# Brixton Village/Granville Arcade indoor market, Brixton



## Ms T (Dec 14, 2009)

Firstly, please can we have the old name back.  Brixton Village just isn't right.  

Anyhow, me and han popped in today to see what was going on with the regeneration attempts.  Quite a few units have been occupied - there's a vintage clothes shop, a deli, a shop called the Sweet Store which is opening in January, what looks like an art installation and a shop selling interesting looking fabrics.  Not sure how long all of them are going to be there.  No 1 Village Bakery (taken over by Rosie of Rosie's Deli) is definitely a pop-up shop.

I'd like to see a few more shops that are going to appeal to the wider community in Brixton but I think it's definitely worth popping down there when they open on Thursday, I think.  There are still a lot of empty units, so the whole market really needs our support.

There's also an oral history project which is looking for people to talk about the market and how it used to be.  (Mrs M - I think you should definitely give them the benefit of your Brixton knowledge.)


----------



## ajdown (Dec 14, 2009)

We had an email about it today at work.



> INVITATION: Spacemakers Christmas Celebration this Thursday
> 
> You are warmly invited to the Spacemakers Chirstmas Celebration this Thursday between 4-9pm at Brixton Village Atlantic Road/Coldharbour Lane, Brixton SW9 8PS.
> 
> ...


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 19, 2009)

A few photos of the new shops


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 19, 2009)

Transition Town in conjunction with Friends of Brixton Market have set up a community shop.At the moment its rent free for 3 months. After that they are hoping to try and keep it open longer.

Other photos are a new clothes shop and view of arcade. They have revealed the old shopfront which looks nice-see old lettering at top of shop.


----------



## Gramsci (Dec 19, 2009)

from email about Community Shop


Brixton Community Shop: 6, First Avenue, Granville Arcade (Brixton Village), Brixton Market, SW9 8PR
and Remade in Brixton Work-Shop, 5, First Avenue.

We are delighted to announce that Transition Town Brixton, together with the B£, the Brixton Market Traders Federation and Friends of Brixton Market, has been given a free space in the heart of Brixton! As part of the Space Makers initiative, what was an empty market unit will be transformed (initially for three months) into a buzzing community space for people to come together, discuss and contribute to create and enact a vision for Brixton as a thriving, inclusive and sustainable community and economy. It also has a large room above which we hope to develop as an office, resource, reading, meeting, training space. Remade in Brixton TTB's 'waste as resources' group has the shop next door. See below for details of workshops and what is for sale there.

Opportunities:
We are are looking for volunteers to keep the spaces open Monday-Saturday, in the New Year and help develop them. There is the beginning of a TTB library and resource centre in the room above the shop. Much needs sorting and cataloguing. Please email with Community Shop in the subject line or, better still, sign up via the webform. We will be in touch to arrange to meet you at the space and work out how you can contribute.

We are applying to the Future Jobs Fund for 3 paid posts - Shop Manager and Assistant Coordinator for TTB, Project Manager for the B£, and a Outreach and Marketing Person for Remade in Brixton. If you are on Jobseekers Allowance and would like to be considered for these paid posts please email with Future Jobs in the subject line.

Stuff needed: stacking chairs, bookshelves, filing cabinet,

We have a to do list and a wants list here. Please visit and sign up for stuff. Let us know on the email that you have.


----------



## editor (Jan 21, 2010)

It's certainly brightened up what was a seriously ailing part of Granville Arcade (yes _Granville Arcade_ - not this rubbish 'Village' nonsense) , even if it bits of it are a bit art-hipster-wank.

Still, it's better to have something going on than empty spaces, and hopefully it'll kick start some life into the arcade.

Anyhow, I popped by a few days ago and took a few pics on my iCrap camera:



















http://www.urban75.org/brixton/photos/brixton-village-indoor-market.html


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 21, 2010)

I really enjoyed the food event last Saturday. It's really hard not to warm to the idea of making positive use of empty spaces. I was slightly concerned at the number of tight jeans and silly haircuts in attendance though.

Councillor John Kazantzis confirmed at the full council meeting last night that Space Makers have been invited to set up similar schemes in Streatham and Norwood. Plenty of empty space in Streatham right now...


----------



## dougald (Jan 22, 2010)

Hi everyone! Thanks for giving us the benefit of the doubt, despite the tight jeans/silly haircuts. (No one could accuse me of having a haircut... ;-) And the photos are great.

We're doing events at Granville every Saturday, 11 till 5, so do come down and say hello. Tomorrow is Craft Crazy - we're organising a pop-up craft fair with stalls around the market, and there are loads of workshops and activities going on in the shops.

If you'd like to sell your handmade stuff, we still have pitches available free of charge. (Our neighbours at the new academy on Somerleyton Road just offered us as many tables as we need for the day, so we've got room for everyone.) To book a pitch, sign up here:

http://granvillecraft.eventbrite.com/

Then next Saturday (30th) we're planning a performance festival with stand-up comedy, performance poetry, magic, clowning and more - and on Sat 6th Feb we're going to have a Granville Cultural Festival, celebrating all the nationalities represented in the market, with food, music and activities.

We're very much open to suggestions for other events at the market - it's all coming together in a pretty DIY fashion (i.e. chaotically), but we've had lots of people pitching in.

Also, I put up a post on the Space Makers blog the other day, trying to get a bit of perspective on how the project's gone so far. Interested to hear anyone's opinions:

http://spacemakers.org.uk/2010/01/space-makers-in-brixton-how-are-we-doing/


----------



## netbob (Jan 22, 2010)

Welcome to the boards


----------



## katzstar (Jan 27, 2010)

Hello all, 

Here's a bit more info about the performance festival at Granville that Dougald mentioned. The event runs from 11am to 5pm on Saturday 30th January and there's a bunch of great stuff lined up! 

For one day only, the 1930s Brixton Village market, aka Granville Arcade, will be transformed into a playground of pop-up acts and show-stopping performances. The market will play host to a mesmerising medley of diverse and dynamic acts, arts and entertainers, including: a flash mob comedy show; Tom Matchett’s one-man mini pop opera; Artinavan’s interactive photo booth; a Sweet Tooth storytelling session for the under-10s, an improv theatre production; one of Adrian Lee’s 'All Marble Crew'; an accordionist-led children’s musical parade; Nichol Keene’s ode to Brixton, a brilliant burst of harmony from the highly acclaimed Pegasus Opera, and hourly performances of ‘The Little Shop Of Lost Toys’- the latest theatre experience by Spontaneous Productions. Plus lots more pop-up surprises, magical mystery guests and musical showcases which really aren’t to be missed!

Just like all the best shows, there really is something for everyone, so we warmly invite you to roll up roll up for what promises to be an unforgettable day of entertaining experiences in Brixton’s best and buzziest market.

We look forward to seeing you there; and, if you fancy getting involved and would love the chance to show off your talent, then fear not - we still have a few pop-up slots available. Just get in touch with Space Makers: info@spacemakers.org.uk


----------



## netbob (Feb 15, 2010)

I just spotted this on twitter saying that the shops are being run by local artists and activists, anyone know how true that is: http://www.treehugger.com/files/2010/02/creating-community-brixton.php

My feeling is it is not, but don't know for sure.


----------



## Planty (Feb 16, 2010)

There was a fantastic pop-up 'shop' there on Saturday  - a chap with a collection of artworks (characters) that he'd carved from wood he'd found largely around the market, alongside a couple of animated films including the characters propelling themselves around the arcade.  I was very inspired by it all - and by him, really interesting guy. Can't remember his name but I'd absolutely recommend you go have a look if he comes back.


----------



## Orang Utan (Feb 19, 2010)

i was there today and it looked cheerful and bright, if not exactly busy.
ps i like the name of brixton village - it gives it more of an aura of community, which ain't a bad thing. i've always known it as brixton village though.


----------



## mrtea (Mar 4, 2010)

The only problem I have with Granville, is 'Open All Hours'


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2010)

It's not really my kind of thing they're doing there and most of the people involved seem more hipster than Brixton, but I can't complain about them breathing new life into what was a truly dead part of the market. I now always walk through the arcade because there's usually something going on. The new coffee place is good too.


----------



## innit (Mar 4, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> i was there today and it looked cheerful and bright, if not exactly busy.
> ps i like the name of brixton village - it gives it more of an aura of community, which ain't a bad thing. i've always known it as brixton village though.



It's been Brixton Village for donkeys, hasn't it?  I think I just about remember it changing - but I'm not even sure about that - and I've been here about 11 years.

oh and ed, I'm going to check out the coffee place today - it looked good in your pictures.


----------



## pboi (Mar 4, 2010)

editor said:


> It's not really my kind of thing they're doing there and most of the people involved seem more hipster than Brixton, but I can't complain about them breathing new life into what was a truly dead part of the market. I now always walk through the arcade because there's usually something going on. The new coffee place is good too.



welcome to the new Brixton


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 4, 2010)

he's right, loath though i am to agree with him.
it's as brixton as you are ed.


----------



## pboi (Mar 4, 2010)

ewww a ginger just agreed with me. Take it back.


----------



## innit (Mar 4, 2010)

I liked the coffee place - the guys who ran it seemed friendly and nice.  The coffee was good.  Between the super strong latte and the super sugary brownie I am absolutely flying


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> he's right, loath though i am to agree with him.
> it's as brixton as you are ed.


Not really, seeing as most of those shops will be long gone in a month or two, such is the nature of the 'pop up shop' concept.

I don't think they represent the new face of Brixton either: step outside the Granville Arcade enclave and it's business as usual.

Besides, I haven't got any problem with having a slice of Hoxton tucked away in the arcade. Variety is the spice of life and all that.


----------



## Orang Utan (Mar 4, 2010)

why compare it to Hoxton?
it's Brixton!


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> why compare it to Hoxton?
> it's Brixton!


Possibly because some of the pop up shops in the arcade are based in Hoxton/East London.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Mar 4, 2010)

editor said:


> Possibly because some of the pop up shops in the arcade are based in Hoxton/East London.



True, but not all of them. One of the main faces behind Spackermakers has liked the area so much, he's staying around to see what else can be achieved.

I buy the hipster thing to an extent, but I also like the way that Spakemakers have been keen to learn from the locals.

Bit more on Spacermakers here.


----------



## editor (Mar 4, 2010)

Hey, I'm not knocking it all. I think it's great how they've rejuvenated what was a totally dead and forlorn part of the market.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Mar 4, 2010)

No worries! 

...although I did stroke my chin and ponder the whole point of the 'geo piano' that was outside the old boy selling his sweetcorn on Saturday


----------



## matt m (Mar 5, 2010)

I had a great business idea to run past them yesterday: a £1.01 shop.

Basically, I will buy tons of crap from the 99p shop, and it all for £1.01 per item. Thus making a profit of 2p on every item I sell. If I sell 500 items, that's a tenner!


----------



## gaijingirl (Mar 8, 2010)

the arcade is on the BBC evening news at the moment as an example of what could be done for similar run down shopping areas...


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2010)

Anyone been to the cinema yet?






Federation coffee is ace. 






http://www.urban75.org/brixton/photos/brixton-village-indoor-market-more.html


----------



## pboi (Mar 8, 2010)

I want to make sweet sweet love to that cawfee


----------



## editor (Mar 8, 2010)

The coffees really are top notch - and the brownies have absurd amounts of chocolate in them.


----------



## Choc (Mar 13, 2010)

that coffee looks good.

why is it i moved before all tose new tings.


----------



## editor (Mar 13, 2010)

The place was buzzing today!


















http://www.urban75.org/brixton/photos/brixton-village-indoor-market-march-2010.html


----------



## matt m (Mar 13, 2010)

yeah, the music went really well. JD even sold a few CDs I think.

Laura Victoria played some v interesting laidback and spooky cello songs

I managed to wing a bit of banjo playing on some spontaneous trad bluegrass numbers with a new resident of Brixton, Ryan Carr. He's a pretty nifty jazz/country/bluegrass mandolinist and guitarist from Canada.

One half of the Severed Limb came up afterwards to say he'd enjoyed it and find out if they could play sometime. I replied that I'd sent them a myspace message asking if they wanted to play this afternoon and they'd said they couldn't make it! 
(To be fair, I think it was the other half that had replied, and he was indeed out of town today)

We'll do it again sometime, but not for a couple of weeks - I had to lug two guitar amps, a banjo, a guitar, a micstand and a bag of leads etc on my own from Bellefields Road to the market.


----------



## pboi (Mar 13, 2010)

looks fantastiche


----------



## editor (Mar 13, 2010)

matt m said:


> yeah, the music went really well. JD even sold a few CDs I think.
> 
> Laura Victoria played some v interesting laidback and spooky cello songs
> 
> ...


Shame I missed you! If you fancy a low key gig next Friday, I've got an Offline night...


----------



## matt m (Mar 13, 2010)

yeah, I'd be up for that.

mind you if you haven't heard what I do, then you can have a listen here:
www.myspace.com/mattmilton0

and here:


(and feel free to change your mind if you don't like it or don't think it's appropriate or whatever...)

I've PMd you as well.


----------



## pboi (Mar 13, 2010)

that jumper!

that beard!!

get him on the Offline!


----------



## matt m (Mar 14, 2010)

the beard was a one-off. it was an obligatory rule of taking part in 'Folk Idol', the Local's annual christmas piss-up/piss-take.

the jumper still makes the occasional appearance though.


----------



## Ms T (Mar 27, 2010)

You've got to hand it to Spacemakers - BV was buzzing again today.  Very encouraging, although it's pretty dead during the week which is a shame.  I'm liking the new Italian café - I got some fantastic fresh tagliatelle from him which was delicious and not too expensive at £3 which fed two of us for dinner tonight.


----------



## pboi (Mar 27, 2010)

curse those people and their jobs


----------



## editor (Mar 27, 2010)

pboi said:


> curse those people and their jobs


What are you on about?


----------



## pboi (Mar 27, 2010)

Ms T moaning about it being dead in the weekdays. Pretty silly comment


----------



## quimcunx (Mar 27, 2010)

Now if someone could bump this_ before_ I head out on on Saturday, that would be handy.  I keep forgetting to go down.


----------



## trabuquera (Mar 27, 2010)

It's all a bit bonkers and I can't imagine much of it would be workable at going "market" rates, but it's excellent to see that once increasingly-gloomy space being filled up ... even on a mid friday afternoon there seemed to be a bit more foot traffic about in that section than there used to be.

another vote for Federation's indescribably gorgeous coffee - possibly the best in South London, not just Brixton.


----------



## editor (Mar 28, 2010)

Yep - I reckon Federation's brew is just about the best in Brixton, if not further afield. Nice people too.


----------



## Ms T (Mar 28, 2010)

pboi said:


> Ms T moaning about it being dead in the weekdays. Pretty silly comment



I wasn't "moaning", I was commenting that it's going to be difficult for all those new businesses to survive on the basis of one day a week.


----------



## IamSnakes (Mar 28, 2010)

There coffee is amazing - As my girlfiend always tells me Kiwis make the best coffee...

BV does seem to go from strength to strength - I think that cafes and restaurants seem to do the best there at the moment.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Mar 28, 2010)

pboi said:


> Pretty silly comment


That takes the biscuit coming from you! You're famed for the inane! Still, thanks for the guffaw quotient with that one. My husband called up the stairs asking what I was finding so hilarious.


----------



## pboi (Mar 28, 2010)

cool story bro.  Remember to tell us when you next guffaw when you look in the mirror.


----------



## brix (Mar 28, 2010)

pboi said:


> cool story bro.  Remember to tell us when you next guffaw when you look in the mirror.



You're so witty pboi!


----------



## editor (Mar 28, 2010)

pboi said:


> cool story bro.  Remember to tell us when you next guffaw when you look in the mirror.


I'm pretty sure most people are interested in talking about the market rather than hearing your pointless contributions, so could you be a dear and zip it now please?

Thanks, awfully.


----------



## pboi (Mar 28, 2010)

same goes for Ms Magpie I assume


----------



## brix (Mar 28, 2010)

pboi said:


> same goes for Ms Magpie I assume





No, it just applies to you because you're acting like a tosser and she's not.


----------



## Ms T (Apr 2, 2010)

Had lunch at Islander's Kitchen today - run by a lovely Filipina woman called Margareta.  Rarely have I been served with such warmth and friendliness, and the food was very good too.  I had a Good Friday special of udon noodle soup with cod balls and can't wait to go back and try some of her other things.

Also had lunch at the new Italian café the other day - a superlative pasta bake that was very nice indeed.  And the coffee at Federation Coffee is stunning.


----------



## matt m (Apr 3, 2010)

Ms T said:


> I was commenting that it's going to be difficult for all those new businesses to survive on the basis of one day a week.



I could be wrong, and I'll check with the spacemakers lot (Tuesdays 6pm Dogstar, if anyone fancies coming along) but I don't think there are any barriers to any of those stallholders using them all week.

People can bag space for a "Saturdays pop-up shop" to do whatever they want with - commerce, workshop, performance, whatever - but those take place in unused stalls. If there's a cafe or restaurant only open on a Saturday, then I get the impression that is that cafe/restaurant-owner's own choice. If they wanted it the whole week, they could have it. (I think...!) The impression I get from Spacemakers is that they'd like those spaces to be used all working days if they could be.

From what I can see, the nouveau stallholders that will last the longest - and remain once SPmakers have moved on - will be the food-related ones. Brixton does love to eat. It seems there's never too many cafes, restaurants, butchers, fishmongers etc in Brixton. 

I can't see the vintage clothes/art gallery type spaces lasting the course. I just don't think they've got the turnover necessary to keep a stall going on the regular market rental prices. Whereas cafes, restaurants etc - as this thread goes to show - are perennially popular.

And also they're perennially popular across the board. Sure, white middle class people are admittedly probably about 80 percent of BVillage's foodie patrons, you still see a broader mix of people in the restaurants than you do in any of the more Shoreditchey pop-up shops.


----------



## matt m (Apr 3, 2010)

by the way, here's advance heads up for a mini music fest on the Brixton Village forecourt, 11-6 on Saturday April 17th.

Will feature Marmaduke Dando, If She Floats, Boycott Coca Cola Experience, Julia Biel, Lion O'Brien and others TBC.


----------



## Ms T (Apr 3, 2010)

You misunderstood me, matt m.  What I meant was that shops can't survive on the basis of one *busy* day.  

I agree about the food thing though.  One of the vintage shops, which I really liked, has already closed down now the three months free rent has come to an end.


----------



## lang rabbie (Apr 6, 2010)

There was a story last month on Friends of Brixton Market's website that English Heritage had changed their minds and were minded to recommend "listing" Market Row and Reliance Arcade as historic buildings, but not Granville Arcade (aka "Brixton Village") which was the area most threatened by redevelopment.

Today, Building Design (paywall) and the Daily Telegraph  both have a story that Culture Minister Margaret Hodge has "listed" the whole of Brixton Market.

However, I can't find any official Government News Network press release to this effect.

The Telegraph story has the geography of Brixton completely arse about face so I'm not sure how much of the rest of the story makes sense.


----------



## netbob (Apr 6, 2010)

lang rabbie said:


> Building Design (paywall) and the Daily Telegraph both have a story that Margaret Hodge has "listed" Brixton Market.
> 
> However, I can't find any official Government News Network press release to this effect.



The friends of Brixton Market blog is very confused too. Suggests that market Row (which is currently having its frontage removed, so might be too late) and Reliance Arcade are covered.

http://www.friendsofbrixtonmarket.org/brixton-market-listing-update/

Nothing about the Victorian bits or Granville.

Plus this from Labour council candidate and Friends of Brixton market volunteer: http://twitter.com/brixtonalex/status/11711088286


----------



## mrchristopher (Apr 6, 2010)

The Friends of Brixton Market article is a month out of date.

I'm being optimistic - it certainly sounds like all three indoor markets have been listed.


----------



## netbob (Apr 7, 2010)

This looks more promising: http://www.bdonline.co.uk/story.asp?storycode=3161286&origin=BDdaily


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Apr 7, 2010)

Yes!
Thanks memespring 



			
				bdonline said:
			
		

> Culture minister Ben Bradshaw has overthrown his previous decision not to list the south London suburb’s three covered markets, made in 2008.
> 
> Following fresh advice from English Heritage, Bradshaw has agreed that the historical significance of three markets at Reliance Arcade, Market Row and Granville Arcade should be taken into account.



Nice to see it's the whole kit and kaboodle, and that Granville Arcade is called Granville Arcade.


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

well that puts a big crimp on the previous redevelopment plans!  (where's the thread for that by the way?)

it also makes an Overground station even more difficult and costly


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Apr 7, 2010)

Why not just reopen the one on Barrington Road? Medussa (sic) is the old station building iirc. I can't remember how all those lines link up though....is there a problem with Brixton Overground station then? Can you enlighten me?


----------



## Crispy (Apr 7, 2010)

Mrs Magpie said:


> Why not just reopen the one on Barrington Road? Medussa (sic) is the old station building iirc. I can't remember how all those lines link up though....is there a problem with Brixton Overground station then? Can you enlighten me?


It's a bit far away from the center of Brixton, so interchange with the underground and the other mainline would involve a walk. It would certainly be easier to build, but would probably be under-used. Anyway, there's _another_ thread for that (which details exactly why it's so expensive and hard to put a station on the high-level viaduct at Brixton)


----------



## Gramsci (Apr 30, 2010)

The Brixton Village is opening late on Thursdays. There was food on last night outside and I saw this Chinese Dragon.


----------



## Gramsci (Apr 30, 2010)

Liked this Unicorn


----------



## brix (May 2, 2010)

Is Graville Arcade open on Sundays?  I'm pretty sure it isn't but a friend just asked and I thought I'd check.


----------



## miss minnie (May 2, 2010)

No, its not.  Yet.  Chatting to a few of the people running the new shops down there, the opinion is 'give it a couple of months'.


----------



## brix (May 2, 2010)

miss minnie said:


> No, its not.  Yet.  Chatting to a few of the people running the new shops down there, the opinion is 'give it a couple of months'.



Thanks miss minnie


----------



## Ms T (May 21, 2010)

I had a really great (and cheap!) dinner with a friend at Cornercopia in Brixton Village last night.  The whole place was really buzzy and I'd definitely recommend a trip down there on Thursday nights, especially when the weather's nice.

They're having a Studio 54 night next Thursday (27th May) and one of the new shops, Circus, is having a clothes swap if anyone's interested.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2010)

I popped in last night too. Great to see the place buzzing.
We went on the Brixton Pound Shop at the Albert afterwards which was hugely entertaining!


----------



## Biddlybee (May 24, 2010)

Don't often get the chance, but I have Friday off so going to have a wander round... finally try this coffee at Federation Coffee, and treat myself to some lunch 

(or might go to and have a pizza to myself somewhere else )


----------



## innit (May 24, 2010)

We had lunch at Cornercopia on Saturday (at last!) - it was fantastic.  The set lunch is unbelievable value and you can take your own booze


----------



## Biddlybee (May 24, 2010)

What sort of food is it? The last time I went I'm sure they were only selling a few pickles and jams


----------



## innit (May 24, 2010)

BiddlyBee said:


> What sort of food is it? The last time I went I'm sure they were only selling a few pickles and jams



Oh god, I can't describe it   sort of modern and eclectic?

Yesterday my boyfriend had tomato and cannellini bean soup to start, I had a gorgeous pea and broad bean salad; then we both had aubergine and ricotta cheesecake (really, really good) with a moroccan style salad; our friend had mullet with japanese-esque veg (wasabi was involved). and we shared a chocolate and chilli terrine for pudding.


----------



## nagapie (May 24, 2010)

Last time I was at the Arcade I saw a new place which is apparently going to be a pizza place. They'll need some support if they're going to compete against Franoa Manca.


----------



## Rushy (May 24, 2010)

nagapie said:


> Last time I was at the Arcade I saw a new place which is apparently going to be a pizza place. They'll need some support if they're going to compete against Franoa Manca.



Except on Thursdays when FM has to close by 5.30 and Granville opens late until 10 or so. If late night openings work I understand the plan is for Granville to be open later more often.


----------



## editor (May 24, 2010)

*Brixton Village/Granville Arcade*

I'm in the new pizza place in Brixton Village now. Love the open seating an loads of papers to read but they're all over the place.

After being told that they made the best pizzas in the world, we ordered  two veggie slices and waited.
And waited.

Eventually went to the counter to ask where they were and were shown a tray of ham pizzas in the oven.

So it's an even longer wait in store. Not a good start, so these pizza slices better be fucking good.


----------



## editor (May 24, 2010)

*Brixton Village/Granville Arcade*

This is the place:


----------



## Ms T (May 24, 2010)

Rushy said:


> Except on Thursdays when FM has to close by 5.30 and Granville opens late until 10 or so. If late night openings work I understand the plan is for Granville to be open later more often.



Market Row is opening late on a Thursday too - I got an e-mail about it the other week.


----------



## happyshopper (May 24, 2010)

*New pizza place*

The pizza's are fine. The service is friendly but rubbish.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 24, 2010)

nagapie said:


> Last time I was at the Arcade I saw a new place which is apparently going to be a pizza place. They'll need some support if they're going to compete against Franoa Manca.




I can see plenty of people being attracted by a shorter queue tbh.


----------



## editor (May 24, 2010)

When it finally arrived, the pizza slice wasn't bad at all and I like the space too - there was loads of papers to read (which is handy of they forget your order) and you can watch market shoppers go by.

I like the place (what's it called, btw?) and £1.50 for a slice is good value.


----------



## lang rabbie (May 24, 2010)

editor said:


> I like the place (what's it called, btw?) and £1.50 for a slice is good value.



I think it is the Agile Rabbit - hence the bunny on the chalkboard.

Edited to add: it isn't a chalkboard, is it - is is something to do with the competition this Thursday


----------



## Mainframeguy (May 28, 2010)

Can I put a little plug in here?

this is not spam - when I happen to mention...
not me personally - but Comm-Tech (Alan, volunteers et. al.) will be promoting and offering Linux boxen at Brixton Village this Saturday again, Urbanites welcome and appreciated.
This time we even have a couple of duo core laptops on offer
you can snap them up for a song - with Lucid already on
end of promotion
 preferential prices offered to URBAN75 members - just say Paul sent you

really end of promotion!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 11, 2010)

it's nice to see the space being used, but hasn't it become a bit of a white middle class ghetto? it looks like some kind of apartheid is at work.


----------



## miss minnie (Jun 11, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> it's nice to see the space being used, but hasn't it become a bit of a white middle class ghetto? it looks like some kind of apartheid is at work.


Ghetto?  Apartheid?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 11, 2010)

well you know what i mean. i was being a bit tabloid!


----------



## matt m (Jun 11, 2010)

Sort of. From what I saw, the vintage frock shops and gallery/arts/theatre/poetry spaces were patronised almost exclusively by white, middle-class people.

But there's not very many of those left really. The shop units that seem to be here to stay are mainly food places. And those cafe and restaurant spaces seem to have a fair old mix of customers. I don't think there are any limits to Brixton's appetite for eating.

Yes, overall, it's not unfair to say that the tendency of the new shop units is towards the goods and wants and tastes and livestyles associated with the metropolitan middle class, as typified by the weekend Guardian and Observer supplements. 

But at least the new units rub shoulders with the already-existing butchers and fishmongers and clothes stalls. You can't say that about Spitalfields market or Portobello. And some of the new units are occupied by some of the cheap trainer and boot stalls you'd find in the other market arcades.

And also, well, I don't think anyone in spacemakers would say they were saving the world, or curing cancer, y'know?

If, say, the spacemakers project had resulted in an identikit extension of the existing market, we'd probably all be complaining about _that_ instead.


----------



## miss minnie (Jun 11, 2010)

matt m said:


> And also, well, I don't think anyone in spacemakers would say they were saving the world, or curing cancer, y'know?


No?  What do you mean?


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 11, 2010)

matt m said:


> Sort of. From what I saw, the vintage frock shops and gallery/arts/theatre/poetry spaces were patronised almost exclusively by white, middle-class people.
> 
> But there's not very many of those left really. The shop units that seem to be here to stay are mainly food places. And those cafe and restaurant spaces seem to have a fair old mix of customers. I don't think there are any limits to Brixton's appetite for eating.
> 
> ...


yes, i'm glad there's more food places for sure!


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 11, 2010)

miss minnie said:


> No?  What do you mean?



the communist shop might disagree!


----------



## Ms T (Jun 11, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> it's nice to see the space being used, but hasn't it become a bit of a white middle class ghetto? it looks like some kind of apartheid is at work.



My favourite new shop (Circus) is part run by a black woman, as is the sweet shop.  The Federation Coffee clientele is very mixed


----------



## matt m (Jun 11, 2010)

miss minnie said:


> No?  What do you mean?



I just mean that it's a project to make use of under-used spaces that would otherwise be going to waste. So I think you have to be quite sanguine about the fact that when that under-used space happens to be a market, you end up with, essentially, a market, not a whole new Brixton with all its race and class demographics beautifully aligned.


----------



## netbob (Jun 11, 2010)

From the LAP annual report. 



> At our markets in Brixton, South London, we have focused over the last year on improving occupancy and increasing the footfall across both of the markets that we own there. This has been particularly the case with those units in Brixton Village, one of the two markets, that have historically been hard to let away from the main pedestrian flows. We have enjoyed some success through the introduction
> of flexible leases for an initial 3 month trial period.* These have only been available for retailers who we believe will add substantially to the quality of the tenant mix*.
> 
> The result of this initiative is that Market Row, the more successful of the markets, remains effectively fully let while Brixton Village now has 90% occupancy for the first time. Of the 17 tenants that commenced trading on flexible leases, 10 have now converted to full leases at a market rent. As a result the rental income for these two properties has increased by 9.4% over the last 12 months.



My reading of this is they hired Spacemakers specifically to move the market up-market. That would also explain the rumours of rent increases for some of the existing tenants.


----------



## matt m (Jun 11, 2010)

I think you're probably right.

But it's not a clear-cut situation.

London & Associated Properties wanted to sell the market. So it would make sense that they would have been trying to make it more upmarket (no pun intended) to try to get the best price on a sale. Those 'flexible leases' could be seen as simply a cynical way of inflating the market's kudos, irrespective of whether or not a shop unit lasts longer than 3 weeks.

Then it won listed status, which means suddenly it's not really of interest to any developers that LAP would've been hoping to sell it to. So I imagine LAP will be hanging onto it for a lot longer.

It'd make sense if LAP would be, therefore, hoping to maximise their returns by getting as much rent as they could out of their tenants, seeing as they're stuck with the market for the foreseeable future.

While that's not nice, it's capitalism and not unusual among landlords: charging whatever rent they can get away with charging. 

"Flexible leases" aside (which I think have finished now anyway), I'd be surprised if they were hoiking up rents for units they considered 'downmarket' but not doing so for ones they considered 'upmarket'. Someone better informed than me could tell me whether or not that would be illegal (I suspect so). 

But quite apart from anything, pizza stalls, cakes and frock shops are just as financially vulnerable as fishmongers or butchers. Witness how many places from those new units haven't actually lasted. If anything, those 'downmarket' units have stood the test of time, unlike many of the new units, and LAP aren't fools: it wouldn't be in their interest to price them out of the market (!) on the untested gamble of newer chi-chi places. Surely?


----------



## innit (Jun 11, 2010)

It depends whether you read the sentence as turning on "quality" or on "tenant mix", I guess.  They've certainly increased / improved the diversity of tenants compared to last autumn, even if the initial spacemakers bunch were heavily weighted towards vintage places.  OTOH if you read it as being about "quality" then that does sound as though they wanted to take things in a more upmarket direction.

Either way they have increased the number and diversity of customers walking through the market - I now have friends buying veg in there who'd never been in until a few months ago.

The old tenants don't seem unhappy about the changes at all.


----------



## miss minnie (Jun 27, 2010)

A bit of a Japanese event there yesterday with a kimono-clad lady performing tea-ceremonies for customers next to Cornercopia all afternoon.

Was nice to see the 'geisha' still in costume as she queued for a latte from Federation Coffee afterwards.


----------



## Greenfish (Jun 27, 2010)

everywhere in south london that starts up these days looks vulnerable. i am so used to seeing shops fizzle out instead of prosper; not their own fault, just the times.

i always find it very, very sad to see a small local business fail


----------



## Ms T (Jun 27, 2010)

Apparently Brixton Village is going to be in the New York Times travel section in July.  A lady who works for the NYT was staying with friends in the area and loved it so much she's going to write about it.  

Does that mean we'll get American tourists in Brixton?


----------



## Winot (Jun 27, 2010)

Wasn't there a woman that used to do tours of the Market a few years back?


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jun 27, 2010)

Yes, she posted here for a while...can't remember her name though.


----------



## Mrs Magpie (Jun 27, 2010)

Can't find that poster, but here's a thread from 5 years ago...

www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=120691


----------



## miss minnie (Jul 1, 2010)

Japanese girls in kimonos on stilts dancing to a rockabilly band. This was the entertainment at the Granville Arcade this evening. Food was pretty good, not the best I've had but the sideshow made up for it.

Pix here


----------



## editor (Jul 21, 2010)

The protests have started about the proposed mahoosive rent hikes. What the fuck are the owners thinking? The market's only just getting going and now they're trying to price locals out.


----------



## netbob (Jul 22, 2010)

editor said:


> The protests have started about the proposed mahoosive rent hikes. What the fuck are the owners thinking? The market's only just getting going and now they're trying to price locals out.



Once the owner's plans for the flats/private park were scuppered, something made permanent by the subsequent listing, and they were left with one way of making it pay for them - work out how to the maximise rents.

The quote from the annual report suggests that they saw hiring Spacemakers as a successful way of going upmarket and raising rents (assuming I'm reading that part correctly, I agree it's open to various interpretations) and the profile of the market.

Personally I think Spacemakers (totally aside from the businesses they helped bring in) have some questions to answer. Directly complicit or just nieve (I've heard different things from different people) they have helped create a situation where LAP are able to consider a sweep-out of long-term tenants in both markets. 

I'm really hoping all the tenants (old and new) manage to stick together over this and Spacemakers support them all.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2010)

Even if they did successfully evict the current tenants, what high end businesses would went to move into a space that is still massively under-performing? At the moment, it's only the wacky student stuff and the quirky shops (and excellent coffee shop) that are driving new traffic into the place.

If they tried to shove in some of the rumoured expensive Borough Market-style chi-chi businesses, I imagine it would simply head back into a slow decline as such shops would never create much footfall, given the location.


----------



## Ms T (Jul 26, 2010)

Agreed.  Most of the businesses, old and new, are likely to be priced out.


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

Coming soon in Brixton Village:

Straight outta Clapham: Breads Etcetera patisserie/bakery/cafe





http://www.timeout.com/london/restaurants/venue/2:1522/breads-etcetera

Also: Federation Coffee is moving a few units down to new one twice the size of the original.


----------



## Orang Utan (Sep 2, 2010)

tis a whitewash, though a pleasant-tasting one


----------



## tarannau (Sep 2, 2010)

I'd like to say this was a surprise, but I've been cynical about the effect of Spacemakers and the likely actions of the landlords for some time.


----------



## miss minnie (Sep 2, 2010)

I had my bets on Borough Market traders moving in given what is happening at their site and their little expansion into Clapham.

After all, we desperately need a Monmouth Coffee House given the utter lack of caffeine availabe in the area!


----------



## editor (Sep 2, 2010)

Orang Utan said:


> tis a whitewash, though a pleasant-tasting one


I'm unlikely to be shifting my allegiance from the lovely bread available from the Atlantic Rd deli unless their bread is reasonably priced and spectacular.


----------



## miss minnie (Sep 2, 2010)

Iirc, compared to the FM bakers... better than Old PO Bakery, cheaper than Born and Bred but not as good as Luca imo.

The thing people rave about are their baked beans apparently.  So friends tell me at least, I've not tried them.

Have had a couple of nice meals in there, not spectacular though.  The 'unlimited bread basket for making toast at your table' idea is quite good value.


----------



## nat1 (Sep 4, 2010)

Does anyone else find it very annoying that it seems for half of the week that cornercopia and bellantonio's is closed??  It's totally hit and miss.  Please, particularly cornercopia, your food is so tasty and popular, be open every day!  Or at least be consistent...


----------



## nagapie (Sep 4, 2010)

I've had that a few times as well. Cornercopia told me they were thinking of not opening on a Friday. I think they get really busy on a Thursday night and can't be arsed with Friday, which is apparently not that busy. They're also not open Monday and maybe Tuesday? They're also only open between 12 and 2 a lot of the time.  And the market is closed Sundays. So getting to eat lunch there is trickier than you'd imagine. As a local I go and look but if I was coming from further afield, it might not work.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 4, 2010)

nagapie said:


> I've had that a few times as well. Cornercopia told me they were thinking of not opening on a Friday. I think they get really busy on a Thursday night and can't be arsed with Friday, which is apparently not that busy. They're also not open Monday and maybe Tuesday? They're also only open between 12 and 2 a lot of the time.  And the market is closed Sundays. So getting to eat lunch there is trickier than you'd imagine. As a local I go and look but if I was coming from further afield, it might not work.


 
A lot of small places that are open on Saturday don't open on Monday, tbf.


----------



## nagapie (Sep 5, 2010)

Ms T said:


> A lot of small places that are open on Saturday don't open on Monday, tbf.



I didn't mean it as a criticism. I wouldn't open Monday if I was them and can see why lots of those market traders wouldn't want Sunday openings either, family day innit. I'm not particularly bothered by their laid back attitude, I quite like it, but it does make organising to go there a bit hit and miss. 

I'm back at work now anyway so it's unlikely I'll ever get to sample their delicious food again as Friday's the only day I can make it down.


----------



## Ms T (Sep 5, 2010)




----------



## matt m (Sep 6, 2010)

memespring said:


> Personally I think Spacemakers (totally aside from the businesses they helped bring in) have some questions to answer. Directly complicit or just nieve (I've heard different things from different people) they have helped create a situation where LAP are able to consider a sweep-out of long-term tenants in both markets.
> 
> I'm really hoping all the tenants (old and new) manage to stick together over this and Spacemakers support them all.


 
All the conversations I'd had with spacemakers suggest they are neither naieve nor remotely complicit with LAP. 

LAP wanted to sell Granville Arcade. Irrespective of whether it had a load of unused shop units in it, or whether it had chi-chi delis.

I suspect spacemakers bringing a lot of extra activity to the place helped in winning it listed status. (And if it hadn't won listed status, it would have been sold to developers, so end of market)

But it's beside the point: I suspect the rent hikes would have happened irrespective of who was renting the units. Like the editor pointed out, once it won listed status, LAP will simply want to up the rent.

I doubt the coffee shops and restaurants and 2ndhand clothes shops (*especially* the 2ndhand clothes shops) are making much more money than the butchers/fishmongers/fruit'n'veg stallholders. The latter have been there longer: they've got proven, tried'n'tested businesses. If anything, I'd say the rent hikes will probably hit the more chi-chi places harder: how many vintage frocks do you suppose a shop unit sells an hour? I doubt we're talking double figures.


----------



## nikk23 (Jun 10, 2011)

for those in the know has the village picked up since last year?


----------



## Winot (Jun 10, 2011)

Was there for lunch on Wednesday (Brixton Grill: steak and chips £6.50) and it was rammed.  Seemingly with young Italians. Busiest I've seen it mid-week.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2011)

nikk23 said:


> for those in the know has the village picked up since last year?


It's the busiest I' ve ever seen it on weekends, and there's a lot more people about in the week too.


----------



## netbob (Jun 10, 2011)

matt m said:


> I suspect spacemakers bringing a lot of extra activity to the place helped in winning it listed status. (And if it hadn't won listed status, it would have been sold to developers, so end of market)



The listing happened prior to LAP hiring spacemakers in.


----------



## editor (Jun 10, 2011)

I can say with some certainty that the roof is a bit leaky.


----------



## nikk23 (Jun 11, 2011)

editor said:


> It's the busiest I' ve ever seen it on weekends, and there's a lot more people about in the week too.


 

oh great im headed there next week for a look around and to see if any units are free


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

It was said by a market trader on the BBC yesterday ("we're becoming dinosaurs"), and from my chats with a few more traders today there seems to be truth to the story that the fruit and veg stalls on Electric Avenue are really suffering as a consequence of the changes in Brixton. 

Although every time you see a new Brixton restaurant owner being interviewed, they're always quick to bang on about how they buy all their fresh ingredients from the markets, that's not being backed up by the stalls I spoke to. 

They also said that the people now coming into Brixton are far less likely to buy anything off them, and that's putting their whole future in doubt. 

After seeing the free for all that's taken place in Market Row and Granvile Arcade, I'm now having real doubts about the future of the market.

And if it really is under such threat, is there any hope of it surviving given the growth of supermarkets and the fast-changing demographics?


----------



## MissL (May 21, 2013)

the simplest answer to this is: only if we shop there rather than just talk about shopping there. a lot of the time people lament the demise of this shop, that pub, this cafe but never went there or only went there once or twice.

i can see however how they feel the new people coming to brixton will be less likely to buy off them. i sort of see that too. and it's sad. the market is so much better and cheaper than bloody sainsbury's local. and has far less plastic packaging. i hate the way sainsbury's local put every fruit or veg into as much plastic as they possible can. makes me cross.


----------



## el-ahrairah (May 21, 2013)

well, if incomers aren't buying off the stalls (even though they all claim to be ffs) then yes, the market will be dead soon enough and no coming back.  this is something i can't understand.  every fashionable new restaurant, every incomer, all claim that the market is the best thing in the world and they buy all their stuff there, but the market traders are seeing incomes drop and all the supermarkets are opening as many stalls as possible to cater for the incomers, who apparently only buy from the market.  why do they all say they do when they don't?  what's in it for them?  who are they trying to convince and why?


----------



## Frumious B. (May 21, 2013)

I think/hope the street market will just about survive if council tenants are not forced out of Brixton. But the demographic changes in the last few years have been immense. The 'black flight' was happening before Spacemakers came on the scene. The trader on the Beeb takes a long view - his mum has been running that stall for at least half a century.


----------



## TruXta (May 21, 2013)

It's not just about the BV/MR tho - as I've said before if you work elsewhere it's often difficult to get your bits and bobs at the market before it closes, and for those who don't drive doing a big shop there in the weekend isn't always the easiest either.


----------



## uk benzo (May 21, 2013)

I've often seen people coming out of the sainsburys local next to brixton tube station with two fully loaded bags of shopping during daytime hours. I just can't comprehend how they think that this is better than buying fresh produce at a cheaper price in the market. The mind boggles.


----------



## Rushy (May 21, 2013)

I think they need to evolve. Currently there are too many selling the exact same produce purchased from the exact same wholesalers. The offer is great in some respects but lacking in others - e.g. lettuce. I'll go into M&S sometimes to buy lettuce and end up buying the rest there for convenience. The produce is sometimes not the freshest too - I went to both my usual grocers to buy chillis the other day and although there were plenty they were fairly tired, so I left it. I could have got them elsewhere but just couldn't be arsed. Clearer pricing would be good too. Seems crazy not to given how cheap they are. And as TruXta said, there are lots of people working silly hours every day and when they come home Sainsburys / Tesco are the only options.

I enjoy shopping there but I can see why people don't get around to it. The stalls have to fit in with their customers - not vice versa.


----------



## MissL (May 21, 2013)

true enough about the tired produce. you have to pick your stall carefully. the guys opposite(ish) honest burger are pretty good for veg (although that's technically BV not the market i know).


----------



## Crispy (May 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> why do they all say they do when they don't?


Citation needed


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Citation needed


They're there to be found if you can be arsed to look them up. I can't, I'm afraid but it did take me ten seconds to find this one:








> We’ve tried to keep track of some of the recipes and ideas which make the best of the fresh ingredients we find cheaply on the market and want to share them and encourage people to see salads as easy meals in themselves.
> 
> Salad Club does not endorse bowls of limp, flavourless lettuce drowning in bottled supermarket dressing – we encourage inventive and colourful combinations like Rosie’s jerk salmon, spinach and goats’ cheese salad (served with Ellie’s homemade mango chutney) to Ellie’s minted pea, barley and rocket salad with lemon vinaigrette...
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

el-ahrairah said:


> well, if incomers aren't buying off the stalls (even though they all claim to be ffs) then yes, the market will be dead soon enough and no coming back. this is something i can't understand. every fashionable new restaurant, every incomer, all claim that the market is the best thing in the world and they buy all their stuff there, but the market traders are seeing incomes drop and all the supermarkets are opening as many stalls as possible to cater for the incomers, who apparently only buy from the market. why do they all say they do when they don't? what's in it for them? who are they trying to convince and why?


Why do they say it? Maybe because it makes them look like they are 'saving' Brixton's markets, just like Foxtons like to think they're 'improving' an area.


----------



## Frumious B. (May 21, 2013)

Anyone found a good source of spinach in the market? I can never find good stuff and end up getting it at T***o. Seems to me that the market traders have pretty much given up on things with a short shelf life. Or maybe the supermarket buyers get all the good quality stuff and Covent Garden only has leftovers.


----------



## Crispy (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> They're there to be found if you can be arsed to look them up. I can't, I'm afraid but it did take me ten seconds to find this one:


Well, that's the "Say they do" bit covered. How do you know they don't?

NOTE for public record: I shop in the market. But I also shop in Sainsbury's on top of the hill because a)It's closer to home and b)It's open after work hours.


----------



## Rushy (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> They're there to be found if you can be arsed to look them up. I can't, I'm afraid but it did take me ten seconds to find this one:


 
I don't understand. Are you suggesting that these ladies say they buy their produce at the market but in fact do not?


----------



## Belushi (May 21, 2013)

Is that the backgarden of the Albert?


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

Rushy said:


> I don't understand. Are you suggesting that these ladies say they buy their produce at the market but in fact do not?


I've no idea if they do or not. I was simply responding to Crispy's request of a citation.


----------



## Winot (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> They also said that the people now coming into Brixton are far less likely to buy anything off them, and that's putting their whole future in doubt.


 
Do they mean 

(a) there are the same number of people coming to Brixton as before, and fewer of them are buying from the established market, or

(b) there are more people than before coming to Brixton, and the additional people are less likely to buy from the established market than the established visitors?

My guess is that the new people who come to try the new restaurants are less likely to buy from the the established market than the established visitors.  But (a) would only pertain if the numbers of established visitors were dropping.  

FWIW, I suspect the 'established' market is in long-term decline for all sorts of reasons, but I'm sceptical that the new businesses are putting people off coming here.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 21, 2013)

Crispy said:


> NOTE for public record: I shop in the market. But I also shop in Sainsbury's on top of the hill because a)It's closer to home and b)It's open after work hours.


 
I think there's probably a lot of this. Not so much 'do people shop in the market or not' but are people shopping there less than they used to. I'd guess the number of people who buy all or the vast majority of their food from there is far, far lower than it used to be even among people who do shop there.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Well, that's the "Say they do" bit covered. How do you know they don't?


I was just giving an example like you asked, but it is something I've read and heard many, many times in recent years.

Perhaps all these new restaurants are indeed sourcing all their fresh ingredients from the street markets, but if that is the case, it would seem that some of the traders aren't noticing it.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

Winot said:


> My guess is that the new people who come to try the new restaurants are less likely to buy from the the established market than the established visitors. But (a) would only pertain if the numbers of established visitors were dropping.


That is what the trader said on the BBC yesterday and I imagine he'd know a bit more than most. It's also what I've heard too. He said people just walk by the stall now and never buy anything.

As for me, I've always bought from the market, but it's not hard to see how the shifting demographic (i.e. more of their traditional customers moving out/being priced out/evicted etc) may produce less trade for the street markets.


----------



## TruXta (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> I was just giving an example like you asked, but it is something I've read and heard many, many times in recent years.
> 
> Perhaps all these new restaurants are indeed sourcing al their fresh ingredients from the street markets, but if that is the case, it would seem that some of the traders aren't noticing it.


Could be that the majority of the restaurants only go with a small number of traders?


----------



## Crispy (May 21, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Could be that the majority of the restaurants only go with a small number of traders?


Or that the purchasing power of the restaurants is small compared to the (declining) mass of individual shoppers.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Could be that the majority of the restaurants only go with a small number of traders?


Anything's possible, but given the tightness of the market community, I'd imagine such arrangements would be common knowledge.


----------



## TruXta (May 21, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Or that the purchasing power of the restaurants is small compared to the (declining) mass of individual shoppers.


Possibly.


editor said:


> Anything's possible, but given the tightness of the market community, I'd imagine such arrangements would be common knowledge.


Possibly.

Right, I'm done for the day I think.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

I suppose ultimately it's about the value people put on the street markets. If they don't use them, they'll disappear like so many other street markets, but there may be a discussion to be had about pressuring new businesses to buy their ingredients off them (if they're not doing so already). 

I have no answers, but I do know that the day Brixton loses its amazing street markets will be a very, very sad day indeed.


----------



## trabuquera (May 21, 2013)

*ahem*

I think it's wrong to see this as fundamentally a newcomers vs 'real' old brixtonites problem TBH. It isn't the new influx which is CAUSING the old stallholders to wither away; rather that the old already was withering, for a complex variety of reasons, and that the rebranding and influx of 'outsiders' has only accelerated and aggravated pre-existing problems (or 'trends' if you want to be a bit less condemnatory) which are:

- street markets in general are in decline if they retail low-cost household goods and food only

- supermarket conglomerates in general are beating out competition, thanks to their outrageously abusive treatment of suppliers, the people who work for them, their links with local-authority planners, globalisation, blah blah blah

- many working people (ESPECIALLY WOMEN, to be all tiresomely feminist about it) struggle to fit market shopping around their working hours

- brixton demographics were changing well before the market's rebranding (i.e. retirees going to the Caribbean, strivers going further out to suburbia, yuppies bleeding in from Clapham borders), for reasons to do with property pricing -  and that has eaten into the customer base for the more traditional market stalls

But for me the crucial factor  - the elephant in the room, because it sets two dearly-held urban ideals (properly mixed community in SW9 + commitment to greener living) against each other - is this one:
*BECAUSE THE COUNCIL CLOSED THE FECKING MULTISTOREY CARPARK ffs!*

I can remember at the time this happened, the more eco-warrior types among us argued strongly that Brixton's already a traffic hellhole, gas is bad, etc etc etc - but surely, the only buyers who would or could keep the older style stalls in business are those who would buy in some bulk (i.e. a whole weekly shop for a large family, or supplying a catering business or whatever). A few yuppies buying the odd daily carrot would not keep them afloat anyway. So for their worthwhile customers - the ones who'd keep a stall in good, solid, repeat business of a respectable scale - the loss of the carpark facility was a death blow.

None of the above means I'm above sneering at a hipster or wanting to smack some of the more poncy and more recent invaders. but to blame the change on them and them alone is unfair, I think.


----------



## Winot (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> That is what the trader said on the BBC yesterday and I imagine he'd know a bit more than most. It's also what I've heard too. He said people just walk by the store now and never buy anything.
> 
> As for me, I've always bought from the market, but it's not hard to see how the shifting demographic (i.e. more of their traditional customers moving out/being priced out/evicted etc) may produce less trade for the street markets.



But those things (their traditional customers moving out/being priced out/evicted) aren't a direct result of the new businesses moving in. Rather, both are *symptoms* of broader demographic changes. 

I think there's some confusion of cause and effect going on here.


----------



## Crispy (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> I was just giving an example like you asked, but it is something I've read and heard many, many times in recent years.


So have I. But there is little more than assumption and generalisation in a claim that "they all say they do when they don't" as el_a said.

It's obvious that Brixton's changing demographic is changing the market. I just don't think there's much duplicity going on. Not much more than many of us would admit to anyway.


----------



## TruXta (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> I suppose ultimately it's about the value people put on the street markets. If they don't use them, they'll disappear like so many other street markets, but there may be a discussion to be had about pressuring new businesses to buy their ingredients off them (if they're not doing so already).
> 
> I have no answers, but I do know that the day Brixton loses its amazing street markets will be a very, very sad day indeed.


Surely it's a two-way thing. Much as I like Brixton Market, no one has a duty to buy things they don't want or don't need. As Rushy said above, if the customer base changes the onus is mainly on the traders to adapt to that.


----------



## Winot (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> I have no answers, but I do know that the day Brixton loses its amazing street markets will be a very, very sad day indeed.



The street market has grown in the last few years: Station Rd on a Saturday and Sunday.


----------



## quimcunx (May 21, 2013)

Station road is a separate, independent market.


----------



## pissflaps (May 21, 2013)

i like to think _some_ of those market stalls are closing because they sell substandard produce that you can get cheaper at the stall next door. Some of those stalls smell fucking rank too.

fuck em!


----------



## Winot (May 21, 2013)

quimcunx said:


> Station road is a separate, independent market.



Sure, but Ed was talking generally and so was I.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

Winot said:


> But those things (their traditional customers moving out/being priced out/evicted) aren't a direct result of the new businesses moving in. Rather, both are *symptoms* of broader demographic changes.


Two sides of the same coin. The development (and publicity) of Brixton Village helped raise the profile of Brixton as a 'nice' place to live, which in turn helped drive up property demand, which in turn put pressure on existing squats and co-ops and so on.

Sure, it was all going to come someday - we're just too close to central London to escape it forever - but there's no question in my mind that the Village played a notable role in the recent changes to Brixton, and those changes are having a knock on effect right across town, including the markets.


----------



## quimcunx (May 21, 2013)

Winot said:


> Sure, but Ed was talking generally and so was I.


 
fair enough.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

Winot said:


> The street market has grown in the last few years: Station Rd on a Saturday and Sunday.


I'm talking about the traditional markets on Electric Avenue.


----------



## Winot (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> Two sides of the same coin. The development (and publicity) of Brixton Village helped raise the profile of Brixton as a 'nice' place to live, which in turn helped drive up property demand, which in turn put pressure on existing squats and co-ops and so on.
> 
> Sure, it was all going to come someday - we're just too close to central London to escape it forever - but there's no question in my mind that the Village played a notable role in the recent changes to Brixton, and those changes are having a knock on effect right across town, including the markets.


 
Yes, I'd agree with that. I just don't think the new traders have done anything wrong.


----------



## Crispy (May 21, 2013)

From a purely town planning and streetscape point of view, the current use of Electric Avenue for market stalls is bonkers IMO. It's already got shops with stalls lining both sides of the road. The gap between the shops and the temporary stalls is too narrow on one side, and full of traders' detritus on the other. It could be much better organised. If I had a magic wand, I'd restrict standalone market stalls to the Western half of the road, with the traders backs to the dead facades of Boots and Iceland, allowing the shop units on the Eastern half (some of which are miniscule) to spill their stock out into a similar position. This would leave the center of the road for pedestrian access, with much more space to get around. Dare I say it would be more attractive?


----------



## fortyplus (May 21, 2013)

Not half as much as the supermarkets, and in particular people's changing work patterns have done. 

Markets all over the world are changing. Most of the stuff sold in street markets isn't food but cheap clothing and other tat, for a very simple reason - it's a lot less hassle/more profitable because it's less regulated and the products aren't perishable. Even village markets in rural France, you can see the same thing happening. People shop at the supermarkets for cheese and charcuterie. 
I guess twenty years ago most of the stalls on Electric Ave were fruit and veg. They've been very much in the minority for the best part of a decade - long before the Villaaage phenomenon.  Other street markets in London the same - I can remember going to Woolwich market in the early 1980s, fantastic arrays of fab fresh salad gear from Kent.  

We buy almost all our fresh fruit and veg  from the market  but it's not in massive volumes so we don't spend loads with them. The problem is range and quality; on price and convenience, the market wins hands down.  But too often, even when we have a good relationship with a trader, they don't have the stuff we need, or it's been in their lockup for two or three days and is past its best.  It's more reliable to deal with a New Covent Garden foodservice specialist greengrocer who will deliver. We haven't yet gone down that route, but it's one I'm seriously considering. 

I sometimes despair of the poor quality and range of produce in Brixton Market.  It's great for plantains, yams and Scotch Bonnets. It's very hard to find decent quality fresh seasonal British produce in Brixton at all; the place in Herne Hill is much better but pricey.  However I don't really blame the traders;  stock is perishable and has to shift on the day.  Plus, the plain fact is that people with money to spend have jobs to go to during the week. So if they want some fresh asparagus for a weekday supper, they'll pick it up from Sainsbury's on the way home from work. We don't expect the market trader to be open at seven pm, particularly if they've had to go to Borough or Spitalfields at six in the morning to buy their stock for the day.   

As Winot says there is a bit of a revival, particularly on Brixton Station Rd.  But Brixton's six-day-a-week market is built around an archaic notion of when customers can and can't do their shopping.


----------



## Rushy (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> I've no idea if they do or not. I was simply responding to Crispy's request of a citation.


I thought Crispy's request a citation was in relation to people saying they use the market and not doing so?

ETA - oh yes, I see he has confirmed that himself.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

Rushy said:


> I thought Crispy's request a citation was in relation to people saying they use the market and not doing so?


Not sure why you're aiming that at me because he asked el-ahrairah. I just helpfully provided some background.

Short of quizzing each restaurant owner, I'd imagine it'll be hard to know for sure who buys what from where, but I'd suggest that fortyplus's post gets to the heart of the matter.


----------



## Rushy (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> Not sure why you're aiming that at me because he asked el-ahrairah. I just helpfully provided some background.
> 
> Short of quizzing each restaurant owner, I'd imagine it'll be hard to know for sure who buys what from where, but I'd suggest that fortyplus's post gets to the heart of the matter.


In the context you appeared to be suggesting they were an example of traders claiming to use the market but not and therefore somehow an example of why the markets are struggling. I thought maybe you knew something we didn't. Obviously you were just telling us that they use the market - which I guess is a Good Thing, yes? All clear - I understand now.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

Rushy said:


> In the context you appeared to be suggesting they were an example of traders claiming to use the market but not and therefore somehow an example of why the markets are struggling.


I'm pretty sure that the OP makes it very clear as to who said what, and I started the thread to get people's opinions on the matter.

However, you seem to want to turn it into some sort of interrogation, so you know what? I'll leave you to it.


----------



## TruXta (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> I'd suggest that fortyplus's post gets to the heart of the matter.


 
So are you essentially answering your own OP with a no then? As in no, it's not BV and the new traders that is killing off street market, it's far bigger issues?


----------



## OvalhouseDB (May 21, 2013)

Poundland and the 99p Store must have quite an effect too - I see long queues of people in there buying groceries and market-stall type goods. I bought two enamel dishes labelled as 'rice plates' for £3.99 each from a longstanding trader in Granville Arcade a few weeks ago, but could have bought enamel plates in the 99p Store. I chose the rice plates because they looked nicer and I was being precious in my tastes for my camping gear - which probably isn't the business plan behind any market stall.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

OvalhouseDB said:


> Poundland and the 99p Store must have quite an effect too - I see long queues of people in there buying groceries and market-stall type goods. I bought two enamel dishes labelled as 'rice plates' for £3.99 each from a longstanding trader in Granville Arcade a few weeks ago, but could have bought enamel plates in the 99p Store. I chose the rice plates because they looked nicer and I was being precious in my tastes for my camping gear - which probably isn't the business plan behind any market stall.


I suspect it was the cheaper clothes stores that called off a lot of the original Station Road market a decade ago - that used to stretch nearly all the way up to Valentia Place. 


TruXta said:


> So are you essentially answering your own OP with a no then? As in no, it's not BV and the new traders that is killing off street market, it's far bigger issues?


I haven't reached any conclusion yet as I think it's quite a complex issue, with perhaps lots of smaller changes having a larger, knock on effect.


----------



## OvalhouseDB (May 21, 2013)

There's always Lidl's tempting selection of seasonal clothing - ski-ing gear, gardening outfits, wetsuits and vests made from suspiciously slinky synthetic jersey fabric. I have noticed that Lidl is not as cheap as it was since the pound has fallen against the Euro, but the options for cheap shopping have grown.

Though the market seemed to be in it's heyday when Tesco and then Kwiksave was on Pope's Rd.


----------



## TruXta (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> I haven't reached any conclusion yet as I think it's quite a complex issue, with perhaps lots of smaller changes having a larger, knock on effect.


 
That's kind of a conclusion right there tho - at least you're not anymore suggesting that it's all BV/MR.


----------



## editor (May 21, 2013)

TruXta said:


> That's kind of a conclusion right there tho - at least you're not anymore suggesting that it's all BV/MR.


If you read the first post properly, you'll see that I never did ("_T__hey also said that the people now coming into Brixton are far less likely to buy anything off them, and that's putting their whole future in doubt_. ").


----------



## leanderman (May 21, 2013)

Lots of interesting contributions. Thanks all


----------



## Rushy (May 21, 2013)

editor said:


> I'm pretty sure that the OP makes it very clear as to who said what, and I started the thread to get people's opinions on the matter.
> 
> However, you seem to want to turn it into some sort of interrogation, so you know what? I'll leave you to it.


No, no. Allow me to apologise. I thought you were publicly exposing a pair of strangers on a public forum for no good reason. Again. My mistake.


----------



## carters (May 21, 2013)

Frumious B. said:


> Anyone found a good source of spinach in the market? I can never find good stuff and end up getting it at T***o. Seems to me that the market traders have pretty much given up on things with a short shelf life. Or maybe the supermarket buyers get all the good quality stuff and Covent Garden only has leftovers.


 
Nour Cash & Carry usually has plenty of loose and bagged spinach.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

Rushy said:


> No, no. Allow me to apologise. I thought you were publicly exposing a pair of strangers on a public forum for no good reason. Again. My mistake.


I made no such accusation, as well you know. But just to repeat: I have not "accused" or "exposed" any individuals for _not_ buying vegetables from Brixton market.

And I really can't believe this argument has got so ridiculous that I've had to make a statement like that!


----------



## DJWrongspeed (May 22, 2013)

I buy from everywhere but certainly use the market alot more now. This is partly because I'm so fed up with the saturation of mini supermarkets e.g. Tescos. I miss the 2nd hand clothes and bric brac stalls from years ago.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

DJWrongspeed said:


> I buy from everywhere but certainly use the market alot more now. This is partly because I'm so fed up with the saturation of mini supermarkets e.g. Tescos. I miss the 2nd clothes and bric brac stalls from years ago.


I only wish more people shopped like you. It's almost hard to remember how big the Station Road market used to be - it even had its own cafe (Johns Cafe, now the ice rink shop).


----------



## Crispy (May 22, 2013)

There's several cafes on station road


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

Crispy said:


> There's several cafes on station road


I'm on about where the old Station Road market used to be, which is _past_ Pope's Road running along to Valentia Place. John's cafe was for the traders and their customers.







http://www.urban75.org/blog/lost-brixton-brixton-station-road-market-and-johns-cafe/


----------



## newbie (May 22, 2013)

fortyplus said:


> I sometimes despair of the poor quality and range of produce in Brixton Market. It's great for plantains, yams and Scotch Bonnets. It's very hard to find decent quality fresh seasonal British produce in Brixton at all;


I concur. I was in Ridley Road in Hackney last year sometime and was struck by how much better both range and quality were than either Brixton or East Street. Focussing on how cheap everything is compared to the supermarkets only covers part of the story, which is why I remain of the view that we, the punters, would be better served if the 'farmers' so called market mixed it with the rest rather than being ringfenced on their own.


----------



## Crispy (May 22, 2013)

Ah right, I getcha.

I have just noticed that Brixton Village is now included as a notable interior space on google maps, like train stations and major museums. Market Row + Reliance are not.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

Crispy said:


> I have just noticed that Brixton Village is now included as a notable interior space on google maps, like train stations and major museums. Market Row + Reliance are not.


It's been listed like that for quite a while. Those interior Google Maps are bloody clever.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

newbie said:


> .... which is why I remain of the view that we, the punters, would be better served if the 'farmers' so called market mixed it with the rest rather than being ringfenced on their own.


That seems like an interesting idea....


----------



## Winot (May 22, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Ah right, I getcha.
> 
> I have just noticed that Brixton Village is now included as a notable interior space on google maps, like train stations and major museums. Market Row + Reliance are not.
> 
> View attachment 32862


 
Has Lab G moved or is the map wrong?


----------



## TruXta (May 22, 2013)

The map is wrong - Kao Sarn is shown as being outside of BV entirely.


----------



## Winot (May 22, 2013)

newbie said:


> <snip> I remain of the view that we, the punters, would be better served if the 'farmers' so called market mixed it with the rest rather than being ringfenced on their own.


 
I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I predict that if it happened there would be protests about gentrifiers pushing out established businesses.


----------



## Winot (May 22, 2013)

TruXta said:


> The map is wrong - Kao Sarn is shown as being outside of BV entirely.


 
And Dagons now sell handbags.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

Winot said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I predict that if it happened there would be protests about gentrifiers pushing out established businesses.


Well, there would be valid questions to be asked about what would happen to displaced traditional traders, and rightly so.


----------



## TruXta (May 22, 2013)

Winot said:


> And Dagons now sell handbags.


Maybe they're made of shark-skin?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 22, 2013)

Winot said:


> I wouldn't have a problem with that, but I predict that if it happened there would be protests about gentrifiers pushing out established businesses.


 
I wouldn't think the stalls at the farmer's market would have much interest in coming more regularly anyway. They usually go to a few markets across the week don't they?


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> I wouldn't think the stalls at the farmer's market would have much interest in coming more regularly anyway. They usually go to a few markets across the week don't they?


Some drive a fair way to get here too, so I suspect they wouldn't warm to the idea of a permanent presence.


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

Question is, what would you do if you had a market stall?

Stand around and complain about gentrification? Or would you innovate?


Weather you like the people or not Brixton is thriving!! The fact it, there is a huge amount of business activity and passer by trade to be had down there. Demographics are constantly changing and have been since the being of time. Every business person should know this. Innovate or die.


----------



## Winot (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> Question is, what would you do if you had a market stool?
> 
> Stand around and complain about gentrification? Or would you innovate?


 
If I had a market stool I'd probably sit down and complain about gentrification.


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

ha!  edited


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> Question is, what would you do if you had a market stall?


Don't want one, thanks.

But seeing as you asked, I currently provide a free website for people to chat about Brixton issues, I co-run a free website listing and promoting local events and I also run free live music nights in Brixton, so if I was compelled to run a market stall, I guess I'd try to run something that benefited as much of the community as it could.

It probably wouldn't make any money though and would be swiftly taken over by a Champagne, Barbour and Rolls Royce franchise, or something.


----------



## uk benzo (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> Question is, what would you do if you had a market stall?
> 
> Stand around and complain about gentrification? Or would you innovate?
> 
> ...


 
I disagree with you. You say Brixton is thriving. The only financially thriving businesses that I can see are the big chains. So explain what innovative steps a market stall holder can do to compete with these corporate chains, without having to give up being an independent market stall holder.


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

Well, i think one of the key issues is the way in which people pay for goods these days. Cash is no longer king. I hate carrying cash around with me. IS there no way market traders / association could pool together to get some kind of system in place and accept card payments?


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> Well, i think one of the key issues is the way in which people pay for goods these days. Cash is no longer king. I hate carrying cash around with me. IS there no way market traders / association could pool together to accept card payments?


So you think that providing credit card payments would reverse their decline? How would that work, exactly?


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

Because people tend to not carry much cash on them these days. If they accepted card payments more people would head to the market and make impulse buys.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> Because people tend to not carry much cash on them these days. If they accepted card payments more people would head to the market and make impulse buys.


Do you often pay for £1's worth of spuds with a credit card then?


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

I make £3-4 and above purchases on a card regularly.

I think cards would encourage people to spend more


----------



## newbie (May 22, 2013)

editor said:


> That seems like an interesting idea....


I've said it before on FM threads, but I wasn't really thinking about a permanent presence, merely that their day should be in competition (proper market conditions) with the regular stallholders.

My point being that a fair amount of cash is kept til sunday for spending with the few quasi monopolies that brand themselves 'farmers'. Having decided to buy on sunday there's not then a lot of choice other than those few stalls.  So they get an almost guaranteed income and the main market suffers.

tbf that's changed a bit since the initial FM threads, as more traders are now open on sundays and more pitches are used on other days, particularly fridays and saturdays. 

The more general point remains, though, that the range, price and quality of fresh (local, British) produce on sale in the main market is not great when compared with other London street markets.  That's the game that needs upping.


----------



## Boudicca (May 22, 2013)

Admittedly quite some time ago, but when I had a shop in Granville, a lot of the fruit & veg stalls were owned by one very big wholesale importer.  Is this still true, I wonder?


----------



## Rushy (May 22, 2013)

What happened to the Brixton Market recipe book someone was going to put together to encourage Brixton Market shopping?


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> I make £3-4 and above purchases on a card regularly.


An awful lot of stall purchases are under £4, and it takes a lot more time to process a credit card than take the cash. 

Have to say I haven't reached this 'royalty' stage of never carrying any money at all yet.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

Rushy said:


> What happened to the Brixton Market recipe book someone was going to put together to encourage Brixton Market shopping?


It faltered and faded. I was more than willing to stick it on BrixtonBuzz.


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

editor said:


> Have to say I haven't reached this 'royalty' stage of never carrying any money at all yet.


 
If you genuinely want to discuss the future of Brixton market and how it can move forward, then you need to wipe that chip off your shoulder.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> If you genuinely want to discuss the future of Brixton market and how it can move forward, then you need to wipe that chip off your shoulder.


You've come up with this random notion that traditional market traders will suddenly start taking more money if they offer credit card facilities, based on your assumption that their target audience "tend to not carry much cash on them these days.'

Given that most fruit and veg sales are for very small amounts cash, could you now perhaps produce something to support these claims, and explain how adding credit card facilities will have any kind of meaningful and cost-effective impact for market traders?

I've no idea what this 'chip on my shoulder' stuff is about either.


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

It was one idea, I never mentioned "target audience" They are market traders, their target audience should be whoever is there and whoever is spending money! If people are not buying fruit and veg, then your selling the wrong product! There's no shortage of people, that's for sure!

Its not 1930, people visit markets to see whats on offer!

move with the times!  If i were a market trader i'd be jumping at this oppertunity provided by demographic change


----------



## DietCokeGirl (May 22, 2013)

Card fees are expensive though, depending on the card and the bank - hense why many places have a minimum spend. Even so, iirc Mastercard's 35%on transactions makes it a difficult option.


----------



## pissflaps (May 22, 2013)

until i can pay for skunk, hash, weed with my Visa Contactless, you can

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


----------



## cuppa tee (May 22, 2013)

This quote from the sales team at the soon come Oval Quarter [formerly Myatts North] http://www.higginshomes.co.uk/en-GB/developments/Oval Quarter/introduction maybe encapsulates the problem for the market in terms of the new demographic. 


> With the town centres at Camberwell, Brixton, Kennington, Elephant & Castle all close by, your weekly shop is more than covered.
> If you’re cooking something special, the weekly farmer’s market in the grounds of St Mark’s Church is a delightful local gem,
> while the earth-mother of London’s cosmopolitan street markets and arcades at Brixton is about as colourful an afternoon as you could spend.


 ie the reputed colourful, vibrant nature is played up like its a tourist destination to go and gawp at rather than somewhere to get your shopping...... certainly in this neck of the woods the changing demographic is mostly marked by people scuttling home from work with a ready meal and drink in a tesco's carrier and of course the vans delivering online shopping of an evening.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Card fees are expensive though, depending on the card and the bank - hense why many places have a minimum spend. Even so, iirc Mastercard's 35%on transactions makes it a difficult option.


Indeed. It's a daft idea for market traders who spend most of their day dealing with very small transactions, and sometimes having to deal with busy queues. Besides, loads of people still carry around enough cash to buy some apples and spuds in the market.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> This quote from the sales team at the soon come Oval Quarter [formerly Myatts North] http://www.higginshomes.co.uk/en-GB/developments/Oval Quarter/introduction maybe encapsulates the problem for the market in terms of the new demographic.
> 
> ie the reputed colourful, vibrant nature is played up like its a tourist destination to go and gawp at rather than somewhere to get your shopping...... certainly in this neck of the woods the changing demographic is mostly marked by people scuttling home from work with a ready meal and drink in a tesco's carrier and of course the vans delivering online shopping of an evening.


Oval Quarter.


----------



## Rushy (May 22, 2013)

I don't see why it is such a silly idea. It won't change anything by itself but as ffsear says, it's just one suggestion of many potential changes which together might help reform the market stalls. Micro billing is becoming more and more common, the transaction fees are getting cheaper and the new contactless technology currently being introduced is fast and specifically designed for payments _under_ £20. If the markets are going to rely on people buying just £1 of spuds that may well be part of their problem.

Not sure what is so royal about not relying on cash these days - this isn't the 50s.


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> This quote from the sales team at the soon come Oval Quarter [formerly Myatts North] http://www.higginshomes.co.uk/en-GB/developments/Oval Quarter/introduction maybe encapsulates the problem for the market in terms of the new demographic.
> 
> ie the reputed colourful, vibrant nature is played up like its a tourist destination to go and gawp at rather than somewhere to get your shopping...... certainly in this neck of the woods the changing demographic is mostly marked by people scuttling home from work with a ready meal and drink in a tesco's carrier and of course the vans delivering online shopping of an evening.


 

So why not try to tap into that market? Are we more concerned about the livelihood of market traders? Or our preconceived ideas and prejudices of what Brixton should be?

If its the latter then forgive me for misunderstanding the point of this thread


----------



## Winot (May 22, 2013)

editor said:


> I've no idea what this 'chip on my shoulder' stuff is about either.


 
It's a new contactless payment solution.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

Rushy said:


> I don't see why it is such a silly idea. It won't change anything by itself but as ffsear says, it's just one suggestion of many potential changes which together might help reform the market stalls.


What kind of increased profits do you think your average fruit and veg stall might make from investing in credit card facilities (after the commission and equipment costs are accounted for, of course)?


Rushy said:


> Not sure what is so royal about not relying on cash these days - this isn't the 50s.


So you don't carry any cash around with you at all. Not even when you're going shopping in a street market. _Really? _


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

Winot said:


> It's a new contactless payment solution.


I'm NFC. No Fucking Cash.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> So why not try to tap into that market? Are we more concerned about the livelihood of market traders? Or our preconceived ideas and prejudices of what Brixton should be?
> If its the latter then forgive me for misunderstanding the point of this thread


I'm concerned about the livelihood of market traders. Aren't you?


----------



## bosie (May 22, 2013)

Rushy said:


> I don't see why it is such a silly idea. It won't change anything by itself but as ffsear says, it's just one suggestion of many potential changes which together might help reform the market stalls. Micro billing is becoming more and more common, the transaction fees are getting cheaper and the new contactless technology currently being introduced is fast and specifically designed for payments _under_ £20. If the markets are going to rely on people buying just £1 of spuds that may well be part of their problem.
> 
> Not sure what is so royal about not relying on cash these days - this isn't the 50s.


 
The traders could take the Brixton Pound, by text, as another option. It's relatively straightforward and could be a bit of a USP that might get them noticed.



editor said:


> Indeed. It's a daft idea for market traders who spend most of their day dealing with very small transactions, and sometimes having to deal with busy queues. Besides, loads of people still carry around enough cash to buy some apples and spuds in the market.


 
Although it could be argued that if the traders are spending 'most of their day' dealing with transactions, including dealing with 'busy queues', that their business is not being killed off anyway.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

bosie said:


> Although it could be argued that if the traders are spending 'most of their day' dealing with transactions, including dealing with 'busy queues', that their business is not being killed off anyway.


I was careful to add the word 'sometimes', and those queues aren't always a sign of a flourishing business. They can just as easily be formed by a cost-conscious elderly person taking their time to individually select and analyse the potatoes they want to buy with their £1.20.


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

Card transactions take 30 seconds at most.


----------



## Dan U (May 22, 2013)

DietCokeGirl said:


> Card fees are expensive though, depending on the card and the bank - hense why many places have a minimum spend. Even so, iirc Mastercard's 35%on transactions makes it a difficult option.



Surely you have a decimal point missing here? 

Point is true though. There is a reason why lots of small shops have minimum spend limits on card transactions of a fiver or so. When your margins are skinny, dropping even a percentage point or two can make a real difference.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> Card transactions take 30 seconds at most.


Because they always go through first time, don't they?

Meanwhile, in the real world:


> *Cash transactions 24 times cheaper for retailers than card payments*
> _More people are paying for goods with cash than a year ago, according to new findings by the BRC._
> 
> Due to the high charges levied on retailers by banks - which the BRC described as "unjustifiable" - the average cost to a retailer processing a credit or charge card payment was almost 35p more than a cash payment. The findings also revealed that people are shopping more often but spending less each time.
> ...


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

editor said:


> Because they always go through first time, don't they?
> 
> :


 

Er... yea,  pretty much?


----------



## cuppa tee (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> Card transactions take 30 seconds at most.


Cash transactions take considerably less I would imagine


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

editor said:


> Because they always go through first time, don't they?
> 
> Meanwhile, in the real world:


 

All that tells us is a massive 42% of transactions of are card! Thats a hell of slice to be missing out on!!

That's actually bigger then I thought! And it will continue to grow as payment methods evolve.


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> Cash transactions take considerably less I would imagine


 
Does that include the queuing up at the cash machine? Its irrelevant anyway when people are carrying less cash for a fact.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> All that tells us is a massive 42% of transactions of are card! Thats a hell of slice to be missing out on!!


I really think you should read the post above and let it sink in a bit.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> Does that include the queuing up at the cash machine? Its irrelevant anyway when people are carrying less cash for a fact.


People are making *more* cash transactions. For a fact.


----------



## TruXta (May 22, 2013)

What a massive red herring the cash v card thing is anyway. It's the goods/services on offer plus their availability and the convenience (or lack thereof) that'll attract or deter shoppers.


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

SO?    Don't ignore the fact that cash is being used less and less! -  

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...-in-fewer-than-half-transactions-by-2015.html


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

TruXta said:


> What a massive red herring the cash v card thing is anyway. It's the goods/services on offer plus their availability and the convenience (or lack thereof) that'll attract or deter shoppers.


 
My point exactly!


----------



## TruXta (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> My point exactly!


Then why are you banging on about the supposed benefits of taking cards?


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> It was one idea, I never mentioned "target audience" They are market traders, their target audience should be whoever is there and whoever is spending money! If people are not buying fruit and veg, then your selling the wrong product! There's no shortage of people, that's for sure!
> 
> Its not 1930, people visit markets to see whats on offer!
> 
> move with the times! If i were a market trader i'd be jumping at this oppertunity provided by demographic change


 
As i said it was simply one idea that could improve sales.  It escalated!


----------



## TruXta (May 22, 2013)

So you agree that cards v cash is a red herring, but... you don't?


----------



## Winot (May 22, 2013)

Not quite relevant to the market, but I have to say that I have started using a debit card to buy my lunchtime sandwiches in Pret and it's a hell of a lot easier and quicker than using cash - no selecting and/or waiting for appropriate change and the transaction is finished well before the sandwiches have been bagged.


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

TruXta said:


> So you agree that cards v cash is a red herring, but... you don't?


 
yawn


----------



## TruXta (May 22, 2013)

Winot said:


> Not quite relevant to the market, but I have to say that I have started using a debit card to buy my lunchtime sandwiches in Pret and it's a hell of a lot easier and quicker than using cash - no selecting and/or waiting for appropriate change and the transaction is finished well before the sandwiches have been bagged.


I doubt a lot of the traders could afford the implementation costs tbh - hardware, POS devices, training, maintenance, chargebacks etc. Makes a lot of sense for the big boys but not much for smaller volume operators I'd reckon.


----------



## TruXta (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> yawn


Don't be a fool - it's far from obvious that the ROI would be worth it. Just because you think it's a good idea doesn't mean it is ya know.


----------



## cuppa tee (May 22, 2013)

Winot said:


> Not quite relevant to the market, but I have to say that I have started using a debit card to buy my lunchtime sandwiches in Pret and it's a hell of a lot easier and quicker than using cash - no selecting and/or waiting for appropriate change and the transaction is finished well before the sandwiches have been bagged.


I would argue part of the attraction of shopping in street markets is that it is not a "fast food" type of experience, by arguing against the more traditional aspects surely people are saying they prefer modernity for whatever reason and so they will take their money in whatever form elsewhere which will not be good for the market as we know it.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

Winot said:


> Not quite relevant to the market, but I have to say that I have started using a debit card to buy my lunchtime sandwiches in Pret and it's a hell of a lot easier and quicker than using cash - no selecting and/or waiting for appropriate change and the transaction is finished well before the sandwiches have been bagged.


Swishy contactless cards are even better for some retailers and environments, but cash still has its place, particularly for the not-so well off:


> Jonathan Welfare, chief executive of the anti-poverty charity Elizabeth Finn Care, said cash was still a key part of life for the 1.7 million who did not have a bank account. “If you don’t have a card it is increasingly difficult to make everyday payments. If you want to pay a utility bill or a fine you have to trek to the nearest Post Office, which thanks to the recent closures are now few and far between, meaning long journeys to do what would be a simple task if armed with a debit card.


----------



## fortyplus (May 22, 2013)

OK. Farmers' stalls during the week / Saturdays. Good idea, all street markets should be mainly farmers' markets, they shouldn't be stuck in some gentry-section.  Push out established traders? Of fruit and veg? There are hardly any left. Of hats, string vests and skimpy chinese cooking pots? Would we really complain about that?
Cash/card. A non-issue at the moment. Cards are still wholly unsuited to the market. But a few more cash machines nearby would help. The nearest one to the Granville is the really slow one in Nour, otherwise it's at Sainsbury's.  The wave-and-pay cards are a good idea but the terminal rental is still too high (so they're only in the big stores) and not enough people have them (the cards) yet.  Give it two years. 
The basic problem is timing.  An evening market open say from 4 to 8 on weekdays might be worth considering.


----------



## leanderman (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> Demographics are constantly changing and have been since the being of time. Every business person should know this. Innovate or die.



Creative destruction, capitalism's unique selling point. 

No fun if you are on the receiving end though.


----------



## Boudicca (May 22, 2013)

Someone could perhaps make a reasonable living doing Brixton Market Food Boxes which are delivered in the evening or picked up at Brixton tube.


----------



## Winot (May 22, 2013)

editor said:


> Swishy contactless cards are even better for some retailers and environments, but cash still has its place, particularly for the not-so well off:


 
Yes, I'm aware of that.  But there have been complaints upthread that nu-Brixton isn't shopping in the traditional market, so it's worth considering options that persuade them to do so, no?

FWIW I doubt that cash/card is the major issue, but as it's been raised and transaction time was mentioned I offer my experience as another bit of anecdotal data.


----------



## Rushy (May 22, 2013)

editor said:


> What kind of increased profits do you think your average fruit and veg stall might make from investing in credit card facilities (after the commission and equipment costs are accounted for, of course)?


 

If customers are deserting the market as you say, then the traders need to make both the environment and offering more user friendly, convenient and attractive.  As I said, I don't think that card payments would make much difference by themselves but it is worth considering as a package of measures such as opening hours, quality, variety, better looking stalls, etc.. The cost of a transaction might go up but if the volume of transactions and average spend increase then it is money well spent for the trader.

Given that the stalls are already much cheaper than the supermarkets for many items and are still losing customers it would suggest that bargain pricing is not key for the deserting customers - those people are prepared to pay more for convenience and quality (whether real or perceived). 



> So you don't carry any cash around with you at all. Not even when you're going shopping in a street market. _Really? _


Only in your mind does _"__what is so royal about not relying on cash these days?"_ get translated into _"I never carry cash. Not even when shopping in a market"_.


----------



## Frumious B. (May 22, 2013)

If I had the skilz I might build a price comparison app for the market versus Tesco. And a home delivery app, where a cyclist with a big trailer collects your orders from different shops in the market and delivers them after you get home from work.


----------



## TruXta (May 22, 2013)

It's kinda surprising no-one has done the delivery thing yet.


----------



## Rushy (May 22, 2013)

TruXta said:


> It's kinda surprising no-one has done the delivery thing yet.


Didn't Able & Cole start in Brixton?


----------



## Frumious B. (May 22, 2013)

There is a local bicycle trailer delivery service, I've seen their trailer on the road. I think it might be based at Cycooldelic, 231 Brixton Road. I've no idea what they deliver.

ETA: here it is http://www.transitiontownbrixton.org/2011/04/velocal-pedal-powered-delivery-service-gets-funding/  Seems they got their funding of £13,900 and started a service which nobody knows about.


----------



## TruXta (May 22, 2013)

No idea, Rushy.


----------



## Rushy (May 22, 2013)

TruXta said:


> No idea, Rushy.


Just checked - yes it did, in '93.


----------



## fortyplus (May 22, 2013)

Frumious B. said:


> There is a local bicycle trailer delivery service, I've seen their trailer on the road. I think it might be based at Cycooldelic, 231 Brixton Road. I've no idea what they deliver.


It's called Velocal. They got some funding for the e-trike thing which is, apparently, a pile of junk, the battery is too small. Mostly they deliver stuff using normal bikes/paniers. Not sure it's a viable business frankly.


----------



## Boudicca (May 22, 2013)

Frumious B. said:


> If I had the skilz I might build a price comparison app for the market versus Tesco. And a home delivery app, where a cyclist with a big trailer collects your orders from different shops in the market and delivers them after you get home from work.


I think the 'pick it up from the tube on your way home' might work better.  So you zap round the market in the morning, load a 'what's looking good today' page, orders in by 3 and pick it up on your way home anytime between 5:30 and 7:30.  A pricing comparison is reassuring, but its really about saving time.


----------



## shakespearegirl (May 22, 2013)

Boudicca said:


> I think the 'pick it up from the tube on your way home' might work better.  So you zap round the market in the morning, load a 'what's looking good today' page, orders in by 3 and pick it up on your way home anytime between 5:30 and 7:30.  A pricing comparison is reassuring, but its really about saving time.



I'd certainly use a service like that. I can't go to the market during the week if I'm working and get out of the habit on the weekends. 

I do think the traders have to adapt to changing tastes and working/shopping patterns or their businesses will fail.

 Know there are a lot of 'trendy cupcake' haters on urban, but these and other small businesses are succeeding by providing what people want to buy.


----------



## Frumious B. (May 22, 2013)

That would work brilliantly if there was one of those Collect+ parcel collection hubs near the tube. The closest one is by the barrier block. http://www.collectplus.co.uk/orders/new?from_postcode=sw21ld


----------



## Boudicca (May 22, 2013)

Frumious B. said:


> That would work brilliantly if there was one of those Collect+ parcel collection hubs near the tube. The closest one is by the barrier block. http://www.collectplus.co.uk/orders/new?from_postcode=sw21ld


Or we could just take over Starbucks...


----------



## Frumious B. (May 22, 2013)

How close does it need to be to the tube?  I happen to know of a local shop with some space, but it's 235 metres away, round a corner.


----------



## shakespearegirl (May 22, 2013)

Think it would need to be pretty close to the tube to build custom. 

Perhaps some of the restaurants could sell sort of ready meals, sometimes you just want quick and convenient food but better quality than a Tesco microwave affair could be a winner.


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

Frumious B. said:


> That would work brilliantly if there was one of those Collect+ parcel collection hubs near the tube. The closest one is by the barrier block. http://www.collectplus.co.uk/orders/new?from_postcode=sw21ld


They're not entirely reliable. When Eme tried to give them a package for delivery, she got a real 'WTF' look. She hasn't bothered trying to use the service again.


----------



## Frumious B. (May 22, 2013)

All the more reason to have a branch near the tube? Assuming the staff training is better than at your branch...


----------



## Rushy (May 22, 2013)

editor said:


> They're not entirely reliable. When Eme tried to give them a package for delivery, she got a real 'WTF' look. She hasn't bothered trying to use the service again.


I use the one up Acre Lane - in Costcutter I think. Never had a problem.


----------



## Frumious B. (May 22, 2013)

I've never used one. Are they a good idea? Much growth potential?


----------



## Boudicca (May 22, 2013)

Frumious B. said:


> How close does it need to be to the tube? I happen to know of a local shop with some space, but it's 235 metres away, round a corner.


 
Alas, I think it would need to be closer as otherwise people will still end up in the Sainsburys Local.


----------



## Rushy (May 22, 2013)

Frumious B. said:


> I've never used one. Are they a good idea? Much growth potential?


I think they're great. You pay online and print so just have to hand it over in shop and get a receipt. If you use ebay it prints all the details for you. Shops are usually open until 11pm so you can drop parcels off at any time. Fully tracked and only £3.99 up to 2kg. Max 10kg. I think there is also the option to have items posted to you delivered to your nearest Collect+ if there will be no one in to receive them.


----------



## tarannau (May 22, 2013)

Winot said:


> Not quite relevant to the market, but I have to say that I have started using a debit card to buy my lunchtime sandwiches in Pret and it's a hell of a lot easier and quicker than using cash - no selecting and/or waiting for appropriate change and the transaction is finished well before the sandwiches have been bagged.


 
I find this absolutely the opposite around my workplace (Vauxhall) fwiw. The local Pret is full of people who, after failing to carry any cash out with them, are strangely surprised into fumbling into their bag/wallet/cycling codpiece when the total is proffered.  Same with the cafe under work, when long queues build up behind waiting for the £4 acceptance of someone's jacket spud. Give me a quick pass of a note or even, hell forbid, something approaching the correct change anytime. Taking a little cash out generally shows a little more respect for those waiting behind you, not that the disorganised numpties lacking cash or the foresight to take out the card out of their pursey-walley thing in advance would credit that.

And nope, I don't believe accepting cards would revolutionise Brixton market's takings fwiw.


----------



## pissflaps (May 22, 2013)

'cycling codpiece'?! 

/throws money at screen


----------



## Ms T (May 22, 2013)

I





editor said:


> They're not entirely reliable. When Eme tried to give them a package for delivery, she got a real 'WTF' look. She hasn't bothered trying to use the service again.



I've used it a few times from that location without any problems.


----------



## Ms T (May 22, 2013)

There are several issues here for me. The better stalls I used to use, which stocked good quality seasonal produce, have gone as the owners retired. So now I use other local businesses such as Nour or A&C Continental (which stocks hard to find stuff like broccoli rabe and escarole), or I go to the farmer's market on a Sunday. The veg stall there does a roaring trade. You have to get there early to be guaranteed asparagus, for example. As others have said, the choice in the regular market isn't that good.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> Because people tend to not carry much cash on them these days. If they accepted card payments more people would head to the market and make impulse buys.


 
And you're basing this on...what exactly? Your own perceptions, or decent data?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 22, 2013)

editor said:


> An awful lot of stall purchases are under £4, and it takes a lot more time to process a credit card than take the cash.


 
Even if it didn't (and the latest incarnation that allows you to wave your card over a machine means it takes about the same time as fishing your notes out of your wallet), there's still the issue that traders have to pay a charge for card transactions, so while taking cash costs them nothing, taking cards would gnaw away at their margins, and fuck knows, margins on perishables aren't high, once you take stock depreciation into account.


----------



## Frumious B. (May 22, 2013)

Ms T said:


> There are several issues here for me. The better stalls I used to use, which stocked good quality seasonal produce, have gone as the owners retired. So now I use other local businesses such as Nour or A&C Continental (which stocks hard to find stuff like broccoli rabe and escarole), or I go to the farmer's market on a Sunday. The veg stall there does a roaring trade. You have to get there early to be guaranteed asparagus, for example. As others have said, the choice in the regular market isn't that good.


Too true, the selection of posh veg, e.g. cherry tomatoes on the vine, rocket, fine beans, is terrible, that's why I go to Tesco so much. I don't get up early enough for the farmer's market.


----------



## lang rabbie (May 22, 2013)

Ms T said:


> There are several issues here for me. The better stalls I used to use, which stocked good quality seasonal produce, have gone as the owners retired. So now I use other local businesses such as Nour or A&C Continental (which stocks hard to find stuff like broccoli rabe and escarole), or I go to the farmer's market on a Sunday. The veg stall there does a roaring trade. You have to get there early to be guaranteed asparagus, for example. As others have said, the choice in the regular market isn't that good.


 
Way back in 2004, after an unsuccesful search for "good enough" veg in the covered markets, I posted:
​


lang rabbie said:


> ​Q1 Any views on which stall might have the best range of fresh salad veg for a buffet to feed large numbers?​​Q2 Any experience of a stallholder/other local greengrocer willing to fulfil a special order for decadent "bourgeois" veg of the sort needed for Nigel Slater style recipes?​​[Retreats rapidly expecting rotten greens to be thrown at this attempt to gentrify the market]​


and Mrs M replied sensibly​

Mrs Magpie said:


> Well the stallholders tend to get what's left over after the supermarkets get their pick...I have often heard them moaning that supermarkets are affecting what the small shopkeeper or stallholder can get hold of wholesale.......


----------



## ffsear (May 22, 2013)

A survey done by visa,   was on bloomberg a few months ago,   trying to find a link


----------



## cuppa tee (May 22, 2013)

ffsear said:


> A survey done by visa, was on bloomberg a few months ago, trying to find a link


no disrespect intended, but you can hardly call Visa impartial [ or Bloomberg either for that matter]


----------



## editor (May 22, 2013)

I get very good food fruit and veg from the market.  But then I'm rarely after fancy stuff.


----------



## Kanda (May 23, 2013)

Went to Satay Bar last night, apparently they buy 40% of their produce locally.


----------



## newbie (May 23, 2013)

lang rabbie said:


> ​and Mrs M replied sensibly​​


 
If that's the case why is the fruit n veg at Berwick St or Ridley Road somewhat better quality than Brixton or East St? There are plenty of places in and around London town to buy non-woody carrots or a cabbage in the prime of life. Sadly this bit of South London doesn't have many of them.

tbhI don't believe the supermarkets are big factor at New Covent Garden at 4am buying veg which was picked yesterday and will be sold and eaten today. sfaik they mostly commission entire crops direct and ship from the farm straight to their chiller/packing/distribution center.

I haven't been there for years but I recall an early morning visit to NCG as a great, free, something-every-Londoner-should-do-at-least-once experience for the fantastic array of fruits, veg and flowers and for watching the canny, experienced buyers seeking out the best quality/price point for their customers.


----------



## fortyplus (May 23, 2013)

Most of the market traders seem to get their stuff from New Spitalfields market in Leyton, not from New Covent Garden, because Spitalfields has a better range of Afro-asian produce. Seems bloody miles to drive across London at sparrowfart when NCG is practically on our doorstep and has more better stuff that the new demographics of Brixton are likely to buy, but then what do I know about running a fruit-and-veg stall.


----------



## ffsear (May 23, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> no disrespect intended, but you can hardly call Visa impartial [ or Bloomberg either for that matter]


 
None taken.  But then do we even need a survey to figure it out!


----------



## Rushy (May 23, 2013)

ffsear said:


> None taken. But then do we even need a survey to figure it out!


 
Do you mean the Barclaycard survey which found that 61% of people prefer cards to cash for payments under £20?
Funnily enough Bank Machine (the company who supply cash machines) had a survey carried out which "proved" that contactless was not taking off and that people prefer cash.
It does seem that there is a lack of general awareness about how contactless works (fraud protection, etc..) but that once it has been explained to people it is liked. One of the advantages is that, unlike cash, if you lose a contactless card you don't lose your money. And you are protected against fraudulent use. I reckon it will catch on pretty quickly. That said, my new debit card was delivered yesterday and it is not contactless enabled so I won't be participating the the immediate future.


----------



## newbie (May 23, 2013)

fortyplus said:


> Most of the market traders seem to get their stuff from New Spitalfields market in Leyton, not from New Covent Garden, because Spitalfields has a better range of Afro-asian produce. Seems bloody miles to drive across London at sparrowfart when NCG is practically on our doorstep and has more better stuff that the new demographics of Brixton are likely to buy, but then what do I know about running a fruit-and-veg stall.


didn't know that and I've never been there.  The website says it's bigger and more exotic than NCG so maybe I should, the old Spitalfields before it moved was good fun. 

Found this fascinating chart http://www.wholesalefruitvegetableflowers.co.uk/images/seasonality_chart.pdf


----------



## editor (May 23, 2013)

Rushy said:


> It does seem that there is a lack of general awareness about how contactless works (fraud protection, etc..) but that once it has been explained to people it is liked. One of the advantages is that, unlike cash, if you lose a contactless card you don't lose your money. And you are protected against fraudulent use. I reckon it will catch on pretty quickly. That said, my new debit card was delivered yesterday and it is not contactless enabled so I won't be participating the the immediate future.


I've had a contactless card for years and I think I've used it wirelessly precisely twice.


----------



## Rushy (May 23, 2013)

editor said:


> I've had a contactless card for years and I think I've used it wirelessly precisely twice.


 
There will be a "Tipping point" soon, I'd wager, unless something even more convenient tied into you mobile phone quickly replaces it.


​


----------



## editor (May 23, 2013)

Rushy said:


> There will be a "Tipping point" soon, I'd wager, unless something even more convenient tied into you mobile phone quickly replaces it.
> ​


It's still a fair way off any kind of mainstream retail adoption, at least away from big city centres. There's already many phones with built in NFC and supporting technology that allow contactless transactions, but it'll be a long time before local shops offer it at standard. And, of course, a lot of people haven't got/can't afford/don't want contactless cards/phones.


----------



## Crispy (May 23, 2013)

It's like chip and pin. As people's cards get replaced, it'll become default. ANywhere you can currently use C&P will be contactless in 5-10 years.


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 23, 2013)

Crispy said:


> It's like chip and pin. As people's cards get replaced, it'll become default. ANywhere you can currently use C&P will be contactless in 5-10 years.


I've done the sound at a few conferences for Barclaycard, it will be a lot less than this. The whole contactless/phone payment thing is massive for them at the moment.


----------



## Rushy (May 23, 2013)

This about mobile phones always comes to mind regarding how quickly things suddenly change:


> For the first decade the predictions that mobile communications would not be mass market seemed correct. "In 1995, 10 years into the history of mobile phones, penetration in the UK was just 7%," according to Professor Nigel Linge, of the University of Salford's Computer Networking and Telecommunications Research Centre. "In 1998 it was about 25%, but by 1999 it was 46%, that was the 'tipping point'. In 1999 one mobile phone was sold in the UK every 4 seconds."​By 2004, there were more mobile phones in the UK than people – a penetration level of more than 100%.​


​


----------



## editor (May 23, 2013)

Crispy said:


> It's like chip and pin. As people's cards get replaced, it'll become default. ANywhere you can currently use C&P will be contactless in 5-10 years.


Oh, it's certainly coming, but like I said, it's still a fair way off mainstream adoption. 5-10 years is a VERY long time in tech.


----------



## editor (May 23, 2013)

Interesting piece here. Quite a few banks still aren't offering contactless cards as standard replacements, and some customers remain to be convinced....


> Some of Britain's banks have only issued contactless cards to a small proportion of customers and a survey published last week found many people are wary of the technology...
> 
> New research from price comparison site Gocompare.com claims that only 6% of Britons have so far made a contactless payment using a credit or debit card. This was based on a survey of more than 2,000 UK adults carried out in March. The study also found that large numbers of Britons are wary of new payment technologies, with one in four saying they find the idea of contactless payments "scary".


http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2013/may/04/contactless-payments-banks


----------



## beesonthewhatnow (May 23, 2013)

Of course, for small retailers they don't have to reply on a traditional bank supplied card machine anymore. There's a load of new companies offering payment services, such as Square and iZettle


----------



## Rushy (May 23, 2013)

editor said:


> Interesting piece here. Quite a few banks still aren't offering contactless cards as standard replacements, and some customers remain to be convinced....
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2013/may/04/contactless-payments-banks


 
But in today's news there has been a 46% increase in usage in just three months. That's huge.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/...tless-payments-grow-46pc-in-three-months.html


----------



## editor (May 23, 2013)

Rushy said:


> But in today's news there has been a 46% increase in usage in just three months. That's huge.


Well, yes and no. It's not quite so impressive if it's starting from a small base number, which it most likely is if it's only 5.3m transactions.

But the fact remains that at the moment, most people haven't got contactless cards and according to that article, most banks still aren't replacing them as standard, so it's got a fair way to go before the technology enjoys mainstream adoption.

Not quite sure why this conversation isn't taking place in the tech forum, btw.


----------



## fortyplus (May 23, 2013)

The other thing about the contactless cards is that you can't keep them in the same part of your wallet as your Oyster otherwise you'll get a Seek Assistance error as you try to go through the gate.


----------



## Dan U (May 23, 2013)

Marks & Spencer have rolled out contactless for purchases under £20.

not been a roaring success so far according to Moneybox on R4. 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22545804


----------



## Crispy (May 23, 2013)

fortyplus said:


> The other thing about the contactless cards is that you can't keep them in the same part of your wallet as your Oyster otherwise you'll get a Seek Assistance error as you try to go through the gate.


Keep them on different sides and put a sheet of foil between them? No idea if this works


----------



## Rushy (May 23, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Keep them on different sides and put a sheet of foil between them? No idea if this works


"This is Money" editor wrote this today:​

> my Barclaycard decided to start randomly paying for buses.
> 
> I first spotted this when I saw a series of bus fares on my statement, buses that I thought I had paid for using my Oyster card.
> 
> ...


----------



## editor (May 23, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Keep them on different sides and put a sheet of foil between them? No idea if this works


I doubt it.

Ever since I've hard my contactless card I can't confidently swish past the tube gates because it interferes with my Oyster card. Pisses me right off that I have to get my card out every time 

Oh, and only Barclaycards work as Oyster cards, and not Barclay debit cards. And I don't want a credit card, thanksverymuch.


----------



## editor (May 23, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Keep them on different sides and put a sheet of foil between them? No idea if this works


Oh dear! 

General question: shall I move all these posts to the tech forum so others can join in?


----------



## Greebo (May 23, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Keep them on different sides and put a sheet of foil between them? No idea if this works


The bloke on Moneybox reckoned you should completely wrap the card you didn't want debited in foil.


----------



## Winot (May 23, 2013)

editor said:


> Oh dear!
> 
> General question: shall I move all these posts to the tech forum so others can join in?



Good idea.


----------



## editor (May 23, 2013)

Anyone else object before I get the shovel out?


----------



## Rushy (May 23, 2013)

nope


----------



## ska invita (May 24, 2013)

newbie said:


> If that's the case why is the fruit n veg at Berwick St or Ridley Road somewhat better quality than Brixton or East St? There are plenty of places in and around London town to buy non-woody carrots or a cabbage in the prime of life. Sadly this bit of South London doesn't have many of them.


ive always presumed that its because traders in poorer areas buy the (nearly off) cheaper produce and try and make a better mark up (and sell a bit cheaper too). was thinking of starting a thread, where can you get good fruit and veg in south london that isnt within an inch of its life? - deserves its own thread though


----------



## newbie (May 24, 2013)

Berwick St supplies restaurants & cafes which may explain why their stuff is better and frequently cheaper than Brixton. That doesn't apply to  Dalston though, I don't think, surely that's still fundamentally a (gentrified) poor area like Brixton?  You can find bruises and wrinkled skins in all markets, but in some of them there's also the stuff that's a few days fresher.


----------



## editor (May 24, 2013)

The apples I get off the market are usually far nicer than the ones from the supermarket. And half the price too.


----------



## ash (May 24, 2013)

Well I witnessed the man from cornercopia buying fish from Dagoons today.  I also note that the village won the best private market award 2013 awarded by NABMA, at first glance I thought it was NAMBA which put me in mind of THAT south park episode


----------



## editor (May 24, 2013)

Would it be too wild an idea to suggest that maybe the restaurants should get together with the street market traders to see if they can also stock the more esoteric items they need, rather than them ordering it elsewhere? Perhaps as a council initiative to help protect the traders' future?


----------



## ffsear (May 24, 2013)

Or simply the market trades go round the restaurants and find out how my they are paying for XYZ and see if they can offer them a better deal.  I'd be amazed if no market trader has done this yet


----------



## Kanda (May 24, 2013)

ffsear said:


> I'd be amazed if no market trader has done this yet


 
I wouldn't be amazed if they haven't


----------



## ffsear (May 24, 2013)

.


----------



## Ms T (May 24, 2013)

I've been thinking about this and there are hardly any fruit and veg stalls left in the outdoor market. I really miss the elderly couple who used to be on the corner of Pope's Rd and Brixton Station Rd, who sold stuff like watercress and eggs as well as the usual. I once bought fancy mushrooms from a stall in Electric Avenue, sadly long gone.  I reckon many people like me are using Nour and the farmer's market for their veg needs.

Has anyone seen any asparagus btw?


----------



## cuppa tee (May 24, 2013)

Ms T said:


> Has anyone seen any asparagus btw?



Yes, £1.20 for a largish bundle on a market stall....... Very nice it was too


----------



## Ms T (May 24, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> Yes, £1.20 for a largish bundle on a market stall....... Very nice it was too


Scan you remember which one and was it British?


----------



## cuppa tee (May 24, 2013)

Ms T said:


> Can you remember which one


 
Yes, it was the veg stall just before the Electric Lane junction next the lady who sells fruit. 



> and was it British?



I'm assuming it was because IME he only goes large on asparagus when it's in season so I didn't ask.


----------



## fortyplus (May 24, 2013)

editor said:


> Would it be too wild an idea to suggest that maybe the restaurants should get together with the street market traders to see if they can also stock the more esoteric items they need, rather than them ordering it elsewhere? Perhaps as a council initiative to help protect the traders' future?


 
It's the sort of thing the Brixton Pound would like to be doing.

But it's difficult. Market trade is a cash business. Use a Covent Garden wholesale greengrocer specialising in the restaurant trade, you get fresh gear delivered to your place before you open (and long before the market stalls are up) and you pay monthly. You can phone your order through after you close, when you've done your stockcheck and depending on how your trade has been that night.  You can get pea shoots and baby leaves and other stuff that you just don't see (and wouldn't sell) in the market.  And the price? pass it on to the punter.


----------



## editor (Jun 3, 2013)

I thought this might be worth requoting seeing as it was in the now closed May 2013 thread:




Brixton Hatter said:


> Intereting bit in the latest Private Eye about London & Associated Properties (L.A.P.) who own (or used to own?) Granville Arcade/Brixton Village and Market Row. It's owner is Michael Heller, close mate of David Cameron, donator of £25,000 to the Tory party and recently knighted in the new year honours list. L.A.P. own another shopping centre down in Eastbourne which collapsed in December and still hasn't been properly repaired or reopened. Some of the tenants are still being charged rent!


----------



## leanderman (Jun 3, 2013)

editor said:


> I thought this might be worth requoting seeing as it was in the now closed May thread:



Bored one day, I checked out the Heller family. Seem to remember they live in a string of multi-million pound mansions in north London. They are philanthropic, with grants to Jewish care charities and the like.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 4, 2013)

editor said:


> I thought this might be worth requoting seeing as it was in the now closed May 2013 thread:


Cheers, I was gonna do that - it belongs in this thread really.

I guess it's easy to be philanthropic when you're stinking rich.


----------



## Frumious B. (Jun 4, 2013)

At least it shows some measure of community spirit. I wonder whether they approve of InShops' methods? One of the LAP directors comes to the market often - I'll try to set up a chat.


----------



## quimcunx (Jun 4, 2013)

Dan U said:


> Marks & Spencer have rolled out contactless for purchases under £20.
> 
> not been a roaring success so far according to Moneybox on R4.
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-22545804


 

I use it every time I shop in M&S (providing it's under £20, which it usually is). I love it.


----------



## blameless77 (Jul 18, 2013)

Posting here, because 'Brixton Village' routinely block or remove anything 'honest' posted on their facebook page, and frankly, it's gone far enough!

Is anyone else bothered by their habit of:
- only promoting the 'new' businesses
- routinely showing photographs that are not representative of all of the market users, or the general population (this is a particularly egregious example: 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			












Is someone paying them to present 'Brixton Village' as some kind of yuppie paradise, rather than portraying an honest view of 'Granville Arcade' with ALL it's users/shoppers/workers?


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2013)

blameless77 - you can upload images directly here using the 'upload file' buttom - your Dropbox files aren't showing.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jul 18, 2013)

blameless77 said:


> Posting here, because 'Brixton Village' routinely block or remove anything 'honest' posted on their facebook page, and frankly, it's gone far enough!
> 
> Is anyone else bothered by their habit of:
> - only promoting the 'new' businesses
> ...



Can you link to the Facebook page please


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 18, 2013)

https://www.facebook.com/brixvill?fref=ts


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2013)

I'm guessing this is the picture: 



An urban poster on that page comments: 


> dear God. Is this what Brixton has become


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jul 18, 2013)

blameless77 said:


> Posting here, because 'Brixton Village' routinely block or remove anything 'honest' posted on their facebook page, and frankly, it's gone far enough!
> 
> Is anyone else bothered by their habit of:
> - only promoting the 'new' businesses
> ...


 
This photo annoyed me.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 18, 2013)

blameless77 said:


> Is someone paying them to present 'Brixton Village' as some kind of yuppie paradise, rather than portraying an honest view of 'Granville Arcade' with ALL it's users/shoppers/workers?


 
Is a corporate Facebook page isn't it? They're not there to promote an honest picture of their business on the whole.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jul 18, 2013)

Snap!


----------



## leanderman (Jul 18, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> This photo annoyed me.
> View attachment 36912



It's pretty typical of Brixton Village specifically though isn't it?


----------



## Crispy (Jul 18, 2013)

leanderman said:


> It's pretty typical of Brixton Village specifically though isn't it?


Pretty much. Apart from the remaining hangers-on from the old Brixton Village.

Also: tucked in shirt, white socks and brown loafers is not a good look IMO.


----------



## blameless77 (Jul 18, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> This photo annoyed me.
> View attachment 36912


Yep - that's the very pic. Grrrrrrrrrr.


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 18, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> This photo annoyed me.
> View attachment 36912


 
people eating lunch annoys you?

why?


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 18, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> people eating lunch annoys you?
> 
> why?


i don't see any actual eating going on in that picture


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 18, 2013)

i'm hard pushed to see anyone in that picture who isn't dressed like a wanker


----------



## blameless77 (Jul 18, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> people eating lunch annoys you?
> 
> why?


 
Perhaps because I see Brixton as a multicultural area - People from many continents living and working side by side. This picture looks like it should have been taken in the home counties. You're being disingenuous if you just see it as 'people eating lunch'.


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 18, 2013)

what would you prefer?


----------



## stethoscope (Jul 18, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> This photo annoyed me.
> View attachment 36912


 
Looks like a scene from Notting Hill.


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 18, 2013)

oh i see! they're the 'wrong kind of people' - well i'm glad that's been cleared up.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 18, 2013)

blameless77 said:


> Perhaps because I see Brixton as a multicultural area - People from many continents living and working side by side. This picture looks like it should have been taken in the home counties. You're being disingenuous if you just see it as 'people eating lunch'.


do you think eg luton would have such a demographick in a photo?


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 18, 2013)

alright then - let's see everyone's 'multicultural' credentials.

i'm from africa. Your turn.


----------



## nagapie (Jul 18, 2013)

I don't like how they've used the trees in the background to make it look like some sort of European boulevard. That's trafficed, polluted Coldharbour Lane out there. Those sorts of people may be there at the weekends but it doesn't really realistically represent the environment.


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 18, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> alright then - let's see everyone's 'multicultural' credentials.
> 
> i'm from africa. Your turn.


if you're going to offer multicultural credentials, why not make them multicultural.


----------



## blameless77 (Jul 18, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> if you're going to offer multicultural credentials, why not make them multicultural.


 
Agreed - for example, I'm Irish


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 18, 2013)

blameless77 said:


> Agreed - for example, I'm Irish


and? which part of MULTIcultural have you got a problem with? you can't say eg i'm dutch and that proves i'm multicultural.


----------



## stethoscope (Jul 18, 2013)

It's the shift in class and wealth composition of areas such as Brixton (and before it Notting Hill - hence comment above) through gentrification which is the issue (and what does that to existing communities), not multiculturalism.


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 18, 2013)

you might want to potatochop that african lady out of your pic. she's really fucking with your narrative.


----------



## blameless77 (Jul 18, 2013)

Eh? Way to derail a conversation. My original point was that I'm annoyed by the fact that the Brixton Village facebook page is painting an unreal picture of Brixton Market, and failing to give equal weight to ALL the businesses that operate there. They then compound this by blocking commenters who remark on this. Meanwhile, traditional businesses such as Dagons struggle to operate in a market with limited parking, and a clientele who are increasingly coming just to eat, and see a fish shop or veg stall as just another photo op. 

However, I suspect I'm wasting my breath, just more troll-fodder.


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 18, 2013)

well that is indeed a separate issue, the blocking of commenters is highly suspect - that sort of behavior is never acceptable, regardless of your opinion. sorry for pissing on your parade. you can all get back to sniping at stranger's sock choice now.


----------



## T & P (Jul 18, 2013)

I'm surprised nobody has phwoared at the woman in the foreground yet. Political correctness gone mad if you ask me.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 18, 2013)

T & P said:


> I'm surprised nobody has phwoared at the woman in the foreground yet. Political correctness gone mad if you ask me.


PHWOAR. Also she's not dressed as a wanker. I'd totally do her, wearing her dress.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2013)

TruXta said:


> I'd totally do her, wearing her dress.


Would it fit you?


----------



## TruXta (Jul 18, 2013)

editor said:


> Would it fit you?


The size or the style? The latter - hell yeah. I'd look HOT in a dress like that.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2013)

TruXta said:


> The size or the style? The latter - hell yeah. I'd look HOT in a dress like that.


 
*steps away


----------



## Pickman's model (Jul 18, 2013)

TruXta said:


> The size or the style? The latter - hell yeah. I'd look HOT in a dress like that.


www.specsavers.co.uk


----------



## TruXta (Jul 18, 2013)

editor said:


> *steps away


Why, afraid of the trannies are we? 


Pickman's model said:


> www.specsavers.co.uk


Shush, freakazoid.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Why, afraid of the trannies are we?


Post up a picture and let me decide.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 18, 2013)

editor said:


> Post up a picture and let me decide.


http://cdn.stripersonline.com/1/1a/1ab109a6_tbash-3.jpeg


----------



## Winot (Jul 18, 2013)

nagapie said:


> I don't like how they've used the trees in the background to make it look like some sort of European boulevard. That's trafficed, polluted Coldharbour Lane out there. Those sorts of people may be there at the weekends but it doesn't really realistically represent the environment.


 
Eh?  Has it been photoshopped?


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 18, 2013)

God damned gentrifying trees! Someone should chop the fuckers down! Brixton isn't about trees, it's about realness!


----------



## nagapie (Jul 18, 2013)

Winot said:


> Eh? Has it been photoshopped?


 

I don't think so but that's not the only way to make a place look different to how it actually is. I believe some photographers have quite good skills that way.


----------



## Winot (Jul 18, 2013)

nagapie said:


> I don't think so but that's not the only way to make a place look different to how it actually is. I believe some photographers have quite good skills that way.



Well I guess people have to make up their minds whether the photo is:

(a) realistic (in which case they can complain about reality) or

(b) unrealistic (in which case they can complain about the photo).


----------



## nagapie (Jul 18, 2013)

Winot said:


> Well I guess people have to make up their minds whether the photo is:
> 
> (a) realistic (in which case they can complain about reality) or
> 
> (b) unrealistic (in which case they can complain about the photo).


 

I think there's a bit of both of those going on.


----------



## Winot (Jul 18, 2013)

nagapie said:


> I think there's a bit of both of those going on.



*head explodes*


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2013)

I think that picture accurately manages to capture the kind of scene you might expect to see in that part of the Village on a weekend.

Thankfully, there's still more to the place than jolly nice people chomping on jolly nice food, although those traditional stalls may be deemed too unphotogenic to the demographic they're trying to attract with their Facebook page.

I imagine it works both ways though as I'd have no interest in going to a place that looks like the one they've posted up.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 18, 2013)

Cornercopia (in the photo) is great. Local guy and his partner (she's in the photo). Much of the food is locally sourced - not just from stalls but local tiny scale producers.

Has no one noticed the elderly Afro Caribbean (probably?) shopper carrying full blue market bags slap bang in the middle of the shot?

Makes me think of the awareness test. "It's easy to miss something you're not looking for."


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Has no one noticed the elderly Afro Caribbean (probably?) shopper carrying full blue market bags slap bang in the middle of the shot?


What a strange comment. Yes, I have eyes. I noticed her immediately. I'd hazard a guess that she's probably the only one in that shot supporting the traditional market traders too.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 18, 2013)

editor said:


> What a strange comment. Yes, I have eyes. I noticed her immediately. I'd hazard a guess that she's probably the only one in that shot supporting the traditional market traders too.


It's really not very strange.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2013)

TruXta said:


> It's really not very strange.


 
Sure seems strange to me to assume that people are all unable to see a rather obvious part of a photo and then start posting up links to awareness tests, presumably to suggest that we're collectively having some sort of a problem seeing what's in the photo . Oh well.

Anyway, here's some pics I took of the Village recently.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 18, 2013)

TruXta said:


> It's really not very strange.


Thank you.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 18, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Thank you.


No worries. Ed's got that bee in his bonnet again.


----------



## editor (Jul 18, 2013)

TruXta said:


> No worries. Ed's got that bee in his bonnet again.


 
I think you might need to take that awareness test. 
Anyway, anyone got any comments or insights about the photos I just posted up?


----------



## TruXta (Jul 18, 2013)

editor said:


> I think you might need to take that awareness test.
> Anyway, anyone got any comments or insights about the photos I just posted up?


And I think you're missing the point again. anyway, we've done this to death.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 18, 2013)

nagapie said:


> I don't like how they've used the trees in the background to make it look like some sort of European boulevard. That's trafficed, polluted Coldharbour Lane out there. Those sorts of people may be there at the weekends but it doesn't really realistically represent the environment.



The picture in question could just have equally been of the beer gardens at the Duke of Edinburgh and Trinity Arms last night.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 18, 2013)

leanderman said:


> The picture in question could just have equally been of the beer gardens at the Duke of Edinburgh and Trinity Arms last night.


Or the Effra Social, Crown & Anchor, Grand Union *spits* etc.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jul 18, 2013)

editor said:


> I think you might need to take that awareness test.
> Anyway, anyone got any comments or insights about the photos I just posted up?


 
I still agree with your post from the start on the thread:


editor said:


> It's certainly brightened up what was a seriously ailing part of Granville Arcade (yes _Granville Arcade_ - not this rubbish 'Village' nonsense) , even if it bits of it are a bit art-hipster-wank.
> 
> Still, it's better to have something going on than empty spaces, and hopefully it'll kick start some life into the arcade.


 
But I hate what's happened to Market Row.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Jul 18, 2013)

blameless77 said:


> Posting here, because 'Brixton Village' routinely block or remove anything 'honest' posted on their facebook page, and frankly, it's gone far enough!
> 
> Is someone paying them to present 'Brixton Village' as some kind of yuppie paradise, rather than portraying an honest view of 'Granville Arcade' with ALL it's users/shoppers/workers?


 
It used to be a volunteer, now it's one of the traders who I shall not name but is certainly divisive and with own agenda.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 18, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> well that is indeed a separate issue, the blocking of commenters is highly suspect - that sort of behavior is never acceptable, regardless of your opinion. sorry for pissing on your parade. you can all get back to sniping at stranger's sock choice now.


 
Good. It is a bad sock choice. The wrong sock choice.


----------



## editor (Jul 19, 2013)

Here's a scene from Market Row today.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 19, 2013)

Nice and selective shooting there, ed.


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 19, 2013)

dick move.


----------



## Crispy (Jul 19, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Nice and selective shooting there, ed.


 
Still an impossible photo to take just 2 years ago.


----------



## editor (Jul 19, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Nice and selective shooting there, ed.


There was nothing 'selective' about it at all.

I was with Eme, and we'd stopped to talk to two urbanites who were having a coffee. I looked up and grabbed a single shot. That is the picture. That is what I saw.

I can even give you the name of the two urbanites if you'd like to check my story, and then you might like to apologise.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 19, 2013)

Crispy said:


> Still an impossible photo to take just 2 years ago.


Bollocks.


editor said:


> There was nothing 'selective' about it at all.
> 
> I was with Eme, and we'd stopped to talk to two urbanites who were having a coffee. I looked up and grabbed a single shot. That is the picture. That is what I saw.


Sorry, missed out a .


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> alright then - let's see everyone's 'multicultural' credentials.
> 
> i'm from africa. Your turn.


 
That's nice for you. Which part of that continent happens to be blessed with having you as a former citizen?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> if you're going to offer multicultural credentials, why not make them multicultural.


 
TBF, "Africa" is extremely multicultural.


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 19, 2013)

ViolentPanda said:


> That's nice for you. Which part of that continent happens to be blessed with having you as a former citizen?


 
fuck off.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 19, 2013)

editor said:


> I can even give you the name of the two urbanites if you'd like to check my story, and then you might like to apologise.


Apologise? What on earth for?

Jesus, man, get over yourself.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> fuck off.


 
Ah, Saffa or Rhodey, then, wanker?


----------



## Chilavert (Jul 19, 2013)

editor said:


> Here's a scene from Market Row today.
> 
> View attachment 36981


A very obvious Where's Wally?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> you might want to potatochop that african lady out of your pic. she's really fucking with your narrative.


 
"African lady".
Way to generalise someone's heritage, wanker!


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 19, 2013)

have you just come on to this thread to pick a fight and call me names? knock yourself out gramps, i can't be arsed tho. your existence serves merely as a warning to others.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2013)

editor said:


> Here's a scene from Market Row today.
> 
> View attachment 36981


 
Full-on beardage!


----------



## editor (Jul 19, 2013)

TruXta said:


> Apologise? What on earth for?


Be even better if you just buttoned it for a while, I reckon.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 19, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> have you just come on to this thread to pick a fight and call me names? knock yourself out gramps, i can't be arsed tho.


 
Don't flatter yourself.


----------



## TruXta (Jul 19, 2013)

editor said:


> Be even better if you just buttoned it for a while, I reckon.


I'll stop my gob up with a pint or three shortly, thanks for the suggestion.


----------



## Kanda (Jul 19, 2013)

Yeah, shut up Truxta, do as you're told


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 19, 2013)

as i said. fuck off. please.


----------



## editor (Jul 19, 2013)

There really are some silly hot heads on this thread. I'm going to close it for a bit and let people cool down.


----------



## teuchter (Jul 22, 2013)

editor said:


> Here's a scene from Market Row today.
> 
> View attachment 36981


 
Hopefully you asked for this chap's consent to having his photo taken and published.


----------



## editor (Jul 22, 2013)

teuchter said:


> Hopefully you asked for this chap's consent to having his photo taken and published.


Signed in triplicate and forwarded to all the necessary legal channels.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 23, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Is a corporate Facebook page isn't it? They're not there to promote an honest picture of their business on the whole.


 
Is it corporate FB page? I looked at the "about" bit and it does not say anything. Whether its corporate or not.

Anyone can set up a FB.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 23, 2013)

leanderman said:


> It's pretty typical of Brixton Village specifically though isn't it?


 
No.

I walk through there most mornings.

The Atlantic road side still has a lot of retail shops. Fish, veg , meat and general goods.

I looked at the FB page and it does not show that side of the market.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 23, 2013)

pissflaps said:


> people eating lunch annoys you?
> 
> why?


 
Because I sometimes get the same feeling there as I do when I am in the City. This is not somewhere I can really afford to eat in. So I feel out of place.


----------



## Ms T (Jul 23, 2013)

I was chatting to the lady who owns the clothes shop Saloon at the country show and she said she was struggling. It's all about the food there now. And not that much disposable income, probably because everyone's paying huge rents and have had their pay frozen.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 23, 2013)

Gramsci said:


> No.
> 
> I walk through there most mornings.
> 
> ...



I said Brixton Village specifically, not the wider market which you are right about.


----------



## pissflaps (Jul 23, 2013)

Gramsci said:


> Because I sometimes get the same feeling there as I do when I am in the City. This is not somewhere I can really afford to eat in. So I feel out of place.


 
Sorry you feel that way. Some of the restaurants are a bit hit and miss in the market, but they certainly have a lot more going for them and are far more accessible to the average punter than anything in the City.


----------



## fortyplus (Jul 23, 2013)

Much as I am attached to the Granville Arcade, it has to be said that it's a pretty impractical building. For half the year it's baltic with icy blasts funnelling along the avenues and as soon as the sun comes out the glass roof makes it impossibly hot.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2013)

fortyplus said:


> Much as I am attached to the Granville Arcade, it has to be said that it's a pretty impractical building. For half the year it's baltic with icy blasts funnelling along the avenues and as soon as the sun comes out the glass roof makes it impossibly hot.


 
I wouldn't be surprised if they shove some kind of doors on the place eventually and turn it into a nice indoor mall.


----------



## fortyplus (Jul 23, 2013)

editor said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if they shove some kind of doors on the place eventually and turn it into a nice indoor mall.


 
Would need listed building consent. 
I have spent many hours shivering in there trussed up in multilayered thermals wishing for just that.  Hard to imagine today.


----------



## Gramsci (Jul 24, 2013)

leanderman said:


> I said Brixton Village specifically, not the wider market which you are right about.


 
I did mean Brixton Village. The aisle nearest Atlantic road is what I meant. Still has butchers and fishmongers.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 24, 2013)

Gramsci said:


> I did mean Brixton Village. The aisle nearest Atlantic road is what I meant. Still has butchers and fishmongers.



Ok. But I think the picture is typical!


----------



## lauren campbell (Oct 17, 2013)

Boudicca said:


> Someone could perhaps make a reasonable living doing Brixton Market Food Boxes which are delivered in the evening or picked up at Brixton tube.


There is it's called City Pantry, they've just recently launched and they've got quite a few of the restaurants on board! 

http://www.citypantry.com


----------



## shakespearegirl (Oct 17, 2013)

lauren campbell said:


> There is it's called City Pantry, they've just recently launched and they've got quite a few of the restaurants on board!
> 
> http://www.citypantry.com



Bit spammy for a first post? And its not delivering boxes of fresh ingredients from market stall holders but meals from restaurants as far as I can tell


----------



## lauren campbell (Oct 17, 2013)

Sorry must have misunderstood. still thought it was pretty relevant though?


----------



## editor (Oct 17, 2013)

lauren campbell said:


> Sorry must have misunderstood. still thought it was pretty relevant though?


I think you might be better off posting up info in the Brixton Noticeboard forum. Cheers!


----------



## leanderman (Oct 17, 2013)

shakespearegirl said:


> Bit spammy for a first post? And its not delivering boxes of fresh ingredients from market stall holders but meals from restaurants as far as I can tell



This idea has been suggested a few times.

I'd ditch Tesco completely if the market delivered.

I guess it is too difficult to pull off though.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Oct 17, 2013)

I'd use the restaurant delivery and if you could put together a veg box from the market and get that delivered I'd use that too.


----------



## Boudicca (Oct 17, 2013)

lauren campbell said:


> Sorry must have misunderstood. still thought it was pretty relevant though?


The thread is about the the new restaurants killing off the street market.  So to post about a delivery service for those new restaurants is certainly relevant, but perhaps not quite in the way that you intended.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Oct 17, 2013)

lauren campbell said:


> Sorry must have misunderstood. still thought it was pretty relevant though?



You seem to need a secret code to sign up to the site


----------



## han (Oct 17, 2013)

Ms T said:
			
		

> reckon many people like me are using Nour and the farmer's market for their veg needs.
> 
> Has anyone seen any asparagus btw?



We get pretty much all our food from Nour, they've got everything. Only ever use supermarkets for wine and meat.


----------



## han (Oct 17, 2013)

And, I think supermarkets, and people working very long hours and thus being unable to get to the market before it closes, are the real culprits that are killing the market. 

If anything, Brixton Village and Market Row are bringing more people to the (already struggling) market. Not that I particularly like what's happened to them. But I don't think they're to blame.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Oct 17, 2013)

Ms T said:


> I reckon many people like me are using Nour and the farmer's market for their veg needs.



We use the shop on the corner of electric lane and electric avenue for a lot of our food shopping... basic selection of veg and e few more of the exotic bits, loadsa spices and tinned stuff. Chinese one next door for well, chinese bits... We get some of our stuff from wholefoods but the veg is a lot more expensive there and often not that fresh looking. They do good eggs tho


----------



## Thimble Queen (Oct 17, 2013)

han said:


> We get pretty much all our food from Nour, they've got everything. Only ever use supermarkets for wine and meat.



We rarely go to supermarket, apart from iceland for cat food. So we mostly get wine from market row wines now... £8.50 for a really nice bottle of red is pretty decent imo... When we have meat it often comes from Dombey's. Massive chicken for six quid does us for sunday lunch and monday and tuesday tea as well. We'd spend so much more if we bought it all from supermarket


----------



## han (Oct 17, 2013)

I've never been to Market Row Wines, or Dombeys. Must check them out. Where's Dombeys?


----------



## Crispy (Oct 17, 2013)

han said:


> I've never been to Market Row Wines, or Dombeys. Must check them out. Where's Dombeys?


Market row, just uphill from Nour, as it curves round.
Excellent sausages.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Oct 17, 2013)

han said:


> I've never been to Market Row Wines, or Dombeys. Must check them out. Where's Dombeys?



what crispy said... its not open on sunday tho so we go on a sat morn to get our chicken


----------



## leanderman (Oct 18, 2013)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> what crispy said... its not open on sunday tho so we go on a sat morn to get our chicken



It's all about the sausages


----------



## Thimble Queen (Oct 18, 2013)

leanderman said:


> It's all about the sausages



yeah the sausage is good too. Dont forget the giant chicken wings, a few quid for a carrier bag full. Great on a BBQ


----------



## TruXta (Oct 18, 2013)

I've never had their saussies. Must try them soon.


----------



## Ms T (Oct 18, 2013)

I want my chicken etc to be free range so mostly get it from the farmer's market. On Sunday I got two big packets of thighs and two partridges (which were great - try them!) for a tenner.


----------



## ffsear (Oct 18, 2013)

I hate carrying cash and visiting cash machines.  If there was a way for market traders to take card,  i would definitely use it more.


----------



## han (Oct 18, 2013)

Ms T said:
			
		

> I want my chicken etc to be free range so mostly get it from the farmer's market. On Sunday I got two big packets of thighs and two partridges (which were great - try them!) for a tenner.



Ooh. I bought a partridge once from the Thursday farmers' market by SOAS. It was lovely. Didn't realise they sell stuff like that at the Brixton one.


----------



## han (Oct 18, 2013)

Ack, maybe I shouldn't have said that. I'm probably going to be accused of being a gentrifier because I bought a partridge once.


----------



## Winot (Oct 18, 2013)

han said:


> Ack, maybe I shouldn't have said that. I'm probably going to be accused of being a gentrifier because I bought a partridge once.


 
Chicken!


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 18, 2013)

han said:


> Ack, maybe I shouldn't have said that. I'm probably going to be accused of being a gentrifier because I bought a partridge once.



If it was just the once you might get away with it, i think this is for the most part a pheasant Board. Partridge bought on a regular basis might make you fair game.


----------



## han (Oct 18, 2013)

I was expecting some fowl criticism but thankfully no-one seems bothered.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 18, 2013)

han said:


> I was expecting some fowl criticism but thankfully no-one seems bothered.


Cock.

(Fowl enough for you?)


----------



## Crispy (Oct 18, 2013)

There are only so many chicken puns unfortunately. Wattle we do next?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 18, 2013)

Crispy said:


> There are only so many chicken puns unfortunately. Wattle we do next?



Capon going?


----------



## han (Oct 18, 2013)

Oh, give it a breast.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 18, 2013)

han said:


> Ack, maybe I shouldn't have said that. I'm probably going to be accused of being a gentrifier because I bought a partridge once.


That might depend whether you carried it home in a plastic bag or whether you put it in a shopping trolley so you could pullet.....


----------



## Rushy (Oct 18, 2013)

han said:


> Oh, give it a breast.


That made me owl with laughter.


----------



## han (Oct 18, 2013)

cuppa tee said:
			
		

> That would depend if you carried it home in a plastic bag or if you put it in a shopping trolley so you could pullet



I put it in a shopping trolley. That gave me free range to admire the chicks hanging out at C&F.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 18, 2013)

Rushy said:


> That made me owl with laughter.


Careful......If you keep derailing a serious thread with terrible puns you may find yourself on a bantam-orrow


----------



## leanderman (Oct 18, 2013)

Is it ptarmigan for puns?


----------



## Ms T (Oct 18, 2013)

I wasn't sure how to cook my partridge - you just have to truss yourself and wing it.


----------



## han (Oct 18, 2013)

How did you coop?


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 18, 2013)

han said:


> I put it in a shopping trolley. That gave me free range to admire the chicks hanging out at C&F.



 It sounds like this whole partridge thing was just a roos-ter get you laid


----------



## Ms T (Oct 18, 2013)

han said:


> How did you coop?



I did quail slightly.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 18, 2013)

Sod this for lark. I'm off to the pub.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 18, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Sod this for lark. I'm off to the pub.



Time for another?
We have been egging each other on to post one chicken in a pun after another.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 18, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Sod this for lark. I'm off to the pub.



Does the pub stock The Famous Grouse perchance  ?


----------



## Rushy (Oct 18, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> Does the pub stock The Famous Grouse perchance  ?


My mate said it does. But I think he's a lyre.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 18, 2013)

Rushy said:


> My mate said it does. But I think he's a lyre.


 ......sounds like a good move tho', I think I'll pop out for a beak- er or two myself.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 18, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> ......sounds like a good move tho', I think I'll pop out for a beak- er or two myself.


Might see you later. I keep meaning to go home before last orders but always end up having one more feather road.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 18, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> ......sounds like a good move tho', I think I'll pop out for a beak- er or two myself.



Only if you are passerine by.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 18, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Only if you are passerine by.


Maybe I'll have time for a swift one.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 18, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Maybe I'll have time for a swift one.



Pint of woodpecker for me


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> Pint of woodpecker for me


oh good god no 

fucking 3.5% chemically sweet shit 

what's wrong with a decent cider like merrydown?


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 18, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> oh good god no
> 
> fucking 3.5% chemically sweet shit
> 
> what's wrong with a decent cider like merrydown?



[/bird jokes]


----------



## Pickman's model (Oct 18, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> [/bird jokes]


yeh a number of 'bird' jokes leapt unbidden to mind when you mentioned drinking woodpecker. but it's no laughing matter.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 18, 2013)

Pickman's model said:


> yeh a number of 'bird' jokes leapt unbidden to mind when you mentioned drinking woodpecker. but it's no laughing matter.



I haven't drunk it for years but a number of modern parents of my acquaintance tend to use it as training alcohol for teenage off spring, I think the theory is that such a massive volume has to be sunk to reach the  vomit threshold making overindulgence an unforgettable experience.


----------



## han (Oct 18, 2013)

I just hope no-one swans in expecting champagne. Seriously, they'd better duck to avoid injury


----------



## Rushy (Oct 18, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> Pint of woodpecker for me


How about a half? Last time you drank too much you jumped on the table and got your boobies out.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 18, 2013)

Rushy said:


> How about a half? Last time you drank too much you jumped on the table and got your boobies out.


Thanks for the reminder 
.....but iirc I had been puffin quite heavily before I even got to the pub.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 18, 2013)

I would have believed the bird pun thing would be dead as a dead parrot by now but no. I'm so gull able.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 18, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> Thanks for the reminder
> .....but iirc I had been puffin quite heavily before I even got to the pub.


Sorry.  I feel like a tit for even mentioning it.


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 19, 2013)

Frankly I don't give a flock.


----------



## colacubes (Oct 19, 2013)

Could you all stop being cocks ffs


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 19, 2013)

I'm not a pheasant plucker


----------



## classicdish (Oct 19, 2013)

shakespearegirl said:


> You seem to need a secret code to sign up to the site


You go to the "Login" page, then choose "New Account/Sign Up". No secret code needed AFAICS


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 19, 2013)

classicdish said:


> You go to the "Login" page, then choose "New Account/Sign Up". No secret code needed AFAICS



*City Pantry* ‏@citypantry17 Oct
Lunchtime! Eat from @thefoodjoint at home! Order in via https://citypantry.com/ Secret Code is 'tomatoman'. #Brixton #streetfood


----------



## classicdish (Oct 19, 2013)

My mistake


----------



## han (Oct 19, 2013)

colacubes said:
			
		

> Could you all stop being cocks ffs



Cheeky! That reminds me. I need to get some ointment for my thrush.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 19, 2013)

I'm going to bed now having over indulged prior to my birthday weekend. I shall host no guests nor entertain requests for my company. I have caught bird flu.


----------



## shakespearegirl (Oct 19, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> *City Pantry* ‏@citypantry17 Oct
> Lunchtime! Eat from @thefoodjoint at home! Order in via https://citypantry.com/ Secret Code is 'tomatoman'. #Brixton #streetfood



That secret code doesn't work for me. Seems pretty stupid to set up a delivery service that needs a secret code in order to access.


----------



## classicdish (Oct 20, 2013)

shakespearegirl said:


> That secret code doesn't work for me. Seems pretty stupid to set up a delivery service that needs a secret code in order to access.


They are probably changing it each day - best to contact the directly via twitter.

I am guessing that the secret code is to limit the numbers of new members so that they aren't swamped and fail to keep up with demand. Probably want to make sure they are up and running properly before opening it up fully. Again maybe you should just ask them via twitter.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 20, 2013)

Despite being positive about the changes in Brixton market, it was so crowded today that it was little fun. 

Still, it turned out that Focaccia, the remnant of the Bellantoni restaurant, does lovely sandwiches.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 20, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Despite being positive about the changes in Brixton market, it was so crowded today that it was little fun.
> 
> Still, it turned out that Focaccia, the remnant of the Bellantoni restaurant, does lovely sandwiches.



I noticed when i went out late afternoon that the main drag was especially busy, not in an irritating way, just very crowded.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 20, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I noticed when i went out late afternoon that the main drag was especially busy, not in an irritating way, just very crowded.



Was similarly heaving at the Crown & Anchor on Brixton rd and at Mango Landin' later. 

I'm too old for this.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 20, 2013)

leanderman said:


> I'm too old for this.



One is never too old until the moment we slip the surly bonds of Earth.


----------



## ash (Oct 20, 2013)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I noticed when i went out late afternoon that the main drag was especially busy, not in an irritating way, just very crowded.


The northern line is down so probably you experienced the  Clapham spill-over


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Oct 20, 2013)

ash said:


> the  Clapham spill-over



That sounds like a dirty euphemism.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 20, 2013)

I played at a bar in clapham earlier what a fucking vile place, There's yuppies pissing on walls and in doorways every 2 to 3 yards on the high street.


----------



## ash (Oct 20, 2013)

SarfLondoner said:


> I played at a bar in clapham earlier what a fucking vile place, There's yuppies pissing on walls and in doorways every 2 to 3 yards on the high street.


I agree its particularly vile at weekend nights!!


----------



## deadringer (Oct 20, 2013)

SarfLondoner said:


> I played at a bar in clapham earlier what a fucking vile place, There's yuppies pissing on walls and in doorways every 2 to 3 yards on the high street.



You can tell if someone is a yuppie just by walking past them as they piss?


----------



## shakespearegirl (Oct 20, 2013)

classicdish said:


> They are probably changing it each day - best to contact the directly via twitter.
> 
> I am guessing that the secret code is to limit the numbers of new members so that they aren't swamped and fail to keep up with demand. Probably want to make sure they are up and running properly before opening it up fully. Again maybe you should just ask them via twitter.



What if you don't use twatter? Don't take me wrong, it's a great idea and I would certainly use it, but their marketing is pretty poor


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 20, 2013)

deadringer said:


> You can tell if someone is a yuppie just by walking past them as they piss?


Surrounded by yuppie bars, Dressed like a yuppie, sounds like a yuppie "yah" ! and behaving like a yuppie. didnt notice any skinheads, Rasta's , chavs, football casuals.punks. hippies, men in boiler suits or even one leggged aliens. just yuppie's pissing outside yuppie bars in a yuppie area being laughed at(and filmed) by there yuppie mates.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 20, 2013)

SarfLondoner said:


> Surrounded by yuppie bars, Dressed like a yuppie, sounds like a yuppie "yah" ! and behaving like a yuppie. didnt notice any skinheads, Rasta's , chavs, football casuals.punks. hippies, men in boiler suits or even one leggged aliens. just yuppie's pissing outside yuppie bars in a yuppie area being laughed at(and filmed) by there yuppie mates.


Not sure what it's like very lately but Clapham was very much a "weekend destination" for a long while. Quite Essexy.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 20, 2013)

Inferno's(drink till you drop for £15) draws the Essexy type's but the rest of it is Yup central.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 20, 2013)

SarfLondoner said:


> Inferno's(drink till you drop for £15) draws the Essexy type's but the rest of it is Yup central.


Whitehouse used to. Revolution. Aqum.

Probably all in Brixton now!


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 20, 2013)

Passed the whitehouse recently and it has been shutdown/closed and looks like it's up for sale(more affordable housing no doubt) Aqum you are right about but also draws the yups as well! cant speak for revolution but all in all clarm is a vile pretentious dive.


----------



## classicdish (Oct 20, 2013)

shakespearegirl said:


> What if you don't use twatter? Don't take me wrong, it's a great idea and I would certainly use it, but their marketing is pretty poor


They have a contact us page on the website https://citypantry.com/contact-us to email or telephone them.


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2013)

There was a bunch of laaaads shouting and bellowing at the tops of their voices in the middle of Coldharbour Lane at about 3am last night in a manner that I would imagine would have been, shall we say, _frowned upon_, five years ago.


----------



## editor (Oct 20, 2013)

That City Pantry's website is odd. The images look like a computer, the Ich Dien emblem and snoring.


----------



## Thimble Queen (Oct 20, 2013)

editor said:


> There was a bunch of laaaads shouting and bellowing at the tops of their voices in the middle of Coldharbour Lane at about 3am last night in a manner that I would imagine would have been, shall we say, _frowned upon_, five years ago.



Earlier this year, I popped out to get some beers in the small hours. There were some LADS bellowing whilst watching a man who was severely hurt on the ground crying out in pain and distress. One of them commented 'that's what happens when a white man comes to brixton'. BTW they were also white


----------



## leanderman (Oct 20, 2013)

Noisy, callous and racist laaads/LADS


----------



## Thimble Queen (Oct 20, 2013)

SAD


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 21, 2013)

SarfLondoner said:


> I played at a bar in clapham earlier what a fucking vile place



Looks like it's all got too much for some people in one part of Clapham.......
http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...ment/EMROCornerWandsworthRdNorthStClapham.htm

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...t/DocumentsEMROWandsworthRdNorthStClapham.htm



> An EMRO has the effect of blanket banning the sale of alcohol beyond a specific time, over a geographic area so affects any and all venues currently operating or those wishing to operate in the future. It can operate at any time between the hours of midnight and 6am.
> 
> The council, in its capacity as licensing authority, may make an EMRO where it has identified crime and disorder issues in a specific area attributable to the supply of alcohol at two or more premises in that area and has sufficient evidence to demonstrate it is appropriate for the promotion of the licensing objectives, namely the prevention of crime and disorder; public safety; the prevention of public nuisance and the protection of children from harm.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 21, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> Looks like it's all got too much for some people in one part of Clapham.......
> http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...ment/EMROCornerWandsworthRdNorthStClapham.htm
> 
> http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...t/DocumentsEMROWandsworthRdNorthStClapham.htm


That'll be Artesian Well and Lost Society (previously cafe des artistes). I know some people who have moved away from there who said it became a nightmare after Artesian opened up.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 21, 2013)

Rushy said:


> That'll be Artesian Well and Lost Society (previously cafe des artistes). I know some people who have moved away from there who said it became a nightmare after Artesian opened up.


I used to live up there, Cafe des Artistes used to be quite a chilled place IIRC,  what happened ?


----------



## Rushy (Oct 21, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> I used to live up there, Cafe des Artistes used to be quite a chilled place IIRC,  what happened ?


Yeah it was. Lost Society also seemed quite chilled. I think the problem is Artesian. I went in there once and it was fucking horrible. Felt like everyone was gunning for a fight.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 21, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Yeah it was. Lost Society also seemed quite chilled. I think the problem is Artesian. I went in there once and it was fucking horrible. Felt like everyone was gunning for a fight.


what demographic is the "clientele" ?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 21, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> Looks like it's all got too much for some people in one part of Clapham.......
> http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...ment/EMROCornerWandsworthRdNorthStClapham.htm
> 
> http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/Services/...t/DocumentsEMROWandsworthRdNorthStClapham.htm


I suppose when you are paying nigh on million quid for a house in that vicinity they assume peace and quiet is part of the parcel.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 21, 2013)

SarfLondoner said:


> I suppose when you are paying nigh on million quid for a house in that vicinity they assume peace and quiet is part of the parcel.


That's a loaded statement but they are retired and were there before both venues.

(Artesian Well was a pub before).


----------



## Yelkcub (Oct 21, 2013)

SarfLondoner said:


> Passed the whitehouse recently and it has been shutdown/closed and looks like it's up for sale(more affordable housing no doubt) Aqum you are right about but also draws the yups as well! cant speak for revolution but all in all clarm is a vile pretentious dive.



Not surprised The Whitehouse is closed. Was dying in it's arse when they were trying to sell it as a nightclub.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 21, 2013)

This is how the punters at artesian well are described in one place.........


> Laid-back and outgoing Clapham and Battersea locals, early 20s to early 30s.


would i be wrong to assume they are largely what we'd call Yuppies


----------



## Ms T (Oct 21, 2013)

The Whitehouse has been closed for ages.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 21, 2013)

Rushy said:


> It's a pointless statement but they are retired and were there before both venues.
> 
> (Artesian Well was a pub before).


My comment wasn't aimed at you its a comment on new arrivals moving into an area full of late bars/clubs and then complaining about the noise and disruption caused.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 21, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> what demographic is the "clientele" ?


Young. Quite a mix. 


Yelkcub said:


> Not surprised The Whitehouse is closed. Was dying in it's arse when they were trying to sell it as a nightclub.


I saw John Hopkins play last time I was there. There were about 10 of us.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 21, 2013)

SarfLondoner said:


> My comment wasn't aimed at you its a comment on new arrivals moving into an area full of late bars/clubs and then complaining about the noise and disruption caused.


I know - but it's a typical (for Urban, not you) loaded and unsubstantiated dig at "privileged" folk complaining about noise.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 21, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> This is how the punters at artesian well are described in one place.........
> 
> would i be wrong to assume they are largely what we'd call Yuppies


I would say coked and pissed up 20 somethings letting off steam in an aggressive way.


----------



## Yelkcub (Oct 21, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Young. Quite a mix.
> 
> I saw John Hopkins play last time I was there. There were about 10 of us.



Just googled to find it closed at the start of June. It was the previous winter when they were trying to flog it as a going concern. My visit as a prospective buyer was short - 2 mins to decide it wouldn't work and out because it was shit to hang around in.


----------



## Winot (Oct 21, 2013)

Rushy said:


> I saw John Hopkins play last time I was there. There were about 10 of us.



As in Diamond Mine and Immunity? Really want to see him live.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 21, 2013)

SarfLondoner said:


> I would say coked and pissed up 20 somethings letting off steam in an aggressive way.


The Devils Dandruff


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 21, 2013)

Rushy said:


> I know - but it's a typical (for Urban, not you) loaded and unsubstantiated dig at "privileged" folk complaining about noise.


Fair point and noted.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 21, 2013)

Winot said:


> As in Diamond Mine and Immunity? Really want to see him live.


It was absolutely ages ago and haven't seen him since. But he's a firm live favourite amongst my mates.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Oct 21, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> The Devils Dandruff


Indeed !


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 21, 2013)

Yelkcub said:


> Just googled to find it closed at the start of June. It was the previous winter when they were trying to flog it as a going concern. My visit as a prospective buyer was short - 2 mins to decide it wouldn't work and out because it was shit to hang around in.



Owner's now in some Balearic Island with his family.


----------



## Rushy (Oct 21, 2013)

Yelkcub said:


> Just googled to find it closed at the start of June. It was the previous winter when they were trying to flog it as a going concern. My visit as a prospective buyer was short - 2 mins to decide it wouldn't work and out because it was shit to hang around in.


So did you buy anywhere?


----------



## Yelkcub (Oct 21, 2013)

snowy_again said:


> Owner's now in some Balearic Island with his family.


Lucky bleeder. Was just a general manager I met.


----------



## Yelkcub (Oct 21, 2013)

Rushy said:


> So did you buy anywhere?



Nope.


----------



## T & P (Oct 21, 2013)

The only times I've been to the Artesian Well have been for 'do's'... whether work Xmas parties, or someone I knew having a birthday party there. Indeed, IME they seem to be geared towards functions more than passing trade.

They also have the most horrendous 'art' on the windows looking out onto the street. Think wolves, full moons and the likes...


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 21, 2013)

Rushy said:


> That'll be Artesian Well and Lost Society (previously cafe des artistes). I know some people who have moved away from there who said it became a nightmare after Artesian opened up.


.......strangely Lambeth council have designated The Artesian Well as a local landmark as well as a cause of anti social behaviour.
http://landmark.lambeth.gov.uk/display_page.asp?section=latest&id=7020


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 21, 2013)

Yelkcub said:


> Lucky bleeder. Was just a general manager I met.


Gareth?


----------



## Yelkcub (Oct 21, 2013)

snowy_again said:


> Gareth?



Don't remember the name tbh. Mousey hair IIRC, flanked by a female promotions manager?


----------



## snowy_again (Oct 21, 2013)

Ah, no you'd remember Gareth if you met him!


----------



## Yelkcub (Oct 21, 2013)

snowy_again said:


> Ah, no you'd remember Gareth if you met him!



Dunno, it might have been the winter before last, so even longer ago.


----------



## oryx (Oct 22, 2013)

cuppa tee said:


> I used to live up there, Cafe des Artistes used to be quite a chilled place IIRC,  what happened ?


 
Used to live round there as well - I remember when the Tearooms was more or less a hippy café with reclaimed furniture & cheap veggie food long before that kind of thing became quite bog-standard. I used to go a lot in my 20s but didn't like the people running it TBH. It got clubbier and clubbier & more upmarket. Now it's an expensive cocktail bar.

The last time I drove by at night there was a humungous queue!

Artesian Well was a pub called the Nag's Head, decent Guinness & lock-ins back in the day, but it died on its feet......


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 22, 2013)

oryx said:


> Used to live round there as well - I remember when the Tearooms was more or less a hippy café with reclaimed furniture & cheap veggie food long before that kind of thing became quite bog-standard..........Artesian Well was a pub called the Nag's Head, decent Guinness & lock-ins back in the day, but it died on its feet......


It was the " Tearooms" when I was up there, I don't know when the name changed because I moved to Stockwell but next time I was aware of it was when Rob Da Bank was doing his Sunday Best there a few years later and it had become a Cafe, I went once to that because Weatherall was on. Wondering now if Rob da Bank was a cause or symptom of the change. There was a pub in the area called the Bread and Roses which I never went to but I liked the name, the Workers Beer company ran it. A while back I found the Bread and Roses again but in a different place, Clapham Manor Street, it is an oasis of non gentrified sanity in a desert of yuppie excess and flaunting and recommended to anyone in need of a quiet pint in the Clapham area.


----------



## aussw9 (Oct 22, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Was similarly heaving at the Crown & Anchor on Brixton rd and at Mango Landin' later.
> 
> I'm too old for this.



Yeah what was with this weekend? Last bit of warm weather drawing everyone out?


----------



## leanderman (Oct 25, 2013)

More filming in Brixton Market today. Fake fish stall set up near Rosie's cafe.


----------



## sparkybird (Oct 25, 2013)

T & P said:


> The only times I've been to the Artesian Well have been for 'do's'... whether work Xmas parties, or someone I knew having a birthday party there. Indeed, IME they seem to be geared towards functions more than passing trade.
> 
> They also have the most horrendous 'art' on the windows looking out onto the street. Think wolves, full moons and the likes...



Artesian Hell was what I renamed it. I lived in Clapham a long while back and used to go to the Tea Rooms when it was pretty laid back and cool*. Moved to Brixton for my sanity when the last pound shop on the High Street got turned into a Belgos, there was no where to go for a quiet drink, sit down and a packet of crisps and all the pubs became full of Hooray Henrys and Henriettas who drove me nuts.


SHIT - I might have to move again!!

* But not in a hipster way - they hadn't been invented then


----------



## gabi (Oct 28, 2013)

Waitin for my doc this morning, reading the local english language paper. Spotted this (bottom right)  didnt get time to read the story as i was summoned by Dr Robert (that is seriously his name). kinda hard to keep a straight face, that is until he sticks a fucking tube down your throat.


----------



## peterkro (Oct 28, 2013)

http://www.scmp.com/news/world/arti...hes-gentrification-sparks-fears-brixtons-soul


----------



## Cowley (Oct 28, 2013)

peterkro said:


> http://www.scmp.com/news/world/arti...hes-gentrification-sparks-fears-brixtons-soul


 
In some ways that article could have been written 20, 15, 10 or even 5 years ago, the same applied then to what it does now.

HPI is the issue here, though more often than not it is linked to Gentrification. This issue is not exclusive to Brixton, it's affecting pretty much every area in London. 

Saying that HPI is massively exaggerated in Brixton due to it's new found attraction I.E. Brixton Village Market and the introduction of Foxtons etc.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 28, 2013)

Far from convinced that house price inflation is higher here in Brixton. 

If anything prices have surged more in Clapham, Herne Hill and Balham etc. Peckham certainly has. Tooting is pretty much on a par apparently. 

Mate in E Dulwich boasted last week that his house/street has doubled in three years.


----------



## Cowley (Oct 28, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Far from convinced that house price inflation is higher here in Brixton.
> 
> If anything prices have surged more in Clapham, Herne Hill and Balham etc. Peckham certainly has. Tooting is pretty much on a par apparently.
> 
> Mate in E Dulwich boasted last week that his house/street has doubled in three years.


 
Most of those areas you have listed with the exception of Peckham have been expensive, exclusive "middle" class family areas for a good while now.  Brixton hasn't been...or not at least to the same scale as Balham, Clapham etc.

I agree that HPI probably isn't higher in Brixton per say, but it's a contributing factor to why many many folks are priced out the area now, more so now than before, though Brixton has never actually been as "cheap" as these articles make out.

HPI is to a degree determined on what street/what part of an area you live in. Where I use to live in Brixton, well the upper part of the Hill, you could quite comfortably buy a Family "Terraced House" for 500k say around 3 years ago, now that is what you pay for a 2 Bed flat, some even without gardens. It's all horses for courses, the prices are so variable and skewed that it makes it difficult to comprehend.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 28, 2013)

Cowley said:


> Most of those areas you have listed with the exception of Peckham have been expensive, exclusive "middle" class family areas for a good while now.  Brixton hasn't been...or not at least to the same scale as Balham, Clapham etc.
> 
> I agree that HPI probably isn't higher in Brixton per say, but it's a contributing factor to why many many folks are priced out the area now, more so now than before, though Brixton has never actually been as "cheap" as these articles make out.
> 
> HPI is to a degree determined on what street/what part of an area you live in. Where I use to live in Brixton, well the upper part of the Hill, you could quite comfortably buy a Family "Terraced House" for 500k say around 3 years ago, now that is what you pay for a 2 Bed flat, some even without gardens. It's all horses for courses, the prices are so variable and skewed that it makes it difficult to comprehend.




True. It's incomprehensible. And bad for just about everyone.

Surprised these purchases are going ahead without hitting big problems at the valuation stage.


----------



## Ms Ordinary (Oct 28, 2013)

peterkro said:


> http://www.scmp.com/news/world/arti...hes-gentrification-sparks-fears-brixtons-soul


 


> Barry Klieff, an estate agent has no fear that Brixton will lose its soul, saying he expected it would become like Camden, where tourists, multi-millionaires and pop stars co-exist.


----------



## Ol Nick (Oct 29, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Mate in E Dulwich boasted last week that his house/street has doubled in three years.


It's not that long ago that having a "mate" in East Dulwich got you banned from these boards.

East Dulwich! South Peckham...


----------



## leanderman (Oct 29, 2013)

Ol Nick said:


> It's not that long ago that having a "mate" in East Dulwich got you banned from these boards.
> 
> East Dulwich! South Peckham...



True. It's South Peckham.


----------



## ska invita (Oct 29, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Far from convinced that house price inflation is higher here in Brixton.


I think it is - i saw a graphic that showed the highest percentage house price increases in the last decade across London, brixton and parts of hackney had the highest in London - cant find it now though ... it was put together by an estate agent company and covered 2001-2011 if that helps someone else find it.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 30, 2013)

ska invita said:


> I think it is - i saw a graphic that showed the highest percentage house price increases in the last decade across London, brixton and parts of hackney had the highest in London - cant find it now though ... it was put together by an estate agent company and covered 2001-2011 if that helps someone else find it.



Trust me. It's mad(der) everywhere else. 

Having moved here in 2006 and subsequently, pointlessly, occasionally, checking the prices of many of the other places we looked at around London I can confirm that Brixton was our worst option financially!


----------



## Cowley (Oct 30, 2013)

leanderman said:


> True. It's incomprehensible. And bad for just about everyone.
> 
> Surprised these purchases are going ahead without hitting big problems at the valuation stage.


 
Yep.

I am sure they do, maybe not all of them but a fair chunk of them. I am surprised these purchasers don't do more homework/research before ploughing hundreds of thousands into properties that were worth 100K less around 6 months ago.  Mind you, a lot of first time buyers these days are financed by "Mummy & Daddy" and when I mean financed we're talking like 100K deposits.  Madness...

Edited to add: I agree It is bad for everyone involved, whilst it's nice to take a certain amount of comfort in the fact that my place is worth a lot more than I paid for it in 2006, I don't like the idea of having to plough thousands back into buying a new place if I was to move but stay in the same area. We're all losers in this situation.


----------



## leanderman (Oct 30, 2013)

Cowley said:


> Yep.
> Edited to add: I agree It is bad for everyone involved, whilst it's nice to take a certain amount of comfort in the fact that my place is worth a lot more than I paid for it in 2006, I don't like the idea of having to plough thousands back into buying a new place if I was to move but stay in the same area. We're all losers in this situation.



Exactly. And I think you would need many, many thousands. It's lucky I like my home, and Brixton, because this madness compels me to stay put.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 7, 2013)

Pretty sure the price of an Honest burger with chips has stealthily risen from £7.99 to £9.50.


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Pretty sure the price of an Honest burger with chips has stealthily risen from £7.99 to £9.50.


Really? Now that_ is_ steep.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 7, 2013)

editor said:


> Really? Now that_ is_ steep.



It's a less compelling lunchtime proposition. 

They presumably need to fatten margins before a private equity takeover - and a life on the golf course.


----------



## Winot (Nov 7, 2013)

leanderman said:


> Pretty sure the price of an Honest burger with chips has stealthily risen from £7.99 to £9.50.



"Unlike"

Have the specials risen commensurately do you know?


----------



## leanderman (Nov 7, 2013)

Winot said:


> "Unlike"
> 
> Have the specials risen commensurately do you know?



No, still £10. It was my mistake for ordering the Honest (£9.50) and not the beef which is £8. Idiot


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2013)

leanderman said:


> It's a less compelling lunchtime proposition.
> 
> They presumably need to fatten margins before a private equity takeover - and a life on the golf course.


Ten quid is a ridiculous price for a burger and chips in a place where you can't even sit down for long (if indeed you manage to get a seat).


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 7, 2013)

Is it? Pub burgers are normally around £7 and not as tasty, probably come from 3663 and never have that first bite thing you get with the honest burger with bacon & cheese. They've never rushed me to leave - it's the same situation as franco on a busy day - you know that you've probably waited to eat, and so have others so you don't take the piss. Hence their lack of puddings.


----------



## editor (Nov 7, 2013)

Pubs are warm and welcoming and you can sit there for hours without buying anything after you've eaten your food. 

I'm not sure that would go down too well when there's a 45 minute queue lining the arcade outside Honest Burgers. 

And yes, £10 is a lot for a burger. Least it is to me.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Pubs are warm and welcoming and you can sit there for hours without buying anything after you've eaten your food.
> 
> I'm not sure that would go down too well when there's a 45 minute queue lining the arcade outside Honest Burgers.
> 
> And yes, £10 is a lot for a burger. Least it is to me.



I was wrong. It's still £8. Much better value than any comparable chain


----------



## Rushy (Nov 8, 2013)

I had late lunch at Honest today. The "special" burger and chips cost same as a lovely but small kofte at Lounge. I sat there as long as I wanted and there was no pressure to move. I had the kofte, which I would class as a light meal compared to the burger and chips, and also bought a juice and a coffee which came to £16.50 including service. Service is not automatically added at Honest. I like both. The two places are a bit different but from some of the guff being spouted you'd think they were ideological opposites.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2013)

Rushy said:


> I sat there as long as I wanted and there was no pressure to move.


Maybe you're different to me, but if I'm sat somewhere and I've finished my food 10 minutes ago and there's a large queue of people all looking for a seat so they can sit down and enjoy their meal, I certainly would feel pressured to leave.

Or maybe you were lucky enough to be there when it wasn't busy, but the place clearly is very, very busy at some times of the day with huge queues - hence their queue status system.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2013)

leanderman said:


> I was wrong. It's still £8. Much better value than any comparable chain


There seems to be better value to be found in comparable places out of Brixton though.
http://www.timeout.com/london/food-and-drink/londons-best-burger-restaurants-1?pageNumber=2

Oh, and a 'Honest Burger' is £9.50. A Tribute is £10.


----------



## Rushy (Nov 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Maybe you're different to me, but if I'm sat somewhere and I've finished my food 10 minutes ago and there's a large queue of people all looking for a seat so they can sit down and enjoy their meal, I certainly would feel pressured to leave.
> 
> Or maybe you were lucky enough to be there when it wasn't busy, but the place clearly is very, very busy at some times of the day with huge queues - hence their queue status system.


I see what you did there with the selective quoting. Top marks! 

I'm not sure that it is a matter of luck. If I want to sit somewhere and chill / work / whatever I'll tend to choose to go when it is not likely to be busy, rather than visit when it is most likely to be rammed and then complain about not feeling comfortable lingering. So yes, as you suggest, maybe we are quite different.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2013)

Rushy said:


> I'm not sure that it is a matter of luck. If I want to sit somewhere and chill / work / whatever I'll tend to choose to go when it is not likely to be busy, rather than visit when it is most likely to be rammed and then complain about not feeling comfortable lingering. So yes, as you suggest, maybe we are quite different.


Not everyone has the luxury of being able to go for lunch at an hour when it suits them, but that still doesn't alter the fact that if there is a massive queue for food - and this place clearly has them so big it even has its own _queue management app!_  - then it would  seem remarkably rude to just continue sitting there long after you've finished your meal when there are so many people wanting a seat for their meal.

So, I imagine for_ most _people for _most _of the time, they certainly would feel pressured to leave fairly swiftly if they were at Honest Burgers - and that's an uncomfortable pressure they're unlikely to feel in a pub or a less trendy - and most likely cheaper - restaurant.


----------



## snowy_again (Nov 8, 2013)

You just really don't like honest burger do you? 

Have you not noticed the trend in non-bookable restaurants? A lot of that comes down to narrower menus with a limited range, an understanding that you're not there to loiter over 4 courses. 

Plus the added PR in terms of 'look how long our queue is, the food must be good'. Queue Management Apps let the punter know how long they've got, so they can go and grab a drink somewhere else, or go for a mooch - isn't that just customer service? 

As I and Rushy said, I've never felt pressured to leave. Perhaps you're different? 

Finally, pubs aren't restaurants and vice versa.  It's not a like for like comparison.


----------



## Belushi (Nov 8, 2013)

I like Honest Burger but no way would I queue for it.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2013)

snowy_again said:


> You just really don't like honest burger do you?


Nope, I've got nothing against them at all and the points I'm raising are more general ones, like: would I feel pressured to leave if I was sitting at an empty table 15 minutes after finishing my meal when there was a massive queue all looking for someone to eat their meal? Yep, I would.
Do I want to need to use a trendy special app just to know when I can eat my food? No, I don't.
Do I want to queue/wait for up to 45 minutes for lunch? No, I don't. 
But if that's your bag, then enjoy! Each to their own.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Nov 8, 2013)

Welcome to sit for hours...


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2013)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Welcome to sit for hours...


I don't think they even do food, do they?


----------



## Rushy (Nov 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Not everyone has the luxury of being able to go for lunch at an hour when it suits them, but that still doesn't alter the fact that if there is a massive queue for food - and this place clearly has them so big it even has its own _queue management app!_  - then it would  seem remarkably rude to just continue sitting there long after you've finished your meal when there are so many people wanting a seat for their meal.
> 
> So, I imagine for_ most _people, they certainly would feel pressured to leave fairly swiftly if they were at Honest Burgers - and that's an uncomfortable pressure they're unlikely to feel in a pub or a less trendy - and most likely cheaper - restaurant.



I'm struggling to feel concerned that £8.50 for burger and chips in a burger bar is too much because the general populace might at peak times feel uncomfortable not giving up their seats to waiting customers 15 minutes after finishing their meal. But if it really worries you to that extent, then fair enough.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2013)

Rushy said:


> I'm struggling to feel concerned that £8.50 for burger and chips in a burger bar is too much because the general populace might at peak times feel uncomfortable not giving up their seats to waiting customers 15 minutes after finishing their meal. But if it really worries you to that extent, then fair enough.


It doesn't worry me in the slightest. If you want to spend £8.50 - £10 in a trendy burger bar in a traditional working class market, that's just fine with me.


----------



## han (Nov 8, 2013)

God, this thread is funny!


----------



## Rushy (Nov 8, 2013)

editor said:


> It doesn't worry me in the slightest. If you want to spend £8.50 - £10 in a trendy burger bar in a traditional working class market, that's just fine with me.


Well thank you. And your preference for the authenticity of Brixton's Original Urban Retreat & Eaterie and its £8 veggie stack with fries has my blessing too.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2013)

Rushy said:


> Well thank you. And your preference for the authenticity of Brixton's Original Urban Retreat & Eaterie and its £8 veggie stack with fries has my blessing too.


What desperately off-topic ad hominem point-scoring are you attempting _now_?


----------



## uk benzo (Nov 8, 2013)

For £10, I could go to the Moroccan place on Brixton Station Road and get a lentil soup + chicken/lamb couscous + mint tea, whilst listening to the reggae CD seller guy opposite blasting out some tunes.


----------



## thatguyhex (Nov 8, 2013)

editor said:


> ...it would  seem remarkably rude to just continue sitting there long after you've finished your meal when there are so many people wanting a seat for their meal.
> 
> So, I imagine for_ most _people for _most _of the time, they certainly would feel pressured to leave fairly swiftly if they were at Honest Burgers - and that's an uncomfortable pressure they're unlikely to feel in a pub or a less trendy - and most likely cheaper - restaurant.


That's all in your mind mate. If you suddenly leave the moment that you've finished eating, you're only adding to the perception (your perception) that it's the "right" thing to do. 

Why should people have to be done eating faster because I'm queuing up? I wouldn't want to be expected to shovel food into my mouth and then leave, so I'm certainly not going to do that to others. All the times that I've been there with the other half, including during busy times, we've sat after eating for what seemed like a perfectly normal duration and then left - just like the other people around us appeared to be doing.


----------



## han (Nov 8, 2013)

Ooh that sounds good, uk benzo . What's the Moroccan place called?


----------



## Rushy (Nov 8, 2013)

editor said:


> What desperately off-topic ad hominem point-scoring are you attempting _now_?


It is probably stretching the definition a little to suggest that using mutually recognisable comparisons to allude to what I consider holes in your hyperbole quite equates to _ad hominem_.

If I deliberately misquoted you in a desperate and unprovoked attempt to insinuate a random negative personal trait - that would probably count. Such dirty, vile, underhand behaviour would be damning proof of my being thoroughly rotten to the core and deserving of a 24hr ban, and no mistake.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2013)

Rushy said:


> It is probably stretching the definition a little to suggest that using mutually recognisable comparisons to allude to what I consider holes in your hyperbole quite equates to _ad hominem_.
> 
> If I deliberately misquoted you in a desperate and unprovoked attempt to insinuate a random negative personal trait - that would probably count. Such dirty, vile, underhand behaviour would be damning proof of my being thoroughly rotten to the core and deserving of a 24hr ban, and no mistake.


Can you just stick to the topic please? Thanks.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2013)

thatguyhex said:


> That's all in your mind mate. If you suddenly leave the moment that you've finished eating....


I wasn't actually suggesting 'suddenly' exiting the 'moment' you've finished eating, but no matter.


----------



## thatguyhex (Nov 8, 2013)

editor said:


> I wasn't actually suggesting 'suddenly' exiting the 'moment' you've finished eating, but no matter.


OK, I accept that you weren't proposing literally shovel-pay-and-leave, but anything less than sitting around comfortably digesting for a while until you're quite ready and happy to go is suddenly in my book.


----------



## editor (Nov 8, 2013)

thatguyhex said:


> OK, I accept that you weren't proposing literally shovel-pay-and-leave, but anything less than sitting around comfortably digesting for a while until you're quite ready and happy to go is suddenly in my book.


Oh sure, I'd agree with that, but I hate the feeling of being somewhere where's there's people all hovering around looking for a table.


----------



## TruXta (Nov 8, 2013)

han said:


> Ooh that sounds good, uk benzo . What's the Moroccan place called?


It's the Roma Cafe I think. Just opposite San Marino if it's the one I'm thinking of. Lovely place, lovely staff, lovely food.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 8, 2013)

editor said:


> Oh sure, I'd agree with that, but I hate the feeling of being somewhere where's there's people all hovering around looking for a table.



Worse though might be to eat somewhere where no one wants to eat!


----------



## han (Nov 8, 2013)

TruXta said:
			
		

> It's the Roma Cafe I think. Just opposite San Marino if it's the one I'm thinking of. Lovely place, lovely staff, lovely food.



Great - must try that.


----------



## TruXta (Nov 8, 2013)

han said:


> Great - must try that.


Do! One of my favourite cafes in Brixton.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Nov 8, 2013)

editor said:


> I wasn't actually suggesting 'suddenly' exiting the 'moment' you've finished eating, but no matter.


They need a few of these in HB


----------



## ska invita (Nov 9, 2013)

"Foxtons, the garish and arrogant vehicle of gentrification. Slick suited and compassionless, the company sells a lie to customers and rides roughshod over communities.
A vermin, a symptom of a world where regeneration means gentrification. Communities are broken and culture blanded. Their violently branded and coloured cars leave a wake of white and magnolia paint behind them. The advance troops of homogeneity, safety and boredom.
Ladies and gentlemen, we are going on a hunt…
A FOXtons HUNT
Bring a trusty steed (a bicycle) and dress in your finest (tweed, jodhpurs, riding boots, crops, plumbs in your mouth). For today we ride, and we hunt.
Meet 2pm Saturday 16th November
Behind the pub on the park
London Fields
Hackney
Hunt rules will be handed out on the day of the hunt.
Make an effort with your costume
 Bring horns and hip flasks"

https://www.facebook.com/events/659881227366368/?ref=3&ref_newsfeed_story_type=regular


----------



## Thimble Queen (Nov 10, 2013)

Bought three packs of beef steak mince from the farmers market today. Man was doing a deal of three packs for a fiver, much cheaper and better quality than the super market equivalent


----------



## CH1 (Nov 10, 2013)

MrsDarlingsKiss said:


> Bought three packs of beef steak mince from the farmers market today. Man was doing a deal of three packs for a fiver, much cheaper and better quality than the super market equivalent


or the Beehive late at night.


----------



## Strangerdanger (Nov 15, 2013)

I had been observing this thread and didnt really intend to get involved - I have shopped at the market here and there for little bits, but I agreed with the poster who said it would be easier if they took card. Im terrible with cash! I find I stick to a budget better with my card, whereas with cash I just tend to...well, spend it faster. Anyway, today I had a proper nose around the market for the first time, and I finally get it. That market is BRILLIANT. I know you all know this, and I always agreed and thought it was pretty good, but somehow today when I took the time to really look through, I really began to appreciate it on a different level. 

Don't get me wrong, I love BV and MR as well, I think they provide so many options for affordable good food. I just hope that some sort of balance can be kept so the street market doesn't turn into an extension of the high street...


----------



## Boudicca (Nov 15, 2013)

Strangerdanger said:


> I had been observing this thread and didnt really intend to get involved - I have shopped at the market here and there for little bits, but I agreed with the poster who said it would be easier if they took card. Im terrible with cash! I find I stick to a budget better with my card, whereas with cash I just tend to...well, spend it faster. Anyway, today I had a proper nose around the market for the first time, and I finally get it. That market is BRILLIANT. I know you all know this, and I always agreed and thought it was pretty good, but somehow today when I took the time to really look through, I really began to appreciate it on a different level.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I love BV and MR as well, I think they provide so many options for affordable good food. I just hope that some sort of balance can be kept so the street market doesn't turn into an extension of the high street...


Did you find Noor?  Bit of a tardis place between MR and Electric Ave.  Both entrances are small so you could miss it.


----------



## leanderman (Nov 15, 2013)

Boudicca said:


> Did you find Noor?  Bit of a tardis place between MR and Electric Ave.  Both entrances are small so you could miss it.



Mrs LM loves Nour


----------



## Strangerdanger (Nov 15, 2013)

Boudicca said:


> Did you find Noor?  Bit of a tardis place between MR and Electric Ave.  Both entrances are small so you could miss it.



Yup! Found them too...but didn't have a nose around as I had to get dinner on. Will do tomorrow


----------



## T & P (Oct 9, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> .......strangely Lambeth council have designated The Artesian Well as a local landmark as well as a cause of anti social behaviour.
> http://landmark.lambeth.gov.uk/display_page.asp?section=latest&id=7020


Bumping this thread as The Artesian Well is no more! The place has been boarded up this week- though to be honest it might have been closed for longer. I just noticed the boards being put up this week.


----------



## sparkybird (Oct 9, 2014)

Ah the Artesian Hell.....


----------



## oryx (Oct 9, 2014)

T & P said:


> Bumping this thread as The Artesian Well is no more! The place has been boarded up this week- though to be honest it might have been closed for longer. I just noticed the boards being put up this week.



Blimey - I can remember it being refurbished and re-opening from being the Nag's Head! I used to live very near it. Only went in once (daytime) but it was quite an interesting-looking place, though I had no desire to go in at night.......


----------



## Rushy (Oct 9, 2014)

oryx said:


> Blimey - I can remember it being refurbished and re-opening from being the Nag's Head! I used to live very near it. Only went in once (daytime) but it was quite an interesting-looking place, though I had no desire to go in at night.......


I went in once at night. It was fairly exceptional in that it is rare that I dislike a venue so much.


----------



## cuppa tee (Oct 9, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I went in once at night. It was fairly exceptional in that it is rare that I dislike a venue so much.


From what you have told us you seem to be a man of eclectic taste, what was it about this joint that that got your back up ?


----------



## Rushy (Oct 9, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> From what you have told us you seem to be a man of eclectic taste, what was it about this joint that that got your back up ?


Testosterone on turbo, dull music, miserable staff, queues and aggressive bouncers.
Other than that it was ok.

ETA Oh - and jammed like sardines. Horrible.


----------



## editor (Oct 27, 2020)

It's gone all_ purdy_ with its lights


----------



## editor (Aug 1, 2022)

The (guffaw) 'new community space' that is Lost In Brixton now looks like an entrance to a club with bag searching, ID demanding bouncers, dress code on the door and early ejection of pets and anyone under drinking age at 5pm.

Farcical.









						FAQs | Lost in Brixton
					

Frequently asked questions - contacts, bookings, accessibility and special events.




					www.lostinbrixton.com


----------

