth accumulation.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Actually they do; it's in their interests to see labour costs pushed down as low as possible to defend their unearned income/wealth accumulation.



Wouldn't it be in shareholders interests to not want the workforce heading off en masse to another employer as soon as conditions look favourable?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

8ball said:


> Wouldn't it be in shareholders interests to not want the workforce heading off en masse to another employer as soon as conditions look favourable?


Haven't heard the Brewdog wankers complaining about labour shortages yet.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Haven't heard the Brewdog wankers complaining about labour shortages yet.



I was talking about in general.   I try to keep my pension funds away from companies that have a really bad record on this, I expect a lot of people do, as well as those investing in individual shares.  But also, if investing in a long-term manner rather than chasing a big short-term gain, I don't see how screwing workers over does anything but add risk since it lowers the bar for how attractive a new local prospect has to be before you get an exodus.

And re: Brewdog, maybe most of their workers aren't unhappy.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 21, 2021)

editor said:


> It's nothing short of baffling why anyone would walk past a selection of great independent bars - many of which will be cheaper than Brewdog even with your discount applied - just to give money to a multi-national company with a truly appalling record on how they treat their workers.


I admit editor, I too am completely flummoxed by this. In Edinburgh there are so many awesome independent bars, there literally is something for anyone.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 21, 2021)

I'm more flummoxed to learn that somebody can actually be interested in the marketing.  My g/f is in marketing and all day I overhear conversations about slide decks and content bins and behavioural insights et-bloody-cetra.

Fuck me.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> I admit editor, I too am completely flummoxed by this. In Edinburgh there are so many awesome independent bars, there literally is something for anyone.


Including Brewdogs!


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

8ball said:


> I was talking about in general.   I try to keep my pension funds away from companies that have a really bad record on this, I expect a lot of people do, as well as those investing in individual shares.  But also, if investing in a long-term manner rather than chasing a big short-term gain, I don't see how screwing workers over does anything but add risk since it lowers the bar for how attractive a new local prospect has to be before you get an exodus.
> 
> And re: Brewdog, maybe most of their workers aren't unhappy.


Rather shockingly the tory scum are correct to say that whole UK economy is too oriented to and dependent on screwed over workers. (Of course, the lie is that they want that to change) So, I'm sure that Brewdog are no different.


----------



## dessiato (Oct 21, 2021)

I like Brewdog beers.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I like Brewdog beers.


tbf, it's pretty difficult to find product from a brewer that isn't a massive corporate or a tory supporter/donor.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I like Brewdog beers.



Bit too "go hard on the fruit and hops" for me.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

brogdale said:


> tbf, it's pretty difficult to find product from a brewer that isn't a massive corporate or a tory supporter/donor.



These are some fellas local to be who make some of my faves.
They have a tiny pub that I could work from if I was to buy a powerful wifi extender...


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

8ball said:


> These are some fellas local to be who make some of my faves.
> They have a tiny pub that I could work from if I was to buy a powerful wifi extender...


£4.90/can is not for me.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 21, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Actually they do; it's in their interests to see labour costs pushed down as low as possible to defend their unearned income/wealth accumulation.



True. Equally true for the owners of small independent bars who apparently are lovely to their staff though.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

brogdale said:


> £4.90/can is not for me.



Me neither. 
4 Hopmen in a mini-keg for less than £2.80 a pint is for me, though.

On draught in a pub their beers seem to be about £3.60 to £4 a pint.

I know people who were walking in and buying kegs through lockdown, think the delivery etc. wasn't counted so the deals were really good.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I like Brewdog beers.


you'll never live down this humiliating revelation


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I like Brewdog beers.


Bully for you. Go start a thread saying how awesome they are. This is not the thread for adulation.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2021)

the greatest division on urban isn't between leavers and remainers, it's not between terfs/terf allies and trans/trans allies, it's not even between beans first or cheese first - it is between people who like brewdog and their overhopped piss and those who can't stand them or their beer


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> the greatest division on urban isn't between leavers and remainers, it's not between terfs/terf allies and trans/trans allies, it's not even between beans first or cheese first - it is between people who like brewdog and their overhopped piss and those who can't stand them or their beer



Overhopped and overpineappled.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 21, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> True. Equally true for the owners of small independent bars who apparently are lovely to their staff though.


Brewdog are documented as being particularly vile in a number of ways including disability discrimination.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Breeding are documented as being particularly vile in a number of ways including disability discrimination.



Bit like Brewdog.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 21, 2021)

8ball said:


> Bit like Brewdog.


It's my autocorrect, hasn't been the same since an update a while back.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 21, 2021)

brogdale said:


> £4.90/can is not for me.


Because decent beer comes in a cask, not a can


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Bully for you. Go start a thread saying how awesome they are. This is not the thread for adulation.



Wher's the finger-wagging smilie when you need it, eh?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Because decent beer comes in a cask, not a can



Yeah, I haven't tried their beer in a can tbf.  Prices are silly too.
A nice pint of Papa Jangles is a wonderful thing, though (sadly is not on all the time - they just have variations available right now - hopefully some is brewing as we speak.. um, type).


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Brewdog are documented as being particularly vile in a number of ways including disability discrimination.



Not really, and certainly no more than other comparable outfits. We've done the disability thing on here several times now and you're spinning it in a typically agenda driven way. The blind chap was offered other roles in the company and the tribunal found for him in a split decision, so one of the three disagreed with the ruling. In your eyes this is proof of massive disability discrimination!


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I like Brewdog beers.



_That's not allowed!_


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 21, 2021)

I used to drink Punk IPA a bit but not now they are cheating us on the booze content.  Its a thin end of the wedge issue, next thing we know they may start employing cleaners for their bars.  This is not what Brewdog should be about.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

8ball said:


> These are some fellas local to be who make some of my faves.
> They have a tiny pub that I could work from if I was to buy a powerful wifi extender...



Fucking hell that's some seriously expensive canned beer. Which ones would you recommend?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Fucking hell that's some seriously expensive canned beer. Which ones would you recommend?



4 Hopmen in a mini-keg for less than £2.80 a pint. 

There's one called "Punch In The Face" which is night on a hot day (not on right now - there is also "Slap In The Face" which is similar but less strong.  Often confusing when asking for it at a pub if the staff don't know the beer names).  They do more beers than you can see on the site - depends on what they have been brewing.
Papa Jangles is the nicest stout I know - usually under £4 a pint in a pub.  They have Grand Papa Jangles on right now but it isn't quite as nice, and is also £5.30 a can!


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

8ball said:


> 4 Hopmen in a mini-keg for less than £2.80 a pint.


I saw that but it sounds like it could be over-hopped and sour. Is it?

I can't stand sour/citrussy lager.

They have some interesting guest beers on there too. I'm intrigued by _Unlike Stars_ at 6.8% if only to find out what a 7 quid tin of beer tastes like!


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Because decent beer comes in a cask, not a can


Pretty much agree...with the exception of some fine bottle conditioned ales like my current fave:



500ml of 6.5% ABV for £1.50 (on the corporate retailers' 4 for £6 offer).


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 21, 2021)

This has potential as a morning drink.  A fusion of Vietnamese coffee and Brewdog Ten Ton Truck.  At just over 10% it's certainly fits the bill as a pre-work eye-opener.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> I saw that but it sounds like it could be over-hopped and sour. Is it?
> 
> I can't stand sour/citrussy lager.
> 
> They have some interesting guest beers on there too. I'm intrigued by _Unlike Stars_ at 6.8% if only to find out what a 7 quid tin of beer tastes like!



4 Hopmen is an IPA.  It's very nicely balanced and not aggressively hopped in the way Punk IPA is.
Guardian Of The Forest is also really nice.

Order a mini-keg of each and you get free delivery (I'm not on commission).


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Pretty much agree...with the exception of some fine bottle conditioned ales like my current fave:
> 
> View attachment 293581
> 
> 500ml of 6.5% ABV for £1.50 (on the corporate retailers' 4 for £6 offer).



Can get 4 of those for £7 at the Co op down the road (and do.  a little too frequently  )


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

8ball said:


> Can get 4 of those for £7 at the Co op down the road (and do.  a little too frequently  )


Ale of the gods.


----------



## dessiato (Oct 21, 2021)

It was the original punk IPA that got me hooked. I love the hoppyness and citrus flavours.  Sitting in the hot Andalucían summer a couple of glasses were perfect. It works well with a few tapas.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 21, 2021)

Dogsauce said:


> Washing up liquid contains salt which will corrode steel, so it isn‘t good enough.


From the manufacturer of a washing up liquid - Aqua ! 


Aqua
Sodium Laureth Sulfate
Lauramine Oxide
Alcohol
C9-11 Pareth-n
Sodium Chloride
PEI/PEG/PPG Copolymer
Sodium Hydroxide


----------



## hash tag (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> It was the original punk IPA that got me hooked. I love the hoppyness and citrus flavours.  Sitting in the hot Andalucían summer a couple of glasses were perfect. It works well with a few tapas.
> 
> View attachment 293590


Still trying to promote it


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 21, 2021)

I see Lidl are selling Brewdog beers now. I think I might try a few. Thanks thread.


----------



## editor (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> It was the original punk IPA that got me hooked. I love the hoppyness and citrus flavours.  Sitting in the hot Andalucían summer a couple of glasses were perfect. It works well with a few tapas.
> 
> View attachment 293590


And infused with the sweet essence of the sweat and tears of the workers they bullied, harassed and intimidated. _Deeeelicious!_


----------



## dessiato (Oct 21, 2021)

hash tag said:


> Still trying to promote it


I bought shares because I like the beer.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I bought shares because I like the beer.


Capitalists buy shares to accumulate wealth without earning it through labour.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I bought shares because I like the beer.


This is not financial advice and is not to be recommended. You might be better off sticking a pin in a list of the FTSE 100 companies (or similar).


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Capitalists buy shares to accumulate wealth without earning it through labour.


That's certainly why I buy them.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> That's certainly why I buy them.


Of course; at least you're an honest cunt.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 21, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> That's certainly why I buy them.


I thought people bought them to help out struggling companies. Every day's a school day


----------



## dessiato (Oct 21, 2021)

hash tag said:


> This is not financial advice and is not to be recommended. You might be better off sticking a pin in a list of the FTSE 100 companies (or similar).


I agree. I think there might be some mileage in keeping them for a few years.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> I thought people bought them to help out struggling companies. Every day's a school day



How's GameStop doing these days, by the way?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 21, 2021)

Ffs dessiato are you trolling the thread on purpose or just being stunningly naive?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I bought shares because I like the beer.


You should talk to a doctor about this problem with your sense of taste


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

hash tag said:


> This is not financial advice and is not to be recommended. You might be better off sticking a pin in a list of the FTSE 100 companies (or similar).


It's not an ideal investment strategy but there are plenty of reasons to get into Brewdog (in a small way, imo). The obvious one is the potential for the IPO which may or may not happen. He's not going to lose substantially over 2 or 3 years and he could potentially make a lot. It's a fun stock to do with a few spare quid. No point in sticking it in the bank at the moment.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 21, 2021)

(this is not advice), I have always chosen ethical funds. Someone making ground source pumps or similar might be worth a punt at the moment. That said, and I'm sure Does would go along with this, I've "invested" in a rare modern classic (car). Something to really enjoy and maybe get a return on.


----------



## On Fire (Oct 21, 2021)

Brewdog beer tastes bad, it must be said. That taste issue must be a serious issue in attempts to grow the company.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

hash tag said:


> (this is not advice), I have always chosen ethical funds. Someone making ground source pumps or similar might be worth a punt at the moment. That said, and I'm sure Does would go along with this, I've "invested" in a rare modern classic (car). Something to really enjoy and maybe get a return on.



DeLorean?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

On Fire said:


> Brewdog beer tastes bad, it must be said. That taste issue must be a serious issue in attempts to grow the company.



I've had some nice ones.  Punk IPA is a little obnoxious, granted.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 21, 2021)

8ball said:


> DeLorean?


A " future" classic?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

On Fire said:


> Brewdog beer tastes bad, it must be said. That taste issue must be a serious issue in attempts to grow the company.



Aye. Brewing from a garage in Scotland to a £2bn company, 2 of the country's best selling ale brands, and 80 bars in 9 countries, in 13 years. 

The beer certainly seems to have hamstrung their growth!


----------



## hitmouse (Oct 21, 2021)

teuchter said:


> The ASA can't impose any kind of penalty directly. They can tell them to not do it again and their punishment can be "bad publicity" from the ruling. Of course Brewdog are more than capable of turning that publicity into something that benefits them so I doubt they will be bothered at all about this.


Wait, so there's literally no punishment of any kind for blatant false advertising? Interesting. In other news, does anyone want to invest in my new Equity For Crusties scheme, where you send me £50 every month and in return you get a bottle of Buckfast made from solid gold worth a million pounds?


Pickman's model said:


> the greatest division on urban isn't between leavers and remainers, it's not between terfs/terf allies and trans/trans allies, it's not even between beans first or cheese first - it is between people who like brewdog and their overhopped piss and those who can't stand them or their beer


Has urban's valiant defender of hopeless causes farmerbarleymow ever expressed an opinion on this issue, or does fbm feel that seagulls and wasps are one thing, but brewvermin are a step too far?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 21, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Has urban's valiant defender of hopeless causes farmerbarleymow ever expressed an opinion on this issue, or does fbm feel that seagulls and wasps are one thing, but brewvermin are a step too far?


Seagulls and wasps have redeeming features. Brewdog OTOH...


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 21, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Capitalists buy shares to accumulate wealth without earning it through labour.


I'm self-employed and registered as a private company which I own by mean of shares which were created (magically) when the company was set up, I also pay myself a salary so I am in the somewhat incestuous position of  selling my own labour to myself which I then exploit to pay dividends to myself.
I have some Halifax shares which I acquired when they demutualised since I had a mortgage with them at time, still got them they pay out about £25 per annum
My son is in the company share scheme where he works, whatever you opinions on such things it's way more profitable than saving in the bank most of the deposit for the house he and his girlfriend have just bought came out of that.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> I'm self-employed and registered as a private company which I own by mean of shares which were created (magically) when the company was set up, I also pay myself a salary so I am in the somewhat incestuous position of  selling my own labour to myself which I then exploit to pay dividends to myself.
> I have some Halifax shares which I aquired when they demutualised since I had a mortgage with them at time, still got them they pay out about £25 per annum
> My son is in the company share scheme where he works, whatever you opinions on such things it's way more profitable than saving in the bank most of the deposit for the house he and his girlfriend have just bought came out of that.


It wasn't an opinion.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

brogdale said:


> It wasn't an opinion.



He's referring to your silly moralising rather than the statement quoted, and of course he's right.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> He's referring to your silly moralising rather than the statement quoted, and of course he's right.



I think it's hard to deny that brogdale is right.
MickiQ isn't actually making a counter-argument there.

I have no idea how the magical creation of shares in your own company works. 
It be witchcraft, indeed.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 21, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> He's referring to your silly moralising rather than the statement quoted, and of course he's right.


I thought that capitalists regarded their system as amoral.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 21, 2021)

8ball said:


> I think it's hard to deny that brogdale is right.
> MickiQ isn't actually making a counter-argument there.


Broggers is right about the motivation. I agreed with that earlier. MQ is right about the efficiency v bank savings. By a long way.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Broggers is right about the motivation. I agreed with that earlier. MQ is right about the efficiency v bank savings. By a long way.



Oh yeah, can't argue on that count (well, I could, but I'd have to be a lot better at arguing than I really am to get anywhere with it).


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

brogdale said:


> I thought that capitalists regarded their system as amoral.



I think many regard it as highly moral.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 21, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Broggers is right about the motivation. I agreed with that earlier. MQ is right about the efficiency v bank savings. By a long way.


So, everyone's agreed about everything, there's not actually anything wrong with brewdog and the thread can be closed.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 21, 2021)

Consensus after 100 pages.  That's not common on Urban.


----------



## hash tag (Oct 21, 2021)




----------



## Teaboy (Oct 22, 2021)

teuchter said:


> So, everyone's agreed about everything, there's not actually anything wrong with brewdog and the thread can be closed.



I don't think we've addressed the elephant in the room which is the reduction in ABV of Punk IPA.  Try as you might to sweep that under the carpet.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 22, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> I don't think we've addressed the elephant in the room which is the reduction in ABV of Punk IPA.  Try as you might to sweep that under the carpet.


A form of shrinkflation to maintain dividends to shareholders; cunts.


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 22, 2021)

So much beer so little time, I drank brewdog once or twice, that was enough, unimpressive.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 22, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> I don't think we've addressed the elephant in the room which is the reduction in ABV of Punk IPA.  Try as you might to sweep that under the carpet.


What has it been reduced from/to?


----------



## MickiQ (Oct 22, 2021)

What are we discussing now? Whether Brewdog are a shit employer or that their beer is vile, Can't really offer an opinion on either of those since I have never worked for them and I drink cider not beer. Those people I know that have tried their beers and have offered opinions have been almost entirely positive though.
As for Share ownership are we considering a position that it is immoral in some way? If so then I suspect that is an argument that has been long lost. Excluding Pensions Funds (which to a certain extent makes almost all of us shareholders) I would imagine that there are at least as many people as own shares that don't.  I know loads of people from all walks of life that dabble a bit in buying and selling shares. We've got Maggie T to thank for that. 
They're not really rapacious capitalists but ordinary folks with a 9 to 5 (often 24/7) job. Evil American Megacorp had a sharesave scheme but since they were American it always seemed potentially far more trouble that it could ever be worth.
Son Q's employer is British though and their Sharesave scheme works by them paying an amount (which I think is tax free) into it every month and after three years it gets converted into shares but at the price they were when the scheme started.
He's cashed in a load of them from the first few years and he has got back better than double the amount of money he put in, pretty much 80-90% of the deposit he has put on the house.
This seems like a great idea to me, the company has basically given him free money, indeed it has given him back at least a share of the profit from his labour. Even better from my point of view the Bank of Dad has not had to loan Son Q and Pollyanna anywhere like the amount I had to lend Middle Q  and Paddy.
As for the shares in my own company their creation was indeed pretty much magical. The company was registered and 10 shares each with a notional value of £1 sprang into existence. No's 1-5 were given to me and No's 6-10 were given to Mrs Q (got certificates even). All dividends were then split 10 ways and paid out to the shareholders. After Mrs Q got promoted at school and became a higher rate taxpayer, the company bought back shares 6 and 7 from Mrs Q for their notional value and sold them to me for the same. Quite bizarre when you think about. The company paid £2 into Mrs Q's account and then I paid £2 into it. I wanted to deduct it from my next paycheck but apparently that's classed as tax fiddling.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 22, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> What has it been reduced from/to?


5.6% down to 5.2%.

Its a race to the bottom and any right minded tramp fuel aficionado should be very perturbed.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 22, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> What are we discussing now?


We're discussing whether the initial premise of this thread was flawed and whether Brewdog are innocent of all the accusations made against them.

As far as I can see, in the last couple of pages everyone's agreed that's the case (which is a bit surprising to me), which is great news and it's nice to end the week on such a positive note.

I haven't read all the bits of your post where it looks like you're trying to defend you and your family's position as exploitative agents of ruthless capitalism who (unlike Brewdog) are morally reprehensible, because it's not really relevant.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 22, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> I don't think we've addressed the elephant in the room which is the reduction in ABV of Punk IPA.  Try as you might to sweep that under the carpet.


That's great that they are gradually making their drinks more healthy.


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2021)

LOL at the 'equity punks' 





__





						Subscribe to read | Financial Times
					

News, analysis and comment from the Financial Times, the worldʼs leading global business publication




					www.ft.com
				












						Simon English: Brewdog is a barking way for investors to make money
					

Here’s Brewdog co-founder James Watt a while back talking about how much money the company has raised from customers under its “Equity for Punks” scheme.




					www.standard.co.uk
				






> In June, a group of former employees of the Scottish craft brewer BrewDog published an open letter accusing the firm of behaving less like a “punk” craft outfit and more like the rapacious multinational macrobrewers it set out to counter. “Growth, at all costs, has always been perceived as the number one focus for the company, and the fuel you have used to achieve it is controversy,” read the letter, which has since been signed by over 300 former workers from the rapidly expanding craft brewer. Calling themselves “Punks with a Purpose,” the authors detailed a “rotten” company culture dominated by fear, greed, and exploitation. “In a post-truth world, you have allowed the ends to justify the means, time and time again,” they said.











						Equity for Chumps: BrewDog’s Crowdfunding Model a Dubious Deal for American Investors
					

BrewDog's investment offer to American fans is long on risk, short on reward, and overpriced to boot. Here’s a closer look at our findings.




					vinepair.com


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 22, 2021)

Watts' property/real estate transactions seems somewhat murky...


----------



## NoXion (Oct 22, 2021)

teuchter said:


> That's great that they are gradually making their drinks more healthy.



Booze is not _supposed_ to be healthy. It's an indulgence, not sustenance.


----------



## Teaboy (Oct 22, 2021)

teuchter said:


> That's great that they are gradually making their drinks more healthy.



Is it now one of my 5 a day?


----------



## teuchter (Oct 22, 2021)

NoXion said:


> Booze is not _supposed_ to be healthy. It's an indulgence, not sustenance.


So you are now advocating for indulgences to be as unhealthy as possible (because you want anyone who has fun to die as soon as possible). Unlike Brewdog.

It seems that Brewdog are less morally reprehensible than a lot of posters on this thread.


----------



## NoXion (Oct 22, 2021)

teuchter said:


> So you are now advocating for indulgences to be as unhealthy as possible (because you want anyone who has fun to die as soon as possible). Unlike Brewdog.



No. Not healthy =/= as unhealthy as possible. When someone asks for sugar in their drink, they mean to suit their taste, not "as much sugar as the liquid can possibly dissolve".



teuchter said:


> It seems that Brewdog are less morally reprehensible than a lot of posters on this thread.



It only seems that way because you're a strawmanning dipshit.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 22, 2021)

More or less what I was saying yesterday about the Brewdog IPO by someone who also seems to know what he's talking about. It's all about the _marketing._

As BrewDog delays its IPO, should it consider abandoning flotation altogether?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 22, 2021)

teuchter said:


> So you are now advocating for indulgences to be as unhealthy as possible (because you want anyone who has fun to die as soon as possible). Unlike Brewdog.
> 
> It seems that Brewdog are less morally reprehensible than a lot of posters on this thread.


Oh come on, you're being ridiculous. Nobody on this thread is saying they want anyone who has fun to die as soon as possible. That's just hysterical overreaction.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Oct 22, 2021)

I wouldn't have thought a day glow flashing hook that sounds an air raid siren as soon as anything gets near it would get any bites, but here we are.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 22, 2021)

teuchter said:


> So you are now advocating for indulgences to be as unhealthy as possible (because you want anyone who has fun to die as soon as possible). Unlike Brewdog.
> 
> It seems that Brewdog are less morally reprehensible than a lot of posters on this thread.


Did the capitalists lower the price of this "healthier" product that requires less fermentable material input?

If not, it looks as though their motivation was their own bottom line rather than any public health gain.

Or, put another way...you're spouting bollocks.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 22, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I wouldn't have thought a day glow flashing hook that sounds an air raid siren as soon as anything gets near it would get any bites, but here we are.


I object to being categorised as 'more morally reprehensible than Brewdog'.


----------



## Cerv (Oct 22, 2021)

brogdale said:


> A form of shrinkflation to maintain dividends to shareholders; cunts.


that's unfair. Brewdog have never in their history paid a single dividend to their mugs shareholders.









						WHY DON'T YOU PAY DIVIDENDS?
					

At the moment we have no plans to pay dividends. As a high growth company our strategy is to reinvest all profits into the business to fuel further growth and take advantage of all the business opportunities we can.      The type of growth we h...




					support.brewdog.com


----------



## dessiato (Oct 22, 2021)

Cerv said:


> that's unfair. Brewdog have never in their history paid a single dividend to their mugs shareholders.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I'm less bothered about the dividends than I am about the discounts I get. They're more valuable to me, at the moment.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 22, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I'm less bothered about the dividends than I am about the discounts I get. They're more valuable to me, at the moment.


As I said before, go wax lyrical about Brewdog on a thread devoted to them. Or are you doing it to be deliberately irritating?


----------



## 8ball (Oct 22, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> As I said before, go wax lyrical about Brewdog on a thread devoted to them. Or are you doing it to be deliberately irritating?



Yeah, dessiato - go find a thread with Brewdog in the title or something, you little derailing shit!


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 22, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Or are you doing it to be deliberately irritating?



Hmmmmmm. There's a thought.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 22, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> As I said before, go wax lyrical about Brewdog on a thread devoted to them.


----------



## hitmouse (Oct 22, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Nobody on this thread is saying they want anyone who has fun to die as soon as possible.


I was saying I want anyone who has fun to die as soon as possible.[/Hans Moleman voice]


----------



## dessiato (Oct 22, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> As I said before, go wax lyrical about Brewdog on a thread devoted to them. Or are you doing it to be deliberately irritating?





8ball said:


> Yeah, dessiato - go find a thread with Brewdog in the title or something, you little derailing shit!



I’m sorry. I thought this thread _was _about Brewdog. After all the first word in the title is “BrewDog” (sic)


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 22, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I’m sorry. I thought this thread _was _about Brewdog. After all the first word in the title is “BrewDog” (sic)


The very first post on the thread makes it clear this is not a thread going 'brewdog are fucking great'.


----------



## dessiato (Oct 22, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> The very first post on the thread makes it clear this is not a thread going 'brewdog are fucking great'.


There’s been 100 pages since then. Things, and discussions, change and develop.


----------



## editor (Oct 22, 2021)

dessiato said:


> There’s been 100 pages since then. Things, and discussions, change and develop.


What's your thoughts about supporting a company with a particularly awful record of bullying and abusing their employees?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 22, 2021)

dessiato said:


> There’s been 100 pages since then. Things, and discussions, change and develop.


Yes, each time the discussion has moved on to show that Brewdog are worse than we thought.

They're sexist money-grubbing disablist arseholes with dodgy employment practices who think nothing of lying to consumers. But hey, that's all ok if you get discounts and perks, right?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 22, 2021)

Steady on now


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 22, 2021)

Are they not those things Spymaster?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 22, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> Are they not those things Spymaster?


Which things, equationgirl ?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 22, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Which things, equationgirl ?


The things I wrote in my post above yours that you seem to be objecting are somewhat strong, with your 'steady on now'.


----------



## nastyned (Oct 22, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> 5.6% down to 5.2%.
> 
> Its a race to the bottom and any right minded tramp fuel aficionado should be very perturbed.



It was originally 6% ABV.


----------



## nastyned (Oct 22, 2021)

Brewdog seem to have re-styled toxic workplace culture as "high performance culture":

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Following on from our take on <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Collabfest2021?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#Collabfest2021</a> etc yesterday, we&#39;d like to make some brief points on the Telegraph&#39;s recent interview with James. We won&#39;t go into detail - perhaps we&#39;ll save that for another day - but we didn&#39;t want to let it slide.<br><br>1/5 <a href="https://t.co/F5yW9z7WGg">pic.twitter.com/F5yW9z7WGg</a></p>&mdash; Punks With Purpose (@PunksWPurpose) <a href="">October 21, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> The things I wrote in my post above yours that you seem to be objecting are somewhat strong, with your 'steady on now'.


Well it's wrong, isn't it?

At best, you're conflating issues that are prevelant within all corporate structures that are certainly no worse at Brewdog, which makes you naive (this is my estmiation of your contributions, btw). At worst you're doing the same but with an agenda driven by "other" ignorant people on this thread out of blind and idiotic loyalty, because ... _punk! _


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2021)

nastyned said:


> Brewdog seem to have re-styled toxic workplace culture as "high performance culture":
> 
> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Following on from our take on <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Collabfest2021?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc^tfw">#Collabfest2021</a> etc yesterday, we&#39;d like to make some brief points on the Telegraph&#39;s recent interview with James. We won&#39;t go into detail - perhaps we&#39;ll save that for another day - but we didn&#39;t want to let it slide.<br><br>1/5 <a href="https://t.co/F5yW9z7WGg">pic.twitter.com/F5yW9z7WGg</a></p>&mdash; Punks With Purpose (@PunksWPurpose) <a href="">October 21, 2021</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



The rich cunt is blaming the workers


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Well it's wrong, isn't it?
> 
> At best, you're conflating issues that are prevelant within all corporate structures that are certainly no worse at Brewdog, which makes you naive (this is my estmiation of your contributions, btw). At worst you're doing the same but with an agenda driven by "other" ignorant people on this thread out of blind and idiotic loyalty, because ... _punk! _


QED above

You’re aligning with this, thick as mince stuff? 🤔


----------



## Humberto (Oct 23, 2021)

Think Punk is best for giving privileged ruling class the shits. It not my thing, but it clearly is good for that.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Well it's wrong, isn't it?
> 
> At best, you're conflating issues that are prevelant within all corporate structures that are certainly no worse at Brewdog, which makes you naive (this is my estmiation of your contributions, btw). At worst you're doing the same but with an agenda driven by "other" ignorant people on this thread out of blind and idiotic loyalty, because ... _punk! _


And you're being deliberately obtuse and mansplaining because a woman couldn't possibly have her own opinions on whether a company is guilty of, amongst other things, disability discrimination. I follow no-one's agenda, and certainly not out of blind loyalty.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 23, 2021)

And it's quite clear that James Watt is blaming his former staff, claiming Brewdog is a high performance culture equates to 'they couldn't hack it and now they're whinging about it'.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> And you're being deliberately obtuse and mansplaining because a woman couldn't possibly have her own opinions on whether a company is guilty of, amongst other things, disability discrimination. I follow no-one's agenda, and certainly not out of blind loyalty.


Eh?

What does your being a woman have to do with this?

You're as wrong as the men on here!


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 23, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> They're sexist money-grubbing disablist arseholes with dodgy employment practices who think nothing of lying to consumers. But hey, that's all ok if you get discounts and perks, right?


I was quite happy to reject them for their over inflated pricing and tinny taste until offspring pointed out all these other problems too


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 23, 2021)

high performance culture is just management speak for low standards, rights and conditions in the workplace


----------



## NoXion (Oct 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Well it's wrong, isn't it?
> 
> At best, you're conflating issues that are prevelant within all corporate structures that are certainly no worse at Brewdog, which makes you naive (this is my estmiation of your contributions, btw). At worst you're doing the same but with an agenda driven by "other" ignorant people on this thread out of blind and idiotic loyalty, because ... _punk! _



The fact that the best defence you can mount for Brewdog is that they're equally as bad as the rest is extremely telling. It's bollocks of course, sexism and ableism may be problems across the board, but they're not problematic to the same extent in every company. Frankly this behaviour of yours is extremely shitty, making smirking, fallacious defences of company you know has problems, with the only readily apparent motivation for it being to "trigger the libs". Hohoho, very funny, not.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Eh?
> 
> What does your being a woman have to do with this?
> 
> You're as wrong as the men on here!


Poster(s) criticise business; you respond with whataboutery (...”issues that are prevelant within all corporate structures...”) then bizarrely claim posters are “wrong” to criticise business.

Logic not your forte? 😂


----------



## NoXion (Oct 23, 2021)

I also love the idea that one's arguments are invalid for having an agenda behind them, as if it's somehow inherently wrong to have motivations for one's reasoning, no matter what those motivations actually are or how sound the reasoning actually is. How dare you have a purpose for making the arguments that you do?!


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2021)

NoXion said:


> I also love the idea that one's arguments are invalid for having an agenda behind them, as if it's somehow inherently wrong to have motivations for one's reasoning, no matter what those motivations actually are or how sound the reasoning actually is. How dare you have a purpose for making the arguments that you do?!


Indeed; and the irony!


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

NoXion said:


> I also love the idea that one's arguments are invalid for having an agenda behind them, as if it's somehow inherently wrong to have motivations for one's reasoning, no matter what those motivations actually are or how sound the reasoning actually is. How dare you have a purpose for making the arguments that you do?!


QED.

See equationgirl ?

Wrt, Broggers too.

Sex has nothing to do with it. The lads are just as silly as you!


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2021)

You're just embarrassing yourself.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)




----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

.


----------



## 8ball (Oct 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> .



Good counterpoint.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

8ball said:


> Good counterpoint.


Almost spotless.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

brogdale said:


> You're just embarrassing yourself.


Check out who's "liked" your post.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Check out who's "liked" your post.


I liked it. You ARE embarassing yourself.

Time after time you shitstir. You like being 'controversial'. You try to annoy the same posters again and again. You don't actually present any arguments of your own, you just criticise others.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> I liked it. You ARE embarassing yourself.
> 
> Time after time you shitstir. You like being 'controversial'. You try to annoy the same posters again and again. You don't actually present any arguments of your own, you just criticise others.



Well I've presented several arguments to you but you don't engasge. It's almost as if you know I'm right so you ignore the posts. 🤷‍♂️

That's ok though.

Are you watching the cricket?


----------



## editor (Oct 23, 2021)

So they've told the original winner of the '£15,000' brass can with a bit of gold plate that he can go fuck himself. 



> At the time of the original complaint, the drinks firm insisted that the £15,000 valuation was “based on multiple factors” and not only the price of the gold used.
> 
> They claimed it included the price they paid for its manufacture, the metal used, the retail markup, and the "rarity and uniqueness of the cans”.
> 
> ...











						BrewDog responds to watchdog 'gold-plated' can ruling with new £25k can promo
					

The Scots brewer's claim that the original '24 carat gold' cans were worth £15,000 has been disputed by Advertising Standards after it was revealed they were actually 'gold plated' cans.




					www.dailyrecord.co.uk


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Well I've presented several arguments to you but you don't engasge. It's almost as if you know I'm right so you ignore the posts. 🤷‍♂️
> 
> That's ok though.
> 
> Are you watching the cricket?


Before you use this tactic, we can all see the previous two pages where you sidestep the debate and engage in "whatabouttery" 

You can be a fan of BrewDog and admit they've ballsed up, you know.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 23, 2021)

PR1Berske said:


> You can be a fan of BrewDog and admit they've ballsed up, you know.


Conversely, you can be opposed to Brewdog and admit they know what they're doing, as they do seem to be rather good at this.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 23, 2021)

editor said:


> So they've told the original winner of the '£15,000' brass can with a bit of gold plate that he can go fuck himself.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Why am I not surprised?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Conversely, you can be opposed to Brewdog and admit they know what they're doing, as they do seem to be rather good at this.


Has anyone suggested they're not consciously being cunts?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Check out who's "liked" your post.


Not you, apparently.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Has anyone suggested they're not consciously being cunts?


Let's face it though, Broggers, your idea of _business cunts_ is pretty niche. Outside of a few weirdos on this here website, it's significant only by its unimportance.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Not you, apparently.


Of course not.

It's a triumverate of ignorance and stupidity.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> I liked it. You ARE embarassing yourself.
> 
> Time after time you shitstir. You like being 'controversial'. You try to annoy the same posters again and again. You don't actually present any arguments of your own, you just criticise others.


You say that like it's a bad thing


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 23, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> You say that like it's a bad thing


In a supposedly grown man, yes it is.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Of course not.
> 
> It's a triumverate of ignorance and stupidity.


Triumvirate

But tri means three. So it'd be a duumvirate or similar


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

Pickman's model said:


> Triumvirate
> 
> But tri means three. So it'd be a duumvirate or similar


You know what? I was just about to google that, so cheers!

That said, there ARE three wombatomba le bazania comba casie woosha toosha comatam. Ping!

Count them.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Of course not.
> 
> It's a triumverate of ignorance and stupidity.


Really?

Must admit that I'm ignorant of that non-trad spelling of the word triumvirate.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Let's face it though, Broggers, your idea of _business cunts_ is pretty niche. Outside of a few weirdos on this here website, it's significant only by its unimportance.




We're talking on this here website, though.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

brogdale said:


> We're talking on this here website, though.



Absolutely. You're one of my favourire posters, too.

 On Rugby


----------



## 8ball (Oct 23, 2021)

Let’s face it, just about everyone has at least one topic of discussion where they go a bit potty.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 23, 2021)

Broggers knows his rugby, tbf.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 28, 2021)

OK...deep breath...I have a confession; I'm drinking some BD right now. 

Unbeknownst to me Mrs B put a (heavily reduced) box of 12 cans of "Lost Lager" into the delivery the other day. It was nice of her to think of me & all that...but by christ, what utter fucking piss water.

Sweet, sickly and weak; what's to like?



Apologies to anyone (justifiably) offended by this post.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 28, 2021)

brogdale said:


> OK...deep breath...I have a confession; I'm drinking some BD right now.
> 
> Unbeknownst to me Mrs B put a (heavily reduced) box of 12 cans of "Lost Lager" into the delivery the other day.


Yeah, yeah that's what happened, honest!


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 28, 2021)

MickiQ said:


> I know loads of people from all walks of life that dabble a bit in buying and selling shares.


The stats I have seen, going up to mid-2021 suggest that between 21% and 33% of people in the UK own or have owned stocks/shares. I can't vouch for their veracity but they came from companies selling financial products or investment opportunities.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 28, 2021)

Their PR people are obviously brilliant if they're convincing brogdale to buy their beer.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 28, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Yeah, yeah that's what happened, honest!


"...And then somehow I slipped as I removed my underpants..."


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 28, 2021)

I wonder if it's a coincidence that brogdale is an abbreviation of BrewDog ale


----------



## Flavour (Oct 28, 2021)

This thread really backs up the idea that as people get older they get more right wing. Fucking state of urban discussing pension plan investment options and dividends on a thread about a shitty company


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 28, 2021)

brogdale said:


> OK...deep breath...I have a confession; I'm drinking some BD right now.
> 
> Unbeknownst to me Mrs B put a (heavily reduced) box of 12 cans of "Lost Lager" into the delivery the other day. It was nice of her to think of me & all that...but by christ, what utter fucking piss water.
> 
> ...



4.7 is not _particularly _weak.

What do you normally drink?


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 28, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> 4.7 is not _particularly _weak.
> 
> What do you normally drink?


Elvis Juice.


----------



## dessiato (Oct 28, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Elvis Juice.


That's so good.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 28, 2021)

dessiato said:


> That's so good.


Shut up, shill  🤣


----------



## dessiato (Oct 28, 2021)

Saul Goodman said:


> Shut up, shill  🤣


I've never had a Brewdog beer I didn't like. People need to try it and buy more


----------



## alex_ (Oct 28, 2021)

DaveCinzano said:


> The stats I have seen, going up to mid-2021 suggest that between 21% and 33% of people in the UK own or have owned stocks/shares. I can't vouch for their veracity but they came from companies selling financial products or investment opportunities.



You'll never guess what your pension consists of


----------



## Elpenor (Oct 28, 2021)

My friend had a can of tactical nuclear penguin which is 32% last Christmas and apparently woke up several hours later with no knowledge of what happened


----------



## brogdale (Oct 28, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> 4.7 is not _particularly _weak.
> 
> What do you normally drink?


1698 @ 6.5


----------



## brogdale (Oct 28, 2021)

That couple of pages has proper made me laugh...and cheered me up about the remaining 11 cans.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Oct 28, 2021)

alex_ said:


> You'll never guess what your pension consists of


Sorry, I don't respond to intemperate sneering from posters I've never heard of with fewer than 400 points under their belt 🤷‍♂️


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 28, 2021)

Flavour said:


> This thread really backs up the idea that as people get older they get more right wing. Fucking state of urban discussing pension plan investment options and dividends on a thread about a shitty company


It's not right wing to have a pension.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 28, 2021)

dessiato said:


> I've never had a Brewdog beer I didn't like. People need to try it and buy more


No, they really don't.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 28, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> No, they really don't.


Agreed. 

I've never had a BD beer that I _did_ like, and have given up trying.


----------



## Saul Goodman (Oct 28, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Agreed.
> 
> I've never had a BD beer that I _did_ like, and have given up trying.


I've tried a few now (thanks to this thread) and they were all crap.


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 2, 2021)

Possibly relevant:








						Brewery Workers Union Launch - Industrial Workers of the World (IWW)
					

We are proud to announce the formation of the Brewery Workers Union! After years of organising in breweries we thought it was finally time to make it official.      What is it?  Bringing together current and ex-brewery workers to…




					iww.org.uk


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 2, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Possibly relevant:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nah, that's actual politics. This is a twats/not twats thread.


----------



## DaphneM (Nov 28, 2021)

Just discovered Hazy Jane & love it. Had a French beer called Chou last year and it reminds me of that - Really citrussy & refreshing


----------



## brogdale (Nov 28, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> Just discovered Hazy Jane & love it. Had a French beer called Chou last year and it reminds me of that - Really citrussy & refreshing


If you like that sort of thing, this is a really rather good version:


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 29, 2021)

brogdale said:


> 1698 @ 6.5


Also, Bishop's Finger when you're more in thr mood for soft drinks?


----------



## 8ball (Nov 29, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> It's not right wing to have a pension.



Post reported.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 29, 2021)

8ball said:


> Post reported.


My very first report


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2021)

The Punk IPA is the go to choice (£3.20) if the Shipyard is off (£2.59) and none of the guest ales are in any way appealing in my local 'spoons. 
I have a pension and buy stuff from Amazon.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

William of Walworth said:


> Also, Bishop's Finger when you're more in thr mood for soft drinks?


"for my (physical) health" Mrs B is strongly suggesting that I alternate between the 1698s & the Nun's. Recently I've ordered some Abbot Reserves to boost the Nun's shelf and she hasn't yet read the label to see that they're 6.5 as well!


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

DaphneM said:


> Just discovered Hazy Jane & love it. Had a French beer called Chou last year and it reminds me of that - Really citrussy & refreshing



I've never understood why anyone would actually_ want_ their beer to taste citrussy. 

It's modern guffery promoted by "craft" breweries, probably part of a countrywide conspiracy to inflate the price of hops. 

Beer should taste like BEER!


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> I've never understood why anyone would actually_ want_ their beer to taste citrussy.
> 
> It's modern guffery promoted by "craft" breweries, probably part of a countrywide conspiracy to inflate the price of hops.
> 
> Beer should taste like BEER!


Thought you were a freedom loving fan of capitalism?


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Thought you were a freedom loving fan of capitalism?



Only until it starts to fuck with my beer


----------



## Chilli.s (Nov 29, 2021)

Those fruit flavour beers have been around for ages, and horrible all the time.  People in our local used to go on about the Belgian Trappist beers brewed by monks, berry flavour, fucking rank.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

Chilli.s said:


> Those fruit flavour beers have been around for ages, and horrible all the time.  People in our local used to go on about the Belgian Trappist beers brewed by monks, berry flavour, fucking rank.



When folk go on about "citrussy" though, they don't mean the beer is fruit flavoured. They mean it's been hopped to fuck which has made it sour.


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2021)

Bet Brewdog drinkers include a disproportionate amount of blokes in short trousers.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 29, 2021)

JimW said:


> Bet Brewdog drinkers include a disproportionate amount of blokes in short trousers.



It's just bog standard beers they sell in Tesco. Only Brewdog's marketing department and a few people on here think there's anything particularly trendy about them.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It's just bog standard beers they sell in Tesco. Only Brewdog's marketing department and a few people on here think there's anything particularly trendy about them.



This post shows a lack of understanding of what marketing actually is.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> This post shows a lack of understanding of what marketing actually is.



Fair, I did think of pointing out the marketing people don't really believe it but I decided to leave it.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Only until it starts to fuck with my beer


No faith in capitalism to supply the beer that you demand?


----------



## Chilli.s (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> They mean it's been hopped to fuck which has made it sour.


Yeah that too... wronguns


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2021)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It's just bog standard beers they sell in Tesco. Only Brewdog's marketing department and a few people on here think there's anything particularly trendy about them.


Not really bothered, just trying to poke Spymaster. He's not biting


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

JimW said:


> Not really bothered, just trying to poke Spymaster. He's not biting



 You're mis-poking! I don't drink their beer. Horrible stuff. I just admire their business model and marketing success.


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> You're mis-poking! I don't drink their beer. Horrible stuff. I just admire their business model and marketing success.


It's one of the few British beers widely available here. I'd rather drink Greene King, which says a lot.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 29, 2021)

I think it's very unbritish to drink Brewdog.

Heineken, Stella and Carlsberg have been the traditional staple of proper Brits for generations and these upstarts should be shunned for trying to change our British traditions.


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 29, 2021)

I dunno about the staple of generations. When I first started going in pubs (sometime in the last century), it was all bitter or mild. Lager was just an occasional novelty as in:

Me: "Y'know, I think I'll be a bit continental today and try a *Grunhalle."
Everyone else in the vault: "Oooooooooh, look at you, you cultured get."

*For those not of a certain age, this was Greenhall's lager but Grunhalle sounded more Germanic. It was rank.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

Gromit said:


> Heineken, Stella and Carlsberg have been the traditional staple of proper Brits for generations ...



Nonsense. Euro-fizzpiss for people who don't know what proper beer is.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 29, 2021)

JimW said:


> Bet Brewdog drinkers include a disproportionate amount of blokes in short trousers.



On vegan unicycles


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> I dunno about the staple of generations. When I first started going in pubs (sometime in the last century), it was all bitter or mild. Lager was just an occasional novelty as in:
> 
> Me: "Y'know, I think I'll be a bit continental today and try a *Grunhalle."
> Everyone else in the vault: "Oooooooooh, look at you, you cultured get."
> ...


Absolutely; when i were a lad...it was just mild and bitter on tap (with bottles behind the bar) and, starting out as a young beer drinker, I really liked the nutty old Mild that was favoured by the old fellas. My old Dad and his drinking pals all used to drink 'AB', as they called it (Ale & Bitter) or half and half as it was known in some parts...and even as 'Mother-in-law'* by some (back then in the 70s).

Like you say, lager was something of a novelty when it came on tap, and I was lucky enough to live in the land of Hürlimann which, at 4.8% to the bitter's 3.8%, meant that if we were flush we sometimes went on 'exotic' benders just to get wasted. And don't even talk to me about Hürlimann snakebites with that wicked Biddenden cider stuff! 

* Old and bitter.


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> You're mis-poking! I don't drink their beer. Horrible stuff. I just admire their business model and marketing success.


What do you reckon to the business model and marketing success of the short trouser industry? Brilliantly cutting costs by getting people to buy smaller trousers thus saving on materials, you have to admire it.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> I dunno about the staple of generations. When I first started going in pubs (sometime in the last century), it was all bitter or mild. Lager was just an occasional novelty as in:
> 
> Me: "Y'know, I think I'll be a bit continental today and try a *Grunhalle."
> Everyone else in the vault: "Oooooooooh, look at you, you cultured get."
> ...





brogdale said:


> Absolutely; when i were a lad...it was just mild and bitter on tap (with bottles behind the bar) and, starting out as a young beer drinker, I really liked the nutty old Mild that was favoured by the old fellas. My old Dad and his drinking pals all used to drink 'AB', as they called it (Ale & Bitter) or half and half as it was known in some parts...and even as 'Mother-in-law'* by some (back then in the 70s).
> 
> Like you say, lager was something of a novelty when it came on tap, and I was lucky enough to live in the land of Hürlimann which, at 4.8% to the bitter's 3.8%, meant that if we were flush we sometimes went on 'exotic' benders just to get wasted. And don't even talk to me about Hürlimann snakebites with that wicked Biddenden cider stuff!
> 
> * Old and bitter.



 How old are you two?

Draught lager has been around since the 60s. In the 70s it became quite common (Skol, Carling, Harp).


----------



## [62] (Nov 29, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> For those not of a certain age, this was Greenhall's lager but Grunhalle sounded more Germanic. It was rank.



See also Hofmeister. Never mind that it tastes like piss - look at that bear in the sunglasses and satin jacket. He's cool and you will be too if you drink this crap.

The Brits have always been discerning drinkers of beer...


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> What do you reckon to the business model and marketing success of the short trouser industry? Brilliantly cutting costs by getting people to buy smaller trousers thus saving on materials, you have to admire it.



An admirable aim but fortunately hampered by poor maketing, ensuring that the product has remained niche and only popular with bell-ends.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Nonsense. Euro-fizzpiss for people who don't know what proper beer is.



What's your tipple again?


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

[62] said:


> See also Hofmeister. Never mind that I tastes like piss - look at that bear in the sunglasses and satin jacket. He's cool and you will be too if you drink this crap.
> 
> The Brits have always been discerning drinkers of beer...



I think the brewers of Hoffmeister should be congratulated along with those of Fosters.

It must have taken serious dedication to produce beers that taste of absolutely nothing.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> How old are you two?
> 
> Draught lager has been around since the 60s. In the 70s it became quite common (Skol, Carling, Harp).


I'm talking about the 1970s you cheeky fecker!
It's not just an age thing but also whereabouts you were, how trad the boozers were and which tied houses you frequented.


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2021)

In my barkeep days, I used to have old fellas who'd get a half of bitter in a pint glass and pour in a bottle of White Shield, which was pretty good when I tried it bt I've forgotten what it was called, anyone remember? Probably something simple like half and half.
Just missed it being all bitter and mild, which is a shame as they're my favourites. Mild especially got hard to find in the southwest.


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 29, 2021)

JimW said:


> In my barkeep days, I used to have old fellas who'd get a half of bitter in a pint glass and pour in a bottle of White Shield


Is that a cleaning product?


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

JimW said:


> In my barkeep days, I used to have old fellas who'd get a half of bitter in a pint glass and pour in a bottle of White Shield, which was pretty good when I tried it bt I've forgotten what it was called, anyone remember? Probably something simple like half and half.
> Just missed it being all bitter and mild, which is a shame as they're my favourites. Mild especially got hard to find in the southwest.


Many bottle/half combos just got called the generic _light & bitter, _but i'm not sure about anything specific relating to the magnificent old White Shield.


----------



## Gromit (Nov 29, 2021)

[62] said:


> See also Hofmeister. Never mind that I tastes like piss - look at that bear in the sunglasses and satin jacket. He's cool and you will be too if you drink this crap.
> 
> The Brits have always been discerning drinkers of beer...


That bear was bloody cool tho. 

Follow the bear.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Is that a cleaning product?


Used to be only bottled-conditioned ale around, back when.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

btw, I'm loving that this thread about charlatans & their dreary shite 'beer' has been re-purposed into a much more entertaining thread about the wonders of ale in the generality!


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Is that a cleaning product?


In the spiritual sense, yes. Actual strong IPA before it was a thing (again).


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2021)

Bitter is rank. Old man's beer. I only drink pales or stout. Anything brown looking is to be avoided.


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Bitter is rank. Old man's beer. I only drink pales or stout. Anything brown looking is to be avoided.


Ooh you big wrong'un.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2021)

JimW said:


> Ooh you big wrong'un.


I can't help having superior tastes.


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2021)

I hanker for weak session bitters out here in foreign parts  Though it is true I am an old man.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Bitter is rank. Old man's beer. I only drink pales or stout. Anything brown looking is to be avoided.


So many levels of wrong.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

JimW said:


> I hanker for weak session bitters out here in foreign parts  Though it is true I am an old man.


That was the beauty of cask Mild back in the day; at around 3.2% & bags of flavour you could steam away all night on it!


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2021)

brogdale said:


> That was the beauty of cask Mild back in the day; at around 3.2% & bags of flavour you could steam away all night on it!


Yes, also closely associated with my brothers coming home and us spending a long day in the pub getting only pleasantly wrecked.


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 29, 2021)

I reckon bitter's alright if you're unfortunate enough to be drinking somewhere where they don't have a proper drink like Somersby on tap.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

JimW said:


> Yes, also closely associated with my brothers coming home and us spending a long day in the pub getting only pleasantly wrecked.


Yep, all of that...and, of course, back then we all had that amazing capacity that the young have to just keep on drinking...


----------



## Part 2 (Nov 29, 2021)

I remember drinking 'mixed' for a short period when I was trying to find out what beer I liked....half bitter half mild. Never liked lager until I the last few years when I discovered it's the best park drink.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> I reckon bitter's alright if you're unfortunate enough to be drinking somewhere where they don't have a proper drink like Somersby on tap.


Away with your yokel fuel.


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> How old are you two?
> 
> Draught lager has been around since the 60s. In the 70s it became quite common (Skol, Carling, Harp).


Probably not as old as you, fella. Sure, we had lager round our way in the 70s, but it tended to be... ahem... a "lasses drink"   (e.g. lager and black) or for lads who wanted to show off and appear cultured. Bitter was the staple though, and sometimes mild. To be honest though, most 70s pub beer was rubbish (apart from Joseph Holts - which was also the cheapest too) compared to some of the ales available now. I think the big advertising campaigns of the late 70s/early 80s managed to shove bitter off its north England pedestal, and the rest is history... with some of the more bobbins pubs now just stocking a number of variations of yer ice cold yellow piss


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 29, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> Probably not as old as you, fella. Sure, we had lager round our way in the 70s, but it tended to be... ahem... a "lasses drink"   (e.g. lager and black) or for lads who wanted to show off and appear cultured. Bitter was the staple though, and sometimes mild. To be honest though, most 70s pub beer was rubbish (apart from Joseph Holts - which was also the cheapest too)


Saw an FCUM design recently saying "Holts Not Hate", solid bit of Mancunian imagery that.


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 29, 2021)

That's sooooo FCUM  If I remember correctly, the bar at Broadhurst Park is mainly Holts.

Ever since I left Salford, a few decades back, I've often pined for a pint of Holts. Mind you, whenever I visit, I realise either my taste has changed or modern Holts is a completey different pint.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> Probably not as old as you, fella. Sure, we had lager round our way in the 70s, but it tended to be... ahem... a "lasses drink"


If you were drinking in the 70s then you are older than him.


----------



## campanula (Nov 29, 2021)

70s drinking = barley wine. Even Abbots  was acceptable and i still retain a lasting fondness for the only decent thing to ever emerge from Watney's - those little red-foil capped bottles of Stingo.  (Used to wander home from the Queen's tavern in Crouch End with one in each duffel-coat pocket) Course, as a druggie, (and only occasional daytime drinker), what do I know.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

campanula said:


> 70s drinking = barley wine. Even Abbots  was acceptable and i still retain a lasting fondness for the only decent thing to ever emerge from Watney's - those little red-foil capped bottles of Stingo.  (Used to wander home from the Queen's tavern in Crouch End with one in each duffel-coat pocket) Course, as a druggie, (and only occasional daytime drinker), what do I know.


Oooh my lord...barley wine! (7 - 12%)


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 29, 2021)

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but if not, I worked as a window cleaner up in Farnworth for a bit in 1978 or 1979. My round was all elderly women and they used to invite me in for a bottle of stout and Mr Kiplings cake. One of them always set aside a bottle of Gold Label with some manor house cake. Anyway, by the time I got to the end of the round, I was pissed as a fart and in danger of a serious industrial accident. Fortunately, I wasn't in the job for very long.


----------



## krtek a houby (Nov 29, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but if not, I worked as a window cleaner up in Farnworth for a bit in 1978 or 1979. My round was all elderly women and they used to invite me in for a bottle of stout and Mr Kiplings cake. One of them always set aside a bottle of Gold Label with some manor house cake. Anyway, by the time I got to the end of the round, I was pissed as a fart and in danger of a serious industrial accident. Fortunately, I wasn't in the job for very long.


Might have seen this film back in the day


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2021)

brogdale said:


> Oooh my lord...barley wine! (7 - 12%)


That went half and half with stout or bitter in our pub.


----------



## campanula (Nov 29, 2021)

Urgh, Gold label. Wrong colour for a start. Oddly, I was also a window cleaner (1978-9) and did indeed fall through a customers upstairs window after a pub -lunch...although I maintain to this day that it was all down to an unfortunate ladder angle because of the downstairs bay windows.
apols for apostrophe fails


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

krtek a houby said:


> What's your tipple again?



Beer-wise it's pretty broad. I even drink Euro-fizz occasionally. It has its place. An ice-cold Stella or Estrella, when you're lying by a pool in 30 degrees can be just the ticket; although of course the correct drink would be a well chilled dry cider. They're not proper beers though. Proper beers don't have gas added to them, have to be raised by hand-pump, and are mainly consumed by boring blokes wearing jumpers with elbow patches. The only exception to this is Guinness, which when well kept and poured, is probably the finest pint on the planet.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2021)

Whilst I can appreciate Guinness, it’s pretty bland in terms of stout.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Bitter is rank. Old man's beer. I only drink pales or stout. Anything brown looking is to be avoided.



See, you've been spending to much time hanging out in wine bars with blokes called Algernon.


----------



## souljacker (Nov 29, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> Saw an FCUM design recently saying "Holts Not Hate", solid bit of Mancunian imagery that.



I saw this in a pub in Preston recently:


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> See, you've been spending to much time hanging out in wine bars with blokes called Algernon.



It tends to be stronger stouts that have more complex flavours. Tap rooms or even a ‘spoons occasionally.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

Serge Forward said:


> Probably not as old as you, fella.





Serge Forward said:


> I worked as a window cleaner up in Farnworth for a bit in 1978 or 1979.



Unless you were a child labourer, you are older than me


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

JimW said:


> It's one of the few British beers widely available here. I'd rather drink Greene King, which says a lot.





campanula said:


> 70s drinking = barley wine. Even Abbots  was acceptable ...



I've honestly never really got the Greene King hate. Abbot Ale is a very reasonable, big flavoured, beer, and Abbot Ale reserve, if you can find it, is a proper treat.


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Beer-wise it's pretty broad. I even drink Euro-fizz occasionally. It has its place. An ice-cold Stella or Estrella, when you're lying by a pool in 30 degrees can be just the ticket; although of course the correct drink would be a well chilled dry cider. They're not proper beers though. Proper beers don't have gas added to them, have to be raised by hand-pump, and are mainly consumed by boring blokes wearing jumpers with elbow patches. The only exception to this is Guinness, which when well kept and poured, is probably the finest pint on the planet.


I did get told off recently for doing an anti-Irish microaggression for saying that Guinness was vile. Although I'd not touched the wretched stuff for a very long time, and when I did try some recently, it wasn't as bad as I remembered. Still though, it's hardly Strongbow Dark Fruits is it?


souljacker said:


> I saw this in a pub in Preston recently:


I appreciate the sentiment, but also I can't condone craft brews under any circumstances.


Spymaster said:


> I've honestly never really got the Greene King hate. Abbot Ale is a very reasonable, big flavoured, beer, and Abbot Ale reserve, if you can find it, is a proper treat.


And as pub chains go, Greene King seem... well, I'm sure Greene King are probably bastards, but their owners seem less keen on using their pubs to push a weirdo agenda than Wetherspoons or Sam Smiths? I wouldn't walk a thousand miles to go to a Greene King pub but certainly wouldn't say no to visiting one either?


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 29, 2021)

Guinness is rank, turns your shit to gloop and takes ages to pour, wasting every fucker's time.
Bitter, mild, IPA etc. are bogging too, drunk by wankers with weird facial hair whose main topic of conversation is driving directions. And their latest trend is to ask for a fucking sample of the stuff before committing a whole three quid to a pint, thus taking up the bar-person's time and therefore wasting mine.
It's got to be lager, a decent >5% one, so Stella's fucking well relegated now. San Migel, Krone, Estrella all work nicely, not too much flavour and get you pissed.
Can't be a lager lout without lager!


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> ... it's hardly Strongbow Dark Fruits is it?






> And as pub chains go, Greene King seem... well, I'm sure Greene King are probably bastards, but their owners seem less keen on using their pubs to push a weirdo agenda than Wetherspoons or Sam Smiths? I wouldn't walk a thousand miles to go to a Greene King pub but certainly wouldn't say no to visiting one either?



Agreed. They're nothing particularly special but a pretty solid chain. You know you'll get a decent beer, and if they've got Abbot Reserve on, come out steaming!


----------



## JimW (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> I've honestly never really got the Greene King hate. Abbot Ale is a very reasonable, big flavoured, beer, and Abbot Ale reserve, if you can find it, is a proper treat.


It was only ever a guest beer round our way and isn't great in tins here but not anything against it in principle. Some of the best stuff widely available its Tennents Scottish Ale in bottles which probably wouldn't look at at home.
Few microbrew places but last time I visited horrible overstrength murk.


----------



## hitmouse (Nov 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> Guinness is rank, turns your shit to gloop and takes ages to pour, wasting every fucker's time.
> Bitter, mild, IPA etc. are bogging too, drunk by wankers with weird facial hair whose main topic of conversation is driving directions. And their latest trend is to ask for a fucking sample of the stuff before committing a whole three quid to a pint, thus taking up the bar-person's time and therefore wasting mine.
> It's got to be lager, a decent >5% one, so Stella's fucking well relegated now. San Migel, Krone, Estrella all work nicely, not too much flavour and get you pissed.
> Can't be a lager lout without lager!


What would you do if you get dragged to one of them ale pubs where they don't have cheap lager? Would you pay the extra "lager tax" and get something fancy German pilsner or whatever or would you just try and find a cheap bitter? I used to be the former but I'm the latter nowadays. God help anyone in a pub where they don't have cheap bitter cos it's either fancy pilsner or hoppy IPAs, though.


----------



## Bahnhof Strasse (Nov 29, 2021)

hitmouse said:


> What would you do if you get dragged to one of them ale pubs where they don't have cheap lager? Would you pay the extra "lager tax" and get something fancy German pilsner or whatever or would you just try and find a cheap bitter? I used to be the former but I'm the latter nowadays. God help anyone in a pub where they don't have cheap bitter cos it's either fancy pilsner or hoppy IPAs, though.



I would go with the fancy pilsner and never return to that place. There is only one that I know of near me, the Winterton Arms, a large selection of poncey crap, have not given it a second visit:


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> And their latest trend is to ask for a fucking sample of the stuff before committing a whole three quid to a pint ...



 I've done this for years.

Why the fuck would you buy a pint of something if you don't know what it tastes like? Obviously it's not an issue for lager drinkers cos they just want to get pissed as quickly as possible and most lagers taste the same, but for proper beer drinkers, taste matters.

ETA> I recently tasted the entire range of beer offerings in a boozer that only had Camden beers on; then asked for a gin and tonic.


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Beer-wise it's pretty broad. I even drink Euro-fizz occasionally. It has its place. An ice-cold Stella or Estrella, when you're lying by a pool in 30 degrees can be just the ticket; although of course the correct drink would be a well chilled dry cider. They're not proper beers though. Proper beers don't have gas added to them, have to be raised by hand-pump, and are mainly consumed by boring blokes wearing jumpers with elbow patches. The only exception to this is Guinness, which when well kept and poured, is probably the finest pint on the planet.


You'll be unsurprised to hear that I'm setting about my first 1698 of the evening and probably even more unsurprised that I'm doing so whilst wearing a jumper with elbow patches!


----------



## brogdale (Nov 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I would go with the fancy pilsner and never return to that place. There is only one that I know of near me, the Winterton Arms, a large selection of poncey crap, have not given it a second visit:
> 
> View attachment 298722


Reminds me when some ex-colleagues cajoled me into a night out in Croydon and was taken to the Tree House in the South End 'Restaurant quarter'. Asked for a pint of bitter and they said they had no ale on pump, but could offer me a bottle of Youngs 'Waggle dance'; cunts.


----------



## Serge Forward (Nov 29, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Unless you were a child labourer, you are older than me


I always had you down as a proper owd codger! What do I know eh


----------



## William of Walworth (Nov 29, 2021)

Bahnhof Strasse said:


> I would go with the fancy pilsner and never return to that place. There is only one that I know of near me, the Winterton Arms, a large selection of poncey crap, have not given it a second visit:
> 
> View attachment 298722


Fuck that total shit for a full-of-wrongness 'opinion' , man!!!!   

Pilsner rather than the quality real ale range???? 

If those back-wall beers** are overpriced, I'd probably avoid them (not in an insistantly opinionated way though!  ).

**the actual 'craft' ones, as opposed to the ones on the handpumps, which are surely much more traditional??

But to have seven!!!! handpump ales available -- hopefully ever-changing and varying! -- is something we _dream_ about in the beer desert of Swansea 

That range, for all I can see, might even include an actual  scrumpy on pump!!


----------



## 8ball (Nov 30, 2021)

I'm going to put a second vote in for Dead Pony Club.  On draught.  At a place that used to be a McDonald's.
They've laid off on the grapefruit.


----------



## equationgirl (Nov 30, 2021)

JimW said:


> It was only ever a guest beer round our way and isn't great in tins here but not anything against it in principle. Some of the best stuff widely available its Tennents Scottish Ale in bottles which probably wouldn't look at at home.
> Few microbrew places but last time I visited horrible overstrength murk.


If you ever need a shipment of Tennants, let me know


----------



## nastyned (Dec 22, 2021)

According to brewdog bosses brewdog are great. That's me convinced then. Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past


----------



## dessiato (Dec 22, 2021)

I shall shortly be in Scotland where I'll meet a friend and we will drink Brewdog and get drunk on Kraken rum.


----------



## dessiato (Dec 23, 2021)

No doubt someone will be along to insult me soon, after all liking/supporting/drinking Brewdog is not very acceptable to many here, but it seems Brewdog have improved their staff relations. 

BBC News - Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past








						Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past
					

The craft brewer's chairman says its management issues are in the past, following claims of a toxic culture.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## fishfinger (Dec 23, 2021)

dessiato said:


> No doubt someone will be along to insult me soon, after all liking/supporting/drinking Brewdog is not very acceptable to many here, but it seems Brewdog have improved their staff relations.
> 
> BBC News - Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past
> http://[URL='https://www.bbc.co.uk/...bbc.co.uk/news/business-59758169[/URL[/COLOR]]


According to the bosses.


----------



## kenny g (Dec 23, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> I used to drink Punk IPA a bit but not now they are cheating us on the booze content.  Its a thin end of the wedge issue, next thing we know they may start employing cleaners for their bars.  This is not what Brewdog should be about.


The Aldi anti establishment IPA has kept to a reassuring 5.6 percent so gets my vote if I need a break from the port and am bored with London porter or suchlike.


----------



## kenny g (Dec 23, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> This has potential as a morning drink.  A fusion of Vietnamese coffee and Brewdog Ten Ton Truck.  At just over 10% it's certainly fits the bill as a pre-work eye-opener.


Hope you aren't a bus or train driver...


----------



## Serge Forward (Dec 23, 2021)

dessiato said:


> No doubt someone will be along to insult me soon, after all liking/supporting/drinking Brewdog is not very acceptable to many here, but it seems Brewdog have improved their staff relations.
> 
> BBC News - Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past
> 
> ...


I see they're setting up a workplace representative group... the only place I ever worked in that had one of those was virulently anti union.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 23, 2021)

dessiato said:


> No doubt someone will be along to insult me soon, after all liking/supporting/drinking Brewdog is not very acceptable to many here, but it seems Brewdog have improved their staff relations.
> 
> BBC News - Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past
> 
> ...


Yup, it's good to read official confirmation that management issues are in the past. It means all the anti-Brewdog maniacs on this thread have no option but to shut up from now on.

Anyone who criticises Brewdog now can be considered against worker rights and against good management practice.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 23, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Anyone who criticises Brewdog now can be considered against worker rights and against good management practice.



Their ability to take onboard criticism and act decisively in the best interests of their employees is outstanding.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 23, 2021)

I am wholly unconvinced that everything is rosy within the Brewdog organisation, just because the managers say so.

Unless the whole management and company culture has changed, there will continue to be issues regardless.

By all means believe the management when they tell you there's no problems. But ask yourself why you would believe the management over the workers when management are proven liars.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 23, 2021)

Many years ago I worked for a company that carried out annual staff feedback surveys.   The survey was compulsory and it was "confidential" yet we had to log in with our ID...

All questions were multiple choice and none of the options allowed you to leave any negative feedback.  It was all just degrees of praising management.

After a few years we got wise and managed to work the system to let them know how we really felt.  The response was hilarious.  Management accepted responsibility for their poor communication, they hadn't communicated to us how brilliant they were.  Not the 70 hour weeks and sleepless night through stress whilst on £16k a year, it was all just communications!


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 23, 2021)

Marvellous company.


----------



## brogdale (Dec 23, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> I am wholly unconvinced that everything is rosy within the Brewdog organisation, just because the managers say so.
> 
> Unless the whole management and company culture has changed, there will continue to be issues regardless.
> 
> By all means believe the management when they tell you there's no problems. But ask yourself why you would believe the management over the workers when management are proven liars.


Isn't it odd that there's a "perception gap" between ex-employees and those whose livelihood still depends upon employment with the company. 



> Following an independent review into the complaints published this week, Brewdog's chairman and deputy chairwoman, Allan Leighton and Blythe Jack, said they didn't "subscribe to the characterisation".
> In their letter to staff, they said a "major theme" of the review was that there was "a distinct gap in terms of perception between former crew and those still with the business".


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 23, 2021)

They’re too hip for industrial relations issues.


----------



## Teaboy (Dec 23, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They’re too _punk_ for industrial relations issues.



Spot on.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 23, 2021)

Teaboy said:


> Many years ago I worked for a company that carried out annual staff feedback surveys.   The survey was compulsory and it was "confidential" yet we had to log in with our ID...
> 
> All questions were multiple choice and none of the options allowed you to leave any negative feedback.  It was all just degrees of praising management.
> 
> After a few years we got wise and managed to work the system to let them know how we really felt.  The response was hilarious.  Management accepted responsibility for their poor communication, they hadn't communicated to us how brilliant they were.  Not the 70 hour weeks and sleepless night through stress whilst on £16k a year, it was all just communications!


It's always communications. I have lost count of how many times somebody new at the top comes and says they are going to fix communications.


Magnus McGinty said:


> They’re too hip for industrial relations issues.


Nailed it.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 23, 2021)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They’re too hip for industrial relations issues.



Quite rightly so.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 23, 2021)

equationgirl said:


> I am wholly unconvinced that everything is rosy within the Brewdog organisation, just because the managers say so.


The BBC says so.

If you have a TV licence effectively you personally have signed off on the conclusion.


----------



## nastyned (Dec 23, 2021)

I know you'll all find this hard to believe but I've heard from someone who's seen the report and it's a lot less positive than the BBC article makes out. I dare say there'll be something on Punks With Purpose soon.


----------



## stdP (Dec 23, 2021)

nastyned said:


> I dare say there'll be something on Punks With Purpose soon.



Punks with P45s?


----------



## SpookyFrank (Dec 23, 2021)

dessiato said:


> No doubt someone will be along to insult me soon, after all liking/supporting/drinking Brewdog is not very acceptable to many here, but it seems Brewdog have improved their staff relations.
> 
> BBC News - Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past
> 
> ...



I bet they've unsued that pub in Brum as well.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Dec 23, 2021)

Spymaster said:


> Quite rightly so.



I ain’t fighting. It’s too funny nowadays.


----------



## teuchter (Dec 23, 2021)

nastyned said:


> I know you'll all find this hard to believe but I've heard from someone who's seen the report and it's a lot less positive than the BBC article makes out. I dare say there'll be something on Punks With Purpose soon.


Well, we can listen to the trusted voice of the nation, the BBC, or we can listen to your friend who is probably being paid off by some global corporate brewing operation that wants to shut down an enterprising independent Scottish business keeping the spirit of punk alive in these difficult times.


----------



## alex_ (Dec 24, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Well, we can listen to the trusted voice of the nation, the BBC, or we can listen to your friend who is probably being paid off by some global corporate brewing operation that wants to shut down an enterprising independent Scottish business keeping the spirit of punk alive in these difficult times.



This is brilliant


----------



## MickiQ (Dec 24, 2021)

teuchter said:


> Well, we can listen to the trusted voice of the nation, the BBC, or we can listen to your friend who is probably being paid off by some global corporate brewing operation that wants to shut down an enterprising independent Scottish business keeping the spirit of punk alive in these difficult times.


Now this is the teuchter we know and love, welcome back pal we were worried about you for a bit.


----------



## equationgirl (Dec 25, 2021)

nastyned said:


> I know you'll all find this hard to believe but I've heard from someone who's seen the report and it's a lot less positive than the BBC article makes out. I dare say there'll be something on Punks With Purpose soon.


I am shocked, I tell you.


----------



## Spymaster (Dec 26, 2021)

nastyned said:


> I know you'll all find this hard to believe but I've heard from someone who's seen the report and it's a lot less positive than the BBC article makes out. I dare say there'll be something on Punks With Purpose soon.


I know someone who knows someone whose wife used to work for BD. She says all employees get free massages at the end of each shift, free turkeys at Xmas, and lobster and caviar on their birthdays.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 6, 2022)

Enjoying my shareholder benefits, at Edinburgh Airport


----------



## steeplejack (Jan 6, 2022)

bUt ThE bUrGerZ


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2022)

So whatever happened to those free cans of branded water they were handing out at covid test centres and all the places they were opening up for use by the NHS (or whatever their covid-related cash-in lies were?).

Imagine using a pandemic as an opportunity to promote your own commercial brand.  What a bunch of shameless cunts you'd have to be. 

Step forward Brewdog,


----------



## brogdale (Jan 6, 2022)

editor said:


> So whatever happened to those free cans of branded water they were handing out at covid test centres and all the places they were opening up for use by the NHS (or whatever their covid-related cash-in lies were?).
> 
> Imagine using a pandemic as an opportunity to promote your own commercial brand.  What a bunch of shameless cunts you'd have to be.
> 
> Step forward Brewdog,


Yep; that's pretty bad...but..._Pecan salted caramel stout_?

WTF


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Enjoying my shareholder benefits, at Edinburgh Airport View attachment 304779View attachment 304780View attachment 304781



That beer sounds ghastly.  You deserve everything that's coming to you on your next visit to the toilet.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yep; that's pretty bad...but..._Pecan salted caramel stout_?
> 
> WTF


That sounds fantastic. Far better than a dull pint of CAMRA approved _Fartwells Old Scrotum_ at any rate.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That sounds fantastic. Far better than a dull pint of CAMRA approved _Fartwells Old Scrotum_ at any rate.


No qualms about loving up a company with what has to be the worst employee record in the industry in recent times, then?

And that drink sounds like just the sort of novelty drivel that bored, more-money-than-sense hipsters get up all Instagrammed up about. Nice cheap dig at CAMRA too.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 6, 2022)

Teaboy said:


> That beer sounds ghastly.  You deserve everything that's coming to you on your next visit to the toilet.


That’s one of the very few BD brews I _would_ try.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 6, 2022)

Coming up eight years


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2022)

S☼I said:


> Coming up eight years


_107 pages_


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 6, 2022)

S☼I said:


> Coming up eight years



Punk will never die.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 6, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Punk will never die.



Thanks to Brewdog.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> That sounds fantastic. Far better than a dull pint of CAMRA approved _Fartwells Old Scrotum_ at any rate.


You'd have to put some effort into convincing me that 330ml of a dead, canned, confected "beer" is better than an actual pint of real ale.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> That’s one of the very few BD brews I _would_ try.



Well you will be able to discuss tasting notes with dessiato from adjoining cubicles.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2022)

brogdale said:


> You'd have to put some effort into convincing me that 330ml of a dead, canned, confected "beer" is better than an actual pint of real ale.


I’d rather have something that tastes interesting and hasn’t got a mixture of twigs, line cleaner and the publicans toenail clippings in it.


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I’d rather have something that tastes interesting and hasn’t got a mixture of twigs, line cleaner and the publicans toenail clippings in it.


Wow. Just look at you ridiculing and putting down independent breweries just because they're not _trendy._


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 6, 2022)

brogdale said:


> You'd have to put some effort into convincing me that 330ml of a dead, canned, confected "beer" is better than an actual pint of real ale.



A lot of _real ale_ is shit too though, tbf.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> A lot of _real ale_ is shit too though, tbf.


You're obviously not a very discerning consumer.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 6, 2022)

beesonthewhatnow said:


> I’d rather have something that tastes interesting and hasn’t got a mixture of twigs, line cleaner and the publicans toenail clippings in it.


Blimey, where you been drinking?


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Blimey, where you been drinking?


The Imaginary Arms.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 6, 2022)

This is genius ...









						BrewDog hop into Dry January with up to 25% off their range of alcohol-free beers
					

BrewDog have cut the cost on their range of alcohol-free beers to help those taking part in Dry January or beer lovers looking for a different kind of pour




					www.loudersound.com
				




These guys really know how to make money. It's an outstanding business.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is genius ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it's overhopped bollocks - i've tried things like nanny state and some of their other offerings and it seems to me their target market is people whose taste buds have been eroded over the years. it's the alcohol free equivalent of tabasco. only it isn't nice with anything unlike the well-known pepper sauce.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 6, 2022)

How to fill a pub with paying customers ....









						Brewdog offering unlimited free refills of non-alcoholic beer for Dry January
					

The popular food and drink spot is helping those steering away from alcohol this month




					www.dublinlive.ie
				




Outstanding work!


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> it's overhopped bollocks ...



So is the rest of their output. People buy the fuck out of it though. I think maybe because they appreciate the service that BD have done for the brewing industry in general, and it's single-handed revival of the punk movement.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> So is the rest of their output.


somehow i am not surprised.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> How to fill a pub with paying customers ....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


nonetheless people taking advantage of this offer may still find themselves chucking after six or eight drinks.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 6, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> nonetheless people taking advantage of this offer may still find themselves chucking after six or eight drinks.



Brewdog won't care, as long as their alcohol-drinking friends keep spending away!


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (Jan 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is genius ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Didn’t realise their AF range was that big, I’ve only ever tried the Punk and Nanny State. The former is great, the latter is awful. Will search out the other 3 now. Top marketing


----------



## editor (Jan 6, 2022)

The brave whistleblowers who were abused while working at Brewdog are the real heroes here, of course.









						Are we entering the age of the whistleblower? - Business Leader News
					

The term whistleblower has long been used within the business and political world for centuries – and usually involves very high-profile people and global scandals.




					www.businessleader.co.uk


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 9, 2022)




----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Is it just me or could this be construed as marketing at minors? 
Also if you are trying to go dry due to having an alcohol problem this is surely this is not going to help at all. Just have one, then another, and so on.



> "Vimes sat gloomily behind a glass of lemonade. He wanted one drink, and understood precisely why he wasn't going to have one. One drink ended up arriving in a dozen glasses."


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Enjoying my shareholder benefits, at Edinburgh Airport View attachment 304779View attachment 304780View attachment 304781


'Growler'? Spot Brewdog's misogyny, which you're supporting. Awesome.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 'Growler'? Spot Brewdog's misogyny, which you're supporting. Awesome.


Worse still, they're hiding that behind the Americanisation of using the word to describe a half gallon/2 quart/4 pint container.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 'Growler'? Spot Brewdog's misogyny, which you're supporting. Awesome.


Eh?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Worse still, they're hiding that behind the Americanisation of using the word to describe a half gallon/2 quart/4 pint container.



Forsooth, sir. I do declare you talketh bollocks!


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Forsooth, sir. I do declare you talketh bollocks!


No-one out to play today?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

I'm sure we can crowbar some misogyny in there if we try _really hard!!!_


----------



## dessiato (Jan 9, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 'Growler'? Spot Brewdog's misogyny, which you're supporting. Awesome.


Sounds like you’ve found a problem that exists only in your mind.

“A *growler* (US) (/ˈɡraʊlər/) is a glass, ceramic, or stainless steel bottle (or jug) used to transport draft beer.[1]They are commonly sold at breweries and brewpubs as a means to sell take-out craft beer.”


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Sounds like you’ve found a problem that exists only in your mind.
> 
> “A *growler* (US) (/ˈɡraʊlər/) is a glass, ceramic, or stainless steel bottle (or jug) used to transport draft beer.[1]They are commonly sold at breweries and brewpubs as a means to sell take-out craft beer.”


(US) maybe
(UK) 



Spoiler: spoiler



growler


​


Spoiler: spoiler



(Slang) vagina

This word was popularised by Bo'Selecta! and the character of Lorraine Kelly, with her famous phrase, 'Have ya seen me growler' as she parted her legs to reveal an unsightly mound of pubic hair.

This word is generally used to describe an old, unkept or generally disgusting vagina. It is not a pleasant term.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> (US) maybe
> (UK)
> 
> 
> ...


I’d never heard it used that way and, prior to this, only knew it as a bottle size. Given the pic shows a growler bottle, to assume that it’s misogynistic seems to be finding a problem that doesn’t actually exist.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 9, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 'Growler'? Spot Brewdog's misogyny, which you're supporting. Awesome.


No, No, it not misogyny, they are clearly referencing a Class 37 Engine, that has that nickname.  









						British Rail Class 37 - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I’d never heard it used that way and, prior to this, only knew it as a bottle size. Given the pic shows a growler bottle, to assume that it’s misogynistic seems to be finding a problem that doesn’t actually exist.



It's Broggers and EG, ffs. These two could find a way to take offence at a cotton bud!


----------



## dessiato (Jan 9, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> No, No, it not misogyny, they are clearly referencing a Class 37 Engine, that has that nickname.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You know you’re not allowed to say that, don’t you? It’s offensive and misogynistic.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> You know you’re not allowed to say that, don’t you? It’s offensive and misogynistic.


I'm pretty going by what they have done in the past the definition Brogdale, and Elastigirl are using is the correct one.

It's not like they have been sexist before.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I’d never heard it used that way and, prior to this, only knew it as a bottle size. Given the pic shows a growler bottle, to assume that it’s misogynistic seems to be finding a problem that doesn’t actually exist.


Have to say, I'd never heard it used to describe a four-pint carry-out container; I'd heard of quart bottles and my mate Phil used to always insist on having a post-work _St. Ivel _on Fridays. But i suppose it is an American thing.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Have to say, I'd never heard it used to describe a four-pint carry-out container; I'd heard of quart bottles and my mate Phil used to always insist on having a post-work _St. Ivel _on Fridays. But i suppose it is an American thing.


Perhaps that’s where I first heard it, I don’t remember.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Perhaps that’s where I first heard it, I don’t remember.


Thing is...when BD alighted on the branding they'd have had the agency go through any possible other meanings/uses etc. Can well imagine these 'punks' having a bit of giggle about what they could get away with because in America it's an actual thing. See, they're dangerous types; they don't care...


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Thing is...when BD alighted on the branding they'd have had the agency go through any possible other meanings/uses etc. Can well imagine these 'punks' having a bit of giggle about what they could get away with because in America it's an actual thing. See, they're dangerous types; they don't care...



The dastardly rotters. It's the end of the world!


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> The dastardly rotters. It's the end of the world!


Just one more reason not to buy their over-priced, confected 'beers'.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Just one more reason not to buy their over-priced, confected 'beers'.



Certainly for beef-witted serial offence takers. 

The rest of us don't buy it because it tastes shite.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Certainly for beef-witted serial offence takers.
> 
> The rest of us don't buy it because it tastes shite.


Ah...the _us _word, again.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Ah...the _us _word, again.



Shorthand for non-silly people, in this case


----------



## Maggot (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Just one more reason not to buy their over-priced, confected 'beers'.


Surely all beers are confected?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

Maggot said:


> Surely all beers are confected?


Quite right; I should have said overly confected.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Shorthand for non-silly people, in this case


Always a useful heuristic.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's Broggers and EG, ffs. These two could find a way to take offence at a cotton bud!


Fuck off. It's blatant misogyny and you're just being contrary because that's what you do.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Fuck off. It's blatant misogyny and you're just being contrary because that's what you do.



Don't be so silly.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Don't be so silly.


Curious how you're using a loaded patronising word like 'silly'.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Curious how you're using a loaded patronising word like 'silly'.



Would you prefer brainless?

You _are_ being silly!


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Would you prefer brainless?
> 
> You _are_ being silly!


Yeah, because complaining about misogyny as a marketing tool is such a silly thing to do.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Yeah, because complaining about misogyny as a marketing tool is such a silly thing to do.



If that's your version of misogyny, I don't care about it. Neither do most people outside these boards. Let's face it, you could find misogyny in a paperclip!

That's what you do


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 9, 2022)

Leave it out Spy ffs, this is embarrassing


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

S☼I said:


> Leave it out Spy ffs, this is embarrassing


Why? It’s bonkers!


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 9, 2022)

Yes, growler is a bottle, but I think it's disingenuous to suggest the Brewdog bosses _had no idea_ it's also a crude euphemism for vagina. Nudge nudge lads lol, top #bantz


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 9, 2022)

S☼I said:


> Yes, growler is a bottle, but I think it's disingenuous to suggest the Brewdog bosses _had no idea_ it's also a crude euphemism for vagina. Nudge nudge lads lol, top #bantz


Given their history, I think they chose it specifically for that reason.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 9, 2022)

I imagine Brewdog knew exactly what they were doing. They have a long history of being “edgy”, as well as a culture of bullying and disdain for their workforce. So, yeah. I’m not on their side.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 9, 2022)

We were not privy to the marketing meeting that chose the word "growler." We cannot do other than speculate on the reasons for choosing to call a club a growler club after a growler bottle. And that it might, by some, seem to be offensive.

I most certainly did not see it as such, because I assumed, that, because it was on a growler sized bottle, it referred to the bottle, and people who drank/bought such bottles.

Had it been explained, in a reasonable manner, rather than in a judgemental tone, I might have been more open to the possibility that some might find it offensive. The way that the initial criticism was posted made it appear that there was a very specific intent to find something to be offended by.

Unfortunately there are some who will find a reason to be offended by Brewdog whatever it does.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

<tries to imagine the reaction if Brewdog had a beer called Bishops Finger…>


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 9, 2022)

TBH I do find the 'growler' thing a bit cringy. I don't think it came from that in the US but places here should probably leave off. It's really not a Brewdog thing particularly though, their marketing people or whoever haven't chosen it at all.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> <tries to imagine the reaction if Brewdog had a beer called Bishops Finger…>



Perhaps boycott Fullers for appropriating "London Pride".


----------



## chilango (Jan 9, 2022)

Think I'll stick with my excellent local brewers who say:

"_We will not stock products with sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist or any other discriminatory branding"_

...knowing I can enjoy beer at their taproom without any shit "banter".


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Perhaps boycott Fullers for appropriating "London Pride".


Seeing it was introduced in 1959 and London Pride first happened in 1972 unless the Fullers marketing team had a TARDIS I'm guessing not.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)




----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

chilango said:


> Think I'll stick with my excellent local brewers who say:
> 
> "_We will not stock products with sexist, racist, homophobic, transphobic, ableist or any other discriminatory branding"_
> 
> ...knowing I can enjoy beer at their taproom without any shit "banter".



I went to a pub that only had Fosters and Stella and loads of shit banter happened anyway.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> We were not privy to the marketing meeting that chose the word "growler." We cannot do other than speculate on the reasons for choosing to call a club a growler club after a growler bottle. And that it might, by some, seem to be offensive.
> 
> I most certainly did not see it as such, because I assumed, that, because it was on a growler sized bottle, it referred to the bottle, and people who drank/bought such bottles.
> 
> ...


So the only woman who regularly contributes on this thread is called judgemental and looking for offence for complaining about misogyny BUT NOT IN THE RIGHT WAY???

For fucks sake.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> So the only woman who regularly contributes on this thread is called judgemental and looking for offence for complaining about misogyny BUT NOT IN THE RIGHT WAY???



Why do you always do this? It is possible for people to disagree with you for reasons other than your being a woman.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Why do you always do this? It is possible for people to disagree with you for reasons other than your being a woman.


A woman complaining about misogyny.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> I went to a pub that only had Fosters and Stella and loads of shit banter happened anyway.



I went to a Brewdog once and didn't hear any shit banter. It is of course possible, that the shit banter began after I left.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I went to a Brewdog once and didn't hear any shit banter. It is of course possible, that the shit banter began after I left.


It's the shit banter that may be happening in the Marketing Team that is more of concern than want is said by customers in their pubs.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> It's the shit banter that may be happening in the Marketing Team that is more of concern than want is said by customers in their pubs.



You wouldn’t believe the shit banter that may be happening at McVities!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> You wouldn’t believe the shit banter that may be happening at McVities!


That takes the…

No, I don’t have the heart.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> It's the shit banter that may be happening in the Marketing Team that is more of concern ...



I lose sleep over it.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 9, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> So the only woman who regularly contributes on this thread is called judgemental and looking for offence for complaining about misogyny BUT NOT IN THE RIGHT WAY???
> 
> For fucks sake.


I don’t give a flying fuck whether you’re male or female, it’s irrelevant. If you’d explained why you found it offensive I’d have been more inclined to listen.

As I’ve said, I assumed that because it was on a growler it was referring to that. As I’ve said, I had not heard growler as a slang expression for vagina. But you didn’t explain, did you? And somehow it’s my fault that I cannot read your mind.

eta this is what you originally said, no explanation of why you thought it’s offensiv, just this:
”'Growler'? Spot Brewdog's misogyny, which you're supporting. Awesome.”


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I don’t give a flying fuck whether you’re male or female, it’s irrelevant. If you’d explained why you found it offensive I’d have been more inclined to listen.
> 
> As I’ve said, I assumed that because it was on a growler it was referring to that. As I’ve said, I had not heard growler as a slang expression for vagina. But you didn’t explain, did you? And somehow it’s my fault that I cannot read your mind.


Oh ok, I didn't realise complaints about misogyny had to be accompanied by an essay on why exactly I find it offensive. 

I find it offensive because growlercan be used as a particular vulgar word for female genitalia and Brewdog have a history of using sexist and misogynistic language and imagery for gain, regardless of any offensiveness.

No-one has to ever explain why they find something offensive, here or in real life. You demanding an explanation just comes across as arrogant and that you know better than anyone else what is offensive and what isn't.

Whether or not you personally are familiar with the word 'growler' isn't the issue - it's been explained to you more than once that Brewdog are a shady company with no ethical compass and yet you see nothing wrong with their behaviour.


----------



## seeformiles (Jan 9, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 'Growler'? Spot Brewdog's misogyny, which you're supporting. Awesome.



In Yorkshire a Growler is also a term for a pork pie so it’s not necessarily sexual - even if BD are referring to the US meaning (quite accurately in the photo). I hate BD but I think you may be barking (no pun intended..) up the wrong tree here.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 9, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Oh ok, I didn't realise complaints about misogyny had to be accompanied by an essay on why exactly I find it offensive.
> 
> I find it offensive because growlercan be used as a particular vulgar word for female genitalia and Brewdog have a history of using sexist and misogynistic language and imagery for gain, regardless of any offensiveness.
> 
> ...


As someone who enjoys most of the beers, and as a shareholder it would be rather hypocritical if I did.

But to return to your point about the offensiveness of the word. If all you, or indeed anyone, states something is offensive it is usually a good idea to explain why. Had this been done I would have learned something and would have changed my position on this. Now I know that growler can be offensive, and why, I can modify my attitude to it. Without this knowledge why would I bother?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

This is outstanding. 

Brewdog are already carbon negative and actually remove twice as much carbon from the atmosphere than they emit. They are about to start producing vodka from waste beer and package it in biodegradable paper bottles. 

With environmental credentials like that, who cares what they call their bottles?


----------



## dessiato (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is outstanding.
> 
> Brewdog are already carbon negative and actually remove twice as much carbon from the atmosphere than they emit. They are about to start producing vodka from waste beer and package it in biodegradable paper bottles.
> 
> With environmental credentials like that, who cares what they call their bottles?


There’s a deal currently where if you buy one of the beers they plant two trees. The brewery aims to be carbon neutral at least.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is outstanding.
> 
> Brewdog are already carbon negative and actually remove twice as much carbon from the atmosphere than they emit. They are about to start producing vodka from waste beer and package it in biodegradable paper bottles.
> 
> With environmental credentials like that, who cares what they call their bottles?



Carbon-Undoing New Technology is a funny name for a vodka, though.

I expect they’ll find a way of abbreviating it on the packaging.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Now I know that growler can be offensive, and why, I can modify my attitude to it.



Why would you though? 

The number of real people who would genuinely take offence at this is vanishingly small.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> There’s a deal currently where if you buy one of the beers they plant two trees. The brewery aims to be carbon neutral at least.



Outstanding. 

Exceptional company.


----------



## chilango (Jan 9, 2022)

Pathetic.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Why would you though?
> 
> The number of real people who would genuinely take offence at this is vanishingly small.


Because of this exchange I’ve asked some others about “growler” none of them had heard of it as an offensive term for vagina.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 9, 2022)

It‘s typical of that nudge nudge wink wink ironic hipster shit. Plausible deniability but the lads know what’s what eh? Them killjoy feminists just have no sense of humour knoworr-I-mean, lads?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Because of this exchange I’ve asked some others about “growler” none of them had heard of it as an offensive term for vagina.



I've only really heard it used in that sense by Australians.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I've only really heard it used in that sense by Australians.



Ah, I thought maybe there had been some trawling of urbandictionary* going on.

* - no relation to these hallowed halls afaik


----------



## teuchter (Jan 9, 2022)

Not that I'd want to stir things up on this thread but here is some material for you all to analyse, including the comments.









						Growlers - It's as simple as it gets
					

The lowdown on our favourite beery receptacle.




					www.brewdog.com


----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

I had certainly never heard the term “rush the growler” before, but Googling it leads to a lot of hits and background on US drinking culture.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> <tries to imagine the reaction if Brewdog had a beer called Bishops Finger…>


They'd have faced legal action because that trademark brand was made in 1958 and describes the (Kentish) signposts that originally directed the pilgrims of Thomas a Becket travelling to Canterbury.

The signage is still shown on the bottle label:



Avery decent, good value strong beer.

The brewers are tory cunts, of course...like most brewers.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

Oddly enough, I had actually heard of Bishops Finger prior to reading this thread.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Outstanding.
> 
> Exceptional company.


It's a tax dodge, of course.
What you'd expect from a company with a quarter of its stock held in the Cayman islands.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> Oddly enough, I had actually heard of Bishops Finger prior to reading this thread.


Exactly; they were trying to be edgy misogynists back in 1958.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> It's a tax dodge, of course.



Can you explain how it works?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Exactly; they were trying to be edgy misogynists back in 1958.



Imagine how different things would have been if the internet had existed.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Can you explain how it works?


No, but there's plenty of advice out there for investors who prefer not to honour their wider obligations to society:

https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/tax/2018/05/18/how-woods-can-be-tax-free/


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> Imagine how different things would have been if the internet had existed.


Don't get it; those signs have been known as that for many centuries.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Don't get it; those signs have been known as that for many centuries.



Disgusting, isn’t it?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> I had certainly never heard the term “rush the growler” before, but Googling it leads to a lot of hits and background on US drinking culture.


That article proves that Brewdog were perfectly aware of potential UK connotations back in 2011.

However, as discussed on this thread, a couple of weeks back an official report was published that confirms they have grown up and changed their ways now. 

Each time someone criticises Brewdog for a past crime - while knowing they've now been officially proven to have improved themselves - it sends out a very negative message: don't ever work to improve your corporate culture because you'll just keep on getting put down for things you did in the past.

A very irresponsible message to send out to companies because it will just discourage any of them from doing things better. 

For this reason the thread should be closed now. In fact it should be binned.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 9, 2022)

Bishop's Finger is alright, better than the perfumed piss Brewdog serve up


----------



## Sue (Jan 9, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Bitter is rank. Old man's beer. I only drink pales or stout. Anything brown looking is to be avoided.


I like bitter but it's often difficult to get these days because pubs have five different IPAs instead .


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> No, but there's plenty of advice out there for investors who prefer not to honour their wider obligations to society:
> 
> https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/tax/2018/05/18/how-woods-can-be-tax-free/



But how does becoming carbon neutral, recycling beer, and using biodegradable  packaging, help them dodge tax?


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> Oddly enough, I had actually heard of Bishops Finger prior to reading this thread.



It's sometimes known as, 'Nun's Delight', back in Kent.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> Disgusting, isn’t it?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> It's sometimes known as, 'Nun's Delight', back in Kent.


I've seen people refused service for asking for that....in Fav!


----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> It's sometimes known as, 'Nun's Delight', back in Kent.



FFS!!!


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> It's sometimes known as, 'Nun's Delight', back in Kent.



BURN HIM!


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> But how does becoming carbon neutral, recycling beer, and using biodegradable  packaging, help them dodge tax?


By owning the land on which the trees are planted.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> By owning the land on which the trees are planted.



Ahhhh, gotcha.


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 9, 2022)

8ball said:


> FFS!!!





Spymaster said:


> BURN HIM!



What?! 

That's always what it was called when I was in Kent! 

Personally, if I had to drink Shepherd Neame, I'd prefer a Masterbrew or Spitfire.

It actually pissed me off that Brewdog are such wankers because I like their beer. Especially the Elvis Juice. Have discovered that Aldi do a similar beer, can't remember what it's called but it's good and costs less too.


----------



## wtfftw (Jan 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Why would you though?
> 
> The number of real people who would genuinely take offence at this is vanishingly small.


It doesn't have to be about causing or taking offense. It can be about the general culture of all the small things that slip through and add up and become this larger way of putting down and silencing and taking the piss out of women and exploiting that position and imbalance for financial gain. 

And this


Fozzie Bear said:


> It‘s typical of that nudge nudge wink wink ironic hipster shit. Plausible deniability but the lads know what’s what eh? Them killjoy feminists just have no sense of humour knoworr-I-mean, lads?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> What?!
> 
> That's always what it was called when I was in Kent!
> 
> ...


All very personal taste and all that...but as a huge fan of SN I really have never taken to the Spitfire...just too 'red' and tastes like other, lesser beers. Agree about the ordinary bitter, though...it's a good session ale and always was. Well, since the 1970s at least; my paternal GF would never touch the stuff in the 50s/60's and always referred to our home-town brewers as Shit and scream.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jan 9, 2022)

the boy got a brewdog selection box for xmas. not my thing but some of those beers i didnt know existed- Parma Violet ale ?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> It actually pissed me off that Brewdog are such wankers because I like their beer.



Wrong way round.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 9, 2022)

I’ll just leave this here as a recent example of how seriously the CEO takes his workers:


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> All very personal taste and all that...but as a huge fan of SN I really have never taken to the Spitfire...just too 'red' and tastes like other, lesser beers. Agree about the ordinary bitter, though...it's a good session ale and always was. Well, since the 1970s at least; my paternal GF would never touch the stuff in the 50s/60's and always referred to our home-town brewers as Shit and scream.



What I really love SN for is the Hurlimann (or 'Hoologans').

I don't really ever drink lager unless I'm abroad but if I'm in Kent and it's a sunny day I can often be tempted to have a pint or three of the Swiss Stern Brau. 

I've never seen it anywhere else but in SN pubs and Kentish off-licences (though not for a while actually), and although I'd normally reckon on Czech or German lager being the best bet, Hurlimann is definitely my favourite lager.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 9, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> What I really love SN for is the Hurlimann (or 'Hoologans').
> 
> I don't really ever drink lager unless I'm abroad but if I'm in Kent and it's a sunny day I can often be tempted to have a pint or three of the Swiss Stern Brau.
> 
> I've never seen it anywhere else but in SN pubs and Kentish off-licences (though not for a while actually), and although I'd normally reckon on Czech or German lager being the best bet, Hurlimann is definitely my favourite lager.


Loved it as a youngster; if we were flush from the pack house casual labour we’d sometimes have H benders,especially in summer


----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> the boy got a brewdog selection box for xmas. not my thing but some of those beers i didnt know existed- Parma Violet ale ?



That doesn’t sound good.  Though there is a Parma Violet gin that is pretty nice.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jan 9, 2022)

I'd never heard of growler as slang for vagina, so I looked it up and find out it's definitely a thing. Brewdog have form for this kind of edgy shit, so the misogyny is true to form. They're also anti union. Their beer is shite and they're fucking arseholes too. What else is to debate? I await the day their workers organise and fuck their bosses over big time.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 9, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> I'd never heard of growler as slang for vagina, so I looked it up and find out it's definitely a thing. Brewdog have form for this kind of edgy shit, so the misogyny is true to form. They're also anti union. Their beer is shite and they're fucking arseholes too. What else is to debate? I await the day their workers organise and fuck their bosses over big time.



Outstanding marketing and business model though.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jan 9, 2022)

That'd only float your boat if you're a wrong un.


----------



## Sue (Jan 9, 2022)

dessiato said:


> As someone who enjoys most of the beers, and as a shareholder it would be rather hypocritical if I did.
> 
> But to return to your point about the offensiveness of the word. If all you, or indeed anyone, states something is offensive it is usually a good idea to explain why. Had this been done I would have learned something and would have changed my position on this. Now I know that growler can be offensive, and why, I can modify my attitude to it. Without this knowledge why would I bother?


It's a bit much to blame someone else because your slang isn't up to scratch. Apologising to equationgirl would seem the right thing to do?


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 9, 2022)

Legit surprised that that so many people didn't know that it meant that. I'm certain Brewdog did though. The twats.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 9, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Legit surprised that that so many people didn't know that it meant that. I'm certain Brewdog did though. The twats.



Ok, twat is still ok, noted.
And I assume cunt is still fine on Urban but I’m not sure about whether it would be misogynistic if used in branding. 

What is your position in the growler debate?


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Ok, twat is still ok, noted.
> And I assume cunt is still fine on Urban but I’m not sure about whether it would be misogynistic if used in branding.
> 
> What is your position in the growler debate?


Ok, I'll bite. I don't think I've heard/seen anyone use "twat" to decribe genitals before, even though that's supposedly the origin. As you know it's a common insult; growler isn't. Growler is not "just" a term for a vag - it's a particularly insulting, misogynist one.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Ok, twat is still ok, noted.
> And I assume cunt is still fine on Urban but I’m not sure about whether it would be misogynistic if used in branding.
> 
> What is your position in the growler debate?


You’re not sure if it would be ok to name a beer you were marketing “cunt”?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Ok, I'll bite. I don't think I've heard/seen anyone use "twat" to decribe genitals before, even though that's supposedly the origin.



“Supposedly”.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> You’re not sure if it would be ok to name a beer you were marketing “cunt”?



How about a wine?


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 10, 2022)

Bit weird 8ball


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> “Supposedly”.


So?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> So?



No, that’s fine.  Knowledge of the background of slang terms should hardly be material, should it?


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> No, that’s fine.  Knowledge of the background of slang terms should hardly be material, should it?


No offence, but what the fuck are you on about? 🤷‍♀️


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> No offence, but what the fuck are you on about? 🤷‍♀️



None taken.  Try reading back a bit.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I don’t give a flying fuck whether you’re male or female, it’s irrelevant. If you’d explained why you found it offensive I’d have been more inclined to listen.
> 
> As I’ve said, I assumed that because it was on a growler it was referring to that. As I’ve said, I had not heard growler as a slang expression for vagina. But you didn’t explain, did you? And somehow it’s my fault that I cannot read your mind.
> 
> ...


Says Mr ‘I go to Hooters for the food’


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 10, 2022)

S☼I said:


> Yes, growler is a bottle, but I think it's disingenuous to suggest the Brewdog bosses _had no idea_ it's also a crude euphemism for vagina. Nudge nudge lads lol, top #bantz


I hadn't heard it in that context until today (never watched that show so why would I?)
It does raise the question though, if any mainstream show uses a word and turns it into a misogynistic term, that the word then automatically becomes that for everyone?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I hadn't heard it in that context until today (never watched that show so why would I?)
> It does raise the question though, if any mainstream show uses a word and turns it into a misogynistic term, that the word then automatically becomes that for everyone?


If that is a question raised then the discussion above would suggest not. But then again the discussion has been about the issue of “edgy” capitalists knowingly adopting the word as a brand despite its alternative meaning.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Sue said:


> It's a bit much to blame someone else because your slang isn't up to scratch. Apologising to equationgirl would seem the right thing to do?


Apologise? For what?


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Ok, twat is still ok, noted.
> And I assume cunt is still fine on Urban but I’m not sure about whether it would be misogynistic if used in branding.
> 
> What is your position in the growler debate?


is cunt not misogynistic on Urban too?


----------



## Sue (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Apologise? For what?


Why not read back over the last few pages (say from 108 on) and see if you can work it out.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Sue said:


> Why not read back over the last few pages (say from 108 on) and see if you can work it out.


No. I’m not apologising to anyone on your say so, nor because they chose to be offended by something that was only offensive because they chose it to be.

If either you, or she, feels you should, and you both should, apologise to me for you passive aggressiveness, I’ll be open to listening.

I find your post and attitude offensive, are you ready to apologise for that?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> No. I’m not apologising to anyone on your say so, nor because they chose to be offended by something that was only offensive because they chose it to be.
> 
> If either you, or she, feels you should, and you both should, apologise to me for you passive aggressiveness, I’ll be open to listening.


You should not of course apologise on someone's say so. But you should apologise when you've something to apologise for. And frankly if you go back and look at your posts you'll see, I'm sure, that you've not done yourself any favours here. If I was in your shoes I'd say sorry because it's the right thing to do.


----------



## Sue (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> No. I’m not apologising to anyone on your say so, nor because *they chose to be offended by something that was only offensive because they chose it to be.*


Just because you don't know the meaning of a term doesn't mean that meaning doesn't exist. Ten seconds on Google would have shown you that bit in bold just isn't true. (In the blog someone posted, Brewdog themselves seem aware of the UK meaning.)


dessiato said:


> If either you, or she, feels you should, and you both should, apologise to me for you passive aggressiveness, I’ll be open to listening.


dessiato, this really isn't your best look .


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> No. I’m not apologising to anyone on your say so, nor because they chose to be offended by something that was only offensive because they chose it to be.
> 
> If either you, or she, feels you should, and you both should, apologise to me for you passive aggressiveness, I’ll be open to listening.
> 
> I find your post and attitude offensive, are you ready to apologise for that?


FTR I'm not asking for any apology from anyone (to anyone); we're all grown-ups on here...but you're doing that thing again where you're suggesting that another poster has chosen to take offence, rather than them expressing genuine issues with the word. Just because you were not aware of the alternative usage of the word _growler_ does not mean that others' offence is any less real.

It's interesting, as someone else upthread said, that teuchter 's linked corporate blog piece shows that the owners were aware that the word(s) could _have a very different connotation in the UK. _They appeared to be comfortable with their edginess and aware that others in the UK may well see a very different meaning behind the branding.



> As the beer-toting youngsters dashed about with such haste, apparently the phrase ‘rushing the growler’ entered the American lexicon (something that would have a very different connotation in the UK, perhaps).


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Sue said:


> Just because you don't know the meaning of a term doesn't mean that meaning doesn't exist. Ten seconds on Google would have shown you that bit in bold just isn't true. (In the blog someone posted, Brewdog themselves seem aware of the UK meaning.)
> 
> dessiato, this really isn't your best look .


I choose to be offended by this.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

...and other brewers sell growlers without feeling the need to play on this double meaning by printing "Growler Club" in huge letters on the bottle.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

brogdale said:


> All very personal taste and all that...but as a huge fan of SN I really have never taken to the Spitfire...just too 'red' and tastes like other, lesser beers. Agree about the ordinary bitter, though...it's a good session ale and always was. Well, since the 1970s at least; my paternal GF would never touch the stuff in the 50s/60's...


Did anyone else spend a minute squinting at this trying to work out what a paternal girlfriend is, or am I just slow?


Dystopiary said:


> Ok, I'll bite. I don't think I've heard/seen anyone use "twat" to decribe genitals before, even though that's supposedly the origin.


I think Azealia Banks uses it to describe hers in L8R and Esta Noche?[/pointless Azealia Banks trivia]

Anyway, I think we all owe some thanks to comrade teuchter for his tireless work chronicling BrewDog's depravity, I wonder what bit of damning evidence against them he'll turn up next?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Did anyone else spend a minute squinting at this trying to work out what a paternal girlfriend is, or am I just slow?
> 
> I think Azealia Banks uses it to describe hers in L8R and Esta Noche?[/pointless Azealia Banks trivia]
> 
> Anyway, I think we all owe some thanks to comrade teuchter for his tireless work chronicling BrewDog's depravity, I wonder what bit of damning evidence against them he'll turn up next?


Sorry; Grandfather
My bad; I have the rona...more addled than normal.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> ...and other brewers sell growlers without feeling the need to play on this double meaning by printing "Growler Club" in huge letters on the bottle.



...and we know that BrewDog put considerable thought into branding and labelling and the words they emblazon on their products. Why would this be any exception?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> As you know it's a common insult; growler isn't. Growler is not "just" a term for a vag - it's a particularly insulting, misogynist one.


Why? 

What makes it more misogynist than cunt, twat, or minge?


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Sorry; Grandfather
> My bad; I have the rona...more addled than normal.


No worries, I did work it out in the end. And I don't have the rona so no excuse for addledness on my part, hope you get well soon!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Anyway, I think we all owe some thanks to comrade teuchter for his tireless work chronicling BrewDog's depravity, I wonder what bit of damning evidence against them he'll turn up next?


There are it seems no locks on their toilet doors


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Why?
> 
> What makes it more misogynist than cunt, twat, or minge?


Yuk.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Why?
> 
> What makes it more misogynist than cunt, twat, or minge?


Because…


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Why?
> 
> What makes it more misogynist than cunt, twat, or minge?



Calling someone a twat, they can be f or m. But with growler it's applied solely to women (5) with at least implied ugliness


----------



## Sue (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Why?
> 
> What makes it more misogynist than cunt, twat, or minge?





dessiato said:


> Because…


And I'm out.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> You should not of course apologise on someone's say so. But you should apologise when you've something to apologise for. And frankly if you go back and look at your posts you'll see, I'm sure, that you've not done yourself any favours here. If I was in your shoes I'd say sorry because it's the right thing to do.


Of course it isn’t.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Of course it isn’t.


Yeh once again you see what I'm saying and immediately adopt the contrary view


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> View attachment 305300
> Calling someone a twat, they can be f or m. But with growler it's applied solely to women (5) with at least implied ugliness


Oh, so now it’s a physically unattractive woman too. 

Since when? I’ve never heard that and I’m highly intelligent, well read, and worldly wise.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Oh, so now it’s a physically unattractive woman too.
> 
> Since when? I’ve never heard that and I’m highly intelligent, well read, and worldly wise.


I wouldn't trust your hearing as the best arbiter


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Of course it isn’t.


It might well be when one or more posters have called another silly, a beef-witted series offence taker, brainless and bonkers etc. because they called out misogynistic corporate branding.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Oh, so now it’s a physically unattractive woman too.
> 
> Since when? I’ve never heard that and I’m highly intelligent, well read, and worldly wise.


Your own ignorance being the defence of the corporate offenders?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

brogdale said:


> FTR I'm not asking for any apology from anyone (to anyone); we're all grown-ups on here...but you're doing that thing again where you're suggesting that another poster has chosen to take offence, rather than them expressing genuine issues with the word.



Well it doesn’t help that the complainant in question has a record for overreacting to things like this, as long as a donkey’s cock.


----------



## Poot (Jan 10, 2022)

I hate this stuff. The essence of it is that everything is going along nicely, you have male and female friends, we're all having a nice time and then someone (Brewdog in this case) says HA! Look! There's a difference between us! We can use divisive language (because make no mistake, this is divisive language) to appeal to the demographic we want to reach!' 'But what if it's offensive in a dog-whistle way that divides and alienates those we're not targeting?' 'More publicity you mean? Bring it on!'

It's deliberate and cynical and, yes, actually quite offensive. But unless you're deliberately trying NOT to understand that, everyone has probably worked that out.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Well it doesn’t help that the complainant in question has a record for overreacting to things like this, as long as a donkey’s cock.


I tend to admire people who consistently and tenaciously challenge what is wrong with the world.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Poot said:


> I hate this stuff. The essence of it is that everything is going along nicely, you have male and female friends, we're all having a nice time and then someone (Brewdog in this case) says HA! Look! There's a difference between us! We can use divisive language (because make no mistake, this is divisive language) to appeal to the demographic we want to reach!' 'But what if it's offensive in a dog-whistle way that divides and alienates those we're not targeting?' 'More publicity you mean? Bring it on!'
> 
> It's deliberate and cynical and, yes, actually quite offensive. But unless you're deliberately trying NOT to understand that, everyone has probably worked that out.


I now understand that some find the word offensive. At the time I posted the pic I didn't know of this alternative meaning. However, before anyone explained that it was offensive, and why they saw it that way, I was called out on the post.

My position was, and remains, that had it been explained I might well have reacted differently. Indeed I would have apologised for causing this unintended offence. But that is not what happened. 

People cannot and should not assume that because they know something everyone knows that same something. 

This whole discussion would not have happened, nor would it have needed to happen, if it had been explained in the first place.

For taking this position I make no apology.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I now understand that some find the word offensive. At the time I posted the pic I didn't know of this alternative meaning. However, before anyone explained that it was offensive, and why they saw it that way, I was called out on the post.
> 
> My position was, and remains, that had it been explained I might well have reacted differently. Indeed I would have apologised for causing this unintended offence. But that is not what happened.
> 
> ...


I've been called out for things in the past and the first thing I did was google it and then retract/apologise; it's not difficult or complicated.


----------



## Poot (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I now understand that some find the word offensive. At the time I posted the pic I didn't know of this alternative meaning. However, before anyone explained that it was offensive, and why they saw it that way, I was called out on the post.
> 
> My position was, and remains, that had it been explained I might well have reacted differently. Indeed I would have apologised for causing this unintended offence. But that is not what happened.
> 
> ...


Women generally think of themselves as a part of a wider group. It's hurtful when you're told this isn't true, when a difference is pointed out, that's why we take offence. equationgirl is not quicker to take offence than anyone else, she's just much better at pointing it out where the rest of us are equally as hurt but don't say anything. She's also quite brave about 'taking one for the team'. Which I admire, because God knows she puts up with some shit here.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Oh, so now it’s a physically unattractive woman too.
> 
> Since when? I’ve never heard that and I’m highly intelligent, well read, and worldly wise.



It's nice to learn new things and reflect on how they can make you a better person, you say?


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> This whole discussion would not have happened, nor would it have needed to happen, if it had been explained in the first place.
> 
> For taking this position I make no apology.



I'm not sure you would've been interested in an explanation dessiato given as your first reaction was this:



dessiato said:


> Sounds like you’ve found a problem that exists only in your mind.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> I'm not sure you would've been interested in an explanation dessiato given as your first reaction was this:


That would be better put into context. Had the explanation come in the post you fail to quote, which was this, in its entirety:


equationgirl said:


> 'Growler'? Spot Brewdog's misogyny, which you're supporting. Awesome.



   then yes, I’d have been interested.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It's nice to learn new things and reflect on how they can make you a better person, you say?


Precisely.

One of the problems of conversations here is that things people say are on record for years to come. In an ordinary conversation, things said are gone into the ether.  In such an exchange, people can adapt and modify their approach as they go along.  With posts on here, though, they tend to be defended as official statements, so people do seem to find it harder to back down and move on.

For what it’s worth, I’m glad equationgirl  has the strength to point things out.  On this occasion, I _didn’t_ know that growler was a type of beer jug, but I _was_ aware of its misogynistic usages (vagina and unattractive woman).  But that’s by the by. Some people knew and some people didn’t.  It’s an easy matter to respond “jeez, I didn’t know that. Thanks for making me aware”. We live and learn.

Like when my daughter had to warn me that inviting someone to “Netflix and chill” did not mean an evening of TV watching, as I’d assumed.


----------



## Poot (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Precisely.
> 
> One of the problems of conversations here is that things people say are on record for years to come. In an ordinary conversation, things said are gone into the ether.  In such an exchange, people can adapt and modify their approach as they go along.  With posts on here, though, they tend to be defended as official statements, so people do seem to find it harder to back down and move on.
> 
> ...


Indeed. My teenage son had to have a serious chat with me about some of the emojis and how they don't mean what I think they mean even in vegetarian cookery contexts.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Poot said:


> Indeed. My teenage son had to have a serious chat with me about some of the emojis and how they don't mean what I think they mean even in vegetarian cookery contexts.


Yup, I’ve had that pointed out to me too.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Language: you need to take care with it. Who knew?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It's nice to learn new things and reflect on how they can make you a better person, you say?


Pfft


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Like when my daughter had to warn me that inviting someone to “Netflix and chill” did not mean an evening of TV watching, as I’d assumed.


What does it mean?


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> That would be better put into context. Had the explanation come in the post you fail to quote, which was this, in its entirety:
> 
> 
> then yes, I’d have been interested.



If you say so. Your subsequent posts and likes would suggest not, rather a doubling down. But it's not too late to reflect and respond in a way that shows you in a better light. Or not. Your call really.

(I hope you'll forgive my brusqueness, I'm flipping between some rather polemical writing and here)


----------



## fishfinger (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> What does it mean?


Sexytimes.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Poot said:


> Indeed. My teenage son had to have a serious chat with me about some of the emojis and how they don't mean what I think they mean even in vegetarian cookery contexts.



Did he clarify the upside down smiley?
I could never figure that one out.


----------



## xenon (Jan 10, 2022)

Just caught up with this thread. FWIW> I've never heard of the term growler to refer to a bottle. I actually think the pejorative slang usage is more widely known in the UK. I didn't think Bo Selecter made it up either, thought it was around longer than that.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

fishfinger said:


> Sexytimes.


_That_ at least, is potentially useful information.

Cheers.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> What does it mean?


Casual sex. I’d been inviting people for casual sex. I’m glad I was told.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

xenon said:


> Just caught up with this thread. FWIW> I've never heard of the term growler to refer to a bottle. I actually think the pejorative slang usage is more widely known in the UK. I didn't think Bo Selecter made it up either, thought it was around longer than that.


I don’t think Bo Selecter did make it up, it’s been around years.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Casual sex. I’d been inviting people for casual sex. I’m glad I was told.



You’d have found out one way or another.
I didn’t think it was necessarily _casual_ sex…

And now I’m a little paranoid about vegetable emojis too.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Casual sex. I’d been inviting people for casual sex. I’m glad I was told.


Same, I’m sure. I’m now rather disappointed that nobody took me up on it.


----------



## fishfinger (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> _That_ at least, is potentially useful information.
> 
> Cheers.


Now you know the reason for all those refusals wasn't down to your taste in movies


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> No. I’m not apologising to anyone on your say so, nor because they chose to be offended by something that was only offensive because they chose it to be.
> 
> If either you, or she, feels you should, and you both should, apologise to me for you passive aggressiveness, I’ll be open to listening.
> 
> I find your post and attitude offensive, are you ready to apologise for that?


You don’t get to decide whether someone else is offended or not. It’s not your call. How arrogant to claim someone is ‘choosing’ to be offended.  They might not even be offended, but just aware of what’s going on.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Same, I’m sure. I’m now rather disappointed that nobody took me up on it.


“Did you know they were swingers? I mean _he_ looks the type, but she doesn’t!”


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> You’d have found out one way or another.
> I didn’t think it was necessarily _casual_ sex…
> 
> And now I’m a little paranoid about vegetable emojis too.


I’m on a couple of sports club chat groups where the others are significantly younger than me and I frequently can’t decipher the emojis. I’m pretty sure that the aubergine 🍆  has another connotation but damned if I know what it is.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> is cunt not misogynistic on Urban too?



It's an ecumenical matter.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I’m on a couple of sports club chat groups where the others are significantly younger than me and I frequently can’t decipher the emojis. I’m pretty sure that the aubergine 🍆  has another connotation but damned if I know what it is.


Again, sexy times.  Everything is sexytimes.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

Poot said:


> Indeed. My teenage son had to have a serious chat with me about some of the emojis and how they don't mean what I think they mean even in vegetarian cookery contexts.






			
				Patricia Lockwood said:
			
		

> Our mothers could not stop using horny emojis. They used the winking one with its tongue out on our birthdays, they sent us long rows of the spurting three droplets when it rained. We had told them a thousand times, but they never listened - as long as they lived and loved us, as long as they had split themselves open to have us, they would send the peach in peach season.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I’m on a couple of sports club chat groups where the others are significantly younger than me and I frequently can’t decipher the emojis. I’m pretty sure that the aubergine 🍆  has another connotation but damned if I know what it is.


Aubergine is dick.


----------



## xenon (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I’m on a couple of sports club chat groups where the others are significantly younger than me and I frequently can’t decipher the emojis. I’m pretty sure that the aubergine 🍆  has another connotation but damned if I know what it is.



Wanker...

It means wanker doesn't it?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Aubergine is dick.



I think some things change meaning depending whether or not they are on Snapchat too.
Such as the avocado emoji.

Maybe best just avoid Snapchat.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

xenon said:


> Wanker...
> 
> It means wanker doesn't it?



No. It means dick. 

Get with it grandad.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> I think some things change meaning depending whether or not they are on Snapchat too.
> Such as the avocado emoji.
> 
> Maybe best just avoid Snapchat.


See, I don't think I've ever encountered an avocado emoji, suggestive or otherwise, but then I don't use snapchat? Or are you getting your avocados and aubergines mixed up?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> See, I don't think I've ever encountered an avocado emoji, suggestive or otherwise, but then I don't use snapchat? Or are you getting your avocados and aubergines mixed up?



No, definitely avocado.  Which on Snapchat apparently means "the better half in a relationship", whereas generally it just means an avocado.

(I’ve been Googling)


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> No, definitely avocado.  Which on Snapchat apparently means "the better half in a relationship", whereas generally it just means an avocado.


I see. Sort of. Anyway, can't remember if I've posted this here before, but the broccoli emoji proposal is a thing of beauty:
https://unicode.org/L2/L2016/16375-broccoli-emoji.pdf


----------



## xenon (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> No. It means dick.
> 
> Get with it grandad.




I better  leave you young folk to your snapgrams and tockticks then.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> You don’t get to decide whether someone else is offended or not. It’s not your call. How arrogant to claim someone is ‘choosing’ to be offended.  They might not even be offended, but just aware of what’s going on.



No, but he does get to decide on how much weight to give to the offence-taking.

Let's face it, this inconsequential little corner of the internet is primarily populated by uber-leftie, wally-weirdos, who are about as in touch with reality as Star Trek, so shouldn't be taken too seriously.

Also, it's interesting how people change off the boards. I've met loads of Urbs who've used terms like "cow", "bitch" etc., irl but wouldn't dream of doing so on here. This place is largely theoretical!


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

xenon said:


> I better  leave you young folk to your snapgrams and tockticks then.


Tbf, I suppose ✊🍆 or similar would probably be a reasonable way of doing the "wanker" gesture at someone online, should the need ever arise.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Tbf, I suppose ✊🍆 or similar would probably be a reasonable way of doing the "wanker" gesture at someone online, should the need ever arise.



It’s useful because it also means “vegan solidarity”.  Can defuse potential conflict without either party even being aware.


----------



## xenon (Jan 10, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Tbf, I suppose ✊🍆 or similar would probably be a reasonable way of doing the "wanker" gesture at someone online, should the need ever arise.



That's how I'm gonna use it.


I mean, in when would you actually need an aubergine emoji as an aubergine anyway. Or most of them, shaved ice etc, whatever that is...


----------



## MickiQ (Jan 10, 2022)

xenon said:


> I better  leave you young folk to your snapgrams and tockticks then.


Welcome to my world


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

I'm disappointed to learn that the code thing to get the aubergine emoji on here is :eggplant :. No to cultural imperialism, yankee go home!


----------



## Serge Forward (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Let's face it, this inconsequential little corner of the internet is primarily populated by uber-leftie, wally-weirdos, who are about as in touch with reality as Star Trek, so shouldn't be taken too seriously.


You'll not live long and prosper with that attitude


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jan 10, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> You'll not live long and prosper with that attitude



Someone should reverse the polarity of his neutron flow.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> No, but he does get to decide on how much weight to give to the offence-taking.
> 
> Let's face it, this inconsequential little corner of the internet is primarily populated by uber-leftie, wally-weirdos, who are about as in touch with reality as Star Trek, so shouldn't be taken too seriously.
> 
> Also, it's interesting how people change off the boards. I've met loads of Urbs who've used terms like "cow", "bitch" etc., irl but wouldn't dream of doing so on here. This place is largely theoretical!


So, you've been on a wind-up that didn't work, wasn't funny and added little but insults to the discussion and your response is to belittle  the views of other posters?

Not your finest.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> You don’t get to decide whether someone else is offended or not. It’s not your call. How arrogant to claim someone is ‘choosing’ to be offended.  They might not even be offended, but just aware of what’s going on.


I most certainly get the right to apologise. And when I'm wrong, I will.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I most certainly get the right to apologise. And when I'm wrong, I will.


Up to you whether or not you feel the need to apologise, but there can be little doubt that you were wrong to respond in this way:



> Sounds like you’ve found a problem that exists only in your mind.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Up to you whether or not you feel the need to apologise, but there can be little doubt that you were wrong to respond in this way:


As I said earlier, refer to the post to which I was responding. The context here is significant.


----------



## Edie (Jan 10, 2022)

As a woman, if I was with a group of men and there was talk about growlers or getting a growler, a little bit of me would be embarrassed and shrink inside. I would not show this, as that would increase the embarrassment.

Every day sexism like this is cumulative. It’s not outright offensive, no one is outraged, and it wouldn’t occur to most men to stand up against this. But it’s part of the background of life that makes women feel a little quieter around men. I’m very used to that feeling.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

brogdale said:


> So, you've been on a wind-up that didn't work, wasn't funny and added little but insults to the discussion and your response is to belittle  the views of other posters?



An interesting, though factually defective, account of proceedings, Broggers!


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> None taken.  Try reading back a bit.


How patronising. So, apparently as someone with very little social capital, being openly pissed off with a rich-boy company - who happily treat their staff like shit - for being misogynist is not ok because I use the word "twat" as an insult. 

Tell you what I read forward a bit as well and maybe it's just coincidence that the thread is now completely dominated by men. 





edit: dashes added for clarity


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Edie said:


> As a woman, if I was with a group of men and there was talk about growlers or getting a growler, a little bit of me would be embarrassed and shrink inside. I would not show this, as that would increase the embarrassment.
> 
> Every day sexism like this is cumulative. It’s not outright offensive, no one is outraged, and it wouldn’t occur to most men to stand up against this. But it’s part of the background of life that makes women feel a little quieter around men. I’m very used to that feeling.


I have no argument against this, in fact I agree with you.

My point, and I continue to stand by it, is that had it been explained what the offence was, I'd have reacted differently. But it wasn't. At the point of my original post I was not aware of the offensive meaning.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Why?
> 
> What makes it more misogynist than cunt, twat, or minge?


* farts *


----------



## Poot (Jan 10, 2022)

Edie said:


> As a woman, if I was with a group of men and there was talk about growlers or getting a growler, a little bit of me would be embarrassed and shrink inside. I would not show this, as that would increase the embarrassment.
> 
> Every day sexism like this is cumulative. It’s not outright offensive, no one is outraged, and it wouldn’t occur to most men to stand up against this. But it’s part of the background of life that makes women feel a little quieter around men. I’m very used to that feeling.


That explains it, perfectly.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I have no argument against this, in fact I agree with you.
> 
> My point, and I continue to stand by it, is that had it been explained what the offence was, I'd have reacted differently. But it wasn't. At the point of my original post I was not aware of the offensive meaning.



You are now.

...but you just repeatedly double down.

Because?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I most certainly get the right to apologise. And when I'm wrong, I will.


Then shut up and listen to the women on here


Spymaster said:


> No, but he does get to decide on how much weight to give to the offence-taking.
> 
> Let's face it, this inconsequential little corner of the internet is primarily populated by uber-leftie, wally-weirdos, who are about as in touch with reality as Star Trek, so shouldn't be taken too seriously.
> 
> Also, it's interesting how people change off the boards. I've met loads of Urbs who've used terms like "cow", "bitch" etc., irl but wouldn't dream of doing so on here. This place is largely theoretical!


You might as well leave then, both of you. Dinosaurs and trolls are not welcome here.


----------



## Looby (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I have no argument against this, in fact I agree with you.
> 
> My point, and I continue to stand by it, is that had it been explained what the offence was, I'd have reacted differently. But it wasn't. At the point of my original post I was not aware of the offensive meaning.


And it would have taken 30 seconds to find out.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

In fact I’ve just left a FB group cos of the sexism, homophobia and transphobia all over it. You should both go join it, you’ll be in your element: it’s called The Dull Men’s Club


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

Looby said:


> And it would have taken 30 seconds to find out.


Is there a parallel term to mansplaining that means demanding women explain things they cannot be bothered to find for themselves?


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Is there a parallel term to mansplaining that means demanding women explain things they cannot be bothered to find for themselves?



Probably. It's depressingly common.


----------



## Poot (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Is there a parallel term to mansplaining that means demanding women explain things they cannot be bothered to find for themselves?


I don't know. Do you want me to google it for you?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> In fact I’ve just left a FB group …



I bet they’re missing you already 🍆


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I bet they’re missing you already 🍆


They called me a ladyboy 
But come on, you fossils have been here for a long time and have learnt nothing, so perhaps it’s time to move on. There’s probably a Top Gear forum somewhere that you’ll feel more at home in. This shit is getting tired. I want to hang out here without the likes of you. This is supposed to be a sanctuary for many of us and has been feeling less so recently.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> They called me a ladyboy



Too exotic for the dull men’s club.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 10, 2022)

Car threads, cycling threads, vegan/vegetarians threads and beer threads.

Wind ups during the covid years aren't all that. Of course some people are bored and frustrated with the state of things right now, but surely the time spent could be channeled into something less tiresome. Surely trolling urban must get repetitive after a time...


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> They called me a ladyboy ...



If they had called you a _ladybird_ you could have got doubly aggrieved!


----------



## campanula (Jan 10, 2022)

Almost 40 years ago, I was called a 'pig's minge' by a hateful neighbour. This still burns. Fuck off with your shitty misogyny and belittling of the hurt this can cause.

I wouldn't drink Brewdog because the beers are pish...but mostly because boycotting products produced by shits is my best way of showing solidarity for those who have to toil for such unremitting wankers. Clearly, boycotting products, taken to its logical conclusion affects potential employment opportunities (jobs) but so what?  Failing to preserve a capitalist edifice in order to enable workers to earn dubious wages while employed by arsewipes has never caused me to lose a night's sleep.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

campanula said:


> Fuck off with your shitty misogyny and belittling of the hurt this can cause.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> An interesting, though factually defective, account of proceedings, Broggers!


Nah, you've properly pissed on your own chips here.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 10, 2022)

Nice to see the tables turning against the dull tiresome trolls for once!


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 10, 2022)

"I'm definitely right and you're definitely wrong and nothing that happens here matters anyway". Nice.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> "I'm definitely right and you're definitely wrong and nothing that happens here matters anyway".


Hallelujah!


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 10, 2022)

Big kids.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Big kids.


Nah. Little adults.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Teeny tiny ants.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Edie said:


> As a woman, if I was with a group of men and there was talk about growlers or getting a growler, a little bit of me would be embarrassed and shrink inside. I would not show this, as that would increase the embarrassment.
> 
> Every day sexism like this is cumulative. It’s not outright offensive, no one is outraged, and it wouldn’t occur to most men to stand up against this. But it’s part of the background of life that makes women feel a little quieter around men. I’m very used to that feeling.


This deserves a repost, for anyone who might have missed or skim read it.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

...and it's not just the term 'growler' that's the problem on this thread. It's the complacent, entitled dismissal of women's concerns as trivial, wrong or even imaginary.


----------



## editor (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ll just leave this here as a recent example of how seriously the CEO takes his workers:



Who would have thought long term posters here would become cheerleaders for an anti-union brewery with an appalling record on how they treat their workers?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Mrs La rouge talks about when, as a school leaver, she went to work in the Creda factory. She had to do various menial tasks in the office. Every time a woman (any age) had to cross the factory floor, to collect or deliver paperwork or something, the men on the production line would cheer.  As she describes it, it felt a long time self consciously walking the length of the factory floor.  It was embarrassing and demeaning, but not in a threatening way.  But it was every time, and it wasn’t OK.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

editor said:


> Who would have thought long term posters here would become cheerleaders for an anti-union brewery with an appalling record on how they treat their workers?



...and there are alternatives. Brewers who (try to) act more 'progressively' (at least within the confines of being a business in capitalism). These brewers also produce better beer.

There's no defence of BrewDog.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> There's no defence of BrewDog.



Nonsense. They've built a billion pound business from scratch by selling crap beer. That alone is commendable. Then you could look at their genius marketing programs which appeal to many but irritate many others into talking about them!


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> They've built a billion pound business from scratch by selling crap beer. That alone is commendable.



You must be using a different definition of 'commendable' to me then.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Then you could look at their genius marketing programs which appeal to many but irritate many others into talking about them!


You do have a point here, but in order to make it you’d be accepting that they knew what they were doing in the way they chose and marketed the name “growler”.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> but irritate many others into talking about them



...but these "many others" are



Spymaster said:


> uber-leftie, wally-weirdos, who are about as in touch with reality as Star Trek, so shouldn't be taken too seriously.



...so not that much of a "genius marketing program*me"* amirite?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> ...but these "many others" are
> 
> 
> 
> ...so not that much of a genius strategy amirite?



 Of course it is. They talk to other people too. You haven't been reading this thread properly have you?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Of course it is. They talk to other people too. You haven't been reading this thread properly have you?


Look at this door:


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> You must be using a different definition of 'commendable' to me then.



I don't doubt it!


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Of course it is. They talk to other people too. You haven't been reading this thread properly have you?


You can't have it both ways.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> You can't have it both ways.



Explain yourself.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Look at this door:
> View attachment 305332









More like!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I have no argument against this, in fact I agree with you.
> 
> My point, and I continue to stand by it, is that had it been explained what the offence was, I'd have reacted differently. But it wasn't. At the point of my original post I was not aware of the offensive meaning.


You done a Hancock:


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Explain yourself.



Either the people getting offended by Brewdog's marketing are irrelevant* or* they're not irrelevant because getting them talking is a genius marketing programme. 

Both can't be true.

One or the other.

Pick one.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

As a (previously) member of the Chartered Institute of Marketing, I'd have loved this. There's nothing like getting your product talked about. Getting the name out there means people know you and will remember you. Some will try the product some won't but everyone will know your name.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> As a (previously) member of the Chartered Institute of Marketing, I'd have loved this. There's nothing like getting your product talked about. Getting the name out there means people know you and will remember you. Some will try the product some won't but everyone will know your name.


It’s not cool to use edge lord misogyny to do it though, is it?


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> As a (previously) member of the Chartered Institute of Marketing, I'd have loved this. There's nothing like getting your product talked about. Getting the name out there means people know you and will remember you. Some will try the product some won't but everyone will know your name.



So Danny's right then?



danny la rouge said:


> You do have a point here, but in order to make it you’d be accepting that they knew what they were doing in the way they chose and marketed the name “growler”.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Getting the name out there means people know you and will remember you. Some will try the product some won't but everyone will know your name.



worked really well for Gerald Ratner...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

As far as the thread’s concerned, the main thing for people to take away from this is that the line “you’re choosing to be offended” is not a good comeback.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> Either the people getting offended by Brewdog's marketing are irrelevant* or* they're not irrelevant because getting them talking is a genius marketing programme.
> 
> Both can't be true.
> 
> ...



Ah, I see what you're trying to do. 

"Irrelevant" is not a term I've used, but do you think it's only people on U75 who are irritated by BD's marketing?

Do you think it's possible for some opinions to be considered irrelevant by some but not by others?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> As far as the thread’s concerned, the main thing for people to take away from this is that the line “you’re choosing to be offended” is not a good comeback.



You mean as a comeback to “I’m offended”, or to something else?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> You mean as a comeback to “I’m offended”, or to something else?


As a comeback to being told that a term is offensive. To be strictly accurate, equationgirl didn’t say she was offended. She said Brewdog knew the term was misogynist and were playing on that.

Not least because we have a term here for the item: a flagon.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> worked really well for Gerald Ratner...


His mistake was insulting his customer base. That is never a good idea.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> His mistake was insulting his customer base. That is never a good idea.


Women don’t drink beer?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> As a comeback to being told that a term is offensive. To be strictly accurate, equationgirl didn’t say she was offended. She said Brewdog knew the term was misogynist and were playing on that.
> 
> Not least because we have a term here for the item: a flagon.



Well, if she didn’t say she was offended then I agree that “you’re choosing to be offended” isn’t the most apposite retort.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Women don’t drink beer?


Are we beginning to see the effects of the great logic shortage resulting from supply chain....


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Women don’t drink beer?



They do, but they're certainly not BD's primary target market are they.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> They do, but they're certainly not BD's primary target market are they.


Clearly.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> As a comeback to being told that a term is offensive. To be strictly accurate, equationgirl didn’t say she was offended. She said Brewdog knew the term was misogynist and were playing on that.
> 
> Not least because we have a term here for the item: a flagon.


That's the word that i couldn't remember yesterday!
I well remember when Sheps introduced the plastic 4 pint carry-out flagon...happy days...extending the drinking hours especially on the dreaded early Sunday close.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Do you think it's only people on U75 who are irritated by BD's marketing?



Do you?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> Do you?



Aha! I think the penny's dropped for you


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

There’s a pub not very far from where I live called the Tap & Growler.

What would be the good people of Urban’s advice for dealing with such an establishment, which I am assured trades in broad daylight, as well as during night time hours?

(I should add that they have no affiliation with Brewdog, in case that is considered a mitigating factor)


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Aha! I think the penny's dropped for you


Do you think it's only people on U75 who are irritated by BD's marketing?

Well?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> There’s a pub not very far from where I live called the Tap & Growler.
> 
> What would be the good people of Urban’s advice for dealing with such an establishment, which I am assured trades in broad daylight, as well as during night time hours?
> 
> (I should add that they have no affiliation with Brewdog, in case that is considered a mitigating factor)


You’ve not been in. I’d keep that up. It’ll be awful.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> Well?



I'm fine thanks.

Come on, make your killer point!


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> You’ve not been in. I’d keep that up. It’ll be awful.



It’s won some awards from those CAMRA people, and men in checked shirts drink there, so signs are mixed…


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I'm fine thanks.
> 
> Come on, make your killer point!


That it’s not a very good advertising strategy if only people posting on this thread have been annoyed.


----------



## xenon (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> As a (previously) member of the Chartered Institute of Marketing, I'd have loved this. There's nothing like getting your product talked about. Getting the name out there means people know you and will remember you. Some will try the product some won't but everyone will know your name.


What the growler thing?

It's juvenile, nudge nudge sexist crap.

edited but fucked up the quote, meh.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> That it’s not a very good advertising strategy if only people posting on this thread have been annoyed.



Right. Which brings us back to the question ... (do you think it's only ....?)


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Right. Which brings us back to the question ... (do you think it's only ....?)


No, I don’t.  If it was only 14 people in the internet who knew the term it wouldn’t be a problem.


----------



## xenon (Jan 10, 2022)

I actually really want a beer now. I've been trying to get into ale more. Bristol Beer Factory do a few I like. I think they deliver as well...

e2a I've just made an order for delivery. There bar is alright actually but too far for me to bother walking tonight.








						Bristol Beer Factory | Bristol Brewery | Craft Beer Delivery
					

Bristol Beer Factory is the home of independent beer in Bristol. With our brewery on North Street we deliver to Bristol and Beyond. Order online or click and collect from our Tap Room or Pubs.




					www.bristolbeerfactory.co.uk


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

No, of course it's not just people on U75 who find BrewDog's misogynistic crap 'irritating'. 

Which is exactly why dessiato  shouldn't have come out with defensive rubbish he did.

(Nice of you to pull the rug out from under him here Spy )


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

xenon said:


> I actually really want a beer now. I've been trying to get into ale more. Bristol Beer Factory do a few I like. I think they deliver as well...



Just be careful with the delivery specifics.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Women don’t drink beer?


I was referring to the post which mentioned Ratner, as is obvious in my quoted reply.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I was referring to the post which mentioned Ratner, as is obvious in my quoted reply.


However, you lauded Brewdog’s genius strategy of insulting women…


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> No, of course it's not just people on U75 who find BrewDog's misogynistic crap 'irritating'.
> 
> Which is exactly why dessiato  shouldn't have come out with defensive rubbish he did.
> 
> (Nice of you to pull the rug out from under him here Spy )



Well you're conflating the argument you're having with Des, with the one you're having with me. 

Mine is a response to your guff about 'nothing to praise BD for' or somesuch. 

That's clearly wrong. Their provocative marketing has paid off in spades and they've built one of the UK's most successful businesses on it. You can deplore that all you like but you can't deny it.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> However, you lauded Brewdog’s genius strategy of insulting women…


No I didn't. Read what I said:


dessiato said:


> As a (previously) member of the Chartered Institute of Marketing, I'd have loved this. There's nothing like getting your product talked about. Getting the name out there means people know you and will remember you. Some will try the product some won't but everyone will know your name.


Nowhere do I mention Brewdog, nor insulting women. But you can see that, can't you?


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> However, you lauded Brewdog’s genius strategy of insulting women…



...who at the same time completely imagined the strategy in their heads.


----------



## xenon (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Just be careful with the delivery specifics.



Too late.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> .You can deplore that all you like but you can't deny it.


Oh I don't deny it's successful. I deny it's commendable.

Unlike dessiato who denied it existed.

(Oh, and Dess, I'd stop liking Spy's posts if I were you mate. He's just chucked you under the bus.)


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> No I didn't. Read what I said:
> 
> Nowhere do I mention Brewdog, nor insulting women. But you can see that, can't you?


“As a (previously) member of the Chartered Institute of Marketing, I'd have loved *this*”.

“This” being the controversy caused by the way Brewdog selected and marketed the word growler, which they knew to be a misogynistic term for a vagina and an unattractive woman.

You can see that, can’t you?


----------



## xenon (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> No I didn't. Read what I said:
> 
> Nowhere do I mention Brewdog, nor insulting women. But you can see that, can't you?



So what's the "this" to which you refer. Cos not unreasonably, everyone's assumed it was the thing we've all been talking about the last few pages...


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

xenon said:


> So what's the "this" to which you refer. Cos not unreasonably, everyone's assumed it was the thing we've all been talking about the last few pages...


Precisely.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 10, 2022)

I've typed on this thread before that Brewdog had huge success as the first true marketing geniuses at a time when Britain's beer scene was a tad stuck in the mud. What they did - both in the breweries and the advertising - worked to shake up the market. Craft breweries exploded as a result of their impact. 

But they reminded me of Silicon Valley Bois, believing their hype, believing themselves above the law to a degree. They sold bottles stuffed in taxidermied squirrels, they brewed "beer" at increasingly stupid percentages, they forced breweries to believe that "tap rooms" the size of departure lounges were the only way forward. 

They're not the company they used to be. The state of their beer proves that. The desperation of their marketing proves that. The news from the whistleblowers proves that. 

I'm far more likely to drink craft /keg from Cloudwater, or Chain House, or Rivington, than bother with BD. I have been impressed by Cloudwater's recent mission statements about their efforts to improve working practices in the industry. I'm happy that other breweries are facing the right direction. 

"Growler" is, for the UK audience, a word that means something for, I think, an increasingly aging section of the population. It's a rather old fashioned term. As might fit Brewdog, desperate to cling onto the past.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> “As a (previously) member of the Chartered Institute of Marketing, I'd have loved *this*”.
> 
> “This” being the controversy caused by the way Brewdog selected and marketed the word growler, which they knew to be a misogynistic term for a vagina and an unattractive woman.
> 
> You can see that, can’t you?


Remember you're addressing a proud member of the Growler Club.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> (Oh, and Dess, I'd stop liking Spy's posts if I were you mate. He's just chucked you under the bus.)



I haven't chucked him under a bus, I'm just making a completely different argument to his. He's liking my posts because he appreciates the obvious intelligence of my position. As you are beginning to yourself.


----------



## Edie (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Mrs La rouge talks about when, as a school leaver, she went to work in the Creda factory. She had to do various menial tasks in the office. Every time a woman (any age) had to cross the factory floor, to collect or deliver paperwork or something, the men on the production line would cheer.  As she describes it, it felt a long time self consciously walking the length of the factory floor.  It was embarrassing and demeaning, but not in a threatening way.  But it was every time, and it wasn’t OK.


I think your missus is older than me but this gave me flashbacks to the 90s when I was young and ladette culture reigned. As a young woman you had to pretend to be cool with topless models on walls of student rooms, wolf whistles, and lap dancing. I was dancing a bit in the early 2000s and you’d even get girls out with groups of men in clubs. That was excruciating. My mate (who was very beautiful and very clever) danced for Spearmint Rhino on TCR and there used to be corporate bookings that included women. The mind boggles really. Must of been awkward af for them. I’ve not been in a club for a long time now but I’d hope that’s changed.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Remember you're addressing a proud member of the Growler Club.


I'm not a member of the Growler Club. A growler would be rather more than I'd drink at home. I drink Brewdog, and enjoy most of it. I am a shareholder. But I've not hidden that.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

xenon said:


> Too late.



4 pints is exactly the right amount for a school night


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I'm not a member of the Growler Club. A growler would be rather more than I'd drink at home. I drink Brewdog, and enjoy most of it. I am a shareholder. But I've not hidden that.


Apologies; I assumed that membership was a 'privilege' of shareholding.


----------



## locomotive (Jan 10, 2022)

xenon said:


> I actually really want a beer now. I've been trying to get into ale more. Bristol Beer Factory do a few I like. I think they deliver as well...
> 
> e2a I've just made an order for delivery. There bar is alright actually but too far for me to bother walking tonight.
> 
> ...



Their Milk Stout is a winner.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

All this talk of beer isn’t helping my previous resolution to stay off it tonight…


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Edie said:


> As a young woman you had to pretend to be cool with topless models on walls of student rooms, wolf whistles, and lap dancing.



Thinking back to the 90’s I can barely think of any women I knew well who were cool with any of these things.


----------



## Edie (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Thinking back to the 90’s I can barely think of any women I knew well who were cool with any of these things.


Maybe I was in a social situation where you had to be 🤷🏻‍♀️


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Apologies; I assumed that membership was a 'privilege' of shareholding.


The privilege of being a shareholder, in a Brewdog bar, is discounted beer and food. I'm not sure what discount is offered in the Brewdog Hotel.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Edie said:


> Maybe I was in a social situation where you had to be 🤷🏻‍♀️



Fair enough - I was at Uni in Nottingham and mostly knocking about the punk and rock scene.  I don’t think I even heard of Spearmint Rhino til many years later.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Thinking back to the 90’s I can barely think of any women I knew well who were cool with any of these things.


90s/Britpop culture will be the next "Me Too" movement, indeed we've seen it with the lead singer of the Bluetones. 

Things were not....great.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

I'm going to leave the thread. I need to pop out and get some beer.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> 90s/Britpop culture will be the next "Me Too" movement, indeed we've seen it with the lead singer of the Bluetones.
> 
> Things were not....great.



I guess when you’re thinking of how the big bands behaved (or some of the smaller ones), then yeah.  Though surprised more hasn’t come out already.  Don’t think I knew about the guy from the Bluetones.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I'm going to leave the thread. I need to pop out and get some beer.


I recommend Innes and Gunn.


----------



## Edie (Jan 10, 2022)

I didn’t mean sexual exploitation in the music industry really. I meant just _how shit was_ for your common or garden young woman back then. The every dayness. The _Hello Boys_.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I recommend Innes and Gunn.



Eww. I don't.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Edie said:


> I didn’t mean sexual exploitation in the music industry really. I meant just _how shit was_ for your common or garden young woman back then. The every dayness. The _Hello Boys_.


Loaded. Nuts. Men Behaving Badly. etc. yuk.


----------



## Poot (Jan 10, 2022)

Edie said:


> Maybe I was in a social situation where you had to be 🤷🏻‍♀️


Maybe you were in a gender where you had to be, too.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Edie said:


> I didn’t mean sexual exploitation in the music industry really. I meant just _how shit was_ for your common or garden young woman back then. The every dayness. The _Hello Boys_.


It did seem a big backwards step from the “new man” thing of my day.  I remember thinking at the time that the obsession the men in Friends had with strip clubs was embarrassing.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> It did seem a big backwards step from the “new man” thing of my day.  I remember thinking at the time that the obsession the men in Friends had with strip clubs was embarrassing.



Friends is pretty awful upon re-watching. The casual sexism and homophobia is really jarring now. It should have been then too.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Poot said:


> Maybe you were in a gender where you had to be, too.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> Friends is pretty awful upon re-watching. The casual sexism and homophobia is really jarring now. It should have been then too.


It was.


----------



## editor (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I'm not a member of the Growler Club. A growler would be rather more than I'd drink at home. I drink Brewdog, and enjoy most of it. I am a shareholder. But I've not hidden that.


And you don't feel even the slightest discomfort for investing in such a company? Or are you OK with the misogyny, the sexism and the bullying of staff because you like the brand and think it'll give you good value on your investment?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I recommend Innes and Gunn.


{{citation needed}}


----------



## belboid (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Fair enough - I was at Uni in Nottingham and mostly knocking about the punk and rock scene.  I don’t think I even heard of Spearmint Rhino til many years later.


the first UK SR only opened in November 2000.


----------



## Poot (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


>


There are some things that women notice but men don't, mainly because they're not affected by them in the same way. So things I remember about lad culture from the 90s won't be things that men who may have been present will remember.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

belboid said:


> the first UK SR only opened in November 2000.



I never heard of the place til just a few years ago, I just had a vague sense of a late 90’s/noughties thing.  Though obv there were lap dancing places before SN so I’m just conflating things somewhere.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> 4 pints is exactly the right amount for a school night


Fuck that. I have two and it's 50/50 if I'll have to shit at work.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

editor said:


> And you don't feel even the slightest discomfort for investing in such a company? Or are you OK with the misogyny, the sexism and the bullying of staff because you like the brand and think it'll give you good value on your investment?


None at all. The company is changing, and should be encouraged to continue to.


----------



## keybored (Jan 10, 2022)

Teaboy said:


> 5.6% down to 5.2%.
> 
> Its a race to the bottom and any right minded tramp fuel aficionado should be very perturbed.


If you add some methylated spirit not only can you bring it back up to strength but you'll also notice an impressive taste improvement.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 10, 2022)

I guess the bottom line is that Brewdog have managed to get 118 pages of free advertising on a site that doesn't do advertising. 

So more fool us.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Poot said:


> There are some things that women notice but men don't, mainly because they're not affected by them in the same way. So things I remember about lad culture from the 90s won't be things that men who may have been present will remember.



I remember lad culture being plenty annoying enough, but anyway, maybe post #3,500 will help you see why I found that post confusing.


----------



## Sue (Jan 10, 2022)

Edie said:


> I think your missus is older than me but this gave me flashbacks to the 90s when I was young and ladette culture reigned. As a young woman you had to pretend to be cool with topless models on walls of student rooms, wolf whistles, and lap dancing. I was dancing a bit in the early 2000s and you’d even get girls out with groups of men in clubs. That was excruciating. My mate (who was very beautiful and very clever) danced for Spearmint Rhino on TCR and there used to be corporate bookings that included women. The mind boggles really. Must of been awkward af for them. I’ve not been in a club for a long time now but I’d hope that’s changed.


A female friend was working in an IT role in the City mid-90s. The team Christmas do was at a strip club. My friend (the only women in the team were her and the team secretary) suggested they went somewhere else. They refused. She didn't go (the secretary did because she felt it was more than her job was worth to not turn up  ) . She then got so much hassle for being a torn-faced, rabid feminist etc, she ended up leaving her job.

Late 90s, I was working in a technical job and half the team used to go to a strip joint at lunchtime and then spend the afternoon dissecting how old and ugly the strippers were. By the 2000s/2010s, people were a bit more discreet but still a lot of leaving drinks were held in strip joints. (A male colleague was actually greeted with incomprehension when he said he just planned on going to the pub. Obviously a poof eh?)

So as Edie (I think) said upthread, it's the constant drip drip drip of this stuff. And calling it out ends up with you being excluded, laughed at, slagged off, can make your working life completely unbearable. (And let's not even go into the physical sexual harassment, the stalking, all the other bullshit that is even now still not uncommon.)

The stuff on this thread may not be on that kind of level but for those of you who see this all as a big joke or people being oversensitive or whatever else, it's not. It's exhausting and isolating and never ending and utterly depressing. And I had hoped this was somewhere I could escape all that bullshit. But no, seems it's not. 

Now, who's going to be the first to tell me I'm wrong, have misunderstood, it's only a joke, I'm blowing it out of all proportion, their wife is a big fan of Brewdog or whatever other minimising bullshit? Because that's exactly how this stuff works.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> None at all. The company is changing, and should be encouraged to continue to.



Correct. There'll be something that upsets someone whoever you invest with. Brewdog are no worse than any number of outfits and far better than many. Is their marketing any worse than Apple's exploitation of the 3rd world, or Huawei's support of a government engaged in genocide? Of course not; but half of these wallies are typing on Macbooks, and using Huawei phones with their super-dooper cameras!  

The only reason BD are getting flack here is bacause a couple of people took exception to PUNK!


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

This must have crossed the “most batshit thread on Urban ever” Rubicon by this point.


----------



## maomao (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> There’s a pub not very far from where I live called the Tap & Growler.
> 
> What would be the good people of Urban’s advice for dealing with such an establishment, which I am assured trades in broad daylight, as well as during night time hours?


Get pk on the case.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> The only reason BD are getting flack here is bacause a couple of people took exception to PUNK!


No, they’re getting flack because they’re an anti union, bullying workplace who chose a misogynistic double entendre marketing strategy.


----------



## Poot (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> I remember lad culture being plenty annoying enough, but anyway, maybe post #3,500 will help you see why I found that post confusing.


Yes, I read it. But as Sue points out, much of the culture for women in the 90s was about keeping quiet about things you found awkward and humiliating for fear of being labelled a killjoy. So my point stands, and I speak as an ex-ladette. Things aren't always as straightforward as 'they were fine with it.'


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

maomao said:


> Get pk on the case.



Now there’s a name I haven’t heard in a looong time… 

<stares into middle distance>


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Poot said:


> Yes, I read it. But as Sue points out, much of the culture for women in the 90s was about keeping quiet about things you found awkward and humiliating for fear of being labelled a killjoy. So my point stands, and I speak as an ex-ladette. Things aren't always as straightforward as 'they were fine with it.'



Oh ffs. 

I said they _weren’t_ fine with it!


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> No, they’re getting flack because they’re an anti union, bullying workplace who chose a misogynistic double entendre marketing strategy.



No. They've been getting grief here far longer than growler has been an issue. We all pick our battles though, and if that's where people want to plant their flags, good luck to them. It's not hard to find an awful lot of hypocrisy knocking around though.


----------



## Poot (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Oh ffs.
> 
> I said they _weren’t_ fine with it!


Oh, sorry. I have Covid. I should probably back away before I confuse myself and everyone else further.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> View attachment 305202
> 
> I'm sure we can crowbar some misogyny in there if we try _really hard!!!_





dessiato said:


> Sounds like you’ve found a problem that exists only in your mind.
> 
> “A *growler* (US) (/ˈɡraʊlər/) is a glass, ceramic, or stainless steel bottle (or jug) used to transport draft beer.[1]They are commonly sold at breweries and brewpubs as a means to sell take-out craft beer.”





dessiato said:


> I’d never heard it used that way and, prior to this, only knew it as a bottle size. Given the pic shows a growler bottle, to assume that it’s misogynistic seems to be finding a problem that doesn’t actually exist.





Spymaster said:


> It's Broggers and EG, ffs. These two could find a way to take offence at a cotton bud!



Just in case they've forgotten. Here's Spy and Dess's initial reactions to the "genius marketing program"


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> No. They've been getting grief here far longer than growler has been an issue. We all pick our battles though, and if that's where people want to plant their flags, good luck to them. It's not hard to find an awful lot of hypocrisy knocking around though.


I’ve known about the bullying long before the growler howler.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Poot said:


> Oh, sorry. I have Covid. I should probably back away before I confuse myself and everyone else further.



Sorry, I’m being crabby, possibly in part due to whatever non-Covid nonsense I have (many negative LFTs of support etc.).  

Hope you feel better soon.


----------



## weepiper (Jan 10, 2022)

Brewdog have been using misogynist advertising for donkeys' years. Have we all forgotten about the Trashy Blonde label?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I’ve known about the bullying long before the growler howler.



Would you say that the bullying is fouler than the growler howler?


----------



## weepiper (Jan 10, 2022)

Oh look, on this very thread.



King Biscuit Time said:


> Called out here for being a bunch of sexist and homophobic cunts.
> 
> This is from their own marketing material for their 'Trashy Blonde' beer.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Would you say that the bullying is fouler than the growler howler?


For the people subjected to the workplace atmosphere, that’s obviously worse. But contributing to a sneaky culture of misogynist sniggering? Not a great contribution to the life of the nation.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's not hard to find an awful lot of hypocrisy knocking around though.



I can only speak for myself, but I don't laud misogynistic marketing as "commendable" nor have I invested in companies indulging in these campaigns.

In fact I haven't invested in _any_ companies.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> None at all. The company is changing, and should be encouraged to continue to.


Please explain how the company is changing, as they're using the same tired misogynistic marketing campaign basis they did in 2011. Surely if they were enacting meaningful change, it would be right across the company's culture?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

What the hell are shareholders and marketing cunts doing on this board anyway?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Please explain how the company is changing, as they're using the same tired misogynistic marketing campaign basis they did in 2011. Surely if they were enacting meaningful change, it would be right across the company's culture?



The tag teaming was quite ingenious the first time, but do you really think they'll go for it again?


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Please explain how the company is changing, as they're using the same tired misogynistic marketing campaign basis they did in 2011. Surely if they were enacting meaningful change, it would be right across the company's culture?


The company is changing from what existed purely in your imagination to what purely exists in Dess's imagination.

Have I got that right?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> What the hell are shareholders and marketing cunts doing on this board anyway?



You tell 'em!


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> What the hell are shareholders and marketing cunts doing on this board anyway?



Annoying you.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Annoying you.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> I can only speak for myself, but I don't laud misogynistic marketing as "commendable" nor have I invested in companies indulging in these campaigns.



Neither did I _per se, _but as a component of a wider strategy it's certainly been successful.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Neither did I _per se, _but as a component of a wider strategy it's certainly been successful.



You specifically said "commendable.". I'm not disputing its success.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Please explain how the company is changing, as they're using the same tired misogynistic marketing campaign basis they did in 2011. Surely if they were enacting meaningful change, it would be right across the company's culture?


Shall we start with this, which was posted on this thread earlier 

Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Shall we start with this, which was posted on this thread earlier
> 
> Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past


I thought you’d left


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> You specifically said "commendable.". I'm not disputing its success.



I'm pretty sure that I called their success at creating a billion pound business "commendable", not what you're calling their misogynistic marketing. However, that begs the question, does the end justify the means? Obviously not in all cases, but in this case, it's a business which has provided employment to many thousands directly and indirectly, paid a lot of tax, and the associated benefits of that etc, etc,. What's that worth in terms of upsetting a few people with growler in their marketing? Obviously we'll have different opinions on that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2022)

chilango said:


> I can only speak for myself, but I don't laud misogynistic marketing as "commendable" nor have I invested in companies indulging in these campaigns.
> 
> In fact I haven't invested in _any_ companies.


It can only be commendable if they receive a first in class anti-prize


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Annoying you.


Rather successfully I think.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Obviously we'll have different opinions on that.


LOL.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I thought you’d left
> View attachment 305383


I’ve come back.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Rather successfully I think.


Trolling is against the FAQs btw


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Shall we start with this, which was posted on this thread earlier
> 
> Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past


I mean, technically December is in the past, but…


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Trolling is against the FAQs btw


Then you’d better stop doing it, hadn’t you?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I’ve come back.


Please turn around go to the Hooters next door. And stay there.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Please turn around go to the Hooters next door. And stay there.


The beer isn’t that good in Hooters.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Then you’d better stop doing it, hadn’t you?


Erm. I’m not the one trolling this thread and many others.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> The beer isn’t that good in Hooters.


Get in the sea then


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 10, 2022)

It's good that there are different _opinions_ on this now instead of women simply being wrong about it all, I guess.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Erm. I’m not the one trolling this thread and many others.


Oh dear, here we go again. You made yourself look quite the prat last time.


----------



## chilango (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Shall we start with this, which was posted on this thread earlier
> 
> Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past



Enjoying extra HR and responding to the charges of misogyny with denial?

"Brewdog's chairman and deputy chairwoman, Allan Leighton and Blythe Jack, said they didn't "subscribe to the characterisation"."

That's not particularly convincing "change" to my mind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It's good that there are different _opinions_ on this now instead of women simply being wrong about it all, I guess.


Baby steps, fozzie


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Get in the sea then


Ah, the instruction to kill myself, again. Are you sure that it’s a good idea to say things like this?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Oh dear, here we go again. You made yourself look quite the prat last time.


Last time what?


----------



## weepiper (Jan 10, 2022)

"_Bosses_ say management issues are in the past" 🤣


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Ah, the instruction to kill myself, again. Are you sure that it’s a good idea to say things like this?


I thought you could swim?


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Last time what?


I’m not going to engage with you again. You advocated my committing suicide in the past. Im putting you on ignore. I’m not being abused that way, by you, again.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I’m not going to engage with you again. You advocated my committing suicide in the past. Im putting you on ignore. I’m not being abused that way, by you, again.


I did not do that at all and you know it. Stop playing the victim.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I’m not going to engage with you again. You advocated my committing suicide in the past. Im putting you on ignore. I’m not being abused that way, by you, again.



Ah come on! Take him on. He's easy


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

Get in the sea = fuck right off NOT what Des claims


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Ah come on! Take him on. He's easy


Fight! Fight! Fight!


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Ah come on! Take him on. He's easy


Not when he starts telling people suffering from severe depression to kill themselves. As he has me in the past. I’d rather just walk away from him. He’s not worth my time or trouble.


----------



## Sue (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Ah, the instruction to kill myself, again. Are you sure that it’s a good idea to say things like this?


I can't help but feel you need to brush up the modern vernacular. 🤣


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Ah come on! Take him on. He's easy



Take him with you. This has gone on far too long. We’re so very sick and tired of your shit and the constant trolling


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Get in the sea = fuck right off NOT what Des claims


Close but no cigar What is the origin of the expression "Get in the sea"?


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> All this talk of beer isn’t helping my previous resolution to stay off it tonight…


each to their own, as someone who likes beer I find I can discuss misogynistic marketing for overhyped IPAs till the cows come home without it making me the slightest bit thirsty.


chilango said:


> Loaded. Nuts. Men Behaving Badly. etc. yuk.


bUt ThE iRoNy!


S☼I said:


> Fuck that. I have two and it's 50/50 if I'll have to shit at work.


I mean, as long as you're not shitting yourself at work, that's a plus, surely? Beats working, right?


dessiato said:


> Shall we start with this, which was posted on this thread earlier
> 
> Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past


I see weepiper beat me to it, but just to say it one more time: Bosses say management issues are in the past.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 10, 2022)

Sue said:


> I can't help but feel you need to brush up the modern vernacular. 🤣


I refer you to my post, immediately above yours.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I refer you to my post, immediately above yours.


The lies?


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

_Sharks say swimmers getting bitten issues are in the past._


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Not when he starts telling people suffering from severe depression to kill themselves. As he has me in the past.



I know. He does it a lot, usually when he's pissed.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Sue said:


> I can't help but feel you need to brush up the modern vernacular. 🤣



Well,  I mean, sure, _you_ may not find it offensive...

_<just c&p something in here as appropriate>_


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I know. He does it a lot, usually when he's pissed.


I’m not having this. Reported for trolling


----------



## Sue (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I refer you to my post, immediately above yours.







__





						Urban Dictionary: Get in the Sea
					

When something is so unbelievably stupid, the only response is to demand its devolution to an amphibious state.




					www.urbandictionary.com
				




(Seriously, Googling terms you're not familiar with is the work of seconds and could save you getting into all kinds of bother.)


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I’m not having this. Reported for trolling



Seriously? After what you've been doing here? 

GTF!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Seriously? After what you've been doing here?
> 
> GTF!


I’m completely sincere. Absolutely fed up to the back teeth with this shit. It’s tedious, depressing and stressful. Just go somewhere else and dick about please


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I’m completely sincere. Absolutely fed up to the back teeth with this shit. It’s tedious, depressing and stressful. Just go somewhere else and dick about please



Kiss my arse, clown man.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Ok, can we have a very quick headcount of who hasn't been offended yet?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 10, 2022)

Well I think it's time to unfollow this thread for a bit.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Well I think it's time to unfollow this thread for a bit.


Ok, I'll mark you off.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 10, 2022)

Apparently nothing here matters, but despite this I am sorry to hear dessiato is having a tough time of it and I hope things get better for him in 2022. If it helps “Get In The Sea” does not mean what he seems to think it does.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Ok, can we have a very quick headcount of who hasn't been offended yet?


This most recent argument started when 2 posters took offence when Brewdog's misogynist, edge lord marketing was properly called out.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> You tell 'em!


I don't know why you've decided this is all just one big jolly jape, it's getting very tedious.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Apparently nothing here matters, but despite this I am sorry to hear dessiato is having a tough time of it and I hope things get better for him in 2022. If it helps “Get In The Sea” does not mean what he seems to think it does.



Liked for the middle part.
Not sure about the nihilism just yet.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I don't know why you've decided this is all just one big jolly jape, it's getting very tedious.



Well, this really has to take the biscuit!


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 10, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Shall we start with this, which was posted on this thread earlier
> 
> Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past Brewdog: Bosses say management issues are in the past


Are you serious? You're believing a press release from the management - which has not changed one person by the way - which was so bad and engendered such a culture of bullying that hundreds of past and present employers complained publicly about it in an open letter? 

Tell me what they've changed specifically, to change the management and the culture.

Because they've made it clear it's the employees' fault for 'not understanding the high performance environment'.

Because they've blocked all attempts by Unite the Union to engage in meaningful talks.

Because they've been taken to tribunal for disability discrimination, and lost.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Liked for the middle part.
> Not sure about the nihilism just yet.


Nothing really matters
--bohemian rhapsody


----------



## belboid (Jan 10, 2022)

Didn’t realise dess was Thangam  Debbonaire.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Because they've been taken to tribunal for disability discrimination, and lost.



A wierd decision that, tbf. And also it was 2/1 so one of the tribunal judges held _for_ them.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> A wierd decision that, tbf. And also it was 2/1 so one of the tribunal judges held _for_ them.


Um, no, it wasn't a weird decision. They point blank refused to make very basic reasonable adjustments that did not very much money, and were found to have discriminated against the employee. What's weird about it, exactly?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> A wierd decision that, tbf. And also it was 2/1 so one of the tribunal judges held _for_ them.



You can't win against the Energizer bunny.  It's like trying to outrun death.  It just keeps coming.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Um, no, it wasn't a weird decision. They point blank refused to make very basic reasonable adjustments that did not very much money, and were found to have discriminated against the employee. What's weird about it, exactly?



They didn't refuse to make changes.  As I recall the complainant was a guy who worked on a production line who lost his eyesight (not work related). BD got occupational health people in to suggest changes that were not accepted, and also offered the guy other jobs in the firm. 

Have you read the case?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> They didn't refuse to make changes.  As I recall the complainant was a guy who worked on a production line who lost his eyesight (not work related). BD got occupational health people in to suggest changes that were not accepted, and also offered the guy other jobs in the firm.
> 
> Have you read the case?


Reasonable adjustments don't only apply to disabilities that result from work. I suggest you back and read the posts about the case earlier in the thread.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Reasonable adjustments don't only apply to disabilities that result from work. I suggest you back and read the posts about the case earlier in the thread.



Of course not. I suggest you do the same since you don't seem to remember losing this argument the last time we had it. 

Yes, they were found against, and yes, they could have done better, but it was not as straightforward as you make out, as evidenced by the decision being split.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Of course not. I suggest you do the same since you don't seem to remember losing this argument the last time we had it.
> 
> Yes, they were found against, and yes, they could have done better, but it was not as straightforward as you make out, as evidenced by the decision being split.


I didn't lose the argument last time. You're just deluding yourself because your ego won't allow you to accept a woman knows better than you with your edgelord ways.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I didn't lose the argument last time. You're just deluding yourself because your ego won't allow you to accept a woman knows better than you with your edgelord ways.



<coughs>

Actually ignore me - that card comes with a 10 page cooldown period but you're good to go again.  Seems like barely minutes ago.


----------



## belboid (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Of course not. I suggest you do the same since you don't seem to remember losing this argument the last time we had it.
> 
> Yes, they were found against, and yes, they could have done better, but it was not as straightforward as you make out, as evidenced by the decision being split.


Your memory is seriously faulty, all you seem to recall is the managerial response.   They were found guilty and fined substantially with the judges making various strongly condemnatory comments. 

Judge Hosie added that Brewdog “should feel more than discomfort at the lack of awareness evidenced of their legal obligations to consider reasonable adjustments for an employee they recognised as disabled”.

Brewdog to payout £12,000 after sacking worker who faced turning blind


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Femsplain : White Knight combo - I was _not_ expecting that.


----------



## weepiper (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Femsplain : White Knight combo - I was _not_ expecting that.


You're being a dick. You could not do that?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

belboid said:


> Your memory is seriously faulty, all you seem to recall is the managerial response.   They were found guilty and fined substantially with the judges making various strongly condemnatory comments.
> 
> Judge Hosie added that Brewdog “should feel more than discomfort at the lack of awareness evidenced of their legal obligations to consider reasonable adjustments for an employee they recognised as disabled”.
> 
> Brewdog to payout £12,000 after sacking worker who faced turning blind



Of course they were found against. Nobody is denying that. But the case wasn't as cut and dried as the newspaper report makes out. Again, there were 3 judges on the tribunal and the decision was 2-1, so there was an element of doubt.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Femsplain : White Knight combo - I was _not_ expecting that.


* farts *


----------



## belboid (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Of course they were found against. Nobody is denying that. But the case wasn't as cut and dried as the newspaper report makes out. Again, there were 3 judges on the tribunal and the decision was 2-1, so there was an element of doubt.


They were utterly slated and the single dissenting judge made no remarks (despite being entitled to). They were ignorant of the law and used incompetent staff. 

It’s a bit rich, to say the least, to claim both that they were rightly found guilty, but that they might not have been, so that’s okay.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

weepiper said:


> You're being a dick. You could not do that?



Insofar as you are being a twat, I guess so.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

belboid said:


> It’s a bit rich, to say the least, to claim both that they were rightly found guilty, but that they might not have been, so that’s okay.



It certainly would be if anyone was saying that.


----------



## belboid (Jan 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It certainly would be if anyone was saying that.


Wtf else does ‘there was an element of doubt’ mean?

Away to fuck your crap bosses mouthpiece


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

belboid said:


> Wtf else does ‘there was an element of doubt’ mean?



It means that one of the judges disgreed with the other two. That's an element of doubt, silly!


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

belboid said:


> Away to fuck your crap bosses mouthpiece


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball you are being a dick with your interjections and commentary. It's neither witty nor amusing and weepiper is not being a twat.


----------



## locomotive (Jan 10, 2022)

Can we all agree that BrewDog are not punks?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 10, 2022)

locomotive said:


> Can we all agree that BrewDog are not punks?


Doubtful.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 10, 2022)

locomotive said:


> Can we all agree that BrewDog are not punks?


Nobody cares about that.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 8ball you are being a dick with your interjections and commentary. It's neither witty nor amusing and weepiper is not being a twat.



Did someone say I was here to amuse you?
And really, haven't you had enough attention already?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Nobody cares about that.



I think maybe one person on the thread does.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

locomotive said:


> Can we all agree that BrewDog are not punks?


I think they might be hippies


----------



## Yossarian (Jan 10, 2022)

locomotive said:


> punks



◼️ 🟩🟩⬛🟩


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Did someone say I was here to amuse you?
> And really, haven't you had enough attention already?


You seem to be trying to be funny about something


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> You seem to be trying to be funny about something



No, you seem to be attempting something like that.  I really wouldn't bother if I was you.  
There's probably a browser plug-in you can get to do it for you.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 10, 2022)




----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> No, you seem to be attempting something like that.  I really wouldn't bother if I was you.
> There's probably a browser plug-in you can get to do it for you.


Another gag that only you understand


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Another gag that only you understand


Things have been moving in that direction for a while, can't deny that.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Did someone say I was here to amuse you?
> And really, haven't you had enough attention already?


I think that if you're not trying to be amusing, but are rather trying to put forward a serious and coherent argument about something or other, then you also don't seem to be doing a terribly good job of that, so maybe give it a break for it?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> I think that if you're not trying to be amusing, but are rather trying to put forward a serious and coherent argument about something or other, then you also don't seem to be doing a terribly good job of that, so maybe give it a break for it?



Sometimes its almost like there's someone on the other end of the line.
Some things are hard to say in certain contexts, or even impossible to say, and sometimes it's too late to say them anyway.

Yeah, maybe a nice long break.  How long, do you reckon?


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> Sometimes its almost like there's someone on the other end of the line.
> Some things are hard to say in certain contexts, or even impossible to say, and sometimes it's too late to say them anyway.
> 
> Yeah, maybe a nice long break.  How long, do you reckon?


I dunno, I wasn't suggesting you should leave the forums or anything, just that your posts on this particular thread today didn't seem to be acheiving much? Maybe just give this thread a break till some time next week when people have gone back to discussing the merits of bitter vs IPAs or something?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> I dunno, I wasn't suggesting you should leave the forums or anything, just that your posts on this particular thread today didn't seem to be acheiving much? Maybe just give this thread a break till some time next week when people have gone back to discussing the merits of bitter vs IPAs or something?





Full disclosure:  I've been mostly drinking lager and wine recently.



Spoiler: waffle



I wasn't really expecting to achieve anything.  Initially the thread was kind of about Brewdog for me, then it became interesting seeing how people were using Brewdog (which comes with an interesting set of conflicting values) as a prism to filter ideas about themselves and other people, as well as their defenses against recognising the process and the need it was satisfying.   

Then it intensified a bit just now and it became grimly interesting just watching the group forces play out.  Mostly with a mounting sense of despair.  Scripts talking to scripts.  Scripts talking past scripts.  Swapping little packets of dopamine.  Round and round and round.  Keep repping, keep farming.  Keep re-gurgitating fleas and depositing them in each other's fur.


It starts to get to me every once in a while and I'll back out for a few months.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball I do not know what is going on with you but you're being seriously annoying and disruptive.

And yeah, this is all about the attention for me. Not.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 8ball I do not know what is going on with you but you're being seriously annoying and disruptive.
> 
> And yeah, this is all about the attention for me. Not.



That couldn't have been more perfect.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> That couldn't have been more perfect.


Are you sure you're not a Spymaster sockpuppet?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 10, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Are you sure you're not a Spymaster sockpuppet?



The fact that he's brighter than you, doesn't _necessarily_ mean that he's me


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

Something is rotten here, I have to say. We've got long term posters who I know are not racist posting racist memes. We've got long term posters here who recently only seem to be here to upset people. and we've got long term posters refusing to acknowledge their own ignorance.
It's as if there's a global pandemic that brings out the worst in us all. 
'Calm down lads, we've all had a pandemic!"


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Something is rotten here, I have to say. We've got long term posters who I know are not racist posting racist memes. We've got long term posters here who recently only seem to be here to upset people. and we've got long term posters refusing to acknowledge their own ignorance.
> It's as if there's a global pandemic that brings out the worst in us all.
> 'Calm down lads, we've all had a pandemic!"



But we've always had two out of those three things, and two of them were you a lot of the time. 

Who's been at the racist memes?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 10, 2022)

8ball said:


> But we've always had two out of those three things, and two of them were you a lot of the time.
> 
> Who's been at the racist memes?


It’s never been me doing any of those things  
Have a look at the bandwidth thread


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

Well, I really can't be arsed digging up examples this late in the game.
Possibly just rushing to re-post in the other case.


----------



## NoXion (Jan 10, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> I guess the bottom line is that Brewdog have managed to get 118 pages of free advertising on a site that doesn't do advertising.
> 
> So more fool us.



The logical conclusion of this line of thinking is that any discussion of any company is "free advertising". Which would naturally lead to complete paralysis, since you can't criticise or organise against a company without mentioning it. So union organisers should just shut up, right?

No. It's garbage reasoning that leads to absurd conclusions, because the premise is flawed. I'm sure the scumbags in the advertising industry would love to have people believe that, since the only recourse for critics would be silence. But that doesn't make it so.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 10, 2022)

V. true.

Time for a little break for me.  
Everyone have fun and stay safe.


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 11, 2022)

I've been reading the recent pages of this thread and have been inclined to agree with the posters who have been denouncing the 'Growler Club' flagons as mysognistic. I was certainly aware of the slang usage to mean vagina (though was unaware of the ugly woman meaning) but didn't realise that it was a US word for flagon. When I realised it was I immediately thought that must be Brewdog's defence if they were ever accused of sexism/mysogyny (in a similar manner to how the Sex Pistols won their obscenity court case). I'm pretty sure they called it that because of the vagina meaning, but it would be very difficult to prove.

I wasn't sure that I thought it was very offensive but I am a man. Once female posters started saying they felt it offensive I thought it best to take their word for it. Why use or defend Brewdog's use of a word that some people find offensive?

But then I spoke to my misses (who I think is definitely a liberated and independent woman) about this and her response was very different. She told me that although some women might find it offensive, there are other women (including herself) who enjoy, "filthy Viz-style humour" (her words), and the world would be a poorer place without it. She then reeled off several slang terms for vagina (at least one of which I'd not heard before!).

I asked her what about those women who feel it is offensive. She paused and then said that although she could imagine contexts in which the use of 'growler' would definitely be offensive, in the case of the Brewdog flagon (especially considering the double-meaning) it really wasn't that big a deal. And that she'd be disappointed if they were forced to change the name because of claims of mysogyny.

It's all left me rather confused as to what I actually think about it. I don't want to offend women by using sexist/mysognistic terms. But what about the women who don't want "Viz-style humour" to be cancelled?


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

I think there's a couple of issues that have provoked ire on this thread, and neither of them centre on "Viz style humour being cancelled".

The first was the denial and dismissal of misogyny when it was raised. That the woman pointing it out was imagining it or inventing misogyny when it wasn't. This reaction in itself was a strong example of the drip drip drip everyday sexism that female posters have pointed out. Again. And again.

Then when it became clear beyond doubt that the branding was misogynistic, the same posters (instead of holding their hands up and apologising for their first reaction) doubled-down and instead started celebrating the misogynism as "commendable" and as a "genius marketing program". One of these posters is a shareholder in the company who feels no discomfort in this strategy.

The water is further muddied because it remains unclear how much of this stance is genuine, how much is a wind up  and how much is a vehicle to get sly digs in over ongoing personal beefs.

It's been a pretty unpleasant look for those posters regardless imo.

None of this adds up to Finbarr Saunders getting no platformed though.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> I think there's a couple of issues that have provoked ire on this thread, and neither of them centre on "Viz style humour being cancelled".
> 
> The first was the denial and dismissal of misogyny when it was raised. That the woman pointing it out was imagining it or inventing misogyny when it wasn't. This reaction in itself was a strong example of the drip drip drip everyday sexism that female posters have pointed out. Again. And again.
> 
> ...


Ffs. People disagree with you. Get over it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> I've been reading the recent pages of this thread and have been inclined to agree with the posters who have been denouncing the 'Growler Club' flagons as mysognistic. I was certainly aware of the slang usage to mean vagina (though was unaware of the ugly woman meaning) but didn't realise that it was a US word for flagon. When I realised it was I immediately thought that must be Brewdog's defence if they were ever accused of sexism/mysogyny (in a similar manner to how the Sex Pistols won their obscenity court case). I'm pretty sure they called it that because of the vagina meaning, but it would be very difficult to prove.
> 
> I wasn't sure that I thought it was very offensive but I am a man. Once female posters started saying they felt it offensive I thought it best to take their word for it. Why use or defend Brewdog's use of a word that some people find offensive?
> 
> ...


serve your partner several of brewdog's offerings and see what she feels then


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> I think there's a couple of issues that have provoked ire on this thread, and neither of them centre on "Viz style humour being cancelled".
> 
> The first was the denial and dismissal of misogyny when it was raised. That the woman pointing it out was imagining it or inventing misogyny when it wasn't. This reaction in itself was a strong example of the drip drip drip everyday sexism that female posters have pointed out. Again. And again.
> 
> ...



Yeah, fair enough with regards to this thread. I agree with you.

My misses hasn't read the thread. Me and her were simply discussing Brewdog's use of the word "growler' (albeit a discussion that arose because I'd been reading the thread).

I'm not interested in personal beefs between posters, what interested me was whether or not "growler" is offensive, and if it is, how offensive? Is it mysognistic or not?

Clearly, some women find it offensive but others find it amusing.


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 11, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> serve your partner several of brewdog's offerings and see what she feels then



She doesn't like beer. But when she's pissed she has a filthy tongue!

Or had that also flown over my head?!


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> She doesn't like beer.



They do a gin called Lone Wolf, which is actually very good indeed, and sold in quite a few non-BD pubs and bars. Also a vodka (Rogue Wave) which I haven't tried but vodka's vodka if you're going to mix it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> They do a gin called Lone Wolf, which is actually very good indeed, and sold in quite a few non-BD pubs and bars. Also a vodka (Rogue Wave) which I haven't tried but vodka's vodka if you're going to mix it.


oh dear me no, might as well say gin's gin if you're going to mix it. all _i _can say is your tastebuds must have been damaged by that rotgut you drink if you think vodka's vodka if you're going to mix it


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> oh dear me no, might as well say gin's gin if you're going to mix it.



Gin is most often mixed with tonic which does/can/should compliment the taste of the booze, but if you're going to drown a vodka in coke or lemonade it doesn't much matter what you use.


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Ffs. People disagree with you. Get over it.


Spymaster, I'm genuinely quite curious about how you feel about this thread. Were you interested in the subject matter or just on a windup? Any thoughts  on how it's all panned out?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Gin is most often mixed with tonic which does/can/should compliment the taste of the booze, but if you're going to drown a vodka in coke or lemonade it doesn't much matter what you use.


if you're going to drown a vodka in a mixer then you're some sort of barbarian


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> They do a gin called Lone Wolf, which is actually very good indeed, and sold in quite a few non-BD pubs and bars. Also a vodka (Rogue Wave) which I haven't tried but vodka's vodka if you're going to mix it.



Well, she likes gin and vodka but why support Brewdog when other gins and vodkas are available at the same or cheaper price?

The beer thing is a little more tricky for me because I do enjoy the taste of several of the Brewdog beers. I'm a convert to the 'hip', American style IPA because I find I like the taste even when the alcohol content is 5% or more (with real English beer I often found that I didn't like the strong ones so much, indeed one of my favourites had a ridiculously low alcohol content; it tasted great but it didn't get you drunk!).

I prefer to not buy Brewdog but if I'm not near an Aldi or a Lidl the only alternatives are more expensive. If I can afford to I'll buy something else, but on occasions I have (and probably will again) buy Brewdog.

My absolute favourite is made by Beavertown Brewery. I hope nobody is going to tell me that they're wankers too!


----------



## seeformiles (Jan 11, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> For what it’s worth, I’m glad equationgirl  has the strength to point things out.  On this occasion, I _didn’t_ know that growler was a type of beer jug, but I _was_ aware of its misogynistic usages (vagina and unattractive woman).  But that’s by the by. Some people knew and some people didn’t.  It’s an easy matter to respond “jeez, I didn’t know that. Thanks for making me aware”. We live and learn.



I first found out about the US usage a few years ago from my craft beer loving American pen pal and had to inform him of the slang meaning over here in case he’s talking to other transatlantic pals. I was aware of the “vagina” meaning but not the “ugly woman” one. Every day’s a school day 🙂


----------



## Chz (Jan 11, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> My absolute favourite is made by Beavertown Brewery. I hope nobody is going to tell me that they're wankers too!


No, they're just owned by Heineken. Who are wankers. (and I can sympathise, I rather like Neck Oil too)


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> Well, she likes gin and vodka but why support Brewdog when other gins and vodkas are available at the same or cheaper price?
> 
> The beer thing is a little more tricky for me because I do enjoy the taste of several of the Brewdog beers. I'm a convert to the 'hip', American style IPA because I find I like the taste even when the alcohol content is 5% or more (with real English beer I often found that I didn't like the strong ones so much, indeed one of my favourites had a ridiculously low alcohol content; it tasted great but it didn't get you drunk!).
> 
> ...



The Beavertown ones are ok, and are becoming more widely available,. I have a vague recollection of some Union dispute there though.

We're lucky in Reading to have Double-Barrelled (who are sound and make excellent beer, and during the lockdown would do weekly doorstep pickup and dropoff of my growler filled with freshly brewed beer), Wild Weather, Phantom and others who cater for the new "craft beer" genre (and beyond IPAs with Goses, Sours, Stouts, tablebeers, saisons etc etc etc) and make some stunning beers in a wide range of styles and strength. Sure, they're pricy but I'd rather have one stunning beer than two mediocre ones.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> Spymaster, I'm genuinely quite curious about how you feel about this thread. Were you interested in the subject matter or just on a windup? Any thoughts  on how it's all panned out?



Hi Sue. Well this thread has been around for years and has always been polarised, with both "sides" winding each other up, but it only occasionally gets as fractious as it's become in recent days. This website is largely populated by people with extreme views and always has been. In fact it used to be way worse/better, take your pick. Those with non-far left views are decried as liberals or tories, anyone questioning of gender issues is transphobic, and anyone who doesn't get up in arms about "growler" is a misogynist. There's little middle ground, so those of us who occupy that area (and are prepared to poke our heads above the parapet) get this kind of response every now and again. It goes with the territory! There are many women (mine and Peter's wives included) who really don't hold the opinions of some of those here. There are women HERE who don't hold the opinions of some of the others here! Many of the views held by people on this website are niche ones that I (along with millions of others) don't share, and will say so sometimes. I always have done.

As far as how I think it's panned out; as expected.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 11, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> Yeah, fair enough with regards to this thread. I agree with you.
> 
> My misses hasn't read the thread. Me and her were simply discussing Brewdog's use of the word "growler' (albeit a discussion that arose because I'd been reading the thread).
> 
> ...


As ever, there’s a context, and Brewdog has previous in the edgelord arena.

If your partner and her mates set up a brewery coop and sell Growler ale or even Fanny Juice, nobody here would mind.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> if you're going to drown a vodka in a mixer then you're some sort of barbarian



See? We can agree occasionally.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Hi Sue. Well this thread has been around for years and has always been polarised, with both "sides" winding each other up, but it only occasionally gets as fractious as it's become in recent days. This website is largely populated by people with extreme views and always has been. In fact it used to be way worse/better, take your pick. Those with non-far left views are decried as liberals or tories, anyone questioning of gender issues is transphobic, and anyone who doesn't get up in arms about "growler" is a misogynist. There's little middle ground so those of us who occupy that area (who are prepared to poke our heads above the parapet) get this kind of response every now and again. It goes with the territory! There are many women (mine and Peter's wives included) who really don't hold the opinions of some of those here. There are women HERE who don't hold the opinions of some of the others here! Many of the views held by people on this website are niche ones that I (along with millions of others) don't share, and will say so sometimes. I always have done.
> 
> As far as how I think it's panned out; as expected.


turned out niche again


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> See? We can agree occasionally.


it'd be easier to agree with you if you didn't flit to the opposing side of almost every debate once you've seen which way i steer


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 11, 2022)

Peter Painter - and Brewdog are an anti union company with a notorious bullying culture.


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

To butcher Groucho Marx:

“Brewdog may look like misogynists and talk like misogynists but don't let that fool you. They really are misogynists”


----------



## brogdale (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> There's little middle ground, so those of us who occupy that area (and are prepared to poke our heads above the parapet) get this kind of response every now and again. It goes with the territory!  Many of the views held by people on this website are niche ones that I (along with millions of others) don't share, and will say so sometimes. I always have done.
> 
> As far as how I think it's panned out; as expected.


Apologies for butting in to your convo, but I couldn't help thinking how reasonable your 'middle ground' position sounded and what a service you perform in countering the 'extreme', 'niche' group-think.

Until I remembered how you described those who perceived misogyny in Brewdog's "Growler" branding...



> silly, a beef-witted series offence taker, brainless and bonkers


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> To butcher Groucho Marx:
> 
> “Brewdog may look like misogynists and talk like misogynists but don't let that fool you. They really are misogynists”


Elegantly put.


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Apologies for butting in to your convo, but I couldn't help thinking how reasonable your 'middle ground' position sounded and what a service you perform in countering the 'extreme', 'niche' group-think.
> 
> Until I remembered how you described those who perceived misogyny in Brewdog's "Growler" branding...



...as opposed to his 'middle ground' take on the mysognistic branding which he described as "genius" and "commendable".

C'mon Spymaster . I know we don't share political positions and will disagree on much, but on this one you really did pick a side, that of Brewdog. So, drop the sensible middle-ground schtick, own your views.


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Elegantly put.



There's a quote from (a) Marx for everything.


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 11, 2022)

locomotive said:


> Can we all agree that BrewDog are not punks?





danny la rouge said:


> Peter Painter - and Brewdog are an anti union company with a notorious bullying culture.


& they use the word "Punk" which is incredibly bad!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 11, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> & they use the word "Punk" which is incredibly bad!


I personally don’t give a fuck about that.


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Hi Sue. Well this thread has been around for years and has always been polarised, with both "sides" winding each other up, but it only occasionally gets as fractious as it's become in recent days. This website is largely populated by people with extreme views and always has been. In fact it used to be way worse/better, take your pick. Those with non-far left views are decried as liberals or tories, anyone questioning of gender issues is transphobic, and anyone who doesn't get up in arms about "growler" is a misogynist. There's little middle ground, so those of us who occupy that area (and are prepared to poke our heads above the parapet) get this kind of response every now and again. It goes with the territory! There are many women (mine and Peter's wives included) who really don't hold the opinions of some of those here. There are women HERE who don't hold the opinions of some of the others here! Many of the views held by people on this website are niche ones that I (along with millions of others) don't share, and will say so sometimes. I always have done.
> 
> As far as how I think it's panned out; as expected.


I see. It's interesting to see how you perceive yourself and others. Having different views is fine but sometimes, maybe just _sometimes_, it would be more productive to listen a bit more to other people's views and take some of their points on board? I mean there's got to be some kind of irony in a middle-aged man dismissing a woman who points out some pretty obvious misogyny and then using his wife's views as some kind of 'A-ha! Not all women have the same views!' get out of jail free card. 

A lot of women don't post in here because of the level of debate and the way that debate is conducted. Threads like this illustrate that depressingly well.

As to it panning out as expected -- what about helping threads pan out a bit better in future? Maybe treating people a bit more respectfully would be a start?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> ...as opposed his 'middle ground' take in the mysognistic branding which he described as "genius" and "commendable".



Well I didn't really. I described the building of a large business on the back of selling crap beer as commendable, and their marketing strategy in general as genius. As to its misogynistic nature, see my response above. What's considered misogynistic _here _isn't necessarily so by a broader audience, and if it is, people consider it with varying degrees of importance. Again, people pick their positions and fight them. Nothing wrong with that at all but don't expect everyone to agree.  



> C'mon Spymaster . I know we don't share political positions and will disagree on much, but on this one you really did pick a side, that of Brewdog. So, drop the sensible middle-ground schtick, own your views.



Well again, as above, those sides were picked about 8 years ago. Occasionally other factors will get rolled into the debate/fight, such as political differences, and that's what's happened here. Sorry if you disapprove


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 11, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> If your partner and her mates set up a brewery coop and sell Growler ale or even Fanny Juice, nobody here would mind.



I'm glad she's not reading this because that might give her ideas. Reckon she'd find the idea of selling pints of her and her mates' fanny juice quite hilarious!



danny la rouge said:


> Peter Painter - and Brewdog are an anti union company with a notorious bullying culture.



Yeah. I do my best not to buy any but I do love the taste (and price when it's on special offer). When I do indulge I have the same guilty feeling I get when I eat meat (which I also love the taste of).


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> I see. It's interesting to see how you perceive yourself and others. Having different views is fine but sometimes, maybe just _sometimes_, it would be more productive to listen a bit more to other people's views and take some of their points on board? I mean there's got to be some kind of irony in a middle-aged man dismissing a woman who points out some pretty obvious misogyny and then using his wife's views as some kind of 'A-ha! Not all women have the same views!' get out of jail free card.
> 
> A lot of women don't post in here because of the level of debate and the way that debate is conducted. Threads like this illustrate that depressingly well.
> 
> As to it panning out as expected -- what about helping threads pan out a bit better in future? Maybe treating people a bit more respectfully would be a start?



It was me who first mentioned my wife's views. I really wasn't meaning to dismiss the views of other women. Hope you didn't think I was.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> I mean there's got to be some kind of irony in a middle-aged man dismissing a woman who points out some pretty obvious misogyny and then using his wife's views as some kind of 'A-ha! Not all women have the same views!'



 I wondered who was going to bring that up and was studiously avoiding doing so until Peter did this morning. It's not a get out of jail free card and wasn't used as such (not least because I don't feel in the least bit imprisoned here), but it's an entirely appropriate point to make that the views expressed here aren't globally shared.



> As to it panning out as expected -- what about helping threads pan out a bit better in future? Maybe treating people a bit more respectfully would be a start?



I generally try to treat people with the respect they afford me. You'll have seen comments of mine here that you'll consider rude or sharp, but they're usually extensions of other beefs, or (partially) tongue-in-cheek. There are plenty of posters on this thread who disagree with me, that I've been perfectly respectful to. Yourself included.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 11, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 8ball you are being a dick with your interjections and commentary. It's neither witty nor amusing and weepiper is not being a twat.


I've missed most of this thread and others have covered most of the salient points but just wanted to say ^this.
weepiper is certainly not being a twat, and neither was EG being "sensitive" (or whatever other shitty term some people seem to want to use).


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Well I didn't really. I described the building of a large business on the back of selling crap beer as commendable, and their marketing strategy in general as genius. As to its misogynistic nature, see my response above. What's considered misogynistic _here _isn't necessarily so by a broader audience, and if it is, people consider it with varying degrees of importance. Again, people pick their positions and fight them. Nothing wrong with that at all but don't expect everyone to agree.
> 
> 
> 
> Well again, as above, those sides were picked about 8 years ago. Occasionally other factors will get rolled into the debate/fight, such as political differences, and that's what's happened here. Sorry if you disapprove



Yeah, which, is one thing. But, to repeat, what drew my ire was:



chilango said:


> ...and it's not just the term 'growler' that's the problem on this thread. It's the complacent, entitled dismissal of women's concerns as trivial, wrong or even imaginary.



Which, as yet, has not been apologized for, acknowledged or even considered by you, dessiato, 8ball  etc. This kind of thing is having a shit impact on the boards.


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I wondered who was going to bring that up and was studiously avoiding doing so until Peter did this morning. It's not a get out of jail free card and wasn't used as such (not least because I don't feel in the least bit imprisoned here), but it's an entirely appropriate point to make that the views expressed here aren't globally shared.


Well quite. It's also entirely appropriate to point out that much as you see yourself as 'occupying the middle ground', I don't think that's specially true either.  And maybe you're a poor judge of what's misogynistic and what isn't so listening to people who may have a firmer grasp on it would be a reasonable idea? (Before you bring up your wife, a lot of this is about context. So reading this thread may well garner a different response to just saying 'is x misogynistic?')



Spymaster said:


> I generally try to treat people with the respect they afford me. You'll have seen comments of mine here that you'll consider rude or sharp, but they're usually extensions of other beefs, or (partially) tongue-in-cheek.


That may be true but I'm not really interested in 'extensions of other beefs' and it does not help the level of debate. All it means is that people end up in entrenched positions which they or may not really hold and then end up defending them to the death. Not only does it screw up the debate, it's also extremely tedious.



Spymaster said:


> There are plenty of posters on this thread who disagree with me that I've been perfectly respectful to. Yourself included.


TBH, I think you've mainly ignored the points/posts I've made. I'm not sure that really counts as respectful.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> Yeah, which, is one thing. But, to repeat, what drew my ire was:
> 
> 
> 
> Which, as yet, has not been apologized for, acknowledged or even considered by you, dessiato, 8ball  etc. This kind of thing is having a shit impact on the boards.


Plus one.


----------



## seeformiles (Jan 11, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> As ever, there’s a context, and Brewdog has previous in the edgelord arena.
> 
> If your partner and her mates set up a brewery coop and sell Growler ale or even Fanny Juice, nobody here would mind.



Any of those names would put me off buying the product. I will admit to having a pretty puerile sense of humour but giving a beer or wine such a name smacks of an attempt to hide a poor quality product behind a “joke” that even 12 year old boys would tire of pretty quickly. Brewdog thinks it’s edgy but it’s a bit like your teacher in the 1980s using the word “Wally” in a piss poor attempt to get down with the kids. (See also the contemporary and equally cringeworthy “cockwomble” that I’ve heard lecturer friends bandy about in search of a laugh - mind you, I’d lay money on that soon being another BD product 🙂)


----------



## brogdale (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I wondered who was going to bring that up and was studiously avoiding doing so until Peter did this morning. It's not a get out of jail free card and wasn't used as such (not least because I don't feel in the least bit imprisoned here), but it's an entirely appropriate point to make that the views expressed here aren't globally shared.
> 
> 
> 
> I generally try to treat people with the respect they afford me. You'll have seen comments of mine here that you'll consider rude or sharp, but they're usually extensions of other beefs, or (partially) tongue-in-cheek. There are plenty of posters on this thread who disagree with me, that I've been perfectly respectful to. Yourself included.


This is how you responded to equationgirl ; you called her...



> silly, a beef-witted series offence taker, brainless and bonkers


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> Yeah, which, is one thing. But, to repeat, what drew my ire was:
> 
> 
> 
> Which, as yet, has not been apologized for, acknowledged or even considered by you, dessiato, 8ball  etc. This kind of thing is having a shit impact on the boards.



I'm not really too concerned about drawing your ire or anybody else's, and I do consider the use of "growler" in this case, rather trivial, especially compared to the crimes of other corporates who don't draw the same U75 opprobrium because they make nice smartphones or computers.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> This is how you responded to equationgirl ; you called her...



That was aimed as much at you as EG. Let's face it, that description describes a pretty broad church of the posters on this thread.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Hi Sue. Well this thread has been around for years and has always been polarised, with both "sides" winding each other up, but it only occasionally gets as fractious as it's become in recent days. This website is largely populated by people with extreme views and always has been. In fact it used to be way worse/better, take your pick. Those with non-far left views are decried as liberals or tories, anyone questioning of gender issues is transphobic, and anyone who doesn't get up in arms about "growler" is a misogynist. There's little middle ground, so those of us who occupy that area (and are prepared to poke our heads above the parapet) get this kind of response every now and again. It goes with the territory! There are many women (mine and Peter's wives included) who really don't hold the opinions of some of those here. There are women HERE who don't hold the opinions of some of the others here! Many of the views held by people on this website are niche ones that I (along with millions of others) don't share, and will say so sometimes. I always have done.
> 
> As far as how I think it's panned out; as expected.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> That was aimed as much at you as EG. Let's face it, that description describes a pretty broad church of the posters on this thread.


Oh yes, that makes it all fine, then.


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> This is how you responded to equationgirl ; you called her...





> silly, a beef-witted series offence taker, brainless and bonkers



Yes Spymaster, this is pretty bad. Do you stand by it? You also know that saying a woman is silly, overreacting, stupid and mad (to translate the above) pretty much ticks all the boxes that are commonly-used to put women down? You missed out 'time of the month' but good job on the others.

ETA You know there's no shame in saying 'sorry, yes, I went too far' or some variation of it? Much more shame the other way.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Oh yes, that makes it all fine, then.



You're learning, Broggers.


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I'm not really too concerned about drawing your ire or anybody else's



Clearly...but it is making multiple threads unpleasant and driving long-term posters away. It also makes you look like a bit of a wanker (which I'm assured isn't actually the case ). I'm just not sure what you gain from posting like this is worth the cost to others. But that's for you to consider, or not. 



Spymaster said:


> and I do consider the use of "growler" in this case, rather trivial



On a personal level I would have tended to agree. I have, and use, a growler and refer to it as such. 

I think BrewDog's use of it is shitty though and would not dismiss those who find it more problematic. Posters have eloquently described how these "rather trivial" things mount up as part of the drip effect of everyday sexism. I'm inclined to listen to them rather than dismiss them on this.



Spymaster said:


> especially compared to the crimes of other corporates who don't draw the same U75 opprobrium because they make nice smartphones or computers.



Name me a corporate, any corporate, and I'll happily denounce them. As would many of the contributors on this thread.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> You're learning, Broggers.


True enough; that's why I like posting here...there's a majority of well-informed, well-intentioned folk who post in good faith on topics...so much to gain.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> Clearly...but it is making multiple threads unpleasant and driving long-term posters away. It also makes you look like a bit of a wanker (which I'm assured isn't actually the case ).



Why would anyone be driven away by what I post? I've put forward my genuine opinions and people are free to argue with or ignore me (plenty do).


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Why would anyone be driven away by what I post? I've put forward my genuine opinions and people are free to argue with or ignore me (plenty do).


Well the general nastiness on this thread has certainly made me wonder why I'm posting in here. Not all down to you but you're certainly quite a big part of it. That's why I've been posting today -- reflecting on how we all act in here is the only way we're going to improve things.

(I'm aware some people may not think this is nasty or that things needs to be improved. I suspect those folk may be the ones who need to reflect the most.)


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Why would anyone be driven away by what I post? I've put forward my genuine opinions and people are free to argue with or ignore me (plenty do).



I came pretty close to be being driven away by the way that you (and others tbh) have been posting across multiple threads. 

I don't expect an echo chamber and have always been one of the minority who have been ok with the robust nature of P&P for example. 

...but the blokey bantz, the casual sexism, transphobia etc. that came with the nature of the way a loud minority have been posting, along with the frankly quite nasty spats that arose (and you have been directly involved in two that I can think of off the top of my head), well, that's not what I come here for. There's enough of that shit everywhere else.  At the same time a lot of posters who I enjoyed chatting with, arguing with, reading etc. have left. Some explicitly because of the casual sexism, transphobia etc.

So, yeah, I stopped posting for a bit and was (and maybe still am tbh) close to being driven away by the sort of posts that you (and others) have made on this thread in past few days.

Maybe I'm a snowflake or whatever, but life's too short y'know?


----------



## ddraig (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> I came pretty close to be being driven away by the way that you (and others tbh) have been posting across multiple threads.
> 
> I don't expect an echo chamber and have always been one of the minority who have been ok with the robust nature of P&P for example.
> 
> ...


This, so much this, same here
They get their kicks from trolling and putting others down, it's largely their MO and very disruptive, even when you have them on ignore!


----------



## pesh (Jan 11, 2022)

entire thread is as toxic as the beer.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> Well the general nastiness on this thread has certainly made me wonder why I'm posting in here. Not all down to you but you're certainly quite a big part of it. That's why I've been posting today -- reflecting on how we all act in here is the only way we're going to improve things.
> 
> (I'm aware some people may not think this is nasty or that things needs to be improved. I suspect those folk may be the ones who need to reflect the most.)



It can most certainly get nasty, but it's very much a two way street. One of the nastiest posters on here is actually Orang Utan (see his silly passive aggressive pics on here and his frequent pissed-up bullying of dessiato ), but he gets a pass because he toes the majority line. I have political differences with many here which frequently put me in people's sights for a bunfight. That's probably shaped my posting style and I can't do much about that. And there are plenty of other posters here who have more scraps than me!


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It can most certainly get nasty, but it's very much a two way street. One of the nastiest posters on here is actually Orang Utan (see his silly passive aggressive pics on here and his frequent pissed-up bullying of dessiato ), but he gets a pass because he toes the majority line. I have political differences with many here which frequently put me in people's sights for a bunfight. That's probably shaped my posting style and I can't do much about that. And there are plenty of other posters here who have more scraps than me!


anyone up north will have more scraps than you, they're free from the chippy (or a pound from m&s in london)


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> I came pretty close to be being driven away by the way that you (and others tbh) have been posting across multiple threads.
> 
> I don't expect an echo chamber and have always been one of the minority who have been ok with the robust nature of P&P for example.
> 
> ...



I think the threads you're referring to are this one and the car one in transport which is a pure troll and was set up as such. No idea about the transphobia as I now put all trans threads on immediate ignore. 

The scrap on this thread has been a pile-on (not complaining at all) that has attracted posters who had never posted on it before at all.  That's the nature of the boards though. 

I hope you don't stop posting.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It can most certainly get nasty, but it's very much a two way street. One of the nastiest posters on here is actually Orang Utan (see his silly passive aggressive pics on here and his frequent pissed-up bullying of dessiato ), but he gets a pass because he toes the majority line. I have political differences with many here which frequently put me in people's sights for a bunfight. That's probably shaped my posting style and I can't do much about that. And there are plenty of other posters here who have more scraps than me!


Do other posters refer to the "broad church of the posters on this thread" as _silly, a beef-witted series offence taker, brainless and bonkers?_

And if they did I wonder what it might say about them?


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It can most certainly get nasty, but it's very much a two way street. One of the nastiest posters on here is actually Orang Utan (see his silly passive aggressive pics on here and his frequent pissed-up bullying of dessiato ), but he gets a pass because he toes the majority line. I have political differences with many here which frequently put me in people's sights for a bunfight. That's probably shaped my posting style and I can't do much about that. And there are plenty of other posters here who have more scraps than me!


Spymaster, this is what children say -- 'It wasn't me, it was him! He's worse than me! He did it first!' Can you at least own your part in this and maybe acknowledge that you could do better? Possibly even admit that you've overstepped quite badly in a few places? And try and get away from the personal stuff and focus on the issues being discussed? 

As I said, it's not just you but I'd have a lot more respect for you if you took some responsibility for yourself.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> I came pretty close to be being driven away by the way that you (and others tbh) have been posting across multiple threads.
> 
> I don't expect an echo chamber and have always been one of the minority who have been ok with the robust nature of P&P for example.
> 
> ...


i'll say one thing for Spymaster, he hasn't posted on the terf trans threads. there's some really vicious bile posted on those from the likes of co-op, really vile, which makes the worst of spymaster's arguments look like a storm in a teacup. and it's threads like those that have seen so many posters leave, from people like frogwoman who've fortunately returned to loads who basically were done with this site from those shitfests. not all of them were regular p&pers, people like CRI were driven away on those threads. now, spymaster is forthright and loud and i suppose can be seen as aggressive. but while in my first urban incarnation i thought he was a very nasty piece of work - cunty si - i saw in my second (and continuing) urban incarnation that he's almost always on a wind up. don't get sucked in and watch how it goes, true popcorn moments many of them.


----------



## editor (Jan 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> Well the general nastiness on this thread has certainly made me wonder why I'm posting in here. Not all down to you but you're certainly quite a big part of it. That's why I've been posting today -- reflecting on how we all act in here is the only way we're going to improve things.
> 
> (I'm aware some people may not think this is nasty or that things needs to be improved. I suspect those folk may be the ones who need to reflect the most.)


I certainly think things need to change, It's not the only time recently where casual misogyny has been celebrated and used as a way to score points and troll.   These people need to take a long fucking hard look at themselves.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> Spymaster, this is what children say -- 'It wasn't me, it was him! He's worse than me! He did it first!'
> Can you at least own your part in this and maybe acknowledge that you could do better?



It's misunderstandings like this that cause the problems, I think. I'm not suggesting "he did it first" for a minute. I'm fully aware that I can be aggressive and am capable of starting a fight in an empty room. Of course I could "do better" in some cases but as I said, I respond and argue with the respect that I feel is due to those I'm dealing with, and that's often low due to previous interactions.



> Possibly even admit that you've overstepped quite badly in a few places?



Oh, for sure. I don't think I have here though.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I do consider the use of "growler" in this case, rather trivial, especially compared to the crimes of other corporates who don't draw the same U75 opprobrium because they make nice smartphones or computers.


two things - this is a thread about brewdog so this sort of whataboutery doesn't bolster your case, and second, it's not all about you, sometimes what other people feel trumps your feelings. yeh in the general scheme of things - and if it was the only thing brewdog do that was objectionable it would be trivial and it would be swiftly put right by any responsible company. but as this thread documents, brewdog are wrong uns on so many levels, from the overhopped nature of their  beer to their appropriation of a radical tradition to their casual sexism. there's a pattern of behaviour from the company of which yes this is but one example and perhaps not their most egregious but nonetheless it's something which ought to be taken seriously and not joked about as some finbarr saunders thing.


----------



## souljacker (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> The Beavertown ones are ok, and are becoming more widely available,. I have a vague recollection of some Union dispute there though.
> 
> We're lucky in Reading to have Double-Barrelled (who are sound and make excellent beer, and during the lockdown would do weekly doorstep pickup and dropoff of my growler filled with freshly brewed beer), Wild Weather, Phantom and others who cater for the new "craft beer" genre (and beyond IPAs with Goses, Sours, Stouts, tablebeers, saisons etc etc etc) and make some stunning beers in a wide range of styles and strength. Sure, they're pricy but I'd rather have one stunning beer than two mediocre ones.



And Loddon Brewery! We also have the very good Rebellion brewery out in Marlow and West Berkshire Brewery over near Newbury. Sadly, West Berks also have a record of being shits to their staff so they can fuck off. Shame though as their Rengade lager and Good Old Boy bitter are lovely.


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's misunderstandings like this that cause problems. I'm not suggesting "he did it first" for a minute.



Okay, so that's not what you were doing here...? Because it kind of sounds like you were: 



Spymaster said:


> It can most certainly get nasty, but it's very much a two way street. One of the nastiest posters on here is actually Orang Utan (see his silly passive aggressive pics on here and his frequent pissed-up bullying of dessiato ), but he gets a pass because he toes the majority line.  I have political differences with many here which frequently put me in people's sights for a bunfight. That's probably shaped my posting style and I can't do much about that. And there are plenty of other posters here who have more scraps than me!



As to this:



Spymaster said:


> Oh, for sure. I don't think I have here though.



I think you certainly did here:



> silly, a beef-witted series offence taker, brainless and bonkers



As I said above:



Sue said:


> Yes Spymaster, this is pretty bad. Do you stand by it? You also know that saying a woman is silly, overreacting, stupid and mad (to translate the above) pretty much ticks all the boxes that are commonly-used to put women down? You missed out 'time of the month' but good job on the others.
> 
> ETA You know there's no shame in saying 'sorry, yes, I went too far' or some variation of it? Much more shame the other way.


You think this is okay or is this one of those cases where you let personal beef get in the way of the discussion?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 11, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> i'll say one thing for Spymaster, he hasn't posted on the terf trans threads. there's some really vicious bile posted on those from the likes of co-op, really vile, which makes the worst of spymaster's arguments look like a storm in a teacup. and it's threads like those that have seen so many posters leave, from people like frogwoman who've fortunately returned to loads who basically were done with this site from those shitfests. not all of them were regular p&pers, people like CRI were driven away on those threads. now, spymaster is forthright and loud and i suppose can be seen as aggressive. but while in my first urban incarnation i thought he was a very nasty piece of work - cunty si - i saw in my second (and continuing) urban incarnation that he's almost always on a wind up. don't get sucked in and watch how it goes, true popcorn moments many of them.


Coming from you I'll take careful note of what you say...but...there are times when wind-up merchants (who are, by definition, looking to entertain themselves) impact on the willingness of others to contribute and help others with viewpoints. Calling other posters names in order to close down their input requires challenge.


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I think the threads you're referring to are this one and the car one in transport which is a pure troll and was set up as such. No idea about the transphobia as I now put all trans threads on immediate ignore.
> 
> The scrap on this thread has been a pile-on (not complaining at all) that has attracted posters who had never posted on it before at all.  That's the nature of the boards though.
> 
> I hope you don't stop posting.


Yeah the car one is an obvious example. Easy to ignore a single thread here and there if stuff stays there, but it doesn't.

I don't recall you being a part of any particular transphobia, so please don't think I'm accusing you of it. I'm not. In fact, it's not my intention to single you out beyond you're the one who I'm talking with right now!

Like I said, I feel there's a number of posters and increasing number of threads that this stuff is seeping out of.

I'm probably not expressing myself very well as it's hard to put a finger on and I don't want the focus to be on singling out individual posters. But, for me, there's been a palpable shift in atmosphere here in the last couple of years. Maybe, this stuff was always here. I suspect it was. But it's no longer drowned out by the volume of other stuff.

But, yeah, I don't have a beef with you. I know we often disagree, but I'm cool with that. But you are contributing to an atmosphere that is on the brink of driving me away urban (Is this becoming a flounce post? ). I don't expect apologies or agreement, but I would hope that you, and others, and me, can reflect a little on this stuff.

...and, yes, you are getting piled on in this thread. Rightly so!


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 11, 2022)

chilango said:


> Clearly...but it is making multiple threads unpleasant and driving long-term posters away. It also makes you look like a bit of a wanker (which I'm assured isn't actually the case ). I'm just not sure what you gain from posting like this is worth the cost to others. But that's for you to consider, or not.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’d add to this that I genuinely like dessiato and particularly enjoying reading of his ongoing struggle with personal safety.  I’m sorry to hear of his health struggles, and wish him all the best.  But it was his dismissal of the views of women here, and the manner of that dismissal, that I didn’t think should go without challenge.

It’s an easy matter to just say “I hadn’t heard that meaning before. Jings, I wonder if Brewdog are aware!”, or something of that nature.  And if women here seem to you to be “serial offence takers”, it might be worth considering whether - perhaps - another explanation is that they’re always having the challenge a growing laddish culture here that you hadn’t noticed.  Maybe they seem fed up because they are. (Rather than faking it for fun, as was implied).

Like others, I have the impression things here are slipping in unhealthy directions.

It’s unfortunate when things become personalised, though, because we’ve known each other now for a very long time.  So we ought to be able to say “mate, you haven’t thought that through”, without the response being to go on the attack.  This is what I was getting at in an earlier post and probably didn’t express clearly enough.

So as I ramble my way to a Covid-addled non-conclusion, why don’t we treat each other as if their concerns are genuinely held, and be grownup about comradely criticism?


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Coming from you I'll take careful note of what you say...but...there are times when wind-up merchants (who are, by definition, looking to entertain themselves) impact on the willingness of others to contribute and help others with viewpoints. Calling other posters names in order to close down their input requires challenge.


This absolutely. As I said, lots of women don't venture in here (or if they do, they often won't post) because of the level of debate and the way it's conducted. Now maybe some folk don't really care about that. but I think that's pretty shameful tbh.


----------



## pbsmooth (Jan 11, 2022)

true... or you could just put Spymaster on ignore like I did within days of looking on this forum


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> Okay, so that's not what you were doing here...? Because it kind of sounds like you were:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I disagree on all points, Sue.



> Sue said:
> 
> 
> > As I said above:
> ...



I don't know about "ok", it's just the way forums work.


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

souljacker said:


> And Loddon Brewery! We also have the very good Rebellion brewery out in Marlow and West Berkshire Brewery over near Newbury. Sadly, West Berks also have a record of being shits to their staff so they can fuck off. Shame though as their Rengade lager and Good Old Boy bitter are lovely.



..and Binghams (Space Hopper ) and Siren and Dolphin in Woodley... Its a golden age of beer in Reading.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 11, 2022)

There seems to be a lot a whataboutism coming from spymaster. Whatabout Orang Utan he's nasty; whatabout other companies they are shit too.
This thread is discussing brewdog company that is 

sexist An Open Letter to BrewDog, Punks With Purpose 
able-ist Former BrewDog worker wins eyesight payout after losing job 
anti-union as shown in earlier posts in this thread.

So without playing 'whatabout' do you agree with the sexist, able-ist views of brewdog, the company being discussed here? And that calling someone, who you don't know a "as silly, a beef-witted series offence taker, brainless and bonkers?" is bullying?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> There seems to be a lot a whataboutism coming from spymaster. Whatabout Orang Utan he's nasty; whatabout other companies they are shit too.
> This thread is discussing brewdog company that is
> 
> sexist An Open Letter to BrewDog, Punks With Purpose
> ...


perhaps you should tag Spymaster


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> true... or you could just put Spymaster on ignore like I did within days of looking on this forum



I've no idea who you are, but I salute you, sir!


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I don't know about "ok", it's just the way forums work.


No, it's the way this forum is working at the moment and what multiple posters are saying they don't like. It doesn't have to work like this.

And if you're not sure that what you said was 'okay', do something about it.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> So without playing 'whatabout' do you agree with the sexist, able-ist views of brewdog, the company being discussed here? And that calling someone, who you don't know a "as silly, a beef-witted series offence taker, brainless and bonkers?" is bullying?



I assume you're asking me.

"Whataboutery" is a cliché on these boards used by people who are struggling in an argument to deflect legitimate charges of hypocrisy, so I reject that.

As far as the sexist nature of their marketing is concerned I think they've likely overstepped a few times. "Pink beer for girls" springs immediately to mind, but I understand the marketing and it's been highly successful. "Growler" doesn't bother me at all.

The 'beef witted offence takers' to Broggers and others was probably a trifle OTT.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> No, it's the way this forum is working at the moment and what multiple posters are saying they don't like. It doesn't have to work like this.



It's _always_ worked like that, Sue. 

Some posters are allies of others while some can't stand each other. That informs the way they post.

That'll never change.


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> The 'beef witted offence takers' to Broggers and others was probably a trifle OTT.


Almost there! Now it wasn't aimed primarily at brogdale, was it? Now might be a great time to say this (maybe even a 'sorry' if we're getting completely carried away ) to the person it primarily was aimed at.


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's _always_ worked like that, Sue.
> 
> Some posters are allies of others while some can't stand each other. That informs the way they post.
> 
> That'll never change.


Well quite a few people seem to feel it's not always worked exactly as it is now. And they certainly aren't liking how it is now. And you know we can all always aspire to do better and be better!


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's _always_ worked like that, Sue.
> 
> Some posters are allies of others while some can't stand each other. That informs the way they post.
> 
> That'll never change.



Until it does. Some things stay the same only by changing. 

We can never post in the same thread twice. Because it's not the same thread, and we're not the same poster.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> "Growler" doesn't bother me at all.



therefore (you seem to be saying) it shouldn't bother anyone else, especially women, and you have the right to tell them they are wrong and throw insults at them if it does bother them?

hmm.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> Almost there! Now it wasn't aimed primarily at brogdale, was it? Now might be a great time to say this (maybe even a 'sorry' if we're getting completely carried away ) to the person it primarily was aimed at.



It was actually primarily to Broggers (I think I even quoted him") but you're suggesting it was aimed at equationgirl which it partially was, so in her case only I'll retract the "beef witted" bit.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> therefore (you seem to be saying) it shouldn't bother anyone else, especially women, and you have the right to tell them they are wrong and throw insults at them if it does bother them?



Nope. I'm saying I don't share their concern, am aware that many others don't either, and have no time for that particular part of their position on the subject. The fight ensued from there.


----------



## belboid (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's _always_ worked like that, Sue.
> 
> Some posters are allies of others while some can't stand each other. That informs the way they post.
> 
> That'll never change.


Put your massive ego away, learn to say ‘sorry’ and to stfu, you prat.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 11, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> What the hell are shareholders and marketing cunts doing on this board anyway?


It's kind of difficult to avoid. If you have any kind of pension the funds are likely being invested in such a way. Which means you're doing it by proxy if not directly.


----------



## Edie (Jan 11, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> i'll say one thing for Spymaster, he hasn't posted on the terf trans threads. there's some really vicious bile posted on those from the likes of co-op, really vile, which makes the worst of spymaster's arguments look like a storm in a teacup. and it's threads like those that have seen so many posters leave, from people like frogwoman who've fortunately returned to loads who basically were done with this site from those shitfests. not all of them were regular p&pers, people like CRI were driven away on those threads. now, spymaster is forthright and loud and i suppose can be seen as aggressive. but while in my first urban incarnation i thought he was a very nasty piece of work - cunty si - i saw in my second (and continuing) urban incarnation that he's almost always on a wind up. don't get sucked in and watch how it goes, true popcorn moments many of them.


That issue is very emotive. It’s a very difficult issue.

There are threads which there’s hustle and bustle on, and almost stereotyped or comedy positions about like cars or cycling. Then there’s threads like this, where a serious issue (everyday sexism) gets thrown up, which should see a shift to more reflective posting. And then there’s threads like the Terf one where there are fundamental clashes in ideology, and the safety and rights of more vulnerable people in society (trans women, and natal women esp those who are subject to a deprivation of liberty).

Divisions in the first and to some extent the second kind of thread can be tolerated as a community. The third kind have been very destructive, and I’ve accepted I just cannot discuss them on here.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

belboid said:


> Put your massive ego away, learn to say ‘sorry’ and to stfu, you prat.



Get in the sea. 

(No idea what that means but apparently it's a goodun).


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It was actually primarily to Broggers (I think I even quoted him") but you're suggesting it was aimed at equationgirl which it partially was, so in her case only I'll retract the "beef witted" bit.


So just to be clear that I've understood. You said:



> silly, a beef-witted series offence taker, brainless and bonkers



and you're apologising for retracting 'beef-witted' for equationgirl which leaves her as:



> silly, a series offence taker, brainless and bonkers



Is that right? 

And is this really the best you can do?

(And I am on your case here because if you genuinely think you did something that wasn't okay, weaselling about and trying to make something into a joke which really isn't a joke is...well worse than pointless.)


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It can most certainly get nasty, but it's very much a two way street. One of the nastiest posters on here is actually Orang Utan (see his silly passive aggressive pics on here and his frequent pissed-up bullying of dessiato ), but he gets a pass because he toes the majority line. I have political differences with many here which frequently put me in people's sights for a bunfight. That's probably shaped my posting style and I can't do much about that. And there are plenty of other posters here who have more scraps than me!


You’ve made all that up.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> (And I am on your case here because if you genuinely think you did something that wasn't okay ...



To be honest I don't, or at least I don't really care about the offence caused. I was just chucking you, personally, an olive branch. People are called far worse than that on here all the time. If I had a quid for every similar insult thrown at me, I could buy fucking Brewdog.

You're badgering me for an apology that won't be sincere. Is that what you want?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Get in the sea.
> 
> (No idea what that means but apparently it's a goodun).


dessiato chooses to take offense at that.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> dessiato chooses to take offense at that.


it doesn't mean what orang utan thought it meant


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I assume you're asking me.
> 
> "Whataboutery" is a cliché on these boards used to deflect charges of hypocrisy, so I reject that.
> 
> ...


This shouldn't need saying, but people get offended by different things. Just because you don't find it offensive doesn't mean it generally isn't and Growler is, in the UK known as a slang for vagina.

Women working in the bars, who are going to have deal with drunk sexist men anyway, probably don't need another excuse given to men to be sexist to them. 
<Sexist / offensive comment related to growler play on words to female barstaff>* and cue adolescent snickering.

*I originally wrote what I thought would be a typical sexist comment and thought better of it as it made me feel uneasy. I can't image having to put up with that shit day in day out and Brewdog has made it worse.


----------



## Sue (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> To be honest I don't, or at least I don't really care about the offence caused. I was just chucking you, personally, an olive branch. People are called far worse than that on here all the time. If I had a quid for every similar insult thrown at me, I could buy fucking Brewdog.
> 
> You're badgering me for an apology that won't be sincere. Is that what you want?


Okay, it's pretty clear that you don't get (or care, not sure which) about the nasty atmosphere you're helping create. I think that's a real shame but I guess pretty soon there'll just be you and a few other like-minded individuals in here posting whatever so maybe it's time to leave you to it. FWIW, I always thought you were an okay guy and often thought people were unduly harsh on you. This thread had kind of changed my mind on that.  

On a related note, sometimes admitting you're wrong and apologising is a sign of strength. Maybe something to keep in mind.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 11, 2022)

Sue said:


> Okay, it's pretty clear that you don't get (or care, not sure which) about the nasty atmosphere you're helping create. I think that's a real shame but I guess pretty soon there'll just be you and a few other like-minded individuals in here posting whatever so maybe it's time to leave you to it. FWIW, I always thought you were an okay guy and often thought people were unduly harsh on you. This thread had kind of changed my mind on that.


I thought the same until that cycling thread and his brutal treatment of people who are sincere about their beliefs. Now I realise he enjoys upsetting people and I don’t think that should be tolerated. I would like to be able to post here unguardedly and don’t feel I can any more. You can’t even have a sensible discussion about environment issues, transport issues, vegetarianism, without certain posters either just plain trolling with silly nonsense or, alternatively, disingenuously  forensic and hostile posts that sidetrack the issue cos one poster has misused a word only for Pickman's model to leap on and cling onto like a Jack Russell until another thread is ruined. I’m so tired of it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> You can’t even have a sensible discussion about environment issues, transport issues, vegetarianism, without certain posters either just plain trolling with silly nonsense or, alternatively, disingenuously  forensic and hostile posts that sidetrack the issue cos one poster has misused a word only for Pickman's model to leap on and cling onto like a Jack Russell until another thread is ruined. I’m so tired of it.


this post ^ seems to me the classic definition of a cross-thread beef. but i'll bite, let's have a link to this thread where word was misused, or a name or something, you can pm it to me to avoid intruding your cross-thread beef further on this car crash of a thread. i reckon it's another of your lies, and i await your pm with interest

e2a (an hour later): disappointed not to be shown the evidence after orang utan went to such trouble to provoke a response.


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

Don't do this.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I thought the same until that cycling thread and his brutal treatment of people who are sincere about their beliefs.



What a load of bollocks. That's ONE thread (it's a car thread, not a cycling thread) where the gloves are off for all posters and has become a free for all. There's nothing informative about it, never was, and was never intended to be. It's just a Teuchter-bait punch-up!

Stick it on ignore like 99% of other posters.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 11, 2022)

Ah well, another thread on ignore.


----------



## editor (Jan 11, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Ah well, another thread on ignore.


I hope not because that will be showing that bullies prosper. 

Amongst all the cross-thread crap and misogyny, there has been some useful discussion about Brewdog's unpleasant practices and it's not right that people should be shouted down for expressing such valid concerns.


----------



## killer b (Jan 11, 2022)

Edie said:


> I think your missus is older than me but this gave me flashbacks to the 90s when I was young and ladette culture reigned. As a young woman you had to pretend to be cool with topless models on walls of student rooms, wolf whistles, and lap dancing. I was dancing a bit in the early 2000s and you’d even get girls out with groups of men in clubs. That was excruciating. My mate (who was very beautiful and very clever) danced for Spearmint Rhino on TCR and there used to be corporate bookings that included women. The mind boggles really. Must of been awkward af for them. I’ve not been in a club for a long time now but I’d hope that’s changed.


'fraid not - Mrs B's brother was telling us over christmas about a birthday party he went to - for a female friend's birthday - at a club in London which featured a stripper. His wife also went and they both said they had a great old time.


----------



## Edie (Jan 11, 2022)

killer b said:


> 'fraid not - Mrs B's brother was telling us over christmas about a birthday party he went to - for a female friend's birthday - at a club in London which featured a stripper. His wife also went and they both said they had a great old time.


Yeah I’m sure it still goes on. I’m thankfully out of touch with that world now. Although I’ve still got old mates still involved. In fact the friend who danced for Stringfellow remains in the industry in a managerial position now and I keep meaning to catch up with her. I’d actually be interested to go to the club she manages and see if anything’s changed. I know that things have changed a fair amount in the escort industry in 20 years, but street work remains as it pretty much always has (as I do some volunteering in that area).


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 11, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It's kind of difficult to avoid. If you have any kind of pension the funds are likely being invested in such a way. Which means you're doing it by proxy if not directly.


Oh, gotcha!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> What a load of bollocks. That's ONE thread (it's a car thread, not a cycling thread) where the gloves are off for all posters and has become a free for all. There's nothing informative about it, never was, and was never intended to be. It's just a Teuchter-bait punch-up!
> 
> Stick it on ignore like 99% of other posters.


It needs to be nuked as it’s fuelling a lot of the bad feeling. People post on there sincerely, despite the title, and then get coated off rudely by people who have no interest in the issue but to just belittle and cause offence to those of us who want a sensible discussion. Same with the veggie threads. Curiously, it’s same phalanx of edgelords as on the cycling thread. 
I don’t think this board should have fight club threads like that at all, so wish it gone and for the edgelords to be banned from such threads, the whole boards preferably


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster for the record, whilst a sincere apology would be appreciated, I certainly don't expect it. You've made your thoughts clear. But perhaps reconsidering your edgelord persona where you basically argued in support of an incredibly misogynistic company (who definitely knew what they were doing, given their history) is in order.

And don't make out that you treat people with respect when you do nothing of the sort.

I would hate to lose this thread, it's a useful chronicle of all of Brewdog's misdeeds. Despite the attempts to argue it's 'genius marketing'.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 11, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Oh, gotcha!



Not really. More it’s hard to avoid capitalism whilst living under it. 
You’d probably be surprised that there’s the most unlikely private landlords on here. But I digress.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 11, 2022)

But I would sincerely like to thank everyone who pointed out that misogyny is not a good look for any company.

Also Peter Painter I don't pretend to speak for all women. What I find offensive they may not and vice versa. I don't find vulgar humour in general offensive (my career in engineering would have been quite short otherwise), but other people do. But this thread is not about those two things. This thread is about a company notorious for using misogyny as a marketing tool, for widespread corporate bullying and for a deliberate anti-union stance. That's what I find offensive, and feel obliged to call out again and again. For which I was called silly, a beef brained series offence taker, brainless and bonkers.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 11, 2022)

Dp


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> It needs to be nuked as it’s fuelling a lot of the bad feeling. People post on there sincerely, despite the title, and then get coated off rudely by people who have no interest in the issue but to just belittle and cause offence to those of us who want a sensible discussion. Same with the veggie threads. Curiously, it’s same phalanx of edgelords as on the cycling thread.



Yet again, it's not a cycling thread. It's a thread specifically (and admittedly) set up by Teuchter to create a ruck. There are plenty of other cycling thread that no "edgelords" go anywhere near, for you to have your jollies on. Personally I couldn't care less if the 'Car Prop' thread is binned. 



> I don’t think this board should have fight club threads like that at all, so wish it gone and for the edgelords to be banned from such threads, the whole boards preferably



There are plenty of people who don't really appreciate your posts either, fella. Tell you what, no need to have me banned. I'll leave if I'm not welcome. Set up a public poll suggesting it. If after a month there are more than 50% want me gone, I'll go. Immediately and permanently. If it's less than 50%, you don't post on here again for 6 months.

Pretty decent odds, eh?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> And don't make out that you treat people with respect when you do nothing of the sort.



This is mendacious. I've done nothing of the sort. I said I endeavour to treat people with the respect _they show me_. That's a long way from your misrepresentation here.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I thought the same until that cycling thread and his brutal treatment of people who are sincere about their beliefs. Now I realise he enjoys upsetting people and I don’t think that should be tolerated. I would like to be able to post here unguardedly and don’t feel I can any more. You can’t even have a sensible discussion about environment issues, transport issues, vegetarianism, without certain posters either just plain trolling with silly nonsense or, alternatively, disingenuously  forensic and hostile posts that sidetrack the issue cos one poster has misused a word only for Pickman's model to leap on and cling onto like a Jack Russell until another thread is ruined. I’m so tired of it.


Been waiting all afternoon for you to produce a thread but it seems this was just another Tobyjug orang utan fact. I've asked you to put up so now you haven't I hope you'll not make this allegation again


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Yet again, it's not a cycling thread. It's a thread specifically (and admittedly) set up by Teuchter to create a ruck. There are plenty of other cycling thread that no "edgelords" go anywhere near, for you to have your jollies on. Personally I couldn't care less if the 'Car Prop' thread is binned.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It only seems to be wallies who don’t appreciate them. I can be abrasive but I apologise when I step over the line. I don’t cause the edgelord stink-ups, and I don’t get involved in rancorous threads for mere sport.

Suggesting a poll is rather juvenile and almost certainly against the rules.
I just think you should be shown the door (not sure what’s passive aggressive about suggesting that, it’s far from being passive!), just for the sake of the harmony of the boards, not because you lose a popularity contest


----------



## ddraig (Jan 11, 2022)

Wondered when the "but i'm popular" defence was going to come up, OH DEAR


----------



## Numbers (Jan 11, 2022)

Anyone else read Eeddggeelloorrdddd in a deep voice and accent in their head?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 11, 2022)

Numbers said:


> Anyone else read Eeddggeelloorrdddd in a deep voice and accent in their head?


More like a wrestling announcer.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 11, 2022)

Edgelord in the blue corner.
Who’s in the red?


----------



## Numbers (Jan 11, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Edgelord in the blue corner.
> Who’s in the red?


The Mendacious Marauder?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> It only seems to be wallies who don’t appreciate them. I can be abrasive but I apologise when I step over the line. I don’t cause the edgelord stink-ups, and I don’t get involved in rancorous threads for mere sport.
> 
> Suggesting a poll is rather juvenile and almost certainly against the rules.
> I just think you should be shown the door (not sure what’s passive aggressive about suggesting that, it’s far from being passive!), just for the sake of the harmony of the boards, not because you lose a popularity contest



Popularity doesn't come into it. I'm well aware that my popularity rating around here is somewhere between Donald Trump and herpes. Just saying that if enough people want me to go, I'll go. But you're the one calling for it and are widely disliked too, so let's see ...


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Popularity doesn't come into it. I'm well aware that my popularity rating around here is somewhere between Donald Trump and herpes. Just saying that if enough people want me to go, I'll go. But you're the one calling for it and are widely disliked too, so let's see ...


You’re contradicting yourself there


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> You’re contradicting yourself there



Go on then. Let's hear it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Go on then. Let's hear it.


Saying popularity doesn’t come into it, yet suggesting a poll to decide if you leave or not.


----------



## belboid (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Go on then. Let's hear it.


Or, you could stop making everything about you.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Saying popularity doesn’t come into it, yet suggesting a poll to decide if you leave or not.



Well you've made the basic mistake of assuming that a lack of popularity equates to wanting someone banned. I have an extremely low opinion of you, for example, but wouldn't want you banned.


----------



## xenon (Jan 11, 2022)

Since we're still on this twist of the thread. I wouldn't want to see anyone posting in it leave FWIW. Or feeling they can't say what they want to say.

Spy and EG often have a bit of a ding dong, so I was ignoring that but EG is / was perfectly correct to point out the sexist advertising. Des dodged the question as to whether this aspect of their marketing he found clever / good as a former marketing nerk.

As for dragging that car thread into it. A bit pathetic. It's a shit fighty, not too serious  thread, everyone can see that. There are other proper threads about electric vehicles, LTNs etc, so just ignore it. It's also really boring anyway. It would also be unbelieveably po faced and dishonest to argue we don't like the bun fight threads now and then. Well I do for 1.


----------



## xenon (Jan 11, 2022)

On topic, have BD done anything else we can slag them off for today though?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

belboid said:


> Or, you could stop making everything about you.



Lol, that's a bit difficult when I'm being tagged or quoted in pretty much every other post! 

I'm only responding to others.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Well you've made the basic mistake of assuming that a lack of popularity equates to wanting someone banned.


Eh?


----------



## belboid (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Lol, that's a bit difficult when I'm being tagged and quoted in pretty much every other post!


It’s fucking easy actually. Just stop.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

xenon said:


> On topic, have BD done anything else we can slag them off for today though?


Still a few hours


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

belboid said:


> It’s fucking easy actually. Just stop.



I am only responding to posts that quote, mention or tag me. That's all I've been doing for ages. I make no apologies for that. 

I think you should go back into the sea.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I think you should go back into the sea.


This back into the sea bit has been done to destruction


----------



## souljacker (Jan 11, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Lol, that's a bit difficult when I'm being tagged or quoted in pretty much every other post!
> 
> I'm only responding to others.


You fucking love it. Have a word.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

souljacker said:


> You fucking love it. Have a word.



It's hard work. Been a busy day here too.


----------



## Numbers (Jan 11, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> surprised no one's posted this on this thread
> View attachment 215246
> they may be a bunch of bastards but at least they've a sense of humour


I have a crate/box of this, it’s out of date now but if anyone wants it they can have it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 11, 2022)

Numbers said:


> I have a crate/box of this, it’s out of date now but if anyone wants it they can have it.


How come you didn't drink it?


----------



## Numbers (Jan 11, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> How come you didn't drink it?


Bought it on a whim to be honest mate and was gonna give it as a gift but never got around to it + I don’t drink beer.


----------



## editor (Jan 11, 2022)

xenon said:


> On topic, have BD done anything else we can slag them off for today though?


Just pissed off a load of people in Bristol



> BrewDog has won permission to open a huge new bar in the Harbourside, but the opening hours of the new venue have been scaled back after fierce opposition from residents.
> 
> 
> The craft beer bar chain originally applied for a late-night licence to sell alcohol until 1.30am in the former Triathlon Shop and Costa on the corner of Millennium Promenade and Cathedral Walk.
> ...





> She said BrewDog had been surprised by the level of public opposition to its licensing application, given the hours it sought mirrored those in planning permission granted for the premises last year.











						Licence granted for new BrewDog bar despite residents' objections
					

The new bar lies in a “cumulative impact” zone in the city centre




					www.bristol247.com


----------



## editor (Jan 11, 2022)

Oh and their attempt to steamroller over Edinburgh's planning laws has backfired. Ha ha. 









						BrewDog ordered to remove new hotel outdoor canopy at listed Edinburgh building
					

The local council told the New Street venue to take down the canopy bosses installed above the approved newly built terrace.




					www.dailyrecord.co.uk


----------



## chilango (Jan 11, 2022)

Hopefully some Bristol folks will roll BrewDog's kegs into the harbour.


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 11, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> But I would sincerely like to thank everyone who pointed out that misogyny is not a good look for any company.
> 
> Also Peter Painter I don't pretend to speak for all women. What I find offensive they may not and vice versa. I don't find vulgar humour in general offensive (my career in engineering would have been quite short otherwise), but other people do. But this thread is not about those two things. This thread is about a hat I find offensive, and feel obliged to call out again and again. For which I was called silly, a beef brained series offence taker, brainless and bonkers.



I didn't think for one minute that you were pretending to speak for all women. But I'm glad you spoke up.

I love women and I'd never want my language to make any woman feel i'm trying to discriminate against them or belittle them, insult them, or even make them feel uncomfortable, simply because they're female.

I only mentioned my misses' comments because they pulled me up sharp a bit. Your comments made me think. Then my misses' comments made me think again. I kind of wish I hadn't mentioned it because as you say, "this thread is about a company notorious for using misogyny as a marketing tool, for widespread corporate bullying and for a deliberate anti-union stance", whereas her comments were far more general; more about language and humour than they were about Brewdog per se.

As far as I'm concerned you weren't being silly, brainless or bonkers. Your views might not represent all women but that doesn't mean that you should keep quiet if you feel that something is, or someone is being, mysognistic. As I said, I'm glad you spoke up. And I expect many others are too.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 11, 2022)

Spy are you OK?

I know you've been most vociferous on this thread, posting with a fecocity that suggests something outside of these boards if bothering you and you're using this place to rant and get some space.

It's OK to not be OK and if you've had some stuff to deal with then that's cool too.

What's not cool is lashing out.

Feel free to pm if you've got shizzle that you're struggling with. You've been here twenty (20!!!) years. I might be able to help I'm happy to listen.

I mean, I might not, but hey....


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 11, 2022)

He’s a sound guy. And isn’t posting any differently than he ever has.


----------



## xenon (Jan 11, 2022)

editor said:


> Just pissed off a load of people in Bristol
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I’m trying to think where those flats are. But you know they are in the city centre. So I’m not defending brew dog but if you live right near a load of other bars. Expecting it to be quiet of a weekend is a bit much. Especially as many of those flats were built fairly recently, well I mean within the last 20 years. Around the harbour area. That said they’re perfectly entitled to object to new developments that could easily add to any antisocial booze related problems


----------



## 8ball (Jan 11, 2022)

xenon said:


> I’m trying to think where those flats are. But you know they are in the city centre. So I’m not defending brew dog but if you live right near a load of other bars. Expecting it to be quiet of a weekend is a bit much. Especially as many of those flats were built fairly recently, well I mean within the last 20 years. Around the harbour area. That said they’re perfectly entitled to object to new developments that could easily add to any antisocial booze related problems



Nah, that sort of talk is for Brixton and when Brewdog aren’t involved.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 11, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> Spy are you OK?
> 
> I know you've been most vociferous on this thread, posting with a fecocity that suggests something outside of these boards if bothering you and you're using this place to rant and get some space.
> 
> ...



 That's kind of you, but I'm fine thanks.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 12, 2022)

Numbers said:


> Anyone else read Eeddggeelloorrdddd in a deep voice and accent in their head?



Matt Berry, kind of


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Matt Berry, kind of


Every loser wins, once the dream begins?



Oh, that's Nick Berry.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 12, 2022)

Can't we just embrace the messiness? Instead of demanding that posters we find annoying must leave, or that threads have to be certified "serious" or not?

Somewhere a few pages ago someone said that urban is supposed to be a sanctuary of some kind. I don't recall any wide agreement at any point that this is what it's "supposed" to be. 

It's always been somewhere with a mix of very serious well-informed discussion, general messing around, arguing for the sake of it, engaging in wind-ups, spectating of bunfights and everything else. Many threads contain elements of all of these things. Sometimes it's ambiguous what's going on - and you have to try and figure out if someone is really serious or just performing a parody of a position they disagree with. Or exaggerating their own position for the fun of it. Personally I enjoy all this; it's what makes it interesting and entertaining and challenging. Do people want it to become some kind of dreary place where all views have to be within an established gamut, comments can only be made in entirely po-faced fashion, and threads are strictly regulated to stay on topic and maintain a constant and consistent level of seriousness throughout? Part of the character of urban75 has always been that it's relatively self regulated. There's another forum I sometimes look at where they are totally intolerant of off-topic discussion and such discussion is forcefully removed and put into new threads with sensible titles chosen by the moderators. Some of the best discussions on here are when they go way off topic. In fact that tends to be true in "real life" too. 

We already have the health and relationships forum where there's an agreement that different expectations apply - that's fine and with good reason.

Should there be an additional fenced off area where it's agreed that discussion on non "health and relationships" subject matter will always be dead serious and on topic? Then all the people who just want to have boring conversations where they all basically agree with each other can stay in there, and the rest of us can carry on with business as usual.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 12, 2022)

Misogyny and trolling shouldn't be business as usual.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Misogyny and trolling shouldn't be business as usual.


Spot on; especially when it exhibits as misogynistic bullying of a poster attempting to make a very valid point about misogyny.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 12, 2022)

Depends on what you mean by "trolling".

And yes in principle of course misogyny shouldn't be business as usual - but not everyone is going to agree about what does and doesn't count as misogyny.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Depends on what you mean by "trolling".
> 
> And yes in principle of course misogyny shouldn't be business as usual - but not everyone is going to agree about what does and doesn't count as misogyny.


Have you not been following the thread?
The poster who highlighted the explicit misogyny in the Brewdog branding was called _another silly, brainless, beef-witted serial offence taker and bonkers _for doing so.


----------



## co-op (Jan 12, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> e2a (an hour later): disappointed not to be shown the evidence after orang utan went to such trouble to provoke a response.



You could always go and find an example of my "vicious bile" while you're waiting. It'd help you pass the time.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Have you not been following the thread?
> The poster who highlighted the explicit misogyny in the Brewdog branding was called _another silly, brainless, beef-witted serial offence taker and bonkers _for doing so.


Yes I have been following the thread.

I don't think the Brewdog branding is "explicit" misogyny. I do think it raises some things that are worth discussing though, and I think there is very likely some element of misogyny in the process that ended up in that name being chosen.

I have my own opinions about what was and wasn't ok, in the various interactions since then. As I do in any thread here.

I think that the ensuing discussion probably made quite a lot of people think more about that Brewdog branding choice, than they would have if it had just been described as misogynistic and then everyone had nodded their heads and the thread had moved on. Because there would also be people who would have rolled their eyes, thought such an objection was stupid, and also moved on without any change in their opinion or thoughts about what is or isn't misogyny.

Now as for the "bullying" I think that's an overstatement, I believe it's long been part of the culture for urban75 that people can all each other idiots (and worse) and then have a big argument about it. I know that some people don't think that to be a good thing, and want it to change so that we all tip-toe around each other carefully instead. Like I say, perhaps there should be a fenced-off area for those who want that.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 12, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Depends on what you mean by "trolling".
> 
> And yes in principle of course misogyny shouldn't be business as usual - but not everyone is going to agree about what does and doesn't count as misogyny.



Sigh


----------



## chilango (Jan 12, 2022)

I hate the fact that not being a sexist dick gets twisted into being po-faced and dreary. You can fuck right off with that kinda nonsense.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 12, 2022)

co-op said:


> You could always go and find an example of my "vicious bile" while you're waiting. It'd help you pass the time.


 Is that one of BrewDogs?


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 12, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Yes I have been following the thread.
> 
> I don't think the Brewdog branding is "explicit" misogyny. I do think it raises some things that are worth discussing though, and I think there is very likely some element of misogyny in the process that ended up in that name being chosen.
> 
> ...



This is seems to be a particularly vicious spat, that had died down, (I'm fairly new here so I don't what gone down before). But it had died down you have now stirred it with a couple of posts that will wind up both sides of the argument.    
Well Done


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 12, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> This is seems to be a particularly vicious spat, that had died down, (I'm fairly new here so I don't what gone down before). But it had died down you have now stirred it with a couple of posts that will wind up both sides of the argument.
> Well Done



It's his m.o.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Yes I have been following the thread.
> 
> I don't think the Brewdog branding is "explicit" misogyny. I do think it raises some things that are worth discussing though, and I think there is very likely some element of misogyny in the process that ended up in that name being chosen.
> 
> ...


If anyone was calling for a safe-space your ramblings might have some relevance, but as it is, there was some bullying behaviour that was called out, challenged robustly and the offending poster(s) didn't seem to like that. The thread did appear to 'police' itself without intervention.
btw calling a product growler and writing it on the bottle is, IMHO, pretty much the definition of explicit.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 12, 2022)

chilango said:


> I hate the fact that not being a sexist dick gets twisted into being po-faced and dreary.


They are definitely two different things, in my opinion.

The po-facedness is not referring to an intolerance of people posting sexist nonsense.

It's referring to an intolerance of a posting style or culture that includes some level of deliberate provocation, hyperbole, or ambiguity of intent.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 12, 2022)

chilango said:


> I hate the fact that not being a sexist dick gets twisted into being po-faced and dreary. You can fuck right off with that kinda nonsense.


See also "feminist kiljoys".


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 12, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> It's his m.o.


Seeing argument was about the use of certain words in relation to misogyny. I'm going to refrain for certain words that are used a lot around here, and just say that teuchter is somewhat of a contemptable fellow for restarting the argument.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> This is seems to be a particularly vicious spat, that had died down, (I'm fairly new here so I don't what gone down before). But it had died down you have now stirred it with a couple of posts that will wind up both sides of the argument.



Welcome to Urban.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 12, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Seeing argument was about the use of certain words in relation to misogyny.


I actually refrained from getting involved in that argument, other than being the only person who sought out and posted some actual evidence that Brewdog were always fully aware of the alternative meanings of the word in question.

That argument morphed into one more generally about the posting culture on urban, and that's the one I decided to enter into and as you see it, stir up. And I remain happy with that decision. That you said it would wind up both sides of the argument I take as a compliment, because it shows I made a perfectly balanced intervention.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 12, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Welcome to Urban.


I've been here is March last year, but seeing people have been since 2001 I'm still a noob


----------



## Maggot (Jan 12, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> My absolute favourite is made by Beavertown Brewery. I hope nobody is going to tell me that they're wankers too!


How come Growler is misogynistic but Beaver town is ok?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 12, 2022)

Maggot said:


> How come Growler is misogynistic but Beaver town is ok?


Because Beavertown isn't named for the female genital colloquialism of Beaver, but a corruption of De Beauvoir town, in part of East London.

Whereas growler was clearly chosen in line with Brewdog's misogynistic marketing guidelines.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 12, 2022)

Maggot said:


> How come Growler is misogynistic but Beaver town is ok?


This is a thread about BrewDog.
Do you know that Beaver Town was set up as a sexist dog whistle? I genuinely don't know. *
Look up the difference between "beaver" and "growler" as slang words and I think that will at least partially answer your question.
BrewDog have a long history of misogyny, examples of which are in this very thread, as well as many other shitty practices.

eta * equationgirl has just addressed this.


----------



## surreybrowncap (Jan 12, 2022)

Maggot said:


> How come Growler is misogynistic but Beaver town is ok?


Brewery set up by Logan Plant (son of Robert….

experimenting in my kitchen, developing my own brewing style by trial and error. I set up a brewery – Beavertown, named after the old Cockney nickname for De Beauvoir Town in east London, home of our first premises were. And we set up an American-style barbecue joint where we'd also serve the beers – which became Duke's Brew and Que in Dalston.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 12, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Seeing argument was about the use of certain words in relation to misogyny. I'm going to refrain for certain words that are used a lot around here, and just say that teuchter is somewhat of a contemptable fellow for restarting the argument.



He's been doing this shit for aeons. Being contrarian, pretending to explore and encourage debate, butter wouldn't melt etc.


----------



## chilango (Jan 12, 2022)

Maggot said:


> How come Growler is misogynistic but Beaver town is ok?



Do Beavertown use "Huh huh we said 'beaver'" type branding?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

Maggot said:


> How come Growler is misogynistic but Beaver town is ok?


It's a fair question, but Plant jnr. claimed that it was named after the old Cockney nickname for De Beauvoir Town in east London which was the home of their first premises.


----------



## co-op (Jan 12, 2022)

surreybrowncap said:


> Brewery set up by Logan Plant (son of Robert….
> 
> experimenting in my kitchen, developing my own brewing style by trial and error. I set up a brewery – Beavertown, named after the old Cockney nickname for De Beauvoir Town in east London, home of our first premises were. And we set up an American-style barbecue joint where we'd also serve the beers – which became Duke's Brew and Que in Dalston.



I'm guessing that the "Old Cockney nickname" probably wasn't 100% innocent of sexual innuendo


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 12, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> This is a thread about BrewDog.
> Do you know that Beaver Town was set up as a sexist dog whistle? I genuinely don't know. *
> Look up the difference between "beaver" and "growler" as slang words and I think that will at least partially answer your question.
> BrewDog have a long history of misogyny, examples of which are in this very thread, as well as many other shitty practices.
> ...





chilango said:


> Do Beavertown use "Huh huh we said 'beaver'" type branding?


Looking at their products; no, AFAICT none of their products have names that involve sexist innuendo.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

Never heard of De Beauvoir Town…


----------



## killer b (Jan 12, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> He's been doing this shit for aeons. Being contrarian, pretending to explore and encourage debate, butter wouldn't melt etc.


tbf I generally find teucher's provocations worth engaging with - they often lead in interesting directions.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 12, 2022)

killer b said:


> tbf I generally find teucher's provocations worth engaging with - they often lead in interesting directions.



Hit and miss, imho


----------



## killer b (Jan 12, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Hit and miss, imho


aren't we all.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> ... there was some bullying behaviour that was called out, challenged robustly and the offending poster(s) didn't seem to like that.


An interesting appraisal of proceedings, Broggers. 

Bollocks, but interesting!


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> An interesting appraisal of proceedings, Broggers.
> 
> Bollocks, but interesting!


QED


----------



## teuchter (Jan 12, 2022)

By the way if anyone wants to do a check on their local brewer, this website has quite a comprehensive register of offenders.









						sexism – Pumpclip Parade
					





					pumpclipparade.co.uk


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 12, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> An interesting appraisal of proceedings, Broggers.
> 
> Bollocks, but interesting!


So what would you call it, Spymaster?


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2022)

co-op said:


> I'm guessing that the "Old Cockney nickname" probably wasn't 100% innocent of sexual innuendo


This is desperate stuff. And desperately irrelevant too.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 12, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> So what would you call it, Spymaster?



The post you've quoted makes it pretty clear what I call it.


----------



## co-op (Jan 12, 2022)

editor said:


> This is desperate stuff. And desperately irrelevant too.


Probably quite irrelevant but what's so "desperate" about it? It was just a comment that the word looks likely to be an innuendo, how does that piss you off?


----------



## editor (Jan 12, 2022)

co-op said:


> Probably quite irrelevant but what's so "desperate" about it? It was just a comment that the word looks likely to be an innuendo, how does that piss you off?


It's more of the same fucking tedious, topic shifting whataboutery that this thread is riddled with.


----------



## co-op (Jan 12, 2022)

editor said:


> It's more of the same fucking tedious, topic shifting whataboutery that this thread is riddled with.


Get a grip. It was a passing comment and nothing to do with whatever you're ranting about.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 12, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> The post you've quoted makes it pretty clear what I'd call it.


You said it was bollocks.

So calling people on this thread 'silly, beef brained serial (although you said series in the original post) offence takers, brainless and bonkers, is what, your version of complimentary?

Take responsibility for your posts and answer a direct question.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 12, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Never heard of De Beauvoir Town…


It's one of the more obscure bits of Hackney, but was visited by Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky and  Rosa Luxemburg in 1907:








						Lenin in Hackney
					

In 1907 the 5th Congress of the Russian Social Democratic Labour Party was held in a church on the corner of Southgate Road and Balmes Road in the De Beauvoir area of Hackney. Attendees included Le…




					hackneyhistory.wordpress.com


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 12, 2022)

co-op said:


> Get a grip. It was a passing comment and nothing to do with whatever you're ranting about.


But it was after several people had pointed out where it came from and you still tried to ascribe an incorrect meaning.

Anyway, this thread is about Brewdog and their history of dubious behaviour, I would hate for a different brewery that does none of the things they do to be dragged through the mire.

If they ever follow Brewdog's misogynistic practices, there can be a thread about them then.


----------



## co-op (Jan 12, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> But it was after several people had pointed out where it came from and you still tried to ascribe an incorrect meaning.



No I pointed out that this cockney slang was quite possibly an example of innuendo. That basically ends up meaning sweet fuck all in terms of Brewdog/Beavertown etc. FWIW I think Brewdog are dickheads and Growler is misogynistic. It was not an attempt to argue that Brewdog were somehow just the same as anyone else.

Is it so impossible that "Beavertown" could possibly be an innuendo? Does anyone actually care enough to argue it? Jesus


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 12, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> So calling people on this thread 'silly, beef brained serial (although you said series in the original post) offence takers, brainless and bonkers, is what, your version of complimentary?



No, I said "serial". I think it was you or Broggers who mangled it to series. 



> Take responsibility for your posts and answer a direct question.



Ok. 

No. It is most definitely not complimentary.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> It's one of the more obscure bits of Hackney, but was visited by Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky and  Rosa Luxemburg in 1907:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Cheers. Thought I pretty much knew all of Hackney given I’ve lived in both Clapton and Haggerston.


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 12, 2022)

Maggot said:


> How come Growler is misogynistic but Beaver town is ok?



I don't find "growler" particularly offensive. But I am a man. We've seen that some women don't find the term offensive but others may do.

As far as I can tell, (she can correct me if I'm wrong) equationgirl doesn't so much have a problem with the word itself but more with the company. It seems it is because  Brewdog are, "a company notorious for using misogyny as a marketing tool, for widespread corporate bullying and for a deliberate anti-union stance", that she isn't prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and/or laugh off their puerile humour on this occasion.

Others have explained about the origin of the 'Beavertown" name (which I thank them for because I didn't know). Even if their name isn't, "100% innocent of sexual innuendo", the fact that they don't have the same "notorious" history/reputation as Brewdog, coupled with the reasons they have given for the origin of their name, it's perhaps understandable why they are being given the benefit of doubt. Maybe if Brewdog hadn't already shown themselves to be a shitty company they might also have been given the benefit of the doubt for using a word that could mean flagon/jug?

I don't know but I reckon it's all down, as ever, to the context. I don't want to insult or offend people, and I like to be told if I have inadvertently insulted or offended someone, yet at the same time I have little time for a totalitarian political correctness that pays no heed to context or nuance.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> I don't find "growler" particularly offensive. But I am a man. We've seen that some women don't find the term offensive but others may do.
> 
> As far as I can tell, (she can correct me if I'm wrong) equationgirl doesn't so much have a problem with the word itself but more with the company. It seems it is because  Brewdog are, "a company notorious for using misogyny as a marketing tool, for widespread corporate bullying and for a deliberate anti-union stance", that she isn't prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt and/or laugh off their puerile humour on this occasion.
> 
> ...


Yeah, but there's nothing "politically correct" in listening respectfully when women say that something exhibits misogyny, is there? Nor is it "authoritarian" to call out misogynistic abuse directed at those same women for doing so.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 12, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Cheers. Thought I pretty much knew all of Hackney given I’ve lived in both Clapton and Haggerston.


there's a lot of hidden hackney. the lcc houses round at thomas' square on mare street which some people have speculated were named after bounty mutineers. the flying horse on sun street, shoreditch, which is supposed to be haunted. the bottomless pit in the basement of the former library in the rose lipman building on the corner of de beauvoir road and downham road. and lots of forgotten history like the skeleton army riots down city road in the 1880s when the salvation army took over the eagle tavern and grecian theatre, and the riot outside the shakespeare in stokey - again against the salvation army. the kick off outside the town hall the night the samuel pepys closed for the final time.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Nor is it "authoritarian" to call out misogynistic abuse directed at those same women for doing so.



It was directed at _you,_ more than EG, as is very clear from the exchange on the page. I understand how it suits your purposes to pretend otherwise though.


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yeah, but there's nothing "politically correct" in listening respectfully when women say that something exhibits misogyny, is there? Nor is it "authoritarian" to call out misogynistic abuse directed at those same women for doing so.



Did I suggest there was?!

Of course you should listen respectfully whenever anybody says they find anything offensive.

But context is key and it is possible for people to sometimes take offence or see mysogyny (or racism, homophobia, transphobia, etc, etc) where there isn't actually any intention of such. It could be that the suggestion that "Beavertown" is somehow mysognistic is an example of this?

Where has this "authoritarian" quote come from? I'm sure I didn't use that word and if someone else has I've missed it.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 12, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> Did I suggest there was?!
> 
> Of course you should listen respectfully whenever anybody says they find anything offensive.
> 
> ...


It's not about intention, it's about how something is received.


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 12, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> It's not about intention, it's about how something is received.



I think it is about both.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> Did I suggest there was?!
> 
> Of course you should listen respectfully whenever anybody says they find anything offensive.
> 
> ...


Apols...yeah, "totalitarian" not "authoritarian".
my bad...still a bit rona-brained.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 12, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> I think it is about both.


I once had an enlightening conversation on this topic with a former colleague. We both enjoyed banter and general hilarity but he also said he was clear where the line was and what I would be fine with one day, I might not be fine the next day.

I also had to have words with another colleague who thought making jokes about transgender people was ok. I assured him it was not.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 12, 2022)

Been teaching Equally and Diversity to 16 & 17 year olds today. A few 'actual' grownups on this thread last several pages could have benefited from it.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 12, 2022)

Spymaster you're trying to twist your own posts to make it look like you weren't a bully. You were. Have the decency to own it.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 12, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Spymaster you're trying to twist your own posts to make it look like you weren't a bully. You were. Have the decency to own it.



I assume from the tag you're looking for a response. 

I was most definitely rude to the pair of you. Intentionally so. If being rude to people is bullying then so be it. 

I'm cooking now. Duck a l'orange. You may have to wait til tomorrow if you want to continue this.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 12, 2022)

"so be it"
Pure arrogance


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It was directed at _you,_ more than EG, as is very clear from the exchange on the page. I understand how it suits your purposes to pretend otherwise though.


There's only one of us pretending anything here. You jointly directed a few comments including the bizarre _"take offence at a cotton bud" _and the more abusive "_beef-witted serial offence takers", _but your direct responses to equationgirl said she was "_silly_", "_brainless_", "_bonkers_" for identifying and calling out the misogynistic Brewdog branding. Furthermore you were dismissive of her concerns and claimed to speak for "_most people_" saying they don't care about such matters.

If you regret saying such things it's probably best to apologise and move on rather than claim that you didn't direct such things at another poster.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> There's only one of us pretending anything here. You jointly directed a few comments including the bizarre _"take offence at a cotton bud" _and the more abusive "_beef-witted serial offence takers", _but your direct responses to equationgirl said she was "_silly_", "_brainless_", "_bonkers_" for identifying and calling out the misogynistic Brewdog branding. Furthermore you were dismissive of her concerns and claimed to speak for "_most people_" saying they don't care about such matters.



Well clearly this is wrong but at least you got the quotes right this time.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 12, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Well clearly this is wrong but at least you got the quotes right this time.


Clearly you profess not to understand how posting on a thread works. You posted it, therefore you said it.

brogdale is quoting exactly what you posted back to you. For some reason you think denying what you posted makes you big and clever. It doesn't


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 12, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Clearly you profess not to understand how posting on a thread works. You posted it, therefore you said it.
> 
> brogdale is quoting exactly what you posted back to you. For some reason you think denying what you posted makes you big and clever. It doesn't



I'm not denying for one moment that I _posted_ it. I even congratulated Broggers on getting the quotes right.


----------



## belboid (Jan 12, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Well clearly this is wrong but at least you got the quotes right this time.


It's clearly right. You really do need to apologise, stfu or to join the foreign office.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 12, 2022)

belboid said:


> It's clearly right. You really do need to apologise, stfu or to join the foreign office.



Foreign, Commonwealth, and Development Office, nowadays.


----------



## baldrick (Jan 12, 2022)

I am very late to this 'discussion' but wanted to say thanks to those who stuck their heads above the parapet and made sane, reasonable points and received the mocking, bullying, dismissive responses they knew would happen.

I don't discuss feminist/women's issues here generally. There was a time years ago when I would have leapt into this conversation but nothing changes, and I got tired of knocking my head against a brick wall. You can only discuss certain kinds of issues here, others are not tolerated. By which I mean no space is given for conversation to develop about personal experience - because someone will jump in and accuse you of generalising, taking things the wrong way,etc etc blah blah blah.

So the way this has gone is no surprise but nevertheless it's a bit sad.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> there's a lot of hidden hackney. the lcc houses round at thomas' square on mare street which some people have speculated were named after bounty mutineers. the flying horse on sun street, shoreditch, which is supposed to be haunted. the bottomless pit in the basement of the former library in the rose lipman building on the corner of de beauvoir road and downham road. and lots of forgotten history like the skeleton army riots down city road in the 1880s when the salvation army took over the eagle tavern and grecian theatre, and the riot outside the shakespeare in stokey - again against the salvation army. the kick off outside the town hall the night the samuel pepys closed for the final time.


My best discovery which I chanced upon randomly when off my nut (my normal route home being blocked by an alleged bomb on a bus, even though I'd just left my home minutes earlier) was this beauty somewhere in the middle of Clapton. Very strange.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

Will look nothing really. But I'd had smack, just went to the shop for cigs, couldn't get home because of a bomb and then there's a roman building in the middle of a housing estate with neon lights. You had to be there I guess.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 12, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Will look nothing really. But I'd had smack, just went to the shop for cigs, couldn't get home because of a bomb and then there's a roman building in the middle of a housing estate with neon lights. You had to be there I guess.



When was this exactly?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

8ball said:


> When was this exactly?


Oh now that's a good question. At least twenty years ago is my best answer. Apparently it's a school and the neon lights were by a (Turner winning?) artist.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Well clearly this is wrong but at least you got the quotes right this time.


Yes, the quotes of what you said to a woman on this thread who was highlighting the misogyny in the Brewdog marketing, not me. 

Up to you whether or not you stand by what you said, but attempting to suggest that it wasn't directed at a women looks pretty shabby to me.

Boring as well.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 12, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Oh now that's a good question. At least twenty years ago is my best answer. Apparently it's a school and the neon lights were by a (Turner winning?) artist.



Back when they thought the words might turn out to be true.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yes, the quotes of what you said to a woman on this thread who was highlighting the misogyny in the Brewdog marketing, not me.
> 
> Up to you whether or not you stand by what you said, but attempting to suggest that it wasn't directed at a women looks pretty shabby to me.
> 
> Boring as well.



Well it's clearly not_ that _boring since you keep taking the trouble to post and chase me around.

"Oops, I've just thought of something else to say"


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

8ball said:


> Back when they thought the words might turn out to be true.


Well yeah. Anyway, here you go:





__





						‘Work No. 203: EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE ALRIGHT’, Martin Creed, 1999 | Tate
					

Artwork page for ‘Work No. 203: EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE ALRIGHT’, Martin Creed, 1999




					www.tate.org.uk


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Well it's clearly not_ that _boring since you keep taking the trouble to post and chase me around.
> 
> "Oops, I've just thought of something else to say"


Boring, unnecessary and adds nothing to the thread.
Not sure that righting errors in your posts in one thread is _chasing you around, _but let's not keep talking about you, eh?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> but let's not keep talking about you, eh?


If folk keep biting...


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> If folk keep biting...


...bullying comments continue to put off good folk from posting?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> ... let's not keep talking about you, eh?



Nothing would please me more. Just stop quoting, tagging, or mentioning me, and this all ends. 

You're winding yourself up Broggers.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> ...bullying comments continue to put off good folk from posting?


Those points have been made.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 12, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Those points have been made.


Good; and that needs to be maintained.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Good; and that needs to be maintained.


Fair enough I won't dispute that. But as always with these dances between trolls and those who dislike them, it takes two to tango.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 12, 2022)

So what do you suggest Magnus McGinty ? No more pointing out misogyny in case people get upset? No more pointing out bullying dismissiveness?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 12, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> So what do you suggest Magnus McGinty ? No more pointing out misogyny in case people get upset? No more pointing out bullying dismissiveness?



He isn’t upset. He’s being a contrarian. Nobody has to engage with him if they don’t want to.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 12, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> He isn’t upset. He’s being a contrarian. Nobody has to engage with him if they don’t want to.



No, they do.  They have to.
They just can't admit why to themselves.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> No, they do.  They have to.
> They just can't admit why to themselves.



Go on...


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Go on...



Oh, you tease.. 


The answer is simply that they love it.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 13, 2022)

dessiato please explain why you think Brewdog's marketing strategy is so brilliant when previously you have condemned such gendered marketing strategies:



dessiato said:


> I used this in a English for Marketing class to provoke a discussion. Everyone was shocked but thought that the amount of discussion it created, and controversy, it was an acceptable strategy, even though noone said that they would have run it. As a professionally qualified marketer I thought that it was wholly wrong.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> Oh, you tease..
> 
> 
> The answer is simply that they love it.



Do they?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Do they?



Or _do_ they?


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> ...bullying comments continue to put off good folk from posting?


the good folk of urban! 😁😁


----------



## brogdale (Jan 13, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> the good folk of urban! 😁😁


I just didn't particularly want to namecheck those posters who were honest enough to come in here and actually say that they felt intimidated and unwilling to offer opinions that would get jumped on unpleasantly as happened to EG.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> the good folk of urban! 😁😁


It's not a joke.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> Oh, you tease..
> 
> 
> The answer is simply that they love it.


That’s not true at all. We’d rather not have to deal with them at all


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> That’s not true at all. We’d rather not have to deal with them at all


 Think of it as being an antiques dealer


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Think of it as being an antiques dealer


They deal with objects of value though


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> They deal with objects of value though


Flea market, then


----------



## two sheds (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> Oh, you tease..
> 
> 
> The answer is simply that they love it.


I think only one side usually enjoys this sort of exchange.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

Just noticed that Loose Women was on which struck me as another example of using a pejorative in branding.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Just noticed that Loose Women was on which struck me as another example of using a pejorative in branding.


I don't see it as pejorative at all seeing as it's a show for women by women, and they can call it whatever they like.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

editor said:


> I don't see it as pejorative at all seeing as it's a show for women by women, and they can call it whatever they like.



Not all of the producers are women. Similarly not all of Brewdog’s executives are men.


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 13, 2022)

editor said:


> It's not a joke.


Meaning of _good folk_ in English:​good folk​​NOUN​Scottish

(With the or occasionally in plural) fairies or elves collectively; also occasionally witches collectively.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> Or _do_ they?


I don't know why you're posting on this thread, you're not adding anything to the debate, just making a suggestion that people like me simply love the bullying and are doing it for attention.

Have a word with yourself.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 13, 2022)

It is gaslighting basically: no you’re wrong, you’re overreacting, you love the drama… 

It’s really shit.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I don't know why you're posting on this thread, you're not adding anything to the debate, just making a suggestion that people like me simply love the bullying and are doing it for attention.
> 
> Have a word with yourself.


It's how they get their jollies, here and vegan thread, sadly
Throwing in the odd reasonable looking post to make it look like they're not for a bit then back to trolling


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Meaning of _good folk_ in English:​good folk​​NOUN​Scottish
> 
> (With the or occasionally in plural) fairies or elves collectively; also occasionally witches collectively.


And the two laughing emoticons underneath?


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 13, 2022)

editor said:


> And the two laughing emoticons underneath?


i thought it was funny! 😁😘


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not all of the producers are women. Similarly not all of Brewdog’s executives are men.


Not sure what point or comparison you're trying to prove here.



> The show was originally broadcast from Norwich, then Manchester, before moving to London, and focuses on a panel of four female presenters who interview celebrities, talk about aspects of their lives, and discuss topical issues ranging from politics and current affairs to celebrity gossip and entertainment news.





Executive producer*Emma Gormley*ProducersEdd Benjamin Eleanor Cotter Mattie Jameson Helen Stuart Harriet Thurley Laura Hills (planning; head) Joey Cella (showbiz; head) Annabel Zammit (celebrity)EditorsSally Shelford (Editor) Tom Sage (Deputy Editor) Yiljan Nevzat (Deputy Editor)


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i thought it was funny! 😁😘


Please fuck off this thread if all you have to add is emojis.


----------



## campanula (Jan 13, 2022)

I am old enough to not much care about snide-y insinuating shite...but my 10 year old grand-daughter is enveloped in a fucking tidal wave of gendered, grotesquely skewed and impossible aspirations...and I swear, I am angry, sick of it and depressed, all at the same time. I don't relish getting shouty at posters on here - it's just not me...but I am sincerely asking for recognition that being joke-y, light-hearted, ironic doesn't somehow mitigate the really unpleasant, damaging effects of slippery nastiness...and tbh, I can't see anything commendable with producers using this sort of shitty marketing. Being slyly complicit with this sort of sniggery-pokery is...a bit rubbish.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

editor said:


> Not sure what point or comparison you're trying to prove here.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So there’s an Edd a Mattie and a Joey credited as producers. So seems pretty mixed to me.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So there’s an Edd a Mattie and a Joey credited as producers. So seems pretty mixed to me.


Why the fuck are you going on and on about an all-women hosted TV show when we're talking about misogyny in the brewing industry? What point are you trying to make?


----------



## chilango (Jan 13, 2022)

editor said:


> Why the fuck are you going on and on about an all-women hosted TV show when we're talking about misogyny in the brewing industry? What point are you trying to make?



Yeah.

I just don't get what motivates posters to try and have a dig at people saying misogynistic shit is, well, misogynistic shit.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

editor said:


> Why the fuck are you going on and on about an all-women hosted TV show when we're talking about misogyny in the brewing industry? What point are you trying to make?



On and on. Two posts. 

I was pointing out another example of a sexist pejorative in branding. Which is what was being discussed earlier in the thread.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Yet again, it's not a cycling thread. It's a thread specifically (and admittedly) set up by Teuchter to create a ruck. There are plenty of other cycling thread that no "edgelords" go anywhere near, for you to have your jollies on. Personally I couldn't care less if the 'Car Prop' thread is binned.


Just to go back to this - what about the veggie threads and the other threads in which you and your fellow provocateurs like to misbehave on? it's not just that thread. you treat this place like a gladiatorial arena - it's all about the shit flinging - you and the others display very little interest in having a constructive conversation. You don't seem to realise that many of are earnest in their efforts to share their opinions and learn from discussing where they differ with others.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> On and on. Two posts.
> 
> I was pointing out another example of a sexist pejorative in branding. Which is what was being discussed earlier in the thread.


I don't agree that an all woman TV show headed up by a female executive producer has sexist branding, not that it has anything to do with Brewdog.

Are you suggesting that the women are happy to go along with a 'sexist pejorative in branding'  - or that they're too stupid to realise it? 

Or perhaps they know exactly what's going on and are  happy to have reclaimed the phrase on national TV?


----------



## campanula (Jan 13, 2022)

Your point being what, Magnus McGinty ? I would not presume to speak on behalf of women or stuff like that...but I feel totally able to state how demeaning I find some language to be. It isn't even a clear or logical case either (and I can see why you are tempted by pointing out the inconsistencies implicit in various circumstances)...but it HAS been brought to your attention, that specifically, Brewdog, with their knowing, cynical sly disrespect and contempt, is particularly upsetting to these posters (including myself, although mostly from a solidarity POV)...so why not be a decent person and have some empathy?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

editor said:


> I don't agree that an all woman TV show headed up by a female executive producer has sexist branding, not that it has anything to do with Brewdog.
> 
> Are you suggesting that the women are happy to go along with a 'sexist pejorative in branding'  - or that they're too stupid to realise it?
> 
> Or perhaps they know exactly what's going on and are  happy to have reclaimed the phrase on national TV?



Just strikes me as odd to be simultaneously against that sort of branding yet equally for it.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Just strikes me as odd to be simultaneously against that sort of branding yet equally for it.


IT'S NOT THE SAME THING.


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Just strikes me as odd to be simultaneously against that sort of branding yet equally for it.


Do you not get the difference between being laughed with and laughed at?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> Do you not get the difference between being laughed with and laughed at?



I know what consistency means.


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Just strikes me as odd to be simultaneously against that sort of branding yet equally for it.


It's not really odd is it? The reclaiming of sexist / racist / homophobic etc slurs by the groups they're targeted at has such a long and widely known history that I can only imagine you're pretending not to understand what the difference is.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I know what consistency means.


What's your thoughts on the post-punk band, The Slits?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> It's not really odd is it? The reclaiming of sexist / racist / homophobic etc slurs by the groups they're targeted at has such a long and widely known history that I can only imagine you're pretending not to understand what the difference is.



So where does that leave the female executives at Brewdog?


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So where does that leave the female executives at Brewdog?


going with the flow 'cause they really can't be fucked like lots of women do?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Just to go back to this - what about the veggie threads and the other threads in which you and your fellow provocateurs like to misbehave on? it's not just that thread. you treat this place like a gladiatorial arena - it's all about the shit flinging - you and the others display very little interest in having a constructive conversation. You don't seem to realise that many of are earnest in their efforts to share their opinions and learn from discussing where they differ with others.



I'm pretty sure it's only one veggie thread that's like that now and that too was set-up with a provocative, finger-wagging, title and OP. And when you say me and my fellow provocateurs, you seem to ignore the fact that most of the other contributors to that thread are fighting about it too! If threads are set-up like that, they're going to attract confrontation. There are other veggie threads that don't get touched by any "provocateurs". Cycling ones too.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So where does that leave the female executives at Brewdog?


You don't think women executives ever have to work for sexist, misogynistic bosses/companies?


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I know what consistency means.


So that’s a ‘no’ then


----------



## Poot (Jan 13, 2022)

No one ever expects all men to be the same and have the same morals or lack thereof. I dont know why there are women on the board of Brewdog. Maybe they're arseholes? Who knows.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 13, 2022)

Individual women are obviously more than capable of acting in a way that acts against other women or women more generally aren't they. See Priti Patel, Margaret Thatcher, Ghislaine Maxwell etc etc. I don't think that's particularly controversial is it?


----------



## chilango (Jan 13, 2022)

What's your motive here in trying to point out "inconsistencies" Magnus McGinty?


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So where does that leave the female executives at Brewdog?


Several people - reasonable, thoughtful posters - on this thread on a left wing messageboard which is apparently so left wing that we're totally removed from what normal people think, have said they don't get involved with discussions on feminism here because it's like banging their heads against a wall. Here, in one of the most ludicrously right-one spaces on the internet. Imagine what it must be like elsewhere. Imagine the adjustments & compromises many women must have to make to be able to get out of bed every the morning without stabbing you.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I'm pretty sure it's only one veggie thread that's like that now and that too was set-up with a provocative, finger-wagging, title and OP. And when you say me and my fellow provocateurs, you seem to ignore the fact that most of the other contributors to that thread are fighting about it too! If threads are set-up like that, they're going to attract confrontation. There are other veggie threads that don't get touched by any "provocateurs". Cycling ones too.


it doesn't matter that there are other threads that people behave themselves on - I'm talking about the ones in which people behave disgracefully and make posters not want to be here anymore. 
It's all very well telling people to ignore certain threads and certain posters, but we'll still be aware that the rot is still there - it just has a veil across it. As I said earlier, some threads need to be gone cos they exist purely to whip up conflict


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

chilango said:


> What's your motive here in trying to point out "inconsistencies" Magnus McGinty?



It came on the TV when I was on my break.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> Several people - reasonable, thoughtful posters - on this thread on a left wing messageboard which is apparently so left wing that we're totally removed from what normal people think, have said they don't get involved with discussions on feminism here because it's like banging their heads against a wall. Here, in one of the most ludicrously right-one spaces on the internet. Imagine what it must be like elsewhere. Imagine the adjustments & compromises many women must have to make to be able to get out of bed every the morning without stabbing you.



Agreed, but I hardly think me mentioning Loose Women is doing that.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Agreed, but I hardly think me mentioning Loose Women is doing that.


Think again then


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> As I said earlier, some threads need to be gone cos they exist purely to whip up conflict



I agree that such threads exist. Also that others are deliberately confrontational but superficially dressed as reasonable.

What is done with these threads is a decision for the moderating team.


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Agreed, but I hardly think me mentioning Loose Women is doing that.


Sure it is. It's chipping away at the same shit isn't it - whataboutery, _how come this is ok but that isn't_ when you know exactly why this is ok and that isn't.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Agreed, but I hardly think me mentioning Loose Women is doing that.


Someone above invited you to say what motivated your 'inconsistencies' point.
If you want to dissociate yourself from killer b 's analysis, it might be useful to respond to that invitation.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Someone above invited you to say what motivated your 'inconsistencies' point.
> If you want to dissociate yourself from killer b 's analysis, it might be useful to respond to that invitation.



One is a brewery the other is a production company. Both have mixed sexes in executive positions. One is to be decried while the other defended. For the record I’m not mad keen on either.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> One is a brewery the other is a production company. Both have mixed sexes in executive positions. One is to be decried while the other defended. For the record I’m not mad keen on either.


Yes, that's what you said.
I think you asked to say why you chose to make the observation...what point were trying to make?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yes, that's what you said.
> I think you asked to say why you chose to make the observation...what point were trying to make?



It was another example of using a pejorative in branding.


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

it was just an example. just posing a question. no agenda.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> it was just an example. just posing a question. no agenda.



Well I wasn’t to know that the Urban consensus would be that it’s a good name for a show. But now I do.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> As I said earlier, some threads need to be gone cos they exist purely to whip up conflict


This one got a bit tense


			https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/why-men-should-sit-down-to-pee.355219/


----------



## brogdale (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well I wasn’t to know that the Urban consensus would be that it’s a good name for a show. But now I do.


Good for you.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> This one got a bit tense
> 
> 
> https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/why-men-should-sit-down-to-pee.355219/


That was ridiculous. I got so much flak from dickheads about that, who seemed personally offended at such a reasonable suggestion


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Good for you.



Notable that it’s all blokes saying it.


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well I wasn’t to know that the Urban consensus would be that it’s a good name for a show. But now I do.


I don't think many of us have much of an opinion whether it's a good name, only that there's a difference between a female-led TV show aimed at women and a male led brewery who's product is aimed primarily at men, and what's acceptable and not acceptable language for them to use. But you understand this. You must understand this. Why are you pretending not to?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> That was ridiculous. I got so much flak from dickheads about that, who seemed personally offended at such a reasonable suggestion


It’s not funny 8ball


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> I don't think many of us have much of an opinion whether it's a good name, only that there's a difference between a female-led TV show aimed at women and a male led brewery who's product is aimed primarily at men, and what's acceptable and not acceptable language for them to use. But you understand this. You must understand this. Why are you pretending not to?



You got me. Although isn’t the jury still out on the whole reclaiming of words thing?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> It’s not funny 8ball



It's very funny. 

WTF did you expect?


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Notable that it’s all blokes saying it.


the women are all really fucking bored of saying it. so am I tbh


----------



## brogdale (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Notable that it’s all blokes saying it.


Nah, you're alright, thanks....on you go.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well I wasn’t to know that the Urban consensus would be that it’s a good name for a show. But now I do.


"Ah but what about what about what about? Gotcha again!" Stop being a knobhead by pretending to be naive.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> It’s not funny 8ball



Well, I didn’t see all of it, but such a massive ding-dong over urinating posture does sound pretty funny.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's very funny.
> 
> WTF did you expect?


I didn’t find it funny much.
I expected a reasonable discussion rather than to be mocked and even have my ‘masculinity’ questioned by people who I naively thought were above that sort of shit


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> "Ah but what about what about what about? Gotcha again!" Stop being a knobhead by pretending to be naive.



Are you genuinely new or a returner?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> Well, I didn’t see all of it, but such a massive ding-dong over urinating posture does sound pretty funny.


It’s not funny when you’re being insulted and mocked for suggesting a very simple and easy way for men to behave more considerately.


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 13, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's very funny.
> 
> WTF did you expect?


its actually funnier than this thread!


----------



## two sheds (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> above that sort of shit


that wasn't the topic of the thread was it?


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> It’s not funny when you’re being insulted and mocked for suggesting a very simple and easy way for men to behave more considerately.



You did kind of set the tone by claiming in your first post that all men who had not already been doing this for years were oafs.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> That was ridiculous. I got so much flak from dickheads about that, who seemed personally offended at such a reasonable suggestion


Yeah - loads of threads are started in order to start a discussion.  They can easily turn into arguments.  But it's what happens when you get a board full of people who don't all agree about absolutely everything.


----------



## chilango (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It came on the TV when I was on my break.


That's not really your _motivation_ though is it?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I expected a reasonable discussion ...



No you didn't. 

You , me, and others had "discussed" many times before, your fondness for sit-down pissing. It had become a board joke and ultimately we agreed to leave it because you were getting cross. 

Then you posted that thread! 

You couldn't possibly have expected it to go any other way unless you're a total moron.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

chilango said:


> That's not really your _motivation_ though is it?



Well ordinarily, I post things here to generate discussion. As that what here is for. What’s your motivation for posting here?


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are you genuinely new or a returner?


I joined at the beginning of last year after lurking for a few weeks. Never been a member before that.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> I joined at the beginning of last year after lurking for a few weeks. Never been a member before that.



Fair enough. Welcome etc


----------



## chilango (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well ordinarily, I post things here to generate discussion. As that what here is for. What’s your motivation for posting here?



On this thread, right now, to add my voice to those saying that the sexist shit deployed by Brewdog, and supported by some posters, isn't ok.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

chilango said:


> On this thread, right now, to add my voice to those saying that the sexist shit deployed by Brewdog, and supported by some posters, isn't ok.



Well you be pleased to learn I haven’t supported Brewdog either.


----------



## chilango (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well you be pleased to learn I haven’t supported Brewdog either.


Good. I'm just not sure what benefit your intervention has. It reads - to me at least - as whataboutery, whether that was intended or not.


----------



## NoXion (Jan 13, 2022)

I don't watch _Loose Women_, but I'm fairly sure it doesn't have a consistent history of being marketed with the kind of wink-wink nudge-nudge edgy bullshit that Brewdog's products have been.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> No you didn't.
> 
> You , me, and others had "discussed" many times before, your fondness for sit-down pissing. It had become a board joke and ultimately we agreed to leave it because you were getting cross.
> 
> ...


that's not how I remember it at all.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

chilango said:


> Good. I'm just not sure what benefit your intervention has. It reads - to me at least - as whataboutery, whether that was intended or not.



I’ve often been of the view that this whole ‘something is or isn’t sexist/racist/etc depending on who is saying it’ just further confuses the layman. Plus there doesn’t appear to be a consensus on it. I’ll admit mischief by throwing it in the mix. But it shouldn’t be off bounds to discuss.


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You got me. Although isn’t the jury still out on the whole reclaiming of words thing?


It's contested whether it's a good thing within marginalised communities, for sure. I'm not totally into it myself, but it's not really my call.


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’ve often been of the view that this whole ‘something is or isn’t sexist/racist/etc depending on who is saying it’ just further confuses the layman.


I'm unconvinced there's very many people who are actually confused by it tbh, just lots of dickheads who say they are cause they want a licence to say racist things etc.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> I'm unconvinced there's very many people who are actually confused by it tbh, just lots of dickheads who say they are cause they want a licence to say racist things etc.



I disagree. For example coloured people bad but people of colour good. It’s basically the same words in a different order.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

But we digress…


----------



## ddraig (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I disagree. For example coloured people bad but people of colour good. It’s basically the same words in a different order.


Sort it out ffs
e2a - YOU digress, who knows why, to take some heat off the "sound" poster maybe, but it's YOU digressing


----------



## chilango (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’ve often been of the view that this whole ‘something is or isn’t sexist/racist/etc depending on who is saying it’ just further confuses the layman. Plus there doesn’t appear to be a consensus on it. I’ll admit mischief by throwing it in the mix. But it shouldn’t be off bounds to discuss.



I'm not keen on the title 'Loose Women' and am far from confident that daytime TV is freed from sexist tropes and discourse regardless of the gender of those involved. But, for lots of reasons, I'm don't think its a particularly relevant example to extend the discussion of BrewDog's marketing.


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I disagree. For example coloured people bad but people of colour good. It’s basically the same words in a different order.


that's not what we're talking about here though? We're talking about marginalised communities reclaiming words that have been used as slurs against them. Can't see what relevance this has to that?


----------



## Edie (Jan 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> I'm unconvinced there's very many people who are actually confused by it tbh, just lots of dickheads who say they are cause they want a licence to say racist things etc.


There’s a lot of older people who use outdated terminology (coloured v poc v bame etc) with no malice intended

ETA oh sorry just seen your above post


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> that's not what we're talking about here though? We're talking about marginalised communities reclaiming words that have been used as slurs against them. Can't see what relevance this has to that?



What falls into acceptable language or not, in whose eyes etc. The continuation of some disallowed language by restructuring it.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

Edie said:


> There’s a lot of older people who use outdated terminology (coloured v poc v bame etc) with no malice intended



There seems to be a lot of confusion over the relevance or otherwise of malice.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2022)

ddraig said:


> Sort it out ffs
> e2a - YOU digress, who knows why, to take some heat off the "sound" poster maybe, but it's YOU digressing



You've done this a few times now and also quoted me, in direct contravention of the board's rules.

As you know, you and I are supposed to be on mutual ignore, which prohibits you from referring to me in any way, so can you stop please?

If it's the case that we are no longer on MI, that's fine too.

I've missed our little chats.


----------



## chilango (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What falls into acceptable language or not, in whose eyes etc. The continuation of some disallowed language by restructuring it.



...but to return to topic, what Brewdog have done here is the opposite of that.

They have knowingly taken what would be a generally inoffensive term in context (Growler as beer container) and linked that with it's offensive use as misogynist slur via their shitty "fnar fnar" branding campaign.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

chilango said:


> ...but to return to topic, what Brewdog have done here is the opposite of that.
> 
> They have knowingly taken what would be a generally inoffensive term in context (Growler as beer container) and linked that with it's offensive use as misogynist slur via their shitty "fnar fnar" branding campaign.



Do you have a link to the specific fnar fnar campaign you have in mind?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

chilango said:


> ...but to return to topic, what Brewdog have done here is the opposite of that.
> 
> They have knowingly taken what would be a generally inoffensive term in context (Growler as beer container) and linked that with it's offensive use as misogynist slur via their shitty "fnar fnar" branding campaign.



I didn’t know that was a sexist term until this thread. I suppose the Northern version would be Slapper, although many women refer to each other as such. I don’t agree with sexism as a marketing device. Reclaimed words or not, you can’t deny that Loose Women are employing the same tactic. What makes it ‘acceptable’ on here is that the show is seen as empowering to women.


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What falls into acceptable language or not, in whose eyes etc. The continuation of some disallowed language by restructuring it.


These things are not always going to be easy to unpick, but I reckon if you listen to people and are prepared to back down when you fuck up you can usually find a way through without too much trouble. I think maybe if you feel something goes too far or is difficult to understand there's probably ways of opening up discussion into it that don't make you look like some twitter edgelord too.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I didn’t know that was a sexist term until this thread. I suppose the Northern version would be Slapper, although many women refer to each other as such. I don’t agree with sexism as a marketing device. Reclaimed words or not, you can’t deny that Loose Women are employing the same tactic. What makes it ‘acceptable’ on here is that the show is seen as empowering to women.


Is it?  Personally, I find it utterly shite.


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Is it?  Personally, I find it utterly shite.


it isn't, he made that bit up


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2022)

This is where we get to when ‘idpol is just divisive bollocks’ becomes common thought


----------



## chilango (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> Do you have a link to the specific fnar fnar campaign you have in mind?


dessiato posted it up thread.


----------



## chilango (Jan 13, 2022)

...and if you're not sure. Here's a picture of my growler. I'm sure you can spot the difference.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

chilango said:


> dessiato posted it up thread.



Oh, I'm having trouble pulling it out of his posts, just wanted a look.
dessiato - could I have the post number?


----------



## xenon (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> that's not how I remember it at all.



It has been a quiet afternoon, I just read through it again. It is how Spymaster described.


----------



## Poot (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I didn’t know that was a sexist term until this thread. I suppose the Northern version would be Slapper, although many women refer to each other as such. I don’t agree with sexism as a marketing device. Reclaimed words or not, *you can’t deny that Loose Women are employing the same tactic*. What makes it ‘acceptable’ on here is that the show is seen as empowering to women.


Words when spoken by different people mean a different thing.

But you know that, you're just on the wind up. Again.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> These things are not always going to be easy to unpick, but I reckon if you listen to people and are prepared to back down when you fuck up you can usually find a way through without too much trouble. I think maybe if you feel something goes too far or is difficult to understand there's probably ways of opening up discussion into it that don't make you look like some twitter edgelord too.



well, yes.  there are ways of dealing with it.

option a - tell women / people from whichever minority group they are wrong and that as a man / white person / straight person (or any combination thereof) that your opinion on what constitutes misogyny / racism / sexism is more valid than theirs

option b - listen to what women / people from whichever minority group are saying, think about it, and be a bit more careful about using particular term/s again

doesn't seem that complicated a choice from where i'm sitting...


----------



## xenon (Jan 13, 2022)

I’m surprised loose women is still on the air.  I saw it about 20 years ago. It was shite.


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> well, yes.  there are ways of dealing with it.
> 
> option a - tell women / people from whichever minority group they are wrong and that as a man / white person / straight person (or any combination thereof) that your opinion on what constitutes misogyny / racism / sexism is more valid than theirs
> 
> ...


I think this is a bit too simplistic & binary an approach too though tbf.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> I think this is a bit too simplistic & binary an approach too though tbf.



well yes, as with most things, there are shades of grey, but there are a people whose tendency is towards option a with a side order of insults.  (and i don't just mean on this thread)


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

Poot said:


> Words when spoken by different people mean a different thing.
> 
> But you know that, you're just on the wind up. Again.



I don’t see much difference. Dog whistles to edginess but with enough of a double meaning to obscure that.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

xenon said:


> I’m surprised loose women is still on the air.  I saw it about 20 years ago. It was shite.



I think it started around the time of that Spice Girls / 'Girl Power' phase.
Was never meant to be feminism as such, just daytime telly.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Fair enough. Welcome etc


But you don't make me feel welcome. Unless I keep quiet about offensive shit.


----------



## co-op (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> I think it started around the time of that Spice Girls / 'Girl Power' phase.
> Was never meant to be feminism as such, just daytime telly.



Surely "Loose Women" is both ironic - ie it is slang for sexually autonomous women - boo hiss etc, yet these 'loose women' are just talking, but also reclamatory - ie that it is saying yes so what if we're loose? 

It also makes a point somewhere that women talking confidently in public were often (still are?) stigmatised as sexually promiscuous in order to try and shut them up via shame. So although it's using innuendo/sexual allusion I don't see active sexism there - I mean pity the actual prog was actually pretty bland but the naming is not sexist imo, if anything the reverse, it's undermining gender stereotypical language that was used to control women.

I don't see how any of this is the case with a beer aimed at men using words like Growler.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> But you don't make me feel welcome. Unless I keep quiet about offensive shit.



I don’t expect you to be quiet at all.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 13, 2022)

Trolls bolstered again, sigh!


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

co-op said:


> Surely "Loose Women" is both ironic - ie it is slang for sexually autonomous women - boo hiss etc, yet these 'loose women' are just talking, but also reclamatory - ie that it is saying yes so what if we're loose?



Yes, that's what I took to be the thinking.

I don't know who you are addressing with the rest of your post - have you got posters mixed up?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

co-op said:


> Surely "Loose Women" is both ironic - ie it is slang for sexually autonomous women - boo hiss etc, yet these 'loose women' are just talking, but also reclamatory - ie that it is saying yes so what if we're loose?
> 
> It also makes a point somewhere that women talking confidently in public were often (still are?) stigmatised as sexually promiscuous in order to try and shut them up via shame. So although it's using innuendo/sexual allusion I don't see active sexism there - I mean pity the actual prog was actually pretty bland but the naming is not sexist imo, if anything the reverse, it's undermining gender stereotypical language that was used to control women.



Yes but the producers aren’t unaware of the connotations so the strategy is the same.


----------



## chilango (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> Oh, I'm having trouble pulling it out of his posts, just wanted a look.
> dessiato - could I have the post number?



Hang on....are saying you've been busy posting without knowing what you're talking about?


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> its actually funnier than this thread!


So it is still a big laugh for you after all.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

chilango said:


> Hang on....are saying you've been busy posting without knowing what you're talking about?



There were a few things posted - just wanted to make sure I'm looking at the right one.
When dess gets back you'll be able to take a look too.


----------



## chilango (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> There were a few things posted - just wanted to make sure I'm looking at the right one.
> When dess gets back you'll be able to take a look too.



I already know what I'm talking about. It's ok.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 13, 2022)

Fuck off and grow the fuck up 8ball 
Of course you'll react with a pathetic smiley again...


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

chilango said:


> I already know what I'm talking about. It's ok.



There, there.


----------



## killer b (Jan 13, 2022)

ddraig said:


> Fuck off and grow the fuck up 8ball
> Of course you'll react with a pathetic smiley again...


honestly, put the weirdo on ignore.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

ddraig said:


> Fuck off and grow the fuck up 8ball
> Of course you'll react with a pathetic smiley again...



That's not a pathetic smiley, that's a "love smiley".


----------



## Edie (Jan 13, 2022)

This thread is now just weird. I’d step away equationgirl theres nothing more that needs to be said.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 13, 2022)

Edie said:


> This thread is now just weird. I’d step away equationgirl theres nothing more that needs to be said.


I think you have a point, Edie.

Also it's the same few posters being disruptive time and again, wrecking discussions, I wish they would stop trolling.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 13, 2022)

killer b said:


> honestly, put the weirdo on ignore.


I have, a while ago, they still beg for attention


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I think you have a point, Edie.
> 
> Also it's the same few posters being disruptive time and again, wrecking discussions, I wish they would stop trolling.


they won't and for some reason we have to put up with it


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> they won't and for some reason we have to put up with it



Oh, look!
The gang’s all back together.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> Oh, look!
> The gang’s all back together.


say something interesting for once


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> say something interesting for once



What, like “say something interesting for once”?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> What, like “say something interesting for once”?


No, something that's not glib, insensitive and showing a total lack of awareness of anything whatsoever


----------



## 8ball (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> No, something that's not glib, insensitive and a total lack of awareness of anything whatsoever



Something honest and aware, like one of your posts, you mean.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jan 13, 2022)

8ball said:


> Something honest and aware, like one of your posts, you mean.


yes


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> No, something that's not glib, insensitive and showing a total lack of awareness of anything whatsoever


Like this, you mean?


Orang Utan said:


> Get in the sea then


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Like this, you mean?


That's not glib as such, it's more a signal of utter disdain from a poster and has been since at least 2016:









						Get in the sea: when is a death threat not a death threat?
					

Labour MP Thangam Debbonaire has been criticised for overreacting to a popular internet joke. But are memes and menace really mutally exclusive?




					www.newstatesman.com
				




It's not a death threat.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> That's not glib as such, it's more a signal of utter disdain from a poster and has been since at least 2016:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


No, but it IS glib and insensitive.


----------



## Steel Icarus (Jan 13, 2022)

Great thread


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> No, but it IS glib and insensitive.


I don't think it's glib, I think it was a sign of Orang Utan's intense frustration with the way the discussion was going at the time, and yes, potentially insensitive, however, given the way people (like brogdale and me) were being treated when genuine complaints were being made, absolutely no more insensitive than the way others were behaving, and likely even less so.

At the time it seemed more like a case of people dishing it out but not liking the same aimed at them.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> absolutely no more insensitive than the way others were behaving, and likely even less so.


I fear Orang Utan may feel somewhat damned with faint praise here.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 13, 2022)

Anyway, on the thread topic, have we discusse/ fought about this yet:









						BrewDog team up with Rizzlekicks' Jordan Stephens to launch SAD AF | Scotsman Food and Drink
					

Rizzle Kicks’ Jordan Stephens, co-founder of mental health campaign #IAMWHOLE, has called on men to talk to friends and family about depression this January with the launch of a new alcohol-free, charity beer from BrewDog, SAD AF. Mental health campaigner and popstar, Jordan Stephens, wants to r ...




					foodanddrink.scotsman.com
				




I don't know how I feel about this, on the one hand good that it's raising money for charity (although I am dubious of how much) and raising awareness of mental health, on the over I feel like it's poking fun at anyone with a mental illness by calling them sad in a derogatory way.

ETA: and the campaign is aimed at encouraging men only.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

A liberal dilemma.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I think you have a point, Edie.
> 
> Also it's the same few posters being disruptive time and again, wrecking discussions, I wish they would stop trolling.


I've banned 8ball off the thread for a week, with others to follow if this crap continues.


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Anyway, on the thread topic, have we discusse/ fought about this yet:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Especially odd choice (to aim it at men) when seasonal affective disorder is 50% more commonly found amongst women


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 13, 2022)

editor said:


> I've banned 8ball off the thread for a week, with others to follow if this crap continues.


Thank you, I appreciate that.


----------



## editor (Jan 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Anyway, on the thread topic, have we discusse/ fought about this yet:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It's great when companies do something to help charities but this is probably the same old corporate bullshit though (see: Brewdog water for NHS centres, Brewdog giving up their bars for vaccination centres, Brewdog making sanitiser etc etc, all with limited edition product tie-ins).

Instead of just giving the money to a charity and shutting the fuck up about it, they throw around the cash on a celebrity video that looks great and make sure absolutely everyone gets to hear about their wonderful selfless giving by allocating a fat PR budget to promote it all. And you'll most likely hear nothing about how much money it raised (see also: Brixton Brewery's Age Concern campaign, complete with expensive video/PR and the tie-in product).


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> Especially odd choice (to aim it at men) when seasonal affective disorder is 50% more commonly found amongst women


Well, and this is just my experience, over the past five or so years I would say it's become s popular thing for some employers to partner with a men's mental health organisation. Often this is for only one or two virtue signalling posts on LinkedIn a year, but sometimes extends to press releases or activities within the workplace.

I once asked an employer why, for the nth year in a row, they were partnering with a men's suicide prevention charity when the suicide rate amongst women was increasing faster. The HR person responded that women were less than 10% of the workforce so they were focusing on the majority. 

The actual words used were something like 'that low percentage is not worth bothering with'. As a woman with mental health issues, I was not encouraged.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 13, 2022)

editor said:


> It's great when companies do something to help charities but this is probably the same old corporate bullshit though (see: Brewdog water for NHS centres, Brewdog giving up their bars for vaccination centres, Brewdog making sanitiser etc etc, all with limited edition product tie-ins).
> 
> Instead of just giving the money to a charity and shutting the fuck up about it, they throw around the cash on a celebrity video that looks great and make sure absolutely everyone gets to hear about their wonderful selfless giving by allocating a fat PR budget to promote it all. And you'll most likely hear nothing about hoe much money it raised (see also: Brixton Brewery's Age Concern campaign, completer with expensive video/PR and the tie-in product).


Yes, I really want to know about the money side of this. I want to know if they're going to cap the donation level, for example, and what that cap amount is.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> Especially odd choice (to aim it at men) when seasonal affective disorder is 50% more commonly found amongst women


Wrong way round. 

They’re not aiming it at men _per se_, they are appealing to their market (which is primarily laddish blokes aged 18 to about 40). Same with most of their marketing. So they’ve highlighted an issue that will resonate with that cohort (SAD and depression) which is definitely relevant. 

No doubt the antis here will try to argue that BD don’t really give a toss about bloke’s mental health, and they’d be right, but that’s how marketing and advertising works, isn’t it? Show me ANY corporate program that is truly altruistic.


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Wrong way round.
> 
> They’re not aiming it at men _per se_, they are appealing to their market (which is primarily laddish blokes aged 18 to about 40). Same with most of their marketing. So they’ve highlighted an issue that will resonate with that cohort (SAD and depression) which is definitely relevant.
> 
> No doubt the antis here will try to argue that BD don’t really give a toss about bloke’s mental health, and they’d be right, but that’s how marketing and advertising works, isn’t it? Show me ANY corporate program that is truly altruistic.


You are completely wrong as you’d know if you bothered reading the link.  It is explicitly aimed at men, the whole campaign including their contribution to it.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> A liberal dilemma.


You know that thing where you said you were going to try to do better? Can you do that please, and not take over where 8ball left off? Please?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 13, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Wrong way round.
> 
> They’re not aiming it at men _per se_, they are appealing to their market (which is primarily laddish blokes aged 18 to about 40). Same with most of their marketing. So they’ve highlighted an issue that will resonate with that cohort (SAD and depression) which is definitely relevant.
> 
> No doubt the antis here will try to argue that BD don’t really give a toss about bloke’s mental health, and they’d be right, but that’s how marketing and advertising works, isn’t it? Show me ANY corporate program that is truly altruistic.


For an altruistic programme (not program) you could check out a women-owned company called Archer and Olive who runs a initiative every year on her birthday to give people a chance to get some of her products (notebooks and journalling) for free. She also runs various programmes throughout the year where the purchase of a notebook means one goes to a local shelter, for example.

Yes, that's my opinion, of her altruism. But her whole company is set up around giving back and journalling as a mental health tool. That's more than most companies.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> You are completely wrong as you’d know if you bothered reading the link.  It is explicitly aimed at men, the whole campaign including their contribution to it.



I posted that in good faith. 

Set-down your cudgels for an evening, Belboy, and play the ball instead of the man. 

You might learn something.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> For an altruistic programme (not program) you could check out a women-owned company called Archer and Olive who runs a initiative every year on her birthday to give people a chance to get some of her products (notebooks and journalling) for free. She also runs various programmes throughout the year where the purchase of a notebook means one goes to a local shelter, for example.
> 
> Yes, that's my opinion, of her altruism. But her whole company is set up around giving back and journalling as a mental health tool. That's more than most companies.



Counterfactual finger-wagging over "program/programme" aside; you're comparing apple seeds with oak trees.

If you're genuinely up for a discussion about corporate development/finance and marketing, I am too. It's what I do for a living.

I'm pissed now but how about we have a reset, and pick this up at the weekend?

Pukka offer.


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I posted that in good faith.
> 
> Set-down your cudgels for an evening, Belboy, and play the ball instead of the man.
> 
> You might learn something.


You didn’t bother to read the link because you’re too arrogant to think you can learn here.  You’re a liar and a fool and little doubt you’ll be following 8ball soon.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> You didn’t bother to read the link because you’re too arrogant to think you can learn here.  You’re a liar and a fool and little doubt you’ll be following 8ball soon.



Have a lie-down, bellers. 

A bit of vitamin c in the morning


----------



## belboid (Jan 13, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Have a lie-down, bellers.
> 
> A bit of vitamin c in the morning


Your playmates gone.  Time you apologised for your comments.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 13, 2022)

belboid said:


> Your playmates gone.  Time you apologised for your comments.


Get in the sea, kanja


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> You know that thing where you said you were going to try to do better?


You could just maybe engage with what I say that you disagree with rather than the theatre that makes you condescending.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 13, 2022)

editor said:


> It's great when companies do something to help charities but this is probably the same old corporate bullshit though (see: Brewdog water for NHS centres, Brewdog giving up their bars for vaccination centres, Brewdog making sanitiser etc etc, all with limited edition product tie-ins).
> 
> Instead of just giving the money to a charity and shutting the fuck up about it, they throw around the cash on a celebrity video that looks great and make sure absolutely everyone gets to hear about their wonderful selfless giving by allocating a fat PR budget to promote it all. And you'll most likely hear nothing about hoe much money it raised (see also: Brixton Brewery's Age Concern campaign, completer with expensive video/PR and the tie-in product).


All companies who partner with charities do so for PR reasons, surely?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> All companies who partner with charities do so for PR reasons, surely?


Royalty and the super rich create their own. Presumably their own money doesn't end up there. or not all of it.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> All companies who partner with charities do so for PR reasons, surely?


I don't. And not all Brixton companies who raise money for charities do it for the reflected glory either. It's a despicable business in my eyes.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 14, 2022)

editor said:


> I don't. And not all Brixton companies who raise money for charities do it for the reflected glory either. It's a despicable business in my eyes.


Perhaps I should have said "big companies".


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 14, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You could just maybe engage with what I say that you disagree with rather than the theatre that makes you condescending.


I would love to, but it's a bit hard when you post only a few words like 'a liberal dilemma'. What's the dilemma? 

I'm not being condescending, it's hard to engage when you post snippets.


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 14, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> All companies who partner with charities do so for PR reasons, surely?


that's why people/companies make such a big thing about it when they do it.


----------



## chilango (Jan 14, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Anyway, on the thread topic, have we discusse/ fought about this yet:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm pretty ambivalent about this. I mean, yeah, normalising men talking about this stuff is a good thing and raising a bit of cash for the campaign a bonus...

...but ime the best thing companies can do for the mental health of their employees is to improve working conditions.


----------



## nastyned (Jan 14, 2022)

This is one to watch: BBC One - Disclosure, Series 4, The Truth about BrewDog


----------



## co-op (Jan 14, 2022)

8ball said:


> I don't know who you are addressing with the rest of your post - have you got posters mixed up?



Yes sorry, I quoted you instead of Magnus McGinty


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2022)

chilango said:


> I'm pretty ambivalent about this. I mean, yeah, normalising men talking about this stuff is a good thing and raising a bit of cash for the campaign a bonus...
> 
> ...but ime the best thing companies can do for the mental health of their employees is to improve working conditions.


Indeed. It's all a bit rich coming from Brewdog with their well documented 'toxic' workplace conditions and refusal to allow unions to help their workers.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2022)

nastyned said:


> This is one to watch: BBC One - Disclosure, Series 4, The Truth about BrewDog


Looks like it's going to be everything some of us expected too, but I doubt if it will bother the shareholders and fanboys here:



> Just how ‘punk’ is BrewDog? Reporter Mark Daly investigates the truth behind the beer company’s marketing and financial hype, *and he hears disturbing claims about BrewDog’s corporate culture.*





> The Ellon-based beer company fast became an international success story by setting themselves up as the bad boys of brewing, ripping up the rule book and ridiculing Big Beer at every opportunity. They’ve faced claims of a toxic and misogynistic work culture from former staff, problems BrewDog says are now behind them. The company says it has learned from past mistakes and most current staff enjoy working there. Disclosure hears from former employees who say they found it a miserable and uncomfortable experience. Some loyal customers now say they regret investing their savings in BrewDog.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 14, 2022)

editor said:


> Looks like it's going to be everything some of us expected too, but I doubt if it will bother the shareholders and fanboys here:


Problems behind them my arse. If they were, they would have made sure all the growler embossed flagons were not made available to be given away. Just for starters.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 14, 2022)

chilango said:


> ...but ime the best thing companies can do for the mental health of their employees is to improve working conditions.


This times infinity.

The wellbeing agenda is pretty dodgy. My employer took mental health out of the responsibility of OHS (where unions still have a relatively strong presence) and put it under the control of HR.
So we have gone from a situation where mental health was considered at a collective level and in respect to working conditions to one where it is an individuals responsibility to ensure their wellbeing. So no more consideration about excessive workloads now it is about knitting/colouring/calm rooms

Fuck that shite!


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 14, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> This times infinity.
> 
> The wellbeing agenda is pretty dodgy. My employer took mental health out of the responsibility of OHS (where unions still have a relatively strong presence) and put it under the control of HR.
> So we have gone from a situation where mental health was considered at a collective level and in respect to working conditions to one where it is an individuals responsibility to ensure their wellbeing. So no more consideration about excessive workloads now it is about knitting/colouring/calm rooms
> ...



Similar at my workplace.  The ridiculous workloads are still there, but we can now do a meditation at lunchtime.  So that's okay.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2022)

Amen.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2022)

Looks like a load of other people are seeing through Brewdog's bullshit


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2022)

Here's the request for a union which Brewdog ignored.



> Dear Mr. Watt, Mr. Dickie & Mr. McDowall,
> Since 9th June, hundreds of Brewdog workers (past and present) have signed a collective letter outlining a “culture of fear” permeating from the very top of the organisation which has allowed “workers to be treated like objects: to be harassed, assaulted, belittled and insulted.”
> 
> On 1st July, the company announced that an undisclosed 3rd party had been appointed to carry out the exit interviews which will prove necessary to understanding what has gone wrong. Not only is this a breach of GDPR, but workers have no faith in a process which is not fully independent and transparent.
> ...











						Brewdog Workers Deserve Collective Recognition
					

In order to ensure the sustainable change needed across Brewdog, workers deserve a collective voice through their union.




					www.megaphone.org.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 14, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> The wellbeing agenda is pretty dodgy.



It’s not a wellbeing agenda, it’s a marketing campaign.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2022)

editor said:


> Looks like a load of other people are seeing through Brewdog's bullshit



1 reply, 2 retweets and 12 likes, and 12 likes. not the tweets i'd have chosen to illustrate the claim 'looks like a load of other people are seeing through brewdog's bullshit'.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> 1 reply, 2 retweets and 12 likes, and 12 likes. not the tweets i'd have chosen to illustrate the claim 'looks like a load of other people are seeing through brewdog's bullshit'.


When the comments are coming from_ unions_, I tend to pay attention rather than looking at how many likes an individual tweet has got.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2022)

editor said:


> When the comments are coming from_ unions_, I tend to pay attention rather than looking at how many likes an individual tweet has got.


a union. not unions. unless you mean punks with purpose is a union too.

and there are few metrics by which to see if a tweet is reaching people - likes, replies and retweets may be crude but are pretty much all we have


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> a union. not unions. unless you mean punks with purpose is a union too.
> 
> and there are few metrics by which to see if a tweet is reaching people - likes, replies and retweets may be crude but are pretty much all we have


What's the matter with you today?

I posted up tweets from the  Brewery Workers Union and  Unite Hospitality.

Two different unions.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2022)

editor said:


> What's the matter with you today?
> 
> I posted up tweets from the  Brewery Workers Union and  Unite Hospitality.
> 
> ...


what's the matter with you, you gone daft or something? the unite tweet isn't in your post 'Looks like a load of other people are seeing through Brewdog's bullshit' note: a lot of OTHER people. that is, not the people you've already mentioned.  why are you trying to crowbar a tweet from one post into another?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 14, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Perhaps I should have said "big companies".



Indeed. The notion that a 2 billion pound multinational is comparable to a handful of tinpot Brixton outfits is laughable.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> what's the matter with you, you gone daft or something? the unite tweet isn't in your post 'Looks like a load of other people are seeing through Brewdog's bullshit' note: a lot of OTHER people. that is, not the people you've already mentioned.  why are you trying to crowbar a tweet from one post into another?


I'm sorry you suddenly seem unable to comprehend how an ongoing discussion on a forum works, even when the posts are right next to each other.


I'm out.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 14, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> All companies who partner with charities do so for PR reasons, surely?



Also tax sometimes.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2022)

editor said:


> I'm out.


the edit for the best really


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 14, 2022)

editor said:


> I'm sorry you suddenly seem unable to comprehend how an ongoing discussion on a forum works, even when the posts are right next to each other.
> 
> 
> I'm out.


there's another edit, a lovely passive aggressive line there. edit 3 i think? yes. the posts are right next to each other. the one post with a tweet from unite, the next saying loads of other people are getting on the bandwagon. and that's the one i replied to. i do not know why when i have responded specifically to what you said in the second post you want to crowbar the first post in too. but don't tell me, i don't really want to know.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 14, 2022)

Also, it's easy for a company to partner with a mental health charity or initiative, put out a few press releases and maybe an ad campaign. 

Making real culture change by looking at workload distribution, working hours, hiring sufficient people, ensuring there's an actual zero tolerance on bullying, sexism, racism, misogyny, anti LGBTQ+ behaviours, ageism - all of that is hard to do. It takes effort and time.


----------



## editor (Jan 14, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Also, it's easy for a company to partner with a mental health charity or initiative, put out a few press releases and maybe an ad campaign.
> 
> Making real culture change by looking at workload distribution, working hours, hiring sufficient people, ensuring there's an actual zero tolerance on bullying, sexism, racism, misogyny, anti LGBTQ+ behaviours, ageism - all of that is hard to do. It takes effort and time.


I get sent loads of press releases from swishy, expensive PR companies bigging up relatively_ tiny_ charitable donations from major companies with some Brixton connection. It's pathetic.


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 14, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> It's not about intention, it's about how something is received.





Peter Painter said:


> I think it is about both.



I've been thinking about this some more. I still think that both are important but on reflection I think that you're right to place more emphasis upon how something is received than upon how it is intended. 

However, I still think that intention is crucial in establishing the context. I would disagree with anybody who argues that intention is wholly irrelevant. I think that that mode of thought contains within it the seeds of a new fascism.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 14, 2022)

Peter Painter said:


> I've been thinking about this some more. I still think that both are important but on reflection I think that you're right to place more emphasis upon how something is received than upon how it is intended.
> 
> However, I still think that intention is crucial in establishing the context. I would disagree with anybody who argues that intention is wholly irrelevant. I think that that mode of thought contains within it the seeds of a new fascism.


You can have the noblest of intentions and still end up causing massive offence.


----------



## Peter Painter (Jan 14, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> You can have the noblest of intentions and still end up causing massive offence.



Yes, indeed, this is very true. But if whoever it is who has taken offence also has noble intentions the unfortunate situation can be easily resolved. I imagine that this would probably involve an apology and possibly some discussion.

For me the real problem is those people who don't care if they cause offence. Or worse, those who are actively seeking to offend.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 15, 2022)

dessiato will you be watching this? BBC Programme Index


----------



## editor (Jan 15, 2022)

LOL


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 15, 2022)

Following the Amazon packing guidelines I see.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 15, 2022)

Got this today for a pair of shoe laces from Amazon



There was a load of crumpled brown paper in there too, to stop them rattling around.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 15, 2022)

redsquirrel said:


> This times infinity.
> 
> The wellbeing agenda is pretty dodgy. My employer took mental health out of the responsibility of OHS (where unions still have a relatively strong presence) and put it under the control of HR.
> So we have gone from a situation where mental health was considered at a collective level and in respect to working conditions to one where it is an individuals responsibility to ensure their wellbeing. So no more consideration about excessive workloads now it is about knitting/colouring/calm rooms
> ...


Reminds of seeing this cartoon during the last round of UCU strikes:


----------



## editor (Jan 18, 2022)

Brewdog on Twitter


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 18, 2022)

I can see BD breaking up if things are really as bad as these claims appear. They can't possibly survive.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 18, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> I can see BD breaking up if things are really as bad as these claims appear. They can't possibly survive.


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 19, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> I can see BD breaking up if things are really as bad as these claims appear. They can't possibly survive.


what was emma shearer claiming? I didn't see anything in the tweet that was specific?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 19, 2022)

She doesn't seem to agree with the extremists on this thread, anyway.


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> what was emma shearer claiming? I didn't see anything in the tweet that was specific?


She literally explains why women are so reluctant to detail the abuse they received.  So what is your point?


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 19, 2022)

editor said:


> She literally explains why women are so reluctant to detail the abuse they received.  So what is your point?
> 
> View attachment 306607


she seems to make specific positive points about Brewdog, as per Teuchters post as opposed to more general points about toxic cultures in your post.


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> she seems to make specific positive points about Brewdog, as per Teuchters post as opposed to more general points about toxic cultures in your post.


LOL. Her post is specifically about Brewdog. It is not positive. 
Go troll elsewhere.


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 19, 2022)

editor said:


> LOL. Her post is specifically about Brewdog. It is not positive.
> Go troll elsewhere.





She literally uses the word positive! 

I'm not trolling. I am being gaslit!


----------



## belboid (Jan 19, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> View attachment 306620
> 
> 
> She literally uses the word positive!
> ...


positive - for the beer industry.  Not human beings.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 19, 2022)

She says she wants Brewdog to succeed, and that it can be great. She wants to see it change and doesn't want a boycott.

You lot are trying to twist her sensible words to fit with your extreme views.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 19, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> View attachment 306620
> 
> 
> She literally uses the word positive!
> ...


Respectively, you are not being gaslit.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 19, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I'm not trolling. I am being gaslit!


you are. you aren't.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 19, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> what was emma shearer claiming? I didn't see anything in the tweet that was specific?


Does it have to be specific to be valid? She explains clearly why she isn't more specific in her tweet.

I know this is a lengthy thread but you would do yourself a favour if you read more of it.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 19, 2022)

You are not being gaslit DaphneM . It's all in your head. You're imagining it.


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 19, 2022)

belboid said:


> positive - for the beer industry.  Not human beings.



for everyone


----------



## brogdale (Jan 19, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> View attachment 306648
> for everyone


That is what Emma said, yes.
It is possible to take what she says about the company at face value without necessarily agreeing with her best wishes for it's commercial success.


----------



## seeformiles (Jan 19, 2022)

Brewdog flouted US laws over beer imports
					

The Scottish beer giant shipped hundreds of kegs of beer to America which had not been legally approved.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## editor (Jan 19, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> Brewdog flouted US laws over beer imports
> 
> 
> The Scottish beer giant shipped hundreds of kegs of beer to America which had not been legally approved.
> ...


Once again the company has been caught out putting its workers under undue pressure in the name of fat profits for themselves. What a scummy company they are..



> *Scottish beer giant Brewdog sent multiple shipments of beer to the US, in contravention of US federal laws, a BBC investigation has found.*
> Staff at its Ellon brewery told the BBC they were put under pressure in 2016 and 2017 to ship beer with ingredients that had not been legally approved.
> One US-based importer said they had been deceived by Brewdog.
> In a social media post on Wednesday, Brewdog CEO James Watt admitted to "taking shortcuts" with the process.


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jan 19, 2022)

that equity for punks offering might not be such a winner if they have uncle sam on their case


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 20, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> that equity for punks offering might not be such a winner if they have uncle sam on their case


The TTB told the BBC that a three-year statute of limitations prevented any enforcement action being taken, and in any case, it would have to have been initiated against the US-based importer, who is legally responsible for the shipments.


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> The TTB told the BBC that a three-year statute of limitations prevented any enforcement action being taken, and in any case, it would have to have been initiated against the US-based importer, who is legally responsible for the shipments.


Would that be the importer who said that they had been "deceived by Brewdog"?
What's your thoughts on the staff that were put under pressure to push through illegal shipments?


----------



## nastyned (Jan 20, 2022)

It's started kicking off before the documentary has been shown:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">James Watt is desperately trying to pre-empt next week&#39;s BBC exposè by yet again lying about and gaslighting the people he abused.<br><br>I resigned from Brewdog because James and the bar division wilfully endangerered the health of myself and my team. Please add to and RT. <a href="https://t.co/m2JNiYxuaj">pic.twitter.com/m2JNiYxuaj</a></p>&mdash; Ben Duckworth (@DuckTakes) <a href="">January 20, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 20, 2022)




----------



## friedaweed (Jan 20, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> View attachment 306757


Sad as fuck?


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 20, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Got this today for a pair of shoe laces from Amazon
> 
> View attachment 306117
> 
> There was a load of crumpled brown paper in there too, to stop them rattling around.


Use the brown paper and cardboard box to make some shoes to use the laces on. This will achieve a carbon neutral outcome. Don't they have shops in London that sell laces mucker?


----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2022)

nastyned said:


> It's started kicking off before the documentary has been shown:
> 
> <blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">James Watt is desperately trying to pre-empt next week&#39;s BBC exposè by yet again lying about and gaslighting the people he abused.<br><br>I resigned from Brewdog because James and the bar division wilfully endangerered the health of myself and my team. Please add to and RT. <a href="https://t.co/m2JNiYxuaj">pic.twitter.com/m2JNiYxuaj</a></p>&mdash; Ben Duckworth (@DuckTakes) <a href="">January 20, 2022</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>



Utterly despicable.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 20, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Use the brown paper and cardboard box to make some shoes to use the laces on. This will achieve a carbon neutral outcome. Don't they have shops in London that sell laces mucker?


You wouldn’t believe how hard it was to find a pair the right thickness!


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 20, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Sad as fuck?


seasonal affective disorder


----------



## brogdale (Jan 20, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> seasonal affective disorder


that's SAD...it's the AF that makes it ever so edgy.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 20, 2022)

Sad as fuck means crap. Which is a strange thing to call a product you’re selling. Although it doesn’t contain alcohol I suppose.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> that's SAD...it's the AF that makes it ever so edgy.


Yup. They _keep on_ doing this. Again and again. It’s cringe-making.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 20, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Sad as fuck?


Sad Alcohol Free, although one can't help but take the meaning you said and they know it.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 20, 2022)

And as pointed out last week, Seasonal Affective Disorder tends to affect more women than men, and was it a men's mental health charity they partnered with,?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 20, 2022)

Sad af doesn’t mean seasonal affective disorder though.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 20, 2022)

So many ways of finding the shits and giggles in that, isn't there?

They're such jokers, aren't they?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> So many ways of finding the shits and giggles in that, isn't there?
> 
> They're such jokers, aren't they?


Sad as fuck means crap/pathetic. I’m scratching my head tbh.


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 20, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> seasonal affective disorder


No I got that bit it was the AF part I was jokingly referring to. Obviously it's not funny when you have to explain it, so as you were.


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 20, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Sad Alcohol Free, although one can't help but take the meaning you said and they know it.


Ahh, I didn't see it was alcohol free, new glasses. I brew beer so thought it was some sort of catchy hop or pale ale thing they were pulling and then I remembered..it's brewdog


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 20, 2022)

*Pushes glasses further up nose. 

I see it now, still looks shit. The rather embarrassing part is I did actually go to spec savers for these varinogoods


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 20, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Sad Alcohol Free, although one can't help but take the meaning you said and they know it.


This is "growler" all over again.

They know what they're doing. Act innocent while being horrendously ignorant and offensive.

They truly are an awful company.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 20, 2022)

Without the charity donation it would be a pisstake. Calling a depressed person "sad af" is too close to the bone to be a joke. Paying a charity so a beer company can be rude about mental health for a bit of a press splash, not a good look imho.

I think they do some kind of deal with alcohol-free beer in their bars where you get free top ups after buying a pint. A far better idea. Bet it tastes shit and is overpriced though


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 20, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Without the charity donation it would be a pisstake. Calling a depressed person "sad af" is too close to the bone to be a joke. Paying a charity so a beer company can be rude about mental health for a bit of a press splash, not a good look imho.
> 
> I think they do some kind of deal with alcohol-free beer in their bars where you get free top ups after buying a pint. A far better idea. Bet it tastes shit and is overpriced though


yeh after six or eight of their af offerings most people would feel the need to chunder.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh after six or eight of their af offerings most people would feel the need to chunder.


There only little cans, 6 or 8 on a hot day, easy peasy.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 20, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> And as pointed out last week, Seasonal Affective Disorder tends to affect more women than men, and was it a men's mental health charity they partnered with,?


What we know is that women are more likely to be diagnosed with it, but we also know that women are more likely to seek help for mental health problems.

These campaigns are often about encouraging men to seek help when they need it, and reducing the stigma of doing so.

And men who become depressed are often more likely to drink too much and/or become involved in violent behaviour and everyone including women suffer the consequences of that.

But what absolute monsters Brewdog are for deciding to promote something that targets a large portion of the demographic who make up their market.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 20, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Without the charity donation it would be a pisstake. Calling a depressed person "sad af" is too close to the bone to be a joke. Paying a charity so a beer company can be rude about mental health for a bit of a press splash, not a good look imho.
> 
> I think they do some kind of deal with alcohol-free beer in their bars where you get free top ups after buying a pint. A far better idea. Bet it tastes shit and is overpriced though


Are they doing that though? Some folk here are interpreting it as such but I don’t see it myself.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 20, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are they doing that though? Some folk here are interpreting it as such but I don’t see it myself.


Why call it SAD AF? They could use any name under the sun. 

How many people with genuine mental health issues are told "Oh stop being sad, cheer up, what's the matter with you?"


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 20, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are they doing that though? Some folk here are interpreting it as such but I don’t see it myself.


Sure they are. Each to their own though, won't hold it against you


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 20, 2022)

It's a pisstake.

Because that's what Brewdog fucking does.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 20, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are they doing that though? Some folk here are interpreting it as such but I don’t see it myself.


Maybe neoliberal edge lord marketing is not the career for you, then?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 20, 2022)

teuchter said:


> What we know is that women are more likely to be diagnosed with it, but we also know that women are more likely to seek help for mental health problems.
> 
> These campaigns are often about encouraging men to seek help when they need it, and reducing the stigma of doing so.
> 
> ...


Much of what you say there makes sense, (though I'd want to see gender based claims backed up with peer-reviewed stuff), but none of that means that campaign funding should be dependent on charity donations linked to a brewer's 'edgy' marketing campaign.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Much of what you say there makes sense, (though I'd want to see gender based claims backed up with peer-reviewed stuff), but none of that means that campaign funding should be dependent on charity donations linked to a brewer's 'edgy' marketing campaign.


So do you think the organisation behind this were pressured into the beer name, against their will, by Brewdog? Do you not give the charity enough credit to make some decisions about what is or isn't appropriate for the people they are trying to reach? And refuse to be associated with something they aren't comfortable with? Here's their email if you want to tell them off: 

info@whole.org.uk


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 20, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Some folk here are interpreting it as such but I don’t see it myself.


To be honest with you MM, without even thinking about it, the words 'sad as fuck' entered my head as soon as a saw it. I didn't even clock it was Alcohol Free. The black writing over metallic gold doesn't register clearly with me so if I was appraising it as a product I'd say that bit isn't visually clear. I think anyone doing a product evaluation, which there must of been a team including management, would have questioned the interpretation I made and they've still gone with it. 

This makes me think that it is a poor taste gimmick aimed at grabbing some albeit, negative, but free press. It's as old as the hills with product promoting. Couldn't give a XXXX myself really but I think the doubters are correct here.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 20, 2022)

teuchter said:


> So do you think the organisation behind this were pressured into the beer name, against their will, by Brewdog? Do you not give the charity enough credit to make some decisions about what is or isn't appropriate for the people they are trying to reach? And refuse to be associated with something they aren't comfortable with? Here's their email if you want to tell them off:
> 
> info@whole.org.uk



Do you think SAD AF is out of character for Brewdog?


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 20, 2022)

They could have gone with 'SAD lite'.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 20, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> They could have gone with 'SAD lite'.


Or "Light Ale"


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Or "Light Ale"


I was thinking of something related to S.A.D. but not insulting, and a S.A.D. Light is a method to try and reduce the symptoms of S.A.D.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 20, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Why call it SAD AF? They could use any name under the sun.
> 
> How many people with genuine mental health issues are told "Oh stop being sad, cheer up, what's the matter with you?"


I've never known 'sad as fuck' to be in any way connected with mental health. Literally never.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 20, 2022)

SAD Light or Lite would have been way better than SAD AF.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 20, 2022)

teuchter said:


> So do you think the organisation behind this were pressured into the beer name, against their will, by Brewdog? Do you not give the charity enough credit to make some decisions about what is or isn't appropriate for the people they are trying to reach? And refuse to be associated with something they aren't comfortable with? Here's their email if you want to tell them off:
> 
> info@whole.org.uk


Thanks for the link, but I don't feel the need to say anything to the charity. I don't know enough of their work to even dream of criticising what they're up to, but I feel that I do understand Brewdog's motivation.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 20, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> To be honest with you MM, without even thinking about it, the words 'sad as fuck' entered my head as soon as a saw it. I didn't even clock it was Alcohol Free. The black writing over metallic gold doesn't register clearly with me so if I was appraising it as a product I'd say that bit isn't visually clear. I think anyone doing a product evaluation, which there must of been a team including management, would have questioned the interpretation I made and they've still gone with it.
> 
> This makes me think that it is a poor taste gimmick aimed at grabbing some albeit, negative, but free press. It's as old as the hills with product promoting. Couldn't give a XXXX myself really but I think the doubters are correct here.


Yeah but how does it connect with mental health? In northern vernacular it means something is crap or pathetic. Or someone is doing something considered such. I've never known it to be about mental health and I think there's some acrobatics going on connecting it to seasonal depression.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 20, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yeah but how does it connect with mental health? In northern vernacular it means something is crap or pathetic.


Which has the potential to undermine the whole precept of the campaign, that people/men(?) should feel able to openly talk about such matters.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 20, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yeah but how does it connect with mental health? In northern vernacular it means something is crap or pathetic. Or someone is doing something considered such. I've never known it to be about mental health and I think there's some acrobatics going on connecting it to seasonal depression.




from www.whole.org.uk thanks teuchter


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 20, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> There only little cans, 6 or 8 on a hot day, easy peasy.


You've clearly not noticed their emetic quality


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 20, 2022)

OK, sorry, I missed that there is a stated connection.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Which has the potential to undermine the whole precept of the campaign, that people/men(?) should feel able to openly talk about such matters.


Yeah sorry, I was taking it at face value. I hadn't seen the other bit.


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 20, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yeah but how does it connect with mental health? In northern vernacular it means something is crap or pathetic. Or someone is doing something considered such. I've never known it to be about mental health and I think there's some acrobatics going on connecting it to seasonal depression.


Was just typing this when you posted...

Yeah I agree, sad as fuck means something is shit round our way too. If you say something's sad as fuck it's generally in a state of disrepair.

That type of acrobatics you mention is generally what a company is looking for in a product naming exercise.  That's the point.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 20, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yeah but how does it connect with mental health? In northern vernacular it means something is crap or pathetic. Or someone is doing something considered such. I've never known it to be about mental health and I think there's some acrobatics going on connecting it to seasonal depression.


They’re not a Northern English company, they’re based in the North East of Scotland.


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 20, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> They’re not a Northern English company, they’re based in the North East of Scotland.


Where it would be Sad te fack yes?


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 20, 2022)

I've always taken sad as fuck to mean pathetic.


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 20, 2022)

Perhaps they'll do an extra strong lager, sling a few grand to a women's crisis center and call it wife beater or, better still... rapist. Well punk


----------



## teuchter (Jan 20, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Thanks for the link, but I don't feel the need to say anything to the charity. I don't know enough of their work to even dream of criticising what they're up to, but I feel that I do understand Brewdog's motivation.



You and others have spent the last several couple of pages criticising what they are up to.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 20, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Do you think SAD AF is out of character for Brewdog?


No, it fits in with the tone of their marketing in general.


----------



## TopCat (Jan 20, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> They called me a ladyboy
> But come on, you fossils have been here for a long time and have learnt nothing, so perhaps it’s time to move on. There’s probably a Top Gear forum somewhere that you’ll feel more at home in. This shit is getting tired. I want to hang out here without the likes of you. This is supposed to be a sanctuary for many of us and has been feeling less so recently.


This is like telling people to go drink elsewhere when in the pub. It only works (a bit) with the threat of violence. You are just coming across like a twat, like you represent some orthodoxy which is right and just.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 20, 2022)

Sad as fuck is not a compliment no matter what part of the UK one is from.


----------



## TopCat (Jan 20, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Why call it SAD AF? They could use any name under the sun.
> 
> How many people with genuine mental health issues are told "Oh stop being sad, cheer up, what's the matter with you?"


No one has ever said that to me.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 20, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Nonsense. They've built a billion pound business from scratch by selling crap beer. That alone is commendable. Then you could look at their genius marketing programs which appeal to many but irritate many others into talking about them!


Think what they could have done with better beer and without their misogyny etc


----------



## TopCat (Jan 20, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Think what they could have done with better beer and without their misogyny etc


To be fair there are loads of struggling brewery's who do fantastic beer with no bigotry but never market their beer effectively. 

I have never liked a BrewDog beer. I brew better beer myself in a big bucket.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 20, 2022)

TopCat said:


> To be fair there are loads of struggling brewery's who do fantastic beer with no bigotry but never market their beer effectively.
> 
> I have never liked a BrewDog beer. I brew better beer myself in a big bucket.


Your beer is lush


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 20, 2022)

TopCat said:


> To be fair there are loads of struggling brewery's who do fantastic beer with no bigotry but never market their beer effectively.
> 
> I have never liked a BrewDog beer. I brew better beer myself in a big bucket.


And a ton (pun) of local breweries in every town who brew great beer for pubs and the public, brewing aint rocket science. Marketing though, that's what they have excelled at, crap beer though

I'd try a pint of yours rather than theirs anytime


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 20, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> They’re not a Northern English company, they’re based in the North East of Scotland.


I wasn't aware it meant anything anywhere else or, if it did, that it carried a different meaning. In fact until today I assumed sad as fuck was purely a Teesside thing. Because I have never heard the term repeated elsewhere.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 20, 2022)




----------



## editor (Jan 20, 2022)

More on their dodgy US exports (you may have to log in to Instagram)





__





						Instagram
					






					www.instagram.com


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 21, 2022)

editor said:


> More on their dodgy US exports (you may have to log in to Instagram)
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think instagram is far more evil the Brewdog to be honest









						Leaks just exposed how toxic Facebook and Instagram are to teen girls and, well, everyone
					

The company’s own research reveals that, in short, the problem with Facebook is Facebook




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## weepiper (Jan 21, 2022)

Sad AF has to be seen in the context that they already do a beer called Punk AF. Punk Alcohol Free: Punk As Fuck. They _want_ you to read it as Sad As Fuck. Saying things are "....as fuck" is a Scotticism generally and usually means something positive. This is 100% another Brewdog double meaning _nudge nudge wink wink_ name though.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 21, 2022)

Be great if the workers took matters into their own hands and, _nudge nudge wink wink_, served up a revolution.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 21, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Sad AF has to be seen in the context that they already do a beer called Punk AF. Punk Alcohol Free: Punk As Fuck. They _want_ you to read it as Sad As Fuck. Saying things are "....as fuck" is a Scotticism generally and usually means something positive. This is 100% another Brewdog double meaning _nudge nudge wink wink_ name though.


I just trying to clarify here, and is a genuine question: isn't the 'as fuck' enhancing the meaning of the previous word i.e. a synonym for very? So could be a positive or negative* , or is it not used like that in Scotland and only used for positive things? 

*Fast as fuck or slow as fuck


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I think instagram is far more evil the Brewdog to be honest
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you'll just completely ignore what's in that post and indulge in yet more irrelevant whataboutery like the tedious troller you are?


----------



## andysays (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I've never known 'sad as fuck' to be in any way connected with mental health. Literally never.


You may have literally never experienced it yourself, but hopefully you can accept it's something that many other people have experienced, including those of us with mental health issues, and it's not just something people are making up.

On the wider point, if this was a one off, it might be possible to argue it was just an unfortunate bit of insensitivity on the part of Brewdog, but given how much of their marketing seems to involve this sort of 'edgy' shit, it's pretty obvious that it's deliberate.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

The backlash continues 











						Activists criticise Brewdog mental health campaign
					

BrewDog has teamed up with the online movement #IAmWhole to raise awareness around mental health ahead of a BBC documentary claiming the brewery has a ‘toxic’ workplace environment. Celebrities including Mo Farah, Danny Dyer, Jason Fox and Seann Walsh share their experiences of anxiety a...




					www.able2uk.com


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 21, 2022)

editor said:


> So you'll just completely ignore what's in that post and indulge in yet more irrelevant whataboutery like the tedious troller you are?


i don't use facebook/instagram so i cant see it it.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i don't use facebook/instagram so i cant see it it.


Seeing as you feel compelled to comment on posts you can't even read, how about  you comment on the one I just posted. From the union.


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 21, 2022)

editor said:


> Seeing as you feel compelled to comment on posts you can't even read, how about  you comment on the one I just posted. From the union.


I have no particular comment on what they say, its interesting to note the union itself gets really poor reviews on trust pilot









						Unite the Union is rated "Poor" with 2.1 / 5 on Trustpilot
					

Do you agree with Unite the Union's TrustScore? Voice your opinion today and hear what 589 customers have already said.




					uk.trustpilot.com


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I have no particular comment on what they say, its interesting to note the union itself gets really poor reviews on trust pilot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So you've got nothing to say about the actual topic of this thread but now you're  going on about Trustpilot to try and slag off a union? Oh just fuck off with your idiotic trolling.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 21, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I have no particular comment on what they say, its interesting to note the union itself gets really poor reviews on trust pilot
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Damn, you must really love Brewdog.


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 21, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Damn, you must really love Brewdog.


I'm not really bothered by it tbh. I do like the Hazy Jane but in general I'm not a massive fan of its marketing, I think the branding is strong.

This thread is like an Orwellian 2 minute hate though.


----------



## andysays (Jan 21, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I have no particular comment on what they say, its interesting to note the union itself gets really poor reviews on trust pilot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I don't know if there's a page on that site somewhere for reviews of trolls, but you're not even worth 0.5 out of 5


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I'm not really bothered by it tbh. I do like the Hazy Jane but in general I'm not a massive fan of its marketing, I think the branding is strong.
> 
> This thread is like an Orwellian 2 minute hate though.


What the fuck are you on about now? Please explain how raising concerns about workers being abused and exploited by ruthless capitalistic bosses is  'Orwellian' and 'hateful.'

Thanks.

PS If you answer with yet more whataboutery/shit trolling you'll be warned and banned of this thread.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 21, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> This thread is like an Orwellian 2 minute hate though.



🤣 Oceania75


----------



## Edie (Jan 21, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I have no particular comment on what they say, its interesting to note the union itself gets really poor reviews on trust pilot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Wow that’s some pretty bad feedback.


----------



## NoXion (Jan 21, 2022)

I've always understood the term "as fuck" to be an intensifier. e.g. "spicy as fuck" = really spicy. On the internet it's commonly abbreviated to simply "af".

So in that sense, I think calling a product "Sad AF" while making a song and dance about being involved with a mental health charity is a tasteless move _at best_.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

NoXion said:


> I've always understood the term "as fuck" to be an intensifier. e.g. "spicy as fuck" = really spicy. On the internet it's commonly abbreviated to simply "af".
> 
> So in that sense, I think calling a product "Sad AF" while making a song and dance about being involved with a mental health charity is a tasteless move _at best_.


It's a northern colloquialism for crap/pathetic. Which to me seems a strange thing to call your product, almost a Ratner moment. Others have said there's other meanings so I can't ignore what andysays has to say about it. I've just never encountered that myself.
Although in my 25 years in London i've literally heard nobody say it but it was common currency in Teesside in the 80s.


----------



## NoXion (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It's a northern colloquialism for crap/pathetic. Which to me seems a strange thing to call your product, almost a Ratner moment. Others have said there's other meanings so I can't ignore what andysays has to say about it. I've just never encountered that myself.



I think there's enough circumstantial evidence of the marketing team behind the naming of BD's product line being a bunch of sniggering edgy types, that gleaning multiple meanings isn't totally unreasonable. They can hide their edgy crap behind plausible deniability and all that.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

eg - what you up to tonight?

watching Superman on the telly
you're sad as fuck man, you not coming out?


----------



## NoXion (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> eg - what you up to tonight?
> 
> watching Superman on the telly
> you're sad as fuck man, you not coming out?



They sell their products in plenty of places outside of the north of England, and I'm pretty sure that their marketing team is plenty aware of that.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

NoXion said:


> I think there's enough circumstantial evidence of the marketing team behind the naming of BD's product line being a bunch of sniggering edgy types, that gleaning multiple meanings isn't totally unreasonable. They can hide their edgy crap behind plausible deniability and all that.


Well for sure. It's just _that specific term _means something to me which isn't at all connected to mental health. And those claiming it is I'm dubious about if it's part of their vocabulary.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I have no particular comment on what they say, its interesting to note the union itself gets really poor reviews on trust pilot
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I suspect that's to do with the spamming unite members get from people claiming to get them better insurance deals.

As a unite member and former unite rep, the union in my experience does it's best to help people with their employment problems. They helped me.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 21, 2022)

Took a quick look at the replies and they either seem to be very happy or very unhappy with little in between.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well for sure. It's just _that specific term _means something to me which isn't at all connected to mental health. And those claiming it is I'm dubious about if it's part of their vocabulary.


So you're denying people's lived experience when they're literally telling you what it means to them, because it doesn't mean the same thing to you?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 21, 2022)

Reviewing a union on Trustpilot is a bit of a weird thing to do isn't it. I mean there's plenty of faults in my union (not Unite) but what would be the point of writing a negative review on a consumer site?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> _Well for sure. It's just that specific term means something to me which isn't at all connected to mental health. And those claiming it is I'm dubious about if it's part of their vocabulary._


_They_ connected it with mental health.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Reviewing a union on Trustpilot is a bit of a weird thing to do isn't it. I mean there's plenty of faults in my union (not Unite) but what would be the point of writing a negative review on a consumer site?


It's just more dull and pointless anti-union whataboutery/trolling.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Took a quick look at the replies and they either seem to be very happy or very unhappy with little in between.


Much like Brewdog's 'poor' 2.7 rating on that site, with that the biggest chunk of the vote declaring them to be 'bad.'

Can we move on from Trustpilot now please and talk about the issues surrounding Brewdog's treatment of their staff, their pathetic Sad As Fuck campaign and all the other dubious things the company gets up to?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> _They_ connected it with mental health.



If they called it Donkey would that be them connecting Donkey to mental health?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

DaphneM No-one is forcing you to post on it - or you Spymaster - so if you don't like it, go somewhere else.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Took a quick look at the replies and they either seem to be very happy or very unhappy with little in between.



This tends to be the way with self-generated reviews.  People don't get fired up to say something is kind of ok.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> DaphneM No-one is forcing you to post on it - or you Spymaster - so if you don't like it, go somewhere else.



I do like it though. Daphne was spot-on with the 2 minutes hate thing.

If BD spent all of their profits curing cancer and rehoming orphans, you lot would still want them crucified!


----------



## not-bono-ever (Jan 21, 2022)

The least they could do is produce a beer that reduces the urge to razz in the shower the next morning. Pint for pint, it has the worst hangover collateral I have come across


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> If they called it Donkey would that be them connecting Donkey to mental health?


You read the bit about Sad AF being released _as part of a campaign on mental health_, right?









						BrewDog partners on mental health campaign 7 months after ‘toxic’ workplace claims
					

Seven months after claims of fostering a ‘toxic’ workplace culture, and a week before BBC One airs a one-hour special into the scandal, BrewDog has partnered with the online movement #IAmWhole in a bid to spark conversations around mental health issues.




					www.thedrum.com


----------



## dessiato (Jan 21, 2022)

DaphneM don't waste your time posting on this thread unless you hate BrewDog. No one on here will accept other than hate for them. There is no other possible option. Do the same as I do, read it, shake your head, sigh, and move on.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I suspect that's to do with the spamming unite members get from people claiming to get them better insurance deals.
> 
> As a unite member and former unite rep, the union in my experience does it's best to help people with their employment problems. They helped me.


Yeah, god knows there are plenty of criticisms to be made of both unions in general and Unite in particular, but ultimately a) the experience of being in a union will differ massively from branch to branch, so there's no guarantee the things leading to your good or bad experience will be mirrored elsewhere, and b) if aren't satisfied with how your local branch is doing, you can get involved in the branch committee and try to push it in a different direction. Or you could leave a bad review on trustpilot, I suppose? 🤷‍♂️


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

dessiato said:


> DaphneM don't waste your time posting on this thread unless you hate BrewDog. No one on here will accept other than hate for them. There is no other possible option. Do the same as I do, read it, shake your head, sigh, and move on.


Ah, here's the company shareholder, keen to close down all discussion.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> You read the bit about Sad AF being released _as part of a campaign on mental health_, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I just asked 4 people what they thought SAD AF meant. Every one said 'Sad as fuck.'


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 21, 2022)

not-bono-ever said:


> The least they could do is produce a beer that reduces the urge to razz in the shower the next morning. Pint for pint, it has the worst hangover collateral I have come across



They do a stout, Dog J, with an alcohol content of over 14%, which I'm reliably informed gives you a hangover for about 3 days.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> You read the bit about Sad AF being released _as part of a campaign on mental health_, right?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yes.


Notwithstanding their own appalling record of the mental health problems they caused their own staff - and the current gaslighting of staff who complained - you don't see a problem with them launching a beer to to support a mental health charity that most/many people will think is called Sad As Fuck?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yes.


So it’s not just completely random that it’s called Sad AF.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I do like it though. Daphne was spot-on with the 2 minutes hate thing.
> 
> If BD spent all of their profits curing cancer and rehoming orphans, you lot would still want them crucified!


In the real world, a fair chunk of their profit ends up in the Cayman islands.

**


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

dessiato said:


> DaphneM don't waste your time posting on this thread unless you hate BrewDog. No one on here will accept other than hate for them. There is no other possible option. Do the same as I do, read it, shake your head, sigh, and move on.


That's ok, dess, you love them enough for all of us.

Even though it's not at all clear why you do love such a company quite so much


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> In the real world, a fair chuck of their profit ends up in the Cayman islands.
> 
> *View attachment 306903*


Shocked, I tell you, shocked.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> So it’s not just completely random that it’s called Sad AF.



Are you reading my posts?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I do like it though. Daphne was spot-on with the 2 minutes hate thing.
> 
> If BD spent all of their profits curing cancer and rehoming orphans, you lot would still want them crucified!


If they were curing cancer and rehoming orphans using misogynistic marketing, yes I would.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Are you reading my posts?


Are you reading anyone else's?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Are you reading anyone else's?



The SAD AF is poking fun at it being alcohol free. That it’s somehow slagging mentally Ill people is something being made up on this thread by posters here.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> If they were curing cancer and rehoming orphans using misogynistic marketing, yes I would.


Exactly; but when the reality of their 'wealth creation' becomes apparent...


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The SAD AF is poking fun at it being alcohol free. That it’s somehow slagging mentally Ill people is something being made up on this thread by posters here.


Thank you for mansplaining what I pointed out two days ago.

But Brewdog have a long history of using  things with double meaning precisely to poke fun at people and Sad AF is no different, and they know it.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Thank you for mansplaining what I pointed out two days ago.
> 
> But Brewdog have a long history of using  things with double meaning precisely to poke fun at people and Sad AF is no different, and they know it.



There isn’t a double meaning which includes it being a pejorative to the mentally ill. Could you point to sources that dispute this?
And can you stop with this ‘mansplaining’ bollocks? I have to explain my self to make my posts make sense there’s nothing sexist about me trying to make myself clearer.


----------



## belboid (Jan 21, 2022)

Brew Dog have been calling their alcohol free versions _AF _ for years, I think it's only Nanny State that goes without it. And of course it's an edgelord thing. Whether the charity they are working with approached them or vice versa (and there are certainly charities that would be only to happy to do so, cos some of them are crap too) is pretty irrelevant, imo.

It's all just more (whatever the appropriate colour for charities is)washing, trying to move the conversation on and still being edgelords. You might think that after being repeatedly hauled over the coals for misogyny they might think about not just targeting a campaign at their male clientele.  But I guess they're misogynists, so that thought doesn't even occur to them.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The SAD AF is poking fun at it being alcohol free. That it’s somehow slagging mentally Ill people is something being made up on this thread by posters here.



Of course it isn't poking fun at mentally ill people. The suggestion is ridiculous.


----------



## belboid (Jan 21, 2022)

editor said:


> Ah, here's the company shareholder, keen to close down all discussion.


He's not really a shareholder.  He just has a piece of paper that pretends it's a Share, but doesn't give any of the rights inherent with the normal meaning of that word, no voting right and it's price isn't related in any way to the value of the company.  It's a Fan Club membership and nowt else.


----------



## steeplejack (Jan 21, 2022)

dessiato said:


> DaphneM don't waste your time posting on this thread unless you hate BrewDog. No one on here will accept other than hate for them. There is no other possible option. Do the same as I do, read it, shake your head, sigh, and move on.



This is all Brewdog fanboyz have left- tone-trolling. Pathetic, frankly.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 21, 2022)

editor said:


> Ah, here's the company shareholder, keen to close down all discussion.



_Equity punk_, if you don't mind.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 21, 2022)

dessiato said:


> DaphneM don't waste your time posting on this thread unless you hate BrewDog. No one on here will accept other than hate for them. There is no other possible option. Do the same as I do, read it, shake your head, sigh, and move on.


This is really weak cobblers. There may be some posters that _hate_ BrewDog but for most it is about the horrible work/advertising practices of the company. Practices that you seen to want to ignore - hence the pretence about "haters" rather addressing the substantive matters like the sexism pointed out by EG and others.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 21, 2022)

It is very clever marketing, but also insidious and hateful.
AFAICT they are using sad in three ways

Sad as in unhappy
SAD as in Seasonal Affective Disorder
and sad as in pathetic  

Saying 'I'm feeling sad as fuck ' is totally different from being called 'sad as fuck' and the standalone statement normally would imply the pathetic interpretation. Added to that, alcohol-free beer has, or at least had a connotation of being rather pathetic, although that seems to be diminishing, but this isn't going to help that view.
Then there is their get out of we are talking about S.A.D. with this charity and not being edgy at all. 

Also going up to the bar and ordering SAD AF isn't exactly going to sell it, so the charity's donation from BD is going to be less, and who wants to come back from the bar and have their pissed up mates giving them top bantz about buying or being SAD AF.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> Brew Dog have been calling their alcohol free versions _AF _ for years, I think it's only Nanny State that goes without it. And of course it's an edgelord thing. Whether the charity they are working with approached them or vice versa (and there are certainly charities that would be only to happy to do so, cos some of them are crap too) is pretty irrelevant, imo.
> 
> It's all just more (whatever the appropriate colour for charities is)washing, trying to move the conversation on and still being edgelords. You might think that after being repeatedly hauled over the coals for misogyny they might think about not just targeting a campaign at their male clientele.  But I guess they're misogynists, so that thought doesn't even occur to them.



Ah, so they decided to ridicule male sufferers of mental illness because they hate women.


----------



## belboid (Jan 21, 2022)

8ball said:


> Ah, so they decided to ridicule male sufferers of mental illness because they hate women.


No, like certain other people, they just don't even think about women at all. So only aim their crappy edgelord campaigns at blokes.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> No, like certain other people, they just don't even think about women at all. So only aim their crappy edgelord campaigns at blokes.



It's not a question of _thinking about women_, it's about what their market is. They've carved themselves a niche and that's what their marketing is designed to appeal to.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 21, 2022)

I think it's a clever marketing campaign.


----------



## belboid (Jan 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's not a question of _thinking about women_, it's about what their market is. They've carved themselves a niche and that's what their marketing is designed to appeal to.


Ohh please.  They haven't 'carved themselves' any such thing - unless you can point to any piece showing their market is even more male than other craft brewers. They might well get _slightly _more because their campaigns are off-putting to women. Are you trying to claim that as a deliberate strategy now? It would be at odds with what they claim about being female friendly. So which story do you want to go with?


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's not a question of _thinking about women_, it's about what their market is. They've carved themselves a niche and that's what their marketing is designed to appeal to.


Your friend at our house, you know the pretty one who puts up with me, is the only person who ever buys brewdog. She likes their Dead Pony Club Pale Ale which I've always found quite odd given she's a horse lover  Some weird marketing going on with that one.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Your friend at our house, you know the pretty one who puts up with me, is the only person who ever buys brewdog. She likes their Dead Pony Club Pale Ale which I've always found quite odd given she's a horse lover  Some weird marketing going on with that one.



Dead Pony Club on draft is quite nice.  Not full of pineapple.
Astonishing equinophobia in the name, though.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 21, 2022)

You wouldn't get 142 pages about Thwaites, I'll say that.


----------



## belboid (Jan 21, 2022)

Here's an interesting piece on their marketing from last year.  The author is a fan, but she easily notes how being seen as a blokey company is a bad move









						How to Brew a Strong Beer Brand
					

Craft beer BrewDog is now competing with players such as Budweiser, Heineken, and Carlsberg. What stands behind BrewDogs’ success? This article has the answers.




					latana.com


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> - unless you can point to any piece showing their market is even more male than other craft brewers.



Seriously? 

Their market isn't just males. It's much more specific than that. It's laddish blokes aged 18 to around 40.


----------



## belboid (Jan 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Seriously?
> 
> Their market isn't just males. It's much more specific than that. It's laddish blokes aged 18 to around 40.


Wrong. (see above post).  If you re going to make wild claims you need to provide some serious evidence for them.


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 21, 2022)

8ball said:


> Dead Pony Club on draft is quite nice.  Not full of pineapple.
> Astonishing equinophobia in the name, though.


Never had it on draft, our lass did though when we visited The Brizzol Brewdog place on a trip ages ago and since then every now and then she'll buy a box of them. I had two pints of some 9.8% imperial stout that made me talk shite which, coincidentally, she's never come home from shopping with. 

To be honest I prefer a pale ale with a bit more thump.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> There isn’t a double meaning which includes it being a pejorative to the mentally ill. Could you point to sources that dispute this?
> And can you stop with this ‘mansplaining’ bollocks? I have to explain my self to make my posts make sense there’s nothing sexist about me trying to make myself clearer.


Calling someone sad as fuck isn't a compliment.

Do you know what mainsplaining is? It's explaining something that to a women that she has already pointed out. Friedaweed previously asked what AF meant in the context of Brewdog. I said they use the letters to denote Alcohol Free, but how I absolutely believed that Brewdog were taking advantage of the double meaning.

And then you explained that back to me, by saying it meant Alcohol Free.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> Wrong. (see above post).



She doesn't disagree with me. What she's saying is basically that they've missed a trick by not attempting to also appeal to women.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jan 21, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I think it's a clever marketing campaign.



Yeah maybe but it's a question of succeeding at one thing by failing at something much more important, namely Not Being a Cunt.


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 21, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I think it's a clever marketing campaign.


Clearly it is because people are talking about their new beer. Look at how this thread's got legs...

This sort of thing always reminds me of the late great Bill Hicks in his prime


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Calling someone sad as fuck isn't a compliment.
> 
> Do you know what mainsplaining is? It's explaining something that to a women that she has already pointed out. Friedaweed previously asked what AF meant in the context of Brewdog. I said they use the letters to denote Alcohol Free, but how I absolutely believed that Brewdog were taking advantage of the double meaning.
> 
> And then you explained that back to me, by saying it meant Alcohol Free.



No I didn’t, I said what I thought it was poking fun at not ‘mansplaning’ what it meant so stop using your daft feminist playbook against my reasonable points.


----------



## belboid (Jan 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> She doesn't disagree with me. What she's saying is basically that they've missed a trick by not attempting to also appeal to women.


She explicitly notes who is actually aware of the brand and who drinks it.  Mostly men over 55.  And women aren’t that far behind, either - roughly in line with other brewers.  So your claims in 4234 and 4241 are explicitly refuted.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> No I didn’t, I said what I thought it was poking fun at not ‘mansplaning’ what it meant so stop using your daft feminist playbook against my reasonable points.


Stop using feminist as a pejorative.

You claim to have changed. So far I am seeing no evidence of that.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Stop using feminist as a pejorative.
> 
> You claim to have changed. So far I am seeing no evidence of that.



Changed from what? I don’t agree that ‘SAD AF’ is a pejorative aimed at the mentally unwell, that I state this isn’t reduced to me ‘mansplaining’ and that you say it is is because of an agenda you have rather than taking my point at face value.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Changed from what? I don’t agree that ‘SAD AF’ is a pejorative aimed at the mentally unwell, that I state this isn’t reduced to me ‘mansplaining’ and that you say it is is because of an agenda you have rather than taking my point at face value.


Changed from attacking feminism and being on the wind up the whole time, nothing to do with sad AF.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Changed from attacking feminism and being on the wind up the whole time, nothing to do with sad AF.



I’m not attacking feminism. I made a point and you saying that was me ‘mansplaining’ strikes me as odd given you then state it’s on the basis of me agreeing with your earlier point.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well for sure. It's just _that specific term _means something to me which isn't at all connected to mental health. And those claiming it is I'm dubious about if it's part of their vocabulary.


That's cos you're a contrary keyboard warrior cunt.

I hope when the time comes that you might need some help from someone, I hope that they decide to help you as opposed to walk away because of the utter shit you spout.

If you haven't heard the phrase "shit" before, then it can mean a lot of things. "That's the real shit" = good.

"Magnus McGinty is a fucking contrary shit" = bad.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> That's cos you're a contrary keyboard warrior cunt.
> 
> I hope when the time comes that you might need some help from someone, that they decide to help you as opposed to walk away because of the utter shit you spout.
> 
> ...



Thanks for not attempting to understand anything in favour of making it fit to suit.
If that was a threat I can take It because you’re simply inventing stuff.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not attacking feminism.


errm


> your daft feminist playbook


----------



## JimW (Jan 21, 2022)

Reviewing your union on trustpilot because you relate to them as a consumer seems like something you could spin a long handwringing piece out of. Depressing.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2022)

two sheds said:


> errm



That would depend on whether the pejorative is "daft", "feminist", or possibly "daft feminist".


----------



## eatmorecheese (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> daft feminist playbook


_sigh_


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 21, 2022)

8ball said:


> Ah, so they decided to ridicule male sufferers of mental illness because they hate women.


Tbf, whatever you think of the beer label in question, surely this is not the first time you've encountered the idea that men can be sexist/misogynist, and channel some of that into ridiculing men who they perceive as not living up to proper standards of masculinity?
As someone once said:


> Sexism, and more specifically this form of sexism which is a reaction to  people’s gender deviance- not being a Proper Man, or a Proper Woman, is  something that seems to be ignored. It plays a huge part in homophobia- A gay boy, who is very masculine and handy with his fists is  not likely to be bullied at school.  School kids don’t usually see what  their school mates find sexually attractive, they see how they behave. Effeminate boys are bullied for being effeminate- and the words the kids use are gay, and batty boy, but they’re being bullied because  they’re not acting like Real Men, this is sexism, but we call it  homophobia. And when you call it homophobia, what organisations are  there helping the effeminate straight boy? He’s being told that it’s okay to be gay, but no one’s saying that it’s okay to be a bit girly.





PR1Berske said:


> You wouldn't get 142 pages about Thwaites, I'll say that.


I might drop them an email suggesting that they adopt a brilliantly edgy new marketing style where they write the first, third, fourth and sixth letters of their name really big and all the others really small, I'll let you all know how it turns out.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Thanks for not attempting to understand anything in favour of making it fit to suit.
> If that was a threat I can take It because you’re simply inventing stuff.


You're a joke.

I've seen many a thread where you've been ground down and then you whimper "yeah, I can be a wind up merchant, but it's just a bit of fun".

Except it isn't to most of us.

You joke about this thread, the Sarah Everard thread, and probably are contrary about everything else because...

You can't do it in real life because you don't have the testes. You're the sad old opinionated man in the pub who still talks about screwing women or  making sarky comments about niggers or Jews. You know you can't do it there any more, so you do it here and when people object you actually get a fucking boner about it and go in for the kill.

Fuck me, my life ain't great but at least I'm not you, you absolutely horrible, despicable piece of shit. And that's not referring to this thread. That's referring to everything that you post.

Imagine being you. Sad AF.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Tbf, whatever you think of the beer label in question, surely this is not the first time you've encountered the idea that men can be sexist/misogynist, and channel some of that into ridiculing men who they perceive as not living up to proper standards of masculinity?



Ooh, that's quite a neat twist - proper Gender Studies thesis stuff.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

Here's the Brewdog bosses.



PHWOOAAAR, not 'alf, eh lads? 💪


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> You're a joke.
> 
> I've seen many a thread where you've been ground down and then you whimper "yeah, I can be a wind up merchant, but it's just a bit of fun".
> 
> ...



Joking on the Sarah Everard thread.
What upset folk was that I said Incels should be organised against like we do fascists.
Probably the wrong thread for that conversation.
But ‘joking’? 
Fuck off.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2022)

editor said:


> Here's the Brewdog bosses.
> 
> View attachment 306924
> 
> PHWOOAAAR, not 'alf, eh lads? 💪



Men in suits aren't really my thing, but feel free to fap away.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

8ball said:


> Men in suits aren't really my thing, but feel free to fap away.


So you can't see vile, unacceptable sexism when it's right in front of your stupid face? No wonder I've kept  you on ignore for months.


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2022)

editor said:


> So you can't see vile, unacceptable sexism when it's right in front of your stupid face? No wonder I've kept  you on ignore for months.



Well they are pawing at those poor lads a bit.  No wonder they look uncomfortable.


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Joking on the Sarah Everard thread.
> What upset folk was that I said Incels should be organised against like we do fascists.
> Probably the wrong thread for that conversation.
> But ‘joking’?
> Fuck off.


Oh. 

You weren't joking. 

That's even worse. You were being serious.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> Oh.
> 
> You weren't joking.
> 
> That's even worse. You were being serious.



Oh hi liberal. Organising against things that threaten us is bad. Best leave that to the authorities.
Except on this occasion the attacker was dressed up as the authorities.
Are you joking?


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 21, 2022)

Yawn. You're crossing threads now you're so confused.

You bore me. You are Sad AF


----------



## 8ball (Jan 21, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> You are Sad AF



Worms its way into your head, that marketing..


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> Yawn. You're crossing threads now you're so confused.
> 
> You bore me. You are Sad AF



Thanks for answering.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

8ball said:


> Well they are pawing at those poor lads a bit.  No wonder they look uncomfortable.


Fuck you and your comedy misogyny. You're banned off this thread.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 21, 2022)

The edgelord/contrarian/gaslighting content On the thread is a bit overwhelming, that's for sure.

The marketing is archaic and insensitive, at the very least. Feels like it belongs to the Loaded generation. But even if the edgelord contingent ignore that aspect, surely the plight of the workers must carry some weight?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

krtek a houby you would think so wouldn't you? And yet, the edgelord contingent seem intent on ignoring it.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

You can disagree with their workplace practices yet also find odd some of the manufactured outrage here at times.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You can disagree with their workplace practices yet also find odd some of the manufactured outrage here at times.


Ah, once again you're extrapolating your opinion as fact here. And it's fucking tiresome.

 I don't have to 'manufacture' outrage when I hear of workers being treated like shit by anti-union bosses, or companies using sexism, misogyny, shitty double entendres and edgelord branding  to further their profits.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 21, 2022)

editor said:


> Ah, once again you're extrapolating your opinion as fact here. And it's fucking tiresome.
> 
> I don't have to 'manufacture' outrage when I hear of workers being treated like shit by anti-union bosses, or companies using sexism, misogyny, shitty double entendres and edgelord branding  to further their profits.



I’m still not convinced that SAD AF is supposed to be a dig at the mentally unwell rather than a self referential joke about alcohol free beer so we’ll have to agree to disagree there.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 21, 2022)

at thread


----------



## brogdale (Jan 21, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m still not convinced that SAD AF is supposed to be a dig at the mentally unwell rather than a self referential joke about alcohol free beer so we’ll have to agree to disagree there.


It’s both.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 21, 2022)

Or neither.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 21, 2022)

Or more...it’s all so edgy.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 21, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> The marketing is archaic and insensitive, at the very least. Feels like it belongs to the Loaded generation. But even if the edgelord contingent ignore that aspect, surely the plight of the workers must carry some weight?



Because the thread's not really about Brewdog, it's about poster's personalities. It's just one side against the other and has been for ages.


----------



## Raheem (Jan 21, 2022)

It's obviously not "supposed to be a dig at the mentally unwell". That would make no sense in the context of a "we do a lot of good work for charity" PR campaign. It's a poorly-chosen name, that's all. Mental health is probably a poorly-chosen area of do-gooding for a brewery, in the first place.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Because the thread's not really about Brewdog, it's about poster's personalities. It's just one side against the other and has been for ages.


Posters'. Unless you think it's about one poster's personalities. in which case you should name name


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

And Spymaster do you mean your personality?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> And Spymaster do you mean your personality?



And yours, and pretty much everyone else who's posting here.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 21, 2022)

Deep.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Deep.



Probably for you.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 21, 2022)

Come for the sexist banter, stay for the psychoanalysis, this thread has it all.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> And yours, and pretty much everyone else who's posting here.


Epic.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Probably for you.


Hmmm...a bit tetchy; you weren’t  being serious were you?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Epic.



Well that was worth the keystrokes.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Well that was worth the keystrokes.


Because your posts are always akin to Nobel Prize-winning literature, of course.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 22, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Because your posts are always akin to Nobel Prize-winning literature, of course.



You're learning. This is your best post on this thread.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 22, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You can disagree with their workplace practices yet also find odd some of the manufactured outrage here at times.



What is manufactured and who is behind it?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 22, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> What is manufactured and who is behind it?



Why not read the thread instead of relishing the opportunity to shit stir?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 22, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You can disagree with their workplace practices yet also find odd some of the manufactured outrage here at times.


Our outrage is the finest artisanal outrage produced in Europe I'll have you know and to describe it in disparaging terms as manufactured shows a certain contempt for our hard work


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 22, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Our outrage is the finest artisanal outrage produced in Europe I'll have you know and to describe it in disparaging terms as manufactured shows a certain contempt for our hard work



Tagline updated.


----------



## Serge Forward (Jan 22, 2022)

Outraged AF?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 22, 2022)

This thread is littered with people who are eager to defend Brewdog without really explaining why. I'm a veteran of messageboards, I know an avoided direct question when I see one. 

Not sure what people think they'll lose if they just accept Brewdog's failings.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 22, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> I'm a veteran of messageboards, I know an avoided direct question when I see one.



That made me laugh. I read it in a Roy Cropper voice.


----------



## NoXion (Jan 22, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Not sure what people think they'll lose if they just accept Brewdog's failings.



Would make it harder to act like chortling blokeish twats if they do. By not admitting BD's faults they think it doesn't give the game away.

Too late.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 22, 2022)

My Swedish mate had a theory that because the vikings stole all the Scottish women Scotsmen took to wearing kilts to cover the shortfall. 
Which is a bit like occasionally taking a contrarian position on Urban75.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 22, 2022)

more like talking absolute bollocks on Urban75


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 22, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Why not read the thread instead of relishing the opportunity to shit stir?



Can't answer or won't?


----------



## Serge Forward (Jan 22, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> This thread is littered with people who are eager to defend Brewdog without really explaining why.


Needs a poll maybe. I ❤ brewdog because:

I'm an edgy contrarian
Blah blah... something about free market... pioneering spirit... blah blah
I enjoy their product
It's punk AF
Fuck the unions
Etc


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 22, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Can't answer or won't?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 22, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> View attachment 306975



Projecting much?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 22, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Projecting much?



"Projecting"is a proper wrister term. Up there with "whataboutery" and "edgelord".


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> "Projecting"is a proper wrister term. Up there with "whataboutery" and "edgelord".



"Wrister"


----------



## xenon (Jan 22, 2022)

dessiato said:


> DaphneM don't waste your time posting on this thread unless you hate BrewDog. No one on here will accept other than hate for them. There is no other possible option. Do the same as I do, read it, shake your head, sigh, and move on.



...and buy shares in Brew Dog and commend their advertising.


----------



## xenon (Jan 22, 2022)

Anyway I don't think the label, Sad AF, of itself is all that to get worked up about. But adding to all their other stunts, general business practise, edgy marketting, they're not winning any friends here.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Why not read the thread instead of relishing the opportunity to shit stir?


You're the one accusing multiple posters of 'manufacturing outrage'. I'd call that shit stirring,


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 22, 2022)

editor said:


> You're the one accusing multiple posters of 'manufacturing outrage'. I'd call that shit stirring,



Someone rocking up demanding I “name names”  isn’t shit stirring?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 22, 2022)

xenon said:


> ... they're not winning any friends here.



I bet they're ravaged with grief about it too.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Someone rocking up demanding I “name names”  isn’t shit stirring?


You're the one accusing people of being dishonest, just because you're unable to comprehend why they might be annoyed at a company that treats their staff like shit and embarks on dubious mental health PR campaigns with edgelord branding. So why don't you start by telling me which 'outrage' I'm supposedly making up?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 22, 2022)

No idea why I’m being asked to repeat what I’ve already said (which you’ve read) other than for it to be a ban hammer dance.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> No idea why I’m being asked to repeat what I’ve already said (which you’ve read) other than for it to be a ban hammer dance.


I don't like people accusing me of  lying and then being unable to back up their bullshit, and I'm sure other posters don't like it either. If all you've got is ad hominems perhaps you should fuck off this thread because your empty insults are not adding anything.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 22, 2022)

editor said:


> I don't like people accusing me of  lying and then being unable to back up their bullshit, and I'm sure other posters don't like it either. If all you've got is ad hominems perhaps you should fuck off this thread because your empty insults are not adding anything.



Point to where I accused you of lying or I’ll accept an apology.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Point to where I accused you of lying or I’ll accept an apology.


You've accused me of posting up 'manufactured outrage' - which is lying - so don't play the smartarse.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 22, 2022)

editor said:


> You've accused me of posting up 'manufactured outrage' - which is lying - so don't play the smartarse.


In that case he's accusing me of posting up manufactured outrage too. It's strange how the multiple posters of the previous page have become only you now


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 22, 2022)

On the plus side, tis good to know the manufacturing industry is not completely dead.


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> In that case he's accusing me of posting up manufactured outrage too. It's strange how the multiple posters of the previous page have become only you now


*puts Pickmans on ignore for the day


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 22, 2022)

editor said:


> *puts Pickmans on ignore for the day


You should say sorry to Magnus for accusing him of saying something he hadn't. But we both know that won't happen.


----------



## xenon (Jan 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I bet they're ravaged with grief about it too.



Their social media marketing strategist is going spare I'll bet... Well probably not.

Still might as well slag them off here as anywhere...


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 22, 2022)

editor said:


> You've accused me of posting up 'manufactured outrage' - which is lying - so don't play the smartarse.



Where did I single you out?


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Where did I single you out?


Strange because here you are engaging with me on that very topic: 








						BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff
					

Thanks for not attempting to understand anything in favour of making it fit to suit. If that was a threat I can take It because you’re simply inventing stuff.  You're a joke.  I've seen many a thread where you've been ground down and then you whimper "yeah, I can be a wind up merchant, but it's...




					www.urban75.net
				




But are you now saying that you agree that my criticisms and comments about Brewdog are all valid and not 'manufactured', including the ones where I challenge your particular take on what people think Sad AF means?

OK, great. Thanks.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 22, 2022)

editor said:


> Strange because here you are engaging with me on that very topic:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Have you managed to find where I accused you of lying yet?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 22, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Have you managed to find where I accused you of lying yet?


🙄


----------



## editor (Jan 22, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Have you managed to find where I accused you of lying yet?


So you don't think I've posted anything that you would describe as 'manufactured outrage' and all the points I've raised are entirely valid? In which case apologies.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 23, 2022)

Back on brewdog. More intimidation that a government whip 









						BrewDog boss accused of trying to intimidate ex-staff over TV exposé
					

James Watt appears to warn sources who gave evidence to BBC that their identities could be revealed




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## editor (Jan 23, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Back on brewdog. More intimidation that a government whip
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just listen to the bullying cunt:


> Some of the allegations will be revisited in a BBC documentary, Disclosure: The Truth About BrewDog, due to air on Monday evening.
> 
> But in fresh posts on BrewDog’s “Equity for Punks” forum, the company’s chief executive, James Watt, appeared to attempt to warn sources who gave evidence to the BBC that their identities could be exposed.
> 
> ...


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 23, 2022)

Where's the other founder in all of this? It's only ever James Watt making comments and statements. Where's the oversight on James Watt and his intimidatory tactics?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 23, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Back on brewdog. More intimidation that a government whip
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a massive bullying cunt.

Or as the pro-business fanboys on here might say..._Perfectly logical step in corporate reputation management that protects the brand, the profitability and ultimate rewards to their "equity punks"._

There, that's saved them the bother of their dreary trolling.


----------



## belboid (Jan 24, 2022)

Well, this is news I am sure we will all find highly surprising - Brewdog chief James Watt accused of inappropriate behaviour


----------



## hash tag (Jan 24, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Back on brewdog. More intimidation that a government whip
> 
> 
> 
> ...





belboid said:


> Well, this is news I am sure we will all find highly surprising - Brewdog chief James Watt accused of inappropriate behaviour


Nothing new there then.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 24, 2022)

Shocked, I tell you shocked.

Who would have thought a company with a culture of bullying and intimidation had a CEO who likes to perpetuate intimidation.

Committed to changing his management style mon derriere.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 24, 2022)

_awaits defence of James Watt's alleged behaviour_


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 24, 2022)

Fozzie Bear said:


> Come for the sexist banter, stay for the psychoanalysis, this thread has it all.


It's gems like this that made me realise how much I'd missed this place


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 24, 2022)

brogdale said:


> What a massive bullying cunt.
> 
> Or as the pro-business fanboys on here might say..._Perfectly logical step in corporate reputation management that protects the brand, the profitability and ultimate rewards to their "equity punks"._
> 
> There, that's saved them the bother of their dreary trolling.


Well the cheerleaders do seem to have been quitened.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 24, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Well the cheerleaders do seem to have been quitened.


It's sadly often only temorarily


----------



## seeformiles (Jan 24, 2022)

More of the same









						Brewdog chief James Watt accused of inappropriate behaviour
					

Former US workers at the brewing giant say James Watt's behaviour made female bartenders feel "uncomfortable" and "powerless".



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## seeformiles (Jan 24, 2022)

BBC One - Disclosure, Series 4, The Truth about BrewDog
					

Reporter Mark Daly investigates the beer company’s marketing and financial hype.




					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## RainbowTown (Jan 24, 2022)

Mr Watt is not a happy man tonight.


----------



## belboid (Jan 24, 2022)

RainbowTown said:


> Mr Watt is not a happy man tonight.



Good!  I’m only half way through so far and they have shown evidence to back everything up (we’re not into the appalling treatment of staff yet).   They really have taken their ‘punk’ investors for a fucking ride.  They should be furious but I guess a lot of them will still convince themselves the boys are geniuses as they run off with the money.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 24, 2022)

RainbowTown said:


> Mr Watt is not a happy man tonight.



Oh dear, how sad, never mind.


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 24, 2022)

Gonna watch it after Waldemar has finished spunking over the impressionists. No spoilers hey


----------



## belboid (Jan 24, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Gonna watch it after Waldemar has finished spunking over the impressionists. No spoilers hey


Monet did it


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 24, 2022)

belboid said:


> Monet did it


I love this guy. He really does bring art to life.


----------



## friedaweed (Jan 24, 2022)

Bet they're gonna bring a beer out now called Crowd Fun DA to help pay their legal fees to sue the Beeb.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 24, 2022)

Not seen it yet but this is doing the rounds


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 24, 2022)




----------



## teuchter (Jan 24, 2022)

If this programme has serious allegations in it, I don't think you should all be making jokes and treating this like some sort of entertainment. Totally inappropriate and disrespectful.


----------



## belboid (Jan 24, 2022)

teuchter said:


> If this programme has serious allegations in it, I don't think you should all be making jokes and treating this like some sort of entertainment. Totally inappropriate and disrespectful.


Fuck off


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 24, 2022)

teuchter said:


> If this programme has serious allegations in it, I don't think you should all be making jokes and treating this like some sort of entertainment. Totally inappropriate and disrespectful.


Where were you when I was being bullied for the entertainment of certain posters on this thread? Didn't see you stepping up to the plate then.

No-one's making jokes about the intimidation or the inappropriate conduct. There's some play on words around the company itself, like the image of a beer called 'Damage Control'. If you can't see the difference then you really need to not post on Urban.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 24, 2022)

Also disgusting to see "ascension cider" using it as a free PR opportunity. There's not even a charity benefitting on the side.


----------



## belboid (Jan 24, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Also disgusting to see "ascension cider" using it as a free PR opportunity. There's not even a charity benefitting on the side.


Did you not hear?  Fuck.  Off.

You’ve been one of the biggest apologists for these fraudulent scumbags and there misogynist in chief, so don’t try it on with the moralistic bullshit, you are totally transparent.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 24, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Also disgusting to see "ascension cider" using it as a free PR opportunity. There's not even a charity benefitting on the side.


Maybe distancing themselves is good for their brand and will drive shareholder value or whatever the fuck people on here now spend their days caring about. Or they are sincere. Who knows.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 24, 2022)

teuchter said:


> No, it fits in with the tone of their marketing in general.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 24, 2022)




----------



## belboid (Jan 24, 2022)

“now on to the TSG stake, in which the PE giant took almost a quarter of the brewery and cofounders Watt and Dickie sold off almost 100M pounds of shares”

That was 100m EACH.  couple of months later they did another crowdfunder for 30m from fucking mugs.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 24, 2022)

James Watt declined to be interviewed by the BBC, I understand.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 24, 2022)




----------



## Humberto (Jan 25, 2022)

That's a win for editor equationgirl


----------



## Humberto (Jan 25, 2022)

Laughable effort to obey Clarkson and Eat red meat


----------



## Raheem (Jan 25, 2022)

Maybe it's just proof that if you try to fight the system with edgy marketing and hapless small investors the deep state will use the BBC to try to bring you down.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 25, 2022)

Raheem said:


> Maybe it's just proof that if you try to fight the system with edgy marketing and hapless small investors the deep state will use the BBC to try to bring you down.


🙄


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 25, 2022)

Humberto said:


> Laughable effort to obey Clarkson and Eat red meat


?


----------



## brogdale (Jan 25, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



The programme portrayed the founding owners as pretty standard capitalists, entitled, arrogant, greedy and with elements of personality disorders displaying symptoms of psychopathy and/or malevolent narcissism.

_"Punks"_


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 25, 2022)

brogdale said:


> The programme portrayed the founding owners as pretty standard capitalists, entitled, arrogant, greedy and with elements of personality disorders displaying symptoms of psychopathy and/or malevolent narcissism.
> 
> _"Punks"_


Are we really not going to have anyone giving it the "this just shows what brilliant Machiavellian geniuses they are, tricking the BBC into giving them all that publicity for free" bit? Standards are slipping.


----------



## ska invita (Jan 25, 2022)

brogdale said:


> The programme portrayed the founding owners as pretty standard capitalists, entitled, arrogant, greedy and with elements of personality disorders displaying symptoms of psychopathy and/or malevolent narcissism.
> 
> _"Punks"_


is partly why i find it hard to get too excited about any of this - standard stuff  - another one for the endless list
good luck to those kicking back against them


----------



## brogdale (Jan 25, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Are we really not going to have anyone giving it the "this just shows what brilliant Machiavellian geniuses they are, tricking the BBC into giving them all that publicity for free" bit? Standards are slipping.


Saving the trolls the bother again. 

Makes for a better thread.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 25, 2022)

Always of interest when the mood of a thread shifts, as this clearly has.


----------



## hash tag (Jan 25, 2022)

I haven't seen the programme yet. This make uncomfortable reading Brewdog chief James Watt accused of inappropriate behaviour


"James Watt declined to be interviewed for the BBC Disclosure programme." His solicitor was quoted.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Where were you when I was being bullied for the entertainment of certain posters on this thread? Didn't see you stepping up to the plate then.
> 
> No-one's making jokes about the intimidation or the inappropriate conduct. There's some play on words around the company itself, like the image of a beer called 'Damage Control'. If you can't see the difference then you really need to not post on Urban.


Thanks for keeping going.


----------



## baldrick (Jan 25, 2022)

hash tag said:


> I haven't seen the programme yet. This make uncomfortable reading Brewdog chief James Watt accused of inappropriate behaviour
> 
> 
> "James Watt declined to be interviewed for the BBC Disclosure programme." His solicitor was quoted.


Might be just me but I'm feeling like Watt's position here is a bit fragile now. He's spent a decade being the mouthpiece of brewdog and now it turns out he's a sexual predator as well as presiding over awful employment conditions that he tried to DARVO publicly and repeatedly.

I know someone else raised this earlier but how come we never hear from Martin Dickie?


----------



## Dogsauce (Jan 25, 2022)

Branson used to do this rebellious upstart/disrupter thing too. Same fucking shit here isn’t it? Only without the bargain fares.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 25, 2022)

The behaviour of Watt is appalling. There's no excuse for it. I shall be asking for "explanations" and, as an absolute minimum, apologies. There is no excuse for this behaviour. We all know better.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 25, 2022)




----------



## hash tag (Jan 25, 2022)

baldrick said:


> I know someone else raised this earlier but how come we never hear from Martin Dickie?



Silent partner?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> The behaviour of Watt is appalling. There's no excuse for it. I shall be asking for "explanations" and, as an absolute minimum, apologies. There is no excuse for this behaviour. We all know better.


Thank you for recognising this at last.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 25, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Thank you for recognising this at last.


It's a separate issue to the marketing


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

baldrick said:


> I know someone else raised this earlier but how come we never hear from Martin Dickie?


Dickie is the actual brewer, Watt is just the front man (and the gob who knows how to get publicity).  When Dickie does speak, he claims that he/they basically invented modern IPA’s, with the pale malt, different yeast and kiwi hops.  Although he forgets that he spent eighteen months at Thornbridge where they did all of that first, but were nothing like as good at marketing it.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> It's a separate issue to the marketing


Does the fact that so much of the marketing was a complete lie not bother you at all, or is that just horses for courses?


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> It's a separate issue to the marketing


It’s the underlying culture we’ve been pointing out for ages. That culture is the context within which the marketing must be  understood. This is what some of us have been saying. That’s the whole point.


----------



## xenon (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> The behaviour of Watt is appalling. There's no excuse for it. I shall be asking for "explanations" and, as an absolute minimum, apologies. There is no excuse for this behaviour. We all know better.



Yeah that will show him. Shut up and give him some more of your money.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> Dickie is the actual brewer, Watt is just the front man (and the gob who knows how to get publicity).  When Dickie does speak, he claims that he/they basically invented modern IPA’s, with the pale malt, different yeast and kiwi hops.  Although he forgets that he spent eighteen months at Thornbridge where they did all of that first, but were nothing like as good at marketing it.


Thornbridge are A4e scum, though, so fuck them for eternity.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Thornbridge are A4e scum, though, so fuck them for eternity.


Ohh absolutely (well, pedantically she is A4e and he is a completely separate husband, but, yeah…)

Unlike Brewdog though, they make their beers taste nice.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Thanks for keeping going.


I'm a stubborn middle aged woman. Feel my wrath.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> The behaviour of Watt is appalling. There's no excuse for it. I shall be asking for "explanations" and, as an absolute minimum, apologies. There is no excuse for this behaviour. We all know better.


And will you apologise for the way you behaved on this thread recently?


----------



## dessiato (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> And will you apologise for the way you behaved on this thread recently?


As I said earlier, the marketing and his behaviour are totally separate issues.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> As I said earlier, the marketing and his behaviour are totally separate issues.


No, no they are not. As has been repeatedly explained on this thread.

His predatory behaviour informed the company culture and the marketing. How are they separate issues?


----------



## dessiato (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> No, no they are not. As has been repeatedly explained on this thread.
> 
> His predatory behaviour informed the company culture and the marketing. How are they separate issues?


Think about it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> As I said earlier, the marketing and his behaviour are totally separate issues.


And you’re wrong.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> As I said earlier, the marketing and his behaviour are totally separate issues.


Foul and laddish behaviour fuels foul and laddish marketing. Selling bottles in the bodies of taxidermied squirrels is the act of a company with something very wrong, very twisted, at the very top. 

I acknowledge your contrition in recent posts, though I again have to wonder, why does the criticism of Brewdog bother you so much? Do you really, really like them, do you not like men getting called out for sexism, what is it about calling out Brewdog that you find objectionable?


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Think about it.


I think equationgirl probably has thought about it a bit. I think you may need to take your own advice here.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Think about it.


Don't do the cryptic Spymaster answers thing, it doesn't make you look clever. It makes you look like you're hiding.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> As I said earlier, the marketing and his behaviour are totally separate issues.


You can accept that the man has an awful attitude towards women but don’t think it shows in the marketing which is frequently slated for its attitude towards women? That’s deliberately perverse. 

Unless what you’re objecting to is how he took you for a complete mug with your ‘shares’


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Think about it.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 25, 2022)

Right I've thought about it. The two things are definitely connected.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Think about it.


Translation: I am out of justifications.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 25, 2022)

Bit of a derail, but I was a (perhaps naively?) taken aback at the footage in the programme of live events/venues where the BD fans looked worryingly cult-like in their adoration of the brand.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Bit of a derail, but I was a (perhaps naively?) taken aback at the footage in the programme of live events/venues where the BD fans looked worryingly cult-like in their adoration of the brand.


I would say it has been very much like a cult, encouraged by Brewdog.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 25, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Foul and laddish behaviour fuels foul and laddish marketing. Selling bottles in the bodies of taxidermied squirrels is the act of a company with something very wrong, very twisted, at the very top.
> 
> I acknowledge your contrition in recent posts, though I again have to wonder, why does the criticism of Brewdog bother you so much? Do you really, really like them, do you not like men getting called out for sexism, what is it about calling out Brewdog that you find objectionable?


Watt is the CEO. So the buck stops and starts with him. Even if Watt is not directly involved in marketing (which I doubt), it's his job to correct this after their first fuck up. He hasn't, so the continuing sexist and laddish marketing is his problem and a reflection of his direction for the company.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Don't do the cryptic Spymaster answers thing ...



What thing's that then?


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> Watt is the CEO. So the buck stops and starts with him. Even if Watt is not directly involved in marketing (which I doubt), it's his job to correct this after their first fuck up. He hasn't, so the continuing sexist and laddish marketing is his problem and a reflection of his direction for the company.


“Everything is marketing” - it’s his mantra


----------



## Santino (Jan 25, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> What thing's that then?


Work it out.


----------



## redsquirrel (Jan 25, 2022)

dessiato said:


> It's a separate issue to the marketing


What Danny said. 

It is ludicrous to separate the two. Can you really not see that the sort of "laddish" bantz that so much of the BrewDog marketing is based around is not connected to the sexist, bullying culture that Watt fosters inside the company?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> What thing's that then?


You know.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

But for the rest of us?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But for the rest of us?


Go back and read the last few pages of interactions with Spymaster and see how he answers when a direct question of any kind is put to him.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Go back and read the last few pages of interactions with Spymaster and see how he answers when a direct question of any kind is put to him.



Or you could point them out given it’s you referring to them?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Or you could point them out given it’s you referring to them?


I am not doing the hard work for you.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I am not doing the hard work for you.



It’s your claim not mine. It’s not my job to back your claims up. For the record I like Spymaster. He’s a good guy with a generous soul. I don’t always agree with him politically but at least he’s honest and true to himself rather than some rats who build themselves around how good they look on the internet


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’s your claim not mine. It’s not my job to back your claims up. For the record I like Spymaster. He’s a good guy with a generous soul. I don’t always agree with him politically but at least he’s honest and true to himself rather than some rats who build themselves around how good they look on the internet


One, you're the only person who needed it spelt out.

Two, on this thread he's been a bully and been called out for it. That's not my definition of a good guy with a generous soul  

Three, he's been an apologist for a company fuelled by misogyny.

Four, you're shit stirring again, despite claiming previously that you don't have an issue with feminism or feminists, and that you've changed. You do, and you haven't.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But for the rest of us?


I think the rest of us know exactly what she means.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> I think the rest of us know exactly what she means.



So point it out then!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

This thing happened. 

Where?

Oh go check yourself. 

Lol


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So point it out then!


just look at 4394 and maybe 4402, they sum it up.  Its the bullshit pseudo question as a way of avoiding an answer when someone can't actually defend themselves.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> This thing happened.
> 
> Where?
> 
> ...


It's not a single instance. It's his entire posting history. There is no point me posting every single instance of his cryptic posts as it will be tens of posts.

And you know he does this because being the cryptic poster is his thing. It's what he does. There's no debate or discussion, just snide asides and cryptic answers. 

Oh, and the bullying.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> It's not a single instance. It's his entire posting history. There is no point me posting every single instance of his cryptic posts as it will be tens of posts.
> 
> And you know he does this because being the cryptic poster is his thing. It's what he does. There's no debate or discussion, just snide asides and cryptic answers.
> 
> Oh, and the bullying.



I need to check when off phone (with belboid’s info) 

You can be a bully also so bear that in mind.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I need to check when off phone (with belboid’s info)
> 
> You can be a bully also so bear that in mind.


Please point to the posts where I have bullied, and by all means, report said posts so the mods can investigate.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Please point to the posts where I have bullied, and by all means, report said posts so the mods can investigate.



You jumped all over me when I stated some facts and only backed down when others pointed out I was telling the truth. Because you had an issue with me that took over your senses.


----------



## Raheem (Jan 25, 2022)

.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 25, 2022)

awww bless, the white knighting must be appreciated magnus but not sure it's needed tbf!


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You jumped all over me when I stated some facts and only backed down when others pointed out I was telling the truth. Because you had an issue with me that took over your senses.


Um, this is urban? The p&p forum? Where robust challenging is how we do things? And I did apologise, freely, and thanked you for holding me to account, iirc.

But 'took over my senses'? Seriously? Could the undertones of hysterical women be any stronger?

Get over yourself.


----------



## baldrick (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You jumped all over me when I stated some facts and only backed down when others pointed out I was telling the truth. Because you had an issue with me that took over your senses.


That's not bullying. She made a mistake!

If you don't like what people are saying on this thread, by all means leave. We won't be sorry to see you go.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Um, this is urban? The p&p forum? Where robust challenging is how we do things?



So Spymaster isn’t bullying then? 
As I thought.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

Well that was a simple trap lol. Carry on.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> So Spymaster isn’t bullying then?
> As I thought.


He called posters on this thread:

Silly
Beefwitted serial offence takers
Bonkers
Brainless

When complaints of misogyny were raised


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well that was a simple trap lol. Carry on.


Magnus, why don't you actually comment on the recent behaviour of James Watt, you know, add something to the discussion, instead of apologising for an apologist?


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> He called posters on this thread:
> 
> Silly
> Beefwitted serial offence takers
> ...


for which he continues to refuse to apologise.  He just sneers and tries to bully people who have the temerity to disagree with him and his massive brain.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

Looks like mr misogynist is having to walk back some of his claims and threats from yesterday.  I don’t think this will be ending in (libel) court.  









						Brewdog boss James Watt apologises but hits back at claims
					

James Watt said he "truly apologised" to anyone he made feel uncomfortable but hit out at "false claims".



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Magnus, why don't you actually comment on the recent behaviour of James Watt, you know, add something to the discussion, instead of apologising for an apologist?



I have a strong aversion to capitalism and its practices to the point where singling one or two companies out is just a liberal manoeuvre tbh. Let’s boycott these and all is fine.


----------



## baldrick (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I have a strong aversion to capitalism and its practices to the point where singling one or two companies out is just a liberal manoeuvre tbh. Let’s boycott these and all is fine.


But not a strong aversion to misogyny?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

baldrick said:


> But not a strong aversion to misogyny?



It would be encouraging if changes happened in Brewdog from the shop floor than tut-tutting on the internet through an organised workforce. That doesn’t make me a misogynist ffs.


----------



## weepiper (Jan 25, 2022)

Bloody interfering women, with their tut-tutting, eh?


----------



## NoXion (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Let’s boycott these and all is fine.



Who actually said this, though?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

weepiper said:


> Bloody interfering women, with their tut-tutting, eh?



Not at all. But there’s other companies who are worse from that perspective if that’s the focus.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Who actually said this, though?



Nobody. But then what’s the purpose of the thread then?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> He called posters on this thread:
> 
> Silly
> Beefwitted serial offence takers
> ...



That's shamefully uncharitable. 

I withdrew "beef-witted".


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It would be encouraging if changes happened in Brewdog from the shop floor than tut-tutting on the internet through an organised workforce. That doesn’t make me a misogynist ffs.


Of your 101 posts on this thread, the large majority are defending the company and/or spymaster.   You, not unlike James Watt, just don’t seem to consider women at all.


----------



## NoXion (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Nobody. But then what’s the purpose of the thread then?



You can criticise a company without having to call a boycott.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It would be encouraging if changes happened in Brewdog from the shop floor than tut-tutting on the internet through an organised workforce. That doesn’t make me a misogynist ffs.


Those on the Brewdog "shop floor" have been trying to better their lot, only to face the kind of prolonged doubt that you show in recent posts.


----------



## baldrick (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not at all. But there’s other companies who are worse from that perspective if that’s the focus.


If you're so interested in these other companies go and start a thread on them instead of derailing this one.

I don't care if you think we're 'doing politics wrong' or being a silly tut tutting woman, thanks.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> Of your 101 posts on this thread, the large majority are defending the company and/or spymaster.   You, not unlike James Watt, just don’t seem to consider women at all.



Which of those posts did I defend the company?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

baldrick said:


> If you're so interested in these other companies go and start a thread on them instead of derailing this one.
> 
> I don't care if you think we're 'doing politics wrong' or being a silly tut tutting woman, thanks.



Oh I dunno, maybe street prostitution could be a more pressing matter than a beer label?


----------



## baldrick (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Oh I dunno, maybe street prostitution could be a more pressing matter than a beer label?


Oh just go away you patronising fuckwit.


----------



## NoXion (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Oh I dunno, maybe street prostitution could be a more pressing matter than a beer label?



Then go and post in those threads if you really think that, and aren't just engaging in whataboutery.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Those on the Brewdog "shop floor" have been trying to better their lot, only to face the kind of prolonged doubt that you show in recent posts.



What prolonged doubt have I expressed towards trades unionism?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Then go and post in those threads if you really think that, and aren't just engaging in whataboutery.



Well there aren’t any. Because all focus is here.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

dp


----------



## NoXion (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well there aren’t any. Because all focus is here.



Well nothing has been stopping you from starting one since like, ever. Yet you clearly haven't done so, despite how important you claim to think it is.

i.e. you're engaging in whataboutery.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Well nothing has been stopping you from starting one since like, ever. Yet you clearly haven't done so, despite how important you claim to think it is.
> 
> i.e. you're engaging in whataboutery.



Yes the worst thing happening to women is a beer label. Whataboutery. Have a word with yourself ffs.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Which of those posts did I defend the company?


All the ones where you defended them from the accusations of sexism for starters.  Has your memory gone?


----------



## NoXion (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yes the worst thing happening to women is a beer label.



Your words, not mine. You fucking have a word with yourself. You're literally using the exploitation of women to distract from the point. Dick.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> All the ones where you defended them from the accusations of sexism for starters.  Has your memory gone?



I didn’t defend them. I said I hadn’t heard Growler ever used as a pejorative personally but was happy to be corrected.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Your words, not mine. You fucking have a word with yourself. You're literally using the exploitation of women to distract from the point. Dick.



You start a thread then.


----------



## NoXion (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> You start a thread then.



I'm not the the one criticising the existence of this thread. _You_ were the one who said: 



Magnus McGinty said:


> maybe street prostitution could be a more pressing matter than a beer label?


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What prolonged doubt have I expressed towards trades unionism?


Are you a yoga teacher, because that's a stretch.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

NoXion said:


> I'm not the the one criticising the existence of this thread. _You_ were the one who said:



What’s wrong with that comment?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Are you a yoga teacher, because that's a stretch.



Who did you used to be btw?


----------



## NoXion (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What’s wrong with that comment?



The context in which it's being used. It's a desperate attempt by you to say "but look over there!" when you know your "argument" (such as it is) is cobblers.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

NoXion said:


> The context in which it's being used. It's a desperate attempt by you to say "but look over there!" when you know your "argument" (such as it is) is cobblers.



What’s cobblers about my argument?


----------



## NoXion (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What’s cobblers about my argument?



You know. Well-founded arguments don't need to be buttressed with fallacies like "well, X thing is worse, why don't you care about that?"


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

NoXion said:


> You know. Well-founded arguments don't need to be buttressed with fallacies like "well, X thing is worse, why don't you care about that?"



Well it kind of does if someone thinks a beer label is the worst thing going on.


----------



## NoXion (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well it kind of does if someone thinks a beer label is the worst thing going on.



Except that nobody thinks that. That's a fantasy you're engaging in.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Except that nobody thinks that. That's a fantasy you're engaging in.



How far back do I need to look through your posts to find your other concerns?


----------



## NoXion (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> How far back do I need to look through your posts to find your other concerns?



What the fuck has that got to do with anything?


----------



## tonysingh (Jan 25, 2022)

I like how this thread has stayed entirely on topic and in no way has morphed into a row.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

No concerns
No concerns
No concerns 
No concerns 
Brewdog label!!!
No concerns
No concerns


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not at all. But there’s other companies who are worse from that perspective if that’s the focus.


Please name these companies.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yes the worst thing happening to women is a beer label. Whataboutery. Have a word with yourself ffs.


Nobody is saying that the worse thing happening to women is 'a beer label'. That's so not the point of the thread 

But by contributing to misogyny through their products, company culture and marketing, Brewdog are making the overall situation faced by women in and out of their business, worse


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 25, 2022)

No doubt Magnus’ thread on street prostitution will be an absolute belter. And his mega thread on the totalising effects of capitalism and what can be done about that.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Oh I dunno, maybe street prostitution could be a more pressing matter than a beer label?



That must explain why you've posted in this thread about a beer label what, 120 times so far? While this is your contribution on the topic of prostitution.

Always worth remembering when doing whataboutery posts on urban that it's very easy to see _exactly_ how committed to the bit you are.


----------



## Fozzie Bear (Jan 25, 2022)

For me, sometimes a useful discussion can be had about forms that capitalism takes in specific workplaces. 

Wider culture, documentaries, the intersecting oppressions unleashed by sexist hipster twats. 

It can highlight the tasks of workers organisations like this:


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> That must explain why you've posted in this thread about a beer label what, 120 times so far? While this is your contribution on the topic of prostitution.
> 
> Always worth remembering when doing whataboutery posts on urban that it's very easy to see _exactly_ how committed to the bit you are.



I sometimes work for a living. I was gone from here for 8 months last year. You were gone for a while also. So pointing to threads for levels of commitment can be a bit misleading.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

I don't know why you're trying to bring prostitution into this particular thread, Magnus, it's a distraction and so far there is zero evidence of Brewdog being involved in prostitution.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I don't know why you're trying to bring prostitution into this particular thread, Magnus, it's a distraction and so far there is zero evidence of Brewdog being involved in prostitution.



I was saying that in terms of misogyny in society there’s far worse than a beer label. I’m sure you’d agree?


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 25, 2022)

Ah yes, that must be why you've been posting in this thread since 2018 and in that same four-year time period have posted in precisely no threads at all about prostitution. You've got nowhere to go with that one Magnus, just admit it was a fucking stupid thing to try and get on your high horse about and move on.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I was saying that in terms of misogyny in society there’s far worse than a beer label. I’m sure you’d agree?





equationgirl said:


> Nobody is saying that the worse thing happening to women is 'a beer label'. That's so not the point of the thread
> 
> But by contributing to misogyny through their products, company culture and marketing, Brewdog are making the overall situation faced by women in and out of their business, worse


----------



## two sheds (Jan 25, 2022)

Does this mean I've got to stop posting on the Snooker thread because there are things far more important in society?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I was saying that in terms of misogyny in society there’s far worse than a beer label. I’m sure you’d agree?


I'm sure you'd agree trying to rate actions in terms of misogyny is pointless. All of misogyny is bad, whether it's (as you keep insisting) 'a beer label' or the way complaints about misogyny are raised.

It's not 'a beer label' by the way, IT'S THE WHOLE OF BREWDOG'S ACTIVITIES FROM THE CEO TO THE CULTURE AND THE MARKETING. NOT A FUCKING SINGLE LABEL'.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Ah yes, that must be why you've been posting in this thread since 2018 and in that same four-year time period have posted in precisely no threads at all about prostitution. You've got nowhere to go with that one Magnus, just admit it was a fucking stupid thing to try and get on your high horse about and move on.



Given your amazing abilities to search threads, can you find any about prostitution between 2018 and now?


----------



## tonysingh (Jan 25, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Does this mean I've got to stop posting on the Snooker thread because there are things far more important in society?



You'll have to join the cue to post there. 




(Sorry, I'm ashamed of myself)


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Given your amazing abilities to search threads, can you find any about prostitution between 2018 and now?


Surely you would have started one yourself, given your evident interest in the subject. No? How odd. It's almost as though you were thoughtlessly trying to weaponise a different, emotive topic to try and shut people up about this one. A supposedly pointless thread where, I will note, you are _still posting_.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Surely you would have started one yourself, given your evident interest in the subject. No? How odd. It's almost as though you were thoughtlessly trying to weaponise a different, emotive topic to try and shut people up about this one. A supposedly pointless thread where, I will note, you are _still posting_.



Oh now you’re trying to twist it. But given I said I was surprised that more pressing matters weren’t being discussed all you’ve done is confirm my point.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 25, 2022)

All you've done is made a fool of yourself and fail to have the good grace/sense to admit it.


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Jan 25, 2022)

I just thought I'd drop in again and see how the thread is going.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I didn’t defend them. I said I hadn’t heard Growler ever used as a pejorative personally but was happy to be corrected.


I don’t think saying ‘it’s no worse than loose women’ is really accepting being corrected.   Especially when you go on to minimise their misogyny by falsely claiming the complaints are about a beer label.  Over the last couple of weeks your posts have been all about refuting other people’s complaints about the company.   That’s seriously apologist behaviour.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> I don’t think saying ‘it’s no worse than loose women’ is really accepting being corrected.   Especially when you go on to minimise their misogyny by falsely claiming the complaints are about a beer label.  Over the last couple of weeks your posts have been all about refuting other people’s complaints about the company.   That’s seriously apologist behaviour.


I get quite a lot from debates from opposing views. More than nodding along.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I get quite a lot from debates from opposing views. More than nodding along.


Everyone else just gets to see you acting like a prick.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> Everyone else just gets to see you acting like a prick.


Not sure you speak for everyone but I'll take that.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I'll take that


The problem in a nutshell.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 25, 2022)

This thread could have been about twenty pages of the same few people nodding along and agreeing with each other, and read by no-one else. Instead it's 150 pages long with a wide ranging and engaged audience. This has ensured that the issues discussed have reached the attention of many more people than they otherwise would have. Really, those who have made careful but provocative interventions throughout its course should be thanked. They won't, of course, but that's not what really matters in the end.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not sure you speak for everyone but I'll take that.


I rather belboid spoke for me than others on this thread did so.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

#WeStandByBelboid


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I get quite a lot from debates from opposing views. More than nodding along.


Please, do share what you're gaining from the 'it's just marketing' side of the debate, because so far that appears to be the side you seem to identify with.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 25, 2022)

All hail three unheralded heroes, those brave men who stand a post and, where no-one else will, spend their evenings defending a massive bell-end while declaring there's nothing to see here to "create a debate."


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> #WeStandByBelboid


You know that bit where you were told the rest of us just get to see you acting like a prick?

That.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Please, do share what you're gaining from the 'it's just marketing' side of the debate, because so far that appears to be the side you seem to identify with.


I don't believe I was present through that part of the thread.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> You know that bit where you were told the rest of us just get to see you acting like a prick?
> 
> That.


A bit of name calling. Right after you accused others of bullying.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

teuchter said:


> This thread could have been about twenty pages of the same few people nodding along and agreeing with each other, and read by no-one else. Instead it's 150 pages long with a wide ranging and engaged audience. This has ensured that the issues discussed have reached the attention of many more people than they otherwise would have. Really, those who have made careful but provocative interventions throughout its course should be thanked. They won't, of course, but that's not what really matters in the end.


Those who have made thoughtful comments _have_ been welcomed.  Those three sad tosspots who have contributed a quarter of the 4K posts between them defending this awful company have just made themselves look stupid.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

You said you gain from opposing views. That's an opposing view. So explain what you gained from it.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> You said you gain from opposing views. That's an opposing view. So explain what you gained from it.


Name calling is an opposing view? It's just name calling. You complained about Spymaster doing it and now here you are.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> A bit of name calling. Right after you accused others of bullying.


No, I have called out your behaviour. Not called you a name.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> A bit of name calling. Right after you accused others of bullying.


It’s the name you proudly adopted.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Name calling is an opposing view? It's just name calling. You complained about Spymaster doing it and now here you are.


No, that was in response to your 'oh I wasn't here for that particular opposing view' post.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Name calling is an opposing view? It's just name calling. You complained about Spymaster doing it and now here you are.


You’re not serious about any of this are you?


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 25, 2022)

Now is this any way to talk to the saviours of the Brewdog debate? Who bravely defended that creepy douchebag company fellow and demanded everybody stop talking about Brewdog?  

Hmm. Yes, yes it probably is.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

This is fucking tedious, I'm off to bed. Laters people.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> It’s the name you proudly adopted.


Yes from you. But EG is being hypocritical.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> Those who have made thoughtful comments _have_ been welcomed.  Those three sad tosspots who have contributed a quarter of the 4K posts between them defending this awful company have just made themselves look stupid.



 Oh, bellers!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

belboid said:


> You’re not serious about any of this are you?


Not really.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Yes from you. But EG is being hypocritical.


Yeah, of course I am. Says the man who's been on a tedious wind up for at least the last hour)


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Yeah, of course I am. Says the man who's been on a tedious wind up for at least the last hour)


I thought you'd gone to bed!


----------



## AverageJoe (Jan 25, 2022)

Fuck off Magnus you cunt


----------



## tonysingh (Jan 25, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> Fuck off Magnus you cunt



Diplomatically put that.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 25, 2022)

I do appreciate how swearing and name calling is allowed on here. I got a 24hr ban on facebook for calling an anti-vaxxer a wanker. They revoked it though after I said I believed the comment should be allowed and they just hid it instead.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 25, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Really, those who have made careful but provocative interventions throughout its course should be thanked. *They won't, of course,* but that's not what really matters in the end.



Yet another spot-on prediction from me.


----------



## belboid (Jan 25, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Yet another spot-on prediction from me.


The fact that you can only find solace in pleasuring yourself surprises me not at all.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 25, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I do appreciate how swearing and name calling is allowed on here. I got a 24hr ban on facebook for calling an anti-vaxxer a wanker. They revoked it though after I said I believed the comment should be allowed and they just hid it instead.



Once again, it's all about you, isn't it?

Never mind the workers or the victims.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 26, 2022)




----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> Fuck off Magnus you cunt


Is that bullying or just robust debate?


----------



## Poot (Jan 26, 2022)

You know the rules, people. You're only allowed to talk about the absolute worst things that ever happen to people. That's why every single other thread on this site is about genocide.

Every. Single. One.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

belboid said:


> When Dickie does speak, he claims that he/they basically invented modern IPA’s, with the pale malt, different yeast and kiwi hops.  Although he forgets that he spent eighteen months at Thornbridge where they did all of that first, but were nothing like as good at marketing it.



Which is all bollocks. Hoppy, fizzy, modern IPAs were around long before BrewDog. Punk IPA was always a pale imitation (geddit?) of the likes of Sierra Nevada.

I've actually got a diary entry from the Summer of 2000 when I first "discovered" this kind of beer. Stuck the label in and everything. By the time BD was founded the "craft beer revolution" was an international phenomenon. There were two bars on my street in Milan back then for example selling all kinds of "modern IPAs" (and modern stouts and more that BD didn't pick up till later).

They "invented" nothing.

BD's only advantage ever was that for a while they were easier to find in supermarkets and chain pubs.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> Which is all bollocks. Hoppy, fizzy, modern IPAs were around long before BrewDog. Punk IPA was always a pale imitation (geddit?) of the likes of Sierra Nevada.
> 
> I've actually got a diary entry from the Summer of 2000 when I first "discovered" this kind of beer. Stuck the label in and everything. By the time BD was founded the "craft beer revolution" was an international phenomenon. There were two bars on my street in Milan back then for example selling all kinds of "modern IPAs" (and modern stouts and more that BD didn't pick up till later).
> 
> ...



Their big win was the UK market, pretty moribund at the time. I'm sure we all remember how drab the choice was for drinkers, both cask and keg. They were lucky, many brands tried and failed, and Tiny Rebel in Cardiff certainly seem highly influenced by the style if not the tone.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> Which is all bollocks. Hoppy, fizzy, modern IPAs were around long before BrewDog. Punk IPA was always a pale imitation (geddit?) of the likes of Sierra Nevada.
> 
> I've actually got a diary entry from the Summer of 2000 when I first "discovered" this kind of beer. Stuck the label in and everything. By the time BD was founded the "craft beer revolution" was an international phenomenon. There were two bars on my street in Milan back then for example selling all kinds of "modern IPAs" (and modern stouts and more that BD didn't pick up till later).
> 
> ...


Good marketing.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Good marketing.


No, good distribution.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> No, good distribution.


Partly.  But there'd be nowhere to distribute it without good marketing in the first place.


----------



## two sheds (Jan 26, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Their big win was the UK market, pretty moribund at the time. I'm sure we all remember how drab the choice was for drinkers, both cask and keg. They were lucky, many brands tried and failed, and Tiny Rebel in Cardiff certainly seem highly influenced by the style if not the tone.


The fizzy beer market was moribund you mean? There's always that I remember been good dark-type beer around which is what I like. Not keen on the fizzy type.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> No, good distribution.


In what way is BD’s distribution different to others that explains their runaway success?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Their big win was the UK market, pretty moribund at the time. I'm sure we all remember how drab the choice was for drinkers, both cask and keg.



The UK beer market hasn't been moribund since the 70s. In the 90s/2000s it was thriving with an enormous choice of cask and keg beers. The growth sector that BD seemed to ride was the "Craft Beer" uplift of the 2000s, where small breweries got into this hateful habit of over-fizzing and over-hopping their products and describing beer as "citrussy".


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> In what way is BD’s distribution different to others that explains their runaway success?


You could (and still can) buy it in any Tesco/the Co-Op etc. - unlike, say, Wild Weather or Double Barrelled. 

This advantage has lessened over the years, Tesco for example now carries other brands more regularly. But it remains the case that BrewDog is still more widely available than many other "craft brewers".


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Partly.  But there'd be nowhere to distribute it without good marketing in the first place.


Marketing to who? Perhaps in terms of marketing to the big distributers? I dunno about that side of things. But if Punk was the only fizzy, hoppy, IPA on the shelf then it's marketing to the consumer looking for a fizzy, hoppy, IPA was largely irrelevant.

...but, of course, you could argue argue that BD's marketing grew that sector of consumer (and thus made them more attractive to the big distros). I wouldn't know about that, it's not of huge interest to me.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> Marketing to who? Perhaps in terms of marketing to the big distributers? I dunno about that side of things. But if Punk was the only fizzy, hoppy, IPA on the shelf then it's marketing to the consumer looking for a fizzy, hoppy, IPA was largely irrelevant.
> 
> ...but, of course, you could argue argue that BD's marketing grew that sector of consumer (and thus made them more attractive to the big distros). I wouldn't know about that, it's not of huge interest to me.


Business to Business marketing.  To retailers, wholesalers, distributors.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Business to Business marketing.  To retailers, wholesalers, distributors.


Fair enough. I wonder if they use(d) the same "edgy" strategy in those campaigns?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> Fair enough. I wonder if they use(d) the same "edgy" strategy in those campaigns?



Are you suggesting that BD's consumer marketing has _nothing_ to do with their success?


----------



## belboid (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> Which is all bollocks. Hoppy, fizzy, modern IPAs were around long before BrewDog. Punk IPA was always a pale imitation (geddit?) of the likes of Sierra Nevada.
> 
> I've actually got a diary entry from the Summer of 2000 when I first "discovered" this kind of beer. Stuck the label in and everything. By the time BD was founded the "craft beer revolution" was an international phenomenon. There were two bars on my street in Milan back then for example selling all kinds of "modern IPAs" (and modern stouts and more that BD didn't pick up till later).
> 
> ...


Watt has a well rehearsed bit of patter that he was inspired by Sierra Nevada.  He was just incapable of making it till Dickie learnt how whilst at thornbridge.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 26, 2022)

This is an interesting article about Brew Dog marketing. I've not yet read all of it, only the first half, but it's very good from the point of view of marketing. 





__





						Loading…
					





					www.themarketingconcept.com


----------



## Idaho (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Are you suggesting that BD's consumer marketing has _nothing_ to do with their success?


Doesn't matter how well you market a beer. If it's not on the shelf at your local supermarket, it won't sell much.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 26, 2022)

_beer drinkers who desire a quality beer with epistemic qualities _


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

Idaho said:


> Doesn't matter how well you market a beer. If it's not on the shelf at your local supermarket, it won't sell much.


If the product is not well marketed, the supermarkets won't be so keen to have it on their shelves.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> If the product is not well marketed, the supermarkets won't be so keen to have it on their shelves.



You say that but the supermarkets are always full of bottles of white cider and super strength lager.  When was the last time you saw an advert for Frosty Jacks or any other tramp fuel for that matter?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

Teaboy said:


> You say that but the supermarkets are always full of bottles of white cider and super strength lager.  When was the last time you saw an advert for Frosty Jacks or any other tramp fuel for that matter?


As consumers, we don't see the marketing that is done by the manufacturers to the retailers.


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 26, 2022)

Teaboy said:


> You say that but the supermarkets are always full of bottles of white cider and super strength lager.  When was the last time you saw an advert for Frosty Jacks or any other tramp fuel for that matter?


quite interesting article on high strength cider









						The killer on Britain’s streets – super-strength alcohol
					

Budget needs to help tackle death toll of country’s rough sleepers, say experts




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> As consumers, we don't see the marketing that is done by the manufacturers to the retailers.



That's not really how FMCG works.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Are you suggesting that BD's consumer marketing has _nothing_ to do with their success?


No. I make no claims on this beyond my own experience from within - I would assume - their initial target market.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

Idaho said:


> Doesn't matter how well you market a beer. If it's not on the shelf at your local supermarket, it won't sell much.



This is arse about face though, isn't it? 

Why would supermarkets stock a brand that they don't consider to be effectively marketed?


----------



## Idaho (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is arse about face though, isn't it?
> 
> Why would supermarkets stock a brand that they don't consider to be effectively marketed?


I take it you work in marketing?


----------



## belboid (Jan 26, 2022)

They only really needed to do marketing to retailers to get it into the stores in the first place.  After that it’s overwhelmingly down to sales.  Given BDs strong brand recognition with the public I doubt they’d have even needed that much creativity in the first place.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

It's also interesting to note that few other "craft brewers" seem to have copied BD's "genius marketing strategy" of being edgelord dickheads.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is arse about face though, isn't it?
> 
> Why would supermarkets stock a brand that they don't consider to be effectively marketed?



Margin, willingness to assist in promotions, robustness of supply chain especially during promotional periods, they come along with several other lines which are useful to the supermarket etc.  There are loads of reasons supermarkets stock certain products.  How that product is marketed is only one of those.

There are shit load of real ales available in supermarkets which have tiny marketing budgets and what budget they have is little more than a bit of artwork for the label.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> It's also interesting to note that few other "craft brewers" seem to have copied BD's "genius marketing strategy" of being edgelord dickheads.



Whilst few others (if any?) have achieved anywhere near their success.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

...and for some reason Tesco et al. don't seem to have gone all in on reproducing BD's marketing/brand identity next to the product.  Instead it's the quietly anonymous white cardboard boxes of Punk and Dead Pony that are prominent on their shelves.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

Teaboy said:


> Margin, willingness to assist in promotions, robustness of supply chain especially during promotional periods, they come along with several other lines which are useful to the supermarket etc.  There are loads of reasons supermarkets stock certain products.  How that product is marketed is only one of those.
> 
> There are shit load of real ales available in supermarkets which have tiny marketing budgets and what budget they have is little more than a bit of artwork for the label.



Do they shift as much product through those outlets as BD?


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Whilst few others (if any?) have achieved anywhere near their success.


Depends upon what you mean by success I guess. If you simply mean profit (rather than, say, credibility or reputation or quality) then sure. But it seems not all brewers share that definition. Indeed, I was chatting to one brewer a couple of years back who steadfastly refused to expand his brewery beyond the ability to supply local pubs and selected shops because of the compromises that would entail.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Do they shift as much product through those outlets as BD?



The big brewers that have numerous different lines in their portfolio will.  They will shift a lot more.  The smaller brewers with one or two lines no, because they have less lines.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> ...and for some reason Tesco et al. don't seem to have gone all in on reproducing BD's marketing/brand identity next to the product.  Instead it's the quietly anonymous white cardboard boxes of Punk and Dead Pony that are prominent on their shelves.



Supermarkets don't reproduce any corporate branding next to the products they sell, do they? Unless it's a special promotion they just stick the products on the shelves


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> Depends upon what you mean by success I guess. If you simply mean profit (rather than, say, credibility or reputation or quality) then sure.



Yes. That's what I meant.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

Teaboy said:


> The big brewers that have numerous different lines in their portfolio will.  They will shift a lot more.



In which case BD's success over such brands isn't isn't down to supermarket distribution.

You can't have it both ways. Either it's all about distribution, or there's something else in play.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Why would supermarkets stock a brand that they don't consider to be effectively marketed?








What do you think the marketing budget for Crownfield, Harvest Morn or Snackrite is?


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Supermarkets don't reproduce any corporate branding next to the products they sell, do they? Unless it's a special promotion they just stick the products on the shelves


I've seen them do promotions of BD stuff, but not using BD imagery. I've seen other promotions that have used the brand's imagery. Maybe they don't regarding alcohol? Though I'm sure I've Carling (for example) promoted heavily in store using Carling brand identity.

It's not a key point anyway, was just a passing observation.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jan 26, 2022)

Teaboy said:


> You say that but the supermarkets are always full of bottles of white cider and super strength lager.  When was the last time you saw an advert for Frosty Jacks or any other tramp fuel for that matter?



More to the point - is whoever makes Frosty Jacks a twat or not?


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Supermarkets don't reproduce any corporate branding next to the products they sell, do they? Unless it's a special promotion they just stick the products on the shelves


 This kinda thing:


----------



## dessiato (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> If the product is not well marketed, the supermarkets won't be so keen to have it on their shelves.





Spymaster said:


> Supermarkets don't reproduce any corporate branding next to the products they sell, do they? Unless it's a special promotion they just stick the products on the shelves


Supermarkets are sometimes paid to take the product, and pay for the shelf placing.

A few years ago I worked with a European marketing director, and an international marketing manager, both of whom were in FMCG. They both placed products in Tesco, and other large European supermarkets. It was very interesting to hear how much time, effort, and money were spent getting products onto productive shelves.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> This kinda thing:


These are produced by the company, and supermarkets are paid to do this placement


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2022)

Why is it that some people are so resistant to the notion that Brewdog's marketing strategy is highly effective?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Why is it that some people are so resistant to the notion that Brewdog's marketing strategy is highly effective?



I think everyone knows that it is, and always has been. 

It's just become the point that _can't be conceded on this thread! _


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

belboid said:


> Watt has a well rehearsed bit of patter that he was inspired by Sierra Nevada.  He was just incapable of making it till Dickie learnt how whilst at thornbridge.


They both did a degree in brewing and distilling, so he should have been mostly capable.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Why is it that some people are so resistant to the notion that Brewdog's marketing strategy is highly effective?


Because they conflate the marketing with the other sides of the business. They don't understand that there's a difference. Whether you like the product, whether you like the perceived message, etc, the marketing is successful. 

Unfortunately the zealots here cannot differentiate the appalling behaviour of Watt from the actual marketing, and often the product. 

Watt comes across very badly as a person. Although he undoubtedly has input into the marketing the probability is that the marketing is done through a team. This team will make the decisions on the campaigns, branding etc. It's how these things work.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Because they conflate the marketing with the other sides of the business. They don't understand that there's a difference. Whether you like the product, whether you like the perceived message, etc, the marketing is successful.
> 
> Unfortunately the zealots here cannot differentiate the appalling behaviour of Watt from the actual marketing, and often the product.
> 
> Watt comes across very badly as a person. Although he undoubtedly has input into the marketing the probability is that the marketing is done through a team. This team will make the decisions on the campaigns, branding etc. It's how these things work.


You have yet to explain how the actions of the person are separate from the marketing, when both are misogynistic.

There's no way, the marketing team came up with a campaign that he didn't sign off on.

Have you had your apology from Brewdog yet?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> This kinda thing:





I don't think there's much merit in this line of argument.


----------



## belboid (Jan 26, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Because they conflate the marketing with the other sides of the business. They don't understand that there's a difference. Whether you like the product, whether you like the perceived message, etc, the marketing is successful.
> 
> Unfortunately the zealots here cannot differentiate the appalling behaviour of Watt from the actual marketing, and often the product.
> 
> Watt comes across very badly as a person. Although he undoubtedly has input into the marketing the probability is that the marketing is done through a team. This team will make the decisions on the campaigns, branding etc. It's how these things work.


“Everything is marketing” - Watts mantra.   His persona is the marketing and the marketing is his persona.  

Yours is the kind of argument you’d get from some bloke who claimed he went to Hooters ‘for the food’


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I think everyone knows that it is, and always has been.
> 
> It's just become the point that _can't be conceded on this thread! _


I don't think anyone denies that BD have generated huge profits for their owners (not the likes of you dessiato just the actual owners!)  and that their marketing has contributed to that.

...but is making a profit really people's bottom line for determining whether something is 'good' or not?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> ...but is making a profit really people's bottom line for determining whether something is 'good' or not?



Very obviously, that depends on your perspective.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> View attachment 307501
> 
> I don't think there's much merit in this line of argument.


Its not an argument. It was an observation. I was curious as to why their "genius marketing" wasn't being deployed at point of sale. Perhaps it has.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> I don't think anyone denies that BD have generated huge profits for their owners (not the likes of you dessiato just the actual owners!)  and that their marketing has contributed to that.
> 
> ...but is making a profit really people's bottom line for determining whether something is 'good' or not?


No.  But it's a pretty good indicator of whether a company's marketing strategy has been successful!


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Very obviously, that depends on your perspective.


Clearly.

...but a little more honesty on the bottom line rather than weak defences would be refreshing.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> No.  But it's a pretty good indicator of whether a company's marketing strategy has been successful!


Successful? Profitable. If you want to come out and say the only thing that matters is making money then say so.


----------



## belboid (Jan 26, 2022)

Nobody denies that their marketing strategy was successful.  Whether it will come back to bite them in the arse once it’s connection with bullying and misogyny is a different one.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> Successful? Profitable. If you want to come out and say the only thing that matters is making money then say so.


It's not the only thing that matters to me.  But I'm sure it's the only thing that matters to the vast majority of company owners.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> Successful? Profitable. If you want to come out and say the only thing that matters is making money then say so.



It's the top priority for a whole bunch or people.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's the top priority for a whole bunch or people.



It really isn't. Otherwise we'd all be out mugging old ladies.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

belboid said:


> Nobody denies that their marketing strategy was successful.  Whether it will come back to bite them in the arse once it’s connection with bullying and misogyny is a different one.



I doubt it will in any significant way. JW might end up moving on to his next venture but even that's a long shot.

My guess is that BD will turn this into a marketing opportunity, "We've Learnt From Our Mistakes" style.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> It really isn't. Otherwise we'd all be out mugging old ladies.



It really is. You're just in a different "bunch of people".


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

But they haven't Spymaster they haven't learnt from their mistakes.


----------



## Poot (Jan 26, 2022)

To some people success is about more than money. Ikr. Mindblowing.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

Poot said:


> To some people success is about more than money. Ikr. Mindblowing.



To others, it isn't. Stop the press.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

It really is. You're just in a different "bunch of people".
What's your, personal, bottom line? 

Fill in the blank:

"I'd do anything for cash, but I won't do..."


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> But they haven't Spymaster they haven't learnt from their mistakes.



Whether or not they do in the future remains to be seen but either way it won't stop them saying they have.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> What's your, personal, bottom line?



My personal feelings are neither here nor there. Neither are yours.

We just have to recognise that success means deifferent things top different people and in the world of business, profitability is considered an enormous indicator.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

"I don't like their advertising, therefore they're unsuccessful" is a ridiculous position.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> My personal feelings are neither here nor there. Neither are yours.
> 
> We just have to recognise that success means deifferent things top different people and in the world of business, profitability is considered an enormous indicator.



Should we shrug our shoulders and accept that anything goes so long as the bosses are getting rich?


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> "I don't like their advertising, therefore they're unsuccessful" is a ridiculous position.


It would be if anyone held that position.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> It would be if anyone held that position.



It's pretty bloody close the one you're arguing, tbf!


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2022)

Thread summary:

A bunch of slightly silly people saying this:



chilango said:


> If you want to come out and say the only thing that matters is making money then say so.



Then getting all wound up when no-one actually says that.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's pretty bloody close the one you're arguing, tbf!


Close if you're not reading very carefully perhaps!

I'm arguing that:

whilst their marketing strategy may contribute to BD making its owners money...
there are more criteria for success - even for a commercial brewer - than just profit at any cost.
profit generation does not excuse or justify bigoted or antisocial behaviour.
BrewDog engage in bigoted and antisocial behaviour, causing real harm.
I disagree that this is ok so long as they're making money. 

Which of these points do you take issue with?


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Thread summary:
> 
> A bunch of slightly silly people saying this:
> 
> ...


 I'm not wound up. I'm avoiding work.

...but, please, do continue to not say that. In fact, go one better and not say anything. We'll see if we notice the difference.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Why is it that some people are so resistant to the notion that Brewdog's marketing strategy is highly effective?


Because it's reductive, sexist, boorish, crude, ridiculous, outdated, and leery?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Because it's reductive, sexist, boorish, crude, ridiculous, outdated, and leery?


And yet it's been very successful.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> And yet it's been very successful.


 so does that mean its ok?


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It’s your claim not mine. It’s not my job to back your claims up. For the record I like Spymaster. He’s a good guy with a generous soul. I don’t always agree with him politically but at least he’s honest and true to himself rather than some rats who build themselves around how good they look on the internet


You mean here? Time to name names if you're going to keep slopping this accusatory bullshit around.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

I look good on the internet


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Thread summary:
> 
> A bunch of slightly silly people saying this:
> 
> ...


Fuck off teuchter.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> And yet it's been very successful.


That doesn't make it ok.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> so does that mean its ok?


No.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

It's irrelevant whether the marketing was successful or not, the point is is that the marketing is misogynistic.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 26, 2022)

I agree their marketing is successful, but it's built on sexism and misogyny. Is that OK teuchter  and Spymaster?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> In fact, go one better and not say anything. We'll see if we notice the difference.


Of course you will.


----------



## Poot (Jan 26, 2022)

Success is quite an elastic word, isn't it?


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Thread summary:
> 
> A bunch of slightly silly people saying this:
> 
> ...


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> It's irrelevant whether the marketing was successful or not, the point is is that the marketing is misogynistic.


This ⬆️


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

Also, are Spymaster teuchter and dessiato saying that anything goes in marketing so long as it's successful? 

Where does the line get drawn - is white supremacy ok? Racism? Slavery?  Homophobia? Transphobia? Disablism? What about Nazi ideology?


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

For the record. I accept that BD's marketing may have been profitable. But - for me at least - profitable ≠ successful.

So I repeat EQ's question (with that semantic caveat).


equationgirl said:


> Also, are Spymaster teuchter and dessiato saying that anything goes in marketing so long as it's successful?
> 
> Where does the line get drawn - is white supremacy ok? Racism? Slavery?  Homophobia? Transphobia? Disablism? What about Nazi ideology?


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Also, are Spymaster teuchter and dessiato saying that anything goes in marketing so long as it's successful?


What are you on about? Are you actually, seriously claiming not to know the answer to this question?


----------



## DaphneM (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> It's irrelevant whether the marketing was successful or not, the point is is that the marketing is misogynistic.


i think you could probably argue that it's irrelevant whether the marketing was misogynistic or not, the point is is that the marketing is successful


----------



## Poot (Jan 26, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i think you could probably argue that it's irrelevant whether the marketing was misogynistic or not, the point is is that the marketing is successful


You mean profitable. It certainly succeeded in being misogynistic.


----------



## ddraig (Jan 26, 2022)

You could argue all sorts if the response results in a gleeful 'gotcha' or 'sticking it to the libs/feminists/people who give a shit' for your jollies, sad tho tbf!


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> I agree their marketing is successful, but it's built on sexism and misogyny. Is that OK teuchter  and Spymaster?





equationgirl said:


> Also, are Spymaster teuchter and dessiato saying that anything goes in marketing so long as it's successful?
> 
> Where does the line get drawn - is white supremacy ok? Racism? Slavery?  Homophobia? Transphobia? Disablism? What about Nazi ideology?





chilango said:


> For the record. I accept that BD's marketing may have been profitable. But - for me at least - profitable ≠ successful.
> 
> So I repeat EQ's question (with that semantic caveat).



Ok, where the line gets drawn is precisely the issue.

Different people have different ideas on what constitutes a lot of "isms", or at least how serious infractions of them are. Whilst we would all agree that certain terms and tropes are unnacceptable, the agreement seperates as you get further down the scale. Also, whether or not firms should be sanctioned for such advertising or imagery will be similarly subjective. Fwiw, I think BD's use of those half naked punk women was pretty tacky. Should it be banned? Probably not. There'll be other people who think it's great. Same with "Growler". Many posters here got up in arms about it. Many other people couldn't care less and at least one woman _on this website_ found it "clever".

If everyone agreed where these boundaries should be drawn there'd be no need for complaints organisations, or at least every complaint made would be upheld/rejected. I assume equationgirl , that you have made a complaint to the ASA about "growler". What was their response?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i think you could probably argue that it's irrelevant whether the marketing was misogynistic or not, the point is is that the marketing is successful


Misogyny is never irrelevant.


----------



## Poot (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Ok, where the line gets drawn is the issue.
> 
> Different people have different ideas on what constitutes a lot of "isms", or at least how serious infraction of them are. Whilst we would all agree that certain terms and tropes would be unnacceptable, the agreement seperates as you get further down the scale. Also, whether or not firms should be sanctioned for such advertising or imagery will be similarly subjective. Fwiw, I think BD's use of those half naked punk women was pretty tacky. Should it be banned? Probably not. There'll be other people who think it's great. Same with "Growler". Many posters here got up in arms about it. Many other people couldn't care less and at least one woman _on this website_ found it "clever".
> 
> If everyone agreed where these boundaries should be drawn there'd be no need for complaints organisations, or at least every complaint made would be upheld/rejected. I assume equationgirl , that you have made a complaint to the ASA about "growler". What was their response?


I think Jim Davidson's quite clever. I also think lots of other things about him, too. None of them are good.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> What are you on about? Are you actually, seriously claiming not to know the answer to this question?


Are you? Because some people have argued that using misogyny is a 'genius marketing campaign' on this thread, so they are clearly saying it's ok to use misogyny in marketing.

So I am asking where the line is - how far do they go with their marketing strategies, because if it's ok to target women, what other protected characteristics are ripe for exploitation?


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 26, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i think you could probably argue that it's irrelevant whether the marketing was misogynistic or not, the point is is that the marketing is successful


I am starting to think that maybe different people disagree on what the point is?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

Poot said:


> I think Jim Davidson's quite clever. I also think lots of other things about him, too. None of them are good.



I agree with you. Others won't.


----------



## xenon (Jan 26, 2022)

I shouldn't read this at work. I wwanna distrobute a few pints of non BD beer down my neck...


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

No, I haven't yet made a complaint to the ASA Spymaster I have had a lot going on in my personal life hat I am having to deal with, and 'growler' was not part of an ad campaign per se, so they may respond it does not come under their purview.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

xenon said:


> I shouldn't read this at work. I wwanna distrobute a few pints of non BD beer down my neck...


Am not at work, do not drink, and still want something alcoholic to deal with this thread.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Are you? Because some people have argued that using misogyny is a 'genius marketing campaign' on this thread, so they are clearly saying it's ok to use misogyny in marketing.



They haven't. They've argued that what_* you*_ consider misogynistic, isn't misogynistic to the extent that it particularly concerns _them.  _

They've disagreed with your version of misogyny.


----------



## xenon (Jan 26, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i think you could probably argue that it's irrelevant whether the marketing was misogynistic or not, the point is is that the marketing is successful



Why would you argue that, given this isn't a thread about the effectiveness of marketing strategies. Have you got shared in BrewDog as well?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> They haven't. They've argued that what_* you*_ consider misogynistic, isn't misogynistic to the extent that it particularly concerns them.
> 
> They've disagreed with your version of misogyny.


Woman: that's misogynistic, I'm offended
Men: don't be silly dear, it's not misogynistic, it's just advertising

Black man : that advert is racist, I find it offensive
White man: don't be silly my dear chap, that's not racist it's just advertising

The people without the protected characteristics no longer get to tell those with the protected characteristics what is and isn't offensive to them.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

I'm not interested in getting BrewDog's adverts 'banned'. I don't particularly advocate that kind of top down intervention.

I am interested however in expressing my view that BrewDog are sexist dickwads and that those who defend them risk being tarred by the same brush.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Woman: that's misogynistic, I'm offended
> Men: don't be silly dear, it's not misogynistic, it's just advertising
> 
> Black man : that advert is racist, I find it offensive
> ...



You can be as offended as you like, by whatever you like. That doesn't mean that others can't consider that unreasonable.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

The other question that emerges for me from Spymaster's latest argument is that this position of "not everyone agrees, so do/say nothing" is basically just washing your hands of any personal responsibility towards society. It's very Thatcherite at its core if you ask me.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> You can be as offended as you like, by whatever you like. That doesn't mean that others can't consider that unreasonable.


Woman complains about misogyny.
Men: well that's an unreasonable position to take.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> The other question that emerges for me from Spymaster's latest argument is that this position of "not everyone agrees, so do/say nothing" is basically just washing your hands of any personal responsibility towards society. It's very Thatcherite at its core if you ask me.



Lol @ "latest argument". It's only changed now because you've upped your game a bit and actually put one together that makes a bit of sense. 

Again, nobody is saying do/say nothing. Just be aware that people will disagree with you.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Are you? Because some people have argued that using misogyny is a 'genius marketing campaign' on this thread, so they are clearly saying it's ok to use misogyny in marketing.
> 
> So I am asking where the line is - how far do they go with their marketing strategies, because if it's ok to target women, what other protected characteristics are ripe for exploitation?


You were asking if I and others think "anything goes in marketing so long as it's successful".

Well, of course it doesn't. What an idiotic question.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Lol @ "latest argument". It's only changed now because you've upped your game a bit and actually put one together that makes a bit of sense.
> 
> Again, nobody is saying do/say nothing. Just be aware that people will disagree with you.



I'm acutely aware that people disagree with me.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> You were asking if I and others think "anything goes in marketing so long as it's successful".
> 
> Well, of course it doesn't. What an idiotic question.


So misogyny is ok but all the other things I listed are not? Do explain why


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2022)

xenon said:


> given this isn't a thread about the effectiveness of marketing strategies.


You've not read the thread title then.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> *So misogyny is ok* but all the other things I listed are not? Do explain why







__





						Loading…
					





					www.urban75.net


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Woman complains about misogyny.
> Men: well that's an unreasonable position to take.



Anyone is _absolutely entitled_ to consider anyone else's position on anything unreasonable, regardless of their sex/gender.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Anyone is _absolutely entitled_ to consider anyone else's position on anything unreasonable regardless of their sex/gender.



"No, _your_ position is unreasonable" etc. ad infitum


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Anyone is _absolutely entitled_ to consider anyone else's position on anything unreasonable, regardless of their sex/gender.


You don't seem to think misogyny is unreasonable though


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 26, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i think you could probably argue that it's irrelevant whether the marketing was misogynistic or not, the point is is that the marketing is successful





teuchter said:


> You were asking if I and others think "anything goes in marketing so long as it's successful".
> 
> Well, of course it doesn't. What an idiotic question.


I think one of you needs to have a word with the other.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> You don't seem to think misogyny is unreasonable though



I just don't agree that everything_ you _consider to be misogyny, is misogyny; or IF it is, some of it is not the kind of misogyny that I care about.

We just draw the line in different places.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> not the kind of misogyny that I care about.


----------



## belboid (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I just don't agree that everything you consider to be misogyny, is misogyny; or IF it is, some of it is not the kind of misogyny that I care about.
> 
> We just draw the line in different places.


Funny how many men draw the line so far away from where women do, isn’t it? And both views are obviously equally well informed and fully aware of the implications of said placement.


----------



## belboid (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


>


Like Dominic Raab, he hates misogyny against men.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> I think one of you needs to have a word with the other.


I think you need new glasses.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


>



Qualified with that great big IF. 

"Growler" for example. IF you think that's misogynystic, I (along with many other men and women) don't care for your definition of the term.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I just don't agree that everything_ you _consider to be misogyny, is misogyny; or IF it is, some of it is not the kind of misogyny that I care about.
> 
> We just draw the line in different places.


Not the kind of misogyny you care about. Wow.

Please elaborate about the type of misogyny you do care about.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

belboid said:


> Like Dominic Raab, he hates misogyny against men.



I think you need to have another lie down, bellers.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 26, 2022)

This thread 🤦🏽


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Not the kind of misogyny you care about. Wow.
> 
> Please elaborate about the type of misogyny you do care about.



See post above yours.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

I mean, what could I possibly know about misogyny and it's continued impact on women in society. It's not like I have experienced it regularly, sometimes on a daily basis. But that's not the right kind of misogyny to give a shit about, apparently.

That's beyond arrogant, Spymaster.

I look forward to your upcoming lectures on the right types of disability discrimination, racism and homophobia to give a shit about too.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

No really, Spymaster, tell us what misogyny you care about.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I mean, what could I possibly know about misogyny and it's continued impact on women in society. It's not like I have experienced it regularly, sometimes on a daily basis. But that's not the right kind of misogyny to give a shit about, apparently.



You're opinions are your opinions. Why do they carry any more weight than those of other women who disagree with you? To think that they do is beyond arrogant.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> No really, Spymaster, tell us what misogyny you care about.



If you want to give some examples I'll let you know what I think.

Let's start with "growler". No.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

Not all women think the same way about perceived misogyny!  The Brewdog stuff - Trashy Blonde beer, Growler, etc. I couldn't give a fuck about.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> If you want to give some examples I'll let you know what I think.
> 
> Let's start with "growler". No.


How about the claims made about James Watt this week? 








						Brewdog chief James Watt accused of inappropriate behaviour
					

Former US workers at the brewing giant say James Watt's behaviour made female bartenders feel "uncomfortable" and "powerless".



					www.bbc.co.uk
				




And if some of that does count as the kind of bad misogyny that you do care about, could there perhaps be some connection between when Brewdog does bad misogyny and when it does good misogyny?


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 26, 2022)

I will say this thread has been fantastic in showing up the lengths of bad faith chicanery Spymaster and Magnus have been prepared to throw out simply to protect their precious ickle egos. Plus whatever is happening to teuchter, which is a whole other thing.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> How about the claims made about James Watt this week?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If half the stuff about JW is true, the bloke's an arsehole.

'Self-made millionaire in total dickhead shocker'!


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Not all women think the same way about perceived misogyny!  The Brewdog stuff - Trashy Blonde beer, Growler, etc. I couldn't give a fuck about.


I'm not saying all women think the same.


----------



## belboid (Jan 26, 2022)

He’s not a ‘self made millionaire’ he stole that surplus value (and ripped off muggins’ like dess)


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 26, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Plus whatever is happening to teuchter, which is a whole other thing.


I think that one might be a form of performance art?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I'm not saying all women think the same.



But you're right and ElizabethofYork is wrong, and me agreeing with Liz is misogynystic?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> But you're right and ElizabethofYork is wrong, and me agreeing with Liz is misogynystic?


I'm interested in the good misogyny you seem to think exists in the world.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 26, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> I think that one might be a form of performance art?


I was wondering if he'd been possessed by a horrible compulsion to try and play the role of a corporate Don Quixote in the age of the internet. 

"Have at thee, hordes of Urban75, you have besmirched my cherished love!" 
"Sir, that is a thread on an errant brewing firm."
"I emerge victorious, Sancho! The fiends are vanquished!"
"But sir, you shit the bed and everyone called you an idiot ..."
"Victorious!"


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I'm interested in the good misogyny you seem to think exists in the world.



I'm interested in why your version of misogyny trumps other womens.


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Not all women think the same way about perceived misogyny!  The Brewdog stuff - Trashy Blonde beer, Growler, etc. I couldn't give a fuck about.


How about this kind of stuff?


Mr Watt was witnessed by staff kissing an intoxicated customer on a roof terrace bar
Female bartenders were advised how to avoid unwelcome attention from Mr Watt
Managers would try to schedule certain female staff to be off to avoid Mr Watt's visits
One bartender said she felt "powerless" to prevent unwelcome attention from Mr Watt
Mr Watt, while on trips to his US bars, took women on late night private brewery tours, leaving staff feeling uncomfortable


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

editor said:


> How about this kind of stuff?
> 
> 
> Mr Watt was witnessed by staff kissing an intoxicated customer on a roof terrace bar
> ...


That's all shitty.  It happens to women in many, many workplaces.    
And of course it's misogynistic.


----------



## chilango (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> If half the stuff about JW is true, the bloke's an arsehole.
> 
> 'Self-made millionaire in total dickhead shocker'!



He's a successful arsehole though, which is what seems to count, amirite?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> If you want to give some examples I'll let you know what I think.
> 
> Let's start with "growler". No.


What if your wife said she saw harassment at work?
What if she was offended by a marketing campaign?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

chilango said:


> He's a successful arsehole though, which is what seems to count, amirite?



Some people would certainly consider it an accolade.

Others may admire his business success whilst lamenting his workplace malefactions.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I'm interested in why your version of misogyny trumps other womens.



Spymaster, earlier:





__





						Loading…
					





					64.media.tumblr.com


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

Well Spymaster ? You asked for examples, I have given you examples.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> What if your wife said she saw harassment at work?
> What if she was offended by a marketing campaign?



I'd think she was being completely reasonable and support her fully.

Are we going to talk about why your version of misogyny is more correct than hers and Liz's?


----------



## xenon (Jan 26, 2022)

teuchter said:


> You've not read the thread title then.



I posted on it on page 1. And yes, I’ve changed my mind since then.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 26, 2022)

Metal Malcolm said:


> My housemate went to their pub and brought home a little pamphlet thing they'd given him. It was the most infuriating aspirational bollocks i'd ever read.
> 
> "You're original, not like everyone else, so don't drink the same drinks as them, drink ours, cause we're, like, punky and shit, yeah?"
> 
> Fuck 'em.


As true today....


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 26, 2022)

I suppose that the question of... I think "standpoint epistemology" is the accepted name for it, but that feels really wanky, so I suppose you could call it a standpoint approach, or indeed a context, perspective or experience approach, is a big question and one that's hard to settle. It's one of the big questions animating the 100-page identity politics thread, and it comes up in a lot of other things, for instance the saga of Jeremy Corbyn and the Wrong Kind of Jews is also one where questions of standpoint and who does or doesn't get to speak for a particular perspective keeps coming up.
Like, of course you can't use a "hard" standpoint approach, cos, for instance, it's not possible to agree with equationgirl, Elizabeth and Daphne at the same time. But at the same time, trying to make a hard anti-standpoint argument, and always ignore the speakers' identity or experience, is obviously rubbish as well, we all draw on context in making judgements all the time and standpoint stuff is one part of that. I don't have a neat conclusion to this, I think it's just one of those things that's messy and complicated.
I suppose what baffles me about the Equity Punks Defence Squad argument here is that it seems to rely on a different kind of anti-context argument. If we see something ambiguous, like, say, a piece of marketing that could be offensively sexist or could be totally innocent (if anyone's still making that claim? Hard to keep track), we would usually rely on context to try and resolve the ambiguity: for instance, if the potentially offensive piece of marketing came from an institution with a track record of offensive arseholery, that would probably be enough to settle it for me in terms of not wanting to give them the benefit of the doubt. But it seems like everyone accepts that Brewdog does have that track record, but some people are unwilling to bear that context in mind when judging anything else they do? Seems odd to me.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

Spymaster you have basically said that if your wife raised the same complaints of misogyny on topics that I have raised complaints of (the overall behaviour of Brewdog) you'd back her to the hilt but everybody else who raises the same complaint is wrong.. You're not interested in debate, just being a contrarian


----------



## editor (Jan 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> That's all shitty.  It happens to women in many, many workplaces.
> And of course it's misogynistic.


Then fuck them, fuck giving them money for their products and fuck the endless whataboutery taking place on this thread.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> @soymaster you have basically said that if your wife raised the same complaints of misogyny on topics that I have raised complaints of (the overall behaviour of Brewdog) you'd back her to the hilt but everybody else who raises the same complaint is wrong.



Don't be fucking ridiculous, I've said nothing of the sort.  

I'd back my wife to the hilt because I know her to be a thoroughly balanced and measured woman, in whose judgement I have the utmost confidence. 

I do not hold your opinions in the same regard.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 26, 2022)

editor said:


> Then fuck them, fuck giving them money for their products and fuck the endless whataboutery taking place on this thread.


I'm pleased to say I've never given them a penny.  I don't drink beer!


----------



## teuchter (Jan 26, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> @soymaster



the meat free variant


----------



## nastyned (Jan 26, 2022)

belboid said:


> He’s not a ‘self made millionaire’ he stole that surplus value (and ripped off muggins’ like dess)


His parents are millionaires. And his dad helped out financially with Brewdog.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 26, 2022)

__





						It is everyone.
					

[CW: some discussion of harrassment and mental ill health]




					tinyletter.com


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 26, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> __
> 
> 
> 
> ...


James Watt is described in that blog post as ...a kind of craft beer Laurence Fox'.

Ouch.


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 27, 2022)

belboid said:


> Dickie is the actual brewer, Watt is just the front man (and the gob who knows how to get publicity).  When Dickie does speak, he claims that he/they basically invented modern IPA’s, with the pale malt, different yeast and kiwi hops.  Although he forgets that he spent eighteen months at Thornbridge where they did all of that first, but were nothing like as good at marketing it.



By which, presumably you mean ruined it. 
Its baffling that we actually have IPA (which we invented) and people are trying to sell us a godawful Americanisation of it, which makes it lagery because the yanks only really have that type of beer, but to make it "crafty" they've shoved a load of citra hops in so it basically tastes like grapefruity lager. 

It's not IPA at all really, it's It's own thing because they all taste pretty similar, whilst at the same time; nothing like IPA.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 27, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> By which, presumably you mean ruined it.
> Its baffling that we actually have IPA (which we invented) and people are trying to sell us a godawful Americanisation of it, which makes it lagery because the yanks only really have that type of beer, but to make it "crafty" they've shoved a load of citra hops in so it basically tastes like grapefruity lager.
> 
> It's not IPA at all really, it's It's own thing because they all taste pretty similar, whilst at the same time; nothing like IPA.


Here the American style are marketed as APA. (American Pale Ale) they're OK.


----------



## Santino (Jan 27, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Here the American style are marketed as APA. (American Pale Ale) they're OK.


Have you had your apology yet?


----------



## dessiato (Jan 27, 2022)

Santino said:


> Have you had your apology yet?


From who? No one has apologised to me. I doubt anyone will.


----------



## Santino (Jan 27, 2022)

dessiato said:


> The behaviour of Watt is appalling. There's no excuse for it. I shall be asking for "explanations" and, as an absolute minimum, apologies. There is no excuse for this behaviour. We all know better.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 27, 2022)

dessiato said:


> From who? No one has apologised to me. I doubt anyone will.


But you said you were going to ask for one in an earlier post? Has there been any apologies at all to the shareholders?

As Santino has shown, the post where you said you would ask, is above.


----------



## Santino (Jan 27, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> But you said you were going to ask for one in an earlier post? Has there been any apologies at all to the shareholders?
> 
> As Santino has shown, the post where you said you would ask, is above.


At least he's asked for them.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 27, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> But you said you were going to ask for one in an earlier post? Has there been any apologies at all to the shareholders?
> 
> As Santino has shown, the post where you said you would ask, is above.


Ah, I misunderstood the question.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 27, 2022)

Santino said:


> At least he's asked for them.


True. Not having a go.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 27, 2022)

We have no proof that dessiato has asked for apologies and he must be harangued until he provides it.


----------



## Santino (Jan 27, 2022)

How did you ask for them?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 27, 2022)

teuchter said:


> We have no proof that dessiato has asked for apologies and he must be harangued until he provides it.


Please go away.


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 27, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Here the American style are marketed as APA. (American Pale Ale) they're OK.


I've got the strange feeling I made this point on this thread way back, but its now at a billion pages of insults, so......

Could they call it "fruity lager" instead do you reckon?


----------



## dessiato (Jan 27, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> I've got the strange feeling I made this point on this thread way back, but its now at a billion pages of insults, so......
> 
> Could they call it "fruity lager" instead do you reckon?


I'm sorry I don't recall that. APA is relatively new here. It's not available in Galicia as far as I can tell. In Andalucía there was also Andalucían Pale Ale.

This type of beer is increasingly popular. But compared to Cruzcampo anything is an improvement.


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 27, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I'm sorry I don't recall that. APA is relatively new here. It's not available in Galicia as far as I can tell. In Andalucía there was also Andalucían Pale Ale.
> 
> This type of beer is increasingly popular. But compared to Cruzcampo anything is an improvement.


It might be, it might be many things but one thing it aint is IPA.


----------



## belboid (Jan 27, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> It might be, it might be many things but one thing it aint is IPA.


It is though.  That boat has long since sailed


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> By which, presumably you mean ruined it.
> Its baffling that we actually have IPA (which we invented) and people are trying to sell us a godawful Americanisation of it, which makes it lagery because the yanks only really have that type of beer, but to make it "crafty" they've shoved a load of citra hops in so it basically tastes like grapefruity lager.
> 
> It's not IPA at all really, it's It's own thing because they all taste pretty similar, whilst at the same time; nothing like IPA.


But folk buy it because they like and enjoy it. Punk is  just proud of £3 a pint in 'spoons for a fairly strong drink so I can see why it's popular. And I doubt those drinking it are much aware of the accusations against the company and even less so because they want to drink for misogynistic reasons like someone attempted to claim earlier.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But folk buy it because they like and enjoy it. Punk is  just proud of £3 a pint in 'spoons for a fairly strong drink so I can see why it's popular. And I doubt those drinking it are much aware of the accusations against the company and even less so because they want to drink for misogynistic reasons like someone attempted to claim earlier.


One, you don't speak for everyone drinking Punk IPA and two, you just can't know why they drink it.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> One, you don't speak for everyone drinking Punk IPA and two, you just can't know why they drink it.


Well given you don't drink it and presumably don't bother mixing with anyone that does I think my metric is somewhat stronger.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well given you don't drink it and presumably don't bother mixing with anyone that does I think my metric is somewhat stronger.



Did you poll everyone in Spoons for their reasons for drinking it and whether they were aware of the controversies behind the scenes?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Did you poll everyone in Spoons for their reasons for drinking it and whether they were aware of the controversies behind the scenes?


Did you poll everyone as to whether they thought 'Growler' was sexist and that they'd buy it on that basis? Jesus.


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 27, 2022)

belboid said:


> It is though.  That boat has long since sailed


It's not, its some weird yank reinvention of IPA to appeal to people who like lager and who have never drunk IPA. 

As much as they can be mildly irritating, I quite like the French attitude to food and drink - I can't see some new world producer of fizzy wine ever passing for Champagne (or even cremant) there. Why do we undervalue our own beermaking traditions so much?


----------



## dessiato (Jan 27, 2022)

It’s a very reasonable assumption that people drink Brewdog because they like it. I think it is reasonable to assume that those drinkers are not overly bothered by other aspects of the company.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> It's not, its some weird yank reinvention of IPA to appeal to people who like lager and who have never drunk IPA.


This is pure nonsense though. I love IPA. But that doesn't mean I'm somehow 'impure' if I enjoy Punk. It's fucking ludicrous. Proper snobbery stuff.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> This is pure nonsense though. I love IPA. But that doesn't mean I'm somehow 'impure' if I enjoy Punk. It's fucking ludicrous. Proper snobbery stuff.


Agreed. There’s quite a lot of different IPA and, although they’re not all pure IPA, there’s one for all palettes.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Agreed. There’s quite a lot of different IPA and, although they’re not all pure IPA, there’s one for all palettes.


Almost like if you're a true whisky lover it has to be single malt where as bourbon is as a bastardisation. Where as people tend to like both.


----------



## belboid (Jan 27, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> It's not, its some weird yank reinvention of IPA to appeal to people who like lager and who have never drunk IPA.
> 
> As much as they can be mildly irritating, I quite like the French attitude to food and drink - I can't see some new world producer of fizzy wine ever passing for Champagne (or even cremant) there. Why do we undervalue our own beermaking traditions so much?


There have been massive variations in IPA’s since they were first brewed.  Who gives a fuck?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well given you don't drink it and presumably don't bother mixing with anyone that does I think my metric is somewhat stronger.


I'll remember that next time you wade into a discussion on some aspect of being a woman. After all, you can't have an opinion on that topic if you're a woman, by your logic.

Also by your own logic you don't get to have an opinion on what is misogynistic or not, being a man.


----------



## dessiato (Jan 27, 2022)

belboid said:


> There have been massive variations in IPA’s since they were first brewed.  Who gives a fuck?


The thing is to drink what you like, isn’t it? Disregard what others think, that’s not important.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I'll remember that next time you wade into a discussion on some aspect of being a woman. After all, you can't have an opinion on that topic if you're a woman, by your logic.
> 
> Also by your own logic you don't get to have an opinion on what is misogynistic or not, being a man.


I've never said you can't have an opinion. Disagreement is a positive thing. It's healthy and informative. I've also never tried to get you banned or kicked off a thread for saying something I don't like.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I've never said you can't have an opinion. Disagreement is a positive thing. It's healthy and informative. I've also never tried to get you banned or kicked off a thread for saying something I don't like.


'something I don't like' was you trying something ill-advised on the Sarah Everard thread, iirc. And several months ago, if not almost a year.

Clearly you bear grudges, instead of apologising and trying to do better.

Fucks sake Magnus, get over yourself.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 'something I don't like' was you trying something ill-advised on the Sarah Everard thread, iirc. And several months ago, if not almost a year.
> 
> Clearly you bear grudges, instead of apologising and trying to do better.
> 
> Fucks sake Magnus, get over yourself.


On the Sarah Everard thread all I suggested was that maybe folk should self organise against incels like they do fascists. And all hell broke loose. 
I stand by that suggestion. The issue was that it was considered a violent suggestion by a man.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> On the Sarah Everard thread all I suggested was that maybe folk should self organise against incels like they do fascists. And all hell broke loose.
> I stand by that suggestion. The issue was that it was considered a violent suggestion by a man.


And yet you wonder why you got kicked off the thread.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> And yet you wonder why you got kicked off the thread.


Presumably because those kicking me disagree with self organisation.


----------



## killer b (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Presumably because those kicking me disagree with self organisation.


They self organised to kick you off


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

killer b said:


> They self organised to kick you off


They appealed to authority.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They appealed to authority.


How very dare we.

Look, this is not the thread for this discussion. But you spectacularly misjudged the thread, and whether it was appropriate to post, at a time of great grief and anger about the events that happened. Did you really think that telling a group of women to behave like incels was a good thing?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 27, 2022)

And the fact that you were kicked off the thread after that single post should tell you a lot.


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 27, 2022)

belboid said:


> There have been massive variations in IPA’s since they were first brewed.  Who gives a fuck?


Which is my point - we don't seem to give a fuck about our foods and drinks being bastardised, which is sad.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> On the Sarah Everard thread all I suggested was that maybe folk should self organise against incels like they do fascists. And all hell broke loose.
> I stand by that suggestion. The issue was that it was considered a violent suggestion by a man.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> How very dare we.
> 
> Look, this is not the thread for this discussion. But you spectacularly misjudged the thread, and whether it was appropriate to post, at a time of great grief and anger about the events that happened. Did you really think that telling a group of women to behave like incels was a good thing?


If this isn't the the thread for it (which it isn't) why do you keep bringing it up? 


equationgirl said:


> 'something I don't like' was you trying something ill-advised on the Sarah Everard thread, iirc. And several months ago, if not almost a year.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> On the Sarah Everard thread all I suggested was that maybe folk should self organise against incels like they do fascists. And all hell broke loose.
> I stand by that suggestion. The issue was that it was considered a violent suggestion by a man.


Sometimes letting these things lie is the better part of valour.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Sometimes letting these things lie is the better part of valour.


EG loves bringing it up at any opportunity which forces me into defending myself. It's against board rules to do this but I'm not a snide who reports everything as a strategy.


----------



## belboid (Jan 27, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> Which is my point - we don't seem to give a fuck about our foods and drinks being bastardised, which is sad.


You’ve completely missed the point.  There have been massive variations right from the start.


----------



## belboid (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> EG loves bringing it up at any opportunity which forces me into defending myself. It's against board rules to do this but I'm not a snide who reports everything as a strategy.


You can stop any time you like.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> EG loves bringing it up at any opportunity which forces me into defending myself. It's against board rules to do this but I'm not a snide who reports everything as a strategy.


You're not forced into anything. If you think the criticism unfair and likely to lead to being banned off the thread or a warning point why not stuck the thread on ignore for a few days and do something better.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> You're not forced into anything. If you think the criticism unfair and likely to lead to being banned off the thread or a warning point why not stuck the thread on ignore for a few days and do something better.


Or people could just stick to the topic instead of cross thread beef? Which is the rules.


----------



## killer b (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Or people could just stick to the topic instead of cross thread beef? Which is the rules.


You raised it you bellend


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

killer b said:


> You raised it you bellend


Post #4.723 it was raised by EG. You 'bellend'


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 27, 2022)

belboid said:


> You’ve completely missed the point.  There have been massive variations right from the start.


So? There are massive variations in ciders from the Herefordshire PGI (for example) but there is a tradition and they have a broadly local character. 

American IPAs have a broadly similar, non IPA esque character, but apparently we don't care enough about our beermaking traditions to give a shit. 


All blue cheeses are not Stilton.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

killer b said:


> You raised it you bellend



Any apology for your abusive dishonesty?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Did you poll everyone as to whether they thought 'Growler' was sexist and that they'd buy it on that basis? Jesus.



Oh, come on. You're not the only person who's drank in Spoons. How do you know what they think?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 27, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Oh, come on. You're not the only person who's drank in Spoons. How do you know what they think?



Well everyone else seems to think they do. But given I actually drink with folk who order pints of Punk perhaps I have some insight?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well everyone else seems to think they do. But given I actually drink with folk who order pints of Punk perhaps I have some insight?



Ah. Forgot you're the real deal and everyone else are phonies.

So none of your mates are aware of the situation, with BD, you reckon?


----------



## Funky_monks (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Well everyone else seems to think they do. But given I actually drink with folk who order pints of Punk perhaps I have some insight?


Wankers, you mean?

"Pint of Punk"

ffs


----------



## killer b (Jan 27, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Any apology for your abusive dishonesty?


This was you raising it, the post before.


Magnus McGinty said:


> I've also never tried to get you banned or kicked off a thread for saying something I don't like.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 27, 2022)

Hold up, Magnus are you actually trying to pull rank on what Brewdog drinkers in Wetherspoons think because you've happened to drink with some, as though you're the only person on this thread to have done so, and as though it has the slightest bit of relevance beyond the specific time and place you happened to be in a pub? That's hilarious. I look forward to your expert opinion on the likely outcome of the next general election based purely on what some voters you met once said to you. Hey you can even use the same Wetherspoons anecdote if you like.


----------



## Raheem (Jan 28, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> American IPAs have a broadly similar, non IPA esque character, but apparently we don't care enough about our beermaking traditions to give a shit.


I don't think this is surprising. A lot of people in the UK drink beer, and most of them won't know or care what the  brewing traditions behind different ales are. People drinking Brewdog will mostly just think they are drinking British beer.


----------



## JimW (Jan 28, 2022)

Agree with Funky_monks about the IPA thing, I get that it's a bit of a lost cause but why bother with a typology of beer if it's not going to broadly mean something you stick to?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jan 28, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Hold up, Magnus are you actually trying to pull rank on what Brewdog drinkers in Wetherspoons think because you've happened to drink with some, as though you're the only person on this thread to have done so, and as though it has the slightest bit of relevance beyond the specific time and place you happened to be in a pub? That's hilarious. I look forward to your expert opinion on the likely outcome of the next general election based purely on what some voters you met once said to you. Hey you can even use the same Wetherspoons anecdote if you like.


But isn't it true that most consumers buy stuff that they like, despite the questionable ethics of the company?   Do huge amounts of people boycott products made by Nestle or Coca Cola, for example?  

Some do, of course.  But not enough to make a difference.


----------



## fucthest8 (Jan 28, 2022)

(Changed my mind, took my own advice)


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 28, 2022)

Lets be honest the main selling point of Punk IPA was always its ABV.  It is with a lot of IPA's.  You simply get more bang for your buck and IPA's do it in a way that mask that the harsh alcohol taste that a lot of higher strength beers suffer from.

There is a big market for higher strength beers, just look at how Polish beers have taken over the fridges in tab shops.  Its not just Eastern European migrants and street drinkers who prefer them, loads of people do.

Now that the ABV in Punk IPA has been slashed (another clear sign all is not well with Brewdog's finances. Its a house of cards people, mark my words) it will be interesting to see whether it continues to remain popular.  It will take a while for a lot of people to notice as strangely their brilliant and incredible marketing hasn't really addressed this much.


----------



## chilango (Jan 28, 2022)

I've drunk pints of "Punk" in 'spoons. Many times.

Do I win?


----------



## chilango (Jan 28, 2022)

...and as far as abv goes there's ddh beers, imperial stouts etc. that really crank the % up to double your standard IPA. Nevermind the Belgian stuff that was around before the craft phenomenon.

There's also - and this was an appeal to me - plenty of craft pales at around the 3% mark that still pack a bit of punch flavour.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 28, 2022)

chilango said:


> ...and as far as abv goes there's ddh beers, imperial stouts etc. that really crank the % up to double your standard IPA. Nevermind the Belgian stuff that was around before the craft phenomenon.



Sure, but you rarely see that stuff on draught in pubs being served in pints.


----------



## chilango (Jan 28, 2022)

Teaboy said:


> Sure, but you rarely see that stuff on draught in pubs being served in pints.


That was always BrewDog's advantage


----------



## Louis MacNeice (Jan 28, 2022)

Teaboy said:


> Sure, but you rarely see that stuff on draught in pubs being served in pints.



True, but fortunately for me a couple round here do have la Chouffe on tap (8%)!

Cheers - Louis MacNeice


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 28, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> But folk buy it because they like and enjoy it. Punk is  just proud of £3 a pint in 'spoons for a fairly strong drink so I can see why it's popular. And I doubt those drinking it are much aware of the accusations against the company and even less so because they want to drink for misogynistic reasons like someone attempted to claim earlier.


Could you quote the post that said that people want to drink Punk IPA for misogynistic reasons?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 28, 2022)

This post appeared to be implying it. 



belboid said:


> Yours is the kind of argument you’d get from some bloke who claimed he went to Hooters ‘for the food’


----------



## JimW (Jan 28, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> This post appeared to be implying it.


Think that was a personal crack at dess who has posted something along those lines.


----------



## belboid (Jan 28, 2022)

which should be obvious to anyone from the quote marks.  But if someone is determined to interpret something in a perverse way….


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Jan 28, 2022)

It would have been obvious had I known the history, which I didn’t.


----------



## belboid (Jan 28, 2022)

it’s still a massive fucking leap and one you never bothered addressing to the person you thought made the implication.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 28, 2022)

belboid said:


> But if someone is determined to interpret something in a perverse way….



That would NEVER happen around here. Oh no!


----------



## belboid (Jan 28, 2022)

Ohh goodie, the whole circle jerk crew are in


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 28, 2022)

belboid said:


> Ohh goodie, the whole circle jerk crew are in


You know I can never resist clicking on a thread when I see your name come up, bellend. We all need a little comedy in our lives.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 28, 2022)

Huh, that's funny, because I get a sinking feeling whenever I see you've posted, dickhead.

(Let's not go down that route eh).


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 28, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Hold up, Magnus are you actually trying to pull rank on what Brewdog drinkers in Wetherspoons think because you've happened to drink with some, as though you're the only person on this thread to have done so, and as though it has the slightest bit of relevance beyond the specific time and place you happened to be in a pub? That's hilarious. I look forward to your expert opinion on the likely outcome of the next general election based purely on what some voters you met once said to you. Hey you can even use the same Wetherspoons anecdote if you like.


"I put a ballot box in my local Spoons and called it an exit poll"


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 28, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> Huh, that's funny, because I get a sinking feeling whenever I see you've posted, dickhead.
> 
> (Let's not go down that route eh).


Interesting. I haven’t a fucking clue who you are!


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 28, 2022)

And?


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 28, 2022)

Eh?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jan 28, 2022)

Like BD, reckon this thread has run out of steam or justification


----------



## belboid (Jan 28, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Like BD, reckon this thread has run out of steam or justification


I’m sure master watts will give us another reason to update it fairly soon


----------



## brogdale (Jan 28, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Interesting. I haven’t a fucking clue who you are!




When malevolent narcissistic wind ups run out of steam.
Classic.


----------



## Spymaster (Jan 28, 2022)

brogdale said:


> When malevolent narcissistic wind ups run out of steam.
> Classic.



Ohh goodie. The whole circle jerk crew are in.


----------



## brogdale (Jan 28, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Ohh goodie. The whole circle jerk crew are in.


If the cap...


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2022)

Thankfully there's people more interested in challenging Brewdog's misogyny and toxic workplace practices than exchanging petty arguments online.



And here's a union reaction to the documentary: 



> The most concerning allegations were those of a toxic workplace in which bullying and sexual harassment are the norm. Unfortunately, these issues are not unique to Brewdog. The craft beer industry presents itself as a fun, forward thinking place to work, however, issues of bullying and harassment are systemic in the industry.
> 
> In our own experience working in breweries we know workers are routinely forced to work in unsafe conditions, face intimidation and threats from management for speaking out. They often work long, unsociable hours on low pay, experience poor mental health as a result and the needs of those on the floor are always secondary to management’s desires for profit.











						BWU reaction to the BBC Brewdog documentary - Industrial Workers of the World (IWW)
					

BWU reaction to the BBC Brewdog documentary The documentary entitled ‘The Truth about BrewDog’, which aired on BBC Scotland on Monday 24th January, paints a picture of a company with two faces. This follows a score of articles about sexual…




					iww.org.uk


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 28, 2022)

I do think all this exposure has been pretty damaging, not for their bottom line right now specifically but because it changes what sort of response you get as a fanboy when you try bigging them up. The tone changes from advocacy to defence, and generally people are much less likely to start a conversation with "oh I love Brewdog, here's my arm tattoo" if they're having to then follow it up with apologism to a hostile audience. That's a serious setback to their techbro style company-cult business model.

Watts definitely has the power to stay in post given his position, but like with all those many wunderkind wannabe playboy rockstar scumbags before him the longer he does so the more he personally poisons the brand. And I don't think he can get out of that, because fundamentally he can't sue the BBC for reporting facts that have showcased him as a sleazy bully. I wouldn't be surprised to see him try to brazen it out followed by a public stepping back (which likely wouldn't actually be any such thing, but at least everyone might be spared his smug self-aggrandising marketing).

The best thing about all this mind is it's absolutely fucked their hopes of a strong IPO in 2022.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 28, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> I do think all this exposure has been pretty damaging, not for their bottom line right now specifically but because it changes what sort of response you get as a fanboy when you try bigging them up.



Have you actually ever spoken to or met any "fanboys" - to know what the response was and is?

Do they really exist in any number in the UK?


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 28, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Have you actually ever spoken to or met any "fanboys" - to know what the response was and is?
> 
> Do they really exist in any number in the UK?



Judging by the popularity of their bars I'd say they don't exist.  Say what you like about Brewdog bars but you can always get a seat, in fact you usually get your choice of seat.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 28, 2022)

I'm logically extending the result of it becoming known that the CEO of Brewdog is a scumbag presiding over a toxic workplace culture and its likely impact (hence the use of the word likely). And yes, quite obviously they do have UK fanboys.

JFC how have you been talking admiringly about their marketing model for 160 pages and not bothered to pay any attention to their blatant rip-off of Silicon Valley hype-and-cult methodology? Half the point of their Equity Punk project is to get people, quite literally, personally invested in the concept of their success. Their version of "move fast and break things" and physical demonstration of such in their advertising is so on the nose it's comical.

This is "new company 101' stuff for tech industries, I used to get explainer emails from Crowdfunder when we were doing the fundraiser for _A Normal Life_ on the need to convert early adopters into advocates, maintain hype and how to present your USP as somehow kicking against The Establishment. The thing Watts can legitimately take credit for is he realised brewing was ripe for that culty Spirited New Wave vs The Establishment bollocks.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 28, 2022)

Of course they have fanboys. A lot of places do: Spoons have "tickers" hoping to drink in them all, Nandos has.... Whatever the Hell Nandos has. BD took the concept and made profit from it: turn your obsession into shares, make profit, be "punk".


----------



## Chilli.s (Jan 28, 2022)

When I asked my younger pub going friends if they had been to the new brewdog bar they all said that there were plenty of other better bars

Ed to add.  They did all express concern over the sexism and workers rights issues


----------



## teuchter (Jan 28, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> I'm logically extending the result of it becoming known that the CEO of Brewdog is a scumbag presiding over a toxic workplace culture and its likely impact (hence the use of the word likely). And yes, quite obviously they do have UK fanboys.
> 
> JFC how have you been talking admiringly about their marketing model for 160 pages and not bothered to pay any attention to their blatant rip-off of Silicon Valley hype-and-cult methodology? Half the point of their Equity Punk project is to get people, quite literally, personally invested in the concept of their success. Their version of "move fast and break things" and physical demonstration of such in their advertising is so on the nose it's comical.
> 
> This is "new company 101' stuff for tech industries, I used to get explainer emails from Crowdfunder when we were doing the fundraiser for _A Normal Life_ on the need to convert early adopters into advocates, maintain hype and how to present your USP as somehow kicking against The Establishment. The thing Watts can legitimately take credit for is he realised brewing was ripe for that culty Spirited New Wave vs The Establishment bollocks.



Yeah, I get how it works. Certainly at the beginning, getting people "invested" not just financially was a big part of their strategy and no doubt having those people "advocating" for them was significant.  

But that was, what, 15 years ago now? They are now a big multinational operator, with their own brand bars in town centres and a big marketing budget. I don't think they need those advocates now; they operate much more like any old beer company. They get attention through their various stunts, which they can throw money at, and they are visible everywhere.

So, I don't think they really rely on what you call "fanboys". I don't think, in 2022, someone hearing from a Brewdog "equity punk" about this cool new beer company is how they come to buying their stuff. They walk into Tescos and it's there. Or there's a Brewdog bar in their city centre.

That's why I wondered if you had actually talked to any of these "fanboys" or were just making it up, or "logically extending" as you put it.

All this stuff might be harmful for them, but it seems more likely that it'll be someone looking at a 12 pack of Brewdog cans in Sainsburys, recalling vaguely or specifically that this company was subject to some kind of BBC expose, and then making a choice accordingly. If there is an alternative next to the Brewdog ones that is similarly appealing maybe they'll go for that. If the alternative is a range of dull Euro-lagers they might well decide they are going to stick with the Brewdog option.


----------



## Storm Fox (Jan 28, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> I'm logically extending the result of it becoming known that the CEO of Brewdog is a scumbag presiding over a toxic workplace culture and its likely impact (hence the use of the word likely). And yes, quite obviously they do have UK fanboys.
> 
> JFC how have you been talking admiringly about their marketing model for 160 pages and not bothered to pay any attention to their blatant rip-off of Silicon Valley hype-and-cult methodology? Half the point of their Equity Punk project is to get people, quite literally, personally invested in the concept of their success. Their version of "move fast and break things" and physical demonstration of such in their advertising is so on the nose it's comical.
> 
> This is "new company 101' stuff for tech industries, I used to get explainer emails from Crowdfunder when we were doing the fundraiser for _A Normal Life_ on the need to convert early adopters into advocates, maintain hype and how to present your USP as somehow kicking against The Establishment. The thing Watts can legitimately take credit for is he realised brewing was ripe for that culty Spirited New Wave vs The Establishment bollocks.


Very much this. See also Bitcoin Advocates*, but to be fair no-one is as out there as them.

Musk and Telsa are the go to example. Tesla Full Self Drive is and amazing bit of software, but it nowhere near ready to be released on the road, even on the latest revision. It will work well for a few minutes, then swerve about, randomly stop or drives in a bus lane. On the video I saw driving in the bus lane is the improvement, on the previous version it tried to drive up a dedicated tramway.

*Again though it's sexist language; Bitcoin Bros and Fanboys, it easy to miss, especially being and man, but must have a large sub-conscious effect on people.


----------



## editor (Jan 28, 2022)

Certainly seems to be some fanboys on this thread.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 28, 2022)

teuchter said:


> So, I don't think they really rely on what you call "fanboys". I don't think, in 2022, someone hearing from a Brewdog "equity punk" about this cool new beer company is how they come to buying their stuff. They walk into Tescos and it's there. Or there's a Brewdog bar in their city centre.


They absolutely do still rely on them particularly for expansion outside the UK (this was quite a large part of the BBC documentary) and one of their biggest selling points for the IPO is the stickiness of their brand — how loyal is your customer base, potential for growth etc. They are certainly attempting to transition beyond those roots into non-"independent" territory (part of what makes them shitheels is this was evidently always the plan, and they were always intending to betray everything they supposedly said and stood for). But ubiquity has to be justified by popularity, and without advocates claiming they're especially different and good, they're still just relative small fry up against much bigger and more powerful breweries. Which as I say, kind of fucks them when it comes to the position they're aiming for. 

And good thing too, frankly, as going back to the actual point of the thread, these kinds of projects are on the most toxic end of modern business culture and the more kickings they get the better.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 28, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> They absolutely do still rely on them particularly for expansion outside the UK (this was quite a large part of the BBC documentary) and one of their biggest selling points for the IPO is the stickiness of their brand — how loyal is your customer base, potential for growth etc. They are certainly attempting to transition beyond those roots into non-"independent" territory (part of what makes them shitheels is this was evidently always the plan, and they were always intending to betray everything they supposedly said and stood for). But ubiquity has to be justified by popularity, and without advocates claiming they're especially different and good, they're just small fry up against much bigger and more powerful breweries. Which as I say, kind of fucks them when it comes to the position they're aiming for.


Fair enough, I have no idea what they are doing outside of the UK. Nonetheless your statement about the kind of response a "fanboy" will get when talking them up does seem just to be speculation.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 28, 2022)

It's not about "will" get, it's about going from there being little to no risk of a hostile response beyond I dunno "they're nothing special" to a fair likelihood (particularly among people who are interested in beer) of "wait isn't that the company run by the abusive creep which ripped off loads of its investors and staff?" And then having to explain yourself.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 28, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> It's not about "will" get, it's about going from there being little to no risk of a hostile response beyond I dunno "they're nothing special" to a fair likelihood (particularly among people who are interested in beer) of "wait isn't that the company run by the abusive creep which ripped off loads of its investors and staff?" And then having to explain yourself.


Sure. That's your speculation, presumably based on a BBC documentary having greater reach than all the other controversies the company has been involved in since the outset.

Your initial comment suggested you had actually been observing these reactions in real life; that's what I was interested in. Because I don't actually have much idea of how many people out in the real world are that bothered or aware. And certainly not outside of the UK.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 28, 2022)

It's not speculation that the weight of public interventions and evidence (not just the BBC, public scandals are cumulative not isolated incidents) means a much larger number of people than was previously the case now know what the CEO and company is actually like, and most will remember it when conversations come up about the firm. Which means conversations about that firm will be much less likely, on balance, to be positive, thereby discouraging people from doing so. That's just a fact.

What you seem to be doing is mistaking my writing this as an understandable personal reaction, using the word "likely" specifically as a note that I'm _not describing a universal reaction_, as a suggestion it definitely _will_ be a universal one which I had directly observed in sum, which I of course did not at any point say and would be a physical impossibility.

Edit: Fucking hell I really hate having to spell this shit out for you, knowing that your main reason for writing it is you're either being wantonly or actually stupid, and in either case will continue to argue as though you have an actual point rather than just being engaged in tendentious ego-soothing. It doesn't "forward a debate" it just buries better posts among the slurry.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 28, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> It's not speculation that the weight of public interventions and evidence (not just the BBC, public scandals are cumulative not isolated incidents) means a much larger number of people than was previously the case now know what the CEO and company is actually like, and most will remember it when conversations come up about the firm. Which means conversations about that firm will be much less likely, on balance, to be positive, thereby discouraging people from doing so. That's just a fact.


It's not a "fact" that controversy will necessarily result in an overall negative tone of conversation _amongst the target market for the product_. That's been BD's whole thing for years, as documented on this thread.

This (ie the BBC documentary) might be different to previous events, but we don't know that.


----------



## steeplejack (Jan 28, 2022)

If only I had so much time on my hands that I could spend hours and hours every day being a pointless contrarian on an internet messageboard.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 28, 2022)

Why the fuck is there any debate still going on?  For fuck sake.


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 28, 2022)

If you actually think the exposure of the cult-of-personality CEO as an abusive creep, his company as having repeatedly ripped off its own customer base, his staff as having been fucked over by a toxic culture so bad that hundreds of staff past and present were publicly denouncing them about it etc isn't going to have a negative impact on the conversations that are had by people talking about Brewdog then you're an idiot. If you don't think that and you're just on the windup you're also an idiot. Either way, you're an idiot and I'm done here.


----------



## Teaboy (Jan 28, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Why the fuck is there any debate still going on?  For fuck sake.



Presumably because the alternative is actually doing some work and that is an unpleasant proposition on a Friday afternoon.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jan 28, 2022)

steeplejack said:


> If only I had so much time on my hands that I could spend hours and hours every day being a pointless contrarian on an internet messageboard.


Thing is, I've seen this before. On the Iraq war, on Brexit, on HS2, there will always be a single thread in a single message board, in a tiny nook of the Internet where a clump of "Side X" take attack against a siege of "Side Z". The real world happens around them – around us – and yet they keep on typing.


----------



## danny la rouge (Jan 28, 2022)

Teaboy said:


> Presumably because the alternative is actually doing some work and that is an unpleasant proposition on a Friday afternoon.


Well yes, but even though people are hiding behind a screen, why do they seem happy for other forum users to consider them utter cunts?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 28, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> Why the fuck is there any debate still going on?  For fuck sake.


Because, you know, heaven forbid people have opinions, especially about misogyny being bad


----------



## teuchter (Jan 28, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Because, you know, heaven forbid people have opinions, especially about misogyny being bad



FYI - although I don't see why it should be necessary to type this - I'm pretty sure that no-one is debating that misogyny is bad.


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 28, 2022)

Read the thread teuchter


----------



## baldrick (Jan 28, 2022)

teuchter said:


> FYI - although I don't see why it should be necessary to type this - I'm pretty sure that no-one is debating that misogyny is bad.


Have you read the thread? That very 'debate' was had the other day.


----------



## teuchter (Jan 28, 2022)

baldrick said:


> Have you read the thread? That very 'debate' was had the other day.


There has been some debate about whether or not certain things are misogyny, or spring from misogyny. At no point have I seen anyone trying to argue that misogyny is not a bad thing, or does not exist.


----------



## hitmouse (Jan 28, 2022)

Rob Ray said:


> This is "new company 101' stuff for tech industries, I used to get explainer emails from Crowdfunder when we were doing the fundraiser for _A Normal Life_ on the need to convert early adopters into advocates, maintain hype and how to present your USP as somehow kicking against The Establishment.


And were you ever able to find a way to market the story of Vassilis Palaiokostas as being somehow anti-establishment, or is that just an impossible challenge?
Anyway, for anyone who might be tempted to throw away any more time on teuchter's posts, worth remembering these two, which I feel may have had some kind of a subtext to them:


teuchter said:


> The thing with Brewdog is that they are pretending but in a way that makes it fairly obvious they are pretending, as a kind of wind-up...





teuchter said:


> Unfortunately my work is it somewhat futile when dealing with a group of people unable to get their head round the concept of "don't feed the troll".


----------



## Rob Ray (Jan 28, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> And were you ever able to find a way to market the story of Vassilis Palaiokostas as being somehow anti-establishment, or is that just an impossible challenge?


If the lack of reply to our offers of extracts and review copies to various outlets is anything to go by, the problem is that he and we are the wrong sort of anti-Establishment. If only our form of rebellion was flogging citrus beer and tiered shares ...


----------



## nastyned (Feb 1, 2022)

Just listened to a podcast with Charlotte Cook, who amongst other things is one of the Punks With Purpose people. They get on to the Brewdog's internal report around 52 min and she has a different view from the spin Brewdog put on it: "[Brewdog] don't perform particularly well in any of the metrics", "People afraid to speak out because of James' past behaviour".


----------



## scalyboy (Feb 1, 2022)

Oh gawd... saw this yesterday


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 1, 2022)

London Sustainable Restaurant - Punk Pasta
					

A sustainable egg free fresh pasta restaurant, located in central London, with dishes infused with energy and creativity. Available for takeaway and delivery.




					www.punkpasta.co.uk
				




Oh gawd.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 1, 2022)

Burn them!


----------



## teuchter (Feb 1, 2022)

Looks like a positive and thoughtful appropriation of the punk ethos. It can probably improve the image of punk in general if anything. What's the problem?

Most people think "punk" means smashing stuff up, getting drunk and eating meat. It would be good to change that perception, and I think this pasta company could do it.


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 1, 2022)

I was talking to* a friend on Friday night. (*Well, at might be more accurate). We were demolishing some whisky together. It turns out we both think that although in our youth we valued punk over disco, we now think that it was disco that had the deeper and more lasting influence in society.


----------



## klang (Feb 1, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I was talking to* a friend on Friday night. (*Well, at might be more accurate). We were demolishing some whisky together. It turns out we both think that although in our youth we valued punk over disco, we now think that it was disco that had the deeper and more lasting influence in society.


open up Disco Deserts then. You are welcome.


----------



## surreybrowncap (Feb 1, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I was talking to* a friend on Friday night. (*Well, at might be more accurate). We were demolishing some whisky together. It turns out we both think that although in our youth we valued punk over disco, we now think that it was disco that had the deeper and more lasting influence in society.


Blame it on the whisky….


----------



## Santino (Feb 1, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I was talking to* a friend on Friday night. (*Well, at might be more accurate). We were demolishing some whisky together. It turns out we both think that although in our youth we valued punk over disco, we now think that it was disco that had the deeper and more lasting influence in society.


The essence of punk is surely not caring what other people think - not caring if they enjoy the music you play, or the pizza you serve. And as such, it purports to deny our most fundamental existential structure as humans, which is caring about things.


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Looks like a positive and thoughtful appropriation of the punk ethos. It can probably improve the image of punk in general if anything. What's the problem?
> 
> Most people think "punk" means smashing stuff up, getting drunk and eating meat. It would be good to change that perception, and I think this pasta company could do it.


The punk ethos is primarily made up of beliefs such as *non-conformity, anti-authoritarianism, anti-corporatism*, a do-it-yourself ethic... Sounds like antivaxxers!


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 1, 2022)

Santino said:


> The essence of punk is surely not caring what other people think - not caring if they enjoy the music you play, or the pizza you serve. And as such, it purports to deny our most fundamental existential structure as humans, which is caring about things.


I’ll use that on the menus for Disco Pizza and Beer.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 1, 2022)

Funk Fagioli


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Looks like a positive and thoughtful appropriation of the punk ethos. It can probably improve the image of punk in general if anything. What's the problem?
> 
> Most people think "punk" means smashing stuff up, getting drunk and eating meat. It would be good to change that perception, and I think this pasta company could do it.



Totally. I've posted similar about Brewdog before. Punks actually owe them a debt of gratitude for rebranding their image from despised violent bellends with silly hairdos and shit music, to highly successful, global alcohol and buRgerz providers, loved by many.


----------



## klang (Feb 1, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> a do-it-yourself ethic... Sounds like antivaxxers!


I'd be delighted if the anti-vaxxers just jabbed themselves.


----------



## Chilli.s (Feb 1, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I was talking to* a friend on Friday night. (*Well, at might be more accurate). We were demolishing some whisky together. It turns out we both think that although in our youth we valued punk over disco, we now think that it was disco that had the deeper and more lasting influence in society.


Disco was far more mainstream and of course started with a larger bunch of aficionados hence its influence on society was always going to be felt further, but like pineapple on pizza, punk and its influence maintains cool through being minority and controversial


----------



## danny la rouge (Feb 1, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Disco was far more mainstream and of course started with a larger bunch of aficionados hence its influence on society was always going to be felt further, but like pineapple on pizza, punk and its influence maintains cool through being minority and controversial


Nah. Basically punk is what Guardian writers think was influencial.


----------



## Chilli.s (Feb 1, 2022)

Village disco in 1977 was dominated by disco records, punk was a floor clearer, even less popular than rock (which meant Quo)


----------



## teuchter (Feb 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Totally. I've posted similar about Brewdog before. Punks actually owe them a debt of gratitude for rebranding their image from despised violent bellends with silly hairdos and shit music, to highly successful, global alcohol and buRgerz providers, loved by many.


Recent events have unfortunately brought Brewdog closer to the original image of punk (arrogant toxic masculinity, disrespect for food safety regulations, etc). So that's why it's good that the pasta people are now picking up the baton.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 1, 2022)

Does punk pasta get greeted by a hail of spit as it comes out the kitchen? 

Asking for a friend.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 1, 2022)

I feel like there is a types of pasta / punk bands pun session here but I'm tired and was never really into punk so don't know many band names.


----------



## Santino (Feb 1, 2022)

Antipasti in the UK


----------



## Santino (Feb 1, 2022)

Actually I wish I'd gone with 'arancini' now.


----------



## scalyboy (Feb 1, 2022)

Santino said:


> Antipasti in the UK


----------



## T & P (Feb 1, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Does punk pasta get greeted by a hail of spit as it comes out the kitchen?
> 
> Asking for a friend.


Swastika-shaped fusilli.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 1, 2022)

Macaroni Mussolini


----------



## tonysingh (Feb 1, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Macaroni Mussolini



Pol Pot Penne


----------



## Santino (Feb 1, 2022)

Never Mind the Bolognese


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 1, 2022)

klang said:


> open up Disco Deserts then. You are welcome.


I think someone's beaten Danny to it:


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 1, 2022)

Rudimentary Penne


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 1, 2022)

Rage Against the Macaroni?


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 1, 2022)

The Wonderful and Frightening World of The Farfalle


----------



## Numbers (Feb 1, 2022)

Leninguini


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 1, 2022)

Numbers said:


> Leninguini



Stalinguini, surely?


----------



## Santino (Feb 1, 2022)

Could the thread title be change to 'Any old fucking pasta pun I can come up with'?


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 1, 2022)

Santino said:


> Could the thread title be change to 'Any old fucking pasta pun I can come up with'?



It'd make a better thread than the current one.


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 1, 2022)

Santino said:


> Could the thread title be change to 'Any old fucking pasta pun I can come up with'?


you're right, its pasta joke now


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 1, 2022)

I suppose Rip Rigatone And Panic would be more post-punk pasta?


----------



## Santino (Feb 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It'd make a better thread than the current one.


I agree - the sight of men denying or downplaying society's hatred of women is deeply unedifying. I'm glad you've come round to this point of view.


----------



## tonysingh (Feb 1, 2022)

Santino said:


> Could the thread title be change to 'Any old fucking pasta pun I can come up with'?



Can't you think of a fusili?


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 1, 2022)

Raviolent Femmes, Radiatori From Space


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 1, 2022)

Santino said:


> I agree - the sight of men denying or downplaying society's hatred of women is deeply unedifying.



The pesto's yet to come.


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Looks like a positive and thoughtful appropriation of the punk ethos. It can probably improve the image of punk in general if anything. What's the problem?
> 
> Most people think "punk" means smashing stuff up, getting drunk and eating meat. It would be good to change that perception, and I think this pasta company could do it.


🙄


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Looks like a positive and thoughtful appropriation of the punk ethos. It can probably improve the image of punk in general if anything. What's the problem?
> 
> Most people think "punk" means smashing stuff up, getting drunk and eating meat. It would be good to change that perception, and I think this pasta company could do it.



In the US, "punk" was often used as a derogatory term, before its music links.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 1, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> In the US, "punk" was often used as a derogatory term, before its music links.



Apparently used by William Shakespear to describe prostitutes in _Measure for Measure_, and _The Merry Wives of Windsor_.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 1, 2022)

So actually it was hip punk bands using rebel language to sell their stuff.


----------



## belboid (Feb 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Apparently used by William Shakespear to describe prostitutes in _Measure for Measure_, and _The Merry Wives of Windsor_.


The King has a ‘taffeta punk’ in All’s Well That Ends Well.


----------



## T & P (Feb 1, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> In the US, "punk" was often used as a derogatory term, before its music links.


----------



## JimW (Feb 1, 2022)

Wasn't disco out of gay clubs originally? Bit more subversive than the musings of Jimmy Pursey.


----------



## belboid (Feb 1, 2022)

JimW said:


> Wasn't disco out of gay clubs originally? Bit more subversive than the musings of Jimmy Pursey.


There was definitely more than a whiff of homophobia in the ‘Disco Sucks’ movement


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 1, 2022)

belboid said:


> There was definitely more than a whiff of homophobia in the ‘Disco Sucks’ movement



and racism...


----------



## brogdale (Feb 1, 2022)

ideal basis for some 'edgy' BD branding, surely?


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 1, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Rage Against the Macaroni?


Rage against the rigatoni/ravioli


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 1, 2022)

JimW said:


> Wasn't disco out of gay clubs originally? Bit more subversive than the musings of Jimmy Pursey.


I reckon the answer to this is to just listen to music that represents the dialectical synthesis of punk and disco, although I'm now stuck on whether the best example of this is New Order and Factory Records stuff, Chicago Wax Trax stuff, or yer 2000s electroclash like Peaches and Le Tigre and that. Or something else.


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 1, 2022)

belboid said:


> The King has a ‘taffeta punk’ in All’s Well That Ends Well.


Odds on there being a microbrewery somewhere that offers a Taffeta Punk IPA? Or would Brewdog just sue them?


----------



## friedaweed (Feb 1, 2022)

Pasta has no place in the punk genre it's just cultural appropriation like the Clash did with Reggae and wrong. Leave it with the Pastafarians where it belongs.


----------



## surreybrowncap (Feb 1, 2022)

Yeah stick to other foods - _Buns of Brixton....._


----------



## Raheem (Feb 1, 2022)

I Fought the Slaw


----------



## AverageJoe (Feb 1, 2022)

Lunch is burning


----------



## belboid (Feb 1, 2022)

Spanish Bombe 

48 Hours (Marinading)

Cheap Skate


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 1, 2022)

Protein (Cordon) Bleu


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 1, 2022)

Meat Meat Meat


----------



## Raheem (Feb 1, 2022)

Anchovy In the UK


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 2, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> In the US, "punk" was often used as a derogatory term, before its music links.



Punk. A weaker inmate forced into sexual slavery to a stronger one for protection from other sexually violent inmates; otherwise a compulsively annoying inmate.


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2022)

More backfiring  bullshit PR:



> BrewDog has been accused of having “lost the plot” over an environmental scheme in Scotland that could involve shooting animals dead to clear land for planting trees.
> 
> The beer company – which says it plants trees where it cannot reduce emissions – has bought thousands of acres of land in the Highlands for the new project.
> 
> ...





> Elisa Allen, from Peta, said: “BrewDog has lost the plot and will lose its customers if it thinks that blasting mountain hares and deer with shotguns is going to help restore lost forests, these species’ natural home.
> 
> “All it will mean is the slaughter of many of the beloved animals who live there.”











						BrewDog ‘lost the plot’ over tree-planting scheme that could involve shooting animals
					

‘It must remember that the planet is home to more than just humans,’ animal rights charity says




					www.independent.co.uk


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

BrewDog criticised for plans to cull wildlife at Lost Forest estate
					

The brewery's emission reduction plan aims to plant 1.1 million trees in the Highlands




					www.insider.co.uk
				




Looks to me like it's PETA that have lost the plot here, as the land management policies aren't determined by Brewdog and follow standard guidance.


----------



## NoXion (Feb 4, 2022)

editor said:


> More backfiring  bullshit PR:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Do deer have any large predators in Scotland, apart from humans? Because without predators, deer in numbers will eat and damage any saplings/young trees they can get to.

Sorry ed, but PETA are talking out of their arses on this one. They're also scummy hypocrites who care more about maintaining their profile in the media than not killing animals:



> Data collected by Virginia's state government shows that PETA's euthanasia rates for cats and dogs at the shelter is exceptionally higher than other shelters in the state.



Also their campaigns have more in common with BrewDog than anyone should be comfortable with: Has PETA Gone Too Far? Sexism, Pornography and Advertising


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> BrewDog criticised for plans to cull wildlife at Lost Forest estate
> 
> 
> The brewery's emission reduction plan aims to plant 1.1 million trees in the Highlands
> ...



Not just here, tbf!


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2022)

"BrewDog says it aims to plant 1.1 million native trees to the area in the Lost Forest project and is now waiting for a decision *on a grant from the Scottish government*."

Why can't they just pay for it themselves?


----------



## NoXion (Feb 4, 2022)

editor said:


> "BrewDog says it aims to plant 1.1 million native trees to the area in the Lost Forest project and is now waiting for a decision *on a grant from the Scottish government*."
> 
> Why can't they just pay for it themselves?



Because they're engaging in greenwashing?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

There's actually quite a good blog post here for anyone with a genuine interest in understanding what Brewdog are doing right and wrong with their forest plans.









						The state of the western Cairngorms (6) - BrewDog's "Lost Forest"(1) - parkswatchscotland
					

I have stretched the meaning of the “Cairngorms” in this series of posts, half of which have featured land west of the A9, and I am going to stretch it even further in two posts which take a look at Brewdog’s proposals to create a “Lost Forest” on the Kinrara estate which they bought earlier...



					parkswatchscotland.co.uk
				




Although there's certainly some element of greenwash involved, Brewdog aren't unique in purchasing land for greenwash purposes. As that article points out a neighbouring estate was bought up by the owner of Asos. It's quite important to view this all in the context of what the alternatives are, which for a long time in this part of Scotland have mostly been shooting estates. Shooting estates certainly don't do much for the long term sustainability of the landscape and maybe PETA should have a think about this too.

If large portions of the Highlands can be bought up and used for greenwashing purposes then I'm happier with that than the default alternative which is the maintenance of barren moorland for London toffs to go shooting on. The idea that it meaningfully offsets a company's carbon emissions is greenwash, but the benefit for the landscape (and people who want to enjoy it) can be real. If it's managed well, of course.


----------



## belboid (Feb 4, 2022)

Did ATOS also apply for a government grant for the trees after saying they were going to pay for them themselves?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

belboid said:


> Did ATOS also apply for a government grant for the trees after saying they were going to pay for them themselves?


I don't think Brewdog did say they were going to pay for them themselves. In their August 2021 report it says


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

The fact that they tricked a lot of you hot-heads into thinking that they would pay for it all themselves could be argued to be another example of their skilled and effective marketing.


----------



## Raheem (Feb 4, 2022)

They have a beer called Dead Pony Club. It's there is plain sight.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 4, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Also their campaigns have more in common with BrewDog than anyone should be comfortable with: Has PETA Gone Too Far? Sexism, Pornography and Advertising


i never realised before what a bunch of cunts PETA are.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

Would it be worth having a poll to see who is the worst out of Brewdog and PETA?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Would it be worth having a poll to see who is the worst out of Brewdog and PETA?


No.  What would be the point?!


----------



## belboid (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The fact that they tricked a lot of you hot-heads into thinking that they would pay for it all themselves could be argued to be another example of their skilled and effective marketing.


no its because they said so.  As you'd know if you weren't such a lazy twat, failing at being Mr Contrary


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> No.  What would be the point?!


It would be to generate constructive debate.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 4, 2022)

I reckon PETA would brew a better pint.

And whilst I have no way of proving this I have a strong suspicion that they would employ a cleaner in their pubs.  Something which is a complete anathema to Brewdog.  Gross places that they are.  Can always get a seat though.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 4, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> i never realised before what a bunch of cunts PETA are.



Really? 

PETA have always taken cuntistry to extreme levels. Referencing them anywhere should automatically prompt a Godwinesque withdrawal from any debate.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

belboid said:


> no its because they said so.


I'm not sure they did.


----------



## Teaboy (Feb 4, 2022)

There is actually a lot of similarities in how they approach communications.


----------



## belboid (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I'm not sure they did.


well, you're either dim with a rubbish memory (as it was discussed upthread) and lousy searching abilities (just google Brewdog trees) or you are simply dishonest.  I would accept you being both.

"Every multipack of Brewdog buys one tree"








						BrewDog
					

BrewDog




					www.brewdog.com


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

belboid said:


> well, you're either dim with a rubbish memory (as it was discussed upthread) and lousy searching abilities (just google Brewdog trees) or you are simply dishonest.  I would accept you being both.
> 
> "Every multipack of Brewdog buys one tree"
> 
> ...


The bit you've put in quotes is not a quote from the page you linked to.

Also the page you linked to has nothing to do with the scheme in the Cairngorms.

Did you accidentally post the wrong link?


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 4, 2022)

belboid said:


> well, you're either dim with a rubbish memory (as it was discussed upthread) and lousy searching abilities (just google Brewdog trees) or you are simply dishonest.  I would accept you being both.
> 
> "Every multipack of Brewdog buys one tree"
> 
> ...


You need to read what you’ve quoted there and then apologise to Teuchter.


----------



## belboid (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The bit you've put in quotes is not a quote from the page you linked to.
> 
> Also the page you linked to has nothing to do with the scheme in the Cairngorms.
> 
> Did you accidentally post the wrong link?


oh, sorry its say, in big fat letters 'plant [not buy] one tree'   What a massive difference. 

And, as discussed in the TV programme, it's a big fat lie.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 4, 2022)

belboid said:


> oh, sorry its say, in big fat letters 'plant [not buy] one tree'   What a massive difference.



 Not only does it not say what you’re pretending it does, but it also refers to a completely different project!


----------



## belboid (Feb 4, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Not only does it not say what you’re pretending it does, but it also refers to a completely different project!


It's the same project in a different place.   Here's a different article about it and their false claims BrewDog to plant one tree for every multi-pack sold in 2021


----------



## editor (Feb 4, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> No.  What would be the point?!


Anything to deflect criticism from the bunch of sexist, staff abusing, union-hating bosses at Brewdog, I guess.  It's quite sad seeing such tragic fanboyism trying to excuse  this bunch of cunts.


----------



## NoXion (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> There's actually quite a good blog post here for anyone with a genuine interest in understanding what Brewdog are doing right and wrong with their forest plans.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nobody on this thread said they were the only ones doing it. The problem is that BrewDog (and others) aren't putting their money where their mouth is. They're not only doing performative greenwashing that completely ignores their own industrial processes, they're also doing it at the taxpayer's expense. More than "some element" of greenwashing I'd say.


----------



## NoXion (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It would be to generate constructive debate.



You don't know what the fuck that even _is._


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 4, 2022)

editor said:


> "BrewDog says it aims to plant 1.1 million native trees to the area in the Lost Forest project and is now waiting for a decision *on a grant from the Scottish government*."
> 
> Why can't they just pay for it themselves?


All the big companies chase grants from Scottish Enterprise, which is the enterprise agency north of the border. There's no equivalent at a national level south of the border as far as I am aware.

Grants are supposed to encourage job creation and job growth but it's very much smoke and mirrors. Different regions within Scottish Enterprise will also compete internally against other, for example a big distiller threatened to close a massive bottling plant in the south west of Glasgow as it had been offered a better deal to transfer the bottling plant to Tayside. Of course, not everyone who works in the Glasgow area wants to or even can move to Tayside. The unions got involved.

Eventually something was worked out and jobs were saved in the Glasgow area.

So that bit of what they're doing, not to excuse them but they are only doing what other large corporations are doing.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

belboid said:


> It's the same project in a different place.


No it's not. It's a different project in a different place. You do need - urgently - to apologise for calling me dim and dishonest, or find some proof to support your claims.

edited to add - this below also needs to apologised for and/or retracted. Don't be urban's Boris Johnson.



belboid said:


> a lazy twat, failing at being Mr Contrary


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Nobody on this thread said they were the only ones doing it. The problem is that BrewDog (and others) aren't putting their money where their mouth is. They're not only doing performative greenwashing that completely ignores their own industrial processes, they're also doing it at the taxpayer's expense. More than "some element" of greenwashing I'd say.


Thanks for not taking the time to read my post, as usual.


----------



## belboid (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> No it's not. It's a different project in a different place. You do need - urgently - to apologise for calling me dim and dishonest, or find some proof to support your claims.
> 
> edited to add - this below also needs to apologised for and/or retracted. Don't be urban's Boris Johnson.


ohh fuck off you sad liar. You are really shit at this.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 4, 2022)

belboid said:


> It's the same project in a different place.   Here's a different article about it and their false claims BrewDog to plant one tree for every multi-pack sold in 2021



No it isn't. And again you've either not read (or misread) what you're linking to.  

Is this a new strategy of yours; post up any old bollocks and pretend it supports whatever guff you're spouting?


----------



## NoXion (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Thanks for not taking the time to read my post, as usual.



Maybe try not to include so much irrelevant dribble next time.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 4, 2022)

So the twats are getting taxpayers to pay for the trees they plant on the land they've borrowed money to buy as a tax dodge...and some sap customers are buying into the "green"?


----------



## tonysingh (Feb 4, 2022)

PETA are wankers too, albeit in a different way to BrewDog. Watching one attack the other is like watching two uncles you despise having a fight. Much like the tagline to Aliens v Predator, whoever wins, we lose. Fuck the pair of them.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 4, 2022)

brogdale said:


> So the twats are getting taxpayers to pay for the trees they plant on the land they've borrowed money to buy as a tax dodge...and some sap customers are buying into the "green"?



Genius innit? 🤣


----------



## killer b (Feb 4, 2022)

fairly sure a grant from the scottish government won't pay for the whole thing guys


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> No it's not. It's a different project in a different place. You do need - urgently - to apologise for calling me dim and dishonest, or find some proof to support your claims.
> 
> edited to add - this below also needs to apologised for and/or retracted. Don't be urban's Boris Johnson.


You're urban's Nadine Dorries. Only without her wits and charm


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 4, 2022)

killer b said:


> fairly sure a grant from the scottish government won't pay for the whole thing guys



No no no. It's definitely 100% straight out of the mouths of Scottish widows and orphans. And kittens.

This is Brewdog after all.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 4, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Genius innit? 🤣


Those who created the legislative environment or those exploiting it?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

brogdale said:


> So the twats are getting taxpayers to pay for the trees they plant on the land they've borrowed money to buy as a tax dodge...and some sap customers are buying into the "green"?


Even you fell for it!


----------



## brogdale (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Even you fell for it!


Eh?


----------



## teuchter (Feb 4, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Eh?


Actually my apologies, I got you mixed up with belboid because you both begin with B and post the same kind of thing.

It was belboid who fell for it.


----------



## belboid (Feb 4, 2022)

killer b said:


> fairly sure a grant from the scottish government won't pay for the whole thing guys


The point is they’re not going to pay for it all, as they very strongly implied (at the very least).  And getting us to pay for their tax dodge is scummy AF.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 4, 2022)

belboid said:


> The point is they’re not going to pay for it all, as they very strongly implied (at the very least).  And getting us to pay for their tax dodge is scummy AF.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Actually my apologies, I got you mixed up with belboid because you both begin with B and post the same kind of thing.
> 
> It was belboid who fell for it.


Apologies accepted, though the passive aggressive stuff isn't necessary or appreciated.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 4, 2022)

killer b said:


> fairly sure a grant from the scottish government won't pay for the whole thing guys


It would not. It would be a maximum of 40 to 50% (iirc) of the total amount of eligible costs, and not every cost is considered eligible. Brewdog would also have to make sure that they were not breaching state aid funding limits, as that is a whole world of pain if you do


----------



## Funky_monks (Feb 5, 2022)

teuchter said:


> BrewDog criticised for plans to cull wildlife at Lost Forest estate
> 
> 
> The brewery's emission reduction plan aims to plant 1.1 million trees in the Highlands
> ...


Imagine planting a crop and not wanting it to be destroyed......


----------



## nastyned (Feb 7, 2022)

Annoyingly paywalled: BrewDog accountant sacked ‘after revealing father’s cancer’


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 7, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Annoyingly paywalled: BrewDog accountant sacked ‘after revealing father’s cancer’


Formatting's a bit fucked, but is this it?




__





						The Times and The Sunday Times e-paper
					

The Times and The Sunday Times e-paper




					epaper.thetimes.co.uk
				





> After spending her first day sampling an array of craft beers at BrewDog’s flagship bar in Aberdeen, Janine Molineux felt like she had finally found the “most amazing job in the world”. She saw the self-styled “punk” brewery as a far cry from any company she had ever worked for and could not wait to join its “rock’n’roll” finance team and work under James Watt and Martin Dickie, the co-founders. But as Molineux settled into BrewDog’s head office in Ellon, Aberdeenshire, on her first day in November 2017, she claims she was issued with a stark warning: “If you see James Watt walk down those stairs, don’t make eye contact with him.” BrewDog has been mired in controversy after dozens of staff signed an open letter in June last year alleging a “culture of fear” and “toxic attitudes towards junior staff” at the company. Last month former employees told the BBC’s Disclosure programme that Watt abused his power in the workplace and behaved inappropriately with female employees and customers. The BBC made no allegations of criminal behaviour by Watt, 39, against women. He has denied wrongdoing or inappropriate behaviour. Molineux, 40, said she was sacked by BrewDog’s boss in January 2018, a day after telling him her father had terminal cancer. Following the publication of the last year’s open letter, she shared her experience with Dickie, who “profusely” apologised for the way she was “treated and exited by Brewdog”, adding that it was “not close to the standards we talk about and set ourselves”. The accountant said she told Watt about her father’s diagnosis in a replyall to an email he had sent which she felt was directed at her performance in a monthly sales meeting, in which she was berated after BrewDog failed to meet forecasts. She claims that the meeting was the “lowest point” in her professional life. She left it in tears after Watt said she had put the forecasts together and asked her a series of “random” questions. Her manager later told her: “That’s just James,” she said. Watt followed up the meeting with a group email a few days later, which suggested the company was more concerned with an employee’s performance on a “bad day” rather than a “good day”. She replied, informing him of her father’s diagnosis, and demonstrating her love for the company by attaching a photo of her celebrating the beer’s launch in Australia. She claims that Watt replied: “I hope your dad is OK.” Her contract was terminated the next day. She said the company “reluctantly” paid her threemonth notice period in March 2018 after she threatened legal action, leaving her without income for two months. Her father died in June 2018. She said: “James Watt is vile. He had zero empathy. If I knew someone [was] having a bit of a bad time and their dad was dying of cancer, I wouldn’t fire them.” A spokesman for BrewDog said: “Ms Molineux was on a fixed-term contract which was brought to an end early, a decision taken by her line manager due to performance issues, totally independent of our CEO, as emails and other records show. She was paid her full contractual entitlement on leaving.”



Looks like the Scottish S*n's also picked up on it, but it's the Sun so fuck linking to them.


----------



## editor (Feb 7, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Formatting's a bit fucked, but is this it?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a filthy, disgusting company.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 7, 2022)

They are despicable. But, I am not surprised by this, it is in keeping with the way other employees have been treated. 

James Watt is the problem, he's the root cause of all of the cultural issues the company has.


----------



## Serge Forward (Feb 7, 2022)

danny la rouge said:


> I was talking to* a friend on Friday night. (*Well, at might be more accurate). We were demolishing some whisky together. It turns out we both think that although in our youth we valued punk over disco, we now think that it was disco that had the deeper and more lasting influence in society.


I see what you mean.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 7, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Annoyingly paywalled: BrewDog accountant sacked ‘after revealing father’s cancer’


Rather a disingenuous headline!  It makes it sound as though she was sacked _because_ of her father's cancer, rather than being sacked for incompetent forecasting.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 7, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Rather a disingenuous headline!  It makes it sound as though she was sacked _because_ of her father's cancer, rather than being sacked for incompetent forecasting.


One, she was one a team of accountants, she was not solely responsible for the forecasting. And two, if it was sales forecasting in particular, why are the accountants being held responsible for sales team responsibilities? 

Funny how performance issues suddenly appear when there's an abhorrent actual reason for dismissing someone.


----------



## killer b (Feb 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> One, she was one a team of accountants, she was not solely responsible for the forecasting. And two, if it was sales forecasting in particular, why are the accountants being held responsible for sales team responsibilities?
> 
> Funny how performance issues suddenly appear when there's an abhorrent actual reason for dismissing someone.


Hang on, are you saying they did sack her because her dad had cancer? Seems unlikely really. 

Sounds like they'd decided to sack her, she gave her dad's cancer diagnosis as mitigation, but they sacked her anyway. Which is still brutal, but they are fucks so there is is. Just not actually such fucks that they'd sack someone because a family member was dying, which would be really weird as well as bad.


----------



## Santino (Feb 7, 2022)

dessiato said:


> The behaviour of Watt is appalling. There's no excuse for it. I shall be asking for "explanations" and, as an absolute minimum, apologies. There is no excuse for this behaviour. We all know better.


Any update on this?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> One, she was one a team of accountants, she was not solely responsible for the forecasting. And two, if it was sales forecasting in particular, why are the accountants being held responsible for sales team responsibilities?
> 
> Funny how performance issues suddenly appear when there's an abhorrent actual reason for dismissing someone.


Oh, they're bastards.  But she wasn't sacked because her dad had cancer!  As I said, that's a disingenuous headline. 

(And of course accountants/financial planners are responsible for accurate forecasting!)


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Oh, they're bastards.  But she wasn't sacked because her dad had cancer!  As I said, that's a disingenuous headline.
> 
> (And of course accountants/financial planners are responsible for accurate forecasting!)



Certainly the one who compiled the forecasts. Apparently that was her.


----------



## Storm Fox (Feb 7, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Oh, they're bastards.  But she wasn't sacked because her dad had cancer!  As I said, that's a disingenuous headline.
> 
> (And of course accountants/financial planners are responsible for accurate forecasting!)


Whatever the situation here regarding her father, I would image that is very difficult to do accurate forecasting in a accounts role in any company that is so sales and marketing orientated and sales and marketing are feeding you bullshit figures. 

In companies I have worked for it is never the sales team who are are fault it either 'the product is not good enough' or 'the economy is wrong' but do well and the sales team are amazing.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 7, 2022)

Financial planning and forecasting is the responsibility of the finance/accounting team.

Sales forecasting is the responsibility of the sales team.

Likewise I have been responsible for forecasting the spend profile of patent portfolios. Whilst I gave that information to the accountants so it could be included in the financial forecasting, they were not responsible for producing the figures because it required specialist knowledge their team did not have.


----------



## Storm Fox (Feb 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Financial planning and forecasting is the responsibility of the finance/accounting team.
> 
> Sales forecasting is the responsibility of the sales team.
> 
> Likewise I have been responsible for forecasting the spend profile of patent portfolios. Whilst I gave that information to the accountants so it could be included in the financial forecasting, they were not responsible for producing the figures because it required specialist knowledge their team did not have.


OK thanks for clarifying  , for my support and testing roles I normally have more to do with sales and their normally over optimistic forecasts and I have few dealings with accounts and planning.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 7, 2022)

Also, as you have pointed out the sales forecast can be overinflated Storm Fox so I daresay she wouldn't be the first accountant to take one look at the figures and say 'um, aren't these a bit on the high side?' and for managers above her to kick off about it.

She always wouldn't be the first person to be pushed out of a team for not being a yes person or just going along with whatever James wanted.

The disingenuous part is them claiming performance issues.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Also, as you have pointed out the sales forecast can be overinflated Storm Fox so I daresay she wouldn't be the first accountant to take one look at the figures and say 'um, aren't these a bit on the high side?' and for managers above her to kick off about it.
> 
> She always wouldn't be the first person to be pushed out of a team for not being a yes person or just going along with whatever James wanted.
> 
> The disingenuous part is them claiming performance issues.


So nothing to do with her dad having cancer.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 7, 2022)

It's entirely appropriate and totally useful that we all offer our opinions on the specifics of the case and the tasks that the employee concerned should or should not have been carrying out, based on what we can read in a C&P'd extract from an article in the Sun or the Times.


----------



## belboid (Feb 7, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Oh, they're bastards.  But she wasn't sacked because her dad had cancer!  As I said, that's a disingenuous headline.


If she was sacked because of (previously unmentioned) incompetence and said incompetence was caused by stress from her dads cancer, then yes they did sack her because of it. Of course there is no evidence that she was actually incompetent, just a comment from Watt. And as it was only her _second month_ in the job, the idea that she was responsible for the failure to hit targets is risible.

Sounds exactly like she was sacked because Watt thought she was going to be too stressed.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Also, as you have pointed out the sales forecast can be overinflated Storm Fox so I daresay she wouldn't be the first accountant to take one look at the figures and say 'um, aren't these a bit on the high side?' and for managers above her to kick off about it.



I think you have this the wrong way around.

The way it reads to me is that she compiled a financial forecast which was then not met by the sales performance. Now it could be that sales underperformed, or it could be that her forecasting was incompetent, which seems to be what she's been blamed for. 

What we DO know is that she isn't denying that her performance was sub-standard. Her complaint is about the way Watt treated her in the meeting and subsequently.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 7, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> So nothing to do with her dad having cancer.


No, you don't know that. And to be honest, if she thinks it was because of that, she's best placed to know. Brewdog is not going to come out and say 'yeah, we let her go because her dad had cancer and that meant her mind wasn't on the job all the time'. Performance issues is the standard catch-all in this kind of situation, because it's easier to blame the employee for not fitting in or being productive than admit the company culture prioritises being an arsehole.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> And to be honest, if she thinks it was because of that, she's best placed to know. Brewdog is not going to come out and say 'yeah, we let her go because her dad had cancer and that meant her mind wasn't on the job all the time'



SHE _isn't_ saying that though.

As Killer b said, she's just saying that she was fired after she responded to the email with her mitigation for her performance (her dad's cancer), which was ignored.

She doesn't suggest anywhere in that article that she was sacked _because_ of her father's cancer. You and others are imputing that.


----------



## xenon (Feb 7, 2022)

You're never gonna know exactly what work she carried out or how well. We do know Watt is a total prick though, so on balance still, fuck BrewDog.


----------



## editor (Feb 7, 2022)

The absolute fucking state of people here defending Brewdog and their anti-union, shitty, toxic workplace practices.

It's like tuning into the Daily Mail comments at times.


----------



## killer b (Feb 7, 2022)

I forgot, this thread is 100% insane.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

xenon said:


> You're never gonna know exactly what work she carried out or how well.



That doesn't matter though, we can just make it up!

As long as it's anti-BD it's unassailable, no matter how fabricated, and anything else is Daily Mail-esque


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 7, 2022)

killer b said:


> I forgot, this thread is 100% insane.


Well, maybe not 100%...


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 7, 2022)

editor said:


> The absolute fucking state of people here defending Brewdog and their anti-union, shitty, toxic workplace practices.
> 
> It's like tuning into the Daily Mail comments at times.


Pointing out that the headline about her being sacked because her dad had cancer was disingenuous,  is NOT defending anything.  

The employee herself didn't claim that.


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 7, 2022)

editor said:


> The absolute fucking state of people here defending Brewdog and their anti-union, shitty, toxic workplace practices.
> 
> It's like tuning into the Daily Mail comments at times.


----------



## belboid (Feb 7, 2022)

She was sacked after two months.


ElizabethofYork said:


> Pointing out that the headline about her being sacked because her dad had cancer was disingenuous,  is NOT defending anything.
> 
> The employee herself didn't claim that.


Except you seem to be wrong.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> She was sacked after two months.
> 
> Except you seem to be wrong.


Am I?  In what way?


----------



## belboid (Feb 7, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Am I?  In what way?


In the way I said in 4938


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> She was sacked after two months.



This is another one of your bonkers non-sequiturs, isn't it?


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> In the way I said in 4938



Yep!


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 7, 2022)

Anyone fancy having a go at defending this bit? "She said the company “reluctantly” paid her threemonth notice period in March 2018 after she threatened legal action, leaving her without income for two months."


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> In the way I said in 4938


Oh, your suppositions.  Hardly proof that I'm wrong!  😁


----------



## belboid (Feb 7, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Oh, your suppositions.  Hardly proof that I'm wrong!  😁


Your claim that she was sacked for incompetent forecasting is wrong though, isn’t it? Because she’ll have been _reporting_ on someone else’s forecast.  In fact the very first person to mention incompetent forecasting was…. you! Making up an excuse on behalf of the boss.  

Also, if it was just poor forecasting, why wait a week? And then do it the day after being informed of a serious family illness.  Just a coincidence you think? You’re bloody naive if you do.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> Your claim that she was sacked for incompetent forecasting is wrong though, isn’t it? Because she’ll have been _reporting_ on someone else’s forecast.  In fact the very first person to mention incompetent forecasting was…. you! Making up an excuse on behalf of the boss.
> 
> Also, if it was just poor forecasting, why wait a week? And then do it the day after being informed of a serious family illness.  Just a coincidence you think? You’re bloody naive if you do.



Fucking hell. Go to bed, Bellers.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 7, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Anyone fancy having a go at defending this bit? "She said the company “reluctantly” paid her threemonth notice period in March 2018 after she threatened legal action, leaving her without income for two months."


So it appears she was hired on a contract with a three month notice period (to be fair to Brewdog that's above the legal minimum) so when they terminated her contract (whether a fixed term or not) she is legally entitled to being paid her notice period (provided that Payment In Lieu Of Notice is in the contract). This payment is subject to income tax and nI deductions.

The fact that they tried to avoid paying it is in keeping with their shitty behaviour towards their employees.


----------



## xenon (Feb 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> That doesn't matter though, we can just make it up!
> 
> As long as it's anti-BD it's unassailable, no matter how fabricated, and anything else is Daily Mail-esque



Nah fuck 'em. "“not close to the standards we talk about and set ourselves”.  Funny, these things keep happening though eh. "that's just James." Man's clearly a grade A tosser and I'm inclined to believe the reports of the work culture there.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> So it appears she was hired on a contract with a three month notice period (to be fair to Brewdog that's above the legal minimum) so when they terminated her contract (whether a fixed term or not) she is legally entitled to being paid her notice period (provided that Payment In Lieu Of Notice is in the contract). This payment is subject to income tax and nI deductions.
> 
> The fact that they tried to avoid paying it is in keeping with their shitty behaviour towards their employees.



Possibly. Or she could have been within a 3 month probationary period and they were under no obligation to pay it.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Possibly. Or she could have been within a 3 month probationary period and they were under no obligation to pay it.


In which case they wouldn't have paid her, would they. Honestly.

You really think Brewdog paid her something she wasn't contractually entitled to? Seriously?


----------



## xenon (Feb 7, 2022)

Paywall free version for anyone else who can't read the weird Epaper one.




__





						archive.ph
					





					archive.ph


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> In which case they wouldn't have paid her, would they. Honestly.



Seriously? Have you honestly never known someone to be paid off if they caused enough nuisance? 

It's perfectly possible. The article quoted doesn't give enough information either way.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

It also refers to her as working "on a contract" a couple of times. It's possible that that refers to a permanant employment contract, but also possible that she was a contractor rather than a permanent employee. That would also affect the firm's payout obligations.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Seriously? Have you honestly never known someone to be paid off if they caused enough nuisance?
> 
> It's perfectly possible. The article quoted doesn't give enough information either way.


She hired a lawyer to get the notice period money.

A lawyer would not have taken her case if it was without foundation.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> She hired a lawyer to get the notice period money.
> 
> A lawyer would not have taken her case if it was without foundation.



This is a reasonable point.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is a reasonable point.


Are you feeling alright, Spy?????


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Are you feeling alright, Spy?????



Knackered. Bed time.


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 8, 2022)

A spokesperson for BrewDog said: 

"Ms Molyneux was on a fixed term contract which was bought to an end early, a decision taken by her line manger due to performance issues, totally independent of our CEO, as emails and other records show.

"At no point did he “scream” in this meeting – this allegation is utterly false as others in the meeting have confirmed. She was paid her full contractual entitlement on leaving.


----------



## editor (Feb 8, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> A spokesperson for BrewDog said:
> 
> "Ms Molyneux was on a fixed term contract which was bought to an end early, a decision taken by her line manger due to performance issues, totally independent of our CEO, as emails and other records show.
> 
> "At no point did he “scream” in this meeting – this allegation is utterly false as others in the meeting have confirmed. She was paid her full contractual entitlement on leaving.


Oh well if that's what Brewdog say - you know, the company with a truly horrendous reputation for bullying, sexism and toxic workplace conditions -  then it must be true!


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 8, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> A spokesperson for BrewDog said:
> 
> "Ms Molyneux was on a fixed term contract which was bought to an end early, a decision taken by her line manger due to performance issues, totally independent of our CEO, as emails and other records show.
> 
> "At no point did he “scream” in this meeting – this allegation is utterly false as others in the meeting have confirmed. She was paid her full contractual entitlement on leaving.


You would do yourself more favours if you read more of this thread. This company cannot be trusted to tell the time of day.


----------



## MickiQ (Feb 8, 2022)

Chilli.s said:


> Village disco in 1977 was dominated by disco records, punk was a floor clearer, even less popular than rock (which meant Quo)


Don't go dissing Status Quo


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 8, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> You would do yourself more favours if you read more of this thread. This company cannot be trusted to tell the time of day.


I am making no comment on the veracity  or not of what they are saying. Merely reporting what was reported in the press.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 8, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I am making no comment on the veracity  or not of what they are saying. Merely reporting what was reported in the press.


Merely Mon derriere.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 8, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Merely Mon derriere.



This is the name of BD's next IPA.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 8, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is the name of BD's next IPA.


No, it's not punk enough for them.


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 8, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> No, it's not punk enough for them.


How about Mischief Brew? there's already a punk band. Cant be more punk than that surely?





__





						Mischief Brew - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## two sheds (Feb 8, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> You would do yourself more favours if you read more of this thread. This company cannot be trusted to tell the time of day.


"He DIDN'T scream did he? DID HE? I didn't hear him scream, so you didn't hear him scream, either.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 8, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Don't go dissing Status Quo


A mate worships quo and I didn't believe him when he told me that "Pictures of Matchstickmen" was by them . It just seemed so far from what I thought Quo did.


----------



## MickiQ (Feb 8, 2022)

two sheds said:


> A mate worships quo and I didn't believe him when he told me that "Pictures of Matchstickmen" was by them . It just seemed so far from what I thought Quo did.


A much underated band


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 8, 2022)

two sheds said:


> A mate worships quo and I didn't believe him when he told me that "Pictures of Matchstickmen" was by them . It just seemed so far from what I thought Quo did.


Bless.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 8, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Bless.




song of my youf that one is. Would you have thought that was Status Quo? 

Eta: My avocadoes are doing well by the way, surviving winter quite nicely .


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Feb 8, 2022)

Always had a soft spot for Status Quo.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 8, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Always had a soft spot for Status Quo.



well I can see that NOW I just never got to see that video then.


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 8, 2022)

Let's not talk about "In the army" or whatever that dross was 😲


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Let's not talk about "In the army" or whatever that dross was 😲



or 'marguerita time'?


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 8, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> A spokesperson for BrewDog said:
> 
> "Ms Molyneux was on a fixed term contract which was bought to an end early, a decision taken by her line manger due to performance issues, totally independent of our CEO, as emails and other records show.
> 
> "At no point did he “scream” in this meeting – this allegation is utterly false as others in the meeting have confirmed. She was paid her full contractual entitlement on leaving.


Please tell me that you're at least getting a decent rate from BrewDog for posting here.


----------



## AverageJoe (Feb 8, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Don't go dissing Status Quo


Whatever you want _shrugs_


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 8, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> How about Mischief Brew? there's already a punk band. Cant be more punk than that surely?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


As it happens, that's the second time I've seen someone bring up Mischief Brew today, that doesn't happen too often. And the main founding member of Mischief Brew died a few years back, so I suppose he wouldn't be able to object to having his legacy tarnished by the stuff.


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 8, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> Whatever you want _shrugs_


Shit, I was sure that was by Slade. If the main Slade song is actually by Status Quo these days, then what songs are still by Slade? ETA: And I always thought Paper Plane was by MIA as well.


----------



## Serge Forward (Feb 8, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> A spokesperson for BrewDog said:
> 
> "Ms Molyneux was on a fixed term contract which was bought to an end early, a decision taken by her line manger due to performance issues, totally independent of our CEO, as emails and other records show.
> 
> "At no point did he “scream” in this meeting – this allegation is utterly false as others in the meeting have confirmed. She was paid her full contractual entitlement on leaving.


Thanks for that James


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 8, 2022)

There's also this article from the Daily Record, following on from the persistent staring accusation in the BBC documentary:









						Brewdog founder says he was not staring at staff but trying to 'improve service'
					

The Scottish beer firm boss was criticised in a BBC documentary which claimed he acted inappropriately towards workers.




					www.dailyrecord.co.uk
				




Please note the rebuttal from James Watt - 'i wasn't staring, I was thinking whilst observing bar staff working'. I feel insulted he couldn't be bothered to be more creative with his excuses.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Let's not talk about "In the army" or whatever that dross was 😲



The army turned up at my school and played that song to convince children to join the army lol


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 8, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> or 'marguerita time'?



What you’re proposing.


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 9, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Please tell me that you're at least getting a decent rate from BrewDog for posting here.


It was germane information regarding the issue being discussed. 

I'm nor really a BrewDog fan, apart from Hazy Jane,


----------



## friedaweed (Feb 9, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> It was germane information regarding the issue being discussed.
> 
> I'm nor really a BrewDog fan, apart from Hazy Jane


Stolen from Nick Drake's mispelt Hazey Jane. A song about a sharp toothed weasel. Nick Drake is an anagram of Drink Eack which in Gaelic means Starey Cunt. 
You're being brainwashed by his subliminal advertising messages. Put down the can.


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 9, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Stolen from Nick Drake's mispelt Hazey Jane. A song about a sharp toothed weasel. Nick Drake is an anagram of Drink Eack which in Gaelic means Starey Cunt.
> You're being brainwashed by his subliminal advertising messages. Put down the can.


whereas Urban Dictionary says...  

Hazy Jane​When a girl is receiving yet another facial, but the man’s Instrument is just emitting weak puffs of dust at this point.
“Eesh, I slathered Babs so many times last night that I ended on a Hazy Jane”

doubtlessly proving once more that Brewdog are even more despicable than before!


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 9, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> whereas Urban Dictionary says...
> 
> Hazy Jane​When a girl is receiving yet another facial, but the man’s Instrument is just emitting weak puffs of dust at this point.
> “Eesh, I slathered Babs so many times last night that I ended on a Hazy Jane”
> ...


In my day that was called "potato water"


----------



## friedaweed (Feb 9, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> whereas Urban Dictionary says...
> 
> Hazy Jane​When a girl is receiving yet another facial, but the man’s Instrument is just emitting weak puffs of dust at this point.
> “Eesh, I slathered Babs so many times last night that I ended on a Hazy Jane”
> ...


The dirteh bastards. What will they think of next...a Frottage Framboise


----------



## NoXion (Feb 9, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> The dirteh bastards. What will they think of next...a Frottage Framboise



I estimate that 95% of all sexual acts described on UrbanDictionary were made up by the submitter.


----------



## stockwelljonny (Feb 9, 2022)

Private Eye having a go in last weeks edition


----------



## hash tag (Feb 12, 2022)

I've just discovered that a once decent, local independent freehouse is now a brewdog shithole 😡


----------



## spitfire (Feb 12, 2022)

hash tag said:


> I've just discovered that a once decent, local independent freehouse is now a brewdog shithole 😡



Yes they just took over the Birdcage on Columbia Road, Hackney recently as well.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 12, 2022)

hash tag said:


> I've just discovered that a once decent, local independent freehouse is now a brewdog shithole 😡


I am sorry for your loss


----------



## hash tag (Feb 13, 2022)

Sorry, but going off on a slight tangent. I mentioned somewhere else, it would appear that all pubs these days are part of one chain or another.....round here Greene king, Mitchells & Butler, Youngs and now
Brew Dog. There is the odd Harveys establishment floating around. It is a tragic loss.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 13, 2022)

I borrowed the BrewDog book from the library yesterday purely for this thread. I’ve leafed through it and it has already confirmed my prejudices. They are prize dickheads.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I borrowed the BrewDog book from the library yesterday purely for this thread. I’ve leafed through it and it has already confirmed my prejudices. They are prize dickheads.


There's a book????


----------



## Raheem (Feb 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> There's a book????


If you're starting a religion, you need a book.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 13, 2022)

Raheem said:


> If you're starting a religion, you need a book.


That is true. I think you meant 'cult' instead of 'relugions' though.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> There's a book????


Aye, Business For Punks:  Breaking All The Rules The Brewdog Way
(Can’t find if this includes the law from a quick skim)


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> That is true. I think you meant 'cult' instead of 'relugions' though.


I think you need to remove an l and add an n and a s


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I think you need to remove an l and add an n and a s


I think I cannot type.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I think I cannot type.


I read that as ‘I think what I cannot type’!


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 13, 2022)

So Orang Utan tell us more about their book. What are the highlights so far?


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> There's a book????


Oh yeah, I think I've seen the BrewDog book:







equationgirl said:


> I think I cannot type.


As Descartes famously said...


----------



## Puddy_Tat (Feb 13, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> As Descartes famously said...



but don't put descartes before de horse...


----------



## Raheem (Feb 13, 2022)

Puddy_Tat said:


> but don't put descartes before de horse...


In for a René, in for a pound.


----------



## nastyned (Feb 13, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Aye, Business For Punks:  Breaking All The Rules The Brewdog Way
> (Can’t find if this includes the law from a quick skim)


I'd like to read that. Purely to see if he mentions as one of his business tips the importance of having multi-millionaire parents.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> So Orang Utan tell us more about their book. What are the highlights so far?


Sorry, have been busy all day. I’ll dip into it after me tea and get back to you


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 14, 2022)

A thread.


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 14, 2022)

NoXion said:


> I estimate that 95% of all sexual acts described on UrbanDictionary were made up by the submitter.


I think you might be on to something there...

Private eye​When you are xxxxing your girl from behind and pull out before blowing your xxxx. You then take aim xxxxxing in her eye as she looks back at you wondering why you don't want to give her a xxxxx pie.
Dude#1:. How come your gf is squinting?
Dude#2: I have here the private eye last night.


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 14, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I disagree. For example coloured people bad but people of colour good. It’s basically the same words in a different order.


poc much aulder than i'd thought - this from 1878, which i found by chance (irishman 12/10/1878)


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 14, 2022)

1) Brewdog are launching a cola???

2) DaphneM was it really necessary to post a graphic sexual act as part of your post?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 14, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Aye, Business For Punks:  Breaking All The Rules The Brewdog Way
> (Can’t find if this includes the law from a quick skim)


the master criminal always makes one fatal error and theirs was publishing details of all their law-breaking in a mass-market paperback


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 14, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 1) Brewdog are launching a cola???
> 
> 2) DaphneM was it really necessary to post a graphic sexual act as part of your post?


i have edited it in case in causes offence, it was kind of the point tho.


----------



## xenon (Feb 14, 2022)

Is it half term already?


----------



## Pickman's model (Feb 14, 2022)

xenon said:


> Is it half term already?


yes


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 14, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i have edited it in case in causes offence, it was kind of the point tho.


The point you were trying to make was already covered by your statement agreeing most urban dictionary entries are made up. 

Editing it just makes it look like you made up the entry for Private Eye.


----------



## Serge Forward (Feb 14, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Editing it just makes it look like you made up the entry for Private Eye.


It also occurred to me that DaphneM had made that one up.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 14, 2022)

Not everything is made up on the urban dictionary, and that's a TobyJug fact. 
boat happy​a hysterical condition that can arise from cramped conditions on a boat. this causes such a severe panic attack that it can put fellow passengers in danger. in these circumstances, it is legal for the captain to shoot and incapacitate the boat happy person to prevent further injuries and death.
angie started freaking out on the liferaft. she got boat happy and nearly capsized the whole vessel, so captain ashcroft had to shoot her in the face.


----------



## MickiQ (Feb 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Not everything is made up on the urban dictionary, and that's a TobyJug fact.
> boat happy​a hysterical condition that can arise from cramped conditions on a boat. this causes such a severe panic attack that it can put fellow passengers in danger. in these circumstances, it is legal for the captain to shoot and incapacitate the boat happy person to prevent further injuries and death.
> angie started freaking out on the liferaft. she got boat happy and nearly capsized the whole vessel, so captain ashcroft had to shoot her in the face.


Not totally convinced that the Urban Dictionary is a recognised legal standard


----------



## nastyned (Feb 14, 2022)

Response from James Watt to the documentary: 









						BrewDog’s Watt lodging official complaint about BBC documentary
					

Scottish brewer and operator BrewDog co-founder James Watt is set to launch an official complaint with the BBC and regulator Ofcom for “dozens of inaccuracies and false claims” aired in a documentary about the business.




					www.morningadvertiser.co.uk
				




Note he's now putting in a complaint, not taking legal action.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 14, 2022)

MickiQ said:


> Not totally convinced that the Urban Dictionary is a recognised legal standard


Pretty sure it comes under the purview of marine law


----------



## NoXion (Feb 14, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 1) Brewdog are launching a cola???
> 
> 2) DaphneM was it really necessary to post a graphic sexual act as part of your post?



1) Odd move by BD. Isn't there even more competition in the soft drinks market? I wonder what they're really up to...

2) Daphne is a shit troll. This kind of thing should be expected, given their previous "contributions" to the thread.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Feb 14, 2022)

NoXion said:


> 1) Odd move by BD. Isn't there even more competition in the soft drinks market? I wonder what they're really up to...



Maybe it's a cunning move to distract the Urban heat off their plucky little upstart corporate shitheadery onto some real Premier League corporate shitheads.


----------



## DaphneM (Feb 14, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> The point you were trying to make was already covered by your statement agreeing most urban dictionary entries are made up.
> 
> Editing it just makes it look like you made up the entry for Private Eye.


google it if you want to


----------



## Serge Forward (Feb 14, 2022)

Why would anyone want to Google what you submitted to Urban Dictionary, especially since you've already dumped that shit in this thread for all to see?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 14, 2022)

I’m guessing they’re saying they didn’t make it up.


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 14, 2022)

You don't need to google it, just click on the 'private eye' link in the shit post, and see it was added to the UD 'by mafiaMike July 01, 2018'.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 14, 2022)

cupid_stunt said:


> Not everything is made up on the urban dictionary, and that's a TobyJug fact.
> boat happy​a hysterical condition that can arise from cramped conditions on a boat. this causes such a severe panic attack that it can put fellow passengers in danger. in these circumstances, it is legal for the captain to shoot and incapacitate the boat happy person to prevent further injuries and death.
> angie started freaking out on the liferaft. she got boat happy and nearly capsized the whole vessel, so captain ashcroft had to shoot her in the face.


I think I wrote that!


----------



## cupid_stunt (Feb 14, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> I think I wrote that!



You did!


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 14, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> It also occurred to me that DaphneM had made that one up.


And they would have got away with it, if it wasn't for those pesky urbanites


----------



## Serge Forward (Feb 14, 2022)

Is Daphne M in reality the creepy janitor?


----------



## krtek a houby (Feb 14, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> Is Daphne M in reality the creepy janitor?



Lot of sweeping under the carpet to be done at BD


----------



## surreybrowncap (Feb 14, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I think you might be on to something there...
> 
> Private eye​When you are xxxxing your girl from behind and pull out before blowing your xxxx. You then take aim xxxxxing in her eye as she looks back at you wondering why you don't want to give her a xxxxx pie.
> Dude#1:. How come your gf is squinting?
> Dude#2: I have here the private eye last night.


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 14, 2022)

I love the twists and turns of this thread.


----------



## friedaweed (Feb 14, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> I love the twists and turns of this thread.


Like a turd on a log flume


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 14, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Like a turd on a log flume


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 23, 2022)




----------



## teuchter (Feb 23, 2022)

Can Dr Martens and Brewdog keep their brands intact as they float on the stock market?
					

British brands Dr Martens and Brewdog plan to trade on alternative credentials at the stock market. While aggressive expansion might threaten their countercultural cachet, DTC channels, sustainability and fervent brand advocacy can help them stay punk.




					www.thedrum.com
				




Interesting article here about the two main things to have come out of the punk movement: Dr Martens and Brewdog.

I couldn't help but notice that it quotes a female punk who thinks Brewdog is fine.



> Jackson suggests consumers don’t mind. “I’m still drinking it, and I haven’t been a punk for a very long time,” she says. “The biggest struggle for brands is getting your head above the parapet and being noticed. If you’re on to something, stick with it, rather than trying to water it down.”



Reinforces my impression that what people here on urban think isn't a very good indication of what people out in society think - let alone punks, although I've no doubt that there are lots of people here who will happily tell a female punk that what she thinks is "wrong", because she isn't a grumpy middle aged man who counts as a "proper punk" simply because he can remember the 1970s. In any case it does seem to confirm that Brewdog are on the whole nailing it with their marketing strategy.


----------



## Yossarian (Feb 23, 2022)

teuchter said:


> it quotes a female punk who thinks Brewdog is fine.



A marketing exec who says she's not a punk is a punk?

_Vanella Jackson is chief executive officer at Hall & Partners, a strategic brand consultancy owned by Omnicom .... "I haven’t been a punk for a very long time,” she says._


----------



## editor (Feb 23, 2022)

Updated doc on tonight


----------



## editor (Feb 23, 2022)

Brewdog as a case study in crisis management:



> The company was seen as a dynamic disrupter to the sterile and “uncool” beer market and has been embraced by thousands as the pint of choice. BrewDog has never shied away from controversy.  Spats with regulators, risqué advertising and even accusations of transphobia were just a few key moments that marked its rapid growth in 2010. Yet, at precisely 09:29 PM (GMT) in June 2021, the brewer faced a reality check on Twitter as an open letter was published attacking the company that bred a ‘_culture of fear_’ through the ‘_harassing, assaulting, belittling, insulting or gaslighting_’ of staff. The claim signed by 145 former and current staff. The company reacted – James Watt apologized and vowed to ‘listen, learn and act’ from the complaint.
> 
> But just as the company thought the PR storm had ended, the BBC aired its documentary ‘The Truth About BrewDog’ in mid-January, which not only re-examined previous allegations but also claimed that the company flouted U.S. Federal law by misleading Treasury officials and James Watt himself was accused of inappropriate behavior toward female staff – claims he denies.











						Crisis management – A B2B PR guide to help a company through a brewing crisis - The Level Pitcher
					

In today’s immediate digital comms environment, companies have very little time to react to a sudden PR crisis before public opinion steps in



					www.iba-international.com


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 23, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> A marketing exec who says she's not a punk is a punk?
> 
> _Vanella Jackson is chief executive officer at Hall & Partners, a strategic brand consultancy owned by Omnicom .... "I haven’t been a punk for a very long time,” she says._


And why is that strategic brand consultancy owned by a covid variant?


----------



## editor (Feb 23, 2022)

Great to see the workers getting organised in the face of all the gaslighting from Brewdog









						Complaints platform set up for BrewDog employees
					

Punks With Purpose - behind last year's open letter - have launched the site to collate current and former worker's issues




					www.insider.co.uk
				




And how's this for a creepy headline?!









						Brewdog founder says he was not staring at staff but trying to 'improve service'
					

The Scottish beer firm boss was criticised in a BBC documentary which claimed he acted inappropriately towards workers.




					www.dailyrecord.co.uk


----------



## Yossarian (Feb 23, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> And why is that strategic brand consultancy owned by a covid variant?



"Our business is all about helping you choose the brand name that's right for your business," said Jackson, CEO of the Coronavirus Nigel Farage Dogshit strategic brand consultancy.


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 23, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> And why is that strategic brand consultancy owned by a covid variant?


In the strategic brand consultancy game you don't choose your clients, they choose you; and just like a game of cards, sometimes you're Delta dud hand


----------



## teuchter (Feb 23, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> A marketing exec who says she's not a punk is a punk?
> 
> _Vanella Jackson is chief executive officer at Hall & Partners, a strategic brand consultancy owned by Omnicom .... "I haven’t been a punk for a very long time,” she says._


She's saying she's only been a punk for a short while, perhaps the past couple of years or so. I wouldn't be surprised if she was drawn into punk culture by Brewdog marketing and products. And I predicted that grumpy middle aged men on here will say "she's not a punk".


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## Yossarian (Feb 24, 2022)

teuchter said:


> She's saying she's only been a punk for a short while, perhaps the past couple of years or so. I wouldn't be surprised if she was drawn into punk culture by Brewdog marketing and products. And I predicted that grumpy middle aged men on here will say "she's not a punk".



_Though she hasn’t owned a pair of Docs since her gig-going days, Jackson says consumers “don't really care” about the stock market, but that they will notice if the business changes direction._

So she stopped going to gigs, got rid of her Docs, became a marketing chief executive, then was drawn into punk culture by a brand of beer? Interesting trajectory her life has taken.


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## two sheds (Feb 24, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> A marketing exec who says she's not a punk is a punk?
> 
> _Vanella Jackson is chief executive officer at Hall & Partners, a strategic brand consultancy owned by Omnicom .... "I haven’t been a punk for a very long time,” she says._


Now I'm confused. She says she's not "been a punk for a very long time"? How is that saying that she's only been a punk for a short while, the past couple of years?


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## keybored (Feb 24, 2022)

Punk really is dead.









						Want Dr Marten’s? Here’s why we don't sell Doc's anymore.
					

In the summer of 2019 we received an email informing us that Dr Martens were closing our account as  “We no longer feel the Dr Martens brand sits comfortably alongside your offering and the other brands that you sell”  Dr Martens had decided that their customer base was 18 to 25 years old and we...




					agmeek.co.uk


----------



## teuchter (Feb 24, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> _Though she hasn’t owned a pair of Docs since her gig-going days, Jackson says consumers “don't really care” about the stock market, but that they will notice if the business changes direction._
> 
> So she stopped going to gigs, got rid of her Docs, became a marketing chief executive, then was drawn into punk culture by a brand of beer? Interesting trajectory her life has taken.


It just shows how effective Brewdog marketing is.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 24, 2022)

teuchter said:


> She's saying she's only been a punk for a short while, perhaps the past couple of years or so. I wouldn't be surprised if she was drawn into punk culture by Brewdog marketing and products. And I predicted that grumpy middle aged men on here will say "she's not a punk".


I realized I was asking the wrong person:

Now I'm confused. She says she's not "been a punk for a very long time". How is that saying that she's only been a punk for a short while, the past couple of years?


----------



## DaveCinzano (Feb 24, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Now I'm confused. She says she's not "been a punk for a very long time"? How is that saying that she's only been a punk for a short while, the past couple of years?


We are all shamen on a spiritual quest. And we travel on this journey using the energy of the life force.


----------



## Dystopiary (Feb 24, 2022)

She is Shrodinger's punk.


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## Orang Utan (Feb 24, 2022)

Dr Martens is a baffling success. The ugliest shoes in the world innit. I wouldn’t characterise them as punk either as they were/are worn by a number of other subcultures


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## two sheds (Feb 24, 2022)

A mate gave me his Doc Martens in oooo 1990s they must have lasted me for 15 years. Good boots they were, although I never realized I was a punk


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## belboid (Feb 24, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Dr Martens is a baffling success. The ugliest shoes in the world innit. I wouldn’t characterise them as punk either as they were/are worn by a number of other subcultures


Quite. I'd associate them with skinheads (of the sixties, seventies _and _eighties varieties) more than punk. Tho they were punk, they're the ubiquitous 'rebel' brand.

The article was actually somewhat interesting.  It's clear Templeman was an ex-punk, rather than a recent punk. The fact that it describes Brewdog's punkness as "substantially weaker than the bootmaker’s" and their marketing as "astroturf", well, it's makes it odd that anyone would claim the piece was supportive of Brewdog's practises


----------



## hitmouse (Feb 24, 2022)

Yossarian said:


> "Our business is all about helping you choose the brand name that's right for your business," said Jackson, CEO of the Coronavirus Nigel Farage Dogshit strategic brand consultancy.


Before adding "I still like bacon sandwiches, I haven't been a vegan for a very long time."


----------



## editor (Feb 24, 2022)

So James Watt invested half a million quid in Heineken shares and invested millions in offshore hedge funds  That's pretty punk rock,

And after watching  that documentary I've learnt what an absolute sleazeball he is,  and how he makes women feel uncomfortable. Yuk.


----------



## cybershot (Feb 24, 2022)

keybored said:


> Punk really is dead.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


But. They still (or have again since that message) started selling dr martens. 🤷‍♂️


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 24, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It just shows how effective Brewdog marketing is.



I think this is accepted by everyone now, even if grudgingly so by those who pretend to hate them on here.

It’s totally undeniable.


----------



## salem (Feb 24, 2022)

No one is denying their success. We get it, just think it's shit is all. Not sure where the supposed confusion comes from.

Farage was a successful marketer, Trump was a successful marketer. No one denying that - the argument is that overall they're shit.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 24, 2022)

salem said:


> No one is denying their success. We get it, just think it's shit is all. Not sure where the supposed confusion comes from.
> 
> Farage was a successful marketer, Trump was a successful marketer. No one denying that - the argument is that overall they're shit.



No it’s not. You haven’t been reading the thread. Plenty of folk here decrying their marketing. 

Good to see that you at least, accept that it has been superbly effective.


----------



## salem (Feb 24, 2022)

(yawn)


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 24, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I think this is accepted by everyone now, even if grudgingly so by those who pretend to hate them on here.
> 
> It’s totally undeniable.


Effective insofar as it draws attention to them. That's entry level marketing. 

It's still the very worst kind of dross. It's still offensive.


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 24, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> No it’s not. You haven’t been reading the thread. Plenty of folk here decrying their marketing.
> 
> Good to see that you at least, accept that it has been superbly effective.


Don't start all this again.

BrewDog are effective in drawing attention to themselves, as are monkeys wanking themselves into a frenzy and toddlers drawing lipstick on wallpaper.

Align yourself with Brewdog all you like, and I know you will, but they are only superbly effective in bullying women, harassing employees, and undermining employment law.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 24, 2022)

Notable that certain people are failing to condemn the poster aligning themselves with Trump and Farage. Disgraceful.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 24, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Don't start all this again.
> 
> BrewDog are effective in drawing attention to themselves, as are monkeys wanking themselves into a frenzy and toddlers drawing lipstick on wallpaper.
> 
> Align yourself with Brewdog all you like, and I know you will, but they are only superbly effective in bullying women, harassing employees, and undermining employment law.



Don't be silly.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 24, 2022)

And John Lydon has a property portfolio. So maybe speculating is punk.


----------



## pbsmooth (Feb 24, 2022)

I don't think he's been a punk for a very long time.


----------



## bmd (Feb 24, 2022)

There's a Brew Dog on one of the main streets going into my town and they have used those massive plastic flood barrier things to block off 3 parking spaces outside the premises so that they don't have to worry about parking. Everyone else can do that.


----------



## editor (Feb 24, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> And John Lydon has a property portfolio. So maybe speculating is punk.


For your comparison to make any sense, Lydon would have to have been buying up tax swerving offshore properties in Barbados right at the start of his career when he as identified as a punk. But that was a long time ago so I've no idea why your trying to defend Watt.  

 The fact that James Watt bought half a million quid's worth of shares in Heineken while telling his mug 'punk equity' investors that they were fighting the old guard just shows what a greedy hypocrite he is.

But most alarming of all is that fact that he's such a slimy, sleazeball  that young female staff in multiple locations had to be protected from his advances and that should be reason enough for any (ripped off) investor to sever all connections with the shit company and for fanboys to STFU.


----------



## ddraig (Feb 24, 2022)

It's just the tiresome "bantz batton" being passed back and fro between the dwindling few


----------



## teuchter (Feb 24, 2022)




----------



## Spymaster (Feb 24, 2022)

I have to say, teuchter's value per post ratio on this thread is absolutely through the roof!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 24, 2022)

editor said:


> For your comparison to make any sense, Lydon would have to have been buying up tax swerving offshore properties in Barbados right at the start of his career when he as identified as a punk.



I’m not so sure the artist and the later man can be separated that easily. A less charitable interpretation would be that Lydon used Punk as a money making project that enabled his later capitalist manoeuvres. There’s nothing particularly spiritual about music styles preventing that from being the case.


----------



## editor (Feb 24, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I’m not so sure the artist and the later man can be separated that easily. A less charitable interpretation would be that Lydon used Punk as a money making project that enabled his later capitalist manoeuvres. There’s nothing particularly spiritual about music styles preventing that from being the case.


This is ridiculous, desperate whataboutery.


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 24, 2022)

ddraig said:


> It's just the tiresome "bantz batton" being passed back and fro between the dwindling few


Yeah, that's the thing, now it's just the two fanbois getting Internet points rather than defending Brewdog, so it's actually easier to point out that company's failings amongst the background noise.

What concerns me is Watt has yet to really present his next step. He could try with a new beer or new bars or something, but he could realistically go for something very ill judged. I'm still of a mind that Brewdog might not survive this scandal.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 24, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> What concerns me is Watt has yet to really present his next step.



Does that really concern you?

How much exactly?


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 24, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Does that really concern you?
> 
> How much exactly?



Well I'm not staying awake at the thought, but this is a man who has questionable records in business practice, human interactions, and financial investments. The documentary spells out his failings in great detail, and his brand fills in any gaps. He could choose to double down against whistleblowers, he could shut down bars, he could take his investment and personal fortune elsewhere, crippling local economies, he could try an elaborate bad-taste stunt.

What concerns me is that a "lad" hasn't learned anything about his conduct and will use his brand to encourage other "lads" to carry on his legacy.

What concerns me is your support for Brewdog no matter what is given to you as evidence of their failings.


----------



## editor (Feb 24, 2022)

The way the fanboys just ignore and shout over the women who have gone on record to state how uncomfortable they feel in the presence of Watt is just sickening.

I suspect it reflects very, very badly on their own attitudes towards women. After all, they've already shown how they're prepared to  just gloss over the well documented misogyny and sexism from this vile firm.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2022)

editor said:


> The way the fanboys just ignore and shout over the women who have gone on record to state how uncomfortable they feel in the presence of Watt is just sickening.
> 
> I suspect it reflects very, very badly on their own attitudes towards women. After all, they've already shown how they're prepared to  just gloss over the well documented misogyny and sexism from this vile firm.


Come, come, you know fine well women can't be having opinions, especially on being harassed.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 24, 2022)

The opinions of some women were most illuminating on the recent Bowie thread that got hushed up. On the one hand there's a nonce we can't discuss but on the other a marketing strategy using an unacceptable word.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2022)

I found the Brewdog Soft drinks! Only available through Tesco:









						BrewDog makes first move in soft drinks with POP Soda
					

Four flavours of BrewDog's POP Soda sub-brand have launched exclusively into Tesco




					www.thegrocer.co.uk
				




Edit: the link may ask for a subscription but if you Google 'brewdogcola' it's the first link and the whole article is available.

Cost is £4 for six 330ml cans. Standard size soft drink cans, price is on a par with six San Pellegrino of the same can size, so not unreasonable price wise. 

Will I drink it? As a soft drink person I am curious to know what they taste like, but they're never getting my money. I will see if I can find any ingredients listed on Tesco, that will probably give me an indication whether I would like it.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The opinions of some women were most illuminating on the recent Bowie thread that got hushed up. On the one hand there's a nonce we can't discuss but on the other a marketing strategy using an unacceptable word.


What's your point Magnus?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 24, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> What's your point Magnus?


I made it in the post you quoted.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 24, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> The opinions of some women were most illuminating on the recent Bowie thread that got hushed up. On the one hand there's a nonce we can't discuss but on the other a marketing strategy using an unacceptable word.


Shit-posting as performance art.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 24, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I found the Brewdog Soft drinks! Only available through Tesco:
> 
> 
> 
> ...





> BrewDog said it planned to put 100% of the profits from the soda range “towards funding solutions to help tackle the climate crisis”.



These guys really do know how to do marketing. Outstanding stuff


----------



## eatmorecheese (Feb 24, 2022)

I am overwhelmed with admiration for the genius _marketing _Brewdog does. It makes up for all the ethical problems and issues highlighted, after all.

Then again, I know little and care even less about _marketing. _I don't value it and what it contributes to jobs and the economy and I'm sure that's unfair of me. I just don't recognise the _genius._

Does clever marketing, regardless of the target demographic, have to be unethical and overtly manipulative to be admirable? Tbh, I know absolutely nothing about it. It just smells off to me.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2022)

Ingredients for cola:
Carbonated Water, British Beet Sugar, Natural Flavourings, Colour: Caramel (E150d), Phosphoric Acid, Madagascan Vanilla Extract, Vitamins (C, B3, B6, B7, B12, D3)

Fairly standard ingredients to be fair, and no artificial sugars or sweeteners which is interesting in this day and age (sugar tax). Vitamins? Doesn't say how much on the Tesco website.

The branding is kind of interesting as the claim Popsoda means Planet over Profit and 100% of the profits go towards fighting climate change (but doesn't say how or what initiatives). Also 'profit' can in practice mean very little after various expenditures are deducted, I'd love to see that calculation.

The Grocer magazine reported an attempt to gain a trademark for 'Sodadog' previously but I suspect they've dropped the Brewdog association in light of recent events.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I made it in the post you quoted.


If you did, it wasn't clear.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 24, 2022)

A basic non-special cola at a higher price than most offerings, is my overall view. Don't waste your money, there's cheaper nicer colas available.


----------



## teuchter (Feb 24, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> A basic non-special cola at a higher price than most offerings, is my overall view. Don't waste your money, there's cheaper nicer colas available.


Any particular recommendations?


----------



## PR1Berske (Feb 24, 2022)

eatmorecheese said:


> I am overwhelmed with admiration for the genius _marketing _Brewdog does. It makes up for all the ethical problems and issues highlighted, after all.
> 
> Then again, I know little and care even less about _marketing. _I don't value it and what it contributes to jobs and the economy and I'm sure that's unfair of me. I just don't recognise the _genius._
> 
> Does clever marketing, regardless of the target demographic, have to be unethical and overtly manipulative to be admirable? Tbh, I know absolutely nothing about it. It just smells off to me.


Marketing doesn't have to be what Brewdog choose to do. They're very good at shocks and gimmicks. It's basement level stuff. Awful.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 24, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Any particular recommendations?


I’m more surprised that she’s gone to the trouble of taste-testing a Brewdog product.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 24, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Shit-posting as performance art.


I wouldn't go that far, but this whole voices of women falls flat when the views can be so mixed even on this board.


----------



## Funky_monks (Feb 24, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> No it’s not. You haven’t been reading the thread. Plenty of folk here decrying their marketing.
> 
> Good to see that you at least, accept that it has been superbly effective.


Maybe its a "That London" thing. 
Never seen it anywhere other than in a supermarket round here.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 24, 2022)

Immediately regrets posting amongst these clowns on this troll-fest thread.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (Feb 24, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> Maybe its a "That London" thing.


Punk is sold in 'spoons. So the plebs outside of London also drink it.


----------



## Spymaster (Feb 24, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> Maybe its a "That London" thing.
> Never seen it anywhere other than in a supermarket round here.



Certainly not a London thing but their bars are in larger towns. 

List here:








						BrewDog
					

BrewDog




					www.brewdog.com


----------



## teuchter (Feb 24, 2022)

I'd say their bars are mainly aimed at the kind of people who don't live in London.


----------



## dessiato (Feb 24, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Immediately regrets posting amongst these clowns on this troll-fest thread.


Thats why I don’t bother anymore.


----------



## brogdale (Feb 24, 2022)

...he posted.


----------



## two sheds (Feb 24, 2022)

so did he 




.... oh shit


----------



## editor (Feb 24, 2022)

From last night's documentary:



> The programme makers started investigating the company after almost 300 former and current BrewDog employees signed a letter last year accusing founder James Watt of presiding over a toxic culture of fear last year.
> 
> In a scathing open letter they blasted the firm writing: "Being treated like a human being was sadly not always a given for those working at BrewDog."
> 
> More than 15 ex-BrewDog employees in the USA then went on to hit out at chief executive Mr Watt's conduct to the BBC Scotland's Disclosure documentary which aired this week.





> This included serious allegations that female bartenders were made to feel "uncomfortable " and "powerless" in his company. Mr Watt has fiercely denied all the allegations.
> 
> Katelynn Ising, who worked in DogTap, BrewDog's flagship bar and brewery in Canal Winchester, Ohio, said female staff would dress down when Mr Watt came into the bar.
> 
> ...











						Nicola Sturgeon's links to controversy hit beer giant BrewDog unearthed
					

Nicola Sturgeon has long been vocal in her admiration for the company, despite previous bad publicity involving crass PR stunts and employee disputes over treatment of staff.




					www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk


----------



## Santino (Feb 24, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Thats why I don’t bother anymore.


Did you get an apology yet?


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 24, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Thats why I don’t bother anymore.


phew, hope you're just reading and listening and learning instead. glad you're taking it on board and moving on


----------



## dessiato (Feb 25, 2022)

Santino said:


> Did you get an apology yet?


No.


----------



## equationgirl (Feb 25, 2022)

What do you think of the marketing for their soft drinks brand, dessiato ? I think it's blander but less controversial than usual, with the obligatory greenwashing.

Genuine question, not a dig.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 1, 2022)

Brewdog opening in Basingstoke this month.



> The chain, which is carbon negative, is now refitting its unit in Festival Place and has installed a sign outside ready for the opening next month.





> Festival Place previously told the Gazette that it had handed over the unit to BrewDog earlier this month.
> 
> 
> A spokeswoman said bringing BrewDog to the town was a “real coup” for the shopping centre.











						BrewDog refitting Festival Place unit ahead of opening in coming weeks
					

A CRAFT beer chain is preparing to open in Basingstoke in the coming weeks.




					www.basingstokegazette.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Brewdog opening in Basingstoke this month.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Great to see confirmation that they are carbon negative too


----------



## pbsmooth (Mar 1, 2022)

I can imagine it doesn't take much to be a "real coup" for Basingstoke.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 1, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> I can imagine it doesn't take much to be a "real coup" for Basingstoke.


I did predict that there would be some snooty remarks about Basingstoke, with people implying that the only reason Basingstoke is welcoming Brewdog being that the populace there is too stupid/behind the times etc to understand what's wrong with Brewdog.


----------



## nastyned (Mar 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I did predict that there would be some snooty remarks about Basingstoke, with people implying that the only reason Basingstoke is welcoming Brewdog being that the populace there is too stupid/behind the times etc to understand what's wrong with Brewdog.


I hope the Basingradians don't stand for this slander!


----------



## pbsmooth (Mar 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I did predict that there would be some snooty remarks about Basingstoke, with people implying that the only reason Basingstoke is welcoming Brewdog being that the populace there is too stupid/behind the times etc to understand what's wrong with Brewdog.


at least we're on the same page. _swigs Punk AF_


----------



## Funky_monks (Mar 1, 2022)

nastyned said:


> I hope the Basingradians don't stand for this slander!


Amazingstoke


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 5, 2022)

Add greenwashing to their list of cuntiness:








						Lost Forest: why is BrewDog’s green scheme causing controversy?
					

Firm has pledged to plant huge forest in Scotland, but some of its environmental claims have raised eyebrows




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 5, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Add greenwashing to their list of cuntiness:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think it was already on the list, no harm in underlining it though, especially as their new sift drink brand is making similar green promises.


----------



## editor (Mar 5, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Add greenwashing to their list of cuntiness:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


They just lie about everything like the cunts they are



> BrewDog paid £8.8m for Kinrara, according to Land Registry records, although many media reports at the time said it cost more than £10m. Its total size is equivalent to 37 sq km – not the 50 sq km it originally claimed. About a third of that has been dedicated to new woodlands.





> It said similar claims linking lager sales to tree-planting in the Lost Forest carried in licensed trade newspapers last year were “an error in communication”. BrewDog also accepted the claim Kinrara could capture up to 550,000 tonnes of CO2 a year was wrong. The correct figure was up to 1m tonnes over 100 years, it said.


----------



## Chilli.s (Mar 5, 2022)

I'm just amazed that it's possible to get a forest in a little can with a skull on it


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 5, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Add greenwashing to their list of cuntiness:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You have to agree though, it's still an outstanding project.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> You have to agree though, it's still an outstanding project.


Not necessarily. Read the article


----------



## nastyned (Mar 5, 2022)

Brewdog are trying to portray their criticism as a small number of disgruntled employees and have even named one they're  singling out as the ring leader: BREWDOG TRIGGERS OFCOM COMPLAINT OVER BBC DOCUMENTARY 

The open letter from Punks With Purpose has been signed by well over 300 people! An Open Letter to BrewDog, Punks With Purpose


----------



## two sheds (Mar 5, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Brewdog are trying to portray their criticism as a small number of disgruntled employees and have even named one they're  singling out as the ring leader: BREWDOG TRIGGERS OFCOM COMPLAINT OVER BBC DOCUMENTARY
> 
> The open letter from Punks With Purpose has been signed by well over 300 people! An Open Letter to BrewDog, Punks With Purpose


Great marketing


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> You have to agree though, it's still an outstanding project.


Why do you think it's such an outstanding project?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 5, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Not necessarily. Read the article



I did.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Why do you think it's such an outstanding project?



For obvious reasons


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> For obvious reasons


Oh you're doing that annoying thing, instead of putting forward actual reasons. Awesome.


----------



## PR1Berske (Mar 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Oh you're doing that annoying thing, instead of putting forward actual reasons. Awesome.


"James Wattaboutery"


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Oh you're doing that annoying thing, instead of putting forward actual reasons. Awesome.


Nonsense.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Nonsense.


you've willingly fallen for their greenwashing schtick then. who's the sucker now?


----------



## PR1Berske (Mar 5, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> you've willingly fallen for their greenwashing schtick then. who's the sucker now?


He'll just reply with a one word answer, don't provoke it.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 5, 2022)

One cryptic word answer PR1Berske don't forget the cryptic.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> One cryptic word answer PR1Berske don't forget the cryptic.



Recondite?


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Recondite?


Proving my point nicely, Spy.

It doesn't make you look clever, it just makes you look evasive, like you're dodging the question. Not really a a discussion of the Brewdog greenwashing, is it?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Proving my point nicely, Spy.
> 
> It doesn't make you look clever, it just makes you look evasive, like you're dodging the question. Not really a a discussion of the Brewdog greenwashing, is it?



Do you think the program is a bad thing then?


----------



## two sheds (Mar 5, 2022)

Well there is this: Corporate tree-planting drive in Scotland ‘risks widening rural inequality’


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 5, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Well there is this: Corporate tree-planting drive in Scotland ‘risks widening rural inequality’


Which is covered briefly in the article Spymaster has read


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 5, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Which is covered briefly in the article Spymaster has read



Which one? 

I'm channelling most of my intellect into sorting out Ukraine on Urban at the moment, so you'll have to help me out.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Which one?
> 
> I'm channelling most of my intellect into sorting out Ukraine on Urban at the moment, so you'll have to help me out.


The article we’re discussing right now as well you know


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 5, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> The article we’re discussing right now as well you know



Now who's being evasive?


----------



## AverageJoe (Mar 5, 2022)

What a time to be alive eh. 

Grow up everyone


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Now who's being evasive?


Now who’s being obtuse?









						Lost Forest: why is BrewDog’s green scheme causing controversy?
					

Firm has pledged to plant huge forest in Scotland, but some of its environmental claims have raised eyebrows




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Do you think the program is a bad thing then?


I think Brewdog can't keep their facts straight about exactly what this programme is or what it will do.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 5, 2022)

Orang Utan said:


> Now who’s being obtuse?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can you summarise your objections for those of us with less time on our hands, please?


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Which one?
> 
> I'm channelling most of my intellect into sorting out Ukraine on Urban at the moment, so you'll have to help me out.


A novel excuse.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> A novel excuse.



One Day In The Life Of Ivan Denisovich?


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Can you summarise your objections for those of us with less time on our hands, please?


Not if you haven’t done us the courtesy of reading the article


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 5, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> Grow up everyone



Wrong thread.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 5, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Brewdog are trying to portray their criticism as a small number of disgruntled employees and have even named one they're  singling out as the ring leader: BREWDOG TRIGGERS OFCOM COMPLAINT OVER BBC DOCUMENTARY


Reading through that, I wonder if the BBC is going to find itself in a spot of bother about the documentary.


----------



## ddraig (Mar 5, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Reading through that, I wonder if the BBC is going to find itself in a spot of bother about the documentary.


Want to have a bet for server fund?


----------



## hash tag (Mar 6, 2022)

Why not just donate to server fund? 👍


----------



## teuchter (Mar 6, 2022)

ddraig said:


> Want to have a bet for server fund?


What are the terms of the bet?


----------



## PR1Berske (Mar 8, 2022)

Brewdog is not alone in being horrendous places to work for women. Tiny Rebel is guilty too.


----------



## nastyned (Mar 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Brewdog is not alone in being horrendous places to work for women. Tiny Rebel is guilty too.



Mikkeller is another brewery that is also awful: ‘At a Breaking Point’ — Former Mikkeller Employees Allege Culture of Bullying, Harassment, and Indifference — Good Beer Hunting


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 8, 2022)

Looks like an industry wide problem to me.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 8, 2022)

Looks like Tiny Rebel and Mikkeller, lack all the positives of Brewdog though.


----------



## two sheds (Mar 8, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Looks like Tiny Rebel and Mikkeller, lack all the positives of Brewdog though.


not the same level of misogyny?


----------



## PR1Berske (Mar 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Looks like Tiny Rebel and Mikkeller, lack all the positives of Brewdog though.


🙄


----------



## nastyned (Mar 14, 2022)

The brewdog boss is being a complete scumbag again: BrewDog boss hired private investigators to gather evidence of alleged smear campaign


----------



## brogdale (Mar 14, 2022)

nastyned said:


> The brewdog boss is being a complete scumbag again: BrewDog boss hired private investigators to gather evidence of alleged smear campaign


Nah; you clearly don’t get it...just another brilliant bit of marketing from the beer wizards. Just sit down, shut-up and take a swig of your can of _NDA4dabitch._
See, just clever and edgy.


----------



## JimW (Mar 14, 2022)

nastyned said:


> The brewdog boss is being a complete scumbag again: BrewDog boss hired private investigators to gather evidence of alleged smear campaign


Brittle ponce as well as the rest.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Nah; you clearly don’t get it...just another brilliant bit of marketing from the beer wizards. Just sit down, shut-up and take a swig of your can of _NDA4dabitch._
> See, just clever and edgy.



Don't be daft, it's nothing to do with marketing. You have to admire the man for maintaining his principles and commitment to the Scottish economy though. Even whilst battling a smear campaign aimed at traducing the good name of Brewdog, James insists on supporting local business by engaging Integritas Investigative Solutions; a Glasgow based private investigations firm.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Don't be daft, it's nothing to do with marketing. You have to admire the man for maintaining his principles and commitment to the Scottish economy though. Even whilst battling a smear campaign aimed at traducing the good name of Brewdog, James insists on supporting local business by engaging Integritas Investigative Solutions; a Glasgow based private investigations firm.


if he was committed to the scottish economy perhaps he'd pay his fair share of tax


----------



## PR1Berske (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Don't be daft, it's nothing to do with marketing. You have to admire the man for maintaining his principles and commitment to the Scottish economy though. Even whilst battling a smear campaign aimed at traducing the good name of Brewdog, James insists on supporting local business by engaging Integritas Investigative Solutions; a Glasgow based private investigations firm.


I have to applaud your commitment to this character.


----------



## steeplejack (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Don't be daft, it's nothing to do with marketing. You have to admire the man for maintaining his principles and commitment to the Scottish economy though. Even whilst battling a smear campaign aimed at traducing the good name of Brewdog, James insists on supporting local business by engaging Integritas Investigative Solutions; a Glasgow based private investigations firm.



Glasgow is anything but "local" in the North East of Scotland. It's like saying a Bristol company is "local" to Gateshead.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

steeplejack said:


> Glasgow is anything but "local" in the North East of Scotland. It's like saying a Bristol company is "local" to Gateshead.



Pedantry.


----------



## steeplejack (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Pedantry.



not really, just facts. Inconvenient for your barcode-cancelled edgelord act, right enough.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

steeplejack said:


> not really, just facts. Inconvenient for your barcode-cancelled edgelord act, right enough.



Pfft


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2022)

The latest in a long line of narcissistic cuntery from Watt: BrewDog boss hired private investigators to gather evidence of alleged smear campaign

Presumably the hilariously named Integritas are punk private investigators.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

It's Groundhog Day.


----------



## dessiato (Mar 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> The latest in a long line of narcissistic cuntery from Watt: BrewDog boss hired private investigators to gather evidence of alleged smear campaign
> 
> Presumably the hilariously named Integritas are punk private investigators.


This page post #5171


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2022)

dessiato said:


> This page post #5171



Ah yes. Sorry, I realise I've weakened the argument as Spymaster will now add my double post to his list of Feeble Reasons Why the People Criticising Brewdog Are Wrong.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> ... Spymaster will now add my double post to his list ...



Supererogatory


----------



## JimW (Mar 14, 2022)

Expialidocious.


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Supererogatory



Indeed. And now you get to add 'some proponents are insufficiently sequipedalian' to that list too.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> And now you get to add 'some proponents are insufficiently sequipedalian' to that list too.



If I did, I'd try to spell it correctly.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster a local company would have been one based in Aberdeen. I know my geography is bad but yours appears to be in need of a remedial lesson or two on things and places local to Ellon.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Pedantry.


Says the world's second biggest pedant...


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> If I did, I'd try to spell them correctly.



If I was going to try to spell-shame people, I'd check the dictionary first.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> If I was going to try to spell-shame people, I'd check the dictionary first.


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


>



You do realise that smiley doesn't mean 'I'm sorry, you were right and I was wrong'?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> You do realise that smiley doesn't mean 'I'm sorry, you were right and I was wrong'?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Says the world's second biggest pedant...



Who's the first?


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

Brewdog: United for Ukraine

Outstanding stuff!


----------



## JimW (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Brewdog: United for Ukraine
> 
> Outstanding stuff!


You see a humanitarian catastrophe, we see another chance to build the brand. Could have just handed over some money.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

JimW said:


> You see a humanitarian catastrophe, we see another chance to build the brand.



Genius.


----------



## JimW (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Genius.


Anius more like.


----------



## Santino (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Genius.


I just want to say, from the position of someone who has himself acted like a dick on the internet on and off for over twenty years, you're behaving like a tremendously boring cunt.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

Santino said:


> I just want to say, from the position of someone who has himself acted like a dick on the internet on and off for over twenty years, you're behaving like a tremendously boring cunt.



You disagree?


----------



## teuchter (Mar 14, 2022)

JimW said:


> You see a humanitarian catastrophe, we see another chance to build the brand. Could have just handed over some money.


Lots of people criticising them for not having handed over any money unannounced.

Bit of a catch 22 for Brewdog there.

You can see why they are forced into these publicity stunts by the grinding negativity of awful internet people like the ones on here.


----------



## JimW (Mar 14, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Lots of people criticising them for not having handed over any money unannounced.
> 
> Bit of a catch 22 for Brewdog there.
> 
> You can see why they are forced into these publicity stunts by the grinding negativity of awful internet people like the ones on here.


How's that a catch 22? Do the right thing and shut the fuck up. And in Watt's case fuck the fuck off too, daddy's money bully sex pest.
Furthermore, grinding negativity is our best hope and shield against his despicable ilk and the world of puffed up twattery they seek to construct for their benefit and us to stew in.


----------



## Pickman's model (Mar 14, 2022)

JimW said:


> How's that a catch 22? Do the right thing and shut the fuck up. And in Watt's case fuck the fuck off too, daddy's money bully sex pest.
> Furthermore, grinding negativity is our best hope and shield against his despicable ilk and the world of puffed up twattery they seek to construct for their benefit and us to stew in.


teuchter's entire persona is based around grinding negativity


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Who's the first?


I'm shocked you don't know that. Shocked.


----------



## equationgirl (Mar 14, 2022)

James Watt posted on LinkedIn about having to use a firm of private investigators because he's been the subject of smear campaigns and had to find out who was behind it.


----------



## teuchter (Mar 14, 2022)

JimW said:


> How's that a catch 22? Do the right thing and shut the fuck up. And in Watt's case fuck the fuck off too, daddy's money bully sex pest.
> Furthermore, grinding negativity is our best hope and shield against his despicable ilk and the world of puffed up twattery they seek to construct for their benefit and us to stew in.


If they donate £millions without saying anything, people will accuse them of not having donated millions to charity.

In your opinion have Brewdog probably donated millions of pounds to charity, without announcing it, every year for the past few years?


----------



## teuchter (Mar 14, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> teuchter's entire persona is based around grinding negativity


I've mad it my life's mission to grind away negativity on urban75, until there's nothing to be seen but relentless positivity.


----------



## editor (Mar 14, 2022)

JimW said:


> You see a humanitarian catastrophe, we see another chance to build the brand. Could have just handed over some money.


Except these cunts are only interested in promoting their own brand and going on about the "pillowy softness and mix of citrus and exotic notes” and “silky delivery" of their own products rather than just giving money away.

Let's not forget these were the shameless charlatans who tried to cash on on covid with non existent vaccination centres in their bars (there were none) and fantasy free water for NHS centres that no one ever asked for.


----------



## Spymaster (Mar 14, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I've mad it my life's mission to grind away negativity on urban75, until there's nothing to be seen but relentless positivity.



Admirable


----------



## JimW (Mar 14, 2022)

teuchter said:


> If they donate £millions without saying anything, people will accuse them of not having donated millions to charity.
> 
> In your opinion have Brewdog probably donated millions of pounds to charity, without announcing it, every year for the past few years?


Not something where an opinion is relevant, if you're interested look it up. I've no idea. But we can see what's happened here.


----------



## NoXion (Mar 15, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I've mad it my life's mission to grind away negativity on urban75, until there's nothing to be seen but relentless positivity.



You are such a fucking bullshitter. So full of it you've got brown eyes.


----------



## PR1Berske (Mar 15, 2022)

From the Instagram account "Fanny Wandel" , looking into the private investigators employed by James Watt


----------



## PR1Berske (Mar 15, 2022)

From the Punks with Purpose group:




Spoiler



We categorically refute the claims made by James Watt as a response to the Guardian Article of 14 March 2022 (“BrewDog boss hired private investigators to gather evidence of alleged smear campaign“) that one of the Punks With Purpose founders is implicated in any legal case that may exist regarding BrewDog. None of our founding or current members have been contacted by BrewDog, James Watt, lawyers representing either party, or the police.

At our core, Punks With Purpose are a small group of ex-colleagues and have never claimed to speak on behalf of all signatories of our open letter. Those people voluntarily signed because they agreed with what we had to say, and our end goal of helping BrewDog to be the company we all know it could be.

In our open letter, published in the summer of 2021, we raised attention to a culture of fear at BrewDog. BrewDog, in response, have claimed that such a culture did not exist, and that other issues raised in the letter are in the past. In their responses they say the company has grown into one where staff are treated with the respect they deserve.

We are saddened to hear that BrewDog would have Private Investigators to intimidate ex-staff and BBC sources for the documentary “The Truth About BrewDog“. This highlights that the supposedly non-existent culture of fear remains alive and well, and intimidation is still a key tactic for BrewDog’s management.

We had hoped that the shadow of this culture of fear ended for staff members when they ceased working for the company, but this news suggests otherwise.

We call on BrewDog to end all intimidation of ex-staff immediately, and to open avenues of discussion with them to fully address their concerns and to allow them to help BrewDog grow into the force of good it should and can still hopefully be within the craft beer industry.

We would encourage all of those impacted by these intimidatory actions to register a case with Hand and Heart’s Affected Workers Registration Platform.


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 15, 2022)

NoXion said:


> So full of it you've got brown eyes.


One of my favourite Geordie says is "Ya moofs all brown fram talkin shite man"


----------



## friedaweed (Mar 15, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> From the Instagram account "Fanny Wandel" , looking into the private investigators employed by James Watt


Sounds like an episode from Line of Duty   Fanny Wandel's a great name. I was listening to Gardeners Question time on radio 4 a couple of years ago and they had guest on called Fanny Shears.


----------



## editor (Mar 15, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> From the Punks with Purpose group:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What a truly awful company they are. And yet some (all male, obvs) fanboys still cheer on their dodgy actions.


----------



## Funky_monks (Mar 15, 2022)

If they can't get the basics right - ie making beer that isn't shite, I think you lot are expecting rather a lot of them to get anything else right.


----------



## hitmouse (Mar 31, 2022)

Bark and Bite — BrewDog Rep Using Legal Maneuver to Unmask Victims and Their Stories — Good Beer Hunting
					

Update April 2:   What early this week was described as a “pause” in discussions between workplace consultancy Hand & Heart and BrewDog appears to now be a complete break. In response to a letter BrewDog sent Hand & Heart founder Kate Bailey dated March 31, Bailey    issued a stateme




					www.goodbeerhunting.com
				






> *THE GIST*
> On March 30, hospitality consultancy Hand & Heart announced that a representative from BrewDog is using legal means to seek information related to stories of alleged workplace misconduct at the global brewing company.
> In her statement, Hand & Heart founder Kate Bailey intimates that the information requested would come from its Affected Workers Platform (AWP), which was launched in February by the consultancy in conjunction with a group of former BrewDog employees called Punks With Purpose. Hand & Heart says the request for information was issued on March 25 by an individual representative of BrewDog.
> 
> ...


----------



## brogdale (Mar 31, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Bark and Bite — BrewDog Rep Using Legal Maneuver to Unmask Victims and Their Stories — Good Beer Hunting
> 
> 
> Update April 2:   What early this week was described as a “pause” in discussions between workplace consultancy Hand & Heart and BrewDog appears to now be a complete break. In response to a letter BrewDog sent Hand & Heart founder Kate Bailey dated March 31, Bailey    issued a stateme
> ...


properly rattled.


----------



## editor (Mar 31, 2022)

> An attempt by a BrewDog representative to gather information and details from the AWP represents the antithesis of what the platform was designed to be: a safe, third-party means by which to collect accounts from former and current BrewDog employees.



Filth.


----------



## PR1Berske (Mar 31, 2022)

So having been abused while working at Brewdog, you're now under threat of being outed as a complainant by Brewdog.


Abusers never stop eh.


----------



## billy_bob (Mar 31, 2022)

Spymaster said:


>



Oh, I see it now   Typo rather than mispelling, but fair enough - one point to you


----------



## teuchter (Mar 31, 2022)

Clear as mud. That article seems to be based on the statement from the "Hand and Heart" agency and yet seems to add in quite a bit of stuff that isn't in that statement. So, is it speculation, or has info been leaked to the article author somehow?


----------



## nastyned (Mar 31, 2022)

Hand and Heart now have legal issues thanks to someone very senior at Brewdog so have to be very careful about what they say themselves.


----------



## nastyned (Apr 1, 2022)

More from Hand and Heart: Update - Response To BrewDog Board 01.04.2022 — Hand & Heart Business Consulting / Hospo Hotline for Food Business


----------



## PR1Berske (Apr 26, 2022)




----------



## hash tag (Apr 26, 2022)

Thanks to DaveCinzano on another thread


----------



## editor (Apr 26, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Thanks to DaveCinzano on another thread
> View attachment 320244


They even lie about limited editions


----------



## Funky_monks (Apr 27, 2022)

"Limited Edition"............. Beer?

GTFO


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 27, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Looks like an industry wide problem to me.


Above is from page #173, relating to stories of _other_ breweries behaving really badly**.  I don't dispute the specific stories at all.

**Including Newport's own Tiny Rebel, the quality of whose beers has npticeably declined in recent years anyway 

But I disagree that shitty behaviour, especially on a Brewdog scale , is "'industry-wide" in the Trade

From what restricted amount I know from a few people I know who work in smaller, mostly independent breweries, there are plenty of breweries who do treat their employees well, or at least perfectly acceptably


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 27, 2022)

William of Walworth said:


> Above is from page #173, relating to stories of _other_ breweries behaving really badly**.  I don't dispute the specific stories at all.
> 
> **Including Newport's own Tiny Rebel, the quality of whose beers has npticeably declined in recent years anyway
> 
> ...


I agree that smaller independent breweries are, on the face of things, more likely to treat their staff better (if it assumed for the sake of argument that better = not what Brewdog does). 

But on the basis of as you put it "a limited amount of data' that can't be bootstrapped to 'all the brewing companies including the big corporates behaving perfectly - and by extension associated bars, pubs and restaurants selling their products.

Apologies - I cannot remember the exact term for a premises owned by a brewery. Covid brain fog still gets me on occasion.

Sexual harassment is not a problem most men see for the most part.  I once was shown an article by a colleague about common types of sexual harassment and he asked me how many of the ten I had experienced. When I told him six, he was quite surprised. I showed the list to several women colleagues, who reported similar. So do we all run to HR to report each and every instance? Christ, no. That would be a nightmare.

So what you're seeing with the Brewdog reports is the worst of it, the tip of the iceberg - not an outlier.

Great to see you on the thread


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 28, 2022)

equationgirl : I mostly agree with the above -- good points! 

Still .....



> I cannot remember the exact term for a premises owned by a brewery



Tied house?

Or even "brewery"?


----------



## equationgirl (Apr 28, 2022)

William of Walworth said:


> equationgirl : I mostly agree with the above -- good points!
> 
> Still .....
> 
> ...


Tied house, I think it was that. Thank you!


----------



## Funky_monks (Apr 28, 2022)

William of Walworth said:


> equationgirl : I mostly agree with the above -- good points!
> 
> Still .....
> 
> ...


Pub?


----------



## brogdale (Apr 28, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> Pub?


Tad early...but, gwan then.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 28, 2022)

I'm not fundamentally going to disagree with anything you've just said, equationgirl - I've seen shittiness in the retail end of the drinks industry and although I've no idea what goes on in the big breweries, it would hardly be a surprise if they're not havens of enlightened staff treatment and equality.

But I think you have to look at this as not just one big homogeneous industry.  No one expects Carling to be anything but a lowest-common-denominator-pleasing corporate. That doesn't excuse them if they're unethical, but the root of the particular anger with Brewdog isn't that anyone thinks they're uniquely terrible but about how much it jars with their self-presentation as independent, craft brewers doing it for the love of it. And not only are they bullshitting everyone but they tarnish the image of the part of the industry they're pretending to be part of - in fact, pretending to be the main standard bearers for - that really is full of people doing it for the love of it and keen to do business differently: if you've ever read any of the trade and promo beer magazines you'll have seen multiple articles about LGBTQ-run breweries, zero-carbon pledges, circular economy, etc. I'm not saying there aren't bad 'uns there too of course, but I think it'd be very unfair to assume every company that makes beer is part of whatever iceberg Brewdog is the tip of.

Having said that, TBH, thanks to Brewdog, I'm now wary, possibly unfairly, of _any _of the 'crafts' who've managed to get their wares into major stockists nationally - Tiny Rebel, Camden, Northern Monk, etc. I'd rather stick to what's in the local independent bottle shops and tap houses even if I can afford less of it.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 28, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> the particular anger with Brewdog isn't that anyone thinks they're uniquely terrible


Are you quite sure about that?


----------



## hash tag (Apr 28, 2022)

Going slightly off topic, the thought of "craft beer" sends shivers down my spine. What is craft beer? There is nothing like a decent pint of cask beer hand drawn or preferably gravity fed.


----------



## teuchter (Apr 28, 2022)

Craft beer means that it has a name that is based on a pun of some kind.


----------



## Pickman's model (Apr 28, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Going slightly off topic, the thought of "craft beer" sends shivers down my spine. What is craft beer? There is nothing like a decent pint of cask beer hand drawn or preferably gravity fed.


craft beer is short for fellow craft beer, beer made by second degree freemasons


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 28, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Going slightly off topic, the thought of "craft beer" sends shivers down my spine. What is craft beer? There is nothing like a decent pint of cask beer hand drawn or preferably gravity fed.


There's no real meaning to the term "craft beer" -- it can mean, or even not mean, a whole range of things, accurately and inaccurately!

I try to avoid using the term, really.

Corporate Coors with "Doom Bar" (ubiquitous, boring shite!) have tried to describe their "beer" as "craft beer" recently! 
And "Doom Bar" is often the token, single, 'real ale' in a pub. Its presence is to me the giveaway sign of an ultra-lazy (or overcontrolled!  )  landlord/pub manager


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 28, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> craft beer is short for fellow craft beer, beer made by second degree freemasons


Sssh!! Keep that quiet


----------



## William of Walworth (Apr 28, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I'm not fundamentally going to disagree with anything you've just said, equationgirl - I've seen shittiness in the retail end of the drinks industry and although I've no idea what goes on in the big breweries, it would hardly be a surprise if they're not havens of enlightened staff treatment and equality.
> 
> But I think you have to look at this as not just one big homogeneous industry.  No one expects Carling to be anything but a lowest-common-denominator-pleasing corporate. That doesn't excuse them if they're unethical, but the root of the particular anger with Brewdog isn't that anyone thinks they're uniquely terrible but about how much it jars with their self-presentation as independent, craft brewers doing it for the love of it. And not only are they bullshitting everyone but they tarnish the image of the part of the industry they're pretending to be part of - in fact, pretending to be the main standard bearers for - that really is full of people doing it for the love of it and keen to do business differently: if you've ever read any of the trade and promo beer magazines you'll have seen multiple articles about LGBTQ-run breweries, zero-carbon pledges, circular economy, etc. I'm not saying there aren't bad 'uns there too of course, but I think it'd be very unfair to assume every company that makes beer is part of whatever iceberg Brewdog is the tip of.
> 
> Having said that, TBH, thanks to Brewdog, I'm now wary, possibly unfairly, of _any _of the 'crafts' who've managed to get their wares into major stockists nationally - Tiny Rebel, Camden, Northern Monk, etc. I'd rather stick to what's in the local independent bottle shops and tap houses even if I can afford less of it.



This is an absolutely great post, and expresses, much better, what I was trying to reply to equationgirl yesterday


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 28, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Are you quite sure about that?



I'm quite sure about what I said before you cut it short in order to distort the emphasis, if that's what you mean?


----------



## nastyned (Apr 28, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Having said that, TBH, thanks to Brewdog, I'm now wary, possibly unfairly, of _any _of the 'crafts' who've managed to get their wares into major stockists nationally - Tiny Rebel, Camden, Northern Monk, etc. I'd rather stick to what's in the local independent bottle shops and tap houses even if I can afford less of it.


Tiny Rebel are definitely wrong'uns: Tiny Rebel Sexism ⋆ Laura Hadland: The Extreme Housewife ⋆ Sexism in beer
Campden Town Brewery was bought by ABInBev, the world's largest brewing company
There have been problems at Northern Monk too: Northern Breweries caught up in harassment complaints


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 29, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Tiny Rebel are definitely wrong'uns: Tiny Rebel Sexism ⋆ Laura Hadland: The Extreme Housewife ⋆ Sexism in beer
> Campden Town Brewery was bought by ABInBev, the world's largest brewing company
> There have been problems at Northern Monk too: Northern Breweries caught up in harassment complaints


Thanks for that. Well, there you go, then - added to my 'definitely off the menu' list.


----------



## billy_bob (Apr 29, 2022)

And to be fair, giving a burger a puerile name is obviously the thinner end of the wedge compared with allegations of harrassment, but it undermines what I said before and bolsters what equationgirl said about culture - casual, laddish micromisogyny stuff like 'The BJ' is arguably evidence of an engrained culture even among the more right-on-seeming small outfits. And of course I'm less likely to notice that end of the wedge than a woman is.  I'm inclined to go off and check up on the credentials of all the brewers I gravitate towards now (Almasty, Anarchy, Pollys, Two by Two, Flash House, Cloudwater ...)


----------



## JimW (Apr 29, 2022)

Craft beer means the final filtration was done through a wad of Fuzzy Felt.


----------



## T & P (May 3, 2022)

I just saw this on the Beeb and came here to read the ensuing bunfight, but it seems it hasn’t been posted yet so I’ll get the ball rolling…









						Brewdog boss James Watt plans to give staff 20% of his stake
					

James Watt owns a quarter of the fast-growing Aberdeenshire-based beer maker.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## DaphneM (May 4, 2022)

T & P said:


> I just saw this on the Beeb and came here to read the ensuing bunfight, but it seems it hasn’t been posted yet so I’ll get the ball rolling…
> 
> 
> 
> ...


what a despicable scumbag


----------



## two sheds (May 4, 2022)

yeh - only 20%


----------



## nastyned (May 4, 2022)

He's offering a discount and a free badge to ex-staff. Though if he really wants to improve relations with ex-staff I would have thought that stopping paying people to spy on them would be a better starting point.


----------



## Spymaster (May 4, 2022)

nastyned said:


> He's offering a discount and a free badge to ex-staff. Though if he really wants to improve relations with ex-staff I would have thought that stopping paying people to spy on them would be a better starting point.



Fuck the ex-staff. They're gone already. It's the current ones that this is aimed at.


----------



## brogdale (May 4, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Fuck the ex-staff. They're gone already. It's the current ones that this is aimed at.


Non-remuneration retention attempt?

Maybe they're shedding staff too quickly.


----------



## PR1Berske (May 4, 2022)

"Fuck the ex-staff"


----------



## Spymaster (May 4, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> "Fuck the ex-staff"


----------



## editor (May 4, 2022)

It's also worth noting that the article states that the sleazy bully is 'planning' to give 20% of the stake.

It's worth recalling that he also planned to give away canned water to the NHS (nope), open up his bars as vaccination centres (nope), give away 'solid gold cans' (nope) and a host of other PR lies.

So perhaps the fans boys should hold back on getting all creamed up over their hero until we see what his words actually mean.


----------



## friedaweed (May 4, 2022)

JimW said:


> Craft beer means the final filtration was done through a wad of Fuzzy Felt.


To be truly authentic craft beer the label should also be stuck on with Copydex


----------



## friedaweed (May 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Craft beer means that it has a name that is based on a pun of some kind.


No that's Craic Beer


----------



## Dystopiary (May 4, 2022)

"James Watt promised something so it's guaranteed to happen! Stupid workers' rights people - middle class "me, me, me" tossers.



If you find sexual harassment funny, you're an arsehole.


----------



## billy_bob (May 4, 2022)

JimW said:


> Craft beer means the final filtration was done through a wad of Fuzzy Felt.



Filtration? Get out, you shandy-drinking ponce - I want mine to have the consistency of split pea soup! I want bloody great yeast floaters like bits of ear wax in it or I'm not touching it!


----------



## friedaweed (May 4, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Filtration? Get out, you shandy-drinking ponce - I want mine to have the consistency of split pea soup! I want bloody great yeast floaters like bits of ear wax in it or I'm not touching it!


Spoken like a true CAMRA man.


----------



## nastyned (May 4, 2022)

I don't think this aimed at current or ex-staff. Brewdog desperately want to have their IPO so the boss has to be seen to do something about the ongoing PR train wreck about how awfully they treat their staff.


----------



## billy_bob (May 4, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Spoken like a true CAMRA man.




Indeed. I'm one of their biggest fans.


----------



## kenny g (May 5, 2022)

He is taking out a private prosecution against an employee. Next hearing is at Southwark crown court on 1st June. BrewDog CEO brings prosecution against a woman for ‘dishonesty’


----------



## brogdale (May 5, 2022)

kenny g said:


> He is taking out a private prosecution against an employee. Next hearing is at Southwark crown court on 1st June. BrewDog CEO brings prosecution against a woman for ‘dishonesty’


Woof


----------



## hitmouse (May 5, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Woof
> 
> View attachment 321244


Hopefully the charges won't stick?


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2022)

She could be in for a ruff time.


----------



## teuchter (May 5, 2022)

kenny g said:


> He is taking out a private prosecution against an employee. Next hearing is at Southwark crown court on 1st June. BrewDog CEO brings prosecution against a woman for ‘dishonesty’


Not sure she's an employee.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 5, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Not sure she's an employee.


She's the director of a news agency.


----------



## teuchter (May 5, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> She's the director of a news agency.


Where have you got that from?


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 5, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> She's the director of a news agency.


Or an international model, influencer and COVID vaccine-developing bioprocess engineer 😱😱😱


----------



## DaphneM (May 5, 2022)

kenny g said:


> He is taking out a private prosecution against an employee. Next hearing is at Southwark crown court on 1st June. BrewDog CEO brings prosecution against a woman for ‘dishonesty’


Definitely not an employee


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 5, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Or an international model, influencer and COVID vaccine-developing bioprocess engineer 😱😱😱


Quite the multi-tasker.


----------



## two sheds (May 5, 2022)

Is she not an employee then?


----------



## editor (May 5, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Or an international model, influencer and COVID vaccine-developing bioprocess engineer 😱😱😱


It's possible to be all those things, you know.



			https://uk.linkedin.com/in/emili-ziem-444080134
		










						Emili Ziem (@emiliziem) • Instagram photos and videos
					

19K Followers, 810 Following, 235 Posts - See Instagram photos and videos from Emili Ziem (@emiliziem)




					www.instagram.com
				












						Emili Ziem
					

Model Emili Ziem's profile on Kavyar




					kavyar.com


----------



## DaveCinzano (May 5, 2022)

editor said:


> It's possible to be all those things, you know.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Almost as though... That's exactly what my post said?


----------



## editor (May 5, 2022)

DaveCinzano said:


> Almost as though... That's exactly what my post said?


Sorry, I thought you were implying that she was making up jobs as a way to discredit her. 

Apols, but  I imagine they'll be plenty of Brewdog fanboys doing just that, probably with a bit of casual misogyny thrown in the mix, in homage to their hero.


----------



## billy_bob (May 5, 2022)

Well, the Brewdog fanboys are in the minority under the Guardian posts on Twitter so far. Plenty of judicious and factual criticisms of Watt and the company, but this was the comment I enjoyed the most


----------



## editor (May 5, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Well, the Brewdog fanboys are in the minority under the Guardian posts on Twitter so far. Plenty of judicious and factual criticisms of Watt and the company, but this was the comment I enjoyed the most
> 
> View attachment 321274


Can you post up a link to that Twitter thread please?


----------



## billy_bob (May 5, 2022)

editor said:


> Can you post up a link to that Twitter thread please?



Aye, that one was a stand-alone post:



This is from the Guardian feed:



And there's lots more abuse for the beer, the company and the man this morning if you just search Twitter on 'Brewdog'.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2022)

This one seems to hit the target


----------



## billy_bob (May 5, 2022)

Indeed. Call me a bully, will you? I'll show you bullying!


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 5, 2022)

Daily Mail are covering the story and, typically for that rag, they are focusing on her modelling  rather than her science/engineering background or the fact that she is the director of a media agency.


----------



## hash tag (May 5, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Daily Mail are covering the story and, typically for that rag, they are focusing on her modelling  rather than her science/engineering background or the fact that she is the director of a media agency.


Just highlights yet again why you should steer clear of that garbage.


----------



## JoeyBoy (May 5, 2022)

What is she supposed to have done? It just says he accuses her of fraud and dishonesty but if she has been saying shit about him shouldn't he be suing her rather than a prosecution? I thought private prosecutions were only for when someone had commited a crime and the rozzers weren't interested in doing anything.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2022)

JoeyBoy said:


> What is she supposed to have done? It just says he accuses her of fraud and dishonesty but if she has been saying shit about him shouldn't he be suing her rather than a prosecution? I thought private prosecutions were only for when someone had commited a crime and the rozzers weren't interested in doing anything.


I've no idea but I can sense a tsunami sized_ Streisand Effect_ bubbling up over this.


----------



## DaphneM (May 5, 2022)

JoeyBoy said:


> What is she supposed to have done? It just says he accuses her of fraud and dishonesty but if she has been saying shit about him shouldn't he be suing her rather than a prosecution? I thought private prosecutions were only for when someone had commited a crime and the rozzers weren't interested in doing anything.


This is quite useful info.






						Private Prosecutions | The Crown Prosecution Service
					






					www.cps.gov.uk


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2022)

JoeyBoy said:


> What is she supposed to have done? It just says he accuses her of fraud and dishonesty but if she has been saying shit about him shouldn't he be suing her rather than a prosecution? I thought private prosecutions were only for when someone had commited a crime and the rozzers weren't interested in doing anything.





> Ideally all cases and prosecutions would be bought by law enforcement and the CPS. However, owing to budget and resource cuts to both institutions over recent years, the police are unable to investigate as many cases as they would like.
> 
> 
> With limited resources at their disposal, in terms of both money and front-line officers, there is a greater focus on preventing and detecting violent crime, terrorism, and offences against individuals — justifiably so. Consequently, fraud, particularly against corporate entities can be considered lower priority, apparently 'victimless' crimes. As such, these cases are often not investigated further and therefore never make it into the judicial system.
> ...


----------



## kenny g (May 5, 2022)

JoeyBoy said:


> What is she supposed to have done? It just says he accuses her of fraud and dishonesty but if she has been saying shit about him shouldn't he be suing her rather than a prosecution? I thought private prosecutions were only for when someone had commited a crime and the rozzers weren't interested in doing anything.


Using criminal fraud proceedings in this manner for what would normally be defamation is novel , overbearing and I would suggest bullying.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Private Prosecutions | The Crown Prosecution Service
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Have you an opinion or something to add, or are you just posting up a link for no particular reason?


----------



## SpookyFrank (May 5, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Well, the Brewdog fanboys are in the minority under the Guardian posts on Twitter so far. Plenty of judicious and factual criticisms of Watt and the company, but this was the comment I enjoyed the most
> 
> View attachment 321274



He does look a proper fucking chief in that picture tbf.


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2022)

kenny g said:


> Using criminal fraud proceedings in this manner for what would normally be defamation is novel , overbearing and I would suggest bullying.



There's a bit more to it than that.

He's alleging 'a 2 year campaign of blackmail, fraud, harassment, defamation, and malicious communications'

BrewDog to open 27 sites this year

But the main news in that piece is that the superb Brewdog business model continues it's phenomenal success with plans to open 27 new locations this year, including 8 more overseas.

Wow!


----------



## billy_bob (May 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> But the main news in that piece is that the superb Brewdog business model continues it's phenomenal success with plans to open 27 new locations this year, including 8 more overseas.
> 
> Wow!



Cunt Is Successful Businessman

Big fucking news story


----------



## billy_bob (May 5, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> He does look a proper fucking chief in that picture tbf.



It's like 8 hours later and I'm still laughing at 'look at his stupid fucking hat and wristband and face'


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> It's like 8 hours later and I'm still laughing at 'look at his stupid fucking hat and wristband and face'



Yeah, but you aren’t really. If you’ve been laughing at that for 8 hours there’s something wrong with you. What you’ve actually been doing is wishing you worked for him and were up for a bit of the 100 mil!


----------



## xenon (May 5, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> He does look a proper fucking chief in that picture tbf.



A chief. ha. Have not heard that for years.


----------



## xenon (May 5, 2022)

BrewDog suing for alleged dishonesty? That is Proper taking the piss.


----------



## billy_bob (May 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Yeah, but you aren’t really. If you’ve been laughing at that for 8 hours there’s something wrong with you.





Yes, you win. I have indeed taken breaks in order to conduct my usual daily business, while occasionally seeing this thread or the Twitter post or remembering the wording and laughing to myself about it. 

Those posters who haven't had a sense of humour bypass will no doubt recognise hyperbole when they see it and understand that I meant 'I find that wording very funny'.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 5, 2022)

kenny g said:


> Using criminal fraud proceedings in this manner for what would normally be defamation is novel , overbearing and I would suggest bullying.


Possibly.  Or it could be to defend himself and his company against a concerted campaign of harassment, lies and fraud.

It will be interesting to see what happens. 









						BrewDog CEO details legal action underway against 'individuals who defrauded me'
					

Criminal prosecution for serious fraud and malicious communications ongoing in London, while civil proceedings have started at The Court of Session in Scotland




					www.insider.co.uk


----------



## editor (May 5, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Possibly.  Or it could be to defend himself and his company against a concerted campaign of harassment, lies and fraud.
> 
> It will be interesting to see what happens.
> 
> ...



Kind of weird that no one seems to know anything about this 'concerted campaign of harassment, lies and fraud.'

If he's looking for damages, he's going to have to prove reputational damage and that might get interesting


----------



## billy_bob (May 5, 2022)

editor said:


> Kind of weird that no one seems to know anything about this 'concerted campaign of harassment, lies and fraud.'



It's not completely implausible to imagine someone with a grudge against him - and he's given plenty of people plenty of reasons for them - setting out to expose him and going too far, thinking, well, I _know_ he's a wrong 'un so it doesn't really matter if I have to stretch the truth a bit to make sure everyone else knows it.

But yes, on the face of it it seems a little convenient that someone who's accused of all sorts of dishonesty and shoddy treatment of others has apparently been the victim of exactly that himself all this time.


----------



## teuchter (May 5, 2022)

He says he was defrauded of half a million pounds and this is what one of the cases is about.

Who knows what the truth is. Obviously plenty of contributors to this thread have satisfied themselves that he is so much of a wrong-un, pretty much anything goes as far as attacks on him are concerned.

A lot of that seems to be based on what was in the BBC documentary. He says that a lot of what was said in that documentary is not true. And it sounds like what the court case is about, is connected with things that were claimed in the documentary.

It'll certainly be pretty interesting to see what comes out in court. 

The same outrage merchants who want everything to be black and white will of course take what I've written above as some kind of statement of support for Brewdog guy, regardless of what the actual words say.

Finally, I don't think it's ok to have a go at people based on aspects of their looks that they have no control over. Mocking hats or armbands is ok, but not faces. I hope we can all agree on that, after a little reflection.


----------



## nastyned (May 5, 2022)

teuchter said:


> A lot of that seems to be based on what was in the BBC documentary.


How old is this thread? And how old is the documentary? To be honest what went into the BBC documentary is tame compared to what I've heard from people that worked for Brewdog.


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Possibly.  Or it could be to defend himself and his company against a concerted campaign of harassment, lies and fraud.



Which is exactly what you'd do if you believed it genuinely was the case.

Let's be honest; practically everything BD have been accused of has been thoroughly debunked on this very thread.

Any reasonable onlooker would conclude that Mr Watt, may have a very sound case.


----------



## teuchter (May 5, 2022)

nastyned said:


> How old is this thread? And how old is the documentary? To be honest what went into the BBC documentary is tame compared to what I've heard from people that worked for Brewdog.


Until quite recently, this thread was mainly about Brewdog marketing (as per its title). The things to do with former employees only really appeared in the last couple of years and this thread shifted its focus to that quite recently. First there were the open letters, then after a bit the documentary appeared to confirm various accusations. I think that had an effect on perception. It had an effect on mine anyway.


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Finally, I don't think it's ok to have a go at people based on aspects of their looks that they have no control over. Mocking hats or armbands is ok, but not faces. I hope we can all agree on that, after a little reflection.



SpookyFrank actually referred to him as "chief"

Which is outrageously offensive to Native Americans, and comparable to the "N" word in some their communities.

Disappointing.


----------



## teuchter (May 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> SpookyFrank actually referred to him as "chief"
> 
> Which is outrageously offensive to Native Americans, and comparable to the "N" word in some their communities.


I didn't know that but it's good that we can all learn, and grow to be better people, together here.


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> View attachment 321339
> 
> Yes, you win. I have indeed taken breaks in order to conduct my usual daily business, while occasionally seeing this thread or the Twitter post or remembering the wording and laughing to myself about it.
> 
> Those posters who haven't had a sense of humour bypass will no doubt recognise hyperbole when they see it and understand that I meant 'I find that wording very funny'.



How funny did you find it?

Did you laugh aloud, grin a bit and snort, or just _think_ "huh" without any overt expession?


----------



## billy_bob (May 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> How funny did you find it?
> 
> Did you laugh aloud, grin a bit and snort, or just _think_ "huh" without any overt expession?



I laughed out loud. I don't do it that often, so when I say I did it, I mean it.


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I laughed out loud. I don't do it that often, so when I say I did it, I mean it.



Mate, if that's what it takes to amuse you, we should do a night out.

I'd have you in fucking stitches


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I laughed out loud. I don't do it that often, so when I say I did it, I mean it.



Mate, if that's what it takes to amuse you, we should do a night out.

I'd have you in fucking stitches


----------



## Spymaster (May 5, 2022)

At least twice


----------



## DaphneM (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> Kind of weird that no one seems to know anything about this 'concerted campaign of harassment, lies and fraud.'
> 
> If he's looking for damages, he's going to have to prove reputational damage and that might get interesting


He literally says he is not after money…


He concluded: "This was never about money for myself or Martin. Ever. We could have cashed out years ago, never bought the Lost Forest, never signed off a further £70m+ investment this year alone.

"It’s about doing something different and building a business we are proud of and I’m sorry that there are a handful of people on a criminal mission to bring us down."


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> He literally says he is not after money…
> 
> 
> He concluded: "This was never about money for myself or Martin. Ever. We could have cashed out years ago, never bought the Lost Forest, never signed off a further £70m+ investment this year alone.
> ...


You actually swallow all this horseshit? That is so funny.


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

Walking past Marble Arch just now, this sage fella said:

"He has given freely to the poor,
His righteousness endures forever;
His horn will be exalted in honor".

I thought he was probably pissed and talking bollocks but it turns out it's from the bible (psalm 112:9)

It just reminded me of James Watt, a bit.


----------



## PR1Berske (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Walking past Marble Arch just now, this sage fella said:
> 
> "He has given freely to the poor,
> His righteousness endures forever;
> ...



Yeah BD reminds me of the Bible too. 

Turning water into whine.


----------



## dessiato (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> SpookyFrank actually referred to him as "chief"
> 
> Which is outrageously offensive to Native Americans, and comparable to the "N" word in some their communities.
> 
> Disappointing.


Is that true? If so my calling the chief engineer just chief, or any other chief something just as chief is offending a lot of people. There's a lot of professions where people are referred to as chief rather than by full title when talking to them.


----------



## DaphneM (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> You actually swallow all this horseshit? That is so funny.


i was just worried that you hadn't read the article


----------



## nastyned (May 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> He literally says he is not after money…
> 
> 
> He concluded: "This was never about money for myself or Martin. Ever. We could have cashed out years ago, never bought the Lost Forest, never signed off a further £70m+ investment this year alone.
> ...


James Watt and Martin Dickie literally flogged off a chunk of the company to venture capitalists for £100 million years ago.


----------



## billy_bob (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Mate, if that's what it takes to amuse you, we should do a night out.
> 
> I'd have you in fucking stitches



Thanks, but our respective tastes in beer would be an insurmountable difference for me.


----------



## billy_bob (May 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> He literally says he is not after money…
> 
> 
> He concluded: "This was never about money for myself or Martin. Ever. We could have cashed out years ago, never bought the Lost Forest, never signed off a further £70m+ investment this year alone.
> ...



What's your point? You keep posting things without any comment of your own and then acting as if you're just some kind of neutral information service making sure we're all kept up to speed. But the cumulative slant of the things you've chosen to post tends to give the impression that you have a stake in Brewdog, possibly in some marketing or PR capacity.

If that's not the case, why not share some of the negative, damning info about them too? Or, I don't know, actually express your own opinion on the rights and wrongs of the stuff that's happening?


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Thanks, but our respective tastes in beer would be an insurmountable difference for me.



Ah, a "craft ale" man, eh?


----------



## billy_bob (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Ah, a "craft ale" man, eh?



Well kind of, but that's not what I meant. More that your contrarian edgelord trolling antics in favour of Watt are tiresome enough on this thread. I can do without an evening of similar.


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Well kind of, but that's not what I meant. More that your contrarian edgelord trolling antics in favour of Watt are tiresome enough on this thread. I can do without an evening of similar.



So it's not abut our respective tastes in beer at all then?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Well kind of, but that's not what I meant. More that your contrarian edgelord trolling antics in favour of Watt are tiresome enough on this thread. I can do without an evening of similar.


Surely you'd spend the whole evening laughing?


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Surely you'd spend the whole evening laughing?



At least 8 hours.


----------



## billy_bob (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> So it's not abut our respective tastes in beer at all then?



Your taste in beer = Brewdog are not pricks. HTH.


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Your taste in beer = Brewdog are not pricks. HTH.



 Well there's a severe failure going on here, isnt there?

Even if it were so though, you would almost certainly come away from our night out, better informed, and quite probably better looking. Look at it as a self improvement opportunity.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i was just worried that you hadn't read the article


Did you believe him when he said that he hadn't bullied staff too? And when he made up all those PR lies that he never delivered on? Bless.


----------



## DaphneM (May 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> What's your point? You keep posting things without any comment of your own and then acting as if you're just some kind of neutral information service making sure we're all kept up to speed. But the cumulative slant of the things you've chosen to post tends to give the impression that you have a stake in Brewdog, possibly in some marketing or PR capacity.
> 
> If that's not the case, why not share some of the negative, damning info about them too? Or, I don't know, actually express your own opinion on the rights and wrongs of the stuff that's happening?


I get the impression that people are so eager to be negative & damming about them that they fail to read & fully comprehend information provided.

I dont care about Brewdog really, i quite like hoppy, citrusy craft beer.

I think the owner is probably a bit of a tosser but probably not a massive tosser but dont think he is the devil incarnate


----------



## DaphneM (May 6, 2022)

nastyned said:


> James Watt and Martin Dickie literally flogged off a chunk of the company to venture capitalists for £100 million years ago.


i think my point was that he was not interested in suing someone for libel/slander going by what he said in the article anyway


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I get the impression that people are so eager to be negative & damming about them that they fail to read & fully comprehend information provided.
> 
> I dont care about Brewdog really, i quite like hoppy, citrusy craft beer.
> 
> I think the owner is probably a bit of a tosser but probably not a massive tosser but dont think he is the devil incarnate


Which parts about the bullying of his staff and his creepy attitude towards women have we all failed to fully comprehend?


----------



## billy_bob (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Well there's a severe failure going on here, isnt there?
> 
> Even if it were so though, you would almost certainly come away from our night out, better informed, and quite probably better looking. Look at it as a self improvement opportunity.



Well, it's an astonishingly generous offer. I'll let you know if I change my mind.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> Which parts about the bullying of his staff and his creepy attitude towards women have we all failed to fully comprehend?


Maybe the fact that he's now suing the director of a media agency for a campaign of untrue allegations about him?

As I said earlier, this could be a very interesting case.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Maybe the fact that he's now suing the director of a media agency for a campaign of untrue allegations about him?
> 
> As I said earlier, this could be a very interesting case.


But the accusations of bullying and creepy behaviour came from _hundreds of current and ex-employees_ not one person.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> But the accusations of bullying and creepy behaviour came from _hundreds of current and ex-employees_ not one person.


Let's wait and see what the trial reveals.  

That one person is very clever, it's true.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Let's wait and see what the trial reveals.
> 
> That one person is very clever, it's true.


Wait - so you're actually suggesting that the people who appeared in the BBC documentary weren't telling the truth? 
And all those testimonies on the web site were made up with this 'very clever' woman engineering the whole campaign?

Wow.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

Here's how many people signed that open letter to Brewdog. Most have used their real names:





__





						An Open Letter to BrewDog, Punks With Purpose
					

9th June 2021 (Published on behalf of former BrewDog staff) Dear BrewDog, In the last few weeks, we have witnessed what will hopefully be the start of...



					www.punkswithpurpose.org
				






> plus one hundred and six anonymous former staff, and *thirty-nine current staff* (and counting, as of 1st July 2021) who did not feel safe to include either their names or initials. Make of that what you will.


----------



## DaphneM (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> Here's how many people signed that open letter to Brewdog. Most have used their real names:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Lets try to be slightly more accurate shall we.

221 signed the letter 97 of them just used initials or their first name
106 anonymous signed


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Lets try to be slightly more accurate shall we.
> 
> 221 signed the letter 97 of them just used initials or their first name
> 106 anonymous signed


Yes. And? You don't think that's a fucking huge number of people to be accusing a company of creating a toxic work environment?

And since that letter there's been the BBC documentary where several brave employees went on camera to tell of their experiences.

So what's your point? And why do you think some chose not to post up their full names? Any ideas? Go on, I'm sure you can work this one out.


----------



## DaphneM (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> Yes. And? You don't think that's a fucking huge number of people to be accusing a company of creating a toxic work environment?
> 
> And since that letter there's been the BBC documentary where several brave employees went on camera to tell of their experiences.
> 
> So what's your point? And why do you think some chose not to post up their full names? Any ideas? Go on, I'm sure you can work this one out.


i shall await your apology for misrepresenting the facts (i suspect in vain)

i understand, toxic work environment isnt very nice but

hes not the mafia, hes a twat in a suit, hes not going to hunt them down, dont be a silly


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i shall await your apology for misrepresenting the facts (i suspect in vain)
> 
> i understand, toxic work environment isnt very nice but
> 
> hes not the mafia, hes a twat in a suit, hes not going to hunt them down, dont be a silly



This is definitely correct.


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Well, it's an astonishingly generous offer. I'll let you know if I change my mind.



It won’t be one that’s open for ever. As you’ll appreciate, I’m in high demand.


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Maybe the fact that he's now suing the director of a media agency for a campaign of untrue allegations about him?
> 
> As I said earlier, this could be a very interesting case.



I think there’s quite a high likelihood that certain people on this thread will go all quiet when the truth comes out. It’s pretty clear that a lot of the charges against him are made up nonsense, and as we’ve seen on this thread, the haters are experts at massaging the facts to suit their agenda.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 6, 2022)

Its will also be interesting to see the result of Ofcom's investigation into the BBC documentary. 









						BrewDog triggers Ofcom complaint over BBC documentary
					

Chief executive also complains directly to broadcaster about personal attacks within it




					www.google.co.uk


----------



## pbsmooth (May 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Lets try to be slightly more accurate shall we.
> 
> 221 signed the letter 97 of them just used initials or their first name
> 106 anonymous signed



they're estimated to have 882 employees so around 75% of staff didn't sign it... god I hate lawyers.


----------



## equationgirl (May 6, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> they're estimated to have 882 employees so around 75% of staff didn't sign it... god I hate lawyers.


But a quarter of the workforce did sign it. That's a huge amount. We don't know how many of the 75% wanted to sign it but were too scared/ persuaded not to etc


----------



## ddraig (May 6, 2022)

jesus wept, the apologists


----------



## pbsmooth (May 6, 2022)

I was kinda joking.


----------



## nastyned (May 6, 2022)

More on the court case: Conspiracy Weary — BrewDog CEO Files Fraud Lawsuit Against Woman He Paid for Information — Good Beer Hunting


----------



## equationgirl (May 6, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> I was kinda joking.


I know, it's just that some people might conveniently forget the pressure that can be put on people in this type of situation. I personally think more wanted to sign but needed the job more than the grief.

Where the main brewery and bottling factory is located, there's not a lot of other jobs available.


----------



## teuchter (May 6, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> they're estimated to have 882 employees so around 75% of staff didn't sign it... god I hate lawyers.


It seems they have about 800 employees at their HQ, but something like 1,500 employed in their bars.

If you assume that staff turnover is quite high (it usually is with bar staff) then you have to multiply that by some number related to the number of years Brewdog have been in business.

The total number of people who have been employed by Brewdog since it was established must be a few thousand at least.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 6, 2022)

ddraig said:


> jesus wept, the apologists


Or realists.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i shall await your apology for misrepresenting the facts (i suspect in vain)
> 
> i understand, toxic work environment isnt very nice but
> 
> hes not the mafia, hes a twat in a suit, hes not going to hunt them down, dont be a silly


Misrepresenting what 'facts'  you tiresome, dull troll?


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

nastyned said:


> More on the court case: Conspiracy Weary — BrewDog CEO Files Fraud Lawsuit Against Woman He Paid for Information — Good Beer Hunting


Fucking hell (edited)



> The article you are looking for has been temporarily removed pending a legal review after the receipt of a “Cease and Desist” letter from the attorneys representing James Watt in an active criminal proceeding in the UK. This article was about the parties and claims of that case. Pending further legal review and determination of compliance with the UK’s “Contempt of Court Act of 1981” that prohibits potential influence via media for ongoing court cases, regardless of the accuracy and the veracity of the reporting. The article may be republished and/or, updated at that time. Contemporaneous details revealed in the case will be part of our regular and  ongoing reporting, at which time sections of this article may once again be published


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It seems they have about 800 employees at their HQ, but something like 1,500 employed in their bars.
> 
> If you assume that staff turnover is quite high (it usually is with bar staff) then you have to multiply that by some number related to the number of years Brewdog have been in business.
> 
> The total number of people who have been employed by Brewdog since it was established must be a few thousand at least.


My calculations based upon your formulae bring me to the number Twelvety


----------



## equationgirl (May 6, 2022)

Describing a toxic workplace as 'not very nice' is missing the point by a mile DaphneM 

One can put up with a not very nice workplace a lot more than a toxic one destroying one's mental health and actual will to live.


----------



## billy_bob (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> Fucking hell:



So ... 'yes, I did instruct her to commit fraud - but not that one, the one I wanted her to do!'


----------



## nastyned (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> Fucking hell:


The court case that it was strongly implied was about Punks With Purpose and the BBC documentary ... is in fact about a woman he paid to spy on ex-staff!


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

And let's not forget why some workers have been reluctant to be named:









						BrewDog boss accused of trying to intimidate ex-staff over TV exposé
					

James Watt appears to warn sources who gave evidence to BBC that their identities could be revealed




					www.theguardian.com
				




And here's what the union said about it:



> A spokesperson for the Unite trade union criticised Watt’s comments. “Any attempt to intimidate current and former workers taking a stand on systemic mistreatment will not be tolerated,” said Bryan Simpson, an industrial organiser for Unite Hospitality. “We will represent all Unite members fully against efforts by a multimillionaire to silence them.”


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Or realists.



Non-sheep


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> So ... 'yes, I did instruct her to commit fraud - but not that one, the one I wanted her to do!'



Your critical faculties really do need working on, Billy. The sooner we get out for that beer the better.


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

This one still makes me bork



Does anyone else think he looks a bit Chris Martin?


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

That excellent Good Beer Hunting article is rightly getting praised by a craft beer mag:



And this summary highlights what a bizarre story this is


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> This one still makes me bork
> 
> View attachment 321446
> 
> Does anyone else think he looks a bit Chris Martin?



I reckon that's a shop. Looks like a Putin pic with the head changed.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> This one still makes me bork
> 
> View attachment 321446
> 
> Does anyone else think he looks a bit Chris Martin?


It just sums up the twat.


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I reckon that's a shop. Looks like a Putin pic with the head changed.


I reckon if you offer to turn up like this billy_bob will meet you for that pint.

I's not a shop it's from this shoot they did.









						BrewDog founder launches stinging attack on alcohol marketing watchdog
					

BrewDog founder launches stinging attack on alcohol marketing watchdog. From PR Week




					www.prweek.com


----------



## teuchter (May 6, 2022)

Looks like he was intentionally impersonating Putin, as part of launching a beer aimed against homophobia, with 50% of profits going towards relevant charities. Disgusting.









						Hello, My Name is Vladimir
					

Not for gays




					www.brewdog.com


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Looks like he was intentionally impersonating Putin, as part of launching a beer aimed against homophobia, with 50% of profits going towards relevant charities. Disgusting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Or he was intentionally exploiting the pink pound. Edgy


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> I reckon if you offer to turn up like this billy_bob will meet you for that pint.
> 
> I's not a shop it's from this shoot they did.
> 
> ...



A deliberate piss-take then.


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I know, it's just that some people might conveniently forget the pressure that can be put on people in this type of situation. I personally think more wanted to sign but needed the job more than the grief.



Of course this works both ways. If, as seems likely, this is all part of a deliberate smear campaign, it's also likely that people were _pressured to join it _against their will, so that people like you lot could get aerated about it. If that's the case, they've done a great job of taking you all by the nose.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Or he was intentionally exploiting the pink pound. Edgy


You can feel their earnestness



> BrewDog, Scotland’s biggest independent brewery, released a video titled Don’t Make Us Do This, showing them begging on the street and posing as sex workers in windows.
> Their aim was to encourage potential investors to crowdfund the Aberdeenshire-based company
> 
> But the LGBT community have slammed their efforts - and are calling for a boycott of the £238m business.
> ...





> The online petition reads: “BrewDog beer company claims to be “beer for punks”. They claim to be ethical. Yet in their new crowdsourcing video they mock homeless people, trans women and sex workers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...











						BrewDog accused of mocking trans women and homeless in ad
					

A SCOTS brewery has been accused of “mocking trans women, sex workers and homeless people” after a publicity stunt badly backfired.




					www.scotsman.com


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

Just look how much they care:



> On Monday, BrewDog fired four furloughed employees from its Indianapolis taproom location. The former employees identify as members of the LGBTQ community and say they were let go as part of a “change in culture,” though the company disputes the accusation. The person responsible for the terminations was also fired this week, and BrewDog has hired an external human relations firm to investigate the matter.
> 
> Jordan Dalton, one of the ex-employees, shared their account of the incident on Twitter on Monday, noting that BrewDog is “no longer a safe or inclusive space for women and the gay community.” Dalton also claimed that none of the taproom’s non-male staff members were invited to discussions over when the location would reopen. (The business has been shuttered since December 2020 due to the pandemic.)











						BrewDog Denies Discrimination Allegations After Firing Four LGBTQ Employees
					

Four former BrewDog employees who identify as members of the LGBTQ community say they were let go this week as part of a “change in culture."




					vinepair.com


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Or he was intentionally exploiting the pink pound. Edgy



Clever, if true.


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> A deliberate piss-take then.


Just more edgy marketing to push their product into any pint glass they can whilst appearing to be hip and on trend. Reminds me of that Bill Hicks sketch I stuck up a few pages back but in case anyone missed it.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

More here:



> The company released “Hello, My Name Is Vladimir,” a self-described “protest beer” that featured the Russian president wearing makeup and the tagline #notforgays on its label. Watt promoted the beer — nominally a critique of Putin’s notorious homophobia timed to the Winter Olympics in Sochi — with thinly veiled homoerotic jokes. The gag (50 percent of the proceeds of which the company said it would donate to charity) read less radical than retrograde to critics like Oli Carter-Esdale, who later wrote that it “bore all the hallmarks of the same masculinity which it attempted to ridicule through the production of russophobia and pop-art.”





> Just a few months later, BrewDog launched “No Label,” a Kolsch it said was “the world’s first ‘non-binary, transgender beer” on account of its incorporation of “hops that have changed sex from female to male flowers prior to harvest.” Stonewall, a U.K. LGBTQ+ advocacy organization, issued a statement expressing reservations over the product’s language, while members of the country’s trans community criticized BrewDog more harshly for trying to “make a brand out of a community … as marginalized and oppressed as ours is.”



These cunts will jump on any bandwagon, exploit marginalised people and adopt any radical pose if they think it can increase their profits. 









						Can BrewDog Outgrow Its History of Alleged Discrimination?
					

BrewDog, a controversial Scottish brewery, has recently been under fire for accusations of bigotry against women and the LGBTQ+ community




					vinepair.com


----------



## DaphneM (May 6, 2022)

He is suggesting Putin is impotent, haha

This beer is a double IPA brewed with Limonnik berries. We heard they're great for improving sexual performance, so we've sent a case to the Kremlin as we suspect there is someone there who would appreciate a little helping hand.​


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Clever, if true.


It's nothing new or clever though is it? Hicks was taking the piss out of this sort of marketing in the early 90's. It's just droll marketing for gullible customers to make someone rich. Buy this, it will change your life and make you and me better people......Meh! 

I'm pretty sure their Vladimir Beer has done fuck all to tackle homophobia in society and nor was it really intended to.


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> It's nothing new or clever though is it? Hicks was taking the piss out of this sort of marketing in the early 90's. It's just droll marketing for gullible customers to make someone rich. Buy this, it will change your life and make you and me better people......Meh!



That's the whole point though isn't it? People know about it yet they still buy into it and make the bloke rich. 

People being led by the nose like those posting on this thread at the moment who are buying into the conspiracy. Without sheep like these there'd be far fewer millionaires. They are necessary!


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I reckon that's a shop. Looks like a Putin pic with the head changed.



I thought it was Putin before doing a double take.


----------



## hitmouse (May 6, 2022)

xenon said:


> A chief. ha. Have not heard that for years.


When I was in primary school once our headmaster got up in front of the whole school and said "I'm the big chief", which we all found funny enough that it's stuck in my memory to this day.


teuchter said:


> It seems they have about 800 employees at their HQ, but something like 1,500 employed in their bars.
> 
> If you assume that staff turnover is quite high (it usually is with bar staff) then you have to multiply that by some number related to the number of years Brewdog have been in business.


I wonder if there are any factors that can affect staff turnover?


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> That's the whole point though isn't it? People know about it yet they still buy into it and make the bloke rich.
> 
> People being led by the nose like those posting on this thread at the moment who are buying into the conspiracy. Without sheep like these there'd be far fewer millionaires. They are necessary!


Absolutely. It's not clever then really is it  It's as old as the hills in marketing.

I'm not sure I'd actually go as far as to say Watt's that 'necessary' but yeah they need to exist in a capitalist world but the point being made is he/they clearly lie about their constantly debunked philanthropic/altruistic intent as a tool to make more money.

Have we got any examples of JW just giving his money to causes without it being part of them selling a product? Gen question btw.


----------



## ddraig (May 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Or realists.


ah a "school of hard knocks" and "university of life" type


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Absolutely. It's not clever then really is it  It's as old as the hills in marketing.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd actually go as far as to say Watt's that 'necessary' but yeah they need to exist in a capitalist world but the point being made is he/they clearly lie about their constantly debunked philanthropic/altruistic intent as a tool to make more money.
> 
> Have we got any examples of JW just giving his money to causes without it being part of them selling a product? Gen question btw.


Or without them using extensive PR to ensure that everyone knows all about their amazing generosity (even if it turns out to be a bag of lies anyway)?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 6, 2022)

ddraig said:


> ah a "school of hard knocks" and "university of life" type


I'm not quite sure what that sneery post means.  It sounds a bit snobby.  But no, I've never used either of those expressions.

I'm more a "not everything in life is totally black and white" and "there's usually more to a story than just the headlines" type.


----------



## billy_bob (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> More here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It's puerile bros' bantz thinly disguised as doing good, often punching down on exactly the people they're trying to claim they're doing that good for, who somehow never seem to be in on the laughs - with just enough plausible deniability that they can use the usual excuse of the overbearing, boorish bully when they're called out on it: come on, can't you take a joke?


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> I'm not sure I'd actually go as far as to say Watt's that 'necessary' but yeah they need to exist in a capitalist world but the point being made is he/they clearly lie about their constantly debunked philanthropic/altruistic intent as a tool to make more money.



The supposed altruistic and philanthropic deeds _*of course*_ have ulterior motives. They don't even make much of an attempt disguise them. They're a highly successful business, not a fucking charity. That's what the drones here don't get. They want firms to be some kind of cross between Mother Teresa and The Red Cross (until they want to buy a cheap smartphone/computer/whatever; when of course all of a firm's social malfeasance gets miraculously forgiven  )

It's laughably naive but it keeps the thread going.

Actually it's not naive, it's just gold standard, agenda driven hypocrisy.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> It's puerile bros' bantz thinly disguised as doing good, often punching down on exactly the people they're trying to claim they're doing that good for, who somehow never seem to be in on the laughs - with just enough plausible deniability that they can use the usual excuse of the overbearing, boorish bully when they're called out on it: come on, can't you take a joke?


Marketing summed up.


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> The supposed altruistic and philanthropic deeds _*of course*_ have ulterior motives. They don't even make much of an attempt disguise them.
> 
> Actually it's not naive, it's just gold standard, agenda driven hypocrisy.


Sounds like you're all agreeing that Brewdog are cuntz then. What a happy start to the weekend.  

I knew this thread would find some compromise eventually and I'm happy to have helped you all resolve this concerning issue

Now I'm off next door for a pint of 'Vajazzle the Blues IPA' at my local pub's menopause and mental health awareness unhappy hour. There's free sarnies and crazy golf tonight.


----------



## billy_bob (May 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Marketing summed up.



Seriously - from someone who's just made a call for remembering that 'not everything is black and white', and you can't see any shades of grey between Brewdog's publicity stunts that often happen at the direct expense of people they claim to be supporting, and _any _other marketing?


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Sounds like you're all agreeing that Brewdog are cuntz then. What a happy start to the weekend.



Lol. Good try! 

They're no better or worse than any other big business is quite the point. It's just that they don't fit the pseudo-progressive agenda of a certain little clique on these here boards which, let's face it, started with an objection to the use of the term PUNK!



> Now I'm off next door for a pint of 'Vajazzle the Blues IPA' at my local pub's menopause and mental health awareness unhappy hour. There's free sarnies and crazy golf tonight.



Enjoy!


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Lol. Good try!
> 
> They're no better or worse than any other big business is quite the point. It's just that they don't fit the pseudo-progressive agenda of a certain little clique on these here boards which, let's face it, started with an objection to the use of the term PUNK!
> 
> ...


No come on now you know you've conceded that they are cunts now. Close the thread please mods. This saga is over. It's time to heal.

I'm actually going down the posh pub in the next village, next door has all the young kids in for open mic night and there's only so many nasal singing versions of Wonderwall I can take.

It's our anniversary which is another reason why you should declare an amnesty and announce, that as a flat warm beer drinker, your only intent on this thread is to prolong the agony of promoting a product by-proxy that your southern shandy drinking constitution could not handle anyway.

It'd be great if you could pop down topless on your horse and join us though Cunty. The Mrs would love that 

Laters taters


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

Not sure if “the next village” sounds much different to “southern shandy” tbh.


----------



## billy_bob (May 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I get the impression that people are so eager to be negative & damming about them that they fail to read & fully comprehend information provided.



I wouldn't be remotely interested in being negative and damning about Brewdog if it wasn't for the almost exclusively negative, damning things I'd read about them.


----------



## PR1Berske (May 6, 2022)

The two "fanboys" on this thread are usually trolling or messing around or having a laugh,  so that leaves Brewdog with no supporters at all here.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Marketing summed up.


Yet it's something that some people here will defend to the hilt. Weird that, isn't it?


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I'm not quite sure what that sneery post means.  It sounds a bit snobby.  But no, I've never used either of those expressions.
> 
> I'm more a "not everything in life is totally black and white" and "there's usually more to a story than just the headlines" type.


Which part of their well documented abusive staff policies are you unsure about?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> Which part of their well documented abusive staff policies are you unsure about?


Staff policies?

I don't know what their staff policies are.  I presume you mean the unproved accusations made by some employees, which have been denied.

I don't know what the truth is.  

Like I said, it's not black and white.  It would be naiive to believe one side over the other without question.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Staff policies?
> 
> I don't know what their staff policies are.  I presume you mean the unproved accusations made by some employees, which have been denied.
> 
> ...


I'm not sure how much proof you need if you're going to ignore the multiple testimonies of workers - including video interviews shown on the BBC with some women in tears - and still side with the bosses by trying to wave it all out of sight and declare it 'unproven.'


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> I'm not sure how much proof you need if you're going to ignore the multiple testimonies of workers - including video interviews shown on the BBC with some women in tears - and still side with the bosses by trying to wave it all out of sight and declare it 'unproven.'


I'm not siding with anyone.  Nor am I waving it out of sight.  

I'm saying that I don't know the truth.  Nor do you.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I'm not siding with anyone.  Nor am I waving it out of sight.
> 
> I'm saying that I don't know the truth.  Nor do you.


I do know what it looks like when evidence stacks up from multiple workers in multiple locations, backed by eye witness testimony and a credible documentary where workers have been interviewed on camera.

Really find it weird why you;d think all that testimony somehow is equalled out by the boss's take on it - even more so when you consider he apologised for his behaviour in the past.


----------



## lazythursday (May 6, 2022)

That Good Beer Hunting article has been taken down following a cease and desist letter from Watt - dunno if you might want to edit your post editor , possible contempt of court.

Though from the tone of the new page they may be disputing that and are standing by its accuracy.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> I do know what it looks like when evidence stacks up from multiple workers in multiple locations, backed by eye witness testimony and a credible documentary where workers have been interviewed on camera.
> 
> Really find it weird why you;d think all that testimony somehow is equalled out by the boss's take on it - even more so when you consider he apologised for his behaviour in the past.


I'm sure the court case, and the Ofcom investigation, will look into the "evidence".


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

lazythursday said:


> That Good Beer Hunting article has been taken down following a cease and desist letter from Watt - dunno if you might want to edit your post editor , possible contempt of court.
> 
> Though from the tone of the new page they may be disputing that and are standing by its accuracy.


This is so reminiscent of libel cases where the narrative ends up being very little to do with the truth and everything to do with the wealth of the bully.


----------



## DaphneM (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Absolutely. It's not clever then really is it  It's as old as the hill in marketing.
> 
> I'm not sure I'd actually go as far as to say Watt's that 'necessary' but yeah they need to exist in a capitalist world but the point being made is he/they clearly lie about their constantly debunked philanthropic/altruistic intent as a tool to make more money.
> 
> Have we got any examples of JW just giving his money to causes without it being part of them selling a product? Gen question btw.


theres always going to


ElizabethofYork said:


> I'm sure the court case, and the Ofcom investigation, will look into the "evidence".


The case itself will be where clarity, veracity, and moral judgements can and likely will be made. And I look forward to seeing the details emerge about the reality of the relations, communications, and intent behind it all for both parties.


----------



## equationgirl (May 6, 2022)

editor said:


> This is so reminiscent of libel cases where the narrative ends up being very little to do with the truth and everything to do with the wealth of the bully.


Was about to post similar, a shame that it was taken down.


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

Today's bout definitely won by ElizabethofYork . A calm dismantling of the usual clichéd nonsense from, admittedly, very poor quality opposition. As they say though, you can only play the team in front of you.

Congratulations Liz


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Not sure if “the next village” sounds much different to “southern shandy” tbh.


The next village is but the village after that is the Welsh Toxteth then you get in to town apparently. I wouldn't know about that tough because no-one goes into town from round here especially on a Friday night.


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> theres always going to


¿No comprende, amigo?


----------



## DaphneM (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> ¿No comprende, amigo?


Sorry, was an error


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> The next village is but the village after that is the Welsh Toxteth then you get in to town apparently. I wouldn't know about that tough because no-one goes into town from round here especially on a Friday night.


I'm projecting, somewhat, from the NE. All the villages are posh. Mere mortals live on the estates where as in village life you're on the top table. Landowners etc.


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I'm projecting, somewhat, from the NE. All the villages are posh. Mere mortals live on the estates where as in village life you're on the top table. Landowners etc.


To be fair mate most of the villages I've worked in Wales have been rougher than some of the council estates I grew up in in the North West. Not here though, it's posh as fuck where I am now apart from our house and the next village


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> To be fair mate most of the villages I've worked in Wales have been rougher than some of the council estates I grew up in in the North West. Not here though, it's posh as fuck where I am now apart from our house and the next village


Fair point. Same as colliery villages in the NE. I've been on the piss and chatting shit lol.


----------



## teuchter (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> To be fair mate most of the villages I've worked in Wales have been rougher than some of the council estates I grew up in in the North West. Not here though, it's posh as fuck where I am now* apart from our house* and the next village


I bet that's what everyone in the village claims.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Fair point. Same as colliery villages in the NE. I've been on the piss and chatting shit lol.


Anyway, Brewdog and their toxic workplace culture...


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> To be fair mate most of the villages I've worked in Wales have been rougher than some of the council estates I grew up in in the North West. Not here though, it's posh as fuck where I am now apart from our house and the next village



Your gaff's proper posh!


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I bet that's what everyone in the village claims.


No they've all got tiles on the roof teuch and double glazing  I'll get there though.


----------



## friedaweed (May 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Your gaff's proper posh!


It's got character I admit but it was a derelict, haunted, building when we got the keys, as you know. 

Anyway as editor has suggested, let's get back to your newfound sensible disapproval of Brew-dogs, not to be trusted, advertising schizz, and their toxic workplace culture. It's nice of you to acknowledge this on my anniversary. I can only accept this as a gift from you to me on this special day. I thought we were going to fall out over this but you're such an honourable person when the facade of fun and frolics fades.

Thanks Cunty.

Close the the thread Ed once he acknowledges that he and teuchter are secret warm beer lovers and are only here for the wind up


----------



## Funky_monks (May 6, 2022)

Look, he's clearly a dick - plus the beer is shite. 

Can we all just drink better beer in the future? He'll go away then.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

What beer is shite? Punk IPA? It's one of the most popular drinks sold in 'spoons.


----------



## two sheds (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Punk IPA? It's one of the most popular drinks sold in 'spoons.



I've seen Punk videos does that mean they spit in it?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I've seen Punk videos does that mean they spit in it?


Do they play guitar over Bass? Do they flex muscles over Strongarm?
Or just buy stuff they like the taste of?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What beer is shite? Punk IPA? It's one of the most popular drinks sold in 'spoons.


Yeah. I'm not a huge fan of Punk IPA but it's alright and Hazy Jane is very good. I've been in plenty of pubs where I'd have jumped at Punk IPA on tap if it had been there. Brewdog are not Greene King. 

I sometimes moan about the seeming hegemony of IPA, but easy to forget how bad the choice of beer in many pubs used to be. 

As for BD as an employer, a quick google suggests they pay about the same as Greene King. They're both shit employers, like most employers.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah. I'm not a huge fan of Punk IPA but it's alright and Hazy Jane is very good. I've been in plenty of pubs where I'd have jumped at Punk IPA on tap if it had been there. Brewdog are not Greene King.
> 
> I sometimes moan about the seeming hegemony of IPA, but easy to forget how bad the choice of beer in many pubs used to be.
> 
> As for BD as an employer, a quick google suggests they pay about the same as Greene King. They're both shit employers, like most employers.


I mostly drink in 'spoons and my goto drink (if there isn't any decent guest ales on) is Shipyard. If Shipyard isn't there I'll go for Punk. The only reason I wouldn't go for Punk before Shipyard is that it's stronger and more expensive. 
Other than that, If the guest ales are shit and the Shipyard is off... I can go for Punk or Gin I guess.


----------



## two sheds (May 6, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> As for BD as an employer, a quick google suggests they pay about the same as Greene King. They're both shit employers, like most employers.


I think you'll find that their excellent marketing operations mean that this makes them superb employers


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I think you'll find that their excellent marketing operations mean that this makes them superb employers


A bit like when we all started boycotting supermarkets when they laid off all the staff in favour of machines.
We did, didn't we?


----------



## two sheds (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> A bit like when we all started boycotting supermarkets when they laid off all the staff in favour of machines.
> We did, didn't we?


supermarkets employ no staff at all nowadays?


----------



## Funky_monks (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> What beer is shite? Punk IPA? It's one of the most popular drinks sold in 'spoons.


IPA shouldn't taste like lager, so it can fuck off. 

Spoons just buys whats cheap, there's better stuff to be had.

The whole idea of "craft" breweries is a yank idea, in Britain, its trying to sell us something that never went away (although there are less of them). 

Fucking citra hops all over the fucking place.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

two sheds said:


> supermarkets employ no staff at all nowadays?


That's your response as a retail worker warrior? 
Right.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> IPA shouldn't taste like lager, so it can fuck off.


It doesn't taste like lager you mad cunt.


----------



## Funky_monks (May 6, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yeah. I'm not a huge fan of Punk IPA but it's alright and Hazy Jane is very good. I've been in plenty of pubs where I'd have jumped at Punk IPA on tap if it had been there. Brewdog are not Greene King.
> 
> I sometimes moan about the seeming hegemony of IPA, but easy to forget how bad the choice of beer in many pubs used to be.
> 
> As for BD as an employer, a quick google suggests they pay about the same as Greene King. They're both shit employers, like most employers.


Is this a London thing?
Where I grew up you had Badger, King Alfreds, Butts, Moorland, Sussex, Copper, Otter.....

Now I'm in Wye Valley Brewery territory


----------



## Funky_monks (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> It doesn't taste like lager you mad cunt.


"American style" IPA doesn't taste like IPA either, it shouldn't be fucking pale for starters.


----------



## two sheds (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> That's your response as a retail worker warrior?
> Right.





Magnus McGinty said:


> A bit like when we all started boycotting supermarkets when they laid off all the staff in favour of machines.
> We did, didn't we?



So they didn't lay off all the staff as you said they did? 
Right.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> "American style" IPA doesn't taste like IPA either, it shouldn't be fucking pale for starters.


If you don't like the drink, what makes you a fucking expert on it? 
Just don't buy it?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

two sheds said:


> So they didn't lay off all the staff as you said they did?
> Right.


They kept them all on to watch the security guards who watch the machines.


----------



## Funky_monks (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> If you don't like the drink, what makes you a fucking expert on it?
> Just don't buy it?


I do like IPA, we invented IPA and being sold some weird yank, straw coulored version of it should be an insult.


----------



## two sheds (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> They kept them all on to watch the security guards who watch the machines.


I don't actually go into supermarkets now so I'll take your word for the security guards watching the machines, you clearly have experience of this.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> I do like IPA, we invented IPA and being sold some weird yank, straw coulored version of it should be an insult.


Isn't it brewed in Scotland though?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

two sheds said:


> I don't actually go into supermarkets now so I'll take your word for the security guards watching the machines, you clearly have experience of this.


In the smaller ones yes. The bigger ones still have some people working the tills. But not enough to justify what they take from a community in profits vs what they give back with jobs.
Anyway, back to Brewdog lol...


----------



## two sheds (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> In the smaller ones yes. The bigger ones still have some people working the tills. But not enough to justify what they give back to a community in exchange for the profits extracted from the community.
> Anyway, back to Brewdog lol...


Indeed

although you were actually lying when you said "they laid off all the staff" weren't you  

Anyway back to Brewdog lol....


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 6, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Indeed
> 
> although you were actually lying when you said "they laid off all the staff" weren't you
> 
> Anyway back to Brewdog lol....


They laid off all the staff that they replaced with machines. Where's the thread?
Anyway, back to Brewdog lol...


----------



## Funky_monks (May 6, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Isn't it brewed in Scotland though?


Yes, but its "American style", because some bloke started up a brewery in the UK copying an American pastiche of IPA.

IPA is pale for British beer, its almost red. It aint amber (nectar). It doesn't have fucking citra hops either.

All fucking "craft" beer seems to taste of grapefruit because they can't get enough of them


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2022)

Greene King IPA? 

I agree with a lot of what you say, FM, and while I like IPA and sometimes even the grapefruity ones, I also like lots of dark beers. 

Not true what you say about spoons. Yes, they get what's going cheap, but their guest ales can be fantastic. In red beer season, I've had some superb red ale in spoons. They have better beer and a better range of styles than most pubs.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> Is this a London thing?
> Where I grew up you had Badger, King Alfreds, Butts, Moorland, Sussex, Copper, Otter.....
> 
> Now I'm in Wye Valley Brewery territory


I like a good pint of Harvey's. Hard to get nowadays, though, outside of Sussex.

IPA, and US-style IPA has taken over way too much, and Brewdog is certainly an example of that - basically all their beer is a variant on that theme. There's nothing revolutionary about their brewing, for sure. Or their wages. But they are but one of many from what I can see.


----------



## Funky_monks (May 7, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Greene King IPA? r
> 
> I agree with a lot of what you say, FM, and while I like IPA and sometimes even the grapefruity ones, I also like lots of dark beers.
> 
> Not true what you say about spoons. Yes, they get what's going cheap, but their guest ales can be fantastic. In red beer season, I've had some superb red ale in spoons. They have better beer and a better range of styles than most pubs.



Didn't mean their beer was bad, per se, they just buy whatever's going cheap (or they used to) - you can get some decent enough beer there.


----------



## Funky_monks (May 7, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> I like a good pint of Harvey's. Hard to get nowadays, though, outside of Sussex.
> 
> IPA, and US-style IPA has taken over way too much, and Brewdog is certainly an example of that - basically all their beer is a variant on that theme. There's nothing revolutionary about their brewing, for sure. Or their wages. But they are but one of many from what I can see.


Brewdog aside, all "craft" beer tastes of citrus - so much so, that it, as a genre has its own distinct taste. It's not unpleasant, but it shouldn't call itself what it isn't. Its a new type of beer. 

Go through Aldi's (for example) craft beer tin section (excluding the stouts), have a can of each of the tens of beers there, there's more similar than different about them.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> Brewdog aside, all "craft" beer tastes of citrus - so much so, that it, as a genre has its own distinct taste. It's not unpleasant, but it shouldn't call itself what it isn't. Its a new type of beer.
> 
> Go through Aldi's (for example) craft beer tin section (excluding the stouts), have a can of each of the tens of beers there, there's more similar than different about them.


Yes, I agree. Lidl's Hatherwood porter, though, is really nice. And £1.10 a 500ml bottle. I drink that a lot now I've discovered it.

I like a good mild. That's nearly extinct.


----------



## Funky_monks (May 7, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Yes, I agree. Lidl's Hatherwood porter, though, is really nice. And £1.10 a 500ml bottle. I drink that a lot now I've discovered it.
> 
> I like a good mild. That's nearly extinct.


My grandad drank mild - you could only get cans of dark mild down south (Ironically "Trent" mild). 
I like that - "children's beer" as my Welsh mate used to call it. 

I don't think people want a 1-2% beer nowadays


----------



## Spymaster (May 7, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Greene King IPA?
> 
> I agree with a lot of what you say, FM, and while I like IPA and sometimes even the grapefruity ones, I also like lots of dark beers.



Greene King’s IPA is actually one of the better ones. If it's grapefruity, fizzy, or the colour of lager, it's not an IPA. I get the Greene King hate regarding their acquisition policy but their pubs are usually in high quality properties and well kept, and their beers are pretty good. Abbot Ale is one of the best large production beers available in in UK pubs and I'll always grab a few bottles of the excellent Abbot Reserve if I see it on the shelf.


----------



## kenny g (May 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Abbot Ale is one of the best large production beers available in in UK pubs and I'll always grab a few bottles of the excellent Abbot Reserve if I see it on the shelf.


Syrup for piss heads.  I would suggest the Fuller's range is far better balanced.


----------



## Spymaster (May 7, 2022)

kenny g said:


> Syrup for piss heads.  I would suggest the Fuller's range is far better balanced.



I'm a big fan of Fullers. London Pride is my standard tipple and ESB is excellent. Unfortunately they've fallen down the over-hopped, 'citrus' rabbit hole with IPA, and some of the others like Honeydew are bang average.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Greene King’s IPA is actually one of the better ones. If it's grapefruity, fizzy, or the colour of lager, it's not an IPA. I get the Greene King hate regarding their acquisition policy but their pubs are usually in high quality properties and well kept, and their beers are pretty good. Abbot Ale is one of the best large production beers available in in UK pubs and I'll always grab a few bottles of the excellent Abbot Reserve if I see it on the shelf.


Abbot has a nasty aftertaste. Not a fan at all. A well-kept London pride is way better. Problem with pride is it needs to be really fresh. Goes off very quickly and loses its creaminess. Abbot doesn't have any creaminess to lose.


----------



## Spymaster (May 7, 2022)

Creaminess is not a word I believe should be associated with cask ale. Are you sure you’re not thinking of something else?


----------



## kenny g (May 7, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Abbot has a nasty aftertaste. Not a fan at all. A well-kept London pride is way better. Problem with pride is it needs to be really fresh. Goes off very quickly and loses its creaminess. Abbot doesn't have any creaminess to lose.


Never had it around long enough to go off! Pride is one hell of a moreish delight.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Creaminess is not a word I believe should be associated with cask ale. Are you sure you’re not thinking of something else?


A nice foamy head. Pride has that when it's fresh, not when it's not.

ESB is similar. ESB is dangerous, though. Been the start of many an accidental piss-up.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 7, 2022)

If you're after a 'British'-style IPA, I recommend Dark Star Revelation. 

Another dangerous beer, though.


----------



## Spymaster (May 7, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> A nice foamy head. Pride has that when it's fresh, not when it's not.
> 
> ESB is similar. ESB is dangerous, though. Been the start of many an accidental piss-up.



Ah, ok. Never been a huge fan of foamy head. Not in my beer anyway. It’s bubbles where beer should be. 

The main trouble with ESB is that one pint can put you a bit too close to the drink driving limit and it’s hard to stop at one.


----------



## alex_ (May 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Ah, ok. Never been a huge fan of foamy head. Not in my beer anyway. It’s bubbles where beer should be.
> 
> The main trouble with ESB is that one pint can put you a bit too close to the drink driving limit and it’s hard to stop at one.



A huge 99 flake style foamy head ( not from a sparkler ) is a sign of freshness in all cask beer - it’s created by co2 coming out of the liquid which only happens in really fresh beer.


----------



## teuchter (May 7, 2022)

This conversation is boring.  Aren't there beer tasting clubs for this kind of thing.

You guys have clearly been tricked by multiple beer marketing departments into believing that there are significant differences between their products.


----------



## Funky_monks (May 7, 2022)

teuchter said:


> This conversation is boring.  Aren't there beer tasting clubs for this kind of thing.
> 
> You guys have clearly been tricked by multiple beer marketing departments into believing that there are significant differences between their products.


Have you ever actually tasted beer?  😂


----------



## PR1Berske (May 7, 2022)

Cask better have a head, we don't drink them any other way up here


----------



## kenny g (May 7, 2022)

teuchter said:


> This conversation is boring.  Aren't there beer tasting clubs for this kind of thing.


Quite probably there. There are clubs for most kinds of things.



 has more


----------



## JimW (May 7, 2022)

The first rule of beer tasting club is you talk and talk and talk about beer tasting club.


----------



## alex_ (May 7, 2022)

JimW said:


> The first rule of beer tasting club is you talk and talk and talk about beer tasting club.



Pretty sure it’s about arguing that no one else is drinking proper beer


----------



## hitmouse (May 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Ah, ok. Never been a huge fan of foamy head. Not in my beer anyway. It’s bubbles where beer should be.
> 
> The main trouble with ESB is that one pint can put you a bit too close to the drink driving limit and it’s hard to stop at one.


I think the answer to that one is that you need to become a cyclist?


----------



## dessiato (May 7, 2022)

I've just had some wonderful Duero wine. Wonderful nose, rhubarb crumble and custard. €14 for 6 glasses, and tapas. I will miss this in the UK, but I'll get my Brewdog discount in Edinburgh.


----------



## PR1Berske (May 12, 2022)




----------



## equationgirl (May 12, 2022)

I have started a new job recently and have discovered that where I work may have leased premises to Brewdog. I am horrified and will be making a complaint once I've figured out who the fuck to complain to (which may take some time).


----------



## teuchter (May 12, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Can you explain why the advert is "sexist, classist and body shaming"? Because it seems like someone's maybe missed the point a bit.


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Can you explain why the advert is "sexist, classist and body shaming"? Because it seems like someone's maybe missed the point a bit.


What "point" do you think was missed?


----------



## teuchter (May 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> What "point" do you think was missed?


As far as I can see, the billboard is making fun of the kind of cliched beer advertising that such accusations could be levelled at.


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2022)

teuchter said:


> As far as I can see, the billboard is making fun of the kind of cliched beer advertising that such accusations could be levelled at.


I can honestly say that AFAIK I've never drunk a beer that advertised like that.


----------



## billy_bob (May 12, 2022)

I can't think of a beer I've ever seen advertised like that. Still, could've been worse: I expected the defence to be that all those -isms at once demonstrated admirable efficiency.


----------



## equationgirl (May 12, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I can't think of a beer I've ever seen advertised like that. Still, could've been worse: I expected the defence to be that all those -isms at once demonstrated admirable efficiency.


It's tongue in cheek or just a witticism, I expect...


----------



## billy_bob (May 12, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> It's tongue in cheek or just a witticism, I expect...



What, the billboard or teuchter 's defence of it?

(I know you probably mean the former, I just thought you'd have come down harder on it, because you've been consistently critical of Brewdog)


----------



## teuchter (May 12, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Can you explain why the advert is "sexist, classist and body shaming"?


So can anyone explain to me what the twitter person meant by this, or not?


----------



## billy_bob (May 12, 2022)

teuchter said:


> So can anyone explain to me what the twitter person meant by this, or not?


Yes. Do you _really _need an explanation or are you just trying to waste people's time?


----------



## teuchter (May 12, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Yes. Do you _really _need an explanation or are you just trying to waste people's time?


Yes, I need an explanation.


----------



## billy_bob (May 12, 2022)

OK, this is by no means comprehensive or the final say but just off the top of me head:

Sexist: assuming the male gaze, only men drink beer, women's role in relation to alcohol is for drunk men to have something to look at
Classist: assuming audience for ad is poor, and that the poor inevitably aspire to the naffest cliched trappings of the rich
Body shaming: knee-jerk association of size zero with desirability


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 12, 2022)

Loads of advertising relies on sex/sexism. Not really a controversial point that it happens. That they are NOT doing that and having a jibe at it apparently makes them sexist.
The mind truly boggles.


----------



## billy_bob (May 12, 2022)

I reckon they're also pretty well aware that their main drinkership is people who have already tried Brewdog, who know that previous PR attempts have sold Brewdog's beers as very much more aspirational in keeping with the chicks-on-speedboats image. Yes, I know they nominally call themselves punks but remember that risible image (further back in the thread) of Watt and the other guy lounging in Robert Palmer get-up with scantily clad rock chicks draped on them - pure 80s style aspirationalism. So what they're doing is also classist in the sense that they know they're not really talking to poor people who just want cheap lager - they're talking to people who want to try - but not too hard - to appear to have the _realness _and _credibility _of poor people while at the same time being total pseuds.


----------



## teuchter (May 12, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> OK, this is by no means comprehensive or the final say but just off the top of me head:
> 
> Sexist: assuming the male gaze, only men drink beer, women's role in relation to alcohol is for drunk men to have something to look at
> Classist: assuming audience for ad is poor, and that the poor inevitably aspire to the naffest cliched trappings of the rich
> Body shaming: knee-jerk association of size zero with desirability


I was going to say this was tenuous nonsense, but I think it's pretty much straight up nonsense.


----------



## billy_bob (May 12, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Loads of advertising relies on sex/sexism. Not really a controversial point that it happens. That they are NOT doing that and having a jibe at it apparently makes them sexist.
> The mind truly boggles.



It bears repeating - yet again - that no-one's suggesting Brewdog is unique in this and that's why they're bad: it's the extent to which it's at odds with their wish to present themselves as full of punk attitude that riles people. A major facet of punk was the extent to which it aimed to be less obviously sexist than the music industry had hitherto been. (And yes, I know it failed at that again and again but nevertheless, women in the punk movement noted this fact too.)


----------



## billy_bob (May 12, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I was going to say this was tenuous nonsense, but I think it's pretty much straight up nonsense.



And that releases you from any obligation to form an argument as to _why _it's nonsense? Convenient.


----------



## teuchter (May 12, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> And that releases you from any obligation to form an argument as to _why _it's nonsense? Convenient.


It doesn't really seem worth it, but maybe tomorrow.
Basically I wanted to know if there was something about the advert that I just wasn't getting/seeing. I don't think there is, but I'll see if anyone else comes up with anything.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 12, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> It bears repeating - yet again - that no-one's suggesting Brewdog is unique in this and that's why they're bad: it's the extent to which it's at odds with their wish to present themselves as full of punk attitude that riles people. A major facet of punk was the extent to which it aimed to be less obviously sexist than the music industry had hitherto been. (And yes, I know it failed at that again and again but nevertheless, women in the punk movement noted this fact too.)


I'm searching their advertising history. Pink IPA seems inadvisable but doesn't contain scantily clad young women in the promos which is what they're having a jibe at.


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2022)

I must be very unobservant because I’m really scratching my head here trying to recall beer being advertised in the recent past using images of “scantily clad young women”.


----------



## billy_bob (May 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I must be very unobservant because I’m really scratching my head here trying to recall beer being advertised in the recent past using images of “scantily clad young women”.



It hasn't. This is a straw scantily clad young woman that Brewdog has set up so that you can picture her while they pretend to distance themselves from people who sell things using images like that.


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 12, 2022)

Google suggests it's a thing.



			beer adverts with sexy women - Google Search


----------



## dessiato (May 12, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I must be very unobservant because I’m really scratching my head here trying to recall beer being advertised in the recent past using images of “scantily clad young women”.


Have a look at the Fosters U.K. 2017 Good Call campaign.


----------



## teuchter (May 12, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> It hasn't. This is a straw scantily clad young woman that Brewdog has set up so that you can picture her while they pretend to distance themselves from people who sell things using images like that.


So is your view that they are sneakily trying to conjure the image of a "scantily clad young woman" in your mind, without actually showing you one, and thereby associating their product with that image to make it more attractive to you? Is that what you actually think is going on? 

Rather than trying to make their product attractive to you by claiming that it's for smart people like you who don't buy into all that clichéd glamour lifestyle advertising stuff?

I mean I think it's a bit of a rubbish advert but to me it's pretty obvious that it's the latter they are trying to do.


----------



## Dystopiary (May 12, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


>



Fucking hell, they must know their customer base I suppose.


----------



## Dystopiary (May 12, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I can't think of a beer I've ever seen advertised like that. Still, could've been worse: I expected the defence to be that all those -isms at once demonstrated admirable efficiency.


I honestly haven't seen an advert quite as bad as that since the 90s, certainly not on a billboard.


----------



## brogdale (May 12, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Have a look at the Fosters U.K. 2017 Good Call campaign.


Oh OK; not familiar with that campaign...but if Brewdog’s position is look at us we’re better than Fosters, I’m not sure even Spy could spin that as genius marketing 😂


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> I'm searching their advertising history. Pink IPA seems inadvisable but doesn't contain scantily clad young women in the promos which is what they're having a jibe at.


You mean this kind of thing, right?


----------



## bluescreen (May 13, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> It hasn't. This is a straw scantily clad young woman that Brewdog has set up so that you can picture her while they pretend to distance themselves from people who sell things using images like that.


Yes. It's an ancient rhetorical device called apophasis and I'm surprised teuchter has failed to recognise it.


----------



## NoXion (May 13, 2022)

teuchter said:


> This conversation is boring



Feel free to fuck off at any time.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

I truly can't see how that billboard ad is sexist , classist or body shaming.


----------



## teuchter (May 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> Yes. It's an ancient rhetorical device called apophasis and I'm surprised teuchter has failed to recognise it.


No it's not.
You can't just call "apophasis" when you want to claim that something is sending a message that it is pretending not to. You need to back that kind of claim with a strong argument. Otherwise you could use it against just about anything.


----------



## bluescreen (May 13, 2022)

teuchter said:


> No it's not.
> You can't just call "apophasis" when you want to claim that something is sending a message that it is pretending not to. You need to back that kind of claim with a strong argument. Otherwise you could use it against just about anything.


By denying it's using that image to advertise itself BD is deliberately conjuring up that image in the viewer's mind. 
If I tell you not to think of an elephant, do you never imagine one even for a moment?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> By denying it's using that image to advertise itself BD is deliberately conjuring up that image in the viewer's mind.
> If I tell you not to think of an elephant, do you never imagine one even for a moment?


Wait .... are you claiming that arguing against sexist adverts will bring up sexist images in a person's mind, so we can't ever argue against sexist adverts?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

bluescreen, instead of laughing, why not expand on your point?  It's very interesting.


----------



## bluescreen (May 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Wait .... are you claiming that arguing against sexist adverts will bring up sexist images in a person's mind, so we can't ever argue against sexist adverts?


Ha, I don't think that's what BD is doing here.   They are using professional admen, remember - people well familiar with the dark arts of persuasion.

And yes, often arguing against something requires one to hold it up as an example. (Some sick people actually get off on it.) This whole thread could be seen as an advert for BD.

ETA: I don't think - YMMV - that BD are actually intending for the viewer to take them at their word that they are against that sort of ad. I reckon it's a nod and a wink to the mostly male customer.


----------



## teuchter (May 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> By denying it's using that image to advertise itself BD is deliberately conjuring up that image in the viewer's mind.
> If I tell you not to think of an elephant, do you never imagine one even for a moment?


You have to conjure an image of something in order to discuss it. The question is what's the intent - is it to then explicitly dissociate their product with it, or somehow positively associate with it at some kind of wierd subconscious level.

The idea that they are mentioning aspects of naff cliched drinks industry advertising, and accusing their competitors of it, but somehow simultaneously forming a subconscious positive association between aspects of that type of advertising, in the minds of the audience is ultra tenous conspiracy level nonsense if you ask me.

I don't even think the advert works very well. I can see what it's supposed to be doing though.


----------



## pbsmooth (May 13, 2022)

the thing wrong with the ad appears to be the point that it's directly outside another, smaller brewery? but I also can't see how it's sexist, classist or body shaming (cos it isn't).


----------



## bluescreen (May 13, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I don't even think the advert works very well. I can see what it's supposed to be doing though.


See, this is why you don't get what it's trying to do.


----------



## bluescreen (May 13, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> the thing wrong with the ad appears to be the point that it's directly outside another, smaller brewery? but I also can't see how it's sexist, classist or body shaming (cos it isn't).


I'm not really advocating for the advert let alone BD but can't you see that if it succeeds at all in evoking the image it pretends to deplore, the sort of image that the susceptible punter will imagine is rather the stereotypical model on a rich man's yacht?


----------



## teuchter (May 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> See, this is why you don't get what it's trying to do.


My opinion about what it's trying to do is clearly different from yours.


----------



## pbsmooth (May 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> I'm not really advocating for the advert let alone BD but can't you see that if it succeeds at all in evoking the image it pretends to deplore, the sort of image that the susceptible punter will imagine is rather the stereotypical model on a rich man's yacht?


sorry, that's ridiculous. 
"this good thing is saying bad thing is bad" 
"but now I am thinking about bad thing"
"oh... good thing is bad"


----------



## teuchter (May 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> I'm not really advocating for the advert let alone BD but can't you see that if it succeeds at all in evoking the image it pretends to deplore, the sort of image that the susceptible punter will imagine is rather the stereotypical model on a rich man's yacht?


The image that will be imagined is a hypothetical competitor's cheesy advertising poster with a model on a yacht. 
Brewdog think the "susceptble punter" will then go "hey, I'm a smart and self aware person, too right I'm not going to fall for those companies' marketing - I'm going buy a bottle of counter-cultural Brewdog"
You think that the "susceptible punter" will then go "phwoar, look at that model in my minds eye, I suddenly feel the urge to buy a bottle of brewdog"
I think most people will actually go "give it a rest Brewdog, we know you're not really much different to other beer companies"


----------



## bluescreen (May 13, 2022)

pbsmooth said:


> sorry, that's ridiculous.
> "this good thing is saying bad thing is bad"
> "but now I am thinking about bad thing"
> "oh... good thing is bad"


Sorry, I'm not exactly following you. AFAIU, BD plays on its woke image. But it's selling mainly to men....



teuchter said:


> The image that will be imagined is a hypothetical competitor's cheesy advertising poster with a model on a yacht.
> Brewdog think the "susceptble punter" will then go "hey, I'm a smart and self aware person, too right I'm not going to fall for those companies' marketing - I'm going buy a bottle of counter-cultural Brewdog"
> You think that the "susceptible punter" will then go "phwoar, look at that model in my minds eye, I suddenly feel the urge to buy a bottle of brewdog"
> I think most people will actually go "give it a rest Brewdog, we know you're not really much different to other beer companies"


I agree with your first paragraph. I think the susceptible punter will go 'phwoar' and then - 'no I'm not like that'. So they've had the thrill of the phwoar without anyone else being able to see anything but how virtuous they think they are.


----------



## teuchter (May 13, 2022)

bluescreen said:


> I agree with your first paragraph. I think the susceptible punter will go 'phwoar' and then - 'no I'm not like that'. So they've had the thrill of the phwoar without anyone else being able to see anything but how virtuous they think they are.


So... Brewdog are fat shaming simply because they managed to conjure the image of a thin model in a viewer's mind?

If they'd just said "While attractive models" in stead of "While exquisitely photoshopped size 0 models", would it have been ok?


----------



## Spymaster (May 13, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I have started a new job recently and have discovered that where I work may have leased premises to Brewdog. I am horrified and will be making a complaint once I've figured out who the fuck to complain to (which may take some time).


Horrified, I tell you ….. HORRIFIED! 

It’s the end of the world 😿


----------



## A380 (May 13, 2022)

Got to phone NHS 111. I just realised I am on the same side as teuchter in an argument...


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Wait .... are you claiming that arguing against sexist adverts will bring up sexist images in a person's mind, so we can't ever argue against sexist adverts?


What do you think of this sexist advert? Utterly indefensible, right?


----------



## DaphneM (May 13, 2022)

editor said:


> What do you think of this sexist advert? Utterly indefensible, right?
> 
> View attachment 322416


i dont think thats an advert is it?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

editor said:


> What do you think of this sexist advert? Utterly indefensible, right?
> 
> View attachment 322416


Yes, it's horrible.   Why?


----------



## PR1Berske (May 13, 2022)

The kids on "Knightmare" did less side-stepping than some on this thread.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Yes, it's horrible.   Why?


It serves as a reminder of the true mindset of the people behind Brewdog. Useful to take into account when you're judging their latest advertising wheezes.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i dont think thats an advert is it?


Perhaps you missed the fact that they're _holding the product in their hands_. You know, advertising it.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

editor said:


> It serves as a reminder of the true mindset of the people behind Brewdog. Useful to take into account when you're judging their latest advertising wheeze



 Does that explain why that billboard is considered by some here to be sexist and body shaming?   Because I can't think why else it would be.


----------



## teuchter (May 13, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> The kids on "Knightmare" did less side-stepping than some on this thread.


We didn't yet get your explanation of why the billboard advert is body shaming, classist and sexist.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Does that explain why that billboard is considered by some here to be sexist and body shaming?   Because I can't think why else it would be.


It suggests with anyone with half a brain that they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to sexism.
Personally, I've no thoughts about the billboard. It's just more of the same shallow bullshit to be swallowed up whole by fanboys who don't mind the company's appalling record on their own workers, their casual sexism or laughing at sex workers.


----------



## brogdale (May 13, 2022)

teuchter said:


> We didn't yet get your explanation of why the billboard advert is body shaming, classist and sexist.


I think is the most literal interpretation you have a valid point. That said, the advert appears as a pretty shoddy example of hypocritical virtue signalling.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

Interesting tweet


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

editor said:


> It suggests with anyone with half a brain that they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to sexism.
> P*ersonally, I've no thoughts about the billboard*. It's just more of the same shallow bullshit to be swallowed up whole by fanboys who don't mind the company's appalling record on their own workers, their casual sexism or laughing at sex workers.


So you DO have thoughts about the billboard!

You think people and companies should always be judged on their past, not their present?


----------



## brogdale (May 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> You think people and companies should always be judged on their past, not their present?


_time to move on, _eh?

Sounds familiar


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> _time to move on, _eh?
> 
> Sounds familiar


I think it's a valid question.  Can't people/institutions change?


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> So you DO have thoughts about the billboard!
> 
> You think people and companies should always be judged on their past, not their present?


Is this your way of saying that it's OK for grown men to employ sexism in their advertising just because it happened a few years ago. And they should never be held to account over it?_ Riiiight._

And I am judging the company by their recent record. Perhaps you've missed the long list of shitty things they've done in the recent past?










						Craft beer industry accused of being 'sexist boys' club'
					

Independent beer makers have promised reform following allegations of discrimination and harassment.



					www.bbc.co.uk
				











						New chairwoman for beer firm BrewDog in sexism storm
					

The company - touted as a £1.85billion candidate to float on the stock market - has hired Blythe Jack, managing director of TSG Consumer Partners, we can reveal.




					www.thisismoney.co.uk
				











						BrewDog mocks sexist advertising with sexist advertising
					

The ever-so-edgy brewers at pugnacious craft beer company BrewDog have come up with yet another attention-grabbing campaign. Repackaging its flagship Punk




					www.cityam.com
				











						BrewDog chief executive accused of inappropriate behavior by current and former employees
					

Brewdog chief executive and co-founder James Watt has been accused of inappropriate behavior and abuse of power in the workplace by employees




					eu.dispatch.com
				








						The Toxic Culture Brewing inside BrewDog - Liberty Mind
					

We look at the rise and fall of BrewDog, and the toxic culture that led to 61 employees to write a public letter.




					libertymind.co.uk


----------



## brogdale (May 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I think it's a valid question.  Can't people/institutions change?


Very much; they can get worse.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I think it's a valid question.  Can't people/institutions change?


LOL. Your attempts to make excuses for this awful company are becoming embarrassing now. 



> Brewdog’s ascent from “punk” brewery to billion pound “punk” brewery has been marked by a series of risible publicity stunts and infantile advertising that has tipped into discrimination. It has frequently incorporated casual sexism, casual sexism based on “beer porn,” and one occasion implicit, if perhaps mistaken endorsement of Donald Trump into its version of whatever “punk” is supposed to be. Now, days before a revealing documentary, Brewdog appears to have stayed true to form.











						Union and Former Staff Accuse Brewdog of Getting Ahead of Workplace Documentary by ‘Intimidating’ Workers
					

A union has described chief executive James Watt’s posts regarding an upcoming report on the "toxic workplace" at the company as "efforts by a multimillionaire to silence" workers




					london.eater.com


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

editor said:


> Is this your way of saying that it's OK for grown men to employ sexism in their advertising just because it happened a few years ago. And they should never be held to account over it?_ Riiiight._


No.

I'm not saying that.  Please don't put words in my mouth.  It's very annoying, and dishonest.

So .. how is the billboard sexist and body shaming?


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> No.
> 
> I'm not saying that.  Please don't put words in my mouth.  It's very annoying, and dishonest.
> 
> So .. how is the billboard sexist and body shaming?


Can't you fucking read? I just said: "Personally, I've no thoughts about the billboard."

And please tell me how I got your viewpoint incorrect about excusing their sexism because 'it happened in the past and they can change'....


----------



## Spymaster (May 13, 2022)

“I think it's a valid question.  Can't people/institutions change?”


Why would they want to change such a winning formula?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

editor said:


> LOL. Your attempts to make excuses for this awful company are becoming embarrassing now.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I haven't made excuses for anyone.  
I've expressed my opinion very calmly.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

editor said:


> Can't you fucking read? I just said: "Personally, I've no thoughts about the billboard."


And then you gave your thoughts about it. 
Yes, I can read !


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> And then you gave your thoughts about it.
> Yes, I can read !


Once again: I've no idea if the billboard is sexist and body shaming. I don't care. It's just more of their desperately shit attempts to be all edgelord and controversial and get people like you going on about it. 

Given their appalling treatment on workers, why aren't you condemning the company out of hand instead of coming up with endless convoluted apologies and excuses for their conduct?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

Here's a reminder of what you said 10 minutes ago:

"P*ersonally, I've no thoughts about the billboard*. It's just more of the same shallow bullshit to be swallowed up whole by fanboys who don't mind the company's appalling record on their own workers, their casual sexism or laughing at sex workers."


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 13, 2022)

editor said:


> Once again: I've no idea if the billboard is sexist and body shaming. I don't care. It's just more of their desperately shit attempts to be all edgelord and controversial and get people like you going on about it.
> 
> Given their appalling treatment on workers, why aren't you condemning the company out of hand instead of coming up with endless convoluted apologies and excuses for their conduct?


Yet again, I haven't made any excuses for them.


----------



## DaphneM (May 13, 2022)

editor said:


> Perhaps you missed the fact that they're _holding the product in their hands_. You know, advertising it.


i think it was more of a press release tbh


----------



## teuchter (May 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I think is the most literal interpretation you have a valid point. That said, the advert appears as a pretty shoddy example of hypocritical virtue signalling.


Virtue signalling is basically what advertising is.
It wouldn't be unreasonable to argue this advert is hypocritical.
But this is a different charge to the ones in the original tweet though, which several people seem to have jumped on board with, without engaging any brain cells.


----------



## DaphneM (May 13, 2022)

editor said:


> It suggests with anyone with half a brain that they shouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to sexism.
> Personally, I've no thoughts about the billboard. It's just more of the same shallow bullshit to be swallowed up whole by fanboys who don't mind the company's appalling record on their own workers, their casual sexism or laughing at sex workers.


So in order to clarify matters your thoughts are...


editor said:


> *It's just more of the same shallow bullshit to be swallowed up whole by fanboys who don't mind the company's appalling record on their own workers, their casual sexism or laughing at sex workers.*


----------



## brogdale (May 13, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Virtue signalling is basically what advertising is.
> It wouldn't be unreasonable to argue this advert is hypocritical.
> But this is a different charge to the ones in the original tweet though, which several people seem to have jumped on board with, without engaging any brain cells.


I don't know; the more I 'engage my brain' and re-read the advert the more I'm coming round to the idea that by deliberately highlighting the very notion of advertising with body shaming, sexist and classist tropes to (hypocritically) virtue signal their own brand, they are attempting to benefit from body shaming, sexism and classism.


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> So in order to clarify matters your thoughts are...


What's your thoughts on their sexism and their appalling treatment of workers?


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i think it was more of a press release tbh


They hired in half-naked sexy models, one with ripped stockings and the other looking in a bra like she's about to take off her jacket. The two holding the product are trying to take off the clothes of the besuited bosses of Brewdog.  Are you OK with that kind of imagery being targeted at men?


----------



## editor (May 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I don't know; the more I 'engage my brain' and re-read the advert the more I'm coming round to the idea that by deliberately highlighting the very notion of advertising with body shaming, sexist and classist tropes to (hypocritically) virtue signal their own brand, they are attempting to benefit from body shaming, sexism and classism.
> 
> 
> View attachment 322428


I think you may have nailed it.


----------



## teuchter (May 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I don't know; the more I 'engage my brain' and re-read the advert the more I'm coming round to the idea that by deliberately highlighting the very notion of advertising with body shaming, sexist and classist tropes to (hypocritically) virtue signal their own brand, they are attempting to benefit from body shaming, sexism and classism.
> 
> 
> View attachment 322428


Would you reject the idea that they are attempting (hypocritically or otherwise) to benefit from associating themselves with a rejection of body shaming, classist and sexist tropes?


----------



## brogdale (May 13, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Would you reject the idea that they are attempting (hypocritically or otherwise) to benefit from associating themselves with a rejection of body shaming, classist and sexist tropes?


Any business wanting to associate themselves with a rejection of such tropes should be able to do in practice, by example without the need to make that explicit. There's a reason why BD can't do that.


----------



## teuchter (May 13, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Any business wanting to associate themselves with a rejection of such tropes should be able to do in practice, by example without the need to make that explicit. There's a reason why BD can't do that.


My question was whether you'd reject the idea that that is what they are _attempting _to do.


----------



## brogdale (May 13, 2022)

teuchter said:


> My question was whether you'd reject the idea that that is what they are _attempting _to do.


I've made my views perfectly clear.


----------



## equationgirl (May 13, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> What, the billboard or teuchter 's defence of it?
> 
> (I know you probably mean the former, I just thought you'd have come down harder on it, because you've been consistently critical of Brewdog)


The billboard


----------



## equationgirl (May 13, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Have a look at the Fosters U.K. 2017 Good Call campaign.


I remember that one.


----------



## equationgirl (May 13, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i dont think thats an advert is it?


It was, a long time ago. In fact, it started this whole wonderful thread, if you look at page 1.


----------



## A380 (May 13, 2022)

I don’t know why we are getting het up about their advertising. Anyone who’s tried their product knows it’s over hopped sour shit  and wouldn’t be a return customer anyway.


----------



## Dystopiary (May 13, 2022)

Cos a multinational beer company is a micro-brewery. Disingenuous creep.


----------



## teuchter (May 13, 2022)

Can't see where he claims that it is.


----------



## billy_bob (May 13, 2022)

I'm not sure there's much point continuing to debate this - we all seem to be pretty much set in our positions at this point. This is my last stab at articulating why I have such a problem with Brewdog, then I'm buggering off to get drunk on Cullercoats Shuggy Boat Blond instead.

What they're doing in this billboard is more complex and subtle than just either _definitely _trying to make consumers think they reject body shaming, classism and sexism or _definitely _pretending to want to do that while actually trying to reinforce those tropes on the sly. What it does is collapse the space between the two things, which ought to be opposite. It implies you can be both - a man who respects women and an Absolute Legend who's all wahey-tits-and-speedboats-eh-lads. The punter isn't invited to _disapprove _of the guy who's lounging on the yacht with supermodels and a beer or of adverts that rely on that imagery, just to feel that he has better _taste _than to buy into any of that.

And their whole PR self-presentation is geared to blurring these kinds of lines: we're punks, but here's equity; we're top blokes, but here's a litany of staff complaints about mistreatment; we're woke, but here's a load of nudge-nudge-wink-wink advertising that could only have been written by and for Lads. And those blurred lines in turn make it harder to call out shitty behaviour, because a good proportion of those engaging in it _genuinely _believe that they're Not That Type of Person.  So to me, all that makes Brewdog more insidiously unpleasant than LagerCorp International selling gnat's piss like they always have and their advertising ethos more obnoxious any old-style blatant sex-sells ploy.


----------



## pbsmooth (May 13, 2022)

I think you've massively over-thought this and most of that either isn't there or really isn't intentional. I think there's enough shit to beat Brewdog with without having to reach for it to that extent.


----------



## billy_bob (May 13, 2022)

Intentional or not, it's there.

But trust me, I know how advertising works from the inside. Almost always, they'll have gone at least as deeply as that into exactly what every word and every image they come up with denotes and connotes to every possible target group. It's rare enough for an ad to accidentally achieve an effect it wasn't aiming for that when it does happen, it tends to become advertising folk myth talked about for years afterwards - think 'You're never alone with a Strand'.


----------



## Spymaster (May 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I'm not sure there's much point continuing to debate this - we all seem to be pretty much set in our positions at this point. This is my last stab at articulating why I have such a problem with Brewdog, then I'm buggering off to get drunk on Cullercoats Shuggy Boat Blond instead.
> 
> What they're doing in this billboard is more complex and subtle than just either _definitely _trying to make consumers think they reject body shaming, classism and sexism or _definitely _pretending to want to do that while actually trying to reinforce those tropes on the sly. What it does is collapse the space between the two things, which ought to be opposite. It implies you can be both - a man who respects women and an Absolute Legend who's all wahey-tits-and-speedboats-eh-lads. The punter isn't invited to _disapprove _of the guy who's lounging on the yacht with supermodels and a beer or of adverts that rely on that imagery, just to feel that he has better _taste _than to buy into any of that.
> 
> And their whole PR self-presentation is geared to blurring these kinds of lines: we're punks, but here's equity; we're top blokes, but here's a litany of staff complaints about mistreatment; we're woke, but here's a load of nudge-nudge-wink-wink advertising that could only have been written by and for Lads. And those blurred lines in turn make it harder to call out shitty behaviour, because a good proportion of those engaging in it _genuinely _believe that they're Not That Type of Person.  So to me, all that makes Brewdog more insidiously unpleasant than LagerCorp International selling gnat's piss like they always have and their advertising ethos more obnoxious any old-style blatant sex-sells ploy.


Tldr


----------



## billy_bob (May 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Tldr



Ah, but you did


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 14, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I think it's a valid question.  Can't people/institutions change?



Apparently kiddy fiddling pop stars can so 🤷‍♀️


----------



## brogdale (May 14, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Apparently kiddy fiddling pop stars can so 🤷‍♀️


Are you really that bored?


----------



## Magnus McGinty (May 14, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Are you really that bored?





brogdale said:


> _time to move on, _eh?
> 
> Sounds familiar


----------



## William of Walworth (May 14, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Spoken like a true CAMRA man.



This was posted pages ago (fast-moving thread! Apologies!  )

But HMHB are utterly genius at pisstakes   -- I'm a big fan, but I'd never heard that one before! 

**Ridiculously exaggerated pisstakes, obviously!


----------



## hitmouse (May 14, 2022)

Have we had this one yet?


----------



## teuchter (May 14, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> What they're doing in this billboard is more complex and subtle than just either _definitely _trying to make consumers think they reject body shaming, classism and sexism or _definitely _pretending to want to do that while actually trying to reinforce those tropes on the sly. What it does is collapse the space between the two things, which ought to be opposite. It implies you can be both - a man who respects women and an Absolute Legend who's all wahey-tits-and-speedboats-eh-lads. The punter isn't invited to _disapprove _of the guy who's lounging on the yacht with supermodels and a beer or of adverts that rely on that imagery, just to feel that he has better _taste _than to buy into any of that.



Brewdog do do a kind of dual-level thing in some of their advertising. There's an element of it in much of their 'green' stuff. They do some things that might please people with a genuine concern for environmental issues - they do some actual real stuff even if it is then massively over-hyped, or perhaps not carried out in the optimal way. The massive over-hyping of it though is to some extent having a bit of a laugh about it for those that want to. So for customers that don't really care whether their beer is carbon neutral, they will enjoy the provocative campaigns that deliberately oversell the green stuff. There's a small element of nudge nudge, this is all a bit silly isn't it but we've thrown so much at it that the eco lot can't get us on this.

There was a bit of this going on with the Vegan burger thing too.

All this gets attention and fuels threads like these, because doing that dual-level thing is a great way of winding people up. And, it's tolerated by most people when it's dealing with certain subject matters but not others. Just like on urban really, there are some topics where people feel free to mess about (which still includes environmentalism stuff) and others where it's pretty much unacceptable, like racism. 

However - I am pretty clear that this is not what's going on with this current campaign. The reason I am fairly clear about that is because of what the explicit subject matter is - that is, what are they openly claiming to do? They are not claiming to fight against sexist or classist stereotypes or body shaming in advertising. What the adverts are trying to do is reject cliched, scripted, fantasy lifestyle type advertising. It might be that some of that kind of advertising does employ sexist tropes and all the rest - but that's not what they are making their campaign about. The whole point of the campaign is to make out that the Brewdog customer can see through all that, and just wants straightforward decent beer. That this is the aim of the campaign is pretty clear from the wording, as well as from the other adverts aside from the billboard one that started this all off.

Because that's the fairly clear target of the message, the idea that they are presenting an explicit message rejecting something, yet at the same time doing a nudge-nudge, come on, everyone likes this really, doesn't make any sense. The nudge-nudge bit would have to be something like yeah well we all know that really we like and respond to cliched adverts that pretend a supermarket beer is somehow your key to yachts and supermodels. Who wants to be told that, or would relate to it positively?

If you see sexism, classism and body shaming in this advert it's because you're willfully reading all sorts of stuff into it and ignoring its tone.

I actually think this campaign is pretty rubbish by the way. Possibly because it seems so humourless, and takes itself so seriously, which is at odds with what they normally do.

I actually suspect it's a direction that might have been influenced by their recent PR "issues" and an instruction to tread on eggshells for now. Ironically enough. Perhaps.


----------



## equationgirl (May 14, 2022)

I don't think we have hitmouse 

Their superiority complex gets a bit wearing to be honest.


----------



## equationgirl (May 14, 2022)

A380 said:


> I don’t know why we are getting het up about their advertising. Anyone who’s tried their product knows it’s over hopped sour shit  and wouldn’t be a return customer anyway.


Because not speaking up basically tacitly says their strategy of outdated sexist, misogynistic tropes is absolutely fine...

Spoiler alert - it really fucking isn't.


----------



## Spymaster (May 14, 2022)

What a load of rubbish


----------



## editor (May 14, 2022)

Magnus McGinty said:


> Apparently kiddy fiddling pop stars can so 🤷‍♀️


----------



## equationgirl (May 14, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> What a load of rubbish


Your posts on this thread? They certainly are, sir! Remarkable self-awareness!!


----------



## William of Walworth (May 15, 2022)

I'm not going to like teuchter 's post just above (partly because I never agree with DaphneM   ), but I have to admit that I thought there was some far-from-bad analysis there, thought-provoking, anyway.

I probably disagree with some of it as well, but credit where credit's partly due.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 15, 2022)

The company knows exactly what it's doing. As do its more vocal supporters.


----------



## teuchter (May 16, 2022)

Looks like Brewdog's overhaul of its employee deals has been a big success.









						More than 1,000 apply for BrewDog jobs just days after radical blueprint revealed
					

Scots beer maker BrewDog has received more than 1,000 job applications less than two weeks since it set out its “blueprint” for the next 15 years.




					www.scotsman.com
				






> Since launching its blueprint, the firm, which has frequently courted controversy, has received more than 100 applicants a day for a variety of roles across the business, up by a factor of four from previous weeks.
> James Brown, managing director of BrewDog hospitality, said: “We are thrilled so many people are choosing to apply to progress their careers with us. It’s no secret the market is very competitive for the best talent.
> “In launching the blueprint, which included a major equity share scheme and a revolutionary profit share for our bar teams, we believe we are now setting the standard in the hospitality sector.


----------



## editor (May 16, 2022)

Imagine_ actually believing_ everything that goes into Brewdog's press releases!


----------



## NoXion (May 16, 2022)

In a society in which one is required to work, a place offering jobs got applications for those positions? Holy shit, stop the presses!


----------



## billy_bob (May 16, 2022)

Each low-skilled vacancy received an average of around 500 applications in 2021.

So whether this is a 'big success' depends rather heavily on exactly how many jobs they're not telling us were on offer, and what kind of work they were for. If they were for bar work and the like, it seems they may have had half the number of applicants any company could expect for such a role, or fewer (assuming you couldn't plausibly call it a 'variety of roles' if there were fewer than four of them).


----------



## teuchter (May 16, 2022)

The main point of the story seems to be that they claim a fourfold increase in job applications since they announced their schemes to share profits with staff and so on. 

Might be made-up press release nonsense of course, but if I'm going to judge whether Brewdog are managing to do any better at how they treat employees, I'm going to take a look at how real people in the real world react. 

The comments on this thread will be the same regardless of what the company does. We all know that.


----------



## brogdale (May 16, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The main point of the story seems to be that they claim a fourfold increase in job applications since they announced their schemes to share profits with staff and so on.
> 
> Might be made-up press release nonsense of course, but if I'm going to judge whether Brewdog are managing to do any better at how they treat employees, I'm going to take a look at how real people in the real world react.
> 
> The comments on this thread will be the same regardless of what the company does. We all know that.


That presupposes that the claimed applicants were aware of BD’s record as a poor employer or that that had changed in any way. I suspect the majority just want a job and were understandably drawn to the claims that worker shares would enhance earnings.

The retention rates of those employed might tell us something about the working environment, but they’re never gonna put that in a press release.


----------



## equationgirl (May 17, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Looks like Brewdog's overhaul of its employee deals has been a big success.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


How many jobs? Doing what? Are they really intending to hire for those roles, or is the advert just a way to gather data for a press release?

Society is organised such that people need an income


----------



## billy_bob (May 17, 2022)

FFS teuchter, this is like celebrating the great Chinese success story when the _People's Daily_ headline is 'Government great, finds CCP survey'.

And you think the _critics _of Brewdog are the ones unthinkingly churning out the same line regardless of the evidence


----------



## NoXion (May 17, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> FFS teuchter, this is like celebrating the great Chinese success story when the _People's Daily_ headline is 'Government great, finds CCP survey'.
> 
> And you think the _critics _of Brewdog are the ones unthinkingly churning out the same line regardless of the evidence



It's almost as if he's a dipshit troll who disguises his bad-faith arguments in a cloak of idiocy.


----------



## teuchter (May 17, 2022)

The Workers Union seems impressed.









						Brewdog Brews up Fantastic New Deal for Workers. Cheers
					

Brewdog Brews up Fantastic New Deal for Workers. Cheers Craft Beer specialists Brewdog have announced they will share 50 percent of their bar profits with




					www.theworkersunion.com
				




Yeah, I've not heard of this union before, either. Looking forward to the results of everyone's dirt digging on them though. Get to work!


----------



## billy_bob (May 17, 2022)

I've got better things to do, thanks.

All I know about the Workers' Union is that it is not actually a union, it's a limited company - TUC had a complaint to the ASA upheld last year about the way it was presenting itself.


----------



## nastyned (May 25, 2022)

The people behind the independent, supposedly anonymous, workplace culture review at Brewdog gave personal information to Brewdog bosses: Into the Breach — Supposed Anonymous Workplace Culture Review Provided Information to BrewDog — Good Beer Hunting


----------



## brogdale (May 25, 2022)

nastyned said:


> The people behind the independent, supposedly anonymous, workplace culture review at Brewdog gave personal information to Brewdog bosses: Into the Breach — Supposed Anonymous Workplace Culture Review Provided Information to BrewDog — Good Beer Hunting


Cunts subbing out to other cunts.


----------



## PR1Berske (May 25, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I've got better things to do, thanks.
> 
> All I know about the Workers' Union is that it is not actually a union, it's a limited company - TUC had a complaint to the ASA upheld last year about the way it was presenting itself.



Quite

"Issue
The Trades Union Congress (TUC), who believed the ads implied that The Workers Union were an official trade union when they understood that was not the case, challenged whether ads (a) and (b) were misleading
Respons
The Workers Union Ltd (TWU) explained that they were a limited company and commercial organisation that offered employment-related services to their members as individuals. TWU, in their original guise, operated between 1898 and 1929 when they became part of the Transport and General Workers’ Union

TWU were not a trade union as defined by the Labour Relations Consolidation Act 1992 (the 1992 Act) and were not subject to regulation by the Certification Officer (the authority that regulated trade unions). As such, their name did not appear on the list of trade unions held by the Certification Officer. Furthermore, they did not fulfil the role of a trade union because they did not offer collective bargaining to members, co-ordinate industrial action or support or raise funds for any political part

TWU acknowledged that their marketing materials needed to provide clarity given that the business operated in a market alongside trade unions as a direct, non-regulated, competitor. They believed their ads were not misleading.y..e."


----------



## equationgirl (May 25, 2022)

nastyned said:


> The people behind the independent, supposedly anonymous, workplace culture review at Brewdog gave personal information to Brewdog bosses: Into the Breach — Supposed Anonymous Workplace Culture Review Provided Information to BrewDog — Good Beer Hunting


Epic. That's a GDPR breach right there, and depending on the nature of the information she shared, could involve sensitive personal information.

Wiser should not have given her information without her express consent on what if anything could be shared. Brewdog could also be breaching by holding information they did not have consent to hold. ICO will not be pleased. Fines are much larger under the GDPR legislation.


----------



## PR1Berske (May 26, 2022)

Thread:


----------



## editor (May 26, 2022)

nastyned said:


> The people behind the independent, supposedly anonymous, workplace culture review at Brewdog gave personal information to Brewdog bosses: Into the Breach — Supposed Anonymous Workplace Culture Review Provided Information to BrewDog — Good Beer Hunting


Utterly unforgivable.


----------



## equationgirl (May 26, 2022)

Yet again Brewdog demonstrate that they aren't trustworthy. If they did not ask explicitly if they had consent for the work Wiser were doing, they should have stopped immediately and until explicit consent was obtained.

GDPR is not to be fucked with.


----------



## Spymaster (May 26, 2022)




----------



## cybershot (May 29, 2022)

Latest TV advert is fucking cringe.


----------



## equationgirl (May 29, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Latest TV advert is fucking cringe.


I hop I don't encounter it.


----------



## two sheds (May 29, 2022)

cybershot said:


> Latest TV advert is fucking cringe.


That's proper marketing - it's got all of urban talking about it.


----------



## editor (May 29, 2022)

two sheds said:


> That's proper marketing - it's got all of urban talking about it.


One person


----------



## two sheds (May 29, 2022)

It's a start though  won't be long now you see.


----------



## teuchter (May 29, 2022)

Four people already.


----------



## DaphneM (May 29, 2022)

5


----------



## brogdale (May 29, 2022)

genius marketing


----------



## NoXion (May 30, 2022)

Fuck me, are the chuds in this thread still pushing that "all publicity is good publicity" fallacy?

Do they also think that the folks talking critically about Nestle, McDonald's, etc are doing unpaid advertising work?

Because that's where that idiotic logic leads.


----------



## two sheds (May 30, 2022)

Yeh you say that but we've had five people _on this thread alone_ who've now heard of the new ad, so say the ad cost £10,000, then all they need is for each of us to buy an extra £2,000 worth of BrewDog beer this year and the ad will have paid for itself their marketing works I'm surprised you people don't realize this


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Fuck me, are the chuds in this thread still pushing that "all publicity is good publicity" fallacy?
> 
> Do they also think that the folks talking critically about Nestle, McDonald's, etc are doing unpaid advertising work?
> 
> Because that's where that idiotic logic leads.



As hard as the sheep wallies try, it's actually very difficult to genuinely criticise McD's nowadays


----------



## DaphneM (May 30, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Yeh you say that but we've had five people _on this thread alone_ who've now heard of the new ad, so say the ad cost £10,000, then all they need is for each of us to buy an extra £2,000 worth of BrewDog beer this year and the ad will have paid for itself their marketing works I'm surprised you people don't realize this


that would be approx 1 print every working day of the year if you want to pace yourself?


----------



## PR1Berske (May 30, 2022)

Out of interest, who drinks Brewdog here? I can't remember the last time I had one, must be going back years now.


----------



## brogdale (May 30, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Out of interest, who drinks Brewdog here? I can't remember the last time I had one, must be going back years now.


Mrs B got some "lost beer" or something very cheap a while back on the delivery...it was pish


----------



## Storm Fox (May 30, 2022)

I haven't had Brewdog since reading this thread and realise how shit BD is.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

I've never had any Brewdog products before, but thanks to this thread, I might try one.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 30, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Out of interest, who drinks Brewdog here? I can't remember the last time I had one, must be going back years now.



Not for a few years now. And this thread pretty much hastened the disinterest in it.


----------



## brogdale (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I've never had any Brewdog products before, but thanks to this thread, I might try one.


I wouldn't bother


----------



## two sheds (May 30, 2022)

It's lager isn't it? Nasty gassy stuff?


----------



## dessiato (May 30, 2022)

two sheds said:


> It's lager isn't it? Nasty gassy stuff?


No, some is, but it’s IPA mainly. There’s almost certainly one which will suit your individual taste.


----------



## brogdale (May 30, 2022)

dessiato said:


> No, some is, but it’s IPA mainly. There’s almost certainly one which will suit your individual taste.


Yep, the choice derived from a corporate 'jack of all trades' strategy.
Probably best to seek out the real deal from a master brewer.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

Storm Fox said:


> I haven't had Brewdog since reading this thread and realise how shit BD is.


So much for all that  'all publicity is good publicity' line that pathetic staff abuse-ignoring fanboys on here keep repeating.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

dessiato said:


> No, some is, but it’s IPA mainly. There’s almost certainly one which will suit your individual taste.



The trouble is that most of the people posting on this thread know nothing about beer. People like brogdale are primarily Euro fizz-piss drinkers.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I've never had any Brewdog products before, but thanks to this thread, I might try one.


So you're drawn to an anti-union corporate brand who regularly abuse and hound their staff, and are owned by men who creep out women and make them feel uncomfortable in their workplace?
That sure says a lot about you.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I've never had any Brewdog products before, but thanks to this thread, I might try one.



Not a fan of their beers but I'll certainly look out for investment opportunities in BD.


----------



## brogdale (May 30, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> The trouble is that most of the people posting on this thread know nothing about beer. People like brogdale are primarily Euro fizz-piss drinkers.


Think you may have mistaken me for another poster, there.


----------



## xenon (May 30, 2022)

Never drank BrewDog. I am mostly a lager drinker anyway. This thread did however, make me more open to trying ales and get into Bristol Beer Factory stuff , which I like a good many of. Notorious being my favourite so far.


----------



## xenon (May 30, 2022)

Mind you I hate all that wanky , must know about beer to be able to appreciate beer rubbish.

Drink it, like it / don't like it. Beard stroking optional.


----------



## teuchter (May 30, 2022)

I drink Brewdog relatively frequently just because they are so often the only decent non-alcoholic option available. Where there's an alternative, I'll usually always go for it instead, partly because of the issues with Brewdog that get raised on this thread. Of course, I'm never that confident that other companies are much better.

In the end though, if you want to avoid giving financial support to things that cause harm, you're much better off boycotting alcoholic drinks altogether, than a single brewer.

Deciding to be mostly teetotal is a much more meaningful and significant life choice to make, than deciding to not buy products from one particular company, and then make a big song and dance about it on the internet.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> So you're drawn to an anti-union corporate brand who regularly abuse and hound their staff, and are owned by men who creep out women and make them feel uncomfortable in their workplace?
> That sure says a lot about you.


🤣

I'm no more "drawn" to them than I am to any other company.  All companies, by the very nature of capitalism, oppress their staff.


----------



## xenon (May 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I drink Brewdog relatively frequently just because they are so often the only decent non-alcoholic option available. Where there's an alternative, I'll usually always go for it instead, partly because of the issues with Brewdog that get raised on this thread. Of course, I'm never that confident that other companies are much better.
> 
> In the end though, if you want to avoid giving financial support to things that cause harm, you're much better off boycotting alcoholic drinks altogether, than a single brewer.
> 
> Deciding to be mostly teetotal is a much more meaningful and significant life choice to make, than deciding to not buy products from one particular company, and then make a big song and dance about it on the internet.



I see you care nothing for the impoverished and exploited tea farmers, farm workers, of the world. or possibly using Fair Trade as a delusional sop to your own conscience. In Choosing to post about tea drinking as somehow morally superior regards ethics. If not making a song and dance about it's at least an attempted overture.


----------



## JimW (May 30, 2022)

xenon said:


> I see you care nothing for the impoverished and exploited tea farmers, farm workers, of the world. or possibly using Fair Trade as a delusional sop to your own conscious. In Choosing to post about tea drinking as somehow morally superior regards ethics. If not making a song and dance about it's at least an attempted overture.


If you buy tea direct from Chinese family farmers it's pretty equitable as trade goes.


----------



## JimW (May 30, 2022)

Had brewdog here once as it was one of few non lagers available, recall it as OK but never sought it out since.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> 🤣
> 
> I'm no more "drawn" to them than I am to any other company.  All companies, by the very nature of capitalism, oppress their staff.



That's a piss weak response and you know it. You've just read a long thread that details just how abysmally Brewdog have been treating their staff, their toxic workplace culture, their sexism and the creepy harassment of female workers by the boss and you declare that's made you now actively seek out their products?

Absolutely pathetic.


----------



## equationgirl (May 30, 2022)

Not drinking alcohol isn't necessarily a choice. Some of us can't drink alcohol for medical reasons.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> That's a piss weak response and you know it. You've just read a long thread that details just how abysmally Brewdog have been treating their staff, their toxic workplace culture, their sexism and the creepy harassment of female workers by the boss and you declare that all the reason to now actively seek out their products?
> 
> Absolutely pathetic.


As I say, they're no worse than any other company, all of which exist to make as much profit as possible and who exploit their workers as much as they can get away with.

After reading about Brewdog, I'm curious to try their product.    No such thing as bad publicity.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> As I say, they're no worse than any other company, all of which exist to make as much profit as possible and who exploit their workers as much as they can get away with.
> 
> After reading about Brewdog, I'm curious to try their product.    No such thing as bad publicity.


Utter bullshit, If you gave a shit about the workers you wouldn't go out of your way to support such a vile brand.

But let's roll with your piss weak counter argument: can you name all these other 'independent' brewery bosses who have notched up so many accusations of creating a toxic workplace culture, anti-unionism, dodgy sexism and creeping out female workers?


----------



## teuchter (May 30, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Not drinking alcohol isn't necessarily a choice. Some of us can't drink alcohol for medical reasons.


Are you implying that if I decide not to drink for medical reasons, then it doesn't count in my balance of harmful industries that I do/don't support in the role of consumer?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> Utter bullshit, If you gave a shit about the workers you wouldn't go out of your way to support such a vile brand.
> 
> But let's roll with your piss weak counter argument: can you name all these other 'independent' brewery bosses who have notched up so many accusations of creating a toxic workplace culture, anti-uniomism, dodgy sexism and creeping out female workers?


I'm not going out of my way to support anyone.  

And I haven't mentioned other independent breweries.  I've said that in a capitalist society, ALL companies exist to make as much profit as possible, and treat workers as badly as they can get away with.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> No such thing as bad publicity.


And this is just plain ignorant stupidity:









						The Biggest PR Myth of All: There’s No Such Thing as Bad Publicity
					

There is no such thing as bad publicity. Is there? Make sure you inform yourself well about this. Find out the truth of the biggest PR myth of all.




					www.ereleases.com
				












						You think there’s no such thing as bad publicity? These brands would beg to differ
					

Like all of us humans, even the most seasoned PR professionals make mistakes. Sometimes, a mistake can be corrected simply and easily. But every so often, the problem can't be swept under the rug. These problems




					www.agilitypr.com
				












						No Such Thing as Bad Publicity - TV Tropes
					

As the saying goes, there's "no such thing as bad publicity" or "the only bad publicity is spelling the name wrong". The reasoning is that even if people are trying to raise a big stink about how some work is immoral, incorrect, offensive, or …




					tvtropes.org
				












						Is There Really No Such Thing As Bad Publicity? - Fruchtman Marketing
					

On Monday, March 27 many of us read the lead story by JCK and INSTORE online. The story: Spicer Greene Jewelers in Asheville, NC posted a billboard that received coverage in just about every national media outlet possible. If you’re a PR hound, you might...




					fruchtman.com


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I'm not going out of my way to support anyone.


Yes you are. You specifically announced that because of _reading this thread_ you're going to seek out Brewdog products.

And you haven't answered my question.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> And this is just plain ignorant stupidity:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Yes, people disagree with me.  That's okay.

Think about companies who've been mentioned earlier - Macdonalds and Nestle.  No end of bad publicity.  But they're still multi-billion pound industries.    If the bad publicity was so damaging, surely they'd have no customers?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> Yes you are. You specifically announced that because of _reading this thread_ you're going to seek out Brewdog products.
> 
> And you have answered my question.


Yes, I explained that because of the publicity this thread has given Brewdog, I'm curious about their products and will try one.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Not drinking alcohol isn't necessarily a choice. Some of us can't drink alcohol for medical reasons.



That invalidates your opinion then.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Yes, I explained that because of the publicity this thread has given Brewdog, I'm curious about their products and will try one.


But the publicity in this thread is all about their appalling toxic workplace culture, the sexism, the bullying, their lies and more.  To be _attracted_ to a product because of all that is fucking weird - or a sign of approval. Why else would you want to give such a company money?


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Yes, people disagree with me.  That's okay.


Not just 'people'. Actually experts who know what they're talking about and don't just trot out ignorant,  inaccurate phrases.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> But the publicity in this thread is all about their appalling toxic workplace culture, the sexism, the bullying, their lies and more.  To be _attracted_ to a product because of all that is fucking weird - or a sign of approval. Why else would you want to give such a company money?


I'm not attracted to the product.  I do wish you'd stop putting words in my mouth!  I'm curious about it, after reading so much about it here.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Yes, people disagree with me.  That's okay.
> 
> Think about companies who've been mentioned earlier - Macdonalds and Nestle.  No end of bad publicity.  But they're still multi-billion pound industries.    If the bad publicity was so damaging, surely they'd have no customers?



At the end of the day, no one really gives a toss about how companies treat their employees if they're producing products people like. Look at Huawei. Hands down one of the most disgusting companies on the planet yet most of this lot are sporting their phones because they're good value.

Even the people on this thread pretending to care about Brewdog's treatment of staff are only doing it because they have an agenda. Very dishonest stuff going on here.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I'm not attracted to the product.  I do wish you'd stop putting words in my mouth!  I'm curious about it, after reading so much about it here.



Here's your actual words. 



ElizabethofYork said:


> I've never had any Brewdog products before, but thanks to this thread, I might try one.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Yes, I explained that because of the publicity this thread has given Brewdog, I'm curious about their products and will try one.



I'd say you'd be better off trying one of their BuRgerZ.

They're excellent.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> Here's your actual words.


Yes, and ?  

I'm not denying anything I said.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Yes, and ?
> 
> I'm not denying anything I said.


So you've read page after page of stories of bullied workers, toxic workplaces, sexism, a creepy boss making females feel uncomfortable, marketing lies, workers being harassed and decided, "Yes, that's the kind of brand I want to check out."

That speaks volumes about you as a person and I've got no interest in wasting my time talking to you any more because your attitude disgusts me. Enjoy your Brewdog beer.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> So you've read page after page of stories of bullied workers, toxic workplaces, sexism, a creepy boss making females feel uncomfortable, marketing lies, workers being harassed and decided, "Yes, that's the kind of brand I want to check out."
> 
> That speaks volumes about you as a person and I've got no interest in wasting my time talking to you any more because your attitude disgusts me. Enjoy your Brewdog beer.


And yet again you put words in my mouth. 

I suppose it's slightly better than the insults.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> And yet again you put words in my mouth.
> 
> I suppose it's slightly better than the insults.


"I've never had any Brewdog products before, but thanks to this thread, I might try one."

"bvecause of the publicity this thread has given Brewdog, I'm curious about their products and will try one."

 🤣


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> And yet again you put words in my mouth.
> 
> I suppose it's slightly better than the insults.



It's hardly as though you've been ambiguous about any of this.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> "I've never had any Brewdog products before, but thanks to this thread, I might try one."
> 
> "bvecause of the publicity this thread has given Brewdog, I'm curious about their products and will try one."
> 
> 🤣


What point are you attempting to make?


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

This is fun to watch


----------



## krtek a houby (May 30, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> At the end of the day, no one really gives a toss about how companies treat their employees if they're producing products people like. Look at Huawei. Hands down one of the most disgusting companies on the planet yet most of this lot are sporting their phones because they're good value.
> 
> Even the people on this thread pretending to care about Brewdog's treatment of staff are only doing it because they have an agenda. Very dishonest stuff going on here.



There's some very dishonest stuff going on, for sure.

But not quite what you're getting at.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> What point are you attempting to make?



For the last time. You've shown that you want to _actively spend money on the products_ of an anti-union brand. 

And that's because in this thread you've learnt all about how they regularly abuse their staff, are owned by a boss who creeps out female employees and makes them feel uncomfortable, runs a well documented toxic workplace culture and is currently engaged in a campaign of trying to bully and harass anyone who made a complaint. 

And yet that appalling treatment of workers makes you thirsty to try out for their products rather then boycott them and support breweries  with a far better reputation (of which there are many).


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> There's some very dishonest stuff going on, for sure.
> 
> But not quite what you're getting at.



Rubbish post. I demand you make the next one better.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 30, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Rubbish post. I demand you make the next one better.



Bet you drink Pimm's


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

Fail


----------



## krtek a houby (May 30, 2022)

Daily


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> For the last time. You've shown that you want to _actively spend money on the products_ of an anti-union brand.
> 
> And that's because in this thread you've learnt all about how they regularly abuse their staff, are owned by a boss who creeps out female employees and makes them feel uncomfortable, runs a well documented toxic workplace culture and is currently engaged in a campaign of trying to bully and harass anyone who made a complaint.
> 
> And yet that appalling treatment of workers makes you thirsty to try out for their products rather then boycott them and support breweries  with a far better reputation (of which there are many).


Wrong.  Yet again.

I'll explain once more.

In capitalist society, all companies are shits.  They all look to exploit their workers as much as possible.  

After reading this thread, I'm curious about their beer - well, their non-alcoholic beer as I'm teetotal.  

I've said absolutely nothing about supporting them.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

As expected Brewdog have been "flooded" with job applications.

Clearly not everyone believes the propaganda ladled-up on this thread.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Wrong.  Yet again.
> 
> I'll explain once more.
> 
> ...


By actively seeking out their products and buying them you* are *supporting them, FFS. 

And seeing as you insist every business is as bad, I'll ask again:

Can you list a load of other 'independent' brewery bosses who have notched up so many widespread accusations of creating a toxic workplace culture, anti-unionism, dodgy sexism, bullying and creeping out female workers, which have been published in the national and international press?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> By actively seeking out their products and buying them you* are *supporting them, FFS.
> 
> And seeing as you insist every business is as bad, I'll ask again:
> 
> Can you list a load of other 'independent' brewery bosses who have notched up so many widespread accusations of creating a toxic workplace culture, anti-unionism, dodgy sexism, bullying and creeping out female workers, which have been published in the national and international press?



As a result of this thread, I am curious about trying one of their products.  If you wish to insist that means that I'm supporting them, then fill your boots.  I take it that every product you own means that you actively support that company, and approve of their exploitation of their workers?

No, I don't know any independent breweries.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

Anyone who owns a Huawei phone approves of the Chinese regime's genocide of the Uighurs.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Anyone who owns a Huawei phone approves of the Chinese regime's genocide of the Uighurs.



Well obviously.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> As a result of this thread, I am curious about trying one of their products.  If you wish to insist that means that I'm supporting them, then fill your boots.


It's literally what you're doing.


ElizabethofYork said:


> As a result of this thread, I am curious about trying one of their products.  If you wish to insist that means that I'm supporting them, then fill your boots.  I take it that every product you own means that you actively support that company, and approve of their exploitation of their workers?
> 
> No, I don't know any independent breweries.


No, not at all. The difference is that if I learn of a company with such a spectacularly appalling current record, I don't then _actively seek them out_ to spend money with them when there's plenty of better alternatives.  Because that would be fucking weird.

But if, for example, I bought a product years ago and later learnt that they now have an appalling record on workers' rights, then I won't be buying from them again. Kind of the exact opposite of you, really.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Well obviously.



Pretty much all of those pretending to be outraged at BD on this thread have mentioned elsewhere that they are Amazon customers.









						‘I'm not a robot’: Amazon workers condemn unsafe, grueling conditions at warehouse
					

Employees under pressure to work faster call on retail giant to improve conditions – and take their complaints seriously




					www.theguardian.com
				












						31 Amazon Employees Share Their Working Conditions As A Response To Jeff Bezos’ Wealth Continuously Growing
					

Jeff Bezos is the richest person on the planet. As of 2020, the Amazon owner is worth approximately 175 billion USD. However, not all of the 798,000 people at the company enjoy hearing about his success.




					www.boredpanda.com
				






			https://ilsr.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/AmazonLaborFactSheet_FINAL.pdf
		


But they do good weighted blankets and Prime Video is pretty good, so that's ok!


----------



## skyscraper101 (May 30, 2022)

Even if you didn't give a fig about all their well documented toxic workplace practices, why would anyone want to buy into their shitty hipster cod-punk branding. It just screams that they're a brand designed for twats, by twats.


----------



## billy_bob (May 30, 2022)

This 'all capitalism is bad so anyone who boycotts this one brand is a hypocrite' line doesn't stand up to any level of scrutiny at all. Of course all for-profit companies, by definition, exist first and foremost to make a profit, and a certain absolutist anti-capitalist view would be that they're therefore all part of what's wrong with the world. But it's plainly nonsense to say that they all go about making that profit in identically bad ways. And it's just lazy to say 'they're all abusing their staff so what's the difference if I don't take any notice of explicit evidence that _this _company is doing it?' - it's effectively just admitting without admitting it that all this ethics stuff is too much for you to think about so you're not going to bother with it at all.

I _don't_ buy Huawei products, because of the company's links to the Chinese state and role in the genocide of the Uyghurs. No doubt many people who _do _buy them know little to nothing about those reasons not to - you could argue they bloody should, but that's not the same as saying they're actively choosing to support something they know is doing harm. Many more people do know about those reasons not to buy Huawei but do it anyway. Are they culpable? To some extent yes - there are other tech companies making the same products. If this thread was about Huawei and those customers were on here defending their choice, I'd try to convince them with information about what Huawei is actually up to, but in the end it's their choice. But don't fucking dress it up as a consequence-free choice without ethical implications just because 'they're all as bad as each other'. That's pathetic.

Oh, and I don't buy from Amazon either. No doubt the same people calling anyone who does buy from Amazon but not from BD a hypocrite will be along any minute to call me a virtue-signalling wanker for mentioning that


----------



## ddraig (May 30, 2022)

^^ that


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Oh, and I don't buy from Amazon either. No doubt the same people calling anyone who does so while criticising BD a hypocrite will be along any minute to call me a virtue-signalling wanker for mentioning that



Nah. It just makes you slightly less of a hypocrite than many others posting on this thread


----------



## Cerv (May 30, 2022)

out yesterday evening I spotted cans of Brewdog's Hoppy Xmas in the bar back fridge. that have presumably not shifted in 6 months.
from which we can conclude consumer boycott due to their shitty business practices is going strong, and so the company is doomed.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 30, 2022)

I hope so.


----------



## billy_bob (May 30, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Nah. It just makes you slightly less of a hypocrite than many others posting on this thread



Actually, the point I haven't quite leant on as much as I meant to above is that absolutism itself is a lazy excuse for doing nothing.

Boycotting _some _terrible companies and supporting decent ones instead _is _better than doing nothing, even if there are many other terrible companies you're not boycotting. Boycotting Amazon is far from impossible, but it _is _increasingly difficult given their near monopoly in so many areas, and one of the big reasons I can avoid them is that I can afford to pay a couple of quid more on most things I buy purely to get the same item from somewhere less shit - not everyone can. But Brewdog products aren't particularly cheap anyway and it's easy enough to avoid them without being out of pocket. So if you boycott Brewdog and not Amazon, maybe you're not 100% ethical in every choice you make*, but you're still incrementally improving the situation more than someone who glibly dismisses the point of boycotting anyone because they're supposedly all as bad as each other.

* oh, and boycotting a company's products obviously isn't the only method of trying to work towards a better model of doing business. Plenty of people who don't boycott Amazon are doing loads more than I am in other ways to challenge their shitty practices.


----------



## Serge Forward (May 30, 2022)

Why oh why do workers ever go on strike? After all, don't striking workers know that under capitalism, all bosses are bad? So just carry on, do nowt and knuckle under, cos that's capitalism. That's the logic if ElizabethofYork - only I don't think it is really, it's more likely a load of shit trolling.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I _don't_ buy Huawei products, because of the company's links to the Chinese state and role in the genocide of the Uyghurs. No doubt many people who _do _buy them know little to nothing about those reasons not to - you could argue they bloody should, but that's not the same as saying they're actively choosing to support something they know is doing harm. Many more people do know about those reasons not to buy Huawei but do it anyway. Are they culpable? To some extent yes - there are other tech companies making the same products. If this thread was about Huawei and those customers were on here defending their choice, I'd try to convince them with information about what Huawei is actually up to, but in the end it's their choice. But don't fucking dress it up as a consequence-free choice without ethical implications just because 'they're all as bad as each other'. That's pathetic.
> 
> Oh, and I don't buy from Amazon either. No doubt the same people calling anyone who does buy from Amazon but not from BD a hypocrite will be along any minute to call me a virtue-signalling wanker for mentioning that


Well said.

I'll never buy a Huawei product again, but anyone trying to establish some sort of _holier than thou _moral high ground because they use an Apple/Samsung whatever smartphone is a blazing hypocrite. They're all knee deep in worker exploitation, environmental rape and abuse.

Anyone using mainstream tech gear has got blood on their hands, and we're all guilty as fuck one way or another, but until I see people ignoring those concerns and urging people to buy those products because they're a _cool happening punky brand_ or whatever, the comparisons are totally erroneous.


----------



## JimW (May 30, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Actually, the point I haven't quite leant on as much as I meant to above is that absolutism itself is a lazy excuse for doing nothing.
> 
> Boycotting _some _terrible companies and supporting decent ones instead _is _better than doing nothing, even if there are many other terrible companies you're not boycotting. Boycotting Amazon is far from impossible, but it _is _increasingly difficult given their near monopoly in so many areas, and one of the big reasons I can avoid them is that I can afford to pay a couple of quid more on most things I buy purely to get the same item from somewhere less shit - not everyone can. But Brewdog products aren't particularly cheap anyway and it's easy enough to avoid them without being out of pocket. So if you boycott Brewdog and not Amazon, maybe you're not 100% ethical in every choice you make*, but you're still incrementally improving the situation more than someone who glibly dismisses the point of boycotting anyone because they're supposedly all as bad as each other.
> 
> * oh, and boycotting a company's products obviously isn't the only method of trying to work towards a better model of doing business. Plenty of people who don't boycott Amazon are doing loads more I am in other ways to challenge their shitty practices.


Yes, exactly. A boycott is an attempt to make things a bit better within the framework of capitalism as it's about all we have at the minute, no-one ever said it was a substitute for turning the whole lot over as is obviously needed.


----------



## editor (May 30, 2022)

At last. Some sensible discussion on this thread, notably none of it coming from the hollering fanboys.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Actually, the point I haven't quite leant on as much as I meant to above is that absolutism itself is a lazy excuse for doing nothing.
> 
> Boycotting _some _terrible companies and supporting decent ones instead _is _better than doing nothing, even if there are many other terrible companies you're not boycotting. Boycotting Amazon is far from impossible, but it _is _increasingly difficult given their near monopoly in so many areas, and one of the big reasons I can avoid them is that I can afford to pay a couple of quid more on most things I buy purely to get the same item from somewhere less shit - not everyone can. But Brewdog products aren't particularly cheap anyway and it's easy enough to avoid them without being out of pocket. So if you boycott Brewdog and not Amazon, maybe you're not 100% ethical in every choice you make*, but you're still incrementally improving the situation more than someone who glibly dismisses the point of boycotting anyone because they're supposedly all as bad as each other.
> 
> * oh, and boycotting a company's products obviously isn't the only method of trying to work towards a better model of doing business. Plenty of people who don't boycott Amazon are doing loads more I am in other ways to challenge their shitty practices.



This is obviously arrant nonsense.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

My word, there's some bollocks being trotted-out on this page!


----------



## billy_bob (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> At last. Some sensible discussion on this thread, notably none of it coming from the hollering fanboys.





Spymaster said:


> This is obviously arrant nonsense. [end of argument]



Proving editor 's point there, thanks.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Proving editor 's point there, thanks.



See what I mean? Thoughtless guff.


----------



## JimW (May 30, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> My word, there's some bollocks being trotted-out on this page!


Take your contrast with Huawei - your chances on impacting a multinational backed by the Chinese state are minimal and still less through that influencing that state's policy in its ethnic minority regions; by contrast, a hipster beer company operating in an environment where reputation will impact their bottom line is much more susceptible, which is why they're green washing away and commissioning fake unions to absolve them.


----------



## billy_bob (May 30, 2022)

Spymasterof course you think it's guff - that's to be expected - but it's not thoughtless. Your content-free smirking much better fits that bill.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 30, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Boycotting Amazon is far from impossible, but it _is _increasingly difficult given their near monopoly in so many areas, and one of the big reasons I can avoid them is that I can afford to pay a couple of quid more on most things I buy



I'm going slightly off topic here, but recently I have taken to finding out who is selling on amazon and offering them a deal outside of amazon. Quite often they have a physical store (or at least an Internet one) and are selling the same products, just not as easy to search for as amazon. I assume they are paying amazon fees. I called someone recently, asked if they would do something £10 cheaper than normal price if I didn't go though amazon and didn't get the 'free' amazon postage (collected it myself).
Ideally I wouldn't be asking for £10 off I suppose, but I think we both came out of it better off than an amazon sale.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> Why oh why do workers ever go on strike? After all, don't striking workers know that under capitalism, all bosses are bad? So just carry on, do nowt and knuckle under, cos that's capitalism. That's the logic if ElizabethofYork - only I don't think it is really, it's more likely a load of shit trolling.


That's not my logic at all.  In the face of capitalism it's extremely important to be able to strike and take other industrial action.


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## teuchter (May 30, 2022)

Please can I have some advice on the most ethically sound course of action, if I go into my local shop wanting some non alcoholic beer and the choice is between Brewdog's Nanny State (which I quite like) and Beck's Blue (which is slightly better than nothing).

I have to weigh up my definite preference for one beer over the other, against an essentially unknown difference in degrees of terribleness between the two companies.


----------



## JimW (May 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Please can I have some advice on the most ethically sound course of action, if I go into my local shop wanting some non alcoholic beer and the choice is between Brewdog's Nanny State (which I quite like) and Beck's Blue (which is slightly better than nothing).
> 
> I have to weigh up my definite preference for one beer over the other, against an essentially unknown difference in degrees of terribleness between the two companies.


Glass of water. Preferably rain you've collected yourself.


----------



## teuchter (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> That's not my logic at all.  In the face of capitalism it's extremely important to be able to strike and take other industrial action.


Indeed. I don't think Serge Forward was employing much logic at all in that post.


----------



## Spymaster (May 30, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> That's not my logic at all.  In the face of capitalism it's extremely important to be able to strike and take other industrial action.



He's spouting testicles. You can always tell the degree of hogwash of a post by who "likes" it, and that one's got some proper doozies on it!


----------



## ElizabethofYork (May 30, 2022)

editor said:


> At last. Some sensible discussion on this thread, notably none of it coming from the hollering fanboys.


"Sensible"


----------



## billy_bob (May 30, 2022)

Come on, trolls. Can't we at least have bad-faith arguments that you've taken the trouble to form into sentences, instead of all this sniggering like the kids at the back who think calling everyone and everything lame proves how worldly they are? I don't think anyone's feeling quite as cut down to size by these cry-laughing emojis as you presumably think they are.


----------



## krtek a houby (May 30, 2022)

Hmmm.

Really have to wonder what some of the participants on this thread are doing on urban.

It's all good letting off steam and having a wheeze,  but there's something tired, broken and desperate about the forced hilarity and/or doubling down from some here.

It's akin to the trolling on FB or Twitter. It's gone beyond piss taking.

Cliché, but urban is better than this.


----------



## Funky_monks (May 30, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I drink Brewdog relatively frequently just because they are so often the only decent non-alcoholic option available. Where there's an alternative, I'll usually always go for it instead, partly because of the issues with Brewdog that get raised on this thread. Of course, I'm never that confident that other companies are much better.
> 
> In the end though, if you want to avoid giving financial support to things that cause harm, you're much better off boycotting alcoholic drinks altogether, than a single brewer.
> 
> Deciding to be mostly teetotal is a much more meaningful and significant life choice to make, than deciding to not buy products from one particular company, and then make a big song and dance about it on the internet.


Ah, some neo puritanism, just what we need.

Perhaps you'd like to don a hairshirt whilst you are there....


----------



## teuchter (May 30, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> Ah, some neo puritanism, just what we need.
> 
> Perhaps you'd like to don a hairshirt whilst you are there....


I don't really understand how any of this has got anything to do with Puritanism. Can you explain?


----------



## Serge Forward (May 31, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> That's not my logic at all.  In the face of capitalism it's extremely important to be able to strike and take other industrial action.


So shit trolling it is then.


----------



## Serge Forward (May 31, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> He's spouting testicles. You can always tell the degree of hogwash of a post by who "likes" it, and that one's got some proper doozies on it!


Playing the man, not the ball... guilt by association, etc, etc. You've got nothing beyond your usual tired old wank.


----------



## Serge Forward (May 31, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Indeed. I don't think Serge Forward was employing much logic at all in that post.


As you're using the logic of Fraggle Rock, I'll wear your criticism like a crown


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is obviously arrant nonsense.



Oh go on then, how so?


----------



## equationgirl (May 31, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Rubbish post. I demand you make the next one better.


We've been demanding adequate posts from you for years but you've never delivered, so not quite sure why you think you're entitled to demand more from everyone else...


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## ElizabethofYork (May 31, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> So shit trolling it is then.


Explain please.


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## Serge Forward (May 31, 2022)

Shit, as in: crap, rubbish, etc. Trolling, as in: on a wind up, unpleasant, being a dick on the internet, etc.


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## ElizabethofYork (May 31, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> Shit, as in: crap, rubbish, etc. Trolling, as in: on a wind up, unpleasant, being a dick on the internet, etc.


Thank you.

It's a shame that you think that anyone who disagrees with the majority is a troll, a dick, unpleasant, crap and rubbish.

I've just given my opinions.  

Shame you seem unable to discuss them and prefer to hurl insults.

Have a good day.


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## Spymaster (May 31, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> We've been demanding adequate posts from you for years but you've never delivered …



It’s true that my posts have always required a higher level of intelligence on the part of the reader than most. I’ve tried making them “adequate” as per your demands, but it was taking too long to draw the pictures.


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## Pickman's model (May 31, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> As you're using the logic of Fraggle Rock, I'll wear your criticism like a crown


his logic doesn't reach the level of fraggle rock


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## Pickman's model (May 31, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It’s true that my posts have always required a higher level of intelligence on the part of the reader than most. I’ve tried making them “adequate” as per your demands, but it was taking too long to draw the pictures.


you need the skills of someone like tony hart


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## Spymaster (May 31, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> you need the skills of someone like tony hart




A crueller corespondent may have suggested Rolph Harris!


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## AverageJoe (May 31, 2022)

Just order your Brewdog from Amazon and be done with it.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Please can I have some advice on the most ethically sound course of action, if I go into my local shop wanting some non alcoholic beer and the choice is between Brewdog's Nanny State (which I quite like) and Beck's Blue (which is slightly better than nothing).
> 
> I have to weigh up my definite preference for one beer over the other, against an essentially unknown difference in degrees of terribleness between the two companies.


Personally Brewdog would be off the table for me. . . as would becks blue because it's horrible. 
I don't love drinking non alcoholic beer more than I hate giving my money to cunts. 
It's a relatively easy toss up/equation you can apply to most things.


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## Spymaster (May 31, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Personally Brewdog would be off the table for me. . . as would becks blue because it's horrible.
> I don't love drinking non alcoholic beer more than I hate giving my money to cunts.
> It's a relatively easy toss up/equation you can apply to most things.



A slightly more principled stand than others on this thread but where do you draw the line as to what cunts you _are_ prepared to give your money to? 

Would you for example, be happy to support Amazon's dangerous workplace practices by giving your money to them, whilst feeling that Brewdog's appropriation of "punk" is beyond the pale?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (May 31, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Pretty much all of those pretending to be outraged at BD on this thread have mentioned elsewhere that they are Amazon customers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


When I ordered a book online the other day, I thought, no I'll not use Amazon this time, I'll use Blackwell's instead. But then I looked them up and Amazon actually pay people more money than Blackwell's, who appear to be a shit employer. And I can testify after working at Books Etc and Borders in the past that they were also appalling employers. Most booksellers are. 

So what do you do? It's all very well saying 'go to an independent shop and pay full price', but there aren't any near me (and they may very well also be shit employers). 

You can apply this logic to just about any product. That's the problem with the 'blame the consumer' approach.


----------



## Spymaster (May 31, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> When I ordered a book online the other day, I thought, no I'll not use Amazon this time, I'll use Blackwell's instead. But then I looked them up and Amazon actually pay people more money than Blackwell's, who appear to be a shit employer. And I can testify after working at Books Etc and Borders in the past that they were also appalling employers. Most booksellers are.
> 
> So what do you do? It's all very well saying 'go to an independent shop and pay full price', but there aren't any near me (and they may very well also be shit employers).
> 
> You can apply this logic to just about any product. That's the problem with the 'blame the consumer' approach.



You have to remember that you are far more intelligent than the primary actors on this thread (myself excluded, of course) who aren't thinking the same way at all, and will forgive genocide and lethal workplace practices as quickly as you can say "weighted blanket" or "nice cameraphone".


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Would you for example, be happy to support Amazon's dangerous workplace practices by giving your money to them, whilst feeling that Brewdog's appropriation of "punk" is beyond the pale?


Case by case basis, how much do I need or want something against how much of a cunt  (or not) the provider is. It's very very easy. 

. . . and why are you comically playing down brew dogs 'crimes' to "the appropriation of the word punk"?  You obviously can't be dumb enough to think that's the even remotely the issue people have with them on this thread? If you have to wilfully misrepresent the reasons for other peoples stance on this issue then you clearly don't have a solid argument.


----------



## teuchter (May 31, 2022)

I can't agree it's "very very easy" especially if you are trying to compare one company that's attracted a lot of attention and you happen to have read up on, with another that you know nothing about but have a reasonable suspicion that with enough digging you'd find engaged in some similarly objectionable practices.


----------



## nastyned (May 31, 2022)

I case you missed it more appalling stuff from the brewdog boss is back online: Conspiracy Weary — BrewDog CEO Files Fraud Lawsuit Against Woman He Paid for Information — Good Beer Hunting


----------



## William of Walworth (May 31, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> *It's a shame that you think that anyone who disagrees with the majority is a troll*, a dick, unpleasant, crap and rubbish.


Spot on, for reminding this thread _exactly!_ what an utter troll's definition of a troll is!


----------



## Pickman's model (May 31, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> When I ordered a book online the other day, I thought, no I'll not use Amazon this time, I'll use Blackwell's instead. But then I looked them up and Amazon actually pay people more money than Blackwell's, who appear to be a shit employer. And I can testify after working at Books Etc and Borders in the past that they were also appalling employers. Most booksellers are.
> 
> So what do you do? It's all very well saying* 'go to an independent shop and pay full price', but there aren't any near me* (and they may very well also be shit employers).
> 
> You can apply this logic to just about any product. That's the problem with the 'blame the consumer' approach.


it's sheer laziness. you can order books and ask them to be posted on to you - it's not a big ask in this day and age.


----------



## William of Walworth (May 31, 2022)

nastyned said:


> I case you missed it more appalling stuff from the brewdog boss is back online: Conspiracy Weary — BrewDog CEO Files Fraud Lawsuit Against Woman He Paid for Information — Good Beer Hunting


Kinnell! As complicated conspiracies and associated thories go, that's pretty damned involved! 

I couldn't even read the entire of that article .... will attempt to again later, though!


----------



## PR1Berske (May 31, 2022)




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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I can't agree it's "very very easy" especially if you are trying to compare one company that's attracted a lot of attention and you happen to have read up on, with another that you know nothing about but have a reasonable suspicion that with enough digging you'd find engaged in some similarly objectionable practices.


It's extremely easy. I'm not judging it against another company, I'm judging it against my need/want  for it based on what I know. 
It was you who was judging one product against another. 
I won't buy brew dog because they are arseholes. Easy.  Becks? I have no idea, but I also won't buy their product because it's horrible. I don't need to have non alcoholic beer so bad that I will drink a shit one or one made by a shit company.


----------



## teuchter (May 31, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> It's extremely easy. I'm not judging it against another company, I'm judging it against my need/want  for it based on what I know.
> It was you who was judging one product against another.
> I won't buy brew dog because they are arseholes. Easy.  Becks? I have no idea, but I also won't buy their product because it's horrible. I don't need to have non alcoholic beer so bad that I will drink a shit one or one made by a shit company.


I think we can agree it's easy if it's not something you really want in the first place. That's not the scenario presented in my initial question though.


----------



## Spymaster (May 31, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I think we can agree it's easy if it's not something you really want in the first place.



Innit?  

I'm boycotting Raytheon Missile Systems.


----------



## xenon (May 31, 2022)

Wait, I got it.

So as a smart phone owner, until you mine and process the raw materials, fabricate the chips, build, assemble, write the firmware, OS, apps, connect to an ethical network provider etc. You can't slag off any company for their bad work practises and or refuse to give them money based on same, because hypocrisy.  Really, you can only legitimately dislike a brewery for reasons of taste. 

I think you've overreached a bit Spy.


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## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I think we can agree it's easy if it's not something you really want in the first place. That's not the scenario presented in my initial question though.


I never said I didn't want non alcoholic beer. It's an easy choice because Brewdog is off the table. My equation works for EVERY situation.
What don't you understand, and why doesn't it work for you? 
Do you want Brewdog beer more than you think they are cunts? If so, make your excuses for them and fill your boots.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2022)

nastyned said:


> I case you missed it more appalling stuff from the brewdog boss is back online: Conspiracy Weary — BrewDog CEO Files Fraud Lawsuit Against Woman He Paid for Information — Good Beer Hunting


So there was no legal basis for that bullying twat at Brewdog to try and get it taken down.



> _Editor’s note (5/31/2022): This article was originally published on May 6, 2022. It was temporarily unpublished after receiving a cease and desist letter from James Watt’s attorneys. The story is now republished after thorough legal review by our U.K.-based litigators specializing in media and communications issues._


----------



## teuchter (May 31, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I never said I didn't want non alcoholic beer. It's an easy choice because Brewdog is off the table. My equation works for EVERY situation.
> What don't you understand, and why doesn't it work for you?
> Do you want Brewdog beer more than you think they are cunts? If so, make your excuses for them and fill your boots.



The premise is that I want an AF beer of some kind, and there are two options. I much prefer the Brewdog option to drink but I might settle for the Becks one if I were convinced that Brewdog the company is greatly more awful than Becks (or whoever owns the brand) the company. You are dodging the question of how to decide between the two options by saying you'll choose neither of them.

Of course a potential answer is always "neither" and you can question the importance of having an AF beer in the first place, just like you could say there's never any actual need for anyone to go into any pub, or go on holiday anywhere, or own a dog, or attend a football match. But most of us have decided that we are not going to restrict our lives to only doing things that have no possible negative consequences. We mostly settle for trying to choose least-bad options that are also weighed up alongside our own selfish preferences. You said such choices are very easy but I disagree, because it's almost never possible to make them in the light of complete knowledge. Well, I guess they are easy if you have satisfied yourself that one option involves interacting with some entity that you have decided is immeasurably evil, and are happy to assume that the other option doesn't, even without doing any research.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The premise is that I want an AF beer of some kind, and there are two options. I much prefer the Brewdog option to drink but I might settle for the Becks one if I were convinced that Brewdog the company is greatly more awful than Becks (or whoever owns the brand) the company. You are dodging the question of how to decide between the two options by saying you'll choose neither of them.
> 
> Of course a potential answer is always "neither" and you can question the importance of having an AF beer in the first place, j


So you do get it. 
Simple isn't it. 
If you MUST have the beer do the math on your favourite one first. For me Brew dog is off the table because I have heard a lot of evidence that they are a company of shits. If you still must have your beer then have a becks. I don't know anything about becks other than that their beer is shit. They have not been on my radar or in the press about being shits like brewdog have. 
You don't have to look up every company if you don't want to, just like I don't look into life history of every person I meet . . . but if I do meet a person that I have found out to be rapey racist child murderer, then I will avoid their company rather than weigh up the pros and cons about whether they are a better option to invite to the pub quiz than Barry the book shop owner (whose personal life I know nothing much about).


----------



## Spymaster (May 31, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> So you do get it.
> Simple isn't it.
> If you MUST have the beer do the math on your favourite one first. For me Brew dog is off the table because I have heard a lot of evidence that they are a company of shits. If you still must have your beer then have a becks. I don't know anything about becks other than that their beer is shit. They have not been on my radar or in the press about being shits like brewdog have.
> You don't have to look up every company if you don't want to, just like I don't look into life history of every person I meet . . . but if I do meet a person that I have found out to be rapey racist child murderer, then I will avoid their company rather than weigh up the pros and cons about whether they are a better option to invite to the pub quiz than Barry the book shop owner (whose personal life I know nothing much about).



No points dealt with. Poor response, at best.


----------



## teuchter (May 31, 2022)

Most people are not rapey racist child murderers. So it's kind of reasonable to start out assuming they aren't, unless you know otherwise.

Seems a bit naive not to assume that most large companies will share many characteristics with Brewdog.

The question for me is whether there's definitive evidence that there are things going on within Brewdog that are extraordinary for a company of its size.

I do think it's reasonable to assume or at least hope that things will be better in smaller, perhaps less competitive brewing companies. For that reason, I'll tend to always go with an AF beer from a small brewery, in preference to Brewdog (or any of the large operators) when that option is available.

Some people of course might say that's a naive assumption to make too. But I do think that small companies have a better chance of avoiding some of the negative culture and power structures that are so likely to emerge in larger operations.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Most people are not rapey racist child murderers. So it's kind of reasonable to start out assuming they aren't, unless you know otherwise.


I'm trying to spell it out for you because you are having trouble grasping it. 
Tone it down to wife beater if you like. I still don't want them on my pub quiz team. 
. . . 
Or how about 'known arsehole that I don't like' vs a guy that I don't know is an arsehole yet because they have not been so openly 'an arsehole' that it's been in all the papers? 
You get it right? You're not an idiot? 
You don't have to look into the history of every company that makes spatulas before buying a spatula, but if it has been widely reported that . . . . lets say a 'beer company' have been massive dicks over and over again (and you haven't even had to seek this information out), then they are not a company I want to buy beer from. . .  if I am hypothetically actually dying of thirst and it's literally only brewdog or becks and I have to give one company my money OK I'll drink becks. . .but are you honestly posing a childish 'you have to choose one. . . these are my rules' question?


----------



## equationgirl (May 31, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> No points dealt with. Poor response, at best.


But, but, but that's your posting strategy, Spy! So how can Atomic Suplex be wrong if he is indeed following your playbook?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (May 31, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> But, but, but that's your posting strategy, Spy! So how can Atomic Suplex be wrong if he is indeed following your playbook?


Except I did.


----------



## teuchter (May 31, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'm trying to spell it out for you because you are having trouble grasping it.
> Tone it down to wife beater if you like. I still don't want them on my pub quiz team.
> . . .
> Or how about 'known arsehole that I don't like' vs a guy that I don't know is an arsehole yet because they have not been so openly 'an arsehole' that it's been in all the papers?
> ...



Actually I'm just trying to explain why I don't think it's as simple (at least for me) as deciding not to buy Brewdog because I've seen a load of bad press about them. To me it makes no sense to assume the alternatives are significantly better. That's based on my observations of what big companies do, and to some extent what the drinks industry in general does.

I initially picked Becks Blue for my example as that's what is often the "other" choice in my local shops. I knew pretty much nothing about Becks as a company. I've spent about 5 minutes on Google just now. It seems to be owned by a company called AB Inbev. 

AB Inbev's wikipedia page already provides a list of potentially dodgy stuff they have been involved in. 




__





						AB InBev - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org
				




A bit more googling with the right keywords and I can find some stuff about sexist advertising








						Sexism Epitomised In One Alcohol Label - Movendi International
					

The world's biggest beer brewer reveals alcohol industry sexism in yet another unethical ad and exposes Big Alcohol's ignorance concerning the role of their products in sexual violence.




					movendi.ngo
				




I can find some stuff about union-busting and harassment of employees








						Employees Allege ‘Witch Hunt’ of Union Members at Budweiser Brewery Near Delhi
					

Workers at AB InBev, parent company of Budweiser and other popular beer brands, allege harassment and intimidation of union members by the management at Sonipat.




					thewire.in
				




So, looks my assumptions are probably reasonably sound. Brewdog probably aren't really worse than most beer brands. They might even be better than some, in certain ways. Of course many of the thread's regular contributors will be _horrified _that I should take such a view. I trust they won't actually launch into some argument that AB Inbev's sexist advertising is not as bad as Brewdog's but you never know.


----------



## billy_bob (May 31, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> When I ordered a book online the other day, I thought, no I'll not use Amazon this time, I'll use Blackwell's instead. But then I looked them up and Amazon actually pay people more money than Blackwell's, who appear to be a shit employer. And I can testify after working at Books Etc and Borders in the past that they were also appalling employers. Most booksellers are.
> 
> So what do you do? It's all very well saying 'go to an independent shop and pay full price', but there aren't any near me (and they may very well also be shit employers).
> 
> You can apply this logic to just about any product. That's the problem with the 'blame the consumer' approach.



Use one of the various sites where you order online and your order is filled by an independent bookseller. It takes like 15 seconds of searching (not on google, obviously, because moral high ground  ) to find one.

It really isn't that hard.


----------



## editor (May 31, 2022)

I'm struggling to think of any UK brewery that has accrued so many recent, deeply unsavoury allegations of lies, sexism and bullying with a toxic workplace culture and one that makes female staff feel uncomfortable in the presence of the boss.

Neither can I think of any other company that has had the sheer volume of complaints, or one that spied on their staff, or one that made up fake trade unions or fabricated bullshit PR stories to try and capitalise on the covid crisis. Or one that regularly tries to silence their critics by bullying and legal threats.

But if - as some people keep insisting - they're simply no different to any other UK brewery, then why aren't we hearing endless recent stories about all these other dodgy breweries in the national and international press, week after week?


----------



## equationgirl (May 31, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Except I did.


Yes, I know you did.


----------



## nastyned (Jun 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It seems to be owned by a company called AB Inbev.


ABInBev are by far the world's largest brewing company. They make something like 20% of the world's beer. Yes, the whole world. Unsurprisingly they are an awful company. Saying Brewdog might not be worse really isn't setting the bar high.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 1, 2022)

Serge Forward said:


> Shit, as in: crap, rubbish, etc. Trolling, as in: on a wind up, unpleasant, being a dick on the internet, etc.



Trolls gotta troll. 

Years ago, thought that the brand was amusing but once the details came out, had to conclude that it's the mark of an eejit to carry on drinking the stuff. Or extol it's virtues. 

Yes, the company has a fair degree of success with its edgelordy marketing but at this stage, there's little they can do to convince a purchase of it.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Actually I'm just trying to explain why I don't think it's as simple (at least for me) as deciding not to buy Brewdog because I've seen a load of bad press about them. To me it makes no sense to assume the alternatives are significantly better. That's based on my observations of what big companies do, and to some extent what the drinks industry in general does.
> 
> I initially picked Becks Blue for my example as that's what is often the "other" choice in my local shops. I knew pretty much nothing about Becks as a company. I've spent about 5 minutes on Google just now. It seems to be owned by a company called AB Inbev.
> 
> ...


Easy. Then don't buy becks blue either. It's that simple.
You just found something out about them you didn't like which now perhaps outweighs your desire to spend money on their product. That's up to you. 

If your point is that nobody has the right to boycott brewdog if they have ever bought or used  any product or service which retrospectively under further scrutiny reveals nothing less than stellar business practices . . . . well then you are a dafty. 

Nobody is saying you must or must not investigate every single corporation you buy from. This thread is about brewdog. From the information available  I have surmised  that  brew dog are a company of dick heads that won't be getting my money.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 1, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> If your point is that nobody has the right to boycott brewdog if they have ever bought or used  any product or service which retrospectively under further scrutiny reveals nothing less than stellar business practices . . . . well then you are a dafty.



This seems a bit back to front to me to be honest. I don't think anyone is saying anyone else has an obligation to buy from Brewdog, that would obviously be ridiculous. If you don't want to just don't, nobody cares. Seems to me the implication on this thread is more the other way - that someone who would buy their products shouldn't. And I think that absolutely does lead down that path of whataboutery tbh.


----------



## killer b (Jun 1, 2022)

Has this article been posted? Some wild stuff. Don't take cocaine, guys.









						Conspiracy Weary — BrewDog CEO Files Fraud Lawsuit Against Woman He Paid for Information (Update: 9/29/22) — Good Beer Hunting
					

Update, Sept. 29, 2022:  There has been a resolution to the Scottish civil case between BrewDog CEO James Watt and his former romantic partner, Emili Ziem, though complete records have not been made publicly available by the court. Reports of a conclusion to the case against Ziem were first   publis




					www.goodbeerhunting.com


----------



## A380 (Jun 1, 2022)

Charles Wells’s main brewery is just down the road from my house. I’ve never heard anyone working for them say they are cunts. But they do use agency staff sometimes.


They now also brew the Youngs range.

That is all.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 1, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Seems to me the implication on this thread is more the other way - that someone who would buy their products shouldn't.



It's more than just implication!

Reading up on AB InBev has reinforced my decision to ignore those who are lecturing people about buying Brewdog products.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 1, 2022)

killer b said:


> Has this article been posted? Some wild stuff. Don't take cocaine, guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


It will be very interesting to see how this case develops!


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> But, but, but that's your posting strategy, Spy! So how can Atomic Suplex be wrong if he is indeed following your playbook?



Don't be silly.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jun 1, 2022)

killer b said:


> Has this article been posted? Some wild stuff. Don't take cocaine, guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Sounds like everyone thinks he's an arsehole and he sees that as about being the result of a conspiracy rather than being about him being an arsehole.

It's oft remarked that money and success don't make people happy but with this guy you can't help feeling glad it hasn't.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 1, 2022)

killer b said:


> Has this article been posted? Some wild stuff. Don't take cocaine, guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That article is incredibly carefully written


----------



## killer b (Jun 1, 2022)

they've spent the best part of a month lawyering it since it's initial publication so you'd hope it would be


----------



## editor (Jun 1, 2022)

killer b said:


> they've spent the best part of a month lawyering it since it's initial publication so you'd hope it would be


I don't think much has changed since the original copy, although I'm glad they stood up to the bullying tactics of super rich Brewdog.


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 1, 2022)

A380 said:


> Charles Wells’s main brewery is just down the road from my house. I’ve never heard anyone working for them say they are cunts. But they do use agency staff sometimes.
> 
> 
> They now also brew the Youngs range.
> ...



Likewise Adnams, I often divert my walking to go past their brewery and smell the malting. Pretty sure they aren't hipster wank bro misogynist Tory cunts either.

Oh, and their current brewery began life 16 years after the Peasant's Revolt, which is infinitely more cool than anything Brewdog could ever do.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 1, 2022)

platinumsage said:


> Likewise Adnams, I often divert my walking to go past their brewery and smell the malting. Pretty sure they aren't hipster wank bro misogynist Tory cunts either.


I think most brewing firms are tory cunts, tbf, but few go out of their way to deny it and then base their entire marketing/brand strategy on that lie.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> If you don't want to just don't, nobody cares. Seems to me the implication on this thread is more the other way - that someone who would buy their products shouldn't. And I think that absolutely does lead down that path of whataboutery tbh.



Well quite. And that's been explicitly said to ElizabethofYork. Half a dozen crackpots in an obscure corner of the interweb moralising about her wanting to try a BD beer but not a word about equationgirl's penchant for weighted blankets and groceries from Amazon, other's greedy consumption of genocide smartphones, or a multitude of other consumer bankruptcies.

"Whataboutery" is just a term used by the morally dumbfounded to justify flagrant hypocrisy.

Meanwhile, people in the real world are queing up to work for this evil employer.


----------



## platinumsage (Jun 1, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I think most brewing firms are tory cunts, tbf, but few go out of their way to deny it and then base their entire marketing/brand strategy on that lie.



Well, I don't know his politics but the current family owner, Jonathan Adnams, has spent 27 years crewing the local lifeboat which compares well to the BrewDog hipsters whose main achievement seems to have been fending off allegations.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 1, 2022)

Aberdeen RNLI seem friendly with Brewdog. Anyone getting into a maritime emergency off the northeast coast of scotland should remember to refuse help from them.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 1, 2022)

Shameless support for the brewery and the monarchy all in one day.

Coming soon, why fox hunting strengthens the community.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 1, 2022)

killer b said:


> they've spent the best part of a month lawyering it since it's initial publication so you'd hope it would be


and should be essential reference for anyone wanting to avoid a libel suit.


----------



## editor (Jun 1, 2022)

two sheds said:


> and should be essential reference for anyone wanting to avoid a libel suit.


People can still attract libel suits even if what they posted is 100% accurate thanks to a system that favours rich cunts.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Coming soon, why fox hunting strengthens the community.



And your problem with this is …?


----------



## dessiato (Jun 1, 2022)

If anyone feels strongly enough to protest the AGM is 28th June.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 1, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> This seems a bit back to front to me to be honest. I don't think anyone is saying anyone else has an obligation to buy from Brewdog, that would obviously be ridiculous. If you don't want to just don't, nobody cares. Seems to me the implication on this thread is more the other way - that someone who would buy their products shouldn't. And I think that absolutely does lead down that path of whataboutery tbh.


There's hypocrisy-hunting on both sides here, seems to me. 

Another example would be Wetherspoons. I get why some people boycott Spoons, but when I compare their wages with another chain, I find much the same as I found when I compared Amazon to Blackwell's. If anything, spoons appear to pay a tiny bit more than Greene King, for instance. So if I have the choice between drinking in a Greene King pub (and hoping against hope that they don't just have Greene King ales) or a Wetherspoons next door with pints of very good ale for less than half the price, I'm going to choose the Spoons. Of course the owner is a complete dick. So what?


----------



## teuchter (Jun 1, 2022)

dessiato said:


> If anyone feels strongly enough to protest the AGM is 28th June.


Did you get a reply to your email yet?


----------



## dessiato (Jun 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Did you get a reply to your email yet?


Which one?


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 1, 2022)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> This seems a bit back to front to me to be honest. I don't think anyone is saying anyone else has an obligation to buy from Brewdog, that would obviously be ridiculous. If you don't want to just don't, nobody cares.


Yes, that's what I said. 


Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Seems to me the implication on this thread is more the other way - that someone who would buy their products shouldn't.


I agree


Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> And I think that absolutely does lead down that path of whataboutery tbh.


Absolutely, and if you are aware of other companies that are just as bad don't buy from them either. . . (though this thread is only about Brewdog).

But that wasn't their point. They were saying my equation of 'does your need/desire for a product outweigh how much you care about how much of a shitbag you think the company is?' was "not as simple as that". . . They set up a scenario where they wanted a non alcoholic beer. . . but only Brewdog or Becks, so which one should they have? They knew Brewdog was bad, but maybe Becks was also bad so why single out Brewdog for a boycott? I said because I know Brewdog are shits. If Becks are shit too then don't buy from them either . . . unless your need for beer outweighs how much you think they are cunts. . . that's up to the consumer. Seems quite simple to me. What isn't simple about that?


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> Yes, that's what I said.
> 
> I agree
> 
> ...



You seem confused.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> You seem confused.


I'm not. . . but I assume you are. 
Let me help you. What bit don't you understand and I will go through it again just for you.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 1, 2022)

ATOMIC SUPLEX said:


> I'm not. . . but I assume you are.
> Let me help you. What bit don't you understand and I will go through it again just for you.



The main bit.


----------



## DaphneM (Jun 1, 2022)

A380 said:


> Charles Wells’s main brewery is just down the road from my house. I’ve never heard anyone working for them say they are cunts. But they do use agency staff sometimes.
> 
> 
> They now also brew the Youngs range.
> ...


Wikipedia says this "In May 2017, the company announced that it was selling the brewery and wine business to Marston's Brewery together with the Bombardier and McEwan's brands and rights to the Young's brands. It said it would set up a separate brewery in Bedford to brew Charles Wells-branded beers"


----------



## A380 (Jun 1, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Wikipedia says this "In May 2017, the company announced that it was selling the brewery and wine business to Marston's Brewery together with the Bombardier and McEwan's brands and rights to the Young's brands. It said it would set up a separate brewery in Bedford to brew Charles Wells-branded beers"



I’m not sure that happened in full cos Covid. They flogged some of their brands and the new bottling plant and re branded as Wells and Co - though no one calls them that , arround the Brew Point brand?


----------



## DaphneM (Jun 1, 2022)

A380 said:


> I’m not sure that happened in full cos Covid. They flogged some of their brands and the new bottling plant and re branded as Wells and Co - though no one calls them that , arround the Brew Point brand?


i dont think they brew youngs from what i can see

they used to have distribution rights to Red Stripe in the uk  ages ago, vaguely interesting point


----------



## mwgdrwg (Jun 1, 2022)

193 pages.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 1, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Which one?


A little while ago you said you were going to demand an apology from Brewdog. I'm interested what their response was.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 1, 2022)

editor said:


> People can still attract libel suits even if what they posted is 100% accurate thanks to a system that favours rich cunts.


yes fair point, wouldn't fancy relying on the Arkell vs Pressdram defence


----------



## dessiato (Jun 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> A little while ago you said you were going to demand an apology from Brewdog. I'm interested what their response was.


I'd forgotten about that. I, therefore, assume I got no reply.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 1, 2022)

dessiato said:


> The behaviour of Watt is appalling. There's no excuse for it. I shall be asking for "explanations" and, as an absolute minimum, apologies. There is no excuse for this behaviour. We all know better.


It's disappointing that you just forgot about it, when an apology was supposed to be an absolute minimum.

This is an illustration of why Brewdog and other companies can just not bother too much about a lot of this bad press stuff. Most people simply aren't that bothered in the end.


----------



## ATOMIC SUPLEX (Jun 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> The main bit.


Ho ho, you are a hoot.


----------



## A380 (Jun 1, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i dont think they brew youngs from what i can see
> 
> they used to have distribution rights to Red Stripe in the uk  ages ago, vaguely interesting point


They lost the Red Stripe licence a few years ago ( to Northampton?) . They replaced it with Kirin but you can’t get it in many places now…


----------



## friedaweed (Jun 1, 2022)

https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/two-free-pints-of-brewdog-at-any-of-their-bars.378472/
		


For the fans.


----------



## friedaweed (Jun 1, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> i dont think they brew youngs from what i can see
> 
> they used to have distribution rights to Red Stripe in the uk  ages ago, vaguely interesting point


Pretty sure Diaggio have had redstripe for a while now.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 1, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/two-free-pints-of-brewdog-at-any-of-their-bars.378472/
> 
> 
> 
> For the fans.


If someone tries to accept this offer via PM or other underhand methods, I trust you will reveal their identity on this thread so that they can be lectured and scolded appropriately.


----------



## friedaweed (Jun 1, 2022)

teuchter said:


> If someone tries to accept this offer via PM or other underhand methods, I trust you will reveal their identity on this thread so that they can be lectured and scolded appropriately.


It's in the post mate  

Don't forget it's a bank holiday though so you wont get it until Tuesday/Wednesday


----------



## DaphneM (Jun 1, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Pretty sure Diaggio have had redstripe for a while now.


Oh, this was a long time ago


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 2, 2022)

killer b said:


> Has this article been posted? Some wild stuff. Don't take cocaine, guys.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've read this properly now  

Why *anyone*!, on this thread/Urban generally/elsewhere, might? be inclined to defend the main man being discussed, is utterly beyond me!


----------



## Humberto (Jun 2, 2022)

I haven't read it yet, but from a prior discussion:

cheaper clothing = sweatshops
Sweatshops (Libertarians say) are progress of the free market (the workers go there entirely voluntarily because it is better for them).


----------



## Humberto (Jun 2, 2022)

Save you 10 pages. 💂‍♂️


----------



## Humberto (Jun 2, 2022)

That's all creeping in here too. No breaks. Hours when they please. No talking.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 2, 2022)

William of Walworth said:


> I've read this properly now
> 
> Why *anyone*!, on this thread/Urban generally/elsewhere, might? be inclined to defend the main man being discussed, is utterly beyond me!


Not sure anyone here is "defending" him are they?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 2, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Not sure anyone here is "defending" him are they?


Possibly not all that _directly_ 

But 'Whataboutery-ing' about him, Brewdog, their practices, etc., and out of that, 'comparing' BD with other supposedly 'about as bad' companies,  has what _some_ on this mega-thread have definitely been doing.

Just saying.   IMO, etc.


----------



## xenon (Jun 2, 2022)

I don’t know. Buying shares in them is kind of defending them. or at least saying yeah, I’d like to profit from this companies activities.
Cue boring obvious post about pension funds.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 2, 2022)

xenon said:


> I don’t know. Buying shares in them is kind of defending them. or at least saying yeah, I’d like to profit from this companies activities.
> Cue boring obvious post about pension funds.


For sure it's staying yes I'm happy to profit from the company's activities. And owning shares is about as far as anyone on this thread has gone in active involvement with the company. At least, as far as anyone has owned up to.

It's a bit silly to say it amounts to "defending" the activities and behaviour of James Watt though.

Various posters have defended their own choices. No-one that I remember has tried to defend James Watt.


----------



## dessiato (Jun 2, 2022)

xenon said:


> I don’t know. Buying shares in them is kind of defending them. or at least saying yeah, I’d like to profit from this companies activities.
> Cue boring obvious post about pension funds.





teuchter said:


> For sure it's staying yes I'm happy to profit from the company's activities. And owning shares is about as far as anyone on this thread has gone in active involvement with the company. At least, as far as anyone has owned up to.
> 
> It's a bit silly to say it amounts to "defending" the activities and behaviour of James Watt though.
> 
> Various posters have defended their own choices. No-one that I remember has tried to defend James Watt.


I have shares, it's mentioned on this thread. I was subjected to a lot of abuse for it. Anyone else who is a shareholder is unlikely to admit it here if they saw what abuse I received. They would be wise not to.


----------



## editor (Jun 2, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I have shares, it's mentioned on this thread. I was subjected to a lot of abuse for it. Anyone else who is a shareholder is unlikely to admit it here if they saw what abuse I received. They would be wise not to.


"Abuse"
Poor thing,


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2022)

teuchter said:


> For sure it's staying yes I'm happy to profit from the company's activities. And owning shares is about as far as anyone on this thread has gone in active involvement with the company. At least, as far as anyone has owned up to.
> 
> It's a bit silly to say it amounts to "defending" the activities and behaviour of James Watt though.
> 
> Various posters have defended their own choices. No-one that I remember has tried to defend James Watt.


Nah, that's bollux; a number have praised their marketing and branding in terms.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 2, 2022)

Humberto said:


> That's all creeping in here too. No breaks. Hours when they please. No talking.


Enjoy your Bank Holiday


----------



## teuchter (Jun 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Nah, that's bollux; a number have praised their marketing and branding in terms.


Again, silly to claim that this amounts to defending James Watt.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2022)

William of Walworth said:


> Possibly not all that _directly_
> 
> But 'Whataboutery-ing' about him, Brewdog, their practices, etc., and out of that, 'comparing' BD with other supposedly 'about as bad' companies,  has what _some_ on this mega-thread have definitely been doing.
> 
> Just saying.   IMO, etc.



Never use the term "whataboutery", Will.

It marks you out as an unprincipled charlatan of the highest order, hiding behind childish terms when unable to justify a position. .


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Again, silly to claim that this amounts to defending James Watt.


As co-founder, owner and CEO it clearly does.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> As co-founder, owner and CEO it clearly does.


No it doesn't.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> As co-founder, owner and CEO it clearly does.


It really doesn't,  you know.  You can admire a company's marketing and branding strategy, and still disapprove of individuals.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> It really doesn't,  you know.  You can admire a company's marketing and branding strategy, and still disapprove of individuals.


It really does defend Watt as co-founder, owner and CEO of the business. Think about it.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> It really does defend Watt as co-founder, owner and CEO of the business. Think about it.


Don't be daft.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 2, 2022)

Anyone who says publicly they find this visually impressive is a defender of totalitarianism.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> It really does defend Watt as co-founder, owner and CEO of the business. Think about it.



 Don't be a tit, Broggers.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2022)

Trollies rolling in with incisive points of argument including "silly", "daft" and "tit".
So tough to argue with.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Trollies rolling in with incisive points of argument including "silly", "daft" and "tit".
> So tough to argue with.



Ah, c'mon. What pert of this current non-argument of yours isn't tittish?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Ah, c'mon. What pert of this current non-argument of yours isn't tittish?


You're the master; do tell.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> You're the master; do tell.



None of it! You’re being absurd. 

You know that though


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> None of it! You’re being absurd.
> 
> You know that though


Yep, all that absurdity about Watt being the co-founder, owner and CEO of the business that is the subject of the thread.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yep, all that absurdity about Watt being the co-founder, owner and CEO of the business that is the subject of the thread.



You’re getting muddled up again. Try to deal with one thing at a time.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Never use the term "whataboutery", Will.
> 
> It marks you out as an unprincipled charlatan of the highest order, hiding behind childish terms when unable to justify a position. .


But you do it all the time, Spy! So why is it ok for you to do it, if you're saying William of Walworth can't?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> It really doesn't,  you know.  You can admire a company's marketing and branding strategy, and still disapprove of individuals.


Really? Misogyny as a branding strategy was discussed at length some pages back. It comes from the top.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> But you do it all the time, Spy! So why is it ok for you to do it, if you're saying William of Walworth can't?



Ahhhh, there you are. Was wondering where you’d got to. 

Had a good day?


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Really? Misogyny as a branding strategy was discussed at length some pages back. It comes from the top.



What nonsense. You clearly don’t know how corporate branding and marketing works.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2022)

He'll call you a tit next.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> He'll call you a tit next.


I would expect nothing less than to be called silly plus some kind of sexist insult, which is then denied to be sexist.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> What nonsense. You clearly don’t know how corporate branding and marketing works.


Go back and read the thread, Spymaster. You have written most of the nonsense on it.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> He'll call you a tit next.



Not unless she makes the same argument you’ve been ballsing-up all day!


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It unless she makes the same argument you’ve been ballsing-up all day!


At least he makes arguments, Spy. You just nitpick and whine and evadeany questions put to you.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Not unless she makes the same argument you’ve been ballsing-up all day!


But that reply isn't funny?


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> At least he makes arguments, Spy. You just nitpick and whine and evadeany questions put to you.



I’m happy to answer sensible question. 

Are you going to answer my question?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I’m happy to answer sensible question.
> 
> Are you going to answer my question?


Don't be silly, you've not answered any one of mine on this thread.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Don't be silly, you've not answered any one of mine on this thread.



But you haven’t asked any sensible ones.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 2, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> But you haven’t asked any sensible ones.


You're the only person who thinks the questions aren't sensible. 

Are you saying 'what's your actual opinion?' is not a sensible question? Because you've not answered that and many more on this thread.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 2, 2022)

brogdale said:


> But that reply isn't funny?



No, that one was informative. I like to mix them up a bit.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 2, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> No, that one was informative. I like to mix them up a bit.


Not funny either?
You losing it?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 3, 2022)

I fear Spymaster is unwell, the sexut insult has not been forthcoming.

Sadness


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 3, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I fear Spymaster is unwell, the sexut insult has not been forthcoming.
> 
> Sadness



Not sure what you’re on about here, Eggy. 

Flattered that you had me on your mind enough to tag me when I was tucked up in bed after 1am this morning though!


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 4, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Not sure what you’re on about here, Eggy.
> 
> Flattered that you had me on your mind enough to tag me when I was tucked up in bed after 1am this morning though!


I really think you should get your memory problems checked by a medical professional. They appear to be quite serious.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 4, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I really think you should get your memory problems checked by a medical professional. They appear to be quite serious.



Still no idea what you're frothing on about but don't you have some sort of silly rule about ableist insults?

The mask slips!


----------



## teuchter (Jun 4, 2022)

I've just been alerted via another thread to another brewery inspired by Brewdog - again using rebel language to sell its stuff.

It's appropriating imagery from the anarchist scene, rather than the punk scene - if there's a significant difference.





__





						WHO WE ARE! -
					

All you need to know about our brewery; from launching in 2012, to our Newcastle move in 2018, and what the future holds!




					anarchybrewco.com
				




Lots to discuss there but I'll leave that for Monday I think.


----------



## JimW (Jun 4, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I've just been alerted via another thread to another brewery inspired by Brewdog - again using rebel language to sell its stuff.
> 
> It's appropriating imagery from the anarchist scene, rather than the punk scene - if there's a significant difference.
> 
> ...


What sort of sex pestery and bullying has their CEO opted for? Understand it's de rigeur.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 4, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Still no idea what you're frothing on about but don't you have some sort of silly rule about ableist insults?
> 
> The mask slips!


That you think a mild comment about your memory is an insult says more about you than it does me.

 After all, surely you can't have forgotten your appalling behaviour on this thread - that you never apologised for by the way?

And 'frothing'?? Whatever are you blathering on about now? Do explain.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 4, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> That you think a mild comment about your memory is an insult says more about you than it does me.



It says everything about you, Eggy, you old fraud. Here you are, the self-appointed headmistress and U75 monitor of PC language, happy to take others to task for using terms like moron, on the basis that it’s disableist (yes, really), honking on that someone else should seek medical attention, presumably neurological, for memory loss.

You’re a card.

Again, cheers for all the attention. I make that 9 times you’ve tagged or quoted me in the last 48 hours.  😍


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 4, 2022)

I think it has been others that named me the pencil monitor of U75, yourself among them.

You can dish it out but you cannot take the slightest bit of mockery in return, Spy.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 4, 2022)

This thread is informative, revealing, and quite tragic all at once


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 4, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I think it has been others that named me the pencil monitor of U75, yourself among them.
> 
> You can dish it out but you cannot take the slightest bit of mockery in return, Spy.





Stop this silliness now, Eggy. I’m trying to watch the cricket! I’m happy to indulge this infatuation of yours later.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 4, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> This thread is informative, revealing, and quite tragic all at once


And funny.  Don't forget funny.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 4, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> And funny.  Don't forget funny.


Yeah, all that appalling treatment of workers by the sex pesty malevolent narcissist CEO...warra giggle!


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 4, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yeah, all that appalling treatment of workers by the sex pesty malevolent narcissist CEO...warra giggle!



Funny, informative, and not in the least trite!

I'm in awe of your ability to blend the charm of Joseph Goebbels, with the wit of a cactus, Broggers.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 5, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Yeah, all that appalling treatment of workers by the sex pesty malevolent narcissist CEO...warra giggle!


And the bullying of posters who didn't defend the 'brilliant marketing strategy' or the CEO's tactics. Hilarious.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 5, 2022)

Bullying?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> And the bullying of posters who didn't defend the 'brilliant marketing strategy' or the CEO's tactics. Hilarious.



There's certainly gaslighting going on.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> And the bullying of posters who didn't defend the 'brilliant marketing strategy' or the CEO's tactics. Hilarious.


It's certainly revealing to see that some posters on this thread think that their contributions are amusing to anyone beyond themselves.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 5, 2022)

I haven't  seen any bullying.


----------



## editor (Jun 5, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I haven't  seen any bullying.


Plenty of gaslighting. Shameful stuff, really.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 5, 2022)

editor said:


> Plenty of gaslighting. Shameful stuff, really.


Is that the same as bullying?


----------



## editor (Jun 5, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Is that the same as bullying?


It can have the same emotional impact as bullying. Surprised you didn't know this.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 5, 2022)

editor said:


> It can have the same emotional impact as bullying. Surprised you didn't know this.


I don't really understand gaslighting.  The definition seems to be 'making someone doubt their own sanity'.  Has that happened on this thread?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 5, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Is that the same as bullying?


It's a form of bullying, yes.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 5, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I don't really understand gaslighting.  The definition seems to be 'making someone doubt their own sanity'.  Has that happened on this thread?


One could rephrase that to 'trying to convince someone that something they know to be true, isn't' - basically it's trying to exploit or twist someone's belief in something.

There's also been a lot of straight up denial and 'sweeping anything inconvenient under the rug', traits that are often seen in narcissistic people, especially in family abuse situations, to name but two traits.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> One could rephrase that to 'trying to convince someone that something they know to be true, isn't' - basically it's trying to exploit or twist someone's belief in something.


Is that gaslighting?

Or just disagreeing?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 5, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Is that gaslighting?
> 
> Or just disagreeing?


No, because disagreeing accepts that there are two opposing viewpoints.

Gaslighting involves manipulation of someone.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 6, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> No, because disagreeing accepts that there are two opposing viewpoints.


So that IS what's happening here then?



> Gaslighting involves manipulation of someone.


Who's being manipulated?


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I don't really understand gaslighting.  The definition seems to be 'making someone doubt their own sanity'.  Has that happened on this thread?



That's the definition I just found but I think we're about to get another.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 6, 2022)

JimW said:


> What sort of sex pestery and bullying has their CEO opted for? Understand it's de rigeur.


We can get on to that but I thought we could start with looking at the language and imagery these capitalists are using to sell their stuff, because that's what this thread actually started off being about.



They are quite blatantly using the anarchist "A" symbol here for example (along with a load of other stuff).

I did double check that they are not some kind of workers' co-op or anything like that. They seem to be a private company with directors.

So, the question is whether it's OK for capitalists to adopt things like the anarchist symbol to help them make profit for themselves and exploit wage labourers.

All those who remain silent on the question can be assumed to be defending the capitalists.

It certainly would make me think twice about buying their product.


----------



## JimW (Jun 6, 2022)

teuchter said:


> We can get on to that but I thought we could start with looking at the language and imagery these capitalists are using to sell their stuff, because that's what this thread actually started off being about.
> 
> View attachment 325825
> 
> ...


The colour palette looks quite BrewDog too; perhaps the market will rescue us by destroying the arch-fiend's bottom line under a mountain of cheap knock-offs.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 6, 2022)

Their logo typeface is very clearly inspired by Brewdog's as well.

Very much aiming at the same market.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 6, 2022)

It looks like a straightforward rip-off of BD, replacing "punk" with "anarchy".

Obviously seeking to replicate their success.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> So that IS what's happening here then?
> 
> 
> Who's being manipulated?


I wondered that too.


----------



## spitfire (Jun 6, 2022)

teuchter said:


> We can get on to that but I thought we could start with looking at the language and imagery these capitalists are using to sell their stuff, because that's what this thread actually started off being about.
> 
> View attachment 325825
> 
> ...



I had a stand next to them at a craft beer festival and they certainly dress like punks and have a lot of punk tattoos. Definitely old punks. Nice crew of people. But yes, capitalipunx now.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 6, 2022)

Irrelevantly  in any thread about breweries and beers, Anarchy make some damned fine beer too!!   

I've never really seen their marketing (before now!) either ....


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 7, 2022)

spitfire said:


> I had a stand next to them at a craft beer festival and they certainly dress like punks and have a lot of punk tattoos. Definitely old punks. Nice crew of people. But yes, capitalipunx now.



What was your stand?


----------



## spitfire (Jun 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> What was your stand?



I'll DM you a link to our website. If I put it up here it will make me instantly identifiable to any tom, dick or harry.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 7, 2022)

spitfire said:


> I'll DM you a link to our website. If I put it up here it will make me instantly identifiable to any tom, dick or harry.


Don't tell him, Pike.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 7, 2022)

William of Walworth said:


> Irrelevantly  in any thread about breweries and beers, Anarchy make some damned fine beer too!!
> 
> I've never really seen their marketing (before now!) either ....


I trust you will be boycotting them from now on?


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 7, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Is that gaslighting?
> 
> Or just disagreeing?


Gaslighting comes from the film Gaslight. It's a great film, which I thoroughly recommend. You'll know what it means at the end of it.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 7, 2022)

littlebabyjesus said:


> Gaslighting comes from the film Gaslight. It's a great film, which I thoroughly recommend. You'll know what it means at the end of it.


I've seen it - the original black and white one.  The husband attempts to make the wife think she's going insane.  

I was a bit confused by the term gaslighting on this thread - I haven't seen anyone trying to make anyone else think they're going mad.

So I wondered if my understanding of gaslighting was incorrect.


----------



## littlebabyjesus (Jun 7, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I've seen it - the original black and white one.  The husband attempts to make the wife think she's going insane.
> 
> I was a bit confused by the term gaslighting on this thread - I haven't seen anyone trying to make anyone else think they're going mad.
> 
> So I wondered if my understanding of gaslighting was incorrect.


I could gaslight you and say that no, that's not what the film is about...

But yeah, sounds like you know what it means.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 7, 2022)

Again, this.thread


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 7, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Again, this.thread



Nobody's posted on it for 6 hours but you felt it deserved a bump with a worthless post, right?


----------



## William of Walworth (Jun 7, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I trust you will be boycotting them from now on?


Some sort of _halfway-sane_ reason to do so, might not go amiss! 

[ETA : Above relates to Alchemy Brewery/earlier posts about it  -- but to be unusually fair  , there appear to be a number of different breweries of that name or similar . I was thinking about the Newcastle-upon-Tyne one, or possibly (?) the Edinburgh one -- website not especially clear, when you're in a pre-coffee morning rush!   ]]


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 8, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Nobody's posted on it for 6 hours but you felt it deserved a bump with a worthless post, right?



What's the acceptable time limit for worthy posts like yours?


----------



## kenny g (Jun 8, 2022)

My 20 litres of home brewed fine hazy west coast IPA has matured nicely and not a penny has had to cross the palm of any BD characters to create it. I can now drink happily in the knowledge my brew is clear.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 8, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> What's the acceptable time limit for worthy posts like yours?



You're just miffed because you didn't know what gaslighting meant!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 8, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> You're just miffed because you didn't know what gaslighting meant!



Do you?


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 8, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Do you?



I do now. I looked it up. Nothing like that going on here. You just said it out of ignorance and a couple of folks jumped on the bandwagon.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 8, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I do now. I looked it up. Nothing like that going on here. You just said it out of ignorance and a couple of folks jumped on the bandwagon.



What are you on about?


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 8, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> What are you on about?



Astrophysics.


----------



## dessiato (Jun 8, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Astrophysics.


Well it's not rocket surgery, is it?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 8, 2022)

A gas giant, perhaps


----------



## teuchter (Jun 8, 2022)

William of Walworth said:


> Some sort of _halfway-sane_ reason to do so, might not go amiss!
> 
> [ETA : Above relates to Alchemy Brewery/earlier posts about it  -- but to be unusually fair  , there appear to be a number of different breweries of that name or similar . I was thinking about the Newcastle-upon-Tyne one, or possibly (?) the Edinburgh one -- website not especially clear, when you're in a pre-coffee morning rush!   ]]


The one I was talking about is the Anarchy Brewery, this one:





__





						WHO WE ARE! -
					

All you need to know about our brewery; from launching in 2012, to our Newcastle move in 2018, and what the future holds!




					anarchybrewco.com
				




Which is not only Brewdog inspired but is using anarchist imagery to market its capitalist, exploitative business.

It matches exactly the thread title: "yet another hip company using rebel language to sell its stuff".


----------



## srb7677 (Jun 8, 2022)

John Lydon of the Sex Pistols made a career out of being an angry rebel. He grew rich out of it. He probably started out as the real thing but in time it bacame just an act, part of his public image, as he bought into the establishment.

His attempts to backtrack on his God Save the Queen lyrics were most unconvincing, clearly demonstrating a person who had become conformist yet desperate to pretend otherwise.
The final public sell out of course was when he popped up in TV commecials advertising Utterly Butterly Margarine, lol.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 8, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The one I was talking about is the Anarchy Brewery, this one:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What is it that you want people to say about this other business that you've introduced to the thread?


----------



## two sheds (Jun 8, 2022)

Ban them


----------



## nastyned (Jun 8, 2022)

Melissa Cole's take on Brewdog: Melissa Cole’s Take on BrewDog - All About Beer


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 8, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Melissa Cole's take on Brewdog: Melissa Cole’s Take on BrewDog - All About Beer





> I found the second half [of the Brewdog documentary] really harrowing, listening to the women’s stories. And the defense that I’ve heard from a lot of people of he wasn’t doing anything illegal is an extremely depressing one, right? Because if you’ve made that many women uncomfortable, and men, and you put men in a position or any of your staff in a position where they feel they either have to be worried around you or protect their colleagues from you, you’ve got big problems, pal. And that, for me, is really horrifying.





> We actually filmed a lot more, and when I say a lot more I mean a lot more... But they ended up finding so much stuff out that it got cut down.





> It’s definitely gone wider. It’s really gone wider, I’m inundated with messages saying “oh my god, I didn’t know. I know you didn’t like them. But I didn’t realize how awful they were. I’m never buying BrewDog again.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 8, 2022)

Yeh it's their marketing that's important though. Good marketing


----------



## Funky_monks (Jun 10, 2022)

This thread is bonkers.    😂


----------



## teuchter (Jun 10, 2022)

brogdale said:


> What is it that you want people to say about this other business that you've introduced to the thread?


I'd like them to say what they think about it. Of course, they have the right to remain silent, but doing so may or may not be used against them.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I'd like them to say what they think about it. Of course, they have the right to remain silent, but doing so may or may not be used against them.


You'd like them to rebel against rebels rebelling against another rebellious product?


----------



## brogdale (Jun 10, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I'd like them to say what they think about it. Of course, they have the right to remain silent, but doing so may or may not be used against them.


Oh OK, then.
Well, I suppose the question is whether or not it's questionable for one set of 'wealth creators' to rip off the "genius marketing" of another. Aren't there bourgeois laws about this sort of stuff?


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 10, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Oh OK, then.
> Well, I suppose the question is whether or not it's questionable for one set of 'wealth creators' to rip off the "genius marketing" of another.



Aye. They certainly know how to sell beer.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Aye. They certainly know how to sell beer overhopped piss.


c4u


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 10, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> c4u



Absolutely. To make scores of millions out of selling beer that bad they've got to be doing something right. That'll be the marketing as Broggers correctly pointed out.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 10, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I'd like them to say what they think about it. Of course, they have the right to remain silent, but doing so may or may not be used against them.


an admonition you could profitably follow yourself.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 10, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Oh OK, then.
> Well, I suppose the question is whether or not it's questionable for one set of 'wealth creators' to rip off the "genius marketing" of another. Aren't there bourgeois laws about this sort of stuff?



I'm not sure anyone's really bothered about that.

Whether or not they have been inspired by Brewdog, they are using imagery and "rebel language" in their marketing in just the same way that Brewdog do. And arguably with a bit of sexism too.

What I reckon is that the people who are most vocal on this thread in their outrage at Brewdog marketing are scared of saying anything either way about this Anarchy Brew company because they think they are being set up to fall into a trap.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 10, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I'm not sure anyone's really bothered about that.
> 
> Whether or not they have been inspired by Brewdog, they are using imagery and "rebel language" in their marketing in just the same way that Brewdog do. And arguably with a bit of sexism too.
> 
> What I reckon is that the people who are most vocal on this thread in their outrage at Brewdog marketing are scared of saying anything either way about this Anarchy Brew company because they think they are being set up to fall into a trap.


WTF you on about?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 10, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I'm not sure anyone's really bothered about that.
> 
> Whether or not they have been inspired by Brewdog, they are using imagery and "rebel language" in their marketing in just the same way that Brewdog do. And arguably with a bit of sexism too.
> 
> What I reckon is that the people who are most vocal on this thread in their outrage at Brewdog marketing are scared of saying anything either way about this Anarchy Brew company because they think they are being set up to fall into a trap.


Oh, that's what they think, is it?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 10, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Oh, that's what they think, is it?


Any luck finding examples of gaslighting on this thread?


----------



## teuchter (Jun 10, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Oh, that's what they think, is it?


It's what I reckon they think.


----------



## Chemical needs (Jun 10, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Any luck finding examples of gaslighting on this thread?


I think any time someone is playing the player and not the ball they're at risk of slipping into gaslighting territory.


----------



## kenny g (Jun 10, 2022)

I really could not give a flying fuck about @ being appropriated by anyone. It isn't like Fundy Islam where the use of an image of the prophet will supposedly destroy a relationship with the true faith.


----------



## kenny g (Jun 10, 2022)

Chemical needs said:


> I think any time someone is playing the player and not the ball they're at risk of slipping into gaslighting territory.


Many threads shine bright in that case.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It's what I reckon they think.



If it's reckoning so, then this other company or any profit making company that appropriates the image of rebellion deserves scrutiny. And maybe there's a whole new thread in that?

However, the focus of this thread is Brewdog and their _nudge nudge, wink wink_ brand of bollocks. Some people appear to find it a bit of craic - and if it winds up the others who object to it, well then, waahey, mission accomplished etc. It's possible they don't even drink the beer, but they might just find the trolling, winding up, gaslighting and endless bickering entirely agreeable.

There's a dwindling number of members who do this across several threads, on emotive issues like, er, cycling/meat and that sort of thing. It's fine, it's good to have some kind of an outlet for their frustrations with the times we live in. Nobody likes not coping with it and/or getting older. But you have to take some of their contributions with a large bag of salt.

There's no traps, are there? It's more like accusations of faux outrage being chucked about because, dammit, that's much more fun to do than honestly address the actual subject matter.

Wish people would just admit it.


----------



## kenny g (Jun 11, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Wish people would just admit it.


What? That your meta analysis of the motivations of thread contributors is entirely correct?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2022)

kenny g said:


> What? That your meta analysis of the motivations of thread contributors is entirely correct?



That's an interesting, if slightly mischievous take. 

_Some people_, which was what was posted. A _dwindling number of members _might just find it fun to see the bickering take precedent over the beer company.

For instance, we all know that the company has dubious practices, unpleasant marketing "quirks" & a poor record of staff treatment but it adds much more color and gaiety to the proceedings to focus on the motivations of why posters take sides.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 11, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Any luck finding examples of gaslighting on this thread?



Clearly not.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 11, 2022)

The thread meta analysis has some bits that are correct, but also a few bits that aren't. I note that it also includes some gaslighting, at least if we are to accept the ultra broad definition of it that many seem to favour.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 11, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Any luck finding examples of gaslighting on this thread?



Guess he must have imagined it.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 11, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The thread meta analysis has some bits that are correct, but also a few bits that aren't. I note that it also includes some gaslighting, at least if we are to accept the ultra broad definition of it that many seem to favour.



Meta analysis? Christ


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 11, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The thread meta analysis has some bits that are correct, but also a few bits that aren't. I note that it also includes some gaslighting, at least if we are to accept the ultra broad definition of it that many seem to favour.



More _redefined_ than “ultra broad”.


----------



## pbsmooth (Jun 11, 2022)

Anyway, do Beavertown make an alcohol-free beer?


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Meta analysis? Christ



It's the new buzzword. We need a definition, of course.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Jun 11, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> It's the new buzzword. We need a definition, of course.



Is has a clear meaning in academia; namely research based on collating and comparing multiple primary sources.

What it doesn't mean is teuchter giving some kind of unasked-for verdict on the outcome of a thread; a verdict that's pompous even by his standards.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 11, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Is has a clear meaning in academia; namely research based on collating and comparing multiple primary sources.
> 
> What it doesn't mean is teuchter giving some kind of unasked-for verdict on the outcome of a thread; a verdict that's pompous even by his standards.


Blame kenny g for introducing the notion.

I do agree that krtek a houby's analysis was a little pompous.


----------



## kenny g (Jun 11, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Guess he must have imagined it.


That post wins the day! Funny as fuck and appears to be somewhat unrecognised...


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 11, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Blame kenny g for introducing the notion.
> 
> I do agree that krtek a houby's analysis was a little pompous.



Apologies for the pomposity. Please advise how to be more measured like you.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 11, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Any luck finding examples of gaslighting on this thread?


Why do you want examples?


----------



## nastyned (Jun 21, 2022)

More from the BBC: BBC Sounds - Good Ship BrewDog - Available Episodes


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 21, 2022)

nastyned said:


> More from the BBC: BBC Sounds - Good Ship BrewDog - Available Episodes



I’d thoroughly recommend all of these. 

Some are highly complimentary about BD. A few posters here will learn a bit from them.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 21, 2022)

aaand Brewdog approached Heineken about partial sale

The new BBC Scotland six-part podcast, Good Ship Brewdog, is now available on BBC Sounds. It features claims that:

Heineken walked away because Brewdog's valuation of the company was "outrageous"
TSG, Brewdog's US private equity partner, believed Mr Watt's valuation goal of the company was "not realistic"
Contributors to the BBC Disclosure documentary felt intimidated by legal threats and people they suspected were private investigators
The HR company Wiser, which carried out Brewdog's culture review, broke its promise to keep a former employee's interview anonymous


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 21, 2022)

Brewdog hiring private investigators to interrogate and follow former Brewdog staff doesn't sound very complimentary...


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Brewdog hiring private investigators to interrogate and follow former Brewdog staff doesn't sound very complimentary...



Listen to the pods.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2022)

ddraig said:


> aaand Brewdog approached Heineken about partial sale


Listen to the bullshit from the one who creeps out women:


> Leaked emails from 2018 reveal he told Heineken he was "open to being more pragmatic in our views on independence".
> He previously criticised craft brewers for "selling out" to bigger companies.



Welcome to the new green lairds:



> It shouldn’t be surprising that BrewDog co-founder James Watt shuns that term green laird. “I don’t think it applies to us,” he said in a recent interview with the Press & Journal. “The bottom line is, we as humans are going to have to plant a hell of a lot of trees over the next 25 to 30 years to help take carbon out of the atmosphere. That’s going to require change, and land to hold those trees.”
> 
> 
> But “green laird” is definitely what BrewDog has been labelled. As rural economy researcher Magnus Davidson put it in a tweet last week: “ The ownership of the estate qualifies the company for the moniker of ‘laird’ and the land use change to tree-planting and carbon sequestration ‘green’. BrewDog are ‘Green Lairds’ in theory and have earned the title by practice.”











						Vicky Allan: Brewdog: a punk way to save the world? Or just more green lairds?
					

DO we trust BrewDog to save the planet? That’s the question I find myself asking as the publicity ramps up for their planting of a million trees…




					www.heraldscotland.com


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 21, 2022)

So this BBC article which mentions the involvement of private investigators is wrong? 









						Brewdog approached Heineken about partial sale
					

Brewdog’s CEO was involved in preliminary discussions in 2018 about a potential sale of part of the beer firm.



					www.bbc.co.uk


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 21, 2022)

editor said:


> Listen to the bullshit from the one who creeps out women:
> 
> 
> Welcome to the new green lairds:
> ...


'heineken shares? I don't own any Heineken shares. Well, I did, but those were completely different Heineken shares'


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> So this BBC article which mentions the involvement of private investigators is wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Some of it is certainly at odds with a lot of what's on those podcasts.

I've thought there's more than a whiff of bullshit about the whole thing for a while now and the more I hear, the more I'm inclined to believe Mr Watt.


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 'heineken shares? I don't own any Heineken shares. Well, I did, but those were completely different Heineken shares'


Given all the other truth-shifting whoppers he's uttered in the past, you'd have to be a bit tick-tock to believe anything he says.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Jun 21, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> It will be very interesting to see how this case develops!


Definitely stand by this!


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 21, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Definitely stand by this!



Too right!

Looks there'll be a few red faces round here


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 21, 2022)

Honestly, I find it hard to believe that the women who've accused Watt of harassment would risk their reputation, future employment prospects and potential mental health unless there was something very much in what they're saying. Standing up to any (ex-)employer can be tough, and not without risk, but to someone with his money and social status can't have been easy.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 21, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Honestly, I find it hard to believe that the women who've accused Watt of harassment would risk their reputation, future employment prospects and potential mental health unless there was something very much in what they're saying. Standing up to any (ex-)employer can be tough, and not without risk, but to someone with his money and social status can't have been easy.


Funnily enough there's even a direct quote from one the male former employees saying similar in the BBC news article.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Some of it is certainly at odds with a lot of what's on those podcasts.
> 
> I've thought there's more than a whiff of bullshit about the whole thing for a while now and the more I hear, the more I'm inclined to believe Mr Watt.


You'd believe Watt if he said black was white, if only to wind up this thread.

He's been proven to lie on more than one occasion, the Heineken shares being just the latest instance.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Funnily enough there's even a direct quote from one the male former employees saying similar in the BBC news article.


I read that afterwards, true.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jun 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> You'd believe Watt if he said black was white, if only to wind up this thread.
> 
> He's been proven to lie on more than one occasion, the Heineken shares being just the latest instance.


It hertz


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 21, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> You'd believe Watt if he said black was white, if only to wind up this thread.
> 
> He's been proven to lie on more than one occasion, the Heineken shares being just the latest instance.



Have you heard the pods yet?

Ask yourself why the BBC is devoting so much energy to this. You're being led by your noses.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 21, 2022)

Reported in The National too. 



> Reports of Watt's willingness to sell to Heineken have prompted controversy as the brewing boss has previously been highly critical of other craft brewers for selling stakes to larger firms.



BrewDog courts controversy over pitching partial sale of firm to Heineken


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 21, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Reported in The National too.
> 
> 
> 
> BrewDog courts controversy over pitching partial sale of firm to Heineken



That's _The National,_ quoting the BBC, not supplementing it.


----------



## Dystopiary (Jun 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> That's _The National,_ quoting the BBC.


FARTS


----------



## xenon (Jun 21, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Have you heard the pods yet?
> 
> Ask yourself why the BBC is devoting so much energy to this. You're being led by your noses.



Go on, explain?

But , no, I'm not gonna listen to the pods to find out. Read my new book where I reveal all. 

If it takes a podcast series to denounce, rebutt, render all of the allegations groundless, Watt needs better lawyers and PR.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jun 22, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Honestly, I find it hard to believe that the women who've accused Watt of harassment would risk their reputation, future employment prospects and potential mental health unless there was something very much in what they're saying. Standing up to any (ex-)employer can be tough, and not without risk, but to someone with his money and social status can't have been easy.



It's as toxic as it gets.

The supporters of the company and management have no excuses at this stage.


----------



## two sheds (Jun 22, 2022)

They should ask themselves why the BBC is devoting so much energy to this. They're being led by their noses.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 22, 2022)

Revenue up by 31% last year and the employee profit share seem to paint a rather different picture to the agenda monkey one.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 22, 2022)

Meat Free Lager.  

You've got to hand it to these guys. They know how to exploit a fad!


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 22, 2022)

Interestingly from the above article it seems BD’s marketing department is largely headed by women. 

The plot thickens!


----------



## JimW (Jun 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Interestingly from the above article it seems BD’s marketing department is largely headed by women.
> 
> The plot thickens!


David Sullivan used to hire women to edit his grot mags. You've fallen for it again.


----------



## NoXion (Jun 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Interestingly from the above article it seems BD’s marketing department is largely headed by women.
> 
> The plot thickens!



"We can't be sexist, we have women working for us" has got big "I can't be racist, I have a black friend" energy.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 22, 2022)

This is like shelling peas


----------



## NoXion (Jun 22, 2022)

Parroting corporate pablum was never going to be all that difficult.


----------



## PR1Berske (Jun 22, 2022)

The time has come to unfollow this thread. 

We know what Brewdog is, we know the kind of sleazeballs they are, we know how "punk" they are. And as for "there's going to be red faces in this thread", I'm more bothered about the brown noses.


----------



## brogdale (Jun 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is like shelling peas


What "is like shelling peas"?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 23, 2022)

brogdale said:


> What "is like shelling peas"?


Expecting an answer from spy...


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 23, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Expecting an answer from spy...



Hiya! 

You’ve been quiet recently.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 23, 2022)

I’m not complaining, btw! 😜


----------



## hash tag (Jul 6, 2022)

Taking the piss?


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 6, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Taking the piss?
> View attachment 330795



Making it.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 6, 2022)

If James Watt is diagnosed as autistic, would it change anything?

I would say not really but I wonder what others think.









						BrewDog boss slammed for saying unconfirmed autism diagnosis may be behind ‘bullying'
					

BrewDog's CEO has been slammed for claiming he is seeking an autism diagnosis, which he suggests would answer questions of his behaviour.




					www.thedrinksbusiness.com


----------



## editor (Jul 6, 2022)

BrewDog boss slammed for saying unconfirmed autism diagnosis may be behind ‘bullying'
					

BrewDog's CEO has been slammed for claiming he is seeking an autism diagnosis, which he suggests would answer questions of his behaviour.




					www.thedrinksbusiness.com
				




You'd think most people with any dignity would quietly get properly diagnosed before blabbing to the press and promoting the condition as an excuse for his despicable behaviour and sexual harassment of young female staff. 



> One of the original members of Punks With Purpose, brewer Charlotte Cook told _db_: “Whilst seeking a diagnosis is a positive step, the workers at Brewdog did not live and work under James’ potential autism. The cultural issues were perpetuated under him and carried out by others, neurodivergency does not explain these ingrained cultural problems. Similarly, health conditions or anything that would affect work were not dealt with by a swift referral to a private doctor for the workers at Brewdog. I for one was told I’d need to take unpaid time off when I cried at work once, when my mental health was so poor I was suicidal. That anyone can preside over a culture that allows this and yet attempt to leverage his own tears for sympathy is beyond imagining.”





> Autism, which can sometimes be characterised by challenges with social skills, repetitive behaviours as well as differences in communicating has not yet been considered as reasoning for Watt’s behaviour towards others, however it is not and nor should it be directly linked to misconduct or sexual allegations.
> 
> Yeastie Boys co-founder Stu McKinlay said: “I’m not a psychologist/psychiatrist but I’ve spent a lot of time with them, and reading in that space, given I have three neurodiverse children. This fella displays more attributes of an antisocial personality disorder than any neurodiversity.”





> Others tweeting threw shade on Watt’s latest comments on autism, insisting the move was deflection of responsibility and, as _Raw Milk_ podcaster Callum James highlighted: “Autism does not make one a bully or a sex pest regardless” labelling the new line of defence from Watt as “a complete straw man”.



Guy's a complete fucking scumbag.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 6, 2022)

teuchter said:


> If James Watt is diagnosed as autistic, would it change anything?
> 
> I would say not really but I wonder what others think.
> 
> ...



It could potentially go a slight way to explaining his genius as a businessman if he joins the ranks of Elon Musk, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton et al ...


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 6, 2022)

Brewdog to open biggest bar in London. 

So no sign whatsoever that any of the conspiracy stuff has affected the business. Quite the opposite, in fact!


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It could potentially go a slight way to explaining his genius as a businessman if he joins the ranks of Elon Musk, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton et al ...


Elon Musk is a reasonably intelligent guy who had an extremely lucky start in life and was prepared to shit on anyone who got in his way to achieve his goals. Treats his employees and others like utter crap - I see no evidence of genius. (No idea whether he's autistic or not.) 

Albert Einstein probably was a genius. No proof he was autistic, only speculation. 

Isaac Newton was a genius. Again, there's only speculation that he was autistic, a lot of which is confused with the fact that he had mental health problems. 

It's a pretty clueless stereotype that autistic people are geniuses. Autistic traits might make it more likely in some cases for people to work diligently as something they're good at, but plenty of very intelligent people, or those who are exceptionally gifted, aren't on the autism spectrum. And vice versa. 

I sincerely doubt that you think Watt really is a genius. 😄


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It could potentially go a slight way to explaining his genius as a businessman if he joins the ranks of Elon Musk, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton et al ...


Except he is most likely not a genius in the world of business.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 8, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Except he is most likely not a genius in the world of business.



Pah!


----------



## seeformiles (Jul 21, 2022)

First it was beer, then it was burgers, then pizza and now, it’s axes (apparently):









						Leeds axe throwing venue to launch bottomless brunch session
					

Whistle Punks is offering a 'unique' experience




					www.leeds-live.co.uk


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 21, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> First it was beer, then it was burgers, then pizza and now, it’s axes (apparently):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Absolutely disgusting, shameless appropriation of the Viking culture


----------



## brogdale (Jul 21, 2022)

Who can forget this classic....as their workforce toiled away in 38C+ to keep the profits rolling.


----------



## Maggot (Jul 21, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> First it was beer, then it was burgers, then pizza and now, it’s axes (apparently):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Axe throwing and unlimited booze - what could possibly go wrong?


----------



## belboid (Jul 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Who can forget this classic....as their workforce toiled away in 38C+ to keep the profits rolling.
> 
> 
> View attachment 333748


Not to mention that avoiding alcohol was strongly recommended in such heat.  Murdering cunts


----------



## teuchter (Jul 21, 2022)

belboid said:


> Murdering cunts


Thread continues to provide melodrama cranked up to maximum.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Who can forget this classic....as their workforce toiled away in 38C+ to keep the profits rolling.
> 
> 
> View attachment 333748


Obvious but entirely appropriate response to the arseholes:


----------



## nastyned (Jul 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Who can forget this classic....as their workforce toiled away in 38C+ to keep the profits rolling.
> 
> 
> View attachment 333748


The reply from the Brewery Workers Union went viral:


----------



## brogdale (Jul 21, 2022)

_genius marketing_


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> _genius marketing_



I knew you’d get there eventually, Broggers


----------



## DaphneM (Jul 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Who can forget this classic....as their workforce toiled away in 38C+ to keep the profits rolling.
> 
> 
> View attachment 333748



Their pubs do have aircon  tho


----------



## brogdale (Jul 21, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Their pubs do have aircon  tho


They did say it was "too hot to work" tho


----------



## DaphneM (Jul 21, 2022)

brogdale said:


> They did say it was "too hot to work" tho


Yeah, but they are doing advertising via twitter tho


----------



## teuchter (Jul 21, 2022)

I wonder if anyone can find a brewery that wasn't murdering people by putting heatwave themed advertising out on social media. I note that "lost and grounded", the ones who were complaining about the Brewdog billboards outside their premises a while ago, were actively slaughtering innocent people via their Twitter feed too. The despicable genocidal despots.


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 21, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I wonder if anyone can find a brewery that wasn't murdering people by putting heatwave themed advertising out on social media. I note that "lost and grounded", the ones who were complaining about the Brewdog billboards outside their premises a while ago, were actively slaughtering innocent people via their Twitter feed too. The despicable genocidal despots.


Thanks for your genuine concern


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 21, 2022)

This thread reminds me of a fruit machine. 

Ding ... Ding ... Ding ...


----------



## teuchter (Jul 21, 2022)

krtek a houby said:


> Thanks for your genuine concern


Feel free to treat it all as a joke but anyone who drinks alcohol supports the murderous drinks industry in general and frankly has the blood of thousands on their hands. Speaking as someone who is 99% teetotal I personally am glad I am not involved in these killings. On the contrary by purchasing alcohol free beer including sometimes from brewdog I save lives by encouraging the production of harm free hydration providing beverages.


----------



## William of Walworth (Jul 21, 2022)

nastyned said:


> The reply from the Brewery Workers Union went viral:



The contents of the above appears on Twitter in much too small lettering for me to read!! 

Any way of rectifying? Thanks .....


----------



## teuchter (Jul 21, 2022)

William of Walworth said:


> The contents of the above appears on Twitter in much too small lettering for me to read!!
> 
> Any way of rectifying? Thanks .....


It's just a bunch of listings for various Brewdog bars showing that they were still open at the same time as someone in Brewdog's social media/PR office typed out a tweet saying "it's too hot to work".


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 22, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It's just a bunch of listings for various Brewdog bars showing that they were still open at the same time as someone in Brewdog's social media/PR office typed out a tweet saying "it's too hot to work".


No no no.

It’s a _massive_ gotcha, is what it really is! 

Someone was really pleased with themselves for finding that


----------



## brogdale (Jul 22, 2022)

Hardly a “gotcha” when there’s already plenty of evidence of their poor attitude towards their workers. It was, though, a SM gaff, emblematic of a hypocritical and uncaring approach towards their own workforce. 

The Wobblies were quite right to call out the double standards exhibited in their attempt to drum up trade.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 22, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Hardly a “gotcha” when there’s already plenty of evidence of their poor attitude towards their workers. It was, though, a SM gaff, emblematic of a hypocritical and uncaring approach towards their own workforce.
> 
> The Wobblies were quite right to call out the double standards exhibited in their attempt to drum up trade.



 Nonsense


----------



## NoXion (Jul 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Nonsense



Typical, no actual counter-argument, just straight up denial.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 22, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Typical, no actual counter-argument, just straight up denial.


next comes the faux


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 22, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Typical, no actual counter-argument, just straight up denial.



Balls


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 22, 2022)

“Counter argument” 🤣


----------



## UnderAnOpenSky (Jul 22, 2022)

Shouldn't really drink Triple Hazy on a school night...


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

seeformiles said:


> First it was beer, then it was burgers, then pizza and now, it’s axes (apparently):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've been to the one in London and the didn't have any alcoholic drinks on sale. The article doesn't mention alcohol does it?

Pretty sure that alcohol and throwing axes does not mix well


----------



## brogdale (Jul 22, 2022)

Cat Fan said:


> I've been to the one in London and the didn't have any alcoholic drinks on sale. The article doesn't mention alcohol does it?
> 
> Pretty sure that alcohol and throwing axes does not mix well


Apparently does in my local pox-park.


----------



## brogdale (Jul 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> “Counter argument” 🤣


Nice to see you're at least amusing one poster on this thread.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 22, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Nice to see you're at least amusing one poster on this thread.



Aye. The only one who matters. 😀


----------



## Cat Fan (Jul 22, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Apparently does in my local pox-park.


Nice!


----------



## krtek a houby (Jul 22, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Feel free to treat it all as a joke but anyone who drinks alcohol supports the murderous drinks industry in general and frankly has the blood of thousands on their hands. Speaking as someone who is 99% teetotal I personally am glad I am not involved in these killings. On the contrary by purchasing alcohol free beer including sometimes from brewdog I save lives by encouraging the production of harm free hydration providing beverages.


Your posts smell


----------



## Dystopiary (Jul 22, 2022)

William of Walworth said:


> The contents of the above appears on Twitter in much too small lettering for me to read!!
> 
> Any way of rectifying? Thanks .....



In response to Brewdog's tweet, 19th July, "Come on then, it's too hot to work. What are we all drinking right now?"

...Brewery Workers Union [at]BreweryUnion replied, "This you?"
Included are screenshots of online profiles of Brewdogs in Camden, Old Street, Clerkenwell, Shorditch, Seven Dials and Paddington. 
Highlighted are their closing times - all between 10PM and 12AM.


----------



## DaphneM (Jul 22, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> In response to Brewdog's tweet, 19th July, "Come on then, it's too hot to work. What are we all drinking right now?"
> 
> ...Brewery Workers Union [at]BreweryUnion replied, "This you?"
> Included are screenshots of online profiles of Brewdogs in Camden, Old Street, Clerkenwell, Shorditch, Seven Dials and Paddington.
> Highlighted are their closing times - all between 10PM and 12AM.


I think it’s just the standard Google search results with normal opening times which may not reflect the actuality.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I think it’s just the standard Google search results with normal opening times which may not reflect the actuality.


So they tweeted lies?  

Again.


----------



## DaphneM (Jul 22, 2022)

editor said:


> So they tweeted lies?
> 
> Again.


Surely you shouldn’t be contacting me as per terms of mutual ignore?


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Surely you shouldn’t be contacting me as per terms of mutual ignore?


Oh. forgive me. I forgot to set you to ignore. I'll sternly tell myself off now and hopefully never have to hear your trolling garbage again. 
And I'll overlook you responding publicly too.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 4, 2022)

NoXion said:


> "We can't be sexist, we have women working for us" has got big "I can't be racist, I have a black friend" energy.


Yep, internalised misogyny is very much a thing.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 4, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It could potentially go a slight way to explaining his genius as a businessman if he joins the ranks of Elon Musk, Albert Einstein, Isaac Newton et al ...


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 4, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> It will be very interesting to see how this case develops!


Kinda like the Heard/Depp trial?


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 4, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Honestly, I find it hard to believe that the women who've accused Watt of harassment would risk their reputation, future employment prospects and potential mental health unless there was something very much in what they're saying. Standing up to any (ex-)employer can be tough, and not without risk, but to someone with his money and social status can't have been easy.


Absolutely.


----------



## AmateurAgitator (Aug 4, 2022)

editor said:


> I'm struggling to think of any UK brewery that has accrued so many recent, deeply unsavoury allegations of lies, sexism and bullying with a toxic workplace culture and one that makes female staff feel uncomfortable in the presence of the boss.
> 
> Neither can I think of any other company that has had the sheer volume of complaints, or one that spied on their staff, or one that made up fake trade unions or fabricated bullshit PR stories to try and capitalise on the covid crisis. Or one that regularly tries to silence their critics by bullying and legal threats.
> 
> But if - as some people keep insisting - they're simply no different to any other UK brewery, then why aren't we hearing endless recent stories about all these other dodgy breweries in the national and international press, week after week?


Spot on.


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 5, 2022)

AmateurAgitator said:


> Spot on.











						Heineken claims its business helps Africa. Is that too good to be true?
					

The long read: The Dutch beer giant likes to blow its own trumpet about the economic and social benefits it brings to Africa – but revelations of sexual harassment and low pay show a different picture




					www.theguardian.com
				





https://movendi.ngo/news/2021/07/22/exposed-sexism-pervasive-in-craft-beer-industry/


----------



## brogdale (Aug 5, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Heineken claims its business helps Africa. Is that too good to be true?
> 
> 
> The long read: The Dutch beer giant likes to blow its own trumpet about the economic and social benefits it brings to Africa – but revelations of sexual harassment and low pay show a different picture
> ...


Whataboutery fail; Watt sort of wrong’un would plough half a mill of their own fortune into such an outfit?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 5, 2022)

This is outstanding stuff. 

Jame Watt is actively looking for Scottish businesses to invest in and support. It's fair to say he seems to have learnt a lot from recent issues and is now a pillar of the community.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is outstanding stuff.
> 
> Jame Watt is actively looking for Scottish businesses to invest in and support. It's fair to say he seems to have learnt a lot from recent issues and is now a pillar of the community.


Ah yes, Heineken N.V. with its well known focus on sustainability and personal wellness.


>


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 5, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Ah yes, Heineken N.V. with its well known focus on sustainability and personal wellness.



This is your problem, Broggers; you're too easily led by the nose by some of the people on this thread.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> This is your problem, Broggers; you're too easily led by the nose by some of the people on this thread.


Nice response


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 5, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Nice response



You should never respond this way on the boards. It's a concession to your interlocutor and a tacit acceptance of defeat.


----------



## furluxor (Aug 5, 2022)

Brodog is cringy as hell. Nanny State is a good tasting non-alcoholic beer but I rarely have it because I just can't stand the brewer. 

My vegetable stock brand also capitalizes on rebel-speak but somehow it just doesn't irk me as much. I briefly volunteered at a vegan/anarchist cafe back in the day and they had that sort of language, 'punk burger' etc. If they're still going in the same vein it must really piss them off how every corporate shithole has adopted that kind of branding nowadays.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 5, 2022)

furluxor said:


> Brodog is cringy as hell. Nanny State is a good tasting non-alcoholic beer but I rarely have it because I just can't stand the brewer.
> 
> My vegetable stock brand also capitalizes on rebel-speak but somehow it just doesn't irk me as much. I briefly volunteered at a vegan/anarchist cafe back in the day and they had that sort of language, 'punk burger' etc. If they're still going in the same vein it must really piss them off how every corporate shithole has adopted that kind of branding nowadays.



But would you agree with those on this thread who suggest that Brewdog is, in large part, responsible for the revival of the fortunes of the “Punk” movement, and responsible for the recent uplift in its image?


----------



## furluxor (Aug 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> But would you agree with those on this thread who suggest that Brewdog is, in large part, responsible for the revival of the fortunes of the “Punk” movement, and responsible for the recent uplift in its image?



What do you mean, I thought Brewdog _was_ the punk movement.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> But would you agree with those on this thread who suggest that Brewdog is, in large part, responsible for the revival of the fortunes of the “Punk” movement, and responsible for the recent uplift in its image?


This is your problem, Spyers; you're too easily led by the nose by some of the people on this thread.


----------



## xenon (Aug 5, 2022)

Spymaster Who's Mr Gorsky?

e2a Just Googled. Apparently a myth...


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 5, 2022)

two sheds said:


> This is your problem, Spyers; you're too easily led by the nose by some of the people on this thread.



Nah. Some of us were born to lead, and others to follow. It’s why you felt compelled to respond to my post.


----------



## two sheds (Aug 5, 2022)

and why you felt compelled to respond to MY post, and why I felt compelled to ... err ...


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 5, 2022)

xenon said:


> Spymaster Who's Mr Gorsky?
> 
> e2a Just Googled. Apparently a myth...



Of course it’s a myth 

In a biography he says that there were several occasions in his youth when people would say xxxx would happen when you walk on the moon. It was a common reference regarding seemingly impossible things back then, but blow jobs aren’t mentioned.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 5, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Feel free to treat it all as a joke but anyone who drinks alcohol supports the murderous drinks industry in general and frankly has the blood of thousands on their hands. Speaking as someone who is 99% teetotal I personally am glad I am not involved in these killings. On the contrary by purchasing alcohol free beer including sometimes from brewdog I save lives by encouraging the production of harm free hydration providing beverages.


99% teetotal means you're still drinking alcohol and therefore supporting the murderous drinks industry yourself.

And you're either teetotal  or you're not, you can't be mostly teetotal.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 5, 2022)

Brewdog supporting the vegan diet fad again.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 99% teetotal means you're still drinking alcohol and therefore supporting the murderous drinks industry yourself.
> 
> And you're either teetotal  or you're not, you can't be mostly teetotal.


every year he has an 87 hour bender


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Brewdog supporting the vegan diet fad again.


And your thoughts on the matter are what, exactly? You know the rule about content free posts.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> And your thoughts on the matter are what, exactly? You know the rule about content free posts.


Oh noes...simply saying this has offered _a concession to your interlocutor and a tacit acceptance of defeat.   _


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 5, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Oh noes...simply saying this has offered _a concession to your interlocutor and a tacit acceptance of defeat.  _


Oh noes indeed


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> And your thoughts on the matter are what, exactly? You know the rule about content free posts.



Ahhh, there you are Eggie! I was wondering how long it would take 

I think it's fantastic. What about you?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 5, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Oh noes...simply saying this has offered _a concession to your interlocutor and a tacit acceptance of defeat. _



Boom! That one really registered, didn't it????


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Ahhh, there you are Eggie! I was wondering how long it would take
> 
> I think it's fantastic. What about you?


The usual - I think they're only interested in veganism because it's become cool and is therefore a moneyspinner.


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> The usual - I think they're only interested in veganism because it's become cool and is therefore a moneyspinner.


Indeed. if it was something they actually cared about they would have adopted it years ago. Still, it looks like there's plenty of people still being suckered by their PR guff.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 6, 2022)

editor said:


> Indeed. if it was something they actually cared about they would have adopted it years ago. Still, it looks like there's plenty of people still being suckered by their PR guff.


Exactly. They only care about making as much money as they possibly can, without considering working conditions etc


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Aug 6, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Exactly. They only care about making as much money as they possibly can, without considering working conditions etc


Capitalism 101.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 6, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Exactly. They only care about making as much money as they possibly can, without considering working conditions etc



Anyone would think they’re running a business.


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 6, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> The usual - I think they're only interested in veganism because it's become cool and is therefore a moneyspinner.


I’d disagree that veganism is “cool” tbh


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 6, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Capitalism 101.


And? Did I say that it wasn't? Their working conditions are deplorable even for capitalists.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I’d disagree that veganism is “cool” tbh


In your opinion. But you can't deny veganism is more mainstream now.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I’d disagree that veganism is “cool” tbh


Do you have particular competences to act as an arbiter of what is cool or not? Intrigued to hear.


----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 6, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I’d disagree that veganism is “cool” tbh


So you think this move is bad for business?


----------



## editor (Aug 6, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> In your opinion. But you can't deny veganism is more mainstream now.


Plenty of people think it is cool









						Veganism is Now “Cool” According to Social Scientists
					

Australian researchers argue that media personalities and popular documentaries have shifted the perception of veganism from marginal to mainstream.




					vegnews.com
				






> Veganism has also found an influential ally in Instagram. "On Instagram, people make veganism look like a very desirable lifestyle... they always show pictures of vegan people looking beautiful and healthy," a teen revealed to _The Guardian_ when asked why she went vegan. A quick tour through the #vegan hashtag reveals image after image of lush spreads of colorful fruits and vegetables and the fit, good-looking people who allegedly follow this lifestyle. The messaging is clear: Eat vegan and this sun-bathed life of health, glowing skin, and a coveted figure can be yours.
> Veganism has even been given a sexed-up moniker. Marketers have begun using "vegan" and "plant-based" interchangeably, as in "plant-based diet," a term that Cohen said didn't exist when she opened Dirt Candy. The new branding helps reframe any preconceived notions someone might have towards veganism by making it sound less restrictive. It's not that you can't eat meat: you're just choosing to eat an abundance of plant-based foods.











						Why Vegetarians Will Never Be Cool
					

At least they get to eat cheese.




					www.thrillist.com


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> In your opinion. But you can't deny veganism is more mainstream now.


its mainstream, but not cool, its never been cool imho


----------



## brogdale (Aug 7, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> its mainstream, but not cool, its never been cool imho


Pushing the envelop of _humble _there.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> 99% teetotal means you're still drinking alcohol and therefore supporting the murderous drinks industry yourself.
> 
> And you're either teetotal  or you're not, you can't be mostly teetotal.


I'm 75% vegan and 90% vegetarian too.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 7, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> its mainstream, but not cool, its never been cool imho


If it's never been cool why are so many people embracing meat free products?


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 7, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> If it's never been cool why are so many people embracing meat free products?


People embrace Macdonalds but it is not cool.


----------



## dessiato (Aug 7, 2022)

I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian but I often eat meat free meals. I am a little cool?


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 7, 2022)

dessiato said:


> I'm neither vegan nor vegetarian but I often eat meat free meals. I am a little cool?


That sounds quite cool. So more than a little cool in my opinion


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 10, 2022)




----------



## brogdale (Aug 10, 2022)

But can’t you see the ‘genius marketing’😂


----------



## nastyned (Aug 10, 2022)

More podcasts: Super Punk Corporate Meltdown


----------



## AverageJoe (Aug 10, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I'm 75% vegan and 90% vegetarian too.


I guess my roast dinners are nearly 90% vegetarian too then. Chicken and then eight types of veg.

I could get the hang of this vegetarian lark.


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 10, 2022)

AverageJoe said:


> I guess my roast dinners are nearly 90% vegetarian too then. Chicken and then eight types of veg.
> 
> I could get the hang of this vegetarian lark.


It’s quite easy

I consider myself veganesque


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 11, 2022)

Yeah I don't think veganism quite works like that...


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 17, 2022)




----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 17, 2022)

Request to Brewdog to "cease perpetuating false allegations and perceived retaliation against former workers": 

 

"We have asked for months, where is the evidence?"


----------



## teuchter (Aug 17, 2022)

Is there anything new in all of that?

I thought we were currently awaiting the outcome of various court cases.


----------



## nastyned (Aug 18, 2022)

The court cases aren't against ex-brewdog workers, they're against an ex-girlfriend of the brewdog boss.


----------



## nastyned (Aug 18, 2022)

Not everyone's impressed by the new brewdog bar: Brewdog opened the biggest bar in London in Waterloo and its sparked a huge debate


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Not everyone's impressed by the new brewdog bar: Brewdog opened the biggest bar in London in Waterloo and its sparked a huge debate


What kind of shit 'bar' is this?


----------



## editor (Aug 18, 2022)

100% creepy cunt


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 18, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Not everyone's impressed by the new brewdog bar: Brewdog opened the biggest bar in London in Waterloo and its sparked a huge debate


It will be interesting to see what people think of it when it’s actually open?


----------



## nastyned (Aug 18, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> It will be interesting to see what people think of it when it’s actually open?


It's open now:


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 18, 2022)

nastyned said:


> It's open now:



Fair enough!


----------



## two sheds (Aug 18, 2022)

Was it the marketing department who threw him out?


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2022)

nastyned said:


> It's open now:



Shame there's so many anti-union, and presumably right-wing posters here who will still defend Brewdog.


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 19, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Fair enough!


it will be interesting to see what people think when its bee open longer than 24 hours!


----------



## teuchter (Aug 19, 2022)

Surely if the security people are actually having to stop people coming in, it demonstrates how popular the bar is? Even anarchists like that Twitter guy want to go in and check it out!


----------



## NoXion (Aug 19, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Surely if the security people are actually having to stop people coming in, it demonstrates how popular the bar is?



No. If the bar was full, then security wouldn't have let in to begin with. More likely security were told to kick out anyone with a leaflet.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 19, 2022)

NoXion said:


> No. If the bar was full, then security wouldn't have let in to begin with. More likely security were told to kick out anyone with a leaflet.


It says they were onto him as soon as he went through the door.

Even if it wasn't full, the fact that even that guy was keen to go in and buy a drink shows how wide the appeal of Brewdog is.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 19, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It says they were onto him as soon as he went through the door.



Because of what he was holding. Normally when a place is full, the staff will stop you from crossing the threshold, they don't kick you out after the fact of entering.



teuchter said:


> Even if it wasn't full, the fact that even that guy was keen to go in and buy a drink shows how wide the appeal of Brewdog is.



Is that why he was going in there? How do you know?


----------



## teuchter (Aug 19, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Is that why he was going in there? How do you know?


Why else would he be going in?


----------



## NoXion (Aug 19, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Why else would he be going in?



There are perfectly valid reasons to visit a business without necessarily patronising it. Meeting someone for example, or making an enquiry. Or maybe it's not his personal choice to visit, but he's doing it because it's required by his job or vocation. Unless that rando on Twitter has actually explained why he's visiting, any reasons are going to be speculative.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 19, 2022)

Outstanding value Brewdog subscription available now.

£150 bar voucher, free coffee every day, and free beer delivery, for £99/year.

Yet more brilliant marketing.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 19, 2022)

NoXion said:


> There are perfectly valid reasons to visit a business without necessarily patronising it. Meeting someone for example, or making an enquiry. Or maybe it's not his personal choice to visit, but he's doing it because it's required by his job or vocation. Unless that rando on Twitter has actually explained why he's visiting, any reasons are going to be speculative.


Well if course we can't know for sure. But any reasonable person would surely agree that on the balance of probabilities this is quite a strong indication that this new bar is going to be popular with anarchists and the like. I expect they are drawn to the "punk" aspect of the marketing, and maybe also the slide.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 19, 2022)

NoXion said:


> There are perfectly valid reasons to visit a business without necessarily patronising it. Meeting someone for example, or making an enquiry. Or maybe it's not his personal choice to visit, but he's doing it because it's required by his job or vocation. Unless that rando on Twitter has actually explained why he's visiting, any reasons are going to be speculative.



I reckon "to buy a drink" would be the top answer of "reasons why people go into a bar", on_ Family Fortunes. _


----------



## NoXion (Aug 19, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Well if course we can't know for sure. But any reasonable person would surely agree that on the balance of probabilities this is quite a strong indication that this new bar is going to be popular with anarchists and the like. I expect they are drawn to the "punk" aspect of the marketing, and maybe also the slide.



Your definition of "reasonable person" is completely fucked. Reasonable people don't extrapolate based on a single Twitter post.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 19, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Your definition of "reasonable person" is completely fucked. Reasonable people don't extrapolate based on a single Twitter post.


I guess that anyone extrapolating that the reason he was thrown out was that he was holding a leaflet is unreasonable then.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 19, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I guess that anyone extrapolating that the reason he was thrown out was that he was holding a leaflet is unreasonable then.



You've now switched to talking about what happened to one person, so that's no longer an extrapolation.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 19, 2022)

NoXion said:


> You've now switched to talking about what happened to one person, so that's no longer an extrapolation.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Aug 19, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I reckon "to buy a drink" would be the top answer of "reasons why people go into a bar", on_ Family Fortunes. _


Blimey, that's a bit radical.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 19, 2022)

NoXion said:


> You've now switched to talking about what happened to one person, so that's no longer an extrapolation.


Speculation then.

It's just a shame that a misjudgement by security operatives might have killed the bar's potential as a favoured hangout of anarchists and other radicals.


----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 19, 2022)

A handy compendium:


----------



## NoXion (Aug 19, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Speculation then.
> 
> It's just a shame that a misjudgement by security operatives might have killed the bar's potential as a favoured hangout of anarchists and other radicals.



I don't think it was a misjudgement by security at all. Why would they give a shit unless their paymasters told them to?


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Speculation then.
> 
> It's just a shame that a misjudgement by security operatives might have killed the bar's potential as a favoured hangout of anarchists and other radicals.


I think you'll find the beer, the prices, the company ethos and the daytime presence of bouncers did that anyway. And with better pubs ita anyway why @ists would need to resort to it I don't know


----------



## teuchter (Aug 19, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> I think you'll find the beer, the prices, the company ethos and the daytime presence of bouncers did that anyway. And with better pubs ita anyway why @ists would need to resort to it I don't know


I don't know of any other pubs in the area with a slide.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 19, 2022)

NoXion said:


> I don't think it was a misjudgement by security at all. Why would they give a shit unless their paymasters told them to?


It seems you have speculated your way to some conclusions about what the instructions from their paymasters were. Were those instructions "throw out anyone holding a leaflet"?


----------



## editor (Aug 19, 2022)

Still amazed at the right wing posters here supporting and promoting  an anti-union, multi-national company with a truly appalling record on bullying, harassment and intimidation - and making female staff members feel uncomfortable. 

Still, at least you know where they stand on such issues.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 19, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Surely if the security people are actually having to stop people coming in, it demonstrates how popular the bar is? Even anarchists like that Twitter guy want to go in and check it out!


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 19, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Were those instructions "throw out anyone holding a leaflet"?



... in an anarchistic manner


----------



## NoXion (Aug 19, 2022)

teuchter said:


> It seems you have speculated your way to some conclusions about what the instructions from their paymasters were. Were those instructions "throw out anyone holding a leaflet"?



Sure, why not? They're a bunch of union-busting cunts so they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 19, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Sure, why not? They're a bunch of union-busting cunts so they don't deserve the benefit of the doubt.


In my opinion, such a policy would be a misjudgment, and I'm not sure why others seem to disagree.


----------



## xenon (Aug 19, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Outstanding value Brewdog subscription available now.
> 
> £150 bar voucher, free coffee every day, and free beer delivery, for £99/year.
> 
> Yet more brilliant marketing.



...But only if you aren't holding any leaflets they don't like.


----------



## Pickman's model (Aug 19, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I don't know of any other pubs in the area with a slide.


i'm glad to see you confess your ignorance


----------



## brogdale (Aug 19, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Outstanding value Brewdog subscription available now.
> 
> £150 bar voucher, free coffee every day, and free beer delivery, for £99/year.
> 
> Yet more brilliant marketing.


Smells of cash-flow problems; encouraging.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Aug 19, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> ... in an anarchistic manner


What if you go in there brandishing an Anarchy leaflet?   Security will get all confused.


----------



## nastyned (Aug 20, 2022)

Report from Novara: Trouble’s Brewing: Man Claims He Was Kicked Out of BrewDog Bar Over Union Leaflet | Novara Media


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 20, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Report from Novara: Trouble’s Brewing: Man Claims He Was Kicked Out of BrewDog Bar Over Union Leaflet | Novara Media


Possibly a crisis actor?


----------



## teuchter (Aug 20, 2022)

So, they kicked him out because they thought he was going to stick anti Brewdog stickers inside the bar. And he was of course entirely unaware of this.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 20, 2022)

Nastyned doesn’t read what he’s posting properly and serves up a volley at the net line which is duly dispatched by Teuchter. 

Game set and match.


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Report from Novara: Trouble’s Brewing: Man Claims He Was Kicked Out of BrewDog Bar Over Union Leaflet | Novara Media


Brewdog scum calling the cops to stop people legally protesting outside against their shitty pub.

I imagine the right wing fanboys here approve of such a response as it's in line with the company's record on bullying and intimidation.


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 20, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Report from Novara: Trouble’s Brewing: Man Claims He Was Kicked Out of BrewDog Bar Over Union Leaflet | Novara Media


A spokesperson said: “This is not an accurate representation of what actually happened. We were alerted by our landlord that several individuals were caught on CCTV vandalising the surrounding property with strong adhesive stickers. These same individuals entered our bar and placed strong adhesive stickers on windows and in the toilets. These individuals were politely and calmly asked to leave the premises. Subsequently the centre landlord called the police regarding vandalism to their property. Police attended and moved about five individuals away from the immediate vicinity.”


----------



## teuchter (Aug 20, 2022)

The point here is really the deficit in critical thinking skills that allows people to read one anonymous person's tweet, and be completely happy to accept the explanation that he was asked to leave purely because he was "holding a leaflet".


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Aug 20, 2022)

Whatever your view of Brewdog the idea that someone who just happens to be a leftwing activist walked into the bar innocently holding a leaflet and was set upon by their hired goons  is obviously bullshit isn't it. I don't care if he wants to fuck with them tbh but don't pretend that's not what he's trying to do.


----------



## alex_ (Aug 20, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The point here is really the deficit in critical thinking skills that allows people to read one anonymous person's tweet, and be completely happy to accept the explanation that he was asked to leave purely because he was "holding a leaflet".



I’m Pretty sure this makes you a right wing fanboy


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Aug 20, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The point here is really the deficit in critical thinking skills that allows people to read one anonymous person's tweet, and be completely happy to accept the explanation that he was asked to leave purely because he was "holding a leaflet".


I know.  It's a little surprising that people are so naiive and so quick to believe stuff that they read on social media at face value!


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Aug 20, 2022)

alex_ said:


> I’m Pretty sure this makes you a right wing fanboy


It seems that not believing tabloid type stories makes one a right wing fanboy according to some!  😆


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 20, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> It seems that not believing tabloid type stories makes one a right wing fanboy according to some!  😆



Because they _want_ to believe it no matter how obviously bollocks it is.

Drone mentality.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Aug 20, 2022)

Pantomime villain!  Boo hiss


----------



## editor (Aug 20, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I know.  It's a little surprising that people are so naiive and so quick to believe stuff that they read on social media at face value!


Some people seem even quicker to totally believe Brewdog's press releases. A company with a well known record for lying.


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 20, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I know.  It's a little surprising that people are so naiive and so quick to believe stuff that they read on social media at face value!


The original “reporter” doesn’t exactly instill confidence tbh


----------



## nastyned (Aug 20, 2022)

RIP the brewdog slide:


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 20, 2022)

There's a honking great metaphor for Brewdog if ever I saw one. A giant artifice gleaming in the publicity photos but close -up its a damaged and restricted monument to ambition over functionality.


----------



## Part 2 (Aug 21, 2022)




----------



## Storm Fox (Aug 21, 2022)

nastyned said:


> RIP the brewdog slide:



When I glanced read that, I read it as No Drinks, No Headfirsts, One twat at a time.


----------



## Chilli.s (Aug 21, 2022)

see, brewing beer aint that hard and it needs to be dressed up as something to draw the punters in

Im whatyoucall inbetween beers atm. the brew that I used to drink, well the brewers family were rude to the staff at my pub of choice, so, after no apology was forthcoming, the pub cancelled their order for what must have amounted to several barrels of ale a month, no loss as theres plenty beer in the world


----------



## Cerv (Aug 21, 2022)

went to the new Waterloo branch last night cos they had the Futureheads on for an opening event party.
sadly the band did not enter via the infamous slide, despite it actually being in position to exit directly onto the stage.

the whole venue seems a bit naff. gimmicks like the slide and the first floor ice cream van are surely going to go soon once the novelty wears off. had all the charm an atmosphere of a regular airport / train station bar, but without the convenience of a live departures board.

then the power went off about 10 and we left before they had to start kicking everyone out.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 21, 2022)

So why exactly has the slide been put out of order, does anyone know?


----------



## Steel Icarus (Aug 21, 2022)

Say what you like about their shit business practices, but their "Pop Soda" Dark Cherry is the nicest soft drink I've ever had.


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 21, 2022)

Steel Icarus said:


> Say what you like about their shit business practices, but their "Pop Soda" Dark Cherry is the nicest soft drink I've ever had.


Apparently they do a Cosmic Cherry with alcohol in it but I’ve never seen it


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 21, 2022)

Steel Icarus said:


> Say what you like about their shit business practices, but their "Pop Soda" Dark Cherry is the nicest soft drink I've ever had.



They do a gin called Lonewolf, which is excellent too.


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 22, 2022)

So whilst drones on internet backwaters and bellends with stickers get themselves frothed-up about BD workers conditions, the reality is that more people than ever want to work for them, and they've already started paying out on the profit share scheme.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> So whilst drones on internet backwaters and bellends with stickers get themselves frothed-up about BD workers conditions, the reality is that more people than ever want to work for them, and they've already started paying out on the profit share scheme.


"_Brewdog reports..." "...applications are up by more than 75%..."_

Depending on the timeframe chosen, (pandemic starting point?), there'd be many businesses who could conjure up such figures that BD are using as evidence of the success of their 'punk' concept of paying staff for the work they do.


----------



## hitmouse (Aug 22, 2022)

Cerv said:


> went to the new Waterloo branch last night cos they had the Futureheads on for an opening event party.
> sadly the band did not enter via the infamous slide, despite it actually being in position to exit directly onto the stage.


Fucking hell, first BUPA and now this?



DaphneM said:


> The original “reporter” doesn’t exactly instill confidence tbh


What do you instill?


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 22, 2022)

brogdale said:


> "_Brewdog reports..." "...applications are up by more than 75%..."_
> 
> Depending on the timeframe chosen, (pandemic starting point?), there'd be many businesses who could conjure up such figures that BD are using as evidence of the success of their 'punk' concept of paying staff for the work they do.



 Keep clutching, Broggers, you're running out of straws though!


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 22, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The point here is really the deficit in critical thinking skills that allows people to read one anonymous person's tweet, and be completely happy to accept the explanation that he was asked to leave purely because he was "holding a leaflet".



Factor in the huge amount of prior knowledge of how shit they are as a company and the claim becomes a lot more credible though doesn't it.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Aug 22, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> So why exactly has the slide been put out of order, does anyone know?



Because having a slide that sends people shooting across a floor where people holding glasses and bottles will be walking is obviously a safety hazard?


----------



## teuchter (Aug 22, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Factor in the huge amount of prior knowledge of how shit they are as a company and the claim becomes a lot more credible though doesn't it.


Of course, prior knowledge and beliefs over-rode a reasonable assessment of the information provided. Avoiding this is exactly what critical thinking is all about.


----------



## NoXion (Aug 22, 2022)

The troll is lecturing the rest of us about critical thinking


----------



## Spymaster (Aug 22, 2022)

NoXion said:


> The troll is lecturing the rest of us about critical thinking



I'm not sure why people respond like this to Teuchter.

Myself aside, he is by far the most sensible and intelligent poster on this thread. I realise that's quite a low bar, but the fact remains ...


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 22, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Because having a slide that sends people shooting across a floor where people holding glasses and bottles will be walking is obviously a safety hazard?


True, but if anybody was paying attention it wouldn't have been installed in the first place. So did somebody vomit in it?


----------



## brogdale (Aug 22, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Keep clutching, Broggers, you're running out of straws though!


No, you're right; it's probably best just to believe the corporate tosh pumped out to the client (sectoral) press.


----------



## brogdale (Aug 22, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> True, but if anybody was paying attention it wouldn't have been installed in the first place. So did somebody vomit in it?


It is one of those _what could possibly go wrong _scenarios, isn't it?
A (deliberate) slide in a boozer.


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 22, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Fucking hell, first BUPA and now this?
> 
> 
> What do you instill?


Sorry I being an idiot. I meant inspire


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 22, 2022)

So Urban Christmas meetup at the Brewdog Waterloo then yeah?


----------



## hitmouse (Aug 22, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> Sorry I being an idiot. I meant inspire


Oh yeah, more than the word choice I just meant it seemed a bit funny to me that a pseduonymous internet poster would be saying that someone's not credible cos they're a pseudonymous internet poster. Fwiw, I've been aware of that person for a while, I think he's interesting on some things, a bit of an annoying dick sometimes, but I haven't seen anything that would suggest he's a fantasist given to making up easily-debunked falsehoods to smear the good name of Brewdog. It doesn't seem that far-fetched to me that an anarchist would happen to walk into a pub that some union people were giving out leaflets outside, although I admit the idea that someone might voluntarily want to drink in a Brewdog pub does sound a bit implausible.


----------



## dessiato (Aug 22, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> So Urban Christmas meetup at the Brewdog Waterloo then yeah?


Or Edinburgh for those of us up here.


----------



## Dystopiary (Aug 23, 2022)

Bet someone pissed in the slide or shat in it.


----------



## billy_bob (Aug 24, 2022)

Oh, this is a step too fucking far.




Geet fuckin shan, man


----------



## pogofish (Aug 27, 2022)

In Brewdog 2 right now, because I needed a sugary drink or have a hypo. 

Fierce Beer's staff from an event have just come in for a drink!


----------



## teuchter (Aug 27, 2022)

I don't know anything about Fierce Beer but now we know that all their staff are right wing Brewdog fanboys who condone sexism and workplace bullying I trust no one reading this will ever give them custom.


----------



## pogofish (Aug 27, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I don't know anything about Fierce Beer but now we know that all their staff are right wing Brewdog fanboys who condone sexism and workplace bullying I trust no one reading this will ever give them custom.


One of my colleagues is very pally with Fierce’s founders..!

He’s not a cunt.  

And the reason I chose Brewdog over a number of other pubs is because one is a longstanding “Police Pub”, another was mobbed, the third is a haunt for far-right types and the fourth is a Wetherspoons.

Least worst of a bad lot etc.


----------



## equationgirl (Aug 28, 2022)

pogofish said:


> One of my colleagues is very pally with Fierce’s founders..!
> 
> He’s not a cunt.
> 
> ...


Yeah, can't fault you for your logic here, especially because of potentially imminent hypo. Hope you are ok.


----------



## pogofish (Aug 28, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Yeah, can't fault you for your logic here, especially because of potentially imminent hypo. Hope you are ok.



Yes thanks.  I'd been working a parade and it had gone from cool to very hot just as we set-off.  I should have eaten a bit more to offset my morning insulin.


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 31, 2022)

BrewDog to close six pubs due to spiralling costs and 'no prospect of help from clueless government' 


Doubtlessly there will be much rejoicing over all the job losses…


----------



## billy_bob (Aug 31, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> BrewDog to close six pubs due to spiralling costs and 'no prospect of help from clueless government'
> 
> 
> Doubtlessly there will be much rejoicing over all the job losses…



You're an idiot.

Or more likely, a disingenuous shill. 

All of the people who've spent all this time on this thread explaining why they think BrewDog are a bunch of cunts have done so in large part because their staffing practice is appalling. So, blatantly obviously, we're not going to celebrate people losing their jobs, even if that job involves working for a bunch of cunts. For the record and FWIW, I know what it's like to work for cunts but desperately need to carry on doing so, and I'm genuinely sorry if anyone who wanted or needed to keep working there has lost a job there.

The people on your 'no, they're great, and who cares anyway as long as people like their beer' side of the equation are far more likely to be callously unconcerned about job losses.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Aug 31, 2022)

Apparently none of the Brewdog staff are going to lose thir jobs.  They've been offered jobs in other, nearby Brewdog pubs.


----------



## hitmouse (Aug 31, 2022)

pogofish said:


> And the reason I chose Brewdog over a number of other pubs is because one is a longstanding “Police Pub”, another was mobbed, the third is a haunt for far-right types and the fourth is a Wetherspoons.
> 
> Least worst of a bad lot etc.


Choosing to drink in a Brewdog pub when there's a Wetherspoons available right there? It truly does take all sorts to make a world.


----------



## pogofish (Aug 31, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Choosing to drink in a Brewdog pub when there's a Wetherspoons available right there? It truly does take all sorts to make a world.


I take it you've not been in that particular Spoons then..?

If it was the one at the other end of town, then yes I might well have but the saying "Warehouse for pissheads" could have been coined for it!


----------



## brogdale (Aug 31, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Apparently none of the Brewdog staff are going to lose thir jobs.  They've been offered jobs in other, nearby Brewdog pubs.


Although the staff at the six premises shutting may be redeployed (in the short-term) regrettably, along with many other hospitality workers, those working in BD pubs will soon be losing their jobs for the reasons that Watt is correct to point out.


----------



## PR1Berske (Aug 31, 2022)

All I know is, and if this thread is any guide, if you support Brewdog, then you're wrong.


----------



## DaphneM (Aug 31, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> Choosing to drink in a Brewdog pub when there's a Wetherspoons available right there? It truly does take all sorts to make a world.


I’d take the BrewDog owners over Tim Martin any day of the week


----------



## hitmouse (Aug 31, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> I’d take the BrewDog owners over Tim Martin any day of the week


How much is a pint of Ruddles or Doom Bar in Brewdog though?


----------



## Funky_monks (Aug 31, 2022)

I'm very glad I live in the (rural) west Midlands, with these on my doorstep and in my local (in spite of being deep in cider county) 
Welcome to Wye Valley Brewery (4 miles away)
Malvern Hills Brewery – Taste The Magic Of The Malverns (about 6 miles, I guess)

Of course, Westons is just down the road. 

Brewdog, indeed.


----------



## DaphneM (Sep 1, 2022)

hitmouse said:


> How much is a pint of Ruddles or Doom Bar in Brewdog though?


dunno


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Sep 1, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Although the staff at the six premises shutting may be redeployed (in the short-term) regrettably, along with many other hospitality workers, those working in BD pubs will soon be losing their jobs for the reasons that Watt is correct to point out.


Absolutely.


----------



## two sheds (Sep 1, 2022)

I think we're all in agreement here.


----------



## nastyned (Sep 1, 2022)

It looks like Brewdog shares have been selling at a rate that values the company at under half a billion quid than two billion. I think at the moment it's only possible to sell shares to other shareholders but still, doesn't look good for their planned sell off as at that price venture capitalists TSG own it all:


----------



## two sheds (Sep 1, 2022)

How come they're closing pubs if their marketing is so hot? 

/asking for a friend


----------



## brogdale (Sep 1, 2022)

two sheds said:


> How come they're closing pubs if their marketing is so hot?
> 
> /asking for a friend


Dunno, but as a guess...maybe folk tasted the product and checked their wallet after a night out in them?


----------



## DaphneM (Sep 2, 2022)

two sheds said:


> How come they're closing pubs if their marketing is so hot?
> 
> /asking for a friend


Massive energy price increases mainly i should think


----------



## two sheds (Sep 2, 2022)

But that's just another opportunity ...


----------



## LDC (Sep 8, 2022)

Kill me now for reading and posting an article from Vice, but thought it was very good. 









						I Spent the Day in a Giant BrewDog and Saw the Depressing Future of Pubs
					

70 percent of British pubs could be forced to close. Are weird "work drinks" mega-chains all we'll have left?




					www.vice.com


----------



## editor (Sep 8, 2022)

LDC said:


> Kill me now for reading and posting an article from Vice, but thought it was very good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Perfect for some posters here, apparently:


> The first thing you’ll immediately notice about the general “vibe” is that it’s basically a cross between a WeWork, an airport bar and a 24/7 supermarket. It’s kind of like if someone rebuilt the Tottenham IKEA but the theme was “Shoreditch 2010 to present day”. Or if you typed in “East London hipster tech startup, but a pub” into Dall-E Mini. An immersive Led By Donkeys live experience, with an original score by Mumford & Sons.





> I started with a beer called “Lost In Blood Orange” because blood orange is my favourite fruit, although it basically tasted like you were drinking the piss of someone who had drunk two cartons of blood orange juice.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 8, 2022)

LDC said:


> Kill me now for reading and posting an article from Vice, but thought it was very good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The article is sort of entertaining but has a slightly snooty tone, no? He is basically saying it's for people less cultured than him ... the kind of people that would drink an IPA (how awful). He says at the end that it appears to be busy and popular.


----------



## DaphneM (Sep 8, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The article is sort of entertaining but has a slightly snooty tone, no? He is basically saying it's for people less cultured than him ... the kind of people that would drink an IPA (how awful). He says at the end that it appears to be busy and popular.


he liked the food & the ice cream


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 8, 2022)

teuchter said:


> The article is sort of entertaining but has a slightly snooty tone, no? He is basically saying it's for people less cultured than him ... the kind of people that would drink an IPA (how awful). He says at the end that it appears to be busy and popular.



The title is quite revealing. 

He spent the whole day there.


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 8, 2022)

I hate to agree with the wrong side here, but the guy looks like he's late 30s at best and tbf, if you spend the _whole _day drinking IPA-strength pints at that age, you're going to look back on _wherever _you were while you did it with somewhat mixed emotions.


----------



## PR1Berske (Sep 8, 2022)

He spent all day there for his job and found out depressing, overpriced, tasteless and worrying for the future of actual pubs selling real beer. Even the two remaining fans on this thread can't deny that.


----------



## scalyboy (Sep 21, 2022)

Apologies if this has already been answered, but - this Brewgooder ‘Brewed on Purpose’ beer; is it connected at all to the ‘Punks with Purpose’ Brewdog employees (ex-employees now?) who signed the joint letter re. the company’s toxic culture, bravely raising their heads above the parapet to declare that all was not well on board ship.
It seems too close to be coincidence -brewed in the Highlands too! So is it being made by disgruntled or sacked former Brewdog employees?

The blurb on the back of the cardboard pack explains that every sale benefits a clean drinking water programme in the developing world; sales of another of their beers helped raise funds for a food bank IIRC. 
This particular lager I didn’t enjoy as much as an IPA they make, but … Fair play to em, whoever they are.

And I’ve seen their beers on the shelves of more than one Co-Op, so if they’ve negotiated distribution in Co-Op branches up & down the land, that’s a big deal, I should think?


----------



## teuchter (Sep 21, 2022)

They were set up in some sort of partnership with Brewdog originally, it would seem, so unfortunately your beers are tainted and if you care in the slightest about workers' rights you're going to have to pour them down the drain.


----------



## scalyboy (Sep 22, 2022)

teuchter said:


> They were set up in some sort of partnership with Brewdog originally, it would seem, so unfortunately your beers are tainted and if you care in the slightest about workers' rights you're going to have to pour them down the drain.


😆I’ll use it in the garden for my slug traps 👍🏻
Thanks for the info anyway.


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 22, 2022)

I'm not quite clear _how _connected with BrewDog they are. I bought a four-pack from my Co-op recently - it does taste very like a BrewDog brew so I can't see it becoming one of my favourites. But on the face of it, even if BD are using them for a bit of greenwashing, they do look like a good cause in their own right.

BrewDog founders support cleanwater charity beer


----------



## scalyboy (Sep 22, 2022)

SpookyFrank said:


> Because having a slide that sends people shooting across a floor where people holding glasses and bottles will be walking is obviously a safety hazard?


I misread this as:
“a slide that sends people _shitting_ across a floor…”
 and envisaged two scenarios:

 1. slide users are so terrified at the speed and twisting, turning nature of the slide - like Coney Island’s venerable Cyclone - that they lose control of their bowels 

2. In a nefarious deal with a covert, shadowy US military intelligence organisation, James Watt is using his new showcase Brewdog bar as a testing ground for sonic weaponry, whose subsonic beats cause punters to lose control over their bowels…

(in my defence, I am easily amused - and may still be pissed from last night’s consumption of various non-Brewdog ales 😆)


----------



## scalyboy (Sep 22, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I'm not quite clear _how _connected with BrewDog they are. I bought a four-pack from my Co-op recently - it does taste very like a BrewDog brew so I can't see it becoming one of my favourites. But on the face of it, even if BD are using them for a bit of greenwashing, they do look like a good cause in their own right.
> 
> BrewDog founders support cleanwater charity beer


Interesting… I was chatting with a staff member at a Waterstones branch last year.

I explained proudly how I use Amazon’s site to check book titles and availability, but then go to abebooks.co.uk and buy from one of the independent (or huge multinational warehouse) bookshops listed there.

Ah, he said, but did you know that Amazon own abebooks?
So they get you either way, the bastards!


----------



## teuchter (Sep 22, 2022)

scalyboy said:


> Interesting… I was chatting with a staff member at a Waterstones branch last year.
> 
> I explained proudly how I use Amazon’s site to check book titles and availability, but then go to abebooks.co.uk and buy from one of the independent (or huge multinational warehouse) bookshops listed there.
> 
> ...


As long as you can write on the internet that you don't buy from Amazon's website though, it doesn't matter. Most people aren't interested in the details so you'll still look good.


----------



## scalyboy (Sep 22, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> I'm not quite clear _how _connected with BrewDog they are. I bought a four-pack from my Co-op recently - it does taste very like a BrewDog brew so I can't see it becoming one of my favourites. But on the face of it, even if BD are using them for a bit of greenwashing, they do look like a good cause in their own right.
> 
> BrewDog founders support cleanwater charity beer


I’ve got their Helles-type lager on the go at the moment, and am sure I also bought a Brewgooder IPA some weeks ago … have you seen if they do any other styles?


----------



## scalyboy (Sep 22, 2022)

teuchter said:


> As long as you can write on the internet that you don't buy from Amazon's website though, it doesn't matter. Most people aren't interested in the details so you'll still look good.


😎


----------



## T & P (Sep 22, 2022)

scalyboy said:


> Interesting… I was chatting with a staff member at a Waterstones branch last year.
> 
> I explained proudly how I use Amazon’s site to check book titles and availability, but then go to abebooks.co.uk and buy from one of the independent (or huge multinational warehouse) bookshops listed there.
> 
> ...


Try Biblio.co.uk. They're not as big as Abebooks but most dealers who list their books on the latter also do on the former. And Biblio is completely unassociated with Amazon.


----------



## scalyboy (Sep 22, 2022)

T & P said:


> Try Biblio.co.uk. They're not as big as Abebooks but most dealers who list their books on the latter also do on the former. And Biblio is completely unassociated with Amazon.


Nice one! Thanks for the tip - i will bookmark them now


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 22, 2022)

I use hive.co.uk - also Amazon-free ... as far as I know.


----------



## teuchter (Sep 22, 2022)

Both of those websites sell and propagate Brewdog propaganda.

So, sorry but unless you are a rightwing Brewdog fanboi there is no option but to boycott them both. Cancel your accounts now, and write to them demanding that they stop selling that kind of material.









						brewdog search results
					






					www.hive.co.uk
				








__





						brewdog - Biblio.co.uk
					

Be. More. BrewDog. by James Watt.  Hardback. New.  Rip up the rule book the BrewDog way!  Iconic, controversial, and hugely colourful, BrewDog has never done business the way other companies do....




					biblio.co.uk


----------



## nastyned (Sep 22, 2022)

It seems an influence went to a brew dog bar and then thought better of it: Watch this story by Lily Pebbles on Instagram before it disappears.


----------



## billy_bob (Sep 22, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Both of those websites sell and propagate Brewdog propaganda.
> 
> So, sorry but unless you are a rightwing Brewdog fanboi there is no option but to boycott them both. Cancel your accounts now, and write to them demanding that they stop selling that kind of material.
> 
> ...



You really are a big baby.


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 22, 2022)




----------



## Funky_monks (Sep 22, 2022)

If you want Helles lager (festbier), Aldi have Spaten and Pauliner in honor of the upcoming Oktoberfest. £1.79/500ml, I think.


----------



## equationgirl (Sep 24, 2022)

I find it curious that Watt chose to close 6 smaller, mostly regional bars shortly after opening his Waterloo airport hangar bar, energy costs rising would surely be astronomical for the Waterloo site?


----------



## Spymaster (Sep 24, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> I find it curious that Watt chose to close 6 smaller, mostly regional bars shortly after opening his Waterloo airport hangar bar, energy costs rising would surely be astronomical for the Waterloo site?



They'd have made the call based on the profitability of the sites rather than their size or locations.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 2, 2022)

I just went down the slide at Brewdog Waterloo - a three year old made me do it.

This is the first time I've been in a Brewdog bar.


----------



## Chilli.s (Oct 2, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I just went down the slide at Brewdog Waterloo - a three year old made me do it.
> 
> This is the first time I've been in a Brewdog bar.


a valid reason


----------



## scalyboy (Oct 3, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I just went down the slide at Brewdog Waterloo - a three year old made me do it.
> 
> This is the first time I've been in a Brewdog bar.


Are punters allowed to take alcoholic drinks 'on board' with them while on the slide, or is like at northern soul all-nighters, "no drinks on the dance floor"?


----------



## teuchter (Oct 3, 2022)

scalyboy said:


> Are punters allowed to take alcoholic drinks 'on board' with them while on the slide, or is like at northern soul all-nighters, "no drinks on the dance floor"?


I don't remember seeing any instructions about this. Nor do I recall seeing any punters taking their drinks with them. However a large proportion of the punters were under the age of five. There was a dog too I think.


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 3, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> They'd have made the call based on the profitability of the sites rather than their size or locations.


But, but, but the genius of their marketing!!! How could any Brewdog site be unprofitable???


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 3, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> But, but, but the genius of their marketing!!! How could any Brewdog site be unprofitable???



What an astoundingly stupid post for someone who claims to be commercially aware.

The mask slips, Eggie, you old fraud  !


----------



## teuchter (Oct 3, 2022)

I don't understand the focus on trying to argue against the idea that Brewdog marketing is effective.

To me, you would point out that a company's marketing is very effective if you think the actual product is very mediocre and yet they seem to be able to sell it in great quantity.

Can anyone explain?

Maybe trying to downplay the effectiveness of the marketing is in fact a way to sneakily promote the idea that the product is actually great - so great that it is really popular in spite of ropey marketing.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 3, 2022)

Are people arguing that? I thought it was more taking the piss because the marketing is supposed to be good but that's not what is really important. More the treatment of staff for example.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 3, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Are people arguing that? I thought it was more taking the piss because the marketing is supposed to be good but that's not what is really important. More the treatment of staff for example.


Well, there are 207 pages of argument on a thread that's specifically about their marketing approach.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 3, 2022)

teuchter said:


> Well, there are 207 pages of argument on a thread that's specifically about their marketing approach.


Ah I see your misunderstanding it then, it's broader than that.

It's about the company pretending to be all 'rebel' in its marketing when they're actually very different, and not at all 'rebel' in the way that they'd like people to think.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 3, 2022)

There's an obvious difference between arguing that their marketing is especially disingenuous and at odds with their actual business practice, and arguing that it hasn't been effective. Obviously their product is widely stocked and bought, so in terms of profit, which is their priority, it's effective.

The fact that it's (in some people's opinion, anyway) a mediocre product isn't really relevant to that. Lots of mediocre things are very popular, and how well they're marketed isn't the only factor in that.


----------



## nastyned (Oct 3, 2022)

Their Health and Safety ain't great: Brewdog served with HSE improvement notice following three safety breaches


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 4, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> What an astoundingly stupid post for someone who claims to be commercially aware.
> 
> The mask slips, Eggie, you old fraud  !


Oh, you're trotting out the stupidity card and calling me Eggie like we're mates or something.  I guess you're not feeling very creative today.

You seem to be missing the point that if their marketing is as effective at selling their products as they want everyone to think it is, why did they close six branches at the same time as opening the largest bar in Europe (or whatever it is)?

If the six branches weren't profitable in this economy, six much smaller places, how will a megabar in London suddenly be profitable overnight? Even with a steal on the property lease due to the pandemic, the rising energy costs could easily wipe out any gains, not to mention food costs, overheads, staff costs.

Any thoughts other than 'the smaller bars aren't profitable?' your Spymaster spyness?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 4, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Their Health and Safety ain't great: Brewdog served with HSE improvement notice following three safety breaches


Oooh naughty. Looks like they're a dropped match away from wiping out Ellon...


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 4, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Any thoughts other than 'the smaller bars aren't profitable?' your Spymaster spyness?



Quite a few but someone like you just wouldn't understand.

I'll give you a clue though so you can try to work it out for yourself:



> Any thoughts other than 'the smaller bars aren't profitable?'



Think about the inaccuracy of what you've posted here?


----------



## teuchter (Oct 4, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> If the six branches weren't profitable in this economy, six much smaller places, how will a megabar in London suddenly be profitable overnight? Even with a steal on the property lease due to the pandemic, the rising energy costs could easily wipe out any gains, not to mention food costs, overheads, staff costs.



If you don't think the closures were decided on the basis of profitability .... what is it that you think determined their decisions?


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 5, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Quite a few but someone like you just wouldn't understand.
> 
> I'll give you a clue though so you can try to work it out for yourself:
> 
> ...


Oh you're doing that up your own arse thing trying to look clever but not actually answering any questions. You know that makes you look like a smug twat?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> You know that makes you look like a smug test?



That's because I'm the smug test king!

Have you figured out where you've gone wrong yet?


----------



## PR1Berske (Oct 5, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> Oh you're doing that up your own arse thing trying to look clever but not actually answering any questions. You know that makes you look like a smug twat?


It appears to me that, quite like the reported behaviour within Brewdog itself, any woman who dares speak up on this thread is immediately harassed.

I don't know, honestly, why Spymaster and teuchter are so obsessed with defending Brewdog, or demanding answers from others when they rarely answer themselves, only to say that the schtick is looking very worn and tired and maybe we could all do well to let this thread gather cobwebs for the time being. Nobody comes out of threads like this looking well if back and forths never reach a conclusion.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 5, 2022)

_Any_ woman?

There's only one on this thread that I'm aware of (apart from EoY, who's perfectly reasonable) and she's the one doing the harrassing. She's just not very good at it and it keeps backfiring!


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 5, 2022)

You're not as good at it as you think you are yourself. More often than not, the pair of you sound like braying dickheads propping up the golf club bar. And no doubt you'll give this a cry-laughing emoji and imagine you've defeated me because it proves you don't care what I say.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 6, 2022)

How come this news didn't make it to the thread last week?



> BrewDog chief executive James Watt has revealed the “considerable distress and anxiety” he suffered during an online smear campaign which also saw him scammed out of £100,000.
> 
> Lord Brailsford ruled in his favour at Edinburgh’s Court of Session and ordered Emili Ziem to repay him the money, plus more than £500,000 in expenses.
> 
> The judge stated that she conducted a scam which set up fake social media pages to spread damaging online rumours about the brewery boss.











						BrewDog boss wins case against online troll scammer
					

A judge at the Court of Session ruled in his favour and has ordered the repayment of more than £500,000 in expenses




					www.insider.co.uk


----------



## brogdale (Oct 6, 2022)

teuchter said:


> How come this news didn't make it to the thread last week?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I guess you'd missed it?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 6, 2022)

Watt appears to be very gullible


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 6, 2022)

teuchter said:


> How come this news didn't make it to the thread last week?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Indeed:



> The judge stated that she conducted a scam which set up fake social media pages to spread damaging online rumours about the brewery boss.



And all the little drones on here have been falling for it too.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> And all the little drones on here have been falling for it too.


How can you know that "all the little drones have been falling" for her specific pages?
Perhaps you'd be able to point to where that's happened on the thread?


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 6, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> It appears to me that, quite like the reported behaviour within Brewdog itself, any woman who dares speak up on this thread is immediately harassed.



It is interesting, isn't it, to compare responses. Two of my last three posts have directly insulted the two people you mention and they've been ignored apart from one ambiguous emoji. Maybe they 'don't want to give me the satisfaction' - and that's fair enough, but it's very different to the immediate ridiculing and patronising of equationgirl for her recent criticism of one of them.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> It is interesting, isn't it, to compare responses. Two of my last three posts have directly insulted the two people you mention and they've been ignored apart from one ambiguous emoji. Maybe they 'don't want to give me the satisfaction' - and that's fair enough, but it's very different to the immediate ridiculing and patronising of equationgirl for her recent criticism of one of them.



Different posters require different handling. You react better when ignored.

You really do take this thread rather too seriously!


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Watt appears to be very gullible


Remarkably so.


----------



## Dystopiary (Oct 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Indeed:
> 
> 
> 
> And all the little drones on here have been falling for it too.


Bullshit.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Different posters require different handling. You react better when ignored.
> 
> You really do take this thread rather too seriously!



If you mean I'm sitting at home fuming or sobbing and unable to get on with my life because of something you or teuchter have said on it, sorry to disappoint you but no.

I take it seriously to the extent that some of the issues are serious, but please be assured I don't need you to handle me at all


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 6, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> … I don't need you to handle me at all



Yes, but your needs are subjacent to my desires


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Different posters require different handling. You react better when ignored.
> 
> You really do take this thread rather too seriously!


So you're basically admitted you're harassing me because 'i need different handling'? Harassment is ok in your book?

And this is why there's very few women in this forum these days.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 6, 2022)

equationgirl said:


> So you're basically admitted you're harassing me because 'i need different handling'? Harassment is ok in your book?
> 
> And this is why there's very few women in this forum these days.



I'm harrassing you? Are you kidding?  

Most of my responses to you are as a result of _you tagging or quoting me_. This latest episode seems to have started at #6190 where you tried a snide comeback to a genuine response and have ended up with Eggie on your face!

And stop harping on about this women thing. I get on fine with pretty much every other woman here. It's not about women, it's about you!


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I'm harrassing you? Are you kidding?
> 
> Most of my responses to you are as a result of _you tagging or quoting me_. This latest episode seems to have started at #6190 where you tried a snide comeback to a genuine response and have ended up with Eggie on you face!
> 
> And stop harping on about this women thing. I get on with pretty much every woman here. It's not about women, it's about you!


So you admit you have a problem with me? There's only one poster with egg on their face and that's you - you're a grown man so act like it. You can't defend your ridiculous love of Brewdog so you're resorting to snide putdowns and being evasive when asked a direct question.

You have a problem when challenged by a woman. Your ego can't handle it. Own it.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 6, 2022)

"Challenged by a woman". Is that what you think you're doing? Get over yourself. 

And I don't think it's any secret that we've _had a problem_ with each other for years!


----------



## pogofish (Oct 6, 2022)

This should go well:












						PressReader.com - Digital Newspaper & Magazine Subscriptions
					

Digital newsstand featuring 7000+ of the world’s most popular newspapers & magazines. Enjoy unlimited reading on up to 5 devices with 7-day free trial.




					www.pressreader.com
				











						Jeremy Clarkson visits BrewDog in Ellon after launching own brewing brand
					

TV presenter and farm owner Jeremy Clarkson has made a visit to Brewdog's HQ in Ellon. An Instagram post shared earlier today, shows the former Top Gear




					www.pressandjournal.co.uk


----------



## editor (Oct 6, 2022)

pogofish said:


> This should go well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A truly perfect match of cunts.


----------



## two sheds (Oct 6, 2022)

Kiss of death clearly 









						Jeremy Clarkson told to shut his farm’s restaurant and cafe
					

West Oxfordshire council says setup at Diddly Squat farm is ‘visually intrusive and harmful’




					www.theguardian.com


----------



## brogdale (Oct 6, 2022)

brogdale said:


> How can you know that "all the little drones have been falling" for her specific pages?
> Perhaps you'd be able to point to where that's happened on the thread?


Obviously not.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 6, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Yes, but your needs are subjacent to my desires



Likes big words where simple ones would do. Has shaky grasp of the idea of consent.

Yeah, that checks out.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 6, 2022)

pogofish said:


> This should go well:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Personally not sure his ad should've been banned:


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> It will be very interesting to see how this case develops!


Oh, it's so good to be proved right.    There was a smear campaign against the Brewdog bloke all along, and so many people were far too quick to believe it!


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Oh, it's so good to be proved right.    There was a smear campaign against the Brewdog bloke all along, and so many people were far too quick to believe it!



Totally!

But I've a feeling nobody here in Drone Central will admit it.

But, but, but ....


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

Free beer on Jimmy, everyone!

Just scan the barcode Free pints from BrewDog CEO


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Oh, it's so good to be proved right.    There was a smear campaign against the Brewdog bloke all along, and so many people were far too quick to believe it!



Logic fail.

Clearly someone was out to get him, and they're at fault for that. That doesn't prove everything he does is just great.

(Don't know about you, but if I think about who I might be most likely to resort to conducting a smear campaign against, it tends to be people who are behaving like cocks already, without my help  )


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> (Don't know about you, but if I think about who I might be most likely to resort to conducting a smear campaign against, it tends to be people who are behaving like cocks already, without my help  )



But, but, but ...

You'd better watch your back then, Billy boy! 😉


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Logic fail.
> 
> Clearly someone was out to get him, and they're at fault for that. That doesn't prove everything he does is just great.
> 
> (Don't know about you, but if I think about who I might be most likely to resort to conducting a smear campaign against, it tends to be people who are behaving like cocks already, without my help  )


Nobody has said that everything he does is just great.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Nobody has said that everything he does is just great.



Well ok, so the majority of criticism on this thread still stands.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Well ok, so the majority of criticism on this thread still stands.


Apart from the smear campaign which made up all those accusations of harrassment of female employees and other criminal activities.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Well ok, so the majority of criticism on this thread still stands.



Actually, no. It _brings into question_ the majority of criticism on this thread. 

We know, beyond reasonable doubt, that this thread and the majority of criticism on it was motivated by the company's use of "Punk" in their advertising. You drones were subsequently aroused and excited by the accusations of supposed impropriety reported by disgruntled employees, which have now been thoroughly discredited in court, just as Liz predicted. 

Really, that just leaves "Punk"!


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Apart from the smear campaign which made up all those accusations of harrassment of female employees and other criminal activities.


So you're saying that he has never harassed or intimated any female employees?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

BD set to open their biggest ever venue in Las Vegas BrewDog set to open largest bar to date and first visitors could win a $1 million tab

Incredibly impressive business


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> So you're saying that he has never harassed or intimated any female employees?


Am I?


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Am I?


Oh so you actually agree that he's a fucking creep who has harassed and intimidated female employees from his position of power. In which case, why the fuck are you defending the sleazy cunt?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> Oh so you actually agree that he's a fucking creep who has harassed and intimidated female employees from his position of power. In which case, why the fuck are you defending the sleazy cunt?


Do I?


----------



## nastyned (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Apart from the smear campaign which made up all those accusations of harrassment of female employees and other criminal activities.


Despite the way he attempts to conflate matters James Watt's court case does not relate to anything said by the ex-BrewDog staff in Punks with Purpose, or the BBC documentary that followed. It's about an ex-girlfriend of his that he paid to spy on ex-BrewDog staff.


----------



## JimW (Oct 26, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Despite the way he attempts to conflate matters James Watt's court case does not relate to anything said by the ex-BrewDog staff in Punks with Purpose, or the BBC documentary that followed. It's about an ex-girlfriend of his that he paid to spy on ex-BrewDog staff.


I was going to joke that the smear campaign will have been something he dreamed up to discredit those with a genuine grievance but sounds it's not far from the truth.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Despite the way he attempts to conflate matters James Watt's court case does not relate to anything said by the ex-BrewDog staff in Punks with Purpose, or the BBC documentary that followed. It's about an ex-girlfriend of his that he paid to spy on ex-BrewDog staff.


I think the court case has a lot to do with the accusations made against him.

"BrewDog chief executive James Watt has revealed the “considerable distress and anxiety” he suffered during an online smear campaign which also saw him scammed out of £100,000.

Lord Brailsford ruled in his favour at Edinburgh’s Court of Session and ordered Emili Ziem to repay him the money, plus more than £500,000 in expenses.

The judge stated that she conducted a scam which set up fake social media pages to spread damaging online rumours about the brewery boss.

Ziem then conned him into paying £25,000 a time to unmask the ‘trolls’.

They first made contact in 2020 on Instagram and met on several occasions. In May 2021, many of Watt’s Instagram friends received direct messages about him from an account under the name Laura Keller, stating that he had “misled” women.

Some of the allegations accused him of criminality which he denied in court.


In a post on LinkedIn, Watt explained: “Ziem said she could help me identify the people responsible for spreading false and malicious lies about me via troll accounts and asked for payment to do so - I was desperate to stop this horrific abuse, so I paid up.

“What we now know, and the court has found, is that she was actually one of the perpetrators and was operating an extremely active troll account against me as part of a dedicated network looking to ‘take James down’ (her words).

“She gave me knowingly false information with the sole intention of deceiving me into agreeing to pay her - she was, in fact, a key part of a network involved in a campaign to do as much damage to me and my business as possible, spreading false and defamatory information with the objective of destroying me personally and damaging our business.“

After paying her four times, Watt grew suspicious and hired a cyber private detective who exposed Ziem as being behind the accounts.










						BrewDog boss wins case against online troll scammer
					

A judge at the Court of Session ruled in his favour and has ordered the repayment of more than £500,000 in expenses




					www.insider.co.uk


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I think the court case has a lot to do with the accusations made against him.


They're SEPERATE THINGS, FFS. 

Unless you have any proof that ALL the women in the BBC documentary/Punks with Purpose were lying as part of a smear campaign you are simply defending someone who made a habit of intimidating and harassing young women.

So exactly where do you stand on this matter?


----------



## nastyned (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> They're SEPERATE THINGS, FFS.
> 
> Unless you have any proof that ALL the women in the BBC documentary/Punks with Purpose were lying as part of a smear campaign you are simply defending someone who made a habit of intimidating and harassing young women.
> 
> So exactly where do you stand on this matter?


Yes, more on James Watt suing his own spy here: Conspiracy Weary — BrewDog CEO Files Fraud Lawsuit Against Woman He Paid for Information (Update: 9/29/22) — Good Beer Hunting


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Yes, more on James Watt suing his own spy here: Conspiracy Weary — BrewDog CEO Files Fraud Lawsuit Against Woman He Paid for Information (Update: 9/29/22) — Good Beer Hunting


And here's the bit ElizabethofYork should focus on before continuing to blindly defend Watt :



> The Scottish court’s finding in Watt’s favor bolsters his long-standing claims of a conspiracy committed against him. However, this case against Ziem appears to be largely unrelated to some former BrewDog workers’ criticism of BrewDog as an intimidating, hostile, and misogynistic work environment. (Ziem has never been employed by BrewDog.)


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I think the court case has a lot to do with the accusations made against him.
> 
> "BrewDog chief executive James Watt has revealed the “considerable distress and anxiety” he suffered during an online smear campaign which also saw him scammed out of £100,000.
> 
> ...



You're going to find your opponents getting themselves into vituperative states, given that their arguments are now holed beneath the waterline.

Unfortunate, but by no means unexpected.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

The Scottish court’s finding in Watt’s favor bolsters his long-standing claims of a conspiracy committed against him. However, this case against Ziem *appears to be *largely unrelated to _*some*_ former BrewDog workers’ criticism of BrewDog as an intimidating, hostile, and misogynistic work environment. (Ziem has never been employed by BrewDog.)


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> And here's the bit ElizabethofYork should focus on before continuing to blindly defend Watt :




I haven't "blindly defended Watt".  Unless you can prove otherwise?   I've simply not gone along with the prevailing pile-on, because I could see that there was something dodgy going on under the surface.

Don't feel bad - you weren't the only one who got it wrong.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> The Scottish court’s finding in Watt’s favor bolsters his long-standing claims of a conspiracy committed against him. However, this case against Ziem *appears to be *largely unrelated to _*some*_ former BrewDog workers’ criticism of BrewDog as an intimidating, hostile, and misogynistic work environment. (Ziem has never been employed by BrewDog.)



Exactly. It speaks to the general credibility of all of the allegations. Some had merit. He admitted as much. But it bolsters his own complaints that many allegations are unfair and coordinated attacks born of malice, like those on this thread.


----------



## nastyned (Oct 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> it bolsters his own complaints that many allegations are unfair and coordinated attacks born of malice, like those on this thread.


How does suing his own spy do that?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

nastyned said:


> How does suing his own spy do that?


The judge stated that she conducted a scam which set up fake social media pages to spread damaging online rumours about the brewery boss.

Ziem then conned him into paying £25,000 a time to unmask the ‘trolls’.


----------



## nastyned (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> The judge stated that she conducted a scam which set up fake social media pages to spread damaging online rumours about the brewery boss.
> 
> Ziem then conned him into paying £25,000 a time to unmask the ‘trolls’.


So we're clear that it's nothing to do with what the BrewDog staff have said.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I haven't "blindly defended Watt".  Unless you can prove otherwise?   I've simply not gone along with the prevailing pile-on, because I could see that there was something dodgy going on under the surface.
> 
> Don't feel bad - you weren't the only one who got it wrong.


Either you think the women are all lying (proof, please) or you have absolutely zero grounds to defend Watt from the accusations made by multiple members of his female staff.

So which is it?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> Either you think the women are all lying (proof, please) or you have absolutely zero grounds to defend Watt from the accusations made by multiple members of his female staff.
> 
> So which is it?



What do you believe?   Personally, I'm not so black and white in my thinking.  

It's been proved in court that there was a concerted smear campaign against him, which included claims of sexual harrassment.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> What do you believe?   Personally, I'm not so black and white in my thinking.
> 
> It's been proved in court that there was a concerted smear campaign against him, which included claims of sexual harrassment.


So without any evidence at all to support your assertions - literally ZERO - you're going to continue to peddle the suggestion that all the women are lying and Watt is entirely innocent.

Fucking shame on you. Because of people like you, women go through hell every year.


----------



## co-op (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> So without any evidence at all to support your assertions - literally ZERO - you're going to continue to peddle the suggestion that all the women are lying and Watt is entirely innocent.
> 
> Fucking shame on you. Because of people like you, women go through hell every year.



Fucks sake get a grip of yourself.


----------



## billy_bob (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> The Scottish court’s finding in Watt’s favor bolsters his long-standing claims of a conspiracy committed against him. However, this case against Ziem *appears to be *largely unrelated to _*some*_ former BrewDog workers’ criticism of BrewDog as an intimidating, hostile, and misogynistic work environment. (Ziem has never been employed by BrewDog.)



Therefore, _*some *_female employees of Watt allege serious things against him that it _*appears *_he's never even attempted to challenge or disprove.

That's where my focus would be in terms of the extent to which this court ruling exonerates him.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> So without any evidence at all to support your assertions - literally ZERO - you're going to continue to peddle the suggestion that all the women are lying and Watt is entirely innocent.
> 
> Fucking shame on you. Because of people like you, women go through hell every year.


I haven't said anything of the sort.  

Don't lie please.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> Fucks sake get a grip of yourself.



 Big style.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I haven't said anything of the sort.
> 
> Don't lie please.


Do you believe the allegations made against Watt by his female employees to be true or false? And if you think they're false, what evidence are you basing that on?


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> Fucks sake get a grip of yourself.


Calm down, soft lad. What evidence do you have that all of these women are lying?


----------



## co-op (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> Calm down, soft lad. What evidence do you have that all of these women are lying?



Don't be a prick.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> Do you believe the allegations made against Watt by his female employees to be true or false? And if you think they're false, what evidence are you basing that on?


I believe that some of the allegations were part of the concerted smear campaign.  I don't know about every single one.  Nor does anyone.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I haven't said anything of the sort.
> 
> Don't lie please.



Remember, you are under no obligation to respond to hysterical hectoring.


----------



## co-op (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I believe that some of the allegations were part of the concerted smear campaign.  I don't know about every single one.  Nor does anyone.



I'd leave him to his rantings if I were you. Dunno what's boiling his piss, but it's nothing to do with you.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> I'd leave him to his rantings if I were you. Dunno what's boiling his piss, but it's nothing to do with you.



This ^^^ ElizabethofYork


----------



## teuchter (Oct 26, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Therefore, _*some *_female employees of Watt allege serious things against him that it _*appears *_he's never even attempted to challenge or disprove.
> 
> That's where my focus would be in terms of the extent to which this court ruling exonerates him.


This court case doesn't exonerate him of all allegations against him, agreed.

Which specific allegations are they that he hasn't attempted to challenge or disprove?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> I'd leave him to his rantings if I were you. Dunno what's boiling his piss, but it's nothing to do with you.


True, but it's a bit frustrating to be continually accused of blindly defending someone, of believing that all women are liars, and that because of people "like me", women go through hell every year. 

He needs a fucking word with himself.


----------



## mwgdrwg (Oct 26, 2022)




----------



## co-op (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> True, but it's a bit frustrating to be continually accused of blindly defending someone, of believing that all women are liars, and that because of people "like me", women go through hell every year.
> 
> He needs a fucking word with himself.




Aye but quis mododiet ipsos mododes?


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I believe that some of the allegations were part of the concerted smear campaign.  I don't know about every single one.  Nor does anyone.


But your 'belief' is based on... nothing at all. No evidence. Fuck all.  Yet you continue to suggest that multiple women are lying.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> True, but it's a bit frustrating to be continually accused of blindly defending someone, of believing that all women are liars, and that because of people "like me", women go through hell every year.
> 
> He needs a fucking word with himself.



Don’t worry about it. Everyone else can see what you’ve said and is very aware of the tactic being employed.

“Ignore” is your friend.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> Don't be a prick.


Shame you're incapable of taking your own advice. Still, it's good to see where you stand on women speaking out about harassment and intimidation in the workplace.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> But your 'belief' is based on... nothing at all. No evidence. Fuck all.  Yet you continue to suggest that multiple women are lying.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


>



There's plenty of examples of women coming forward - some being brave enough to say it on camera for the BBC - that Watt made them feel uncomfortable and intimated on the workplace. Some would actively try to avoid him. 

Why is that funny to you?


----------



## co-op (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> Shame you're incapable of taking your own advice. Still, it's good to see where you stand on women speaking out about harassment and intimidation in the workplace.


Seriously I can't stop you being a prick but you should just go for a walk or something.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> Seriously I can't stop you being a prick but you should just go for a walk or something.


Just when I thought you couldn't go down any further in my estimation, you've managed a whole new lower level!
Oh, and wind in the personal abuse now.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> Aye but quis mododiet ipsos mododes?



I missed this earlier. It's actually pretty good.

Or perhaps _qui moderatur moderatoris?   _


----------



## co-op (Oct 26, 2022)

If that’s an attempt to write it in proper Latin don't be checking in with me I haven’t got a clue how it should be said


----------



## brogdale (Oct 26, 2022)

Watt is such an effective cunt magnet.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Watt is such an effective cunt magnet.



Here you are!


----------



## co-op (Oct 26, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Watt is such an effective cunt magnet.



He drew you to the thread 211 times so far, is this a confession on your part?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Here you are!


We?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> He drew you to the thread 211 times so far, is this a confession on your part?


Except the thread's titled
BrewDog: yet another hip company using 'rebel' language to sell its stuff​not
Watt a complete cunt (magnet)?​


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

brogdale said:


> We?



It's the nominative plural of_ I,_ Broggers.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's the nominative plural of_ I,_ Broggers.


And now...in honour of Watt, cuntsplaining!


----------



## co-op (Oct 26, 2022)

Is “cunt” all cool these days? It used to be seen as derogatory to women to use the female genital as the ultimate term of contempt but I know feminism’s got really funky and post-modern, I’m obviously out of date.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

brogdale said:


> And now...in honour of Watt, cuntsplaining!



If I considered you a man, I'd have _man_splained it!   🤷‍♂️


----------



## brogdale (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> Is “cunt” all cool these days? It used to be seen as derogatory to women to use the female genital as the ultimate term of contempt but I know feminism’s got really funky and post-modern, I’m obviously out of date.


Desperate.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> If I considered you a man, I'd have _man_splained it! 🤷‍♂️


Not sure you understand that term, m8


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 26, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Not sure you understand that term, m8


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


>


I see you're determined to retain your urban moniker


----------



## co-op (Oct 26, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Desperate.


There actually could be an answer to my question, the fact that you can’t even try and give one suggests you haven’t got one. Anyway, have a think about it.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 26, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> It's the nominative plural of_ I,_ Broggers.


You're taking the wee


----------



## Dystopiary (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> Is “cunt” all cool these days? It used to be seen as derogatory to women to use the female genital as the ultimate term of contempt but I know feminism’s got really funky and post-modern, I’m obviously out of date.


Yeah, you tell those uppity women how to do feminism!


----------



## co-op (Oct 26, 2022)

Dystopiary said:


> Yeah, you tell those uppity women how to do feminism!


 I asked a question, surely that’s allowed? 

But we’ll done for backing up your chum.


----------



## Dystopiary (Oct 26, 2022)




----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> Is “cunt” all cool these days? It used to be seen as derogatory to women to use the female genital as the ultimate term of contempt but I know feminism’s got really funky and post-modern, I’m obviously out of date.


Apparently it's cool to completely dismiss out of hand women who are brave enough to come forward and make public statements about how their creepy boss made them feel uncomfortable,  intimidated and in a  toxic work environment because_ cool branding dude!_

PS You seem quite keen on using the word 'cunt' too. Fancy that!


----------



## Maggot (Oct 26, 2022)

editor said:


> PS You seem quite keen on using the word 'cunt' too. Fancy that!


Have you read your examples? Most of them are when he is quoting someone else saying 'cunt'. 

Only used once since 2018. Hardly an epidemic.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

Maggot said:


> Have you read your examples? Most of them are when he is quoting someone else saying 'cunt'.
> 
> Only used once since 2018. Hardly an epidemic.


He used 'cunting' less than two years ago and seems happy to requote when necessary, Perhaps all the perceived offence vanishes then, not that it's up to him if women find it offensive or not.


----------



## co-op (Oct 26, 2022)

Maggot said:


> Have you read your examples? Most of them are when he is quoting someone else saying 'cunt'.
> 
> Only used once since 2018. Hardly an epidemic.


😂

I’ve stuck in him on ignore because when you’ve seen one editor tantrum you’ve seen ‘em all. 

But he’s going to be pretty defensive, I get that, he was hectoring and bullying a female poster and repeatedly accusing her of “lying” for daring to disagree with him - and then telling the world that he was doing that all in the name of feminism, it’s not exactly credible. 

Funny how the little toadies who are trying to make me the baddie in that encounter never noticed his obnoxious macho dickheadery.


----------



## editor (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> 😂
> 
> I’ve stuck in him on ignore because when you’ve seen one editor tantrum you’ve seen ‘em all.
> 
> ...


No idea why you're babbling on about now, neither do I care, but I've taken all the personal abuse I'm going to take from you, so we're now on mutual ignore.
You'll have to shout your big man insults to the sky now. Fuck off and goodnight.


----------



## Dystopiary (Oct 26, 2022)

co-op said:


> I asked a question, surely that’s allowed?
> 
> But we’ll done for backing up your chum.



I'm not backing up anyone. I've got my own opinions on the whole debacle, thanks. 



> little toadies



.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 27, 2022)

James Watt. Is he the bloke who habitually wears a flat cap because he's ashamed of his shiny slaphead?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 27, 2022)

ViolentPanda said:


> James Watt. Is he the bloke who habitually wears a flat cap because he's ashamed of his shiny slaphead?



His steam engine was pretty cool though. One might even say, revolutionary.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 27, 2022)

ViolentPanda said:


> James Watt. Is he the bloke who habitually wears a flat cap because he's ashamed of his shiny slaphead?


You know what he also hides under his perma-cap, don't you?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> You know what he also hides under his perma-cap, don't you?



Mathematical equations regarding the SI unit of power?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 27, 2022)

brogdale said:


> You know what he also hides under his perma-cap, don't you?


His sandwiches?


----------



## brogdale (Oct 27, 2022)

Nah...


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 27, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Mathematical equations regarding the SI unit of power?


what's the cunty si unit of power?


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2022)

Maggot said:


> Have you read your examples? Most of them are when he is quoting someone else saying 'cunt'.
> 
> Only used once since 2018. Hardly an epidemic.


editor's far keener on the term than co-op as a simple search will show, about 30 times in the last six months alone


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2022)

Spoiler: Sexist filth from Brewdog


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 27, 2022)

Please stop posting horrible sexist pictures.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Please stop posting horrible sexist pictures.


So at least you agree that he's a sexist pig. See, we're making progress!
Now we've just got you to accept that with absolutely zero evidence to the contrary, he also makes female workers feel uncomfortable in his presence.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2022)

No surprise to see women unfavourably referring to Brewdog in this interesting article



> “I’m ashamed, as a French woman, to see what’s happening in France,” she says. In her work, she has experienced real culture shocks when working with her home country. “I work with U.K. breweries and sometimes have to organize events for them in France. I find it extremely difficult that I have to explain why we won’t make a partnership with certains breweries or venues.” One partner didn’t understand why she refused to have an event take place at BrewDog’s Paris bar. “The matter is always brushed aside. They say, ‘It’s just rumors, and it’s not really important to pay attention to that kind of thing.’”











						Pas Encore — French Women Are Sick of Waiting for Their Beer Revolution — Good Beer Hunting
					

“It’s just an idea, but could we think about writing a press release or an open letter? To officially ask for concrete actions, on behalf of women and breweries in need of training?”  Last March, Garlonn Kergourlay, a brewing consultant and the leader of the French chapter of the Pink Boots Society,




					www.goodbeerhunting.com
				




And from earlier this year 



> The move came following the BBC’s _Disclosure_ programme which unveiled former members of staff at Brewdog saying its founder James Watt’s behaviour made them feel “uncomfortable” and “powerless”.
> 
> Speaking on behalf of Ladies that Beer, group founder and contributor Julie O’Grady told _the drinks business_: “The recent episode on the BBC brought again to light issues that we know are happening within the industry, and now others outside that arena are getting to hear about the behaviour of breweries’ of the beers they drink. This, hopefully, will enable them to make a conscious decision whether to drink that beer.”











						Would you buy or sell a beer made by a bully?
					

The craft beer industry has voiced its feelings on discrimination and urges people buying and selling beer to make a 'conscious decision'.




					www.thedrinksbusiness.com


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 27, 2022)

editor said:


> So at least you agree that he's a sexist pig. See, we're making progress!
> Now we've just got you to accept that with absolutely zero evidence to the contrary, he also makes female workers feel uncomfortable in his presence.


Last time you posted that picture I told you I found it horrible.  Why are you posting it again?  Are you trying to intimidate me and make me feel uncomfortable?


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Last time you posted that picture I told you I found it horrible.  Why are you posting it again?  Are you trying to intimidate me and make me feel uncomfortable?


It's for apologists in serial denial like you. It unequivocally shows you their real attitude towards women, something you seem unable to accept.

Many women have come forward with their testimonies about how Watt has abused his power, behaved inappropriately in the workplace and made them feel uncomfortable., yet you still refuse to believe it.



> Watt’s behavior was well known among staff, who created whisper networks to inform co-workers, several former employees told the BBC.
> 
> “We would make it a point to warn new girls and warn the hosts,” Katelynn Ising, a former BrewDog USA worker, told BBC reporter Mark Daly. “Hey, just so you know, James Watt’s coming to town. Just kind of leave after your shifts. Don’t really hang around. Don’t always do your hair and makeup that day. Don’t catch his attention.”
> 
> ...











						BBC Doc: BrewDog CEO Accused of Inappropriate Behavior Toward Female Taproom Staff; James Watt Threatens Legal Action
					

BrewDog co-founder and CEO James Watt is facing accusations of inappropriate behavior toward female employees and guests following his visits to the Scottish craft beer maker’s U.S. brewery and taprooms, according to BBC expose that aired Monday.




					www.brewbound.com
				




PS I've put the picture behind a spoiler so you won't be 'intimidated' and made 'uncomfortable' by some promotional material from the company you defend here almost every day.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 27, 2022)

editor said:


> It's for apologists in serial denial like you. It unequivocally shows you their real attitude towards women, something you seem unable to accept.
> 
> Many women have come forward with their testimonies about how Watt has abused his power, behaved inappropriately in the workplace and made them feel uncomfortable., yet you still refuse to believe it.
> 
> ...


You're funny!  
I haven't denied anything.   I haven't refused to believe anything.   And I've never defended the company.  Unless you can prove otherwise?  I'd be interested to see your evidence!


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> You're funny!
> I haven't denied anything.   I haven't refused to believe anything.   And I've never defended the company.  Unless you can prove otherwise?  I'd be interested to see your evidence!



Your denial is fucking weird, but I'll try again. 

Based on the multiple testimonies from women who have come forward to say that Watt abused his power, behaved inappropriately in the workplace and made them feel uncomfortable, do you condemn his behaviour YES/NO?

And if not, why not?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Oct 27, 2022)

editor said:


> Your denial is fucking weird, but I'll try again.
> 
> Based on the multiple testimonies from women who have come forward to say that Watt abused his power, behaved inappropriately in the workplace and made them feel uncomfortable, do you condemn his behaviour YES/NO?
> 
> And if not, why not?


What denial?


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 27, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> What denial?



Indeed. 

Thread's got very fucking weird.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> What denial?


Just answer the question please.  It's really straightforward. Thanks.


----------



## teuchter (Oct 27, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> You're funny!
> I haven't denied anything.   I haven't refused to believe anything.   And I've never defended the company.  Unless you can prove otherwise?  I'd be interested to see your evidence!


Maybe you have not read the special terms and conditions of this thread, which say that posting on it deems you a supporter, defender and active promoter of Brewdog and its directors unless you state unambiguously that you assume every allegation ever made against them, and any allegation made against them in the future, by anyone, is true.


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 27, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I believe that some of the allegations were part of the concerted smear campaign.  I don't know about every single one.  Nor does anyone.


i think this may have been where you've confused editor


----------



## dessiato (Oct 27, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Indeed.
> 
> Thread's got very fucking weird.


Its been weird for a long time.


----------



## Spymaster (Oct 27, 2022)

dessiato said:


> Its been weird for a long time.



I dunno. It's been _shit_ for a very long time; since its inception really. But it's only occasionally been _weird_.

It's truly jumped the shark in the last 24hrs though. Even most of the most vehement anti-Brewdog headbangers are giving it a wide berth, thinking WTFFFF???


----------



## ViolentPanda (Oct 27, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> His steam engine was pretty cool though. One might even say, revolutionary.


He's pretty much let down by his latter-day namesake, who has a couple of decent beers to his name, plus an alcohol-free beer that tastes like Barbican (remember that? Fucking awful).


----------



## equationgirl (Oct 29, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> I haven't "blindly defended Watt".  Unless you can prove otherwise?   I've simply not gone along with the prevailing pile-on, because I could see that there was something dodgy going on under the surface.
> 
> Don't feel bad - you weren't the only one who got it wrong.


Blindly following the tactics and evasiveness of Spymadter does you no favours either.


----------



## SpookyFrank (Oct 30, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I dunno. It's been _shit_ for a very long time; since its inception really.



The sound of a man soiling himself on public transport then complaining about the smell.


----------



## TopCat (Oct 30, 2022)

Was looking at Brewdogs beers in the local supermarket yesterday. Range from £5 a litre to £7.50 a litre. My home brew costs 70p a litre. It tastes better than their shit too.


----------



## brogdale (Oct 30, 2022)

TopCat said:


> Was looking at Brewdogs beers in the local supermarket yesterday. Range from £5 a litre to £7.50 a litre. My home brew costs 70p a litre. It tastes better than their shit too.


But yours won't have that Brewdog magnetism, though!


----------



## nastyned (Nov 5, 2022)

A ex-brewdog worker that's critical of them had their computer hacked: Inside the global hack-for-hire industry


----------



## skyscraper101 (Nov 7, 2022)

Brought to you by those famous human rights champions, Brewdog.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 7, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Brought to you by those famous human rights champions, Brewdog.



Absolutely outstanding!


----------



## brogdale (Nov 7, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Brought to you by those famous human rights champions, Brewdog.


Why would they want to pay for publicity for an event that they say they disapprove of?
Hmm...I wonder?


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 7, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Why would they want to pay for publicity for an event that they say they disapprove of?



Duuuuuur!


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 7, 2022)

Sorry to disappoint those who want to conjure up a rabid mob out to get poor Brewdog, but I don't have any problem saying that if this raises some money for good-quality, on-the-ground human rights work, good for them.

That doesn't make Brogdale's insinuation wrong, of course - they'll do well out of it for themselves too, given that people drink a lot during the world cup and this lager is far from Brewdog's best-selling line.


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Brought to you by those famous human rights champions, Brewdog.





> BrewDog has been slammed for launching a “disingenuous” ‘anti-sponsorship’ campaign for the Qatar World Cup, donating profits to charities but continuing to show the tournament.
> 
> The brand said it would show the World Cup at its outlets but “all the profits from our Lost Lager sold during the tournament going to fight human rights abuse.”


So they'll be making lots of money by screening the games in all their pubs, making profits that will dwarf their charitable donations.

Absolutely fucking pathetic.

And here's what a union has to say about these shitehawks:



> Trade union Unite criticised the campaign launched today, with its industrial organiser for the hospitality sector Bryan Simpson, branding it one of the worst employers in the industry.
> 
> He said “the treatment of workers in Qatar is an international scandal but BrewDog have a cheek saying anything about workers rights when hundreds of their own workers (past and present) signed an open letter detailing a “culture of fear” with workers demanding an apology for “harassing, assaulting, belittling, insulting or gaslighting them”.
> 
> ...












						Qatar World Cup: BrewDog slammed for 'disingenuous' gesture giving profits to charity
					

BrewDog has been slammed for launching a "disingenuous" ‘anti-sponsorship’ campaign for the Qatar World Cup, donating profits to charities but continuing




					www.cityam.com


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 7, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Brought to you by those famous human rights champions, Brewdog.


Edgy as ever. Almost punkish.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 7, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> Edgy as ever. Almost punkish.



Let's face it, they outpunk Punk.


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 7, 2022)

editor said:


> So they'll be making lots of money by screening the games in all their pubs, making profits that will dwarf their charitable donations.
> 
> Absolutely fucking pathetic.
> 
> ...


Quite interesting read that. So if BrewDog was the Qatar version of a brewery, who do we think would compare to the other big brewing dogs of the planet?

Greenall Whitley could represent England. Ok in it's relative heyday but gone to the dogs now.
Deuchars. I'd walk 500 miles for one of their independent  IPA's because it's Caledonian and everything else is shit.
Purple Moose. Wales "It's not our fault you cant pronounce the name of it".
Guinness. Ireland. Fairly self explanatory.


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Let's face it, they outpunk Punk.


I think with a name like *Lost* they're potentially working the Emo/Goth dollar there.


----------



## PR1Berske (Nov 8, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Nov 8, 2022)

editor said:


> So they'll be making lots of money by screening the games in all their pubs, making profits that will dwarf their charitable donations.
> 
> Absolutely fucking pathetic.
> 
> ...


----------



## DaphneM (Nov 8, 2022)

skyscraper101 said:


> Brought to you by those famous human rights champions, Brewdog.


at last, something we can all get behind, without any silly sniping!


----------



## brogdale (Nov 8, 2022)

Watt’s cunt magnet seems to be working fine.


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 8, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Watt’s cunt magnet seems to be working fine.



Positive or negative, Broggers?


----------



## brogdale (Nov 8, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Positive or negative, Broggers?


Most folk have a balanced 'spin of electrons' (values) and are not attracted to cunt magnets, others have a dominant spin in one direction and are strongly attracted.

The wonder of science, eh?


----------



## nastyned (Nov 8, 2022)

Well, well, well:


----------



## brogdale (Nov 8, 2022)

nastyned said:


> Well, well, well:



_genius marketing _to the cuntomagnetic!


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 8, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Most folk have a balanced 'spin of electrons' (values) and are not attracted to cunt magnets ...



I'm sure you appreciate the irony in your tacit admission that you're clearly not _most people_


----------



## brogdale (Nov 8, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I'm sure you appreciate the irony in your tacit admission that you're clearly not _most people_


I can appreciate that you're struggling with this.


----------



## PR1Berske (Nov 8, 2022)




----------



## PR1Berske (Nov 8, 2022)

Turns out Brewdog signed a distribution deal in Qatar a few months before their holier than thou advertising campaign 


(Fao editor )


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 8, 2022)

Oh FFS. I actually started to think 'well ... maybe they could atone for their past behaviour if they really keep up the do-gooding' there for a minute. After all, the apologists' question about why this medium-sized outfit deserves a 200+ page thread when plenty of evil corporations don't have a single one is not totally unreasonable. But that (Qatar deal vs advert) really confirms as clearly as anything so far that they're scumbags and charlatans.


----------



## NoXion (Nov 8, 2022)

billy_bob said:


> Oh FFS. I actually started to think 'well ... maybe they could atone for their past behaviour if they really keep up the do-gooding' there for a minute. After all, the apologists' question about why this medium-sized outfit deserves a 200+ page thread when plenty of evil corporations don't have a single one is not totally unreasonable. But that (Qatar deal vs advert) really confirms as clearly as anything so far that they're scumbags and charlatans.



Thread would be a lot shorter if it wasn't being taken up by trolling chortletwats who should have been given a thread ban ages ago.


----------



## DaphneM (Nov 8, 2022)

brogdale said:


> _genius marketing _to the cuntomagnetic!


you are probably here more than most people...


----------



## PR1Berske (Nov 8, 2022)

NoXion said:


> Thread would be a lot shorter if it wasn't being taken up by trolling chortletwats who should have been given a thread ban ages ago.


The two fanboys on this thread have never struck me as being genuine.


----------



## two sheds (Nov 8, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> you are probably here more than most people...


Spy leads the field with 736, editor doesn't even break the 500 brogdale down at just over the 200  

true that he's here more than most people but there again most people don't post on urban


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 8, 2022)

two sheds said:


> there again most people don't post on urban



What? You mean I've spent the last *eighteen *years relying on this place for all of my opinions _for nothing_?


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 8, 2022)

two sheds said:


> Spy leads the field with 736


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Turns out Brewdog signed a distribution deal in Qatar a few months before their holier than thou advertising campaign
> 
> 
> (Fao editor )



Let's hear the fanboys defend this latest slab of dazzling, cash-earning hypocrisy.


----------



## friedaweed (Nov 8, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> The two fanboys on this thread have never struck me as being genuine.


I always thought that was a given.


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Nov 9, 2022)

An interesting look at the recent PR campaign:  BrewDog’s World Cup ‘anti-sponsorship’ is a shameless PR stunt. And it’s a good one

"_For those dismissing the campaign, most of the criticism focuses on two questions. The first and most difficult to answer is: given that BrewDog’s bars will still be showing games despite its strongly anti-Qatar stance, doesn’t the campaign collapse under its own hypocrisy?

I would argue not. The reality is that a boycott would benefit no one. Fans would simply choose a different pub, staff would miss out on extra shifts and BrewDog would be missing out on revenue during a tough winter for no real benefit.

Instead, by showing the games and making donations to relevant charities, the brand is able to provide a platform to criticize Qatar while raising money for needy causes. It might be a less morally satisfying stance, but it’s also a less futile one.

BrewDog’s critics would rightly point out that it’s only the profits from Lost Lager that are going to charity, not the profits of their bars as a whole. And it’s perhaps true that, given the large sums of money the company is likely spending on media to promote the campaign, BrewDog would rather no one looked too closely at the exact sums that will be going to charity.

But the fact is that some money going to charity does more good than no money going to charity, which is why BrewDog’s philosophically untidy approach is preferable to a boycott.
.......
The marketing and communications industry’s obsession with ‘purpose’ can have real benefits for society, but it all too often blinds us to what we’re supposed to be doing: promoting our clients.

Yes, it’s true that BrewDog’s ‘anti-sponsorship of the World Cup’ is an opportunistic and superficial stunt designed to grab attention in a transparent attempt to promote BrewDog and make the company more money.

But why does everyone say that like it’s a bad thing?"_


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 9, 2022)

Oooh, Liz, what have you done? 

I can hear the drone engines firing-up already!


----------



## brogdale (Nov 9, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> An interesting look at the recent PR campaign:  BrewDog’s World Cup ‘anti-sponsorship’ is a shameless PR stunt. And it’s a good one
> 
> "_For those dismissing the campaign, most of the criticism focuses on two questions. The first and most difficult to answer is: given that BrewDog’s bars will still be showing games despite its strongly anti-Qatar stance, doesn’t the campaign collapse under its own hypocrisy?
> 
> ...


What is it about this marketing industry copy that you find particularly "interesting"?


----------



## PR1Berske (Nov 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> Oooh, Liz, what have you done?
> 
> I can hear the drone engines firing-up already!


Is your entire personality liking Brewdog?


----------



## ElizabethofYork (Nov 9, 2022)

brogdale said:


> What is it about this marketing industry copy that you find particularly "interesting"?



Well, PR campaigns are to promote the brand, and to increase sales.

This one looks as though it will be successful, even though people are moaning about it.

I find that interesting.


----------



## PR1Berske (Nov 9, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Well, PR campaigns are to promote the brand, and to increase sales.
> 
> This one looks as though it will be successful, even though people are moaning about it.
> 
> I find that interesting.


And the fact Brewdog are hypocrites?


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 9, 2022)




----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 9, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Is your entire personality liking Brewdog?


He's not too keen on them after seven or eight pints of their filthy brew


----------



## billy_bob (Nov 9, 2022)

PR man argues PR campaign good. I don't find that especially interesting.

I'm not aware that there's been a concerted call to boycott Brewdog bars for World Cup matches, though, so even the PR man's praise rests on something of a straw man argument.

(Incidentally, the author seems to concede on his Twitter that their deal to sell in Qatar itself further undermines Brewdog's charitability claim here.)


----------



## Spymaster (Nov 9, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> He's not too keen on them after seven or eight pints of their filthy brew



I don't think I've ever had a BD beer that I've liked but I'm meeting someone at the Waterloo place on Friday so will persevere. At least once!


----------



## Pickman's model (Nov 9, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I don't think I've ever had a BD beer that I've liked but I'm meeting someone at the Waterloo place on Friday so will persevere. At least once!


But God knows you've tried to find one


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## Spymaster (Nov 9, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> But God knows you've tried to find one



Not really with their beer. I've long since decided that their offerings are some way off what I want in an ale. They do a cracking gin though (LoneWolf), and some of their food is excellent. Obviously though, where they really come into their own is the strength of their PR, Marketing, and Business Development.

Absolutely outstanding.


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## belboid (Nov 9, 2022)

“Hitting myself on the head with a brick hasn’t helped so far, but I’m going to keep trying it.”


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## brogdale (Nov 9, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Well, PR campaigns are to promote the brand, and to increase sales.
> 
> This one looks as though it will be successful, even though people are moaning about it.
> 
> I find that interesting.


In so much as any industry puff piece could be interesting; then fair play if it interests you.

To me it looks more relevant to the thread than interesting, in that it considers just the latest example of the company's hypocritical, "edgy" marketing.


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## DaphneM (Nov 9, 2022)

BrewDog lives rent free in Urban's servers


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## two sheds (Nov 9, 2022)

.


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## ddraig (Nov 9, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> BrewDog lives rent free in Urban's servers


so do you, sadly


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## Spymaster (Nov 9, 2022)

DaphneM said:


> BrewDog lives rent free in Urban's servers



It's a fabulous thread in terms of bang for your buck!


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## editor (Nov 9, 2022)

ElizabethofYork said:


> Well, PR campaigns are to promote the brand, and to increase sales.
> 
> This one looks as though it will be successful, even though people are moaning about it.
> 
> I find that interesting.


But no opinion whatsoever about the morality of a multi-million, multinational company using the plight of workers and the LGBTQ community in Qatar as a means to increase sales and brand awareness?


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## ViolentPanda (Nov 10, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> Is your entire personality liking Brewdog?


What personality? Cunty Si doesn't have a personality!


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## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2022)

Past the brewdog pub at Cambridge circus. If one of the more prominent posters on this thread wasn't in there, they have a most convincing doppelganger


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## Pickman's model (Nov 27, 2022)

ddraig said:


> so do you, sadly


Servers, not sewers


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## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2022)

surprised no one's beaten me to posting this 

BrewDog loses its ethical B Corp certificate


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## hash tag (Dec 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> d some of their food is excellent


Your idea of excellent and mine must be totally different 🤔


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## Spymaster (Dec 1, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> Past the brewdog pub at Cambridge circus. If one of the more prominent posters on this thread wasn't in there, they have a most convincing doppelganger



brogdale came to London?


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## Spymaster (Dec 1, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Your idea of excellent and mine must be totally different 🤔



You probably just have poor taste. Their bUrGerZ are excelent.


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## PR1Berske (Dec 1, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> surprised no one's beaten me to posting this
> View attachment 353747
> BrewDog loses its ethical B Corp certificate


The fanboys will be here in a minute.


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## hash tag (Dec 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> You probably just have poor taste. Their bUrGerZ are excelent.


Or no taste. I just find brewdog hard to swallow.


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## Pickman's model (Dec 1, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Your idea of excellent and mine must be totally different 🤔


spymaster is something of a gourmet, i've seen him send food back not up to his standards


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## hash tag (Dec 1, 2022)

Pickman's model said:


> spymaster is something of a gourmet, i've seen him send food back not up to his standards


Hmmm, brewdog are tastless


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## editor (Dec 1, 2022)

Just listen to the bullshitting twat



> At the time James Watt, the brewer’s outspoken co-founder and chief executive, tweeted his pride at joining a “global community of businesses that meet the highest standards of verified social & environmental performance to help build a better world”.
> 
> Watt, who pledged to launch a B Corp branded beer to acknowledge the achievement, said that the accolade was awarded after a “rigorous” year-long scrutiny of the business by B Lab, which assesses companies seeking B Corp status and monitors complaints about member compliance.



And the reality:



> “BrewDog is no longer a Certified B Corp,” said a spokesperson for B Lab. “B Lab does not comment on companies that are no longer in the B Corp community. I’m afraid I cannot share any further information.”





> BrewDog is understood to have been subject to an investigation by B Lab after staff submitted complaints following a BBC documentary, Disclosure: The Truth About Brewdog, which looked at the brewer’s workplace culture.
> 
> BrewDog has submitted complaints to the TV regulator, Ofcom, about the documentary, which aired earlier this year.
> 
> B Lab says it investigates “material, credible and specific claims” against a company on the grounds of either “intentional misrepresentation of practices, policies, or outcomes claimed during a company’s certification process”, or “breaches of the B Corp community’s core values”.











						BrewDog loses its ethical B Corp certificate
					

Status lost after BBC film and open letter from workers alleging ‘culture of fear’ at self-styled ‘punk brewery’




					www.theguardian.com


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## Spymaster (Dec 1, 2022)

hash tag said:


> Hmmm, brewdog are tastless


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## hash tag (Dec 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> View attachment 353771


There's a point well made.


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## PR1Berske (Dec 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> View attachment 353771


That's not a burger. 

You can't eat that in a gulp or bite, it'd go everywhere.
The ratio of content to bread is ridiculous.
The combination of flavours is all wrong.

It's not food to eat, it's food to photograph. Like your increasingly desperate attempts to defend Brewdog, it's all for show.


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## Spymaster (Dec 1, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> That's not a burger.
> 
> You can't eat that in a gulp or bite, it'd go everywhere.
> The ratio of content to bread is ridiculous.
> ...



You are highly unaware. Loads of places do similar. You eat them by disassembling them and using a knife and fork. You know what they are, right?


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## hash tag (Dec 1, 2022)

A burger is a thing to be eaten by hands. Might as well have a slab of meat on the plate with a bun on the side.


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## xenon (Dec 1, 2022)

TBF everywhere puts a wooden scuer through them to hold the ensemble together now. I had quite a good one at Mo's Diner in Wembly last week.


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## Serge Forward (Dec 1, 2022)

It looks a bit gimmicky, as you'd expect. The best burger you'll find anywhere is available at half time at Barwell FC. That brew dog fare does not compare.


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## teuchter (Dec 1, 2022)

You folks who've not been in a pub in the past twenty years - never mind what pub burgers look like these days - wait till you see the price of a pint of beer! And you're not allowed to smoke either!


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## Spymaster (Dec 1, 2022)

hash tag said:


> A burger is a thing to be eaten by hands. Might as well have a slab of meat on the plate with a bun on the side.



I can understand why someone like you would think that.


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## brogdale (Dec 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> brogdale came to London?


I live here; Z5 is still GL yer cheeky fucker


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## Spymaster (Dec 1, 2022)

brogdale said:


> I live here; Z5 is still GL yer cheeky fucker



Ahhh, I’ve always had you down as a Yorkshire or northern type for some reason. We should have a beer then. You can even choose which Brewdog.


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## PR1Berske (Dec 1, 2022)

I don't drink in Wetherspoons because my drinking tastes are different to what's on offer. 

I don't drink in Brewdog because my drinking tastes are better than what's on offer, I've got better morals, and I know that just putting meat in a column like a child with bricks in a nursery isn't making a burger.


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## Spymaster (Dec 1, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> I don't drink in Wetherspoons because my drinking tastes are different to what's on offer.
> 
> I don't drink in Brewdog because my drinking tastes are better than what's on offer, I've got better morals, and I know that just putting meat in a column like a child with bricks in a nursery isn't making a burger.



I love how they irritate you so much! 🤣


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## PR1Berske (Dec 1, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I love how they irritate you so much! 🤣


I love how you're so precious about them.


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## brogdale (Dec 7, 2022)

“...playful...” marketing style

BrewDog beer ad pulled over ‘one of your five a day’ claim


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## ElizabethofYork (Dec 7, 2022)

Brewdog said "we are happy to confirm that beer is not a fruit or a vegetable"


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## Spymaster (Dec 7, 2022)

_“A recipient complained that the five-a-day claim was misleading”._

Sounds like they had ONE complaint. What’s the bet that the complainant posts on this thread?


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## magneze (Dec 7, 2022)

It was probably someone in their marketing dept.


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## PR1Berske (Dec 7, 2022)

As if Brewdog has a marketing department!


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## DaphneM (Dec 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> _“A recipient complained that the five-a-day claim was misleading”._
> 
> Sounds like they had ONE complaint. What’s the bet that the complainant posts on this thread?


Snippy & humourless  - ticks the boxes!


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## magneze (Dec 7, 2022)

PR1Berske said:


> As if Brewdog has a marketing department!


They're all on this thread


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## brogdale (Dec 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> _“A recipient complained that the five-a-day claim was misleading”._
> 
> Sounds like they had ONE complaint. What’s the bet that the complainant posts on this thread?


Could be:



> The firm said the email was only sent to existing customers


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## Spymaster (Dec 7, 2022)

brogdale said:


> Could be:



You been trtying to cause trouble again, Broggers?


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## brogdale (Dec 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> You been trtying to cause trouble again, Broggers?


Nah, I'm not on their mailing list as a "consumer". Though, for complete transparency, I do need to say that i have consumed one of their products; Mrs B once found a 'Lost lager' bottle reduced at the shop and, for my sins, I drank the contents. It was, of course, horrid piss-water.


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## belboid (Dec 7, 2022)

An effective piece of marketing. One quick email that they knew was likely to get exactly this reaction, which would then make it to the news and the usual idiot fan boys/girls going 'oooh, its obviously a joke, the ASA are so silly and stuffy and BrewDog are being even better than normal.'

And, bingo, 3/4 of the usual fuckwits cream themselves over it.


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## brogdale (Dec 7, 2022)

Ah, the return of _genius marketing_


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## friedaweed (Dec 7, 2022)

I went to the Edinburgh brewdog on Sunday night. We were walking past and the Mrs was keen so I thought why not. She likes their beer and so does her son.

It's a very nice gaff. Uber friendly staff who enquired if we were there to watch the football and when we said no they found us a nice cosy booth and waited on us with impeccable attention to detail. I asked the two people who served us if they liked working there and they both said they did. 

Anyway having not been in one for years (Bristol was the last about 6 years ago) I asked about their beers and was bought a sample of several before I decided. I had 3 different stouts.

The kegged grog was spot on actually, not overly gassy which I find is the problem with their canned ale.

I had a gander at the menu which had those burgers made from plants.


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## pogofish (Dec 7, 2022)

brogdale said:


> “...playful...” marketing style
> 
> BrewDog beer ad pulled over ‘one of your five a day’ claim



When are they going after Unilever:





The Advertising Code of Practice, or whatever they are calling it these days does allow/accept a certain amount of humour in advertising..!


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## teuchter (Dec 7, 2022)

belboid said:


> An effective piece of marketing. One quick email that they knew was likely to get exactly this reaction, which would then make it to the news and the usual idiot fan boys/girls going 'oooh, its obviously a joke, the ASA are so silly and stuffy and BrewDog are being even better than normal.'
> 
> And, bingo, 3/4 of the usual fuckwits cream themselves over it.


Seems a slightly harsh judgement on the poster who introduced this latest bit of marketing to the thread.


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## JimW (Dec 7, 2022)

What's a heritage tomato?


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## teuchter (Dec 7, 2022)

I recently learnt that someone I know well had a very direct interaction with James Watt, earlier this year. Many posters on this thread would love to hear all the details. I'm not going to tell you anything though.


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## beesonthewhatnow (Dec 7, 2022)

teuchter said:


> I recently learnt that someone I know well had a very direct interaction with James Watt, earlier this year. Many posters on this thread would love to hear all the details. I'm not going to tell you anything though.


Oooooh you big tease.


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## DaphneM (Dec 7, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> I went to the Edinburgh brewdog on Sunday night. We were walking past and the Mrs was keen so I thought why not. She likes their beer and so does her son.
> 
> It's a very nice gaff. Uber friendly staff who enquired if we were there to watch the football and when we said no they found us a nice cosy booth and waited on us with impeccable attention to detail. I asked the two people who served us if they liked working there and they both said they did.
> 
> ...


I think crossing the BrewDog thread with the End of Meat thread could cause some kind of terrible mutant monstrosity


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## Spymaster (Dec 7, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> I went to the Edinburgh brewdog on Sunday night. We were walking past and the Mrs was keen so I thought why not. She likes their beer and so does her son.
> 
> It's a very nice gaff. Uber friendly staff who enquired if we were there to watch the football and when we said no they found us a nice cosy booth and waited on us with impeccable attention to detail. I asked the two people who served us if they liked working there and they both said they did.
> 
> ...



I’d have thought this would have made at least a few of the drones buzz but so far not; thus enforcing my theory.


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## Spymaster (Dec 7, 2022)

friedaweed said:


> I went to the Edinburgh brewdog on Sunday night. We were walking past and the Mrs was keen so I thought why not. She likes their beer and so does her son.
> 
> It's a very nice gaff. Uber friendly staff who enquired if we were there to watch the football and when we said no they found us a nice cosy booth and waited on us with impeccable attention to detail. I asked the two people who served us if they liked working there and they both said they did.
> 
> ...



Note they don’t call their veghead stuff burgers. That would be misleading advertising but the right to do so is staunchly defended by some of those posting here, on another thread. 

More confirmation.


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## two sheds (Dec 7, 2022)

Spymaster said:


> I’d have thought this would have made at least a few of the drones buzz but so far not; thus enforcing my theory.


but you did buzz


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## Spymaster (Dec 7, 2022)

two sheds said:


> but you did buzz



Crap post. Anyone who likes it proves my point further!


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## brogdale (Dec 7, 2022)

Genius posting; outwitted again, dammit.


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## Spymaster (Dec 7, 2022)

brogdale said:


> …. outwitted again, dammit.



You should be getting used to it by now, Broggers


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## brogdale (Dec 7, 2022)

There was me thinking that my disclosure this morning of actually once drinking the stuff might assuage the wrath of the fanboys/girls.


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## teuchter (Dec 7, 2022)

I would say that anyone not responding to friedaweed's post can reasonably be assumed to have composed a reply to it, which they have now decided not to post.


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## Funky_monks (Dec 7, 2022)

I continue to be astounded that people give enough of a shit about brewdog to merit over 200 pages of debate.......


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## Spymaster (Dec 7, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> I continue to be astounded that people give enough of a shit about brewdog to merit over 200 pages of debate.......



It's not debate


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## two sheds (Dec 7, 2022)

yes it is it's a mass debate


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Dec 7, 2022)

Funky_monks said:


> I continue to be astounded that people give enough of a shit about brewdog to merit over 200 pages of debate.......



If you were a fisherman would you stop returning to your most productive spot?


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## two sheds (Dec 7, 2022)

by spot I think you mean boil


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## pogofish (Dec 7, 2022)

JimW said:


> What's a heritage tomato?



They are older strains of tomato that until recently were not or no longer grown commercially in any significant quantities compared to the strains currently favoured by large scale agriculture - different reasons why, some didn't crop as prolifically, they may not have been as consistent in size or taste, their colours can be very variable and may not have been pure red. Some strains even remain green when ripe! Others are dull red, yellowish or a muddy purple/brown.

However in the current foody climate, they have become popular again and the generally premium prices make them attractive to growers, particularly smaller/market garden-type operations in the UK and Northern Europe, who simply cannot compete on "standard" tomatoes from the big commercial growers in sun-drenched Southern Europe!


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## billy_bob (Dec 8, 2022)

pogofish said:


> They are older strains of tomato that until recently were not or no longer grown commercially in any significant quantities compared to the strains currently favoured by large scale agriculture - different reasons why, some didn't crop as prolifically, they may not have been as consistent in size or taste, their colours can be very variable and may not have been pure red. Some strains even remain green when ripe! Others are dull red, yellowish or a muddy purple/brown.
> 
> However in the current foody climate, they have become popular again and the generally premium prices make them attractive to growers, particularly smaller/market garden-type operations in the UK and Northern Europe, who simply cannot compete on "standard" tomatoes from the big commercial growers in sun-drenched Southern Europe!



TL;DR: a poncy, expensive tomato


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## nastyned (Monday at 3:58 PM)

Oooops 








						Brewdog boss pays out £500,000 in gold can row
					

James Watt says he made some "costly mistakes" in ads offering people a chance to win gold cans.



					www.bbc.co.uk


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## Spymaster (Monday at 4:00 PM)

Saw that this morning. 

I've been trying to guess who'd post it first on here!


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## dessiato (Monday at 4:01 PM)

pogofish said:


> They are older strains of tomato that until recently were not or no longer grown commercially in any significant quantities compared to the strains currently favoured by large scale agriculture - different reasons why, some didn't crop as prolifically, they may not have been as consistent in size or taste, their colours can be very variable and may not have been pure red. Some strains even remain green when ripe! Others are dull red, yellowish or a muddy purple/brown.
> 
> However in the current foody climate, they have become popular again and the generally premium prices make them attractive to growers, particularly smaller/market garden-type operations in the UK and Northern Europe, who simply cannot compete on "standard" tomatoes from the big commercial growers in sun-drenched Southern Europe!


It disappoints me everytime I go to buy tomatoes. They're one of my favourite foods. But in the UK the flavours and varieties are poor.


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## friedaweed (Monday at 4:21 PM)

billy_bob said:


> TL;DR: a poncy, expensive tomato


Well originally they were just ordinary tomatoes that were replaced by 'poncy' hybrids that we're easier for mass production. I grow a few heirloom farieties of veg and they taste and smell like veg used to smell when you were a kid, cauliflower being the most notable, it stinks the house out and tastes devine.


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## Spymaster (Monday at 4:23 PM)

dessiato said:


> It disappoints me everytime I go to buy tomatoes. They're one of my favourite foods. But in the UK the flavours and varieties are poor.



That's because most of them come from Holland where they're grown under plastic.

Holland is also the world's 4th biggest exporter of lemons. Not a lot of people know that.


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## belboid (Monday at 5:08 PM)

Spymaster said:


> That's because most of them come from Holland where they're grown under plastic.
> 
> Holland is also the world's 4th biggest exporter of lemons. Not a lot of people know that.


ooh, you did factle yesterday, didn't you?


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## billy_bob (Monday at 7:41 PM)

friedaweed said:


> Well originally they were just ordinary tomatoes that were replaced by 'poncy' hybrids that we're easier for mass production. I grow a few heirloom farieties of veg and they taste and smell like veg used to smell when you were a kid, cauliflower being the most notable, it stinks the house out and tastes devine.



I agree with you about most veg but not tomatoes, which I despise unless they're cooked to mush and wish to see stripped of all taste and smell as far as possible.


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## friedaweed (Monday at 8:10 PM)

billy_bob said:


> I agree with you about most veg but not tomatoes, which I despise unless they're cooked to mush and wish to see stripped of all taste and smell as far as possible.


A nice salsa then?


----------

