# Off The Cuff - OTC Bar and live venue - in Herne Hill



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

Hi All - I've just had an opportunity to read the conversations going on about the proposed launch of our new venture in Herne Hill and just wanted to take this opportunity to clarify and personalise what the concept of our new venture is and hopefully absolve some of the negative response that has been posted.

My name is Jennie. My business partner is Tony. We have spent the last 4 months building a bar/club/new venue that we truly hope will bring a new and exciting vibe to not just Herne Hill but all of South London. As long term members of the community, we saw a need for something special and unique and we looked long and hard to find the right place to build that pipe dream. 

What we found was the old timber yard next to the HH train station which had been unused for many years and - to us - looked like a diamond in the rough. We have built the place from absolute scratch and it has been a labour of love that involved many locals who are dear mates who donated their time and considerable skills to end up with something that we believe is a place that offers a fantastic venue for not just wine and cheese - in a non-poncy manner - but also a place to highlight local artists, musicians and general talent. We aren't a pub because we are not looking to take away business from The Florence or The Commercial (whom we spend plenty of time and money at ourselves!). We wanted to make something that people could enjoy and feel that they were a part of as we evolve.

We had our soft opening this weekend and I have never seen such a positive response to a place. So please, before you judge us, come and meet us. We've put our heart and soul into this place, regardless of the financial investment. The reason it will be operating on a club premises license is so that we can offer far later license, we don't have residential issues so don't feel we will be bothering anyone (which was proven this weekend) and so that there are benefits to buying into the ethos of what we are creating. We want to have a dynamic, unique and continually changing venue that everyone is excited to be a part of. We aren't showing football - that's what the other pubs are for. We are offering an experience, a personal one - one where you can enjoy all the interesting produce and very special wines we are taking pride in stocking. The cheese we are purveying is being sourced locally, as are artisan breads and local bands and artists. We want to add to and become a positive and lovely part of the community - thats what all this hard work we've put in was for. The club license is not to be exclusive in an arrogant way, it's so that you - as a customer - know that we are making sure the vibe and the clientele are all in sync with one another and that the council know that we are looking out for the people who want to come and join us on this wonderful adventure.

We will only be open Thurs-Mon until June but we pretty much live there at the moment. So please before you judge or make assumptions, come and meet us. See what we have to offer. Not one person has left us this weekend without a smile on their face and a sincere promise to come back because they know how passionate we are about what we are doing. 

We are Off The Cuff because we are dynamic, changing, and open to all your suggestions - but please come and see us to make an informed decision. And by the way -- I don't have a Porsche! My landlord does! My business partner has lived in HH for over a decade and loves it with all his heart, as do I. We are so thrilled with how we were received this weekend and we promise you that it will only become better and more interesting when you come and let us know what you think of all our hard work and the quality we are offering. We love Pullens, the Commerical and The Florence - we miss the Half Moon! But we are totally different...we are Off The Cuff and I think if you come and get to know us you'll understand why we've spent all our time, blood sweat and tears putting this place together for you all to enjoy as much as we do.

Jennie...@OCTBarSE24 / FB: OTC Bar - Off The Cuff


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## gabi (May 5, 2014)

Fair enough. You've probably put this in the wrong forum tho - there's one called Brixton Noticeboard for this kind of thing.

I think you're also supposed to offer freebies if you want to advertise on here.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 5, 2014)

You don't need to offer freebies now there's the noticeboard. This is in the wrong forum though. 

OTCbarSE24 - I'm sure you mean well but you understand that charging  hundred quid membership fee is excluding a huge chunk of the community at a stroke, right?


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## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

> The club license is not to be exclusive in an arrogant way, it's so that you - as a customer - know that we are making sure the vibe and the clientele are all in sync with one another and that the council know that we are looking out for the people who want to come and join us on this wonderful adventure.



You seemed quite nice until I read this bit.   Because it seems like a polite way of saying you want to restrict the clientele to your preconceived ideals.  Which of course is your prerogative - but is also, by anyone's definition, snobbery.   

And then to see that membership is £100???  That's not even cultural elitism.  There are lots of awfully nice, arty, middle class Herne Hill types who would fit in with the vibe and be in sync with the other clientele... But can't afford that.  Unless by "in sync" you mean "large disposable income".  

As it happens, I'm probably your target market - and having no kids and a decent job, I could afford your membership.  But I won't.  Firstly because I don't pick my friends based on their income level, and wouldn't join anywhere that they didn't feel equally welcome... And secondly because I'm pretty sure I wouldn't want to make new friends among people who have paid £100 to de facto guarantee they won't have to share their evening with anyone "non-U".   

I'm sure you'll find plenty of people who do think like that.  They probably send their children to the independent schools (or wish they could) and embrace the soaring house prices for the way they're doing to the whole area what you're choosing to do with your club: keeping out the "riff raff".  But I'd be ashamed if anyone I knew saw me going into a place that had such a naked agenda.


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## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> You seemed quite nice until I read this bit.   Because it seems like a polite way of saying you want to restrict the clientele to your preconceived ideals.  Which of course is your prerogative - but is also, by anyone's definition, snobbery.
> 
> And then to see that membership is £100???  That's not even cultural elitism.  There are lots of awfully nice, arty, middle class Herne Hill types who would fit in with the vibe and be in sync with the other clientele... But can't afford that.  Unless by "in sync" you mean "large disposable income".
> 
> ...


I'm sorry you feel that was as that was the exact opposite impression I was trying to make and it is a shame as you will miss out on one of the best most unique venues that has been created in a long while.  There is nothing pretentious or 'income based' about our membership - which doesn't begin until June as it is.  It is £10/month or £100/year - we're not  Shoreditch House, we're not trying to be - we are trying to operate a business under the licensing rules that a club premises requires.  Also, as a business owner having seen the venue across the street turn over hands at least 4 times in the last 7 years (Escape/Poet/216) it makes sense for us to try and protect everything we've put into the place by making sure our clientele buy into the ethos of what we are creating.  

As I said, I encourage you to come down and introduce yourself directly to us - you don't have to be a member, you won't have to be for a while and if we can't change your mind or further help you understand why we are using a club premises license to operate our business then fair play.  But, as I said, I've never seen such a wicked response to a venue as I did this weekend and i think if you're a resident of Herne Hill you will be really proud of what we're doing and we'd love to meet you.

Warmest regards, Jennie


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## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> You don't need to offer freebies now there's the noticeboard. This is in the wrong forum though.
> 
> OTCbarSE24 - I'm sure you mean well but you understand that charging  hundred quid membership fee is excluding a huge chunk of the community at a stroke, right?


Just to clarify - it's £10/month or £100/year - it has to do with the licensing we are operating under and ensuring that we are able to put on a much later affair and use our venue for more unique and interesting purposes.  We are not a pub and we plan on making the £10/month (or £100/year) membership worth it's while, including discounts on furniture, wine tastings, free venue hire - there are loads of benefits listed under our website at www.otcbar.co.uk.  We're not trying to exclude anyone, we're trying to operate a club license that requires us to have members and at what equates to £2/week, we don't feel we are pricing anyone out.

Come down  and have a chat with us! It will be worth your while, I promise.


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## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> You don't need to offer freebies now there's the noticeboard. This is in the wrong forum though.
> 
> OTCbarSE24 - I'm sure you mean well but you understand that charging  hundred quid membership fee is excluding a huge chunk of the community at a stroke, right?


Which forum should it be in?  Happy to repost!


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## editor (May 5, 2014)

*Thread moved to the Brixton forum as there's clearly a discussion to be had!


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## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> I'm sorry you feel that was as that was the exact opposite impression I was trying to make and it is a shame as you will miss out on one of the best most unique venues that has been created in a long while.  There is nothing pretentious or 'income based' about our membership - which doesn't begin until June as it is.  It is £10/month or £100/year - we're not  Shoreditch House, we're not trying to be - we are trying to operate a business under the licensing rules that a club premises requires.  Also, as a business owner having seen the venue across the street turn over hands at least 4 times in the last 7 years (Escape/Poet/216) it makes sense for us to try and protect everything we've put into the place by making sure our clientele buy into the ethos of what we are creating.


What is so special about this "ethos" that it requires customers to stump up £100/annum?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 5, 2014)

Also, what's your thinking behind mentioning security so often on your materials? You're in Herne Hill not downtown Caracas.


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## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> I'm sorry you feel that was as that was the exact opposite impression I was trying to make and it is a shame as you will miss out on one of the best most unique venues that has been created in a long while.  There is nothing pretentious or 'income based' about our membership - which doesn't begin until June as it is.  It is £10/month or £100/year - we're not  Shoreditch House, we're not trying to be - we are trying to operate a business under the licensing rules that a club premises requires.  Also, as a business owner having seen the venue across the street turn over hands at least 4 times in the last 7 years (Escape/Poet/216) it makes sense for us to try and protect everything we've put into the place by making sure our clientele buy into the ethos of what we are creating.
> 
> As I said, I encourage you to come down and introduce yourself directly to us - you don't have to be a member, you won't have to be for a while and if we can't change your mind or further help you understand why we are using a club premises license to operate our business then fair play.  But, as I said, I've never seen such a wicked response to a venue as I did this weekend and i think if you're a resident of Herne Hill you will be really proud of what we're doing and we'd love to meet you.
> 
> Warmest regards, Jennie


does licencing require that the membership is that high?  I can see that making it a members' club allows you to do various things in terms of your licence - rather like a working men's club or students' union...  but £10 a month or £100 a year is more than a nominal charge.  

Obviously - you have a right to create a business model however you choose, just as the local community have a right to hold an opinion on that.  If it has to be £10/100 because otherwise you think you can't cover your overheads...  that's one thing; if it has to be that high because that's the minimum thresshold set by licensing law, obviously that's another thing entirely. But you seem to be saying that it's *just* the private member thing that is important - not the price, and if so I'm wondering why it couldn't have been something like £5 a month and £25 a year...  

It's easy for me to say: I'm not the person taking a risk and setting up a business.  And I reiterate it is your absolute right to charge whatever you think. You have to tread that balance beam between affordability/popularity on the one hand, and the USP you seem to be aiming for, of a certain 'type' of clientele. Your opening was popular and you seem very positive so it probably doesn't mater a jot what I or anyone else thinks. But I do love herne hill and I know an awful lot of people who like to go there of an evening and who will be put off by the stall you are setting out with regards to the level of exclusivity you are selecting:  it may not be shoreditch house, but that's not the only level of selection-by-income possible, as you're clearly going to be demonstrating.


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## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

"we are making sure the vibe and the clientele are all in sync with one another"

gawd blimey...


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## SarfLondoner (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Just to clarify - it's £10/month or £100/year - it has to do with the licensing we are operating under and ensuring that we are able to put on a much later affair and use our venue for more unique and interesting purposes.  We are not a pub and we plan on making the £10/month (or £100/year) membership worth it's while, including discounts on furniture, wine tastings, free venue hire - there are loads of benefits listed under our website at www.otcbar.co.uk.  We're not trying to exclude anyone, we're trying to operate a club license that requires us to have members and at what equates to £2/week, we don't feel we are pricing anyone out.
> 
> Come down  and have a chat with us! It will be worth your while, I promise.


What time do you close on the weekends? And has lambeth stipulated that you must charge a certain amount to get in? What will be so unique about this venture as opposed to other similar bars?.


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## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> What will be so unique about this venture as opposed to other similar bars?.



"we are making sure the vibe and the clientele are all in sync with one another"


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## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> What is so special about this "ethos" that it requires customers to stump up £100/annum?


It has to do with operating under a club license that allows us to operate the venue without being restricted to a lot of licensing laws, particularly to do with regulated entertainment and live music and opening hours.  The emphasis on security is that we have to comply with the license that requires us to have door men at all times in order to operate beyond regular licensing hours.  At £10/month or £100/year we didn't feel that we were out pricing anyone in Herne Hill - I lived in Streatham for 6 years and then spent 2 years in Hoxton Square and was more than willing to pay £1200 a year to belong to Soho House but that's not what we are proposing - we are simply trying to co


SarfLondoner said:


> What time do you close on the weekends? And has lambeth stipulated that you must charge a certain amount to get in? What will be so unique about this venture as opposed to other similar bars?.


hey guys as I've said pop down meet us and decide for yourselves why we are offering something so different. I think I've explained all I can in this forum and I am more than happy to speak to you face to face because I know you'll see how special this place is. I can't do more than that  if you don't want to come down then that's fine too. But I think you'd be remiss to make a judgement without actually seeing us in action and seeing what a fabulous place we've built by hand. All the best - Jennie


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## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> It has to do with operating under a club license that allows us to operate the venue without being restricted to a lot of licensing laws, particularly to do with regulated entertainment and live music and opening hours.  The emphasis on security is that we have to comply with the license that requires us to have door men at all times in order to operate beyond regular licensing hours.  At £10/month or £100/year we didn't feel that we were out pricing anyone in Herne Hill - I lived in Streatham for 6 years and then spent 2 years in Hoxton Square and was more than willing to pay £1200 a year to belong to Soho House but that's not what we are proposing - we are simply trying to co
> 
> hey guys as I've said pop down meet us and decide for yourselves why we are offering something so different. I think I've explained all I can in this forum and I am more than happy to speak to you face to face because I know you'll see how special this place is. I can't do more than that  if you don't want to come down then that's fine too. But I think you'd be remiss to make a judgement without actually seeing us in action and seeing what a fabulous place we've built by hand. All the best - Jennie


All of our info and hours are available in our website at www.otcbar.co.uk


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## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

Also we will have 5 live bands and singers on Thursday as well as featuring in the Herne hill film festival on the 28th.


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## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> At £10/month or £100/year we didn't feel that we were out pricing anyone in Herne Hill - I lived in Streatham for 6 years and then spent 2 years in Hoxton Square and was more than willing to pay £1200 a year to belong to Soho House...


To be honest, I couldn't afford to pay £100 to be a member of _any_ bar, and I'm struggling to think of any good reason why I would consider such a hefty outlay. 

I suspect there'll be plenty of people in Herne Hill who think the same as me too.


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## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

I won't judge until I know the discounted drinks prices that offset the membership prices.


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## sleaterkinney (May 5, 2014)

I can understand the wine and cheese a bit, but what is with the furniture?, how is that part of the ethos?


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## prunus (May 5, 2014)

I'm probably also your potential clientele - I spend more than sensible amounts of money on wine, and indeed cheese, live in herne hill, interested in exhibitions, live music etc. 

But I am probably fatally put off by a membership fee - unless you can explain otherwise why it *has* to be that way (ie not eg a token £5 year, redeemable against drinks, if there's a legal requirement) - not coz I can't afford it, but because as someone above suggested I don't want to go to an 'exclusive' (as in excludes people) venue, especially in my own neighbourhood, where I'm probably friends with or have other relationships with the people you're excluding.

Please change my mind, and also explain why your ethos requires literal buying in, because I'd love to have a quality wine and cheese place on my doorstep (please send flames to P.O. Box 666 )


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## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> does licencing require that the membership is that high?  I can see that making it a members' club allows you to do various things in terms of your licence - rather like a working men's club or students' union...  but £10 a month or £100 a year is more than a nominal charge.
> 
> Obviously - you have a right to create a business model however you choose, just as the local community have a right to hold an opinion on that.  If it has to be £10/100 because otherwise you think you can't cover your overheads...  that's one thing; if it has to be that high because that's the minimum thresshold set by licensing law, obviously that's another thing entirely. But you seem to be saying that it's *just* the private member thing that is important - not the price, and if so I'm wondering why it couldn't have been something like £5 a month and £25 a year...
> 
> It's easy for me to say: I'm not the person taking a risk and setting up a business.  And I reiterate it is your absolute right to charge whatever you think. You have to tread that balance beam between affordability/popularity on the one hand, and the USP you seem to be aiming for, of a certain 'type' of clientele. Your opening was popular and you seem very positive so it probably doesn't mater a jot what I or anyone else thinks. But I do love herne hill and I know an awful lot of people who like to go there of an evening and who will be put off by the stall you are setting out with regards to the level of exclusivity you are selecting:  it may not be shoreditch house, but that's not the only level of selection-by-income possible, as you're clearly going to be demonstrating.


Honestly we have set our prices by how much it's cost us to put this place together. We don't feel it's an exorbitant pricing model and that's our pricing model. If you don't agree with it then that's absolutely your right not to be a part it. Otherwise during the month of may while the membership isn't required why don't you give us a go and then make a decision. We've lived in Herne hill a long time and love this place - we wouldn't do anything we felt would alienate the community. As I've said repeatedly come and meet us. Otherwise there's not much more I can say!!  just a person trying to start a business and make the square even more awesome than it is. Everything new creates controversy and we understand that. #otcbar


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## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> I can understand the wine and cheese a bit, but what is with the furniture?, how is that part of the ethos?


All of the furniture that is in our bar is also for sale. We are making a constantly dynamic and changing place. We've got some seriously cool pieces and my business partner is a magpie with a great eye!


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## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> We don't feel it's an exorbitant pricing model ...


I'm afraid that I think it is, so I won't be there, and I'd find it very hard to recommend to anyone, but good luck with it.


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## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> At £10/month or £100/year we didn't feel that we were out pricing anyone in Herne Hill ...


You know there's council housing in Herne Hill - or do those people not count as 'anyone'?

I know lots of people of different incomes living in HH.  Even of those lucky enough to have salaried jobs, lots of them have children, and childcare costs leave them with very little disposable income.  They might get to the end of the month and be able to go for a few drinks, and other months, might not. Others of them are in the arts: acting, music, writing...  generally labour-of-love type jobs where they subsist on low incomes because they love what they do. Others still just don't happen to have highly paid jobs. But perhaps all those people don't count as 'anyone in Herne Hill'.


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## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> I can understand the wine and cheese a bit, but what is with the furniture?, how is that part of the ethos?


tbf, i'm exactly the sort of person that would go out for a drink and come back with a bookshelf...  it's quite an appealing idea to me: i'm not mad keen on pubs, and this does sound like something more interesting.  But not if my mates don't feel equally welcome.  I'm not a twat.


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## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> does licencing require that the membership is that high?  I can see that making it a members' club allows you to do various things in terms of your licence - rather like a working men's club or students' union...  but £10 a month or £100 a year is more than a nominal charge.
> 
> Obviously - you have a right to create a business model however you choose, just as the local community have a right to hold an opinion on that.  If it has to be £10/100 because otherwise you think you can't cover your overheads...  that's one thing; if it has to be that high because that's the minimum thresshold set by licensing law, obviously that's another thing entirely. But you seem to be saying that it's *just* the private member thing that is important - not the price, and if so I'm wondering why it couldn't have been something like £5 a month and £25 a year...
> 
> It's easy for me to say: I'm not the person taking a risk and setting up a business.  And I reiterate it is your absolute right to charge whatever you think. You have to tread that balance beam between affordability/popularity on the one hand, and the USP you seem to be aiming for, of a certain 'type' of clientele. Your opening was popular and you seem very positive so it probably doesn't mater a jot what I or anyone else thinks. But I do love herne hill and I know an awful lot of people who like to go there of an evening and who will be put off by the stall you are setting out with regards to the level of exclusivity you are selecting:  it may not be shoreditch house, but that's not the only level of selection-by-income possible, as you're clearly going to be demonstrating.


I just want to add that it will be open to the public at all times except Friday and Saturday nights after 7. There are a host of benefits that are listed on the site as to why the charge is there and the benefits. I think it would be awesome to have anyone come and chat with us over the next month and really understand what we are putting together. That's the best I can do! Jennie


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## editor (May 5, 2014)

How does it work when "local bands and artists" play your venue on the weekend? Can anyone go and see them, or is it members only?


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## sleaterkinney (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> All of the furniture that is in our bar is also for sale. We are making a constantly dynamic and changing place. We've got some seriously cool pieces and my business partner is a magpie with a great eye!


Not exorbitant 'upcycled' bits and pieces?.


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## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

So it is members ONLY from June? If someone turns up they have to become a member or can't come in for a drink?


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## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

prunus said:


> I'm probably also your potential clientele - I spend more than sensible amounts of money on wine, and indeed cheese, live in herne hill, interested in exhibitions, live music etc.
> 
> But I am probably fatally put off by a membership fee - unless you can explain otherwise why it *has* to be that way (ie not eg a token £5 year, redeemable against drinks, if there's a legal requirement) - not coz I can't afford it, but because as someone above suggested I don't want to go to an 'exclusive' (as in excludes people) venue, especially in my own neighbourhood, where I'm probably friends with or have other relationships with the people you're excluding.
> 
> Please change my mind, and also explain why your ethos requires literal buying in, because I'd love to have a quality wine and cheese place on my doorstep (please send flames to P.O. Box 666 )


Pop in and meet us and see what we've done that's my best advice. Everyone who's been in here over the weekend has had no problem with the membership and one lady is buying it as a wedding gift for her mates. That's how positive people are about it. Jennie


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## sleaterkinney (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> tbf, i'm exactly the sort of person that would go out for a drink and come back with a bookshelf...  it's quite an appealing idea to me: i'm not mad keen on pubs, and this does sound like something more interesting.  But not if my mates don't feel equally welcome.  I'm not a twat.


Well you could go out, just not on a friday or saturday night.


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## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

Badgers said:


> So it is members ONLY from June? If someone turns up they have to become a member or can't come in for a drink?


It's members only on Friday and Saturday nights. Please come and have a drink and you'll get it! I promise


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## buscador (May 5, 2014)

Fortunately I don't think any of my friends who have been living and socialising in the area for many years will be interested in paying for this and I will therefore be spared from having the embarrassing conversation in which I have to explain that £20/month for the two of us is actually a week's worth of food, which is probably more important.


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## uk benzo (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> You know there's council housing in Herne Hill - or do those people not count as 'anyone'?
> 
> I know lots of people of different incomes living in HH.  Even of those lucky enough to have salaried jobs, lots of them have children, and childcare costs leave them with very little disposable income.  They might get to the end of the month and be able to go for a few drinks, and other months, might not. Others of them are in the arts: acting, music, writing...  generally labour-of-love type jobs where they subsist on low incomes because they love what they do. Others still just don't happen to have highly paid jobs. But perhaps all those people don't count as 'anyone in Herne Hill'.




To be fair, there are also 2.3 million pound properties just around the corner, delicatessens that sell quinoa-a-plenty and artisanal bakeries left right and centre. They are a business that want to cash in on the wealth. Fair play to them.

It's not my cup of tea, but I hope they do well. It's positive that they came here to explain their business model.


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## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:
			
		

> It's members only on Friday and Saturday nights. Please come and have a drink and you'll get it! I promise



Get a drink?


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## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> It's members only on Friday and Saturday nights. Please come and have a drink and you'll get it! I promise


So what happens when a local band is playing there on a weekend?  Can anyone come and see them or is it exclusive to members only?


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## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> Well you could go out, just not on a friday or saturday night.


We could... but then it becomes about why i'd want to spend my money somewhere that doesn't want us there on a friday or saturday.  

If you set up your stall saying 'we only want some of you on the busiest nights, but when we're more hard up for trade we'll let the others in', you can't be surprised when 'the others' feel a bit reluctant to co-operate.


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## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> We've lived in Herne hill a long time and love this place - we wouldn't do anything we felt would alienate the community.



Well this thread illustrates that you are alienating some of 'the community' at least.


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## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> So what happens when a local band is playing there on a weekend?  Can anyone come and see them or is it exclusive to members only?



I'll like to know the answer to this too...


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## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> To be fair, there are also 2.3 million pound properties just around the corner, delicatessens that sell quinoa-a-plenty and artisanal bakeries left right and centre. They are a business that want to cash in on the wealth. Fair play to them.
> 
> It's not my cup of tea, but I hope they do well. It's positive that they came here to explain their business model.


quinoa isn't expensive.  artisan bread costs a few quid...  this is a step beyond.  the trendy deli/bakery doesn't turn anyone away if they can afford a three quid loaf every once in a  while.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> You know there's council housing in Herne Hill - or do those people not count as 'anyone'?
> 
> I know lots of people of different incomes living in HH.  Even of those lucky enough to have salaried jobs, lots of them have children, and childcare costs leave them with very little disposable income.  They might get to the end of the month and be able to go for a few drinks, and other months, might not. Others of them are in the arts: acting, music, writing...  generally labour-of-love type jobs where they subsist on low incomes because they love what they do. Others still just don't happen to have highly paid jobs. But perhaps all those people don't count as 'anyone in Herne Hill'.


That is exactly why we are offering a monthly plan (not contract!) and it works out to £2 per week. We aren't trying to exclude anyone and we recognise that there are many types of incomes in Hh. I'm not trying to argue with you I'm trying to explain why we are doing what we are doing. We are having children readalongs twice a month - that had nothing to do with the membership for Friday and Saturday nights. If I can't afford to go to Marcus Wareing I don't go - I can't argue with him about charging £90 for a tasting menu. The point is this is what our business model is and as I've said it's not in effect until June. And it's only on Friday and Saturday nights. I appreciate you don't agree and you have a right to your opinion but that doesn't mean that we cannot operate and haven't had a lovely reception to our soft opening and what we are doing. I've really said all I can say - I invite you to come and see us instead of debating something that we aren't changing because this is our business model. Warmest Jennie


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Everyone who's been in here over the weekend has had no problem with the membership



Out of all the people that have come down over the weekend how many have signed up as members?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

Well...we've been told.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> quinoa isn't expensive.  artisan bread costs a few quid...  this is a step beyond.  the trendy deli/bakery doesn't turn anyone away if they can afford a three quid loaf every once in a  while.


 I'm a little confused as to how a deli or bakery is getting compared to an amazing music wine and cheese venue? It's simply comparing apples with bananas at this point! Seriously we welcome you all. But you won't get a sausage roll here  you'll get killer music, amazing wine and cheese and awesome banter!


----------



## uk benzo (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> quinoa isn't expensive.  artisan bread costs a few quid...  this is a step beyond.  the trendy deli/bakery doesn't turn anyone away if they can afford a three quid loaf every once in a  while.



I go through 2 loaves a week. If I were to spend £3/loaf in a Herne Hill artisanal bakery, that equates to £24/month or £288 a year (instead of £96/year from Asda/Tesco).


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

what killer music....give us an example?


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

(((Sausage rolls)))


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> Out of all the people that have come down over the weekend how many have signed up as members?


We had 250 people here on Friday, Saturday was slow everywhere and Sunday was consistent the whole day and not one person went away without telling us how proud they were of us and how happy they were with what we've done.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> That is exactly why we are offering a monthly plan (not contract!) and it works out to £2 per week. We aren't trying to exclude anyone and we recognise that there are many types of incomes in Hh. I'm not trying to argue with you I'm trying to explain why we are doing what we are doing. We are having children readalongs twice a month - that had nothing to do with the membership for Friday and Saturday nights. If I can't afford to go to Marcus Wareing I don't go - I can't argue with him about charging £90 for a tasting menu. The point is this is what our business model is and as I've said it's not in effect until June. And it's only on Friday and Saturday nights. I appreciate you don't agree and you have a right to your opinion but that doesn't mean that we cannot operate and haven't had a lovely reception to our soft opening and what we are doing. I've really said all I can say - I invite you to come and see us instead of debating something that we aren't changing because this is our business model. Warmest Jennie


Not quite sure why you keep on ignoring this question, but let me try wording it differently. I co-edit the biggest music listings site in the area and want to ensure that our listings are accurate and helpful. 

So if you have a band playing there on a weekend from June, what words would I put under the listing as regards admission? Is it members only?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

I like Sausage Rolls. I like Cheese.

I feel conflicted now.


----------



## uk benzo (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> what killer music....give us an example?



That's very subjective, and I suspect that whatever the response given, they will get criticised.


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> That is exactly why we are offering a monthly plan (not contract!) and it works out to £2 per week. We aren't trying to exclude anyone and we recognise that there are many types of incomes in Hh. I'm not trying to argue with you I'm trying to explain why we are doing what we are doing. We are having children readalongs twice a month - that had nothing to do with the membership for Friday and Saturday nights. If I can't afford to go to Marcus Wareing I don't go - I can't argue with him about charging £90 for a tasting menu. The point is this is what our business model is and as I've said it's not in effect until June. And it's only on Friday and Saturday nights. I appreciate you don't agree and you have a right to your opinion but that doesn't mean that we cannot operate and haven't had a lovely reception to our soft opening and what we are doing. I've really said all I can say - I invite you to come and see us instead of debating something that we aren't changing because this is our business model. Warmest Jennie




"warmest"




Look - I've said from the start that you have every right to do what you like.  I've just tried to clarify your reasoning, explain why I - as part of your target demographic who could afford to join - won't be going, and to react to some things you've said here that don't make any sense.  To help you understand why some local people might find your enterprise a bit unpleasant.

If you weren't trying to keep anyone out, it'd be cheaper.  It isn't, because you want to select your clientele - you've been clear about that from post one - but you can't then go on to claim that you aren't trying to exclude anyone.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> We had 250 people here on Friday, Saturday was slow everywhere and Sunday was consistent the whole day and not one person went away without telling us how proud they were of us and how happy they were with what we've done.


Where did you advertise this soft launch that attracted so many happy people?


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> We had 250 people here on Friday, Saturday was slow everywhere and Sunday was consistent the whole day and not one person went away without telling us how proud they were of us and how happy they were with what we've done.



And how many of the people parted with cash and signed up as members?


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> what killer music....give us an example?


Our house band is the Hobos. Aaron Delahunty. Chinska Brassiska. Danna Soloman. Jez Periera (voted top Dj in London and resident of Radio Bar at the ME Hotel). Google or Fb them - just to name a few  it's fantastic music


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Where did you advertise this soft launch that attracted so many happy people?


Our Facebook page. Off The Cuff - OTC bar


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> That's very subjective, and I suspect that whatever the response given, they will get criticised.



This is urban. This is what happens to everything anyone ever says.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> And how many of the people parted with cash and signed up as members?


I'm not sure how many businesses give away that information so I'm definitely not going to be the first!!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

The Hobos - oh the irony.....


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Our Facebook page. Off The Cuff - OTC bar


Ah, so that was to the niche, self selecting crowd who follow your Facebook page rather than a general invite to the local population. Could you answer my question about the admission policy to see bands on weekends now, please?


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> I go through 2 loaves a week. If I were to spend £3/loaf in a Herne Hill artisanal bakery, that equates to £24/month or £288 a year (instead of £96/year from Asda/Tesco).


whereas we only buy bread at the weekend.  it's a choice, innit?  if you want to go to an expensive bar or restaurant you can cut down in other places.  Plenty of people go to the pub  once a week or more...  I go once a month or less, but spend a lot on a night out.  Each to their own - but if you save the money you can buy from any of those places, or even eat at Marcus Wareing.  You don't have to buy a membership first.


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

The point is... people may have been complimentary towards you but that doesn't mean anything unless they've joined up as members. That's the real test.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm afraid that I think it is, so I won't be there, and I'd find it very hard to recommend to anyone, but good luck with it.


Thanks and appreciate the well wishes


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> We had 250 people here on Friday, Saturday was slow everywhere and Sunday was consistent the whole day and not one person went away without *telling us how proud they were of us* and how happy they were with what we've done.


Would it be fair to say that this was mostly friends and family?

I can't imagine telling a stranger i was proud of them...


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Would it be fair to say that this was mostly friends and family?
> 
> I can't imagine telling a stranger i was proud of them...



I was thinking this


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

Sweetie you clearly don't want to come and thats cool I've said all I can. Now I'm going to go and fix everything up for the people that do and love the place no point continuing really. Hope you're cool. Enjoy your bread and we will do cheese and wine and everyone's happy !


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

Sweetie?


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> quinoa isn't expensive.  artisan bread costs a few quid...  this is a step beyond.  the trendy deli/bakery doesn't turn anyone away if they can afford a three quid loaf every once in a  while.


I curse that bakery. I never ever paid more than £2 for a loaf. Ever. Then one fateful day I realised as passing that I need loaf in a hurry and begrudgingly paid £3 for a sourdough loaf. And now it has become a dangerous habit. I've even re-routed my dog walk to fit in a visit. You might think £3 is not that bad, that you can handle it, but it's just an entry loaf. It paved the way for me to begrudgingly pay £4 (it wasn't labelled) for a olive oil something or other loaf in Market Row. It was fucking delicious. Now my life is spiralling out of control. I was just a normal guy who sought weekly comfort in the arms of the famous buttered toast served at the Phoenix  - this can happen to anybody. A curse on that bakery and those who bake in it.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Would it be fair to say that this was mostly friends and family?
> 
> I can't imagine telling a stranger i was proud of them...


Herne hill has loads of amazing positive people I meet them daily - I've got to cut this off as we are preparing for Thursday but appreciate the feedback.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

Lol


Rushy said:


> I curse that bakery. I never ever paid more than £2 for a loaf. Ever. Then one fateful day I realised as passing that I need loaf in a hurry and begrudgingly paid £3 for a sourdough loaf. And now it has become a dangerous habit. I've even re-routed my dog walk to fit in a visit. You might think £3 is not that bad, that you can handle it, but it's just an entry loaf. It paved the way for me to begrudgingly pay £4 (it wasn't labelled) for a olive oil something or other loaf in Market Row. It was fucking delicious. Now my life is spiralling out of control. I was just a normal guy who sought weekly comfort in the arms of the famous buttered toast served at the Phoenix  - this can happen to anybody. A curse on that bakery and those who bake in it.


psml


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Sweetie you clearly don't want to come and thats cool I've said all I can. Now I'm going to go and fix everything up for the people that do and love the place no point continuing really. Hope you're cool. Enjoy your bread and we will do cheese and wine and everyone's happy !


Patronising is where you talk down to people.  

You came to us.  If you don't want to know what people think, don't invite conversation.  But "everyone's happy"?  Quite apparently not.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Herne hill has loads of amazing positive people I meet them daily - I've got to cut this off as we are preparing for Thursday but appreciate the feedback.


You still haven't answered my entirely relevant, reasonable and polite question about your admission policy for bands on weekends, and I have to say I'm finding it a little frustrating.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 5, 2014)

'People like it' is missing the point of the criticism. I've no doubt some people will (and for better or worse there's probably plenty of them in HH these days), but you're clearly aiming to exclude the wrong types of people. I don't really see why you're denying it tbh.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> The point is... people may have been complimentary towards you but that doesn't mean anything unless they've joined up as members. That's the real test.


But that's our business and that's what we've decided to do. If we fail in a months time feel free to have a go but so far so good. I don't understand all the negativity so I'm going to get back to work as this is the only place anyone has had a problem. As I said pop down if you want and if you don't we're pretty confident and passionate. All the best


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

The young people talk is a bit annoying as well. Awesome, killer etc :/


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

membership includes 'entrance via the private members entrance to the premises'

if it's members only on a Friday and Saturday why do you have a member's only entrance...surely that's just the entrance?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> Sweetie?



Innit....


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> The young people talk is a bit annoying as well. Awesome, killer etc :/



Young american people talk....


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Young american people talk....


from the nineties...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> from the nineties...



They're N Sync...


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Ah, so that was to the niche, self selecting crowd who follow your Facebook page rather than a general invite to the local population. Could you answer my question about the admission policy to see bands on weekends now, please?


For may you can come in as you wish after that on Friday and Saturday nights you need to be a member to comply with our licensing and you can bring up to 2 non members with you.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> membership includes 'entrance via the private members entrance to the premises'
> 
> if it's members only on a Friday and Saturday why do you have a member's only entrance...surely that's just the entrance?



It's going to look a bit like this:


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> But that's our business and that's what we've decided to do. If we fail in a months time feel free to have a go but so far so good. I don't understand all the negativity so I'm going to get back to work as this is the only place anyone has had a problem. As I said pop down if you want and if you don't we're pretty confident and passionate. All the best



You've admitted that you dont want the povos in your bar. Thats what ppl find objectionable. #disingenuous


----------



## MrSki (May 5, 2014)

Sausage rolls are awesome. Seriously I am in awe of sausage rolls.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> For may you can come in as you wish after that on Friday and Saturday nights you need to be a member to comply with our licensing and you can bring up to 2 non members with you.



So if a band plays then their regular and devoted fans can only come if they become a member....

....or come with a member and bring photo ID?


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> The young people talk is a bit annoying as well. Awesome, killer etc :/


Ok guys I'm going to exist this convo now I've done my best to explain our business model. I'm not spending the rest of the day debating prices of bread or council housing in HH if you can't afford the membership or you can't afford to drink here then don't come. I don't go to places that I can't afford or don't want to belong to. It's pretty simple. Hope you all have a fabulous rest of your bank holiday. We've got work to do!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

Is there a dress code?


----------



## sleaterkinney (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> The young people talk is a bit annoying as well. Awesome, killer etc :/


They use the f work on their website as well.


> Welcome to Off The Cuff, South London's only wine & cheese bar specialising in bespoke and reclaimed furniture. We are located conveniently next to Herne Hill station, just feet from gorgeous Brockwell Park. Whether you're a wine afficianado and a cheese addict (like we are) or you're looking for a funky, chilled environment to relax, drink some coffee and engage in some quality banter - OTC Bar is the place for you.



Can you be funky and chilled at the same time?.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

W


Nanker Phelge said:


> So if a band plays then their regular and devoted fans can only come if they become a member....
> 
> ....or come with a member and bring photo ID?


We have live bands on Thursdays which are non members nights also.


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> They use the f work on their website as well.



OMG the F word


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> W
> 
> We have live bands on Thursdays which are non members nights also.



Thursday is prole night.....hurrah!


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Is there a dress code?


Not really. We are always wearing hats and the like - just be cool!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Not really. We are always wearing hats and the like - just be cool!



 thanks for that.....


----------



## ddraig (May 5, 2014)

how can you assure the 'quality banter' ? especially going by your posts here
do you have a professional banterer and is that too available to non members or just normal run of the mill banter?


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Is it a raaahly "amazing wine and cheese" venue"?

I dislike anyone that uses "amazing" or "banter" in there wording.....it stinks of PR\Marketing and I bet my cock has better cheese.

Sounds like your perfect for Herne Hill and it's denizens. You deserve each other.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> So if a band plays then their regular and devoted fans can only come if they become a member....
> 
> ....or come with a member and bring photo ID?


Yes


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Ok guys I'm going to exist this convo now I've done my best to explain our business model. I'm not spending the rest of the day debating prices of bread or council housing in HH if you can't afford the membership or you can't afford to drink here then don't come. I don't go to places that I can't afford or don't want to belong to. It's pretty simple. Hope you all have a fabulous rest of your bank holiday. We've got work to do!



Lots of the people who have posted on this thread can afford the membership but your attitude stinks and that's what will put people off.


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Yes



You really havent thought that through.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> Is it a raaahly "amazing wine and cheese" venue"?
> 
> I dislike anyone that uses "amazing" or "banter" in there wording.....it stinks of PR\Marketing and I bet my cock has better cheese.
> 
> Sounds like your perfect for Herne Hill. You deserve each other.


Well I guess by that kind of comment after everything I've been trying hard to explain you're exactly the reason we want to be a members club because you're just rude. Right I'm going to work. You enjoy the rest of your bank holiday.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (May 5, 2014)

Urbanites entertaining the promotion of a posh cheese and wine gaff... The fuck's this place coming to?


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

((( alfajobrob )))


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> Lots of the people who have posted on this thread can afford the membership but your attitude stinks and that's what will put people off.[/QUOTE
> Then don't come to it. Please.


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Well I guess by that kind of comment after everything I've been trying hard to explain you're exactly the reason we want to be a members club because you're just rude. Right I'm going to work. You enjoy the rest of your bank holiday.


because wealthy people are polite people?  Have you ever seen the way wealthy people sometimes treat those in the service industries?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 5, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Urbanites entertaining the promotion of a posh cheese and wine gaff... The fuck's this place coming to?



I think the conversation has been quite revealing...


----------



## ddraig (May 5, 2014)

flounce and "your loss" in 3..2..


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

You've gone from begging us to come down and see for ourselves to telling us to fuck off within a matter of hours. You're gonna need a lot more patience than that on prole night


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

N


spanglechick said:


> because wealthy people are polite people?  Have you ever seen the way wealthy people sometimes treat those in the service industries?


no I'm just saying that if you're rude I wouldn't want you at my bar that's as simple as it is!


----------



## ddraig (May 5, 2014)

popty isn't rude tho


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

This thread has changed my mind...are you open tonight?


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> Is it a raaahly "amazing wine and cheese" venue"?
> 
> I dislike anyone that uses "amazing" or "banter" in there wording.....it stinks of PR\Marketing and I bet my cock has better cheese.
> 
> Sounds like your perfect for Herne Hill and it's denizens. You deserve each other.


----------



## Belushi (May 5, 2014)

Next South London drinks?


----------



## buscador (May 5, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Next South London drinks?



I would rather go to Bromley.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> N
> 
> no I'm just saying that if you're rude I wouldn't want you at my bar that's as simple as it is!



Are you interviewing members to measure their rudeness....or will their money do all the talking?


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

I wouldn't mind the abuse either but I'm quite a polite chap really.......I take my glasses back to the bar and everything


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Next South London drinks?



Pleeeease can we have our nexts drinks there... wearing hats and the like. Paah


----------



## Belushi (May 5, 2014)

Well we have been invited to check the place out for ourselves :thumbs :


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Our Facebook page. Off The Cuff - OTC bar


Hi Sweetie,I don't do facebook so could you tell me if members have to pay on the nights you charge or is that covered in the initial outlay? On a lighter note can you promise me that my coat and the table im sitting at wont be sold while i pop off to the loo? Thanks.


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Make sure it's on a Thursday


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> Pleeeease can we have our nexts drinks there... wearing hats and the like. Paah



You can do the date poll. Thursday night...or Thursday night. Vote now!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

I don't got a hat...


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I don't got a hat...



No probs, I've got a pith helmet you can borrow...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> No probs, I've got a pith helmet you can borrow...



Prole night special....thanks


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> No probs, I've got a pith helmet you can borrow...


one he can take, shurely...


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

"OTC Bar is the only venue in South London housed in a 150 year old arch."

Hmm....


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Oh sorry you can borrow my "vintage" miners cap and tin of shoe polish instead....


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Hi Sweetie,I don't do facebook so could you tell me if members have to pay on the nights you charge or is that covered in the initial outlay? On a lighter note can you promise me that my coat and the table im sitting at wont be sold while i pop off to the loo? Thanks.



'Excuse me...but I believe you are sitting on MY chair....'


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> "OTC Bar is the only venue in South London housed in a 150 year old arch."
> 
> Hmm....


quite...  I can think of two other S London railway arch bars off the top of my head.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

I shall refer to the Time Out South London Arch Bar Guide....


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> You've gone from begging us to come down and see for ourselves to telling us to fuck off within a matter of hours. You're gonna need a lot more patience than that on prole night



Go easy,Sweetie has confessed to being a Cheese addict and may be going through withdrawal symptoms.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

I wonder if it'll be anything like Taco Joe's


----------



## leanderman (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> W
> 
> We have live bands on Thursdays which are non members nights also.



My night off. Excellent.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Go easy,Sweetie has confessed to being a Cheese addict and may be going through withdrawal symptoms.



Fromage freebase...


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24


> *Reporting posts.* This is your way of helping the moderators turf out troublesome posters/trolls and advertisers. Please do not use it for anything other than posts that clearly break the rules listed here


The rules are here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/help/terms
Please read them before reporting any further posts. Thank you.


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> 'Excuse me...but I believe you are sitting on MY chair....'


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

Are members allowed in on non members night. I dont think they should be. dont seem fair!


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> My night off. Excellent.



Hmnnn.....

Are you being facetious or contrary?


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> OTCbarSE24
> The rules are here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/help/terms
> Please read them before reporting any further posts. Thank you.


oh, *please* can we know who she reported?


I used to be a licencee...  a long time ago.  What I do know is that working with people who are consuming alcohol requires a thick skin and a lot of resilience... members or no.


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Fromage freebase...



"Got any from bruv"?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> "Got any from bruv"?



locally sourced....


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> "OTC Bar is the only venue in South London housed in a 150 year old arch."
> 
> Hmm....


It will certainly be vibrant then.


----------



## ddraig (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> OTCbarSE24
> The rules are here: http://www.urban75.net/forums/help/terms
> Please read them before reporting any further posts. Thank you.


trying to reverse their google ranking and backpedal the Streisand effect?


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> locally sourced....


Naturally.


----------



## leanderman (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> Hmnnn.....
> 
> Are you being facetious or contrary?



I may take a look.


----------



## prunus (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Pop in and meet us and see what we've done that's my best advice. Everyone who's been in here over the weekend has had no problem with the membership and one lady is buying it as a wedding gift for her mates. That's how positive people are about it. Jennie



Hi; I might well do this, but I will ask the same question as I'm asking here, and I'd appreciate you answering here tbh (as I think some other posters here would too).

To be clear, I have no problem paying £100 to be a member of something I want to be part of, it's not the cost per se (for me) that's giving me pause, it's the motivation for its existence.

I can see three possible reasons for it (non-exclusive btw):

1) the income (guaranteed?, upfront?) is required to make your numbers stack up to run the place.

2) you have to charge this much as a minimum threshold for licensing reasons.

3) to exclude the type of people who can't afford it.

I suppose there's a fourth:

4) to be selling to people a feeling of importance in that they belong to an 'exclusive' club - as with wine (and many things) people will consider it of more intrinsic value if you charge a lot for it.

I'd just like to know which of these (or something else) is your motivation. 

The first two, sort of fair enough, if unfortunate, but such is economics/regulation.  

The second two, I don't really want anything to do with that ethos.  So please clarify?  

I do love wine and cheese though.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

prunus said:


> Hi; I might well do this, but I will ask the same question as I'm asking here, and I'd appreciate you answering here tbh (as I think some other posters here would too).
> 
> To be clear, I have no problem paying £100 to be a member of something I want to be part of, it's not the cost per se (for me) that's giving me pause, it's the motivation for its existence.
> 
> ...


There's a problem with (1) though in that if what you're offering isn't deemed to be worth the fairly substantial outlay - _and_ it ends up alienating potential customers - you end up reducing your potential income substantially while damaging the brand. 

The fact that local residents will effectively be barred from seeing any of the amazing bands that are supposedly booked by virtue of them not knowing the 'right people' or being able to afford a membership might, I suspect, rather piss them off.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> Pleeeease can we have our nexts drinks there... wearing hats and the like. Paah



Please don't think just because I always wear hats that I am endorsing OTC in any way. I could only afford to go there if I stop feeding buscador - she might object...


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 5, 2014)

Maggot 


buscador said:


> I would rather go to Bromley.


It seems that she has been persuaded to go beyond zone 2 after all


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I may take a look.



Let us know how it goes.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> This thread has changed my mind...are you open tonight?


L


prunus said:


> Hi; I might well do this, but I will ask the same question as I'm asking here, and I'd appreciate you answering here tbh (as I think some other posters here would too).
> 
> To be clear, I have no problem paying £100 to be a member of something I want to be part of, it's not the cost per se (for me) that's giving me pause, it's the motivation for its existence.
> 
> ...


thank you for asking a legitimate and nice question. I'm really happy to respond to all of this and am sorry that the tone of this thread has taken a nose dive as that wasn't my intention at all.

We are making it private members club so that we can comply with the licensing we are operating under which allows us greater ability to stay open later and offer regulated entertainment without continually getting new licensing (which includes more and more costs). We felt that £10 per month was a fair rate to be able to enjoy the licensing that we are getting approved for and we want to make sure that we have everyone's information because I have been involved with bars in south London that have had their licensing revoked due to misappropriate behaviour and the like - which I think anyone who has been around here long enough has been exposed to. We have sunk all of our own capital into this place and we want to protect it and our clientele by making sure we know who is going to be here on the later evenings. 

We do want an element of exclusivity as we have worked tirelessly to provide an amazing venue and sourcing seriously quality exclusive produce for people to enjoy. 

We have not had any investors and no credit to build this place from scratch so we feel that people will appreciate seeing us be successful and all that members money will get reinvested into the venue and the entertainment.

We've built a place by hand from laying concrete to breaking through walls to sanding oak. We are really proud of it and it's the first time we've done this and I want to make sure it's right for us and right for the people who want to populate it. 

Our prices are reasonable and we think that our proposition is unique. We have had no response other than that - which I suppose is why I've taken some of the comments on here quite personally. 

But personally I love my bar more than anything I've ever done and I have never been happier so again I invite you to come and enjoy the happiness that the place is affording us because it will do the same for you.


----------



## quimcunx (May 5, 2014)

If a month's membership can be bought on the door then it is effectively a £10 entry fee if you want to see a band on a Friday or Saturday night? Presumably you then get either the rest of that month or a month's free (?) entry on Friday and Saturday nights should you wish to do so. Is that right?


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> If a month's membership can be bought on the door then it is effectively a £10 entry fee if you want to see a band on a Friday or Saturday night? Presumably you then get either the rest of that month or a month's free (?) entry on Friday and Saturday nights should you wish to do so. Is that right?


You can't always sign up to club membership immediately.

OTCbarSE24  What will the beer range be like? Will you serve pints? How much will you be charging?


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

How much of an 'element of exclusivity' do you want?


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> oh, *please* can we know who she reported?
> 
> 
> I used to be a licencee...  a long time ago.  What I do know is that working with people who are consuming alcohol requires a thick skin and a lot of resilience... members or no.



I think it was me...she has tried to quote me twice but somehow hasn't got function of the interwebz yet. #middleclasspleb.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> You can't always sign up to club membership immediately.
> 
> OTCbarSE24  What will the beer range be like? Will you serve pints? How much will you be charging?


Yes it's £10/month - we will register you and there's no contract. Bottled beers are £4. We have a range of lovely wines, bubbles and a box of random reds that you can choose yourself if you fancy!


----------



## Dr_Herbz (May 5, 2014)

How much is a glass of wine, two slices of Cheddar add two Jacob's Cream Crackers?


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Yes it's £10/month - we will register you and there's no contract. Bottled beers are £4. We have a range of lovely wines, bubbles and a box of random reds that you can choose yourself if you fancy!


So no beer on tap, and £4 for a small bottle of bottled beer? What beers will you have?


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Yes it's £10/month - we will register you and there's no contract. Bottled beers are £4. We have a range of lovely wines, bubbles and a box of random reds that you can choose yourself if you fancy!


We will not be offering pints. We have a few top shelf liquors but no shots. We aren't a pub. My business partner loves footie but there's no tv screens. Seriously I am so tired from working so hard I just recommend you pop in and see what we are about because I don't want to wind anyone up and I think this whole thread has gone against the positive vibe that we've seen in person so far.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

will you have little ritz crackers? It'd be like christmas everyday if you did?


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

This is going swimmingly well.


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> If a month's membership can be bought on the door then it is effectively a £10 entry fee if you want to see a band on a Friday or Saturday night? Presumably you then get either the rest of that month or a month's free (?) entry on Friday and Saturday nights should you wish to do so. Is that right?


tb absolutely f, that's not a bad way of looking at it...  if you like live music enough to pay to see it...  which i don't, really.  But i'm aware lots of people do.  Perhaps for a comedy night, if they did those.


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:
			
		

> Yes it's £10/month - we will register you and there's no contract. Bottled beers are £4. We have a range of lovely wines, bubbles and a box of random reds that you can choose yourself if you fancy!



So if I come in June and pay £10 but don't come back till August, will I have to pay £10 again or £20 to cover the July membership payment I missed?


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> We will not be offering pints. We have a few top shelf liquors but no shots. We aren't a pub. My business partner loves footie but there's no tv screens. Seriously I am so tired from working so hard I just recommend you pop in and see what we are about because I don't want to wind anyone up and I think this whole thread has gone against the positive vibe that we've seen in person so far.


no gin and (slimline) tonics?!  won't somebody think of the carbohydrates!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> no gin and (slimline) tonics?!  won't somebody think of the carbohydrates!



It's not a bloody pub...dammit!


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> It's not a bloody pub...dammit!


yebbut.  gin and tonics! the middle classes!  indivisible!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> yebbut.  gin and tonics! the middle classes!  indivisible!



you is proper out of sync innit


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> If a month's membership can be bought on the door then it is effectively a £10 entry fee if you want to see a band on a Friday or Saturday night? Presumably you then get either the rest of that month or a month's free (?) entry on Friday and Saturday nights should you wish to do so. Is that right?



If that's the case, then that makes it sound like a much better deal... and not half as annoying or excluding than all the exclusive guff.

Although what happens if someone turns up to see their fave band and they aren't the right fit/n'synx etc?


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> tb absolutely f, that's not a bad way of looking at it...  if you like live music enough to pay to see it...  which i don't, really.  But i'm aware lots of people do.  Perhaps for a comedy night, if they did those.


We are planning on doing stand up, wine tasting and poker nights for me members. It's an evolving concept.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

Probably not a good time to ask for a DJ slot is it?


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> We will not be offering pints. We have a few top shelf liquors but no shots. We aren't a pub. My business partner loves footie but there's no tv screens. Seriously I am so tired from working so hard I just recommend you pop in and see what we are about because I don't want to wind anyone up and I think this whole thread has gone against the positive vibe that we've seen in person so far.


I'm unlikely to find the time this month, and am even more unlikely to find the enthusiasm to visit a bar where I have to pay £10 just to get in, and then pay £4 for an unspecified small bottle of beer.

I understand this thread isn't going as well as you hoped, but you really should treat it as useful market research. Your friends may all love your bar, but they'll be unlikely to keep coming back week after week, and I suspect there may be a lot of potential customers in your area who may be thinking exactly the same as some of the posters here.

Whether you choose to listen to their comments - and perhaps consider some changes based on that feedback - is entirely up to you, of course.


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> It's not a bloody pub...dammit!



True....It's a shitty semi aspirational members club for people that want to graduate to the Groucho.

I still might pop down for a pint* but need to sort the beard and wanker glasses out first.

*sorry bottle


----------



## quimcunx (May 5, 2014)

poptyping said:


> If that's the case, then that makes it sound like a much better deal... and not half as annoying or excluding than all the exclusive guff.
> 
> Although what happens if someone turns up to see their fave band and they aren't the right fit/n'synx etc?



That can and does happen at other venues doesn't it?  Or does it?  I'm not really in a position to know, tbh.


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

quimcunx said:
			
		

> That can and does happen at other venues doesn't it?  Or does it?  I'm not really in a position to know, tbh.



To be fair a lot of the pubs I like would make them and their punters feel unwelcome


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm unlikely to find the time this month, and am even more unlikely to find the enthusiasm to visit a bar where I have to pay £10 just to get in, and then pay £4 for an unspecified small bottle of beer.
> 
> I understand this thread isn't going as well as you hoped, but you really should treat it as useful market research. Your friends may all love your bar, but they'll be unlikely to keep coming back week after week, and I suspect there may be a lot of potential customers in your area who may be thinking exactly the same as some of the posters here.
> 
> Whether you choose to listen to their comments - and perhaps consider some changes based on that feedback - is entirely up to you, of course.


I appreciate the feedback and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think we will are going to stick with how we are planning it so far but the name is Off The Cuff so we will see how it goes and evolves  on that note I'm shattered have a good one all!


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

I don't have a problem with the idea of a private member's bar in principle but I just assumed that they were only really likely to be  popular in an area where either: 
a) it is massively busy all the time, like Soho, and people who are out and about there regularly want a place they can go to which is not rammed with tourists - a little oasis as it were, or 
b) provides a service in an area where socialising options often are limited - I guess like a country club / golf club / etc.. 

To be fair, it is getting to the stage in Brixton where I would consider annual membership for a place which was open late, had great music, a more local crowd and not rammed full of really young clubby postcode tourists spilling pints over me. Not because I don't still like such places - but I also like things to be a little less full on from time to time and that has become nigh on impossible around here on weekends. Herne Hill is not Brixton though - it's not horribly busy nor a destination for thousands of weekend people. Busy pubs up there are usually full of fairly familiar faces rather than being destination venues. So I don't quite get it. I think the membership fee might be a problem, even though it is affordable for a lot of people. But I'm intrigued to come up and take a look and see what you've done.


----------



## leanderman (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> We are planning on doing stand up, wine tasting and poker nights for me members. It's an evolving concept.



poker! deal me in


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

Are old people allowed?


----------



## leanderman (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I don't have a problem with the idea of a private member's bar in principle but I just assumed that they were only really likely to be  popular in an area where either:
> a) it is massively busy all the time, like Soho, and people who are out and about there regularly want a place they can go to which is not rammed with tourists - a little oasis as it were, or
> b) provides a service in an area where socialising options often are limited - I guess like a country club / golf club / etc..
> 
> To be fair, it is getting to the stage in Brixton where I would consider annual membership for a place which was open late, had great music, a more local crowd and not rammed full of really young clubby postcode tourists spilling pints over me. Not because I don't still like such places - but I also like things to be a little less full on from time to time and that has become nigh on impossible around here on weekends. Herne Hill is not Brixton though - it's not horribly busy nor a destination for thousands of weekend people. Busy pubs up there are usually full of fairly familiar faces rather than being destination venues. So I don't quite get it. I think the membership fee might be a problem, even though it is affordable for a lot of people. But I'm intrigued to come up and take a look and see what you've done.



I share your doubts. Hard to see it working there


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> That can and does happen at other venues doesn't it?  Or does it?  I'm not really in a position to know, tbh.



Dunno tbh. I've not heard of that system before tho...

Second part of my post was directed at Jennie...


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm unlikely to find the time this month, and am even more unlikely to find the enthusiasm to visit a bar where I have to pay £10 just to get in, and then pay £4 for an unspecified small bottle of beer.



I'm sure leanderman would be happy to help me pen a review on this venue if Brixton Buzz has not got the time / enthusiasm to visit for themselves.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> To be fair, it is getting to the stage in Brixton where I would consider annual membership for a place which was open late, had great music, a more local crowd and not rammed full of really young clubby postcode tourists spilling pints over me.


I hope we _never _get that. I didn't move to Brixton to be part of some exclusive crowd. Besides, such a venture would be full of the very people you've just described anyway, what with many of them having more disposable cash than many of the long term locals I know.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I'm sure leanderman would be happy to help me pen a review on this venue if Brixton Buzz has not got the time / enthusiasm to visit for themselves.


Sure!


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> tbf, i'm exactly the sort of person that would go out for a drink and come back with a bookshelf...  it's quite an appealing idea to me: i'm not mad keen on pubs, and this does sound like something more interesting.  But not if my mates don't feel equally welcome.  I'm not a twat.


 Come on in and we can sort something out. We are super reasonable and if you're into interesting furniture you'll love my biz partner he's hilarious and finds the most amazing stuff!


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (May 5, 2014)

So it's a wine bar

...
Yes?


Sorry OP...I just tried to wade through the first few pages here and gave up.....  

Best of luck with it. ..it's not easy setting up any bar / pub  in the current climate.


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Come on in and we can sort something out. We are super reasonable if you have loads of money and if you're into interesting furniture at an exorbitant price for a load of old junk then you'll love my biz partner he's hilarious and finds the most amazing stuff to flog you at upmarket rates!



Sounds good.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I hope we _never _get that. I didn't move to Brixton to be part of some exclusive crowd. Besides, such a venture would be full of the very people you've just described anyway, what with many of them having more disposable cash than many of the long term locals I know.





Rushy said:


> I'm sure leanderman would be happy to help me pen a review on this venue if Brixton Buzz has not got the time / enthusiasm to visit for themselves.


Be great if you guys could come in a few weeks as we are still finishing up a few bits and bobs - it was only our soft opening this weekend and it's not all perfect - I won't lie!


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> So it's a wine bar
> 
> ...
> Yes?
> ...


Wine cheese and furniture - plus live music. Www.otcbar.co.uk


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

I can't think of a better night tbh. I often go out for a drink and worry about my choice of sofa and general decor.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Wine cheese and furniture - plus live music. Www.otcbar.co.uk



Will you have original art work too?


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> Sounds good.


What's the point of being like that? If you don't like our concept then you just don't have to come - easy as! There's no need to be rude about something I've just spent my life savings on. Seriously - I don't want to get wound up and I'm really trying hard to explain our vibe and be inviting but this type of comment is unnecessary and I don't know why you feel it necessary to tear down a brand new business that is trying so hard to be something unique and positive?


----------



## Belushi (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> What's the point of being like that? If you don't like our concept then you just don't have to come - easy as! There's no need to be rude about something I've just spent my life savings on. Seriously - I don't want to get wound up and I'm really trying hard to explain our vibe and be inviting but this type of comment is unnecessary and I don't know why you feel it necessary to tear down a brand new business that is trying so hard to be something unique and positive?



What's positive about excluding a big chunk of the local community?


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> I can't think of a better night tbh. I often go out for a drink and worry about my choice of sofa and general decor.


Well I guess you've figured out where you don't need to be going so simpler choice mate! Easy as! For those who do think we have something unique to offer then they can enjoy it. I'm seriously not trying to be rude but not sure why you keep going on when you're clearly not interested in joining us - id spend my bank holiday doing something else - just advice.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Well I guess you've figured out where you don't need to be going so simpler choice mate! Easy as! For those who do think we have something unique to offer then they can enjoy it. I'm seriously not trying to be rude but not sure why you keep going on when you're clearly not interested in joining us - id spend my bank holiday doing something else - just advice.



You've spent your bank holiday here too...


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

I'm just exinea


Nanker Phelge said:


> You've spent your bank holiday here too...


i was positively promoting and  actively inviting people to my bar which is my job.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (May 5, 2014)

I say best of luck to you... I can't think of anything better than taking money off people who have so much of it that they'd rather pay someone else to go to the dump for their furniture.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> Will you have original art work too?


We have loads of local artists exhibiting their work, custom jewellry by House of Fifi out of Streatham and Re Fab is doing a monthly body painting on a live model.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> i was positively promoting and  actively inviting people to my bar which is my job.


I hope you're listening to the feedback too.


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> What's the point of being like that? If you don't like our concept then you just don't have to come - easy as! There's no need to be rude about something I've just spent my life savings on. Seriously - I don't want to get wound up and I'm really trying hard to explain our vibe and be inviting but this type of comment is unnecessary and I don't know why you feel it necessary to tear down a brand new business that is trying so hard to be something unique and positive?



unique\positive\eurrggrhhh

It's a message board and these things happen. Personally I hope you lose all your inheritance as you sound like a self absorbed little princess.

I bet your partner runs the over-priced furniture shop on the corner....am I right?


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

Thank you it's been insane! Please come and join us for a night


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> You've spent your bank holiday here too...



I might go for a pint now though...just not there.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> unique\positive\eurrggrhhh
> 
> It's a message board and these things happen. Personally I hope you lose all your inheritance as you sound like a self absorbed little princess.
> 
> I bet your partner runs the over priced furniture shop on the corner....am


No you're not right and I've earned everything I've got. Thanks for the encouragement - id love to know what you've accomplished with your life except putting honest hard working people down for no reason??


----------



## Winot (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Sweetie



Greebo - is that you?


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> I might go for a pint now though...just not there.


 You're not welcome here so don't worry and we don't do pints f


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> So it's a wine bar
> 
> ...
> Yes?
> ...


Thanks so much


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> No you're not right and I've earned everything I've got. Thanks for the encouragement - id love to know what you've accomplished with your life except putting honest hard working people down for no reason??



It makes it sound like your running a home for kids....you sound like a twat.


----------



## Greebo (May 5, 2014)

Winot said:


> Greebo - is that you?


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

Are dogs allowed?


----------



## MrSki (May 5, 2014)

Do you let RMT union members join?


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> I'm just exinea
> 
> i was positively promoting and  actively inviting people to my bar which is my job.



I think it sounds nice. I don't understand the "exclusivity" slant..in this day and age it does smack of snobbery and that grates with most people tbh.
Anyone can enjoy wine, cheese, furniture, art, jewellery etc. 
Like others have said...best of luck with it and a word of advice...dont limit your market by excluding people who dont "fit" your model of a desirable customer  Everyone should be a potential customer


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

I hate the terms "honest" and "hard working" as well btw...you shouldn't use them as it makes you sound like a bigger cunt than you are


----------



## buscador (May 5, 2014)

I must say, it's a curious state of affairs when a new business tries to advertise itself and within a few short pages is proudly stating that various people are not welcome.


----------



## ddraig (May 5, 2014)

if some hooray Claphamite or whatever pays for a membership and is anything other than complimentary will they be not welcome and banned or given a pass as they've paid?


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> It makes it sound like your running a home for kids....you sound like a twat.


The feeling is mutual


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> I hate the terms "honest" and "hard working" as well btw...you shouldn't use them as it makes you sound like a bigger cunt than you are


im done with this go for your pint and quit picking on me. You're a mean sod.


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

Football shirts okay?


----------



## Winot (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I hope we _never _get that. I didn't move to Brixton to be part of some exclusive crowd.



But you've complained many times about the nu-Brixton crowd filling up the town centre, snapping their fingers at bar staff, trying to buy street coke and generally being twats.  Wouldn't you like a space that you could call your own?  Something that was more like the old Brixton you knew and loved? I think there's a real gap in the market for a private members' club for old school Brixton...


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> im done with this go for your pint and quit picking on me. You're a mean sod.



Sorry.....it was like shooting fish in a barrel 

I'll pop down for a bottle. I'll bring my mac and everything x


----------



## cuppa tee (May 5, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Are dogs allowed?


this, and can they be on foot or should they be carried in a shopping bag ?


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> I hate the terms "honest" and "hard working" as well btw...you shouldn't use them as it makes you sound like a bigger cunt than you are


Probably because you wouldn't know what honest or hard working was if it slapped you in your mean face. Talk about ruining someone's day for no reason. Please stay well away from my bar.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> You can't always sign up to club membership immediately.
> 
> OTCbarSE24  What will the beer range be like? Will you serve pints? How much will you be charging?


How do I delete my account - this isn't the kind of forum I want to be associated with.


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Probably because you wouldn't know what honest or hard working was if it slapped you in your mean face. Talk about ruining someone's day for no reason. Please stay well away from my bar.



You got me there...I'm a lazy dishonest sod and that's my good side.

I'm still gonna pop in though x


----------



## Belushi (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> How do I delete my account - this isn't the kind of forum I want to be associated with.



These aren't the yuppies you're looking for


----------



## nogojones (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Probably because you wouldn't know what honest or hard working was if it slapped you in your mean face. Talk about ruining someone's day for no reason. Please stay well away from my bar.




I think you'll find just about everyone here will


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> You got me there...I'm a lazy dishonest sod and that's my good side.
> 
> I'm still gonna pop in though x





Belushi said:


> These aren't the yuppies you're looking for


thats cool I don't need abuse after spending all this time and graft working to help the community become better. Mean spirited people on here.


----------



## tufty79 (May 5, 2014)

what're your soft drink prices like?


----------



## Belushi (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> thats cool I don't need abuse after spending all this time and graft working to help the community become better. Mean spirited people on here.



Yet you're the one charging a £100 a year so you can keep the poor out.


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:
			
		

> How do I delete my account - this isn't the kind of forum I want to be associated with.



Are you FoxyRed?


----------



## spanglechick (May 5, 2014)

Heavens to Betsy!  I think someone needs a nap.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Probably because you wouldn't know what honest or hard working was if it slapped you in your mean face.



That's mean.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> How do I delete my account - this isn't the kind of forum I want to be associated with.



You should have thought about that before you tried to flog us your awesome pub....and put down sausage rolls.


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> How do I delete my account - this isn't the kind of forum I want to be associated with.


----------



## buscador (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> thats cool I don't need abuse after spending all this time and graft *working to help the community become better*. Mean spirited people on here.



Absolute twaddle. And disingenuous claptrap at that.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> How do I delete my account - this isn't the kind of forum I want to be associated with.



Are you gonna tell your mum on us....


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

Do you do food? Herne Hill could do with a place that does a bottled beer and a decent jacket potato.


----------



## Belushi (May 5, 2014)

Funny thing is I bet OTCbar is always prattling on about how great it is to live in such a diverse neighbourhood


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Funny thing is I bet OTCbar is always prattling on about how great it is to live in such a diverse neighbourhood



rich and diverse neighbourhood...


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> thats cool I don't need abuse after spending all this time and graft working to help the community become better. Mean spirited people on here.



That oft neglected Herne Hill community just trying to buy shit furniture in a wanky members bar......bless them and you.


----------



## peterkro (May 5, 2014)

Who's doing security an outside team or in house.I think you should be aware that there are some very heavy hitters in the security game who are based in Herne Hill.


----------



## classicdish (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> ...unlikely to find the enthusiasm to visit a bar where I have to pay £10 just to get in, and then pay £4 for an unspecified small bottle of beer...


Sounds like a lot of clubs in London (although if it's £10 for a member plus two guests then it's a lot cheaper).


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

Right.....when we all going then.....Thursday?


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Blessed are the......


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> thats cool I don't need abuse after spending all this time and graft working to help the community become better. Mean spirited people on here.




Ummm.....community work and exclusive wine bars don't really sound compatible??


----------



## Belushi (May 5, 2014)

Maybe we can club together for a membership and pass it round.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

At least a group disount....


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

Belushi said:
			
		

> Maybe we can club together for a membership and pass it round.



Good plan sir. You stick in a fiver and I will cover the other half for June. Then you and two mates can do Fridays (mates can chip in too) and I will do Saturdays. Then in July I will take Fridays and you gave Saturdays. Jobs a good un


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 5, 2014)

I wish I could charge my mates £100 per annum Stella Membership and flog some of the banter round my way cuz it is killer 24/7 and I'm just giving it away


----------



## Badgers (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:
			
		

> At least a group disount....



10% off wearing an Urban75 t-shirt?


----------



## quimcunx (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> thats cool I don't need abuse after spending all this time and graft *working to help the community become better*. Mean spirited people on here.



Can you explain what work you have done to help the community become better?


----------



## classicdish (May 5, 2014)

Belushi said:


> What's positive about excluding a big chunk of the local community?


If it's £10 for a month, with 2 guests then potentially that's an 83p cover charge (eg. four times in a month). How many people does that exclude?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

classicdish said:


> If it's £10 for a month, with 2 guests then potentially that's an 83p cover charge (eg. four times in a month). How many people does that exclude?



skint people?


----------



## MrSki (May 5, 2014)

Badgers said:


> 10% off wearing an Urban75 t-shirt?


I got one of them but it has holes in it.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> Can you explain what work you have done to help the community become better?



They pay hobos to perform music.


----------



## Winot (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> How do I delete my account - this isn't the kind of forum I want to be associated with.



That's the trouble with a forum that offers free entry - easy to get in but very hard to escape.


----------



## T & P (May 5, 2014)

Epic thread


----------



## classicdish (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> skint people?


If people can't afford an 83p cover charge then I doubt they are going out to pubs drinking £3.60 pints either, so again, who exactly is being excluded by the cover charge?

Who here boycotts places that have cover charges of more than 83p?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

At the end of the day Urban did wonders for the cheese and champagne place....they are doing a marvellous trade and making a right proper go of it.

Our general disaproval is mainly a good thing for any up and coming elitist venture flogging posh shit to people too stupid to think about what they are paying for stuff they don't really need.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

classicdish said:


> If people can't afford an 83p cover charge then I doubt they are going out to pubs drinking £3.60 pints either, so again, who exactly is being excluded by the cover charge?
> 
> Who here boycotts places that have cover charges of more than 83p?



I boycott anywhere I have to pay to get in unless I'm paying to get in to see something specific....like a band or a DJ. I'd never pay to go for a drink.


----------



## MrSki (May 5, 2014)

Winot said:


> That's the trouble with a forum that offers free entry - easy to get in but very hard to escape.


Hotel Brixton or whatever.


----------



## quimcunx (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> At the end of the day Urban did wonders for the cheese and champagne place....they are doing a marvellous trade and making a right proper go of it.



Is there reason to think their success was boosted in any way by urban?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> Is there reason to think their success was boosted in any way by urban?



Other than in my own cynical mind...? No.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (May 5, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> How do I delete my account - this isn't the kind of forum I want to be associated with.


----------



## classicdish (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> ...paying for stuff they don't really need


...like food, alcohol, music and entertainment?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

classicdish said:


> ...like food, alcohol, music and entertainment?



You make it all sound so common....


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> At the end of the day Urban did wonders for the cheese and champagne place....they are doing a marvellous trade and making a right proper go of it.
> 
> Our general disaproval is mainly a good thing for any up and coming elitist venture flogging posh shit to people too stupid to think about what they are paying for stuff they don't really need.



Are you suggesting Urban75 can or did possibly play a part in the gentrification of the area and may have been part of it's inexorable progress in Brixton?

If so, that's a different thread.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> Are you suggesting Urban75 can or did possibly play a part in the gentrification of the area and may have been part of it's inexorable progress in Brixton?
> 
> If so, that's a different thread.



I think urban75 has influence....

....I think publicity is publicity and we gave that business plenty....did it help them...I don't know, but I don't think it hurt them.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

classicdish said:


> Sounds like a lot of clubs in London (although if it's £10 for a member plus two guests then it's a lot cheaper).


I think those kind of clubs generally offer a bit more of a full-on club experience.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Winot said:


> But you've complained many times about the nu-Brixton crowd filling up the town centre, snapping their fingers at bar staff, trying to buy street coke and generally being twats.  Wouldn't you like a space that you could call your own?  Something that was more like the old Brixton you knew and loved? I think there's a real gap in the market for a private members' club for old school Brixton...


A private, members-only club with an annual membership fee would be just about _the very last place_ I'd want to hang out in, and it would also be just about the last place to find anything remotely like the "the old Brixton I knew and loved."

There's still enough friendly, _inclusive_ places places to be found, so I'm not going to be tempted to buy into exclusivity.


----------



## classicdish (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I think those kind of clubs generally offer a bit more of a full-on club experience.


Horses for courses really. Some people will spend their money for hours of full-on trendy banging noise and fancy flashing lights, some people want to dribble into a ketamine induced puddle in some crusty squat-juiced warehouse ... and maybe others will spend their money on whatever vibe this place offers (I'll reserve judgement what that is exactly until people report back).

However when you actually break it down this place still sounds far cheaper than the first two (edit: afaict most squat parties these days cost £).


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

classicdish said:


> However when you actually break it down this place still sounds far cheaper than the first two.


Only in the specific set of circumstances that you've dreamt up, which doesn't compare like with like. Find me a comparable local venue demanding £10/month membership just to get in (with or without entertainment) selling small bottles of beer at £4 a go, and let's work out the maths then.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (May 5, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


>



Nice lookin bit of cheese there


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> Nice lookin bit of cheese there


_Fromage_, surely?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> There's still enough friendly, _inclusive_ places places to be found, so I'm not going to be tempted to buy into exclusivity.



indeed


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> _Fromage_, surely?



Think you mean vommage x


----------



## Scutta (May 5, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> Can you explain what work you have done to help the community become better?


apart from creating a non poncy 'space' to avoid looking at poor people?


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> I bet your partner runs the over-priced furniture shop on the corner....am I right?


That shop Bleu was on Coldharbour Lane almost opposite 414 for at least 5 years before it moved to Herne Hill. Nice bloke who runs it - I have momentarily forgotten his name. Agree it is overpriced though. I think he makes his money providing furniture for installations for photo shoots and shops and suchlike. He was definitely ahead of the shabby chic / industrial trend.


----------



## Belushi (May 5, 2014)

I'd quite like to join an exclusive members club, but not one run by some chancers flogging overpriced bottles of beer and upcycled tat in a railway arch in Herne Hill.

I'd want to belong to one of those real Gentlemen's clubs in St James's.  Deep leather chairs and mahogany tables, stuffed Rhino heads on the wall, Rowley Birkin QC very very drunk in the corner : thumbs:


----------



## Winot (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> That shop Bleu was on Coldharbour Lane almost opposite 414 for at least 5 years before it moved to Herne Hill. Nice bloke who runs it - I have momentarily forgotten his name.



Moses.


----------



## Winot (May 5, 2014)

Belushi said:


> I'd quite like to join an exclusive members club, but not one run by some chancers flogging overpriced bottles of beer and upcycled tat in a railway arch in Herne Hill.
> 
> I'd want to belong to one of those real Gentlemen's clubs in St James's.  Deep leather chairs and mahogany tables, stuffed Rhino heads on the wall, Rowley Birkin QC very very drunk in the corner : thumbs:



A friend is a member of the Atheneum (he's a historian and it's very serious and academic). Think annual membership is something like £1500.


----------



## leanderman (May 5, 2014)

Were I to join a private club, it would have to be no more than 200 yards from home


----------



## classicdish (May 5, 2014)

Belushi said:


> I'd want to belong to one of those real Gentlemen's clubs in St James's.  Deep leather chairs and mahogany tables, stuffed Rhino heads on the wall, Rowley Birkin QC very very drunk in the corner : thumbs:


Here you go:

Royal Automobile Club, 89-91 Pall Mall, founded 1897, £3300 to join (proposed and seconded by two existing members, possibly an interview), then £1450 per year fees.






alternatively: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_London's_gentlemen's_clubs


----------



## MrSki (May 5, 2014)

Winot said:


> A friend is a member of the Atheneum (he's a historian and it's very serious and academic). Think annual membership is something like £1500.


Lucky him to be able to afford it. I am sure that he meets lots of other historians there. Mind you if he wants to buy a bit of knocked off furniture...


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (May 5, 2014)

Belushi said:


> I'd quite like to join an exclusive members club, but not one run by some chancers flogging overpriced bottles of beer and upcycled tat in a railway arch in Herne Hill.
> 
> I'd want to belong to one of those real Gentlemen's clubs in St James's.  Deep leather chairs and mahogany tables, stuffed Rhino heads on the wall, Rowley Birkin QC very very drunk in the corner : thumbs:



I'd like to belong to an exclusive fish 'n' chippers .... twice fried chips cut to the exact thickness you'd want and made from the nicest spuds with no black eyes or green bits. Freshly caught cod every day...in beer batter that's light and puffy....
I'd happily give a few quid a month in membership ...


----------



## T & P (May 5, 2014)

Belushi said:


> I'd quite like to join an exclusive members club, but not one run by some chancers flogging overpriced bottles of beer and upcycled tat in a railway arch in Herne Hill.
> 
> I'd want to belong to one of those real Gentlemen's clubs in St James's.  Deep leather chairs and mahogany tables, stuffed Rhino heads on the wall, Rowley Birkin QC very very drunk in the corner : thumbs:


Don't forget ironed copies of the Telegraph on side tables or monocles falling out in shock if a woman enters the reading room


----------



## Belushi (May 5, 2014)

Thanks for the suggestions but I already have my eye on the East India Club..


----------



## Winot (May 5, 2014)

MrSki said:


> Lucky him to be able to afford it. I am sure that he meets lots of other historians there. Mind you if he wants to buy a bit of knocked off furniture...



That's the gap in the market OTC has cleverly spotted.


----------



## Smick (May 5, 2014)

The £100 membership only covers Friday and Saturday nights so works out quite expensive unless you intend to be there every weekend for two nights, which will be expensive, what with drinking and smoking the night away.

Also Jennie, your pleas to get people down to understand your vibe seems like plain old drumming up trade.

Why not set aside six bottles of vino, those who come in and say Urban 75 get a free glass, get to make a decision. If it is as good as you suggest, you'll get repeat trade and possibly the second, third drink at rrp.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 5, 2014)

classicdish said:


> If people can't afford an 83p cover charge then I doubt they are going out to pubs drinking £3.60 pints either, so again, who exactly is being excluded by the cover charge?
> 
> Who here boycotts places that have cover charges of more than 83p?



Some of us can occasionally scrape £3.60 together for a drink around here (at that price I thought that it included a cover charge.) 
If they did allow us in, even for free, I doubt we could afford their specially chosen wines.


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> There's still enough friendly, _inclusive_ places places to be found, so I'm not going to be tempted to buy into exclusivity.


Inclusivity isn't the problem though, is it. Most of Brixton is pretty inclusive - it is what makes it so popular. Just so rammed full on weekends and everywhere is "banging". Even my old favourites for a relaxed weekend pint - even the fucking Trinity - are rammed now. It's inclusive if you want a clubby or giggy style night. Hardly any chance of sitting down for a few drinks. I'd be quite happy paying more for something less hectic from time to time.


----------



## quimcunx (May 5, 2014)

Belushi said:


> I'd quite like to join an exclusive members club, but not one run by some chancers flogging overpriced bottles of beer and upcycled tat in a railway arch in Herne Hill.
> 
> I'd want to belong to one of those real Gentlemen's clubs in St James's.  Deep leather chairs and mahogany tables, stuffed Rhino heads on the wall, Rowley Birkin QC very very drunk in the corner : thumbs:



I'd join the Caledonian Club for the year-round access to haggis.


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Smick said:


> The £100 membership only covers Friday and Saturday nights so works out quite expensive unless you intend to be there every weekend for two nights, which will be expensive, what with drinking and smoking the night away.
> 
> Also Jennie, your pleas to get people down to understand your vibe seems like plain old drumming up trade.
> 
> Why not set aside six bottles of vino, those who come in and say Urban 75 get a free glass, get to make a decision. If it is as good as you suggest, you'll get repeat trade and possibly the second, third drink at rrp.



I promise not to come to this Jen as we probably won't get on....but good idea...what say you?

It could get you some good publicity, goodwill and trade rather what you have been serving up already.


----------



## Winot (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Inclusivity isn't the problem though, is it. Most of Brixton is pretty inclusive - it is what makes it so popular. Just so rammed full on weekends and everywhere is "banging". Even my old favourites for a relaxed weekend pint - even the fucking Trinity - are rammed now. It's inclusive if you want a clubby or giggy style night. Hardly any chance of sitting down for a few drinks. I'd be quite happy paying more for something less hectic from time to time.



Agreed. 

Getting old...


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

Smick said:


> The £100 membership only covers Friday and Saturday nights so works out quite expensive unless you intend to be there every weekend for two nights, which will be expensive, what with drinking and smoking the night away.


Cheaper than going to the Dogstar between once and twice a month on a weekend.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Cheaper than going to the Dogstar between once and twice a month on a weekend.


And you think the two experiences are even remotely comparable? 

PS It's free to get into the Dogstar before 10pm all weekend and they serve pints too.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Inclusivity isn't the problem though, is it. Most of Brixton is pretty inclusive - it is what makes it so popular. Just so rammed full on weekends and everywhere is "banging". Even my old favourites for a relaxed weekend pint - even the fucking Trinity - are rammed now. It's inclusive if you want a clubby or giggy style night. Hardly any chance of sitting down for a few drinks. I'd be quite happy paying more for something less hectic from time to time.


You may have to travel a little further, but The Marquis of Lorne may suit your needs. There's other pubs not far away that aren't always rammed too.


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> And you think the two experiences are even remotely comparable?



No. Do they need to be?


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Cheaper than going to the Dogstar between once and twice a month on a weekend.



Who goes to the Dogstar - Young people with a lack of soul.

I want my Private Member's club to be more exclusive than a bunch of Hoxton wannabe's. I'll never be invited to one that I would consider joining anyway.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 5, 2014)

Is this thread dead yet?


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> You may have to travel a little further, but The Marquis of Lorne may suit your needs. There's other pubs not far away that aren't always rammed too.


Beautiful pub indeed. But it's not open late. And when I said I want something less hectic - that does not mean dour and lifeless - which I am afraid has always been my experience of that pub. How it survives is beyond me.


----------



## Miss-Shelf (May 5, 2014)

classicdish said:


> Here you go:
> 
> Royal Automobile Club, 89-91 Pall Mall, founded 1897, £3300 to join (proposed and seconded by two existing members, possibly an interview), then £1450 per year fees.
> 
> ...


don't they have a very attractive swimming pool - that would be worth it I reckon


----------



## Miss-Shelf (May 5, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> I'd join the Caledonian Club for the year-round access to haggis.


what about the clooty dumpling?  or square sausage roll?


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> No. Do they need to be?


For your comparison to have any point, yes, I would have thought so.


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> don't they have a very attractive swimming pool - that would be worth it I reckon



Try joining


----------



## Miss-Shelf (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> Try joining


ha ha - just fancy a fancy swimming pool


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Beautiful pub indeed. But it's not open late. And when I said I want something less hectic - that does not mean dour and lifeless - which I am afraid has always been my experience of that pub. How it survives is beyond me.


The Grosvenor can be quite lively but not rammed beyond belief on some weekends (but usually not when there's a fearful punk band playing). Same for the Queen's.


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> For your comparison to have any point, yes, I would have thought so.


When comparing the exclusivity of the door prices? If you say so...


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> ha ha - just fancy a fancy swimming pool



I prefer the snooker tables.....I don't think they will agree to let me join though......it's probably because I'm "mean"


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> When comparing the exclusivity of the door prices? If you say so...


Well the door cost for the Dogstar is zero before 10pm - no £100/year membership is needed - and it's open till 4am.


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> The Grosvenor can be quite lively but not rammed beyond belief on some weekends (but usually not when there's a fearful punk band playing). Same for the Queen's.


They are both largely gigging venues. Most nights I have ever had at the Queen's Head have been pretty hectic. Why are you so desperate to shoehorn what I want into your preconceived ideas about what is acceptable entertainment?


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Well the door cost for the Dogstar is zero before 10pm - no £100/year membership is needed - and it's open till 4am.


Yes - because no one really wants to go to the Dogstar before 10


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> They are both largely gigging venues. Most nights I have ever had at the Queen's Head have been pretty hectic. Why are you so desperate to shoehorn what I want into your preconceived ideas about what is acceptable entertainment?


I was trying to suggest places that you mighty like.


*gives up


----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> I was trying to suggest places that you mighty like.
> 
> 
> *gives up



Bless your cotton socks for trying.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Yes - because no one really wants to go to the Dogstar before 10


Oh dear. You're a bit out of the loop here. It's often busy before 10pm.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Bless your cotton socks for trying.


I won't bother again if all I'm going to get is your spiteful sneering in return.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (May 5, 2014)




----------



## Rushy (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Oh dear. You're a bit out of the loop here. It's often busy before 10pm.



There is no disagreement that you are more down with the kids, Ed.


----------



## MrSki (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Bless your cotton socks for trying.


Just go to some shite pub they rarely have many punters.


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Rushy said:


> There is no disagreement that you are more down with the kids, Ed.


It was just a factual statement, that's all.


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Get a room you two.....this thread is about being spiteful to new posh people and I will not have it disrupted.

I will start reporting posts if this continues.


----------



## alfajobrob (May 5, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


>



Deserves a proper like....is that the entrance now btw?


----------



## Dr_Herbz (May 5, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> Deserves a proper like....is that the entrance now btw?


I think it is... Looks well worth the membership fee


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> I think it is... Looks well worth the membership fee



Here's an interior shot from their Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/OTC-Bar-Off-The-Cuff/345253852282895


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 5, 2014)

Oh I'm missing Arch 269 so much. Fuck all this fancy bollocks. I wanna go to a techno rave in arch that looks like a bomb shelter with all my mates...


----------



## editor (May 5, 2014)

Have to say it looks a bit...


----------



## buscador (May 5, 2014)

editor said:


> Here's an interior shot from their Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/OTC-Bar-Off-The-Cuff/345253852282895



Is that supposed to be enticing us to visit? Their punters appear to be so bored they can't even sit up.


----------



## alfajobrob (May 6, 2014)

editor said:


> Here's an interior shot from their Facebook page: http://www.facebook.com/pages/OTC-Bar-Off-The-Cuff/345253852282895



Jesus...they re-imaged my Nan's Anderson shelter in a spacious and contemporary way. I imagine they do loads of amazing projects for the community as well.

It's absolutely fascinating and I for one am looking forward to hear about the work they are doing and have done locally.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

Another punter kipping...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

I can only imagine the people are sat on the floor cos the chairs had 'sold' signs on them


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> Jesus...they re-imaged my Nan's Anderson shelter in a spacious and contemporary way. I imagine they do loads of amazing projects for the community as well.
> 
> It's absolutely fascinating and I for one am looking forward to hear about the work they are doing and have done locally.



I read that as Ian Andersons shelter......fuck dat awesome shit, man!


----------



## leanderman (May 6, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Another punter kipping...



Such an 'edgy' location ... there is a knitting shop opposite


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Such an 'edgy' location ... there is a knitting shop opposite



Needles in the streets man


----------



## Rushy (May 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Such an 'edgy' location ... there is a knitting shop opposite


I got locked in that building during a pre-auction viewing. I was down in the basement when they locked up and buggered off. I had  to get a passer by to call the agents .


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I got locked in that building during a pre-auction viewing. I was down in the basement when they locked up and buggered off. I had  to get a passer by to call the agents .



druggy


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 6, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Hi All - I've just had an opportunity to read the conversations going on about the proposed launch of our new venture in Herne Hill and just wanted to take this opportunity to clarify and personalise what the concept of our new venture is and hopefully absolve some of the negative response that has been posted.
> 
> My name is Jennie. My business partner is Tony. We have spent the last 4 months building a bar/club/new venue that we truly hope will bring a new and exciting vibe to not just Herne Hill but all of South London. As long term members of the community, we saw a need for something special and unique and we looked long and hard to find the right place to build that pipe dream.
> 
> ...



Too long to read. Keep it short, snappy, edgy and vibrant.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 6, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Ok guys I'm not spending the rest of the day debating prices of bread or council housing in HH if you can't afford the membership then don't come. It's pretty simple.



That's called a PR disaster.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 6, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> because wealthy people are polite people?  Have you ever seen the way wealthy people sometimes treat those in the service industries?



To be fair, the middle class are often if not always polite when engaging in class warfare. See the Brixton main thread (May edition) as a reference point.


----------



## teuchter (May 6, 2014)

I'm a member of Whirled Cinema, which is also in a railway arch, and minutes away from council housing.

If I remember rightly, membership is eighty something a year now.

It has a bar with bottled beers around the 4 quid mark. You can get a pint but only Peroni.

I think I remember someone on here saying they would like to join but couldn't because of the waiting list.

Discuss. 

And if you don't display enough vicarious rage for the excluded you aren't trying hard enough, urban75. Hammer at those £300+ smartphones as self righteously as you can.


----------



## alfajobrob (May 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I'm a member of Whirled Cinema, which is also in a railway arch, and minutes away from council housing.
> 
> If I remember rightly, membership is eighty something a year now.
> 
> ...









Bless you for making the world righteous..your a true warrior.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 6, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> How do I delete my account - this isn't the kind of forum I want to be associated with.



 Oh my gosh, you are actually good. Funniest thread this year. This is fucking brilliant.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Oh my gosh, you are actually good. Funniest thread this year. This is fucking brilliant.



"we wear hats and the like - just be cool" is my fave line ever on Urban said without any hint of irony....I actually had to get up and walk around the block to stop laughing.....


----------



## kittyP (May 6, 2014)

I think she's gone


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 6, 2014)

I had a great Bank Holiday and then i came home and read this thread


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

kittyP said:


> I think she's gone



BUMMER


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

I do fancy a bit of cheese now though....


----------



## gabi (May 6, 2014)

Nobody exactly covered themselves in glory on this one tbf. She is trying to set up a business and blundered onto urban. Lasted quite a while considering the vitriol.

These places already exist across south London, she just made the mistake of choosing urban to advertise it. Doesn't seem that much of an asshole IMO. Herne hill has always been on the shishier side of south London. Very guardianista. I'm sure it'll do ok. Not my thing but good luck to her.

But yeh, get some fucking pints. Even guardian journos want a decent drink.


----------



## Smick (May 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I'm a member of Whirled Cinema, which is also in a railway arch, and minutes away from council housing.
> 
> If I remember rightly, membership is eighty something a year now.
> 
> ...


 
Not that I've been, but doesn't Whirled Cinema offer cheaper / free cinema for your membership fee, so if you are going to go often enough, it's an economic decision.

Also, you go and watch a film. Quite possibly spend nothing. Whereas this place is all about spending more on wine and cheese once you get in.

Finally, the membership benefits of WC don't only matter from 7pm onwards on a Friday or Saturday night.

I thought she was insincere and trying to present a utopia. Never previously having seen such a positive reaction to the opening of a club, although this is the first club she has opened. Her response to any question seems to be to implore everyone to come and buy some wine.

Of course membership is less expensive than going to a single venue with a cover charge every Friday and Saturday night but nobody ever does that.

As for me, with two young kids, my wife and I only get out about 5 Saturdays per year. She'd probably love wine, cheese, music and reclaimed timber but, as we are not members, I guess we'll end up in Brixton again.


----------



## Athos (May 6, 2014)

I think the extent to which economic exclusion is peculiar to this venue has been exaggerated. If a member went once a month, they'd be paying £8 a pop - not out of step with a lot of door prices, particularly if there's a band on.

That said, it doesn't appeal to me at all; I like pints of ale. But each to their own; I can see the attraction to fans of wine and cheese.

However, I do suspect this place will be full of wankers. They will be attracted by the exclusivity/right sort of people aspect. I think the owners have done themselves a disservice by pushing that as a selling point. If they'd come on here and said that we had to make it a club so that we can get the late license, and to make it a viable business, but that we don't want that to exclude anyone, such that we're offering concessions for the elderly, unemployed etc., they'd have got a much better reception, particularly if they could also show they're doing something for the community e.g. some sort of reduced deal for community groups to meet there, free tea and coffee one morning a week for the homeless etc.

As it stands, by focussing on the 'right sort of people' USP, they're saying that other local venues attract the wrong sort of people. That's straightforward snobbery, and bound to cause resentment.


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> Not that I've been, but doesn't Whirled Cinema offer cheaper / free cinema for your membership fee,
> .



This


----------



## Athos (May 6, 2014)

Exactly. They need to do a lot more to show what more/different you get for your money beyond the fact that you won't be rubbing shoulders with the majority of the locals, to avoid this looking like a place for edgy-seeking hipsters and people who'd prefer to live in Clapham but can't afford it.


----------



## Rushy (May 6, 2014)

Fingers 
I hope you briefed your mate about what to expect when you suggested they sign up!


----------



## editor (May 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Hammer at those £300+ smartphones as self righteously as you can.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> Not that I've been, but doesn't Whirled Cinema offer cheaper / free cinema for your membership fee, so if you are going to go often enough, it's an economic decision.
> 
> Also, you go and watch a film. Quite possibly spend nothing. Whereas this place is all about spending more on wine and cheese once you get in.
> 
> Finally, the membership benefits of WC don't only matter from 7pm onwards on a Friday or Saturday night.


Indeed - it was a hopelessly inept comparison.

While OTC charges £100/year _just to get in_ for two days a week - and then you'll be expected to pay at the bar all night to get anything out of it -  Whirled costs substantially less at £79 per year (£119 joint) and for this you get unlimited free films for you and a friend.

So you're paying upfront to to see films you want to see and you will almost certainly save your and your friend money (assuming that's you're a film buff, which is what the cinema is all about).


> Once you’ve paid your membership you don’t have to worry about queuing and buying tickets to see films, or paying for any added extras. You can watch as many films as you like for free, and you can even bring a guest free of charge to share the fun.
> 
> https://www.whirledcinema.com/about


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 6, 2014)

The comparisons here are a bit disingenuous IMO. OK even the poorest people sometimes have some disposable income and if they saved up then maybe they could afford to go to this place. Middle income people could give up something else if they fancied this instead. They won't though will they? It's clearly targeted at (and will attract) people who can burn a hundred quid extremely casually - there's just not enough in it for anyone else. Does anyone honestly think it's not going to draw in an exclusively very well off crowd?


----------



## editor (May 6, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The comparisons here are a bit disingenuous IMO. OK even the poorest people sometimes have some disposable income and if they saved up then maybe they could afford to go to this place. Middle income people could give up something else if they fancied this instead. They won't though will they? It's clearly targeted at (and will attract) people who can burn a hundred quid extremely casually - there's just not enough in it for anyone else. Does anyone honestly think it's not going to draw in an exclusively very well off crowd?


I think that is why people have got annoyed in this thread. For all the blather of 'community' it's clearly targeted an 'exclusive,' better-off demographic which, by its very nature, means that others are excluded.


----------



## Fingers (May 6, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Fingers
> I hope you briefed your mate about what to expect when you suggested they sign up!



I don't know Jennie but I know her business partner (though I think I have met her briefly once in the Commercial) 

I will most likely go down and check it out but the fact that it is bottles only and no pints puts me off enormously. A couple of friends went down over the weekend and enjoyed it but they too were put off by the bottle drinking and eventually returned to the Commercial so they could drink some pints.

Aside from all the debate about exclusivity, it is an old derelict railway arch which is no longer derelict so best of luck to them.


----------



## Yelkcub (May 6, 2014)

Crikey!


----------



## aussw9 (May 6, 2014)

Athos said:


> Exactly. They need to do a lot more to show what more/different you get for your money beyond the fact that you won't be rubbing shoulders with the majority of the locals, to avoid this looking like a place for edgy-seeking hipsters and people who'd prefer to live in Clapham but can't afford it.



There's nothing edgy or hip about clapham.


----------



## quimcunx (May 6, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The comparisons here are a bit disingenuous IMO. OK even the poorest people sometimes have some disposable income and if they saved up then maybe they could afford to go to this place. Middle income people could give up something else if they fancied this instead. They won't though will they? It's clearly targeted at (and will attract) people who can burn a hundred quid extremely casually - there's just not enough in it for anyone else. Does anyone honestly think it's not going to draw in an exclusively very well off crowd?



On Friday and Saturday nights at least.  At other times who knows. Lots of places have different demographics at different times.   I would not pay to go drinking here on a Saturday night but I would not pay to go drinking anywhere on a Saturday night.  Same for live music or DJs.  I would guess that the majority of money taken in clubs and bars on a Saturday night are from younger people with money to burn on drink and drugs and clubs.  I think you're right about the crowd it will draw, if the formula works. Businesses chase the money, hence pub refurbs etc.


----------



## Smick (May 6, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Does anyone honestly think it's not going to draw in an exclusively very well off crowd?



I think it will struggle to attract a large enough crowd at the weekend and revisit its membership pricing policy. Which, if not handled properly, might alienate its existing members. They might draw an exclusively very well off crowd, but if there are only 5 of them at any given time, it won't be profitable. Better to have 100 proles clutching fivers.

If I were to be on my way home from town at 6 on a Saturday, decide to go somewhere for a drink, go in to OTC and order a bottle of wine, will they turf me and my half full bottle of wine out at 7? If I want a £4 bottle of Beck's afterwards will they refuse to serve me, in spite of my having bought a £15 bottle of wine in the past hour? And do all this with empty tables?

Jennie is obviously enthusiastic, but I don't think that those on the paying side of the equation will be so enthusiastic.


----------



## teuchter (May 6, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Does anyone honestly think it's not going to draw in an exclusively very well off crowd?



I'd imagine it'll pull in a mostly comfortably well off crowd (as does WC). £10 a month? It's hardly millionaire territory.

As for the comparison with Whirled cinema - you pay your membership, and yes you get to see a film for free each week. You aren't obliged to spend anything at the bar, but most people do (and indeed it's stated as a kind of etiquette that you do use the bar sometimes as that's what makes the operation viable).

This place, as far as I can see you pay your membership and get to see some live music/DJs each weekend and it's up to you how much you want to spend at the bar. 

I don't see that one establishment is really any more "exclusive" than the other. The difference is what goes on inside. And the reality is that someone who can't afford to pay £10 a month is going to be excluded from lots and lots of things in London and locally, like going to many club nights or gigs or the theatre or restaurants.

I'm not going to defend the owner's choice of terminology or ideas about positive contributions to the local community but I don't really blame her for getting a bit upset when she was interrogated so aggressively from the moment she chose to post. And the line of interrogation focussed mainly on the supposedly exorbitant and unusually exclusive pricing model. It was clear that most people wanted to assume the worst about her intentions, as is so often the case on urban75.


----------



## Rushy (May 6, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> The comparisons here are a bit disingenuous IMO. OK even the poorest people sometimes have some disposable income and if they saved up then maybe they could afford to go to this place. Middle income people could give up something else if they fancied this instead. They won't though will they? It's clearly targeted at (and will attract) people who can burn a hundred quid extremely casually - there's just not enough in it for anyone else. Does anyone honestly think it's not going to draw in an exclusively very well off crowd?



In my experience willingness to burn money on exclusivity (or more particularly, perceived exclusivity) is not all that closely correlated with wealth. I particularly remember a roofer I used to work with who would blow every penny he earned on Champagne at China Whites every weekend without fail and drove Subaru Imprezza but lived off baked beans at home. I am pretty well off yet regularly staggered at what people pay for high street clothes, computers, headphones, etc. Yet I think you are right though that this won't offer enough for middle income earners to risk £100 on it and I don't see that it looks special enough for "high fly-ing exclusivity seekers".

If the main aim is to make a a home from home for a club of regulars and prevent the venue from being used more causally, then fair enough, but I'd have thought they could make it work on £25 a year membership. Enough to stop someone wanting to pay that to get in on one night (er - an Off the Cuff visit?!) but low enough that, if you only go there once a month works out as an inconsequential amount of cash for someone who goes out regularly (which, let's face it - not everyone can afford to do). I'd just be surprised if there is a demand for that kind of venue in Herne Hill. I think that after 1am any late venue would be desperate to have punters walking in.

The bottles thing is misleading I guess. Kegs take space and maintenance. They're starting out DIY and I can see why you'd avoid it to begin with. I'd imagine they would get introduced eventually if there was demand - which I expect there would be.

I think the OP came across really badly but she clearly was not expecting the torrent of shit she received, was upset and didn't know how to handle it - so I am happy to give her the benefit of the doubt. If read by outsiders I don't think she will have come across as any worse than many of the regular posters.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2014)

I just don't think the offering is going to be attractive enough for enough folks to spend £100/year given its location, the actual space itself and what's on offer. I may well be proved wrong of course and I do wish them the best in their venture (although I'm really not into the idea of private membership clubs like this one). Better the space be used than left empty.


----------



## teuchter (May 6, 2014)

editor said:


> I do wish them the best in their venture.


I can tell that from the tone of your brixton buzz "review".


----------



## quimcunx (May 6, 2014)

As with any new venture you have a plan and then, if you're sensible,  you adjust the plan if it's not working out.   Like that famous Scottish venue with its Scottish music that all us Scots and Scotophiles were going to populate every Saturday night, in our kilts.


----------



## leanderman (May 6, 2014)

But it's not in Brixton, it's Herne Hill. 

They do things differently there according, at least, to this poster I saw in the Florence pub yesterday


----------



## editor (May 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I can tell that from the tone of your brixton buzz "review".


Does it bill itself as a "review"? Why, no it doesn't!


----------



## Cowley (May 6, 2014)

Awesome thread! It's stopping me from doing my work, some of the comments on here are pure gold!


----------



## snowy_again (May 6, 2014)

Wow,  you lot certainly had busy bank holiday Mondays didn't you? 

What was wrong with sunshine in the park? 

Ed, you may not call it a review, but OTC called it their first 'write up' - which is pretty much the same thing:
https://www.facebook.com/pages/OTC-Bar-Off-The-Cuff/345253852282895


----------



## snowy_again (May 6, 2014)

Shouldn't they have called it _Timbre _anyway? Or TimBar... there's a world of shit puns to be had.


----------



## Ms T (May 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> I think it will struggle to attract a large enough crowd at the weekend and revisit its membership pricing policy. Which, if not handled properly, might alienate its existing members. They might draw an exclusively very well off crowd, but if there are only 5 of them at any given time, it won't be profitable. Better to have 100 proles clutching fivers.
> 
> If I were to be on my way home from town at 6 on a Saturday, decide to go somewhere for a drink, go in to OTC and order a bottle of wine, will they turf me and my half full bottle of wine out at 7? If I want a £4 bottle of Beck's afterwards will they refuse to serve me, in spite of my having bought a £15 bottle of wine in the past hour? And do all this with empty tables?
> 
> Jennie is obviously enthusiastic, but I don't think that those on the paying side of the equation will be so enthusiastic.



This.  The Jazz bar across the road didn't last long - they would do well to bear that in mind.  I'd quite like a wine bar in Herne Hill, personally, for the reasons that Rushy mentions.  But I won't be forking out for membership, especially when I am often working on a Friday/Saturday night.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Ed, you may not call it a review, but OTC called it their first 'write up' - which is pretty much the same thing:
> https://www.facebook.com/pages/OTC-Bar-Off-The-Cuff/345253852282895


It wasn't a review. I only post something as a review when I've been there and, err, reviewed it.


----------



## wurlycurly (May 6, 2014)

This venture has fail woven into its DNA. The location is bizarre and there's not nearly enough footfall. Having bouncers as part of the licensing terms is also insane, a £600-a-week (approx) handicap before any overpriced beer is sold. I'm surely not alone in avoiding bouncers at all cost if it's 1.45am and I'm a bit spangled. The whole idea seems saturated with wank.


----------



## snowy_again (May 6, 2014)

I don't know (aside from the silly membership, and all the other associated 'exclusivity') Escape was always busy - more so after normal pub closing hours from Thursday nights onwards. 

Jennie's statement that it's not in a residential area was foolish too - there's lots of people living around there - and neighbours and noise are what caused lots of friction with Bar 126 or whatever it was called - with late licensing, a sound system that had an interesting limiter etc...


----------



## wurlycurly (May 6, 2014)

Escape was seriously wonky at times, though. Largely courtesy of (surprise, surprise) the bouncers.


----------



## Smick (May 6, 2014)

I quite liked Escape. There are people living right on top of it though and I think each successive pub has failed as they can't play music late. I was quite intimidated by the blacked out window when it was Destiny's.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> I quite liked Escape. There are people living right on top of it though and I think each successive pub has failed as they can't play music late. I was quite intimidated by the blacked out window when it was Destiny's.



Yes, the owners get fed up trying to make something work against continued backlash from local residents complaining about noise and late licences....


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> I quite liked Escape. There are people living right on top of it though and I think each successive pub has failed as they can't play music late.


 
Well that and someone set fire to it.


----------



## wurlycurly (May 6, 2014)

Escape could easily have been a success but they missed a trick. They should have made it members only, excluding a conservative 99% of their potential customers. Schoolboy error with hindsight.


----------



## T & P (May 6, 2014)

Escape, Destiny... perhaps they should stop choosing names that seem better suited for an Essex nightclub. What next, Secrets?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> I'm a little confused as to how a deli or bakery is getting compared to an amazing music wine and cheese venue?



Similar prospective client demographic. 



> It's simply comparing apples with bananas at this point! Seriously we welcome you all. But you won't get a sausage roll here  you'll get killer music, amazing wine and cheese and awesome banter!



Sausage rolls too proletarian for you?


----------



## Supine (May 6, 2014)

I quite like the concept but this thread is lesson 101 in how not to promote it. 

It needs to grow organically via word of mouth to work. It  also needs the members to feel genuinely part of the running of the place. It sounds like they are just paying a cover charge for nights they won't necessarily go to.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I like Sausage Rolls. I like Cheese.
> 
> I feel conflicted now.



What about sausage rolls and cheese in a baguette?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> That's very subjective, and I suspect that whatever the response given, they will get criticised.



Perhaps the killer music truly is killer, and so not so much subjective, as murderous?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> What about sausage rolls and cheese in a baguette?



I like idea....might be a bit much though


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> membership includes 'entrance via the private members entrance to the premises'
> 
> if it's members only on a Friday and Saturday why do you have a member's only entrance...surely that's just the entrance?



Perhaps it's a euphemism, and means that once inside the club, someone will try and insert a member up your private members' entrance?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

poptyping said:


> The point is... people may have been complimentary towards you but that doesn't mean anything unless they've joined up as members. That's the real test.



Yes, never sensible to poll one-timers, as you only get a snapshot of what people will say in order to not upset the staff or owners.


----------



## boohoo (May 6, 2014)

If I was a members only club opening in Brixton, I'd post a thread to enrage the sense of the urban75 masses so that I could generate 13 pages of chitter chatter and a post from Brixton buzz. Better exposure than a few lines in a newspaper.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

MrSki said:


> Sausage rolls are awesome. Seriously I am in awe of sausage rolls.



Proper proletarian sausage rolls with short-crust or flaky pastry, or those posh puff pastry monstrosities that disintegrate in a shower of crumbs, comrade?


----------



## T & P (May 6, 2014)

Wasn't the now defunct Dex some kind of members club in some capacity?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> No you're not right and I've earned everything I've got. Thanks for the encouragement - id love to know what you've accomplished with your life except putting honest hard working people down for no reason??



"hard-working people"?  Thank you, SamCam.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

Greebo said:


>



Greebo smash?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

MrSki said:


> Do you let RMT union members join?



Funny enough, I was just thinking that the last "members' club" I used was the British Rail one at Waterloo.  They had Dortmunder Union on tap.


----------



## MrSki (May 6, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Proper proletarian sausage rolls with short-crust or flaky pastry, or those posh puff pastry monstrosities that disintegrate in a shower of crumbs, comrade?


Is it possible to be in awe of a sausage roll? 

I actually prefer pork pies. Melton Mowbray if your interested with a bit of English mustard.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> I think it sounds nice. I don't understand the "exclusivity" slant..in this day and age it does smack of snobbery and that grates with most people tbh.
> Anyone can enjoy wine, cheese, furniture, art, jewellery etc.
> Like others have said...best of luck with it and a word of advice...dont limit your market by excluding people who dont "fit" your model of a desirable customer  Everyone should be a potential customer



There's a very strong belief that's taught in business schools across the land, and that bleeds into public consciousness that every business has to have a USP (unique selling point) or two.  These can be sensible selling points or wacky ones, but the idea is that they make your business stand out from the crowd.
The problem with this philosophy is that when all businesses do it, it all gets rather samey, or worse, people get bored with the wackiness.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Probably because you wouldn't know what honest or hard working was if it slapped you in your mean face. Talk about ruining someone's day for no reason. Please stay well away from my bar.



If you can't take criticism, you really shouldn't be in any sort of "customer-facing" (as the eejits now call it) role, because you'll succumb to either depression or violence in very short order, you have to be able to just shrug it off.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

MrSki said:


> Is it possible to be in awe of a sausage roll?
> 
> I actually prefer pork pies. Melton Mowbray if your interested with a bit of English mustard.



That's my dad's second-favourite vice after...well, enough of that...


----------



## footballerslegs (May 6, 2014)

Christ almighty. The world is a big place. OTC is aiming itself at a certain demographic as the Marquis of Lorne (my local and favourite pub in the world) caters for another. OK, the idea of attracting an ‘exclusive’ crowd is pretty distasteful whichever way you look at it, but the way Jennie’s been crucified feels pretty lazy imo. Even sadder is that if she hadn’t have posted, OTC would have been criticised for not engaging with U75. So damned if you do and all that. I like U75 but I hope Jennie sees that many of the replies to her post are from people that would never have been interested in OTC anyway, and that her post simply allowed them the space to vent about it.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> thats cool I don't need abuse after spending all this time and graft working to help the community become better. Mean spirited people on here.



You're opening an outlet that hopes to sell a service into the local community - to whit a members' club - rather than helping the community to "become better", unless you take refurbing a railway arch owned by a property company to be a service to the local community that improves the local community, rather than the local retail environment.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

footballerslegs said:


> Christ almighty. The world is a big place. OTC is aiming itself at a certain demographic as the Marquis of Lorne (my local and favourite pub in the world) caters for another. OK, the idea of attracting an ‘exclusive’ crowd is pretty distasteful whichever way you look at it, but the way Jennie’s been crucified feels pretty lazy imo. Even sadder is that if she hadn’t have posted, OTC would have been criticised for not engaging with U75. So damned if you do and all that. I like U75 but I hope Jennie sees that many of the replies to her post are from people that would never have been interested in OTC anyway, and that her post simply allowed them the space to vent about it.



TBF, what I've taken issue with is the sales-speak and the petulance.  I'm not on one side or t'other of any exclusivity argument, I just think it's at the very least naive to ramble on about your venture's wonderfulness/uniqueness/whatever and not expect criticism or a checking of your claims.  I mean, "help the community become better".  What the buggering crikey does that mean, in the context of assisting/supporting/aiding the local community?  It's a business outlet!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Do you do food? Herne Hill could do with a place that does a bottled beer and a decent jacket potato.



No baked beans in here, sunshine!


----------



## Badgers (May 6, 2014)

MrSki said:
			
		

> Is it possible to be in awe of a sausage roll?
> 
> I actually prefer pork pies. Melton Mowbray if your interested with a bit of English mustard.



I agree. That said a pork pie is limited to being served cold. The sausage roll is heat-flexible.


----------



## MrSki (May 6, 2014)

Badgers said:


> I agree. That said a pork pie is limited to being served cold. The sausage roll is heat-flexible.


Pork pies or scotch eggs are good bar food because they don't need to be heated up.


----------



## Badgers (May 6, 2014)

MrSki said:
			
		

> Pork pies or scotch eggs are good bar food because they don't need to be heated up.



You are not wrong there. However life under the arches can get nippy in winter. A warm sausage roll is no bad thing in such times.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

editor said:


> A private, members-only club with an annual membership fee would be just about _the very last place_ I'd want to hang out in, and it would also be just about the last place to find anything remotely like the "the old Brixton I knew and loved."
> 
> There's still enough friendly, _inclusive_ places places to be found, so I'm not going to be tempted to buy into exclusivity.



In my experience, membership bars used to be very much more a cultural thing, with each social class having their own (generally women-excluding) own versions.  Nowadays, except for a few exceptions, they seem to be very much a middle-class aspirational thing - you'll never get membership at the Carlton or Whites, so go for one where "like-minded others" will accumulate.


----------



## Athos (May 6, 2014)

I don't think she expected that amount of stick, and reacted badly, which caused an escalation.

But, some measured points were made by people who are her target market e.g. regular drinkers with disposable income. However, her response was either defensive or to simply implore the critics to attend, rather than addressing people's legitimate concerns.

Although I am instinctively turned off by idea, I wish her no ill. I just think it's a shame she didn't think more about the business model, and about how she'd present it here.

I can see that she may have been forced into the members' club thing by licensing issues, but there was no need to embrace it to that extent. It could have been a £10 on the door for your first visit, which automatically means you're a member for six months. If they want to foster that sense of belonging, they could easily offer an upgrade to 'gold membership' which would entitle the bearer to attend special events, a discount on drinks on a Thursday night, discount on furniture, quick access via a separate entrance, the ability to keep a bottle behind the bar (so you can drink half one night and half the next), priority booking of tables, an annual outing, reciprocal entry to other venues etc.

That way, nobody would be excluded (at least no more than any other bar you pay to go in), but you would generate a clubby vibe through incentivising regulars, without having to resort to snobbery.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

Belushi said:


> I'd quite like to join an exclusive members club, but not one run by some chancers flogging overpriced bottles of beer and upcycled tat in a railway arch in Herne Hill.
> 
> I'd want to belong to one of those real Gentlemen's clubs in St James's.  Deep leather chairs and mahogany tables, stuffed Rhino heads on the wall, Rowley Birkin QC very very drunk in the corner : thumbs:



Had a mate whose dad worked at one (the one that is full of Tory MPs past and present).  He reckoned it was only the fact that his dad used to come home and spend 2 hours whacking a heavy-bag before sitting down with the family that stopped the old fella killing some of the members, they were so arrogant and rude.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

editor said:


> Have to say it looks a bit...



It's cheaper to interior-clad with corrugated steel sheet, than to sandblast and re-point several hundred square meters of brick.
It does look a bit like the illegitimate offspring of an Anderson shelter and a Nissen hut, though!


----------



## Crispy (May 6, 2014)

It's also close to impossible to "waterproof" a railway arch. That steel sheet's primary job is to keep the water out.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> Bless you for making the world righteous..your a true warrior.



Is that a euphemism for "you're a dicksplash"?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

Rushy said:


> The bottles thing is misleading I guess. Kegs take space and maintenance. They're starting out DIY and I can see why you'd avoid it to begin with. I'd imagine they would get introduced eventually if there was demand - which I expect there would be.



Cellerage is usually a bit of a problem in arches too.  Not an issue so much with nitrokeg, but serious beers need the right conditions.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> It's also close to impossible to "waterproof" a railway arch. That steel sheet's primary job is to keep the water out.



Or at least off the customers/members.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> As with any new venture you have a plan and then, if you're sensible,  you adjust the plan if it's not working out.   Like that famous Scottish venue with its Scottish music that all us Scots and Scotophiles were going to populate every Saturday night, in our kilts.



Khans?


----------



## Rushy (May 6, 2014)

Greebo


----------



## Winot (May 6, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> TBF, what I've taken issue with is the sales-speak and the petulance.  I'm not on one side or t'other of any exclusivity argument, I just think it's at the very least naive to ramble on about your venture's wonderfulness/uniqueness/whatever and not expect criticism or a checking of your claims.  I mean, "help the community become better".  What the buggering crikey does that mean, in the context of assisting/supporting/aiding the local community?  It's a business outlet!



Exactly right.


----------



## Supine (May 6, 2014)

They should do a Wednesday Ladies Night


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> It's also close to impossible to "waterproof" a railway arch. That steel sheet's primary job is to keep the water out.



I worked in an arch once - a storage facility for stuff the OB had seized as evidence.  It was like a fridge all year round.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 6, 2014)

Supine said:


> They should do a Wednesday Ladies Night



"Ladies' Night" or "Laydeez night"?


----------



## salem (May 6, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Is that a euphemism for "you're a dicksplash"?


Now there's a great word I've not heard in a while!


----------



## Smick (May 6, 2014)

Crispy said:


> It's also close to impossible to "waterproof" a railway arch. That steel sheet's primary job is to keep the water out.


 Makes sense. I thought exposed brickwork would be fairly cool for what they are trying to achieve.


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 6, 2014)

So we going on Thursday night or what


----------



## Jadep324 (May 6, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> We could... but then it becomes about why i'd want to spend my money somewhere that doesn't want us there on a friday or saturday.
> 
> If you set up your stall saying 'we only want some of you on the busiest nights, but when we're more hard up for trade we'll let the others in', you can't be surprised when 'the others' feel a bit reluctant to co-operate.


You can go on a Friday and Saturday until 6 o'clock so how is that not somewhere that doesn't want you!


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2014)

Jadep324 said:


> You can go on a Friday and Saturday until 6 o'clock so how is that not somewhere that doesn't want you!


How indeed!?


----------



## Jadep324 (May 6, 2014)

Sounds to me like all of you are whinging about a tenner for a place that isn't in the market for pints. Obviously if you read the sign it's wine & cheese - if you don't want to go don't go - they're clearly saying there's a month to go and check it out and if it appeals to you then maybe membership is something you want to be a part of. Other than that it just sounds like everyone moaning on here couldn't afford to drink at a place like that (or any other place that specialises in wine and live music) so why are you bitching? I've heard whetherspoons doesn't have a cover charge! Shocking to see so much hating on a new place and HH needs new places. I bet they don't want people who act the way some people have been talking on here in the bar anyway and I wouldn't want to drink with you either.


----------



## ddraig (May 6, 2014)

Jadep324 said:


> Sounds to me like all of you are whinging about a tenner for a place that isn't in the market for pints. Obviously if you read the sign it's wine & cheese - if you don't want to go don't go - they're clearly saying there's a month to go and check it out and if it appeals to you then maybe membership is something you want to be a part of. Other than that it just sounds like everyone moaning on here couldn't afford to drink at a place like that (or any other place that specialises in wine and live music) so why are you bitching? I've heard whetherspoons doesn't have a cover charge! Shocking to see so much hating on a new place and HH needs new places. I bet they don't want people who act the way some people have been talking on here in the bar anyway and I wouldn't want to drink with you either.


sister of Jennie's or mate?


----------



## Belushi (May 6, 2014)

Is this Jen's Mum?


----------



## Jadep324 (May 6, 2014)

No 


Belushi said:


> Is this Jen's Mum? [/QUOT just someone who likes to state a good bar! Clearly you can't afford a tenner enjoy wetherspoons
> 
> 
> ddraig said:
> ...


----------



## ddraig (May 6, 2014)

oh and Jadep324 how rude is your post saying people are hating and bitching?!?
there has been loads of good advice here too, stuff it would take you years to figure out if ever.
and if you are too involved in the bar then way to go to alienate more peeps init 

e2a - you might as well call people poor with your spoons slur too!
very rude


----------



## Jadep324 (May 6, 2014)

And please tell me how I am involved in the bar, I went Friday and thought it was an amazing atmosphere! You's are the ones missing out  


ddraig said:


> oh and Jadep324 how rude is your post saying people are hating and bitching?!?
> there has been loads of good advice here too, stuff it would take you years to figure out if ever.
> and if you are too involved in the bar then way to go to alienate more peeps init


----------



## twistedAM (May 6, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> If you can't take criticism, you really shouldn't be in any sort of "customer-facing" (as the eejits now call it) role, because you'll succumb to either depression or violence in very short order, you have to be able to just shrug it off.



That's why a breed of people known as PR consultants exist. I'd have thought a business like this would have seen the hiring of such a person as a necessary evil. For a start they would have given them tips about posting on messageboards.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 6, 2014)




----------



## Anna.123 (May 6, 2014)

I agree with jadep324, all the haters clearly can't afford a tenner to check out something new!


----------



## Anna.123 (May 6, 2014)

And let's be fair, it's free untill June! So if yous didn't like it am sure they have a door for you to leave comfortably


----------



## Belushi (May 6, 2014)

Oh do fuck off Jen


----------



## Blagsta (May 6, 2014)

Anna.123 said:


> I agree with jadep324, all the haters clearly can't afford a tenner to check out something new!



Transparent.


----------



## ddraig (May 6, 2014)

Jadep324 said:


> And please tell me how I am involved in the bar, I went Friday and thought it was an amazing atmosphere! You's are the ones missing out


too poor and hating bitches that you don't want to drink with? or hey you're missing out, it's amazing, YOU SHOULD GO?


----------



## colacubes (May 6, 2014)

Anna.123 said:


> I agree with jadep324, all the haters clearly can't afford a tenner to check out something new!



(((poor people)))


----------



## quimcunx (May 6, 2014)

Jadep324 said:


> And please tell me how I am involved in the bar, I went Friday and thought it was an amazing atmosphere!* You's* are the ones missing out





Anna.123 said:


> And let's be fair, it's free untill June! So if *yous *didn't like it am sure they have a door for you to leave comfortably



Interesting linguistic quirk shared by Jade and Anna.


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2014)

Jadep324 said:


> Sounds to me like all of you are whinging about a tenner for a place that isn't in the market for pints. Obviously if you read the sign it's wine & cheese - if you don't want to go don't go - they're clearly saying there's a month to go and check it out and if it appeals to you then maybe membership is something you want to be a part of. Other than that it just sounds like everyone moaning on here couldn't afford to drink at a place like that (or any other place that specialises in wine and live music) so why are you bitching? I've heard whetherspoons doesn't have a cover charge! Shocking to see so much hating on a new place and HH needs new places. I bet they don't want people who act the way some people have been talking on here in the bar anyway and I wouldn't want to drink with you either.



It would be nice to think that the only people disagreeing are embittered poor people, i suppose.  I mean 'nice for you', rather than 'makes you a nice person', clearly...  but it just isn't true.  Several of the people posting here are locals with decent disposable income.  Some of them even (shock horror) drink wine in preference to beer - and you should see the cheese consumption when a group of urbanites get together.  No really.  We were crazy for the cheese at a barbecue on sunday, and bookgroups could get sponsored by a local dairy, so much of the stuff gets put away...  we are not wine-and-cheese averse... or not anywhere near all of us.  It isn't (just) the refreshments.

But if a place sets out its stall by saying that part of the reason they have a paid membership system is so they can engineer the clientele, which is what Jennie's OP essentially said... then they can't be surprised when people take against that attitude to commerce. 

Jennie doesn't owe us anything: she and her partner will merrily go ahead and do what they like.  But a business like this is a public enterprise and the public will say what they like about it.  And we have.  And we will.


----------



## Smick (May 6, 2014)

435 replies in 24 hours.

I think it was Oscar Wilde who in The Portrait of Dorian Gray who said something like the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

With that in mind, Jennie has done her job. A lot more people are now aware of exactly what OTC is.


----------



## Smick (May 6, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> Interesting linguistic quirk shared by both Jade and Anna.


 
Quite Norn Iron to be honest. I speak that way but don't write it.


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> Interesting linguistic quirk shared by both Jade and Anna.


I wonder if this is actually a clever anti-OTC troll...  the "anyone opposing us must be scummy povvos" line is hardly showering the OTC in glory!


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> Quite Norn Iron to be honest. I speak that way but don't write it.


Also known in Scouse dialects among others, but it's quite the coincidence in two, brand new, completely unrelated posters who just happened to register at the same time and just happen to make their maiden posts on this thread...


----------



## leanderman (May 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> 435 replies in 24 hours.
> 
> A lot more people are now aware of exactly what OTC is.



As fearlessly as I checked out Champagne + Fromage for these boards, I shall visit this curious place on Thursday.


----------



## Yelkcub (May 6, 2014)

Initial sympathy for small business being lambasted by anti-nu-Brixxy peeps peeps, blown away by ridiculous sock-puppetry. If you're dim enough to think no-one knows it's you on multiple logins, Christ knows how you are running a business.


----------



## equationgirl (May 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> Quite Norn Iron to be honest. I speak that way but don't write it.


It's also a West of Scotland quirk.


----------



## quimcunx (May 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> Quite Norn Iron to be honest. I speak that way but don't write it.



As spangles says, it's the coincidence.


----------



## Anna.123 (May 6, 2014)

colacubes said:


> (((poor people)))


Maybe it will encourage peop


Belushi said:


> Oh do fuck off Jen


this


quimcunx said:


> Interesting linguistic quirk shared by both Jade and Anna.


Very similar mind


spanglechick said:


> It would be nice to think that the only people disagreeing are embittered poor people, i suppose.  I mean 'nice for you', rather than 'makes you a nice person', clearly...  but it just isn't true.  Several of the people posting here are locals with decent disposable income.  Some of them even (shock horror) drink wine in preference to beer - and you should see the cheeze consumption when a group of urbanites get together.  No really.  We were crazy for the cheese at a barbecue on sunday, and bookgroups could get sponsored by a local dairy, so much of the stuff gets put away...  we are not wine-and-cheese averse... or not anywhere near all of us.  It isn't (just) the refreshments.
> 
> But if a place sets out it's stall by saying that part of the reason they have a paid membership system is so they can engineer the clientele, which is what Jennie's OP essentially said... then they can't be surprised when people take against that attitude to commerce.
> 
> Jennie doesn't owe us anything: she and her partner will merrily go ahead and do what they like.  But a business like this is a public enterprise and the public will say what they like about it.  And we have.  And we will.


clearly some people(YOU!) live boring life's to sit on this site and hate on a upcoming bar that you have never been to, boring, enjoy wasting your time, deleting account


----------



## quimcunx (May 6, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> We were crazy for the cheese at a barbecue on sunday,


Fortnum and Mason cheese and crackers, I'll have you know.


----------



## killer b (May 6, 2014)

ooh, this thread has it all doesn't it? 

I read an interesting article about gentrification the other day, saying it's an inevitable artefact of modern capitalism rather than the hipsters' fault. I'll see if I can dig it out.


----------



## Smick (May 6, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> As spangles says, it's the coincidence.


 
I think it is someone with better English trying to write badly.

Still, good on Jen for coming back for a bit of a scrap. No point in taking it on the chin.

I'm just not sure whether to mention u75 if I go in.


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2014)

Anna.123 said:


> Maybe it will encourage peop
> 
> this
> 
> ...


lives.

*That's* how boring I am, my little puppet of socks.  I'm fucking literacy-marking your posts.

So it's the ketamonkey wreckheads the OTC is after, is it?  Rather than the professional weekend wine-drinkers?  Ahh, well...  not for me after all.


----------



## Dan U (May 6, 2014)

Is there a baby change?


----------



## Badgers (May 6, 2014)

Is there disabled access?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Is this Jen's Mum?



It's Jen.


----------



## quimcunx (May 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> I think it is someone with better English trying to write badly.



Maybe.  Or maybe they have thrown some pennies at a couple of street urchins to come and do some ad hoc PR.


----------



## spanglechick (May 6, 2014)

quimcunx said:


> Maybe.  Or maybe they have thrown some pennies at a couple of street urchins to come and do some ad hoc PR.


street urchins who assume critics are all too poor for the bar?


----------



## Greebo (May 6, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Greebo smash?


How dare you accuse me of being so unsubtle!  I'll have you know that on Tuesdays, after a hard evening of mangling compound consonants and byzantine grammar, I'm the sweetest so and so around.  

And anyone who says otherwise had better duck or start running.


----------



## quimcunx (May 6, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> street urchins who assume critics are all too poor for the bar?



Maybe they are rich street urchins.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 6, 2014)

Anna.123 said:


> And let's be fair, it's free untill June! So if yous didn't like it am sure they have a door for you to leave comfortably



The prole door, the members door or the round window?


----------



## twistedAM (May 6, 2014)

Smick said:


> Quite Norn Iron to be honest. I speak that way but don't write it.



Aye, me too but when I do see it written it's usually spelt youse


----------



## cuppa tee (May 6, 2014)

_


leanderman said:



			As fearlessly as I checked out Champagne + Fromage for these boards, I shall visit this curious place on Thursday.
		
Click to expand...


you might want to dress so you don't stand out too much.....






_


----------



## marty21 (May 6, 2014)

any plans for a Hackney branch?


----------



## Smick (May 6, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> Aye, me too but when I do see it written it's usually spelt youse


 
Yeah, or maybe yis or yiz. Yousens aswell.

I find it difficult to write you when I mean you plural and leave it at that.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 6, 2014)

killer b said:


> ooh, this thread has it all doesn't it?
> 
> I read an interesting article about gentrification the other day, saying it's an inevitable artefact of modern capitalism rather than the hipsters' fault. I'll see if I can dig it out.



Neil Smith?

It really isn't the hipsters fault tbf.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 6, 2014)

I don't think anyone has mentioned gentrification on this thread actually - maybe because it's Herne Hill rather than Brixton and that ship has well and truly sailed.


----------



## killer b (May 6, 2014)

no, but it's spectre has haunted the thread nevertheless. 

it's this: http://www.theatlanticcities.com/housing/2014/04/theres-basically-no-way-not-be-gentrifier/8877/


----------



## Winot (May 6, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> _
> 
> 
> you might want to dress so you don't stand out too much.....
> ...



He's ahead of you...



leanderman said:


> But it's not in Brixton, it's Herne Hill.
> 
> They do things differently there according, at least, to this poster I saw in the Florence pub yesterday


----------



## se5 (May 6, 2014)

Hmm I'm slightly confused - have they opened yet? 

It seems their licensing application is at http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Application_Club1756.pdf - with a licence start date of 1/5/2014  but this is out for consultation until 20 May so presumably not granted. If you look at the app she has signed it as being submitted on 22/05/2014 ?? 

Interesting range of music being proposed - "The types of music we plan on featuring are retro, folk and house music"

Plus pedant's point: she doesnt seem to know the difference between licence (noun) and license (verb)


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 6, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Beautiful pub indeed. But it's not open late. And when I said I want something less hectic - that does not mean dour and lifeless - which I am afraid has always been my experience of that pub. How it survives is beyond me.


It IS open late - I'll have to check but I think it's 12 every night, 1am on a Thurs and 2 or 3am on Fri and Sat.

It survives because it has a loyal and dedicated customer base, most of whom live in the streets near to the pub. New blood always welcome!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 6, 2014)

se5 said:


> Hmm I'm slightly confused - have they opened yet?
> 
> It seems their licensing application is at http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Application_Club1756.pdf - with a licence start date of 1/5/2014  but this is out for consultation until 20 May so presumably not granted. If you look at the app she has signed it as being submitted on 22/05/2014 ??
> 
> ...


Well spotted. Though I guess they could have a few temporary event licences to allow them to open early.


----------



## leanderman (May 7, 2014)

se5 said:


> Plus pedant's point: she doesnt seem to know the difference between licence (noun) and license (verb)



A common mistake, made by a bigger operator nearby and one the Americans sensibly sidestep.


----------



## gabi (May 7, 2014)

Dan U said:


> Is there a baby change?



Always a sign that it's a bar you want to be nowhere near. Altho given their target demographic of smug middle class fuckwits I wouldn't be surprised if there is.


----------



## Dan U (May 7, 2014)

gabi said:


> Always a sign that it's a bar you want to be nowhere near. Altho given their target demographic of smug middle class fuckwits I wouldn't be surprised if there is.



I thought you'd like em, those tables are a good flat surface


----------



## doddles (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I got locked in that building during a pre-auction viewing. I was down in the basement when they locked up and buggered off. I had  to get a passer by to call the agents .


Surely that deserves free membership...


----------



## doddles (May 7, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> "we wear hats and the like - just be cool" is my fave line ever on Urban said without any hint of irony....I actually had to get up and walk around the block to stop laughing.....


I shat myself laughing. No, really, I did*.

*Fortunately I was reading Urban on the toilet at the time.


----------



## doddles (May 7, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I do fancy a bit of cheese now though....


Let me purvey you some...


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

doddles said:


> Surely that deserves free membership...


The knitting shop in the background, not the arch .
I might not get the best value out of a knitting membership - even a free one.


----------



## pesh (May 7, 2014)

they've stuck a bit of wood over the front of a railway arch and now it's the fucking Groucho club?


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2014)

gabi said:


> Always a sign that it's a bar you want to be nowhere near. Altho given their target demographic of smug middle class fuckwits I wouldn't be surprised if there is.


there's one round here with a "pram park" which is just the end of the bar


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2014)

have you had a libel threat yet editor ?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 7, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Sausage rolls too proletarian for you?


The do amazing sausage rolls at the Royal Court Theatre....


----------



## Smick (May 7, 2014)

I had a sausage roll in the Harrods food hall. It was massive, fucking lovely and, at £2.50, the same price as a mediocre one at the Herne Hill market.

Unfortunately my 4 year old daughter is developing my love of them too. I inherited it off my dad.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

I think the prejudice shown against the humble sausage roll by these off the cuffers truly demonstrates their lack of commitment to providing a fully diverse and inclusive experience.

Save the Sausage Roll!


----------



## colacubes (May 7, 2014)

Everyone knows that the best sausage rolls are from Greggs ffs


----------



## 5t3IIa (May 7, 2014)

Supine said:


> I quite like the concept but this thread is lesson 101 in how not to promote it.
> 
> It needs to grow organically via word of mouth to work. It  also needs the members to feel genuinely part of the running of the place. It sounds like they are just paying a cover charge for nights they won't necessarily go to.


I don't get how it's called 'soft launch' but we weren't invited, like as South London's premier online gathering place for people who like music and cheese and shit.


----------



## xenon (May 7, 2014)

Best bit on the thread is the "We wear hats. Just be cool."  

I care not for chese bars and there are plenty of places I can't afford to go. So it goes. But wank talk, and self agrandising doing works for the community shit... You're selling bottled beer and chese FFS.  Now that's something I can chuck a metaphorical brick at.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 7, 2014)

xenon said:


> You're selling bottled beer and chese FFS.


...and furniture
Don't forget the furniture.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> ...and furniture
> Don't forget the furniture.



no sausage rolls though.

they're racist against sausage rolls.


----------



## xenon (May 7, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> ...and furniture
> Don't forget the furniture.



Oops. I missed that.. You mean they actually have chairs and stuff? That's pretty cool.


----------



## doddles (May 7, 2014)

Maybe they could sell artisanal saucijzenbroodje - uniquely sourced from a charming little back-alley bakker in a part of Amsterdam that only the locals know about.


----------



## tommers (May 7, 2014)

What a bunch of cunts.

Not the theatre royal.


----------



## Greebo (May 7, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Everyone knows that the best sausage rolls are from Greggs ffs


Nah mate - you can get even better if you buy the Greggs ones from Iceland to bake at home.


----------



## Supine (May 7, 2014)

At least if you wake up hung over with a new sofa in the house you could work out where you went.


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 7, 2014)

Supine said:


> At least if you wake up hung over with a new sofa in the house you could work out where you went.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 7, 2014)

Genius


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> View attachment 53480


Furniture styled tapas.
Truly a first.


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Furniture styled tapas.
> Truly a first.


Well there's a niche in the market


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

Mixing alcohol and furniture presents a real risk of shelf harming.


----------



## Ms Ordinary (May 7, 2014)

Blimey what a thread! I'd never have joined this new place simply because I don't go out often enough to warrant a membership*. But it didn't sound _that_ awful (idiotic stuff like having full-on security in the badlands of Herne Hill aside) & I was quite prepared to find out that there might be some good reason for having membership.

But this thread has just left me feeling I probably wouldn't much like the people running this place, whatever I thought about the venue itself (like plenty of people round here, sometimes I'm in the mood for a bit of gentrified Herne Hill & sometimes I'm not), and they probably wouldn't like me - bit of a bad taste all round really, I'd rather not be slapped in the face with knowing this shit .

*I haven't joined Whirled Cinema for much the same reason - other commitments simply don't allow me to go & see a film often enough, much as I'd love to - but I still think Whirled are great (I used to go now & again when they were starting out, and I still recommend it to people) & I can understand why they have membership now.


----------



## Ms Ordinary (May 7, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I'd imagine it'll pull in a mostly comfortably well off crowd (as does WC). £10 a month? It's hardly millionaire territory.
> 
> As for the comparison with Whirled cinema - you pay your membership, and yes you get to see a film for free each week. You aren't obliged to spend anything at the bar, but most people do (and indeed it's stated as a kind of etiquette that you do use the bar sometimes as that's what makes the operation viable).
> 
> ...



Though Whirled started out with no membership - & ran that way for quite a while. I've no idea whether they always had it in mind to move on to a membership basis, but by the time they did they had plenty of goodwill, & it seemed a logical, organic thing to do based on how popular they'd become.

OTC do seem a just a bit too sold on the whole exclusivity thing for my liking - though that just made it not my kind of place, rather than somewhere I actively disliked until they started trying to explain why...



teuchter said:


> It was clear that most people wanted to assume the worst about her intentions, as is so often the case on urban75.



Plenty of truth in this, but the owners own-goaled themselves with their falling apart under criticism.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

Bet they wish they'd had a hard launch now. That woulda shown us!!!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2014)

Anna.123 said:


> I agree with jadep324, all the haters clearly can't afford a tenner to check out something new!



Your momma couldn't afford the tenner it would have cost to buy you some manners.


----------



## snowy_again (May 7, 2014)

Infamy infamy: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...565780.-2207520000.1399464107.&type=3&theater


----------



## teuchter (May 7, 2014)

Ms Ordinary said:


> Plenty of truth in this, but the owners own-goaled themselves with their falling apart under criticism.



I imagine they have had an extended period of little sleep and much stress trying to get everything done and sorted. If they've invested heavily in something, emotionally and financially, and have so far had a positive response to what they're doing, it's not really surprising that they crumbled when suddenly confronted by an aggressive internet mob having a go at them in public.


----------



## wurlycurly (May 7, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I imagine they have had an extended period of little sleep and much stress trying to get everything done and sorted. If they've invested heavily in something, emotionally and financially, and have so far had a positive response to what they're doing, it's not really surprising that they crumbled when suddenly confronted by an aggressive internet mob having a go at them in public.


They've come across as precisely the sort of people I'd like to avoid when I'm drinking. Win-win; save myself £100.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2014)

Dan U said:


> Is there a baby change?



You want to swap your nipper for one who cries less, guvnor?  Fifty of your modern squids!


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 7, 2014)

Anna.123 said:


> Maybe it will encourage peop
> 
> this
> 
> ...


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Is there disabled access?



Yes, a broken door.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 7, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I imagine they have had an extended period of little sleep and much stress trying to get everything done and sorted. If they've invested heavily in something, emotionally and financially, and have so far had a positive response to what they're doing, it's not really surprising that they crumbled when suddenly confronted by an aggressive internet mob having a go at them in public.


Or this is the first time they've ever been criticised and it can be quite a shock to realise that not everyone thinks you're fantastic...it comes to us all!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2014)

I've been to hernia hill- it looks like the sort of place where people would pay 4 quid for a bottle of beer.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> The do amazing sausage rolls at the Royal Court Theatre....



IIRC the Royal Court has been refurbished twice since I last went there.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2014)

xenon said:


> Best bit on the thread is the "We wear hats. Just be cool."



I, on the other hand, wear hats because one of my medications makes my skin a bit photo-sensitive, so I sunburn even in moderate sunlight.  The fact that my hats are well cool, and I look stylish with them on is merely a bonus. 



> I care not for chese bars and there are plenty of places I can't afford to go. So it goes. But wank talk, and self agrandising doing works for the community shit... You're selling bottled beer and chese FFS.  Now that's something I can chuck a metaphorical brick at.



If you chucked actual bricks, they'd probably stack them, stick a board across them, and use the resulting assemblage as a "found object" table.


----------



## Ms Ordinary (May 7, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I imagine they have had an extended period of little sleep and much stress trying to get everything done and sorted. If they've invested heavily in something, emotionally and financially, and have so far had a positive response to what they're doing, it's not really surprising that they crumbled when suddenly confronted by an aggressive internet mob having a go at them in public.



Actually I thought this too, which is why I steered clear of posting this thread over the weekend, though it made fascinating reading.

Less inclined to think so once they'd seemed to a have a good kip & come back as two different people - but ready to be proved wrong on that.


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 7, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Or this is the first time they've ever been criticised and it can be quite a shock to realise that not everyone thinks you're fantastic...it comes to us all!


There selected patrons think it's wonderful.


----------



## crustychick (May 7, 2014)

there weren't many people in there on the photos they posted on FB for their opening weekend... wonder how popular it actually was!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

It's amaze-balls...they said so!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2014)

amazeballs is totes all one word


----------



## tommers (May 7, 2014)

Ms Ordinary said:


> Plenty of truth in this, but the owners own-goaled themselves with their falling apart under criticism.



I read the first ten pages and thought they actually held up very well.   The mob was in full effect and the slightest thing they said was picked up on. 

They tried to explain their thinking and got dog's abuse over and over again. 

Seems to happen a lot.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 7, 2014)

You know...it will proably end up being a roaring success...


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 7, 2014)

tommers said:


> I read the first ten pages and thought they actually held up very well.   The mob was in full effect and the slightest thing they said was picked up on.
> 
> They tried to explain their thinking and got dog's abuse over and over again.
> 
> Seems to happen a lot.


 
I don't think there's anything you could call abuse until well into the thread personally. Criticism, absolutely, but I don't see anything wrong with that.


----------



## Badgers (May 7, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:
			
		

> You know...it will proably end up being a roaring success...



My prediction.... 

It will go well for a while and people that pop along out of curiosity will talk about getting membership. Then their busy lives will take over and they won't go for a while. Then they will want to go back but remember that they need to be a member and won't bother as they have busy lives.

Instead they will copy recipes from celebrity chefs and stay home weeknights with bottles of 'reduced' wine from a (probably M&S or Waitrose) supermarket while listening to the latest Artic Monkeys album. On weekends they will go to the bars near their offices or near a train station talking about another new bar that is opening soon and the next vibe.


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

tommers said:


> I read the first ten pages and thought they actually held up very well.   The mob was in full effect and the slightest thing they said was picked up on.
> 
> They tried to explain their thinking and got dog's abuse over and over again.
> 
> Seems to happen a lot.


They struggled to get across what they meant by exclusivity - probably have good idea in their head about a particular vibe and a feeling, which they had not previously been challenged on or been asked to explain - and Urban took the opportunity to kind of define it for them. Then the usual "you just want to exclude the poor, how dare you not position yourselves as affordable, think you're better than me, do you?" drivel started to gush - at which point they understandably became overly defensive and it was all over. Some of their banter is self satisfied and lacking in self awareness but if you constantly called everyone lacking self awareness a cunt, you'd develop tourettes.

That said, the hats line, as so many have pointed out, was a thing of comedy legend.


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2014)

and the poverty slurs?


----------



## tommers (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> That said, the hats line, as so many have pointed out, was a thing of comedy legend.



That was brilliant but even with that I can kind of see what they were saying.  "is there a dress code?" "No,  you can wear what you like, even hats,  whatever". 

Weird, but kind of understandable.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 7, 2014)

TBH if they hadn't started off by gushing about how their bar was a great thing for the community they'd probably have been fine (well, ish). If you're going to claim that then it's probably best to have some sort of idea what you mean.


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

tommers said:


> That was brilliant but even with that I can kind of see what they were saying.  "is there a dress code?" "No,  you can wear what you like, even hats,  whatever".
> 
> Weird, but kind of understandable.


Totally. But hilarious all the same.


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2014)

and the poverty slurs?


----------



## tommers (May 7, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> TBH if they hadn't started off by gushing about how their bar was a great thing for the community they'd probably have been fine (well, ish). If you're going to claim that then it's probably best to have some sort of idea what you mean.



Oh come off it.  As soon as they said it was £10 membership it was all over.  In fact as soon as they said it was members only.


----------



## tommers (May 7, 2014)

ddraig said:


> and the poverty slurs?



What were they?


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2014)

didn't you read the thread?


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> TBH if they hadn't started off by gushing about how their bar was a great thing for the community they'd probably have been fine (well, ish). If you're going to claim that then it's probably best to have some sort of idea what you mean.


But do you really think they were claiming to be solving deep social issues; or just wanting to be a part of what was going on locally in what they felt was a positive way. Community is an overused word meaning at the same time so much and so little. On here it is a trigger. They didn't know that.


----------



## leanderman (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> But do you really think they were claiming to be solving deep social issues; or just wanting to be a part of what was going on locally in what they felt was a positive way. Community is an overused word meaning at the same time so much and so little. On here it is a trigger. They didn't know that.



Yes: By paying some rates, employing a few people, buying goods and services etc, they will be making some sort of contribution to the area. Which may be what they meant by 'community'.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 7, 2014)

tommers said:


> Oh come off it.  As soon as they said it was £10 membership it was all over.  In fact as soon as they said it was members only.


 
I did say 'ish.'


----------



## buscador (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> But do you really think they were claiming to be solving deep social issues; or just wanting to be a part of what was going on locally in what they felt was a positive way. Community is an overused word meaning at the same time so much and so little. On here it is a trigger. They didn't know that.



But they didn't explain what they meant, didn't answer any of the points raised and just squealed louder and louder that this was their business plan before telling people they weren't welcome. 

Do people marketing a new business really not look at where and to whom they are advertising and then tailor what they say to that audience?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> But do you really think they were claiming to be solving deep social issues; or just wanting to be a part of what was going on locally in what they felt was a positive way. Community is an overused word meaning at the same time so much and so little. On here it is a trigger. They didn't know that.


 
Like I said, I don't think they knew what they meant. I do agree that community is often a much abused word, but it's extremely contentious for good reasons. I think people are entitled to question the assumptions that underpin the idea that a nice new bar is just what a community needs, which is all I see here.


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2014)

so Rushy it obviously doesn't bother you then, the poverty slurs
telling


----------



## kittyP (May 7, 2014)

Anna.123 said:
			
		

> Maybe it will encourage peop
> 
> this
> 
> ...



Didn't the original poster/jenny use the term "hate on" too?


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

buscador said:


> But they didn't explain what they meant, didn't answer any of the points raised and just squealed louder and louder that this was their business plan before telling people they weren't welcome.
> 
> Do people marketing a new business really not look at where and to whom they are advertising and then tailor what they say to that audience?


Yeah - they are not the best at expressing themselves, I'll give you that. I don't think they squealed any louder than anyone else on here though - they got pissed off and upset and over reacted to a bunch of aggressive strangers over reacting. And so their business plan probably has a gaping hole in it and they are blind to it - so what?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Totally. But hilarious all the same.



I still burst out laughing when I think about it....it's my happy thought that stops me committing suicide!


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Like I said, I don't think they knew what they meant. I do agree that community is often a much abused word, but it's extremely contentious for good reasons. I think people are entitled to question the assumptions that underpin the idea that a nice new bar is just what a community needs, which is all I see here.


Are you arguing that a new bar would be bad for the community? Or that you would have liked to see them put their efforts into something else?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 7, 2014)

tommers said:


> As soon as they said it was £10 membership it was all over.


It's £100 membership isn't it?


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> It's £100 membership isn't it?


£10/month - and you can take out just one month - or £100/year.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Everything new creates controversy and we understand that. #otcbar



She said she understood....?


----------



## tommers (May 7, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> It's £100 membership isn't it?



You can buy a year at a time for 100. Or pay 10 on the door for a Friday or Saturday night (and the month after,  presumably)


----------



## DotCommunist (May 7, 2014)

4 quid bottled beers, tenner entry fee- sounds awesome


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> 4 quid bottled beers, tenner entry fee- sounds awesome



It's exclusive you know?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

tommers said:


> You can buy a year at a time for 100. Or pay 10 on the door for a Friday or Saturday night (and the month after,  presumably)



And that doesn't just get you in, it gets you in sync!


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> And that doesn't just get you in, it gets you in sync!


Again, you are deliberately misinterpreting her. She meant it doesn't just get you in, it gets you


----------



## colacubes (May 7, 2014)

I will join if I get Justin Timberlake for £10/month tbf


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Are you arguing that a new bar would be bad for the community? Or that you would have liked to see them put their efforts into something else?


 
God, I'd bore everyone senseless if I started to answer that question properly, and I still probably wouldn't get to a real answer.

On a purely personal level I think it sounds shit. Whether it's bad for the community - my shortest version is probably 'more symptom than cause.'


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

colacubes said:


> I will join if I get Justin Timberlake for £10/month tbf


Am I the last person in the world not to realise he was in Nsync?


----------



## teuchter (May 7, 2014)

ddraig said:


> and the poverty slurs?




They started on page 3 with this post:



poptyping said:


> You've admitted that you dont want the povos in your bar. Thats what ppl find objectionable. #disingenuous



- with someone desperately trying to read "poverty slurs" into what the woman had said up till then. It was clear that the answer certain people wanted, with regard to the memebership fee question, was that it would "keep the povos out" and therefore it was introduced into the conversation in this way, despite the OTC woman having already given various other reasons as to why they decided to have a membership charge.

It's the sort of thing you do, of course, all the time on here.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

I've found the hat I'm wearing on Thursday....


----------



## colacubes (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Am I the last person in the world not to realise he was in Nsync?



Clearly Grandad


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Clearly Grandad


More like


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I've found the hat I'm wearing on Thursday....



Please tell me those are available to buy?!


----------



## Supine (May 7, 2014)

Somebody needs to take one for the team and get down there. Full review on here please. And don't leave out any hat details.


----------



## mango5 (May 7, 2014)

Look who else joined the same day as our now-lurking OP (hello Jennie, hope you stick around these boards).
I do understand why a new name was quickly registered but I could help laughing at the old one.  Nice avatar pic of fun people having fun too


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 7, 2014)

Supine said:


> Somebody needs to take one for the team and get down there. Full review on here please. And don't leave out any hat details.


 
I believe leanderman has already heroically agreed to undertake a mission to the front.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

They were trying to storm the U75 Barricade and make us all In Sync with each other's vibe....and other awesome killer stuff...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Please tell me those are available to buy?!


http://www.vat19.com/dvds/beardo-original-beard-hat.cfm


----------



## Rushy (May 7, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> http://www.vat19.com/dvds/beardo-original-beard-hat.cfm


America has suddenly gone up in my estimation.


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2014)

teuchter said:


> They started on page 3 with this post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


don't be a disingenuous dick (It's the sort of thing you do, of course, all the time on here.)
as well you know i was referring to the posters involved or related to the bar using perceived lack of money as an insult


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 7, 2014)

teuchter said:


> They started on page 3 with this post:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Nice one touchy. Anyone who has actually read the OP knows exactly what she meant with all her exclusive, in sync guff.


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2014)

you mean anyone who has read it and not doing some weird contrary defence of the poshos game or trying to put up for the side they feel they are on or aspire to!


----------



## ddraig (May 7, 2014)

hey Ofcbarse24 what can't you be arsed about?


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Am I the last person in the world not to realise he was in Nsync?


No  I feel old now.


----------



## colacubes (May 7, 2014)

You lot aren't down with the kids are you


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2014)

tommers said:


> I read the first ten pages and thought they actually held up very well.   The mob was in full effect and the slightest thing they said was picked up on.
> 
> They tried to explain their thinking and got dog's abuse over and over again.
> 
> Seems to happen a lot.



Abuse?  I think you must be reading a different thread, or be a very delicate flower.


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 7, 2014)

colacubes said:


> You lot aren't down with the kids are you



Painful stuff.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2014)

Rushy said:


> But do you really think they were claiming to be solving deep social issues; or just wanting to be a part of what was going on locally in what they felt was a positive way. Community is an overused word meaning at the same time so much and so little. On here it is a trigger. They didn't know that.



They claimed that they were "helping the community to become better".  Not that many ways you can read that statement, are there, even given the abuse the word "community" is subjected to?


----------



## editor (May 7, 2014)

It's funny that some people have this notion that a new business - any business - is automatically 'good for the community.'


----------



## leanderman (May 7, 2014)

Just 70 pages to go to reach the pleonastic heights of the Champagne + Fromage thread.


----------



## prunus (May 7, 2014)

Well, I will be popping in sometime, as  although Jennie has come across rather poorly here to say the least a) it seems fair to have an actual visit, as it's very easy to find oneself misunderstood on the internet, b) as I said to take the opportunity to see if I can get in person an answer to my question and c) because tbh I'm curious to see what wines (and prices...) they have (look, I like wine, ok?)

Will certainly report back


----------



## teuchter (May 7, 2014)

ddraig said:


> you mean anyone who has read it and not doing some weird contrary defence of the poshos game or trying to put up for the side they feel they are on or aspire to!


There he goes again.


----------



## colacubes (May 7, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> Painful stuff.



That is a quality pop song my friend


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 7, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> It IS open late - I'll have to check but I think it's 12 every night, 1am on a Thurs and 2 or 3am on Fri and Sat.
> 
> It survives because it has a loyal and dedicated customer base, most of whom live in the streets near to the pub. New blood always welcome!


I checked to be sure and the Marquis is open til 12.30am every night and 1.30am on Fridays and Saturdays. 

Also, no membership fees. And we have furniture: little round tables. And a darts board and a pool table and a cards/dominoes table with green felt on top. And a free dukebox. And good "banter". On Sundays (and also big footy games) there is FREE cheese on the bar. FREE CHEESE! And free pickled onions and mini cheddars. Eat yer heart out on that, Off The Cuff 

Rushy


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2014)

Free fucking cheese....that's proper community and no mistakin'


----------



## Winot (May 7, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I checked to be sure and the Marquis is open til 12.30am every night and 1.30am on Fridays and Saturdays.
> 
> Also, no membership fees. And we have furniture: little round tables. And a darts board and a pool table and a cards/dominoes table with green felt on top. And a free dukebox. And good "banter". On Sundays (and also big footy games) there is FREE cheese on the bar. FREE CHEESE! And free pickled onions and mini cheddars. Eat yer heart out on that, Off The Cuff
> 
> Rushy



What beer do they do? Any proper not kegged ale?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 7, 2014)

Winot said:


> What beer do they do? Any proper not kegged ale?


No, 'fraid not. But I'm working on them….

(They do John Smiths and Bass. Bass!  )


----------



## Winot (May 7, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> No, 'fraid not. But I'm working on them….
> 
> (They do John Smiths and Bass. Bass!  )



Keep us posted...


----------



## Rushy (May 8, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I checked to be sure and the Marquis is open til 12.30am every night and 1.30am on Fridays and Saturdays.
> 
> Also, no membership fees. And we have furniture: little round tables. And a darts board and a pool table and a cards/dominoes table with green felt on top. And a free dukebox. And good "banter". On Sundays (and also big footy games) there is FREE cheese on the bar. FREE CHEESE! And free pickled onions and mini cheddars. Eat yer heart out on that, Off The Cuff
> 
> Rushy


Just looked at the reviews and the management apparently changed in 2012 - is that right? Seriously, I tried it several times - I'm going back quite a bit - because I really wanted to like it and it was on my way home from working on a project in Clapham North. But the old bloke was so utterly miserable and unfriendly and it was so dead that it made me feel depressed .

I admire your enthusiasm. Happy to pop in and give it another try based on that alone - maybe you can buy me a pint. Not on a footie night, mind!
But there is room for other venues in Brixton. It does not have to be a choice between a good honest basic boozer with an uninteresting beer selection and a gig / club pub.

In the meantime, I am intrigued to find out what a dukebox is.


----------



## Rushy (May 8, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> No, 'fraid not. But I'm working on them….
> 
> (They do John Smiths and Bass. Bass!  )


I strongly dislike John Smith's. It is pretend beer. Bass is ok.

I was invited for a graduate interview with Bass. Their offices were on the same street as my flat in Nottingham - just 100yards away. I forgot and missed it. 

ETA Fuck - that was 20 years ago


----------



## leanderman (May 8, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I checked to be sure and the Marquis is open til 12.30am every night and 1.30am on Fridays and Saturdays.
> 
> Also, no membership fees. And we have furniture: little round tables. And a darts board and a pool table and a cards/dominoes table with green felt on top. And a free dukebox. And good "banter". On Sundays (and also big footy games) there is FREE cheese on the bar. FREE CHEESE! And free pickled onions and mini cheddars. Eat yer heart out on that, Off The Cuff
> 
> Rushy



Nice-looking pub. But, last time there, a terrible selection of beer.

The least worst option was Bass.

Still ... free cheese!


----------



## Miss-Shelf (May 8, 2014)

Rushy said:


> In the meantime, I am intrigued to find out what a dukebox is.


me too


Brixton Hatter said:


> On Sundays there is FREE cheese on the bar. FREE CHEESE! And free pickled onions and mini cheddars
> 
> Rushy


where is this nirvana?  I want free bar cheese and crackers


----------



## leanderman (May 8, 2014)

Oh, and lovely windows.


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 8, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> me too
> where is this nirvana?  I want free bar cheese and crackers



Mate. You'd love the Marquis, proper boozer


----------



## Ax^ (May 8, 2014)

editor said:


> It's funny that some people have this notion that a new business - any business - is automatically 'good for the community.'



and to think they have been teding to  crackdown on the drug dealers around the area


----------



## AverageJoe (May 8, 2014)

Rushy said:


> In the meantime, I am intrigued to find out what a dukebox is.



Its a Jukebox that only plays fighting songs. Obvs. Doesnt take money, you just have to drop your hanky and turn and walk ten paces


----------



## leanderman (May 8, 2014)

poptyping said:


> Mate. You'd love the Marquis, proper boozer



If you don't like ale


----------



## Miss-Shelf (May 8, 2014)

leanderman said:


> If you don't like ale


the main draw for me would be cheese and mini cheddars with pickled onions


----------



## footballerslegs (May 8, 2014)

leanderman said:


> If you don't like ale



Granted the range of beer is poor but for my money the Guinness is the best in Brixton (and I used to work for Guinness).


----------



## gabi (May 8, 2014)

The Marquis used to be my local when i lived on Dalyell Road. Best little pub in brixton. I love the staff. Some good, if gruff, fellow drinkers in there too. Makin me homesick!

And yes, the free cheese and crackers 

I always wondered how the hell it could stay open though, given all the other bigger, busier pubs in the area closing down. Maybe it's a listed building?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2014)

Lets have it right. It is fair to say that in Londonium there are lots of people with more money than sense. It's also fair to say that these people represent a world elite of people from insanely rich countries living in the capital and making more money than they should be allowed to make.

Thusly there will by necessity and quick thinking people who run bars, clothing outlets and falafal stalls in order to soak up some of the floating money.

But in the last 15 years the people living and working in the crap side of the river have been used to lower prices, less nonsense and no gentrifying.



The time has come sarf london lads and gyal dem. SL is now the playground of the wealthy 

You'll have to come live in Northampton- 40 mins by train to Kings X

You'll grow to love it eventually. We all love it,once our spirit has been broken


----------



## Maggot (May 8, 2014)

editor said:


> The fact that local residents will effectively be barred from seeing any of the amazing bands that are supposedly booked by virtue of them not knowing the 'right people' or being able to afford a membership might, I suspect, rather piss them off.


But the bands are playing on Thursday nights which is open to anyone.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2014)

I wonder how much they pay the bands.


----------



## tommers (May 8, 2014)

I want to see their full monthly accounts.


----------



## Yelkcub (May 8, 2014)

tommers said:


> I want to see their full monthly accounts.


 
And meet their auditors.


----------



## snowy_again (May 8, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> I wonder how much they pay the bands.



With six bands a night with 20 min slots - I'm assuming a few beers at most? 

The Hobos get a glowing Windmill Review, so frankly I'm not sure who to believe anymore... (headexplode.gif)


----------



## leanderman (May 8, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> With six bands a night with 20 min slots - I'm assuming a few beers at most?
> 
> The Hobos get a glowing Windmill Review, so frankly I'm not sure who to believe anymore... (headexplode.gif)



I like the Hobos.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2014)

any of you lot going to prole night tonight then?


----------



## ffsear (May 8, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Hi All - I've just had an opportunity to read the conversations going on about the proposed launch of our new venture in Herne Hill and just wanted to take this opportunity to clarify and personalise what the concept of our new venture is and hopefully absolve some of the negative response that has been posted.
> 
> My name is Jennie. My business partner is Tony. We have spent the last 4 months building a bar/club/new venue that we truly hope will bring a new and exciting vibe to not just Herne Hill but all of South London. As long term members of the community, we saw a need for something special and unique and we looked long and hard to find the right place to build that pipe dream.
> 
> ...




So basically..   You've un-invented the pub


----------



## Yelkcub (May 8, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I like the Hobos.


 
Has the Littlest one settled down yet?


----------



## snowy_again (May 8, 2014)

I keep on reading that as _Hobnobs_, get interested and then disappointment strikes.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2014)

Maggot said:


> But the bands are playing on Thursday nights which is open to anyone.


I'll look forward to seeing their line ups revealed. You'll be stuffed if you want to see a band on a Friday and Saturday though, unless you think they're so good (and the venue/PA system so amazing) that you'd shell out for the required £10 membership and hand over £4 for a bottle of beer.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> I wonder how much they pay the bands.


I wonder what the PA system is like.


----------



## BoxRoom (May 8, 2014)

editor said:


> I wonder what the PA system is like.


----------



## snowy_again (May 8, 2014)

editor said:


> I'll look forward to seeing their line ups revealed. You'll be stuffed if you want to see a band on a Friday and Saturday though, unless you think they're so good (and the venue/PA system so amazing) that you'd shell out for the required £10 membership and hand over £4 for a bottle of beer.



I think that's the point - they only seem to be planning to do bands on a free Thursday.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> I think that's the point - they only seem to be planning to do bands on a free Thursday.


Oh OK, I thought I read somewhere that that was part of the benefits for their free spending members. I'm curious as to what kind of set up they'll have for bands - I couldn't see any sort of stage in there from the photos I've seen (or any kind of PA/mixing desk etc).

Either way, I'll try and get up there and review it for Brixton Buzz, and if it turns out to be a great gig for bands, will be happy to recommend it (painful beer prices notwithstanding).


----------



## Yelkcub (May 8, 2014)

Has anyone here been to 'The Cuff' yet?


----------



## snowy_again (May 8, 2014)

editor said:


> Oh OK, I thought I read somewhere that that was part of the benefits for their free spending members. I'm curious as to what kind of set up they'll have for bands - I couldn't see any sort of stage in there from the photos I've seen (or any kind of PA/mixing desk etc).
> 
> Either way, I'll try and get up there and review it for Brixton Buzz, and if it turns out to be a great gig for bands, will be happy to recommend it (painful beer prices notwithstanding).



Ah, I think it's on their facebook - they've built some mini stage.


----------



## editor (May 8, 2014)

Six bands, all playing 20 minute slots in a space that small? They'll have their work cut out trying to keep that in check - as will the soundman.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 8, 2014)

goddamned folk music...


----------



## snowy_again (May 8, 2014)

editor said:


> Six bands, all playing 20 minute slots in a space that small? They'll have their work cut out trying to keep that in check - as will the soundman.



They'll all be wearing hats, it'll be chilled (and potentially funky).


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 8, 2014)

.


----------



## Rushy (May 8, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> They'll all be wearing hats, it'll be chilled (and potentially funky).



Thinking of popping along later. Does anyone know whether hats are compulsory?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Thinking of popping along later. Does anyone know whether hats are compulsory?



Yes, you must wear a hat. it says so on their website.


----------



## Rushy (May 8, 2014)

Bugger. Can anyone lend me a hat? Or will my cycle helmet count? (With the flashing light turned off - obviously.)


----------



## colacubes (May 8, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Bugger. Can anyone lend me a hat? Or will my cycle helmet count?



Only if you wear it at a jaunty angle


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2014)

off the wrist


----------



## editor (May 8, 2014)

So are there six bands playing tonight? If anyone is thinking about donning some jauntily angled headgear and heading off to Cuffers, I'd love it if they could post up a review here - with pics, if poss - which I could post on B Buzz (with your permission and credit, of course).


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Bugger. Can anyone lend me a hat? Or will my cycle helmet count? (With the flashing light turned off - obviously.)


----------



## MrSki (May 8, 2014)

editor said:


> So are there six bands playing tonight? If anyone is thinking about donning some jauntily angled headgear and heading off to Cuffers, I'd love it if they could post up a review here - with pics, if poss - which I could post on B Buzz (with your permission and credit, of course).


If there are six bands will there be room for any punters?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

MrSki said:


> If there are six bands will there be room for any punters?



Will there be any punters?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 8, 2014)

its prole night, place will be packed to the rafters


----------



## MrSki (May 8, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Will there be any punters?


I expect there will be a couple of curious wine lovers checking it out.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> its prole night, place will be packed to the rafters



Well then i might pop down there with my UB40.


----------



## Rushy (May 8, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> View attachment 53524


That's your hat?


----------



## editor (May 8, 2014)

Well, six bands with an average of four members = 24. Add in four friends per band = 48. That'll be the place  half-filled right there. I hope they're paying the bands reasonable renumeration for their efforts and have got a decent soundman in.


----------



## Rushy (May 8, 2014)

editor said:


> I hope they're paying the bands reasonable renumeration for their efforts and have got a decent soundman in.


How much would you say that is?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

Rushy said:


> That's your hat?



I never wear hats, that is why i still have hair, no sign of receding hairline. You can buy that one for a couple of quid in Brixton market, Popes Road by the toilets. (that's not an invitation)


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 8, 2014)

editor said:


> Well, six bands with an average of four members = 24. Add in four friends per band = 48. That'll be the place  half-filled right there. I hope they're paying the bands reasonable renumeration for their efforts and have got a decent soundman in.


 
I doubt they're paying the bands much if anything tbh. Say 24 band members, if they gave them all twenty quid that's five hundred quid near enough. How likely are they to be making that from the bar?


----------



## Rushy (May 8, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I never wear hats, that is why i still have hair, no sign of receding hairline. You can buy that one for a couple of quid in Brixton market, Popes Road by the toilets. (that's not an invitation)


Why did you pick that one in particular?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Why did you pick that one in particular?


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 8, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> View attachment 53524


 

  I will wear this if i go on friday.


----------



## snowy_again (May 8, 2014)

editor said:


> So are there six bands playing tonight? If anyone is thinking about donning some jauntily angled headgear and heading off to Cuffers, I'd love it if they could post up a review here - with pics, if poss - which I could post on B Buzz (with your permission and credit, of course).



Not sure whether there's six tonight, but that was their planned number for later dates. I might try and pop in and see, depends on how the evening pans out. I still miss Mango Thursdays.


----------



## Rushy (May 8, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Not sure whether there's six tonight, but that was their planned number for later dates. I might try and pop in and see, depends on how the evening pans out. I still miss Mango Thursdays.


Bands start around 8 according to facebook. Doesn't say how many.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 8, 2014)

Sex bands might entice me. Six bands feels like the wrong kinda marathon....


----------



## Rushy (May 8, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


>



Don't go all shy now DD.


----------



## clandestino (May 8, 2014)

I actually quite like the look of the bar - the anderson shelter feel under the arches, the random bits of furniture, all that. Were it run by some sort of anarchist collective in Prague or Berlin or somewhere, it would be great - I've been to plenty of places just like that.

What annoys me is this idea that the bar will "help the community become better". As if the community and the area somehow needs improving. This is the same line we heard from Foxtons et al during the gentrification debate - they think that by coming in with an exclusive door policy that keeps out "the wrong sort", and high bar prices that won't put off "the right sort", they're changing the area and the community for the better. In short, they think where we live is a shithole, inhabited by terrible people. And so they're here to help it become better, and we should be pleased. How ungrateful of us all for actually liking where we live the way it is right now.

Of course, we are the awful people they want to do away with in helping the community "become better". Perfectly valid questions aren't answered by the OP and when that enrages posters on here, we're told that we're the kind of people they don't want to drink with anyway and that we shouldn't visit the bar. We're the reason why the community needs to "become better" in their eyes - also the reason why they can afford the rent for the bar in the first place.

In a way, we've seen this before with Hootananny, who came in with an idea completely unsuited to the venue they were taking over, just like this mob. But the folks at Hootananny were quick to recognise that and changed accordingly - and now in many ways are running what feels like one of the more old school Brixton hang outs.

Will this place do OK? You'd think there were plenty of posh sorts in HH to see them through, but then someone tried to do an exclusive club in that pub opposite the Barrier Block, only a hop and skip away from the Village, and that's no longer with us.

Maybe instead of trying to "help the community become better", the OP could just "contribute to the community". That's all that opening a new bar should really do. Not change the area, just add something extra to it, something for everyone if they want it.

It would be nice if you could read this OTCbarSE24 - might give you some food for thought.


----------



## salem (May 8, 2014)

Wow you're really putting words into their mouth


----------



## salem (May 8, 2014)

This place is getting more like the Daily Mail every day. The same worry about outsiders coming in and changing the local culture and the same general hyperbole.

I suppose much of the population is hitting that age though


----------



## clandestino (May 8, 2014)

salem said:


> Wow you're really putting words into their mouth



Not really. What I've written is my interpretation of everything they've written. 

And, sure, I would be worried if someone wanted to change the area so it became like the areas in London I moved to Brixton to avoid. I don't think there's anything wrong in objecting to that, and there's nothing Daily Mail about it, unless you feel that any sort of protest is Daily Mail-like.


----------



## leanderman (May 8, 2014)

salem said:


> This place is getting more like the Daily Mail every day. The same worry about outsiders coming in and changing the local culture and the same general hyperbole.
> 
> I suppose much of the population is hitting that age though



As the song from Duck Soup goes: 'Whatever it is ... we're against it!'


----------



## leanderman (May 8, 2014)

MrSki said:


> I expect there will be a couple of curious wine lovers checking it out.



I intend to check it out, at 7.30pm, but the idea of live bands is a deterrent.


----------



## leanderman (May 8, 2014)

clandestino said:


> I actually quite like the look of the bar - the anderson shelter feel under the arches, the random bits of furniture, all that. Were it run by some sort of anarchist collective in Prague or Berlin or somewhere, it would be great - I've been to plenty of places just like that.
> 
> What annoys me is this idea that the bar will "help the community become better". As if the community and the area somehow needs improving. This is the same line we heard from Foxtons et al during the gentrification debate - they think that by coming in with an exclusive door policy that keeps out "the wrong sort", and high bar prices that won't put off "the right sort", they're changing the area and the community for the better. In short, they think where we live is a shithole, inhabited by terrible people. And so they're here to help it become better, and we should be pleased. How ungrateful of us all for actually liking where we live the way it is right now.
> 
> ...



'Help the community become better' may simply be the clumsy phrasing of someone what cant rite proper.


----------



## Rushy (May 8, 2014)

clandestino said:


> What annoys me is this idea that the bar will "help the community become better". As if the community and the area somehow needs improving. This is the same line we heard from Foxtons et al during the gentrification debate - they think that by coming in with an exclusive door policy that keeps out "the wrong sort", and high bar prices that won't put off "the right sort", they're changing the area and the community for the better. In short, they think where we live is a shithole, inhabited by terrible people. And so they're here to help it become better, and we should be pleased. How ungrateful of us all for actually liking where we live the way it is right now.



The problem is that you can read what you like into pretty much anything. And it is blatantly obvious from their facebook that these guys aren't wordsmiths. They are practically illiterate compared to most people on here. So to hang on every phrase is a bit pointless.

I could read this:


> I actually quite like the look of the bar - the anderson shelter feel under the arches, the random bits of furniture, all that. Were it run by some sort of anarchist collective in Prague or Berlin or somewhere, it would be great - I've been to plenty of places just like that.



as "I'm so down with the alternative scene in Prague and Berlin where it's just so real man. Anarchists, yeah. They know how to do random furniture _authentically_." But I know that's probably not what you are trying to say. But it can easily be read like that.



> Will this place do OK? You'd think there were plenty of posh sorts in HH to see them through, but then someone tried to do an exclusive club in that pub opposite the Barrier Block, only a hop and skip away from the Village, and that's no longer with us.


That venture was only ever intended to be short term whilst Lexadon got planning.



> Maybe instead of trying to "help the community become better", the OP could just "contribute to the community". That's all that opening a new bar should really do. Not change the area, just add something extra to it, something for everyone if they want it.


Surely you can see that this is probably, or at least possibly, exactly what they mean?


----------



## clandestino (May 8, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Surely you can see that this is probably, or at least possibly, exactly what they mean?



No, I don't read it like that at all. I'm afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that point.

For the rest, OK...maybe they've just expressed themselves poorly, but I really think there's enough in everything else they say to suggest that my interpretation is right.


----------



## clandestino (May 8, 2014)

Rushy said:


> as "I'm so down with the alternative scene in Prague and Berlin where it's just so real man. Anarchists, yeah. They know how to do random furniture _authentically_." But I know that's probably not what you are trying to say. But it can easily be read like that.



But that is exactly what I'm saying, so you would be correct to think that.


What I mean is that some anarchist collective will just find a space, chuck some random furniture in, and then open up, because that's pretty much all they can do. So it's not a fashion decision, it's just what they can scrape together. I like the "authenticity", for want of a better term, of that. I like the slapdashnessness of it too. It is, as you say, "real". But I like that because my life is like that - I'm not a tourist enjoying the "realness" - I like it because it reminds me of home.


----------



## Smick (May 8, 2014)

The making the community better reminds me of those people on Grand Designs who thought that they were giving something back to the park users by building a fancy house with a wall to separate it from everyone else.

These two want to make a profit. Simple as. They aren't a charity or a community organisation.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

Well let's get it straight, we were told if you can't afford the membership you can fuck off you're not the poncy sort we want coughing up for over priced drinks in an exclusive shit hole.


----------



## Rushy (May 8, 2014)

clandestino said:


> But that is exactly what I'm saying, so you would be correct to think that.
> 
> 
> What I mean is that some anarchist collective will just find a space, chuck some random furniture in, and then open up, because that's pretty much all they can do. So it's not a fashion decision, it's just what they can scrape together. I like the, as you say, authenticity of that. I like the slapdashnessness of it too. It is, as you also say, "real". But I like that because my life is like that - I'm not a tourist enjoying the "realness" - I like it because it reminds me of home.


A bit like students then? Or anyone without much cash.  Christ - half the furniture in my house is out of skips. I got in the habit of doing that when I was a student and have never stopped. Or made from stuff pulled out of skips. You seem to be trying to make creativity, reality and an ability to "make do" exclusive to those of a minority political persuasion in a foreign land. It's a bit snobby, don't you think? Like you are having to assume the worst about everyone else just to preserve the romantic superiority of your own "reality"?


----------



## clandestino (May 8, 2014)

Rushy said:


> A bit like students then? Or anyone without much cash.  Christ - half the furniture in my house is out of skips. I got in the habit of doing that when I was a student and have never stopped. Or made from stuff pulled out of skips. You seem to be trying to make creativity, reality and an ability to "make do" exclusive to those of a minority political persuasion in a foreign land. It's a bit snobby, don't you think? Like you are having to assume the worst about everyone else just to preserve the romantic superiority of your own "reality"?



I never said it was exclusive to "a minority political persuasion in a foreign land", just that it reminded me of it. It was an example, nothing more. 

There are plenty of people with the same DIY attitude here in the UK, many of them here on urban.


----------



## leanderman (May 8, 2014)

Quiet. Slightly DFS.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2014)

LOLling hard for realz


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2014)

I think one of those is a Shackleton


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Quiet. Slightly DFS.



That's a nailed on failure. I'm trying not to laugh, it's almost tragic.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

It looks like a gentleman's doss house.


----------



## se5 (May 8, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> It looks like a gentlemans doss house.



Or like the charity shop on Acre Lane that sells furniture


----------



## clandestino (May 8, 2014)

Haha! I quite like it. It is a bit like a bad furniture showroom. 

What is the floor made of? That looks a bit strange.


----------



## clandestino (May 8, 2014)

se5 said:


> Or like the charity shop on Acre Lane that sells furniture



I like it even more now you've said that. Like Emmaus with a bar - great idea!


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

I hope they have done a full Health & Safety check. That's an accident waiting to happen.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (May 8, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Quiet. Slightly DFS.



Slightly more old people's home...


----------



## Orangesanlemons (May 8, 2014)

It looks like that intro scene in The Simpsons where the sofas take over Springfield.


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Quiet. Slightly DFS.



Jesus, is that it?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

Now i know what they meant by "dynamic furniture", it looks so filthy it will walk out of there itself.


----------



## clandestino (May 8, 2014)

Hey OTCbarSE24 - I know there's a lot to take in on this thread, but I'd just like to say that you really shouldn't despair if you find yourself with an empty bar in a month's time. You'll just have to adapt to survive, and really this thread is an early warning of that. Something similar happened with Hootananny in Brixton - they came in saying they were going to put on Scottish folk music every night of the week, no one was interested, they quickly changed to putting on reggae and ska bands, and now they're one of the big successes in the area. You never know, your members thing might work, but if it doesn't then you can change the membership scheme to be more inviting - say £1 to register for life (although there were better suggestions earlier in the thread) - and then I think the place could do well.

But then let's face it, not many bars are busy at this time on a Thursday - be interesting to see a photo from 10pm tomorrow night.


----------



## clandestino (May 8, 2014)

Anyway, just trying to be positive.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

I thought the bomb was meant to go off outside the shelter.


----------



## prunus (May 8, 2014)

I think it looks rather nice. I like quiet empty bars.


----------



## Winot (May 8, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Quiet. Slightly DFS.



Will there be a sale come Bank Holiday?


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2014)

Winot said:


> Will there be a sale come Bank Holiday?



Only at the New Malden branch.


----------



## prunus (May 8, 2014)

leanderman - what's the wine list like?


----------



## prunus (May 8, 2014)

And indeed the cheese selection?


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 8, 2014)

Winot said:


> Will there be a sale come Bank Holiday?


 You beat me to it.


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2014)

TBF you really have to work hard to make a bar beneath a railway arch look that uncool.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

Well don't all rush to the bar at once.


----------



## prunus (May 8, 2014)

What's the service like?


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 8, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Quiet. Slightly DFS.


No interest and tacky furniture.


----------



## se5 (May 8, 2014)

clandestino said:


> I like it even more now you've said that. Like Emmaus with a bar - great idea!



Charity shop or cutting edge bar?


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 8, 2014)

prunus said:


> What's the service like?


Every 10 minutes to Blackfrairs in rush hour


----------



## spanglechick (May 8, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 - meant with absolutely no snark at all: i think a dark floor would make all the difference in that interior.


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 8, 2014)

se5 said:


> Charity shop or cutting edge bar?


Or auction room!


----------



## Orang Utan (May 8, 2014)

Free The Paedos


----------



## twistedAM (May 8, 2014)

Of course furniture and beer is not an entirely new combo.
Remember that place in Farnham, Surrey that was giving away free booze?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-19715002


----------



## Belushi (May 8, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> OTCbarSE24 - meant with absolutely no snark at all: i think a dark floor would make all the difference in that interior.



Lighting and rearranging the furniture too.


----------



## Winot (May 8, 2014)

leanderman


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 8, 2014)

It looks like a Stoner's Bedroom.


----------



## clandestino (May 8, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> OTCbarSE24 - meant with absolutely no snark at all: i think a dark floor would make all the difference in that interior.



Yes, I agree. I think a darker floor and lower lighting would be much better.


----------



## se5 (May 8, 2014)

All of five people there


----------



## Smick (May 8, 2014)

I'd be happy to go in to a members' club which is empty and quiet. I could sit and read my book and the staff there could come and replenish my glass. I would know that everyone else could fuck off as they are not members and I will be left in peace.

I quite like Off The Cuff now.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 8, 2014)

Smick said:


> I'd be happy to go in to a members' club which is empty and quiet. I could sit and read my book and the staff there could come and replenish my glass. I would know that everyone else could fuck off as they are not members and I will be left in peace.
> 
> I quite like Off The Cuff now.



The old peoples home is that way >>>>>>>>>>


----------



## Yelkcub (May 8, 2014)

Smick said:


> I'd be happy to go in to a members' club which is empty and quiet. I could sit and read my book and the staff there could come and replenish my glass. I would know that everyone else could fuck off as they are not members and I will be left in peace.
> 
> I quite like Off The Cuff now.


 
Liked because I'd happily to pay to be sure of a seat. /old bastard


----------



## Smick (May 8, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> The old peoples home is that way >>>>>>>>>>


 
Na, the guys working in old peoples' homes have to work hard enough without topping up my wine.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (May 8, 2014)

I think a dark space needs careful interior design ... something like ^^^^^^ would work.
Lighting and reflective surfaces would make a massive difference  and playing up the curves of the arches would make sense.

It could be such a good space but it just looks a bit meh and same as boring at the moment.  IMO.


----------



## uk benzo (May 8, 2014)

I think the level of obsessing over this place is off the scale.

The vitriol and bile is spilling out of this thread at an incredible rate, I'm almost drowning in it. If only U75 could spend the same amount of man hours and energy putting down/destroying a worthy adversary such as the corporate cunts that fuck over communities like G4S / Serco etc etc.

Good luck to the OTC bar.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 8, 2014)

'Obsessing.'

That is at least three times as hyperbolic as anything else in the world ever.


----------



## uk benzo (May 8, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> 'Obsessing.'
> 
> That is at least three times as hyperbolic as anything else in the world ever.




Mmmmm. ok.


----------



## deadringer (May 8, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Well let's get it straight, we were told if you can't afford the membership you can fuck off you're not the poncy sort we want coughing up for over priced drinks in an exclusive shit hole.



Word for word.


----------



## clandestino (May 8, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> I think a dark space needs careful interior design ... something like ^^^^^^ would work.
> Lighting and reflective surfaces would make a massive difference  and playing up the curves of the arches would make sense.
> 
> It could be such a good space but it just looks a bit meh and same as boring at the moment.  IMO.



God that place looks awful. Really sterile and inhuman. 

Sorry OTC, carry on with the bad furniture showroom thing, you're just fine.


----------



## leanderman (May 8, 2014)

prunus said:


> leanderman - what's the wine list like?



Place is better than it looks. Owners down to earth. Good bands (Hobos and some string thing). 

Wine list disappointing. Avoids the tedious stuff, while not having exciting stuff (such as macabeo or whatever)


----------



## teuchter (May 8, 2014)

Urban75's armchair critic department swings into action.

(edited to add: not aimed at leanderman who's actually gone and done the legwork)


----------



## leanderman (May 8, 2014)

They weren't kidding about the hats:


----------



## ffsear (May 8, 2014)

salem said:


> This place is getting more like the Daily Mail every day. The same worry about outsiders coming in and changing the local culture and the same general hyperbole.
> 
> I suppose much of the population is hitting that age though



Does this mean you read the daily mail every day?


----------



## kittyP (May 8, 2014)

leanderman said:


> They weren't kidding about the hats:



I do love a double bass though. 

How was it over all?


----------



## ffsear (May 8, 2014)

Its a pub



close thread


----------



## Winot (May 8, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Urban75's armchair critic department swings into action.



Would that be a reclaimed armchair?


----------



## leanderman (May 8, 2014)

kittyP said:


> I do love a double bass though.
> 
> How was it over all?



It's OK. 

Hopefully they'll drop their membership policy (which does not apply Thursdays).


----------



## Smick (May 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Place is better than it looks. Owners down to earth. Good bands (Hobos and some string thing).
> 
> Wine list disappointing. Avoids the tedious stuff, while not having exciting stuff (such as macabeo or whatever)


 What £4 beer is on offer?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

Derek Theme Pub


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Place is better than it looks. Owners down to earth. Good bands (Hobos and some string thing).
> 
> Wine list disappointing. Avoids the tedious stuff, while not having exciting stuff (such as macabeo or whatever)


The wine list is again a work in progress - our suppliers don't supply in south london so we're trying to introduce some new produce, but our cheese is sourced locally and so far the Rosemary Encrusted De La Huz from La Mancha is a winner, along with the Spanish Goat and the Picas Blue.  The wines have been received well and we are looking to include more and more but didn't want to take on too much during our soft opening. Thanks for coming down.  It was lovely to meet you.  It ended up getting quite busy but our late licence is for tomorrow night and Saturday night.  Either way, had a wonderful evening and great to meet everyone who made it down to see us.  This thread has been a learning curve for me as we discussed.  I won't be posting anymore as I believe we can speak for ourselves in person and happy to do so.  Again, lovely to meet you. Jennie


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 9, 2014)

clandestino said:


> Hey OTCbarSE24 - I know there's a lot to take in on this thread, but I'd just like to say that you really shouldn't despair if you find yourself with an empty bar in a month's time. You'll just have to adapt to survive, and really this thread is an early warning of that. Something similar happened with Hootananny in Brixton - they came in saying they were going to put on Scottish folk music every night of the week, no one was interested, they quickly changed to putting on reggae and ska bands, and now they're one of the big successes in the area. You never know, your members thing might work, but if it doesn't then you can change the membership scheme to be more inviting - say £1 to register for life (although there were better suggestions earlier in the thread) - and then I think the place could do well.
> 
> But then let's face it, not many bars are busy at this time on a Thursday - be interesting to see a photo from 10pm tomorrow night.


It was our first thursday with zero promotion.  Three live acts booked and played.  Crowd was lovely and consistent.  So far so good.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> I won't be posting anymore


fibber


----------



## gabi (May 9, 2014)

I really think you should invest in a quality interior decorator fwiw. You seem a decent sort really but your place looks a complete and utter shambles.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

Why have an open sign on the inside?


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (May 9, 2014)

clandestino said:


> God that place looks awful. Really sterile and.




The lighting is what I was on about not the furniture.


----------



## tommers (May 9, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> This thread has been a learning curve for me as we discussed.  I won't be posting anymore as I believe we can speak for ourselves in person and happy to do so.  Again, lovely to meet you. Jennie



Good luck with it Jennie.   It's going to be hard work and I imagine things will change as you learn the ropes but I hope you make a go of it. 

And try not to take the stuff on here too personally.


----------



## Supine (May 9, 2014)

Yeah good luck with it. I approve of anyone doing the indi thing because i hate chain pubs and bars. 

Some invaluable market research on this thread too


----------



## Ms T (May 9, 2014)

"The cheese is sourced locally". From the sounds of it, that means popping down to A&C Continental as all the cheeses mentioned are sold there. I source my cheese locally too!


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

I'll give it a month before it goes to the wall, really stroppy attitude from Jenny.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

I also source all of my produce locally.


----------



## Winot (May 9, 2014)

Ms T said:


> "The cheese is sourced locally". From the sounds of it, that means popping down to A&C Continental as all the cheeses mentioned are sold there. I source my cheese locally too!



Well it's good that they are supporting a local business then.

ETA - just imagine the furore if they sourced their cheese from Champagne and Fromage!


----------



## Ms T (May 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I also source all of my produce locally.


It's a pretty meaningless term tbh.


----------



## doddles (May 9, 2014)

"Locally sourced" should mean that the source of the product is local. i.e. it's locally produced. Using the term in any other way is, imo, misleading marketing.

I don't have any particular beef against this bar - as someone above mentioned, having a street with locally owned places is far better than chainsville (I live in Reading, so I know what I'm talking about). But the PR bullspeak that's increasingly common in small, "hip" indy shops/bars/cafes is a bit much. Why not just say "we serve a delicious selection of cheese and wine"?

e2a: And could someone please clarify what bottled beer they sell?


----------



## prunus (May 9, 2014)

Ms T said:


> "The cheese is sourced locally". From the sounds of it, that means popping down to A&C Continental as all the cheeses mentioned are sold there. I source my cheese locally too!



This is the full selection:




			
				OTC Bar's website said:
			
		

> Spanish goat cheese
> De la Hus - Spain
> American Provolone
> Picas Blue - Italy
> ...



In the interests of maintaining the peaceful and happy atmosphere of this thread I'm not going to make any comment upon German cheddar....


----------



## Dan U (May 9, 2014)

German Cheddar is the worst bit of all of it! 

Man the barricades!


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

doddles said:


> "Locally sourced" should mean that the source of the product is local. i.e. it's locally produced. Using the term in any other way is, imo, misleading marketing.
> 
> I don't have any particular beef against this bar - as someone above mentioned, having a street with locally owned places is far better than chainsville (I live in Reading, so I know what I'm talking about). But the PR bullspeak that's increasingly common in small, "hip" indy shops/bars/cafes is a bit much. Why not just say "we serve a delicious selection of cheese and wine"?
> 
> e2a: And could someone please clarify what bottled beer they sell?



For me it's not about an independent outlet as opposed to a chain, it's the exclusivity and smearing the rest of us as dangerous.


----------



## Rushy (May 9, 2014)

The music started about 9.15, I think. I enjoyed the Hobos. I thought the sound was really good when they played - very clean and crisp. The second band was also excellent but developed a feedback problem which was being sorted when we had to leave. 

There was a complete mix of ages - which I like. Yes there were a couple of people who seemed like they _may_ have been quite posh - and they fitted in just fine - but there was nothing posh about the venue or the owners who were perfectly friendly. Tony is a Geordie and I could not place Jennie's unusual accent at all - I thought that she was an Aussie but apparently is English and has lived in the states for a long time.

The white cladding was an issue for me - it was far too bright until they turned the lights right down, at which point it became quite atmospheric.
I don't tend to drink wine in bars so can't comment on the wine list other than that I enjoyed the white I was drinking - £19/bottle, largely restaurant prices. The smaller cheese board was £12 which seemed a little steep but was fine for four to share and only spoilt for me by the fact that my girlfriend insisted on not having any blue's on it (I am going to have to seriously reconsider whether we are well matched).

I agree with leanderman about the private members thing - I just can't see that working - but time will tell. There are loads of things which they will need to tweak, fix and change over time. But as a DIY venue which has not even properly opened yet I think they have made a perfectly good start. It won't be everyone's cup of tea but then, where is? To be honest, like them or hate them, I'd like more small individual bars to be so closely influenced by their owners.


----------



## prunus (May 9, 2014)

Their wine list is there too:



> WineBottle Glass
> Verdejo/Sauvignon Volteo£19.00£6.00
> Cabernet 2012 - Nicholas Choblet£21.00£6.50
> Primo Brut - Nino Franco£30.00£7.00
> ...



I see your point leanderman, not a very exciting selection on the face of it (although I've heard good things about Nicolas choblet, his whites anyway I think).

OTCbarSE24 are you sourcing your own wine or are you using a virtual sommelier service? It looks like the latter, and I don't think they're doing a great job. Incidentally - in the spirit of local community, I know of a local couple who do import and wholesale, all personally selected, would you like a contact?

E2a: I'll still be popping down to try it in person by the way.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

Rushy said:


> The music started about 9.15, I think. I enjoyed the Hobos. I thought the sound was really good when they played - very clean and crisp. The second band was also excellent but developed a feedback problem which was being sorted when we had to leave.
> 
> There was a complete mix of ages - which I like. Yes there were a couple of people who seemed like they _may_ have been quite posh - and they fitted in just fine - but there was nothing posh about the venue or the owners who were perfectly friendly. Tony is a Geordie and I could not place Jennie's unusual accent at all - I thought that she was an Aussie but apparently is English and has lived in the states for a long time.
> 
> ...



Good review. £31 for a bottle of wine and a bit of cheese would price most people out.


----------



## Agent Sparrow (May 9, 2014)

I realise I am only half way through the thread which has undoubtedly moved on, but given that it usually costs £5-£10 to see any one film locally in London, more in the centre, whilst it's not difficult to see live music and DJs for free, that the comparison with whirled cinema is a load of horse shit.


----------



## Ms T (May 9, 2014)

doddles said:


> "Locally sourced" should mean that the source of the product is local. i.e. it's locally produced. Using the term in any other way is, imo, misleading marketing.
> 
> I don't have any particular beef against this bar - as someone above mentioned, having a street with locally owned places is far better than chainsville (I live in Reading, so I know what I'm talking about). But the PR bullspeak that's increasingly common in small, "hip" indy shops/bars/cafes is a bit much. Why not just say "we serve a delicious selection of cheese and wine"?
> 
> e2a: And could someone please clarify what bottled beer they sell?


Exactly. I don't suppose there's much cheese produced in Herne Hill so in this instance it means from a local shop, which could be Sainsbury's for all I know.


----------



## Ms T (May 9, 2014)

Agent Sparrow said:


> I realise I am only half way through the thread which has undoubtedly moved on, but given that it usually costs £5-£10 to see any one film locally in London, more in the centre, whilst it's not difficult to see live music and DJs for free, that the comparison with whirled cinema is a load of horse shit.


I don't object to paying to see live music though if it means the musicians are getting paid. Most of the time, at free gigs, they're not. I know one musician who played a local gig (which was packed!) and didn't even get a free drink!


----------



## Agent Sparrow (May 9, 2014)

Ms T said:


> I don't object to paying to see live music though if it means the musicians are getting paid. Most of the time, at free gigs, they're not. I know one musician who played a local gig (which was packed!) and didn't even get a free drink!


Actually I agree with you on this. But likewise I wouldn't expect a membership fee (rather than cover charge) to go to the performers either.


----------



## Belushi (May 9, 2014)

prunus said:


> In the interests of maintaining the peaceful and happy atmosphere of this thread I'm not going to make any comment upon German cheddar....


 
Cheddar and Cider are the things I have to take my German friends when I visit


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 9, 2014)

Belushi said:


> TBF you really have to work hard to make a bar beneath a railway arch look that uncool.


 The bar at the Old Vic Tunnels is brilliant


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

Spanish goat cheese
De la Hus - Spain
American Provolone
Picas Blue - Italy
Manchego - Spain
Cheddar - Germany

proper local.....


----------



## Ms T (May 9, 2014)

Dan U said:


> German Cheddar is the worst bit of all of it!
> 
> Man the barricades!


Also American provolone? What's that all about?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 9, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Spanish goat cheese
> De la Hus - Spain
> American Provolone
> Picas Blue - Italy
> ...


I have been labouring under the impression that "locally sourced" means something that is actually produced locally.
Not something that you buy at your local shop that could come from anywhere in the world


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 9, 2014)

Now this is the bit they really need to be listening to. Pissing off the local skint class warriors is one thing, but if they lose the cheese and wine aficionados they're really in trouble.


----------



## Ms T (May 9, 2014)

And picos (not picas) blue is from Spain not Italy.  I could do a better job at sourcing their cheese (and probably the wine!).


----------



## Ms T (May 9, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Now this is the bit they really need to be listening to. Pissing off the local skint class warriors is one thing, but if they lose the cheese and wine aficionados they're really in trouble.


Innit.


----------



## Belushi (May 9, 2014)

All my produce is locally sourced from Tesco metro.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

You can't move around here for all the spanish goats and their cheese droppings...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

Belushi said:


> All my produce is locally sourced from Tesco metro.



Sainsbury down there innit....


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> I have been labouring under the impression that "locally sourced" means something that is actually produced locally.
> Not something that you buy at your local shop that could come from anywhere in the world



yer fink


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 9, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> yer fink


Feckin dimwits


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

American Provolone

cos the italian stuff is shit?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Now this is the bit they really need to be listening to. Pissing off the local skint class warriors is one thing, but if they lose the cheese and wine aficionados they're really in trouble.



or even the local wealthy class warriors....


----------



## Ms T (May 9, 2014)

Four Spanish cheeses, one Italian apparently via the USA and one English but German. 

And there are so many exciting cheeses out there.  Many of them British. In their shoes I would be teaming up with the cheese makers and suppliers who go to the HH farmer's market.


----------



## Ms T (May 9, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> American Provolone
> 
> cos the italian stuff is shit?


I bought some from A&C the other day. Will have to check where it came from.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Four Spanish cheeses, one Italian apparently via the USA and one English but German.
> 
> And there are so many exciting cheeses out there.  Many of them British. *In their shoes I would be teaming up with the cheese makers and suppliers who go to the HH farmer's market.*



They ought to give you a free membership for that excellent suggestion.


----------



## Smick (May 9, 2014)

I'd imagine the quality of the cheese is more important than where they have bought it from. I'd be happy to judge them on that.

I have had some great German cheese before. Gekochtekäse with onions.

My wife is insisting we go to OTC soon. She says wine, cheese and furniture are her three favourite things in life.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 9, 2014)

Smick said:


> I'd imagine the quality of the cheese is more important than where they have bought it from. I'd be happy to judge them on that.


 
OK but when someone is saying proudly that their cheese is "locally sourced" and it quite obviously isn't, it does make them sound like a bit of a prick.


----------



## Yelkcub (May 9, 2014)

Smick said:


> I'd imagine the quality of the cheese is more important than where they have bought it from. I'd be happy to judge them on that.
> 
> I have had some great German cheese before. Gekochtekäse with onions.
> 
> My wife is insisting we go to OTC soon. She says wine, cheese and furniture are her three favourite things in life.


 
Who'd have thought you can _plan_ an 'off the cuff' visit....


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

Smick said:


> I'd imagine the quality of the cheese is more important than where they have bought it from. I'd be happy to judge them on that.



Agreed...but say 'we sell ace cheese...wearing hats and the like...' instead of 'we sell ace local cheese...wearing hats........'


----------



## doddles (May 9, 2014)

I love cheese, and could make a list as long as my arm of the great French, Spanish, German, Italian cheeses. But I could also make a list of fantastic British cheeses, so I would really suggest they get some of those on the list. British wine too - there are some very nice ones these days that go very well with cheese. I hope their bottled beer includes some good British ales from smaller breweries. 

All of this makes me sound like a UKIPer, but I'm actually an Australian sticking up for British products, go figure...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

doddles said:


> All of this makes me sound like a UKIPer, but I'm actually an Australian sticking up for British products, go figure...



You know what side your bread is buttered.


----------



## doddles (May 9, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> You know what side your bread is buttered.


The side with the vegemite


----------



## Smick (May 9, 2014)

Yelkcub said:


> Who'd have thought you can _plan_ an 'off the cuff' visit....


 As long as it is not an 'off the wrist' visit.


----------



## Ted Striker (May 9, 2014)

PRing bars is pretty simple...All you need to do is pretend you're threatened with closure ('losing the very soul of the area...') to receive instant adulation.


----------



## discobastard (May 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Good review. £31 for a bottle of wine and a bit of cheese would price most people out.



Who are 'most people'?  Surely it depends on what you choose to spend your money on?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

doddles said:


> The side with the vegemite



go back to your own fucking country.....coming over here fucking our jobs and stealing our women...and ale....and cheese


----------



## Smick (May 9, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> go back to your own fucking country.....coming over here fucking our jobs and stealing our women...and ale....and cheese


 Don't forget the furniture. The reclaimed furniture.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

Smick said:


> Don't forget the furniture. The reclaimed furniture.



reclaimed by who.....who are the reclaimers? I think it smells a bit like  a conspiracy.

Have you ever met a reclaimer. What happens to the claimers when the reclaimers appear? Are they on the same team? rivals?

So many questions....and so little interest in the answers. It's a cover up, gov!


----------



## Rushy (May 9, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> go back to your own fucking country.....coming over here fucking our jobs and stealing our women...and ale....and cheese





Smick said:


> Don't forget the furniture. The reclaimed furniture.


Fucking or stealing the furniture?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

gotta be fucking.....stealing a sofa is a right drag....


----------



## Rushy (May 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Good review. £31 for a bottle of wine and a bit of cheese would price most people out.


Thanks DD. I'd be surprised if £15.50 each for a night out for two excludes _most _people though.


----------



## Rushy (May 9, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> gotta be fucking.....stealing a sofa is a right drag....


None of the furniture was sticky to be fair. But it is early days and I don't think doddles said he has visited yet...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2014)

Rushy said:


> None of the furniture was sticky to be fair. But it is early days and I don't think doddles said he has visited yet...



Men at Jerk


----------



## doddles (May 9, 2014)

Rushy said:


> None of the furniture was sticky to be fair. But it is early days and I don't think doddles said he has visited yet...


Shagadelic baby, Yeah!


----------



## doddles (May 9, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Men at Jerk


Men a twerk


----------



## Rushy (May 9, 2014)

doddles said:


> Men a twerk



Men without hats


----------



## Winot (May 9, 2014)

Ms T said:


> And picos (not picas) blue is from Spain not Italy.  I could do a better job at sourcing their cheese (and probably the wine!).



They should have a go at making Herne Hill picos using their 'cave'.


----------



## Ms T (May 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> They ought to give you a free membership for that excellent suggestion.



Gentrification consultant.


----------



## Smick (May 9, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> reclaimed by who.....who are the reclaimers? I think it smells a bit like  a conspiracy.
> 
> Have you ever met a reclaimer. What happens to the claimers when the reclaimers appear? Are they on the same team? rivals?
> 
> So many questions....and so little interest in the answers. It's a cover up, gov!


  The guys up at Emmaus reclaim furniture. I think it is part of their rehabilitation from alcohol addiction.

I think Emmaus get it donated though. I am not sure where OTC could get theirs. OTC maybe go hoking the bins and skips.


----------



## twistedAM (May 9, 2014)

Hey cheeseheads; might be worth the trip to Crystal Palace to this shop. I'm no big  cheese eater but have it good authority it's rather, rather good and the few things I've tried (mostly British and French) were way above the norm of what I'm used to. At weekends they do tastings with cheese, wine and beer (but not upcycled chairs)
http://www.goodtaste-fd.co.uk


----------



## discobastard (May 9, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> Hey cheeseheads; might be worth the trip to Crystal Palace to this shop. I'm no big  cheese eater but have it good authority it's rather, rather good and the few things I've tried (mostly British and French) were way above the norm of what I'm used to. At weekends they do tastings with cheese, wine and beer (but not upcycled chairs)
> http://www.goodtaste-fd.co.uk


I can heartily second this.  Great little shop.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 9, 2014)

I think Herne Hill is going too up-market for me.


----------



## snowy_again (May 9, 2014)

It's a bit lost at the moment - the Half Moon Lane side hasn't recovered since the flooding. 

The hardware shop is still good, Elaine is lovely, Pullens is there if that's what you want, Kaya does good food...


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

discobastard said:


> Who are 'most people'?  *Surely it depends on what you choose to spend your money on?*



This is a Thatcherite argument, proper housekeeping and financial management. It's also a middle class argument stolen from the working class; but instead of thrifty from necessity it is dressed up in virtue.


----------



## Ms T (May 9, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> It's a bit lost at the moment - the Half Moon Lane side hasn't recovered since the flooding.
> 
> The hardware shop is still good, Elaine is lovely, Pullens is there if that's what you want, Kaya does good food...



Still no sign of life at the Half Moon or Number 22. Cafe Prov is about to reopen though.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Thanks DD. I'd be surprised if £15.50 each for a night out for two excludes _most _people though.



We are just waiting for leanderman to sober up and post his review so we can compare and contrast.


----------



## kittyP (May 9, 2014)

prunus said:


> Their wine list is there too:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know it's not unusual in a lot of places but £9 for a glass of prosecco and it will be a smaller champagne type glass I would imagine


----------



## kittyP (May 9, 2014)

I love cheese but am utterly bemused by that cheese selection. 
And yes to echo others, locally sourced?


----------



## Rushy (May 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> We are just waiting for leanderman to sober up and post his review so we can compare and contrast.


He was locally sauced.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

Was the furniture comfortable and did anyone buy any of it?


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 9, 2014)

Rushy said:


> He was locally sauced.


Topically funny


----------



## snowy_again (May 9, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Still no sign of life at the Half Moon or Number 22. Cafe Prov is about to reopen though.



I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. No. 22 is doing external catering things to cover the time I think. The dance shop is vaguely open etc.


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 9, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Was the furniture comfortable and did anyone buy any of it?


I had my eye on this


----------



## snowy_again (May 9, 2014)

Despite the rumours of a 'spoons.


----------



## twistedAM (May 9, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. No. 22 is doing external catering things to cover the time I think. The dance shop is vaguely open etc.



Luxury flats with high insurance premiums???


----------



## snowy_again (May 9, 2014)

Its Dulwich Estates innit. Current occupier upstairs is living a nice life (at least what I can see from my window).


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Quiet. Slightly DFS.



Pouffe alert!


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 9, 2014)

clandestino said:


> Haha! I quite like it. It is a bit like a bad furniture showroom.
> 
> What is the floor made of? That looks a bit strange.



Looks like polished concrete. Comes and goes as a fashionable floor-covering in former industrial premises, and is easy as fuck to clean if someone voms.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 9, 2014)

What does everyone think of Pullens? I like it. Good place for dates.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 9, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> Slightly more old people's home...



Nah, there'd be more high-backed chairs, so that the wrinklies could get up and down from them more easily!


----------



## Orang Utan (May 9, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Nah, there'd be more high-backed chairs, so that the wrinklies could get up and down from them more easily!


That's why I mentioned Shackleton upthread!


----------



## Crispy (May 9, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> I don't think the half moon is ever coming back.


They're stuck because of disagreements between their insurers and Thames Water's about who's liable to pay for the repair work.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 9, 2014)

Dan U said:


> German Cheddar is the worst bit of all of it!
> 
> Man the barricades!



TBF, few businesses have the bottle to sell ripe Harzer, because people are scared of it, so German cheddar-equivalent is probably as far as they'll go.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 9, 2014)

Ms T said:


> Four Spanish cheeses, one Italian apparently via the USA and one English but German.
> 
> And there are so many exciting cheeses out there.  Many of them British. In their shoes I would be teaming up with the cheese makers and suppliers who go to the HH farmer's market.



Personally, I reckon they should buy some nice fresh Harzer, put it in a cheese safe for a month, and then sell it to their customers.  Give them a real taste and scent sensation.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (May 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Quiet. Slightly DFS.



Reminds me of a few places I've walked out of at 8am, with the morning sun intensifying an already unbearable comedown... Those were the days!


----------



## ska invita (May 9, 2014)

.


----------



## Belushi (May 9, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Pouffe alert!



Did you call my Ottoman a Pouffe?


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 9, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Did you call my Ottoman a Pouffe?



I called your ottoman an Armenian-murdering pouffe, you slag!


----------



## doddles (May 9, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Did you call my Ottoman a Pouffe?


It's more of a tuffet, tbh.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

I had to Google "tuffet" because i'm just a working class lad and we don't know about this sort of filth.


----------



## editor (May 9, 2014)

What's a tuffet?!


----------



## gaijingirl (May 9, 2014)

editor said:


> What's a tuffet?!



I believe it's what Little Miss Muffet sat on whilst eating curds and whey?  If I'm not mistaken.


----------



## joustmaster (May 9, 2014)

editor said:


> What's a tuffet?!


a pouffe.
my grandad had one. and he was very working class.


----------



## killer b (May 9, 2014)

I can't claim to be an expert in tuffets, but all the books I own with pictures of them (well, that my kids own) suggest that they are small mounds of earth covered in grass.


----------



## SarfLondoner (May 9, 2014)

editor said:


> What's a tuffet?!


A Footstool


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> A Footstool


----------



## shifting gears (May 9, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Thanks DD. I'd be surprised if £15.50 each for a night out for two excludes _most _people though.



I'd be suprised if half a bottle of wine and a couple of Carr's table water biscuits and a sliver of two of cheese constituted 'a night out' , to be honest


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

shifting gears said:


> I'd be suprised if half a bottle of wine and a couple of Carr's table water biscuits and a sliver of two of cheese constituted 'a night out' , to be honest



Especially in a bomb shelter with charity shop furniture, that glass table is going to cause an accident. What happens when it rains?


----------



## shifting gears (May 9, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> What does everyone think of Pullens? I like it. Good place for dates.



Went there a couple of times with an ex, would have to agree. Quite intimate in the evening and high standard of grub. Fairly pricey I seem to recall though

Their full breakfast, while pricey, is notable for the unusual addition of sautéed potatoes - way, way better than it sounds. An annual treat for me


----------



## snowy_again (May 9, 2014)

ska invita said:


> .


Poof! and then it was gone. Which bit were you replying to?


----------



## snowy_again (May 9, 2014)

shifting gears said:


> Went there a couple of times with an ex, would have to agree. Quite intimate in the evening and high standard of grub. Fairly pricey I seem to recall though
> 
> Their full breakfast, while pricey, is notable for the unusual addition of sautéed potatoes - way, way better than it sounds. An annual treat for me



Funny place - eccentric in a stubborn way - you have to fit in with them rather than vice versa.

gaijingirl will attest (i think) to their eggs benedict. Good chips, fun staff when you get to know them and them you. He's a funny one though.


----------



## gaijingirl (May 9, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> gaijingirl will attest (i think) to their eggs benedict. Good chips, fun staff when you get to know them and them you. He's a funny one though.



wow.. good memory.. I _am_ the eggs benedict fan (actually florentine for me and benedict for him).  We never did have them there though.  We went once and gb was so appalled by the price of a full English we actually left before ordering.  i don't know if it's still the case but at the time they had some system whereby there was a very basic breakfast and each additional item was an extra amount - can't remember how much now - but it meant that a standard Full English would end up being something like £8 - and this was quite a while ago now.  

are they good then - because maybe we should try it.  Although our brunch days are long gone i'm afraid.. ...


----------



## deadringer (May 9, 2014)

shifting gears said:


> Went there a couple of times with an ex, would have to agree. Quite intimate in the evening and high standard of grub. Fairly pricey I seem to recall though
> 
> Their full breakfast, while pricey, is notable for the unusual addition of sautéed potatoes - way, way better than it sounds. An annual treat for me




The Olympic breakfast at Little Chef came with sauteed potatoes, if I remember correctly. Very nice addition.


----------



## ska invita (May 9, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Poof! and then it was gone. Which bit were you replying to?


 


snowy_again said:


> I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. No. 22 is doing external catering things to cover the time I think. The dance shop is vaguely open etc.


I was replying to "I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. "
In my post I asked why dont you think its coming back?
Then I read down the thread and saw Crispy had answered why
So then I deleted my post
Then you quoted my deleted post asking why?
So then I wrote this reply to explaining why I deleted it. I wrote:



snowy_again said:


> I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. No. 22 is doing external catering things to cover the time I think. The dance shop is vaguely open etc.


I was replying to "I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. "
In my post I asked why dont you think its coming back?
Then I read down the thread and saw Crispy had answered why
So then I deleted my post
Then you quoted my deleted post asking why?
So then I wrote this reply to explaining why I deleted it. I wrote:



snowy_again said:


> I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. No. 22 is doing external catering things to cover the time I think. The dance shop is vaguely open etc.


I was replying to "I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. "
In my post I asked why dont you think its coming back?
Then I read down the thread and saw Crispy had answered why
So then I deleted my post
Then you quoted my deleted post asking why?
So then I wrote this reply to explaining why I deleted it. I wrote:



snowy_again said:


> I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. No. 22 is doing external catering things to cover the time I think. The dance shop is vaguely open etc.


I was replying to "I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. "
In my post I asked why dont you think its coming back?
Then I read down the thread and saw Crispy had answered why
So then I deleted my post
Then you quoted my deleted post asking why?
So then I wrote this reply to explaining why I deleted it. I wrote:



snowy_again said:


> I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. No. 22 is doing external catering things to cover the time I think. The dance shop is vaguely open etc.


I was replying to "I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. "
In my post I asked why dont you think its coming back?
Then I read down the thread and saw Crispy had answered why
So then I deleted my post
Then you quoted my deleted post asking why?
So then I wrote this reply to explaining why I deleted it. I wrote:


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

ska invita said:


> I was replying to "I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. "
> In my post I asked why dont you think its coming back?
> Then I read down the thread and saw Crispy had answered why
> So then I deleted my post
> ...


----------



## doddles (May 9, 2014)

A tuffet is either a pouf, or a mound, as people have said. It can't be a pouf and a mound though. Though I guess you could put your tuffet on a tuffet, in which case you'd have a pouf on a mound.

<...picks up tuffet and shuffles off to the crap sexual innuendo comedy of the 70s thread...>


----------



## Miss-Shelf (May 9, 2014)

This thread makes me laugh
thank you

and despite itself it just can't help but offer good advice for how to improve this venture which has not been fully thought through


----------



## twistedAM (May 9, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> This thread makes me laugh
> thank you
> 
> and despite itself it just can't help but offer good advice for how to improve this venture which has not been fully thought through



True; plus they got a few extra customers last night.


----------



## snowy_again (May 9, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> This thread makes me laugh
> thank you
> 
> and despite itself it just can't help but offer good advice for how to improve this venture which has not been fully thought through



Along with chuckling at the level of spittle and crushing pin point dissection of an inarticulate PR person/investor on this thread, tonight at the pub people knew what it was. They all may have had their own opinions and experience (preconceived or actual) of the place - the exclusive members thing was mentioned as a negative by everyone - everyone seemed to want it to work *if* they made changes to be less aspirational/divisive/pricey/wannabe/inarticulate PR tossers.

The area could probably do with a new bar since 126 died a slow death.

I'm starting to feel slightly sorry for them. Last night on here felt like picking a scab; and I felt slightly dirty for pressing F5. Anyone who has started a new venture knows the feeling when you have a unusually quiet night; you get defensive, question why it's gone wrong, and often blindly follow your original plan and ignore advice from others to the detriment of what you're trying to achieve. Meh. We're all so wise and knowing and never make a mistake.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 9, 2014)

We are being trolled by a bomb shelter, hats off to them.


----------



## Miss-Shelf (May 9, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Along with chuckling at the level of spittle and crushing pin point dissection of an inarticulate PR person/investor on this thread, tonight at the pub people knew what it was. They all may have had their own opinions and experience (preconceived or actual) of the place - the exclusive members thing was mentioned as a negative by everyone - everyone seemed to want it to work *if* they made changes to be less aspirational/divisive/pricey/wannabe/inarticulate PR tossers.
> 
> The area could probably do with a new bar since 126 died a slow death.
> 
> I'm starting to feel slightly sorry for them. Last night on here felt like picking a scab; and I felt slightly dirty for pressing F5. Anyone who has started a new venture knows the feeling when you have a unusually quiet night; you get defensive, question why it's not gone wrong, and often blindly follow your original plan and ignore advice from others to the detriment of what you're trying to achieve. Meh. We're all so wise and knowing and never make a mistake.


I keep writing and deleting posts on this thread partly cos others have been so much more articulate about what I wanted to say and partly cos I didn't want to be deliberately mean (however fun it would have been)  but...if you're going to start a bar you need to be serving the needs of the customer which does mean listening to them and being humble enough to take on board what they are saying to you even if they say it mean  

Plus you need to start out with some plan of how to go about engaging with people around you including not wandering into a (local) message board community without some idea of what it is and how it debates things

This thread is now here now, it doesn't paint the bar people in a good light and it can't be deleted if they want (ok its going to slip down the page eventually but might show up in searches?)   I am genuinely surprised that people would sink their savings into a venture and then be so careless with how they scope out local opinion it puts me in mind of that chocolate business that had the loon spinning publicity for them on here 

although as others have said it is generating a lot of talk about it and maybe they are being super crafty after all


----------



## leanderman (May 9, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> wow.. good memory.. I _am_ the eggs benedict fan (actually florentine for me and benedict for him).   ...



Cooked eggs benedict and foaming hollandaise sauce (only) once. Took about three hours ... and every pan in the kitchen


----------



## gaijingirl (May 9, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Cooked eggs benedict and foaming hollandaise sauce (only) once. Took about three hours ... and every pan in the kitchen



we do it lots but we cheat with the sauce.  And by "we", I mean him.


----------



## leanderman (May 10, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> we do it lots but we cheat with the sauce.  And by "we", I mean him.



Going to try it again.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 10, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Going to try it again.



Don't follow a recipe, do it off the cuff.


----------



## teuchter (May 10, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> I keep writing and deleting posts on this thread partly cos others have been so much more articulate about what I wanted to say and partly cos I didn't want to be deliberately mean (however fun it would have been)  but...if you're going to start a bar you need to be serving the needs of the customer which does mean listening to them and being humble enough to take on board what they are saying to you even if they say it mean
> 
> Plus you need to start out with some plan of how to go about engaging with people around you including not wandering into a (local) message board community without some idea of what it is and how it debates things
> 
> ...



The whole thing was basically my fault


----------



## snowy_again (May 10, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> snip



You've said it better than i could - everyone tonight suggested better ways of introducing themselves and the membership thing. Spamming U75 as it's reputation precedes it, was its fatal mistake - unless they can delete the original post and drop off the SEO listings. Offering incentives to go and see what it's like was what people wanted to make the effort to go.

Sadly, one person via here has done a good job to scupper the whole thing. The photos last night from Leander etc. didn't help - it's amazing what a instagram filter does on their facebook compared to reality.

We were going to pop in last night and look whilst passing - but when we got there, someone was singing, and there were only a handful of people in. Opening a door would have been a slaughtered lamb moment, with the musician eyeing you for interrupting, and the staff wanting to engage you with conversation which would have annoyed the musician even more. I couldn't be arsed with the conflict. We went for a chat with Elaine instead. Dot's still missing. 

Arch Bar and Bar Story have done similar things before with the same shaped space. I've done things at both, but the egos of both managers stopped me doing more. Maybe it's that shape.

teuchter - he may be a geordie, but he runs a mens online fashion thing - for people on here who have never spent more than £50 ever on a night out, that's potentially social and political exclusion. Besides he's an outsider and therefore inherently non 'old school'.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 10, 2014)

Soft paunch panties off the muff over a bar in Herne Hill.


----------



## oryx (May 10, 2014)

To return to the 'locally sourced' thing - it sounds to me like a buzzword typical of this sort of business.

See also: bespoke, artisan. Usually meaningless.

This whole thread reminds me of why I like Urban!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 10, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> maybe they are being super crafty after all



they wish


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 10, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> We are being trolled by a bomb shelter, hats off to them.



hats on


----------



## leanderman (May 10, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Besides he's an outsider and therefore inherently non 'old school'.



What do you mean by this!?


----------



## Miss-Shelf (May 10, 2014)

and another thing...not really about the bar...more about urban...heck just come out and say it shelfy...its about me

posting on urban has really opened my mind to different perspectives that I wasn't aware of before
I don't always agree with them but its made me see many shades of thought I didn't know about and to acknowledge that those feelings/experiences/viewpoints are out there beyond mine.  I also get some of that in my work

I wonder if some people stay in a pretty tight circle of friends and then work in industries/fields (metaphors for work are interesting aren't they ? ) that reinforce those viewpoints ?  

I often wonder at the life I've led which has led to lots of changes of job, location, partners  which has all led to me not being in one community, one relationship over time.  which I have as a(n outmoded) blueprint for how I should have lived my life but the massive upside of all that changing has been encountering different people and environments which has really changed me for the better


----------



## killer b (May 10, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> I wonder if some people stay in a pretty tight circle of friends and then work in industries/fields (metaphors for work are interesting aren't they ? ) that reinforce those viewpoints ?


Yeah. I'd say most people do, in fact. Urban isn't free of it either tbf - most of us stick around because the prevailing othodoxy here is comfortable.


----------



## Miss-Shelf (May 10, 2014)

killer b said:


> Yeah. I'd say most people do, in fact. Urban isn't free of it either tbf - most of us stick around because the prevailing othodoxy here is comfortable.


yes that is true to a point - I do come to urban because it offers me something I dont' get at work or in other parts of my life on the whole (not everyday anyway)  but it has taught me that internet communities are communities that hold opinions and debate as strongly as you'd expect to find in any local group or organisation 
it keeps me up to date on things that are happening in south london and the background and history of those events (and yes a particular view of the context and history) 
but it does bring me into contact with other views because it is a virtual environment - if some of the stuff debated here was going on in a workplace, family or pub either the debate would get stifled cos people would storm off, food would get served and distract everyone or the tv would be more attractive or else people wouldn't risk upsetting others and keep some opinions to themselves  or it would contravene codes of conduct at work to get that apoplectic   so sometimes here that debate really does hash out all sides of it (endlessly often)


----------



## Rushy (May 10, 2014)

shifting gears said:


> I'd be suprised if half a bottle of wine and a couple of Carr's table water biscuits and a sliver of two of cheese constituted 'a night out' , to be honest


Four bands, two or three decent glasses of wine and a plate of cheeses might not be everyone's idea of a night out. But the price doesn't make it exclusive - which was the point. And it beats trawling through Urban on a Friday night.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 10, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> yes that is true to a point - I do come to urban because it offers me something I dont' get at work or in other parts of my life on the whole (not everyday anyway)  but it has taught me that internet communities are communities that hold opinions and debate as strongly as you'd expect to find in any local group or organisation
> it keeps me up to date on things that are happening in south london and the background and history of those events (and yes a particular view of the context and history)
> but it does bring me into contact with other views because it is a virtual environment - if some of the stuff debated here was going on in a workplace, family or pub either the debate would get stifled cos people would storm off, food would get served and distract everyone or the tv would be more attractive or else people wouldn't risk upsetting others and keep some opinions to themselves  or it would contravene codes of conduct at work to get that apoplectic   so sometimes here that debate really does hash out all sides of it (endlessly often)


----------



## Rushy (May 10, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> wow.. good memory.. I _am_ the eggs benedict fan (actually florentine for me and benedict for him).  We never did have them there though.  We went once and gb was so appalled by the price of a full English we actually left before ordering.  i don't know if it's still the case but at the time they had some system whereby there was a very basic breakfast and each additional item was an extra amount - can't remember how much now - but it meant that a standard Full English would end up being something like £8 - and this was quite a while ago now.


I have not been in there for years for that reason. And always found the owner or manager, whoever it was, rather impatient and rude. Like he thought he was doing customers a favour and they were being a bit of a nuisance. i don't have a huge number of expectations from restaurants but service with a smile is fairly high on the list. I was looking at it the other day though, thinking it was about time I gave it another go as it does look nice.

I don't quite see how anyone who would frequent Pullens could argue about OTC being pricey or exclusive though.


----------



## salem (May 10, 2014)

.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (May 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I have not been in there for years for that reason. And always found the owner or manager, whoever it was, rather impatient and rude.* Like he thought he was doing customers a favour and they were being a bit of a nuisance*. i don't have a huge number of expectations from restaurants but service with a smile is fairly high on the list. I was looking at it the other day though, thinking it was about time I gave it another go as it does look nice.
> 
> I don't quite see how anyone who would frequent Pullens could argue about OTC being pricey or exclusive though.



Yeah, I hate that "If you don't like it (or can't afford it), go elsewhere" attitude.


----------



## Rushy (May 10, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Yeah, I hate that "If you don't like it (or can't afford it), go elsewhere" attitude.


I appreciate that some people do struggle to separate t'internet and RL but I'm not sure OTC having a flounce at some faceless armchair class warriors is quite the same as being generally unfriendly to customers sat in your restaurant.


----------



## ddraig (May 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I appreciate that some people do struggle to separate t'internet and RL but I'm not sure OTC having a flounce at some faceless armchair class warriors is quite the same as being generally unfriendly to customers sat in your restaurant.


is everyone here an "armchair class warrior" then?  
are you?


----------



## killer b (May 10, 2014)

ddraig said:


> is everyone here an "armchair class warrior" then?


yeah, pretty much.


----------



## ddraig (May 10, 2014)

even those that have said they are going to check it out and hope it does ok?


----------



## ddraig (May 10, 2014)

and those who have been put off by the rudeness?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 10, 2014)

I'm a settee class warrior....don't have an armchair...


----------



## killer b (May 10, 2014)

mine is more a chaise longue. same ballpark though.


----------



## Miss-Shelf (May 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I appreciate that some people do struggle to separate t'internet and RL but I'm not sure OTC having a flounce at some faceless armchair class warriors is quite the same as being generally unfriendly to customers sat in your restaurant.


OTC came on here mistaking it for a promotional platform rather than a community discussion space 
and when that became apparent they lost their cool , didn't listen and became a bit rude 
as spanglechick and others pointed out, there will be much greater challenges in the RL running of a bar that require a cool head and clear sighted decision making 
at least on a bulletin board you can close it down, walk away and return when you have something useful to say


----------



## Dr_Herbz (May 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I appreciate that some people do struggle to separate t'internet and RL but I'm not sure OTC having a flounce at some faceless armchair class warriors is quite the same as being generally unfriendly to customers sat in your restaurant.


So this thread isn't actually real? 
Thanks for clearing that up...


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 10, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I'm a settee class warrior....don't have an armchair...



That's proper working class that is. Settee.
I have two sofas but no armchair. Not even a footstool.


----------



## Belushi (May 10, 2014)

You have to join a private members club to sit in a real armchair nowadays


----------



## tommers (May 10, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> OTC came on here mistaking it for a promotional platform rather than a community discussion space
> and when that became apparent they lost their cool , didn't listen and became a bit rude



They never stood a chance.   The first thing they did was to attempt to explain their thinking and invite people to come down to visit and have a look.   In return they got criticism,  snarky remarks and accusations of being yuppie interlopers determined to rip the heart from the local community.  It went downhill from there. 

This happens on here whenever anybody is deemed to be charging too much, or being a bit poncy or not just giving everything for free.


----------



## Supine (May 10, 2014)

killer b said:


> mine is more a chaise longue. same ballpark though.



Nah,  that makes you well posh


----------



## Supine (May 10, 2014)

I'd never join a club that would allow a person like me to become a member.
*Woody Allen*


----------



## Belushi (May 10, 2014)

Supine said:


> I'd never join a club that would allow a person like me to become a member.
> *Woody Allen*



Groucho Marx surely


----------



## Miss-Shelf (May 10, 2014)

tommers said:


> They never stood a chance.   The first thing they did was to attempt to explain their thinking and invite people to come down to visit and have a look.   In return they got criticism,  snarky remarks and accusations of being yuppie interlopers determined to rip the heart from the local community.  It went downhill from there.
> 
> This happens on here whenever anybody is deemed to be charging too much, or being a bit poncy or not just giving everything for free.



I don't agree with all the points of view that have been expressed on this thread but everyone posting them is entitled to them and to post them here in the community space we have built up for exchanging our points of view 

and it was free market research too, 

 I remember watching one of those programmes about Lily Allen's fancy frock shop, there was a bit where Mary Portas had gathered a range of women in a focus group discussing products and prices and Lily was watching from behind a two way mirror or summat or a live video link and she get really disparaging and defensive and Mary was like this is invaluable market research from actual people who might be your consummers - listen to it!

it wasn't sneering or putting down a poster who came her for genuine advice or help  it was a reaction to someone who posted an advert in the wrong place


----------



## equationgirl (May 10, 2014)

tommers said:


> They never stood a chance.   The first thing they did was to attempt to explain their thinking and invite people to come down to visit and have a look.   In return they got criticism,  snarky remarks and accusations of being yuppie interlopers determined to rip the heart from the local community.  It went downhill from there.
> 
> This happens on here whenever anybody is deemed to be charging too much, or being a bit poncy or not just giving everything for free.


I don't think that's true. It was the exclusivity thing that got people's backs up. 

I wish them well in their business but they came on here for free promotion and didn't get the adulation they thought they would get. Yes, it's hard when your audience of potential customers tells you your idea is not stacking up, but not listening to your customers can be fatal to a business.


----------



## equationgirl (May 10, 2014)

Having just looked at the photos again, was the white door at the end the only way in and out of the bar or was there another entrance/exit? leanderman can you help?


----------



## Rushy (May 10, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Having just looked at the photos again, was the white door at the end the only way in and out of the bar or was there another entrance/exit? leanderman can you help?



From the street you enter a courtyard. From there you go through glazed doors into the arch. At the other end of the arch are toilets.


----------



## equationgirl (May 10, 2014)

Rushy said:


> From the street you enter a courtyard. From there you go through glazed doors into the arch. At the other end of the arch are toilets.


Thanks rushy. I was a bit worried for a minute as I couldn't see any emergency exit lighting in the photo posted. I assume it was pointed towards the glazed doors instead?


----------



## Mr Retro (May 10, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> I keep writing and deleting posts on this thread partly cos others have been so much more articulate about what I wanted to say and partly cos I didn't want to be deliberately mean (however fun it would have been)  but...if you're going to start a bar you need to be serving the needs of the customer which does mean listening to them and being humble enough to take on board what they are saying to you even if they say it mean
> 
> Plus you need to start out with some plan of how to go about engaging with people around you including not wandering into a (local) message board community without some idea of what it is and how it debates things
> 
> ...



I truly hope this does well because it seems to me the people behind it have sunk their sweat and soul into it. Only those with a heart of stone wouldn't wish them to do well.

However I worry because behind the passion there doesn't seem to be any kind of real business plan or clear vision. The USP is cheese and wine but the menu is very poor and the list average at best. I won't comment on the furniture as I can't visit. Then there is live music thrown in and "children's read alongs". 

I have no issue with a membership fee per se but It all seems so jumbled I'm not sure what you are getting for your money. If I still lived in Brixton there is nothing here to pull me up to Herne Hill to visit once. Not to mind excite me enough to visit with a view to becoming a member. 

Finally (and this is just me) why have you a quote from Ode on the front page of your site attributed to Willy Fucking Wonka?


----------



## Mr Retro (May 10, 2014)

gabi said:


> The Marquis used to be my local when i lived on Dalyell Road. Best little pub in brixton. I love the staff. Some good, if gruff, fellow drinkers in there too. Makin me homesick!
> 
> And yes, the free cheese and crackers
> 
> I always wondered how the hell it could stay open though, given all the other bigger, busier pubs in the area closing down. Maybe it's a listed building?


I wonder when the Canterbury Closes will the regulars decamp to The Marquis? It seems the logical (only?) choice


----------



## tommers (May 10, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> they came on here for free promotion and didn't get the adulation they thought they would get.



From their op I think they came on here as there was already some negative discussion going on?  I haven't read that though so don't know,  really.


----------



## Fingers (May 10, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> I don't think the half moon is ever coming back. No. 22 is doing external catering things to cover the time I think. The dance shop is vaguely open etc.



Mid/late summer is the latest estimate for the Moon.


----------



## Fingers (May 10, 2014)

Miss-Shelf said:


> OTC came on here mistaking it for a promotional platform rather than a community discussion space



Not entirely fair, they came here because a load of people on the Brixton Tittle Tattle thread asked me to ask them to come here and explain themselves.

Whether they went the right way about it or not is open to discussion.


----------



## Belushi (May 10, 2014)

Fingers said:


> Not entirely fair, they came here because a load of people on the Brixton Tittle Tattle thread asked me to ask them to come here and explain themselves.



You did warn them we're a bit cunty though?


----------



## Smick (May 10, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Groucho Marx surely


 Hitler said that, did he not?


----------



## Fingers (May 10, 2014)

Belushi said:


> You did warn them we're a bit cunty though?



Course I did ha ha


----------



## Winot (May 10, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Groucho Marx surely



I like the fact that harpo has liked this.


----------



## harpo (May 10, 2014)

Winot said:


> I like the fact that harpo has liked this.



Groucho would too, if he still posted here


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I have not been in there for years for that reason. And always found the owner or manager, whoever it was, rather impatient and rude. Like he thought he was doing customers a favour and they were being a bit of a nuisance.


Same here. I remember years ago me and my housemates used to go there on a Friday afternoon cos it was happy hour and the beers were really cheap. We were in there regularly, but instead of chatting to us and welcoming us, he would slag us off as "bloody students" etc to his other regulars.


----------



## DotCommunist (May 11, 2014)

tommers said:


> They never stood a chance.   The first thing they did was to attempt to explain their thinking and invite people to come down to visit and have a look.   In return they got criticism,  snarky remarks and accusations of being yuppie interlopers determined to rip the heart from the local community.  It went downhill from there.
> 
> This happens on here whenever anybody is deemed to be charging too much, or being a bit poncy or not just giving everything for free.




theres a world of difference between wanting something buckshee and having a lol at 4 quid bottled beers.

still, there's one born every minute and most of em in babylondon so I'm sure they will thrive/end up being a clearing house for dirty money/torching themselves for the insurance money


----------



## Orang Utan (May 11, 2014)

Dotty - £4 a bottle of beer is standard these days


----------



## Brixton Hatter (May 11, 2014)

Rushy said:


> *Just looked at the reviews and the management apparently changed in 2012 - is that right? *Seriously, I tried it several times - I'm going back quite a bit - because I really wanted to like it and it was on my way home from working on a project in Clapham North. But the old bloke was so utterly miserable and unfriendly and it was so dead that it made me feel depressed .


Yeah - I don't remember the actual date, but yeah. The current landlady used to work at the Crown & Anchor before it got sold/refurbed.


----------



## Smick (May 11, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Dotty - £4 a bottle of beer is standard these days


It depends what it is. I'd pay £4 for some American microbrewery IPA with a colourful label and feel superior.

A 275ml bottle of Beck's at £4 will ensure I never drink another beer there

Jennie was asked repeatedly to elaborate on the beer bottles but didn't so I suspect something in the second of those two options.


----------



## prunus (May 11, 2014)

Was going to look in this lunchtime but it looked rather closed....  OTCbarSE24 - I know it's early days etc but if you're not already planning it it'd surely be a good idea to plan to open to coincide with the market - couple of tables outside and open the big blue gates would be my suggestion.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 11, 2014)

prunus said:


> Was going to look in this lunchtime but it looked rather closed....  OTCbarSE24 - I know it's early days etc but if you're not already planning it it'd surely be a good idea to plan to open to coincide with the market - couple of tables outside and open the big blue gates would be my suggestion.



Excellent suggestion. I hope they are still reading this thread as we are giving them loads of free advice!


----------



## leanderman (May 11, 2014)

prunus said:


> Was going to look in this lunchtime but it looked rather closed....  OTCbarSE24 - I know it's early days etc but if you're not already planning it it'd surely be a good idea to plan to open to coincide with the market - couple of tables outside and open the big blue gates would be my suggestion.



Good point. I overheard her saying they are buying tables for outside


----------



## doddles (May 11, 2014)

Smick said:


> It depends what it is. I'd pay £4 for some American microbrewery IPA with a colourful label and feel superior.
> 
> A 275ml bottle of Beck's at £4 will ensure I never drink another beer there
> 
> Jennie was asked repeatedly to elaborate on the beer bottles but didn't so I suspect something in the second of those two options.


Indeed. If it's bottles of Becks/Peroni/San Miguel/<insert name of crap, industrial, Euro-piss here> then it ain't worth £1, let alone £4. Hopefully that's not the case - the sort of place that aims to serve a non-generic selection of good wine and cheese should do the same with beer.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

I'm partial to a Peroni, i think a small bottle of the poncified working class lager is worth approx £1.25. With a 30% mark up it should still sell comfortably under the £2 mark.


----------



## Smick (May 11, 2014)

Beck's is my personal hate though as it comes in 275ml bottles.


----------



## Badgers (May 11, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:
			
		

> I'm partial to a Peroni



Class traitor


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2014)

Smick said:


> Beck's is my personal hate though as it comes in 275ml bottles.


becks is my pet hate


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Class traitor



Not so. When Eva Perón first started brewing Peroni it was often handed out freely to the workers on a friday.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> becks is my pet hate




All these years later it doesn't look that silly. If i was the ref i would not have booked him, just a quiet word telling him to calm down.


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> All these years later it doesn't look that silly. If i was the ref i would not have booked him, just a quiet word telling him to calm down.


----------



## cuppa tee (May 11, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Not so. When Eva Perón first started brewing Peroni it was often handed out freely to the workers on a friday.


you are ok with this 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 version iirc


----------



## Pickman's model (May 11, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Not so. When Eva Perón first started brewing Peroni it was often handed out freely to the workers on a friday.


was she home brewing like TopCat?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> was she home brewing like @top cat



I like the taste of it, you will have to shoot me.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

Pickman's model said:


> was she home brewing like TopCat?



Oh, your post changed lol.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> you are ok with this
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I've never seen one like that before.


----------



## doddles (May 11, 2014)

Just a shame that Peroni is one of the many breweries that was gobbled up by the giant, multinational, tax-dodging industrial brewer, SABMiller. They make the world's beers more bland and similar to one another, and do so while avoiding taxes and thus gaining an unfair advantage over local brewers.


----------



## cuppa tee (May 11, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I've never seen one like that before.


that is a Peroni, bog standard brew, aka peroni red, not to be confused with nastro azzuro the premium brew


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> that is a Peroni, bog standard brew, aka peroni red, not to be confused with nastro azzuro the premium brew



I've been drinking the wrong one all these years then


----------



## superfly101 (May 11, 2014)

Did this thread answer the ultimate question does he drink his Newcastle Brown from a bottle or a tin can?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

superfly101 said:


> Did this thread answer the ultimate question does he drink his Newcastle Brown from a bottle or a tin can?



I've not been posed that question.


----------



## cuppa tee (May 11, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I've been drinking the wrong one all these years then


I like the red label one better but each to their own.


----------



## doddles (May 11, 2014)

A beer in green bottles that's left exposed to light for too long will start to taste bad. Brewers who are serious about beer quality choose brown bottles or cans. Brewers more concerned with image & marketing choose green bottles. SABMiller has a record of ruining previously good beers when they buy out breweries. So does InBev.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

doddles said:


> *A beer in green bottles that's left exposed to light for too long will start to taste bad.* Brewers who are serious about beer quality choose brown bottles or cans. Brewers more concerned with image & marketing choose green bottles. SABMiller has a record of ruining previously good beers when they buy out breweries. So does InBev.



Does the same rule apply to white wine in green bottles under the glare of the supermarket lights?


----------



## leanderman (May 11, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Does the same rule apply to white wine in green bottles under the glare of the supermarket lights?



Yes. Wine does not like light. Or fluctuations in temperature.

On the other hand, 99% of supermarket wine is drunk within six hours or so of being purchased and had probably not been on shelves very long beforehand.


----------



## doddles (May 11, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Yes. Wine does not like light. Or fluctuations in temperature.


Wine is a bit different. The main thing in beer that gets affected by light is the hops (which don't exist in wine). So in actual fact, some beers that are very low in hops (or have none at all) don't get badly affected. But any decent lager needs hops, and they will turn skunky in a green bottle exposed to light.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 11, 2014)

if we are talking about beer, the best and most diverse beer I've ever had was in Munich. They produce outstanding beer in many varieties but it does not travel. I love Schneifder Wiess bier but the bottles you get here - shit! I don't know why that is because bottled Schneider in Munich is great.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

I'm going to start drink real beer, i had some recently at the last South East London Urban drinks meet up,
http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ellion-gipsy-hill.321876/page-6#post-13099579

The venue was Beer Rebellion and i knew i was in trouble whern i could not find the fucking place, it looked like a restaurant. Upon finding and entering the premises again i knew i was in trouble and did not even try asking for a lager, certainly not a Peroni.
All of their beer is brewed locally, Penge i was told.

They served real beer and even gave you a taster to help you decide what you would be drinking. I only had a few pints but noticed the difference.


----------



## leanderman (May 11, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I'm going to start drink real beer, i had some recently at the last South East London Urban drinks meet up,
> http://www.urban75.net/forums/threa...ellion-gipsy-hill.321876/page-6#post-13099579
> 
> They served real beer and even gave you a taster to help you decide what you would be drinking. I only had a few pints but noticed the difference.



My new favourite ale is Hophead from the Dark Star brewery of Sussex. 

They had it, briefly, in the Florence last week.


----------



## kittyP (May 11, 2014)

doddles said:


> Wine is a bit different. The main thing in beer that gets affected by light is the hops (which don't exist in wine). So in actual fact, some beers that are very low in hops (or have none at all) don't get badly affected. But any decent lager needs hops, and they will turn skunky in a green bottle exposed to light.



I always think I get a massive whiff if skunk on opening a bottle of Becks. 
I don't normally drink it but sometimes go to parties or whatever and there is a load there.


----------



## ddraig (May 11, 2014)

me too! loads
can't drink it anymore 
not due to the smell


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

kittyP said:


> I always think I get a massive whiff if skunk on opening a bottle of Becks.
> I don't normally drink it but sometimes go to parties or whatever and there is a load there.



I'm so glad you posted that because i thought i was the only one.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 11, 2014)

leanderman said:


> My new favourite ale is Hophead from the Dark Star brewery of Sussex.
> 
> They had it, briefly, in the Florence last week.



I like the name Hophead and i like the name of the brewery and i want to drink it.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 12, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> Only those with a heart of stone wouldn't wish them to do well.



Bollocks. I have a perfectly good heart and I couldn't care less if they did well or not. If I was sitting around worrying about them and their personal gain and future wealth from their idea of providing a safe and exclusive 'vibe' I'd be an empty fucking cunt.....wearing a stupid fucking hat...

....I might be both those things already...but not cos some posh twats opened a shit bar in a shed....with cheese.


----------



## tommers (May 12, 2014)

Hophead is really very nice indeed.


----------



## OTCbarSE24 (May 12, 2014)

Smick said:


> It depends what it is. I'd pay £4 for some American microbrewery IPA with a colourful label and feel superior.
> 
> A 275ml bottle of Beck's at £4 will ensure I never drink another beer there
> 
> Jennie was asked repeatedly to elaborate on the beer bottles but didn't so I suspect something in the second of those two options.


We will be having some new bottled beers imported from Belgium on trial this weekend.  We have been focusing on wine, cheese, taking on feedback from people who've seen us and my next project is to look into beers; however, we are primarily aiming to be a wine bar and will eventually take on niche beers but not until we are ready and confident that they are the correct selection and I simply haven't had the time to get to that yet. Please keep in mind, May is our soft launch and we are adjusting and taking on feedback that makes sense to us as a business. We will of course be open on the Sundays and last sunday we had loads of chairs and tables outside as the weather warranted it.  We will also be doing furniture auctions down the road and extending the market into our property.  We are also part of the HH film society and will be screening a film directed by someone hailing from HH on 28 May.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 12, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> I won't be posting anymore as I believe we can speak for ourselves



You lie to yourself...what do you leave for anyone else to believe in?


----------



## prunus (May 12, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> You lie to yourself...what do you leave for anyone else to believe in?



I think this is a little unfair. I'd rather she kept posting (and reading) on here - dialogue is important. And who among us has not said at least to themselves 'well I'm not posting on that bloody place again' at least once?   Yet here we all are....


----------



## leanderman (May 12, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> We will be having some new bottled beers imported from Belgium on trial this weekend.  We have been focusing on wine, cheese, taking on feedback from people who've seen us and my next project is to look into beers; however, we are primarily aiming to be a wine bar and will eventually take on niche beers but not until we are ready and confident that they are the correct selection and I simply haven't had the time to get to that yet. Please keep in mind, May is our soft launch and we are adjusting and taking on feedback that makes sense to us as a business. We will of course be open on the Sundays and last sunday we had loads of chairs and tables outside as the weather warranted it.  We will also be doing furniture auctions down the road and extending the market into our property.  We are also part of the HH film society and will be screening a film directed by someone hailing from HH on 28 May.



A big yes to Belgian beer. Good work. 

The monks keep the best stuff - or only sell enough out the back door to pay for the upkeep of the abbey roof!


----------



## Smick (May 12, 2014)

Belgian, eh?

 Stella? I'd be happy with £4 Stella if it is 660ml bottles.

C'mon. Tell us the brand of beer you have at present for £4 and the brand you're getting in and its price. Otherwise I just keep speculating.

I'm sure people on Urban who have been in already know.

If you get decent Belgian beer in then people will be prepared to pay more than £4 per bottle. I once went to a pub in New York specialising in Belgian beer. The whole concept was around Trappist monks who have taken a vow of silence. You had to order by pointing at a menu of dozens of pages and we're not allowed to talk when in the bar. Some of the beers were $40 a glass. I really liked it, but didn't buy an expensive one.


----------



## doddles (May 12, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> We will be having some new bottled beers imported from Belgium on trial this weekend.


There are some fantastic Belgian beers coming out of small-scale breweries now. Guldenberg and XX Bitter by De Rank are amazing, for example. Get a few of those in, rather than the more common Belgian ales (which are still good), and you might find yourself pulling in a few extra punters. But as with cheese, you'd be missing out on some amazing beer if you don't stock any British stuff. Try Thornbridge Kipling or Jaipur, of for the lager drinkers either Camden Helles or Schiehallion Lager from Harviestoun Brewery in Scotland. Or a Saison from Brew By Numbers.


----------



## cuppa tee (May 12, 2014)

Smick said:


> If you get decent Belgian beer in then people will be prepared to pay more than £4 per bottle. I once went to a pub in New York specialising in Belgian beer. The whole concept was around Trappist monks who have taken a vow of silence. You had to order by pointing at a menu of dozens of pages and we're not allowed to talk when in the bar. Some of the beers were $40 a glass. I really liked it, but didn't buy an expensive one.



from my experience a vow of silence is a good idea if indulging in a few Trappist brews considering the torrent of garbled shite that occurs if I try speaking......


----------



## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

no thanks for the feedback here then OTCbarSE24 ?
bet you haven't taken any of them on board, ohhhh noooo


----------



## cuppa tee (May 12, 2014)

doddles said:


> There are some fantastic Belgian beers coming out of small-scale breweries now. Guldenberg and XX Bitter by De Rank are amazing, for example. Get a few of those in, rather than the more common Belgian ales (which are still good), and you might find yourself pulling in a few extra punters. But as with cheese, you'd be missing out on some amazing beer if you don't stock any British stuff. Try Thornbridge Kipling or Jaipur, of for the lager drinkers either Camden Helles or Schiehallion Lager from Harviestoun Brewery in Scotland. Or a Saison from Brew By Numbers.



Jaipur is my current favourite, another is Belapur from Ramsbury, I am told the head brewer there is an Indian guy which is a bit of a twist on the Ipa concept....


----------



## MrSki (May 12, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> Jaipur is my current favourite, another is Belapur from Ramsbury, I am told the head brewer there is an Indian guy which is a bit of a twist on the Ipa concept....


IPA was brewed in England (mainly Burton on Trent) & shipped to India.


----------



## cuppa tee (May 12, 2014)

MrSki said:


> IPA was brewed in England (mainly Burton on Trent) & shipped to India.


yep so IPA brewed in wiltshire by an Indian guy is a bit different.....


----------



## MrSki (May 12, 2014)

cuppa tee said:


> yep so IPA brewed in wiltshire by an Indian guy is a bit different.....


I don't suppose the nationality of who brews the beer would make any difference to the IPA. 

If you are interested in IPA then there is a good book by Pete Brown call 'Hops & Glory' where he reproduces some IPA to an original recipe in Burton on Trent then tries to get to India by sea re-creating the original journey from 1820.
http://www.morningadvertiser.co.uk/General-News/Passage-to-India-Pale-Ale


----------



## cuppa tee (May 12, 2014)

MrSki said:


> I don't suppose the nationality of who brews the beer would make any difference to the IPA.


agreed but as the original IPA was a colonial concept someone turning it around a bit is something I thought was worth a mention. thank you for the book recommendation btw


----------



## Mr Retro (May 12, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Bollocks. I have a perfectly good heart and I couldn't care less if they did well or not. If I was sitting around worrying about them and their personal gain and future wealth from their idea of providing a safe and exclusive 'vibe' I'd be an empty fucking cunt.....wearing a stupid fucking hat...
> 
> ....I might be both those things already...but not cos some posh twats opened a shit bar in a shed....with cheese.



I don't think anybody is "sitting around worrying about them ... etc etc" and their bar isn't for me but given the effort that they seem to have put into their venture I'd like to see them do well. 

It doesn't bother me if they are posh or if some people think of them as twats or even, indeed, if they are wearing hats. At least they've got off their arse and tried to make a go of something. I respect that.


----------



## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

what if it was squatted and offered cut price food and free classes but was not as polished 
would you respect them for getting off their arse and trying to make a go of something?


----------



## Mr Retro (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> what if it was squatted and offered cut price food and free classes but was not as polished
> would you respect them for getting off their arse and trying to make a go of something?


Yes of course. I'd also be far more likely to drop by


----------



## ddraig (May 12, 2014)

tidy


----------



## superfly101 (May 12, 2014)

I want to be off my tits on KWAK!!!!!


----------



## Smick (May 12, 2014)

ddraig said:


> what if it was squatted and offered cut price food and free classes but was not as polished
> would you respect them for getting off their arse and trying to make a go of something?


I'd have an issue with that. It was tried in Belfast by the Occupy movement when they squatted an old bank in Royal Avenue. They wanted to put a cafe in with cheap coffees. It was just going to put the law abiding independent cafés out of business.

Do it next door to Starbucks if you are going to do that shite.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 12, 2014)

All of this is making me consider purchasing one of them home brew kits. I could stick it in the airing cupboard, wait for it to brew or whatever it does and then have a party, £10 door fee.


----------



## Mr Retro (May 12, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> All of this is making me consider purchasing one of them home brew kits. I could stick it in the airing cupboard, wait for it to brew or whatever it does and then have a party, £10 door fee.


Do you live in a cow shed/ will you have cheese?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 12, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> Do you live in a cow shed/ will you have cheese?



Authentic council flat and i will offer cheese.


----------



## twistedAM (May 12, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Authentic council flat and i will offer cheese.



Dairylea or the import option, Laughing Cow?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 12, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> Dairylea or the import option, Laughing Cow?



It's got to be Dairylea.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 12, 2014)

Racist


----------



## Rushy (May 12, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Authentic council flat and i will offer cheese.


I don't think Antic has done one of those yet.


----------



## superfly101 (May 12, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Racist


I've never seen so much Schadenfromage in a single thread!

White chalky Wendsleydale supremacists


----------



## DotCommunist (May 12, 2014)

Monteray Jackboot


----------



## superfly101 (May 12, 2014)

I hope you can TUC yourself in at night with the state of that cheesy pun


----------



## twistedAM (May 12, 2014)

superfly101 said:


> I hope you can TUC yourself in at night with the state of that cheesy pun



I think Dexter Deadwood's joint makes OTC sound like the Ritz


----------



## superfly101 (May 12, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> I think Dexter Deadwood's joint makes OTC sound like the Ritz


That's so bad I Camembert anymore!

So.... quince jam or quince jelly?


----------



## Mr Retro (May 12, 2014)

superfly101 said:


> That's so bad I Camembert anymore!
> 
> So.... quince jam or quince jelly?


Jam natch. Jelly is for posh twats who wear hats.


----------



## doddles (May 12, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> All of this is making me consider purchasing one of them home brew kits. I could stick it in the airing cupboard, wait for it to brew or whatever it does and then have a party, £10 door fee.


I brew my own Belgian style beer. £20 for 20 litres of 6.5% amber ale.


----------



## salem (May 12, 2014)

Tell me more ....


----------



## superfly101 (May 12, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> Jam natch. Jelly is for posh twats who wear hats.







Posh steam engine hat wearing twat


----------



## Dr_Herbz (May 12, 2014)

superfly101 said:


> Posh steam engine hat wearing twat



Fred was ace... I'd have travelled the length of the country to drink in a bar he owned.


----------



## twistedAM (May 13, 2014)

That's a cap not a hat; workers' headgear appropriated by the fashion industry.


----------



## Orang Utan (May 13, 2014)

A cap is a hat


----------



## twistedAM (May 13, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> A cap is a hat



They are both headwear. That's like saying a boot is a shoe, a pair of chinos is a pair of jeans, a cardigan is a pullover, boxers are Y-fronts etc etc


----------



## DaleyMale (May 13, 2014)

More posh folk:


----------



## Orang Utan (May 13, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> They are both headwear. That's like saying a boot is a shoe, a pair of chinos is a pair of jeans, a cardigan is a pullover, boxers are Y-fronts etc etc


No it isn't. It's like saying a Pantaloon is a type of trouser. Cos it is.
A cap is a subset of hat


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 13, 2014)




----------



## 5t3IIa (May 13, 2014)

I have a bowler, a Panama and a fedora in my wardrobe. That's three trips to the arches! 

If I was going to open a bar I'd have British wines and cheeses and bang on and on relentlessly about how they're all from Sussex and Lincolnshire and Northumberland and I'd charge membership so I could afford to fucking sell them at any kind of profit.


----------



## twistedAM (May 13, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> No it isn't. It's like saying a Pantaloon is a type of trouser. Cos it is.
> A cap is a subset of hat



On reflection you're most probably right; my point was that a steeplejack's cap had a different purpose from some headgear worn indoors at a cheese and wine bar. 
Anyway nowadays Fred Dibnagh would have to wear a hard hat. How long until they become fashion accessories?


----------



## DotCommunist (May 13, 2014)

They are already mandatory for PD cadres


----------



## el-ahrairah (May 13, 2014)

i'm wearing a hard hat right now.  nothing else, mind.


----------



## Mr Retro (May 13, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> i'm wearing a hard hat right now.  nothing else, mind.


I'm fully clothed but wearing nothing on my head. If we were all the same it would be boring


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (May 14, 2014)

I don't know what your all complaining about. who wouldn't want to pay £100 to sit in a railway arch listening to awesome music, drinking £4 bottles of beers surrounded by the glitterati of Herne muthafunkin' Hill?


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (May 14, 2014)

As the owner implied- if you don't like it why don't you sod off to Wetherspoons?

 words fail me


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 14, 2014)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> As the owner implied- if you don't like it why don't you sod off to Wetherspoons?
> 
> words fail me



That's hipster 'anti-marketing'


----------



## IsabelleR (May 19, 2014)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> As the owner implied- if you don't like it why don't you sod off to Wetherspoons?
> 
> words fail me





jimbarkanoodle said:


> As the owner implied- if you don't like it why don't you sod off to Wetherspoons?
> 
> Oh wow! Amazing entertainment at OTC ?
> words fail me


----------



## Rushy (May 19, 2014)

Controversial...


----------



## colacubes (May 19, 2014)

And potentially libellous


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 19, 2014)

but trouble is fun....


----------



## ddraig (May 19, 2014)

wtf?
have they messed up the quote there? did IsabelleR post that?


----------



## Smick (May 19, 2014)

i think she has since changed it.

what did she say?


----------



## MrSki (May 19, 2014)

Smick said:


> i think she has since changed it.
> 
> what did she say?





Rushy said:


> Controversial...





colacubes said:


> And potentially libellous


----------



## technical (May 19, 2014)

Something about somebody being a drug dealer


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

Somewhat off that Isabella R would join just to post that on this thread 

I'm more concerned that there's no visible emergency exit signage on any of the OTC photos on FB.


----------



## Smick (May 19, 2014)

What a shame, I always miss the good dirt.

Almost at 1,000 replies to the original post now.


----------



## editor (May 19, 2014)

They've started a petition:


> Hi guys - Please all sign the below petition to help us with our application for late license & provision of live music at #otcbar. Many thanks! If you can do it as soon as possible that would be greatly appreciated! Jennie & Tony
> 
> http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/welcoming-the-otc-bar-to-herne-hill



They're asking for "full premises licensing activity including the sale of alcohol (12pm-11pm Sun-Mon, 11:00am-2am Fri/Sat), the provision of live & recorded music (Thurs 8-11pm, Fri/Sat 8pm-2am, Sun 8pm-10pm), the provision to hold art exhibitions, comedy nights & film screenings. Not only that, we will be having constantly changing stock focusing on niche wines, beers, cheeses and other products. Our furniture is also for sale."

They also add:


> "OTC is offering the community a diverse space that is set back from any residential housing; OTC is a place to experience live music, new talent, art exhibitions, comedy evenings & a generally good, eclectic crowd of all ages who come in for an evening and want to stay until close. This petition is verification that you intend to patronise the venue and are in full support of our plans including the application for serving alcohol until 2am on Friday and Saturday nights, the provision of live music on Thursday & Saturday nights and recorded music on Friday, Saturday & Sundays. We believe that not only are we catering to a more avant garde crowd, but that we do not create any disturbance in the square & the level of music we play is perfectly acceptable and next to inaudible outside our premises. We believe that OTC will add to the community and encourage the council to take into account the positive feedback that your signature to this petition tacitly implies."


"Community" "Avant garde crowd"


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

editor said:


> They've started a petition:
> 
> 
> They're asking for "full premises licensing activity including the sale of alcohol (12pm-11pm Sun-Mon, 11:00am-2am Fri/Sat), the provision of live & recorded music (Thurs 8-11pm, Fri/Sat 8pm-2am, Sun 8pm-10pm), the provision to hold art exhibitions, comedy nights & film screenings. Not only that, we will be having constantly changing stock focusing on niche wines, beers, cheeses and other products. Our furniture is also for sale."
> ...


That suggests to me that there have been noise complaints from residents already.

In addition to the lack of appropriate emergency exit signage I'd like to know if they have the required PRS licence for recorded and live music events. After all, musicians depend on these fees.


----------



## Smick (May 19, 2014)

Does this mean that it will no longer be a members' club and therefore the £100 annual fee will be redundant?

If so, I might have longer to go and check it out.


----------



## editor (May 19, 2014)

Smick said:


> Does this mean that it will no longer be a members' club and therefore the £100 annual fee will be redundant?


Not according to their 'private soft opening' page where the one invited guest can...


> Come down and join us during our private soft opening! All our guests can enjoy our fabulous new venue and a bit of live music to while the summer nights away. We are testing out our wines & cheeses and looking at new beers to stock when we are open full time. All feedback is welcome and all donations accepted. Sign our registry for complimentary membership and information on how to become a full-time member once we are open full-time and until then please feel free to chat to either of us about our new venture.
> 
> https://www.facebook.com/events/1424301044504851/


----------



## Smick (May 19, 2014)

I thought the fact that they couldn't get full licensing was what necessitated the membership, although not the price.

So a full license does away with that stipulation.

I'd imagine that they have bugger all members and are realising that in two weeks, even if every member comes, it will be nearly empty and their takings won't cover the leccy bill for the night.


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

Smick said:


> I thought the fact that they couldn't get full licensing was what necessitated the membership, although not the price.
> 
> So a full license does away with that stipulation.
> 
> I'd imagine that they have bugger all members and are realising that in two weeks, even if every member comes, it will be nearly empty and their takings won't cover the leccy bill for the night.


This is from their OP to this thread:



> The reason it will be operating on a *club premises license is so that we can offer far later license*, we don't have residential issues so don't feel we will be bothering anyone (which was proven this weekend) and so that there are benefits to buying into the ethos of what we are creating. We want to have a dynamic, unique and continually changing venue that everyone is excited to be a part of. We aren't showing football - that's what the other pubs are for. We are offering an experience, a personal one - one where you can enjoy all the interesting produce and very special wines we are taking pride in stocking. The cheese we are purveying is being sourced locally, as are artisan breads and local bands and artists. We want to add to and become a positive and lovely part of the community - thats what all this hard work we've put in was for. The club license is not to be exclusive in an arrogant way, it's so that you - as a customer - know that we are making sure the vibe and the clientele are all in sync with one another and that the council know that we are looking out for the people who want to come and join us on this wonderful adventure.


----------



## editor (May 19, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> This is from their OP to this thread:


Stuff like asking for membership fees _"so that you - as a customer - know that we are making sure the vibe and the clientele are all in sync with one another"_ really turns my stomach.


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

editor said:


> Stuff like asking for membership fees _"so that you - as a customer - know that we are making sure the vibe and the clientele are all in sync with one another"_ really turns my stomach.


It's meaningless hipster-speak. Why not just say 'so you know only 'people like us' will be allowed in'? At least that would be honest.


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

Smick said:


> I thought the fact that they couldn't get full licensing was what necessitated the membership, although not the price.
> 
> So a full license does away with that stipulation.
> 
> I'd imagine that they have bugger all members and are realising that in two weeks, even if every member comes, it will be nearly empty and their takings won't cover the leccy bill for the night.


I wouldn't be surprised if all the initial rapture hasn't translated into full year memberships. Given that it's £10/month or £100/year I would expect most people who are interested in becoming members to take a month or two to see how things settle down and the different acts they bring in. It's a lot to ask people to take out a year's membership in what is effectively an unknown new business. And for every year membership you want you may have to settle for 1 month memberships instead. And if the business plan is based on getting 1 year memberships that could be a problem.


----------



## editor (May 19, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if all the initial rapture hasn't translated into full year memberships.


Their live music nights don't exactly look to have been too much of a success if their photos are anything to go by. 

It's a shame that they're sticking to this 'exclusive membership' stuff because I think the place could have potential as a live venue.


----------



## leanderman (May 19, 2014)

Smick said:


> Does this mean that it will no longer be a members' club and therefore the £100 annual fee will be redundant?
> 
> If so, I might have longer to go and check it out.



Free on Thursdays


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

editor said:


> Their live music nights don't exactly look to have been too much of a success if their photos are anything to go by.
> 
> It's a shame that they're sticking to this 'exclusive membership' stuff because I think the place could have potential as a live venue.


I wonder how many people the venue is licensed for - do you know?


----------



## teuchter (May 19, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> I'm more concerned that there's no visible emergency exit signage on any of the OTC photos on FB.



Why does this concern you? Where do you think they should have signs and why?


----------



## Smick (May 19, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> This is from their OP to this thread:


 Yeah, you're right. I had thought that they were going for the club thing for convenience but it is portrayed that they actually wanted the club license.

Does the license in the petition need a membership?

I see a few comedy names amongst it.


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Why does this concern you? Where do you think they should have signs and why?


Because having a been in a fire where there were no emergency exit signs and being lucky to escape with only minor smoke inhalation, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

I would have thought that in a cluttered room with doors at either end it was important to know where the exit was.

Why do you think it's ok _not_ to safeguard their customers, and why?


----------



## teuchter (May 19, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Because having a been in a fire where there were no emergency exit signs and being lucky to escape with only minor smoke inhalation, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
> 
> I would have thought that in a cluttered room with doors at either end it was important to know where the exit was.



Do you think most people would find it difficult to know which end the exit was, when one end has a two metre wide opening, with glass doors with a view of the street beyond? And having, presumably not very long ago, themselves walked through that very opening from the street, into a one-space venue?



equationgirl said:


> Why do you think it's ok _not_ to safeguard their customers, and why?



That's not what I think. Obviously.

The more interesting question is why you seem so keen to assume contravention of every legislation you can think of.


----------



## editor (May 19, 2014)

I'd like to see emergency signs floating on little boats sailing along rivers of beer flowing around the venue, with patrons having their own private dock to sit at, where they can operate a canal lock system to ensure enjoy unlimited free beer all night long.


----------



## tommers (May 19, 2014)

Aren't licensed premises inspected for stuff like this before being given their license?   I thought that was the point.


----------



## leanderman (May 19, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Because having a been in a fire where there were no emergency exit signs and being lucky to escape with only minor smoke inhalation, I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
> 
> I would have thought that in a cluttered room with doors at either end it was important to know where the exit was.
> 
> Why do you think it's ok _not_ to safeguard their customers, and why?



The escape is pretty obvious. And one hopes the arrangements meet the rules


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Do you think most people would find it difficult to know which end the exit was, when one end has a two metre wide opening, with glass doors with a view of the street beyond? And having, presumably not very long ago, walked in that very opening from the street?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You're assuming that people act in a logical manner when they have to get out of somewhere in a hurry. It's different when you can't see anything and you're having to navigate your way out by touch. Not to mention that if people have been drinking they might not be as clearheaded as to think 'oh, the door is behind me'.

I'm not keen to assume they're contravening anything. I'm hoping they've done everything required of them. But better they get pointers from us rather than penalty notices or a licence refused by the council.


----------



## teuchter (May 19, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> You're assuming that people act in a logical manner when they have to get out of somewhere in a hurry. It's different when you can't see anything and you're having to navigate your way out by touch. Not to mention that if people have been drinking they might not be as clearheaded as to think 'oh, the door is behind me'.



I am making no such assumptions. However, as far as I'm aware (and I'm willing to be corrected), the regulations don't require illuminated signage in a situation like this and my understanding is that this is based on an assessment of the actual risks taking into account things like the time it would take between a fire starting and people becoming aware of it, in such a small space.



equationgirl said:


> I'm not keen to assume they're contravening anything. I'm hoping they've done everything required of them. But better they get pointers from us rather than penalty notices or a licence refused by the council.



If you're so worried then an email directly to them would surely present a greater chance of preventing any possibly of injury, death or legal calamity than posting it on an internet board which they may or may not be reading.


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I am making no such assumptions. However, as far as I'm aware (and I'm willing to be corrected), the regulations don't require illuminated signage in a situation like this and my understanding is that this is based on an assessment of the actual risks taking into account things like the time it would take between a fire starting and people becoming aware of it, in such a small space.
> 
> 
> 
> If you're so worried then an email directly to them would surely present a greater chance of preventing any possibly of injury, death or legal calamity than posting it on an internet board which they may or may not be reading.


Could you be any more patronising?


----------



## Dan U (May 19, 2014)

editor said:


> I'd like to see emergency signs floating on little boats sailing along rivers of beer flowing around the venue, with patrons having their own private dock to sit at, where they can operate a canal lock system to ensure enjoy unlimited free beer all night long.



I want some of what your smoking. 

Sounds great.


----------



## teuchter (May 19, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Could you be any more patronising?


Yes.


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Yes.


Perhaps you should look up 'rhetorical'.


----------



## peterkro (May 19, 2014)

leanderman said:


> The escape is pretty obvious. And one hopes the arrangements meet the rules


The rules are fairly strict and clear,whether the sign needs to be illuminated or not depends on the number of people and distance to exit,being obvious is not one of the criteria.
The local buildings inspector is responsible for enforcement and should be checking them,there are loads of regs, for instance even the wood used in stage props should be fire retardant.
The fire brigade will also be aware of the venue and will check it,in response to any complaints they'll do it almost immediately.


----------



## tommers (May 19, 2014)

What about if the complaints are from looking at some Facebook photos?   Genuine question.


----------



## bubblesmcgrath (May 19, 2014)

I thought EU regulations were that a premises had to have a fire cert before opening it's doors?
Are the same rules applicable in the UK? 
If so the bar was inspected by fire inspectors and has it's cert...as it is open now...isn't it?


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

tommers said:


> What about if the complaints are from looking at some Facebook photos?   Genuine question.


Which is why I wouldn't want to raise a formal complaint - I wouldn't have chance to go to the venue to have a look in person.


----------



## equationgirl (May 19, 2014)

bubblesmcgrath said:


> I thought EU regulations were that a premises had to have a fire cert before opening it's doors?
> Are the same rules applicable in the UK?
> If so the bar was inspected by fire inspectors and has it's cert...as it is open now...isn't it?


I think the same rules apply - there was a lot of sign harmonisation a while back, for example.


----------



## Smick (May 19, 2014)

I think that calling the fire brigade on them would be bad form, even if you have been there to see.

Teuchter is right, a green sign wouldn't add much to the way out.

Drop them a line if you have concerns.


----------



## discobastard (May 19, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Which is why I wouldn't want to raise a formal complaint - I wouldn't have chance to go to the venue to have a look in person.



One could always contact the venue informally. Their contact details are freely available. And it could also be an opportunity for you to check whether they have a PRS licence and to ask how many people the venue is licensed for. If you want to give them some pointers as you've said, then better to do that than ask these questions here, no?


----------



## ddraig (May 19, 2014)

fucking hell give Eq a break!
have any of you been in a fire in a venue or seen how differently people react including yourself when an emergency happens?


----------



## discobastard (May 19, 2014)

ddraig said:


> fucking hell give Eq a break!
> have any of you been in a fire in a venue or seen how differently people react including yourself when an emergency happens?


I'm not sure I was challenging that was I?


----------



## ddraig (May 19, 2014)

it wasn't directed at you particularly, i just got in and caught up with a few posts that's all


----------



## discobastard (May 19, 2014)

Clearly, everybody has different views on the place.  Some wish them well, some wish them ill, some don't care either way.  A business is a business, it will succeed or fail based on its business plan, lack of one, or broader economic factors.  

Like Champagne and Fromage, this one is clearly symbolic for many.  Yes, a lot of the language they use is *very* wanky, and some people have chosen to read their own meanings into what they have written ('only people like us will be allowed in', to quote one of many).  Everybody creates their own reality about what they absorb.  And if people want to come on here and bitch about them then it's not my place to try and stop them.  But if you're going to combine what *might* be interpreted as snide remarks with lots of 'rhetorical' questions about their licence and approach to safety (which you can read online if you search for it - I have) then I think it's reasonable to be called out over putting your money where you mouth is.  And while I think it's perfectly reasonable to question the lack of emergency exit signs - it just doesn't do much good if those concerns are only voiced here does it?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 20, 2014)

'ealth and safety gawn mad innit...


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 20, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Could you be any more patronising?



It's teuchter, of course he fucking can.  He's a veritable bottomless pit of patronisation.


----------



## el-ahrairah (May 20, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Could you be any more patronising?


 
i thought this seemed like a weird thing to say in the context of the thread.  then i remembered i now have teucter on ignore.  scrolled down, and sure enough!


----------



## DotCommunist (May 20, 2014)

just two year back a local club (lava & Ignite) had a fire incident.  Because the place was a shithole run by nobheads (who wouldn't give me a job THE CUNTS), everything went to shit and there were two crush deaths plus a shitloads of serious crush injuries.

exit signage is important.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 20, 2014)

Good emergency lighting and exit signs are fairly standard for any venue and I couldn't imagine building control signing off on a fit out/refurb of a night club without them...


----------



## leanderman (May 20, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Which is why I wouldn't want to raise a formal complaint - I wouldn't have chance to go to the venue to have a look in person.



I really think we have to trust the relevant agencies to get on with this kind of stuff.

Other things to worry about.


----------



## ddraig (May 20, 2014)

leanderman said:


> I really think we have to trust the relevant agencies to get on with this kind of stuff.
> 
> Other things to worry about.


until "if only..."
this kind of H+S is down to every one to notice and flag up, i have done it to venues i have visited with not enough or clear signage


----------



## leanderman (May 20, 2014)

ddraig said:


> until "if only..."
> this kind of H+S is down to every one to notice and flag up, i have done it to venues i have visited with not enough or clear signage



Good for you


----------



## ddraig (May 20, 2014)

really hope you don't live to regret implicitly trusting others to be responsible to look out for your safety and that of other patrons


----------



## Rushy (May 20, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Good emergency lighting and exit signs are fairly standard for any venue and I couldn't imagine building control signing off on a fit out/refurb of a night club without them...



Absolutely. Although whilst I was sat there having a drink, I did wonder how it works in their particular circumstances with regard to fire safety of the second hand furniture. Obviously, it is mostly pre 1988 fire safety regs which were brought in to deal with self immolation by sofa fire (usually falling asleep pissed whilst smoking a fag).
It was a matter of interest rather than concern, I feel I should point out. It's a one room brick arch with a concrete floor, after all.


----------



## leanderman (May 20, 2014)

ddraig said:


> really hope you don't live to regret implicitly trusting others to be responsible to look out for your safety and that of other patrons



thanks


----------



## trashpony (May 20, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Absolutely. Although whilst I was sat there having a drink, I did wonder how it works in their particular circumstances with regard to fire safety of the second hand furniture. Obviously, it is mostly pre 1988 fire safety regs which were brought in to deal with self immolation by sofa fire (usually falling asleep pissed whilst smoking a fag).
> It was a matter of interest rather than concern, I feel I should point out. It's a one room brick arch with a concrete floor, after all.


If they're selling it, upholstered furniture has to comply with fire regs. Second hand shops have to redo old sofas


----------



## Rushy (May 20, 2014)

trashpony said:


> If they're selling it, upholstered furniture has to comply with fire regs. Second hand shops have to redo old sofas


That answers that then .


----------



## trashpony (May 20, 2014)

Sorry, when I say second hand, I obviously mean lovingly restored vintage


----------



## deadringer (May 20, 2014)

ddraig said:


> until "if only..."
> this kind of H+S is down to every one to notice and flag up, i have done it to venues i have visited with not enough or clear signage



What great fun you must be on a night out


----------



## equationgirl (May 20, 2014)

deadringer said:


> What great fun you must be on a night out


And your point is?


----------



## ddraig (May 20, 2014)

not happened that often thankfully and only speak to someone to mention it or send an email the next day


----------



## alan_ (May 20, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> just two year back a local club (lava & Ignite) had a fire incident.  Because the place was a shithole run by nobheads (who wouldn't give me a job THE CUNTS), everything went to shit and there were two crush deaths plus a shitloads of serious crush injuries.
> 
> exit signage is important.


Was that he Northampton one?


----------



## ddraig (May 20, 2014)

yes


----------



## DotCommunist (May 20, 2014)

alan_ said:


> Was that he Northampton one?




yes, tbf it wasn't lack of signage that did them, More systemic fuckup. One small back way, one front way down a narrow stair. Then the coach nonsense, overcrowding, 1st year students on the lash- not good


----------



## alan_ (May 20, 2014)

ddraig said:


> yes


Well all the reports that come up with googling that name state that the crush was caused by a DJ announcing that the buses were leaving in 10 mins and there was a stampede to the door leading to a crush. There is no mention of a fire. In fact if the doors had been harder to find there might not have been a crush


----------



## peterkro (May 20, 2014)

ddraig said:


> until "if only..."
> this kind of H+S is down to every one to notice and flag up, i have done it to venues i have visited with not enough or clear signage


I've been in a largish night club which had close on three times the number of punters it was licenced for.


----------



## leanderman (May 20, 2014)

peterkro said:


> I've been in a largish night club which had close on three times the number of punters it was licenced for.



Very little chance of this happening with OTC!


----------



## deadringer (May 20, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> And your point is?



The point is as ridiculous as some of the posts on this thread.


----------



## equationgirl (May 20, 2014)

deadringer said:


> The point is as ridiculous as some of the posts on this thread.


Nothing ridiculous about safety, no matter what the environment.


----------



## teuchter (May 20, 2014)

Did you email them yet equationgirl ?


----------



## Smick (May 20, 2014)

I don't think anyone has an issue with safety, it was just the suggestion of calling the council or the fire brigade without checking it out in person, or just relying on Facebook pics. I know it wasn't @equatiingirl who suggested it, but someone did.

I've read enough about the Artane fire in Dublin to weep, but that all happened with the authorities' blessing. So if you have a worry, grab the bull by the horns.


----------



## deadringer (May 20, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Nothing ridiculous about safety, no matter what the environment.



Agreed, which is why I never mentioned that.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 21, 2014)

To be fair, it does look like a deathtrap.


----------



## cuppa tee (May 21, 2014)

iirc I have been to a few squat parties and raves where health and safety was not high on the list of considerations


----------



## ddraig (May 21, 2014)

are the subject to licencing conditions?
are they making big profits?

i have been to squat parties that were safer than some venues and most of the people who put them on don'f fuck about with that kind of safety what with them, their mates and their kit at stake


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 21, 2014)

ddraig said:


> are the subject to licencing conditions?
> are they making big profits?


 
I think the odds are against this lot making 'big (any) profits' tbh.


----------



## ddraig (May 21, 2014)

ai
maybe i should have said 'do they have fixed premises?' instead


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 21, 2014)

So has anyone actually enjoyed a night out at OTC yet?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 21, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> So has anyone actually enjoyed a night out at OTC yet?



The owners have.


----------



## leanderman (May 21, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> So has anyone actually enjoyed a night out at OTC yet?



Yep. I enjoyed an evening there


----------



## T & P (May 23, 2014)

Champagne & Fromage is more my scene, tbh.


----------



## editor (May 23, 2014)

They're struggling a bit with their petition. They've set a target of 5,000 votes but only managed 179 votes in a week.


----------



## Lizzy Mac (May 23, 2014)

I wonder if they have seen the 'The Poet - extended opening hours?' on the Herne Hill Forum.


----------



## wurlycurly (May 23, 2014)

Lizzy Mac said:


> I wonder if they have seen the 'The Poet - extended opening hours?' on the Herne Hill Forum.


That thread is concentrating mainly on noise issues but OTC seems fairly quiet to me. I live nearby and have never heard any music from their premises, although people leaving the bar have been a bit noisy. It's certainly not been as bad as Escape so far!


----------



## Rushy (May 23, 2014)

My polling station got me thinking about novel ways in which OTC will be able to participate in the community:

 

I was allowed in to vote, in case you were wondering.


----------



## Lizzy Mac (May 23, 2014)

wurlycurly said:


> That thread is concentrating mainly on noise issues but OTC seems fairly quiet to me. I live nearby and have never heard any music from their premises, although people leaving the bar have been a bit noisy. It's certainly not been as bad as Escape so far!


From what I recall they only started doing late nights because weirdly absolutely no one went in there despite their cocktails being amazing and 2 for 1 most of the time.  I think people prefer places where you can eat a meal in HH.


----------



## editor (May 23, 2014)

Rushy said:


> My polling station got me thinking about novel ways in which OTC will be able to participate in the community:
> 
> View attachment 54406
> 
> I was allowed in to vote, in case you were wondering.


The Members Only sign looks well classy.


----------



## Badgers (May 25, 2014)

editor said:


> They're struggling a bit with their petition. They've set a target of 5,000 votes but only managed 179 votes in a week.



They only made it to 184 votes but it seems got their license
""


----------



## Smick (May 25, 2014)

Does this mean it is no longer a members' bar.


----------



## Badgers (May 25, 2014)

Smick said:


> Does this mean it is no longer a members' bar.



Dunno? 

Applications: 

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Application_Club1756.pdf

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/Application_Prem1764.pdf


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 25, 2014)

Smick said:


> Does this mean it is no longer a members' bar.



If so will members get their money back? Was it just a PR stunt, the hundred quid?


----------



## equationgirl (May 25, 2014)

Their website still lists membership, although the monthly option seems to have gone.

The revised application has different hours on it - late licence now 2am instead of 4 am, but premises open from 7am every day. Perhaps they're going to serve breakfast?


----------



## editor (May 25, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Their website still lists membership, although the monthly option seems to have gone.
> 
> The revised application has different hours on it - late licence now 2am instead of 4 am, but premises open from 7am every day. Perhaps they're going to serve breakfast?


Or serve the early morning upcycled furniture market?


----------



## cuppa tee (May 25, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Their website still lists membership, although the monthly option seems to have gone.
> 
> The revised application has different hours on it - late licence now 2am instead of 4 am, but premises open from 7am every day. Perhaps they're going to serve breakfast?


maybe membership will allow you stay in between 2 and 7am so you can powder your nose or something


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 25, 2014)

Come down club...


----------



## philfire (May 25, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Bollocks. I have a perfectly good heart and I couldn't care less if they did well or not. If I was sitting around worrying about them and their personal gain and future wealth from their idea of providing a safe and exclusive 'vibe' I'd be an empty fucking cunt.....wearing a stupid fucking hat...
> 
> ....I might be both those things already...but not cos some posh twats opened a shi


have you got a beard?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 25, 2014)

philfire said:


> have you got a beard?



Sometimes


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jun 4, 2014)

Looks like they have been breaking the rules;
http://www.brixtonblog.com/new-hern...disregard-of-licensing-rules-by-council/22994


----------



## Manter (Jun 4, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Looks like they have been breaking the rules;
> http://www.brixtonblog.com/new-hern...disregard-of-licensing-rules-by-council/22994


Where are the houses that would have complained?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (Jun 4, 2014)

Manter said:


> Where are the houses that would have complained?



Don't know about that but they were also open and selling alcohol when the should not have been (May 16th).
This is the modern age, you can break the law as long as you are selling entrepreneurial spirits to the furniture loving avant garde.


----------



## Manter (Jun 4, 2014)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Don't know about that but they were also open and selling alcohol whern the should not have been (May 16th).
> This is the modern age, you can break the law as long as you are selling entrepreneurial spirits to the furniture loving avant garde.


Allegedly. Just wonder where the noise complaints can have come from- nothing above the parade of shops is housing, is it?


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 4, 2014)

Yes it is. 

Flats above The Commercial and the parade that had the old cinema on it. Plus Family Pullens, people above the book shop etc.


----------



## Rushy (Jun 4, 2014)

Manter said:


> Allegedly. Just wonder where the noise complaints can have come from- nothing above the parade of shops is housing, is it?


Two bed flat over the knitting shop directly opposite.


----------



## Manter (Jun 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Yes it is.
> 
> Flats above The Commercial and the parade that had the old cinema on it. Plus Family Pullens, people above the book shop etc.


Aha, thanks


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 4, 2014)

Unless a shop has big warehousing needs (supermarket, high turnover fashion, shoe shops) pretty much all upstairs space is residential, isn't it?


----------



## Manter (Jun 4, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Unless a shop has big warehousing needs (supermarket, high turnover fashion, shoe shops) pretty much all upstairs space is residential, isn't it?


One of the many issues with housing is how much of it is empty. And it can be damn near impossible to get a mortgage on it. (I gave up on sonewhere i wanted to buy in London Bridge- the few who would consider lending- most said no- wanted indemnification for change of yse, which is, obviously, inpossible) Shop owners used to live above the shop, but I think that's changed.

If you sit at blackbird cafe and look across there, I don't remember seeing flats, just storage.

E2a http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=sn03012#page3this has a link to the policy exchange document that has stats on empty potential living space above retail and commercial buildings in it. I can't follow it on my phone... Section 3.2 in here. And note pickles' idea on converting commercial space itself was not what anyone recommended!


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 4, 2014)

Don't seem to be the sharpest tools in the box do they? You'd think they'd make sure they were 100% squeaky clean at least until they've actually got their licence.


----------



## colacubes (Jun 4, 2014)

Manter said:


> One of the many issues with housing is how much of it is empty. And it can be damn near impossible to get a mortgage on it. (I gave up on sonewhere i wanted to buy in London Bridge- the few who would consider lending- most said no- wanted indemnification for change of yse, which is, obviously, inpossible) Shop owners used to live above the shop, but I think that's changed.
> 
> If you sit at blackbird cafe and look across there, I don't remember seeing flats, just storage.
> 
> E2a http://www.parliament.uk/Templates/BriefingPapers/Pages/BPPdfDownload.aspx?bp-id=sn03012#page3this has a link to the policy exchange document that has stats on empty potential living space above retail and commercial buildings in it. I can't follow it on my phone... Section 3.2 in here. And note pickles' idea on converting commercial space itself was not what anyone recommended!



It's not completely impossible to buy flats above shops.  But tricky yes - believe me I know   I know the council are trying to get some unused ones back into use round here. Where I am a lot of shop owners still own the flats above and rent them out rather than live there themselves,.


----------



## Manter (Jun 4, 2014)

colacubes said:


> It's not completely impossible to buy flats above shops.  But tricky yes - believe me I know   I know the council are trying to get some unused ones back into use round here. Where I am a lot of shop owners still own the flats above and rent them out rather than live there themselves,.


I trust you  

I think they are trying to make it easier- but you still hear crackers stuff, a lass at work couldn't get a mortgage due to proximity to a betting shop. It wasn't even beneath the flat she wanted, it was a few doors down, but apparently comes up as potential trouble.  

It'd be good to get more of high streets lived over- apart from anything else you'd avoid that nighttime wasteland thing you get in so many places. I think lots of vacant space is owned by corporates, who don't have the expertise/incentive to set themselves up as residential property managers or landlords. So Jo blogs and sons are quite likely to rent out their flat, HSBC, gbk or prontaprint less so. (Not picking on them, I just happen to be able to see them from where I am )


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2014)

oh dear
how eclectic can a members club be at that price?


> Off The Cuff  (OTC) owners said: “OTC is offering the community a diverse space that is set back from any residential housing; [it] is a place to experience live music, new talent, art exhibitions, comedy evenings & a generally good, eclectic crowd of all ages who come in for an evening and want to stay until close.”
> 
> It continued: “We believe that not only are we catering to a more avant garde crowd, but that we do not create any disturbance in the square and the level of music we play is perfectly acceptable and next to inaudible outside our premises. We believe that OTC will add to the community.”


all them lovely avant garde(rs) adding to the community with their hats and braying, lovely


----------



## colacubes (Jun 4, 2014)

Manter said:


> I trust you
> 
> I think they are trying to make it easier- but you still hear crackers stuff, a lass at work couldn't get a mortgage due to proximity to a betting shop. It wasn't even beneath the flat she wanted, it was a few doors down, but apparently comes up as potential trouble.
> 
> It'd be good to get more of high streets lived over- apart from anything else you'd avoid that nighttime wasteland thing you get in so many places. I think lots of vacant space is owned by corporates, who don't have the expertise/incentive to set themselves up as residential property managers or landlords. So Jo blogs and sons are quite likely to rent out their flat, HSBC, gbk or prontaprint less so. (Not picking on them, I just happen to be able to see them from where I am )



Yeah, I quite agree.  I also hear that it's much more tricky now to get a mortgage above commercial than it was 10 years ago when I bought.  But it's apparently getting easier again.  Allegedly.  And the corporate issue is definitely a problem in my experience.


----------



## Manter (Jun 4, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Yeah, I quite agree.  I also hear that it's much more tricky now to get a mortgage above commercial than it was 10 years ago when I bought.  But it's apparently getting easier again.  Allegedly.  And the corporate issue is definitely a problem in my experience.


It's an interesting one. I know tesco does some very bad stuff, but they involved in some innovative programmes to build homes above new stores and release homes from above existing stores. I wish more corporates would consider it


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2014)

not out of the goodness of their heart tho is it


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 4, 2014)

This just fits with my impression of the people who run this place.
They don't really think that the rules _really_ apply to them so they can just do what they like because they are _fabulous_ and everyone will love them and how could anyone possibly object because they are doing it for the _community._


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 4, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Don't seem to be the sharpest tools in the box do they? You'd think they'd make sure they were 100% squeaky clean at least until they've actually got their licence.


It's absolutley fucking stupid!


----------



## mango5 (Jun 4, 2014)

Jennie's not been back to view the thread since May 12th


----------



## Supine (Jun 4, 2014)

mango5 said:


> Jennie's not been back to view the thread since May 12th



I'm not surprised with the bitchy attitudes from a lot of people on this thread!


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 4, 2014)

Supine said:


> I'm not surprised with the bitchy attitudes from a lot of people on this thread!


Oh come on.
They are behaving like complete tools.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 4, 2014)

TBH they do seem like complete tools but one thing I can't really blame them for is not coming back here to take a load more shit.


----------



## editor (Jun 4, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> TBH they do seem like complete tools but one thing I can't really blame them for is not coming back here to take a load more shit.


The last thing they want to do is listen to potential customers.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 4, 2014)

editor said:


> The last thing they want to do is listen to potential customers.


Are we members of the avant-garde community? They're not interested in attracting others


----------



## editor (Jun 4, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Are we members of the avant-garde community? They're not interested in attracting others


I could wear a funny hat.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 4, 2014)

editor said:


> I could wear a funny hat.


Can you juggle?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 4, 2014)

Supine said:


> I'm not surprised with the bitchy attitudes from a lot of people on this thread!


 
Actually I'm a bit annoyed about this. You think I'm being bitchy? What reasons are there for flouting the rules of your licence other than thinking that the rules of the licence don't really apply and you can just do whatever you like? Particularly opening on a day when you were specifically not licenced to do so?


----------



## Belushi (Jun 4, 2014)

I own a beret if thats any good.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2014)

oh come on! they are a new business 
at LEAST they got off their bums to add to the community, what's a few laws!?
got to give these wealth creators some slack or how else will they benefit the community!


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2014)

editor said:


> I could wear a funny hat.


at a jaunty angle?


----------



## Supine (Jun 4, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Actually I'm a bit annoyed about this. You think I'm being bitchy? What reasons are there for flouting the rules of your licence other than thinking that the rules of the licence don't really apply and you can just do whatever you like? Particularly opening on a day when you were specifically not licenced to do so?



I didn't say you or anyone in particular.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2014)

the invaluable free advice and feedback from potential customers outweighs that


----------



## editor (Jun 4, 2014)

ddraig said:


> at a jaunty angle?


None more jaunty.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 4, 2014)

Supine said:


> I didn't say you or anyone in particular.


OK - I think I'm just cross at everything today


----------



## teuchter (Jun 4, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Actually I'm a bit annoyed about this. You think I'm being bitchy? What reasons are there for flouting the rules of your licence other than thinking that the rules of the licence don't really apply and you can just do whatever you like? Particularly opening on a day when you were specifically not licenced to do so?



If they deliberately flouted the rules, and maybe they did, then obviously that's not on.

Might be worth considering Lambeth's reputation for its efficient and timely decision making and communication processes though. I notice they are making their decision on the next set of TENs on the day before the date of the first one applied for.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 4, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Might be worth considering Lambeth's reputation for its efficient and timely decision making and communication processes though. I notice they are making their decision on the next set of TENs on the day before the date of the first one applied for.


 
It might well be worth considering that but I've made my mind up about them now. They are twits


----------



## peterkro (Jun 4, 2014)

If they'd had any experience or even research they'd have approached the nearby residents and made someone available for any problems.
This could have alerted them to noise before the council was alerted.Anything from free drinks to brown paper bags will usually change the minds of even the most ardent complainer.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 4, 2014)

peterkro said:


> If they'd had any experience or even research they'd have approached the nearby residents and made someone available for any problems.
> This could have alerted them to noise before the council was alerted.Anything from free drinks to brown paper bags will usually change the minds of even the most ardent complainer.


The neighbours probably aren't the "right" kind of people though. Probably insufficiently avant garde to be worth caring about.


----------



## peterkro (Jun 4, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> The neighbours probably aren't the "right" kind of people though. Probably not sufficiently avant garde to be worth caring about.


Yes I agree,it's pretty easy to see that you need make the locals sweet if you are going to run a successful nightclub/bar, not doing it shows a breathtaking lack of awareness.


----------



## Supine (Jun 4, 2014)

peterkro said:


> Anything from free drinks to brown paper bags will usually change the minds of even the most ardent complainer.



You obviously don't know what your talking about.


----------



## peterkro (Jun 4, 2014)

Supine said:


> You obviously don't know what your talking about.


You think?


----------



## Supine (Jun 4, 2014)

Yep, I've got lots of experience of dealing with venues and noise complaints. I know it isn't easy to appease people who are losing sleep because other people are having noisy fun.


----------



## peterkro (Jun 4, 2014)

Good for you,I don't think it always works but surprising enough often it does.I have lots of experience of dealing with council officers and local residents as regards noise and most people would be surprised by the "real politic" and the solutions thereof.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 4, 2014)

Supine said:


> I know it isn't easy to appease people who are losing sleep because other people are having noisy fun.


Quite right too! Although I do believe it depends who was there first.....


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 4, 2014)

Manter said:


> It's an interesting one. I know tesco does some very bad stuff, but they involved in some innovative programmes to build homes above new stores and release homes from above existing stores. I wish more corporates would consider it



Tesco only did so after they'd worked out that they'd garner considerable benefits with regard to access to developable land, and to significant profits.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 4, 2014)

Supine said:


> I'm not surprised with the bitchy attitudes from a lot of people on this thread!



teuchter liked your post, which goes to show how shite your post was.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 4, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Can you juggle?



That's not really a question one should ask a chap outside of the _boudoir_, dontcherknow!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 4, 2014)

editor said:


> I could wear a funny hat.



A nice big woolly Tam?


----------



## Manter (Jun 4, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Tesco only did so after they'd worked out that they'd garner considerable benefits with regard to access to developable land, and to significant profits.


Oh yes, I'd expect no different. Planners and regulators need to make it worth corporates' time to investigate, but the corporates also have to be interested. I'm not expecting anyone to do anything from charitable motives


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 4, 2014)

Manter said:


> Oh yes, I'd expect no different. Planners and regulators need to make it worth corporates' time to investigate, but the corporates also have to be interested. I'm not expecting anyone to do anything from charitable motives



See, there's where we differ.  I expect (foolishly, obviously!) corporates to give back a little of what they take, and not just through the "Tesco Price Promise", either!


----------



## Manter (Jun 4, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> See, there's where we differ.  I expect (foolishly, obviously!) corporates to give back a little of what they take, and not just through the "Tesco Price Promise", either!


I expect corporates to give back, but I'm realistic about what that means.  Putting houses above a Tesco involves legal issues, insurance, building regs, design changes, access issues, noise and waste, changes to the ownership model, and finance model (off the top of my head).  I can't see a corporate taking that on for the first time unless there was something in it for them.  In 5 years' time negotiations'll look different and they may be more inclined to offer more, as they will have a better idea of cost


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jun 4, 2014)

Manter said:


> I expect corporates to give back, but I'm realistic about what that means.  Putting houses above a Tesco involves legal issues, insurance, building regs, design changes, access issues, noise and waste, changes to the ownership model, and finance model (off the top of my head).  I can't see a corporate taking that on for the first time unless there was something in it for them.  In 5 years' time negotiations'll look different and they may be more inclined to offer more, as they will have a better idea of cost



I think there is also some sort of tax relief if they build homes on the site.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 4, 2014)

and captive customers of course
tenancy revoked if caught with shopping from a competitor


----------



## Manter (Jun 4, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I think there is also some sort of tax relief if they build homes on the site.


I think that's recent and part of the 2011 changes to encourage mixed use developments and more homes- I saw something about in the parliamentary doc I linked to ^^


----------



## deadringer (Jun 5, 2014)

editor said:


> The last thing they want to do is listen to potential customers.





ddraig said:


> the invaluable free advice and feedback from potential customers outweighs that




Yep this thread is positively dripping with potential customers......


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 5, 2014)

deadringer said:


> Yep this thread is positively dripping with potential customers......


you say that, but actually i love going out in herne hill, *and* i buy vintage furniture, *and* i'm a decently-paid creative professional (blech), *and* i'm dissatisfied by traditional pubs...   BUT exclusivity?  I'd be ashamed to be seen somewhere that excluded the hoi polloi...


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## teuchter (Jun 6, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> you say that, but actually i love going out in herne hill, *and* i buy vintage furniture, *and* i'm a decently-paid creative professional (blech), *and* i'm dissatisfied by traditional pubs...   BUT exclusivity?  I'd be ashamed to be seen somewhere that excluded the hoi polloi...


So you'd be ashamed to be seen anywhere with a cover charge, or in a restaurant, or at a gig, or at the theatre, or in the cinema, or anything like that?


----------



## MrSki (Jun 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> So you'd be ashamed to be seen anywhere with a cover charge, or in a restaurant, or at a gig, or at the theatre, or in the cinema, or anything like that?


Since when have restaurants, venues, theatres or cinemas required exclusive membership?


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## editor (Jun 6, 2014)

deadringer said:


> Yep this thread is positively dripping with potential customers......


Actually, I'm always interested in new venues that support the local live music scene and look after musicians properly, but I'm not interested enough to pay a membership fee to go into a not-exactly-attractive 'exclusive' railway arch with a limited choice of expensive beer.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> So you'd be ashamed to be seen anywhere with a cover charge, or in a restaurant, or at a gig, or at the theatre, or in the cinema, or anything like that?


Is it really the same?

In a restaurant/theatre/gig I'm paying for a product, and the ticket price/bill has a clear relationship to the costs and profit margins involved.  In a bar, those costs and profit margins are met by the alcohol sales, so what is the payment *for*...?


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## teuchter (Jun 6, 2014)

It doesn't matter what it's "for" - I'm just saying that if a £10 member fee "excludes the hoi polloi" on financial grounds then so does the cost of the other things I mentioned.

It seems a bit of an empty gesture to refuse to go in this place for that reason, whilst carrying on doing all the other things that many people can't afford.

There seems to be a kind of value judgement going on about what particular luxuries people may spend their disposable income on. Why pay for a restaurant meal? You could make a meal with the same nutritional value at home for a tiny fraction of the cost. What you are paying "for" is a similar non-essential luxury that many people are excluded from because they couldn't afford it. You can't even just go and sit in a restaurant to soak up the ambience for free. You have to pay a premium on food to be allowed in.


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## mango5 (Jun 6, 2014)

Oh teuchter


----------



## prunus (Jun 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> It doesn't matter what it's "for" - I'm just saying that if a £10 member fee "excludes the hoi polloi" on financial grounds then so does the cost of the other things I mentioned.
> 
> It seems a bit of an empty gesture to refuse to go in this place for that reason, whilst carrying on doing all the other things that many people can't afford.
> 
> There seems to be a kind of value judgement going on about what particular luxuries people may spend their disposable income on. Why pay for a restaurant meal? You could make a meal with the same nutritional value at home for a tiny fraction of the cost. What you are paying "for" is a similar non-essential luxury that many people are excluded from because they couldn't afford it. You can't even just go and sit in a restaurant to soak up the ambience for free. You have to pay a premium on food to be allowed in.



It's not the magnitude of the cost, it's more (for me) that the stated aim of the cost is specifically to exclude people [of the 'wrong' type]. This attitude is very off putting.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 6, 2014)

A value judgement? God forbid.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 6, 2014)

A teuchter, yesterday:


----------



## teuchter (Jun 6, 2014)

prunus said:


> It's not the magnitude of the cost, it's more (for me) that the stated aim of the cost is specifically to exclude people [of the 'wrong' type]. This attitude is very off putting.


There is an urban75 assumption about who they want to exclude and why though, namely that they don’t want to let the poor people in. That has been read into what they have said. Maybe I have misunderstood what spanglechick meant by the "hoi polloi" but I take that to mean pricing out the plebs.
Their wanky prose doesn't particularly attract me but I can understand the reasons why you might want to tailor your punters by means of a cover charge if you want to offer something different from a standard pub. And it's not to do with affluence but more to do with age group, drinking habits and so on. And as they say themselves, people who are likely to stay for the whole night.


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## teuchter (Jun 6, 2014)

In actual fact I'd guess that who they largely want to exclude are the street-vomiting braying binge drinking claphamite twenty-something toffs that folk so like to complain about elsewhere in the brixton forum.


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## ddraig (Jun 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> There is an urban75 assumption about who they want to exclude and why though, namely that they don’t want to let the poor people in. That has been read into what they have said. Maybe I have misunderstood what spanglechick meant by the "hoi polloi" but I take that to mean pricing out the plebs.
> Their wanky prose doesn't particularly attract me but I can understand the reasons why you might want to tailor your punters by means of a cover charge if you want to offer something different from a standard pub. And it's not to do with affluence but more to do with age group, drinking habits and so on. And as they say themselves, people who are likely to stay for the whole night.


are you turning into Sas in your old age??
just because a few people object to a membership charge it does not make it "an urban75 assumption" there are others who don't seem to mind it and then you with your desperate defence to the death of this place
are you not part of urban75? however much of a pickety pain in the arse you are?


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## ddraig (Jun 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> In actual fact I'd guess that who they largely want to exclude are the street-vomiting braying binge drinking claphamite twenty-something toffs that folk so like to complain about elsewhere in the brixton forum.


how does this work when they'll have the money and be attracted to such places?


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## kl8041 (Jun 6, 2014)

leanderman said:


> poker! deal me in



I would absolutely pay £10 a month for somewhere that ran a decent poker game once a week, say, on a Tuesday evening. Not sure what sort of game you could run without a proper gambling license, be but pretty sure you could at least run a low-stakes league affiliated with Red Tooth and the like?


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## prunus (Jun 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> In actual fact I'd guess that who they largely want to exclude are the street-vomiting braying binge drinking claphamite twenty-something toffs that folk so like to complain about elsewhere in the brixton forum.



Yeah, because charging a tenner and being branded as 'exclusive' is soooooo offputting to those people


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> It doesn't matter what it's "for" - I'm just saying that if a £10 member fee "excludes the hoi polloi" on financial grounds then so does the cost of the other things I mentioned.
> 
> It seems a bit of an empty gesture to refuse to go in this place for that reason, whilst carrying on doing all the other things that many people can't afford.
> 
> There seems to be a kind of value judgement going on about what particular luxuries people may spend their disposable income on. Why pay for a restaurant meal? You could make a meal with the same nutritional value at home for a tiny fraction of the cost. What you are paying "for" is a similar non-essential luxury that many people are excluded from because they couldn't afford it. You can't even just go and sit in a restaurant to soak up the ambience for free. You have to pay a premium on food to be allowed in.



The point is that it's a particular kind of extravagance to spend a tenner on absolutely nothing.


----------



## editor (Jun 6, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> The point is that it's a particular kind of extravagance to spend a tenner on absolutely nothing.


You'd be buying 'exclusivity' from the Herne Hill scum and the right to use a _separate entrance_ to an uninspiring railway arch that's flogging second hand furniture. Money well spent then.


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## teuchter (Jun 6, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> The point is that it's a particular kind of extravagance to spend a tenner on absolutely nothing.


It's not "absolutely nothing".


----------



## teuchter (Jun 6, 2014)

editor said:


> You'd be buying 'exclusivity' from the Herne Hill *scum* and the right to use a _separate entrance_ to an uninspiring railway arch that's flogging second hand furniture. Money well spent then.



*sigh*

It's a bit two-faced to wish them well with their venture, and then also accuse them of branding people as "scum", isn't it?


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## teuchter (Jun 6, 2014)

prunus said:


> Yeah, because charging a tenner and being branded as 'exclusive' is soooooo offputting to those people


Who, specifically, do you think they want to exclude, and why?


----------



## Badgers (Jun 6, 2014)

kl8041 said:
			
		

> I would absolutely pay £10 a month for somewhere that ran a decent poker game once a week, say, on a Tuesday evening. Not sure what sort of game you could run without a proper gambling license, be but pretty sure you could at least run a low-stakes league affiliated with Red Tooth and the like?



Red Tooth you say?


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## ddraig (Jun 6, 2014)

read it again dear boy
slowly without frothing, maybe you'll understand it this time


----------



## editor (Jun 6, 2014)

ddraig said:


> read it again dear boy
> slowly without frothing, maybe you'll understand it this time


I fear he's lost it completely now.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 6, 2014)

teuchter said:


> It's not "absolutely nothing".


What, beyond what is generally offered for no extra fee, are you buying for your tenner?


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 6, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> What, beyond what is generally offered for no extra fee, are you buying for your tenner?


The ability to don a hat in a bar with likeminded hat donners... And access to Aldi cheese.

What more do you want?!?!


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## ddraig (Jun 6, 2014)

cheap at twice the price!


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## kl8041 (Jun 6, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Red Tooth you say?



Yep a link would have helped, apologies.. Redtooth is a pub poker league, low-stakes organised games, winners from your local pub/bar go in to a regional finals every few months, winner from that head to Vegas, etc.. really just an excuse to have an organised weekly game with a leaderboard/etc.

Their website probably has a better explanation than my rambling: www.   redtoothpoker. com


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## deadringer (Jun 6, 2014)

The bar sounds like my idea of hell, I couldn't think of anywhere less I'd rather spend a Friday or Saturday night, let alone a week night, but each to their own. But to listen to some of the sour faced lemon suckers bleating on about exclusion.......... Not every bar is going to be to everyone's tastes, not every bar is charging £10p/m, live with it, go to another bar ffs.

They've come on here, said something along the lines of 'We're planning to do this and that, it's going to be free for a month, if you like what you see and feel it's worth a tenner a month to come down on a Friday or Saturday after that it's up to you'

Bar in my old town was closed for a year, had  refit, and opened up with a similar plan, £50 or £100 membership to que jump, free entry or what not, and some other meaningless bits and bobs. No one / hardly anyone took it up and it was quietly dropped. OTC bar could well get a month or two in, decide the membership thing isn't working out, and go in a different direction.


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## Smick (Jun 6, 2014)

deadringer said:


> The bar sounds like my idea of hell, I couldn't think of anywhere less I'd rather spend a Friday or Saturday night, let alone a week night, but each to their own. But to listen to some of the sour faced lemon suckers bleating on about exclusion.......... Not every bar is going to be to everyone's tastes, not every bar is charging £10p/m, live with it, go to another bar ffs.
> 
> They've come on here, said something along the lines of 'We're planning to do this and that, it's going to be free for a month, if you like what you see and feel it's worth a tenner a month to come down on a Friday or Saturday after that it's up to you'
> 
> Bar in my old town was closed for a year, had  refit, and opened up with a similar plan, £50 or £100 membership to que jump, free entry or what not, and some other meaningless bits and bobs. No one / hardly anyone took it up and it was quietly dropped. OTC bar could well get a month or two in, decide the membership thing isn't working out, and go in a different direction.



As a matter of interest, did they refund the fee to those who had paid prior to membership being scrapped?


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## deadringer (Jun 6, 2014)

No idea. Anyone stupid enough to pay a years membership upfront for a half decent bar probably isn't too worried about it. People sign up for gyms all the time with a membership and never go.


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## uk benzo (Jun 6, 2014)

editor said:


> You'd be buying 'exclusivity' from the Herne Hill scum and the right to use a _separate entrance_ to an uninspiring railway arch that's flogging second hand furniture. Money well spent then.



Tories are scum. Investment banks are scum. The Sun and Daily Mail are scum. But a small bar under a railway bridge scum? Really?


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## equationgirl (Jun 6, 2014)

The monthly membership plan appears to have disappeared from their website, only the £100/year option is available.


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## Frances Lengel (Jun 6, 2014)

I'm not defending OTC bar but I'm fairly sure if half the joints frequented by people on this thread let me and my mates in they'd charge an entry fee/membership as well.

/riff raff.


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## editor (Jun 7, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> Tories are scum. Investment banks are scum. The Sun and Daily Mail are scum. But a small bar under a railway bridge scum? Really?


You appear to have wonderfully misread the pisstaking tone of the post. Oh well.


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## Smick (Jun 7, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> Tories are scum. Investment banks are scum. The Sun and Daily Mail are scum. But a small bar under a railway bridge scum? Really?


 
I took it to mean that the scum are those who don't have enough disposal cash to drop £100 to allow you to give someone your patronage. otc allows you to avoid such povvos if you've got the £100, but the post made no direct reference to the bar owners.


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## editor (Jun 7, 2014)

Smick said:


> I took it to mean that the scum are those who don't have enough disposal cash to drop £100 to allow you to give someone your patronage. otc allows you to avoid such povvos if you've got the £100, but the post made no direct reference to the bar owners.


I was exaggerating the tone adopted by the owners who have made a big point of saying how their on-message, fee paying clientele will be protected in a safe and secure environment. If you read the thread through, you'll see several posters wondering why they've felt it necessary to make that a big point of their publicity, given how relatively quiet the area is.


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## Smick (Jun 7, 2014)

editor said:


> I was exaggerating the tone adopted by the owners who have made a big point of saying how their on-message, fee paying clientele will be protected in a safe and secure environment. If you read the thread through, you'll see several posters wondering why they've felt it necessary to make that a big point of their publicity, given how relatively quiet the area is.


I think it was quite obvious that you were not referring to the owners or customers of OTC.


----------



## editor (Jun 7, 2014)

Smick said:


> I think it was quite obvious that you were not referring to the owners or customers of OTC.


You've lost me completely now I'm afraid (sorry! maybe it's the sun), but just in case there's any lingering confusion in anyone's mind, let me make it abundantly clear. I do not think the people who elect not to spend £100/month to gain exclusive use of a door to a railway arch are scum, and never have. I don't think the owners or their customers are scum either.

My reference was a sarcastic comment to what some may have perceived to be the owner's perception of those people, given the importance they stressed on providing a "safe and secure" area for the customers.


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## Mrs Miggins (Jun 7, 2014)

If they put on their website which wines and cheeses they have this week and what film they are showing on their "Arches Film Society" and what bands are going to be on on Thursday, I might actually pop in. But alas.....


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## Dexter Deadwood (Jun 7, 2014)

In a few weeks it will be gone, not even a footnote in the annals of Herne Hill history.


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## equationgirl (Jun 7, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> If they put on their website which wines and cheeses they have this week and what film they are showing on their "Arches Film Society" and what bands are going to be on on Thursday, I might actually pop in. But alas.....


It is on their website, if you click on the cheese icon on the front page you get:


> Cheese
> Spanish goat cheese
> De la Hus - Spain
> American Provolone
> ...



And the wine glass icon gives:


> Wine Bottle  Glass
> Verdejo/Sauvignon Volteo £19.00 £6.00
> Cabernet 2012 - Nicholas Choblet £21.00 £6.50
> Primo Brut - Nino Franco £30.00 £7.00
> ...


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## prunus (Jun 7, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> It is on their website, if you click on the cheese icon on the front page you get:
> 
> 
> And the wine glass icon gives:



Locally sourced cheeses, mind


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## equationgirl (Jun 7, 2014)

Like I locally source my provisions I expect


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## teuchter (Jun 9, 2014)

editor said:


> You've lost me completely now I'm afraid (sorry! maybe it's the sun), but just in case there's any lingering confusion in anyone's mind, let me make it abundantly clear. I do not think the people who elect not to spend £100/month to gain exclusive use of a door to a railway arch are scum, and never have. I don't think the owners or their customers are scum either.
> 
> My reference was a sarcastic comment to what some may have perceived to be the owner's perception of those people, given the importance they stressed on providing a "safe and secure" area for the customers.


So do you also "percieve the owner's perception of those people" to be one where they regard them as scum, or it is that you were commenting that "some" people might percieve the owner's perception to be such, but that you recognise that such a perception is unfounded?

(Probability of straight answer to this question: approx. 5%)


----------



## editor (Jun 9, 2014)

teuchter said:


> So do you also "percieve the owner's perception of those people" to be one where they regard them as scum, or it is that you were commenting that "some" people might percieve the owner's perception to be such, but that you recognise that such a perception is unfounded?
> 
> (Probability of straight answer to this question: approx. 5%)


Probability of you presenting an honest question = 0%, so you'll have to do your tedious shit-stirring elsewhere.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 9, 2014)

editor said:


> tedious shit-stirring



That's how I'd describe throwing in a comment about people regarding other members of their community as "scum", and then wriggling out of providing a clarification of your position.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 9, 2014)

german cheddar? how unpatriotic


(makes note to seek out german cheddar and compare with english)


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## editor (Jun 9, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> german cheddar? how unpatriotic
> 
> 
> (makes note to seek out german cheddar and compare with english)


It has to be better than American cheese. Guaranteed.


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## se5 (Jun 11, 2014)

I see our favourite exclusive Herne Hill venue had its licence application considered this evening - http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=116&MId=8987&Ver=4

There was objection by Lambeth licensing to the temporary licence application -owners "have a blatant disregard for licensing rules"- but it looks like the objection was overruled (I think?)


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## Smick (Jun 11, 2014)

se5 said:


> I see our favourite exclusive Herne Hill venue had its licence application considered this evening - http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=116&MId=8987&Ver=4
> 
> There was objection by Lambeth licensing to the temporary licence application -owners "have a blatant disregard for licensing rules"- but it looks like the objection was overruled (I think?)



 I'd hate to see the business go under on a licensing technicality, doing something which so many other businesses do as business as usual.

If their business model is flawed, let it fail. But not over this.


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## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

So that's where having a blatant disregard for the rules gets you.  Nice.


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## Smick (Jun 12, 2014)

But the rules are idiotic across alcohol licensing.

All this shite about licensing when people are doing exactly the same three doors away.

To me it just looks like a lot of well paid busybodies carrying out checks and imposing restrictions but at the end of the day, people are still getting pickled on Spesh in the park.


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## Rushy (Jun 12, 2014)

editor said:


> So that's where having a blatant disregard for the rules gets you.  Nice.


Wasn't Kaff's existence recently under threat for not complying with licensing recommendations in relation to noise?


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Wasn't Kaff's existence recently under threat for not complying with licensing recommendations in relation to noise?


Not sure why you're bringing up Kaff here. Is it because I like the place?

Anyway, it's a thoroughly spurious comparison seeing as Kaff displayed _anything but _a "blatant disregard for the rules." They worked very hard to sort out any problems with both the council and local residents (with whom I understand they have a good relationship).


----------



## T & P (Jun 12, 2014)

Frankly editor, given your (commendable) sentiments regarding music and entertainment venues being under constant threat from nimby types and overzealous council authorities, I'm rather surprised at your comments.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2014)

They were being continually report bombed by a certain lady from a shop across the road (who does not even live there) so I suspect the majority of the complaints came from the same few people (which is likely to be taken into consideration by the board).

I am glad they have their license and can at least make a go of things.  If it is not my scene I won't go there.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

T & P said:


> Frankly editor, given your (commendable) sentiments regarding music and entertainment venues being under constant threat from nimby types and overzealous council authorities, I'm rather surprised at your comments.


Forgive me, but I can't get that worked up about defending a £100-entry private members club run by stroppy owners who misuse the word 'community' in their quest to get what they want.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

Fingers said:


> They were being continually report bombed by a certain lady from a shop across the road (who does not even live there) so I suspect the majority of the complaints came from the same few people (which is likely to be taken into consideration by the board).
> 
> I am glad they have their license and can at least make a go of things.  If it is not my scene I won't go there.


I'm glad that they're allowed to stay open too and I remain hopeful they will adjust their attitude and policy to make it a place that is genuinely welcoming to _all_ of the community, not just ones who can afford to blow £100/year for exclusive membership.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 12, 2014)

editor said:


> So that's where having a blatant disregard for the rules gets you.  Nice.





editor said:


> I'm glad that they're allowed to stay open



Which one is it, then?


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Which one is it, then?


The one just over there, around the back. To the left. A bit further. Yes, that's it.


----------



## Rushy (Jun 12, 2014)

editor said:


> Not sure why you're bringing up Kaff here. Is it because I like the place?
> 
> Anyway, it's a thoroughly spurious comparison seeing as Kaff displayed _anything but _a "blatant disregard for the rules." They worked very hard to sort out any problems with both the council and local residents (with whom I understand they have a good relationship).



We both like Kaff. I make reference to them because their treatment by licensing was a topic of discussion which you recently felt moved to publicise on these boards and you concluded that licensing was set on destroying Brixton venues with their heavy handed approach. On the face of it, this seems to contrast strongly with your apparent disapproval of the "lenient" treatment of Off the Cuff, who you imply should not be allowed to get away with what you seem to agree is "blatant disregard of the rules" in their first month by being granted their permanent licence.

Kaff purchased their licence so they did not need to go through the application process. It was not until after Kaff had been open a couple of months that they wrote to all the neighbours apologising for not having been in touch before, saying they were aware Kaff was causing a nuisance but that this was inevitable because they were a new venue and needed to established their noise limitations, which they claimed were hard to gauge.

Kaff themselves said that they had identified that the main problem was entrance doors opening and closing without a sound lobby and lack of double glazing. They added that it would take a while to sort this because this was a personal venture and consequently they did not have much money but asked people to understand their particular situation and bear with them in the meantime. They also presented these undertakings to licensing when applying to extend their license and licensing accepted these undertakings.

You were outraged last year when noise control got involved after they received noise complaints and threatened to take action (licence review) because several of the undertakings had not been actioned 18months year later. It's now almost three years and, despite having the funds available to bid on sites for opening a second Brixton venue, the improvements have still not been actioned.

On top of this - let's not forget that three years in, Kaff is still blatantly disregarding their planning permission which conditions midnight closure (11pm Sun-Thurs), prohibits noise being audible outside the premises and only permits A3 usage. 

Those are hardly spurious comparisons. Both have been winging it. As have loads of venues. I'd say that the only real difference between the two is that Kaff management are far more charming and consequently much better at saying the right thing at the right time.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

Rushy said:


> We both like Kaff. I make reference to them because their treatment by licensing was a topic of discussion which you recently felt moved to publicise on these boards and you concluded that licensing was set on destroying Brixton venues with their heavy handed approach. On the face of it, this seems to contrast strongly with your apparent disapproval of the "lenient" treatment of Off the Cuff, who you imply should not be allowed to get away with what you seem to agree is "blatant disregard of the rules" in their first month by being granted their permanent licence.


To me there's a very big difference, and that's down to the attitude of the owners and the nature of the bar.

Kaff went out of their way to consult with the neighbours, and of course it's  bar that is open to all. On the other hand, OTC is a private, members only bar, demanding £100/year just to get in the place on weekends, and the arrogant attitude of the owners seemed to annoy several posters here.

I still think it's very petty of you to drag Kaff into this and make a point of broadcasting what you think are their breaches in planning use. But hey - if I like the place, then they're fair game, eh?


----------



## teuchter (Jun 12, 2014)

It's those with the less polished PR that seem to get the most hassle from the u75 hate machine.

Here we are with 40 bile-fueled pages about a small, independent venture set up by a couple of individuals which effectively charges a £10 cover charge on the weekend for entry to a late-opening bar with live music.

Meanwhile, a thread about Antic, a large operation with multiple venues and presumably a rather wealthy owner, dodging taxes and leaving people unpaid, gets 24 replies.

Antic are a polished operation, saying the right things on their website and making no attempt to engage with criticism on here. OTC on the other hand, are less experienced in the business, have a somewhat cringeworthy website, and got a bit "stroppy" when faced with a large amount of hostile comment on their attempt to represent themselves directly on these forums.

Good PR - it works.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

"u75 hate machine"


----------



## teuchter (Jun 12, 2014)

editor said:


> But hey - if I like the place, then they're fair game, eh?



They are no more or less "fair game" than OTC, regardless of who does or doesn't like them.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Here we are with 40 bile-fueled pages about a small, independent venture set up by a couple of individuals which effectively charges a £10 cover charge on the weekend for entry to a late-opening bar with live music.


Nice twisty  interpretation that, but it's *nothing* like how they actually described their venture or their club ethos. But you know that anyway.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Good PR - it works.


Talking to your neighbours and connecting to the local community - it works.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 12, 2014)

editor said:


> "u75 hate machine"


It exists.


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

Crispy said:


> It exists.


A 'machine', yes?


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 12, 2014)

More like a pedant.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 12, 2014)

editor said:


> A 'machine', yes?


Jesus


----------



## Rushy (Jun 12, 2014)

editor said:


> To me there's a very big difference, and that's down to the attitude of the owners and the nature of the bar.
> 
> Kaff went out of their way to consult with the neighbours, and of course it's  bar that is open to all. On the other hand, OTC is a private, members only bar, demanding £100/year just to get in the place on weekends, and the arrogant attitude of the owners seemed to annoy several posters here.
> 
> I still think it's very petty of you to drag Kaff into this and make a point of broadcasting what you think are their breaches in planning use. But hey - if I like the place, then they're fair game, eh?



The positive attitude of the owners is recorded as having been taken into consideration by licensing and noise control in accepting their undertakings. It was their failure to take the action they had undertaken to in a reasonable time - the improvements which they had asked neighbours to bear with them until they could afford - which led to their being tackled by noise control 18 months later.

I think the biggest problems with bars and clubs are caused by their failure to keep to licensing and planning conditions. It does not just cause problems for residents but for other venues too, so I see no problem in these being discussed openly. Do you?


----------



## editor (Jun 12, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I think the biggest problems with bars and clubs are caused by their failure to keep to licensing and planning conditions. It does not just cause problems for residents but for other venues too, so I see no problem in these being discussed openly. Do you?


I'm happy to have that discussion where appropriate, but you've only brought up Kaff here to score a personal point. But I'd wish there were more new bars like Kaff - ones that actively engage with their neighbours and local community and ones who are quick to volunteer their services for fund raisers and community events, and which don't require  expensive membership  schemes.


----------



## kl8041 (Jun 12, 2014)

Fingers said:


> They were being continually report bombed by a certain lady from a shop across the road (who does not even live there) so I suspect the majority of the complaints came from the same few people (which is likely to be taken into consideration by the board).



I heard this independently.. another curious thing is that the shop in question across the road appears to be open when OTC is closed, and vica-versa. And only opens three days a week most weeks  And has a bit of a track-record when it comes to this kind of thing.  All complete hearsay, but amazingly vicious actions to take if true, especially if someone else's livelihoods are at stake as is (presumably) the case with OTC. 

I still intend to pop my head in and ask about poker.


----------



## Fingers (Jun 12, 2014)

kl8041 said:


> I heard this independently.. another curious thing is that the shop in question across the road appears to be open when OTC is closed, and vica-versa. And only opens three days a week most weeks  And has a bit of a track-record when it comes to this kind of thing.  All complete hearsay, but amazingly vicious actions to take if true, especially if someone else's livelihoods are at stake as is (presumably) the case with OTC.
> 
> I still intend to pop my head in and ask about poker.



Yup that would be the same person.


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 12, 2014)

But posts on FB would suggest that there's a bunch of young people who also live nearby who made noise complaints too.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 12, 2014)

Crispy said:


> It exists.



...and its' name is teuchter.


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 12, 2014)

Really, why bother with that post?


----------



## gabi (Jun 12, 2014)

What a shit thread. Massive hypocrisy though is what keeps this site going. It's car crash internet.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 12, 2014)

Crispy said:


> It exists.


 
It's pretty mild on this thread though IMO. A lot of the descriptions of the 'angry mob' ganging up have been as OTT as any actual criticism. There's not been much in the way of flaming torches.


----------



## Winot (Jun 12, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm happy to have that discussion where appropriate, but you've only brought up Kaff here to score a personal point. But I'd wish there were more new bars like Kaff - ones that actively engage with their neighbours and local community and ones who are quick to volunteer their services for fund raisers and community events, and which don't require  expensive membership  schemes.



Let's imagine that someone other than Rushy (that you don't have any beef with) has made exactly the same points.  How would you respond to them?

Leaving aside whether or not there is any animosity, I'd say that some reasonable points have been made.


----------



## leanderman (Jun 12, 2014)

gabi said:


> What a shit thread. Massive hypocrisy though is what keeps this site going. It's car crash internet.



It's not even in Brixton


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 12, 2014)

leanderman said:


> It's not even in Brixton


Yeah it is. East Brixton


----------



## Crispy (Jun 12, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Yeah it is. East Brixton


Your compass is broken


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 12, 2014)

These things never make sense. Look at that part of Further East Brixton: Dulwich


----------



## teuchter (Jun 12, 2014)

Herne Hill is South Brixton.

Brixton is West Loughborough Junction.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 12, 2014)

South East then.
Direct south is surely West Norwood?
(I refuse to consult a map for this)


----------



## Smick (Jun 12, 2014)

I'd imagine directly South is Streatham. Right down the A23.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 13, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Really, why bother with that post?



Really, why not?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 13, 2014)

double post


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 13, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> It's pretty mild on this thread though IMO. A lot of the descriptions of the 'angry mob' ganging up have been as OTT as any actual criticism. There's not been much in the way of flaming torches.



If there had been, we'd be talking about OTCbar in the past tense, as well as a host of "new-ish" emporia around the area that are still there, despite the angst on Urban.
Like you say, reports of "angry mobs" may have been exaggerated.  I wonder who by, and why?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 13, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Yeah it is. East Brixton



North-east.  Directly east is more Dulwichy.


----------



## buscador (Jun 13, 2014)

Crispy said:


> Your compass is broken



The NHS' compass is broken too then. My GP's surgery is on Herne Hill, in East Brixton.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 13, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> It is on their website, if you click on the cheese icon on the front page you get:
> 
> 
> And the wine glass icon gives:


 ah! well it looks like I'm the fucking idiot after all!


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 13, 2014)

I haven't looked at a map for a while but it looks to me like Herne Hill is South East Brixton


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 13, 2014)

Are you all saying Herne Hill isn't the centre of the universe? Heresy.


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 13, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Really, why not?



Because it just came across and snide, petty and slightly vindictive. Perhaps that's just the internet as a medium though.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 13, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> Her*n*esy.


.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 13, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> ah! well it looks like I'm the fucking idiot after all!


It's not immediately obvious, you're not an idiot!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 13, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Because it just came across and snide, petty and slightly vindictive. Perhaps that's just the internet as a medium though.


Or perhaps you're spinning your own *preferences, predelictions and prejudices into the equation?

*Doubtless you'll view my saying this as snide, petty and slightly vindictive.


----------



## editor (Jun 13, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Because it just came across and snide, petty and slightly vindictive. Perhaps that's just the internet as a medium though.


Snide, petty and slightly vindictive is the default setting for some posters here!


----------



## Badgers (Jun 13, 2014)

editor said:
			
		

> Snide, petty and slightly vindictive is the default setting for some posters here!



Shut it grandad


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 13, 2014)

H





ViolentPanda said:


> *Doubtless you'll view my saying this as snide, petty and slightly vindictive.



That's a fair point, I just get a bit bored that a valuable, fun place I come to daily is often typified by behaviour and cliques that I'd expect from 13 year old girls from Sydenham High. As I said before it's probably the heightened emotions / that escalated quickly meme that online fora perpetuate. I'm sure I'm as guilty as any; and it's common for me to come on here angry with some other Brixton incident and vent at whomever I disagree with who has recently posted.

Probably the same protectivism editor has conveyed in different ways. Anyway have a sunny weekend.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 13, 2014)

editor said:


> Snide, petty and slightly vindictive



That'd be great on some new Urban75 t-shirts


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 13, 2014)

Ha, as long as I can get credit for that, you're welcome to it. 

OTC is still closed - not seen the gates open for a couple of weeks. Even the commercial was quiet earlier - I guess the lack of street seating means the regent is more attractive - I only knew a small handfull of people who'd managed to bag an outside table there tonight, with the regulars watching Mexico indoors. Guessing friendofdorothy & buscador were still in stockwell.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 14, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Ha, as long as I can get credit for that, you're welcome to it.
> 
> OTC is still closed - not seen the gates open for a couple of weeks. Even the commercial was quiet earlier - I guess the lack of street seating means the regent is more attractive - I only knew a small handfull of people who'd managed to bag an outside table there tonight, with the regulars watching Mexico indoors. Guessing friendofdorothy & buscador were still in stockwell.



Are you stalking us? 
We were having a great time with some urbs at a disappointing pub in South Norwood. Then desparate for some real ale we went for a late night pint at the Commercial where we saw a few locals. One of whom X was telling us that OTC was great 'like Herne Hill late night drinking holes of years ago' that the guy running it is a decent local chap and that we would fit right in and feel welcome. He thought it was a 'local bar for local people' X isn't on the net and had no idea of the online controversy about the place and was surprised and dissapointed when we told him about discussions here. 

Says OTC has lost its license but that they are reapplying, so it is closed at the moment. So I may give it a go if it reopens.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 14, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> H
> 
> That's a fair point, I just get a bit bored that a valuable, fun place I come to daily is often typified by behaviour and cliques that I'd expect from 13 year old girls from Sydenham High.



I try not to expect anything from 13 year old girls, personally... 



> As I said before it's probably the heightened emotions / that escalated quickly meme that online fora perpetuate. I'm sure I'm as guilty as any; and it's common for me to come on here angry with some other Brixton incident and vent at whomever I disagree with who has recently posted.
> 
> Probably the same protectivism editor has conveyed in different ways. Anyway have a sunny weekend.



Thanks for the sentiment, even though I'm not a sun-lover (one of my medications makes my skin photo-sensitive, so the brighter it is, the more factor 50 has to go on).


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 14, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> Are you stalking us?
> We were having a great time with some urbs at a disappointing pub in South Norwood. Then desparate for some real ale we went for a late night pint at the Commercial where we saw a few locals. One of whom X was telling us that OTC was great 'like Herne Hill late night drinking holes of years ago' that the guy running it is a decent local chap and that we would fit right in and feel welcome. He thought it was a 'local bar for local people' X isn't on the net and had no idea of the online controversy about the place and was surprised and dissapointed when we told him about discussions here.
> 
> Says OTC has lost its license but that they are reapplying, so it is closed at the moment. So I may give it a go if it reopens.



What I've heard from the Half Moon refugees over the road is that they're largely clueless chancers more than anything. 

That and something that has already been deleted from this thread as potentially libelous.


----------



## buscador (Jun 14, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> What I've heard from the Half Moon refugees over the road is that they're largely clueless chancers more than anything.



Oddly enough I was chatting to someone who had been in OTC and "chancers" was precisely the word he used to describe the owners.


----------



## Rushy (Jun 14, 2014)

Chancers eh? Well, well, well. Tuttity tut. What is Brixton and its environs coming to?


----------



## teuchter (Jun 14, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Because it just came across and snide, petty and slightly vindictive. Perhaps that's just the internet as a medium though.


He's got the hump because I told him off for some oafish sexism on another thread.


----------



## Brainaddict (Jun 14, 2014)

Speaking of petty, I can stay silent about the title of this thread no longer. I dislike intensely seeing the phrase 'soft launch parties' on the boards all the time. I am unsure if my dislike is because I feel it exposes me to a jargon of professional events management that could pollute our language in the same way management-speak does. Or if it is because of the linguistically offensive juxtaposition of the word 'soft' with the word 'launch', which in the context of events is clearly meant to be a thrusting, dynamic word - it's like saying 'soft hard'. Or if it is because of the creepy cuddliness of the word 'soft', rather than something more descriptive. Possibly it is some combination of the three. But I don't find it acceptable, whatever the reason. I have a sense of proportion - I'm not going to suggest the writer should be hung, drawn and quartered. I just wonder if we could ban the phrase in the FAQ in the future, under threat of a lifetime ban.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 14, 2014)

teuchter said:


> He's got the hump because I told him off for some oafish sexism on another thread.



I don't have the hump with you, you're not worth the energy that'd require. I merely think you're a self-important, self-righteous dick who spends too much time criticising others, and not enough time on reflexivity.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 14, 2014)

Definitely got the hump.


----------



## Rushy (Jun 14, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Definitely got the hump.


Or needs one.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Jun 15, 2014)

Looked shut this evening...


----------



## deadringer (Jun 15, 2014)

editor said:


> So that's where having a blatant disregard for the rules gets you.  Nice.



Never been to a lock in? Or bought a couple of pints at last orders knowing you won't finish them in 15 minutes?


----------



## colacubes (Jun 15, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> Looked shut this evening...



Was shut last night when I went past about 9pm.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 16, 2014)

Fuckin aida, what a nasty nimby thread!

I reckon £100 a year is superb value if it ensures against having to share drinking space with some of the jaundiced tossers posting here (and I don't mean the OP).


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 16, 2014)

oh dear


----------



## T & P (Jun 16, 2014)

Ah, Spymaster's back from his long ban, and not bitter in the slightest


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 16, 2014)

T & P said:


> Ah, Spymaster's back from his long ban, and not bitter in the slightest



Ach, no complaints there. But this thread. Jesus Christ almighty.


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Jun 16, 2014)

I think £100 a year is superb value too. in fact the fact its not more makes me afraid to join 
(I would of done immediately otherwise) as I might end up drinking £4 bottles of beer and eating cheese alongside peasants from Brixton, which would be horrible.

when they up it to £1000, im joining!


----------



## ddraig (Jun 16, 2014)

are you a mason used to closed 'exclusive' clubs too?


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Jun 16, 2014)

I just don't wish to drink with riff raff you sometimes stumble across the coldharbour lane area. I like this concept and hope the general area of Brixton gentrifies some more so these are more common.

in my dream world, such unsalubrious venues such at the Prince Albert and the '414' would be raided by police, shut down and turned into expensive gastro pubs, 'pop up' wine bars, and private exclusive members only clubs which require you to wear a hat and pay a membership fee.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 16, 2014)

Way too obvious.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 16, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Way too obvious.


 

2/10 would not be trolled by again


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 16, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> Fuckin aida, what a nasty nimby thread!
> 
> I reckon £100 a year is superb value if it ensures against having to share drinking space with some of the jaundiced tossers posting here (and I don't mean the OP).



That's because you're Cunty Simon, the cuntiest cunt this side of the Cuntern Hills.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 16, 2014)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> I think £100 a year is superb value too. in fact the fact its not more makes me afraid to join
> (I would of done immediately otherwise) as I might end up drinking £4 bottles of beer and eating cheese alongside peasants from Brixton, which would be horrible.



For us peasants, anyway.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 16, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> That's because you're Cunty Simon, the cuntiest cunt this side of the Cuntern Hills...



.... in Cuntshire?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 16, 2014)

Cunting Cuntshire


----------



## Badgers (Jun 16, 2014)

So are they closed for now?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 16, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> .... in Cuntshire?



Cuntshire, whose cunty town (see what I did there?) is Clunge.


----------



## el-ahrairah (Jun 16, 2014)

in fact, it is possible to deliver mail to spymaster just by addressing the envelope "the cunt".

but you'll need to put a stamp on it.  they're not _that_ good.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 16, 2014)

imagine sending out a letter addressed to 'The Cunt' and then it coming back marked _return to sender_


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 16, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> imagine sending out a letter addressed to 'The Cunt' and then it coming back marked _return to sender_


It would just go in a big sack with the rest of Tony Blair's mail.


----------



## cuppa tee (Jun 16, 2014)

Badgers said:


> So are they closed for now?





I'm no expert but I don't think a counter notice is a positive


----------



## deadringer (Jun 16, 2014)

£10p/m is NOT expensive or exclusive. Most shit clubs charge a tenner to get in. £20 is not uncommon for late night/early morning London clubs.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 16, 2014)

Can't you see the difference in paying that once or twice in a year and having to pay much more than that upfront??


----------



## Badgers (Jun 16, 2014)

If they are closed at the moment will the £100 members get a pro-rata refund?


----------



## Dan U (Jun 16, 2014)

So are they massive gak heads or what? Or just useless.

It's some going to trash your own dream of opening a bar by fucking off the licensing in a matter of days.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 16, 2014)

ddraig said:


> Can't you see the difference in paying that once or twice in a year and having to pay much more than that upfront??


You mean paying £10 upfront for a month's membership vs £10 for one-off entry to a crap club? Extortionate!


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 16, 2014)

Dan U said:


> So are they massive gak heads or what? Or just useless.
> 
> It's some going to trash your own dream of opening a bar by fucking off the licensing in a matter of days.


I think they perhaps thought licensing was a formality rather than a legal obligation with strings attached. That said, I suspect some of the complaints against them may have been vexatious, so it's maybe not all their fault.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 16, 2014)

Badgers said:


> If they are closed at the moment will the £100 members get a pro-rata refund?


What's the betting the closed time will be part of the two free months?


----------



## alan_ (Jun 16, 2014)

Anybody with a problem over £2 a week is going to be totes fucked over a £4 drink


----------



## MrSki (Jun 16, 2014)

alan_ said:


> Anybody with a problem over £2 a week is going to be totes fucked over a £4 drink


Totes? Is it a bookies too?


----------



## ddraig (Jun 16, 2014)

teuchter said:


> You mean paying £10 upfront for a month's membership vs £10 for one-off entry to a crap club? Extortionate!


different
do you go to craps clubs on 10 weekends every year?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 16, 2014)

Dan U said:


> So are they massive gak heads or what? Or just useless.



Those things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive...


----------



## deadringer (Jun 16, 2014)

ddraig said:


> different
> do you go to craps clubs on 10 weekends every year?



If I liked the place (OTC) and thought I'd go a few times a month and be able to take a mate whenever I wanted £10 is fuck all in the grand scheme of things. A cab up the road is £5 these days


----------



## Fingers (Jun 16, 2014)

OK there is some wrong information above.  Apparently lambeth licencing turned them down and the are now taking the application to magistrates court


----------



## Smick (Jun 16, 2014)

alan_ said:


> Anybody with a problem over £2 a week is going to be totes fucked over a £4 drink


 £2 a week if you give your custom every single week without fail. How many other bars would you pledge to do that a year in advance?

Go there 20 weekends per year, which is quite a lot, then it is a fiver a week. Again, just to buy their drink.

In my opinion they need to entice as many as possible in. Not create barriers.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 16, 2014)

Fingers said:


> OK there is some wrong information above.  Apparently lambeth licencing turned them down and the are now taking the application to magistrates court


Interesting - do you have a link for that information?  I suppose if there were that many complaints Lambeth didn't really have a choice - or are they just being arsey?


----------



## Fingers (Jun 16, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Interesting - do you have a link for that information?  I suppose if there were that many complaints Lambeth didn't really have a choice - or are they just being arsey?



Direct from the owner. Lambeth are being arsey by all accounts.


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2014)

Smick said:


> In my opinion they need to entice as many as possible in. Not create barriers.


Ah yes, but for that £100 they're offering 'private members evenings after 7pm' with a 'vibe as funky and cool as their clientele' in a 'funky, chilled environment' where you can 'engage in some quality banter' - and use that exclusive 'private members entrance' to a 'secure' railway arch to get to the limited selection of pricey bottled beer quicker.


----------



## Smick (Jun 16, 2014)

Fingers said:


> Direct from the owner. Lambeth are being arsey by all accounts.


 what else are they saying?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 16, 2014)

Fingers said:


> Direct from the owner. Lambeth are being arsey by all accounts.


Cheers Fingers


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 16, 2014)

editor said:


> Ah yes, but for that £100 they're offering a 'Private members evenings after 7pm' with a 'vibe as funky and cool as their clientele' in a 'funky, chilled environment' where you can 'engage in some quality banter' - and use that exclusive 'private members entrance' to a 'secure' railway arch to get to the limited selection of pricey bottled beer quicker.


Don't forget it's shut, so £100 doesn't buy any of that at present


----------



## Smick (Jun 16, 2014)

editor said:


> Ah yes, but for that £100 they're offering a 'Private members evenings after 7pm' with a 'vibe as funky and cool as their clientele' in a 'funky, chilled environment' where you can 'engage in some quality banter.' And use that exclusive entrance to a railway arch too to get to that limited selection of pricey bottled beer quicker.


 Honestly, I don't understand the private entrance. What does it offer that the real entrance wouldn't?
Is it on Milkwood Road?


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2014)

Smick said:


> Honestly, I don't understand the private entrance. What does it offer that the real entrance wouldn't?
> Is it on Milkwood Road?


It's all about the _exclusivity_. Apparently.


----------



## Smick (Jun 16, 2014)

But why should someone worry about walking through any door they have?

I reckon that these guys need to build up the crowd first and then impose the financial burden.


----------



## editor (Jun 16, 2014)

Smick said:


> But why should someone worry about walking through any door they have?
> 
> I reckon that these guys need to build up the crowd first and then impose the financial burden.


Look, If I'm spending £100/year just to get into a railway arch for a couple of nights every weekend, the very least I expect is my own exclusive entrance!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 17, 2014)

Is the private members door through a bespoke and reclaimed wardrobe?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 17, 2014)

deadringer said:


> £10p/m is NOT expensive or exclusive. Most shit clubs charge a tenner to get in. £20 is not uncommon for late night/early morning London clubs.



The difference being an entry fee is something you pay to use a facility, a membership fee is something you have to pay whether you use the facility or not, on the *off-chance* that you might want to use the facility.

So basically, your analogy sucks the cocks of dead dogs.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 17, 2014)

ddraig said:


> Can't you see the difference in paying that once or twice in a year and having to pay much more than that upfront??



Obviously not!


----------



## tufty79 (Jun 17, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> The difference being an entry fee is something you pay to use a facility, a membership fee is something you have to pay whether you use the facility or not, on the *off-chance* that you might want to use the facility.
> 
> So basically, your analogy sucks the cocks of dead dogs.


ken dodd's dad's dead dogs?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 17, 2014)

alan_ said:


> Anybody with a problem over £2 a week is going to be totes fucked over a £4 drink



You're rather missing the point.
Deliberately, I'm sure!
And that's a £4 bottle of beer, with other drinks coming in ever-so-slightly more expensive.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 17, 2014)

tufty79 said:


> ken dodd's dad's dead dogs?



Yep. His analogy sucks Ken Dodd's Dad's dead dogs' cocks.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 17, 2014)

Smick said:


> £2 a week if you give your custom every single week without fail. How many other bars would you pledge to do that a year in advance?



Even when I was a devout drunkard, I varied where I went for a drink, if only for a change of scenery and people.



> Go there 20 weekends per year, which is quite a lot, then it is a fiver a week. Again, just to buy their drink.
> 
> In my opinion they need to entice as many as possible in. Not create barriers.



They're kind of stuck.  They brought an "exclusivity" USP to the club, partially as a result of licencing - fair play to them that they ran with the licencing situation and all that, too - and it may be biting them in the arse, but there's not a lot they can do about it at the mo.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 17, 2014)

The best thing now is for people to continue banging on and on and on and on, say for about another 40 pages, about the £100 yearly option, and ignore the fact that the entry charge for up any single night is a maximum of £10 with no committment to further payments and the option to bring two guests in with you.

Thus we will ensure that this thread continues to give the owners valuable feedback, advice and insight.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 17, 2014)

is it? where did they post that? a mere £10 to get in on fri/sat?


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 17, 2014)

teuchter said:


> The best thing now is for people to continue banging on and on and on and on, say for about another 40 pages, about the £100 yearly option, and ignore the fact that the entry charge for up any single night is a maximum of £10 with no committment to further payments and the option to bring two guests in with you.
> 
> Thus we will ensure that this thread continues to give the owners valuable feedback, advice and insight.


Is the £10/month option still available? I thought they'd done away with it?


----------



## teuchter (Jun 17, 2014)

ddraig said:


> is it? where did they post that? a mere £10 to get in on fri/sat?





OTCbarSE24 said:


> There is nothing pretentious or 'income based' about our membership - which doesn't begin until June as it is.  It is £10/month or £100/year - we're not  Shoreditch House, we're not trying to be - we are trying to operate a business under the licensing rules that a club premises requires.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 17, 2014)

so can you turn up on a fri/sat and just pay £10?  as that is what your post read like


----------



## teuchter (Jun 17, 2014)

ddraig said:


> so can you turn up on a fri/sat and just pay £10?  as that is what your post read like


That is my understanding yes. Have you actually read the thread?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 17, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Thus we will ensure that this thread continues to give the owners valuable feedback, advice and insight.




if I ran somewhere and this was a thread about my gaff then I would have bailed on page 20 and pretended the thread didn't exist

only I wouldn't have a 100 pound a year entrance fee, I'd just make all members recite the entire, long version, lyrics to 'Frsh Prince of Bel Air' before they were allowed in. That way it excludes the drunk and people who didn't find that program amusing.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 17, 2014)

teuchter said:


> That is my understanding yes. Have you actually read the thread?


My understanding is that the £10 option was dropped and subsequently removed from their website?
http://www.otcbar.co.uk/membership.html


----------



## ddraig (Jun 17, 2014)

teuchter said:


> That is my understanding yes. Have you actually read the thread?


yes but i must have missed where it said there was an option to avoid the £100 up front and using the PAYG option
and the post you quoted doesn't say that does it


----------



## Crispy (Jun 17, 2014)

It's in their rules document:

http://otcbar.co.uk/benefitsandrules.pdf


----------



## ddraig (Jun 17, 2014)

thanks for a proper and clear answer crispy


----------



## teuchter (Jun 17, 2014)

From their T&C



> Monthly  membership  (no  contract)  -‐  £10  per  month


----------



## teuchter (Jun 17, 2014)

Let's see who's first to start going on about the £100 again.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 17, 2014)

£100 is a lot of money if you don't go every week.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 17, 2014)

I thought I read somewhere in the thread that the £10 option had been removed. Maybe I was dreaming.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 17, 2014)

I think it's outrageous that they are charging £10,000 for a hundred years' membership. Who can afford that?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 17, 2014)

£10 is still a lot of money to charge for sitting in 2nd hand furniture in a railway arch, mind you.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 17, 2014)

To be honest, I wouldn't care if it was £10, £100 or free. I still wouldn't be seen dead in it. It sounds like a nice safe refuge for little rich kids. A stuck-up twats' commune to avoid the local peasants... But I could be wrong.


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 17, 2014)

Crispy said:


> £10 is still a lot of money to charge for sitting in 2nd hand furniture in a railway arch, mind you.


Thats true.

I'm not sure if £4 for a bottle of beer is expensive, though. I don't drink them, but it sounds about right.
A pint is usually just under the £5 mark.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> Thats true.
> 
> I'm not sure if £4 for a bottle of beer is expensive, though. I don't drink them, but it sounds about right.
> A pint is usually just under the £5 mark.


Not sure where you drink, but I never pay_ anywhere near_ £5/pint in Brixton.
Our Brixton Buzz beer sells for £3/bottle at Kaff.


----------



## Maggot (Jun 17, 2014)

It's unclear whether you have to pay for temporary membership on your first visit.



> Temporary	membership	–	your	first	night	at	OTC	without	full	status	membership,	you	will	be	issued	a	temporary	membership	card	which   entitles	you	to	enjoy	the	evening	with	us	for	that	Friday	or	Saturday	night;	should	you	decide	it’s	something	you	want	to	continue	with,   please	choose	one	of	the	above  pricing	plans	that	works	for	you	and	sign	up	in	order	to	join	us	for	Friday	&	Saturday	nights	in	the	future



It might be free.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2014)

teuchter said:


> From their T&C


Ah, so it's £120/year if you want a year's membership but prefer not to go into a contract arrangement with them.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 17, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> I'm not sure if £4 for a bottle of beer is expensive, though.



About average for London, ime.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 17, 2014)

editor said:


> Not sure where you drink, but I never pay_ anywhere near_ £5/pint in Brixton.
> Our Brixton Buzz beer sells for £3/bottle at Kaff.


At £3 for 330ml, that's £5.11/pint


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 17, 2014)

editor said:


> Not sure where you drink, but I never pay_ anywhere near_ £5/pint in Brixton.
> Our Brixton Buzz beer sells for £3/bottle at Kaff.


Usually somewhere near the border between Islington and Hackney. 
I guess I could buy a pint of cooking lager like Fosters, Carling, Carlsberg for a lot cheaper. But I have no interest in that.

I was out in town with some people the other day and between £4.75 and £5 was the standard.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2014)

Crispy said:


> At £3 for 330ml, that's £5.11/pint


I thought he was talking about a pint of beer as in, well, buying a pint, not measuring out the contents of bottles and then comparing them.


----------



## pesh (Jun 17, 2014)




----------



## cuppa tee (Jun 17, 2014)

Crispy said:


> At £3 for 330ml, that's £5.11/pint


.......but........


OTCbarSE24 said:


> ........... and we don't do pints f


----------



## T & P (Jun 17, 2014)

editor said:


> Ah, so it's £120/year if you want a year's membership but prefer not to go into a contract arrangement with them.


Well, that's way one way to look at it. Another would be ''at least they offer the possibility of shorter, contract-free memberships as well as the year-long membership". And one would have to be stupid to visit the premises the entire year under the PAYG scheme tbh.

Let's be at least be fair where fairness is due. Criticising their PAYG scheme as even being more of a rip-off is a bit like suggesting the Oyster card's PAYG scheme is an outrageous rip off as it would cost people who commute every day even more money than a monthly travelcard would cost them.


----------



## alan_ (Jun 17, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> You're rather missing the point.
> Deliberately, I'm sure!
> And that's a £4 bottle of beer, with other drinks coming in ever-so-slightly more expensive.


What point am I missing?
Why deliberately? 
and why do you know better what I mean than I do?


----------



## Supine (Jun 17, 2014)

Crispy said:


> £10 is still a lot of money to charge for sitting in 2nd hand furniture in a railway arch, mind you.



I've paid more than that for sitting in worse places!


----------



## T & P (Jun 17, 2014)

Indeed, I've paid more than that for standing in many a dimly-lit railway arch in my younger years


----------



## deadringer (Jun 17, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> To be honest, I wouldn't care if it was £10, £100 or free. I still wouldn't be seen dead in it. It sounds like a nice safe refuge for little rich kids. A stuck-up twats' commune to avoid the local peasants... But I could be wrong.



Neither would I, although it sounds to me to be a nice safe refuge to avoid the pissed up noisy twats who roam from bar to bar at the weekends. £10p/m, to be able to have a place like that and 2 guests seems fair enough, if that were what I was after.


----------



## deadringer (Jun 17, 2014)

And I'm not quite sure where this 'members only entrance' is people are bleating on about. In memebers only times there are no non members coming in anyhow, so there wouldn't even be an entrance for memebers and non members. We're talking a small bar, not a multi entrance mega venue.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 17, 2014)

deadringer said:


> And I'm not quite sure where this 'members only entrance' is people are bleating on about. In memebers only times there are no non members coming in anyhow, so there wouldn't even be an entrance for memebers and non members. We're talking a small bar, not a multi entrance mega venue.


----------



## deadringer (Jun 17, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


>




Where's the Urban 75 peasants entrance?


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 17, 2014)

deadringer said:


> Where's the Urban 75 peasants entrance?


Thats like asking for a glass of wet water


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2014)

T & P said:


> Let's be at least be fair where fairness is due. Criticising their PAYG scheme as even being more of a rip-off is a bit like suggesting the Oyster card's PAYG scheme is an outrageous rip off as it would cost people who commute every day even more money than a monthly travelcard would cost them.


Not quite getting your comparison there. With an Oyster card you pay for the actual journeys you make, and if you don't make any, you don't pay anything. With OTC you have to pay £100 a year (or £10/month) just to have the 'exclusive' right to enter the railway arch for two days a week, regardless of whether you actually end up going or not.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2014)

deadringer said:


> And I'm not quite sure where this 'members only entrance' is people are bleating on about.


It's right there on their website: 





> Security at all times, *including entrance via the private members entrance to the premises*


----------



## teuchter (Jun 17, 2014)

editor said:


> Not quite getting your comparison there. With an Oyster card you pay for the actual journeys you make, and if you don't make any, you don't pay anything. With OTC you have to pay £100 a year (or £10/month) just to have the 'exclusive' right to enter the railway arch for two days a week, regardless of whether you actually end up going or not.


I can confirm that you have failed to understand the comparison.


----------



## editor (Jun 17, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I can confirm that you have failed to understand the comparison.


I can confirm that I have little interest in any of your petty, sneering remarks, either now or in the future. Please don't respond to any more of my posts.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 17, 2014)

editor said:


> It's right there on their website:





> o Any misbehavior, violence, racism, sexism,  *prosecution* due to faith or any other behavior deemed unacceptable for OTC will result in immediate revocation of membership and 1 year ban from premises


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 17, 2014)

Spymaster said:


>


I think they need a proofreader. Should probably have drafted one in for this thread too.


----------



## se5 (Jun 18, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> I think they need a proofreader.



Yes I gave up reading after the first few lines - the American spelling grates rather too. It cant be too hard to change the Word dictionary to English UK: come on OTC its behaviour not behavior, licence not license etc etc.

Their claim "OTC Bar is the only venue in South London housed in a 150 year old arch." seems to be blatantly wrong - off the top of my head  I can think of numerous bars etc in the railway arches near Clapham High Street, Vauxhall, Brixton and Loughborough Junction stations and I'm sure there are many others


----------



## Badgers (Jun 18, 2014)

se5 said:


> Their claim "OTC Bar is the only venue in South London housed in a 150 year old arch." seems to be blatantly wrong - off the top of my head  I can think of numerous bars etc in the railway arches near Clapham High Street, Vauxhall, Brixton and Loughborough Junction stations and I'm sure there are many others



False advertising?


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 18, 2014)

se5 said:


> Yes I gave up reading after the first few lines - the American spelling grates rather too. It cant be too hard to change the Word dictionary to English UK: come on OTC its behaviour not behavior, licence not license etc etc.
> 
> Their claim "OTC Bar is the only venue in South London housed in a 150 year old arch." seems to be blatantly wrong - off the top of my head  I can think of numerous bars etc in the railway arches near Clapham High Street, Vauxhall, Brixton and Loughborough Junction stations and I'm sure there are many others


Maybe it's the precise age of the arch that is unique.  Perhaps Bar Story (Peckham) lives in an arch that's 151 years old...?


----------



## se5 (Jun 18, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> Maybe it's the precise age of the arch that is unique.  Perhaps Bar Story (Peckham) lives in an arch that's 151 years old...?



Good point - maybe Bar Story could claim exclusivity by branding themselves as the "only 151 year old arch venue", although I imagine it would get a bit tedious updating the signs every year


----------



## Smick (Jun 18, 2014)

se5 said:


> Yes I gave up reading after the first few lines - the American spelling grates rather too. It cant be too hard to change the Word dictionary to English UK: come on OTC its behaviour not behavior, licence not license etc etc.
> 
> Their claim "OTC Bar is the only venue in South London housed in a 150 year old arch." seems to be blatantly wrong - off the top of my head  I can think of numerous bars etc in the railway arches near Clapham High Street, Vauxhall, Brixton and Loughborough Junction stations and I'm sure there are many others


 
Elephant and Castle has a load of them, mainly Colombian I think.

They don't go shouting about it as a unique selling point though.

Maybe, like me, they don't see the benefit which putting a bar in such a location brings.

Maybe the railway building worked its way in to town so the arches in Herne Hill were built before those in Loughborough Junction and Elephant, making them older. Still not much to entice me.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 18, 2014)

I sense I have wasted my money buying a new hat.


----------



## MAD-T-REX (Jun 18, 2014)

Smick said:


> Maybe the railway building worked its way in to town so the arches in Herne Hill were built before those in Loughborough Junction and Elephant, making them older. Still not much to entice me.


Geek alert:

The first stretch of viaduct in the area was from Herne Hill to Victoria via Brixton (opened in 1862). The line from West Dulwich reached Herne Hill from the south in July 1863, so OTC's location probably dates from shortly before then. The line to E&C was opened in October 1863, which at least makes OTC's arch older than any in Loughborough Junction or E&C, but they would still be over 150 years old (just).

Perhaps they should say "OTC Bar is the only venue in South London housed in an arch that was possibly built in 1862 but possibly a bit later. Scientific analysis of brickwork required."


----------



## teuchter (Jun 18, 2014)

Damarr said:


> Geek alert:
> 
> The first stretch of viaduct in the area was from Herne Hill to Victoria via Brixton (opened in 1862). The line from West Dulwich reached Herne Hill from the south in July 1863, so OTC's location probably dates from shortly before then. The line to E&C was opened in October 1863, which at least makes OTC's arch older than any in Loughborough Junction or E&C, but they would still be over 150 years old (just).
> 
> Perhaps they should say "OTC Bar is the only venue in South London housed in an arch that was possibly built in 1862 but possibly a bit later. Scientific analysis of brickwork required."



There is the bar in the arch in Brixton though - the one that used to be Brixton Bar and Grill. That would have been built at the same time. And there is that one near Clapham North.


----------



## discobastard (Jun 18, 2014)

Opening again this weekend.


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2014)

discobastard said:


> Opening again this weekend.


*adjusts hat.


----------



## discobastard (Jun 18, 2014)

editor said:


> *adjusts hat.


*calibrates Vibe


----------



## editor (Jun 18, 2014)

discobastard said:


> *calibrates Vibe


*heads for exclusive entrance


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 18, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Not really. We are always wearing hats and the like - just be cool!


Still chortling at this.

'We are always wearing hats and the like' could be the name of a lost Mumford & Sons album


----------



## joustmaster (Jun 18, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Still chortling at this.
> 
> 'We are always wearing hats and the like' could be the name of a lost Mumford & Sons album


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jun 18, 2014)

discobastard said:


> *calibrates Vibe



Superb


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 18, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Still chortling at this.
> 
> 'We are always wearing hats and the like' could be the name of a lost Mumford & Sons album



It's the funniest post of the year to date....


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jun 18, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> It's the funniest post of the year to date....



If I was going to open a bar I would call it The calibrated vibe.


----------



## uk benzo (Jun 18, 2014)

This thread is 45 pages long? Bloody hell. The same stuff being regurgitated verbatim from the first few pages is getting a bit tedious. 

Surely there must be another small independent business we can all collectively turn our negative attention to?


----------



## leanderman (Jun 19, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> This thread is 45 pages long? Bloody hell. The same stuff being regurgitated verbatim from the first few pages is getting a bit tedious.
> 
> Surely there must be another small independent business we can all collectively turn our negative attention to?



Exactly. And it's still not in Brixton. 

We could start picking on places in Clapham next, in a bid to encourage correct thinking


----------



## T & P (Jun 19, 2014)

They have vodka bars in Clapham. Vodka bars.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 19, 2014)

It was me that posted about the £10/month option being removed from their website. If it's still in their terms and conditions I think they need to make it a bit clearer that that option is still available (if it is), or remove it if it isn't. It's not on their membership form.


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2014)

uk benzo said:


> This thread is 45 pages long? Bloody hell. The same stuff being regurgitated verbatim from the first few pages is getting a bit tedious.


It wouldn't have been half as long if the owners hadn't come on and told us about the hats.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 19, 2014)

T & P said:


> They have vodka bars in Clapham. Vodka bars.


*dribble*
What's wrong with that?   Vodka is both hardcore and also, the health food of alcohols.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 19, 2014)

editor said:


> It wouldn't have been half as long if the owners hadn't come on and told us about the hats.



Or to start the thread in the first place. Or to do a bit of ridiculous sockpuppetry.

Popping up every so often to moan about how the people you disagree with are dragging a thread out is always a winning move though.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 19, 2014)

editor said:


> It wouldn't have been half as long if the owners hadn't come on and told us about the hats.



The hats did for them. I'm sorry for my part in that.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 19, 2014)

This is how exciting it could have been....


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 19, 2014)

Look at these wacky funsters: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/photos/hat-party.html


----------



## T & P (Jun 19, 2014)

Best hat ever


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Look at these wacky funsters: http://www.urban75.org/brixton/photos/hat-party.html


Those hat parties at the Canterbury were ace.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 19, 2014)

editor said:


> Those hat parties at the Canterbury were ace.


they can't even come up with an original idea of their own!


----------



## Rushy (Jun 19, 2014)

T & P said:


> Best hat ever


Sorry, I was distracted. Which hat?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 19, 2014)




----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 19, 2014)

ddraig said:


> is it? where did they post that? a mere £10 to get in on fri/sat?




ccraig, why are you on this thread anyway? You don't live in Brixton you trumpet. Mind you, neither do I.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2014)

to answer your query, i used to go out there quite a bit and knew people who worked in bars
and interested in new places and how they operate

please leave me alone, ta


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 19, 2014)

ddraig said:


> to answer your query, i used to go out there quite a bit and knew people who worked in bars
> and interested in new places and how they operate
> 
> please leave me alone, ta



 

I can't see that being a problem.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> View attachment 56165
> 
> I can't see that being a problem.


.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 19, 2014)

ddraig said:


> .



Not for you with your dyspeptic "cultivate a personality so profoundly unpleasant that any possibility of making friends with _anyone_ - never mind a racist, is entirely precluded". Other than that,  Have a good un, ccraigo.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> Not for you with your dyspeptic "cultivate a personality so profoundly unpleasant that any possibility of making friends with _anyone_ - never mind a racist, is entirely precluded". Other than that,  Have a good un, ccraigo.


.


----------



## editor (Jun 19, 2014)

Not sure where all this bunfightery is coming from, but I'd be obliged if the warring parties took it to PM.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 19, 2014)

no warring here, just weird abuse from frances again
i've also not engaged here as all can see


----------



## T & P (Jun 20, 2014)

Remember the innocent, fluffy times around the launch of Champagne & Fromage? I yearn for such gentler era...


----------



## alfajobrob (Jun 20, 2014)

T & P said:


> Remember the innocent, fluffy times around the launch of Champagne & Fromage? I yearn for such gentler era...



Oh yes. it was ever so...we never used to argue about gentrification in the old days....


----------



## George & Bill (Jun 20, 2014)

As someone who hasn't been involved in this thread and so remains untainted, I'd just like to add my independent and authoritative voice to those saying:

This place looks totally shit.

The owner commented in the opening posts that people would be 'remiss' to dismiss it without having been. 

Actually, people were objecting to the membership fee, which a trial visit could not make any less unaffordable.

But I would also say this: London has so many new places constantly opening, that unless one wants to be a full-time reviewer, one has to employ a bit of instinct; I can't definitively say what this place is like without visiting, but there still doesn't seem to be a sufficient chance of it not being shit for me to want to spend my time finding out.


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 20, 2014)

Is that them with amplified singing tonight? 

I'm at home but need to pop out so might have a nosey.


----------



## editor (Jun 20, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Is that them with amplified singing tonight?
> 
> I'm at home but need to pop out so might have a nosey.


Please report back. Don't forget your hat!


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 20, 2014)

So, despite 2 doormen, it's just a 90s winebar. 

More tomorrow.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 20, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> More tomorrow.



Council permitting.


----------



## MrSki (Jun 21, 2014)




----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 21, 2014)

Bulmers and magners - almost indistinguishable from each other. And shit.
They can get to fuck.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2014)

Gosh. That menu lacks imagination. Why bother opening at all if you're going to put so little effort in?


----------



## se5 (Jun 21, 2014)

Yes nothing special and what I wonder are "Well beers"? By the looks of things just the multinational brands.

Was there airconditioning in operation? I imagine a windowless railway arch to not be the best place to be on a hot summers night if no aircon?

More importantly were people wearing hats? And what was the vibe like?


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jun 21, 2014)

Twenty-eight-fucking-quid for a bottle of Pinot Grigio?


----------



## Crispy (Jun 21, 2014)

railway arches are like caves. they don't really get hot


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2014)

LOL


----------



## Black Halo (Jun 21, 2014)

se5 said:


> Yes nothing special and what I wonder are "Well beers"?


It's an American term and actually rarely, if ever, refers to beers. "Well Drinks" in the states usually refers to a mixed drink/cocktail made from non-brand spirits i.e. cheap and nasty. So other than Curious Brew (which I have never drank/heard of) that actually applies to all their beers...


----------



## prunus (Jun 21, 2014)

What is it that the Chilean cabernet sauvignon has a touch of??  I must know!!!


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 21, 2014)

A fiver for Magners/Bulmers, the alcopops of cider 

(They've got a cheek to call it cider tbh - OTC AND the manufacturers.)


----------



## colacubes (Jun 21, 2014)

Crispy said:


> railway arches are like caves. they don't really get hot



True.  A mate of mine used to live in one and had a massive party in the height of summer and it was lovely and cool


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jun 21, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> Twenty-eight-fucking-quid for a bottle of Pinot Grigio?


It's even expensive if one went halves! In Herne Hill! I'm upset.


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jun 21, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> A fiver for Magners/Bulmers, the alcopops of cider
> 
> (They've got a cheek to call it cider tbh - OTC AND the manufacturers.)


It's like they're clueless and taking the piss  

I said this before (page 11?) - if I had my own entire bar to play with I'd make an _effort_. There's so much that could be genuinely 'locally sourced' (Hackney or Brixton booze! Sussex wines! cheeses from the Midlands! Fruits from the West Country!) - then maybe it'd be 1. Worth going to and B. Worthy. 

They're just grabby and thick.


----------



## Black Halo (Jun 21, 2014)

prunus said:


> What is it that the Chilean cabernet sauvignon has a touch of??  I must know!!!


"chocolate on the nose" apparently http://www.valvonacrolla.co.uk/cabernet-sauvignon-2011-adobe-emiliana (£8.99 a bottle)


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2014)

I've no objection to bars being massively pretentious if they have a decent range of drinks. But this appears to be the drinks list from a down-at-heel provincial bar. Are the menus laminated?


----------



## 5t3IIa (Jun 21, 2014)

It's half-arsed in an utterly run-of-the-mill way. Made _extraordinary_ by the fees.


----------



## Greebo (Jun 21, 2014)

They can fuck right off with the wines at those prices - nothing more than 4 years old.  

Presumably the spirits are mediocre quality because otherwise they'd state which brand.  I'm unimpressed by places which only have one quality of rum, vodka etc anyway, it tends to show a lack of respect for even the basics.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 21, 2014)

In their defence, they're only doing beer and cider as a sop to non wine fans.   Their raison d'être is wine and cheese. Perhaps those are great wines deserving of the price tag...

But the cheese itself is fucking criminal.  How can you have no British cheeses at all? British cheese leads the world in variety and quality.  Artisan cheesemaking is at a peak.  You can't move for farmers' markets punting really high-end stuff.  Certainly good enough for the cheeseboards of really swanky restaurants. 

Like I say, I dunno about the wine, but everything else about the menu lacks class.  It's all a bit "Sainsburys", iykwim, whereas I thought they were aiming for "waitrose".  Or even more aspirationally, "I do all my shopping in this lovely little deli I know".


----------



## colacubes (Jun 21, 2014)

Aren't wine bottles normally 75cl?


----------



## prunus (Jun 21, 2014)

Black Halo said:


> "chocolate on the nose"



Is that a euphemism...?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2014)

I know its london and everyone in london practically farms their own monocles and top hats but 35 quid for a saffa 2011 is ripping the piss.


----------



## Rushy (Jun 21, 2014)

Black Halo said:


> It's an American term and actually rarely, if ever, refers to beers. "Well Drinks" in the states usually refers to a mixed drink/cocktail made from non-brand spirits i.e. cheap and nasty. So other than Curious Brew (which I have never drank/heard of) that actually applies to all their beers...


Curious Brew is actually very very nice. Made by Chapeldown, a UK sparkling wine maker.
Pretty uninspiring otherwise.


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 21, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Aren't wine bottles normally 75cl?


the empty one in front of me would appear to suggest that, yes.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2014)

sad to see no Stella Cidre in the fucking Chalice. You'd have thought that'd be right on their street


----------



## ddraig (Jun 21, 2014)

killer b said:


> I've no objection to bars being massively pretentious if they have a decent range of drinks. But this appears to be the drinks list from a down-at-heel provincial bar. Are the menus laminated?


This!
Looks like from a caff that has a booze licence


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 21, 2014)

What the beer and cider is, I expect, is cash and carry stock.  

But having both magners and bulmers is a mystery.  It's like having coke and Pepsi.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jun 21, 2014)

I don't think I've bothered to comment on this thread before but I can't stay quiet about Magners and Bulmers.. that's just utterly shite...


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 21, 2014)

There is absolutely no excuse for not having a decent cider. You can get many different Weston's and Aspall's ciders  at the cash and carry


----------



## ddraig (Jun 21, 2014)

then they'd be £7 or something!


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2014)

lol, westons, the Frosty Jack of the middle classes


----------



## Badgers (Jun 21, 2014)

The cider is an odd choice for a freehouse to stock


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 21, 2014)

I'd say it's absolutely evident by their stocking both brands, that no one behind OTC actually drinks cider.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 21, 2014)

And probably squeeze up to an extra £1 profit per bottle
Ignorance, greed and wrongly pitched


----------



## MAD-T-REX (Jun 21, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> A fiver for Magners/Bulmers, the alcopops of cider


The English Bulmers isn't terrible without ice, and it's leagues ahead of that sugary Swedish shite.

I realise this isn't exactly an endorsement of Bulmers. Not sure why I'm posting.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2014)

5t3IIa said:


> Twenty-eight-fucking-quid for a bottle of Pinot Grigio?



And if you know wine at all, you've got to be worried about the quality of a Pinot Noir that costs £11 *less* a bottle than the Pinot Grigio!

The winelist looks like they've just copied the flavour notes off of each bottle.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2014)

colacubes said:


> Aren't wine bottles normally 75cl?



70 or 75. 75 is more often "new world" than "old world" IME.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> I don't think I've bothered to comment on this thread before but I can't stay quiet about Magners and Bulmers.. that's just utterly shite...



I complained to an online booze retailer about including Magners, Bulmers _et al_ in their cider list  . I got a very nice reply back saying that most of the staff agreed with me, but that they seemed to be the brands people bought when stocking up for a party (as opposed to stocking up your own supply, like).


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2014)

ddraig said:


> then they'd be £7 or something!



The mark-up is a bit rich, given that they'll be paying a maximum of a quid per bottle on the cider, and wholesale, Aspalls would cost them about 50p more per bottle (and that's just checking bulk prices from online sellers).
I suppose they're just hoping to attract a clientele that *won't* think "they're taking the piss with the mark-up on this"!.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> lol, westons, the Frosty Jack of the middle classes



Does that make Frosty Jack the pondwater of the working classes, or summat?


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 21, 2014)

Damarr said:


> The English Bulmers isn't terrible without ice, and it's leagues ahead of that sugary Swedish shite.
> 
> I realise this isn't exactly an endorsement of Bulmers. Not sure why I'm posting.



Is there any honest way to endorse Bulmers, except as the fizzy-pop version of cider?
Agree with you about Rekorderlig, though, and some of the other flavoured ciders on the market aren't much better.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 21, 2014)

killer b said:


> I've no objection to bars being massively pretentious if they have a decent range of drinks. But this appears to be the drinks list from a down-at-heel provincial bar. Are the menus laminated?



If you're paying membership fees I do expect a wider, sharper and more experimental range of wines than this. When Aldi are outdoing you you're in trouble (I bloody love Aldi wine but you get my point). 

A friend of a friend opened a non membership cheese and wine place, looked fantastic, pre crash in St John's Hill, and it had a better selection of cheese and wine in a veritable wonderland of disposable income. It failed pretty fast. They are going to have to do much much better.


----------



## leanderman (Jun 21, 2014)

Plumdaff said:


> If you're paying membership fees I do expect a wider, sharper and more experimental range of wines than this. When Aldi are outdoing you you're in trouble (I bloody love Aldi wine but you get my point).
> 
> A friend of a friend opened a non membership cheese and wine place, looked fantastic, pre crash in St John's Hill, and it had a much much better selection of cheese and wine in a veritable wonderland of disposable income. It failed pretty fast. They are going to have to do much much better.



Exactly. The selection is really uninspiring. They may like wine but know very little about putting a list together. Or even about wine itself.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 21, 2014)

The soft drinks aren't much better either - unspecified 'coke, lemonade, orange juice, tonic water'??? Come on. There are tons of lovely independent soft drinks makers these days, and I know that soft drinks aren't the main focus, but a few interesting ones aren't hard to source.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 21, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> lol, westons, the Frosty Jack of the middle classes


That's my line you git  though I think I said it was middle class K.


----------



## Smick (Jun 21, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> The soft drinks aren't much better either - unspecified 'coke, lemonade, orange juice, tonic water'??? Come on. There are tons of lovely independent soft drinks makers these days, and I know that soft drinks aren't the main focus, but a few interesting ones aren't hard to source.


 
Yeah, you need things like Fentimans ginger beer, some Elderflower pressé, maybe a few different mineral waters, pretending that it makes a difference.

I'd expect good mark up on that kind of thing as people are prepared to pay quite a bit for it.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 21, 2014)

Hasn't one owner lived for ages in the States? Proper Lemonade, limeade, iced teas, cold filtered coffees. That stuff is ten a penny there but still uncommon here and not hard to do. The weather's perfect.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 21, 2014)

Once they read through the thread and take our advice on board this place is going to be massive :thumbs :


----------



## ddraig (Jun 21, 2014)

init! so much help and pointers 
all free too!


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 21, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> The soft drinks aren't much better either - unspecified 'coke, lemonade, orange juice, tonic water'???



Do most of the places you drink at specify the brand names of the mixers then?


----------



## tufty79 (Jun 21, 2014)

no diet soft drinks either


----------



## Badgers (Jun 21, 2014)

Wonder how many members have paid up so far?


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> Do most of the places you drink at specify the brand names of the mixers then?


Yes, they do.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 21, 2014)

So you'd ask for a vodka and schweppes lemonade?


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> So you'd ask for a vodka and schweppes lemonade?


I might do, but we are in fact talking about the advertising material.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 21, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> So you'd ask for a vodka and schweppes lemonade?



Most people don't ask, but some will. And it's fairly standard to specify which ones you use. Here's a link, for example, to that well known hallmark of beverage sophistication, my local Harvester, where the brand names of the soft drinks are very clear 
http://www.harvester.co.uk/harvesterstjohnscardiff/ourmenus/


----------



## nagapie (Jun 21, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> I'd say it's absolutely evident by their stocking both brands, that no one behind OTC actually drinks cider.


Or eats cheese.


----------



## Black Halo (Jun 21, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Curious Brew is actually very very nice. Made by Chapeldown, a UK sparkling wine maker.


I will keep an eye out for it, I'll try anything once.


----------



## Greebo (Jun 21, 2014)

Black Halo said:


> I will keep an eye out for it, I'll try anything once.


I've had a look at the curious brew site.  I might well order some to drink at home later in the year, but pay OTT prices at  OTC ?  I don't think so.


----------



## Dan U (Jun 21, 2014)

They sell it in my local independent wine shop. It's about 2.20 a bottle iirc Greebo 

I've not had the porter as I'm not a fan of them generally  but the Ipa and the lager are nice


----------



## tommers (Jun 21, 2014)

This thread is so gloriously mental.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 21, 2014)

tommers said:


> This thread is so gloriously mental.


even if they were giving away free coke I suspect it wouldn't be the real Colombian stuff and would be massively cut so we'd all be moaning


----------



## editor (Jun 21, 2014)

Here's that formidable beer/cider selection.


----------



## George & Bill (Jun 21, 2014)

MrSki said:


>





ViolentPanda said:


> The winelist looks like they've just copied the flavour notes off of each bottle.



Their most expensive bottle can be bought for £9.22 here:

http://www.exelwines.co.uk/details/...Ax6jrZoSM-xzbauud2MKCo0_uTszBBzeGdpkSjcvD_BwE

Making their markup, to £34, the better part of 300%. And the notes on their menu are indeed borrowed from the winemaker (they're the same as those used in the website above).

They are charging rip-off prices for wine that they can't even be bothered to give customers their own original thoughts on. Their wider menu would have been nothing special ten or twenty years ago, but now, it's jaw-dropping pathetic. I have seen few places that deserve so richly to fail.


----------



## Smick (Jun 21, 2014)

275ml or 287ml or whatever on the well beers. Half pint for £4. Nip out to Sainsbury's and get 15 for £8. First two bottles pay for the remaining 13.

While lager drinkers might not be their target market, they'll make some good cash if they get a few in.


----------



## George & Bill (Jun 21, 2014)

I mean, I know it's not important at all, but I'm astonished that somewhere can call itself a 'wine and cheese bar', then have this as their cheese list:

Spanish goat cheese
De la Hus - Spain
American Provolone 
Picas Blue - Italy
Manchego - Spain
Cheddar - Germany

I am genuinely perplexed. At least the wine list, however limited and boring, actually states what specific wines are being offered. Writing 'Spanish goat cheese' on the cheese list of a place that specialises in cheese is like having 'Spanish red wine' on a wine list.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2014)

killer b said:


> I've no objection to bars being massively pretentious if they have a decent range of drinks. But this appears to be the drinks list from a down-at-heel provincial bar. Are the menus laminated?




I take umbrage here. On behalf of all slightly shabby small towns just outside of the Great Attractor.


I was arguing the case for building a wall around london the other day, as you do, and ma sais- 'the foundations would cost!'

M25. Theres yer foundations.


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2014)

mate, i live in Preston. I'm allowed to mock the provinces.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2014)

killer b said:


> mate, *i live in Preston.* I'm allowed to mock the provinces.




may god go with you


----------



## killer b (Jun 21, 2014)

that actually _is_ fighting talk.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 21, 2014)

tufty79 said:


> no diet soft drinks either


Oooh good point tufty. It's not hard to get some decent variants of those these days either.

It's almost like they don't want people to go.


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 21, 2014)

tommers said:


> This thread is so gloriously mental.


Care to explain what exactly you mean by this?


----------



## Rushy (Jun 21, 2014)

I bet their bog roll is own brand, too. Has anyone checked?


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 21, 2014)

slowjoe said:


> I mean, I know it's not important at all, but I'm astonished that somewhere can call itself a 'wine and cheese bar', then have this as their cheese list:
> 
> Spanish goat cheese
> De la Hus - Spain
> ...


I'm not a massive cheese fan myself but even I can see that the above cheese list is nothing special. There are so many artisan cheesemakers within the UK these days, not to mention some of the ones in Europe, that this list is pretty poor.

How on earth can they justify an American cheese or Cheddar from Germany? Sounds like a job lot from the nearest cash and carry rather than the results of trips round farmers' markets, delis and cheesemakers.


----------



## oryx (Jun 21, 2014)

Smick said:


> 275ml or 287ml or whatever on the well beers. *Half pint for £4*. Nip out to Sainsbury's and get 15 for £8. First two bottles pay for the remaining 13.



Just been to London Beer Dispensary in Brockley tonight and good quality real ale is £3.40 a pint.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2014)

killer b said:


> that actually _is_ fighting talk.



pistols at dawn- and shave, else I will beard you in your own den


----------



## Manter (Jun 21, 2014)

the bar is clearly a bit shit, but I am starting to feel sorry for them….


----------



## George & Bill (Jun 21, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> How on earth can they justify an American cheese or Cheddar from Germany? Sounds like a job lot from the nearest cash and carry rather than the results of trips round farmers' markets, delis and cheesemakers.



Thing is, those could be some great, artisanally-produced cheeses for all we know - and having American cheese would be great, since there are craft cheese producers there, though the country isn't known for them - but the menu gives us no reason to be confident any of this is the case, since it just mentions broad categories of cheese and their countries of origin, with no mention of the producer or any other distinguishing characteristics.


----------



## George & Bill (Jun 21, 2014)

You wouldn't need to tour the world, or even London's farmers' markets to do better than this - you can get a better selection just from a single decent cheese counter.


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 21, 2014)

Manter said:


> the bar is clearly a bit shit, but I am starting to feel sorry for them….


I know what you mean. Urban will just have to make this thing work [emoji6]


----------



## Ms T (Jun 21, 2014)

As I've said before, Picos Blue isn't even from Italy, it's Spanish.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jun 21, 2014)

What a distasteful thread this has turned out to be. It's obvious the owners have missed the mark. But you all need to go on and on and on gleefully putting the boot in. Well done all, you've come out of this with much credit.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 21, 2014)

they shut my favourite  pub the other day and I blame cheese wankers


----------



## George & Bill (Jun 21, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> What a distasteful thread this has turned out to be. It's obvious the owners have missed the mark. But you all need to go on and on and on gleefully putting the boot in. Well done all, you've come out of this with much credit.



Not really. If someone is merely incompetent, then it's distasteful to do more than quietly note the fact. But people who are first unpleasant - and people who want to divide others up by income fall into that category - then also turn out to be incompetent, probably deserve to have their faces ground into their own ineptitude a fair bit.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 22, 2014)

I like it when we're a bit cunty. We're Urban 75, not the fucking Get Along Gang.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 22, 2014)

Belushi said:


> I like it when we're a bit _cunty. _



You called?


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 22, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> What a distasteful thread this has turned out to be. It's obvious the owners have missed the mark. But you all need to go on and on and on gleefully putting the boot in. Well done all, you've come out of this with much credit.



"They may not be fire compliant and they don't name their mixer suppliers!" 

Fucking nuts.


----------



## Belushi (Jun 22, 2014)

And we've dissed their cheese selection, don't forget that. It's given Retro the vapours.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> Fucking nuts.




2 quid a bowl


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2014)

I'm inclined to agree with killer b here, it is londinium. You expect to be done over regardless. But that menu isn't even giving you the dubious satisfaction of supping quality vino in the area that has priced out all locals.

I'm not a wine expert, I don't even drink it to taste. Rarely with a meal. But I have done testing courses and worked four years for a specialist wine shop. 35 quid for a saffa just about younger than my last shit? Really?


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2014)

Thats not to suggest the new world wines are somehow inferior, I've bought then served them to loads of people. Usually to acclaim at my excellent taste (couple of fuck ups mind). But in general you can get a new world wine heavily discounted from BargainLiverFailure and its just as good as a european wine of double the price.

so wtf man


----------



## 8den (Jun 22, 2014)

xsnipx

just repeating what others said.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 22, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> 2 quid a bowl



Bargain.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jun 22, 2014)

FridgeMagnet said:


> That's my line you git  though I think I said it was middle class K.


Like Leffe being middle class Special Brew


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 22, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> Like Leffe being middle class Special Brew




this these days







it's on;y 7% abv so people drink it like water. But it creeps up. I have seen several polish men of my street swigging this. It looks pure evil.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 22, 2014)

nagapie said:


> Or eats cheese.



Or leave their house to socialise.


----------



## Athos (Jun 22, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> this these days
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
There's some Polish supermarkets in Luton,where you can buy a dizzying array of dirt-cheap, super-strength lager. I think nobody has benefitted more from the influx from eastern Europe than street drinkers, in terms of breath of offering and price; gone are the days of only Special Brew or Tennants Super.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 22, 2014)

Athos said:


> There's some Polish supermarkets in Luton,where you can buy a dizzying array of dirt-cheap, super-strength lager. I think nobody has benefitted more from the influx from eastern Europe than street drinkers, in terms of breath of offering and price; gone are the days of only Special Brew or Tennants Super.


Yeah I've noticed this - I rushed into a Polish shop to get a can of beer last season whilst running to get the train back from football…just grabbed the nearest thing in the fridge…it turned out to be some 8% gack which was like drinking liquid malt, minging it was!


----------



## Athos (Jun 22, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yeah I've noticed this - I rushed into a Polish shop to get a can of beer last season whilst running to get the train back from football…just grabbed the nearest thing in the fridge…it turned out to be some 8% gack which was like drinking liquid malt, minging it was!


 
The one on the left as you're going up the slope from the back of the Arndale to the station is a particularly good/bad example. I bought a can of something in there which, on first taste, had me genuinely wondering whether it was beer, or whether the Poles sell cleaning products in cans. But, strangely, if you persist they become quite an acquired taste, especially in the two-can sweet spot between facial numbness and loss of bodily functions. In any event, better than OTC's offering!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 22, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> minging it was!



but you drank it?


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 22, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> but you drank it?


two swigs then it got dumped


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 22, 2014)

THAT BAD!


----------



## Greebo (Jun 22, 2014)

editor said:


> Here's that formidable beer/cider selection.<snip>


Sod that - I've got better than that at home, including a wider range of soft drinks.


----------



## Greebo (Jun 22, 2014)

slowjoe said:


> You wouldn't need to tour the world, or even London's farmers' markets to do better than this - you can get a better selection just from a single decent cheese counter.


You could even go to that cheese shop on Victoria station!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 22, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> Do most of the places you drink at specify the brand names of the mixers then?



They should, to be fair.  I'll drink Fever Tree tonic water till the cows come home, but Schweppes has too much artificial sweetener in it. Even Lidl's own brand tonic has less!
Also, Britvic juices are shite!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 22, 2014)

nagapie said:


> Or eats cheese.



It's a short step from admitting to being a cheese-eater, to admitting to being a surrender monkey.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 22, 2014)

tommers said:


> This thread is so gloriously mental.



I'm so glad it gives you something to condescend to!


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 22, 2014)

killer b said:
			
		

> mate, i live in Preston. I'm allowed to mock the provinces.



I tend to give Preston a free pass, on the not-very-rational basis that I watched the legendary Nobby Stiles play for Preston North End against Fulham, way back in the early '70s.  It was like watching a middle-aged, balding tornado run riot through a field of corn.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 22, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> What a distasteful thread this has turned out to be. It's obvious the owners have missed the mark. But you all need to go on and on and on gleefully putting the boot in. Well done all, you've come out of this with much credit.



Were you born this sententious, or have you developed the skill as you grew towards middle age?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 22, 2014)

off the cuff cheese platter


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 22, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> They should, to be fair.  I'll drink Fever Tree tonic water till the cows come home, but Schweppes has too much artificial sweetener in it. Even Lidl's own brand tonic has less!
> Also, Britvic juices are shite!


Britvic juices are shite - it's the sediment of unknown origin in the bottom that does it for me.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 23, 2014)

tommers said:


> This thread is so gloriously mental.


I like how it's gone from "we are outraged that they are excluding the povvos" to "it's almost as dreadful as being in the provinces: the wine list does not have original tasting notes, the cider is too mainstream and they have insufficient artisanal cheeses"


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 23, 2014)

Well if you're basing your "appeal" on exclusivity and snobbery, being shittier than what I can russle up here in benighted South Wales (with its lacklustre scenery) in five minutes from Aldi just adds to the ridiculousness. But you're deliberately missing the point, eh?


----------



## teuchter (Jun 23, 2014)

The best way to fight the tidal wave of exclusivity and snobbery overwhelming Brixton is to fight back with our own crowdsourced gastro-snobbery one-upmanship. We must not tolerate any half-baked or provincial-level exclusivity here


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2014)




----------



## teuchter (Jun 23, 2014)

Mr Editor - to clarify the current version of the rules: I am not allowed to respond to your posts but you are allowed to respond to mine - is this correct?


----------



## T & P (Jun 23, 2014)

To be fair, this thread has become such a slag-off fest that if the owners of the place were shown walking on water, some here would say it's only because they can't fucking swim.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 23, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I like how it's gone from "we are outraged that they are excluding the povvos" to "it's almost as dreadful as being in the provinces: the wine list does not have original tasting notes, the cider is too mainstream and they have insufficient artisanal cheeses"


either way you'd be moaning and picking holes
worth noting that there has been - next to no gloating over their licence fuck up all of their own doing and again, lots of free pointers from potential customers.

do you think that menu style and content lives up to the initial billing?


----------



## teuchter (Jun 23, 2014)

ddraig said:


> do you think that menu style and content lives up to the initial billing?



I don't know as I am not really a wine and artisanal cheese person. I'm happy to leave the assessment to those more familiar with that lifestyle, especially as they are not in short supply in this forum.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I like the sandwiches/rolls you can get in the International Cheese Centre inside Victoria station.





teuchter said:


> Cheese. It's difficult to buy regular cheese except at the supermarkets. I don't think you can buy a bit of decent cheddar cheese in the market.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 23, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I don't know as I am not really a wine and artisanal cheese person. I'm happy to leave the assessment to those more familiar with that lifestyle, especially as they are not in short supply in this forum.


no comment on the cider and other drink options then?
can they do any wrong in your eyes or simply need defending to the death just because?


----------



## pesh (Jun 23, 2014)

i think it's too far gone for help at this stage, they need to start again from scratch.

i'd swap the coffee machine for about 6 bass bins and some strobes, swap the cheese and wine bar for a chest freezer full of redstripe and wrongbow and use the arch as god intended. always used to work for us.


----------



## Crispy (Jun 23, 2014)

pesh said:


> i'd swap the coffee machine for about 6 bass bins and some strobes, swap the cheese and wine bar for a chest freezer full of redstripe and wrongbow and use the arch as god intended. always used to work for us.


There'd just be complaints about the quality of the ketamine.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 23, 2014)

I missed the 1500th post


----------



## teuchter (Jun 23, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> ..


I am flattered you took the time out of your day to do a search for potential cheese hypocrisy in my past; however I don't consider "regular cheddar" to come under the "artisanal cheese" banner - do you disagree? Perhaps we need another thread?

I believe the cheese used in the International Cheese Centre rolls which I recommend is Applewood Cheddar which is available in supermarkets, and I am pretty sure that a cheese artisan would in no circumstances allow his or her creations to be sold pre-sliced.

I can assure you that I consume neither cheese in conjunction with wine.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2014)

so, you do care about artisan cheese- no need to be flattered, I'm on the dole. It gave me something to do between hoovering and washing up


----------



## teuchter (Jun 23, 2014)

ddraig said:


> no comment on the cider and other drink options then?
> can they do any wrong in your eyes or simply need defending to the death just because?


I don't drink cider and their beer selection is uninteresting, as I would expect from a "cheese and wine" bar.

It is untrue that they can do no wrong in my eyes, and no, I would not defend them to the death. You have in your haste wrongy interpreted my criticism of the urban75 commentariat as a defence of the venue.


----------



## George & Bill (Jun 23, 2014)

I think perhaps the connection between the two lines of criticism - exclusivity on one hand, and lackluster (to put it kindly) quality on the other - is that the latter makes the former all the more naked. If the place had a great menu of things not collected under any other roof nearby, then you might hope or argue that this could become people's motivation for joining. But even the immediate area is awash with better culinary offerings than this, so the only motivation one can see is the implied offer of of social segregation.

Incidentally I agree that it's wrong to focus too much on the cost as the means of social segregation. This would imply that OTC is some kind of exception in a situation where nightlife is otherwise not rationed by income - and that's not the case. Even standard pubs and curry houses can feel like they're excluding you when you're scratching around for the change to buy some Tesco beans. What makes OTC specifically objectionable is that the selection seems to be an end in itself, not just a byproduct of a business trying to make a profit.


----------



## Manter (Jun 23, 2014)

Blimey, this thread keeps appearing in the new posts list, and keeps getting increasingly batshit. It has become a bit of a guilty pleasure...


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## Rushy (Jun 23, 2014)

I love this  idea that the owners are getting lots of good advice from potential customers. For half the people offering their helpful tips on how to run a Brixton (Herne Hill) venue, this forum is about the closest they've been to Brixton in the past 12 months. I'm sure I will tire of it eventually but for the time being I am finding this strangely entertaining.


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## Plumdaff (Jun 23, 2014)

To be fair, I lived locally for twelve years and will probably be in Brixton next Saturday night, but nonetheless that's not the point. This is precisely the kind of thing the Internet was invented for, as it's easy enough to have an opinion, gossip and so on, but no one, really, has genuine emotions invested in this, except maybe the owner, and she's long gone. If you're wasting time online, it's ideal.


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## Spymaster (Jun 23, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I love this  idea that the owners are getting lots of good advice from potential customers.



All free too.


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## Rushy (Jun 23, 2014)

Plumdaff said:


> To be fair, I lived locally for twelve years and will probably be in Brixton next Saturday night, but nonetheless that's not the point. This is precisely the kind of thing the Internet was invented for, as it's easy enough to have an opinion, gossip and so on, but no one, really, has genuine emotions invested in this, except maybe the owner, and she's long gone. If you're wasting time online, it's ideal.


Key words here being "potential customers".


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## editor (Jun 23, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Key words here being "potential customers".


I'm almost always a potential customer for a local venue that says it's putting on great live music, but OTC's marketing has done a good job of putting me off the place.


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## Plumdaff (Jun 23, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Key words here being "potential customers".


Isn't part of the deliciousness the fact virtually no one off here, local or not, was likely to go, for increasingly different reasons than at the start?


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## teuchter (Jun 23, 2014)

slowjoe said:


> What makes OTC specifically objectionable is that the selection seems to be an end in itself, not just a byproduct of a business trying to make a profit.



How objectionable it is depends on who they are trying to exclude, and why. And people are coming to their own conclusions about that which are based on what they think the owners_ really mean_ when they say this or that.

Notable, for example, that when the OTC people mention "security" some posters here seem to jump to the conclusion that this means protection from the local poor. Perhaps it's those posters whose prejudices need some examination, or maybe they just haven't thought about the various ways people other than them might feel insecure in a late night drinking context.


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 23, 2014)

Plumdaff said:


> Isn't part of the deliciousness the fact virtually no one off here, local or not, was likely to go, for increasingly different reasons than at the start?



A couple of people have actually gone as a result of the thread I think.


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## Rushy (Jun 23, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm almost always a potential customer for a local venue that says it's putting on great live music, but OTC's marketing has done a good job of putting me off the place.


I think you probably qualify as someone who has actually been in Brixton in the past 12 months.


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## editor (Jun 23, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I think you probably qualify as someone who has actually been in Brixton in the past 12 months.


I don't understand that comment, sorry.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2014)

teuchter said:


> How objectionable it is depends on who they are trying to exclude, and why. And people are coming to their own conclusions about that which are based on what they think the owners_ really mean_ when they say this or that.
> 
> Notable, for example, that when the OTC people mention "security" some posters here seem to jump to the conclusion that this means protection from the local poor. Perhaps it's those posters whose prejudices need some examination, or maybe they just haven't thought about the various ways people other than them might feel insecure in a late night drinking context.



basic security for the rowdier ends of the week is not something one needs to mention heavily, it is taken as given surely? So why else mention it unless you want to reassure the north of the river hogarth-loving crowds that their high end consumer b'lings will be safe even in beruite. I mean brixton. A town so notorious for crime that that prat had to practically give his laptop away to get a story. Mackintyre


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## sleaterkinney (Jun 23, 2014)

There were at least two stalls selling cheese right outside their door on Sunday at the market.


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## editor (Jun 23, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> basic security for the rowdier ends of the week is not something one needs to mention heavily, it is taken as given surely? So why else mention it unless you want to reassure the north of the river hogarth-loving crowds that their high end consumer b'lings will be safe even in beruite. I mean brixton. A town so notorious for crime that that prat had to practically give his laptop away to get a story. Mackintyre


I've certainly never felt the need to even _mention_ the "security" at the late night venues where I've run my clubs - even when Brixton was somewhat more 'livelier' a decade ago.


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## teuchter (Jun 23, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> basic security for the rowdier ends of the week is not something one needs to mention heavily, it is taken as given surely? So why else mention it unless you want to reassure the north of the river hogarth-loving crowds that their high end consumer b'lings will be safe even in beruite. I mean brixton. A town so notorious for crime that that prat had to practically give his laptop away to get a story. Mackintyre


This place is not in Brixton; it is in Herne Hill which is an adjacent largely well-to-do neighbourhood. No-one visits Herne Hill in search of edginess or to indulge their fantasies of journeying to riot-torn no-mans-lands. It's located on a street of gentrified pubs, fancy bakeries, picture-framing shops and delicatessens. And their target audience is not in North London but in the well-preserved Victorian townhouses of the surrounding streets.

Not sure what you mean by "basic security" but I don't think they are talking about bouncers on the door. They are talking about the different clientel and behaviour that running a venue as a members' bar generates. They are trying to create something that won't appeal in the first place to the crowd who might need to be kept in check by a surly guy on the door. Well, that's what they are trying to do as far as I can make out. Whether they will succeed I have no idea.

Comparisons to "lively" club nights in Brixton are pointless - that's not the market they're after. There's a type of punter who would be put off by mention of security, so the clubs they go to don't mention even though in reality it's there in quite a heavy way. There's another type of punter who might fancy the option of late night drinking without the messiness they perhaps relished in their younger years (or never have done), and who might be tempted to try a venue that promotes itself as a safe rather than edgy environment. For them the atmosphere and surroundings are more important than the price of the drinks because they aren't going to be drinking fifteen of them in the course of the evening.

For a city of its size, London's actually pretty hopeless if you just want a drink and somewhere to sit down and talk after pub hours. I'd consider paying a modest membership fee for somewhere that let me do that on a whim, if I liked it enough. I wouldn't for this one because it doesn't really look like my thing. But Ihave no reason to object to them trying to go for their niche. They are hardly changing the face of Herne Hill overnight.


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## editor (Jun 23, 2014)

The members-only Ivy Club doesn't mention security. Nor does the Garrick. Struggling to find any in fact who make such a big deal of it in their publicity.


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## sleaterkinney (Jun 23, 2014)

I think they had to get in security as a condition of the license, they then clumsily tried to turn this into a selling point.


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## editor (Jun 23, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> I think they had to get in security as a condition of the license, they then clumsily tried to turn this into a selling point.


What about the hats?


----------



## teuchter (Jun 23, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Mr Editor - to clarify the current version of the rules: I am not allowed to respond to your posts but you are allowed to respond to mine - is this correct?


Haven't had an answer to this yet.


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Haven't had an answer to this yet.


Oh shut up.  No one cares. And if you were sincere, you'd have dropped me a PM instead of the usual thread-diverting showboating.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2014)

> Comparisons to "lively" club nights in Brixton are pointless - that's not the market they're after. There's a type of punter who would be put off by mention of security, so the clubs they go to don't mention even though in reality it's there in quite a heavy way. There's another type of punter who might fancy the option of late night drinking without the messiness they perhaps relished in their younger years (or never have done), and who might be tempted to try a venue that promotes itself as a safe rather than edgy environment. For them the atmosphere and surroundings are more important than the price of the drinks because they aren't going to be drinking fifteen of them in the course of the evening.



that sounds like a nice local pub with a weekend late license. You don't normally get a private members entrance or a oner a year members fee with those though. I'm not going to mention smoking and the gradual decline of WMC's though because the thread would get even more mental.


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## editor (Jun 23, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> that sounds like a nice local pub with a weekend late license. You don't normally get a private members entrance or a oner a year members fee with those though. I'm not going to mention smoking and the gradual decline of WMC's though because the thread would get even more mental.


Oh go on!


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## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2014)

No. Last time we discussed the smoking issue I invented a broken laptop full of reports proving you wrong that I was going to post ASAP. I don't want to have to stoop that low again


----------



## editor (Jun 23, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> No. Last time we discussed the smoking issue I invented a broken laptop full of reports proving you wrong that I was going to post ASAP. I don't want to have to stoop that low again


Incidentally, I was in Berlin last week where smoking is allowed in pubs. I liked the beers (particularly the prices!) but I really, really didn't enjoy coming home stinking of someone else's steenkin' fags.


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## friendofdorothy (Jun 23, 2014)

sleaterkinney said:


> I think they had to get in security as a condition of the license, they then clumsily tried to turn this into a selling point.


The most inept case of PR I've ever seen. I feel quite sorry for them now, it's quite a shame, as we could do with late night drinks around here.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 23, 2014)

on that one I think if you were raised by heavy smokers, started smoking in teens and never stopped, you just don't really clock the smell or if you do it isn't minging to you. Most all people I know smoke like bastards. Even the slightly body fash m8 who loves gym is often seen with a chunky stogie.

Does Off the wrist have an outside area where the be-hatted well protected tourists can smoke their gaulois or sobranie fags? or Lucky \Strike. I always look hard at a man who smokes luckies. What is his agenda?


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## Manter (Jun 23, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> The most inept case of PR I've ever seen. I feel quite sorry for them now, it's quite a shame, as we could do with late night drinks around here.


the chocolate museum's PR was pretty shit too IIRC


----------



## deadringer (Jun 23, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> What a distasteful thread this has turned out to be. It's obvious the owners have missed the mark. But you all need to go on and on and on gleefully putting the boot in. Well done all, you've come out of this with much credit.



It's like a particularly nasty spiteful bunch of bullies all egging each other on. Not pleasant.


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## Crispy (Jun 23, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> Does Off the wrist have an outside area where the be-hatted well protected tourists can smoke their gaulois or sobranie fags?



Yes it does. Here's a view from the (kinda pedestrianised) road, from when it was a timber yard.

http://www.bing.com/maps/?v=2&cp=51...p~-4.8~cz~0.336~pid~5082&app=5082&FORM=LMLTCC

The yard is shared with a couple of other arches.


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## equationgirl (Jun 25, 2014)

deadringer said:


> It's like a particularly nasty spiteful bunch of bullies all egging each other on. Not pleasant.


Rubbish. Look at how much free advice they've gotten on here. No-one's taking pleasure in their difficulties from what I can see.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 25, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Rubbish. Look at how much free advice they've gotten on here. No-one's taking pleasure in their difficulties from what I can see.


Did you email them about your fire safety concerns and what did they say?


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## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

I am, I'm laughing like a hyena on nitrous.


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## editor (Jun 25, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I am, I'm laughing like a hyena on nitrous.


Can you record that sound and upload it please?


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## gabi (Jun 25, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Rubbish. Look at how much free advice they've gotten on here. No-one's taking pleasure in their difficulties from what I can see.



Er, have you read the thread?

It's the usual pathetic nonsense coming from the usual quarters.

This is someone's business, which they've invested time and money in, don't know why the vitriol really. At least they've got off their arse and are doing something, unlike half the keyboard warriors slinking around on here.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

he says on his keyboard


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## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

I love the idea that I have to live in brixton or be the sort of person who would join a private members club to bitch. I've been mocking these wanky places for years. I remember being introduced to the idea when I was agencied in for emergency cover at one place, I was glakit with shock at the concept then. P's are P's tho- the fact that someones set up a half arsed one in south london is pretty fucking hilarious


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## Rushy (Jun 25, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Rubbish. Look at how much free advice they've gotten on here. No-one's taking pleasure in their difficulties from what I can see.







_"This valuable lesson is going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you"_​


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## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Rubbish. Look at how much free advice they've gotten on here. No-one's taking pleasure in their difficulties from what I can see.



LOLOLOLOL! 

A joke, right?

Not sure if this post wins the prize for the 'least aware' or 'most disingenuous' of the thread.

Benevolent thread is benevolent!

Free advice my hairy arse. If you genuinely think that the tone, content, and context of what's been posted on here by the vast majority is intended to be in any way helpful to the bar, you seriously need to give up the internet.

I gave you a 'like' for that purely on its entertainment value.


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## Rushy (Jun 25, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I am, I'm laughing like a hyena on nitrous.


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## Orang Utan (Jun 25, 2014)

This thread has been ace. Laughing at these people is therapeutic. Fuck em!


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## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> This thread has been ace. Laughing at these people is therapeutic. Fuck em!



At least you and Dotski are honest enough to acknowledge that.


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## Rushy (Jun 25, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> This thread has been ace. Laughing at these people is therapeutic. Fuck em!



This thread is full of entertainment on so many levels .


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## Badgers (Jun 25, 2014)

So when are non-members allowed in? 
I am curious enough to go down for a look.


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## twistedAM (Jun 25, 2014)

Manter said:


> the chocolate museum's PR was pretty shit too IIRC



That's it innit. People opening small businesses should be very careful both of trying to do it themselves (especially on message boards!) or employing the wrong person, presumably on the cheap. 
Surely some of the business seminars Lambeth run, cover the pitfalls of online marketing?


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## Badgers (Jun 25, 2014)

Is the chocolate shop museum still going?


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## Greebo (Jun 25, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Is the chocolate shop museum still going?


Good question.  Followed by "Where the hell is/was it as it was nowhere I went past?".


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## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> That's it innit. People opening small businesses should be very careful both of trying to do it themselves (especially on message boards!) or employing the wrong person, presumably on the cheap.
> Surely some of the business seminars Lambeth run, cover the pitfalls of online marketing?



Indeed. This thread could be a case study for business courses on how naivety and piss-poor research can have spectacularly negative effects when marketing a start-up.


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## killer b (Jun 25, 2014)

I also have had a great deal of pleasure sneering at these fuckwits, and am proud to admit it.


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## Badgers (Jun 25, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Good question.  Followed by "Where the hell is/was it as it was nowhere I went past?".



187 Ferndale Road 
http://thechocolatemuseum.co.uk/#/visitcontact/4569882178

I went past it the other day for the first time since it opened. 
It was shut at the time


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## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

Rushy said:


> View attachment 56422




LOL thats what us mere mortals look like to the gods of OTC membership I suppose. A cross we have to bear.


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## Mr Retro (Jun 25, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> This thread could be a case study for business courses on how naivety and piss-poor research can have spectacularly negative effects when marketing a start-up.


I'm not sure. I don't think business start ups have to put up with relentless negativity and sneering (aka free advice) on this level in the real world. Somebody putting together a business course would observe this thread and dismiss it as an anomoly.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

you are an amonoly


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## Badgers (Jun 25, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> you are an amonoly



you are a cantaloupe


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## Dr_Herbz (Jun 25, 2014)

slowjoe said:


> I mean, I know it's not important at all, but I'm astonished that somewhere can call itself a 'wine and cheese bar', then have this as their cheese list:
> 
> Spanish goat cheese
> De la Hus - Spain
> ...



What did you expect them to do.. phone Aldi and ask them which goat the cheese came from?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 25, 2014)

Still nearly 40 pages short of Champagne & Fromage. More effort needed all round.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 25, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> What did you expect them to do.. phone Aldi and ask them which goat the cheese came from?


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 25, 2014)

What made this thread funny, to me was the second stage. 

So first they set up a stall of exclusivity: offering a wine bar with a cover charge (or membership as they prefer to describe it), and talking about they type of clientele that they hoped having a membership fee would secure.  That was the stall they set out, it was what they wanted us to know above all else.

But then, it turns out that the cornerstone of its offer - the refreshments, including the cheese and wine specialisms, are really a very long way from being posh or exclusive or refined at all. It's like opening a gastro pub and serving sainsbury's chicken kievs and frozen pizzas.

so, after the first stage, I didn't like their attitude - and then when the second stage kicked in it was really funny because what they claimed to be, they were really just failing miserably at. 


Oh and the pissing off the borough licensing people *before they have their actual licence granted*, is just genius levels of idiocy.

I do feel a little bit sorry for them , as it goes - not because of the reception they've had here (if you don't want to experience unlimited negativity, stay the fuck away from the internet).  But because it becomes increasingly clear that these people aren't Claphamite professionals with a calculated business plan; they're a bunch of total chancers with very little by way of business sense at all. 

If they just backed down on the membership/exclusivity thing, I'd probably be quite up for drinking in there in absence of the Half Moon, shit ciders/cheese/uninspiring wine or no.


----------



## leanderman (Jun 25, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> What made this thread funny, to me was the second stage.
> 
> So first they set up a stall of exclusivity: offering a wine bar with a cover charge (or membership as they prefer to describe it), and talking about they type of clientele that they hoped having a membership fee would secure.  That was the stall they set out, it was what they wanted us to know above all else.
> 
> ...



Yes, they guilty not of crimes but - much worse - of mistakes.


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## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

be interesting to see what the take home pay per annum the OTC defenders enjoy. Illuminating perhaps.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 25, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Yes, they guilty not of crimes but - much worse - of mistakes.


In fairness, they're guilty of being dicks. 
They decided to invest their money in something they obviously knew nothing about. It's hard to feel any sympathy for them.


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 25, 2014)

On their fb page otc claim this is an original Beatles album????????????????

For sale along with the cheese and the sideboard...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 25, 2014)

.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> I'm not sure. I don't think business start ups have to put up with relentless negativity and sneering (aka free advice) on this level in the real world.



I partly agree. The thread's exposed some quite disgusting, truly hateful stuff. But it didn't have to.

We invest in and/or obtain funding and provide mentoring for start-ups and SMEs. I get to review scores of business plans of varying degrees of quality and lunacy. Any relating to bars, restaurants, nightclubs, or niche-retail, are binned out of hand. The reason for this is that at Stage 1 these proposals are almost exclusively the pipe dreams of enthusiastic amateurs rather than sensible propositions from experienced businesspeople and because of this, and the vagaries therein, most don't get to see their second birthday. OTC fits this.

Fundamental mistakes have been made here. It's not my sector but I reckon you can start a membership-based club without banging on about "exclusivity". If you do that you're going to piss-off those that feel excluded. You can achieve the same aim without doing that. Some of their marketing spiel is horrific and almost seems designed to annoy. The OP (Jennie?) clearly hadn't researched U75 before attempting to promote the venue here and that's a cardinal sin, akin to trying to advertise dildos in the _Catholic Times _or butchery courses in_ Vegan's Weekly. _A week or so researching the place isn't too much trouble to take given that some people appear to be sinking their life savings into this gig.

Jennie tried to repair the damage by appealing to goodwill, "come down and have a look", but by then the horse had bolted. She may as well have scrawled her subsequent posts on a bog wall for all the good they did and her most sensible decision was to get the fuck out. Again, naivety driven by heartfelt enthusiasm rather than businesslike reason.

Getting a new venture established is hard work and challenging enough even for those experienced in doing it. There are all sorts of things ready to bite you on the arse without the proprietors springing traps on themselves as has happened here.

I don't like to see small enterprises fail. It's regular people's application, ambition, and often talent, going down the shitter. OTC have made a few mistakes but I genuinely hope they can put these down to (lack of?) experience; refocus, and move on.

Good luck to them.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> I partly agree. The thread's exposed some quite disgusting, truly hateful stuff. But it didn't have to.



pmsl, truly disgusting is the protocols of the elders of zion, sun columnists, racist invective

I think this is a bit far from truly disgusting. It's harsh but you can't give it that hyperbole man.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> pmsl, truly disgusting is the protocols of the elders of zion, sun columnists, racist invective
> 
> I think this is a bit far from truly disgusting. It's harsh but you can't give it that hyperbole man.



I had in mind a specific post which I can't find now but was made a couple of weeks back (by Nanker I think) calling the woman a cunt.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jun 25, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> be interesting to see what the take home pay per annum the OTC defenders enjoy. Illuminating perhaps.


What would it illuminate?

I think there is a confusion where people speaking out against the sneering here are taken to be supporters of the bar. I think everybody is agreed it's a flawed business plan. I don't think read a single post actually supporting OTC.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 25, 2014)

deadringer said:


> It's like a particularly nasty spiteful bunch of bullies all egging each other on. Not pleasant.



Judgemental much?  You're almost as bad as teuchter.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> What would it illuminate?
> 
> I think there is a confusion where people speaking out against the sneering here are taken to be supporters of the bar. I think everybody is agreed it's a flawed business plan. I don't think read a single post actually supporting OTC.




nope, team lines are drawn now, don't be clegg.

and you know what it would illuminate


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 25, 2014)

Rushy said:


> _"This valuable lesson is going to hurt me more than it's going to hurt you"_​



Thanks for posting that picture of your childhood.  Please don't do it again.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 25, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> I'm not sure. I don't think business start ups have to put up with relentless negativity and sneering (aka free advice) on this level in the real world. Somebody putting together a business course would observe this thread and dismiss it as an anomoly.



Oh man, you've never been involved in a new business, have you? 
Negativity is *good*, it allows you to see problems with your business that you may not have otherwise anticipated.
Any sensible business plan will warn you against being too positive, to expect the worst, to be prepared for failure.
And that's a *good* thing, insofar as it makes you plan accordingly.  Going into a business buffered by relentless positivity is a surefire way of making sure you land hard on your arse.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jun 25, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Oh man, you've never been involved in a new business, have you?
> Negativity is *good*, it allows you to see problems with your business that you may not have otherwise anticipated.
> Any sensible business plan will warn you against being too positive, to expect the worst, to be prepared for failure.
> And that's a *good* thing, insofar as it makes you plan accordingly.  Going into a business buffered by relentless positivity is a surefire way of making sure you land hard on your arse.


Actually I have and I run my own business. This is why I felt qualified to make the point I did


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 25, 2014)

Mr Retro said:


> Actually I have and I run my own business. This is why I felt qualified to make the point I did


Same here (did, not do, also saw a lot of people fail, because they ignored basic good business sense).
As Spymaster said earlier, there are a lot of enthusiastic amateurs out there.  Enthusiasm is a great thing, but it tends to be overly optimistic, and optimism doesn't keep you in pot noodles.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 25, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> And that's a *good* thing, insofar as it makes you plan accordingly.  Going into a business buffered by relentless positivity is a surefire way of making sure you land hard on your arse.



Hindsight is a great thing but imagine how much easier (and cheaper) it would have been for them if they'd started this thread and learned from it _*before*_ committing to their business model and investing in such a shit idea?

Exclusivity might sell... if you have something exclusive to offer.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Enthusiasm is a great thing, but it tends to be overly optimistic, and optimism doesn't keep you in pot noodles ....



...... or get you properly funded in the first place, which is why most of these type of ventures are seeded by the initiators savings or the "bank of mum and dad". Accordingly they're often too financially sensitive to downturns and fuck-ups and end up closing the doors when they can't find anyone to chuck more money at them.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 25, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> I had in mind a specific post which I can't find now but was made a couple of weeks back (by Nanker I think) calling the woman a cunt.



Not true.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Not true.



Then I apologise. Someone did though.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

using the search function to find a specific incidence of someone calling someone else a cunt on Urbanz is proper needle/haystack as well


----------



## alfajobrob (Jun 25, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> Then I apologise. Someone did though.




Errrrr - that might have been me.....

"I hate the terms "honest" and "hard working" as well btw...you shouldn't use them as it makes you sound like a bigger cunt than you are "


----------



## Badgers (Jun 25, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> "I hate the terms "honest" and "hard working" as well btw...you shouldn't use them as it makes you sound like a bigger cunt than you are "



Work hard, play hard


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 25, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> Errrrr - that might have been me.....
> 
> "I hate the terms "honest" and "hard working" as well btw...you shouldn't use them as it makes you sound like a bigger cunt than you are "



You cunt!


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> Errrrr - that might have been me.....
> 
> "I hate the terms "honest" and "hard working" as well btw...you shouldn't use them as it makes you sound like a bigger cunt than you are "



I don't think I've used either term here but I've made a note for future reference.


----------



## alfajobrob (Jun 25, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> I don't think I've used either here but I've made a note for future reference.



It wasn't my proudest moment, but I was rather pissed tbf.


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

Fair do's.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 25, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Oh man, you've never been involved in a new business, have you?





Mr Retro said:


> Actually I have and I run my own business. This is why I felt qualified to make the point I did



This here illustrates why the OTC people should be so very very grateful for all the free advice being offered by internet experts - the most expert of all experts.


----------



## Mr Retro (Jun 25, 2014)

teuchter said:


> This here illustrates why the OTC people should be so very very grateful for all the free advice being offered by internet experts - the most expert of all experts.


And never bullying or sneering thankfully


----------



## teuchter (Jun 25, 2014)

Or patronising.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 25, 2014)

have you contracted out the due dilligence and nit picking of this thread to spy or are you continuing to oversee it? hard to tell


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

ddraig said:


> have you contracted out the due dilligence and nit picking of this thread to spy ...



I doubt he could afford me so this is pro bono, ya monkey.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 25, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Is the chocolate shop museum still going?


Yeah it is. It's only open Weds - Sat. They seem to do a lot of stuff with school kids, teaching sessions etc. Their chocolate is good, if a bit expensive. I haven't actually been in since the few times I went in when it first opened.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 25, 2014)

this thread is classic urbanz btw. teutcher and spymaster's rearguard action has kept the thread alive - a proper urbanz thread should always have a scrap within a scrap towards the end 

(proper urbanz thread)


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

Well I was, err ... "on holiday" (  ) from when it started until about a week ago, then it took a while to read, or I might have got involved sooner.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 25, 2014)

As I was saying to some assorted urbs in the Effra Social last night - if OTC wanted some good PR they should have just offered some urbs a free drink on page 1 and this thread wouldn't have been more than a few pages long. But maybe not as funny.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jun 25, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> As I was saying to some assorted urbs in the Effra Social last night - if OTC wanted some good PR they should have just offered some urbs a free drink on page 1 and this thread wouldn't have been more than a few pages long. But maybe not as funny.



they'd have been bankrupted ...


----------



## T & P (Jun 25, 2014)

Not that I've made it to one yet, but perhaps the next Brixton drinks meet up should double up as a fact-finding mission at OTC. Followed by a bit of flaunting at Champagne & Fromage. I'd go to that


----------



## gaijingirl (Jun 25, 2014)

I wouldn't...


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

T & P said:


> Followed by a bit of flaunting at Champagne & Fromage.



If ever a place needed a name change, that's it. It would sound wanky even if it was based in Mayfair or Belgravia.


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 25, 2014)

T & P said:


> Not that I've made it to one yet, but perhaps the next Brixton drinks meet up should double up as a fact-finding mission at OTC. Followed by a bit of flaunting at Champagne & Fromage. I'd go to that



Just occurred; after all the bashing of Champagne & Fromage, should't people be sticking up for OTC as, according to some on this thread, they seem to be pitching at the Dairylea/Kraft slices end of the market?


----------



## gaijingirl (Jun 25, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> Just occurred; after all the bashing of Champagne & Fromage, should't people be sticking up for OTC as, according to some on this thread, they seem to be pitching at the Dairylea/Kraft slices end of the market?



hmmmm.. having recently been outed to my husband by my so-called "friends" as a kraft cheese slices fan - cue ridicule, as if my love of sandwich spread was not ammunition aplenty - I would support a member's only plastic cheese club.


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 25, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> If ever a place needed a name change, that's it. It would sound wanky even if it was based in Mayfair or Belgravia.



Cider and Frottage?


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 25, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> hmmmm.. having recently been outed to my husband by my so-called "friends" as a kraft cheese slices fan - cue ridicule, as if my love of sandwich spread was not ammunition aplenty - I would support a member's only plastic cheese club.


Sandwich Spread is ace. Vegetables, vinegar, salt and sugar all in one jar.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jun 25, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> Sandwich Spread is ace. Vegetables, vinegar, salt and sugar all in one jar.



I liked this.. but hang on.. is this sarcasm?    I get enough of this shit at home...


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

I've never liked sandwich spread. It looks like dog sick.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 25, 2014)

similar hatred of coleslaw


----------



## equationgirl (Jun 25, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I've never liked sandwich spread. It looks like dog sick.


Not as much as Toast Toppers did...


----------



## Spymaster (Jun 25, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Cider and Frottage?



Pretty much anything but Champagne and Fromage really. 

Most outfits become unpopular because of actions or inaction but with this lot you don't even get past the name before you're thinking "tossers".


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 25, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> I liked this.. but hang on.. is this sarcasm?    I get enough of this shit at home...



Sorry it does read that way but I do love it. Heinz is the best. Tried some own brand stuff but not the same.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 25, 2014)

Are they showing the football?


----------



## Dr_Herbz (Jun 25, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> Sorry it does read that way but I do love it. Heinz is the best. Tried some own brand stuff but not the same.


^^^ This... but it's too expensive and the jars should be at least 4X bigger.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jun 25, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> Sorry it does read that way but I do love it. Heinz is the best. Tried some own brand stuff but not the same.



nooooo.. can't get the own brand stuff.. it's shit.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 25, 2014)

I've got some cheese coleslaw in atm - it's kinda like sandwich spread but with grated cheese mixed in. It's a dirty, dirty habit. But it's only 75p for a massive tub from Iceland.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 25, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:
			
		

> I've got some cheese coleslaw in atm - it's kinda like sandwich spread but with grated cheese mixed in. It's a dirty, dirty habit. But it's only 75p for a massive tub from Iceland.



Too lazy to mix your own are you Mr Gentrification?


----------



## gaijingirl (Jun 25, 2014)

I do realise that as a sandwich spread afficionado I have little respect in these matters but imo cheese coleslaw is also very wrong.  Just put cheese on top!

We probably shouldn't be littering OTC's exclusive cheese and wine bar thread with this filthy talk..


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 25, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Too lazy to mix your own are you Mr Gentrification?


Yeah, I'm far too busy running my Cava and Coleslaw Bar.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jun 25, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yeah, I'm far too busy running my Cava and Coleslaw Bar.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 25, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> hmmmm.. having recently been outed to my husband by my so-called "friends" as a kraft cheese slices fan - cue ridicule, as if my love of sandwich spread was not ammunition aplenty - I would support a member's only plastic cheese club.


I hated cheese slices but Ms Hatter reckoned they go well in a fishfinger sandwich - she was right and I never looked back


----------



## Badgers (Jun 25, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:
			
		

> I hated cheese slices but Ms Hatter reckoned they go well in a fishfinger sandwich - she was right and I never looked back



Under the cheese thumb


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 25, 2014)

tbh I'm coming around to the OP's opinion. She was quite right to stop the sandwich spread oiks out of her establishment. It's for a more potted crab type of crowd.


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 25, 2014)

Plumdaff said:


> tbh I'm coming around to the OP's opinion. She was quite right to stop the sandwich spread oiks out of her establishment. It's for a more potted crab type of crowd.


Yeah me and gaijingirl would probably have embarrassed the owners in front of their posh customers by dipping rolled up cheese slices into our  supermarket cider.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jun 25, 2014)

it's like you have a camera into my house...


----------



## buscador (Jun 26, 2014)

Dr_Herbz said:


> Cider and Frottage?



Sadly all I'm capable of these days.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 26, 2014)

Spymaster said:


> ...... or get you properly funded in the first place, which is why most of these type of ventures are seeded by the initiators savings or the "bank of mum and dad". Accordingly they're often too financially sensitive to downturns and fuck-ups and end up closing the doors when they can't find anyone to chuck more money at them.



Nothing beats a good old-fashioned business plan where you set out your red lines and get some impartial research done *before *you start trading.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 26, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> You cunt!



Who you calling a cunt, you cunt? 

What a fucking cunt!


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 26, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Who you calling a cunt, you cunt?
> 
> What a fucking cunt!


 
Truly hateful stuff.

<Shakes head mournfully>


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 26, 2014)

ViolentPanda said:


> Who you calling a cunt, you cunt?
> 
> What a fucking cunt!



Not her from OCT. I'm not calling her a cunt. Some cunts I call a cunt, other cunts I just think are cunts, some cunts are just cunts and require no verification.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 26, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Not her from OCT. I'm not calling her a cunt. Some cunts I call a cunt, other cunts I just think are cunts, some cunts are just cunts and require no verification.


 
Like detective boy but with some self control.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jun 26, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Like detective boy but with some self control.



No


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 26, 2014)

teuchter said:


> This here illustrates why the OTC people should be so very very grateful for all the free advice being offered by internet experts - the most expert of all experts.



Seems to me it illustrates your facility at selectively quoting, you snide twat.


----------



## Manter (Jun 26, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> I do realise that as a sandwich spread afficionado I have little respect in these matters but imo cheese coleslaw is also very wrong.  Just put cheese on top!
> 
> We probably shouldn't be littering OTC's exclusive cheese and wine bar thread with this filthy talk..


You are wrong. Cheesy coleslaw is a thing of beauty. Putting cheese and coleslaw together just doesn't create the requisite cheesy, oniony goo...

<<dribbles>>


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 26, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Not her from OCT. I'm not calling her a cunt. Some cunts I call a cunt, other cunts I just think are cunts, some cunts are just cunts and require no verification.



True. Those sorts of fucking cunts are fucking cunts even when the wankers try to disguise their fucking cuntishness.


----------



## gabi (Jun 26, 2014)

I cant actually be arsed reading 55 pages of this. Has the place gone out of business or something?


----------



## Dan U (Jun 26, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Yeah, I'm far too busy running my Cava and Coleslaw Bar.



I think to attract the trendy crowd it should be 'Cava & Slaw'

for the record whenever I see it called 'slaw' on a menu or in a recipe i want to scream 'ITS FUCKING SLIGHTLY NICE COLESLAW'


----------



## Plumdaff (Jun 26, 2014)

When I lived in Edinburgh there used to be a sandwich shop in Morningside which did baguettes with homemade cheesy coleslaw with added carrot. They were amazing, I've been searching for a savoury roll as good since but it's never happened. I'm may need to take a trip.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 26, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Like detective boy but with some self control.



If you're like detective boy, then surely self-control is impossible?


----------



## gabi (Jun 26, 2014)

Dan U said:


> I think to attract the trendy crowd it should be 'Cava & Slaw'
> 
> for the record whenever I see it called 'slaw' on a menu or in a recipe i want to scream 'ITS FUCKING SLIGHTLY NICE COLESLAW'



The word slaw stems from the pronunciation in the Deep South of the US afaik. Not exactly the wealthiest part of the country.


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 26, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> I hated cheese slices but Ms Hatter reckoned they go well in a fishfinger sandwich - she was right and I never looked back



The ULTIMATE fish finger sandwich is using a couple of Chicago Town pizzas as the bread. Try it and see. 
And to keep things relevant to OTC, it would make a perfect bar snack. Hell, they could even go for the triple cheese Chicago Town option.


----------



## Dan U (Jun 26, 2014)

gabi said:


> The word slaw stems from the pronunciation in the Deep South of the US afaik. Not exactly the wealthiest part of the country.



but i live in the South East of England, not the Deep South of the US.


----------



## gabi (Jun 26, 2014)

Yes, well I assume you also eat 'burgers' from time to time. Not the most south eastern English word.

Jesus. What a fucking thread.


----------



## TopCat (Jun 26, 2014)

Classic Urban thread.


----------



## Dan U (Jun 26, 2014)

gabi said:


> Yes, well I assume you also eat 'burgers' from time to time. Not the most south eastern English word.
> 
> Jesus. What a fucking thread.



one it is impossible to be flippant on


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 26, 2014)

gabi said:


> Yes, well I assume you also eat 'burgers' from time to time. Not the most south eastern English word.
> 
> Jesus. What a fucking thread.



Away with you and your effete antipodean sensibilities, sir!


----------



## trabuquera (Jun 26, 2014)

gabi said:


> The word slaw stems from the pronunciation in the Deep South of the US afaik. Not exactly the wealthiest part of the country.



No; "slaw" is derived from Pennsylvania Dutch (i.e. backward Amish-style German) 'sla', meaning cabbage.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jun 26, 2014)

I fought the slaw and the slaw won


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jun 26, 2014)

DotCommunist said:


> I fought the slaw and the slaw won


groan...


----------



## snowy_again (Jun 26, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> No; "slaw" is derived from Pennsylvania Dutch (i.e. backward Amish-style German) 'sla', meaning cabbage.


----------



## alfajobrob (Jun 26, 2014)

I might be pissed again.....

I'd like to drop a bomb on Herne Hill as I know too many objectionable people that live there now....its a wanker magnet.

Hi Snowy


----------



## Rushy (Jun 26, 2014)

Lucky for you that Herne Hill does not have an airport...


----------



## Manter (Jun 26, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Lucky for you that Herne Hill does not have an airport...


Eh?


----------



## spanglechick (Jun 26, 2014)

Manter said:


> Eh?


infamous robin hood airport joke tweet.


----------



## Manter (Jun 26, 2014)

spanglechick said:


> infamous robin hood airport joke tweet.


Aha! Yes. Thx

In my defence it's been a rough week


----------



## Ms T (Jun 26, 2014)

alfajobrob said:


> I might be pissed again.....
> 
> I'd like to drop a bomb on Herne Hill as I know too many objectionable people that live there now....its a wanker magnet.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Jun 27, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Not as much as Toast Toppers did...



_But_ with toast toppers, granted they didn't look too keen on opening the tin, nor while spreading on your bread. But it was a different story post-grilling. They looked perfectly acceptable then. And they were nice.

TBF few tinned foodstuffs that require cooking look altogether healthy prior to cooking.


----------



## gabi (Jun 27, 2014)

trabuquera said:


> No; "slaw" is derived from Pennsylvania Dutch (i.e. backward Amish-style German) 'sla', meaning cabbage.



'Coleslaw' may have been. But the abbreviated version is almost certainly from down south, New Orleans way, Alabama, I don't know. But I heard it most down there, not up north.


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 27, 2014)

gabi said:


> 'Coleslaw' may have been. But the abbreviated version is almost certainly from down south, New Orleans way, Alabama, I don't know. But I heard it most down there, not up north.



I'd hazard a guess they started using the term slaw a bit more in the Deep South after 1865.


----------



## ddraig (Jun 27, 2014)

there was a prog on radio 4 about deep south food and sure they mentioned slaw


----------



## Badgers (Jun 27, 2014)




----------



## alfajobrob (Jun 27, 2014)

Ms T said:


>



Tbf I was drunk and thinking of 3 colleagues.....your ok for a posh bunch really


----------



## Brixton Hatter (Jun 27, 2014)

twistedAM said:


> The ULTIMATE fish finger sandwich is using a couple of Chicago Town pizzas as the bread. Try it and see.
> And to keep things relevant to OTC, it would make a perfect bar snack. Hell, they could even go for the triple cheese Chicago Town option.


Sounds proper wrong. 

And therefore right up my street! 

There must be a market for 'wrong' snacks, e.g. 
 - chicago town pizza fish finger sandwich with processed cheese slices
 - toasted cheese and peanut butter sandwich
 - rolled up cheese slice containing hot pepper sauce


----------



## twistedAM (Jun 27, 2014)

Brixton Hatter said:


> Sounds proper wrong.
> 
> And therefore right up my street!
> 
> ...




Oh I've done the cheese and PB toast many times. Sometimes with a few jalepenos in it. Needs a mature cheddar and preferably organic PB with no added salt/sugar.

I met the author of this book - http://www.triedandtoasted.com/ - once. He called me depraved.


----------



## Badgers (Jun 29, 2014)

Seems the membership is on hold and the soft launch is extended for a few months


----------



## Smick (Jun 29, 2014)

Yeah, they've had to make a few changes to their initial ideas. In the first post here, she says "we won't show football - that's what the pubs are there for" but they now have a big screen for World Cup and Wimbledon.

I suppose you have to be pragmatic and get the money in whichever way you can. I'm sure the members idea will go the same way.


----------



## T & P (Jun 29, 2014)

Frankly I'm amazed there have not been at least ten posters criticising OTC for the grammatical mistakes in their tweet above. I guess people are having a lie-in.


----------



## teuchter (Jun 29, 2014)

T & P said:


> Frankly I'm amazed there have not been at least ten posters criticising OTC for the grammatical mistakes in their tweet above. I guess people are having a lie-in.


I nearly said something about the apostrophe last night, but I reined myself in.


----------



## George & Bill (Jun 29, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I nearly said something about the apostrophe last night, but I reined myself in.



There's nothing wrong with the apostrophe, they just reached their 140 characters before they could tell us what it's offering.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jun 29, 2014)

gabi said:


> 'Coleslaw' may have been. But the abbreviated version is almost certainly from down south, New Orleans way, Alabama, I don't know. But I heard it most down there, not up north.


"Slaw" seems to have become code for "yes we are giving you coleslaw but some sort of nice sliced vegetable/cabbage based salad thing will turn up on your plate rather than that awful goo that comes in tubs from supermarkets"


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jun 29, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Seems the membership is on hold and the soft launch is extended for a few months




So what happened to it being a licence condition?

If they do drop it though then good luck to them. There's nothing wrong with changing your approach.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jun 29, 2014)

T & P said:


> Frankly I'm amazed there have not been at least ten posters criticising OTC for the grammatical mistakes in their tweet above. I guess people are having a lie-in.



You're amazed because you're a dick.


----------



## FridgeMagnet (Jun 29, 2014)

slowjoe said:


> There's nothing wrong with the apostrophe, they just reached their 140 characters before they could tell us what it's offering.


You win the Grammar Nazi Generosity Award for today.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 3, 2014)

I've finally made it it down to this bar! I'm not working this week, so I'm able to stay up late enough to think about late night drinking for a change. At about 11.30pm after the Regent and Commercial had closed we finally tried the OTC. 

There were a few men sitting outside who said the place was still open, but there were only two people inside and a women behind a bar.  Alas the reply to my question "are you still serving" was 'sort of' (?) so I think I said: 'can we have a drink then?' she didn't actually say 'no' - despite me trying to clarify 'why don't you just say no?'  but only offered us to have a look around (?) It looked very dull.

Fortunately we got a drink at the Florence.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 3, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> I've finally made it it down to this bar! I'm not working this week, so I'm able to stay up late enough to think about late night drinking for a change. At about 11.30pm after the Regent and Commercial had closed we finally tried the OTC.
> 
> There were a few men sitting outside who said the place was still open, but there were only two people inside and a women behind a bar.  Alas the reply to my question "are you still serving" was 'sort of' (?) so I think I said: 'can we have a drink then?' she didn't actually say 'no' - despite me trying to clarify 'why don't you just say no?'  but only offered us to have a look around (?) It looked very dull.
> 
> Fortunately we got a drink at the Florence.



Hat report?


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 3, 2014)

I predict that Friend of Dorothy was probably wearing a jaunty one as usual.  You were out for a while - I saw buscador in the pub at 8! 

They were doing a good trade on Sunday with the market on, and some sort of gazebo in the yard (which I presume they share with other tenants, so i'm unclear how that works in terms of security). 

Can Urbs lease a second tunnel please?


----------



## buscador (Jul 3, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> I predict that Friend of Dorothy was probably wearing a jaunty one as usual.  You were out for a while - I saw buscador in the pub at 8!
> 
> They were doing a good trade on Sunday with the market on, and some sort of gazebo in the yard (which I presume they share with other tenants, so i'm unclear how that works in terms of security).
> 
> Can Urbs lease a second tunnel please?



Didn't realise you were stalking me.  Sorry, I didn't see you in there.

You predict friendofdorothy's headgear correctly.

Must say, I was unimpressed by otc. It had all the look of a communal lounge in an old people's home that closed down a long time ago.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 3, 2014)

Haha, I was walking on the other side of the street from the Park to Circle O to see junior. 

I tried to wave, but failed.


----------



## buscador (Jul 3, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Haha, I was walking on the other side of the street from the Park to Circle O to see junior.
> 
> I tried to wave, but failed.



So, in fact, you are avoiding me? Or did you just not want to be drawn towards the sirens of Stitch&Bitch?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 3, 2014)

buscador said:


> Didn't realise you were stalking me.  Sorry, I didn't see you in there.
> 
> You predict friendofdorothy's headgear correctly.
> 
> Must say, I was unimpressed by otc. It had all the look of a communal lounge in an old people's home that closed down a long time ago.



It looks like the set from Derek


----------



## Rushy (Jul 3, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> It looks like the set from Derek



but with hats.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> but with hats.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 3, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> View attachment 56934


I feel like I'm there.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I feel like I'm there.



You are...we all are.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 3, 2014)

Sadly the place was lacking in hats. I was the only person in a hat - a nice, big, suitable for a wedding one, at a jaunty angle, but they still wouldn't serve me.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 3, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> Sadly the place was lacking in hats. I was the only person in a hat - a nice, big, suitable for a wedding one, at a jaunty angle, but they still wouldn't serve me.



Not cool.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 3, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> Not cool.



hope you don't mean my hat!


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 3, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> hope you don't mean my hat!



No their lack of hats (and failure to serve you).


----------



## Rushy (Jul 3, 2014)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> No their lack of hats (and failure to serve you).


Maybe hats are just a bit last month?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Maybe hats are just a bit last month?



good style never dates.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Maybe hats are just a bit last month?



Hats and serving customers.


----------



## deadringer (Jul 3, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> I've finally made it it down to this bar! I'm not working this week, so I'm able to stay up late enough to think about late night drinking for a change. At about 11.30pm after the Regent and Commercial had closed we finally tried the OTC.
> 
> There were a few men sitting outside who said the place was still open, but there were only two people inside and a women behind a bar.  Alas the reply to my question "are you still serving" was 'sort of' (?) so I think I said: 'can we have a drink then?' she didn't actually say 'no' - despite me trying to clarify 'why don't you just say no?'  but only offered us to have a look around (?) It looked very dull.
> 
> Fortunately we got a drink at the Florence.




They are only open until 11.30 weeknights, according to their website. Good for them for staying within the terms of their licensing rules lest they feel the outraged wrath of U75 for the blatant disregard of them.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 3, 2014)

deadringer said:


> They are only open until 11.30 weeknights, according to their website. Good for them for staying within the terms of their licensing rules lest they feel the outraged wrath of U75 for the blatant disregard of them.



well it looked 'sort of' open, excuse me for asking ...


----------



## deadringer (Jul 3, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> well it looked 'sort of' open, excuse me for asking ...



Was just explaining why they may have seemed cagey. Not wanting to turn business away but not wanting to get in anymore trouble. More to the thread than you personally.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 3, 2014)

deadringer said:
			
		

> Was just explaining why they may have seemed cagey. Not wanting to turn business away but not wanting to get in anymore trouble.



Rehabilitation works?


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 3, 2014)

deadringer said:


> They are only open until 11.30 weeknights, according to their website. Good for them for staying within the terms of their licensing rules lest they feel the outraged wrath of U75 for the blatant disregard of them.


Fair enough, but if asked 'are you still serving' they should have said 'no, sorry our licence only covers until 11.30', and they didn't by all accounts. A polite refusal would have likely have been fine, rather than some vague unclear answer.

No-one is asking them to break their licence terms.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 3, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> Fair enough, but if asked 'are you still serving' they should have said 'no, sorry our licence only covers until 11.30', and they didn't by all accounts. A polite refusal would have likely have been fine, rather than some vague unclear answer.
> 
> No-one is asking them to break their licence terms.



When they are right, they are wrong!


----------



## T & P (Jul 3, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Maybe hats are just a bit last month?


Or a scheme to easily identify U75 members.


----------



## buscador (Jul 3, 2014)

T & P said:


> Or a scheme to easily identify U75 members.



I can only think of two people in the vicinity who routinely wear hats - LKJ and our very own friendofdorothy.  She's in exalted company.


----------



## Rushy (Jul 3, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> good style never dates.


When I said _hats_ I was not referring to your special numbers which will always have their own space beyond the narrow boundaries of fashion.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 3, 2014)

Aside from sartorial milinery what does their TENs give them? Their FB is saying live music is on now (11.30), which is after on site booze sales - which probably isn't relevant, but I seem to remember a clause on amplified music? 

Seemed a strange thing to post as a live feed, and not as promo. Living close by I'm hardly going to be thinking that all of a sudden my hatless evening needs correction. 

I didn't get round to adding to my experience of visiting so here goes;

Friday night post England game, the Commercial was busy, as was pullens. The female owner was stopping passersby doing sales patter. X2 bouncers who went out of their way to check I wasn't undesired clientele. 13 people looking quite smug inside & a lonely dj (playing 90s winebar music) at the back. Hyper friendly staff. Peculiar furniture. I made my excuses and left. It will do well for Bromley types coming to drink on a Friday.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 4, 2014)

leanderman said:


> When they are right, they are wrong!


Actually it was the point that their customer service leaves something to be desired, not any kind of smugness.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Aside from sartorial milinery what does their TENs give them? Their FB is saying live music is on now (11.30), which is after on site booze sales - which probably isn't relevant, but I seem to remember a clause on amplified music?
> 
> Seemed a strange thing to post as a live feed, and not as promo. Living close by I'm hardly going to be thinking that all of a sudden my hatless evening needs correction.
> 
> ...



How did the bouncers check you were desirable?


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 4, 2014)

I'd bumped into Beardy Mick who'd left the commercial. They stopped both of us (we probably look like an unusual set of drinkers) and intentionally blocked our entrance until they'd asked us a couple of polite questions. I assume to check we weren't pissed ne'erdowells.


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> I'd bumped into Beardy Mick who'd left the commercial. They stopped both of us (we probably look like an unusual set of drinkers) and intentionally blocked our entrance until they'd asked us a couple of polite questions. I assume to check we weren't pissed ne'erdowells.


Can't say I like to be quizzed before I can get into a bar.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 4, 2014)

Happens lots of places - Dogstar foyer, for example. Generally to check you aren't too drunk to legally serve alcohol to.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> I'd bumped into Beardy Mick who'd left the commercial. They stopped both of us (we probably look like an unusual set of drinkers) and intentionally blocked our entrance until they'd asked us a couple of polite questions. I assume to check we weren't pissed ne'erdowells.



I think you look exactly like the usual suspects, but you obviously pass the politeness test.


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Happens lots of places - Dogstar foyer, for example. Generally to check you aren't too drunk to legally serve alcohol to.


That's a large, busy night club open till 4am, that happens to be burdened with its own set of well known licensing restrictions. Not quite the same as entering a nearly empty small bar, I'd say.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 4, 2014)

True, I still work with one of the original Dogstar managers - in fact the one who installed the floor cash drop to stop their takings being robbed, so I'm well aware of it's history. and I've put on enough nights upstairs to know their peccadilloes. The foyer even on quiet nights was used as an assessment tool. talk to the staff without being a teat and you were fine, but if you were squiffy beyond being a walking wallet you're easy to reject. 

As FoD says I'd be sufficiently


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 4, 2014)

(sorry 'smart' phone can't cope with editing posts)

...sufficiently chameleon to drink at the grosvenor & OTC. 

I don't have the arrogant snobbish wealth of the few punters who looked at Mick & I whilst sat on for sale 70's leather tat on sale there, but I'm also guilty of being snobbish towards their 'newbie' status having lived around here for 20+ years and come here, like them from further into the suburbs as a teenager for more 'urban' fun. 

Everyone there looked yuppied Beckenham new purchasers wondering why this bar can't happen nearer their home without it instantly becoming a fitey coke den


----------



## Maggot (Jul 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> It will do well for Bromley types coming to drink on a Friday.


What's a Bromley type?


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 4, 2014)

Someone who thinks drinking in a members only bar, in a railway tunnel in Herne Hill on tatty furniture is somehow edgy and cool?


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> As FoD says I'd be sufficiently



did I say you were sufficient? never called you a chameleon either ...


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 4, 2014)

You didn't. I'd been up working late. 

I sometimes come back to these pages and wonder who on earth was typing with my account the night before.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 4, 2014)

deadringer said:


> They are only open until 11.30 weeknights, according to their website. Good for them for staying within the terms of their licensing rules lest they feel the outraged wrath of U75 for the blatant disregard of them.



One strongly suspects that it's to avoid feeling the wrath of the licencing dept, not the wrath of Urban.


----------



## editor (Jul 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> You didn't. I'd been up working late.
> 
> I sometimes come back to these pages and wonder who on earth was typing with my account the night before.


Ah, is that what's it called now. In that case, I'm going to be "working late" tonight.


----------



## Smick (Jul 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> You didn't. I'd been up working late.
> 
> I sometimes come back to these pages and wonder who on earth was typing with my account the night before.


 For me it's when I wake up after a few beers and see 5 alerts telling me that people have quoted a post which I can't remember writing. Cue the curious scramble to find out who I have defamed.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 4, 2014)

Ha. This place is my procrastination hot spot. I'm shit at multi-tasking, so type these rambling stupid posts as an excuse not to do the actual work I should just finish and go and do something more constructive.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jul 4, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Ha. This place is my procrastination hot spot. I'm shit at multi-tasking, so type these rambling stupid posts as an excuse not to do the actual work I should just finish and go and do something more constructive.



WhyDon'tYouJustSwitchOffYourU75andGoOutand DoSomething Less Boring Instead?


----------



## Greebo (Jul 4, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> WhyDon'tYouJustSwitchOffYourU75andGoOutand DoSomething Less Boring Instead?


Because TrustMeUrbanIsOftenFarLessBoringThanWhateverElseICouldOrShouldBeGettingOnWith


----------



## gaijingirl (Jul 4, 2014)

Greebo said:


> Because TrustMeUrbanIsOftenFarLessBoringThanWhateverElseICouldOrShouldBeGettingOnWith



YesTrustMeTooIKnowThatButSnowy'sPostRemindedMeofTheThemeTuneToAn80sTVShow..


----------



## Greebo (Jul 4, 2014)

gaijingirl said:


> YesTrustMeTooIKnowThatButSnowy'sPostRemindedMeofTheThemeTuneToAn80sTVShow..


First shown in 1973, more or less grew up watching it.  For certain values of "grew up", anyway.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jul 4, 2014)

Greebo said:


> First shown in 1973, more or less grew up watching it.



Well we have that in common then.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 4, 2014)

gaijingirl said:
			
		

> WhyDon'tYouJustSwitchOffYourU75andGoOutand DoSomething Less Boring Instead?



You getting a crew together? Going down there tonight? Let me know the location, hat theme and what tool to bring yeah.


----------



## gaijingirl (Jul 4, 2014)

Badgers said:


> You getting a crew together? Going down there tonight? Let me know the location, hat theme and what tool to bring yeah.



I'm going to bed.. didn't even manage to buy my flag today..


----------



## Badgers (Jul 4, 2014)

gaijingirl said:
			
		

> I'm going to bed.. didn't even manage to buy my flag today..


----------



## se5 (Jul 8, 2014)

I see from their facebook page https://www.facebook.com/pages/OTC-Bar-Off-The-Cuff/345253852282895 that on Wednesday its bring your own for £5 corkage - slightly strange if you are running a wine bar to then allow people to bring in their own wine?


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Jul 8, 2014)

Walked past on Friday evening, there was a bouncer standing outside warmly greeting everyone who walked past, looked in and it seemed fairly busy, I could see a large screen inside the Anderson shelter playing the football. To be honest, it didn't seem very exclusive, if anything quite inviting.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2014)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> Walked past on Friday evening, there was a bouncer standing outside warmly greeting everyone who walked past, looked in and it seemed fairly busy, I could see a large screen inside the Anderson shelter playing the football. To be honest, it didn't seem very exclusive, if anything quite inviting.


Ah great! A football pub. That's better.


----------



## Smick (Jul 8, 2014)

editor said:


> Ah great! A football pub. That's better.


 It's not a pub! They already exist in HH. OTC is different to that.

And it's not for football. The pubs already do that. OTC is different to that.

Aside from that, you are entirely correct.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2014)

Smick said:


> And it's not for football. The pubs already do that. OTC is different to that..


It's not for football but they had a big screen showing the football?


----------



## colacubes (Jul 8, 2014)

editor said:


> It's not for football but they had a big screen showing the football?



I think your sarcasm detector might be on the blink


----------



## Smick (Jul 8, 2014)

Check out the first post:

"We aren't showing football - that's what the other pubs are for"


----------



## MrSki (Jul 8, 2014)

Smick said:


> Check out the first post:
> 
> "We aren't showing football - that's what the other pubs are for"


But the World cup is different. It is only ever four years.


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2014)

Smick said:


> Check out the first post:
> 
> "We aren't showing football - that's what the other pubs are for"


But then you said: " I could see a large screen inside the Anderson shelter playing the football." Or am I missing the 'joke' here ( I have a fine hangover, so that is possible).


----------



## ffsear (Jul 8, 2014)

I was in a tennis pub at the weekend


----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2014)

MrSki said:


> But the World cup is different. It is only ever four years.



It also fills up otherwise quiet pubs and bars


----------



## jimbarkanoodle (Jul 8, 2014)

ok, I cannot absolutely confirm they had the football on, but from the street when I peered in I could definitely see a very large screen at the back of the venue and what looked like Brazil warming up/singing the national anthem before their game, which was due to start around that time.


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (Jul 8, 2014)

Smick said:


> Check out the first post:
> 
> "We aren't showing football - that's what the other pubs are for"


 
The thing is nowhere else in Herne Hill does show the football now (World Cup aside). They'd probably do very well if they did.


----------



## Smick (Jul 8, 2014)

jimbarkanoodle said:


> ok, I cannot absolutely confirm they had the football on, but from the street when I peered in I could definitely see a very large screen at the back of the venue and what looked like Brazil warming up/singing the national anthem before their game, which was due to start around that time.


 Yeah, they definitely have it on. Everything that they claimed to be or to do has gone by the wayside.


----------



## T & P (Jul 8, 2014)

Damned if they do; damned if they don't


----------



## Smick (Jul 8, 2014)

T & P said:


> Damned if they do; damned if they don't


 Nobody damned them for either.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jul 8, 2014)

Smick said:


> Nobody damned them for either.


 Have you read this thread?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 8, 2014)




----------



## Badgers (Jul 8, 2014)

Is that person on the left drinking or blowing a vuvuzela?


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


>



It has to be said that place hardly looks like the place to be for a big game. I count three people, and one seems interested in the game!


----------



## editor (Jul 8, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Is that person on the left drinking or blowing a vuvuzela?


Chewing on an extra large piece of Lidl rolled cheese.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 8, 2014)

editor said:


> Chewing on an extra large piece of Lidl rolled cheese.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 8, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


>


 locally sourced no doubt


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 8, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> locally sourced no doubt



From costcutter....


----------



## Smick (Jul 8, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Have you read this thread?


Sorry, I thought he was referring to the football being shown rather than the entire thread.


----------



## gabi (Jul 9, 2014)

How is this thread still rumbling on? Does anyone seriously give a fuck about this place? Ah, brixton.

I doubt its existence will affect attendances at the Albert of a Friday night if that's what you're worried about.


----------



## pesh (Jul 9, 2014)

gabi said:


> How is this thread still rumbling on?


people keep posting in it


----------



## Ms T (Jul 9, 2014)

I walked past yesterday afternoon and there were quite a few people sitting outside.


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 9, 2014)

creditors already?


----------



## editor (Jul 9, 2014)

gabi said:


> I doubt its existence will affect attendances at the Albert of a Friday night if that's what you're worried about.


You now seem to be producing entirely random sentences. Have you adopted the cut up technique?


----------



## tommers (Jul 9, 2014)

This is getting a bit creepy now guys.


----------



## editor (Jul 14, 2014)

Latest news: 





> Herne Hill’s Off the Cuff bar on Railton Road will find out on Tuesday evening if it is to receive a permanent entertainment licence from Lambeth Council.
> 
> A previously submitted application has been scaled down, with the proposed 2am weekend opening now changed to midnight, with an 11pm closing time during the week.
> http://www.brixtonbuzz.com/2014/07/...ts-decision-from-lambeth-licensing-committee/


With the bar now proposing to close as early as midnight on weekends, I'm struggling to see how the membership scheme provides any real value at all.


----------



## se5 (Jul 14, 2014)

Funny how the licence application continues to maintain "We are applying to run an art bar that showcases local talent, focuses on wine & cheese, sell bespoke and reclaimed furniture. *We are not a pub - there will be no pints, shots or televised sports shown.*" when they have boasted as having the largest screen in Herne Hill to show the world cup and Wibledon - surely some mistake?


----------



## ddraig (Jul 14, 2014)

is there any/much art in there? will they be letting people showcase their art? or is the furniture the art?


----------



## se5 (Jul 14, 2014)

The procedures document in the supporting documents pack at http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/documents/s67316/02c Off the Cuff JB - Supporting Docs.pdf is in need of a good proof read - I wonder how "Dealing with clouds after the Premises is Close Crows Dispersel" and "Dealing with Potential Aggresive and a Beautiful Violent Behaviour" got through? (both sub-headings in the doc)


----------



## editor (Jul 14, 2014)

se5 said:


> "Dealing with clouds after the Premises is Close Crows Dispersel"


Maybe that's an art installation piece?


----------



## editor (Jul 14, 2014)

Mind you, I like the thought of someone "dealing with clouds." I'd certainly go and see that.


----------



## se5 (Jul 14, 2014)

editor said:


> Maybe that's an art installation piece?


Oops slight mistake on my part the actual sub heading is "crowds dispersel" not "crows dispersal" - although crow dispersel sounds more interesting. Overall it sounds to me like someone has dictated the procedures document and then not checked the resulting text.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 14, 2014)

se5 said:


> Funny how the licence application continues to maintain "We are applying to run an art bar that showcases local talent, focuses on wine & cheese, sell bespoke and reclaimed furniture. *We are not a pub - there will be no pints, shots or televised sports shown.*" when they have boasted as having the largest screen in Herne Hill to show the world cup and Wibledon - surely some mistake?



I expect they will only be showing the posh sports events or those in the national interest? Like the World Cup, Wimbledon, Tour de France, Commonwealth Games, Boat Race, Ryder Cup, Roland Garros, Dulwich Hamlet, Masters Golf Tournament, Australian Open, Superbowl, Formula One, Champions League, US Open, Six Nations, Olympic Games, Rugby World Cup, London Marathon, The Ashes and some others.

So not really showing sport to be fair.


----------



## Spymaster (Jul 14, 2014)

se5 said:


> The procedures document in the supporting documents pack at http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/documents/s67316/02c Off the Cuff JB - Supporting Docs.pdf is in need of a good proof read - I wonder how "Dealing with clouds after the Premises is Close Crows Dispersel" and "Dealing with Potential Aggresive and a Beautiful Violent Behaviour" got through? (both sub-headings in the doc)



Sounds like an auto-correct fuck up. Sloppy stuff though.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Jul 14, 2014)

se5 said:


> Funny how the licence application continues to maintain "We are applying to run an art bar that showcases local talent, focuses on wine & cheese, sell bespoke and reclaimed furniture. *We are not a pub - there will be no pints, shots or televised sports shown.*" when they have boasted as having the largest screen in Herne Hill to show the world cup and Wibledon - surely some mistake?



I think they're attempting to differentiate themselves from a "sports bar" or pub where sports are constantly shown.
They're more exclusive than that sort of establishment, you see!


----------



## Leroy Brown (Jul 15, 2014)

I walked past on Saturday night and saw the owners pleading with a bloke in the street.
From what I could glean he was an undercover licencing officer. He seemed pretty adamant they'd broken a few rules.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 15, 2014)

Leroy Brown said:


> I walked past on Saturday night and saw the owners pleading with a bloke in the street.
> From what I could glean he was an undercover licencing officer. He seemed pretty adamant they'd broken a few rules.



'sort of' broken rules perhaps.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 15, 2014)

Hearing is 7pm tonight isn't it?


----------



## Smick (Jul 15, 2014)

Lambeth licensing seem only to exist to arbitrarily impose nonsense rules. Who knows how OTC will fare. They don't deserve to go under on the back of a technicality.


----------



## se5 (Jul 15, 2014)

So it looks like OTC's application wasnt successful tonight



We'll have to wait for the minutes to see why


----------



## Badgers (Jul 16, 2014)

Decision is deferred I read. No detail or length of deferral but assume they can continue trading and will be further reviewed.


----------



## Supine (Jul 16, 2014)

You guys are being a bit stalkerish!


----------



## Badgers (Jul 16, 2014)

Supine said:


> You guys are being a bit stalkerish!


We have bitter and empty lives


----------



## DotCommunist (Jul 16, 2014)

its community minded to keep an eye on the behaviour of Landlords, lest they ruin the neighbourhood by encouraging Licentious Drunkenness


----------



## Belushi (Jul 16, 2014)

Pah, this is nothing compared to that time we got hold of photos of Laurie Penny's bedroom.


----------



## equationgirl (Jul 17, 2014)

Belushi said:


> Pah, this is nothing compared to that time we got hold of photos of Laurie Penny's bedroom.


To be fair, she did post them on the internet.


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 17, 2014)

Bar is closed again tonight - It did seem to be open Thursdays in the past. 

Señora Snowy also that licensing officer moment at the weekend. 

I wonder whether they will try and scoop up passing country show trade. Most other places (pullens, Elaine the flower lady) are having a well earned day off.


----------



## killer b (Jul 17, 2014)

equationgirl said:


> To be fair, she did post them on the internet.


hmm. I'm not sure if that justifies anything.


----------



## geminisnake (Jul 18, 2014)

Badgers said:


> 187 Ferndale Road
> http://thechocolatemuseum.co.uk/#/visitcontact/4569882178



I was thinking of going to see if it was open later today, supposed to be open at 2pm.


----------



## MAD-T-REX (Jul 18, 2014)

'Learning about quality chocolate and its history in Britain'

Is that a single Terry's chocolate orange on a stand?


----------



## snowy_again (Jul 18, 2014)

Closed again tonight - and missing out on loads of trade.

Commercial punters were spilling out on to the street, busiest I've seen it for a while, a result of the hot weather I guess. 

Even as a non alcohol cafe they could have turned over a fair few quid. 

Someone appears to have supplied the Commercial with a bulk buy of deck shoes cos lots of drinkers were wearing them.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 18, 2014)

Closed tonight? Must be under orders not choice  unless there is another problem with venue or staff.


----------



## tommers (Jul 18, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Someone appears to have supplied the Commercial with a bulk buy of deck shoes cos lots of drinkers were wearing them.



Who do these fucking people think they are?


----------



## Badgers (Jul 18, 2014)

tommers said:


> Who do these fucking people think they are?


Shoe salespeople?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 19, 2014)

shitty shoe bastards


----------



## Athos (Jul 19, 2014)

Badgers said:


> Shoe salespeople?



Brougue traders.


----------



## Badgers (Jul 20, 2014)

Anyone go last night for post show wine?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 20, 2014)

Post Shoe Swine


----------



## MrSki (Jul 23, 2014)

Got their licence and now open seven days a week.


----------



## editor (Jul 23, 2014)

MrSki said:


> Got their licence and now open seven days a week.


Do you know their hours and if that membership bollocks is still going on? I want to list them on the Buzz pub/bar guide.


----------



## MrSki (Jul 23, 2014)

editor said:


> Do you know their hours and if that membership bollocks is still going on? I want to list them on the Buzz pub/bar guide.


No just read something on twitter.


----------



## Orang Utan (Jul 23, 2014)

Boo!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 23, 2014)

hats life


----------



## se5 (Jul 23, 2014)

I see the opening hours have been restricted so that they stop serving alcohol at 11 Mon-Thu and at midnight Fri-Sun - no mention of any membership requirements in the application, maybe they've dropped it or will bring it in for OTC v2. Looking at the supporting docs photos at http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=116&MId=8989 I still get the impression that it looks like a charity shop but one housed in a wartime air-raid shelter


----------



## Rushy (Jul 23, 2014)

se5 said:


> I see the opening hours have been restricted so that they stop serving alcohol at 11 Mon-Thu and at midnight Fri-Sun - no mention of any membership requirements in the application, maybe they've dropped it or will bring it in for OTC v2. Looking at the supporting docs photos at http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/ieListDocuments.aspx?CId=116&MId=8989 I still get the impression that it looks like a charity shop but one housed in a wartime air-raid shelter


A wartime air shelter would not have been clad in corrugated plastic.


----------



## ddraig (Jul 23, 2014)

hope all you living near will pop in for the celebratory drinks on offer!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 23, 2014)

Think I'll give it a miss...


----------



## Chilavert (Jul 23, 2014)

Delighted for them.


----------



## leanderman (Jul 23, 2014)

Chilavert said:


> Delighted for them.



Agreed.

Besides, such hopeless amateurism should inspire us all!


----------



## Manter (Jul 23, 2014)

leanderman said:


> Agreed.
> 
> Besides, such hopeless amateurism should inspire us all!


Still planning on opening that bar, then?!


----------



## Rushy (Jul 23, 2014)

Manter said:


> Still planning on opening that bar, then?!


----------



## Manter (Jul 23, 2014)

Rushy said:


> View attachment 58232


----------



## friendofdorothy (Jul 23, 2014)

Rushy said:


> A wartime air shelter would not have been clad in corrugated plastic.



I've got an Anderson shelter as a shed in my garden - should I open it for drinking?


----------



## Rushy (Jul 23, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> I've got an Anderson shelter as a shed in my garden - should I open it for drinking?


Well obviously!
When should we come round?


----------



## Winot (Jul 23, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> I've got an Anderson shelter as a shed in my garden - should I open it for drinking?



Strap line: "For when you want to get bombed".


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 23, 2014)

They shoulda just called it The Shelter....


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 23, 2014)

Then the fact that it's filled with shit furniture and rubbish food makes sense...

They got their theme all wrong...


----------



## se5 (Jul 23, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> I've got an Anderson shelter as a shed in my garden - should I open it for drinking?



Will it have the right vibe? Will you be able to spot and keep out the undesireables? Will you be able to offer something different like supermarket cheese along with the drinks? Will we be able to wear hats?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Jul 23, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> I've got an Anderson shelter as a shed in my garden - should I open it for drinking?


No, Put a skylight in the roof and stick it on the market for £475,000


----------



## tommers (Jul 23, 2014)

Hahahhahahahhahahahahahhahaha.   Hats!   The cheese is probably from Costco!   They've got second hand furniture.

Oh my days


----------



## Fingers (Jul 24, 2014)

I can confirm that they now have their license granted.  Good luck to them


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jul 24, 2014)

Fingers said:


> Good luck



Yes...they clearly do....


----------



## tommers (Jul 24, 2014)

Fingers said:


> I can confirm that they now have their license granted.  Good luck to them


License..... to wear hats I bet! 


Haha.   Oh wow.  Did that just happen?


----------



## Fingers (Jul 24, 2014)

tommers said:


> License..... to wear hats I bet!
> 
> 
> Haha.   Oh wow.  Did that just happen?



Last night at a licensing meeting I believe.  This is from a status update from the owner's Facebook page.


----------



## alfajobrob (Aug 26, 2014)

OTCbarSE24 said:


> Not really. We are always wearing hats and the like - just be cool!



For posterity.


----------



## Smick (Aug 26, 2014)

I have missed this thread.


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2014)

Here's what they're currently offering: 


> Wednesday: The Arches Film Society
> Thursday: Live Bands
> Friday/Saturday: Private members evenings after 7pm
> Sunday: Furniture auctions


Membership is still £10/month. And they're selling cupcakes for £3.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 26, 2014)




----------



## joustmaster (Aug 26, 2014)

isn't £3 cheap for a cupcake, in a bar?
don't shops sell them for around that price?

I don't really have any frame of reference for this.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 26, 2014)

Even I know about the cupcake craze so surely it's jumped the shark by now? Hipsters have probably moved on to scones or something.


----------



## boohoo (Aug 26, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> I've got an Anderson shelter as a shed in my garden - should I open it for drinking?



That's cool - can I come and see it?


----------



## Dan U (Aug 26, 2014)

They are called brunchers, not hipsters now apparently.


----------



## boohoo (Aug 26, 2014)

£3 for cupcakes seems a lot.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 26, 2014)

Hatty Cakes


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> isn't £3 cheap for a cupcake, in a bar?
> don't shops sell them for around that price?
> 
> I don't really have any frame of reference for this.


They're usually around £1.50-£2.50, although their appeal remains a mystery to me.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 26, 2014)

editor said:


> They're usually around £2-£2.50, although their appeal remains a mystery to me.


me too. 

i've just googled. that cupcake shop in brixton, that I've heard mentioned on here a few times, sells them for £2.50.
So £3 for a pub to eat them in sounds reasonable.
well, not reasonable. a cupcake should cost 20p, and be sold by a little old lady at a village fete.

Scotch eggs always cost far too much in bars. I saw one for £7 the other day.


----------



## editor (Aug 26, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> i've just googled. that cupcake shop in brixton, that I've heard mentioned on here a few times, sells them for £2.50.
> So £3 for a pub to eat them in sounds reasonable.


To be fair, that is from a rather well known and rather trendy cupcake outlet right next to the trendy Market Row, and they're vegan too. Not sure if that makes them more valuable though. 75p seems about the right price to me.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 26, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> Scotch eggs always cost far too much in bars. I saw one for £7 the other day.


 
I'd expect the meat to be real scotchman at that price.


----------



## brixtonblade (Aug 26, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> me too.
> Scotch eggs always cost far too much in bars. I saw one for £7 the other day.



£7!  I love a scotcho but that's insane.


----------



## Belushi (Aug 26, 2014)

brixtonblade said:


> £7!  I love a scotcho but that's insane.



Or is it just that we're old


----------



## brixtonblade (Aug 26, 2014)

Whilst I am old, a scotcho cant cost almost twice what a pint costs (especially if said pint costs 4 quid, grumble grumble)


----------



## DotCommunist (Aug 26, 2014)

you neglected to mention the Herne Hill Wine Club they are hosting. Which sounds akin to my personal dantean fourth circle of hell.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 26, 2014)

brixtonblade said:


> Whilst I am old, a scotcho cant cost almost twice what a pint costs (especially if said pint costs 4 quid, grumble grumble)


I paid 6.70 for a pint last week. 

Maybe I should stop going to these trendy egg and pint places. 
I'll be wearing a hat soon, if I'm not careful.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 26, 2014)

joustmaster said:


> I paid 6.70 for a pint last week.
> 
> Maybe I should stop going to these trendy egg and pint places.
> I'll be wearing a hat soon, if I'm not careful.


----------



## joustmaster (Aug 26, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


>


just be cool


----------



## wtfftw (Aug 26, 2014)

It's fairy cakes that you get at fêtes. Cupcakes are an over-sized over-iced (frosted) american import. /mum


----------



## kittyP (Aug 26, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> I've got an Anderson shelter as a shed in my garden - should I open it for drinking?



It would be better than that bloody dinner and drinks in a skip idea that they are ACTUALLY DOING!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 26, 2014)

Back in the good ol bad ol days when I was on the dole for a long time my dinner would often come out the cash and carry skip...usually following a game of dodge the security guards...


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Aug 26, 2014)

kittyP said:


> It would be better than that bloody dinner and drinks in a skip idea that they are ACTUALLY DOING!


What's that now?!

And I despise cupcakes. All that sugary gunk on the top. Ugh.


----------



## friendofdorothy (Aug 27, 2014)

wtfftw said:


> It's fairy cakes that you get at fêtes. Cupcakes are an over-sized over-iced (frosted) american import. /mum



Yes quite right - what is wrong with proper locally sourced fairy cakes...


----------



## Manter (Aug 27, 2014)

friendofdorothy said:


> Yes quite right - what is wrong with proper locally sourced fairy cakes...


They go stale really quickly. Basically they are light and fluffy and delicious and need eating the same day. Whereas cupcakes are heavy and solid and last much longer, so commercially make more sense.


----------



## MrSki (Aug 27, 2014)

So has anyone been lately? First hand reports & all that. How many of the punters were wearing hats?


----------



## Fingers (Aug 27, 2014)

MrSki said:


> So has anyone been lately? First hand reports & all that. How many of the punters were wearing hats?



I went a couple of weeks ago and it was fine. There was a few in, no one wearing a hat apart from myself. No draft beer though so it counts it out as a regular haunt.


----------



## se5 (Aug 27, 2014)

Fingers said:


> I went a couple of weeks ago and it was fine. There was a few in, no one wearing a hat apart from myself. No draft beer though so it counts it out as a regular haunt.



Was the vibe 'exclusive'? Did you try the cheese?


----------



## editor (Aug 27, 2014)

Fingers said:


> I went a couple of weeks ago and it was fine. There was a few in, no one wearing a hat apart from myself. No draft beer though so it counts it out as a regular haunt.


Prices? Hats?


----------



## gaijingirl (Aug 28, 2014)

Manter said:


> They go stale really quickly. Basically they are light and fluffy and delicious and need eating the same day. Whereas cupcakes are heavy and solid and last much longer, so commercially make more sense.



They freeze well though.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 28, 2014)

It was packed inside and out yesterday!!!


----------



## SarfLondoner (Aug 28, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> It was packed inside and out yesterday!!!



"Compact,vibrant,great views and hideously close to the underground".


----------



## discobastard (Aug 29, 2014)

Fingers said:


> I went a couple of weeks ago and it was fine. There was a few in, no one wearing a hat apart from myself. No draft beer though so it counts it out as a regular haunt.


 
I was in there about a month ago to see what the fuss was all about.  The bar staff were quite friendly, there were couples and some local families in there.  It was quite a diverse crowd actually.  The music was jazzy house.  The wine was quite nice (we had two glasses of house wine).  There were minimal, if any, hats. There were quite a lot of young kids/babies for 11pm on a Saturday.  There were people talking loudly about their friends who lived overseas.

It wasn't for me (esp the jazzy house - I need to clear about that), but there was nothing inherently bad or evil about it, it was friendly - people said hello and were very good natured. But I'm not desperate to go back unless I find myself in Herne Hill late on and fancy a quiet drink (but then I won't be a member and won't be able to get in).

I suspect the members thing may get dropped - given how many people were in I imagine they would not survive if everybody had to pay a year's fee upfront (£10 a month maybe but I imagine it's quite a hassle doing it monthly).  I guess it's all about what you're into - but then if I had to, I'd pay £100 to be a member of the Windmill if I got got free Fri/Sat entry but then that's just me - I enjoy watching random (I *hate* that word) bands.


----------



## gabi (Aug 29, 2014)

I'd agree. I've been to a few members' bars in central London - and the members get what they pay for. Fantastic drinks, excellent service, beautiful surroundings etc. But fucking expensive.

I don't see the point of this place being a members'. It's not the Groucho. It's shitter than the wine bar by the station by the looks of it.


----------



## editor (Aug 29, 2014)

discobastard said:


> I guess it's all about what you're into - but then if I had to, I'd pay £100 to be a member of the Windmill if I got got free Fri/Sat entry but then that's just me - I enjoy watching random (I *hate* that word) bands.


Yes, but at the Windmill you'd be getting to see some really fantastic up-and-coming bands in what is often regarded as one of the best small live music venues in the land.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 29, 2014)

editor said:


> Yes, but at the Windmill you'd be getting to see some really fantastic up-and-coming bands in what is often regarded as one of the best small live music venues in the land.


Surely 'Yes, and....' rather than 'but'. 

To each their own (even if it is soulless jazz house).  And I've seen some truly terrible bands at the windmill. 

Just trying to be even-handed about all this.


----------



## editor (Aug 29, 2014)

discobastard said:


> Surely 'Yes, and....' rather than 'but'.
> 
> To each their own (even if it is soulless jazz house).  And I've seen some truly terrible bands at the windmill.
> 
> Just trying to be even-handed about all this.


I understand that, but it's quite a stretch to compare one of London's best small venues with a reputation for booking interesting acts with a railway arch with a shit sound system and no real stage. And no bands anyone's ever heard of (when they bother to advertise what's on).


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Aug 29, 2014)

They should get some locally sourced cheese at the Windmill if they really want to compete


----------



## editor (Aug 29, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> They should get some locally sourced cheese at the Windmill if they really want to compete


And make the wearing of jaunty hats a condition of entry.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 29, 2014)

Hats made of cheese....


----------



## editor (Aug 29, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Hats made of cheese....


_Antique _hats made of cheese.


----------



## tommers (Aug 29, 2014)

editor said:


> Yes, but at the Windmill you'd be getting to see some really fantastic up-and-coming bands in what is often regarded as one of the best small live music venues in the land.


Different strokes innit?   My work colleague went to the windmill and said it was a "dump"  and "don't buy the wine because it was actually off". 

She liked the gig though.


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## Mrs Miggins (Aug 29, 2014)

I've missed this thread


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## editor (Aug 29, 2014)

tommers said:


> Different strokes innit?   My work colleague went to the windmill and said it was a "dump"  and "don't buy the wine because it was actually off".
> 
> She liked the gig though.


Sure. But the Windmill isn't a private members bar.


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## Winot (Aug 29, 2014)

Drinking wine at the Windmill!


----------



## superfly101 (Aug 29, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Hats made of cheese....


Homers Natcho hat with melted cheese dip in the top bit?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Aug 29, 2014)

tommers said:


> Different strokes innit?   My work colleague went to the windmill and said it was a "dump"  and "don't buy the wine because it was actually off".


To be fair, it is a bit of a dump and not somewhere I'd even think of asking for wine!


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 29, 2014)

The coke is fine though


----------



## discobastard (Aug 29, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> To be fair, it is a bit of a dump and not somewhere I'd even think of asking for wine!


I have had a fair amount of the wine in the Windmill. It's Wolf Blass Yellow Label. £7.99 in my local. 
Not unpleasant by any stretch, but not fine either.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 29, 2014)

.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 29, 2014)

They got some new old furniture for sale this week...


----------



## teuchter (Aug 29, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> I've missed this thread


I'd suggest we need:
- More opinions from people who've not actually been to OTC
- More great jokes about hats
- More comparisons with other venues that are different because they are different 
- Some reminders that it's a "members' bar"
- More focus on the corrugated lining to the railway arch.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 29, 2014)

...and more cheese...


----------



## tommers (Aug 29, 2014)

Hats!


----------



## kittyP (Aug 29, 2014)

Mrs Miggins said:


> To be fair, it is a bit of a dump and not somewhere I'd even think of asking for wine!



Oh it is a dump but some people (like me) like dumps with character rather than nice but clinical places. 
And some people like the opposite.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Aug 29, 2014)




----------



## el-ahrairah (Aug 29, 2014)

tommers said:


> Different strokes innit?   My work colleague went to the windmill and said it was a "dump"  and "don't buy the wine because it was actually off".
> 
> She liked the gig though.


 
to be fair, anyone who goes to the windmill and drinks wine is going to be disappointed.   that bottle had probably been sitting there for months.


----------



## tommers (Aug 29, 2014)

el-ahrairah said:


> to be fair, anyone who goes to the windmill and drinks wine is going to be disappointed.   that bottle had probably been sitting there for months.


It was quite funny listening to somebody who had never been there before describing it.


----------



## Orang Utan (Aug 29, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> They got some new old furniture for sale this week...


That looks like a bomb shelter or a cell.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 29, 2014)

Orang Utan said:


> That looks like a bomb shelter or a cell.



It's OTC....honest guv


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 29, 2014)

Bloody hipsters...


----------



## discobastard (Aug 29, 2014)

editor said:


> I understand that, but it's quite a stretch to compare one of London's best small venues with a reputation for booking interesting acts with a railway arch with a shit sound system and no real stage. And no bands anyone's ever heard of (when they bother to advertise what's on).


My point is that I'm not really comparing  them though.  It's that for some people, a night at OTC is far preferable to a night at the Windmill.  And I can fully understand that.
And I certainly wouldn't want to go to the Windmill every night, brilliant though it is.  It's not in direct competition - OTC doesn't *have* to have the best soundsystem in South London if its catering to a casual audience.  In the same way that would be a bit pointless to start slagging off the Windmill cos it doesn't serve cheese.  And as we've seen here there are people that think the Windmill is a dump and would never want to set foot in it again.  And I can understand that also - the toilets are pretty rank.  But I overlook that because of what else it offers that it important to me (i.e. the music).  

Cheese and wine are perhaps more important to others than live music, and that is their choice (and I'm partial to that myself sometimes - but not when I'm at a gig).


----------



## editor (Aug 29, 2014)

discobastard said:


> Cheese and wine are perhaps more important to others than live music, and that is their choice (and I'm partial to that myself sometimes - but not when I'm at a gig).


I'm sure it is. But the whole 'private members' schtick and all their guff about 'security' and wanting to attract the right sort of crowd is what makes this please stand out. But we've been through al this and I'm still struggling to see why the Windmill is being brought into this.


----------



## editor (Aug 29, 2014)

teuchter said:


> I'd suggest we need:
> - More opinions from people who've not actually been to OTC
> - More great jokes about hats
> - More comparisons with other venues that are different because they are different
> ...


I'd suggest "we'd" need a lot less grumpy, sneery teuchter. Everywhere.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 29, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm sure it is. But the whole 'private members' schtick and all their guff about 'security' and wanting to attract the right sort of crowd is what makes this please stand out. But we've been through al this and I'm still struggling to see why the Windmill is being brought into this.


It was being used as an example attempt to show how different people have different preferences. And different businesses spring up to cater for these preferences. 

And I think I've said it before, but some businesses fail and some businesses succeed according to whether they adequately meet people's needs and preferences, and the price they are willing to pay to have those needs and preferences satisfied. And I think that's ok, isn't it?

If every business tried to cater for and please everybody it would be a right mess. 

Re membership, a sense of belonging can be a very important driver from a psychological POV. In the same way that being a member of U75 meets some very basic belonging and esteem needs for some.  And some businesses recognise that and will attempt to meet those needs. And they'll succeed or fail.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 29, 2014)

editor said:


> I'm sure it is. But the whole 'private members' schtick and all their guff about 'security' and wanting to attract the right sort of crowd is what makes this please stand out. But we've been through al this and I'm still struggling to see why the Windmill is being brought into this.


And you nailed it actually, it does make the place stand out. They are differentiating themselves for the kind of people who are pleased and reassured by that. But like I say, once the membership fees kick in, the place may well lose a lot of Friday and Saturday business. And they'll either stick religiously with it and go out of business, or adapt and survive. And that's the basis of a competitive economy that caters to a wide range of needs.


----------



## snowy_again (Aug 29, 2014)

8-10 people in there as I just strolled by. No music, but I don't really understand the gripes about the 'not a real stage'; having fallen off the windmill beer crates & ply enough times. 

 The Commercial was bustling


----------



## editor (Aug 29, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> 8-10 people in there as I just strolled by. No music, but I don't really understand the gripes about the 'not a real stage'; having fallen off the windmill beer crates & ply enough times.


If you're in band you really appreciate a decent sized stage. And good monitors. And a good PA. And a good digital mixer. And lighting. And the ability to play at a decent volume. And a reasonably priced bar so your mates can get drunk. 

I could be wrong, but I suspect the OTC is bereft of all of the above qualities.


----------



## snowy_again (Aug 29, 2014)

Thanks for the tips - i've been in a band too. Did main stage at standon calling this month. 

And as much as I love the windmill, it only manages the loudness and relatively cheap booze on those criteria. 

Everything else shambolic about it is charming and sorts the wheat from the chaff, no manner of quality PA & kit makes a shit artist better when it's a toilet tour venue. 

I've seen some cracking gigs there & their booker is clearly a genie.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 30, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> 8-10 people in there as I just strolled by. No music, but I don't really understand the gripes about the 'not a real stage'; having fallen off the windmill beer crates & ply enough times.
> 
> The Commercial was bustling


They've got a new house kit in the windmill now  (and have always had great engineers) but I've fallen foul of very dodgy drum hardware in the past. Gaffer tape isn't enough to hold your cymbals in place, that's for sure.


----------



## deadringer (Aug 30, 2014)

editor said:


> I'd suggest "we'd" need a lot less *grumpy*, *sneery* teuchter. Everywhere.




Sometimes we think we are looking out of a window, but it's actually a mirror.


----------



## deadringer (Aug 30, 2014)

editor said:


> If you're in band you really appreciate a decent sized stage. And good monitors. And a good PA. And a good digital mixer. And lighting. And the ability to play at a decent volume. And a reasonably priced bar so your mates can get drunk.
> 
> I could be wrong, but I suspect the OTC is bereft of all of the above qualities.




It sounds to me that they are not really after bands that are going to turn up and rock out the place with a deafening set, in which case all the described above is a little OTT. I'm guessing they are more after some unplugged type bands,or something with a little light amplification perhaps, suitable to the venue and people in it.


----------



## snowy_again (Aug 30, 2014)

Not been for a while, mostly as my ex guitar player did glam not to my taste there, but as you say had engineers/sound people who could conjour angels out of cowshit! 

My memory is always of a terrible backline, awful tequila and grinning.


----------



## discobastard (Aug 30, 2014)

editor said:


> If you're in band you really appreciate a decent sized stage. And good monitors. And a good PA. And a good digital mixer. And lighting. And the ability to play at a decent volume. And a reasonably priced bar so your mates can get drunk.
> 
> I could be wrong, but I suspect the OTC is bereft of all of the above qualities.


Of course you do. And maybe they have a decent setup. Or a reasonable setup. Or a shit setup. They could hire it in. But for a lot of bands, just the opportunity to play is good enough. 

The 12 bar club in town is a great venue, but the stage is fucking minuscule. Doesn't stop a lot of great bands playing there. 

And maybe the people in those bands have mates that want to drink wine and possibly eat cheese and are happy to pay the prices in OTC. 

You're making a lot of assumptions that just aren't necessary.  And yes, you could be wrong. You could also be right.


----------



## teuchter (Aug 30, 2014)

Ok - we've done the Windmill. Now shall we compare OTC with Morleys furniture department? I've heard they have a much larger choice of three piece suites there. I have not been in OTC but I looked at some photos on the internet and it looks like they are lacking in this regard. Also does all the furniture have flame retardent fabric? We need to know.


----------



## Rushy (Aug 30, 2014)

I forgot to mention that Brixton already has a private members club.



> *PRIVATE MEMBERS CLUB*
> The Fridge Bar will be offering Membership cards to join our Private Members Club.
> 
> Guests must be stunningly gorgeous or handsome, funny, intelligent and like a good laugh. *Membership is free before April 2014.* £5 thereafter.



The entry requirements seem suspiciously designed to exclude Urbanites.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Aug 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I forgot to mention that Brixton already has a private members club.
> 
> 
> 
> The entry requirements seem suspiciously designed to exclude Urbanites.



I will get in with no problem then


----------



## Rushy (Aug 30, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> I will get in with no problem then


Maybe they'll let you bring the rest of us in as guests?


----------



## SarfLondoner (Aug 30, 2014)

teuchter said:


> Ok - we've done the Windmill. Now shall we compare OTC with Morleys furniture department? I've heard they have a much larger choice of three piece suites there. I have not been in OTC but I looked at some photos on the internet and it looks like they are lacking in this regard. Also does all the furniture have flame retardent fabric? We need to know.



You are boring,predictable and as negative as the next person.How is your moaning and swiping any different to whats on this thread?


----------



## editor (Aug 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I forgot to mention that Brixton already has a private members club.


Just a bit cheaper though. And with much longer hours.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Aug 30, 2014)

Rushy said:


> Maybe they'll let you bring the rest of us in as guests?



I will speak to my connections and bend a few ears


----------



## mango5 (Aug 30, 2014)

Passed by a couple of times last night, around 8pm and 10pm.  Just a handful of people in there while the nearby pubs were bursting with punters.  Doors wide open but it didn't seem inviting.


----------



## Rushy (Aug 30, 2014)

mango5 said:


> Passed by a couple of times last night, around 8pm and 10pm.  Just a handful of people in there while the nearby pubs were bursting with punters.  Doors wide open but it didn't seem inviting.


It's a weird spot. Seems to open quite randomly. Tends to be busiest 2am - 5am when it is operating and gets utterly jammed.


----------



## Frances Lengel (Aug 31, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Hatty Cakes



Hattie Jacques


----------



## Winot (Aug 31, 2014)

Rushy said:


> It's a weird spot. Seems to open quite randomly. Tends to be busiest 2am - 5am when it is operating and gets utterly jammed.



Cos nothing else is open that time?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Aug 31, 2014)

Frances Lengel said:


> Hattie Jacques
> View attachment 60295


 yes...that was the point


----------



## se5 (Sep 1, 2014)

Rushy said:


> It's a weird spot. Seems to open quite randomly. Tends to be busiest 2am - 5am when it is operating and gets utterly jammed.



Hmm I thought they were only licensed to midnight?


----------



## Rushy (Sep 1, 2014)

se5 said:


> Hmm I thought they were only licensed to midnight?


Extraordinarily they have a 24hr licence (with no sound restrictions) - or so it was last time I checked about three years ago.


----------



## editor (Sep 11, 2014)

Just walked through Herne Hill. 
The Commercial = packed. 
OTC = completely empty.


----------



## brixtonblade (Sep 11, 2014)

Everyone inside might have their invisibility hats on.


----------



## Smick (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> Just walked through Herne Hill.
> The Commercial = packed.
> OTC = completely empty.


I think they opened at the beginning of May, it's now the middle of September and they are still trading.

I think they have done well. Unless they are borrowing or depleting savings to keep it going, or not taking a wage, then they might just have something.

I certainly didn't see it lasting this long.


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

Smick said:


> I think they have done well. Unless they are borrowing or depleting savings to keep it going, or not taking a wage, then they might just have something.


I don't think physically being open equates to 'doing well,' especially when the bar opposite is packed and there's not a soul to be seen in OTC.


----------



## Smick (Sep 12, 2014)

editor said:


> I don't think physically being open equates to 'doing well,' especially when the bar opposite is packed and there's not a soul to be seen in OTC.


I didn't give them five months trading though. I was sure they'd be closed within eight weeks.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 12, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> You are boring,predictable and as negative as the next person.How is your moaning and swiping any different to whats on this thread?



Because it's done by himself, and he has a high opinion of himself?


----------



## editor (Sep 12, 2014)

discobastard said:


> Of course you do. And maybe they have a decent setup. Or a reasonable setup. Or a shit setup. They could hire it in. But for a lot of bands, just the opportunity to play is good enough.


That's because the 12 Bar is cheap and is well respected as an unpretentious rock'n'roll venue that's open to all where the bands are looked after and there's almost always a crowd. Could you say the same of OTC?

I'm in a band but I'm not looking for the 'opportunity' to play in a shit venue with no advertising, no crowd and pricey beers, thanks.


----------



## discobastard (Sep 13, 2014)

editor said:


> That's because the 12 Bar is cheap and is well respected as an unpretentious rock'n'roll venue that's open to all where the bands are looked after and there's almost always a crowd. Could you say the same of OTC?
> 
> I'm in a band but I'm not looking for the 'opportunity' to play in a shit venue with no advertising, no crowd and pricey beers, thanks.



You continue to miss the point quite spectacularly, though that's fine.  And let's face it, the world doesn't revolve around you.  I suspect the people that choose to go to OTC might not want to listen to your band (the word 'choose' is quite important in that sentence).  But maybe some of them do.  Who knows?  Does that make them bad people?

You might think that the venue is 'shit', but many people might not.  Hey, if you played there, you might get a big crowd - all your friends might come along to hear you.  Maybe at the end of the night they'd be saying 'hey Editor, great set, but the beer was fucking pricey, so we've had a shit night.  What the fuck are you playing at?'  Maybe they wouldn't.

It DOESN'T MATTER.  Brush the chip from your shoulder and direct that negative energy somewhere else.  Do you think that all the bands that do play there are shit/idiots because they choose to do so?  Do you hate all the people that choose to go there for a glass of wine and listen to some (in some cases) soulless music after a hard week's work?   Going into an office/school/hospital and repeating the same tasks over and over to earn their living every single day?  Are you denying them the right to spend their hard earned cash the way they want to?

They have a wanky business model and they sell wine and cheese that actually isn't that pricey in the grand scheme of things.  They are a venue that exists in an area that has a lot of people with disposable income.  But like you said yourself, the Commercial was packed the other night (you seemed to delight in that - is that an endorsement of the Commercial?), so there are other places to go.  So go there.  But beware people, the beer and wine is pretty fucking pricey in there also, as are their burgers ('add bacon jam for £2.00').  The food in your beloved Effra Social is kind of expensive too; that's a pretty shit venue for bands too (and full of twenty-somethings from Clapham - is that a good or bad thing - you decide).

You're making very subjective judgments (which I guess you're entitled to do - this is a free forum, I think) but putting them forward as if they're objective, which seems kind of irresponsible.


----------



## Rushy (Sep 13, 2014)

I'm not sure there is much to learn by comparing the respect levels of a venue which has been operating in one form or another for decades with one which just opened.


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2014)

discobastard said:


> The food in your beloved Effra Social is kind of expensive too; that's a pretty shit venue for bands too (and full of twenty-somethings from Clapham - is that a good or bad thing - you decide).


I didn't "delight" in seeing the Commercial busy (I was stating a fact), I do not view the Effra Social, as 'beloved' and I've no idea where its patrons come from. They certainly weren't all twenty-somethings last time I was there (is that important? what's the age of the OTC customers?).

And I've no idea what bands (if any) have played the OTC because they are so shit at promoting them (that's kind of important if you're in a band). They don't even bother listing their events on Brixton Buzz, but that's because at weekkends it turns into a private members club.


discobastard said:


> You're making very subjective judgments (which I guess you're entitled to do - this is a free forum, I think) but putting them forward as if they're objective, which seems kind of irresponsible.


The hypocrisy contained in your post really is top notch, by the way!


----------



## editor (Sep 13, 2014)

Rushy said:


> I'm not sure there is much to learn by comparing the respect levels of a venue which has been operating in one form or another for decades with one which just opened.


It's really quite easy for a new venue to quickly gain the respect of musicians, bookers and the public. It's not hard to improve on some of the existing venues either, if you're so inclined.

Musicians and punters respect promoters and venues that make an effort.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Sep 13, 2014)

To be fair, whatever else you might feel about OTC, I'd be a bit wary of even rehearsing in a space clad in corrugated iron, let alone actually playing there. Corrugated metal sheeting doesn't do a lot to minimise extraneous sound reflection! The sound engineer would certainly earn his coin!


----------



## wurlycurly (Sep 13, 2014)

Smick said:


> I didn't give them five months trading though. I was sure they'd be closed within eight weeks.





Smick said:


> I didn't give them five months trading though. I was sure they'd be closed within eight weeks.





ViolentPanda said:


> To be fair, whatever else you might feel about OTC, I'd be a bit wary of even rehearsing in a space clad in corrugated iron, let alone actually playing there. Corrugated metal sheeting doesn't do a lot to minimise extraneous sound reflection! The sound engineer would certainly earn his coin!


 
The acoustics are dreadful, verging on the headache-inducing.  I've really tried to give the place a chance but it's too weird for me. Bit like a man cave designed by a woman with very poor taste. I've been twice and it was like stumbling across a really shit house party. Almost felt obliged to introduce myself to the other drinkers, if you know what I mean. Very strange. Sitting outside on a Sunday is excellent if the weather is okay.  I'm hoping it stays open long enough to evolve into something better.


----------



## SarfLondoner (Sep 13, 2014)

wurlycurly said:


> The acoustics are dreadful, verging on the headache-inducing.  I've really tried to give the place a chance but it's too weird for me. Bit like a man cave designed by a woman with very poor taste. I've been twice and it was like stumbling across a really shit house party. Almost felt obliged to introduce myself to the other drinkers, if you know what I mean. Very strange. Sitting outside on a Sunday is excellent if the weather is okay.  I'm hoping it stays open long enough to evolve into something better.


"Bit like a man cave designed by a woman with very poor taste"


----------



## Rushy (Sep 14, 2014)

SarfLondoner said:


> "Bit like a man cave designed by a woman with very poor taste"


Yes - I also thought that was worthy of a requote!


----------



## Tricky Skills (Dec 24, 2014)

Bumping this thread with some trepidation...

The Licensing Sub-Committee has granted a Temporary Event Notice for Off the Cuff for NYE. The Council officers however described the current licence holders as not being "responsible."

The claims made in the report have been disputed.

BBuzz piece.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 24, 2014)

give em 6 months


----------



## Belushi (Dec 24, 2014)

This was one of the threads of the year  :thumbs :


----------



## snowy_again (Dec 24, 2014)

£35 entry & were attempting to charge perfomers the same was the last I'd heard.


----------



## Manter (Dec 24, 2014)

In what way 'not responsible'?!


----------



## ddraig (Dec 24, 2014)

taking the piss with the licence 
going over time and noise looks like


----------



## Tricky Skills (Dec 24, 2014)

Manter said:


> In what way 'not responsible'?!



For starters:

"The Noise Service team had concerns to the manner in which the premises was being operated, since it first opened.

It was suggested that the premises were a ‘problem premises’ as they consistently had noise issues and were not complying with the conditions of their licence.

On two occasions, 20 September and 11 October the premises had been found to be in breach of the abatement notice and prosecutions proceedings had commenced.

The premises were not complying with opening hours agreed and they remained opened beyond their terminal hour. This was found by the officer on one of his visits to the premises.”

All _disputed_ by the licence holders, btw.

Full Council report [pdf].


----------



## Manter (Dec 24, 2014)

Odd that they get a nye licence if they are in breach. If there is no downside/sanction for being in breach, well, why not break the rules?

E2 clarify I wonder why the licensing committee are so toothless, not that I am pro the owners


----------



## Tricky Skills (Dec 24, 2014)

I read it as the opposite. The Licensing Committee is the one with the power here. The objective, apolitical officers strongly recommended that the NYE licence shouldn't be granted. In fact they went further - they wanted a restriction on the current licence.

The three Cllr's that make up the Committee ignored this advice and waved through the NYE TEN.

Most odd.


----------



## Manter (Dec 24, 2014)

How odd


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 24, 2014)

Filthy lucre


----------



## tommers (Dec 24, 2014)

Are we saying they bribed the licensing committee?


----------



## Tricky Skills (Dec 24, 2014)

tommers said:


> Are we saying they bribed the licensing committee?



I am most certainly not saying this 

I'm pretty sure that those days are long gone in most aspects of local government. There are legitimate ways of greasing the plans of the likes of the Planning Committee these days.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 24, 2014)

plans or palms?


----------



## snowy_again (Dec 24, 2014)

Brown paper bags full of cut out hats?


----------



## se5 (Dec 27, 2014)

Tricky Skills said:


> I read it as the opposite. The Licensing Committee is the one with the power here. The objective, apolitical officers strongly recommended that the NYE licence shouldn't be granted. In fact they went further - they wanted a restriction on the current licence.
> 
> The three Cllr's that make up the Committee ignored this advice and waved through the NYE TEN.
> 
> Most odd.




Maybe its a 'give them enough rope' type situation?


----------



## se5 (Dec 27, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> Brown paper bags full of cut out hats?



the hatmakers' federation of London is very powerful and will do everything it can to ensure continued hat sales in South London


----------



## Twattor (Dec 28, 2014)

this entire thread smacks of bullying.

please don't mock those who need cranial coverings.


----------



## Smick (Dec 31, 2014)

1,940 posts. I thought it was extreme when we got to 1,000. I reckon we'll see 2,000.


----------



## editor (Dec 31, 2014)

Hats at OTC.


----------



## snowy_again (Dec 31, 2014)

^^^ Looks remarkably like the Queen's Head landlord.


----------



## editor (Dec 31, 2014)

snowy_again said:


> ^^^ Looks remarkably like the Queen's Head landlord.


Wrong colour, surely?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 31, 2014)

Hatty New Year!


----------



## editor (Dec 31, 2014)

Winning at OTC.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Dec 31, 2014)

thirty five fucking quid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## editor (Dec 31, 2014)

Nanker Phelge said:


> thirty five fucking quid!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Fuck me. £35 for three (unnamed) DJs and a (unnamed) band playing unspecified styles of music until an unspecified 'late' time.


----------



## ddraig (Dec 31, 2014)

funny as fuck


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Jan 1, 2015)

editor said:


> Fuck me. £35 for three (unnamed) DJs and a (unnamed) band playing unspecified styles of music until an unspecified 'late' time.



Secret cokeheads ball


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jan 1, 2015)

editor said:


> Fuck me. £35 for three (unnamed) DJs and a (unnamed) band playing unspecified styles of music until an unspecified 'late' time.


Keeping the riff raff out innit
i.e. you lot


----------



## ddraig (Jan 1, 2015)

wonder how many they had?


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 2, 2015)

ddraig said:


> wonder how many they had?


Don't know but their facebook page has photos of the place looking pretty packed.

also says they sold 100 tickets with 40 more available for sale, which would have breached the licence given for NYE if more than 100 people were there.

Their twitter page says NYE was £40 btw, not £35.


----------



## editor (Jan 2, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> Don't know but their facebook page has photos of the place looking pretty packed.


I just took a look. It looks like there's about 30 people there, plus the still unspecified band. Their jazz night on Monday appears to be have been completely bereft of punters.

If only they bothered to advertise....


----------



## equationgirl (Jan 2, 2015)

editor said:


> I just took a look. It looks like there's about 30 people there, plus the still unspecified band. Their jazz night on Monday appears to be have been completely bereft of punters.
> 
> If only they bothered to advertise....


Well if they keep breaching their licence conditions, it won't end well.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Jan 2, 2015)

equationgirl said:


> Well if they keep breaching their licence conditions, it won't end well.


How many chances do people usually get because it seems that they keep on getting licences granted despite breaching the conditions.


----------



## Smick (Jan 2, 2015)

I'd imagine there weren't the people on duty on NYE to check the smaller venues.


----------



## se5 (Jan 2, 2015)

editor said:


> I just took a look. It looks like there's about 30 people there, plus the still unspecified band.



NYE crowd seems to be entirely made up of men, many with beards but no hats


----------



## ddraig (Jan 3, 2015)

none?


----------



## Mr Retro (Jan 3, 2015)

Jesus Christ give it a rest


----------



## ddraig (Jan 3, 2015)

about hats?


----------



## killer b (Jan 3, 2015)

the breathless nimbyism about licensing conditions perhaps?


----------



## editor (Jan 3, 2015)

killer b said:


> the breathless nimbyism about licensing conditions perhaps?


"Breathless" NIMBYism?


----------



## killer b (Jan 3, 2015)

that's how it reads, even if they aren't physically in your back yard. It's laughable. Like you wouldn't happily drink in a lock in or play music after hours.


----------



## editor (Jan 3, 2015)

killer b said:


> that's how it reads, even if they aren't physically in your back yard. It's laughable. Like you wouldn't happily drink in a lock in or play music after hours.


Most of the people on this thread haven't been making that point _at all_. And I've still no idea what the "breathless" bit is supposed to mean.


----------



## killer b (Jan 3, 2015)

The mildly hysterical tones many of the posts seem to be typed in. Including your latest - _italics_ and everything.

Who cares if most of the people on the thread haven't been making that point? Some have, which are the posts I've just commented on.

It still looks like a really shit bar, mind.


----------



## T & P (Jan 3, 2015)

This forum is a little bit obsessed with this enterprise, it has got to be said. Even the likes of Champagne and Fromage have ended up getting an easy ride by comparison.


----------



## editor (Jan 3, 2015)

killer b said:


> The mildly hysterical tones many of the posts seem to be typed in. Including your latest - _italics_ and everything.


"Mildly hysterical," "breathless NIMYism" and now you're getting worked up over two words in italics?

To be honest, you appear to be the one losing it here!


----------



## killer b (Jan 3, 2015)

Yes, I'm mashing the keyboard in self righteous indignation. You got me.


----------



## editor (Jan 3, 2015)

OMG! _Italics!_


----------



## killer b (Jan 3, 2015)

You're so cute.


----------



## Tricky Skills (Jan 3, 2015)

The general point is that the Lambeth Noise Team has described the current licence holders as not being "responsible." The Officers tried to scale back the current licence as it was allegedly being breached at regular intervals.

The Licensing Committee somehow interpreted this as good reason to maintain the current licence and grant a 4am extension for NYE.

Not NIMBYism, just perplexity as to how a bar can still be allowed to trade when it has been reported that the licence is continually being breached.

If this was to happen to any boozer down CHL then I'm sure similar questions would be asked.


----------



## Smick (Jan 3, 2015)

I have to admit, I think that so much of licencing is complete bollocks. I love a lock-in and I can't see why it's ok for me to drink beer in my living room at 5am but not buy it at that time. Don't get me started on the four cans rule either.

However, if someone living near to a licenced premises is being disturbed late at night by that premises or its customers as they leave, then I have a major issue with that and support some form of action being taken, or a licence not being granted.

If OTC are selling whisky at 4am, have 50 people in there and the music is on but can't be heard, then leave them to it IMO.

But if they are banging out music which neighbours can hear at 4am, then their punters take a pish in local residents' doorways, then something needs done.


----------



## Lizzy Mac (Apr 29, 2015)

According to a new post on the Herne Hill forum OTC is "being harrassed by local council".
I'm just saying.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Apr 29, 2015)

Cos of the hats?


----------



## sleaterkinney (Apr 29, 2015)

Only £14,985 to go!

http://www.gofundme.com/t6acbh9


----------



## Belushi (Apr 29, 2015)

jesus


----------



## editor (Apr 29, 2015)

Some fairly heavy accusations being thrown around here. I can't imagine that's going to help their cause. 



> But even in light of the lovely, no-nonsense crowd we attract, Lambeth Council has consistently victimised and harassed us.  Now they have have taken it to an extreme.  We were issued a noise abatement notice last year before we even had our license and we have just found out that we have been summoned on 7 additional offenses, all of which are blatant lies and part of a bigger plan that we believe has been a systematic policy of attempting to strip us of our hard won license and shut down a bar that employs many people and a venue that has come to be associated with top notch live music.


----------



## T & P (Apr 29, 2015)

I've no idea how true or otherwise the complaints are, but it has always seemed to me resident complaints are given unfair weight by councils when considering such matters, in particular if there are very few or even just one complaint.

Someone mentioned on another thread that the SW4 festival has been subject to the stringent noise limits because of the complaints and intransigence of a single individual, year after year. If that is true, it is completely unfair and open to abuse.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Apr 29, 2015)

bye bye


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Apr 29, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Cos of the hats?


I wish it were possible to double or treble "like" a post! 

I still can't help but piss myself at the notion of locally sourced German chedder


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Apr 29, 2015)

They have Tesco and Sainsbury....so the options are endless.


----------



## se5 (Apr 29, 2015)

editor said:


> Some fairly heavy accusations being thrown around here. I can't imagine that's going to help their cause.



They come across like a stroppy teenager - blaming everyone and everything else for their troubles

Whilst searching for information on another licensing application recently I came across the minutes from a recent meeting of the licensing sub committee.  The impression I get from reading the minutes is that Off the Cuff Bar  wont comply with/ dont seem to understand the terms of their licence, in particular the temporary entertainment notice licences which they need to open outside of the regular hours  -I think thats whats TENs are for?

See the minutes of the meeting  of 17 March 2015 - http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/documents/s73089/Minutes for 17 March 2015.pdf (page 12 on)

I'm sure Off the Cuff would dispute all this but Lambeth allege in the minutes that a visit by a licensing officer found that they had ignored closing times - she found them to be open on 14 March at 3am when they didnt have a TEN licence, found that they had placed duct tape over or disabled the noise limiter and employed not SIA registered staff. 

This fact-finding trip / harassment (whatever you want to call it) was in addition to the seven offences she mentions on the site above. I would have thought that if you know that you are risk of being investigated further you would ensure you are fully compliant with all the licence requirements


----------



## Tricky Skills (Apr 29, 2015)

I still can't quite work out what happened here: The Lambeth Officers claimed that the owners "weren't responsible" and tried to reduce the licence. The Planning Committee meanwhile saw this as a signal to increase the hours on NYE


----------



## Greebo (Apr 29, 2015)

Tricky Skills said:


> I still can't quite work out what happened here: The Lambeth Officers claimed that the owners "weren't responsible" and tried to reduce the licence. The Planning Committee meanwhile saw this as a signal to increase the hours on NYE


Completely and utterly Lambeth.


----------



## pesh (Apr 30, 2015)

a few friends had a joint birthday party there 2 or 3 weeks ago, i've never been in a venue that was so clearly terrified of losing its license… PA system limited to the point of it being inaudible halfway down the arch never mind outside it, DJs looking utterly bemused as to why the sound dropped out every time the bass kicked in. security begging the people outside to basically whisper and hide round the corner from the entrance. i just felt sorry for them really. or as sorry as you can feel for someone charging you £4.50 for a bottle of beer.


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2015)

pesh said:


> a few friends had a joint birthday party there 2 or 3 weeks ago, i've never been in a venue that was so clearly terrified of losing its license… PA system limited to the point of it being inaudible halfway down the arch never mind outside it, DJs looking utterly bemused as to why the sound dropped out every time the bass kicked in. security begging the people outside to basically whisper and hide round the corner from the entrance. i just felt sorry for them really. or as sorry as you can feel for someone charging you £4.50 for a bottle of beer.


The previous owners of the Alma in  Crystal Palace  (a proper pub, no entry fee or membership and normal beer prices) had a similar thing after one person kept complaining. They had to fit a sound limiter that was set so low someone coughing would probably have set it off.   I DJd one of the last nights there and the sound of the crowd chatting drowned out the music. It was no fun.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Apr 30, 2015)

pesh said:


> a few friends had a joint birthday party there 2 or 3 weeks ago, i've never been in a venue that was so clearly terrified of losing its license… PA system limited to the point of it being inaudible halfway down the arch never mind outside it, DJs looking utterly bemused as to why the sound dropped out every time the bass kicked in. security begging the people outside to basically whisper and hide round the corner from the entrance. i just felt sorry for them really. or as sorry as you can feel for someone charging you £4.50 for a bottle of beer.


I wouldn't feel sorry for them if I were you. They are in this position as they felt they could do whatever they liked so fuck 'em the self-entitled twats.


----------



## Mr Retro (Apr 30, 2015)

Mrs Miggins said:


> I wouldn't feel sorry for them if I were you. They are in this position as they felt they could do whatever they liked so fuck 'em the self-entitled twats.


Did they really feel they could do whatever they wanted? And did they indeed do whatever they wanted to put themselves in this position?


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Did they really feel they could do whatever they wanted? And did they indeed do whatever they wanted to put themselves in this position?


I think it's fair to say that their attitude, exclusive, members-only business model and ability to alienate some people may impact negatively on their crowdfunding ability.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Apr 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Did they really feel they could do whatever they wanted? And did they indeed do whatever they wanted to put themselves in this position?


From what I've read on here yes.
Whether that is 100% correct or not, I do not know. I care even less to be honest.


----------



## Mr Retro (Apr 30, 2015)

editor said:


> I think it's fair to say that their attitude, exclusive, members-only business model and ability to alienate some people may impact negatively on their crowdfunding ability.


Fair point but it's not answering the question I asked.


----------



## Mr Retro (Apr 30, 2015)

Mrs Miggins said:


> From what I've read on here yes.
> Whether that is 100% correct or not, I do not know. I care even less to be honest.


So you have no way to back up what you said then. Fair enough, I was just wondering.


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Fair point but it's not answering the question I asked.


Well, Lambeth's statement would appear to suggest that they've had something of a cavalier attitude towards them.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Apr 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> So you have no way to back up what you said then. Fair enough, I was just wondering.


I don't really care and I'm not about to get into a debate about it. This has been going on a long time. I've read this thread and commented on it since it went up. I'm not going to trawl through looking for evidence to satisfy you but my overwhelming impression is that yes, they have done whatever they liked regardless of the terms of therms of their licence. They seem to have thought they were above such things. Their whole attitude from the start was all "ooh look at us aren't we cool" and it just creates a bad smell for me really.


----------



## Mr Retro (Apr 30, 2015)

I don't care either and I'm not defending a bar I'll probably never go in. But I think "fuck 'em self entitled twats" is a strong opinion to hold on an impression you have. Playing to the urban crowd a bit too I suppose. 

I wish them well, they seem to be battling on against the tide and I hope they come through


----------



## teuchter (Apr 30, 2015)

If there's one thing we can rely on, it's that this thread presents an objective and complete summary of the situation as it developed.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (Apr 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> I don't care either and I'm not defending a bar I'll probably never go in. But I think "fuck 'em self entitled twats" is a strong opinion to hold on an impression you have. Playing to the urban crowd a bit too I suppose.


Maybe I am just a bit grumpy today


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2015)

teuchter said:


> If there's one thing we can rely on, it's that this thread presents an objective and complete summary of the situation as it developed.


Much the same as you can always be relied upon to breeze in with another of your sneery, patronising comments that adds absolutely nothing of substance to be the debate. In an ever-changing world full of uncertainty, I thank you for being so reassuringly predictable.


----------



## wtfftw (Apr 30, 2015)

When did you two start interacting with each other again?


----------



## teuchter (Apr 30, 2015)

Just now, apparently, with editor choosing to get things started with the customary personal attack.


----------



## editor (Apr 30, 2015)

teuchter said:


> Just now, apparently, with editor choosing to get things started with the customary personal attack.


I assumed I was included in your customary, all-purpose ad hominem attack so responded, but I shall happily put you right back on ignore. Bye!


----------



## aussw9 (Apr 30, 2015)

Most other venues = lambeth are cunts

OTC = Being dicks towards lambeth, had it coming


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Apr 30, 2015)

£25 in two days.... I think they might just make their target in 3 and bit years time.


----------



## ViolentPanda (Apr 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Did they really feel they could do whatever they wanted? And did they indeed do whatever they wanted to put themselves in this position?



Read through the thread, including the contributions from one of OTC's owners. You'll end up with the impression that they have rather brought things on themselves. 
Operating without a licence, for example...well, I'm sure that a high percentage of older residents will recall what often happened to shebeens that were raided, including the booze all being tipped down the nearest drain!
Operating outside licenced hours, too - pubs have lost their licences for *single* offences when the council has been feeling particularly moody.

OTC (by their own admission) opened the bar with the attitude that they were (to paraphrase) doing the area a favour, creating employment and adding a touch of class. They thought this gave them licence to bend the rules. It didn't.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Apr 30, 2015)

aussw9 said:


> OTC = Being dicks towards lambeth



Just being dicks really.


----------



## DietCokeGirl (Apr 30, 2015)

Reading those minutes, my mind boggles - arrogence, or plain old incompetence? Have they ever run a bar before? Either way, they are surely fucked.


----------



## trashpony (Apr 30, 2015)

Mr Retro said:


> Did they really feel they could do whatever they wanted? And did they indeed do whatever they wanted to put themselves in this position?


If you read the minutes of the licensing committee meeting that se5 has linked to, then yes. 

My 8 year old has more business sense than these idiots


----------



## Supine (Apr 30, 2015)

Mrs Miggins said:


> Maybe I am just a bit grumpy today



Nah, you've been grumpy on this thread for months


----------



## deadringer (Apr 30, 2015)

Licensing conditions must be strictly adhered to - Unless your smuggling in booze at The Hamlet


----------



## prunus (Apr 30, 2015)

This thread just KEEPS on giving


----------



## shifting gears (Apr 30, 2015)

teuchter said:


> If there's one thing we can rely on, it's that this thread presents an objective and complete summary of the situation as it developed.



If only we could rely on you taking another extended sabbatical from urban - it's been lovely without your endless tedious bell-whiffery round the boards.


----------



## boohoo (Apr 30, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> If only we could rely on you taking another extended sabbatical from urban - it's been lovely without your endless tedious bell-whiffery round the boards.



Why you so rude. Cos that helps things doesn't it.


----------



## shifting gears (Apr 30, 2015)

I don't have to justify myself to you - but it's cos he's a tedious bore and a wind up merchant, and frankly I wish he'd fuck off for good.

Happy to clarify.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2015)

I visited OTC tonight. The bouncers were fantastically friendly.


----------



## snowy_again (May 1, 2015)

Ahem 'concierge' as only one was previously a licensed doorman. 

So did I, mostly cos the new place over the road was heaving on its opening night - were you at the Milkwood? Saw a few Albert / Railway faces there.


----------



## boohoo (May 1, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> I don't have to justify myself to you - but it's cos he's a tedious bore and a wind up merchant, and frankly I wish he'd fuck off for good.
> 
> Happy to clarify.



Why be so rude though. And yes I know you don't have to justify to me but this is a 'community' and all this pent up aggression makes the boards unpleasant.

Lots of people on here are tedious bores about so many different things - from the important to the trivial (myself included). - so let's ignore that one.

Teuchter does like to press people's button but not all the time - How do you deal with this in real life? Do you yell at someone or do you maybe ask them not to do it? Have you asked them why they do it? Or do you put them on ignore in your life? What's the grown up approach?

And finally - a lot of beef goes across thread so you just might miss half of the stuff being said and  never quite get what is going on. Don't presume because you've seen something on the main boards that other stuff doesn't go on IRL that shapes the comments that people make in their posts.

Now can I ruffle your hair and say there there?


----------



## Supine (May 1, 2015)

editor said:


> I visited OTC tonight. The bouncers were fantastically friendly.



Did you buy any furniture?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 1, 2015)

se5 said:


> See the minutes of the meeting  of 17 March 2015 - http://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/documents/s73089/Minutes for 17 March 2015.pdf (page 12 on)


 
I wonder who this intimidating landlord is and what the full story is there?


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 1, 2015)

"_Hard  work  was  put  into  the  events,  guests representatives from The Guardian and BBC6_."   Oh well in that case, they should obviously be allowed to go on until 3am with no licence in place.

The stuff about the noise limiter is unbelievable as well. As is him bringing up the fact he is tired and is a single parent. I'm really at a loss to understand what those 2 facts have to do with anything.

What I also find interesting is that in those minutes, there are allegations of multiple noise complaints, fights, harrassment and weed smoking but on this http://www.gofundme.com/t6acbh9  they claim that none of these things have happened (except for the woman who owns the knitting shop complaining about the noise). Which party is the one telling the lies here?


----------



## trashpony (May 1, 2015)

I shouldn't think it's the licensing officer


----------



## pesh (May 1, 2015)

the intimidating landlord with the fighting, harassment and weed smoking problem is running the Serenity Wine Bar not OTC


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 1, 2015)

pesh said:


> the intimidating landlord with the fighting, harassment and weed smoking problem is running the Serenity Wine Bar not OTC


Ah! My mistake there then.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 1, 2015)

Mrs Miggins said:


> What I also find interesting is that in those minutes, there are allegations of multiple noise complaints, fights, harrassment and weed smoking but on this http://www.gofundme.com/t6acbh9  they claim that none of these things have happened (except for the woman who owns the knitting shop complaining about the noise). Which party is the one telling the lies here?


 
I've got the wrong end of the stick here so my comment is rubbish. Please disregard!


----------



## editor (May 1, 2015)

snowy_again said:


> Ahem 'concierge' as only one was previously a licensed doorman.
> 
> So did I, mostly cos the new place over the road was heaving on its opening night - were you at the Milkwood? Saw a few Albert / Railway faces there.


Yes I was. And apparently I was one of about a hundred people who _hilariously _quipped that the downstairs room looked like a porn cinema. The Milkwood looks alright - they've made good use of the space.

What did you think of OTC? It was better than I thought but fairly quiet and we gave up trying to get served.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2015)

Supine said:


> Did you buy any furniture?


The amount of random furniture cluttering up the place looked a bit silly, to be honest.


----------



## Cowley (May 1, 2015)

is this place still open? fair play to her..


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 1, 2015)

shifting gears said:


> If only we could rely on you taking another extended sabbatical from urban - it's been lovely without your endless tedious bell-whiffery round the boards.



The truth is that they have all dribbled back recently, that's just the craven cheerleader the other cowards rally behind.
There have been a lot of references to "name calling" recently and comments like "we can't have a "nuanced" discussion without people shouting theirs mouths off" from self identifying gentrifiers who are part of that craven collective collaborating in the background, continuing to shit stir; yet somehow they convince others they are the victims.

ETA - spelling error.


----------



## SpamMisery (May 1, 2015)

Craven? Don't they make milk?


----------



## SpamMisery (May 1, 2015)

Oh no wait, that's cravendale. The ones with the mental adverts


----------



## boohoo (May 1, 2015)

What is a "self identifying gentrifier"? What is a "craven collective"?

Why do we need to divide lines between people? Is it better that we hate the little people, than those in power? Is it because we are so powerless that if we name someone as the target and fight them  so we can feel powerful rather than those we definitely know are affecting us?


----------



## editor (May 1, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Is it because we are so powerless that if we name someone as the target and fight them  so we can feel powerful rather than those we definitely know are affecting us?


Well, that's certainly a situation I'm more than familiar with.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2015)

Anyhow, here's the scene at OTC last night. There was a lot more furniture than people.


----------



## brixtonblade (May 1, 2015)

Must have taken you ages to photshop the hats out.

It doesnt look very inviting.  

What was the new place across the road like?  Milkwood?


----------



## editor (May 1, 2015)

brixtonblade said:


> Must have taken you ages to photshop the hats out.
> 
> It doesnt look very inviting.
> 
> What was the new place across the road like?  Milkwood?


It was nicely done up inside, with an interesting little cinema in the basement. They've clearly made a lot of effort and aren't going for the quick buck.


----------



## Dan U (May 1, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> The truth is that they have all dribbled back recently, that's just the craven cheerleader the other cowards rally behind.
> There have been a lot of references to "name calling" recently and comments like "we can't have a "nuanced" discussion without people shouting theirs mouths off" from self identifying gentrifiers who are part of that craven collective collaborating in the background, continuing to shit stir; yet somehow they convince others they are the victims.
> 
> ETA - spelling error.


You used to be mates with a lot of these people you now cunt off iirc. Played sport with them and the like. 

Get off your bloody high horse.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 1, 2015)

Dan U said:


> You used to be mates with a lot of these people you now cunt off iirc. Played sport with them and the like.
> 
> Get off your bloody high horse.



Not mates, they were on a recruitment drive and I told them to fuck off.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2015)

Can I please kindly request that all this beef that's just arrived on the table be packed up and put back in the freezer?
Besides I'm veggie.


----------



## Dan U (May 1, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Not mates, they were on a recruitment drive and I told them to fuck off.


Righto.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2015)

*opens freezer door impatiently.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 1, 2015)

boohoo said:


> What is a "self identifying gentrifier"? What is a "craven collective"?
> 
> Why do we need to divide lines between people? Is it better that we hate the little people, than those in power? Is it because we are so powerless that if we name someone as the target and fight them  so we can feel powerful rather than those we definitely know are affecting us?



You keep mentioning power, but seem to be missing the fact that power relations are always asymmetric, so you'll always have (as has happened on Urban) people who feel their interests are threatened, and who react accordingly.
Guess which side (because despite all the "can't we all live together" rhetoric in the world, there are *always* sides) has the most power to defend their interests? A clue: It's not the likes of Dexter, but the likes of the gentrifying _rentier_ arse he's been too considerate to name - Rushy.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 1, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> Craven? Don't they make milk?



No, Craven's a hunter in "The Amazing Spider Man".


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 1, 2015)

editor said:


> *opens freezer door impatiently.



See, that's vegetarianism for you! TERRIBLE for shortening your temper, it is!


----------



## Spymaster (May 1, 2015)

editor said:


> View attachment 70985



I love that chair in centre frame. Any idea how much?


----------



## boohoo (May 1, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> You keep mentioning power, but seem to be missing the fact that power relations are always asymmetric, so you'll always have (as has happened on Urban) people who feel their interests are threatened, and who react accordingly.
> 
> Guess which side (because despite all the "can't we all live together" rhetoric in the world, there are *always* sides) has the most power to defend their interests? A clue: It's not the likes of Dexter, but the likes of the gentrifying _rentier_ arse he's been too considerate to name - Rushy.



Many people on urban have more power than me - I still engage with them - including you - you are a bloke -you have more power. (Did you know Labour have only been sending election crap to my partner! )

Maybe we should just go through each person and sort out their power.

Ok me first: I'm white. I'm female. I'm a mum. I don't own a home. I am a temp. Let me know what line you would like to put me on.

Ok - whose next? This is gonna be fun!


----------



## leanderman (May 1, 2015)

editor said:


> It was nicely done up inside, with an interesting little cinema in the basement. They've clearly made a lot of effort and aren't going for the quick buck.
> 
> View attachment 70986



Is there a website or any info about Milkwood? I can't find any.


----------



## editor (May 1, 2015)

Spymaster said:


> I love that chair in centre frame. Any idea how much?


How the fuck should I know, or care? If you like it so much, put in your best hat and get down there and ask.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 1, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Many people on urban have more power than me - I still engage with them - including you - you are a bloke -you have more power. (Did you know Labour have only been sending election crap to my partner! )
> 
> Maybe we should just go through each person and sort out their power.
> 
> ...



It's a bit more complex than that, as I'm sure you're aware.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 1, 2015)

editor said:


> How the fuck should I know, or care? If you like it so much, put in your best hat and get down there and ask.



See? Vegetarianism = short temper!


----------



## Spymaster (May 1, 2015)

editor said:


> How the fuck should I know, or care?



I just thought that given your obsession with this gaff, and your fondness of me; that you might be able to wangle me a result. No need to get shirty.



> put in [sic] your best *hat*



Were you in the Parachute Regiment, per chance?

You do look like the type, tbf.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 1, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Many people on urban have more power than me - I still engage with them - including you - you are a bloke -you have more power. (Did you know Labour have only been sending election crap to my partner! )
> 
> Maybe we should just go through each person and sort out their power.
> 
> ...


thats a different thread all together...


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 1, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's a bit more complex than that, as I'm sure you're aware.



You put that nicely and it saves me from having to go additional for the moment at least.


----------



## boohoo (May 1, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> It's a bit more complex than that, as I'm sure you're aware.



Of course.  In fact it's incredibly complex. Upbringing, parents upbringing, which part of the country we grow up in.

I realised that I have a certain privilege of having an audience when I was writing the little Lambeth blog (and to some extent with the mural society). It was nice to talk about supporting local business  (this was at the time when there was the ice rink who-ha). I would have liked to have had the time to use the blog to write about libraries (Lambeth consultation) but I've been too busy with work and mural stuff.

I think future history will have a lot to say about social media, etc.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 1, 2015)

boohoo said:


> *What is a "self identifying gentrifier"? What is a "craven collective"?*
> 
> Why do we need to divide lines between people? Is it better that we hate the little people, than those in power? Is it because we are so powerless that if we name someone as the target and fight them  so we can feel powerful rather than those we definitely know are affecting us?



That's what you do when you exclude people you don't like, you don't reply to them directly.
You quote their words but you don't converse with them. I understand that but you are asking for something different from people you have a problem with.
That won't work.


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 1, 2015)

Don't be mean to boohoo. She's one one of the good ones.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 1, 2015)

Ok, let's all do passive aggression.


----------



## T & P (May 1, 2015)




----------



## Thimble Queen (May 1, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> Ok, let's all do passive aggression.



Me?


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 1, 2015)




----------



## Lizzy Mac (May 2, 2015)

The other packed place http://www.milkwoodhernehill.co.uk.


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 2, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


>



So you are doing the thing about not quoting people that you were getting cross about above? Stop it. We can be nice friends.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 2, 2015)

It's not as simple as that.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 2, 2015)

ViolentPanda said:


> You keep mentioning power, but seem to be missing the fact that power relations are always asymmetric, so you'll always have (as has happened on Urban) people who feel their interests are threatened, and who react accordingly.
> Guess which side (because despite all the "can't we all live together" rhetoric in the world, there are *always* sides) has the most power to defend their interests? A clue: It's not the likes of Dexter, but the likes of the gentrifying _rentier_ arse he's been too considerate to name - Rushy.



I never named any of them. (Someone else did and I applaud them for it because they had the courage to do so and they got the names right.)
I found the courage to speak out late in the day when others had dominated.
The thread was correctly closed, it has been "parked" for other reasons.
I would like to talk about all of this openly but other Board members have made that impossible by their subsequent actions.


----------



## Thimble Queen (May 2, 2015)

Stop being mean tho. Didn't do anything wrong.


----------



## editor (May 2, 2015)

Lizzy Mac said:


> The other packed place http://www.milkwoodhernehill.co.uk.


So bottles are a £1 cheaper than OTC, not that I imagine I'll be a regular at either place.


----------



## Dexter Deadwood (May 2, 2015)

I understand that they don't want me to spend any money in there.

ETA - It was a grammatical error.


----------



## elmpp (May 2, 2015)

Dexter Deadwood said:


> I understand that they don't want me to spend any money in there.
> 
> ETA - It was a grammatical error.


Drunken fool


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 2, 2015)

poptyping said:


> Don't be mean to boohoo. She's one one of the good ones.



Refereeing an Urban thread is likely to result in injury.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 2, 2015)

boohoo said:


> Of course.  In fact it's incredibly complex. Upbringing, parents upbringing, which part of the country we grow up in.



It's also important whether it's part of our _habitus_ to intentionally *use* or assert the power we have over others, positively or negatively. A condescending do-gooder, for example, is more socially harmful than someone who just gets on with doing good.



> I realised that I have a certain privilege of having an audience when I was writing the little Lambeth blog (and to some extent with the mural society). It was nice to talk about supporting local business  (this was at the time when there was the ice rink who-ha). I would have liked to have had the time to use the blog to write about libraries (Lambeth consultation) but I've been too busy with work and mural stuff.



How and why power is used is important. Publicising fact and anecdote about local history on a *contestable format *is* an assertion of power, but importantly, *for* people, not *against* people.

*The inherent power-relationship between writer and reader is somewhat moderated by the fact of most blogs allowing comments - giving some power to the reader to offer a different perspective or analysis.



> I think future history will have a lot to say about social media, etc.


And quite likely not all of it good. If you go back to social science in the nineties and early noughties, there's loads of Utopianism around the immediacy of access to knowledge, with some theorists predicting entire "knowledge economies" emerging from the advent of broad ownership of information and communications technology (thank you, prof. Castells!), and slightly saner voices predicting that it'd lead to individuals being able to assert facets of their identities to a previously-unknown degree.
Ongoing campaign-like cyber-bullying didn't feature in most predictions, but it's probably the most *publicised* aspect of social media, and probably the aspect that will be most remembered half a century from now. It's an example of deciding to use power irresponsibly _par excellence, _too_._


----------



## Maharani (May 4, 2015)

Lizzy Mac said:


> The other packed place http://www.milkwoodhernehill.co.uk.


I went to Milkwood early on Friday for a cuppa. It was really well decked out. Didn't go to the back where the restaurant is but saw food coming out and looked good. 

I saw the Railway gents (S and O) and gave my congrats.  They looked happy and so they should. 

Think their licence runs until 12am.


----------



## Belushi (May 21, 2015)

Mrs Miggins said:


> http://www.gofundme.com/t6acbh9



I see they've raised a grand total of £25 of the 15K they're requesting for their legal battle


----------



## Smick (May 21, 2015)

I don't understand the incentive in giving them money. All they are doing is selling drink, at a premium, to make money for themselves.


----------



## shifting gears (May 21, 2015)

Smick said:


> I don't understand the incentive in giving them money. All they are doing is selling drink, at a premium, to make money for themselves.



Oh but they've been soooo hard done by and put sooooo much into the community that the least the pleb...... Errr customers can do is subsidise their business that they've spent soooooo long building up with suuuuuuch hard work


----------



## Rushy (May 21, 2015)

I really want to stick up for them because they are giving it a good go. But they don't half make it hard sometimes .


----------



## editor (May 21, 2015)

I normally want to support any local bar trying to make a go of it. But this lot really are difficult to love.


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 21, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I see they've raised a grand total of £25 of the 15K they're requesting for their legal battle


Oh where are their behatted locally sourced cheese munching chair obsessed buddies now eh?


----------



## elmpp (May 21, 2015)

editor said:


> I normally want to support any local bar trying to make a go of it. But this lot really are difficult to love.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 22, 2015)

Rushy said:


> I really want to stick up for them because they are giving it a good go.



You're being polite...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 22, 2015)

Belushi said:


> I see they've raised a grand total of £25 of the 15K they're requesting for their legal battle



You couldn't even buy a nostril of charlie for that...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 22, 2015)

They could do a benefit gig...

Chuck Beret could headline...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 22, 2015)

Topper Headon could get involved


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 22, 2015)

No place in the line for Men Without Hats


----------



## Mrs Miggins (May 22, 2015)

Good call!!


----------



## wurlycurly (May 23, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> They could do a benefit gig...
> 
> Chuck Beret could headline...



Benefit gig? Is that when you book bands, pay them nothing and then sell expensive beer to the band members and their mates in an otherwise empty bar?


----------



## editor (May 23, 2015)

I could be wrong but I suspect that they're not going to make their target.


----------



## sleaterkinney (Nov 4, 2015)

They're hiring, no mention of hats.


----------



## Smick (Nov 4, 2015)

Fair play to them for keeping it going, in spite of all the adversity. I guess the longer somewhere remains open, the less likely it is to fold.


----------



## Belushi (Nov 4, 2015)

I see their gofundme page is no longer up, wonder if they ever raised more than £25.


----------



## doddles (Nov 4, 2015)

Strange that they don't mention cheese or hats in their job ad.


----------



## editor (Nov 4, 2015)

doddles said:


> Strange that they don't mention cheese or hats in their job ad.


I think they have changed their direction a bit. Good luck to them if they have. Their early stubbornness could have been their downfall, but if they've been listening to what their customers want and become more flexible, then I wish them the best.


----------



## Smick (Nov 4, 2015)

Their email address is Thelivemusicbar whereas I think that wood was previously their selling point. They must have had a change in focus.


----------



## MrSki (Nov 9, 2015)

Expanding!


----------



## Orang Utan (Nov 9, 2015)

£40


----------



## MrSki (Nov 9, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> £40


You do get a free glass of punch!


----------



## friendofdorothy (Nov 9, 2015)

Orang Utan said:


> £40


ouch! its not for me.


----------



## editor (Nov 9, 2015)

A £40 charge feels like an expensive punch in the face to me.

That's got to be a contender for the most expensive non-club night in the area on NYE.


----------



## brixtonblade (Nov 9, 2015)

Got to keep the hatless proles out somehow


----------



## Maharani (Nov 9, 2015)

£40 for what??? A glass of punch. Someone will get punched at that cost. It's not even that big in there, there's a tiny bar and no extra rooms. At least there should be more ents on for that price?


----------



## MrSki (Nov 9, 2015)

Maharani said:


> £40 for what??? A glass of punch. Someone will get punched at that cost. It's not even that big in there, there's a tiny bar and no extra rooms. At least there should be more ents on for that price?


It is the launch party for the second arch so probably twice the size of now. It is probably very good locally sourced punch though.


----------



## Maharani (Nov 10, 2015)

MrSki said:


> It is the launch party for the second arch so probably twice the size of now. It is probably very good locally sourced punch though.


Ah, too true.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 10, 2015)

cunt's tea party.


----------



## Fingers (Nov 17, 2015)

OTC appear to have won Time Out's London's Best Bar award 

EDIT: it was Best Bar in Herne Hill

Time Out Love London Awards


----------



## editor (Nov 17, 2015)

Fingers said:


> OTC appear to have won Time Out's London's Best Bar award
> 
> EDIT: it was Best Bar in Herne Hill
> 
> Time Out Love London Awards


I don't want to pour scorn on their achievement, but it's worth noting that only two out of the five categories for Herne Hill managed to reach enough nominations, which would suggest that the awards were rather under-subscribed when it came to votes.

 

Another - even smaller and less well - place I know won one of these awards and apparently it's one of those things where you have to keep shelling out for things.


----------



## brixtonblade (Nov 17, 2015)

*obligatory hat joke *


----------



## twistedAM (Nov 18, 2015)

editor said:


> Another - even smaller and less well - place I know won one of these awards and apparently it's one of those things where you have to keep shelling out for things.



To be fair to Time Out, I never saw any strings attached to their various competitions. We came third in one of their citywide things and were never even asked if we wanted to place an advert. Was all free promo.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2015)

twistedAM said:


> To be fair to Time Out, I never saw any strings attached to their various competitions. We came third in one of their citywide things and were never even asked if we wanted to place an advert. Was all free promo.


How long ago was that? You've certainly got to pay to attend for the 'awards ceremony'.


----------



## twistedAM (Nov 18, 2015)

editor said:


> How long ago was that? You've certainly got to pay to attend for the 'awards ceremony'.


2013 but yeah it was a different competition and in conjunction with the Mayor's music office (who, before you start, do some half-decent work). 
Didn't know they were charging to go to the Awards bash for this one.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2015)

twistedAM said:


> 2013 but yeah it was a different competition and in conjunction with the Mayor's music office (who, before you start, do some half-decent work).
> Didn't know they were charging to go to the Awards bash for this one.


I've 'won' quite a few awards in various capacities. Urban75 was once declared a 'superbrand' and found itself amongst the likes of Apple, BT, Rolls Royce and more and my place in their annual book was guaranteed - if only I forked out a ton of cash. No, ta.


----------



## twistedAM (Nov 18, 2015)

editor said:


> I've 'won' quite a few awards in various capacities. Urban75 was once declared a 'superbrand' and found itself amongst the likes of Apple, BT, Rolls Royce and more and my place in their annual book was guaranteed - if only I forked out a ton of cash. No, ta.



Yeah and they're rigged too. I actually worked one poll hard a few years ago in NME and we failed to make the final five which was bullshit. We just didn't fit the criteria of the poll I guess. It's all about spreading the name of the brand hosting the awards; we got nominated for Time Out Locals Awards but knew we had no chance up against the Ritzy so I did one post on FB and went about my real work.


----------



## editor (Nov 18, 2015)

twistedAM said:


> Yeah and they're rigged too. I actually worked one poll hard a few years ago in NME and we failed to make the final five which was bullshit. We just didn't fit the criteria of the poll I guess. It's all about spreading the name of the brand hosting the awards; we got nominated for Time Out Locals Awards but knew we had no chance up against the Ritzy so I did one post on FB and went about my real work.


I've been a judge on two fairly major awards and I'm happy to say that I think I put a spanner in the works for at least one of them when I thought an award was being given out as a favour rather than on merit. But I learnt that most of them are all bollocks anyway, and run with the primary aim of promoting the interests of the company sponsoring the awards.


----------



## Supine (Nov 18, 2015)

editor said:


> A £40 charge feels like an expensive punch in the face to me



I will punch you in the face for £30 if you want. Offer open to all posters!


----------



## Supine (Nov 18, 2015)

Ps nobody is allowed to hit me back 

Pps unless they wear a silly hat


----------



## SpamMisery (Nov 18, 2015)

If the offer is open to all posters as you say, I'll pay the £30 for you to punch him in the face.


----------



## Nanker Phelge (Nov 18, 2015)

SpamMisery said:


> If the offer is open to all posters as you say, I'll pay the £30 for you to punch him in the face.



Paying others to do your own dirty work. Tut tut.


----------



## Winot (Nov 18, 2015)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Paying others to do your own dirty work. Tut tut.



Outsourcing.


----------



## salem (Nov 19, 2015)

editor said:


> I've 'won' quite a few awards in various capacities. Urban75 was once declared a 'superbrand' and found itself amongst the likes of Apple, BT, Rolls Royce and more and my place in their annual book was guaranteed - if only I forked out a ton of cash. No, ta.


I've always been suspicious of that superbrands.

Their 2015 list includes the big names like Apple, BT, Rolls Royce. And then you have PolyPipe - www.superbrands.uk.com/polypipe a company which makes plastic pipes.

I'm maybe out of touch on which brands are cool but I'm guessing a few pipes were given in brown paper bags for that.


----------



## editor (Nov 19, 2015)

salem said:


> I've always been suspicious of that superbrands.
> 
> They're 2015 list includes the big names like Apple, BT, Rolls Royce. And then you have PolyPipe - www.superbrands.uk.com/polypipe a company which makes plastic pipes.
> 
> I'm maybe out of touch on which brands are cool but I'm guessing a few pipes were given in brown paper bags for that.


I could have been a.....a..... SUPERBRAND!


----------



## deadringer (Nov 19, 2015)

salem said:


> I've always been suspicious of that superbrands.
> 
> Their 2015 list includes the big names like Apple, BT, Rolls Royce. And then you have PolyPipe - www.superbrands.uk.com/polypipe a company which makes plastic pipes.
> 
> I'm maybe out of touch on which brands are cool but I'm guessing a few pipes were given in brown paper bags for that.



Polypipe? Pah!

JG Speedfit all the way! For this DIY have-a-go plumber anyway....


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

I went along to OTC last night and was very impressed. Local heroes Shame had pulled a big young crowd and were playing in the excellently kitted out back room (£3 entry) with acoustic sets in the front room (free admission). The new arch really is a good new live venue for the venue. The only downside: £5 a pint, FFS, although this time the staff were actually in the mood to serve people.


----------



## Maharani (May 6, 2016)

editor said:


> I went along to OTC last night and was very impressed. Local heroes Shame had pulled a big young crowd and were playing in the excellently kitted out back room (£3 entry) with acoustic sets in the front room (free admission). The new arch really is a good new live venue for the venue. The only downside: £5 a pint, FFS, although this time the staff were actually in the mood to serve people.


Yeah, I've heard the place has turned around and some people I know have made it their regular weekend spot.


----------



## Crispy (May 6, 2016)

Their calendar is absolutely rammed with acts. Hardly an unbooked night. Must be a keen promoter


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

Maharani said:


> Yeah, I've heard the place has turned around and some people I know have made it their regular weekend spot.


Looked and felt completely different to the last time I went. Good for them.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

Crispy said:


> Their calendar is absolutely rammed with acts. Hardly an unbooked night. Must be a keen promoter


I chatted with the owner. And yes, he is _very_ enthusiastic!


----------



## snowy_again (May 6, 2016)

Crispy said:


> Their calendar is absolutely rammed with acts. Hardly an unbooked night. Must be a keen promoter



Ex XFM dj now involved too. 

Shame video launch was fun: shame


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2016)

Maharani said:


> Yeah, I've heard the place has turned around and some people I know have made it their regular weekend spot.


That'll be why this thread's gone all quiet then!


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> Ex XFM dj now involved too.
> 
> Shame video launch was fun: shame


They're a bloody good band. I like the Alabama 3 connection too. Keeping the flame alive!


----------



## teuchter (May 6, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> That'll be why this thread's gone all quiet then!



I wonder what they've actually changed that has led to the angry mob deciding that they are ok after all.

Or was it that the angry mob decided they were wrong.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 6, 2016)

So have they given up on the annual subscription members only policy now? 

I haven't attempted to go here since the early days of this thread when buscador was so offended by their PR that we decided to just not bother with them. Have they changed?


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 6, 2016)

editor said:


> ...The only downside: £5 a pint, FFS, although this time the staff were actually in the mood to serve people.


Presume that is lager, any idea of what else they serve /bar prices? gin?


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> So have they given up on the annual subscription members only policy now?
> 
> I haven't attempted to go here since the early days of this thread when buscador was so offended by their PR that we decided to just not bother with them. Have they changed?


It was like a totally different place. There was no cheese on display and no mention of membership fees. Instead of its early premise as an exclusive, members only affair, this was like a down to earth music bar with no pretensions. Great to have live acts in two rooms too.

I've no idea on the gin prices but I guess it's not going to be cheap.


----------



## organicpanda (May 6, 2016)

editor said:


> It was like a totally different place. There was no cheese on display and no mention of membership fees. Instead of its early premise as an exclusive, members only affair, this was like a down to earth music bar with no pretensions. Great to have live acts in two rooms too.
> 
> I've no idea on the gin prices but I guess it's not going to be cheap.


delete if inappropriate - I heard that they split up and once they had resolved things is about the time it changed its attitude


----------



## aussw9 (May 6, 2016)

Do we know if the members only policy at the beginning was due to licensing? 

To be fair if the place is truly independent £5 a pint in London is probably the going rate for a small business. Not everyone has the purchasing power and ability to run a low margin business like spoons.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 6, 2016)

aussw9 said:


> Do we know if the members only policy at the beginning was due to licensing?
> 
> To be fair if the place is truly independent £5 a pint in London is probably the going rate for a small business. Not everyone has the purchasing power and ability to run a low margin business like spoons.



its about £5+ for a pint of lager in the pubs in this area anyway.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

aussw9 said:


> To be fair if the place is truly independent £5 a pint in London is probably the going rate for a small business.


That's not necessarily true: Kaff offered pints for £3 on some nights. Thankfully, £5 a pint is still very rare indeed at the places I go (or at least there's cheaper options).


----------



## aussw9 (May 6, 2016)

editor said:


> That's not necessarily true: Kaff offered pints for £3 on some nights. Thankfully, £5 a pint is still very rare indeed at the places I go (or at least there's cheaper options).



On some nights*
Was it run as a loss leader?
How can we compare running costs of one business v another?


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 6, 2016)

When I went there they were selling their (very good, to be fair) cask ales for over a fiver as well, which is definitely on the steeper than normal side. Other than that it was very good though.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 6, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> When I went there they were selling their (very good, to be fair) cask ales for over a fiver as well, which is definitely on the steeper than normal side. Other than that it was very good though.


they have cask ale now -that is news.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

aussw9 said:


> On some nights*
> Was it run as a loss leader?
> How can we compare running costs of one business v another?


You said that "£5 a pint in London is probably the going rate for a small business". I gave an example of one that never charged anywhere near that much. I don't think Kaff was really big enough to run 'loss leaders.'


----------



## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 6, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> they have cask ale now -that is news.



Yes or at least they did when I was there. That was a Friday, I'm not sure if they do during the week when it's presumably quieter.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 6, 2016)

editor said:


> You said that "£5 a pint in London is probably the going rate for a small business". I gave an example of one that never charged anywhere near that much. I don't think Kaff was really big enough to run 'loss leaders.'


as Kaff no longer exists, what ever it charged is a moot point.


----------



## teuchter (May 6, 2016)

aussw9 said:


> Do we know if the members only policy at the beginning was due to licensing?



That's what they said, or at least that it allowed them to open later. There was a lot of criticism earlier in the thread about them breaking licensing conditions - I wonder if that continues or whether they came to an arrangement with Lambeth.

At the beginning the pricing was £10 per month membership, which would get you live music Fridays/Saturdays so potentially 8 nights a week (I think).

Now apparently £3 entry to see a band.

The new arrangement is obviously cheaper if you want to go and see some live music less than every weekend, although more expensive if you were in there frequently. I guess they realised that most people don't actually want to go and see stuff all the time.


----------



## snowy_again (May 6, 2016)

It's £ to go into the new arch - you can go into what was the older smelly furniture filled arch and drink for free (or for the price of drinks)

The new arch means that you can't hear music from outside any more, and they've different doors to reduce noise too.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 6, 2016)

Anyway - have they given up insulting potential punters? and most importantly poorer occasional potential customers?

I saw they have a film on, Koyaanisqatsi, as part of the HH film festival http://www.freefilmfestivals.org/whats-on/  that I would like to see - but worry whether or not I would feel welcome.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> as Kaff no longer exists, what ever it charged is a moot point.


Then I'll include the Dogstar, Prince of Wales, Joiners Arms, 414, Effra Social, Hand In Hand, Market House, Lounge, Old Dispensary etc etc as places where I can get a pint under £5.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> It's £ to go into the new arch - you can go into what was the older smelly furniture filled arch and drink for free (or for the price of drinks)
> 
> The new arch means that you can't hear music from outside any more, and they've different doors to reduce noise too.


They've turned that room into a really good sweaty gig. It sounded great.


----------



## Spymaster (May 6, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> ... but worry whether or not I would feel welcome.


Why wouldn't you?


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 6, 2016)

OTC is in Herne Hill - doubt you get much change from £5 for a pint of lager at Commercial, Regent or Florence. 
Last time I had to buy a pint of Peroni for a friend in the Regent I needed a drink to get over the shock.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> OTC is in Herne Hill - doubt you get much change from £5 for a pint of lager at Commercial, Regent or Florence.


At least I'd get _some_ change.


----------



## snowy_again (May 6, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> OTC is in Herne Hill - doubt you get much change from £5 for a pint of lager at Commercial, Regent or Florence.



Or you can go to Canopy and get £1.50 back each time!


----------



## snowy_again (May 6, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> Or you can go to Canopy and get £1.50 back each time!



And also see all the people who drink in the Commercial / Regent / Florence having a sneaky pint or three in there. 

friendofdorothy - there's good new gin at Canopy too.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 6, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Why wouldn't you?


Perhaps you don't you recall the early pages of this thread, about from 2 years ago.



buscador said:


> I must say, it's a curious state of affairs when a new business tries to advertise itself and within a few short pages is proudly stating that various people are not welcome.


 Unfortunately Buskie has the the memory of an elephant and is still feeling insulted and unwelcome. 

I'd be pleased to hear it really has changed and I might give it another try.


----------



## Maharani (May 6, 2016)

Sometimes businesses actually listen to their punters and realise they were making mistakes and have the courage to admit it and make changes for their benefit as well as for their customers. I respect that.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 6, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> And also see all the people who drink in the Commercial / Regent / Florence having a sneaky pint or three in there.
> 
> friendofdorothy - there's good new gin at Canopy too.


mmmm. gin mmmm.


----------



## Ms T (May 6, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> OTC is in Herne Hill - doubt you get much change from £5 for a pint of lager at Commercial, Regent or Florence.
> Last time I had to buy a pint of Peroni for a friend in the Regent I needed a drink to get over the shock.


Me too! £5.20.


----------



## T & P (May 6, 2016)

Peroni is, for some reason (imported I guess, but surely it's not the only case?), well above £5 pretty much everywhere. I was charged £5.65 a few months ago for one.

But IME it is becoming increasingly difficult to find pints being sold for less than £4.50 nowadays whereby neither the pint is glorified piss, or the place a complete dive.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

T & P said:


> Peroni is, for some reason (imported I guess, but surely it's not the only case?), well above £5 pretty much everywhere. I was charged £5.65 a few months ago for one.
> 
> But IME it is becoming increasingly difficult to find pints being sold for less than £4.50 nowadays whereby neither the pint is glorified piss, or the place a complete dive.


What's wrong with complete dives? They're a healthy and affordble counterpoint to all the over priced trendy bars arriving in town, many of which won't sell anything in actual pint glasses.


----------



## T & P (May 6, 2016)

editor said:


> What's wrong with complete dives? They're a healthy and affordble counterpoint to all the over priced trendy bars arriving in town, many of which won't sell anything in actual pint glasses.


If you like a place you probably wouldn't see it as a dive yourself, tbh. But in any case I wouldn't visit a pub I don't like the look or atmosphere of simply because the drinks are cheap. I don't object to their existence at all.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

T & P said:


> If you like a place you probably wouldn't see it as a dive yourself, tbh. But in any case I wouldn't visit a pub I don't like the look or atmosphere of simply because the drinks are cheap. I don't object to their existence at all.


What Brixton pubs would you describe as a 'dive'? The Albert serves Carling for a very affordble £3.30, and even though their toilets are despicable, I wouldn't call the place a dive (not that I've got anything against dive bars). The Beehive is even cheaper and that's reasonably tidy.


----------



## T & P (May 6, 2016)

The Tulse Hill Tavern was the dictionary definition of one- gone but certainly not missed.

But pubs don't need to be a dive for anyone not to like them. Anything from the atmosphere to the decor to the vibe can make you dislike a pub, and drinking in a place you don't like is in fact an extravagant waste of money, for you are expending money on something you're not enjoying anywhere near as much as you should.

And then it's the beer itself. Not many lagers that cost you south of £4.50 are particularly nice, unfortunately.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 6, 2016)

editor said:


> What's wrong with complete dives? They're a healthy and affordble counterpoint to all the over priced trendy bars arriving in town, many of which won't sell anything in actual pint glasses.


 When I first moved to Herne Hill all the pubs were dives and all cheap. Half moon was so filthy I used to take a newpaper to sit on.  But that was long time ago and dives, and cheap pints are few and far between now, usually a bus ride away. 

Anyway regardless of price these bars are my locals.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 6, 2016)

editor said:


> What Brixton pubs would you describe as a 'dive'? The Albert serves Carling for a very affordble £3.30, and even though their toilets are despicable, I wouldn't call the place a dive (not that I've got anything against dive bars). The Beehive is even cheaper and that's reasonably tidy.


Brixton thread >>>>>>>>>>>>

btw Carling? I just call that cooking lager.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> Brixton thread >>>>>>>>>>>>


Almost all - if not all - of the pubs in the Herne Hill area have a lager for well under a £5, so I've lost your point some time ago.

And I like Carling. I can't stand snobbishness about beers, just like I can't stand snobbishness about food.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

T & P said:


> And then it's the beer itself. Not many lagers that cost you south of £4.50 are particularly nice, unfortunately.


Some of the most popular lagers in the UK are "south of £4.50," so clearly not everyone shares your upmarket tastes.


T & P said:


> The Tulse Hill Tavern was the dictionary definition of one- gone but certainly not missed.


And in Brixton (which was the question)?


----------



## T & P (May 6, 2016)

editor said:


> Some of the most popular lagers in the UK are "south of £4.50," so clearly not everyone shares your upmarket tastes.


Popular doesn't mean good any more than McDonalds means high quality beef burgers, of course.

I don't know if you're a lager drinker but the likes of Fosters are seldom appealing to most people who appreciate beer.



> And in Brixton (which was the question)?


 I thought this was a Herne Hill thread? But to answer your question, I don't like The Beehive (and please note that I'm not calling it a dive), so its beer prices are quite irrelevant to me.

In any case, affordability is a relative value, and I'm not sure I want to get dragged into another discussion about it. £3.50 for a pint will still be as unaffordable for many people as £4.75 will be for others.


----------



## editor (May 6, 2016)

T & P said:


> I don't know if you're a lager drinker but the likes of Fosters are seldom appealing to most people who appreciate beer.


Ah, the _connoisseurs_, eh?


----------



## T & P (May 6, 2016)

editor said:


> Ah, the _connoisseurs_, eh?


You've felt perfectly entitled in the past to judge the quality of various food products on these boards, so I don't see why others can't be afforded the same courtesy.


----------



## Maharani (May 6, 2016)

T & P said:


> You've felt perfectly entitled in the past to judge the quality of various food products on these boards, so I don't see why others can't be afforded the same courtesy.


Boring...


----------



## SpamMisery (May 7, 2016)




----------



## T & P (May 7, 2016)

Maharani said:


> Boring...


How is it any different?


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2016)

SpamMisery said:


>



'It's what women and southerners drink'

Nice


----------



## editor (May 7, 2016)

T & P said:


> You've felt perfectly entitled in the past to judge the quality of various food products on these boards, so I don't see why others can't be afforded the same courtesy.


You're dismissing something solely based on_ price_, and that is pure snobbishness. 

But maybe if I'm lucky, one day I'll get to "appreciate" beer like you, eh?


----------



## editor (May 7, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> 'It's what women and southerners drink'
> 
> Nice


Misogynist drivel.


----------



## T & P (May 7, 2016)

editor said:


> You're dismissing something solely based on_ price_, and that is pure snobbishness.
> 
> But maybe if I'm lucky, one day I'll get to "appreciate" beer like you, eh?


No. I'm dismissing Fosters based on the fact that it is utter shit. Price has nothing to do with it. It would still taste like piss if they charged £8 a pint.

Unfortunately beers that tend to be priced cheapest in most pubs are not the best ones. That kind of applies to everything else that's for sale as well. I'm surprised that this would be news to you.


----------



## editor (May 7, 2016)

T & P said:


> No. I'm dismissing Fosters based on the fact that it is utter shit. Price has nothing to do with it.


Foot. Shot. 


T & P said:


> But IME it is becoming increasingly difficult to find pints being sold for less than £4.50 nowadays whereby neither the pint is glorified piss, or the place a complete dive.


----------



## Spymaster (May 7, 2016)

T & P said:


> No. I'm dismissing Fosters based on the fact that it is utter shit.


You have to give credit to whoever makes it though. It can't be easy to take all those ingredients, remove all the flavour, and produce something that just tastes of fizzy nothing.


----------



## T & P (May 7, 2016)

editor said:


> Foot. Shot.


How so?


----------



## T & P (May 7, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> You have to give credit to whoever makes it though. It can't be easy to take all those ingredients, remove all the flavour, and produce something that just tastes of fizzy nothing.


Whenever one tries to wind-up an Australian about the quality of their beer, their answer invariably is 'look mate, we don't drink the stuff- we just export it'


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2016)

editor said:


> Misogynist drivel.



I don't expect anything less from some posters on here...


----------



## Nanker Phelge (May 7, 2016)

T & P said:


> Whenever one tries to wind-up an Australian about the quality of their beer, their answer invariably is 'look mate, we don't drink the stuff- we just export it'



It tastes completely different over there anyway....and it's a bit stronger....or was 15 years ago...but yeah, no one drank it really.


----------



## twistedAM (May 7, 2016)

T & P said:


> No. I'm dismissing Fosters based on the fact that it is utter shit. Price has nothing to do with it. It would still taste like piss if they charged £8 a pint.
> 
> Unfortunately beers that tend to be priced cheapest in most pubs are not the best ones. That kind of applies to everything else that's for sale as well. I'm surprised that this would be news to you.



It really is. I can easily drink Carling and that weak piss that passes off as Carlsberg over here but Fosters is still only my second last favourite lager. That dishonour firmly belongs to Brooklyn Lager. Perfumed shite at a premium price.


----------



## Smick (May 7, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> You have to give credit to whoever makes it though. It can't be easy to take all those ingredients, remove all the flavour, and produce something that just tastes of fizzy nothing.


Budweiser is the one I'm always shocked at. To create a 5% beer which tastes of soda water is quite a feat.


----------



## Spymaster (May 7, 2016)

Smick said:


> Budweiser is the one I'm always shocked at. To create a 5% beer which tastes of soda water is quite a feat.


Yeah, the Yank Bud is incredibly shite. Same with Coors and all their other mass market stuff.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2016)

Spymaster said:


> Yeah, the Yank Bud is incredibly shite. Same with Coors and all their other mass market stuff.



A lot of mass-produced US lagers use rice in with the malt, for a "lighter" taste.
Personally, I like my beers to have a full flavour. As far as I'm concerned, making a beer easier to drink by minimising the flavour is a cunt's trick.


----------



## clandestino (May 7, 2016)

Another vote for cooking lager here. I don't like the strong lagers, so Fosters/Carling etc are what I plump for when I have a beer. I can imagine that if you prefer premium lagers, then Fosters won't taste of anything, but the reason I don't like the stronger lagers is that the taste is too strong. I prefer my lager to be more watery.


----------



## ViolentPanda (May 7, 2016)

clandestino said:


> Another vote for cooking lager here. I don't like the strong lagers, so Fosters/Carling etc are what I plump for when I have a beer. I can imagine that if you prefer premium lagers, then Fosters won't taste of anything, but the reason I don't like the stronger lagers is that the taste is too strong. I prefer my lager to be more watery.



TBF, The UK does have this weird thing where high-alcohol beers always taste heavy and sweeter, which puts people off of them, yet you can find some beautiful smooth-tasting but flavourful lagers in France and Germany, yet are still 5-6% abv.
It's almost like the UK-brewed strong lagers are deliberately horrible-tasting!


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 7, 2016)

editor said:


> Almost all - if not all - of the pubs in the Herne Hill area have a lager for well under a £5, so I've lost your point some time ago.
> 
> And I like Carling. I can't stand snobbishness about beers, just like I can't stand snobbishness about food.



Really is that true? whenever I offer to buy a drink for a lager drinker I get no change (or not much) from a fiver.  I seem to recall the last time I drank in the Commercial even the bitter was over £4.50
As an ale drinker I can't stand lager, as is my prerogative. That doesn't make me a snob - can't I express an opinion? no need to be so touchy.


----------



## teuchter (May 7, 2016)

The increasing availability of decent ale in pubs over the past five years or so has been a bit of a revelation for me...I didn't know how nice beer can actually be. Unfortunately this has coincided with a rapidly declining ability to drink beer without disproportionate negative consequences in the following days.

Anyway, having got more into "proper" beer, the standard pub lagers that I used to drink happily enough before now taste sickly sweet and feeble and whatever the price I don't consider it money well spent. I'd rather have a half of grown-ups' beer than a pint of Carling and I'll measure value for money based on what it tastes like rather than anything else thanks.

Actually what I'd like to see is greater availability of nice ales that are under, say,  4%. Or even the return of small beer although maybe that never tasted of much.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 7, 2016)

teuchter said:


> The increasing availability of decent ale in pubs over the past five years or so has been a bit of a revelation for me...I didn't know how nice beer can actually be. Unfortunately this has coincided with a rapidly declining ability to drink beer without disproportionate negative consequences in the following days.
> 
> Anyway, having got more into "proper" beer, the standard pub lagers that I used to drink happily enough before now taste sickly sweet and feeble and whatever the price I don't consider it money well spent. I'd rather have a half of grown-ups' beer than a pint of Carling and I'll measure value for money based on what it tastes like rather than anything else thanks.
> 
> Actually what I'd like to see is greater availability of nice ales that are under, say,  4%. Or even the return of small beer although maybe that never tasted of much.


mmmm. Proper beer mmm.


----------



## SpamMisery (May 7, 2016)

There are lots of nice sessions ales under 4%. Not sold that widely though


----------



## editor (May 7, 2016)

By the way, you can get a pint of Antic's own ale in the Effra Social for £3.20.


----------



## Smick (May 7, 2016)

Growing up in Belfast, you used to get a choice of Guinness, Harp, Smithwicks or Carlsberg on draught and that was it. All cost the same as each other. I remember around then listening to Talk Sport and it was sponsored by Carling, which I thought sounded sophisticated. I thought Stella was very sophisticated when I first visited London.


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 7, 2016)

Anyway, all this beer talk is rather of topic.

Back to OTC. How late is it open now a days?


----------



## editor (May 7, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> Anyway, all this beer talk is rather of topic.
> 
> Back to OTC. How late is it open now a days?


From their site:
MON-FRI: doors 4pm, Live Music 8pm-11pm
SAT-SUN: doors 11am, Live Music till 11pm


----------



## friendofdorothy (May 7, 2016)

editor said:


> From their site:
> MON-FRI: doors 4pm, Live Music 8pm-11pm
> SAT-SUN: doors 11am, Live Music till 11pm


The quest for an after hours drinking hole must continue then.


----------



## editor (May 7, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> The quest for an after hours drinking hole must continue then.


How late? If you're after a regular pub that;s open past 1am, the Albert goes till 2am Fri/Sat and if you can handle a walk, the *Royal Oak, *10 Clapham High St, SW4 7UT is open till 2.30am every night. I've not tried it yet, but it's now the latest pub-like place in the week. The Hand in Hand up Brixton Hill can go late sometimes too. My weekdays have never recovered since the loads of the Queens Head and the Grosvenor is sorely missed on weekends.

The all nighter’s guide to Brixton – local pubs, clubs and bars that stay open after 3am at the weekend

Where can you get a late drink in Brixton on a Thursday night?


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## friendofdorothy (May 7, 2016)

This is a -bar-in-herne-hill thread - I meant a local *Herne Hill* after hours drinking hole, you know somewhere I can literally crawl home from. Somewhere I can can see the usual suspects that I know, but don't see much since demise of so many of the illegal places around here (yes that was a while ago). There is only the 127 and its usually a bit lively for me and none of the old crowd go there.

Most late places in Brixton have the problem of crowds and the need for ID, even the Hootahob and the Effra social. And I rarely see anyone I know there (- except your good self).

This isn't just about beer, or music even, it's about the company.


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## friendofdorothy (May 7, 2016)

I heard a certain local artist say he might open a bar in one of his arches a while ago. Anyone heard anything more of this?


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## editor (May 7, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> This is a -bar-in-herne-hill thread - I meant a local *Herne Hill* after hours drinking hole, you know somewhere I can literally crawl home from.


I think you've got no chance on that, sadly. Even in Brixton there's no real late after hours pubs left in the week - that's why I'll probably end up in that boozer in bloody Clapham soon, and that will be awful.


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## teuchter (May 8, 2016)

London is rubbish for late night stuff. Someone needs to sort it out.


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## friendofdorothy (May 8, 2016)

editor said:


> I think you've got no chance on that, sadly. Even in Brixton there's no real late after hours pubs left in the week - that's why I'll probably end up in that boozer in bloody Clapham soon, and that will be awful.


Its strange that 24hr licencing laws have in effect killed off late night drinking in a lot of places.
Even the Florence which has a licence to 1am is often closed before then.


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## Winot (May 8, 2016)

Young people are getting more conservative.


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## Nanker Phelge (May 8, 2016)

SpamMisery said:


> There are lots of nice sessions ales under 4%. Not sold that widely though



Drank by women and southerners?


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## SpamMisery (May 8, 2016)

Probably. Why?


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 8, 2016)

Winot said:


> Young people are getting more conservative.



And less able to afford beer and to live in places like Herne Hill. Pub drinkers are definitely getting more middle aged though I agree (generalising there obviously).


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## editor (May 8, 2016)

Monkeygrinder's Organ said:


> And less able to afford beer and to live in places like Herne Hill. Pub drinkers are definitely getting more middle aged though I agree (generalising there obviously).


It was refreshing to see such a young crowd at OTC earlier this week but that was mainly due to the band that was playing.


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## ViolentPanda (May 9, 2016)

teuchter said:


> The increasing availability of decent ale in pubs over the past five years or so has been a bit of a revelation for me...I didn't know how nice beer can actually be. Unfortunately this has coincided with a rapidly declining ability to drink beer without disproportionate negative consequences in the following days.
> 
> Anyway, having got more into "proper" beer, the standard pub lagers that I used to drink happily enough before now taste sickly sweet and feeble and whatever the price I don't consider it money well spent. I'd rather have a half of grown-ups' beer than a pint of Carling and I'll measure value for money based on what it tastes like rather than anything else thanks.
> 
> Actually what I'd like to see is greater availability of nice ales that are under, say,  4%. Or even the return of small beer although maybe that never tasted of much.



If you see a pub selling Manns' Brown Ale, try it. It's only 2.7%, but is rich and flavourful in a way that other brown ales - especially what nowadays passes as Newky - isn't.


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## Manter (May 9, 2016)

Winot said:


> Young people are getting more conservative.


Not sure they are- now I spend more time with mid-late twenties lots are what would once have been radical, but just don't make a fuss about it. They go to each other's flats rather than being 'out' a lot too


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## ska invita (May 9, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> This is a -bar-in-herne-hill thread - I meant a local *Herne Hill* after hours drinking hole, you know somewhere I can literally crawl home from. Somewhere I can can see the usual suspects that I know, but don't see much since demise of so many of the illegal places around here (yes that was a while ago). There is only the 127 and its usually a bit lively for me and none of the old crowd go there.
> 
> Most late places in Brixton have the problem of crowds and the need for ID, even the Hootahob and the Effra social. And I rarely see anyone I know there (- except your good self).
> 
> This isn't just about beer, or music even, it's about the company.


What's 127?


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## trashpony (May 9, 2016)

Manter said:


> Not sure they are- now I spend more time with mid-late twenties lots are what would once have been radical, but just don't make a fuss about it. They go to each other's flats rather than being 'out' a lot too


I don't suppose they can afford to go out, what with not being able to buy a pint of women's beer for under a fiver ...


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## Winot (May 9, 2016)

Manter said:


> Not sure they are- now I spend more time with mid-late twenties lots are what would once have been radical, but just don't make a fuss about it. They go to each other's flats rather than being 'out' a lot too



I thought I read that young people are drinking less, taking fewer drugs etc.? Maybe they're just poorer though.


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## ska invita (May 9, 2016)

Winot said:


> I thought I read that young people are drinking less, taking fewer drugs etc.? Maybe they're just poorer though.


Offy prices are similar but I can only recently afford to go to the pub... Very expensive for most young people i expect


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## friendofdorothy (May 9, 2016)

ska invita said:


> What's 127?


 127 Dulwich road. Bar/club open till very late some nights (sorry don't know hours) usually has bouncers and velvet rope outside at weekend, who are very welcoming.  Has very loud music and attracts a mostly afro carribean crowd.


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## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2016)

SpamMisery said:


> Probably. Why?



Just checking your macho misogyny is still intact.


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## SpamMisery (May 9, 2016)

You've lost me but glad you think I'm macho


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## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2016)

SpamMisery said:


> You've lost me but glad you think I'm macho



No, I think you are a prick; a limp one, but that's beside the point.


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## teuchter (May 9, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> you are a prick; a limp one,



Some might say that in the context of your complaint you undermine yourself a little with your choice of insult.


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## Nanker Phelge (May 9, 2016)

teuchter said:


> Some might say that in the context of your complaint you undermine yourself a little with your choice of insult.



Some might say I chose it because of the context....


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## innit (May 9, 2016)

Winot said:


> I thought I read that young people are drinking less, taking fewer drugs etc.? Maybe they're just poorer though.


Lots of young people are teetotal (about a third supposedly). I don't know about drugs. Mr innit works with stacks of grads and lots and lots of them don't drink, which he finds a challenge in arranging team events that all will find appealing.


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## DJWrongspeed (May 9, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> Anyway, all this beer talk is rather of topic.
> 
> Back to OTC. How late is it open now a days?


did anyone goto the drum'n'bass night they'd advertised?  Did it happen?

I agree with the sentiments in this thread on drinks prices, who can afford to go and drink?


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## Manter (May 9, 2016)

Winot said:


> I thought I read that young people are drinking less, taking fewer drugs etc.? Maybe they're just poorer though.


Dunno. Difficult to answer without resorting to anecdata or giving too much information about others I guess. But it strikes me that drugs are more mainstream now- they are in no way rebellious. Ditto quite a lot of things that used to be considered alternative lifestyles. Stuff that used to be a two fingers to the establishment coexists quite happily with a 9-5 (er, 9) corporate job


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## friendofdorothy (May 10, 2016)

DJWrongspeed said:


> did anyone goto the drum'n'bass night they'd advertised?  Did it happen?
> 
> I agree with the sentiments in this thread on drinks prices, who can afford to go and drink?


no use asking me, my interest in music stopped in about the mid '80s.

and no I can't afford to go and  drink as much as I'd like to or as much as I used to.


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## editor (May 10, 2016)

friendofdorothy said:


> no use asking me, my interest in music stopped in about the mid '80s.
> 
> and no I can't afford to go and  drink as much as I'd like to or as much as I used to.


I think gins are pretty cheap in the Albert, btw, what with their 'double up' deals. Cheaper than OTC, for sure. Probably cheaper than anywhere in Herne Hill, so it might be worth the bus fare down!


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## Nanker Phelge (May 10, 2016)

I'm loathed to say it, but there is more to life than the cost of alcohol.....

Maybe.....


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## Monkeygrinder's Organ (May 10, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> I'm loathed to say it, but there is more to life than the cost of alcohol.....
> 
> Maybe.....



Right you. Get out!


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## editor (Jun 4, 2016)

Photo review here:

















In photos: Off The Cuff bar and live venue in Herne Hill, south London


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## teuchter (Jun 7, 2016)

OTC currently have a licence application in... representations in by 15th June.

http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/sites/default/files/application  - Redacted.pdf


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## teuchter (Jun 7, 2016)




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## Tolpuddle (Jun 8, 2016)

And the chances of them getting it? they are currently trying for some temporary licences

https://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/documents/s82030/ANNEX B ARCH 644.pdf


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## Tolpuddle (Jun 8, 2016)

Person objecting on behalf of the noise police is a tory councillor in Kent, as well as a noise enforcer, interesting combination.


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## equationgirl (Jun 9, 2016)

I'm glad they've dropped the membership stuff, I think that was doing them no favours.

Nice photos editor


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## Nanker Phelge (Jun 9, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> I'm glad they've dropped the membership stuff, I think that was doing them no favours.
> 
> Nice photos editor



Me too....but it was gold for this thread


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## equationgirl (Jun 9, 2016)

Nanker Phelge said:


> Me too....but it was gold for this thread


It was, and their reaction to us talking about it.


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## discobastard (Jun 9, 2016)

equationgirl said:


> It was, and their reaction to us talking about it.


And now we know they have the requisite emergency exit sign.


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## discobastard (Jun 9, 2016)

It's quite a telling example of a business model that isn't working evolving into something that does. Which I think is a scenario put forward back when it was the subject of robust debate. I.e. If it's genuinely a bad business model it will fail, though if they are paying attention they'll diversify into something that does work.

Also, we lose one music venue and gain another. All told in the context of what's happening in London that's not a bad result.


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## MrSki (Jun 10, 2016)

There are not hats in the photos either.


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## discobastard (Jun 10, 2016)

MrSki said:


> There are not hats in the photos either.


There are at *least* four hats in evidence on the night in question.	 Look closer...

But looking at the overall number of people that attended, I don't believe that's a statistically significant présence de chapeaux. 

As you were.


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## MrSki (Jun 10, 2016)

discobastard said:


> There are at *least* four hats in evidence on the night in question.	 Look closer...
> 
> But looking at the overall number of people that attended, I don't believe that's a statistically significant présence de chapeaux.
> 
> As you were.


Four hats? I have looked closely & can only see one. This could be a game!

Are we talking about the same three photos?


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## discobastard (Jun 11, 2016)

MrSki said:


> Four hats? I have looked closely & can only see one. This could be a game!
> 
> Are we talking about the same three photos?


I was looking at the Brixton Buzz piece on the link. A bit like Where's Wally [emoji1360]


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## CH1 (Jun 16, 2016)

Tolpuddle said:


> And the chances of them getting it? they are currently trying for some temporary licences
> https://moderngov.lambeth.gov.uk/documents/s82030/ANNEX B ARCH 644.pdf


I see the minutes are out for that.

Fans of Progress Labour will be heartened to know that Cllr Matthew Bennett was in the chair. Only two other councillors present - Paul McGlone and Fred Cowell (who he?).

One of the applications was withdraw, and the council issued a "counter notice" about the other (presumably = refused?)

The applicant's representative was minuted as saying this; "The premises licence holder’s representative, Mr Dadds, informed the Sub-Committee that he felt that he had not been able to make a closing submission, have an adequate right of reply of new evidence raised by the responsible authorities, address factual errors, legal issues and that he had been treated unfairly at the meeting."


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## snowy_again (Jun 16, 2016)

So, one TENS refused or multiple? I'm a bit confused as to whether this was for the permanent late license or temporary ones. 

Suspect they must be regretting their renegade few months.


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## CH1 (Jun 18, 2016)

snowy_again said:


> So, one TENS refused or multiple? I'm a bit confused as to whether this was for the permanent late license or temporary ones.
> 
> Suspect they must be regretting their renegade few months.


One was withdrawn and one refused as far as I can see.


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## se5 (Aug 3, 2016)

It looks like Off the Cuff has resubmitted their application to move their live music to the next arch along. Its due to be discussed by the licensing committee on Thursday - Agenda for Licensing Sub-Committee on Thursday 4 August 2016, 7.00 pm | Lambeth Council


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## DJWrongspeed (Aug 3, 2016)

Given the objections I doubt they'll get it. Interesting reading. Herne Hill just isn't Brixton


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## editor (Aug 3, 2016)

I hope they get it but the owner has picked up a formidable reputation for pissing people off.


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## se5 (Aug 4, 2016)

Looks like they got it



I guess the minutes when published will show the conditions


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## editor (Mar 18, 2020)

I don't think Off The Cuff is likely to survive. £35k is a lot of money to raise for a small bar, but good luck to them. 









						London’s Off The Cuff music venue launches £35,000 crowdfunder in face of ‘obscene rent increases’
					

The popular Off The Cuff music venue in Herne Hill has launched a crowdfunder with an ambitious target of £35,000 as they look to stay open in the face of rent rises and the devastating impact of t…



					www.brixtonbuzz.com


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## editor (Sep 16, 2022)

They've come back with an even more ambitious crowdfunder, looking for - wait for it - £1,200,000 with 5 days to go and just £600 pledged.

Much as I'd like the place to survive, I'm really not sure why people should be expected to donate so much to a private venture. 

edit: it doesn't help that the link won't display either


```
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/the-people-s-music-venue-own-off-the-cuff
```


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## DaphneM (Sep 16, 2022)

se5 said:


> Looks like they got it
> 
> 
> 
> I guess the minutes when published will show the conditions



looks like it didnt do them any good


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## ska invita (Sep 16, 2022)

editor said:


> They've come back with an even more ambitious crowdfunder, looking for - wait for it - £1,200,000 with 5 days to go and just £600 pledged.


wow


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## jimbarkanoodle (Sep 16, 2022)

editor said:


> They've come back with an even more ambitious crowdfunder, looking for - wait for it - £1,200,000 with 5 days to go and just £600 pledged.
> 
> Much as I'd like the place to survive, I'm really not sure why people should be expected to donate so much to a private venture.
> 
> ...


Maybe Boris might chip in, he enjoys a bit of a knees up.


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## snowy_again (Sep 18, 2022)

editor said:


> They've come back with an even more ambitious crowdfunder, looking for - wait for it - £1,200,000 with 5 days to go and just £600 pledged.
> 
> Much as I'd like the place to survive, I'm really not sure why people should be expected to donate so much to a private venture.
> 
> ...


They’re saying that they have £600k but as a pledge so not added to the fundraising totaliser.


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## Rushy (Nov 8, 2022)

editor said:


> They've come back with an even more ambitious crowdfunder, looking for - wait for it - £1,200,000 with 5 days to go and just £600 pledged.
> 
> Much as I'd like the place to survive, I'm really not sure why people should be expected to donate so much to a private venture.
> 
> ...


Anyone know what the outcome of this was? It read like they wanted support to buy the freehold of the theirs as well as the neighbours' buildings of which they would become landlords?
snowy_again ?


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## twistedAM (Nov 8, 2022)

Rushy said:


> Anyone know what the outcome of this was? It read like they wanted support to buy the freehold of the theirs as well as the neighbours' buildings of which they would become landlords?
> snowy_again ?


Looks like they have a new landlord. They posted this on Facebook last week:

Looking for an artists to draw a picture of an area outside at Off The Cuff. A vision of how we want the side ally-way to look. Rehearsal spaces & outside seating area with lighting. A vision to show the new landlords. Looking for them to start straight away. Contact
Hello@offthecuffbar.co.uk.


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## Rushy (Nov 8, 2022)

twistedAM said:


> Looks like they have a new landlord. They posted this on Facebook last week:
> 
> Looking for an artists to draw a picture of an area outside at Off The Cuff. A vision of how we want the side ally-way to look. Rehearsal spaces & outside seating area with lighting. A vision to show the new landlords. Looking for them to start straight away. Contact
> Hello@offthecuffbar.co.uk.


Well that happened quickly!


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